#launchpad-meeting 2008-03-26
 * bigjools is waiting with anticipation
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> welcome everyone to this week's ameu reviewer's meeting
<barry> who's here today?
<bac> me
<sinzui> me
<flacoste> me
<salgado> me
<intellectronica> me
<bigjools> me
<jtv> me
<allenap> me
<barry> gmb sends his apologies
<barry> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<barry> == Agenda ==
<barry>  * Roll call
<barry>  * Next meeting
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Queue status
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry>  * Review process
<barry>     * '''Pre-imp calls are falling by the wayside''' (gmb)
<bigjools> schwuk has a family emergency as you guess you saw
<statik> me (sorry for delay)
<barry> bigjools: i did :(
<barry> [TOPIC] next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  next meeting
<barry> same time and place week += 1 ?
<barry> anybody know they won't be here?
<barry> done
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry>  * gmb to hack review-submit to enforce 800 line limit.
<barry> don't think this was done, so we'll just push it to next week
<barry>  * schwuk to work with mwhudson to get instructions for running loggerhead onto the wiki
<barry> anybody know anything about this one?
<barry> if not, we can just push it to next week too
<sinzui> barry: I do
<barry> sinzui: the floor is yours
<sinzui> barry: sorry, I thought the remark was about why it has not landed
<barry> um, which the 800 line limit one?
<sinzui> mwhudson's loggerhead branch that precipitated the need for instruction about how to run it.
<barry> oh
<barry> sinzui: is this so we can run loggerhead on our dev boxes?
<sinzui> barry: yes. I have not seen the instructions yet.
<barry> sinzui: but there was something about this that didn't land?
<sinzui> barry: never mind me, I'll sit down and shutup
<barry> ok :)
<barry> i guess we'll move on :)
<barry> [TOPIC] queue status
<MootBot> New Topic:  queue status
<barry> i see lots of 1.2.4 branches in the queue and it being week 4 i guess it's good there are no 1.2.3 branches there :)
<barry> we do have 5 pink branches in needs-review, anybody know anything about those?
<barry> (there are 3 pinks that have been merged; i guess PR hasn't been updated for those yet)
<barry> 3 of the unmerged pinks have conflicts
<jtv> PR gets updated a bit less now that it's needed less, I think :)
<barry> 2 are stub's branches, i'm guessing that's just the long running work stuart's been doing
<barry> jtv: yep, i think you're right.  that's a good thing, right? :)
<sinzui> I can take abel's branch from schwuk
<jtv> some good, some bad, like life :)
<barry> we should at least be sure to remove merged branches tho
<barry> sinzui: thanks!
<sinzui> jtv's technique to to remove the branch from his repo and let the lines in PR go red
 * jtv blushes
<barry> flacoste: what's up with leonard's custom-methods-get branch?
<jtv> sinzui: I move them.  I keep directories for "waiting for review," "merging," "merged" etc.
<flacoste> barry: that should have been updated to needs-reply
<flacoste> barry: it would be back in needs-review today
<barry> flacoste: k, thanks
 * barry thinks stub's branches should be moved to wip
<barry> anything else on the queue?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> [TOPIC] mentoring update
<MootBot> New Topic:  mentoring update
<sinzui> I see that only bigjools has signed up for on-call review
<barry> any updates?
<sinzui> I think it should be mandatory.
 * bigjools is going to join Barry for a few hours my PM on Mondays
<barry> yep, thanks bigjools
<bac> allenap has agreed to do on-call reviews but hasn't updated the wiki
<bigjools> I think schwuk signed up but I don't remember who with and when
<allenap> I'm doing it now :)
<bac> we will start next week
<sinzui> I've been allocating branches to mentoree's but the on-call review is the best way to get experience.
<barry> allenap: thanks!
<barry> sinzui: i agree.  how did the oncalls work while i was away?  did we keep up or fall behind?
<sinzui> I think all was well. I had very little work last Friday in fact.
<barry> sinzui: no end of week 3 freak out? :)
<bac> it was pretty busy at the start of the week but tapered...just as it should
<barry> bac: that's great!
<barry> anything else on mentoring?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> [TOPIC] review process
<MootBot> New Topic:  review process
<barry>     * '''Pre-imp calls are falling by the wayside''' (gmb)
<barry> i'll just paste in gmb's comments since he's not here:
<barry>  * '''Pre-imp calls are falling by the wayside''' (gmb). Since we've adopted the on-call review process I've noticed that less and less people (including myself) have been having pre-imp calls before they start work. Partly, I figure that this is because the on-call process allows the developer to talk about their implementation decisions with the reviewer and so helps to substitute for a pre-imp in a lot of ways. However, I've had one
<barry>  branch land this cycle that happily had r= from the reviewer but which, had there been a pre-imp, might not have landed in the form it did (which would have avoided me needing to ask for an RC). Should we be enforcing the requirement to have pre-imp calls, or at least be more scrutinous of those branches that don't?
<bac> scrutinous?
<jtv> bac: works for me.
<bigjools> bac: gmb is making up words again
<bac> i see a lot of branches with no pre-imp
<barry> i've noticed the same thing gmb has noticed
<jtv> We could start by asking why there was none.
<flacoste> we usually have on on the foundations team
<intellectronica> i sometimes think that pre-imp calls are not the right emphasis
<barry> i've been thinking about something similar: any branch that gets a needs-reply represents a flaw in the process
<flacoste> well
<flacoste> hold your horses barry
<barry> maybe one cause is that there wasn't sufficient pre-impl call
<flacoste> there are many needs-reply that aren't serious
<sinzui> I write my notes/pre-imp material like a cover letter and send it to flacoste for discussion.
<intellectronica> what we want is to be 'ready to code', but i've had many cases where there was a pre-imp call, but after starting to work i realised it wasn't actually ready to code
<intellectronica> sinzui: i think that's an /excellent/ idea
<sinzui> intellectronica: the format or sending it to flacoste?
<intellectronica> i should do this more often, and maybe we should even consider establishing this as a process
<flacoste> i can testify that sinzui techinque works very well
<bigjools> I think you can recommend it but make it optional, personally I prefer the phone call
<jtv> Fankly I rarely feel something is ready to code until I've written the codeâin my head if nowhere else.
<flacoste> bigjools: we do have a phone
<barry> sinzui: does this pre-impl letter turn into your review cover letter?
<flacoste> bigjools: after I read the notes
<sinzui> bigjools: My letter is a start of a phone call and sometime gobby
<intellectronica> bigjools: sure, phone call is great, but it's short, and you can easily miss things
<bigjools> woa
<flacoste> actually sinzui is modest here
<bigjools> writing a note is great for some, sure
<bigjools> but it won't always work for me
<flacoste> because his notes often includes high-level version of what will become his tests
<sinzui> barry: the pre-imp letter has tests and rules, the cover letter has implementation detail. Both would read like a spec
<flacoste> bigjools: you should see it as the start of practicing TDD :-)
<barry> very interesting
<bigjools> ha :)
<bigjools> What I tend to do is to write notes during the phone call
<intellectronica> exactly, we do that for specs, but almost never for bugs, but i noticed that when i do that (for specs) the implementation is much more predictable
<bigjools> perhaps a better approach would be to establish a pre-imp template?
<flacoste> an A5!
<barry> a TPS report!
<intellectronica> bigjools: i think that can be useful, like we have for specs
<sinzui> flacoste: we better add inkscape to lp deps then
<jtv> I don't like the idea of a template for pre-imps; that makes you focus too much on what's there, and too little on what makes your branch unique.
<jtv> Could we just "review" the cover letter?
<flacoste> in my book, the template would be very bare
<bigjools> I think it's more to direct the conversation to make sure you don't miss salient points
<jtv> Danilo's been quoting my cover letters in reviews, which is sort of a first step towards reviewing cover letters.
<flacoste> bigjools: the idea of the pre-impl call is to discuss a design, not to come up with one
<jtv> A template that makes sure you don't miss any salient points is likely to look exactly like the review checklist.
<bigjools> Did I say it was?
<barry> flacoste: right
<flacoste> bigjools: no, you didn't
<flacoste> it's just that having on paper the overall plan makes it easier to see if you miss salient points during the convesation
<barry> so, are there any concrete proposals?
<bigjools> maybe the word "template" is wrong, "guidelines" is better
<flacoste> example?
<bigjools> off the top of my head, performance, testing, security, meeting specs
<intellectronica> actually, my best specs, the ones that made it easiest to go ahead with the implementation, mention which files/objects are going to change, how it will be tested, etc'...
<barry> i guess we should move this discussion to the mailing list.  i'm not sure there are any action items here
<bigjools> other than to remind people to have a pre-imp :)
<barry> bigjools: right :)
<barry> [ACTION] barry to remind people to have pre-impl calls
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to remind people to have pre-impl calls
<barry> well, that's it for me.  does anybody have anything not on the agenda?
<barry> 5
<jtv> 4
<barry> 13
<barry> 2
<jtv> bingo!!
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:36.
 * jtv is sunstroked today.  Never mind jtv.
<barry> thanks everyone!
<bigjools> thanks barry
<jtv> barry: thank you!
<statik> tanks barry
#launchpad-meeting 2008-03-27
<kiko> em
<Rinchen> you're a few minutes early ;-)  But I like your spirit!
<Rinchen> I like the userlist on the channel. Much better than last week
<thumper> Rinchen: appologies from mwhudson (holiday)
<Rinchen> roger that....
<Rinchen> well, let's fire it up
<Rinchen> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:00. The chair is Rinchen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Rinchen> Welcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating Launchpad development.
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<bigjools> me
<sinzui> me
<mrevell> me
<Rinchen> me
<kiko> me
<herb> me
<barry> me
<thumper> me
<mpt> me
<mars> me
<al-maisan> me
<adeuring> me
<allenap> me
<Rinchen> apologies from  statik, bac, and mwh
<intellectronica> me
<mthaddon> me
<matsubara> me
<BjornT> me
<kiko> and gmb
<danilos> me
<schwuk> me
<Rinchen> EdwinGrubbs?
<jtv> me
<Rinchen> cprov?
<jtv> carlos?
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<Rinchen> jml?
<abentley> me
<carlos> me
<thumper> Rinchen: no jml
<Rinchen> oh, jml is  asleep that's right
<Rinchen> SteveA?
<flacoste> me
<Rinchen> salgado?
<salgado> me
<Rinchen> nifty
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<Rinchen>  * Next meeting
<Rinchen>  * Actions from last meeting
<Rinchen>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<Rinchen>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<Rinchen>  * Bug tags
<Rinchen>  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb)
<Rinchen>  * DBA report (stub)
<Rinchen>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<Rinchen>  * New packages required (salgado)
<Rinchen>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<Rinchen>  * Doc Team report (mrevell)
<Rinchen> * What environments use zopeless mode and require send_email: true (sinzui)
<Rinchen> * LaunchpadValidationError and HTML escaping (intellectronica, kiko)
<cprov> me
<Rinchen> * Blockers
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting
<Rinchen> we have an action item on this
<Rinchen> kiko - consider changing meeting time after April 6th.
<danilos> translations team is sprinting
<kiko> it's not april 6th yet!
<Rinchen> Just a reminder :-)
<Rinchen> [ACTION] kiko - consider changing meeting time after April 6th.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kiko - consider changing meeting time after April 6th.
<kiko> thanks
<Rinchen> So, next week, same time, same location
<kiko> I love this location
<Rinchen> nice isn't it? :-)
<thumper> could be better
<Rinchen> [AGREED] next week, same time, same location
<MootBot> AGREED received:  next week, same time, same location
<Rinchen> [TOPIC]  Actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:   Actions from last meeting
<Rinchen> matsubara to email thumber the code oops
<danilos> Rinchen: note that jtv, carlos, danilo will be sprinting, perhaps missing the meeting (not necessarily, but very well could be busy next week)
<matsubara> Rinchen: I've assigned thumper to the bug instead
<Rinchen> danilos, we'll find you.  *evil laughter*
<Rinchen> thank matsubara
<danilos> Rinchen: ;)
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Oops report (Matsubara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oops report (Matsubara)
<matsubara> I have only one new oops to report. Filed as bug 207818
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 207818 in malone "Change bug watch form needs better validation when a non-URL is entered" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207818
<matsubara> BjornT, it's a rare occurance (happened only 3 times) but it'd be nice to have it fixed. Is it possible to schedule a fix for the next week 0?
<Rinchen> which is next week
<matsubara> exactly :-)
<BjornT> matsubara: yes, that should be possible.
<matsubara> tomorrow I'll follow up with the teams if there are any new OOPSes after the release
<Rinchen> [AGREED] Bjorn to attempt to schedule bug 207818 for the next week 0
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Bjorn to attempt to schedule bug 207818 for the next week 0
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 207818 in malone "Change bug watch form needs better validation when a non-URL is entered" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207818
<matsubara> btw, oops.cgi is broken and I'm fixing it.
<matsubara> thanks BjornT
<matsubara> apart from that, I'm done. back to you Rinchen
<Rinchen> thanks
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/196936
<Rinchen> abel, how is this going? This is now about three weeks old. Perhaps this should be high and not critical?
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/196936
<Rinchen> adeuring ^^
<adeuring> Rinchen, I'm waiting for the review ...
<kiko> adeuring, waiting for 3 weeks? :)
<adeuring> kiko: well, one week
<Rinchen> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/207490
<Rinchen> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/207494
<Rinchen> allenap, you're working on these as release critical yes? Can we help any way?
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/207490
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/207494
<Rinchen> help IN any way that is
<allenap> Rinchen: intellectronica finished the second one off and they're in PQM afaik.
<Rinchen> allenap, sweet thanks
<Rinchen> adeuring, do you need a reviewer for it? I hear from a good source that salgado is today's on-call reviewer
<adeuring> It is already on Curtis's queue
<kiko> adeuring, why didn't you use on-call?
<kiko> adeuring, it's completely unacceptable for a patch to go for a week with no review
<kiko> and it's not anybody's fault but yours -- you need to find somebody to review it, not idly wait for it to happen
<adeuring> kiko: yes, right...
<kiko> please follow up with an on-call reviewer
<kiko> this was critical..
<adeuring> kiko: OK
<kiko> anyway
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Bug tags
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug tags
<Rinchen> we have two
 * sinzui hangs head in shame for not seeing it
<Rinchen> https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs
<Rinchen> spurious-test-failure by kiko and BjornT
<Rinchen> we skipped this last week since both of you were absent
<kiko> well, look at that -- a candidate :)
<thumper> it's a tad long isn't it?
<kiko> thumper, and?
<kiko> I mean, it's /good/ that it's long
 * thumper shrugs
<Rinchen> what purpose would this solve over simply using the test-system tag?
<kiko> being able to easily find these bugs when we have an occurrence?
<Rinchen> hmm, there are 73 tagged with test-system today
<kiko> that's the main use case
<kiko> I'm not strongly +1 but I think it would help to tie this to a process (search using this URL, and research+file if not, email list,
<Rinchen> so for these they would have 3 tags
<kiko> etc)
<Rinchen> infrastructure, test-system, and spurious-test-failure
<Rinchen> BjornT, matsubara - your input?
<thumper> Rinchen: a spuriour-test-failure might have nothing to do with infrastructure
<kiko> right
<BjornT> Rinchen: i don't think they would automatically have three tags. just because it's a spurious test failure, it doesn't mean that it's infrastructure
<kiko> infrastructure is a pretty useless tag tbh
<Rinchen> thumper, indeed but currently all test-system related failures are tagged with both
<Rinchen> kiko, yeah, I have to agree on that
<flacoste> yeah, not everything is our fault
<Rinchen> kiko, It's rare that something is only tagged as infrastructure
<kiko> flacoste, now I did NOT say that :)
<stub> Just your responsibility :-)
<matsubara> the infrastructure tag is from a time before the foundations team
<kiko> I'm +1 for retiring that silly tag
<flacoste> and change it to foundations?
<kiko> and not have a tag
<kiko> unless you see a purpose in tagging it that way?
<Rinchen> I think the infrastructure tag is too general to serve any purpose these days so +1
<matsubara> -1 in retiring tags unless we have mass tag change in launchpad
<flacoste> yeah, it means that there is some infrastructure design involved
<Rinchen> we'll have to modify 173 bugs though
<kiko> UPDATE bugtags ...
<BjornT> Rinchen: still, if a bug has spurious-test-failure, it's not necessarily to to with testing infrastructure, so test-system might not be valid there
<kiko> agreed
<Rinchen> I see no overwhelming disapproval to the spurious-test-failure failure so
<flacoste> sold
<Rinchen> [AGREED] spurious-test-failure tag approved. Kiko to update the tagging bug page
<MootBot> AGREED received:  spurious-test-failure tag approved. Kiko to update the tagging bug page
<Rinchen> is there a consensus on retiring infrastructure?
<Rinchen> anyone against it?
<Rinchen> and who will update those 173 bugs
<kiko> does it serve /any/ use?
 * Rinchen looks at kiko.
 * SteveA belatedly says "me"
<Rinchen> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/145746
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145746 in launchpad "Upgrade to zope 3.3.1" [High,Triaged]
 * thumper looks at SteveA agreeing to update 173 bugs
<Rinchen> there are some valid uses for Francis perhaps
<kiko> yes, let's not kill him today
<kiko> that tag, OTOH
<Rinchen> flacoste, what's your opinion since this is in your area
<BjornT> do have to remove the tag, just because we retire it? why not just let it fade way?
<kiko> we can also let it fade away
<kiko> I just don't see any use in advertising it
<Rinchen> yes, what kiko said
<Rinchen> anyone against this?
<flacoste> Rinchen: hmm
<Rinchen> flacoste, matsubara ?
<flacoste> i think i am against
<flacoste> yeah, i think it does has a purpose
<flacoste> it collects information on infrastructure need we have
<kiko> when have you used it?
<Rinchen> the zope item above
<flacoste> in planning before 2.0
<Rinchen> it's one of the few bugs I see that are infrastructure only
 * kiko shrugs
<matsubara> I find it useful, specially to address things that should be foundations responsability :-)
<flacoste> Rinchen: infrastructure to me means any library-level stuff we need, not necessarily external infrastructure
<kiko> ok, never mind then
<Rinchen> matsubara, isn't that the ENTIRE launchpad product? ;-)
<flacoste> matsubara: kiko's view is what Rinchen just said
<Rinchen> [AGREED] we will not retire the infrastructure tag just yet.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  we will not retire the infrastructure tag just yet.
<Rinchen> ok, the OTHER bug tag
<flacoste> but not everything in the launchpad product infrastructure though
<kiko> so much controversy!!!
<Rinchen> mpt would like to retire the UI tag
<flacoste> so the need for the tag
<flacoste> i'm -1 on that
<kiko> why?
<thumper> how should we tag ui bugs then?
<mpt> The "ui" tag was defined as "A bug that suggests the user interface is confusing or otherwise difficult to use"
<BjornT> looking at the bugs currently tagged with infrastructure, i'd say most of them shouldn't have that tag
<flacoste> right
<mpt> But for whatever reason, people haven't used it that way
<matsubara> yeah, -1 on that unless we can come up with other tags to replace it
<flacoste> mpt: given that sense, it's not useful
<kiko> flacoste, so you want to keep that tag? fine -- clean up your bugs :)
<mpt> They've used it to refer to any bug that touches the UI
<flacoste> mpt: right
<mpt> which is about 1/2 of them :-)
<kiko> mpt, right. so why not add a new one called confusing-interface
<kiko> or something like that?
<thumper> mpt: I tend to use it to refer to bugs that are purely ui related
 * flacoste too
 * Rinchen three
<mpt> The other reason is that I don't think anyone actually uses it.
 * thumper uses it
<matsubara> I don
<matsubara> I do
<matsubara> well, I tag those
<mpt> I don't mean uses it as in adds it
<mpt> I mean actually uses it as in filters on it.
<matsubara> but they'd be more useful when bug #176437, is fixed
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176437 in malone "Conditional searching with tags" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176437
<Rinchen> I actually use it when I look at your workload mpt :-)
<mpt> And I don't think that would change even if we changed its meaning.
<Rinchen> it is nice to have a list of all UI based issues
<mpt> Rinchen, many of the bugs tagged with UI are bugs I can't fix
<Rinchen> that is true
<Rinchen> many of those require help from Foundations
<thumper> I like the idea of a confusing-user-interface tag (confusing-interface could refer to zope)
<kiko> thumper, :)
<mpt> I don't think it's useful to have a tag that could be applied to ~1/2 of all bug reports.
<thumper> lol
<abentley> thumper: Wouldn't confusing-framework refer to Zope?
<Rinchen> I admit I would rather have a tag for accessibility/usability issues rather than a generic UI tag
<Rinchen> I don't care if something is confusing or not, really.
<mpt> Who would use (as in filter on) a tag for accessibility/usability issues?
<Rinchen> we could use it to further identify bugs that needed to be addressed as part of the usability study for example
<Rinchen> I would very much like to address those findings
<thumper> I don't think that the sole use for a tag is to filter on them
<mpt> They're listed on the wiki page
<thumper> I look at the tags of a bug without filtering on them
<mpt> and I think one or two of them have been fixed
<mpt> I remind people of them in each State of Launchpad Usability report, but I'm not sure a tag would help
<Rinchen> just my personal preference. I'm not attached to it either way
<Rinchen> So thumper, matsubara, flacoste  - you expressed concern retiring UI
<thumper> if we are going to retire ui, I'd like a tag to refer to UI only bugs
<Rinchen> or we could simply amend the UI tag's description
<kiko> -1 on retiring, based on this discussion, and +1 for confusing-ui
<thumper> as in bugs that can be fixed with browser/template code only
<kiko> +1 for amending the description of the ui
<mpt> thumper, what counts as "UI only"? Template only? Template + browser code only? Template + browser + interface code only?
<flacoste> template+browser
<thumper> mpt: that's the discression of the bug triager
<Rinchen> flacoste, thumper, matsubara -  looking for +1 or -1 on the proposals from you
<flacoste> flacoste: like kiko said
<flacoste> Rinchen: ^^^
<thumper> -1 on retiring ui, +1 on ammending description of it
<matsubara> Rinchen: <matsubara> yeah, -1 on that unless we can come up with other tags to replace it
<thumper> +1 on confusing-ui
<Rinchen> ok, then
<thumper> mpt: less than half our team bugs are confusing-ui
<Rinchen> [AGREED] will not retire the UI tag but amend it's description
<MootBot> AGREED received:  will not retire the UI tag but amend it's description
<Rinchen> [AGREED] create a new tag called confusing-ui to take the place of the original intent of the UI tag
<MootBot> AGREED received:  create a new tag called confusing-ui to take the place of the original intent of the UI tag
<Rinchen> mpt, would you be so kind as to make those changes to the bug triage wiki page?
<mpt> What should the new definition of "ui" be?
<kiko> bugs with an ugly face
<mpt> ok
<Rinchen> mpt, be creative.
<Rinchen> thank you mpt
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon/herb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Operations report (mthaddon/herb)
<herb> 3/24 - Librarian restarted due to memory usage causing swapping on mizuho
<herb> 3/25 - Codebrowse restarted due to memory usage causing swapping on vostok
<herb> 3/26 - Codebrowse restarted due to process using 84% of system memory.
<herb> Staging will be updated after the items that are currently in the queue.
<herb> Production update targeted for 00:00 UTC.
<Rinchen> herb, mthaddon - please don't forget to update the news blogs maint page.  I tweaked it yesterday but please ensure it's the right time.
<herb> that's it from Tom and I unless there are questions.
<Rinchen> herb, if you need access to it, ping me after the meeting.
<herb> Rinchen: will do
<Rinchen> thanks
<Rinchen> kiko, what's the story with the librarian leak?
<Rinchen> kiko, I know you were looking into that with spiv
<kiko> Rinchen, we are stumped. mthaddon patched the librarian and re-ran it and no change. :-(
<Rinchen> fooey
<mpt> wiki updated.
<kiko> Rinchen, I don't have the cycles to chase this myself but can help somebody who can
<Rinchen> wonder if we can setup an instance locally and valgrind it
<kiko> i.e. flacoste who loves libby
<kiko> it's not a valgrind issue
<kiko> that's a crazy suggestion
<Rinchen> I'm a crazy guy :-)
<kiko> it's just a matter of doing some python investigation
<Rinchen> mpt thanks
<kiko> flacoste <3 libby
<kiko> ...
<flacoste> kiko: yeah, i could it a shot
<Rinchen> right then, thanks
<kiko> flacoste, do you know the history behind this?
<flacoste> kiko: vaguely, we can discuss this later
<kiko> yes, please call me
<Rinchen> [ACTION] flacoste to take a stab at the librarian issues next week
<MootBot> ACTION received:  flacoste to take a stab at the librarian issues next week
<Rinchen> thanks flacoste
<flacoste> kiko, i'll call you tomorrow
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  DBA report (stub)
<stub> Nothing to report.
<kiko> sure thing
<Rinchen> 2nd week in a row there stub
<Rinchen> Anything for stub?
<kiko> stub, what's going on with the PAS stuff?
<stub> Should be thankfull - we are getting to overtime :-)
<kiko> person-auth-split IYDKWIM
<stub> Jamesh threw some spammers into the works so I've got three designs now.
<kiko> wow, really?
<stub> Stuff that needs to be in the auth database and the lp database
<kiko> grumble
<kiko> stub, what's the next step?
<stub> Think hard about them, write opinions for and against and get feedback.
<kiko> stub, you want to schedule that?
<stub> I've got the spec scheduled for this next cycle
<stub> erm... 1.2.4
<kiko> stub, meaning just the spec, or impl starting too?
<stub> Hopefully both.
<kiko> okay, good. let's catch up again next week, week zero!
<stub> Just stop throwing spanners at me
<Rinchen> thanks stub
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<kiko> the spammers are throwing themselves at us :-/
<kiko> (Rinchen, do we need to remind people that we are in "ubuntu freeze"?)
<Rinchen> Hi! Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent? I'm tracking 1 overdue for Julian, 1 overdue for me, 1 for IS (apache), and 1 for kiko.  The IS one is the only one making any progress.
<kiko> the security apache thingy is important
<bigjools> kiko asked me to mention the one for mail capture on dogfood
<Rinchen> that's the one I have :-)
<bigjools> cool
<Rinchen> So I apologize that I've not been able to move these others along.
<Rinchen> Scheduling with IS has been difficult lately
<kiko> it's release month, understandable
<Rinchen> as always, lots of stuff on their plate
<Rinchen> indeed
<Rinchen> kiko,  I wasn't going to remind folks about stable... I think everyone knows.  It doesn't seem to make much difference anyway since you, me, and Steve approve cherries
<Rinchen> and we know
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] New packages required (salgado)
<MootBot> New Topic:  New packages required (salgado)
<SteveA> hold your horses, we're in stable
<kiko> Rinchen, it's not just cherry-picks
<kiko> it's also edge landings.
<salgado> if any of the branches you're working on right now  depends on any library which is not part of the launchpad-dependencies package, come talk to me ASAP.
<kiko> be specially careful about what you land
<stub> I think pytz should end up in lp-dep
<stub> And lost from sourcecode
<kiko> because if it annoys ubuntu, it will really annoy me
<adeuring> salgado: I will need  the lexml2-utils package soon
<kiko> stub, are we no longer updating it?
<SteveA> stub: once we move servers to hardy?
<salgado> adeuring, you've filed the bug already?
<stub> kiko: There is no need to keep it updated if we use the Ubuntu one, as it uses the system libraries
<adeuring> salgado: yes
<stub> SteveA: sure
<salgado> adeuring, can you define soon in the bug?
<adeuring> salgado: I'll add a comment
<Rinchen> salgado, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/81082
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 81082 in launchpad-dependencies ""Australia/Perth" time zone needs updating" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Rinchen> Anything else for salgado?
<Rinchen> no on-time ending for us today
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<MootBot> New Topic:  A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<mrevell> This week's issue is pertinent to a week in which we're making a release :)
<mrevell> Throughout the month, we add new/changed functionality to Edge but we don't announce what the changes are. This prompted a question on launchpad-users a couple of days ago.
<mrevell> Edge is clearly marked as a beta environment. However, I wonder if:
<mrevell> a) there's an easy way (i.e. largely automated) to show beta testers what's changed over night on Edge
<mrevell> b) if that's something we would want to put time into, as we clearly mark Edge as beta and people know that it's a rapidly changing environment.
<mrevell> Cheers.
<intellectronica> perhaps we could have an edge blog, where we add a couple of words for every new feature that makes it there?
<kiko> well
<kiko> the way I'd do that is somehow do a daily transport of commits to news
<barry> mrevell: what about a feed of the subjects of pqm landings that don't have !log?
<Rinchen> we could strip [!log] from arch commits at the moment and just update that daily
<kiko> which could then be used as the user-visible part of our release notes later, so it's not waster work.
<kiko> Rinchen, barry: not really user-consumable
<stub> How many people would genuinely read more information about LP developments?
<mrevell> kiko: Yeah, so distribute the release notes work throughout the cycle.
<kiko> right
<kiko> do it daily -- it's only like 1-5 entries a day anyway
<Rinchen> mrevell, we could have a separate blog category about it
<Rinchen> mrevell, something that doesn't post to the Planet
<mrevell> Yeah. My only concern is vacation time, but I think we can cover that int he usual ways
<barry> kiko: yeah, we'd have to be more careful about that
<kiko> mrevell, I can cover for you if you like. I sometimes know how to write.
<mrevell> Rinchen: Hmm, that might be trickier but I'm sure we could do it.
<mrevell> kiko: Heh :) You certainly do.
<Rinchen> kiko, it's a lot of work to do it by hand
<kiko> Rinchen, it's the same work as mrevell puts into the announcement?
<kiko> except spread out
<Rinchen> yeah, the scripts don't take long to run
<Rinchen> but mrevell has other commitments on week 2
<Rinchen> mrevell, have we proposed this on -users or a users meeting?
<Rinchen> I agree it's a good thing to do but I'd rather consider it by hand after we dogfood
<mrevell> Rinchen: No, not yet. I wanted to float the idea here  first
<Rinchen> er
<Rinchen> I'd rather not consider doing it mostly by hand
<Rinchen> and wait until we dogfood which is coming
<mrevell> Cool, let's discuss it further another time.
 * Rinchen looks at thumper 
<kiko> dogfood?
<kiko> huh?
<Rinchen> kiko, RF on LP
<kiko> Rinchen, the commit messages will not be user-consumable, so that's irrelevant
<kiko> there needs to be manual work done
<kiko> and we already do the manual work anyway when producing the monthly report
<Rinchen> yes, that's true
<thumper> Rinchen: it won't make any difference to the uses as the brance will be private
<kiko> now
<thumper> Rinchen: until we release the source anyway
<kiko> it doesn't have to be matt r. that does it
<kiko> but that would involve team leads wanting to take that job on
 * thumper has typo spelling mistakes when tired
 * flacoste makes long-convulated sentences.
<Rinchen> hmm, ok.  mrevell, please gauge the community's interest in this.
<flacoste> with lots of made-up words!
<mrevell> Rinchen: Will do.
<stub> I think it would be good if we could determine who our audience is for these missives.
<Rinchen> if there is enough then I'll move forward with this with you
<SteveA> there is a benefit to us
<SteveA> which is, beta testers can be directed at things that have changed
<SteveA> to check them out, if they feel minded to do so
<Rinchen> and this then draws attention to new items which would get good qa
<thumper> mrevell: what about the announcements on the launchpad product for this?
<kiko> yeah, I think the same as SteveA
<Rinchen> thumper, I was thinking about that too as an avenue
<mrevell> thumper: Yeah, that's a good idea. So long as it was clearly marked as affecting edge
<Rinchen> I can digest a weekly effort but I'm having a difficult time with a daily one by hand given the large amount of workload mrevell has.
<Rinchen> anyway, I'm calling time and moving on
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Doc Team report (mrevell)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Doc Team report (mrevell)
<mrevell> Hey - not much to report in DocsWorld this week, while I've been working on the release announcements etc. I've prepared some documentation updates ready for the release and some blog posts that'll go live tomorrow, again for the release.
<Rinchen> thanks
<mrevell> Thanks again to people who've provided feedback on docs posted to the list.
<mrevell> Cheers
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] What environments use zopeless mode and require send_email: true (sinzui)
<MootBot> New Topic:  What environments use zopeless mode and require send_email: true (sinzui)
 * thumper doesn't like the term zopeless
<kiko> agreed
<kiko> but anyway
<thumper> bazaar-staging needs to send email
<sinzui> My question might be better stated is that I think we have cargo-culted the value to True in many places.
<kiko> curtis and I yesterday put a best effort into figuring out what instances and processes needed email disabled
<sinzui> thumper: noted
<kiko> meaning that zopeless processes using that config should be stopped from sending email
<SteveA> can we not just log if something sends email
<kiko> sinzui, remind us what we decided to go with?
<SteveA> then inspect the logs
<SteveA> st jude style
<kiko> SteveA, no clue, but there's no time for that
<kiko> it could have been done weeks ago, but not 5h before the rollout!
<sinzui> We have enabled send_email to true in all environments (per the old confs) except for default, testrunner, bazaar-staging, and ...
<stub> process-email should be it on forster, shouldn't it?
<sinzui> dogfood
<kiko> default meaning devel for clueless people like me. testrunner inherits it.
<stub> Maybe the probers to annoy mirror owners?
<kiko> bazaar-staging and dogfood had it disabled as well, though there is an argument that we should instead configure those boxes to redirect smtp traffic.
<sinzui> kiko: right. there is nothing default about default.
<kiko> :)
<Rinchen> thumper, shouldn't bazaar-staging go to the staging mailbox?
<kiko> Rinchen, it's not the same server.
<thumper> Rinchen: yes, probably
<stub> oh - rosetta imports and maybe exports spam users
<kiko> thumper, if you agree, please file an RT ticket and give the number to Rinchen
<thumper> can it?
<kiko> so, if you know of a place where we should NOT send email from zopeless scripts please warn us.
<flacoste> thumper: if bazaar-staging is running on staging, it already does
<sinzui> What environment is rosseta imports?
<kiko> flacoste, it doesn't.
<kiko> stub, well, where would those be at risk?
<kiko> what I mean is, on what instance would rosetta imports or the mirror prober run where we would /not/ want to send out email?
<flacoste> then bazaar-staging should have send_email False for now
<stub> sinzui: zopeless scripts run from cron
<kiko> staging, yes, but staging has an auto-smtp-redirect.
<kiko> flacoste, that's the way it is.
<kiko> stub, see my statement above.
<stub> kiko: I think there is already a command line option to the mirror prober to send out or not send out email
<flacoste> kiko: i know, but thumper asked sinzui to change that
<sinzui> stub: but what conf file? if it is run on forester, I assume production,
<kiko> flacoste, I think he didn't -- he just didn't understand it was staging at that point :)
<stub> kiko: I can't think of any cases where we need to disable rosettas email without needing to disable the imports entirely
<stub> sinzui: Yes (Tom?)
<kiko> stub, agreed -- except on staging, during testing, where as I said, it's irrelevant.
<thumper> I kind of assumed that the email sent from bazaar-staging would go to the staging email box
<kiko> thumper, it's not on the same server
<thumper> if it takes a while to set that up, then we should set it to False for now
<kiko> so it won't
<kiko> right
<kiko> anyone else?
<thumper> kiko: yeah, but I didn't know that it wouldn't work
<kiko> thumper, well, there's no magic -- special smtp config needs to be done. :)
 * flacoste sees that notifications from bazaar-staging were tested properly...
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] LaunchpadValidationError and HTML escaping (intellectronica, kiko)
<MootBot> New Topic:  LaunchpadValidationError and HTML escaping (intellectronica, kiko)
<kiko> sinzui, looks good to me -- and I replied to your email about the key discrepancies, pointing out ones I found suspicious. nothing there is critical IMO.
<kiko> okay
<sinzui> kiko: thanks. I'll loook at my mail
<kiko> what do people think about doing escape of LVE strings to avoid callsites needing to remember to do it?
<kiko> we could do something similar to what mars did
<kiko> for our web notifs
<kiko> i.e. supply structured where desired, otherwise, escape
<kiko> what think you?
<stub> I liked that pattern
<flacoste> +1
<intellectronica> that, of course, means not escaping when the input is wrapped in structured, and going over all existing places and converting them, since some of them feed HTML in
<barry> +1, with structured
<intellectronica> +1
<kiko> I'm +1 too
<kiko> okay thanks
<kiko> please keep in mind this is currently an issue
<SteveA> I don't care about seeing some spurious < and > in the HTML for a while
<kiko> right
<SteveA> that's a small usability problem we can progressively fix
<intellectronica> and many should be caught by tests anyway
<kiko> flacoste, mars: can you guys file a bug?
<SteveA> so, add escaping now :)
<kiko> yeah, totally
<SteveA> thanks for bringing this up
<mars> kiko, sure
<kiko> thanks
<Rinchen> [AGREED] we should try to avoid callsites by escaping LVE strings - supply structured where desired, otherwise, escape
<MootBot> AGREED received:  we should try to avoid callsites by escaping LVE strings - supply structured where desired, otherwise, escape
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Blockers
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blockers
<Rinchen> Releases Team: Not blocked.
<thumper> Code: not blocked
<BjornT> Bugs: not blocked
<bigjools> Soyuz: blocked on RT as discussed
<flacoste> Foundations: not blocked
<jtv> Translations: not blocked
<kiko> flacoste, well, sinzui depends on answers to that email.
<Rinchen> EdwinGrubbs, bigjools, SteveA ?
<kiko> so kinda blockeraged
<bigjools> Rinchen: ?
<Rinchen> ah sorry
<Rinchen> I'm blind
<kiko> bigjools, Rinchen fat-fingered it
<flacoste> kiko: internal blockage doesn't count :-)
<adeuring> hwdb: not blocked (exception: the lxml review...)
<flacoste> kiko: and i'm replying now
<bigjools> flacoste: ewww
<EdwinGrubbs> LPComm: blocked on staging to test revision 5968 and staging is waiting on pqm to finish
<kiko> adeuring, yeah, you get on a reviewer and make him UNDERSTAND THE THREAT :)
<Rinchen> (the threat being kiko)
<Rinchen> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Developer Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.
<Rinchen> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 20:13.
<mrevell> thanks all!
<mpt> Marathon!
<Rinchen> indeed
<intellectronica> thanks Rinchen
<mpt> thanks Rinchen
<intellectronica> today we got 66% extra!
<Rinchen> for free!
<kiko> intellectronica, for the same price too
<kiko> amazing
<kiko> these americans really know how to market stuff
 * bigjools now rushes off to put the kids to bed
* Rinchen changed the topic of #launchpad-meeting to:  Launchpad Meeting Grounds | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Meeting Logs: http://blackbird.kaarsemaker.net/mootbot/meeting/
#launchpad-meeting 2009-03-23
<barry_> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:18. The chair is barry_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:18.
#launchpad-meeting 2009-03-25
 * sinzui looks around
<allenap> Hello sinzui!
<bac> did we not decide to take the next two weeks off
<sinzui> I don't know. I have not had enough coffee to become sentient
<flacoste> me
<abentley> It is on the calendar.  I've missed a bunch due to sprints and time off.
<flacoste> hmm
<flacoste> actually, we don't have one today!
<flacoste> as barry is on a train
<intellectronica> according to the logs, it's cancelled
<flacoste> right
<sinzui> Since I have some many rocket scientists attention. Will anyone give me the approval to change all
<sinzui>     from canonical.launchpad.interfaces import
<sinzui> to
<sinzui>     from canonical.launchpad.interfaces.<module> import
<sinzui> I think that will make the apocalypse come quicker
<intellectronica> sinzui: in tests i prefer the former
<intellectronica> doctests, that is
<sinzui> intellectronica: Thanks for bring that up. the code I wrote only changes .py files.
<intellectronica> sinzui: i think it will be awesome if you change that in all python modules
<sinzui> I hope it will prevent the cyclic import hell I am seeing in the registry migration
#launchpad-meeting 2009-03-26
<bigjools> moi
<flacoste> me
<intellectronica> me
<Ursinha> erm
<Ursinha> #startmeeting
<Ursinha> Welcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is Ursinha.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<bigjools> me
<Ursinha> Not on the Launchpad Dev team? Welcome! Come "me" with the rest of us!
<flacoste> me
<sinzui> me
<henninge> me
<Ursinha> me :)
<rockstar> me
<Ursinha> herb: hi
<rockstar> I wish someone not on the dev team would "me"
<Ursinha> rockstar: me too
<Ursinha> anyway :)
<intellectronica> rockstar, Ursinha: you can get that, but it requires /a lot/ of herding
<Ursinha> herb: are you there by chance? :)
<Ursinha> intellectronica: indeed
<Ursinha> so here is stub
<Ursinha> only herb missing
<herb> me
<herb> sorry
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> hi herb!
<Ursinha> moving on :)
<herb> hi
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Agenda * Actions from last meeting * Oops report & Critical Bugs  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm) * DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda * Actions from last meeting * Oops report & Critical Bugs  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm) * DBA report (stub)
<Ursinha> argh
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting
<Ursinha> â¢ sinzui to request CP for bugs 341085 and 341117
<Ursinha> â¢ ursinha to talk to allenap/bjornt about a bug marked as won't fix, but had another OOPS occurrence: bug 341766 - done
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Actions from last meeting
<ubottu> Bug 341085 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/341085 is private
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 341766 in malone "AttributeError OOPS when receiving data from apport on +filebug" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/341766
<Ursinha> â¢ ursinha to debug 340058 and write the results back to the report - done
<Ursinha> â¢ bigjools to chase kiko or flacoste to approve CPs. matsubara to remind him about it :-)
<Ursinha> my items are done
<bigjools> done
<sinzui> Ursinha: Done
<Ursinha> awesome!
<Ursinha> next
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<Ursinha> intellectronica, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/329908
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<Ursinha> rockstar, as we previously talked, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/328302
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 329908 in malone "DownloadFailed OOPS when reporting a bug with apport" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Error: This bug is private
<Ursinha> is it?
 * Ursinha looks again
 * rockstar doesn't think that's the right bug...
<intellectronica> Ursinha: no news about this one yet :(
<rockstar> Ursinha, yeah, it's private because it has query info
<Ursinha> bug 328302
<ubottu> Bug 328302 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/328302 is private
<Ursinha> it's this one
<Ursinha> rockstar: I told you about that a few mins ago :)
<rockstar> Ursinha, yeah, and it looks like it's In Progress.
<Ursinha> intellectronica: that bug is happening like everyday
<Ursinha> rockstar: I brought it here because you didn't comment on that
<Ursinha> rockstar: at -code, that is
<rockstar> Ursinha, I have nothing to comment on.  Looks like thumper is working on it.
<Ursinha> rockstar: so as I presumed, you know as much about that as I do
<rockstar> Ursinha, unfortunately, due to illness and travelling, I've been a bit out of touch.
<intellectronica> Ursinha: shit. ok, i'll try to tackle it soon
<Ursinha> rockstar: no problem :) just brought to attention to see if you had some info that I (neither the bug report) would have
<Ursinha> intellectronica: thanks for that
<Ursinha> [action] intellectronica to make efforts to take a look at bug 329908
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 329908 in malone "DownloadFailed OOPS when reporting a bug with apport" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/329908
<MootBot> ACTION received:  intellectronica to make efforts to take a look at bug 329908
<Ursinha> :)
<intellectronica> :)
<Ursinha> about the code bug, I'll catch up with thumper later, if the status doesn't change
<Ursinha> thanks intellectronica and rockstar
<rockstar> Ursinha, he commented and said he had a fix for it.
<rockstar> Takes the query down to 3s instead of 17s.
<Ursinha> rockstar: I saw that.
<Ursinha> thanks
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> all critical bugs are fix committed, yay!
<Ursinha> that's all for me in oops/bugs section
<Ursinha> next
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<herb> 2009-03-20 - CP r7866 and r7900 to production.
<herb> Sounding like a broken record, bug 156453 and bug 118625 continue to be a problem.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 156453 in loggerhead "production loggerhead branch leaks memory" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 118625 in launchpad-bazaar "codebrowse sometimes hangs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/118625
<herb> There have been some problems with staging updates this week. Seem to be mostly DB related and resolved now. There is a staging update running now.
<herb> sinzui has a couple of cherry pick requests pending approval.
<herb> Other than that it's been a quiet week. Unless there are any questions, that's it from the LOSAs unless there are questions.
<rockstar> herb, we may actually have an answer for you next week!  :)
 * sinzui will speak with kiko.
<herb> rockstar: that is exciting news
<Ursinha> sinzui: those are the ones of the actions from last meeting?
<sinzui> I'm not certain those items are worthy of a CP
<rockstar> herb, mwhudson and I are going to be hacking together on this soon.
<Ursinha> [action] sinzui to talk to kiko about pending cp requests
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sinzui to talk to kiko about pending cp requests
<sinzui> hence those bugs were high
<Ursinha> sinzui: hm, I see
<Ursinha> sinzui: are you going to sort out with kiko?
<sinzui> I'll get his opinion
<Ursinha> rockstar: that's cool
<Ursinha> right sinzui, thanks
<Ursinha> anything else for herb?
<Ursinha> that sounds a no :)
<Ursinha> thanks herb
<herb> thanks Ursinha
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * DBA report (stub)
<stub> If you see 'database in recovery mode', it means part of PostgreSQL has crashed. We have seen it this week on staging and twice with buildbot. We don't know the trigger yet. PostgreSQL will recover, but our code might not. When it happened on staging, it looks like the staging appserver didn't reconnect fully and needed to be manually restarted.
<stub> If anyone has statement logging on and triggers the bug, I'l like your log files.
<stub> I'll abuse an ec2 instance tomorrow in an attempt to trigger the bug and try to get a pointer to the trigger.
<stub> A new PostgreSQL update came through today which contains some crash fixes. With luck, we will upgrade and the problem will never be seen again.
<stub> All the bugs I can find in the updated database maintenance tools have been fixed, so staging updates should work fine now (barring the PostgreSQL crash).
<stub> Some bigish DB changes are part of the next rollout. We are now maintaining two slaves so the maintenance tools needed to be updated to cope. We have also split our single replication set into two now as part of keeping the SSO service running during Launchpad outages. With luck, nobody will notice and things will continue to run smoothly.
<stub> I'm done
<Ursinha> hm.
<Ursinha> anyone has questions for stub?
<Ursinha> stub: that happened only on staging, right?
<stub> Crash on staging and twice on ec2 with buildbot
<Ursinha> this explain "some" weird oopses
<Ursinha> hm, thanks stub
<Ursinha> anyone else wants to say something?
<Ursinha> 3
<Ursinha> 2
<Ursinha> 1
<Ursinha> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.
<Ursinha> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:18.
<Ursinha> that was fast
<Ursinha> thanks everyone
<bigjools> ciao
<Ursinha> see you next week
<Ursinha> bigjools: falou
<Ursinha> :P
<bigjools> Ursinha: what did you just call me?
<Ursinha> bigjools: lol
<bigjools> you're responsible for at least half of the pt_br swearing I know :)
<Ursinha> bigjools: that's an informal way to say bye
<Ursinha> lol!
<Ursinha> you shouldn't say that in public, I'm a lady
<Ursinha> ha-ha
 * bigjools grins
<Ursinha> bigjools: falou is the same as see ya
<Ursinha> matsubara: you're late man
<Ursinha> :P
<matsubara> hi there
<Ursinha> kidding :)
<bigjools> Ursinha:right!
<Ursinha> matsubara: the meeting has just finished :)
<matsubara> well, I told you yesterday I might not show up
<bigjools> Ursinha: is it time for some swearing aimed at matsubara? :)
<Ursinha> matsubara:  <           Ursinha > kidding :)
<matsubara> gladly you're a superstart woman and took care of everything
<Ursinha> matsubara: lol
<Ursinha> bigjools: he's a nice guy, don't do that
<matsubara> bigjools: i know you've been saving some of your portuguese to use in special occasions like this
<bigjools> lol
<bigjools> you guys taught me all I know
<Ursinha> bigjools: go QA!
<Ursinha> :P
<Ursinha> qa team is awesome :P
<matsubara> :-)
<bigjools> va se f...
<matsubara> haha
<Ursinha> hahahahaha!
<Ursinha> rofl
 * bigjools cranks up Metallica and goes back to ninja coding mode
<Ursinha> metallica rocks
<bigjools> they are touring the UK
<bigjools> I missed them :(
<Ursinha> bigjools: there are rumours that they could come to brazil this year
<Ursinha> that would be supa-awesome
<bigjools> for you!
<Ursinha> lol
<Ursinha> bigjools: why did you miss them?
<bigjools> Ursinha: because I get worked like a camel my kiko
<bigjools> by*
<Ursinha> ohh
<Ursinha> that's bad
<bigjools> :)
<Ursinha> :)
<bigjools> well, I didn't keep up with the news, that's all
<Ursinha> bigjools: man, that would hurt if it was me :/
<Ursinha> I already cry when I miss a *cover* band
<Ursinha> imagine missing the original band
 * Ursinha realizes she's not helping
<bigjools> yep
<bigjools> thanks for your support :)
<Ursinha> lol
<Ursinha> sorry
#launchpad-meeting 2010-03-31
<bac> hi everyone.  just a reminder there is no reviewers meeting today.  carry on.
 * henninge carries on
<bac> hi henninge
<henninge> Hi bac! ;)
<bac> hey henning would you be interested in switching your on-call day to tuesday to cover for gmb's temporary absence?
<bac> it looks like your current day has two reviewers in the euro slot
<henninge> bac: np at all
<bac> sweet!
<henninge> bac: it does, yes.
<bac> i'll update the wiki and you can start on tuesday next week.
<bac> recall, however, i'm the US reviewer that day, so you'll have to put up with me
 * henninge will have to remember ...
<henninge> bac: that will be a pleasure! ;)
<henninge> Why is gmb absent?
 * henninge must have missed something
<bac> henninge: gmb is taking a sabbatical for one or two cycles from reviewing
<henninge> oic
#launchpad-meeting 2010-04-01
<Ursinha> #startmeeting
<Ursinha> Welcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is Ursinha.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<Ursinha> Not on the Launchpad Dev team? Welcome! Come "me" with the rest of us!
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<gary_poster> me
<sinzui> me
<allenap> me
<Ursinha> me
<rockstar> me
<chex> me
<Ursinha> awesome
<Ursinha> bigjools is missing
<Ursinha> matsubara, hello buddy
<Ursinha> I asked al-maisan if he can join us in behalf of soyuz
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Agenda
<Ursinha>  * Actions from last meeting
<Ursinha>  * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<Ursinha>  * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<Ursinha>  * DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<Ursinha>  * QA stats of the week
<Ursinha>  * Proposed items
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Actions from last meeting
<Ursinha>  * Ursinha to send email to TLs about QA summaries
<Ursinha>    * I haven't, I suck. Will do that before my EOD
<Ursinha>  * matsubara to triage open oops-tools bugs
<Ursinha>  * sinzui to follow up in work with losas to set the increase threshold for the product release finder monitoring script
<Ursinha>  * allenap to discuss with deryck about OOPS-1544A949 and file a bug for OOPS-1545E465.
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1544A949
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1545E465
<Ursinha>    * OOPS-1544A949 is really bug 433995 <https://launchpad.net/bugs/433995>.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 433995 in malone "Cannot edit importance, status or assignee after changing project inline" [High,Triaged]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433995 in malone "Cannot edit importance, status or assignee after changing project inline" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433995
<Ursinha>    * Bug 547063 <https://launchpad.net/bugs/547063> has been filed for OOPS-1545E465.
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1544A949
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 547063 in malone "None isn't acceptable as a value for BugActivity.person" [High,In progress]
<Ursinha>  * matsubara to fix linked bug for OOPS-1545E465
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 547063 in malone "None isn't acceptable as a value for BugActivity.person" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/547063
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1545E465
<Ursinha>     * done.
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1545E465
<Ursinha>  * gary_poster to discuss OOPS-1541O1653 with salgado and file a bug for it.
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1541O1653
<Ursinha>     * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-foundations/+bug/547054
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 547054 in launchpad-foundations "AssertionError: Don't try to render this page when the user is logged in." [High,Fix committed]
<Ursinha>  * matsubara to email stub asking the dba report
<Ursinha>     * done.
<Ursinha> matsubara, what about yours?
<matsubara> not done the triage, please re-add
<Ursinha> yes sir
<matsubara> I think I fixed the linke bug for that oops
<Ursinha> [action]  matsubara to triage open oops-tools bugs
<MootBot> ACTION received:   matsubara to triage open oops-tools bugs
<Ursinha> matsubara, it's marked "done", so I guess you did
<danilos> me
<danilos> :)
<Ursinha> sinzui, what about yours?
<Ursinha> danilos, you're late boss
<Ursinha> :P
 * danilos is sorry, lucid is all over him now
<Ursinha> excuses, excuses...
<sinzui> Ursinha, I have not done that
<Ursinha> sinzui, do you intend to?
<sinzui> yes. I think it is not as important as the real oopses and blockages that my team have
<Ursinha> [action] sinzui to follow up in work with losas to set the increase threshold for the product release finder monitoring script
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sinzui to follow up in work with losas to set the increase threshold for the product release finder monitoring script
<sinzui> wrong action
<sinzui> Ursinha, the losas will not make changes to the scripts. they invited me to submit a patch
<Ursinha> sinzui, ah, ok
<Ursinha> sinzui, so it's up to you to send a patch and fix that
<Ursinha> ?
<sinzui> correct
<Ursinha> [action] cancel last item
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cancel last item
<Ursinha> sinzui, is there a bug for that?
<Ursinha> I can file one and then remove the action item
<Ursinha> we can follow up in the bug then
<sinzui> not that I am aware of. I do not even know which project minds that code
<Ursinha> sinzui, I'll go figure that out
 * sinzui has a team and QA crisis last week and this week
<Ursinha> [action] Ursinha to file a bug about setting the increase threshold for the product release finder monitoring script
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Ursinha to file a bug about setting the increase threshold for the product release finder monitoring script
<Ursinha> sinzui, QA crisis?
<Ursinha> we can discuss that during the qa stats section...
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<Ursinha> oops section is all foundations today: four bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<sinzui> the suggest packages feature on the product page was bad. I did not want users to see an incomplete feature
<sinzui> We could not fix the feature because we were blocked on another feature.
<Ursinha> sinzui, ah, I recall the discussion
<Ursinha> gary_poster: I filed bug 553361 re. the referrer oops. is it hard to fix?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553361 in launchpad-foundations "OOPS when accessing launchpad with no referrer, eg. via wget" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553361
<Ursinha> gary_poster: also filed bug 553368 re. the DiscoveryFailures
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553368 in launchpad-foundations "Better handling of errors when trying to login when the op is down" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553368
<Ursinha> gary_poster: and bug 474774 is responsible for about 30 oopses a day, any chances of being fixed soon? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 474774 in launchpad-foundations "Non-ascii in the URL causes an OOPS" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/474774
<Ursinha> gary_poster: is bug 547054 really fixed? I still see a few oopses in lpnet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 547054 in launchpad-foundations "AssertionError: Don't try to render this page when the user is logged in." [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/547054
<gary_poster> 553361: we'll get that this cycle.  I'm not sure what the right solution is, but whatever it is, it shud be easy.
<gary_poster> it is scheduled for this cycle
<Ursinha> gary_poster, great
<gary_poster> 553368: will probably triage low
<Ursinha> 553361 has about 1k oopses in lpnet partial summaries :/
<gary_poster> 474774: noure we'll have time this cycle, but maybe.
<gary_poster> not sure
<gary_poster> 547054: if we are still getting OOPSes, then I suppose it is not fixed.  The remaining situations should be fairly low priority, but I'll ask salgado about them.
<Ursinha> thanks gary_poster
<gary_poster> thank you
<Ursinha> we have one bugs' oops, that allenap already found the bug and triaged as high: bug 365092
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 365092 in malone "Some bugs have BugMessage records with no corresponding MessageChunk records" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/365092
<Ursinha> oops-prune, expire-ppa-files and calculate-bug-heat have been failing
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=prune
<Ursinha> the last one, according to spm, was running while the check ran, should we change something to fix that?
<Ursinha> the failing scripts, that is
<allenap> Ursinha: It's named calculate_bug_heat (note the underscores) in the script. Could that cause this?
<allenap> chex: ^
<Ursinha> allenap, that's just my typo, sorry
<chex> allenap: ok, looking at it
<allenap> As in, does this check refer to ScriptActivity, or is it an OS thing.
<Ursinha> who should take care of the running scripts, losas or foundations?
<allenap> Ursinha: I can talk to chex about this outside of the meeting.
<Ursinha> thanks allenap :)
<chex> allenap: sorry, I need more context here, not quite following, my apologies
<Ursinha> [action] allenap to talk to chex after the meeting about the calculate_bug_heat failing script
<MootBot> ACTION received:  allenap to talk to chex after the meeting about the calculate_bug_heat failing script
<Ursinha> about the other two
<Ursinha> [action] Ursinha to investigate about oops-prune and expire-ppa-files failing scripts
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Ursinha to investigate about oops-prune and expire-ppa-files failing scripts
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=prune
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=prune
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> we have three critical bugs, all fix committed
<Ursinha> I suppose they were rolled out yesterday
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<Ursinha> or chex :P
 * Ursinha pokes ChanServ 
<Ursinha> errr
 * Ursinha pokes chex 
<chex> wow
<chex> sorry folks.. here is the LOSA report for this week
<chex> - Launchpad Full Production V10.03 was rolled-out on Wednesday morning, some replication issues
<chex>         caused the roll-out to take a hour longer than expected.
<chex>      Some notes:
<chex>         : The SSO DB Migration project is now complete, SSO is now using its own master DB.
<chex>         : A Handful of scripts needed to be modified to work after the rollout,
<chex>         mostly due to master/slave Postgres access changes, and have been fixed.
<chex>         : There will be readonly downtime tomorrow at 09:00 UTC while we switch the authDB master
<chex>         for LP which will complete the "SplitIt" project.
<matsubara> Ursinha, keep poking ChanServ and it'll kick ban you hehe
<chex> - ImportD large imports still causing problems:
<chex>         : Pear had to be restarted last Thur 25-Apr after a large git import,
<chex>         Bug# 536486 is still relevant.
<chex> and thats all for this week, any comments/questions?
<Ursinha> bug 536486
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 536486 in launchpad-code "Svn import of ruby taking 2.7G RSS" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/536486
<gary_poster> (yay about SplitIt!)
<Ursinha> chex, mwhudson was working on bug 536486, it seems, but has no assignee now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 536486 in launchpad-code "Svn import of ruby taking 2.7G RSS" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/536486
<Ursinha> rockstar, do you know something about that?
<rockstar> Ursinha, well, it's a bug in bzr-git and jelmer is investigating it.
<rockstar> The Kernel import has the same issue.
<Ursinha> rockstar, bzr-git? so not launchpad actually?
<rockstar> Ursinha, yes, at least that's what we believe.
<rockstar> But what "launchpad" means is a bit fuzzy.  It's the import worker that has the issue.
<Ursinha> rockstar, right.. can you explain that in the bug, please?
<Ursinha> maybe add another bugtask to bzr-git
<rockstar> Ursinha, I'm sure I can have someone else do it.
<Ursinha> rockstar, thank you very much
<chex> Ursinha: thank you guys, this is a serious problem we need to address somehow..
<Ursinha> [action] rockstar to find someone to look at bug 536486 and update it
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rockstar to find someone to look at bug 536486 and update it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 536486 in launchpad-code "Svn import of ruby taking 2.7G RSS" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/536486
<chex> rockstar: you as well, sorry. :)
<Ursinha> anyone else?
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * DBA report (stub)
<Ursinha> stub is excused due to our "late" meeting, he already sent the report to the list
<MootBot> New Topic:  * DBA report (stub)
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * QA stats of the week
<MootBot> New Topic:  * QA stats of the week
<Ursinha> our list of untriaged bugs of this week:
<Ursinha> Soyuz (soyuz): 27
<Ursinha> launchpadlib  (launchpadlib): 25
<Ursinha> OOPS Tools (oops-tools): 16
<Ursinha> Launchpad Developer Utilities (lp-dev-utils): 9
<Ursinha> Launchpad Auto Build System (launchpad-buildd): 6
<Ursinha> Launchpad Development Wiki Moin theme (launchpad-dev-moin-theme): 5
<Ursinha> Launchpad Bazaar Integration (launchpad-code): 5
<Ursinha> Launchpad Bugs (malone): 5
<Ursinha> Launchpad Foundations (launchpad-foundations): 4
<Ursinha> Launchpad Translations (rosetta): 3
<Ursinha> Launchpad Buildbot Configuration (lpbuildbot): 2
<Ursinha> trac-launchpad-migrator (trac-launchpad-migrator): 2
<Ursinha> launchpad-loggerhead (launchpad-loggerhead): 2
<Ursinha> Launchpad News WordPress Theme (launchpad-news-wordpress-theme): 2
<Ursinha> Launchpad QA Utilities (lp-qa-tools): 2
<Ursinha> Launchpad Help Wiki Moin theme (launchpad-help-moin-theme): 2
<Ursinha> Launchpad CSCVS (launchpad-cscvs): 2
<Ursinha> Launchpad itself (launchpad): 1
<Ursinha> Launchpad Documentation (launchpad-documentation): 1
<Ursinha> Tickcount (tickcount): 1
<Ursinha> I see soyuz is looking much better now!
<Ursinha> rockstar, you have bugs this week :)
<rockstar> Ursinha, only one, and I have no idea how to just dismiss the bug like I want to.
<Ursinha> about the other projects, it would be nice to triage the bugs
<rockstar> It looks like everyone is doing well triaging.
<Ursinha> rockstar, yes, indeed
<Ursinha> I'm talking about the smaller projects
<Ursinha> like loggerhead, lp-buildd
<Ursinha> well, I'll poke people after the meeting about them :)
<gary_poster> consider launchpadlib poked
<Ursinha> [action] Ursinha to talk to people about the untriaged bugs of smaller projects
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Ursinha to talk to people about the untriaged bugs of smaller projects
<rockstar> Is loggerhead really the sole responsibility of Launchpad?  I thought it was generally a community project that we happened to be eating.
<Ursinha> gary_poster, thanks :)
<Ursinha> rockstar, that's a good question; those projects are the ones under the lp-project group
<Ursinha> rockstar, and that's exactly what I'd like to figure out, which ones we have to keep track of
<rockstar> Well, technically Tarmac should also be there (I think it's currently in the bazaar group, which is wrong)
<gary_poster> Ursinha: to really make me weep, you can include lazr.restfulclient, lazr.restful and wadllib in the list... :-) ...and probably other lazr.* packages
<rockstar> Ursinha, also, I think we want to disavow all knowledge of CSCVS one day.
<Ursinha> gary_poster, those ones aren't included in lp project, right?
<gary_poster> Ursinha: right.  You might be able to just point it to lazr project
<gary_poster> Though that be a bad idea
<gary_poster> since it includes stuff like Storm
<Ursinha> [action] Ursinha to send one email to lp list about the untriaged bugs in lp-project and others
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Ursinha to send one email to lp list about the untriaged bugs in lp-project and others
<Ursinha> gary_poster, I'll send one email to lp list then we can discuss it better
<gary_poster> cool, Ursinha
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Proposed items
<Ursinha> Anyone?
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Proposed items
<Ursinha> I'll consider that a no :)
<Ursinha> well
<Ursinha> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See https://dev.launchpad.net/MeetingAgenda for the logs.
<Ursinha> happy Easter for those who have it :)
<Ursinha> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:43.
<gary_poster> Thanks Ursinha
<Ursinha> thanks everyone
