#ubuntu-nz 2011-09-05
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<snail> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<thumper> morning
<snail> won't be able to make lunch today, sadly i have a meeting that clashes
<Atamira> morning
<ibeardslee> So I had been trying to upgrade my PC to oneiric on the weekend
<ajmitch> everything exploded?
<chilts> ibeardslee: you must have been busy if it kept you from realising the weekend finished a day ago :)
<ibeardslee> some packages were missing from citylink .. so I thought for shits and giggles to try "Select Best Server"
<ibeardslee> mirror.aarnet.edu.au was the best
<ibeardslee> TelstraClear are still arse at peering
<ajmitch> let me guess, traffic goes to the US & then to australia?
<ibeardslee> didn't check that, but you'd think that they could get to an NZ host first
<ajmitch> with ipv6 being enabled now, I've noticed some screwy peering
<ajmitch> snap are using telstraclear for an upstream for that, from what I can see
<ajmitch> I was trying to get to www.debian.org, which is hosted in canberra & I had mtr showing traffic going NZ->US->AU
<ibeardslee> chilts: I managed to finish the upgrade last night .. once all the files were available
<ibeardslee> although now the PC has some issues with getting the gui going
<ajmitch> NZ mirrors seem to have more than their fair share of problems
<ibeardslee> ohhh doing a beta install of oneiric
<ibeardslee> the install fires up the webcam and asks if you want to take a photo of yourself to use for the login picture
<chilts> wonder what happens on a server install ... you get a picture of the rack opposite
<chilts> :)
<chilts> (assuming the server has a webcam of course, before anyone else points it out) :-p
<ajmitch> why you'd do a server install with the desktop cd, I don't know :)
<ibeardslee> because you want a gui like every good Windows server has of course
<chilts> neither do I :)
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: of course...
<ibeardslee> nice .. looks like oneiric fixes the problem with the phantom monitor on this laptop
<timClicks> morning
<ibeardslee> morning timClicks
#ubuntu-nz 2011-09-06
<ibeardslee> it's somewhat disturbing to see a bunch of i386 flashing by on the screen when installing/updating a x64 PC
<ajmitch> the joys of multiarch
 * snail imagines server-room security built on a web-cam on every server...
<chilts> heh
<ajmitch> by the time you get there it's a bit late :)
<chilts> if you ever get there
<ibeardslee> yay .. https://soniahamilton.wordpress.com/2008/02/06/change-first-day-of-week-in-ubuntus-gnome-calendar/
<chilts> in whatever locale you're in, Monday shouldn't be 2 :(
<chilts> not that it probably matters
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> Morning
 * ajmitch hates seeing that 'no route to host' when trying to ssh to the laptop
<ajmitch> & I then of course see that I forgot to plug in the network cable, yay for mornings
<hads> heh
<hads> Had another new disk installed in server this morning after 75 days, hopefully this one lasts longer.
<ajmitch> is that server vibrating a bit much for the disks, or overheating?
<Atamira> morning
<hads> The last one was replaced as an upgrade rather than a failure, I think it was just a lemon.
<hads> Drives running at 26 degrees and previous one lasted over 3 years
<hads> 3 failures total in just over 3 years.
<ajmitch> right, I thought you'd mentioned them failing a bit more often
<hads> Yeah, felt like it but I went back through the history to check.
<mwhudson> morning
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<ibeardslee> why oh why is this out of stock? when I have some money burning a hole in my pocket .. http://www.makershed.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MSUMP
#ubuntu-nz 2011-09-07
<hads> Let me help you with that...
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<chilts> morning
<Atamira> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2011-09-08
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<snail> i wish this men with odd shaped balls would get done playing
<snail> s/this/these/
 * ibeardslee wonders what the shape of testicles has to do with anything
<ajmitch> snail: it's not like the streets are closed right outside your office, is it?
<ajmitch> http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/council-online/webcams/octagon
<ajmitch> the building that I'm in is just off the left of the frame
<snail> ibeardslee: that's the point, the shape of their balls is about the only thing that hasn't been packaged to advertisers and shoved down our throat every TV ad-break in the last six months
<snail> ajmitch: if it were, I'd get some time off
<ajmitch> I'm not so lucky :)
 * ibeardslee has no tv, so has been 'missing out'
<ajmitch> I've got a TV, it hasn't been plugged in for a couple of years
<ibeardslee> well actually I do have one, but it's used for DVDs .. reception is shite
 * ajmitch reads news online & still can't avoid the RWC
<ajmitch> given that we've built a whole new stadium for it which I can see from the office, it's probably a bit hard to avoid it
<chilts> morning
<chilts> wow, far too much talk for this early in the morning
 * chilts hands out slapped wrists
<ajmitch> sorry, will shut up now
<chilts> nah, it's ok, you can carry on :)
<chilts> I was just messin' wit' yer head
<ibeardslee> wrists?
<chilts> don't you have any? :-p
<mwhudson> morning
<ajmitch> damn, can't get away from RWC even on planet ubuntu
#ubuntu-nz 2011-09-11
<Bacta> Enjoying the Rugby?
<Bacta> Sup dawg
<moose-machine>  hi. can anyone help me regarding tethering for my iphone 4 with ubuntu via bluetooth? it was working fine. but has stopped working all of a sudden.
<Bacta> Is your connection still active?
<moose-machine> it connects well in windows 7
<moose-machine> and via wi-fi on ubuntu
<Bacta> hmmmm
<Bacta> Don't know sorry
<moose-machine> no worries :) thx
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<snail> ibeardslee: thanks for the lift btw
<ibeardslee> np
<snail> hope you didn't get caught in the hail shower this morning?
<ibeardslee> yeah I did .. but I was in the car.  Still can't really do Safari Cresent with my ankle
<snail> my wife was out walking the dog when it hit...
<chilts> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<hads> Morning
<thumper> morning
<ibeardslee> hads: I'm slowly working through that maker project kit .. finding the parts and pricing .. 'fun'
<ibeardslee> got to be an easier way
#ubuntu-nz 2012-09-03
<robert_ancell> Anyone know someone in NZ who'd be interested in trading a Nokia N9 (unopened, black 16GB) for a Galaxy Nexus?
<ibeardslee> if I had a Nokia N9, yes I would be ;)
<mwhudson> ibeardslee: why have swap enabled at all?
<ibeardslee> mwhudson: that is also a question I ponder on.
<mwhudson> i seem to be using about 500 megs of 8 gigs of swap, no clue why
<mwhudson> doesn
<mwhudson> doesn't really seem to be affecting my life though :)
<snail> swapon/swapoff can be useful if you have overnight maintenance tasks that take up stupid amounts of memory
<ibeardslee> ajmitch: what was the feedback like from PyCon about your UltraLap?
<lunchbox> hey
<chilts> ojwb: welcome back
<chilts> how was your caving/adventuring/etc?
<ojwb> chilts: pretty good
<chilts> glad to be back?
<lunchbox> you went cave hunting?
<lunchbox> that sounds great
<lunchbox> did you find any rocks/minerals? :D
<ojwb> yeah, it's certainly good to be back
<lunchbox> we planted 200,000 tulips yesterday
<chilts> that's a lot of tulips :)
<lunchbox> thats nothing
<lunchbox> we hav eover 4.5 million tulips
<lunchbox> http://imgur.com/a/ZggQE#0
<lunchbox> pics from the gardens
<chilts> where do you work?
<chilts> that's pretty cool (and very colourful)
<lunchbox> thanks.
<lunchbox> I'm a VC.
<lunchbox> The gardens are near Lake Hawea
<chilts> nice
<chilts> I have a great picture of Lake Hawea from my trip here in 1998
<chilts> very mirror like :)
<lunchbox> We have just over 6500 hectares here
<lunchbox> 35 hectares just of tulips
<chilts> that'd be just lovely, I'll have to come visit sometime
<lunchbox> let me know if you decide to come
<lunchbox> most welcome of course
<chilts> :)
<ojwb> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<lunchbox> morning ojwb / ajmitch
<ibeardslee> morning
<lunchbox> i just took a picture of my pet ghost
<lunchbox> https://p.twimg.com/AlwrKSxCEAAafO9.jpg:large
<mwhudson> morning
<lunchbox> morning mwhudson
<ibeardslee> is that running Ubuntu?
<lunchbox> nope
<lunchbox> how do i do that?
<Atamira> morning
<lunchbox> morning Atamira
<ibeardslee> lunchbox: Dunno, I thought maybe that was why you were showing an ubuntu itc channel
<lunchbox> :P
<lunchbox> its not, unfortunately.
<lunchbox> let me know in advance the next time you're here
<lunchbox> alwaays happy to show the area to people from nz
<ibeardslee> http://no.softwarepatents.org.nz/
<lunchbox> description?
<lunchbox> obviously cant follow every link posted.
<ojwb> the domain name pretty much describes it...
<ibeardslee> there aren't many non-ubuntu/software links about
<ibeardslee> occasionally get unrelated rubbish about cars ;)
<lunchbox> :/
<lunchbox> I'll sign it
<chilts> morning
<ojwb> hi chilts
<ajmitch>  /win 62
<thumper> morning
<lunchbox> morning
<hads> ajmitch: Many windows.
<ajmitch> hads: yeah, I closed a few when I had to restart my vps
#ubuntu-nz 2012-09-04
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: do you have grub visible at all during boot on your ultralap? also, which kernel version was installed with yours?
<ibeardslee> it came with a 3.3 installed from a PPA
<ibeardslee> I removed that and went to the default Precise kernel
<ibeardslee> no I don't see the grub menu
 * ajmitch has 3.3.6
<ajmitch> tempted to go to the quantal backported kernel+X stack
<ibeardslee> prob from the PPA (assuming you are running the default install from ZaReason)
<ajmitch> yes, some interesting PPA
<ibeardslee> when mine arrives I'll go straight to Quantal (at whatever state it is in)
<ajmitch> I'd trust the backported quantal kernel a bit more, and can get a bit more support with that :)
<ajmitch> though I've heard thumper having a few problems with intel graphics on quantal
<ibeardslee> I'd want to thrash it and help do what I can to get it right
<ajmitch> right, I've got my desktop on quantal now
<ajmitch> have only had the laptop a couple of day so far though :)
<thumper> 'sup?
<ajmitch> thumper: still having those intel graphics issues?
<thumper> not tried rebooting my old laptop for a while
<ajmitch> just debating whether to upgrade to quantal on new laptop
<thumper> not since the dist-upgrade this morning
<thumper> ajmitch: if it is modern intel graphics, you probably wont have a problem
<thumper> mine is gm45
<thumper> *probably*
<ajmitch> ivy bridge, so hd4000
<thumper> I've kept mine on precise so far
<thumper> will run a quantal vm
<ajmitch> what does your new monster have?
<thumper> once I figure all that out
<thumper> ivy bridge
<thumper> I stuck with intel graphics
<thumper> so I didn't need a massive power brick
<thumper> like thomi's
<thumper> and I don't play games
<thumper> so don't need massive power there
<thomi> :-/
 * ajmitch has nvidia graphics in new desktop, recent drivers still have a few issues with X freezing for several seconds at a time, or just locking up altogether :(
<ajmitch> hopefully they'll sort ouf the nvidia driver problems, but I'm not optimistic
<ajmitch> thumper: I think you need to bring your new laptop along tonight to show it off
<thumper> hmm... nah
<thumper> :)
<thumper> although did install the presenter console for open office
<thumper> tried to work out what the annoying bugs were that I kept seeing at the conference
<ajmitch> with fullscreen & multi-monitor?
<thumper> yeah
<ajmitch> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<lifeless> o/
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<Atamira> morning
<ojwb> any recommendations for an NZ insurance broker to try for house insurance?
 * ibeardslee uses AA
<ibeardslee> house/contents/car
<ojwb> not tried them yet, but the quote we got from AMI was daft.  Half the house is pre-1920s which is probably unusual, so I wondered if a broker was worth a try
<hads> No experience with brokers, I think most people go direct.
#ubuntu-nz 2012-09-05
<hads> ajmitch: Interesting blog post on the Korean monitors with an EDID file; http://www.overclock.net/a/sound-quieter-in-linux-than-windows-2560x1440-27-korean-display-not-working-the-problems-i-encountered-and-their-solution
<hads> I changed motherboards and my IgnoreEDID line stopped working for some reason. Using the EDID data linked from there sorted it.
<ajmitch> to be honest I haven't plugged that monitor into the new desktop because of various cables & cords, thanks for the heads-up
<ibeardslee> what happens if you don't actually have an xorg/conf file?
<ibeardslee> xorg.conf
<hads> No display.
<hads> Sorry, no X display.
<hads> The EDID seems a bit wonky, nouveau handles it by nvidia doesn't.
<ajmitch> nouveau possibly ignores it
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: my xorg.conf is only a few lines
 * ibeardslee just had a look at my workstation one (with nvidia drivers, dual monitors) and it is a bit bigger than I thought it was.
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: probably written by nvidia-settings
<Atamira> mornin
<mwhudson> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ojwb> morning
<chilts> morning
<hads> MORNING
<hads> This morning my caps lock light is on when caps lock is off for some reason.
 * ojwb always carefully disables capslock
<ibeardslee> morning
 * thomi uploads lifeless's keynote video. 
<thomi> It's taking longer to upload than it did to watch it, trim the video, & re-render it. :(
#ubuntu-nz 2012-09-06
<elky> thomi, to youtube from nz? not surprised.
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<thumper> morning
<chilts> morning
<Atamira> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-09-07
<ibeardslee> seems 12.10 Beta 1 is out
<thumper> I wouldn't rush...
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I'm just installing backported kernel + X from quantal now
<ajmitch> so far I can see that I'll need to backport virtualbox as well
<kcj> Morning
<Atamira> morning
<ojwb> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-09-08
<ojwb> morning
<hads> Updated this test VM 10.04 - 12.04. Seemed to work. The screen session died for some reason during dpkg configure but looks like it resurected okay when I re-ran it.
#ubuntu-nz 2012-09-09
<ibeardslee> morning
<ojwb> morning
<chilts> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ibeardslee> such a pity that Precise still has so many errors and crashes
<ajmitch> part of the problem is that some of these crashes weren't terribly visible in previous versions, but the new error reporting tool pops up when something silently dies
<ajmitch> so it's a mix of perception & of things just being buggy
<ibeardslee> perception of broken things shouldn't exist in an LTS release .. esp at the x.xx.1 release
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> its not that simple really.
<lifeless> Consider - a background thread in a GUI crashes.
<ibeardslee> the non-LTS versions should make that more visible so they get elimintated
<lifeless> Some folk don't notice at all.
<hads> I imagine you need the reports to find out what's broken.
<lifeless> Some folk notice, because e.g. their ipod doesn't sync properly.
<lifeless> We can't just gather the stats without peoples consent.
<lifeless> And we don't have good enough heuristics that a global consent from a user will be good enough to avoid all chance of snarfing up passwords etc.
<lifeless> So we have a choice, of not knowing that there is a problem, or of our users also knowing that there is a problem.
<ibeardslee> sure .. but for most people .. Precise crashes more than previous versions
<lifeless> *Because* its an LTS, its important we know whether its still got a high failure rate or not, otherwise we can't tell if allocating engineering effort to fixing it makes sense.
<ibeardslee> sorry .. but for most people .. "Precise crashes more than previous versions"
<lifeless> ibeardslee: See, *maybe* it does, *maybe it doesn't*. What we know about previous versions is worse than anecdotal.
<lifeless> ibeardslee: what is clear is that we can now go out and fix precise.
<lifeless> (and we are)
<ajmitch> there was a spirited discussion about whether to turn off whoopsie in 12.04.1. The data just isn't there for previous releases of ubuntu
<hads> From my perspective, until I saw the explanation that crash reporting was turned on, I thought that precise was just crashy.
<lifeless> ajmitch: btw speaking of error reporting.
<lifeless> ajmitch: did you see the php oops client link ?
<ajmitch> lifeless: yeah I did thanks
<ibeardslee> I agree, but I'm here defending precise against people telling me it crashes more than previous versions
<lifeless> ibeardslee: I certainly understand *that*.
<lifeless> ibeardslee: Windows had exactly the same psychological issue when it introduced error reporting
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: previous releases had apport turned off at release, so this is where perception of crashiness comes in, but the data just wasn't there to compare against
<ajmitch> there
<ibeardslee> and because of that, I have others telling me they don't want to upgrade to Precise because it keeps crashing for others
<ajmitch> there have been developers allocated for stable release maintenance & this is what they use to schedule what to work on
<lifeless> ibeardslee: so, thats fine - the primary goal isn't to get everyone on precise, its to finally fix this horribly crashing platform we have.
<lifeless> Precise is probably the least crashy we've been.
<hads> Cool
<lifeless> ibeardslee: I don't /care/ if O users avoid precise like the plague.
<lifeless> ibeardslee: if we don't fix the root cause, the *justified* reputation of Linux as a crashy horrible desktop OS will remain.
<ibeardslee> Agreed .. but unless people are aware that this LTS is all about fixing existing underlying issues, Precise *looks like* the buggiest release yet.
<lifeless> yeah
<lifeless> its a rub, thats for sure
<mwhudson> i'm not sure what the alternative course of action is
<mwhudson> i guess whoopsie could have stayed off until quantal
<mwhudson> but then that's another 6 months of waiting?
<ajmitch> but then you don't get info on what needed fixing for 12.04.1
<ibeardslee> No no, leave it on quantal .. it's not the LTS release.
<ibeardslee> err /me reads and comprehends better
<ojwb> you should have sent the code back in time and turned it on for maverick
<ajmitch> I think that errors.ubuntu.com has been a very useful tool
<lifeless> We have some assumptions.
<lifeless> We assume that LTS users are statistically different to current-release users are different to in-development users.
<lifeless> We assume that we get different issues from these groups; likely with significant overlap, but specifically not subsets.
<ojwb> that's likely true, though if you'd started in the post-LTS release you'd have shaken out at least some of the issues LTS users hit too
<lifeless> indeed!
<lifeless> There are things being done to reduce the impact
<lifeless> IIRC:
<lifeless>  - the UI is being polished
<ojwb> my hindsight is 20-20
<lifeless>  - a cap on reports per user is being put in place to avoid dossing folk
<lifeless>  - there are plans (likely to not be ported to precise) for wider opt-in that might permit no-interaction crash report handling, specficially for known crashes.
<ojwb> having used linux as a desktop OS heavily for close to 20 years now, I can't say I agree that it's a crashy horrible desktop OS
<ibeardslee> I agree
<ojwb> sound has been a rough edge for a long time, on and off
<lifeless> I use it, and love it, as my desktop. However, compared to Mac OS X and Windows 7, we suffer more failed processes and drivers, per user per day.
 * ajmitch won't mention those bloody nvidia drivers
<lifeless> Personal anecdata - wifi dies for me every day or two, sometimes multiple times per day; graphic lockups once a week or so if I use unity.
<ibeardslee> until precise, I have to admit that I hardly ever noticed things going wrong.
<lifeless> Thats intel video, not nvidia.
<ojwb> well, unity was very crashy, at least in the initial release
<lifeless> suspend resume are still fragile
<ibeardslee> or at least if I did, it was an insignificant event
<ojwb> but I think that's not "linux desktop" really
<lifeless> firefox and chromium processes dying are routine
<lifeless> libreoffice going up its own backend is common
<mwhudson> iwlwifi causes the majority of my pain in precise i think
<lifeless> so common, they put specific crash handling code for recovery of documents...
<mwhudson> firefox was very very crashy for a while, but that turned out to be firebug
<ajmitch> mwhudson: I can believe that, I still have to disable 802.11n to get usable wifi
<lifeless> gvfs gets stuck on windows interop so often its not funny
<ojwb> the driver for the wifi chipset in this laptop is very poor, but it's not in the kernel which is probably an indicator of the quality of it
<ojwb> doesn't ms office do document recovery too?
<lifeless> point is, put a linux desktop beside a windows 7 or mac for a month, do the same things on them both, and its extremely unlikely that the user observable crash rate on the linux machine will be higher than that of either other OS
<lifeless> Its important to celebrate how far we have come, but its also important not to be blind to the issues we do have.
<mwhudson> lifeless: i think you mean 'lower' there?
<lifeless> mwhudson: BWAH. yes. Thanks/
<ajmitch> talking of crash reports, there goes one now :)
<ibeardslee> heh
<ibeardslee> tried to ugprade my home PC to Quantal on the weekend
<ibeardslee> won't do it, despite the video card supporting earlier 3D efforts it isn't supported by the lastest version of unity
 * ajmitch did a fresh quantal install on the new home pc without too many issues
<ajmitch> that's interesting, what card?
<ibeardslee> an onboard nvidia geforce 6somethingmumble
<ajmitch> 6000 series?
<ajmitch> nvidia has some weird numbering
<ibeardslee> GeForce 6150
<ajmitch> that should still be supported by the latest nvidia drivers
<ajmitch> after that it'll only be supported on their legacy branch
<ibeardslee> won't do the 3D for Precise either
<ajmitch> odd
<ibeardslee> http://www.asus.co.nz/Motherboards/AMD_AM2/M2NPVVM/#specifications
<ibeardslee> that's the motherboard (and video)
<ajmitch> could be that unity is expecting certain functionality that the card won't support
<ajmitch> run /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test -p
 * ibeardslee makes a note for this evening
<ajmitch> you can't ssh into your home machine? :)
<ibeardslee> home PC is off .. this irc session is on my home server
<ajmitch> ah right
<ibeardslee> was getting an old shuttle up and running yesterday as well .. ahh edgy, the memories
<hads> wakeonlan $DESKTOP :)
<ibeardslee> that has been configured, but the network is still plugged into the shuttle
<ibeardslee> been considering the power useage of that old PC, compared to my existing home server .. that could be a decent upgrade path
<Atamira> morning
<Atamira> waiting for the rain to hit
<ibeardslee> it certainly hit here over the weekend
<Atamira> it hits and stops and hits again here
<Atamira> tho im sure we dont have all of it
<Atamira> i know one of the posthops in hamilton had their roof cave in due to hail
 * ojwb wonders if that's a typo for postops or postshops
<ibeardslee> you mean you haven't seen the post hop?
<ojwb> no, the bottle shop had sold out of it
<ibeardslee> it's a variation of the lindy hop
<lifeless> ibeardslee: not going to go the ARM route?
<ibeardslee> lifeless: for the home server?  got a vagueplan to be able to run a couple of vms for things like calibre, koha etc
<lifeless> ibeardslee: yeah, there is kvm for ARM nowadays
<Atamira> ;p;
<Atamira> oops
<Atamira> im tired..
<Atamira> post shop
<ibeardslee> and now based on previous discussions starts letting all crashes get reported
<ibeardslee> lifeless: that does change things a wee bit then
<lifeless> ibeardslee: google has stuff on it
<ibeardslee> although the advantage with the x64 server is just the one arch being cached by apt-cacher-ng
<lifeless> have you seen the baserock ?
<ibeardslee> no I haven't
<lifeless> http://www.baserock.com/
<lifeless> 8 x quad-core
<ibeardslee> sounds overkill for a home server?
<lifeless> probably uses a total of 50W at peak.
<lifeless> ibeardslee: no such thing as overkill :)
<ibeardslee> there is so when $$ are in short supply
<ibeardslee> how could I get 4 x 3TB disks in those?
<lifeless> you'd need a separate container for them, but each board has SATA on it
<lifeless> anyhow, its just one of the servers out there doing this
<ibeardslee> the HP 40L was something I'd considered
<lifeless> theres a bunch of Ubuntu folk loving on the HP microservers
<ibeardslee> but there is much to consider in terms of what I run at home and how live it is 24x7
<lifeless> ... which the 40L appears to be
<ibeardslee> yes
<lifeless> the HP website has terrible google juice.
<lifeless> first page of google for hp 40L has no links to the HP site :(
<lifeless> but apparently the HP40L is a Ryobi 4 V Lithium-Ion Screwdriver
<ibeardslee> well there you go
<ibeardslee> try the HP N40L
<lifeless> yeah
<lifeless> just found it on their site
<lifeless> thanks!
#ubuntu-nz 2013-09-02
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly_> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<snail> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<thomi> mwhudson: coming to kiwi pycon this year?
<mwhudson> thomi: yes
<thomi> speaking?
<mwhudson> i will be taking pictures on saturday morning again :)
<mwhudson> no
<thomi> ahh, cool
<thomi> I'm looking forward to it!
<mwhudson> yeah, me too
<thomi> I have to shave 10 minutes off my talk somehow
 * mwhudson has been on the organizers list all year and very unhelpful :(
<thomi> heh
<thomi> it turns out it takes about a year after organising kiwi pycon 2012 before one starts to think "that wasn't so bad, maybe I could do it again one day"
<ajmitch> thomi: not sure if brave or foolish
<thomi> terminally stupid, probably
<mwhudson> thomi: :)
<mwhudson> i burnt out most of my conference organizing energy on europython
<thomi> anyway, I need to finish some personal projects this year
 * thomi measures year cycles starting and ending at kiwipycon
<ajmitch> thomi: you'd have to make it more awesome than every previous one
<thomi> ajmitch: I still think each city should do 2 years running, like other pycons
<thomi> you learn so much doing the first one, and then don't get a chance to implement those ideas a second time around
<olly_> the same team should be forced to run it again and again until they get it exactly right - then it can move to a new city
<thomi> hah
<mwhudson> :)
<mwhudson> someone in a leather jacket should arrive at someone's house, gestapo style, at 4am and tell them they're organizing kiwipycon this year
<thomi> the final session in each kiwi pycon should be a ghameshow, "weakest link" style, with random audience members who are hauled up in front of everyone. Whoever looses the game is the conference director for the next year
<mwhudson> +1
<mwhudson> thomi: going to codewars?
<mwhudson> i guess i should find a teammate or two if i want to compete...
<thomi> mwhudson: not sure whaat I'm doing on the Friday. I had hoped to get into one of the tutorials, but it seems they're all full now
<mwhudson> yeah, they filled up v quickly
<thomi> I've never even been to a codewars before, not sure what to expect
<mwhudson> codewars is later though, 6pm on or so
<mwhudson> me neither!
<thomi> how many to a team?
<mwhudson> 2-3
<mwhudson> http://nz.pycon.org/events/codewars/
<ibeardslee> LCA has a 'ghosts' concept where previous organisers are involved with advising upcoming organising teams
<mwhudson> ibeardslee: i saw fmarier after lca wellington, 'ghost' sounds about right
<thomi> ibeardslee: yeah, that's what I had in mind
<ibeardslee> it certainly isn't "your turn, see you there"
<chilts> morning ... wow, I'm late
<chilts> there's been activity
<thumper> morning
<ajmitch> chilts: yeah sorry, we should have told them to stop interrupting the mornings
<chilts> shocking behaviour
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-09-03
<snail> just had to add wikimedia admins by reaching into the mysql database and inserting a row. now i feel dirty.
<mwhudson> i wouldn't recommend anything made out of php, mysql and baling twine as a way to feel clean
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> morning
<olly_> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<thumper> morning
<mwhudson> thumper: weather awful in dunedin yet?
<thumper> yep, cold, hail and rain
<mwhudson> who's next i wonder
<mwhudson> hads: you're in canterbury somewhere?
<olly_> it's due to hit wellington later apparently
<snail> wellington is currently uniformly gloomy, but the harbour isn't as still as it was earlier
 * olly_ can see a brighter bit out to the north
<olly_> well, less gloomy anyway
<chilts> I see grey sky only
<chilts> wind and rain has died down
<chilts> still reasonably cold
<karora> Yeah, wind was northerly earlier, but the cold will come from the other direction...
<kcj> Morning.
<mwhudson> kcj: cutting it fine :)
<kcj> :)
<ibeardslee> I see AMD are getting all 64 bit ARM servers are coming
#ubuntu-nz 2013-09-04
<chilts> any takers? https://twitter.com/andychilton/status/375052826524647424
<chilts> in reference to this : http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2013/09/new-aws-command-line-interface-cli.html
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<chilts> morning
<olly_> morning
<hads> mwhudson: Sorry, I'm in Fiji this week, the weather is quite nice :)
<mwhudson> hads: heh
<hads> morning
<snail> hads: don't worry, we're all on the same faultline
#ubuntu-nz 2013-09-05
<kcj> Morning.
<ibeardslee> morning
<ibeardslee> and what a grand one it is too
<snail> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ajmitch> and what a grey, boring one it is!
<hads> morning
<olly_> morning
<chilts> morning
<chilts> it's a beautiful day in Wellington
<olly_> yeah, my office was too hot this morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-09-07
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-09-08
<Atamira> afteroon
<olly> evening
<olly> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<snail> morning
<ibeardslee> Hmm .. Intel Reverts Plans, Will Not Support Ubuntu's XMir .. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQ1NjY
<olly> ibeardslee: doesn't sound like a "neutral stance" to me
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> back in a bit
#ubuntu-nz 2014-09-01
<locodir-user> hi,
<locodir-user> is someone on line??
<locodir-user> need help with my ubuntu
<ibeardslee> what sort of help
<kcj> Helpful help probably.
<ibeardslee> that's helpful
<ibeardslee> locodir-user: what sort of help do you need?
<kcj> locodir-user: Also, this channel's kinda small. #ubuntu would probably be of more use.
<ibeardslee> locodir-user: but often #ubuntu-nz can help for some things especially if you find #ubuntu to full of other discussion that you can't get traction.
<kcj> Well, we sure helped him.
<ibeardslee> awesome assistance there kcj, if all the help you can offer is by telling people that someone who has asked how they can help that they can't really .. don't bother
<ibeardslee> you may be better off in #troll or something
<kcj> Really?
<kcj> #ubuntu is a much better equipped channel for assistance.
<ibeardslee> sure, but I was here and was offering my assistance
<kcj> Yes, I wasn't getting in the way of that.
<ibeardslee> and then you basically said we can't help
<kcj> So no need for passive-aggressive attacks. Okay?
<ibeardslee> yeap, and no need to go knocking people's offering to help
<ibeardslee> that ISN'T helpful at all
<kcj> You done?
<ibeardslee> are you?
<kcj> Telling a user where the main support channel is located is a helpful thing to do.
<ibeardslee> telling a user they are able to help here and now is even better
<kcj> Why not both?
<locodir-user> this computer dont work well... sorry about that
<ibeardslee> anyway, sorry locodir-user, what can I help you with?
<locodir-user> hi, i'm from argentina and my computer is with this... Ubuntu 13.10 to 14.04 upgrade: Filesystem check or mount failed
<locodir-user> i'm now in New Zealand, travelling around, is there any place where i can take it so somebody can fix it??
<ibeardslee> at what point does that happen? after the upgrade or as it is getting ready to start?
<locodir-user> soon as i start the computer
<ibeardslee> after the upgrade?
<locodir-user> i really dont know...
<locodir-user> i think that the update never finish
<kcj> Ooh, not good.
<ibeardslee> ouch, that'll makes things 'fun'
<ibeardslee> where are you in your travels at the moment?
<kcj> You may need to re-install.
<locodir-user> now i'm in morrinsville
 * ibeardslee goes to google
<locodir-user> but we are leaving today to Te Puke and then to Auckland tomorrow morning
<locodir-user> the problem is that i don't have another computer and i'm using the internet in the library
<ibeardslee> ahh ok
<ibeardslee> you can probably get away without having to reinstall .. depending on what the real problem is
<ibeardslee> do you have the laptop handy?
<locodir-user> yes
<ibeardslee> when it starts up, if you start hitting the 'left shift' key before ubuntu starts you should be able to get to the grub menu, and from their choose other ubuntu options and then the recovery option
<locodir-user> yes, but after that i put any choice and came this:
<locodir-user> Filesystem check or mount failed.
<ibeardslee> at what point? the grub menu or the recovery option?
<locodir-user> now i get something else... recovery mode, but i don't know how keep going
<kcj[work]> http://askubuntu.com/a/40058 looks like the way to go.
<ibeardslee> recovery mode that's a good start.
<ibeardslee> from there I suggest choosing 'root' or something like that, I think the bottom or second to bottom one
<locodir-user> i get the root, what now??
<ibeardslee> first type 'ls /etc/fstab'
<ibeardslee> that'll tell us what file systems the system expects to have
<ibeardslee> gah .. 'less /etc/fstab' is what I meant
<locodir-user> nothing happend
<ibeardslee> with the less or ls ?
<locodir-user> now work
<locodir-user> with less
<ibeardslee> how much do you know about linux/ubuntu?
<locodir-user> not much really
<locodir-user> i get a friend in argetnina who was my support
<locodir-user> sorry about that...
<ibeardslee> ahh ok .. can you summarise what the output was?
<ibeardslee> mainly after things that have /dev/ in them
<locodir-user> sda1 during installation uuid=8b69687d6-8d4b-4837-96eb-bba3e93f29fe /
<locodir-user> ext4 errors=remount
<locodir-user> swap was on /dev/sda5 during installation
<locodir-user> UUID= 25bac448-fa27-44c0-b6f1-6b7b0b1613bc none    swap     sw
<ibeardslee> heh .. don't actually need all those letter/numbers ;)
<locodir-user> sorry
<ibeardslee> np
<ibeardslee> it'd have saved you a bit of time if I'd mentioned it
<locodir-user> its ok
<ibeardslee> is that all of them?
<locodir-user> yes
<ibeardslee> ok .. now  'df -h'
<ibeardslee> just looking for the one entry in that .. probably the top one that is '/' in the mounted on column
<ibeardslee> and number in the 'Avail' column
<locodir-user> i got lost... sorry...
<ibeardslee> ok .. now type  'df -h'
<ibeardslee> we want to make sure you haven't run out of space (one of the reasons a upgrade will die, although it shouldn't)
<locodir-user> its says waiting for data, is that ok?
<ibeardslee> not ideal
<locodir-user> sorry, but is there any place where i can take the computer because i'm not so helpfull
<ibeardslee> not sure who I could point you to in the next couple of days
<ibeardslee> my worry about pointing you to a random computer shop could mean that you are stuck with someone who only knows windows
<locodir-user> i was worried about the same
<locodir-user> here in the library they told us that maybe in the waikato university there is a group that helps with ubuntu
<ibeardslee> oh true, one of the key user groups is based there
<locodir-user> can we go there and ask for some help??
<ibeardslee> not sure
<kcj[work]> There's a whole channel on this network that helps with Ubuntu.
<ibeardslee> locodir-user: I'm asking around to see if someone can give you some hands on attention
<locodir-user> thanks!!
<kcj[work]> I'd say.
<kcj[work]> Neat.
<ibeardslee> I'm happy to keep walking you through it remotely, but it can't be quite frustrating if you are stumbling around.
<locodir-user> yes, that's the reason because i'm asking for someone i can go with the computer...
<locodir-user> it's quite hard because i don't understand about ubuntu
<ibeardslee> yeah I can understand
<locodir-user> well, i must leave the computer, thanks for everithing!!! sorry for don't understand!!!
<ibeardslee> np .. probably best bet to try a computer shop to see if they can help
<ibeardslee> sorry I can't really help beyond that
<locodir-user> np!!... i will try that!! thank you!!!
<G> ouch, powered on a laptop, still running 12.10
<ibeardslee> eww
<G> exactly
<G> The odd thing though, based on the file creation times it seems that it was put on in Aug 13, so it should've had 13.04
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<kcj> Morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-09-02
<fmarier> so it looks like systemd is going to fix everything that sucks in distros http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2014/debconf14/webm/A_glimpse_into_a_systemd_future.webm
<G> fmarier: is that the 'systemd-will-do-everything-by-btrfs' thing?
<fmarier> G: no it's more like "systemd-is-adding-new-daemons-and-tools-to-fix-all-the-problems-we-run-into"
<G> fmarier: oh right, I'll have to watch that then
<fmarier> for e.g. something to automatically create system users as needed, which will replace the dirty hacks that we have to put in maintainer scripts at the moment
<fmarier> i'm looking forward to that particular one
<G> The latest one is http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html
<fmarier> hm, i might indeed need to grab a large cup of tea before reading that one
<G> Yeah, re-reading it, I can see the logic, but I'm currently cringing at the idea of such things as "what happens when you add NFS to the mix" etc
<fmarier> surely systemd will rewrite NFS ;)
<olly> If systemd does solve all our problems, it'll just replace them with a whole new set of problems
<G> don't.. joke.. about it :P
<olly> Like pulse audio did
<olly> Except without solving anything afaics
<G> yeah, Pulseaudio kinda-works for me, but ALSA/ESD worked better imo
<G> tbh, I find the Windows audio subsystems more problem inducing than Pulse these days
<olly> It does seem better behaved these days
<olly> Ubuntu pushed it too soon which didn't help
<G> olly: yeah, Fedora also pushed it way too early as well
<mwhudson> lennart is a bit of a nutter, but bits of esd were written by rasterman and he's definitely worse :)
<G> true, esd was certainly worse than ALSA
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-09-03
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-09-04
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<kcj[work]> Morning.
#ubuntu-nz 2014-09-05
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-09-07
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> morning
<ajmitch> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-08-31
<olly> morning
<ibeardslee> morning, and a lovely spring morning it isn't
<olly> i've seen worse
#ubuntu-nz 2015-09-01
<olly> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<hads> morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-09-03
<olly> afternoon
<ibeardslee> oh yeah .. morning
<chilts> good day
#ubuntu-nz 2015-09-05
<atamira2> finally. i couldnt remember the right name for this channel
#ubuntu-nz 2015-09-06
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-09-07
<ibeardslee> morning
<hads> cmorning
<ibeardslee> chilly down your way?
<hads> Indeed, was throwing wood on the fire just before. Quite stormy out.
#ubuntu-nz 2016-09-08
<ibeardslee> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-09-09
<hads> morning
<ajmitch> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2017-09-06
<chilts> morning
<chilts> which I haven't done for a long time!
 * chilts wonders if that still happens around here
<ibeardslee> sometimes
<ibeardslee> how is life?
<chilts> good, tiring, busy (like everyone in the world), but fulfilling
<chilts> you?
<ibeardslee> goodly, getting next year's academy underway, looking forward to the garden/sun over summer
#ubuntu-nz 2017-09-07
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2017-09-10
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> yes, morning
