#ubuntu-us-or 2012-05-28
<cy1> Man, rsync is hanging for me. :(
<cy1> I dunno why either. It just suddenly started doing it.
<cy1> the one side writes, and it just gets lost, and the other side reads and waits...
<c_smith> bkerensa, are you intending to try and attend the Salem Ubuntu hour this week?
<bkerensa> c_smith: no. I would let you know far in advance if I was going to.
#ubuntu-us-or 2012-05-29
<MarkDude> bkerensa, ping
<bkerensa> MarkDude: yeah?
<MarkDude> Any word on a table for the Ubuntu folks
<bkerensa> MarkDude: No... Sharon said it would be a few weeks before she would know or not
<MarkDude> It appears that @boycottOSCON is still active on Twitter
<bkerensa> yeah but I cannot be involved with that Mark :)
<MarkDude> Fedora is cerrently looking in couches at RH headquarters for money. They have to buy a table
<MarkDude> That account expects no one else to be involved
<bkerensa> heh :)
<MarkDude> ALL theoretical of course
<bkerensa> MarkDude: I heard the floor is already sold out though
<MarkDude> No rule on if a backpack can say- have media and SWAG on it
<bkerensa> :)
<MarkDude> The Zombie Comic ruined my chance to be hired by a good portion of companies, soooooooooooooooooooooooo I figure I am going for Elder Statesman of Linux
 * bkerensa put out conference kit request in with Canonical since O'Reilly indicated a high level of likelihood that a booth would become available for Ubuntu in the coming weeks but either way I was assured we would be taken care of.
<bkerensa> ;p
<bkerensa> MarkDude: huh a local startup's CEO asked me to send him a resume today ;)
 * MarkDude would not be surpirsed if this all starts gaining steam. Many people in FOSS are not aware of changes
<MarkDude> Well I always figured you would get some hella high level job offer
<MarkDude> and then need to back up a bit from lead
<MarkDude> And then need to get e replacement
<MarkDude> It is how things work
<bkerensa> MarkDude: I'm not planning on taking it but it would be for Leslie's old job since she went to Redhat ;)
<MarkDude> Remeber- you are not crap unless you have a 4 digit bartab
<MarkDude> thats where SOMEBODIES start
<MarkDude> lol
<MarkDude> Understood.
<bkerensa> I have my sights on something else and im working on a cloud project anyways ;)
<bkerensa> well I better head off and catch some show before sleep ;)
<bkerensa> ttyl
<MarkDude> Clouds, clouds - yay clouds
<MarkDude> Cloud is part of the reason Robyn was chosen as FPL
<MarkDude> laters
<bkerensa> nathwill: good morning
<bkerensa> :D
<nathwill> morning bkerensa :)
<nathwill> have a good long weekend?
<bkerensa> yes indeed
<bkerensa> nathwill: how was yours?
<nathwill> bkerensa pretty good. had intended to get out to the coast, but the wife had the flu, so no luck
<bkerensa> ahh thats no good
<bkerensa> nathwill: so just chilled in beaverton and hacked on your proliant?
<nathwill> bkerensa, yeah, pretty much. took a drive out around St. Helens yesterday, just looking around to see what kinds of properties are for sale
<nathwill> other than that, hacking on this owncloud charm, and cleaning house :)
<bkerensa> nathwill: St. Helens heh
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> why would you torture yourself by living in St. Helens? :)
<bkerensa> Do they even have Internet and Power out there? :P
<nathwill> bkerensa, because it's beautimous
<bkerensa> nathwill: so I got invited to be a part of ConnectMyDNA's marketing campaign
<nathwill> i have no idea who that is
<bkerensa> nathwill: so its a competitor of the company that Sergey Brin's wife created
<bkerensa> basically they take your DNA and do awesome things in lab and tell you something cool about your DNA
<bkerensa> idk
<bkerensa> you basically get a white paper on your DNA make up and a map of it
<nathwill> hrm
<nathwill> no thanks
<bkerensa> ;p
<nathwill> ok, this thing provides zero value, seriously
<nathwill> all you get back is a fuggin' picture, and some info on likely country of origin? there's waaay easier ways to get that
<nathwill> they're not even providing USEFUL information like disease tendencies...
<nathwill> waaay no thanks
<bkerensa> nathwill: ;p I was not trying to sell you ;)
 * bkerensa poofs to make lunch
<bkerensa> blkperl: I have the BSP/Jam Flyer? Where can I send it
<blkperl> bkerensa: blkperl@cat.pdx.edu
#ubuntu-us-or 2012-05-30
<jpiroshky> Hey y'all, I'm in Texas!  It's almost like being in an answering machine ^_^.  Seriously though, I am researching flash support in Ubuntu for FreeGeek, do you guys use flash and if so, what are your favorite rigs?
<bkerensa> jpiroshky: I use flash.... favorite rigs? :)
<jpiroshky> I've got a buddy that really likes the web-kit in midori, it has flash support sans adobe to my knowledge (haha, 'you mean celine can sing mariah better than mariah?')
<jpiroshky> tis true though, out of box support is super-cool for our game
<jpiroshky> alright, signing off, I've gotta do some testing-
<bkerensa> =o
<bkerensa> MarkDude: wanna conference with me and jono? :P
<MarkDude> Jono and I would be the proper way to say that Sir ;)
<MarkDude> maybe Jono and me
<bkerensa> MarkDude: Jono and I even... Wanna hop on G+ with us in a bit :)
<MarkDude> Sure
<MarkDude> when?
<bkerensa> supposed to do a conference with him at 3pm ;)
<bkerensa> but he wont be expecting u ;)
<MarkDude> Even more fun
 * MarkDude is pretty sure that RH will kick in at least $100 if he does another LUGradio show
<bkerensa> hah
<sbeattie> heh, ambush hangout?
<bkerensa> sbeattie: ofc
<bkerensa> MarkDude: can you jump on G+ now
<bkerensa> and I'll invite you and then in a few mins Ill invite Jono in :P
<MarkDude> Just a minute
<MarkDude> I need to text someone
<bkerensa> lol
<MarkDude> ok
<MarkDude> ready
<bkerensa> MarkDude: he will arrive soon perhaps
<MarkDude> Hmm
<MarkDude> I just had an error
<bkerensa> lol
<bkerensa> MarkDude: we couldnt hear you
<bkerensa> :P
<bkerensa> your cat was purring so we muted you but G+ wouldnt let us unmute
<MarkDude> Yet another reason I refer to myself as a less charming version of Jono
<MarkDude> No stress
<MarkDude> I know of at least one other person in Portland that will hang some fliers
 * MarkDude has a list of places for him to go
<bkerensa> MarkDude: Jono better not ship a lot of AV equipment
<bkerensa> heh
<bkerensa> >.<
<MarkDude> He will ship amps also
<MarkDude> Spinal Tap size
<MarkDude> that go to 11
<cy1> woah
<cy1> python can do zips now
<cy1> zip something.zip *.py; python something.zip
<cy1> runs the script __main__.py in the zip
<bkerensa> cy1: it can what? it can run scripts inside of zips?
<cy1> bkerensa: yeah
#ubuntu-us-or 2012-06-01
<tgm4883> bkerensa, ping
<bkerensa> tgm4883: ping
<bkerensa> pong even
<bkerensa> tgm4883: when you see this e-mail me if your ping is time sensitive since I will be gone most of tomorrow :)
<tgm4883> bkerensa, no worries, I was going to ask you about juju stuff
<nathwill> morning all
<bkerensa> nathwill: morning
<bkerensa> tgm4883: Im actually in for a little bit I dont have to leave for a hour or two
<bkerensa> :D
<tgm4883> bkerensa, how much do you know about juju/other similar types of software?
<bkerensa> tgm4883: I know a decent amount about juju.... Not much about puppet/chef etc
<bkerensa> nathwill: :P yahoo epic fail with the private key
<tgm4883> Here's my issue: We have a decent VMWare ESXi environment in our datacenter. We have a range of different servers (intel, sun, hp, dell). We've noticed a bunch of the older ones (intel) don't like ESX so much (either it doens't install, or has kernel panics)
<tgm4883> we'd like to get something working on these machines, in a similar capacity to ESX
<tgm4883> (not to mention that ESX licensing is lots of $$)
<pwnguin> ganeti!
<pwnguin> tgm4883: do you need vm migration?
<tgm4883> So I'm wondering if there is other software out there that would help, don't know much about juju
<pwnguin> betewen disparate archs
<tgm4883> pwnguin, no. We would want live migration for our production vm's, but that would be all the same arch
<tgm4883> I've looked at openstack and kvm (using convirt)
<bkerensa> tgm4883: Juju will not work for you yet
<tgm4883> bkerensa, ok
<bkerensa> Juju only works on AWS atm
<bkerensa> I mean you could run it on LXC but that would not be good
<bkerensa> :)
<bkerensa> they are working to get it working on more platforms though
<pwnguin> tgm4883: here at the OSL we use ganeti
<pwnguin> http://code.google.com/p/ganeti/
<tgm4883> What I'd like to do is install 12.04 on the boxes, install something like KVM on all of them, and then have a central way to manage them
<tgm4883> pwnguin, I'm looking at that page now :)
<pwnguin> we also write ganeti web manager
<tgm4883> pwnguin, ah so it does have a web interface?
<bkerensa> pwnguin: nice... OSL does such good things
<pwnguin> it can, if you use GWM
<pwnguin> tgm4883: ganeti has a json remote api
<tgm4883> that is a key requirement, as I can deal with cmd line stuff, but if I have to give the banner team some access they won't like that
<pwnguin> tgm4883: which uni do you work ofr?
<tgm4883> chemeketa community college
<pwnguin> oh, that's in salem
<tgm4883> yea salem and we have some outreaches in some other cities
<pwnguin> yea, who doesn't these days
<pwnguin> so one of the nice features we have in GWM is an ajax/html5 vnc client
<pwnguin> as you may know, esx does not like linux desktops
<tgm4883> pwnguin, is there a demo of this anywhere?
<tgm4883> by demo, I mean like a youtube video of features?
<pwnguin> good question
<pwnguin> theres probably a dozen or so
<pwnguin> let me confer with my senior folk on this
<tgm4883> pwnguin, we don't use esx for anything really desktop related yet. It runs most of our servers though (web, email, etc)
<tgm4883> pwnguin, ok
<pwnguin> tgm4883: no, i mean, if you run an ubuntu desktop
<pwnguin> the esx client hates you
<tgm4883> ah yes
<tgm4883> it really does hate that
<pwnguin> so Ramereth is a better ganeti salesman than I ;)
<Ramereth> tgm4883: i don't have a video (yet) but i have a vagrant setup that will make it easy for you to try it out
<Ramereth> i'm working on better documentation on it but I can at least point you at a few things
<tgm4883> I RDP into a box in the datacenter that has the vmware client on it
<Ramereth> https://github.com/ramereth/vagrant-ganeti <- vagrant repo
<Ramereth> http://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/osl/ganeti-tutorial/presentation-ganeti-tutorial.pdf <- old tutorial I used from OSCON last year (pre-vagrant setup). If you ignore the node setup and just follow the ganeti command walkthrough it should be a good setup
<Ramereth> i may have time this weekend to cleanup that tutorial pdf so its more accurate
<Ramereth> oops, that's the presso
<Ramereth> http://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/osl/ganeti-tutorial/GanetiTutorialPDFSheet.pdf <- that's the pdf
<tgm4883> Ramereth, sounds good
<Ramereth> ganeti gets installed by puppet automatically in the vagrant setup i have
<tgm4883> so this is what you guys use at OSUOSL for your VM cluster?
<pwnguin> clusters
<Ramereth> basically if you go from step #6 onward it should be fine
<Ramereth> tgm4883: yup, all of our virtualization and we have several clusters
<tgm4883> sweet
 * tgm4883 brb
<tgm4883> back
<tgm4883> I've got one server I can work with now, i'll need to get cabling for the others
<tgm4883> right now these intel servers are just sitting in the rack without cabling
<Ramereth> what os are you planning on using?
<tgm4883> Ubuntu for the hosts
<Ramereth> that shouldn't be hard to deploy then
<Ramereth> although i've had issues with 12.04
<tgm4883> bummer, that's what we're installing
<Ramereth> mostly related to gnutls and openssl
<Ramereth> although i was installing from source, the ppa might be better
<tgm4883> looks like it's available directly in the repos
<tgm4883> at least some is
<Ramereth> ya but its probably pretty old
<tgm4883> true
<Ramereth> i'm not sure what version they include
<Ramereth> you really want to keep up on the versions as they include improved features and bug fixes
<bkerensa> =o
<bkerensa> wow
<tgm4883> Version: 2.4.5-1
<bkerensa> Ramereth is in our channel :P
<Ramereth> tgm4883: that's not too bad, 2.5 has some better features
<Ramereth> bkerensa: yup
<tgm4883> so DRBD replicates the disk to other nodes in the cluster
<Ramereth> to a secondary node
<tgm4883> and that is required for HA
<tgm4883> While I can set it up in test to the local drives, can we use an iSCSI mount on each of the nodes instead and forgo the DRBD replication?
<tgm4883> forgive me if I'm not seeing something, I've got a ESXi mindset here
<Ramereth> ya the ganeti mindset is very different
<tgm4883> I'm just wondering if there is any benefit to using DRBD over iSCSI mounts (although I don't know much about DRBD)
<tgm4883> it seems like unnecessary overhead if you've got a SAN
<Ramereth> sorry i keep getting stuck in a conversion in my office
<Ramereth> so ganeti does support "shared storage"
<tgm4883> Ramereth, no worries, I'm reading though the documentation and PDF's you posted
<Ramereth> but i guess it depends on how you want to go around. we have one cluster where we do have an iscsi device and we decided to only use drbd for the system disks of the VM and have iscsi mounted inside of the VMs themselves
<Ramereth> and that seems to work pretty well
<Ramereth> but it depends on how you plan on using the storage too I suppose
<tgm4883> the way we currently do it, and how we'd probably like to continue is this
<Ramereth> we used to have iscsi backed storage for VMs in the past in the pre-ganeti days and we hated every minute of it
<tgm4883> we have 4 production ESXi servers for our main services. Each ESX server mounts the same iSCSI share.
<tgm4883> so 4 servers, 1 share (although technically we've broken that 1 share up as well)
<tgm4883> then the VM's sit on the iSCSI share
<tgm4883> share isn't the correct terminology :/
<Ramereth> well, same lun is shared among each node?
<tgm4883> yes
<Ramereth> and esx moves it from node to ndoe as it needs to?
<tgm4883> ESX moves the VM from node to node, yes
<Ramereth> ya that makes sense
<tgm4883> the storage doesn't need moved though, as all 4 hosts have access to the same storage
<Ramereth> we've separated our large storage needs from the vm technology itself ourselves
<tgm4883> Ramereth, ok, so you have a bunch of hosts, where does the storage for the VM's reside?
<tgm4883> or rather
<tgm4883> how much storage do you need on each node for that setup?
<Ramereth> depends on your needs
<Ramereth> but i generally get as much storage as I can afford and then use an nfs or iscsi storage solution for larger needs
<Ramereth> so in the case of one client, we only have 10-20G system disks on drbd w/ ganeti but have 100-500G volumes mounted over nfs
<tgm4883> and the VM's live on the system disks or the NFS?
<Ramereth> system
<tgm4883> hmm
<bkerensa> nathwill: Ramereth is the OSU OSL guy who gives +1 or -1 for Colo
<tgm4883> I don't think we could fit many vm's on a system disk. Even if we were just installing minimal images
<Ramereth> tgm4883: for you you might look into the shared storage option that ganeti now supports
<Ramereth> i haven't personally used it before so I can't tell you how it works but I think the idea is that you have a large slice mounted on each node and ganeti just deals with managing it
<tgm4883> looking
<Ramereth> i'm not sure how well documented that feature is :/
<tgm4883> Ramereth, yea this looks like exactly what we're doing
<tgm4883> the only PPA I found with ganeti is https://launchpad.net/~sdeziel/+archive/ganeti
<MarkDude> Ubuntu Oregon logs make the news >>> http://www.itworld.com/node/279368
<MarkDude> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/24/%23ubuntu-us-or.txt
 * MarkDude was against logging, figured he might as well make it work to his advantage, annoucing stuff in a stealth manner
<MarkDude> Hmmmm apparently  <blkperl> has their address on public record
<bkerensa> MarkDude: what?
<MarkDude> read the log
<MarkDude> wawit maybe thats an event location
<Ramereth> tgm4883: if you need anymore help i tend to idle in #ganeti or #osuosl. i'm going to head out of this channel
<bkerensa> ttyl folks
<nathwill> bye
<blkperl> MarkDude: yeah its the Engineering Building address
<MarkDude> Fair enough-
<MarkDude> It looks like I will need to clarify with the councilfolk- it was ME that created Twitter account
 * MarkDude thought it would be Fedora logs that would trace it to me.
 * MarkDude had it explained there was a delay in logs being posted with Ubuntu- apparently not :)
<MarkDude> maybe I will say it was all nathwill 's idea, he told me to do it
<MarkDude> :D
#ubuntu-us-or 2012-06-02
<cy1> ahahahaha
<cy1> minetest is working awesome
<cy1> They fixed the occlusion bug and now it even actually functions on my crappy laptop.
<cy1> They have a toggle button to render only nearby blocks or not. o.o
<nathwill> what?
#ubuntu-us-or 2012-06-03
<MarkDude> bkerensa, pingy
<bkerensa> MarkDude: ys?
<bkerensa> MarkDude: Yes?
 * MarkDude just went to Loco Council to clarify that only MarkDude created account
<MarkDude> and that Oregon wanted nothing to do with it
<MarkDude> As Council members stated to me at UDS
<MarkDude> Oregon is gonna be approved
#ubuntu-us-or 2013-05-28
<bkerensa> MarkDude: how goes that raffle
<bkerensa> :D
<MarkDude> give me a few
<MarkDude> earache
<MarkDude> bkerensa, I can do the drawing tonight- earache took me out last night
 * MarkDude will have sexycatsinhats here for it- I will see if Daniel can watch it live to keep it Open :)
<MarkDude> Sorry for the delay on my part
<bkerensa> tgm4883: do you know why a mythbuntu update might stop video from displaying?
<tgm4883> bkerensa, video in what?
<tgm4883> video in mythtv? or video outside of mythtv
<tgm4883> or, video output from a specific video card to a specific display
<bkerensa> tgm4883: I'm unsure let me look into that
<bkerensa> tgm4883: I'm trying to help someone who called me .... They took a class I taught on Xubuntu and install Mythbuntu on somethin
<tgm4883> bkerensa, so unless they added our repos, we don't push updates, they would be regular ubuntu/xubuntu updates
<tgm4883> if they did add our repos, we only do mythtv updates, and that shouldn't have hurt anything outside of mythtv
<tgm4883> so if it's outside mythtv, I would say it's a ubuntu/xubuntu update that broke something
<tgm4883> if it's video inside (and only inside) mythtv, then we'll want to look at the logs in /var/log/mythtv/
<bkerensa> tgm4883: all the person said is they did some sort of update and now video no longer plays on their flat screen
<bkerensa> tgm4883: I have asked him to explain more and give hardware details
<tgm4883> bkerensa, it sounds like they don't have any display on their flatscreen, which to me sounds like video card driver issue
<bkerensa> ah
#ubuntu-us-or 2013-05-29
<bkerensa> slangasek: [ 6337.035663] systemd-hostnamed[20119]: Warning: nss-myhostname is not installed. Changing the local hostname might make it unresolveable. Please install nss-myhostname!
<bkerensa> you know what that is?
<bkerensa> its in dmesg
<bkerensa> also been seeing lots of this: "[ 6291.378390] traps: pxgsettings[19817] general protection ip:4014fa sp:7fff0ec6ee90 error:0 in pxgsettings[400000+2000]
<bkerensa> "
<slangasek> bkerensa: it's systemd-hostnamed having opinions that I do not share
<bkerensa> slangasek: :)
<slangasek> the right answer is for hostnamed to simultaneously take care of updating the 127.0.1.1 entry in /etc/hosts when it updates /etc/hostname; but we haven't patched it to do this yet
<slangasek> but in any case, this isn't an issue that bothers people in practice
<slangasek> as for pkgsettings, that's a very nice buggy piece of software that's part of the GNOME desktop stack now; I don't know how we've would up with such a buggy implementation
<bkerensa> :D
<slangasek> pxgsettings, rather; seems I have a hard time typing 'pxg' vs. 'pkg'
<bkerensa> slangasek: is there any protip for merging upstream git branches into ubuntu source packages?
<slangasek> no
<bkerensa> I dont think bzr merge does this?
<bkerensa> ok
<bkerensa> :9
<bkerensa> :( even
<slangasek> bzr merge requires there to be a shared history; it doesn't allow you to "merge" from arbitrary foreign branches
<slangasek> while a sensible design decision in and of itself, this is effectively one of the biggest reasons for bzr losing the VCS wars
<bkerensa> slangasek: when building a package that I'm merging from upstream because debian not longer carries the source package the builds going to fail since a original tarball is not present.... How do I get around that
<slangasek> you get an original tarball for it
<bkerensa> slangasek:  you mean create one?
<slangasek> if necessary
<slangasek> which slack upstream is this that's not creating tarballs for their releases?
<bkerensa> http://gitorious.org/vaapi/gstreamer-vaapi
<bkerensa> unless I'm missing something
<bkerensa> and I cannot find this package on Debian PTS anymore
<bkerensa> which if why I'm grabbing this git branch
#ubuntu-us-or 2013-05-31
<MarkDude> bkerensa, ready
#ubuntu-us-or 2014-05-27
<MarkDude> Plans for OSCON and CLS yet?
<bkero> CLS!
#ubuntu-us-or 2014-05-29
<blkperl> slangasek: why is polkit so broken...
<blkperl> and how do i debug it
<blkperl> oow i just core-dumped it
<slangasek> blkperl: I don't know and I don't know
#ubuntu-us-or 2015-05-26
<bkerensa> wxl: did you get a oscon booth and could Kubuntu split it with you?
<wxl> bkerensa: i think i'm supposed to hear by today and of course
<bkerensa> wxl:  maybe me and sgclark can join you then :)
<bkerensa> I just became a Kubuntu Member
<wxl> oh! i didn't know!
<wxl> very cool
<bkerensa> yeah voted in today
<wxl> i didn't even know you were a kde user
<wxl> i thought you were one of those icky bread and butter unity users :)
<bkerensa> wxl: I have used all the flavors but am not currently a kde user
<bkerensa> wxl: my membership was transferred more along lines of some issues that have recently come up
<bkerensa> wxl: you can probably guess looking on Planet ;)
<sgclark> yeah wxl bkerensa I will help
<wxl> first i got to get approval
<wxl> from oreilly
<bkerensa> alas I also have an app in for a Mozilla booth
<bkerensa> :d
<bkerensa> and O'Reilly just told me my chances for a Mozilla booth are very good
<wxl> in the community section or are they doing the hardware thing again?
#ubuntu-us-or 2015-05-28
<wxl> bkerensa: sgclark: the booth is approved at oscon, but not sure about kde sharing space with us yet
<wxl> not sure why that's even a question anyone needs to check on but whatever
<sgclark> Well technically it would be Kubuntu as we are not dead yet!
<wxl> aw come on
<sgclark> not without a fight lol
<wxl> if we make it kde then all those fun people from lfnw can make it :)
<sgclark> oh true
 * wxl likes albert
<sgclark> fine by me, I am heavily involved with both
<wxl> i think leaving it open would be cool
<sgclark> yeah
<sgclark> either way, I am there!
<wxl> i think showing off kde connect would be rad
<wxl> it's going to be crazy for me as i have a wedding i need to go to the week after
<sgclark> yeah
<wxl> work is going to be unhappy
<sgclark> :(
 * wxl shrugs
<wxl> XD
#ubuntu-us-or 2015-05-29
<bkerensa> wxl: I will have to pass my booth app was approved too
<bkerensa> going to be demoing Mozilla VR
<bkerensa> :D
<wxl> bkerensa: yours is for kde?
<wxl> no mozilla that's right
<wxl> so sgclark you want to round up the kde folks again?
<wxl> sgclark: bkerensa: all this talk about kubuntu/cc may generate some more interest XD
<sgclark> hmm
<bkerensa> wxl: will you pay for power out of pocket?
<bkerensa> its like $300+
<sgclark> not entirely sure kde will be interested after the laast email
<wxl> yikes, is that a thing?
<bkerensa> yep
<wxl> holy f*********************
<bkerensa> they just give you a booth man
 * wxl facepalms
<bkerensa> you pay for everything else
<bkerensa> vacuuming
<bkerensa> power
<bkerensa> internet
<wxl> screw it, i'm bringing brochures and nothing else, then.
<bkerensa> trash
<bkerensa> LOL
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> Mozilla pays for it all
<bkerensa> last year our booth cost $70k
<wxl> holy christ
<wxl> how is that possible?!
<bkerensa> we paid a firm to design us a booth
<bkerensa> internet
<bkerensa> power
<wxl> oh
<bkerensa> vacuuming
<bkerensa> swag
<sgclark> it was pretty fancy though..
<bkerensa> dinners
<wxl> well ignoring the booth design and swag
<wxl> and dinners
<bkerensa> ;)
<bkerensa> dinners at fancy swank restaurants :P
<wxl> still $300 for power?
<bkerensa> yes
<wxl> that's some total bullcrap
<bkerensa> Unionized labor man
<bkerensa> :P
<wxl> i'll freaking bring a bike and generate my own
<wxl> a$$hats
<bkerensa> thats how much it cost a guy to come and unlock a metal panel and plug in a power strip
<bkerensa> :D
<wxl> sgclark: the one from charles?
<bkerensa> man it cost us like $3k to get this give away free donuts to attendees
<sgclark> yeah
<bkerensa> we then had to pay for the donuts too
<bkerensa> $3k just to have the privlege to do something nice
<bkerensa> ;)
<wxl> sgclark: i wasn't too convinced by his proof
<bkerensa> wxl: http://benjaminkerensa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/IMG_20140723_161033.jpg
<bkerensa> so that was our booth
<sgclark> me either, I am contemplating giving up hope and drafting my resignation
<bkerensa> and that was my team that worked under me to make it happen :D
<wxl> hm
<wxl> from kubuntu you mean sgclark ?
<wxl> or kde?!
<sgclark> mmhm (k)ubuntu , I will continue supporting bug fix releases to Vivid. but not wily
<bkerensa> sgclark: why resign?
<sgclark> the whole dang thing was handled soooo badly
<bkerensa> just ignore Ubuntu
<wxl> awwwww
<bkerensa> the CC anyways
<wxl> i kind of agree with bkerensa
<wxl> do your own thing
<bkerensa> ^ that
<sgclark> why should I put in my valuable (free) time to a project that has no care at all for the community.
<bkerensa> sgclark: thats the thing the project you contribute to is Kubuntu
<bkerensa> not Ubuntu
<bkerensa> stop supporting Ubuntu and focus solely on Kubuntu tasks
<sgclark> How is providing KDE packages to all of Ubuntu not contributing to ubuntu?
<bkerensa> because it supports Kubuntu
<bkerensa> Ubuntu users dont use KDE stuff
<bkerensa> ;)
<sgclark> pft
<sgclark> lies
<bkerensa> I never did
<bkerensa> :P
<bkerensa> sgclark: although if you do #ubuntu-expats is a channel to join
<bkerensa> :)
<wxl> man
<wxl> well i still have faith in the concept of ubuntu
<wxl> maybe not the current practices of the community leaders
<wxl> i'm sure going to keep trying
<wxl> although i feel i should join someone like mozilla instead
<sgclark> I up till a week ago, so did I
<wxl> (if only i didn't prefer chrome)
<bkerensa> http://doctormo.org/2013/03/06/ubuntu-membership-2/
<bkerensa> ^ sgclark also probably worth a read especially the comments
<bkerensa> a former Kubuntu Leader left a comment there... she left because some of the stuff that kicked off some years ago
<bkerensa> honestly Ubuntu has changed a lot since 2009
<bkerensa> wxl: :( chrome
<bkerensa> you hate the open web bro? :P
<wxl> i know, bkerensa
<wxl> i know
<wxl> it's not a political move
<bkerensa> wxl: kees works on chrome ;)
<bkerensa> chrome OS I think
<wxl> i'll be honest: i love mozilla
<wxl> i love everything they stand for
<wxl> i love the people!
<wxl> and i don't hate firefox
<wxl> in my mind thunderbird is the only option for a gui mail reader
<wxl> but man there's just little tiny things about chrome that keep me with it
<wxl> kinda sucks.
<bkerensa> wxl: like what? I would like to know so I can share the feedback with the User Advocacy Team in case its not something we are aware of
<wxl> bkerensa: dumb stuff. and actually most of the non-FOSS stuff, like pepper, the pdf reader
<sgclark> ahh yes like of pepper is my main complaint
<wxl> the other stuff is just like i've gotten used to. certain extensions (which invariably exist for firefox), apps, sync
<sgclark> and cross pc sync
<sgclark> otherwise I love FF
<wxl> i use gmail a lot (i know, i'm like the devil's right hand man) and i like how it integrates neatly
<wxl> but i'm sure those things are pretty much good on firefox
<wxl> i haven't tried but i've been watching the development
<wxl> i used to have problems with memory leaks but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore
<wxl> in fact i've had problems with chrome lately
<wxl> although i do use beta so that may be the cause
<bkerensa> wxl: right memory leaks on Linux had been an issue
<bkerensa> Linux kind of comes last in terms of focus
<bkerensa> its our smallest user base
<wxl> tl;dr i'm totally in support of mozilla everything
<wxl> i'm just so far kind of stuck on chrome
<wxl> and honestly i don't know why i care so much about flash. i kind of freaking hate it.
 * wxl sighs
<bkerensa> Pepper we cant support because we hope flash dies and think its a terrible technology
<wxl> flash is the new php
<bkerensa> PDF... we have a great pdf support in FF
<wxl> bkerensa: without extensions?
<bkerensa> yep
<bkerensa> built in
<wxl> ok well i can mark that off the list
<wxl> :)
<bkerensa> for gosh a long damn time
<bkerensa> two years or more?
<bkerensa> how long you been away from FF?
<bkerensa> :D
<wxl> it's been a while!!!
<bkerensa> you also are on LTS maybe?
<bkerensa> thats much slower than our release cycles
<wxl> yeah i'm using lts but it doesn't matter
<wxl> i won't pull from the repos typically
<wxl> like i'm running thunderbird daily >:)
<sgclark> lol Mutual Mexican standoff
<bkerensa> Thunderbird imho will die eventually
<bkerensa> its not in good shape
<sgclark> aww I like thunderbird
<wxl> oh god don't tell me that bkerensa
<bkerensa> I was doing Thunderbird Release Management in addition to FF Release Management
<wxl> please don't tell me that
 * wxl cries
<sgclark> ikr
<bkerensa> well they dont have any real fulltime devs anymore
 * sgclark does too
<wxl> i've tried and tried and tried and i cannot find anything else i like
<sgclark> hmm
<bkerensa> and no security folks
<wxl> nothing
<wxl> O_O
<bkerensa> so
<bkerensa> no security reviews
<bkerensa> of code
<bkerensa> its all community folks now
<bkerensa> one guy doing QA
<bkerensa> Firefox has hundreds going QA
<bkerensa> as an example
<bkerensa> :P
<wxl> fix it bkerensa !
<bkerensa> its all about money
<bkerensa> TB made only debt
 * wxl cries
<bkerensa> millions in debt
<wxl> let's do some crowdfunding
<wxl> tell me more about that
<bkerensa> ten full time staff with 100k salaries for years and marketing = debt
<bkerensa> :P
<bkerensa> Postbox FTW
<bkerensa> it is the future
<wxl> surely it's the same thing for ff tho?
<bkerensa> and the original thunderbird team actually makes Postbox
<sgclark> postbox?
<bkerensa> wxl: no
<bkerensa> Firefox makes millions
<bkerensa> tens of millions annually
<wxl> through the freaking search engine crap? :)
<sgclark> how? I thought it was non profit?
<bkerensa> and other things
<bkerensa> sgclark: non profit doesnt mean you cant make money
<wxl> i thought firefox was a "low profit" corp
<bkerensa> Mozilla makes more money then Canonical easily
<wxl> (like there's a thing in some states for that now)
<wxl> what do they call them? l3cs?
<wxl> postbox = ??/
<bkerensa> yeah
<bkerensa> TB team when they got laid off and left went to make Postbox
<wxl> also i see no linux option
<sgclark> ok, clearly I need to pull out my dictionary lol
<bkerensa> exactly
<wxl> f this noise
<bkerensa> ;)
<bkerensa> but its great
<wxl> i forgot you are a freedom hater with yoru mac there, bkerensa :)
<bkerensa> wxl: I have multiple systems
<bkerensa> :P
<wxl> sgclark: read the book drive by daniel pink. that's where i learned about it
<bkerensa> synergy
<wxl> bkerensa: excuses, excuses :)
<bkerensa> wxl: also you been to a open source conference lately other than LFNW?
<bkerensa> ;)
<wxl> bkerensa: not lately, no. you win. :)
<bkerensa> Linux is in the minority even at FOSS conferences
<wxl> i know
<bkerensa>  FLOSS Weekly hosts = all mac users :P
<sgclark> pft
<bkerensa> even The Linux Action Show = all done with mac osx
<bkerensa> ;)
<bkero> :|
<bkerensa> bkero:  lawl
<bkerensa> :P
<bkerensa> you didnt know this?
<wxl> bkerensa: well not at lfnw
<sgclark> I am growing tired of fighting with OSX builds on my kde ci
<wxl> sgclark: sounds like bkerensa is volunteering the foss community to deal with that XD
<sgclark> lol
<bkerensa> wxl: oh they have a macbook all their software is OSX stuff ;)
<bkerensa> wxl: I am about to launch a show with them and its all OSX
<wxl> os x pisses me off
<bkero> I didn't know. I care as much now as I did back then though.
<wxl> it's not freebsd+
<sgclark> darn osx and its crazy stupid outdated system libs...
<wxl> if it was, i'd be fine
<bkerensa> bkero: is it surprising to you though?
<bkerensa> bkero: you go to OSCON
<bkerensa> look around
<bkero> yup
<bkerensa> its like 60-70% OSX/Windows and the rest linux
<wxl> look, honestly i'm a pragmatist
<wxl> that's one of the reasons i choose the sometimes non-foss software i do
<wxl> function wins out over politics
<sgclark> indeed
<bkerensa> Anyways my setup at home is: Macbook, Linux on Mac Mini both into one display with Synergy
<bkerensa> so I can switch between both
<wxl> i had a period where i really loved os x
<wxl> and i think on the surface, it's wonderful
 * bkero will live in his beautiful free software world, tyvm.
<sgclark> I have several linux boxes, but I do have a windows box. OSX is too rich for my blood >.<
<wxl> it's the underpinnings that irritate me
<bkerensa> mobile though its almost always OSX right now because I have not bought a new Linux laptop yet and my two linux laptops are dying
<wxl> yeah i'm kind of the opposite. i don't do windows, sgclark :)
<wxl> ALTHOUGH
<sgclark> hehe I like games, and alas windows, though steam is coming along nicely
<bkerensa> wxl: btw if you have not met bkero he works at Mozilla and is perhaps one of the biggest Linux zealots there
<bkerensa> :D
<wxl> i'm kind of exited about what open source microsoft might mean
<wxl> +1 for steam
<sgclark> yeah
<wxl> i need to build a steam box
<bkero> It means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish
<bkerensa> I think the only way Linux will have parity with OSX or Windows is if Canonical or Red Hat start bankrolling devs to port
<wxl> bkero: heard it before, but i think that may be a jaded view
<bkerensa> parity in terms of desktop apps that is
<bkerensa> wxl:  also Mozilla was a big reason I got a macbook
<bkerensa> bkero:  I blame Mozilla ^
<bkerensa> that and gaming
<wxl> bkerensa: as you knwo, jmarinacci is a big apple fanboy. well, he uses just about every one of their products. i don't think he's a regular drinker of their kool-aid, though.
<bkerensa> running dota2, HoTs etc on Wine is not a option
<bkerensa> wxl: I use as much free software on OSX as possible
<bkerensa> LibreOffice
<bkerensa> Gimp
<bkerensa> etc
<wxl> bkerensa: in case it's not clear, i wasn't actually insulting your choice of hardware :)
<bkerensa> wxl: I know you were not
<wxl> just checking :)
<bkerensa> I hope someday I can play games without Wine on Linux
<bkerensa> good games
<bkerensa> to clarify
<sgclark> yeah
<wxl> heheheh
<sgclark> me too
<bkerensa> not TuxRacer ;)
<sgclark> lol
<wxl> hey come on
<wxl> i love tuxracer :)
<bkerensa> and fwiw steam fking blows on Linux
<bkerensa> they need to optimize their code
<bkerensa> it always cause my CPU to panic and shutdown
<wxl> huh
<sgclark> and to be fair I am trying very hard to get OSX going with KDE, and we are making good progress
<bkerensa> probably the hardware
<wxl> might be a particular game or games
<bkerensa> but still
<sgclark> Windows is next... that will not be fun
<bkerensa> I like "it just works" for gaming
<wxl> i play heavy bullets all the time quite happily
<bkerensa> try playing dota2
<bkerensa> its supported on steam linux
<bkerensa> it would cause panic and shutdown
<bkero> Is this going to be the conversation where we all talk about how hard we tried to use linux but ended up needing to use windows/osx instead "to get real work done?"
<sgclark> I have not had much time to game, but the mmo shrouds of avartar runs great on Linux, native steam build
<sgclark> meh I use Linux for everything but the occasional gamines
<bkerensa> bkero: no because I still use Ubuntu on my desktop
<sgclark> err games
<bkerensa> I'm flexible in my use of OSes
<bkerensa> much like my use of mobile OSes where I switch between my flame and Nexus 6 often
<sgclark> but I may have more gaming time soon! : /
<bkerensa> wxl: anyways if you want to use the Portland office bkero is a great contact
<bkerensa> :D
 * wxl only uses linux except where we need to use windows for microsoft access at workâ¦ which we'll eventually deviate from and even then it's in a virtual machine
<bkerensa> he also is a great speaker on all things open source but more so electric bikes :D
<bkero> heh
<wxl> bkero: so i don't know about these weirdos but you're in good company with me :)
<bkero> okay
<wxl> bkero: bike friday just started offering bionx builds on our cargo bikes and regular singles
<bkerensa> wxl: do you use irccloud?
<wxl> bkerensa: btw that dude you suggested who's the debian packager never got in touch at all.
<bkerensa> wxl: who?
<wxl> no, irssi
<bkerensa> you mean Steve Langasek?
<wxl> been meaning to switch to weechat but i dread the set up time :)
<wxl> yes!
<bkerensa> slangasek is in this channel ;) you should have pinged him more
<bkero> wxl: bionx?
<bkerensa> he is a Canonical Dev too ;)
<bkerensa> not just a Debian Packager
<wxl> bkero: electric bike bits from canada
<bkerensa> wxl: slangasek likes beer :D
<wxl> bkerensa: do you think if i just keep mentioning slangasek in every line he'll reply?
<bkero> wxl: Oh, cool. I built my own. Just finished my second.
<bkero> lipo battery packs, lyen controllers, crystalyte motors
<wxl> bkerensa: i know that i could certainly provide slangasek beer for a talk on debian packaging. our lug is full of beer nuts.
<bkerensa> wxl: it is possible
<wxl> bkero: nice. we experimented with our own builds but in the end, the bionx system is pretty amazing. the lack of a front wheel drive kind of sucks, though.
<wxl> oh and also slangasek
<bkerensa> wxl: also bdmurray gives good talks he is the Ubuntu Bug Master
<wxl> i like bdmurray. (slangasek, btw)
<bkero> wxl: Check out flykly
<wxl> bkero: will do. oh, and slangasek
<bkero> I have one of those coming. I'm grumpy because I was part of the second batch which is coming in july/august.
<wxl> bkero: the only thing i don't like is the dependence on the single speed
<bkerensa> wxl: you could also email him ;) vorlon@debian.org
<wxl> bkerensa: i already did that, so i think i'll have to keep mentioning slangasek for him to reply, as you suggested :)
<bkero> wxl: you can always do the front chainring gear selection
<wxl> bkero: come do a talk at our lug in eugene!
<bkerensa> wxl: slangasek@ubuntu.com perhaps?
<bkero> wxl: Eugene LUG, 'eh?
<bkero> Is it Eugene or UofO?
<wxl> bkero: yeah but that's not really significant enough
<wxl> bkero: eug
<bkero> okay
<wxl> a wee bit out of date but http://euglug.org/
<wxl> bkero: i'll get you a ride on the bionx cargo bike :)
<bkero> haha okay
<bkero> wxl: I'll bring the electric skateboard down then.
<wxl> bkero: no way!!!! what deck? show me pics!!!
<sgclark> wow
<sgclark> I wanna see that
<wxl> a member of the lubuntu team has one or is working on one
 * wxl is healing from sprain caused by a skateboard injury
<wxl> â¦so you';re in good company yet again :)
<bkero> wxl: Old sector 9 (Sektor9?) longboard that I had. Turnigy 63mm motor. 6s lipo battery pack.
<wxl> niiiice
<bkero> Using a wireless RC car throttle
<bkero> It's fun
<wxl> what length board? what wheels? reverse trucks?
<bkero> Alien wheels, standard trucks. There's a plate welded to the back truck, and a sprocket and belt that attach the motor to the wheel
<bkero> Here are some good kits: http://diyelectricskateboard.com/
<bkero> http://diyelectricskateboard.com/product/single-motor-electric-longboard-kit/ is likely what you want.
<wxl> wow niiiiice
<wxl> alien workshop or those sunset led ones? :)
<bkero> I have alien workshop
<bkero> They do alright. They're pretty hard.
<wxl> hard for a longboard or hard?
<bkero> Haha, I wouldn't know the diff. :)
<wxl> i think i'm running 80a's on my hybrid deck
<wxl> heheheheh
<bkero> Either way it's fun, and zips me up hills.
<wxl> super rad
<wxl> can't wait to see it :)
<bkero> Is dangerously fast
<bkero> There's no speed limiter, so it'll knock you off and zoom away if you're not careful with the throttle
<bkero> It's cool that you can build one for around $350-400. The weirdest part is finding a way to mount a battery box.
<wxl> bkerensa: does mozilla sync extensions/themes/bookmarks/history across devices?
<bkerensa> yes
<wxl> sessions?
<wxl> i know firefox DEFINITELY handles session management a lot better
<wxl> man does that get me about chrome
<slangasek> hmm
<slangasek> that's a lot of highlights
<wxl> slangasek: yep, all to get you to come talk at our log!
<wxl> um
<wxl> lug
#ubuntu-us-or 2017-06-02
<c_smith> hey there, MarkDude
<c_smith> channel usually is somewhat quiet...
<MarkDude> Hello c_smith
<MarkDude> It can be. Im in Cali now, gonna be in Portland soon
<c_smith> nice!
<MarkDude> Gotta plan local events. Maybe we can do a Geeknic when Im up
<MarkDude> What part of Orygun are ya in?
<c_smith> MarkDude, Salem,
<c_smith> there's a twice-monthly Ubuntu Hour here held at a coffee shop that I started back in 2012 if memory serves
<MarkDude> Cool peeps in Corvalis\
<MarkDude> \\
<c_smith> yep, such as wxl, kinda wish more peeps were able to make it to LFNW, it was fun.
<c_smith> aaanyway, I'd better get to sleep, got work in the morning
<wxl> jeez people start talking and i miss it :(
#ubuntu-us-or 2017-06-04
<DragunovSlayer> hello
