#ubuntu-design 2012-09-25
<snwh> mpt it was suggested I ought talk to you about mockups I've done, regaring unity settings in Ubuntu: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/main.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications2.png
<mpt> snwh, that icons URL <https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/status-spheres-screenshot.png> gives me a 404.
<mpt> now, to the settings panel
<snwh> mpt, that one's gone so it'll 404
<mpt> snwh, if an Ubuntu user sees the word "Unity" anywhere in the UI, we've screwed up.
<snwh> "Dash" then?
<snwh> since it's present in the UI already
<mpt> We have names for specific elements -- Dash, Launcher, menu bar, windows, notification bubbles, etc -- and that's unavoidable, but there's no reason for people to know that some those elements are part of "Unity" and some aren't.
<mpt> "Dash" would be fine, yes.
<mpt> <https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/main.png>: Have you considered making the Dash settings part of the "Appearance" tab? There are pros and cons to doing that.
<snwh> I think that was briefly discussed when I sent these through unity-design ML
<snwh> would it not be more easily found if it were out front -as it were?
<mpt> Yes, it would
<mpt> I designed a separate "Launcher & Menus" panel a while ago for the same reason
<mpt> (back when we were considering making the menu bar more configurable)
<snwh> such as the infamous autohide menu.
<mpt> So that would be one of the cons. The pro is that it would avoid panel proliferation, with the ugly orphan effect in your mockup.
<mpt> (orphan = the last item on a row by itself)
<snwh> and we don't want to stretch it again as for U1
<mpt> Unfortunately the hard work of merging panels isn't as sexy as creating new ones
<mpt> <https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png>: I don't know what "Dash Form Factor" means, and I doubt other people would either :-)
<mpt> The menu label is far too far away from the menu -- it should be 12px or so
<mpt> "Search Results" looks awkward as a heading when it's the only heading in the panel.
<mpt> I've found a good heuristic when designing is that if you're repeating a word several times, you can usually factor it out.
<mpt> What's the repeated word here, and how could you solve that and the single-heading problem at the same time?
<snwh> Well "Lens"
<snwh> a title i suppose
<snwh> I wasn't sure about the labeling but to differentiate lens from scopes
<mpt> I think "Lens" and (especially) "Scope" falls into the same category as "Unity" :-)
<mpt> but actually I was looking at the main area of the "Dash Home" sub-panel specifically
<snwh> I thought of putting it in since installable lens and scopes appear in the Software center with that as a label
<snwh> Ah "results"
<mpt> "Search Results", "Amazon results", "Ubuntu One Music Store results"
<mpt> bingo
<mpt> So, how could you fix that?
<snwh> i had a version without, but thought if its too much i'll be told to remove it
<snwh> drop it entirely?
<mpt> That's one way. How else?
<snwh> scrap it and put the Amazon and U1 store scopes on the left?
<mpt> That's a possibility, but I'm not sure what would go in the main area in that case. How else?
<snwh> putting me on the spot. I'm blanking
<snwh> if the header was gone.. and just the checkboxes..?
<mpt> snwh, if someone asked you what these checkboxes do, what would you say?
<snwh> Unchecking would prevent Amazon results from appearing in the Dash home
<snwh> for example
<mpt> And what would checking them do?
<snwh> show the results
<mpt> good
<snwh> a switch
<mpt> Those are good words to use in a label
<mpt> When searching, show results from:
<mpt> [/] Amazon
<mpt> [/] Ubuntu One Music Store
<mpt> Since it shows results from your PC as well, perhaps "include" would be even better than "show".
<snwh> of course
<mpt> <https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications2.png>
<mpt> snwh, would there be a "Show results in Dash Home" checkbox for every lens?
<snwh> something along those lines
<mpt> Can you think of a drawback to presenting settings for the Dash Home contents that way?
<snwh> if a user wanted to hide the results from the home, but not disable the lens entirely
<snwh> not knowing which are disabled
<mpt> right
<mpt> It would be difficult to see, at a glance, which items might appear and which wouldn't.
<mpt> You'd have to navigate to each item in the list and then look at its "Show results in Dash Home" checkbox.
<mpt> How might you make that quicker?
<snwh> a massive checklist
<snwh> perhaps under home settings
<snwh> would a tree view be too much
<mpt> Ah, but you already have a tree view there :-)
<mpt> How about using the same one?
<snwh> but with an indication of which are disable
<snwh> -ed*
<mpt> That would work
<mpt> Or, you could move the checkbox itself into a column of the treeview.
<snwh> of course
<snwh> this is why youre the professional
<mpt> heh
<mpt> With regard to Unity, we're both interested bystanders. :-)
<snwh> i was concerned with the advent of more and more lenses this is a missing feature
<mpt> yes indeed
<snwh> but beyond my skills to try myself
<bizhanMona> HI all, according to this URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035445.html  Ubuntu is planning to not to use GRUB 2 for UEFI secure boot. Is this still standing? Thx
<bizhanMona> HI all, according to this URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035445.html  Ubuntu is planning to not to use GRUB 2 for UEFI secure boot. Is this still standing? Thx
<snwh> well mpt, i shall fix the mockups
<me4oslav> bizhanMona Try asking on just #ubuntu ... I guess :)
<mpt> snwh, good work. Thanks for getting involved.
<snwh> mpt, thanks for taking the time
<snwh> to set me straight
<snwh> heh
<mpt> bizhanMona, this isn't really the appropriate channel for that, but no. <http://blog.canonical.com/2012/09/20/quetzal-is-taking-flight-update-on-ubuntu-secure-boot-plans/>
<mpt> bizhanMona, if you have more questions after reading that, I suggest asking in #ubuntu-devel.
<mpt> (Though I see you already got the same answer in #ubuntu-desktop.)
<bizhanMona> mpt: thanks I placed the question on a few ubuntu- channels at the same time, I was not sure which one is the appropriate place. Now i know. thank you.
<mpt> np
<snwh> alright, mpt some improvements made: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications.png
<mpt> snwh, nice work
<mpt> snwh, all the panels are settings panels, so "Dash Settings" might be a little redundant :-)
<mpt> What choices would be available in the "Dash size:" menu?
<snwh> I was thinging full-screen, reduced(?) and automatic
<snwh> think*
<mpt> snwh, do you know what "Automatic" does?
<snwh> Would choose either full-screen or reduced depending on the screen size.
<snwh> i guess its not clear to an end user
<snwh> "Adapt-to-screen"
<mpt> so, there are three options
<mpt> Do you think a menu is the best way to present those three options?
<snwh> radio buttons?
<mpt> yep
<mpt> Open the Dash: ( ) Full screen  (*) Reduced on large screens
<mpt> or something like that
<mpt> (maybe "Dash size:" would actually be clearer for that)
<mpt> I guess the "Home" lens item shouldn't have a checkbox at all, eh
<mpt> but the rest of them need a column heading to explain what the checkboxes are for
<mpt> What could that be
<mpt> Oh, I left out the "Automatic" option
<mpt> for the Dash size
<snwh> well the checkbox is to invoke the status of the lens/scope
<mpt> If there are three or more options, radio buttons shouldn't be laid out horizontally -- in this case because they wouldn't fit, but in general because it would mean they were differing distances apart
<snwh> so: "Enabled" as a column
<mpt> but there's plenty of room here to go vertical
<snwh> but doesnt a checkbox have the implicit meaning of whatever it does is enabled or not?
<mpt> Size for the Dash when opened: (*) Automatic
<mpt>                                ( ) Full screen
<mpt>                                ( ) Reduced on smaller screens
<mpt> or something
<snwh> the radio buttons wouldnt go under the label?
<mpt> they could, depending on the width
<snwh> okay
<mpt> snwh, yes indeed, "Enable", like "Enabled", is best avoided -- invariably it can be rewritten more meaningfully
<mpt> I guess a fully explanatory heading would be "Include in Home Results"
<mpt> I wonder if that could be shorter
<snwh> but then Home is under "Include in Home results" which is paradoxical
<mpt> That's okay if it doesn't have a checkbox
<snwh> okay
<snwh> mpt, could the radio buttons go something like this: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png
<mpt> snwh, yep
<mpt> snwh, the radio buttons was just an idea ... it depends partly on how much space is available, and partly on how important the setting is
<snwh> well the "window controls" do exist when the dash is present
<snwh> mpt, i think we're getting somewhere https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-home.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/unity-settings-panel-applications.png
<mpt> Progress indeed
<me4oslav> I just came to say, that snwh's speed of creating mockups is to infinity and beyond. **flies away**
<snwh> the HUD is very useful in GIMP
<mpt> snwh, I need to concentrate on messaging menu stuff now, but I'd be interested to see how the rest of the screens look tomorrow perhaps
<mpt> snwh, also, has didrocks seen your work?
<snwh> no didrocks hasnt
<snwh> i could have the other screens completed
<snwh> mpt, i did have a thought on the messaging menu though -regarding icons
<mpt> snwh, ah, were you the one who did the colored envelopes?
<snwh> yes
<mpt> The tricky thing is that we are trying to communicate two different things with the icon
<mpt> (1) whether you have new (important) messages or not
<mpt> (2) what your chat status is
<mpt> Currently we're using the color of the envelope for (1), and the emblem for (2).
<mpt> You use the color of the envelope for (2), which gives up (1) altogether as far as I can see.
<snwh> what if the envelop were to blink?
<mpt> I think that would be unpleasant, because you may want to leave it for hours
<snwh> true
<mpt> (Actually I think it used to blink, briefly, for a while in the 9.10/10.04 era)
<mpt> (and sabdfl rightly scotched it)
<snwh> i fail to recall that..
<me4oslav> what if only a part of the envelope is coloured in-some-colour?
<snwh> my thought was to use the colours since the new message blue would still convey its meaning and revert to the green or what have you when read.
<mpt> me4oslav, that's pretty much what the emblem achieves -- with the benefit that it's using miniatures of the same icons Empathy uses itself.
<mpt> The problem with the current icons, I think, is that the emblems don't stand out strongly enough against the envelope. That's partly a problem of color (not bright enough), partly size (a little too small), and partly outline (maybe the envelope should have an emblem-shaped chunk cut out of it).
<snwh> the different shapes are a bit garish, if they were all circles? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/status-spheres-screenshot.png
<me4oslav> mpt - I think (major rajor personal opinion) that this colourful emblem is a bit too much (could be very wrong, through)
<mpt> snwh, with both the envelope and the emblem, the differing shapes helps people who are color blind
<mpt> (or have lesser color impairments)
<mpt> However, they are a bit *too* different in size right now
<mpt> e.g. the triangle looks much larger than the square
<snwh> very true
<snwh> if the emblem was within the circle?
<snwh> then the overlay would be too small
<snwh> mpt, what is it was no longer an envelope?
<snwh> if*
<snwh> but i suppose thats the most familiar metaphor
<snwh> answering my own questions.
<mpt> snwh, yes, it could be a speech bubble or something instead
<snwh> like the good ol' me menu of the past, heh
<mpt> yep
<mpt> (which is fair enough, since it is a merger)
<mpt> oh, wtf
<mpt> OMG Ubuntu, a week ago: "Where no chat accounts are enabled youâll still be stuck with an annoying green dot (to denote âonline)."
<mpt> And nobody thought to report a bug about that?
<snwh> i noticed that with my green envelope thing, but thought it was something i'd done
<mpt> (reported bug 1056457)
<snwh> mpt, how about shapes like this? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-menu.png
<mpt> snwh, that looks okay, except that now you're showing chat status in two different ways
<mpt> (a) color of the envelope, and (b) color+shape of the status icon
<me4oslav> mpt snwh - In case you haven't seen it: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/09/is-an-off-switch-for-the-shopping-lens-in-the-works
<mpt> :-)
<snwh> I only changed the shapes, just now. havent touched the envelopes
<snwh> Geez Joey is everywhere
<mpt> If Joey was here, I would scowl at him here for not reporting that bug
<mpt> snwh, I reported http://launchpad.net/bugs/1056488 about the messaging menu icons
 * mpt -> home
<me4oslav> mpt you've at the office 'til 11.37?
<me4oslav> O.o
<me4oslav> PM that is
<mpt> yeah, I was sick this morning so started at 3pm
<mpt> anyway, toodle pip
<snwh> All the way over here in Canada it's only 639pm
<me4oslav> 1.40 AM ... had 4 coffees today, can't sleep ... oh well, I can always start work bit later tmrw :)
<snwh> me4oslav, indeed you can
<snwh> that sounds like my usual coffee consumption
<me4oslav> So, that's what the secret about the mockups is :D
<snwh> me4oslav, how to you like these circles? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/status-spheres-screenshot2.png
<me4oslav> snwh - circlesepcion on invisible :P
<snwh> easy to do in inkscape
<snwh> i thought of an infinity symbol for busy
<me4oslav> let's steal Skype's - tick on a grey circle and see what happens
<me4oslav> BTW, after those two are done (Dash in System Settings and messaging menu icons) mind mocking up a sound menu design, I have in on pen ana paper (better than the last ones you've seen), I just suck at mockups.
<snwh> not a problem
<me4oslav> AWESOME. I will go to bed now (just to lie down and read some bizarre fiction), obviously I won't be able to sleep :D
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-26
<mpt> snwh, when you're back, I have some news about the Dash settings
<snwh> mpt, good news I hope :)
<mpt> snwh, do you remember yesterday how I asked you if you'd talked with didrocks?
<snwh> mpt, I do
<mpt> snwh, and do you remember how I said I wasn't involved in Unity directly?
<mpt> snwh, well, we had a bit of a mix-up
<mpt> snwh, pattoin here is a designer at Canonical who has been working on a quick fix for 12.10 for didrocks to implement.
<mpt> Yesterday and today.
<mpt> She didn't know about your work, and I didn't know about hers. :-]
<snwh> okay :)
<mpt> I showed her your work this morning, and we're interested in developing it further for 13.04
<snwh> That's awesome.
<mpt> Meanwhile, here's the design work pattoin has done for 12.10: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/presentation/d/1wcFF2Kl156c_9qmD2fCsYzO4700vuJ4T3EJ1nN9wdU4/edit?pli=1#slide=id.g2e54c4f8_2_10
<snwh> Very nice
<snwh> Privacy I would imagine is a more logical place to put it over the Appearance; it's not strictly an appearance setting or behaviour
<snwh> also, mpt, I did a couple things with messaging icons: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/messaging-menu-ambiance.png & https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/messaging-menu-radiance.png
<pattoin> snwh: Hi
<pattoin> snwh: I am Patricia, or pattoin in here
<snwh> pattoin, Hi, I'm Sam
<pattoin> mpt: has told me about you and the situation
<pattoin> snwh: thank you with your design help, it is great to meet you so we could discusse and work together
<snwh> pattoin, thanks & likewise :)
<snwh> I thought it was something within my abilities that I could try and contribute to the project.
<pattoin> snwh: yes, I have to design it quicly just yesterday and the reason why I include appeareance is because I did a quick user research and test and  some more people will change it in 'appereance'
<snwh> users are interesting folks
<pattoin> they were thinking about hiding ui
<pattoin> but the more people understand what it really means, then they will go for privacy
<snwh> I guess less familiar users will go for the former, whereas everyone else who somewhat understands it will pick privacy
<pattoin> snwh: indeed
<pattoin> anyway we can continue designing it, with your ideas for the next cycle and we have also some discussion to give a more relevant access to 'search results settings'
<pattoin> and also that the functionality of disable online content sources can be done in the dash UI itself
<pattoin> what do you think?
<snwh> I look forward to it :)
<pattoin> a lot of people when I did the small user test they thought they can just swith it off from the dash itself next to the title
<snwh> how would that be implemented?
<snwh> Since we already drag and drop to trash, perhaps a similar action as well.
<snwh> drag and drop lenses from the dash
<snwh> mpt, what if the messaging menu used the status icon and the envelope appeared as an overlay? like this: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-icon1.png
<mpt> snwh, it's quite difficult to tell that that envelope is an envelope
<mpt> the dot and the envelope are really fighting for space, in a way that they aren't if the roles are reversed
<snwh> but with the dot the envelope will only appear with a new message
<mpt> Remember, too, that a lot of the time -- possibly most of the time, once bug 1056457 is fixed -- there will be no dot
<mpt> because by default you'll have no chat accounts, therefore no chat status
<snwh> then it could just be the old envelope
<snwh> which could also be the offline/quit icon?
<mpt> An envelope that shrinks and moves whenever you go online?
<snwh> no envelope
<snwh> just the blue one
<snwh> as a "popup"
<snwh> overlay* on new message
<snwh> and only an envelope with no chat app or offline.
<mpt> You have new messages, therefore a blue envelope. You open the menu and change from Offline to Available. The blue envelope shuffles and shrinks to make way for the Available icon.
<mpt> Is that what you meant?
<snwh> this: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-icon2.png
<snwh> then https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-icon1.png for a new message
<snwh> and https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-icon3.png for offline/no chat app
<snwh> the only time a double icon would occur would be a chat status + a new message
<snwh> is what i was thinking
<mpt> What would it look like if you were offline but had new messages?
<snwh> blue envelope
<mpt> So, the blue envelope would be shuffling and shrinking in the scenario I described
<mpt> That seems weird to me, since it wouldn't be the fact that you have new messages that was changing.
<snwh> i dont understand what you mean by "shuffling and shrinking"
<mpt> Changing from its full size, into an emblem perched at the top right of the green dot.
<snwh> okay
<snwh> what if a new "new message" emblem were created?
<mpt> That could solve the problem of the envelope being hard to recognize at small sizes.
<mpt> I don't know what the rest of the icon would look like if you had no chat accounts.
<snwh> could keep the white envelope
<snwh> and use the new emblem
<snwh> so it'll be all the chat icons, plus an envelope for no chat and a new message emblem across all
<snwh> a number badge probably would be too small
<mpt> snwh, perhaps the easiest way to visualize the change you're thinking of would be to sketch a replacement for the grid of icons at <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu#Title>.
<mpt> That way you could see all the possibilities at once, and the possible transitions involved.
<snwh> okay
<snwh> any thoughts on the alternate chat icons?
<mpt> They improve on the current ones in that they're the same visual weight. The drawback is that they're harder to distinguish, especially for people with color impairments.
<snwh> thats why there are symbols on the icons
<mpt> yes
<snwh> i mean i put symbols on them.
<snwh> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/messaging-menu-ambiance.png
<snwh> i even colour tweaked the screenshots to see if an impairment would make the symbols indistinguishable
<snwh> mpt is the width of the indicator fixed?
<mpt> snwh, no, different menus have different widths (e.g. the battery icons are wider), but it's probably best if all the title icons for the same menu are the same width.
<mpt> That might involve adding/removing a little spacing
<snwh> can it fluxuate?
<mpt> It can, but as I said, it's probably best if it doesn't
<mpt> otherwise things would wobble
<mpt> (specially, menus to the left of that one)
<snwh> unless it was always furthest left
<snwh> but yea i agree
<snwh> i was trialing a two icon thing. and it just shrunk to fit in the indicator
<snwh> an icon with chat status icon + new mail icon @16x34px and just the chat icon at 16x16
<snwh> unless the mail icon was always present. and the indicator had two icons, is that possible?
<snwh> changing icons*
<snwh> mpt, may i suggest this: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/screenshot1.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/screenshot2.png
<mpt> snwh, promising
<mpt> I like that it dramatically reduces the amount of blue
<mpt> (our blue is pretty fluorescent)
<snwh> it really is
<snwh> i had the mail icon there first, but thought to make it simpler
<mpt> On the other hand, it still has the wobble, though maybe that's a feature rather than a bug
<mpt> a slight animation to draw your attention
<snwh> exactly
<snwh> changes from 22px wide to 23
<snwh> if i remove a px from the right edge it wouldnt wobble
<snwh> but like you said: it adds slight animation
<snwh> mpt, critique? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/screenshot-ambiance.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/screenshot-radiance.png
<snwh> ..or sabdfl? :)
<sabdfl> snwh, don't like it not being an envelope
<sabdfl> we didn't have online state
<sabdfl> so just because we CAN add it for non-colour blind people
<sabdfl> doesn't mean we have to make the iconography cryptic
<sabdfl> please let's keep the basic envelope
<sabdfl> at most, open the envelope when it's in the "action" state
<sabdfl> and use the colour
<sabdfl> but
<sabdfl> "normal" (i.e. connected) should be plain mono white-ish
<sabdfl> i.e. do not show a colour when in the normal active state
<sabdfl> and just darken it slightly when NOT connected
<sabdfl> don't be garish
<sabdfl> i want my indicators plain when all is normal
<sabdfl> no colour by default
<sabdfl> ok?
<snwh> sabdfl, no problem just an idea.
<snwh> sabdfl, what is the plan for the icons?
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-28
<hellocatfood> Does anything ever happen in this channel?
<hellocatfood> I guess not
#ubuntu-design 2012-09-30
<dashua> Ambiance/Radiance buttons very close to all of the design mock ups --> http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/7lbcsp2p/GTKWidgetFactory_003.png
<dashua> Should I bother submitting a patch this late in the cycle?
#ubuntu-design 2013-09-24
<snwh> *tumbleweeds*
#ubuntu-design 2013-09-25
 * mpt throws a tumbleweed at snwh 
<mpt> Can anyone sell me a bucketful of ideas? I've run out.
<snwh> mpt, ideas for?
<mpt> snwh, for all intents and purposes. Just a kilogram would do.
<snwh> a toaster that has bluetooth/wifi so it'll notify your cell when your toast is done
<mpt> Lovely.
<mpt> snwh, could also be implemented as a smoke detector in your phone.
<xnox> mpt I have quad-color ubuntu branded pens. Do you have one already? cause I got some for you =)
<mpt> xnox, Ubuntu-branded?? Awesome. I haven't seen those.
<xnox> mpt: I shall be in the office sometime soon then =)
#ubuntu-design 2013-09-26
<mpt> katie, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AccountPrivileges#Phone
<katie> mpt, thanks
<tkamppeter> mpt, mhall119, hi
<mhall119> hi tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> mhall119, did you get my e-mail about print dialog design?
<mhall119> tkamppeter: no, would I?  It's not really my area
<mhall119> oh wait, from the 19th?
<tkamppeter> mhall119, yes.
<mhall119> yeah, I got that one
<tkamppeter> mhall119, who is in charge of UI design for Ubuntu Touch. Anyone of the people I have sent the mail to? Anyone in this channel?
<mpt> tkamppeter, yes I did
<mpt> tkamppeter, oreneeshy is
<tkamppeter> oreneeshy, hi
<mhall119> yeah, oren
<mhall119> tkamppeter: I did however notice that it required qt4, will it not work with qt5?
<tkamppeter> mhall119, the original author has written it with Qt4, and I have simply gotten it this way.
<tkamppeter> mhall119, the original author is willing to continue work on it (he has retired and therefore has more time now), perhaps we can ask him to port it to Qt5.
<tkamppeter> oreneeshy, I have sent you an e-mail about a mobile print client design done at OpenPrinting.
<tkamppeter> mhall119, WDYT about asking the original author to port his work to Qt5/Touch SDK?
<mhall119> tkamppeter: if we're going to use it in Touch they (phablet team) will probably like it to use qt5 like everything else
<mhall119> if it had a good separation between front and backend, we could replace the front-end widgets with Ubuntu SDK components
<mhall119> while I'm active in here, who's the design lead for the SDK components?
<tkamppeter> So the port Qt4 -> Qt5 would be already a good step forward, also taking into account that frontend and backend get well separated.
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> but again, only if we plan on using it, no point in asking him to do work that won't get used
<tkamppeter> mhall119, so on which channel do I find the Phablet team?
<mhall119> tkamppeter: #ubuntu-touch is the public channel
