#ubuntu-tn-meeting 2010-11-10
<ChemsOnline> salam nizarus
<nizarus> ahla ChemsOnline
<ChemsOnline> nizarus, t'aurai un conseil, des remarques ou suggestion pour que je prÃ©sente kangoulya.org ou kibinti.org ou tunileaks.org ou partipirate-tn.org ou n'importe quel autre ndd sur ce projet ? quel forme de support pour le depot de la candidature ? format papier ? clÃ© usb ? stickers ou carte de visite ? et si  un dossier papier sous quelle forme ? des exemples ? Ã§a C dÃ©jÃ  fait ? une idÃ©e ?
#ubuntu-tn-meeting 2013-11-09
<elacheche_anis> Bonsoir willieseabrook & lunapersa :) :)
<lunapersa> Bonsoir
<lunapersa> @ tous
<lunapersa> :D
<elacheche_anis> D'accord, juste pour info, on aime bien que le log de cet chennel irc reste clean, pour qu'on peut l'utiliser dans nos rapports (je parle des deux commuanutÃ© lÃ  :) ) :) alors nous discuterons ici que les points qu'on a pas discuter sur la ML, et pour le questions et les chat on peut les faire sur #ubuntu-tn ou #drupal-tunisia
<lunapersa> Parfait :)
<elacheche_anis> Alors, on commence?
<elacheche_anis> Je pense qu'on va se baser sur ce mail: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-tn/2013-October/013161.html
<willieseabrook> oui
<lunapersa> d'accord :)
<elacheche_anis> willieseabrook, vous avez des remarques concernant le mail? Tu pense qu'on doit ajouter quelque chose?
<willieseabrook> yes, some things
 * elacheche_anis va pas utiliser le systÃ¨me de demande de parole traditionel des meetings car on est dÃ©jÃ  4 et y a pas un risque de trolling
<elacheche_anis> ok willieseabrook
<willieseabrook> i think my primary concern is ensuring we have stable internet during the event
<willieseabrook> i saw you suggested a package mirror
<willieseabrook> so i guess to enumerate some questions
<elacheche_anis> go ahead
<willieseabrook> 1. how exactly will the package mirror work
<willieseabrook> 1.a how will this work in with the fact we will be using orange and tunisiana usb dongles to access the internet
<willieseabrook> 2. have you used your proposed system configuration before (how confident are you the approach will work on the day)
<elacheche_anis> Ok, the mirror will be used as an APT proxy.. so apt will not connect directly to the internet but will connect to the apt-cacher server(it can be any pc) apt-cacher will download all the packages that we need for lamp stack, so if an other pc will try to download them the packages will be served from the apt-cacher server
<elacheche_anis> look at the graph http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/_media/image/apt-cacher-server.png?w=450
<elacheche_anis> If we have a stable internet connection that can download the lamp server package for one time we can use the same packages for all the other pcs
<willieseabrook> like this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Apt-Cacher-Server
<willieseabrook> ?
<elacheche_anis> there is an other way to do that without using apt-cacher... we can download lamp stack one in a ubuntu fresh installation then we share the debs using the lan or usb keys then installing them using sudo dpkg -i *.deb
<elacheche_anis> yes willieseabrook that's it.. but the installation and the configuration is much easier than what they write in the wiki
<elacheche_anis> http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/apt-cacher
<Drupalizer> just another question : Are you going to create a local network ?
<willieseabrook> i don't think that *was* planned, but i think it *should* be planned
<elacheche_anis> I was thinking that the room will have already an lan?! :o there is no lan in the city or sciences?! :o
<elacheche_anis> ?
<willieseabrook> no, last time they said no
<willieseabrook> there is wifi, but it is a joke
<willieseabrook> worse than dialup
<elacheche_anis> We can use a wireless AP to serve our wlan.. So in this case the pc that will be connected to the internet will share it via wifi
<Drupalizer> Sharing connections I have a good Wireless card we can use it as AP
<Drupalizer> ALPHA AWUS036H
<elacheche_anis> ok.. in the worst cases we'll drop any online solution and use the offline solution: <elacheche_anis> there is an other way to do that without using apt-cacher... we can download lamp stack one in a ubuntu fresh installation then we share the debs using the lan or usb keys then installing them using sudo dpkg -i *.deb
<elacheche_anis> We need to prepare the two solutions :) if s1 don't work we switch to s2
<willieseabrook> with pfsense + computer with 3 lan ports + 2 usb dongles with lan adapters + wireless ap we can build a good network
<willieseabrook> see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5COzizaMYQ for the pfsense side
<willieseabrook> we MUST have working internet
<elacheche_anis> Yes I'm ok.. but I think that there is no ubuntu-tn member in Tunis that can helps you building that :/ unfortunately I'm in sousse :/
<willieseabrook> i've spoken to the angry cactus and he's happy to pay for any tech we need to buy
<Drupalizer> ^^
<willieseabrook> bonsoir rached
<rached> bonsoir willieseabrook :)
<elacheche_anis> hey rached :)
<rached> bonsoir Ã  tous
<rached> hey elacheche_anis  :)
<Drupalizer> bsr rached
<lunapersa> Bonsoir :)
<rached> dsl pour le retard !
<rached> bonsoir lunapersa :)
<elacheche_anis> So willieseabrook who can build that?? Drupalizer or you?
<willieseabrook> its possible i could do it
<willieseabrook> I've not done network stuff for a while, maybe it would take me a day
<willieseabrook> so it's possible
<Drupalizer> I am up for it as well :)
<elacheche_anis> Ok, or you can just share Internet via you're laptop wifi without any of the other things
<willieseabrook> well ultimately my laptop must access the internet somehow
<Drupalizer> Yeah but I think we still need cache server because of the down speed :) and packages size
<elacheche_anis> it can be done vi the netwok manager
<elacheche_anis> the apt-cacher need just apache.. So I don't think that'll be a big problem if we have a shared Internet vi wlan
<Drupalizer> good
<elacheche_anis> rached, lunapersa any other thoughts??
<elacheche_anis> willieseabrook, any other questions before we move on to the planing :D
<lunapersa> no
<willieseabrook> that is my question on internet for now. i think it's the major risk factor at the moment - an install party without internet
<willieseabrook> i'm happy to discuss planning the actual install stuff, and we can come back to the internet afterwards. i'm doing some research now
<Drupalizer> ok
<elacheche_anis> Ok.. for the install party, we'll use Live USBs.. we don't have a LoCo pack :(
<elacheche_anis> Or we burn some CDs for the event.. I can do that if you think that the usb solution will cause some problems :/
<rached> elacheche_anis: may be we could use one of the  "ADSL pack" that the CLLFSM or Netlinks won on the SFD !
<elacheche_anis> rached, how? O_o
<Drupalizer> I believe USB faster ^^ but how many you can provide ?
<rached> we sould just ask them :)
<elacheche_anis> Can't understand what you mean rached :) How can we use the ADSL pack in the City of Science?
<rached> elacheche_anis: yep : i'm sorry, I didn't pay attention :p
<elacheche_anis> LoooL.. So we'll use willieseabrook's solution :) 3G + Sharing
<Drupalizer> +1 ^^
<willieseabrook> do you guys have any 3g keys?
<rached> no
<willieseabrook> ok, we have 2
<willieseabrook> that's 10 concurrent connections (5 each) in theory
<elacheche_anis> I have 2GB data to use in my phone.. we can use my phone to provide 3G too..
<willieseabrook> for the install, the ubuntu guys will bring bootable cds to install from?
<elacheche_anis> willieseabrook, we don't have a LoCo pack for now :/ But I can burn some CDs
<elacheche_anis> Or we can use Live USBs, Ok, about the question of Drupalizer, we can create USB keys for the persons who needs them, we can have 30min of usb live creation before the Install Party
<elacheche_anis> Any ways we'll use Ubuntu 12.04.3 LTS
<willieseabrook> bienvenue tarekdj
<tarekdj> merci willieseabrook :)
<elacheche_anis> willieseabrook, If we'll use USBs so there will be no problem.. we'll share the same image before the Install Party.. Or I'll burn 20 or 30 CDs.. Do we know the many people will be present?
<Drupalizer> elacheche_anis I think yeah having both options is better ^^
<willieseabrook> more options is always safter
<willieseabrook> *always safer
<elacheche_anis> +1
<elacheche_anis> Do we know the many people will be present?
<tarekdj> +1 usb + cd
<willieseabrook> awesome, all agreed on that then
<willieseabrook> we don't know how many will come. how many do you think we will get if we start promoting the event on Facebook on monday.
<elacheche_anis> willieseabrook, I can be sure that will be at least 1/2 the number of personnes that will hit the "going" button
<elacheche_anis> may be 1/3 or 1/4 :D
<rached> more than the last time : that's for sure
<rached> because there will be a "training"
<willieseabrook> so the stats from our last drupal meet up. on Facebook, 271 said yes they would come, 91 said maybe
<willieseabrook> and we got 70 coming
<willieseabrook> so to estimate, we should use the following figure
<willieseabrook> 70/362 = 20% of Facebook registrations
<elacheche_anis> :D
<willieseabrook> well I'm just happy we have the number. the first time we have *no idea*
<elacheche_anis> How many seats do we have in the room?
<willieseabrook> enough seats and tables for 60-70 people
<willieseabrook> i think enough seats for around 90 - 100 people
<willieseabrook> but only enough tables to comfortably seat 60 or 70 i estimate
<elacheche_anis> ok
<willieseabrook> so we were thinking we would split off visitors onto tables of 5 - 7 people, with 1 - 2 leaders from ubuntu/drupal
<willieseabrook> and then just help people through the process
<willieseabrook> is that a good way to do it? ubuntu has much more experience in this, so i will do what you suggest
<elacheche_anis> that'll be the perfect choice
<elacheche_anis> Yes yes.. We was thinking about the same thing too..
<Drupalizer> good ^^
<elacheche_anis> After 5 or 10 min of presentation we start the workshops with separated groups..
<elacheche_anis> willieseabrook, the event starts @09am??
<willieseabrook> well i was thinking that all the organisers arrive around 9am. then we have people come from 11:00am onwards
<willieseabrook> we say on the promotion, "you are welcome to arrive from 11:00am to 3:00pm. do not arrive later than 3:00pm if you want to finish"
<willieseabrook> that way we:
<willieseabrook> 1. leaders get to meet and plan and prepare before people arrive
<elacheche_anis> Ok, we'll have just 3 workshops ( ubunu install party, lamp stack installation, drupal installation) ??
<willieseabrook> 2. we don't get overwhelmed by everyone coming all at the same time
<elacheche_anis> Ok (like that), we'll have just 3 workshops ( ubunu install party, lamp stack installation, drupal installation) ??
<willieseabrook> should we even do seperate "workshops"? or just ensure that there's always at least 1 ubuntu expert sitting with each group, 1 lamp expert, 1 drupal expert etc
<elacheche_anis> What do you mean by separate workshops?
<willieseabrook> you said: "we'll have just 3 workshops ( ubunu install party, lamp stack installation, drupal installation) "
<willieseabrook> ahhhh. maybe you mean 3 separate areas. 1 area where people are generally installing ubuntu. then they get up and move to the 2nd area where they generally install lamp. then the 3rd area for drupal?
<Drupalizer> No I dont agree with that willieseabrook
<elacheche_anis> I thinkvthat we need to start them one by one 1.ubunu install party, 2.lamp stack installation, 3.drupal installation
<elacheche_anis> And in that case yes there will be a druapl expert and an ubuntu-tn member in every groupe to help them..
<willieseabrook> so everyone who comes starts at the same time? so we should say everyone must arrive at 11am (or 10am etc)
<willieseabrook> i'm not sure i understand what you suggest
<elacheche_anis> yes..
<Drupalizer> I think start installing Ubuntu / Lamp after finishing start installing Drupal
<Drupalizer> no need to separate or move to another table ^^
<elacheche_anis> So everybody will install ubuntu, then install lamp then install drupal..
<Drupalizer> Just An Ubuntu / Drupal guys jumping from a table to another
<Drupalizer> mentoring :)
<Drupalizer> any suggestion ?
<willieseabrook> ok, so we need to ensure that we say on the promotion that everyone must arrive at a specific time
<elacheche_anis> That's it..
<willieseabrook> what do we do if people come late? some people could come in after an hour or 2 late
<Drupalizer> willieseabrook I think anyone come will be served from 11 to 3 pm
<willieseabrook> lol i'm so confused. but elacheche_anis said that we must start everyone at the same time, installing ubuntu. then we do a presentation and everyone at the same time installs lamp. then we do a presentation and then everyone installs drupal
<willieseabrook> (that's not my suggestion, that's my *understanding* of what everyone else is suggesting)
<elacheche_anis> Yes that's what I was thinking about..
<elacheche_anis> But you're right if some people come late, how can we react :/
<Drupalizer> we cant grantie that everyone gonna come on time
<elacheche_anis> rached, lunapersa, kawarizmi any ideas?
<Drupalizer> Workshop is dynamic
<Drupalizer> Anyone will come will be served :)
<Drupalizer> but from 11 am to 3 pm
<rached> we have to serve all the pepole all the time but we should make sure that those who will came late will not disturbe the presentations or make a big noise
<willieseabrook> rached then those who come late will be forced to wait and do nothing
<willieseabrook> we could run a series of sessions. for example, a new group starts every hour
<elacheche_anis> How about: we start everyone at the same time, installing ubuntu. then we do a presentation and everyone at the same time installs lamp. then we do a presentation and then everyone installs drupal.. But first we split the people to groups, every group will have mentors, mentors we'll assist one of each group and he will mentor the rest of the group..
<Drupalizer> I still think every one come can join a table and other guys can help him
<willieseabrook> i have a proposal that fits both of these ideas
<elacheche_anis> go ahead
<willieseabrook> one that helps us show people in large groups, but also allows for dynamic learning and people coming through the day
<willieseabrook> i will type it now, 2 mins
<elacheche_anis> ok
<willieseabrook> the room is large, and can be split into two rooms with a type of half sound proof wall. in the first half of the room, it is run presentation style. with 3 presentations. 11:00am ubuntu install live on screen, step by step. 12:30 lamp install live on screen, 2:00 drupal install live on screen). but in the other half, we have full communal tables, where anyone can come and go without disturbing the presentation (because of the
<willieseabrook> separating wall) and there they can get full help after the presentation.
<willieseabrook> so
<willieseabrook> 1. we ask that anyone who wants to be a leader arrives at 9:30am.
<willieseabrook> 2. anyone who wants to have their laptop installed can come between 11:00am to 3:00pm, advising them that the whole process will take around 3 hours, and that they must not arrive after 3:00pm (if they want to finish before the end of the day. they are still welcome to come, but just not with the expectation of finishing)
<willieseabrook> 3. that there are three session starting times: 11:00am ubuntu install. 12:30 lamp install, 2:00pm drupal install
<willieseabrook> for the leaders at 9:30am, we can all meeting each other and chat, and prepare and agree exactly what we will teach and how
<elacheche_anis> +1
<lunapersa> +1  aussi
<elacheche_anis> The leaders must be members of Drupal-Tunisia or utn?
<willieseabrook> anyone, drupal tunisia, ubuntu tunisia
<rached> +1
<elacheche_anis> And if we'll have 30 leaders :D !?
<willieseabrook> it's more "anyone with skills they want to share"
<willieseabrook> thats what i mean by leader
<willieseabrook> they should have enough skills to be able to help noobs
<elacheche_anis> Ok.. So we need to say that in the event announcement
<willieseabrook> cool, we'll email a draft of that on monday morning, before we post it on facebook
<willieseabrook> are ubuntu team going to share it on their pages and groups?
<elacheche_anis> Ok.. So everyone who think that he can help noobs he comes @ 9am30 and we teach them what we'll do?!
<willieseabrook> yes, i think thats best
<elacheche_anis> willieseabrook, You can create the FB event usgin DT page or your own FB account, then add me or Ubuntu-tn (the page) as host so we can spread the info as Ubuntu-tn..
<willieseabrook> awesome. karim will create the event, then add us as admins
<elacheche_anis> For as we must create w wiki page & an event in our loco directory..
<willieseabrook> at our last drupal event, we also collected names and experience levels in drupal. so the people who said they had (a) a lot of drupal experience and (b) would like to help at events, karim will also be calling them to ask them to come as leaders. as an extra push to encourage them to get involved
<elacheche_anis> Ok :D I can help installing drupal too :D I was using it since 2010 and my blog using Drupal :D
<willieseabrook> i can help installing ubuntu too. without ubuntu, drupal would suck :D
<elacheche_anis> :D We're the same team :D
<willieseabrook> so, back to the network, i've been doing some research
<Drupalizer> -1 ^^
<Drupalizer> still dont agree on presentations live install on a video projector and separation :)
<willieseabrook> does anybody have an old PC with at least 3 PCI slots, preferably 4 (for 3 or 4 network ports)
<willieseabrook> Drupalizer anyone who doesn't want to join in on them, doesn't have to. they can stay in the communal area
<Drupalizer> Okay
<willieseabrook> someone could come and stay all day just hanging out and helping/coding/hacking whatever, without attending a single presentation
<willieseabrook> we're going to have a difficult time to buy a PC with 3-4 network cards, within 1 week in tunis
<elacheche_anis> willieseabrook, did you look at the easiest way to share 3G via WiFi using the Ubuntu Network Manager?? :D :D
<Drupalizer> I have a good wireless card
<willieseabrook> elacheche_anis sharing the wifi is not a problem, we have shareable wifi from tunisiana
<Drupalizer> USB
<willieseabrook> the live3g things, they create a wifi network for up to 5 computes
<willieseabrook> that's not a problem. the problem is that they only allow 5 connections, and that we need to also connect them to a package cache
<elacheche_anis> :/ I never try the live3G solution so can't really help from here, sorry :/ :(
<Drupalizer> Ok here it is what I mean
<Drupalizer> I use the orange USB in a computer which gonna be an AP
<Drupalizer> sharing connection for more than 5 Pc's
<Drupalizer> ^^
<willieseabrook> yes, that's possible
<willieseabrook> but then we still only have a single 3g connection for up to 50 computers
<willieseabrook> we also need an apt-cache server and possibly also a caching proxy server
<willieseabrook> like squid
<elacheche_anis> :/
<willieseabrook> http://itkia.com/using-squid-to-cache-apt-updates-for-debian-and-ubuntu/
<elacheche_anis> good..
<elacheche_anis> Would you like to ask in our ML if someone from Tunis can help you on that?
<willieseabrook> yea, we need a reliable computer supplier
<willieseabrook> i look online, and it looks like we can buy a computer for ~500 dinars
<willieseabrook> but we can't afford to wait for them to get one from a supplier. we need to be able to walk in and buy it
<willieseabrook> then Drupalizer I'll buy that shit access point i found (a bad access point is better than no access point)
<willieseabrook> then we can set it up in a day, and we should be OK
<Drupalizer> Ok willieseabrook
<elacheche_anis> Ok..
<willieseabrook> hopefully this will work
<willieseabrook> oh yea, Drupalizer before we buy we should ask Dali if he has a spare computer
<willieseabrook> he may have other computers at home that he hasn't taken into the office yet
<Drupalizer> Yep
<willieseabrook> this is what we need
<willieseabrook> http://www.startech.com/Networking-IO/Adapter-Cards/4-Port-PCI-Express-Gigabit-Ethernet-NIC-Network-Adapter-Card~ST1000SPEX4
<elacheche_anis> Good luck to find it :/
<willieseabrook> yea lol. that was more me expressing a dream
<willieseabrook> not a statement of reality
<willieseabrook> :D
<elacheche_anis> x)
<elacheche_anis> So.. Did we discuss all the points or there is something else?
<willieseabrook> i think everything has been discussed for now
<willieseabrook> unless someone else has something to say?
<willieseabrook> what URL do these chats get logged to elacheche_anis?
<elacheche_anis> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/09/%23ubuntu-tn-meeting.html
<elacheche_anis> The bot will finishing his job after we quitte the channel :D
<Drupalizer> good
<elacheche_anis> There is a text version too if you don't like html
<elacheche_anis> So, if ther is something else we can discuss it via the ML utn, there is no dtn ML?
<willieseabrook> no stn mailing list yet
<willieseabrook> *DTN
<willieseabrook> it's on our TODO list
<elacheche_anis> :D
<elacheche_anis> Ok then.. We finish here :D Thank you very much willieseabrook :D I'm so glad to have this discussion with you :D thanks to Drupalizer, rachedn kawarizmi and lunapersa too :D
<kawarizmi> Ø­Ø¸Ø§ Ø·ÙØ¨Ø§
<Drupalizer> yw ^^
<lunapersa> ^^
<willieseabrook> thanks to everyone. this was great. i'm very excited to be working together
<willieseabrook> next saturday will be fun!
<rached> you're welcome ;)
<Drupalizer> and Thanks everyone
<Drupalizer> G.N
<elacheche_anis> Would you please quite the channel :D So ubuntulog2 can finish his job :D :D :D we switch to #druapl-tunisia and/or #ubuntu-tn :D
