#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-26
<Azelphur> Is there anything open source for VNC that doesn't suck speed wise like VNC
<Azelphur> don't mean to sound trolly, but stuff like teamviewer is waaaaay faster. Wondering if there's anything like that but more open :)
<directhex> nothing fully open afaik
<Azelphur> :(
<directhex> different VNC apps may be more efficient, but ultimately it's using a protocol called "remote frame buffer" which does exactly what it sounds like
<Azelphur> yea
<ali1234> X11
<ali1234> although only if you use certain applications
<ali1234> anything kde or gtk and you might as well use vnc
<czajkowski> alolha
<harry_> Aloha
<JohnRobert> hi
<JohnRobert> I'm moving back to the uk next year
<JohnRobert> looking forward to proper LUGs again
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> 23:01:01 < AlanBell> I never managed to get onto ustream irc
<popey> I use irssi for that
<popey>  /connect c.ustream.tv
<popey> then join the channel for their show
<popey>  /join #at-home-with-jono8350
<daubers> Morning
<popey> hello
<Myrtti> infinitely amused by BF's possible Scottish ancestry today :-D
<Myrtti> goooooood mornin
<AlanBell> popey: it just disconnects me
<AlanBell> tells me it is a registered nick, doesn't let me pick another, disconnects me
<daubers> Bah, on Oneiric, if I'm uploading photos via shotwell, the model dialog stops me getting the unity dock
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> daubers: yay modal dialogs
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<DJones> Hi MooDoo, Hows your wife and the baby, all settled in?
<MooDoo> DJones: we're getting there, baby is still on australia time, but we're getting there, my first day back at work
<DJones> Heh, back to work for a rest then
<MooDoo> DJones: yeah :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, all! :)
<popey> AlanBell: you have to /nick user:pass
<popey> AlanBell: with a username/password that you have signed up to ustream with
<AlanBell> interesting, that is probably the bit I didn't understand
<popey> yeah, took me some googling to figure it out
<AlanBell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/hwe-cycle/+spec/hwe-p-live-secure-boot secure boot is going to be interesting for CDs
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: CONGRATULATIONS AND WELCOME BACK DUDE!!!!!!!!
<MooDoo> davmor2: cheers man :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I've been wanting to say that for days, you know you have a computer at home ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i do, but i've not used it that much over the last few weeks, and when i have been on you're not here :p
<davmor2> man anyone would think you'd just had a baby or something not turning up for weeks on end ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<MooDoo> davmor2: baby?   who's had a baby not me, i've had a pooping, crying screaming monster ;)
<czajkowski> davmor2: poke
<davmor2> MooDoo: I just hope she gets her moms looks if she takes after you my god she's in trouble ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: Morning how's life?
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh don't worry, both my kids don't look like me, so they are safe :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: nice :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: fantastic darling, how's you ?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: YOU'RE BACK!!!! *HUGS*
<MooDoo> czajkowski: wow thank you, i've missed you too :D xx
 * AlanBell wonders if MooDoo will be allowed out on 10th November
<MooDoo> AlanBell: /me nods.....
<czajkowski> MooDoo: course we need you during the rugby
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'm good thanks start my new role in canonical today which is odd cause we're seeing no change in process currently :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: loo cleaner?
<MooDoo> been promoted?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: No our team got split in 2 so I'm sole qa for the one team
<MooDoo> davmor2: well have fun :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: so thats the area to avoid eh
<davmor2> MooDoo: I just get to break stuff like normal :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: easy job :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: for me yeap
<MooDoo> czajkowski: how is your job going?
<czajkowski> liking it
<czajkowski> getting to do stuff which I've not done before and it's interesting
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ace :)
<daubers> Urgh, just had the technical lead of another company ask me how to do a port forward :(
<czajkowski> yeah tis cool. kinda weird doing stuf but learning new things
<MooDoo> czajkowski: did i read somewhere it's a 6 month contract?
<smittix> o/
<czajkowski> MooDoo: 4
<czajkowski> is daper still supported???
<popey> czajkowski: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<popey> "no"
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<czajkowski> I was sure of that
<czajkowski> but someone is installing it and having issue
<czajkowski> *issues
<Dave2> Solution: install something that's not 5 years old
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> I'm sure there is a valid reason...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just a quick heads up on a dubious sounding Inkscape project asking for donations... http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=28142280
<TheOpenSourcerer> $800 to develop a comprehensive PDF exporter with full CYMK separation. Core dev reckoned it would cost $30k
<czajkowski> reason for dapper useage: I want to run a piece of software which was compiled back in 2002, it is closed source so I cannot recompile.
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: That should still work. You might have to install some libraries from Dapper, but that's it
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: (libfoo2 instead of the currently-available libfoo3 or libfoo4, for example -- but those don't clash, so it shouldn't break uprades etc.)
 * MartijnVdS runs Python 2.5 like that
<czajkowski> XUL Runner has stopped working - lovely my last 3 drawings just vanished!!!!
<jpds> Paint uses XUL Runner?
<czajkowski> Pencil does
<directhex> never embed mozilla
<directhex> ever
<directhex> it always ends in tears
<bloodearnest> Monotoko: hey - just signed up to the Leeds Ubuntu party at north bar - is that your gig?
<popey> czajkowski: what app?
<czajkowski> PEncil
<AlanBell> pencil is open source!
<popey> http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Home.aspx that?
<AlanBell> I think the app requiring dapper is not pencil and czajkowski is talking about two different things
<popey> ah
<popey> yes, I was referring to 11:46:38 < czajkowski> reason for dapper useage: I want to run a piece of software which was compiled back in 2002, it is closed source so I cannot recompile.
<czajkowski> popey: he didnt say he's on the -ie list
<popey> oh, i thought it was you
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> I know better
<czajkowski> stick to current then ask for help
<czajkowski> :0
<czajkowski> :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: Liar :P
<chambo> Does anyone have any idea where Empathy puts its logs?
<chambo> Tried in .gnome2 and /var/logs but can't find anything
<chambo> I'm having trouble with MSN - it doesn't send my messages even though I am connected and people can send me messages
<daubers> popey: Sorry about that.... I seem to require more coffee than normal today
<jpds> chambo: .telepathy ?
<chambo> in ~ ?
<chambo> Don't know why everyone can't just put logs in .logs or something like that
<chambo> and config in .config
<chambo> Oh and make it so that when I upgrade my distribution, my existing dotfiles don't make gnome go completely bonkers
<chambo>  /rant
<chambo> I can't find .telepathy anywhere... :(
<directhex> telepathy is a frontend to empathy
<MartijnVdS> backend
<directhex> er, other way round
<directhex> and i don't know how much logging telepathy has by default
<MartijnVdS> it's probably in .config or .cache
<directhex> which msn backend are you using? there are three iirc?
<MartijnVdS> telepathy-butterfly and the one from Pidgin (libpurple), afaik?
<chambo> It'll be whatever is installed by default with ubuntu
<davmor2> chambo: there is .cache/empathy  .local/share/telepathy .missioncontrol (or word to that effect) .config/empathy
<chambo> Hmm nothing in any of those locations
<chambo> I'll try just running from a terminal
<davmor2> chambo: there is also a logging terminal in empathy itself under helpâdebug iirc
<chambo> davmor2, Thanks I'll have a look now
 * popey tickles TheOpenSourcerer 
<chambo> By the way does anyone use Synapse? https://launchpad.net/synapse-project
<chambo> I'm really impressed with it
 * TheOpenSourcerer wishes popey wouldn't. Especially my feet! 
<chambo> Probably not as complete as Gnome-do but has far less package dependencies
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wazzup popey ?
<popey> any news TheOpenSourcerer ?
<popey> :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> hah. It's not looking promising. Saw him in the pub on Friday eve...
<popey> uhoh
<popey> he's chucked them on ebay?
<JGJones> Would anyone know where the config files for Rapid Photo Downloader would be kept? Want to restore from a backup but haven't a clue where they would be kept?
<Adriannom> hi
<roro2020> heloo
<roro2020> Sorry I need your help to solve gcc problem in ubuntu 11.04
<roro2020> I'm using Matlab2011 wihch required gcc4.3.4  while my gcc is 4.5
<roro2020> How to solve it?
<Adriannom> best (easiest?) way of implementing roaming profiles?  maybe symlink /home to /local/home, sync the two, then mount the home dir on the server over the /home symlink?  will that even work without problem?
<roro2020> How to solve it?
<Adriannom> no idea i'm afraid :|
<Adriannom> does anyone here use them at all?
<MartijnVdS> at work we use a shared nfs mount in some places (but not all)
<MartijnVdS> NFS Mount + automounting
<Adriannom> MartijnVdS, so multiple clients updating the same home dir?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<Adriannom> ahh, i tried that and had loads of problems.  i was led to believe it was because ubuntu doesn't like two machines working live from the same home dir, something to do with config files...  guess that is wrong?
<MartijnVdS> Only if you do it at the same time
<MartijnVdS> don't log in twice  (unless in text mode)
<Adriannom> multiple machines will be logged in as the same user
<Adriannom> right...  that'd probably be a problem.  i am usually literally roaming around the house using the same stuff on different machines while i'm doing other things
<MartijnVdS> I'd jsut put the stuff that needs to be shared on a nas somewhere
<Adriannom> all my data is on a nas already, but i want the settings to be synced between all machines (and a change on one propagate to all), including other users (who are not tech savvy)
<Adriannom> reckon there is a solution?
<Adriannom> or do you reckon the idea with the symlink would work?
<Adriannom> i would tias, but it was damn hard to tell that anything was up at all until i lost data.
<Adriannom> (last time i tried this, that is)
<daubers> lo
<sammm1> HazRPG: I had such a sore arse last night. :(
<daubers> ....
<daubers> talk about walking into the wrong conversation
<sammm1> daubers: It's not what it sounds like.
<sammm1> daubers: Just a medical condition HazRPG and I have.
<AlanBell> sammm1: you might want to discuss it somewhere without googleable log files
<Adriannom> can you get multiple rdp sessions viewing the same desktop?  or alternatively can you get a wyse linux thin client to use vnc?
<shauno> hm.  blender just ate 52GB of swap before my machine ground to a halt.  I think I need a plan B.
<mgdm> heh
<mgdm> You have 52GB of swap? Wow :D
<Azelphur> Clearly you need more swap
<shauno> osx, so it just keeps creating swap files until it runs out of /
<shauno> (bit like swapd on linux, rather than using partitions)
<mgdm> Ah
<sammm1> AlanBell: That's why I added him on Facebook. :)
<ali1234> why did my irony meter just explode?
<Adriannom> why did my rhetorical meter just explode?
<sammm1> HazRPG: The Doctor has had over 1,000 years to perfect his interpersonal skills. xxxxxxx
<sammm1> ali1234, Adriannom: WTF are you two talkin' 'bout?
<sammm1> HazRPG: Amelia Pond is so fit for a ginger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
<AlanBell> sammm1: that is offtopic and not really appropriate
<AlanBell> sammm1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw
<sammm1> AlanBell: What's offtopic? Why did you send me that link?
<sammm1> AlanBell: Instead of directing my messages at specific people, should I be PMing them? Sorry, I'm new to IRC and haven't fully learnt the etiquette yet.
<AlanBell> because it is a nice way of telling you about one of the ways you went astray :)
<AlanBell> you can PM people (if they are cool with that), or use an appropriate channel, such as #ubuntu-offtopic or #defocus
<sammm1> AlanBell: This channel isn't particularly active ATM, so I don't see how my deviation from the Ubuntu topic will harm the flow of public chat 'n' dat.
<AlanBell> it isn't the level of activity that is relevant, we try and keep it family friendly and respectful at all times, and you were getting a bit close to the edge
<AlanBell> !coc
<lubotu3> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is a community etiquette document to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere, and can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ | For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct
<daubers> AlanBell: Good to see the "Happy hours" are taking off
<AlanBell> yeah, really pleased at the enthusiasm for other locations and a regular meet in London
<AlanBell> think another name is required for that though
<daubers> \o/ I'm quite looking forward to the farnborough one, as that'll be the first I can make
<sammm1> Are there any meets in Wales/ the west midlands? I might come and see you guys :D
<daubers> Might try and goto the one at the turf
<sammm1> Because I am in Swansea ATM
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/
<sammm1> AlanBell: I'm sorry, I will make a concious effort to keep my non-family-friendly chat to private-converations from now on.
<AlanBell> one over in Bristol on the list
<sammm1> Bristol is near me :D
<AlanBell> thanks sammm1 :)
<sammm1> What will we do there?
<AlanBell> drink tasty beer mostly
<sammm1> Hahaahahahhahaha
<sammm1> Sounds fun
<sammm1> But not many people like me :(
<jacobw> how is that?
<sammm1> I'm socially awkand and shy and stuff :(
<sammm1> What  date is the Bristol meet?
<sammm1> I do like beer :)
<sammm1> And I like contests of strength, gaming and workin' out :D
<AlanBell> Bristol doesn't have a date yet
<jacobw> most linux users are sammm1 ;)
<sammm1> AlanBell: What website page will have the information of the date?
<AlanBell> that one http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/
<sammm1> I use Windows mostly ATM. I'm a terrible person :(
<AlanBell> and on the mailing list
<sammm1> AlanBell: What's the place?
<sammm1> The place called
<AlanBell> look at the list :)
<sammm1> AlanBell: I am, but they're all random namjes but don't say where they are
<sammm1> AlanBell: Which one is the Bristol one?
<AlanBell> postcode starts with BS
<sammm1> AlanBell: Nova Scotia Hotel?
<sammm1> Everything has to be a massive puzzle challenge with you people.
<AlanBell> yup
<sammm1> Gawd
<AlanBell> wonder if that highlights Pendulum
<jacobw> puzzles are fun :P
<Pendulum> AlanBell: no, I don't have "Scotia" on highlight
<Pendulum> AlanBell: it's bad enough when people talk about Penny Arcade :-/
<shauno> you're a newfie?
<jacobw> i love the way the cheifs in spooks go on operations by themselves
<sammm1> Puzzles are frustrating, and Pendulum is an okay drum 'n' bass group.
<Pendulum> shauno: no, my cat's name is Scotia and she likes to IRC
<shauno> heh, that's .. a new one
<jacobw> why is a raven like a writing desk?
<Pendulum> shauno: she's 3 months old and laptop keyboards have great interest to her. She manages to PM people or quit me depending on her mood
<sammm1> Pendulum: Penny Arcade is for casual noobs
<sammm1> HazRPG: What a rubbish episode of Doctor Who......
<MartijnVdS> sammm1: you're a bit of a complainer, aren't you? :)
<shauno> you'd be too, if you were in swansea :p
<MartijnVdS> sammm1: j.p.c
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> shauno:
<sammm1> HazRPG: Maybe I've been too drunk to be interested in the latest episode, but maybe it's just rubbish?
<sammm1> MartijnVdS: Sorry, the internet is a conveniant place to ventilate my frustrations.
<sammm1> MartijnVdS: I've asked my friend if he would be interested in a physical confrontation later, but he probably won't be interested. :
<sammm1> :(
 * TheOpenSourcerer heads off to watch some TV. Catch you all tomorrow. :-)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<sammm1> Martinp23: Do you enjoy a good hand-2-hand physical confrontation 'n' dat? xx
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15060310
<jacobw> i think the LHC is destroying probable universes
<daubers> Whats a good UI design tool?
<AlanBell> pencil, ask czajkowski for help with it :)
<brobostigon> a pencil and paper.
<daubers> AlanBell: It doesn't work in oneiric :)
<AlanBell> oooh, why not?
<daubers> Not compatible with FF7
<czajkowski> aye
<czajkowski> daubers: download and install from desktop
<czajkowski> it crashes on windows though
<czajkowski> the plugin doesn't work on anything after FF3
<daubers> czajkowski: I did.....
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> odd
<daubers> Ah, you mean the standalone thing not the extension
<daubers> (didn't see that the first time)
<daubers> Still no work... "Could not find compatible GRE between version 1.9.1 and 1.9.2.*."
<czajkowski> daubers: there is also a thingy call balisque or soemthing
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> free 7 day trial
<daubers> Might just install glade and jsut throw a few experiments together
<AlanBell> balsamiq
<czajkowski> yup that
<AlanBell> posh vinegar
<daubers> Quite nice on salad
 * daubers installs glade
<SuprEngr> has anyone else using Evolution for mail noticed: since G= went 'live'... the gmail accounrt attached can only be used  via gmail web & evoloution = password fail?
<SuprEngr> *g+
<KrimZon> I use my Gmail via IMAP with Thunderbird
<SuprEngr> yeh - that still works fine... web only not evoloution access.
<popey> Evening all!
<SuprEngr> eveninks popey
 * SuprEngr wonders how many of suggestions from popey 
<daubers> o/ popey
<SuprEngr> popey's mail get taken up in 12.04
<SuprEngr> daubers, stop inturrupting my broken sentence ;D
<daubers> SuprEngr: Stop talking
<daubers> SuprEngr: Like
<daubers> SuprEngr: Bill Shatner
 * SuprEngr sulks
<SuprEngr> [beam me up]
<daubers> Hmmm.... glade has some different controls since I last used it
<daubers> also, now I broked it
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Bacon And Coffee Powered World Record - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/26/bacon-and-coffee-powered-world-record/
<daubers> isn't zentyal what ebox was?
<shauno> pretty much
<popey> ooo Bill shatner you say?
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU2ftCitvyQ
<popey> that shut everyone up âº
<SuprEngr> ... 'cept me! why the rubber duck *is* he climbing that mounting? jump -shatner -jump!
<SuprEngr> (mounting was his pronunciation -not mine. I assume he's climbing a mountain -jump , bill, jump
<daubers> Why? Why do people build things like ebox in perl?
<dwatkins> Just to make you ask, daubers.
<SuprEngr> back to my earlier comment re Evolution & Gmail - bug report time me wonders? or just leave it now Thunderbird is default.
<daubers> SuprEngr: I'd bug report it, if it's not already. Evolution will still be available, just not default
<SuprEngr> bug report it is
<shauno> you haven't turned 2fa on for your google account, have you ?
 * daubers goes on a rant
<SuprEngr> shauno - no change mage to google a/c
<SuprEngr> *made
<ikonia> early to bed for #ubuntu-uk tonight it seems
<SuprEngr> "Time for bed", said Zebbedee
<ikonia> it would appear that way
 * SuprEngr goes to zzzz land & dreams of podcasts yet to be heard ;)
<sammm1> ikonia: Haha you're funny. Are you going to Bristol? xxx
<directhex> i'm too awake to sleep. far too early for me
<ikonia> directhex: me too
<directhex> i am also in the middle of nowhere
<directhex> which is unhelpful
<ikonia> directhex: accommadation close to office ?
<directhex> ikonia, that was the theory. but they already sold my reservation, so shipped me to a golf course on the A14
<ikonia> I trust standard rage procedure was deployed at said hotel vendor
 * AlanBell recalls directhex's standard hotel rage procedure
<The_Fred> Im curiours, whats is directhex's s.h.r.p ?
 * The_Fred cant spell today
#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-27
<sammm1> What do UK Ubuntu meetings involve?
<sammm1> Fit girls?#
<sammm1> Fit young teen tight girls?
<sammm1> And beer?
<shauno> I think I could only meet that with a single word:  beards.
<sammm1> shauno: Birds?
<shauno> my accent isn't that bad
<sammm1> shauno: Sureeeeeeeeeee
<ikonia> sammm1: you know that's not acceptable in this channel
<sammm1> ikonia: whatever
<ikonia> sammm1: thanks,
<ikonia> directhex: still up ?
<sammm1> ikonia: You're welcum
<sammm1> ikonia: Just you wait 'til I see you in Bristol.
<ikonia> what are you talking about now ?
<sammm1> ikonia: You and me
<ikonia> what ???
<sammm1> ikonia: Yeah
<ikonia> I have no idea what you're talking about
<sammm1> ikonia: You know...
<ikonia> I genuinly don't
<sammm1> ikonia: :) xxx
<ikonia> I don't understand, sorry.
<sammm1> ikonia: Scrambled eggs, grated cheese, gallon of milk a day, squats and mushrooms. :)
<ikonia> I have no idea what your talking about
<hamitron> sammm1, I'm all for bending rules... but there is a line beyond that line, and I think you cross the one after that ;)
<sammm1> hamitron: naaaaaa
<AlanBell> morning all
 * AlanBell observes a lot of idiocy in the scrollback
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
<AlanBell> everyone see my pet dragon? https://plus.google.com/u/0/109175303602657131317/posts/7XCemQJ1LLu
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> danfish: 10 - 10 italy v usa
<czajkowski> spoke too soon pasta got a try
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers may have been on another rant again
<czajkowski> I changed channels to carry on
<czajkowski> ;)
<daubers> I do often wonder why people think that hardware still has the same potential as that from the 90's
<AlanBell> the myth of the idle GUI draining all the server resources thing?
<TheOpenSourcerer> GUIs are for wimps ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> He says from a nice GUI
<Myrtti> oh man. Would anyone volunteer to upgrade an ancient phpBB2 (which is on the last available version) to phpBB3 for me and check why the non-ascii characters are broken? I'm not up to this at this hour without coffee and some brain rebooting
<daubers> AlanBell: That and that a "server" has to be a big powerful thing that is hugely secure/efficient/powerful :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> My home server is small and low power. But is quite secure (I hope) and doesn't have a GUI.
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: But you have some technical clue!
<TheOpenSourcerer> "some" is correct.
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Zentyal GUI (web based) is pretty good actually.
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Now think about putting something like that into a customer who wuold look at a command line and scream
<MooDoo> .away
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> I am easy either way on the subject of GUIs, just a lot of people dislike them for invalid reasons
<AlanBell> daubers: we put it in their office with no screen and they point a web browser at it
<TheOpenSourcerer> That isn't actually the problem. We all know you can do a good deal of stuff faster and easier via a cli and it is a hell of a lot easier to say "type xyz" than to have to describe clicking various buttons and navigating through screens of pretty boxes.
<daubers> If it was something going into a DC i wouldn't put a GUI on it. If it was a small home/office server I'd put a gui on it
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's an education thing.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not a GUI is better/easier thing.
<danfish> czajkowski: not been watching - school run :/
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Now you're away on holiday or somesuch and the customer urgently needs the webserver restarted, he's terrified of the CLI and has little clue but has to do this now. For the low overhead of the gui, that makes his job 10000* easier as it provides him with visual clues what to do
<danfish> oops, wrong channel
<danfish> morning btw
<TheOpenSourcerer> And today "Web" <> inferior GUI to a GTK or QT type app.
<AlanBell> that is certainly true now
<AlanBell> hi MooDoo and danfish
<TheOpenSourcerer> daubers "urgently needs the webserver restarted". It is far quicker to type "sudo service apache restart" than to load a gui and click several buttons surely?
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: You get all kinds of fun issues with web based GUI's that will require you to go behind to fix stuff that is a lot easier to deal with in a native application
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: you've missed the point. Little man in the office may not know about the cli. He can't get hold of anyone technical support. He has to do it now and on his own.
<daubers> You're ignoring the target audience to suite your own preference
<AlanBell> urgently needs the web server restarted would normally be "press the button on the front, wait a minute, press it again"
<AlanBell> if it doesn't go off, hold the button down until it does, then press it again
<daubers> AlanBell: And you've just pulled the connectivity from all of your client machines who where using the shared storage on that box too, losing a couple of hours of important work
<TheOpenSourcerer> If someone "urgently needs the web server restarted" then they should bloody well know how to type 4 words, or they should *not* be running a web server IMHO
<AlanBell> daubers: yeah, but generally it is "the vtiger server" or "the openERP server" not something doing multiple services
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Seriously, go and wander into some small offices (who don't do technical things, and some that do sadly) and look at their needs and the technical capability in the company
<AlanBell> daubers: we do that all the time :)
<daubers> AlanBell: Those aren't servers. They're appliances.
<AlanBell> yes!
<danfish> hmmm - at the end of the day isn't it about catering for multiple levels of expertise and customer choice?
<danfish> whilst not diluting developed effort?
<danfish> s/developed/developer
<daubers> danfish: NO! It's giving people something that will do what they want in the easiest possible manner! Otherwise you end up over complicating things until they're unuseable by the least technical audience
<TheOpenSourcerer> daubers: There is a *massive* eco system out there supporting those small offices that are running MS SBS. The "users" can't use/understand the MS SBS GUI any more or less than they could type a few commands.
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Yes, but they would e more familiar with a GUI type environment and hence easier to guide without scaring the hell out of them.
<daubers> All of this over about Â£15 of ram and <Â£5 worth of HDD space!
<TheOpenSourcerer> It takes far longer and is less easy to write down how to restart a web server using a GUI than it is a command line
<daubers> Open the server management tool, click the services button, click "restart"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - time for my morning ablutions.
<daubers> Otherwise you're GUI is badly designed
<daubers> s/you're/your
<Laney> MartijnVdS: I think I got a reproducer
<Laney> MartijnVdS: sudo kill -s HUP `pidof gconfd-2`
<popey> morning all
<Laney> doesn't happen every time, but try a few and it does in my experience
<bigcalm> Morning popey
<Laney> greetings
<bigcalm> et al
<IdleOne> Hey!
<bigcalm> AlanBell: love the dragon, as does Hayley. What stock did you print yours on?
<AlanBell> just 90gsm copier paper
<AlanBell> 80gsm even
<bigcalm> Oh, fair enough
<bigcalm> Looked slightly glossy in the vid
<AlanBell> laser printed
<bigcalm> As was mine. Maybe it'll look different once I've made it
<AlanBell> everyone should see my dragon -> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109175303602657131317/posts/7XCemQJ1LLu
 * popey edits the url
<dogmatic69> o/
<dogmatic69> morning
<JamesTait> Morning all!
<popey> HULLO!
 * daubers has now had coffee and calmed down a bit
<JGJones> Is there an extension for LibreOffice to sync/upload/download/whateverelse to Google Docs?
<oimon> AlanBell: is the dragon supposed to print on a A3 or A4? the A4 needs scaling if so
<bigcalm> Printed ok on A4 for me
<oimon> hmm
<s-fox> Hello.
<MooDoo> s-fox: hello
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo  :)
<s-fox> How are you?
<MooDoo> s-fox: i'm very well thank you :)
<s-fox> Thats good
<MooDoo> what about you?
<s-fox> I am good thank you MooDoo , sorting out a new job :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: yeah i've seen your tweets, hows it going?
<s-fox> Not bad, had a couple of promising emails back
<MooDoo> s-fox: what you goig for?
<s-fox> Mainly software engineer roles
<MooDoo> cool
<s-fox> I really need a new job, I am going to go insane here. lol
<MooDoo> s-fox: good luck :)
<s-fox> Thank you MooDoo
<MooDoo> you're most welcome x
<Hippychick> s-fox, where abouts are you based? seen quite a few development jobs in the kent area
<s-fox> Hippychick,  Midlands, google says 3 hours drive
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<Hippychick> :(
<Hippychick> not sure whats in the midlands really
<Hippychick> fe
<brobostigon> the cotswolds.
<s-fox> I wouldn't worry Hippychick . Most of the jobs I have applied for are back in usa
<s-fox> lol
<MooDoo> oooo usa
<MooDoo> i wanna go
<oimon> this game looks interesting. anyone able to get it working under wine?
<oimon> http://cardboardcomputer.com/games/ruins/
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<Adriannom> morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: How do mucka how's the family?
<MooDoo> davmor2: crackin thanks, wifey could do with 728 hours more sleep, but we're ok
<davmor2> MooDoo: Can you say that again but add Gromit after the crackin :D
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, morning chuck
 * czajkowski tickles davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: How many times I'm not ticklish
<bigcalm> Are you allergic to anything?
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski just likes to touch you, thought you'd worked that out already....
<brobostigon> tomboy 1.8.0, lets see whats changed, i quite like tomboy.
<brobostigon> !info tomboy oneiric
<lubotu3> 'oneiric' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
<brobostigon> !info tomboy
<lubotu3> tomboy (source: tomboy): desktop note taking program using Wiki style links. In component main, is optional. Version 1.6.0-0ubuntu3 (natty), package size 490 kB, installed size 2744 kB
<Laney> not much
<brobostigon> ok.
 * daubers screams and throws books at stupid computers
<brobostigon> Laney: i agree, i cant see much difference.
<oimon> daubers: an ebook?
<Laney> brobostigon: http://git.gnome.org/browse/tomboy/tree/NEWS
<Laney> mostly fixes
<brobostigon> thank you.
<oimon> i just melted a plug. i don't think it was the right one to use
<zleap> some good ideas on the list for 12.04
<MartijnVdS> Is "crash less" on it?
<MartijnVdS> Do we have a name for 11.04 yet?
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> 12.04
<oimon> they could really screw your brain up and use a Pterosaur
<bigcalm> Pneumatic Pterodactyl
<TheOpenSourcerer> Seen the new Ubuntu "App Developer Portal" announcement? http://developer.ubuntu.com/
<MartijnVdS> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-p -- I see only 3 "real" ideas
<MartijnVdS> and a bunch of Linaro garbage
<oimon> i don't really like oneiric as a word, so in my mind i just think oscillating ocelot
<oimon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames#A12.04
<zleap> R should be Rampant Rabbit
<AlanBell> from about tomorrow in oneiric you will be able to hear how it should be pronounced by running: spd-say "oneiric ocelot" at a terminal
<oimon> google are the worst for codenames. i can never remember which is which
<zleap> why at a terminal
<oimon> alt-f2 if you prefer
<zleap> ctrl-alt-T
<AlanBell> run it however you like, my point being it is a command, not something in the menus
<AlanBell> or in the uncharted depths of the unity dash
 * TheOpenSourcerer waits for Apple to come after Canonical regarding their use of "App"
<zleap> ok
<TheOpenSourcerer> It would be good PR whatever happens ;-)
<brobostigon> https://launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa   anyone know why the last build was three weeks ago, and since then, 2 weeks ago, chromium 16 has been released.?
<bigcalm> Is it wrong that I've never used Diaspora?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: no
<bigcalm> I might have given it a go if the name was easier to remember/spell
<oimon> it sounds like a medicine for diarhoea
<gord> i'v used it, its okay, will be nice when they have a linux version
<gord> or maybe i am thinking of something else, googling isn't helping
<bigcalm> Heh
<gord> http://www.desura.com is what i am thinking of -_-
<AlanBell> diaspora is the distributed social network thing
<AlanBell> combining the wide userbase of identi.ca and the rich functionality of twitter
<Laney> identica got snazzier recently
<AlanBell> yeah, I heard. Both users got kicked out for 3 days to do the upgrade or something
<popey> COMEDY GOLD!
 * AlanBell will try harder
<bigcalm> :D
<czajkowski> http://blog.whatsapp.com/index.php/2011/09/one-million/ great app
<MartijnVdS> Whatsapp uses an unnecrypted XMPP connection
 * MartijnVdS prefers Google Talk because of that :)
<Adriannom> trying to setup one X session for each user on the entire network.  got a wyse s50 which connects with ica, rdp, ssh, tec or xdmcp.  rdp seems to do what i want so i setup xrdp.  if i rdp in off my ubuntu machine it spawns a new session for the user, and if i login on another client as well it connects to the same session.  problem is when i connect with the wyse thin client it spawns a new session every time, leaving
<Adriannom>  any other sessions opened hanging in the background.  any ideas what could be causing the problem, or how i could tackle my goals in different ways?
<MartijnVdS> (also, whatsapp stops working after ~ 2 hours for me)
<directhex> cool kids run their own Prosody install for xmpp!
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: RDP always spawns a new session
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: if you want to reattach to a running session you need something like a vnc client
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: and the built-in vnc server ("vino")
<Adriannom> MartijnVdS, if it always spawns a new session how can i connect to the same session multiple times by default?
<Adriannom> btw i think xrdp uses vnc
<Adriannom> vnc also can't login for a user right?
<Adriannom> i.e. if i boot the server and don't login, i can't vnc to it
<popey> czajkowski: you'll like iOS5 :D
<popey> imessage âº
<Adriannom> unless you can think of a way of making it work?
<Adriannom> basically multiple users need to use their x session from wherever they are on the network at any time, including simultaneously
<czajkowski> popey: why.........
<popey> czajkowski: oh, you're on android aren't you?
<popey> forgot, thought you had an iphone
 * czajkowski wonders has popey had enough coffee today
<oimon> how can i get rid of a burnt electrical smell from my office using items i might find at work?
<popey> a peg?
<popey> bulldog clip?
<czajkowski> open a window
 * czajkowski hands popey a coffee
<DJones> oimon: Buy a curry for lunch, it might not get rid of it, but will mask it
<oimon> :)
<oimon> i seem to have created the most evil sickening smell known to man
<DJones> Ah, you've already eaten the curry then :)
<davmor2> oimon: open the window
<popey>  \o/
<popey>  (.).oO( PARP! )
<popey>  | |
<oimon> the windows are wide open and i'm in my coat
<popey>  /31
<czajkowski> it's warm out today
<popey> BAH!
 * czajkowski hands popey a large coffeee
<oimon> i think some of the burning electrical juice went on the carpet :(
<czajkowski> you're like me on a bad day
 * popey has Pepsi Max
<MartijnVdS> poor Max
<oimon> does pepsi max still exist?
<popey> yes, although this one wont for long
<oimon> remember the coke vs pepsi wars?
 * popey wonders if anyone here remembers the "12939 drink"
 * Hippychick is sitting in her office with the windows shut and her coat on
<Hippychick> and im still shivering!!
<popey> http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0003126
<popey> ^^ the 12939 drink appeared in that game
<MartijnVdS> Hippychick: sounds like a fever
<popey> http://mercenarysite.free.fr/m1d022.gif
<MartijnVdS> Hippychick: or your office is a refrigerator
<czajkowski> I refuse to wear socks yet
<czajkowski> and not wearing a coat
<czajkowski> did buy a small brolly for bag though
<MooDoo> i'm still in shorts
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah but your insane so your opinion doesn't count
<Hippychick> ive been wearing my coat in the office for the past month
<MooDoo> davmor2: thanks for that :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Hey dude I'm here for you ;)
<oimon> there was supposed to be a heatwave this week
<oimon> yestreday it tipped down with rain, and today is brass monkey
<davmor2> oimon: bright sunny and hot here in wolverhampton
<oimon> booo
<davmor2> oimon: it's not our fault you live in the wrong part of the country :P
<Adriannom> is there an easy way to test an xdmcp server, i mean is there a client available like vncviewer?
<oimon> every dog has his day
<oimon> today is wolverhamptons..
<Adriannom> nevermind, got it
<danfish> oimon: hot and sunny in Wolverhampton means kids have set fire to the industrial estate again ;)
<clare10billion> Hello I can't see detect  wireless access point with my dell mini 9 which is running the latest version of ubuntu. I can however both and detect and joint wirelessly to actual modems/routers. Any ideas what is wrong? Or what I can try to fix it?
<gord> clare10billion, yeah hold on, i used to have one of these
<davmor2> clare10billion: Have you done a fresh install of Ubuntu?
<gord> clare10billion, you need to "sudo apt-get install bcmwl-kernel-source" then restart
<gord> that should enable the wifi chipset
<clare10billion> yes brand new install
<clare10billion> 11.04
<clare10billion> works fine with 3 different routers
<clare10billion> cant even see access points
<clare10billion> really?
<davmor2> clare10billion: So connect via the wired connection and then do gords "sudo apt-get install bcmwl-kernel-source" that will install the wireless driver that your hardware needs to connect
<clare10billion> okay will give it a shot....
<davmor2> clare10billion: once that is done reboot and then you chould have wireless again
<oimon> http://www.dir.qmul.ac.uk/cn%3DI%20Dickson%2Cou%3DBlizard%20Institute%2Co%3DQueen%20Mary
<oimon> sorry wrong window
<clare10billion> no apparently I already have the newest version.
<clare10billion> The weird thing is that It can connect to actual modem routers fine but can't even detect the wireless access points
<clare10billion> It's like its not even trying
<davmor2> clare10billion: Daft question but the wireless is switched on right?
<clare10billion> yes I checked
<clare10billion> I keep on thinking I am going mad
<clare10billion> so I went to the room where the router lives
<clare10billion> connects on automatically
<clare10billion> also Im currently connected to the wireless access point in question with a different computer so its working fine as well
<gord> oh so the wifi works sometimes but not with the ap's?
<clare10billion> yes exactly
<davmor2> gord: over to you dude
<clare10billion> really frustrating because apart from the wireless annoyance I'm really enjoying my new 2nd hand mini and using abuntu again after a good time away
<clare10billion> much slicker than when I left
<gord> ah no, my experience with the dell mini's stops at connecting to a single wifi, never tried with multiple AP's
<clare10billion> ach well im sure I'll find a solution somewhere
<dogmatic69> anyone here ever used a vinyl cutter/plotter on ubuntu? i got one of these and looking for direction in getting it working http://tinyurl.com/3j7u7kh
<dogmatic69> does not seem like many people got them working before :/
<Adriannom> is there any thin client or remote connection protocol that allows you to switch users on the remote machine?
<dogmatic69> Adriannom: ssh?
<Adriannom> graphical
<oimon> i'm not sure switching users is a concept when speaking about about remote connections
<oimon> because you can have multiple sessions when using remote sessions
<Adriannom> oimon, just trying to connect a thin client to a vm so that people can switch users so that i don't lose my opened stuff if someone else borrows it, for instance
<popey> dogmatic69: what ports does it have?
<dogmatic69> popey: usb
<dogmatic69> also com iirc
<popey> do you know what protocols it supports?
<dogmatic69> was reading about using a generic printer + raw output setting might work
<popey> i know some HP plotters have a language which is pretty easy to understand
<popey> I wrote some many years back
<dogmatic69> from what i have read on the internet its standard plotter stuff, not gcode
<popey> right
<oimon> Adriannom: i use freenx for what you are describing
<oimon> i can suspend remote sessions etc
<Adriannom> googling
<dogmatic69> popey:  HP/GL or something like that
<oimon> Adriannom: also the performance is amazing
<Adriannom> sounds interesting
<Adriannom> oimon, need a freenx client?
<oimon> yes
<Adriannom> cause my thin client doesn't have one :(
<Adriannom> it's a wyse s50
<Adriannom> only supports ica, rdp, ssh, tec, xdmcp, vnc, and possibly some others with addons
<Adriannom> damn
<popey> thats it dogmatic69
<popey> HP/GL is easy to code
<dogmatic69> so if it is that, drivers should be available?
<popey> driver?
<dogmatic69> what ever it needs to work on ubuntu
<popey> throw HPGL code at the serial port, watch it fly :D
<dogmatic69> svg -> hpgl converter
<dogmatic69> nice
<popey> that would be nice
<popey> tux plot?
<popey> http://www.securetech-ns.ca/camm-linux.html
<dogmatic69> ive seen this tux plot all over. ill install that tonight and see what it does
 * dogmatic69 hopes to plug it in and print :)
<popey> :D
<dogmatic69> installing tuxplot now at work, holly cow that is some dependency list...
<daubers> urgh, it's only 20 past 1 and it already feels like thursday
<dogmatic69> daubers: when i woke up and saw it was tuesday, i thought wtf
<oimon> does anyone know how i can go about getting a domain that is due to expire?
<oimon> there seem to be services that do it for you at a price
<popey> indeed there are
<oimon> do domains tend to get snapped up at 00:01 or something
<popey> yes, if they're popular
<oimon> i have my eye on one that is suspended currently and may pop up for general availability
<popey> there's an industry of people running servers which pounce at 00:00.00001
<oimon> ugh
 * oimon wonders how he can pounce
<davmor2> czajkowski: thanks for cheap flights hahahaha
<popey> they even worry about the latency to dns servers
<popey> so try to get servers in the same DC to beat other people to the punch
<oimon> this all sounds rather sucky for the man in the street
<popey> ya
 * Hippychick wonders which domaint oimon wants so she can buy it and sell it to him at a premium
<Hippychick> :P
<oimon> sjdfoisjfoisej fios jefoisesfs.f com
<popey> i tried to get a domain when i first started my company, but unfortunately some goit got it the day after I checked if it was available
<popey> i suspect foul play
<popey> then he sold it on sedo
<oimon> hmm
<oimon> i'm seeing conflicting information regarding the length of time before it's available generally
<dogmatic69> oimon: i think you can go on a waiting list somewhere
<popey> oooo kindle tablet announcement next week
<dogmatic69> and the registrar normally has a 30 grace period
<oimon> dogmatic69: yeah, that's passed, now it's suspended stage
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> you could just tell us the domain .. :)
<dogmatic69> well can all help
<popey> heh
<oimon> dogfishbanana.com
<popey> lies
<oimon> it's not of any commercial interest but it's a cute domain name i want
<oimon> i think it's more because i can't get it that i want it
<popey> i wanted po.pe
<oimon> did that bloke in a hat and dress get it?
<dogmatic69> seems available
<popey> heh
<popey> nah, has to be 3 chars long
<dogmatic69> http://pi.pe/
<popey> bah!
<dogmatic69> according to that, not
 * popey rummages
 * dogmatic69 finds .pe registrar 
<oimon> the race is on
<oimon> http://whois.domaintools.com/po.pe
<dogmatic69> :/
<popey> yeah
<dogmatic69> his name is not even popey
<popey> http://two.vg/list.html?ext=pe&mode=
<MartijnVdS> popey: mo.pe is already in use
<dogmatic69> that is a cool list, all the registrars should have that
<oimon> what does Status: Locked mean?
<oimon> on a domain that hasn't expired yet
<popey> ou.st is available
<AlanBell> means it can't be transferred easily
<davmor2> popey: how about going for "therealpo.pe" instead?
<popey> too long
<davmor2> popey: impo.pe?
<dogmatic69> popey: mail the guy and offer him Â£50
<oimon> isn't there a .uk domain coming?
<Daviey> oimon: there has been a .uk TLD since time began.
<dogmatic69> oimon: was that not already done?
<dogmatic69> oimon: wikipedia says "As of August 2011, it is the fourth most popular top-level domain worldwide"
<dogmatic69> .uk ^
<oimon> obviously TLD so that co.uk and org.uk can exist, but are the option to get website.uk coming?
<Daviey> oimon: lobby nominet.
<oimon> it's not really a big deal for me
<dogmatic69> oimon: .me.uk is new i think
<oimon> i don't find danica patrick very attractive
<oimon> she is on every godaddy page ever
<dogmatic69> most the images of her on google looks like a man in a dress
<oimon> wow there's a big difference between some pics and the ridiculously airbrushed godaddy one.
<oimon> there's a tube advert with her on it at bethnal green tube, and her legs don't meet at the top..photoshop fail
<dogmatic69> lol
 * bigcalm swears at VM
<MartijnVdS> (Illegal copy of VMWare? VMWarez!)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Virgin Media more realistically
<bigcalm> Picked up a wireless kb and mouse from Lidl today for a penny under 20 quid. Very nice feel and pretty much silent (except for the space). This should please Hayley
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: till the batteries are flat
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I swear at virtual machines more ;)
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: I have rechargeables and tend to change them 3+ months apart
<oimon> i found a way to stop wireless keyboard batteries going flat...attach a wire to the usb port of the pc
<bigcalm> `.`
<davmor2> oimon: You Muppet
<oimon> :D
<oimon> at your service
<davmor2> oimon: http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot&play=true
<bigcalm> GAH!
<davmor2> bigcalm: What you done now?
<bigcalm> Who do I have to sacrifice to appease the VM gods?
<oimon> your cable for ADSL
<MartijnVdS> a virgin chicken
<bigcalm> I get 30mb with cable, I'd get 5mb with ADSL
<oimon> managed to remove the bad smell from my room by removing a carpet that had electrical plug juice leaked onto it :D
<gord> do you really need 30mb though?
<gord> i'd rather have a slower, stable connection than a faster one that falls over all day
<bigcalm> I do. When VM works, it work very well indeed. When it stops, it's a pita
<bigcalm> Of course it only happens during day time when most people are meant to be at work away from home. Buggers like me who work from home annoy the tech support lines
<oimon> bigcalm: how do you find WFH?
<davmor2> bigcalm: Let me guess it's an issue with High demand in the area?
<davmor2> oimon: great
<oimon> not sure if i would go a bit mad
<bigcalm> davmor2: I haven't phoned them yet today. And it's never due to high demand. They are fairly straightforward in their responses
 * davmor2 tic don't know what you mean tic
<bigcalm> oimon: hard work. I used to work in an office. I really miss the human interaction
<oimon> canonical have an opening that would suit me just right, but its a WFH
<davmor2> bigcalm: you mean you get sensible people
<bigcalm> Humm?
<davmor2> bigcalm: whenever I ring I spend 10 minutes explaining that the issue is there end and not mine,  then they finally look and say oh yeah
<bigcalm> davmor2: ah, I see
<bigcalm> Maybe I get lucky or say the right things
<bigcalm> davmor2: we're both connected to the 1st level of wolv. How often do you get connection problems?
<davmor2> bigcalm: Oh there up and down like yoyo's.  I get slow down at  lunch and when the kids get home morning is normally fine
<bigcalm> Have you forked out for the Tivo option?
<bigcalm> I keep pondering it now and then
<davmor2> bigcalm: Have I boat
<bigcalm> I don't know, do you have a boat?
<davmor2> bigcalm: That gets a 10gig service and they can't keep the service they have up
<bigcalm> Ah. Yeah, the 100mb service sounds nice but I doubt that it'd be any more reliable
<davmor2> bigcalm: on the 30meg do you still get restricted to 5meg if you hit your download limit on the unlimited service ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: no idea, I don't shift a lot of data about
<MooDoo> davmor2: is the king of pr0n so he shifts a lot of daya
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> Data porn? That's just wrong
<bigcalm> Moving swiftly along
<davmor2> MooDoo: Have you seen Ryzom 2.1 gig of download then there is the constant bzr updates then there is czajkowski posting funny songs on youtube and it's rude not to take a look
<oimon> bigcalm: good to hear the flip side of WFH..everyone i ask says its amazing..but they are ones who do it already
<MooDoo> davmor2: damn that czajkowski ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Indeed!
<bigcalm> oimon: I've just started my 3rd year of working from home. Still takes a lot of will power to concentrate
<bigcalm> Being on IRC doesn't help ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: as lovely as she is, she's posts to many awesome distracting things lol ;)
<oimon> bigcalm: i also have a small child who i would hear downstairs going "DADA!"
<bigcalm> I could do with having a cat for company
<davmor2> bigcalm: I found the dedicated office helps.  Once I'm in there I'm at work do not disturb.
<MooDoo> davmor2: now we have 2 kids, we're extending and i get a dedicated office :D
<oimon> i have my own office at work but go for a wander every hour or so to see people
<bigcalm> I have the small bedroom as my office. I'm at work in here
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's the one :)
<davmor2> by the way bigcalm we are trying to sort out a workshare at the lighthouse in wolvo would you be interested in turning up?
<bigcalm> What would that involve?
<davmor2> bigcalm: THe lighthouse have basic office for the public, they make their wireless available for us and we work from there for the day,  means you get out your house/flat once a month
<davmor2> and see people :)
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> If it's not a every day thing, then yes. I think I would
<popey> i discovered recently that if you're in the FBS you can use regus offices
<bigcalm> davmor2: What sort of cost?
<davmor2> bigcalm: we all have too many meetings to attend to make it a regular thing
<davmor2> bigcalm: I think we just use there facilities,  ie cafe for food etc,  but if you're interested once we get all the details I'll let you know
<bigcalm> davmor2: very interested
<bigcalm> davmor2: trying to work out the travel time from TF10 now
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's about a minutes walk from the train station if that helps
<bigcalm> Oh, get the train instead
<bigcalm> Hunn
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> There is a direct train from Telford Central to Wolv
<bigcalm> 34 mins by car
<davmor2> bigcalm: Yeah it's not far to Telford
<bigcalm> 5.60 for a single taking 17 - 28 mins. Train it is then
<czajkowski> mail sent re cd allocation
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ^^
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] qbzr with curves - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4485
<AlanBell> czajkowski: the form still says Natty
<bigcalm> Hayley works pretty much next to the train station, so wouldn't have to pay for parking. Quite an exciting prospect this now :)
<oimon> any latex users? a user is complaining that kile is not picking up his classes in ~/texmf/
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I can't help that
<czajkowski> fill in the form will ya
<AlanBell> request submitted
<czajkowski> updating the wiki to keep mr. AlanBell happy
<czajkowski> :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: creep ;)
 * AlanBell wonders whether to point out the multiple Natty references and date in April on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingCds
<popey> It *is* a wiki.
 * AlanBell fixors
<AlanBell> apart from the date which I don't know
 * czajkowski peers at AlanBell 
<AlanBell> I guessed Oct 1st as the deadline for pre-orders
<czajkowski> no date was set alan
<AlanBell> yeah, but "22nd of April 2011" looked a bit silly
 * AlanBell hugs czajkowski for putting up with pedantic people
<czajkowski> it's fine really
<davmor2> AlanBell: Oi watch who you call pedantic ;)
<davmor2> AlanBell: by now you should know that czajkowski has the patients of a saint me and MooDoo are both still alive :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: well i don't know about you but i rather adore czajkowski :)
<Azelphur> anyone know how I can generate a .patch on some code I modified? :)
<Azelphur> there's no version control
<bigcalm> Using diff
<bigcalm> http://jungels.net/articles/diff-patch-ten-minutes.html
<Azelphur> $ diff gameq_new gameq
<Azelphur> Common subdirectories: gameq_new/GameQ and gameq/GameQ
<Azelphur> :(
<Azelphur> ah, ty
<bigcalm> You're welcome :)
<Azelphur> there we go, added some shiny https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3414481&group_id=85130&atid=575058 \o/
<Azelphur> popey: you might be interested in ^, GameQ is a PHP Library to query game servers, just added minecraft support to it. :)
<oimon> guys, where is the save game data for steam games like HL2 stored?
<oimon> about to wipe a disk and just need the hl2 save game
<ali1234> c:\users\<user>\
<directhex> oimon, c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\STEAMID\hl2\ ?
<directhex> it's not "steam games" sharing a common location, each game does its own thing
<ali1234> oh yeah i forgot i dn't have the steam version of hl2
<ali1234> and i don't think it uses the prfile anyway
<oimon> hmm doesn't seem to be there...think i'll hang on till tomorrow and not rush it :D
<oimon> thanks
<directhex> oimon, you sure? pretty sure i'm right. some long-dead neurons are sparking a bit
<directhex> http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?148098-Formatting-my-pc-where-is-the-HL2-saved-games&s=c857839daab8cca4ac2a22154bb36828&p=2791104#post2791104 agrees
<ali1234> my saves are at program files\half-life 2\hl2\save
<ali1234> none steam version as i said
<gord> isn't hl2 saved in the cloud now?
<directhex> gord, not sure. hard to check. as "steam cloud" middleware covers many things
<directhex> in theory though, yes, officially hl2 is a steam cloud item
<gord> i remember it being advertised as omgosh you can play on your pc, then go to your mac and resume from where you left off!
<directhex> yeah, theory.
<directhex> officially 232 games include steam cloud support
<directhex> sorry, make that "232 steam store entries"
<directhex> so some dlc marks itself as steam cloud for no good reason
<directhex> 151 games.
<directhex> but don't believe what you read online - e.g. Doom 2 is marked as steam cloud.
<directhex> i.e. "game details" section of http://store.steampowered.com/app/2300/
<tonytiger> It's podcast night!
<JGJones> ali1234, you can add your hard copy of HL2 to Steam - just enter the serial number and it'll be added to your Steam account.
<ali1234> why would i want to turn a physical, unrevokable copy of the game into a drm'd copy that can be taken away at any time?
<JGJones> You still have the physical copy.
<JGJones> You just get another copy within Steam itself.
<JGJones> as DRM goes...Steam compared to others isn't too bad, but yeah the risk is always there, but adding a serial number to Steam doesn't take away your physical copy - your DVD doesn't burst into flames like Mission Impossible :D
<MartijnVdS> .. yet
<directhex> i've bought DVD-case-sized cd keys before. left 4 dead, fallout new vegas, dawn of war 2 chaos, etc
<ali1234> but the dvd won't work without the serial
<directhex> those cd keys go into steam, and the cd key case goes on the shelf
<directhex> i think they come with a free hand-sized mirror too
<MartijnVdS> yeah with a hole in the middle so you don't have to stare at yourself
<directhex> MartijnVdS, that's the jobby
<directhex> i've also repurchased games on steam i own physical copies of, for the convenience of not needing a disc
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I purchase music like that
<MartijnVdS> directhex: they come in small boxes as well, with a similar mirror
<directhex> oh, i wonder what's on sale today on steam...
<directhex> hmph. Driver 4.
<directhex> and the extremely poorly rated D&D daggerdale
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Eric Ward Joining the Community Team at Canonical - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/27/eric-ward-joining-the-community-team-at-canonical/
<dogmatic69_> o/
<MartijnVdS> \o
<dogmatic69_> popey, you about tonight?
<dogmatic69_> hey MartijnVdS
 * dogmatic69_ is fighting with a vinyl cutter
<MartijnVdS> http://www.vinylrecorder.com/cutter.html ?
<dogmatic69_> nope, stickers
<dogmatic69_> i dont have anything like /dev/usb/lp0
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: what do you have?
<MartijnVdS> /dev/ttyUSB0/
<MartijnVdS> ?
<dogmatic69_> got that one
<dogmatic69_> should that be the printer uri?
<MartijnVdS> so it's serial, not parallel.. or you have some other USB serial device :)
<dogmatic69_> i think its serial
<MartijnVdS> and you're configuring CUPS?
<MartijnVdS> using the GUI?
<dogmatic69_> cups?
<MartijnVdS> the printer stuff
<dogmatic69_> ye admin->printers or something like that
<MartijnVdS> yes that one
<dogmatic69_> ive added as generic, raw printer as per the 100 blogs ive read
<Azelphur> http://www.eqdkp-plus.com/forum/post69394.html#p69394 am I right here? :p
<Azelphur> gpl licensing fun :D
<dogmatic69_> lsusb shows the thing in the list
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: so it's /dev/ttyUSB0 (unless you know you have another device, like a 3G dongle)
<dogmatic69_> the printer is the only thing attached atm
<dogmatic69_> i cant use /dev/ttyUSB0 as the uri
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: in the "Add printer" dialog, there should be several options
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: one to detect a printer, one for network printers
<MartijnVdS> and one for "parallel", "USB" and "serial" printers
<dogmatic69_> it has other and network
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<gord>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6r-kNct630 - ha itv used game footage and claimed it was real
<MartijnVdS> mine has "Serial port #1", "URI" and "Network"
<dogmatic69_> :S
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: try "serial:/dev/ttyUSB0"
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: maybe ?baud=speed_here (with "speed_here" replaced by the speed, like 9600 or 115200)
<MartijnVdS> there are some other options for start/stop bits and parity
<MartijnVdS> those should be googleable
<dogmatic69_> it says idle...
<MartijnVdS> sounds right -- no jobs?
<dogmatic69_> ye
<Azelphur> anyone know where I'd get a desk like this? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/September%202011/2011-09-27-191348_619x410_scrot.png
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Ikea?
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS, ok, printed something and now says... idle... unable to open /dev/ttyUSB0
<dogmatic69_> permission denied
<dogmatic69_> in the printer properties page that is
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: you'll have to make sure CUPS can open the serial device..
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: check (ls -l /dev/ttyUSB0)
<dogmatic69_> crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 188, 0 2011-09-27 19:02 /dev/ttyUSB0
<dogmatic69_> sudo chown me:me ?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: found something sorta similar on ikea, the thing I worry about is the strength
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.key.co.uk/desks-drawers_c_Main015001.html
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I dunno if you remember what my setup is, but there's a hell of a lot of weight on my desk
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ^ try the key one
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: not you:you
<dogmatic69_> chmod a+r/w
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: that should work, or chgrp to a group the printer stuff is in.. let mecheck
<dogmatic69_> is there a specific user for the printer stuff
<dogmatic69_> ok, thanks
<dogmatic69_> it feels like this is going to work...
<MartijnVdS> Just make it chmod 666 for now
<MartijnVdS> that should work in the short term
<dogmatic69_> still saying the same thing
<dogmatic69_> even tried 777
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: and if  you restart cups? (sudo restart cups)
<brobostigon> service?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: not needed anymore -- man restart :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: oh, interesting.
<MartijnVdS> (I'm on oneiric, this might be NewÂ®)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: let me try that here in debian unstable.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's an upstart thing I think
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: oh, ohwell.
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS, hmmm no errors now
<dogmatic69_> but nothing :D
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: improvement!
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS, after printing, the job goes in the queue and then after a bit its gone
 * brobostigon still uses/used /etc/init.d/* start/stop/restart , now, and even inside ubuntu, still.
<dogmatic69_> printing to my invisible paper atm...
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: now you need to figure out which driver/protocol to use
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: what kind of printer is it?
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS, im using tuxplot
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> no idea then :)
<dogmatic69_> its a vinyl cutter/plotter
 * MartijnVdS points in the general direction of popey 
<dogmatic69_> its like hp/something protocol
<MartijnVdS> HP/GL
<dogmatic69_> :)
<dogmatic69_> that is the one
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: but does that need a CUPS printer/driver though?
<dogmatic69_> well if its not there, tux does not see it
<dogmatic69_> ive watched some tuts saying install printer driver then use tux
<MartijnVdS> OK which driver do the tutorials say you should use? :)
<MartijnVdS> It could be a speed/start/stop/parity problem
<MartijnVdS> (9600/4800/115200, 8n1, etc.)
<dogmatic69_> it says add a printer generic then raw
<dogmatic69_> i dont know where i would get that info though
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: manufacturer, or windows driver
<dogmatic69_> he, its a chines machine and the windows driver is in that 'safe place'
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: nothing available on the internets?
<MartijnVdS> no info at all?
<dogmatic69_> gonna find the name of it and check around a bit
<dogmatic69_> lsusb has Bus 002 Device 005: ID 1a86:5523 QinHeng Electronics CH341 in serial mode, usb to serial port converter
<dogmatic69_> that comes up for linux kernal in google
<MartijnVdS> that's just the USB to Serial converter they've soldered to it :)
<popey> hmm?
<popey> podcasting tonight
<popey> so not about much
<MartijnVdS> oh yeah forgot about that :)
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS, its one of these http://tinyurl.com/6fkncsv
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: which one? 631, 801, 1261?
<dogmatic69_> i belive its the 631
<dogmatic69_> http://forum.ukcutter.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4
<dogmatic69_> that looks good
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: ah, 9600,8n1 :)
<dogmatic69_> so how would i define that :)
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: so add "?baud=9600" to the end of the URI
<MartijnVdS> serial:/dev/ttyUSB0?baud=9600
<dogmatic69_> and the 8n1
<MartijnVdS> that's default
<MartijnVdS> but there must be options, lmgtfy ;)
<MartijnVdS> baud=9600+bits=8+parity=none+flow=hard+
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> without the + at the end
<MartijnVdS> http://www.cups.org/doc-1.1/sdd.html#3_1_4
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: could you ping me when you have a few minutes free tomorrow?  I'd like to discuss Minecraft... My son wants to buy it and "I know nothing" ;-)
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: sure
<TheOpenSourcerer> ty
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS, still no luck :/
<mgdm> Is anyone here running Natty 64-bit, with Google Chrome from the official repo, and has a working Flash?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> oh
<MartijnVdS> oneiric here
<mgdm> I can't get it to work
<mgdm> I thought it was meant to be bundled, too
<mgdm> The 64-bit package hasn't got libgcflashplayer.so, but the 32-bit one does
<mgdm> Gah.
<MartijnVdS> flash isn't bundled in chrome for me
<MartijnVdS> It's using the system-installed one
<MartijnVdS> PDF works though
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS, i think i found the issue... maybe it should be parallel data going there, not serial
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: if it shows up to the system as serial, it's serial
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: also, data is data :)
<dogmatic69_> the printer has tiny text by the usb saying parallel
<MartijnVdS> maybe a switch?
 * MartijnVdS has no idea, sorry
<davmor2> bigcalm: what you doing next Thursday 6th of Oct if I'm looking right that will be the first once we have confirmation that the bulk of us are free 2 out of 4 so far :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: as long as I get wifi, I can do any day really. So 6th Oct is good for me
<bigcalm> What do you call these things?
<mgdm> How do I fix the flashplugin-installer package in natty? It 404s
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's one of the things I'm going to go up there and confirm as we all need it, but they have said as long as we let them know they'll make sure that everything we need it there
<davmor2> bigcalm: Just a workspace day I guess unless we come up with something snappier
<bigcalm> That's good enough for me for now ;) Wanted to put something in my google calendar
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<czajkowski> hows my favourite
 * davmor2 runs off screaming in despair
<davmor2> czajkowski: Good thanks you?
<bigcalm> davmor2: you have to worry when czajkowski is being nice
<czajkowski> davmor2: I'm great so gald to see you happy my dear
<davmor2> bigcalm: no normally just means she is after something
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Hi czajkowski :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: what arrival/departure times are you looking at for the place? Can you tell that I've never done such things before?
<davmor2> bigcalm: normal work hours for me it will be 9â6 ish maybe a bit earlier
<bigcalm> Gotcha
<bigcalm> My hours are 9->6 as well, but wondered if different hours were expected
<davmor2> bigcalm: no that'll be the norm
<bigcalm> And the venue is light-house.co.uk ?
<mgdm> \o/ it works
<mgdm> Byebye Firefox
<dogmatic69_> omfg, its printing
<bigcalm> mgdm: not a web developer any more? :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeap
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS, thanks a lot!
<mgdm> bigcalm: chrome's dev tools are pretty good, IMO
<dogmatic69_> i switched ports, then printer-> add showed serial#1 or something, now it works
<davmor2> bigcalm: just to confirm it's right around the corner from the trainstation if you look on google maps
<davmor2> bigcalm: or indeed openstreet map
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Cheers
<jacobw> dogmatic69_: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/printers
<dogmatic69_> hehe
<bigcalm> Whistling along with Alpha Beta Gaga while trying not to whistle along with Alpha Beta Gaga
 * mgdm considers recompiling Pidgin without the 'attention' button and associated keyboard shortcut
<jacobw> mgdm: i think there's a ppa for that..
<mgdm> jacobw: oooo
<jacobw> mgdm: lots of people don't like it
<mgdm> I'm not surprised
<bigcalm> Is that the one that shakes your recipient's window?
<mgdm> Yeah
<bigcalm> Eugh
<jacobw> fry's planet word
<jacobw> \o/
<jacobw> i like it when he's talking about something understands :)
 * jacobw hides from unconditional fry lovers
<dogmatic69_> still having some issues with printing here, its working sporadically. sometimes nothing, other times works :/
<bigcalm> Thinking it might be cheaper to buy a new watch than it is to buy a new strap :(
<jacobw> bigcalm: http://pathfinder.casio.com/features/
<jacobw> you need one of these
<jacobw> a watch with an altimeter and a barometer!
<bigcalm> I'm assuming that the content is all flash as I get just a white blank area :)
<jacobw> ah
<jacobw> yeah
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu 11.04 Covered By CNN-IBN in India - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/27/ubuntu-11-04-covered-by-cnn-india/
<bigcalm> console.log("here:" + $j('.offPeakCostTotal', tableScope).val());
<bigcalm> Well, that wasn't intentional
<bigcalm> What does f2 do in firefox?
<Guest91681> hi, does anyone know hot to put a classic bar on unity? One bar where we can see the programs we have open
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15082177 anyone got a link to the video?
<ali1234> Guest91681: you can't
<ali1234> switch to classic desktop
<ali1234> btw, classic will be removed in the next version
<Guest91681> really?
<Guest91681> only unity then?
<ali1234> unity, gnome shell or kde
<Guest91681> and what about ubuntu studio?
<ali1234> i dunno
<Guest91681> gnome shell looks very strange
<ali1234> that's because it is
<ali1234> kde is the only one that is actually workable
<ali1234> it also happens to be the ugliest one
<ali1234> but if you can put up with that, or don't notice it it is fine
<Guest91681> true
<ali1234> if you need something that has a halfway decent theme then xfce is probably the best choice
<ali1234> unfortunately feature-wise xfce is roughly equivalent to gnome 1.x
<ali1234> everything else has severe usability issues
<ali1234> if i had the time i'd make a kde setup that was good
<ali1234> i tried it before but after 2 weeks i didn't really get anywhere
<ali1234> it would involve rewriting most of the font handling, and making a whole new desktop system in plasma
<ali1234> i think when 11.10 comes out i'll switch to kde anyway
<ali1234> been using unity for 6 months now, none of the bugs have been fixed, and the next version looks even worse
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Frustrations of job hunting - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/09/27/frustrations-of-job-hunting/
<mgdm> i don't remember openOffice being as stupid as LibreOffice is in handling multiple screens :/
<hamitron> I'm never using LibreOffice again
<hamitron> I tried it, and it wouldn't uninstall on windows
<hamitron> ;)
<mgdm> This is on Natty
<ali1234> works fine here
<Guest91681> ok here with compiz aswell
<Guest91681> is therto open complex excell documents on libre?e a way
<ali1234> file->open
<ali1234> if it doesn't work, forget it
<Guest91681> tx ali
<Guest91681> well nn alll :)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-28
<hamitron> how does 10.04 run with 1Gb RAM?
<ali1234> poorly
<hamitron> reckon just X and firefox will run ok?
<hamitron> no Gnome and stuff
<ali1234> X will run in 32mb
<ali1234> i recommend you use 32 bit and compile a kernel with highmem disabled
<hamitron> but how much does firefox really need?
<ali1234> firefox will adapt it's memory use to slightly more memory than you have
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> great
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> i stopped noticing memory issues after i upgraded from 4gb to 16gb
<hamitron> this is only for testing anyway
<ali1234> firefox actually has a piece of code in it that looks like "switch(system_memory) case 128: use x amount for cache; case 256: use y amount;
<hamitron> it will be moved to a system with 16Gb later this year
<ali1234> luckily they didn't expect anyone to have 16gb, it stops are 4gb i think
<hamitron> hha
<hamitron> "until next time" ;/
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> kde has a nice crash dumper
<ali1234> it installs debug packages for you
<ali1234> with apport it won't do it unless you run some obscure command line
<ali1234> of course i'd rather not see it at all
<ali1234> i wonder if this thing is going to send the report to launchpad or to kde
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> may try editing browser.cache.disk.capacity too
<hamitron> ty for your input ali1234
<hamitron> laters o/
<ali1234> wow kde just gets sillier
<ali1234> now you can move any window to a tab in any other window
<hamitron> :|
<ali1234> so you can move control panel into a tab in your konsole window
<ali1234> of course you can only open ONE control panel so if you actually do this, you'll just lose it forever
<ali1234> completely stupid feature
<hamitron> doesn't firefox do that?
<ali1234> firefox?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> you can't put gnome control panel in a firefox tab
<hamitron> oh no
<hamitron> true
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but can move tabs around groups
<ali1234> yes, firefox tabs
<ali1234> in kde, every single application is tabbed, and you can move any application into a tab in any other applications window
<hamitron> I guess KDE has always been there to "do everything"
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> the thing is kde does not do everything
<ali1234> it does a lot of pointless stuff like thi
<ali1234> but it doesn't do everything
<hamitron> it sure feels like it, when looking through everything to find 1 thing
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> but yeh
<hamitron> laters o/
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/176517
<ali1234> not bad
<ali1234> it's a shame that plasma widgets don't fit in with the rest of the system
<ali1234> and that they are all so buggy
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Video On Dealing With Burnout - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/28/video-on-dealing-with-burnout/
<AlanBell> good morning, cheer up with a coffee \o/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15059266
<MooDoo> yay
<AlanBell> if you are an american female nurse /o\
 * AlanBell encounters rule 34 when searching for ocelot pictures
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning matey
<diplo> Morning all
<hoover> good morning all
<Hippychick> morning
<hoover> is there a way to configure vsftpd to produce a short listing by default?
<hoover> apparently there's an inbuilt ls command
<MartijnVdS> haha ftp :P
<hoover> don't laugh... ancient system.
<hoover> 8-P
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<czajkowski> MooDoo: so hows the new edition
<MooDoo> czajkowski: still on oz time at the moment :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ooh - what did you get MooDoo ?
<dogmatic69> o/
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: he had a baby
<czajkowski> where have you been
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: girl :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: I know that!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Duh
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: Congrats.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Name?
<MooDoo> Rosie Victoria
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> IRC Handle yet?
<TheOpenSourcerer> MiniMooDoo
<MooDoo> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> CuteMooDoo
<TheOpenSourcerer> Parenthood is [ahem] interesting.
<MooDoo> yeah very :) #1 son is 3 now
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah OK you are expererienced
<Hippychick> hmm, loads of people i know are having babies
 * Hippychick gets broody
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mine are 7 & 11 now.
<MartijnVdS> 7/11
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Have you taken them to a 7-eleven? :)
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: got that vinyl cutting working, ditched tux plot and added some plot extension to inkscape, works way better. thanks for the help last night
<TheOpenSourcerer> 11 yr old behaves like Kevin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLuEY6jN6gY
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: cool
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: http://i.imgur.com/zbWPq.jpg
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: already pirating trademarked logos I see :P
<dogmatic69> well im making a sbk clone :D
<dogmatic69> bike will look like this shortly http://s2.visordown.com/uploads/images/large/25351.jpg
<dogmatic69> they should be paying me for advertising ;)
<MartijnVdS> aww, with training wheels :P
<dogmatic69> lol
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<dogmatic69> o/ bigcalm
<MartijnVdS> \o bc
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<Myrtti> hello
<bigcalm> I'm not actually as awake as my greeting would suggest
 * bigcalm hugs Myrtti
<TheOpenSourcerer> hello Myrtti - looks like you need coffee ;-) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15059266
<Myrtti> I'd rather have tea atm, but there isn't proper tea anywhere in sight
<MartijnVdS> "Proper tea management", sounds like an awesome job
<Myrtti> spending money on things I have no personal use of in this life is depressing
<dogmatic69> Myrtti: what is your idea of 'proper tea'
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: :D
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: not decaf
<Myrtti> there is no decaf tea in Finland
<dogmatic69> ah, what is the point of decaf...
 * TheOpenSourcerer hates tea.
<Myrtti> apart from tisanes
 * MartijnVdS has some fresh Darjeeling
<dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer: what you doing in ubuntu-*uk* then :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I live on coffee.#
<bigcalm> You've all put me in the mood for some lapsang souchong. Back in a bit :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> moar coffee.
<Myrtti> Earl Gray is nice and some fruity teas too, but when I wan't proper tea, I mean proper English proper plain tea. Which doesn't include Earl Gray, tisanes, fruity teas, decaf, rooibos, and especially and specifically NOT Lipton Yellow Label
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: with milk?
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: of course.
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Well, I've seen holy wars about that..
<dogmatic69> been reading some not so good things about 11.10 and 3.0 kernel. apparently battery life is not important :/
<dogmatic69> anyone tried it out on a laptop?
<bigcalm> When visiting France, we always take a box of Yorkshire Hard Water tea bags with us
<BigRedS> it doesn't seem markedly worse than 2.6.38 to me on mine
 * AlanBell has coffee
<Myrtti> bigcalm: I should have brought Yorkshire soft with me, in UK it's the hard we use
<czajkowski> MORNING LOVELY PEOPLE
<BigRedS> argh. she's typing in SQL again
<MooDoo> czajkowski: wow your happy today
 * Myrtti goes to make some damned coffee
<bigcalm> Myrtti: hard water in Shropshire and most places we visit in France. Good to have both just in case though :)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: I am you know
<czajkowski> today is a great day
<bigcalm> \o/
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you rock!
<czajkowski> I do
<czajkowski> I have to admit
<bigcalm> Heh
<czajkowski> but so do you all
<czajkowski> #
<bigcalm> Oh my
<AlanBell> czajkowski: your briliance is only exceeded by your modesty
<MooDoo> if i had a rose, i'd give it to czajkowski , one form of beauty to another :D
<bigcalm> Bucket!
<bigcalm> I need a bucket!
<AlanBell> czajkowski: refuse the rose, until it is out of nappies
<MooDoo> hehe we're currently in the "oooo it's rosie and jim" phase with people at the moment, although my son is called Jimmy
<Myrtti> bigcalm: Cambridgeshire
<bigcalm> :D
<gord> rosie and jim were *terrifying*
<czajkowski> whats rosie and jim
<scoundrel50a> I come across something in 11.10 called Personal File Sharing, I open it up and it says it shares file over the network, but underneath it says 'This feature cannot be enabled because the required packaged are not installed on your system' but it does tell you what packages need to install anyb ody know?
<AlanBell> all together now!
<gord> czajkowski, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwYP6eesX9E
<gord> let their cold dead eyes infest your mind
<MooDoo> :)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: they are like Tilly Tom and Tiny from tots TV
 * AlanBell suspects that won't help much
<scoundrel50a> sorry lost connection and didnt realise, does anybody have any ideas?
<daubers> scoundrel50a: I think that uses webdav, but don't quote me on that
<scoundrel50a> oh, I have no clue about that, ok thank you, will leave that I think
<scoundrel50a> 11.10 is getting better, not so buggy,
<scoundrel50a> only thing is, in system setting system info, it tells you there under  graphics that Experience says fallback, how do i get around that, it should allow as updates are occuring to change that, my chip should be able to cope with it
<AlanBell> scoundrel50a: normally there is a button to install them, it is samba stuff I think
<scoundrel50a> no button
<daubers> AlanBell: That's something else :)
<daubers> AlanBell: You're thinking of when you right click on a folder and goto "sharing options"
<AlanBell> yeah, I was
<daubers> If you do that, that will use samba and offer to install the relevant packages
<scoundrel50a> yeh, I have been doing that, with my files to chare
<scoundrel50a> but this something else
<scoundrel50a> jpw can I take a picture and add it here
<AlanBell> please do, it sounds interesting
<scoundrel50a> how
<scoundrel50a> do I add the picture here
<bigcalm> Myrtti: yay :)
<daubers> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<bigcalm> scoundrel50a: a link to the image is fine in here
<bigcalm> scoundrel50a: for multi-line, use a paste bin :)
<scoundrel50a> is there an image storage thing I can use, to create a link
<oimon> imgur.com or publish a picture via ubuntu one
<scoundrel50a> ah, thank you
<Myrtti> bigcalm: â¥
<scoundrel50a> am taking pic now will get the link up in a couple of secs when I can
<bigcalm> Myrtti: congrats to you both :)
<Myrtti> and now, with this positive attitude, I think I'm ready to spend money on a headstone.
<Myrtti> I've been putting it off for a week.
<scoundrel50a> http://imgur.com/gfetB
<bigcalm> scoundrel50a: looks like you should file a bug :)
<scoundrel50a> ok, will do
<scoundrel50a> what about the other problem with system info and my graphics, where it says the Experience is on Fallback, how do I change that
<bigcalm> What's your graphics card?
<bigcalm> If it's ATI or nVidia, then you can install a 3rd party driver and get wizz bang effects :)
<scoundrel50a> I got my laptop from linux emporium with 11.04 and 11.10 oreinstalled, no windows, the card is Mobile IntelÂ® GM45 Express Chipset x86/MMX/SSE2
<bigcalm> Right, that's passed my limit of knowledge :)
<scoundrel50a> so you dont know that graphics card?
<scoundrel50a> would you know how to get out of it being in fallback?
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<bigcalm> I know about Intel, but I don't know anything more about graphics I'm afraid. I tend to use non-wizzy-bang desktops
<Myrtti> that was probably the most painful bill I've ever paid
<bigcalm> Myrtti: well done for doing it though
<bigcalm> Myrtti: now you can order some tea from the interwebs
<Myrtti> I wouldn't mind if I hadn't been saving the money for four years to pay driving school
<Myrtti> oh well.
<bigcalm> Was there no money left to cater for such things?
<scoundrel50a> http://imgur.com/jEsMD
<scoundrel50a> ok, thanks anyway
<Myrtti> no cash, only assets that we either don't want to or can't easily turn into money
<bigcalm> Ah
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<HippyChick> hmm, google has detected some unusual traffic from my computer....
<gord> i get that every time i use the search function in the online gtk documentation
<oimon> can any parents suggest a good device to stop children opening some sliding wardrobe doors?
<HippyChick> oimon, what about somthing you normally put on a reptile cage to stop them from opening doors?
<HippyChick> not sure if you can get them for wardrobes though...
<bigcalm> Place a latch high enough out of reach
<drussell> bear trap infront of the doors?
<oimon> there's no handles on the doors. they are big floor to ceiling doors on runners
<oimon> this is the only thing i've seen so far
<oimon> http://www.amazon.co.uk/BabyDan-Sliding-Door-Clip-LARGE/dp/B001DSUVIO
<oimon> but would prefer something you can clip onto the runners
<bigcalm> oimon: http://static.topclasscarpentry.com/images/thumbnails/category/gold-cabin-hook_300.jpg
<bigcalm> Screw it into the doors
<oimon> glass doors
<oimon> something like this but nicer http://www.yourstyledoors.co.uk/siteimages/10/1/9/101934/531063.jpg
<daubers> http://www.imgftw.net/img//504283520.jpg <- Looks like fun
<bigcalm> daubers: let us know how you get on
<daubers> bigcalm: Unfortunatley my passport is not currently accessible for the last part of the form :(
<oimon> you need a passport?
<daubers> Some form of government based ID
 * oimon doesn't have a passport
<HippyChick> hmm, tempted to do that when i get home, need to dig out my passport  anyway
<Daviey> daubers: surely you can expect to pay Â£10?
<daubers> Daviey: Thought that was for FOI requests
<daubers> (didn't think this was FoI)
<Daviey> Nah
<Daviey> I assume it's a Subject Access Request
<daubers> Daviey: TBH it'd be worth it for this part of the info "knowledge of the logic involved in any automatic processing of data concerning him at least in the case of the automated decisions referred to in Article 15(1);"
<daubers> http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=93
<gord> who are you really annoying with that though? "facebook" or the poor people that have to sit and do it
<Daviey> daubers: .ie ?
<daubers> Daviey: They're part of the EU too.....
<Daviey> daubers: Hmm, rather than Â£10 is claims it requires a pot of gold?
<daubers> Daviey: To the end of the rainbow!!
<popey> Morning all
<MooDoo> moring popey
<daubers> o/
<danfish> morning
<selinuxium> MooDoo, Why are you tying popey up to the waters edge?
<danfish> oimon: these are good general purpoise locks http://www.amazon.co.uk/BabyDan-8247-98-75-Child-Safety-Multi-Lock/dp/B000MLMGE0/ref=sr_1_5?s=baby&ie=UTF8&qid=1317202874&sr=1-5
<selinuxium> Morning popey
<MooDoo> selinuxium: badum tish....lol
<bigcalm> Hi popey, and what time do you call this?
<selinuxium> MooDoo, :) I have to get my humour started.. need more coffee... :)
<selinuxium> AlanBell, hey there
<HippyChick> good morning popey, selinuxium
<selinuxium> Hey  HippyChick, long time no see. :) You good?
<AlanBell> o/ selinuxium
<HippyChick> yeah, on a train to selby at the moment
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<selinuxium> Who is going to the release party then?
<selinuxium> HippyChick, I suppose someone has to... :)
<HippyChick> yeah, i lost the argument, quite literally
<HippyChick> doesnt look like i can go to the release party either :( about time i get home and get a train to london it will be time to go home again
<selinuxium> HippyChick, I think there is a Leeds party, might be easier to get to?
<HippyChick> if its tonight then yeah, im going back home tonight though, which is maidstone
<danfish> A quick question if I may and apologies if the answer is obvious, but a project that claims to be open source but doesn't state what licence and offers no download links on it's website isn't really open source, is it?
<danfish> http://openeyes.org.uk <-- this one
<gord> can you get a copy of the source code?
<shauno> you don't need to have download links to be open source.  you just have to make the source available to people who receive the binaries from you
<danfish> gord: by looking through one the pdf's under documentation I found on one page a git repo, but still no licence
<gord> shauno, actually no thats gpl
<danfish> https://github.com/openeyes/OpenEyes.git
<hoover> any vsftpd experts availabler?
<gord> "open source" really just means that the source code is open, its viewable
<hoover> abler... hehe
<hoover> ;-)
<davmor2> morning all
<daubers> Nice
 * davmor2 runs up and hugs czajkowski 
<daubers> sat listening to spotify and my laptop suspends
 * davmor2 slap MooDoo a high five
<davmor2> daubers: running oneiric?
<daubers> davmor2: Yup
<gord> i'v found that the gnome power control thingy doesn't listen to a word i say recently
<davmor2> daubers: yeap gnome's new aggressive suspend system
<davmor2> gord: agreed
 * daubers sets it to _not_ suspend when on mains
<kirrus> Does anyone know of a good book to learn PHP5/MySQL for web-coding? Preferably one that won't cost a bomb? :)
<MooDoo> sitepoint ones are ok
<MooDoo> not sure about cost as i got given them
<bigcalm> kirrus: o'rly do good books on the subject
<bigcalm> WordPress debugging can be a chore. A server has been upgraded from php 5.2 to 5.3. This has broken a theme or plugin for one WordPress site on the server (others work). Buggered if I can get it to tell me what's broken
<davmor2> kirrus: there was a very good html/php/db book that was on planet ubuntu a why ago I'll see if I can track it down for you
<kirrus> Cool! :) I learnt using Larry Ullman's books, but he's got a weird mix of techs in his versions (php5/mysql4, php6/mysql5), and I don't want to subject my friend to that :)
<kirrus> bigcalm: turn on debug mode, in wordpress?
<bigcalm> kirrus: yep, didn't help :)
<bigcalm> I think I've tracked down the plugin at fault
<selinuxium> bigcalm, I am putting together my first wordpress site..
<bigcalm> selinuxium: creating a theme from scratch?
<selinuxium> bigcalm, nah I have one from Graph Paper Press.
<selinuxium> bigcalm, this one http://demo.graphpaperpress.com/widescreen/
<bigcalm> AlanBell: the venue I suggested for the ubuntu happy hour has closed
<bigcalm> Which also means that the Shopshire LUG have to find somewhere else to meet
<TheOpenSourcerer> selinuxium: You should use mine ;-) http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/open-sourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> I must do a new one when I get a mo...
<daubers> Question: Does whoever is operating pad.ubuntu-uk.org mind if I use it for non ubuntu-uk related stuffs? (i.e. organising with reading hackspace)
<popey> daubers: that would be daviey
<popey> daubers: you should install etherpad lite, it's super awesome
<popey> it does struggle sometimes
<daubers> is it? Has it been ported to 10.04?
<diplo> http://mclear.co.uk/2011/08/01/install-etherpad-lite-on-ubuntu/
<diplo> I've always used this guys instructions, seems to work well
<daubers> Not sure my VPS would cope particularly well with all the other stuff it does too
 * daubers ponders cloudy stuffs
<oimon> etherpad seems handy
<directhex> etherpad lite is featureless
<directhex> regular etherpad is INSANE and runs three copies of OOo in the background
<AlanBell> or none, if you don't let it
<AlanBell> still insane though
<directhex> Enterprise(tm) Java
<oimon> insane good or insane bad?
<AlanBell> oimon: java
<directhex> oimon, see above
<directhex> oimon, the system requirements cite a gig of ram
 * AlanBell gets back to poking at Alfresco
<AlanBell> some muppet installed Alfresco, on Windows, with MSSQL
<oimon> ah.. "Etherpad LiteÂ is an almost complete rewrite of the original Etherpad software, based on different technical foundations and written by different authors. While the original EtherPad is written inÂ ScalaÂ and has quite bigsystem requirements, Etherpad Lite is written in server-sideÂ JavaScriptÂ usingÂ node.js."
<daubers> Daviey: ping
<popey> daubers: etherpad lite is very lite
<oimon> is the pad.ubuntu-uk.org an etherpad or etherpad lite?
<popey> i ran it on my microserver
<popey> etherpad
<AlanBell> as is pad.ubuntu.com
 * oimon has resources to burn
<AlanBell> but that has been interfered with
<oimon> i need to investigate plan B when my new overlords enforce sharepoint
<daubers> popey: Will be more of a "Can I use it for such as an interim arrangement until I get back of hols in a few weeks and have time to sort something else" :)
<popey> well...
<popey> 11:18:18 < pitti> moved our etherpad to pad.ubuntu.com, which is hopefully  more stable
<daubers> popey: Which channel was that?
 * AlanBell gets a parcel from Hong Kong
<popey> #ubuntu-release
<daubers> ok
<oimon> so if i have spare resources, is etherpad fat preferred over lite?
<popey> depends what you want to do with i
<popey> *it
<popey> if you just want it as a place to edit docus together and then copy/paste out to a real doc then either
<dogmatic69> hey popey o/
<popey> lo
 * dogmatic69 got the vinyl cutter working on ubuntu :)
<popey> yay
<dogmatic69> had some help from MartijnVdS, but after ubuntu was detecting it and i ditched tuxplot it pretty much works out the box
<sagaci> AlanBell, so is pad.ubuntu.com available for general team usage or only via a UDS session?
<Laney> w
<jpds> OK.
<AlanBell> sagaci: as long as you don't get in the way of the UDS pads I don't think anyone cares
<sagaci> yeah, thought so
<AlanBell> czajkowski: you can learn about the internet! http://www.siliconrepublic.com/new-media/item/23771-1-8m-scheme-to-help-40-000/
<czajkowski> heh
<dogmatic69> train 40k people at Â£47 each. sounds like there will be 40k new sys admins soon
<TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: nah, 23,000 will be silver surfers (or your mum & dad). Arrrgggghhhh!
<dogmatic69> :D
<dogmatic69> seems like its the same as putting 1.8m in a hole, adding some petrol and lighting it.
<kirrus> Could be worse. You could give it to the banks.
<Daviey> daubers: o/
<daubers> Daviey: \o/ Mind if I use the pad.ubuntu-uk.org etherpad for some reading hackspace stuff until I can get something else set up?
<Daviey> daubers: sure.. it's been a little poorly at times, but i don't mind.
<dogmatic69> is that google wave stuff?
<daubers> Daviey: Poorly how? Running out of capacity? Or just etherpad crazyness creaking at it's hinges?
<Daviey> daubers: I think it just needs some housekeeping, tweaking
<daubers> Ah, okies :)
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmm smeone nicked one of my customer's domain names :(
<Azelphur> :(
<MooDoo> boooo  was it expired?
<ali1234> no
<Azelphur> how'd they nick it?
<MooDoo> com/net/orf?
<ali1234> they must have rang up 1and1, done a bit of identity theft, and just asked them to transfer it
<ali1234> co.uk
<Azelphur> nice
<MooDoo> contact nominet, they can get it back
<ali1234> the perp has ut his hotmail.co.uk address on the squatting page he's put up
<MooDoo> nominet should be able to get it back for them no probs
<ali1234> the registrar is still 1and1
<ali1234> they've just updated the dns to point to another provider
<ali1234> so looks like we're still in control and can just cahnge it back
<ali1234> exept 1and1 control panel is giving 500 error
<MooDoo> lol ah good old 1and1
<dogmatic69> is there a way to disable the numberpad moving the mouse? i keep turning it off and it keep turning back on some how
<Azelphur> xD
<dogmatic69> ali1234: set up a box on aws and DDos him till he gives it back
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: he's not actually got it, just made 1and1 change the nameservers
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> that is lame
<MooDoo> i keep getting letters from the domain registrar of america telling me my domains are about to expire :)
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: quick, send your details so they dont
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: they are on my todo list, i'm just sending people from nigeria my bank details at the moment
<dogmatic69> ah, nice. i sent mine off last week. waiting to hear back now
<kirrus> We get customers calling up all confused about those DRoA letters :9
<kirrus> *:(
<diplo> So do we
<diplo> Annyoing isn't it
<MooDoo> letter ---> bin :)
<kirrus> Quite. I got one in the post yesterday as well. Letter -> shredder ;)
<daubers> Meh, it's cheaper than loo paper
 * hamitron 's arse has standards
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> well nwow i'm confused
<bigcalm> :|
<ali1234> according to one and one the dns records can only be changed by logging into the control panel
<ali1234> nobody knows the control panel password but me
<ali1234> it's a string of random letters and numbers
<oimon> does anyone have a "magic trackpad"?
<kirrus> ali1234: do they log logins? can they tell when the last 5 logins were, and what IPs were they from?
<popey> oimon: i do
<ali1234> dunno, didn't ask, not gonna help
<oimon> popey: replaces your mouse for your desktop pc right?
<popey> thats the idea
<oimon> how's it work for you?
<popey> s/desktop//g
<popey> i dont use it that often, it's not on my pc
<oimon> not really a game changer then
<popey> dunno how you make the leap from "I dont use it" to "not a game changer"
<BigRedS> well, if it was a game changer, presumably you'd use it?
<BigRedS> presuming it changed it for something good
<popey> its not on my pc
<popey> if it was my pc I would us eit
<popey> *use it
<oimon> i was thinking of treating my team to some small IT purchase, thuoght maybe magic trackpads might be nice
 * popey sighs at ubuntu-users
 * bigcalm now has a blue dragon that eyes you up as you climb the stairs
<oimon> mailing lists seem to have more persistent trolls camping under the bridge than most forms of communication
<oimon> but they are easy to spot because of their sigs :)
<czajkowski> I have to say
<czajkowski> I rock
<czajkowski> :D
 * czajkowski does a little dance and offers sweets all around 
<czajkowski> ps you have to come here for the sweets
 * MooDoo holds up a banner "we love czajkowski!"
<popey> chrisccoulson: you planning on building firefox 7 for 11.10 in the mozilla ppa?
<popey> er
<popey> 11.04
<ali1234> the irony is that the squatting/holding page is actually better than the real one
<czajkowski> MooDoo: aww wuv you too
<dogmatic69> ali1234: whats the domain?
<ali1234> don't want to say :)
<dogmatic69> k
<popey> goat-lovers.co.uk
<ali1234> specially after i just slated it
 * BigRedS apologises to popey 
<popey> no need
 * dogmatic69 does not believe popey 
<popey> hmm?
<ali1234> well, dns is reset now anyway
<dogmatic69> 24h wait
<ali1234> i don't understand how these guys got the control panel password though
<ali1234> yeah 24h
<popey> dogmatic69: what you on about?
<ali1234> either they must have compromised my gmail, or my desktop machine
<dogmatic69> ali1234: hack email server, add mail forwarder, wait
<popey> or there is a hole in the panel?
<ali1234> 1and1's panel you mean
<popey> yeah
<dogmatic69> ali1234: ive read about gmail. some js that steals a session, adds the forwarder and done
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> the person who did it had to ring up 1and1 to get instructions on how to do it
<dogmatic69> popey: i asked ali1234 what the site was and you said goat-lovers.co.uk :D
<popey> ah
<popey> sorry
<ali1234> so they're not master hackers
<dogmatic69> ali1234: it is bad that 1and1 did that, social engineering and all
<ali1234> well this is the problem
<ali1234> i dunno if it is a social engineering hack, or theyve hacked my email or desktop machine
<ali1234> i find it unlikely that they have hacked my desktop
<dogmatic69> if it was social engineering, they are 1) quite good or 2) 1and1 is quite lame
<ali1234> well we tested them, rang up and tried to get the password
<ali1234> they rfused, and sent it by email to me
<ali1234> which leaves email or desktop hacking
<dogmatic69> after you told them about this?
<dogmatic69> maybe more on the lookout
<ali1234> after, but it was a different call
<ali1234> perhaps
<ali1234> one other thing
<ali1234> iknow 1and1 can read your password for control panel
<dogmatic69> could have been an internal email 'dont fing do that again'
<hamitron> or maybe just a member of staff not following procedure
<ali1234> actually maybe not
<ali1234> maybe they just log in to the control panel as you to test it :)
<dogmatic69> hmmm, if they can read it its not hashed and could be hacked
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> yeah maybe this guy is a real thicko and has no idea, and just bugged and bugged them until they told him exactly what to do
<dogmatic69> something like a sql injection and everything is toast
<ali1234> maybe it's accidental and he didn't even realise he used the wrong domain
<ali1234> don't think they can read it
<ali1234> the sometimes ask for control panel login for security
<ali1234> but they could test that without knowing it
<dogmatic69> that sounds legit, some client that does not know what a mouse is calls and asks to move a domain, they click the wrong one
<hamitron> I better get some work done
<hamitron> gl ali1234
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> 1and1 control panel was down today when i tried to log in
<ali1234> maybe 1and1 were hacked properly andlost all the customer stuff
<ali1234> and just haven't said anything yet
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> this guy has the same domain but with an extra "s"
<oimon> ilikesheep.com and ilikesheeps.com ...easy mistake to make
<ali1234> yeah
<diplo> ali1234, I read earlier that 1and1 had a huge failure ( hardware ) yesterday/day before
<ali1234> yesterday/day before is when it happened
<diplo> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/26/1and1_server_outage/
<oimon> Registrant:   I Like Sheep Enterprises
<ali1234> hardware failure = "we set fire to the servers to destroy the evidence of the massive security intrusion"?
<diplo> :p
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> maybe while the systems were down, tech support was a bit confused, and more likely to fall for the social engineering/generally make stupid mistakes
<ali1234> this whole thing looks a bit like a misunderstanding between similar domain names
<ali1234> you also log into 1and1 with domain name as user name
<ali1234> so this guy probably typod and then rang up customer support when his password didn't work
<ali1234> and due to the major problems, they couldn't sort it out properly
<oimon> using the premise that any good 1st line support people are usually promoted...
<ali1234> so they were just like "hmm, ok here's you password reset"
<oimon> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/09/28/1223250/Intel-Drops-MeeGo
<ali1234> yes its all about the tizer now
<oimon> you can tell it's tizen with your eyes shut
<oimon> it's bad for chip makers to have an OS anyway
<ali1234> all the jokes on that slashdot story were made in #meego yesterday :)
<ali1234> mostly by me
<oimon> i don't read comment on slashdot until the story is a day old...up.downvoting weeds out the crap
 * oimon refills his pez dispenser
<popey> \o/ pez
<davmor2> popey: depends on the pez
<oimon> davmor2: flavour or dispenser?
 * oimon is eating strawberry from a wall-e dispenser
<diplo> Don't even know what pez is :P
<davmor2> oimon: dispenser
<popey> plastic box with a head on it
<oimon> i'd prefer a chewbacca dispenser
<popey> pivot head, sweet pops out
<diplo> ah kids thinhs ?
<popey> no!
<diplo> things*
<popey> :D
<oimon> diplo: no, adults things that kids may use if allowed :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: when will you know if Thursday next week is going ahead or not?
<diplo> heh I have a few of them hanging about from when the kids are round
<bigcalm> I'll need to inform my boss of my travel plans
<davmor2> bigcalm: any minute
<bigcalm> Cool
<davmor2> bigcalm: So I think it's safe to assume it's on unless told otherwise,  we need to double check everything will be in place other than that we are ready to rock and roll :)
<bigcalm> Sweet
<bigcalm> How many peeps are turning up?
<bigcalm> And which bit of the place will I need to go to? You're welcome to inform me closer to the time :)
<popey> details details
<popey> you worry too much
<bigcalm> Sometimes
<popey> (c) Daviey
<bigcalm> I worry less during my own time. But if I'm on company time, I need to plan
<bigcalm> Due to the joys of skype numbers, it's quite likely that I'll be taking calls
<popey> i need to test skype on my phone
<bigcalm> (as long as the wifi works) :)
<AlanBell> popey: android video skype?
<popey> audio
<popey> but iphone
<popey> hahah
 * popey clicks "decline"
<popey> signed in on pc, need to sign in on phone
<popey> doesnt seem to want to connect over the proxy here
<popey> which is annoying
<bigcalm> Surprised?
<AlanBell> skype normally laughs in the face of proxys
 * bigcalm watches the yummy mummies walk past the house having collected their little darlings from primary school. Hooray for fine weather :)
<popey> skype works fine on my pc via the exact same proxy
<popey> http://forum.skype.com/index.php?showtopic=341981&st=40
<popey> seems its well known broken
<popey> bum
<AlanBell> turn off wifi and use the cell connection
<dogmatic69> nothing new then, skypes always broken
<popey> rubbish reception in this building
<popey> will have to wander outside
<Azelphur> popey: did you get my message the other day about GameQ? :)
<popey> yes
 * AlanBell gets ready to press "decline"
<Azelphur> cool :p
<popey> ooo it says online
 * popey calls AlanBell 
 * TheOpenSourcerer notes popey keeps "wandering outside" to make calls. Enjoying the fine weather then popey?
<popey> pub lunch âº
<popey> crabbies is perfick in this weather
<popey> "call failed"
<davmor2> bigcalm: sorry all hell broke out at least 4 if I can get some more then extras
<bigcalm> No worries :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> sheesh: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsofts-samsung-android-patent-troll-win/9634
<chrisccoulson> popey - it will be shipped in natty-security at some point
<reaper4334> anyone know of a ubuntu-specific guide for making a custom boot splash for plymouth? I found a few pages but not a ubuntu specific one
<TheOpenSourcerer> reaper4334: IIRC I think directhex did one of these...
<directhex> nah, mine was for grub
<TheOpenSourcerer> bah - sorry
<reaper4334> shame :( lol
<popey> thanks chrisccoulson
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, Utterly dumbfounded by the Microsoft Patent trolling... Worst thing is the more companies that accept this, this more flaky Linux looks... :(
<ali1234> linux already looks incredibly flaky
<ali1234> thanks to intel and LF
<DJones> The Kindle Fire looks to be an interesting price at Â£130, although I'd be a wary of how much its locked down to Amazon software
<popey> yeah, i expect people will start hacking it quickly
<popey> to get stock android on it
<popey> probably come with an AUP that says you cant :D
<DJones> Heh, if stock android can be installed, must admit I'll be tempted by one
<ali1234> kindle fire?
<ali1234> is that their new tablet?
<DJones> or at least have access to the android market rather than just the amazon market place
<DJones> ali1234: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15096655
<ali1234> it's gonna suck you know that right?
<popey> amazon.com
<DJones> Halfway between an ebook reader & a tablet
<popey> has the full line up
<ali1234> how is it half way?
<popey> smaller than an ipad
<ali1234> in terms of size?
<popey> yeah
<popey> 8 hours battery (claimed)
<popey> (wifi off)
<ali1234> that's awful
<popey> yeah, not great.
<DJones> ali1234: A heavily customised version of android and probably more locked down to amazon apps
<ali1234> i would much rather have a kindle
<ali1234> DJones: yeah and it will have crap hardware specs, no more than you need to render an ebook
<ali1234> and due to that it will probably be using some cheap and cheerful chinese soc
<ali1234> that has no drivers
<popey> the specs dont look bad
<popey> it's a blackberry play AIUI
<popey> qualcom used that as the base fror it
<popey> *for
<popey> not qualcom
<popey> Quanta
<ali1234> never heard of them...
<popey> far eastern company that make most laptops
<DJones> Dual core processor, TI OMAP4 (if that means anything)
<ali1234> anyway i'd rather have a kindle even though they crash all the time
<daubers> New kindle is now available on the uk site. Quite tempting at Â£89
<DJones> New cheaper kindles seem good value
<ali1234> OMAP4? that's actually not too bad
<popey> Quanta made the OLPC
<ali1234> bit slow but all open drivers except for the 3d stuff
<HippyChick> trains take forever *groan*
<Laney> forever, that's a long time
<gord> almost as long as the week after next
<HippyChick> well ive been sat here since about 4
<HippyChick> train comes at 5.43
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<HippyChick> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> helo HippyChick
<HippyChick> hmm, ive jsut realised ive left my coat in the shop i was working at
<HippyChick> bugger
<popey> oops
<MartijnVdS> Ooh.. wonder I got home
<MartijnVdS> they found some WW2 bomb near the train station
<gord> huh, the new amazon tablet thing is fairly cheep
<hamitron> gord, how much?
<MartijnVdS> Â£80ish?
<hamitron> no way
<popey> 199 USD
<hamitron> ;/
<MartijnVdS> oh wait that's the new cheapest Kindle
<popey> yes
<gord> its not really a kindle
<gord> they are just using the name
<gord> its an android tablet
<HippyChick> MartijnVdS: where abouts is that
 * HippyChick is waiting for train
<popey> see amazon.com
<popey> not .co.uk
<MartijnVdS> HippyChick: Netherlands/Utrecht :)
<popey> its on the front page
 * brobostigon quantum teleports the train to HippyChick 
<HippyChick> MartijnVdS: oh goodie wont effect me then :)
<HippyChick> brobostigon: thanks, can you now teleport it home with me in it?
<HippyChick> :P
<gord> all i want is a colour e-ink device really
<brobostigon> HippyChick: lets leave that to quantum mechanical uncertainty.
<HazRPG> ooo new gingerbread update?
<HippyChick> brobostigon: ho-hum guess i will have to be patient and wait
<Laney> all i want is to not get screwed on every ebook purchase
<AlanBell> you can get home at an unknown speed, or go at a speed you want to an unknown location
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I got 2.3.6 on my N1 earlier this week
<brobostigon> HippyChick: that us uncertainty, yes. sorry.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I only just got it last night it seems
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :(
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=557 ;)
<brobostigon> AlanBell: you study quantum mechanics?
<HippyChick> i've never been too sure about e-books and e-readers
 * hamitron hates them
<popey> mmmm fondleslabs
<hamitron> I like trees, so buy books to have them closer to me
<AlanBell> brobostigon: I dabble, but only popular science level
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> what about unpopular science?
<HippyChick> hamitron: why not just buy trees? or are books the portable edition?
<AlanBell> popey: that is what "boffins" do
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ah, :). my specialism is time dilation, hobby only.
<hamitron> HippyChick, I have a nice collection of alive tree too
<hamitron> :)
<gord> i mostly use my kindle for flights and monthly magazine subscriptions
<HippyChick> wahoo \o/ train is delayed :(
 * brobostigon gets HippyChick a gin and tonic to make it more pleasant.
<TheOpenSourcerer> My son asked me yesterday - At absolute zero does time stop too?
<brobostigon> lol
<hamitron> to me, if I used ebooks, I wouldn't have bookshelves around the house.... which are a nice feature
 * HippyChick is thinking she just needs the gin
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.sixtysymbols.com/ -- ask a scientist :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> My answer was probably.
<popey> AlanBell: The key question. Do you have a lab-coat?
 * AlanBell thinks 20,000,000 rows in a MSSQL table is a sign of something not quite right going on.
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: good question!
<popey> hah
 * jacobw agrees with AlanBell 
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's what I said popey
<popey> nah
<popey> thats "a start" in SAP terms
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: psace-time only gets bent by speed and gravity, so, the answer is no.
<hamitron> bbl, deliveries
<brobostigon> space-time*
<popey> brobostigon: do you know of any clocks that work at absolute zero?
<AlanBell> popey: yeah, this is for a little Alfresco system running an intranet of maybe 1500 pages for 50 users
<brobostigon> popey: good question.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, but *nothing* moves at absolute zero. That is what it means absence of any movement at all by anything.
<popey> AlanBell: is it the table containing the list of people who hate the product?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4sOfGKEaxs
<popey> much as this conversation is entertaining.. I'm going home :D
 * MartijnVdS waves at popey 
<brobostigon> time is theory stops, within infinate speed and gravity, endof;
<brobostigon> in*
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: black hole! ;)
<HippyChick> popey: i'd love to be going home!
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good example, yes, :)
<popey> awww
<popey> HippyChick: shall i wait at my desk till your train comes?
<HippyChick> popey: no its fine, it should be here in a minute
 * AlanBell would like to go to the restaurant at the end of the universe
<HippyChick> im just having a bad day
<brobostigon> brb ,need beer, anyone else want one?
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes please brobostigon
<brobostigon> one minute.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Old Hookey if you have it
<HippyChick> train \o/
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<popey> yay
<popey> I can go home now!
<HippyChick> lol
<HippyChick> i wont get home until 9.30 though
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgyp94TZdqQ&NR=1 as well (hm, I think I may be confusing Alans)
 * brobostigon scp's TheOpenSourcerer some blacksheep.
<TheOpenSourcerer> ty brobostigon
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: :)
<MartijnVdS> Today in Geek History: Star Trek: The Next Generation 1st airs in 1987. Its 178 eps won 18 Emmys, 2 Hugos, 1 Peabody, & tea, Earl Grey, hot.
<jacobw> hmm blacksheep
<brobostigon> old perculier,
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2042703/The-Show-Bar-Warringtons-2-Bob-Tuesday-revellers-pass-gutter.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> I used to work for a firm in Warrington. Was a bit of a dump back then (mid - late 1980s).
 * brobostigon makes agreeable noises.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mind you. 20p a pint is rather attractive. More than the local women. ;-)
<RaycisCharles> Amstrad?
<RaycisCharles> TheOpenSourcerer = Alan Sugar's beard
<directhex> urgh i have a headache
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm off to cook dinner. laterz all.
<brobostigon> o/
<HippyChick> mmmm food
 * HippyChick is happy that 11.10 will fix her sd card
<HippyChick> win \o/
<jacobw> how do you know?
<HippyChick> oly already updated to it and it fixed it on his
<HippyChick> so unless they do somthing to break  it in the next couple of weeks....
<gord> well, final freeze is tomorrow
<Daviey> freeze smeaze.
<AlanBell> does apport get turned off at final freeze?
<davmor2> gord: I no longer believe the word freeze applies to any ubuntu project :P
<Daviey> AlanBell: I don't believe anybody has done the upload yet.. but it will be done soon.  kerneloops has already been disabled.
<Daviey> ah, the upload hasn't been accepted yet
<jacobw> right, i have big question.
<jacobw> i've never seen star trek before, i want to watch it
<jacobw> where do i start?
<AlanBell> jacobw: start with one of the films
<brobostigon> definatly, some of the shakepearian episodes within The next generation, with patrick stewert.
<jacobw> i have in fact seen the jj abrahams film
<brobostigon> :'(
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh yeah I do go on there from time to time :P
<brobostigon> that is no star trek film.
<brobostigon> ST 11, sucks balls,
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: hm?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: xda site link you sent to N1 section ^_^
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: sorry, was on an hour long phone call with my dad ^_^
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ah :)
<HippyChick> which one is 11?
<MartijnVdS> HippyChick: Star Trek 11? The newest one :)
<MartijnVdS> HippyChick: with all the hip young actors
<MartijnVdS> and loads of lens flare :)
<brobostigon> jacobw: a good started is, voyage home, and first contactm is we are talking about films as AlanBell suggested,
<HazRPG> heh yeah was just about to say that :P, MartijnVdS beat me to :P
<HippyChick> ooh withh the hot guy from heroes in?
<AlanBell> first contact, then you can watch the Enterprise series
 * HippyChick is currently watching enterprise
<HazRPG> Enterprise \o/
<brobostigon> continuity, :'(
<HazRPG> recently watched Star Wars...
 * brobostigon kicks enterprise up the bacside.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: HEATHEN!
<jacobw> i haven't seen star wars either
<AlanBell> then some original series stuff with kirk and spock
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (I have the blurays ;))
<HazRPG> people have hyped that film up to me for years... and well... I was totally unimpressed :/
<HazRPG> not the graphics, or anything like that... just the general story... totally unimpressed
<brobostigon> HazRPG: agreed, 11 was crap.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: If you like scifi, watch Moon
<AlanBell> then you can read porny kirk/spock fanfiction :)
<ali1234> star wars is not really sci fi
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: close enough
<HazRPG> ali1234: heh
<ali1234> not really
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's on one end of the spectrum of scifi :)
<jacobw> ok, so i should go 1996 first contact then 2001-2005 enterprise?
<ali1234> it just happens to be set in space
<AlanBell> ali1234: it is stories, set in a sci fi world
<ali1234> *story
<HazRPG> people have nagged me to watch Star Wars for years... and well, I didn't find it that interesting :/
<ali1234> it's basically a revenge western
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you're confusing "scifi" with "hard scifi"
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I shall have to check that out :)
<brobostigon> jacobw: no, dont watch enterprise, continuitly, it isnt accurate.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Have you seen Eureka!? :o
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness
<jacobw> i think i should watch everything in chronological order
<HazRPG> jacobw: :o you've not seen startrek!?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: 4-5-6-1-2-3  you mean?
<HazRPG> I use to watch it religiously as a kid
<brobostigon> jacobw: start with the nimoy films, and then first contact,
<brobostigon> jacobw: ie, 2/3/4.
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: i mean the order in which they were made
<brobostigon> tOS/TNG/DS9/VOY
<ali1234> star trek is sci fi. but not the films
<jacobw> brobostigon: ok, the motion picture, ii, iii, iv, v, vi, first contact?
 * AlanBell likes the one with the whales
<brobostigon> jacobw: forget the motion picture, it is faul.
<brobostigon> AlanBell: voyage home, :)
<AlanBell> transparent aluminium \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "Star Trek IV: Free Willy"?
<ali1234> that whole "good/bad" thing is star trek movies is a lie. they're all bad
 * brobostigon hangs out in #memory-alpha, and edits said wiki, so if very trek nerdy.
<ali1234> brobostigon: have you tried 20q star trek edition? it's amazing :)
<MartijnVdS> Oh don't forget to watch Galaxy Quest
<brobostigon> ali1234: heard of, yes. tried, no.
<AlanBell> ali1234: no, *this* is bad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICbc8DpcX3w
<ali1234> shatner should just give it up and sing
<AlanBell> so bad that firefox just committed suicide whilst playing it
<ali1234> they could just autotune it
<ali1234> also this is far worse http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKKpPFTTROU
 * HippyChick dares not to click on links whilst on the train
<ali1234> it gets really bad at about 3:30
<jacobw> you shouldn't stream on train wifi
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: they should just improve train wifi then :P
<HippyChick> im on dongle not train wifi
 * jacobw upgrades to oneiric
<HippyChick> im upgrading at the weekend when the internet is apparently classed as off peak and i can download as much as i want without repocussions
<smittix> Does anyone have any idea what time AMD is supposed to release their 11.9 catalyst driver?
<jacobw> when AMD release their 11.9 catalyst driver ;)
<MartijnVdS> they have one more day.. :)
<jacobw> ha
<smittix> Was going off the anouncement that it would be here today. Windows version has been posted but not the linux version.
<smittix> jacobw: Really? I should have known.
<AlanBell> 22197100 rows transferred \o/
<Danawar2> Hey does any one know a guide i can follow that will allow me to build a simple website that has a database sat in the background?
<Azelphur> Danawar2: "sat in the background" ?
<Azelphur> Do you want a LAMP setup? (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP)
<Danawar2> Yee i could do a lamp set-up I forgot there are many guides for that
<Danawar2> When i mean sat in background i just mean so i can query it.
<Azelphur> sudo apt-get install tasksel && sudo tasksel install lamp-server
<Azelphur> ^ Magical superguide that does it all for you
<Danawar2> Never heard of tasksel
<Danawar2> I shall have a look at it now thanks!
<Azelphur> !tasksel | Danawar2
<lubotu3> Danawar2: Tasksel is a Debian/Ubuntu tool that installs multiple related packages as a co-ordinated "task" onto your system, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tasksel for more information. Use tasksel only to INSTALL tasks, not to remove them. It will remove every package listed within the removed task! see https://launchpad.net/bugs/574287
<Azelphur> :)
<Danawar2> :) Do you workl yet azelphur?
<Azelphur> Yep
<Azelphur> at least sort of, on and off \o/
<ali1234> why tasksel? what's wrong with metapackages??
<Azelphur> ali1234: ubuntu wiki says tasksel
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: namespace pollution -- tasks use their own namespace afaik
<Hippychick> evening
 * Hippychick is bored of being on train now :(
<bigcalm> Ello Hippychick
<bigcalm> Play minecraft?
<Hippychick> hmm whats minecraft?
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> !minecraft
<bigcalm> Shame
<Hippychick> lol
<smittix> yeah, bigcalm. What is minecraft?
<bigcalm> Minecraft is a wonderful game where allows you to do pretty much anything
<smittix> Is it that thing that steals hours from the day and makes you want to smack your monitor when you lose 40 Diamonds in a stupid sized cavern?
<bigcalm> 40?
<bigcalm> Lucky bugger
<smittix> Throughout the day I have lost over 200 Iron Ore and i dread to think how much Gold and Diamonds.
<bigcalm> From wikipedia: Minecraft is a sandbox game which allows players to build constructions out of textured cubes in a 3D world.
<smittix> Should of took a chest with me I suppose
<gord> its basically multi-player 3d microsoft paint
<bigcalm> Take logs with you
<bigcalm> Hah
<ali1234> cubes lol
<bigcalm> Still one of the better reviews of minecraft: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2680-Minecraft
<bigcalm> Sadly requires flash
<smittix> Hmm. Someone just got flamed for mentioning a different os in #fedora.
<smittix> How friendly.
<ali1234>  #fedora is full of weenies
<Hippychick> right, must go, need to conserve battery :/
<vazir> odin__: hi
<vazir> hi
 * popey tickles AlanBell with http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/happyhour.pdf
<popey> hoping it will get updated
<AlanBell> really, OK
<AlanBell> I only did that for the millbank fridge!
<popey> oh, ok, nvm
 * AlanBell fires up inkscape
<Daviey> AlanBell: nice
<bigcalm> AlanBell: you need to remove The Station from the happy hour list (it closed on Sunday)
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yeah, will do
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> No idea what our LUG are going to do now
<StevenR> bigcalm: drink another pub dry every so often?
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: find another pub?
<gord> build your own pub!
<bigcalm> The LUG met at a back room at the pub for free. I think they like their privacy rather than being 'on show' to other pub gowers
<bigcalm> goers
<mgdm> with... oh wait, the Bender from Futurama reference would be inappropriate
<bigcalm> Which is a shame
<TheOpenSourcerer> So I see Firefox 7.0 will be rather short lived then. 7.01 tomorrow probably
<mgdm> TheOpenSourcerer: security fault?
<TheOpenSourcerer> mozilla Bug 680802
<bigcalm> 7? Oh for flip
<lubotu3> Mozilla bug 680802 in Add-ons Manager "Upgrade Firefox when there is an add-on update waiting to be installed uninstalls the add-on" [Major,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680802
<StevenR> bigcalm: I like that arrangement "We promise to come in and regularly drink alot, please can we have a room?" "Sure"
<bigcalm> Yeah, you'd think that was a good ploy. Seems pubs are worried about insurance
<AlanBell> popey: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/happyhour.pdf
<FunnyGuy> hi
<StevenR> bigcalm: insurance?
<AlanBell> hi
<bigcalm> StevenR: against fires and disabled access and lots of other things that make handy unused back rooms unsuitable
<StevenR> bigcalm: ah. sadness. :(
<bigcalm> The Station had a room, upstairs with no fire exit and only one way in/out
<bigcalm> Very lucky to get to use it
<mgdm> There's a pub at home with a fully-fitted bar on the second floor as well as the ground floor one. They're not allowed to use it as there's only one entrance
<StevenR> mgdm: how much would it cost to get a second door?
<mgdm> StevenR: lots. Listed building, it'd need an external fire escape and there's nowhere really to put it, etc.
<StevenR> :(
<StevenR> the pub EdLUG used to use closed down too :(
<zleap> hello
<mgdm> StevenR: the Holyrood Tavern...?
<StevenR> mgdm: yeah. At least I heard that it closed
<mgdm> I heard similar
<mgdm> I've not been since 2005, though :)
<StevenR> not since 2006 me
<mgdm> I might take a wander over (I'm in Glasgow myself)
<bigcalm> Our LUG would be SLUG if it wasn't for Sydney
<bigcalm> Who has GLUG?
<mgdm> bigcalm: no, your lug would be SLUG if it wasn't for Sydney and Scotland :P
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> mgdm: and every other county beginning with S
<jacobw> Surrey
<AlanBell> bigcalm: Greater London LUG
<zleap> or somerset
<bigcalm> That would be Gllug
<AlanBell> it is
<AlanBell> close enough :)
<bigcalm> I asked who had Glug :P
<popey> bigcalm: i registered glug.org.uk
<jacobw> Gloucester
<zleap> yeah
<popey> in anticipation of LUGs wanting to be GNU/Linux User Groups
<zleap> sounds right for glug
<popey> glug.org.uk isnt gloucester
<jacobw> haha
<zleap> mind you the devon and cornwall lug has the same letters as for the washington DC lug :)
<popey> it goes to lug.org.uk
<jacobw> when i saw stallman, somebody asked a question and forgot the GNU/
<bigcalm> Apart from RMS, does anybody care that much to include GNU?
<zleap> we ended up changing the dclug to dcglug to include gnu, that was matt lee's idea,  who now works for RMS,   he did bring a mac to a lug meet once,
<TheOpenSourcerer> A site for your bookmarks - This chap has *every* curry recipe every on his site: http://www.greatcurryrecipes.net/ And it's updated regularly too.
<bigcalm> popey: gave in and ordered both the leather strap and the terrorwatch :)
<bigcalm> I'll have a watch for every day use and one for geek events :D
<popey> yay
<popey> zleap: matt lee tried to get all UK lugs to switch
<popey> he failed massively
<popey> most told him to get lost
<zleap> hmm
<popey> he wanted to set up a list of UK free software groups
<zleap> he managed it with US
<popey> the requirement was that you have to change your name
<popey> to get on the list
<zleap> ah
<popey> surrey said "okay"
<popey> matt pasted basically the gnu manifesto on their homepage (a wiki)
<popey> which made the site look like arse
<zleap> thing is we have try and er explain GNU which is not easy sometimes
<popey> so someone moved the chunky bits to a second page
<popey> this was enough for matt to get the hump and tell them they couldn't be listed
<popey> this is one of the very many reasons I have very little time for the FSF
<popey> stunts like that do them no favours
<bigcalm> Well meaning but miss guided
<zleap> yeah
<mgdm> I was a member for a while, but got scunnered with some of their stunts
<TheOpenSourcerer> who is miss guided?
<zleap> so is he still working for the FSF
<zleap> TheOpenSourcerer, misguided i guess
<mgdm> I seem to remember the "everyone go and book up all the tech support slots at the Apple store" thing was the one which made me realise they live on a different planet to most of us
<TheOpenSourcerer> That was a (supposedly) funny and rhetorical question zleap but clearly it failed on both counts.
<zleap> oh sorry
<popey> mgdm: http://popey.com/blog/2008/07/28/Demented_by_Design/
<popey> :D
<zleap> i remember him tryingto say thast if you can't do something using free software you should not do it at all,
<mgdm> popey: Oh yes, you even link to my blog :)
<ali1234> asking questions you already know the answer to is called rhetoric
<zleap> rather than resorting to non free software
<ali1234> what is currently bugging me is why so many people want free software to become popular
<mgdm> popey: hah, I love the ethernet cable thing
<ali1234> personally i don't give a damn if joe public uses free software or not, if they can't contribute anything
<popey> that was matt lee too
<mgdm> popey: reinforces my "different planet" thought
<popey> in #lugradio
<mgdm> Figured
<popey> :D
<ali1234> and, if you can't fix bugs or write documentation, then you cannot contribute, imo
<zleap> i am not techie, however i try and contribute someting such as ideas, see the 12.04 thread
<ali1234> not in the "your not allowed to contribute" sense, but simply because nothing else is actually useful
<ali1234> ideas are cheap, everyone has ideas
<ali1234> free software is supposed to compete on merit
<ali1234> not on who has the most fanbois
 * popey runs after ali1234 with an autograph book
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wow! I have just been followed by a "Neon Hat Supplier" in Vancouver...
<ali1234> and that just doesn't work when the relatively small pool of developers is trying to satisfy the demands of hundreds of thousands of non-technical users
<jacobw> who wouldn't want a neon hat/
<zleap> any idea if skype stores a password locally on the hard disk
<ali1234> in the past i have heard the argument "well, if more people use linux, more companies will make drivers"
<ali1234> but this clearly isn't working
<jacobw> zleap: i doubt it would store in plaintext on local disk
<mgdm> In other news, the clingfilm trick for poaching eggs is ace - someone needs a medal for that
<ali1234> all we have is a bunch of buggy closed source drivers that cause even more problems than having no driver at all
<TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: But there are more drivers. Mostly stuff just works now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> mgdm: Prey tell. My wife likes poached eggs...
<zleap> ali1234, i guess the same idea is for games
<ali1234> yeah, something else that isn't working
<zleap> problem is when the do make games for LInxu then end up over priced so people don't buy em due to the price
<mgdm> TheOpenSourcerer: put some clingfilm over the top of a cup, with a dip in it, crack the egg into it, carefully gather the ends, chuck in boiling water
<mgdm> TheOpenSourcerer: considerably less faff than the other ways
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - Wifey has a twin cup thing that she sticks in the microwave. Seems to work OK.
<jacobw> zleap: http://blog.reactive-software.com/skype-password-recovery/
<mgdm> TheOpenSourcerer: Oh aye, those are handy. I don't have one though
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> it logs inon my netbook, but i wrote it down, just can't find it
<bigcalm> Silicon egg pods from Lakeland are good for poaching :)
<zleap> i need it to log in via my desktop too,
<bigcalm> Oh look, a new UUPC to listen to :D \o/
<diplo> evening all
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E16  Fates Warning - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/09/28/s04e16-fates-warning/
<bigcalm> Re backups - My parents' backup to my house and I backup to my parents' house. All with rdiff-backup
<AlanBell> rdiff-backup ftw
 * StevenR likes rsnapshot
<bigcalm> popey: with your dropbox snafu, you could have restored the files via the web interface
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> o/
<AlanBell> bigcalm: http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/ station removed
<daftykins> cor, power troubles in the channel islands
<daftykins> power cut the other day, two more tonight :S
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] US only? - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/09/us-only/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-29
<kaushal> Hi
<shauno> man, lots of love for popey on the -users ML
<popey> great isnt it?
<shauno> my solution is just to hold the d key in mutt until the whole folder is red.  wonder if it'd work as well for you :)
<popey> heh
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders how much of the new niceness in Gnome3.2 has made it into 11.10 http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.2/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some neat features in there.
<popey> yeah
<diplo> Morning all
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] didrocks Is a Legend - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/29/didrocks-is-a-legend/
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> hens shouldn't say cockadoodledoo
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah. Chicken Curry tonight then ;-)
<AlanBell> specky rogan josh
<popey> haha
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ta
<czajkowski> MORNING lovely peeps
<daubers> o/
<czajkowski> for the record ms office is a royal pain in the you know whatits
<MooDoo> user error ;)
<j0nr> morning
<j0nr> Any Gallery3 users?
<daubers> Anyone want to write my software docs for me
<shauno> I'll trade you?  process documenation for customer site visits sub-sahara ..
<daubers> popey: The show notes don't mention the backup conversation?
<daubers> shauno: Having dealt with people in dubai yesterday...... I think I'm ok
<shauno> :(  luckily I have a plan B.  involving pencils, nostrils, and y-fronts ..
<daubers> Wybble?
<shauno> the backup convo was interesting.  apparently someone completely forgot that their dropbox was versioned, and could be restored from previous on the website ;)
<bigcalm> That would be popey ;)
<popey> oops
 * popey edits
<JamesTait> Morning all!
<Hippychick> good morning
<Pernig> morning
<popey> fixed
<selinuxium> Morning all o/
 * daubers gives popey a silver star
<daubers> It would be gold, but you've over indented the bullet point :)
<AlanBell> http://lwn.net/Articles/460796/ czajkowski with a cattle prod /o\
<danfish> morning
<bigcalm> Run on sentences make my head hurt
<danfish> a lot of communitising going on in that quote
<AlanBell> possibly not czajkowski at her most shakesperian
<bigcalm> SOEing to the max!
<gord> don't taze me bro?
<AlanBell> http://www.zazzle.co.uk/i_fear_the_prod_tshirt-235671257489030494
<czajkowski> how about I cattle prod ye then eh
<daubers> sounds kinky
 * czajkowski peers at daubers no cake for you then 
<daubers> \o/ I have home made shortbread
<daubers> Not really allowed cake at the moment :(
<gord> i am very much allowed cake. please direct all potential daubers cake to me
<bigcalm> Mmmm, death
<bigcalm> I mean cake
<popey> \o/ we have cake
<popey> i just bought 10 cakes for the team
<czajkowski> I have mini jaffa cakes
<czajkowski> I want o be on popey team
<czajkowski> team popey
<Dave2> :o
<Dave2> I don't have cake :(
<popey> its a charity cake sale here at work
<popey> there's hundreds of them
<Dave2> Now I want cake.
<czajkowski> aww nice of you
 * bigcalm ponders a trip to the bakery
<gord> great, now i have to watch cake or death on youtube again
<bigcalm> \o/
<popey> fixed again daubers
 * daubers gives popey a gold star
<Dave2> I should never have switched to this window, now I have a strong desire for cake.
<Dave2> With no options for cake in the area.
<czajkowski> there is no shop?
<daubers> Dave2: The reason i'm not allowed cake is because new trousers are expensive :( Stupid fatty cake
<Dave2> Nope.
<Dave2> I work in a business park, no shops around.
<Dave2> I guess Microsoft or Oracle probably have something in one of their buildings, but I doubt I could get that far.
<bigcalm> You give me an image of men in suites pushing each other on swings
<Dave2> hah
<diplo> Dave2, MS and Oraclie have _awsome_ canteens!
<diplo> And cisco
<diplo> Guess you are in reading business park area then
<bigcalm> I wonder if Hippychick is still on that same train
<shauno> fb have free redbull.  we have a broken kettle. it's not quite the same :/
<Dave2> diplo: yup
<Dave2> Cisco aren't here though IIRC
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diplo> Nah, different park
<daubers> We have tesco down the road
<daubers> Dave2: You up on TV park?
<Dave2> Yup.
<diplo> They have 3 restaurants in one from memory, serving different countries dishes
<diplo> Bootiful food
 * daubers lives the other side of Reading from there
<Dave2> I guess we do have Tesco just down the road.
<Dave2> daubers: as do I
 * brobostigon spots pulseaudio 1.0, and wonders.
<daubers> Dave2: \o/ small world :)
<Dave2> (~3 miles from TVP, other side of Reading.)
<daubers> Google reckons I'm 6 miles away
<Dave2> Well, this is as per my bike computer.
<daubers> Heh :) Ocasionally I'm down that way for work in the next business park along
<Dave2> The one beginning with S?
<Dave2> (With the name I can't remember.)
<daubers> Dave2: yeah, suttons park. There's a DC down there I have some servers in
<Dave2> ah, that's the one
<brobostigon> 1info zenity
<brobostigon> !info zenity
<lubotu3> zenity (source: zenity): Display graphical dialog boxes from shell scripts. In component main, is optional. Version 2.32.1-0ubuntu1 (natty), package size 226 kB, installed size 1180 kB
<davmor2> Morning all
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: hello sweetie
<czajkowski> hello darling
<oimon> any news on when linux.com might be back up ? :(
<bigcalm> Ah, just the fella. Boss ok'd the workplace day thing and thinks it's a good idea. No idea if I'll get to put the train ticket in on expenses or not though :)
 * popey pokes BigRedS 
<davmor2> oimon: week next tuesday
<oimon> davmor2: orly?
<davmor2> oimon: no!
<czajkowski> bigcalm: whats that go to the office?
<davmor2> bigcalm: cool
<oimon> :(
<bigcalm> czajkowski: yep
<bigcalm> czajkowski: and no
<davmor2> czajkowski: we are organising a workspace day where LRL was at
<bigcalm> czajkowski: davmor2 will tell you all about it :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: cool
<czajkowski> the lighthouse
<czajkowski> soooooooooooooooooooooo nice a venue!
<bigcalm> I'm looking forward to getting out of the house
<bigcalm> And the Light House don't charge for this?
<czajkowski> *grin* https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/862162
<gord> considering making my own rss feed for these podcasts i have on my system here just to get banshee to list them =\
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 862162 in unity "DBO does not go to sleep when I ask him to" [Critical,Confirmed]
<bigcalm> Haha
<oimon> car in for MOT today :-S
<gord> kinda weird that the luggage directory in amazon.co.uk is under bags and accessories, under shoes
<dogmatic69> gord: not as weird as them selling that kindle for $79 in the US and Â£89 in the UK
<gord> actually that sounds fairly normal
<directhex> i think the $79 price is with adverts in the lock screens. don't think the UK model is subsidized by ads
<dogmatic69> its BS though
<oimon> sucktastic
<dogmatic69> not that i would ever buy a kindle
<directhex> kindle fire = super scary
<oimon> is anyone else allowed to use e-ink?
<davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmoDLyiQYKw hahaha
<directhex> oimon, there are several e-ink ebook readers. e.g. sony
<shauno> I think there's a few e-ink readers.  the kindle's just the only one that achieved any kind of clout
<gord> its... scary?
<directhex> davmor2, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmfHHLfbjNQ
<oimon> sucks about the lack of epub format on kindle
<gord> calibre converts just fine though
<MartijnVdS> Sucks about the prices of Kindle books in the Amazon store
<oimon> MartijnVdS: that too!
<MartijnVdS> sometimes more than the paper editions
<oimon> ridiculous
<gord> also found the prices to be fine too, i'm only buying stuff i'm going to read
<daubers> I've been far too tempted by the kindle now it's Â£89
<shauno> the fire sounds like it could be interesting, once someone's unlocked the android on them
<davmor2> directhex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4SCSGRVAQE&feature=related
<oimon> we need a bot to tell us the description of a youtube link
<Adriannom> hi.  just installed a dlink DGE-528T nic, but it's running at 100 instead of 1000.  can find other people with same problem but no solution.  any clues?
<Adriannom> ethtool says it's running at 100
<penguin42> Adriannom: Does ethtool say that it can do 1000 ?
<Adriannom> yup
<MartijnVdS> daubers: same here
<penguin42> Adriannom: What happens if you force it to 1G?
<Adriannom> penguin42, also tried ethtool -s eth1 speed 1000, but no change
<Adriannom> is that what you meant?
<penguin42> Adriannom: Yeh; anything in dmesg about it?
<Adriannom> nothing
<penguin42> tried a different cable?
<Adriannom> no actually, i'll try
<Adriannom> cat6 should work right?
<penguin42> nod
<Adriannom> penguin42, ok new cable, still 100
<penguin42> Adriannom: What's it plugged into?
<Adriannom> lol!
<Adriannom> the wrong switch
<Adriannom> they look identical
 * penguin42 giggles
 * Adriannom facepalm
<Adriannom> thanks penguin42
<penguin42> no problem - and remember, never turn your back on a pair of switches
<Adriannom> good advice penguin42!
<Adriannom> sneaky buggers
 * bigcalm returneth
<directhex> you can't set an interface to gigabit.
<directhex> the spec only allows speeds over 100 via autoneg
<directhex> see the 802.3 spec, 2008 annex
<MartijnVdS> doesn't mean hardware manufacturers followed the rules ;)
<penguin42> directhex: Oh that's nasty
<directhex> similarly there's no such thing as crossover cable for gigabit. it should justwork, with straight or crossover cable, without caring
<penguin42> yeh I do like that feature
<oimon> does that mean all gigabit devices are auto X-over?
<directhex> oimon, if they're fully gigabit-compliant, yes
<directhex> think it's called auto-MDIX
<oimon> coolio
<oimon> bah, just had an amazon market seller cancel my order due to "not enough stock"
<oimon> timewaster
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Kwabena Aning] Setting Up SBT on Ubuntu - http://blog.kaning.co.uk/archives/311
<directhex> amazon marketplace is a wretched hive of scum & vilainy
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Better than ebay, ime
<bigcalm> Anybody here bought from Mister Solutions? Looking at http://www.mister-solutions.co.uk/lawnmower-blade-balancer--sharpening-stone--piston-stop-4293-p.asp and wondering if I can get the same kit anywhere else
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: do you have a grinder?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: nope
<dogmatic69> bench or hand held
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: which is why I'm looking at something like this
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: neither
<dogmatic69> ah, well getting a grinder would be better, more uses
<bigcalm> I guess
 * dogmatic69 used to own a sharpening co ;)
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: AlanBell Either of you around I can pick your brains for a few minutes?
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: give a couple of mins.
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: a flap disk + http://www.screwfix.com/p/direct-power-pga115-900w-4-angle-grinder-230v/63218 will do a good job
<DJones> Cheers, I'll /msg a query, you may have a rough idea of an answer anyway, if not just say
<bigcalm> 20 quid for an angle grinder?
<bigcalm> Why did I always think they were expensive things?
<dogmatic69> well you get Â£200 + ones, I have that exact one and its good for home / diy stuff
<bigcalm> Fantastic :)
<dogmatic69> flap disk might set you back about Â£4 / Â£5 but will last long, get about a 180 grit one for the sharpening
<dogmatic69> #ubuntu-diy :D
<oimon> it seems that gift certificates are tied to amazon.co.uk
<dogmatic69> oimon: vs .com?
<oimon> maybe because i'm buying through a market seller
<oimon> on .com
<dogmatic69> .com and .co.uk are totally separate afaik
<oimon> i can't believe how hard it is to buy some things in the uk
<dogmatic69> oimon: what are you trying to buy?
<oimon> child safety things for our house.
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> ebay?
<oimon> ebay doesn't have the specific things
<oimon> i've had to ship from US
<oimon> over 20 quid for a few bits of sticky plastic
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone used Talend in anger?
<dogmatic69> :O
<dogmatic69> sticky plastic?
<oimon> dogmatic69: http://www.amazon.com/burglabar/dp/B00187284A
<dogmatic69> us company, maybe not so big here
<bigcalm> popey: attention!
<popey> ?
<Adriannom> anyone know if the wyse t50 is any good at video?
<bigcalm> popey: see other channel
<oimon> i brought 7 hard drives to work from home to do some secure wiping on them on a spare pc. 3/7 aren't recognised by BIOS...they were working when i left them !
<gord> did you walk under any giant magnets?
<gord> or get hit by lightning?
<oimon> gord: none of the above
<daubers> oimon: sata/scsi?
<oimon> IDE desktop drives
<oimon> thought i would have a clearout of 20GB drives lying around at home
<oimon> somehow their bones have rusted while in my drawer, wrapped in anti static bags
<daubers> Do they spin up? If you wobble the drive arund connected to the bus it should pull back to level
<bigcalm> Freecycled 4 machines at the weekend. Pulled out 7 pata drives from one of them :o
<oimon> daubers: some do spin up, and have had varying success
<daubers> If they don't spin up, I'd expect them to have died :)
<gord> i want another drive for my raid setup, but purely because i have an empty bay... feels... wrong
<daubers> If they've been in a drawer/cupboard for a while then the grease and stuff on the bearings may have set
<daubers> Seen that before
<oimon> seems that archiving data onto disks isn't a good idea.
<daubers> HDD's don't like being left alone for long periods
<oimon> yeah
<daubers> oimon: Only a good idea if they're part of a raid and constantly powered
<oimon> found 2 buffalo NAS things at work and both had failed
<daubers> They're like living breathing beings. Have to feed them and look after them or they die and you feel guilty :(
<oimon> daubers: also, "Researchers found that magnetic pulses directed at a certain part of the frontal cortex affected whether people were more willing to fib, or more likely to tell the truth"
<oimon> magnets break humans too
<daubers> oimon: Also useful for making froggies fly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1vyB-O5i6E
<penguin42> randomly tweaking with the brain with TMS can't be good
<oimon> s/TMS/RMS/
<penguin42> ?
<daubers> oimon: Isn't that banned under the geneva convention for being some kind of biological weapon?
<daubers> s/that/he
<oimon> i wonder if gnome3.2 still doesn't have the minimise button :-\
<Adriannom> argh, kernel panic :(
<Adriannom> new ram, worked ok for a few hours then x went into safe mode suddenly.  rebooted and kernel panic along with "error probing smb1".  rebooted a couple of times and it changed to a screen full of errors including stuff like "bad area nosemaphore".  should i just send em back or is there something i can try?
<AlanBell> Adriannom: tell it to take deep breaths and make it a cup of tea
<Adriannom> i don't think it can hear me :(
<Adriannom> poor thing must be in shock
<oimon> Adriannom: memtest
<daubers> So the python ldap bindings seem to be quite nice
<daubers> and using those I seem to be able to avoid using stupid stupid ldiffs
<Adriannom> oimon, can't even boot
<Adriannom> i guess i could try cleaning the contacts
<oimon> memtest runs from a ubuntu live usb stick
<daubers> Adriannom: memtest is another utility that's on the livecd, doesn't boot to a linux desktop to run
<daubers> !memtest
<Adriannom> gotcha
<daubers> hmmm... nofactoid
<oimon> !memtest86
<Adriannom> booting an ubuntu livecd anyway
<Adriannom> oh... it died
<oimon> memtest is on the grub menu before ubuntu boots
<diplo> daubers, Really interested in playing with ldap, so if you need any testers when you get to that point
<diplo> <--
<Adriannom> ok, i can get to "boot:" but i can't view any of the help menus to find out what to do cause it dies
<Adriannom> ok so it's as easy as typing "memtest", yay for trial and error
<Adriannom> 100k errors already :(
<popey> thats broken then
<Adriannom> so i take out all but one ram and add, test, add, test until i find the broken ones?
<Adriannom> or is there some indicator to which ones are bad?
<oimon> play swapsies and always remove the power cable from the PC before touching components
<Adriannom> i tend to leave the power cable in so i can touch something grounded...
<Adriannom> am i dicing with death? :o
<Adriannom> argh, gotta take vid card out every time i swap any ram :/
<oimon> Adriannom: umm do you power it off at the wall?
<Adriannom> ram too close
<Adriannom> oimon, um, no...  ;o i guess i'll make it a new habit
<oimon> current continues to pass through the motherboard even if the PC power switch is off
<oimon> making it highly probable that you will fry any components/motherboard unless the power supply is turned off at the wall
<oimon> i forgot to do this once on my brothers PC and fried the mobo, had to buy him a new one. after that i always removed the power cable
<Adriannom> :o cheers for the tip oimon
 * penguin42 plays with Fold.it
<oimon> my car needs extra Â£200 of work doing on top of the service+MOT charges..:(
<diplo> :(
<oimon> brakes always wear out on ford focus
<diplo> I'm due a major breakage soon, can't afford it so will have to go without a car when it happens
<diplo> Kids will need to elarn to walk, and enjoy riding on buses :)
<Monsterwizard> hello
<Adriannom>  found the little bugger, thanks guys
<Adriannom> :)
<directhex> oimon, my biggest fear is taking my car for a service and being told "your batteries are shot, you need a replacement set"
<Laney> diplo: cycling is a fine way to get around
<directhex> oh, they've dropped the price on batteries to only Â£800 plus vat
<diplo> Laney, 3 year old and a 5 year old
<diplo> Skills are still slightly lacking :/
<diplo> A small lottery win tomorrow would be nice though
<oimon> directhex: batteries? what, remote controlled car?
<directhex> prius
<oimon> ah, lol
<Laney> yeah, kids can learn!
<oimon> my 1yr old managed to do ctrl-minus on wifey's facebook page today so the text was miniscule
<diplo> heh, only my 5 year old allowed on the lappy on his own
<diplo> 3 year old has to have me close
<diplo> Don't trust him quite enough yet
<diplo> :P
<oimon> my boy knows how to replay a video on youtube
<oimon> and unpause it
<bigcalm> ali1234: ping
<oimon> my sprog on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18b7lD-3ywk
<diplo> Also XBMC is my eldests new fave toy, come down in the morning.. he has powered the revo on and found kids films and put one on
<diplo> heh, nice
<diplo> D820 ?
<oimon> D630
<oimon> intel gfx
<oimon> he prefers the touchpad though
<diplo> :)
<shauno> I found a shop that still sells null modem cables \o/  mildly shocked
<popey> maplin?
<oimon> my house?
<popey> o_O
<shauno> yeah  (so I'm also broke)
<popey> i haven't used a null modem cable for about 3 years
<AlanBell> when I was a lad you got some wires, plugs and a soldering iron
<popey> when i updated the firmware on my hummy
<shauno> AlanBell: but you still had to buy valves when they burnt out
<oimon> anyone going to floss uk unconference in machnester?http://www.flossuk.org/Events/Unconference2011
<bigcalm> o.O
<westbrookj> hey guys i just made the switch to Linux and had a question  about moving things around such as the quick launch slide bar (just for a start) i have been looking for the last few hours online and didnt really come across much is there a program i can get like compiz config or is this kind of thing more or less just coding
 * TheOpenSourcerer finds it funny that AlanBell can say "when I was a lad..."
 * TheOpenSourcerer needs to go and get changed/ready for Digital Surrey.
<shauno> I grew up 'up north', so it always sounds completely fake  if it's not "when I _were_ a lad .."
<shauno> westbrookj: I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the launch bar is movable (yet?)
<bigcalm> I swear this is the wrong time of year for 26C
<westbrookj> ahh that could be why i cant find anything on it :P
<gord> woo, we're doing final release of unity
<AlanBell> the unity launcher is on the left of the primary monitor
<oimon> bigcalm: don't complain...with energy price rises, i want my heating to stay off until mid october!
<bigcalm> oimon: just put on another jumper
<oimon> i'm ok...missis+sprog
<oimon> and small doggy
<oimon> all get cold
<shauno> oh that's nifty.  ping will actually let me specify eth0  *rubs hands together*
<bigcalm> Grrr. Last.fm is still cutting out after playing for a while (in the middle of tracks). What can I blame? Flash? Bandwidth?
<hamitron> bigcalm, cheap equipment and poor admin at your isp
<hamitron> ;)
<bigcalm> That's VirginMedia
<davmor2> bigcalm: you can only blame VM if you can prove it :D
<hamitron> that isn't fair
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I blame MS for most things
<hamitron> ;)
<bigcalm> I'd rather not blame anybody and have things just work
<davmor2> hamitron: I think you'll find most things are Apples faults nowadays ;)
<hamitron> yeh :/
<bigcalm> last.fm used to work well on linux. I bet recent updates are causing sillyness
<hamitron> davmor2, indeed, but I have not got an apple device to lay blame :/
<davmor2> bigcalm: but that's the easy way and it means you have nothing to moan at :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<hamitron> nothing to moan about can actually be really frustrating I've found :/
 * czajkowski pokes davmor2 
 * davmor2 hugs czajkowski and gives her a biccy
<czajkowski> careful I could eat fingers am so hungry
<hamitron> why did you have to mention food? :/
<czajkowski> food
<czajkowski> I want either  aspag bol
<czajkowski> or a carbonara
<czajkowski> or an omplette
<czajkowski> ohh roast chicken
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> I'm kinda hungry
 * AlanBell has a chicken you can roast
 * AlanBell wonders if chickens can go through gender reassignment surgery
<hamitron> oh my
<hamitron> just been called.... my meat pie is ready
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> I'd imagine it's much cheaper to buy the intender gender?  my mother obtained a cockrel by asking nicely recently
<hamitron> bbl o/
<AlanBell> shauno: they are more expensive when they are older, we got young ones this time (just off the heat lamp), which is cheaper and interesting than point of lay poullets, but there is a risk that they might be little boy chickens
<AlanBell> specky has a couple of days left to shut up and lay an egg
<shauno> ah.  n oI know she was specifically looking for a big boy to look after the gals.  She's in Alaska, so there's a very active foodchain at work
<shauno> (I understand eagles have eaten more of her birds than she has)
<shauno> eagles being the primary problem because they're on a worryingly short list of things she's not meant to shoot :/
<Myrtti> whatcha recon, is toast and creamy mushroom sauce from selfpicked porcino mushroom fit for tea?
<Myrtti> let's try
<gord> just the words instantly made me hungry, so i would assume so
<Myrtti> smells divine
<Myrtti> I'll upload a picture for you to drool on
<Myrtti> oops, dropped some on my phone
<Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/6195783856/
<Myrtti> omnomnomnom.
<Laney> does lidl do decent meat for bbqing?
<davmor2> Laney: Asda does
<Myrtti> Laney: "they do in Finland"
<Laney> i am only going past a lidl on the way to my destination
<Laney> there is a coop a short distance the other way though, so i'm wondering if i should just skip the lidl step
<Myrtti> probably, if I remember what the selection in UK was like
<dwatkins> Lidl might not be the best place for quality meat, depends on the country.
<nu2linux> hey guys i just installed linux for the first time today is there a way to force a 32 bit installation on a 64bit version?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: The local butcher tends to be one of the best places to get quality meat
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: especially if you invite him to the bbq party :P
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I totally agree, I've started shopping at butchers' shops in preference to supermarkets - also I plan on checking out the local farmers' market on the weekend.
<dwatkins> lol
<dwatkins> nu2linux: yeah, just download the 32-bit installation instead
<hamitron> nu2linux, it should be a different cd image
<hamitron> beat me to it
<hamitron> :/
 * dwatkins high-fives hamitron 
<dwatkins> great minds :)
<hamitron> :)
<nu2linux> trying to install adobe air and would like to keep the 64bit install of ubuntu
<nu2linux> sorry i asked that question backwards lol
<nu2linux> just as a heads up i did finally find a fix for the adobe air issue. in a sense you unpack the .deb change the parameters and then repack it and run it
<shauno> odd phonecall with my isp :/  they finished up trying to sell me their digital phone package
<shauno> they just agreed to send someone out next thursday to find out why I have 60%+ packet loss.  putting a phone on that would be chocolate fireguard territory :/
<hamitron> haha, follow the script shauno!  ;)
<shauno> was a funny conversation.  they asked me to use their own speed test instead of speedtest.net.  so I did, and it timed out trying to reach upc.ie
<shauno> altho they did to better than the isp I had in the states.  they needed me to reboot a VM just so they could hear the XP chimes for the warm & fuzzies
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> charter-mi was the funniest isp I ever had.  they'd frequently spend 20 minutes blaming my computer, before mentioning that my service area had a city-wide outage
<shauno> best method with them was to call them before they opened in the morning, because the message on their voicemail was usually more up to date than the monkeys that answered the phones
<shauno> anyhow .. </rant>
<shauno> I am curious how they could tell me how many devices were attached to my line tho
<hamitron> proxy ftw
<shauno> they said the history data showed two devices, but they currently weren't seeing any
<shauno> my normal 'two devices' is closer to 7, but with a debian box playing firewall up front.  and 'not seeing any' was my laptop connected straight to the modem
<shauno> so I'm rather mystified as to how they think they're measuring them
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<Azelphur> Anyone know of a site I can use to put a bounty on adding features to open source projects? :D
<Monotoko> Azelphur, you can usually put them on the projects website... it depends how organized they are really :P
<Azelphur> there's no forum or anything, besides the irc channel which isn't helpful
<Azelphur> guess I'll just stick with the IRC channel for now haha
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Video of the Week: Show me where your noms at - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/09/video-of-the-week-show-me-where-your-noms-at/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-09-30
<ali1234> what's the deal with this guy driving his 4x4 up snowdon?
<ali1234> i mean why leave it up there
<ali1234> why not just drive it back down before anyone even notices
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Get Your App In Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/29/get-your-app-in-ubuntu/
<ball> He left a quad up there?
<ball> ...or a landrover?
 * ball isn't sure what a 4x4 is
<ali1234> a landrover yes
<ali1234> but not a landrover, a different one
<Adriannom> lo
<Adriannom> just upgraded to natty.  problems.  apt-get-install nfs-common returns "Errors were encountered while processing:nfs-common".
<Adriannom> *reinstalled with natty
<Adriannom> bizarrely, just before the error it takes me to ctrl-alt-f1 where there's a screen of errors
<Adriannom> not had that happen before, is that new? :s
<Adriannom> i thought it was a kernel panic at first
<Adriannom> ah yeah, probably the wrong time to ask questions in a uk channel :|
<Adriannom> i'm beginning to think that natty isn't so much of an upgrade, more a test of endurance
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> morning AlanBell
<AlanBell> Pendulum: happy birthday
 * AlanBell looks forward to an evening of curry
 * AlanBell wants an SSD in this laptop
<diplo> Morning
<daubers> Morning
<popey> Morning all!
<daubers> o/
<MartijnVdS> \o
<daubers> Last day of work for 2 weeks today \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all - A lovely Friday morning only shattered by Mrs TheOpenSourcerer screaming at the kids for 20mins ;-)
 * daubers converts all of his OU guides pdf's to mp3's using espeak
<oimon> developer.ubuntu.com "Ubuntu is the third most popular operating system in the world." - really?
<popey> they dont reveal who they asked :D
<popey> ask me, go on.
<oimon> does android count
<popey> "most popular" is very wooly
<oimon> maybe most popular desktop OS
<oimon> 3rd
<popey> i think you're thinking numbers of installs?
<oimon> yep
<popey> it doesnt say that âº
<oimon> it doesn't say anything :)
<popey> well indeed
<oimon> :-\
<Laney> that site also barely mentions free software
<bigcalm> Good morning peeoples :)
<popey> wheeeeee
<bigcalm> popey: fun, isn't it?
<danfish> I never know when there's a netsplit - turned off a load of stuff in irssi and can't remember how to selectively re-enable
<popey> you have stuff on ignore?
<popey> type /ignore to see what you're ignoring
<popey> then /unignore N (where N is the number next to the thing you're ignoring)
<oimon> danfish: i enabled a load of pidgin extras that turn off joins too
<bigcalm> Aww, the mono font hasn't come though update manager yet
<gord> danfish, irssi has a setting to hide netsplits, hide_netsplit_quits
<popey> handy
<gord> i used to use it back in the irssi days
<gord> good stuff
<Daviey> "back in the day"
<danfish> gord: tx
<Daviey> when i were a lad, these here ircd's were all forest.
<selinuxium> Morning Daviey  o/
<czajkowski> aloha
<selinuxium> Hi all o/
<selinuxium> hi czajkowski :) #
<czajkowski> hows everyone?
<Daviey> hey selinuxium
<selinuxium> Daviey, You still got the thumb drive of mine? lol  (seriously, no issues fella)
<Daviey> Hmm.
<Daviey> It did go into an envelope.
<Daviey> erk.
<bigcalm> Out of context is amusing
<Daviey> bigcalm: 1), that will teach you to reboot.  2) I'm not sure the context was family friendly.
<bigcalm> Daviey: you're just making it worse now :P
<Daviey> :)
<Daviey> Wouldn't it be really good if Oneiric wasn't released for another month.
<bigcalm> Well, I doubt I'll upgrade for at least a month. Hopefully with similar results
<bigcalm> Or did you just want an 11.11.11 release date?
<czajkowski> ohhh 11.11.11
<czajkowski> and  12.12.12
<czajkowski> seeing as we got 10.10.10
<czajkowski> should have changed all the releses to that
<bigcalm> Might make for better pr
<czajkowski> hindsight is a great thing
<bigcalm> If it were to release on 11.11.11, don't do it at 11am :(
<Daviey> czajkowski: nah, it messes with the cycle length too much
<popey> i dont think 11.11.11 is wise
<popey> isnt that armistice day?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> Hence 11am
<Daviey> ofc' PR is more importiant than having enough time to get stuff done.
<popey> you worry too much
<bigcalm> Hehe
<Daviey> 329 upgraded, 36 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
<Daviey> Need to get 379 MB of archives.
<popey> yeah, its been quite intense this cycle
<popey> love it
<Daviey> Glad to see we are stablisng.
<czajkowski> armistice day
<czajkowski> *googles*
<bigcalm> Really?
<bigcalm> My goodness
<Daviey> czajkowski: You are kidding, right?
<bigcalm> A min silence at 11am on 11th November each year
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<gord> unity has 84 bugs fix released yesterday :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<czajkowski> Daviey: nope sure how would I know that
<Daviey> gord: I know, i tried to review the mess of a diff. I gave up.
 * Daviey wonders what they teach kids at school these days.
<bigcalm> Eire were not involved in the great war, so no need to mark the end of it I guess
<Daviey> Oh rly.
<bigcalm> They weren't in ww2. I need to check on ww1
<brobostigon> wow, it is 19c already, :(
<Daviey> bigcalm: only 200K were involved, not that many i guess.
<czajkowski> Daviey: you know what april 24th means to the irish eh ?
<Daviey> :/
<Daviey> czajkowski: yes
<gord> brobostigon, last bit of warm of the year i think, enjoy it whilst it lasts :)
<gord> czajkowski, ireland celebrates the sixth day after gords birthday? weird holiday
<brobostigon> gord: i hope so. i dont enjoy it, because the heat messes with my eczema.
<bigcalm> Daviey: http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/worldwar1/a/ww1countriesalp.htm
<czajkowski> Daviey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proclamation_of_the_Irish_Republic
<brobostigon> !info libgweather-common
<lubotu3> libgweather-common (source: libgweather): GWeather common files. In component main, is extra. Version 2.30.3-1ubuntu1 (natty), package size 625 kB, installed size 3756 kB
<Daviey> bigcalm: and a bunch of those countries no longer exist, does that mean the residents of the area were not involved?
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> Daviey: I was just being specific about Eire
<Daviey> ah, ok :)
<bigcalm> Eire was also not in ww2 but NI was. There were [Eire] markers along the coast line to stop air invasion. But there were also numbers in each marker that the Allies knew about so they knew were they were along the coast.
<bigcalm> The things you learn from Coast :)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: Hayley is really getting into planning for her 40th b'day in Ireland. Would you recommend air or sea travel? Sea would be Holly Head to Dublin
 * AlanBell recommends going at some time czajkowski isn't travelling
<bigcalm> Hehe
<AlanBell> bigcalm: the fast ferry from hollyhead is quite fun, it is a giant jetboat
<JGJones> aye it is :)
<AlanBell> otherwise the overnight one from swansea is good
<JGJones> but depends on where you want to go in Ireland? If just in Dublin, I'll take the ferry.
<AlanBell> on the Julia
<czajkowski> I wouldnt recommend going to dublin for a holiday
<AlanBell> swansea-cork ferry, or fly to shannon
<czajkowski> bigcalm: head to shannon or cork
<czajkowski> and go Cork or galway
<czajkowski> prettier and down to kerry
<bigcalm> We will be travelling around, mostly in NI this time but starting in Eire
<bigcalm> Looking at a driving holiday. Haven't decided if to take my car or hire one there
<czajkowski> hmm always find it odd seeing NI and eire - it;s ireland dude :)
<AlanBell> 4 green fields
<jpds> It's all part of the EU, dude.
<bigcalm> Tell that to my wallet :(
<czajkowski> yeah same way I find it kinda offensive I guess if people ask me am I from the south
<czajkowski> I'm from ireland
<czajkowski> only people in NI will ever say they are from NI
<directhex> on second thoughts, let us not go to northern ireland. it is a silly place.
<czajkowski> I went once and never again was rather scared and didn't feel safe at all
<AlanBell> I have been there quite a few times
<AlanBell> some bits were odd, where they painted the kerbs red white and blue
<czajkowski> yes but yo've an english accent
<czajkowski> I ended up in areas for me with an irish accent was not safe or smart
<czajkowski> didn't like it will never go up there again till we're joined as one .
<dwatkins> I really hope things calm down there soon.
<directhex> never happen.
<directhex> too many people are invested in it remaining how it is
<bigcalm> It's nice to dream
<dwatkins> it saddens me to think of the people who have been victims of a centuries-old battle
<directhex> dwatkins, http://images.wikia.com/babylon5/images/c/c2/DraziPurpleGreen01.jpg
 * popey is filling the pool
<popey> going to be a wet weekend at popey towers
<popey> is flash broken (aside from usual) in 11.10?
<popey> in chrome
<czajkowski> popey:  nice for the kids
<czajkowski> hope it stays as nice
<bigcalm> popey: I thought you'd ditched flash?
<Mez> pop	not for me as of yesterday's upgrade...
<Mez> but then I'm on canary.
<popey> I'll put the heater on so it's nice and warmy inside
<dwatkins> directhex: indeed, Babylon 5 had many parallels to 20th century Earth
 * popey redownloads
<czajkowski> directhex: dwatkins I hope one day the island can be reunited as one. it should be. but wiht that comes the extra burden of health care taxes, education, and we do things very differently in ireland.
<Mez> popey: it should have installed an apt-get source for you ... are you using chrome-stabele?
<Mez> (and it may have broken since yesterday - lemme do an upgrade)
<popey> 14.0.835
<popey> but its not chrome thats broken
<popey> its flash
<Laney> chromium in general is broken for me, sadly
<Mez> pop	I thought chrome had it's own flash thing built in?
<dwatkins> broken how, popey?
<popey> browser claims it has no flash
<Laney> https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=91962
<czajkowski> I've to keep killing chrome on 11.10
<czajkowski> it keeps hanging
<popey> fixed by reinstalling flashplugin-installer
<dwatkins> oh bah
<davmor2> morning all
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
 * davmor2 ^5's MooDoo 
<czajkowski> keeps dying as I use tweet deck so it just hangs
<davmor2> czajkowski: run top in terminal I'd imagine that something is use all your memory or all your cpu
<czajkowski> davmor2: nope
<czajkowski> davmor2: onlyu thing is gwibber running at 18 even though I've not opened it as it just is not fast enough for real time tweeting of stuff as 5 min delay is just too slow
<davmor2> czajkowski: kill it the service still runs in the background even if you have it switched off,  check the startup apps and see if anything is listed in there for gwibber or gwibber service
<Mez> czajkowski: yeah, gwibber noms memories.
<czajkowski> davmor2: aye
<czajkowski> Mez: I knows
<Mez> czajkowski: though, apparently, in oneiric, compiz n oms the most.
<czajkowski> I get nautilis crashing
<czajkowski> a lot
<davmor2> Mez: 3.7 isn't that much
<davmor2> Mez: admittedly I have 3Gb in this box
<bigcalm> I re-install flash just to listen to some music on last.fm and it still breaks :(
<davmor2> Mez: approximately 111Meg
<BigRedS> bigcalm: why not just install lastfm?
<davmor2> bigcalm: is it a paid account?
<bigcalm> davmor2: no
<bigcalm> It works in windows just fine
<bigcalm> BigRedS: don't want to pay for another music service
<davmor2> bigcalm: install Rhythmbox and use the last.fm plugin :)
<bigcalm> Does it really work?
 * bigcalm plays
<BigRedS> bigcalm: you don't need to
<BigRedS> just apt-get install lastfm, then run lastfm and ask it for some music
<BigRedS> I've never paid lastfm
<bigcalm> Aha!
<bigcalm> I tried to listen to absolute80s
<bigcalm> And it did just the same thing
<bigcalm> Played for a while and then died
<bigcalm> I can blame flash and be sure of it!
<davmor2> bigcalm: lastfm and absolute radio both in Rhythmbox by default
<davmor2> hmmmmmmmmm rhythbox,  I remember the good old days when music just used to play
<bigcalm> Ooo, that seems to work now. Wonderful
<bigcalm> Thank you davmor2
 * bigcalm uninstalls flash again :D
<davmor2> hahaha
<davmor2> bigcalm: you can go to the other extreme and treat yourself to a dab radio and get most of the radio channels you can think of, like what I did :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I have a DAB radio in the kitchen
<bigcalm> I tend to leave it on 6 music
<davmor2> bigcalm: I leave it on absolute 80's :)
<bigcalm> I have a fairly good sound setup in my office. Don't want to have to have another poor speaker system to add on
<bigcalm> I tend to listen to absolute80s in my car via TuneIn Radio on my Nexus One
<bigcalm> Great station
<davmor2> bigcalm: there is an absolute 80's app hmmmmmm you know it makes sense :)
<bigcalm> Why would I need another app when TuneIn works
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> Coffee time!
<bigcalm> 2 hours since my last mug. I'm slipping
<bigcalm> czajkowski: you've been promoting a lot of apps recently on twitter. Are you being sponsored to do so? ;)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: nope
 * Mez bungs czajkowski a fiver
<czajkowski> I tweets stuff either A) I use or b) interesting
<Pendulum> AlanBell: thank you!
<czajkowski> I tweet redhat and ubuntu stuff, depends on what I like
<davmor2> bigcalm: I went straight for the official app so never had tunein
<AlanBell> Pendulum: is there cake with candles?
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> TuneIn gives you all of the DAB stations and then some I think
<bigcalm> I'm not too sure as I've not used it for anything other than 6 music and Absolute80s ;)
<shauno> I use tunein to listen to the world service.  that's my dirty little secret.
<Pendulum> AlanBell: there will be! and a fancy dinner out
<bigcalm> Yikes 12pm
<oimon> what's that program to install lots of applications on windows at once? sounds like nitin ?
<gord> anything advertised as free, will come with eight different spywares and toolbars ;)
 * czajkowski waves a packet of jammy dodgers in front of gord  :p
<bigcalm> oimon: http://ninite.com/
<oimon> \o/ thanks bigcalm
 * davmor2 nicks off with czajkowski dodger of jam
<bigcalm> Or you could download the Open Disc :)
<oimon> installing a win xp box/ubuntu dual boot for my bro
<oimon> just want a quick way to install some stuff
<gord> czajkowski, have a packet of digestives sitting on my desk :P
<zleap> nice
<czajkowski> gord: got a cuppa tea to dunk em in
<gord> czajkowski, yup
<gord> although out of tea now.. will need to go shopping
<davmor2> czajkowski, gord: I trump your biscuits with the best bottle of dandelion and burdock in the world oh and liquorice allsorts
<oimon> even cheapo d&b is still nice
<oimon> but i do like that fentimans stuff
<davmor2> czajkowski: man is no channel I'm on out there safe from you?
<oimon> wow that ninite thing just saved me 1/2 hour
<oimon> although not nearly as good as apt-get
<davmor2> oimon: Tis Fentimans that I have
<oimon> just noticed this: http://www.ulule.com/debian-handbook/?utm_campaign=project_1973&utm_source=ohso&utm_medium=widget1
<czajkowski> davmor2: I left the last channel
<davmor2> czajkowski: linaro now though ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: I don't suppose it helps that I'm on most channels the same as you :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: been there for a long time
<directhex> czajkowski, you're welcome to 'em. nobody outside NI cares about NI being part of the union. the people from NI might object to my analysis though
<shauno> heh, I'm not touching that one ;)
 * daubers does the happy dance
<dogmatic69> if files are chown'ed www-data:www-data, how can i make the user 'ubuntu' able to edit/delete them
<dogmatic69> without using sudo
<daubers> dogmatic69: Add the user ubuntu to the "www-data" group
<dogmatic69> im trying to do that
<dogmatic69> useradd -G www-data ubuntu
<dogmatic69> right?
<daubers> You'll also need to check that the files are group read/write
<daubers> dogmatic69: You'll need to restart any terminal sessions for that change to take effect
<dogmatic69> its www-data:www-data in ls -al
<dogmatic69> ah
<daubers> dogmatic69: The rwx part is more important for the second bit
<dogmatic69> its all drwxr-xr-x
<daubers> Yeah, so group members don't have write permissions
<AlanBell> chmod g+w
<dogmatic69> nice, thanks
<dogmatic69> now drwxrwxr-x 10 www-data www-data
<dogmatic69> still cant :/
<dogmatic69> ubuntu user is not in www-data
<daubers> dogmatic69: Have you restarted the terminal session since adding yourself to the group?
<dogmatic69> groups
<dogmatic69> ubuntu adm dialout cdrom floppy audio dip video plugdev admin
<dogmatic69> yep
<dogmatic69> i exit'ed and ssh'ed back in
<monster__> I just pwned a linux/unix session
<monster__> awesome
<dogmatic69> this is what im getting
<dogmatic69> useradd -G www-data ubuntu
<dogmatic69> useradd: user 'ubuntu' already exists
<MartijnVdS> adduser ubuntu www-data
<daubers> dogmatic69: Can you pastebin the contents of /etc/groups please?
<dogmatic69> daubers: no such file
<daubers> /etc/group even
<daubers> sorry
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: i think that was the one :)
<dogmatic69> yep, thanks MartijnVdS (again) :D
<daubers> dogmatic69: If yuo do "grep www-admin /etc/group" you can see who's in the group
<shauno> (www-data)
<MartijnVdS> Remember: you have to log out and back in for group changes to take effect
<daubers> shauno: Yeah... that :)
<Hippychick> wahoo, put popey into my google+ now i have somthing interesting to read in there :)
<shauno> I added a few hundred photographers, and it's now my constantly streaming distraction from work :)
 * daubers has cleaned out all his SD cards ready for holidaying!
<shauno> that's right, you're a free man for a couple of weeks ain't ya?  where you got planned?
<Laney> PHWOAR EET EEZ WELL 'OT
<czajkowski> http://www.bcs.org/content/ConWebDoc/41634  pass it onto any women you may know who might be interested in attending
<aptanet> does anyone know why ufw doesn't work properly from cron?
<popey> iphone mounting broken again in 11.10 with ios5 beta â¹
<daubers> popey: Using a beta with a beta and it's broken?
<MartijnVdS> And that's why you use Android phones
<daubers> shauno: Off to egypt on sunday \o/
<MartijnVdS> daubers: you're HazRPG?! :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Hmmmm?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: he's from there
<daubers> Ah, ok.
<aptanet> aha, I need something other than just the path to ufw itself, time to narrow things down
<gord> î¿ neat -_-
<gord> aww doesn't look so good in xchat
<bigcalm> Doesn't look at all in xchat
<gord> you need to be on an up to date 11.10 :P
<bigcalm> Or irssi :S
<bigcalm> Why would I want to do that? :P
<bigcalm> Might upgrade in November or December
<davmor2> gord: oh mono font
<bigcalm> _might_ upgrade my laptop in October
<bigcalm> Oh, yeah. I downloaded the mono font on my laptop. Doesn't seem to have made it to 10.10 or 11.04 though
<gord> its a great font to code in
<gord> going back to non ubuntu fonts to code in just feels wrong
<AlanBell> I have been using it for ages, I like it
<bigcalm> I've change the system font on the laptop to be it. It is indeed great
<davmor2> gord: hahaha
<davmor2> AlanBell: I was till it disappeared out of the ppa when it got added to the font family package
<gord> yeah been using it for at least a year, feels like forever ago, surprised it took this long
<Laney> xây âºunneat
<Laney> :P
<davmor2> gord: indeed but lets be fair it had to be right, all the devs will be using it most of the day
<gord> i can't tell the difference between now and when i first got it :P
<davmor2> gord: lots of really minor subtle tweaks and usage to make sure it was right before release
<bigcalm> There we go. Monospace installed for use in Eclipse
<bigcalm> Ubuntu monospace is a lot smaller than monospace
<bigcalm> How odd
<gord> yeah fonts are weird, whack it up a bit
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> how many women in the Ubuntu UK team actually in the UK ?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ^^
<AlanBell> totally depends on how you count who is in the team
<czajkowski> hmmm
<czajkowski> true
<czajkowski> you could say the same for people who joined the team, yet no longer live in the UK.
<AlanBell> there are about a thousand people in the mailing list and launchpad, no idea where most of them are or their genders
<AlanBell> oggcamp attendees are probably a fairly representative selection
<bigcalm> Wow
<Myrtti> and on the definition of living in uk
<AlanBell> yes indeed Myrtti :)
<bigcalm> Myrtti: join us!
<oimon> there were lots of women at oggcamp
<bigcalm> My Hayley wanted to come along, I didn't even have to ask her. But she doesn't have any interest in Ubuntu. Swings and roundabouts :)
<Myrtti> bigcalm: eventually... I do consider being more active in the uk loco than fi one
<czajkowski> yeah I guess just hard to judge is all
<czajkowski> Myrtti: you are too
<czajkowski> just be nice to get a rough idea of women in UK loco
<czajkowski> some of the women at oggcamp aren't in Ubuntu either
<Myrtti> indeed
<czajkowski> so while it was a great turn out
<bigcalm> I have to say that the lower case i looks a little odd in monospace
<czajkowski> doesn't actually give us an idea
<AlanBell> czajkowski: some of the men too had not much to do with ubuntu
<Myrtti> census
<AlanBell> czajkowski: so how would you count marianna?
<Myrtti> I suggested one for Meego in the spring
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye as it was oggcamp some were LO
<czajkowski> AlanBell: marianna, I consider her Ubuntu but I don't think she's in the UK team
<Myrtti> just to get a ballpark idea of the users
<czajkowski> not sure how many of millbank are on the team or the list tbh. I know some area
<czajkowski> Myrtti: exactly
<bigcalm> popey: how do LO and UUPC listening figures compare?
<czajkowski> rather than feeling like the only one always turning up :/ be kinda nice to know there are more over here
<AlanBell> turning up is a whole other issue
<czajkowski> http://pix.ie/czajkowski/1319568/size/720 4 aint so bad
<oimon> anyone tried the ubuntuone for windows?
<gord> worked okay last time i tried, but that was before the latest cool stuff
<davmor2> gord: why won't the app launcher appear over a fullscreen Firefox?
<ali1234> because it is incredibly buggy
<gord> davmor2, not sure :) but i would expect its because its got the fullscreen hint, would be rather annoying if your in a game for example and every time you try and click something on the left, the launcher came out
<ali1234> that actually happens
<ali1234> except you can't see it
<ali1234> but it still steals clicks from the game
<oimon> if i'm setting up ubuntu for a family of 5, what's the recommended way to setup 5 accounts but keep the non-default settings i've set up on the first account? do a cp -r /home/user1 /home/user2 etc?
<oimon> talking bout gnome settings on lucid
<Hippychick> popey, i envy you having a pool!!!
<ali1234> oimon: there was a question about that on ask ubuntu
<Azelphur> Hippychick: I have a huge pool :D
<oimon> ali1234: good idea :)
<davmor2> Hippychick: You should put a space in between l's and ! that looked so inappropriate for a minute :)
 * Azelphur lives a couple blocks away from the sea
<Hippychick> oops
<oimon> although people who just say /etc/skel aren't answering the question fully
<Hippychick> i dont have a pool :(
<Hippychick> though im hoping oly will let me go to the beach tomorrow
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/62927/how-do-i-set-the-default-icon-set-and-wallpaper-for-new-users
<oimon> ali1234: i'm gonna try just copying .gconf for the new users
<Myrtti> czajkowski: d'oh, of course I'll be flying to UK on Saturday :-<
<Myrtti> (re: email)
<oimon> :( installing windows and ubuntu side by side caused the lucid installer to resize the windows data partition without asking
<hamitron> you didn't do manual?
<oimon> i did the option that suggested side-by-side
<hamitron> :/
<oimon> obviously the wrong option :(
<oimon> i had left a 20gb partition for the ubunt
<hamitron> I've always done manual, so interesting to hear what happens
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I'm kind of picky how things are done
<oimon> yeah,
<Myrtti> aww, the good old Facebook Like-jacking...
<oimon> since it was a new install, i fogured this was the best time to best it
<oimon> /best/test
<hamitron> you gonna move the install to the partition you want now?
<hamitron> manually :D
<oimon> it's a nightmare
<oimon> i don't have time for this crap
<oimon> xp install already wasted most of the time
<zleap> hi
<joni> Hi there
<bigcalm> This isn't good
<popey> ?
<bigcalm> In the Ubuntu monospace font, space is tiny and not the same as a character
<BigRedS> that's not very monospace
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> I have a feeling my system isn't correct
<bigcalm> Things aren't feeling very mono at all
<bigcalm> Console is ok, it's Eclipse
<bigcalm> Doh
<sladen> bigcalm: has the 'm' got a shorter (raised) stem in the middle?
<BigRedS> Oh. Well you should be using vi then :)
<bigcalm> sladen: no :(
 * bigcalm kicks something
<MartijnVdS> oi, that's my PC!
<bigcalm> Soz :D
<kirrus> bigcalm: don't you mean vim?
<bigcalm> You tell Eclipse to use the system font. Instead it uses Ubuntu
<bigcalm> That's better
<bigcalm> *shakes fist at Eclipse*
<czajkowski> bigcalm: whinge at Daviey everyone else does
<bigcalm> czajkowski: that's his use, yes?
<gord> aww berlios.de is shutting down, sadface http://www.berlios.de/
<bigcalm> Goodness
<zleap> hi
<popey> HULLO!
<zleap> how are you /
<zleap> ?>
<zleap> just got a new printer and trying to get it to work with ubuntu
<ali1234> according to google my gmail is 2.7GB
<ali1234> so why is thunderbird using 9GB of disk space for the mail db?
<KrimZon> does thunderbird store the same email with different tags as separate emails in separate folders?
<bigcalm> Attachments as blobs?
<jacobw> KrimZon: i really hope not
<ali1234> also i installed gnome-shell on oneiric and now lightdm segfaults
<zleap>  think i messed cups up again as it insists i install a lpr driver before i try and install cups
<zleap> then theprinter install program says it can't fid a driver
<zleap> Printer 'Brother-MFC-J615W' requires the 'brlpdwrappermfcj615w' program but it is not currently installed.  Please install it before using this printer
<zleap> but I installed it
<brobostigon> ali1234: the issue might be, that here, gnome-shell/gnome3 required gdm3. i should try lightdm, and see. but that maybe why.
<ali1234> also unity no longer works
<ali1234> apparently i no longer have opengl support
<zleap> how do i view stored passwords in firefox ?
<brobostigon> ali1234: that would explain why gnome-shell wouldnt start.
<ali1234> gnome shell seems to work
<jacobw> why does gnome-shell require gdm3?
<ali1234> only unity and lightdm are now broken
<brobostigon> jacobw: here in debian sid/unstable, it installed both togather.
<ali1234> hmm this is exactly as retarded as i thought it would be
<bigcalm> zleap: Edit -> Preferences -> Security -> Saved Passwords...
<zleap> thanks
<bigcalm> You're welcome
<brobostigon> ali1234: elaborate please.
<zleap> ok i need to get the printer working now
<ali1234> brobostigon: gnome-shell combines the usability nightmare that is unity with the slapdash visual design of kde
<zleap> why is it saying i need to install the lpr driver for cups
<bigcalm> !lpr
<bigcalm> lpr is the system command used to push printing jobs to the queue
<bigcalm> CUPS makes use of it
<ali1234> it has the exact same nothing is ever in the same place twice" problem that unity expose has
<brobostigon> ali1234: unity has some interesting hid ideas, but not functionally fitty for my mind, kde just plain doesnt work, at all, in any way. gnome-shell is simply, logical. like gnome2, but evolved.
<ali1234> there is nothing logical about this
<ali1234> if it were logical, there would be a consistent way to switch to a specific window that was always the same
<zleap> so i have installed the lpr part of the driver from the brother site and installed the cups wrapper and now its saying there is a problem and suggess thats usually caused by missing dependancies,  i can't even run synaptic
<brobostigon> ali1234: the new alt-tab is miles better, sorting by workspacem then by app, then their windows. makes miles more sense.
<ali1234> alt-tab is a terrible design metaphore and it needs to die
<ali1234> "oh yeah just find your window in this list of every window on the system"
<zleap> super tab is good too
<brobostigon> ali1234: i like it,
<ali1234> the list is never in the same order so you can't go to the approximate place where your window is
<ali1234> you just have to go through every window, one at a time
<ali1234> this is a horrible way to manage windows
<brobostigon> ali1234: as i said, it is always sorted in a specific way, by workspace first.
<ali1234> expose is exactly the same, except instead of going through them one at a time, it just puts them all on the screen at the same time
<ali1234> once again, in a different arrangement every single time
<brobostigon> ali1234: like now for example. i have gnome-terminal open in workspace 1, and chromium open in the second. so gnome-terminal come first, and the  chromium.
<ali1234> i need a button for "give me the terminal window on the current workspace, or if there isn't one on the current workspace, make one"
<ali1234> opening 1 window on each workspace is pointless
<ali1234> all you've done is reimplement windows as workspaces
<ali1234> you might as well only have 1 workspace
<ali1234> the reason to use workspaces is so you can have a set of windows all on the screen at once
<ali1234> neither unity nor gnome shell understands this
<ali1234> kde does, but of course they take it too far the other way, with kde sessions and activities
<brobostigon> ali1234: i could have both open in the same workspace, and it would do the same thing, it would order thewm, as i open them.
<ali1234> but what it wouldn't do is offer you a convenient way to switch between windows on the current workspace
<brobostigon> alt-tab or superkey.
<ali1234> no
<brobostigon> yes.
<ali1234> neither of those is convenient
<ali1234> one gives you a list of every single window
<ali1234> the other takes you to this crazy dashboard where you can move windows between workspaces
<brobostigon> and yhe other a visual view of those windows. yes.
<ali1234> unfortunately the visual view is just a 1" square version of the workspace
<ali1234> the same thing you'd see if you were just on the workspace normally
<ali1234> and in the middle you have the same old list of "every window every"
<brobostigon> here. that takes up most of my screen. and i have gnome 3.2.0 here.
<ali1234> almost everything is too small here
<zleap> ok should i unstall both the lpr and cups driver and start over
<brobostigon> i am on my eeepc, and certain apps have some scaling issues, like evolution, othehrwise, it works wells.
<ali1234> even if you have two fullscreen windows the thumbnails are tiny
<ali1234> there is absolutely no way you will be able to distiguish between two terminal windows using this system
<ali1234> at least with unity the thumbnails are bigger if you only have a couple
<brobostigon> ali1234: they will automatiaclly scale, to fit the space.
<zleap> or copy the ppd file somewhere and then start over and point the printer install program at that
<ali1234> no, they won't
<brobostigon> ali1234: they do here.
<ali1234> they will automatically scale to fit a grid
<brobostigon> ali1234: well, with the over a year, i have used gnome-shell now, they have always scaled, depending on the windows you have open, within the activities menu.
<ali1234> it;s very simple
<ali1234> all i want is the ability to have two windows on a workspace
<ali1234> and have a simple way to go to "the other one" that is always the same, and always works
<brobostigon> i see those conditions as solved.
<ali1234> me too
<brobostigon> gnome-shell does it.
<ali1234> it was solved in '95
<zleap> why is csh lacking stuff like tab complete and history
<ali1234> then apple came along and invented the dock, making it impossible
<ali1234> brobostigon: which button do i press to switch between the two windows on the screen?
<ali1234> it should be possible to do this without looking at the screen to make sure you did it right
<brobostigon> ali1234: alt + tab.
<ali1234> no, that does not work
<brobostigon> it dpoes.
<ali1234> if you press alt+tab and then do nothing else, nothing happens at all
<ali1234> the alt-tab control briefly appears and then disappears
<brobostigon> you only have two windows, so hitting it once, will send you to the other window, it has no other option.
<ali1234> current window does not change
<ali1234> no, it doesn't do that
<ali1234> if you press alt tab when you have two windows open, it just shows one icon. then when you release alt, nothing happens
<brobostigon> ali1234: i have two windows now on the same worspace. and i hit alt-tab, and it goes to chromium, i hit it again, and it goes back to gnome-terminal, so what i am experiencing here, disagress,
<ali1234> great
<ali1234> open two gnome-terminal windows and try it again
<brobostigon> ali1234: it shows both icons here, for gnome-terminal and chromium, within alt-tab.
<ali1234> or two chromium
<ali1234> or two anything
<brobostigon> ali1234: done it, two windows, within the same app,s show as seperate windows, undernath the app choice in alt-tab.
<brobostigon> anyways, i need food, so bbl.
<ali1234> in order to actually do this switch in gnome-shell 3.2 you have to do this:
<ali1234> press alt+tab
<ali1234> hold down alt while peering at the tiny thumbnails
<ali1234> try to figure out which one is the one you want
<ali1234> move to select that one with the arrow keys
<ali1234> release alt
<ali1234> if you just press and release alt-tab, nothing happens and you stay on the current app
<zleap> why can't printer drivers be easy to install
<ali1234> in fact if you have two terminal windows open, it is impossible to switch between them with alt-tab alone
<popey> it is in unity isnt it?
<popey> using the new alt-tab thing which zooms in
<ali1234> i dunno, i never use alt-tab for reasons given above^
<popey> heh
<ali1234> is this new thing in oneiric?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> ok hang on, i will try it
<ali1234> it should be noted that i hate the window management of both of them anyway
<popey> you alt-tab and if you have multiple terminals open you hold alt-tab down and it zooms in
<popey> then you can alt-tab between them
<ali1234> and it wouldn't surprise me at all if unity has also got worse
<ali1234> see that is exactly what is wrong
<popey> yeah, i do find it odd
<ali1234> when i want to switch to another window i should be able to complete the entire operation in 1 step without thinking
<popey> yup
<ali1234> i should not have to stop and look at the screen and think about what to do next
<ali1234> switching between two windows should not be a maze oftwisty passages waiting to trip me up
<gord> so i just opened two terminals, i pressed alt tab, it went to the next terminal
<ali1234> good
<ali1234> that's what it *should* do
<gord> thats what it did do
<popey> open more
<gord> i actually had three open
<ali1234> if you have only two windows open, alt-tab should always take you to the other window, or never
<popey> no, more stuff
<popey> not terminals
<popey> have two terminals and two chrome windows
<ali1234> not "it takes you to the other window as along as the other window is a different app" which is what gnome-shell 3.2 does
<popey> easy to flip bwteen two windows, but when you want to get to the third its hard
<popey> xp had it right imo
<gord> so if you just press alt-tab, it uses the last focus order to take you to the previously focused window
<zleap> where do i copy deb files to so synaptic can find them ?
<gord> if you want to get further then you have to hold it down and go to the window you want in the alt-tab list
<popey> zleap: you dont, you double click them and software center opens
<zleap> ok
<popey> gord: that presumes you only use alt-tab
<zleap> i get starting without admin priveliedges
<popey> it all goes to pot when you start manipulating windows with the mouse
<gord> eh, works fine for me
<popey> its painful for me
<popey> might have to video it
<gord> prolly best, hard to understand
<ali1234> if i hadn't just rebooted i'd post a screenshot of what i normally seen if i click on the terminal icon twice in unity
<gord> i'm not a heavy alt-tab user mind
<ali1234> it's basically 20 or so identical black rectangles
<ali1234> with some tiny white smudges on them
<zleap> popey, should it start and allow me to do stuff
<popey> yes
<ali1234> i did notice that in oneiric, the white triangles are unfilled if the window is on another desktop
<zleap> well it starts synaptic
<ali1234> of course that doesn't help if you have windows of that app on this desktop and also on another desktop
<zleap> with E: The package mfcj615wlpr needs to be reinstalled, but I can't find an archive for it.
<zleap> E: Internal error opening cache (1). Please report.
<ali1234> but it indicates that unity does know about workspaces
<ali1234> which means i should be able to patch it to only consider windows on the current one
<zleap> this happened before,  as it insists on trying to install the lpr package which I don't want then it just screws everything up
<popey> zleap: why dont you want lpr?
<zleap> I have no idea i just want to get a printer working
<zleap> i need the cups wapper package for the ppd file
<popey> where did the deb come from?
<zleap> brother website
<popey> which printer is it?
<popey> ah
<popey> and what happens when you "sudo dpkg -i file.deb" ?
<popey> (with the downloaded deb)
<zleap> popey, http://pastebin.com/ivA0RzaF
<zleap> i get loads of errors
<ujjain> Anybody seen Mock the Week? :p
<popey> yes, frequently
<zleap> as i said i had this issue before with my old brother printer, which i got help fixing now i have the same issue with the new printer, (once installed it works fine) but just getting stuff working is difficult
<popey> zleap: remove the package and reinstall it
<ujjain> popey: Last episode? I have a question about a joke.
<zleap> popey, it won't let me
<zleap> it says to re-install before i remove
<popey> sudo dpkg -r mfcj615wlpr
<popey> what does that do?
<popey> looks like a crappy package from brother
<popey> ujjain: whats the question?
<ujjain> popey: "How many (Economy?) seven(s?) saving you money as long as your using it in 1986?" *hahaha* ... but I don't get it.
<popey> ujjain: economy 7 is cheap overnight electricty
<popey> it was popular about 30 years ago
<popey> maybe 20 years ago
<zleap> popey, http://pastebin.com/Hkbpe07B
<popey> ujjain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_7
<ujjain> popey: hmm, do you find it funny? it's 7 hours a night cheap electricity, but I don't get the fun-factor,
<popey> ujjain: because nobody now promotes / uses it
<popey> ujjain: it's probbaly seen by some as the kinda thing an old granny might do
<zleap> popey if it helps, this is what i got help with last time, i have pasted the history relating to some of the stuff i had to type http://pastebin.com/v9nFafdq
<ujjain> ah ok, it's a bit a diss :p
<ujjain> ah, I get it.
<popey> yeah
<zleap> i also had to edit some files lprng or something to remove lines to make things work
<popey> zleap: nicely broken
<popey> its fixable there's guides to un-screwing-up packages in that state
<jacobw> as mentioned on mock the week by andy parsons ;)
<popey> yeah, i did see that episode
<popey> its funny ujjain because i went on holiday to a house in the middle of nowhere and it had economy 7 heating!
<popey> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Ashcombe+Country+Cottages,+Dawlish&hl=en&ll=50.601712,-3.531198&spn=0.000729,0.001662&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=22.330721,54.448242&vpsrc=6&hq=Ashcombe+Country+Cottages,&hnear=Dawlish,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=20
<popey> that house :D
<popey> middle of _nowhere_
<zleap> popey, yeah
<zleap> all i did was install2 files and this happens
<zleap> brb watching something on tv
<ali1234> i remember the advert for economy 7
<ali1234> with the guy with those two little money bags
<ali1234> "this is how much money you'd save with economy 7"
<ali1234> and then the guy is like feeling the weight of both bags
<ali1234> cd /opt
<ali1234> oops
<ujjain> popey: ahhh :P
<majdekalel> hi i need help plzzzzzzz
<majdekalel> what the hell is this mesge " Expired Request
<majdekalel>     Your password request has expired. Please submit your request again. "
<ball> hello windmill!
<czajkowski> hmmm
<czajkowski> gah there really is always 1 who misses the point of women meet ups in it
<czajkowski> most flipping annoying
<czajkowski> in fact it's infuriating!
<mgdm> someone who turned up? Or just someone flaming?
<czajkowski> uk ml
<mgdm> I wonder if I'm even still subscribed to tha
<shauno> I gotta admit, I kinda agree with his sentiment, even if he did misunderstand this particular event
<mgdm> czajkowski: is it in fact a women-only event? Nothing in either of your posts really states that
<czajkowski> it also doesnt state men not allowed
<mgdm> that's what i mean
<czajkowski> same way girl geek dinners includes men
<mgdm> I didn't realise that
<czajkowski> so for him to jump to that conclusion is words that I cannot describe
<czajkowski> and is it any worder then you wont have more women at events
<czajkowski> when you have mails like that sent around!!!!!
<mgdm> czajkowski: so does that mean that the ada lovelace day is coming around again? I meant to write a blog post last year and never did :)
<czajkowski> yes they've moved it back from march to october
<czajkowski> 3rd year a row to celebrate the event
<czajkowski> which is good to see happening
<mgdm> Try and remind me and I might write that post, then :)
<czajkowski> mgdm: thanks
<davmor2> Moo
<davmor2> czajkowski: you muppet hello
<czajkowski> and then he fecks off
<mgdm> muppet
<mgdm> :)
<shauno> I wonder if there's anything nerdy I can get up to with an rs485 port.  figure it's got to be useful for *something*
<shauno> this is difficult.  introducing my amiga to the LAN, means it finally needs a name.  19-20 years old and she's never had a name
<mgdm> hehe
<shauno> most my machines are just named for their role, but calling a host 'childhood' seems wrong
<mgdm> Hmmmm :)
<hamitron> Anette
<hamitron> ;/
<shauno> firewall's starting to look incredibly messy with 3 internal interfaces now :/  funny feeling I'll have to rewrite that just to keep it sane
<hamitron> sounds like mine atm
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I'm tempted to simplify mine
<hamitron> shauno, why do we overcomplicate things? :/
<shauno> because there's nothing on TV at this time of night :)
<shauno> I'm slowly but surely turning this machine into the computer I wanted when I was 12 :/
<mgdm> hehe
<hamitron> :D
<shauno> slattach: tty_open: /dev/ttyS0 (fd=3) slattach: tty_set_speed: 19200
<shauno> except for that bit :(
<hamitron> certainly not the 10mbit you dreamed of
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> ok i'm on oneiric for real
<ali1234> anyone know how i make the user switching widget not show my full name all the time?
<ali1234> already reported one regression in dual head :(
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> ali1234: what if you forget your name? Without that there, you'd be stuffed
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-01
<ali1234> misplaced notifications still isn't fixed
<ali1234> not that i mind
<ali1234> installing flash through the software centre is "interesting"
<ali1234> if you search in the dash the first thing it shows is the amd64 metapackage for nspluginwrapper - even if you are on a i386 machine
<ali1234> so you have to click on the second result
<ali1234> not that you can tell because they both look identical
<ali1234> apparently if you pick the second one on amd64 it doesn't work
<daftykins> 0o
<ali1234> i assume this should be reported against unity-places-applications?
<ali1234> ~info vrms
<ali1234> !info vrms
<lubotu3> vrms (source: vrms): virtual Richard M. Stallman. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.15 (natty), package size 12 kB, installed size 100 kB
<ali1234> whut?
<daftykins> you have what installed O_O
<ali1234> i don't have it installed
<ali1234> i just saw it while searching for unity-places-applications
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> i see
<ali1234> which is actually called unity-place-applications
<daftykins> sounds a little - odd
<ali1234> well quite
 * daftykins hands out the monacles O_.
<ali1234> bug 863745
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 863745 in unity-lens-applications (Ubuntu) "Searching for "flash" in the "applications for download" section of the dash gives confusing results." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/863745
<daftykins> OSs are beginning to look quite confusing without a stock WIMP UI
<ali1234> "i told you so"
<daftykins> just looking at some screenshots of Oneiric now
<daftykins> mmm?
<ali1234> the whole point of all of these things is supposedly to make them easier to use
<ali1234> but it just makes them more frustrating
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> indeed
<ali1234> because it gives all the control to the software
<ali1234> and the software is usually broken
<daftykins> i got linked to an amusing article on gnome3 from some intel guy and Linus Torvalds
<ali1234> so now i can get tripped up by stupid things like this, purely because the information isn't available to me
<daftykins> from their perspective, rather
<daftykins> yeah i'm not fond of the way 'computing' is going
<daftykins> i haven't even really touched ubuntu 11.04
<ali1234> this is relevant http://blog.jospoortvliet.com/2011/09/meego-and-opensuse-invitation.html
<ali1234> not that i'm saying you should switch to opensuse
<ali1234> but the core message is worth repeating
<daftykins> reading
<ali1234> the reason this annoys me so much is that yes, you can make an argument that synaptic is confusing for the noobs
<ali1234> but the replacement is no less confusing, in fact it is worse, because even i can't make sense of it
<ali1234> because the information just isn't there, whether you can understand it or not
<ali1234> and this just presents a barrier for people who want to learn
<ali1234> you can't reason logically abut which icon is more appropriate
<ali1234> you just have to guess
<daftykins> absolutely
<daftykins> those that know, are stumped. so how can 'lesser' users have a chance? all they can hope for is clicking the right combinations of fancy pictures (icons) until something happens
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> have faith in the fancy icons
<daftykins> :)
<ali1234> that is the very antithesis of what free and open source software is all about
<ali1234> if i wanted to put my faith in some hidden away system i'd be using apple or microsoft
<daftykins> i can kind of understand how the desktop environment people (probably the wrong term, there) don't really know where to go from here - that's fair to say isn't it? we've had a lot of similar stuff for a long time
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> but just because something is 20 years old, doesn't mean it's bad
<daftykins> but yeah right now they're more about user experimentation than user interface design
<ali1234> sure, from a marketing pov, it is harder to sell
<ali1234> also here's another thing
<ali1234> compare that opensuse post to jono's recent post about "getting your apps in ubuntu"
<ali1234> the opensuse guy is community manager too
<ali1234> jono's is a lot more diplomatic :)
<ali1234> but still has a veiled reference to meego in that he mentions "qt and qml"
<shauno> I honestly think developer.u.c is a bad joke :/
<ali1234> i;ve never seen it before
<daftykins> that concorde-effected on me
<ali1234> what exactly do you think is wrong with it?
<ali1234> what's concorde-effected mean?
<shauno> it feels a whole lot like they've decided they need an "ecosystem" to match the ios/android/etc models
<ali1234> well that's because they have
<ali1234> and they do
<ali1234> but you have to remember that that is all they mean by "developer"
<ali1234> people who make fart apps basically
<ali1234> the only thing i see wrong with it is the focus on pygtk/quickly - which are just frankly awful tools
<daftykins> ali1234: it went right over my head
<ali1234> qt creator is lightyears ahead, and can compete with apple and windows development systems
<ali1234> and that's the reason the qt and qml reference in jono's post stuck out for me
<ali1234> i've never heard him push anything but quickly before
<daftykins> oic it was an abbreviation for .ubuntu.com
<ali1234> so i don't think it was a coincidence with the meego situation and all
<ali1234> (if you didn't know, meego was supposed to use qt for app dev, but now it's dead, replaced by tizen, which it seems won't have qt at all)
<daftykins> oh so they're turning ubuntu into a platform for smartphone-like apps
<daftykins> ooh-err
<ali1234> yes
<daftykins> careful gents, the ship's going down
<ali1234> have you been living under a rock for the past year?
<hamitron> it is probably the right direction
<daftykins> i've been nowhere near Ubuntu in about that long, yes
<ali1234> it's not just ubuntu
<daftykins> oh
<ali1234> meego was entirely about making a platform to shift apps
<daftykins> oh i see
<ali1234> except intel and nokia wanted to do it all themselves
<ali1234> so instead of forking some established distro, they started over from scratch
<daftykins> you'll have to forgive me, i've read the links but i'm quite slow and have had a few :)
<daftykins> madness
<ali1234> then a year later, when they were just about at the point of getting a viable base distro (think ubuntu maverick), nokia decided to go to windows mobile instead
<hamitron> ali1234, you are using unity?
<ali1234> and now another 6 months later, intel have quit too
<daftykins> i'd heard the name in the news but no idea on this background
<ali1234> hamitron: yes, i've been using it for 6 months now
<hamitron> k :)
<hamitron> so what are intel backing?
<daftykins> is that painful?
<ali1234> so anyway, now meego has no commercial backers
<ali1234> hamitron: tizen
<ali1234> meego was supposedly this open community thing
<hamitron> I think I may have to use google to know wtf that is
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> but really it was only ever nokia and intel, and a forum where people could pretend they were involved
<ali1234> hamitron: if you go to meego.com there is now a link to tizen.com at the top of every page
<ali1234> it appeared there a couple days ago along with a blog post from intel basically saying "sorry everyone, meego is dead now. thanks for your time, now get out"
<ali1234> like everything thats ever happened with meego, this all happened without anyone in the community having any idea it was coming
<hamitron> tizen sounds like a different kind of system
<ali1234> it isn't, really
<ali1234> there's only so many ways you can package up linux kernel, glibc, core utils
<hamitron> didn't meego focus on native apps more?
<ali1234> the difference with tizen is there will be far less standards involved in implementing "compliance"
<ali1234> yes, meego was about native apps with qt
<ali1234> tizen is all html5 apps
<ali1234> but that doesn't really mean they are not native
<ali1234> meego was all QML
<ali1234> QML isn't really very different from HTML5
<ali1234> i sure the syntax is different
<ali1234> but they are both markup languages
<ali1234> they both use javascript
<ali1234> and the way they treat objects ont he page is quite similar
<ali1234> QML certainly is not "native" by any stretch
<hamitron> HTML5 was probably set to "win" over QML though
<ali1234> technically QML and Qt are better than html5
<ali1234> but html just has way more momentum and support
<hamitron> yeh
<daftykins> is tizen meant to be a mobile platform only, or?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> well depends on your definition of mobile really
<ali1234> it's for set top boxes, in vehicle displays etc
<ali1234> anything that could potentially have "apps" installed, but isn't a "real" computer
<ali1234> meego was never meant for end users
<daftykins> oh i see
<ali1234> it was meant to be adapted for and sold with OEM hardware
<daftykins> for some reason i thought it was going to be a mobile phone OS
<ali1234> tizen will be no different
<ali1234> it is going to be a mobile phone OS as well
<hamitron> tizen sounds promising tbh
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> don't fall for it
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> meego sounded promising too
<ali1234> so did maemo
<ali1234> so did moblin
<ali1234> all now abandoned
<hamitron> well, I think this has something going for it
<hamitron> with the cross platform apps
<hamitron> and just sounds simple
<ali1234> i take it you've never tried to use OBS
<ali1234> simple it is not
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> ok :)
<ali1234> not that the others are any better
<ali1234> but in the end it's just linux
<shauno> I find it oddly entertaining that there's so many contenders for the completely-nonexistant linux-phone market
<ali1234> once you've built it and installed the packages, there's not much difference between distros
<ali1234> shauno: you've missed the point
<ali1234> it's not about selling an operating system
<ali1234> it's about giving away an operating system that is tied to your app store
<ali1234> meego was never going to be shipped in a way that could be called "open"
<hamitron> and saving on writing the OS yourself ;)
<ali1234> exactly
<ali1234> OEMs like samsung dream of being able to sell a mobile device tied to an app store and take a cut of every piece of software sold
<ali1234> they could do that with microsoft, but they are too cheap to split the profits
<ali1234> they want it all
<ali1234> linux allows them to build their own half-assed distro and DRM it up, tie it to their app store
<hamitron> I only see Apple and Google in a position for that atm
<ali1234> but they are also too cheap to even do that themselves
<hamitron> and Amazon
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> so meego and tizen were invented in order to trick the linux community into making it all for them
<shauno> that's pretty much exactly what amazon just did with the kindle fire.  it's the most sewn-shut android going, and people are going nuts for it
<ali1234> with the offer that "you'll get a real open linux smartphone if you help us"
<ali1234> "not like that android where you have no say over the governance"
<hamitron> the kindle fire would interest me, if I knew it was going to have a longer life than the current android devices
<ali1234> except it didn't work out like that
<ali1234> it worked out exactly as open as android except more buggy and with no devices
<daftykins> i'm waiting for my HP Touchpad to get android :)
<ali1234> but hey, when android was only 1.5 years old it sucked too
<hamitron> daftykins, fun yes, but I just want something that is "normal" and works
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> if they keep starting over every 1.5 years they'll never get past the suckage
<ali1234> unless they base off another distro, like canonical wisely chose to
<hamitron> is there any more news on webOS?
<ali1234> webos supposedly to be sold to amazon?
<ali1234> daftykins: some people are working on a touchpad bootloader in #msm-bootloader
<daftykins> hamitron: why won't that work 0o
<hamitron> if that happens, that answers my question on how long amazon will support the fire :/
<ali1234> amazon will support it as long as people keep buying stuff with it
<daftykins> ali1234: neat, the cyanogenmod team are doing well
<hamitron> daftykins, by "just works", I mean with no hassle, fully supported
<daftykins> hamitron: so you want to be locked into a content provider?
<hamitron> yes
<ali1234> daftykins: the htclinux people too
<hamitron> daftykins, only on that 1 device
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> ah i was not aware of htc linux
<daftykins> ff 7.0.1 already 0o
<daftykins> who broke what...
<ali1234> they do more crazy stuff than cyanogen... they port android to windows mobile phones :)
<ali1234> and now the touchpad
<daftykins> ah yes they made HaRET
<daftykins> i've used that on my HTC Touch Diamond to boot android
<ali1234> anyway i am confident it will happen... plenty of smart people are working on it
<daftykins> useless on a phone with 192MB RAM though
<hamitron> http://www.boffer.co.uk/
<ali1234> i have a phone with 64mb that runs android 1.6
<hamitron> tempted
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> or 1.5... or was it 1.4?
<ali1234> anyway it's useless
<ali1234> noooo donot buy those cheapass tablets
<daftykins> indeed
<ali1234> "N700" lol
<hamitron> ali1234, I won't.... it turns out I am cheaper than even that tablet ;)
<daftykins> wasn't that an ancient nokia?
<daftykins> hamitron: you missed the touchpads then?
<ali1234> you're thinking of the N770... and i think that's the idea :)
<hamitron> daftykins, too expensive
<ali1234> that was the first maemo device
<daftykins> even during the firesale?
<ali1234> almost everyone missed them
<hamitron> by the time the touchpad is running android in a useful way, android will have greater requirements imo
<ali1234> even the mobile analysts i know failed to purchase them
<daftykins> ah i got 2 as i was in the US at the time
<ali1234> and they know everything that's going to happen 2 weeks in advance
<hamitron> a mate offered me one for Â£90 he'd got
<hamitron> but i decided I wouldn't use it
<ali1234> you probably wouldn't
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> i don't use any of the mobile stuffi have
<hamitron> me neither
<daftykins> i've used it for google reader on the toilet so far
<daftykins> think i'll have more use once android's on
<hamitron> I'd rather buy a few books on stuff I want to learn
<daftykins> as i could do something with XBMC
<hamitron> and as for how the computing market is going.... not interested
<hamitron> I like a traditional upgradeable PC
<daftykins> heh i don't get companies releasing those all-in-ones now
<hamitron> well, I think tablets will take over, or something like them
<daftykins> for the common folk, yeah
<hamitron> and as that happens, I won't be so interested
<hamitron> yep
<daftykins> saw so many on boat trips and airports recently
<hamitron> there will still be people like us ofc
<hamitron> :)
<daftykins> i think it's the touch manipulation, it really appeals to the simpler folk
<daftykins> deffo
<daftykins> though, as i was teaching recently, they're definitely getting worse
<hamitron> what are?
<daftykins> youngsters
<ali1234> tabets won't takeover, that is silly
<hamitron> how you mean?
<hamitron> "worse"
<ali1234> like was said the other day, do you think people will run autocad on a tablet? maya? avid?
<hamitron> ali1234, the average user doesn't load autocad
<daftykins> they do their social networking, general arsing around in browsers - but basically consider OSs and anything lower level to be pixie dust and magic
<hamitron> they load facebook
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> i know this
<ali1234> computers existed before facebook
<ali1234> and they will continue to exist
<daftykins> thus, kids are getting worse
<ali1234> you can still buy a typewriter if you want to!
<daftykins> i'm on a heavily modded one right now!
<ali1234> computers wern't mass market until about ... 1995
<daftykins> quad ink ribbons
<hamitron> they will exist, sure.... but the PC in the home like now, will die away
<daftykins> <3
<ali1234> yes, the entertainment PC will die
<hamitron> even the PC to do basic work
<ali1234> but it was never a particularly good solution anyway
<ali1234> most people don't want a PC
<hamitron> word processing and stuff
<ali1234> word processing on a tablet... no
<hamitron> yes
<ali1234> ipad can't even print
<daftykins> think it can now
<ali1234> these devices are not meant for creation
<ali1234> except creating apps
<ali1234> from which the OEMs can take a cut
<hamitron> I think tablets will evolve
<daftykins> indeed, amazon kinda has it right with the fire being about consumption
<ali1234> they're not even for that
<ali1234> they are devices for consumption only
<daftykins> though i'm a tad confused who wants to watch TV+film on a small screen on the go
<ali1234> consuming bandwidth, media, apps, anything that can be charged for
<daftykins> also, when the demo guy said they can resume what they're watching on the big screen - what device do they mean?
<ali1234> amazon is spot on with the fire
<ali1234> the question is whether they have the technical ability to support an android device
<ali1234> kindle software is kind of flaky...
<ali1234> daftykins: shifting media between screens is something meego was supposed to do
<hamitron> I still think the average business will be happy to replace PC with more feature full tablet/small devices
<daftykins> oh so just HDMI output?
<ali1234> except it never worked because about the only thing they didn't put in the compliance spec was what codecs a meego device should support
<ali1234> daftykins: no, the cloud knows where you were in the video and knows how to resume on another device
<ali1234> it was even demoed at some meego conference
<daftykins> oh yeah
<ali1234> but it was doomed because of codec issues
<ali1234> it would only have worked if all your media was ogg with no drm
<daftykins> but right now when amazon refer to it
<ali1234> otherwise, meego probably wouldn't have been able to play it
<daftykins> what's going to be the device under the TV?
<ali1234> well the kindle already does it with books
<ali1234> the device under the TV will be a set top box
<hamitron> daftykins, it won't need to be under the tv, it will probably comunicate wirelessly
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> like your PVR, except with internet, basically
<daftykins> oh a WiDi thing
<daftykins> but that's intel D:
<ali1234> or rather like an average person's PVR
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> ah
<ali1234> wireless or not is irrelevant
<hamitron> what is to stop having the PVR in the cloud?
<daftykins> yeah, was gonna say i think TV recording is an old usage model now
<ali1234> they want to sell you two boxes, both of which are connected to the cloud (for which you'll have to pay for bandwidth of course)
<ali1234> hamitron: the PVR *will* be in the cloud
<ali1234> but you'll still need a box to connect to your TV
<ali1234> or a TV with such a box integrated
<ali1234> either way doesn't matter
<hamitron> dvla?
<hamitron> erm
<daftykins> lol
<hamitron> or whatever it is over the network
<hamitron> haha
<ali1234> dlna
<daftykins> DNLA / DLNA
<hamitron> that is it
<ali1234> aka upnp
<ali1234> which was a nice try
<daftykins> i used the youtube functionality on a Sharp blu-ray player the other day
<ali1234> but another "standard" that died due to nobody made their devices compatible
<daftykins> oh my gawd they're terrible
<hamitron> why couldn't android offer a new version of it?
<ali1234> making that stuff actually work across manufacturers was a stated goal of meego
<ali1234> hamitron: it could. it will.
<ali1234> hamitron: meego and tizen existed because the OEMs are frankly terrified of google and apple
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> google already has "google tv"
<hamitron> google do 1 thing wrong
<ali1234> heh
<hamitron> they start too many things, and let some fail so often
<ali1234> imo the one thing google does wrong is be too honest
<hamitron> often half assed
<ali1234> people complain about google and privacy and then they go and use facebook, ilife, and msn live, as if they are any different
<ali1234> the only difference is google are up front about what they do
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> the same thing can be said about meego vs android
<ali1234> meego made a big thing about being more open than android
 * hamitron has been tempted to quit everything and just use his own stuff
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> but in the end they were exactly the same in terms of openness
<ali1234> the only difference being google were up front from the start about who was in control
<ali1234> while meego (ie intel and nokia) just kept making promises and then breaking them
<hamitron> I know we all use open source stuff here.... but tbh, it often takes someone controlling something, to make it good
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> very much so
<hamitron> so it has direction
<daftykins> oh yeah
<ali1234> a guy from google made a post in response to "openness" complaints
<daftykins> and someone headed in a direction you like
 * hamitron breaths sigh of relief, not getting flamed
<ali1234> basically what he said was, the only thing that matters is, is the source available? is it free? and does it compile?
<daftykins> hmm
<ali1234> when he made that post, meego still wouldn't compile properly
<daftykins> haha
<ali1234> unless you had an account on a machine in the cloud
<ali1234> a machine running OBS
<hamitron> I assume he means "free", like how the FSF define it
<ali1234> and you had to track down a dude on irc and ask him to give you an account
<ali1234> hamitron: free to be reused, yes
<ali1234> hang on, i'll find the post
<daftykins> http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/09/use-a-send-only-email-client-to-increase-productivity-at-work/244207/
<daftykins> what a ridiculous idea
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I automatically ignore all email anyway
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> :D
<hamitron> or it must seem that way
<hamitron> :D
<daftykins> i keep getting my addy signed up to stuff by a Dennis <my surname> in america
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> get some new spam, "god damn it Dennis"
<daftykins> :D
<hamitron> I've started to spam spammers
<hamitron> when i can be bothered
<daftykins> finally i somehow discovered his actual address and sent him an email, but he was more interested in chasing our family tree
<hamitron> :\
<shauno> I keep getting mail for someone in the UK.  which is odd, since my email address is my full name.  and he doesn't have my name.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yeah i got email for a couple more d(something) <mysurname>
<daftykins> as i'm a Dave
<daftykins> and i replied to the latest saying, er this isn't his address
<daftykins> they replied saying they'd basically guessed at his address
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> haha i've still got Dennis' emails
<ali1234> hamitron: https://plus.google.com/114765095157367281222/posts/VjjxfHcc2dg
<hamitron> not available
<shauno> I ended up sending this chap an sms asking him to quit it, when he signed up to vodafone using my email address
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> shauno: that's amazing - get a reply?
<shauno> yeah.  he denied he did
<shauno> despite the fact I was sending him webtexts from his own account, since they'd mailed me all the details
<hamitron> ahaha
<daftykins> lmfao
<shauno> (and it costs me money to sms the UK)
<daftykins> how long did it go on for?
<shauno> I still get his mail :/
<shauno> but not from vodafone anymore, oddly enough
<hamitron> can you terminate his contract?
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> awwww
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> i had a great one asking if i'd go over and tutor some woman's daughter/son in California
<daftykins> i wasn't free that day, sadly...
<daftykins> so i decided to let her know i wouldn't make it
<daftykins> and that perhaps she'd better contact the actual tutor
<hamitron> omg, why do i get no good emails? :/
<hamitron> mine are all viagra and huge lottery wins
<hamitron> :(
<daftykins> i'm happy to report everyone replies really gratefully to me after i point out their mistake :)
<daftykins> although i never replied to Dennis about the family tree :S
<dogmatic69_> what is worse sudo rm -rf / or sudo chmod -r 0000 /
<daftykins> in Ubuntu you can just modify the hostname and not match it up with the hosts file
<hamitron> rm imo
<daftykins> = sudo borked
<daftykins> need a livecd to repair :D
<daftykins> muahaha
<dogmatic69_> the both would suck
<shauno> I think I'd rather rm.  easier to clean up.  permissions can be subtle
<daftykins> true, that. i spent ages earlier today diagnosing why a Ricoh printer/all-in-one wouldn't push scan to a samba share
<hamitron> could something like sh be replaced with a script to shutdown, just to annoy someone easy?
<daftykins> permissions were actually fine, just for some reason the printer needed a restart *and* the server, but the server after
<daftykins> samba restarts didn't solve it 0o
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hamitron: cruel
<hamitron> they'd wonder what happened
<daftykins> i probably told this before
<daftykins> but when i was a student in College, IE had that thing where some code could eject your optical drive
<dogmatic69_> hamitron: maybe alias ls="sudo shutdown -P 0"
<shauno> shutdown's mean.  something like PROMPT_COMMAND=eject  is harmless and fun :)
<daftykins> i made up a CD-R labelled "Windows XP SPx" and put autorun config on it to auto place that webpage with a hidden internet explorer window in Windows' startup folders
<daftykins> and another class guy took it :>
<hamitron> naughty :/
<daftykins> right i'm calling it a night
<daftykins> later all o/
<hamitron> nn
<hamitron> I'm cosnidering it too
<hamitron> considering
<hamitron> o/
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS>  \o
<czajkowski> Rugby time
<togster> Generic greetings to all
<AlanBell> morning all
<czajkowski> no lord :(
<popey> Morning
<czajkowski> howdy popey
<czajkowski> nicely done 3 pts on the board for scotland
<czajkowski> oh dear
<scoundrel50a> what channel is for talking about oneiric?
<popey> you can here if you like
<popey> whats up?
<popey> there is also #ubuntu+1
<scoundrel50a> I wsa just wondering, on the window, there is only an x to close, nothing else, is that going to change?
 * AlanBell will be doing some screencasts of Oneiric later
<scoundrel50a> I like the gui for oneiric, and its getting less buggy
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> scoundrel50a: is that a window that doesn't resize?
<scoundrel50a> yes
<scoundrel50a> everything I open wont resize
<scoundrel50a> just has an  x to close
<popey> can you show us a screenshot?
<AlanBell> that doesn't sound right, there are a couple of programs that don't resize, but most should, and should have the window controls
<scoundrel50a> um, have a problem, I have a lenovo laptop, but cant find the print screen button on it, is there a program for pront screen?
<scoundrel50a> give me a couple of minutes, I call them up, brb
<AlanBell> scoundrel50a: run gnome-screenshot -i
<scoundrel50a> oh wow, that is good, ok, I need to add it to imgur one sec
<scoundrel50a> http://imgur.com/n84Bv
<scoundrel50a> ok, that shows x-chat what and firefox and they both only have an x
<scoundrel50a> all windows I open are the same
<AlanBell> that is all wrong!
<popey> thats just the accessibility theme enabled isnt it?
<AlanBell> what theme is that?
<popey> oh, no thats gnome shell
<popey> scoundrel50a: you installed gnome-shell?
<scoundrel50a> yes, and its highcontrast theme, but its like that on all the windows
<AlanBell> it isn't just the high contrast theme
<popey> thats not unity
<popey> thats gnome-shell
<scoundrel50a> I will change it to something else to show you
<popey> scoundrel50a: whats the history of this install?
<scoundrel50a> it was installed from Linux Emporium, with just unity, then I installed gnome shell
<popey> right
<AlanBell> as luck would have it the high contrast theme was on my list to screenshot anyway  . . .
<czajkowski> if anyone is around the lord I suggest stepping back
<scoundrel50a> with 11.-04 dual boot
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/highcontrast.png
<popey> scoundrel50a: you upgraded to 11.10?
<scoundrel50a> its on dual boot with 11.04 so its on its own partition
<popey> ah, gotcha
<scoundrel50a> and its just a Ubuntu machine, no windows
<popey> so your original question seemed to assume this was the gui in 11.10, which it isnt
<popey> Unity is the default desktop user interface in 11.10, but you can install gnome-shell if you like, as you have discovered
<AlanBell> either way, the window controls should exist
<scoundrel50a> they are there in Unity, not in gnome-shell
<AlanBell> I will try installing gnome-shell later (when I have all the screenshots I want
<AlanBell> )
<scoundrel50a> ok
<scoundrel50a> it is worth installing though, I prefer it to unity
<AlanBell> I am doing screenshots of the high contrast theme, the onboard on screen keyboard and a screencast with audio of the screenreader install
<popey> i filed a bug against onboard last night
<popey> during a google hangout with jorge and jason
<AlanBell> there is a performance issue with it on top of the 3d dash
<popey> its quite handy having one of the unity developers on your screen :|D
<AlanBell> I blame gord
<popey> onboard can reliably crash unity if you press the right keys
<AlanBell> but I am very pleased that DBO managed to scrape in the code to allow onboard to type into the 3d dash at all
<popey> yeah
<popey> open onboard, and click ALT in it then click the button above tab
<popey> *boom*
<AlanBell> popey: maximise onboard in unity 2d
<popey> does that do similar?
<AlanBell> then try and get out of the situation :)
<popey> hah
<AlanBell> no window controls, it refuses focus, no keyboard shortcuts, no double click the title bar
<czajkowski> danfish: you watchin this pile of you know what
<AlanBell> *boom* alt+` in onboard doesn't make unity a happy desktop
<popey> :D
 * AlanBell adds to the a11y release notes
<popey> its already fixed
<AlanBell> oh good
<popey> he fixed it last night
<AlanBell> testing has been so late this cycle
<popey> stability has been so late this cycle :D
<AlanBell> yup, it just has not been runnable enough to test
<AlanBell> I really hope the LTS starts out pretty much as Oneiric is right now
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<brobostigon> whats firefox 7 like? iceweasel, debian's version of FF was just upgraded to 7 here in debian unstable.
<popey> no idea, i dont use firefox
<brobostigon> just curious, havent used it in years.
<brobostigon> i use chromium now.
<czajkowski> brobostigon: it;s ok
<czajkowski> lot of the plugins aren;t caught up to work wiht it yet
<brobostigon> czajkowski: ah, i see. from that reponse, i think it isnt worth my time trying then. thank you for your insight.
<popey> hmmmm
<popey> i do love chroot
<popey> chrooting to a natty install on another disk and upgrading it to oneiric
<popey>  
<czajkowski>  
<bigcalm> Breaking news: popey and czajkowski lost for words. More at 11
<nymwar> silence of the lambs
<ali1234> oneiric goes into suspend even if you disable it in the settings
<ali1234> hmm if i click a disk icon multiple times it opens multiple windows - unlike every other icon on the launcher
<MooDoo> bigcalm: czajkowski lost for words?  never!!! lies!!!
<MooDoo> :)
<directhex> i wonder if i can play popeycraft over 3g
<bigcalm> directhex: I regularly do it when staying at PremierInn hotels
<bigcalm> Hayley likes to take a while in the shower, what else am I to do? :P
<directhex> don't premier inn have wiffle?
<bigcalm> They do, which you have to pay for
<bigcalm> Minecraft doesn't require that much bandwidth really
<bigcalm> 3g is good enough
<nymwar> I never understood the minecraft fad
<directhex> nymwar, it's not a game. that's the #1 thing to remember
<bigcalm> Simple things amuse me. Like my credit card saying 3,333. Of course it means I have a crap load to pay off, but still amused
<nymwar> if it's not a game does that mean it's a religion?
<directhex> nymwar, it's a toy.
<directhex> monopoly is a game. you can win at monopoly. a barbie is a toy. you can't win at barbie.
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<popey> ali1234: i have noticed this suspending too
<ali1234> it is a known bug
<popey> ah ok
<ali1234> https://launchpad.net/bugs/854624
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 854624 in gnome-power-manager (Ubuntu) "[oneiric] suspend/hibernate not performed according to "Power Settings"" [Undecided,Fix released]
<popey> ta
<Laney> I like the bug where if you set the monitor to never turn off it actually turns off instantly
<ali1234> lol
<MartijnVdS> Suspending (and brightness up/down) only work after suspending+resuming first on my laptop
<MartijnVdS> also a great feature 8-)
<directhex> did they fix the bug where if you turn off your laptop display & turn on only the external display, it turns off all displays?
<directhex> natty shipped with that
<popey> erk
<popey> alan@wopr:~$ sudo apt-get update
<popey> E: The method driver /usr/lib/apt/methods/https could not be found.
<MartijnVdS> popey: apt-get install apt-transport-https
<MartijnVdS> it has a few dependencies..
<popey> ta
<MartijnVdS> we use it at work with client certs so only "official" machines can use the internal repo
<MartijnVdS> (this makes configuring pbuilder.. interesting.. too :))
<MartijnVdS> Speaking of lovely bugs.. Alt+F2 -> type too fast <enter> --> previous program started using Alt+F2 gets run (instead of intended one)
<windmill> hello, oneiric: is there a way to adjust delay before screen dimming? it dims a bit quick for me
<MartijnVdS> windmill: it should be in either the "Screen" or "Power" preferences
<windmill> MartijnVdS, it jsut seem to be an on-off option with no control
<windmill> It seems to dim after about 5 seconds, I'd like it a little longer as if I'm reading a screen full of text it is a bit distracting
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea where configs are stored these days
<MartijnVdS> there used to be keys in gconf that you could adjust
<MartijnVdS> but not anymore, it seems
<windmill> hmm
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> I have noticed the disappearance of the Mobile Broadband option on the pop-up network manager in 11.10, any of you experiencing the same thing?
<pr0ph3t> so when clicking on the wireless icon in the top bar I cannot connect to mobile broadband anymore
<pr0ph3t> or is there a separate channel to talk about the next version of Ubuntu
<AlanBell> there is #ubuntu+1
<popey>   hmm
 * popey plugs his mobile broadband dongle in
<AlanBell> no there isn't :)
 * AlanBell has screwed up channels
<AlanBell> thats better, #ubuntu+1 is the right channel, but so is this one
<popey> yup, plugged in my dongle and it asks for the pin unlock code
<popey> and i see it listed in network manager
<pr0ph3t> popey, can you disable it in the pop-up window?
<popey> what popup window?
<pr0ph3t> as in un-tick the Mobil Broadband
<pr0ph3t> Mobile*
<popey> in what popup window?
<popey> the menu you get when you click network?
<pr0ph3t> top bar, to the right, where the wireless icon is
<popey> its not ticked
<popey> so there's nothing to untick
<pr0ph3t> but it shows
<popey> yes
<popey> o_O
<pr0ph3t> right, that's what happens when you un-tick your main connection
<pr0ph3t> unfortunately I have a very annoying internal dongle and although I managed to get it to work in previous versions of Ubuntu every time I install a new version it stops working again
<pr0ph3t> if I get the error -1 Unknown symbol in module when doing insmod is it because I'm doing something wrong?
<popey> â¹
<kirrus> Why is there still people on IRC.. it is *beautiful* outside!
<penguin42> kirrus: Vamparism
<MooDoo> at work :(
<popey> ETOOHOT
<kirrus> MooDoo: as am I ;)
<kirrus> popey: Sunshade + Drink-with-lots-of-ice?
<gord> pfft i was outside this morning, it was a giant mistake
<kirrus> gord: you get burned?
<gord> i'm pretty sure the giant ball of gasses fusing together is trying to kill us
<kirrus> Nah, it's only trying to kill you.
<kirrus> :p
<kirrus> tea tree based after sun lotion helps a lot imho
<shauno> ireland helps a lot too.  13Âº of pure grey here
 * kirrus is very glad he doesn't have to put the expensive electric heating on for a while yet
<penguin42> anyone know a way to debug why apt is saying 'The following packages cannot be authenticated' ?
<penguin42> it's a package from multiverse, and I have the latest ubuntu-keychain installed
<kirrus> penguin42: this might be a silly question, but have you updated your repo list?
<kirrus> as in, done an apt-get update
<penguin42> kirrus: Why would I need to do that ?
<penguin42> kirrus: Well I'm not sure when I last did - but why would that cause a cannot be authenticated error?
<pr0ph3t> so, what could be causing the Unknown symbol error when I do "sudo insmod module.ko"?
<pr0ph3t> an actual error in the coding of the module?
<penguin42> pr0ph3t: It normally shows the symbols in dmesg if it's missing one
<kirrus> penguin42: sometimes packages are removed, or updated, and so don't get authenticated. It's worth doing an apt-get update before you try installing anything, so you've got an up-to-date listing. Not too critical on modern ubuntu systems, as they tend to do one every day anyway, for the package update listing
<penguin42> kirrus: OK, go back a step - where does the authentication come from?
 * penguin42 is trying to understand the error in detail, not just fix it!
<kirrus> penguin42: each package is PGP signed, and the core keys are in the keychain package. Its decrypting this that gives you the authentication - to make sure the package hasn't been altered
<kirrus> Or rather, checking the signature, not decrypting, as they're not encrypted.
<penguin42> kirrus: OK, so why would an apt-get update fix that?
<kirrus> If you've an out-of-date package list, you might be trying to get a package that has been moved or changed, so you're getting one without the signature your system is expecting for that package
<penguin42> kirrus: I didn't think that could happen; if the package was updated then it would have a different version number and filename, if I tried to apt-get that then it would fail with a not found
<kirrus> Also, the keychain may have been updated, and if you've not updated your package list, you can't be sure you've not got the current one.
<kirrus> penguin42: I'm not sure exactly why it happens, just that it does.
<penguin42> (an apt-get update did just fix it! But I'd still like to understand why)
<kirrus> penguin42: you could try waiting for someone who knows the packaging system better than I. jpds might have an idea.
<pr0ph3t> there are 7 unknown "symbols", they could be functions (i.e. input_register_polled_device (err 0)). Does that mean I'm missing something?
<penguin42> pr0ph3t: It is either you're missing another module it depends on or the symbol names changed
<popey> kirrus: I may dip in the pool later
<popey> just unclogged the filter, full of grass
<kirrus> popey: sounds like a plan \o/. Is it a 'solar heated' pool (i.e. the sun on it's own)
<popey> no
<popey> pump & heater
<popey> it's 30 degrees right now :D
<popey> might have to go down the shop and get beer to drink whilst in said pool
<kirrus> Sounds wonderful
 * kirrus is not getting jealous again. 
<kirrus> ;)
<kirrus> oh, penguin42, you could try asking on #ubuntu or on the ubuntu-uk mailing list, rather than wasting the glorious sunshine ;) :)
<penguin42> kirrus: Hey I went out yesterday, I don't want to over do it!
<kirrus> penguin42: there is no such thing as overdoing it in the UK, when we're going to be stuck with a whole winter of dull grey days ;)
<penguin42> kirrus: Especially in Manchester
<kirrus> penguin42: so what are you doing still inside? :P
<penguin42> I've not woken up yet; it's only 2.30
<Azelphur> 70C at idle is way too hot for a Q9400, right?
<hamitron> Azelphur, you don't need thermal socks for your cpu :/
<Azelphur> :p
 * SuprEngr has found a way to make Unity more "ok for the eyes" - simples, background illumination -off- by default [well done Compiz!]
<SuprEngr> [it's amazing what a day off work lets you find -0 stuff that what was available all along. doh!]
<funkyHat> hum. Just put a DVD drive in my MicroServer, but I'm struggling to break out the metal bit from the case...
<funkyHat> ahar. Just needed to push a bit harder
<penguin42> use a larger hammer
<Azelphur> haha, that doctor that's on the news recently, doctor richard scott
<Azelphur> that's my doctor o.O
<MartijnVdS> The Doctor?
<MartijnVdS> Only 20 more minutes :P
<Azelphur> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-15021419 nah this one
<ikonia> this Doctor Who is just random nonsense now
<ikonia> they can't think up plots, so they are just writing random words on a page and calling it a script
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> o/
<zleap> hi
<czajkowski> hows folks
<zleap> i am good
<czajkowski> I am all shopped out
<penguin42> bought anything fun?
<bigcalm> I am a banana
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: if it's yellow, go see a doctor
<czajkowski> penguin42: bought a purse as mine broke yesterday to match a bag that AlanBell has for me
<czajkowski> mostly my bf did the shopping for work stuff
<czajkowski> but nice day out in westfield and we got champagne and strawberries
 * AlanBell has got czajkowski a bag???
<czajkowski> aye in the suitcase
<czajkowski> but tis ok will be moving that soon!
<AlanBell> oh, right :)
<ali1234> mpeg2 ts demuxer is broken in oneiric
<ali1234> so i can't play mythtv recordings
<ali1234> well not with the default movie player anyway
<zleap> hi
<zleap> hi
<popey> hi
<AlanBell> ho
<zleap> can someone help me finda guide to help me fix messed up packages please
<zleap> popey, yousaid there were guides to un screwing up things
<popey> ya
<zleap> hi
<popey> the key is not the package name but the error message you get from dpkg
<popey> thats what I'd google for
<zleap> ok
<popey> I dont know the answer, I just know the answer is out there
<zleap> any idea why things get so messed up in the first place
<popey> probably involves massaging some files in /var/lib/dpkg
<popey> yes
<popey> shit packages from the vendor
<zleap> ah
<popey> they probably have an RPM which they convert with alien and then say "There, I fixed it"
<zleap> well i know the lpr package is messed up as i need to create some directories manualy, it tries to do it but fails
<zleap> popey, yeah they have both rpm and .deb
<popey> yes
<popey> thats not the point, the point is how they make them
<ali1234> ar -x *.deb
<ali1234> tar -xf data.tar.gz
<ali1234> copy out the files you need
<ali1234> ...
<ali1234> profit
<zleap> h ok
<zleap> i am not sure hat i ned
<ali1234> well you start by looking at what is actually in there
<zleap> i need the ppd file but its saying the driver is missing
<zleap> ok
<zleap> so if i can find the file i need i just copy that to the right place
<ali1234> sure
<zleap> mfcj615wlpr
<zleap> even though the add printer program asks for a wrapper lpd file
<zleap> or lpd wrapper
<ali1234> is anyone else watching the lectures on quantum computing that were linked on slashdot today?
<ali1234> http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/quantum-computing-for-the-determined/
<ali1234> i just watched the first one, it's so simple
<dutchie> i watched some david deutsch ones a while back
<dutchie> http://www.quiprocone.org/Protected/DD_lectures.htm # these ones
<ali1234> oh dear, i crashed the codec installer
<ali1234> wow super compression
<ali1234> ok this is a rather different style of introduction
<ali1234> he's going off about multiverses
<ali1234> don't like this :)
<dutchie> mmm, the compression is a bit iffy on those
<ali1234> i don't like it when things are over explained
<ali1234> if you understand complex numbers and vectors you'll understand that first video
<ali1234> if you've ever used quaternions or done stuff with the mandlebrot set, you probably have enough background
<popey> ali1234: are you in unity right now?
<ali1234> yes
<popey> you were talking about the alt-tab behaviour the other day
<ali1234> yes
<popey> I learned a couple of interesting things about it
<ali1234> it is not like you said
<AlanBell> it got tweaked
<AlanBell> it now prioritises the current workspace a bit somehow
<popey> thats a compiz setting
<popey> which is now on by default I believe
<popey> and you can use alt+the_key_above_tab to do the alt-tabbing within an app
<ali1234> if you just hit alt tab you always go between the last two apps
<AlanBell> I was trying to explain that last time we discussed it, but it does't restrict to current workspace
<ali1234> no matter what apps they are
<popey> yes, thats the case
<popey> they figure you're most likely to go between two apps
<popey> it kinda breaks if you have 3 apps open spread over two desktops
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but that's why i don't use alt tab
<dutchie> heh
<dutchie> this may be bad considering my current workflow is three apps spread over two workspaces
<AlanBell> in this website (which isn't counting down to the release) http://www.thisisthecountdown.com/ the body tag has a class "NzcgNmYgNzIgNmMgNjQgMjAgNzMgNzAgNjEgNjMgNjUgMjAgNjEgNjcgNjUgNmUgNjMgNzkgMjAgNmYgNzIgNjc" which I believe to be an encoded message
<ali1234> oryl?
<ali1234> baconian cypher perhaps?
<AlanBell> NNNNNMNNNNNMNNNNNNMNNN
<AlanBell> zmzmjjzzjjjjjjjmjzjmzj
<AlanBell> cYIMQAMAEMUAEcUUMkAYIc
<AlanBell> ggggggggggggggggggggg
<AlanBell> is a trivial reordering of it
<ali1234> gNj<capital><lowercase> appears like 4 times
<AlanBell> the third line isn't a simple ceasar, the first two lines look like things you have to do to the third one
<ali1234> hmm there seems to be a letter missing?
<AlanBell> yes, I would expect a final g
<ali1234> and the final c should be capital
<ali1234> or maybe not
<AlanBell> why?
<AlanBell> there are 3 lower case c, I thought they might be spaces or something
<AlanBell> or the 2 M in the first line might be
<ali1234> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/2h1NFVTfR1
<ali1234> the class is not used in the style.css of course :)
<AlanBell> nope
<AlanBell> and I don't think it is a google site verification thing either
<ali1234> perhaps there's no final g because it is intended to be used with split('g')
<AlanBell> ok, that makes sense
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> I think I made a mistake
<pr0ph3t> I had a driver for my asus laptop in Ubuntu 11.10 and the I did modprobe -r driver.ko
<pr0ph3t> actually without .ko
<pr0ph3t> how can I get that driver or module back into place?
<pr0ph3t> if that is even possible that is
<popey> modprobe driver
<pr0ph3t> thanks popey, do I need to do modprobe at every start?
<popey> pass
<popey> dunno what the driver is or does
<dogmatic69_> popey: you just have a random list of drivers floating round your head :D
<shauno> if you didn't need to load it explicitly before you remove'd it, you shouldn't need to do anything more with it  (eg, whatever conditions caused it to be loaded ont his boot, should be true on the next boot too)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-02
<allnickstaken> I'm having an issue with my deluge and i'm not sure why. I'm using it on my laptop as normal and my server with deluged. On my laptop EVERY tracker works np. On the server there is one tracker which is reporting Error: Invalid port. Any ideas what causes this please? Deluge 1.3.3 (current ports set are 55000-64000)
<daftykins> allnickstaken: you're not using UPnP ?
<Girly-Girl> hi
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<czajkowski> hi
<czajkowski> join #RWCants
<czajkowski> not able to talk in here without swearing right now
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<nymwar> hello all
<brobostigon> morning nymwar
<AlanBell> morning all
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aloha
 * AlanBell thinks czajkowski will be a bit smiley right now
<czajkowski> just a bit
<czajkowski> :D
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning AlanBell, czajkowski and bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> o/
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I think the RWC is bad for your health
<bigcalm> czajkowski: you appear to be quite stressed in your tweets :)
<gord> raid problems are ruining my nice sunday morning :( stupid thing got stuck
<allnickstaken> daftykins, i'm rebooting whole server after activating uPnP
<allnickstaken> will keep you posted
<czajkowski> bigcalm: fantastic game, shame italians were cheating feckers
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I quite agree :(
<bigcalm> Has any one team sailed through all of their games?
<czajkowski> NZ
<bigcalm> Clear win for them then...
<bigcalm> Time for sushi!
<Girly-Girl> bigcalm: Requesting permission to hack your computer
<kirrus> Girly-Girl: you really want to hack a computer?
<Girly-Girl> kirrus: Yup
<mgdm> try 127.0.0.1
<AlanBell> hey, thats my IP address!
<kirrus> ...
<Girly-Girl> mgdm: Works, but all I can get is my own stuff
<kirrus> Girly-Girl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localhost
<Girly-Girl> kirrus: I was joking about that I know
<kirrus> Girly-Girl: Kinda hard to tell your technical ability over the internet :)
<zprood> Hi
<kirrus> hello
<zprood> It's nice be here, i am a freshman.
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1277/detail/  <- pub \o/
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1283/detail/ <- release party in a pub \o/
<zprood> great.
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1293/detail/ <- other release party in a different pub \o/
<kirrus> zprood: welcome, then :)
<kirrus> zprood: it's pretty quiet today, but it's normally busier
<kirrus> Did I scare him off or somint? :(
<czajkowski> cannot wait
<czajkowski> http://www.hispaniola.co.uk/FaultyTowers.php?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=fawlty&gclid=CKLjzoyMyqsCFQUNfAodAWOh3w  tickets booked for here on the 18th
<AlanBell> nice :)
<Monsterwizard> when is it wabbit season?
<AlanBell> I think that opens just after the haggis season starts
<SuprEngr> hmm... trying to get Ubuntu to recognise a disk [any disk] disk in USB floppy drive [USB floppy drive recognised ok]
<directhex> SuprEngr, have you  mounted the floppy?
<directhex> /dev/fd0 at a guess
<SuprEngr> I try - oh how I have tried! all it will let me do is format the floppy drive itself [even if no disk in it] - cries
<SuprEngr> ...tried 32 different floppy drives - both oh under *that  other* OS
<SuprEngr> oops please eread 2 for 32
<SuprEngr> damn numb finger!
 * SuprEngr starts auction for dead digit - priceb - a working one pretty please
<SuprEngr> and p.s. -  "mount: can't find /dev/fd0 in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab" [or any other dev/xxx I've tried]
<directhex> you can't just do "mount /dev/foo" if there's no fstab entry for /dev/foo. you need to do "mount /dev/fd0 /media/floppy
<duvelhedz> SuprEngr: Sudo blkid to list what the drive is coming up as, then mount /dev/xxx /media/xxx as directhex says
<SuprEngr> duvelhedz, sorry for late reply [cooking as well as begging]...
<SuprEngr> [doing it ow]
<SuprEngr> directhex, soz - meant to say fd0 - problem lies between keyboard and pooter - [numb finger probs atm]
<SuprEngr> [[doing it now]
<duvelhedz>  SuprEngr: how did you get on
<SuprEngr> duvelhedz,   /dev/sdg: SEC_TYPE="msdos" UUID="5C51-1AE0" TYPE="vfat" [did I forget to mention that what I was hoping to do was put a copy of msdos - then win for workgroups - into virtual;box ;)
<SuprEngr> no mount -no go
<SuprEngr> [damn history -all I wanted was to preserve an old OS
<duvelhedz> Sudo mkdir /media/floppy && Sudo mount /dev/sdg -t vfat /media/floppy
<duvelhedz> Without the capitals though
<SuprEngr> duvelhedz, love the way yours keeps coming up as Sdo - thanks, had just seen that
<SuprEngr> *Sudo
<SuprEngr> wow -that's an improvement - mount: block device /dev/sdg is write-protected, mounting read-only  ... that'll do for me!!
<SuprEngr> duvelhedz, cheers a mil... & then a mil more
<duvelhedz> No worries. You got sorted right?
<SuprEngr> duvelhedz, well nautilus has just read disk contents 100% ok - now it's down to sorting out vbox
<duvelhedz> Happy days!
<SuprEngr> weeeeeeeeee!
 * SuprEngr copies and saves log for future reference ;D
<duvelhedz> To back up and avoid using the floppy use "dd if=/dev/sdg of=~/filename.dd" then sudo mount ~/filename.dd -t vfat /media/floppy when you need to use it. Big difference in the speed of a floppy v a hard drive
<gordonjcp> afternoon
<gordonjcp> is there a way to get rid of the massive sidebar with the icons in unity?
<gordonjcp> or make it about half the size, and ideally lie along the bottom of the screen?
<SuprEngr> gordonjcp, have you installed Compiz manager - if not, do that & look for the Unity add-on. It's in that.
<gordonjcp> SuprEngr: I'm still in the installer
<gordonjcp> I don't want to use compiz
<gordonjcp> SuprEngr: at the moment I'm just trying it out off a USB stick
<SuprEngr> but it uses compiz already
<brobostigon> for an update-alternatives to apply, i need to logout, and then back in again. ?
<YaManicKill> the answer is "harder than you'd expect"
<YaManicKill> ooops
<YaManicKill> wrong line...
<YaManicKill> oh for crying out loud, how hard can it be to get an editable live distro to boot up, show a webpage, and shut down again at a certain time...
<YaManicKill> there...that one first :-P
<YaManicKill> then the first..
<^aDaM> lo all
<TheOpenSourcerer> quiet in here. Nothing happening? Or is everyone driving home from the beach?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: boo
<TheOpenSourcerer> ah hello czajkowski
<TheOpenSourcerer> good result this morning?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: enjoy the games over the weekend
<czajkowski> yes great game
<czajkowski> 1st half a bit dull
<TheOpenSourcerer> I really enjoyed the Eng Sco game.
<czajkowski> 2nd half was brilliant
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's the only one I saw.
<czajkowski> not the england game
<gord> since asda.com has crap password security stuff (no special characters, more than x letters, less than x and so on) i'v just been using the "forgotten your password" form to reset it every time i visit there, its actually really good security now i think about it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Read about Ire and Wales this morning on phone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Was at Hockey with thing2
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am might glad it's France next w/e.
<TheOpenSourcerer> *mighty
 * TheOpenSourcerer is moving a 50GB VM image between hosts.
<TheOpenSourcerer> yawn
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sleeping on a dodgy sofa bed at a Travelodge on Friday (I lost the coin toss with AlanBell) has done something nasty to my right shoulder area. twinges galore.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yipee - Only 10GB to go.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: bed bugs? :)
<popey> lo TheOpenSourcerer
<popey> oneiric is getting on my nerves. suspending when i dont want it to
<czajkowski> ph you too
<czajkowski> I leave my machine alone for 15 mins and it's gone
<czajkowski> really anoying since latest upgrade
<gord> the gnome 3 power manager won't listen to a single word i tell it
<czajkowski> also my default setting to watching movies changed from vlc
<czajkowski> and my desktop change
<MartijnVdS> gord: that's by design
<MartijnVdS> gord: you shouldn't want to change anything
<gord> i think its just a bug ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: try convincing the gnome devs
<Azelphur> woo, shortened my water cooling pipe and put 2x1TB hdds in my pc...didn't break anything :D
<Azelphur> now to install 11.10 \o/
<Azelphur> well, actually that sata hdd dock doesn't seem to be working with my old HDD :(
<ali1234> the bug where the monitor turns off instantly if you set it to "never" is still around too
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> Hmm, Installed 11.10 and it seems to just hang at "Checking battery state... [ OK ]"
<gord> Azelphur, sudo start gdm
<Azelphur> gord, unknown job gdm
<Azelphur> didn't they change the dm in 11.10?
 * bigcalm returns and wonders what he missed
<popey> bigcalm: bbq :D
<bigcalm> Damn
<bigcalm> popey: oh well, had sushi instead
<Azelphur> ah, I see why it's dead
<Azelphur> none of the open drivers support my gpu at all :D
<Azelphur> is there a command line way to install the nvidia drivers?
<Azelphur> hmm actually, I wonder how that's possible baring in mind the livecd worked :S
<Azelphur> in my Xorg.0.log I can see it saying "The NVIDIA GPU at PCI:3:0:0 is not suuported by the 173.14.30 NVIDIA driver"
<Azelphur> whys it installed a ancient version of a proprietary driver on a fresh install?
<Azelphur> yea...it really has installed nvidia proprietary 173 ootb
<Azelphur> wtf is up with that?
<ali1234> oneiric?
<Azelphur> yea
<ali1234> it offered me a choice of two different nvidia drivers
<ali1234> i just went with the default
<Azelphur> it didn't here, it just went ahead and installed 173 which obviously don't work with my gtx 570
<ali1234> "obviously"
<Azelphur> 173 is like 134132423 years old :p
<Azelphur> I think it happened because I ticked the install proprietary drivers / updates in the installer
<Azelphur> I'mma test that and file a bug, assuming I'm right :)
<ali1234> there is no such button
<ali1234> "download updates" only downloads updates
<ali1234> and the other one only installs fluendo afaik
<ali1234> did you install the nvidia driver while using the livecd?
<ali1234> because if you do that it is transfered to the installed system as well
<ali1234> which can turn out bad if you later use the same liveusb to install on a machine without nvidia
<popey> nope
<ali1234> nope?
<popey> the other button installs proprietary nvidia too
<ali1234> oh, ok
<popey> surprised me when I first did it
<jpds> technology.in.2011++
<popey> dialling.up.the.non-free.to.11
<Azelphur> ali1234, no I didn't
<ali1234> does it also install flash?
<popey> i dont recall
<ali1234> because installing flash in oneiric is pretty difficult
<popey> i looked at the source for ubiquity, I'm not entirely clear what the current situation is
<Azelphur> so yea, that's probably a bug then
<ali1234> you have a 50/50 chance of it working
<Azelphur> it's picked the wrong version of the driver for my GTX 570 :)
<jpds> Azelphur: jocket-text is what you seek.
<popey> there's ubuntu-restricted-extras and ubuntu-restricted-addons
<popey> lies
<popey> jockey-text
<Azelphur> jpds, awesome
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-lens-applications/+bug/863745
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 863745 in unity-lens-applications (Ubuntu) "Searching for "flash" in the "applications for download" section of the dash gives confusing results." [Undecided,New]
<popey> Recommends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly, flashplugin-installer, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad, gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg, icedtea6-plugin, gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3
<popey> thats what -addons installs
<ali1234> but not nvidia?
<popey> Depends: ubuntu-restricted-addons
<popey> Recommends: ttf-mscorefonts-installer, unrar, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse, libavcodec-extra-53
<popey> no, thats separate logic
<popey> ^^^ thats -extras
<ali1234> so does that mean it installs flash?
<popey> so extras is addons plus fonts, unrar, more codecs
<popey> no
<popey> oh, yes
<popey> flashplugin-installer is flash of course
<ali1234> see the bug i just posted
 * popey clicks
<ali1234> there's two packages for flash, one on 32 bit one on 64 bit
<ali1234> but you are able to install either one on either arch
<ali1234> and if you pick the wrong one... it doesn't work
<Azelphur> yup, straight up after using jockey to install the current nvidia driver
<Azelphur> yay for breaking things, I'll file a bug later today \o/
<Azelphur> like the new login screen though, quite fancy looking
<popey> bah, my unity just crapped out
<Azelphur> and I like the grid switcher on the new unity
<AlanBell> 
<AlanBell> oops
<Azelphur> is post-release updates newer than version current?
<ali1234> no idea
<Azelphur> indeed, it's confusing, post release updates would indicate that you get updates after the release, but version current would indicate the current verseion...the two terms seem to mean the same thing :S
<popey> ok, so one is flashplugin-installer, the other is adobe-flashplugin
<ali1234> ok?
<ali1234> so the first one presumably is flashplugin-installer
<popey> yes
<ali1234> and installing it would work on 32 or 64 bit
<ali1234> with the only side effect being unneccessary nspluginwrapper installation?
<ali1234> or would it actually mess up if installed on 32 bit?
<popey> not sure, i dont have any 32-bit boxen to test
<ali1234> i do
<ali1234> anyway if that is the case, the second one should never show up
<AlanBell> adobe-flashplugin is from the partner repo isn't it
<ali1234> the two packages actually conflict
<ali1234> if you click one, the other one is makred for removal
<popey> thats a mess
<ali1234> seems to work
<ali1234> that is, they both work on 32 bit
<ali1234> only one works on 64 bit
<Azelphur> haha, 11.10 is pulling a KDE on multi X screen support
<Azelphur> "None at all, go away"
<Azelphur> Gnome 2 and 3 are both broken in similar ways as the previous release
<Azelphur> but adding some extra brokenness to the equation, apparently I can't have a wallpaper any more.
<popey> I didnt think we shipped gnome 2 in 11.10
<ali1234> lololololol
<ali1234> there's no gnome 2
<Azelphur> popey, it's a package you can install, gnome-fallback
<popey> no, it isnt
<popey> thats gnome-3 fallback
<Azelphur> oh, that explains why it doesn't work then \o/
<popey> to look a bit like gnome 2
<popey> but it isnt gnome 2
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> gnome-shell and gnome-fallback are both gnome 3
<popey> as is unity ;)
<Azelphur> I'm assuming it's not working anyway, I seem to have pretty much no buttons
<popey> i havent tried gnome-fallback
<Azelphur> at the top of my screen I have the menu bar from nautilus
<Azelphur> and nothing else
<Azelphur> in both gnome 3 and gnome-fallback
<ali1234> that means 3d acceleration isn't working and *whatever* failed to load because it needs it
<ali1234> but it didn't detect this
<ali1234> because it detects based on graphics card
<Azelphur> hmm, my 3d should be working
<ali1234> so if you have a graphics card that should work but doesn't, you just gte nothing
<Azelphur> I thought it was the same panel bug that was in gnome 2 where the panel crashes if you have multi X
<Azelphur> (the 8-9 year old one)
<ali1234> well it could be that too
<ali1234> i dunno
<Azelphur> yea my 3d accel works fine in unity
<Azelphur> just my second X screen is a white background with a "X" pointer
<Azelphur> :(
<ali1234> bug report it
<ali1234> bug report all these things
<Azelphur> I will do, I just don't intend on holding my breath for multi X support
<Azelphur> had exactly the same issue with KDE and they basically told me to go away
<ali1234> well
<ali1234> the thing about kde
<ali1234> they won't do anything unless you kick up a huge fuss
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> you just have to know what buttons to press
<Azelphur> :p
<Azelphur> still, temp workarounds first so I can get my system online...hmm
 * Azelphur ponders
<ali1234> KDE sucks anyway
<Azelphur> indeed :p
<Azelphur> I know, I'll go bug ubuntu-x for some ideas
 * dutchie wonders how far AlanBell and ali1234 got with the ubuntu countdown code
<ali1234> we figured it out
<dutchie> oh?
<AlanBell> all the way :)
<gord> what is that thing about?
<popey> :D
<AlanBell> http://www.thisisthecountdown.com/
<AlanBell> it isn't counting down to the release
<popey> they've added attribution!
<popey> that wasn't there before
<jacobw> wow
<AlanBell> they have :)
<popey> "Created by the Ubuntu-Adverts team."
<ali1234> popey: they did that yesterday
<popey> ahh
<ali1234> well i don't understand why they are promoting it on twitter if it's really not ready
<ali1234> but i'm stumped for what to do next
<AlanBell> something about friends
<ali1234> where is that quote from?
<ali1234> the one about squares?
<popey> i believe the "game" starts when the countdown finishes
<popey> its a teaser
<ali1234> well that's silly
<Azelphur> <I told you so> btw been saying since 8.04 that multi X screen support was getting worse and would eventually be non existent :p</I told you so>
<ali1234> nobody ever disagreed
<ali1234> X is dead anyway
<ali1234> switch to wayland
<AlanBell> does wayland have a good multi-screen story baked in from the start?
<Azelphur> ^ this
<ali1234> i doubt it
<Azelphur> so what good would switching to wayland do me o.O
<ali1234> none at all
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> it probably won't even work with nvidia driver for like 10 years anyway
<ali1234> so you'll have to use nouceau
<ali1234> so forget about gaming on that
<Azelphur> \o/
<ali1234> i turned on dual mead with nouveau and it crashed within 5 minutes
<ali1234> i wasn't even doing anything
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> I dunno quite why nautilus has stopped drawing the wallpaper on my second screen
<Azelphur> it always used to work
<ali1234> the real problem with X is 90% of the code is unused and nobody wants/dares to touch it
<Azelphur> I know, I can turn nautilus off and get compiz to draw my wallpaper
<Azelphur> amazingly compiz is actually the best wm for multi X support atm haha
<ali1234> compiz is also an architectural nightmare
<Azelphur> but it works well, and they are ontop of X screen bugs :)
<ali1234> it crashes if i change the monitor settings
<Azelphur> *shrug* it crashes sometimes
<Azelphur> but nvidia driver is about as stable as a plate of jelly anyway
<Azelphur> ali1234, they are quite good when it comes to fixing crashes too
<Azelphur> if you file bugs with crash dumps they are usually fixed
<ali1234> well i filed one today
<ali1234> but it is private
<Azelphur> ali1234, looks like everything gnome has switched to hard coded $DISPLAY
<Azelphur> I think that's why :/
<Azelphur> if I open nautilus on :0.1 it opens on :0
<Azelphur> so yep, this is officially unusable now
<Azelphur> :(
<Azelphur> I think XFCE might be jumping in to save the day o.O
<Azelphur> went wandering around asking in a few channels, a guy has the exact same setup and says XFCE wins at it
<Azelphur> installed XFCE, and so far it seems to be...working :o
<Azelphur> ali1234, XFCE kicks ass for this :o
<Azelphur> It actually has support...proper support
<Azelphur> individual screen settings!
<ali1234> lolno
<ali1234> i tried it
<Azelphur> yes :o
<ali1234> didn't work at all
<Azelphur> I'm using it right now, working at all it is.
<gordonjcp> comedy
<gordonjcp> I've had about three goes at installing the most recent 11.10 daily
<gordonjcp> every time it fails, because the computer goes to sleep before the install has completed
<ali1234> lol
<AlanBell> oops
<AlanBell> oneiric computers dreamily drifting off to sleep
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> right, I'm quite keen to give Ubuntu a shot, particularly since I've been asked to package some stuff I've written for it
<mgdm> Do oneiric computers dream of electric ocelots?
<ali1234> AlanBell: that is quite an odd coincidence
<gordonjcp> which is the best one?
<ali1234> 10.04
<mgdm> gordonjcp: I imagine you'll get on better with the LXDE or similar versions
<AlanBell> 12.04
<mgdm> gordonjcp: I'm probably switching to one of them soonish
<gordonjcp> ali1234: 10.04 isn't much good, since I'd have to replace every single package on the system
<gordonjcp> basically I find gnome-shell totally unusable and I don't like compizzy desktops
<ali1234> why?
<gordonjcp> ali1234: because they're obsolete
<ali1234> forget ubuntu, install arch instead
<gordonjcp> ali1234: that's what I normally use
<AlanBell> package for debian
<gordonjcp> debian is worse
<ali1234> tell your users ubuntu is too much trouble, and they should switch to arch too
<hamitron> :|
<gordonjcp> ali1234: that's... really helpful, thanks
<ali1234> i try to please
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: is it stuff that you want in the main archives, or in the software centre for ubuntu?
<ali1234> btw canonical has a service where they package your app for you
<ali1234> but only if you will sell it in the app store
<ali1234> afaik
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: I don't know
<gordonjcp> what's the software centre?
<ali1234> the ubuntu app store
<AlanBell> app store, that you can sell stuff in, as well as get stuff from the archives, so I didn't phrase that very well
<gordonjcp> if I install with apt-get in 10.04, stuff like osm-gps-map is about two years old
<AlanBell> it would be, yes
<gordonjcp> actually osm-gps-map is closer to four years old
<AlanBell> "stable" means "doesn't change"
<AlanBell> !info osm-gps-maps
<AlanBell> !info osm-gps-map
<lubotu3> Package osm-gps-maps does not exist in natty
<lubotu3> Package osm-gps-map does not exist in natty
<gordonjcp> might not have hyphens in it
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/osm-gps-map
<AlanBell> !info python-osmgpsmap
<lubotu3> python-osmgpsmap (source: osm-gps-map): GTK+ library to embed OpenStreetMap maps - Python bindings. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.7.2-1ubuntu3 (natty), package size 37 kB, installed size 196 kB
<gordonjcp> yeah, that's well out of date
<AlanBell> http://nzjrs.github.com/osm-gps-map/ so 0.7.3 is out
<Laney> debian has it.
<AlanBell> I think it would need a merge not a sync as it has ubuntu3 in the version number (so we have messed with it)
<gordonjcp> hm, is there a way to see what's been messed with?
<Laney> patches.ubuntu.com
<gordonjcp> right, attempt four at installing
<AlanBell> Laney: so where on patches.ubuntu.com would it be?
<Laney> http://patches.ubuntu.com/o/osm-gps-map/osm-gps-map_0.7.2-1ubuntu3.patch
<AlanBell> ah, not by package name
<Laney> source package name
<AlanBell> right, ok
<Laney> pretty sure it is syncable now though
<gordonjcp> yeah, it just looks like it messes with the debian/ directory in some way
<ali1234> apt-get source, then look in debian/patches
<ali1234> gordonjcp: all debian specific changes have to go in debian/
<ali1234> everything outside that is supposed to be untouched
<Laney> sometimes.
<ali1234> in the source package that is
<ali1234> the patches are applied to the source
<ali1234> most packages use quilt for that
<gordonjcp> nope, it's fallen over again
<gordonjcp> it sits at "Configuring target system" for about 20 minutes, then shuts down
<gordonjcp> oh well, so much for that then
<dogmatic69_> could anyone point me in the direction of allowing pings on my server?
<dogmatic69_> if i ping now nothing happens
<bigcalm> Open the port for imcp
<dogmatic69_> any specific one?
<ali1234> srsly?
<ali1234> icmp operates below the level of ports
<dogmatic69_> ?
<dogmatic69_> never heard of icmp before :/
<ali1234> you know when you get connection refused
<ali1234> that implies that communication is done before connecting to a port, right?
<ali1234> it has to send a message "may i connect to port X?"
<ali1234> those messages are done on icmp
<dogmatic69_> ah ok
<dogmatic69_> but its still some port
<ali1234> no
<dogmatic69_> :O
<kirrus> dogmatic69_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Control_Message_Protocol
 * dogmatic69_ is on there
<kirrus> :)
<dogmatic69_> so ive added return echo to aws on icpm firewall rules
<dogmatic69_> security thing
<dogmatic69_> is there anything server specific to do?
<ali1234> doubt it
<dogmatic69_> 7 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 6031ms
<dogmatic69_> :/
<dogmatic69_> pinging the wrong one :D
<dogmatic69_> all fixed now, thanks
<gordonjcp> this is just weird, the install media says it's okay when you run the self-test thing, and it seems to work when I boot off it, but the installer just doesn't want to play
<ali1234> try the alternate installer
<gord> i would add way more people who add me to google plus if they had any information about who they are in their profile..
<gordonjcp> ali1234: I'll wait until 11.10 comes out, I don't see an installer for the dailies
<ali1234> dont use the dailies
<gordonjcp> ali1234: no point in getting 11.04 when it's about to be replaced
<gordonjcp> ali1234: in which case, I'll leave it until 11.10 comes out
<gordonjcp> ali1234: I already tried 11.04, it's too hard to use
<ali1234> compared to what?
<gordonjcp> ali1234: gnome, xfce, icewm, basically any sane desktop ;-)
<hamitron> gnome is sane?
<hamitron> :|
<gordonjcp> hamitron: gnome 2 was
<gordonjcp> gnome 3 is just as bad as unity
<hamitron> I prefered gnome 1 tbh
<Laney> hahaha
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> gnome 1
<ali1234> try xfce then
<gordonjcp> a desktop PC is not a single-task device, and I don't know why both unity and gnome-shell are trying to push the idea that it is
<hamitron> xfce is turning fat too
<ali1234> because the desktop pc is only really suitable for professionals
<gordonjcp> I don't get the idea of having a massive great bar down the left side of the screen, taking up a ridiculous amount of screen real estate
<hamitron> LXDE <3
<ali1234> that's a weak argument
<gordonjcp> and then having it disappear and reappear if it feels like it
<hamitron> Unity will suck on a non-widescreen then?
<ali1234> they all have bars along the screen
<gordonjcp> hamitron: yes
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> hamitron: can you even buy none widescreens?
<gordonjcp> I can see how it would work well on widescreen
<gordonjcp> ali1234: most laptops
<ali1234> no
<hamitron> ali1234, who said I spent money? ;/
<gordonjcp> most "proper" LCD monitors, ie. ones not derived from cheap TV LCDs
<ali1234> lol no
<ali1234> pro grade monitors are widescreen now
<hamitron> if I was to buy one, I would get widescreen tbh
<hamitron> nothing decent and new in std ratio
<gordonjcp> ali1234: so unity is only suitable for running on the very newest hardware?
<hamitron> ubuntu is for the latest hardware, yes
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> if you consider anything under 5 years old "the very newest hardware" then yes
<ali1234> if you want to attack ubuntu on it's requirements, then the memory usage is the real problem
<ali1234> 2GB isn't enough
<hamitron> but rather than complaining about things, I've just dropped ubuntu from my problem machines.... then use ubuntu with an open mind on new spec machines
<hamitron> 9-10 months and I will give it a go
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> no one is making you use ubuntu
<hamitron> exactly
<hamitron> choice <3
<ali1234> it's not like you can buy a computer and it is locked to only run ubuntu
<gordonjcp> well anyway
<hamitron> dig dig win8? ;)
<gordonjcp> ali1234: it's got nothing to do with the requirements, and more to do with frankly daft design decisions
<ali1234> i agree
<gordonjcp> I see that 11.10 still has that thing where it puts the menu bar right at the top of the screen
<ali1234> a lot of what is in unity and zeitgeist and the software centre is totally awful
<gordonjcp> whoever thought that one up needs a hefty belt with the clue stick
<ali1234> you mean the same place where it was in gnome 2?
<gordonjcp> ali1234: uuhhhhhh
<gordonjcp> no, I've only ever seen that in unity and Mac OS
<ali1234> oh you mean global menus
<ali1234> yeah that REALLY sucks
<ali1234> it can be disabled though
<gordonjcp> the only reason for that on Mac OS was the completely brain-damaged way that it handled multiprogramming in like System 6
<gordonjcp> there's no excuse for it these days
<ali1234> i can't use mac os because of it
<ali1234> well that and the dock
<hamitron> and the price? ;/
<ali1234> no, i have a mac in the cupboard
<ali1234> don't use it
<hamitron> oh :)
<gordonjcp> the dock is a stupid idea too
<ali1234> operating system is garbage :(
<gordonjcp> turning it on its side and sticking it down the left side of the screen doesn't help
<ali1234> yeah
<gordonjcp> at least in 11.10 if you mouseover the boxes you get a tooltip telling you what it is
<gordonjcp> in 11.04 there's no way to tell what each of the boxes is
<ali1234> you get that in 11.04 too
<ali1234> but sometimes it stops working due to a bug
<gordonjcp> it didn't when I tried it
<ali1234> but the trick with the dock is to remove all the junk that is in it by default
<ali1234> i only have firefox, nautilus, synaptic, terminal
<gordonjcp> it's still hard to tell applications apart
<gordonjcp> well, it is if you can't tell icons apart, which I can't
<gordonjcp> can you install ubuntu without all the stuff like staroffice?
<ali1234> with the alternate CD you can
<hamitron> or mini.iso
<hamitron> alt is better for non-ubuntu nutts
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> I've only got one machine still running ubuntu.  and that's not likely to survive the next LTS :/
<Azelphur> I'm nearly settled in XFCE now, This quite possibly could be the end of my multi monitor rants :o
<Azelphur> It like...actually works and has multi monitor support...and doesn't just fall over and die
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-24
<Danno_> how would i solve the issue with the on-screen keyboard "Onboard" showing up as a blank black box on Lubuntu?
<pinky-> Danno_, on this page it says to install python-gi-cairo => https://answers.launchpad.net/onboard/+question/195106
<Seeker`> argh, can't sleep
<Danno_> `right, ive got the keyboard installed and working, but i need to be able to enable it on the login screen as well. it says online that im supposed to do this via system settings, but my system settings menu seems to have disappeared
<Danno_> is there a way to reset the layout of the main application menu to default as my system settings menu seems to have disappeared
<pinky-> Danno_, if you right mouse click the Power Icon in top right-hand corner do you see a link for System Settings?
<Danno_> nope
<Danno_> i had it when i installed the OS a few hours ago and the only thing ive done since is set up my touchscreen and soundcard
<pinky-> I've not got Lubuntu installed so can't help - sorry.
<Danno_> theres loads of guides on line for replacing it but none apply to lubuntu
<pinky-> Danno_, this is mainly a UK channel and most here are a sleep now, you might be better asking in #ubuntu
<Danno_> i tried and was totally ignored
<pinky-> oh
<Danno_> im in the uk myself so i get that most people are asleep, it just sucks when you ask a perfectly valid question and no-one acknowledges that youre even there
<pinky-> Danno_, all I can suggest is type your question clearly on one line and just be patience.
<pinky-> sorry I can't help more
<Danno_> not to worry. id protest at them but its too early to be getting into a flame ware
<Danno_> war*
<xnox> bug 523896
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 523896 in shadow (Ubuntu Quantal) "useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later." [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523896
<xnox> comment #33 & #34
<xnox> time to go to sleep.
<shauno> is #33 serious?  does he honestly want a distro to boot the kernel, and nothing but the kernel ?
<shauno> just imagine how space they could save on the iso if panic("No init found.  Try passing init= option to kernel.");  was a genuine user expectation
<ali1234> yeah, i don't understand that at all
<ali1234> ah i see
<ali1234> he wants it to be a shell script, not a binary
<ali1234> https://launchpad.net/~mark-syminet/+archive/syminet
<ali1234> eh, i'm confused
<shauno> some people pick the strangest battles.  takes all kinds I suppose.
<ali1234> i now have all the sources and binaries used by netgear to build firmware for the DGND3700 and it just doesn't work
<ali1234> i even have the same OS they use, FC6
<ali1234> ok so i have two kernel images
<ali1234> they are the same size
<ali1234> there is a very small number of differences between them
<ali1234> every difference is an increment of 0x10
<ali1234> what causes that?
<ali1234> oh and the increments are always the low byte of a 32 bit word, and the values are always divisible by 4
<ali1234> eg 24 46 cc 1c -> 24 46 cc 2c
<ali1234> they always start 24 too
<ali1234> this is a big endian MIPS kernel btw
<ali1234> my guess is the new kernel has an extra symbol?
<ali1234> the weird thing is there are not enough differences for any actual code to be in a different place
<ali1234> ah, i found a section with moved code
<ali1234> ah this could be the culprit: Linux version 2.6.21.5 (root@sunshine) (gcc version 4.2.3) #2 | Linux version 2.6.21.5 (root@localhost.localdomain) (gcc vers
<ali1234> i wonder how the binary ended up the same size though. it must be padded
<ali1234> i bet every difference is a printk or something
<ali1234> and the differences are offsets into kernel string table
<ali1234> and the longer string got padded to a multiple of 4 bytes... gives 0x10 bytes
<ali1234> yep, that was it
<christel> good morning
<mattt> christel: morning morning
<christel> helloooo :D
<christel> how are you mattt ?
 * mattt is blooday tired today
<mattt> christel: how you?
<christel> i am also pretty tired, still not quite recovered from shots and cocktails on saturday i think!
<christel> luckily i appear to have a slow day as far as work goes (hopefully it stays that way!)
<bootlkjkgf> Mornin' all. !
<mattt> christel: slow mondays are very nice
<christel> yes! :)
<bootlkjkgf> elfy .. are you from spain ??
<elfy> nope
<bootlkjkgf> OH Ok .. I'll let you live, today.
<elfy> though when I was young where I am was rather full of the spanish
<elfy> bootlkjkgf: why? do you come from Portugal?
<christel> good morning theopensourcerer \o/
<theopensourcerer> hey christel
<bootlkjkgf> elfy, No, I had a gf from Madrid who had an email called elfybox  .. but lost contact in the end .. hear she went mental. ( no connection)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> you'd really not want me to be your g/f :p
<bootlkjkgf> Yeah , there too much pr0n these days .. so I guess I'm OK
<elfy> lol
<bootlkjkgf> elfy, Something to read ... I had a banter with the Gnu guys on Sunday .Found a massive 'hole' in linux software in general . Here's the result  http://dpaste.org/cyr4w/
<j0nr> mornig
<j0nr> any idea why one id3 command would recognise tags whilst another wouldn't?
<j0nr> I have some music files which if I use "eyeD3" will show me tags, but if I use "id3tool" returns that there are no tags?
<shauno> there's two versions of id3, (id3v1 and id3v2, cleanly enough).  programs that don't understand v2 tags will return naught if you don't have tags for both versions
<bootlkjkgf> Conspiracy theory of the day :: Is the http://www.lhc.gov.uk/What-is-LHC/ the UK secret version of the "Large Hedron Collider" located in Neath, Wales ??
<j0nr> shauno: but some files, both which are v2.4, work and some don't, depending on the program
<shauno> beats me then.  was a sensible shot in the dark though :)
<j0nr> shauno: indeed
<Knightwise> morning !
<Knightwise> hey mardi
<Knightwise> hey schwuk
<schwuk> Hi Knightwise
<Knightwise> anyone know anything about filerights ?
<Knightwise> i'm setting up a folder on my system that should be accesable to users , but only to pick up files from , no write or delete access
<xnox> Knightwise: chmod +r
<Knightwise> and what would be the best chmod key ?
<AlanBell> Knightwise: depends on the group owner of the folder
<AlanBell> permissions are Read/Write/eXecute for User/Group/Others
<theopensourcerer> knightwise: for directories chmod 755, for the files they should be 644
<theopensourcerer> This is the default if you haven't changed your umask.
<oimon> i see firefox hasn't changed. was using 3GB RAM this morning
<Knightwise> chmo
<Knightwise> erm , lets say I'm the owner, I want to manage the files in the directory (and the subdirectories) but the only thing the others are alowwed to do is read and download the files
<Knightwise> So if the dir is /home/COMMON , that would be chmod +r 755 /home/COMMON ?
<JamesTait> Good morning, all! :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<christel> morning brobostigon, JamesTait \o/
<JamesTait> Hi christel! :)
<brobostigon> morning christel \o/
<christel> how are weeee?
<JamesTait> christel: I got drenched on the school run this morning. :(
<JamesTait> That should tell you all you need to know. ;)
<brobostigon> christel: not bad, my eczema is calming, and my back hurts, and you?
<christel> ah yes, it is rather wet today! yay for eczema, boo for back :(
<christel> i am still not entirely recovered from the weekend (one day i will learn to pace myself!) bar that i am good :)
<JamesTait> Boo for my dodgy knees too.
<brobostigon> christel: this cooler weather is helping, :)
<JamesTait> christel: Did you have a fun and exciting weekend then? Can you remember? :-P
<christel> JamesTait: see, i am not entirely sure... ;)
<brobostigon> lol
<diplo> Morning all
<christel> DIPLO \o/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diplo> How are we doing young lady ?
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<christel> diplo: not too shabby! thyself? :)
<NET||abuse> hey guys, i'm looking to embark on a home server project, been doing some searching around for a fanless setup, the challenge is in hardware selection at this point, i want an ubuntu server, but not too crappy, probably go with an xbmc ontop of ubuntu.
<diplo> Not to bad thanks, glad to be back at work
<diplo> :D
<NET||abuse> so it will be network storage and when i finally buy a tv, the driver for video display
<NET||abuse> ive seen some little units from the fitpc range, i'm not sure if they're quite right or maybe they are.
<NET||abuse> the other option is to find a nice selection of components and build myself.
<christel> :D
<NET||abuse> mini-itx size device, nice small case, nothing quite desktop size.
<NET||abuse> anyone have opinions on the fit-pc stuff, or know a good resource for components of this fnaless nature?
<JamesTait> One of these days, Google is going to cotton on the the fact that these channels are publicly archived, figure out a way to link IRC nicks to Google accounts, and we'll all start seeing spookily relevant adverts wherever we go.
<christel> haha
<NET||abuse> JamesTait: that's very Orwellian
<NET||abuse> you might be right.
<JamesTait> Scary thought.
<brobostigon> well search for my nick on google, as it is very weird, already.
<NET||abuse> brobostigon: china forum?
<brobostigon> NET||abuse: one of the very first results, is a result from here.
<NET||abuse> heh, you have an eve-online character?
<brobostigon> i do not.
<NET||abuse> not you then? http://www.my-eve.com/character/Antar%20Brobostigon
<brobostigon> no.
<JamesTait> You have a blog.
<NET||abuse> omg, what kind of nut has a blog?
<brobostigon> i havent used it in ages.
<JamesTait> And I have one supremely stinky cat. brb
<NET||abuse> hmm, what's the concensus? For or against using fit-pc as the basis for your network server/xbmc setup?
<NET||abuse> i figure the usb3 ports allow for extending storage with an external unit.. though i've no idea what unit is good for that,
<popey> which fit-pc? they do a few models
<NET||abuse> i think the intense
<NET||abuse> but sticking to the Â£290 model.
<NET||abuse> then again, can i do better than Â£490 for a unit with an i3?
<NET||abuse> I want it to act as a home server for media collections, attached storage might be on the cards, it has 2 eSata ports, so maybe a nice home level enclosure
<NET||abuse> not sure of a unit i've seen that would use eSata though
<NET||abuse> hmm, struggling to see the comparison beetween the intense andthe fit pc3 pro
<NET||abuse> Â£319 with AMD 1.6Ghz chip, 4GB ram, radeon hd6320,, vs Celeron 847E 1.1Ghz, Intel HD 2000, and no decernable descriptoin of what ram by default, have to add drive and ram combo for additional Â£93
<NET||abuse> i have a pool of 2.5" sata drives to use.
<popey> i use an hp microserver as my home storage
<diplo> moi aussi
<popey> and use an Acer Revo as the frontend connected to the telly
 * diplo copies popey to much!
<diplo> Works well though :)
<JamesTait> I could think of worse people to copy.
<NET||abuse> hmm, yeh, any good suppliers for the HP micro servers?
<NET||abuse> might look there.
<JamesTait> The problem is, he has so many good ideas.
<diplo> Yes JamesTait and not enough cash here :)
<JamesTait> And then shares them.
<diplo> Ebuyer I think I got mine from NET||abuse
<diplo> 100 quid cash back still on I think
<NET||abuse> yeh, they come up high on the result list.
<JamesTait> And then I end up sitting there trying to figure out a way I can satisfy the want.
<JamesTait> diplo: Same here.
<NET||abuse> ohh, wow, that's making it a far stronger case. also i have 2 1TB sata drives in a drawer here doing nothign i could throw into that.
<NET||abuse> http://www.ebuyer.com/281915-hp-proliant-turion-ii-n40l-microserver-100-cashback-658553-421
<NET||abuse> is that the only model they do?
<popey> I put the boot disk into the optical bay
<popey> yes, the n36L was discontinued
<popey> so i have 4x2TB in the drive bays and boot disk is a small SSD
<popey> also added an external 4x2TB array which makes for more fun happy storage times
<diplo> lol popey, how much storage!
<diplo> :P
<xnox> popey: do you have Intel Rapid / Intel Matrix Storage System RAID?
<popey> I also have 4 more 2TB disks, nothing to put them in
<popey> need to replace the 4 bay storage tower with an 8 bay one
<diplo> I have!
<diplo> :P#
<popey> then I'll have 12x2TB in the server
<popey> heh
<oimon> globally, are android or apple phones more popular atm?
<popey> define $popular
<oimon> sales
<oimon> couldn't find any stats that were current
<xnox> oimon: do you a want a phone that can find a nearest coffee shop or the one with crippled maps & navigation?
<popey> here we go again
<popey> groundhog day in here
<oimon> i'm making a case for providing a service that works on android and not just apple at work
<xnox> oimon: the only sales figures you can rely on are the yearly calls / tax submissions but they happen at different points in the year for all companies involved. All other figures are made up to minimize taxes.
<Knightwise> hmm.. looking at getting me one of those MK802.II
<Knightwise> 52 euro's is not much to pay for a computer
<oimon> - Android - 104.8 million units, 68.1% market share (46.9% in the same period last year)  iOS - 26.0 million units, 16.9% share (18.8% Q2 2011)
<oimon> that will do for my email.
<popey> hah
<popey> who is target audience?
<popey> employees? what demographic?
<popey> if I surveyed people in the age range 10-16, I'd bet there were way more blackberries than iphone or android
<oimon> it was undefined as "the public"
<popey> riiight
<oimon> they created a service limited to itunes
<oimon> and left it at that, i want to call them to task over it
<shauno> let's just hope they're not using something like itunes U then, in which case they'll quickly point out that there simply isn't feature parity
<NET||abuse> popey: i think i'm gonna copy you, what is the storage array's you use?
<popey> they no longer make it anymore
<popey> EDGE10
<NET||abuse> I am disapointment in my grammer
<popey> others are available
<NET||abuse> yeh, will have a look into that, is a good plan.
<popey> note that the eSATA port on the microserver does _not_ do port multiplexing
<popey> so you have to use a pcie card, which needs to be half-height, half-length with a small bracket
<popey> the array I bought came with one, which has two eSATA ports which _do_ support port multiplexing
<NET||abuse> so i can't use 2 drives on hte port as it stands?
<NET||abuse> or just not raid?
<popey> you can't have more than one drive on the built-in port
<popey> unless the device containing those drives abstracts it away, so you only see one drive
<popey> e.g. if I plug my 4-bay edge10 into the onboard eSATA port, I can only see the first disk in the array
<NET||abuse> so t's not raid specifically,
<popey> plug it into the pcie eSATA card I can see all the disks
<NET||abuse> ohhh, on the external
<popey> I use btrfs on my server
<NET||abuse> i see
<NET||abuse> so you can just have single device on an external connection, unless the external device abstracts away the drives
<popey> ya
<NET||abuse> but the 2 internal ports are eSata yes? and can pop in 2 drives.
<popey> which most dumb arrays dont
<popey> 2 internal ports?
<NET||abuse> uhh, eSata? i just mean sata
<popey> mine (n36L) only has one
<NET||abuse> there's the optical bay nad 2 internal drive bays?
<popey> no, optical bay and 4 internal bays
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFwBbgfB7n8
<popey> see that
<NET||abuse> cheers.
<NET||abuse> did you get it to boot off usb for installing your os?
<popey> see 2:56 for the internal shot
<NET||abuse> or did you need an external optical drive?
<popey> i have no need for an optical drive
<popey> i increased the RAM in mine
<popey> its a cracking little box
<NET||abuse> loudness wise? could you have it in your living room and be able to read a book without the fan sound distracting you?
<popey> mine is sat 1 foot from my head
<popey> i work all day with it on :)
<NET||abuse> hmm, just spousal approval rating wise :)
<popey> it only has one fan in it, on the back, quite big and not too noisy
<NET||abuse> ye, saw the fan in that video.
<popey> probably be okay behind the telly, depends on the size of your lounge :)
<popey> apparently you can stick 16GB RAM in them
<NET||abuse> actually our new place is lovely, nice big long living room
<NET||abuse> could put 4 sofas along the 2 walls and there's still the fireplace in the middle.
<NET||abuse> we've no tv yet
<NET||abuse> that's in a future month's purchase plan.
<oimon> shauno, it is itunes u
<oimon> they called it the itunesU project, which sort of made the product choice a fait accompli
<NET||abuse> just bit the bullet
<NET||abuse> went ahead with teh microserver
<NET||abuse> it's a better setup than anything else really out ther.e
<NET||abuse> and the cashback if it works out just sweetens it so much more.
<shauno> they rarely offer the cashback in RoI :/  no fair
<NET||abuse> ah well, that used to be my problem, now i'm a Londoner :)
<shauno> resistance is futile eh
<NET||abuse> indeed
<NET||abuse> down with the sasanach!! .... uhh, woah, gotta curb that reflex
<shauno> sometimes I swear I'm just here to confuse people.  I'm the southerner that moved to Ireland looking for work.
<diplo> Proving hard work shauno ?
<NET||abuse> Southerner?
<shauno> not at all diplo
<shauno> there's a surprising number of companies here just for the tax rate.  so in the right sectors, the work's there :)
<NET||abuse> the market is strong back home for sure, but it's a little un-interesting in some ways
<diplo> IT sector shauno ?
<shauno> yeah
<diplo> All I hear ( when I actually watch the news ) is that things are really bad over there, no work etc
<NET||abuse> the entrepreneurial side has no market to sell to so it's rare to find a nice company to work for.
<NET||abuse> the work in IT is all for the multinationals
<shauno> right.  anyone big and faceless enough that it doesn't matter so much to them where they're based
<NET||abuse> there isn't the same presence of the really huge big names in London it seems, but ther's a broader range of smaller firms with interesting work to be done, that's why I'm over
<shauno> eg, amazon-aws being in dublin
<NET||abuse> yeh, 3 of my friends back home work there
<NET||abuse> my cousin married another guy there too :)
<shauno> msft, apple, xerox, hp, dell, google, vmware, etc etc.  it's quite popular to have a presence here just to call HQ for your EU arm, just for the corporate tax rate
<NET||abuse> I was nearly through the google interviews 2 years ago,site reliability team, then i decided against it in favour of a short stint with a smaller team in dublin and planned the move over here:)
<shauno> but yeah, at the other end, it's not very startup friendly.  especially not at the moment.
<NET||abuse> after being interviewed by a quarter of the team, that being 8 people for the day, i realised that wasn't the way i wanted to work.
<NET||abuse> yeh, i was in 2 startups in dublin, but they really don't have  the same hope or support that other tech centers have
<NET||abuse> the government mentoring and grants are rediculously managed, the vc pool is too sparse, and the banks are just not interested
<NET||abuse> anyway, enough ranting!!!
<NET||abuse> i got a microserver on route :)
<NET||abuse> happy day
 * AlanBell has just been having a planning meeting about recruitment
<diplo> Interesting ?
<AlanBell> yeah, need to put together a job spec
<christel> hire all the people \o/
<NET||abuse> why not zoidberg?
<diplo> How many are you looking for just the one AlanBell  ?
<christel> i hope they're not getting another AlanBell!
<diplo> :)
<oimon> popey, i don't suppose you got time to look at 945987 yesterday did you?
<oimon> bug 945987
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 945987 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "No Settings are available in "Preferred format", only preset defaults are used" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/945987
<popey> no, but can now
<popey> \o/ lunchtime
 * oimon high fives popey 
<bigcalm> Lunch sounds like a splendid idea
<Laney> I was going to bike to town in lunch to get beer festival tickets
<Laney> but this rain :(
<bigcalm> Some what constant up here
<oimon> did you all make use of the amazon 99p album offer?
<theopensourcerer> christel: Another someone called Alan would be a bonus
<bigcalm> Nothing like the rain around Reading on my way home yesterday though. The spray on the motorway was like driving in fog
<popey> Laney, can you see bug 945987 - neither oimon nor I have a "settings" button in Rhythmbox -> Edit -> Preferences -> Music which indicates it's not fixed
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 945987 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "No Settings are available in "Preferred format", only preset defaults are used" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/945987
<christel> theopensourcerer: see now i have visions of you deleting all applications from anyone not called alan!
<popey> i see four options, mp3, mp4, ogg, flac, but the settings button is greyed out
<theopensourcerer> We would also be very happy with an Alana too christel
<davmor2> morning prods for christel and czajkowski
<czajkowski> popey: that seems to be wrking here for me
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<czajkowski> popey: if I change prefered format to ogg I can change the format settings
<christel> hi hi davmor2
<christel> theopensourcerer: hehe
<davmor2> theopensourcerer: surely it would get confusing when someone rings in and says, "Hi it think I was talking to Alan about x.."
<Laney> popey: yeah i'm sure there's more work to do there.
<oimon> atm i cannot view or define mp3 settings at all
<popey> czajkowski, you're on quantal
<popey> I am on precise
<czajkowski> popey: ah
<Laney> Perhaps you can copy /usr/share/gstreamer-0.10/presets/*.prs to ~/.gstreamer-0.10/presets
<Laney> bit of a shot in the dark
<popey> Laney, copied them, restarted rb, made no difference
<Laney> soz
<YaManicKill> the microserver looks awesome, I never realised it had 4 bays
<YaManicKill> is it hardware raid? if so, what raids does it support?
<Laney> I might look into it again at some point (depends on VMs deciding to work again though)
<oimon> Laney, tried on 2 machines, so should be easy to repoduce OOTB
<Laney> I believe you
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> is there a way to scp multiple .gz files from remote server at one go meaning quickly transfer multiple files at the same time?
<diplo> scp *.gz user@ip:/place/to/put/them
<Laney> just list them
<kaushal> diplo: i need to pull files
<kaushal> or any other tool which can do it
<diplo> Hmm I've not tried that actually the other way round
<diplo> As Laney said, just list them
<shauno> scp is fine with remote wildcards
<Laney> you might have to protect them from your local shell
<diplo> So scp user@host:/location"filename,filname" .
<kaushal> shauno: any example?
<kaushal> diplo: ok
<diplo> I'd not tried that shauno so didn't want to say :)
<Laney> comma? I think you mean space
<Laney> laney@iota> scp home:"temp/cups_1.6.1-0ubuntu6.dsc temp/separate-sub" .                                                               ~/temp
<Laney> cups_1.6.1-0ubuntu6.dsc                                                                                    100% 2770     2.7KB/s   00:00
<Laney> separate-sub                                                                                               100% 9241     9.0KB/s   00:00
<diplo> Seems if you use commas you put it in curly braces
<diplo> I'd go with space instead :D
<shauno> I use "scp mail:*log ."  disturbingly ofte, so I know it works :)
<shauno> (and doesn't appear to colide with local shell expansion in bash, I assume not having a space before the * makes it difficult to match locally)
<davmor2> chrisccoulson: Hey dude I've hit an odd issue,  I copy my ~/.TB folder from one machine to another an in the new version in Quantal I keep getting a login password issue if my precise box is logged in at the same time is there anywhere that would give me some more insight into the issue?
<kaushal> Laney: Thanks
<kaushal> diplo: thanks
<NET||abuse> haha, after all this micro server talk, found the what looks to be the same machine on serverdirect.co.uk for over twice the price?  inc.vat : Â£671.96
<NET||abuse> instead of Â£216.98inc. vat
<bittin^work> seems i have a date with a 13year older woman tonight :D
<NET||abuse> almost 3 times.
<pinky-> bittin^work, are you a maths teacher?
<NET||abuse> bittin^work: with out the "er" it's be scary
<bittin^work> pinky-, nope
<pinky-> oh "older" .. I missed that on first read
<bittin^work> lol
<NET||abuse> me too :)
<diplo> And me :D
<oimon> bittin^work, how old are you?
<bittin^work> 21
<oimon> i know of couples the other way round
<oimon> and i'm 8.5 years older than my missis
<oimon> i know a few male-female>13
<christel> :o
<bittin^work> o:
<christel> i too read that as "a 13 year old woman" first time round
<christel> :D
<popey> half your age +7
<NET||abuse> he'd still be breaking that rule then.
<NET||abuse> by that standard, 19 year old could go out with 16 year old.
<Danno_> are there any onscreen keyboards for Lubuntu that work at the login screen
<AlanBell> Danno_: tried asking in #lubuntu?
<oimon> popey, married my wife when i was 30, she was 22. wasn't socially ok before then :P x/2+7
<popey> outrage
<mattt> oimon: :P
<oimon> actually i think the x/2+7 is the optimal age, right?
<oimon> for women dating younger men , the ruile is different
<AlanBell> no, it is symetrical (and offtopic) see http://xkcd.com/314/
<oimon> :)
 * bigcalm flops
<pinky-> if you can't get a 30 year old then 2 x's 15 will do doesn't take a maths degree
<AlanBell> now we are going *very* off topic . . .
<pinky-> ok sorry
<pinky-> I couldn't help it
<AlanBell> lets talk about Amazon search results instead
<theopensourcerer> lol
<AlanBell> should they go in the dash?
<bittin^work> nope :(
<bittin^work> not that i ever use unity anyways
 * daubers doesn't order physical goods from Amazon anyways
<oimon> i have Â£55 in gift certs to spend there
<bittin^work> i never ordered anything from Amazon
<oimon> :-\
<daubers> I used to order lots from Amazon, until they started relying on Yodel :(
<bittin^work> Webhallen ftw!
<oimon> i don't usnderstand these words
<christel> yodelling amazons not your thing oimon ?
<bittin^work> Webhallen is a .se online store :D
<oimon> i bought an album for 99p yesterday thought from them
<bittin^work> http://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/
<oimon> there's a special offer on
<oimon> trouble is, i remembered a load of other albums i wasnted to get
<pinky-> when I order from Amazon I only buy when it's actually Amazon stocked as I've had too many experiences with fake goods from China being stocked by unscrupulous dealers
<oimon> true
<popey> daubers, they dont always, i just got two parcels via royal snail
 * oimon wonders where his rep[lacement touchpad screen is
 * popey hugs amazon prime
 * czajkowski worshops Amazon 
<daubers> popey: I know, but I've not recieved anything they sent through yodel :(
<czajkowski> it's coming to Christmas shopping so will be living on it again
<daubers> And they can't guarentee who it ships with
<oimon> this pack of haribo has a high proportion of sour cherries, and i'm not complaining about that :)
<daubers> I even offered them more money to ship with someone else
<daubers> :(
<oimon> daubers, get a job as a postie :)
<oimon> or freelance postie where you get to pick it up from the distribution centre
<popey> not had a problem with yodel
<popey> anyway.. shopping results in the dash.. yay! :D
<daubers> yodel == Home Delivery Network :)
<bigcalm> Â¬,Â¬
<oimon> i don't know who they are, i just get stuff delivered and it arrives
<popey> ditto
<popey> love working from home, makes amazon prime all the more worthwhile, order, arrives next day, play!
<daubers> popey: That in principle is a good thing :) Just hoping it get's extended to other retailers over time
<popey> it will
<oimon> we'll soon find out that the ubuntu referral code is actually popey's
<popey> hah, i wish :)
<oimon> amazon mp3 downloading is terrible nowadays
<oimon> on linux
<oimon> i resort to using clamz
<popey> surely thats the sensible thing to do anyway?
<popey> use the right app for the job
<oimon> bit harder to tell the wife
<oimon> over the phone
<oimon> banshee used to do it nicely, but it's annoying to have massive app for that.
<oimon> and it was crashy
 * bigcalm sets up a vm for unity on fredora
<bigcalm> It's at times like these that I wish I had a larger SSD in my workstation
<bigcalm> s/fredora/fedora
<theopensourcerer> Amazon on Unity will not affect me much as I rarely use dash(es) anyway. They just seem to be a superfluous layer of shiny that I have no need for whatsoever.
 * davmor2 suddenly has his eyes opened to the fact that theopensourcerer said superfluous and shiny in the same sentence, there is no such thing as too much shiny unless it is monitor/tv screens, wash your mouth out ;)
 * theopensourcerer is a very opaque and matt kind of guy.
<bigcalm> Kind of grey?
<christel> 50 shades of
 * theopensourcerer tinks the channel is about to veer OT again.
<bigcalm> 50 shares of Alans
 * AlanBell suspects kicking christel would not work well, so carry on ;)
<bigcalm> s/shares/shades
<bigcalm> I really struggled to write shades, most strange
<theopensourcerer> try raybans instead
<bigcalm> christel \o/
<christel> AlanBell: it would be mean and wrong, like kicking a puppy.
<bigcalm> christel: what does it mean when you do it to yourself?
<davmor2> bigcalm: you're a dipstick
<bigcalm> Hehe
<christel> it wasnt me, AlanBell must have hax0red freenode.
<davmor2> bigcalm: you're drunk?
<bigcalm> davmor2: but christel never gets drunk
<davmor2> bigcalm: Or incredibly clumsy
<christel> i think you've lost me
<davmor2> christel: that or bigcalm knows another christel :D
<christel> could be, could be
<bittin^work> time to go home and drink some tea before going out with a 13year older woman :D
<christel> hehe enjoy your older woman ;)
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> I thought it was a cat
<dwatkins> nothing wrong with going out with someone older :-p
<christel> you thought it was a cat...
<christel> what
<bigcalm> A 13 year old cat
<bigcalm> Quite old
<christel> true, but wouldn't it be a tad weird to go on a date with a cat
<dwatkins> depends... no if you were meeting this woman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTTwcCVajAc
<dwatkins> *not
<christel> haha <3
<bigcalm> Oh my
<pinky-> dwatkins, follwed by this video:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP4NMoJcFd4&NR=1&feature=fvwp
<dwatkins> pinky-: curse you, I'm going to have to go find some My Little Pony drum'n'bass remixes now to get that out of my head ;)
<dwatkins> haha it's hilarious though
<pinky-> hahaha
<NET||abuse> woah, wtf,,,, that chick is emm, got nice boobs..
<dwatkins> I blame your choice of nickname for my choice of alternative ;)
<Myrtti> AlanBell: *spoing*
<AlanBell> hi Myrtti
<NET||abuse> jeebus, she's nuts
<bigcalm> Coo, it's Myrtti
<dwatkins> ooh, this isn't too bad either
<dwatkins> "Pinkie Pie's Party Cannon - Drum and Bass Mix" - hours of fun, well an hour...
<directhex> ._.
<davmor2> apparently Myrtti has turning into zebedee oh wait no that was boing
<Myrtti> davmor2: it's a flu-ish ping
<NET||abuse> dwatkins: pinky- did you see the follow up to that video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDpc9g0Z4Hs&feature=fvwrel
<Myrtti> I don't have energy for a ping, so I did a sloppy spoing
 * pinky- clicks
<davmor2> Myrtti: ahaha
<christel> a spoing eh? is that a very wet and spongy kinda pingpong? :o
<pinky-> I'm a bit slow as I was listening to this. People power helped with cloud discovery http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19700699
<Myrtti> christel: I'm not in that stage yet
<NET||abuse> pinky-: i was thinking it was some cloud service discovery thing till i clicked the link
<pinky-> hehe:)
<dwatkins> brings new meaning to 'cloud storage'
<pinky-> NET||abuse, yeah lol I first clicked it thinking the same then sat there for 5 minutes with a blank mind
<NET||abuse> hehe, cloud appreciation society, that has to be the most important news of the week
<dwatkins> I can see a teapot...
<bigcalm> Status 418
<dwatkins> :D best HTTP status ever
 * dwatkins wonders what the criteria are to envoke this
<directhex> dwatkins, to invoke HTTP 418? attempting to use HTCPCP when the target device is a teapot, not a coffee pot
<directhex> as per RFC 2324:
<directhex>    Any attempt to brew coffee with a teapot should result in the error
<directhex>    code "418 I'm a teapot". The resulting entity body MAY be short and
<directhex>    stout.
<dwatkins> ah I see, of course :)
<Myrtti> meh, talking of tea, I can't find where my sister keeps the honey
<Myrtti> I can't do my traditional rosehip tisane with honey :-(
<diplo> exit
<diplo> oops
<ali1234> Monday, 2012-09-20, 17:00 UTC.
<ali1234> wat
<popey> oops
<zleap> erm how did it work that date out ?
<popey> ali1234, getting it fixed
<popey> thanks !
<ali1234> bit late now, don't you think?
<ali1234> i mean it's in 2 hours
<ali1234> unless it was last thursday
<popey> its today
<ali1234> that reminds me actually
<ali1234> i noticed the other day, that they've decided to go with grub2 on uefi
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> my post about that to ubuntu-developers is still awaiting moderation
<ali1234> after like 6 weeks
<popey> :(
<popey> cjwatson is the person to poke I suspect
<popey> maybe too late I guess :)
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it's pointless to post it now
<ali1234> there was never any risk of key disclosure
<ali1234> injunctions against selling the devices, yes
<ali1234> but you can't force someone to do something with the GPL. you can only force them to stop.
<AlanBell> anyone know how to talk directly with a USB printer as if it was an old style serial device?
<AlanBell> I want to send ESC/P instructions direct
<popey> echo "foo " > /dev/ttyS0 ?
<MartijnVdS> /dev/usblp0?
<popey> seems to be /dev/usb/lp1
<popey> on mine
<MartijnVdS> cat > /dev/usb/lp1
<MartijnVdS> then just type what needs typing
<MartijnVdS> of you want special "ESC" codes, use "echo -e \033foo" (033 = 0x1b = ESC)
<AlanBell> bash: /dev/usb/lp1: Permission denied
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ls -l, check against your id
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: or use sudo :)
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: that was with sudo
<MartijnVdS> wut
<Azelphur> gah, thunderbirds slowness is starting to annoy me :(
<MartijnVdS> ls -ld /dev/usb ?
<AlanBell> crw-rw---- 1 root lp 180, 1 Sep 24 17:58 /dev/usb/lp1
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 180 in Baz (deprecated) "No support for non-ascii characters in my-id" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180
<MartijnVdS> haha lubotu3 :)
<AlanBell> lulz
<AlanBell> well I can write text to it
<AlanBell> the thing does ESC/POS which is related to ESC/P but not quite the same
<AlanBell> sending stuff to it with lpr -o raw works, dunno what is up with the devices
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> hello
<czajkowski> hows folks this evening
<czajkowski> whats happening for the release party - not that I'll be hear
<davmor2> czajkowski: fair to middling
<AlanBell> czajkowski: looking into a venue that has been offered, otherwise there are a couple of pubs
<AlanBell> and wut!! not here??
<czajkowski> cool
<davmor2> hmmmmm FALCO ROCK ME AMA.....AMA......AMADEUS
<christel> AlanBell: i know, shocking isnt it?!
<davmor2> night all
<mattt> davmor2: later
<bigcalm> czajkowski: that's lovely :)
<Laney> I think I just developed a thing for Nigella
<bigcalm> Lawson?
<jacobw> uh, put it away ;)
<bigcalm> Only now?
<Laney> first time I've really seen any of her shows
<popey> heh
<mattt> she's annoying :-/
<popey> you know you're getting old when...
<mattt> i can't stand watching her on tv
<mattt> also
<popey> She's no match for Alex Politzi
<mattt> as my wife says
<Laney> I didn't find her annoying
<mattt> there's a reason she never shows full body shots :P
<Laney> haha
<Laney> meow :(
<popey> http://meow.popey.com/
<Laney> Only Connect is on Right Nowâ¢
<Laney> BBC 4. Watch it.
<Laney> wait, what, it's not?!?!?!?
<bigcalm> popey: Alex has such a stern face
<Laney> can I not read a TV guide? :(
<Laney> oh, it was 8.30. I was watching Nigella instead
<mattt> burn
<Laney> s'alright, iPlayer will save me
<mattt> so much for registering a .ie
<AlanBell> think I might have to make a .ppd file
<Azelphur> PC repair shop is saying to my cousin that the heatsink clamps snapped and caused the processor and motherboard to overheat and fry, sounds like bs to me?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ask to see it first
<MartijnVdS> It pays to take "Before" pics too
<Azelphur> I saw it a few days ago, I didn't notice any damage on the heatsink, but I didn't particularly look
<Azelphur> it certainly wasn't majorly damaged, it was definitely on there and in the right position
<MartijnVdS> then I'd ask to see it
<Azelphur> but I'm thinking even if it was damaged, surely the thermal protection would kick in?
<MartijnVdS> usually, yes..
<MartijnVdS> shady "repair place"?
<Azelphur> sounds like it
<Azelphur> "free diagnosis" :P
<AlanBell> Azelphur: why was it in for repair?
<Azelphur> AlanBell: it turns on, but doesn't display any image, I swapped out graphics, PSU, and tried removing most of the ram chips, so that kinda narrows it down to either the motherboard or the CPU
<Azelphur> so I said take it to a PC shop and ask them to diagnose which is dead
<AlanBell> ok, and they didn't have a processor to swap so decided "both" and made up a plausible sounding reason
<AlanBell> tbh, the bottom line is that it needs a new motherboard and processor
<Azelphur> indeed, sounds like it
<Azelphur> not worth replacing imo, it's a core 2 quad with 8GB DDR2 800
<Azelphur> might as well buy a new i3 board
<Azelphur> cheaper, faster
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> repair shops won't like saying "it is broken, we have no idea why"
<AlanBell> even though that is perfectly true, and there is no need to know why
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> I would have liked to have known which it was, but I didn't have the replacement parts either
<Azelphur> that's why I said take it to a PC store, tell em to find out if it's the CPU or the board
<em> I'm afraid I won't know how to begin.
<AlanBell> hi em
<em> Hey :)
<MartijnVdS> Zzz!
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1225378/ yeah
<AlanBell> heh, got your binary compatible kernel going ali1234?
<ali1234> well i managed to build an identical kernel
<ali1234> i still need to add ipv6 support to it. when i do the build fails
<ali1234> i can't build the uclibc either, and that needs patching for ipv6
<ali1234> the build scripts don't work on new gcc
<AlanBell> I do hope this ends up being worth the effort for you!
<ali1234> and when i build it on old gcc, it makes the kernel build fail with weird asm errors
<ali1234> looks like the build system has a nfs mode, i'm trying to set that up
<ali1234> the build system is basically the broadcom BSP
<ali1234> with foxconn acos tacked on
<ali1234> and then a netgear web interface tacked on top of that
<ali1234> the whole thing is a complete mess
<ali1234> most of it doesn't even work properly
<mgdm> what's the hardware, if I can ask?
<ali1234> it's full of hardcoded paths to /home/finerain/
<ali1234> and only works properly if you run the entire build as root
<ali1234> oh and make clean destroys files that can't be rebuilt due to missing source
<ali1234> so i have to delete/unpack again every time i make a mistake
<ali1234> even the kernel build won't work standalone
<ali1234> because they patched the makefile to pull in the proprietary modules
<ali1234> if you run make in kernel tree like normal it crashes out because of missing environment variables from the monster top level makefile
<ali1234> netgear DGND3700
<ali1234> it's not really very hard to see why netgear official firmware updates introduce as many bugs as they fix
<ali1234> the netgear product specs talks about how it has a "powerful dual core"
<ali1234> but the kernel is not build for SMP
<ali1234> so the second core is never used
<popey> AlanBell, is there no windows or mac driver?
<AlanBell> popey: there is a windows driver
<AlanBell> and quite good documentation
<popey> what make / model is it?
<popey> is it new or 2nd hand?
<AlanBell> new
<AlanBell> cheap chinese thing
<popey> AlanBell, can you set single line spacing?
<AlanBell> I am not sure how
<popey> ESC 0 Select 1/8-inch line spacing â¢ â¢ â¢ C-51
<popey> ESC 2 Select 1/6-inch line spacing â¢ â¢ â¢ C-53
<popey> ESC 3 Set n/180-inch line spacing â¢ â¢ â C-55
<popey> ESC 3 Set n/216-inch line spacing â â â¢ C-56
<popey> ESC + Set n/360-inch line spacing â¢ â¢ â C-57
<popey> oops
<popey> middle dot is esc/p
<popey> left dot is esc/p2
<WebPigeo1> what blew up :/
<bittin__> hmm i went to a date with a girl in Sweden today, and now i have 2 tickets to UK :p
<popey> bittin, is that good or bad? :)
<bittin> popey, okay i guess
<bittin> would be anymore good if i could stay somewhere on my UK vacation in December, but i guess i can short that out
<bittin> UK is far away anyways, so i guess i will make somone sad
<bittin> but well worse things has happend
 * AlanBell gets http://code.google.com/p/python-escpos/ working (kind of)
<AlanBell> oh, I printed out an Ubuntu UK podcast logo on it
<AlanBell> because it happened to be a file I found called logo.png
 * xnox has join/part messages hidden, so I missed out on all the fun =(
<bittin> i should try to stop think about the woman and go the fuck to bed
<Danno_> is there any way to make ubuntu treat a long press on the screen as a right click?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-25
<ali1234> not any more
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/mousetweaks/+bug/762806
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 762806 in mousetweaks (Ubuntu Natty) "[regression] shipped mousetweaks (3.0) does not work with shipped control-center (2.32), needs downgrade" [High,Triaged]
<ali1234> apparently it's fixed
<em> its suddenly getting late
<Azelphur> just a tad
<Azelphur> have some music to keep you going http://youtu.be/lMWmi9ovX7M
<MartijnVdS> </world> -- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/24/bacon-sausage-shortage_n_1909609.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003
<insync> hi is this the ukrainian channel?
<knightwise> mornin
<christel> morning :)
<knightwise> morning christel
<christel> how are you knightwise ? :)
<knightwise> how are you today
<christel> not too bad! not quite as awake as i'd like to be (as evidenced by pouring a cup of coffee down myself)
<AlanChicken> morning
<knightwise> doing fine    irc'ing over ssh on my linux server from my android phone
<knightwise> mmmm coffeeeeeeee
<AlanBell> thats better
<knightwise> hey alanbell
<knightwise> hmmm been tinkering with hfs+yesterday
<knightwise> want a shared partition both my mac and linux os can write to
<knightwise> kinda works but still a little dicy when it comes to file rights and stuff
<knightwise> hey popey
<knightwise> popey  you dont happen to be free for an hour tomorrow night for that interview i have been bugging you about ?
<popey> :)
<popey> sure
<popey> 19:00 UTC is best for me
<knightwise> that would be 2100 hours brussels time ?
<knightwise> perfect   ill send you an invite
<popey> ta, send it to alan.pope@canonical.com pls
<knightwise> done :)
<popey> ta
<mattt> morning
<knightwise> hey matt
<mattt> knightwise: how's things?
<knightwise> doin fine   working on the next podcast and stuff
<MartijnVdS> Would a podcast from Australia be an antipod(e)cast?
<elfy> lol
<knightwise> lol   dont know   i have done several with aussies though
<knightwise> hey ivanka
<knightwise> brb /quit
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> From peeps in the know, how do i list users in irssi ?
<MartijnVdS> diplo: /list
<diplo> ta fanx
<MartijnVdS> or /who
<diplo> list doesn't seem to work, when i log in they are in a small grouping like [name] [name] etc
<MartijnVdS>  /names  then?
<diplo> ah yes that's it ta!
<diplo> I really seem to suck at Goo Foo at the mo
 * diplo puts it down to lack of sleep
<ivanka> hi knightwise
<Laney> who's on Virgin?
<Laney> try http://alioth.debian.org please
<AlanBell> popey: will there be a new unity landing soon?
<AlanBell> getting a bit bored of having no window decorations
<popey> its not broken
<popey> fix your machine :)
<popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<Laney> why would you need to install the task and not the metapackage?
<popey> the metapackage doesn't pull stuff in, the task does
<Laney> confused dot com
<popey> if you (for example) do a dist upgrade which (due to archive skew) removes unity & friends, then reinstalling ubuntu-desktop will do nothing
<popey> installing the task will re-pull in the deps
<Laney> if it removes unity then it removes ubuntu-desktop
<popey> not always
<popey> and even if it does, re-installing ubuntu-desktop doesn't reinstall unity
<popey> i have had this happen numerous times this cycle (and past cycles)
<Laney> i certainly hope it does, otherwise Depends aren't working
<Laney> recommends not so, but they shouldn't break things like window decorations
 * mattt holds onto his butt
<popey> AlanBell, fixored?
<popey> either way, plan is to release another stack next week
<AlanBell> that did pull in unity-webapps-common, lets give unity a prod and see what happens
<AlanBell> nope, not fixored
<diplo> Laney: Still need the url checked ?
<Laney> oui
<diplo> https://alioth.debian.org/themes/gforge/images/header/top-logo.png
<diplo> Icon is missing
<Laney> I just want to know if it works
<diplo> But other than that it loads fine. Loads fine though
<diplo> yeah clicked lot's of links and all seems to load / work ok
<popey> AlanBell, what version of bamf do you have installed?
<popey> apt-cache policy bamfdaemon
<Laney> traceroute to alioth.debian.org (217.196.43.134), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets 1  cpc3-clif9-2-0-gw.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com (82.2.118.1)  15.130 ms  15.127 ms  16.622 ms 2  nott-core-2a-ae7-1387.network.virginmedia.net (62.255.229.13)  20.256 ms  20.273 ms  20.235 ms^C
<AlanBell>   Installed: 0.3.0-0ubuntu2
<Laney> [ NO MORE ]
<Laney> :(
<bigcalm> Grumble morning peeps :)
<popey> what about libbamf0 and libbamf3-0 ?
<AlanBell> popey: all the same
<popey> AlanBell, do you have a /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libunity-webapps.so.0 ?
<popey> if you run "dpkg -L libunity-webapps0 | grep so" does it show as one of the files installed?
<AlanBell> I do have /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libunity-webapps.so.0
<popey> ok, logout / login
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1226167/
<popey> looks good
<JamesTait> Oh yes, good morning all! :)
<bigcalm> Staffers are so polite :)
<AlanBell> popey: still borked
<popey> pastebin .xsession-errors pls?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1226172/
<AlanBell> affects guest session too
<popey> AlanBell, apt-cache policy compiz
<popey> pastebin the whole thing pls
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1226176/
<popey> i suspect this is a byproduct of you using timos ppa for a while
<AlanBell> so do I
<popey> AlanBell, apt-cache policy compiz-gnome    pls
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1226181/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bittin^work> hi
<brobostigon> hi bittin^work
<popey> AlanBell, same for libdecoration0 ?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1226197/
<bigcalm> Is spotify broken for anybody else right now?
<popey> AlanBell, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1226208/
<popey> see if that re-downloads from the right places (i.e. no PPAs etc
<ali1234> bigcalm: working for me
<popey> wfm too
<bigcalm> And you can play tracks?
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> Sods law, I can now as well
 * bigcalm shakes a fist at the goblins jumping on the internet tubes
<bigcalm> Thanks guys
<AlanBell> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1226209/
<AlanBell> no PPA I can see, and still broken in a guest session
<popey> hmm
<popey> can you file a bug pls against compiz?
<ali1234> i haven't had a single compiz problem since downgrading
<ali1234> i kind of miss reporting bugs actually
<AlanBell> yeah, but I want the new shiny
<AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1056044
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1056044 in compiz (Ubuntu) "lost window decorations" [Undecided,New]
<AlanBell> UpgradeStatus: Upgraded to quantal on 2012-06-21 (95 days ago) <- brave
<popey> this social bit of spotify where it tells you what friends listen to... I am listening to dubstar thanks to laney :)
<popey> might connect spotify to my fb account :S
<popey> but then I'll get loads of 80's tat from davmor2
<popey> :)
<ali1234> dubstar
<ali1234> are they still going?
<bigcalm> Haha
<Laney> (H)
<Laney> it's this playlist: http://open.spotify.com/user/joellevandyne/playlist/6qWx4r20Pyx2GEtvccAEW3
 * daubers loads his old school CD 
<Laney> the first song is such a great tune
<bigcalm> Their last album was in 2007 and titled Goodbye
<Laney> I listen to it all the time
<bittin^work> i clicked on Laneys link by mistake :(
<Laney> what?
<bittin^work> but when i think about it i seem to be more in that mood then Âµ-ziq mode
<popey> laney is actually the only person listed in my spotify
<ali1234> white town
<Laney> yeah
<ali1234> i bought that on CD single
<ali1234> lolz
<ali1234> oh gorky's
<bittin^work> i can never be your woman
<ali1234> rancid, deus... it's back to the 90s school disco
<ali1234> "alternative edition"
<bittin^work> Dubstar sounds like an UK version of T.a.T.U
<directhex> ._.
<ali1234> wat
<bittin^work> the start of that song did
<popey> "I was making myself the usual cup of tea when the doorbell strangely rang"
<popey> *snort*
<bittin^work> Laney, nice playlist =)
<Laney> tis
<Laney> I can't claim credit though
<knightwise> strangely rang ?
<Laney> http://open.spotify.com/user/seaninsound/playlist/1kh9rRntsjAirYNFMMMgtf
<Laney> try that one too
<bittin^work> Laney, nah not really my stuff
<bigcalm> I'm confused by the spotify interface. I don't seem to be able to find/add new people within the client
<Laney> I do spotify:user:username in the search box
<ali1234> bigcalm: it's facebooky
<bigcalm> ali1234: I refuse to link my facebook account. Maybe that's it
<hoover> hi folks
<ali1234> probably
<bittin^work> as Laney said
<bigcalm> I have 5 people in my list, but cannie add new peeps
<popey> bigcalm, are you bigcalm?
<popey> that sounds dumb
<bigcalm> popey: I do believe I am
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> bigcalm, are you bigcalm on spotify?
<bigcalm> popey: yes ;)
 * popey adds
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> How did you do so?
<bittin^work> i have like 2 in my list
<popey> did what laney said
<bittin^work> 3
 * bigcalm reads up
<bittin^work> :p
<popey> spotify:user:popeydc
<popey> is me
<bigcalm> popey data centre
<popey> dot com
<bigcalm> Bah
<bigcalm> I wonder if I can add my avatar without being on facebook
<bigcalm> Don't see how, oh well
<diplo> :P
<diplo> You lot just made me download it :)
<ali1234> i don't even know what is my spotify user name
<daubers> popey: You're now related to the megaupload guy?!?!?!?!?!
<bigcalm> ali1234: says top right of your spotify client
<diplo> heh ali1234, I just had to check keepassx :D
<ali1234> it just says my full name taken from facebook
<bigcalm> Ah
<popey> i did connect my spotify to fb in the past then disconnected it
 * bigcalm loads VB 2010 Express for the 1st time in many many months
<bigcalm> Hope I remember how to use it
<ali1234> i made a new account rather than link my old one
<popey> is that because people may discover your internet alter-ego is jef?
<ali1234> jef spaleta?
<ali1234> (is that how you spell it?)
<popey> i think so
<ali1234> i like to think i have better grammar
<directhex> VB? ._.
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> directhex: VB
<directhex> VB? ._.
<bigcalm> directhex: I had to write a socket service for a windows server. VB was the quickest way of doing so. I'm not proud of it
<bigcalm> Almost 5 months to the day since I last built it
<directhex> VB? ._.
 * bigcalm kippers directhex 
<bigcalm> Yes, I wanted to do it in PHP, but couldn't get the encryption method to work the same way as the VB version
<ali1234> PHP? ._.
<bigcalm> Screw you guys, I'm going home
 * directhex high-fives ali1234 
<davmor2> Morning all
<hoover> morning davmor2
<popey> directhex, shame unity3d doesn't run on linux as a dev platform, know if they play to port it?
<directhex> popey, i reckon it'll depend on customer demand. the code editor already works fine on linux (it's a mildly forked monodevelop), but the main IDE - level editor etc - would need porting
<directhex> i assume it's already fairly portable from when they ported to windows from mac
<popey> looks neat
 * daubers might have a play with Unity3D over lunch
<daubers> it's c# isn't it?
<directhex> you can write your games in c#, boo, or javascript
<popey> i think it supports a number of languages for scripting...
<directhex> i assume they have their own javascript to .net compiler
<popey> ooh, they have #unity3d
<ali1234> no native API?
<directhex> ali1234, sure. C# and P/Invoke!
<directhex> note: p/invoke may not be available in unity's cut down class library
<ali1234> is it easy to wrap C libs for .net?
<directhex> pure C? yes
<directhex> C++ is hard
<AlanBell> popey: fixored :)
<popey> how?
<AlanBell> I had a /usr/local/lib/libdecoration.so
<popey> erk
<popey> where did that come from?
<AlanBell> well . . .
<ali1234> does unity support procedural geometry?
<AlanBell> it may have been there quite some time, I was rebuilding compiz with text tracking zoom
<popey> plum
<ali1234> as in "here's an array of points and triangles, this is my object"
<AlanBell> the new version required new symbols which were not in that on
<directhex> http://unity3d.com/support/resources/example-projects/procedural-examples ?
<ali1234> yeah, none of that appears to do that. i guess what i really need is custom mesh loaders
<directhex> http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/ScriptReference/Mesh.html ?
<popey> AlanBell, glad its all fixed now and it was down to your incompetence and not ours :D
<ali1234> yeah, that's the one
<AlanBell> popey: I too am glad of my incompetence
<popey> \o/
<directhex> popey, ultimately i think there's a *lot* of "testing the water" looking at linux for games right now. pretty much all of it can be attributed to humble bundles, imho.
<popey> yeah, i agree
<popey> steam porting over helps
<bittin^work> i want the beta =(
<directhex> so humble bundles convince unity corp to finish their kinda sorta toy linux port, and promise it in unity 4.0; every game kickstarter starts to promise a linux port since it's a 1-click effort when they're already using unity
<directhex> steam on linux, plus steam big picture, make for compelling steam set-top-box running linux arguments
<directhex> every unity game on steam starts shipping a linux port
<directhex> lots and lots of water testing
<directhex> oh, and torque3d went MIT a few days ago, mustn't discount that
<directhex> torque is the engine in SPAZ from the latest humble bundle
<directhex> and also marble blast ultra on 360
<popey> 11769 alan      20   0 1866m 149m  23m R  211  1.9   0:46.66 Unity.exe
<ali1234> spaz has the worst voice acting i've ever heard in a commercial game
<ali1234> it's even worse than the voices in anomaly: warzone earth
<davmor2> ali1234: please just for once say you like something just so I know you can
<ali1234> and the worst part is you can't skip the talking bits until the guy finishes mumbling through
<ali1234> didn't like the game much either
<directhex> ali1234, i think it's "totalbiscuit" from youtube
<ali1234> i liked the shatter soundtrack
<ali1234> and the bosses are fun
<directhex> shatter is a nice twist on the breakout formula
<directhex> more interesting than the last breakout clone i played, WizOrb
<directhex> (a MonoGame game, linux port on desura)
<ali1234> all levels except for the bosses can be beaten by holding the right mouse button and waiting :/
<popey> directhex, unity3d almost works in wine, barfs during initial setup post-install, trying to copy some demo files about :(
<popey> hmm, spotify keeps playing a fraction of the next track in the list, but because I'm in shuffle mode it then stops and leaps to another track
 * popey unticks 'gapless playback'
<Laney> oh I do love being on hold to virgin media
<Dave2> shatter has a default keybinding for a key I don't have
<Dave2> and no in-game control remapping
<Dave2> that was slightly annoying
<davmor2> Laney: is that cause you get to pick your own music?
<Laney> I refused to and then I got defaulted to pop
<Laney> it sounds hideous on speaker phone
<ali1234> Dave2: shatter has a external settings editor
<davmor2> Dave2: Shatter uses just he mouse and shift unless there is more further down the line
<Dave2> It does, but that's not very useful when you get to the boss and it says "oh use this key to fire loads of bullets"!
<Dave2> -!
<Dave2> davmor2: it uses more than that
<ali1234> it's also the only way to change the screen rez
<Dave2> Indeed
<Laney> apparently it might take up to 20 minutes
<ali1234> for be it runs in a tiny postage stamp with huge black borders. like all the games in this bundle in fact.
<ali1234> but they all seem to have different weird ways of changing that
<ali1234> so it's at least fixable this time
<directhex> ali1234, changing resolution is hard
<ali1234> i know right
<directhex> on linux anyway
<Dave2> for me it ran full-screen at 640x480 on my 1920x1200 24" monitor
<ali1234> well changing resolution makes no sense anyway
<Dave2> it wasn't very pleasant
<ali1234> i hate games that do that
<ali1234> yeah same here
<ali1234> changing resolution might be hard
<Dave2> I thought you said it ran with massive borders. By fullscreen I mean fullscreen.
<directhex> ali1234, some people have toy graphics cards, like intel, which can't really cope with minesweeper fullscreen, let alone 3d games
<ali1234> detectng the current screen mode is not
<ali1234> Dave2: oh you mean it actually changed screen mode?
<Dave2> Yes
<ali1234> for me it ran at 640x480 on a 1920x1200 screen mode, with borders
<ali1234> i don't allow any software to change screen mode on my system, becuase most often it knocks out the second monitor
<ali1234> then when it crashes you can't change back
<directhex> ctrl-alt-numpadplus
<ali1234> that never works, because the games always grab the input devices in raw mode
<popey> nikki and the robots changes resolution perfectly
<popey> (for me)
<ali1234> yeah for me it would just do the same thing
<BigRedS> Is there some way I can use gnome-shell's power management config thingy in Unity? I'm assuming they both adjust hte same things in the bowels of gnome3
<diplo> blimey popey, spending some pennies on your server :)
<popey> yeah, finally decided to upgrade it
<popey> had 4x2TB sat in a drawer for too long
<diplo> I'd love to do something like that but way out of my price range
<popey> since I binned the drobo :)
<diplo> Could have donated them :D
<diplo> Still waiting for them to drop to the price I bought my previous 2 for
<diplo> Want to make mine a 4 disk setup, but if i buy them now it'll cost me 40 pound more, I just don't have that much spare to spend on me :/
<knightwise> :)
<knightwise> 0/
<oimon> popey, did you literally bin the drobo or find a buyer on ebay?
<popey> sold it
<oimon> good Â£?
<popey> better than nothing
<oimon> your HP server is software raid or HW?
<popey> btrfs, so neither :)
<popey> but software redundancy
<directhex> butterfs. because fsck's for wusses!
<popey> it has fsck :p
<popey> although I neve use it :)
<oimon> ahhh that's better. closed enough tabs to actually see the favicons in chrome
<davmor2> popey: but how do you cope without the pleasure of watching the raid rebuild?
<bootinfdsds> Hi AlanBell, I like your thermal printer thingy post today ... Does anyone have any idea on my Dymo 330 printer post  ( on the same post as yours )
<AlanBell> bootinfdsds: is it an esc/pos printer?
<bootinfdsds> No it is the basic dymo 330 thermal printer , If I found a way to use  in on Ubuntu then I could print out address labels for my letters, and so could everyone.
<bootinfdsds> I kinda stuck.
<bootinfdsds> **I'm
<davmor2> bootinfdsds: did you try this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=861781
<bootinfdsds> opening...
<bootinfdsds> davmor2, Bookmarking .. thank-you.
<diplo> Anyone tinker much with Django in here ?
<popey> davmor2, there are tools for that too on btrfs :)
<diplo> Want to try utilising it, first task is to display all images from a set directory, don't want to add them just display them
<davmor2> diplo: there are some really good guide on the main django site, I'm just starting to read through setting up a site with it :)
<diplo> yeah set up looks easy, more specifically after a module for the images or whether i write my own
<diplo> Might just go for my own, biggest issue I've had with django so far is loads of tutorials, but there aren't many demos of the modules working
<diplo> :/
<davmor2> diplo: have a look on youtube
<diplo> Good point, saw tutorials for install on there but hadn't looked for gallery apps
<diplo> Most of the peeps need some help from popey to do tutorials :P
<diplo> You using it for anything in particular davmor2 ? Or just learning it ?
<davmor2> diplo: just learning it, because it is using python
<diplo> You using it inside virtual enviroment package ?
<hoover> cheers all
 * AlanBell facepalms at bug 1055766
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1055766 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "grep -R doesn't automatically search amazon" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055766
<diplo> lol
<davmor2> AlanBell: you mean it shouldn't?
<einonm> lol...that makes me wonder if there's anything akin to RFC's for ubuntu changes? Or does Canonical simply dictate and respond to any backlash?
<AlanBell> that would be what UDS is
<AlanBell> and blueprints
<einonm> ok, thanks...I will google
<davmor2> diplo: No I'm just reading through it at the minute I'll be having a play with it in a LXC to have a play with it
<einonm> Hmm..not much there... https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu?searchtext=amazon+lens
<AlanBell> well no, a feature this small might not have a blueprint all to itself
<AlanBell> this is a couple of afternoons work
<davmor2> einonm: it might be under webapps
<einonm> but an RFC on a kernel mailing list, for example, doesn't depend on work size but potential impact
<einonm> davmor2: webapps as part of ubuntu, or is that another site?
<einonm> ..part of blueprints, soz
<davmor2> webapps blueprint possibly
<davmor2> einonm: that or Lens blueprints
<einonm> so my search in the TLD for blueprints doesn't find lens or webapps blueprints as well?
<AlanBell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/onehundredscopes/+spec/ohs-quantal
<AlanBell> no shopping there, but really there are hundreds of lenses, Amazon is just a little one that is easy to do
<einonm> Thanks. Ooh, adult lens? I say.
<AlanBell> yes indeed, I based an OpenERP lens on that one
<einonm> does that data get sent back to ubuntu servers as well? ;)
<AlanBell> was quite a good framework and I was quite careful to make sure I understood all of it and didn't leave any bits behind
<AlanBell> no, with my openERP lens you would point it at the xmlrpc entry point of your local server
<davmor2> einonm: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses/Ideas
<AlanBell> the adult lens I think queried the API of whatever site it was connected to (I never ran it, just read the code)
<einonm> AlanBell: sure. I had to google a few terms there, but I get the gist of it.
<AlanBell> so yes, if that returned results to the global scope then it would be sending off queries to dodgy places
<ali1234> this idea of search aggregation didn't work when it was called web portals and it isn't going to work on the desktop eiher
<AlanBell> depends on your success criteria
<ali1234> nobody, and i mean absolutely nobody at all, uses google desktop. which is basically the same thing as unity dash, except better
<einonm> ali1234: I probably agree. It's like android apps. THe question I always ask is, can this be replaced by a webpage? If so, it's a bit useless
<einonm> People understand webpages and trust them (rightly or wrongly). It's not the same with apps
<einonm> android apps are sometimes jumped up webpages with too much power over your phone
<ali1234> that's far from the only problem
<ali1234> putting all the searches in to one place sounds convenient but in the end you just get a cluttered mess
<einonm> ..and things happening behind the scenes that you can't control easily
<ali1234> it's much easier to refine your search by going to the place where you know the thing you are looking for is
<mungojerry> ali1234, i used goog desktop when i used windows (>5 years ago)
<ali1234> the difference between unity and traditional desktops is like this
<mungojerry> i needed it to search emails in outlook effectively
<AlanBell> there is a real architectural problem with unity lenses which allow evil lens writers to scoop up global search queries and do imaginative things with them. Canonical and Amazon are not the ones to be scared of.
<ali1234> traditional desktops: you want a pair of shoes so you go to the cupboard and get them
<ali1234> unity: you want a pair of shoes so you describe them to a man who goes and looks through your cupboard and finds them. while he's there he also looks at everything else in your cupboard. then he returns with every pair of shoes he found, including all of your wifes. and then he tries to sell you new shoes from amazon
<mungojerry> ali1234, more like, ask wife, any there any shoes in the cupboard? she shouts back yes, your favourite ones, the ones you used the other day and your wellies. btw you have holes in your shoes so i think you should get some new ones
<pinky-> I've often wondered how much Amazon pay Canonical?
 * AlanBell calls the analogy police
<AlanBell> pinky-: totally standard affiliate rates
<mungojerry> i care so little about this amazon dash shenanigans its untrue
<ali1234> yeah that's really the least terrible part of the whole thing
<mungojerry> don't use it (not on principle), don't care. might use it one day, still don't care
<einonm> It's strange that no one seemed to mind when firefox (and ubuntu?) Have their own google homepages, which has a revenue stream associated, if I'm correct?
<ali1234> the worst thing is when the guy comes back with 18 pairs of shoes, none of which were what you actually wanted, and you're like, "no, no, the BROWN ones" but it's like he just doesn't get it
<mungojerry> most of the people making the noise are not ubuntu dash users, so should be quiet
<ali1234> and he starts coming back with like brown shirts and stuff
<AlanBell> the fact that categories in lenses have to be hard coded is annoying
<christel> ali1234: lol
<ali1234> and you know exactly where the shoes are, but the guy won't let you just go and get them, because he wants to help you so much
<mungojerry> ali1234, to be fair, my experience of dash is, type terminal, hit return.
<ali1234> so you just get really frustrated with him, even though he's trying really hard to help you
<einonm> ali1234: Hopefully not the ones with certain political party emblems on the sleeve
<mungojerry> ali1234, it's sort of based on the philosophy of abstracting the file system and app menu so you shouldn't have to care where stuff is.
<mungojerry> but my mp3 collection is in folders cos the metadata is a bit shagged
<mungojerry> and 20 of the albums seem to show the album cover of some rapper who i've never owned an album of
<mungojerry> did anyone make a lens manager to easily turn lenses on and off
<SuperEngineer> mungojerry:  - yes
 * SuperEngineer checks for location
<SuperEngineer> mungojerry: it's called "lens toggle"
<SuperEngineer> [via a ppa if a recall correctly]
<mungojerry> oh yeah, http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-t7-4Olu8VEo/T-HTKPeZulI/AAAAAAAAJJQ/uy0FXU4hOS8/s320/lens-toggle.png
<mungojerry> ugly but does the job i guess
<AlanBell> I wouldn't be surprised if a pretty one arrives really soon
<SuperEngineer> pretty it's not but it works http://ubuntuportal.com/2012/06/lens-toggle-useful-apps-to-enabledisable-unity-lenses.html
<SuperEngineer> [same as your piccy]
<SuperEngineer> "beware ppa" rules apply ;)
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dylanmccall/mockups/unity-settings-panel-applications-dylanmccall-1.png
<mungojerry> bit nicer
<mungojerry> oh it's a mockup
<AlanBell> yes, but a little less real
<AlanBell> 15:40 < AlanBell> I wouldn't be surprised if a pretty one arrives really soon
<SuperEngineer> but if it gets built - AlanBell's is prettier - and hopefully won't be ppa
<AlanBell> not mine
<AlanBell> the critical thing is enforcing the show results in dash home thing
<SuperEngineer> ok - Mr. AlanBell a.k.a. pendantic, I was trying to compliment your research being better than mine
 * SuperEngineer cries
<SuperEngineer> *pedantic btw nor pendantic... that would make a good search!
<AlanBell> that should be implemented by not doing the callback to the lens on_search_changed function unless you have selected that lens
<AlanBell> if it is an optional feature that the lens is supposed to support then it is still a problem
<einonm> Going back to my original question, "if there's anything akin to RFC's for ubuntu changes?", I'm assuming the answer to that is a no.
<ali1234> no
<czajkowski> einonm: no we dont have RFC, we have blueprints
<AlanBell> depends what you mean by "akin"
<AlanBell> there are blueprints and UDS sessions which plan out the intended work for the cycle
<AlanBell> people can get involved at that point and make comments (that kind of is the Request For Comments)
<einonm> Principally something that's as open as kernel mailing list RFC's, and allow any interested parties to have a say before acceptance
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> you totally can
<czajkowski> blueprints are open
<czajkowski> as is UDS
<czajkowski> sessions are streamed live thre is interaction
<einonm> I had a look at the blueprints, and have come across a few pages that were forbidden for me to view, and I don't understand how the green 'Approved' status gets added, so I'm feeling a bit sceptical about that ATM. I'll have to read up some more.
<AlanBell> I have *no* idea what a kernel RFC is, or where to find one
<AlanBell> they can't possibly exist
<einonm> No, not like the internet ones - just an email with a patch or idea for discussion, They appear on most of the kernel related mailing lists (look for subject: [RFC].....)
<AlanBell> but but I am not on that mailing list, it is a secret from me!
<einonm> you can choose to be, or lust look at the public logs of the list. You are being pedantic!
<AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-September/thread.html
<ali1234> AlanBell: pretty much every post on that list follows the same format: "this is what we've decided, if you don't like it, tough"
<ali1234> same goes for ayatana list
<AlanBell> yes, unity-design did get rather broken
<ali1234> AlanBell: did you see the recent announcement of the u-turb on grub 2?
<directhex> i love u-turbs!
<ali1234> neither the original decision nor the change was ever discussed publicly
<ali1234> u-turbs!!
<einonm> That list looks like a start...more like what I'm used to
<AlanBell> ali1234: yes, and I don't disagree with you on that at all
<AlanBell> there *are* real problems with stuff arriving undiscussed
<einonm> AlanBell: I'm not trying to criticize any ubuntu  methods (yet...!), just curious as to how it works
<ali1234> i am
<ali1234> the individuals behind ubuntu are good people but when they get together as a group they are extremely insular and will reject any outside influences
<popey> completely fair comment
<popey> i dont think the last bit is entirely fair though
<ali1234> this goes for most groups really, it's just human nature
<einonm> ali1234: that's why it's called a community! I'm not too bothered about social characteristics, which can ebb and flow, more the basic mechanisms
<popey> many of us to take on board what people say, and bring up external stuff at internal meetings
<popey> I know I've brought up comments made in irc public channels in company meetings
<ali1234> einonm: "community" means different things to different people
<czajkowski> ali1234: I think that's a bit harsh and a bit of an over statement tbh, they do take on feedback
<czajkowski> you may not like the fact they don't take on your suggestion, but that doesnt mean it's not listened to either
<ali1234> i'm still not sure whether i am a part of the ubuntu community or not
<ali1234> it seems like when i agree with what sabdfl says i am a part of the community. and when i disagree, i am not
<czajkowski> ali1234: not everyone agrees which is fine, but do you even run unity ? You don't seem to liek much stuff that is done
<ali1234> luckily, i've never been the type of person who cares about being accepted by his peers :P
<ali1234> czajkowski: yes, actually i ran unity for over a year
<ali1234> in that time i reported many many bugs too
<ali1234> since that's usually the next question you ask when trying to silence dissent. "have you reported a bug?"
<czajkowski> who's trying to silence you
<czajkowski> reporting bugs is good
<ali1234> you are
<ali1234> "do you even run <x>?" is a classic shut-down
<czajkowski> I do find some of the bugs people report are their feeling/opinions on things when perhaps they don't know all the facts or are not devs
<ali1234> "have you reported a bug?" is another, and "are you using SVN/PPA?" is another
<czajkowski> ali1234: no it's a question not a shut down , if you view it that way, perhaps you've engaged with people who maybe don't want to engage
<popey> I am disappointed ali1234 doesn't run unity tbh. I value his feedback.
<popey> and i remember when ali1234 did run unity, he was quick to file and confirm other peoples bugs too
<popey> but I understand why you dont
<popey> hey ho
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> btw if folks wwant to listen in
<popey> I appreciate feedback from people who actually run our stuff and encounter problems
<czajkowski> live webinar going on now
<czajkowski> http://www.brighttalk.com/webcast/6793/54729
 * popey points and laughs at czajkowski 
<popey> you said "webinar"
<czajkowski> :s
<xnox> being a bit of a rebel is a trait of our community it includes everyone: lubuntu, kubuntu, gnome remix, whatnot. internally we don't always agree with each other about everything, but to external entities we are simply unstoppable.
<czajkowski> they are webinars
<davmor2> czajkowski: he's winding you up very easily I might add :)
<czajkowski> no was wondering in case I used the wrong word
<czajkowski> it's been a long day
<mungojerry> is there a way to use "save as.." in gimp rather than "export" to get png/jpeg? muscle memory means i forget every time and it's annoying
<popey> disappointed that uncyclopedia doesn't have an entry for webinar
<popey> not in latest I don't think
<ali1234> get used to it. the new exprt thing is genius
<ali1234> it's better than what photoshop does
<ali1234> foss actually invented something totally original and actually good. amazing
<ali1234> see, i do like change, when it is an improvement
<mungojerry> huh? save as used to do the same thing right?
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> see you have the native format (xcf, or psd) and then the target format, right?
<ali1234> so with the old way it only remembers one of the filenames
<ali1234> so you had to save as twice every single time you modified the file
<ali1234> with the new way it remembers both filenames/formats
<ali1234> so you only have to just do "save", "export" and not change the format every time
<ali1234> this only applies if you are making a jpeg, and need to save the source layers in the xcf as well. but that's nearly everyone
<ali1234> if you just want to edit a jpeg then there's an "ovrwrite" option that saves over the original file like "save" used to
 * popey falls over at ali1234 liking something
<ali1234> i thought i would dislike the new way,but when i tried it i found out they actually thought about it ahead and fixed all the problems that i expected
 * czajkowski props popey up and hands him a mug of tea to recover
<ali1234> i expect to dislike everything though
<ali1234> that way i am never disappointed and sometimes i get a nice surprise
<einonm> ali1234: That sounds like a glass half empty kind of thinking
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i always assume the glass is completely empty
<ali1234> until i have evidence to the contrary :)
<ali1234> that's not the same thing at all
<ali1234> single window mode was a huge let down btw
<AlanBell> ali1234: I am actually liking the single window implementation in gimp
<ali1234> i was expecting MDI
<ali1234> instead i got "you can only view one image at a time"
<ali1234> it's really bizarre
<AlanBell> ah, OK
<ali1234> it's basically like normal gimp but with an arbitrary limitation on opening only one file at a time
<AlanBell> and the toolbars dock to the image
<AlanBell> you get tabs for the images
<Azelphur> Amazon logic, if it don't fit in the box, cut the top off https://www.dropbox.com/s/ase3a2wuxyicnvf/2012-09-25%2016.38.19.jpg?m
<Azelphur> xD
<AlanBell> I like it, I thought I wouldn't because I have always used gimp
<AlanBell> I figured the single window thing was just people who had used photoshop and hated change
<AlanBell> but I actually like it
<mungojerry> ali1234, the single window mode has cuased me to use gimp probably 3x more
<ali1234> no, photoshop users will hate it as much as the old stuff
<ali1234> well, photoshop power users, the ones who are always complaining :)
<AlanBell> yeah, they will complain anyway
<ali1234> i just docked every tool window into one uber-too window, and put that on monitor two
<AlanBell> it does mean that Unity's alt-tab switcher has lost the only application that it improved
<mungojerry> if i'm pasting something into a fresh new image, i just wanna save as jpeg, but i have to export it
<ali1234> like this http://ubuntuone.com/0MvThXD7sYwYbQG96NEAJd
<mungojerry> it's not the end of the world but i wanted to change it if poss
<ali1234> oh come on U1
<mungojerry> ali1234, tell us 3 things that you like :D
<ali1234> i like indicators
<ali1234> they are a significant improvement to the old tray stuff
<ali1234> especially for multiple monitors
<ali1234> i quite like notify-osd as well
<mungojerry> i meant in life in general
<mungojerry> but they can also be some of your top things in life too
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/229745 <- gimp setup
<mungojerry> i see. but the great thing is you have choice of single or not
<mungojerry> not sure if the choice will be there forever...
<AlanBell> ali1234: that makes sense, I like the one monster window of tools
<ali1234> it stops them from getting spread across multiple desktops
<mungojerry> i didn't get into il-2 sturmovik as i'd hoped
<ali1234> it doesn't work properly for me
<ali1234> just crashes out all the time
<mungojerry> oh, no probs in that area
<ali1234> seems like a fun game though
<mungojerry> jus the plane crashes instead
<ali1234> yeah that too
<mungojerry> i plugged my ps2 controller via a usb thingy
<mungojerry> need to find my tomb raider disks and play that via the emulator sometime
<dutchie> i have tomb raider for pc *and* ps1 \o/
<dutchie> and a ps1, but that's beside the point
<davmor2> mungojerry: steel storm is awesome via a PS3 controller
<mungojerry> foolishly i got rid of old stuff thinking i'd nver want to play it again
<ali1234> tomb raider was a pretty good game back in the day :)
<mungojerry> and TR II
<ali1234> not sure if i played 2 or 3
<ali1234> probably 2
<davmor2> ali1234: shadowman was better gfx for a game the same age
<mungojerry> 2 had venice at the beggining
<ali1234> which was the one where you are running around in a diving suit with a harpoon gun?
<mungojerry> TR 1 & 2 are some of the few games i ever completed since coming of age
<dutchie> i have TR 1 to 4 on pc :D
<dutchie> i don't think i have actually cleared a single level on them though
<mungojerry> :O
<mungojerry> i remember the graphics on TR1 were awesome at the time
<mungojerry> when the camera pulled out for a wide shot of a cool scene
<ali1234> tomb raider was good, but ocarina of time was the best 3d platform puzzle game
<dutchie> reading from the back of the box: "Over 5,000 frames of animation on the main character, Lara, alone"
<mungojerry> reminds me i haven't completed the most recent zelda
<mungojerry> stopped playing at one boring bit
<dutchie> the system requirements are great
<ali1234> i gave up on twilight princess for same reason
<mungojerry> yeah the stupid wolf bit was boring
<mungojerry> the newer one is better though
<mungojerry> less wolfy stuff and running aimlessly
<ali1234> yeah. and also they massively increased the "hints" from the fairy/whatever that thing was supposed to be
<mungojerry> i just wanna play and enjoy
<ali1234> and the quicktime events
<mungojerry> not waste 3 hrs running around looking for something i've missed
<ali1234> yeah the wolf bits were just "go collect 30 rat tails"
<ali1234> boring grind to make the game longer and no puzzles
<ali1234> it's all about the puzzles!
<mungojerry> i wonder why i stopped playing the precursor to skyrim
<mungojerry> what is it called?
<ali1234> oblivion
<mungojerry> yeah
<ali1234> i played that for a couple of hours
<mungojerry> quite fun, but onl;y played it while waiting for zelda
<ali1234> the thing is though it's all random
<ali1234> and when it's all random... it's all different. but at the same time, it's all exactly the same
<ali1234> there's no cleverly thought out puzzles
<ali1234> just the same rooms in a different order
<czajkowski> BigRedS: oi see over there -->
<ali1234> and combined with the way the level scaling works... just got boring after a bit
<ali1234> same grind with bigger numbers
<mungojerry> i got a bit confused at the oblivion fgate bit
<mungojerry> then bored
<danno_> can anyone tell me why programs that are running are no longer appearing in the taskbar
<mungojerry> i don't like playing in a room on my own either
<ali1234> i think i played up to where you go into that guy's mansion with the burning skeleton dudes
<mungojerry> danno_, which programs?
<ali1234> danno_: are you still using lubuntu?
<danno_> yeah i am
<ali1234> that kind of makes a big difference
<ali1234> you'll need to find some other lubuntu users. i gather they are quite rare...
<mungojerry> i was on lubuntu till last 2months ago
<ali1234> if the taskbar thing crashes and restarts and "loses" all the apps, that's a bug
<mungojerry> my wife just called me fatty by mistake...she said it was swype's fault
<ali1234> that's one way it could have happened
<SuperEngineer> mungojerry: worried about about your "i don't like playing in a room on my own either" comment.. is there something you need to confess?
<ali1234> danno_: screenshots might help us diagnose it
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: that is the wrong comment just below mine ;)
<mungojerry> SuperEngineer, i meant the desktop pc with the graphics card is in a study....prefer to spend leisure time in my wifes company
<mungojerry> lol
<mungojerry> right, off home, nice food on the table i hope
<SuperEngineer> mungojerry: enjoy
<danno_> ill sort one out, 2 minutes
<Azelphur> popey: that ink set didn't come with a black bottle :(
<Azelphur> was red yellow blue and "cleaning fluid" lol
<popey> mine did
<popey> must have been a different set
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> indeed
<popey> "oops"
<Azelphur> I refilled the color cartridge but it won't print color at all, not sure if all the cartridges have to be done
<Azelphur> I printed solid RGB bars and got nothing
<ali1234> CMYK
<ali1234> K= black
<ali1234> i dunno why they call it K. probably to distinguish it from blue?
<mgdm> I believe so
<mgdm> I think they use a Latin word for it
<Azelphur> ali1234: does that translate to yes I need black to get it to do anything :P
<mgdm> actually, no - K is for 'key' -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYMK
<hamitron> mgdm, beat me to it, to look all clever
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> Azelphur: no it means printing RGB bars to test ink levels is a fail :)
<ali1234> since none of those are actual ink colours
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: however, cymk might not be enough either
<Azelphur> ali1234: I don't even know if it's an ink issue really, it just started printing blank pages one day
<ali1234> maybe not but it will be a LOT closer
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I've seen printers with _2_ sets of cymk + extra black
<Azelphur> feel free to suggest useful things :P
<colin_> hey
<ali1234> well for all colours to run out simultaneously is very suspicious
<hamitron> buy a new printer?
<popey> ho
<Azelphur> ali1234: indeed
<MartijnVdS> Get a laser printer :) Toner cartridges last forver.
<ali1234> yeah laser printers are the bomb
<hamitron> ohhhh, reminds me, need a new toner
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I've had this for like 2 years, and I got it second hand
<colin_> so, I need to upgrade to 12 because I'm concerned about security patches just stopping.
<colin_> the machine is a server, on the internet
<popey> colin_, what version you currently on?
<colin_> but also a workstation
<colin_> 10.04
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Inkjets aren't worth it if you print (a) a lot or (b) once a year
<popey> they wont stop for a while colin_
<ali1234> but you don't just need to refill toner in a laser
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: in case (a), ink will bankrupt you
<colin_> so first, (given it's technically a desktop install) when will the patches stop coming?
<ali1234> you have to maintain the photo roller thingy too
<colin_> ok, well anyway
<popey> colin_, April 2013 on desktop, April 2015 on server
<colin_> in terms of update
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: in (b) the ink will dry out, so you'll go bankrupt buying ink ANYWAY
<ali1234> yep ^ it's true
<Azelphur> lol
<colin_> the way my system works is this: there are siz disks in software raid 10
<colin_> six
<Azelphur> so what's a cheap laser printer/scanner for someone who prints once a year?
<colin_> each has a raid 5 partition at the front that has a boot partition
<colin_> it works very well
<popey> nice
<ali1234> Azelphur: don't go combo
<hamitron> a friends printer
<hamitron> ;)
<colin_> but, hwta the hell is likely to happen to me if i press "upgrade"
<ali1234> my scanner from 15 years ago still works fine
<popey> colin_, should "just work" :D
<Azelphur> this is starting to sound expensive already
<colin_> well
<colin_> ok
<popey> colin_, if you go from 10.04 to 12.04, that's supported
<ali1234> scanners are cheeeeeaaaaaap
<Azelphur> come to #ubuntu asking for help with printer -> buy new printer
<Azelphur> xD
<colin_> even with my odd raid set up?
<hamitron> I'd personally get a really cheap epson
<Azelphur> and buy new scanner too
<popey> yes
<Azelphur> lol
<hamitron> inkjet
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: something like the CP1525n ? (I have its older cousin, the CP1515n)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Ethernet, postscript, colour laser
<MartijnVdS> â¬200 in .nl
<colin_> popz?
<davmor2> colin_: backup first mind
<colin_> obviously thanks for that
<colin_> :-P
<ali1234> 10.04 to 12.04 has that funky font bug though :)
<popey> np
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: there's no way that will ever save me money
<Azelphur> I paid Â£15 for my current printer
<ali1234> doesn't seem to hurt anything though
<popey> true
<davmor2> colin_: It's always worth reiterating and not assuming
<popey> colin_, at the very end of the upgrade you might get a dialog box full of squares
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it'll work for 20 years
<popey> colin_, both ali1234 and I saw it, i moved the dialog to the side and it all carried on fine
<colin_> yeah thanks dav, popey what are consequences of squares?
<ali1234> i pressed the button that was obviously "OK"
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: assuming it works for 20 years, I could buy a whole new printer of the current printer I have once a year, and come off about the same price wise.
<ali1234> the firefox i had open in the background also did the same thing on all webpages and menus and stuff so i just closed it
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: but without the jamming, crapping out, and ink cost
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: i.e. a lot less hassle :)
<Azelphur> I've never had it jam, I havn't refilled the ink in 2 years (and I got it used)
<ali1234> and buying a new printer every year
<colin_> ok, as dav said it's worth re-iteratnig: this , you think, will "just work" with my raid5 and raid10 partitions?
<Azelphur> I'd prefer to try and fix what I have rather than fork out 200 euros for a new printer
<ali1234> Azelphur: do a reset on the internal memory then
<Azelphur> ali1234: how do I do that? :D
<ali1234> printers have lots of internal counters like "user has printed 3000 pages"
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> so the carts are rated for X pages and theprinter will just give up after that, even if they are not empty
<ali1234> reseting it depends on printer model
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> so, what model is it?
<Azelphur> HP Deskjet F4180
<ali1234> basically google "<model> reset ink counter"
<ali1234> plenty of hits on google for that model
<ali1234> you might need to futz with windows software though
<Azelphur> ali1234: not so much, most of them are for the wrong printer or say "do not work on F4180" XD
<ali1234> yeah well you have to account for people who just fail to follow the instructions and then post "does not work"
<popey> colin_, yeah, should be fine,
<colin_> well...ok will I still get updates for 10.04 for another years or so? Obviously I'd rather not mess with a perfectly good, stable system
<popey> yeah
<Azelphur> think I found one
<colin_> ok nice cya
<Azelphur> involves putting tape over the contacts :P
<ali1234> haha, yeah, that's one way
<popey> install fedora 17 in a virtual machine its so painfully slow
<ali1234> if it's reading from a chip on the cartridge, those can often be rewritten with some little arduino code
<ali1234> usually they are TWI/I2C/SPI or something
<ali1234> ie they are just a 16 byte eeprom
<ali1234> there's an alternative method in the comments on the tape page
<Azelphur> I'm looking at a youtube video
<ali1234> hold on + cancel and then plug in power
 * Azelphur tries
<ali1234> hold until it stops blinking
<davmor2> colin_: IIRC I think the squares is because it is still running an app that is pointing at an older version of the fonts/python/gtk and so at the end those nolonger exist
<colin_> davmor2 if that is the only issue I will be truly blessed. It's a sensibly maintained system, with complied sources, proprietary binaries all on a separate tree. maybe it'll work. mainly the MDraid was my concern
<Azelphur> I think we confused it now lol
<Azelphur> I did that, and now it seems to be powered on, but ignoring my print job
<Azelphur> ah, there it goes
<Azelphur> and nope, still blank page
<popey> colin_, the mdraid is probably the least of your worries
<ali1234> Azelphur: key combo might differ on different models
<Azelphur> it does seem to make it do something when I do that
<popey> Azelphur, does the head go back and forth like its printing?
<popey> or just spit out a blank page
<Azelphur> popey: yea
<colin_> popey , well then my position is likely good. Of course it won't work, but you never know. thnx
<ali1234> might be broken. do the carts still read empty?
<Azelphur> ali1234: no, they both stopped reading empty when I refilled color
<Azelphur> originally it marked them both as empty
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> just buy a new printer
<Azelphur> \o/ for 200 euros
<pinky-> from Amazon
<Azelphur> oh hey now it's saying it's out of ink again
<Azelphur> gonna try the contacts thing I guess
<Azelphur> no luck :(
<czajkowski> pinky-: via the dash :p
<pinky-> dish dash dosh
<popey> directhex, seen another game has been added to the bundle... wizorb
<popey> $ grep exe /usr/share/applications/wizorb.desktop
<popey> Exec=mono /opt/wizorb/Wizorb.exe
<popey> FWIW I just started it and it opened full screen on my external monitor, perfectly fine
<pinky-> czajkowski, meaning flash the cash from the dash
<ali1234> directhex: isn't that the game you said was "not as good as shutter" yesterday?
<directhex> yeah. it's a different take on breakout clonery
<ali1234> looks more traditional
<ali1234> and yeah, mono games seem to do fullscreen right on my system
<ali1234> so that's good
<ali1234> bastion is the only one that hasn't needed me to do weird stuff and "just worked"
<ali1234> so far
<ali1234> the only thing i don't like is it grabs the mouse pointer
<ali1234> but all SDL games do that too
<directhex> well they *are* sdl games really
<ali1234> yeah SDL mostly works correctly too, once i figured out that setting SDL_FULLSCREEN_DISPLAY globally in the environment was a great idea
<directhex> as per libtaoframework-sdl1.2-cil
<ali1234> SDL_FULLSCREEN_DISPLAY=1 should really be the default
<ali1234> so how come all these developers that constantly complained about how much SDL sucks and how hard to use it was...
<ali1234> how come they all love it now it's called monogame?
<directhex> monogame abstracts at a higher level. it's not sdl on windows
<ali1234> fair enough
<directhex> or xbox. and i assume not on ios but iu'd have to read the code
<ali1234> sdl was always a bad clone of direct x anyway, to be fair
<ali1234> and by direct x i mean direct draw
<ali1234> they probably don't have direct draw any more but they must have replaced it with something
<directhex> "DirectDraw has been deprecated since version 7 but is still included with DirectX, although updates are no longer made. Developers have been instructed to use textured quads in Direct3D for 2D graphics."
<ali1234> heh
<directhex> makes sense tbh
<ali1234> yeah that's what most people have been doing with SDL for the past 6-7 years
<ali1234> just use it to open the window and the use opengl
<ali1234> what's this i hear about nvidia getting improved xrandr support?
<hamitron> could you dev for wp7 and port it using monogame?
<ali1234> yeah, in theory
<ali1234> that's kind of the point
<hamitron> I may have to look into it
<ali1234> there's plenty of other cross platform options
<ali1234> it really depends what type of game you wanna make tbh
<hamitron> I never minded SDL tbh
<ali1234> SDL is great if you want to make a 2D shmup
<directhex> hamitron: that's the main use case, i think. one of the main companies doing monogame development is a wp7 game company
<ali1234> it's far from the best choice if you want to make a FPS though (assuming you don't want to write the whole 3d engine from scratch)
<hamitron> ali1234, if I was looking to target wp7 it may be a good choice though
<ali1234> monogame or SDL?
<hamitron> monogame
<ali1234> oh windows phone
<ali1234> yeah...
<ali1234> not so much choice there
<hamitron> tbh, not got any plans.... if I was to just do something for linux, I'd use SDL
<directhex> wp7 forces your hand really
<ali1234> wp7 is not something i'd care about developing software for
<ali1234> it occured to me the other day
<directhex> or skip it since it has no users
<ali1234> you were asking for humble bundle for wp7
<directhex> i'm not sure how many extra options wp8 will have, real-world
<ali1234> this can never happen as wp7 does not allow side loading
<hamitron> did a new version of SDL ever come out with support for game controllers?
<ali1234> humble bundle on android... you have to side load
<ali1234> by "side load" i mean "not use the app store"
<directhex> hamitron: sdl 2.0!
<hamitron> it is out?
<ali1234> sdl 2.0 isn't out yet
<hamitron> when I last read up on it, 1.2 was stable, and 1.3 added it but was not complete
<ali1234> 1.3 is now called 2.0
<ali1234> nothing else changed
<hamitron> ok
<hamitron> ali1234, what does your racing game use?
<ali1234> ogre3d and OIS
<directhex> torque is Free now
<ali1234> but really all it needs is a scene graph and vector math library
<directhex> dunno if it has a linux port yet
<ali1234> everything else is written from scratch
<hamitron> any plans to support force feedback devices?
<ali1234> me?
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> sure, why not
<ali1234> OIS claims to suppor them but it doesn't work with my xbox controler
<ali1234> OIS is kind of crappy though
<ali1234> but, it's still better than anything else on linux
<hamitron> ff wheels were working in SDL 1.3
<hamitron> iirc
<ali1234> next version is supposed to be able to get the text names of the axes of the joystick
<ali1234> i really need that for config. but next version has been in the works for years...
<ali1234> and besides, sound is much higher on my todo list than force feedback
<hamitron> oh yeh, ofc
<ali1234> and also "game menus"
<hamitron> command line arguments will do
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> loading up te game and being dumped on to an endless race is not really much of a game
<ali1234> also i need to totally rewrite the physics, especially the flight physics which are totally awful
<hamitron> is it a server and client type model?
<ali1234> did i mention there is a demo you can try?
<ali1234> heck no
<ali1234> you fly at 2000 km/s
<hamitron> km/h?
<ali1234> oops yeah
<AlanBell> did someone break alt-prtscr again?
<hamitron> I needed a new pair of pants at the thought
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> any point being, 20ms ping = error of... quite a large distance
<AlanBell> in quantal
<ali1234> it's like... 10m
<hamitron> but you have to have multiplayer!
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> sure... multiplayer split screen
<hamitron> no no :( 40 players online ;)
<hamitron> I can see the issue though
<ali1234> i will make network play
<ali1234> it will be lan only though
<ali1234> if you can connect two lans with a tunnel and get ping <5ms, then you can play that way too
<hamitron> heh
<ali1234> well, you can try to play with higher ping, but you won't enjoy it
<hamitron> "no problem" ;/
<ali1234> demo: http://ubuntuone.com/5uweM7aLkMLiKSSvMnP4nH
<ali1234> replace exe with this update: http://ubuntuone.com/0zDlBMUOEfQ22n0r5Ng5gQ
<hamitron> what are requirements?
<ali1234> you need nvidia or ati graphics proprietary driver
<hamitron> OS?
<ali1234> at least geforce 6
<ali1234> ubuntu 12.04
<ali1234> you need to install libogre and libois
<hamitron> I'm lacking the OS too
<ali1234> you need a joystick with 6 axis
<hamitron> 6!
<ali1234> ie game pad with (analog) shoulder triggers
<ali1234> it only uses 4 axis
<ali1234> 0, 1, 2, and 5
<ali1234> because it is hardcoded for xbox and that's how it is layed out
<ali1234> this is another thing i need to fix: joystick config. i think i already mentioned why i haven't yet
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> need keyboard support too
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> cannot be played with keyboard, sorry
<ali1234> download mupen-64 and f-zero x and try to play it with keyboard
<ali1234> you won;t beat the second GP
<hamitron> I got a t.16000m joystick anyway
<hamitron> although, maybe best to borrow sisters xbox 360 controller
<ali1234> 360 controller should work
<ali1234> button mapping will be a bit different
<ali1234> but axes will be correct
<Azelphur> hmm, so there's this fancy device I see called a LagBuster, which is basically QoS but it auto detects your bandwidth on the fly, so you won't lag due to normal fluctuations in bandwidth availability most ISPs have, Anyone know how to make DD-WRT do this? XD
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> same way you do it on any linux box :P
<Azelphur> hi captain vague
<Azelphur> :p
<ali1234> actually this netgear router has this feature
<ali1234> but it has a problem
<ali1234> it detects bandwidth and then limits upstream to that amount
<ali1234> but upstream bandwidth is not actually achieveable in practice
<ali1234> so it's completely useless and doesn't work at all
<Azelphur> yea, and then never checks again until you reboot it
<ali1234> and you can't override the autodetect
<ali1234> no, it checks constantly
<Azelphur> o.O
<ali1234> but always sets it slightly too high, so it has no effect
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> so hows it actually done?
<Azelphur> I mean, I wouldn't think you could just speedtest.net all the time
<ali1234> on the netgear it is done with proprietary kernel modules, so i can't even fix it
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> oh, it just looks at the training speed of the DSL modem
<Azelphur> ah I see
<hamitron> sounds stupid putting an extra bottleneck there to me
<ali1234> it works because it eliminates buffer bloat
<ali1234> so it reduces lag at the cost of a tiny amount of bandwidt
<Azelphur> so the training speed on a modem is reasonably accurate? I wonder how I could read that xD
<ali1234> it's accurate sure
<ali1234> but the problem is it's impossible to actually get that speed
<Azelphur> o.O
<ali1234> like you won't even get 100MB per second on a 100MB ethernet
<ali1234> you'll get 99.9
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> yea, I'm not getting anywhere near what my router is reporting
<Azelphur> my router says 14.8/0.7 and I'm actually getting 11.12/0.39
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it shouldn't change much
<ali1234> you are fine setting a fixed value
<Azelphur> it does, mine can go all the way down to 2 at congested periods
<ali1234> having it auto detect is not worth the effort
<ali1234> then your ISp sucks
<Azelphur> auto detect is the reason I'm not using QoS at all
<Azelphur> because without auto detect on a normal home connection, it's useless due to contention
<Azelphur> the bandwidth changes too much
<ali1234> you should only be using it on your uplink
<hamitron> mine is consistent.... just not good any of the time ;)
<ali1234> uplink is never cngested
<Azelphur> heck, I just did 2 rests in a row and got 10.57 on one and 11.15 on the next, that's a big enough difference
<Azelphur> and 0.36 up then 0.4 up
<ali1234> if latency is important to you set the limit to 0.3
<Azelphur> both latency and download/upload speed are important  :)
<Azelphur> it's gotta be possible to do it, because this lagbuster device is doing it
<ali1234> no, it's just claiming to do it
<ali1234> the glass is probably empty
<Azelphur> true xD
<Azelphur> they do state very clearly that it has "real time bandwidth monitoring"
<hamitron> 1.4
<hamitron> :/
<popey> pip pip
 * hamitron runs
<ali1234> so yeah. variance in your uplink speed is probably caused by the very buffers you are trying to avoid
<ali1234> so the rate limit needs to be carefully tuned. but once you;'ve done that you never need to touch it again
<ali1234> this lagbuster thing is snake oil
 * Azelphur shrugs
<ali1234> fwiw netgear claims this router is dual core. it might be dual core hardware but the kernel does not have SMP support
<hamitron> heh
<hamitron> I like my wrt54gl
<hamitron> damn it ali1234
<hamitron> I'm tempted to install 12.04 specially to try your game
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> why u not use 12.04 already?
<hamitron> running windows 7 on my x86 rig
<hamitron> then linux on my r-pi
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> seriously just get f-zero x if you haven't already played it. it's actually a proper game
<ali1234> and it's much better than my efforts at this poit
<hamitron> well, was wanting to look at your efforts more than get a game really
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I got F1 2012 for a real game
<ali1234> f zero x is better
<hamitron> :-o
<ali1234> the only better racing game is f-zero gx but you need like a i7 5GHz to emulate that
<ali1234> if you have not played this game... you have not played what is certainly one of the best racing games ever made
<ali1234> maybe you won;t like it as much as F1 whatever, but still
<hamitron> I got f-zero on my snes
<ali1234> yeah... n64 version is miles better
<ali1234> and gamecube version is miles better as well
<hamitron> kk, shame it isn't on xbox 360
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> it's on wii virtual console
<hamitron> I mean a proper console
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> or ps3, as I am tempted to get one just for DUST 514
<ali1234> LOL
<ali1234> "sea foam"
<MartijnVdS> foam party oop norf!
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> seriously though what is that stuff
<AlanBell> plancton poo
<MartijnVdS> yum!
<ali1234> i love this quote
<ali1234> "The foam is a natural product and we wouldn't anticipate any health concerns."
<MartijnVdS> Because natural products are all good for you!
<AlanBell> because nothing natural can be harmful
<ali1234> because everything natural is completely safe right?
<AlanBell> lol
<ali1234> like cobras
<MartijnVdS> and Australian spiders
<AlanBell> "The foam is a natural product and we wouldn't anticipate any health concerns that we can be sued for."
<davmor2> and daffodils
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: daffodils are bad now?
<ali1234> i know a guy who ate daffodils
<ali1234> the doctors say he'll be out in the spring
<MartijnVdS> ...
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Yeap they are toxic particularly the bulbs
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I don't eat flowers usually though
<Azelphur> popey: refilled the black ink as well now, but still no luck :(
<ali1234> what did you refill it with??
<Azelphur> my dad had a bottle for his printer
<Azelphur> looks exactly the same as my current bottles, I'd imagine it's from the same manufacturer
<ali1234> the cartridges don't usually have sensors in them so it won't know you've refilled it
<ali1234> also they could be dried up
<ali1234> and therefore blocked
<ali1234> the print head that is
<Azelphur> that's possible
<Azelphur> any idea how to fix that
<MartijnVdS> that's hard
<MartijnVdS> easiest is to buy new carts
<ali1234> yeah, do the cleaning cycle. if that doesn't work, figure out what type of solvent to use, and apply a very small amount to the print head
<ali1234> though again, going from working fine to nothing at all over night is highly unusual
<Azelphur> ali1234: my ink set came with liquide nettoyant cleaning fluid
<ali1234> yeah use that then
<Azelphur> it did go a bet faint before it died
<MartijnVdS> "liquide nettoyant" is just French for "cleaning fluid"
<Azelphur> the blacks were light greyish, as if it was running out of ink
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> it's probably acetone
<Azelphur> I have a bottle of acetone for getting thermal paste off too
<ali1234> acetone or ethanol or pentanol
<Azelphur> to run a cleaning cycle it looks like I need Windows
<ali1234> virtualbox
<ali1234> you can usually do it with a key combo as well though
<MartijnVdS> most printers can do that from the front panel as well
 * Azelphur grabs the manual
 * MartijnVdS recommends the googles
<Azelphur> couldn't find anything on google
<Azelphur> it's a really old printer
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: type?
<Azelphur> HP Deskjet F4180
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: hp-clean :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: on your Ubuntu machine
<MartijnVdS> hp-clean -u
<MartijnVdS> for the GUI
<Azelphur> oO
<MartijnVdS> oh that's default
<Azelphur> I got a gui anyway, yea it's default
<Azelphur> it's cleaning \o/
<MartijnVdS> yay hplip :)
 * Azelphur crosses fingers
<ali1234> cleaning cycle just dumps a huge amount of ink through the head into a sponge inside the printer
<ali1234> it usually fills most of the inside of the printer
<ali1234> if you ever open up a inkjet you will find this is the messiest thing ever
<Azelphur> cleaning level 1, blank page lol
<MartijnVdS> especially if the inkjet is several years old
<ali1234> must worse than waste toner cartridge...
<ali1234> at least that stuff is dry
<Azelphur> level 2, blank page
<Azelphur> I put 5ml of ink in each cartridge btw
<Azelphur> just in case that isn't enough
<ali1234> i dunno
<Azelphur> this video I watched said 5
<czajkowski> Laney: you alive
<Azelphur> yay, level 3 blank page
<ali1234> smetimes the carts have like a weird spiral inside
<ali1234> so you have to fill them, and then roll them around to get the ink through it
<Laney> czajkowski: HOWDY!
<czajkowski> Laney: you on 12.10
<oimon> guys, what's the "ubuntu" way to build a package from something i've apt-get sourced?
<oimon> (and patched)
<Laney> I'm watching the bake off, so you better be resplendent :P
<Laney> yes
<ali1234> Azelphur: http://www.techtangerine.com/wp-content/gallery/cartridges/t088320-magenta-cartridge.jpg
<ali1234> like that
<czajkowski> Laney: if you close your lid and then re open it
<czajkowski> what happens
<Laney> works fine
<ali1234> as you can imagine, air pockets get stuck inside
<Laney> I do it all the time
<oimon> Laney: missis is watching it, i must not speak during 8-9 on tuesdays
<Azelphur> ali1234: lol fun
<czajkowski> Laney: bugger
<Laney> what do you get?
<Azelphur> think I'll try cleaning, so I just clean the bottom of the cartridge where the silver part is
<Azelphur> with a cloth and the cleaning fluid?
<ali1234> no cloths
<czajkowski> Laney: it wont wont give me the login screen
<oimon> since you're all chatty tonight, anyone fancy helping with my question?
<Azelphur> o.O
<czajkowski> just black screen
<czajkowski> and I can see the mouse
<Azelphur> ali1234: what then?
<ali1234> put a tiny drop onto the print head and just let it sit
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> do you have intel graphics?
<Azelphur> ali1234: ah ok
<ali1234> dont rub it with a cloth
<czajkowski> Laney: bah never remember the command
<ali1234> you'll get fibres stuck in it
<czajkowski> lsw ?
<ali1234> give the cartidges a shake too
<ali1234> might clear out air pockets
<Laney> lshw?
<Laney> czajkowski: anyway you might want to try the #ubuntu-x guys
<Laney> there was a similar sounding driver bug if you have intel
<Azelphur> got a perfect little layer of acetone on top of the silver contact area, will leave it sitting for a bit
<czajkowski> yes inten
<czajkowski> cheers
<Laney> let me see if I can find the bug I saw
<Laney> czajkowski: heh, right at the top of the list. bug #966744
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 966744 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Quantal) "[i965] Resume from suspend leaves me with black screen or a screen of the desktop before it suspended. Compiz hung in intel_update_renderbuffers() from intel_prepare_render() from brw_draw_prims()" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966744
<Laney> it's one of those monster bugs
<oimon> bug 986676
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 986676 in libgphoto2 (Ubuntu) "Shotwell does not show thumbnails for images on "Mass Storage Camera"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986676
<oimon> :( there's a patch for canon EOS cameras (one of mostpopular) but patch isn't getting into libgphoto :(
<hamitron> does unity work well with multi-monitors?
<oimon> yes hamitron
<hamitron> kk, just checking
<oimon> better than most DEs i find
<hamitron> I just recall someone in here saying about issues or something
<ali1234> it depends how you want it to work
<ali1234> it works about as well as it works with a single monitor :/
<ali1234> all of the problems are design problems basically. technically it works fine, at least on nvidia
<bootinfdsds> Ubuntu Uk podacst is on right now ::: http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org:8000/uupc.mp3
<hamitron> if I was to use ubuntu with unity, on 1 monitor but using synergy.... is there any particular side I'd be best having it on?
<hamitron> I got 3 monitors, so maybe 3 comps, each with a different OS is best
<hamitron> suspect ubuntu would be best on the left screen
<hamitron> ali1234, does unity rely on any edge of the screen?
<hamitron> I can't remember how it even works
<bootinfdsds> re you doing the podcast at the moment or is that someone else ??
<bootinfdsds> AlanBell, Are you doing the podcast at the moment or is that someone else ??
<AlanBell> that would be popey
<bootinfdsds> Oh  Ok cool
<christel>  g22
<christel> er
<MartijnVdS> christel: time for a new keyboard? :)
<ali1234> hamitron: yes, sort of
<ali1234> hamitron: depends how you configure it though
<ali1234> it does have some option now
<bootinfdsds> Anyone listening to the podcast ??
<ali1234> there's a podcast?
<bootinfdsds> searching ...
<bootinfdsds> Enjoy ::: http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org:8000/uupc.mp3
<christel> martijn silly touchscreen :)
<MartijnVdS> christel: suure :)
<christel> (on phone) hehe
<MartijnVdS> christel: â« might as well face it you're addicted to irc
<christel> haha I just can't stay away from you :(
<bootinfdsds> nice song icon / character !
<MartijnVdS> christel: awww :)
<MartijnVdS> christel: you send people candy once.. ;)
<christel> hehehe
<christel> :p
<bigcalm> Ello
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
<christel> bc!
<bigcalm> christeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel
<bootinfdsds> AlanBell, They are definately talking about you ..
 * bootinfdsds listens to Alan's common sense.
<MartijnVdS> they're always talking about AlanBell
<bootinfdsds> I think it's recorded thou. :(
 * AlanBell is *not* the wing commander
 * bootinfdsds slides AlanBell a cool Redbull.
<bigcalm> What have I been missing out on by doing work instead of IRC today?
<hamitron> slacker
<hamitron> ;)
<bigcalm> I know
<bigcalm> Feel bad about it
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well everyone.
<bigcalm> Night
<brobostigon> nos da bigcalm o/
<christel> nos da cariad ;)
 * popey pokes christel with ROTINHYLAS in ##cooking
<popey> nvm
<Azelphur> popey: he visited ##hardware too, mass nick flood I guess?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> so how about an irc server where you have to pay a 1 BTC deposit to register?
<ali1234> you can get it back if you unregister, like shopping trolleys
<ali1234> would make mass nick spamming prohibitively expensive, but anyone can get bitcoins anon
<hamitron> 1 btc is a lot
<ali1234> ok, amount is open for discussion
<hamitron> or maybe make you register on a website?
<ali1234> that doesn't work
<ali1234> we have that already
<hamitron> even if it has checks in place?
<ali1234> what kind of checks?
<hamitron> "enter this code: blah bleh"
<hamitron> kinda thing
<ali1234> no, that's trivially defeated
<hamitron> hmmm, ok
<ali1234> again, we already have that
<hamitron> verify by txt msg?
<ali1234> that's not anonymous enough
<ali1234> whatever is $1 in btc is probably enough
<hamitron> 0.1 then
<ali1234> how much does it cost to ban someone in terms of man hours? that's how much the deposit should be
<ali1234> even if someone hacks your account - it's only a dollar. it's a lesson for you :)
<ali1234> having it refundable may be a prblem if the operators get robbed
<ali1234> so maybe it should just be a flat fee to make an account
<ali1234> or reactivate after banning
<hamitron> Code::Blocks or Orwell Dev-C++
<dutchie> ali1234: the moment irc goes from "free" to "not free" is the moment a large number of users quit
<ali1234> le them
<dutchie> whether those users are worth keeping or not is the main point of debate :)
<ali1234> plenty of free irc servers
<Azelphur> ali1234: what would paying for a nickserv account actually accomplish?
<ali1234> well it would be the only way to speak in any channels on the serve
<ali1234> if you get banned, you lose your deposit
<ali1234> the revenue from doing this can pay someone to sit and ban people full time
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> it's mainly trying to stop things like the guy spamming #bitcoin recently
<ali1234> without requiring registration of real world identity
<ali1234> even if someone has a botnet and can get unlimited bitcoins... if they try to spam, they just pay you to hire 100 guys to ban the bots all day
<ali1234> this is different to the usual schemes which just require proof of work, because those can be defeated with a botnet, and the person getting attacked gets nothing
<ali1234> anyway it's just an idea
<ali1234> it has problems, like if the server op abuses the system
<ali1234> but... free market, you know?
<ali1234> *hand wave*
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-26
<gebbione> hi all, for some reason my drop down and right click menus are not showing in my ubuntu
<gebbione> anyone has an idea why this might happen? for instance when i right click nothing happens/shows up and when i click on an application dropdown (lets say conf options) that drop down options dont show up
<gebbione> :/
<Azelphur> I HAVE MADE MY PRINTER WORK.
<Azelphur> \o/
<popey> what you do?
<Azelphur> popey: I went nuts and put 30ml of ink in the 5ml cartridge
<Azelphur> xD
<popey> hah
<popey> so it was out of ink?
<Azelphur> I used an entire bottle of that stuff, haha
<popey> schoolboy error
<Azelphur> apparently it was very out of ink
<popey> surely you ended up wearing it all?
<Azelphur> nope
<Azelphur> think I'm gonna buy one of these though http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250ml-Universal-Compatible-Dye-Black-Bulk-Ink-CISS-Inkjet-Refilling-bottle-/220965052722?pt=UK_Computing_Ink_Refills_Kits&hash=item33728b2132#ht_991wt_1165
<Azelphur> I've gotta replace my dads 30ml bottle I nicked, and I wouldn't mind some refills for myself
<Azelphur> I literally emptied the entire bottle and just when it was on the last dregs the cartridge overflowed, so that's when I stopped lol
<popey> blimey
<popey> big cartridge
<popey> maybe I didnt put enough in mine
<Azelphur> indeed, it's only supposed to do 5ml
<popey> cool story bro
<popey> nn
<Azelphur> nn :D
<ali1234> i suspect air pockets
<Azelphur> probably
<Azelphur> it puts big splodges on the paper now sometimes
<Azelphur> but I imagine that'll go away
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> when you;ve used about 25ml of ink, probably
<Azelphur> 30, yea xD
<Azelphur> it's a 30ml bottle and I drained it lol
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-19543541
<ali1234> if that guys does it i will be amazed
<Azelphur> indeed o.O
<diplo> Morning all
<christel> morning diplo, everyone :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<mattt> morning brobostigon
<mattt> morning diplo, chistel
<brobostigon> morning mattt
<christel> hiya mattt
<brobostigon> morning christel
<christel> brobostigon \o
<brobostigon> christel o/
<diplo> Got an odd issue, my terminal keeps disconnecting from my irssi host with broken pipe after about a minute or two
<diplo> Works fine with putty under windows and my box at home
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<christel> JamesTait: \o/
 * JamesTait hugs christel
<christel> hugs \o/
<bittin^work> o/
<christel> tjenare bittin^work :)
<bittin^work> tjena christel
<bittin^work> http://albaux.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-12-10-New-default-Wallpaper-329140735 :D
<christel> lol
<czajkowski> diplo: that only ever hapens me after about an hour of not even going near my machine
<diplo> :/
<diplo> Mines within a few mins, only started happening a few days ago
<diplo> Not sure how to find out whats happening
<Laney> is this a new thing?
<diplo> Yep
<Laney> try putting a ServerAliveInterval in .ssh/config
<diplo> I ssh to my vps and run byobu, everyday since i installed 12.04
<diplo> kk, think it's there already
<diplo> 2secs
<diplo> Hmm, maybe didn't readd it after reinstall
<diplo> Will try that now
<diplo> OK, connected via precise again
<diplo> Let's x fingers :P
<diplo> Bope
<diplo> Nope*
<diplo> :/
<diplo> I guess I could log via config to a file and see what happens
<Laney> errrrrrrr
<Laney> anyone know what slots VM do for engineer appointments?
<Laney> I have one this afternoon but no clue what time he's supposed to be coming
<diplo> No idea sorry, my company would never foot the bill for that :D
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> hey diplo
<diplo> Had a play with django last night, bit of a pita but does look good
<Laney> aha, he's coming now
<Laney> bonus
<darren-meeting> maxp, ping
<davmor2> diplo: the only issue I had running the tutorial from the site was that the admin section refused to display in w3m
<bigcalm> Greetings
<davmor2> hey bigcalm 'Ow am yam dude
<bigcalm> davmor2: Morning. Wondering if I'll ever get enough sleep at night not to be knackered by 11:30. How's you?
<bigcalm> Doh, really should reboot this server
<diplo> Can you load in a normal browser davmor2 ?
<davmor2> bigcalm: pretty much the same, but I've decided it's Wednesday it's crap weather outside we all need a great day, make it so popey (and don't give me none of that I can't do that)
<diplo> If not that's url.py needs amending
<bigcalm> popey is a weather man?
<davmor2> diplo: I was in a closed lxc container so I can play with it to open the lxc container up, but just couldn't be bothered last night :)
<diplo> heh, I felt the same, this was 11-m +
<diplo> pm*
<bigcalm> Back in a bit (hopefully)
<davmor2> bigcalm: no not the weather, but I'm sure he can make everyones life full of joy joy
<christel> http://pastebin.com/sfiSihzX anyone local-ish fancy going to thaaat
<bittin^work> christel, when is it?
<bittin^work> found it iam blind
<bittin^work> sadly not when iam in the UK =(
<christel> :(
<bigcalm> christel: why the sad?
<elfy> might manage to get to one of them
<davmor2> christel: erm no :(
<christel> davmor2: FINE, you suck.
<elfy> new milton one is about 5 miles from me
<andrews> Hello all
<elfy> hello andrews
<bigcalm> Would somebody please stop drinking my coffee?
<andrews> Can I ask if there are any iMac users in here who might be able to help with a bluetooth keyboard problem I am having?  (not ubuntu I know though ive found people in here know their stuff generally!)
<davmor2> bigcalm: go take a look in the mirror, see that bloke looking back at you, I bet it's him
<bigcalm> Damn that man
<Laney> woohoo
<Laney> the man fixed my internets
<davmor2> Laney: woohoo how were you on the internets before
<Laney> well, it worked but was just crappy
<Laney> he attached a forward path attenuator (whatever that is), and it's rainbows and unicorns now
<bigcalm> Shiney
<daubers> ooooh... one in Newbury
<mattt> what's in newbury
<daubers> that thing that christel was banding around
<christel> it looks like it could be quite fun :)
<christel> (they had me at "are you sci-curious?" tbf)
<mattt> oh yeah, heard about that from the readinggeek folks
<bittin^work> christel, hows norway?
<christel> no idea :o
<christel> (i moved away in 98)
<bittin^work> ah
<davmor2> christel: only a couple of weeks ago then
<bittin^work> why did i think you was from norway then o:?
<mungojerry> guy on the train today was lamenting the crap quality control on his Â£529 iphone 5
<mungojerry> the casing was all dented and flaky
<mungojerry> i lol'd quietly
<davmor2> mungojerry: I wouldn't of I'd of got my SGS3 out and gone look at the shiny :D
<popey> mungojerry, thats _one_ reason I'm not upgrading
<popey> I like the glass front and back
<popey> 4s is rock solid
<marxjohnson> I like my unibody aluminium HTC Legend, hard as nails
<marxjohnson> just a pain it's stuck on Android 2.x
<popey> marxjohnson, tried any games yet?
<mungojerry> popey, my iphone 5 doesn't have that problem: http://ubuntuone.com/5AVzrvnmz9WoRWiWXxnmOS
<popey> haha
<popey> thats ace
<popey> lunchtime!
<popey> time to eat and be entertained by Stephen Colbert and John Stewart
<popey> whilst simultaneously confirming bugs \o/
<mungojerry> popey, got a bug for you :D
<bittin^work> mungojerry, :D
<marxjohnson> popey: not yet, I'm at work, might give one a go over lunch
<marxjohnson> I did buy Nikki and the Robots
<mungojerry> popey, interesetd to know your thoughts on bug 986676 . it affects libgphoto2 and a very popular camera model. there is a patch which works, but i don't know why it hasn't been patched
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 986676 in libgphoto2 (Ubuntu) "Shotwell does not show thumbnails for images on "Mass Storage Camera"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986676
<christel> bittin^work: i am! i just haven't lived in norway for a long long time :P
<bittin^work> christel, ah i see
<popey> marxjohnson, wonder if you were the 500th purchaser, they're 503 now, was 499 this morning
<bittin^work> that looks cool
<popey> mungojerry, looks like an upstream bug?
<bittin^work> might buy that tommorow when i have money =)
<bittin^work> i love oldschool platformers <3
<bittin^work> and i even meet the guys who did the trailer music :D
<bittin^work> so gonna buy it for sure
<Laney> I totally failed to find any extra batteries on the first two levels
<Laney> other than the obvious ones
<popey> i do love that game
<bittin^work> iam still at work, will buy it when i get home :D
<popey> they have a (very quiet) irc channel here #nikki :)
<bittin^work> whats the minimum you can pay?
<bittin^work> 1 EUR?
<bittin^work> yepp 1 EUR for steam keys
<bittin^work> bought that game now, for my last money until tommorow :P
<bittin^work> for 2 EUR
<bittin^work> i was #504 :(
<bittin^work> not that that is a cool number
<bittin^work> :( my work PC was to shit for playing it so need to wait until i get home
<bittin^work> Intel GMA 460 ftl :<
<popey> really? plays fine on my crummy intel box even at 1080p
<bittin^work> but it works better on my GTX 560 at home
<popey> oh, 460
<popey> erk
<bittin^work> or whatever this box uses
<bittin^work> old HP Compaq 6910p
<bittin^work> laptop but maybe your suppose to work at work and not play platform games
<mungojerry> which game are we talking about?
<davmor2> mungojerry: Nikki and the Robots
<mungojerry> sound like an 80s band
<popey> the music is retro 8-bit chiptune style
<mungojerry> i'm in an open plan office but i'm imagining the music blip blop blip as i watch the trailer
<bittin^work> headphones is a nice thing
<pinky-> Black Mesa Source (HalfLife) is a good free game, but it's for winblows only. http://www.blackmesasource.com/download.html
<bittin^work> pinky-, yeah started to play that =)
<pinky-> yeah I grabbed it couple of weeks ago too
<marxjohnson> Source engine games work pretty well under Wine IME
<pinky-> good good
<marxjohnson> I'll have to give it a go
<pinky-> yesterday on the NewsGroups I found a new steam free version which is 2gb bigger insize, so grabbing now also
<pinky-> still downloading now
<popey> black mesa is free?
<popey> didnt know that
<pinky-> popey, yes
<popey> neat, will boot my windows box up and get it :)
<Mez> yep... free as long as you have something based on source engine (TF2 counts)
<pinky-> it's a good game too
<popey> i have the orange box
<bigcalm> popey: it's well worth the time and effort to boot into windows. Very enjoyable
<bigcalm> I just bought the Humble Bundle 6. This is while I have 2 domains that need renewing
<bigcalm> Priorities...
<mungojerry> is it HL1 graphics?
<bigcalm> mungojerry: no, hl2 graphics
<mungojerry> oh sweet
<bigcalm> mungojerry: this is the whole point
<bigcalm> Plus extra story
<Mez> I bought HB6 aaaagggeesss ago ... get with the program bigcalm
<bigcalm> New music, new voice actors
<bigcalm> Mez: call me lazy, I just don't have much time to play games
<mungojerry> when's it coming to linux?
<Mez> lazy: There's ALWAYS time to play games.
<bittin^work> whenever Steam and Source gets ported =)
<bittin^work> bought HIB6 aswell, got the extra games yesterday only 1 i did not have already lol
<bigcalm> I was surprised that Black Mesa isn't available via Steam. Considering it was in their Green Light programme
<bittin^work> bigcalm, they will accept some more green light stuff next month
<bittin^work> yea whould be nice to have it native on steam
<bigcalm> I had to download it from a very slow mirror over more than 1 day :(
<bittin^work> i took the torrent took me like 7-8h when it was released :D
<bigcalm> The torrent never worked for me
<Mez> http://www.steamcalculator.com/id/mezzle/uk <-- actually scared @ seeing that total :(
<mungojerry> will it eventually work on linux?
<Leckey> wow Mez
<Leckey> think of what you could of bought instead!
<diplo> Leckey: Look at directhex's
<Mez> Leckey: could have :P
<directhex> hm?
<diplo> http://www.steamcalculator.com/id/directhex/uk
<diplo> Wish I had the money to spend on games :(
<Leckey> christ
<Mez> Leckey: and most of them are from indie bundles etc. Or when they were on sale.
<directhex> steamcalculator lies
<diplo> hah
<Mez> Steam Caclculator is the *current* price.
<diplo> So you tell your wife :P
<directhex> it shows full-price titles, and for games only available in a bundle, it shows the bundle price as the game price
<diplo> http://www.steamcalculator.com/id/diplo
<bittin^work> http://www.steamcalculator.com/id/bittin1/uk
<diplo> Saints Row: The Third I own that ?
<diplo> :p
<bittin^work> diplo, maybe there becouse of the free weekend last weekend and your account has not synced yet
<bittin^work> *resynced
<directhex> e.g. it shows GTA1 as Â£20
<directhex> but GTA1 is free
<bittin^work> directhex, not on Steam but on Rockstars website it is
<directhex> or dungeon siege 1 for Â£23, it's only available in a bundle with DS3
<diplo> Will look when I get home :)
<bittin^work> here is my old account somone hacked http://www.steamcalculator.com/id/bittin when i was like 14-15 :( and dumb enough to accept a trojan
<directhex> http://store.steampowered.com/app/39190
<bittin^work> so thats why i got http://www.steamcalculator.com/id/bittin1 now :p
<bittin^work> a 1
<Mez> bittin^work: why not recover your old account ?
<bittin^work> Mez, becouse i dont remember that email and stuff
<bigcalm> When you were 14-15? bittin^work, how old are you now?
<bittin^work> becouse hacker changed that too :p
<bittin^work> 21
<bittin^work> Steam member since: 2003-09-13
<bittin^work> Steam member since: 2005-10-26 and have more games etc at the new account anyways :p
<Mez> Steam member since: 2005-08-08 <-- :)
<bittin^work> but if i could get my old account back from the hacker i would not mind
<diplo> Steam member since: 2003-09-14
<bittin^work> but it was hacked in 2004 and i dont remember what email and stuff i used i think guy changed that aswell
<bigcalm> I joined in November 2004. I wonder what was released back then to make me join
<bigcalm> hl2 maybe?
<Leckey> http://www.steamcalculator.com/id/ianleckey/
<diplo> Probably, I used to play day of defeat, probably upgraded with steam
<Leckey> not very accurate
<Leckey> since condition zero deleted scenes, pretty sure is not 99$
<Leckey> nor did i even buy it?!
<diplo> No, defo don't have saints row as an option, forgot i installed steam on work laptop
<Leckey> I'm pretty depressed that I have 760.6 hrs on Football Manager
<daubers> Hmm... when did Ubuntu change to biosdevname?
<bigcalm> Half-Life 2 Release Date: 16 Nov 2004 - I was right :)
<diplo> For 12.10 isn't it daubers, was on the server mailing list a weeks ago/ month ago
<diplo> Saying it was going live
<diplo> a few*
<daubers> diplo: Ah, must have missed that! Just noticed all my ports are labelled differently :) No matter. I have a script somewhere that'll fix it
<diplo> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-January/034688.html
<diplo> Part of the talk about it, was a more recent one
<daubers> diplo: Yeah, google just found me that, it's not an issue as I modify the udev rules anyway so have something that can easily make stuff work again
<daubers> diplo: I'm obviously a little out of touch at the moment!
<diplo> heh, I'm not that in touch, just remember seeing the email. We dont use ubuntu at work apart from me so it's not something I look out for that much
<daubers> What I'd really really love is for someone to impliment geolocation based profiling for my user profiles
<daubers> i.e. thunderbird uses my work accounts at work, and home accounts at home
<daubers> that would be superfun
<diplo> Sounds good, get coding :P
<daubers> diplo: It's on my list of projects I'd like to do when I have time :)
<diplo> hah, good luck.. rarely seem to have time for anything
<daubers> diplo: The list is 6 A$ pages long now.... almost got my MQTT-S stuff working \o/
<daubers> A4 even
<daubers> stupidfingers
<diplo> :D - Do you spend much time with the missus?
<daubers> diplo: Yep! Just having to adjust my sleeping hours to get stuff done
<diplo> No kids yet then
<daubers> Nope :)
 * popey says nice things to Laney and points him at https://bugs.launchpad.net/nikki/+bug/1056832
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1056832 in Nikki and the Robots "Create a .deb package for convenience" [Wishlist,New]
<popey> :D
<bittin^work> :)
<popey> Laney, I'll donate a beer token to the charity of your choice if you package that :)
<penguin42> wow, a game written in haskell
<Mez> popey: does it comply with DFSG (and possibly more importantly) FHS?
<popey> there has already been two attempts to get it into debian
<popey> which have stalled
<popey> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-games/2011/10/threads.html#00025
<Daviey> The licencing looks ok, but it seems to bundle stuff.. which is less than cool.
<bittin^work> i did not get any steam key even if it said i would if i paied 1â¬ or more
<bittin^work> ah well
<Laney> popey: there already is one
<Laney> I swear I linked it the other day
<popey> one what? package?
<Laney> it's just not uploaded yet
<Laney> ye
<Laney> there's some bug they're trying to work out or something
<Laney> it's how I'm playing it :-)
<popey> link me up!
<Laney> http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-games/packages/trunk/nikki/
<Laney> I uploaded haskell-sfml-audio to Quantal yesterday or Monday in preparation for that actually
<bittin^work> ah its coded in haskell cool
<popey> \o/
<awilkins> Anyone know a whois service that doesn't use the searches to steal the domain you just searched for?
<popey> how can anyone know that? :)
<awilkins> Personal experience?
<bittin^work> whois in your shell ?
<popey> I don't know, who is in my shell?
<popey> Ghost in the shell?
<bittin^work> whois in MR gnu-tools
 * awilkins is working on a machine called "Motoko" ; irony
<bittin^work> or if its bsd-tools
<bittin^work> :D
<bittin^work> my machine is called martins-laptop
<bittin^work> haven't named it something cool yet
<awilkins> Bah, GoDaddy have the domain I want until 15th decemeber
<awilkins> Gets
<awilkins> Gits
<awilkins> GitS == Ghost in the Shell. Spooky amount of confluence here
<bittin^work> and my boxes at home is called WINEDOWS4 and cindy
<awilkins> I think I searched whois for it... about 15th Dec 2011... strange coincidence
<awilkins> That's the day they registered it. Dogs.
<awilkins> "Domains By Proxy, LLC" otherwise known as "The front company that GoDaddy uses to domain-jack you."
<bittin^work> and iam turning of Windows 8 and Debian and going home, cya
<mungojerry> do domain squatters generally renew their domains after squatting on them for 2 years with no bids?
<mungojerry> a domain i wanted expired and i wasn't able to buy it on expiry day cos a quatter nicked it
<awilkins> I'm about to find out if they abandon them after a year in December
<awilkins> I have a calendar appointment set to register it on that day
<mungojerry> now they want "229
<mungojerry> awilkins, i think you need to sign up with a company to nail it for you
<mungojerry> unless you run your own script
<mungojerry> the whole thing is a swindle
<awilkins> It was weird enough that my search for it was the first thing that caused it to be created
<awilkins> Silly me, using GoDaddy as a whois
<awilkins> "OOh, a domain someone wants! *squat*"
<mungojerry> my one was swuashed by sedo :S
<mungojerry> "SEDO.COM has been accused by some U.S. companies of trademark infringement, and cyber-squatting .."
<awilkins> Just used their search to look for a domain that insults them. We
<awilkins> shall see if they register it and put one of their parking websites on it soon.
<mungojerry> gone are the days when an average Joe could register hotmail.com when MS forgot to renew it
<AlanBell> HDD1
<AlanBell> oops
<AlanBell> silly barcode reader
<penguin42> AlanBell: ?
<AlanBell> was messing with a barcode reader, they act as a keyboard and I zapped a barcode for HDD1
<bigcalm> Can barcodes do utf8?
<AlanBell> some types
<AlanBell> some can't even do lower case
 * davmor2 loves the fact that barcodes all include the number 666 :D
<penguin42> davmor2: Now there is something I didn't know ?
<davmor2> penguin42: the double bar that is longer at the start the middle and the end are all 6's
<AlanBell> code39 just starts and ends with *
<penguin42> davmor2: Ah, so not actually a run of 3 6's in a row
<AlanBell> that is the EAN barcodes, like this bag of wasabi peas which is 5060036012151
<AlanBell> the reader misses out those double bars
<penguin42> AlanBell: Humdinger wasabi peas from Asda?
<davmor2> AlanBell: they are positional markers that are looked for by the scanner, the barcode marker just happened to choose the same bar structure as a six
<AlanBell> penguin42: yup!
<penguin42> AlanBell: google's search for stuff like that is quite neat
<awilkins> What colour are those wasabi peas? Green, or yellow?
<AlanBell> green
<awilkins> Shame, they do that by dying them with blue and yellow dye
<awilkins> I like Whitworths Wasabi Bean Mix
<awilkins> No colours
<awilkins> Used to mess with barcode readers a bit
<awilkins> THe one we had, had a booklet of barcodes you used to configure it
<awilkins> Didn't do the 2D barcodes though
<AlanBell> yeah, same as this one
<awilkins> Although you can do those with just a webcam now
<AlanBell> I just got a cheap and nasty handheld optical scanner
<awilkins> Barcoded mailmerge letters
<awilkins> Quicker for the office admin staff to process
<penguin42> the scanners still seem to be way faster than anything camera/software based
<Mez> barcode scanners are fun - though integrating them with web based systems - not so much fun :)
<Mez> (espescially when they're all configured to do <barcode input><enter>
<Mez> (when you want a tab)
<AlanBell> Mez: that bit is reconfigurable with the manual
<Mez> AlanBell: sometimes you want an enter, sometimes you want a tab.
<AlanBell> oh
<Mez> So you have to assume enter - and then capture it when you want something with multiple scans
<MartijnVdS> We used barcodes + a web app when sending ADSL modems 10 years ago :)
<MartijnVdS> that was a _cool_ app to write back then
<Mez> my experience is from a full warehouse inventory system (from goods coming through the door to being shipped out to customers and all the bits inbetween)
<AlanBell> yeah, you need to scan three barcodes to change to barcode<tab> and 
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: but then it's always <tab> while sometimes it has to be <enter>
<AlanBell> CPU1
<MartijnVdS> and you can't reconfigure on the fly
<MartijnVdS> well you can but it's a lot of work :)
<AlanBell> well you can, but reconfiguring on the fly means scanning 3 codes to change
<Mez> AlanBell: which is a pain, and requires users not to be idiots and known when to scan those codes.
<AlanBell> yeah
<diplo> I had to integrate my scanners/printers with SAP
<diplo> It was horrible :(
<Dave2> I don't even really know what SAP is but I'm sure I could've told you that
<diplo> One of the biggest software companies out there
<diplo> popey loves it
<Dave2> I know of SAP, I just don't really know what it is
<Dave2> Other than Expensive and It Does Stuff
<AlanBell> it is a bit like OpenERP, but bigger
<Dave2> also Enterprise
<diplo> And stupider and sh**
<diplo> and stuff
<diplo> To explain how bad, empty oracle install without our data was 120GB!!!
<mungojerry> i'm trying to remember if i bought a particular album already (on CD) ...it's proving difficult
<MartijnVdS> diplo: wut
<diplo> yah, stupid :)
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: Alzheimer's Lite?
<mungojerry> i think i forgot to rip it, and consequently unsure if i own it
<Laney> you don't have a sorted CD collection?
<Laney> sorted by genre, then artist, then year of course
<mungojerry> i have a flight box sorted by artist
<mungojerry> but sometimes they don't get added to the box
<mungojerry> and worse still, a lot of bands don't even write the name of the band or album on the cd
<mungojerry> no distinguishing marks
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: you don't keep the boxes?!
<MartijnVdS> jewel cases
<MartijnVdS> whatever
<mungojerry> nah
 * davmor2 is looking forward to the simple pleasures of Sausage Egg and Chips for tea hmmmmmmmmm
<mungojerry> not even space
<mungojerry> not enough space to store cds and boxes, just the CDs in this case http://www.maplin.co.uk/500-cd-dvd-storage-case-220968
<bigcalm> How do people serve their music collections to all devices in a house these days?
<einonm> bigcalm: my synology NAS does a brilliant job of that
<bigcalm> I'd love my cable box to hook into a music collection as well. Guessing that's not going to happen any time soon
<einonm> a lot of devices are getting DLNA added these days, including STBs. It's a shame that DLNA is a bit pants
<MartijnVdS> the protocol is *SHUDDER*
<MartijnVdS> however, it does work.
<MartijnVdS> sort of.
 * MartijnVdS pets his Synology NAS
<MartijnVdS> my preciousss
<einonm> A cheap 2nd hand PS3 also does the job for watching films/music/piccies on the TV
<awilkins> I have an ancient Sempron box running MythTV
<awilkins> But for music I just carry storage devices around and sync them when they meet
<awilkins> 32GB USB drive, my external backup drive, and the MythTV server
 * penguin42 must get a piece of cat5 downstairs to the other tv
<awilkins> Not entered the HD era as yet
<MartijnVdS> 802.11n @ 5GHz :)
<awilkins> Still have an old SD CRT TV
<penguin42> awilkins: Yeh me too up here
<awilkins> MythTV box would probably have a minor fit if you asked it to do HD
<penguin42> awilkins: I think the biggest thing stopping me replacing it is the effort of moving it
<awilkins> 50Kg, nearly ruptured self putting it on stand
<awilkins> Probably not strong enough to move it now, it was over 10 years ago
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> awilkins: and it's on the 1st floor...
<awilkins> Oh great. Rain
<awilkins> We had a single burst of lightning earlier. That was fun.
<awilkins> I can feel the pressure change challenging my sinuses
<awilkins> As a nation we really should investigate the feasibility of powering things with rain (yes, I know, hydroelectric)
<penguin42> awilkins: It's hardly stopped for the last few days here - we had a clear few hours earlier
<MartijnVdS> Or sea-foam power
<pinky-> nutrient rich
<Laney> http://www.introversion.co.uk/prisonarchitect/
<Laney> looks awesome
<SuperEngineer> honest guv, it wasn't me!  http://idle.slashdot.org/story/12/09/26/0526231/linux-forcibly-installed-on-congressmans-computer-in-act-of-terrorism?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
<diplo> Laney: looks pants to me :)
<Laney> k
<diplo> heh
<popey> HTTP Error 503 (Service Unavailable):
<Laney> popey: on my link?
<Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDDzSOS0vzc&feature=player_embedded
<awilkins> >-<   ; just discover we pay someone to write, and continue to maintain... a bulletin board system
<popey> ya
<awilkins> I mean... huh?!?!?
<awilkins> You can download BBS software for nowt all over the web
<awilkins> Our project management system (Redmine) even has one built in
<awilkins> And they PAY SOMEONE TO WRITE ONE
<awilkins> And surprise, it's rather primitive and lacking in the modern conveniences I'd expect from a BBS
<awilkins> And this is why the government can't have nice things
<diplo> Sounds like most companies awilkins
<diplo> :)
<awilkins> Oh yes, been both sides of the public / private partnership fence
<awilkins> Same stupid dross, different office address
<awilkins> Par example ; "Hey, yeah, we considered OpenID for our web single sign on.. and then we paid three developers for 6 months to roll our own in C#. You can use anything you like with it, as long as that's .NET too."
 * awilkins facepalms
 * MartijnVdS headdesks
<awilkins> I've not seen the source code for it yet
<awilkins> I would not be surprised if I reviewed it and find it commits one or more cardinal sins of insecurity
<awilkins> Top suspects ; - passwords stored with [no|reversible] encryption - passwords hashed without salt - invented own cryptographic primitives
 * Laney footdoors
<awilkins> But those are just the semi-intelligent guesses
<awilkins> There is, like in D&D, about a 5% chance of some critical failure I've just not thought of.
<Leckey> you'd be surprised how many "forward thinking" IT companies are still on the .NET bandwagon
<awilkins> When I have to write code in C#, I like it, as a language goes
<awilkins> For doing GUIs, the MS tools climb up a set of stepladders and then wee all over Java from a great height.
<awilkins> Although I've not had a proper play with the new Eclipse / e4 stuff
<awilkins> So I may change my opinion of that shortly
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/rcSLg.jpg
<Leckey> thing that annoys me about c#
<Leckey> is no native json libs
<awilkins> http://json.codeplex.com/ ?
<Kieran> .
<RadiumCat> >.
<bigcalm> I don't know why the USC said that my graphics card wasn't up to playing Dust Force. No trouble at all and it's fun to play
<bigcalm> davmor2: fix USC
<davmor2> bigcalm: because the tag has a limit that you're card didn't meet, it doesn't mean it won't run, it is more a warning that it might not be optimal
<bigcalm> davmor2: I think you've told me this before :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: but the information should be more along the lines of "it might not work, give it a go anyway :)"
<davmor2> bigcalm: it does the but says buy/install anyway
<bigcalm> Hummz
<samuelj> jrub
 * SuperEngineer thinks that makes the score 2-0 to davmor2 
<jacobw> evening
<bigcalm> Morning
 * jacobw pokes bigcalm with the wrong stick
<bigcalm> jacobw: that's so very wrong
<davmor2> jacobw: Tis alway's morning on the T'interweb
<directhex> http://video.unity3d.com/video/6958381/unite-2012-linux-and-flash
<popey> ubuntu sticker on her laptop :)
<bootlkjkgf> Anything could happen in the next 90 minutes [bookmark] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/Musopen/open-source-bug-tracking
<popey> thanks directhex
<davmor2> directhex: nice :)
<ali1234> canonical packaging service is only free for commercial apps right?
<directhex> dunno
<directhex> you'd think canonical would have fixed wizorb's broken deps
<ali1234> ha
<popey> no, free for free apps too
<AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/ Canonical provides this packaging service free of charge for commercial apps.
<davmor2> ali1234: yeap commercial being free of cost/or priced, but licensed non openly,  The free apps that go in the extras repo via ARB need to be packaged separately as it integrates into the system like a normal app.
<AlanBell> so if you close it your life is easy, if you open it you have to go through the ARB?
<ali1234> basically
<AlanBell> wow. Close it, get it packaged then open up
<ali1234> why even bother opening it up?
<ali1234> also plenty of these packages have problems
<ali1234> there doesn't seem to be a way of reporting said problems
<ali1234> at least, not a way that actually gets the problems fixed
<hamitron> what is the agreement like, do you sign many rights to your own app away?
<davmor2> ali1234: what are you on about now?
<ali1234> you can't report bugs against the packages in launchpad because the packages are all private
<AlanBell> yeah, that has always been an issue with things that are in the partners repo too
<ali1234> davmor2: when i find bugs in commercial software bought from software center there is no way to report bugs against those packages
<ali1234> especially when said packages were packaged by canonical and the bugs are package bugs
<AlanBell> and if you do report bugs the software authors are not looking in launchpad and no ubuntu developers are looking at them because they are not in the repos
<ali1234> yeah and the authors of the software don't know anything about packaging anyway so they can't fix it if they want to
<davmor2> ali1234: that's because we aren't going to fix it.  We don't have access to the code.  There is a link in software-center that link to the app manufactures here are my issues page
<ali1234> davmor2: did you even read what i wrote?
<ali1234> what if the bug is caused by "canonical packaging service"
<ali1234> you're not going to fix your own bugs?
<popey> some confusion here between commercial apps in usc and stuff in partner repo. not the same thing..
<AlanBell> oh, ok
<ali1234> AlanBell: you can't report bugs against USC stuff for exactly that reason
<ali1234> well, actually you sort of can because of a bug in launchpad, unless it's been fixed
<davmor2> AlanBell: Commercial Apps are not in repos,  ARB go in extras, Partner is companies that partner with us directly
<davmor2> ali1234: you just do ubuntu-bug software-center
<AlanBell> I don't appear to have any paid apps in software centre anyhow (just a few magazines, mostly in german)
<ali1234> ok, i'll do that in future to report all packaging bugs against any software i buy...
<davmor2> AlanBell: you on Quantal
<AlanBell> davmor2: yes
<hamitron> !quantal
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.10 (Quantal Quetzal) will be the 17th release of Ubuntu, Discussion and support until final release in #ubuntu+1
<hamitron> just checking
<hamitron> ;)
<davmor2> AlanBell: yeap we are in the process of testing and porting the 400+ apps at the moment, in the meantime you can do SOFTWARE_CENTER_DISTRO_CODENAME='precise'
<AlanBell> ah ok
<popey> handy
<popey> davmor2, in the video John says when you buy stuff you get an email saying where to get support from.. the mail doesn't actually say that :(
<davmor2> AlanBell: SOFTWARE_CENTER_DISTRO_CODENAME='precise' software-center  (sorry)
<popey> I'll speak to John about it
<davmor2> popey: the email has a link in it for refund support
<AlanBell> davmor2: yes, I figured that bit out (except for the spelling of center)
<popey> yeah, but not how to file a bug in the game
<popey> which he indicated is in there
<ali1234> i don't want support and i don't want a refund. i want you to fix the trivial bugs so that the next million people who buy it don't have to jump through the same hoops that i did
<AlanBell> are they all just games?
<popey> ok captain pedant
<davmor2> popey: no he does say there is a link to them earlier and then there is a link to us in the email
<popey> "but not how to tell us the game is broken"
<davmor2> AlanBell: no there loads
<davmor2> AlanBell: planners, journals, mags, books, merge tools, a stupidly expensive minisipserver etc
<AlanBell> what is the sip server called?
<davmor2> AlanBell: it isn't released yet I don't think but will be by tomorrow unless they don't get they need to release it
<davmor2> AlanBell: minisipserver is the name of it when it is available at a meagre $199
<AlanBell> xeoma looks interesting
<popey> heh
<davmor2> AlanBell: security camera
<AlanBell> yeah, I am just looking for things that are not games and not ebooks
<davmor2> AlanBell: dayjournal if that is released now is quite funky, very simple but does what it say on the tin, although again that was tested today so might not be out yet
<ali1234> wow this guy talking about flash is actually really interesting
<ali1234> explaining how they use llvm to turn unity source into actionscript
<AlanBell> Sistema de facturacion e Inventario Akane looks interesting, but not very translated
<davmor2> AlanBell: Yeah it's meant to be a half decent Accounty type system from what I can figure
<AlanBell> well having got to the end of the list I think all the high value things that I want are already Free Software
<AlanBell> Vovoid VSXu might be good
<davmor2> AlanBell: darhon finance iirc the name is okay I can't remember if that cost anything though
<AlanBell> yes, that looks OK, kind of a simplified gnucash from the screenshots
<AlanBell> what do apple/Android do with old and useless stuff in the stores that probably doesn't work anymore and nobody cares?
<davmor2> AlanBell: IntelliJ is meant to be a pretty good ide for java if that floats your boat
<ali1234> AlanBell: they release a new version of their OS and all the old programs have to be ported or die
<ali1234> a less cynical view is that they don't break their OS stable releases so it's just not a problem
<davmor2> AlanBell: if you're into stocks and shares stocktracker is pretty good
<AlanBell> davmor2: yeah, I saw that one (I have no money)
<davmor2> AlanBell: Fairmat Academic is another financy type thing
<AlanBell> oh ok, I missed some that are closed but have no price tag
 * AlanBell buys fairmat academic
<davmor2> AlanBell: long standing bug and gripe I've had that $0.00 should have install and not buy...
<AlanBell> had to bounce through the payment processor too
<AlanBell> it looks a bit windows95ish
<AlanBell> alan     26653  6.0  0.9 693408 77520 ?        Sl   20:32   0:10 mono /opt/fairmat-academic/Fairmat.exe
<AlanBell> that will be why then
<AlanBell> ok, so the MDI interface in this doesn't work in unity
<davmor2> AlanBell: yeah nothing we can do about that,  it needs to set up a subscription to the ppa to allow download,   hopefully to shut popey up the login screen will go away in 13.04 but we will have to wait and see
<popey> :)
<AlanBell> you can't resize the windows properly, you can minimise and maximise them, but not drag the corner
<AlanBell> that is going to be a bug in the toolkit, probably not the application, probably not compiz
<AlanBell> and it just stole keyboard focus from irssi to tell me my session expired and I need to register it to carry on
<AlanBell> people will leave bug reports in the reviews area ali1234
<ali1234> AlanBell: it says not to do that
<AlanBell> thats what I was about to do, but the review window doesn't work for me
<AlanBell> (software-center:25394): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to show 'none': Operation not supported
<AlanBell> davmor2: is that because I am on quantal and forcing it back to precise, or should I file a bug?
<AlanBell> hmm, the application wants sudo access to bring up a registration page - and isn't presenting a gksudo dialog
 * AlanBell declines
<davmor2> AlanBell: no it's just a gtk warning, those will be killed in the coming month or post release they are non-essential and normally no seen, it's basically just finding old bit of code that gtk3 has depreciate and complaining about it
<AlanBell> ok, I click on write your own review, a window pops up for a few seconds then goes away and that gets spat out to the terminal I launched USC from
<ali1234> i see them all the time
<davmor2> AlanBell: Yeah that might not work as the app technically isn't release for Quantal
<AlanBell> davmor2: fair enough
<davmor2> oh well time to go down stairs night all
<AlanBell> night davmor2
<popey> directhex, what do you think would be the minimum hardware to run the unity3d GUI on? :)
<popey> 1.6GHz Atom (Revo) with ION GFX? :)
<directhex> sure. depending on the complexity of your project
<popey> takes _minutes_ to startup
<czajkowski> dear pasta cook faster the rest of dinner is cooked
<dogmatic69> anyone know how I can open a .tar file?
<penguin42> tar -xvf file.tar
<penguin42> extracts it
<dogmatic69> ah
<penguin42> there are a few gui things that will let you browse it etc if that's your thing
<dogmatic69> damn amateur tutorial had -zxvf
<penguin42> z is for compressed ones
<dogmatic69> on a server
<dogmatic69> would that have done .tar.bz2?
<penguin42> z is  bz2 compress, x is extract, v is verbose, j is bzip2 compression
<penguin42> tar --help  will list them all
<dogmatic69> ah. First tutorial I read on 'extract bz2' was 'buzip2 ...'
<popey> no
<popey> you dont need the z or j
<dogmatic69> :/
<popey> tar auto-detects the compression and uses the right tool
<popey> just use xvf
<penguin42> popey: That's pretty new isn't it?
<popey> few years
<dogmatic69> as far as I am conserned this tar app just checks you have some random chars after the - :P
<penguin42> exactly :-)
<popey> heh
<dogmatic69> *concerned
<penguin42> popey: Anyway, it's easier to remember them for when you're creating
<dogmatic69> popey: I downloaded it again and tar -xvf does a bz2 just fine
<dogmatic69> thanks all
<penguin42> popey: I've been putting the z in for nearly 20 years so it might take a little while to not do it
<dogmatic69> :D
<Azelphur> popey: I found out what was up with my printer, the cartridges were blocked up, left them soaking in cleaning fluid for 8 hours, it works 100% perfect now
<popey> super
<ali1234> directhex: can i just start writing a unity3d game without using the unity editor?
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xyagw1uj8ssihnu/2012-09-26%2021.55.39.jpg
<Azelphur> before and after lol
<penguin42> Azelphur: Yeh inkjets tend to get like that if you leave them for a few days
<Azelphur> penguin42: heh, mine had been abused a bit, my brother 100% drained the ink, then left it for a few months with no ink in it, so it obviously really dried up, head clean operations did nothing :(
<Azelphur> soaking the cartridges worked though
<ali1234> lol you never told us that
<ali1234> you said it just stopped working one day :)
<Azelphur> haha, I didn't put the two together until I seriously inspected the cartridge
<ali1234> yes, a few months without ink will do that
<Azelphur> he ultra drained it, the sponges were white inside the cartridge lol
<Azelphur> it's all good now anyway, 30ml of ink in every cartridge, should last a while
<Azelphur> and now I know how to fix it if it happens again, a little acetone bath :)
<popey> ali1234, i just get a loading screen for unity3d and then a blank window :(
<popey> window controls are there but no content inside, its running but some issue :(
<ali1234> popey: sure. i don't want or need the editor though
<ali1234> actually this question relates mono as a whole. if i write helloworld.cs in gedit, how do i build it with gnu make, say?
<ali1234> every doc i see says basically to let monodevelop or some other IDE autogenerate a monstrous impenetrable build system
<ali1234> for helloworld.c you don't even need a Makefile as the built in rules are enough
<Laney> call the compiler?
<Laney> dmcs helloworld.cs
<ali1234> Laney: that's actually helpful to me. one of the problems i hit was there's about 5 different compilers in mono and i never know which one to use
<Laney> http://www.mono-project.com/CSharp_Compiler
<ali1234> yeah exactly
<ali1234> so actually mcs?
<Laney> if you have 2.11
<Laney> which you don't if you are using the distro package
<ali1234> oh :(
<ali1234> see what i mean?
<Laney> not really
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> it works!
<directhex> ali1234: NAFAIK
<Azelphur> This looks pretty cool, http://mtxone.com/products/matrixone android tablet for like Â£40 and the specs don't seem too bad either
<ali1234> yeah nice renders
<Azelphur> there are videos of it on youtube that I checked out, it looks ok in the flesh too
<Azelphur> for a Â£40 tablet, it seems very nice
<ali1234> videos from random people who bought one?
<popey> massive bezel
<Azelphur> yep
<hamitron> plus VAT, plus postage
<Azelphur> hamitron: well, it's Â£37, so it'd probably come to Â£50 shipped
<penguin42> oh that's impressively cheap
<penguin42> (crap display, but still)
<ali1234> 800x480 is plenty
<ali1234> mobile GPUs aren't good enough to do much better than that anyway
<ali1234> actually this tablet is more or less the same specs as an N900
<penguin42> ali1234: Well thing slike the nexus 7 is doing 1280x800 display - so 4x the res - on an admittedly chunkier cpu
<ali1234> except the N900 has 32GB
<penguin42> ali1234: Other than twice the ram and a cpu clocked 2-3 times faster
<ali1234> N900 scales up to 1GHz, can go to 1.2GHz if you hack it
<ali1234> but pixel pushing is a function of GPU, not CPU
<penguin42> I'm guessing that tablet is an Allwinner A10 - most of the cheap stuff is; plenty of boards around for ~$45, that's the first tablet I've seen
<ali1234> so it depends what GPU this has
<penguin42> ali1234: If it's the A10 it'll be a Mali400 I think
<ali1234> cortex A8 it says
<ali1234> same as N900
<penguin42> ali1234: The Allwinner a10 is a cortex a8
<ali1234> ok
<penguin42> ali1234: Although there are lots of choices of which gpu to put with that
<ali1234> they need to stop calling everything A<n>
<penguin42> ali1234: Indeed (apple play the same trick)
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh so the n900 has an OMAP3430 which has PowerVR graphics, not sure which is faster, I suspect the PowerVR
<ali1234> the A8 is istself armv7, isn't it?
<penguin42> ali1234: armv7 architecture
<penguin42>    ^instruction set architecture
<ali1234> which is newer than ARM11, which was actually armv6
<ali1234> this stuff makes no sense
<penguin42> ali1234: Indeed
<ali1234> anyway, it seems good for the price
<penguin42> yeh
<ali1234> i would want to know more about the architecture before buying one though
<ali1234> so they have a GPL download page?
<ali1234> their forum has two posts on it?
<penguin42> ali1234: I doubt it, if it is an A10 based thing there are zillions of different A10 boards out there and there is kernel source
<penguin42> ali1234: see #arm-netbooks if interested, lots of people playing with a10 stuff (not that we're sure it is a10)
<ali1234> yeah i'm not really convinced this is legit
<hamitron> wish they still made the N900
<penguin42> ali1234: It could be for that price, there are lots of things at similar price points in tv box like things, haven't seen a tablet though
<ali1234> if they released a BSP for it i'd probably get one
<ali1234> or even just released enough info that i could go and find a compatible one
<penguin42> ali1234: cubieboard.org is about $45 for a bare board (but with a lot more pinned out but no tablet)
<ali1234> no screen, no battery, no case?
<ali1234> no power supply?
<penguin42> yeh, just a dev board
<ali1234> bring your own SD card?
<penguin42> yep
<ali1234> so you're looking at $150
<ali1234> and lots of duct tape
<penguin42> lots of duct tape, but not $100 - it's more of a dev board not a tablet
<penguin42> ali1234: It has things like ether and sata pinned out
<ali1234> yeah. dev board for what though?
<penguin42> ali1234: like a pi is , but with a decent CPU and networking and ram
<ali1234> the point of a dev board is to test your software for use in a tablet or something
<penguin42> ali1234: they should make a nice little NAS or media player with the addition of a box
<ali1234> if you just want to make "apps" (which is really all the Pi is actually good for btw) then a dev board is not useful
<penguin42> shrug
<ali1234> beside,s i have plenty of boards i could use to make a NAS
<ali1234> i also have a NAS
<penguin42> ali1234: My point really was about the cost, I'm just saying that tablets price is not stupidly low if you can build a low qunatity board for ~$45
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> it's possible for it to be real
<ali1234> that doesn't mean it is though
<penguin42> true
<ali1234> if multiple people have bought and received them i'd expect more than 2 posts on their forum
<ali1234> literally 2 posts, not two threads
<ali1234> both fromt he same user i think
<ali1234> what i don't understand is if someone wants to make a cheap educational computer, why are they putting in cutting edge (and heavily patented) GPUs and stuff?
<penguin42> ali1234: They're not, they're just buying a cheap chip that includes CPU and GPU
<ali1234> the chinese can put a SNES inside a game controller for $5
<ali1234> retail
<ali1234> so "it's cheap" is not a convincing argument
<directhex> you'd be amazed at ust how terrifyingly bad some cheap arm SoC implementations can be
<directhex> as in bafflingly insane corners being cut
<ali1234> true
<penguin42> directhex: Got some good examples?
<ali1234> but if you're not allowed to know about how it works, what does it matter?
<ali1234> penguin42: i do
<directhex> penguin42: the USB stack on the raspberry pi's broadcom, for example
<penguin42> directhex: Oh yes
<ali1234> oh the chinese MIPS chips make broadcom look like geniuses seriously
<penguin42> ali1234: I agree on having a closed gpu, it doesn't do much good for education
<directhex> ali1234: are those missing hardware FPUs? nobody in #debian-mips answered me
<ali1234> god knows
<ali1234> probably
<penguin42> ali1234: But there again I don't understand the point of an educational computer given what you can do with a 2 year old pc
<directhex> penguin42: scope
<penguin42> scope?
<ali1234> penguin42: PCs are clunky, fragile, unportable, and expensive
<directhex> penguin42: computer science was FAR more alive during the bbc era than when every family had an amazing multi-ghz pc
<ali1234> yes!
<ali1234> the BBC came with full documentation
<directhex> we desperately need a new bbc model b
<ali1234> i even remember my amiga came with circuit diagrams
<directhex> and a new ecosystem of shitty alternatives
<directhex> some of which may be excessively welsh
<penguin42> directhex: I'm not actually sure I agree, I grew up on a model B and programmed it down to the bone, but you can do pretty much the same on a well chosen cheap pc
<ali1234> CIRCUIT DIAGRAMS
<ali1234> imagine that
<directhex> penguin42: can, or do?
<ali1234> penguin42: of course. all you need to do is load up a BBC emulator...
<directhex> penguin42: nobody - *NOBODY* - other than the nerdiest of nerds uses a pc for anything but facebook these days
<penguin42> directhex: can, very rarely do - I know a few people who've written their own OSs that boot off a floppy image on a PC
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh my Beeb emulator is one of the well known ones :-)
<AlanBell> http://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Raspberry-Pi-Schematics-R1.0.pdf
<penguin42> directhex: But that's not because you can't - I'm not sure the number of nerds has decreased, I think it's purely that there have been an increased number of non-nerds
<penguin42> The attraction of the pi is it's cheap enough (and light and small enough) to be disposable - i.e. strappable to weather balloons or giveable to kids
<ali1234> AlanBell: yeah but the amiga had discrete chips for each part
<AlanBell> ali1234: it did, paula, denise, the blitter/blimmer and a few others
<ali1234> the raspberry pi isn't much more than a breakout board for BCM2835
<penguin42> directhex: Look at the number of hack spaces and similar that there are now with people doing things; I don't believe the nerdyness has disappeared; it's just that it's easier these days to drive your IO from a $5 USB->IO lead from perl/python/etc than it is to go poking in sheila
<AlanBell> Agnus
<ali1234> penguin42: not if you want to do anything more advanced than control some fairy lights it isn't
<penguin42> AlanBell: Oh heck, what was Agnus?
<ali1234> agnus was memory controller
<ali1234> fat agnus allowed 1MB of "chip memory" (what we'd call GPU memory now
<penguin42> ali1234: I bet you can drive the IO's on a USB parallel adapter as fast as you could drive the IO on a user port on a model B (I think!)
<ali1234> or was it fatter agnus?
<ali1234> i forget
<penguin42> ali1234: Ah you see, I was a Beeb/Archimedes guy, never did buy an Amiga
<directhex> penguin42: we don't need the ppc b because of the hardware, we need the culture it fostered
<ali1234> yes!
<penguin42> directhex: But my point is the culture is still here - it's just that there are more non-geeks around
<directhex> we need schools teaching super young kids to code, we need kids enthused about the concept
<ali1234> it's not about teaching how to code
<directhex> we need to end all IT teaching in schools immediately
<ali1234> it's about teaching how to be curious, and to solve problems on their own
<directhex> nothing's done more to hurt computer science than bloody secretary training GCSEs
<ali1234> any one can cut and paste some code and change a few lines
<penguin42> directhex: Oh I don't know, I think the IT teaching is a separate problem
<ali1234> it's about teaching how to *invent*
<directhex> bedtime. crazy early start tomorrow.
 * penguin42 is on holiday tomorrow - yawn :-)
<ali1234> example: would this be possible on a raspberry pi? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphex_Twin#ZX81_competition
<penguin42> yes
<ali1234> i would say no
<directhex> cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp
<directhex> DONE
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh but that's because of the demise of analog tv's
<ali1234> no, and no
<ali1234> you couldn't do something like this on a raspberry pi because the kind of gpu registers you'd need to access to do it are not accessable from the arm core
<ali1234> and the reason for that is because a large part of how the BCM part is designed is about limiting what can be done with it
<penguin42> ali1234: you are aware of the pc speaker sound kernel module aren't you - the one which does /dev/dsp by modulating the normal PC speaker wired to an io line?
<penguin42> ali1234: I agree the bcm is a really bad choice
<ali1234> what does this have to do with anything?
<ali1234> the problem is that everything you can do with a raspberry pi has already been done
<penguin42> ali1234: my point is you can do that type of hack on pretty much anything
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm no, actually the nice thing with the PI is that because it's got such a low spec cpu and ram the really neat things will be people doing stuff which seem impossible in that spec
<ali1234> no, they won't
<ali1234> what exactly is impressive in 256mb of ram?
<ali1234> and a opengl GPU?
<penguin42> ali1234: The problem with the PC is that you can always find a faster one with more memory, the Pi can't do that
<penguin42> ali1234: It's still 256mb of ram and a poor gpu compared to a PC
<ali1234> for the kind of software a child would write?
<ali1234> what software actually needs that much memory? a video editing program perhaps?
<ali1234> you think some 7 year old is going to rewrite final cut pro?
<ali1234> that would be impressive, sure. it's not going to happen though
<AlanBell> opengl is good though
<hamitron> stops you using huge textures
<penguin42> ali1234: I think they'll try and write big demos and games
<ali1234> opengl is good but you can't really do clever hacks with it, because it is an abstraction
<AlanBell> meh to textures and clever hacks
<ali1234> opengl killed the demo scene for about 10 years
<ali1234> until GPUs got to the point where they caught up with what machine code hackers could do on an amiga
<hamitron> I personally think it will be the more advanced users building collections of software to be functional with that hardware, will be the best thing.... I can't see kids pushing it with personal apps
<penguin42> ali1234: Some of the GPUs on some of the little ARMs have been reverse engineered to some degree
<Darael> It is a nigh-universal fact in human history that people say the past was better than the present.  I see that in this conversation.
<penguin42> ali1234: Did you ever burn out your user port VIA on a model B though?
<ali1234> no
<penguin42> ali1234: I say it's probably a much better idea to do the IO down something like USB for most things :-)
<penguin42> one of my B's has a few bits of wiring over the scorch marks :-)
<ali1234> Darael: it's a demonstrable fact that IT education went downhill when PCs were introduced in to schools, and fixing that was one of the goals of the pi.
<hamitron> imo the pi won't do that
<penguin42> hamitron: Agreed
<ali1234> in fact the only goal really
<hamitron> but I'll have fun using it anyway
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> microsoft pushed PCs into schools to create a large number of office worker drones for their customers
<penguin42> haha
<ali1234> broadcom is pushing the pi into schools to create a large number of shovelware producing drones to fill up the app stores of the customers
<Darael> ali1234: That I would agree with.  The implication that it was better when people /had/ to do complicated (and very interesting, certainly) things to get fun things working is what I was referring to, not the horrible state of IT education at present.
<ali1234> neither is really about eduction, at least not any kind of education that produces innovation
<ali1234> teaching office is a type of education, after all
<penguin42> ali1234: I don't know about that; I think 'innovation' comes a bit from knowing what's possible/hard and having tools that you can use
<hamitron> what upsets me, is how "geeks" often don't learn basic principles in computing (and electronics), because "it is not needed"
<penguin42> but there again I'm alwys somewhat disbelieving when anyone says 'innovation'
<hamitron> and it even goes further back to not even learning mathematics
<ali1234> mathematics is all about innovation
<penguin42> hamitron: Again, I think that just comes back to being more geeks; some of whom are now content to wrangle stuff at a higher level, and I suspect just as many at the low level
<ali1234> if they are content to do that they are by definition not geeks
<hamitron> I just feel you are restricting innovation, if you restrict users to restricted tools
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm not sure, there are guys who know a heck of a lot more about higher up in the stack and do some crazy things with them that I haven't got a clue about; but I know how to debug something from a scope upwards
<hamitron> I read something today on a site about C programming.... it claimed nobody worries about wasting 2 bytes in each loop these days and stuff
<hamitron> such a shame....
<penguin42> hamitron: but these days what matters is stuff like cache hit ratios and tlb misses rather than necessarily the cycle count of how many add instructions you have - and that's a lot harder to follow
<ali1234> that's an argument i often see
<penguin42> ali1234: It's *mostly* true sadly, when one cache hit can eat a few hundred cycles
<ali1234> and what it basically boils down to is "things are more complicated now so we should not teach them. instead we should only teach the same things we have taught before, or stop teaching them entirely"
<hamitron> why not worry about both?
<penguin42> hamitron: If youv'e got the time then I agree
<hamitron> but users from their first teachings, are now not worried about defining the correct data types from what I've seen
<ali1234> you know, even an 8 bit CPU is a lot more complicated than a few logic gates. does that mean that in the 80s they should have just done boolean logic 101 and then said "but nobody worries about that any more"
<penguin42> hamitron: Actually if anything the data types are the critical bits
<ali1234> and then gone straight on to how to make a database in pascal
<penguin42> ali1234: Plenty of courses did
<penguin42> ali1234: Certainly when I was doing CS undergrad in the early 90's teaching electronics/basic logic cirtcuits was starting to go out
<hamitron> penguin42, I agree, but people seem to just not worry now
<penguin42> hamitron: But then you end up with someone writing the whole thing in python/javascript and wondering why it's slow
<hamitron> yeh :/
<ali1234> penguin42: on my course in 2002 it covered everything from boolean logic up to how to design a TLB
<penguin42> ali1234: Was that a computer engineering degree or generic CS ?
<ali1234> including "how to make a flip from from gates"
<ali1234> it was a generic CS degree
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm that was a good course; but did you elect to take that route or could you have gone more databasey?
<ali1234> the course also covered how to wwrite an OS process manager in MIPS assembler
<ali1234> it covered database design too
<ali1234> these were all core modules
<hamitron> some just teaching higher level though
<hamitron> :/
<penguin42> ali1234: Ours was 68k assembler on Atari's :-)
<hamitron> I never did the higher level, because I studied electronic engineering ;)
<ali1234> you could choose to stay on a particular track and get more advanced
<ali1234> to the architecture course got even more crazy. or you could go down the AI/robotics route
<ali1234> oh the core modules also covered graphics from GPU pipelines up to high level opengl, and also raytracing
<penguin42> hamitron: Yeh it's like a few years ago I worked with a bunch of serious analog guys, doing high speed serial transceivers, they could wrangle their smith charts in seriously scary ways but didn't know hex, but hey it's just different bits of skilsl
<ali1234> back then it was actually allowed to understand the graphics pipeline in an SGI machine
<penguin42> ali1234: Interesting, for us a lot of that was optional that elected, I did the 3d graphics course (and my M.Sc was a lot about GPU pipelines back in the days of large SGI kit)
<ali1234> actually some of this stuff i did must have been optional. can't remember what though
<hamitron> what is the best route to learn 3d programming now?
<ali1234> the core stuff was very comprehensive though
<ali1234> i think i did the 3d graphics course higher level too
<ali1234> one of the optional courses i didn't do was the high level compiler design one
<penguin42> hamitron: I think if I was trying to learn it now I'd probably do something like learn OpenGL via something like python
<hamitron> I've dabbled in bits out of interest, but there seems to be 2 routes..... start from the beginning, or miss it out
<ali1234> because the basic level one just destroyed me
 * penguin42 did some OpenGL a few years back, but nothing serious
<hamitron> I'd rather use C tbh
<ali1234> bu basically the core contained everything about how a computer works from logic gates up to UI design (that was a truely horrible course btw, and the only one we had to do on windows machines)
<penguin42> hamitron: It's easy enough then to write some OpenGL C
<ali1234> and i do mean *everything*
<penguin42> ali1234: Where was that?
<ali1234> manchester
<penguin42> ali1234: Haha so was I :-)
<penguin42> ali1234: And I thought they'd gone all Javay
<ali1234> there was a java course
<ali1234> there was a C course and a list course too
<hamitron> penguin42, fixed function pipeline?
<hamitron> or the new thingy
<ali1234> learn fixed function first
<ali1234> but learn how it works, not just how to use it
<hamitron> one of my books says not to
<ali1234> (see that's the key in learning anything)
<hamitron> yeh, that is my thinking
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> fixed function is a subset of the new stuff
<ali1234> so if you learn how fixed function does what it does, then you'll under stand how not having a fixed function is so much better, and what to do with the bits you have, at least how to recreate the ff stuff
<hamitron> tbh, I've only done bits of fixed function stuff so far
<hamitron> biggest problem (as is often the case), is time
<ali1234> you need to grasp the ideas of vector and matrix math, quaternions, projections, etc
<penguin42> hamitron: Yeh I dabbled with OpenGL when it first came out, and I had a bit more of a play a few years ago, but never had the time to really get the newer stuff
<hamitron> I think some of the books I have, try to get you creating too nicer stuff too fast
<hamitron> with the intention of keeping users interested
<hamitron> skimp on some stuff
<hamitron> but this is how things seem to be
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> ali1234, penguin42, ty, you've helped convince me I'm right wanting to look at older stuff a little more
<ali1234> more knowledge is never a bad thing
<hamitron> aye
<ali1234> sometimes it takes longer to digest it though
<hamitron> but I enjoy getting that knowledge anyway
<hamitron> even if it is not used so much
<hamitron> prefer that, to doing stuff that just seems to "be done this way, cuz it is"
<hamitron> ali1234, does your game compile on windows btw?
<ali1234> it has done in the past
<hamitron> I seem to be turning into a windows user
<hamitron> :/
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-27
<Shazer[2]> How do I install Chrome?
<Shazer[2]> I downloaded the .deb?
<Shazer[2]> But I'm not sure how to install...
<dogmatic69> just open a terminal, 'sudo apt-get install google-chrome'
<dogmatic69> might need to add the ppa first ppa:chromium-daily/stable
<dogmatic69> or just use software centre
<ali1234> what? no
<ali1234> you install chrome by going to the chrome website and downloading the deb file for it
<ali1234> it sets you up with the correct repositories and everything
<ali1234> chromium isn't the same thing as chrome
<ali1234> and google-chrome isn't in the default repositories
<ali1234> oh, once you downloaded the .deb you just double click it
<ali1234> easy.
<christel> good morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> morning
<popey> morning
<popey> AlanBell, do you still have one of my usb3 hard disks?
<popey> or did I ever get that back?
<AlanBell> popey: still have it
<popey> yay
<popey> need to grab that at some point
<AlanBell> well no disk, just enclosure and a USB stick
<popey> oh, i thought it had a disk in, my mistake
<AlanBell> at home today?
<popey> yeah
<AlanBell> ok, I am out and about, if time allows I might pop by with it
<popey> ooh that would be lovely, come in for tea!
 * popey puts some clothes on
<popey> :D
<diplo> Morning
<popey> http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/09/gogcom-to-add-linux-support.html
<popey> more for that list directhex ^ :)
<popey> http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/beta-late-than-never-3/ :)
<AlanBell> its all games games games
<diplo> It's all good AlanBell :)
<knightwise> mooornin
<knightwise> hey maxp
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<bittin^work> morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<andylockran> hey all
<bittin^work> hi
<andylockran> anyone know why file_get_contents($url) on php would have suddenly started failing (debian lenny :s) - need a way to test it
<andylockran> grumpy ;(
<andylockran> I've got a fairly broken php problem
<andylockran> http://dpaste.com/806734/
<andylockran> that works on most of my servers
<ali1234> why add \n?
<andylockran> ali1234: formatting..
<andylockran> ali1234: just so it looks prettier
<andylockran> but it's broken on a debian lenny server that is running the site where the code is used
<ali1234> oh right echo
<ali1234>  just woke up. i dunno
<andylockran> it has been working up until recently, but very unsure as to why it would have stopped working
<andylockran> according to a strace, it does the DNS lookup fine (which was my first concern) and all looks hunkey dorey
<ali1234> do you have all the right settings?
<andylockran> http://dpaste.com/806735/
<andylockran> yeah, allow_url_fopen
<andylockran> is set to On in php.ini - and in the phpinfo() for both php.ini for apache and for cli
<andylockran> mgdm: you about?
<kirrus> andylockran: have you tried wgetting said file, as the webserver user, and making sure that works?
<kirrus> sometimes http is firewalled
<kirrus> andylockran: also, check the apache error log / php error messages?
<andylockran> wget is working
<andylockran> and I can't see any errors in the logs
<andylockran> I've got E_ALL & ~E_NOTICE on
<bittin^work> haha somone is queueing outside the Apple Store here and waiting for iPhone 5 =D
<pinky-> bittin^work, where's "here?"
<bittin^work> TÃ¤by, Stockholm
<bittin^work> the only apple store in Sweden
<bittin^work> etc
<pinky-> ok ty
<bittin^work> np
<mattt> what's so funny about queueing for an iphone?  :)
<popey> life is too short to queue for a phone
<bittin^work> mattt, that person has fricking 520km to queue for a phone :p
<bittin^work> has gone 520km i mean
<mattt> popey: fully agree, doesn't stop thousands from doing it tho
<popey> sure, people are idiots
<mattt> i don't even like queueing for food
<bittin^work> if you go 520km to the only Apple store in the country to queue you dont have much to do :D
<mattt> bittin^work: yeah, i work with a guy who supposedly camped out for a phone
<mattt> i gave up on understanding people years ago
<pinky-> it's all about the Bling
<pinky-> I'm an old hippy and refuse to buy anything related
<pinky-> I've still got a Sont Ericsson from 10 years a go:)
<pinky-> Sony*
<bittin^work> i got an ZTE Skate, cheap android phone is not that hip
<pinky-> does me just fine
<davmor2> Morning all
<bittin^work> and iam out of podcasts to listen to :(
<bittin^work> heard Ubuntu Uk Podcast S05E16 and Droidnation #40 this morning
<pinky-> I'm normally housebound so I don't need maps
<mattt> bittin^work: i've not listened, but the food fight ones seem good
<mattt> bittin^work: http://foodfightshow.org/index.html
<popey> bittin^work, pcpro? tuxradar?
<popey> I like those two
<pinky-> when's the next ubuntu audio.cast due?
<bittin^work> popey, never heard any of those
<bittin^work> but my spotify got some music and its lunch now anyways, so think i will be fine
<czajkowski> AlanBell: care to start making bets on my trip to ireland next week to see if the airports strike!
<xnox> czajkowski: it will not strike, instead the runway will be flooded.
<xnox> =)
<czajkowski> xnox: nah we can deal with floods no bother, it's ireand we're used to the rain
<czajkowski> the striking and snow tends to muck up my travel
<xnox> fair enough =)
<xnox> I like how in norway they clean the whole runway from 2 feet of snow in less than 9 minutes for a plane to take off.
<mattt> xnox: here it takes 2 weeks
<mattt> except we're only talking 2 inches
<czajkowski> xnox: read this first - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/12/21/crazy-few-days/
<xnox> mattt: do they melt it with cups of tea?
<czajkowski> xnox: then http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/12/22/taim-sa-bhaile/
<czajkowski> xnox: you going to the open stack meet up later on today ?
<pinky-> yup my cellphone is 10 years old and I don't have a facebook account, maybe I'm on my own in my own World.. but I like it
<pinky-> only thing I do regular is upgrade my pc's
<mungojerry> and poo, and use irc?
<popey> hah
<pinky-> plus lots of coffee
<pinky-> I've been using irc for over 20-odd years and my spelling is no better, there's no hope for some of us
<xnox> czajkowski: well. I will pop into the office for installer meeting. But I don't think I will be staying for openstack as I have London Volleyball Association Referee meeting to attend at 7pm up north in zone 2.
<Laney> zone 2, that's practically the countryside right?!
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod morning
<gord> i hear you have to bring your passport for zone 2
<davmor2> gord: are you back?
<gord> nope
 * popey tickles gord
<popey> drat, I had a question for gord and I can't remember it now
<gord> but i walked up a mountain again today so i'm not moving from my hotel room bed for a few hours
<davmor2> gord: isn't it like insane o'clock in the night there?
<gord> nope, nearly 8
<davmor2> gord: oh well that's not so bad
<gord> had a pizza with potato on it last night, it was the best pizza ever, gonna make it myself when i get home
<mgdm> andylockran: pong?
<diplo> Afternoon guys, I remember someone in here saying they have set up an internal messenger service probably on xmpp ?
<mgdm> In the past I have used Openfire and ejabberd to do that
<mgdm> both work OPenfire is quite big and heavy and Java-y though
<mgdm> ejabberd's config is a little quirky, too
<diplo> Just looking at Openfire actually, so at least that's a good start
<mgdm> so it's swings and roundabouts :)
<MattJ> XMPP \o/
<mgdm> hehe
<mgdm> not seen that in a while, MattJ :)
<bittin^work> XMPP o/
<diplo> On a secondary point my boss has just raised, integrating on into our php erp application
<diplo> Use same backgrounds I guess
<mgdm> Openfire is good at tying into other stuff, though you might need a plugin for both apps to do it
<diplo> https://blueimp.net/ajax/
<diplo> OK, that's doable.. will delve deeper thanks
<MattJ> Only thing I would be wary of with Openfire is their security flaw history
<mgdm> the advantage of XMPP stuff is you can use loads of clients to access it
<diplo> All internal stuff anyhoo, but will also look into that
<MattJ> Keep it firewalled as much as you can if you go with it, especially the admin web interface it has
<bittin^work> i only used ejabberd but was a while ago i was playing with that stuff
<mgdm> that's good advice for any network service
<MattJ> mgdm, plenty of network services are run public-facing on the internet, I would never personally allow Openfire that privilege
<MattJ> A while back they had a bug that allowed any user to change any other user's password (including the admin's)
<mgdm> well, obviously
<bittin^work> mgdm, yea i like that with xmpp and aim
<bittin^work> that you can be logged in at alot of computers
<mgdm> but my point was that if you're running *any* service, regardless of what it is or its security history, that doesn't need to be public then don't make it
<MattJ> Sure
<bittin^work> but all my friends only uses facebook chat or skype nowdays or irc :p
<bittin^work> im kinda died :o
<MattJ> How anyone uses Skype I don't know
<pinky-> I used to have a 4 digit icq number before until it was hacked by someone from Turkey
<mungojerry> pinky-, i'll give you a 1-digit number on another service nobody else uses either :P
<mungojerry> you have have number 2 on blobby messaging service
<pinky-> haha
<bittin^work> hahahahhaa: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/388780_411092718945985_1467634616_n.jpg
<dogmatic69> lol
<pinky-> imo Skype is used a lot because of webcam conference and group chat, I suppose the same reason why Video Conference sites like BlogTV are popular nowadays, seems people like function
<brobostigon> and google+'s hangouts.
<popey> 11317622
<popey> <3 ICQ
<bittin^work> popey, added u on icq :D
<livingdaylight> I heard there were power regression issues with kernel 3.5 vs 3.4?
<pinky-> in the old days it was possible to collect all "warez" and not miss anything, so I tended to try ALL new software.. there is so much nowadays that's not possible.. plus I've had a couple of bad experiences and prefer my privicy now so I've stopped joining every new service.. I don't even have a google+ account
<livingdaylight> Would you say unity is optimized for the laptop? What DE or distro would you recommend for laptop?
<pinky-> I hit my head in the 90's and been in that era ever since:)
<pinky-> there's no help for me
 * mattt hands pinky- a 2400 bps modem
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
 * pinky- dials Demon
<pinky-> good afternoon bigcalm
<bigcalm> Are we having a nostalgia kick?
<pinky-> yeah lol
<bittin^work> telnet antidote.hopto.org with http://www.paradroid.net/cgterm/ for the modern C= 64 BBS experience
<pinky-> always!
 * bigcalm pauses with some dust force
<livingdaylight> haro?
<livingdaylight> is this ubuntu-uk channel?
<mattt> no
<mattt> #ubuntu-eu
<bittin^work> it might be
<livingdaylight> #ubuntu-nwo ?
<bigcalm> That was fun
<bigcalm> Now back to making more crud
<davmor2> bigcalm: ah come on your code isn't that bad :P
 * popey wonders why Laney felt the need to send me a Boyzone track via Spotify
<bittin^work> Boyzone i forgot about them lol =<
<xnox> there is a box of 11.10 CDs.... using one as a coaster =)
<davmor2> popey: he thought you needed camping up and romancing before he asked you to sing YMCA I can only assume he doesn't know it just takes alcohol and a karaoke machine
<davmor2> AlanBell: minisipserver just got published
 * popey wonders when/if AlanBell is coming over for tea
<diplo> Wasn't that happening a few hours ago :p
<bigcalm> davmor2: know what the status is of Vessel being published in the USC?
<popey> can't see that word without thinking of Star Trek.. "Wessel"
<bigcalm> davmor2: ah, the devs are dragging their heals http://support.humblebundle.com/customer/portal/articles/744388-vessel-for-mac-and-linux-alpha
<bigcalm> popey: heh
<bigcalm> Might give in and play it via steam on gameos
<bigcalm> (at some point)
<bigcalm> popey: where are your unclear wessels?
<mungojerry> diplo, i might have to stop using cinnamon :(
<diplo> I already have
<diplo> Was having way to many issues, my only issue with unity is the dash speed and just wish it acted more like do
<mgdm> popey: we got a telly in here yesterday with voice control, which resulted in a bit of a 'hello computer?' scene for a while
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> Back to the CRUD
<mungojerry> diplo, main issue is lockups during i/o and runing out of memory, causing bad performance. works great on my laptop thought, but my desktop PC is usually up for weeks at a time and running 50 chrome tabs etc
<mungojerry> gnome2 never complained
<mungojerry> unity, gnome3 weren't great either, but haven't used unity since january/feb
<diplo> I think i/o was my issue, also with lock ups]
<mungojerry> :(
<mungojerry> didn't report bug since i didn't know how to troubleshoot it
<bigcalm> mgdm: what's your preferred method of deployment for PHP projects?
<mgdm> bigcalm: we have our own mechanism that we're just about to move to Capistrano
<bigcalm> mgdm: ta. Boss is mumbling something about a new deployment method and Capistrano was also mentioned
<bigcalm> Not a fan of working with Ruby/Rails, but oh well
<mgdm> Capistrano is not Rails :)
<mgdm> and ruby's not that bad
<popey> damned with faint praise
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> popey: we get that with PHP _all the time_
<mgdm> bear in mind I'm from Scotland, where 'not bad' is approximately equal to 'pretty good'
<christel> RAWR
<christel> what an amazing day
 * bigcalm tickles christel
<christel> hihi
<christel> been filming at black hangar all day
<christel> amazing
<mattt> who's going to openstack meetup tonight?
<mattt> think i see a few of you reg'd
<popey> mgdm, haha, when I used to teach courses for SAP, we had a score card which had loads of questions about the course, you could score it   ---  --  -  0  +  ++  +++, which amounts to 1 through 7.. scotts people _always_ put 0 down the middle
<popey> which amounts to 4 out of 7, which is _awful_, target was 6.3/7
<mgdm> hehehe
<bigcalm> Can one eat too much Rennie?
<mgdm> if you start foaming at the mouth, that's too much
<bigcalm> Or a sign of rabies
<christel> probably
<daubers> bigcalm: If you eat 2 metric tonnes of it, I suspect that might be too much
<bigcalm> Imperial tons are okay though I guess
<daubers> bigcalm: Like the dollar, they're not worth much these days...
<davmor2> bigcalm: still waiting for the app
<bigcalm> davmor2: looks like humble indie bundle are as well
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah there were some bug that we and the bundle guys discovered on different platforms so we are all waiting for it
<bigcalm> I see
<mattt> i've used fabric for some deployment-related tasks
<mattt> may be worth looking at in conjunction w/ capistrano
<bigcalm> Rochard does look like fun. Might install it later
<davmor2> bigcalm: torchlight is nice shame about the fullscreen not working correctly but other than that it's great
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm not good at controlling lots of things at once
<daftykins> ah back in the UK after 2 months of travels away
<popey> wb
<daftykins> ta ^_^
<bigcalm> daftykins: what drew you back to this dump?
<daftykins> just the rock i have to hop on before getting back to Guernsey really ;)
<daftykins> went to a wedding of a friends over in Australia, then road-tripped the US from west coast to east coast
<daftykins> flying back from New York via Iceland on Tuesday
<MartijnVdS> cool
<bigcalm> Goodness
<MartijnVdS> had/having a good time? :)
<daftykins> yeah not bad thanks :) hot weather nearly killed me though XD
<daftykins> a while back now, we drove through Death Valley national park - 47 deg C in the shade
<MartijnVdS> ouch
<MartijnVdS> Set aircon to "north pole"
<daftykins> if only - unfortunately i got to use it rarely as my two friends enjoyed the warmth quite unreasonably
<daftykins> but ah well, all done now :)
<bigcalm> How the flipityflop did it get to be nearly 6pm?
<Laney> time passed at one second per second
<davmor2> bigcalm: did you blink
<bigcalm> davmor2: this is possible. Sometimes my blinks can take hours to complete
<davmor2> bigcalm: and is there a 6foot stone angel somewhere nearby
<bigcalm> davmor2: that would send me back in time
<bigcalm> Or just kill me
<davmor2> bigcalm: ah no it just transfers you in time that particular one sent them back :P
<davmor2> I keep hearing and seeing adverts for "killing them softly" (film) and thinking with his song (Fugee stylee)
<daftykins> tellin' mah whole life, with his words...
<davmor2> daftykins: 1 time.......
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> can't believe Red Dwarf is coming back
<AlanBell> http://www.flossuk.org/Events/Unconference2012?action=show&redirect=unconf2012 people might want to ponder this (day after Ubuntu release)
<AlanBell> err, no. 18th is the release
<christel> 11
<Azelphur> Elonex webbook with Ubuntu 12.04, display corruption, any ideas?
<AlanBell> oh my
<penguin42> Azelphur: define corruption
 * AlanBell knows about corruption on the webbook
<Azelphur> penguin42: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vrm9kjtpcpzymxb/2012-09-27%2020.24.03.jpg?m
<Azelphur> AlanBell: know how to fix it?
<AlanBell> install hardy :)
<AlanBell> just looking for the project with the open drivers for it
<AlanBell> Azelphur: what is it running at the moment?
<Azelphur> AlanBell: broken ubuntu install apparently
<Azelphur> so trying to fresh install
<penguin42> oh, not a subtle problem then
<AlanBell> it has a via C7 graphics card which is rubbish, and has rubbish open drivers
<AlanBell> VIA did briefly let some binary drivers out that let the 3d stuff work which was good for a few weeks until a new kernel broke them and they never reappeared
<AlanBell> http://www.openchrome.org/
<Azelphur> this sounds easy \o/
<AlanBell> if you plug in an external monitor from bootup you might be able to get some stuff working, enough to get the openchrome drivers installed
<AlanBell> I think we used a fixed xorg.conf to give hints about the display size as the edid lies
<AlanBell> it might be that with just an xorg.conf specifying the resolution as 1024x600 then the corruption will go away
<AlanBell> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1148184
<AlanBell> sample xorg.conf there, the important bit is Option "PanelSize" "1024x600"
<Azelphur> cool, trying it
<Azelphur> AlanBell: I think I need a default xorg.conf to get this to work
<Azelphur> not sure how to make a default one though
<AlanBell> how do you mean?
<AlanBell> by default there isn't one
<AlanBell> you just create a text file in /etc/xorg.conf with the right stuff in it
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> but I don't know what the right stuff is
<AlanBell> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1148184 comment 4
<Azelphur> on that thread he says he added that stuff to his xorg.conf, insinuating that there is more
<AlanBell> paste that in
<Azelphur> is that the whole file?
<AlanBell> no, that is sufficient
<AlanBell> err, looks like it needs Section before "Device"
<Azelphur> and identifier is spelt wrong
 * hamitron still hates the lack of xorgconfig
<Azelphur> I'm pretty sure I fixed those things :p
<hamitron> http://www.x.org/wiki/ConfigurationHelp
<Azelphur> oO, skeleton configuration files
<hamitron> do what AB said first ofc
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> he is more clever than I
<Azelphur> I did, it's not working :(
<hamitron> :/
<AlanBell> trying to find the original stuff I wrote about it
<Azelphur> I'm trying this on a livecd though, I created the xorg.conf and restarted lightdm
<Azelphur> cool :D
<AlanBell> got rid of that domain some time ago, but the data should exist somewhere
<hamitron> took me over a year to get X working on my first install of linux
<AlanBell> http://rblondon.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/elonex-webbook-screen-issue.html that one looks correct
<AlanBell> think I might have deleted all the webbookblog.com content
<AlanBell> ForcePanel might be important too
<Azelphur> cool, ty :D
<Azelphur> AlanBell: woo it works! \o/
 * Azelphur gives AlanBell 5 internets.
<AlanBell> yay
<AlanBell> so what is that running now? Quantal?
<AlanBell> actually you probably want to stop at precise with that one as there won't be 3d and it won't have the horsepower for decent llvmpipe performance
<ali1234> or just don't install unity or gnome-shell
<ali1234> and marvel at how fast everything runs
<Azelphur> AlanBell: 12.04
<Azelphur> yea, I'm tempted to say this might be a candidate for lubuntu
<Azelphur> yea, I'll drop lubuntu on it
<AlanBell> go for it
<AlanBell> good point ali1234
<penguin42> Azelphur: Or try adding MATE (i.e. Gnome2)
<Azelphur> I imagine lxde is faster than gnome2
<ali1234> not really
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> I have Lubuntu iso downloaded anyway so it's nice and easy
<AlanBell> you are not going to achieve "fast"
<Azelphur> hehe indeed
<penguin42> what's it's storage?
<AlanBell> but there are a number of things that are perfectly usable for modest requirements
<AlanBell> 80GB hdd
<AlanBell> do you have 1GB on it?
<penguin42> sata or pata?
<AlanBell> the upgrade from 512 to 1GB is worth doing
<AlanBell> data
<AlanBell> sata even
<penguin42> might be a worth a low end ssd, might make it usable
<Azelphur> hehe, it's not my netbook
<Azelphur> so someone else has to put up with the painful slowness ;)
<AlanBell> I wouldn't bother with buying stuff for it, but a rummage around the bits box might produce a ram stick
<AlanBell> it can only be upgraded to 1GB
<ali1234> also MATE is completely redundant
<AlanBell> even if you stick a 2GB stick in you will only get 1GB recognised
<ali1234> gnome-panel still runs on gtk3
<Azelphur> yea, I'm just getting it up and running, I don't have any spare sticks for it :p
<Azelphur> it'll be slow, but better than nothing
<ali1234> i wonder who is maintaining that actually
<jacobw> evening
<MartijnVdS> \o jacobw
<jacobw> hey, how's it going?
<AlanBell> why can't we have party political broadcasts like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK7QfCEEiBs&feature=player_embedded
<MartijnVdS> because you live in a sane country
<AlanBell> there is that
<MartijnVdS> And you already have panel game shows :)
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<jacobw> GE bigcalm
<popey> pip pip
<MartijnVdS> popey: trying CP/M again?
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripheral_Interchange_Program
<penguin42> hehe
<MartijnVdS> alias pip=cp
<penguin42> wasn't it also similar to dd ?
<MartijnVdS> well cp is quite similar to dd ;)
<AlanBell> on my phone I have google plus messenger or something, where is that in the web UI?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: do you have the web UI open?
<AlanBell> yes
<bigcalm> Message sent
<AlanBell> my phone pings
<AlanBell> no activity in the browser
<bigcalm> But nothing accessible via the web? Poop
<bigcalm> Maybe it's a phone only thing
<AlanBell> very odd
<daubers> AlanBell: just use empathy?
<AlanBell> huh?
<daubers> empathy does google chat
<daubers> (which G+ messenger essentially is)
<AlanBell> but how come the chat thing on the right of G+ doesn't do anything much when it happens?
<daubers> No idea :)
<daubers> becuase it smells?
<AlanBell> that just shows online people too, not sure it relates to messenger
<ali1234> because gtalk actually supports multiple instances properly
<ali1234> if you are using g+ when someone chats to you, it will do something
<ali1234> or if you start talking back to the person through the website etc
<ali1234> it doesn't make every device you have go crazy when you are having a conversation
<AlanBell> so the problem is that my phone is online too much?
<ali1234> possibly
<AlanBell> I can't transfer a conversation from one device to another I think
<ali1234> it's related to your status
<ali1234> if you are marked "away" then it won't ping that device
<ali1234> i think that's how it works
<ali1234> also if you ignore thephone and start using g+ then it will send the messages out after a couple of minutes
<AlanBell> hmm
<AlanBell> I kind of find old messages on the phone occasionally because I am not looking for them there
<AlanBell> not really wanting to use that service at all really
<ali1234> it's possibly also related to why you always pingpong online/offline 100 times and fill my indicator queue :)
<AlanBell> oh, someone else told me that
<ali1234> i've told you before :)
<AlanBell> ok, so how do I stop doing that?
<ali1234> no idea
<AlanBell> and why am I special?
<ali1234> someone else does it too
<ali1234> but i can't remember who it was
<AlanBell> I just have the android G+ app
<AlanBell> I have never intended to do anything with the messenger thing at all
<ali1234> g+ uses the same chat as gmail
<ali1234> which is also a stand alone app on android
<AlanBell> I don't even know how to go offline on the mobile client, can't see any kind of status setting thing
<AlanBell> what indicator queue do I fill up?
<ali1234> you know, notify osd?
<AlanBell> oh, from empathy notifications?
<ali1234> from pidgin notifications
<ali1234> i don't use empathy
<AlanBell> ok
<ali1234> but yeah... every time someone goes away
<popey> i use the web io
<popey> er
<popey> ui
<ali1234> it shows a message for 5 seconds
<AlanBell> what web UI?
<popey> in gmail and G+
<popey> i have both in separate tabs
<popey> so when someone pings me it generally pings both
<ali1234> 100 * 5 = nearly 10 minutes worth of notifications, because it's a queue and they all have same priority
<popey> i can choose to answer in either and it keeps both in sync which is neat
<ali1234> that also blocks all other same priority notifications, essentially a denial of service attack :)
<AlanBell> but those look like a different list of people to what I have in the mobile client
<ali1234> the list is a little bit weird but it is the same protocol
<popey> yes, its an option in G+
<penguin42> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/27/adobe_cert_revoked/  oops
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-28
<ali1234> wow, maybe that ultraparanoid guy in here the other day was actually right
<penguin42> which one?
<hamitron> is Â£580 too much to spend on scalextric?
<hamitron> errr, wrong chan
<ali1234> yes, it is too much
<hamitron> ;p
<ali1234> penguin42: i forgot his name but he claimed that the government kept installing some monitoring software on his PC using fake adobe updates, and that's why he switched to linux... but then ubuntu offered him a (legit) flash update
<penguin42> ah
<ali1234> at least legit in the sense it was correctyly signed by canonical
<hamitron> hehe, that was amusing
<penguin42> ali1234: Adobe did say that they believed it was only Windows & Mac versions that were signed (and I'm not sure what products) - but hey
<ali1234> well
<ali1234> that means *adobe* only signed windows and mac software with it. the people who stole it could have used it to sign anything
<ali1234> i forgot te name of the tracking software he claimed to have... let me check logs...
<hamitron> still don't think it is a reason to not update stuff from the official ubuntu sources
<ali1234> absolutely not
<ali1234> and by not doing so his machine was less secure
<ali1234> which i pointed out :)
<penguin42> ali1234: No, what Adobe reported was that the breakin managed to sign stuff on the machine, and that the key was held in a hardware cryptography module that hadn't been compromised, so the key itself wasn't released
<ali1234> penguin42: ah i see
<ali1234> fair enough then
<ali1234> finspy
<ali1234> can i enable "focus follows mouse" for just some specific windows?
<ali1234> specifically "all blender windows"
<ali1234> (with compiz)
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> TGIF people !
<popey> +1
<Azelphur> anyone know how to turn off touchpad scrolling in Lubuntu
<Azelphur> did it with synclient \o/
<popey> I was going to suggest gpointing-device-settings
<pinky-> morning all, I just see on news Hamilton is moving to Mercedes.. oh what a fool
<Azelphur> hehe, just needed to turn off vert scroll, it does not work well at all on this elonex webbook :P
<popey> lol, you bought one of those pieces of crap?
<popey> morning theopensourcerer
<theopensourcerer> \o/ popey
<christel> theopensourcerer, popey :)
<christel> hullu hullu
<theopensourcerer> It's FFFFRRRRIIIIDDDDAAAAYYYY :-D
<theopensourcerer> And end of the month - Invoicing day :-D :-D :-D
<theopensourcerer> Payday :-D
<theopensourcerer> Expenses day :-D
<christel> indeed (to all of the above!)
<christel> :)
<christel> and in my case "boy wonder going away to see the inlaws for the weekend" day! tomorrow i shall SLEEP
 * AlanBell hunts for receipts and tickets and such
<theopensourcerer> lol
<christel> AlanBell: i want to go film more stuff! i had so much fun yesterday
 * theopensourcerer keeps his expenses record up-to-date on OpenERP so has only a few more items to add from yesterday
<theopensourcerer> What were you filming christel?
<theopensourcerer> kewl - http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/27/a-new-google-app-gives-you-local-information-before-you-ask-for-it/
<Azelphur> Is there any way to make it so that you don't need to type your password to connect to a wifi network?
<christel> a couple of scenes for our next movie! we were filming tom price :)
<christel> the guy who played PC Andy in torchwood
<christel> he was great
<Azelphur> theopensourcerer: fun :)
<theopensourcerer> christel: Were you up at the Bourne Woods then?
<christel> i was knackered afterwards mind, but it was so much fun
<christel> we filmed out in lasham at black hangar studios
<theopensourcerer> "knackered" such a British word... Anyone would think you were a native ;-)
<christel> hehe
<theopensourcerer> "Itâs always running in the background, so it knows where you are..."
<theopensourcerer> This sounds great - $99 16 core, 13Ghz 26 gigaflops - want it. arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/99-raspberry-pi-sized-supercomputer-touted-in-kickstarter-project/
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :-D
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adapteva/parallella-a-supercomputer-for-everyone
<popey> 1m45s
<popey> Ubuntu desktop :)
<czajkowski> herrro
<pinky-> I'm at dentist later for checkup, ett-ho
<theopensourcerer> popey: That looks really cool. I think Libertus Solutions should support that project. Will discuss with AlanBell shortly.
<mattt> morning morning morning
<bigcalm> Ok, you can relax, I have returned!
<christel> oh good! ;)
 * mattt relaxes
<bigcalm> Now that's a wink to be concerned about
<daubers> Hey Miss czajkowski - What's the higlights in the CC changes?
<popey> CC changes
<popey> ?
<czajkowski> CC?
<czajkowski> do you mean the Code of Coduct ?
<bigcalm> That would be coc
<AlanBell> CoC
<bigcalm> CC, to me, is Credit Card or Creative Commons
<czajkowski> or community council
<bigcalm> Or Carbon Copy
<daubers> czajkowski: Yeah, that one :)
<daubers> The blog post I saw called it CC...... so I just went with the herd
<czajkowski> daubers: anyways to answer your question, we took the feedback we had received at UDS last in our session and put that in so removed some wording and replaced some of the word ubuntu in there to make reusable also
<czajkowski> Laney: have you see the call for more feedback based on the UDS session
<Laney> the what?
<Laney> no
<daubers> czajkowski: Ah ok, so mainly rewording of the same statements?
<mattt> daubers: plus FA-like fines for racial abuse
<mattt> it's at the bottom
<AlanBell> daubers: I think this one merges the original code of conduct with the separate leadership code of conduct so the diff is quite large
<czajkowski> Laney: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/09/27/code-of-conduct-v2-request-for-feedback/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=code-of-conduct-v2-request-for-feedback
<czajkowski> AlanBell: well no we had done that merge months ago and that was already out there
<czajkowski> so was he talking about the chance since before last uds to now ?
<Laney> oh, fridge
<czajkowski> or in general
<AlanBell> oh OK, in that case a diff should work
<Laney> czajkowski: can you edit that?
<Laney> the fridge calendar
<czajkowski> no
<daubers> I see a license has been added to the bottom too
<Laney> who can?
<czajkowski> it is in fact evil
<czajkowski> dholbach
<Laney> ta
<czajkowski> Laney: whats wrong ?
<Laney> we moved some dmb meetings
<daubers> a brief scan show nothing I object to, so I shall carry on as if nothing had happened :)
<czajkowski> Laney: ahh go to #ubuntu-news
<czajkowski> and see their wiki
<czajkowski> Laney: tells you how to do stuff
<Laney> can I just abuse dholbach directly :-)
<AlanBell> daubers: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/revision/27?remember=25
<AlanBell> I think
<czajkowski> Laney: bet sponsor him then poke him
<czajkowski> that way he'll favour being abused :p
<Laney> I donated to his marathon thing; he's my bitch now :>
<xnox> czajkowski: you are now known as "cz<tab>" on #ubuntu-devel thanks to Laney
<mattt> what happened to #ubuntu-uk meetings?
 * czajkowski smacks Laney 
<Laney> I didn't start it!
<czajkowski> Laney: xnox is telling tales on you
<bigcalm> mattt: I think work got in the way for everybody
<bigcalm> mattt: I know that's what happened to me
<xnox> czajkowski: at 12 minutes past the irclogs will update and you can check for your self ;-)
<xnox> czajkowski: maybe it's a hint you should hangout on #ubuntu-devel ......
<mattt> bigcalm: yeah, it's been a busy year for a lot of people :-/
<popey> nothing stopping someone running meetings :)
<mattt> popey: true, let us know when the next one is then
<bigcalm> Haha
<popey> point
<popey> missed
<popey> entirely
<bigcalm> popey: I don't think it was ;)
<AlanBell> yeah, we should start up meetings again
 * mattt looks at popey
<AlanBell> I think they were too frequent and after a couple of just me talking to myself I kind of didn't get round to scheduling the next one
<bigcalm> When I was able to attend, I found myself to be quite vocal :S
<czajkowski> mattt: organise one if you'd like :)
<czajkowski> then people can turn up
<AlanBell> when would be good for people?
<bigcalm> I'm surprised we didn't have one at oggcamp
<mattt> czajkowski: popey's got it under control
<czajkowski> bah
<mattt> :P
<mattt> AlanBell: personally, after 8 is best
<mattt> day of week is irrelevant
<bigcalm> I would say during office hours, but I don't think my boss would agree
<mattt> bigcalm: yeah, too many distractions at work
<AlanBell> mattt: feel free to edit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda
<AlanBell> lets have a discussion just after Quantal gets released
<mattt> AlanBell: sure, i'll need to look at previous meetings to see what the threads were
<mattt> it'd also be nice to figure out what people want from meetings
<Azelphur> hmm, trying to repartition my laptop, it has an extended partition inside of which is an "unknown" 3.6GB partition, any ideas what that might be?
<bigcalm> A recovery drive?
<Azelphur> it's a Ubuntu install
<bigcalm> I out of ideas then :)
<Azelphur> guess I'll just take the crazy approach and delete it
<popey> why not mount it and have a look?
<Azelphur> I can't, gparted can't even see what it is
<Azelphur> does Ubuntu usually need any partitions besides the ext4 to boot?
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting 19/10/2012 20:00
<Azelphur> I'm guessing not, since my PC only has the EXT4
<Azelphur> it's probably swap that went wrong, that's my guess
<bigcalm> Seems a bit large to be a swap, and in an extended partition? It would be quite wrong indeed
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> my data is all in ext4 anyway, so it can go
 * AlanBell enjoys waiting for remotely rebooted servers to respond to ping
<popey> too large to be swap?
<popey> Swap:  8267772k total
<popey> :)
<Azelphur> 3.6GB isn't large for swap?
<AlanBell> not really
<bigcalm> Not too large, just seems a bit large for swap
 * Azelphur shrugs
<czajkowski> popey: you just living on kickstarter these days finding all sorts of odd stuff :)
<popey> heh
<popey> i enjoy kickstarter, yes
<popey> and indiegogo
<popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/nexphone?a=1051579 not looking good
<bigcalm> Too many android phones already out there maybe
<mattt> i think the ubuntu wiki needs a tickle
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * czajkowski slaps Laney Laura TM
<czajkowski> really
<bigcalm> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<Laney> har de har
<czajkowski> Laney: lets see what happens when you ask for stuff in my channel mister :p
<czajkowski> cheeky fecker
 * Laney screams HUMANITY TO OTHERS and runs away
<czajkowski> very special lad
<mattt> AlanBell: changed the date, hope that's ok
<AlanBell> that will clash with everyone being in a pub in London :)
<mattt> AlanBell: bleh ... think people will attend on a friday?
<mattt> AlanBell: how about the wednesday?
<AlanBell> sure
<mattt> AlanBell: what is happening on the thurs?
<czajkowski> mattt: release party ?
<AlanBell> still trying to sort that out exactly, I think it will be going to a nominated pub
<AlanBell> nothing more organised than that really, it doesn't work for us with release parties
<mattt> czajkowski: i have no idea, hence asking :)
<mattt> had i known, i wouldn't have asked!
<mattt> AlanBell: ok, thanks
<AlanBell> might try to do something more like the other teams do later in the year, more of an installfest type thing
<AlanBell> we just can't do it on release day because the Canonical team just want to go to the pub
<Laney> 4K!
<czajkowski> AlanBell: well you're not tied to going to a pub either, just the uk loco has in the past just merged it into one event
<czajkowski> it used to be a sprint week for release but not as many come for the week now
<czajkowski> seemingly finding a pub with nice ales is a way to get them to come as well :)
<popey> nah
<czajkowski> Laney: 5K walks usually not 4K that's -1K and cheating
<popey> thats more likely to get nerds coming
<mattt> wouldn't want that
<mattt> AlanBell: perhaps the following week after launch is best then
<popey> the problem we had historically is we would like canonical people to come along, but they generally just want to go to a bar/pub and drink & eat and not give talks or do computer stuff
<AlanBell> exactly
<AlanBell> and setting up an event in competition to a pub night really isn't going to end well
<popey> exactly
<AlanBell> we could do something a week later
<popey> yes
<popey> I think that would be a good idea
<mattt> btw i was referring to meeting, not pub/in-person meetup
<AlanBell> oh, right
<mattt> i don't know enough about your ubuntu ways to dictate when in person things happen :)
<mattt> i know you guys have a tight way of doing things around here
<AlanBell> not that tight
<popey> !12.10
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.10 (Quantal Quetzal) will be the 17th release of Ubuntu, Discussion and support until final release in #ubuntu+1
<AlanBell> anyone can organise stuff
<mattt> AlanBell: true, but it needs to be done right
<mattt> otherwise it's just a waste of time
<popey> hmm.
 * popey will be in denmark the week after release
<mattt> popey: great, we can use your house then
<czajkowski> hmm thought it was the 18th
<czajkowski> release wiki and relase party say 18th
<mattt> 17th release?
<czajkowski> ah nm getting date and release number mixed up
 * mattt stares at czajkowski 
<mattt> :P
<czajkowski> please don't
<czajkowski> most odd
<mattt> ok, i'm bumping this meeting date forward, we can move it around later if it's not convenient
<mattt> sorry for all the change spam you guys are receiving
<popey> 1) 4.10, 2) 5.04, 3) 5.10, 4) 6.06, 5) 6.10, 6) 7.04, 7) 7.10,  8) 8.04, 9) 8.10, 10) 9.04, 11) 9.10, 12) 10.04, 13) 10.10, 14) 11.04, 15) 11.10, 16) 12.04, 17) 12.10  *\o/*
<mattt> pompoms!
<ali1234> so i've got a question. "Nominations to the boards and councils are at the discretion of the Community Council, however the Community Council will seek the input of the community before confirming appointments." - how exactly will the council do that? and again, who exactly are they talking about when they say "community" there?
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Restaffing
<AlanBell> they are talking about members of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers
<ali1234> AlanBell: yes, that's what i suspected
<AlanBell> and what they mean is that they will hold a vote, but reserve the right to ignore the results
<ali1234> and who decides who gets to be an ubuntu member?
<AlanBell> the membership boards
<AlanBell> !membership
<lubotu3> Ubuntu Membership means recognition of a significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community.  For more info see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<ali1234> ultimately it all comes back to the council
<ali1234> so the council (ultimately) chooses who gets to vote and still reserves the right to ignore the results :)
<AlanBell> sure
<ali1234> i just wish that everyone would stop using "community" interchangable to mean "ubuntu members" and "everyone who uses ubuntu"
<ali1234> that's really all i want. too much?
<czajkowski> yup
<Laney> look at the link I gave
<Laney> it doesn't mean ubuntu members
<ali1234> Laney: the link you gave does not mention anything about the council "consulting the community"
 * AlanBell thinks all those groups are proper subsets of ubuntumembers
<ali1234> and indeed it only uses the word community in the sense of "Community Council"
<Laney> it tells you who will be polled
<Laney> how about you read it instead of using the find feature of your browser
<ali1234> Laney: um, how about you actually answer my question instead of being obtuse. hint: the answer isn't on that page
<ali1234> i've read it several times
<Laney> nah i've got a better option
<ali1234> te page does not define the "community" (lower case C) nor does it define how the Community Council (upper case C) will consult it
<ali1234> so please, stop telling me to read a page that doesn't answer any of my questions
<ali1234> further more, every group of people who would be polled is a subset of ubuntu members
<bigcalm> I can't read "further more" without thinking it's part of I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue
<ali1234> not that "who will be polled" has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with the question i asked
<AlanBell> ali1234: so the point of ubuntumembers is to define a pollable voting group really
<ali1234> all i hear is what it doesn't mean
<AlanBell> an open vote to the reddit/slashdot community probably isn't a particularly useful way of getting the opinion of people who are interested in the success of the project
<ali1234> well quite
<ali1234> i never said it was
<AlanBell> the ubuntu community isn't everyone who uses ubuntu
<ali1234> you're doing it again
<AlanBell> it is everyone who considers themseves a stakeholder in the project
<ali1234> the ubuntu community is like scotch mist
<AlanBell> only because I typed it on two lines :)
<ali1234> to me it feels a lot like the definition is intentionally vague so that it can constantly be modified to include/exclude undesirables
<christel> ali1234: are you an undesirable? :o
<ali1234> yes
<popey> i think its kept vauge so we don't exclude people
<ali1234> popey: partly
<popey> i.e. if we explicitly said "the community is people who are active in their loco, forum members, developers etc" then that might discount someone who does great advocacy but doesn't fall into those buckets
<popey> and new groups come up all the time
<popey> e.g. AskUbuntu
<ali1234> yes
<popey> so when we "consult the community" we're frequently asking anyone/everyone, not just Ubuntu Members
<ali1234> it also means that someone who contributes constantly can be excluded for unstated reasons if they disagree with the leadership
<popey> i've never seen that happen
<ali1234> and they can't say "well, i do all the things on the CoC"
<popey> i've seen people excluded for stated reasons
<popey> but actually we don't do a very good job of kicking people out
<popey> we've had destructive people hang around and cause pain and trouble for people for a long time
<ali1234> kicking them out?
<popey> and had to go to some lengths to exclude
<ali1234> kicking them out of what though?
<ali1234> out of ubuntu members or higher level positions?
<ali1234> or just out of the community?
<popey> higher
<popey> developer
<ali1234> i'm talking about the "community" here
<popey> developer is a subset of community
<Daviey> developers aren't part of the community.
<Daviey> :)
<ali1234> is ubuntu members a subset?
<popey> I'd say Ubuntu Members are a subset of Community
<Daviey> naturally.
<Daviey> it's a crazy Venn!
 * christel tickles Daviey 
<ali1234> so, how do you kick people out of the community who are not even ubuntu members?
 * Daviey giggles like a little baby.
<christel> oh my!
<Daviey> draw a circle around them in the venn diagram
<ali1234> it's not about explicitly kicking people out... the problem is disenfranchising them - ie acting like they don't exist when it is convenient
<popey> sure
<popey> examples?
<ali1234> like when you ask the community to test the beta CD, then community means everyone and their gran
<ali1234> but when the council is going to consult the community on appointments, then community means ubuntu members
<ali1234> i don't have a problem with either of these things
<czajkowski> are you sure
<czajkowski> it sounds like you do
<ali1234> i just wish you'd stop using community to mean different things at different times
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> why does it bother you so much
<popey> i can understand taht
<czajkowski> *shurgs* often words have multiple meanings
<popey> its not clear
<popey> "we ask the community"
<popey> "Wait, which bit"
<popey> "you know, the community"
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> Who's on 3rd?
<popey> its hard to define, dunno, maybe we need "active community" and "wider community" or some other more specific terms?
<czajkowski> popey: don't forget the inactive community, the ones that have ubuntu membership that just automatically renew
<czajkowski> they're also part of a subset of a community
<bigcalm> People will still shorten terms to just 'community'
<popey> indeed, hence "or some other more specific terms" :)
<ali1234> if you really mean "ubuntu member" then what is wrong with writing "ubuntu members"
<popey> because often we dont mean that
<popey> i.e. in your beta test example
<ali1234> but if in some particular instance you do mean that
<popey> I want the whole world to test it, not just members
<ali1234> you can't have one word to global replace community, because then you have the same problem
<ali1234> just be clear and specific
<popey> no, thats not what I said
<popey> I said have multiple terms
<popey> which are more clearly defined
<ali1234> if you mean "everyone in the world" then saying "community" is fine. it's almost always better to be overly specific than to be vague
<popey> perhaps
<popey> but then you get people who whine that they're being excluded
<popey> "You didn't explicitly mention one legged black lesbians!"
<ali1234> but they're not.
<ali1234> the problem is when you say "community" to mean "everyone" and then all those people who test the beta CD think they're going to get a vote in the elections because that says community too
<popey> fair point
<czajkowski> it could also encourage them ali1234
<czajkowski> many want to get more involved and become ubuntu members
<czajkowski> just from getting involved in testing
<ali1234> yeah but so could telling them you'll give them a million dollars
<ali1234> and then not giving it to them
<czajkowski> *sigh*
<czajkowski> I have work to be doing
<popey> dunno why you're grumpy czajkowski. ali1234 has a point
<czajkowski> popey: not grunmp at all do wish you wouldnt say that just when I don't agree
<czajkowski> it's a bit dismissive
<popey> jeez
<ali1234> funny i feel the same way :/
<ali1234> anyway let's not get all negative
<AlanBell> group hug
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> Help, I'm looking at pens and inks again
<daubers> bigcalm: Look at pron instead! It's cheaper!
<bigcalm> daubers: I shall take your word for it ;)
<daubers> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19744131 <- pron of the day!
<bigcalm> At least I don't buy myself the expensive pens that I give to Hayley
<daubers> I mean, just look at those sedimentary layers!
<daubers> sedimentary conglomerates just sounds too rude really
<christel> czajkowski: i suspect a lot of people dont have the time to commit to being involved in a way which enables them to apply for membership though, even if they are passionate about the distro and all that jazz :)
<AlanBell> which is cool, and valued, they just don't get invited to vote on certain things
<christel> sure, whilst also causing confusion to some as per ali1234s examples above -- so it might not be as simple as "getting more involved" :)
<ali1234> it's not just about the confusion. the immediate assumption that anyone who asks questions must have some kind of problem with the system isn't very nice either
<ali1234> and then the assumption is that they have a problem because they don't understand, so you scream at them to read the FAQ
<ali1234> but the FAQ uses all the same unclear language
<andylockran> bonjournai!
<ali1234> so this is a self-fulfilling prophecy
<AlanBell> so, ali1234, thought about applying for membership?
 * AlanBell notes that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Restaffing has not been updated to reflect the membership board reorganisation
 * AlanBell fixes
<ali1234> AlanBell: i much prefer to be on the outside
<ali1234> it's not an accident that i haven't signed the CoC either
<ali1234> you know i had this exact same discussion in #maemo a couple of years ago, and got a similar reaction
<christel> i am glad to hear that you didnt accidentally not sign the coc! ;)
<ali1234> they have an automated system for their community council. anyone with more than x karma gets a vote
<ali1234> but the community council was always totally ignored by nokia, who loved to use "community" to mean diifferent things all the time
<ali1234> they almost never meant it in the sense of "everyone who bought an n900" and usually they were talking about commercial app developers (so about 3 people, lol)
<christel> i have contemplated the membership route a few times but i simply don't have enough spare time in my life to commit to making sufficient contributions to pass !
<mgdm> I was going to once upon a time, but then I got involved in other things
<christel> i reckon i might have more spare time when the boy wonder goes to uni
<christel> and/or when i retire
<christel> (i can dream, right?) :)
<bigcalm> I'm not sure I'll retire. Just die in a gutter one day will do me
<SuperMatt> does anyone know if I can be logged in as the same user twice, once in unity and once in gnome shell?
<AlanBell> that is probably a bad idea SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> yeah?
<SuperMatt> curses
<AlanBell> I wouldn't think logging in twice to Unity with the same home directory would be a good idea either
<bigcalm> I have a GIT problem. I've been working for so long on a branch, that I need it to fully replace the master without merging stuff. Is that possible?
<ali1234> bigcalm: "master" is just a branch like any other. you can delete it, and rename your current branch master
<ali1234> that might screw over anyone who is tracking master though
<ali1234> otoh that might not matter
<bigcalm> Everyone else has been working off of the branch
<ali1234> there's no real reason to rename it
<ali1234> just carry on using that branch
 * daubers fires up abcde
<ali1234> but if you want to rename it and you can get everyone to cooperate if anything goes wrong, then just do it
<ali1234> git branch -d master; git checkout -b master
<bigcalm> My boss wants our work moved to master
<ali1234> yeah...........
<ali1234> which master though?
<ali1234> sounds like what he actually wants is a "blessed" repository
<ali1234> this is probably what you should do... make a new repo with a new "master" and then push the newest code to it, and call it the blessed repo
<bigcalm> Yeah, seems the neatest way
<bigcalm> Irritatingly, it'll mean me moving a lot of stuff around in gitlab
<ali1234> it shouldn't do
<ali1234> you shouldn't have to move anything at all
<ali1234> make a new repository then git push mybranch remote/master
<ali1234> presto, mybranch is now in a branch called master on the remote
<ali1234> it's still in a branch called mybranch in your loca repo, but nobody needs to ever see that
<bigcalm> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2862590/how-to-replace-master-branch-in-git-entirely-from-another-branch
<bigcalm> Exactly what I needed
<ali1234> yeah that's for if you have people tracking your repo
<ali1234> and you want them to get the changes automatically
<bigcalm> I do
<ali1234> and that's why you got this problem in the first place
<ali1234> you shouldn't let people clone your work repo. then you can make whatever branches you want
<ali1234> and people won't be able to work on them
<ali1234> insisting that "all work goes into master" under a model like this is the same as saying "do not use branches"
<ali1234> instead you should be pushing changes from your local branch onto the blessed/master. then nobody can see the name of your local branches
<bigcalm> It's all in house. Some devs are active, some aren't. I wanted a method that would just sort it out for everybody. I will have to tell everybody to switch back to the master now
<ali1234> again, which master?
<ali1234> if everyone has a branch called master, which one is really the real master?
<bigcalm> The one on the remote server
<ali1234> :/
<ali1234> a branch really is nothing more than a LOCAL bookmark somewhere into the commits
<bigcalm> We've moved from SVN to GIT and it's quite possible that we haven't yet worked out how to do things properly :)
<ali1234> well the big difference is everyone has a full repo
<ali1234> everyone can make their own branches and there's no requirement for anyone else to pay attention
<ali1234> everyone can have a completely different master on their machine
<ali1234> master is a pretty terrible name for it really. it should be called default
<ali1234> or something even more generic
<bigcalm> Waited 1.5 hours for a meeting that never happened. LUNCH!
<popey> bug 1052452
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 1052452 could not be found
<popey> stupid bot
<pinky-> 2:45 coffee break, 3 sugars please.
<pinky-> I read a review for the BSC in Southampton Street, London WC2 and it said, "Great place to learn IT and networking, but crappy printers."
<czajkowski> pinky-: would be nice if the bot didnt show private bugs alright :/
<pinky-> maybe crappy printers to stop peeps stealing them?
<AlanBell> would be nice if launchpad returned a 403 so the bot could say that the bug is restricted
<popey> anyone fancy dogfooding a compiz pre-release for 12.10 before monday?
<pinky-> yeah 403 is better then 404
<czajkowski> AlanBell: there is a whoe thread on this on -dev
<SuperMatt> popey: dogfooding?
<AlanBell> popey: go on then, I will taste the doggy treats
<ali1234> popey: what do i have to do?
<ali1234> update to 12.10 presumably
<ali1234> will it work... on nvidia?
<SuperMatt> I'm happy to test compiz too, considering I'm running dual monitor and super+w has been running slow for me for ages
<AlanBell> ooh, you can read window titles now when zoomed out
<ali1234> zoomed out?
<AlanBell> yeah, if you click the launcher icon a few times it wooshes out all the windows for that application type so they are all miles away in the distance, you can now hover over them to reveal what they are
<mungojerry> good to see unity is getting updates on 12.04 too
<popey> sorry, on phone.. brb
<popey> Ok, so for this hobby you will need 1) a machine running Ubuntu 12.10 and Unity. 2) the ppa:sil2100/prerelease  ppa. 3) Weak lemon drink.
<popey> drink your weak lemon drink now!
<pinky-> and squint with one eye
<popey> ali1234, SuperMatt AlanBell ^^
<SuperMatt> popey: on it like a tramp on hot chips
<AlanBell> oh you didn't tell me it was aquarius stuff when I signed up to this plan!
<aquarius> ahem. not me
<aquarius> sil2100 is someone else :)
<AlanBell> oh
<AlanBell> I will install it then :)
 * aquarius is sil on launchpad. No extra numbers for me :)
<AlanBell> the original!
<gord> i prefer later models
<gord> has extra ports and higher definition
<SuperMatt> popey: will I need to restart or can compiz --replace do the trick?
<popey> i would logout/in
<SuperMatt> figured as much
<popey> if you find any bugs, ping me
 * SuperMatt waits patiently for a copy operation to complete
<SuperMatt> will do, pikachu
<SuperMatt> what's changed exactly?
<popey> bug fixes mostly
<popey> but we want to make sure there's no regressions
<popey> SuperMatt, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001985.html the "compiz" section there
<ali1234> popey: is it going to work on nvidia? (not nouveau which doesn't work at all)
<popey> should do
<ali1234> is testing it with unity a requirement?
<SuperMatt> well now
<ali1234> i'm sure i can find lots of bugs with gnome classic (assuming it still exists)
<SuperMatt> it's working fine for me, don't see anything different to how it was. I can only assume it's fixed bugs I haven't come across :P
<ali1234> you never had the white windows bug?
<ali1234> (not fixed btw, pushed back to 0.9.9)
<SuperMatt> but it's still *ludicrously* slow when I have lots of windows and press super+w
<SuperMatt> I've never seen white windows, no
<mungojerry> saw a viewsonic 22 inch touchscreen running android today, Â£349
<bigcalm> 22" would be good for the bedroom
<bigcalm> Which now sound terrible
<christel> :o
<mattt> :)
<mungojerry> was a bit sluggish but nice price
<mungojerry> running 4.0, so prob bit better with 4.1
<SuperMatt> popey: I was wrong about my sluggishness not going, it has infact gone completely!
<popey> \o/
<SuperMatt> my compiz didn't actually update :P
<popey> haha
<SuperMatt> so I forced it and it's working great now
<popey> win. thanks, thats good to hear
<SuperMatt> :)
<SuperMatt> I take it this is going to land before 12.10's release date?
<popey> yes, early next week
<popey> and unity too next week
<SuperMatt> awesome
<SuperMatt> ooh, what's coming?
<popey> bug fixes :)
<SuperMatt> epic
<popey> i really appreciate the testing
<SuperMatt> no probs
<SuperMatt> that little bug was driving me up the wall
<pinky-> new The Hobbit poster.. freaky http://i.imgur.com/jy0dw.jpg
<SuperMatt> problem with that hobbit poster... I see no hobbit
<pinky-> yeah I guess, no BIG hairy feet
<bigcalm> Dave2: have you been posing for posters again?
<bigcalm> I blame christel for that comment
<pinky-> hehe the idlers in this channel did come to mind and that's what made me post:)
<christel> hmm?
<bigcalm> Never mind :)
<bigcalm> What hell? A gritter truck just went of the road
<SuperMatt> *off*?
<daubers> bigcalm: Thats not for ice, giant slugs have invaded. Gritter trucks are out best defence!
<popey> that poster doesn't conform to the "there are only 13 types of movie poster" rule. http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/64047251.html
<SuperMatt> hurr
<bigcalm> daubers: heh
<pinky-> beards are back in fashion, we can all go outside now. I'm getting better every day.
<Dave2> bigcalm, :(
<pinky-> walk for miles and never see a smile
 * pinky- wanders off and idles
<bigcalm> Dave2: I said I wasn't at fault for the comment ;)
<bigcalm> christel is a bad influence
<christel> but i've never spoken with pinky- so i dont get how it is my fault :(
<bigcalm> Eh? I was talking about me referring to Dave2 as a hobbit
<christel> i see, now i am even more lost -- i missed you referring to him as a hobbit!
<bigcalm> christel: it was indirect
<bigcalm> <pinky-> new The Hobbit poster.. freaky http://i.imgur.com/jy0dw.jpg
<bigcalm> <bigcalm> Dave2: have you been posing for posters again?
<pinky-> it's based upon the fact that everybody is too serious in here and now we have drama:/ sorry
<bigcalm> More confusion I think :)
<christel> bigcalm: you cant make indirect comments, they are way too subtle for my simple mind ;)
<christel> pinky-: the internet is for srs drama! ;)
<daubers> christel: Are you saying that the internet is HBO?
<christel> why yes! :P
<pinky-> I'm just gonna keep my trap shut
<pinky-> :)
<pinky-> and try to stay on-topic at all times
<christel> good
 * christel nods
<pinky-> yes I know it's best
<christel> yes, fewer people get hurt that way i guess
 * christel nods
<pinky-> srs drama is srs business
<popey> http://www.dramabutton.com/
<gebbione> what software can i use to monitor my adsl connectivity?
<bigcalm> Short, sweet and to the point
<bigcalm> gebbione: but you're on a cable connection
<gebbione> just remove adsl from my sentence
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> I was nit picking
<bigcalm> Back to work I go
<popey> gebbione, what do you want to monitor?
<bigcalm> Grrrrrrrrrr. I missed the reduced price phpstorm because I was waiting on my boss to get back to me. Grumble, double grumble
<gebbione> just create a project on github and get it freee
<bigcalm> I use it for work, I don't believe in ripping people off if I can avoid it
<pinky-> swings and roundabouts http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US6368227 and http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US663948
<bigcalm> I guess the swing as we know it had to be invented at some point
<bigcalm> The roundabout is less surprising
<christel> bigcalm enjoys a spot of swinging.
<bigcalm> o.O
<pinky-> yeah there's a lot of roundabout patents and I was looking for a better one for future ref
 * bigcalm tickles christel
<christel> MEEP
<MartijnVdS> MEEP MEEP?
<christel> WHY HELLO THAR van der S!
<MartijnVdS> HI Dahlskjaer!
<bigcalm> Hi MartijnVdS
<christel> how art thou my fine dutchman? :)
<bigcalm> Wah, almost 6pm again. That's not fair!
<MartijnVdS> christel: hungry!
<christel> aww
<MartijnVdS> but food is in the oven, so only ~15 more minutes!
<christel> nom! what are you having?
<MartijnVdS> christel: I'll post a pic when it's done :)
<christel> awesome! i love food porn :D
<brobostigon> :)
<pinky-> it's all been done before
<MartijnVdS> whoa.. is it dec-21 yet?
<MartijnVdS> http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2012-September/131741.html
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: what happens on 21st December?
<pinky-> end of Mayan calander
<pinky-> Maya/Mayan
<bigcalm> Oh, that thing
<pinky-> 10:30pm 21st Dec.
<Darael> No, it isn't.  Not only does the Long Count not actually end for a few hundred years yet, there were references in their prophecies to dates beyond the end of the long count.
<bigcalm> I think the end of the world will happen in 2038
<Darael> bigcalm: I like to think we'll be using 64-bit time by then.
<christel> bigcalm: too early! i'll still be alive and kicking
<bigcalm> We'll be 59. Scary thought
<pinky-> again?
<pinky-> 59 again
<bigcalm> No, it'll be the 1st time I will be 59
<pinky-> I wish I was 21 again.. I'd do it all different
<MartijnVdS> I'll be 57 when 32-bit time_t runs out
<MartijnVdS> It's just like the Y2K problem: lots of moneys to be made :)
<pinky-> I wonder if SuperEngineer can send me back?
<Darael> bigcalm: I suppose one could argue that /a/ world will end.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: "In a world.."
<bigcalm> Hayley be home. Woop!
 * bigcalm skips off to spend time with his lovely lady
<Darael> MartijnVdS: Well, I was going for the similarity between end-of-an-era and end-of-the-world.  But yes.
<christel> pinky-: i'm sure i'd do it all the same myself!
<pinky-> christel, wouldn't you not try to do it all better?
<christel> i think i'd try to learn how to need less sleep to fit in doing more stuff in the same amount of time perhaps
<MartijnVdS> christel: one of those funky sleep cycles?
<MartijnVdS> christel: 15 minutes every 2 hours or something
<christel> ooh that'd work
<christel> maybe
<MartijnVdS> polyphasic sleep it's called
<MartijnVdS> but apparently it's annoying that other people seem to never be awake
<ali1234> when i wake up i'm grumpy for 4 hours
<MartijnVdS> christel: or http://xkcd.com/320/
<ali1234> so that would probably be a bad idea for me
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: only 4 hours?! :P
<ali1234> until lunch time basically
<ali1234> the only way to avoid this is a full english
<pinky-> well get one quick as there is going to be a bacon shortage soon
<popey> you need http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ostrich-pillow/ostrich-pillow !
<pinky-> lol I saw that last week on startup
<pinky-> and thought "yes!"
<MartijnVdS> christel: see G+ :)
 * popey backed it :)
<christel> ooh looks tasy
<christel> tasty
<MartijnVdS> it is :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.comediva.com/klingon-style
<ali1234> that better not be what i think it is
<pinky-> ostrich-pillow: Where have you been all my life? You are my new best friend!
 * penguin42 has this odd vision of a monday morning meeting where everyone turns up with one
<christel> haha
<brobostigon> http://www.favientertainment.com/v/vspfiles/SmartStick_custom/index.html interesting idea.
<ali1234> the price is right but as always i want to see a BSP at the very least before i'd buy it :)
<mattt> evening all
<mattt> thought i was going to fall asleep on the commute home
<mattt> and since i drive, not a great thing
<brobostigon> ali1234: bsp ?
<ali1234> board support package
<ali1234> basically a firmware development kit
<brobostigon> ah.
<brobostigon> ali1234: it is android 4.1, why not just get the most recent android sdk ?
<ali1234> because AOSP doesn't include drivers
<ali1234> except open source ones
<ali1234> which probably isn't enough
<brobostigon> ok, fair point.
<ali1234> BSP is usually just a kernel and some binary modules
<ali1234> it's what you need to port android, or something else, to a board
<brobostigon> ah.
<daftykins> interesting idea, you could almost see someone basing that on a raspberry pi and making some moneys
<ali1234> that device (or a similar one by omeone else) has been in development as long as the pi
<ali1234> the one that can do video over USB
<daftykins> have you seen that the highest end Samsung TVs now have upgrade modules with new chips so you can boost their lifespan a bit?
<pinky-> I thought this was very interesting http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/28/insert-coin-the-parallella-project/
<pinky-> whoops just realised I had my page scrolled up and reading old text
<TheHustle> hello
<popey> evening all
<brobostigon> evening popey
<mattt> howzit popey
<AlanBell> anyone know if you have to actually do anything to say you are an equal opportunities employer?
<zleap> hgmm,  well on school forms in torbay they have equal opportunity monitoring forms
<zleap> which I don't trust with a barge pole, if you don't know may age,  race,  sexual orientation you can't use that information against me
<christel> http://www.growingbusiness.co.uk/be-an-equal-opportunities-employer.html
<AlanBell> yeah, read that earlier, didn't quite answer the question, but I think you can just say you are one if you want to be one
<AlanBell> not like investors in people where there is a specific assessment
<zleap> not sure how some of this applies to schools
<zleap> as in if you suffer abuse from the students, and the staff fail to deal with it effectivley  can people sue the school (or at least the headteacher) for damages
<AlanBell> a lot of job adverts have "Foocorp is an equal opportunities employer" at the bottom of the page
<AlanBell> I think it is almost entirely meaningless
<zleap> it is
<zleap> hence so few men work in schools
<zleap> in fact one or two schools round here have hardly any men working in the school
<popey> i dont think "hence" is the word you want there
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i still think they discriminate
<popey> wat
<AlanBell> yeah, slightly more complicated situation
<AlanBell> no, don't think they do really
<popey> the reason there is less male teachers is basically pay
<AlanBell> it is really hard to fix any huge bias once you have a huge bias
<popey> you're either underpaid or you're a manager
<AlanBell> but that isn't my point at all
<zleap> maybe
<popey> usually teachers are not the breadwinner in the house
<popey> *main
<popey> anyway
<AlanBell> just wanted to know if I can use those words without jumping through hoops
<Daviey> I am not convinced it's simply that.  I don't think teaching tends to interest as many men.
 * AlanBell isn't running a school fortunately
<zleap> what about working in schools generally
<popey> there's that as well
<penguin42> AlanBell: Agreed; how many female computer programmers do you know as a % of those you know?
<zleap> given the evidence that men can make a real difference ( esp to kids where there is no father at home)  you would think schools would want to employ men if they appy for jobs
<AlanBell> penguin42: quite a high percentage personally :) but that isn't representative
<popey> zleap, you're making out like they dont want to
<zleap> there isn't a stigma attached to women working as programmers
<AlanBell> orly
<penguin42> AlanBell: Really? Unusual, I think it's probably well under 10% here
<AlanBell> yeah, but like I say, the set of "people AlanBell knows who know about computers" is a bit distorted
<AlanBell> anyhow, I think I can just say we are an equal opportunities employer
<zleap> most of the people i know who I feel are in anyway compenant are either here or on user grouos
<AlanBell> anyone called Alan is welcome to apply
<popey> \o/
<zleap> lol
<zleap> in computers that is
<zleap> the onky other alan i know is Alan donahue
 * christel applies
<christel> (what am i applying for?)
<AlanBell> a name change to "Alan"
<christel> aah!
<christel> i dunno if alan would suit me
<christel> what with being all short and stuff
<christel> it strikes me as the sort of name a tall person would have
<AlanBell> you are tall!
<christel> short :(
<christel> you only think i'm tall because i always bring Daviey
<christel> err Dave2(
<christel> which i do to appear taller
 * christel nods
<zleap> Daviey, long time no chat
<Daviey> zleap: hey o/
<zleap> and hi tombrough
<Daviey> AlanBell: Hey.. Regarding the banner and tablecloth.. You asked me to take it to the office ages ago!
<Daviey> (so i did)
<Daviey> and you didn't collect it
<AlanBell> awesome \o/
 * AlanBell will collect it soon
<Daviey> Cezz has it ready.. popey might be able to bring it to you faster, maybe?
<Daviey> :)
<AlanBell> no tearing hurry, and I want someone to invite me to the new office anyhow
<Daviey> AlanBell: there was an open invite last night...
<popey> you not been in?
<AlanBell> nope
<Daviey> AlanBell: why'da not come last night?
<mattt> Daviey: did you give a talk at the first openstack meetup?
<Daviey> mattt: i did
<AlanBell> don't use openstack
<mattt> AlanBell: why4?
<Daviey> haters gotta hate.
<mattt> Daviey: there last night?
<Daviey> mattt: yes
<mattt> Daviey: was good, think having everything in the 1 room is better tho
<AlanBell> we have 4 servers running KVM with a bunch of VMs on each
<Daviey> mattt: Entirely agree.. some feedback suggested it, so w gave it a try
<AlanBell> don't really know what openstack would give us, apart from requiring 5 machines
<mattt> AlanBell: an API, for starters?  :)
<Daviey> AlanBell: This time next year, your requirements will be 10000's of physical machines
<AlanBell> for what?
<Daviey> AlanBell: think growth!
<mattt> yeah, you can't world dominate if you have to manually spin up instances :P
<AlanBell> really, creating a VM on KVM and installing Ubuntu on it doesn't take long
<mattt> not the point
<AlanBell> it is maybe 10 minutes out of a 2 week project
<mattt> AlanBell: but yeah, if you're not thinking of growing much, then considering openstack may be overkill
<AlanBell> we are thinking of growing, sure
<AlanBell> but we are a services business, not a hosting business
<AlanBell> we provide hosting for our consultancy clients
<mattt> why not do what heroku etc. do?
<mattt> and just use rackspace/ec2 etc.
<AlanBell> we could do, but that is a massively expensive way of getting stuff that is always on
<mattt> think you said you use hetzner?
<mattt> they are very cheap
<AlanBell> EC2 makes sense if you are bursting and your baseload number of machines is quite a lots less than your peak load
<AlanBell> yeah, they are cheap, and fast and high bandwidth and we rent the hardware so they maintain that
<mattt> yeah, i have a small machine with them, it's been rock solid
<penguin42> AlanBell: Have you tried doing things like livemigrating between them when you need to service one?
<mattt> live migrate?  :)
<AlanBell> did try that once, didn't work
<AlanBell> you need everything on the same subnet and addresses assigned by dhcp for that to work really
<penguin42> AlanBell: Yeh, I think things like openstack and the like are the type of setups that are supposed to be able to manage stuff like that
<penguin42> mattt: Move a running vm between hosts without down time
<AlanBell> yeah, which would mean we have to have all our boxes on the same subnet to run openstack across them
<mattt> i know xenserver has some feature to live migrate w/out shared storage
<mattt> not fully sure how it works tho
<penguin42> AlanBell: I've not tried it, but I think what people do is tend to have a separate subnet/vlan for managementy stuff
<mattt> yeah
<penguin42> mattt: Yeh it does, it copies blocks over as it goes
<AlanBell> so does KVM, it does work, but makes assumptions about networking
<mattt> do you get a private IP on hetzner?
<mattt> i don't recall my box having one
<AlanBell> no, public IPs
<mattt> could you use some sort of dummy internal network?
<mattt> (openvpn or whatever)
<AlanBell> and we get additional blocks of 8 or 16 assigned to the host, and use bridged networking to pass those into the guests
<AlanBell> http://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/KVM/en
<Daviey> kvm can do shared or non-shared storage migration
<AlanBell> it is a bit hairy but it works
<Daviey> (openstack supports both models)
<mattt> btw, i created #openstack-uk earlier today
<mattt> if any of you lot want to lurk
<AlanBell> the other thing is I have no idea how we would go from our current setup to openstack
<AlanBell> don't really want to buy 5 new servers and migrate stuff across to it and get rid of the other ones
<mattt> AlanBell: not entirely sure either
<mattt> it'd be possible
<mattt> with some hacking
<AlanBell> last time I looked at the openstack architecture it needed a minimum of 6 hosts to get off the ground with just one of them hosting machines
<AlanBell> I *think* they have sanitised that a bit now
<penguin42> AlanBell: Shove the other 5 in a Vm :-)
<mattt> penguin42: that will work fine
<mattt> will be running a lot of stuff tho :P
<penguin42> (nested kvm is quite fun incidentally - just pretty much works on Ubuntu)
<czajkowski> evening
<AlanBell> yeah, I should probably look at the documentation again, it failed the laugh test last time I read it though
<mattt> penguin42: yeah, i've not really played w/ openstack on my own in a while ... going to set it up on some public cloud servers using qemu or lxc
<mattt> czajkowski: hello
<AlanBell> http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-compute/install/apt/content/compute-system-requirements.html#d6e209 ok, so just one wasted 12GB ram computer
<mattt> that's recommended
<penguin42> proxmox is the otherone I've heard people like
<mattt> you can probably bung it into a 1 GB instance :P
<mattt> AlanBell: let me get this dummy install going on as minimal a setup as possible
<penguin42> yeh that's unfortunate not to say whether it needs a 12GB RAM machine for 5 hosts or 50
<mattt> AlanBell: i'll be happy to give you a login to test once it's done
<AlanBell> cool, thanks mattt
<mattt> np
<mattt> i've got keystone and glance up and running, need to finish off the nova component
<AlanBell> I am OK with one wasted computer, that is back to Eucalyptus requirements
<AlanBell> which put me off at the time when we wanted one host
<Daviey> Openstack can work from one machine.
<mattt> Daviey: i'd say like 2 GB should be able to run everything right?
<mattt> i mean, you're not going to be competing with amazon
<Daviey> Infact, i regularly deploy all of openstack, within an openstack cloud, for development
<mattt> but it should work
<AlanBell> Daviey: OK, that is really interesting
<Daviey> (Since Precise, nested kvm has made it more interesting)
<zleap> Daviey, are you free to attnend any lug meets ?
<Daviey> zleap: I don't live in Devon anymore :(
<Daviey> nested kvm, is kvm within kvm.
<penguin42> Daviey: Just one turtle higher in the stack
<Daviey> O_o
<mattt> tools to import existing VMs into nova would be nice
<mattt> do they exist?
<zleap> Daviey, ok
<Daviey> mattt: that could be done.. but i'd hope that most workloads could be easily migrated.
<jpds> Daviey: I think penguin42 means that you need to go deeper.
<Daviey> oh
<jpds> mattt: re: 2GB> Depends on what kind of images you want to run.
<mattt> jpds: i'm talking 2 GB dedicated to an instance running nova-compute, sched, network, etc.
<penguin42> jpds: There's likely to be a real computer at the bottom of the stack somehwere
<mattt> 2 GB is going to be tight w/ mysql and rabbitmq, but it'd work
<Daviey> It will run just fine!  Just don't expact more than a handful of instances
<jpds> mattt: I meant images == instances.
<jpds> mattt: If you want to run Ubuntu, good luck with more than a few on 2GB.
<jpds> mattt: On the other hand, a handful of https://launchpad.net/cirros images would work fine.
<mattt> jpds: nice, not heard of cirros
<mattt> what's under the hood?
<Daviey> err, cirros only exists as a minimal development image.. Not for production usage
<Daviey> heck, it has root with a public known password.
<Daviey> (It is made by someone on my team)
<jpds> Daviey: For testing, it's good.
<mattt> but what's it based on?
<jpds> mattt: Ubuntu.
<mattt> ah
<mattt> still handy
<AlanBell> what is the openstack host upgrade story?
<AlanBell> is that scary?
<mattt> AlanBell: not sure myself
<mattt> AlanBell: i think it may have been a bit rough at first
<mattt> but i'm sure things have stabilized a lot
<AlanBell> non-scary upgrades is *very* important feature
<AlanBell> live migration might help with that
<mattt> oh
<mattt> sorry
<AlanBell> if you can shuffle all the machines off a host, upgrade it, shuffle them back that would be cool
<mattt> you're talking about your host machines?
<mattt> or upgrading your nova-* services (and underlying tables etc.)
<AlanBell> or do you need to run all the hosts at the same level?
<mattt> well, i'd run as little on my host machines as possible
<mattt> and only reboot for critical security issues
<mattt> even then, you can save instances to disk, reboot, start them back up again
<mattt> and disruption to clients should be relatively minimal
<mattt> heh, reminds me of my hetzner box
<AlanBell> yeah, we are running 10.04 on most of our hosts, and nothing runs on the host. I need to do a 12.04 upgrade but that is a bit scary
<mattt> they emailed to say they had to move my server to another datacentre
<mattt> a few weeks go by, and i remember my box should have been moved
<mattt> i check my instance which i irc from etc ... uptime > 300 days
<mattt> so figured they cancelled the maintenance
<mattt> hopped onto my dom0 a few days later, realized it HAD been shut down
<mattt> but my instances were saved when they powered down the host and restored when it booted back up, so it looked like my instances never went down :)
<AlanBell> cool
<AlanBell> not sure I would just suspend the VMs and do a 12.04 upgrade
<AlanBell> though maybe I could
<AlanBell> leave them running, do the upgrade, suspend, reboot, turn on again?
<mattt> yeah, that is kinda scary :)
<AlanBell> maybe I will try that on my laptop or something
<mattt> yeah
<mattt> was just about to say that
<mattt> i'd test it first
<mattt> before you corrupt instances or something
<mattt> but
<mattt> i guess the worst thing that'd happen is you can't resume from the memory dump?
<mattt> at which point, you just boot them up normally
<AlanBell> yeah, so they all take a hard shutdown (no big deal)
<mattt> let me know how it goes :)
<AlanBell> the worst that could happen is that something in the upgrade messes up the networking configuration and I have to spend some time putting it back together
<AlanBell> or really bad would be the host gets stuck at a grub prompt somehow :)
<mattt> yeah, if you test it on a dummy box at home hopefully you can catch the glaring issues that will result from the upgrade
<AlanBell> if openstack made stuff like that entirely routine that would be good
<mattt> AlanBell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuServer#From_10.04_to_12.04
<mattt> actually, skip down to 'Known Issues'
<AlanBell> yeah, read that and it works in general
<mattt> AlanBell: as far as i understand it, openstack doesn't address any of these issues
<AlanBell> 10.04 to 12.04 works fine and I have upgraded a number of the guests that way
<AlanBell> it is just a little more tense to do it to the host
<mattt> nah, it talks about kvm configurations not working after the upgrade
<mattt> "If you are running a KVM host with libvirt and are upgrading from Ubuntu 10.04 LTS to 12.04 LTS you may find that some existing virtual machines are no longer recognized (virsh list --all). A change to each guest's XML file may be needed, related to how console and serial devices are now configured. (931350)"
<AlanBell> ooh, yeah, that would be a bit of a worry!
<mattt> the way you handle host upgrades will differ depending on what OS you run, whether you're using xen/kvm, etc.
<mattt> so i'm not sure openstack will solve these problems, but hopefully some best practices will emerge
<AlanBell> thanks for pointing that one out, simple fix but that would be a real worry to see!
<mattt> hahahahaha
<mattt> yeah, that would give you a fright :)
<popey> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<bigcalm> !pong
<lubotu3> pong is an old atari game. It's fun!
<MarbleMad_> MarbleMad
<tombrough> ?
<tombrough> ?
<dogmatic69> google has far to much money and/or spare time
<sql-engine> hello
<pinky-> ostrich-pillow: I will love you longtime!
<pinky-> good night all
<brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
<sql-engine> hello from sql-engine I am a bot
<sql-engine> hello from sql-engine I am a bot
<sql-engine> hello from sql-engine I am a bot
<penguin42> AlanBell: Do you know anything about driving the accessibility interfaces on KDE apps? I've just found Konsole has an interface for adding a selection via it and wonderd what can drive it
<sql-engine> hello from sql-engine I am a bot
<sql-engine> goodbye from sql-engine bot
<penguin42> whoever runs that bot, can you please try it in a private channel
<mattt> heh
<mattt> jeez
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-29
<ali1234> hahaha, the system 76 laptop... it's a zoostorm
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha, fun
<ali1234> the system 76 does have a better graphics card actually
<ali1234> they're not identical spec, but they are clearly built by the same company
<Azelphur> ali1234: doesn't surprise me, I imagine system 76 buys em naked OS and then sets up Ubuntu on em
<ali1234> well system 76 are configurable at least slightly
<ali1234> no doubt whoever builds these can do whatever setup you want and stick your logo on them
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/u/0/117474986382867317779/posts/1zYXy4jC2T8
<Azelphur> I can see a few design differences
<Azelphur> but they are admittedly very similar and the system76 is most likely a modified zoostorm
<Azelphur> :)
<AlanBell> they are both clevo
<AlanBell> first laptop I paid for myself was a clevo - cost me Â£2,000 or so
<AlanBell> 1600x1200 screen, three internal hard drives, it rocked
<AlanBell> but it was a bit heavy
<Darael> Hmm, talking of clevo, I need to find someone who can repair a DC jack.  Really don't feel like shelling out Â£350 for a new mobo.  Or a new machine, for that matter.
<christel> good morning
<dwatkins> hiya
<jacobw> morning
<popey> pip pip
<Guest_> hi room
<Guest_> is this the only chat room for linux
<jacobw> there's many
<jacobw> this is the UK channel for Ubuntu
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<jacobw> morning brobostigon
<jacobw> Guest_: see #ubuntu also
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
<Guest_> this seems more technical than i was looking for
<Guest_> i was thinking something like paltalk?
<jacobw> this is IRC, it's like the social network for nerds :)
<dwatkins> I'm not sure IRC even has the option for enabling video.
<jacobw> hahaha
 * jacobw is happy with text based communication modes
<dwatkins> As am I, jacobw. I just looked up paltalk and I see it's a client with the option for video and group chat.
<christel> someone asked why freenode doesnt do "video chat" yesterday
<christel> i pondered the concept for a minute and got scared senseless by the prospect of potentially watching 80K+ geeks, i decided i much prefer text!
<jacobw> lol
<christel> otoh it could be quite amusing to be a fly on the wall when some of the trollier of people get their kicks, i always envision them a bit like overexcited chimpansees
<jacobw> i don't wanna see that
<AlanBell> gibbons
<Myrtti> I need to decide do I want to upgrade my sisters 10.04 or reinstall with 12.04 Xubuntu
<popey> \o/ Myrtti
<popey> is she using xfce on 10.04 or Guh-nome?
<Myrtti> Gnome, with one panel on the bottom with everything in one menu set up to be as close to Win95/98/2000 as possible
<popey> you could probably get the same effect with gnome fallback?
<popey> gnome-session-fallback - GNOME Session Manager - GNOME fallback session
<elfy> mine's set up more or less like that Myrtti with xubuntu
<AlanBell> if you want to try unity then go for quantal
<Myrtti> I'm not putting anything else than LTS on this machine
<popey> wise
<popey> but if it's 10.04 era, then what spec is it? might not run unity nicely
<jacobw> unity in lts not good enough?
<Myrtti> I've got enough in my hands with her computer problems without needing to upgrade every six months
<popey> heh
<popey> my mum is on 12.04, she's not moving off that anytime soon :)
<Myrtti> jacobw: that was in response of AlanBell's suggestion
<jacobw> yeah
<popey> I'm really happy with 12.04 on my laptop, I'm resisting moving off it
<popey> but I have to test 12.10 a lot so have to have another pc with it on
<popey> especially given virtualbox is broken :(
<AlanBell> jacobw, unity is still new and being fixed
<jacobw> kvm/qemu?
<AlanBell> even more broken
<Myrtti> popey: Dell Optiplex GX620, with 1GB of RAM and Intel Pentium "3.00GHz"
<popey> kvm/qemu dont do 3d passthrough
<popey> Myrtti, yeah, that'll be better running something leaner IMO, fallback or xfce would be nice
<AlanBell> virtualbox works, but won't use the native drivers
<AlanBell> so llvmpipe
<Myrtti> if I had more money to throw into her computer problems at the moment, I'd buy more RAM
<AlanBell> will upgrade the kids to quantal later I think
<Myrtti> I'm still considering do I want to get her another two years of Flickr Pro when she doesn't know how to share pictures from F-Spot to it :-(
<Myrtti> she still wants to email the pictures as email attachments :-C
<Myrtti> "NNNOOOOOOO"
 * AlanBell opens up three ssh sessions and logs in as daddy
<christel> :o
<popey> czajkowski, which robbie is fc on about?
<AlanBell> wonder if they will notice
<popey> I made the kids "wtf" the other day by sshing in, suing to them and then exporting DISPLAY and running "scrot" to get a screenshot of what they were doing
<popey> "How'd you get that on your screen!?"
<popey> "Can you see what we're doing all the time!?"
<popey> worried looks on their faces :)
<AlanBell> :)
<jacobw> espeak "muh ha ha ha ha ha" ftw
<AlanBell> something wonderful has happened, your computer has come alive!
<AlanBell> (a phrase that earned me a detention once)
<christel> :o
 * jacobw watches bone s8e1
<jacobw> testing intercoms is always fun :)
<AlanBell> so that is 1.5TB of precise updates done, now why does sudo do-release-upgrade -d tell me there is no new release found?
<jacobw> do you a local mirror?
<AlanBell> squid-deb-proxy
<AlanBell> and 70mb broadband :)
<StevenR> AlanBell: how is that bband delivered? (VM-Cable? FTTC?)
<popey> AlanBell, LTS only
<AlanBell> fttc
<popey> see /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
<popey> Prompt=lts
<popey> change that to =normal
<popey> then do-release-upgrade -d will work
<AlanBell> cool, thanks
<popey> np
<AlanBell> StevenR: it outruns my wifi, I need to work out how to get more than 30mb across what should be wireless N
<StevenR> AlanBell: using 40MHz channels? (Can you use 5GHz N?)
<AlanBell> not sure, I poked about with the settings a bit
<AlanBell> couldn't see what to do
<StevenR> AlanBell: what hardware?
<popey> does it have two radios?
<jacobw> that's pretty crazy
<jacobw> you need mimo
<AlanBell> netgear wnr1000v3
 * popey hugs his wndr3700
<popey> \o/ ddwrt
<AlanBell> 02:00.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR9285 Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) (rev 01)
<AlanBell> on the laptop
<AlanBell> I only found out the other day that I could go from 30mb over wireless to 70mb plugged in direct
 * popey shuts down his server to move it elsewhere
<popey> wow, office much quieter with server off shocker
<StevenR> AlanBell: the datasheet suggests it can't do mimo, however you might get better performance with a) 40MHz channels if it supports it or b) Picking a better/less crowded channel (I find the Wifi Analyzer android app easiest for this)
<AlanBell> popey: I ripped all the fans out of my server, boot from an SD card and set the hdd to spin down
<brobostigon> i decided on owncloud, go the basics working last night, :)
<brobostigon> got*
<jacobw> owncloud is awesome
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> was dead easy to install, it was there in the repos, and did most of the setup for me.
<popey> AlanBell, mine has 12 disks, i think no fans in it would hurt
<popey> especially as they're spinning most of the day
 * dwatkins discovers the joys of being friendzoned once more
<AlanBell> popey: why are they spinning?
<dwatkins> Do RAID arrays not spin all the time they're on anyway?
<AlanBell> raid of ssd ftw
<dwatkins> Perhaps you're asking why the server is up all day, sorry AlanBell
<dwatkins> heh, yeah - although continuously writing to SSD can't be good for it.
<AlanBell> it is *fine*
<Myrtti> the Optiplex wasn't booting and lit the diagnostics lights in an undocumented way. In an attempt to find out what was wrong, I opened it up and cleaned the fan and heatsink and refreshed the thermal paste. It's amazing how quiet the computer is now
<dwatkins> Myrtti: win :)
<AlanBell> I boot from an SD card, bulk storage is on a 3TB spinning rust drive
<Myrtti> I'm not sure if the booting problem disappeared yet though :-|
<dwatkins> This reminds me, I need a new PC - anyone near Edinburgh got an old desktop they don't want anymore?
<AlanBell> but that only spins up to collect a backup from another computer
<AlanBell> stuff like irssi and the few websites on that box run from the sd card
<dwatkins> AlanBell: yeah, that's how I had my server setup when I was using a desktop machine, and pretty much how my netbook server works too
<dwatkins> I do tend to run things all the time in the background now, like icecast, just for fun.
<dwatkins> That reminds me, I should find out why icecast2 is transcoding and taking lots of CPU time.
<Myrtti> of course Crucial website offers me a RAM upgrade I can't get from Finland :-<
<dwatkins> Myrtti: they won't deliver to you? :(
<Myrtti> well they probably would, but delivering from US is bound to be more expensive than buying directly from a reseller
<popey> AlanBell, they are spinning because they're constantly in use
<popey> i backup every 6 hours and it takes ~4 hours to backup :)
<popey> and I'd love for you to buy me 12TB in SSD  to replace it :)
<Myrtti> anyone have experience in buying stuff from Kikatek?
<popey> Myrtti, what exact type of RAM is it? I may have some spare in my box-o-ram
<dwatkins> popey: wow, that's a pretty serious backup schedule
<popey> its the default with rsnapshot
<popey> i backup my laptop, desktop, family computer and some remote boxes and keep houly, daily, weekly, monthly
<Myrtti> DDR2 DIMM 240-pin, I'm not entirely sure how fast it can be, Crucial and Kingston seem to recommend 667MHz, but the machine has 533 at the moment
 * popey looks
<popey> what size? 1GB?
<popey> i.e. whats the max it can take?
<popey> Myrtti, found some PC2 7200 2GB
<popey> part number: OCZ2N9002GK
<popey> two of them
<popey> also, a transcend 1GB DDR2 800 DIMM CL5, PN: 509567-2381
<Myrtti> huh, just had a massive cramp in my thigh, out of breath now
 * Myrtti digs for specs
 * AlanBell has a 1GB PC2 5300 CT12364AA667.8FG
 * popey puts to one side and makes lunch
<popey> lemme know
<AlanBell> gave most of the rest of my desktop ram sticks away
<Myrtti> Dell seems to think that 4GB is the max, so does Crucial
<AlanBell> how many slots?
<Myrtti> four
<Myrtti> it's not a bad computer, it's just a bit old and underaccessorised.
<AlanBell> what is in the slots at the moment?
<Myrtti> two 512K's, product: M3 78T6553CZ3-CD5
<Myrtti> M's, even
<jacobw> ah crap, i'm going to have to upgrade to quantal
<jacobw> i'm just a sucker for shiny new things
<AlanBell> Myrtti: well I am happy to post this 1GB stick somewhere if you want it
<AlanBell> dunno if your desktop will want them in pairs though
<Myrtti> AlanBell: yeah, I don't know either, I suppose they recommend it
 * StevenR mutters about the difficulty of finding a sensibly priced router/firewall box
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: routerboard.com
<jacobw> mikrotik :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: their routeros takes some getting used to.. but it works great :)
<jacobw> yeah, it's very good
<jacobw> i just had a bad experience trying to use their scripting language update dns with dhcp hostnames
<czajkowski> popey: robbie on server team / Arm guy based down that way was at oggcamp
<popey> yeah, couldn't find a robbie on the directory
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: the hardware seems sensible... is the os sane?
<jacobw> StevenR: it's quite sensible, and it has a API
<MartijnVdS> it has a web interface too
<MartijnVdS> and a telnet/ssh interface
<MartijnVdS> I like it
<jacobw> i didn't know it had a web interface
<MartijnVdS> it looks almost like the "Winbox" interface
<MartijnVdS> (from the Windows management UI app)
<czajkowski> hmm where did popey go
<jacobw> winbox also runs fine in wine
 * christel strokes czajkowski 
<mattt> woah now
<dogmatic69> hehe bug 1055766
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1055766 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "grep -R doesn't automatically search amazon" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055766
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Pointed out to me as a wonderful example of trolling
<penguin42> (or how to explain trolling to those not internet savvy)
 * AlanBell likes the Isabel Fay song for explaining that
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz2jbCJXkpA (bits might be a tiny bit rudeish)
<penguin42> hehe nicely done
<Azelphur> AlanBell: haha, I love that song xD
<SuperEngineer> boo!
<StevenR> MartijnVdS, jacobw thanks for the suggestions :)
<ali1234> penguin42: on a similar note, commandlinefu.com has a search box on it which says "type here to grep the archive" but which does NOT accept regular expressions
<ali1234> i was disappoint
<penguin42> ali1234: Haha yes that's a bit of an ommission
<RadiumCat> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xKnmnxsjAUo/UGW7f05ibAI/AAAAAAAAQDk/NNEsYYWu3vw/s1600/oacg570.gif
<popey> http://speedtest.net/ broken?
<popey> i click begin test and it says its evaluating best server, never finishes
<AlanBell> popey: aaah, I was having trouble with that earlier too
<AlanBell> popey: fwm now, but I was trying on the kids computers and it wasn't
<AlanBell> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2210379891.png need more wifi powah
<AlanBell> s/fwm/wfm/
<popey> hmm, seems okay now
<jacobw> evening
<bigcalm_laptop> Hallo peeps
<brobostigon> evening jacobw and bigcalm_laptop
<bigcalm_laptop> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<christel> hullu kids
<bigcalm_laptop> It's christel :)
<christel> it is!
<christel> and now she must GO
<christel> i think
<bigcalm_laptop> christel: fair thee well and stuff ;) Have a good evening
<jacobw> hez
<mattt> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<pinky-> o/
<popey> evening all
<pinky-> good evening popey
<pinky-> no pub tonight?
<popey> me? no
<pinky-> popey, ok, my excuse is I'm tea-total, are you just having a break?
<popey> a break from?
<pinky-> SAturday night rituals
<pinky-> oops for caps
<popey> I'm married with kids :)
<popey> Saturday night is generally in
<MartijnVdS> Doctor Night :)
<pinky-> ahh ok that makes sense
<MartijnVdS> Appropriate post-Doctor music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RfX8MW9g2Q
<pinky-> MartijnVdS, singer sounds like SinÃ©ad O'Connor
<MartijnVdS> pinky-: she's saner though
<pinky-> MartijnVdS, most people are :o
<pinky-> I have a script on my irc cleient that when I type a nick follwed by : it opens a private message window.. I might have a look to remove it for functionality on Freenode
<pinky-> Client*
<pinky-> and get with the mode
<MartijnVdS> just use irssi
 * MartijnVdS has a script-less irssi
<MartijnVdS> some aliases, but no scripts
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  for example
<pinky-> MartijnVdS, yes irssi is an old classic
<pinky-> and still relevent
<MartijnVdS> â¥ irssi
<pinky-> The other place I'm from the chatters are not so punctional and don't add : after typing a nick for direction, I just don't want to annoy so will look into it after a freash coffee. Infact I'm that paranoid now is reason why I've even mentioned it.
<MartijnVdS> pinky-: At work, people copy/paste the entire first bit of the line instead of jsut tab-completing
<MartijnVdS> so the so:
<MartijnVdS> so they do*
<MartijnVdS> < pinky->
<MartijnVdS> which is VERY annoying :)
<pinky-> ok, now I know
<pinky-> time-stamps re-paste annoys me sometimes, but not all
<pinky-> depends if I wanted to know or not:)
<MartijnVdS> so do that too
<MartijnVdS> But they tend to make the sysadmins angry.. so that gets.. "dealt with"
<jacobw> graphical irc feels wrong :(
<Darael> My irssi's been segfaulting every few days.  The xmpp module seems to have got less stable.  At least, I /think/ that's what it is.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: xmpp in irssi? you scary scary man.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: just use bitlbee :)
<Darael> MartijnVdS: There's a plugin in the repos.  And bitlbee doesn't integrate as nicely as a proper plugin.
<Darael> I can't /roster and similar without setting up a whole host of aliases if I use bitlbee.
<MartijnVdS> I tend to use gtalk inside gmail anyway
<MartijnVdS> and not much else
<MartijnVdS> Time for zzz
<Darael> On my own machines I use psi+ for my xmpp, but I'm frequently on others.  Especially since my lappy's currently out of action.
<pinky-> cool I have managed to successfully edit my script and can now use : after a nick without loads of nonsense happening:)
<Darael> Excellent.
<pinky-> Darael: thanks
<Darael> I still think irssi is better than mIRC.  I may be somewhat biased.
<Darael> Hmm, that reminds me, I should set my CTCP VERSION response to something improbable.
<Darael> irssi v1.0?
<pinky-> Darael: I never said I was using mIRC. what made you think I was?:)
<Darael> pinky-: I ran a CTCP VERSION and it said so.  Of course that could have been a custom VERSION string deceiving me.
<Darael> pinky-: mIRC v7.22 Khaled Mardam-Bey, to be precise.
<pinky-> Darael: my last ctfcp reply said "oops someone stole it from me"
<pinky-> :)
<pinky-> without the f
<pinky-> was a typo.. yet again!
<Darael> That's not bad.  Still tempted by "irssi v1.0", although I think I should also claim it's running on, say, a Beeb.
<Darael> Or a Spectrum.
<pinky-> Vic-20 :o
<Darael> Colossus?
<pinky-> Commodore Vic 20.. slightly before the spectrum
<Darael> I know.  I was making another suggestion.
<Darael> How about the Analytical Machine?
<pinky-> no, no and no.. I'm dumb and know very little
<pinky-> I will look it up once I've made a freash coffee
<Darael> The Analytical Machine was Babbage's later unfinished project.  A mechanical computer, a successor to the Difference Engine.
<christel> COFFEE
<Darael> Coffee?  What is this witchcraft?
<pinky-> Darael: it is pure Voodoo
<Darael> Tell me more.
<pinky-> no lame decaf for me:)
<ddtge> hi
<ddtge> what image viewer support animated sideshow?
 * penguin42 suspects imagemagick's does
<ddtge> penguin42, i want to use it like a digital photo frame.
<penguin42> ddtge: try the 'display' program from graphicsmagick package, it can do most things
<ddtge> penguin42, now i'm work with feh, but i can't find a way to make animated transition
<penguin42> ddtge: I've not tried anything for pretty display of images; display is more a tool - it can do most things, it's not necessary nice about it
<ddtge> i see.
<ddtge> i'm after the installation of graphicsmagick package, but i can't find how to use it..
<penguin42> I said it wasn't necessarily pretty :-)
<ddtge> if i type 'display' in the terminal it can't fine the command..
<penguin42> odd
<ddtge> The program 'display' can be found in the following packages:
<ddtge>  * imagemagick
<ddtge>  * graphicsmagick-imagemagick-compat
#ubuntu-uk 2012-09-30
<pinky-> Darael: does my version still reply? Can you please test?
<penguin42> ddtge: Ah, pick either, I'm used to imagemagick
<Darael> pinky-: Nothing.
<pinky-> Darael: thanks
<Darael> pinky-: No trouble.
<ddtge> i'm doing that now :)
<ddtge> penguin42, now i have it! i but i can't see anything in the --help  about slideshow / effects / animation
<penguin42> ddtge: I suspect it hasn't got the animation/effects you are after - it will show a sequence with a delay
<ddtge> penguin42, how i can open folder with photos and show them like a slideshow
<ddtge> now i see only an option to open one image
<popey> morning
<daubers> o/
<Myrtti> quiet, innit
<czajkowski> yarp
<webpigeon> jabber \o/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<dwatkins> morning brobostigon et al
<dwatkins> NGRhodes_: connection problems?
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<webpigeon> RadiumCat: you are both connected and disconnected at the same time?
<dwatkins> Perhaps RadiumCat belongs to Schroedinger.
<webpigeon> dwatkins: it would appear so
<Darael> Well, Radium /is/ unstable, I suppose this behaviour is in keeping with the name.
 * popey lusts after http://www.ebuyer.com/392604-ocz-512gb-vertex-4-ssd-vtx4-25sat3-512g-m
<pinky-> yeah nice
<pinky-> popey, you need 2 for RAID-0
<pinky-> ;)
<popey> heh, not in my laptop
<popey> its hard enough crowbaring one in!
<pinky-> hehe @ crowbar
<popey> 9mm drive in a 7.5mm slot
<MartijnVdS> Sounds more like "angle grinder" than "crowbar"
<popey> a good hearty shove was all that was needed
<pinky-> popey: was the last hdd a bottleneck?
<popey> I bought it with a 320GB hard disk and immediately switched it to SSD, so never really benchmarked it
<popey> but I wouldn't go back to spinning rust now
<directhex> the wife is constrained by her 120G SSD
<directhex> so i bought her a 240G yesterday. she doesn't know yet
<popey> yeah, my laptop is 240G which is about right
<MartijnVdS> I have 120G in my laptop
<popey> sometimes I want to reboot into otherOS though which would be nice to have on here too
<MartijnVdS> I only miss my music.. but spotify fills that hole
<popey> /dev/sda1            213G  187G   16G  93% /
<popey> getting tight now and then
<popey> VMs don't help
<popey> 44G	VirtualBox VMs/
<MartijnVdS> VMs take up a lot, agreed
<MartijnVdS> Btrfs, or ext?
<directhex> windows ssd for boot drive is all well & good, except it puts the windows version of /home on the boot drive, and that bloats FAST
<popey> ext4
<Darael> Did they fix btrfs fsync() taking an age, yet?
<MartijnVdS> Darael: yes
<popey> if i get a bigger ssd I'll go btrfs i think
<pinky-> Since I discovered the benefits of RAID 0 I have installed 2 x's hdd's in every pc I have ever built since
<MartijnVdS> My laptop has SSD + btrfs
<MartijnVdS> I love it :)
<popey> :)
<Darael> I mean, I know we had a workaround with libeatmydata, but it was potentially flaky.  So it's good to know that dpkg can be usable on btrfs now without it.
<popey> what kernel do you run on it MartijnVdS ?
<MartijnVdS> popey: quantal-default
<MartijnVdS> popey: (amd64)
<popey> ok
<popey> nice
<MartijnVdS> -u
<MartijnVdS> or not?
<MartijnVdS> with u!
<MartijnVdS> I hope "r" will have an easier name ;)
<MartijnVdS> Rampaging Rhino or something
<Darael> I don't want an Rhino Rampaging all over my computer!  Those things are /heavy/.
<MartijnVdS> roaring rhesus?
<Darael> Can't we have a Ribald Raven instead?  No, we can't have a Raven; there would be too many "nevermore" jokes.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: roving rabbit
<Darael> MartijnVdS: It might run away, or freeze in headlights!
<MartijnVdS> beta-freeze? :)
<MartijnVdS> me decides it's a nice afternoon for Kings of Convenience
<pinky-> I only discovered Goyte for the first time last week cos of this track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVNT4wvIGY and this week bought his last 4 albums
<pinky-> well his only 4 albums
<MartijnVdS> pinky-: only last week? Do you not own a radio? :)
<pinky-> MartijnVdS: I hit my head in the 90's
<awilkins> Is it just me, or are the API docs for Firefox extensions really hard to find? (ie - not found them yet).
<pinky-> MartijnVdS: radio.. I mainly listen to Radio 4 in the kitchen and that's about it
<awilkins> I just want to know what events I can hook so I can patch User Agent Switcher to switch agent automatically
<awilkins> So my wife can use Pymazon to download music automatically without having to manually flip her user agent every time
<awilkins> Stupid Amazon "Linux isn't supported, but if you pretend to be Windows you still get the AMZ files, cos we are dumbasses"
<awilkins> Why couldn't they just kick a couple of K the way of the Pymazon guy and support it officially
<pinky-> Gotye*
<pinky-> typo yet again!
<pinky-> I'm completely useless
<MartijnVdS> Resistance is useless!
<penguin42> and futile
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-btrfs/msg19182.html
<MartijnVdS> popey: teh shineys!
<pinky-> all my neighbors love me as I never blast LOUD music.. infact they rarely even see me at all!
 * pinky- goes back into the shadows
<penguin42> pinky-: Except for when you have to dig another pit of course
<pinky-> penguin42: well that's what they say about peeps who don't have a Facebook account..
 * penguin42 gulps
<pinky-> :o
<penguin42> .me thought he was the only one
<popey> nice MartijnVdS
<popey> Wish we had an Ubuntu community mumble server
<popey> I'd probably lurk on it
<pinky-> Sunday, the day of rest.
<MartijnVdS> REST?
<pinky-> Sunday, day of leisure.
<penguin42> sunday, day of realising you'll have to get up 4 hours earlier tomorrow
 * pinky- ponders about glass half full or half empty theory
<RaycisCharles> Sounds like you believe in Intelligent Emptiness.
<MartijnVdS> pinky-: http://whatif.xkcd.com/6/
<pinky-> and the moral of the story is, If the optimist says the glass is half full, and the pessimist says the glass is half empty, the physicist ducks.
<pinky-> lmao
<MartijnVdS> pinky-: read his other "what-if"s, they're all this good :)
<pinky-> MartijnVdS: that is a good page so bookmarked:)
<AlanBell> popey: so what would be involved in an Ubuntu community mumble server?
<popey> a place where people can hang out and chat
<popey> and have meetings
<popey> would need some moderation
<AlanBell> ok
<popey> there's other mumble servers that I hang out on sometimes both at the weekend/evening and during the working day
<AlanBell> well I can fling one up (well I have one at mumble.libertus.co.uk)
<popey> useful for those of us working from home
<popey> i know the kernel team hang out on the canonical mumble server all day
<popey> and chat during the working day about work and non-work like you would in an office
<AlanBell> last time I mentioned this canonical didn't want to host a community mumble server
<popey> I would imagine quite a moderation overhead
<popey> much like irc
<popey> i dunno if the canonical one is patched to only allow members of ~canonical to access it
<AlanBell> true, but that can be shared out, there is a permissions structure built into mumble
<popey> cool
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4SiCY622A8 my current annoyance
<popey> which reminds me, need to go to the office sometime soon
<ddtge> hi
<ddtge> someone know how to setup an IR usb stick?
<ddtge> it's recognize in dmseg as "rc-dib0700-rc5"
<AlanBell> popey: I need a password to connect to the canonical server
<popey> yeah
<AlanBell> popey: I don't get the alt-grave popup
<popey> as a guest?
<popey> what spec pc?
<AlanBell> core i3 laptop
<popey> i get it on two i7 machines
<AlanBell> it feels about the same as the delay on alt-tab
<AlanBell> if you alt-tab fairly quick you don't get the popup
<popey> yeah
<popey> i still get it on 12.04
<popey> alt-tab as fast as I can, I still see it :(
<popey> dunno what I'm doing different
 * popey gets back to testing compiz prerelease
<AlanBell> didn't you dial down the time for alt-tab popup somewhere
<AlanBell> there is an alt-tab delay setting somewhere but I can't find it now
<penguin42> anyone had any experience with the zoostorm PCs - good or bad, thinking of one for my dad
<AlanBell> penguin42: good
<webpigeon> penguin42: i'm on one now
<penguin42> http://www.ebuyer.com/389624-zoostorm-desktop-pc-7873-1067 seems ludicrously cheap for quad core
<AlanBell> well they don't have a windows boat anchor attached to the price tag
<penguin42> true
<webpigeon> that and the motherboard has almost no expandability
<AlanBell> cheaper than buying the parts to make it
<penguin42> AlanBell: Yeh
<webpigeon> indeed
<penguin42> claims to have 1 PCI-e, PCI, and PCI-e
<webpigeon> mm
<popey> not me AlanBell
<popey> AlanBell, can you test something, go to an empty desktop, open a medium sized nautilus window and drag it _slowly_ to the edges
<popey> it should 'stick' a bit at all four edges
<popey> for me it only sticks top/right/bottom, but never sticks where the launcher is on the left
<AlanBell> sticks for me in a guest session
<AlanBell> all 4 edges
<AlanBell> but I haven't installed the sil2100 ppa
<popey> oh hang on
<popey> it sticks at the launcher, I'm an idiot
<popey> i was testing at the edge of the screen
<popey> \o/ not a bug
<AlanBell> yeah, at the edge of the launcher
 * AlanBell observes a broken show mouse and broken enhanced zoom /o\
<AlanBell> wonder if that is just me
<AlanBell> lets get this ppa of the new hotness installed
<popey> thanks
<AlanBell> hmm, weak lemon drink
<AlanBell> will tomato juice with worcester sauce do?
<penguin42> Why: http://www.ebuyer.com/131752-startech-1-port-16550-isa-serial-card-isa1s550
<penguin42> which century are we in?
<AlanBell> penguin42: lots of things like receipt printers have serial ports
<penguin42> AlanBell: But it's *ISA*
<AlanBell> oic
 * penguin42 was looking for a PCI(e) 232 card
<popey> i only ever drink tomato juice on BA flights
<popey> stupid really, I love the stuff
<AlanBell> thats where I got into it
<AlanBell> but I never had it at home
<mgdm> I used to only ever drink G&T on planes
<mgdm> that has now changed
<AlanBell> but sainsburys were doing 3 for 2 on juices and I only wanted two, so grabbed a tomato one for kicks, it is great
<AlanBell> really the shopping lens should have started with an Occado link rather than Amazon
<AlanBell> although, that said, it does find a wide array of tomato juice options from amazon
<popey> hah
<popey> so it does!
<popey> ooo they deliver via amazon prime
<popey> 66p/l
 * popey checks sainsbugs
<popey> Â£1/L
<popey> 62p/L for 'basics'
<popey> so is it worth 4p/L extra?
<AlanBell> probably, I expect basics is a bit more watery
<popey> we'll see, arrives on tuesday
<AlanBell> you will of course also need a clear plastic stiring stick
<AlanBell> to recreate that 30,000ft experience
<mgdm> heh
<AlanBell> the show mouse plugin isn't working for me :(
 * penguin42 hands AlanBell xeyes
<AlanBell> yeah, that works, but I want glittery sprinkles
<popey> AlanBell, could you please file bugs and lemme know the numbers?
<popey> and if you roll back your compiz just check to see if they were already broken?
<AlanBell> ok
<popey> thank you!
<AlanBell> running compiz Installed: 1:0.9.8.4-0ubuntu1~test2
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<popey> hello
<popey> bah, i want some tomato juice now!
<pr0ph3t> how bad is it to upgrade distro through aptitude rather thank doing a fresh install?
<mgdm> popey: so go and get some of the cheap stuff, and you can then do a proper compariso
<pr0ph3t> or a bloody mary popey
<penguin42> pr0ph3t: It's best to use do-release-upgrade or update-maanager
<penguin42> pr0ph3t: With those it normally works, especially if you wait until late beta or the release
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/109175303602657131317/posts/f8eTpGbiLMk
<penguin42> pr0ph3t: They tend to fix up a few things that a simple dist-upgrade doesn't
<pr0ph3t> thanks penguin42
<popey> AlanBell, i have a clear plastic stirring device!
 * popey goes to the co-op
<popey> brb
<penguin42> can see this is turning into a survey of different tomato juices
<AlanBell> hope popey has the worcester sauce
 * AlanBell files a long standing annoying bug where the laptop flips to mirrored screens after logging in.
<AlanBell> Bug #1059073
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1059073 in xorg (Ubuntu) "dual screens flip to mirrored screens shortly after logging in" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1059073
<penguin42> the shortly after is a bit weird
<penguin42> that is odd
<penguin42> AlanBell: By that point would you say it's finished starting all the apps and everything else in your startup?
<AlanBell> penguin42: yes
<penguin42> weird
<AlanBell> just waiting for a video to upload
<penguin42> AlanBell: OK, then given you've got that 30 second gap, I think what I'd try and do would be immediately after it's started capture a copy of /var/log/Xorg.0.log and the output of xrandr and dmesg and then capture it again after it's changed and see if there is anything added
<AlanBell> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/117898636/XorgLog.txt there it is
<penguin42> is that captured after the change?
<AlanBell> yeah, I think the stuff starting at 59 seconds is it
<penguin42> yeh, never seen that - some power management magic
<penguin42> AlanBell: During that 30 seconds or so are you keeping it active - e.g. wiggling mouse or anything?
<AlanBell> yeah, I am starting to do stuff
<AlanBell> like open windows, type things
<penguin42> weird, so it's not got any good reason to think about power saving
<AlanBell> popey: how do I nuke all my compiz settings?
<penguin42> AlanBell: Have you had a play with powertop?
<penguin42> AlanBell: (Don't - it's a question not a suggestion)
<AlanBell> have used powertop a while back
<penguin42> AlanBell: just wondered if some over enthusiastic power saving thing is enabled
<AlanBell> dunno, don't think so
<AlanBell> yay, found the compiz settings, removed ~.config/compiz-1/
<AlanBell> ok, so enhanced zoom works fine, show mouse still doesn't
<AlanBell> bug 1059104
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1059104 in compiz-plugins-extra (Ubuntu) "show mouse does not initiate" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1059104
 * AlanBell adds a video to bug 1059073
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1059073 in xorg (Ubuntu) "dual screens flip to mirrored screens shortly after logging in" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1059073
<popey> longest shopping trip _ever_
<popey> AlanBell, you should test as guest
<MartijnVdS> that should be some kind of bug-filing mantra
<MartijnVdS> "Test as guest!"
<popey> had to go to 5 shops to eventually find one that sold tomato juice
<AlanBell> true, but I did want my own profile reset anyway
<penguin42> is that the standard quantal backdrop? and is that green thing a quantal?)
<AlanBell> having done so I can now have the launcher on one screen only \o/ (it was stuck on both)
<penguin42> or is it a quatzal
<AlanBell> it is a quetzal
<AlanBell> and it is a standard wallpaper but not the default
<penguin42> well, ain't it cute
<AlanBell> default is the bruise still
<AlanBell> or baby sick depending on your outlook
 * MartijnVdS is still on this background: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/6816260055/in/set-72157629167894627
<Laney> edubuntu's wallpapers are nice
<AlanBell> they are
<AlanBell> dunno why we include a rather nice wallpaper featuring the animal but don't set it as default
<AlanBell> pangolin one was fine too
<popey> turns out the price of tomato juice in waitrose is the same as amazon
<popey> \o/
<MartijnVdS> popey: but free shipping!
<AlanBell> can we set up RAID with the desktop CD now?
<popey> yes i think so
<popey> AlanBell, try this...
<popey> backup ~/.config/monitors.xml  and remove it, logout, log back in, see what your displays do
<popey> then set up your displays how you like them, logout / login, see if it works properly
<popey> then diff the backup of monitors.xml and the new one, see what broke
<AlanBell> think I have already tried removing that
<penguin42> popey: the pm message in his logs looks interesting though?
<popey> not seen it...
<popey> [    59.053] (II) PM Event received: Capability Changed
<popey> that?
<penguin42> popey: nod
<penguin42> popey: that seems to correspond to about the time it goes screwy
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/126455/ubuntu-12-04-dual-monitor-reset-bug
<popey> so you are not alone AlanBell
<AlanBell> ok, removed monitors.xml
<AlanBell> set them up right, rebooted, logged back in, was about to type here how fixed it was, then it flipped again
 * penguin42 wonders if you can monitor PM events with something like dbus-monitor?
<zleap-netbook> hi
<popey> AlanBell, bug 1059104 is stock quantal, not with the ppa?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1059104 in compiz-plugins-extra (Ubuntu) "show mouse does not initiate" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1059104
<AlanBell> popey: both
<AlanBell> and I did test that as guest
<popey> ok, ta
 * AlanBell installs 10.04
<zleap> 10.04
<penguin42> AlanBell: Is that a newish Sammy laptop ?
<zleap> isn't that the previous LTS release
<penguin42> zleap: Yeh, Lucid
<AlanBell> penguin42: it is a 3 year old samsung R530
<AlanBell> yeah, installing 10.04 LTS server with KVM
<zleap> ah
<penguin42> AlanBell: Ah ok, it's just there is a rather nasty bricking bug with some of the new ones if you boot them using EFI
<zleap> not good
<AlanBell> going to put a VM on it, then suspend it, then upgrade from 10.04 to 12.04 and unsuspend the VM and let it carry on
<penguin42> AlanBell: Are you taking bets on that working?
<AlanBell> well if I was gambling I would do it on the live server with 10 or so customer VMs on it
<penguin42> AlanBell: Hmm, I'd be surprised if it works, but please, carry on
<AlanBell> yeah, my first thought was lolno
<AlanBell> but then I couldn't really think of any reason why no
<penguin42> AlanBell: The alternative you might try is a live migration from a 10.04 box to a 12.04 box
<penguin42> AlanBell: I'm not sure either way works, but if they do I'd make sure I try with a config as close as possible to the VMs you use for the customers
<AlanBell> haven't got the hardware for that
<AlanBell> not on the right subnet anyway, which a live migration requires
<AlanBell> it is odd with startup disk creator that copying the data takes a few seconds and installing the bootloader takes a few minutes
<penguin42> AlanBell: I suspect that copying the data hasn't actually finished, it's still in buffers somewhere, and the installing the bootloader is waiting for it to empty out?
<AlanBell> yeah, that sounds plausible
<MartijnVdS> sync()
<MartijnVdS> + slow USB drives
<penguin42> syncing data, come back next week
<MartijnVdS> my laptop does that on reboot
<MartijnVdS> Lots of disk activity for a minute.. then it shuts down/reboots
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: yeh my desktop takes annoyingly long to shutdown and I haven't figured out why - I wonder if there is something like bootcamp for shutdown
<penguin42> (I did find ctrl-alt-shift-pagedown though which is a KDE shortcut for shutdown which is just great!)
<popey> AlanBell, I do wonder how much bandwidth an always on mumble would eat though
<AlanBell> popey: I have 10,000 GB/month before being throttled down to 10Mbit/s
<AlanBell> or pay a few quid and stay at full speed
<penguin42> AlanBell: Heck, who is that with?
<AlanBell> http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex5
<penguin42> popey: I doubt that much for audio, is it smart enough to compress?
<penguin42> ah yeh heard of them
<penguin42> popey: especially for silence?
<AlanBell> just for a laugh lets see what speedtest.net makes of my server (running a desktop in a VM on the server)
<AlanBell> http://speedtest.net/result/2212372426.png
<popey> nice
<stgraber> AlanBell: sadly I don't have a desktop VM on my hetzner server so I can't post a result 10 times faster than yours ;) yay for gigabit
<AlanBell> :) I dunno if I have one on gigabit or if the VM is not getting the full speed of the host or something
<stgraber> which reminds me, I need to be careful today, I'm at 9.8TB already, don't want to go over the 10TB mark this month :)
<AlanBell> don't you have the edubuntu cloud thing on your servers?
<stgraber> yeah, weblive is at hetzner but I'm blocking internet access from those as we had quite a bit of abuse in the past
<czajkowski> evening folks
<AlanBell> well KVM without hardware accelleration is a bit slow isn't it
<tombrough> lol - bit? that's like say the ocean has a few buckets of water.....
<AlanBell> tombrough: yeah, I wasn't in a hurry as such, but it is not doing anything much apart from 100%cpu
<tombrough> we have Xen for our linux/oracle  (under Oracle's VM Cluster Managemenr rollout) at work (as well as VMWARE) and its amazing how many servers we can get running, our biggest problem has been running out of physical memory as oracle needs it, but processors hardly break a sweat.
<tombrough> of course the VMWARE guys are in networks and are pro microsoft technology, but they start shuffling and coughing when you mention that VMWARE is really linux under the hood.
<AlanBell> it is
<tombrough> yeah VM support in the cores makes a huge difference.
<AlanBell> we get a heap of vms running  on our servers, but I wanted to test an upgrade
<AlanBell> doesn't seem to want to run on an atom processor or in a VM on my laptop
<AlanBell> kvm in a virtualbox vm
<penguin42> AlanBell: kvm inside kvm works ok
<AlanBell> running kvm-ok inside a kvm vm tells me it isn't supported
<penguin42> AlanBell: On which host?
<penguin42> AlanBell: The outer kvm needs to be relatively new (12.04 works OK)
<AlanBell> oh bother
 * AlanBell is in a maze of twisty passages
<AlanBell> this might be something that I should be using EC2 for
<AlanBell> kvm in EC2 works OK I assume?
 * penguin42 hasn't tried
<penguin42> AlanBell: Is this because you haven't got a spare box to try 12.04 on to see if you can migrate?
<AlanBell> yeah, I want to start with 10.04 running kvm
<AlanBell> then upgrade the host to 12.04
<AlanBell> and see what happens to a paused VM
<Azelphur> does anyone know how to find out when an area is scheduled for BT infinity upgrade?
<penguin42> AlanBell: Can I ask you a nasty question? What happens if one of your customer facing hosts blows up? You have a spare right?
<penguin42> Azelphur: Try samknows
<AlanBell> penguin42: we can buy a spare really quick, and if the hardware blows up hetzner has to replace it (and we have backups etc)
<penguin42> AlanBell: Oh ok, they're all hetzner things
<penguin42> sorry, hadn't realised they were all like that
<Azelphur> penguin42: it just says "FFTC is available in my area" but when I go to BT to order, it's not.
<AlanBell> yeah, we have 4 hetzner boxes and one elsewhere
<Azelphur> my exchange is enabled, but my house isn't XD
<penguin42> Azelphur: Yeh I have the same problem
<AlanBell> Azelphur: wander the streets and look at the posters on the green boxes
<penguin42> Azelphur: In my case I don't think it's going to happen because there isn't the space on the street for the box
<Azelphur> AlanBell: fun
<AlanBell> penguin42: the cabinet will already be there somewhere
<AlanBell> they just have to run fibre to the cabinet, and install a thingie to make it all work in the cabinet and another thingie in your house that has an ethernet port on it
<penguin42> AlanBell: I don't believe the cabinet on our road has been replaced by a fibre capable cab because I don't think there is the room for the larger cab
<AlanBell> oh, didn't know they were larger
<penguin42> AlanBell: Very noticeably - there are some changes to planning laws they're doing for them, but they're noticably larger; watch out for the ones with the vents on and the 'danger 230v' sticker
<penguin42> AlanBell: The older ones are just passive junction boxes
<AlanBell> oh ok
<penguin42> AlanBell: New one http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2672/050ea.jpg
<AlanBell> yeah, thats what we have round here
<penguin42> AlanBell: Old http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tddZEe934uk/TmzABGhFi6I/AAAAAAAAAR0/GDr2jim3hi8/s1600/Wilmslow+Rd+BT+exchange+street+cabinet.JPG
<pinky-> Slackware 14.0 now available
<Darael> Shiny.
<pinky-> I only mentioned because peeps were chatting about it yesterday
<pinky-> Slackware that is
<Darael> Indeed.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-23
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning Ratfans ;-) (See what I did there?)
<AlanBell> Daviey: \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
<AlanBell> morning
<MartijnVdS> Morning everyone
<MartijnVdS> Daviey: The RAT train? Does it also have an LCD display and a PIN number? :P
<DJones> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> So how was the RAT then? Sorry I missed it but I was being entertained by a bunch of very petty female open source developers from Albania
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\petty\pretty
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you might get in trouble with the CoC for saying it like that ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> But they were pretty. That's a compliment.
<AlanBell> RAT was great :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> o/ czajkowski
<mungbean> has anyone read the new linkedin TOS?
<MartijnVdS> I guess it's a PoS?
<mungbean> i don't trsut those guys
<mungbean> even if you create a fake account, your main account soon suggests them as a friend
<mungbean> suggesting access to gmail contacts, or checking cookies /IP address
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning MooDoo
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Checkers Day! :)
<SuperMatt> as in the game?
<SuperMatt> which normal people call draughts
<mungbean> my kettle is tripping the main breaker switch in the house rather than the one for the downstairs plug sockets - whats all that abot?
<SuperMatt> stuff's messed up, yo.
<mgdm> mungbean: means you need a new kettle :-)
<mungbean> it is 15 days old
<mgdm> means it needs to go back to the shop, and you get a new kettle... :-)
<mungbean> but why doesn't it trip the first fuse?
<mgdm> Not sure. Does the main one have an RCD and that one not?
<mungbean> they all have trip switches
<mungbean> downstairs lights, downstairs plugs , etc
<mungbean> unless the downstairs plugs don't...i was dark of course
<mungbean> no power
<diplo> Only reason I'd say it's blowing is it's pulling more than the amperage of the trip, so that Circuit breaker is 32amp and it's pulling more than that on that breaker combined when it went off
<diplo> Could be to a faulty kettle, could be something else causing it though
<diplo> Anyone changed an iPhone screen ( think it's a 4? )
<mgdm> I've not personally but I've seen a 4S done
<mgdm> not *hard*, but extremely fiddly
<diplo> Seem simple enough? My girlfriend dropped hers at the weekend
<diplo> Crack from top to the bottom right, just 1 line.. it's not the end but she's not happy :/
<mgdm> she can fix it then :-)
<diplo> Found for Â£19.99 on ebay
<diplo> hah, yeah not a chance. Going to check how much local people charge to do it. If it's not to fiddly I'm happy to do it, will watch a few YouTube vids I guess
<mgdm> IIRC it took over an hour
<diplo> Oh :/
<mgdm> not *hard*, but you have to strip the phone right down
<mgdm> and you need a set of odd-shaped screwdrivers (which are eBayable)
<Myrtti> hello sweetiepies â¥
<diplo> yeah seems to come with the Â£19 purchase
<diplo> Watching a vid now, hi Myrtti
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Myrtti> first proper day at work after the shock of getting a job
<Myrtti> this is mindblowing
<mungbean> on irc already?
<Myrtti> mungbean: they've not managed to give me an email address even yet
<Myrtti> (and some of my coworkers are in fact in IRC)
<mgdm> Myrtti: where you working, if you don't mind me being noseY? :)
<Myrtti> mgdm: it's a free high school (or that's what they call themselves) that have open source projects related to teaching, studying and research
<mgdm> ah, cool
<Myrtti> learning environments, project paradigm based school administration software etc
<Myrtti> just sent some information on what kind of laptop I'd want if I am given one and have a chance of humbly request something
<popey> diplo: I took my iphone 4s into a local phone shop and they did it for me
<mungbean> i just broke my pint glass from 1995 UMIST beer festival :(
<brobostigon> :(
<mungbean> and sliced my finger :(
<mungbean> can't ask for a plaster or they will get all bureaucratic on me
<diplo> popey: ta, just phoned a local PC/repair place they do it for Â£59. Is that around what you paid ?
<popey> diplo: mine was back screen so no
<popey> back glass..
<diplo> ah right ok
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diplo> Morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Trying to ignore work emails when one is on holiday is very difficult
<mungbean> different accout or same?
<mungbean> i just don't open the email app
<bigcalm> I should have disabled my phone from fetching work email
<bigcalm> Myrtti: X13 then?
<Myrtti> yup
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> Who put the south so far away from home?
<bigcalm> Not really looking forward to the drive back today
 * AlanBell quite likes the look of the Tesco Hudl
<mungbean> bad name
<mungbean> its like lidl
<Azelphur> hmm, eBuyer is trying to sell me things in an amusing way
<AlanBell> true, but nice specification and price/spec ratio
<Azelphur> sent me an email, subject "Customer, A Special offer just for you: 6 x 100 x3/ sum(a=b)2 + 42 ="
<Myrtti> AWWWWWWWW DARNIT
<Myrtti> I can't order more Yorkshire tea to Finland from Amazon.co.uk.
<Myrtti> well, not the size I'd want
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm, popey, AlanBell: good trip on rat?
<davmor2> MooDoo: 'ow do mucka
<MooDoo> davmor2: alreet lad, good weekend?
<davmor2> nicely relaxed to start the week which is good :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: morning. Went very well thanks
<popey> davmor2: yes, great fun
<bigcalm> Time to head norf. See you kids tomorrow
<SuperMatt> be careful, it's grim up there
<MooDoo> it's lovely up here, well if you can consider the midlands NORF!
<Laney> looks grey to me
<SuperMatt> it's grey here is the centre of london :(
<SuperMatt> someone forgot to tell the clouds it's supposed to be nice and warm today
<davmor2> MooDoo: he lives up the road from me so he is down sowf and is coming home so midlands is norf of where he is currently :D
<hoover> hi folks
<MooDoo> davmor2: then it's lovely and bleak up here ;)
<MooDoo> howdy hoover
<davmor2> hello hoover
<davmor2> MooDoo: indeed, rather than the midlands it should just be called bleak country :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah it's just over cast at the moment, was foggy earlier.
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's a lovely warm shade of grey here :D
<MooDoo> nice and cool when I'm on my motorbike :D
<popey> seems oppo are launching a new phone - N1 - http://c.youku.com/n1 (live stream in Chinese)
<mungbean> any built-in apps for ubuntu handle ftps?
<mgdm> ftps as opposed to sftp?
<SuperMatt> I think vsftpd is what you're looking for
<SuperMatt> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/vsftpd
<davmor2> mungbean: how do you mean handle and do you mean server or client?
<AlanBell> popey: does it have cyanogen mod on it?
<popey> looks like their own version of cyanogen called Color OS
<popey> I *think*
<popey> My chinese isn't great
<davmor2> mungbean: if you are just after a client filezilla, server vsftpd
<davmor2> mungbean: and if you mean sftp instead of ftps then nautilus can connect to sftp
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei92bhNTTlU what is this piece of music called? (other than "theme from super pang germany stage")
<popey> google play says "Hold On To Nothing - Daylight Dies" :D
<ali1234> google play has told me two different wrong things already
<directhex> google play told me prokofiev
<ali1234> it told me mozart
<ali1234> it's something like this though. all the music from the game is public domain folk/classical
<directhex> it sounds german in style
<directhex> but it's so long since i studied this stuff
<ali1234> it does... sounds like drinking music
<directhex> Liszt?
<directhex> one of the hungarian rhapsodies
<directhex> maybe 6
<directhex> or 14
<popey> that oppo N1 looks like a nice spec device
<popey> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YxnZJ7MISJQ/UkA1O8szZmI/AAAAAAAAHEU/Kv0_N88TIHU/w426-h244/Oppo.jpg
<directhex> op, op, op, oppo android style
<directhex> also, seen tesco's android tablet?
<directhex> Â£120 cash, 60 quid in clubcard vouchers
<brobostigon-quas> I am officially engaged to be married to my beautiful gf Kate.
<mungbean> \o/ congrats
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon-quas: congratulations :)
<mgdm> brobostigon-quas: congratulations! :D
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon-quas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jd1Ih8EUmw
<brobostigon-quas> thank you :)
<mungbean> davmor2: yeah, i was wondering if nautilus did it, but i think filezila will need to be installing ...ftps
<AlanBell> \o/ brobostigon-quas that is great
<brobostigon-quas> thank you Alan
<AlanBell> directhex: I hadn't seen the clubcard voucher price, but it is quite a good deal even for cash
<brobostigon-quas> beer all round for everyone
<MooDoo> o/
<ali1234> is the tesco tablet any good though?
<ali1234> cos i mean you can buy a cheap nasty tablet for Â£60 fairly easily
<AlanBell> ali1234: apparently it is OK. 7 inch tablet, 1440x900 micro hdmi out, 16GB storage
<mungbean> i wonder what data gathering they will do
<ali1234> none after i put cyanogenmod on it
<mungbean> clubcard is a huge data operation
<mungbean> have a stomach upset but can't safely get home from the office :'(
<diplo> To bad to drive mungbean ?
<popey> immodium requirement?
 * popey updates daughters phone to ios7
<diplo> My girlfriend updated his earlier, took over 2 hours!
<diplo> last night*
<mgdm> 'his'? :)
<mungbean> too bad to manage 60 minute journey :(
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: it's all possible these days
<diplo> hah mgdm
<diplo> <-- Honestly needs to go back to bed
<mungbean> box.net upgraded my free account to 100GB
<MartijnVdS> http://www.androidauthority.com/blackberry-out-of-consumer-market-271640/
<diplo> blimey nice MartijnVdS
<diplo> oops mungbean *
<mungbean> it was lame until i realised the ftps connection worked
<mungbean> was forced to use their lame web interface before, which is no use for uploading larger folders
<diplo> I've never looked at ox.net
<diplo> box*
<mungbean> strangely i don't have imodium on me :(
 * mungbean wants to curl up into a ball and cry
<diplo> You work in a education place don't you ?
<mungbean> yesh
<diplo> Not got a nurse, or area where someone may have some ?
<mungbean> meh, better going to the chemist
<mungbean> but thats away from safe place
<MartijnVdS> dial-a-chemist?
<mungbean> dial a hug
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: they have websites for that
<popey> get a co-worker to go for you?
<popey> bigcalm: how much was your galaxy nexus?
<popey> they're ~140 on ebay
<directhex> why buy a gnex for Â£140 when a nex4 is Â£160?
<popey> I already have two nex4
<popey> i need a gnex
<popey> might wander down to cex later
<SuperMatt> the fact you want more of them suggests that ubuntu touch is coming along quite nicely :)
<popey> its more that I want to test it on each device
<SuperMatt> fair enough
<davmor2> popey: ebay is possibly cheaper
<popey> Yeah.
<popey> Oh, today is steam announce day isn't it?
<davmor2> popey: I think I paid 5-10 more than bigcalm including his PP
<popey> http://en.oppo.com/products/n1/
<ali1234> found it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKUPBr0eY6Y
<czajkowski> aloha
<davmor2> ali1234: it's still not as good as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiYuq6Ac3a0
<ali1234> damn that's the cheesiest thing i've ever heard
<mgdm> hah, that's awesome
<davmor2> ali1234: I know but best of it is it's still in my head from my amiga days so 26+ ish years
<davmor2> but then so is agggaddddoooo do do, the chicken song, land of make believe etc
<mgdm> Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-VJeVPeawk
<davmor2> mgdm: We have a bad taste music playoff from time to time I always seem to win I don't know why :D
<SuperMatt> so... surface 2. Do we think that surface failed because no one really wanted an ARM device, especially not business, which is who would normally buy up all this stuff
<mgdm> Also Win8 is pants, Win8 RT is pants squared
<davmor2> mgdm: hey that's not fair.... pant are useful
<SuperMatt> but win8 isn't pants for tablets
<SuperMatt> well
<SuperMatt> actually I don't know that for sure
<SuperMatt> because no one actually owns one, so I can't tell
<mgdm> it is
<mgdm> heh
<mgdm> we have some in here. if you need to do anything remotely fiddly to your network settings, you get dumped into the desktop
<davmor2> SuperMatt: I do it has the same issues as the desktop version only you can touch the screen,  so all the things that users hate about the desktop version are equally as bad on the tablet version
<SuperMatt> it is a bit lols in server 2013 that you have the start screen but *everything* you do dumps you back to the desktop
<davmor2> SuperMatt: and that is the issue on the desktop version and the tablet version
<SuperMatt> here's hoping canonical get the convergence thing right
<davmor2> SuperMatt: It's certainly better :)
<SuperMatt> yarr, not trying to directly map everything from tablet to desktop and vice versa seems to be the right way to go
<SuperMatt> man, I haven't had vice versas for a long time
<SuperMatt> do those still exist?
<ali1234> pants for tablets?
<ali1234> like, tablet pants?
<SuperMatt> yeah, sure
<SuperMatt> something like that
<ali1234> http://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thumbs/ipad-2-tactical-pants.jpeg
<ali1234> oh btw not everything in win8 dumps you to the desktop. try setting up a VPN. it would be better if it did, but it's all metro
<davmor2> ali1234: no but any app that you add that isn't from microsofts store pretty much dumps you into desktop mode, and then so do most of the commonly used windows apps, device manager, update manager, control panel, cmd, etc etc
<ali1234> yeah but as soon as you click things in control panel it takes you to the ridiculous metro sidebar thing
<ali1234> constant ping ponging all over the place
<ali1234> it's horrible
<davmor2> ali1234: indeed this was my point, don't compare it to pants, pants are useful
<ali1234> yes, see image ^
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://www.buzzfeed.com/benrosen/6-castles-that-cost-less-than-an-apartment-in-nyc
<Myrtti> suddenly I feel really good about renting my studio flat in the Finnish burbs
<directhex> i feel really good about large quantities of premium rum
 * mungbean made it home safely
 * davmor2 think that is just the rum talking directhex 
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/117421627/the-peachy-printer-the-first-100-3d-printer-and-sc
<popey> *boggle*
<mungbean> directhex: did you notice your box.net account is now 100GB ?
<directhex> mungbean, no. i am still not a real user of cloud storage
<Myrtti> popey: huhwhat
<Myrtti> popey: did I read the price right?
<popey> indeed
<mgdm> popey: I've heard it said that photosensitive resin is the way forward for 3D stuff
<mgdm> and that the reprap-style extrusion thing is a bit of a hack :-)
<directhex> all 3d printing is price-limited by fiercely guarded patents
<mungbean> directhex: i'm tempted to use it for storing large encrypted tar files though
<mgdm> I've heard also that some of those expire soon
<mungbean> who owns the patents?
<directhex> 3D Systems Inc, i think
<mungbean> i should have stayed in bed today. kettle blew up, power went out, smashed my favourite 18 yrs old pint glass, cut my finger, spent rest of time in the bathroom with stomach upset, scary journey home
<mungbean> now back in bed
<directhex> related note: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20434031
<ali1234> have formlabs actually sold any of those printers?
<ali1234> if not, how can they have infringed any patents?
<mgdm> thoughtcrime, if you believe the lawyers
<ali1234> it looks like they have sold some
<ali1234> the campaign ended a year ago and they were supposed to ship in march
<directhex> what kind of deviant works at the patent office? well, one patent office worker helped develop nukes, which killed millions. *that* kind of deviant.
<mgdm> heh
<mungbean> so, i'm uploading some personal stuff to a cloud provider for backup purposes, maybe 2GB files at a time, what the best way i should encrypt them?
<SuperMatt> you can create a bunch of 2GB truecrypt containers
<mgdm> I'd probably just use tarballs and gpg 'em
<mgdm> unless you really want a pile of filesystems
<mungbean> yeah, thinking of GPG
 * SuperMatt starts throwing things at his PC
<SuperMatt> it's been a couple of days now and I *still* can't get lxc bridged networking to work
<diddledan> that's never healthy
<SuperMatt> I don't know if I'm missing something/the implementation is broken/doing it in a bunch of vms is what's causing the issue
<daftykins> lxc?
<SuperMatt> linux containers
<davmor2> SuperMatt: I think iirc stgraber did a video on youtube for that let me have a dig for you
<diddledan> daftykins: it's a more compatible system akin to openvz
<davmor2> daftykins: somewhere between a chroot and a full blown vm.   Chroot on steroids :)
<diddledan> uses standard linuxy tech such as process groups and the like
<daftykins> oh that sort of software segmentation thing
<daftykins> ja
<SuperMatt> basically it's a form of virtualisation that doesn't virtualise the *whole* machine, instead it uses your kernel, a chroot and a virtualised network interface
<SuperMatt> so it has less overheads
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> vaguely read of, sounds fun
<SuperMatt> but you're limited to that version of the kernel, you can't virtualise another OS
<directhex> SuperMatt, have you ever done bridge networking?
<SuperMatt> I thought I had, but maybe I really actually haven't
<SuperMatt> I used to bridge networks for virtualbox and kvm
<SuperMatt> but I'm not doing anything different this time around
<directhex> brctl show ?
<SuperMatt> unless it's that different thing I'm now doing wrong
<SuperMatt> 'ang on
<SuperMatt> gonna have to do some crazy weird stuff now to be able to paste in my brctl
<diddledan> brctl show | pastebinit
<SuperMatt> sure sure
<SuperMatt> ok, give me a second while I rejig stuff to how ti was
<SuperMatt> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6146010
<directhex> that looks weird
<SuperMatt> it does?
<diddledan> looks normal to me
<ali1234> does anyone know a java program that puts an icon in the system tray (the legacy gnome one) and is in the repos?
<SuperMatt> there's some download managers
<SuperMatt> I think
<SuperMatt> can't remember which one
<directhex> SuperMatt, well, depends on what ethernet device the lxc interfaces get attached to. if it's lxcbr0 then that bridges to nothing, so goes nowhere
<SuperMatt> no, it's connecting to br0
<SuperMatt> or at least it should be
<SuperMatt> I wonder if it's being superseeded by what's in /etc/lxc.config
<diddledan> lxcbr0 is usually a NATted service
<SuperMatt> yarr
<diddledan> hence why it bridges to nowy
<diddledan> nowt*
<SuperMatt> lemme try editing the default lxc config
<daftykins> heh, seems the same as all virt i use, i turn off the NAT setup entirely :D
<SuperMatt> yeah, don't want nat ;)
<SuperMatt> I've got a very specific set up in mind which requires the power of lxc
<SuperMatt> ali1234: ignore my java download thingy idea, there's got to be something better
<ali1234> yeah i know jdownloader puts an icon in the tray but it's not in the repos
<SuperMatt> that's the one I was thinking of
<ali1234> and it causes a bug, but in order to report bug i must be able to reproduce it with repository software :P
<SuperMatt> still hasn't worked :(
<SuperMatt> I'm pretty damn certain that the container is using eth0
<SuperMatt> what's stp and should it be on?
<diddledan> stp = spanning tree protocol
<mgdm> you probably don't need it there
<SuperMatt> I wonder if *maybe* this VM I'm doing my testing in just can't handle the almighty power of lxc network bridging
<SuperMatt> but of course, I don't really like testing something like bridging on the network proper
<davmor2> SuperMatt: there is this in the serverguide to stgraber get back to me :) https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/lxc.html
<SuperMatt> yeah, I've been through this :(
<SuperMatt> it's working!
<SuperMatt> I had to turn of permiscuous mode in virtualbox
<SuperMatt> thanks for your help guys :)
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> promiscuous? what kind of setting was that?
<daftykins> network adapter mode?
<mgdm> yes
<SuperMatt> ah, I also had to have stp on
<mgdm> it sets a NIC to receive all traffic going past, not ust that destined for it (wireshark and tcpdump use this, for example)
<daftykins> ah yes
<SuperMatt> I *think* that outside virtualbox I wouldn't actually need it
<daftykins> mgdm: indeed, i think that was a driver element for waaaaaaay back in the day WEP cracking XD
<daftykins> though obviously with wireless adapters. i tend to be more on vmware than virtualbox
<popey> ooh http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/
<daftykins> controversial indeed
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<DJones> Hmmh, wonderng whether to buy one of the new Tesco Tablets as a surprise for my wife
<daftykins> i'd be concerned about OS support in the future
<popey> Surpsie! Here's something that won't get any updates!
<popey> *surprise
<DJones> To be honest, I'm not sure she'd notice that
<DJones> What else is there thats comparable on a price basis
<awilkins> SteamOS
<awilkins> Oops, totally out of context
<awilkins> So, SteamOS is Ubuntu with a skin, right?
<daftykins> DJones: i just mean in terms or it having some longevity y'know?
<popey> I fully expect my nexus 7 to stop getting updates soon
<DJones> daftykins: Women are meant to expect longevity in electronic devices? Thats a new one on me, she's lucky to get a phone that works all trhough its contract
<ali1234> SteamOS... do believe i predicted that one
<awilkins> I think we all did when they started porting games to Linux
<awilkins> I always thought "XboxOS" would be a good seller for MS
<ali1234> windows already is that
<awilkins> Yeah, but there's a lot of cruft that you don't need to play the games
<ali1234> anyway... SteamOS won't be ubuntu with a skin
<awilkins> I wonder what the TV stuff will be like
<ali1234> it might well be 12.04 with no UI at all, just a full screen steam client
<ali1234> the TV stuff is already available
<ali1234> it's called big picture
<awilkins> I don't mean the TV oriented UI, I mean MythTV but with Valve paying for developers
<ali1234> video streaming?
<ali1234> they're going to put TV shows on steam then?
<popey> i dont think it says anything about that
<popey> it says "media services you know"
<gordonjcp> oh hell yes
<popey> which basically means hulu and netflix
<ali1234> "Weâre working with many of the media services you know and love. Soon we  will begin bringing them online, allowing you to access your favorite  music and video with Steam and SteamOS."
<gordonjcp> steam + netflix
<gordonjcp> I'll have that, I'll have that *now*
<daftykins> DJones: heh, fair enough.
<popey> yeah, I'd be interested in a box that did all that
<ali1234> it could mean anything from enabling silverlight in the steam browser up to full integration into steam
<ali1234> what i would like to see is a return to the time of games-on-bootable-media
<ali1234> where you buy a memory stick, plug it in, and it boots a preconfigured OS that just works
<ali1234> you don't have to worry about whether the game will still work on the next version of whatever
<ali1234> so this steamOS thingy could be pretty close to that
<awilkins> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<ali1234> is anyone else having this problem with launchpad openid where it doesn't redirect to the page you wanted to log in to?
<ali1234> instead it just stops on a blank page
<davmor2> ali1234: nope, try flushing your cookies for LP
<ali1234> looks like it's a problem with firefox
<ali1234> if i press "view source" on the blank page, and the press "try again" i see the source of the stack exchange site with me logged in
<ali1234> so for some reason firefox redirect is broken
<ali1234> hmm i tried to delete lp cookies and firefox crashed
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> that's no good
<ali1234> well i do hope my profile isn't messed up
<daftykins> that's the first thing i always test :)
<ali1234> hmm got it deleted
<ali1234> now it works
<ali1234> so anyway i just wanted to share this silly question i found on stack exchange: http://movies.stackexchange.com/q/14049/6205
<daftykins> wow.
<daftykins> i've totally pondered that before but i've not felt the need to ask others XD
<daftykins> nor still been puzzled after a few seconds of thought :D
<bigcalm> ali1234: in a recent 8 out of 10 cats does count down, we saw the clock reverse after partly counting down
<quantumpants> hay guys
<zleap> hi
<popey> ali1234: i have seen the countdown clock return
<popey> ali1234: it continues quickly clockwise
<ali1234> answer the question then :)
<ali1234> i just thought it was funny that anyone would care enough to ask on SE
<popey> http://www.ukgameshows.com/ukgs/Countdown
<popey> " The hand moves clockwise all the way round back to the top."
<DJones> Damm, does this mean AlanChicken is suddenly rich http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2425213/Outrage-academics-handed-2m-study-humans-interact-CHICKENS.html
<shauno> steamos looks like it's targetting 12.04.2.  makes sense I guess
<popey> ali1234: it failed to log me in in chromium too
<popey> "Movies & TV Stack Exchange requires cookies for authentication -- are your browser cookies enabled for this domain?"
<ali1234> with launchpad openid?
<gortblast> quit
<bigcalm> Almost
<popey> hm, steambox will be nvidia based?
<MartijnVdS> :(
<bigcalm> I've had more joy with nvidia than ati, so I'm okay with this
<mungbean> where d'ya read that popey ?
<daftykins> bigcalm: +1
<mungbean> i assumed it would be tbh
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: nvidia are annoying about specs, ati aren't.
<popey> libvdpau in their repo
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: broadcom is similar with their wifi chips
<popey> and nvidia drivers and stuff
<mungbean> nvidia have longest history of consistently producing a working driver
<bigcalm> I'm still happy when other people make things work, whatever the hardware :)
<ali1234> making a linux game console with anything other than nvidia would be completely stupid
<daftykins> does steam on Linux provide opengl only, or was there some kind of DirectX hash-up?
<ali1234> but i still think they won't make their own hardware... there will be multiple steamboxes
<daftykins> s/was/is/
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: sure, if you have the money for a proper support contract nvidia is probably very workable
<ali1234> steamOS is for game consoles what android is for phones
<ali1234> daftykins: there's no directX wrapping afaik
<ali1234> it's generally expected that you will use a higher level engine than that anyway
<ali1234> like unity, unreal, source, monogame etc
<popey> looks like steamos is based on 12.04
<ali1234> i have to say that of all the different engines in the games i;ve played on linux, monogame ones are by far the easiest to make work properly. usually it involves nothing at all.
<ali1234> they also seem to be the most likely to run at 60fps, though that might be a result of being targeted at xbox
<shauno> popey, you're poking around the hometest repo?
<popey> yeah
<shauno> trying to figure out what valve-recovery is.  it's quite large & recent, and most the other packages are boring
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> name seems quite self-explanatory
<ali1234> hmm... you know what would be really funny?
<shauno> I'm just nosey because it's over 100meg, making it the largest package by far.  so of course nosey wants to see what's in it :)
<ali1234> if they put all open source software into steam "applications" section
<ali1234> so you could boot steamOS and install gnome
<ali1234> ubuntu would have some serious competition if that happened
<shauno> hm, there you go.  valve-recovery is clonezilla, freedos, and a 90meg squashfs
<daftykins> with all these upcoming changes, i wish Valve would fork the Steam client so we don't have to keep downloading updates for features we don't even use
<daftykins> i guess fork isn't the right term there, but *shrug*
<daftykins> it's annoying to keep downloading updates for Big Picture when i have no intention of using it on my desktop PC :>
<mungbean> hopefully they will use deltas instead of big update packages
<popey> \o/ Ubuntu Touch uses deltas
<daftykins> i'd rather just see different packages
<mungbean> blackberry sold to private company?
<mungbean> where stocks have fallen from a high of $148 in June 2008 and now languish at about $8 a share. On the announcement, BlackBerry stock rose a modest 2% to $8.85 a share, giving the company a market value of $4.65bn.
<daftykins> they be dead at last, but what will emerge?
<popey> they will likely carry on with corporate customers
<popey> rather than consumers
<mungbean> still worth $5b :S
<mungbean> what is this horrific programme
<mungbean> fried chicken shop
<Azelphur> here's a little entertainment for you folks, try and figure out which OS this phone is running http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Black-4-8-smart-phone-with-Android-4-1-high-cost-performance-full-touch-8GB-/221279152193?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones&hash=item338543e841 :P
<daftykins> *click*
<popey> hah
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> wth @ the 'Windows Phone' on the back
<Azelphur> look at the photo with the map on it
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> it's a 3-in-1!
<Azelphur> amazing what they can cram iOS onto these days
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> ;)
<Azelphur> spotted it this morning while on the hunt for interesting cheap android phones
<daftykins> despite your aiming for that, i still cringe @ 512MB RAM
<diddledan> I like that it's listed as "high cost"
<daftykins> heh the seller probably meant "high cost / performance"
<daftykins> someone linked to this in the main channel the other day, seems handy - http://repogen.simplylinux.ch/
<daftykins> default repository generator
<diddledan> that doesn't make it sound any better
<daftykins> i'm sure you guys don't need such things, but meh
<Azelphur> hehe, 512 is actually reasonably ok for most android versions
<Azelphur> my favourite budget phone at current is still the Huawei Ascend Y300 though, The Tesco hudl looks very interesting on the android side, if not the Nexus 7.
<daftykins> not for 4+ :(
<bigcalm> I wonder if I should get Hayley a Hudl. Would it be an improvement over my Xoom 10" tablet that she complains is a little slugish with facebook?
<Azelphur> daftykins: huh?
<Azelphur> bigcalm: which xoom 10" tablet?
<bigcalm> Azelphur: 1st one
<Azelphur> http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_xoom_media_edition_mz505-4307.php this one?
<bigcalm> Azelphur: the specs seem right, yes
<Azelphur> bigcalm: specs actually look ok on that, I'd be inclined to reflash it, get rid of all the motorola crud, it'd probably go a lot faster.
<bigcalm> Maybe so
<bigcalm> It's nice to give one's other half a present though :)
<bigcalm> So that she can use it as her own
<Azelphur> true :)
<Azelphur> bigcalm: the hudl is significantly faster (by around 2x, based on the specs I read) although I haven't looked much into it
<bigcalm> Actually, I think I'll put stock Android on there and see what fun we can get up to
<Azelphur> yea, that's what I'd recommend
<Azelphur> pointless to toss a perfectly good tablet, the specs are still current and respectable.
<bigcalm> I wouldn't toss it. I want a tablet for my own use again ;)
<Azelphur> have a nose over at http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=948 and see if you can find an OS that suits you
<Azelphur> just spotted this, oO http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1138661
<bigcalm> So the Hudl isn't available yet, it's only been announced?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: end of the month apparently
<bigcalm> I see
<AlanBell> wonder how many clubcard vouchers we have
 * bigcalm needs toys to throw money away on
<bigcalm> AlanBell: we've been converting all of our points into Cafe Rouge meals
<popey> I should get an early night. Code Club tomorrow
<bigcalm> Toodles
<AlanBell> we have maybe Â£11.50 in vouchers
<bigcalm> x2 for in-store goods or x4 for Cafe Rouge/Pizza Express
<bigcalm> I know which my tummy would choose
<dogmatic69> yey virgin http://i.imgur.com/9uTT8Rj.png
<daftykins> ^_^
<bigcalm> In the process of making my Xoom a GED. Device is now running 3.1
<bigcalm> This may take some time for all of the updates
<dogmatic69> First time I have ever had broadband that actually matched the advertised speed. sometimes even higher
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: ah, you went for the 120mb connection?
<dogmatic69> 100
<dogmatic69> but often get 110
<bigcalm> Good show
<bigcalm> Got the Tivo as well?
<bigcalm> I haven't managed to convince Hayley that we should get the Tivo upgrade
<dogmatic69> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2987282023.png
<dogmatic69> well I need to order it tbh, cant get sky due to a ~15 story block of flats across the road
<dogmatic69> directly in the line of the sat signals
<bigcalm> I'm on my laptop's wifi at the moment and would get a rubbish result
<dogmatic69> lot of money though, works out at Â£100p/m with broadband
<bigcalm> Ouch
<bigcalm> Torrent everything :P
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> torrented the F1 (gf is still paying sky so its sort of ok I guess) but had no damn sound :/
<dogmatic69> ended up watching the highlights on iplayer
<bigcalm> Xoom now on 3.2.1 and it's time for the next update to install
<bigcalm> Ouch
<bigcalm> Ooo, this update it 81.2MB big. I'm guessing the tablet will now get 4.0.4
<bigcalm> Funky new starting animation, looking good
<bigcalm> I was wrong: 4.0.3
<bigcalm> Now downloading 4.0.4
<bigcalm> And with that I'll be where I was at the start of the evening
<bigcalm> Hope I can go further :)
<bigcalm> Weee, it's downloading 4.1.1
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: has your gf moved to Telford as well?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: yep
<bigcalm> Nice of her :)
<bigcalm> Aww, no more updates after 4.1.2
<bigcalm> I wonder if Google have dropped the Xoom get their GED list
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-24
<Myrtti> aw yisss, new socks have been dispatched
<MooDoo> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just in case anyone uses TB, Lightning & CalDAV I have just discovered that you must change the URL of your calendars in Lightning: https://developers.google.com/google-apps/calendar/caldav/v2/guide#connecting_to_googles_caldav_server
<Myrtti> awwwwwww
<Myrtti> I was told "no XPS 13 for yooo"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Fascinating stuff about Valve: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24205497
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh wow - I'm not a gamer but *this* is very surprising: http://gamingonlinux.com/articles/how-does-left-4-dead-2-perform-on-ubuntu-1304-compared-to-windows-8.2457
<nigelb> 47
<nigelb> (gah)
<TheOpenSourcerer> 53
<MartijnVdS> 329
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mornington Crescent!
<directhex> numberwang!
<MartijnVdS> let's rotate the board!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mungbean> interesting. doctors surgery is on the phone to discuss a post she wrote on a mums facebook page
 * popey wonders why his printer doesn't default to "reverse, collate" when printing multiple page documents
<MartijnVdS> popey: what does it default to?
<popey> neither
<popey> so you end up with everything in the wrong order
<popey> i.e. face up, last page on top
<MartijnVdS> popey: you should be able to set the defaults for that in the system-config-printer settings thingy
<popey> sure
<popey> but it should be default for multi-page docs
<MartijnVdS> is yours an inkjet printer?
<TheOpenSourcerer> File a bug
<popey> yes
<MartijnVdS> I'd agree with TheOpenSourcerer then, file a bug on the PPD
<popey> ok, good, consensus â»
<popey> not sure the ppd is right
<popey> maybe on cups itself
<MartijnVdS> popey: cups knows all it knows about the printer from the ppd
<AlanBell> not all printers put the paper face up in the output tray
<popey> true
<MartijnVdS> popey: you should be able to find a copy of /etc/cups/ppd/yourprinter.ppd in /usr/share/ppd somewhere
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> maybe they're installed on demand these days
<MartijnVdS> the PPD is probably downloaded as needed from openprinting, unless the printer is HP?
<popey> yeah, HP
<MartijnVdS> I'd file the bug on cups. I can't find where/how PPDs are created/retrieved.
 * popey adds to to-do
<MartijnVdS> maybe hplip then
<AlanBell> anyone understand the fedora/redhat merger thing?
<popey> the what?
<AlanBell> ah, hang on
<popey> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2003-September/msg00137.html
<popey> looks like a piss take
<AlanBell> yeah, I failed to spot the year
<popey> also, 10 years â»
<AlanBell> I fail
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Punctuation Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: @&(*!$(&&!$&^&@
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, you were waiting for that, weren't you? :-P
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: maybe..
<mungbean> ))
<mungbean> didn't like to see those brackets hanging
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: nah, it was valid Perl code before
<Myrtti> huh
<Myrtti> google+ is confusing
<MooDoo> why?
<Myrtti> editing a post turns the reference to a person into numbers?
<Myrtti> *squint*
<MartijnVdS> probably their account id, maybe they deleted their account?
<popey> i think G+ is a bit broken today
<Myrtti> what I don't also like is that the notificiations don't seem to change the title anymore
<Myrtti> so if I get notifications, I don't notice it from the tab anymore
<directhex> spotify.
<bigcalm> Is wonderful?
<directhex> it's the first ~confirmed part of the steamos "Weâre working with many of the media services you know and love. Soon we will begin bringing them online, allowing you to access your favorite music and video with Steam and SteamOS." feature
<bigcalm> Oh
<mungbean> video?
<bigcalm> Using the unofficial official 'Linux Preview'?
<mungbean> is steamos just gonna turn into a media centre?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It could do to the home/living room tech what Android has done to mobile.
<mungbean> wireless streaming to various rooms
<popey> i suspect the spotify will be the web based one
<mungbean> of games and video
<popey> not the fat client
<mungbean> i'd liek to fast forward 2-3 years and see what will happen
<TheOpenSourcerer> Giving the OS away "potentially" offers device makers a platform similar the way Andriod is used. Lots of innovation possible in the home without having to re-invent the wheel for an OS...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Of course there are lots of unknowns right now but if Valve get this right it could be very disruptive.
<MooDoo> love the link you posted about their work ethic TheOpenSourcerer very interesting....no managers
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - was interesting.
<directhex> popey, there's a load of spotify-related functions built into the beta steam client's libsteam
<MooDoo> loved reading the handbook :) lo
<popey> ah of course, they can use the libs
<directhex> http://marlamin.com/u/2013-09-22_15-43-29_13421753.png
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, in the short term, i think the most "at risk" competition is things like Ouya, depending on price point
<directhex> android home consoles with ARM, or steamos home consoles with x86...
<MooDoo> what's steamos going to be based on?  won't it have to be some windows variant if it wants to run all the games or am I missing something?
 * directhex grumbles about NOBODY KNOWING HOW TO READ
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's Linux
<shauno> looks like 12.04.2 so far
<directhex> steamos is a linux system, probably a debbuntu derivative given current data
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: so it's going to limited to not that many games then?
 * directhex grumbles about NOBODY KNOWING HOW TO READ again
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/
<MooDoo> ah ok thanks
<directhex> MooDoo, linux-only games, OR can play windows games if a windows-based pc is booted on the same network
<MooDoo> directhex: stop grumbling ;)
<directhex> and apparently AAA games on linux are being announced "in the coming weeks"
<TheOpenSourcerer> "With SteamOS, âopennessâ means that the hardware industry can iterate in  the living room at a much faster pace than theyâve been able to.  Content creators can connect directly to their customers. Users can  alter or replace any part of the software or hardware they want."
<MooDoo> AAA games?    they premum titles
<shauno> it's a bit more of an incentive for content providers to get their ducks in a row too
<directhex> MooDoo, AAA is an industry term for "games with an expensive advertising budget"
<directhex> MooDoo, which typically means "games we spent a lot of money on, so we are funding them to do well"
<directhex> if you see a TV advert and a bus advert for a game, it's AAA
<directhex> the term has leaked a bit and is used by non-industry people to mean "a really well-polished game", but this is a frequent correlation, not the actual meaning
<directhex> the idea being, game shops have limited shelf space, so they only want to stock games that will sell well. more ads = sell better, so industry magazine adverts are targeted at shops - "our game has an AAA Â£20m advertising budget across cinema, TV, and print"
<directhex> many excellent games are not AAA, and many AAA games are terrible - but they're always the "big name" games everyone knows about. the grand theft autos, etc
<MooDoo> so hopefully that's bioshock infinitethen
<directhex> MooDoo, that sort of game. although i deeply deeply doubt it at this point.
<MooDoo> ah well lol
<directhex> MooDoo, it is reasonable to speculate about which wealthy publisher is on board (only the well-off publishers can afford AAA advertising budgets)
<mungbean> all wealthy publishers should be investing 10% in risky but potentially explosive markets
<mungbean> i don't even think steamos is risky
<directhex> MooDoo, i think 2K are unlikely, as they *mostly* don't do their own mac ports, especially of the bioshock series. they sell the rights to make a port to third parties (aspyr media, feral interactive), who do the port themselves & sell through their own networks (i.e. not steam)
<MooDoo> I think unless they get all titles working on it, it's just going to be a glorified media server which there are plenty of them already
<directhex> a publisher without in-house mac ports is not a good bet for a producer of steamos ports, imho
<popey> I need to learn the basics of git/github
<AlanBell> github has good tutorials
<popey> I just need to submit a few lines of change to an existing project
<directhex> i think koch media (deep silver) is on board, but i don't know how far they'll go
<directhex> i.e. metro last light is coming, but is only one game. can they port saint's row 4, or is there too much legacy windows-only tech in that engine?
<mungbean> i wish this actually happened http://imgur.com/gallery/Y3dfB5l
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<mungbean> always more productive working from home
<directhex> WFH is hard.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It is when the kids are at home.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And the wife for that matter
<directhex> or generally. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_fever
<mungbean> oh yeah, wife is out this morning
<mungbean> will be different later
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh: http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/innovate/developers/minecraft-map-britain.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> Think my kids will be interested in this. ^--^
<directhex> the baby gave the ps3 remote a swim. do i buy a replacement, or just put up with using a joypad for navigating blu-rays?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: how often do you do it?
<MartijnVdS> I mean, if you use it once a month, don't bother buying a new remote
<mungbean> directhex: what's cheaper, ps3 remote or blue ray player?
<mungbean> you don't play games on it then?
<directhex> um, Â£20 versus more than Â£20?
<directhex> and yes, i play games with it, but a joypad is a terrible input mechanism for many tasks
<mungbean> ah, i misunderstood, there's a ps3 remote control dooberie
<mungbean> i had one for the ps2 but didn't really work for me
<mungbean> had to press buttons too hard
<MartijnVdS> I have a "converter box" for my Logitech Harmony
<MartijnVdS> Harmony (IR) -> Box (IR) -> PS3 (BT)
<mungbean> i've got a multifunction remote that i've never used cos it drinks batteries
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i have that minecraft map on my home server â»
<TheOpenSourcerer> Now why does that not surprise me in the slightest popey?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have just mailed that link to my kids - no doubt I will be recruited later to get in on their server...
<ali1234> i take it that isn't to scale
<MooDoo> o/ minecraft :)
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/2013-09-24_10.55.53.png
<popey> cowes, isle of wight
<mungbean> mincecraft is still $20
<ali1234> i only paid $15 for it
<MooDoo> my son is just getting into it :)  I've set up a feed the beast server for him :)
<mungbean> thought they were gonna make it free at some point
<mungbean> acording to an AMA i read
<ali1234> no.
<ali1234> they are making it more expensive over time
<mungbean> sux
<mungbean> what about the rpi minecraft?
<ali1234> yeah that is free
<MartijnVdS> pinecraft!
<mungbean> whats the difference between rpi and full fat MC?
<Laney> mmm picraft
<Laney> chicken and leek please
<directhex> supported world size & complexity
<ali1234> minecraft is still way too flat
<directhex> it's cut down from the smartphone version
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> the smartphone version is a tiny world tho
<directhex> since the pi is a cut down smartphone...
<directhex> "Minecraft Pi Edition is very similar to Pocket Edition in many ways. Like Pocket Edition, there are still barrier walls, the player skin is always the default skin, but you can change this by replacing the char.png photo in the games files, and the title screen and the world selection screen were the same until Minecraft Pocket Edition updated to 0.7.0. There are also Cyan Flowers like in Pocket Edition. So far there is only Creative mode
<directhex>  available. The player has various blocks and items only seen in Pocket Edition, like, The Nether Reactor Core, and the Stone Cutter.
<directhex> The player has the ability to sneak, but not sprint. Currently, there is no mob spawning, even though the player starts with an Iron Sword in hand. The Bow is also available, but when used, the player will hold the Bow back infinitely until the player selects another item or logs off."
<ali1234> is there PvP?
<ali1234> because that would be funny to start the kids out with swords and nothing to kill but each other
<ali1234> in a supposedly educational game
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/2013-09-24_11.04.05.png farnborough
<mungbean> i thought i read something about it being educational
<davmor2> Morning all
<ali1234> ok by my reckoning it's 25:1 scale
<popey> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/preview#!q=farnborough&data=!1m4!1m3!1d49175!2d-0.7366553!3d51.2903499!4m10!1m9!4m8!1m3!1d790997!2d-1.3433106!3d51.0448291!3m2!1i1871!2i946!4f13.1
<popey> looks about right
<ali1234> anyone seen that game that turns google earth data into a first person exploration game?
<ali1234> in 1:1 scale. and it looks like skyrim quality graphics
<ali1234> let me try to find it...
<directhex> "everquest next" is basically minecraft with high-end graphics
<ali1234> http://www.outerra.com/index.html
<ali1234> (not really a game but an engine)
<brobostigon> this is weird, in the play store under ingress it says the versio nis 1.35.1, however in the 'whats new' it says the most recent versio nis 1.36.0, and no update option, very weird.
<popey> it updates internally doesn't it?
<brobostigon> ingress's boot screen says 1.35.1
<ali1234> "just because I don't like it, it doesn't mean I will refuse to use it or buy it." - an apple user
<ali1234> lol
<mungbean> integrity FTW
<MartijnVdS> whoa
<MartijnVdS> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2013-September/014480.html
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: nice!
<mungbean> so, my mrs has a generic rant about doctors surgery on facebook, no names mentioned. gets a call from the practice because a doctor had flagged it up with the practice. isn't there some data protection issue there?
<mungbean> she didn't identify the practice
<popey> how is there?
<daftykins> DP doesn't come into it
<daftykins> this is why i keep trying to tell my mother not to comment on businesses etc. on facebook
<daftykins> she's fallen for that illusion of anonymity =/
<mungbean> because how do you make the connection between the person and the particular doctors practice?
<mungbean> there are 10s of surgeries in our local area
<daftykins> still, i'd call issue with your Mrs before trying to see who on the other side did something wrong
<daftykins> bbl
<mungbean> its nothing she wouldn't have said in a direct complaint, just intrigued that somebody joined the dots using private patient data
<popey> maybe her generic rant wasn't as generic as you think
<popey> and people in the industry can connect the dots
<mungbean> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944
<SuperMatt> I wouldn't be surprised if a GP or whatever looked to see if there was anything interesting on people's facebook profiles
<SuperMatt> after all, Dr. House told us everybody lies
<SuperMatt> and maybe the GP wanted to check something out
<mungbean> it was in a closed group, but yes, i think a GP saw it and wanted to get to the bottom of the story
<mungbean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1dv28W9KFs
<mungbean> get excited by these games but too foten they are too boring/hard
<Myrtti> maybe it's lupus
<mungbean> looking at you il-2
<mungbean> $5K to have your voice in the game as a pilot
<diddledan> you know what the "ubuntu ecosystem" is missing? movies! we need proprietary ubuntu drm :-p
<mgdm> Just use Ogg. Few enough things play that it's basically DRM... </troll>
<mungbean> sucks that you can't choose safesearch for youtube videos, but keep comments
<mungbean> spooky, checking my google dashboard and i was a member of one group only - some dodgy islamist site that had been banned. not the sort of thing you accidentally click on
<diddledan> mungbean: are you planning a jihad against dodgy islamist sites?
<diddledan> if not then I'm assuming you're what "the west" is fighting against :-p
<mungbean> i'm wondering if i got added to the group
<mungbean> i get a lot of misaddressed email
<diddledan> "misaddressed" can still be cause for police investigations :-p
<diddledan> "so then mr... 'achmed'" .. "no, I'm not mr achmed, it's misaddressed. I'm mr mungbean.. honest guv"
<diddledan> osama is still alive and is hiding in mungbean 's cellar :-p
<diddledan> hence all the misaddressed mail
<mungbean> i didn't even know i had a cellar
<diddledan> that's what the bad people _want_ you to think
<mungbean> who are the bad people, again?
<diddledan> good question.
<diddledan> bad invariably refers to those that the establishment doesn't like
<diddledan> e.g. the bad people in syria are the rebellious mob
<mungbean> "let's arm them all" :)
<mungbean> that bin laden fella, he's against the russians, let give him all the guns he needs.
<diddledan> the bad people in syria from our perspective is the establishment
<mungbean> tbh i haven't followed syria at all, gave up watching news on account of it permanently being depressing and/or talking about politic(ian)s
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> syria has told everyone it has WMDs now (chemical variety) and even showed them off to the UN
<diddledan> blocked ear sucks
<mungbean> too scared to put olive oil in my ear when it does that
<mungbean> WFH def means more irc chat for me..:S
<diddledan> I keep forgetting but I've got some of that fancy otex stuff
<diddledan> ditto
<mungbean> isn't that just saline?
<kecskebak> Otex is really just Hydrogen Peroxide.
<mungbean> so don't get it on your hair?
<kecskebak> White ear hair - very fashionable :)
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> does it make it grow, too :-p
<kecskebak> Why, do you want to do a comb-over?
<mungbean> http://www.forbes.com/sites/terokuittinen/2013/09/24/nokia-admits-giving-misleading-information-about-elops-compensation/
<diddledan> *click*
<mungbean> who would be a shareholder in nokia post elop?
<Myrtti> well
<Myrtti> AFAIK NSN was and is the breadwinner anyway
<Myrtti> which is funny because not so long ago it was the moneyhole
<Myrtti> you pick is it because mobiles went down, or networks went up
<diddledan> NSN?
<Myrtti> former Nokia Siemens Networks
<diddledan> I don't know all these acronyms
<diddledan> aaha
<Myrtti> Nokia Solutions and Networks nowadays when Siemens was bought out
<diddledan> even systems are undewr pressure from huawei though
<Myrtti> sure
<diddledan> yey for the british infrastructure being run by communist hardware
<Myrtti> but then again Huawei will not be getting big (or any) orders from USA etc.
<Myrtti> if I've understood things right
<diddledan> I think you're right there
<diddledan> though britain seems in entirely the opposite boat
<diddledan> large contracts are being handed to huawei for core systems
<Myrtti> that's just mad
<diddledan> chinaland knows more about our internet and backend infrastructure than the people that run the stuff
<mungbean> allegedly
<Myrtti> and people still are in a huff because NSN gear and solutions allow law enforcement to get information about people
<diddledan> allegedly
<Myrtti> of course they can
<diddledan> :-p
<Myrtti> haven't you seen CSI?
<Myrtti> triangulation location etc
<diddledan> wait, CSI is reals?
<diddledan> are the fancy graphics they use for visualisation real too? :-p
<mgdm> I thought the fact people triangulated off cell towers was common knowledge and farily obvious
<diddledan> mgdm: if they didn't then the mobile network wouldn't work
<Myrtti> it's not even a secret it's possible. People were told here only this week that the elderly should have a mobile phone with them so if they get lost it's easier to find it
<Myrtti> them
<Myrtti> even
<Myrtti> mgdm: so did I
<diddledan> did anybody see the CSI where they used "photosynth" from microsoft to recreate a walkthroughable image of a crime scene based on photos downloaded off mobile phones from the time of the murd0r?
<mgdm> somewhat related: https://twitter.com/medialab/status/382513201948405760
<diddledan> that .. blew .. my .. mind
<diddledan> :-p
<mgdm> diddledan: I don't watch CSI due to how wrong they are :P (Photosynth is pretty cool though)
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0suot89qXY4
<mungbean> MS get in so many programmes
<mungbean> (US ones)
<mungbean> as "sponsors"
<mungbean> i hate product placement
<mungbean> watching under the dome, and i'm saying "ok, enough MS advertising, please get on with the programme". mrs mungbean says, oh i didn't notice
<davmor2> mgdm: oh so you watch no tv then, they are all wrong :P
<mgdm> davmor2: that's almost true :-) But there are degrees of wrong, and then there's "not even wrong" :)
<davmor2> mgdm: :D
<diddledan> I call shenanigans :-p
<mungbean> made my GPG key password when my child was 2 months old. not a good idea. can't remember it
<SuperMatt> keepassx ftw
<diddledan> apple keyboards are awesomesauce if you don't mind the non-standard uk layout
<diddledan> SuperMatt: I use lastpass
<diddledan> although keepass sounds friendlier to my sensibilities as a FOSS advocate
<diddledan> FOSS advocate who is currently on an OS X system
<mungbean> i use keeppassx
<diddledan> full disclosure and all that
<mungbean> but lack of sleep prevented me from doing the right thing
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> yeah, a 2month-old would likely cause those symptoms
<mungbean> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/advice/10323191/Can-I-install-Windows-XP-on-a-new-PC.html
<mungbean> terrible advice
<SuperMatt> very very bad advice
<mungbean> IT advice columns in the mass media are usually terrible
<mungbean> MS says: "Support for Windows XP is ending on April 8, 2014. There's no better time than now to get a new Windows 8 PC"
<mungbean> and post a link to buy a PC
<diddledan> "your pc won't stop working in april" but it will stop being secure, however who cares about such trivialities as security on a home pc?!
<diddledan> </troll?
<popey> .. running a 13 year old OS...
<SuperMatt> feature request: when changing the desktop background, all apps should fade out so you can see it, then fade back in for a second, or maybe a "quick hide" button which, with a single click, hides all desktop stuff and then shows everything after a couple of seconds
<popey> XP wasn't too bad
<SuperMatt> 7 is definitely where it's at right now
<mungbean> OS with compliant web browsers are where its at
<mungbean> fortunately
<SuperMatt> hah, very true
<mungbean> thanks android
<SuperMatt> which is basically anything with the latest firefox
<SuperMatt> because firefox is where it's at
<diddledan> I'm an IE fanboi
<diddledan> IE FTW!!
<diddledan> my job is >50% working on IE which means it's by far the most important browser in the world
<SuperMatt> I saw an IE video the other day, trying to get people to fall back in love with it. None of the features they showed were either 1) related to IE, or 2) IE only
<diddledan> IE6 no more
<diddledan> IE6 is totally gonna take over the world
<diddledan> IE6 is teh skynets
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> I <3 IE6
<diddledan> I *stab stab* <3 IE6
<MartijnVdS> IE6? IT BURNS IT BURNS
<diddledan> anybody see this yet? http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/
<directhex> diddledan, has anyone *not* seen it yet?
<diddledan> I hadn't until about 10 minutes ago :-p
<diddledan> so what's tomorrow's announcement gonna be then? a hardware partner or two? or maybe entering the hardware ecosystem themselves?!
<directhex> diddledan, tomorrow is definitely talking hardware. i don't know for sure if they'll announce partners or their "own" box, but it'll definitely be announcing some specific details, not just a general "hardware will exist"
<popey> see the 4chan thread?
<popey> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-y1Q_Ww4nqyw/UkGmqcnTqfI/AAAAAAAAF4s/eHzeuymqVC4/w1549-h802-no/13+-+1
<popey> nsfw
<popey> (if someone is reading over your shoulder)
<Azelphur> that first post sounds stupid
<Azelphur> #4 is pretty wrong sounding too
<Azelphur> popey: yeeea, that's mostly a load of bull. :)
<diddledan> don't you love how 4chaners try to make themselves sound all big and clever by swearing all the time like an official leak would
<Azelphur> lol
<diddledan> lol @ quit message over on #wordpress: Quit: There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence.
<daftykins> what's the cause when a system will just boot to GRUB and sit there without selecting anything? is it almost a boot failure response?
<daftykins> it's ruining the user experience for some HTPC setups i have in several places
<diddledan> daftykins: I've only ever noticed it after interrupting the previous boot
<daftykins> yeah, it didn't come up on my clients TV so i told him to pull the power
<diddledan> daftykins: I don't know whether it's intended behaviour or not
<daftykins> seems like new behaviour compared with in the past though? this is a 12.10 install *kind of*
<diddledan> yeah it seemed to appear (anecdotal!) around the same time the menu got hidden by default
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> maybe i shall try the main channel too to see if anyone knows why
<daftykins> i'd rather it were oblivious to prior failures so the HTPC can continue to operate in an appliance style, of course
<daftykins> http://www.freshleafmedia.co.uk/blog/ubuntu-server-12-stuck-at-the-grub-boot-menu-waiting-for-key-press/2013/05/
<daftykins> ah-har
<AlanBell> daftykins: that really should be a default on the server shouldn't it!
<daftykins> AlanBell: server?
<daftykins> oh for that guy's setup
<daftykins> indeed!
<AlanBell> if you are installing Ubuntu Server then you want it to always reliably boot headless to networking + SSH, whatever the problem
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> in my case it's an HTPC though, but same intention
<daftykins> this could almost be considered a default configuration 'bug
<daftykins> '
<AlanBell> probably
<AlanBell> I think it is a more useful difference than the kernel clock tick speed
<jpds> AlanBell / daftykins: GRUB is configured to halt if the kernel failed for whatever reason beforehand.
<daftykins> jpds: yeah, we got that. hence the link
<daftykins> but that's not really a good choice imo
<jpds> Why not?
<jpds> What if the default kernel keeps panicking on boot?
<daftykins> what if it doesn't :D
<jpds> GRUB â kernel â panic â reboot â GRUB â kernel â panic â reboot â â
<ali1234> whye xactly is that a problem?
<daftykins> yep but in which case you know to interact with the system don't you
<jpds> daftykins: Then GRUB should never appear.
<daftykins> because it's never coming up
<daftykins> ali1234: HTPCs i have setup for clients, if the interrupt is booted, end up sat on GRUB waiting for enter to be pressed on the default kernel - it's a bit of a pain :)
<AlanBell> picking a different kernel would be a plausible course of action
<ali1234> you sell linux HTPCs?
<AlanBell> anything without a keyboard that will wait on bootup for a keypress is going to be waiting a long time
<ali1234> the sensible thing to do would be to *check for a keyboard*
<directhex> press f1 to continue!
<daftykins> ali1234: no, not sell
<daftykins> but i set up a discless film collection setup for a client with 1,000+ films on DVD and otherwise
<Azelphur> Anyone familiar with how to set up chrooted SFTP only accounts?
<Azelphur> I'm looking at http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/chroot-users-with-openssh-an-easier-way-to-confine-users-to-their-home-directories/ but worried it might be outdated
<Azelphur> if I mess my SSH server up, I loose access to my box (dedicated server that I have no physical access to), so need to get it right.
<daftykins> i played with scponly once? didn't go as far as the chroot though
<daftykins> test in a VM? :)
<Azelphur> ah, I need chroot so they can only access certain areas
<Azelphur> maybe
<ali1234> Azelphur: chroot has not changed
<Azelphur> ali1234: well one thing I notice is that in my /etc/ssh/sshd_config I already have a subsystem sftp line
<ali1234> yes of course you do
<ali1234> you have to make a new one inside the chroot
<Azelphur> so I add a second one?
<ali1234> actually that's not true
<Azelphur> ali1234: care to elaborate?
<ali1234> the line tells which command to use for sftp
<ali1234> using the internal one presumably means you don;t need to set up a real chroot
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> ali1234: so I do need to replace the existing subsystem sftp line?
<Azelphur> since it's using /usr/lib/openssh/ftp-server
<ali1234> this is actually what the instructions say
<Azelphur> I'm not really understanding what they are saying, hense asking
<Azelphur> it says either, so I guess it's either or
<Azelphur> as I said, I'm asking because I want to be sure, rather than guess and loose access to my box.
<daftykins> if only you had an ace VPS like bigv.io where you can get in remotely even if networking is snafu'd
<Azelphur> daftykins: indeed, then I could have nowhere near enough CPU time to do what I want! :P
<Azelphur> but yea it'd help if we were less vague, as I say this isn't a scenario where I can learn from my mistakes.
<daftykins> yaaaay
<daftykins> well why is trialling a VM impossible to start with? then taking the lessons learnt there to the live system?
<Azelphur> daftykins: I guess I could, would have to install a vm software, and then a full OS, just to get an answer to a yes/no question though :p
<daftykins> isn't there that funky free VM spinup service online 0o
<daftykins> i remember the Linux Action Show talking about it
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> I guess I'll take a stab and see what happens, I have a rather ugly way of getting back in if push comes to shove.
<daftykins> ^_^
<ali1234> dedicated servers without remote console?
<Azelphur> ali1234: yup, no remote console, if I loose access it's remote hands.
<ali1234> that's really bad
<diddledan> my dedicated server (at hetzner) has a weird vkvm system that you can use to boot the installed os via a kvm layer
<diddledan> (in case you locked yourself out)
<diddledan> alternatively they provide time-shared console-over-ip called LARA
<ali1234> yeah
<diddledan> I can't complain though.. they're well priced for what theuy offer
<diddledan> google+ just popped up an article by stuff mag that says : Warning: your smartphone is about to explode â scattering its parts all over you, in the form of wearable tech: http://bit.ly/1alyH7e
<diddledan> so what do ya'll think of the galaxy gear?
<ali1234> trans-humanism ftw
<diddledan> yey for google undercutting itunes
<quantumpants> Hi guys
<daftykins> hi
<Azelphur> how do I set a folder such that when you create a file in it, it's automatically owned by a specific user/group?
<directhex> Azelphur, mode +s
<directhex> Azelphur, so g+s for files in a folder to inherit group permissions on creation
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> directhex: for bonus points, writable by group?
<directhex> Azelphur, if it's g+w and g+s, then g+w is carried
<Azelphur> directhex: nope
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/iXAQPc9f
<diddledan> Azelphur: the file can't preexist
<Azelphur> it doesn't, I created it on line 2
<diddledan> oic, it's the lack of +w that's the problem
<diddledan> your umask still applies to created files
<Azelphur> I see, recommended way of fixing?
<diddledan> although afaik that is wrong - it _should_ behave as directhex suggests
<diddledan> you can try setting `umask 004` (I think that's the right number
<Azelphur> isn't 004 read, other?
<diddledan> it's a mask, not a permission
<Azelphur> oh ok then
<diddledan> so you subtract from 7 to get the final value
<diddledan> so I'm wrong - 002
<diddledan> 777 - 002 = 775
<Azelphur> no luck :(
<diddledan> so with that umask the file should be created with permissions 775
<diddledan> or 664 - I'm unclear what necessitates subtracting the execute bit on files vs folders
<mungbean> watching a programme that looks like its a vhs recording :-|
<diddledan> mungbean: awesome!
<diddledan> mungbean: livestream? :-p
<diddledan> let us all revel in the awesomeness that is VHS
<popey> I dug out my VHS player recently
<MartijnVdS> helical tape!
<popey> watched an entire film on it â»
<diddledan> speaking of which. I wired up my super-duper sky+HD box into my super-not-so-duper SD CRT TV
<diddledan> I CAN HAZ TV IN BED NOW! :-p
<popey> We haz no TV in bed here
<mungbean> ah cos mt tv was in auto aspect mode
<popey> Unless one of us takes ipad to bed
<mungbean> need to borrow a remote control with a button to revert the aspect to widescreen premananetly
<diddledan> ipad tv ftw
<diddledan> I like that ipad was used in noun form there, popey .. not THE ipad, but ipad as an entity
<mgdm> we have a variety of iPads at work for testing on
<mgdm> one of them is known as 'iGor'
<mgdm> eg. "have you seen iGor?" "He's over there, charging" etc
<mungbean> wonder if my multifunction remote can emulate the aspect ratio key on an old telly..
<popey> diddledan: it's the correct way to refer to idevices :Ã¾
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> mgdm: :D
<daftykins> iGor has developed a hunch :(
<diddledan> is that pronounced eye-gore or eeee-gore?
<mgdm> eeee-gorr
<daftykins> Asus missed a trick there, with their Eee PC line
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: you know what they were made of?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Eee-ore.,
<diddledan> *groan*
<diddledan> poor pooh
<daftykins> ;)
<popey> hmm... they don't recommend installing both disks of GTA5 on the xbox because it can't stream the textures quickly enough..
<popey> but my xbox360 has an SSD not spinning rust, wonder if that makes it okay.
<MartijnVdS> popey: I guess you could try.. but I don't know if you can uninstall just one disk?
<MartijnVdS> PS3 \o/
<popey> i suspect you can uninstall it entirely
<MartijnVdS> and then re-install just the first disk?
<directhex> popey, how did you get an ssd into it?
<popey> at the back
<popey> there's a drive bay
<directhex> MartijnVdS, erm, the PSN version of gta5 is significantly worse than the blu-ray version, for exactly the same reason, showing exactly the same symptoms
<popey> or am I on crack?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I have the disk version
<popey> pretty sure my 360 has an ssd in it â»
<directhex> MartijnVdS, point is, this isn't something the ps3 avoids
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I don't have 2 disks to jockey ;)
<directhex> 360 version should probably be a bit smoother, in fact - dvd drive in 360 has higher bandwidth than blu-ray drive in ps3
<mungbean> playthrough of first mission in gta5 loks amazing
<MartijnVdS> directhex: It's good enough for me -- finished the game a few days ago :)
<mungbean> wat?
<MartijnVdS> (not 100%, but the story missions)
<mungbean> wow
<mungbean> took time off work/sleep?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: no, just played evenings after work from tue-fri, then all of sat, sun
<MartijnVdS> then I was done ;)
<popey> I dreamed of these kinds of games when I was a kid
<popey> not the violence but the freedom
<MartijnVdS> The very first time I saw GTA 1 in the computer game store (We had one! :)) I wanted it
<mgdm> when I played GTA2 before I didn't bother with the missions, much
<mgdm> I just toured about and occasionally wreaked havoc
<directhex> (72 Mbit/s for 2x BD-ROM, 132.96 Mbit/s for 12x DVD)
<mgdm> there was a quite cool game called Armadillo Run on the PC I had, but I found it more interesting to just play with the physics than to actually complete the levels
<mungbean> i quite enjoyed galloping around in that elder scroll game
<directhex> (this is why in most cases, ps3 games have mandatory installs and 360 games do not)
<popey> yeah, i just run around being mental
<popey> i rarely do the missions
<popey> probably why I like minecraft
<MartijnVdS> you'll love Trevor then ;)
<daftykins> heh switching into Trevor is a rollercoaster in its' own right
<MartijnVdS> also, the missions aren't as annoying anymore, they have checkpoints at sane intevals
<MartijnVdS> +r
<daftykins> and they're fun too!
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: well, some are less fun than others (*cough*Chop*cough*)
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> i don't own an Apple device to get at it so far =/
<daftykins> waiting for the Android release
<popey> trevor?
<MartijnVdS> neither do I, and I hate dogs IRL too :P
<popey> oh, one of the characters
<daftykins> yes sir
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: oh? bitten as a child? :)
<popey> gotcha
<popey> i have been watching "lets play" videos of GTA5
<popey> so I don't need to do the missions â»
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Nah, dogs are too needy imho.
<MartijnVdS> popey: you do, to unlock stuff :)
<daftykins> agreed
<MartijnVdS> popey: yes you can cheat, but where's the fun in that
<daftykins> ^ yeah you need to make some progress so you get access to cool things
<MartijnVdS> popey: also, you need to play missions to be able to play as all characters
<popey> different people have different ideas of what "fun" means
<mungbean> mowed the lawn for autumn today. hope i don't have to go out there again
<daftykins> i'd say planes are always fun
<mungbean> i find missions quite stressful
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: they're better than in older GTAs, the checkpoints (and 3 fails = skippable checkpoint) make it work
<daftykins> or you could get good :(
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I haven't skipped a checkpoint yet, just noticed the option
<mungbean> i haven't played since i sold my ps2 (hence vice city)
<daftykins> yeah i'm just commenting on the way the games are holding hands more
<MartijnVdS> vice city was the worst
<mungbean> i had gta3 and nice city
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: what makes you say that?
<MartijnVdS> "Drive across 3 islands and kill this man. Now drive across 3 more islands kill another man and lose the police"
<popey> Princess Robot Bubblegum
<MartijnVdS> Oh with a time limit
<daftykins> popey: :D perversion extreme \o/
<mungbean> the time limits are the stress
<mungbean> on the ds its crazy
<popey> which ds game?
<daftykins> there have always been two major things i detest in gaming
<daftykins> 1) time limits
<daftykins> 2) protection missions
<daftykins> Chinatown Wars i expect
<daftykins> (GTA)
<mungbean> yep
<popey> i think i have that
<daftykins> mungbean: are you liking it aside from that?
<mungbean> help charlie chan win the race by blocking hte other cars
<MartijnVdS> racing missions *urgh*
<mungbean> i do like it but its stressy
<daftykins> haha
<shauno> escort missions wouldn't big me so much, if the dummy made any effort to stay close / keep up / act like its on my side
<shauno> er, *bug
<daftykins> that's where lies the rub :D
<shauno> reformed WoW addict.  escorts were one of those things that make collecting spiders legs look fun
<mungbean> there's blokes playing football on the field every night on te field outside..its pitch dark out
<MartijnVdS> football pitch dark!
<daftykins> XD
<mungbean> i was lying in bed hearing thump thump
<mungbean> said to missis, thats football being kicked
<mungbean> she's like naaah
<directhex> there are worse things than racing missions
<directhex> there are worse things than escort quests
<directhex> and there are worse things than time limits
<directhex> there is... mandatory in-game poker
<mungbean> ?
<mungbean> redhot poker?
<directhex> story mission: win at poker
<MartijnVdS> directhex: police quest 1
<directhex> see also: dead rising 2, red dead redemption, far cry 3
<mungbean> iron lord
<mungbean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLe5mxCdGZc
<daftykins> directhex: that must've been rigged to be easy though because i passed the RDR one first time
<daftykins> >:D
<directhex> daftykins, rdr one?
<daftykins> poker game
<bigcalm> Cat has found my pack of Tesco "Ultimate Granola" and wants in. What a strange cat I have
<daftykins> :D
<bigcalm> Anybody here successfully running CM on their Xoom?
<popey> people bought xooms? â»
 * bigcalm kippers popey :P
<diddledan> :-p
<popey> wish I knew why my windows pc wont sleep
<bigcalm> popey: too much coffee
<bigcalm> Is it its birthday tomorrow? Might be too excited to sleep
<bigcalm> I know I would be (if I cared about such events)
<diddledan> so.. the question which I seem to ask myself every 3 months or so, I'm asking yet again.. do I go wholesale ubuntu on eeveerything to the extent of removing os x from my macbook and so forth?! obviously I'm staying android on my galaxynexus/nexus7 and ios on my iphone/ipad because the alternatives either don't exist (ios) or aren't ready yet (nexae)
<daftykins> it's always handy to keep OS X on for firmware updates though
<diddledan> true dat
 * popey stabs windows
<daftykins> popey: maybe you set it up wrong :(
<popey> riiiight
<diddledan> daftykins: of course he did, it's windows
<daftykins> :D
<popey> how exactly does one setup suspend wrong
<daftykins> the OS not the function
<daftykins> day-um
<daftykins> but i jested from the outset, so no need to be all srs bsns
<popey> well, I couldn't tell that could I
<daftykins> guess not :(
<popey> was hoping for some help
<popey> never mind
<daftykins> oh right
<daftykins> so what's it doing?
<diddledan> popey: fwiw I've never had windows work properly with suspenders
<daftykins> goes away and doesn't come back? or fails to stay down?
<popey> press suspend button, screen goes dark, then logon screen comes back
<popey> doesn't actually suspend
<daftykins> any messages in the event log?
<diddledan> why can't microsoft use text files for the event log - much easier than trying to figure out their antiquated search system
<popey> nope
<popey> diddledan: see systemd and the new world order on linux
<daftykins> hmm, odd to not have gotten a power management entry
<diddledan> popey: don't tell me even linux is moving away from flat text files?!
<daftykins> i'd ignore any hardware buttons and use the start menu function to be sure?
<popey> tried that too
<popey> daftykins: for system log, yes
<diddledan> oh ffs
<diddledan> WHY?!
<popey> https://docs.google.com/a/popey.com/document/pub?id=1IC9yOXj7j6cdLLxWEBAGRL6wl97tFxgjLUEHIX3MSTs&pli=1
<popey> its already done on fedora
<daftykins> is this 7?
<popey> yes
<directhex> Azelphur, Asicminer block erupter USB - useful for anything?
<Azelphur> directhex: I wouldn't buy one right now
<daftykins> popey: hmmph, did you wipe the factory install so this is a custom one? no manufacturer power management related gubbins to install?
<popey> its a pretty clean install yeah
<popey> no factory gubbins
<popey> wonder if it needs some chipset driver from the mobo vendor
<daftykins> not if it's intel based
<daftykins> intel INFs don't tend to do too much other than rename components in device manager
<daftykins> although, i've noticed modern ultrabooks that make use of the Intel RST (rapid storage tech.) drivers sometimes use a dedicated hibernation (i know you're suspending not hibernating) partition to write the RAM contents to
 * popey installs cpu-z to find out what mobo is in this
<popey> would be faster to reboot to linux â»
<directhex> Azelphur, for free?
<Azelphur> directhex: for free, dunno, what's the hashrate on those again?
<directhex> um, 366?
<popey> aha, MSI H61M
<daftykins> popey: the intel installer is one for all these days
<popey> ooh, bios updates too
<popey> lots of stuff to download
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> ah desktop?
<popey> ya
<directhex> i wish i had beelions of pounds. i could afford a new pc!
<popey> my "gaming" machine
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i nearly upgraded, decided to delay again
<popey> can't see myself buying anything new
<popey> maybe new GPU if the one I have isn't up to GTAV
<directhex> i guess this system isn't quite as i originally built it
<daftykins> yeah nothing is really worth going up to for me, from a core 2 quad
<directhex> geforce 260 -> 660, +ssd
<directhex> 6 -> 12 GB ram
<popey> ooh, ram yes
<directhex> cpu is oooold though
<popey> thats a good point
<popey> 8-> 16GB
 * daftykins pats his DDR2 systems
<directhex> i7 920. it was high end when i got it!
<popey> ooh, bios update from A.80 to C.30
<popey> Must be good!
<directhex> but to date the system... vista cd key stuck to the case
<daftykins> my file server has a funky board with DDR2 and 3 slots, but you could fit only as much in DDR3 as currently is in as DDR2
<daftykins> popey: that's quite the code change D:
<daftykins> is it really the one?
<popey> ya
<popey> http://uk.msi.com/product/mb/H61M-E33--B3-.html#/?div=BIOS
<popey> hmm
<popey> it's rebooted 4 times now
<popey> phew, bios update screen
<daftykins> :D
<popey> wonder what magic this brings, maybe suspend will work :D
<daftykins> \o/
 * daftykins has a peruse through the downloads page
<popey> haha, new bootsplash
<daftykins> ^_^ i disable those
<popey> MSI - TOP QUALITY & STABILITY
<popey>     MAINBOARD
<daftykins> btw any devices in device manager lacking their drivers?
<popey> ah excellent. Boot error
<popey> probably the usb key
<daftykins> or it probably reset SATA mode
<daftykins> i'd definitely load defaults after an update, old school style
<popey> \o/ grub
<popey> pffft
<popey> straight to windows!
<popey> well, it boots, so that's a start :D
<daftykins> ^_^
<popey> ooh, windows wants to change (probably driver detection I imagine)
<popey> this is all very exciting
<popey> yeah, 4th time seeing that bootsplash. needs to go â»
<popey> gosh lots of driver updates on the msi website
<daftykins> i tend to get things straight from the manufacturer, they're always so out of date on mobo sites
<popey> these aren't too bad
<popey> 2013-08-19
<popey> for the VGA driver
<popey> thats probably newer than the linux one ã
<daftykins> hehe
<popey> (which is shit)
 * popey tests suspend first
<popey> bah
<daftykins> is anything lacking drivers in device manager though? the intel management engine is a common one
<popey> no, they're there
<popey> just 2 years old â»
<daftykins> hrmmz
<popey> well this isnt right
<popey> the vga driver it offered me to download is ivy bridge
<daftykins> i think they're all in one too
<daftykins> at least, from intel
 * popey installs
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/24220206 the news that matters
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> thankfully i have yet to spend my virtual moneys on virtual cars
<daftykins> :>
<popey> two more drivers to do
<popey> audio and lan
<popey> would be funny to buy a steambox in pcworld or currys
<popey> assuming top 5 hw manufacturers make them
<popey> bah, still no suspend
<popey> ~130 quid for 16GB RAM
<popey> wat! you can buy 960GB SSDs now!
<popey> ~450 quid
<popey> directhex: oi oi. are there many games in steam which still use air?
<popey> I'm sure I bought one from the humble bundle a while back
<bigcalm> Nice
 * popey suspends the same desktop under linux.. no problem â¹
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> in fairness it's usually the other way around :D
 * bigcalm slithers off to sleep
<bigcalm> Toodles
 * bigcalm tries sleeping this machine for a giggle
<shauno> I had a laptop that did that for a while.  it'd suspend-to-disk but wouldn't resume-from-disk.  ugh.
<popey> daftykins: well exactly!
 * popey sleeps this one too
<popey> nn all
<popey> wonder if mosh will carry on in the morning
<popey> we'll see
<daftykins> yep i'm off too
<daftykins> nn all o/
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-25
<Myrtti> I do love Herbamare on eggs, but I don't think it really goes that well with tea
<Myrtti> ... *grumblegrumble* morning
<MartijnVdS> \o Myrtti
<shauno> so here's a fun one.  I want to vpn at layer 2 between two linux machines.  any suggestions where to even start looking?
<mungbean> sounds complicated.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: openvpn with "tap" interfaces
<mungbean> layer2? i thought that would involve the networking hardware in betwen too?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: nah, layer 2 just means "ethernet segment", so you can bridge an TAP device (vpn) and a real internet interface, and boom, 1 big ethernet :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ssh can do it too, but I never tried that, and it isn't well-integrated into Ubuntu packaging
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I actually have an almost-finished HOWTO-like blog post for that
<TheOpenSourcerer> just nail up a stunnel?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah sorry - you want a bridged connection.
 * TheOpenSourcerer goes away to get moar coffeee
<shauno> sorry, googling to catch up :)  openvpn with tap sounds like it solves exactly why I didn't just go to openvpn in the first place
<shauno> and yeah, going for "one big ethernet" between two sites.  specifically, trying to attach a kvm instance in one building, to a switch that's located in another.  and trying to avoid the sensible solution (vlans) because I'll grow old and die before anyone ever signs it off
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Just finishing up the blog post, 1 sec
<shauno> oh no rush, I have a lot of peices to put together before this goes anywhere
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it was almost done anyway :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://blog.vandestreek.net/2013/09/bridging-internet-with-openvpn.html (beta! might still contain some bad grammar)
<shauno> after 7 years in Ireland, I have no idea what grammar is anymore :/
<popey> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<MartijnVdS> popey: how's Los Santos treating you? :)
<popey> I don't have it yet
<MartijnVdS> popey: oh, I thought you were installing it yesterday
<popey> no, pondering
<popey> but that was impatience at work
<mungbean> so a new video card costs more than a ps3/xbox360?
<popey> I want to wait for pc version because I am no good at FPS with a controller
<popey> mouse + WASD for me
<mungbean> i think i'm the opposite
<popey> i find myself looking around the place all the time
<popey> can't look and walk at the same time
<MartijnVdS> popey: auto-aim helps me a lot in those cases, but I see your poin
<MartijnVdS> t
<MartijnVdS> popey: I tried Portal 2 on the PS3.. it was a lot harder than the PC version
<shauno> I'm just terrible at fps.  a controller with 500 buttons would be a welcome excuse
<mungbean> gta5 isn't like a doom fps though
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: no, like I said, auto-aim helps
<MartijnVdS> it's more third-person than first-person
<popey> true
<popey> Stop it!
<popey> â»
<mungbean> http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-09/why-were-shutting-our-comments
<mungbean>  And because comments sections tend to be a grotesque reflection of the media culture surrounding them, the cynical work of undermining bedrock scientific doctrine is now being done beneath our own stories, within a website devoted to championing science.
<kecskebak> Of course, you never hear many reviews of second person shooters. I've heard the market is dead.
<MartijnVdS> kecskebak: 8-)
 * bigcalm awakes his machine with no problems
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> hi bigcalm
<MartijnVdS> suspend-to-ramdisk
<mungbean> http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/apple-denies-paying-ea-to-delay-plants-vs-zombies-/1100-4747/
<mungbean> now thats a game i don't "get"
<mungbean> angry birds is quite fun and all that, but PVZ?
<popey> Oh interestingly. When i was poking in the BIOS I found a setting which let me set the behaviour of the power LED when suspended. Before it was set to "Offensively blink blue" but there was an option for "dual colour LED" which I chose
<popey> my PC doesn't have a dual colour LED, so it just turned the light off
<popey> which was much better
<MartijnVdS> but how do you distinguish between off and suspended?
<popey> I dont care â»
<popey> both mean I have to press the power button to make it useful
<MartijnVdS> \o/ modern tech
<bigcalm> I pressed a key on my wired keyboard and the machine woke up
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: the "Any" key?
<bigcalm> It's a good thing that the cat didn't walk over it in the night
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: that's the one!
<mungbean> what do people think about http://www.reddit.com/r/GrandTheftAutoV/comments/1mx8a6/so_i_might_have_found_why_its_so_hard_to_make/
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: That's for the on-line part, not the "off-line" campaign part
<mungbean> even still
<MartijnVdS> it's a trend in the entire gaming industry to find extra ways to get people to pay
<mungbean> twice
<MartijnVdS> "extra"
<MartijnVdS> because you could buy those cards more than once, presumably
 * Laney stabs freshers week
<Laney> idiots screaming while walking down the road all night
<Laney> last group was at 7am
<mungbean> dodge the piles of puke too
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Comic Book Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: marvel or dc?
<mungbean> you know those key code lockey locks - do you have to take the back off to change the code?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, YES!
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: key code locks?
<mungbean> door entry system
<mungbean> manual/mechanical ones
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://keylessentrylocks.com/images/KeylessEntryLocks-product-surfacemount/2500.jpg ?
<mungbean> yeah, i'm worried you need to do this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZj4zCIWxZE
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS, you watching the game tonight?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning brobostigon - did I read on FB correctly the other day that congratulations are in order?
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: you did, yes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D Congratulations!
<mungbean> FB? i thought thats what irc was for, nullify facebook/twitter for the geeks
<brobostigon> thank you TheOpenSourcerer :D
<brobostigon> and i found her yesterday looking for rings already, and heres me thinking theres no rush.
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
 * popey avoided that by buying the ring up front â»
<brobostigon> good plan, yes.
<mungbean> i bought haribo ring
 * brobostigon makes a note, show her how to read his bcd binary clock.
<MartijnVdS> bcd, not "real" binary? :)
<Myrtti> I avoided that by using a jubilee clip
<mungbean> when you are sick is it better to watch a) film you haven't seen before 2) a feel good film 3) a depressing film
<Myrtti> and then getting custom made
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i have both batman. but the bcd one will be easier for her to grasp initially.
<popey> mungbean: depends if you're going to fall asleep
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: agreed
<mungbean> not gonna sleep
<mungbean> not feeling too bad but in quearantine
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: agreed.
<mungbean> i might watch spooks series 4 as its still in the shrink wrap
 * xnox hates flash, my youtube video is out of sync with audio Argh.
<brobostigon> tried html5?
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<brobostigon> tab fail, sorry/
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<directhex> popey, mmmmm... off the top of my head Defender's Quest uses Air. Lume uses Flash but not Air iirc
<SuperMatt> man, the more I look in to btrfs, the more I want to use it
<SuperMatt> epsecially apt-btrs-snapshot
<popey> directhex: been talking to a developer who is making a game using air, offered to help test on Linux because he's only targetting windows/mac for now and mobile later
<directhex> popey, i'd get him to talk to the defender's quest guy for tips on air bundling
<popey> thanks!
<popey> http://www.defendersquest.com/linux.html
<popey> scary looking
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<popey> holy freole! have you seen the specs of the new kindle fire?
<popey> 1920x1200 in a 7" screen
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka, hows life, how's the photo's and did you try that bit of software?
<popey> 8.9" is 2560x1600
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: do you still use your Xoom?
<popey> quad core snapdragon at 2.2Ghz
<mgdm> popey: what? Blimey
<davmor2> bigcalm: I do
<MooDoo> davmor2: no not had chance yet, just using photoshop for the moment as I have a license for it....use ubuntu for most everything else though
<mgdm> popey: what's the new N7? That's 1920x1080 IIRC?
<popey> no idea
<bigcalm> davmor2: have you come to terms with it being stuck on 4.1.2 forever more, or have you tried to put something like CyanogenMod on it?
<diddledan_> mgdm, 1920x1200 I believe
<MooDoo> cyanogenmod ftw o/ bigcalm did my s3 last week :D
<popey> blimey, they have remote support built in too
<mgdm> diddledan_: ah, cool. I'm going to get one 'eventually'
<davmor2> bigcalm: I don't really care it does what I need it to.  All I want is social networking, youtube and web browsing I tend you use Ubuntu for everything else :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i want to get ubuntu touch on my s3, but it's not that complete yet
<bigcalm> I'm a fan of mods, but won't put it on my S3 until my contract expires next year. I'm trying to put CM on to my Xoom, but it's failing to boot the recovery image
<popey> mgdm: yes, seems it is, 1920x1200
<davmor2> bigcalm: as I understand it you have to leap through some hoops to get cm on a xoom due to motorola locking down the kernel and binaries and bootloader hence goin gfor the ged rather than the CM  I might try it at some point though
<bigcalm> davmor2: I've managed to GED it, but found out that 4.1.2 is where it stops
<davmor2> yeap
<davmor2> bigcalm: the daft thing with Motorola is they will do just that, it was one of the things I hated about them, However I just don't care anymore :D
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<bigcalm> My next challange is to get a USB webcam to work with the tablet
<bigcalm> But I have a feeling that will only happen if I can mod it
<mungbean> know anyone who wants a SAN? around 300TB of disk in 2 racks
<mungbean> i know someone who wants to offload it
<bigcalm> I bet I know somebody at our LUG would would
<bigcalm> But I also bet his wife would object
<mungbean> 300tb not to be sniffed at
<mungbean> sort of thing ali1234 has in his house
<popey> i may know someone
 * popey asks
<popey> sort of thing sabdfl has at his house
<mgdm> s/his house/one of his houses/
<TheOpenSourcerer> I recall when the rest of the world was still on dial-up (v.22, v.21bis - not the fast stuff) reading about Bill Gates having *two* T1 lines into his house...
<popey> heh
<popey> mark has lots in his garage
<popey> like any self respecting geek
<mungbean> pillar axiom 500
<davmor2> bigcalm: shhh you'll get james killed and ron shouted at ;)
<bigcalm> :D
<directhex> i had one of those!
<directhex> it fell over and ate all our data Â¬_Â¬
<bigcalm> With no LUG or badminton this week, I have no social events to attend
<bigcalm> Maybe I'll catch up on sleep
<bigcalm> directhex: I can imagine a rack literally falling over. I'm sure it wouldn't be good for discs
<davmor2> bigcalm: no your just work more hours than normal,  the social activities force you to only work 40 - 60 :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: attending LUG only partly hampers work
<mungbean> let me know popey , i'll put you in touch with the person who is offloading it
<mungbean> they are london based
<mungbean> who admins sabfls house network?
<mungbean> isleofmandan should offer his services
<popey> heh
<Daviey> Indeed, he has a rack of high end ~16 servers.. 16 core, 42GB RAM IIRC.. just to 'play with' :)
<JamesTait> Daviey, just like mine then! :-P
<popey> chaps!
<popey> http://geoip.ubuntu.com/lookup
<popey> what do you get for "<city>"
<popey> I get "None"
<JamesTait> I get Arnold.
<JamesTait> I am most offended.
<popey> is that a town?
<mungbean> <City>Ilford</City>
<mungbean> thats what facebook says too
 * mungbean is not in ilford but is on talktalk so...
<JamesTait> It's a suburb of Nottingham, I think, technically.
<JamesTait> Probably.
<JamesTait> Maybe.
<popey> thanks chaps
<JamesTait> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold,_Nottinghamshire
<mungbean> better than barry i suppose
<ali1234> i also get None
<JamesTait> It's also about 20 miles away.
<ali1234> i live one mile away from arnold
<mgdm> popey: I get Glasgow. Also, I recognise the format of that response, I think. :-)
<MooDoo> I live about 3 miles from arnold
<MooDoo> ali1234: where are you?
<ali1234> just off mansfield road
<popey> ali1234: you on virgin?
<JamesTait> I live in Mickleover, on the west of Derby.
<ali1234> no
<popey> ok
<popey> ta
<Laney> popey: I get None
<mungbean> JamesTait: you like the rolling stones then?
<mungbean> mick lover
<bigcalm> On VM, I get none
<mungbean> youtube keeps showing me the GB feed. which is not very GB like. #britishproblems
<Daviey> popey: I get Manchster :)
<Daviey> (spelt correctly tho)
<JamesTait> Well played, mungbean. :)
<mungbean> awww.thought it was too good to be true..http://www.snopes.com/photos/people/cinderella.asp
<mungbean> don't have the heart to tell the person on facebook
<popey> mungbean: no interest from my friend
<mungbean> ok cheers for the update
<popey> MartijnVdS: this outlines why I'd like GTAV http://imgur.com/24mOPlx
<MartijnVdS> popey: selfies?:t )
<popey> ya
<MartijnVdS> popey: if you add me on http://socialclub.rockstargames.com you can see mine :)
<czajkowski> http://www.meetup.com/London-MongoDB-User-Group/events/140769722/  Might be useful to some people
<ali1234> rocketbirds is working on steam now
 * AlanBell is a bit frustrated with MIME
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: what about it?
<AlanBell> so I am trying to display an email on a web page
<AlanBell> like a webmail thing would do
<AlanBell> this is astonishingly hard to do right
<ali1234> what part?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it is. Webmail clients try *very* hard to do this securely as well
<MartijnVdS> you can't just put the HTML from the email on the site verbatim, it might contain naughtiness
<mgdm> AlanBell: could you rip it from something else? (like Roundcube or similar?)
<AlanBell> so there is a text/html part and a text/plain part, there might be multipart/related bits with images that I can display, but they need to go in bits like
<AlanBell> <img id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:part5.03080108.08010502@libertus.co.uk" alt="Description: sprs-email-logo" height="41" border="0" width="185">
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you need to build an in-memory "directory tree" of the MIME document
<AlanBell> the cid: bit of the URL references the image attached in another mime bit
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: (and it sub-documents)
<AlanBell> yeah, there are libraries to parse mime into a tree, done that bit
<MartijnVdS> also to view HTML mail securely (XSS-proof, etc.)?
<AlanBell> mgdm: I had a look at roundcube source, couldn't find the right bit
<AlanBell> yeah, XSS fixing, CSS fixing and other stuff needs to happen
<AlanBell> and delayed retrieval of remote <img> tags would be nice
<AlanBell> I just don't get why there isn't a library that just does it
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: put it in an IMAP box, fire up roundcube to talk to it?
<GentileBen> AlanBell, my Welsh friend.
 * AlanBell is not Welsh :)
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: actually, there might be some extractable libraries in roundcube
<GentileBen> AlanBell: then all is lost.
<AlanBell> I like leeks if that is any help?
<GentileBen> AlanBell: now there is hope.
<MartijnVdS> GentileBen: There is.. another
<bigcalm> ARGH
<bigcalm> Dash is appearing behind windows again
<Myrtti> ah, sleet
<Myrtti> time to pull out my camera
<diddledan_> bigcalm, your problem is you're using windows :-p
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<bigcalm> windows not Windows :P
<diddledan_> :-p
<mungbean> whats a approx figure to replace a couple of missing tiles on a standard london terrace house?
<diddledan_> mungbean, for a couple, I would guess 2? </troll>
<mungbean> :P
<davmor2> mungbean: 42 everything is 42 in the end
<mungbean> seems difficult to get tradesmen to do work nowadays
<mungbean> anyone got any genuine idea?
<popey> we had a tile replaced
<popey> after one of our double glazed windows fell out in my hand
<popey> (baby in other hand)
<diddledan_> I'd ask my brother what he thinks but I don't know if he'll respond while he should be working - he's a sparky though so might not know the costs
<popey> that was alarming
<diddledan_> popey, clever
<popey> indeed
<davmor2> mungbean: being as it is in London, and being as you have to fork out London Tax for parts and then London Tax for workmen, LOTS!
<daftykins> i had a couple of cracked kitchen floor tiles replaced for maybe Â£70 including the guy finding the tiles
<diddledan_> popey, at least it wasn't "after one of our babies fell out of my hand"
<daftykins> i then later found a stash of spare tiles up in the loft =|
<daftykins> from the previous owner
<daftykins> DOH
<diddledan_> London sucks
<daftykins> London tax? 0o
<mungbean> i'll look in loft for tiles...but tiles are cheap
<mungbean> its paying the man to climb up a ladder and the insuranceliability
<diddledan_> daftykins, you don't know about the LondonTax?
<daftykins> no sir
<daftykins> i am not a mainlander thus i do not concern myself much with mainlander matters
<diddledan_> daftykins, basically you add 20% onto everything you buy
<daftykins> but that's just VAT? 0o
<diddledan_> nope, in addition to VAT
<daftykins> whaaaat?
<daftykins> that sounds weird as
<diddledan_> if you work in london you also get extra pay to supposedly cover the london tax
<mungbean> can you call a man in from hertfordshire?
<diddledan_> mungbean, depends whether I know him or not :-p
<daftykins> i used checkatrade numbers a lot whilst fixing my portsmouth place up
<daftykins> very handy
<mungbean> cheers
<popey> our neighbours get men+van from wales whenever they have work done
<davmor2> daftykins: I used to work for a builders Merchant in wolverhampton.  We would often get calls to deliver to London, we would tell them that there would be a full fuel cost and cost of a driver per vehicle and some people would still order from us as it was cheaper than buying from a london builders merchant if that gives you a clue
<popey> cheaper to get them in from wales and do the work
<daftykins> davmor2: D:
<mungbean> my mums neighbour has got them from romania
<daftykins> XD
<mungbean> but they only really use hammers
<mungbean> even to build a driveway, none of the right tools
<diddledan_> I like using a hammer to mend soldered joints on my raspberry pi
<diddledan_> ok I lie, but it would be interesting
<mungbean> checkatrade seems sparse in n london
<diddledan_> note to self, buy a hammer
<daftykins> please put diddledan under said driveway
<daftykins> :>
<mungbean> whats the name of someone who does roof tiles? roofer is more a roof builder surely
<diddledan_> roofing manager
<davmor2> daftykins: Oh and don't forget London tax applies to everything, so the cost of the people the cost of the parts, the cost of the fuel, plus if you are really unlucky the cost of the emissions charge and your man spending 2 hours looking for somewhere to park the van
<daftykins> why does anyone live in London again? :D
<mungbean> my mums fault
<mungbean> gave birth to me
<shauno> damned fine question
<BigRedS> 'cause London is brilliant
<shauno> I can only assume people move to london because the release parties are there ;)
<popey> Briliaaaaaaaaaant
<popey> shauno: correlation != causation
<mgdm> I have only ever been in London for a few days at a time
<mgdm> I was there on Tuesday
<davmor2> daftykins: because the cost of living being higher means the wages are too :)
 * xnox sings "You wanna piece of me?!"
<mgdm> always quite pleased to return to a sensibleplace
<xnox> so badly want to get tickets for that Vegas show =)
<shauno> got me thinking, I really should print out a t-shirt with a "winkie face" on it
<diddledan_> shauno, pervert
<mungbean> i live in the london suburbs, so i get the worst of both worlds
<mungbean> expensive but none of the fun
<davmor2> haha
<shauno> diddledan_: I was actually just thinking it'd have to be the emoticon variant, a big yellow smiley winking would come off all wrong.  but you already went there :/
<diddledan_> shauno, you were the one that mentioned winkies
<daftykins> guys =/
<diddledan_> daftykins, pretend it says dinkies then remember that small cars used to be called dinkietoys
<daftykins> dunno you're kinda dragging the channel down :P
<shauno> I actually know that term as the 'wink' variant of smiley.  the internet's just set me straight :/
<daftykins> fwiw i would've known what you meant :(
<diddledan_> shauno, how long have you known me and yet still only just found that out?!
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wee_Willie_Winkie
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> i recall that name
<daftykins> promoting childrens libraries? by saying a child in a nightgown will come and search your windows to see if you're reading? D:
<ali1234> what makes you think he is a child?
<ali1234> i think he's a tiny old man, personally
<ali1234> i mean he's got white hair
<daftykins> could be anything!
<diddledan_> I'm not mentioning the obvious connotation of an old man peeking in children's windows
<mungbean> bfg?
<mungbean> rolf harris?
<mungbean> allegedly
<mungbean> :'(
<bigcalm> Little off topic now?
<daftykins> bigcalm: that's when this channel is at its' best
<daftykins> Rolf could never do any harm. he does nothing but sit in his armchair at home with his wobble board leaning up beside him
<SuperMatt> what's the latest news on his charges right now?
<diddledan_> I'm not going to mention rolf's "wobble board" it sounds too perverted when I say it
<daftykins> i'm not sure, lets see what the intertubes have to share
<daftykins> diddledan_: you could make anything sound so :(
<diddledan_> daftykins, bingo!
<daftykins> SuperMatt: i think court is just in progress atm
<daftykins> SuperMatt: ah, bailed for a fortnight
<SuperMatt> well, that's enough to say there is definitely a lot of smoke, but the jury is still out (literally) on the fire
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> i see it as almost sensationalist 'fashion' at the moment to target all these old stars
<SuperMatt> well
<SuperMatt> the older stars are more likely to have been involved in such a scandle, unfortunately.
<diddledan_> I really hope rolf is innocent
<SuperMatt> just the way the world was back then
 * SuperMatt hopes bug 1228302 gets fixed before saucy is frozen.
<lubotu3`> bug 1228302 in btrfs-tools (Ubuntu) "btrfs-convert does not work (unable to open ctree)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228302
<SuperMatt> it'd be a shame to miss out on in because I'm itching to convert some filesystems
<davmor2> SuperMatt: just pick on popey till it is, he is afterall btrfs champion :D
<diddledan_> mmm btr
<SuperMatt> I don't know why people call it butter fs, when clearly it should be better fs
<daftykins> haha
<SuperMatt> but seriously, I've been playing with btrfs and lxc and as a combination they are *deadly*
<SuperMatt> I say deadly, I mean a neat little way of containerising your services
<SuperMatt> but I'm beginning to see why I should have btrfs at home
<SuperMatt> it's super easy to add disks in to an array
<daftykins> does it have any advantages over EXT4 for single disk systems?
<SuperMatt> weeeeelll
<SuperMatt> there's still snapshotting
<SuperMatt> which is good when using apt and an unstable version of your os
<directhex> if only xvm was open source
<ali1234> what is "skype-mid"?
<ali1234> !info skype-mid
<lubotu3`> Package skype-mid does not exist in quantal
<ali1234> lies. it is in the partner repo
<ali1234> "skype for MIDs" - i assume that means mobile internet devices
<ali1234> how do i stop v4l device nodes from shuffling around?
<davmor2> ali1234: only have one device?
<ali1234> no i have two and one of them is usb
<ali1234> actually same problem with its audio source
<davmor2> I don't think there is a way to stop it, iirc they are just picked up by the system at run time
<popey> hehe /116
<popey> er
<popey> http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/
<popey> 10 mins!
<diddledan_> time to wander
<DJones> !alisIs there an easy method to join about 10 quicktime .mov files into s ingle video file
<lubotu3`> DJones: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<DJones> Is there an easy method to join about 10 quicktime .mov files into s ingle video file
<mgdm> DJones: ffmpeg or mencoder can probably do it
<DJones> Thanks, I'll give them a look
<ali1234> so [O  ] is "steam machines" (not steambox, i'm glad they didn't call it that)
<ali1234> what does everyone think O+O is?
<directhex> joypad?
<directhex> it could be dual analogue sticks and a d-pad
<ali1234> could be
<ali1234> but i think the O is steamOS
<directhex> in general, yes... but regardless, i think friday they announce the joypad.
<ali1234> that's a bit of a weak thing to announce third
<ali1234> "murder, arson, and jaywalking..."
<directhex> mmmmmmmmm....... see, the thing is, the input device is critical to defining a games system
<directhex> i mean, consider the wii if they hadn't bothered talking about the wiimote
<ali1234> "yeah so we made this console and you're not gonna believe this... but... it has a controller!"
<directhex> it'
<directhex> bah
<directhex> it's something people get worked up over
<davmor2> ali1234: they missed a trick should of been called steam engines :D
<directhex> look at how people reacted to the ps3's prototype "boomerang" controller
<ali1234> haha i totally forgot about that
<ali1234> also the HUGEEEEE xbox controller thing
<ali1234> but it's pretty much guaranteed that the steam controller will be very very similar to the xbox one
<directhex> probably
<directhex> but even then, there's room for variation
<ali1234> the configuration screens in big picture already exist
<directhex> the ouya pad sucks compared to the 360, for example
<ali1234> and loads of games use it
<ali1234> it's built in to SDL... the button definitions i mean
<directhex> loads of games use the 360 pad, since MS made it standard for Games For Windows
<ali1234> obviously the physical shape is up for modification
<ali1234> yeah valve has now made it a standard in SDL too
<ali1234> instead of probing every axis and every button on the joystick you get a joypad object, it has the same buttons as an xbox pad
<ali1234> you configure the mapping once in steam and then it works in "all" games
<directhex> there's scope for change though
<ali1234> so it's not going to be some crazy motion controller or virtual sword fighting stuff
<directhex> e.g. a pad with something else in it
<ali1234> O+O could be 3d goggles tho
<directhex> like the ps4 pad has a light for use w/ ps eye camera, and a touchpad area
<ali1234> is it generally possible to play PC games on a 3d TV?
<directhex> no. well, no-ish
<directhex> you can with a radeon, but most games only support nvidia 3d vision
<directhex> or you need an unofficial 3dification driver
<ali1234> O+O could also mean they're going to add more social features to steam. maybe a video conferencing system
<ali1234> i notice you have to have 10 steam friends to be in the beta
<directhex> http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/amd-hd3d/Pages/3d-desktop-graphics.aspx#4
<ali1234> hmm so the support is already there for software
<ali1234> if you buy the right hardware
<ali1234> whatever it is i hope it's something really unexpected
<directhex> oh! nvidia will sell you support for 3d tvs, if you don't want a 3d monitor
<directhex> for $40
<ali1234> yeah this is living room after all
<ali1234> and likely nvidia based
<mungbean> what was the valve announcement?
<ali1234> steam beta hardware
<daftykins> i.e. nothing interesting part deux
<mgdm> nothing interesting? that's an interesting way of putting it
<mgdm> I thought it was quite interesting
<mgdm> and I dont' use Steam or play games
<ali1234> yeah it's interesting i think
<ali1234> if the next one is just the controller, that will be boring
<daftykins> pics and details would be vaguely interesting
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairy_ball_theorem#Application_to_computer_graphics just blew my mind
<ali1234> i never saw it stated exactly like that before, but it makes perfect sense
<SuperEngineer> Video games maker Valve invites members of the public to test a version of its forthcoming hardware ahead of it going on sale in 2014.
<SuperEngineer> ...does that make it better for you daftykins ?
<daftykins> not since you reiterated what i'd already read, no
<daftykins> what made you think that was different?
<SuperEngineer> boo hiss!
<SuperEngineer> nowt - expected nothing - got nothing
<SuperEngineer> my sympathies
<ali1234> does anyone else read steamOS like cheerios?
<ali1234> those little O symbols... they are steam Os
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: they taste like cheeriOs - but more fun ;)
<mungbean> steam hardware beta involves giving your address up front
<mungbean> saw that fella on mock the week talking about farming simulator 2013....thought it was a joke
<ali1234> that's actually one of the better "simulator" games
<ali1234> there's a road sweeper simulator game...
<daftykins> what would be a good way of sharing a terminal game for others to watch?
<ali1234> like shell terminal?
<daftykins> ja
<ali1234> screen probably
<daftykins> i was thinking that
<ali1234> i think you can set it up in watch only mode
<daftykins> no way to pipe one out to a telnet feed or something for view only? to avoid login
<daftykins> oic
<ali1234> http://superuser.com/questions/320571/a-view-only-mode-in-screen
<ali1234> i did not read the linked howto
<ali1234> but basically make a user, set their shell to something that runs screen with appropriate args... that's about it
<daftykins> ty sir
<ali1234> screen sometimes acts weird over telnet but it should be ok for read only
<mungbean> there's a guy on youtube who plays all these weird simluar games and reviews them on youtube while he plays
<ali1234> what game is it anyway?
<ali1234> i didn't think there was that many terminal games... at least not ones you'd want to watch someone playing
<mungbean> i wish i could change my steam id
<ali1234> maybe nethack
<mungbean> bought it off some kids when i bought halflife
<ali1234> you can change your display name
<mungbean> he didn't have any other games so sold me his steamid
<mungbean> yeah, the login is a numpty one now
<mungbean> s/now/though
<ali1234> i think i'm losing it... i just tried to turn the sound up because the video is too dark
<daftykins> 8D
<mungbean> anyone seen the film "moon"? any good?
<shauno> I liked it
<quantumpants> evening all
<mungbean> 5 mins in so far
<mungbean> bit of a derivative of solaris
<mgdm> like illumos? :P
<mungbean> argh even the keyboard on the moon has windows key
<bigcalm> directhex: ping
<mungbean> http://www.videogamer.com/ps3/gta5/news/gta_online_microtransactions_range_in_price_between_1_99_and_13_49_report.html
<mungbean> good filn ]]
<mungbean> shauno: i liked
<shauno> not bad is it.  just really slow if you're not expecting it
<ali1234> **spoilers** don't you think doctor who totally ripped it off?
<mungbean> seemed like a mash of all slow space films
<mungbean> solaris/sunshine/etc
<mungbean> what hasn't doctor  who ripped off ;P
<ali1234> pretty much nothing
<ali1234> however, it wasn't a particularly good episode (well, double pisode)
<ali1234> like there's borrowing, then there's blatantly stealing the idea and making a poor copy
<directhex> bigcalm, ?
<bigcalm> directhex: I was trying to get https://code.google.com/p/monobooth/ working, but I don't know if I have the energy any more
<ali1234> what's the problem? mono stuff usually isn't that hard
<directhex> looks heavily windows-assumey
<ali1234> it says it works on linux
<directhex> e.g. the bundled windows opencv
<ali1234> it looks like it needs a specific version of opencv tho, one that isn't in ubuntu
<directhex> bundle of emgu cv for windows, i think
<ali1234> it's available as a deb package
<ali1234> from the project webpage
<bigcalm> I've given up :)
<dutchie> evening chaps
<bigcalm> I either have to use a tablet or write something myself
<bigcalm> Hi dutchie
<dutchie> how's things?
<bigcalm> Fantastic
<bigcalm> How you?
<dutchie> not too bad
<ali1234> what's the specific use case?
<ali1234> are you actually trying to build a photobooth for use by the public?
<bigcalm> ali1234: photo booth for my wedding
<dutchie> last week of work before i go on hols
<dutchie> then back to uni
<bigcalm> Still at uni? Last year?
<dutchie> yeah, 4 year course
<bigcalm> qaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAA
<dutchie> ?
<bigcalm> tHANKS KITTY
<bigcalm> Thanks kitty
<dutchie> lol
 * bigcalm gives in and cuddles the kitty
<bigcalm> Toodles
<dutchie> bai
<ali1234> ok it needs opencv mono bindings version which is not packaged
<ali1234> not even upstream
<ali1234> i give up
<directhex> You are now one out of 54,279 eligible beta candidates.
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> that was 30k earlier when someone else did it
<ali1234> well you still have slightly better than 0.5% chance
<directhex> not quite
<directhex> 270 random, 30 selected
<ali1234> they might select you tho
<directhex> i mailed gaben all my best nude pics, so i'm getting into the 30
<ali1234> they should do, you know enough about it
<ali1234> bigcalm: what about hacking this: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtmultimedia/multimediawidgets-declarative-camera.html
<directhex> here is a valve patent. http://www.google.com/patents/US20110105231
<ali1234> o_O
<ali1234> is that a trackball
<ali1234> if so, genius
<ali1234> that's really cool
<ali1234> just switch from joystick to mouse mode at any time
<popey> SuperMatt: I asked about the btrfs bug you mentioned in #btrfs, magically it's now linked to the upstream bug where there's a patch. https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62131
<lubotu3> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 62131 in btrfs "btrfs-convert fails" [Normal,New]
<orothus> hi
<diddledan> popey: well done chap
<daftykins> hey guys, i just helped someone install a neat python script for uploading youtube videos
<daftykins> he wants to be able to have it automated so he can leave it do them, but i'm wondering the best way to do that
<daftykins> right now you specify all the user login + video option paramaters on the command line, naturally, but of course you'd want all those pre-set so you can leave a script upload all the parts to a video
<daftykins> is there anything better than just making up a script that calls each upload command one by one?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-26
<MartijnVdS>   morning everyone
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<AlanBell> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning? It's nearly afternoon already!
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm> Yes. It's nearly time for Shropgeek tomorrow morning
<bigcalm> A sort of day off work
<AlanBell> anyone know about SIP proxies?
<AlanBell> I want to have something between handsets and an external SIP PBX that can pick up the inbound callerID and can initiate an outbound call
<bigcalm> AlanBell: *?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: of which I know diddly squat
<AlanBell> that is one possibility, however it is kind of for people who don't want a local PBX
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy European Day of Languages! :-D
<bigcalm> JamesTait: Och aye the noo?
<JamesTait> Aye!
 * bigcalm attempts to bait mgdm
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> \o/ http://popey.mooo.com/minecraft/   \o/ British Isles map
<mgdm> ?lastlog mgdm
<mgdm> oops
<mgdm> oh, it was bigcalm
<mgdm> remind me to abuse him later
<bigcalm> Bwuhaha
<bigcalm> popey: your connection being hammered now?
<popey> a bit
<popey> not too bad
 * Seeker` wants to see BW graphs :P
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6158042/
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6158047/ more history
<popey> i suspect there are a few people trying to find their own house on it
<MooDoo> popey: give everyone access to your minecraft map so ubuntu users can build a house or something at their location :D
<popey> its open access
<MooDoo> cool
<popey> same hostname
<bigcalm> I'm in the sea
<bigcalm> Which is 1 block deep
<popey> you spawn in the solent
<popey> between southampton water and the isle of wight
<bigcalm> Yes
 * popey opped bigcalm
<bigcalm> Aww, I left
<popey> i know â»
<bigcalm> Big Brother is watching
<popey> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Region-SIM-Lock-bei-Samsungs-Galaxy-Note-3-1967044.html  lol samsung
<popey> region locking phones
<bigcalm> Wah, that's horrible
<bigcalm> I wonder at what level that would be enforced. If one were able to run Ubuntu Touch on it, would it then work with any sim for instance?
<mungbean> what samsung don't need to do this
<mungbean> kiddies first day at nursery today...he's just a tad excited
<popey> hehe
<popey> bigcalm: dunno if it's done internally in the firmware
<mgdm> bigcalm: I think it's done in the 'baseband' bit (the bit that handles the air interface, as I understand it)
<gordonjcp> it may be that the RF strip only handles EU frequencies
<mungbean> any perlverts here?
<mungbean> in bash i can do:
<mungbean>  cat users.csv.3|while IFS=, read firstname surname email username
<mungbean>  do echo "$firstname|$surname|$email|$username"
<mungbean> done
<mungbean> how can i hack this into a perl script
<mungbean> the perl script already exists to create user accounts, taking arguments interactively on the command line
<mungbean> i want to either call the perl script with parameters or inesrt the loop in the perl script
<SuperMatt> oh god
<SuperMatt> I wanted to type renice
<SuperMatt> ended up typing remince
<mungbean> ok think i fixed my poblem by passing command line params to perl
<popey> directhex: thanks for the air tips, helped the guy test his app and he's going to update his kickstarter to reflect linux support...
<mungbean> \o/
<popey> although he's currently trending towards ~54% of his goal â¹
<popey> http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/770576827/color-0/
<popey> \o/ Jabber
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<SuperMatt> I just typed remince again >.<
<directhex> popey, i don't really have an understanding of the cost of development of a game on that scale, so i can't make an informed decision on whether to back it
<mungbean> popey: anything like http://www.amazon.com/Trinket-Studios-Inc-Color-Sheep/dp/B00DY8TLA0 ?
<bigcalm> Shame about the spelling
<directhex> popey, for every game kickstarter, i ask myself "how long will this take? how many people? how much am i effectively paying them?" - if the numbers don't add up, i don't back
<popey> tbh it looks mostly done
<popey> game mechanics wise, needs loads more levels
<AlanBell> the framework is done, lots of interesting levels need designing
<popey> and there's some glitchy UI issues
<popey> interestingly it offers mouse or joypad to play
<popey> I used trackpoint which was way nicer
<dogmatic69> popey: I lol'ed at 'one horsepower'
<popey> felt like I really had direct control of the character with my finger
<popey> â»
<AlanBell> I will probably back it when it updates with linux support
<popey> by "linux support" it means "install an outdated version of Adobe Air"
<popey> which works
<popey> but is a bit bleh
<popey> works well on my 1080p display i7, it's not exactly taxing
<popey> dogmatic69: that reply is getting a surprising number of faves and RT's
<dogmatic69> well JC has 2m + followers
<dogmatic69> and it was pretty funny imo
<mungbean> despite being a womanising cheat
<popey> lunchtime!
<dogmatic69> popey: about 2 or 3 already with the same response, yours was first though :
<popey> \o/
<directhex> popey, i guess i don't know what Â£5 is paying for. graph suggests about Â£2k4 on game development? what does that *mean*?
<directhex> er, Â£5k
<directhex> a full-time junior programmer for a month?
<dogmatic69> where do junior devs get Â£5k per month?
<dogmatic69> that is Â£60k pa
<SuperMatt> oh most of it will go to the HR department
<SuperMatt> because hiring a junior means they saved so much money, those savings go to their bonuses
<dogmatic69> IT job watch says otherwise http://awesomescreenshot.com/0c21rb7801
<directhex> dogmatic69, 2.4k on development costs, not 5k
<directhex> dogmatic69, and the cost of hiring an employee is about double his or her salary alone - taxes, estates costs, equipment costs, etc
<dogmatic69> taxes?
<SuperMatt> well the employer has to contribute to national insurance
<mgdm> NI contributions etc
<dogmatic69> NI is deducted from the gross salary, HMRC "The amount you earn before tax and National Insurance are deducted is your 'gross salary'."
<dogmatic69> so no cost to the company over and above the salary.
<SuperMatt> Your contribution is
<SuperMatt> but the employer also contributes
<SuperMatt> at least, that's what I've always been lead to believe
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> hey bigcalm MooDoo :)
<SuperMatt> all right, my work PC is now buttered
<diddledan> SuperMatt: and jam?
<SuperMatt> no, just btrfs
<popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/uva-the-linux-powered-games-console  lol
<popey> SuperMatt: yay
<popey> brave
<SuperMatt> I know :/
<mungbean> sounds a bit like ouya
<SuperMatt> It can't be *that* bad when you consider how many distros are now adding it as an option
<mungbean> and a bit ...biological.
<popey> 5 million though
<SuperMatt> and no one is going to say if it's production ready or not until *someone* bothers using it in production!
<mungbean> looks like a stretched wii
<mungbean> steam console will be re-purposable i'm sure
<bigcalm> Anybody got a how to record skype calls handy?
<directhex> FREAKING WIFI
<directhex> <directhex> popey, those gpu specs don't exist
<directhex> <directhex> the memory bandwidth and clock rate say Radeon HD 7950 Boost
<directhex> <directhex> <directhex> also use of the term "stream processors" means AMD
<directhex> <directhex> <directhex> but that's not a number of streams on any AMD GPU
<directhex> <directhex> <directhex> oh
<directhex> <directhex> <directhex> cpu is an amd a10-5800k
<directhex> <directhex> <directhex> so he's adding together on-die gpu plus discrete gpu
<directhex> <directhex> <directhex> in theory the latest version of fglrx supports this behaviour
<directhex> <directhex> <directhex> basically, http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/05/04
<popey> haha
<popey> bigcalm: skype call recorder, works fine
<bigcalm> Just found it and it works for me as well
<bigcalm> popey: thanks :)
<popey> np
<Myrtti> oh man
<Myrtti> sister's cat had been found dead in their garden
<Myrtti> she called me in hysterics about an hour ago
<mgdm> awwww, no
<diddledan> :-(
<popey> â¹
<mungbean> :( natural causes?
<Myrtti> probably not, he was barely a year old
<mungbean> oh :(
<daftykins> never forget the day i saw one of a pair of kittens we had trying to walk back to the house but she couldn't co-ordinate herself
<daftykins> i think it was a brain tumour in the end
<daftykins> poor little thing
<davmor2> popey: do you have a saucy pc knocking about?  If so could you open USC and let me know if the for purchase section is filling up nicely please :)
<popey> ya
<popey> it is
<davmor2> popey: \o/ ta
<davmor2> popey: only 830 to go
<popey> oof
<popey> Be nice when we switch to click packages for the desktop :D
 * AlanBell starts USC
 * AlanBell taps fingers and stares at a grey window
 * AlanBell wonders if it is doing anything
<AlanBell> oh, it crashed :(
<popey> took a second or two here
<popey> 3 seconds
<AlanBell> ok, it runs from the command line
<AlanBell> and now it starts in 5 seconds or so from the launcher
<brobostigon> usc?
<AlanBell> software-centre
<brobostigon> ah.
<davmor2> popey: indeed
<daftykins> i find as i get older i forget which spellings are the US and which are the British variant :<
<diddledan> daftykins: then you're using the americam variety :-p
<daftykins> american cameras? :>
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ap43ou27y3lyx7i/IMG_20130926_135040.jpg
<diddledan> single finger typing
<daftykins> found this little guy hanging from my specs before
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yeah, cameras that send everything to the NSA ;)
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: please, that was so last month :(
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: unfortunately, it's also this month
<daftykins> and beyond!
<mungbean> bash emergency!
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: What's up?
<mungbean>  cat bulk.csv|while IFS=, read firstname surname email username
<mungbean>  do ./test.pl "$firstname" "$surname" $email $username
<mungbean> done
<mungbean> my test runs over the whole csv file
<mungbean> when i run it against a longer useradd script if only works for the first name in the list
<mungbean> any ideas?
<MartijnVdS> I'd teach the perl script to do the split (using something like Text::CSV_XS, or just plain "split")
<mungbean> yes, but i'mnot v good at perl and time is of the essence :(
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: my ($firstname, $surname, $email, $username) = split /,/, $ARGV[0];
<MartijnVdS> or similar
<mungbean> ( $fn, $sn, $email, $username ) = @ARGV;
<mungbean> i use that in the perl script
<MartijnVdS> replace @ARGV with "split /,/, $ARGV[0]"
<mungbean> then which argument do i pass to the pl script?
<MartijnVdS> and go: for x in `cat file`; do perl foo.pl $x; done
<mungbean> thanks, i'll try!
<mungbean> what was i doing wrong?
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea, I'm baffled by harder shell code :)
<MartijnVdS> (yet I know perl..)
<mungbean> hmm..doens't work
<diddledan> I really want to work out perl's more complex capabilities like redefining language constructs
<diddledan> having a language that can be entirely different just by loading a module sounds really fun to master
<mungbean> doesn't like it if a field is joe,bloggs senior,email,user
<diddledan> mungbean: try quoting $x in the do perl foo.pl "$x"
<mungbean> nope
<diddledan> shell expansions are a black art
<mungbean> its the way the perl is splitting it
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: you don't want that in Perl, source filters are considered evil, and the new way to do it (manipulating the parse/optrees) is a bit of a black art
<mungbean> is the problem with my read line?
<diddledan__> oddness. one of my external discs (I think) is causing IO to grind to a halt on my mac
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> SMART status all green?
<diddledan__> does SMART work over usb?
<MartijnVdS> sometimes
<diddledan__> and.. I can't check because my mac is unresponsive
<diddledan__> I've got this terminal as the only functionable app
<diddledan__> and irssi is running on a separate host
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> my file server was freezing recently, in the early hours of the morning two saturdays in a row
<daftykins> turned it off, (a rare thing) reseated each disk connector and it's been fine since
<diddledan> and we just shut down with no warning - beyond a KP it was a hard power cycle without the friendly panic grey-screen-of-death
<diddledan> I reported the issue to apple
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> how very optimistic of you, sir
<diddledan> it was their automatic crash reporting mechanism - I'm not expecting any return
<daftykins> i disable the Windows one ^_^
<diddledan> yeah, I would disable this one, but it's not pirated :-p
<diddledan> (and/or I wasn't watching pr0n at the time of the crash) :-p
<zleap> lol
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/089
<mungbean> was my solution
<mungbean> had to add </dev/null
<Azelphur> Hmm, nginx is being a tad stupid, I've set it up to basic auth my phpmyadmin install, it prompts for a password, and when you hit cancel, it just lets you in anyway.
 * Azelphur facedsks
<daftykins> whoopsie   884     1  0 Sep25 ?        00:00:00 whoopsie
<daftykins> ^ is that a known thing? O_O
<daftykins> it's in my ps -ef output from a 12.04 VM
<daftykins> (server)
<popey> yeah
<popey> it gathers crashdumps
<daftykins> ah ok :)
<daftykins> thanks
<popey> it's half of whoopsie-daisy
<daftykins> XD
<popey> daisy being the backend
<daftykins> i'm playing with multi-user screen sessions
<popey> â»
<SuperMatt> I'm playing with lxc and I'm probably going to replace all my VMs with it
<BigRedS> Ah yeah, containers are brilliant
<BigRedS> for some things
<SuperMatt> well, most of the time I just need some kind of environment for testing conf changes
<SuperMatt> containers are *perfect* for that
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> I used VZ for a bit, but for some reason I use KVM now
<BigRedS> well, virt-manager
 * SuperMatt nods
<SuperMatt> I'm using that too for my windows 7 vms
<SuperMatt> because I can't escape that
<SuperMatt> but it's going to be nice to remove virtualbox
<BigRedS> yeah, I stopped using VB because i didn't like the word 'Oracle' being everywhere
<SuperMatt> I don't like it either
<diddledan> I don't like the word oracle even existing in relation to a company - the whole thing is the opposite of google - they have the mantra of "do lots of evil"
<diddledan> I _hate_ that mysql and bdb and various other databases are all shoehorned into oracle ownership
<SuperMatt> hurrr
<SuperMatt> that's true
<SuperMatt> but I'm now using maria
<diddledan> effectively if it's sql and not microsoft then it's oracle
<diddledan> although I think postgres is still standalone?
<SuperMatt> it is
<SuperMatt> and I would love to move a lot of my stuff there
<SuperMatt> but a lot of my stuff only uses mysql -.-
<diddledan> I've never worked out how to use postgres
<SuperMatt> it's quite simple when you work your head around the security
<SuperMatt> I don't think the ubuntu blog explains it very well, but then again, I don't think anyone can explain it particularly well
<diddledan> yeah, I recall the security blocking me and me saying foo this
<diddledan> this was many years ago now tho
<Azelphur> does anyone know why the user created by these mysql queries cannot login? http://pastebin.com/KzbyuKAR
<Azelphur> I get access denied when trying to mysql -ualex -pPassword
<diddledan> Azelphur: you have a user account for ""@localhost which isn't allowed to login which gets matched first
<diddledan> replace the % with localhost and you'll be set
<Azelphur> ah I see
<diddledan> you may need both @localhost and @% if you need to connect remotely
<diddledan> in addition to locally
<diddledan> damn my enter-key-happy pinkie finger!
<Azelphur> locally is fine really, I should have set locally to start with
<BigRedS> % matches localhost
<diddledan> BigRedS: yes, but localhost matches localhost first
<BigRedS> oh
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> There's only about 20 lines of context and I still missed it...
<AlanBell> !info libxmlrpc-c3
<lubotu3> Package libxmlrpc-c3 does not exist in quantal
<AlanBell> so that appears to have gone, and I want it :(
<AlanBell> !info libxmlrpc-c3-dev
<lubotu3> libxmlrpc-c3-dev (source: xmlrpc-c): lightweight RPC library based on XML and HTTP [transitional package]. In component main, is optional. Version 1.16.33-3.1ubuntu6 (quantal), package size 5 kB, installed size 36 kB
<AlanBell> but that is still there, wassup with that?
<bigcalm> !info libxmlrpc-c
<lubotu3> Package libxmlrpc-c does not exist in quantal
<diddledan> maybe the binary failed to build?
<AlanBell> !info libxmlrpc-core-c3
<lubotu3> libxmlrpc-core-c3 (source: xmlrpc-c): lightweight RPC library based on XML and HTTP [C runtime libraries]. In component main, is optional. Version 1.16.33-3.1ubuntu6 (quantal), package size 177 kB, installed size 468 kB
<AlanBell> so, now we have -core-c3, but I have a package that depends on the original thing (if in fact they are the same)
<diddledan> shouldn't -core-c3 "provide" -c3?
<diddledan> that way it can still be satisfactory in terms of reverse dependencies
<AlanBell> I think it probably should
<diddledan> I don't get why it would have been renamed anywho
<AlanBell> Replaces: libxmlrpc-c3, libxmlrpc-c3-0, libxmlrpc-core-c3-0
<AlanBell> so it has a replaces line, but not a provides
<diddledan> my naÃ¯vetÃ© says that replaces should be "good enough" for dpkg to say the package is installed
<diddledan> I'm betting that there's a reason it doesn't
<AlanBell> https://wiki.debian.org/Renaming_a_Package
<diddledan> alan_g|EOD: EOD? End of Dave?
<diddledan> reah, method 2 has been traditionally what ubuntu has used
<diddledan> yeah*
<diddledan> afaict from anecdotal evidence
<diddledan> things like the rename of flash-player to flash-plugin-installer for e.g.
<AlanBell> downloaded the deb and did a dpkg -i --force-depends on it
<AlanBell> woot!
<MartijnVdS> woot?
<ali1234> bigcalm: i got that QML camera working - it is packaged in ubuntu
<bigcalm> ali1234: humm?
<ali1234> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtmultimedia/multimediawidgets-declarative-camera.html
<bigcalm> Ah
 * bigcalm grumbles at learning another language
<kecskebak> Blimey, Kubuntu has got Xye in the repository - I love this game! It's very like the BBC Micro game XOR.
<ali1234> it's in qtmobility-examples
<ali1234> it's only QML
<bigcalm> I got the camera working in Ubuntu Touch. On the desktop it was fine. On the Galaxy Nexus, the image was sideways :)
<ali1234> sideways?
<bigcalm> Sideways
<ali1234> how can it be sideways?
<bigcalm> Rotated 90 deg
<ali1234> in the preview you mean?
<bigcalm> It was only a quick test
<ali1234> is running on gnex a requirement?
<bigcalm> Throwing the video thingy onto a page
<bigcalm> No, just amused me
<ali1234> ubuntu touch is QML so it will do the same thing
<ali1234> probably
<bigcalm> I'm going to be running it off a laptop and displayed on a 10" touch screen
<ali1234> QML is really perfect for kiosk style apps like this
<ali1234> it is exactly what it is designed for
<ali1234> assuming the Qt backend works, which it usually does
<bigcalm> I need to give it another shot. Been worn down by work recently
<ali1234> what do you actually need aside from "press button, take photo"?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: instagram filters, "digital zoom" (crop & scale up) ?
<MartijnVdS> flash on/off
<MartijnVdS>  /auto
<ali1234> the qml camera has flash on/off/auto
<ali1234> but not zoom/filters
<ali1234> those can of course be done afterwards
<bigcalm> Video display of subject. Button to take photo. Count down before actually taking photo. Photo appears next to video with the option to discard. Repeat 4 times
<bigcalm> Repeat per session
<ali1234> it doesn't have a countdown and there is no option to discard
<ali1234> but it has all the rest
<bigcalm> I found an android app that does just that as described
<bigcalm> It displayed the last 4 images taken and then starts a new session?
<bigcalm> displays
<ali1234> no, it just saves every photo you take and runs indefinitely
<ali1234> it shows the photo after you take it though
<ali1234> but full screen
<ali1234> oh apparently it has zoom too
<bigcalm> I'll give it a go in a bit
<bigcalm> Sadly my 10" touch screen is at my parents' place. So will have to hope that laptop screen works for now
<ali1234> you probably need multitouch so you can pinch to zoom
<ali1234> there's no button for it that i can see
<bigcalm> Not too interested in zooming. This is the screen: http://www.chalk-elec.com/?page_id=1280#!/~/product/category=3094861&id=14647624
<bigcalm> "multi-points" wonder if that means multi-touch
<ali1234> yeah it does
 * bigcalm ponders nipping to down the M5 at the weekend to get the touch screen back
<bigcalm> Telford -> Wolverhampton -> Worcester -> Shrewsbury -> Telford
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> How does one set *.md to be opened in ReText?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: uhh..
<bigcalm> Yeah, I'm not seeing it either :)
<MartijnVdS> mailcap? mime.types?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: /etc/gnome/defaults.list seems to do what you want
<MartijnVdS> but that's system-wide
<MartijnVdS> there must be a way to do it in ~
<bigcalm> I'm happy for it to be system wide for my workstation. But I agree, there should be a per user option
<MartijnVdS> probably http://askubuntu.com/questions/154906/which-default-list-should-i-modify-for-default-applications-and-what-are-the-dif
<bigcalm> Right click, open with, select ReText
<bigcalm> It's then associated with it
<bigcalm> Magic!
<MartijnVdS> magic!
<diddledan> http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/26/4772680/bill-gates-admits-ctrl-alt-del-was-a-mistake#! yey
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-27
<popey> GTA5 was Â£41.79 on Amazon yesterday, now it's Â£41.59.
 * popey refreshes hoping it drops by 20p each time
<MooDoo> morning all
<mungbean> wow, whats the RRP? 49.99?
<mungbean> what's the stats for most of the sales of a game, is it the builk are sold in the first 3months or something?
<mungbean> google seem to have changed their ranking in preference for news, since a generic search on games data is mostly blogs and news articles about gta5 on the first 3 pages
<popey> I suspect there would be a surge once GTA online is available
<popey> will put GTA5 on my Christmas list I think (aka Amazon wishlist)
<directhex> mungbean, console games it's a peak then a decline from there. there's not much "long tail" selling for console games
<directhex> mungbean, it's actually the first 3 weeks that determine whether a game is a success or a flop, since so few sales happen after then as to be statistically unimportant
<mungbean> so high st shops tend to focus on top 20 to maximise sales, hence creating no variety
<mungbean> then its self fulfilling
<popey> the companies aren't making non-AAA titles though are they?
<popey> it's basically now just AAA, Mobile and Indie as 3 main categories?
<directhex> well
<directhex> remember, AAA is about marketing budget, not game budget
<directhex> industry magazines have game adverts, but they're not "this game is good", they're "this game has a Â£20m multi-media marketing campaign, you are guaranteed easy sales". high street stores have limited shelf space, so buy games they think will sell
<popey> https://twitter.com/mikeBithell/status/383499821304532992
<popey> so the steamos factor is working on devs
<popey> https://twitter.com/icculus/status/383438796882067456 also
<directhex> digital distribution has carved out room for B-tier publishers who had struggled to find shelf space
<popey> true
<directhex> i wouldn't call Paradox "indie", but i wouldn't call them "AAA"
<popey> many of the mid-tier have left to mobile though?
<popey> as opposed to pc/x/ps3
<directhex> paradox. sega. kalypso. focus
<popey> http://minecraft.egmont.co.uk/ - xmas present for sam right there
<TheOpenSourcerer> Geek/space fest :-D http://dirkloechel.deviantart.com/art/Size-Comparison-Science-Fiction-spaceships-398790051
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: ^^ your kids might like that too
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed.
<mungbean> does anyone know how to block activesync from having permissions to remote wipe a device?
<mungbean> does xprivacy do it?
<popey> i found something years ago that did it
<popey> cant remember the name though
<mungbean> at this rate i'm gonna set up a gmail account which access the exchange server via imap rather than allow these permission
<mungbean> openpdroid?
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Ask A Stupid Question Day! :-D
<SuperMatt> I don't have any stupid questions. Do I have to leave if I don't have a stupid question?
<popey> That'll do.
<Laney> pig
 * JamesTait rofls
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<mungbean> reddit device: http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/1647/?pfm=Search&t=karma%20controller%20diy%20reddit%20interface%20device
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning davmor2
 * SuperMatt has started the day by raising bug 12311901
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 12311901 could not be found
<SuperMatt> bug 1231901
<lubotu3> bug 1231901 in nagios3 (Ubuntu) "Installing Nagios3 and Apache2 in Saucy does not enable the cgi mod, which is required" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231901
<davmor2> SuperMatt: let the server team know about that on the #ubuntu-server channel sounds like something they should look into asap  me hopes that is the right channel ;)
<popey> \o/ http://popey.com/webcam/ cat cam!
<davmor2> popey: wow your cat has no face
<popey> he is black and has eyes shut
<SuperMatt> davmor2: will do :D
 * MooDoo makes a mental note to make his ip cam internet viewable
<davmor2> popey: it has no face.....well that or the definition on the webcam isn't the best in the world and it just looks that way maybe.....But I'm going for no face!!!
<directhex> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gameware/james-pond-pond-is-back?ref=live
<ali1234> i never liked that game :/
<mungbean> savage pond ftw
<mungbean> hangon , not even any mock up screenshots?
<mungbean> WFH sucks when you cannot get an answer from someone on something urgent
<ali1234> world federation of haemophilia?
<diddledan> wonderful frontier homocides?
<mungbean> working from home
<diddledan> aah, I'm usually the one that people can't get the answer from when I work from home :-p
<diddledan> I spend much more time on irc when I work from home because I don't worry about appearances - I procrastinate just as much at the office but it looks like I'm still working
<mungbean> i apear to have just wee'd on myself
<mungbean> thats wfh for you
<diddledan> I do that, too. far too often
<mungbean> i tend to work harder without breaks when wfh
<mungbean> started work 1 hr early and got striaght into it
<diddledan> I don't do breaks either way
<mungbean> meanwhile my colleagues will probably think i'm dossing
<mungbean> that cory doctorow churns out books pretty fast
<mungbean> i think calling it young adult fiction means you can write it in one sitting
<Myrtti> mungbean: WFH sucks when you have to pick from the bazillion communication methods what to use to ask someone something urgent
<diddledan> mungbean: young adult sounds like it's right up my street - I can't do hardcore reading :-p
<diddledan> thankyou camelot - tonights eurosquillions is 55 bajillionÂ£
<diddledan> grab my ticket now? don't have time for that!
<popey> mungbean: he uses ubuntu doncha know
<mungbean> popey: yep i think i read some stuff he wrote in the guardian or BB about it
<mungbean> a lot of his books are so samey i feel like i'm reading the same one again
<diddledan> mungbean: that's tweenfic for ya I guess
<diddledan> it's all twiglet
<mungbean> how do i change a user's primary group in openldap?
<diddledan> heh @ my email to my colleagues: "yes, you too can taste the really hott! screaming salami release of Ubuntu before it goes live. Final Customer Experience Preview Developer Release Candidate 1.2 has been released by Canoncrosoft." *attach email: Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy Salamander) Final Beta Released; from adconrad@ubuntu.com; to ubuntu-announce list*
<Laney> O_O
<diddledan> :-p
<Laney> screaming salami is nice
<Laney> slobbering would have been better
<diddledan> it makes your eyes do that
<diddledan> aaha, yeah slobbering woulda been good
<diddledan> I'm guessing T will be twerking tween?
<diddledan> should I know what twerking actually is before I use it in a sentence?!
<diddledan> thankyou wikipedia
<diddledan> and bonus points for including the picture of miley cyrus doing a twerk on robin thicke
 * popey looks for unicode twerk and fails
<diddledan> speaking of Miley Cyrus - she used to be such a nice girl.. I don't get why she's gone so completely mental
<diddledan> (and as a person afflicted with psychiatric illness, I use the word "mental" advisedly :-p)
 * Laney pulls diddledan from asda's shelves
<DJones> diddledan: She's been listening to her dad's Achy, Breaky Heart song too much, that'd probably do it
<directhex> huh. is it a scoop to get confirmation from audiokinetic that Wwise is being ported to linux (steamos)?
<directhex> popey? or anyone who is part of one of the endless parade of ubuntu/gaming blogs?
<popey> I'd not heard of it before you mentioned it
<popey> saw your RT though, nice!
<popey> do you know how many games use it?
<directhex> popey, a few hundred
<directhex> popey, mostly big-name games like bioshock or assassin's creed
<directhex> popey, perhaps of most relevance... limbo. wwise is the "sorry, wine only because middleware is nonportable" middleware
<Myrtti> ooh assassin's creed
<popey> golly
<mungbean> ok...screaming baby not good for stress levels when trying to hack ldap
 * AlanBell stays away from LDAP
<AlanBell> and babies ;)
<diddledan> ouch, ldap is evil
<diddledan> screaming babies notwithstanding
<MooDoo> you get used to screaming babeis
<mungbean> finally took the dressing off my tattoo
<mungbean> healed up pretty nice
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/MXoCnOf.jpg
<diddledan> I'm assuming it's supposed to be spelled incorrectly
<mungbean> i think the geek version should say no regexp
<mungbean> its spelt incorrectly? where? OH NO!!
<AlanBell> ;)
<mungbean> i would never get a tattoo :D
<popey> https://s3.amazonaws.com/pfuploads/tumblr_mlm7q5xxfU1qdnibfo1_500.jpg
<mungbean> the best ones are when they get a football manager's face
<popey> https://twitter.com/shittats is quite fun
<mungbean> tattoos are no joke. it stresses me out even to see such hideous blemishes on other people
<popey> pfft
<mungbean> isn't that the forkbomb? http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2422/4033340711_543ef81df0_b.jpg
<diddledan> mungbean: yes
<diddledan> you don't need the ampersand for it to be effective though
<diddledan> :(){:|:};: works just as nicely
<diddledan> !danger
<lubotu3> DO NOT RUN THAT COMMAND! That particular command is DANGEROUS and shouldn't be uttered here. REST OF YOU: DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! Do not use the command or utter it here thank you!
<diddledan> is it fair to get the bot to moan about yourself?
<Myrtti> yes.
<Seeker`>  /abk diddledan
<Seeker`> :P
<diddledan> Seeker`: /abk?
<diddledan> something bankick?
<diddledan> thankfully that forkbomb is obscure enough that n00bs don't realise it is bash syntax
<diddledan> (that's a good thing becuase they then don't try running it out of curiosity)
<Seeker`> diddledan: autobankick
<Monotoko> is there anywhere on freenode that I can get help with SIP? >.>
<AlanBell> Monotoko: depends on the software, I am doing stuff with #opensips at the moment
<AlanBell> Monotoko: what is the question?
<directhex> Monotoko, "firewalling issue". next!
<diddledan> I agree with directhex
<diddledan> with SIP absolutely every question no matter how esoteric and seemingly separate boils down to the firewall
<directhex> or some facet of it
<directhex> e.g. "MTU is wrong size!" "NAT is the wrong colour", etc
<diddledan> I never did get the colourising of NAT
<directhex> "slight kernel jitter"
<directhex> "too much IO load"
<directhex> sip is basically awful
<diddledan> unfortunately it's about the only "open" telephony protocol that also has hooks into POTS
<Monotoko> AlanBell: I'm trying to get a server to use pjsua to call my SIP number which should in turn go to my mobile
<Monotoko> it has no firewall
<Monotoko> but it just seems to... hang
<Monotoko> and so much stuff comes through that I have no idea what's making it hang
<Monotoko> http://pastebin.com/sz7ce15v
<Monotoko> 1892551@sipgate.co.uk has a forwarding to my mobile which it should be following, but nothing is appearing on that ones call log anyway...
<SuperMatt> davmor2: thanks for pointing me at ubuntu-server for that bug, it's been marked as high and being triaged now
<davmor2> SuperMatt: you are welcome, I figured they would be the ones that would need to deal with it :)
<davmor2> SuperMatt: if you know who to ping when you have written a bug that is important in general, rather than specific to you, it's worth pinging the team because it means they see it, on the whole if 100 bugs hit you a day it just becomes a blur
<SuperMatt> yarr
<SuperMatt> I would really love to start looking in to fixing bugs
<SuperMatt> I just don't think I have the time
<diddledan> religious quote of the day: "God said unto Moses: 'come forth'; but he came fifth and won a toaster"
 * Monotoko murders nagios in cold blood
<bigcalm> Hello peeps from Shropgeek Revolution :)
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> and \o/
<diddledan> nagios *stab stab*
<diddledan> and shropgeek ftw
<mungbean> all active fail2ban rules should show in iptables -vnL right?
<diddledan> mungbean: yes I believe so
<mungbean> users are reportign that if they get password wrong once they are blocked out
<mungbean> wonder if its a client problem..using mobaxterm
 * bigcalm senses popey is not a happy bunny
<diddledan> sounds like their client is prompting for a password and then blindly resending it without prompting at every request even though it's been denied
<mungbean> gonna have to reboot to windows to try @(
<popey> bah
<diddledan> reboot? to windows?! EVIL!!!!!!!1!
<diddledan> !danger > mungbean
<lubotu3> mungbean, please see my private message
<diddledan> bah
<diddledan> !danger | mungbean
<lubotu3> mungbean: DO NOT RUN THAT COMMAND! That particular command is DANGEROUS and shouldn't be uttered here. REST OF YOU: DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! Do not use the command or utter it here thank you!
<diddledan> annoying that there's no standard among bot makers
<diddledan> the #wordpress bot responds on .commands instead of !commands and uses > as the redirector instead of |
<diddledan> I think there should be one bot to rule them all
<diddledan> same bot in here as is in every other channel everywhere
<diddledan> mmm, yea
<diddledan> tea**
<diddledan> alan_g|tea: email me some :-p
<mungbean> i run supybot, i think lubotu3 is descended from him
<diddledan> aah python
<diddledan> why is python so popular?!
<diddledan> it seems to have become the new Perl
<diddledan> although nodejs is trying to become the new python aka the new new perl
<mungbean> yes it was fail2bna
<diddledan> why does the euromeelions have to have a rollmeover on payday?!
<popey> oooh
<popey> http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/
<popey> http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/
<popey> woah
<davmor2> popey: okay take a chill pill it's only an advert ;)
<arc__> hello
<popey> hello
<arc__> will they keep making ubuntu for the ppc
<DJones> !ppc | arc__
<lubotu3> arc__: PowerPC.  Formerly used by Apple for the Macintosh line of computers. Variants are now used in popular gaming consoles. PPC was a fully supported Ubuntu architecture up to and including edgy. It is now a community port, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCFAQ
<arc__> cool ok
<diddledan> I don't get why manufacturers moved away from ppc - I guess it's part of ongoing unification of hardware architecture onto x86 which I'm assuming will eventually make way to unification onto ARM
<arc__> The only ppc i have is a Mac G5
<directhex> diddledan, ppc was dropped by apple because it couldn't compete on price/heat/power/performance with intel - specifically, no way to put a G5 in a laptop without it having thermal issues
<diddledan> I see
<directhex> and in the general case, ppc is expensive. ibm still put them in top end servers tho
<directhex> nintendo still use ppc for wiiu
<directhex> <directhex> ok, WAT @ steam pad
<ali1234> ....... that gamepad looks lame
<ali1234> then again i said the same thing about the n64 pad
<Azelphur> Has anyone noticed that SFTP uploading is /ridiculously slow/ when using thunar or something?
<Azelphur> he says, just as his upload speed jumps from 900bytes/sec to 180KB/sec.
<davmor2> Azelphur: It's quite quick for me in nautilus
<Azelphur> weird, I stopped using nautilus since they changed the typing search method in 13.10
<Azelphur> the new thing sucks.
<diddledan> why do I drool over apple products?!
<bigcalm> diddledan: do you have a wooly coat and bleat a lot?
<diddledan> bigcalm: as in am I a wolf?
<bigcalm> More of a sheep :P
<diddledan> lol
<bigcalm> Apple do good design, which could be why you want it
<diddledan> I'm reminded of lee mack's humorous bit about advertising for a pie
<diddledan> "it's hot and crusty, and I want it"
<bigcalm> Hehe
<diddledan> in the style of a fragrance advert :-p
<diddledan> speaking of which, how terrible are fragrance adverts?!
<bigcalm> They are silly and meaningless
<diddledan> "but I want it"
<diddledan> the rumourmill is going overdrive on nexus5-related stories
<bigcalm> I want a Nexus 6 ;)
<diddledan> is that the galaxy note lookalite?
<diddledan> lookalike
<diddledan> i.e. a phone that's the size of your foot
<bigcalm> No, it's a Bladerunner reference
<diddledan> aaah
<diddledan> I missed it
<diddledan> apparently, iirc, the copyright owner of the blade runner franchise (I don't remember who anymore) tried to sue google over use of the word nexus in relation to android
<bigcalm> Yes
<diddledan> aah, phew, I was worried I was making it up as I went along :-p
<bigcalm> That's a rather specific thing to make up
<diddledan> it's been known
<davmor2> diddledan: surely a shoe is better for your foot than a phone
<diddledan> davmor2: tell that to samsung
<diddledan> they might have used gorillaglass which will help with cracking
<diddledan> agents of s.h.i.e.l.d. on ch4 right now
<ali1234> Azelphur: thunar uses gvfs now, so it should be exactly the same speed
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> that might be new in saucy, i don't know
<ali1234> thunar-vfs was killed with pitchforks
<ali1234> "Fri, Sep 27, 09:00 PM to 10:00 PM (70 mins)" - oh, mythtv
<Azelphur> maybe mythtv was written on an alien planet where they have 70 minute hours.
<Azelphur> :P
<ali1234> btw, xfce is getting gtk3 indicator support
<ali1234> i'm using it right now :)
<ali1234> finally working volume controls
<Azelphur> nice
<diddledan> wtf
<diddledan> how does mythtv bend the space time continuum?!
<ali1234> i dunno but it better not cut the end off
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> it inevitably will
<ali1234> ooo cheap servos on rapid...
<bigcalm> Might be a little late for this, but which is a good hotel to book for oggcamp? :)
<bigcalm> Still haven't decided if I can really go or not
<dutchie> does anybody want steam keys for awesomenauts?
<dutchie> soundtrack too
<bigcalm> I haven't got around to playing the copy I already have on steam ;)
<daubers> dutchie: How do you have so many?
<dutchie> daubers: i only have one! nobody wants it :(
<dutchie> and that came from the kickstarter
<daubers> heh :)
<sketch_> can anyone help me get this .sh file to run?
<ali1234> maybe.
<sketch_> ok cool i've tried to make it executable in properties and the check wont stay
<mungbean> special episode of IT crowd on now
<sketch_> ok i need someone with teamviewer to take a look please
<popey> sketch_: i have teamviewer
<popey> happy to take a look
<sketch_> ok cool
<diddledan> lmao @ the IT crowd
<popey> no spoilers! :D
<diddledan> I just saw an advert for wuaki.tv
<diddledan> I only discovered they existed this week
<geoffrey> coldsoda
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-28
<diddledan> google plus' auto enhance feature is pretty awesome considering it does it without any input
<diddledan> photo*
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<Myrtti> morgon allihopa
<brobostigon> guten morgen Myrtti
<popey> moin
<brobostigon> guten morgen popey
<shauno> dobrÃ© rÃ¡no brobostigon
<shauno> today is bios updates day.  be afraid :/
<brobostigon> fingers crossed,
<shauno> seems the gods aren't with me today
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<brobostigon> shauno: eeeek :(
<brobostigon> anyone know anything about iphone, my gf asked me this morning, can you get a slide lock like you can on android on IOS ?
<shauno> fun message.  "Cannot use a "Dell System Poweredge 2950" BIOS in a " - ".  Press any key to exit.
<bigcalm> very informative
<shauno> getSystemId in libsmbios sees it as a 2950 a-ok.  but dell's own update tool doesn't.  fun
<bigcalm> brobostigon: as in slide to unlock?
<brobostigon> i liked BeOS error messages, they were all haiku's. :)
<brobostigon> bigcalm: yep
<bigcalm> brobostigon: yes
<bigcalm> brobostigon: that's about all I know about iOS
<brobostigon> bigcalm: how, was my next question.
<bigcalm> brobostigon: popey is an iOS fan :)
<brobostigon> bigcalm: certainly,
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: except when he's working, then he's an Ubuntu phone fan
<Myrtti> brobostigon: sure there's slide unlock, it just doesn't look exactly like it does in ios
<Myrtti> why you'd want to use slide unlock is a different question, probably better left unanswered
<brobostigon> Myrtti: i shall have to do some research, my gf saw my slide unlock on my android and liked it better than the passcode unlock on her iphone, so i was simply wondering as i didnt know.
<Myrtti> well there's also pattern unlock
<Myrtti> and pin unlock
<Myrtti> (well passcode)
<Myrtti> and depending on if you've got new enough phone and a front facing camera, face unlock
<brobostigon> i have that on my android yes, but she didnt seem to find something like it, on her iphone.
<Myrtti> then there's other lockscreens, I've seen Ubuntu one which I tried and didn't like because I couldn't intuitively figure out how I should actually unlock my phone with it
<MartijnVdS> http://blog.ziggytek.com/2010/08/19/apple-granted-patent-on-ios-%E2%80%9Cslide-to-unlock%E2%80%9D/
<MartijnVdS> they MUST have it as an option at least
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i would have agreed, and my gf looked but couldnt find on her iphone, hence i am asking, as i have never used an iphone.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: maybe you just have to turn off all other unlock modes instead of enabling slide-to-unlock (because it's a default/fallback)??
<MartijnVdS> guessing here :)
<brobostigon> good question, maybe, i will ask her, when i see her tmrw.
<shauno> I'm confused .. slide to unlock is the only option on ios?
<brobostigon> shauno: my gf wanted a lock on her iphone, so she found a code unlock, but not a pattern unlock like on my android, but would prefer a pattern unlock like i have, so was asking if there is a such a pattern unlock for IOS or not.
<Myrtti> oh right, now I understand it
<shauno> ah, gotcha.  I read it as you were trying to get 'slide to unlock' on the iphone lol.  there's no pattern one as standard, no idea if there's 3rd-party via jailbreak
<brobostigon> my theory was, inside IOS so many of those things, are not user replacable.
<popey> brobostigon: there is no pattern unlock on ios
<brobostigon> popey: thank you for the answer. greatly appreciated.
<shauno> well, I give up.  if I use libsmbios to run the update, it doesn't take.  if I use dell's updater, it doesn't try
<bigcalm> There is a pattern unlock, as long as you are happy with the pattern being 1 horizontal line
<brobostigon> bigcalm: haha, lol.
<shauno> so I'm stuck with a bunch of machines that constantly scream of temperature alarms if I put more than one proc in them.  sweet
<Monotoko> bah
<Monotoko> work backups
<Monotoko> on a saturday
<Monotoko> :(
<popey> brobostigon: it is possible to add pattern lock to an ios device if you jailbreak it though.
<brobostigon> popey: she is on contract with it, so i think that would be breach of contract wouldnt it?
<MartijnVdS> I don't think they tend to mind a lot, as long as you keep paying the bills?
<MartijnVdS> but that might be different in the UK compared to NL
<MartijnVdS> (where *everyone* seems to jailbreak their phones)
<popey> brobostigon: don't see why it would be
<popey> I have never jailbroken an ios device though
<popey> might do when my ipad 1 gets long in the tooth, spruce it up with some new apps
<brobostigon> i shall have to research that, it would certainly solve the issue.
<ali1234> if you jailbreak your iPhone, apple employees come to your house and kick over your garden gnomes
<popey> â»
<popey> http://boingboing.net/2013/09/27/gay-pasta-war-heats-up.html
<popey> made me smile
<brobostigon> ali1234: lol.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Good thing he has androids to protect him
<penguin42> popey: Lots of nice touches in that - the dog especially
<Jaxks> hi
<Jaxks> I have a problem, can you help me?
 * Myrtti shakes the magic 8-ball
<Myrtti> "no way"
<Monotoko> Myrtti: I think you scared him off :P
<Myrtti> Monotoko: magic 8-ball says no
<Myrtti> (so do the timestamps)
<ali1234> http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/q/62787/33319
<ali1234> guy doesn't think vectors are hard, a bunch of people prove they are by giving incorrect confusing analogies
<ali1234> à² _à² 
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: next up: people mess up matrices :)
<ali1234> and then quaternions
<MartijnVdS> beziers?
<ali1234> splines would be next, yes
<ali1234> perhaps splines would be before matrices actually
<MartijnVdS> seems likely
<MartijnVdS> graphics hurt my head
<ali1234> matrices aren't used nearly as much as most people think
<MartijnVdS> but then, netword code used to hurt my head and now it doesn't
<MartijnVdS> network*
<penguin42> the simpler 3d stuff isn't too bad
<ali1234> at least not visible to the developer. they're used internally of course
<ali1234> typically you just set the position, orientation, scale and the engine turns it into a matrix for you
<bigcalm> Any of you peeps node.js users?
<ali1234> http://apple.slashdot.org/story/13/09/28/1136248/why-ios-7-is-making-some-users-feel-sick
<ali1234> parallax makes people sick now?
<penguin42> ali1234: If you perceive that you are seeing parallax but you aren't I can imagine it could confuse the brain
<ali1234> so how come i never got sick while playing side scrolling computer games?
<penguin42> maybe it needs to be good enough for your brain to think parallax for it to happen
<daftykins> in fairness, some people get sick from TV shows moving too fast
<daftykins> so... yeah.
<ali1234> i suppose
<penguin42> ali1234: Note that nothing about the brain necessarily makes sense
<daftykins> more so other peoples :D
<bigcalm> Anybody fancy testing something with me quickly?
<mgdm> depends what it is
<bigcalm> http://cuth.eu:18080/
<daftykins> ^_^
<bigcalm> I need lots of people to try this at the same time
<penguin42> I'm not sure you've got enough people here to do that
<daftykins> spam it to channels with trouble makers!
<penguin42> claim it's a link to free naughty stuff
<popey> post it on twitter
<bigcalm> It needs an auto scroll
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ulh9gym6mw9vi5g/IMG_20130928_210319.jpg
<daftykins> good ol' XBMC
<daftykins> great album btw, Beach House - "Bloom"
<popey> \o/ Br Ba
<daftykins> yeah i've been watching s5, started last weekend-ish
<daftykins> got a few eps done, maybe carry on shortly :)
<daftykins> there we go, it's just pulled in new South Park + Big Bang Theory
<bigcalm> Tweeted, lets see how it goes
<daftykins> would you like it pasted into some larger channels too?
<bigcalm> Um, I dunno yet
<daftykins> ok :>
<daftykins> for testing i mean
<bigcalm> It's the basic demo from the socket.io site. Dunno if it can be exploited
<bigcalm> Go on then :)
<bigcalm> How does one find out how many connections have been made to a port?
<penguin42> will ss tell you?
<mgdm> bigcalm: netstat, probably
<mgdm> bigcalm: I forget the exact incantation though, sorry
<penguin42> bigcalm: Try ss -tue
<bigcalm> iain@banana:~$ ss -tue | grep 18080 | wc
<bigcalm>      21     189    2368
<bigcalm> A good start
<daftykins> apachetop too perhaps, depending on your server? *shrug*
<bigcalm> It's node.js
<bigcalm> It is its own server
<daftykins> ah
<arc__> #mac
<arc__> sorry
<ali1234> so can this be used to make multiplayer games and so on?
<ali1234> how simple is this the code of this example?
<arc__> hi
<arc__> how do i bridge wired connections in ubuntu
<bigcalm> ali1234: it's the 1st example on the socket.io site
<ali1234> it's an impressive demo
<arc__> hey guys is there any channels on freenode for macs
<daftykins> yep i think there's ##osx
<daftykins> ##mac perhaps
<daftykins> not sure on where the 'good' ones are
<arc__> ok
<shauno> #macosx seems to be the main one.  there's also ##mac ##apple and #macdev
<GentileBen> #osx
<GentileBen> ##ios
<GentileBen> Troll answer: #bsd
<X98Hacker> lol
#ubuntu-uk 2013-09-29
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hola
<bigcalm> What's happening?
 * MartijnVdS is playing with openvpn.. again
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> also, Jurassic Park soundtrack
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i found openvpn absolute hell to setup, took me almost two months to get it setup right, working on it every day.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I've done it before, and I have my own blogposts to guide me
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you might want to read them :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://blog.vandestreek.net/2013/09/bridging-internet-with-openvpn.html + http://openvpn.net/index.php/open-source/documentation/howto.html help me all the time
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that i will have to do, and make copies for future reference, :)
<MartijnVdS> (the howto especially for the easyrsa/RSA key bits)
<brobostigon> than kyou,
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: note that my setup creates a layer 2 ("ethernet") VPN, not a layer 3 ("IP") one
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: so you mess with bridges instead of routing tables :)
<MartijnVdS> (it makes some things easier (running both v4 and v6, for instance), other things harder (firewalling, possibly))
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i see,
<brobostigon> agreed, having working ipv6 over it, would be good aswell.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's not quite ethernet -- I don't think you can do 802.1q (VLANs) on it -- but you can just create multiple VPN connections (server/client pairs) if you need that
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: but things like DHCP work fine across it (in the router/tun setup you need to be smart about that)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, interesting, i can envisidge some uses for that.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: cool.
<NET||abuse> there are 2 things that annoy me about the current nautilus setup.  1. typing a few characters immediately performs a search, rather than jumping to files in the current view with those characters in them.  2. and this is both nautilus and other apps(eg libre office) alt+f doesn't open the file menu....
<NET||abuse> maybe that second one is more a unity "feature"
<NET||abuse> alt+f opened the file menu in terminal though
<NET||abuse> and the alt button being tied to a sort of quick comment menu, it's a bit annoying.
<penguin42> NET||abuse: alt-f opens the file menu in libreoffice running under KDE
<NET||abuse> penguin42: well :) KDE is it's own little torment :) It's so good yet, so not right for me to use.
<ali1234> NET||abuse: you want Xfce, it does both the things you said
 * penguin42 wonders how in G+ you modify a post to share with more people
<MattJ> print it out, post it in a public place
<penguin42> Well I didn't want it public!
<Laney> i think you have to re-share it
<penguin42> yeh looks like it, which is annoying given the circles I wanted to add overlap with the others and it means that the reshare won't have the comment trail
<brobostigon> the net, ch4.
<bigcalm> Knickers
<bigcalm> Microwave packed up while cooking my lunch
<bigcalm> Looks like Tesco will make an appearance in my life this afternoon
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> 'pants', also works.
<bigcalm> Pants will not cook my lunch
<brobostigon> neither will knickers
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> Anybody with microwave brand recommendations?
 * penguin42 admits to not remembering what ours is - it's been going for 15 years though with only mechanical wear on one of the buttons
<popey> I have never had a microwave pack up
<popey> but then I've only ever owned one
<popey> 13 years old
<penguin42> ours has some wear on the stop button; it's basically a plastic moulding with a peg on the bottom that presses the conductive material, but the peg has warn down a bit
<popey> the bulb on ours is gone, never really been that bothered to replace it
<Myrtti> bigcalm: depends on what your budget is
<Myrtti> bigcalm: we bought an ex-display Panasonic Inverter one from Comet some years ago, it has all the bells and whistles, it was expensive-ish but I've always wanted an inverter microwave
<Myrtti> well worth the money we spent on it, might have been around 150 or so, not entirely sure to
<Myrtti> tho
<popey> inverter?
<Myrtti> yeah, it regulates the amount of energy the magnetron blasts at the food instead of just having it blast full-blast for 30% of time when it's on 30% power setting
<penguin42> ours is a Sharp
<penguin42> Myrtti: Isn't that all the inverter is doing - just switching it quickly?
<Myrtti> " In most ovens, the magnetron is driven by a linear transformer which can only feasibly be switched completely on or off. As such, the choice of power level does not affect the intensity of the microwave radiation; instead, the magnetron is turned on and off in duty cycles of several seconds at a time. Newer models have inverter power supplies which use pulse width modulation to provide effectively continuous heating at reduced power so that ...
<Myrtti> ... foods are heated more evenly at a given power level and can be heated more quickly without being damaged by uneven heating."
<Myrtti> excellent for defrosting or my second-best breakfast porridge
<ali1234> there is nothing worse that when you try to microwave something and it just flubs all over the inside of the microwave
<Myrtti> yup
<Myrtti> and I used to do porridge a lot
<penguin42> ali1234: It's amazing how stuff sticks to the roof....
<Myrtti> but yeah, ours is a convection oven and a grill as well it actually gets a lot of use, easy to do fray bentos' and potatoes with
<Myrtti> bigcalm: updates on what you ended up with, I'm interested :-P
<daftykins> RIP file server 500GB OS HDD - your sudden death last night has rendered me unable to complete my mission of catching up on Breaking Bad until i can replace you
<popey> oof
<daftykins> not only did i lose the OS and lots of config, but everything i seed - like all the Linux distro images :(
<daftykins> ~400GB worth
<penguin42> ouch, and the RAID pair?
<daftykins> ah my 6 disk RAID 5 is fine :> just inaccessible for now
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> my controller's driver is on the dead disk too 8D
<daftykins> oh what fun
<daftykins> not a big deal of course, just kinda amusing
<penguin42> so you've got a 6 disk RAID5 but not the OS?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> the array is pure storage
<penguin42> so you're going to replace it with a RAID pair now - right?
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> not sure how i want it to be, ideally the OS and downloads drive should be physically separate this time but i don't really want to consume the extra power
<daftykins> biab
<daftykins> better start operating on this thing i guess
<penguin42> daftykins: You can get some pretty small/cheap SSDs for OS these days
<daftykins> indeedy, a cheap ~60GBer might suffice
<daftykins> then a 1 or 2TB storage disk
<popey> yeah, my server has a small SSD for root
<penguin42> about #35 for the 60GB I used in my firewall
<AlanBell> there is bcache now too, which means your SSD is a cache for the spinning rust
<daftykins> hmm
<AlanBell> so you could have something like a 20GB root partition, and 40GB of bcache, and the rest of the disks off most of the time
<AlanBell> if you can spin down raid disks
<daftykins> that induces wear and reduces their lifespan
<AlanBell> depends how much time they spend not spinning
<penguin42> thats very much a heauristic on how often
<AlanBell> my server runs off an SD card most of the day, but accepts backups to the spinning drive in the evening, so that is mostly not spinning during the day
<stgraber> I'm also not sure I'd want to have data and a cache on the same SSD, sounds like this would lead to a lot more write cycles than standard usage, leading to it failing much earlier than usual. Which is perfectly fine if that's all it does (since you can just swap it for a new one), but a bit more annoying if there are data you care about on it too.
<daftykins> program/erase cycles really aren't that finite
<penguin42> supposed to help if the drive is quite empty
<daftykins> yeah, depends on the specific drive for how much overprovision it was made with afaik
<daftykins> wow my dead disk just got detected
<daftykins> maybe it lives enough to get the data off :O
 * penguin42 keeps getting endorsed on linked in for Perl; my perl is really really shit
<shauno> linkedin is pretty scammy for that sort of stuff.  it'll prompt people to endorse things, but make it look like it's a message coming from you
<shauno> so you'll end up with all kinds of overinflated endorsements just because people like you too much to write the truth
<ali1234> yeah i've been endorsed for mysql and project management on linkedin, two things i know almost nothing about
<ali1234> oh and microsoft office
<shauno> it seems highly counterproductive to me, because the only sensible outcome is that it'll end up devaluing legitimate feedback
<daftykins> alrighty one dead disk removed
<daftykins> best transplant it into my desktop to see what i can make of it =/
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0qjflygolvtm40m/IMG_20130929_200117.jpg
<daftykins> she be stalling
<daftykins> ah no eventually got by
<daftykins> nothing from fdisk from a LiveUSB
<penguin42> has seen dieing drives that like to cool down - had one that I actually put in a fridge
<daftykins> i almost began to think of trying :>
<daftykins> it definitely was suffering thermally before the pop
<daftykins> BIOS detects it and just now said "SMART capable but command failed"
<daftykins> so i think the controller board might be kanck'd
<daftykins> *knack'd
<daftykins> if fdisk can't see it there's probably not much hope is there?
<daftykins> i haven't got any zip lock bags to try the fridge :D
<shauno> and those wee bags of silica gel too.  I'm always nervous about condensation doing that
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> it definitely survives long enough to be detected when cold booting
<daftykins> but it starts to flake out
<daftykins> i forgot i have two spare laptop HDDs so i'm trying a clean install to one now
<popey> I'd put it in a tupperware box with a small pile of instant coffee
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hmm i could temporarily use the bread box for that, that could work
<daftykins> so then - just give it a few minutes?
<popey> I'd look to get it below room temp
<popey> so probably 30 mins
<daftykins> sounds good :)
<daftykins> for now i'm getting an OS on another disk so i can at least get to Breaking Bad D:
 * popey hugs netflix ipad
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> i don't like streaming content
<popey> I tend to watch BrBa on a Monday lunchtime
<daftykins> :>
<popey> which means I need to be offline soon until then
<popey> because americans will start posting spoilers
<daftykins> *nod*
<shauno> it can be annoying because my ipad doesn't have a remote.  but streaming's slightly more convenient than trying to duct-tape together the remains of a fileserver ;)
<daftykins> i'll have to avoid a few channels
<daftykins> hah - well it's just the OS disk that went
<daftykins> and it's not like this happens often
<daftykins> this system is from 2007
<popey> annoying more than anything
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> i did have it freeze a couple of weekends in a row but couldn't pinpoint the issue
<daftykins> i should've added a fan since the OS HDD was getting hot but - i lived and learnt
<shauno> I'm waiting for the same thing to happen on mine.  hdd in my old appletv has started making fun noises.  but all the content's external
<daftykins> hehe
<shauno> it sounds like someone's repeatedly picking up, and placing (not dropping) a glass marble.  I figure that's a death sentence, but I'm too lazy to do anything about it yet
<daftykins> i'm curious as to what this windows 7 install is going to do, it's been stalling majorly as it seems the disk was last used as GPT
<shauno> especially since replacing the drive involves a spatula :/
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> good opportunity to go solid state \o/
<shauno> I'm not sure actually .. I have a funny feeling these are still p-ata
<daftykins> that can be done
<shauno> yeah. 2.5" ATA.  that'll be a pain to source
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i got a proprietary connector SSD for an old PATA Sony ultraportable for a client some time ago
<popey> gah, must stop watching GTA V videos!
<popey> Almost bought it for XBox yesterday
<bigcalm> popey: I've only been watching the Hat Films 'Havin' a bash' vids of it. Most amusing
<popey> yeah, me too
<bigcalm> Looks like great fun
<daftykins> popey: :D
<daftykins> it's definitely good
<daftykins> my talk of it finally persuaded a mate to buy it, albeit he got the PS3 version :(
<bigcalm> Something silly, sweet dreams :) http://youtu.be/LwG-SAFWd-8?t=13m
<daftykins> one RAID volume back accessible \o/
<daftykins> albeit with a clean empty OS atop it
<bigcalm> OSs come and go, user data is important
<daftykins> yeah, lost all the Downloads drive contents though
<daftykins> so i'm now seeding... nothing D:
<daftykins> i'll have a go at retrieving it tomorrow maybe
<bigcalm> Poop
<daftykins> yip :(
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-22
<popey> Morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<DJones> popey: Another minecraft story, sounds a good idea, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29281051
<popey> nice... goes along with popey.mooo.com/minecraft nicely
<DJones> Heh, is that the map that was mentioned on the radio a couple of weeks back, I think it was about the original OS map that had been updated using land survey info to show mor eaccurately the raw materials below ground
<foobarry> can someone explain how auto aswesome and google stories works?
<DJones> popey: This may actually be the same map, http://www.bgs.ac.uk/minecraft/#/-35328/64/62981/min/0/0
<popey> no, mine was from OS, and is flat i think
<popey> i generated that a year or more back
<popey> drwxr-xr-x 4 alan root     4096 Sep 26  2013 minecraft
<DJones> Yeah just looking at the zoomable map on bgs.ac.uk, it is differnet
<popey> spooky
<popey> almost exactly a year ago
<DJones> Heh, most of Wales looks like Extreme hills
<popey> alan@homeserver:~/minecraft$ du -hs uk
<popey> 3.2G	uk
<popey> its quite big
<popey> took an age to generate that google map too
<DJones> That later one describes it as 5.4Gb uncompressed
<popey> blimey
<DJones> Still a 369Mb download
<DJones> Think thats still the same as your map
<foobarry> ah, got it https://support.google.com/plus/answer/6027520?hl=en&ref_topic=6034292 those video montages are great
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Elephant Appreciation Day! :-D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<christel> i do appreciate a good elephant
<ujjain> Am I a UK citizen?
<zmoylan-pi> have you ever tried to vote tory? :-p
<ujjain> nope.
<ujjain> I just moved to the UK.
<foobarry> have you taken the citizenship test
<zmoylan-pi> can you play some sport well enough to compete in the olympics? :-)
<shauno> (excluding any sport we invented - we're banned from doing well at these)
<DJones> ujjain: https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizen
<ujjain> britizen citizen means you have a british nationality, right?
<DJones> ujjain: Which country is your passport issued in, thats probably the easiest check
<zmoylan-pi> you're not banned, you're too embarrassed to do well in a sport you invented, you're amazingly polite that way :-D
<ujjain> Netherlandsb
<ujjain> so am I a London citizen?
<shauno> I'd use 'resident'.  citizen has specific legal definitions
<ujjain> ah ok
<shauno> eg, I can live & work in the netherlands because I'm EU.  that doesn't make me dutch, elligible for a dutch passport, etc.  that's the leap 'citizen' usually implies
<ujjain> ah ok, right
<ujjain> I am registering to vote in the UK.
<ujjain> Do you want to include your name and address on the open register? The open register is an extract of the electoral register, but is not used for elections. It can be bought by any person, company or organisation. For example, it is used by businesses and charities to confirm name and address details.
<ujjain> why would anybody do this? this seems so privacy invasive
<foobarry> no
<ujjain> i'll select No then.
<ujjain> A polish guy tells me that your credit score does not affect your interest. Does boosting your credit score help you get lower interest?
<ujjain> btw, what would such a thing be called? http://www.voordeelmuis.nl/img/jpg/1468/1468542.jpg - frozen meal? I think something like that could help me start cooking again
<directhex> ujjain: your credit score affects your ability to secure particular credit products. someone with a bad credit score might only be offered high-interest loans, compared to someone with a good credit score finding it easier to get cheaper deals
<directhex> ujjain: and "frozen meals" are a valid term
<ujjain> ah thanks :)
<christel> i wouldn't exactly call frozen meals cooking ...
<ujjain> ahhh ok, I understand yeah
 * christel hides
<ujjain> well, I call it cooking
<ujjain> I ahvent cooked in 3 months
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> christel: +1
<daftykins> christel: how goes the server drama?
<christel> still not managed to identify the ingress point, which is a source of great frustration :)
<daftykins> doh!
<diddledan> oh dear. server drama doesn't sound fin
<diddledan> fun
<Myrtti> /motd
<diddledan> aah. yeah I updated my password on your prompting a few days ago, Myrtti .. I guess the admins are banging heads
<Myrtti> good good
<daftykins> i didn't bother
<diddledan> daftykins: :-o
<Myrtti> daftykins: :-o
<diddledan> daftykins: j00 get haxx0red!
<daftykins> lawl.
<Myrtti> 79 is the maximum length, just a reminder
<diddledan> aah my wayward youth coming through there with some elite language
<daftykins> oh man you mean i'd only be able to use half a password? :>
<diddledan> lol
<Myrtti> keepass â¥
<diddledan> I'm on lastpass but yeah
<daftykins> i don't need my hand held.
<diddledan> you do if you want a 79char secure password :-p
<daftykins> ;)
<Azelphur> Does anyone know how to stop your display config being messed up when you hard power off monitors?
<Azelphur> I attached all my monitors to one single power off switch, and when I use it it thinks the displays have been unplugged and disables them.
<diddledan> Azelphur: you can't in that scenario because you have effectively unplugged them
<diddledan> the only way a monitor can remain identifiable is if it's got power
<Azelphur> diddledan: surely there must be a way to disable that "feature"
<tripleclones> daftykins: reinstalled 14.04 on my t60 and wireless seems stable now so guess something corrupt in the upgrade
<tripleclones> thanks for your time the other night
<daftykins> tripleclones: no problem :) glad it worked out
<daftykins> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEGA-MASTER-SYSTEM-1-MEGADRIVE-1-AV-SCART-CABLE-LEAD-2-METRES-/390523248372
<daftykins> oh my...
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3z4w9kfnb23p5l9/IMG_20140921_211052.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> daftykins: thanks for the pastblast! :-p
<daftykins> anytime sir!
<diddledan> that's awesome
<daftykins> i'm just debating taking out the mega drive now, but i only have the original aerial adapter right now
<daftykins> i don't think i have an aerial cable in the house
<daftykins> oh wait i don't need one
<daftykins> idiot
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> better
<daftykins> ok here we go
<daftykins> i know this aerial socket is damaged though, but lets try it out
<daftykins> 1 channel found!
<shauno> heh.  channel 36, everyone's favourite channel :)
<daftykins> ah so it was?
<daftykins> it auto tuned that channel, but it's just blank sadly
<daftykins> well, it's more black than snow show
<diddledan> :-(
<shauno> but it goes off if you turn the console off?
<diddledan> oh dear. dominos have screwed their dns
<shauno> they've been having cookiefarts here
<shauno> I get sent into a recursive redirect until I empty my cookies
<shauno> mostly I'm just going to talk to you about cookies to make you even more hungry while dominos are revolting (heh)
<diddledan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8405547/
<diddledan> www. works, barename doesn't
<shauno> technically, that's not screwed up.  nasa actually use that setup
<shauno> (nasa.gov has mx records but no A/AAAA records)
<diddledan> >.<
<daftykins> shauno: yeah definitely getting output, it's just not visible
<daftykins> i could just pick up that ebay cable, i know the aerial socket was always trashed as when we were kids my mum tripped over it
<daftykins> we used to get the picture scrambling mid-play and rush to waggle the aerial socket to get it back again :)
<daftykins> might even just need resoldering
<shauno> have you tried a different cart?  (or .. blowing into it  heh)
<daftykins> well it might be wishful thinking, but i think i can see the Sonic main menu colours occasionally when i'm twisting the cable
<diddledan> heh. blowing them. the dance of many a boy
<daftykins> :D and it used to work!
<shauno> actually, they have headphone sockets don't they?  that'd be an ideal way to find out if it's actually booted anything
<daftykins> shauno: very true \o/
<daftykins> i shall plug some in
<diddledan> OMG
<diddledan> dominos do freshly baked donuts!
<diddledan> 4 for 2.49 or 12 for 5.99 :-p
<shauno> dude.  you know that's not a good idea.
<foobarry> "baked"
<foobarry> baked in the deep fat frier?
<diddledan> foobarry: yeah, that's the one
<diddledan> donuts rock!
<shauno> I'm trying to figure out how to put this nicely
<diddledan> fatty mc fatfat?
<shauno> okay, I'm not that bad.  but basically.
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> shauno: hmm, headphones have just static - but when i wiggle the cable just so i get about as pristine a blank black image as you're likely to get over RF - it could be that that's a good signal but the cart hasn't loaded
<daftykins> so perhaps i can disassemble and clean up the cart connector etc
<shauno> I don't know why the whole idea of 'dominos doughnuts' actually sounds more lethal than a regular doughnut
<diddledan> shauno: they do them in dozens!
<daftykins> perhaps it's something along the lines of the knock-on / knock-over impact on your health *whistle*
<shauno> I'd probably try alcohol on an earbud  (for the sega, not dinner).  no sound is not a good omen
<diddledan> vodka do?
<shauno> (not a particularly bad omen either, but the picture probably was just wishful thinking)
<MarkDude> vodka has some solids
<MarkDude> Same even with 192 proof, sugars can leave residue :)
<daftykins> shauno: indeed, pencil eraser too i had in mind i think. will try that after some food :D
<diddledan> won't an eraser damage the code?
<diddledan> like wiping out a bit here and a bit there - it'll never work again
<diddledan> or maybe it'll give you infinite lives
<shauno> go and get pizza man
<daftykins> diddledan: that's worse than my Dominoes line!
<diddledan> 9 days to go: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hullabaloo-steampunk-animated-film/x/4039834
<diddledan> 400% funded so far
<shauno> go fund oortonline.  I want more toys!
<diddledan> link?
<shauno> oortonline.com
<diddledan> aah yes
<shauno> although the weird bit they don't mention in the video, is that the current implementation is js/webgl
<diddledan> interesting
<shauno> not necessaryily advocating it, I just want them to hurry up and add more features.  like the ability to stab people.
<shauno> and player models :|  currently if you run into another person, you suddenly realise you both look like giant squares of cheeze-wizz
<daftykins> shauno: she lives! no audio on the TV, but headphones play :)
<daftykins> evidence incoming
<daftykins> resolved audio, my TV wasn't set to audio format 'I' on the channel
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1xphst9u7q20vvj/IMG_20140922_213032.jpg?dl=0
<shauno> hurrah!
<shauno> I cheat and use retropi :)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5sd5dw0voo7y593/VID_20140922_212942.mp4?dl=0
<shauno> and a logitech wireless gamepad, that sorta resembles an xbox one apparently
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> ^ used headphones above as per your idea as i didn't have audio to start with :)
<shauno> now I'm picturing a phone wearing a set of headphones :)
<shauno> so you just cleaned it?
<daftykins> yep, 6 screws out, cover off... isopropanol to slot and cart
<daftykins> there was a fair amount of black muck that came off the cart
<daftykins> pretty sure that was all there was to it
<shauno> cool :)
<shauno> glad the NES has composite output .. a lot less faffing around
<daftykins> that cable on ebay wasn't too bad though
<daftykins> <Â£5 for a mega drive DIN -> SCART
<daftykins> not sure i'm that fussed mind you :)
<shauno> it'd be neat if it did that switchy thing scart did though
<shauno> I always though it was amazing that when we turned the sky box on, the tv would switch itself to the right channel.  magic.
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> that was TV dependant, i remember my JVC UX32P10 (32" CRT) would only do that on one SCART channel
<shauno> still, how many scart channels are you using?
<diddledan> hdmi inherited that feature
<shauno> adding hdmi to a megadrive probably doesnt' go for 5 quid though :p
<daftykins> well my TV only has one SCART input via a breakout cable :)
<diddledan> hdmi is pretty much scart on the wire
<diddledan> the hd board looked at the various connection standards and took scart as the basis for hdmi so it's pretty much identical
<diddledan> just with a digital component
<shauno> I thought it was only digital components?
<diddledan> hmm, maybe I'm wrong - wiki page on scart just mentions cec as being scart-derived
<diddledan> which is the auto flippy thing
<diddledan> plus extras
<shauno> that's why a lot of consoles adapt to scart well .. it did composite and rgb in the same cable
<diddledan> cec and av.link which it was based on allows a tv to send commands down the wire to tell a recorder to start recording
<diddledan> and navigate a dvd menu on a stb-dvd-player with the tv remote
<shauno> playing games in widescreen, which weren't meant for widescreen, can be odd
<shauno> I'm playing micromachines.  and your car gets longer when you go around corners
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> weird
<daftykins> lol
<diddledan> I'd lock the aspect ratio for those methinks
<shauno> well, because it's stretched.  when you're driving left-right it's stretched, and when you're driving up-down it's not
<daftykins> i'm half trying to work out what's drawing this background colour around the mega drive picture
<shauno> wireless gamepad is the best choice I ever made for this thing though
<shauno> kneeling in front of the TV like an 8yo doesn't translate very well to 42" screens - or 33yo knees
<shauno> besides, it looks better from a distance.  what with fist-sized pixels
<daftykins> i'm finding this with this machine :)
<ali1234> for scart switching you just need to assert 12v on one of the pins, TV has to support it though
<daftykins> well, haven't even played yet - just been watching the looping demo
<daftykins> which is beginning to grate...
<ali1234> the "background" is generated by the megadrive, it is overscan
<ali1234> it's the same reason why the C64 display looks like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/C64c_system.jpg
<shauno> makes sense, it can't be random that it's picked a very dominant colour from the palette
<ali1234> the fact they are both blue is just coincidence, they are both capable of making the borders any colour they want (from their limited palettes of course)
<daftykins> ok first go, i think that's 2 seconds off the best time
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rq8vm9sql72je5m/IMG_20140922_221132.jpg?dl=0
<shauno> you're one of those?  I hunt for rings  lol
<shauno> I feel like I've failed if I don't get to do the trippy bonus stage after every level
<ali1234> WR is 0:25
<daftykins> shauno: :D ah i just felt like i'd see if i could do it still
<shauno> retropi is incredibly nifty though, if you happen to have pis laying around that never quite found as many exciting homes as you thought they would
<daftykins> shauno: :) i very nearly bought one, but gave up considering they seem mostly disappointing
<shauno> (especially since most the 16bit-era stuff is on archive.org these days)
<daftykins> i could install an emulator on my XBMC HTPC really
<daftykins> i was just over at my parents and knew this would've gotten thrown out had i not taken it home :)
<daftykins> yay just lost the last scab from my left hand at last \o/
<shauno> I wouldn't say disappointing.  I think a lot of people just overestimate how useful they'll find "spare computers"
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> there is that, but i suppose i more think of how barely satisfactory it is to run XBMC - which would've been the plan to put one in at my parents plce
<daftykins> *place
<shauno> I have one velcro'd to the back of the TV, and another that's setup as a dhcp/radvd/pxe/tftp/etc box that only comes out on special occaisions
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> I keep meaning to add a serial port to it so it can do dial-in for the amiga.  but I'm a whole lot lazier than I ever give myself credit for
<daftykins> that's the spirit!
<shauno> well, that and the chinese calendar.  this year appears to the year of the ineffective postman.  that's stalled many brights ideas
<daftykins> shauno: d'aww, how ineffective are we talking ?
<shauno> absolutely
<shauno> I got a package refused by customs because it contained knives or batteries
<shauno> their description of the rejection.  it actually contained pcb standoffs
<shauno> if they have problems with brass bolts exploding in transit, their QA has really slipped
<diddledan> knives!
<daftykins> =|
<daftykins> ex...ploding?
<diddledan> question. how does one actually import a real knife?
<shauno> ebay?
<diddledan> yeah but if they're blocking it at the port because it contains a knife or knives then how does anybody get knives into the country?
<shauno> fun question
<shauno> ireland seems to be exceptionally paranoid about importing weapons.  which is rather hilarious given their track record, but
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> just pop into a kitchen store
<daftykins> sorted
<diddledan> yeah but where does the kitchen store get them into the country?
<diddledan> how**
<shauno> a coworker had problems trying to buy a diving knife online.  even thought he was also ordering wetsuit etc in the same order
<diddledan> how does one ork a cow?
<daftykins> guy i know has a little hand-sized box that controls the fly-by-wire controls on his boat, he tried to send back one he ordered that was the wrong thing back to the retailer, HM Customs stopped it.
<shauno> I imagine there's processes for doing things "properly" rather than just popping them in the mail
<daftykins> probably including a thousand copies of the invoice on the outside of the packaging ;)
<shauno> with shipping agents, and bits of paper, and all that grownup stuff
<diddledan> kinda like "thou shalt not import all the things unless you're importing all the things"?
<daftykins> actually, Guernsey customs once stopped a friends brothers package as they thought he was dealing with rare kinds of fish
<daftykins> he'd ordered a bass guitar.
<shauno> hah
<diddledan> haha bass
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> that's inept and a half
<shauno> I want a boat.  I could lead an exciting life smuggling guitars to the channel islands!
<diddledan> until the sas blow you up
<daftykins> shauno: perhaps you could get the recipients to do you a theme tune :D
<daftykins> here comes shauno ~
<shauno> but it'd be too late!  unless they do it on a state-sanctioned casio or something
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyz_2DEah4o
<MarkDude> This is a great video- it has English subtitles. Tatica thinks more folks should tell their story of how they got in FOSS http://tatica.org/2014/09/12/ser-una-emprendedora-con-software-libre-en-el-ii-foro-de-mujeres-y-til/
<shauno> I think I should go to bed :/  really long day tomorrow.  I work from 6am, and fly at midnight.  who's a clever boy eh
<daftykins> shauno: naaaaasty
<daftykins> shauno: anything fun for the trip?
<shauno> not particularly.  I'm gonna go walk up a hill
<daftykins> ooh do tell
<shauno> there's not much more to it  lol
<shauno> apparently the done thing is to go to the top, but they put the train station at the bottom
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopok
<diddledan> silly foreigners
<daftykins> well that looks good
<daftykins> if that's the one close to Greece, my friend lives there
<daftykins> i mix up the two slo's
<diddledan> it looks like a slag heap
<shauno> it's the one next to poland, and ukraine, and hungary, and czech rep.  and austria I think
<shauno> it's easy to remember which one slovakia is.  the clue is right in 'czechoslovakia' ;)
<daftykins> my geography isn't even good enough for that to be helpful XD
<shauno> or history?
<daftykins> i'm a teensy bit young for the czech story i think yeah
<shauno> hm
<shauno> or movies?  I think that's where schlinder's list finishes
 * popey wants a new telly
<daftykins> popey: why-so sir? what do you have?
<daftykins> shauno: never watched that one :)
<shauno> oh you have to
<shauno> just for the moment when you get in a lift in Austria, and discover the leading brand is .. schindler.  schindler's lifts.
<popey> something old
<daftykins> shauno: oh. dear.
<shauno> I know :(  but .. it's true.  http://www.schindler.com/uk/internet/en/home.html
<popey> current telly is a 42" plasma, want to replace with something smaller and stick it on the wall
<daftykins> smaller!
<daftykins> LCD could save on the power too :)
<Azelphur> Hey folks, I bought this, http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/remote-controlled-mains-sockets-set-3-pack-n79ka attached my 4 monitors to it, when I turn it on, occasionally it flips the breaker in my apartment, suggestions? :(
<daftykins> hmm must be too much leakage at once
<popey> heh, i have one of those too
<popey> works a treat for shutting down the lounge at bed time
<popey> maybe put two on one plug, two on another plug, so you dont turn all four on at once
<Azelphur> yea, I guess that's the only solution for now
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-23
<mapps> yo
<daftykins> mornin'
<daftykins> just about to head off
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> sleep?
<daftykins> yeah, got the first docs appointment in the morning since hospital
<mapps> didnt know you were in hospital
<mapps> what happened?:(
<daftykins> big cycling accident
<mapps> ah damn
<daftykins> i have no memory of what happened, but i punctured a lung, broke 3 ribs and my shoulder blade on one side
<mapps> damn
<daftykins> i've been basically stuck home since i got out
<mapps> were you on your own? wearing a helmet?
<daftykins> no helmet, i was alone yeah just riding home from a place
<daftykins> i remember getting on my bike to head home, nothing after that
<mapps> damn should wear helmet when cycling man
<daftykins> first time somethings ever happened - and i ride everywhere
<daftykins> my main mode of transport
<mapps> glad youre ok ...or okish
<daftykins> cheers :)
<mapps> does sound bad mind
<daftykins> here are some pics
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/sncjvrt3y1aocla/dafty.jpg?dl=0
<mapps> any idea what happened..like hit a curb or?
<mapps> i mean to come off the bike in first instance
<daftykins> so some guy got in touch after he identified who i was, through a mate
<daftykins> he says he was driving down the huge local hill behind me
<daftykins> now i'd have been in top gear on my light mountain bike, properly giving it some
<daftykins> allegedly i rubbed the pavement and then that caused me to flip over the handlebars
<mapps> ah damn
<mapps> sucks
<daftykins> i don't even know whether i landed on road, pavement or soil
<daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbnEZ9kLP5E
<daftykins> mapps: not sure if you're at work and can't view, but that's the hill - i came off at the right-hander @ 0:42s
<mapps> will check in a sec..at home
<mapps> leaving today..:)
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> safe trip then mate, hope all goes smoothly
<daftykins> i must head up to bed i'm afraid, hopefully catch you from the other side ^_^
<mapps> thanks mate
<mapps> taxi at 03;15 flight 06;25 ..when im back here later il be there
<mapps> that is assuming i can find somewhere with wifi to take my netbook;p
<daftykins> :)
<mapps> my adsl will be 8mbit and 83quid a month which sucks
<mapps> hopefully wont be a problem taking a netbook to juse wifi:D sure it wont if i buy a few drinks
<daftykins> XD
<bob4nk]p> !xxx
<diplo> Morning all
 * zmoylan peeks out of kitchen window....
<zmoylan> only just :-)
<diplo> Half of the day gone already!
<diplo> :)
<zmoylan> autumn has landed with a damp chilly splat
<foobarry> seems to be a new wave of facebook hackings resulting in adverts about sunglasses
<zmoylan> does hacking someones facebook count as hacking considering how often facebook users forget to logout? :-)
<foobarry> people are getting their passwords hacked and then an advert is placed on the feed while tagging all their friends for maximum exposure
<foobarry> 3 people in my feed in the last hour ...quite a concnetrated attack
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Restless Legs Awareness Day! :-D
<davmor2> JamesTait: I know all about restless legs, my wife has it :(  not fun.
<JamesTait> davmor2, mine too. :(
<shauno> iron supplements!  (I basically dance in the bed without them.  and not in a good way)
<awilkins> Hmm, I may try that
<JamesTait> shauno, ORLY? I'll pass on the tip.
<awilkins> I have a fidgety leg which has created this glacier of tension on the right side of my body - leg, hip, back, shoulder
<Myrtti> shauno: have you had blood work done though? do you donate blood often?
<Myrtti> men taking iron supplements doesn't sound like a good idea to me, unless you know you've got low levels of iron
<davmor2> shauno: restless legs is a nervous condition.  JamesTait the real cure is tonic water it has quinine in it which lowers the likehood of restless legs if it is the nervous version then you might need to look at a doctors appointment
<zmoylan> does tonic water still have quinine in it, i heard they had replaced it a few years back with some substitute?
<Myrtti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_overload
<davmor2> zmoylan: should have
<JamesTait> davmor2, complicating condition in my wife's case: epilepsy.
<knightwise> Ehlo !
<davmor2> no server named
<Myrtti> I suspected that I had iron deficiency myself but I'm fairly sure it's more about lack of vitamin D than iron that I feel like I don't wake up until noon for real
<zmoylan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonic_water#Quinine_content
<JamesTait> More specifically, chronic tonic-clonic seizures, with focal temporal events and absent episodes.
<JamesTait> But epilespy is a lot easier to say.
<JamesTait> If not spell.
<zmoylan> there was a radio documentary on gin and it caught my ear about the removal of quinine
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> is this different to the IT worker syndrome where they jog their right leg up and down all day at their desk?
<zmoylan> only in offices with good aircon or really old processors :-p
<diplo> foobarry, that'll be me :D
<foobarry> we call it leg spaz
<popey> when I used to work in an office, sometimes if you stretch your legs out you'd kick the person opposite. When this happened the guy opposite me would always shout "AIRSPACE VIOLATION!"
<diplo> heh popey :)
<zmoylan> and never kick out a power cable?
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00HZAVAC0
<popey> any reason not to get that telly?
<popey> its quite fat at the back
<popey> will stick out from the wall
<foobarry> my coworker kicked over my pc and the disk died instantly
<zmoylan> is it not better to get a non smart tv and add a chromecast/rasppi/mediapc to add the smarts?
<foobarry> popey: was the airspace violation guy serious?
<Myrtti> popey: which room?
<popey> lounge
<popey> foobarry: he was humorous
<popey> zmoylan: there are very few non-smart TVs
<Myrtti> popey: we have that size, it's a tad small.
<popey> yeah, i currently have a 42"
<popey> might stick with 42, as my 42 has a gigantic bezel making it look bigger
<popey> so if i get a newer 42 with smaller bezel, it will look smaller, for same screen size
<davmor2> popey: look at the lg and samsung 42" they have tiny bezels
<popey> yeah, saw an lg one..
<foobarry> anyone got recommendations for a good unix101 course online?
<foobarry> getting lots of users wanting to use our services but instead of teaching about using the servers, we are spending 4 hrs teaching cd/ls/less/cat/pwd
<zmoylan> put some porn on a ftp server and write the ip address on toilet wall, they'll teach themselves :-p
<foobarry> they are female
<foobarry> checking out khan acamey
<foobarry> can't remember the other online unis
<zmoylan> put the works of jane austin onn ftp server... :-p
<Myrtti> foobarry: you know how I learnt Unix basics?
<foobarry> http://player.oreilly.com/videos/0636920031055?toc_id=151547
<foobarry> this looks handy
<Myrtti> IRC. Women administrated shell server that we got to run irssi/weechat/whatever on and host a small website.
<zmoylan> i installed cygwin on windows and learned enough there to familiarise myself with it so it wasn't such a shock when using linux os
<foobarry> my main issue is requiring a bunch of pre -reqs before people attend a class
<Myrtti> got an IRC channel for support and casual chat, and it was peer supported
<foobarry> i.e. watch these 5hrs of vids
<awilkins> I learned Linux by building a MythTV box. With Gentoo.
<zmoylan> find some way to make it in their interest to learn is ultimately the answer.  do you not have documentation done to show newbies how to use your services without needing another person present?
<zmoylan> 'with gentoo' +10 difficulty :-)
<shauno> kids these days.  I just went though /bin trying to figure out what everything was.  eventually I figured out where manpages live (man man!) so I could just start reading everything.
<foobarry> these are not technical people
<foobarry> but their professors are requiring them to do technical things
<foobarry> they are not self starters or interested in tech
<Myrtti> foobarry: website and chat. Seriously. Get the social aspect in.
<Myrtti> if they have a peer support thing going on, they can figure stuff out easier, and it's part of the experience
<shauno> I think I'd agree with that.  they need something to call a goal.  trying to learn something they're not interested in, without something they are interested in to apply it to .. talk about uphill
<foobarry> maybe i didn't explain myself. i was looking for video resources on how to ensure people have basic unix101 training before attending a workshop . think i'll watch these oreilly ones first and then look around online uni sites
<Myrtti> and I was trying to tell you that video resources probably won't do zilch if they haven't had a chance of doing all the stuff the videos try to cover.
<zmoylan> i'd suspect if they're non tech people and don't really seem motivated to learn that no matter how good the video tutorial it'll have minimum effect :-/
<foobarry> ok the oreilly guy covered in 2 mins what it took us 4hrs yesterday
<foobarry> they would be encouraged to load a vm in vurtalbox
<foobarry> and try a few lab exercises themselves
<foobarry> oh no, he's suggesting emacs
<foobarry> i'd give kids nano
 * zmoylan seconds nano
<zmoylan> and not even just for kids
<foobarry> this is quite a poor vid
<Myrtti> foobarry: I'd have a central vm that you make everyone accounts for, everyone has a public_html dir. Some templates for webpages, that they're encouraged to cat to see if the information is correct, move the files to the correct dir, edit them with nano, check they're in the right directory, change the file permissions...
<foobarry> however, i don't want to teach them that stuff
<foobarry> i want them to know it as a pre requisite
<Myrtti> have a skeleton config for a CLI irc client that connects to a network and a specific support channel
<Myrtti> then they can ask for help from others in that channel
<Myrtti> slap minimum instructions on a wiki that they can modify themselves
<Myrtti> and maybe put a link to a video.
<foobarry> yes, ultimately we will say
<Myrtti> html template would be like basic "hello world, this is me"-site
<foobarry> the goal is to know enough to use the cluster
<foobarry> average undergrads are very weak on using computers
<foobarry> they own them and live in the browser
<foobarry> even file structure is unknown, they use search
<foobarry> and they google for urls
<arsen> Woo, ive got a new dedi :)
<arsen> As a general infrastructure design question - if i have one dedi host, one public IP and i'm looking to seperate some web services/email/etc via some form of virtualisation (probably kvm, but maybe kvm via proxmox) - any thoughts as to the best way to setup the networking/webservers etc to differentiate incoming traffic to different vms?
<shauno> for webservers, nginx
<arsen> i guess i could nat all the VMs, and use the vm host to portforward - but not sure how that helps with different domains to different vms
<directhex> Complicated(tm)
<shauno> exactly the same way people use it to pass different folders off to different backends, you can have it hand off different hostnames to different IPs.  so you have nginx running on the public IP, and it passes requests to internal IPs
<shauno> almost every other service is much more difficult.  http is easy because they pass the hostname in the request, so you can route on that
<arsen> my thoughts, directhex :)
<arsen> yeah i think you're right shauno
<arsen> theoretically i can add another public IP or two, not much cost
<directhex> yeah i'd use reverse proxy in apache, dunno hoiw to in nginx
<shauno> it's about the same.  looks just like a vhost setup, but with a line proxy_pass http://10.etc.etc/
<arsen> the web stuff is relatively straight forward i guess
<Myrtti> this whole conversation reminds me of my issue of trying to decide on a wedsite domain name
<arsen> its things like email and other random web apps that get fuzzy
<arsen> Myrtti  - always something random web related, as a holding name - then add specific domains for purposes :p
<Myrtti> arsen: currently we have wedding.<hislastname>.me.uk. You can guess where my issue is.
<arsen> you're not married to him?
<Myrtti> he doth protest equally much when I suggested <Finnish for weddings>.myrtti.fi
<shauno> "dot me dot uk" is a pain to read out on the phone because it doesn't ring a bell with a whole lot of people :/
<Myrtti> arsen: I haven't decided if I'll take his last name or not
<arsen> ah :)
<arsen> you should - its a nice gesture :D
<arsen> my gf doesnt like the idea either, but she will come round to it >:D
<Myrtti> I don't give a rats ass about the gesture, just like I don't much care for having a wedding with 60+ guests on the list.
<shauno> why not do both (sites)? point both names to the same place, and have it serve english or finnish versions of the same site :)
<zmoylan> a true romantic :-)
<Myrtti> practical Nordic, I'd say
<zmoylan> true, true
<davmor2> Myrtti: just alias the one site to the other and auto translate ;)
<Myrtti> most of my professional profile is built on my nickname so I don't really care that much about losing my last name, but it still has some value
<Myrtti> also, renewing passports etc.
<Myrtti> right hassle
<Myrtti> if you want a gesture of being together and believing that this will last - I've hauled my junk from Finland to UK. I think it shows some kind of dedication and trust.
<arsen> Myrtti  - my other half wants <firstname> <middlename> <her lasstname> <my last name>
<Myrtti> arsen: would her last name be a middlename?
<zmoylan> ah the grand hyphen :-)
<arsen> i think she's thinking of a double barrreled surname
<arsen> im going to argue for middle name, and she can choose to refer to herself as she likes :)
<shauno> hm.  I think I'll file that one under "if you can't say anything nice .." ;)
<arsen> the family name must live on!
<Myrtti> or a hyphenated version? right. I'm trying to play the game with Finnish laws in mind
<Myrtti> so I can't add it as a middle name
<Myrtti> as I'm already maxxed out on those
<arsen> ah, lol
<arsen> here you can do as you like :)
 * zmoylan just wants to use mononym but not allowed here
<Myrtti> If I had my way and didn't care about the Finnish laws, I'd have added Myrtti as my middle name good 8 years ago
<Myrtti> but Finnish laws state I can have only three given names, so there we are
<shauno> it could be worse.  icelandic law would give you a list of what those names are allowed to be
<Myrtti> yup
<zmoylan> poor harriet
<Myrtti> Finnish law also states that one can't give a girl a boys name and vice versa
<shauno> poor Sue!
<arsen> i don't have a middle name, oh well :D
<Myrtti> and all that don't confirm to a set list go through a committee
<shauno> I just pretend I don't, because I can't spell it :|
<arsen> anyone have any reason to advise me against playing with proxmox?
<smittix> Morning all
<davmor2> Myrtti: I have 4 :P this is why England Rocks ;)
<Myrtti> davmor2: dsample has... five. It bit him in the ass once at the airport because his flight tickets were for a different name than stated on the passport, and the checkin had to be done manually.
<Myrtti> probably has multiple other times too, I just don't know about them
<davmor2> Myrtti: although people look at my bank card suspiciously MR DAVID MR MORLEY.
<Myrtti> davmor2: I'm having a long term name problem anyway with his surname - if we have a daughter I was planning to give her my mother's middle name. But that would make her a "A SAMPLE" and that bodes well with the Science Museum exhibit in mind and all. https://www.flickr.com/photos/duncansample/3809419958/
<davmor2> Myrtti: that's a lot of blood she'd have to give right there ;)
<arsen> eugh goddamn macs. random irregular 2-3second freezes and no evidence as to what :<
<foobarry> top, iostat, iotop, vmstat
<arsen> yeah, i suspect its chrome related :/
<zmoylan> repeat browsing in different browser to confirm?
<Azelphur> just to confirm I'm doing this right, blocking 183.252.52.* is iptables -A INPUT -s 183.252.52.0/24 -j DROP right?
<davmor2> arsen: always assume it's chrome ;)
<Seeker`> woo, netflix on linux \o/
<brobostigon> how?
<foobarry> its all over g+
<foobarry> they fixed it
<foobarry> also, android apps on chrome
<Seeker`> brobostigon: you running 14.10 yet?
<popey> \o/
<brobostigon> Seeker`: no.
<Seeker`> brobostigon: then there has been (or will be shortly) a security update with a new version of libnss3
<Seeker`> get that, and you can watch netflix on chrome
<brobostigon> Seeker`: ok.
<brobostigon> cool.
<Seeker`> not sure if you'll still need a beta build of chrome or not on that version of ubuntu
<zmoylan> there goes the bandwidth :-/
<Seeker`> but it basically works with an apt-get install google-chrome in 14.10
<Seeker`> hallo mr popey
<popey> the update was done
<popey> its up to netflix now to remove the UA bodge
<brobostigon> !package libnss3 unstable
<lubotu3> brobostigon: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<foobarry> i've never looked at netflix
<popey> popcorntime is interesting
<foobarry> although it seems to have less programmes than you would expect
<popey> s/less/fewer/
<zmoylan> i'd get a tv before i got netflix
<foobarry> they give the impression they have everything
<popey> i mostly use netflix on my desktop monitor via chromecast
<popey> controlled from phone/tablet
<brobostigon> !show libnss3 unstable
<lubotu3> brobostigon: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<foobarry> !info libnss3
<lubotu3> libnss3 (source: nss): Network Security Service libraries. In component main, is optional. Version 2:3.17-0ubuntu0.14.04.1 (trusty), package size 1030 kB, installed size 3358 kB
<brobostigon> !info libnss3 unstable
<lubotu3> libnss3 (source: nss): Network Security Service libraries. In component main, is optional. Version 2:3.17-1 (unstable), package size 1156 kB, installed size 3790 kB
<foobarry> !info libnss3 utopic
<lubotu3> libnss3 (source: nss): Network Security Service libraries. In component main, is optional. Version 2:3.17-1ubuntu1 (utopic), package size 1148 kB, installed size 3786 kB
 * popey just installed Ubuntu 10.10 Netbook Remix.
<foobarry> for the lolz?
<popey> partly
<popey> need a screenshot
<foobarry> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=omgubuntu+10.10+netbook+remix&biw=1266&bih=655&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=d3ghVLHRA8S07QaKjYCgCw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoBA
<Seeker`> wow, I've been on this network for almost 8 years now
<davmor2> popey: man that is an old bug ;)
<popey> yes, thatis indeed 10.10
<foobarry> that reminds me of my ausus 701
<Azelphur> Seeker`: I still have IRC logs from '06 :)
<Seeker`> Azelphur: horder :P
 * brobostigon uses his eeepc 900 (with updated bios) to test haiku on.
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> what does the updated bios do?
<Seeker`> Azelphur: and logs of you blowing up any Arduino you went near I assume?
<Seeker`> :P
<popey> 2006 is not that long ago
<Azelphur> Seeker`: hey, I GOT THAT ARDUINO WORKING AGAIN AND MADE IT DO FLASHING LIGHTS.
<Azelphur> so ner.
<Seeker`> I was still at uni in 2006
<brobostigon> popey: solves a bug, where haiku wouldnt boot, because the bios would report false information.
<Azelphur> Seeker`: recently I've been doing home automation...that trips the breaker in my flat occasionally when I use it :<
<Seeker`> Azelphur: try not to blow up your house :P
<Azelphur> easier said than done :P
<popey> ahh
<brobostigon> i found and solved the bug, :)
<Laney> STOP SAYING FRIENDS
<Laney> FOR ATOAHETOH$)%Â£)$&*%
<directhex> ?
<Azelphur> friends.
<directhex> romans
<Azelphur> acquaintances?
<Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29310512
<foobarry> gromiiiiit
<davmor2> foobarry: and a nice piece of wensleydale
<diddledan> my inner-geek love this : http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/09/23/elevator-into-space-japanese-firm-determined-to-proceed-with-bold-engineering
<shauno> diddledan: your inner geek loves linking to fox news?  :(
<diddledan> nono, the content of said link
<diddledan> or rather the content of the target of said link
<shauno> this bag is nowhere near as big as I remember it.  so I'm trying to figure out how much clothing I can realistically wear on the flight
<DJones> shauno: That sounds like you're tryung to say that the clothing has just gotten bigger
<shauno> :(
<DJones> I've had that problem, clothing in a large size takes up more space than the same number of items in a small size
<diddledan> DJones: I found that about my belly, too
<shauno> but ryanair don't do pay-per-belly (yet)
<DJones> now you've mentioned it, they probably will start, they charge everything else
<shauno> part of me thinks it'd be fair.  more weight more fuel etc
<shauno> or at least give us wee guys more baggage allowance :)
<shauno> if there's space for dan's beard, there's space for me to have a second bag!
<DJones> Actually, they have thought about it http://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/apr/22/ryanair-obese-fat-tax
<shauno> the common issue with ryanair is a lot of the time, "considering" something means lettering their loud-mouth CEO wind up the press for free advertising
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> lettering?  you know what I mean :)
<popey> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/09/feds-label-bitcoin-miner-maker-butterfly-labs-as-systematic-deception/
<ali1234> about time
<diddledan> I don't like the response from BFL about vindicating bitcoin as if the currency itself is being questioned, which it isn't
<diddledan> it looks to me that the problem is just a straight-forward fraud claim
<ali1234> correct
<ali1234> BFL was nothing but a scam outfit from the start
<ali1234> they are experts at deflecting criticism
<phillw> AlanBell: ping
<daftykins> bit late :)
<phillw> daftykins: why ?
<daftykins> i figure such chaps are in bed by now!
<phillw> it's only just gone midnite... but.... okies, I'll wait for a pong :)
<shauno> midnight's almost like a shift change around here.  the strange people come out ;)
<daftykins> shauno: ^5
<daftykins> now we just need diddledan
<phillw> yeah, but I needed a community member to ask advice from
<daftykins> "when shall we 3 meet again" - "er, midnight"
<daftykins> oh, not general ubuntu advice then?
<shauno> phillw: oh understood.  not saying don't ask, it's just a tip :)
<phillw> daftykins: no, a burn out of a community memeber..... must more important
<phillw> shauno: ^^
<phillw> s/must/much
<daftykins> AlanBell: ah you dropped, ping x 2 from phillw *points*
<phillw> AlanBell: you about >
<phillw> not my sos, but a fellow ubuntu person
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-24
<popey> well!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Myrtti> moin
<brobostigon> guten morgen Myrtti
<ali1234> remember the old update manager that didn't pop up and steal focus at 7:45 EVERY DAY? it just had an indicator when there were updates
<ali1234> is that still available somewhere?
<Myrtti> you can change it to notify once a week...
<Myrtti> but yeah, that notification icon would be lovely
<Myrtti> well. It's a good thing I didn't strip the bed for washing the bedsheets...
 * jussi01 waves
<DJones> popey: Have you updated your map yet? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29330265
<DJones> 23GB free disk space. The full world is approximately 20GB uncompressed.
<DJones> bigcalm: May something your interested in as well ^^
 * brobostigon will need to get his external hdd out, for enough space to download it.
<Myrtti> aw man
<Myrtti> my laptop has a dead bright pixel
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Punctuation Day! :-D
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<popey> DJones: download link?
<DJones> http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/innovate/developers/minecraft-map-britain.html
<foobarry> Myrtti: thats the most annoying thing
<Myrtti> foobarry: the dead bug is more annoying - it's bigger
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> i've been bitten alive by bugs lately
<foobarry> must have 25 bites on me
<diddledan> foobarry: you must be tasty
<DJones> popey: Just downloaded & tried, there's no readme file in the zip archive, but I just dumped it into my saves folder & unziped & works fine
<foobarry> my wife says she doesn't get them because marmite
<diddledan> foobarry: yeah they get their feet stuck in marmite if you plaster yourself with it
<diddledan> :-p
<dutchie> foobarry: :(
<dutchie> i have a nice big ulcer on my tongue
<foobarry> i'm due some ulcers after eating pringles
<foobarry> mouth is too narrow for 5 at once
<dutchie> heh
<foobarry> http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/23/6834755/samsung-to-end-laptop-sales-in-europe
<foobarry> including chromebooks
<directhex> weird. i thought chromebooks sold well
<diddledan> ALL laptop sales?
<diddledan> wow
<ujjain> in the UK you can withdraw from most ATM's for free right? I heard in the US sometimes a bank rquires you to use its own ATMs, I just signed up for Nationwide Plus, so just curious if I coud be charged using Lloyds ATms
<diplo> ujjain, yes most are free, you get charged for using some third party ones but most banks don't charge now
<diplo> It tells you on the ATM anyway
<ujjain> ah great
<DJones> czajkows1i: You need to get yourself one of the http://goo.gl/SZYlXV
<ujjain> right, some atms in clubs charge like 2 pounds
<czajkows1i> DJones: oh I do indeed
<czajkows1i> DJones: instead I give you https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/514487093129908225/photo/1
<diplo> ujjain, yeah and places like Theme parks etc and some pubs
<DJones> czajkows1i: I saw that last night as twitter scrolled past, very worrying
<diplo> and events, but places like Supermarkets, banks etc all are free
<foobarry> the builder who is quoting our extension says we need to get the party wall agreement sorted...what does that mean?
<Myrtti> do you share a wall with a neighbour?
<Myrtti> do you plan to share?
<DJones> foobarry: http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/mar/14/home-extensions-plans-party-wall
<Myrtti> mmm. or that
<foobarry> the extension will go to the boundary
<Myrtti> there you go then.
<Myrtti> "You need to serve notice on all the owners of every neighbouring property affected by the works, both freeholders and leaseholders."
<foobarry> seems confusing as i thought the planning permission covers this
<DJones> https://www.gov.uk/party-wall-etc-act-1996-guidance "The act covers new building on or at the boundary of 2 properties"
<foobarry> since the council write to the neighbours
<aquarius> that "cat" in the topic looks like a koala. :)
<foobarry> http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=17392
<foobarry> replacement for truecrypt
<diddledan> foobarry: too late for me - I've moved to encfs
<directhex> i just keep all my naked selfies on iCloud, so i don't have any false sense of security from using an encrypted filesystem
<diddledan> directhex: this isn't for naked selfies - those I don't encrypt
<diddledan> directhex: this is for things like ssh certs
<diddledan> I need them on all my systems but there's no reasonable way of doing that without a third-party involved (that I've found)
<directhex> just store it on github. use quadruple-rot13 for encryption
<diddledan> yey http://www.geek.com/apple/iphone-6s-are-being-bent-in-peoples-pockets-including-mine-1605177/
<foobarry> meh
<foobarry> "pressure of fabric against your skin"
<foobarry> = being sat on?
<Myrtti> tight jeans and front pocket
<foobarry> lots of forces applying pressure
<Myrtti> bend to sit, the fabric goes taught
<shauno> doesn't this happen every year?  every time there's a new iphone, people suddenly re-discover that when you bend things, they bend
<zmoylan-pi> apple will have to give all users a free titanium non bendy case :-)
<zmoylan-pi> or are they going to say that they're meant to bend?
<diddledan> they're not meant to not bend
<foobarry> they aren't meant to be subjected to warping forces
<zmoylan-pi> what % put their phone in their pocket?
<diddledan> the majority?
<zmoylan-pi> probably for teenagers and those in 20s maybe but i suspect it falls after that
<directhex> chances are, when field-testing the phone, everyone had it in a bulky case designed to hide its true shape
<directhex> also, all apple staff wear tan-colored cargo trousers, which have deep loose pockets
<zmoylan-pi> and they didn't have it going through enough bars in hipsters pockets this release :-)
<shauno> mine lives in my pocket.  I just don't extend that to sitting on them
<Azelphur> My coat has a phone pocket, I put it in there
<zmoylan-pi> i reckon my nokia dumbphone will be safe in my back pocket when i occasionly stick it there it i'm not wearing a fleece/jacket with pockets
<shauno> lol.  your nokia dumbphone will be safe when only cockroaches rule the world
<Azelphur> nothing wrong with nokia dumb phones if it's all you want :)
<Azelphur> http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/226/893/tumblr_lwve5bG5781qewacoo1_r1_500.jpg :P
<zmoylan-pi> i did use one of it's predecessors a nokia n70 to bang a nail into a door frame to make a point to my boss about how a crappy nokia was better than his shiny new ruggedised pocket pc
<shauno> I had a friend with a 'ruggedised' phone a good 7-8 years ago.  chocolate-block style but dressed up so it looked like it was a car tyre
<shauno> he dropped it in a pint to prove it was waterproof.  it never worked again
<zmoylan-pi> my boss dropped his pocket pc onto carpet and battery shook lose.  i threw the n70 at ceiling knocking out tile and let it bounce off floor on way down and it was grand
<Azelphur> I've tipped a bottle of water over my LG G Watch :D
<Azelphur> and taken it in the shower once
<shauno> this kinda stuff cracks me up though; http://forums.androidcentral.com/htc-one-m8/381873-bent-m8.html
<shauno> bend your android phone, it's a "curiousity".  bend an iphone, and it's bend-gate!
<Azelphur> shauno: I'm sure you could find similar posts about the iphone 5 ;)
<shauno> oh I know you can
<directhex> www.lg.com/us/mobile-phones/gflex !
<Azelphur> hehe
<directhex> shauno: "bendghazi"
<Azelphur> I'm trying to find out what power supply a Mad Catz Strike 7 keyboard takes, nowhere seems to mention it, frustrating.
<daftykins> Azelphur: no power specs written on the device?
<Azelphur> daftykins: it says "Operating voltage 5V" but that could mean practically anything since it's not the input.
<daftykins> :/
<daftykins> weird
<daftykins> nothing beside the socket at all?
<Azelphur> daftykins: nope, the socket is just a wire
<Azelphur> ie there's a wire that comes out of the keyboard with a female socket for you to plug the power into
<daftykins> oh that's weird
<Azelphur> the G19 does the same thing
<diddledan> what does it say on the wall-wart they provided?
<Azelphur> wall-wart?
<daftykins> mains adapter
<Azelphur> I don't have it, if I had it that'd make life a whole lot easier ;)
<daftykins> i suspect Azelphur has been without from the start
<Azelphur> indeed
<diddledan> seems odd to me to provide a powered keyboard without an adapter
<daftykins> i suspect it's second hand ;)
<Azelphur> indeed
<diddledan> you could get a multivolt adapter and try your luck
<Azelphur> diddledan: well was hoping to know without trying my luck and destroying it :P
<Azelphur> although, I think it's broken already tbh.
<diddledan> but if it's 5v internally then I suspect it'll be 5v input
<foobarry> wow. #muslimapologies is the oddest hashtag i ever read
<diddledan> foobarry: is it bad?
<foobarry> its weird. supposed to be ironic messages from muslims "aplogising" for things they shouldn't have to apologise for
<diddledan> Azelphur: it won't be less than 5v because that's what it uses internally, so assuming it's 5v input your only concern is the polarity
<Azelphur> indeed, that was my thinking
<diddledan> I get the impression that most DC adapters these days are + on the inner-pole
 * zmoylan-pi sees diddledan in immediate future holding smoking piece of hardware cursing that assumption :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I tend to check like Azelphur is doing
<Azelphur> hehe
<diddledan> if it's unclear then I'll only use the same brand of adapter
<diddledan> e.g. most netgear boxes for consumerland tend to be the same power requirements
<Azelphur> oh well, I gotta go for now, if anyone happens to find it let me know :)
<popey> Azelphur: open it up and see where the wire goes, will be very easy to see which is +ve and which is -ve
<popey> -ve will go to some ground plane, +ve may well even be marked on the board, and will go to the power pins of whatever ICs are in it
<Myrtti> Dear Agony Aunt, am I normal? I'm a 34 years old nerd and I'm considering making the information leaflet to be included with the wedding invitations with LaTeX. PLZ REPLY SOON!!!111 xxx Myrtti xxx
<directhex> using LaTeX makes you a fetishist
<diddledan> some people have allergies. you gotta remember that
<diddledan> so for them you'll have to use something other than LaTeX
<zmoylan-pi> putting the details in a qr code so guests can scan the info directly into their phones makes you a nerd
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: don't give her ideas!
<zmoylan-pi> with klingon translation... :-p
<directhex> QR code confetti
<Myrtti> QR is already a given, I'm marrying this man https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mobile-barcoder/?src=userprofile
<diddledan> Duncan Sample? that's a rare surname.
<foobarry> saw a brochure the other day that had a page full of QR codes in such low res that none of them worked. obviously the people putting it together had no clue what a QR code was and how to test it
<directhex> http://picturesofpeoplescanningqrcodes.tumblr.com/
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> is that indicative that nobody scans qr codes?
<foobarry> i scanned one at oggcamp once
<foobarry> because the url was so long
<directhex> diddledan: yes
<zmoylan-pi> i take pics of them and scan them when i get home :-)
<popey> i know someone who has a qr code for their wifi
<popey> so you just scan it and you're connected without having to type the pw in
<foobarry> how does that work?
<foobarry> oh cool
<popey> standard feature on android
<popey> she has it hanging in her lounge
<daftykins> i was gonna do that for mine
<popey> she also but an nfc tag behind the picture
<daftykins> but really i don't want everyone jumping on mine :D
<popey> well, it's on the inside of her house
<foobarry> good if you have multiple SSID
<diplo> I like that idea popey, may have to look at doing that!
<popey> if strangers are in her lounge, she has bigger things to worry about
<foobarry> visitors SSID
<popey> yeah
<popey> shame ubuntu phone doesn't do that yet
<popey> i have to type the silly long key in
<daftykins> i have friends of friends pop by sometimes, wouldn't necessarily want them all :)
<foobarry> what phones will ubuntu phone work on?
<popey> it currently works on nexus 4
<popey> new phone will be available very soon
<foobarry> i was hoping my next phone would be ubuntu but i ran out of waiting time
<zmoylan-pi> i just tell people i'll email them the wifi key :-)
<popey> is the wifi key your email address? â»
<diplo> And done!
<diplo> Will test it when I get home :)
 * popey needs to finish his talk for xda developer conf
 * dutchie needs to finish oggcamp talk
 * popey is re-using his xda talk for oggcamp â»
<davmor2> popey: cheapskate, we'll start calling you jono ;)
<arsen> anyone have virgin's 152Mb cable?
<arsen> theoretically i've had it a few days - but i cant say ive seen speed change at all.
<awilkins> I have the 60 and rarely get above ~ 25-30Mbit/s
<awilkins> Because this is mostly OK for my needs, I haven't bothered complaining
<awilkins> But "speed" is a vague definition
<arsen> i "had" 60, and usually got 60ish
<awilkins> Latency? You're unlikely to see improvements
<arsen> i now "have" 152, apparently... and i'm getting 50-60 still :D
<awilkins> Yeah, but is the limit at your end, or the server?
<davmor2> I had the 60 it got upgraded so now I'm on 100 I get between 80-100 normally but it can be fairly low sometimes depending on the site
<popey> i ave 100 now...
<popey> well ~105
 * foobarry installing MAAS
<popey> MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS
<awilkins> Monkeys As A Service?
<Laney> MAAS as a service
<diddledan> yey monkeys!
<diddledan> I expect shakespear in a week
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/MzdbQSj.jpg
<diddledan> what you doing?
<diddledan> lotsa putes
<foobarry> we haz 20 computers
<diddledan> \o/
<foobarry> for running openstack testing
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> not for bitcoining then ? :-p
<foobarry> nah, not my thing
<diddledan> dual network? red + blue?
<diddledan> it's annoying that switch vendors are shoving extra fibre ports on them to justify keeping the price high
<diddledan> I see 4 on that unit?
<foobarry> AFAIK u need dual homed nodes
<NET||abuse> anyone try gnome alongside unity here?
<NET||abuse> i'm dying to try it again, been 2 years since i've looked
<NET||abuse> but i can't risk my unity environment.
<NET||abuse> is 13.10 or 13.12 stable enought to install and run in tandem with unity?
<NET||abuse> i'm on 14.04..
<diddledan> and this is an example of why version numbers on their own are useless - try being more explicit :-)
<diddledan> 13.10 == saucy. 13.12 == beta of trusty?
<NET||abuse> blurg, sorry, haha, no, Gnome versions 13.10 and 13.12.. not ubuntu versions
<diddledan> >.<
<NET||abuse> :)
<popey> i think you mean 3.10 and 3.12
<NET||abuse> ..... arrg
<NET||abuse> i want to stab my own face through the internet now
<diddledan> here, let me do that for you
<diddledan> *pokity poke poke*
<NET||abuse> so back to the question,, has anyone installed Gnome 3.10 or 3.12 alongside unity on ubuntu 14.04?
<NET||abuse> any experience on the install proceedure, or making sure your unity doesn't 'splode on you:?
<diddledan> if you have the space to spare I'd suggest dual-booting with ubuntu-gnome (is that the right name?)
<diddledan> http://ubuntugnome.org/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Is there a utility to test the health of an SSD?
<awilkins> Standard disk utility?
<awilkins> The cogwheely thing has a SMART / selftest menu
<bigcalm> The what?
<awilkins> For each disk, there is a button with a cogwheel when you select it
<bigcalm> Okay
<awilkins> Mine says 1 bad sector
<bigcalm> I'll reboot into Ubuntu and hope the system stays stable long enough to run a test
<awilkins> Not sure eSata supports full SMART
<awilkins> Or maybe SSD doesn't support it
<awilkins> Lots more stats on my spinning rust
<diddledan> usb doesn't support smart usually afaict
<diddledan> esata should be just as capable as internal sata - it's only a different connector otherwise the same
<awilkins> Nope... not sure if this eSATA port is just a USB one mounted on a header inside the case or not
<awilkins> But some SMART
<awilkins> So I guess it's just that the disk doesn't support some metrics
<awilkins> 841 power cycles!
<awilkins> 1 failed sector
<diddledan> a lot of the standard hdd smart stuff is not needed on ssd so they just don't expose it
<ali1234> NET||abuse: ubuntu heavily patches gtk which causes a lot of problems in gnome
<ali1234> but the patches are only active if unity is installed
<ali1234> installing gnome along side unity is unlikely to break unity and very likely to break gnome
<diddledan> yey?
<diddledan> :-p
 * bigcalm drums fingers
<bigcalm> Self-test in progress -- 90% remaining
<bigcalm> It's been like that for a while
<bigcalm> Air temp has increased from 37C to 42C
<bigcalm> Is there any need for swap these days?
<bigcalm> Oo, 20% done
<popey> bigcalm: depends what you do with the computer
<bigcalm> popey: what's it good for?
<bigcalm> I don't use sleep or hibinate
<NET||abuse> so nobobdy tried gnome 3.xx in tandem with unity on 14.04?
<NET||abuse> i know you suggested using gnome respin, but I don't have the disk space.
<NET||abuse> certainly not the will to repartition :)
<intrbiz> bigcalm: I generally don't bother with swap
<bigcalm> intrbiz: collecting the keys to our new house on Monday. Unlikely that I'll be attending badminton :S
<intrbiz> bigcalm: no worries, seems like an important excuse
<bigcalm> Contracts were exchanged today. Flipping stressful time
<bigcalm> Ta
<intrbiz> bigcalm: and then you've got to move
<bigcalm> intrbiz: We gave our 1 month notice to our landlady today. So we have a little time
<bigcalm> But the sooner we're out, the less I have to spend on bills for 2 properties
<intrbiz> sure
<intrbiz> bigcalm: how is the ssd?
<bigcalm> intrbiz: still running the SMART test
<bigcalm> The machine hasn't frozen yet
<intrbiz> bigcalm: right, is it hanging or panicing?
<bigcalm> I'm going to reinstall Ubuntu later just to be on the safe side and see how it copes tomorrow
<bigcalm> intrbiz: the system appears to slow down over about 10 seconds and then freezes. Have to do a hard reset to use the machine again
<bigcalm> Thing is, once I've done a hard reset, it works for the rest of the day without problem
<intrbiz> bigcalm: got swap? how much ram?
<bigcalm> 8gb ram. Swap is 4.3gb, but swap is off
<bigcalm> intrbiz: the freezing happens even if I do nothing with the system
<bigcalm> What should I look for in syslog?
<bigcalm> I assume that syslog is where kernel panics go
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh nice on the house keys dude :)
<intrbiz> bigcalm: often a panic only get logged to the console
<DJones> bigcalm: Whats the issue with the SSD? Its not a silly boot issue where half the time it fails to boot & goes into a text loop is it?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: the last thing in messages before the report might be of interest
<bigcalm> DJones: I don't know if there's a problem with the SSD. Just something worth checking
<intrbiz> bigcalm: have you tried running memtest, might be worth ruling out dodgy memory
<bigcalm> intrbiz: yep, left it running for 2 passes (that takes a long time). No errors
<intrbiz> bigcalm: hmm, ok
<bigcalm> syslog - http://paste.ubuntu.com/8419845/
<bigcalm> There's not /var/log/messages in Ubuntu :| Does it all get sent to syslog instead?
<bigcalm> lastlog and faillog are just full of ^@
<intrbiz> bigcalm: /var/log/syslog is essentially /var/log/messages, different files names in different distros
<bigcalm> Right
<bigcalm> SSD check just finished and it passed okay from what I can see
<bigcalm> dmesg.0 doesn't show anything helpful that I can see
<bigcalm> Xorg.0.log.old - http://paste.ubuntu.com/8419888/
<bigcalm> It's not included at the bottom of that paste, but it's full of ^@ when I view the file with less
<bigcalm> What other logs might I look at?
<daftykins> what's the SMART data on the SSD? smartctl -a /dev/sdX
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8419943/
<intrbiz> bigcalm: smart looks fine
<popey> \o/ six giffgaff SIMs active!
<popey> thats 8 total in this house
<popey> ETOOMANYPHONENUMBERS
<daftykins> bigcalm: ah have you read about the firmware bug with them, it was meant to only be causing poor read speeds after 6+ months of use, but there may well be an update available
<daftykins> ah they must not have released it yet
<davmor2> popey: thanks god for addressbooks right ;)
<popey> heh
<davmor2> popey: it's the best quiz in the world http://www.buzzfeed.com/hannahjewell/can-you-guess-how-old-these-kittens-are?bffbuk#4g9h0q8
<popey> 15 out of 15
<foobarry> haven't got any cashback  on Gigggaff in yonks
<foobarry> i fear my new phone results in requiring new data plan cos i'm browsingn faster now
<daftykins> haha
<popey> my father in law just bought iphone for him and m-i-l
<popey> i sent him a couple of giffgaff sims for them
<daftykins> another pair lost ;)
<foobarry> my gg sim was old as not a push-out microsim option, so i had to cut with scissors
<foobarry> just roughly cut round another micro sim. seems to work ok
<daftykins> i was in a similar situation when i bought my Nexus 4. i popped along the high-street here, my telco didn't offer any help but a mate works in a rival telco and chopped it down with a glorified holepunch for me \o/
<popey> yeah, i cut my first sim manually when i switched from htc hero to iphone
<foobarry> htc hero AKA jimmy hill
<diddledan> joy. amazon aws/ec2 two days' notice of reboot
<zmoylan-pi> what, are they running windows or something? :-)
<diddledan> amazon?
<diddledan> I would figure they're running amazon linux
<intrbiz> diddledan: I got about 1 months notice for a reboot on mine
<diddledan> intrbiz: we did on another machine but this is specifically highlighted as short-notice
<intrbiz> diddledan: does it have local storage?
<diddledan> the email is subjectified: "Near-term AWS maintenance event notice"
<diddledan> they also state "You will not be able to stop/start or re-launch instances in order to avoid this maintenance update."
<intrbiz> right
<intrbiz> where do ubuntu folk tend to put there server ssl certs / keys?
<diddledan> intrbiz: I believe we're moving to /srv/domain.example.com/ssl with the related website at .../htdocs
<diddledan> but that's just my co
<diddledan> not an official word
<intrbiz> diddledan: ok
<intrbiz> diddledan: I personally do /etc/apache2/ssl.key and /etc/apache2/ssl.crt
<diddledan> the problem with that is you're then limited to one cert
<diddledan> so you can't vhost
<intrbiz> they are folders containing domain.name.crt or domain.name.key
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> I figured files
<intrbiz> sorry, I should have been clearer
<diddledan> I shouldn't have assumed - "assumption is the mother of all flip-ups"
<intrbiz> diddledan: it sure is, but I'm fairly sure life without assumptions is impossible
<intrbiz> or at least rather impractical
<diddledan> and now I need to find somewhere that has that movie
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> (Under Siege 2: Dark Territory)
<diddledan> and yes that is from memory
<diddledan> :-p
<intrbiz> diddledan: I have a copy here
<diddledan> I think I've got a copy on DVD but that's sooo last millenium
<intrbiz> shamefully along with a few other Seagal films
<bigcalm> intrbiz: /etc/ssl/private for the key & csr /etc/ssl/certs for the cert
<bigcalm> I think that might be a debian thing as well
 * bigcalm backs up stuff before reinstalling
<bigcalm> Going to be a fun evening
<intrbiz> bigcalm: yeh, but I really dislike sticking server cers in with a bunch of other certs
<intrbiz> certs*
<bigcalm> intrbiz: don't put them in the certs dir then, make your own
<intrbiz> :)
<bigcalm> The private dir will only have snake oil in it
<intrbiz> yeh
<directhex> intrbiz, i use /etc/ssl/certs/hostname.pem and /etc/ssl/private/hostname.key
<diddledan> yeah we like to keep the cert/key on the same filesystem as the website so that in the cloud we can just spin up a new ubuntu machine with our filesystem attached and have everything magically work
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-25
<diplo> Morning all
<Myrtti> moin.
<awilkins> Obvious question ; is there a patch for Shellshock (CVE-2014-6271) in the Ubuntu repositories yet?  http://www.csoonline.com/article/2687265/application-security/remote-exploit-in-bash-cve-2014-6271.html
<Myrtti> what I heard was that Debian and Ubuntu aren't directly affected because they use dash by default instead of bash.
<Myrtti> I could be wrong though
<awilkins> I think bash is the default user shell
<Myrtti> that's new then.
<Myrtti> when was that changed from dash?
<awilkins> dash is linked to /bin/sh
<awilkins> So it will be the default shell that runs most scripts
<awilkins> So ; there is a patch, it's already been applied to all my servers because they have automatic security updates on, huzzah.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Psychotherapy Day! :-D
<JamesTait> Is it just here in Derby, or did someone turn summer off completely?
<foobarry> ok down south
<arsen> colder here in london :)
<arsen> all the cars were cold and damp this morning.
<JamesTait> I think we've had that for a couple of weeks, but it's normally starting to warm up by this time.
<foobarry> agh, the large novel in my bag squashed my morning croissant
<JamesTait> This is the first morning I've had to keep stopping typing to warm my hands.
<arsen> in the great debate over books vs croissant, croissant has to take priority
<foobarry> ebooks usually win, but the book was 50p in charity shop
<zmoylan-pi> the number of second hand book shops in dublin has dropped to such a low level
<zmoylan-pi> lots of charity shops with tiny book sections but only useful if looking for 50 copies of dan brown
<Myrtti> ooh croissants.
 * Myrtti cries over myfitnesspal
<foobarry> i was amazed to find haruki murakami books in charity shop
<foobarry> but this was devon. their charity shops are better than the regular shops
<zmoylan-pi> i did see halo jones 2000ad graphic novels in one though, but i already have it
<foobarry> charity shops are good for cookery books too
<foobarry> but my house is full of books
<foobarry> and my attic
<foobarry> i have a load of old spiderman/batman et al comics in my loft, probably papier mache by now
<zmoylan-pi> if they're in good nick could be worth a few shekels
<zmoylan-pi> i have a *lot* of 2000ad in cbr format, i'm still waiting for a good tablet to read them on, i reckon it has to be a3 in size
<davmor2> This is the voice of the mysterons
 * zmoylan-pi hands davmor2 a lozenge
<davmor2> I don't know why captian scarlet intro jumped into my head but there we go :)
 * zmoylan-pi is more of a thunderbirds theme opening fan
<zmoylan-pi> sorry meant stingray there, memory is still running on low coffee levels
<zmoylan-pi> but they were all pretty good theme tunes
<foobarry> i had to run yum clean all on a bunch of my boxen before i could see the updated bash package. any idea why?
<NET||abuse> foobarry, cause yum.
<bigcalm> popey: know the mates rates package we get with VM?
<popey> what about it?
<bigcalm> popey: I just got VM to apply a Â£20pcm rolling credit to our account
<popey> ooh!
<bigcalm> It was the only way to keep me as a customer
<popey> how?
<popey> you're moving though
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> Because we're moving, I knew we'd lose our Mates Rates discount. So I spent over 1 hour on the phone discussing what options we have to keep my custom
<Laney> wtf
 * bigcalm is grinning
<bigcalm> Once bills have settelled, we'll be paying in the region of Â£35pcm
<Laney> here I am eating the 3 Â£1.50/month increases we've had recently
<bigcalm> Disconnection on 10th, connection on the 11th
<bigcalm> Looking forward to 100mb connection
<bigcalm> popey: what's your upload rate?
<popey> 5
<bigcalm> Better than the 3 I have
<bigcalm> If we didn't keep VM, we would have gone with FTTC ADSL and have 19mb upload
<foobarry> "Red Hat has become aware that the patch for CVE-2014-6271 is incomplete. "
<foobarry> Red Hat advices customers to upgrade to the version of bash which contains the fix for CVE-2014-6271 and not wait for the patch which fixes CVE-2014-7169. CVE-2014-7169 is a less severe issue and patches for it are being worked on.
<popey> i like the way that is worded
<popey> what they mean is "some guy on twitter told us" â»
<bigcalm> Heh
<foobarry> yeah
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> afternoonings knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> how are you
<brobostigon> not bad, eczema could be better, and you?
<knightwise> doin ok, crying a little because I had to give back the Samsung 32inch 4K display I had on a loan for review
<directhex> knightwise: i think i'd struggle with a monitor that big
<directhex> i already can't keep track of everything on my mac screen and my 27" at once
<zmoylan-pi> my biggest monitor is ~21"
<popey> 23 here
<zmoylan-pi> and it's a wide screen jobbie which i hate
<zmoylan-pi> my favourie is a 19" 4:3 monitor i got a few moons ago
<knightwise> It is a bit TOO big
 * knightwise currently workds with a retina 15 inch mb pro and 2 24 inch in portrait mode
<foobarry> so the bash vuln can be exploited with user-agent string :-|
<bigcalm> Nice
<awilkins> What, in a browser?
<foobarry> yes
<foobarry> env X="() { :;} ; echo busted" `which bash` -c "echo completed"
<foobarry> woops
<foobarry> https://twitter.com/securifybv/status/515035044294172673
<foobarry> is 13.10 still updated
<zmoylan-pi> i seem to remember updating from that because it wasn't...
<intrbiz> foobarry: or any other header that will be passed to the CGI
<foobarry> worms a-coming
<popey> 13.10 EOL July
<foobarry> argh
<zmoylan-pi> i think it popped up a message then that convinced me to upgrade a few days later
<DJones> foobarry: Might be worth subscribing to the ubuntu-announce mailing list, maybe 2-3 messages a month, normally EOL/Release notifications
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> the main issue is just finding non lts boxen
<diddledan> oh golly
<diddledan> the bash vulnerability announced yesterday covers MANY versions
<diddledan> https://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/vuln/detail?vulnId=CVE-2014-6271
<awilkins> Yeah, as someone pointed out, not as bad as OpenSSL because people don't statically link shells....
<awilkins> One update and you're covered
<awilkins> And all the embedded things use Busybox / ash anyway
<foobarry> cgi-bin
<intrbiz> presumably there are less people using publicly available CGIs than were running affected OpenSSL
<diplo> 1 in 50 ish it seems
<diplo> According to some sites I've read
<diplo> Things like cpanel can be affected
<intrbiz> diplo: interesting
<jpds> awilkins / diddledan: Seen the NSS vuln? :)
<diddledan> jpds: I heard a rumour but not heard what it actually entails
<jpds> diddledan: $  host -t txt istheinternetonfire.com
<diplo> intrbiz, I've not seen any confirmed stuff yet though, lots of speculation
<intrbiz> diddledan: NSS bug was an ASN.1 parsing issue which could allow forged certs IIRC
<bigcalm> fewer
 * bigcalm goes back to cobbling together a bash script
<bigcalm> Anybody know how to use "readarray" in bash? I'm struggling to read a text file into an array
<awilkins> bigcalm, one record per line?
<bigcalm> awilkins: yes
<awilkins> while read LINE ; do echo "STUFF WITH $LINE" ; done < file-with-lines
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> I guess that works :)
<bigcalm> awilkins: yay
<bigcalm> My crontab combiner works :D
<intrbiz> you can also do: cat file | while read l ; do echo $l ; done
<intrbiz> type thing
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8426112/
<bigcalm> Does the job but could do with improvement
<bigcalm> Bash is not my 1st language ;)
<bigcalm> The point of this script is to combine crontab files from different projects by different developers using the same user account on a client's server
<bigcalm> Just spotted a ; that didn't need to be there. I struggle to write code and not end a line with ;
 * diddledan wanders off on a chocolate hunt
<zmoylan-pi> be careful, wounded chocolate can turn nasty :-)
<daftykins> hahaha
<bigcalm> My bowls have turned nasty, they feel wounded as well
<bigcalm> *bowels
<NET||abuse> TMI
<daftykins> +1 to the TMI
 * bigcalm slithers off
<daftykins> eww
<daftykins> :)
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> That's your own imagination now
<daftykins> yip
 * bigcalm tuts
<davmor2> bigcalm: I would hope that English was your first language :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: debateable
<bigcalm> Or debatable
<bigcalm> No spell checker with X-chat in windows...
<davmor2> bigcalm: I've seen your code, your English is definitely better :P
<dutchie> zing
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> Going to oggcamp this year?
<dutchie> i am!
<dutchie> i even have half a talk (so far)
<daftykins> :D
<dutchie> need to work out when i am drinking with oggcampy people and when with oxfordy people thoguh
<dutchie> though
<davmor2> bigcalm: no, I was planning on it, but then the Councils scheduled, a load of works on our home at the same time :(
<daftykins> ah the social cameleon bit, eh
<bigcalm> davmor2: poo
<dutchie> daftykins: something like that
<dutchie> hmm, should also check the buses from city centre out to the venue
<daftykins> i've noticed the growing popularity of that term
<daftykins> i remember times when things either were or weren't ;)
<popey> \o/ oggcamp
<daftykins> the name of that confuses me, makes me think it's a whole event about an audio format
<zmoylan-pi> or nanny ogg :-)
<bigcalm> Nanny Ogg was anything but camp!
<popey> looking forward to oggcamp this year
<zmoylan-pi> but you could imagine an entire camp of oggs
<bigcalm> popey: have you been in training for giving out the raffle prizes?
<zmoylan-pi> he's put together a sparkly costume? :-)
<popey> newp
<bigcalm> zmoylan-pi: quite, she did have a few off spring...
<bigcalm> popey: yes, go with the sparkely!
<Myrtti> we're coming too!
<Myrtti> I'll try not to hoard everything from the raffle this time
<Myrtti> :->
<bigcalm> :D
<popey> yay!
<zmoylan-pi> how many leds can one aurdino control for maximum sparkles on a costume? :-)
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: sounds like you're trying to do exactly my project
<daftykins> Myrtti: did you have an unusual spate of good luck, once before?
<Myrtti> daftykins: back in 2011
<bigcalm> Myrtti: won my penguin!
<Myrtti> and some Ubuntu swag
<Myrtti> dsample uses the bag for his laptop nowadays
<Myrtti> I used it for a good while too
<popey> I am going to win everything so I don't need to run anywhere
<Myrtti> bigcalm: that penguin is one of the few plushies that actually made the trip back to UK with my moving boxes
<Myrtti> most I've given away
<bigcalm> Wow
<bigcalm> Myrtti: that's cool :)
<dogmatic69> The following packages have unmet dependencies.
<dogmatic69>  linux-headers-3.13.0-36-generic : Depends: linux-headers-3.13.0-36 but it is not installed
<dogmatic69> so 3.13.0-36 requires 3.13.0-36?
<diddledan> interesting job posting: http://woto.com/code
<ali1234> diddledan: they want you to sign up for their website, make a page on it, then share it to social media. ie applying requires you to promote their terrible idea. and the "job" is an internship.
<ali1234> it's an interesting solution to the situation where your company gets more resumes than your website gets users
<diddledan> does facebook know me that well? they just advertised slippers at me
<zmoylan-pi> your age, gender and location would be all you'd need to recommend slippers?
<betternick> hi!
<betternick> hi!
<diddledan> http://www.startrek.com/article/chase-masterson-scott-palm-guest-blog-in-real-life
<diddledan> awesome
<diddledan> new hacking thriller: http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi1687990041
<zmoylan-pi> the best hacking movie remains http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091464/ no computers whatsoever :-)
<ali1234> carmack wants to bring back interlace
<ali1234> and he wants high dynamic range displays
<ali1234> lol
<zmoylan-pi> that'll make tetris so much better :-p
<ali1234> plus trolls will be able to blind people by posting photos of the sun
<zmoylan-pi> flushing out epileptics will never be so easy
<diddledan> yey for the FSF using shellshock (bash's bug) to promote freedom
<diddledan> if you want to read, it's over here: https://fsf.org/news/free-software-foundation-statement-on-the-gnu-bash-shellshock-vulnerability
<directhex> pfft
<directhex> diddledan, attacking apple over it... every mac ships with bash
<ali1234> is there a new patch yet?
<daftykins> i just installed a second one on lucid server here
<diddledan> ali1234: I received a followup announcement just this minute from ubuntu securtiy
<ali1234> ah yeah i see a new package now, that's not more than 2 hours old
<zmoylan-pi> when i try env X="() { :;} ; echo busted" /bin/sh -c "echo stuff" on both my ubuntu and 1 rasp pi it seems fine
<ali1234> because /bin/sh is dash on ubuntu
<ali1234> change it to /bin/bash
<zmoylan-pi> ah
<zmoylan-pi> my bad :-)
<ali1234> same is true of debian and therefor raspbian
<daftykins> why won't my cat let me type? :(
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2vtznfi3kd56smk/IMG_20140926_002500.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> nawww, soo coot
<daftykins> 8D
<diddledan> soft kitty, warm kitty
<zmoylan-pi> little sharp bitey ball of fur kitty
<daftykins> it can be quite frustrating when they knead on you in a thin t-shirt
<daftykins> *stabbity stab stab to the stomach*
<zmoylan-pi> it's i'm being nice, you just have to hope it stops soon
<diddledan> yeah, but we're martyrs and won't make them stop
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-26
<diddledan> hands up everyone who's been awake all night fixing bash's shellshock!
<diddledan> ok ok, I've been fixing everything else, too
<diddledan> precipitated by bash, tho
<knightwise> good morning peeps
<diddledan> lo
<knightwise> hey diddledan
<knightwise> how are you dude ?
<diddledan> tired
<diddledan> you just missed my pronouncement of having been awake all night working on fixing bash's shellshock vuln
<knightwise> back
<knightwise> just patched my nix machines for the shell bug
<knightwise> too bad my mac don't have no patch
<knightwise> hmmm
<popey> morning all
<jpds> popey: Morning.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy World Dream Day! :-D
<knightwise> hey popey JamesTait jpds
<knightwise> popey: cat still sleeping on your neck like a scarf ?
<davmor2> man the world dreams.....I wonder if it dreams of being a whale.....or a range of intergalatic tortoises with a world on top
<foobarry> davmor2 is stoned
<davmor2> foobarry: no JamesTait said it was World Dream day
<foobarry> i dream about travelling to work and i'm not wearing shoes
<davmor2> and you think I'm stoned :P
<foobarry> or i'm forever trying to pack for holiday and i can never finish
<JamesTait> davmor2, Great A'Tuin is the world turtle, not a tortoise. ;)
<popey> knightwise: no thankfully!
<davmor2> JamesTait: I couldn't remember which it was I was close though
<JamesTait> davmor2, we knew what you meant!
 * JamesTait is making his way through the Discworld series again, at eldest son's bedtime.
<davmor2> JamesTait: man I hate to think what his dreams are likely to be ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, trains, probably. Lots and lots of trains. And Minecraft.
<smittix> Morning all
<davmor2> JamesTait: everything a growing kid needs :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: you gonna take him to the NRM in york then?
<JamesTait> davmor2, undoubtedly, at some point.
<JamesTait> davmor2, we've done Etches Park depot, Great Central Railway, Midland Railway Centre, various train stations and level crossings.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I can also recommend a trip to bridgenorth and jump on the Severn Valley Railway
<JamesTait> davmor2, he's asked me to take photos of the train I go to London on, and if I go on a subway in the US he wants photos.
<foobarry> i had a dream the other night that the 8.11 train was a steam train. but my 8.26 was a regualr commuter overground train. and i just missed the 8.11. it seemed to plant itself as a memory rather than a dream. i've only just recalled that it was a dream
<davmor2> JamesTait: you also get the hill train
<davmor2> JamesTait: yes get your priorities man ;)
<foobarry> http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Submit-Great-giffgaff-Ideas/60-day-voicemail-frustration/idi-p/8605876 needs more votes
<foobarry> any giffgaff users please vote :D
 * dutchie leaving giffgaff
<dutchie> due to shoddy signal where i live
<directhex> waiting for xperia z3 to ship, then will move to three
<directhex> not neccessarily to an xperia, but i want the option
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<dutchie> yeah, i have a three sim in the post
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<dutchie> & hi brobostigon
 * brobostigon has been with three for a few years now, because of the no FUP unlimited data.
<foobarry> no FAP?
<brobostigon> fup = fair usage policy
<foobarry> sorry for reddit joke
<brobostigon> i see
<directhex> brobostigon: there *is* a FUP!
<directhex> brobostigon: 1T per month.
<brobostigon> directhex: ok, last time i looked there wasnt, ok thank you. thats still a huge amount of data.
<directhex> brobostigon: i don't push that on fibre, in a month, with all the steam games
<brobostigon> directhex: i can imagine, it would be difficult to get anywhere near to.
<davmor2> Tunes stuck in my head today are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrlhLaNClgw and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwlogyj7nFE
 * brobostigon had enter sandman in his head yesterday
<directhex> i've had "starlight" by the supermen lovers in my head a lot lately
<ujjain> is dish washer tablets always th  same size?
<directhex> ujjain: approximately
<directhex> ujjain: dishwashers with a tablet tray should accept any brand on the market, anyway
<ujjain> ah ok, I will get the discounted finish powerball then, they should fit then
<ujjain> yeah right, I never boughth dishwasher tablets before, but should be fine then
<davmor2> we should make a playlist of the tunes we have in our heads they are obviously the best tunes EVA!!!!! part 1 :)  it's always part 1 don't ask me why :D
<Myrtti> spotify collaborative playlist
<Myrtti> I already have few of those earworm playlists from different groups
<zmoylan-pi> played from a cassette changer for full 80s retro :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgTuzDQokdk
<ujjain> fabric conditioner is the same as fabric softener or as washing detergent?
<DJones> softener
<ujjain> ah thanks
<Myrtti> I use white vinegar from a Cash and Carry instead
<Myrtti> doesn't leave a horrid scent on the clothes and helps with limescale a bit
<ujjain> ah, right. :)
<ujjain> what's the english ikea called, you can order online and they have massive books, then you collect in the store
<ujjain> 5 letters I think, 2 silibals\
<ujjain> sounds like astro
<dwatkins_> Sweden upon Thames
<ujjain> hmm, that's not it :P
<dwatkins_> aka Ikea
<ujjain> haha
<DJones> ujjain: Argos ?
<ujjain> ah yes
<ujjain> thanks
<DJones> Or Homebase, both owned by the same people, slightly different products though
<davmor2> ujjain: you know we have ikea here too right ;) they have book books too
<ujjain> Yeah I know, but I am looking for more glasses/cutlery so I can be more lazy before doing laundry
<davmor2> ujjain: again ikea :P
<ujjain> ah yeah, but it's far
<ujjain> I'd need a car
<davmor2> ujjain: hahaha
<ujjain> or take a busride for 20/25 minutes
<Myrtti> woe is you
<DJones> I suspect most people order online at Ikea though, so they can just go to a collection point rather than having to get the Sat Nav out to find their way round the store
<ujjain> ah hmm, let me see, IKEA is cheaper yeah
<davmor2> DJones: I prefer the satnav idea when going to Ikea but that is most cause it means I'm owed the meal I have there :)
<DJones> :)
<foobarry> anyone used LTSP lately (linux terminal server project)
<davmor2> foobarry: no
<ujjain> 0800 numbers in the Netherlands are free, but are paid numbers in the UK, right? Do all 0800 numbers have the same cost?
<ujjain> found it: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/phones/cut-cost-0800-mobiles
<davmor2> ujjain: no 0800 numbers are free from landlines but cost a normal charge from mobiles
<ujjain> ah ok! thanks, didn't know
<foobarry> except on giffgaff i think it is no-cost
<ujjain> three contract also fere, but I have three pay as you go
<ujjain> I was rejected for a FlexPlus account based on my credit score. Will that even more negatively affect my credit score?
<davmor2> ujjain: no, but it might make it harder to get credit card and accounts that have them.
<ujjain> why do you even need credit score for a bank account, argh, I don't even want to be able to have a negative balance.
<directhex> there's still credit, on a non-credit account
<directhex> e.g. cheques are credit-based
<directhex> since there's no verification of balance when you write a cheque
<Myrtti> just get rid of cheques
<Myrtti> problem solved
<ujjain> i threw away my cheques
<brobostigon> they are outdated anyway.
<diplo> Our school for my kids prefers cheques for payment of stuff, I don't a cheque book but they don't like cash
<ujjain> crappy.
<Myrtti> haven't they heard of bank accounts?
<Myrtti> I heard that in the big world you write bills with the account information to which you want the money to be paid to
<Myrtti> I'm under the impression it's quite fast too
<Myrtti> like, nearly immediate or at most one banking day.
<Myrtti> heretic, I know!
<diplo> Myrtti, I know, or even just a card machine..
<diplo> Other schools around the area allow it :/
<diplo> A new head recently, so hoping he improves things
<Myrtti> notice how gracefully I'm ignoring the fact you're paying the school
<christel> our school also prefers cheque for stuff
<diplo> heh, it's for after school clubs etc and school dinners
<Myrtti> after school clubs have to be organised by someone else than the school in Finland
<Myrtti> and school dinners are free
<Myrtti> whoever organises said clubs can ask for a fee
<diplo> School dinners are free ( this year, wasn't that way last year ) up to year 2, so I only have to pay for one
<diplo> But the one who gets it free prefers packed lunch :/
<Myrtti> kids in Finland would get a letter to home if they'd come in with a packed lunch :-/
<Myrtti> talking of lunches, I just learned about Hartley's jelly cups
<Myrtti> well I have noticed them before but hadn't tried one before
<Myrtti> surprisingly nice
<diplo> Seen them, never tried them
<knightwise> Ghahhh ! You evil taxman you !
<knightwise> Taking away hard earned money from my beloved little startup
<diddledan> oh dear. I got a colleague rattled by deleting files which he needed to stay
<DJones> Is there an easy way to convert .pdf to an excel/openoffice calc file?
<brobostigon> open the pdf in openoffice, then save/export it into a different format?
<foobarry> copy paste
<DJones> That doesn't work (at least using the Windows version, just opens the file in Draw)
<DJones> Just trying an online converter
<Myrtti> excuse me while I squee, but wedding shoes just arrived in mail
<Myrtti> *squee*
<Myrtti> there, done.
<NET||abuse> I'm having an absolute 'mare here, laptop keyabord, coffee spill, touchpad was out for a day, then started working again, everything else seems fine except the return key. external or onscreen keyboard is the only way I can keep working.
<NET||abuse> anybody have any tips on fixing a single key on a keyboard. mechanically seems fine.
<NET||abuse> dont know what i could have done to have just 1 key no work.
<BigRedS> what sort of keyboard is it? And when it doesn't work, do you mean it just doesn't appear to send any keypresses?
<zmoylan-pi> the old crumbs in the keyboard problem?
<daftykins> never heard a better candidate for percussive maintenance
<SuperEngineer> there's a way to stop crumbs, pizza bits, fag ash et al gettinhg into your keyboard
<directhex> don't use a keyboard, type via telepathy
<SuperEngineer> ...stick keyboard to ceiling... after tyring todo anything on it after that...
<SuperEngineer> all other probs seem simple!
<daftykins> could just get the flat surface medical keyboards i saw recently at the hospital
<daftykins> they looked pretty weird though, i doubt feedback is very good
<SuperEngineer> or a good ol' fashioned flimsy heyboard cover?
<zmoylan-pi> the don't eat over keyboard option a non goer?
<daftykins> even without eating you'll still get lots of dead skin and so on in there
<SuperEngineer> or try clingfilm... if you get it right you can still use the keyboard  but if you don't...... ;)
<SuperEngineer> [on the other hand get a can of mankind's best friend - air duster!
<SuperEngineer> dead skin - use latex gloves! dandruff - use a head cover! runny nose -use a dust mask!
<SuperEngineer> ....& don't forgoet to post the picture of the result on the web :)
<SuperEngineer> Q/ anyone else finding that Chromium randomly crashes recently? Is it just me?
<zmoylan-pi> a full hazmat suit to keep dust away from keyboard?
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: not a good idea - the usb ports can't poewer the air blowers
<SuperEngineer> *power
<ali1234> i've seen some random chrome crashes recently. and some random firefox ones too
<ali1234> and by that i mean an above average amount
<ali1234> is centos 5.9 still supported?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-27
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<christel> morning brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> morning christel :)
<popey> morning
<p42phone> It is!
<popey> hah, was about to say, "I can see penguin42 but tab completion didn't find you â»
<p42phone> Yes, this is andchat on my phone, there doesn't seem to be any non-hotel-guest wifi
<foobarry> how many ways of explaining to someone that the number he has been given is not the right one? had over 20 calls from some eejit
<SuperEngineer> foobarry: darn! I was just about to phone you again... & stop calling me an eejit... ;)
<p42phone> Foovarry: press 1 for more information ob n how much of an idiot 2) to be told it's the wrong number again
<foobarry> also phoned the NS&I to explain the premium bonds sent to my house is for a deceased person
<foobarry> they didn't care
<foobarry> even though its likely he had a post office accnount that was paid out to relatives
<SuperEngineer> foobarry: darn again... those were *my* premium bonds!
<foobarry> they said just rip up the letter,
<foobarry> Â£526 worth
<SuperEngineer> nooooooooooooooo
<SuperEngineer> It's nice not working on a weekend.  All I need to do is somehow unpack & get 2 sacks of "consumables" [cleaners, small parts etc] into the 1 boot storage box it must fit into...
<SuperEngineer> ...take a 2 hour online refresher...
<SuperEngineer> ...deal with 2 weeks worth of emails...
<SuperEngineer> ...& why couldn't Oggcamp be this weekend - when I'm "not" working!
<SuperEngineer> yuk
 * SuperEngineer still awaits sympathy / sobs / shouts of " stop whinging"
<foobarry> oggcamp is this weekend?
<foobarry> oh, no i see
<p42phone> Superengineer:  don't you have colleagues etc that you can swap shifts with or us it very fixed?
<SuperEngineer> sort off -they are all on "work to rule" atm -do no :(
<p42phone> Ah no
<foobarry> https://vine.co/v/OZgbmMx1xvu
<foobarry> rooney red card
<SuperEngineer> durummm durummm, durummm durummm, durummm durummm, durummm durummm, durummm durummm,  durummm durummm,  wooooooooooo-oooooooooooooooooooooo [Dr. Who time, folks]
<ahayzen> \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2014-09-28
<bhrz> I am an Ubuntu newbie and I need one little help
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * p42phone is watching popey tell the history of Ubuntu phone
<SuperEngineer> p42phone: quick.. give him a call on stage ;0
<SuperEngineer> ..find out what ring tone he uses :D
<brobostigon> lol
<popey> SuperEngineer: i muted my phone â»
<SuperEngineer> popey.. spoil sport :)
<popey> although that would have been interesting as I'm one of only 3 people here with that ringtone
<SuperEngineer> hope the talk went ok, even without unwanted phone ringing
<popey> yeah, it seemed to
<popey> wasnt video'ed
<popey> I'll do the same talk at oggcamp next week
<popey> which might be
<SuperEngineer> nice one
<popey> will have to trim it down to 30 mins
 * SuperEngineer edits popey's speech for him: "hi, I'm popey - we're building a phone [followed by 25 mins of ringtone], thank you all for listening"
<czajkowski> popey: clicker worked :)
<SuperEngineer> Talking of batteries, anybody know the best place to get a replacement battery for an old Acer netbookthese days [one that doesn't explode on first charge preferably] -a.k.a. reliablly sourced
<p42phone> Other than acervi double there's a reputable answer; order a sand bucket at the same time?
<p42phone> Gah damn autocorrect
<SuperEngineer> p42phone definite lol
<SuperEngineer> I have just earned a first [for]: "Ban notification from a Steam Community Moderator	 â Just now
<SuperEngineer> You have been banned from Steam Discussions
<SuperEngineer> You have been banned from Steam Discussions by a Steam Community Moderator for your post in "New Steam Discovery Queue is broken!""
<SuperEngineer> ...I'm proud of that :)
<MartijnVdS> what did you say?
<SuperEngineer> someone replied to a comment of mine with "spam for badge", so I replied "ham for badge"
<SuperEngineer> controversial huh
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> My desktop has locked up again, but I can ssh into it. Running htop, I can see the 8th CPU is at 100% usage constantly. But I'm not sure how to find out what's using it
<bigcalm> I've issued a service lightdm restart and it restart it, from the CLI. But the desktop still shows what was there previously
<daftykins> as in a static locked image of the programs you had open prior?
<daftykins> what're the system logs saying?
<bigcalm> daftykins: correct. I pasted the syslog to twitter. Looks to be an issue with nvidia. Either HW or SW. I've installed the latest 64 bit driver direct from nvidia. We'll see in time if it fixes things
<daftykins> hmm fault diagnosis on a text length limited service... that's a skill
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/516238055079165952
<daftykins> i do like that wording
<daftykins> "GPU has fallen off the bus"
<bigcalm> Heh
<ali1234> i had a GPU lock up like that the other day
<ali1234> it happens with the nvidia driver from time to time
<daftykins> any thoughts on where i should look for a 14.04 system booting to the GRUB menu and not auto advancing?
 * daftykins looks at /etc/default/grub
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8448672/
<daftykins> i don't get what value there might stop auto boot
<penguin42> I get the feeling grub stops if it gets upset on previous boots sometimes
<daftykins> yeah, recordfail, that's not happening here though
<daftykins> e.g. if i boot in then immediately reboot, it's still hanging at the menu
<daftykins> it's not counting down a timeout value, it's just sitting there permanently
<daftykins> this is highly irritating
<ali1234> maybe your shift key is stuck down
<daftykins> lol, nah
<daftykins> lets try "GRUB_RECORDFAIL_TIMEOUT=2"
<daftykins> ugh nope zero change
<daftykins> only thing i've done that's likely non-standard is picking EXT2 for /boot this time
<daftykins> this is my HTPC i'm reinstalling
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: disclaimer - I am no way an expert on any of this - but is it worth reinstalling GRUN from a live CD or similar?
<daftykins> i'm not sure that that's what's really going on here
<penguin42> daftykins: I'll admit to not remembering how all those menus/timeouts workout
<daftykins> this is terrible, all results online show lots of irritated users and yet no answers
<penguin42> daftykins: You are using    update-grub every time you edit it - right?
<daftykins> yes sir
<penguin42> daftykins: OK, in that case I'd try commenting out both of the GRUB_HIDDEN lines
<daftykins> i tried a few things, but i've just gotten frustrated so i'm clean installing :D i'd only just installed anyway
<daftykins> i feel very disappointed for giving up, but it's not a task worthy of my time
<SuperEngineer> https://weev.livejournal.com/409835.html ... wow!
<daftykins> ok this is seriously annoying, clean install and it does it out of the bo
<daftykins> x
<penguin42> yeh, clean install is rarely the answer
<daftykins> well i think it's because i enabled updates the second time around
<daftykins> i think whatever quirk is coming in, is down to that
<penguin42> daftykins: How many OSs have you got installed?
<daftykins> just the one
<penguin42> daftykins: Does sudo os-prober say anything?
<daftykins> i shall let you know once i get to booted in again :)
<daftykins> i decided to get serious on it
<daftykins> penguin42: i should probably own up to it actually being 'xbmcbuntu' and not vanilla ubuntu
<penguin42> daftykins: I don't think that'll make much odds
<penguin42> daftykins: Do you have an IR remote keyboard like thing plugged in?
<daftykins> i had hoped not, only when i looked in /boot i saw a very odd initrd image name
<penguin42> odd how?
<daftykins> it was called 3.14 - amd fixes5 or similar
<daftykins> and yet uname -a reported the true trusty latest, of 3.13...-36
<daftykins> *-r
<daftykins> my HTPC has a built-in IR receiver, but i'm setting it up with a wireless keyboard and mouse via a USB receiver right now
<daftykins> strangely when i come to the end of setup, it asks to reboot... but it fails to
<penguin42> daftykins: there are lots of won't reboot screwups; probably separate
<daftykins> i lose a picture on my TV (as the system is HDMI'd into my AV receiver and onto the TV after that)
<penguin42> daftykins: ok, so does os-prober say anything?
<daftykins> still installing i'm afraid
<daftykins> not long now
<daftykins> even with an SSD, this intel atom + nvidia ion1 combo isn't too spritely :)
<penguin42> yeh, I think I now have a phone that beats most of my machines, odd
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> (I won it; it's way higher spec than I'd buy)
<daftykins> ooh which one?
<penguin42> Oppo Find 7
<daftykins> i got a phone call today to say i'd won a raffle prize
<penguin42> my old one was an Orange San Francisco (aka ZTE blade)
<daftykins> oh speaking of which, i have a OnePlus invite if anyone wants one
<penguin42> invite?
<daftykins> yeah you can only buy them if you get an invite to do so
<penguin42> they were one of the sponsers at the XDA:Devcon me and Popey have been at
<daftykins> ah-ha :)
<daftykins> i'm now at the 'restart' button - but it will blank my TV and not go down for reboot if i select it
<daftykins> worth trying to switch to a TTY and unmounting the disk if it hasn't already been?
<penguin42> well, the question is why it doesn't go down - it could just be the bios being a bit funny after it's already rebooted
<diddledan> daftykins: it will be waiting for you to press the enter key to confirm you've removed the dvd
<daftykins> diddledan: odd that it disables the image though
<daftykins> odd i didn't remember that though - let's try it
<daftykins> still got the USB flash drive i installed from, plugged in - hitting restart now
<daftykins> ok definitely no response having told it to shutdown
<daftykins> i had to hold down the power button all the other times
<daftykins> ok i've got the issue immediately, so it wasn't anything to do with updating
<daftykins> i'm going to dist-upgrade anyway
<daftykins> penguin42: zero output from "sudo os-prober"
<penguin42> damn, there goes my idea about why it would pause
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/485bxuhozqupa6y/IMG_20140928_190128.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> i see this lovely stuff during a dist-upgrade
<penguin42> yeh well that's the weird variant you're running - I wonder if you're missing part of that 3.14.2-amdfixes5+ package
<penguin42> daftykins: Your /boot isn't full is it?
<daftykins> i made it 200MB and due to being a clean install it's empty
<penguin42> those are odd
<penguin42> (disappears for food)
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> hey guys prepare yourself for today's weirdest setup
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8449611/ there's my /
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8449618/ there's my /boot
<ali1234> so you have no kernels and only one initrd?
<daftykins> only that initrd is not from any package
<daftykins> i've just moved it to another path and rebooted
<daftykins> i still hang up on the GRUB menu and somehow pressing enter still boots
<daftykins> where is my kernel coming from XD
<ali1234> i bet you've not mounted the partitions correctly somewhere
<ali1234> is boot mounted?
<daftykins> lol one of the XBMC devs just asked me to unmount /boot , as call me crazy but i create a separate /boot for no good reason
<ali1234> yep
<daftykins> after unmount, ls /boot shows all my kernels :)
<ali1234> that amdfixes5 kernel is something from a XBMC howto
<ali1234> i was just about to ask if you followed it
<directhex> tomorrow i think i shall tell Orange to go jump in a lake.
<daftykins> ali1234: it's one of the dev's testing files, he wondered himself how it crept in
<daftykins> ok, i'm an idiot - every time i was running "sudo update-grub" it never listed the kernels because i had the overmounted /boot
<daftykins> lack of familiarity to that command's output led me to think everything was fine
<ali1234> i haven't been watching the channel
<ali1234> but yeah
<ali1234> that makes perfect sense
<ali1234> is this still about grub waiting?
<ali1234> i actually made this mistake on a machine the other day. chrooted in to rescue, forgot to mount /boot, and ran update-grub
<daftykins> that was the overall issue yep
<ali1234> so you were looking at the wrong grub config too?
<daftykins> well i was editing /etc/default/grub
<daftykins> and i kept thinking none of my changes were ever working :D
<penguin42> daftykins: Ah that makes sense
<daftykins> so apparently i'm not an idiot for having a separate /boot partition, but somehow the install process hasn't integrated them properly
<daftykins> now that i uncommented my /boot from /etc/fstab and ran update-grub, everything's fine
<penguin42> daftykins: 58th rule of programming; make sure you're changing the file you think you're changing
<daftykins> i don't think that one applies, since i was editing /etc/default/grub - i just am not experienced enough to notice that update-grub wasn't finding kernels
<daftykins> i did 'WTF' when i did "ls /boot" and saw none, but i couldn't understand how the system possibly booted without one
<daftykins> i don't know if i care enough about 200MB to reinstall again now XD
 * penguin42 wouldn't
<bigcalm> Has anybody had an issue with in stalling skype on 64bit 14.04?
<bigcalm> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<bigcalm> skype: Depends: skype-bin but it is a virtual package
<bigcalm> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<bigcalm> skype-bin:i386: Depends: libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1) but 1:4.9.1-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
<bigcalm>                 Depends: libqt4-dbus (>= 4:4.5.3) but 4:4.8.5+git192-g085f851+dfsg-2ubuntu4 is to be installed
<bigcalm>                 Depends: libqt4-network (>= 4:4.8.0) but 4:4.8.5+git192-g085f851+dfsg-2ubuntu4 is to be installed
<bigcalm>                 Depends: libqt4-xml (>= 4:4.5.3) but 4:4.8.5+git192-g085f851+dfsg-2ubuntu4 is to be installed
<bigcalm>                 Depends: libqtcore4 (>= 4:4.7.0~beta1) but 4:4.8.5+git192-g085f851+dfsg-2ubuntu4 is to be installed
<bigcalm>                 Depends: libqtgui4 (>= 4:4.8.0) but 4:4.8.5+git192-g085f851+dfsg-2ubuntu4 is to be installed
<bigcalm> Oops
<Azelphur> bigcalm: iirc you have to uninstall the skype package
<Azelphur> I've seen that issue before
<bigcalm> Package 'skype' is not installed, so not removed
<penguin42> I don't understand those errors; it says it wants something bigger than 4.8.0 and it's going to get 4.8.5
<Azelphur> try skype-bin then
<penguin42> oh, I wonder
<bigcalm> Package 'skype-bin:i386' is not installed, so not removed
<penguin42> bigcalm: Make sure you have the :i386 versions of htose dependencies installed
<Azelphur> not sure then
<bigcalm> $ sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386
<bigcalm> With that?
<bigcalm> Doing so gives no feedback and the errors above are still present
<penguin42> bigcalm: Try apt-get install libqtgui4:i386
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8449945/
<bigcalm> Argh. All of my searches return similar results saying the same things
<bigcalm> Yet those actions still result in i386 packages not being installed
<directhex> bigcalm, dpkg --list-architectures
<directhex> sorry, make that dpkg --print-foreign-architectures
<bigcalm> i386
<directhex> apt-get update
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8449996/
<directhex> apt-cache policy libqtgui4
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8450006/
<directhex> apt-get install libqtgui4:i386
<bigcalm> apt-get install libqtgui4:i386
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8450013/
<directhex> apt-get install libc6:i386 ?
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8450030/
<ali1234> have you got weird ppas?
<bigcalm> ali1234: fresh install of 14.04.1
<ali1234> how strange. i have skype installed and it works fine
<directhex> apt-get install libc6:i386 libgcc1:i386 ?
<bigcalm> I had skype installed prior to doing a fresh install as well :)
<directhex> something is amiss here, trying to track down what
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8450033/
<directhex> yeah, something's boned in apt relating to java, which is blocking everything else
<directhex> do you want java?
<bigcalm> directhex: yes, I need it for minecraft. Oh and my work for the IDE
<bigcalm> I could try removing openjdk-7-jre
<bigcalm> And then see what it installs
<directhex> supposedly it's not installed.
<directhex> apt-cache status openjdk-7-jre-headless
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8450073/
<bigcalm> Erm, one mo
<bigcalm> E: Invalid operation status
<bigcalm> The previous paste url is from sudo apt-get remove openjdk-7-jre
<bigcalm> Shall I remove java?
<directhex> sorry, apt-cache status says "invalid operation status"? ._.
<bigcalm> iain@snafu2:~$ apt-cache status openjdk-7-jre-headless
<bigcalm> E: Invalid operation status
<directhex> gah
<directhex> policy
<directhex> i need a nap
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8450152/
<directhex> hm. non-ubuntu java.
<bigcalm> Odd
<bigcalm> I installed via software centre
<directhex> well, look at the policy table. it's not from the ubuntu repo
<bigcalm> Looks like it is to me, but I might not understand it :)
<bigcalm> It's coming from a mirror
<directhex> nope.   Version table:
<directhex>  *** 7u65-2.5.2-3~14.04 0
<directhex>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<bigcalm> Okay, I didn't understand it then :)
<directhex> that means the only place it knows that package version from is /var/lib/dpkg/status, i.e. your local machine
<bigcalm> I see
<directhex>  7u55-2.4.7-1ubuntu1 0
<directhex>         500 http://mirrors.manchester.m247.com/ubuntu/ trusty-updates/main amd64 Packages
<directhex>         500 http://mirrors.manchester.m247.com/ubuntu/ trusty-security/main amd64 Packages
<directhex>      7u51-2.4.6-1ubuntu4 0
<directhex>         500 http://mirrors.manchester.m247.com/ubuntu/ trusty/main amd64 Packages
<directhex> those are from mirrors
<directhex> the problem is going to be that one of the packages you need for skype has been updated to a non-repo version - and you cannot have mismatched i386 and amd64 versions of packages
<bigcalm> Poo
<bigcalm> I've just removed java. No improvement on skype after a apt-get update
<directhex> so it wants libfoo, latest libfoo:i386 in repos is 1.0.0, you have libfoo:amd64 1.0.1+ppa1, mismatch
 * bigcalm wants a "fix me" button in Ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: which plays Coldplay's "Fix You"?
 * bigcalm shudders
<foobarry> guys. my wireless router has channel set to auto, but the android wifi app shows channel 1 very busy, and nothing on 11..
<MartijnVdS> then the "auto" mode may be broken, OR there's otehr interference on 11
<MartijnVdS> like old, badly shielded microwaves, or dect phones, or stuff like that
<foobarry> i wonder how auto mode works
<foobarry> if at all
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: on most routers, it scans the spectrum once and then selects a relatively free channel
<zmoylan-pi> use random, call it auto in marketing :-)
<MartijnVdS> or that
<foobarry> hmm
<bigcalm> sudo apt-get install libc6:i386 libgcc1:i386 now gives http://paste.ubuntu.com/8450231/
<foobarry> also, are modern phone using n wireless now?
<MartijnVdS> yup
<MartijnVdS> some even AC if available
<foobarry> chromecast too?
<MartijnVdS> chromecast does N but not AC (ac is always 5GHz, chromecast only has a 2.4GHz radio)
<directhex> bigcalm, that seems rather bad
<foobarry> i might test this channel change out next weekened, rather than sunday night ..
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: channel changes are relatively painless though
<MartijnVdS> don't need a whole weekend :)
<MartijnVdS> devices just reconnect
<bigcalm> directhex: just a tad
<bigcalm> Well that's interesting. I've just changed the source to the main UK mirror and got this from sudo apt-get install skype: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8450260/
<MartijnVdS> yeah skype pulls in half of i386 userland
<MartijnVdS> because it's .. yeah.. 32 bits
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I expected that. What I didn't expect was it to work when a mirror wasn't working
<bigcalm> How does one report a dodgy mirror?
 * bigcalm pokes davmor2_ 
<diddledan> bigcalm: you could either jump into #ubuntu-mirrors and wait forever or try emailing the mirrors mailing list
<bigcalm> diddledan: ta
<diddledan> bigcalm: ubuntu-mirrors@lists.ubuntu.com
<directhex> bigcalm, that looks healthier
<directhex> bigcalm, i suggest an update/upgrade too, if you were using a junk mirror
<foobarry> i found a flea on me. tiny one. wonder if it travlled from my mums house
<bigcalm> directhex: indeed and done. Bash just got upgraded :D
<diddledan> I wonder why it wants mysql-common
<directhex> diddledan, a dep of a qt lib, i guess
<directhex> maybe nepomuk
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> libqt4-sql
<MartijnVdS> "nepomuk"? and they say gnome programs have weird names (evince? palimpsest?)
<diddledan> and libqt4-sql-mysql
<bigcalm> directhex: thanks for having a look at this with me
<bigcalm> NFS vs SSHFS - go!
<Azelphur> NFS fast, SSHFS slow
<Azelphur> a handy guide
<zmoylan-pi> fat32 for preference for external drives :-)
<bigcalm> In a nut shell :)
<Azelphur> NFS annoying as shit to configure, SSHFS built into the file browser.
<Azelphur> another handy guide :)
<bigcalm> !ohmy
<bigcalm> We've lost the bot
<Azelphur> :<
<zmoylan-pi> it quit in disgust? ;-)
<bigcalm> * lubotu3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
<bigcalm> Just noticed the few connections going away
<bigcalm> 16 hours until I'm a home owner and collect keys
<bigcalm> Starting to actually feel excited
<bigcalm> +28 years for real ownership
<zmoylan-pi> for next 28 years you're a financial institutions serf :-)
<bigcalm> Has anybody got dropbox talking to two accounts at the same time in linux?
 * zmoylan-pi hasn't got dropbox working in rasp-pi as it seems a pita
<bigcalm> Time to catch up on UUPC
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-21
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm thinking I must be after watch hudson hawk now I got swinging on a star stuck in my head
<Myrtti> ooh, it's an OpenSourcerer
<selinuxium> Hi all  o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Needed to jump on #reprapro to ask a question ;-)
<selinuxium> 'lo TheOpenSourcerer.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: good morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> I spent most of yesterday helping my son to build this: https://reprappro.com/documentation/fisher-beta/
<MooDoo> davmor2: great film
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8KvM3vZo0w
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: oh, it arrived?
<popey> I thought you'd ordered it, didn't realise you got it already
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nah - Grandad bought it for him :-)
<popey> ooh, it's a delta printer!
<popey> nice
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was very impressed with the build
<TheOpenSourcerer> so far.
<popey> how far did you get?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Instructions were great, all the bits were nicely finished.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We got to this stage: https://reprappro.com/documentation/fisher-beta/connecting-rods/
<zmoylan-pi> that's a really elegant looking 3d printeer...
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Miniature Golf Day! ð
<TheOpenSourcerer> We filmed the assembly using a frameapp so we have a 3minute video of about 5 hours assembly :-) James will be putting this on his blog shortly I think :-)
<popey> i notice there's some missing photos on the wiki, might be useful to upload yours if they're good
<popey> great way to contribute back before he's even finished his build
<TheOpenSourcerer> I really enjoyed the build process. It's a very clever design and well thought out.
<Myrtti> we should be getting a 3D printer soonish too. I've no idea what kind
<Myrtti> I know we're going to have a PeachyPrinter too but this one that's supposedly (not really) been shipped is a normal filament kind. That's all I know
<zmoylan-pi> as a d&d gamer we could use one to make a fair few models or critturs for our table top maps  generic ones to reduce the amount of monsters carried
<Myrtti> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/m3d/the-micro-the-first-truly-consumer-3d-printer/description apparently
<popey> that is cute looking
<Myrtti> looking at it now, I'm starting to wonder if it will be able to print me a new case for my knitting machine that would accommodate the Arduino
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't the plastic be too soft?
<Myrtti> oh it's not for storing the knitting machine
<zmoylan-pi> ah, my bad
<Myrtti> it's to replace an ABS cover that I've had to take off to take the old controls off and to connect the Arduino instead
<zmoylan-pi> right, coffee and biccie...
<NET||abuse> how do i see what commands a  launcher icon is using?
<NET||abuse> there's no easy way to inspect the "shortcut" of a launcher
<foobarry> have you seen this vid about the clock? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEmSwJTqpgY&app=desktop
<foobarry> "if you think this is an invention , you've been fooled"
<NET||abuse> eg.. i just upped from 14.10 to 15.04 yesterday on this laptop, and now spotify isn't launching, i get no error when i click on the icon, but to figure out what command it's running it's non-obvious how to debug the issue,
<MooDoo> oh i read about that this morning...sigh
<foobarry> "the clock is a commercial clock removed from its casing"
<zmoylan-pi> o/ my first gizmos were broken things that i remounted on lego chassis to make operational again
<shauno> seen a few of those vids now.  always priceless seeing the look of achievement on a grown adult's face when he manages to one-up a 14yo nerd.
<popey> NET||abuse: look in /usr/share/applications for the spotify desktop file
<NET||abuse> ah yeh, i know where the apps are as someone who's experienced with ubuntu, but i was just wondering was it the only way,
<NET||abuse> it's not a very accessible interface is unity.
<NET||abuse> even if it's neatly tucked away somewhere to not overload the user interface, there still should be a route to seeing what's behind a launcher icon. right click->properties type of thing, show me what command it's running, or let me modify the command it's running, or add a show in folder option, some way to show what's behind that icon.
<NET||abuse> otherwise you just have to read up on the "conventions of unity" which if my programming days tought me anything, convention over configuration isn't always best
<popey> indeed
<NET||abuse> anyway, just ranting
<popey> it was one of the first bugs I filed on unity
<NET||abuse> :)
<NET||abuse> i've just switched back from arch/gnome to ubuntu after 3 months, and gotta say, there's alot to like on the gnome side
<NET||abuse> but in'm only 24 hours into it.. give it 2 weeks and i'll see how i feel.
<Myrtti> NET||abuse: usually it's a foobar.desktop file
<Myrtti> in /usr/share/applications/
<Myrtti> oh, too late
<Myrtti> popey was hiding behind quits and joins
<NET||abuse> Myrtti: oh i know where they are, /usr/share/applications;/$HOME/.local/application
<NET||abuse> s
<Myrtti> I blame my lack of new glasses
<NET||abuse> I was really just raising frustration with the opaqueness unity implements
<NET||abuse> and that's what grinds my gears..
<NET||abuse> back to you Tom!
<popey> NET||abuse: bug 705007
<lubotu3> bug 705007 in unity-launcher-editor "Unity has no method to maintain properties of launchers" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705007
<NET||abuse> ahh, cheers popey
<ujjain> I moved in the UK. I sent my new address to the electoral roll. Do I still have to inform both councils of an address chagne?
<leecowdrey_> no - just the new council
<leecowdrey_> they should use official form which updates the electoral roll
<diddledan_> m00
<davmor2> diddledan: you can't blag me there are eyes in that moo
<diddledan_> davmor2: the eyes have it
 * diddledan_ got coffee \o/
<davmor2> diddledan_: just showing off now aren't you ;)
<diddledan_> teehee
<diddledan_> has anyone watched the fairly recent series 12 monkeys?
<diddledan_> I've just started it - intriguing
<diddledan_> I saw the film years ago and have forgotten pretty much everything about it
<diddledan> Xack, just spotted your /msg (it was hidden where I wasn't looking) not sure how long ago you sent it, but just wanted to let you know it wasn't ignored, just missed.
<Xack> diddledan: alright :)
<popey>  .38
<czajkowski> popey: ello
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<diddledan> popey: .38 gun calibre?
<leecowdrey_> moles need .44
<daftykins> ah a clients secretary's husband was telling me a great story of when Guernsey didn't have BBC2 or colour broadcasts yet, back in the 70s
<daftykins> he said his brother, who was quite the electronics whizz, used to climb out on their roof to adjust a custom rigged antenna to let them watch films on BBC2 XD
<diddledan> moles?
<zmoylan-pi> just how dangerous is a cornered mole??
<zmoylan-pi> do you need to nuke from orbit to be sure? :-)
<daftykins> always.
 * zmoylan-pi thanks the gods that moles drown in ireland...
<daftykins> out of interest can you folks visit http://www.tigerdirect.com/ ? it's been totally blocked for months from Guernsey IPs
<diddledan> daftykins, works here
<daftykins> weird, i wonder why we're blocked
<shauno> works here
<shauno> (</aol>, but I am in a different country)
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> oh i should try my VPN
<daftykins> wow - https://www.dropbox.com/s/dq6jmjlcgwt7xhy/Screenshot_2015-09-22-00-20-57.png?dl=0
<daftykins> can't even stop this from coming up after a browser cache clear
<zmoylan-pi> tigerdirect works here in ireland on vodafone isp
<daftykins> ty sir, i've email'd and asked what they have against rockdwellers :)
<zmoylan-pi> maybe they sell clock parts... :-P
<daftykins> XD
 * zmoylan-pi gives daftykins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_F-91W#Claimed_use_in_terrorism as a condolence... :-P
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i best show it to my teacher right away!
<zmoylan-pi> if you ping it what comes back?
<daftykins> the TD domain?
<zmoylan-pi> yeah
<daftykins> well it's gotta be chatting to give me the web server error + the above
<zmoylan-pi> 64 bytes from a23-200-102-69.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com (23.200.102.69): icmp_seq=1 ttl=59 time=19.4 ms
<zmoylan-pi> or is it been intercepted by isp...
<daftykins> ooh i don't get an akamai CDN at all no
<daftykins> 195.26.90.35 replies
<zmoylan-pi> try using different dns?
<daftykins> that should've been true of the phone test
<daftykins> oh my laptop is back on my ISP DNS, hrmmz
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, that's crazay
<zmoylan-pi> bad laptop ::smacks with rolled up newspaper:: bad!
<diddledan> I used to own one of those watches
<zmoylan-pi> security theatre...
<diddledan> I guess I'm a bad actor
<zmoylan-pi> my last casio watch had a game
<daftykins> ah no the above IP was .co.uk
<daftykins> 78.152.57.137 i get for .com
<zmoylan-pi> .co.uk gets 64 bytes from webfwd.daily.co.uk (195.26.90.35): icmp_seq=7 ttl=51 time=37.3 ms
<diddledan> I really like the "insane" girl in 12 monkeys
<diddledan> she's fun
<daftykins> now i get 88.221.113.32 for .com
<shauno> curious; that invalid request page.  is the email us link there, theirs?
<daftykins> siteissues@help.tigerdirect.com it was
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-22
<daftykins> hmm guy in Manchester is PM'ing me with a job offer after #ubuntu issues, haha
<daftykins> he might pop in and extend a job offer
<daftykins> i said i'm more of a hobbyist so he needs to ask the real people ;)
<diddledan> hah
<zmoylan-pi> mention that if he needs os/2 support you're his man :-D
<daftykins> i've never even seen that one XD
<zmoylan-pi> i knew os/2 was doomed when a guy in ibm started calling me... :-)
<daftykins> i sense these were not social calls!
<shauno> they named it 'half an OS'.  that wasn't clue enough?
<zmoylan-pi> no... how to make modems work faster which was a specialty of mine
<daftykins> wax!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> </Weird Al>
<zmoylan-pi> how to ensure that the serial port wasn't hampered by uart8250 chip.  ie rip that serial card out or disable it and replace with proper uart 16450
<zmoylan-pi> so apple may be planning electric car... when their phones struggle to make it through 1 day... :-)
<diddledan> hah
<daftykins> ^_^
<zmoylan-pi> and for the love of jobs don't plug your iphone in or it's range drops by half? :-)
<daftykins> but you don't drive overnight! ;)
<daftykins> just don't install any apps on your car that were compiled with a dodgy xcode
<daftykins> they might drive you off a cli... oh no wait that's the apple maps
<zmoylan-pi> and a new eula every 2-3 months...
<daftykins> speaking of which i mugged the clients iPad (one of them) with iOS 9 today
<daftykins> decided i'd back up beforehand ;)
<zmoylan-pi> what's needed is a c64 emulator that won't quit and pretend that's the upgrade :-D
<daftykins> funny part is it sits between the seat cushion and the armrest of a sofa about 3m from his office PC, so presumably he can appear to not be working, but still look at work email
<daftykins> an addict!
<diddledan> what a good electric car needs is a fart app
<zmoylan-pi> i will be gaming on the weekend with d&d, we all have tablets, ipads and android yet none of us uses them for holding the pdfs as reading pdfs on a tablet sucks
<shauno> what really is it about apple that turns you into drooling idiots?
<zmoylan-pi> ford toyed with the idea of downloadable horn noises a few years back... lawyers looked forward to the day when some eejit would beep their horn, it would sound like pew pew pew noises and some sucker wouldn't realise to get out of the way and get creamed...
<zmoylan-pi> shauno it's more the apple worship we like to make fun of
<shauno> well, I'm over it.  it just makes you look like an idiot
<zmoylan-pi> that's your choice, a lot of us enjoy it :-)
<shauno> I'm sitting here with a ubuntu-server box that can reboot 2 out of 3 attempts.  1 in 3 it just hangs
<shauno> and you're just .. what.
<shauno> sour someone managed to make a unix that actually works?
<zmoylan-pi> of course it's also funnt when the slashdot called the ipod less space than a nomad and no wifi, lame so it works both ways... :-)
<daftykins> d'aww c'mon shauno
<daftykins> aww
<zmoylan-pi> i would have recommended checking hardware first but he's gone...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: now you've done it!
<zmoylan-pi> then trying to boot live distro 3 times in a row to check the installed distro
<zmoylan-pi> i really really hate looking for intermittent bugs
<zmoylan-pi> they always seemed to end up on my desk
<daftykins> i'd kinda fallen under the impression you were retired and just hung out on here permanently :)
<zmoylan-pi> out of work after ill health.  still wonky from hip replacement and insomnia... so close
<daftykins> ah i see - hip jobs painful?
<zmoylan-pi> but i still get calls can you have a look at...
<zmoylan-pi> the pain now is insignificant compared with before hip replacement but still iffy.  mostly the sleep disturbance now.  can only sleep 4 hours at a time
<daftykins> ouch!
<zmoylan-pi> you sit on your hip, you walk on your hip, you stand on your hip and even when you sleep you put weight on your hip.  when it's bad it bad.
<zmoylan-pi> painkillers can take the edge off but you end up taking more and more as you use the hip when it hurts so you aim to use zero which limits you
<zmoylan-pi> so i can go a fair distance now but amn't much use at the end of it
<zmoylan-pi> or go no distance get a small amount of work done and no exercise which is bad too
<zmoylan-pi> when it was at it's worst i got sleep in 2 hour chunks for about a year...
<zmoylan-pi> sorry, rambling....
<zmoylan-pi> meanwhilest...
<daftykins> i'm reading :)
<daftykins> just snacking also :D
<daftykins> you get any physio to do? i should've done more when i broke my shoulder
<daftykins> i landed on it in Wales on my downhill MTB trip :)
<zmoylan-pi> oh, i got a lot of exercises to do and i do them.  the joint is fairly limber though i do still struggle to reach my foot.  also it hurts when full weight is placed on it so i use a cane
<zmoylan-pi> but still fairly lucky as when i was in for arthritis checks i saw a teenager in wheelchair with joints of an 90yo so it could have been much worse
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> yours was cartilage (sp) loss then, no accident or such?
<zmoylan-pi> they have no idea what caused my trouble.  possibly an undiagnosed medical condition so might just happen at random to another joint at any time.
<zmoylan-pi> ireland is a bugger though for arthritis as the damp and cold will cause it if you live here long enough
<daftykins> hmm, is the average weather really that much worse than the UK? i can imagine it on the west coast, being exposed and that, but i have no idea
<diddledan> yeah, ireland is where the weather dumps all it's poo to keep the mainland nice and sane
<diddledan> it's all organised between the monarchy and god
<zmoylan-pi> i'm beginning to think it's more the variability and quick changes that causes it more than the cold or damp as places get far more of both than ireland.  irish weather changes fast
<zmoylan-pi> so you go from warm and dry to wet and cold in a few minutes and the joints don't like it
<diddledan> as I said: long-standing agreements between the royals and god
<zmoylan-pi> well the celts told alexander the great they only feared the sky falling on their heads so they came to ireland :-)
<diddledan> it's the same reason britain doesn't have any volcanoes or serious earthquakes or huge tornadoes etc.
<zmoylan-pi> we do have hurricanes... just rarer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Big_Wind
<diddledan> no that wasn't the big wind, that was the large gust
<daftykins> ah i guess it's that rapid expansion and contraction like what does weathering on rocks :>
<daftykins> or is that :<
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK21WTlXOSI
<daftykins> definitely wintery feeling now, the cat is gravitating toward my lap far more often
<zmoylan-pi> cats know a comfy snoozing spot when they see one
<daftykins> she kept coming down to check whether it was free, going back up to the bedroom when it wasn't :)
<zmoylan-pi> ooooh, i did not know such a thing as flint javelin head existed... http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ancient-burial-site-discovered-in-kerry-697015.html
<diddledan> if you ask me, bollards are idiotic.. damned silly cones!
<diddledan> thinky it nearly time for morning coffee :-)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc_> g'day world
<knightwise> hey bashrc_
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<davmor2> mack the knife stuck in my head this morning, but what a classic to have stuck :)
<zmoylan-pi> any particular version?
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I love the rat packs version, Frank Sinatras in general, but the one I went for was Robbie Williams version from Swing when you're winning
<zmoylan-pi> just that some songs have so many variants that sound quite different...
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Business Womenâs Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwDMFOLIHxU
<JamesTait> Niiiine tooo fiiiive, what a way to make livin'!
<zmoylan-pi> i like that movie... great theme tune
<davmor2> the next video reminded me that Miley Cyrus Can actually sing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOwblaKmyVw
<davmor2> and apparently wear clothes
<leecowdrey_> and back again grrr - i'm no stinkin bot
<davmor2> hello
<leecowdrey_> ello
<BillyTi> hi all
<BillyTi> can anybody help me install kolab ... ?
<BillyTi> i have some errors installing kolab ob ubuntu 14.04 - i make apt-get install kolab and get this error: saslpasswd2: user not found dpkg:
<popey> where did you get kolab from?
<BillyTi> i followed the guide on kolab.org there are 2 repos i added to sources.list ...
<popey> https://docs.kolab.org/installation-guide/ubuntu.html
<popey> that guide?
<BillyTi> ya riht
<BillyTi> right
<popey> dunno, maybe ask in #kolab ?
<foobarry> fiddling with my laptop during a meeting while in suspend mode. unplugged battery. realised what i'd done. :-|
<popey> hah
<foobarry> finally fb added a "tell fb that a users accoutn is hacked"
<foobarry> previously it was "tell joe his account is hacked by sending a txt etc"
<ali1234> how do you clear a redirect from firefox cache?
<ali1234> you just delete it from history
<czajkowski> aloha
<bashrc_> greetings
 * brobostigon has his first game of magic in 15 odd years this afternoon.
<brobostigon> had*
<bashrc_> magic?
<zmoylan-pi> did you win?
<brobostigon> bashrc_: magic: the gathering, the card game.
<bashrc_> oh, I don't know of it
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: i died, i am too out of practice.
 * zmoylan-pi wonders where bashrc_ has been all this time...
<zmoylan-pi> and who made your deck?
<bashrc_> bash scripting, mostly
<brobostigon> i did.
<zmoylan-pi> ah...
<brobostigon> more practice required, :)
<zmoylan-pi> it's one of those games that if you don't play constantly and keep your deck up to date can lead to swift defeats
<brobostigon> exactly.
<bashrc_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: i play D&D now, but they arent that far different.
<zmoylan-pi> at gaelcon last year a few gamers were playing 'casually' using home printed decks (illegal in tournaments)... they've played since it started...
<zmoylan-pi> d&d you need a book, pencil and some dice. a printer and a tablet for pdfs is handy but not essential.
<brobostigon> wow.
<bashrc_> I played D&D to some extent in my late teens. I was never very good at it though, and often went off-script
<zmoylan-pi> magic requires an investment
<zmoylan-pi> time AND money
<brobostigon> yep.
<zmoylan-pi> some cards cost silly amounts of money
<brobostigon> D&D just requires a good imagination.
<zmoylan-pi> for d&d we added nerf...
 * brobostigon plays a human wizard with a staff the size of the statue of liberty.
<brobostigon> staf*
<brobostigon> monsters eyes get regularly poked out with it.
<zmoylan-pi> https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/612963111742644224/photo/1 :-)
<zmoylan-pi> sorry for the bluriness but i was trying to reload and take pics at same time...
<zmoylan-pi> but nerf has speeded up the rules lawyers as if they go on too long we just start shooting people
<zmoylan-pi> and i have sworn of games that are collectibles as they are quite expensive.  i'm hoping 3d printing becomes cheap enough to allow you to make your own soon enough
<brobostigon> yes, like making my own custom dice, :)
<zmoylan-pi> i suspect home made dice will get you the same treatment every where that they do in vegas :-)
<brobostigon> and make my own D&D figures.
<zmoylan-pi> someone started a kickstarter were 1 was removed on a d20 and a second d20 was printed there.  he was run out of town last i heard
<diddledan> dark already!
<diddledan> crazy winter
<zmoylan-pi> wait till the clocks change next month
<diddledan> ooh. heroes reborn starts this week
<zmoylan-pi> so will it sink to new lows or recapture the original series pacing
<zmoylan-pi> i'm going to give mr robot a shufty
<diddledan> I like mr robot
<zmoylan-pi> though i might get my 4 hours sleep first...
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> diddledan: the accents are making me cringe
<daftykins> "like, y'knooooooow?"
<th3s3_3y3s> What process runs mdns ?
<directhex> avahi?
<directhex> avahi      821     1  0 18:55 ?        00:00:01 avahi-daemon: running [bubblegum.local]
<th3s3_3y3s> Hi direct hex
<th3s3_3y3s> Do iso CDROM images use hex?
<daftykins> wat
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-23
<daftykins> dee-da-dee
<daftykins> where's the late night club? :D
<zmoylan-pi> woke up 2 hours ago, listening to yesterdays podcasts
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> what kinds of things do you follow?
<zmoylan-pi> twit, tech new tonight/today, irish documentary, bbc documentary, npr, no such thing as a fish, ted radio hour, infinite monkey cage,  this american life,  wait wait don't tell me, witness, bbc daily commute, few history podcasts
<daftykins> O_O
<zmoylan-pi> currently bbc great lives
<SADQUA> Good morning folks
<zmoylan-1i> o/
<SADQUA> Hello folks, I am looking for a system administrator in the north west area to do some contract work on our servers and infrastructure.
<SADQUA> Ubuntu, Python, Apache, MySQL, VMWare :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<davmor2> have you guys seen this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHR4oOIcVZo  wow what a voice.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy Restless Legs Awareness Day! âº
<popey> i read that as relentless legs
<davmor2> JamesTait: I know all about restless legs, my wife suffers from it, it is not fun.
<zmoylan-pi> but don't worry the phrama industry has a bunch of drugs to treat it
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: doesn't treat it it just suppresses it this isn't 100% reliable as we have discovered.
<MooDoo> howdy all
<selinuxium> Morning :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: how do?
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's more grammatically correct to say how do MooDoo... :-)
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> haha
<zmoylan-pi> and of course the rain in spain as ever falls mainly on the plain
<davmor2> popey, MooDoo: this just dropped into my head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-kcCNgd9SE
<lancilnove> irc.evilzone.org)
<lancilnove> hi
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: morning dude
<bigcalm> o/
<foobarry> !lts
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. Until 12.04 LTS versions of Ubuntu were supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server; since 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) LTS versions will be supported for 5 years on the desktop and server. The latest LTS version of Ubuntu is !Trusty (Trusty Tahr 14.04)
<brobostigon> !rms
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06bp38h
<popey> radio 4 now
<popey> computer games from the 1980s
<foobarry> i'm not sure of the point of these programmes
<foobarry> actually i just don't get radio4
<davmor2> popey: I think this is a nice track for JamesTait 's topic of the day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZaz7OqyTHQ
<popey> hahaha, foobarry grumpy old man before his time
<foobarry> isnt radio4 for GOM?
<foobarry> or where GOM learn about GTA and tombraider
<popey> I've listened to radio 4 for about 20 years
<popey> First started listening when I was a mobile engineer, used to time my drive home to listen to the 6:30 comedy
<Laney> R4 extra is worth checking out too
<JamesTait> davmor2, I approve of this brand of popular music. ð
<diddledan> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Error: unresolvable <alias> to isitout-#ubuntu-release-party
<diddledan> bah
<diddledan> lubotu3, you suck!
<bigcalm> Bit early to be asking
<diddledan> it might tell me about the beta :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: it might also hit you repeatedly with elastic bands fired from it's drone army of elastic band launchers :D
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> laccyband cannons are teh worst!
<foobarry> foobarry:
<diddledan> foobarry, are you having an out-of-body experience?
<foobarry> back in my body now
<bigcalm> Tum te tum
<diddledan> do be do
<selinuxium> Hi guys, anyone here had experience with opensll certs? Struggling getting logstash-forwarder to 'forward'
<davmor2> hi de hi
<selinuxium> s/opensll/openssl
<diddledan> ho de ho
<diddledan> selinuxium, what's the problem?
<selinuxium> Failed to tls handshake with 172.16.43.112 x509: certificate is valid for , not rb-lon-elk.redmayne.co.uk
<diddledan> self-signed certificate?
<selinuxium> yup
<selinuxium> sudo openssl req -subj '/CN=rb-lon-elk.redmayne.co.uk/' -x509 -days 3650 -batch -nodes -newkey rsa:2048 -keyout private/logstash-forwarder.key -out certs/logstash-forwarder.crt
<diddledan> aah that only creates a CSR
<diddledan> you then need to sign the CSR to create a cert
<selinuxium> ?
<diddledan> something along the lines of (for self-signed): openssl x509 -req -days <time-span> -in certs/logstash-forwarder.cert -signkey private/logstash-forwarder.key -out certs/logstash-forwarder.real-cert
<diddledan> I've taken account of the fact you saved a csr as .cert
<diddledan> usually you save CSRs as .csr
<diddledan> oh, I might be wrong actually - you do have an -x509 flag in your commandline.
<diddledan> I wasn't aware you could do it all-in-one-step
<selinuxium> yeah... Maybe I should not do it in one step.. But it definitely produces a cert.
<selinuxium> It is driving me nuts! lol
<diddledan> ok, in that case then I think your client is being too strict on verification
<diddledan> there should be an option in the configuration of the client to reduce it's checking
<davmor2> A rinky dinky, a rinky dink, a rinky dinky, a rinky dink
<diddledan> rinky dink dink
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWmd_XnO2kk
<diddledan> davmor2, how do you know so many choones?
<davmor2> diddledan: I'm old
<diddledan> even so, you must not do anything other than listen to moosics :-p
<diddledan> the hit ratio is far too high
<davmor2> diddledan: I used to driver lorries for a living so just listened to the radio all day for anything from 6-16 hours a day
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> that makes sense
<diddledan> although 16 hour day :-(
<diddledan> that's a long shift
<davmor2> diddledan: just depended on how long you were kept, trips to the doc were 3 day runs, and the doc is a 4 hour drive
<davmor2> you just had to sit in queue
<davmor2> diddledan: this is why popey likes to taunt me with his name something modern and why I like to hit him hard with something that is less than 10 years old to upset him :)
<diddledan> lol
 * diddledan bows at mention of the holy popey
<diddledan> "and the lord shall giveth, harry wheeler!"
<diddledan> who is harry wheeler?
<popey> wat
<diddledan> those religious folk are always calling out his name in celebration
<davmor2> diddledan: I know songs from way back till now, 2000â2015 is a lot more spotty that prior to 2000 that is due to there being mostly rap and really bad boy band music on the whole so the good exceptions are the ones that stuck in my head.  But pre 2000 most radio music is stored in my head somewhere from originals to covers to cover of covers
<davmor2> diddledan: also equates to why I always have a piece of music in my head :)  and hence the morning head songs playlist which is nearly 9 hours of music now iirc
<davmor2> 9hours 5 minutes nice
<MartijnVdS> that'as a long morning, davmor2
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I know right :D
<diddledan> evening
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> howdy
<daftykins> d'aww i have a little Western Digital 2 bay NAS unit that seems to have given up the ghost, disks are ok but i've returned to it twice now when it's been ridiculously hot and stopped responding to ping
<diddledan> :-(
<zmoylan-pi> air vents blocked?
<daftykins> (or rather it's a clients) it's probably 6 years old too
<daftykins> maybe more
<ali1234> today i learned about nested sets in SQL
<diddledan> VOODOO
<ali1234> joomla could be used as a case study in over-engineered OOP, turns out it's database schema is even worse
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I hate drupal's database usage
<diddledan> I haven't really played any with joomla
<ali1234> joomla is 300,000 lines of code that do nothing
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> \o/
<ali1234> anyway i need to write a python script to fix the nested set because i stuffed a load of rows into the table manually
<ali1234> the easiest way to do this is going to be select the entire table, generate it, and then update every row
<ali1234> http://robsite.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/3oc0f8.jpeg lol
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> do you know the muffin, man?
<daftykins> i study them as much as i can
<m0nkey_> the muffin man?
<diddledan> sigh, lenovo have been caught out again: https://boingboing.net/2015/09/22/yet-another-pre-installed-spyw.html
<m0nkey_> i know the muffin man, who lives down on Drury lane.
<diddledan> yeah, that's him
<zmoylan-pi> lenovo do like their spyware, don't they?
<m0nkey_> well, she's married to the muffin man
<daftykins> the above is still a factory install
<m0nkey_> lenovo used to be the mutts nuts. today they're a joke.
<daftykins> no mention of the model either, so far only non-biz ones have been naughty (little consolation i know)
<diddledan> I need to have a nosey on my dad's newish lenovo desktop to see if any of these nasties are on there
<daftykins> does he run Windows or?
<zmoylan-pi> nobody spying on him but windows 8 :-)
<diddledan> he got it pretty much a month before the superfish thingy happened
<diddledan> he's running win10 on it
<zmoylan-pi> no spyware in win10, no siree
<diddledan> it came with 8 and he got off that asap :-p
 * m0nkey_ is waiting for NCIX to ship his new AP he pre-ordered.
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> m0nkey_, which one did you get?
<m0nkey_> Ubiquiti UAP-AC-PRO
<m0nkey_> the second generation one
<diddledan> nice
<diddledan> those UAPs are funky
<m0nkey_> It'll replace my UniFi AP
<m0nkey_> which is only 2.4
<diddledan> I want a new rooter
<m0nkey_> i recommend the ubiquiti edgemax poe
<m0nkey_> https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-poe/
<daftykins> arsenip: might nip over to London on Thursday the 8th, you still in the same pad? might try catching up with shiver if you remember from quakenet time
<diddledan> that london?!
<diddledan> scary things happen in that london!
<daftykins> yep! the big one!
 * daftykins nods
<daftykins> i might fail to use the underground spectacularly again
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> I _always_ fail to use the underground
<daftykins> glad i'm not the only one :>
<diddledan> I have no idea what to do down there
<diddledan> so much so that I often stand on the left of the escalators
<daftykins> oh you fiend!
<daftykins> i at least know of that one :>
<daftykins> my primary school in fact had a stairs side rule
<diddledan> my schools were both "always walk and stair on the left"
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-24
<zmoylan-pi> we threw people off the fire escape. the rule was watch out below :-)
<diddledan> I love that about drupal: every time you hack core god kills a kitten
<diddledan> the problem is d8 is based on symfony which has the exact opposite mantra
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggrAXmG9aEU
<diddledan> thats what I'm currently watching
 * zmoylan-pi watched first episode of the new muppet show... i'll be buying that on dvd when it's released :-)
<daftykins> :D
<Welshman> Hi.
<daftykins> hello
<MooDoo> morning
<diddledan> merning
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc_> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday, and happy Punctuation Day! ð
 * zmoylan-pi looks suspiciously at that semi colon...
<JamesTait> I think I'm missing a comma, too.
<zmoylan-pi> itwassomucheasierwhentherewerenospacescommasorfullstops:-)
<dutchie> for the writer, maybe :P
<zmoylan-pi> well at the time they were writing on vellum and cows cost serious money :-)
<davmor2> JamesTait: I hate punctuation, I'm gonna hit you so hard you come to a fullstop and end up in a comma......badumtish! ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bpIbdZhrzA
<JamesTait> Very good, davmor2. ð
<diddledan> lol, davmor2, that phonetic punctuation video is class!
 * brobostigon has found a version of magic, for android, :)
<zmoylan-pi> play online? free game?
<brobostigon> single and or multiplayer, and free.
<selinuxium> Back again... :) o/
<selinuxium> Still having issues with certs.. :) Any cert officiandos in the house?
<selinuxium> :)
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: its free to play to a point, Â£7.80. :(
<diddledan> Â£7.80 counts as free?
<zmoylan-pi> it did sound too good to be true
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: iap's.
<foobarry> had a discussion whether i could siwtch from 1 disk to a 2 disk raid system without rebuilding...found "raider"
<foobarry> anyone used it?
<diddledan> foobarry, if you're switching up to raid-1 then it should be fairly simple
<ujjain> what can explain scp -r host1:/tmp/* host2:/tmp/* not working? I can connect fine to those hosts seperately.
<diddledan> 1) create new partition on blank disk for raid. 2) initialise that partition as degraded raid-1 (only one device present) 3) format new "array". 4) copy data. 5) nuke old partition and introduce into array as second member
<diddledan> ujjain, you can't do remote-to-remote
<ujjain> I want remote via local to rmeote
<diddledan> ujjain, you'll need to copy to your own system first
<ujjain> ah :(
<diddledan> alternatively login to one of those systems and copy directly
<ujjain> yeah, there is no conncetivity
<ujjain> between those servers
<diddledan> you could cheat by doing a pair of ssh tunnels and tar
<foobarry> didn't work for grub
<diddledan> ssh host1 tar -C /tmp cf - | ssh host2 tar -C /tmp xf -
<diddledan> that might work but I may be wrong with the syntax
<diddledan> foobarry, yeah you'll need to rebless the grub install :-/
<diddledan> grub-install /dev/md0 might do it
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: man what time do you call this to drag yourself out of bed ;)
<bigcalm> I feel so tired
 * diddledan sleeps
<foobarry> starting from scratch, wondering whether to use btrfs
<foobarry> on my work desktop
<diddledan> seriously? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U2DKKqxHgE
<popey> heh, my reaction too
<zmoylan-pi> there have been some weird movies made for videogames...
<diddledan> like doom?
<diddledan> lol that was terrible
<zmoylan-pi> super mario brothers was terrible
<diddledan> oh god yes!
<zmoylan-pi> is there any movie made about a game that wasn't?
<diddledan> good point
<zmoylan-pi> battleship was made into a movie, wasn't it?
<diddledan> resident evil were ok
<diddledan> yeah battleship starring rhianna
<zmoylan-pi> can't go wrong with zombies
<zmoylan-pi> well you can but it's harder
<popey> i liked resident evil
<diddledan> popey, I'm waiting for the next installment with anticipation
<ball> It's eerily quiet in here.
 * zmoylan-pi and the 100 ninjas + predators watch ball
<zmoylan-pi> it's tea time and folk are afk :-)
<yungBLUD_> Hey, can anyone help with Ubuntu wifi issues?
<davmor2> arrives disappears doesn't wait for an answer nice
<DJones> Didn't even respond in #ubuntu either
<brobostigon> and 2 secs is hardly enough time to do anything.
<diddledan> wait, I needed to answer that one!
<MartijnVdS> http://www.theabsolutesound.com/answers/204/
<DJones> diddledan: 42
<davmor2> popey: come and live in Heathtown most of the residents are evil
<daftykins> how do you do a proper HTTP GET over telnet o0
<daftykins> ah it's ok i got some HTML back, this NAS toy is still acting weird
<daftykins> web admin won't come up but it's still responding to ping
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-25
<m0nkey_> I just type GET / with two carriage returns
<daftykins> is your / included or just signifying the enters? did seem it wanted two
<daftykins> ah well this NAS is totally dead, not getting the web admin at all
<zmoylan-pi> not responding to reset/reflash?
<daftykins> nope, it sits there doing nothing but running the disks hot if i try prodding the reset button
<daftykins> it's about 7 years old so i think it's just game over
<daftykins> doesn't even power on properly anymore
<zmoylan-pi> not worth the risk of important files then
<daftykins> nah, it's just a backup so i'll buy in a Â£100 synology 2 bay, throw the disks over, nuke them and get it back up and running
<zmoylan-pi> though i did have a novell server that needed a double start for 5+ years
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i haven't inspected the caps inside, so there's that
<zmoylan-pi> huge full height hard drive that had a real slow spin up speed.  you'd start the server, wait for it to fail, listen carefully till it reached it's max speed then reset and novell was your server for another year till the next powercut reboot :-)
<zmoylan-pi> and i had to put a label on the front to remind everyone about this as every time there was a powercut people would panic when novell didn't restart
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> it's funny how much you try to give them documentation so they don't have to call you in again, but still they will
<zmoylan-pi> in this case, a strip of masking tape with 'don't try and restart without moylan present' written on it
<zmoylan-pi> beside the switch on front of case
<daftykins> one client has a little postit beside the power button of his secondary screen to say 'don't turn me off' but it's actually just an odd power button that needs holding in for a sec :>
<zmoylan-pi> i do sometimes wonder how long a mug i strategically placed to allow printers in an office to work via ir lasted in middle of a desk sitting on sheet of paper saying. 'do not move this mug!!'
<zmoylan-pi> we did have packing tape covering a power switch in one location but the md did pull it off and switch off the machine using expensive electricity at night
<zmoylan-pi> he of course switched it off in middle of a year end run and then discovered he hadn't replaced the secretary who was swapping in and out the backup tapes
<zmoylan-pi> saved about 20p worth of leccy, generated about irÂ£10,000 worth of a data recovery bill
<daftykins> >_<
<daftykins> was the mug bouncing an infrared beam?
<zmoylan-pi> around the time of hp lj4 printer, hp desktops had ir port as standard.  was asked by a mate to configure a printer they had just gotten. went onsite and they had no spare parallel cable so i set up ir.  all bouncing of shiny mug :-)
<zmoylan-pi> the nearest shop selling parallel cable was over an hour away on foot so saved time :-)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i bet my psion 3c could've printed to that :D
<zmoylan-pi> that was what gave me the idea...
<zmoylan-pi> i LOVED my psions
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i think it was the only way young me could get something close to a laptop
<zmoylan-pi> it was a full system that fitted in a holster and survived long commute and i could walk around ware house doing stock takes typing at 35wpm on it
 * zmoylan-pi moseys off to the loo while my router plots its 0500 reboot...
<daftykins> right on time o0
<Moodoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<Moodoo> morning brobostigon davmor2
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Comic Book Day! ð
<brobostigon> hi Moodoo
<bashrc_> morning
<davmor2> JamesTait: just for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BFYBO5Brtc
<JamesTait> davmor2, I only know someone who completed Ironman Wales, I didn't do it myself!
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk1aQx9hTaE
<JamesTait> davmor2, https://www.beano.com/
<davmor2> JamesTait: DC and Marvel are comics too :P
<JamesTait> davmor2, definitely!  I wasn't really into them, tbh.  I just watched the films.
<zmoylan-pi> 2000ad was my comic of choice
<TwistedLucidity> There's a guy selling old books on out high street on Sundays. I bought a load of old 2000AD annuals \o/
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNwqVUyqqTY
<zmoylan-pi> i await a really really good ereader so all those 2000ad cbr files i found can be read as nicely as the comics were when i was a kid
<davmor2> JamesTait: for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn-3U4aAzUw
<zmoylan-pi> i really liked the new judge dredd movie, pity it didn't make much money
<Myrtti> ooh. new kernel.
 * zmoylan-pi stands and plays anthem for a new kernel :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjxNnqTcHhg
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: It was good. I found it very similar to "The Raid".
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: Shouldn't it be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YLDv_rBfVM for a new kernel
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I am the god of hell fire, and I bring you Fire FIRE!!!!!
<davmor2> it'll heat the popcorn nicely :)
<popey> oooh
<popey> the kids school have put a promo video up which has a nice fly-by done with a dronw
<popey> *drone
<davmor2> popey: you are evil if you drown drones
<bashrc_> drone drowner
<bashrc_> but you could fit floats to a drone, so that it wouldn't drown
<davmor2> Wow never realised that the music in Enigma's T.N.T for the brain is so scarily similar to Sheila B. Devotion Spacer
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, popcorn for a new kernel? is that because you like watching all the machines it b0rks?
<diddledan> what's interesting about that video is the single they're playing is ripped out of a jukebox
<diddledan> there's some awesome choreography for the tune here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfdLh0MHqKw
<diddledan> then there's the techno version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN8iRqAFQQo
<directhex> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7UmUX68KtE ?
<diddledan> directhex, lol
<directhex> here's something fun - the song the futurama theme song is a remix of. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOqfWj0HqNE
<diddledan> that's the futurama introduction video, too :-p
<zmoylan-pi> if the the drone drowns it's not a witch :-)
<zmoylan-pi> whoops, replying to way... earlier... :-)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> fool
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> give me a break i have to be awake all night :-)
<diddledan> http://store.virginmedia.com/special-offers/speed-upgrade.html \o/
<foobarry> talktalk just upped their prices around 15%
<diddledan> :-(
<TwistedLucidity> I hope that includes upspeed, because VM's totally sucks ass
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity, ispreview guess at the upload being increased to 20Mbps on the top-tier
<diddledan> ref: http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/09/speed-tests-hint-of-faster-virgin-media-broadband-upload-speeds.html
<popey> virgin put theirs up too
<popey> they do every time they do speed bumps
<jpds> popey: I'm just spoilt by the speeds we get in the office
<foobarry> this might push me over the edge
<foobarry> ISPs generally make money from price hikes applied to existing customer base
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah. I'm on a friends&family deal with VM. Seemed good value a few years ago, now I'm not so sure.
<popey> same here
<popey> handy given the guy left VM and I still have the deal though
<TwistedLucidity> When we move, might look into a pure ISP-play. SIP phones etc.
<TwistedLucidity> No TV, just Internet.
<TwistedLucidity> Not as if I can be bothered watching "Historic Alien Dog Catchers Exposed" or whatever on NatGeo....
<foobarry> whats the cheapest ISP broadband deal? no tv
<zmoylan-pi> using your neighbours? :-)
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Probably still TalkTalk.
<foobarry> mehh
<TwistedLucidity> Although I'd probably consider someone like A&A and pay for competence.
<foobarry> the broadband just works
<TwistedLucidity> Or move to the country and join b4rn. Gigabit symmetric.
<diddledan> hah, I had one of those until recently when dad switched providers: http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/09/ee-uk-botches-customer-emails-after-domain-renewal-fail.html
<diddledan> (I was the signatory on the account from way back in the 90s and I just switched the DirectDebit over to dad when I left home. he only recently switched away)
<zmoylan-pi> did he have to return the 14,400 modem? :-)
<directhex> diddledan: my dad will get screwed when he tries to change ISP, and he *deserves it*. i advised him not to rely on his ISP address more than a decade ago
<directhex> and he should have learned when he moved from BT Internet to Demon.
<popey> hah
<popey> my father in law still uses his too
<popey> i keep telling him
<zmoylan-pi> my original email address had a 3mb mail box...
<zmoylan-pi> i still remember the password letters AND numbers
<popey> I still use my first isp password :)
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: The last mail address I closed down, I think I moved and then left it for ~2 years to be 100% I'd migrated everything that was important.
<TwistedLucidity> Then I killed it.
<bashrc> ISP email addresses are better than gmail. At least with the isp the user is the customer
<TwistedLucidity> Ditching GMail is going to be a pain.
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc: Most ISPs simply re-brand GMail or similar. They have little-to-no control
<bashrc> ugh
<popey> not any more
<popey> VM have just moved away to some other open source mail system
<popey> because google shutdown their GApps for ISPs
<jpds> popey: roundcube?
<bashrc> google has too much of a stranglehold on email
<popey> no
<popey> some other thing
<foobarry> zimbra?
<diddledan> rainloop
<diddledan> ?
<popey> I tweeted it a week or two ack
<popey> https://twitter.com/popey/status/644105645327818752
<jpds> Wow, I just tried the demo, looks cluttered
<jpds> (Also the document section is called "Drive")
<popey> yeah, its not great
<popey> not that I'll be using it
<popey> just migrated my vm gmail over then closed the tab
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/yurivictor/status/647465813994303488
<diddledan> interesting start to heroes reborn last night
<diddledan> I'm not so sure this is a good idea: https://make.wordpress.org/core/2015/09/25/changes-to-fields-output-by-comment_form-in-wordpress-4-4/
<diddledan> I always expect the name and email to be the first thing filled-in
<diddledan> or rather I expect that order when I fill-out a form
<mapo> Hi all
<diddledan> allo
<mapo> Moved apartment now
<mapo> So no net :(((
<mapo> Went in and asked when ir might be and got told no idea !:(
<mapo> Â£39for 50mbit tv ans phone
<mapo> Seems ok
<mapo> Was paying Â£82  with gibtel for 100mbit only
<diddledan> you use british money? I figured you'd be using spanish potatoes
<diddledan> or even euros
<mapo> Im in gib not spain
<mapo> Im not poor lol
<diddledan> I forgot spain ditched the potatoes for euro
<mapo> All the brits that come to gib and work on the phones live in gib!
<mapo> Its so silly cheap
<mapo> 700 euros for a 3,bed vs Â£1000-1200 fotr a one bed in gib
<mapo> Uses euros ans pounds in gib but when ysing euros you get raped they charge more
<diddledan> 700 * 1.2 isn't much different to 1100
<mapo> Its 1.4
<diddledan> oh?
<mapo> Look at current rate
<mapo> 1.38-1/4
<diddledan> I thought the pound to american was 1.4
<mapo> But still 3 bed 500 odd quid vs 1000-1200 1 bed
<mapo> Is a bit different
<diddledan> I'm confused
<mapo> Of?
<diddledan> Â£500 in euro for a 3-bed and Â£1100 in pounds for a 1-bed?
<mapo> You can get a ,3 bed for 700 in spain whicg is around ,500 quid
<mapo> A one bed in gib is 1100
<mapo> Get it?:)
<mapo> 1100 pounds
<diddledan> I'm not seeing any raping from euros there
<diddledan> 3bed > 1bed, and 1100 > 500
<mapo> Nooo i mean if you pay for stuff in euros in givpb
<mapo> Gib
<mapo> You get a bs rate
<mapo> So say yiu go to a restaurant Â£20
<mapo> Pay in euros maybe 37 or something
<mapo> Will be a ripoff
<diddledan> but 20*1.4 = 38 so that sounds about right
<mapo> Gah damn
<mapo> Ok 45
<mapo> I gave a bad example
<diddledan> heh
<mapo> Its worse trust me
<mapo> Like yiu can pay with pounds in Prague
<diddledan> I guess it's the way of things on border-regions
<mapo> But its beyond a ripoff
<mapo> Yea
<mapo> Look up la linea de la concepcion and you'll see
<mapo> Its grotty but cheap
<diddledan> the gibraltarnians probably prefer to keep their banks in pounds so they charge non-pound payments more
<mapo> 500 for a 3 bed is nothing and yet peoole live like students living three to a house
<mapo> Screw doing that at 30!!!!
<daftykins> ouch
<daftykins> yeah no sharing
<popey> Evening slackers
<daftykins> o/
<diddledan> so there's another pretender to slack's crown that's been opensourced today by dropbox: https://zulip.com
<popey> diddledan: also, mattermost
<diddledan> popey, yeah, I'm intriguied by mattermost being bundled with gitlab
<popey> yeah
<popey> seems like a good ide
<popey> *idea
<diddledan> unfortunately my colleagues don't see the benefit of moving away from slack's freebie
<czajkowski> popey: you're up late
<czajkowski> kids ok ?
<popey> lies
<popey> yes
<popey> :)
<popey> just friday night chillin, playing games and actually now bed
<popey> zzz
<popey> ooh, it's caturday
 * popey gets a cat pic
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> mines curled up on my lap as i watch a film and IRC
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-26
<czajkowski> my new boss teaches kids how to program and minecraft stuff
<czajkowski> he and his son have written a book
<daftykins> o0
<czajkowski> I feel like I need to go back and learn how to write code :)
<czajkowski> he teaches kids from 7:30 -8:15am each morning to kids
<czajkowski> daftykins: new boss is Arun Gupta
<daftykins> that seems far less time than needed to get anything even started
<daftykins> i don't know who that is
<czajkowski> https://twitter.com/arungupta
<popey> https://twitter.com/popey/status/647561191854899200
<popey> \o/ cats
<popey> diddledan: I used to teach kids to code, you can get them up and running pretty quick
<popey> After School code clu
<popey> *club
<popey> Time runs out quick though, the fast ones end up running out of stuff to do early on while the slower ones need help
<popey> Tis good getting the fast ones to help the slow ones
<daftykins> i'd think the first 30 mins is teething problems :>
<daftykins> i've taught, hardware lessons too - those were painful
<daftykins> 12-18 at once :(
<zmoylan-pi> well depends on what size stick you use... >:-)
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> you'd never have a cattle prod last the day for a class size of 12-18 :-P
<daftykins> too true
<daftykins> unless it were powered off the mains, one benefit of a fixed room to teach in
<zmoylan-pi> yeah but stretching a power lead the length of a class. health and safety would be all over that :-)
<daftykins> :D
 * daftykins installs it at the door
<daftykins> *tzzzt* welcome x n
<daftykins> we never got shauno back after the fruity tech ribbing :(
<zmoylan-pi> the rest of the school watching the flickering lights...
<zmoylan-pi> he must have been stuck with a sticky problem, we've all had days like that, hope he comes back
<diddledan> I'm not going to say anything about ribbed tech
<daftykins> diddledan may know of his whereabouts
<zmoylan-pi> fishing for condoms in canal again? :-)
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> such classy talk we have, here in late night club
 * daftykins fetches another Guinness
<diddledan> tis 'cos popey doesn't chastise me
<diddledan> I've got a nice new simple logo
<diddledan> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> it's a coffee ring on a printout? :-)
<daftykins> bit of tractor feed era paper
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> https://www.behance.net/wip/1385905/2393229
<diddledan> much less embiggened and complex when compared to my old one: https://www.behance.net/wip/359537/671533
<diddledan> I might use the old one as a mast-head tho
<daftykins> i think my cat is high
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6ayu4ssdjnum9z/IMG_20150926_035008.jpg?dl=0
<mapppppp> Hi alk
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<m6lpi> Morning
<popey> Morning
<zmoylan-pi> i spi with my little pi another pi? :-)
<dogmatic69_> anyone know how I can add wifi to a switch
<dogmatic69_> my router + wifi is in the lounge, pc in garage via eth. phone is on 3G because no wifi
<dogmatic69_> I have a range extender but it tries to connect to the existing wifi which is out of range, need something that can just plug into the switch
<popey> dogmatic69_: i fixed this by having a second access point at the other end of the house, connnected to the first via devolo ethernet over power adapters
<popey> works perfectly
<popey> whole house is covered by two APs, one in my office which is near me, so yay, good speed, and one in the centre of the house for everyone else
<dogmatic69_> well I have gigabit eth here, just no wifi
<dogmatic69_> mainly looking for AP that is eth->wifi and not just a wifi repeater
<popey> yeah, i have gbe in my office
<popey> but not all devices have ethernet ports
 * popey looks at 10 devices on his desk which don't
<dogmatic69_> the one I bought has eth, but its out :/
<dogmatic69_> the AP that is ^
<diddledan> dogmatic69_, are you sure you can't switch the mode on your repeater to be a bridge?
<diddledan> bridge/ap
<dogmatic69_> I am looking, its a WN3000RP
<popey> flash something else on it?
<dogmatic69_> looking at that also
<popey> Both my WNDR3700's have been flashed, one with ddwrt and the other with openwrt
<diddledan> dang, the faq on netgear.com has the bad news as the first item: http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/19070/~/wn3000rp-faqs
<popey> the openwrt one is a bridge
<diddledan> specifically the stock firmware won't do it
<dogmatic69_> aw, "No. Your extender is designed to work as an AP-client bridge, not an access point." on the site...
<dogmatic69_> diddledan: ta, spotted that just at the same time... checking for new firmware now
<Tammyton> Hey, is anyone around?
<penguin42> imagine we were
<Tammyton> my imagination isn't that great
<Tammyton> jk.  I'm just about to install ubuntu. Are there any good getting started guides available? I've never used linux before.
<penguin42> hmm, I've not done that for a long long time, not sure what the current best things are
<Tammyton> oh okay
<Tammyton> someone's just directed me to the help page. thanks anyway
<penguin42> Tammyton: One thing, try and mess with stuff - there's lots of stuff what ever you're interested
<Tammyton> Will do :) I'll just be using a VM so I don't have to worry about breaking stuff
<penguin42> oh you probably wont
<Tammyton> Do you think 20GB will be enough to install the OS, and have a mess around with it?
<penguin42> oh yes
<Tammyton> oh great, thanks
<penguin42> WH Smiths seems to be getting desperate on ice cream sales; 75% off in Manc, last magnum of the year for 47p
<Tammyton> wow lol
<Tammyton> Probably trying to sell them all before the winter
<penguin42> nod
<DJones> Or close to sell by date
<penguin42> DJones: This was the whole unit with a mix of different icecreams, so I suspect they want to move it out of the way
 * brobostigon just had to explain to his gf, where the name dalek comes from, and that it is just a simple anagram.
 * penguin42 admits he doesn't know
<brobostigon> davros who created the daleksbeing a kaled?
<brobostigon> davros who created the daleks being a kaled?
<penguin42> see I haven't really watched Dr. Who since the Tom Baker days
<brobostigon> i believe the fact was known way back when william hartnell was the doctor.
<penguin42> well it was more of an indication of how long I'd been not paying attention to it
<brobostigon> i see.
<Tammyton> reaaaally late reply, but I haven't really watched it since Matt smith's first season
<ali1234> my mum bought a pack of three usb flash drives
<daftykins> mmhmm?
<ali1234> they are all identical of course
<ali1234> but in windows, one of them shows as a removable drive, the other two show as local fixed drives
<ali1234> why?
<daftykins> well, there is that option for having drives optimised for quick removal or not, i wonder if that's related
<ali1234> i checked that, setting is identical on all three
<penguin42> hmm weird
<ali1234> the software she uses, brother PE design, uses flash drives to transfer patterns to her sewing machine
<daftykins> oh right
<daftykins> so one's working and two aren't?
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> because the software has a menu item "send to flash drive"
<penguin42> ali1234: If you plug it into a linux system and look at /sys/class/block/sd???/removable what does it say?
<daftykins> tried a 'clean' with diskpart?
<ali1234> so it doesn't recognize that two of them are flash drives because of this
<daftykins> though i don't really see my idea having any effect
<ali1234> you can still "save as" and select the drive manually and it does the same thing
<ali1234> penguin42: it matches the observed behaviour in windows
<daftykins> oh so it's lower level for sure
<daftykins> obviously cheap tat :)
<penguin42> ali1234: Weird
<ali1234> they're sandisk
<penguin42> oh
<penguin42> hmm
<daftykins> i think sandisk are the #1 target of fakes
<ali1234> also weirdly the one that is removable appears to have an activity LED, the other two don't
<ali1234> bought from PC world
<penguin42> ali1234: 2 possibilities, 1) They're not really sandisk  2) Sandisk used to have this weird thing where some drives would present both a flashdrive and a cd with some installation software to do something weird
<penguin42> ali1234: What does /proc/scsi/scsi show for the 2 different types of drives?
<ali1234> identical except the removable has a different revision number
<penguin42> were these in a 3 pack?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> cruzer facet 8GB
<penguin42> double weird
<daftykins> ah yeah perhaps penguin42 speaks of the 'U3' drives
<penguin42> possibly; my dad had some that were a pain
<penguin42> ali1234: Perhaps you should try usb_modeswitch on them - although that shouldn't happen for a thumb drive
<ali1234> i doubt that would do anything really
<penguin42> agrres, although I'm out of ideas
<ali1234> maybe if i install the sandisk software
<ali1234> i reckon that they've manufactured a load of flash drives in different colours
<daftykins> i'd return 'em
<ali1234> then taken the ones that didn't sell, and repackaged them with newer models in different colours as a three pack
<ali1234> the odd one out has a lower revision number
<ali1234> these were bought ages ago so we can't return them
<ali1234> they seem to work fine
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> i've decided cheap flash drives are a false economy :) despite seeing a Â£24.99 128GB USB 3.0 with 90MB/sec read recently
<daftykins> i ignored it :>
<penguin42> well the problem though is you say 'cheap' but generally would thing a sandisk drive would work
<daftykins> i just mean in general there
<daftykins> yeah their rep used to be good
<penguin42> but I mean it's more potluck than being able to make a judgement on cost or brand
<daftykins> i'm not so sure it's that wildly open
<ali1234> they do work tho
#ubuntu-uk 2015-09-27
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0zWkWrWlBY
<daftykins> another person nearly killed in the cycle lane here Â¬_Â¬
<penguin42> well if people will insist on riding on a pair of wheels with nothing around them other than a coat and a hat
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> not so amusingly is that guy worked with the one that got killed on the same corner 2 years ago
<ali1234> i think it would be worse if it was the other way around
<daftykins> ?
<ali1234> it's like "wow, i'm so lucky not to end up like my friend" vs "i knew this was going to happen but i couldn't do anything about it"
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<penguin42> anyone recommend for/against any compatible toner companies ?
<ali1234> #android ... how do these people even figure out how to use irc?
<penguin42> they probably got an app to tell them
<popey> Afternoon
<penguin42> hey popey
<ali1234> ubuntu can't install onto an 8GB partition any more.
<popey> yeah, it's grown a bit
<ali1234> what i don't understand is how you managed to get 800% compression
<ali1234> that's an absurd ratio
<ali1234> the xubuntu iso is only 200MB smaller, after install it's like 3GB
<ali1234> also, wily installer says i need 7.8GB, but an 8GB virtualbox partition will crash during install with an apport that takes you to the bug report that gets generated when the installer runs out of space, was reported several years ago, and still doesn't have a bug pattern or a sensible error message in the installer
<Tammyton> Hey, I'm new to linux. How do I do this? "Update your packagelist using your package manager"
<Tammyton> I'm using ubuntu
<penguin42> ali1234: Some stuff is ludicrously compressable, but also watch out for the 1st set of updates that you get after install
<ali1234> unity is still painfully slow in virtualbox too
<directhex> everything is. virtualbox's GL implementation is a toy
<penguin42> does it have one or is it using llvm in the guest
<daftykins> do books not get VAT?
<daftykins> paperbacks
<penguin42> literary works are apparently 0 rated
<penguin42> https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-70110-zero-rating-of-books-and-other-forms-of-printed-matter/vat-notice-70110-zero-rating-of-books-and-other-forms-of-printed-matter
<penguin42> hmm not sure why that part of the URL is repeated, but apparently it is
<daftykins> ty sir :>
<daftykins> 'tis an alien thing to me
<daftykins> funny one in a shop just before, a guy asked if there was a casino he could waste his time in for the evening
<daftykins> i said nope sorry it's Sunday, everything'll close up before midnight for sure and there'll be nothing :)
<penguin42> daftykins: Someone in the US sent me some promotional material the other week for work; beer mats, bookmarks etc - they guessed at a figure of $50; I got a fedex bill for 37GBp
<daftykins> ugh how come they charged you o0
<penguin42> daftykins: Well, I guess it's vatable and it's the recipient I guess who gets it (although apparently it should have gone on the internal fedex account)
<diddledan> evenin
<ali1234> penguin42: i installed guest utils and it's still slow
<ali1234> also multimonitor doesn't work for some reason, it used to
<popey> I hear VMWare fusion is way better for GL
<Azelphur> http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/cello-7-quad-core-tablet-white-from-misco-plus-delivery-10-27-2290084 that is ridiculously cheap, amazing the world we live in now days
<popey> the 10" one is a tenner!?
<popey> must be a misprice
<zmoylan-pi> fresh child labour with the new school year? :-/
<Azelphur> popey: god alone knows, tempting to just wall mount one in every room for home automation
<Azelphur> would only cost like 40 quid
<zmoylan-pi> how much automation is required for it to be worth a wall panel in every room, lights, heat, security, front door intercom...
<dogmatic69_> zmoylan-pi: what you mean?
<popey> they will not fulfill those orders, surely
<zmoylan-pi> a wall panel using a cheap mounted android tablet sounds neat, but i'm just curious as to what different folk think would require to be automated before they'd go that far dogmatic69_
<diddledan> terminator genisys is good
<diddledan> I really do love the terminator theme music
<diddledan> nice early 90s industrial synth
<zmoylan-pi> so better or worse the t3 t4?
<diddledan> better than t3
<zmoylan-pi> not difficult
<diddledan> t4 was a bit skewed though 'cos it doesn't have any timehopping
<zmoylan-pi> wasn't great either
<diddledan> true
<diddledan> I think it stands ok on it's own but as part of a series it falls short (t4, I mean)
<diddledan> they kinda completely ignored t4 in genisys
<diddledan> really I think t1, 2 and 5 work as a trilogy - the rest are just silly
<zmoylan-pi> now they just need to reboot the series to remove t3 and t4... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of time travel story...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-26
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> when the lights only go green for 10seconds...you are 50yds from the bus stop and have to endure a 10 min wait because the driver won't let you off early :(
<zmoylan-1i> on the old routemasters you just tucked and rolled tot he kerb... :-)
<foobarry> yeah. we were stationary...
<zmoylan-pi> catching buses after they pulled away was possible too
<foobarry> once we had a customer revolt and pressed the emergency button
<zmoylan-pi> i was on a bus once when the driver didn't open the doors at a really important stop, i think he didn't notice. so while bus was in traffic i wrenched the door open and got off while bus was stuck in traffic followed by a dozen or so others
<foobarry> there's a button above the door
<zmoylan-pi> i was so angry that i didn't even consider it
<zmoylan-pi> i have ripped the doors open before when a driver closed them on my laptop bag and started to drive away
<foobarry> typically the most angry people are the ones who prmptly step into the path of a cyclist
<zmoylan-pi> so went with what i knew worked
<zmoylan-pi> i always check for cyclists carefully
<zmoylan-pi> even moron ones going wrong way on one way street
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: that's cause cycle lanes don't have directions on them ;)
<zmoylan-pi> for them i usually take a stance that indicates it'll hurt them more than it hurts me
<zmoylan-pi> if they're on a cycle lane then they're not breaking the law, if they aren't then they're idiots who need a punching
<popey> Morning all :)
<davmor2> There are two things that really annoy me, Cyclist who don't stop at traffic lights because amazingly the law doesn't apply to them and those that cycle on the footpath, I still think cycling proficiency should be mandatory at schools as should lights and reflectors
<popey> i found my cycling proficiency certificate over the weekend
<popey> from ~30 years ago
<davmor2> popey: man you were old when you took yours
<davmor2> popey: I was in 1st or second year of Cubs so 8-9 maybe
<davmor2> so nearer 40 than 30 man I feel old now
<foobarry> i never took mine since they were racist against bmx and grifters
<davmor2> foobarry: no they weren't you just needed all the correct equipment on them which they didn't have by default :P
<foobarry> wheels and steering?
<foobarry> pedals
<foobarry> my school didn't consider them proper bikes to ride to school on
<BigRedS> haha, I think I did mine on a purple raleigh bmx
<popey> davmor2: hm, maybe a few more then
<popey> yeah, i was in middle school, so probably same age
<zmoylan-pi> i don't mind cyclists on a pavement as long as they are going slow and been careful around pedestrians... but cyclists racing along the path risking hitting people and especially very young kids on that path need an attitude adjusting
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Two monday mornings, two very ill kids in a row :/ at least it was a different one this time
<zmoylan-pi> it was when i was sick as a kid that i discovered the hobbit been read by cribbins on jackanory... i was sick for ages... :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I love the bbc radio 4 play adaptation of the hobbit and lord of the rings
<zmoylan-pi> i have the bbc adaption of asimovs caves of steel downloaded to my phone. they do _great_ adaptions
<TwistedLucidity> Is that stuff available via iPlayer/website?
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: yes
<TwistedLucidity> Right, that's my free time ruined
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: LotR is only 13 hours it's not that long
<TwistedLucidity> Certainly something to listen to when dog walking and I've run out of podcasts
<TwistedLucidity> Or am driving to Germany
<popey> i was listening to an adaptation of Blade Runner off iplayer last night
<Dave> Was it some weird version set in a wasteland where the only people left on earth were too stupid to be allowed to leave?
<TwistedLucidity> I must be stupid, I can't find anything
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, now I found some
<zmoylan-pi> https://archive.org/details/IsaacAsimov-TheFoundationTrilogy
<diddledan> ubuntu.com down?!
<diddledan> RUN FOR THE HILLS! IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD!!!
<zmoylan-pi> running for the hills is a rookie mistake, you need to have your bunker prepared...
<directhex> running for the hills is the right choice in a tsunami. not a huge help in a zombie apocalypse
<popey> Yeah, there was a firewall issue apparently
<directhex> drop 0.0.0.0!
<diddledan> seems to be fixed again now
<foobarry> annoys me that dd returns a prompt straight away while the usb stick carries on flashing
<foobarry> when i get the prompt i wanna yank the usb stick
<foobarry> need to remember to type sync afterwards.
<diddledan> foobarry, yeah that seems to be recent behaviour
<diddledan> it used to be synchronous
<diddledan> I have no idea when the behaviour changed tho
<diddledan> oh America! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37469757
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: If all the other shoppers had been carrying fully automatic assault rifles, that would have never happened.
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity, exactly!
<TwistedLucidity> I've heard that some schools/districts in the USA are planning to allow teachers to conceal-carry guns.
<diddledan> that's a good plan
<foobarry> lol
<diddledan> of course the pupils need to have guns to protect themselves from rampaging teachers
<zmoylan-pi> so how long till the first teacher snaps and wipes out their class
<foobarry> if i carried a gun at work at least 5 people would have been shot
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: It's OK, they'll be trained in a similar way to the police. :-S
<zmoylan-pi> and to make things fair, pupils are only allowed revolvers and teachers are limited to belt fed weapons?
<foobarry> luckily i live in the UK and just throw stress toys at people instead
<diddledan> the only way to be sure that nobody uses a gun is to make sure everyone has access to a gun for easy use
<diddledan> foobarry, ow
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Or to follow the Chris Rock paradigm: ditch gun control, what you need is bullet control!
<diddledan> read an article just yesterday where a private investigator was challenged by a policeman with gun drawn just for sitting in his car
<TwistedLucidity> If every bullet cost US$5,000, you can be sure people would think about it first!
 * TwistedLucidity has edited the language down. Heavily.
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: I though the USA policy was "Shoot if black"?
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity, the officer was obviously badly trained
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity, if he had had proper training the PI would be dead
<zmoylan-pi> they'd just bring back the pistol sword... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol_sword#/media/File:Elgin_cutlass_pistol.jpg
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, wtf?!
<diddledan> that's a nutty gun
<zmoylan-pi> diddledan people can be very /creative/ when it comes to getting rid of people they don't like
<TwistedLucidity> Pow! Pow! Pow! Rats, out of bullets. Stabby! Stabby! Stabby!
<zmoylan-pi> diddledan it doesn't even reach a 5/10 on weird gun lists
<TwistedLucidity> Guns can run Linux too (thinking of that computer-aided sniper rifle thing)
<diddledan> it's cool from the technical perspective, that linux gun, but morally challenged in terms of it being a lethal weapon
<TwistedLucidity> All weapons are morally challenged. The problem with guns is the ease by which they offer lethality. More so with remote systems like drones.
<TwistedLucidity> Without training, and just like any other animal, we will seek to avoid confrontation.
<zmoylan-pi> some will seek to avoid confrontation, others on the other hand won't
<TwistedLucidity> There's always the psycho, nothing can be done
<TwistedLucidity> with them
<TwistedLucidity> If we as a species actually *liked* violence and death, soldiers etc wouldn't suffer PTSD.
<diddledan> the problem is the people deciding to create violence and death are usually the ones who are detached from it
<diddledan> i.e. governments
<diddledan> who cares about a load of squaddies getting killed as long as the government don't have to get involved
<TwistedLucidity> Which is why drones are all the craze. Then it's just a video game.
<TwistedLucidity> You use machinery to detach the soldiers from the atrocity as much as you can.
<diddledan> the leaked footage of some drone kills has had commentary from the controllers where they make it sound exactly like that
<diddledan> pew pew pew
<TwistedLucidity> Add in an authority figure giving them permission, genocide becomes easy.
<diddledan> then the hague gets involved and the soldiers use the "I was just following orders" defence
<zmoylan-pi> isn't it now illegal to follow illegal orders?
<diddledan> the problem with human behaviour is we're inherently conformist, so if everyone around you is doing something you'll likely follow-suit
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not :-P
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> life of brian quote: "you're all individual, you're all unique" .. "I'm not!"
<diddledan> love that movie
<zmoylan-pi> one of the best comedy moments on film ever... right after 'no one is to throw anything until i blow this whistle, even and i want to make this clear, even if they say jehovah'
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Yes it is, I am sure the firing squad will feel remorse.
<diddledan> was probably the first time I was aware of seeing full-frontal nudity of someone other than my family
<zmoylan-pi> plus of course the latin lesson... :-P
<foobarry> shakes fist at launchpad
<popey> uhoh
<davmor2> foobarry: there is an outage should be fixed soon
<diddledan> I think we need to petition to rename launchpad to lunchbox
<acheronuk> plenty of times I have typed lunchpad
<foobarry> installing elementary while trying to keep /home ended up dumping me to grub :(
<directhex> nicew
<foobarry> boot-repair commands were horrific
<TwistedLucidity> I broke my ownCloud install last night going to Ubuntu 16.04. Something has gone rather wrong with the php stuff
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> r
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-27
<diddledan> mernign
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday and happy Crush a Can Day! ð
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AB-ieB0sTg&list=PL-qQNIOiDEPHnQ8WFUJ77kreb6Ho9sKqu got you covered
<JamesTait> A bit of a stretch, davmor2. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: yeah but I don't hear you complaining
<davmor2> JamesTait: it was that or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIhSnaqou0I
<JamesTait> Oh yeah, I remember that one.
<davmor2> JamesTait: yes I just knew you would prefer the rock and roll lifestyle more ;)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> brobostigon: Morning dude
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<brobostigon> anyone recognise the following error when trying to run steam.?
<brobostigon> ERROR: ld.so: object '/home/ptaylor/.local/share/Steam/ubuntu12_32/gameoverlayrenderer.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded (wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32): ignored.
<diplo> Not steam but I recognise it trying to run 32bit in 64bit enviroment in some c++ programs we have here, no help though I'm afraid
<brobostigon> yes, that was my conclusion as well. but i dont know how to solve it.
<foobarry> is there an ubuntu12_64 dir?
<brobostigon> yes.
<foobarry> possibly an incorrect env setting somewhere?
<foobarry> there's a dirty hack you could try and move the 32bit one out of the way and copy the 64 bit one over...but should really get to the source of why it's trying the 32 bit lib
<brobostigon> i dont know, good question.
<foobarry> actually it's only a warning
<foobarry> not an error
<brobostigon> ah ok, well it does explain why the client runs, but games always fail to start showing that warning.
<foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/639308/some-steam-games-wont-startup-gameoverlayrenderer-so-error
<foobarry> ?
<TwistedLucidity> Stream is 32bit IIRC
<TwistedLucidity> *Steam
<brobostigon> ok, that didnt help, same warning persists, and nothing starts.
<foobarry> i saw a bug but it seems old
<foobarry> did something change?
<foobarry> search for newly changed files in steam folders?
<diplo> Talking of my said C++ program... got an odd one, any pointers as I appear very slow today
<TwistedLucidity> Got Steam on a 64bit here; gimme a mo'
<diplo> ping smtp.office365.com and it replies, use our email prog ( CLI ) to send an email via it, we get a temp dns error, hard code an ip to smtp.office365.com it works, any ideas ?
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: Do you also have "ubuntu12_64"?
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, you do.
<brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: yep.
<TwistedLucidity> Just took a look at /usr/bin/steam and I wonder if that's dropping a clanger? You could quickly hack that to echo out what it is trying to run (I can do the same if you want)
<brobostigon> dropping a clanger?
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: Breaking
<brobostigon> ah.
<TwistedLucidity> What is the result of uname -m? steam.sh uses that to determine bitness
<brobostigon> x86_64
<TwistedLucidity> Snap. Hrm...this is some other platform detection stuff
<TwistedLucidity> It's as if it's failing to recognise and just defaulting to ubuntu12_32
<TwistedLucidity> Have you tried running steam from the CLI?
<brobostigon> yes, thats how i am reading these problems from.
<brobostigon> is there a way to force it to use 64bit?
<TwistedLucidity> I get 32bit libtinfo.so warning, but it appears to be non-fatal
<TwistedLucidity> You could try copying "/home/<USERNAME>/.local/share/Steam/steam.sh" to "/home/<USERNAME>/.local/share/Steam/steam64.sh" and hacking on it I guess.
<TwistedLucidity> Seems somewhat brittle to me.
<TwistedLucidity> Looks like this bug: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3093
<TwistedLucidity> And it seems my steam package is out of date to boot. :-S
<TwistedLucidity> There's also some comments about the offical .deb being buggy
<brobostigon> lets read that bug.
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<TwistedLucidity> Did you use the deb from repo.steampowered.com? i.e. the offical one?
<TwistedLucidity> If so, this might be worth a punt: https://www.johanvanhelden.com/guide-fix-the-steam-update-notice-on-ubuntu-16-04/
<brobostigon> yes,
<TwistedLucidity> So did I. Wonder what accidental thing I've done to fix it? I don't have many PPAs, just KDE Backports and an aged nvidia driver.
<foobarry> came home from work yesterday just as kids finished watching lego movie as a treat. if anyone's seen it, you'll realise why my kids were totally pumped up bouncing off the walls
<foobarry> EVERYTHING IS AWESOME DO_DO_DO
<foobarry> totally hypes them up
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6lHm-stXdM
<TwistedLucidity> WHEN YOU'RE PART OF A TEAM!
<popey> TEAM
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nPVAh78n34
<foobarry> i just started LOLLING loud when moss got his ear spray out
<foobarry> inthe office
<foobarry> we had some "one team" mantra stuff going round here recently
<TwistedLucidity> "Engineering team wish to state that they think management team are a bunch of muppets."
<diddledan> lol
<TwistedLucidity> "There's no 'you' in team"
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: there is in "Comm-u-nity"
<TwistedLucidity> Sounds dreafully socialist. It'll never work.
<TwistedLucidity> :-P
<diddledan> damn those leftie nuts! :-p
<awilkins> MWARRRRRGGGGGGG  NODE JS DEVELOPERS MUST DIE
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> that sounds like you have experience
<awilkins> Just got my ongoing "deployment is broken" hell compounded by an install saying "Nuh-uh brah, we don't have version 3.x.x of that component, would you like to try version 4.1.0?"
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: U-buntu U-nionist U-nite
<awilkins> Version 4.1.0 was published *an hour ago*
<diddledan> awilkins, did you rely on a module that relies on leftpad perchance? :-p
<awilkins> Where did version 3.x.x go?????
<awilkins> diddledan, Whut, not that again?
<diddledan> no idea. I thought the whole leftpad debacle would have meant that npm not delete anything ever
<awilkins> No, this module doesn't depend on leftpad
<awilkins> THe version I've got isn't even 3.x.x?!?
<awilkins> It's 4.0.0
<diddledan> mayhaps your package.json is out of date to what it actually installed?
<awilkins> The melon-frickin package.json file says ^4.0.0
<diddledan> wah
<diddledan> my brian hurts
<TwistedLucidity> It's twisting your melon, man?
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity, better that than twisting his lucidity
<awilkins> This is the deployment on the server whining
<awilkins> although TBH, the list of valid install targets being "4.1.0, that's it brah, no 4.0.0" is somewhat annoying
<bittin> Debian admin at my workplace switched works yesterday, so i am the new Debian admin now :)
<diddledan> bittin, yey?
<awilkins> Ok, our local node cache has 9 versions of the component in question, including the one being asked for
<TwistedLucidity> Node - the anti-social version of Maven
<bittin> diddledan: hehe yay more work :P
<TwistedLucidity> Same pay, same hours, work smarter not harder!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: hey
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, hi
<Myrtti> stumbled on this today: https://www.servethehome.com/firefox-is-eating-your-ssd-here-is-how-to-fix-it/
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-28
<knightwi1e> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry_> morning
<foobarry> so the snowden film sucks?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday and happy Drink Beer Day! ð  ðº
<Azelphur> Wow, Lenovo are really going bad, first the Rootkit, then the whole AHCI thing, now I am hearing from a friend of mine, tried to upgrade his WiFi card in the laptop, and the BIOS is throwing an error stating "Unauthorized Wireless network card is plugged in. Power off and remove it"
<zmoylan-pi> yeah i've heard someone complaining about that.  is it common?
<BigRedS> and the keyboards really aren't all that any more, either. The nipple's basically the only reason to buy Lenovo these days
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: seems a few people have encountered it, apparently you can hack the card and change its PCI ID
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, they mentioned that they got some uber hacker to supply a bios update to get past it.  but they now have a niggling doubt about hacker supplied bios on laptop now :-)
<zmoylan-pi> just short one meeting in a dark carpark for full paranoia... :-)
<davmor2> Azelphur: depends uefi offers an option to build the keys based on the hardware. That might be a requirement for the windows8+ os so would throw up an issue if the hardware is changed
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: yea, my friend is looking at the same stuff
<Azelphur> davmor2: apparently it's because Lenovo have to get the FCC to validate the wifi card and antenna setup
<zmoylan-pi> they could offer the firmware updates for sale on horse shaped usb drives for quick installs... :-)
<Azelphur> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> i really must find and/or make some horsey shaped usb drives...
<ali1234> Azelphur: lenovo have locked wireless cards like that for ages
<ali1234> hp also do it
<ali1234> and others
<Azelphur> ali1234: seems like an odd practice, never bumped into it myself
<zmoylan-pi> havee you ever changed the included wifi card in a laptop?
<ali1234> so i bought a nexus 7 on ebay... stuck in boot loop
<ali1234> was sold as 16GB but the bootloader says it is 32GB
<ali1234> i think someone flashed the wrong bootloader on it
<zmoylan-pi> fixable?
<ali1234> dont know yet
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed...
<Azelphur> Been looking into the GPD Win, looks really interesting, $330 5.5" laptop essentially, http://bit.ly/2d7h8ok they have videos of it running all sorts of games (GTA 5 even) and the manufacturers have said it might support Linux ( http://bit.ly/2daiZ7Q ) wonder if it will actually work driver wise
<popey> looks fun
<m0nkey_> Uhh, doubt it'll run GTAV very well.
<Azelphur> m0nkey_: yea, it struggles, but it runs at a playable frame rate
<Azelphur> which is impressive for a 5" device
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-29
<knightwise> morning everyone
<Gargoyle> Morning, knightwise
<diplo> Morning all
<Gargoyle> Morning diplo (and everyone else - individual good mornings could get a bit tiresome! ;-)
<diplo> heh tbh it's been quite quiet here of late
<foobarry> yeah where did everyone go?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> foobarry: well if you will insist on not showering or wearing deodorant people will walk out of the room  ;)
<davmor2> foobarry: I assume a netsplit happened
<davmor2> morning all
<foobarry> a few days ago?
<foobarry> been quiet generally
<davmor2> foobarry: I blame popey
<foobarry> of course
<davmor2> foobarry: see he isn't even rising to the bait
<davmor2> foobarry: so you know it's all popey's fault
<foobarry> ppl have the window open. its freezing
<BigRedS> I've just opened the window here...
<popey> pissing down here
<foobarry> oh yeah, here too now
<foobarry> v heavy
<foobarry> blanket being deployed
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Coffee Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: just remember you picked the day you have no one but yourself to blame for this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POv-3yIPSWc
<davmor2> JamesTait: now what ear bleach you gonna use to get rid of it :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, I was tempted to go for https://youtu.be/XOzs1FehYOA but I think this will actually do: https://youtu.be/FaaoTvEdKtA
<davmor2> JamesTait: is there anybody in there
<JamesTait> Nope.
<JamesTait> Nobody here but us chickens.
<davmor2> JamesTait: you don't need to worry about the song I played at all then :P
<Gargoyle> Is it normal for things in my homedir to be owned by root?
<popey> Gargoyle: it is if you ran "sudo" in front of random things, yeah
<Gargoyle> Specifically at the moment, ~/.dbus
<directhex> root owns your session bus? ._.
<popey> Gargoyle: i would change the ownership of that file and logout/in
<popey> and also look for other files owned by root
<Gargoyle> I've changed it's permission. What does it do?
#ubuntu-uk 2016-09-30
<diplo> Morning all
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Morning :)
<CoderEurope> Mornin you guys.
<CoderEurope> Hopefully - I should have an UbuntuMate iMac soon, but maybe not : https://redd.it/554wg6
<CoderEurope> no-one about.
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Morning.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> JonTheNiceGuy[m], oh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> JonTheNiceGuy[m], hey
<SebthreeBQM10HD> JonTheNiceGuy[m], acsaully I had emailed you :d  to do with my event, and the creative commons prescence
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Hi :D
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Oh cool :D
 * JonTheNiceGuy[m] waves
<SebthreeBQM10HD> JonTheNiceGuy[m], assuming your the same guy which I expect so
<SebthreeBQM10HD> JonTheNiceGuy[m], so is there a better way to search cchits for  music?  for example if I don't want love songs, how do I get up the  other music easier ?
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Ugh, that we don't have.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ok so I Really got to go throught the charts then
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> One tic, moving a server... Brb
<SebthreeBQM10HD> like I was doing before
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ok
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Yehr, sorry about that, we never got to the point of tagging tracks with genres...
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> It just never quite took off in that way
<SebthreeBQM10HD> JonTheNiceGuy[m], that's ok
<SebthreeBQM10HD> JonTheNiceGuy[m], I still have a nice base site :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> for finding music t
<SebthreeBQM10HD> that I want
<SebthreeBQM10HD> better than http://libre.fm for that
 * SebthreeBQM10HD is a bit disapointed with Linux Voice team 
<SebthreeBQM10HD> JonTheNiceGuy[m], would you have any suggestions foro ther content by the way, specfically open movies, and graphics ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> CC
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brobostigon, morning girl
<brobostigon> morning green amorphous blob.
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> SebthreeBQM10HD: no, not really. Aside from the various blender projects?
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning JonTheNiceGuy[m]
<SebthreeBQM10HD> JonTheNiceGuy[m], bender projects right
<SebthreeBQM10HD> JonTheNiceGuy[m], they have like a demo show case of a few things, elephants dream and such
<SebthreeBQM10HD> JonTheNiceGuy[m], but yeah just any animation really or open movie, as long as family friendly, which not all are I been looking at net
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and around 20 minutes at most in lengeth ideally
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy International Podcast Day! ð
<diddledan> JamesTait: http://ubuntupodcast.org/
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Happy Friday JamesTait!
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Just out of interest, I'm trying to figure out how to request a package from Upstream Debian get updated to a later version (ntopng)
<JamesTait> JonTheNiceGuy[m]! Long time no see! Happy Friday!
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Indeed JamesTait
<JamesTait> JonTheNiceGuy[m], I'd have thought that should happen each release with the sync from Debian.
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> It's currently on 2.2+dfsg1-2+b3 in both the Ubuntu (16.04/10) releases. ntopng is currently at 2.4 at source.
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Debian Sid has it at 2.2 as well.
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> So, I'm wondering whether it's just where Debian haven't had the resources to bring it up to speed, or if there's something more fundamental going on in the ntopng source.
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> I've noticed that ntop.org are only making x64 packages now, and I don't know whether that has any baring on things.
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> s/baring/bearing
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Should I be filing a bug on the Launchpad ntopng package, against Debian's bug tracker, or... just cope until someone does something about it? :)
<diplo> Anyone recommend a windows screen recording software ( free? )
<popey> never tried, i know camstudio is one people often recommend
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> diplo: OpenBroadcastSoftware (sometimes referred to as OBS) works well, and is cross platform too.
<popey> yeah, OBS is quite uh.. comprehensive
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> :D It is at that :D
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> But, I think it's also FaiF, which is nice :)
<Seeker`> OBS++
<popey> true
<popey> although he's on windows, so....
<diplo> Will take a look thanks
<diplo> Windows on other machine, not on this one :)
<Azelphur> More interesting stuff on the GPD Win, seems someone got hold of a prototype and got Linux running on it to some degree, https://www.reddit.com/r/gpdwin/comments/50hpif/evildragon_installs_linux_on_the_gpd_win/
<daftykins> !info irssi trusty
<lubotu3> irssi (source: irssi): terminal based IRC client. In component main, is optional. Version 0.8.15-5ubuntu3 (trusty), package size 852 kB, installed size 2388 kB
<daftykins> how would i know whether that's patched for the issues fixed in 0.8.20? o0
<daftykins> also hi all! i'm home :>
<daftykins> lo
<diddledan> o/
<daftykins> diddledan: how do sir? i am home at last!
<diddledan> yey
<diddledan> I be ok ta
<daftykins> vewy gewd
<daftykins> https://training.linuxfoundation.org/linux-courses/system-administration-training/essentials-of-system-administration - i see this course is discounted and gives a free chromebook if you sign up before midnight, PST
<diddledan> how was your horrorshow? horrorday.. holiday
<daftykins> not really worried about that as it's some little baytrail celeron toy i'm sure, but i've wanted a sys admin course to try :>
<daftykins> pretty good thanks! although 10 flights in 3 weeks, oy
<diddledan> dang
<daftykins> https://youtu.be/GBU_y1RcQ3c - these falls look like Guinness!
<daftykins> (waterfalls i saw in Upper Michigan)
<daftykins> i'll bore you all with pics once i get some time to sort them
<diddledan> doesn't say free chromebook that I can see. maybe I'm being descrimised?
<diddledan> descriminised
<MartijnVdS> decriminalized?
<daftykins> nah not on the page but it is
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: decriminalated?
<diddledan> decriminated
<diddledan> demilitarised
<diddledan> http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/09/firefox-ready-to-block-certificate-authority-that-threatened-web-security/
<daftykins> oh looks like that one course i'm interested in isn't included in the deal, hah
<diddledan> awww :-(
<daftykins> yeah the applicable ones are $2,700 oy vey - https://training.linuxfoundation.org/get-a-free-chromebook
<daftykins> turns out irssi 0.8.15 didn't get affected by those recent woes - https://irssi.org/security/irssi_sa_2016.txt
<daftykins> christel: you had me all concerned i'd have to lift a finger :P
<SebthreeBQM10HD> s
<daftykins> h
<diddledan> i
<SebthreeBQM10HD> which is better in a flyer
<diddledan> orange
<SebthreeBQM10HD> FREE entry or
<SebthreeBQM10HD> FREE Entry
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or something else?
<diddledan> "attempting to pay results sin your ass being whooped"
<diddledan> s/sin/in/
<diddledan> I hate when people insist on paying
<SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan nah this event is free, and it has to be really, since what it is, and what it's for
<diddledan> exactly, hence the need to be beating-on people that try to pay
<SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledannah people who want to donate money to the event, that's  fine and good actually
<SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan altough what it's for would pay what's left of the venue cost, pay me back, but there are other htings that will cost abit of money for an event
<christel> daftykins: haha yeah, only .17 and newer <3
<christel> what are we paying diddledan for
<daftykins> he makes a terrible tea boy
<christel> daftykins: haha
 * zmoylan-pi makes a big mug of tea to warm up after walk to shops
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> greetings, sir
<daftykins> i was on a flight with two Michigan sisters headed your way, recently
<zmoylan-pi> proper lyons tea from the company thay gave us leo... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LEO_(computer)
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> daftykins: when you tickle your cat do you say you're daftickling?
<diddledan> (and I've not had a drop of alcohol!)
<daftykins> :>
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-01
<daftykins> diddledan: heh now it's cooling down, my nvidia 1070's fan doesn't even spin under game load O_O
<daftykins> now that's efficiency
<diddledan_> coffee or bed?
<diddledan_> bed or coffee?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<Zeturo> I'm trying to find out if it's possible to make a DVB card accessable to a LXC container. My Google-Fu is failing me, can anyone point me in the direction of help / advice?
 * penguin42 assumes it's just a matter of a particular /dev entry
<daftykins> mmm device passthrough which maybe would require VT-io? dunno
<penguin42> no, VT-io is for virtualisation stuff - I don't think lxc uses that normally
<daftykins> ah fair enough
<daftykins> that's true i suppose it talks to the host kernel just fine
<Zeturo> There's a whole /dev/dvb folder; I can see how to make USB and storage devices map through into the LXC container. But not for DVB card (create a symlink didn't work - that was the limit of my knowledge).
<daftykins> i'd heard there are multiple entries usuallly
<daftykins> maybe check out some of the tvheadend / mythtv like channels
<Zeturo> Within /dev/dvb/, there's a folder per adapter, and per adapter there's a bunch of devices.
<Zeturo> Been looking at the tvheadend stuff, but no-one seems made enough to want to place it into a container. Good call on the MythTV, hadn't thought to look there.
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-02
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<newuser_> hello anyone here?
<daftykins> more driveby hi!
 * zmoylan-pi stands at the entrance with a large wet fish to greet the next one...
 * diddledan_ offers daftykins an ass burger (gotta love a good bit of rumpsteak)
 * zmoylan-pi hands a 60s batman style *POW* sign to daftykins 
<diddledan_> POW
<diddledan_> *thwack*
<diddledan_> *ban*
<diddledan_> err
<diddledan_> *bam*
<diddledan_> *sock*
<zmoylan-pi> *bampf*
<diddledan_> *kapow*
 * penguin42 covers zmoylan-pi's fish in breadcrumbs
 * daftykins walks in on a ruckus and pulls the school teacher face >8|
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> no fur
<diddledan_> we don't need no steenkin teachers
 * zmoylan-pi pushes dead fish into teachers satchel nonchantly out of their sight...
 * diddledan_ whistles nonchalantly
<zmoylan-pi> oddly, not the first time i've done that... :-P
 * daftykins goes through his holiday post
<diddledan_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoiu8_K-eZg
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> i played Deus Ex: Mankind Divided until 6am last night - oops.
<zmoylan-pi> 6am is technically this morning... :-)
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: 100 lines!
<zmoylan-pi> for me the overnight didn't care how long i played it game was tau ceti... played that a few times overnight
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> gotta wonder how things are going;
<daftykins> gas meter card: "Guernsey Gas Limited, Douglas, Isle of Man"
<daftykins> i think that's the wrong trousers, Gromit
<diddledan_> wha?
<diddledan_> how does that work?
<zmoylan-pi> they send gas by balloons
<daftykins> seems they've centered their whole CS over there now
<daftykins> diddledan_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6SMGrIaals XD
<diddledan_> daftykins: I wasn't aware I was on film :-p
<daftykins> ;D
<JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Remember gentlefolk, hacktoberfest has started. 4 pull requests against any github projects and get a t-shirt and stickers :) They're also looking for projects to tag bugs with hacktoberfest to get people looking at them! https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com/
<zmoylan-pi> and remember there's a nice reward to first person to hack trumps tax records... :-P
<aobzhirov> sasl show
<daftykins> mmhmm
<zmoylan-pi> open the pod bay doors please hal...
<diddledan_> let there be light
<diddledan_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9-Niv2Xh7w
<daftykins> Aziz, light
<zmoylan-pi> mul ti pass
<diddledan_> gotta love a drop of leeloo
<diddledan_> truly a perfect being!
<daftykins> not in my eyes XD
<zmoylan-pi> where did he learn to negotiate like that?
<daftykins> 'murica
<diddledan_> lol
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-25
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<diplo> Hows things brobostigon ? Any more luck with jobs hunting
<brobostigon> average really and you? yes still beavering away.
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed you find something you enjoy AND pays well...
<brobostigon> yes, :)
<brobostigon> and if all else fails, work for myself if no one else will have me.
<diplo> Sounds like the best option, think I'd prefer that too :)
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> now brobostigon just has to convice a lot of people to hire them... :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> Good morning
<diddledan> ello popey, poper, popester, pope-the-dope
<zmoylan-pi> you forgot pope-on-a-rope
<diddledan> haha, I like
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.ship-of-fools.com/gadgets/pope/media/soap_on_a_rope.jpg
<diddledan> dope-a-pope
<diddledan> nice. centuries-old debt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfSIC8jwbQs (tom scott)
<diddledan> and also the nostalgia nerd on why we use ctrl+alt+del: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3afLNAE4_U
<daftykins> i watched his piece on the history of Cyrix last night, that was quite interesting
<daftykins> diddledan: are you upgrading your OS so it can get High? (macOS 10.13 High Sierra)
<diddledan> my mac is already upgraded :-)
<daftykins> *gasp*
<daftykins> anyone given Star Trek Discovery a whirl? i've got episode 1 on
<diddledan> was gonna do that in a mo, yeah
<m0nkey_> diddledan: you already upgraded? You iTart.
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> interesting title sequence on startrek
<m0nkey_> Suppose I should upgrade my Mac and check stuff still works with FreeNAS
<daftykins> that's practical
<m0nkey_> I'm sure there will be a hoard of people in #freenas with questions this evening.
<daftykins> heh :D
<daftykins> if Apple's CDN weren't on dial-up, this download is still chugging along
<daftykins> (i have a VM of macOS)
<daftykins> in true Apple fashion the progress timer goes up
<daftykins> my my, already a keychain theft bug
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> is that something you found or something someone posted on the intarwebs?
<daftykins> lemme find the link
<diddledan> this one: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/25/macos-high-sierra-security-vulnerability/
<daftykins> and nah i'm no security type XD
<daftykins> yeah that'll do it
<diddledan> "we raided X's apartment and got all his notes. everything is in chinese, but we got his harddrives *pulls out power supply*"
<diddledan> since when is a psu classed as "hard drives"
<daftykins> sounds like TV, what was that on? CSI? :D
<diddledan> "limitless" on netflix
<daftykins> apparently realism was their limit ;D
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> look what my little girl did - https://i.imgur.com/e6bCLvQ.jpg
<daftykins> when they met... it was moyder
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> morda!?!
<daftykins> o0
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-26
<diddledan> hmm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S97TCpuBvnc the w3c doesn't actually exist?
<daftykins> D:
<ali1234> it's the hot new thing in project management
<ali1234> when the org does something good, it's because of the org
<ali1234> but when the org does something bad, it doesn't really exist and the bad thing is just down to whichever individuals did it
<diplo> Morning all
<ali1234> i just sold something on ebay \o/
<diplo> Well done, wait for the issue after the buyer receives it :)
<diplo> Do you sleep ali1234 ? :)
<ali1234> i was just thinking of going to bed actually, but now i have to post the item
<diplo> heh, service with a smile
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> i wonder if i should put this through my invoicing system
<ali1234> its only 99p
<ali1234> but otoh i have another 800 to sell
<diplo> Might as well start as you mean to go on ali1234 - just shy of 800
<ali1234> ebay dont seem to have charged me a final value fee
<ali1234> i dont understand this at all
<MooDoo> howdy all
<diplo> Hey MooDoo, hows things? and yeah I stopped using ebay as it a pita
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah i'm good thanks
<MooDoo> bit tired, but ok :D your good self?
<diplo> Sorry work got in the way, pretty much the same. Cycled to work today ( not that far ) but I was trying to race a bus... probably over did it :D
<MooDoo> hehe yeah work....i'm coding some php
<MooDoo> omg FACEBOOK IS DOWN EVERYONE PANIC ;)
<zmoylan-pi> they'll be flooding onto irc soon \o/
<zmoylan-pi> ascii art baby pics everywhere...
<MooDoo> lol
<ali1234> also pokemon go
<zmoylan-pi> they can all sign up for the google ar game while they wait for that to come back... if they aren't already playing it...
<m0nkey_> Facebook can go suck a lemon
<diddledan> oh, adobe: https://twitter.com/jupenur/status/911286403434246144/photo/1
<diddledan> hah, they only made the key 3 days before they revoked it on the 22nd
<diddledan> 4 days*
<diddledan> c.f. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKWwdPUUMAE_k0P.jpg
<m0nkey_> Why doesn't this surpise me anymore?
<diddledan> shooty robots: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3KEoMzNz8eYnwBC34RaKCQ
<zmoylan-pi> i like my robots stabby like the t-1000 it's the personal touch that shows it cares... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> clamps are an acceptable substitute... :-P
<wholeccode> hello any halp with router configs ?https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/04/the-ars-guide-to-building-a-linux-router-from-scratch/
<ali1234> popey: can you remember the name of the irc channel for your minecraft server, before it was bitfolk-minecraft?
<popey> was it ubuntu-uk-minecraft?
<ali1234> yes, i literally just found the log i was looking for :)
<popey> \o/
<popey> wierd, I was talking about that minecraft server in the pub last night!
<popey> calculon, clamps and andolyne (iirc)
<daftykins> such Futurama!
<ali1234> hivemind :)
<ali1234> microsoft just released a big update for the C++ version (aka bedrock)
<ali1234> now has cross play for ... everything except windows version before 10, mac and linux
<ali1234> so it's a hot topic at the moment
<diddledan> ali1234: everything *except* those three?
<ali1234> yes
<diddledan> so it only supports crossplay on windows10+
<ali1234> bedrock now has cross play for win 10, android, xbox, and soon nintendo switch
<diddledan> mac and linux are stfu who cares?!
<ali1234> oh and iOS
<ali1234> so win10, mobiles, and consoles
<ali1234> also it has microtransactions
<diddledan> gah
<ali1234> an you have to buy it separately on every platform
<ali1234> you get the win10 version free if you own the java version though
<diddledan> for me a lot of the appeal of minecraft as mojang made it was that it was available for linux
<ali1234> of course
<diddledan> I look at all this movement and wish for mojang not to have sold out
<ali1234> it doesn't really matter
<ali1234> most of the development on java version is in mods now
<ali1234> and bedrock doesn't have mods at all yet
<ali1234> the java code is almost completely deobfuscated at this point, it would probably be better if mojang abandoned it, because modders would then have a fixed target
<ali1234> minecraft client and server would be an interesting project for someone to snap. probably not redistributable though, you'd have to use a launcher or something i guess
<ali1234> also forge/gradle/eclipse would be an interesting target for umake, if that's still a thing
<ali1234> hmm... "snapcraft" is already an overloaded term in minecraft world...
<diddledan> ali1234: looks like there's `minecraft-server-jdstrand` and `minecraft-nsg` available
<ali1234> cool
<diddledan> there's also `cuberite` which claims to be a "performant open source minecraft server written in C++"
<ali1234> looks interesting
<ali1234> i wonder how they can implement modding without changing the client
<ali1234> i guess you can't make new block types etc
<diddledan> twitter just invented an amazing new feature: https://blog.twitter.com/official/en_us/topics/product/2017/Giving-you-more-characters-to-express-yourself.html
<diddledan> who fancies a bit of "how do ya do?"?
<diddledan> I'll start: "how do you do?"
<diddledan> I think I might be in trouble with the ops if I keep that behaviour up
<diddledan> I could make it even worse by switching up to "how's ya father?"...
<diddledan> soo, iOS11 is out for less than a week, and https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208143
<diddledan> https://www.androidcentral.com/apple-wins-two-patent-rulings-against-qualcomm <-- neither of which are related to patents
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> diddledan: the performance of the A11 chip is quite impressive, kinda shows how Qualcomm and Samsung are corrupt blighters not innovating enough
<daftykins> just slowly bumping values and cashing in
<diddledan> mmhmm
<daftykins> aaah too much wine and xboxing with a mate
<daftykins> well that was a bit embarassing, a while back i ignored skype wanting to merge my account with my MS account, so i left it with a basic password that i must've used years ago when last.fm got hacked
<daftykins> so just earlier everyone got a spam baidu link from my account D: all resolved now though
<daftykins> accounts merged and 2FA in place, still a bit worrying
<diddledan> ergh
<diddledan> it's annoying when you forget about old accounts
<daftykins> ikr :(
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-27
<talktalk2017> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/09/25/ubucon-europe-2017/
<daftykins> ?
<daftykins> so few people in the pic XD
<daftykins> time for le sleep
<ali1234> guys who remembers bamboozle?
<ali1234> i just found two webservices: one that provides a database of trivia questions and one that generates puns
<ali1234> so that's everything you need to generate infinite bamboozles every day
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMat1> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> howdy :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> not bad, and you?
<MooDoo> yeah not ba thanks, just reinstalling arty
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperMatt> 17.10 is sublime
<SuperMatt> which means, it's lower than a citrus fruit
<MooDoo> funny just downloaded sublime text ;)
<SuperMatt> VS Code is the best
<SuperMatt> This is what it does well, I get a lovely little display of what variables to pass to a function, when writing in go
<SuperMatt> https://i.imgur.com/sjDD6jZ.png
<diplo> sublime does that to I believe
<SuperMatt> oh really? I had never seen it
<SuperMatt> Well I'm sold on Code now
<SuperMatt> no turning back
<MooDoo> I've never seen it as I only code in php using sublime
<diplo> Works with php too I think
<SuperMatt> Does it require a plugin?
<diplo> I rarely have those sort of things enabled
<MooDoo> not brilliant at it, but everything I've created workd lol
<diplo> I'll check code in a bit SuperMatt
<foobarry> sublime is low hanging fruit?
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/danhgilmore/status/913011761879617538
<zmoylan-pi> i think the first clue is he's putins mate
<diddledan> expensive ear adornments are more available: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/27/airpods-shipping-estimates-3-to-5-business-days/
<zmoylan-pi> i still think they look weird
<diddledan> I'm gonna go get a bit of crumpet
<diddledan> I love me a good bit of crumpet
<zmoylan-pi> tried them when i was a kid, wasn't mad on them...
<zmoylan-pi> now a coffee slice on the other hand...
<diddledan> you need to put real butter on them
<zmoylan-pi> this is ireland. we only have real butter. ask the germans. :-) https://www.statista.com/statistics/429504/most-popular-brands-of-butter-germany/
<zmoylan-pi> they've banned it in one american state so they're now smuggling it in
<diddledan> kerrygold is tasty!
<diddledan> I get either kerrygold or president
<zmoylan-pi> 12m germans can't be wrong :-P
<diddledan> BT customers like moaning: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41412562
<MooDoo> afternoon
<diddledan> allo
<brobostigon> hi
<MooDoo> :D
<gustav> ~
<MooDoo> yo yo yo
<astondamn> popey, MooDoo https://thepasteb.in/p/P1hvEB5oMzxCl
<MooDoo> :)
<diddledan> loco-enthusiasts?
<popey> It's quite irritating to have someone join, paste a link and leave
<zmoylan-pi> drive by linkers...
<zmoylan-pi> i never click on them
<popey> it's the same person every time
<zmoylan-pi> when i see kiwiirc... it's -3
<daftykins> different IP each time? if not, ban it
<zmoylan-pi> someone needs to send moodoo a rasp-pi for persistence :-)
<diddledan> :-)
<zmoylan-pi> we should start a service pizza with a pi :-)
<diddledan> I've been playing with QT
<diddledan> built a mini app for a raspberry pi
<diddledan> it does very little! :-p
<zmoylan-pi> qt?
<diddledan> https://qt.io
<zmoylan-pi> ah
<diddledan> the ui library thingy
<diddledan> it does a lot of other stuff too
<diddledan> KDE is built on it
<zmoylan-pi> thats why gnome exists :-)
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> mmmm Blade Runner
<zmoylan-pi> original?
<daftykins> yep, well, 'Final Cut'
<daftykins> i saw the 4K blurry in HMV today for Â£20
<zmoylan-pi> final final this time pinky swear final? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> my first dvd... well that and jaws for a #20 shekels for 2 bargain
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-28
<daftykins> haha :>
<zmoylan-pi> on my super deluxe tesco wharfdale region 0 dvd player...
<daftykins> wow a wharfedale eh
<zmoylan-pi> no expense spared
<daftykins> cor this Firefox Quantum is fast
<zmoylan-pi> i've read that
 * zmoylan-pi sticks with vivaldi
<daftykins> any particular reason, or just fond of underdogs?
<zmoylan-pi> deffo a fan of no#2. as casanundra the dwarf said, no#2 tries harder :-)
<zmoylan-pi> firefox seems intent on butchering the ui i used to like, chrome is creepy google
<zmoylan-pi> when i try chromium i just wonder how much google is left in it
<zmoylan-pi> and i used to love opera back in the day
<daftykins> not found any issues with FF myself over the moons
<diddledan> my first DVD was "sphere"
<diddledan> because it came with the DVD drive IIRC
<daftykins> mine was Enemy of the State
<zmoylan-pi> never seen either
<daftykins> i'd just gotten the creative labs 6x drive, Dxr2 decoder card ... and the Pentium 1 wasn't fast enough to play it.
<zmoylan-pi> you think that's bad. a mate order a region dvd from usa.  he spent 6 months of having card refused as he was not america, address refused as he was not american so he arranged an american mate to order, pack and deliver it
<zmoylan-pi> every step of the way it failed for the most stupid of reasons. till finally it was on it's way.  it was going to arrive the next day.
<daftykins> and it didn't have Irish subs?
 * daftykins ducks
<zmoylan-pi> and someone broke in and stole his dvd player with region switching ability and giant ass tv....
<daftykins> !!!
<zmoylan-pi> he asks me if i can play it... i asked him to nick the bosses ultraportable tablet jobbie. had a dvd player... you could change the region 3 times... we changed it twice that day :-)
<daftykins> heh yeah won't have had the disk space for a rip back then, were it even possible!
<daftykins> whether DVD Jon had been bored yet or not...
<zmoylan-pi> it was... but it needed 5gb of space free to rip it... but i had no region 1 dvd player that would read it
<zmoylan-pi> i was ripping a lot of dvds at work at the time... at night
<zmoylan-pi> there was great chinese vcd copy software that worked fine with a bit of adjustment
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> Creating snapcraft-temptedly-defunct-ashlee
<diddledan> I love those names
<daftykins> ceiling cat loves snapcraft
<daftykins> oh i have to sleep, the window guy is coming back at 7am ;_;
<diddledan> :-o
<daftykins> but maybe i'll have finished windows!
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> that's crazy oily
<daftykins> yee it's quite mean
<daftykins> and the window is in my bedroom so i can't even slink off!
<zmoylan-pi> you can do a sharon stone moment :-P
<diddledan> you need to open the door in your sexy neglige
<daftykins> instead i'm lying in bed and Mischief is cleaning her... rear on the top of the sheets perhaps
<daftykins> maybe with a few dead mice draped around for lulz
<daftykins> g'night team \o
<MooDoo> howdy all
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> Good morning
<MooDoo> morning diplo SuperMatt
<diplo> Nearly Friday! How are you both ?
<MooDoo> diplo: it's annoying how you can come into work excited about the day ahead, read your emails and then be in a total funk :D
<diplo> I want to graph data flow on 3 x Draytek Routers, any of you guys recommend anything ?
<diplo> I don't think I ever come to work excited to be honest anymore
<diplo> But I see your point
<MooDoo> https://www.draytek.co.uk/archive/kb_vigor_dataflowmonitor.html  this help diplo ?
<diplo> yeah I use that already, but more I want to collate it somewhere - use SNMP most likely - we monitor the routers already, but want to grab the info remotely to see peaks etc
<diplo> opennms looks a bit heavy
<MooDoo> nagios? spiceworks?
<diplo> We use Nagios ( well I do, not sure anyone else has ever worked on it ) - just looked like a complete PITA, use solarwinds at a previous job, not after a long term solution really but I guess I'll give them all a try
<SuperMatt> Monitor nothing! Build for failure
<diplo> heh, we've been like that for the last 25 years
<diplo> I'm trying to change the company, they're all very old staff and change is hard
<MooDoo> diplo: sounds familiar
<diplo> Really need to find a job elsewhere, but generally it's easy enough, just the frustration mounts at times
<MooDoo> diplo: you sound like me mate lol.....
<diplo> heh, my problem I don't do change very often, last job was 13 years, one previous to that was 6, this ones now at 7 :)
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah 5 years is my max for the last 4 jobs lol
<MooDoo> diplo: ever thought about starting something yourself?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> MooDoo: I have lots, my biggest issue is billing people, I suck... I find it hard enough where I am now, I think we're overcharging them :D
<diplo> I have a few customers outside work, and sure I could get loads more, they basically pay me what they think I'm worth, works for me
<diplo> A friend of mine has also suggested some work, just trying to talk him into it.
<diplo> SAP upgrades, he'd do the SAP stuff, I'd do everything else. 50k for a weekends work
<MooDoo> diplo: sweet, i've been thinking about doing linux stuff myself, but I'm not brave enough lol
<diplo> This would be both linux and windows, I guess the aim is to start without leaving your current job, pick up clientelle until your at a level it needs to be full time
<diplo> Enough work to do full time ?
<diplo> Can come work for us and sort our company out if you like, could do with someone in the nott office to bang heads :d
<MooDoo> diplo: i'd end up killing someone, i'm gobby and loud lol
<MooDoo> i'm also tempted to code a web application something for dentists or something like that....
<MooDoo> full server with os and application to be installed onsite.....something like that any way
<diplo> Problem with that is it would have to be passing lots of checks for data ?
<diplo> But sounds like a money making exercise :)
<diplo> From what I've seen of their software, it sucks
<MooDoo> just in my thoughts at the moment.
<MooDoo> brb
<diplo> Worth a thought, 10 years ago I was going to write something for takeaways to order online... mates said it was a stupid idea, no we have justeat and a multitude of others :(
<daftykins> heh, doh!
<daftykins> even the rock has gotten on the bandwagon with food.gg - i see folks with tablets on behind the counter awaiting the orders coming in
<diplo> heh, defo the future! although I do hate people being on their phones etc all the time. I ban it when I'm out :)
<daftykins> as you should, there's one particular mate and his wife in our group that are both screen watchers
<diplo> yeah, we have the same. Sucks really that it's gotten like this
<daftykins> if i knew them better i'd definitely say something
<diplo> hah, that never stops me :P
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> the funny part is that i sometimes think, well if one guy wasn't checking his phone he'd not see me asking where they are!
<diplo> :)
<daftykins> but yep, lessons for all to rediscover how to be 'present' are definitely tempting
<zmoylan-pi> isn't there a thing were everyone puts their phone face down on the table and first one to flip it pays penalty?
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEkCI7Og9bk
<diplo> zmoylan-pi: What I've seen before is sticking it in a pile and the first one to get their phone pays for the meal
<diddledan> isn't there a rule about going home with the person whose phone you pick up?
<diddledan> grr. what's wrong with mir on my raspi?!
<diddledan> Sep 26 20:32:07 localhost mir-kiosk.mir-kiosk[1138]: /snap/mir-kiosk/35/bin/run-miral: line 68:  1639 Floating point exception${SNAP}/usr/bin/${bin_to_run} --vt 1 --arw-file --file /run/mir_socket
<diplo> Can't say I know much about ( read nothing ) about MIR
<diddledan> me either :-p
<foobarry> how does this wifiextender work? https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/cre/NETGEAR-EX2700-100UKS-WiFi-Range-Extender-Wi-Fi-Booster/B00NIUHAG6
<daftykins> double hop, don't touch it!
<daftykins> a wired or wifi device has to send packets to it, which are then sent again to your main router - so it's a joke
<foobarry> my sister hasa dead zone in her house
<daftykins> i'd either: 1) cable and put an access point / wired socket on the end 2) try out powerline adapters (depending on the electrical setup in the property)
<foobarry> think she tried 2)
<daftykins> hrmm
<foobarry> access point is double hop but wired link is more reliable i guess
<daftykins> yeah it's totally moot when you have a proper cable between, a guy with a big house (technically two houses) i work for, i have a 6 AP setup going on
<foobarry> which AP are you using?
<daftykins> we've got quite an old setup there, as the place was kitted out from 2010... let's have a look what i'd pick today - is a hardwire run practical there?
<daftykins> super low end 2.4GHz only - https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-WA901ND-Wireless-Access-Point/dp/B013HCO332/ or dual band and -ac: https://www.amazon.co.uk/NETGEAR-WAC104-100UKS-WAC104-Business-Wireless/dp/B01LWUJU8H/
<daftykins> you might want to dig further and find something moddable with an open firmware though, not sure
<foobarry> thx
<daftykins> np ^_^
<daftykins> anyone had any exposure to older ADSL2 Draytek Vigor routers? curious whether it's worth trusting their VPN features
<zmoylan-pi> older... vpn... not words to enspire trust? :-)
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> and theirs is on an outdated firmware too XD only a small office but so many things for me to tackle
<zmoylan-pi> on these occasions i am reminded of the wise words in ronin... if there is any doubt there is no doubt :-)
<daftykins> :D
 * zmoylan-pi makes note to watch great film again... 
 * zmoylan-pi currently is watching darmok of tng... great episode
<diddledan> 21st of September: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERoo4_xX478
<diddledan> at least we didn't blow up the planet
<daftykins> well, today
<daftykins> er, well you know - then :P
<diddledan> youtube is annoying me with adverts for converse where miley cyrus is pretending to be a journalist/interviewer
<diddledan> the problem is she's interviewing people who just wanted exposure
<diddledan> it's painful
<ali1234> haha so the alert turned out to be just regular evangelical christian broadcasting the same thing they broadcast every day?
<zmoylan-pi> they're adverts.... pitched at people who watch adverts... you'd need to be some flippin eejit to like them
<daftykins> diddledan: no adblocker? o0
<zmoylan-pi> whenever i see other peoples browsers i'm reminded of tv in idiocracy... http://www.bontheball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/idiocracy-ow-my-balls.jpg
<diddledan> I love Ow! My Balls!
<zmoylan-pi> they never bettered you've been framed
<zmoylan-pi> well except for the japanese game show endurance but there the pain was often mental
<daftykins> as a viewer or contestant?
<zmoylan-pi> i mean when you saw what they did to the contestants it made you realise why it took to late 70s to get that soldier to give up...
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEOz7gaFfmU
<daftykins> :S
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-29
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> diddledan: have you created a snap that needs a web server yet ?
<tomred> "Can't locate object method "countries_for_form" via package
<tomred> Sorry wrong channel
<Seeker`> have you tried down the back of the sofa?
<zmoylan-pi> i'm surprised more databases don't fall back to searching there
<zmoylan-pi> now i want you to sit down and breath deeply before clicking the link... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/09/29/commodore-64-coming-back-c64-mini-released-next-year/
<diddledan> erhmagherd
<diddledan> c64?!
<ali1234> meh
<ali1234> someone made a FPGA board in pi zero form factor that can emulate an amiga in hardware
<ali1234> https://hackaday.io/project/13048-flea-ohm-fpga-project
<ali1234> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fleafpga-ohm-fpga-experimenter-board-arduino#/
<diddledan> I wonder how "turned-off" the military bits are.. as in could they be turned back on by a hacker? https://hackaday.com/2017/09/28/military-satellite-goes-civilian/
<zmoylan-pi> might have been so secret we can initiate self destruct in case we ever saw a russian shuttle pull up along side in case type destroy important parts thing
<diddledan> criminals totally need to look into ham radio
<diddledan> what better way to middle-finger the establishment than to use unlicensed bands to communicate out of the prying eye of internet censorship/spying
<zmoylan-pi> everyone monitors those frequencies
<zmoylan-pi> plus very very low bandwidth
<diddledan> do you need much bandwidth for a go order on robbing the granny on the corner of the street?
<diddledan> that must be due to doppler - they list the frequency of the downlink on that sattelite as start-of-pass at 435.115MHz drifting to end-of-pass at 435.095MHz
<diddledan> the uplink must have compensation inbuilt because it is static
<diddledan> the internet isn't going to break https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/28/internet_update_on_hold/
<diddledan> sweet ooga mooga
<diddledan> I've cleared my overdraft!!
<diddledan> uk school lost their balloon and you'll never guess where it ended up! https://twitter.com/Raspberry_Pi/status/913763213195579392
<diddledan> </clickbait>
<Guest14552> #sdf3dfgd454
<diddledan> omg, I was thinking exactly the same thing
<daftykins> diddledan: \o
<diddledan> o/
<daftykins> well, good thing i read that Draytek's firmware update manual, it had one image which nukes your config and one that doesn't XD
<diddledan> run them both :-p
<daftykins> i also firmware updated an Oki MFP o0
<daftykins> i think i might just enjoy progress bars or something
<diddledan> puerto rico is an island. surrounded by water. https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/913837786280558592
<daftykins> hrmm
<aptanet> Anyone here running the 17.10 beta?
<daftykins> what if they were?
<daftykins> (usually best to just ask the question :) )
<aptanet> good point, I'm clearly getting rusty with my irc etiquette!
<aptanet> I've just upgraded a box to play with and logged into the standard Ubuntu version of Gnome desktop and there are no indicators.
<aptanet> I'm sure they should be there, but I don't even have the Gnome legacy thing at the bottom left.
<aptanet> Just wondering how they were setup so I could fix it - rather than just sorting it out myself and ending up with a completely non-standard solution.
<daftykins> oops i forgot i read your query, i have no idea about desktop matters but i would probably take the simple approach of nuking my ~ gnome config to resolve any such surprises
<aptanet> Good point, I did try Gnome on 17.04; although I did surgically remove all packages and purge the configurations it may well have left stuff in my home directory.
<aptanet> Just need to work out what to nuke now.
<daftykins> mmm i'd only be googling, but maybe .config/<something in here>
<aptanet> found some . directories that may be related, nothing recent in them so I'll move them out the way (never delete, just in case - I've seen that mistake far too often) and see what happens.
<daftykins> *nod*
<aptanet> Well those made no difference. Nothing else looks likely so far.
<aptanet> Time to sleep on it.
<aptanet> Added quirks with Dash to Dock having ghost icons and the shutdown/sleep buttons not doing anything.
<aptanet> Also managed to get Dash to Dock appearing in the lock screen somehow!
<daftykins> ooh-err
<daftykins> can you create another user to test?
<daftykins> i'd start wondering about graphics hardware + driver in use in a way, assuming that's gnome3 - but i'm really rusty on desktop issues (used to give support but i stick to servers day to day)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-09-30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<zmoylan-pi> at least they aren't exploding? :-P https://9to5mac.com/2017/09/29/iphone-8-plus-casing-split-open/
<diddledan> is rocket.ubuntu.com broken?
<diddledan> I'm getting internal server error when logging in
 * brobostigon is in shock, someone is actually around.
<brobostigon> beer time me reckons, :)
 * zmoylan-pi is always around... thanks insomnia
<diddledan> nearly time for saturday spaghetti
<diddledan> and strictly come dancing! :-p
<zmoylan-pi> never mix spaghetti and dancing... it takes months to get a cast off...
<brobostigon> thats my idea, i cook while my fiance watches soaps.
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> evening MooDoo
<penguin42> hey
<brobostigon> evening penguin42
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-01
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> thought i was the only one about today lpol
<brobostigon> lpol?
<MooDoo> typo
<brobostigon> ah ok.
<hazrpg-new> hey all o/
<hazrpg[laptop]> just wondering, but has anyone recently got a 128GB (SSD) + 1TB (HDD) laptop? And if you have, what kind of configuration have you guys done for dual-booting? I'm currently doing
<hazrpg[laptop]> a ddrescue of the 128GB because it has all the factory settings on it. But I want to clean install Win10 and Ubuntu.
<MooDoo> hazrpg[laptop]: yeah i've got 250gb, with 60gb ubuntu rest windows 10, 1tb 2nd hard drive as ntfs mounted with fstab :)
<daftykins> hazrpg[laptop]: you could do a 100GB C: for win10, then the rest as / for your ubuntu install - maybe slice up the 1TB for each as storage too
<daftykins> mmm grey damp day today here on the rock
<penguin42> the whole weekend has been rather wet and grey here
<daftykins> i thought the north was famed for that!
<penguin42> it is, but this weekend has been particularly grey
<daftykins> hmm
<penguin42> it's interesting watching the solar generation graphs; Thursday managed to peak at about 5.5GW, today barely managed to hit 2GW at midday
<daftykins> ah har, whose hardware is that?
<penguin42> the whole of the UK; gridwatch.templar.co.uk
<penguin42> the solar is estimate because there's no actual central measurement
<daftykins> ah interesting, thanks
<penguin42> I sent the guy a mail to turn up the dial on wind :-)
<daftykins> needs to go to 11 ;D
<diddledan> all the way to 11!
<diddledan> penguin42: interesting that there's PV generation when it's dark outside: https://www.solar.sheffield.ac.uk/pvlive/
<diddledan> somhow we're producing 1.5MeggerWatts
<penguin42> diddledan: yeh :-) Note that is some neat approximation because there's no actual central measurement of PV
<diddledan> that's a nice site you linked tho
<diddledan> me like
<daftykins> could be coming off stored charge from their setups?
<diddledan> the elexon portal has quite detailed figures: https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=actgenration/actualaggregated
<penguin42> probably one or two broken reporters somewhere; or street lights
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh, that's the source that templar uses
<diddledan> wow. today we've produced as much through wind as we have through gas
<penguin42> diddledan: bmreports has loads of other things, like expected generation outages, peak expected usages and wind, and the geenration warnings when we get a bit too close for comfort
<diddledan> probably where the gas was people farting, causing the turbines to turn, and then burning the methane :-p
<penguin42> diddledan: The problem with the wind isn't the small blips - the problem is the week long blips when it suddenly drops down to 1/10 of that
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> we need some way to smoothen it out
<diddledan> gas is providing that backfill right now
<diddledan> but. there ain't much of that left
<penguin42> well, the coal comes on when it's really low
<diddledan> yeah, coal is more of a long-term thing because you can't turn it on and off as quickly
<penguin42> and this is a Sunday when the load is low
<diddledan> although they demolished the coal station near here, leaving just gas on that site - didcot
<diddledan> "I wonder why solar generation steadily increases during the day until it peaks around noon and then drops back at the same rate it ramped-up to begin with?"</moron>
<diddledan> so you know the sun orbits the Earth, right?
<diddledan> like the Earth is flat, so why does the sun fade rather than flip when it goes over the horizon?!
<penguin42> we need a Dyson sphere
<diddledan> that sounds sucky
<diddledan> I love the concept of the dyson sphere but it gonna take a helluva lot of energy and material
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> diddledan: What do you think happens to all the fluff they suck up?
<diddledan> although thinking about it, if you consider that the idea is to harvest the energy from the star, then as you start building it the building becomes progressively easier because you have progressively more and more energy trapped
<diddledan> I vote for Mr Musk to start building us one
<penguin42> nod, he seems to have plenty of free time
<diddledan> I really feel we can't be far off starting to harvest material from offworld
<diddledan> maybe a decade or two
<penguin42> 'Go to the offworld colonies.....'
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> just shared in Telegram on the Ubuntu Podcast channel, but I figure you'll enjoy the wackiness: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1924068812/mimimi-an-innovative-feminine-rinser
<diddledan> seriously nuts to be expecting Women to think that's a handy gadget for their hoohoo
<hazrpg[laptop]> anyone running ubuntu with secure boot on? And are they using 3rd party drivers. Ubuntu asked me to disable secure boot - but still booted fine. Am I missing something? Are there any packages that isn't getting used because I've kept secure boot on?
<daftykins> i think an nvidia proprietary driver might cause issues?
<diddledan> hazrpg[laptop]: your nvidia/amd/broadcom cards will be using opensource drivers if they exist
<diddledan> most likely your graphics card won't be using the proprietary drivers
<diddledan> although AMD are potentially sidestepping that in more recent stuff by having a hybrid driver where the gpl shim is included upstream
<diddledan> ?
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> I guess our advice wasn't wanted
<hazrpg[laptop]> sorry no was busy lol
<daftykins> diddledan: you can no haz laptop
<hazrpg[laptop]> daftykins: diddledan: ah, is there an easy way to use the non-opensource ones? Will there actually be any difference (I know the nvidia one will)
<daftykins> no idea what your hardware is to know which you're planning to use
<diddledan> the easy way to allow the proprietary drivers to work is to disable secure boot like the installer told you
<diddledan> that is also the ONLY way to let them work
<hazrpg[laptop]> diddledan: true, but it seems like a workaround to the problem
<daftykins> it is :D
<hazrpg[laptop]> wouldn't it make more sense to wrap around mokutils - since I've read that's how you would sign the drivers
<diddledan> you _could_ set up a certification authority and issue yourself a signing certificate and sign all your kernel modules using that certificate and install the certification certificate in your certifcation-store
<diddledan> but that would also be a workaround
<hazrpg[laptop]> well true
<daftykins> so you reckon nvidia would do that? ;D
<diddledan> those steps are far too convoluted to expect the average user to go through which is why it's not recommended by the installer in favour of advising to just disable secureboot
<hazrpg[laptop]> daftykins: heh, I meant that the nvidia one will probably be the only one not being loaded that I can tell
<daftykins> oh well you'd of course have to manually put it on if you wanted it
<diddledan> to find out of nvidia is loaded run `lsmod | grep nv`
<daftykins> still don't know the system hardware though (:
<diddledan> if it doesn't list a module called "nvidia" then you're running opensauce
<hazrpg[laptop]> daftykins: Dell Inspiron 15 7577
<diddledan> -.-
<daftykins> eh that would make me have to go and look something up
<hazrpg[laptop]> lol
<hazrpg[laptop]> lspci help?
<hazrpg[laptop]> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25657504/
<diddledan> that smells like an optimus setup
<hazrpg[laptop]> it is
<hazrpg[laptop]> although it isn't branded as one...
<hazrpg[laptop]> Intel 8265 Wireless Card
<daftykins> 1050Ti eh? funky
<daftykins> doubt that'll work anywhere near its' potential without the proprietary driver on then
<hazrpg[laptop]> daftykins: true, but I honestly won't need it for most of the work I do.
<hazrpg[laptop]> I think I'm more worried about the wifi, etc not working to its potential
<daftykins> well there's no proprietary intel driver that'd require secure boot off.
<hazrpg[laptop]> daftykins: I thought as much. So I can just craic on as normal then :)
<hazrpg[laptop]> I've honestly never used the nouveau drivers since 12.04, but is it likely its being used at all if its the intel built-in that I care about?
<hazrpg[laptop]> or does it still need to hand off to the intel core?
<daftykins> i'm sure it loaded, but i've no idea how hybrid setups function on Loonix these days, it was always a joke
<hazrpg[laptop]> I'll be honest, this is the first machine I've ever bought that has more than 1 hour in ubuntu!
<daftykins> on battery life i take it?
<hazrpg[laptop]> yeah
<daftykins> there were always 2+ implementations of optimus, used to be that the nvidia chip wrote to the intel's framebuffer to display, so mmm
<hazrpg[laptop]> my old machine got 1:30 hours when it was new, and as its getting old lasts 30-45 mins.
<hazrpg[laptop]> daftykins: I recall using bumblebee on my old one... god that was awful!
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> last i'd heard things hadn't improved much, nvidia-prime was easier to run but you had to suffer from tearing so i heard
<daftykins> when it comes to laptop battery life i always had a very different experience to others, i always found Linux distros murdered it compared to clean Windows installs
<hazrpg[laptop]> made worse that it was the first round of uefi bios and locked down so tight that it couldn't hear me screaming at it
<hazrpg[laptop]> still the case now
<hazrpg[laptop]> my old laptop got 1:30 hours in ubuntu, but 3 hours in windows
<hazrpg[laptop]> this one seems to give me 3 hours in ubuntu, but 3-6 in windows depending on the state
<hazrpg[laptop]> I found the latest nvidia drivers seemed to work a treat on my old machine - compared with bumblebee :/
<daftykins> hmm could've gotten to the point nvidia-prime was around
<hazrpg[laptop]> the only downside was that bumblebee let me select which driver on an application basis (albeit that you had to either write a script that ran optirun first, or change the .desktop file), nvidia requires you to log out and log back in and use one or the other cards in full
<hazrpg[laptop]> or maybe I've just need doing it wrong...
<daftykins> *boom*
<daftykins> g'night anyone left up \o
<diddledan> nn
