#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-22
<HazRPG> anyone seen this google+ song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGugj1ym594
<AyeGiffgaff> Morning folks
<ali1234> HazRPG: people who cannot sing like freddie mercury should not cover/parody queen songs
<daftykins> i prefer: Queen should not be parodied/covered/etc
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZkouut-9RQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=65s
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> guessing you don't like any of bob rivers's queen parodies then either?
<ali1234> never heard of him
<HazRPG> american dude
<MartijnVdS> \o
<LewisCawte> Why were you guys up so early? :P
<MartijnVdS> LewisCawte: HazRPG is always up all night, and I'm in another country (where it's 7:30 now ;)
<LewisCawte> Another country very close... Netherlands/France/Belgium are all ones that spring to mind
<HazRPG> LewisCawte: heh, I sleep very little lol
<MartijnVdS> LewisCawte: Netherlands is correct
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I'm still not convinced you're not a bot :P
 * MartijnVdS is off to catch a train
<MartijnVdS> \o
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hehe :P
<daubers> Morning
<DJones> Morning daubers
<daubers> Why is evolution such a big pile of rubbish?
<daubers> Change in the calender server requires me to change a calender account, right click on it to fix and it pops up a dialog telling me it can't connect and takes the focus away from the right click
<daubers> I know it's broken NOW LET ME FIX IT
<DJones> I've not used evolution for quite a while, I started using thunderbird to give me cross platform consistency
<smittix> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello all :)
<smittix> Morning MooDoo, How goes it?
<MooDoo> smittix: surprisingly quiet....:S
<smittix> heh
 * daubers considers going home and hiding in bed until the world ends
<gord> blanket forts and cockroaches are the only thing that will survive a nuclear fallout after all
<DJones> Don't forget Vegemite, that survives anything
<MooDoo> daubers: BIG HUG and a nice Cuppa Tea n Toast....there there ;)
<brobostigon> good morning.
<MooDoo> moring brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> brobostigon: are you well
<daubers> oh well, at least the oggcamp videos are slowly making their way onto the interwebs
<MooDoo> ooo are they?
<MooDoo> linkies?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: not perticulerly, no. and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: i'm awake and at work, does that count?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: yes, it does.
<daubers> MooDoo: At 500k, each 700MB file might take a couple of hours :) When ones up and working I'll hand out the link
<MooDoo> daubers: ah! :)
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
 * bigcalm thwaps VirginMedia
<DJones> Another bad day with the conenction bigcalm ?
<MontyMoose> Hello people - having a strange problem with apt-get ... whatever I try and install it always tells me libnet-ssleay-perl / libauthen-pam-perl are required. I try to install these and it fails. I'm running Natty and have allowed all repositires - any ideas thanks :-)
<MontyMoose> I've done the obvious things: apt-get update etc...
<bigcalm> DJones: I hope not. But my VM modem/router had given my dev server the wrong IP address. The MAC/IP setting had gone for the device and to add it back meant the modem/router rebooted itself
<bigcalm> *sigh*
<DJones> MontyMoose: What are you trying to install?
<MontyMoose> I started off trying to install webmin - then just to see whether it was a webmin only thing I tried a few simple things... the text-based browser links for example... same problem
<MontyMoose> (it's a fresh install)
<DJones> It could be a problem with trying to install webmin, thats no longer supported in ubuntu and apparantely can cause problems
<DJones> !webmin
<lubotu3> webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system.
<DJones> Looking at the "likely to cause unexpected issues with your system"
<MontyMoose> ok fair enough - I'm not that interested in webmin - just speeds up editing my conf files thats all.
<MontyMoose> But I get the same problem trying to install links! - surely that's still supported!?
<MooDoo> !links
<lubotu3> DON'T POST LINKS! Oneiric isn't out until it's announced, and indicating anything otherwise causes the server to get more load, thus making the release LATER. Is that what you want?
<DJones> Are you able to sudo apt-get install libnet-ssleay-perl as a package on its own?
<MooDoo> oops
<BigRedS> if Webmin's still broken from trying to install the perl modules it'll winge on every successive install
<MontyMoose> nope - same error
<MontyMoose> oh I see - so it is installing these things - I'm just getting a stupid webmin message
<DJones> I'm not sure how to fix that problem, but hopefully somebody else can help fixing that
<BigRedS> it might be
<BigRedS> it might instead be crapping out because webmin's broken
<BigRedS> I'd try uninstalling webmin if it's suggested that it causes problems
<MontyMoose> bloody webmin - so what's the best way to totally remove webmin
<BigRedS> apt-get remove webmin
<MontyMoose> bear in mind - it never installed succesfully
<BigRedS> will remove it
<BigRedS> apt-get remove --purge webmin
<BigRedS> will remove it and all its config
<DJones> Did you install it manually? I'm assuming its not going to be part of the default apt database?
<MontyMoose> ok done that - it seems to suggest that webmin has been removed - let me try the perl install again
<MontyMoose> ...and now it works -
<MontyMoose> thanks guys - I won't be installing webmin again
<DJones> !ebox
<lubotu3> zentyal is a web-based GUI interface for administering a server. It is designed to work with Ubuntu/Debian style configuration management. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Zentyal (Project formally known as eBox - including in Lucid/10.04).
<DJones> That seems to be the replacement for webmin
<DJones> with the change of name to zentyal
<JamesTait> Good morning!
<DJones> Although even that doesn't show up in the apt database
<DJones> Ah, still shows under ebox
<bigcalm> !links2
<lubotu3> Browsers in Ubuntu's repositories: Firefox (XUL, Gecko), Chromium (Webkit), Konqueror (Qt, KHTML), Epiphany (GTK+, Webkit), Arora (Qt, Webkit), Midori (GTK+, Webkit), w3m (terminal-based), links2 (terminal-based or graphical, see !manpage), edbrowse (terminal-based)
<BigRedS> MontyMoose: it should work, really, since it is in the repos. Bit crap to have it break on install and then say "oh, but it's not reccomended anyway"
<MontyMoose> indeed
<DJones> bigcalm: Did you mean webmin then? I couldn't see it in the ubuntu repo's
<MontyMoose> I might see if I can manage on the config files on their own - I've always used webmin on my servers in the past. But it's just another port I have to have open on the firewall. Probably better to manage it through the shell
<MontyMoose> ok - as you're all here, and I'm setting up my new server - what FTP server do you recommend on Natty? I've always used proftpd - any reason not to continue doing this?
<bigcalm> DJones: eh?
<DJones> bigcalm: The comment about it being in the repo's but then saying it breaks on on install and its not recommended anyway
 * bigcalm points DJones at BigRedS :)
<DJones> Whoops, not enough coffee yet
<bigcalm> A tab failure hadn't happened for a while, I was starting to miss it ;)
<BigRedS> Argh. I meant to hunt bigcalm down at oggcamp to prove that we are two separate people
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I just remembered that as well
<BigRedS> In fact, are you in the ubuntu-uk photo thingy out the front?
<bigcalm> BigRedS: yes, just at the last moment!
<BigRedS> ah, awesome. there's proof there, then
<bigcalm> The talk I was attending over ran
<bigcalm> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattdaubney/6041112753
<Myrtti> so I trust both of you have tagged yourselves in that picture?
<bigcalm> It's a little "Where's Wally"
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I did :)
<BigRedS> I can tag me?
<Myrtti> BigRedS: sure
<bigcalm> Myrtti: it looks as though you are wearing a cape :D
<BigRedS> aha!
<Myrtti> I know, my scarf does that at times
<BigRedS> man flickr's changed a bit since I last paid it any attention
<Myrtti> ...
<Myrtti> WHEN have you last paid attention to it then?
<bigcalm> BigRedS: aha, there you are. Wish I had cool hair like yours
<BigRedS> er,
<BigRedS> apr 8 2010 I think
<Myrtti> well, it has changed "a bit" but not much
<BigRedS> Myrtti: I don't remember the people tagging, and the zoom view looks new.
<BigRedS> but I've never looked for people tagging before
<Myrtti> yeah, the zoom defaults to the light box now
<bigcalm> People tagging is slightly new, though tagging isn't
<daubers> Why are desktop touchscreen still so expensive?
<bigcalm> Because not everybody has them yet
<bigcalm> Once we do, they will become cheaper
<gord> not sure, would of thought that laptops with touchscreens would of been big this year
 * daubers suspects the "tablet" market appearing has made things worse
<gord> though, using a touchscreen with windows sucks, i'm sure that plays out quite a bit
<Daviey> daubers: nah, IMO it makes the technology more of a commodity and gets users used to interacting with computers with touch, making it more of a wanted feature.
<daubers> Daviey: However if I'm a large tablet manufacturer with a fruit as my logo, I would buy up as much touchscreen stock as possible in order to make sure the price points stay where I want them
<gord> </tinfoilhat>
<daubers> :p
<daubers> Doesn't help that HP just ordered loads and then more or less ditched them all
<Daviey> daubers: normally, the more sold, the more that get created. :).  multi-touch is an example of this :)
<Ng> gord: any laptop with a touchscreen would suck
<daubers> Daviey: There's only so much silicon being manufactued at any one time
<gord> Ng, what makes you say that?
<MontyMoose> I remember a time when a ubuntu installation worked as a webserver right out of the box... not any more sadly. Every time I get a new server I have to do more fannying around before it actually works *grumble grumble*
<Ng> gord: if you're not holding the screen in your hand, it's probably in a position that's pretty unnatural to touch
<Ng> try holding your arms up in front of your screen and pretend you're using it like a touchpad, for about 10-15 minutes
<gord> Ng, right i don't think that you would use it like that
<Daviey> Ng: have you actually tried that as an experiment?
<gord> Ng, you would be sitting there watching youtube or whatever, you hit a pause button because you are going to make some coffee, come back and unpause. instead of faffing about with the touchpad
<Daviey> Ng: If so, did you do it in public? That would have been a kodak moment.
<BigRedS> MontyMoose: is that because you're doing more exciting things with it?
<gord> it would be for casual interaction, not as the main input device
<MontyMoose> I suppose... although with my new Natty box the "exciting thing" thing I'm trying to do is to turn MySql on! - fairly standard one would have thought.
<daubers> MontyMoose: turn it on? If you've installed mysql the service should be running
<BigRedS> surely that's just apt-get install mysql-server?
<Ng> gord: so just for occasional casual interaction you're going to redesign the entire interface paradigm so everything is at least the size of a fingertip? :/
<MontyMoose> yup - done that and it says it's installed and up to date...
<Daviey> I can see tablets totally replacing laptops eventually.  I regulary see people on the train using ipads with hardware keyboards.
<Daviey> The atrix i thought was a good proo of concept.
<Ng> I can almost touch type on my ipad now :)
<MontyMoose> however when I try and connect to it (to add users and stuff) it just says: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket
<daubers> MontyMoose: What are you trying to connect to it with
<MontyMoose> at this point I'm just trying to connect through the shell with 'mysql' command
<daubers> MontyMoose: mysql -uroot -p ?
<gord> Ng, you can be smarter about things than that, the user is not likely to want to touch things in MS Word with their finger, but is likely to want to control their media player with their finger for example
<MontyMoose> yup - that's what i'm doing...
<MontyMoose> ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)
<Ng> gord: that's not smart, that's lazy ;)
<daubers> MontyMoose: sudo service mysql restart
<MontyMoose> I tried /init.d/mysql start - and that doesn't seem to work either! have things moved on since the days of init.d?
<BigRedS> yeah, there's a new way of doing it
<MontyMoose> daubers: restart: Unknown instance
<brobostigon>  /etc/init.d/*
<daubers> MontyMoose: itym /etc/init.d/
<bigcalm> MontyMoose: is mysql running?
<BigRedS> which I appear unable to remember until /etc/init.d/* stops working
<daubers> MontyMoose: sudo service mysql start
<bigcalm> ps aux | grep mysql
<MontyMoose> well... it's thinking...........
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<daubers> MontyMoose: Is this the same box that had webmin on it?
<bigcalm> MontyMoose: I do hope you don't have the upstart issue I had: http://www.myrant.net/2010/05/21/upstart-failing-to-manage-mysqld-on-ubuntu-10-04/
<Ng> gord: also "their media player" is not likely to be their route to your example of youtube, a browser is (unless you're going to include a touchy friendly youtube app like certain popular tablets do), and you can't make the youtube flash thing suddenly be touch friendly
<MontyMoose> well it sort of half had webmin on it - but it never installed properly so I apt-get removed it
<gord> Ng, it wasn't a specific example, it was hypothetical - if touchscreen laptops took off, i'm sure youtube would provide support
<MontyMoose> sudo service mysql start = hang until ctrl+C
<Ng> gord: my personal opinion is that ipad works so well because it turned the chicken&egg problem of making laptops touchable by just throwing out all the paradigms that are confusing in a touchy laptop world and defining a new experience
<Ng> gord: I think touchy laptops would be a mostly hacky, ugly, confusing, painful experience :)
<MontyMoose> bizarre never had any problems getting mysql going before
<Ng> and expensive
<bigcalm> MontyMoose: sounds like you have the upstart issue I had, read the blog post I pasted
<Ng> adding a touchscreen to a 13"+ LCD is not going to be easy or cheap atm
<MontyMoose> ok - thanks
<bigcalm> MontyMoose: what version of Ubuntu are you running?
<bigcalm> BTW, read the comments as well. That's where the real fix is
<MontyMoose> 11.04
<bigcalm> Most strange then
<MontyMoose> (fresh install this morninig)
<bigcalm> It would be horrible if this issue has returned then
<MontyMoose> Right I've run the code as suggested in the comments - and I'm now rebooting - so we'll see
<gord> Ng, i don't think it would be cheep either :) but i also think you can build a nice interface around it too - frankly gnome has had giant buttons since 2.0 anyway ;)
<davmor2> morning all
<MontyMoose> ok - so now it doesn't hang and says mysql start/running
<bigcalm> Morning mrevell
<MontyMoose> something still isn't right - I started it and it seemed to suggest it was running - but still wouldn't let me in. Then I stopped it and it stopped properly. Then tried starting it again and it hung again.... weird
<mrevell> howdy bigcalm
<czajkowski> peeka boo
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski a big hug
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks davmor2 must be after something
<czajkowski> ello
<MontyMoose> any other suggestions - I've followed the fix in your post so the service should now have root access to  /usr/sbin/mysqld - but it still doesn't work! help!
<BigRedS> MontyMoose: is it the same error message? About not being able to connect?
<MontyMoose> yup
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: No just freakin czajkowski out it's fun to throw in from time to time :D
<BigRedS> does mysql show up in ps?   ps aux | grep mysql
<MontyMoose>  1807  0.0  0.1   7932  1056 pts/0    S+   11:21   0:00 grep --color=auto mysql
<MontyMoose> does that make any sense at all?
<BigRedS> cool, so it's not running
<BigRedS> you've just returned the grep for it. You'd expect another line with the mysql process in it if it was running
<MontyMoose> oh I see
<MontyMoose> so if I try to start the service again following the fix and reboot - lets see what happens....
<BigRedS> yeah
<MontyMoose> start: Job is already running: mysql
<MontyMoose> odd - so grep suggests it isn't running - but if I try and start it - it says it already is!
<BigRedS> I'd be very tempted to find and delete the lockfile/pidfile and try again, though this is a tad underhand
<MooDoo> hello all
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning me owld mukka
<MontyMoose> I'm quite happy being underhand - how do I go about doing that?
<BigRedS> MontyMoose: does    cat /var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid    return anything?
<MooDoo> hi davmor2 :S
<MontyMoose> no such file or directory
<BigRedS> hm
<BigRedS> I was rather hoping that was how upstart or whatever it is deduced the run state of mysql
<davmor2> MooDoo: that monday morning feeling? Give czajkowski a hug it will soon go away as she beats you unconscious :D
<BigRedS> (it should be a file that, when MySQL starts, is created containing the PID of the MySQL process. On stopping the MySQL daemon it's deleted. any attempt to start it would check for the existence of that file and, if it exists, assume it's already started and so abort)
<MontyMoose> got ya - if this is going to be a big issue I'd be tempted to downgrade. This server is all about MySQL the whole purpose of it is to hold millions and millions of rows of mysql data!!
<czajkowski> davmor2: as of tomorrow I won't be here :d
<BigRedS> MontyMoose: once you've got over whatever's causing it to not start now it should be fine, I'm just not sure what that hiccup is
<BigRedS> And I should be doing the work I'm paid to do :/
<MontyMoose> ok thanks. Well I'll go trawling Google then... one more day like this and I'm off to buy a big shiny red hat - Ubuntu is pissing me off!
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm in a mood so i can't even be bothered to torment czajkowski
<BigRedS> red hat? ew.
<BigRedS> Go Debian if anywhere :)
<MontyMoose> Just need something which will run a LAMP quickly and easily with no headaches
<davmor2> czajkowski: You got a job?
<MooDoo> davmor2: keep up man, she's going back to ireland
<BigRedS> MontyMoose: Usually all Linuxes will do that. We routinely get Debian and Ubuntu boxes up doing that with no issues. Much more debian than ubuntu at the minute, but they're pretty similar at that sort of thing
<czajkowski> davmor2: nope I head to ireland
<MontyMoose> ok thanks man - I'll keep pressing on
<BigRedS> you might have hit a release-specific bug, where downgrading to the previous Ubuntu will render yourself unaffected, or switching to a debian (or anywhere else, but RedHat's downright insane ;) )
<daubers> MontyMoose: Did you not just select the lamp stuff in the installer?
<MontyMoose> yup
<MontyMoose> it's all installed - just mysql won't start
<davmor2> czajkowski: nuts :(
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> :)
 * daubers has been considering moving to postgres recently
<BigRedS> yeah, I've stuck a couple of things on postgres
<BigRedS> it's definitely less easy than MySQL and I'm not convinced that's entirely down to familiarity
<daubers> I've started moving a lot of my arduino stuff over to mqtt, so I've considered writing a postgres thing to capture the mqtt stuffs and store it in a db. I have one for mysql, shouldn't be hard to convert
 * daubers is pondering building a geiger counter for his office
<BigRedS> where do you work?
<daubers> BigRedS: Just over the road from AWE
<BigRedS> ahhh. I'd invoke the principle of not asking questions to which you'd rather not know the answer there
<daubers> BigRedS: heh, I'm just intrigued :)
<BigRedS> Plug it into /dev/random :)
<daubers> BigRedS: One in my house, one in the office, one in my parents house, one in my mates house down the road. See if any patterns appear
<DJones> AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer Is this of interest http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/22/cabinet_office_ict_asset_services_procurement/
<AlanBell> I nearly got sucked in to that
<AlanBell> open source suppliers dodged a bullet there IMHO
<DJones> AlanBell: Expensive or just time consuming & time wasting
<AlanBell> not much money in it, and they wanted *lots* of bespoke interfaces to random asset tracking systems
<AlanBell> so masses of work to do, with no scope, no budget and they wanted a fixed price
<TheOpenSourcerer> I read that story too. Sounded like a good price to me.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Â£1ook for 3 years
<Daviey> AlanBell: Fixed price is BS.. as in it will not happen.  Fixed price for the spec.. then the contract will double in cost for all the unconsidered features.
<MartijnVdS> sounds like government contracts
<MartijnVdS> (it's the same here in .nl)
<AlanBell> yeah, I don't know the full details, I was just asked if I wanted to get involved, but as it was something that IBM had already failed at and other larger suppliers were competing for and the whole thing sounded toxic I backed off
<AlanBell> plus I couldn't see the open source element of the project
<MontyMoose> Ok - I'm giving up on this mysql problem. Which version would people recommend I downgrade to with Ubuntu? I need a version where apache/php/mysql work properly?
<Daviey> MontyMoose: They should all work.
<Daviey> MontyMoose: People tend to prefer the LTS releases, so Lucid.
<MontyMoose> Lucid ok - I'll hunt for an iso
<AlanBell> MontyMoose: install phpmyadmin and see if that works, it will pull in everything you need and you can test it all
<AlanBell> then remove it
<BigRedS> it'll be on ubuntu.com - it's the current LTS release
<MontyMoose> nice idea
<MontyMoose> right oh - good plan
<MontyMoose> shoudld have done that to start with really
<MontyMoose> download underway - thanks for all your help
<Venko> Hey guys
<DJones> Afternoon Venko, seems a long time since I've seen you in the channel
<dogmatic69> o/
<Venko> Yeah, to be honest I'm using Windows on this computer :-o
<Venko> It's a gaming computer you see, you know for evil time wasting games
<DJones> If it makes you feel any better, I'm using Windows as well, its an evil freedom wasting work machine
<Venko> Oggcamp was so awesome though. It's inspired me to properly use FOSS again :)
<Venko> Hey, I don't suppose you know of any FOSS webmail clients? I've got some ideas for a client I want to make but I don't want to build a backend if I can borrow one from somewhere
<andylockran> howdy
<MartijnVdS> roundcube
<MartijnVdS> Venko: ^
<Venko> I suppose the downside is if it's GPL licensed it'll prevent me from using affero GPL for my project but it'd be a fair trade-off to avoid the extra work
<BigRedS> roundcube is awesome
<andylockran> guys, I'm hoping to run a wireless test to check the wireless setup over a period of a few days - is there any wireless monitoring software any of you would recommend?
<BigRedS> It's teh first webmail client I've found that's basically a web-based proper mail client
<andylockran> BigRedS: RoundCube FTW
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: write a small script that greps in the output of "iwlist", plug into your favourite monitoring tool (nagios?)?
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: ta
<dwatkins> andylockran: what kinds of tests do you want to do?
<dwatkins> Just curious, wondering if it's response time, signal strength etc.
<andylockran> dwatkins: many
<daubers> urgh, uploads take too long
<daubers> at least I seem to have got the format right for blip
<MooDoo> bloomin mondays
<bigcalm> Moomin Mondays \o/
<popey> \o/ Monday!
<MooDoo> pah!
<daubers> MooDoo+1
 * daubers notes the oggcamp video he uploaded as a test has had 5 viewers and he hasn't published the URI yet
<shauno> spies everywhere
<daubers> also, did I mention, upload speeds suck
<BigRedS> Downside of shared spotify playlist for music in the noc: Aqua - Barbie Girl has just come on
<MooDoo> BigRedS: GET OUT!!!! points....----- >
<davmor2> BigRedS: what and you forgot what a great tune it was and are now playing it repeatedly right?
<BigRedS> well, I've a feeling it was me who added it to the playlist
<davmor2> BigRedS: It could be worse it could be Sam Fox Touch Me,  if that helps
<davmor2> BigRedS: in that case I redirect you to MooDoo's earlier statement
<BigRedS> haha, I've had a habit of putting, er, questionable music on just as I go to leave
<davmor2> BigRedS: Too redeem yourself now go and listen to Josh Wink Highest State of Consciousness :D
<BigRedS> but today someone's put the whole playlist on shuffle, so it's all over the place
<BigRedS> ooh, there's a "Tweakin' acid funk mix" of that
<BigRedS> sounds interesting
<BigRedS> Hm. I'm not convinced this is better than Aqua
<davmor2> BigRedS: When your ears start to bleed then you can listen to The Prodigy Firestarter :D
<BigRedS> yeah, that sounds rather more appropriate :)
<daubers> BigRedS: just put some Mahler on and be done with it
<BigRedS> daubers: there's a lot of very long song names there
<BigRedS> with words like 'symphony' and 'C sharp'
<BigRedS> ew. Mono
<BigRedS> Oh. The shared playlist is apparently now entirely Mahler
<daubers> 734786924 bytes sent in 9314.28 secs (77.0 kB/s) :(
<daubers> BigRedS: My missus glared at me yesterday when I said that any song that relies on a wall of sound is essentially rubbish because they couldn't be bothered to do anything interesting with rythem, temp, or anything other other than MAKE LOUD NOISES
<daubers> like 5 year olds with their parents saucepans
<daubers> s/temp/temp
<daubers> s/temp/temp
<daubers> o
<daubers> Stupid muscle memory
<BigRedS> haha
<bigcalm> :D
<BigRedS> I had an 8-hour journey to Geneva with a soundtrack composed entirely of drum and bass last week
<daubers> think she was playing nickelback at the time
<BigRedS> that was, er, not very fun
<bigcalm> Goa Trance appears to be my thing for the month
<krimzon2> modern drum and bass sucks cause they all have the exact same drums
<krimzon2> and it's more like drum, bass and a ton of other house crap to get rid of that nasty dynamic range
<gord> popey, found an actual arm server :) http://www.ztsystems.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1483
 * popey falls over
<bigcalm> Goodness
<DJones> "popey falls over" .... Powered by bigcalm's VM connection :)
<bigcalm> LOL
<bigcalm> I think that popey's own VM connection can do that at times as well :P
<bigcalm> popey: have you been tempted by the TiVo offer yet?
<DJones> Yeah, but popey's VM connection is powering the whole of the interweb's as well
<popey> bigcalm: saw an advert at the weekend and did ponder
<daubers> You people and your "tv".
<TheOpenSourcerer> w00t! England just got 2 quick wickets. India 262-5
<bigcalm> popey: I _think_ that we can have it, but CS aren't very clued in, in our experience
<bigcalm> 99 quid for the box, 3 quid per month for the service
<bigcalm> The tivo box has its own 10mb modem in it so your tv becomes an 'internet tv'. According to an engineer, it doesn't impact upon ones 30mb connection...
<popey> so could plug my openwrt into the tivo to share wifi to the house
<bigcalm> No idea if it shares the internet connection outside of the box
<bigcalm> Share the 10mb to everybody else and keep the 30mb for yourself? ;)
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> You could just limit bandwidth to selected MACs
 * daubers makes coffee
<Daviey> bigcalm: yeah, cause spoofing mac is too hard :)
<bigcalm> Daviey: if his kids and wife can spoof macs, good on 'em ;)
<bigcalm> Actually, the cat tweets, so it might be in with a chance
<popey> Well..
<popey> I came home once from work and clare said she'd found one of Sophies little jotter pads with "mum wii " and our pin number written in it
<christel> haha
<popey> she watched mummy put it in once, and remembered it
<popey> i said to sophie "how come you've got the pin number of the wii written down?" she burst into tears
<popey> she thought I was cross, which I wasnt, I was impressed
<mgdm> well played, that girl
<christel> aww bless
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Is a thug - upsetting little children like that.
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
 * TheOpenSourcerer notes his son (10) now uses upper/lower/numeric and non-alphas for his passwords! 
 * MooDoo 's son is loving tuxpaint, hasn't quite figured out how to use the mouse yet
<Daviey> nah, turn on the tears early and often.. avoids getting itno trouble.
<Daviey> into*
<daubers> still works for Daviey apparently
 * daubers spots some potential 9.7" touchscreens hitting the market at < Â£100
<bigcalm> I think I should block all mention of "cheap" gadgets. It's unhealthy for my wallet
<davmor2> gord: I just got my confirmation to book for UDS P :D
<gord> davmor2, cool :) i'll be there for only a few days though
 * MooDoo will go to a UDS one day...
<davmor2> gord: I'm there before UDS till after judging by the flight tickets
<gord> davmor2, when is before?
<davmor2> gord: I'll be getting in on the Wednesday before cause Thurs-Sat there will be some QA training on
<gord> davmor2, ah neat, i'm there the entire week before : )
<BigRedS> Firefox/Thunderbird should really ship with a kill-everything-mozilla-and-give-me-back-my-memory tool...
<mgdm> BigRedS: it's in coreutils, surely
<mgdm> 'killall' :)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: try on aix :)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/aix/v7r1/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.aix.cmds/doc/aixcmds3/killall.htm
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: killall as root on aix = instakill :)
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I've heard that one
<BigRedS> but, yeah, just a short form of killall firefox-bin && killall thunderbird-bin
<davmor2> BigRedS: I thought it was called Chromium!
<BigRedS> pft. I did toy with opera again last night after FF irritated me again
<BigRedS> it's not half bad
<gord> i hear they are taking some big steps to get rid of the memory usage in the next firefox
<gord> which is very welcome :)
<BigRedS> Haha, I'm sure they did that for the 3.0 release, too
<BigRedS> but, yeah, I really like firefox, it's just that sometimes it stops me working for ten minutes while I get to another tty to kill it...
 * hamitron has changed to IE 9 :(
<BigRedS> Lucky HazRPG
<BigRedS> er
<BigRedS> tabfail
<hamitron> :D
<BigRedS> but, yeah, lucky you
<bigcalm> BigRedS: we're not allowed to tab fail :P
<BigRedS> no, I did feel particularly bad after all the stick we've given everyone else :)
<hamitron> improper highlighting
<Azelphur> woo, tecknet say my headset hack should work
<Azelphur> they did say "However please make sure the power input requirement of your headset meets the output range from Iep380."
<Azelphur> isn't USB just one stable power requirement?
<hamitron> Azelphur: different devices draw different currents
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> any way to tell / negative side effects if I'm wrong?
<hamitron> if you draw too much current (and power) from a power source, it is not healthy for the power source
<hamitron> can lead to damage to the power source, a drop in voltage, or it cutting out
<hamitron> I'm not sure what the max current draw in USB specs is, or that of your device
<hamitron> s/device/power source
<shauno> 500mA is meant to be standard, 1A isn't unusual anymore tho.  how it manifests itself differs from device to device
<shauno> eg, my phone will just take longer to charge on 500mA.  an ipad won't charge while it's 'awake' on 500
<dogmatic69> usb max is 500mA
<Azelphur> the charger has a 1A and 500mA socket
<Azelphur> and the headset is designed to charge off a cable plugged direct into the PC
<dogmatic69> shauno: that is why there is http://www.amazon.co.uk/LINDY-USB-Cable-Dual-Power/dp/B000FKP7XA
<hamitron> Azelphur: you looked at the specs in your manual?
<Azelphur> for the headset? nope
<hamitron> worth looking
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> anything to ctrl+f for? :P
<hamitron> power
<hamitron> or mA
<hamitron> or current
<Azelphur> hamitron: doesn't seem to be anything in there, http://www.logitech.com/assets/32824/g930-620-002766003403gsamr.pdf :(
<hamitron> gimme 10 mins to download it
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> lol
<popey> MOO!
<davmor2> popey: how do
<daubers> I see popey has beef this afternoon
<hamitron> Azelphur: does it power a mobile phone?
<hamitron> my guess is wireless headsets will use less power
<Azelphur> hamitron: yea
<Azelphur> so I probably wanna plug it into the 1A port
<hamitron> dunno :)
<JonTheNiceGuy> Does anyone know whether there's still a mirror around of the Jaunty packages for Arm? A friend has a box he's not able to upgrade, but needs to add a package to.
<shauno> JonTheNiceGuy: you might luck out on http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ports/releases/jaunty/release/  somewhere.
<shauno> (or in /ubuntu/pool/ if you know exactly what version you're fishing for)
<JonTheNiceGuy> He's looking for mc
<andylockran> guys, is it possible to have multiple authorized_keys files
<JonTheNiceGuy> andylockran: Have all the lines in one file
<JonTheNiceGuy> Thanks for that Shauno. Worked for me - now all I need to do is to teach him how to use it :)
<davmor2> directhex: so you have a new work phone and you've broken it already
<directhex> davmor2, ?
<andylockran> hmm, less than helpful
<daubers> andylockran: What are you trying to achieve?
<davmor2> directhex: Rooted a pre3 by the look of the twitpic :)
<directhex> davmor2, rooting a pre3 just involves typing a NES cheat code. that's xorg running xterm
<davmor2> directhex: as I say and broke it already ;)
<andylockran> daubers: I want to make 1 key valid on all servers, and a subset of keys valid on different servers.  i.e authorized_keys1 valid all the time, and authorized_keys2 only present on a few servers
<daubers> andylockran:  There is an AuthorizedKeysFile option in the ssh config
<daubers> andylockran: Otherwise, it doesn't look like it, unless you seperate them out by user
<andylockran> yeah, no worries
<andylockran> tbh, from a security perspective I shouldn't be doing what I was planning, so probably for the best that it's not possible :D
<daubers> heh
<andylockran> daubers: putting an authorized_key file in a vcs for dev machines
<daubers> ahhhh
<daubers> andylockran: Can't just create a user/key per machine and tweak the groups of those users?
<andylockran> daubers: yeah, will end up doing that
<DJones> This is tempting http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/41625/hp-touchpad-uk-price-drop
<BigRedS> Mmm, for that sort of money I could justify an experiment in tablets
<BigRedS> with the worst-case scenario being something to fart around with applying the myriad hacks that the Internet is likely to come up with for it
<DJones> Making it more tempting is https://twitter.com/#!/trsohmers/status/104788233908531200
<BigRedS> oooh
<DJones> I wonder whether it has java in its browser and whether it'd play minecraft
<daubers> Since marxjohnson put the uri on twitter..... http://oggcamp.blip.tv all videos are now very slowly uploading. Please be patient! They will get there eventually
<bigcalm> And since you just pasted it in channel, it'll go even slower :P
<daubers> bigcalm: have to slow down some to beat the last upload (734167918 bytes sent in 8506.99 secs (84.3 kB/s))
<bigcalm> Ouch
<daubers> They'll get there in the end....
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Desktop Summit 2011 Group Photo - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4472
<bigcalm> Sod sod sod
<bigcalm> Must not buy touchpad
<MooDoo> wassup bigcalm
<MooDoo> ?
<MooDoo> lol
<Cuediin> #quit
<daubers> bigcalm: An wasy way to stop you buying a touchpad, pay for some tyres for my car and my motorbikes MOT in the next week please
<MooDoo> daubers: and brakes for my bike :)
<bigcalm> daubers: I recently had my read discs replaced the the aircon fixed. Had enough of motor repairs for a while ta :P
<daubers> :(
<daubers> I get a bit antsy when I _have_ to change the tyres and to do the front two is going to cost Â£1x0
<daubers> Having said that, someone at work is paying nearly Â£400 a tyre for his silly sports car, and they're verging on not being road legal after just 900 miles
<gord> so you *could* buy a touchpad, or you could buy 100 kinder egg surprises.
<gord> i think we know what is the better option
<daubers> gord: kinder egg surprises are rubbish. The one I got last week was 3 hologram stickers
<gord> daubers, did you not find that surprising? ;)
<daubers> gord: Just disappointing. I wrote in and complained
 * peng42phone suspects touchpad would run Ubuntu well with a bit of force
<bigcalm> People say otherwise, but I say that Unity was designed with the touch interface in mind
<davmor2> peng42phone: once you figure out how to get it on there
<peng42phone> Davmor2: that's the bit of force
<davmor2> peng42phone: aggravated GBH requires less force ;)
<MooDoo> i'm using the force now!
<MooDoo> santa vader uses the force at christmas with luke.....feeling his presents ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I think you're confused it's Darth Vader or Santa Claus I know it confusing but do keep up ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: sorry, i haven't poked czajkowski in ahile so i'm out of touch with these things...
<peng42phone> Davmor2: I don't know, but it's Linux already, so should only need a light hammer
<daubers> peng42phone: Better chance of android running on it I'd imagine
<peng42phone> Daubers: why?  I think webos is much closer to std Linux
<davmor2> MooDoo: sometimes you're just wrong! this isn't one though poke away :D, /me locks himself in a bunker so czajkowski can't get him
<czajkowski> knock yerselves out lads
<czajkowski> on me holidays
<czajkowski> :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: poke pke poke poke poke
 * peng42phone awaits a train at Hope station
<MooDoo> davmor2: on crud she's on hols so she's happy...pah denied
<MartijnVdS> peng42phone: station names like that are always a bad sign :)
<peng42phone> Indeed
<peng42phone> Very few stop here
<davmor2> MooDoo: were you trying to call czajkowski a pyke then
<MooDoo> davmor2: O_o with my reputation ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: czajkowski would kill you if you were ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm not scared of czajkowski [as long as thre are miles in between us]
<davmor2> HA
<MooDoo> brb all
<czajkowski> and no rugby matches
<scoundrel50a> bug 827198 anybody worked out if there is a fix for this.....I still cant get it to work, and the .deb package install wont intall
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 827198 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "Kernel update google Chrome and Chromium freeze" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827198
<scoundrel50a> anbody any ideas? the bug fix seemed to stop after that was suggested from what I can see, and no updates have appeared since then
<czajkowski> scoundrel50a: no idea have you tried asking in #ubuntu-bugs
<popey> scoundrel50a: I commented on the bug and you made the same mistake again
<popey> scoundrel50a: you need to "escape" the ~ character in the package when you install it
<popey> scoundrel50a: dpkg -i <press tab> to fill in the name of the package for you
<scoundrel50a> I tried the dpkg -i and tab and that didnt work, I just looked in the url and didnt see the ~ sign either, ok, will give it a try again, one sec
<popey> you need to have the files downloaded in a folder, open a terminal, navigate to the folder they're in and then dpkg -i the files
<scoundrel50a> ah
<scoundrel50a> now you tell me
<scoundrel50a> I have the .deb file on my desktop, I will see if that works
<popey> now I tell you!?
 * czajkowski hands popey a bucket of tea 
<scoundrel50a> sorry figure of speach, my appologies
<scoundrel50a> its working
<scoundrel50a> at least I think itn is it says its downgrading package
<scoundrel50a> ok, so I got to reboot, and see if that works, brb
<HazRPG> BigRedS: heh, was about to ask what I was lucky for... while scrolling back... so instead read ahead, and yeah... tab fail ^_^
<scoundrel50a> ok, I am really sorry, I still havent got used to the terminal enough to reaslise that you have to cd to the directory, when you install something, but it seems that GC might be working ok, the message that it closed incorrectly and do I want to restore has gone, or at least it hasnt appeared again, which could be a good sign...so far, after playing a bit, no freezing, and it was freezing on every page
<Azelphur> Anyone happen to know if something exists to use your android as a secondary display?
<Azelphur> that'd be pretty cool o.O
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: IDisplay (http://www.shapeservices.com/en/products/details.php?product=idisplay&platform=android)
<Azelphur> we're #ubuntu, that's Windows or OSX :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's a start
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<ali1234> Azelphur: vnc
<HazRPG> interesting, a 7y.o. has had an idea for an app, and has managed to get it made by others: http://goo.gl/4fr7Y
<ali1234> HazRPG: not particularly interesting, it won't be repeated
<ali1234> like most gimmicks it only works once
<HazRPG> this is true
<HazRPG> (recalls the million dollar pixel website)
<ali1234> or the paperclip guy
<HazRPG> I had the same idea at one point around the same idea as the dude who did that website, but I thought it was just too stupid that it wouldn't take off
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: remember -- IQ 100 is the median (stddev 15) :)
<ali1234> yes, by definition
<daubers> evening
<MartijnVdS> \o daubers
<marsilainen> if I enable the connection sharing thing using network-manager gui, does that mean that my machine will act as a dhcp server on that interface?
<marsilainen> or does it only work for one machine connected to it or what?
 * penguin42 hasn't used it, but I think it should let you share a bunch of machines
<penguin42> ok, who was arguing before about the difficulty of getting Ubuntu onto a Touchpad: http://liliputing.com/2011/08/how-to-install-ubuntu-linux-on-an-hp-touchpad.html
<Azelphur> penguin42: DAM YOU MAKING ME SPEND 90 QUID.
<penguin42> OK, where can I buy one for 90 quid ?!
<Azelphur> comet but it's out of stock
<Azelphur> :(
<directhex> everywhere is out of stock
<Azelphur> http://www.comet.co.uk/p///740314#errorMessageDisplay
<directhex> actually, comet have some in stock online, but their site is down
<directhex> argos is down
 * penguin42 will have to go to some that are in less visited places
<Azelphur> amazon have stock
<Azelphur> ordered
<Azelphur> :D
<directhex> my hot tip, if you want it: debenhams
<directhex> Azelphur, nope.
<penguin42> Azelphur: Nice, ordered!
<Azelphur> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0054689MQ/ref=oss_product
<Azelphur> see 18 new from Â£89
<Azelphur> penguin42: fun :D
<directhex> "Temporarily out of stock"
<Azelphur> click 18 new from Â£89 and then click top one
<penguin42> damn, says temporarily out of stock, we'll notify you when available
<Azelphur> I just ordered it right now
<Azelphur> HAHA
<Azelphur> I GOT THE LAST ONE
<Laney> huh, it let me order it
<penguin42> Azelphur: What does it say on the estimated delivery?
<Azelphur> free super saver delivery
<Laney> don't hold out much hope of that working, though
<directhex> the touchpad game is the best ARG *ever*
<penguin42> it let me order it as well, but the it stated during the ordering process temporarily out of stock and at the end 'Estimated delivery: not yet available'
<Laney> Delivery estimate:We'll notify you via e-mail when we have an estimated delivery date for this item.
<penguin42> yet the search page says only 5 left in stock
<Laney> reminds me of trying to get a wii for launch day
<penguin42> oh, I get it - the 18 new is total new, not the Â£89 one
<Azelphur> Delivery estimate:Â We'll  notify you via e-mail when we have an estimated delivery date for this  item. It will ship separately. You can cancel at any time.
<Azelphur> same
<Azelphur> I'm cool with waiting, I got one that's what matters.
<Azelphur> :)
<penguin42> well, we don't know that
<directhex> if they don't get more stock, you got nothing
<Azelphur> oh :(
<Azelphur> they just leave me in limbo forever?
 * penguin42 wonders what Amazon do when they realise they have about a zillion orders for something on deep discount that they don't have
<Azelphur> lol
<directhex> penguin42, first come first served fulfilment, with all the stock they have & can get
<popey> hehehe
<penguin42> anyway, it's Amazon themselves rather than one of their dodgier resellers so I guess it has a chance
<popey> 74.17 minus the VAT :D
<popey> (if they get some)
<popey> (which they wont)
<directhex> the questions, really, are: "how many touchpads did HP make?" "how many were sold already?" "where is the remaining stock?" "what is going to be done with the remaining stock?"
 * penguin42 wonders if some part of that could be predicted from analysing MAC addresses on the wireless
<popey> they're a lot busier inside than an ipad
<penguin42> got pictures?
<popey> http://www.ifixit.com/Device/HP_TouchPad
<directhex> http://www.techrepublic.com/videos/dojo/hp-thttp://www.techrepublic.com/videos/dojo/hp-touchpad-teardown-and-hardware-analysis/6254112ouchpad-teardown-and-hardware-analysis/6254112
<directhex> gah
<directhex> http://www.techrepublic.com/videos/dojo/hp-touchpad-teardown-and-hardware-analysis/6254112
<penguin42> does seem to have a scary number of connectors
#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-23
<daftykins> anyone attempted to get a discounted HP TouchPad? ^_^
<Azelphur> me
<daftykins> Azelphur: tempted to buy one at the higher rate and hope for the price cut to come in?
<Azelphur> huh?
<daftykins> we drove around here in the US today (i'm on holiday) but only one place had one and he refused to sell it, as it was the display model
<daftykins> well i'm looking at UK shops and they're all showing the high price still
<daftykins> like:
<daftykins> http://www.expansys.com/hp-touchpad-eu-black-32gb-209143/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=base&ito=1701
<daftykins> still at Â£430
<Azelphur> daftykins: amazon has it cheap
<Azelphur> but they don't seem to have any in stock, they will let you order though
<daftykins> oh? but will they really get anymore stock ;x
<daftykins> also from here, amazon.co.uk has the higher prices
<daftykins> well it's only showing me third party sellers
<Azelphur> daftykins: yea, that's what I wonder :)
<daftykins> Azelphur: eh?
<Azelphur> whether they really get any more stock.
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> some amazon.com sellers seem to think they still have it
<ali1234> http://www.facebook.com/nokia?sk=app_222130677837526
<ali1234> wtf nokia you delay the anna update by 6 months and then you obsolete it a week after release?
<AlanBell> o/ czajkowski
<czajkowski> AlanBell: delays
 * AlanBell taps fingers and waits for czajkowski
 * directhex taps fingers & waits for touchpad price drops
<directhex> daftykins, you were done a favour. do NOT buy display model touchpads
<directhex> display models have blacklisted serial numbers, to prevent them being stolen & reflashed with retail firmware
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers needs a cheap android tablet that can be flashed with 2.3 that has an ethernet port on it
<AlanBell> wifi won't do?
<daubers> No, it's being used at a trade show, so wifi can't be guarenteed
<popey> it can :D
 * popey hands daubers a WNDR3700 and a wifi dongle
<AlanBell> tether to a phone
<popey> s/wifi/3g
<daubers> popey: It's not for interwebs access :) It's for configuring appliances, and we're not allowed to setup an ap apparently
<popey> all the android tabs I've seen that have ethernet are cheap/crap
<daubers> Doesn't need to be good! Just have a web browser that works and look ok on a trade stand
<popey> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/7-touch-screen-tft-lcd-google-android-1-6-tablet-pc-w-wifi-camera-via-wm8505-arm926-42070
<popey> eg
<daubers> http://theandroidshop.tv/products/1/6/102_inch_android_tablet_with_wifi_camera_and_22os/ <- best we found and it's an ipad lookalike
<popey> and probably wont run 2.3
<popey> why not use an ipad?
<daubers> we've some custom app we wrote for android. Can't get full socket access to an ipad so can't rewrite it
<daubers> also, ipads are out of budget
<popey> I'd flout the rules and setup an access point anyway :D
<daubers> 'tis tempting
<popey> so chaps. I have been offered some free stuff if I blog about it (i.e. write a review).
<popey> pondering what wording to put on my blog to make it clear it's been given to me
<daubers> Do the standard "Disclaimer: This was given to me for free by x"
<ali1234> if i had a blog, i would blog about the stuff i got for free
<ali1234> but only when it doesn't work
<ali1234> if you're honest in your review i don't see why what you paid for it matters
<directhex> ali1234, nokia didn't obsolete anna 1 week after release, they obsoleted it 2 years before they started developing it
<ali1234> well of course
<directhex> it's a sick world when symbian devices are not discontinued but webos ones are
<ali1234> that's not really true
<ali1234> 2 years ago was a long time
<ali1234> oh, btw, webos sucks
<ali1234> writing apps in html and javascript? lol
<ali1234> what i don't understand is why anyone thought it would be a good idea
<directhex> android spent the first year of its life using a java *interpreter*
<ali1234> i mean why would i write an app for webos, when i could just write the same app, put it on a server, and have it run on all smartphones ever made?
<ali1234> well you know i hate java and .net too
<ali1234> do it in C, or don't bother
<directhex> c's for girls. do it in assembler
<BigRedS> I use the disk platter and a very fine magentised needle
<ali1234> i don't really care as long as the end result is native machine code with no dependencies beyond libc and platform apis :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<directhex> BigRedS, no butterflies?
<wintellect> o/
<BigRedS> directhex: only for calls to rand() :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<MooDoo> morning
 * TheOpenSourcerer is watching HP's website carefully. Apparently the Pre3 will be dumped at Â£49
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/08/22/hp.fire.sale/index.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> And the touchpad will be in Dixons online this afternoon(?) for Â£89... http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/tablets/hp-touchpad-uk-price-drop-confirmed--995403
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: isnt that story a day old?
<oimon> hence, been and gone
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - PC World have the 32G for Â£115.99
<oimon> in stock?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Apparently
<oimon> ooh
<diplo> morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<oimon> would love a touchpad...i just don't need one and money is a bit tight :(
<oimon> it's a good exercise in self control at these prices :(
<diplo> I'm very tempted, anyone here bought one yet ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> They have just gone I think.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm more interested in the Pre3 phone
<oimon> no doubt android will be on them by the end of the week
<brobostigon> good morning.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<MooDoo> ls
<MooDoo> ls -lsa
<MooDoo> damn
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning brobostigon
<MooDoo> *sigh*
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo and TheOpenSourcerer
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, http://imgur.com/95ulb ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://h41112.www4.hp.com/promo/webos/uk/en/smartphone/pre3.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> Twitter now saying they'll be Â£46 when dumped.
<popey> Morning all!
<MooDoo> morning popey
<matti> Morning folks ;]
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning popey
<MooDoo> hello matti
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, paid Â£300 last week Â¬_Â¬
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ouch.
<daubers> directhex: devaluation ftl
<TheOpenSourcerer> I did read that PC World/DSG would offer refunds to peeps who bought touchpads at full price. But that was unconfirmed.
<matti> Hey MooDoo
<directhex> company credit card, don't much care
<directhex> http://yfrog.com/kk3vkp
<oimon> anyone tried the twitter client called turpial?
<directhex> nein
<oimon> seems quite good and light, just struggling a bit with getting a few things working
<directhex> touchpads @ Staples
<popey> ""Server is too busy
<daubers> heh
<daubers> Anyone know if they've ported android to it yet
<Psychobudgie> there are a group of 12 year olds working on it apparantly
<directhex> daubers, why kill a good product'?
<daubers> directhex: Ask HP?
<DJones> Psychobudgie: I guess you've just read the same as me
<DJones> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/22/android_on_touchpad_project/
<oimon> pc world have the Â£115 one in stock
 * daubers ponders ordering a big wadge of electrical components off t'interwebs
<popey> i ordered one from amazon and fully expect it to not be fulfilled
 * TheOpenSourcerer has a farnell order winging its way to him. New soldering iron tip, sucker, FTDI cable and thin (avec lead) solder.
<gord> woo my japanese candy arrived
<popey> yay TheOpenSourcerer
<s-fox> Hello/
<popey> hi
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm trying to coat my flat in sensors over the next couple of months, seems that buying sensors from the US is _much_ cheaper than from this side of the pond
<s-fox> Hello popey
<daubers> i.e. I can get the bits to build a geiger counter for about Â£25 from 'merkia, where it would cost me ~Â£70 over here
<gord> http://ubuntuone.com/p/1CFx/ -_-
 * TheOpenSourcerer slowly navigates through Staples checkout. With a Touchpad (hopefully)
<diplo> Nice gord, let me know if it's any good
<diplo> Is that from the site popey mentioned ?
<gord> tis
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Debated it myself, so will await your thoughts :)
<gord> not opening it for a while, waiting for a friends packet to arrive
<oimon> popey: trying to download episodes from http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/ fails spectalularly - known issue?
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: link? i saw sold out when i checked 10 mins ago
<gord> diplo, http://blip.tv/youcanplaythis/i-love-candy-anpanman-grape-gummy-5414392 <-- where i got the idea from, if you want to see what its like
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: I'm halfway through checkout. And it is very slow.
<oimon> yeah the staples site is not responding at all
<popey> oimon: "spectacularly" ?
<DJones> popey: RCN got one :) http://rorycellan.posterous.com/hah-rushed-out-this-morning-and-spent-89-on-a
<oimon> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/673014/
<popey> neat
<popey> aha!
<popey> try now oimon ?
<oimon> \o/
<oimon> ta
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blast - Staples checkout dies halfway through.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Server is too busy
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, staples dropped the in-store price overnight, so they sold out in store at 8 :(
<MooDoo> hmmm staples near me, might go look later
<directhex> they only ever had a couple in stock in store.
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> er morning davmor2 me old pal me old mucker, bestest person i know *blush*
<davmor2> Morning MooDoo me owld mukka, you worry too much! :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i know....just felt a <insert silly thing here> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: You only got us up 30 minutes early don't worry about it :D
<MooDoo> pmsl oops
<TheOpenSourcerer> dabs have >200 HP Touchpads (16GB) for Â£105.00 inc.
<directhex> dabs is up?
<TheOpenSourcerer> just
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, direct url?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.dabs.com/products/hp-touchpad-tablet-webos-3-0-16gb-9-7--ips--1024-x-768--front-camera-wi-fi--bluetooth-hp-gloss-black-7K7D.html
<directhex> "More than 200 on order, stock delayed"
<TheOpenSourcerer> that has just changed.
<directhex> too slow :p
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yep - checkout barfed.
<oimon> bah nationwide have the worst banking website i've ever used :( slow and unwiedly
<kirrus> only on linux
<kirrus> it's fast on windows for some reason
<BigRedS> ActiveX?
<MartijnVdS> IE optimized
<popey> This IRC channel is optimized for irssi.
<oimon> kirrus: really?
<MooDoo> irssi 0/ :)
<oimon> the regular pages are super slow
<kirrus> oimon: yup. FF on my windows gaming box at home is fast, ff on the same box running 'nix is achingly slow
<oimon> no it's not that
<directhex> BLARG. hurry hurry, argos!
<oimon> directhex: Â£349
<andylockran> howdy all :D
<diplo> People who went to Oggcamp, anyone know where to get the CLI Track python app
<diplo> Fancy a play, links on cli track are obsolete
<freakyclown> im not releasing it yet ;)
<freakyclown> i am giong to eventually split it into seperate parts then release those
<diplo> aha, was about to look for your name :)
<popey> :D
<diplo> Was looking back at the vid to find it
<diplo> Great, will you tweet when done ? Just added you
<freakyclown> yeah when i find time to do work on it :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: you're quiet....busy?
<diplo> Cool, something I have been interested in ages but not got round to looking at
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeap, well it's that or picking on you ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: back to work you :)
<davmor2> haha
 * andylockran needs to purchase some wireless headphonse
 * directhex needs to purchase a Â£89 touchpad
<freakyclown> whats so good about these touchpads? other than being cheap?
<diplo> heh, if you find some where shout in here directhex :)
<directhex> freakyclown, they're nice?
<gord> everyone just got bored of their jogglers ;)
 * freakyclown strokes his xoom
<directhex> freakyclown, this is proper xoom-grade competition, not those Â£100 android tablets you can buy with 1.6 on them
<MartijnVdS> woo 1.6
<freakyclown> right on that happy note..ive done far far too much work today - time for the pub!
<freakyclown> back after some lunch i think
<oimon> staples website is still down way after they sold their stock..
<oimon> the "touchpad effect"
 * TheOpenSourcerer is getting pissed off. Staples site died during checkout as did DABS and BT... Come ON ARGOS! Do the right thing.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, crescent electronics site: down
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: argos have the high price, but no stock
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer,  https://twitter.com/#!/ArgosHelpers/status/105711228139220992
<directhex> oimon, everyone did reserve-in-store
<oimon> :(
<oimon> think it's taking a risk to reserve at high prices
<directhex> argos tip: if the price has not dropped by 5:15 today, loiter on the site at 5:30 (standard argos closing time), or the closing time for your local argos, and as soon as the store is officially closed, any expired reservations reopen
<directhex> so you can steal a reservation at 5:30
<directhex> oimon, reservations have no commitment involved.
<oimon> orly?
<directhex> ya rly
<DJones> The argos expiry for reserves is normally that they last for 48 hours though, so the order would have to have been made yesterday
<directhex> also, pc world have half price touchpad accessories - i have a reservation for a charging dock and BT keyboard
<directhex> DJones, right. some people did them the day before!
<oimon> check stock in locations though shows no stock
<directhex> every touchpad argos have has been reserved, but not purchased :p
<directhex> oimon, that search excludes reserved items
<oimon> do i sound confused? i am :P
<directhex> so as soon as monday's reservations expire, they suddenly gain stock
<oimon> my missis would like one to use as a posh kindle
<directhex> mobile pornstation!
<DJones> Argos is still showing them priced at around Â£400, are they discounting them at the checkout?
<DJones> AT least the ones I just looked at
<directhex> DJones, not discounting yet - everyone's holding reservations at full price & awaiting the drop
<directhex> related note: if you tweet @argoshelpers, they can extend your resevation :p
<DJones> Heh http://www.microscope.co.uk/news/reseller-news/touchpad-firesale-causes-server-crashes-and-sell-outs/
<DJones> http://ipad2news.co.uk/hp-touchpad-stock-checker Play.com website says they have stocks
<directhex> they do. full price
<DJones> Yes, but I wondered whether you could do a reserve & collect from store as with argos and just hold onto the reservation until the price drops
<oimon> argos arent' allowing reserve for me since there's no stock
<directhex> gah, i'm clearly failing to communicate here.
<oimon> directhex: i saw...i need to loiter at 5.30ish
<directhex> argos store has 10 touchpads. 10 people reserve them. argos store states it has 0 stock, as 10 stock - 10 reservations = 0 available. reservations last until the close of business the day after a reservation is made - so if those 10 people reserved on monday, their reservations are deleted at closing time on tuesday. so at closing time on tuesday, they now have 10 in stock again, even though they didn't sell any or get any deliveries
<oimon> maybe i should take a irl trip to staples round the corner
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just emailed my mate in HP to see if he can blag me a couple.
<directhex> they sold out at 8am. staples only carry 2 stock per store of computery items
<directhex> so they can avoid needing storage space in stores, they calculate an estimate of how much of a given item might be needed at once, and never have more than that in stock. mcdonalds made that into an art form
<oimon> how many people would be dashing to buy @ Â£199 i wonder
<oimon> breaking even/small loss on the tablets could have built up a big customer base
<directhex> oimon, i would.
<directhex> loldongs, argos are extending reservations until sept 1st
<Laney> O_O
<directhex> i guess i'll go buy my accessories from pcw then. argos seems a dead cert at this point
<penguin42> Amazon still not listing a delivery date on the one I ordered last night
<ali1234> lol, it's MSM/QSD based
<ali1234> good luck getting a real OS to run on that
<directhex> what's a "real os" in today's context?
<directhex> ubuntu chroots are common enough
<ali1234> linux 3.0.0+
<ali1234> it's qualcomm so you'll never get graphics drivers that work with anything other than the one kernel they adapted to it
<directhex> as opposed to every single other ARM embedding company
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<ali1234> as opposed to nvidia and TI, yes
<penguin42> there is a chance that the drivers are in Cyanogen?
<directhex> lolomap
<Daviey> directhex: running inside a chroot is not that appealing to me TBH.
<penguin42> Daviey: If you can run in the chroot I'm sure someone will figure out how to run as the main build but with the existing kernel; it's not that hard if you can do it in a chroot
<penguin42> getting a new kernel on is of course more challenging
<ali1234> yeah you can easily build a new rootfs to run directly on their kernel
<ali1234> what you can't do is change any of: toolchain, kernel, glibc, xorg - and expect it to still work
<Daviey> penguin42: well yes
<penguin42> ali1234: No, I'd expect anything other than the kernel to work - possibly not x depending where they put the graphics driver
<penguin42> especially if you hit it with a big enough hammer :-)
<ali1234> given the mad rush to buy them, the hammer might just be big enough
<ali1234> but don't expect any help from qualcomm
<diplo> kazade, not sure if you follow hotukdeals, but they jus ttweeted Expansys, Prepaymania and Misco all going to have movement in the next hour
 * Daviey might have a movement in the next hour.
<MooDoo> O_o
<freakyclown> tmi
<popey> misco seems hosed
 * BigRedS assumed Daviey is waiting on a touchpad delivery
<Daviey> BigRedS: exactly.
<DJones> A bit off topic, but can anybody recommend a free windows 7 pdf printer, I used to use CutePDF, but that seems to have changed a bit & doesn't work as well as I want
<andylockran> DJones: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/
<DJones> I need to be able to print multiple tabs from spreadsheets, but cutepdf doesn't do that anymore, every tab is an individual page
<DJones> Looking
<andylockran> DJones: used that in the past
<andylockran> not sure how much to recommend it though
<DJones> I'll give it a try
<DJones> Was also looking at Bullzip pdf creator
<andylockran> not come across that one
<directhex> palm eurostore is DOWN
<Daviey> DJones: Perhaps not quite what you want, but i wonder about creating a network pdf printer via cups on Ubuntu and sharing it? :)
 * Daviey has never tried this, but it should work
<DJones> Daviey: The machines at work only have windows on them :)
<popey> directhex: I am enjoying your updates :D
<DJones> The only non-windows hardware owned by the business is the sales directors ipad
<Daviey> DJones: Gah!
<directhex> popey, BLARG
<directhex> popey, i have all the accessories now - half price at pcworld
<Daviey> directhex: For your action man?
<popey> directhex: buy me a touchpad, there's a good lad
<directhex> Daviey, i've given up on getting multiple touchpads now. i'd settle for one.
<popey> directhex: get me two, I'll let you keep one
<popey> :D
<DJones> popey: Email HP and ask for a review copy :)
<popey> hah
<directhex> rumour: pc world getting more stock delivered later this week
<Daviey> directhex: i've been pondering getting 1 or 5.
<directhex> Daviey, i could easily shift five - debian BBQ is this weekend
<Daviey> directhex: Ah dammit!  I was thinking about going this time.
<AlanBell> o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> hello AlanBell#
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell even
<MooDoo> hi AlanBell
<AlanBell> home at last
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have been trying to blag a couple of cheap HP touchpads...
<AlanBell> waved to czajkowski as we passed at the airport
<MooDoo> AlanBell: did you karate chop her to the floor?
<AlanBell> Â£89 here are they not?
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you can find one yes. AlanBell
<AlanBell> and as rare as rocking horse poop
<TheOpenSourcerer> I managed to get 1/2way through checkout on 3 stores but their sites crashed.
<popey> Busy day.
<freakyclown> phone up?
<MooDoo> AlanBell: i'm sorry rocking horse poop isn't rare ;) http://www.totallystupidgifts.com/
<AlanBell> none left in bricks and mortar shops
<TheOpenSourcerer> I also quite fancy one of these for Â£46.00 http://h41112.www4.hp.com/promo/webos/uk/en/smartphone/pre3.html
<directhex> <directhex> rumour: pc world getting more stock delivered later this week
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, Â£46?
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's the rumour mill price.
<TheOpenSourcerer> $75
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Now you're trying to make directhex a sad bunny
<TheOpenSourcerer> or â¬75
<freakyclown> woohoo they are giving them away on ebuyer if you spend Â£100 or more!
 * popey spends
 * freakyclown giggles
<daubers> freakyclown: ddos-ing ebuyer?
<directhex> freakyclown, link?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<freakyclown> not really i just made that up for lols...
 * diplo wonders if they have the microserber on there
<directhex> gah
<directhex> popey, kickban time
<diplo> server*
<popey> hah
<freakyclown> i just got back from teh pub - cant be btohered working so trolling it is ;)
<davmor2> still makes me laugh the USA get the HP touchpad for $99 we get it for $184 not much difference there then
<daubers> Bah, why doesn't anyone make a powerline adapter that does PoE
<directhex> daubers, power over ethernet over power?
<directhex> daubers, i want powerline ethernet that works over wireless power!
<daubers> directhex: power over ethernet over ethernet over power :)
<directhex> davmor2, ours includes 20% VAT
<daubers> over
<davmor2> directhex: 85 dollars isn't 20%
<directhex> davmor2, it is if you squint hard enough
 * popey squits hard
<davmor2> nope
<directhex> HARDER
<davmor2> still nearly 100% more
<daubers> davmor2: You have to take in account export/import tax as well
<davmor2> daubers: This is why big companies have their Euro HQ here or Northern Ireland so they can dump the bulk of the tax off :)  There are ways and means my friend ways and means :D
<daubers> davmor2: Yes, but it looks like HP have enough problems already before you start the tax/duty evasion tactics :)
<davmor2> daubers: true enough
<Daviey> daubers: There was one PoE adapter i came acorss 2 years ago IIRC
<Daviey> (I was equally frustrated that it wasn't default)
<daubers> Daviey: an EoP PoE adapter? I've found one that will do it, and it's more expensive than a EoP adapter plus a PoE injector
<daubers> Which is rubbish
<Daviey> that was why i didn't go for it :)
<daubers> heh
<directhex> expansys just sold out at full price
<directhex> people have a LOT of faith in distance selling regs
<directhex> tesco stock has reappeared, full price
 * daubers just wants to run arduinos powered by PoE talking via EoP
<BigRedS> hah, I've considered that sort of mess a few times
<BigRedS> I keep meaning to raid some LVs just for the pointlessness, too
<oimon1> !oneiric
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 11.10 (Oneiric Ocelot) will be the fifteenth release of Ubuntu.  Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=646 Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1
<BigRedS> before I reinvent the wheel, someone *must* already have some script/binary/something that I can run on a new server, wait, and have it tell me if it's good or not?
<BigRedS> ideally where I get to define 'good' :)
<freakyclown> geekbench?
<penguin42> well if you're going to define goodness you're also going to have to write the script
<popey> phoronix test suite?
<BigRedS> Ah yeah, I knew someone had made one but couldn't remember the 'phoronix' bit
<daubers> how well it copes with a fork bomb?
<BigRedS> penguin42: yeah, I was hoping for a big script where I could just set the params at the top
<oimon> geekbench produces metrics and is simple to install. didn't have much luck with phoronix
<popey> Hugo Random Benchmark!
<popey> Everyone must run that!
<oimon> "by install", geekbench is a simple script not rquiring installation
<popey> http://www.hantslug.org.uk/wiki/HugoRandomBenchmark
<popey>  time perl -e 'for($i=0;$i<1e8;$i++) { }'
<popey> run that :D
<popey> see if you can beat Seeker`
<bigcalm> Somebody ask for a long wait?
<BigRedS> hah, yeah, I've had a few ideas like that
<popey> or indeed see if you can get a slowe machine than Simon
<popey> still chuffed my desktop pc is still in the top ten after a few years
<freakyclown> freakyclown@guerrilla:~$ cat vpenis.sh
<freakyclown> #!/bin/sh
<freakyclown> LC_ALL=C
<freakyclown> echo `uptime|grep days|sed 's/.*up \([0-9]*\) day.*/\1\/10+/'; \
<freakyclown> cat /proc/cpuinfo|grep MHz|awk '{print $4"/30 +";}'; free|grep '^Mem' \
<freakyclown> |awk '{print $3"/1024/3+"}'; df -P -k -x nfs | grep -v 1k \
<freakyclown> | awk '{if ($1 ~ "/dev/(scsi|sd)"){ s+= $2} s+= $2;} END \
<freakyclown> {print s/1024/50"/15+70";}'`|bc|sed 's/\(.$\)/.\1cm/'
<popey> !paste freakyclown
<lubotu3> popey: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<popey> bah
 * Laney hands popey the pipe
<andylockran> !pastes | fe
<bigcalm> !paste | popey
<lubotu3> popey: Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<andylockran> !fail
 * popey smokes it
 * freakyclown cares not
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/673110/
<bigcalm> real	0m7.685s
<bigcalm> user	0m7.680s
<bigcalm> sys	0m0.000s
<BigRedS> wait, is that some voodoo to convert a mass paste into a pastebin
<popey> haha, thats quite funny
<freakyclown> oddly i do use it to compare servers :/
<freakyclown> my laptop is 231.8cm
<freakyclown> as a rough guide for people
<oimon> are hantslug selling touchpads now? their site is down too
<daubers> freakyclown: Interestingly my work dev box is 1678.4cm
<freakyclown> damn!
<daubers> I suspect that's because of the RAID
<Laney> 383.3cm
<andylockran> cm?
<Laney> it should print out some ascii art instead though
<andylockran> my laptop is 13"
 * freakyclown suspects andylockran is doing it wrong
<andylockran> 755.4cm
<freakyclown> damn it is my laptop the worst thing on the planet or something?!
<Laney> phwoar, come here big boy
 * bigcalm horribly confused
<daubers> This topic may be drifting somewhat away from the !CoC (as amusing as it may be)
 * BigRedS has settled on his new benchmarking tool, ta freakyclown  :)
<andylockran> hmm. my vps is 37.7cm
<freakyclown> glad to amuse/help where i can :D
<BigRedS> I just hope nobody asks for the justification behind the numbers...
<bigcalm> 317.8cm
<bigcalm> For my workstation
<Laney> which part of the code of conduct does this conversation violate, then?
<freakyclown> bigcalm: or come in half way into the channel of people pasting the results!
<bigcalm> 391.4cm for my revo
<Laney> the no fun clause
<bigcalm> I have no idea which direction we're ment to be looking
<daubers> andylockran: My NSLU2 beats your VPS at 136.6cm
<penguin42> bah only 216.5cm
<penguin42> freakyclown: You may just have invented the worlds most awesomely pointless measurement
<bigcalm> iain@banana:~$ sh bench.sh
<bigcalm> bench.sh: 7: bc: not found
<bigcalm> Damn you Bytemark!
<jpds> 6.5k cm, anyone?
<bigcalm> Same on the Viglen
<bigcalm> Back to work we go
<BigRedS> Oh, I thought 600cm was high :(
 * Laney rubs up against jpds 
<daubers> jpds: Which massive server was that on?
<BigRedS> and why isn't it part of the touchpad selling effort?
<daubers> \o/ senseless metrics
<freakyclown> if you use the same senseless metric for all your stuff it still works :)
<AlanBell> 1237.4cm
<bigcalm> I still don't know if we're meant to be looking for a high or low number?
<shauno> I can't .. no /proc on osx
<bigcalm> Plus, without installing bc, it fails on 2 of my servers :)
<daubers> The metric for DVD players should be "How many pringles can you load into the drawer before it stops working"
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Ah, subject matter expert? :)
<BigRedS> bigcalm: prime is good, non-prime is bad
<BigRedS> :)
<bigcalm> Eh?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: We didn't have a DVD player when I was that young. You can however put a whole bag of Pom Bears into a VHS player and it still works! (After the grown ups take it apart and take out all the pom bears, poor hungry VHS player)
<AlanBell> subwoofers fill up with stuff
<shauno> I recall a sibling doing something similar witha  peanut butter sandwich.  our grown ups were less successful
<davmor2> hey Daviey does Sever still install w3m by default?
<daubers> shauno: Where they disappointed it didn't appear on the TV too?
<bigcalm> We didn't get a VCR until the mid 80s, so I wasn't young enough to be feeding it
<daubers> bigcalm: That makes you old
<bigcalm> Thank you :)
<daubers> bigcalm: Any time :p
<MartijnVdS> Same for me, and it was too high up on the TV for my little sister to reach :)
 * bigcalm is a 70s child and proud of it
 * MartijnVdS is from '80
 * daubers was mid 80's
<bigcalm> Sod. Stop making the rest of us feel old
<DJones> kids
 * penguin42 pretty much wore out the start of one tape with the daily recordings of Dangermouse :-)
<daubers> penguin42: But he _is_ the greatest!
<freakyclown> our first vcr had a LEAD to the remote control!
<mgdm> mine too
<daubers> heh :)
<popey> yeah, just not quite long enough to reach the sofa
<popey> WARNING: Trip hazard.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Our TV didn't have remote control - you had to get up and select one of 4 buttons.
<oimon> was that a hitachi vcr?
<daubers> we broke one of the mega drive controllers because it wasn't quite long enough
<freakyclown> BUTTONS!!!
<freakyclown> try an analog dial!
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: My old man always points out that when he was a kid, you had to go put a coin in the slot on the TV to make it work
<Laney> and it was uphill both ways!
 * bigcalm goes to lick road clean wi't tongue
<TheOpenSourcerer> freakyclown: You are not old enough to remember the tuning dial on the front of the telly.
<freakyclown> am to
<freakyclown> :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> VHF FTW!
 * daubers had a black and white tv with a tuning dial
<freakyclown> me too
<TheOpenSourcerer> 405 line.
<daubers> Used to run the spectrum through it
<TheOpenSourcerer> pre PAL
<directhex> i just had a box, and my parents would throw puppets in there. they didn't even animate the puppets at all, they just put them in the box. that was my tv!
<freakyclown> ive just realised that after what 150 years since logey baird invented it....we have come full circle with 3d tvs?
<directhex> (not really)
<daubers> directhex: That sounds like AWESOME FUN!
<freakyclown> with the flickering zoatrope esk viewing of images
<oimon> used to have an HMV telly :-\
<popey> i have my first black and white telly in the boot of my car
 * MartijnVdS didn't have his own tv, just his own pc
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I never had anything of my own.... joys of being the middle child
<freakyclown> we didnt own a tv till i was about 10
<oimon> popey: like pimp-my-ride? or are you taking it to the dump?
<popey> http://i.imgur.com/JB4CM.png <- touchpad
<freakyclown> oimon: you just invented a new show!!!
<freakyclown> retro-my-ride!
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: lol
<freakyclown> do 70-80s versions of pimp my ride
<directhex> popey, thief!
<popey> I saw it in another irc channel :p
<oimon> freakyclown: hey good idea :)
<oimon> ugh i need to take the dog out before the missis returns with sprog...its raining :(
<freakyclown> oimon: just open the door let it run out
<freakyclown> leave the front door ajar and then when misses turns up say "oh you silly bint you must have let it out when you left"
<oimon> doesn't work...doggy gets hyper if she hasn't been walked sufficiently..wifey would know
<oimon> requires ball-throwing
<daubers> oimon: Some kind of roomba hack?
<oimon> on the plus side, if there is an olympic sport of throwing a ball with a throwing stick at an object 60 yds away, i would be up for a medal
<oimon> daubers: swingball maybe
<mgdm> any Arduino users in?
<mgdm> (or clones)
<mgdm> (not cloned humans, users of arduino clones)
<daubers> mgdm: o/
<mgdm> daubers: \o/
<mgdm> Just acquired one last weekend, looking for ideas now :)
<daubers> mgdm: I also have a clone.....
<daubers> mgdm: \o/ i'm currently planning to put assorted sensors around my flat reporting back to a server using mqtt :)
<mgdm> My first project is http://jimmieprodgers.com/kits/lolshield/ :)
<daubers> mgdm: Ordering a smoke,gas and humidity sensor to start off with
<mgdm> nice
<daubers> I often wonder how much money people make by selling arduino shields
<mgdm> http://yfrog.com/h3cl3zbrj \o/
<AlanBell> so given that I have a chicken house 10m or so from the house, which is internally dry and could have solar panels mounted on it, what should I do with a nanode?
<mgdm> weather station?
<freakyclown> robot chickens!!
<daubers> AlanBell: pir, temperature/humidity sensor inside the house?
<daubers> Then a sign outside that says "The chickens are: " and 2 bits of plastic saying "in" and "out" that light up
<AlanBell> egg alarm
<oimon> argh wifey returned early...oimon is in the doghouse
<AlanBell> oimon: hope that is a bit bigger than the chickenhouse
<brobostigon> any chinese wheat noodle, suggestions for tea, by mind has gone blank.
<brobostigon> my mind*
<daubers> AlanBell: You could make super advanced seaweed! Simple moisture sensor, so when it's wet it's "raining" or has been raining and when it's dry it's sunny!
<Daviey> mgdm: seriously... $25!? for  PCB board and some LED's?
<mgdm> Daviey: I didn't pay that as I bought it off then at FrOSCon
<mgdm> it is a lot of LEDs, though :P
<Catbuskris> anyone ever play industrial craft?
<AlanBell> yikes, the rasberry pi computer thing looks to be ARM V6
<penguin42> AlanBell: In which direction are you surprised at that?
<AlanBell> it isn't supported by Ubuntu any more
<AlanBell> so if they put Ubuntu on it then it will be something like Jaunty
<shauno> are there many Â£15 computers that are supported by ubuntu?
<AlanBell> not really my point
<penguin42> AlanBell: Yeh it's an ARM11 - what do you expect for that money?
<AlanBell> ARM11 would be fine
<Seeker`> popey: oooh, am I still in the lead?
<AlanBell> anyone know about ARM? what would it take to build for ARM6?
<AlanBell> or it might be ARM11
<popey> an SoC?
<popey> Seeker`: seems so
<Seeker`> \o/ I'm invincible!
 * mgdm watches as the liquid nitrogen tanks burst behind Seeker` 
<Seeker`> :D
<AlanBell> popey: yes it is an SoC, the documentation seems conflicting about whether it is v11 or v6
<penguin42> AlanBell: It's ARM11 - which is v6 - two different numbering schemes
<AlanBell> or it could be both
<AlanBell> penguin42: yeah, just twigged that
<penguin42> AlanBell: The difficulty is that some ARM11's have different varients of v6, but that one is the plain v6 as far as I can tell; it doesn't have Thumb2
<penguin42> or a bunch of other v7 stuff
<AlanBell> the datasheet linked says it does thumb
<penguin42> Thumb != Thumb2
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> so it is not going to run recent Ubuntu ARM code then
<penguin42> indeed
<AlanBell> could a new Ubuntu server be compiled for v6?
<penguin42> too much of a pita - just run the Debian builds
<DJones> *&^%$&^& Windows, 4 hours to install updates
<BigRedS> Hah, I get exactly the opposite complaint from my brother
<BigRedS> that dpkg will not parallelise work
<BigRedS> while apt is downloading, it's not installing
<DJones> I guess its partly my own fault, I perhaps _could_ have booted into windows once in the last 5 months :)
<BigRedS> haha
<gord> i stopped applying updates to my windows machine, i have a methodology of "eh, i don't care." that has worked out well
<DJones> I probably wouldn't have bothered, but since I'm going to run the payroll on it tomorrow, I thought it was better to get it up to date
<BigRedS> yeah, I don't have anything of value on Windows, if it all goes horribly wrong I'll just get someone else to reinstall it again
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Tansom] Ubuntu ATI driver - http://www.linuxlore.co.uk/2011/08/23/ubuntu-ati-driver/
<penguin42> arrrgggghhhh - hmrcs phone menus are awful
<MooDoo> penguin42: tell me about it, and they had me on hold for AGES!!!!!!!!!!!
<daubers> penguin42: Press 7i to speak to the department for telephone interactions human interactions technical issues section
 * daubers really reckons phones should have imaginary numbers on it, for people who have no friends
<penguin42> it's like 15 levels of menus with them spending 5 minutes telling you how you really don't want to be there and want to listen to something else or look at their website instead
<MooDoo> daubers: friends?  what at they?
<MooDoo> s/are
<penguin42> daubers: I like the concept of complex phone numbers
<MooDoo> penguin42: go look on the website, you can't do anything regarding child benefits but if you go take a look, and realise you can't you can wait for hours on hold again
<daubers> penguin42: Just dial an international number, thats complex enough :p
<penguin42> MooDoo: Well, they say you should practice safe sex - otherwise you'll have to spend ages on hold for information about the benefits
<MooDoo> penguin42: don't worry, as soon as this one is born, my wife's getting the bricks out ;)
<freakyclown> daubers: thats why they invented IRC :)
<daubers> :p
<DJones> I wonder what mark Zucherberg would have "invented" if everybody had no friends
<andylockran> DJones: irc
<daubers> DJones: EnemyBook?
<freakyclown> DJones: facebook..so you can find people you stopped talking to years ago and random people you dont know
<freakyclown> people on facebook dont really have friends
<davmor2> DJones: Hatebook
<daubers> freakyclown: I have millions of friends!
<daubers> I built them myself
<gord> :D
<freakyclown> bacteria from yakult yoghut doesnt count!
<freakyclown> even if they are friendly bacteria!
<daubers> Awh
<DJones> Heh
 * daubers builds some self replicating bots to continuously tell him how awesome he is
<MooDoo> hay daubers you're awesome :)
<daubers> \o/
 * davmor2 removes MooDoo's batteries to stop him lying :D
<daubers> MooDoo: I'd tell you to replicate too, but that's kinda creepy in a mind bleach requiring way
 * penguin42 <holds>
<freakyclown> while true; do echo "daubers is awesome";done
<DJones> Seing "replicate" mentioned, did anyone see that a new Bladerunner was being made
<penguin42> freakyclown: That's what 'yes' is for
<MooDoo> daubers: so what you're saying it go forth and multiply ;)
<hamitron> what if it is not true?
<hamitron> ;)
<daubers> freakyclown: You're missing some kind of forking method in that to make it replicate
<MooDoo> freakyclown: 10 print "daubers is awsome"   20 goto 10
<davmor2> freakyclown: No he said they tell him he is awesome that script would never run ;)
<daubers> MooDoo: Maybe, but I'm not supplying the calculator
<MooDoo> davmor2: shush you ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: eeeek i sound like czajkowski
<davmor2> MooDoo: more importantly I'll be over your way tomorrow I can Thump you at will ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: you're not tall enough ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> davmor2: what you coming up here for any way?
<davmor2> I have hardware voidspace that another coworker brought in for him from the states and then there is a geek bbq at 7:00 too
<davmor2> "hardware for" even
<davmor2> MooDoo: ^
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i remember now you mentioned it
 * daubers fills his crontab with "notify-send" commands
<davmor2> daubers: cron != self replicating bot ;)
<DJones> davmor2: cron might not be self replicating, but at least it'll keep daubers regular :)
<davmor2> DJones: That Bran not Cron ;)
<daubers> Also, apparently it doesn't work :(
<DJones> :)
<freakyclown> daubers: write an irc bot that does /name on the channel, then does a whois on each name then finds all the channels that they are on and get it to join those channels and rinse repeat
<daubers> (CRON) error (grandchild #10093 failed with exit status 134)
<daubers> freakyclown: .... interesting idea... not sure it would help bolster my ego much
<freakyclown> and when it joins a channel it just says "daubers is awesome"
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> Freenode instaban I'd suspect
<freakyclown> dont do it on freenode then ;)
<daubers> :p
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> Got it working
<daubers> now every 10 minutes, my computer will remind me that I'm awesome
<daubers> Automatic ego massage complete
 * hamitron tuts at knowingly coding errors
<freakyclown> daubers: you spent FAR too much time on that
<daubers> freakyclown: It's been bad couple of weeks :(
<freakyclown> awww *hugs*
<hamitron> :/
<freakyclown> we all <3 you really
<hamitron> it will be as annoying as windows update wanting to restart your computer
<daubers> hamitron: At ;east it doesn't steal focus
<hamitron> I suppose
<hamitron> :)
<daubers> \o/ http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=4839
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> so not only do you waste time making it.... but pasting screen shots of it :/
<freakyclown> and we encourage him :(
<daubers> hamitron: The ego massage is worth it :(
<davmor2> daubers: wow I'm awesome you said so in that picture :D
<hamitron> :D
<daubers> davmor2: Everyone is awesome \o/
 * daubers should really get back to smacking samba VFS modules with a hammer
 * hamitron is just more so than most
<hamitron> ;)
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 29th August 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | We got our Reapproval \o/ | daubers is awesome
<daubers> \o/
<hamitron> :D
 * daubers hugs a popey
<freakyclown> right im off to sunny nodnol.....catch you lot laters
<popey> o/ freakyclown
<hamitron> cya
<hamitron> :)
<freakyclown> daubers: keep being awesome!
<jml> it's not sunny :(
<popey> haha
<daubers> \o/ \o/
<Seeker`> anyone here still use mythtv
<diplo> Afraid not, Moved to xbmc now
<daubers> lo
<dwatkins> fuppes + PS3 here
<diplo-> evening all
<alexcockell> HI all..
<Azelphur> successful previously mentioned headset hack was successful, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/August%202011/IMG_20110823_175853.jpg
<Azelphur> ali1234: will ^ try and overcharge the headset battery? just thought of that :P
<ali1234> it depends how you wired it up
<Azelphur> I just plugged the battery into the headset.
<Azelphur> nothing special of eventful.
<ali1234> then no
<Azelphur> cool :D
<Azelphur> so yea, from 600mAh to 5600mAh, that pretty much means 10x battery life right? :)
<ali1234> not really no
<Azelphur> oh :(
<ali1234> it depends on the charging circuit
<Azelphur> ah, the charging circuit will waste some power
<ali1234> lithium batteries are 3.2v or something
<ali1234> the new battery pack is probably 5v
<ali1234> so it depends on how the voltage regulator works
<ali1234> since it is designed to run off the power adapter and be as small as possible it is probably a bit innefficient
<ali1234> it will be a linear dc-dc probably, those are pretty bad
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> the stock 600mAh battery does 5-8 hours, I only want a full days usage so I can charge it at night
<Azelphur> hopefully the extra 5000 gets me there :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Little Brother - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/08/23/little-brother/
<popey> evening all
<diplo-> evening
 * MartijnVdS finishes run
 * TheOpenSourcerer has something probably called Labyrinthitis :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Getting vertigo - like being drunk but without any of the pleasure.
<brobostigon> :(
<MartijnVdS> swelling of the inner ear?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - something like that.
<brobostigon> misalignment.?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Virus
<brobostigon> ah.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: apt-get install clama
<MartijnVdS> v
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinthitis
<brobostigon> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Hah
<MartijnVdS> Dr Who fans.. http://i.imgur.com/rchqp.png
<TheOpenSourcerer> The doctor has prescribed these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prochlorperazine which sound quite serious...
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Neuroleptic means "nerve seizing," and describes the semi-paralyzing effect these drugs have on the brain and nervous system"
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: at least you'll sleep well?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: is this something permanent, or will it go away?
<MartijnVdS> (usually)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I bloody hope it goes away
<popey> My mum had that
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dr seems to think it will.
<popey> it was the menopause
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> maybe you have the same thing?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: OK, that's good then.
<MartijnVdS> men-o-pause?
<popey> indeed
<TheOpenSourcerer> Arrghhh
<TheOpenSourcerer> The jokes are getting worse.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Can I drink on these do you reckon?
<MartijnVdS> water, probably
<MartijnVdS> maybe tea
<brobostigon> i think TheOpenSourcerer. was wanting a beer, or similer.
<brobostigon> a hot toddy, or similer, might be ok?
<TheOpenSourcerer> The instructions advise against it but not in a "THIS WILL BE VERY BAD" way. Just like they say on a pack of Paracetamol.
<diplo-> Guys, just trying to teach myself some python
<diplo-> Installed pyexiv2
<diplo-> After installing a module do you need to do anything ?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I wouldn't risk it
<diplo-> As in reload python in any way
<MartijnVdS> diplo-: no.. as long as you used apt to install it everything should work automagically
<diplo-> As reading the modules site it seems I'm doing wat the docs say
<MartijnVdS> diplo-: you might need to restart any running programs before they can use the module
<diplo-> import pyexiv2
<diplo-> metadata = pyexiv2.metadata.ImageMetadata("/home/andy/Pictures/2010/12/18/CIMG3804.JPG")
<MartijnVdS> diplo-: As long as you used "apt-get" to install, it should work.
<diplo-> yeah i did
<diplo-> getting this
<diplo->   File "./exif2.py", line 4, in <module>
<diplo->     metadata = pyexiv2.metadata.ImageMetadata("/home/andy/Pictures/2010/12/18/CIMG3804.JPG")
<diplo-> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'metadata'
<diplo-> Any thoughts ?
<diplo-> Seems correct from http://tilloy.net/dev/pyexiv2/api.html
 * MartijnVdS tries
<MartijnVdS> diplo-: works fine here in ipython shell
<diplo-> :(
<MartijnVdS> diplo-: did you specify an explicit python version in the first line of your script?
<MartijnVdS> or just /usr/bin/python
<diplo-> Just /usr
<MartijnVdS> diplo-: can you try the two lines in the python interpreter (command line)
<MartijnVdS> or ipython (it has tab completion even)
<diplo-> Not heard of ipython
<diplo-> Will look into now
<MartijnVdS> diplo-: it's a very cool interactive shell to test python stuff in
<diplo-> Same error in python console
<diplo-> kk, grabbing next
<daftykins> directhex: nice diseases on them from being fondled is it? or just rumped <that word for the sensor input hardware> ?
<diplo-> Still not working
<diplo-> :(
<MartijnVdS> diplo-: what happens if you do the import, then type "x = pyexiv2.<tab>"
<MartijnVdS> diplo-: does it show a list?
<diplo-> ah didn't try that, ok..
 * diplo- likes
<diplo-> Hadn't tried that
<MartijnVdS> diplo-: ipython = win :)
<diplo-> Yep!
<diplo-> I like, easier way to learn
 * TheOpenSourcerer turns on his nightly cronjob to zsync oneiric daily iso files. Will commence at 1am. Probably about time I started looking at it.
<MartijnVdS> oneiric is getting better
<MartijnVdS> though unity still crashes sometimes, out of nowhere
<directhex> daftykins: blacklisted serial numbers. can't put retail firmware on a display unot
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> good call
<daftykins> directhex: i've got an order through a friends educational account on a US website, but they're delayed until the end of August - possibly they're in talks with HP about the price drop
<daftykins> are you going to get one? ^_^
<directhex> daftykins: i have fingers in many pies
<daftykins> you hate straight answers don't you ^_^
<directhex> daftykins: i've got at least three active efforts to get a touchpad on the go at the same time
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> US or UK? :>
<directhex> when one goes green, i'll cancel the others
<directhex> daftykins: co-workers in canada are under orders
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> win
<daftykins> i'm gonna have to get my friends to post it over as i leave here soon
<daftykins> but got it ordered to their place
<oimon> just reserved one at argos
<oimon> no price drop yet though
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> expansys had 100+ last night but they're gone today
<daftykins> no idea if people bought them hoping HP would honour the refund, or whether they marked them down in the night
<oimon> i'm not that much of a risk taker
<daftykins> we phoned up HP support in the US and they said they should honour the deal for the site we bought from
<daftykins> i know that's not exactly written in stone, but it was a little better than *just* hoping
<daftykins> plus i'm hoping we can still cancel beforehand if not
<oimon> argos twitter feed has been ballistic today, poor guys
<daftykins> with questions?
<daftykins> looking now
<oimon> daftykins: @argoshelpers
<daftykins> interesting
<daftykins> gotta run, battery dead, no mains nearby
<daftykins> bbl \o
 * daubers considers what to do on his getting old day
<daubers> got the day booked off work, want an adventure to go on now
 * penguin42 has the week off
<penguin42> daubers: Bake a cake - that's what I did
<penguin42> (last month)
<daubers> penguin42: I do that occasionally anyway. I have the option of going and having a painting lesson at games workshop, doing something exciting with sensors and arduinos or taking a bus/train somewhere and going exploring in the big blue room
<daubers> It'll be a monday in september so the world is my oyster
<daubers> or anywhere within an hour and a halfs train journey of Reading is anyway :)
<penguin42> daubers: Yeh I basically do the same thing from Manchester
<Pendulum> daubers: get your wife to book the day off and then book a weekend away?
<daubers> Pendulum: Too much money, we're off on holiday abroad in october so 'tis better saved
<Pendulum> ah, yeah. if there's a bigger holiday planned already :)
<daubers> Just had a look at the nerd day lists, nothing very exciting within my train circle
<daubers> 'tis quite tempting to go be taught how to paint
<penguin42> nerd day list?
<penguin42> daubers: 1.5h from Reading I guess you can do London?
<daubers> penguin42: http://t.co/PRsdbNn also, the problem with london is that I hate it
<penguin42> ah
<penguin42> daubers: Have you done Bletchley?
<daubers> penguin42: No, but it's not very easy to get there on the train (from what I understand)
<penguin42> daubers: Yeh I've been, it's got a station within a few minutes walk
<daubers> Ooooh... has it
<penguin42> transport direct reckons it's a little under 2hr from Reading
<daubers> penguin42: National rail recons 2h13 mins and upto 3 changes (including tube)
<daubers> also... Â£41 in train charges :(
<daubers> Might do bletchley a day when I have the car
<penguin42> daubers: Yeh I guess it depends on the time - Transport direct is showing me; reading->Paddington- Rail; Paddington UG->Euston UG->Euston Rail->Bletchley
<penguin42> daubers: Did it with a couple of equally geeky friends a year or so ago - was a fun day
<daubers> We should do that as a UUK think one day
 * daubers sets another video uploading before heading to bed
<penguin42> daubers: If you go then keep your eyes open; the things just lying around are sometimes more interesting than the things they make a fuss about - and you can ask the guys doing restoration etc
<daubers> penguin42: Remind me tomorrow and I'll put an email to the group
<penguin42> daubers: Here's my album from our visit: https://picasaweb.google.com/118251468822440261663/Bletchley
<daubers> penguin42: Cool! Shall definatley try and arrange something then :)
<daubers> Right, upload is running. Now time for bed
<jacobw> goodnight
<jacobw> i've just gotten back from an rms lecture
<jacobw> so many issues raised :| somehow, the lecture was diverted in to a debate about whether council tennants should be evicted if they or their children were involved in rioting
<barrydrake> jacobw:  I'm at tomorrow's rms talk in Nottingham.  Hope that meeting doesn't get siphoned away!
<jacobw> it was enjoyable
<barrydrake> great.  Hope it is enjoyable tomorrow.  I gather rms is a great speaker
<jacobw> i think people asked him political questions just to find out what he thought about X issue regardless of whether it was relevant to the lecture
<barrydrake> sad really
<jacobw> he was a great speaker, but his method of answering questions didn't satisfy most people
<barrydrake> ah!  he's a diplomat!
<popey> hah!
<popey> he _so_ isnt
<AlanBell> that is something he isn't!
<barrydrake> yeah
<bigcalm_lappy486> I have heard other terms used for rms
<popey> out they come :D
<bigcalm_lappy486> Hehe. Evening peeps :)
<Myrtti> aahhhhhhhh... fish and chips â¥
<jacobw> he seemed to refute questions rather than answering them
<barrydrake> [opens can o worms]
<bigcalm_lappy486> Myrtti: late night fish and chips?
<bigcalm_lappy486> Myrtti: do you like batter bits if they have them?
<AlanBell> he is a bit of a character, he should stick to technology really, some of the political rants are rather damaging to his main cause
 * bigcalm_lappy486 could go for a few batter bits right about now
<bigcalm_lappy486> Leave the politics to Simon Phipps?
<AlanBell> no, Simon sticks to technology really
<AlanBell> and the impact of technology on society
<Myrtti> bigcalm_lappy486: we've been having a project today, so dinner got a bit postponed...
<bigcalm_lappy486> I missed the Saturday morning talk, but I thought it got a little political?
<jacobw> simon phipps?
<bigcalm_lappy486> Myrtti: aaaah. It's good to eat :)
<AlanBell> bigcalm_lappy486: and we accidentally deleted the video :(
<bigcalm_lappy486> I should watch the video
<bigcalm_lappy486> Oh
<bigcalm_lappy486> Doh
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> there will be audio somewhere I think
<Myrtti> we changed the kitchen tap (it had been welded directly to the mains without any cut off valves) and got a dishwasher popped in too :-D
<bigcalm_lappy486> Ooooo
<Myrtti> been up since six to dash off to plumber supply store before the co-op guys turned up at 10
<bigcalm_lappy486> Myrtti: at dsample's place or back in Soumi?
<Myrtti> but eventually got everything done around 8pm :-<
<AlanBell> RMS can go off and rant about guns and the age of consent at times, which is utterly irrelevant to anything he actually knows about
<bigcalm_lappy486> Ah, coop makes me think UK
<Myrtti> my flat doesn't have enough space for a dishwasher of any size :-<
<Myrtti> apart from me myself and I
<bigcalm_lappy486> AlanBell: why do I have this image of Alan Moore replacing RMS?
<bigcalm_lappy486> That would be weird
<barrydrake> hey guys, gotta go.  gnight
<bigcalm_lappy486> Night
<jacobw> i don't think he wanted to talk about politics, i think he can't not give his opinion on a subject, so its inevitable there will be some political content
<jacobw> nevertheless, i enjoyed the lecture and agreed his statements.
<AlanBell> the freedom issues of council tenants being booted out because of their sociopathic offspring is actually something he probably has a coherent view on
<jacobw> the issue was approached from the view of people being guilty of being suspicous
<jacobw> there was a lot of issue to take in from the lecture
<jacobw> i found richard stallman like string theory, both posess an internal logical consistency but the statements of neither are easy to apply to real world
<AlanBell> lol, I like that
<AlanBell> I think he serves a useful purpose as a line in the sand
<AlanBell> if you go past this point, you have gone *far too far*
<Myrtti> AlanBell: past?!?!
<Myrtti> :-D
<bigcalm_lappy486> Hehe
 * Laney is at rms tomorrow too
<jacobw> slightly offtopic, is anyone else here an open university student?
<jacobw> i've been getting errors from their web system for over a week
<jacobw> i'm starting to wonder whether its a bad handling of a this-weeks-version-of-firefox incompatibility
<steve__> hi is anyone there?
<AlanBell> hi steve__
<bigcalm_lappy486> I was, but now I sleep
<steve__> hi AlanBell :)
<hamitron> no stamina
 * hamitron sighs
<AlanBell> gord: seen bug 739812 ? is that your area at all?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 739812 in unity (Ubuntu Natty) "Must use hardware keyboard to perform search for applications in Unity" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/739812
<AlanBell> night all o/
<steve__> I was just wondering, I have Ubuntu 10.04, and I've installed the default Flash plugin, but my videos are quite choppy, and I remember someone telling me before not to install the default but to install flash a different way, and then the videos were grand...does anyone know of the other method?
<steve__> I'm using an nVidia Geforce 5200 FX if that helps
<steve__> I remember the videos being good on youtube etc when I installed a different way, I should have saved the other file or method, its been a while
<steve__> :S
<hamitron> was it some file you put somewhere in ~/.mozilla ?
<steve__> its a fresh install so it wouldn't be on computer
<steve__> i'll just search online i guess
<penguin42> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/computers/ref=zg_bsms_nav_sg_1_sg   gee 1300% sales increase for touchpads :-)
<Azelphur> omg o.O
#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-24
<diplo> Morning all
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> 13 left to upload
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.youtube.com/user/onlysevenleft ? :)
<MooDoo> hello all
<daubers> o/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<freakyclown> you lot get up late!
<christel> morning
<brobostigon> morning christel
<christel> MooDoo: hows the pregnancy coming along, it cant be long to go now?
<christel> heya brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> christel: :)
<MooDoo> christel: still a week till the due date, but she's measuring 42 weeks already....she's ready for the baby to come now
<christel> \o/
<MooDoo> :)
<christel> how exciting :D
<MooDoo> yeah :)
 * brobostigon pre-sends MooDoo varius kinds of ear-defenders.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matt Daubney] A quick hack to cheer up a rubbish couple of weeks - http://daubers.co.uk/2011/08/24/a-quick-hack-to-cheer-up-a-rubbish-couple-of-weeks/
<MooDoo> brobostigon: already got a two year old in the terrible twos stage, already have perforated ear drums :D
<brobostigon> MooDoo: eeeek, ohwell,
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<Myrtti> ohai
 * brobostigon cant tell jokes, he reackons.
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait and Myrtti
<diplo> MooDoo, a warning... terrible 2's don't stop at 2 :)
<Eckrall> morning all
<Eckrall> just found a server on a customers site thats running 6.06, however it looks like the repo on archive.ubuntu.com is gone
<Eckrall> is there anywhere else I should be looking for the old repo?
<diplo> I think 6.06 is EOL now
<diplo> !eol
<lubotu3> End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<diplo> Yup, June 1 2011
<Eckrall> so they take the repo's down?
<BigRedS> I think they get shifted to oldreleases.ubuntu.com
<Eckrall> i can understand no further updates...
<diplo> ah there we go
<Eckrall> BigRedS: thanks, checking
<diplo> I was just thinking that Eckrall, we *have* to use CentOS 4
<diplo> And we still get old updates so yeah I'd go with BigRedS
<Eckrall> ;)
<diplo> Never ran anything that old on *buntu flavour
<Eckrall> diplo: i didnt know how old this box was til I did an apt-get update && apt-get install that failed horribly
<diplo> :D
<dwatkins> Every time I post on my blog there's a new version of Wordpress.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: it's not updated that often, when you broke? ;)
<BigRedS> yeah, I find that. I blog about every 18 months, though
<MooDoo> lol
<dwatkins> MooDoo: broke? I havn't blogged in a couple months.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: i'm just teasing.
<dwatkins> I suspected you were, wasn't sure what you meant ;)
<MooDoo> dwatkins: ignore me, it's baby and oneiric brain ;)
<dwatkins> I'm always a little hesitant to update Wordpress automagically, since the download might be compromised in theory.
<dwatkins> MooDoo: nah, I won't ignore you, that's too much effort to type ;)
<MooDoo> lol
 * brobostigon tries to thinkof something useful to do to waste a few hours.
<gord> hrm, started an upgrade on the laptop, sat down on the desktop and started debugging why my internet connection there was so slow, not a clever morning
<MooDoo> gord: facepalm! :)
<BigRedS> haha
<brobostigon> drupal on my mums blog is uptodate.
<BigRedS> I don't think I've ever seen an up-to-date drupal install, and only rarely an up to date wp one :(
<brobostigon> i have it uptodate.
<MooDoo> yeah i tend to keep our wp blogs uptodate, don't fancy a church blog getting hacked with pron lol
<brobostigon> yes, understandable.
 * brobostigon feels at a loss.
<BigRedS> Ah, but I've not seen it, so I can maintain my unenviable record...
<brobostigon> the latest drupal version is 7.7, and that is as drupal reports, the version that is there.
<dwatkins> I updated Wordpress, then it told me Chrome was out of date (as I hadn't yet restarted it to install the update it told me about yesterday)
<brobostigon> yes, someone put a screenie on G+ about that.
<dwatkins> oh yes? I think I need to add you lot to my G+, brobostigon
<brobostigon> :)
 * dwatkins adds popey 
<dwatkins> feel free to add me, I should be the only Dominic Watkins on there in theory
 * oimon appears to have purchased a douchepad
<brobostigon> dwatkins: done, added.
<dwatkins> My icon is bob from Bubble Bobble.
<oimon> directhex: opened yours up yet?
<dwatkins> brobostigon: aha, got notification :) now I just have to remember your real name maps to brobostigon ;)
<dwatkins> at least there's /whois ;)
<brobostigon> dwatkins: the notification you got, should show my full name.
<dwatkins> brobostigon: yeah, it does - I was checking it was you and not someone else on this channel :)
<brobostigon> dwatkins: ah, :)
<popey> oimon: where'd you get it?
<oimon> argos, reserved it yesterday at full price, purchased 9am today at discounted price due to price drop overnight
<oimon> argos, roman god of brown boxes
<freakyclown> oimon: i thought that was uranus?
<oimon> freakyclown: ewww
<davmor2> morning all
<oimon> i'm resisting the urge to open it and play before lunchtime
<oimon> i guess i should see if it is in one piece :D
<AlanBell> oimon: I tried argos but they were out of stock all around
<oimon> AlanBell: stock was replenished as reservations expired
<oimon> checked occasionally during the evening yesterday, and snagged one around 8.30 last night at the tottenham hale branch
<oimon> all windows in the argos had been done in due to the riots, and the automatic door was bust
<oimon> although i haven't been to argos lately, maybe it's always like that
<AlanBell> can't reserve or buy it now though
<oimon> AlanBell: no, especially since the price drop announced
<oimon> saw a tweet from directhex that he's done the same thing today
<oimon> i'm sure the excitement will wear off soon..like the joggler and the eee pc before it
<freakyclown> and those fancy computer things
<oimon> freakyclown: did you used to use another nick?
<freakyclown> er no why?
<oimon> have only noticed u around since oggcamp :)
<freakyclown> im ninja :P
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski should be up by now
<freakyclown> shes in irishlandshire isnt she
 * davmor2 waves morning to MooDoo 
<dwatkins> Don't they have internets there? ;)
<davmor2> freakyclown: yeap
<Hornet> anyone know of anywhere still vending touchpads?
<davmor2> dwatkins: you know she'll be back right
<daubers> davmor2: You only get half the bandwidth in ireland though, because it sends every packet twice..... to be sure to be sure
<oimon> Hornet: play.com..at full price :-0
 * daubers get's his coat
<Hornet> helpful :P
<Hornet> I meant at cheap obviously
<davmor2> daubers: you're going to be a dead man ;)
<Hornet> I nearly had some yesterday, but the webshite was being raped and I lost them in the chaos
<dwatkins> davmor2: yeah, just kidding
<dwatkins> Hornet: I assume you tried your local Dixons.
<oimon> at this point you'll have more luck in your local pub
<Hornet> er yes :)
<Hornet> tried my local everything
<oimon> i've already come across a fail on my touchpad in the first minute
<daubers> oimon: You're supposed to charge the battery first :p
<oimon> wont connect to my 2 wireless networks at work.
<oimon> so i setup wifi hotspot on my phone to get past setup and then it can't connect to the server :(
<freakyclown> maybe this is why HP wants to get rid of them....they suck!
<Adriannom> calc is autoreplacing any mention of "pi" in my urls, so that the links break.  is there any way to stop this?
<BigRedS> Adriannom: have a poke around for Autocorrect in the menus
<BigRedS> that might be doing that
<BigRedS> I can't remember where it is, though
<dwatkins> I thought HP dropped support for WebOS.
<Adriannom> yeah i've been looking BigRedS, no luck unfortunately
<Adriannom> oh wait
<oimon> touchpad can also run about 70 percent of the more than 8,000 apps designed for HP's WebOS phones
<Adriannom> tried adding "pi" as an exception to autocorrect but it didn't work.  it doesn't seem to be listed under the tons on autocorrect replacements
<Adriannom> weird
<Adriannom> it also doesn't even appear as the pi symbol until i click on the link (you can see it in the address bar)
<BigRedS> hm, peculiar
<BigRedS> that sounds like the sort of thing that should have a bug filed against it
 * Laney draws papers scattered over all of those nice neat surfaces on popey's office plan
<popey> :D
<matti> :)
<freakyclown> i think it says something that we dont get to see the other end of the room
<popey> there is no other end
<popey> note at the bottom there is a door and a windows
<popey> -s
<popey> thats the other end
<freakyclown> ok so linuxy question for everyone
<freakyclown> say i happened to have a dir that had ~25,000 images in
<freakyclown> whats the fastest way from the cli to split that into folders of about 1000 each
<AlanBell> how are they named?
<freakyclown> randomly
<popey> freakyclown: import them into shotwell, it will automagically sort them by date YYYY/MM/DD
<Laney> how do you want them split?
<freakyclown> i just need them split into roughly 1000 per folder
<davmor2> popey: I see two obvious flaws with your office plan, 1) Your legs are gonna hurt with no chair ;) and 2) It's way way way way way way way too tidy :D
<freakyclown> i hate shotwell.. it annoyed me
<popey> heh
<popey> davmor2: I will take photos when it's done, it wont be that tidy :D
<davmor2> popey: YAY!
<davmor2> popey: if you don't mind me asking how much is that gonna cost you?
<andypiper> popey: how did you go from "fastest way from the cli" to "shotwell"
<popey> andypiper: magic
<MooDoo> hello davmor2
 * andypiper nods approvingly, noting that popey is indeed... magic
<AlanBell> freakyclown: maybe do it by first char of the filename
<oimon> ok the excitement of the touchpad has worn off now :)
<Laney> i'll have it
<andypiper> how are you loving webOS
<Laney> fiver and a packet of wotsits
<andypiper> I have to say, I think it's the most beautiful mobile OS I've ever used / seen
<andypiper> but
<andypiper> still crap
 * andypiper has a Pre2 laying around somewhere
 * popey stops the clock!
<andypiper> he's lightning sharp, that popey
<daubers> andypiper: I had a pre plus, the hardware was too poo to run the OS properly
<andypiper> zomg the boot time on the pre2... shocking
<daubers> If it wasn't for the hardware being so pathetic, it would have been really good
<andypiper> ........
<daubers> Went the other way this time and got a Galaxy S2 as the hardware is pretty good :)
<andypiper> :-)
 * andypiper strokes his HTC Sensation
 * popey strokes his magic
<oimon> no kindle app for touchpad inthe uK :(
 * TheOpenSourcerer got an email from a friend who works at HP. Saying did I want a touchpad (16GB) for Â£69.
<popey> hehe
<popey> get me one :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then he failed to buy them. They sold out their internal firesale in 4 minutes,
<popey> :D
<oimon> maybe they can make it work better :-S
<shauno> so we should be expecting them to hit ebay shortly?
<TheOpenSourcerer> But never mind - I figure there'll be tons on eBay soon (slightly used).
<oimon> yep
<davmor2> oimon: I could of told you that it would have nice concepts but suck :D
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, they're up there. Â£200 starting price, by and large
<oimon> davmor2: me too. i didn't have high expectations,
<oimon> but thought it would at least have kindle or skype
<oimon> due to what i read on the internets
<davmor2> oimon: what you want to look at is getting android or linaro/ubuntu on it :D
<oimon> absolutely
<davmor2> oimon: then you'll have a usable tablet :D
<Laney> freakyclown: C=0; for i in *.jpg; do [ $C -ge 1000 ] && C=1 || C=`expr $C + 1`; echo mv $i $C/; done
<oimon> still haven't figured out how to close an app
<Laney> golf time
<popey> oimon: is there an M for you to RTF out of?
<oimon> ah, figured it out
<oimon> yes, there's a manual but...
<oimon> so many questions
<daubers> oimon: Normally you just flick it off the top of the screen
<oimon> daubers: correct :)
<davmor2> oimon: theres a button called power if you click on it the horrible saga all goes away ;)
 * daubers enjoyed doing that on the pre
<oimon> daubers: know how i can get skype on this?
<oimon> lots of mention of it but no actual downlaod in the app store
<daubers> oimon: No idea :) I only had a pre, and that struggled loading email
<oimon> multi tasking is v good though
<davmor2> oimon: they're both in there according to UK based reviews kindle and skype.  I'm wondering if they got pulled the minute that HP said they weren't supporting it
<davmor2> oimon: have you had a look on amazon to see if the app is listed on there site the android and iphone ones were
<directhex> oimon, go into settings/accounts
<oimon> yep
<oimon> loading...
<oimon> still loading..
<oimon> anyone wanna buy a touchpad :P
<popey> :D
<davmor2> oimon: I got a tenna lying about somewhere :D
<oimon> directhex: did you know this was gonna happen?
<oimon> still loading ..
<directhex> oimon, did you update to 3.0.2? there are severe speed bugs on 3.0.0
<oimon> how to update?
<directhex> settings/system updates
<directhex> there's also a bug in 3.0.0 where sometimes apps fail to start...
<davmor2> oimon: did you even glance at the manual?
<oimon> this is all very linuxy
<directhex> 3.0.0 did them no favours, really, since it's the version on display units
<oimon> the manual is 5 pages long, then starts in french
<davmor2> oimon: the pdf version on the tablet?
<oimon> directhex: i haven't done an update..did it take long?
<oimon> maybe their servers are getting slammed today
<directhex> oimon, it was slow, i reckon you're right
<directhex> it's not finished installing yet, started a few minutes ago
<oimon> did u find skype yet?
<directhex> haven't looked, i don't use skype
<directhex> okay, firmware installing
<davmor2> oimon: it might be in the updated system and not on the base unit
<oimon> how long did u wait until something started happening
<oimon> i must say the reviews i read were very kind to this machine
<directhex> oimon, the firmware update? took a few seconds. update server is slammed - 168M update last week for pre3 was much faster than this 38M update
<oimon> ah, skype is preinstalled, but called "phone and video calls"
<oimon> directhex: ah, i closed the windows and reopened, then started downloading, another bug
<oimon> did you buy any accessories? touchstone or case?
<Mez> So, anyone got an iPod classic?
<Mez> for some reason, banshee doesn't want to work with mine.
<directhex> oimon, case, keyboard, touchstone. half price at pcworld
<oimon> directhex: you bought all those? must have cost the same as the tablet
<directhex> Linux HPTouchPad 2.6.35-palm-tenderloin #1 SMP PREEMPT 129.2.22 armv7l GNU/Linux
<oimon> directhex: now running 3.02
<oimon> hey you have a terminal app?
<davmor2> oimon: now can you get the kindle app?
<davmor2> oimon: also check it's not another built in service :D
<oimon> davmor2: no, it's US only
<oimon> i wouldn't pay more than Â£100 for one of these
<directhex> oimon, that's via a dev console. but i have a terminal app on my pre3 called "xterm"
<oimon> are you finding the whole experience a bit laggy?
<directhex> oimon, i'm at work. i can't say i'm poking it much
<davmor2> Mez: Just sent a reminder out to the list I will hopefully be there but late so we'll have to see how late :(
<oimon> just bought a pack of mint club biscuits from the co-op. don't think i've eaten a club since school days
<MooDoo> we have the orange ones in the office
<Hippychick> if you like a lot of chocolate on your biscuit join our club
 * BigRedS joins Hippychick's club
<MooDoo> lol not heard that in awhile
<oimon> also...TRIIIIIO triiiio
<MooDoo> um bongo um bongo they frink it in the congo
<MooDoo> not choc though :)
<Hippychick> mmmmm i want chocolate now....
 * MooDoo gives Hippychick some mint choc chip aero
<oimon> it was BOGOF in the coop too
<Hippychick> yay :)
 * AlanBell downloads latest oneiric to see if unity makes sense now
<MooDoo> AlanBell: nope :) lol
<oimon> some slacker hadn't put out the labels yet but the friendly till lady said hey oimon, its a bogof, you can get another :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer has just installed last night's daily onto Magrat. 
<oimon> unity might make sense on a touchpad though
<TheOpenSourcerer> Had to use the alternate installer - desktop failed. :-(
<AlanBell> it would be so easy to make it make sense, just get the BFB to open a lense of all *installed* applications categorised by their gnome menu category
<Hippychick> i like unity on my laptop, single screen, i just dont think it works on my desktop with dual screen....
<oimon> while permanently hiding the dash?
<MooDoo> i just use ubuntu classic, although i've not seen how to use this with the new lightdm
<oimon> MooDoo: in oneiric?
<MooDoo> oimon: yeah
<oimon> i have it
<oimon> you have to install a package
<MooDoo> ah!
<oimon> hold on, i'll check the apt.log
<oimon> looking in my history, i did a apt-get install gnome-panel
<MooDoo> well i'll give that a try tonight, ta! :)
<oimon> no prob, hope i'm right. i def have it now tho
<oimon> although it looks a cross between gnome shell and gnome 2
<oimon> approx 50x quicker than uinity on this hardware
<log69> hi all! anyone interested in helping me test my software: tomld? security related stuff. I'm about to release my first stable version soon. my site: http://log69.com/tomld_en.html
<Laney> We are writing to let you know that we have cancelled the following item from your order:
<Laney> Title: HP TouchPad 9.7 inch Tablet PC (16GB, Glossy Black) - UK Version
<Laney> :'(
<MooDoo> bummer :(
<Hippychick> dont shoot me but what are these touchpads you all keep going onabout?
<ikonia-remote> they are directhex's nemasis
<BigRedS> HP tablet that was massively reduced a couple of days ago and sold out within about five minutes
<ikonia-remote> BigRedS: are people still snapping them up ?
<Hippychick> ahh, might have to have a look later
<BigRedS> ikonia-remote: nah, they sold out
<ikonia-remote> BigRedS: totally gone now ?
<BigRedS> ikonia-remote: pretty much#
<BigRedS> from what I gather
<ikonia-remote> wow, be interesting to see what people end up doing with them
<daubers> GAH! Would it kill F/OSS developers to have some actual explanation of what a blasted function does _somewhere_!!!!!!
<kirrus> daubers: yes.
<BigRedS> daubers: read the code and patch the docs kthx
<kirrus> And yes, I've said exactly that a couple of times :(
<ikonia-remote> so why keep saying it ?
<oimon> there are more people in #touchdroid than in #touchpad ...kind of says something
<daubers> BigRedS: I've just spent half an hour chasing my tail trying to find out what a function does, but sometimes it seems to just set a pointer to point at the function itself!
<kirrus> ended up having a lengthy email conversation with the dev for them to explain their configuration syntax..
<daubers> Lovely, the docs seem to say "You need to use this" but doesn't say what "this" is, or what it does
 * daubers prepares to waste another hour or two wasting his time digging through someone elses spaghetti
<daubers> seriously, would one line of //This function calls such and such to act upon something  kill someone
<MartijnVdS> *sigh* explain the WHY not the WHAT
<MartijnVdS> that should be printed in BOLD every time some book/howto explains commenting
<BigRedS> Well, if you're exporting functions, what's pretty handy, too
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: high-level what, yes
<daubers> MartijnVdS: If I even had the what I could figure out the why, since I have neither, I'm wasting my time
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: but prefixing every line like this:
<MartijnVdS>  // Add 1 to i
<MartijnVdS>  i += 1;
<MartijnVdS> NO
<daubers> FFS! Now I found part of something it's calling that references me to a file that no longer exists
<daubers> *mumble mumble mumble blasted samba*
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: no, obviously not. But he's not wanting to read the code that supplies the function, just know what it is that the function does
<daubers> Actually, what I want to know is what to feed the function and what it returns. All I so far know is that I need to use it because the docs tell me too. No idea what to pass it or what to expect back
 * daubers falls over stunned
<daubers> an actual function declaration with an actual comment explaining what it's for!
<MooDoo> daubers: oi stop looking at your own code and get on with work :)
<daubers> Shockingly, this function is commented throughout so I can actually figure out why it's doing things! MY GOD! THE UNIVERSE WILL PROBABLY NOW END!
 * BigRedS wonders if daubers needs tranquilising
<daubers> BigRedS: I need a holiday :(
<BigRedS> They're addictive
<BigRedS> I only got back from mine on Monday and I'd like another now
<directhex> ikonia,  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKM6NdFsJxU
<ikonia-remote> directhex: can't view it
<ikonia-remote> directhex: remote site is causing me a ton of problems
<oimon> poor popey. but you do have an ipad already?
<directhex> Laney, amazon cancelled my order too. except i already cancelled this morning
<ikonia-remote> directhex: you canceled your tablet ?
<Laney> argos came up trumps
<directhex> ikonia-remote, argos success
<directhex> ikonia, i've already got 3.0.2 and preware on there
<oimon> directhex: got a link for preware?
<directhex> preware.org
<directhex> i already have the webos sdk installed, so it was easiest to install by downloading the ipk from get.preware.org and running palm-install Downloads/org.webosinternals.preware_1.7.0_arm.ipk
<directhex> there are other ways to install things if you don't have the sdk handy
<oimon> directhex: sounds like you're already up to speed with this webos stuff :)
<directhex> oimon, i have x11 on my phone, so yeah!
<AlanBell> well I have the daily oneiric running in a VM and it is still completely useless for finding and running the applications I have installed
<MooDoo> AlanBell: yup :)
<BigRedS> AlanBell: yeah, I'm running it on my PC at home, and alt+f2 and the thingy that comes up with the windows key are worse than in 11.04 unity
<BigRedS> arguments not passed, some commands just not executed at all, no feedback whatsoever
<BigRedS> it is purple now, though
<MooDoo> hopefully i can run gnome-panel in oneiric
<oimon> just received a message from my bro in law who just installed 11.04 by himself and is loving it :)
<AlanBell> I fail to understand why there isn't a default lense that does what the gnome menu does
<MooDoo> oimon: awesome :)
<directhex> oimon, but did he install it... on a touchpad?
<oimon> he's in scandinavia, i don't think TP is over there :)
<popey> âº oimon
<ikonia-remote> activision suck, they with draw vintage games from production (ok that's fine) but then they also remove them from their website and online shop for download
<ikonia-remote> I've come away and left a simple game at home that runs on this crappy laptop and passes a few hours when bored, now activision have removed it so I can't even buy it again to download it while I'm away
<Azelphur> Amazon cancelled my HP Touchpad order :(
<ikonia-remote> others where saying that earlier
<Azelphur> anyone know where else I might get one
<Azelphur> kinda sad that amazon would wait 3 days to screw me over, makes it so much harder to get one.
<directhex> Azelphur, tesco are the only big player who hasn't dropped prices. otherwise, you're waiting for stock to reappear
<popey> Azelphur: they hardly screwed you over, drama queen
<Azelphur> they made me not get a tablet for Â£89 :(
<popey> "made" you
<Azelphur> I ordered, they accepted the order, they didn't deliver. :(
<directhex> forced him
<directhex> i worked hard for my touchpad. been up without sleep for days!
<popey> nothing to do with HP not having any left?
<Azelphur> stock tracking: it's not rocket science
<popey> hahah
<Azelphur> if you have x of a product, don't sell more than x
<popey> its nothing to do with stock tracking
<popey> if they run out they order more with the supplier
<directhex> Azelphur, the confusion is the limbo between "add to basket" and "order confirmed"
<ikonia-remote> ammusing that now the project is dead, the people want the tablet
<Azelphur> fun
<ikonia-remote> this is better marketing than HP could ever have done themselves
<directhex> Azelphur, if i add 99 to my basket, does that mean they have 99 less stock? what if i leave them there for a day?
<popey> s/dead/cheap/
<Azelphur> directhex: yea, that makes sense
<BigRedS> I like the idea that all these people are buying it to stick Android on them
<BigRedS> nice vote of confidence in WebOS there
<directhex> BigRedS, it's retarded
<Azelphur> yea, there's a $2000+ bounty on android being ported
<Azelphur> I'm buying it for android.
<directhex> BigRedS, "i got a cheap ferrari, now i have somewhere to stick the engine from my nova!"
<ikonia-remote> Azelphur: does it even work with android at the momen t?
<Azelphur> don't think so
<ikonia-remote> Azelphur: so you're buying a product, to use with a product that currently doesn't work, and may never work %100 in the medium / long term
<ikonia-remote> Azelphur: you could just buy an android tablet ?
<Azelphur> ikonia-remote: not the first time I've done it :)
<ikonia-remote> fair enough, not for me, but good luck to you
<Azelphur> ikonia-remote: lol find me an android tablet with those specs for Â£90 xD
<directhex> very few Â£90 android tablets have webos, this is true
<ikonia-remote> Azelphur: let me find something else that is a worthless brick to you and I'll sell it you for Â£40
<Azelphur> hows it a worthless brick? it's going to have android ported to it o.O
<directhex> android :(
<ikonia-remote> Azelphur: it "may" have android ported to it
<ikonia-remote> and it "may" work
<Azelphur> yea, it's a gamble, but Â£89 for a tablet that'd usually cost Â£400 is worth the gamble
<Azelphur> plus I can always put Ubuntu on there if all else fails
<ikonia-remote> how can you put ubuntu on it ?
<popey> chroot
<Azelphur> google it, it's already been done
<directhex> ikonia, you can run an ubuntu chroot fairly easily
<ikonia-remote> chroot....there we go
<directhex> i'm tempted to get it working, just so i can run spacechem
<Azelphur> but yea, I'm not afraid of buying things that arn't quite finished yet
<Azelphur> I bought a G19, G13 and G930 knowing that all of them had no Linux drivers
<ikonia-remote> or not started....
<Azelphur> took a few months, but I have drivers now :)
<ikonia-remote> be pretty bad luck if they couldn't get the screen or wifi or something working in android
<Azelphur> I also bought 2 jogglers back when it was cheap, even though it had no OS's known to be working on it
<krimzon2> if you can get <Â£100 android tablets, are there any unlocked android phones in that price range?
<ikonia-remote> I'm clearly getting board as I enjoy my vendor support
<Azelphur> krimzon2: check out the ZTE Blade
<Azelphur> it's like Â£100 on the spot and is actually a really nice phone
<gord> when the jogglers were Â£50? you could get ubuntu on them then
<gord> thats why i got one
<popey> AndyPad!
<Azelphur> krimzon2: orange sell it under the San Francisco brand name
<popey> http://www.andypad.co.uk/
<freakyclown> yeah seen those - they look pretty cool
<popey> we're getting one for review on the podcast
<freakyclown> lucky buggers
<popey> probably give it away
<directhex> krimzon2, wait for <100 pre3!
<freakyclown> let me come and play with it first!
<AlanBell> the big one looks good
<popey> hehe
<popey> wonder if you can flash it with webos :D
<ikonia-remote> I'm putting Windows 8 on my kindle
<MooDoo> windows 8 O_o
<krimzon2> i googled and zte blades were all a fair bit more than 100
<ikonia-remote> actually the kindle would make a great dumb VT 100 wise terminal style product
<directhex> ikonia-remote, i wonder how many retail customers have ever used touch-to-share
<ikonia-remote> screen+keyboard+wifi
<directhex> krimzon2, zte blade == orange san francisco
<ikonia-remote> directhex: ........none ?
<directhex> ikonia-remote, i tested it. it works!
<ikonia-remote> very cool
<directhex> ikonia-remote, i suspect i could count with body parts the number of people buying a cheap touchpad who own a pre3
<ikonia-remote> ha ha
<krimzon2> I wouldn't go with orange again
<Hippychick> popey: oly has promised me an andypad if i get a new higher paid job \o/
<oimon> i heard more touchpads are on the way
<Hippychick> i now have an interview on friday :P
<ikonia-remote> that's a good deal, you get more money, he'll buy you something
<ikonia-remote> I'd like that deal
<Hippychick> hehe
<freakyclown> kindle has already been hacked to run ubuntu - would be easy to implement a kiosk style terminal thing
<popey> hehe Hippychick
<ikonia-remote> freakyclown: I'd be interested if it was just a vt1000 that could connect to networks and thus machines as a terminal emmulator
<ikonia-remote> basically a lightweight mobile terminal emmulator
<ikonia-remote> that would be an amazing use of the kindle
<popey> mmmmm vt100
<ikonia-remote> popey: you on board ?
 * popey wants a vt100 or 101
<ikonia-remote> K100 project is born
<popey> no, I want a real physical VT100
<ikonia-remote> popey: I have a wyse in my attick
<ikonia-remote> you're welcome to it
<popey> thank you
<popey> but its not a VT100
<popey> :D
<ikonia-remote> it can do vt100
<ikonia-remote> it's not a vt100 device though
<popey> indeed
<popey> my "I want a VT100 or VT101" means very much exactly that.
<ikonia-remote> I'll re-phrase, "please take my wyse"
<popey> haha
<ikonia-remote> take my wyse......please
<ikonia-remote> old school stand up gag hac
<ikonia-remote> hack
<directhex> krimzon2,  http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/mobiles/mobile-phones/SAMSUNG-I5800-GALAXY-APOLLO/HANDSET&clearance=false
<popey> he's here all week
<ikonia-remote> thank you
<directhex> http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/mobiles/mobile-phones/SAMSUNG-I5500-EUROPA/HANDSET&clearance=false
<directhex> http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/mobiles/mobile-phones/SONY-ERIC-X10-MINI-LITE/HANDSET&clearance=false
<directhex> three <Â£100 unlocked android phones
<Azelphur> krimzon2: lies!
<krimzon2> nice
<BigRedS> if you buy a samsung you get extra annoying-apple points, too :)
<mgdm> popey: want to do something like http://www.flickr.com/photos/carrierdetect/2948518209/ ? :)
<ikonia-remote> is the kindle open hardware ?
<popey> awwww mgdm
<Azelphur> krimzon2: http://www.prepaymania.co.uk/mobilephone/san-francisco-android-mobile-phone-orange-pay-as-you-go.html?base&source=googleps
<popey> I'd happily run a serial cable into another machine
<dwatkins> mgdm: makes me wish I hadn't given away my character terminal :)
<directhex> ikonia-remote, amazon are actively hostile to working with upstreams. they have a strict no-upstreaming policy for employee changes to stuff
<krimzon2> hah, I suck at searching for stuff to buy, it seems
<Azelphur> krimzon2: I'd really recommend the blade, it's really quite fast for what it is.
<Azelphur> You have to take the orange firmware off it for it to be fast, since the orange firmware is a bit crap
<ikonia-remote> directhex: sound a delightful policy....where can I spend my money to purchase a device for development..... ;)
<Azelphur> but that's easy to do
<mgdm> popey / dwatkins: I have enough small Linux boxes that I could do that with, just need the terminal :)
<popey> ooo, yeah, strap something to the back of it
<popey> viglen :D
<mgdm> Yep :D or Bifferboard, or Arduino, or NSLU2... :)
<mgdm> actually it'd be amusing to strap a Viglen to the back of a touchscreen and make a megaJoggler
<popey> hah
<popey> not very mega with a viglen
<mgdm> More in terms of dimensions than performance
<daubers> There was an fpga board I was looking at the other day that was emulating the Z8 (?) processor
<ali1234> you could achieve the same thing with a house brick
<ali1234> but why?
<dwatkins> I'd like to build a media PC to strap to the back of my TV with a slot-loading DVD player so I can just push DVDs into the side of the TV.
<mgdm> daubers: Z80?
<daubers> mgdm: Maybe, was a papilo board I think
<TheOpenSourcerer> w00t! Me and the kids soldered up our nanode this afternoon. And the blinky led test passed!
<mgdm> TheOpenSourcerer: \o/
<mfraz74> well done
<mgdm> I have a Diavolino
<mgdm> Arudiono clone, no networky bits yet
<mgdm> I might get a Nanode later on, though
<freakyclown> bah i really need to sort my nanode mod out
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://twitter.com/#!/opensourcerer/status/106397397793509376
<Adriannom> ikonia-remote, what model is the wyse?
<TheOpenSourcerer> mgdm: Nice thing about the nanode is it has Ethernet and USB built in
<TheOpenSourcerer> Better start learning how to programme it tomorrow then.
<mgdm> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, seeing that. Probably cheaper in the long run than the Diavolino, but that was an impulse buy at FrOSCon :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> As was the nanode ;-) - Still don't really know what we will do with it.... Just something for fun and the kids to learn
<TheOpenSourcerer> They have both learned the basics of soldering today
<TheOpenSourcerer> 6 & 10yr
<mgdm> My first thing will be http://jimmieprodgers.com/lolshield/ :)
<mgdm> which I also bought, but haven't soldered yet.
<freakyclown> w00t
<freakyclown> nanode blinking :D
<ikonia-remote> Adriannom: 310 I think.....
<BigRedS> Hm. Anyone familiar with PHP packaging?
<BigRedS> Prior to installing php-soap I've got soap bits and pieces in phpinfo(), and I can't find out what it is that php-soap actually provides...
<BigRedS> Ah, it'd appear that there's a few different soap implementations in PHP
<BigRedS> so one's in vanilla PHP, another's provided by php-soap
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yay! How exciting... Our Nanode has just got it's first ever IP address using DHCP. 10.0.0.23
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: nice, might have to look into getting something like that - seems more capbale than the Arduino
<directhex> i'm not enough of a hacker to make use of such devices
<TheOpenSourcerer> They are Â£20 so not much money. (But you do need a FTDI-USB cable which was Â£12 from Farnell
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: Me neither ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just thought it would be fun.
<directhex> i have a touchpad though
<TheOpenSourcerer> So far it has been.
<TheOpenSourcerer> damn you
<TheOpenSourcerer> Still it will be a brick soon enough I guess ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Better go and prepare supper for the famile
<dwatkins> I assume the USB cable is the same as my printer and musical keyboard use, USB A-B
<TheOpenSourcerer> I doubt it
<MartijnVdS> could be A-mini-B
<MartijnVdS> or A-microB
<TheOpenSourcerer> USB to TTL
<MartijnVdS> ah
<dwatkins> no worries, they're only a postal delivery away
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://uk.farnell.com/ftdi/ttl-232r-3v3/cable-usb-to-ttl-level-seri-converter/dp/1329311
<dwatkins> thanks TheOpenSourcerer :)
<dwatkins> ah I see, yes
 * dwatkins assumed the connector on the right was USB
<TheOpenSourcerer> You can get them from other places too but I needed to buy a few other bits and bobs from them so...
<TheOpenSourcerer> eBay have them
<TheOpenSourcerer> and other stockists
<MartijnVdS> has allekabels.nl expanded to the rest of Europe yet/
<MartijnVdS> they rock :)
<freakyclown> \o/ so impressed at the nanode
<TheOpenSourcerer> There is a chip inside the USB connector case.
<freakyclown> if you guys are interested in the way i got round the ftdi cable issue ill sort out some pics :)
<freakyclown> so im using a NORMAL usb cable :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh.
<MartijnVdS> freakyclown: you have a B socket that connects to the strange header?
<MartijnVdS> freakyclown: s/have/made/
<freakyclown> give me a few minutes and ill take soem pics :)
<freakyclown> will show the cool case i made too
<dwatkins> oh, so it is a normal USB socket? *confused look*
<TheOpenSourcerer> Must go or else family will be hungry.
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> yummy spinach & bacon pie
<TheOpenSourcerer> pizza tonight,
<MartijnVdS> (& cheese, garlic, oregano)
<diplo-> dwatkins, sounds like freakyclown has hacked something to allow him to use normal usb
<dwatkins> I just had cheese & broccili pasta for a snack, sausage and mash later :D
<ali1234> where is the schematic?
<ali1234> nvm i found it
<dwatkins> Whereabouts, ali1234?
<dwatkins> I don't see diagrams on nanode.eu
<ali1234> http://www.thingiverse.com/download:26079
<dwatkins> thanks
<dwatkins> haha, I forgot I even had Eagle installed ;)
<ali1234> ah ok i see
<ali1234> this board uses AVR software usb stack
<ali1234> so it doesn't need the onboard ftdi chip that arduino has
<ali1234> the one that prevents you from making real usb devices from arduino
<ali1234> it's about time someone made something like this
<ali1234> the arduino is really limited because of that design flaw
<dwatkins> I guess if you only occasionally connect the USB to programme it, it doesn't matter that it's not optimised for that
<ali1234> yes if you only made a circuit to blink your christmas tree lights then you might not need usb
<ali1234> but if you want to make some kind of HID controller then arduino is rubbish because it won't work with standard drivers
<ali1234> actually even newer arduinos corrected this flaw
<ali1234> but in a really horrible way
<ali1234> they replaced the ftdi chip with a reprogrammable chip
<ali1234> so you can make usb devices
<ali1234> but then you can't reprogram it with the arduino software any more
<dwatkins> so you could do more with the nanode because its USB port is adaptable, as opposed to just supplying serial data like the Arduino?
<ali1234> exactly
<dwatkins> cool
<ali1234> so nanode gets my seal of approval
<ali1234> however, you are better off buying a maple from leaf labs anyway
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://ingol.nl/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/seal-of-approval.jpg
<ali1234> it's also arduino shield compatible while having reprogrammable USB, but it is based on a 32 bit arm chip
<dwatkins> so many choices
<dwatkins> I suspect my best bet (not having done anything with a soldering iron aside form build a few amps and LED chaser) is to start off with a tutorial or two on programming such a board
<ali1234> programming these boards is easy
<ali1234> you just plug in the cable and click program
<dwatkins> Well, I fixed my girlfriend's light-harp (Arduino) project, but that was mainly driven by the desire to sleep at 5am ;)
<MartijnVdS> deciding what you're going to use them for, that's hard :)
<dwatkins> yeah, Processing seems like a very simple language.
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: indeedy :)
<dwatkins> I'd like to make a weather station, although that sort of thing already exists for the most part
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's why I didn't get into arduino things..
<MartijnVdS> I know I'll use it for a few weeks.. and then it'll just sit there
<dwatkins> I need to put my Larsonator in a translucent box.
<MartijnVdS> Larsonator?
<dwatkins> Sorry, Larson Scanner - from Knight Rider / Battlestar Galactica :)
<MartijnVdS> ah!
<dwatkins> http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/larsonkit
<ali1234> that's a project arduino is perfect for
<dwatkins> really easy project
<ikonia-remote> I'll put my Larson Kit in my Dyson sphere
<dwatkins> yeah, I imagine you could programme the ATMega and then take it out and put it in a board with whatever supporting components it needs
<MartijnVdS> you could probably make that with a timer, some capacitors... no intelligence needed
<ali1234> of course you could
<ali1234> you think they had arduinos in 1976 or whenever battlestar galactica was made?
<dwatkins> I hear there are a lot of people making things with an Arduino when they could build the same with 555-timers, but at least they're learning something with them
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: sure
<ali1234> lol, they're learning to take the easy way out
<dwatkins> heh true
<ali1234> throw more cpu power at the problem instead of designing it properly
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Yes, everone should write ASM first, before they learn modern/high-level languages
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: just so they know what it's built on :)
<ali1234> no, they should learn hardware design first
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: oh of course, gates and stuff
<ali1234> RC circuits first
<dwatkins> ali1234: I couldn't agree more having seen how some people build electronics projects
<dwatkins> RC?
<ali1234> resistor/capacitor
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: building an analog scope, then upgrading it to digital
<dwatkins> as in discrete... ah right yes
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: would be a nice project
<MartijnVdS> oscilloscope, that is
<dwatkins> We learned how to work with flip-flops in my school electronics class
<MartijnVdS> I don't know if it's usual to abbreviate it to "scope" in English like it is in Dutch
<ali1234> you know when i was at university this is actually how they taught
<ali1234> starting with hardware design classes and assembler
<dwatkins> Oscilloscope Sure, 'scope' suffices.
<ali1234> they didn't teach C/java until second year
 * dwatkins throws a question mark at the previous sentence
<ali1234> everything else was pure maths
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: we had simple 'connect the wires' boards with several switches, several AND/OR/NOT gates on them
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I kinda wish we had those for the less able people in the class ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: we connected 20 together for a simulated traffic light installation :)
<dwatkins> hehe, neat
<dwatkins> I vaguely remember making a counter.
<Monster> hi
<dwatkins> This reminds me, I was going to make a speed-o-meter, I'm pretty sure I don't need an Arduino for that.
<dwatkins> Saw a really nice project to make one just like what they have in Back to the Future on the dashboard, even down to making the plastic box look identical.
<diplo-> Hmm, think i may have a go at writing a XBMC plugin tonight
<gord> diplo-, its horrible
<gord> i wrote one... not a fun time
<diplo-> First test failed, install failed :(
<diplo-> Find out how to turn debugging on i suppose
<gord> nope
<gord> there is a log file
<diplo-> ah okay, will go and find that I guess.
<gord> y'know whats awesome about xbmc development
<gord> they bundle their own python
<gord> its hideously out of date
<gord> it makes it neigh impossible to test outside of xbmc because of conflicting problems =\
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> sound wonderfgul
<diplo-> :/
<diplo-> Well as i am fairly new to python ill get to those issues no doubt
<diplo-> found log file
<diplo-> Could not read add on description
 * diplo- goes in search
<diplo-> Not erroring now, but also not displaying.. getting closer
<diplo-> :D
<freakyclown> http://www.freakyclown.com/nanode/nanode1.jpg
<freakyclown> http://www.freakyclown.com/nanode/nanode2.jpg
<MartijnVdS> freakyclown: is it just pin rewiring?
<freakyclown> http://www.freakyclown.com/nanode/nanode3.jpg
<freakyclown> http://www.freakyclown.com/nanode/nanode4.jpg
<MartijnVdS> ah it's not :)
<freakyclown> nope its that little red breakout board
<freakyclown> which is the ftdi controller
<MartijnVdS> yeah, but I didn't see the underside in image #1
<MartijnVdS> but that looks like a reasonable solution
<freakyclown> yeah i like it
<freakyclown> means i can carry it around in its new case and just plug in a normal usb cable :)
<ali1234> why don't you just use the onboard usb?
<daubers_> lo
<MartijnVdS> \o daubers_
<MartijnVdS> growing a tail now? :)
<HazRPG> hey all \o
<HazRPG> just got back from the zoo :)
<MartijnVdS> hey haz
<HazRPG> hmm, my sister is having trouble with her mp3 player and banshee
<brobostigon> evening HazRPG :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: on a stable release, or oneiric?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hey :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: natty :)
<daubers_> MartijnVdS:  Indeed, because I'm here an over there :p
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: what kind of mp3 player? maybe it needs some fiddling in /usr/share/media-player-info
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hey :)
<HazRPG> its a creative zen style 300
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: there are several Creative Zen devices in that dir already
<HazRPG> lsusb says "Bus 001 Device 020: ID 041e:2016 Creative Technology, Ltd"
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: czech it out :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: czech?
<MartijnVdS> check :)
<MartijnVdS> pronounce them, they're similar :)
<daubers_> \o/ Working from home tomorrow. Almost finished tidying the masses of electronic components off my desk
<HazRPG> lol yeah, I instantly assumed it was a terminal command
<MartijnVdS> daubers_: *WIPE* ?
<daubers_> Hmmm?
<MartijnVdS> daubers_: easiest way to clean a desk.. put your arm on it and wipe
<daubers_> Also, amazingly the Nanode talk has nearly had more viewers than the Digital Image Forensics talk
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah, hers isn't in there... zen style isn't there at all :(
<daubers_> MartijnVdS: Ahâ¦ no :) Some of it's important and/or expensive and/or going to make me slightly richer (maybe a few bob once in a blue moon)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: figure out what it's similar to, then add it
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: cool, I'll try that :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: and file a bug on the media-player-info package
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: if it's not USB mass storage, you might have to poke around with libmtp, that's more fiddly
<MartijnVdS> it tends to want a recompile before it will recognise a new device properly
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> well it's a USB mass storage device
<HazRPG> not sure which is similar, but going to have a quick look now
<MartijnVdS> probably one of the other Creatives
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/media-player-info -> check current (and old) bugs for how to get support for new devices
<marsilainen> hi all, I'm having an issue with a lucid machine which has two network interfaces
<marsilainen> one of the interfaces (wlan0) is set to pickup dhcp and seems to be working fine
<marsilainen> I'm trying to make the other interface (eth0) use static
<marsilainen> also, I want to be a dhcp server on the eth0 interface
<marsilainen> in /etc/network/interfaces I have eth0 set to static with ip etc and when I start /etc/init.d/networking it gets the correct IP: 192.168.8.1
<marsilainen> the dhcp server is running on eth0 fine too - a client machine connects and gets the IP address 192.168.8.64
<marsilainen> at some time later - within a few mins usually the eth0 address changes from 192.168.8.1 to 192.168.8.65 as though it has picked up a dhcp address from its own dhcp server
<marsilainen> I'm not sure what could be causing that to happen?
<ikonia-remote> marsilainen: is it running a dhcp server ?
<ikonia-remote> marsilainen: do you see a lease file for your own machine ?
<ikonia-remote> marsilainen: is gnome-network-manager running ?
<ikonia-remote> marsilainen: what does the entry in the interfaces file say after the new IP
<ikonia-remote> is dhclient running ?
<ikonia-remote> all questions that need answers
<marsilainen> ikonia-remote: yes, it is running a dhcp server
<marsilainen> yes, there seems to be a lease file for my machine
<marsilainen> it's headless so no gnome-network-manager
<marsilainen> dhclient is running (needs that for wlan0 I guess)
<marsilainen> one second
<marsilainen> the entry for eth0 in interfaces is:
<marsilainen> iface eth0 inet static
<marsilainen>     address 192.168.8.1
<marsilainen>     netmask 255.255.255.0
<ikonia-remote> marsilainen: ok, so either a.) that file is being ignored. b.) something else is overriding it (such as gnome-network-manager) and starting dhclient on it
<marsilainen> there is an "auto eth0" line before that block
<marsilainen> gnome-network-manager isn't installed AFAIK
<marsilainen> is there something else?
<marsilainen> how about network-manager itself (non-gnome)?
<marsilainen> doesn't seem to be installed though
<ikonia-remote> why do you have an auto line and a static lines for the same device ?
<marsilainen> isn't the auto line just telling it to automatically start that interface when networking starts?
<ikonia-remote> or is it just auto eth0 without the dhcp line
<marsilainen> correct
<marsilainen> auto eth0
<marsilainen> then the block above: iface eth0 inet static etc...
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: what do I do after I've added one in?
<ikonia-remote> so what on your system could be overriding it ?
<marsilainen> I think that interfaces file is correct because if I do: /etc/init.d/networking restart    then it goes back to 192.168.8.1
<ikonia-remote> marsilainen: ok, so something has to be overriding it
<ikonia-remote> marsilainen: what is likley on your system ?
<marsilainen> so it looks like that part is right and then something cuts in later and requests a dhcp address for it, but I don't know what?
<marsilainen> I have no idea... that's why I'm here :)
<ikonia-remote> marsilainen: do a ps -ef and see if anything jumps out
<marsilainen> it's a fairly much stock lucid system
<marsilainen> ok
<ikonia-remote> marsilainen: is it a desktop install ?
<marsilainen> no, server
<ikonia-remote> so you used the server install CD ?
<marsilainen> how does dhclient3 get launched?
<marsilainen> I see it there in the ps listing
<marsilainen> correct
<ikonia-remote> marsilainen: you need to find what's launching it for eth0 - not what's launching it,
<marsilainen> well yes
<ikonia-remote> marsilainen: having it running is fine if you're using it on another interface
<marsilainen> ikonia-remote: ok, but it's running twice, with different params, once for each interface
<marsilainen> pointing at the leases files for the interface etc
<ikonia-remote> marsilainen: ok, so you need to find what's launching it then, if it's doing it for both interfaces, look at the dhclient.conf also (maybe called dhclient3.conf on ubuntu
<marsilainen> if I run "sudo /etc/init.d/networking stop" then the dhclient process for wlan0 dies, but the one for eth0 stays
<marsilainen> even though both interfaces do go down
<marsilainen> which seems odd...
<marsilainen> maybe it's running from earlier before I changed the config?
<marsilainen> maybe I should kill it and see if it comes back or not?
<marsilainen> ok, I stopped networking, killed that process, and started networking again
<marsilainen> now there is only dhclient running for wlan0
<marsilainen> so maybe that has done the trick
<marsilainen> maybe it didn't get killed after I changed the config to make eth0 static or something?
<marsilainen> perhaps I should have stopped networking before I made that changed
<marsilainen> just a guess though
<marsilainen> anyway, fingers crossed it doesn't come back...
<ikonia-remote> do a reboot
<ikonia-remote> clean state machine
<marsilainen> sure, will do
<marsilainen> right, well rebooted and it's come up looking correct
<marsilainen> so I'll wait a while now to check it doesn't switch IP again
<marsilainen> thanks for the help
<ikonia-remote> marsilainen: you found it on your own, so well done you
<marsilainen> seems to be keeping the right IP now so fingers crossed it's solved
<AlanBell> https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=192756097451494 real life Monopoly game :)
<AlanBell> !info r6040
<lubotu3> Package r6040 does not exist in natty
<gord> aww, flash broke i latest buntus :(
<dwatkins> What kind of broke, gord?
<gord> broke in to tiny little pieces
<gord> hangs firefox, doesn't load the plugin in chromium
<dwatkins> oh bah, any useful info from an strace?
<dwatkins> I assume this is 11.04, gord.
<AlanBell> and twitter explodes
<AlanBell> Steve Jobs has resigned
<gord> dwatkins, erm no, 11.10
<dwatkins> gord: ok thanks
<hamitron> AlanBell: twitter explodes?
 * hamitron dreams
<hamitron> ;)
<freakyclown> shows that i follow only sensible people - took me several minutes of clicking about to find that news
<ging> \o/ tell me it's true i hate that man
<hamitron> now now ping
<hamitron> ging
<hamitron> ;)
 * freakyclown acks ging 
<HazRPG> \o
<freakyclown> anyone got a good guide/tutorial on sending packets via the ES on nanode?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-25
<ali1234> find the datasheet for the chip
<ali1234> that will reveal all
<daubers> lo
<diplo> Morning
 * daubers puts the kettle on branches some code and makes some cocoa pops
<diplo> makes cocoa pops? You have zeee recipe?!?!
<diplo> :P
<daubers> diplo: Easiest recipe of all. 1. Open box, 2. Pour in bowl, 3. add milk, 4. Nom nom nom nom nom nom
<diplo> :o
<diplo> Really don't know how people have chocolate cereals, especially early morning
<diplo> My kids love them
<popey> mine too
<popey> they prefer chocolate croissants
<diplo> yeah really anything with a hint of chocolate goes down well
<diplo> :(
<diplo> Bad dad!
<daubers> \o/ Cocoa pops are a treat for me these days
<daubers> Normally eat either toast or weetabix type stuffs
 * daubers ponders where that pesky struct definition is hiding
<midmandle> lo all
<diplo> morning midmandle
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> hahah http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/25/alleged-hp-touchpad-running-android-appears-can-be-yours-on-eba/
<diplo> heh just saw that myself popey
<diplo> Be good if it is legit, save a lot of dev time
<popey> i like the claims that its fake
<diplo> yeah.. quite understandable if qualcomm were testing it under android, especially if they heard from HP that it may be dropped
<JamesTait> Good morning, everyone!
<popey> pondering taking my usb dongle and wifi access point on holiday :D
<oimon> i'd do it
<dwatkins> I'd just take the dongle and a netbook, start a network from there.
<oimon> tethering is allowed on my t-mob contract so i do that instead
<popey> dwatkins: i have already put openwrt on a router, so its all ready to go :D
<popey> just plug it in
<dwatkins> popey: nice :) I'm considering getting a Linksys for Tomato fun
<dwatkins> How does it connect to the dongle, popey?
<popey> usb port
<dwatkins> oh nice, which model of router?
<popey> netgear wndr3700
<dwatkins> cheers, will have a look into that
<popey> yay Laney
<bigcalm> Hello peeps
<MooDoo> hullo
<Laney> ????????
<popey> DMB mail
<Laney> oh yar darling
<matti> :)
<bigcalm> It's weird that it feels like Monday because I had yesterday off sick. 2 Mondays in one week, woe is me
<kirrus> Could be worse.. you could have had tuesday and thursday off, and so had a week of mondays..
<diplo> Anyone use dvgrab in here ?
<diplo> Very new to video
<AlanBell> diplo: yes
<diplo> Any tips, I have got an old Sharp Tape camcorder from my dad, he has never copied captures from tapes
<diplo> Want to create him a dvd
<diplo> So using dvgrab to take footage off
<diplo> Seems to split into 1GB files when I save in dv
<diplo> Just googling for some examples atm, but thought I'd ask to see what people in here use
<AlanBell> yes, it does that
<AlanBell> you can load them into openshot or another editor and then export the whole thing as something else
<diplo> Cool, just installed openshot, will give it another try now
<oimon> one of the kde apps is good for dv capture.
<oimon> kino or kdenlive , can't remember which
<diplo> yeah kino i keep seeing
<oimon> but i didn't use it for editing. openshot or pitivi ..kino kept crashing
<diplo> dvgrab seems to be working fairly well, going to experiment
<diplo> Trying autosplit now so it's ready to be used directly in openshot without me cutting it
<diplo> All new to me
<diplo> :)
<diplo> AlanBell, --size 0 stops the default 1gb limit fyi
<AlanBell> nice
<diplo> Seems my fathers camera skills aren't that great :D
<daubers> wGAHHHHHHH
<daubers> Commenting a structure with just it's own name IS NOT HELPFUL
<oimon> although ginormous files loaded into the app might increase tendency to crash :P
<diplo> Seems most files are 200mb each with autosplit set
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Oh, my sister tried to use her MP3 player again today... after I'd created that file yesterday... and still no joy...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you might need to run something on those files to generate the udev rules
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: *shrug*
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: check out the source of the music-player-info package (media-player-info?) and see what it does on build
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also, file that bug :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I shall :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> Yes, it is!
<brobostigon> yes.
<oimon> rather wet here
<brobostigon> dry here.
<popey> Indoors here.
<brobostigon> same.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just ordered a little RGB LED kit so I can do this: http://blog.thiseldo.co.uk/?p=574
<oimon> the view from my window is so grey today it reminds me of when i visited communist russia
<popey> :D
<gord> sunnyhere! :P
 * Hippychick steals gord's sun
<MartijnVdS> We only get rain here :(
<MooDoo> blimey i've just noticed, it's quite sunny here too :S
<TheOpenSourcerer> drizzle here - but clearing by the looks of it.
 * bigcalm enjoys the sun while he can
 * Hippychick steals MooDoo's sun too
<bigcalm> It's taking the edge off the oggflu
<Hippychick> i want sun!! its tipping it down here :(
<oimon> oggcamp..where the only viruses you get are human ones...
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: "oggflu"?
<oimon> i wonder how many touchpads we would have seen if oggcamp was next weekend :D
<gord> *NO STEALING THE SUN*
 * MartijnVdS steals gord's thunder instead
 * brobostigon steals someones mental stability.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: What would you want with THAT?! )
<MartijnVdS> :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: enhancing my own. :)
<daubers> urgh
<daubers> I _hate_ samba
<BigRedS> daubers: I maintain that it's mostly there to piss people off
<popey> A parcel has arrived at work for me
<popey> i am not there
<popey> I said co-workers could open it. this may not have been wise
<rowinggolfer> popey, is it an invite for you to take over from Steve jobs.
<brobostigon> a new toy?
<popey> It must be
<oimon> is it a graze box?
<daubers> BigRedS: I'm trying to understand how to build a VFS module, can't get the blasted things to poxy build :(
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> popey: more of a demand I think :)
<diplo> gord, I failed last night on my plugin :(
<daubers> Even their "example" doesn't build
<diplo> But found some good documentation for debugging today
<davmor2> oimon: how's your tablet now?
<diplo> So v2 tonight
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: oggflu is the bug that a few people picked up from oggcamp
<oimon> davmor2: getting on OK.. played with it last night as i watched the footy
<diplo> Got to say xbmc wiki is very good, lots of good info
<oimon> very nice for reading books, pdf, and web browsing
<diplo> bigcalm, I used to go to Multiplay I Series events, we all used to get I Flu or some other variant whilst we were there
<oimon> i'm missing certain android apps, especially dedicated email
<davmor2> oimon: are you liking it a bit more now more to the point :)
<diplo> I found a fix
<diplo> Eat healthy whilst away and you don't suffer
<oimon> davmor2: yes :)
<oimon> the facebook app is amazing, have you seen the newspaper layout mode?
<popey> its a book
<popey> co-worker took a picture of it, I suspect he used word lens
<bigcalm> Spanish? :D
<popey> the title is "ODIDRA SCITOBOR"
<popey> no the free version
<bigcalm> Didn't know there was a free version
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Arduino-Robotics-John-David-Warren/dp/1430231831/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314266658&sr=8-1
<popey> i didnt order that
<popey> dunno why I have a copy on my des
<popey> +k
<oimon> check out the optional newspaper view of facebook http://ubuntuone.com/p/1Ck1/
<popey> thats quite cute
 * popey notes there is no facebook app for ipad
<oimon> orly?
<popey> YA RLY
<oimon> there's no g+ app or other google apps for TP /webos
<oimon> but the web browser works and the OS multitasks well so it's ok
<oimon> flash support is great
 * oimon thinks popey has a secret admirer
<dogmatic69> going through the TV setup menu the other day and noticed it was running linux :D
<dogmatic69> -> http://www.am-linux.jp/
<AlanBell> sky boxes run Linux too
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> yes.
<AlanBell> they did an over the air upgrade from BSD to Linux
<diplo> Busybox isn't it ?
 * daubers breaks down
<AlanBell> I would *not* like to be the person pressing the release button on that one
<daubers> So, I think no-one in the entire world knows how to make samba VFS modules anymore
<AlanBell> daubers: #samba-technical
<popey> oimon: thing is that it came to my work address
<oimon> they didn't want your wife to know :)
<oimon> robot love
<popey> :D
<popey> well, more, how did they know my work address
<daubers> AlanBell: The place questions go unanswered even if you ask 2 or three times a week
<AlanBell> oh :(
<daubers> AlanBell: #samba just point me there too
<daubers> I also have a feeling that debian/ubuntu are packaging up the wrong examples for the current samba release
<diplo> bigcalm, you are the one with the superhub aren't you ?
<popey> o/ and me
<bigcalm> diplo: I am one of the unfortunate, yes
<popey> haha
<diplo> VM Preps firmware update for Glitchy superhub post on the register
<bigcalm> Ooooo
<popey> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/25/virgin_media_superhub_update/
<diplo> Sorry didn't link, looking on my other machine
<diplo> There is a beta community.. maybe worth joining :)
<popey> I'd rather not :D
<bigcalm> Aye
<bigcalm> Things improved when the hub was replaced
<oimon> interesting post on gnome planet about echo cancellation in pulse audio http://arunraghavan.net/2011/08/hello-hello-hello/
<daubers> GAHHHH
<daubers> Finally found some useful docs, but the examples don't match up to what the docs are saying and bits of the docs talk about things that no longer exist
<directhex> AlanBell, i thought sky boxes ran vxworks
<AlanBell> some might, my sky+HD box is running Linux
<oimon> do they distribute source?
<directhex> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40369
<lubotu3> Freedesktop bug 40369 in New device "New devices - HP Pre 3, HP Touchpad" [Normal,New]
<directhex> oimon,  http://www1.sky.com/opensourcesoftware/SkyHD/opensourcesoftwaredownloads.html
<daubers> Does anyone know anyone on the samba project who actually gives a damn?
<AlanBell> they did a release 2 days ago so it is an active project
<AlanBell> http://samba.org/samba/history/samba-3.4.15.html
<dwatkins> Setting up samba was always a bit of a nightmare for me as there are so many possibilities.
<dwatkins> All I wanted was LDAP integration, but it wasn't easy.
<dwatkins> When I finally got it to work, NMB would end up randomly using 100% of cpu after a few days.
<directhex> well, emulating windows software is a recipe for fail
<directhex> (NOTE: THIS IS A JOKE)
<dwatkins> directhex: I appreciate your comment, yes
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<bigcalm> I </3 VM
<MartijnVdS> !ping boo
<oimon> ldap integration and samba works fine for me, we have it on multiple servers
<Chrisu> hi... Can anybody help me on 11.04 with the 5.1 surround? I can't make it work..:(
<MartijnVdS> Chrisu: how is your 5.1 system connected?
<MartijnVdS> Chrisu: HDMI, S/PDIF (digital), or several analog cables?
<Myrtti> Chrisu: crossposting on several channels is a bit boring
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Not everyone is on multiple channels though
<Chrisu> its a cable with 2 jacks black and yellow at one end (goes in the system) and at the other end is Jack like a headphone (goes in the PC)
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: no, but if you're given an advice X on channel Y and advice N on channel M, it gets difficult to follow and you might get contradicting advice
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: true
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: also, many people ARE on multiple channels
<MartijnVdS> Chrisu: sounds like you only have a single (stereo) analog cable then
<MartijnVdS> Chrisu: you won't get 5.1 out of that.
<Chrisu> It's ok guys... I just posted on multiple channels hoping that sombody wich is not on all channels that knows will help me.
<Chrisu> MartijnVdS: Oh... then what cable do I need? :-s
<MartijnVdS> Chrisu: several of those cables (one per 2 channels), or if your machine supports it: an optical cable or a coaxial ("s/pdif") cable
<Chrisu> well.. i only got slots for microphone jack, out and in.
<Chrisu> in my PC
<MartijnVdS> Chrisu: sometimes those switch to extra output ports if you select "analog surround" in the sound preferences screen
<MartijnVdS> Chrisu: but you'd have to read your PC (mainboard) manual to be sure
<Chrisu> umm.. ok well thanks alot...
<AlanBell> Chrisu: what makes you think your computer can output 5.1?
<Chrisu> Nothing. lol
<AlanBell> is there a sticker on it or something?
<MartijnVdS> Chrisu: if it has HDMI out, you could probably use that, if your system supports it
<Chrisu> I don't know if it can.
<AlanBell> ah :)
<Chrisu> I don't have a HDMI cable lol
<Chrisu> ok then.. no 5.1 for me xD
<AlanBell> probably not :(
<Chrisu> :(.. thanks guys
<daubers> lo
<Myrtti> oh shotwell, how I hate thee
<Myrtti> the damned thing reimported all 200 photos from OggCamp that I had removed from the library view because they were blurry and not up the scratch
<Myrtti> STUPID ARGHHHHH
<oimon> i struggle to find anything as good as picasa
<MartijnVdS> picasa is horrible with raw shots
<penguin42> but it's pretty damn good with everything else
<MartijnVdS> except I shoot in raw 99% of the time
<shauno> I really like adobe lightroom.  please don't hurt me.
<Myrtti> I don't like Picasa myself because I think that the online storage of Picasa is vastly inferior to Flickr.
<penguin42> latest version of digikam seems very difficult to use IMHO
<oimon> not sure why picasa was never open sourced
<daubers> oimon: Probably a library thing. Or a patent thing
<MartijnVdS> or a patent library thing
<MooDoo> i quite like picassa for backing up my raw images, but not for much else
<oimon> picasa has enough editing capability to tweak photos without requiring gimp etc. shotwell is lacking in this area
<MartijnVdS> I only tweak in ufraw anyway
<oimon> wow, kindle books are more Â£Â£ than you would pay 2nd hand
<MartijnVdS> oimon: some kindle books are more expensive than the paper versions
<oimon> obscene
<oimon> and dumb
<MartijnVdS> oimon: same problem as mp3s/music rights
<diplo> Piracy is rampant in ebooks alreadt
<diplo> already*
<oimon> however, it's easy to rip a cd, the only book ripping that i can do is to hand it to my 1 yr old child
<diplo> They have screwed themselve when they had the best idea of how to start
<diplo> oimon, loads of dedicated piracy sites for ebooks already
<diplo> I know someone who has 1000+ already
<oimon> i don't believe in pirating, i just want it to be fair
<diplo> He also owns a lot of the books he has
<diplo> He has replaced a lot of them for his ereader
<diplo> But won't buy ebooks because of the cost of them, still buys paper backs as well
<daubers> Need some eyeballsâ¦ mine are obviously too stressed to see something obvious
<daubers> can anyone see anything immediately wrong with this? http://pastebin.com/P9z48Zig getting the error "modules/matt_test.c:89:21: error: expected â=â, â,â, â;â, âasmâ or â__attribute__â before âmt_op_tupleâ"
<oimon> he's still breaking the law, however he justifies it though
<diplo> He knows that
<oimon> if piracy is already rife, paperback books should come with a one time link to download a personal copy
<diplo> Totally agree oimon, like movie people are putting a copy of a digital movie on dvd's / blurays now
<oimon> i bought a dvd and apparently it also has a 2nd disk for "digital copy", which is some drm nonsense that does't work on any device i own
<diplo> If people are going to pirate they will, but if they can get copies of stuff in digital as well why not
<diplo> lol, I've never tried any of mine
<oimon> so the dvd was a nice iea, but a complete fail
<diplo> I rip the dvd and re-encode myself
<oimon> the "digital copy" won't work on my android, touchpad or ubuntu
<diplo> They just dont get it do they.. or the games companies
<diplo> DRM etc doesn't stop anyone
<diplo> Just annoys the people who want to buy stuff
<diplo> I also never buy movies brand new, always wait a few months and get it a lot cheaper
<diplo> Or with music, I buy pre release to get cheap offers
<oimon> on another subject, box.net gave me 50GB free space with the TP :D
<diplo> Another thing that annoys me, bought Lissie album after seeing her at Hard Rock Calling, downloaded off amazon and noticed it was only 128k :/
<diplo> Blimey, nice
<diplo> A year subscription ?
<Myrtti> oimon: shotwell is still better than some photobrowsing apps tho
<oimon> Myrtti: agree, hope it continues to improve
<oimon> diplo: seems that it's permanent
<oimon> need confirmation of that thoug
<Myrtti> I'm on the verge of venting my soul to Flickr developers
<MartijnVdS> ?
<oimon> diplo: 50gb for life :D
<oimon> worth about $200 per year
<diplo> bloody hell, that's good!
<MartijnVdS> mind, 50GB won't be much in ~5 years
<gord> woot, got UI freeze out of the way :) just focusing on unity bugs and performance the rest of the cycle
<oimon> MartijnVdS: nor will the touchpad, but it's a great way of extending the storage and transferring files to the device
<shauno> hm, they finally came up with a patch for my dvdr bug; but I no longer have a drive installed.  wondering if I can be bothered get the screwdrivers out this weekend 'n see what it does :/
<oimon> daubers: saw your blog post. could be useful! e.g. for sending footie/cricket score updates
<oimon> or sending adapted "fortune" messages
<daubers> oimon: Oh, yeah :) There's some python api stuff for lib notify that would be a good place to start
<daubers> oimon: Was going to use it with matt for some stuffs
<oimon> do kindles read epub format?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: only after conversion
<DJones> oimon: I don't think so, I've looked into that because most of my books are in epub format, but I'm fairly sure it doesn'r read them
<oimon> wow, sucks
<DJones> oimon: You can convert them using calibre though
<oimon> is epub generally the best format to go for, for future proofing?
<directhex> pdf!
<oimon> reading pdf on a tablet is nice but they don't reflow when you zoom
<popey> txt
<directhex> jpg
<popey> tiff
<oimon> are you guys in the pub?
<popey> i wish
<Myrtti> "when helping, be helpful"
<popey> i would buy directhex a beer if I was.
<popey> haha
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] Flattr - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/08/flattr.html
<directhex> the ePub!
<popey> ISWYDT
<oimon> are there other authors like cory doctorow who release their books free and are worth reading?
<popey> yes, there's this dude who has made quite a few popular books
<popey> sh
<popey> shakey
<popey> something like that
<oimon> meh
<popey> William Shakespear!
<popey> thats it
<oimon> he's lame
<Laney> shakin stevens
<oimon> can't even write english properly
<oimon> my question refers to contemporary fiction
<davmor2> popey: Shakey  he sang behind the green door right?
<popey> You'd know mister 80's
<daubers> random C question of the day! If I have a pointer to a pointer to a struct, how can I access the members of the struct? so some_struct **x and I want to do x->y
<MartijnVdS> daubers: (*bar)->foo
<oimon> green door was a cover though
<daubers> MartijnVdS: ta
<davmor2> popey: I'm very proud of the fact that I enjoy music you can hear the lyrics of thank you very much :P
 * popey hands davmor2 an ear trumpet
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkXMEoGDLm4 made me smile
<davmor2> get off the grass, these young whipper snappers
<popey> but then I am nasty like that
<davmor2> popey: that's hilarious
<bigcalm> popey: that vid requires flash
<bigcalm> I thought you'd given up flash
<popey> on my own machines, yeah :D
<oimon> cmrtaco has resigned from slashdot
<popey> haha
<oimon> same day as jobs resigned from the legal company
<oimon> http://meta.slashdot.org/story/11/08/25/1245200/Rob-CmdrTaco-Malda-Resigns-From-Slashdot
<popey> i never read /. these days
<popey> haven't for years
<oimon> when i scan my twitter feed, i discover that the only links i've clicked are /. stories
<oimon> some guys on #touchpad have been to best buy (in the US) today and got touchpads. maybe more for the UK?
<BigRedS> yeah, I hardly ever actually visit the /. frontpage itself, but hit most of the links on their twitter feed
<Hippychick> urgh! looking in my bag and i cant find any usb sticks... all k can find are 3g dongles!
 * daubers makes moar coffee
 * oimon has 4 usb sticks in his pocket
<dwatkins> thanks for reminding me, oimon - I need to check out what's on my 8 GB stick.
<daubers> woot, someones found the patch set that changed vast amounts of the samba vfs stuff and, importantly, the patches didn't changes the docs :(
<oimon> btw how do i relabel a disk that gets mounted as /media/12394090i3902=1-30=1-230
<MartijnVdS> oimon: using the disk utility (palimpsest) is easiest
<oimon> thanks MartijnVdS
<oimon> that was easy
<AlanBell> palimpsest has the silliest name of any application
<AlanBell> considerably sillier than the gimp
<MartijnVdS> "A palimpsest is a manuscript page from a scroll or book from which the text has been scraped off and which can be used again"
<MartijnVdS> you could argue hard disks work like that ;)
<oimon> i call it pal-tab
<oimon> baobab is another bad name,
<MartijnVdS> vinagre, vino
<AlanBell> baobab reminds me of the little prince
<davmor2> Mez: I don't think I'm going to be able to make it tonight at least not before everything is over :(  A bunch are looking to come from the northampton group though I brought it up there for you too :)  I hope it all goes well for you :)
<kirrus> Special: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiySKuVs2fI
 * AlanBell stares in astonishment at bug 764905
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 764905 in unity "Drag and drop a USB key into the trash should eject the USB key" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764905
<Hippychick> oh dear AlanBell
<gord> AlanBell, user testing is always enlightening :)
<AlanBell> I think that user failed the test
<gord> well thats kinda the fun thing, we ain't testing the users, they are testing the design
<AlanBell> yeah, I get that. Just wish they had time to sober up first.
<gord> well you say that now, but when your drunk and using your computer in the future, you'll be a genius
<AlanBell> I am pretty astonished that the applications lens got through user testing
<gord> people do pretty well with it, everyone knows google so they put what they were after into the search box and there it is
<BigRedS> Well, and there it might be
<AlanBell> if you type it then yes
<BigRedS> Pointedly, google never silently fails...
<diplo> popey, is this the Microserver you have ?
<diplo> http://www.ebuyer.com/253305-hp-proliant-athlon-ii-neo-n36l-microserver-100-cashback-633724-421
<popey> AlanBell: bug 765905 is quite fun isnt it.
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 765905 in writerperfect (Ubuntu Oneiric) "writerperfect version 0.8.0-1 failed to build on i386" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/765905
<popey> yes diplo
<popey> df
<AlanBell> if I want to see what applications I have got for working with graphics then no
<popey> not that bug
<diplo> Cool, new Credit card turned up so ordering now
<diplo> :)
<AlanBell> gord: so what I want is a lens that shows me *all* the applications I have, grouped by category
<BigRedS> AlanBell: like a menu? :)
<AlanBell> like the gnome menu does
<popey> heh
<popey> beat me to it
<diplo> http://www.ebuyer.com/search?page=1&store=33&cat=392&filterca76=2000  <-- Any recommendations people ? Going to be a NAS predominantly, quiet would be good
<BigRedS> Menus are soooo last century
<AlanBell> that is all I want
<BigRedS> nobody's doing that any more
<AlanBell> gord: would I be best off waiting for that to happen or writing a new lens to do it?
<davmor2> AlanBell: Click on application lens and select the group from the drop down?
<popey> diplo: how many you buying?
<diplo> 2
<popey> buy two different ones :D
<AlanBell> davmor2: that kind of works (but not in unity 2d right now) however it shows me for example 4 of the 10 accessories I have installed, plus 4 random apps from the app store that I don't have
<gord> AlanBell, in O you'll be able to open the applications lens and then filter by category, thats as close as you're going to get in stock unity
<diplo> At the mo anyhoo, don't want to outspend myself
<diplo> Comes with a 250gb i think
<gord> AlanBell, but writing a lens to do precisely what you want is fine too, writing lenses is easy and open source :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: hmm true
<diplo> Did you see the need to upgrade the ram popey ? Or was it sufficient as a nas with 1gb ?
<AlanBell> gord: ok, I will go down that route, all the code is there in the applications lens but in the wrong order
<AlanBell> and it is in something called vala
<Myrtti> popey: are you running Windows or Ubuntu on that little proliant?
<popey> ETOOMANYQUESTIONS
<popey> yes, doubled the RAM
<popey> Ubuntu server on it
<diplo> Sorry matey :)
<popey> the hp comes with a 160GB disk
<popey> well, mine did
<seeker> popey: Where do babies come from?
<popey> seeker: storks
<davmor2> gord: you're using oneiric right what happens if you select games from the applications refined search I get nothing show up at all
<seeker> \o/
<popey> diplo: i moved the drive that came with it to the optical bay in the top, so I have 4 bays for big disks
<Myrtti> popey: I suppose the raid is "not to be used" if you've got Ubuntu on it
<popey> Myrtti: i use md radi
<popey> *raid
<diplo> Good thinking
<gord> davmor2, no idea, i broke my setup earlier :)
<AlanBell> davmor2: type something, then delete what you typed
<gord> davmor2, so i get no results from anything
<davmor2> AlanBell: No all the other groups show something only games that don't
<AlanBell> davmor2: oh, me too
<davmor2> gord: type m in the main application menu and then delete it when everything shows up
<gord> davmor2, no no, i broke everything
<gord> nothing will work
<davmor2> gord: vandal was you out with them rioters?
<gord> davmor2, i riot quietly in my pc
<gord> on another topic, why does samba hate me?
<davmor2> gord: for the same reason it hates everyone else?
<gord> won't let me modify anything :(
<BigRedS> rioting quietly?
<ikonia-remote> would someone be a gent and see if http://www.disc-tools.com/download/daemon downloads correclt (10mb) I seem to get about 600kb and then the download drops
<BigRedS> that's almost as quaint as getting up the morning after a riot for a tidy up
<ikonia-remote> not sure if it's the connection/isp I'm using while away or the hosted site
<popey> fine here ikonia-remote
<gord> fine also here
<ikonia-remote> popey: rats, it pulled down the whole 10mb
<ikonia-remote> it must  be my isp causing a problem
<ikonia-remote> stupid 3rd world internet
<ikonia-remote> it just let me pll down a 700mb file from a different site, but won't let me pull down this 10mb file
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/DTLite4413-0173.exe  try that
<ikonia-remote> that's going better.....
<ikonia-remote> nope, crapped out at 3.89 meg
<jpds> Exploit detected.
<ikonia-remote> ahhh yes, it's listing it as an exploit file
<ikonia-remote> popey: could you change it to something not.exe ?
<ikonia-remote> (if your willing to test)
<popey> .txt now
<ikonia-remote> ok, let me try that
<diplo> Anyone got any idea to work out what revo model this is ?
<diplo> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/161260
<ikonia-remote> for the love of god windows....
<ikonia-remote> popey: that looks like it will work, but can you chang it to .popey or something as .txt my browser trys to open it as text
<ikonia-remote> change it to something the browser won't try to associate with an application
<ikonia-remote> .smeg
<ikonia-remote> popey: plus, super keep putting the ubuntu favicon on your site
 * BigRedS just had an I-told-you-so moment about our non-snmp coffee machine
<ikonia-remote> "geek"
<kirrus> Does anyone know of an SNMP enabled coffee filter machine?
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/DTLite4413-0173.this.is.for.ikonia.ha.ha.ha.stupid.internet
<ikonia-remote> popey: bravo
<ikonia-remote> popey: it would appear the multiple extensions has fooled whatever tool was.....
<ikonia-remote> nope, it filed at 4 meg
<ikonia-remote> failed
<popey> you suck
<ikonia-remote> this is mental
<ikonia-remote> popey: this 3rd world insulting random internet sucks
<ikonia-remote> it likes a 700 mb file - no problem, it doens't like a 10mb file
<ikonia-remote> popey: appreciate the effort
<popey> DTLite4413-0173.this.is.for.ikonia.ha.ha.ha.stupid.internet.tgz
<popey> try that?
<Azelphur> best filename ever
<popey> :D
<ikonia-remote> popey: it's scanning the content
<popey> "it" being?
<ikonia-remote> it takes 3.5 - 4mb to work it out then thinks it's an exploit
<ikonia-remote> popey: I don't know
<ikonia-remote> whatever is cutting me off
<ikonia-remote> I'm assuming some sort of proxy thing
<popey> want me to put it in a passworded zip so it can't?
<BigRedS> base64 it and save it as a txt file
<BigRedS> ?
<AlanBell> ikonia-remote: could it be right?
<ikonia-remote> popey: please, that's worth a try
<ikonia-remote> AlanBell: possible, but doubtful
<gord> daemon tools trips up anti-virus stuff all the time
<popey> ikonia-remote: http://popey.com/~public_html/ikonia.zip
<popey> password is your nickname
<popey> (no, not stupid_head, ikonia)
<ikonia-remote> ha
<jpds> Needs more HTTPS.
<ikonia-remote> 404 on url
<BigRedS> i think there's supposed to be a popey instead of public_html
<kirrus> jpds, what is it with you and HTTPS? :P
<popey> doh
<ikonia-remote> ha ha, good eyes
<popey> ikonia-remote: http://popey.com/~alan/ikonia.zip
<popey> jpds: can't do https, using 443 for ssh :D
<jpds> popey: So use 22 for HTTPS.
<Myrtti> genious!
<ikonia-remote> popey: worked like a charm, thank you
<popey> np
 * popey deletes all the malware
<ikonia-remote> appreciated
<ikonia-remote> tough working over here when you need a something and the random internet fails you
<ikonia-remote> I am so immature it's untrue, I'm working with a French chap and an Israeli chap, they are discussing an excel spread sheet and each time either of them say sheet.....it comes out rather ammusing
<ikonia-remote> I keep sniggering under my breath,, don't want to offend them but it is ammusing me
<ikonia-remote> "can you give me the sheet" and comments like that are making me laugh
<jpds> ikonia-remote: Just don't say the Polish for thank you to the French guy.
<ikonia-remote> jpds: I do not know polish
<ikonia-remote> he is safe
<jpds> Good.
<AlanBell> so how do I build a lens then? the HACKING file in unity-lens-applications is empty and ./autogen.sh tells me I need gnome-common from gnome SVN. Do I really need that?
<davmor2> AlanBell: goto unity.ubuntu.com I'm pretty sure there are some well written docs linked from there but I could be wrong
<AlanBell> I read a lot of that, it assumes a certain amount of prior knowledge
<AlanBell> there does not seem to be anything telling you how to build a lens or insert your new lens into a running unity
<AlanBell> ooh, canonical just sent me an ebook
<Azelphur> If I'm trying to run 8 CPU Hungry single threaded applications, do I want an i7 with hyperthreading or 2 Q9xxx's?
<popey> they didnt send me one
<AlanBell> https://pages.canonical.com/enterprise-desktop-ebook.html
<popey> they sent me a link where I can find out how to download it
<AlanBell> oh, it is a PDF
 * popey gets the pdf url from the source rather than submit stuff
<davmor2> AlanBell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses I don't know if this helps I got it from askubuntu
<popey> AntiVirus is apparenly included with Ubuntu
<popey> and backup software
<popey> is that "tar" ?
<ikonia-remote> popey: that line really annoys me in the marketing
<davmor2> popey: there is already a bug about that
<AlanBell> isn't windows multi browser choice these days?
<popey> davmor2: no, there isnt
<popey> davmor2: this is a marketing PDF
<Myrtti> popey: curse you and your licorice
<AlanBell> there is a bug about it claiming to be fully compatible with microsoft office
<davmor2> popey: ah sorry not the bug is against the web page that is taken from the pdf I think you're right
<popey> Myrtti: me and my kids licorice :D
 * oimon wants liquorice
<Myrtti> popey: dsample is a bit annoyed now, he wants candy but all I have to offer is Turkish Peber
<oimon> since removing fabian the german from my feed, google+ is looking bare again!
 * popey googles
<popey> heh, i removed him long ago oimon :D
<oimon> i added him for oggcamp. too much opinion and swearing
<popey> yeah
<oimon> is that what his podcast is like?
<bigcalm> Which is why I never got into LO
<popey> pretty much
 * oimon munches on a stem ginger cookie ponderously
<AlanBell> I listened to an episode, it was very strange
<popey> i sometimes listen live
<oimon> if i remove popey from g+ then it will be VERY empty
<popey> and heckle in irc
<bigcalm> G+ has become quiet recently
<bigcalm> I think more people are making use of circles
<popey> i am not using circles at all
<oimon> or maybe everyones playing with their touchpad
<bigcalm> And I'm not in those circles that are getting the content
<diplo> Well thats the server ordered.., most i have spent on myself in 2-3 years!
<bigcalm> popey: I've put people into circles just to organise things, but then I post everything as public
<oimon> i wanted to add linus torvalds but he mixes linux stuff with pcitures of his scuba diving gear
<popey> me too
<AlanBell> I thought circles were a great idea, but I post almost everything public
<Myrtti> I love Google+
<Myrtti> it's brilliant with the circles
<oimon> i had AlanBell but removed him too lol
<bigcalm> G+ is great for poking fun at friends ;)
<Myrtti> my paranoia about stalkers is a bit lessened when I use Google+ in comparison to Twitter and the ilk
<oimon> it needs refining
<oimon> Myrtti: u have stalkers, or just worried about them?
<bigcalm> oimon: if you're publicly a lady on IRC, I think it's compulsory
<oly_> I like google plus but it needs some kind of events planner built in
<Myrtti> oimon: I have had a person who told me he was coming to meet me, and after that I was afraid of people of certain group in the local bus for about a month
<oimon> hmm
<jpds> oly_: Google Calendar?
<Myrtti> I've also had death threats from others
<oimon> there is a certain class of person who feels too attached to people that share information on broadcast networks
<oly_> jpds, perhaps but integrated like in facebook you just go create event and add friends
<oimon> a close friend had a lot of unwatned attention from creepy guys because she was quite open
<oimon> irl , not online
<oly_> very handy feature and about the only thing i use facebook for :)
<AlanBell> G+ is potentially a bit stalker friendly with the circles
<Myrtti> oimon: well I am fairly known in Finland in a multiple ways, so I'm an easy target, sadly
<BigRedS> Whoo! Aqua again!
<Myrtti> meh, now I've had too much salmiakki
<kirrus> BigRedS, your liking of this is quite... interesting...
<bigcalm> Myrtti: give it to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<BigRedS> kirrus: it's worth noting that this is B*witched that I'm liking, not Aqua
<BigRedS> honest
<oimon> what's worse? b*w i think
<kirrus> BigRedS, and that makes it better how, exactly? ;) :P
<bigcalm> I think I'm going to pass out from blowing my nose
<Myrtti> interesting
<Myrtti> learn something new every day: "last"
<seeker> bigcalm: Got a cold too?
<bigcalm> seeker: it's the oggflu
<munkyjunky> Heyhey! I'm trying to get Ubuntu 11.04 onto an Acer Aspire One netbook, via USB, and it keeps giving a blank screen after the 'loading linux' screen. Tried the USB on a laptop and it works fine. Anyone got ay guesses as to what may be the issue?
<bigcalm> Myrtti: what a have you learnt about last?
<seeker> Ah, I have a cold, but not oggflu
<oimon> lastlog is also useful
<oimon> on a machine with many potential users logging in
<Myrtti> bigcalm: it's a funky command!
<bigcalm> Myrtti: indeed it is. I tend to do last -20 every time I log onto a remote system
<Myrtti> I can tell you that doing "last" on my shell account wasn't a good idea, tho :-D
<Myrtti> "oops"
<bigcalm> Heh
<livingdaylight> greetings
<MartijnVdS> \o livingdaylight
<livingdaylight> o/ MartijnVdS !
<bigcalm> Grrr, the 'net is terribly slow to make connections today
 * bigcalm shakes fist at VM
<MartijnVdS> what? no updates in oneiric today?
<MartijnVdS> What happen?
<davmor2> Freeze for beat 1 next week
<MartijnVdS> ah
<davmor2> beta even
<MartijnVdS> I'd expect more bugfix uploads then ;)
<MartijnVdS> Lots of apps still complain about GConf dbus messages not existing
<MartijnVdS> D-BUS error: Method "Set" with signature "s(ib)" on interface "org.gnome.GConf.Database" doesn't exist
<MartijnVdS> stuff like that
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: tht stuff should still exist
<MartijnVdS> apparently, it doesn't, sometimes
<ikonia-remote> well it either exists or it doesn't, the connection or how it connects maybe the problem
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: I'm starting programs from the command line, so I can see what errors they throw
<MartijnVdS> starting "picard" crashes unity-window-decorator \o/
<MartijnVdS> vlc as well, sometimes
<MartijnVdS> I'm going to reboot, just in case (this feels dirty)
<MartijnVdS> Argh! Where did "Reboot" go in my menu?>
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: that's not always going to be a valid test
<ikonia-remote> not all programs will output to the command line, it depends
<ikonia-remote> don't take that as gospal
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: I know
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: but if it outputs an error, it should either catch that or fix it ;)
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: it happens just before banshee crashes, too
<MartijnVdS> also sound-juicer
<MartijnVdS> WARN  2011-08-25 18:25:54 glib <unknown>:0 Unable to fetch children: Method "Children" with signature "" on interface "org.ayatana.bamf.view" doesn't exist
 * bigcalm continues to shake his fist at VM
<HazRPG> anyone heard about the new IBM "brain" chip? The one that's meant to replicate the human brain...
<HazRPG> http://venturebeat.com/2011/08/17/ibm-cognitive-computing-chips/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: itym http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_(Terminator)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, I knew someone would like to that :P
<HazRPG> link*
<HazRPG> just realised I typed that wrong, was too busy watching the videos at the bottom of the link I sent
<ikonia-remote> should the nvidia package create a base xorg.conf with base nvidia settings in it ?
<MartijnVdS> No idea
<ikonia-remote> I don't have a machine to test it on,
<popey> no
<popey> nvidia-xconfig does that
<ikonia-remote> ok, I think I'm going to put that into the package then and put it in as an update
<popey> or jockey
<ikonia-remote> jockey won't do it will it ?
<ikonia-remote> I thought only nvidia-xconfig did it
<popey> i have a feeling it does
<popey> but maybe not :D
<ikonia-remote> I'll check that out before rushing in then as I had no idea it could do that
<Psychobudgie> anyone got any idea why thunderbird won't show an icon on the unity launcher when launched
<ikonia-remote> there seems to be quite a few bugs with applications that are not the system default
<Psychobudgie> other than unity being a bug ridden mess
<ikonia-remote> in terms of displaying on the icon
<Psychobudgie> which it is
<Psychobudgie> that'll teach me to be proactive thought I would migrate to thunderbird from evolution in lieu of Ocelot and that happens
<popey> you can keep evolution in ocelot of course
<popey> its only the default
<ikonia-remote> has evolution been dropped as default in 11.10 ?
<popey> apparently so
<Psychobudgie> you can, but thunderbird is the new default in ocelot
<Psychobudgie> the way unity currently handles non-default apps doesn't exactly fill me full of hope for ocelot
<ikonia-remote> I'm glad Thunderbird has been adopted
<Psychobudgie> I'm not
<ikonia-remote> I just wish someone could get Thunderbird and Sunbird to make an Outlook style client, that could deal with meeting requests and calander sync/planning
<Psychobudgie> it has issues with large quantities of mail
<ikonia-remote> I know there is the sunbird plugin, but it sucks
<ikonia-remote> Psychobudgie: define large
<Psychobudgie> and it has a distinct lack of a calendar
<Psychobudgie> large as in corporate large
<ikonia-remote> define large
<ikonia-remote> I use thunderbird in a corperate enviornment
<Psychobudgie> as in the application tends to go into meltdown when it gets over 10000 or so messages to archive
<Psychobudgie> so did I
<ikonia-remote> the lack of calander is really annoying, and sunbird is really good, so it would be amazing to merge them, or have some sort of interface between them
<ikonia-remote> 10,000 active messages is quite a lot, archived not massive
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: like lightning?
<ikonia-remote> the two standalone applications are great, but they are totally not aware of each other
<Psychobudgie> I think moving to thunderbird is a mistake personally
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/lightning/
<ikonia-remote> I started a small project based on a brainstorm post I made on this idea, but it never got traction
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: it's sunbird as a tb plugin
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: I know what it is
<ikonia-remote> MartijnVdS: it's not great
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote: it works..ish
<Psychobudgie> I trust there will be a migration tool for people to easily move from evolution to thunderbird </irony>
<Psychobudgie> darn it, I meant to use the sarcasm module
<HazRPG> also, wow Steve Jobs is stepping down as CEO
<popey> heh
<popey> welcome to 18 hours ago âº
<ikonia-remote> darn connection
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - look at the inc VAT vs ex. VAT price ;-) http://www8.hp.com/uk/en/products/tablets/product-detail.html?oid=5107123
<matti> ;]
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: if only we really did have -400% VAT :D
<Azelphur> or whatever that VAT calculation is :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> That is +470% VAT :-(
<munkyjunky> Having issues installing 11.04 - install says its first 'Loading Linux' line, then stops, leaving blank screen with a cursor flashing. Help, anyone?
<TheOpenSourcerer> roghly
<Azelphur> hehe
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/news/2011/DiamondPlanet/ - Cool. A planet with slightly more mass than jupiter made of diamond.
<Azelphur> suddenly the private space race gets more interesting
<Azelphur> :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Trouble is it is orbitting a pulsar at stupidly fast speeds... Hard to catch it.
<Azelphur> hehe
<penguin42> that's going to need one hell of a ring to mount it on
<popey> {
<MartijnVdS> }
<popey> :D wondered who would crack
<MartijnVdS> popey: It messes with my CDO :)
<ikonia-remote> directhex: I've just been told that Pepsi Raw (called Pepsi Natural) was dropped from Brazil shortly before my arival. Redbull Cola never made it to Brazil
<directhex> ikonia-remote: it's personal.
<ikonia-remote> clearly
<popey> ikonia-remote: you're in brazil?
<directhex> my local tesco is clearing its stock of red bull cola
<ikonia-remote> although I did find a nice Pepsi Twist (Pepsi + lime) but it's standard pepsi
<ikonia-remote> popey: yes,
<popey> nice, how come? work?
<ikonia-remote> hence "ikonia-remote" and unidenfitied
<ikonia-remote> popey: yes, a bit of client smoozing, hence the drama with the file earlier
<popey> nice
<popey> having a good time?
<ikonia-remote> it's ok
<ikonia-remote> %50/%50 to be honest, I'll get into it more tomorrow and do stuff at the weekend
<ikonia-remote> I'm sure it will go more to %20/%80 in Rio's favour
<ikonia-remote> directhex: please pickup as much redbull cola and I'll split %50 with you
<ikonia-remote> my Tesco cleared it off about 2 days after your announcment
<ikonia-remote> I had high hopes of bringing Pepsi Raw home with me and sending you random pictures
<directhex> i've got 4 cans left
<directhex> it's good with a decent rum
<ikonia-remote> I've got 2 bottles that I found
<ikonia-remote> I've just read that Feb 2011 Oz got Pepsi Raw, imported from the UK
<ikonia-remote> they have my COLA !!!!
<ikonia-remote> good job I'll be going to Oz for work in October
<ikonia-remote> I'm bored,
<directhex> heh
<directhex> clearly you need more games
<ikonia-remote> a friend in the UK up;loaded Armada II for me last night,
<ikonia-remote> so I pulled that down this morning, that will keep me sane tonight, then I'm going to sample Rio properly tomorrow
<ikonia-remote> I'm limited as to what I can play with this laptop
<ikonia-remote> it's a good laptop, but still......it's a laptop
<directhex> steam is great if you're stuck in a hotel with internet access
<directhex> i find the civilization series is laptop-friendly
<ikonia-remote> yeah, I should look at putting steam on this, and I do enjoy civilization too
<ikonia-remote> I've grabbed Age of Empires II from my machine at home as that was still in my home dir,
<ikonia-remote_> damn 3rd world internet connetion
<popey> ikonia-remote: google+ games :D
<MartijnVdS> I have Civ:Call to Power for LInux
<MartijnVdS> Working on oneiric with minimal hackage
<ikonia-remote_> gaming on Linux is poor.....
<ikonia-remote> I should have packed an emmulator and re-lived some C64 or Amiga fun, that would pass a few hours
<MartijnVdS> dosbox + abandonware :)
<DeadEnd> BBC are demanding I pay for TV licence for my mobile phone :
<ikonia-remote> DeadEnd: really ?
<ikonia-remote> I turn my back for a few days and the BBC goes mental ?
<popey> if you watch near-live TV then yeah, you should pay for a license
<DeadEnd> Yup they putting me under investigation
<popey> also, its not the BBC that are demanding it
<popey> its the TV Licensing authority
 * MartijnVdS turns on his sat receiver and whistles innocently
<ikonia-remote> popey: that's not unreasonable, if you use the BBC services, radio/tv/internet, you pay
<popey> exactly
<MartijnVdS> I'd pay, but I can't supply an address outside the UK :)
<DeadEnd> Buut I dont !!!
<MartijnVdS> so.. thanks everyone for paying ;)
<ikonia-remote> DeadEnd: you don't use any BBC services at all
<DeadEnd> That why I am under investigation
<DeadEnd> nope dont watch the bbc
<ikonia-remote> do you use the website/radio ?
<popey> it doesnt apply to just bbc
<DeadEnd> Nope boring as hell me
<popey> even if you only watched Channel 4
<ikonia-remote> popey: ahh, that's the catch isn't it, there is wording to prevent that sort of agrument
<ikonia-remote> it's a "multimedia tax" in reality, that gets given to the BBC
<popey> nope
<popey> other broadcasters get some
<popey> not just bbc
<MartijnVdS> \o/ ##politics-uk?
<popey> heh
<ikonia-remote> popey: it's cut up quite poor though
<ikonia-remote> there was a documentary on this last year
<ikonia-remote> Channel 4 was used as one of the hard hit cases as I recal
<ikonia-remote> I don't mind paying it, I think the free to air services in the UK are pretty good and the BBC as an overall service mega
<ikonia-remote> puts other countries to shame
<MartijnVdS> BBC is amazing, I'm glad I can receive the free-to-air satellite broadcasts here in the Netherlands :)
<ikonia-remote> watching TV in Brazil hilights how far ahead we are
<MartijnVdS> still need to figure out some "PC-as-video_recorder" software, so I can record programs
<MartijnVdS> (but that doesn't take over all of the system, like myth or vdr)
<popey> ikonia-remote: why dont you ssh to a remote host and run irssi?
<ikonia-remote-> watching TV in Brazil makes me realise how ahead we are. It's like watching a slightly out of tune TV, with the contrast up full, and the bass control on the TV broke
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote-: ah, like Italy
<ikonia-remote-> without pornography though
<ikonia-remote-> so similar
<MartijnVdS> ikonia-remote-: ask daubers about BBC engineers some time :)
<ikonia-remote-> I shall
<ikonia-remote-> one of my clients is the BBC so I may ask some direct
<ikonia-remote-> DeadEnd: what media services do you actually use/watch if you don't mind me asking
<DeadEnd> listen to  Podcasts mainly and mostly music
<ikonia-remote-> do you watch no TV services, even on the computer ?
<DeadEnd> If I do watch any visual stuff it is on youtube
<ikonia-remote-> DeadEnd: if that's %100 accurate, you are a rare breed in my eyes, but maybe times are changing
<Lcawte> Who did the talk on community week or whatever it was called on starting a podcast?
<DeadEnd> Are the TV people going to come round and look through my phone records
<DeadEnd> force me to give them my password to my laptop
<DeadEnd> Then imprison me
<ali1234> they will send a guy around
<ali1234> and basically if you don't have a TV switched on and watching TV they won't do anything more
<DeadEnd> I have had them round before, I have a large flat screen TV but I only use it as a monitor, they accepted my argument
<ali1234> yes, they do
<ali1234> if you are nice to the guy then they pretty much won't do anything
<ikonia-remote-> they wil start to push more though
<ali1234> they are not supposed to send them more than every 5 years or something
<ikonia-remote-> they can request things like ISP logs
<ikonia-remote-> DeadEnd: do you live alone ?
<DeadEnd> Last visit was 3 years ago
<DeadEnd> I live alone
<ali1234> btw the license fee only applies to live streaming, not iplayer or the rest of the website
<ikonia-remote-> the license does apply to the iplayer
<DeadEnd> Well there is no way I can get digital TV on mobile phone
<ali1234> no, it doesn't
<ali1234> it only applies to the "watch live" section, which has a big disclaimer
<ikonia-remote-> ali1234: where is the info, the last time I checked this the iplayer was incluced, or so I believed
<popey> ikonia-remote-: nope
<ikonia-remote-> (I'm having a search now too)
<ali1234> "You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the same  time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the Channel  Islands. " - from tvlicensing.co.uk
<popey> ikonia-remote-: only live or near-live requires a license
<ikonia-remote-> popey: that's super value then
<ikonia-remote-> popey: I thought it included radio use too
<popey> you dont need a license for radio
<DeadEnd> I am looking at my letter from the BBC and it clearly states mobile phone,,,,so how many mobile phone have a digital tuner?
<popey> DeadEnd: doesnt need one
<popey> DeadEnd: if you watch live telly on it you need a license
<popey> which you could watch over the internet
<ikonia-remote-> popey: that's even more impressive value then
<ali1234> yep, same for mobile
<ali1234> http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/
<DeadEnd> So I can record live TV and watch it later without a licence?
<ali1234> no
<popey> nope
<DeadEnd> I am not watching it live
<ali1234> watching or recording live tv is covered
<ikonia-remote-> ali1234: excellent, thank you for that link
<ali1234> ikonia-remote-: this topic comes up fairly regularly :)
<ali1234> along with the "ripping cd to mp3 is illegal" topic
<ali1234> btw, what's the deal with that?
<ikonia-remote-> ali1234: you are well prepared then
<ali1234> has the law actually changed, or was it just a promise to change it at some unspecified later date?
<popey> not yet
<popey> still illegal to rip your own cd/dvd
<popey> under review
<ikonia-remote-> wasn't it on the house of lords agenda before the summer break
<jpds> ikonia-remote-: summer break... http://tinyurl.com/3bnshc5
<ikonia-remote-> .............waiting for it to load in 3rd world hamster driven internet
<popey> i wouldn't bother
<brobostigon> question, pisg isnt updating channel activity at all, when run. i have checked the paths, and it is all correct. any other factors that could affect it not picking up on activity properly?
<ali1234> what's a pisg?
<bigcalm> !pisg
<bigcalm> lubotu3 doesn't know
<popey> a script to generate irc stats
<popey> http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/ like that
<bigcalm> http://pisg.sourceforge.net/
<ali1234> ok. wrong log format?
<brobostigon> http://taylorworld.me.uk/ircstats.html
<brobostigon> i have it set to irssi, as i am using irssi, and pointed at irssi's log file.
<popey> hehe, busy channel!
<popey> i dont use irssi logs for pisg, i use muh
<brobostigon> popey: it clearly isnt picking up on things, i said something in there just now, and it isnt showing it.
<popey> why would it show it right away?
<popey> surely you have to re-run the bot
<brobostigon> popey: i have the update, set to run in crontab, and i just updated it manually.
<brobostigon> 0 */3 * * * root /usr/bin/pisg -co /etc/pisg.cfg
<ali1234> i would suggest you look in the source code but if it is written perl that would probably be counter-productive
<brobostigon> http://pastebin.com/dVMSHxCn
<popey> I'd run it manually
<popey> see what output you get
<brobostigon> popey: i just did, made no difference.
<brobostigon> one moment.
<ali1234> ah
<ali1234> check permissions on /var/www/ircstats.html
<ali1234> maybe you can create but not update due to some strange umask thing
<brobostigon> http://pastie.org/2429702
<brobostigon> it isnt showing any issues.
<ali1234> so did "68 days, 628 lines total" change?
<j0nr> hi folks... wondering if someone can help.... I have an issue with the clock on my vps
<j0nr> its running madly fast, like gaining hours every second
<brobostigon> ali1234: no, i manually updated it again.
<popey> j0nr: what changed?
<popey> brobostigon: wc -l  /home/ptaylor/irclogs/Freenode/##politics-uk.log
<popey> j0nr: who hosts the vps?
<ikonia-remote-> j0nr: what version
<ikonia-remote-> j0nr: 2.6.18 kernels anre earlier have a big glitch with virtual clocks
<brobostigon> popey: 1266 /home/ptaylor/irclogs/Freenode/##politics-uk.log
<j0nr> popey: I had to reboot my vps since then it is not running right (no idea why)
<ikonia-remote-> j0nr: manually set the date with ntpdate - then setup ntpd to keep it in sync, it may need to run quite frequent depending on your kernel version
<ikonia-remote-> j0nr: you can't just use ntp if your clock is more than 5 minutes drift, it will need to be manualy syncd
<j0nr> ikonia-remote-: I have tried installing apt-get -y install linux-image-2.6.24-29-xen linux-headers-2.6.24-29-xen
<ikonia-remote-> j0nr: you shouldn't need to do that
<ikonia-remote-> j0nr: set the date from a remote time source with ntpdate, then use that same remote time source to keep it in sync with ntp
<j0nr> ikonia-remote-: ntpdate will not work for some reason. I guess it is because the clock it adrift. if I set the date/time first with 'date <string>' it changes within seconds to another day...so I dont get a chance to run ntpdate
<ikonia-remote-> j0nr: what command are you doing and what error are you getting back
<j0nr> ikonia-remote-: ntpdate ntp.ubuntu.com
<popey> j0nr: who hosts your vps?
<ikonia-remote-> j0nr: see to popey then give me the error message
<j0nr> 25 Aug 21:21:16 ntpdate[2178]: no server suitable for synchronization found
<j0nr> popey: xenvz.co.uk
<ikonia-remote-> j0nr: that's the issue then
<brobostigon> any ideas? everything looks right, other than it not seeing all the lines in the log.
<ikonia-remote-> j0nr: it can't reach ntp.ubuntu.com on the correct port
<j0nr> ikonia-remote-: what does that mean? I did also install ntpd but I stopped it
<ikonia-remote-> j0nr: ntp.ubuntu.com doesn't appear to be a valid host
<j0nr> also I had to echo 1 into /proc/sys/xen/independant_clock to allow me to override the parent machine (I think)
<j0nr> ikonia-remote-: I also tried pool.ntp.org
<ikonia-remote-> Joeb454: my remote dns isn't spot on at ht emoment,
<ikonia-remote-> j0nr: your uk based yes ?
<j0nr> ikonia-remote-: yes
<j0nr> I can understand getting the time synced, but why is it racing away at a rate of hours per second?
<ikonia-remote> j0nr: is your server uk based ?
<popey> I'd contact the vendor
<j0nr> popey: their suggeston is to install 'official ubuntu kernel'
<popey> what kernel are you currently using?
<j0nr> which I find strange I should have to do
<popey> 2.6.32-316-ec2
<j0nr> especially afterI have been using this setup for years
<popey> thats what I'm running on my Xen VPS
<ikonia-remote> j0nr: is the server uk based ?
<j0nr> popey: 2.6.18-238.19.1.el5xen
<popey> j0nr: yes
<popey> thats old old old
<popey> why are you using that?
<j0nr> i dont know.. I have done apt-get install later one
<popey> is it running ubuntu 10.04?
<j0nr> oh...no 8.04
<ikonia-remote> j0nr: is the server uk based ?
<j0nr> ikonia-remote: ummm.... not sure if the machine is in the UK.... anyway to find out?
<ikonia-remote> j0nr: don't worry, just run this test "sudo ntpdate 0.uk.poo.ntp.org"
<ikonia-remote> j0nr: don't worry, just run this test "sudo ntpdate 0.uk.pool.ntp.org"
<ikonia-remote> (note the missing l)
<popey> hmm, -ec2 kernel isn't in 8.04
<j0nr> root@jcrdevelopments:/home/jonr# ntpdate 0.uk.pool.ntp.org
<j0nr> 25 Aug 21:28:53 ntpdate[2237]: no server suitable for synchronization found
<ikonia-remote> pool
<ikonia-remote> j0nr: ok - nslookup 0.uk.poo.ntp.org
<ikonia-remote> my "l" key is sticking
<j0nr> heh heh ok
<popey> j0nr: ps aux | grep ntp
<popey> are there any ntp related things running?
<ikonia-remote> nah, you'd get a different error if there was
<ikonia-remote> can't bind to socket
<popey> true
<ikonia-remote> I bet it can't resolve it
<popey> but why would it race
<popey> i can understand the clock being wrong, but not why it races
<ikonia-remote> pre .18 kernel
<ikonia-remote> it's a bug
<popey> well yes
<ikonia-remote> I was involved in the resolution with Redhat for 5.4
<ikonia-remote> doesn't help that his host is probably out of sync too
<j0nr> but why has it only just made itself a problem? Ive been running 8.04 as long as I've had the VPS no problems
<popey> I'd certainly look at a newer kernel
<ikonia-remote> j0nr: lets sort out ntp first - then lets see what happens
<ikonia-remote> I suspect ntp has been keeping it alive ok, and now ntp isn't working
<ikonia-remote> or something like that
<j0nr> Server:         95.154.254.254
<j0nr> Address:        95.154.254.254#53
<j0nr> Non-authoritative answer:
<j0nr> Name:   0.uk.pool.ntp.org
<j0nr> Address: 94.23.152.214
<j0nr> Name:   0.uk.pool.ntp.org
<j0nr> Address: 194.238.48.2
<j0nr> Name:   0.uk.pool.ntp.org
<j0nr> Address: 78.129.239.26
<j0nr> root@jcrdevelopments:/home/jonr# nslookup 0.uk.pool.ntp.org
<j0nr> Server:         95.154.254.254
<j0nr> Address:        95.154.254.254#53
<j0nr> Non-authoritative answer:
<j0nr> Name:   0.uk.pool.ntp.org
<j0nr> Address: 94.23.152.214
<j0nr> Name:   0.uk.pool.ntp.org
<j0nr> Address: 194.238.48.2
<j0nr> Name:   0.uk.pool.ntp.org
<ikonia-remote> ok - great, you can resolve it
<popey> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<ikonia-remote> can you connect to any of those hosts on port 123
<j0nr> didnt mean that /o\
<ikonia-remote> connect to 0.uk.pool.org on port 123 as a test
<j0nr> ikonia-remote: how? :/
<ikonia-remote> pool.ntp.org
<ikonia-remote> that wasn't a sticking key, that was my being stupid
<ikonia-remote> j0nr: telnet 0.uk.pool.ntp.org 123
<j0nr> ikonia-remote: unable to connect timeout
<ikonia-remote> j0nr: ok - so there is the problem
<popey> firewall problem?
<ikonia-remote> j0nr: something is blocking you
<ikonia-remote> host or guest firewall, or a network firewall
<ikonia-remote> at least it wasn't connection refused, which means they have blacklisted you and is a real headache
<popey> when pool.ntp started I used to run an ntp server on my vps
<popey> got silly because most other customers had one too
<popey> quite pointless running lots of ntp servers on one set of physical boxen
<j0nr> so is this a question for my provider?
<popey> j0nr: depends, if you have a firewall configured yourself
<j0nr> I haven't ever configured one
<ikonia-remote> j0nr: if you want to test, sudo iptables -F
<ikonia-remote> j0nr: that will flush all your rules
<j0nr> I seem to have network issues...related or not I am not sure.... e.g. lag 999 in irssi
<j0nr> ikonia-remote: iptables not installed
<ikonia-remote> j0nr: ok, time to contact the provider
<ikonia-remote> something is blocking port 123 to the public internet
<ikonia-remote> ask them to fix that
<popey> j0nr: does ifconfig show dropped or errored packets?
<j0nr> popey: no
<ikonia-remote_> sorry, my connection dumped again
<ikonia-remote_> the hamster had to stop for a drink
<popey> ikonia-remote_: why not use irssi on a server?
<ikonia-remote_> popey: because I can't get out on port 22 from this customers site
<j0nr> OK, I shall ask my provider if there is something blocking traffic on port 123 as I cannot connect to NTP servers....
<ikonia-remote_> or I'd be on my normal box
<popey> ikonia-remote_: this is why I have ssh on port 443 :D
<j0nr> popey: snap
<ikonia-remote_> popey: I don't think even that would work as I'm hitting a proxy at the moment thats only active for the web browser
<popey> yeah, i go via a proxy :D
<popey> putty -> proxy -> sshd on 443
<bigcalm_lappy486> I'm going to murderise VM in a bit
<ikonia-remote_> I don't know if putty will work with this web proxy
<ikonia-remote_> I may try it when I get home
<j0nr> thanks popey ikonia-remote for your help :)
<j0nr> its a pain as I cannot use any commands that send stuff to AWS S3
<j0nr> as the incorrect time seems to upset it
<ikonia-remote_> j0nr: sort this and we can help you keep your machine in time sync
<j0nr> seeing as it is a bug in 8.04, do you think upgrading will help?
<popey> its not a bug in 8.04
<popey> you're running 2.6.18 which didn't ship with 8.04
<ikonia-remote_> and 2.6.18 was the killer kernel
<ikonia-remote_> post 2.6.18 should be fine
<popey> hardy (8.04) ships with 2.6.24 or thereabouts
<ikonia-remote_> I suspect the xen host is 2.6.18 Redhat pre 5.4
<ikonia-remote_> j0nr: pastebin the output of uname -a for interest
<popey> just sudo apt-get install linux-image-generic
<ikonia-remote_> (if you don't mind)
<ikonia-remote_> popey: maynot be able to if the xen host is locked in
<popey> he can try :D
<ikonia-remote_> lets look at the kernel first
<ikonia-remote_> if it's a redhat one, the xen host will be running in a mode which is like an earlier version of containers, in which case....game over
<popey> 2.6.18-238.19.1.el5xen
<popey> thats his kernel
<ikonia-remote_> there we go
<ikonia-remote_> Redhat EL pre 5.4
<j0nr> popey earlier i did apt-get install linux-image-xen
<ikonia-remote_> he won't be able to install anything
<ikonia-remote_> that kernel will be locked in
<popey> ikonia-remote_: but his provider specifically told him to
<ikonia-remote_> popey: then his provider don't know how to manage their kit
<ikonia-remote_> j0nr: reboot, I bet it doesn't change the kernel
<popey> either way its their issue
<j0nr> my provider has been suggesting I install 'official ubuntu kernels'
<ikonia-remote_> j0nr: who runs this VPS ?
<ikonia-remote_> j0nr: as in the host not the guest
<j0nr> rebooted several times, and yes, uname -a:
<ikonia-remote_> yup, it's running as a container, you aren't changing that kerenl
<ikonia-remote_> kernel
<j0nr> Linux jcrdevelopments.com 2.6.18-238.19.1.el5xen #1 SMP Fri Jul 15 08:16:59 EDT 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<ikonia-remote_> j0nr: who runs the host ?
<popey> ikonia-remote_: http://xenvz.co.uk/
<ikonia-remote_> thank you, I must have missed part of this in my drops, you seemed clued in
<popey> wow, cpanel 15 quid a month!
<popey> they must be raking it in
<j0nr> I don't use cpanel
<ikonia-remote_> j0nr: contact your hosting provider and tell them a.) update their host to a Redhat or Centos 5.4 or later version, this will help b.) unblock port 123 on their host network to allow you to sync with ntp servers
<ikonia-remote_> I wonder if zenvz.co.uk is eagles UK company, as it looks as sloppy administrated as he'd do
<ikonia-remote_> xenvz
<popey> "XenVZ is a subsidiary of OpenITC, founded by David Man and Sean McRobbie in 2007"
<j0nr> I have to say, before this hiccup, I have had great service from them.
<ikonia-remote_> j0nr: that's the way you'll get this fixed
<ikonia-remote_> popey: I must remember to look out for their names......and not work with them
<popey> haha
<popey> grumpy grue :D
<ikonia-remote_> well, if they are running containers and their support is telling the paying customer to update kernel......they need shooting
<bigcalm_lappy> Wow, my upload bandwidth is greater than my download
<bigcalm_lappy> Good on you VM
<ikonia-remote_> if they are running pre 5.4 kernels on a virtual host......they want shooting
<ikonia-remote_> either way, shooting needs to happen
<popey> Measurement Period:	  1days 6h:15m:22s
<popey> Data Downloaded:	  9GB 416MB
<popey> Data Uploaded:	  1GB 379MB
<popey> :D
<ikonia-remote_> popey: I think I'm on 11kb up and 14kb down at the moment here
<j0nr> ikonia-remote_: I feel not in a clever enough position to tell them how to run their server :/
<ikonia-remote_> j0nr: those two things need to happen,
<ikonia-remote_> j0nr: the opening of port 123 MUST happen, the kernel update should happen
<popey> oooooooooo
<popey> superhub has a "block sites" option
<popey> might block facebook for a laugh :D
<bigcalm_lappy> Yus
<bigcalm_lappy> Hehe
<popey> wife would go potty
<ikonia-remote_> what is superhub
<popey> virgin cable modem
<bigcalm_lappy> I've offered to block Facebook and Twitter for Hayley
<bigcalm_lappy> She said no
<ikonia-remote_> superhub sounds cool
<ikonia-remote_> what a great name
<popey> heh
<bigcalm_lappy> The SuberHub is anything but
<ikonia-remote_> I'm on the superhub
<popey> its a rebranded netgear with a cable modem stuck on
<ikonia-remote_> but it sounds great
<ikonia-remote_> I'll interface with the superhub right now.....
<popey> :D
<ikonia-remote_> the superhub is negotiating protocols for me
<popey> i dont have too many issues with it
<popey> needs a reboot now and then
<ikonia-remote_> what doesn't
<bigcalm_lappy> I on the other hand
<bigcalm_lappy> Lots of problems and on my 2nd superhub
<j0nr> popey: ikonia-remote_ thanks again. Have emailled them the info
<bigcalm_lappy> Could partly be due to the state of the old cable network in my area
<popey> j0nr: good luck
<j0nr> popey cheers
<ikonia-remote_> popey: beat me to it "ditto"
<j0nr> ta
<ikonia-remote_> in a Patrick Swayze style
<popey> hahah
 * bigcalm_lappy shudders
<bigcalm_lappy> I saw Donny Darko before I saw PS in any other film
<bigcalm_lappy> So I will always see him as a pedofile :(
<ikonia-remote_> he wasn't exactly on clean ground in Dirty Dancing with "baby"
<bigcalm_lappy> Which is a shame
<ikonia-remote_> 40 year old man with a 16 year old girl
<ikonia-remote_> safe ground in ghost and point break
<bigcalm_lappy> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<ikonia-remote_> I wonder what terrible quality film with subtitles awaits me tonight
<ikonia-remote_> so far I've had "the terminal" "white chicks" "some cop thing I missed the start of"
 * popey is rewatching doctor who ready for the weekend
<ikonia-remote_> with about 1000 adverts in each
<bigcalm_lappy> This weekend eh?
<popey> ya
<popey> saturday
<ikonia-remote_> rats
<popey> ikonia-remote_: how long you away for?
<bigcalm_lappy> And when is Sherlock?
<popey> dunno
<ikonia-remote_> back on the 5th
<bigcalm_lappy> How about Dirk Gently?
<ikonia-remote_> maybe the 2nd if I get bored too quickly
<ikonia-remote_> popey: can you resend that please, I closed the window by accident
<zleap> hi
<popey> lo
<zleap> when i right click on a iso file to write to cd is there a way to set the burn speed to a default, i keep having to changer it from max speed to 16x  it would be useful if it could remember or be set
<popey> pass
<zleap> ok
<zleap> would this make a useful feature though
<ikonia-remote_> pretty obsolete these days
<ikonia-remote_> rare you can't burn something at full speed
<zleap> what is
<bigcalm_lappy> The media inserted may have different write speeds from other media. So defaulting to the max speed makes sense
<zleap> i have had issues burning at max speed
<zleap> ok a way for the user to overwrite the max speed default then
<zleap> for their specific computer or set up
<bigcalm_lappy> Not sure that there is one
<bigcalm_lappy> I don't even know which package holds the burning code. Might be naulitus for all I know
<ikonia-remote_> you can certainly do it from the actual tools, eg: cdrecord
<zleap> ok
<ikonia-remote_> however from the right click menu, no chance, and is it really a good thing to add, not really in my view, I think it's obsolete
<zleap> it my end up being on of those rarely used featured
<zleap> ok thanks
<zleap> my = may
<zleap> maybe my dvd burner is just older,
<ikonia-remote_> maybe on the way out
<zleap> i am looking at a new system from ebuyer anyway which doesn't even have a cd or dvd drive
<ikonia-remote_> I'm surprised how many I go through
<zleap> one of those e-machine things,  thin with usb ports etc
<zleap> so i can add a new external one if need be
 * zleap is downloading sme server
<ikonia-remote_> those external ones don't always work well for installs, be warned
<ikonia-remote_> linux installs I should say
<zleap> i can use a usb stick for the install
<zleap> as i need both  currnet pc with data on it, then use that to create install media,  then from that install on new pc
<ikonia-remote_> just realised it's 10:30 in the UK, no wonder it's quiet
<zleap> lol,
<zleap> well i am uk based
<zleap> hi
<bigcalm> popey: can you give me a snap shot of mtr mail.google.com ?
<bigcalm> I'm getting major packet loss all along the route
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/674860/
<ikonia-remote_> popey: please tell me wopr is yours
<popey> yes
<popey> the desktop
<popey> my computers are all named after computers from science fiction
<ikonia-remote_> you have wopr obviously, what else
<popey> wopr, bishop (alien), hactar (hhgttg), ash (alien)
<popey> i have been slack actually, recently naming things "ubuntuserver" â¹
<ikonia-remote_> poor show
<ikonia-remote_> I have hal and lcars
<ikonia-remote_> no gibson ?
<ikonia-remote_> a man like you must have a gibson
<stgraber> I usually go with StarGate planets, they have a pretty huge list of them and even planned for DHCP allocation P3X-<last-byte-of-ip> P4X-<last-byte-of-ip> :)
<ikonia-remote_> stargate......please
<mgdm> popey: I don't remember Hactar. I clearly need to re-read
<ikonia-remote_> I need to check out hactar too
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/674864/
<bigcalm> I have boring names
<mgdm> Mine are mostly Firefly-related
<mgdm> though I've taken to Jovian moons for some reason
<stgraber> hactar is in the third book of the hhgttg, re-read it last week :)
<ikonia-remote_> I want to meet the person using Harry Potter names
<ikonia-remote_> I need to know who I should put on /ignore
<diplo-> evening all
<popey> hehe stgraber :D
<Kirrus> ikonia-remote_, some of our internal servers are HP quiditch themed. We have a snitch and a bludger. Our next backup server will be called Quafflebak..
<Kirrus> (snitch, monitoring)
<ikonia-remote_> Kirrus: as long as you are publicly shamed, that's fine
<Kirrus> :P
<ikonia-remote_> call one "ron" and make it a background server that offers no real use
<Kirrus> None of them were my choice.. well, except quafflebak, but that's fun anyway cos of the beer-usage
<ikonia-remote> almost time for the taxi ride of doom
<diplo-> How can i find out what speed a usb device connected is from CLI ?
<penguin42> lsusb -v
<diplo-> aha, had tried lsusb
<diplo-> thanks
<diplo-> bcdUSB ?
<diplo-> Seems so
 * penguin42 hits dist-upgrade on his mail server vm and hopes for the best
<diplo-> heh
<penguin42> hmm hth am I supposed to know which CA certs to trust....
<freakyclown> gah nanode question - how do i send a single packet with specific data to a specific port/ip
<popey> freakyclown: try #nanode?
<popey> ken is in there
<popey> monsonite
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/674892/ i just found this in the symbian source code. lol
<ali1234> they test their email database with emails released during enron litigation
<ikonia-remote> I like that
<ikonia-remote> I did research on Enron's failure as it interested me, so this ammuses me
<ali1234> presumably the whole archive is publicly available. nothing beats testing with real data.
<ikonia-remote> nothing beats enron.......
<ikonia-remote> night guys
<penguin42> hmm promising - it can deliver mail to me
<penguin42> youch, I really should clear that out: drwxr-sr-x 2 dg staff 11608064 Aug 25 23:39 texts
#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-26
<szymon_g> hi
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Miia Ranta] Things I learnt about managing people while being a Wikipedia admin - http://myrtti.fi/blog/2011/08/26/things-i-learnt-about-managing-people-while-being-a-wikipedia-admin/
<HazRPG> hmm, seriously... there's no shockwave support for linux?
<HazRPG> but shockwave is the oldest one of the two (flash vs shockwave)
<HazRPG> o.O
<ali1234> shockwave is ancient
<ali1234> do people still use it?
<Myrtti> no not really :-P
<ali1234> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?228185-Carbide-update-freezes-program
<ali1234> nokiaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
<ali1234> y u no able to correctly roll out updates??
<HazRPG> ali1234: one would assume people still use it, because adobe seem to still be making director
<HazRPG> or at least still supporting it...
<HazRPG> cost 11.5 was updated to 11.5.8 late last year
<HazRPG> cos*
<HazRPG> (also, we were using it at uni last year too)
<HazRPG> (personally, I don't see why they have director and flash... when both are stupidly similar)
<HazRPG> what's even more messed up is the fact that the mime types for both flash files and shockwave files are the wrong way round (due to legacy)
<HazRPG> one would assume shockwave is still being used though, I mean check: http://www.isketch.net/isketch.shtml
<samuel> I might go and see a GP today
<HazRPG> samuel: what's up?
<samuel> HazRPG: I think I might have hemmerages, anal fissure or colon cancer or something. :(
<samuel> hemmeroids*
<samuel> I keep putting it off, but after it got much worse 2 days ago
<samuel> So I really need to see a GP now
<samuel> Problem is, I'm usually asleep when GP surgeries are open lol
<samuel> Damn my nocturnality
<samuel> It will kill me some day
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> not to sound rude, but how old are ya?
<samuel> HazRPG: 19, so I'm unlikely to have cancer
<samuel> I think
<HazRPG> samuel: sit at a computer all day?
<HazRPG> (or there abouts?)
<samuel> HazRPG: yeah lol
<HazRPG> prob just piles then ;)
<HazRPG> wouldn't worry about it too much
<samuel> HazRPG: probably, but I want to be sure
<samuel> HazRPG: It's suddenly gotten a lot worse, despite me eating more fibre, so that is why I'm worried
<HazRPG> I started getting them around 2-4 years ago (I forget), and I'm 24
<samuel> HazRPG: Still got them?
<HazRPG> it comes and goes lol
<samuel> HazRPG: And did blood ever drip into the toilet, making the water all red?
<samuel> HazRPG: How do I tell whether the blood is bright or dark red? I don't know the difference
<HazRPG> not much you can really do, except keep buying cream/pills (but not the oral kind) to make them go away
<samuel> Pills that aren't oral?
<HazRPG> samuel: well I think the technical term is now "bullet" or something I think it says on the packaging
<samuel> HazRPG: Can I get those things on prescription?
<HazRPG> samuel: can buy over the counter stuff, and works pretty much the same... the prescription ones is much better however (shinks the piles faster)
<HazRPG> shrinks*
<samuel> HazRPG: I ask about prescription because I can get them for free
<samuel> HazRPG: So prescriptions are better :)
<samuel> I don't want to pay for my health lol
<HazRPG> yeah, I had no blood, but that's because my mum (doctor) always told/taught me not to strain on the toilet
<HazRPG> lol fair enough :P
<Azelphur> damn did anyone just hear/feel that thunderclap?
<Azelphur> we just had a like 45 second long huge thunderclap that felt more like a damned earthquake
<samuel> Azelphur: Wouldn't that be local to you?
<Azelphur> baring in mind it felt like an earthquake I assume it'll be felt a reasonable distance around me
<HazRPG> samuel: Pro-tip, ask for the suppositories not the cream... although its really preference, but I found the cream more hassle then its worth
<samuel> HazRPG: How do I get tough ones out without straining?
<samuel> HazRPG: What are suppositories?
<HazRPG> samuel: best thing is to try and edit your diet around so that its not tough in the first place ;)
<HazRPG> samuel: suppositories are basic butt-piles lol
<HazRPG> pills*
<HazRPG> basically*
<samuel> Azelphur: You're in the USA, asking people in a UK channel whether they felt your earthquake...
<HazRPG> man I'm failing at typing today T_T
<Azelphur> samuel: I'm in the USA?
<HazRPG> samuel: Azelphur is from the UK ;)
<Azelphur> that's news to me :o
<HazRPG> or at least in the UK...
<samuel> HazRPG: I had massive constipation, and then I increased my fibre intake and now do 3 times as many shits a week
<samuel> Azelphur: Sorry, my IRC client lied to me.
<HazRPG> samuel: heh, fibre will do that :P
<Azelphur> samuel: haha, I'm connecting via a server in US :)
<samuel> HazRPG: So I'm doing well?
<Azelphur> geoip: not always accurate, especially when people obviously arn't on residential addresses :P
<samuel> HazRPG: What else can I do?
<HazRPG> samuel: drink lots of coffee ;)
<samuel> HazRPG: WTF why?
<samuel> HazRPG: I hate coffee
<HazRPG> or tea...
<samuel> HazRPG: Why coffee?
<HazRPG> samuel: coffee/tea = laxative
<samuel> HazRPG: What about milk?
<HazRPG> doesn't matter, as long as there's tea/coffee in it :)
<samuel> Tea is laxative? That's news to me
<samuel> HazRPG: What else?
<HazRPG> samuel: depends on the type of tea really, some are... should say on the box
<samuel> HazRPG: I don't understand the "no straining" rule. If it's a tough one, how else will I get it out?
<HazRPG> samuel: take a book, gameboy... something... and sit it out (quite literally)
<samuel> HazRPG: Just sit there?
<HazRPG> just don't strain, you'll only make matters worse
<samuel> I thought reading on the toilet partially causes my piles?
<samuel> HazRPG: But if it doesn't come on soon, it will only be harder later.
<HazRPG> samuel: well I find deeper breathes, and leaning forward helps... but that's all I can suggest really
<samuel> HazRPG: Sometimes it just feels stuck and unable to get past the point of no return. :(
<HazRPG> samuel: it's a six and 2 three's scenario... sitting on the toilet too long will cause them, but straining on the toilet will do the same thing
<samuel> HazRPG: A what scenario?
<HazRPG> samuel: like I said, just try and get something in your diet that's a laxative to try and balance things out a bit so that you don't have to strain in the first place
<samuel> HazRPG: Is fibre a laxative?
<HazRPG> lol, six and 2 three's. 6 = 6, 3+3 = 6 ;)
<samuel> HazRPG: Can I still drink alcohol?
<HazRPG> samuel: erm... fibre technically works both ways
<HazRPG> too much fibre will cause it to be hard though
<samuel> HazRPG: WTF?
<samuel> I thought too much fibre=diahrhera
<HazRPG> too little fibre does that
<HazRPG> but like I said, it can work both ways
<HazRPG> it depends on how your body deals with it
<samuel> HazRPG: And since I've increased my fibre intake with cereal and bananas, I've only found it easier to pass stools
<samuel> But still bleeding
<samuel> More than ever
<samuel> It should be getting better, not worse FFS
<HazRPG> samuel: no, it'll only get better if you start using either creams or suppositories to try and reduce the swelling
<HazRPG> changing your diet is for the long-term, however for the problems your having now... you need to get rid of it first
<samuel> HazRPG: How do you apply those?
<HazRPG> cream: 2 ways, either put it on finger and *use imagination, I think you know where this is going*... or use the "applicator" it comes with... and likewise do the same thing (my GP recommended doing both, since using your finger you can help push them in, and the "applicator" helps spread it evenly)
<HazRPG> suppositories: simple, just pop it in
<samuel> lol disgusting
<HazRPG> as to when you do this: each time you pass stools, and before you go to bed are recommended
<HazRPG> samuel: true, but sadly it's the only way
<samuel> HazRPG: Speaking of going to bed, I'm about to. Shall I report back to you after I see a GP?
<HazRPG> samuel: its either that, or get them operated on to remove them (I know which I'd rather do!)
<samuel> HazRPG: I'd rather avoid surgery
<HazRPG> exactly ;)
<samuel> If I can
<HazRPG> my dad's had it operated on, and he said it wasn't pleasant... not in the slightest
<HazRPG> his words were "I was walking like John Wayne for a week afterwards"
<samuel> Hereditory?
<samuel> Can they be?
<HazRPG> yeah, it can be
<HazRPG> sadly :(
<samuel> Too embarassed to talk to my family about it lol
<samuel> Shall I report back to you after I see a GP?
<HazRPG> most likely, if your getting it at your age... its cos you've been passed it down (pardon the obvious pun)
<HazRPG> samuel: yeah sure if you want
<HazRPG> samuel: either give me a nudge on here, or PM
<samuel> HazRPG: I think my constipation was probably a major cause.
<samuel> HazRPG: Got email?
<HazRPG> samuel: haz@hazrpg.co.uk
<samuel> HazRPG: Thanks for the advice, man.xx
<HazRPG> (when I made it, I almost had it as me@hazrpg.co.uk, but I couldn't make my mind up as to which sounded weirder)
<HazRPG> samuel: no worries, hope things improve for you
<samuel> Night xxxx
<HazRPG> I think I should have pointed out high-fibre diets, means you need to drink more fluids otherwise your just going to be back to square one...
<HazRPG> oh well
<HazRPG> Azelphur: where bouts you at anyways?
<Azelphur> thanet
<HazRPG> Azelphur: Cumbria here, didn't feel nothing
<Azelphur> yea, very long way away from me
<Azelphur> I reckon that was felt over most of kent at least
<HazRPG> random, didn't think we had earthquakes on our tiny island
<HazRPG> (or if we did, I thought it was just because of the ripple of an earthquake elsewhere)
<HazRPG> brb going to the garage for some smokes
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> it wasn't an earthquake, it was a lightening bolt
<Azelphur> only it was so loud that it kinda caused an earthquake that lasted about 30 seconds
<HazRPG> ahh
<HazRPG> okay, that makes more sense
<HazRPG> is it bad that I'm now starting to use the terminal to just open videos, instead of just opening the folder and double-clicking...
<HazRPG> when does doctor who start back up?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: tomorrows
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I do the same usually.. start  vlc from a directory :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: didn't realise you could do that, aces :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: vlc . :)
<shauno> I actually recall there being an earthquake in cumbria, many moons ago
<shauno> we do get 'em.  just very small & rare, because we're not sat on major faults
<shauno> oh.  google's telling me last year.  the one I recall would have been late 80s / early 90s
 * popey blinks
<shauno> it's always odd to see you lot up at silly o'clock
<MartijnVdS> silly o'clock?
<DJones> Morning all
<daubers> Morning
<j0nr> popey: ping
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> is there a way to create my own PPA and are there documentation availabe for it ?
<DJones> kaushal: I#ve never tried, but a quick search links to https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
<DJones> If its just a one off package you want to create for personal use so you can install via a deb file for easier removal, you could look at this as well
<DJones> !checkinstall
<lubotu3> checkinstall is a wrapper to "make install", useful for installing programs you compiled. It will create a .deb package, which will be listed in the APT database and can be uninstalled like other packages. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CheckInstall - Read the warnings at the top and bottom of that web page, and DO NOT interrupt CheckInstall while it's running!
<AlanBell> !ppa
<lubotu3> A Personal Package Archive (PPA) can provide alternate software not normally available in the offical Ubuntu repositories - Looking for a PPA? See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas - WARNING: PPAs are unsupported third-party packages, and you use them at your own risk. See also !addppa
<AlanBell> !addppa
<lubotu3> Since Ubuntu 9.10, a !ppa can be added using a single command Â«  sudo add-apt-repository ppa:user/ppa-name Â» See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu#Adding%20PPAs for more details
<ali1234> none of that information is at all helpful
<AlanBell> meh, not that, but yeah kaushal, if you have signed the code of conduct you can have a PPA
<ali1234> you can make your own repo without signing the CoC
<ali1234> you just can't host it on launchpad
<MooDoo> hello all
<daubers> lp just makes things a bit easier
<kaushal> AlanBell: Thanks
<kaushal> DJones: Thanks
<popey> j0nr: pong
<j0nr> popey: :) http://pastebin.com/HQ8d0W5U
<j0nr> popey: in the end, my provider finally provided me with crucial details, that in order to install a kernel (other than theirs) I have to go enable a function in their control panel. Once done, rebooted and its all working again :)
<j0nr> don't know why they didn't tell me this in the first place...
<j0nr> anyway, time is working, s3sync is working :)
<oimon> achievement unlocked: get a story on slashdot front page :)
<diplo-> Morning all
<diplo> What limitations are there on partition sizes now adays ? Going to make a software raid1 for 2 x 2TB discs shortly, anything I need to know ?
<gord> diplo, i made a software raid with 3 2TB disks last weekend, its all fine
<gord> diplo, just don't use FAT32
<diplo> heh cool thanks
<diplo> Not sure whether to go with ext2 or 4
<dogmatic69> hehe "I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu)"
<diplo> Not sure I need journalling but is it worth the difference ?
<dogmatic69> bit of an under statement there
<diplo> :p
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: there's a better one in an argument with Tanenbaum, about how optimisation doesn't matter, 'cause everyone'll be using Hurd soon anyway
<BigRedS> from about 1997
<dogmatic69> hehe
<JamesTait> Hello, hello! Happy Friday!
<oimon> diplo: so you care about your data enough to raid it, but not enough for journalling?
<Twinkletoes|W> In 10.04 server, my kernel is '-generic-pae', and the installed linux image is 'linux-image-virtual'.  Which package for headers should I install?  'linux-headers-virtual' or 'linux-headers-generic-pae'?
<gord> diplo, journals are a honking good idea :) you should only not use a journal if you need compatibility with ext2 or something crazy like that
<gord> running ext4 on my raid, because its great with larger filesystems
<diplo> not tha tfussed about the data so if there was a speed incrrease it wouldn't bother me
<diplo> Cool, that's what I wanted to here
<diplo> Thanks
<oimon> is it me or is the dash looking even worse in oneiric?
<BigRedS> which bit's the dash?
<oimon> BigRedS: the thing that appears when you click on the BFB/ubuntu icon
<BigRedS> ahh
<BigRedS> yeah, that bit keeps changing
<BigRedS> I think it was orange yesterday
<bigcalm> My father is looking for a new laptop. After a lot of looking about, he's found this: http://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/Lenovo_IdeaPad_Z570_1091048.html # any comments?
<MartijnVdS> lenovo tends to be good
<MartijnVdS> i5 is good
<MartijnVdS> don't know why you'd need blu-ray
<gord> i5 is going to have sandybridge though
<gord> MartijnVdS, to watch blu-ray movies?
<MartijnVdS> gord: nothing wrong with sandybridge
<MartijnVdS> gord: not on Linux
<gord> MartijnVdS, the drivers suck
<MartijnVdS> gord: not as bad as nvidia
<gord> in O they are okay, but anything less you will have to deal with huge graphics corruption
<bigcalm> Oh, my dad will be sticking with the preinstalled windows :S
<gord> MartijnVdS, no they are awful
<gord> they don't work
<MartijnVdS> gord: Neither do the nvidia ones
<gord> bigcalm, ah in that case the sandybridge will be fine :)
<bigcalm> Looking at this from a hardware point of view
<gord> bigcalm, +1 lenovo are great
<MartijnVdS> gord: (depending on the phase of the moon)
<bigcalm> This is the other one he's looking at http://www.sony.co.uk/product/vn-e-series/vpcej1z1e
<AlanBell> bigcalm: it is a lot of power, and not that much screen
<bigcalm> 170 quid deerer
<AlanBell> and more pixels, 1600x900 vs 1366x768
<bigcalm> On a larger screen
<gord> and faster gpu if he needs that
<gord> as always, google <product> + broke - before buying ;)
<MartijnVdS> but it's sony :)
<bigcalm> He's into his archery in a big way, so recently got a highspeed camera. Will be doing a lot of video editing. I told him to look for laptops with dedicated graphics, no shared memory
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: indeed, paying more for the name?
<AlanBell> for video editing you want a big screen (possibly external monitor)
<gord> video editing mostly needs as much hard-drive space as possible and more importantly as much ram as possible
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I've told him that both have HDMI so he can hook it up to an external screen
<bigcalm> He was doing this on a Advent netbook...
<AlanBell> I would go for the little one then and spend the change on the screen
<bigcalm> Good thinking
 * bigcalm pastebins this and wonders how confused his father will be by irc
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] It was 20 years ago today.... - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/08/it-was-20-years-ago-today.html
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] cronlog - Debian Squeeze - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/08/cronlog-debian-squeeze.html
<gord> let my router monitor how much traffic i am using this month... it has been enlightening.
<popey> j0nr: awesome!
<popey> MooDoo: yesterday :D
<bigcalm> I'm now talking my dad into attaching a large tv to the dinning room wall for him to use as the 2nd monitor
<DJones> Yum Bacon & Sausage barm cake
<popey> :D
<bigcalm> This is silly :)
<AlanBell> hmm, seems my laptop won't quite drive three screens
<AlanBell> it has the laptop screen, the VGA port and HDMI port, and will do any two of the three, and will see three monitors in the monitor preferences
<seeker> Does it only have 2 clocks in the graphics
<seeker> Card?
<seeker> I know that the AMD desktop cards have 2xDVI and a HDMI, but you can only use two of the three at once as they all require a clock and the hardware only has 2
<AlanBell> that would make sense
<Hippychick> one step closer to getting an andypad \o/
<AlanBell> I tried driving them all at 1024x768 and tried putting same image on all screens but it still wouldn't do it so not a graphics memory issue
<oimon> andypad reminds me too much of andy pandy the childrens programme
<seeker> Not sure if VGA requires clocking in the same way DVI does, but given how interchangeable they are it wouldn't surprise me
<bigcalm> I had a muffin the mule
<bigcalm> Or rather, my mother did and I got to play with it at her parents' house
<Hippychick> oimon, i have no odea what andy pandy is, so i think im safe :)
<oimon> it's a good thing
<daubers> oimon: "Sawdust and hay for dinner today" was the thing mum always told us when we asked what was for dinner. That was from Andy Pandy I think
<oimon> om nom nom
<daubers> Ah no, it was the wooden tops on watch with mother :)
<daubers> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv_WJCv_Xyg :)
<KrisDouglas> Morning guys, I have a little bugbear with ubuntu at the moment. I have a compositing window manager (the default one) and transparency enabled in my gnome-terminal. When I open it, the background is solid black until it has been forced to re-draw with text or dragging the mouse across it. Any ideas why?
<DJones> daubers: Thats older than me
<daubers> DJones: We had it on VHS when I was a nipper
<DJones> I don't think I've ever watched it (that I can remember anyway)
<daubers> "Sawdust and hay" is at 12:00 in :)
<KrisDouglas> (Screenshot attached: http://imagebin.org/169719)
<daubers> KrisDouglas: What graphics chipset are you running?
<KrisDouglas> NVIDIA 9600GT, latest stable drivers (280?) x86
<KrisDouglas> as a matter of fact, I just updated them from 270 and it was the same on 270.
<daubers> KrisDouglas: I've got an 8800 and I don't get that issue on natty
<KrisDouglas> Probably some software issue, very perculiar
<daubers> KrisDouglas: However I do get something similar briefly on boot with the desktop :)
<KrisDouglas> I used to get that, but it's sorted now
<KrisDouglas> daubers, which driver version are you running on/
<KrisDouglas> ?
<daubers> "Version Current" (thanks jockey for that useful information!) Although I don't thinks its actually in use.... how can I find out what driver is actually in use?
<daubers> alias:          char-major-195-*
<daubers> So I assume 195
<KrisDouglas> System>Preferences>NVIDIA X Server Settings
<daubers> 270.41.06 :)
<daubers> That was easier
<KrisDouglas> Thats the version I just moved from
<KrisDouglas> Weird
<davmor2> happy friday all
<davmor2> Mez: look like RMS was a big success congrats
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude
<MooDoo> davmor2: how are you buddy
<davmor2> MooDoo: annoyed that I missed out on RMS but happy that I got the release out, other than that happy it's friday
<MooDoo> cool
<gord> davmor2, congrats on surviving beta freeze ;)
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> gord: no this is ISD releases nothing to do with beta freeze but you can't leave it untested
<gord> ah, just assumed you had some client side stuff you needed released
<oimon> i have an onboard nvidia ge 6150 card, and its really sluggish (even just using the desktop) on an otherwise good pc :( are the official nvidia drivers always the best way to go ? or can nouvaue driver ever be more suitable ?
<gord> oimon, for something that old, try the open source drivers
<gord> the 6150 isn't really even a 6000 series chip
<oimon> it's better than the intel onboard i have on my work pc though, which works great
<oimon> i'll try the nouveau - is it 3d supported at all?
<gord> enabled by default in O, you have to manually enable it in previous releases iirc
<BigRedS> brute-force configuration wins again :)
<oimon> popey: regarding your tweet, can you ask the guy if he's heard of Jesus, or the Beatles too..just interested
<popey> oimon: haha
<popey> (he has)
<davmor2> popey: I hope you take your educating role seriously as you educate him in the knowledge of doctor who
<shauno> or atleast aim for a hilariously confusing conversation based around the ambiguity of the name
<oimon> hey it's a bank holiday on monday in the uK :D wooo!
<MooDoo> yipee my fisrt full bank hol weekend off in years :)
<DJones> MooDoo: That'll give you time to finish teh decorating won't it? Pink or blue walls :)
<oimon> white is best...shows the crayon marks well
<MooDoo> lol
<oimon> a friend of mine had a kid who drew a treasure trail inside the house along walls and carpets
<oimon> with a big fat marker pen
<popey> ours have never drawn on walls
<popey> they dont get let out of the cages for long enough
<DJones> Are they still on the hampster wheels powering the electricity in the house
 * oimon wonders if that massive apple shop in basingstoke has planning permission as a place of worship
<MooDoo> mine 3 year old prefers angry birds on his mums photns
<freakyclown> yay for bankholiday - will be travling to northampton then liverpool
<freakyclown> :(
<gord> drawing on the walls is for newbies, when i was a kid i painted the fridge
<DJones> LIverpool? That explains the sad face :)
<popey> freakyclown: look after you hubcaps!
<freakyclown> popey: its ok its a hirecar :D
<gord> rather my hubcaps be stolen than the entire car on fire in london ;)
<daubers> freakyclown: hire cars are the fastest cars you'll ever drive :)
<freakyclown> gord: i still draw on my fridge...but on a boogieboard insted
<freakyclown> daubers: er..what?
<daubers> freakyclown: Since you're not paying for the maintenance, it's less worrying to over rev them and stress them more
<freakyclown> not technically the "fastest" just least looked after ;)
<shauno> pretty much everyone drives hire cars like they stole them
<daubers> freakyclown: I drive them faster than I'd drive my own car :)
<daubers> shauno: That's ok, everyone in liverpool did steal them
<Hippychick> daubers, maybe so but the hire cars are so crap they cant go that fast anyway
<daubers> Hippychick: Depends on the hire car. Last one I had had a v6 in it
<shauno> well, as long as he remembers not to set fire to it when he parks it, he should be good :)
<freakyclown> indeed i doubt this little alfa will be faster than say my old skyline
<Hippychick> or at least thats the case for all the ones ive driven...
<Hippychick> daubers, im not allowed one that powerful, too young :(
<daubers> Hippychick: Technically, neither was I, but they'd given away all the rubbish cars by the time I rocked up
<Hippychick> haha, lucky you :)
<oimon> powerful cars are pointless where i live since it's all speed humps, traffic lights and traffic jams at 5mph
 * MooDoo pats his motorbike :)
<daubers> oimon: Then you need a powerful bike
 * oimon wonders how he can check the expiry date of his MOT
<daubers> oimon: It'll be yesterday
<oimon> :(
<MooDoo> oimon: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_10020539
<DJones> oimon: I think you can check on tyhe dvla website
<oimon> it seems to want more info than i have with me :(
<DJones> oimon: You can http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_10020539 I'ved used that in the past, I needed the info from the reg document though, I think that was the only way
<oimon> it's probably easier to find my MOT cert lol
<oimon> whenever i get home there's other stuff to do like putting the sprog to bed
<daubers> My motorbike MOT runs out on saturday, can't afford to get it done until wednesday....
<popey> SORN!
<gord> are we just yelling out random made up words now?
<gord> PIGGLERUNT!
<directhex> ikonia, 24 cans of rbc.
<daubers> popey: Already got it booked into the garage so don't need a SORN (apparently)
<daubers> popey: Also, I thought SORN's only applied to tax?
<freakyclown> daubers: take the bike to the garage saturday and book it in for the wednesday ;)
<freakyclown> problem solved
<daubers> freakyclown: you can drive a vehicle to an MOT station with an expired MOT as long as it's taxed and insured
<BigRedS> if you believe it will pass the MoT you're allowed to ride it to a booked MoT after its run out
<daubers> (and the MOT is booked)
<freakyclown> or just sell it and buy a car
<daubers> since it was serviced last week, the MOT will be fine (or I'll harass the service place loudly)
<daubers> freakyclown: Got one of those too
<freakyclown> you keep dry and can go round corners faster :P
<daubers> freakyclown: I can outpace a car around a corner on a bike.......
<freakyclown> challenge accepted ;)
<MooDoo> me want to play too
<MooDoo> lol
<daubers> freakyclown: Hmm.... for that challenge I might have to a) pass my bike test and b) get something faster than a 125 :p
<freakyclown> rofl
<popey> hehe
 * MooDoo will play on his 600
<MooDoo> :D
<davmor2> It's the geekiest time of day 1337 oclock
<Dave2> that it is
<popey> stoppit! you'll set...
<popey> there he is
<freakyclown> i used to race bikes in the skyline and they used to get verrrrrry angry in the corners ;)
 * daubers wants one of these http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2008/05/09/mtt-y2k-turbine-motorcycle-for-sale/
<daubers> freakyclown: Just depends how brave you're feeling
 * MooDoo wants one of these - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivPheV77JcU
<freakyclown> daubers: what you want is one of thse http://motorbikenews.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/dodge-tomahawk.jpg
<daubers> freakyclown: ewwwwwww
<MooDoo> tron lightcycle road test :)
<BigRedS> freakyclown: I really want to see one of those try to go round a corner...
<daubers> freakyclown: This is better http://www.gizmag.com/ebay-tron-lightcycle/15590/
<daubers> Seriously though, I'd be more than happy with one of these http://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/tourers/#!/st1300/
<daubers> (although I do not that it has a bigger engine in it than my first car)
<freakyclown> my g/fs car is only a 1.2litre :)
<MooDoo> my next one http://www.kawasaki.co.uk/ZX-10R
<daubers> MooDoo: 's nice. Can't carry the missus+luggage though :(
<freakyclown> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ratfuML9QA&feature=related
<freakyclown> heh
<daubers> freakyclown: That... thing.... just begs one quest. Why?
<oimon> "In 2000, a meeting between Jobs and an education firm ended with Jobs screeching across the table: "You're shit! Your company's shit! It's nothing compared to mine!" his spittle flecking the table, according to theÂ Boing BoingÂ website." << sounds like a sociopatch CEO of a company i used to work with
<MartijnVdS> heh, yeah
<MartijnVdS> I know another CEO like that
<MartijnVdS> Still glad I left that place
<oimon> me too
<oimon> my wife is even more glad
<oimon> i was seriously underweight there
<MartijnVdS> oimon: She gets the happy you now? :)
<oimon> happy and healthy
<oimon> and she sees more of me
<oimon> i learned the hard way that some people continue to squeeze you when you're dry
<Hippychick> i hate places like that, where i work at the moment is starrting to turn that way.  im looking for a new job before it gets too bad
<MooDoo> Hippychick: any luck as i'm looking too
<Hippychick> i had an interview this morning, but there are not alot of 'in the middle' jobs, most want new starters to learn or somone who is alot more qualified then i am
<BigRedS> Hippychick: what do you do?
<oimon> MooDoo: what you looking for?
<Hippychick> it helpdesk support
<BigRedS> We're after in the middle sysadmins
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKsxPW6i3pM
<Hippychick> im very customer facing at the moment
<penguin42> why would you want to do helpdesk support? Masochism?
<oimon> BigRedS: link?
<Hippychick> which is a shame since im so ugly :P
<oimon> i see you have the sense of humour required for the role :)
<BigRedS> oimon: ah, we're not proactively doing it enough to have ads
<bigcalm> PCI gfx card has arrived! Time to get my 3rd screen back up and running :)
<oimon> my company is suffering a brain drain due to terrible top level management atm. not sure whether to jump too or stay and fight
<Hippychick> BigRedS, where are you based?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: do we work for the same company?
<oimon> MartijnVdS: in a way :D
<penguin42> bigcalm: Which type?
<BigRedS> Hippychick: Cambridgeshire, it's a bit middle-of-nowhere
<bigcalm> Pendulum: PNY nVidia GeForce 8400 GS
<bigcalm> Oops
<Hippychick> oh dear, not cromwell are you?
<bigcalm> penguin42: PNY nVidia GeForce 8400 GS
 * penguin42 swings
<bigcalm> Pendulum: sorry :)
<penguin42> bigcalm: Oh didn't know there were PCI nvidias
<bigcalm> penguin42: it took a lot of hunting to get a PCI card. Almost everything is PCI-E
<Hippychick> one of our main competetors are in ely
<oimon> if i stay and fight i will have job openings for good linux sysadmin
<bigcalm> or PCIE or PCIe or PCI Extended, searching was a pig :)
<Hippychick> i love it there but its abit far
<BigRedS> Hippychick: mm, we're closer to peterborough
<bigcalm> I'd love to live in Cornwall and be close to the coast
<oimon> +1
<oimon> or on portland island
<bigcalm> penguin42: also has a big heatsync with no fan :D
<Hippychick> portland \o/
<bigcalm> Back soon (I hope)
<oimon> doh, i made a best offer on ebay, and then another counter offer. that was declined so i lost the original offer too :(
<penguin42> BigRedS: Everywhere in Cambridgeshire is the middle of nowhere!
<penguin42> field-sheep-field-house-mass of tech companies-field
<kovu> hi everyone
<kovu> anyone here
<drussell> no
<kovu> oh ok then *falls asleep*
<drussell> hehe hiya kovu
<kovu> hi drussel
<kovu> drussell oops i missed an l
<drussell> kovu: ;o)
<kovu> so what you been up to today then
<kovu> hi bernard2
<kovu> 0.5s lag w0000t
<kovu> 0.1s lag w00tters even more
<kovu> wow its so active in here today
<kovu> *watches tumble weed roll by* OMG did you see that
<penguin42> sssssh we're asleep
<Laney> BigRedS: peterborough eh? /me grew up near there
<Laney> alconbury
<Hippychick> my uncle lives in oundel
<Laney> boo, northamptonshire
<popey> I once found myself lost in wales, looking for a B&B. I phoned the B&B and she said 'where are you?', 'dunno' I said. 'what can you see?' she asked. I looked around and said 'hills, sheep..'. "Ah, you're nearby then".
<diplo> Hi peeps, just installed microserver with natty
<diplo> alternate disc
<popey> yay diplo
<diplo> I thought it prompted me whether i wanted desktop ? Been a loooooong time since I've used one
<diplo> Don't want any desktop, any one know current command to purge all desktop related ?
<diplo> apt-get remove ubuntu-desktop still work ?
<Hippychick> Laney! dont boo northamptonshire! i was born there
<diplo> Or quick to just reinstall ?
<diplo> quicker*
<Laney> Hippychick: ah, my commiserations. We can't all be born in Cambs I suppose ;-)
<oimon> guys, you might be interested in the linux magazine archive DVD of all articles they ever published. absolute bargain: http://shop.linuxnewmedia.com/uk/magazines/linux-magazine-linux-pro-magazine/back-issues.html?p=2
<popey> diplo: I'd reinstall
<popey> diplo: there is an option to install minimal, not desktop
<diplo> Hmm, I didn't see it :)
<diplo> oops
<AlanBell> why don't you want a desktop?
<diplo> Never ever going to have screen on it, just another issue for security and wasted resources ?
<diplo> Not worried about disc space..
<diplo> If it's neglible I'm not that fussed
<popey> i run ubuntu server on mine
<popey> 10.04
<popey> i think
<AlanBell> leaving it at the GDM screen won't consume any resources of significance
<oimon> use runlevel 3
<diplo> I went with alternate to software raid, hadn't thought the server disc did it as well :P
<gord> i use ubuntu server also, 11.04 for my raid
<Laney> you might as well not have packages you aren't going to use installed
<diplo> Hmm decisions decisions
 * diplo reinstalls server, already have the disc
<AlanBell> by all means reinstall, but it is a myth that a desktop installed is harmful to servers
<popey> it uses more resources
<gord> bigger updates
<gord> main reason for me
<BigRedS> surely if you do /etc/init.d/gdm stop  that resources usage disappears
<popey> on a microserver which only has <1GB RAM thats a massive issue
<AlanBell> bigger updates is a good reason not to do it
<BigRedS> but, yeah, it'd make an apt-get upgrade take about six weeks
<popey> BigRedS: yup
<AlanBell> I measured GDM as using 60kb
<popey> e.g. gnome-power-manager is using over 200MB on a machine here which is not logged in
<dogmatic69> apt-get remove gdm
<popey> you didnt measure everything then AlanBell :D
<diplo> Burning ISO as we speak, popey you use 64bit or 32 iso ?
<popey> diplo: i used 64-bit iirc
<gord> gdm certainly uses more than 64kb ;)
<gord> the wallpaper is at least 1mb
<diplo> Cool, as that's the only iso i have here and my internet here sucks :(
<popey> gnome screensaver is another 200MB
<popey> pulseaudio is another 200
<popey> all adds up
<AlanBell> you have just added up 600MB, which wouldn't even fit on a 512MB machine
<oimon> MB?
<popey> this isnt a 512MB machine
<popey> its a 3GB machine
<popey> and I have swap
<popey> also, killing gdm doesn't kill pulseaudio
<AlanBell> Ubuntu desktop does run on a 512MB machine
<oimon> gnome-power-manager takes 2mb on mine
<popey> I never said it didnt
<popey> I suspect memory leaks
<popey> its been up a long time
<oimon> thats pretty savage
<popey> tempted to reboot :D
<oimon> as a rule i don't let gdm/X run on a server
<popey> that'll "fix" it :D
<dogmatic69> gpm 3.4mb on mine
<oimon> http://www.isthetouchpadinstock.com/ :P
<AlanBell> so an interesting test would be to set up ubuntu server and ubuntu desktop, and ssh into each after booting them and look at the free memory
<popey> boom, reboot
 * bigcalm slaps the silly hardware
<diplo> Reinstall underway
<diplo> Sorry for the debate :D
 * AlanBell installs 11.04 desktop on a server
<diplo> heh
<diplo> :D
 * popey wonders if AlanBell is doing the comparison in two VMs
<AlanBell> I need to put server on it, but I will do a run through of desktop first and check the free memory before logging in
<AlanBell> popey: nope, on hardware
<AlanBell> a slightly old proliant 1u server with 3GB ram I think
 * directhex moos. moo!
<Azelphur> did anyone hear a ridiculously loud thunderbolt at about 5am last night? o.O
<Azelphur> it was like scary loud / earthquake proportions
<diplo> Nope, but I may have been asleep :)
<oimon> i generally wake up if a spider farts downstairs
<diplo> I do when I have the kids at home, but since they haven't been there I've been sleeping a lot heavier
<diplo> Could be to do with me going to bed at 1-2am
<diplo> :
<diplo> :(
<directhex> i always go to bed at 2am
<directhex> that's normal for me
<diplo> I used to, then had kids
<oimon> only got around 8 1/2 - 9 hrs last night and i feel so tired today that i feel sick :(
<diplo> And a good nights sleep was needed
<diplo> lol 8+ hours!
<diplo> 4-5 is good for me
<oimon> i remeber those days
<oimon> now i'm paying for it lol
<diplo> heh I did to, amazing how many health issues arise from splitting up with your long term partner :/
<diplo> Lack of sleep, wanting to go to sleep etc
<diplo> rah, starting up a new install \o/
<diplo> See if I got it right this time :D
<Hippychick> sleep is awesome, i go for aroubd 12 hours sleep on a weekend
<popey> we take turns to sleep in on the weekend
<popey> I usually get saturday, wifey gets sunday
<diplo> I have never ever slept for 12 hours, probably max I get is 8 hours at the best
<Hippychick> popey, thats a good way of doing it
<diplo> popey, we used to do that.. was nice.. stay in bed even though awake and read in peace
<Hippychick> my parents never got away with that, i'd go in and tickle their feet until they either gave me money or got up
<oimon> if i get up early on sat then when wifey is up i go back to bed at 10am for an hour
 * penguin42 breaks out some stronger chocolate
<popey> i tend to go to bed at 1am
<popey> alarm goes off at 6am or 7am
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> popey: btw my headset hack is working using that tecknet thing you linked
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/August%202011/IMG_20110824_003604.jpg \o/
<popey> CYBORG!
<Azelphur> haha indeed :D
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/675280/
<Azelphur> I'm seeing ho wlong it goes on a single charge, I havn't charged it since yesterday morning
<Azelphur> left it on overnight too
<penguin42> anyone got hints on debugging python apps?  it's apparently hung but gdb shows all threads sitting in poll; is there a way to get a python back trace?
<BigRedS> hah, is that just a big battery glued on the side?
<Azelphur> BigRedS: nearly, velcro :D
<BigRedS> aha, handy for quick changes when the battery runs out :)
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> I think the headset sends a signal to the PC when AC is plugged in actually
<AlanBell> so the memory use of a not logged in desktop is 234MB or so, any other tests I should do before installing server?
<Azelphur> so I might be able to make it ping me when the tecknet runs out, then I can just take the tecknet off and put it on charge for the next 8 hours while using the headsets internal battery \o/
<penguin42> AlanBell: The memory use of a logged in desktop?
<Azelphur> although even after 1.5 days the tecknet is still at 60+% and the headset is full lol
<Azelphur> so it's probably got like 4 days of battery life at least \o/
<AlanBell> penguin42: sure, can do
<davmor2> popey: I think you meant CYBERMAN!
<oimon> AlanBell: 238MB - 136 (cached)
<oimon> - buffers
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/675283/
<AlanBell> ok, about to nuke this and put ubuntu server on it then
<bigcalm> 3 screens once more \o/
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> bigcalm: you use 3 monitors with Ubuntu?
<Hippychick> i want 3 screens :( im stuck with 1 though becuase wine freeks out when trying play games
<Azelphur> Hippychick: what :o, I use quad monitor + wine for games
<Azelphur> just use a virtual desktop and it's all fine
<Hippychick> i dont know whats going on with it as it works fine for oly
<Hippychick> ive probably set it up wrong
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> if you just run winecfg and put stuff in a virtual desktop
<Azelphur> it should be fine
<Hippychick> anyway, break time \o/ back in 10 minutes
<oly> it still freaks out for me,
<oly> unity strugles with a few things in full screen mode
<oly> got a friend here when they put chrome full screen all the button are of center :p
<Azelphur> yea, I've noticed unity doesn't work with full screen apps :/
<oly> ie you have to click just below them
<oly> looks like it will be the same with oneric as well or at least it currently is :/
<Azelphur> yea the unity bar at the top pushes stuff down, even full screen apps
<oly> gnome-shell handles it better but still has issues
<Azelphur> I ditched unity on my PC
<Azelphur> I use it on my laptops, but I don't game much on my laptops
<bigcalm> Azelphur: yes, I do
<Azelphur> bigcalm: what setup do you have, separate X screens or no compiz? :P
<oly> i tried a seperate x screen on my laptop, the game dropped from like 60 fps to 1 :p
<oly> it was like opengl never got initalise on the second screen
<Azelphur> lol
<MooDoo> davmor2: claire barker was mellors is my sister :D
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/675298/
<AlanBell> so Ubuntu desktop uses 238MB and server uses 219MB
<bigcalm> Azelphur: I have no idea
<Azelphur> lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: figured as much just saw the claire and mellors at a quick glance
<penguin42> AlanBell: How do you get 219 from that?
<oimon> AlanBell: i'm sure you need to subtract the cached+buffered mem from the used amount.
<AlanBell> penguin42: by doing free -m
<penguin42> oimon: But I'm never sure which bit - there is the 2nd line in the used column, but those don't correspond to the right hand values on the Mem line
<davmor2> MooDoo: you obviously missed my pm that explained it all in detail :P
<penguin42> AlanBell: I agree with oimon, the 'used' field by itself is too misleading
<penguin42> oimon: Oh I see
<penguin42> AlanBell: I think the important number is the 'used' in the 2nd row - i.e. 86MB
<oimon> correct
<oimon> IMHO
<oimon> http://blog.scoutapp.com/articles/2010/01/11/free-memory-on-linux-free-m-vs-proc-meminfo
<oimon> This sort of cached data will be freed by the kernel when an application tries to allocate more than what is "free", which is why the "-/+ buffers/cache" line is really the important line to pay attention to when you're checking out the free memory on a system.
<AlanBell> even less in it then
<bigcalm> I do notice that scrolling some screens becomes slugish after a while. Looking at "Additional Drivers", it says that the nvidia driver is installed, but not in use.
<AlanBell> server http://paste.ubuntu.com/675299/  vs desktop http://paste.ubuntu.com/675280/
<AlanBell> bit odd that the total memory is different!
<oimon> on a fresh boot
<oimon> now wait 4 months
<oimon> or 2 years in the case of my servers
<ali1234> why is it odd?
<AlanBell> ali1234: because it is the same hardware in both tests with the same total amount of memory
<ali1234> oh wait, TOTAL memory
<ali1234> yeah that is weird
<ali1234> same kernel?
<ali1234> i'm guessing not
<AlanBell> not quite, server has a different kernel and clock tick or something
<oimon> both 32 bit?
<oimon> PAE?
<ali1234> i bet there's different kernel tuning too
<AlanBell> oimon: desktop was 32bit, I used the CDs
<ali1234> network, process management etc
<AlanBell> all good reasons to use the server build for servers
<AlanBell> but the "OMG resources!!" one isn't
<gord> http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6199/6080645789_612a6276a1_o.jpg - i like that you can tell who that is even through the blur ;)
 * AlanBell slaps the applications lens with a wet kipper
<AlanBell> who is it anyway?
<gord> you can't tell?
<oimon> stuart langridge?
<AlanBell> looks like Aq in a supermarket
<gord> now the real question is why does jono have a video of him in a super market...
<popey> I know
<AlanBell> oooh, that is the buying evil drinks thing
<popey> they were buying stuff to put in a pot and make adam sweet drink it
<Azelphur> does anyone know how to tell how much bandwith each person is currently using on a Linux router? (DD-WRT)
<popey> can you use bandwidthd on dd-wrt?
<popey> http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=226164&sid=4b2e51cd09b6f7932ce63662c7d810e7
<Azelphur> interesting
<Azelphur> can bandwithd do live?
<Azelphur> most of my life problems are "Whos uploading at 100KB/sec making me have 1k latency while trying to play games"
<popey> dunno
<popey> i use openwrt, might do something like that
<popey> apparently openwrt > dd-wrt
<Azelphur> yea, openwrt doesn't work on my router :(
<Azelphur> does openwrt do it, though?
<popey> ah, bummer
<popey> i saw references to bandwidthd and openwrt
<Azelphur> ah
<popey> might try it on mine
<popey> gonna take my openwrt + 3g stick on holiday :D
<Azelphur> I don't think bandwithd does live reports though, which is kinda what I need
<popey> wifi enable the holiday house
<Azelphur> nice :D
<popey> you can use iftop
<popey> for live stuff, sorry thought you wanted reports
<popey> iftop is the puppy for live stuff
<BigRedS> assuming it's one person per interface
<diplo> I really like that idea popey as much that I'm seriously debating about buying the same router
<diplo> Have a few of them on ebay on watch :)
<popey> :D
<popey> the wndr3700?
<popey> it's a seriously nice router
<diplo> yep
<Azelphur> nice
<Azelphur> now I just have to figure out why dd-wrt doesn't want me to ssh
 * Azelphur attempts to install iftop
<popey> which router do you have Azelphur ?
<Azelphur> Linksys WRT610N v2
<popey> diplo: the 3g dongle from 3 is awesome
<popey> I'm in the middle of the building and still get rock solid 6Mb/s
<Azelphur> according to the wiki, the v1 is work in progress, the v2 isn't mentioned
<Azelphur> :(
<popey> for openwrt?
<Azelphur> yea
<popey> get a new router :D
<popey> then you can do backup internet with 3g dongle on it
<popey> or Azelphur's own internet, not for anyone else
<Azelphur> can do that on dd-wrt too
<popey> with a usb dongle?
<Azelphur> yea
<daubers> popey: What was the router you bought?
<popey> i had trouble with that
<Azelphur> but no providers seem to have sane deals for backup internet
<popey> daubers: wndr3700
<popey> i have 3 of them :D
<daubers> popey: Do you ever buy things in 1's?
<popey> see my latest tweet
<popey> no
<diplo> yeah that was the one I was looking at popey, they do some fairly decent deals
<popey> hmm, 7GB to use in 7 days
<directhex> moo
<Azelphur> the only thing that stops me doing usb redundancy is the lack of sensible deals from the mobile providers :(
<directhex> omo
<directhex> oom
<Azelphur> I don't want to go on contract or pay for an entire days internet when my net goes down for 15 minutes
<Azelphur> directhex: baa aba aab
<BigRedS> How do I ask apt to replace all the config files of a package? I'd rather not do a purge and a reinstall 'cause there's several dependencies I'd rather not disrupt
<BigRedS> --reinstall and dpkg-reconfigure each left the config be
<BigRedS> alternatively, has anyone got a vanilla /etc/dovecot for 1:1.2.15ish that they fancy tarring and sticking somewhere I can download it?
<diplo> We got any good people with Irssi in here that will be about later tonight ?
<diplo> Going to set up on my home box later
<MooDoo> diplo: don't you use irssi?
<diplo> Nope
<diplo> Xchat mainly
<diplo> And want a central place that I reconnect to
<directhex> bip!
<directhex> bip.bip.bip.bip.bip
<BigRedS> I'm a good person who uses irssi, but I'm not very good with irssi
<diplo> So just bought my microserver and setting it up tonight/over the weekend
<diplo> So any configs that can be shared/set up tips would be great tonight when I get in
<diplo> Just set up my dyndns account
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/ss3eD1i3
<Azelphur> wat :(
<oimon> is htc sensation any good?
<directhex> oimon: it's htc#s second highest end phone, currently
<Azelphur> shoulda pasted one more line, the ls returns nothing,
<directhex> oimon: so if you like large-screen android phones, and HTC Sense, then yes
<oimon> cool :)
<directhex> on paper the samsung galaxy s 2 is better, but samsung's touchwiz is horrible compared to sense, IMHO
<oimon> too much to keep up with
<oimon> directhex: how u enjoyig ur new toy?
<directhex> the htc evo 3d is a slightly higher end version of the sensation, with 3d gubbins
<directhex> oimon: the phone is suitably phone-shaped. haven't had a proper play with the tablet yet
<oimon> directhex: enjoying the TP but with a few app related exceptions
<directhex> the experience running pre apps on touchpad is disappointing
<directhex> and i miss the gesture area
<oimon> i noticed that adobe reader doesn't have search, no edit facility in quickoffice (yet), no kindle app, lack of good free VLC app, and dedicated gmail app
<oimon> stuff that was expecting. however the actual UI is nice to navigate and use
<oimon> battery life is :)
<Azelphur> popey: any ideas on http://pastebin.com/YKZaTqyF ?
<Azelphur> sort of openwrt related :P
<Azelphur> no matter what I do, it always says it's missing the dependencies, even though it's already installed the dependencies.
<bigcalm> I now appear to have a 4 monitor set up, whoops
<diplo> popey, you still here ?
<MooDoo> diplo: you using irssi now ?
<diplo> Nope, just this second started lappy up at home
<MooDoo> ah
<diplo> Going to start on it once I have got tea started
<MooDoo> :)
<diplo> just wanted to start copying files from my external device to new server
<diplo> So no time wasted whilst cooking
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Geek with a new toy has priorities!
<popey> diplo: ya
<popey> diplo: leaving soon
<popey> Azelphur: tried to install those packages?
<diplo> Was your esata port enabled on your box?
<popey> yes
<popey> diplo: what you plugging into it?
<Azelphur> popey: yea it just says the same, ipkg is grabbing the dependencies and "installing" them when I try to install iftop
<diplo> External icybox esata hdd caddy
<Azelphur> but then it says they arn't installed
<diplo> Works  on my revo
<popey> Azelphur: tried manually?
<diplo> 1TB drive in it
<popey> diplo: odd, checked bios?
<Azelphur> popey: yea
<popey> Azelphur: disk space?
<Azelphur> plenty
<diplo> Next check I think
<diplo> cheers
<popey> Azelphur: which one fails?
<popey> Azelphur: if you install individually
<Azelphur> none
<Azelphur> if I install them individually it says exactly the same thing as if I install iftop
<popey> eh
<popey> so you can ipkg install libpcap
<Azelphur> popey: yea
<Azelphur> and when I do it it just says exactly the same, downloading, done, unpacking, configuring, done
<Azelphur> and then go to install iftop and it tries to install it again, and then says it's not there :D
<Azelphur> basically it looks like installing packages isn't working
<diplo> Well there is 100+GB of files moving, now to feed myself
<diplo> :D
<popey> Azelphur: looks like read only filesystem to me
<popey> :D
<popey> nice one diplo
<Azelphur> except ipkg update worked
<Azelphur> and it saved the package list, and utilized it
<popey> reboot, do it again?
<Azelphur> could do
<Azelphur> I've been recruited for dinner cooking, So I'll try that when I get back :)
<diplo> Debating whether to reinstall the revo tonight as well, clean start for all systems
<diplo> Still running lucid/mav on yours popey  ?
<popey> lucid
<popey> oh, revo
<popey> uhm, 11.04
<diplo> Work ok I am guessing
<popey> well, i dont use it as a desktop atm
<popey> it's under my desk switched off
<popey> it was the server for oggcamp talk management
<diplo> Mine dual boots atm, thinking of hosing and full natty install for my xbmc
<diplo> ah
<diplo> :D
<matti> ;]
<matti> Folks. Are ORLY books available on Kindle as well?
<popey> matti: search on amazon âº
 * matti didn't had to change to Google yet.
<popey> doesnt look like it
<matti> ;/
<popey> i tried a few and got the "tell the publisher you want this on kindle" thing
<diplo> Any thoughts people ?
<diplo> sudo mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sdd1/ /media/usb1
<diplo> NTFS signature is missing.
<diplo> Failed to mount '/dev/sdd1': Invalid argument
<diplo> Plug into this laptop and it mounts auto magically
<diplo> With no errors :/
<bigcalm> diplo: once you've plugged it into the laptop, what fs type has it used when you issue: mount
<bigcalm> ?
<diplo> NTFS
<diplo> fdisk -l shows as ntfs as well
 * bigcalm shrugs
<diplo> heh I am at that point as well
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Tea! come back clean ideas
<bigcalm> Coffee!
<diplo> Hmm dropped the 1 off the end and it tried to work
<diplo> hmm dropped off -t part and it has worked
<diplo> :D
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts/dzvQPhA1vXi
<diplo> bigcalm, can you see if you can see this in a sec http://94.0.255.215:9091
<diplo> Is that you ?
<bigcalm> diplo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/675382/
<diplo> I like the tilted  screen
<bigcalm> diplo: the g+ link is me, yes
<diplo> yay thanks bigcalm, wat i wanted to see!
<bigcalm> Oh, cool, you're welcome
<diplo> Just need to get dyndns working with ddclient next
<diplo> Looks exactly like my work desktop
<diplo> nice littlejquery book you have there
<diplo> Want one of those myself
<bigcalm> Picked up the pocket reference at oggcamp
<diplo> Really wished I had gone, had my kids that weekend though :(
<bigcalm> Yay for having your kids :)
<bigcalm> There'll be next year man
<diplo> Yep, will book parents for next year if it falls on my weekend
<diplo> Or bring them along :D
<bigcalm> Indeed! Saw a few families there
<diplo> One more favour and I am done bigcalm ?
<diplo> http://alkesh.dyndns.org
<bigcalm> iain@snafu:~$ host alkesh.dyndns.org
<bigcalm> alkesh.dyndns.org has address 94.0.255.215
<bigcalm> But the URL times out
<diplo> cool ta, ah yes might help if i open the port
<diplo> :D
<diplo> 2 secs
<bigcalm> Have you set up port forwarding?
<diplo> Done now :)
<diplo> had the page open, hadn't applied :/
<bigcalm> Still not going anywhere
<diplo> kk, thats odd how about http://94.0.255.215 ?
<bigcalm> It works!
<diplo> So dns not resolved properly yet some how maybe
<diplo> thanks
<bigcalm> As does the dyndns url
<diplo> So Irssi next task i guess
<diplo> ah you mean it works on url as well now ?
<bigcalm> Yes
<diplo> Thanks alot matey
<diplo> Appreciate that, hard doing stuff easily like this from same ip.
<diplo> Could vpn into work but that's effort :P
<bigcalm> Or ssh to another machine and use w3m back to yourself
<diplo> that's an idea
<diplo> Oooh err irssi aswell, now I Just need to understand how to use it/configure it
<bigcalm> diplo:
<bigcalm> http://themusicninja.net/newsongs/Crush%20On%20You%20%28Knife%20Party%20Remix%29.mp3
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> cat iain@revo:~$ cat freenode.sh
<bigcalm> irssi -c irc.freenode.org -p 6667 -n bigcalm[home] -h 192.168.1.8
<bigcalm> So it's nice and easy to ./free<tab>
<diplo> Cool thanks, looking at adding it to start up as well
<diplo> So if server reboots for any reason it auto reconnects
<diplo> Do you not run it in screen ?
<diplo> bbiab, got to pop and see parents.. thanks again for you help bigcalm
<bigcalm> You're welcome
<bigcalm> I don't use irssi unless I have to. Tend to use xchat
<funkyHat> diplo: I have this line in my user's crontab: @reboot screen -dmUS irssi irssi
<MartijnVdS> \o/ got the "We want permission to put fibre in your home" form today
<funkyHat> diplo: I guess you don't need the screen stuff if you're just using it as a proxy though?
<MartijnVdS> 500/500mbit here I come
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: !!!! !
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Heck how do you get that?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://www.eindelijkglasvezel.nl/
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: most of the Netherlands will get it by 2015
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Do you think you could annex Manchester ?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Start learning Dutch
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I will, but there is only so much I can larn off Droste Pastille packets
<penguin42> learn
<Azelphur> popey: think I found my issue, I have a 4GB USB drive plugged in and mounted on /jffs/ so it says, but apparently I only have 800KB /jffs/ \o/
<Azelphur> nice, even though it was set to mount usb to /jffs/ it was mounting some block device.
<diplo> And back
<diplo> how are we all doing?
<zleap> good
<diplo> 400GB transferred, this is going to take all night :(
<Azelphur> yay got iptraf working :D
<Azelphur> iftop*
<hamitron> diplo: how much in total to transfer?
<diplo> Another terabyte at least
<diplo> maybe more
<diplo> Across about 4-5 drives
<diplo> Just bought a microserver and 4tb of discs to consolidate it all down
<hamitron> :)
<diplo> Right onto irssi now i guess
<diplo> freakyclown, sorry only recently got back. Noticed you mentioning about a proxy with irssi, what do you mean by that ?
<freakyclown> huh?
<Azelphur> anyone know how to get iftop to display a more useful view for monitoring who's hogging bandwith?
<Azelphur> it seems to just show per connection by default, which is very difficult to read
 * diplo finds what you wrote
<diplo> <funkyHat> diplo: I have this line in my user's crontab: @reboot screen -dmUS irssi irssi
<diplo> <MartijnVdS> \o/ got the "We want permission to put fibre in your home" form today
<diplo> <funkyHat> diplo: I guess you don't need the screen stuff if you're just using it as a proxy though?
 * freakyclown points at name
<funkyHat> â¢)
<diplo> aha, lol
<diplo> Ooopsy
<diplo> Sorry!
<diplo> < is tired :(
<funkyHat> diplo: how are you using irssi? Connecting via ssh and using irssi directly, or using it as a proxy for another IRC client?
<diplo> Not sure, never used it.. thought about just using directly via ssh
<funkyHat> Cool
<diplo> Want it running at home always connected is the main thing for me
<diplo> So any tips that anyone has I'll play
<funkyHat> Yeah, I wouldn't advise using it as a proxy, when you do that (same as with any IRC proxy) there are a few rough edges
<diplo> Just found a few good links on the web that I was going to try
<diplo> That's what I like to here :)
<funkyHat> diplo: if you want it to run persistently you'll need to use screen or something equivalent. I use screen because it's what I know and it comes installed on Ubuntu
<freakyclown> fwiw i had a box in a datacenter i ssh into - on that box is irssi running in a screen session
<diplo> yeah, going to use byobu, just open a screen to try now
<freakyclown> so i just ssh to the box screen -r and im in irssi :)
<diplo> opened*
<funkyHat> ah, byobu is a wrapper around screen
<funkyHat> So if you like byobu use that
<MartijnVdS> it is
<MartijnVdS> quite a fancy wrapper
<diplo> yeah, when i typed screen it actually tells you to use byobu
<diplo> instead
<MartijnVdS> I just use screen anyway
<MartijnVdS> don't need the fancy
<funkyHat> diplo: also you don't need to specify options for the server etc. on the command line, you can save servers and channels you want to automatically connect to in irssi's config file
 * funkyHat has been using screen since before byobu existed, and already had quite a nice screenrc set up, so he hasn't really got much use for byobu
<diplo> Yeah just read that, /save auto saves to a config file ?
<MartijnVdS> diplo: in irssi?
<funkyHat> Yep
<MartijnVdS> diplo: it saves some of the config bits to a config file, yes
<MartijnVdS> diplo: /save -> edit .irssi/config -> /reload if you don't want to look up the commands :)
<funkyHat> You can do /network add freenode ; /server add -auto irc.freenode.net freenode
<MartijnVdS> diplo: also /layout save can be nice sometimes
<funkyHat> /help server and /help network tell you all of the other options you might want to use
<diplo> Cool great thanks guys
<diplo> Will see me joi n shortly
<diplo> After i get my burnt dinner... oops maybe should have finished that first :D
<funkyHat> The way I actually have irssi set up is with its own user account, and I've added a bit to the bottom of that user's .bashrc that automatically loads the irssi screen session
<funkyHat> And on my computers that I actually sit at I've done alias irc='ssh irssi@servername' . So I just type irc and it appears :D
<funkyHat> (actually I use autossh, so I don't even have to bother reconnecting if there's a dropout or I switch wireless networks)
<diplo> lol nice
<diplo> Will start small i guess
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: http://blogs.perl.org/users/smylers/2011/08/ssh-productivity-tips.html
<MartijnVdS> diplo: &
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> diplo: ^^
<funkyHat> This is the amount of thought I put into stuff just to save myself a few keystrokes. It's a problem I have
<diplo> heh i do that with work, like to learn things properly at home and then take shortcuts i guess
<diplo> Cheers MartijnVdS
<funkyHat> That article says to put ForwardAgent yes in .ssh/config ... I think it's safer only to do that for hosts you trust
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: it says "Put it in if you trust the host you're sshing to. And its admin(S)"
<MartijnVdS> "Note you should only use agent forwarding if you trust the sys-admins of the intermediate server."
<funkyHat> MartijnVdS: yes it does say only do it if you trust the host, but it doesn't explain how to configure it like that
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: What do you mean?
<MartijnVdS> you either trust a host, or you don't
<MartijnVdS> yo uconfigure it using the "Host somehost" sections in your ~/.ssh/config
<funkyHat> MartijnVdS: putting ForwardAgent yes in .ssh/config without putting it in a specific section will make it work for every server you connect to, not just those you trust
<MartijnVdS> ah yes
<MartijnVdS> that's not smart
<funkyHat> MartijnVdS: exactly â¢)
<MartijnVdS> unless you're gullible and trust everyone :P
<funkyHat> You'd be amazed how many people do trust by default
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: Tell me about it.. :(
<daubers> Evening
<zleap> hi
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> hi
<czajkowski> hows you ?
<AlanBell> I have beer
<barrydrake> hi ... OK thanks
<AlanBell> beer and unity hacking
<czajkowski> back home for 1 night
<czajkowski> back to castleconnell tomrrow
<czajkowski> then back up again for dinner up here
<czajkowski> sunday more visiting
<barrydrake> Listened to Richard Stallman last Wednesday.  I think he's doing more harm that good for the general cause - (Gnu/Linux)
<daubers> \o/
<barrydrake> He's a triful extreme
 * daubers has finished Halo ODST
<daubers> barrydrake: Linux isn't RMS's focus. He's more of an exteme FOSS type
<daubers> barrydrake: (Not that I don't agree with you..... )
<barrydrake> I gathered that!  I just feel he's doing harm to everything Linux
<barrydrake> I love his philosophy - I just feel that his approach is causing negative waves
<AlanBell> linux is not his cause
<barrydrake> tsunamis, even
<czajkowski> he's a rude old fashioned man who should not be the face of the fsf if they want to get more people involved
<barrydrake> Alan, I know
<AlanBell> I am not sure that the FSF do want to get more people involved
<daubers> barrydrake: While I disagree with much of how he thinks, I think someone like him kind of needs to exist. As a warning if nothing else
<czajkowski> AlanBell: not sure the fsf does anything postive tbh
<barrydrake> czajkowski: rude - certainly.  But he's the most entertaining speaker I've ever listened to
<AlanBell> FSFe is a bit more moderate
<czajkowski> entertaining in a cringe worthy way, watching himself pick at his beard and feet and eat it is not my idea of entertainment
<mgdm> and the whole 'Church of Vi' thing is just bizarre
<barrydrake> well, he does point to a goal ...  it might be attainable - when the world is ready
<mgdm> wearing an old hard drive platter on your head is not really the way to convince people that your ideas are sound
 * hamitron just considers RMS crazy
<barrydrake> I actually liked the imagery
<Lcawte> barrydrake: to make everyone super linux hackers so some idiot in a garage nukes the planet? :P
<czajkowski> meh i never want to hear rms speak again
<barrydrake> my left wing friend considers RMS to be a super-fascist
<czajkowski> i;d rather pull my nails out
<barrydrake> quite
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://twitpic.com/6b3xqp view last night :D
<funkyHat> I'm pretty sure that the church of vi thing is *supposed* to be just bizarre
<funkyHat> (and I will use emacs just as soon as vimpulse makes it feel just like using vim)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: odd, your recent photos are not loading for me
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://twitpic.com/photos/czajkowski
<AlanBell> yeah, first one I see is great talk from @andypiper #
<shauno> my only real problem with rms, is I really don't see any alternative 'figureheads'. and boy do we need 'em
<AlanBell> and Jon eating rather too much burger
<AlanBell> not that I wouldn't attempt it
<barrydrake> there was this guy called Shuttleworth .....
<AlanBell> there was a young lady from limerick
<AlanBell> who installed Ubuntu Oneirec
<AlanBell> she found it quite crashy
<AlanBell> with looks rather too macy
<AlanBell> and the app lens just esoteric
<daubers> barrydrake: Goes with the personality type of F/OSS people really
<barrydrake> shame!
<czajkowski> AlanBell: eh who
<mgdm> AlanBell: \o/
<AlanBell> just making you feel at home L)
<barrydrake> Zealots are necessary - but I'd hate them to rule the world
<daubers> barrydrake: Also the way that the FOSS ecosystem work kind of precludes any one person becoming _the_ figure head
 * daubers likes the work zealot
<daubers> for some reason it tends to make me crave yoghurts
<barrydrake> well, that can't be all bad
<daubers> When the nuclear armeggedon comes, all that will be left are cockroaches and f/oss advocates
<barrydrake> hmm!
<daubers> who will lecture the cockroaches on their software being evil and proprietary
<barrydrake> no rats
<hamitron> was going to say I wanted to be a cockroache
<AlanBell> and shout if you say "open source" rather than "Free Software"
<hamitron> then you said about them been lectured
<hamitron> :/
<daubers> AlanBell: Or linux rather than GNU/Linux?
<barrydrake> Y'all know the script
<daubers> I'm just going to put this paper/glue/book on the hammer/screwdriver/saw/shelf over here
<shauno> I actually cancelled my fsf membership very recently, because they just don't seem to do anything useful with it anymore
 * AlanBell gets back to hacking the app lens
<daubers> AlanBell: Heh :) I'm trying to mend the Samba docs :(
 * czajkowski goes back to her cider 
<czajkowski> nn
<barrydrake> I've had a frustrating time today testing oneiric ....
<diplo> daubers, still not fixed your samba issue ?
<daubers> diplo: I figured out which was write (i.e. the code or the docs) making the docs match now
<daubers> diplo: Hopefully it'll stop someone else going on a maniacal killing spree if I mend it
<directhex> so... BT infinity. yay or nay?
<daubers> directhex: If I can't have, you shouldn't either, so nay (until I get it)
<AlanBell> directhex: yay, but wall mount the huawei modem and check it is a "2B" revision
<directhex> daubers: they turned it on over a month early here, compared to the last estimate
<directhex> AlanBell: wall mount it?
<AlanBell> directhex: and consider buying through plus.net
<diplo> going for it at work shortly directhex just waiting a date
<daubers> directhex: It's been on in my area for 2 months... but not intending to hang around long enough to make the contract worth while
<AlanBell> directhex: yeah, they overheat, must be vertically mounted for airflow
<directhex> AlanBell: only buying direct from BT means no bandwidth cap
 * AlanBell has 120GB per month
<daubers> directhex: You don't get capped during the night (on plus net)
<daubers> or your nightly usage doesn't count towards the cap
<funkyHat> Well the fsf does free code hosting, but so do 100s of other places
<AlanBell> Â£16.49 for 40GB per month or Â£21.49 per month for 120GB and a fixed IP address
<funkyHat> Oh, scrollback. Silly me
<AlanBell> directhex: personally I don't want a home hub
 * daubers potters off to the land of nod
<diplo> gn
<directhex> plenty of VDSL routers on themarket!
<AlanBell> really?
<AlanBell> once you have the huawei device you just need something that will do PPPoE
<directhex> as long as it's high end enough not to go ARGH DATA and die, yeah
<popey> evening all!
<diplo> evening
<barrydrake> hey guys, time to go.  CU soon.
<popey> Quiet night tonight.
<mgdm> Indeed
<diplo> popey, you will be glad for G+ api to be released ? Save you multiple posting :)
<popey> haha
<popey> Yeah, I could use gwibber then
<popey> (not)
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Tried new one yet ?
<diplo> This data moving is taking too long :(
<diplo> Glad I used byobu now
 * funkyHat moved ~650GB of data yesterday
<diplo> Just shy of that now, seems to be going kinda slow
<diplo> Another terabyte left yet :/
<funkyHat> cor
<diplo> Want these to finish before I start anymore off though
<popey> diplo: copying from what to what?
<diplo> 3 usb drives to HP Server
<diplo> Wish I had stopped and got esata port working
<diplo> :P
<funkyHat> A microserver? Or some other HP server?
<diplo> Micro
<funkyHat> â¢) I got one of those
<diplo> heh, its all popey fault!!
<funkyHat> Actually it is
<popey> hah
<diplo> He bought a revo and did a good right up on it so i bought one a few months later
<popey> sorry about that
<diplo> I debated about a micro server and guess what he bough one and wrote up about it
<diplo> And...
<diplo> I just bought one
<diplo> :D
<funkyHat> I'm pretty please with it, though I haven't really started using it yet
<diplo> I have these things on my mind but just don't have the ooomph to do it
<popey> well, thats very nice that you trust what I write
<funkyHat> I'm moving out and going to uni and it's going to be my gateway+storage+mpd+whatever box
<diplo> It's part that and part that I'm glad someone else took the hjump before me
<popey> :D
<diplo> Mines mainly for my media
<popey> my microserver is mostly for backups
<diplo> Backed up a lot of my dvds and my kids dvds
<popey> it's got 4x2TB drives in it
<popey> backs up lug.org.uk, ubuntu-uk.org and a bunch of other stuff
<funkyHat> popey: md-raid?
<popey> yes
<popey> md0 : active raid10 sdc1[1] sdb1[2] sde1[0] sdd1[3] 3907023872 blocks 64K chunks 2 near-copies [4/4] [UUUU]
<diplo> I'd like to have had more discs, money though :(
<diplo> Few months maybe
<funkyHat> I'm running FreeBSD on mine actually, currently still on the original 250GB HDD, but I've just put a 2TB drive in it and I'm going to set up ZFS
<diplo> How bloody big are the backups popey ?
<popey> 2.9T  2.2T  632G  78% /srv
<popey> getting full!
<popey> its also my get_iplayer machine :D
<funkyHat> hehe
<diplo> lug people using up a fair bit then
<mgdm> I ought to get one of those one day
<diplo> Your ISP are happy with you on initial backup then
<diplo> :D
<funkyHat> Well they keep extending the "just this month" Â£100 cashback offer
<diplo> heh yeah same.. 31st sept now
<mgdm> ooo
<diplo> was my final decision
<diplo> Got myself a 0% for 15months Credit card and set up a standing order to pay it off over 15 months
<funkyHat> My Â£100 cheque is sitting right here actually
<diplo> Just filled mine out today
<funkyHat> It will take a good month to arriv
<funkyHat> e
<diplo> yeah it does warn that.. it's fine. with the credit card i'm quite happy tbh
<diplo> Saves me spending too much in one month, leaves me spare cash if car breaks down as well
<popey> diplo: yeah, not too bad, I'm on virgin, 30MB down, 3Mb up, so I just let it backup 4 times a day
<funkyHat> I don't have a job at the moment so I can't sign up for any more credit cards, so no 0% offers for me
<diplo> I'm seriously debating going back to Virgin.. do miss the high speeds
<diplo> heh, just paid one off, credit from my Electric company for Â£500 \o/
<diplo> I hate credit cards, but they do have uses
<popey> yeah, i haven't had much problem with virgin
<diplo> Last one was my ex wifes who left me lots :(
<diplo> I was with them 12 years or so.
<popey> erk
<popey> how long have you been split up?
<popey> (if you dont mind me asking)
<funkyHat> I like credit cards, but then I'm quite good with managing money
<diplo> Only reason I left was a Friends and family deal with sky uber cheap
<popey> yeah, I'm on a "mates rates" deal with virgin
<diplo> We were married 11 years, together nigh on 17, left me in november moved out end jan
<popey> oh, quite recently.
<diplo> yep, hit me like a ton of bricks :/
<popey> sorry to hear that
<diplo> Been a wreck for a few months
<popey> i can only imagine
<diplo> But on the up slowly, 2 boys as well which has been the hardest
<popey> see them regularly?
<mgdm> diplo: sorry to hear that :/
<popey> my brother in law recently split, 3 kids, so yeah, horrid for everyone
<diplo> This server etc is a treat to myself to give me more you know happiness i guess, geeks toys
<popey> :D
<popey> yeah, I do that now and then
<diplo> yeah I have them every week for 3-4 days a week
<popey> wow, thats better than most!
<diplo> She couldn't handle them full time
<popey> yeah, boys can be a handful :D
<diplo> Defo daddys boys
<diplo> I kept the house as well
<popey> that must make it easier if the kids get to come to the family home regularly?
<diplo> We could barely afford it some months with 2 of us, now I run the place on my own and get by ok.. bloody odd!
<diplo> Oh defo.. if i didn't see them I honestly think 2-3 months ago I may not have been here.. was *that* bad
<diplo> Never understood how people could feel / do stuff like that, but now i totally see it
<popey> yeah, you never know till it hits
<popey> at least the server was a relatively cheap treat :D
<freakyclown> wow cheery channel tonight ;)
<diplo> It's the first thing I've bought myself in 3 years :P
<popey> hehe,
<diplo> Also lost 6 stone!
 * popey runs up and cuddles freakyclown 
 * funkyHat â¡s backuppc
<diplo> Back to my slim jim days
<popey> blimey, I could do with losing 6 stone
<diplo> heh freakyclown
 * popey runs off to kick the wife out
<mgdm> How much do the microservers go for?
<diplo> So did I!!
<funkyHat> mgdm: Â£235 ish, so Â£135 after cashback
<diplo> About Â£136 with cash back
<mgdm> nice
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Get 1gb ram and 250gb hdd for that as well
<funkyHat> Which is less than the mini-itx motherboard (on its own!) I was looking at before I saw popey's post on the mailing list about the microserver
<popey> oh they've upped the disk
<popey> mine has 160GB
<popey> not that it matters much
<diplo> yeah it was when i first looked
<mgdm> where's a good place to get them?
<diplo> nope, won't use mine at all I doubr
<diplo> ebuyer
<popey> ebuyer
<diplo> Ordered at 4pm, delivered 10am next day \o/
<popey> blimey
<diplo> Free
<funkyHat> mgdm: I got mine from kikatek, it was a couple of Â£ cheaper than ebuyer iirc
<mgdm> nice
<mgdm> I shall check it out
<popey> i got mine from it247
<popey> 8 months back :D
<mgdm> thanks guys, appreciate the advice :)
<diplo> http://www.quidco.com/ebuyer/
<diplo> 3% off
<diplo> :)
<popey> heh
<popey> i always forget quidco
<diplo> So did I, submit'd and went f***
<funkyHat> Ohh I missed that (or it's more recent)
<funkyHat> Oh, it says 1.5% for computing sales. Still worth doing
<diplo> ah didn't look at it much as i had already hit submit :(
<diplo> just saw 3% after
<diplo> Was annoyed with myself again :P
<diplo> I reckon I could be close to Â£400 in quidco if i actually used it everytime
<diplo> Instead i have Â£2.50
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Old work colleague has saved/claimed back Â£1180 in last 18 months
<mgdm> My brother uses it a it
<mgdm> s/it/bit/
<Azelphur> does anyone know how to identify which IP is using lots of bandwith using iftop?
<Azelphur> iftop seems to show a lot of fields, all of them unmarked. Very unhelpful :(
<diplo> Not used iftop :(
<diplo> iptraf not work on it ?
<Azelphur> iptraf looks nice :)
<Azelphur> and it has a package :D
<Azelphur> but when I run it it just says "Aborted" :(
<diplo> this from your router ?
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> diplo: oh hey, does iptraf not need to be ran on the router?
<diplo> sure it does, got snmp on your router ?
<diplo> Use nagios or something to monitor it with snmp
<Azelphur> dunno, it's a DD-WRT :)
<diplo> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/SNMP
<diplo> Yup
<diplo> So could have nagios or something similar monitor it
<Azelphur> hehe
<diplo> Cacti to sort out graphs
<Azelphur> diplo: all I'm trying to do atm is monitor the baddies
<Azelphur> more like a "Who's making my game lag" problem
<diplo> ah.
<diplo> Don't you live at home with your family ?
<diplo> With lots of lines ?
<Azelphur> diplo: living at home with my family is all well and good, but short of commandeering their computers to see if they are doing it, there's no way of telling
<diplo> lol this me being active on IRC is doing good for me giving up smoking again
<diplo> totally forgot to have one last 3 hours
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Set a quota, break it and it cuts off there connection
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Not sure how advanced dd-wrt is mind
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> diplo: I don't mind people downloading too much
<Azelphur> it's when they frag the crap outta the upload making me have 2000ms ping that winds me up
<diplo> lol, QOS then ?
<Azelphur> QoS only really works if you have a stable connection that has a stable bitrate
<Azelphur> ADSL doesn't fit that bill :(
<diplo> Made a difference at our work place
<diplo> On business dsl lines
<Azelphur> that's because you have a stable connection that has a stable bitrate :D
<diplo> Or... proxy ? limit upload speeds
<diplo> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Squid_Transparent_Proxy
<Azelphur> I don't really wanna limit upload speeds unless I have to
<diplo> All got fixed ip's or in a certain range
<Azelphur> I just want to find out where the problem is
<Azelphur> all fixed IPs
<diplo> lol, so basically get iptraf working or your screwed
<Azelphur> so a by IP view would be great
<Azelphur> haha :D
<diplo> vnstat ?
<diplo> http://humdi.net/vnstat/
<Azelphur> vnstat gives live output?
<diplo> http://www.sqweek.com/sqweek/index.php?p=1
<diplo> Funnily enough just installed it, and yet it still didn;t click ref you
<Azelphur> hehe
<diplo> hourly :/
<Azelphur> :)
<diplo> Type vnstat on cmd line i think you can get output there and then
<diplo> but with daemon it updates hourly.
<Azelphur> yea, but not live bitrates
<diplo> Been a while
<Azelphur> I use vnstat never seen that feature
<diplo> iptraf or iftop
<diplo> popey, again :D
<Azelphur> I got iftop but it's confusing D:
<diplo> Get most of my ideas from in here :D
<Azelphur> and it's on the router working
<diplo> never played with it, htop and iotop but iftop
<diplo> iftop -i ?
<diplo> specify a interface
<Azelphur> yea, I did
<Azelphur> it shows all the destination addresses and the computer connected to it
<diplo> What part you confused with ?
<diplo> yeah just installed and running it now
<Azelphur> which is useless to me
<diplo> quite nice
<Azelphur> yea it does look cool
<Azelphur> but the 3 fields on the right arn't labeled as to what they are at all
<Azelphur> and I don't really care about per-connection, I care about per IP/computer
<mgdm>  
<popey> bed
<popey> nn all!
<diplo> nn
<mgdm> Oops
<diplo> looked at the help whilst it's running Azelphur
<diplo> with h ?
<Azelphur> a little
<diplo> lot's of options to toggle on and off displays
<diplo> brb getting a beer and have a ciggie now ive talked about it
<diplo> :)
<Azelphur> yea, I didn't see anything that looked like it'd do what I want
<Earthling> Hello :-) anyone in glasgow ?
<mgdm> Earthling: hi
<Earthling> Ello
<freakyclown> did...did you just say 'ello?
<Earthling> Course I did. Elloo the noo also :-)
<Earthling> Ha fresh prince of belair is on nick. My wee sister has never seen it. I feel old.
<freakyclown> Earthling: it was a movie quote ;)
<diplo> heh Fresh prince was great
<diplo> Azelphur, not sure tbh, only way I've really done it is with snmp etc using things like nagios
<diplo> :/
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> tempted to just play with libpcap in python
<Earthling> Aye still makes me laugh too. But for it to be on nickelodeon makes me wonder what kids think of the stuff on it. Some humour is adult
<diplo> heh well share if you get it working, would be interested to see what you come up with
<Earthling> Freakyclown excuse my slowness ha
<Earthling> Using irc on my sony elm is hard on my thumb
<Earthling> Cellardoor could you query of for a minute please
<Earthling> Me
<cellardoor> Earthling,
<Earthling> Private query that is
<cellardoor> Why? :S
<Earthling> Just a few moments :-)
<cellardoor> but what for :S
<freakyclown> grooming--
<cellardoor> Precisely what I fear!
<Earthling> Once upon a time people would query simply. I just wanted to ask you something of interest
<cellardoor> ask it here then :)
<Earthling> Grooming is for undernet lol
<mgdm> steady on
<cellardoor> Precisely - If you want to ask a question to a stranger just ask it here ^^
<Earthling> Your nick cellardoor, reminds me of something
<cellardoor> Donnie Darko
<freakyclown> Trap Door ;)
<cellardoor> "The most beautiful combination of words in the English language, is Cellar Door"
<cellardoor> and that too ;D
<Earthling> Beautiful words or something?
<Earthling> Yes
<Earthling> A line from donnie darko? Also
<cellardoor> I am not even that big of a Donnie Darko fan, just thought it was nice at the time.
<Earthling> It is nice. There is a movie company of that name also
<Earthling> The sound mout lots pounds french or something
<cellardoor> I just never understood the damned plotline of the film.. I mean I 'get it'. But I don't fully understand all the connections - if that makes sense?
<Earthling> Out loud sounds
<cellardoor> Oh - best Ubuntu Twitter-related client?
<Earthling> Yes makes sense.
<Earthling> Lol never do a channel list on a candybar phone  on freenode
<penguin42> ouch
<Earthling> Mmhmm it was just taking too long
<Earthling> Now bear grylls is on
<Earthling> That man has plenty guts
<Earthling> Anyone remember the name of that social ubuntu channel?
<hamitron> !social
<hamitron> worth a try ;)
<hamitron> !offtopic
<lubotu3> #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics (though our !guidelines apply there too). Thanks!
<Earthling> Could be that
<hamitron> tbh, we are kinda casual in here
<hamitron> :)
<Earthling> Apart from query users ;-) lol
<Earthling> Just bored. And only online via phone at the moment.
<diplo> Oooh class old tune!
<diplo> Vixen :D
<Earthling> Turn it up :-)
<diplo> Already worrying about neighbours :D
<diplo> Not listend to these girls in years
<diplo> Can remember buying the album in 1988 :(
<Earthling> They are quite hot
<diplo> Not so sure now :p
<Earthling> ;-)
<diplo> Been a night of reminiscing tonight, playing lots of 'Hair metal' bands i saw in 80's and 90's
<diplo> Really must replace some of my LP's with digital copies
<penguin42> anyone know if there is an equivalent of bash -x for python - i.e. show you every line it's executing ?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-27
<diplo> Still learning myself :(
 * penguin42 tries to debug virtManager
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Another late person on the go then
 * penguin42 should go to bed actually....
<szymon_g> hi
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> hi AlanBell
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers upgrade to 11.10 for funsies
 * MartijnVdS is going to try to replace the radio in his car today
<MartijnVdS> never done that before... :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Easy peasy
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I can't see any way to get the radio out though
<daubers> MartijnVdS: The radio should have 2 pieces of metal which are tools to insert/remove the radio
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> I have those
<daubers> they slide in the side of the radio to remove it, one either side. You might have a fascia you need to remove
<MartijnVdS> Yeah I don't expect too much trouble
<MartijnVdS> I even have a special cable that can switch power leads (in case they're the wrong way around and the radio forgets its settings every time it's turned on)
<diplo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o diplodude
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> This hurts :) http://t.co/IrR335L
<diplo> One of my drives failing that im trying to copy off :(
<MartijnVdS> daubers: use ddrescue
<MartijnVdS> it'll make a 1:1 image, retrying sectors if they fail
<MartijnVdS> diplo:, sorry
<diplo> thoughts if i resize the ntfs partition on this drive
 * diplo looks into now
<diplo> cheers
<MartijnVdS> it might not rescue everything, but it'll rescue as much as it can
<diplo> Tired, didn't get till 5am :/
<diplo> to bed till*
<MartijnVdS> sounds like you need an afternoon nap
<MartijnVdS> during F1 qualifying maybe? :)
<diplo> heh, never been able to sleep during the day :/
<MartijnVdS> F1 = perfect afternoon naps
<diplo> oh yes, forgot that was!
<MartijnVdS> Spa this weekend
<diplo> Suppose I really ought to get tidying the house so i can sit down and watch it
<daubers> Well, oneiric seems to work
 * daubers expected moar breakage
<daubers> someone pop over to maplin and pick me up a push to make switch. Ta
<diplo> :)
<diplo> For you touchpad owners, http://androidcommunity.com/hp-touchpad-android-2-2-1-system-dump-files-now-available-20110825/ if you haven't seen it
<directhex> diplo: boo.
<diplo> heh I know you like webos :)
<directhex> diplo: the touchdroid project is a crap premise masterminded by teenagers who struggle with basic concepts
<directhex> e.g. i wonder if any of them noticed that the touchpad's kernel source is an android tree - i.e. a touchpad android kernel is a recompile away
<diplo> I'd like to have a play with a touch pad
<diplo> oh, I hadn't read that much yet
<diplo> Lost interest i guess after i couldn't get one
<diplo> :/
<directhex> let's take an example - the forum where the first system dump was taken? their contains-non-free-components image dump is marked with "THIS IMAGE IS MY INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND CANNOT BE UPLOADED TO ANY SITE EXCEPT THIS ONE"
<directhex> thse aren't sophisticated people
<diplo> :D
<daubers> directhex: Sounds like a young steve jobs
<skybinary> hello
<skybinary> can anyone help me? i installed linux mint on my second drive but it failed at the bootloader
<skybinary> seeing as the second drive has mint installed how do i get vmlinuz-2.6.38-8-generic into my boot partition?
<AlanBell> !mint
<lubotu3> Linux Mint is not a supported derivative of Ubuntu. Please seek support in #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org
<bigcalm> Afternoon kids
<brobostigon> afternoonings bigcalm
<MartijnVdS> \o
<Pendulum> hiya bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hey hey :)
<daubers> maplins is still full of fail :(
<bigcalm> Web browsers and eclipse (and others possibly) are very laggy to scroll. How might I improve this? Already have the nvidia driver installed, though the system says that it isn't in use...
<bigcalm> Using xinerama over 3 monitors as twinview doesn't do what I need
<Azelphur> haha, so your a xinerama kill performance no compiz person then :P
<bigcalm> Unless somebody here is good with setting up xorg for 3 monitors over 2 graphics cards
<Azelphur> *wave*
<Azelphur> TwinView doesn't scale over graphics cards
<Azelphur> it's in the name, twin, ie only 2 :(
<bigcalm> Aha, let me pastebin my xorg
<Azelphur> bigcalm: you've got 2 choices really, A) you stick with xinerama with bad performance / no compiz
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/675980/
<Azelphur> B) You use separate X screens, you get performance, but you get loads of bugs and you can't drag windows between your first 2 monitors, and your third
<bigcalm> Lets see if we can get option B working
<Azelphur> I use 2x twinview split down the middle :)
<Azelphur> ok, pretty simple then
<bigcalm> Note that I have my 2nd screen rotated 90 deg
<Azelphur> just go into nvidia-settings and set it up in there is the easiest
<Azelphur> put your first cards monitors on twinview
<Azelphur> and make your second cards monitor a Separate X Screen
<bigcalm> Can you rotate the 2nd screen in twinview?
<Azelphur> not sure
<bigcalm> Here goes :)
<bigcalm> This is messed up :/
<bigcalm> Also:
<bigcalm> Could not get screen information
<bigcalm> RandR extension is not present
<MartijnVdS> RandR not present? nvidia?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm[revo]> Azelphur: now running 3 seperate X screens
<bigcalm[revo]> Just to have things run quickly _and_ have my centra monitor rotated to the left
<Azelphur> :)
<bigcalm[revo]> Does mean that I can't move windows between screens at all
<bigcalm[revo]> Never mind :)
<bigcalm[revo]> I have to be careful where I load a program now
<bigcalm[revo]> Not very ideal this sadly
<bigcalm[revo]> Would be good to be able to copy all of my panel shortcuts from screen 1 to 2 and 3
<bigcalm[revo]> Oh bugger
<bigcalm[revo]> Now I have 6 virtual desktops for each screen
<bigcalm[revo]> This is going to be crazy
<brobostigon> new Dr who. bbc1 19:10.
<HazRPG> ali1234: wow, they actually closed the bug just because it "no longer does it in oneiric" when the bug was originally for natty...
<ali1234> that's right
<ali1234> a bug has to be fix released before it can be sru's
<HazRPG> ali1234: SRU'd?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I is looking forward to 19:10 too :)
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> ah, SRU stands for Stable Release Updates
<HazRPG> hmm, I think others should confirm this bug cos at the moment I'm sure the dev's think that only 2 people are having issues with this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/826059
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 826059 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity gets stuck in 'expose' mode when you drag an icon over a launcher icon and hold it there" [Low,Fix released]
<HazRPG> Make sure to save all work first, and be ready to open up a terminal to do "unity --replace"
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] It was 20 years ago today.... - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/08/it-was-20-years-ago-today.html
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] cronlog - Debian Squeeze - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/08/cronlog-debian-squeeze.html
<MartijnVdS> Doctor Who in an hour \o/
<kvarley> Ubuntu 11.04 amd64 - The wired network is unmanaged when I click on nm-applet. How can I fix this? I can use the wired network and can use the internet but nm-applet doesn't manage my iface
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: It only works if you plug in a cable
<MartijnVdS> and it detects link
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: It's a software issue. Not hardware.
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: is the cable connected?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I have a cable plugged in, that's how I'm talking to you right now.
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: It's something I've had happen with Ubuntu before too but can't remember how I fixed it
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: is the interface in /etc/network/interfaces? IF it is, network-manager will ignore it
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Ah yes, that's it
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: It
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: is in there for some reason
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adk1ujjmguo
<daubers> lo
<MartijnVdS> \o daubers
<brobostigon> bbc1, now
<HazRPG> \o/
<HazRPG> brobostigon: DOCTOR WHOZ! \o/
<brobostigon> yes, :)
<brobostigon> o/
 * hamitron will be watching the previous episodes from the series first, to recap what happened
<HazRPG> hamitron: I did that last night ;D
<hamitron> I'm still downloading them
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> 3 days left
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> ;o
<hamitron> so should be up-to-date by next weekend
<MartijnVdS> Doctor Who was GOOD</spoilers> :)
<HazRPG> o.O
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: all I can think of is "what the... I don't even!"
<hamitron> shush
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> anyone else thinking they need to rewatch that episode??
<brobostigon> that was an interesting ep.
<shauno> fantastic taste in cars tho :)
<ali1234> HazRPG: you'd think your sister would have learned not to do that the second or third time
<ali1234> anyway bug is now nominated. i'm looking for the exact patch that fixed it
<HazRPG> ali1234: That's just it though, users don't realise that bugs can exist in software... they just think it "randomly crashed".
<ali1234> hence "second or third time"
<ali1234> "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
<HazRPG> she probably would have done it more times until I said to her "stop doing it... clearly its broken and needs fixed by the people who made it"
<ali1234> gord: when i see "dnd" in unity changelog, that refers to drag and drop?
<gord> ali1234, it does
<ali1234> any idea what patch fixed bug 826059?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 826059 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity gets stuck in 'expose' mode when you drag an icon over a launcher icon and hold it there" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/826059
<gord> not dungeons and dragons
<HazRPG> gord: could mean "Do Not Disturb" :P
<ali1234> could mean just about anything given you also have "bfb" and "bamf" as acronyms?
<ali1234> what do they stand for btw?
<ali1234> i know bamf has something to do with focussing?
<ali1234> bfb = best friends button?
<gord> big friendly button
<gord> not sure what patch would of fixed that, i don't really work with the launcher much
<gord> bamf is the bamf application matching framework
<ali1234> ok, thanks
<ali1234> how do i do a bisect with bzr?
<gord> i think there might be a plugin in the repos to do that
<gord> there are a whole lot of them under the namespace bzr-<thing>
<ali1234> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/plugins/en/bisect-plugin.html
<ali1234> why isn't that built in? it is a pretty important feature
<ali1234> oh well
<gord> good question :)
<Azelphur> I just started using github for my project, \o/ https://github.com/Azelphur/SourceIRC
<ali1234> gord: how do i test a unity build from bzr checkout? can i just unity --replace from the build tree without installing it?
<gord> ali1234, nope, its a compiz plugin so you have to install it then compiz --replace ; you can do cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/somewhere/ to define a local install prefix. once you are done testing you can rm ~/.compiz-1/plugins to use system installed unity again
<gord> unless you are testing the dash, i built a standalone version of the dash a long time ago so i don't have to do that :)
<ali1234> no, i;m testing the launcher dnd :)
<ali1234> so DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=~/.compiz-1/plugins?
<ali1234> i am confused
<ali1234> can i just build a deb from bzr?
<penguin42> ali1234: If it's got a debian subdir then try dpkg-buildpackage in there
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/28470/how-do-i-build-unity-from-source/28472#28472
<penguin42> (Generic deb answer rather than unity)
<ali1234> yeah it doesn't have one
<ali1234> the HACKING file in the source explains it too
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/media-player-info/+bug/835568
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 835568 in media-player-info (Ubuntu) "Creative ZEN Style 300 is not being recognised" [Undecided,New]
<MartijnVdS> wooo
<MartijnVdS> :-)
<HazRPG> I needed to wait for a time I could get on the actual machine to be able to do "ubuntu-bug media-player-info" :)
<MartijnVdS> "Hey $sister_name, do you want that bug fixed or not?" ;-)
<MartijnVdS> so you got it to work?
<ali1234> why you can't ssh in and submit bug?
<zleap> i tried to boot ubuntu on an e-machines dual athon system with nvidia 9x00 graphics should i get unity by default as i don't i just get gnome or do I need to choose unity somewhere
<ali1234> you need to install the nvidia driver
<zleap> ok
<ali1234> then reboot
<zleap> so i will get that when i install it
<ali1234> unity is already installed
<ali1234> it just doesn't work on nouveau
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i am installing from 2gb usb stick and it ran out of space when trying to downloading the extra repository data to it,  so it could find the nvidia drivers
<zleap> I am probably doing something wrong, i should be able to test all this from a live session right
<gord> i hear that unity does work on nouveau actually
<gord> haven't tried myself, and i would depend on how well nouveau supports your particular gpu
<jacobw> depends if you've run out of space, which i doubt on a 2GB drive
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i have also tried to install from the live cd and it crashed during install (creating ext4 file system) so I am trying a newer iso image to copy to the disk
<ali1234> ok, the version of unity in natty won't work on nouveau, because it is blacklisted
<ali1234> at least the version in the installation CD
<zleap> ok
<ali1234> all you have to do is do a normal install
<ali1234> then reboot
<ali1234> then jockey will install nvidia driver for you
<ali1234> then reboot again
<ali1234> then you will have unity
<zleap> ok i will try and do the install without it crashing
<zleap> as the system came with linpus I can't even figure out how to install new software on it
<jacobw> i've had the natty installer hang on partitioning
<jacobw> i don't know why it happens
<zleap> ok
<AlanBell> evening all
<zleap> hi
<zleap> as i said going to try a different newly downloaded iso image the orignal one i had was just after 11.04 came out so i am guessing it gets updated or fixed if there are issues
<jacobw> aa1?
<zleap> jacobw, ?
<jacobw> acer aspire one
<zleap> oh
<jacobw> linpus sucks
<zleap> jacobw, yeah i know but I don't want to wipe it, until i have a working alternative
<zleap> jacobw, http://www.ebuyer.com/267867-emachine-er1401-desktop-pt-nbzec-004
<ball> Linpus == Linux for Bagpus?
<zleap> according to ubuntu this is certified to work
<jacobw> well, if you install natty then you can always run 'ubuntu classic' i.e. gnome2 without 3d acceleration
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: nope I didn't... not a clue how to, looked into the repo and seems that all they do is add the mpi into a folder... I'm guessing media-player-info needs to be recompiled with the mpi file in the directory
<jacobw> ball: could well be :P no upgrade path from whichever fedora release merged -core and -extras
<zleap> ball, more like Linux distro to put people off and install any available version of windows
<HazRPG> ali1234: I can ssh in, didn't think it would work that way since a browser is normally opened up...
<ali1234> if display is unset it just prints the url for you to copy/paste
<ali1234> which is also handy when you report bugs on a netbook and dont want to fill out the form on a tiny screen and keyboard
<ali1234> which is something i do often since i test +1 on my netbooks
<ball> What is a +1?
<zleap> back later
<ali1234> ball: ubuntu+1
 * ball will have to look that up.
<ali1234> ball: it just means the next version of ubuntu...
<ball> Oh.
<HazRPG> ali1234: sweet, didn't realise it could do that
<HazRPG> make life easier in future
<ali1234> yeah, ubuntu+1 usually has a lot of bugs until near release, and filling bug forms on a netbook is not nice
<ali1234> launchpad and apport are really good
<ali1234> best bug reporting system i have ever used
<ali1234> and i have used quite a few
<ali1234> specifically why i like it is because apport makes it easier to submit good reports
<ali1234> where as the approach the others take is to make it harder to submit bad reports
<diplo> Evening all
<jacobw> evening diplo
<mfraz74> evening
<diplo> Changing the port that ssh runs on is as simple as ssh_config unhash line port and change from 22 to watever i want and restart ssh ?
<AlanBell> diplo: yes, but do it carefully unless you have physical access
<diplo> Well i've done it and restarted ssh
<jacobw> think about the path back to your machine on that port..
<diplo> and can still get on via 22
<diplo> Local atm
<mfraz74> have you logged out before trying again?
<diplo> yep
<jacobw> wouldn't make difference on local, would have to have logged out of ssh on remote before restarting server
<diplo> Sorry meant local to machine not on the local machine, should have made myself clearer
<diplo> who displays just my one session on
<diplo> Suppose instead of doing this i could just turn off password login and use 22
<jacobw> for public key auth?
<diplo> Sorry
<diplo> Yeah
<diplo> Seems to be not reading the config
<diplo> tomorrows job i think now
<jacobw> http://pthree.org/2007/02/10/ssh-key-authentication/
<AlanBell> diplo: you were editing /etc/ssh/sshd_config right?
<AlanBell> the d is important
<diplo> yep
<diplo> Sorry went to the loo, yeah can do key auth fine
<diplo> Just any changes not seeming to get read
<jacobw> ok
<jacobw> yeah, sshD..
<diplo> lol, I know i shouldn't do stuff when im so tired
<diplo> I'm glad i rechecked AlanBell
<diplo> was ssh_config and not sshd :/
 * diplo wont change anything else till tomorrow
 * AlanBell has had several glasses of wine and a beer
<AlanBell> just about ready to do some unity hacking
<jacobw> ffs, noscript on youtube means an advert prefaces every video
<jacobw> sounds about right for poking unity :P
<AlanBell> judging by the rest of the code and design decisions I might need a refil
 * hamitron makes note Unity is coded by drunks
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> well we know from bug 764905 that it has been tested by drunks
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 764905 in unity "Drag and drop a USB key into the trash should eject the USB key" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764905
<jacobw> LOL
<Seeker`> Did you guys hear about the Â£1million bounty on col. gadaffi's head?
<Seeker`> most expensive chocolate bar since 2008, when the economy was given a Â£750 million boost.
<AlanBell> that must be one hell of a chocolate bar
<penguin42> how much just for the  hair?
<AlanBell> beaten to the punchline
<jacobw> ha
<AlanBell> Dr Who was rather good this evening I thought
 * daubers hasn't seen it yet
<ball> I think we're about three episodes into the 11th doctor, so no spoilers please! ;-)
<andres-kain> Hello all. A usual question, how do I change the login screen? no the splash: the image in background when selecting user login.
<AlanBell> well seeing as spoilers could collapse the space time continum and end the universe as we know it I will refrane
<AlanBell> andres-kain: http://maketecheasier.com/change-login-and-boot-screen-in-ubuntu-lucid/2010/05/13
<jacobw> has it changed with gdm3?
<AlanBell> we are using lightdm in oneiric
<AlanBell> and yeah, it would change
<AlanBell> however the login window is looking pretty cool right now
<jacobw> http://ubuntucorner.blogspot.com/2011/02/changing-gdm3-theme-wallpaper.html
<jacobw> yeah, it looks good.
<andres-kain> Thank you! will have a look. Should be the same for xubuntu right?
<jacobw> yes
<andres-kain> Thank you!
<Earthling> I want to build a craft
<hamitron> what kind?
<Earthling> To get off this planet
<hamitron> bit boring, wanna try something new
<Earthling> Currently, looking up flashing my sony elm instead
<hamitron> didn't realise sony had a tree named after them :/
<Earthling> You know the japs
<Earthling> Put a cpu in anything
<hamitron> aye :D
<Earthling> I managed to flash another sony phone, hope I can do this one. But its got this irc client on it. So spend too much time here instead.
<Earthling> Thumb ache client lol
<hamitron> I gave up phones
<hamitron> just lost interest
<hamitron> :/
<Earthling> Not take many calls hee hee. But very useful for sofa irc
<Earthling> With free data im set free
<hamitron> guess so
<Earthling> Still wish to unlock my android. Linux plus phone is perfect
<Earthling> Thats sony too. They make it very difficult
<hamitron> if I actually get around to it, I'll probably look closely at the selection of wp7
<Earthling> Then it midnight discovery channel distracts me til dawn with myth busters. Im doomed lol
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I got no tv
<hamitron> turned analogue tv off
<hamitron> :/
<Earthling> Nor do i.. So the licence doll think
<Earthling> Am starting to get very interested im solar power but they so expensive :-( I can run my whole house on 600 watts since I dont run much
<Earthling> Fridge is 450 watts alone. Rest is computer which is 140
<Earthling> Am babbling too
<hamitron> 450W? :|
<hamitron> didn't realise they used that much tbh
<penguin42> Earthling: I asusme the fridge doesn't take that all teh time?
 * hamitron would hope not
<Earthling> On. Standby its very low but they need lots to keep temp stable
<hamitron> is this an old device?
<Earthling> Prob more like 50 on standby
<Earthling> About 4 years
<hamitron> you obviously drink far too much beer that needs chilling ;)
<Earthling> Would still need grid for hoover and oven though. Unless I can store power at high output
<Earthling> Lol beer :-)
<Myrtti> awww this discussion pushes me to browse through tumbleweed house blogs again...
<Earthling> Saw very cute little box in linux mag today. 5watts for full computer power. Cant remember its name.
<Earthling> Atleast in chatting old man lol
<Earthling> I used to have a channel called tumbleweed lol
<Earthling> Myrrti whats on your mind
<Earthling> Apart from being a troll lol
<Myrtti> sewing machines, linux admin jobs, nailpolish, mum and fish, not in that order
<hamitron> mum and fish?
<Myrtti> I like fish
<gord> would kill for some suchi tonight
<Earthling> A stigma
<Earthling> Scottish fish is wonderful
<Earthling> As is the weather lol
<Earthling> Wait. Mail polish? Lol someone wants a cheap buzz!
<Earthling> Nail
<Myrtti> or not
 * ball is confused.
<Earthling> Perhaps some geeks still jack sense of humour. But thats ok, still home people.
<Earthling> Good people
<Earthling> Damn t9
<Myrtti> anyway, nini lovelies
<Myrtti> â¥
<ball> Yes, quite.
<Earthling> Dare I chat on irc about rubbish lol
<ball> Earthling: Depends on the channel, probably.
<Earthling> No. Depends on user. Most are fine. Some just dont get the concept of idle chat.
<Earthling> Been using irc before the dot com days, so I have good experience of lots of users that dont appreciate irc to fullest
<Earthling> Perhaps you know of other random chat channels?
 * ball wonders when the .com era started.
<Earthling> Ball?
<ball> Earthling: #defocus ?
<Earthling> I reckon about 86 and beyond
<Earthling> Thats the one!
<Earthling> Have that on auto join on my amiga
<Earthling> Forgot I have to wait a millenia to be voiced
<funkyHat> Earthling: only if you've not been there for a while (can't remember how long)
<ali1234> ball: 2000
<ali1234> ball: 1995-2000
<Earthling> Yeah your right. Via my phone I havent, so ill have to idle a while
<Earthling> I already said 86 and beyond. :-)
<Azelphur> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/11/mavizens-ttx02-electric-motorcycle-laptop-on-wheels-linux.php?dtc=th_rss_science
<Azelphur> linux, coming to a bike near you \o/
<Earthling> Aze yay hee hee!
<Earthling> I wonder if KITT ran on linux
<ball> KITT ran on a shift register
<Earthling> What is one of those then :-)
<hamitron> I want that bike without the track kit :/
<Earthling> I want my girl friend without the voice box
<hamitron> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-28
<ali1234> this bzr bisect plugin is poop cakes
<ali1234> it just doesn't work at all
<ali1234> no matter which way around i specify "yes" and "no" (the docs don't specify what they mean)
<ali1234> it always wants to compile a revision outside those ranges
<ali1234> also because it is a plugin there is no way for bzr to understand what it is doing
<ali1234> and as a result you can't get bzr to give you any useful information about the "current" revision that bisect is on
<daubers> Morning
<Gary> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<daubers> o/
<MartijnVdS> Great, I try to enable App Engine on my Google account.. and it tells me my phone number has already been used
<daubers> heh
 * daubers reboots his vps
<daubers> Hmm... its not come back up....
<daubers> How odd... looks like my dns being pants
<ali1234> bisecting unity is haaaaaard
<ali1234> it is basically impossible to compile any release except the current one with hacking it to bits
<ali1234> luckily i converted the repo to git as soon as i realised bzr bisect plugin is totally useless
<gord> ali1234, basically yeah nux went through some changes causing problems, we are abi stable now so future stuff won't be too bad, but that doesn't really help now :)
<ali1234> yeah nux patches man
<ali1234> i'm collecting them all up and squashing them into a single commit with git rebase
<ali1234> and then cherry picking them each time i step back
<ali1234> i have no idea how you would even do that with bzr
<ali1234> you probably can't
<ali1234> that IntrusivePtr stuff
<ali1234> i'm nearly back to 4.8.0 and beginning to think maybe the fix i am looking for is actually in nux
<ali1234> i'm back to the point where the unity logo was orange :)
<ali1234> there was a whole series where there were no icons at all...
<ali1234> still not repro'd the bug though
<MartijnVdS> \o/ rain expected in Spa today
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<ali1234> gord: "whatever i did" is not a helpful commit msg :(
<gord> its the *most* helpful
<gord> that kind of stuff should only be in my branch commit log ;) its generally when i'm moving from the laptop to the desktop and need to make a commit so i can move my work over
<gord> just wish there was a way in bzr of doing that without a formal commit
<gord> starting to formalize ideas with using my nas for hosting my code but building locally so i don't have this problem, buuut i'm not sure yet, there are issues
<ali1234> you should switch to git. and by you, i mean all of canonical and ubuntu developers.
<gord> i like bzr more than git :)
<ali1234> then we are all doomed
 * AlanBell wonders how much of Launchpad would break if git was added as a back end
<gord> given that launchpad is in bzr? ;)
<gord> it would certainly be nice if you could host git on launchpad though, but you would need some way of communicating between bzr and git so people can use whatever they want, which would be tricky...
<ali1234> bzr fast-export works, mostly
<Laney> bzr-git git-bzr
<ali1234> (just passed 4.8.2)
<gord> well no i'm thinking handling it all gracefully on the launchpad side
<Laney> just let people handle it themselves
<gord> heh no
<gord> its painful enough maintaining a project with ONE vcs ;)
 * gord notes the list of spies in #u-uk
<zleap> hi
<zleap> i have blacklisted wireless drivers for 11.o4 and am still having shutdown issues, can anyone help please
<zleap> hi
<zleap> hello
<zleap> anyone got more info on how to resolve shutdown issues on 11.04 please
<brobostigon> morning zleap
<zleap> morning
<brobostigon> what does syslog and dmesg say about it?
 * zleap got a emachines er 1401 yesterday
<zleap> erm
<zleap> what am i looking for in dmesg what do i grep for
<brobostigon> no idea, you havent told us what the issue is, other than a shutdown issue.
<zleap> its a known 10.10 and 11.04 issues system hangs when i shutdown, i have tried blacklisting wireless drivers
<zleap> as per this site http://www.harley-jones.co.uk/?p=135
<brobostigon> what is the wireless driver name?
<brobostigon> and are they internel or external to the kernel?
<zleap> hang ion i will try and look
<zleap> brobostigon, i have no idea i  am not that technical
<brobostigon> zleap: if its internal to the kernel, why not make a kernel build, wihtout those drivers that are causing an issue?
<zleap> wlan 802.11 b/g/n
<brobostigon> that is a protocol definaition, not a driver name.
<zleap> i just copied what it said on the system spec
<brobostigon> if you run lsmod, what module name does it say it is using?
<zleap> not sure how do i kjnow which is the wirfelss driver and which is the other wired driver
<zleap> rt2800pci possibly
<brobostigon> is it a pci wifi adaptor?
<zleap> i guess
<zleap> this is a known bug
<brobostigon> is it listed with lspci ?
<zleap> yes
<zleap> oh
<zleap> rt3090
<zleap> so i blacklist that one i guess
<brobostigon> you just said, your wifi adaptor is listed in lspci, therefore it is pci. therefore rt2800pci fitsthe description.
<zleap> k
<brobostigon> hence when you said, you didnt know if it was pci or not, and you didnt know. and i then said, if you seen in it lspci and you said yes.
<zleap> i mis read what you typed
<brobostigon> is that correct?
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> have a look again through lsmod and see if anything else fits the bill?
<zleap> i had a look at the blacklist file adn found a spelling error so have fixed that
<brobostigon> ok.
<zleap> i did fijbnd a site that siad to blakclist a whole load of stuff i just can't find it again
<zleap> i take it this hasn't been fixed yet otherwise there would be some sort of proper patch for it
<brobostigon> you only need to blacklist the driver in practice, that is casuing the issue, hence i said, look through syslog and dmesg, where it would list such issues.
<zleap> i don't really know how or what to look for
<brobostigon> i dont know, i am using debian unstable, and i probebly dont have the hw causing this bug.
<brobostigon> zleap: /var/log is where they are.
<zleap> k
<zleap> k
<zleap> ok i got loads of filkes in /var/log
<brobostigon> zleap: yes, because that folder, contains all the system logs.
<brobostigon> zleap: but syslog and dmesg are the ones you need to look at, including the ones from previous sessions. so you can track down a pattern, at the end of those files.
<zleap> hmm ok found 1x solution suggesting to use 10.04 as with 11,o4 the grahpiucs are not accellerated either
<zleap> so same machine e-machines ER1401
<MartijnVdS> F1 \o/
<zleap> ?
<zleap> ok thanks
<zleap> chat later
 * bigcalm[revo] pokes em
<DJones> Is Cat 6 cable much better than Cat 5e over a 15M length, I'm looking to run a cable from my router to the other end of the house, attach a spare router to extend the wireless range (I've tested it with a short patch cable so I know it works), but just wondering about the type of cable.
<Azelphur> DJones: cat6 is cheap and I have cat6 ran all over my 5 story house
<Azelphur> it copes quite well
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: I doubt there would be much difference over 15m
<TheOpenSourcerer> Are you running GigE or 100Mbps?
<DJones> Thats what I was thinking, although for a couple of Â£'s difference, I may as well get the cat 6 to save changing in future
<Azelphur> my cables are gig but my brother put a crappy router in thats not for no reason :/
<penguin42> 5e will do GigE happily unless you've got really nasty electrical environments
<DJones> Everything is either wireless G or 100Mb, so no immediate benefit of getting cat 6
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah penguin42. The CAT specs are for runs of up to 100mtrs (and it works longer than that) so 15 is well within any limits.
<penguin42> nod
<suprengr> uh oh! UbuntuOne's gone back to refusing to sync pgp encypted files [yawn] whilst claiming otherwise
<Azelphur> DJones: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-Meter-CAT-6-cat6-Ethernet-Network-LAN-Cable-100M-/370357641437?pt=UK_Computing_NetworkingCables_RL&hash=item563b0920dd#ht_795wt_907
<Azelphur> I just bought one of those did the entire house
<Azelphur> probably get it a bit cheaper price comparison shopping, I think I got it for Â£15
<DJones> Probably pick a ready made cable up from maplins tomorrow
<DJones> Don't have the tools for making the cable up anyway
<Azelphur> hehe
<DJones> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> NO! Not Maplins! You will pay an arm and a leg
<directhex> two arms and a foot afaik
<TheOpenSourcerer> 20m Cat6 patch lead Â£9.27 from Fruity Cables. http://www.fruitycables.co.uk/networking-cat6-patch-leads-c-140_21.html
<directhex> reimaged my touchpad with a 2G ext3 partition for debian chroot
<penguin42> directhex: Oh, you're *the* guy who got the cheap one?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Maplins have a 0.5m Cat5e patch lead for Â£5.49. Fruity have the same for... Â£0.36
<directhex> penguin42, of course! the universe *owed* me one
 * StevenR wanted a cheap one :(
<penguin42> ditto
 * TheOpenSourcerer did too.
<penguin42> I suggest we all just sit back and feel pissed at directhex
 * StevenR glares at directhex 
 * TheOpenSourcerer will be feeling pissed later ;-)
<matti> ;/
<directhex> penguin42, how else would i test touch-to-share with my pre3?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bat & Ball evening - Music and socialising with humans.
<suprengr> TheOpenSourcerer, Bat & Ball in which county?
<directhex> /dev/mapper/store-ext3fs
<directhex>                           2.0G     67.1M      1.9G   3% /media/ext3fs
<directhex> :)
<MartijnVdS> \o/?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, new partition for chrooting
<TheOpenSourcerer> suprengr: Surrey: http://www.thebatandball.co.uk/main/
<suprengr> TheOpenSourcerer, doh! ... that's not where they keep the humans!
 * suprengr apologises to anyone in Farnham of course :)
<directhex> installing debian...
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: cheaper would be good, but I suspect fruitycables don't have a local shop I can collect from tomorrow so I can do the work tomorrow while I'm off work
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: Not sure where they are but they post pretty quick. Order now you'd get it on Wed...
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/676648/ is on 10.04.1 Can someone please help me understand the figure 71.4g Any clue please ?
 * zleap is just backing up PC 
<zleap> kaushal, disk size maybe
<zleap> 71.4 giga bytes
<kaushal> ok
<zleap> at a guess how / where is that figure displayed
<kaushal> zleap: not sure i understand your question ?
<kaushal> i see it on top
<zleap> on top of what,  i was asking where that figure is displayed
<kaushal> mysql
<zleap> ok
<kaushal> 4401 mysql     20   0 71.4g  14g 3896 S  117 29.7   2379:51 mysqld
<zleap> ok that could suggest you have 14g (diskspace left) and are using 71.4 gb i really don't know
<kaushal> zleap: its about memory
<kaushal> not disk space
<zleap> ok
<zleap> sorry just realised what you meant by top
<kaushal> Any clue please ?
<zleap> you should have a bar telling you what each column is
<zleap> look at the top of all the colums,
<zleap> PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
<zleap> kaushal,
<directhex> http://twitpic.com/6cp9uj/full :p
<zleap> hi directhex
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: That is just rubbing salt into the wounds of those who failed to grab a cheap Touchpad. Hope you brick it ;-p
<TheOpenSourcerer> :Peven
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer: i'm gonna try & get banshee running now ;p
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<zleap> i just got a emachines 1401 runs 11.04 nicely now i have disabled the wireless driver
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm going to the pub.
<zleap> k
<zleap> i am just backing up my old PC so i can re-install that with 11.04 (classic)
<dwatkins> kaushal: it's the amount of memory used by the process in total, including files mapped and libraries shared by other processes
<daubers> lo
<mgdm> evening
<suprengr> if anyone is bored... I 'd be grateful for a quick proof read of a quick 'n' small text only wiki page [ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/suprengr ] pretty please
<suprengr> daubers,  lo 2 u 2
<AlanBell> suprengr: add a testimonials section
<suprengr> AlanBell, I thought you were swearing till I read that again ;)  ...thanks
<log69> hi all! anybody interested in testing my security related software? this is a 1-click auto MAC configuration solution. every suggestion or opinion is welcome! my site: http://log69.com/tomld_en.html
<HazRPG> ali1234: any joy with the bisect?
<HazRPG> ali1234: (just been reading the bug feed)
 * daubers plays silly games for half an hour and will then try and get mosquitto to replicate
<directhex> http://twitpic.com/6cqm9n/full
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu One Developer Evening In Manchester On Thursday - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/08/28/ubuntu-one-developer-evening-in-manchester-on-thursday/
<daubers> kazade: Confused by your gnome3/unity tweet?
<Earthling> I love uk. Good job I live here
<ball> I love the UK too, but I have to live elsewhere.
<Earthling> Unity is lame
<Earthling> Unity is a shame!
<ball> I think I read somewhere that "Unity is a work in progress"
<daubers> I tend to prefer Unity over standard gnome these days (2 or 3). Still need to retry working with KDE again at some point
<ball> I prefer Xfce to Unity.
<ball> I think my users will find it less confusing
<daubers> Been a while since I used xfce, does it cope well with small screens?
<ball> daubers: I don't think I've tried it on a netbook.
<daubers> Hmmm... I've got unity 2d on a little eee 701 but wondered if xfce would be happier
<hamitron> stop caring about the feelings of xfce, and think about the user
<Earthling> Ball :-) hello again
<hamitron> ;)
<Earthling> Hamitron
<hamitron> Earthling :)
<gord> daubers, single panel, but non of the nice additions ubuntu has worked on over the years for small screens, like the maximised mode and stuff
<Earthling> Troll lol
<hamitron> Earthling: meh, was joking :/
<Earthling> Its
<ball> hamitron: ?
<Earthling> Ham im with you dont worry
<Earthling> Everything else smells funny
<hamitron> can the xfce panel be made to appear at the side?
<daubers> gord: I was surprised unity actually ran on the 701 (i.e. non-2d) didn't think it had a good enough gfx chip in it
<Earthling> Probably with a little tweak
<gord> daubers, heh neat :)
<daubers> gord: It was a touch.... jittery and slow, but given patience it was ok. 2D seems much happier on it
<Earthling> Hamitron I like meat
<daubers> gord: Am having some weird issues in Oneiric (well one...). Sometimes chrome will not become the active window. So it has focus but won't come to the foreground, so no menu in the global menu and the window on top is in the way
<daubers> but it happens irregularly and I can't reproduce it every time
<gord> daubers, thats weird, i thought i noticed something like that once a few weeks ago with another app, will have to keep an eye out
<daubers> gord: if it happens again I'll try and yell
<daubers> (with it playing up)
<czajkowski> aloha
<diplo> evening all
<daubers> czajkowski: o/
<daubers> czajkowski: How is ireland?
<czajkowski> nice
<czajkowski> very wet n windy
<czajkowski> daubers: hows you?
<daubers> czajkowski: I'm good \o/ Having a baking/preserving spree tomorrow
<czajkowski> yay
<czajkowski> daubers: are the videos all done ?
 * mgdm tinkers with Fedora and GNOME3
<daubers> czajkowski: Got about 3 to upload, then the live show
<mgdm> this might not end well :P
<czajkowski> daubers: sweet
<AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/OggCampVideos loadsa videos
<czajkowski> daubers: that's very fast
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ello
<AlanBell> http://blip.tv/show/772977 <- the blip channel
<AlanBell> ello czajkowski
<daubers> czajkowski: It's..... ok. I think I've got a process for next year, but need to play with gstreamer to see if I can do something with it
<AlanBell> missing the UK yet?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: some things :)
<daubers> Ahh... mosquitto python bindinds don't yet support user/password auth
<czajkowski> daubers: hopefully by next year I'll speak slower...
<czajkowski> though a week back home I'm back to normal speeds :D
<daubers> czajkowski: We'll have to try and make sure there's plenty of opportunity for you to practice
<czajkowski> :/
<czajkowski> indeed
 * daubers orders a new soldering iron tip
 * suprengr passes Darael 
 * suprengr passes daubers a virtual [but veryt used] soldering iron tip 
<daubers> suprengr: Mine been over used :) Much too oxidised to be safeuly used now :( Need to get a new one and some tinning stuff
 * suprengr smells virtual flux wafting through IRC
<MartijnVdS> so THAT's what flux capacitors are for!
<daubers> MartijnVdS: No silly, flux capacitors are for sending you to the land of the dinosaurs
<MartijnVdS> daubers: ok, but that's how they work then.
<daubers> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2FLdPqlnsQ
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sean_reiser/2332137040/
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Oh dear
<suprengr> so... the LHC has disproved the SuperSymmetry theory.  thank all the gods for that... my mirror could have told them that yonks ago [every time that ugly so'n'so stares back at me in the morning]!
<daubers> suprengr: It's not completley disproved it, it's just more unlikely than it was before
<daubers> suprengr: It's really quite an interesting result, as it asks an awful lot more questions
 * daubers loves things that result in the need for new physics
<suprengr> daubers, "not completely"? not if you'd seen *my* mirror in the morning!
<daubers> suprengr: That's not supersymmetry, that's just plain old fashioned reflection
<hamitron> hehe suprengr
<suprengr> daubers, nope! thats just plain old fashoioned ugly so'n'so looking in the mirror
<hamitron> that or maybe we got a faulty batch? where you buy yours from?
<hamitron> ;)
<daubers> suprengr: tbh I'm more interested in QFT as _that_ is an amazingly beautiful piece of physics
<suprengr> QFT/ as in "Quich Fix Thickies"?
<daubers> Quantum Field Theory, supersymmetry was postulated as a metho of solving some of the problems in QFT
<daubers> s/metho/method
<hamitron> so it wasn't "quick f*ing theory" made on a Friday afternoon? :-o
<suprengr> oh - that other QFT... now you're talking proper science
<suprengr> *that* QFT exists [&
<suprengr> [&don't forget - I come from another planet - and can prove it]
<ali1234> supersymmetry was never "real physics" anyway
<daubers> suprengr: Supersymmetry was an interesting postulate. Mathematically very nice. Nature's generally not so nice
 * suprengr agrees
<hamitron> well, all above my head tbh :/
<hamitron> so
 * hamitron agrees
<ali1234> well you don't need to worry about that now, because it was wrong anyway
<ali1234> so one thing less to worry about
<suprengr> hamitron, above your head is a) the heat from your brain ...& [light years beyond that] my planet ;)
 * daubers heads to bed
<suprengr> nitie nite daubers
<hamitron> you tired him out
<hamitron> :/
<suprengr> ;)
<suprengr> to those who work at LHC, a quick word in your ear... *look to your left now*
<suprengr> ...too late - missed it
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] The Box - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/08/28/the-box/
<freakyclown> i should check my Cern account still works
<andres-kain> hello all, thanks for the help yesterday.(changing login splash screen) I ended up simply doing sudo gimp and saving the image I wanted with the same name.
<andres-kain> did the same for the plymouth image.
<andres-kain> Seems to work ok.
<andres-kain> but now I have a new question: I need to compile windows dll in linux.
<andres-kain> i am told i need a cross compiler.
<andres-kain> any recomendations?
<hamitron> I've never done it, but think you need to look at mingw32
<hamitron> hopefully someone else will know more
<hamitron> :)
<andres-kain> yep heard ming mentioned in http://wiki.jswindle.com/index.php/Compiling_Wine_dlls_for_Windows#Linux:_Cross_compiling_using_MinGW
<andres-kain> Thanks hamitron !
<andres-kain> IÂ´ll wait a bit see if someone else has any suggestions.
<hamitron> np, not really much help ;)
<czajkowski> bug 806611
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 806611 could not be found
<andres-kain> installing gcc-ming32 this compiler buisness is so new to me.
<suprengr> 	:-R
<suprengr> ... & then goes for much needed zzzz's nitie nite all o/
<penguin42> anyone happen to know how much space is needed for a KDE build?
<Azelphur> anyone know what i can do to diagnose an X freeze?
<Azelphur> the display isnt updating, but i can move my mouse around
<Azelphur> X is using 100% cpu
<Azelphur> i also cant switch to a tty but ssh works
<Azelphur> read the x freeze documentation and it says if x is 100% cpuing or the freeze ends at some point its probably not an x freeze
<Azelphur> my freezes usually end after a while and x is 100%ing right now
<Azelphur> says it would be a client application but doesnt mention anything further :(
<penguin42> Azelphur: anything in dmesg?
<Azelphur> nope
<penguin42> Azelphur: also any errors at the bottom of /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
<Azelphur> oooo, yes there is
<Azelphur> relevant stuff too :D
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/676882/
<penguin42> what?
<Azelphur> thats mentioned on the wiki about freezes too
<Azelphur> although it doesnt say much for me, just that its common on nouveau (im on proprietary)
<penguin42> huh motion event stuff - there was a problem on the Intel drivers somewhere in that which got fixed post natty release
<Azelphur> yea im on nvidia
<penguin42> natty?
<Azelphur> yep
<penguin42> have you got natty-updates in ?
<Azelphur> i do normal updates
<Azelphur> dont think i have any of the new stuff enabled
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-20
<zumo> AMD Athlon 64 X2
<penguin42> ah yes, that's nicer
<zumo> I refuse to spend Â£70 for a new board though
<penguin42> and ram
<zumo> The PC i linked to comes with a dual core processor, and its faster plus the ram HDD and everythuing else
<zumo> Its cheaper to buy a new machine
<zumo> and I can't get my head around it
<zumo> I've alsways had it drummed in that its cheaper to build than to buy
<penguin42> zumo: those ones from ebuyer are doing very well - I hate to think how; but don't forget that those chips are combined everything; so that's GPU and CPU on one chip
<zumo> Yea but id add my own gpu probally. Even if I didn,t It would be a decent general use PC
<zumo> Better than what im using without a doubt
<penguin42> well it's a 6xxx series GPU, so it's not going to be bad
<zumo> Someone install the CPU for me.
<penguin42> haha
<zumo> Dealing with great thermal paste in a white tshirt
<zumo> Probally not my best idea
<zumo> Anyone know much on ram timings?
<zumodoki> What varient of ubuntu are you guys using and why?
<bigcalm_xoom> Good morning peeps :-)
<DJones> Morning ll
<DJones> all
<Myrtti> gm
<DJones> Morning Myrtti
<AlanBell> morning
<diplo> Morning
<daubers> Morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait :)
<JamesTait> brobostigon: o/
<brobostigon> o/
<hoover> morning all
<oimon> morning
<christel> morning oimon
<oimon> the oggcamp hangover in here, very quiet
<brobostigon> morning oimon and christel
<christel> hello brobostigon \o/
<brobostigon> \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all.
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<oimon> hmm http://www.cultofandroid.com/14793/the-slide-out-qwerty-lives-pre-order-the-motorola-photon-4g-lte-from-wirefly-for-149-99/
<oimon> wonder if typing on real keys would be as fast as swyping
<AlanBell> I would like that
<oimon> yeah, turns a consumption device into a 2 way computer
<oimon> oh, it looks a bit like zx81 keys
<oimon> http://cdn.androidcommunity.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/P1100039-540x405.jpg
<AlanBell> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/technology-video/9483884/Asus-Transformer-Pad-Infinity-tablet-with-keyboard-hands-on-review.html want one of those, running Ubuntu
<oimon> my sister is evaulating tablets for her school to buy 20 for use in a pool. not sure what to recommend
<oimon> she uses flash websites a lot, but adobe kind of scuppered that
<ali1234> waterproof ones?
<oimon> badhum chish
<brobostigon> oimon: you can still get the apk, just import it, and intall.
<oimon> yeah, but i'm not the tech support in the school
<brobostigon> install*
<brobostigon> ah.
<oimon> and no guarantees
<AlanBell> oimon: XO-3 is on the way (delayed, but will happen at some point)
<oimon> she is trialling a galaxy 10.1 atm
<oimon> apparently the school can get those quite cheap
<oimon> but one with hdmi out would be cool
<brobostigon> samsung have a non-standard skin ontop of android dont they. ?
<oimon> ah, i think it has it, but just needs an aadapter
<oimon> brobostigon, looked androidy to me
<brobostigon> oimon: it will be android, i mean, they adapt and change it, from aosp.
<oimon> they add some widgets and apps
<oimon> like a nice weather app and home screen
<brobostigon> ok, i thought, when i looked at one for my mum, there were more differences, ohwell.
<brobostigon> i use beautiful widgets, for my weather widget.
<ali1234> samsung have touchwiz, htc has touchflow
<oimon> i use aix weather app, which is brilliant
<ali1234> they both suck
<oimon> http://www.fivedollarfinds.com/micro-sonic-grenade/ lol
<oimon> not sure what the real world use is of this
<mgdm> I thought HTC had Sense? Has that changed since I had a Desire?
<ali1234> oh yeah
<ali1234> who is touchflow then?
<mgdm> Oh, HTC too, but on WinMo, apparently
<brobostigon> oimon: i am just looking up that weather widget you mentioned, it looks nice.
<ali1234> ah yeah touchflow is a htc shell for windows mobile that has kinetic scrolling like iphone/android
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
 * daubers requires chocolate... but has none :(
 * brobostigon only has three blocks of his favorite chocolate left, sorry/
<oimon> brobostigon, it's very reliable for planning when it will rain etc
<oimon> one of my favourite apps, plus the calendar app jorte
<brobostigon> oimon: ah, thank you.
<DJones> After the start to the day I've had, I've already gone through 2 bars of chocolate
<Flashtek> lol
<DJones> One broken file server, 2 virus laden desktops and broken window lock all left for me to deal with
<DJones> And, I'm not even responsible for any of them
<DJones> File server broke on Friday night, none of the staff in work on the saturday even bothered to report to IT support, not exactly sure what any of them did for the day apart from sit & twiddle their thumbs whistling and looking innocent
<mattt> DJones: :P
<DJones> The only bright side to it, its one of the directors computers thats got a virus on it, at least I can tell him off for downloading goat pron
<mattt> eek
<brobostigon> lol
<daubers> UK2 are the suckiest
<GregR1969> Thud3rstruck?
<oimon> anyone using gnome shell and have monitors in an up/down formation rather than side by side?
<GregR1969> quit
<GregR1969> exit
<oimon> can't drag windows from bottom screen to top
<AlanBell> you ok there GregR1969?
<GregR1969> yeah Alan..thanks been that long since I used X d IRD on 'nix I forgot how to logout of here
<GregR1969> IRC even
<AlanBell> probably needs more of a / in front of it
<AlanBell> and /part is the thing to close a channel
<diplo> Anyone know ramifications of restarting rsyslog on a live box ?
<davmor2> Man see how quiet it is on here when everyone is suffering from ogglag :D
<oimon> was there an oggflu this year?
<popey> i dont think so
<davmor2> popey: the one big plus for this year is Pete Canon now likes Steven Fry \o/
<oimon> is updating to nvidia 304 drivers on 12.04 :S
<oimon> it would take a lot for me to like stephen fry
<oimon> maybe scrapping QI and doing a funny new series of blackadder might persuade
<popey> what's wrong with fry?
<AlanBell> popey: is the video released now?
<oimon> it went wrong when people started listening to what he had to say
<oimon> people think he's this enormously clever guy or liberal commentator
<davmor2> oimon: it would take a lot for you to like anything ;)
<oimon> au contraire
<oimon> however not many of those things happen to fall in the populist camp
<oimon> i enjoyed the olympics muchly though
<davmor2> but oimon all we eva! here from you is complaints about everything :D
<oimon> thats cos it's irc
<oimon> fb feed is full of joy and fun
<oimon> last opinion i shared " let me just say that owncloud is flipping awesome"
<oimon> i like linux though
<oimon> new nvidia drivers seemed to run OK
<oimon> was scared for a moment there
<davmor2> muhahahahah  on startup USC is using 1262.5% of the cpu :D
<jacobw> davmor2: ubuntu software center?
<davmor2> jacobw: Yeap
<davmor2> jacobw: most apps are the same it just tickled me to see it :D
 * jacobw coalesces leisurely
<davmor2> popey: do you happen to have a spare quantal laptop knocking about?
<popey> desktop, not laptop
<popey> why?
<davmor2> needs power and battery to test
<popey> sorry, no
<davmor2> popey: I have found an odd issue on my laptop, with the power attached when the laptop hit sleep/blank screen I can move the mouse and I'm back at the desktop no unlock password, same thing on battery I get the password request
<n1md4> Just me, or with 12.04 did anyone *have* to install aptitude ... if only to have fewer binaries!
<jacobw> n1md4: i don't understand
<davmor2> jacobw: I'm with you
<n1md4> jacobw: Not really worth explaining ;>
<jacobw> i haven't used aptitude much
<jacobw> i appreciate the smaller command space :)
<popey> n1md4, aptitude isn't installed by default anymore on desktop
<JamesTait> OK folks, I'm wrapping up for today.
<JamesTait> Got to go and buy a USB keyboard for the new Raspberry Pi. :)
<JamesTait> And some parts for the car. :(
 * JamesTait waves
<brobostigon> o/
<JamesTait> 'night all!
<christel> bai bai JamesTait <3
<jacobw> o/ christel
<christel> heeey jacobw :D
<jacobw> still on holiday?
<christel> yeah :)
<christel> bit bored of it now mind and quite homesick if truth be told
<jacobw> :(
<jacobw> the guys in the UK must be looking forward to having you back
<christel> i bet they're not, haters the lot of them!
<davmor2> christel: Hello
<christel> HELLO LOVELY LOVELY davmor2 person <3<3<3
<davmor2> christel: Oh that's worrying you're a being nice and b calling me a person.............What do you want?
<davmor2> :D
<christel> hahaha
<christel> how did you know i was after something? am i *that* transparent? :P
<Pendulum> davmor2: it's because I wasn't around most of the weekend so no one was feeding extra her sense of self-importance ;)
<davmor2> Pendulum: you'd better make up for it then :D
<christel> hahaha
<zleap> how do i figure out what software is playing an audio file
<zleap> something is, as i can hear it but its not in my lubuntu panel
<davmor2> zleap: run ps aux in a full screen terminal
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> just ran top
<zleap> it was banchee,  but didn't appear anywhere to suggest it was running
<davmor2> zleap: is there an audio indicator if so it might be docked in there
<zleap> nope
<zleap> some applications show up,  some don't
<davmor2> zleap: nice
<davmor2> Moo from my s3
<zleap> hi
<gneel> Evening
<davmor2> Hello
<zleap> evening
<Azelphur> grrrr, my machine keeps turning the volume down randomly
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> gremlins
<zleap> is it me or does Linux have some built in weird randomness
<Azelphur> indeed
<gneel> I'm having a problem with language-pack-gnome-en-base
<zleap> incluide <annoy_user.h>
<zleap> lol
<zleap> include <annoy_user.h>
<zleap> hi simondbull
<gneel> I have a file that seems to be corrupted and it's preventing the upgrade of the package. Any ideas how I can proceed?
<simondbull> zleap: hi
<zleap> hi
<zleap> hmm
<simondbull> zleap: how are you?
<zleap> gneel, the only way i ahve fixed package issues when i get told there are inconsistancies is to edit a file
<zleap> simondbull, i am good thanks
<gneel> ~$ ls -l /usr/share/locale-langpack/en@shaw/LC_MESSAGES/m*
<gneel> ls: cannot access /usr/share/locale-langpack/en@shaw/LC_MESSAGES/mousetweaks.mo: Input/output error
<gneel> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 89357 May 10 01:23 /usr/share/locale-langpack/en@shaw/LC_MESSAGES/metacity.mo
<zleap> ok thast is different i thought you meant with installing stuff
<gneel> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  89357 May 10 01:23 metacity.mo
<gneel> -????????? ? ?    ?         ?            ? mousetweaks.mo
<simondbull> zleap: good to hear :)
<zleap> gneel, that def does not look healthy
<zleap> gneel, can you remove the packagfe that belongs to and re-install it
<gneel> A bug got logged at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-pack-gnome-en-base/+bug/1035940
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1035940 in language-pack-gnome-en-base (Ubuntu) "package language-pack-gnome-en-base 1:12.04+20120508 failed to install/upgrade: unable to stat `./usr/share/locale-langpack/en@shaw/LC_MESSAGES/mousetweaks.mo' (which I was about to install): Input/output error" [Undecided,New]
<gneel> No.
<zleap> ok
<gneel> I've tried removing it
<jacobw> gneel: your're s
<gneel> I've tried reinstalling it
<gneel> I've tried upgrading it.
<jacobw> gneel: you're seeing a filesystem error there, which may be caused by the underlying block device
<jacobw> gneel: i.e. unless it
<zleap> ok going back to what i said earlier its sources.list  that holds info onpackages
<zleap> in /etc/apt
<jacobw> gneel: unless it's a filesystem error, it's a disk erro
<gneel> jacobw: should I try a fsck then?
<jacobw> yes
<gneel> OK thanks. I'll try that.
<zleap> jacobw, don't you fsck on unmounted filesystems
 * zleap isn't sure but mentioned it 
<gneel> Yep, I'll have to reboot to do it
<zleap> ok
<jacobw> um, yes, i assume people do :)
<gneel> I'm going to use a live USB to do it.
<zleap> ah good plan
<jacobw> you can schedule an fsck on next boot
<gneel> You can check a read-only filesystem, but you have to be very careful.
<gneel> jacobw: how?
<Darael> It's /possible/ to fsck a mounted filesytem.  It's just usually a bad idea.
<gneel> I've heard of that but don't know how.
<zleap> gneel, bestnot to over complicate things and do it safely and unmount i guess
<jacobw> `touch /forcefsck`
<gneel> jacobw: thanks.
<gneel> bye all, hope my disk is OK!
<jacobw> good luck :)
<Azelphur> yep, this is ultra annoying
<Azelphur> trying to listen to music, volume keeps randomly setting itself to 0
<jacobw> ha
<Azelphur> I even tried going totally hands free, not touching the keyboard or mouse at all, and waiting, and it still sets it to 0 randomly haha
<jacobw> if the volume is being set by pulseaudio, you could watch dbus for a trigger
<Azelphur> jacobw: how do I do that?
<jacobw> check what pulseaudio thinks the volume is when it happens
<Azelphur> jacobw: I'm watching alsamixer, it does set itself to 0
<jacobw> pulseaudio can drive alsamixer
<Azelphur> :)
<jacobw> i'm not sure how to watch dbus messages only for pulseaudio, dbus-monitor watches dbus for you
<jacobw> my knowledge of dbus thins after this point :)
<jacobw> poke ali1234
<ali1234> hey, did pirate pay up yet?
<Azelphur> ali1234: not yet I think
<Azelphur> jacobw: http://pastebin.com/UD1KwPDr
<gneel> jacobw: Thanks for the tip, the file is now listable by ls.
<gneel> jacobw: I'll try the update now and see what happens.
<gneel> Wahey! It's fixed.
<jacobw> Azelphur: what command did you use for that?
<jacobw> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/Developer/Clients/DBus
<jacobw> man dbus-monitor
<jacobw> i'd look around for similar bug reports before i started trying to listen to dbus though :)
<yothsoggoth> can anybody recommend a decent (cheap) monitor that has DVI, VGA and HDMI inputs (< Â£100)?
<AlanBell> get an hdmi to dvi adapter and drop HDMI from your requirements
<yothsoggoth> I want sound through the HDMI as well though, usually the ones that come with HDMI also have built-in speakers (although they're probably crap speakers, that doesn't bother me too much)
<yothsoggoth> at the moment I have 3 screens on my desk, 2 monitors for my PC and 1 tv for the Xbox, so I was hoping to reduce to having 2 monitors, one that has HDMI so I can use it for the Xbox, too.
<AlanBell> makes sense
<yothsoggoth> it's been so long since I bought a monitor, I have no idea which are good/bad
<KrimZon> I have a phillips c-line with vga and hdmi - my graphics card came with an adapter from dvi to hdmi
<KrimZon> the monitor doesn't have any vesa mount - the cables go in the base and it's like a laptop monitor on its own stand
<KrimZon> the screen's a bit wobbly but you have to touch the screen to wobble it when it's on a sturdy desk, and the controls are in the base
<KrimZon> model name: Brilliance 224CL
<KrimZon> also it's 21.5" 1920x1080
<popey> yothsoggoth, i bought philips 234EL, i have two on my desk, they have all 3 inputs
<yothsoggoth> popey: Does it have speakers?
<popey> yeah, not great ones
<yothsoggoth> but bareable?
<popey> i rarely if ever use them
<popey> i paid 120 for it
<popey> ex vat
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/242578
<yothsoggoth> looks pretty good, but it seems nowhere sells it anymore :(
<popey> yeah, i bought mine in may
<popey> i guess it was end of line
<yothsoggoth> yeahh, but I'll keep a look out for similar ones, or newer Philips ones
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Philips-234EL2SB-23-Widescreen-LCD-Monitor-Black-/180954137004?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_Monitors&hash=item2a21b501ac
<popey> yeah, I'm sure they have comparable models
<yothsoggoth> I found this one earlier, but I've never really heard of BENQ so I'm unsure of the quality
<yothsoggoth> http://www.ebuyer.com/387395-gw2250hm-21-5-led-1920x1080-vga-dvi-hdmi-speakers-black-9h-l8mlb-qbe
<yothsoggoth> The reviews say it's good, but there aren't too many
<popey> BENQ are quite popular
<popey> they've been around a few years now, used to be quite low end stuff
<popey> they're building up their brand
<popey> it used to be part of Acer
<dogmatic69> anyone know how to make NEF (nikon raw files) show thumbnails?
<yothsoggoth> I see. Any horror stories about them? If not I may consider that one
<popey> not personally
<dogmatic69> I checked gconf-editor and all is enabled. 12.04 btw
<popey> but I generally just read amazon reviews for stuff I buy
<popey> if there's no reviews I usually avoid
<yothsoggoth> Yeahh same usually. There's only 4 reviews on eBuyer. I'll see if I can find the same monitor somewhere else
<popey> no reviews for that model on amazon
<popey> nice and cheap tho
<popey> I'd probably take a punt on that tbh
<popey> nice narrow bezel
<yothsoggoth> Yeah, I found positive reviews for a similar model on amazon. I might give it a go
<popey> schwuk_away, happy birthday old man!
<dogmatic69> bah. had to resort to imagemagick so I can see what images I got :/
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-21
<AlanBell> yothsoggoth: I have a BENQ projector that I am quite happy with
<mattt> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<mattt> yo diplo
<oimon> guys, i'm getting Enter password for keyring "default" to unlock.  - however isn't that usually my logon passwd?
<diplo> yeah, friend had that.. can't remember the fix but their defo is one :)
<BigRedS> usually
<diplo> Something got out of sync i think from memory
<BigRedS> they can get disconnected, it's pretty common
<BigRedS> I can't remember how to re-sync them but it shouldn't be much of a google away
<oimon> hmm, i just needed to sleep on it. i got the password today
<oimon> part of my problem is that my setup is a botch up of lubuntu+cinnamon. i should probably just install mint and be done
<BigRedS> nah, I've done some pretty daft things with my DEs and had a working keyring...
<oimon> yeah but lubuntu is a bit minimal and sometimes certain featuers don't appear due to lack of the right package
<oimon> hands up anyone who got more than 5hrs sleep last night?
 * BigRedS raises hand
<BigRedS> I think
 * oimon glares
 * BigRedS looks smug
<oimon> was in bed for 10 hrs but sleep didn't come easily
<BigRedS> Ah, I was exhausted
<BigRedS> that helped
<DJones> O/
<popey> morning
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/165847_256318177805327_1773261989_n.jpg
<oimon> this is my life http://dilbert.com/fast/2012-05-24
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<DJones> Heh, we've got IT support in dealing with some viruses on a couple of machines, he was saying he knows of a business that had 85 out 300 machines all go down with the same virus over the weekend, all I can say is Ouch, that must have been fun fixing
<oimon> still happens then?
<oimon> seems like 2005 since i had to deal with worm outbreaks
<diplo> oimon: I was about to say the same thing
<oimon> my boss had a laptop that he took home and was on a certain 10mb broadband where all users were catching 1-day old viruses that the antivir couldn't handle yet
<diplo> I've not had that in years
<oimon> he would come in on a monday and infect the whole office
<diplo> I had someone come to me yesterday with internet not working
<diplo> Bloody mcaffee again sending out broken dat files which broke the internet connection
<oimon> i've become a little naive since using ubuntu full time
<DJones> Yep, seems like its a new virus doing the rounds, none of the AV softwares are detecting it yet, it delivers by drive by just from an email preview and comes in 3 parts, each part is individually safe, its only when it it installs part 1 that the other 2 parts get installed by it and create the virus and the AV software then starts trying to delete & can't because it recreates/blocks the AV
<oimon> well, naive in that although i don't trust a windows machine to login to any websites..
<oimon> DJones, what's the attach vector? ie? java? flash?
<DJones> I'm not sure, I'm going to find out which virus it is and have a read up in a bit
 * oimon is wondering how peiople use IBM in datacenters. i have to reseat the blades manually a lot
<diplo> Having staff to do it for them I guess, most people pay for a peen to look after racks dont they ?
<oimon> remote hands are quite Â£Â£
<oimon> our other DC is rented space
<oimon> and 40km away
<oimon> and then when you pop the blade in, it takes 15 mins to "discover" and over 5 mins to get past POST
<diplo> The post part on most of our servers was the part that scared me when working remotely
<diplo> Our files server got so bad I drove in from home before it finished posting/booting :P
<DJones> oimon: Not found out the name of the virus yet, IT guy said it removes services
<diplo> I dont understand viruses like that tbh
<diplo> Destructive viruses stopped years ago, most are now about collecting info
<oimon> yeah the ones that replaces sections of a web page are scary
<oimon> and if you wanna get a name for being an awesome coder you just write an app or OSS
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diplo> oimon: Or write a virus that takes over the worlds computers like Sasser etc, that was on the news / everything
<oimon> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning oimon
<DJones> How stupid are some people http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2012/august/20/car_fire.aspx I can't believe that Firefighters have even had to give a warning about this, the driver of the car should be a candidate for a Darwin award
<diplo> hah, #linux is trending on G+ and one of the pictures is rather good shot of a ladies ahem
<diplo> My new background I think
<diplo> :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Cute :-D
<diplo> heh
<oimon> anyone actively using any apps from the showdown comp? i'm using lightread now
<popey> looks nice, not tried it yet
<diplo> Used lightread for a while and another one
<diplo> Had some issues with it timing out and not remembered to open it since
<oimon> it replaced liferea
<DJones> oimon: The virus in question was this one http://www.microsoft.com/security/portal/Threat/Encyclopedia/Entry.aspx?Name=Trojan%3AWin32%2FSirefef.AL
<diplo> Avoid downloading pirated software.
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Due to the severe consequences associated with this threat, you may need to reinstall your Windows operating system and other computer programs, and restore your files and data from backup if the Sirefef infection fails to be resolved.
<diplo> Recommending reinstalling, quite strong really :/
<directhex> microsoft making a "nuke it" recommendation? that's pretty extreme
<DJones> Very harsh, the support guy had to go direct to the AV supplier & get specialist tools from them to clear it
<DJones> He's just been running AV on the directors computer, Symantic found 97 infections, he's running a 2nd one and thats found an additional 17 infections
<DJones> And thats the director responsible for IT in the company
<diplo> lol DJones, not very good group policies at your place then
<diplo> Before I left my last place I had locked everything down, nothing could be installed unless they spoke to us
<diplo> Not sure if they are still using it though, I just got fed up of it all.
<directhex> i'd be surprised if we had any viruses at our company
<popey> hjnnaqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqkiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiixs
<popey> thanks cat
<diplo> heh, all linux boxes directhex ?
<DJones> diplo: Not really, saying that, people aren't alowed to use the computers for personal use, aren't allowed to install things etc, just nobody does anything and the IT policies generally are a joke
<directhex> diplo, yes
<diplo> I run both at work, but I still can't remember the last time I got a virus
<diplo> Probably 5-6 years plus
<diplo> yeah our policies were the same DJones but noone including bosses took any notice, so I just took it upon myself to stop them :D
<diplo> Wasn't the most liked near the time I left, but did it stop lot's of issues
<dwatkins> popey: still no Paw Sense, then? ;)
<oimon> i wonder how the director got the virus
<oimon> PHB clicks an email? or downloads something..
<DJones> diplo: Luckily, I'm not in IT, I look after my own computer and thats it, everyone else can go to Windows Hell since thats all we've got, even the file servers are obsolete
<dwatkins> oimon: perhaps through a webpage
<DJones> oimon: click first, think later
<diplo> ah yeah, you're in the finance dept aren't you ?
<diplo> I think the majority of malware/viruses are now coming via JS related stuff now ( Facebook etc )
<popey> dwatkins, seems not
<DJones> The virus was a drive buy, you didn't even need to click on it to open it, it can infect from just a preview
<dwatkins> popey: it would be handy (and amusing)
<dwatkins> <popey> My cat is currently walking on the keyboard, and Ubuntu AntiPaws has locked my screen to stop me typing lots of nonsense
<popey> hah
<diplo> I  used to follow someone on Twitter whos 4 year old used to nick her phone and write nonsense on her twitter feed
<dwatkins> Sounds better than many Twitter feeds I've read.
<davmor2> Morning all
<oimon> DJones, sounds like an ie vulnerability then? i'd like to know if there's a specific patch that is supposed to block this
<DJones> I suspect its come in via MS Outlook
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski with a big pointy proddy stick
<oimon> shhh
<oimon> are drivers of council cage trucks allowed to take them home with them?
<Flashtek> oimon: I suspect it depends on the LA
<davmor2> oimon: depends on the council,  Some stipulate that you must have lunch back at the depot, some stipulate that you have lunch while you are out to save coming into the depot to go back out again
<oimon> how about overnight?
<Flashtek> depends on la
<oimon> every night this week the alarm has been going off multiple times per night
<Flashtek> call them up and ask
<oimon> my experience of local councils is they don't know/don't care what dept you need to talk to
<Flashtek> ok, when it goes off next time, dial 101 and tell them
<popey> i love my local council
<popey> they're freaking awesome
<davmor2> oimon: Again some do some don't on the whole not, but there exceptions, ie if their car is off the road and they need to get to work etc they maybe able to drive a van that has no tools on it for example
<Flashtek> mine vary
<oimon> he's not exactly an approachable guy so it makes things worse
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<czajkowski> popey: me and mrevell will be in on Friday in the office if you're about
<popey> ok
<xr1rr> What is the best way to go about creating a server for mainly storage
<xr1rr> It will have a big images mainly iso images for download
<oimon> hmm how are the side buttons on my mouse configured? in thunderbird they switch between older and newer messages, but no options in the gui
<xr1rr> An I need to be able to use wget to get/update the files often
<BigRedS> oimon: they're normally back and forward
<BigRedS> I can't remember how to configure them in this crazy post-1999 world
<BigRedS> xr1rr: get something with big disks, install an http server
<xr1rr> First idea was to use s3, but i have to download files locally and then upload and this is time wasting
<oimon> ooh https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ManyButtonsMouseHowto
<xr1rr> one server is most likely to crash with traffic downloading the files tho?
<BigRedS> that depends on what sort of traffic you're expecting
<oimon> depends what you're up to , but S3 is Â£Â£Â£
<BigRedS> you've not really given us any details
<xr1rr> the files will be around 800mb and around 100 downloads per day
<BigRedS> if they're largely static a CDN is probably what you're after
<BigRedS> unless all or most of  your visitors are geographically close to each other
<xr1rr> Another idea is to use bittorrent to save on bandwidth costs but I still need one good seed
<xr1rr> I found this site; Feral Hosting anyone know about them?
<Flashtek> not i
<BigRedS> Anyone know if I can delegate HTTP auth? So permit access to page X if the credentials supplied will let me log in to page Y?
<BigRedS> heh. ideally in lighty. That's not going to happen :)
<xr1rr> So is the downloading on big files likely to crash a small server, or is it likely to just die because of network speeds
<BigRedS> but I guess I could use mod_perl to do it
<BigRedS> you're likely to saturate your connection before Apache cares too much
<BigRedS> so, people will stop being able to connect because your provider wont let them, rather than because your web server has crashed
<xr1rr> ok
<Flashtek> xr1rr: you're dealing with multiple big file downloads yes ?
<xr1rr> yes
<Flashtek> bittorrent
<Flashtek> and host on a vps
<xr1rr> Ok, but I still need a server to act as main seed right?
<Flashtek> i would recomment Bytemark
<Flashtek> indeed
<penguin42> me too
<xr1rr> How would the best way be to setup this
<xr1rr> Would I use apache an use it as a normal server setup or setup it as a torrent server
<BigRedS> I'd install a web server to serve a web page explaining what's going on and to serve the torrent file (or magnet link or whatever), and install a torrent thingy on it to be a main seed
<BigRedS> I use rtorrent
<oimon> out of interest xr1rr what's the iso for ? a linux distro?
<xr1rr> Yes alot of the iso's are linux distro's and a few other opensource things
<oimon> but custom ones rather than just providing a mirror?
<xr1rr> both. i am trying to make a search engine for linux distros and allowing them to directly download them
<davmor2> thanks god for backups
<davmor2> and realises he needs to do them more frequently :D
<popey> xr1rr, isn't that going to eat bandwidth?
<xr1rr> yep thats my problem
<xr1rr> storage and bandwidth
<popey> also, what's the issue you're trying to solve?
<diplo> I was about to ask the same question
<oimon> i think it's called distrowatch
<xr1rr> similar to distrowatch yes
<oimon> you don't need to host the isos
<diplo> Just link to the distro pages etc
<oimon> since the distro creators already do a great job of providing resilient and safe place
<diplo> and *they* pay the bandwith charges
<xr1rr> yes but some of the smaller distro's have problems with providing stable downloads
<xr1rr> and with paying for the bandwidth costs
<BigRedS> then you should mirror them
<BigRedS> rather than set up a new, distinct, service
<BigRedS> just subscribe to their torrents
<popey> why do they have problems finding places to host their isos?
<popey> there's plenty of options
<BigRedS> and, if you can provide proper resilient hosting of the sort of volume they need, perhaps offer a proper mirror service. But I'd suggest that if you can do it so can they
<popey> sourceforge for example
<BigRedS> generally, though, as projects become popular enough to have problems hosting they also attract donations of service. We mirror Ubuntu and Debian here, for example. We use them quite heavily, an internal apt mirror makes sense, and so we may as well be a public one
<xr1rr> Yeah but Im offering a place to find to host linux dsitros and talk about them, then download thing was a way to help out
<BigRedS> Is there a need for that? I'm struggling to see the unsolved problem you're solving
<popey> xr1rr, talk about them? a forum?
<xr1rr> Most people for example start with one Linux distro and then they move and want to see what else is around
<BigRedS> there's already more fragmentation than would be ideal; I don't see why a new forum for the discussion of Linux is needed. Perhaps you'll do it differently to all the fora, mailing lists, exchanges, subreddits and irc channels, but in your position I'd want a pretty clear idea of how it'll be different and why nobody's done that before
<BigRedS> before sinking money into it
<diplo> +1 :)
<xr1rr> I understand what your saying
<oimon> xr1rr, please take it as helpful critique rather than everybody bashing your idea :)
<xr1rr> and I agree. I think I am not explaining myself rite. Basically some think like distrowatch but with a nicer web 2.0 interface and more functionally
<oimon> distrowatch is a pretty hideous site tbh
<xr1rr> trying to create a way of promoting Linux distro's more, that is the reason for it
<oimon> i suspect the design of DW hasn't changed in 10 yrs
<oimon> yep, pretty much the same http://web.archive.org/web/20020124204635/http://www.distrowatch.com/
<xr1rr> but I think bit torrent is the best way to go for helping with downloads i guess.
<popey> depends who the target market is
<BigRedS> I don't think a "nice 2.0 interface" and "bit torrent" are solutions to the same problem, personally
<xr1rr> so direct downloads?
<BigRedS> I didn't say that :)
<BigRedS> It just sounds like you're really eager to provide a solution so you're desperately searching for a problem that you want to solve
<BigRedS> If what's wanted is a Web2.0 DistroWatch (whatever that is) then the expectation will be easy web-based downloading, surely?
<xr1rr> ok
<oimon> yesss just remembered i have cake
<BigRedS> I know nothing of web design/development, but could Distrowatch be spruced up with a new CSS file? Would it be worth doing that to get a more modern distrowatch and distributing it as a greasemonkey plugin or somesuch? Or just sending it to whoever is behind distrowatch and asking what they think of it?
<BigRedS> I don't really know how that works, but I'm concerned you'll put a lot of effort and some money into setting up a service that's prettier than distrowatch but not better in such a way as to attract users
<xr1rr> but I said similar to Distrowatch
<xr1rr> not a redesign
<BigRedS> yeah. what should be different?
<oimon> the way to improve things is firstly from within
<oimon> if they don't listen then you provide the alternative independently
<BigRedS> distrowatch already has infrastructure, audience and trust. Those are _hard_ to get, and if you can use theirs you'll save yourself a lot of bother
<diplo> Anyone know a way of converting Psion files and contacts to a usable format ?
<diplo> epoch32 i believe
<BigRedS> ISTR a thingy for epoch that'd do it
<BigRedS> if youv'e still got the psion
<BigRedS> I can have a dredge to see if I've still got it if you do have a psion still
<diplo> The guy has a backup of the dat files on a CF card, Psion was sent off to be fixed and has got lost by the royal mail
<diplo> He has a older Psion that he may be able to use though
<BigRedS> aw man. Not good :(
<diplo> So yeah if you have
<BigRedS> If I've got it it, it'd be for a 5mx or a 3c
<diplo> I'll ask him shortly
<oimon> i have a revo somewhere
<oimon> needs new batteries probably though
<BigRedS> cool. It might be this evening before I can check; it'll be on the fileserver at my dad's and his router keeps forgetting to let ssh in
<diplo> :P
<BigRedS> So I have to wait for someone to be in to reconfigure it...
<diplo> I'm out watching Bourne film tonight so anytime in the next week or so is fine :)
<diplo> thanks
<oimon> http://www.ericlindsay.com/epoc/sisync5.htm
<BigRedS> Hm, talking to a friend, he reckons I probably used PsiWin and Outlook's own export mechanism
<diplo> yeah i've found psiwin ( I dont have outlook though )
<oimon> looks primising http://software.frodo.looijaard.name/psiconv/
<BigRedS> yeah, I think I did at the time. Still, when I get some ssh I'll see if I can find anything
<diplo> ta
<diplo> oimon: Your foo is better than mine today
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Cool, linux prog as well
<diplo> Will get the data off him and give it a go
<diplo> See if I can find my CF reader next
<BigRedS> aha, nifty
<Mez> AlanBell: ping :)
<Mez> Anyone who might know anything about Global Jam: Ping
<AlanBell> hi Mez
<Mez> AlanBell: Afternoon :)
<popey> hello!
<popey> reminds me, need to ask how many people want to come to canonical for jamming
<Mez> Is anyone organising anything at the moment for the Global Jam ?
<popey> yes
<popey> i am
<popey> but only one in London, no others
<Mez> popey: that's part of what I'm pinging for.
<Mez> I've ran the birmingham one a few times - thinking of doing it again :)
<Mez> As work have a conference centre attached - it makes sense :)
<Mez> (though, Coventry, not Birmingham)
<Mez> Anyone have thoughts/comments/suggestions/other regarding that ?
<AlanBell> I am not going to be doing much with it (probably) as I am working at the Paralympics
<Mez> The next full team meeting is scheduled for 2nd February 2012, 18:00 BST (17:00 UTC) and will be held in #ubuntu-uk-meeting on irc.freenode.net. <-- wow out of date :)
<BigRedS> Ah, clearly you don't have a time machine
<BigRedS> Ooh, I'd be up for going to a Jam in London. Not sure what I can do to help, but I'll pass biscuits around
<Mez> BigRedS: not up for one in Coventry ? :P
<Mez> just popped a post to the ML to see what interest might be like.
<Mez> http://media.djhenry.co.uk/photos/2012/07/02/SJB_0312.jpg <-- someone did a god job of taking pics of our conference centre
<BigRedS> Mez: Hmm, less up for it, but Coventry is about as far away from where I am as London is
<Mez> BigRedS: Is that just cause it's Coventry ? :P
<popey> so the schedule says thursday to sunday for the jam
<BigRedS> Well, I've still not quite accepted the fact that I've moved out of London
<popey> I am thinking I might do thursday/friday or friday/saturday
<popey> what do people think?
<popey> means we can get a mix of people
<popey> especially friday/saturday
<BigRedS> yeah, I'll only be able to do the weekend
<Mez> does it ?  I thought it just said Fri/Sat/Sun
<BigRedS> but I guess there'll be several who can't
<Mez> we're able to do all of it here though :)
<popey> got a link?
<Mez> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/1901/detail/
<Mez> 7th - 9th
<KrimZon> nowadays whenever I see those wide angle shots I can almost feel the other two walls pressing against the back of my head
<Mez> KrimZon: it's not *that* wide angle a shot (and it's taken from a doorway :)
<popey> ah, so 7-8th in london will work well i think
<Mez> if it was wide angle - you'd see the entrances to the 2 meeting rooms :)
<KrimZon> ahh :)
<BigRedS> whoah that paragraph needs reformatting
<Mez> which paragraph?
<BigRedS> There's only one - that's teh problem :) On the link you posted
<BigRedS> It looks a lot like someone copied and pasted several paragraphs into something that didn't recognise the linebreaks
<AlanBell> czajkowski can edit that
<czajkowski> fixed
<BigRedS> Whoop! ta!
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2012-August/034914.html
<popey> \o/ global jam london
<Dave2> London manages to get pretty jammed by itself
<czajkowski> doodlepoll++
<BigRedS> How does the jam normally work? Is it working-day sort of hours then a pub? Or all-night-hackathon-and-pizza style?
<popey> daytime
<BigRedS> aha, cool
<davmor2> BigRedS: normally you take the lid off and spread it on your buttered toast :D
<BigRedS> davmor2: :)
 * Flashtek grins
 * DJones wonders whether he should worry that his 72 year old mother is about to read the 50 shades trilogy
<Darael> DJones: A friend of mine is blogging some excellent snark on those books.
<dadolino> hi to all
<DJones> Hi dadolino
<dadolino> I need one help
<dadolino> about browsing
<DJones> Ask your question, we'll see if we can help
<dadolino> ok it goes like this
<dadolino> I have get list of web sites  and its like 500 sites
<dadolino> from the work
<dadolino> but some of that links are broken and like infected
<dadolino> I use ubuntu 12.10  and chromium brow
<dadolino> so is there any way to protect my self from
<dadolino> bad sites if I wisit some of them
<Darael> The vast majority of websites that contain malware will have it targeted at Windows only.  I don't believe there's any malware in the wild at the moment targeting Linux desktops.  You're pretty much safe anyway.
<BigRedS> why do you need to visit them? Is it a single download that you need?
<dadolino> and what about  my saved  pass in chrome
<dadolino> can that be seen
<jacobw> define bad sites
<dadolino> or is bether to use some software then   to save it in chrome brows
<Darael> Not unless you go installing browser extensions that might be able to read it.  The browser should prompt before installing any, so...
<dadolino> like porn sites ,
<dadolino> one site I open it was like this site was hackd   xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<DJones> I wonder whether something like DansGuardian would help with that, presumably it would block any dodgy sites
<Flashtek> indeed it could
<Darael> It might be easier to give useful information if you tell us why you're looking at this list of 500 sites?  Presumably there's something you're trying to achieve?
<Darael> DG does sound like a good place to begin.
<dadolino> what is that application or
<dadolino> do you know any good firewall   router that I can download and install on my old pc
<dadolino> in home
<oimon> dadolino, i believe there are blacklists of sites you can add to adblock so that your browser doesn't open them
<oimon> otherwise i've used lists which i've applied to squidguard to block staff from accessing bad sites
<oimon> including tottenham hotsp*r home page
<dadolino> that list is that i get
<dadolino> from company bos and they need to
<dadolino> have telephone numbers
<dadolino> but some sites when i wisit it
<dadolino> was not there and then its redirection
<dadolino> and that sheet
<dadolino> and then redirect me on some porno site
<dadolino> like that companies before was on that domain but they change or what
<dadolino> dont know
<dadolino> and this company needs update contact numbers
<dadolino> telephon
<Flashtek> dadolino: ipcop, smoothwall and several others will run as a firewall/router/content filter.. depends how much control you want/have
<dadolino> I want to have log
<dadolino> so I can check what is going on
<dadolino> these that you say they have logs   like when I put filter they show  what is going on
<dadolino> DJones did DansGuardian can be installed just from   ubuntu app store ?
<dadolino> I see it there
<dadolino> and can I use it without proxy or I need and proxys
<DJones> I've not used it for a long time, from what I remember about it, it just has a list of risky/dodgy website and blocks access to them if you try to go to them in a web browser
<dadolino> ok i will install it from ubuntu store
<TheOpenSourcerer> dadolino: You might want to take a look at Untangle too. You can drop that on a home machine (will take it over completely). It's a very powerful gateway application: http://www.untangle.com/
<DJones> Azelphur: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/08/21/1530248/bitcoin-card-to-launch-in-2-months-says-bitinstant?
<Azelphur> DJones, nice
<Azelphur> I'm happy :p
<ali1234> did pirate pay out yet?
<popey> Azelphur, someone gave a talk about bitcoin at oggcamp
<zleap> how do i register as a user
<zleap> i know its something like /msg nickserv register password e-mail
<zleap> is thatright
<AlanBell> !register
<lubotu3> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
 * zleap is waiting for an e-mail
<Azelphur> ali1234, no
<Azelphur> popey, cool
<popey> he didn't sell it well
<Azelphur> popey, that's no good :(
<popey> he went into quite a lengthy rant about banking and corruption
<ali1234> of course
<popey> and talked about some benefits of bitcoin
<popey> and then when quizzed about what you could actually buy with them..
<ali1234> bitcoin early adopters are all libertarian nutters
<popey> left up a page showing tits
<Azelphur> popey, the answer to that is...anything?
<Azelphur> you name it, I can buy it with bitcoins
<popey> thats not the point
<Azelphur> oh?
<popey> it's not straightforward
<popey> like buying your weekly shopping or a newspaper, or any number of daily household items
<ali1234> yeah... you used to be able t say the same thing about the internet
<ali1234> so the question is
<ali1234> are you going to just sit around and wait for someone else to make it
<ali1234> or you going to do it yourself?
<popey> indeed, that was discussed
<popey> the analogy to the internet, and how the things that led the way were technical or porn
<Azelphur> popey, that's because the infrastructure doesn't exist yet
<ali1234> honestly, if you need this kind of stuff spoonfed to you in a hour long lecture format, then bitcoin is not mature enough for you yet
<popey> Azelphur, I know
<popey> <Azelphur> you name it, I can buy it with bitcoins
<Azelphur> it's perfectly capable of being super simple, and it probably will be in the future
<Azelphur> but right now it's very new, it's only 3 years old
<AlanBell> there is a credit card now isn't there
<dwatkins> I expected bitcoins to stop being used since they're so easy to launder money with.
 * AlanBell expected them to start being used for exactly the same reason
<davmor2> Finally I got round to adding a photo to the desktop wallpaper I don't think I'll win with kitty_gonna_get_ya but hey :D
<davmor2> I might add a more sensible one after :)
<Azelphur> AlanBell: credit card was in the news today, eta is 1-2 months
<bigcalm_laptop> Hi peeps :)
<popey> yo
<bigcalm_laptop> London is not for me
 * bigcalm_laptop wants to be back home in the country side
<bigcalm_laptop> Doesn't help that I have my yearly oggflu
<davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: you're just a big girls blouse though, but I'm with you on the london thing
<bigcalm_laptop> :P
<davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: if you are at the elephant and castle you should meet up with filace and czajkowski
<bigcalm_laptop> davmor2: you might have guessed, but I won't be at the LUG or WPD
<davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: Yeah you already said
<bigcalm_laptop> davmor2: E&C was the closest station, still a bit of a walk back to this hotel
<bigcalm_laptop> Ah, I couldn't remember
 * bigcalm_laptop sneezes at everything
<brobostigon> aurghhh
<bigcalm_laptop> Slow hotel connection is slow
<brobostigon> :(
<bigcalm_laptop> I'm guessing that all of the other guests are using it right now as well
<davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: I blame aircons for eventflu's people dress for the hot clammy weather outside and then freeze to death slowly when in the conference
<bigcalm_laptop> The conference wasn't cold
<bigcalm_laptop> It was manageable (just)
<czajkowski> davmor2: I'm out in canada water
<czajkowski> you down for long bigcalm_laptop ?
<bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: here until Thursday evening
<bigcalm_laptop> I'm pondering a little sight seeing (The Eye for example) at some point
<davmor2> czajkowski: go an pick on the big girls blouse that is bigcalm_laptop show him some decent places to eat :)
<bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: Borough Road here
<JamesTait> 'night all!
 * JamesTait waves
<bigcalm_laptop> Toodles
 * bigcalm_laptop attacks the orange in the fridge
<bigcalm_laptop> 1st hotel I've been to with fridge in the room!
 * jacobw waits for complaint about the orange costing Â£5/200ml
<dogmatic69> bigcalm_laptop: if you like your money, step away from the mini bar
<davmor2> dogmatic69: he's in London it's probably still cheaper than the bar :D
<dogmatic69> lol
<bigcalm_laptop> There's no bar or mini-bar
<bigcalm_laptop> What should I have for tea then?
<bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: any suggestions for nice eating places I won't look a tit for being there on my own?
<AlanBell> bigcalm_laptop: grab a boris bike and head north
<bigcalm_laptop> AlanBell: when should I stop heading north?
<ali1234> the watford gap
<bigcalm_laptop> I want to go home
<AlanBell> there is loads of stuff near the river, and towards leicester square
<jacobw> bigcalm_laptop: http://www.leonrestaurants.co.uk/restaurants/
<czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: at this hour, leicester square
<czajkowski> or head down towards waterloo
<czajkowski> lots of nice places along there to eat
<czajkowski> from pizza express to some niec italian places
<Azelphur> ali1234: the guys in #btcst have a drinking game going on, every time someone asks when pirate will pay out, drink
<Azelphur> xD
<bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: thank you :)
<popey> Azelphur, has he stopped paying out?
<Azelphur> popey: he said he's shutting down and will be force withdrawing everyone over the course of the next week
<Azelphur> so all the "pirate is a ponzi scam" people are laughing and saying we lost our money :p
<popey> so they were right?
<ali1234> there's still a small chance he will return deposits
<ali1234> very very small
<Azelphur> popey: not yet, he says he fully intends to pay everyone back
<Azelphur> the way I see it, why would you announce your paying everyone back, stop taking deposits, and still hang around on IRC if you was scamming lol
<Azelphur> so I'm still in the "it's probably not a scam" team
<penguin42> Azelphur: So the price would drop a lot so that you could pay back less?
<Azelphur> penguin42: huh?
<penguin42> Azelphur: Well, I don't know how this works - does he pay back in $ or in BC ?
<Azelphur> BTC.
<ali1234> for lulz
<ali1234> penguin42: you are probably correct about his plan
<penguin42> ali1234: Well, if he's got the cash in $ he would want the BTC conversion price to be high to pay out minimum $ and hmm
<mgdm> this sort of nonsense is why I have no interest in bitcoin
<ali1234> he probably believes it will work to
<Azelphur> penguin42: could well be, lots of people are conspiracying about that :P
<davmor2> night all
<Azelphur> anyone know how to add additional IPs that a server provider allocates you?
<Azelphur> it's all on one interface
<AlanBell> yus
<Azelphur> how do
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/6jpaDnup is how my ip addr looks atm
<AlanBell> set them up as eth0:0 and eth0:1
<Azelphur> AlanBell: nah, this seems to be different
<mgdm> it's the same thing underneath
<Azelphur> mgdm: huh?
<mgdm> 'ip addr' and 'ifconfig eth0:1'
<Azelphur> mgdm: not afaik, ifconfig only shows an eth1 with no virtual interfaces, ip addr shows all the IPs.
<mgdm> Hmm. Maybe it's changed since I last cared about sysadmin
<Azelphur> figured it out, ip addr add :)
<penguin42> yeh, I should learn ip - I'm still an oldschooler who only really does stuff with ifconfig, I'd use an ifconfig eth1:1
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> re my amazon windows refund, seems amazon forgot about me haha
<Azelphur> "We'll contact you within a maximum of 5 business days" they said this on the 10th :<
<brobostigon> ouch
 * Azelphur goes onto live chat to poke them
<brobostigon> :
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> kenny, lol
<brobostigon> just found south park,
<brobostigon> on some obscure freeview channel.
<marxjohnson> my gf is about to buy a laptop, does anyone want to warn her off getting this one for any reason? http://is.gd/CZNMyt
<daubers> marxjohnson: Noooo!! It's brown!!!!
<Azelphur> marxjohnson: which one?
<daubers> also the i5 or the i7?
<marxjohnson> the i5
<Azelphur> I think that machine might be Optimus
<daubers> marxjohnson: Looks alright to me
<Azelphur> nah it's not, *phew*
<Azelphur> yep, looks good to me
<daubers> (other than being brown)
<Azelphur> indeed, brown
<Azelphur> did we mention it's brown?
<marxjohnson> what's Optimus, dare I ask?
<daubers> I'm not sure about the brown you know
<Azelphur> marxjohnson: an nvidia technology, nvidia takes the approach of "Oh you wanted to use Linux? Buy something else lol"
<Azelphur> but that laptop doesn't appear to be Optimus, so you're good
<Azelphur> gotta watch for nvidia optimus :p
<marxjohnson> noted
<Azelphur> marxjohnson: Linus Torvalds on nvidia optimus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ
<marxjohnson> ah, that's what prompted that
<Azelphur> yup lol
<marxjohnson> it's not noticeably brown, I think Ikea would call it black-brown
<Azelphur> marxjohnson: I just bought a Lenovo S205 which is a bit brown too, I like it so far
<Azelphur> apart from amazon are being lame about giving me a windows refund
<Azelphur> and for some reason it arrived with a damaged delete key
<gaz1069> anyone know much about k9copy?
<dogmatic69> anyone know what the money you have paid on your house is called? eg: if you bought for 100k and owe 75k what is the 25k called
<penguin42> deposit ?
<penguin42> oh, you mean even after the deposit ?
<dogmatic69> penguin42: ye
<dogmatic69> after
<dogmatic69> I keep thinking collateral but its not that.
<penguin42> ...and then I keep thinking films about hitmen
<dogmatic69> :/
<soreau> equity
<dogmatic69> soreau: ta, I think that is the one
<RashMenS> yo
<RashMenS> #finalownage
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-22
<AlanBell> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<christel> GOOD MORNING :D
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<TheOpenSourcerer> shh
<christel> aww
<diplo> :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> shiny :-) http://www.baserock.com/
<popey> morning
<DJones> Argh, stupid tesco bank, only works with IE
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey - Windows 8 sounds just like Unity ;-) http://www.pcgamesn.com/article/why-i-m-uninstalling-windows-8
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> "It took me nearly half an hour to work out how to turn off my PC."
<popey> GNOME Shell!
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> it sounds great eh?
<TheOpenSourcerer> "If youâre using Metro apps, there is no clock
<TheOpenSourcerer> FFS. "
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<christel> GOOD MORNING JamesTait my beautiful beautiful person! <3
<diplo> Happy mood today christel :)
<christel> why yes my lovely diplo :D
<christel> it is a WONDERFUL day!
<diplo> I need to feel like that, really must start my CV this week and find a new job!
<daubers> diplo: You can have mine if you want....
<diplo> If you weren't so far away daubers I'd jump at it :/
<daubers> Just need to fend off the "We need you to go to Amsterdam for a week to help with this trade show" rubbish
<diplo> With my kids it just puts that issue on me of flexibility
<christel> nono, jump on it anyway! you'd be closer to all us cool people :D
<JamesTait> christel: I think you must have me confused with someone else. :-P
<christel> haha
<christel> not at aaaalllll
<JamesTait> christel: How are you, my lovely?
<diplo> I have debated moving lot's of times, just interferes Mondays with school/swimming lessons, other than that I'm good with moving.
<diplo> Apart from moving kids away from friends etc
<diplo> Not got much holding me locally.
<christel> JamesTait: i am VERY LOTS OF WELL (!?) :D
<JamesTait> christel: Well that sounds good. :)  Have you been drinking? :-P
<christel> diplo: *nod* they are young enough to be able to settle down quickly after a move and make new friends etc i assume :)
<christel> JamesTait: hahaha nO!
<diplo> yeah defo
<diplo> Anyone here have any knowledge of the east of Spain ?
<christel> move to spain! i'll come visit and sunbathe! :D
<diplo> Los Montesinos, Valencia, Spain in particular area
<diplo> Just down from Alicante, been offered a flat for a week for free, just anyone recommend places around that area for a single bloke to do for a week :)
<diplo> Rarely had abroad holidays in years and never on my own
<soreau> diplo: drink and avoid getting mugged
<diplo> heh soreau, defo one of my plans. I heard Barcelona was bad for that not the rest of the country
<dutchie> daubers: not having fun at work? :(
<christel> oh nice
<daubers> dutchie: Too much going on, too much change requiring me to relearn my job!
<daubers> While still doing my old job
<diplo> daubers: that was my issue at my last job, and all the extra hours they wanted me to do for free
<daubers> diplo: I don't necessarily have that problem, as things like holiday days are quite lax (can get a lot of time in leiu as long as it doesn't get it in the way of stuff)
<dutchie> daubers: :( not much fun
<daubers> diplo: It's just that I've never been tought how to manage! Thats now most of what I do :(
<daubers> oh well, residential course in october to learn
<diplo> daubers: Also one of my issues, I was temp manager for 6 months, learnt a lot in those 6 months
<diplo> Now I don't have any of that, but just don't enjoy my work,
<daubers> heh :)
<dwatkins> diplo: I'm starting to feel like that in the rather large company I'm currently at.
<diplo> :/
<dwatkins> there just seems to be too much work to do, or things to put right
<diplo> yeah that was my old issue
<diplo> The month before I left I basically wasn't in any projects so I basically fixed everyones niggles for a month
<diplo> The guys have said since that most of the support issues disappeared after that
<diplo> Wondering whether I should have stayed :D
<dwatkins> I don't have access to the source, so I'm constantly fighting fires and dealing with other people having not dealt with things in a timely manner.
<diplo> :/
<diplo> What do you do as a job dwatkins, still quite suprised by people who idle in here who are not in the IT industry
<dwatkins> I'm in tech support, diplo.
<diplo> Everything, or server side ?
<dwatkins> server or client - I support a couple applications which can have issues on either.
<dwatkins> ..and in three languages (French, German and English)
<diplo> Oh fun, are you bilingual(sp??)
<dutchie> this is quite a d-based conversation
<dutchie> tab completion must be a pain
<dwatkins> kinda, I can hold a conversation in any of my languages, although my grammar isn't too brilliant sometimes.
<dwatkins> d-based, dutchie?
<dutchie> Daubers Dwatkins and Dutchie
<dwatkins> ah yes :)
<dwatkins> I just see white, green and deep green ;)
<diplo> and diplo!
 * diplo feels left out :D
<dwatkins> you're the green one, diplo
<diplo> heh
<dutchie> ah yes, sorry diplo
<dwatkins> I might move back down south, to the M4 corridor (seeing as my family is all there)
<diplo> That's me dwatkins
<diplo> I'd rather get work in a SMB being the sole IT guy i reckon, get my hands back on etc
<dwatkins> yeah, I worked for a startup company back in the 'dotcom bubble' days, it was great fun.
<davmor2> Morning all
<dutchie> another d!
<dutchie> maybe we have Displaced all others
<diplo> lol
<DJones> Do What?
<Darael> What's this?
<Mez> popey / AlanBell - looks like we've got the go-ahead here to do the Global Jam for all three days ... though not too sure how many people would be interested.
<AlanBell> excellent
<popey> yay
<popey> we could do a live link up
<popey> hangout
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | You don't have to start with "d" to be here, but it helps | Global Jam soon!
<AlanBell> popey: want a polycom communicator for that?
<mattt> jamjamjam!
<mattt> Mez: where's the jam going to be at ?
<diplo> AlanBell: heh at topic
<dutchie> :D
<dutchie> (the only appropriate smiley)
<popey> sardines on toast for lunch.. nom nom nom
<diplo> Oh god no! Stay away
<diplo> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> phew.
 * TheOpenSourcerer will probably pick up a Tesco Curry on the way to the office he thinks
<diplo> Now that sounds nice :)
 * AlanBell likes to eat sardines when there is nobody else in the house to complain about it
 * diplo is going to give the HairyDieters low cal curry a go soon, just printed out the recipe. 
<popey> yeah, everyone left when i opened the tin
<TheOpenSourcerer> Except Sky I should think.
<diplo> lol popey, things should be banned unless in open areas
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pilchards
<TheOpenSourcerer> Kippers
<diplo> :(
<AlanBell> diplo: let me know how it goes, I am on a bit of a diet
<AlanBell> AlanBell--
<diplo> Will do, my mum bought the book a couple of days ago so will be 'borrowing' that as well
<diplo> Going to try and make some variations of the indian dishes for a Indian night at my gaff soon for some friends. If they taste ok i will share that aswell :)
<AlanBell> also take a picture of your spicerack :)
<diplo> I really must one day, well it's a cupboard but I will..
<daubers> diplo: Oooh.. I keep meaning to watch that problem
 * daubers went and saw the Hairy Bikers being filmed
 * TheOpenSourcerer and the Mrs are thinking of doing the 2 in 7 <600 calorie fasting diet - as shown on Horizon the other week.
<diplo> yeah i saw a few people on G+ doing the 600 cal diet
<diplo> They seem to think it works
<AlanBell> that is what I am doing
<diplo> Well let me know how that goes, I need to start excersing more but dieting is defo another place i need to work at
<AlanBell> 600 or so yesterday, probably going to try not to eat masses on other days too
<TheOpenSourcerer> I like the idea you eat what you want for the other 5 days :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool - a Hoverbike. http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/47008/star-wars-hover-bike-becomes-reality
<Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm considering trying paleo as I have friends who've had amazing luck with it not just for weight, but for overall health. I decided it was a possible thing to try after I found a recipe for a paleo-diet-friendly chocolate cake. Otherwise I've had my best luck with Weight Watchers, especially if I ignore their suggestion for carb levels and go lower carb, higher protein. But even falling off WW pretty spectacularly post-surg
<dwatkins> I just started a low-carb diet, seems to be working fine so far: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Neris-Indias-Idiot-Proof-Diet-From/dp/0141027436
<dwatkins> Carbs raise insulin levels, which causes the body to store fat more.
<dwatkins> It's less about how much you eat than what you eat.
<Pendulum> dwatkins: out of curiousity have you gotten the "carb flu" from your diet?
<dwatkins> Pendulum: no, but I've been travelling, and havn't been able to stick to it strictly yet.
<bigcalm_laptop> Ello :)
<popey> bug 1040206
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1040206 in xorg (Ubuntu) "nvidia binary driver doesn't support XRandR 1.2/1.3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040206
<Dave2> This channel has a nice round number of people in it
<penguin42> 2^power of the people
<DJones> 128 is a round number?
<penguin42> very
<penguin42> DJones: It's 2^7
<penguin42> bah, someone's spoiled it
<AlanBell> anyone got any further thoughts on places to go for a christmas event? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2012-August/034895.html
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... concerned: downloaded the iso from the "Get Ubuntu Now" link on homepage. lsb_release shows what I thought it might from the iso name... it's still 12.04[.0]
<SuperEngineer> I thougfht 12.04.1 was now current?
<SuperEngineer> [can someone give popey a nudge towards that & do canonical a favour pretty please]
<popey> nope
<popey> tomorrow is 12.04.1 day
<zleap> ohh
<zleap> cool
<SuperEngineer> hah so
<SuperEngineer> thanks popey - thought it was already official from the hype
<popey> heh
<zleap> popey, i may download then so i install the latest version
<popey> its only 12.04 with updates
<popey> so if you already have 12.04 and update it, you're already running 12.04.1
<AlanBell> it is not a terribly exciting release, it just means if you happen to be installing 12.04 from tomorrow onwards you don't have as big an update as soon as it is installed
<popey> 12.10 though... thats very exciting! :D
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: it just means when I update sister's pooter she doesn't huff & puff watching massive updates... that makes it life preserving ;)
<AlanBell> not really
<AlanBell> it is just a one-shot benefit
<AlanBell> 12.10 is exciting, but it isn't the least bit exciting in virtualbox at the moment :(
<SuperEngineer> [so is a cpr machine]  ...same purpose ;)
<SuperEngineer> medic to patient: look this cpr kit is a one shot cure, or would you like to stay here while we pray for you
<popey> AlanBell, bug 1040240
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1040240 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity_support_test chooses software, should use hardware driver" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040240
<popey> can you confirm that
<AlanBell> I will try the workaround on bug 1021104
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1021104 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Severe damage artefacts and flickering when using LLVMpipe" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021104
<bigcalm_laptop> Hi kids
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm_laptop
<bigcalm_laptop> What have I been missing while in noisy London?
<AlanBell> popey: so with the workaround (full screen redraws every frame) I am seeing llvmpipe rendered unity 3d?
<bigcalm_laptop> Silly nickserv
<penguin42> bigcalm_laptop: Yes, it just prodded me as well
<SuperEngineer> Nickserve is now known as Nickserve___11456332ti8w34-femjszbdp;ko   ;)
<popey> yes AlanBell
<AlanBell> popey: I am pretty impressed by the performance then
<popey> it's going to get a bit better
<AlanBell> should be better without doing the full redraws
<popey> yeah, but what CPU do you have?
<AlanBell> core i3 mobile
<popey> which has a 3d capable GPU
<ahayzen> Hi, does anyone know what the crossover resolution is between when the dash is fullscreen as default and when it isn't? Many Thanks, Andy
<AlanBell> model name: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 CPU       M 330  @ 2.13GHz
<bigcalm_> Hotel wifi is so bad I'm better off with my 3g connection
<popey> ahayzen, yeah, it's in our tests.. one mo
<AlanBell> popey: sure, it should be good when it uses the real drivers, but I wanted to see llvmpipe working anyhow
<bigcalm_laptop> Only good thing about London is the H+ connection I'm getting
<popey> no, i mean, imagine you have a machine which is _not_ 3d capable
<popey> it's likely to be older than i3
<AlanBell> yes, probably
<popey> ergo less performant than you're seeing
<AlanBell> an older thing might have a decent CPU though, a server for example
<popey> you don't find many people running desktops interactively on servers
<ahayzen> popey, Thanks :)
<AlanBell> sure, but there isn't much else that isn't at all 3d capable
<popey> ahayzen, can't find it.. it's either 800x600 or 1024x768
<popey> sure there is..
<popey> arm
<popey> :)
<AlanBell> err, isn't that going to use openGL es accellerated in hardware?
<ahayzen> popey, Thanks ... was looking at laptops and was wondering if 1366x768 would be fullscreen or not
<ahayzen> popey, fullscreen is scary on a 1920x1080 display ;)
<popey> oh, no
<popey> i have 1366x768
<Dave2> 1366x768 :(
<popey> AlanBell, hope so, GLES should land soon
<ahayzen> so 1366x768 is fullscreen?
<popey> no
<AlanBell> ahayzen: if you maximise the dash, but not normally
<AlanBell> probably 600 vertical is the fullscreen dash by default, it then won't display the shortcut overlay on long hold of the super key either
<ahayzen> ok cause i prefer unity in non-fullscreen :)
<ahayzen> Thanks guys...quick response as usual :)
<daubers> Evening
<mgdm> Hi
<daubers> It's late and I'm still up!
<bigcalm_laptop> Evening
<bigcalm_laptop> Can I go home now please?
<bigcalm_laptop> My unit tests look fabulous, sadly I don't understand half of them
<dwatkins> I long for unit tests.
<bigcalm_laptop> dwatkins: you are strange then :P
<bigcalm_laptop> mgdm: 7/9 people on our course are now using phpStorm. I'm using the demo, seems quite nice. Any experience yourself?
<dwatkins> bigcalm_laptop: imagine a large application with some changes made to it, the 'QE' team test the functionality immediately surrounding those changes, but don't notice something else that's affected because it's further away
<bigcalm_laptop> dwatkins: it's nice that you have time and budget for writing tests :D
<dwatkins> I'm not certain unit tests would be the solution, but I feel there's something lacking there.
<mgdm> bigcalm_laptop: no, 'cos it's quite pricey, and I'm fairly happy with Vim
<dwatkins> bigcalm_laptop: yeah, that's probably why the entire application isn't tested. I just wish it could be done in an automated fashion so the issue which arose could have been detected
<popey> BigRedS, how you finding sparkleshare?
<daubers> http://ubuntuone.com/367PRPf2OdLpB5fEq5QXve <- An evening well spent
<bigcalm_laptop> Silly t-mobile
<dwatkins> very nice, daubers :)
 * dwatkins wishes he still lived in Reading so he could join in
<BigRedS> popey: Just filed a bug, pondering another :)
<BigRedS> but it works once set up
<BigRedS> quite like it
<BigRedS> While I'm here, though, Launchpad tells me that Sparkleshare bugs go in Gnome's bugzilla, but the Sparkleshare site says to file them on GitHub. Where should I point this out?
<bigcalm_laptop> File a bug
 * bigcalm_laptop hides
 * bigcalm_laptop feels as helpful as davmor2
<bigcalm_laptop> popey: can you make this? :) http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1906/detail/
 * popey clicks
<popey> I'll tell you once I get past the launchpad oops :)
<bigcalm_laptop> :D
 * bigcalm_laptop slithers off to bed
<dutchie> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-23
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<czajkowski> aloha
<christel> GOOD MORNING <3
<daubers> PARDON
<mgdm> WHAT WAS THAT
<dutchie> o/
<daubers> THREE YOU SAY?
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<oimon> does planet ubuntu uk still work?
<AlanBell> doesn't look like it
<christel> GOOD MORNING JamesTait and oimon \o/
<oimon> YES VERY NICE DAY
<christel> YES
<hoover> good morning all
<oimon> hmm much as i like lightread, it has a tendency to not update stuff sometimes :S
<oimon> oh, i've just seen the way that chrome does print preview - very nice!
<diplo> Mine just spins and doesn't update
<diplo> :/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<oimon> diplo, your what, your lightread?
<oimon> mine has succumbed to the spinny not updating thing too
<oimon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightread/+bug/1029999
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1029999 in Lightread "Can't update Lightread" [Undecided,Fix released]
<diplo> yeah spinny thing on lightread
 * diplo looks at link
<diplo> yeah I guessed it wasn't authed properly
<diplo> Hadn't got round to signing in yet
<oimon> i was using it since release
<oimon> then it died  - maybe after i accessed from abnother machine?
<oimon> when i sign in i get the Downloading items |==============---| problem
<diplo> I'll try reauthing now as I'm talking about it.
<oimon> under edit-preferences do you see an OK button? my window is cropped
<diplo> nope, cropped here as well
<oimon> excellent app let down by some basic bugs that all users get :(
<diplo> Can't see a bug for the ok ?
<oimon> leave it 10 mins ;)
<oimon> i have another bug too
<diplo> Put as affecting me on the other one aswell
<oimon> hmm is it this one? https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightread/+bug/1034413
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1034413 in Lightread "Checkbox to toggle notifications on/off is obscured" [Undecided,New]
<diplo> It's very much like that, but i do see the show notifications with a few pixels of the bottom
<oimon> it's a badly named big but essentially the same thing
<oimon> s/big/bug/
<diplo> OK, assigned myself to that one as well
<diplo> Ought to try and fix some of these one day, means me trying to do something outside of work which i suck at :)
<popey> I'm sure the author would appreciate the help diplo
<popey> bite-size bugs like this are a good way in
<oimon> what is it written in?
<oimon> would be a nice project to start on
<popey> /opt/extras.ubuntu.com/lightread/bin/lightread: a /usr/bin/python script, ASCII text executable
<BigRedS> I keep wondering about learnign python as a way of making more of these bugs accessible to me
<BigRedS> but then I realise that if I like Perl, it's not likely that any python dev will like my Python :)
<popey> i think python is less susceptible to that, certainly less than perl
<oimon> perl is hideusly obfuscable
<diplo> BigRedS: I've been teaching myself python recently
<dutchie> <3 python
<diplo> more for scripting, but watched a few vids and it's fairly simple
<diplo> to create gui apps etc
<BigRedS> yeah, every time I come up with a project to write in a new language I seem to spend about half an hour on it and then think "sod it, I'll just do this in perl"
<BigRedS> everything else seems to get string handling so horribly wrong. :)
<diplo> heh
<dutchie> BigRedS: string handling?
<BigRedS> yeah, mostly being able to do stuff like
<diplo> popey: I think I'm more than capable, it's  more of me turning the PC on at home and getting motivated.. lost a lot of that
<BigRedS> if ($string =~ /From:\s+(\S+)/)
<BigRedS> so I mean regexes more than I do strings
<dutchie> when all you have is a hammer^Wregexes, everything looks like a nail
<dutchie> or something
<BigRedS> I am aware that Perl is a glorified regex, but I don't ever seem to find the thing that whatever else is particularly better at :)
<BigRedS> admittedly, it's been a while since 'else' wasn't PHP or C
<dutchie> python is better than perl at not looking like line noise ;)
<BigRedS> I find perl way more readable than I do python :)
<dutchie> yeah, it's mostly familiarity
<diplo> Really, I've done a fair bit of perl but still prefer python over perl with the little use of it that I have done.
<dutchie> perl has too many magic variables that affect things in subtle ways for me to get used to
<dutchie> $_, $/, $\ etc
<BigRedS> but you don't need to use all of them, you just can if you like. It's not as if they're functions that're somehow intuitively implemented in other languages
<dutchie> it's more a problem when i'm looking at other people's code that does use thenm
<BigRedS> you always need to look up how to set what the line ending is when iterating through a file if you've not done it enough times before to have remembered it
<dutchie> them
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<BigRedS> I think a big problem that nobody else seems overly bothered about is this idea that functions should be a single word rather than a descriptive term
<BigRedS> hence things like chomp() and chop()
<popey> thats the issue I have dutchie, fettling other peoples code
<dutchie> although that said, it's taken me a couple of days to get my head around this python code
<dutchie> my python is rusty after spending a month or two playing with golan
<dutchie> g
<diplo> Other issue I have popey is I want to work on one of Dustins Kirklands project called pictor
<diplo> I've lp'd it out but having issues getting it working properly
<popey> oooh, you know go dutchie ?
<dutchie> "know"
<diplo> Debating about editing the apt-get'd code and then adding that to the lp project and do it that way
<dutchie> i ran through a couple of the tutorials and have been lurking on their ML for a little while
<davmor2> Morning all
<dutchie> i tried to write a jabber server but it was too hard, so current back burner project is an api for OEIS
<dutchie> i do know canonical use go internally to some extent
<diplo> Morning davmor2
<oimon> anyone who fixed lightreads papercuts would be a hero in many peoples eyes
<popey> dutchie, do you now ;)
 * dutchie wonders where popey is going with this
<popey> heh
<popey> just interested, not heard many people outside canonical use it
<dutchie> bit.ly do iirc
<dutchie> and obviously google
<dutchie> a guy at my college is writing a minecraft server in go
<davmor2> popey: there is a guy at the lug using it, he was a huge python guy but is considering a move to go instead
<popey> hah, nice dutchie
<dutchie> last time i saw it was not entirely functional
<dutchie> it spawned a single chunk of netherrack, and doing such things as sprinting or opening inventory kicked you off
<dutchie> however you could dig, but the digs weren't propagated or saved, so every time anyone logged on you had a fresh chunk
<dutchie> somewhat bizarre
<diplo> OK, popey to point me in the right direction
<diplo> I want to work on this tonight
<diplo> https://launchpad.net/pictor
<popey> bzr branch lp:pictor
<diplo> Who is best person to talk me through issues of setting it up to do development on it ?
<popey> cd pictor
<diplo> yeah got the code
<popey> edit stuff :D
<diplo> But it installs into /usr/share etc
<diplo> So I want to see the edited code in action, and I was having a few issues getting it running 100%
<diplo> Would the best bet be to symlink the files for now and do it that way ?
<popey> no
<popey> apt-get source pictor
<popey> and that will have all the bits to make a deb
<popey> apt-get build-dep pictor
<popey> which will get the build dependancies
<dutchie> if it's php, you can probably just run it locally
<diplo> yeah it is dutchie, but it's got files all over the system
<diplo> so you branch it out it is all in one dir
<diplo> I'll try apt-get source
<popey> apt-get source will just get you the version from the repo
<popey> which is probably similar to trunk
<diplo> yeah it is
<dutchie> diplo: files all over the system? the bzr branch ought to have everything you need...
<diplo> So as i say the prog wants to find things in /etc and /usr/share etc
<diplo> And I'm not sure the best way of testing the code I change
<diplo> yeah but to run it the files are being looked for in certain locations
<BigRedS> Unit Tests!
<diplo> I'll review the code again tonight and remind myself of the issues I had
<dutchie> i don't know much about php to be honest, but i'm sure others here do
<diplo> I can code php, it's just best practise really
<diplo> And tbh, what I want to fix is getting rid of tables and hard coded colors etc and stick it all in divs /css
<diplo> But wanted to give back to the project so thought i'd try doing it properly rather than just fixing my site
<diplo> :)
<oimon> diplo, fancy uploading a screenshot of pictor to USC?
<diplo> Will do tonight yeah
<oimon> if i've bought a humble bundle in the past thats included world of goo, do i need to buy the latest one to get it on android?
<dutchie> i think s
<dutchie> o
<oimon> can't work out how the games get added to android
<ali1234> diplo: that /etc nonsense is usually something that is added when software is debianized
<oimon> ah, it's simply an apk
<ali1234> for example, if you install phpmyadmin from the repos, it does the same thing
<diplo> ali1234: I did wonder that
<ali1234> you are supposed to just symlink it
<diplo> Cool, that's what I was going to do but wanted to be sure that was the correct way
<oimon> directhex, have you tried the humble bundle games on your touchpad?
<directhex> oimon, no, haven't androided it yet
<oimon> directhex, you're still running webos?
<directhex> oimon, yeah. hardly use it tbh. keep thinking "will android this later" & not doing it
<directhex> i guess i want a rom with a version number, not random nightlies
<oimon> i actually forgot i had webos on the thing. android on it is great
<oimon> yeah, as soon as i heard the wifi bug was fixed i chose the nightly that people agreed was a good one
<oimon> i use it most days, but haven't booted webos since putting android on a long time ago
<oimon> the remaining bug is the camera doesn't work
<oimon> i find it interesting that all of the "relevant art" sections of the gnome design docs look only at win8 and apple, and no other sources
<oimon> e.g. https://live.gnome.org/Design/SystemSettings/Printers
<ali1234> i find it interesting that you believe there is anything else worth looking at
<dogmatic69> most annoying bug. cant paste into browser from other apps. Can paste in to the url bar though and copy / paste in the browser is fine too
<oimon> ali1234, really? e.g. initial setup? that should look at other devices e.g android, plus kde etc https://live.gnome.org/GnomeOS/Design/Whiteboards/InitialSetup
<ali1234> lol KDE
<ali1234> no serious user designer should ever look at KDE, unless they want counter examples
<ali1234> android perhaps, but everything good in android is copied from apple
<BigRedS> so are most of the bad things, I'm lead to believe
<oimon> methinks you are trolling me
<shauno> apparently everyone's completely forgotten what android looked like pre-iphone
<oimon> pre google?
<BigRedS> nah, there was a bit of post-google in there
<BigRedS> I don't recall ever seeing it apart from this image: http://cdn.iphonehacks.com/images/2011/07/android07.jpg and similar ones
<oimon> http://blog.steventroughtonsmith.com/2012/05/2007s-pre-m3-version-of-android-google.html
<shauno> yeah, that's the one I'm thinking of too.  dock & all
<oimon> necessary for the blackberry style phone though
<oimon> looks very blackberry-esque
<shauno> right; RIM were ahead, so they were copying RIM
<BigRedS> yeah, that largely supports the idea that the iPhone was released and then Android copied it
<oimon> or the phone dictates the form and function
<oimon> if you see the apple emails from the samsung trial, apple were copying samsung and sony
<BigRedS> yeah, I don't doubt that it goes both ways
<daubers> Hooray for poor delivery companies
<daubers> Yodel fails to deliver a parcel, but marks it as delivered on their tracking system
<oimon> yoda?
<oimon> mmm parcel i have for you
<BigRedS> delivered, the parcel is not
<oimon> somebody has put an app in USC that is a 2d side scroller version of portal
<oimon> a la ZX spectrum style
<BigRedS> portal in 2d?
<BigRedS> I remember hearing about that, actually
<oimon> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/portal-slingshot/
<oimon> says the licence is proprietary but it's free though
 * popey clicks "Buy"
 * popey enters his username and password into USC.. _again_
<oimon> if there's anything worse than getting magazines and books in my USC results, it's getting fooreign language ones
 * popey enters 2fa _again_
<popey> davmor2, fix that
 * popey enters his desktop password
<popey> 4 dialogs to install an app
<oimon> popey, quantal fail?
<oimon> i need a snooze :(
<davmor2> popey: already in the work, USC is setting up it's own unified login for all services, it is part way there now payment is the last bit to get added
<davmor2> popey: 2fa I'm not sure about though
<popey> i just don't like entering my user/pass over and over
<oimon> anyone tried gnome 3.6 beta yet?
<davmor2> popey: yeap known issue and in the works might not be in time for quantal but they might swing it
<awilkins> Has Precise reached a "point" release yet ; ie - is it's version number 12.04.1 yet?
<AlanBell> awilkins: it is due to do so today
<awilkins> Is there a bug where upgraded boxes claim they are 12.04.1 early?
<awilkins> Our Precise servers are upgrades from Lucid and they seem to think they are 12.04.1
<awilkins> As does my current machine
<awilkins> Which is an upgrade from Oneiric
<awilkins> Or has the distribution been at 12.04.1 but there hasn't been a new installer cut yet?
<popey> thats not a bug
<popey> Description:	Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS
<popey> the "release" of 12.04.1 basically means us putting fresh ISOs on the site
<awilkins> I was just suspicious of the version number arriving before the ISOs :-)
<popey> people running 12.04 already are on 12.04.1 if they have all their updates
<awilkins> Jolly good
<AlanBell> popey: what about people on 10.04?
<popey> they will get the offer to upgrade later
<AlanBell> what is the trigger for that?
<popey> should be today
<popey> someone pressing a button
<AlanBell> :)
<popey> ask daviey, he's on release team :)
<AlanBell> I will ask later, I am just curious really about what it looks for
<Azelphur> lol that guy I bought the fucked up S3 from has relisted it stating it's "good condition" http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samsung-Galaxy-S-3-/221111451831?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones&hash=item337b4500b7#ht_500wt_1413
<Azelphur> should I report him to ebay?
<popey> yes
<Azelphur> step down from "perfect condition" but certainly not perfect haha
<Flashtek> how is it borked ?
<Azelphur> Flashtek: he sold it to me stating it was new perfect condition, https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x1btb0c9w9futq4/3mEOQEpIEW
<popey> well, did you figure if it was stolen?
<popey> maybe someone else will accept that condition
<popey> so nothing really to report to ebay then
<Azelphur> I checked everywhere I could and no it doesn't appear to be listed stolen
<Azelphur> popey: he's listed it as "good condition", that's definitely inaccurate
<popey> define "good"
<popey> it works
<popey> put a cover on it, you might not care
<Azelphur> http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/in+good+condition
<Azelphur> having holes clean through the outer casing is not physically and functionally sound and sturdy imo :P
<popey> meh
<Azelphur> I reported it anyway
<popey> why do you care? did you get your money back?
<Azelphur> he has 2 bad feedbacks for that phone alread
<Azelphur> popey: meh, just don't want no one else to buy it and have the same hassle, I can see he's running a scam by continually forcing the phone on people and then making them pay the return postage (although that didn't work with me)
<jacobw> evening
<AlanBell> evening all
<jacobw> top of evening to you sir
<davmor2> okay quick questions why would I be getting mail marked spam from my home server, when the server under amavis is set to final_destination_spam = D_DISCARD ?  I'll have a read of the server guide to night and try and figure if I missed something
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: because your home IP is dynamic and in anti-spam lists?
<jacobw> amavis configuration isn't straightforward
<Flashtek> because the local server has a local ip address ??
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: but it worked in lucid
 * MartijnVdS has no idea
<Flashtek> updated spamd rules ?
<davmor2> Flashtek: doubtful why would that stop it being placed in the discard pile
<Flashtek> i would check that the MTA is passing to avavis first.. just to be sure
<Flashtek> i misunderstood...
<jacobw> check if the mails have amavis headers
<jacobw> they might not be processed, or processed and not given a high enough score by the bayesian filter to be discarded
<chowda> I am trying to localize an app for the UK... odd question... what are the neighborhoods of London called? do you use the term neighborhood? district? something else?
<em> hey ikonia are you here?
<AlanBell> greater London
<AlanBell> or the commuter belt
<AlanBell> or the south east
<chowda> What is Chelsea, for instance? a neighborhood?
<davmor2> chowda: well they aren't called neighborhoods, that is the american spelling :)  districts iirc
<MartijnVdS> "The district is part of the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea. From 1900, and until the creation of Greater London in 1965, it formed the Metropolitan Borough of Chelsea in the County of London."
<MartijnVdS> </wikipedia>
<AlanBell> London boroughs
<chowda> Is that the common term? Borough?
<chowda> So if our app has a list of all of these, it would be right to say "Select your Borough?"
<davmor2> chowda: Fairly it discribe the local councils
<AlanBell> probably, yes
<MartijnVdS> chowda: or just "area"?
<MartijnVdS> "Which of these is nearest to you?"
<MartijnVdS> Done!
 * AlanBell agrees
<AlanBell> borough is a bit too precisely defined
<chowda> In SF, NYC and other major cities "Neighborhood" is correct... so our drilldown is State -> City -> Neighborhood... I suppose we could default to Area if Neighborhood doesn't read well in GB
<popey> pip pip!
<davmor2> Which rival gang owns your ass
<penguin42> chowda: What do you do outside cities ?
<AlanBell> borough is a specificall London concept
<davmor2> penguin42:  you still have boroughs they are just bigger
<chowda> penguin42 not much currently... but for a small city or town we would list the town name again as the only neighborhood and it would be skipped in the UI
<chowda> So I was hoping to find a term as widely accepted as neighborhood in the US, but not as general as "area"
<bigcalm_laptop> Suburb?
<chowda> thanks for the insight guys... sorry for the off topic weirdness
<jacobw> that's very US IMO
<chowda> really?
<chowda> good to know...
<penguin42> chowda: Hey it was at least 50% on topic
<jacobw> metropolian area might also be good choice
<chowda> penguin42: great point, I'll take it
<jacobw> town or city district
<chowda> looks like yelp uses "Area"... I guess they are a pretty solid place to emulate... as they use Neighborhood in the US
<jacobw> London is really the only city large enough to have this construct and it's not well defined in the spoken language outside of London
<penguin42> (not that London is a city of course)
<chowda> jacobw: every source I'm finding seems to agree, I appreciate the help
<chowda> wait... hah... I'm such an american... London isn't a city?
<MartijnVdS> it's several cities :)
<jacobw> technically not, but one could think of it as such
<MartijnVdS> it's all convention :)
<penguin42> chowda: I think generally what people refer to as London is the city of Westminster and the city of Kensington
<AlanBell> well the city of London is in London
<jacobw> the 'City of London' is a small financial district in Central London
<chowda> and I thought supporting a new currency was going to be the tricky part of this project!
<penguin42> chowda: Just accept that whatever you do it'll be technically wrong
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_borough#Map :)
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrObZ_HZZUc  watch that :)
<bigcalm_laptop> Choo choo!
<penguin42> chowda: Start at a higher level; are you asking people to select UK, Great Britain or England :-)
<chowda> UK
 * bigcalm_laptop waves London a very good bye!
<penguin42> chowda: Good start
<chowda> right now we only have support for london... so it's UK -> London -> [Chelsea, South Kensington, etc]
<jacobw> CGP Grey is awesome, he has other videos explaining the Commonwealth/UK/GB/England/Wales/Scotland distinctions
<penguin42> chowda: I don't know why you would want to select something based off that, but perhaps just asking for the 1st ection of the post code is best
<MartijnVdS> popey: you like the Raspberry Pi.. what do you think of the WR703N? (5x5x2cm router from TP-link -- no HDMI but WIFI, MIPS instead of ARM, less RAM but a bit of built-in flash)
<MartijnVdS> popey: oh and it comes in a box ;) And it runs OpenWRT :)
<directhex> czajkowski, i know you enjoy mocking me, but this recipe includes, say, "4 chicken breasts, skinned, poached and diced" as an ingredient. this is especially noffensive when the title of the book is "one pot wonders" - the point is it's recipes requiring a single cooking pot.
<popey> haha
<popey> not looked at it
<directhex> yes, you only need one pot to make a meal, if the ingredients are "all the other shizzle you messed up ten pots for"
<MartijnVdS> popey: Someone at YAPC::Europe had one with him, strapped to a Li-Ion battery pack :)
<chowda> penguin42: because we allow you to send things to people who you may not know their post code.. but you probably know which "neighborhood" they are in
<czajkowski> directhex: *grin*
<czajkowski> I don't enjoy mocking you at all
<MartijnVdS> popey: apparently, it uses 1W at its max
<czajkowski> I only enjoy doing that to davmor2
<jacobw> chowda: post codes are little confusing in the UK too
<popey> chowda, why do you allow such madness?
<MartijnVdS> chowda: again, just show a list of names, ask which is nearest :)
<penguin42> chowda: Yeh, I wouldn't bet on them getting it exactly right - but they might get close
<MartijnVdS> That works everywhere in the world
<jacobw> chowda: N*, NW*, W*, SW*, S*, SE* and E* are all in London, but NE* is the area around Newcastle
<chowda> popey: because we're masochists
<popey> excellent
<penguin42> chowda: Should work great for Londoners then :-)
<chowda> MartijnVdS: the number of names would get overwhelming... we need a way to drill down in a logical manner to keep the lists reasonable
<MartijnVdS> chowda: clicking a map :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: NE was demolished for the Olympic park, right?
<jacobw> Ha!
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: so it could be re-used for newcastle
<chowda> MartijnVdS: now you're just being crazy :)
<MartijnVdS> (who only got the postal system last month)
<jacobw> Hull is the only place in the UK which doesn't have British Telecom
<jacobw> Speaking the North East
<directhex> "smoked chicken with mixed salad and puy lentils"
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: What does it have? France Telecom?
<directhex> ingredients: "4 breasts of smoked chicken, finely chopped"
<directhex> MartijnVdS, a local cable monopoly
<MartijnVdS> directhex: .. yay
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: in the mists of time, a local law mandated that the town provide it's own postal system, and subsequently telephone network
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: it was called Kingston, after 'Kingston upon Hull' as the Hull is offically named
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: now it's called K-Com is owned by Britsh Telecom
<popey> oh, didnt realise BT bought it
<jacobw> Hmm, Wikipedia says it's not owned by BT but all of it's network assets are outsourced to BT
<jacobw> Which sounds similar :P
<czajkowski> directhex: I often buy pre chopped chicken breast saves time!
<bigcalm_laptop> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<MartijnVdS> !ping boo
<bigcalm_laptop> Pingu?
<popey> hmm, hungry
<bigcalm_laptop> BBQ'd Pingu?
 * popey needs something which isn't naughty
 * popey forages
 * penguin42 looks worried
<bigcalm_laptop> I had Pizza Express all on my lonesome on Euston Road
<bigcalm_laptop> penguin42: heh
<czajkowski> popey: scrambled eggs on tost
<czajkowski> tea and toast
<czajkowski> marmite on toast
<bigcalm_laptop> Kitten on toast
<czajkowski> or a banana sandwich
 * AlanBell had scrambled eggs on toast
<bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: What if popey is secretly Banana Man? Do we need him flying around at this time of night?
<AlanBell> one slice of toast, 3eggs
<bigcalm_laptop> Ooo
<czajkowski> oh fried egg on toast with DOLLOPS of lee and perins!
<bigcalm_laptop> You'll be egg bound!
 * christel eats czajkowski 
<christel> (you're the little brown mouse to my gruffalo)
<czajkowski> herrrroooo
<AlanBell> bigcalm_laptop: well my egg consumption is limited by the laying capacity so not too worried about that :)
 * popey found burgers
<bigcalm_laptop> AlanBell: I hope your chicks stay productive :)
<christel> i just splurted coffee all over myself
<popey> <czajkowski> or a banana sandwich
<popey> wretch
<christel> banana burger?!
<czajkowski> popey: :o soo tasty
<popey> seriously, who eats bananas in bread?
<AlanBell> me
<AlanBell> nom
<popey> golly
<popey> oddballs all around me
<MartijnVdS> popey: banana bread! \o/
<christel> hrmm.. i sometimes make bananabread and sometimes i have sliced banana on bread :s
<popey> banana bread, and banana beer, yes
<MartijnVdS> banana bread + cashews++
<christel> when i was pregnant i had banana on toast with salt
<christel> it was nice
<popey> banana smooshed up in a sarnie.. ew
<christel> i am not sure it would be nice now
<czajkowski> oh yes I like mine smashed
<czajkowski> my mum likes hers sliced
<christel> mind, i also went through a period of liking bread with nutella and mayonnaise... and i cant blame pregnancy for that one
<bigcalm_laptop> Hehe
<christel> (it was yester..ok it wasnt)
<bigcalm_laptop> Ha
<popey> clare ate tonnes of chipsticks when she was pregnant
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1906/detail/ happy hour \o/
<AlanBell> and what should we do for christmas?
 * AlanBell looks with interest at http://christmas.hospitalityline.co.uk/christmas-shared-parties
<popey> volunteer charity work
<popey> helping out in a soup kitchen, feeding homeless, dunno
<czajkowski> popey: thats a really excellent idea!
<MartijnVdS> "Would you like a coaster with that soup?"
<popey> something beneficial for other people rather than ourselves, perhaps
<bigcalm_laptop> AlanBell: party on the water?
<AlanBell> ok, I like that idea
<bigcalm_laptop> No soup for you!
<popey> those are just suggestions, any kind of volunteer work
<popey> clearing a canal, painting a wall, dunno
<czajkowski> It's a nie idea I thnk
<MartijnVdS> popey: clearing a canal in the middle of winter.. with ice..
<popey> just brainstorming :)
<MartijnVdS> ok :)
<popey> maybe one of those charities that packs up boxes to go somewhere ...
<MartijnVdS> They do a trash pick-up day here every once in a while
<popey> oh, thats nice, a clear up day
<MartijnVdS> they walk around the lake with bags and pick up everything from outside the paths/bins (which are cleaned by the council)
<MartijnVdS> with tweezers-on-a-stick
<AlanBell> Paula will probably be the person to talk to about this
<AlanBell> might try and pop round to fossbox to figure out some options next week after a paralympic shift
<mattt> :-/
<popey> nice one AlanBell
<popey> she did ask if someone could help a local company with some ubuntu consultancy
<AlanBell> just has to be something where I can wear a santa suit
<AlanBell> she did, I couldn't
<christel> santa suit \o/
<christel> santabell \o/
<bigcalm_laptop> Getting travel sick - toodles :S
<christel> haha
<smarqle> I have a question about Lastfm in Rhythmbox if anyone's around?
<penguin42> http://news.backyardbrains.com/2012/08/insane-in-the-chromatophores/  I can see people asking for visualiser plugins for music players for htis (what happens when you connect an ipod to a squid)
<smarqle> I'm using Rhythmbox with Lastfm and have a query. When I play artist stations they get saved in  the column on the left, but there seems no obvious way of removing them. I was hoping right clicking would do it. That's how it works with the Lastfm scrobbler client (on windows and Debian when I tried it on those)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-24
<diplo> Morning all
<daubers> WHeres popey when you want to poke him?
<em> where is ikonia ?
<czajkowski> having marmite on toast :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Afternoon all.
<em> afternoon
<em> is it really after noon in the UK?
<em> it cant be
<TheOpenSourcerer> No - just some of us have been up and doing things for ages already...
<TheOpenSourcerer> em: It's 08:42 BST
<christel> GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD MORNING :D
<daubers> Argh
 * christel tickles daubers 
<TheOpenSourcerer> if everyone ignores that maybe she'll go away ;-)
<christel> ahahaha
<christel> you hater you!
<diplo> heh, its to early to be that happy christel :(
<christel> haha
<daubers> Urgh, just discovered I need to renew my driving licence
<christel> sorry, it is my Default Mode! :D
 * christel hugs diplo 
<diplo> daubers: Mines in my calendar to alert me as I'm bound to forget
<diplo> Not till 2014 here i think
 * diplo gives christel a man hug and a little squeeze 
<christel> \o/
<daubers> diplo: An unfortunat reminder that I'm 27 in 2 weeks time :(
<MartijnVdS> daubers: only 27? :)
<christel> daubers: aww such a baby :D
<diplo> heh
<daubers> Also means that I have to go get my photo taken :(
<diplo> That's one thing I'm happy about here, I know I'm not the oldest :)
<daubers> Oooh! If I do it online, they can get the photo from my passport!
<daubers> Joined up thinking at last!
<MartijnVdS> and that at your age!
<czajkowski> daubers: you're only 27
<czajkowski> dear gods man!
<daubers> czajkowski: That's nearly past it!
<TheOpenSourcerer> OI
<czajkowski> daubers: oi!
<daubers> \o/
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<j0nr> morning all
<j0nr> Does anyone know what happens to data on Amazon S3 if you miss a monthly payment? How much warning do you get before they delete your data?
<j0nr> I'm thinking worst case scenarios if something happens to me and I can't pay or tell anyone to pay, I wouldn't want all my data to simply dissapear
<j0nr> Something just got me thinking the other day... if I got run over by a bus tomorrow, I think what would happen to all my online data....
<j0nr> in not so older times, someone personal affects would be in boxes etc in their home, so relatives could go through them...
<j0nr> my most meaningful personal affects, i.e. all my photos, are mostly stored online... I don't think anyone else would know how to access them and save them
<j0nr> Need a 'backup' thingy, that should anything untoward happen, 'someone' knows to go to it and unplug it and keep it safe
<j0nr> sorry to be pretty morbid so early, but I've been thinking about it.
<diplo> j0nr: If for me it was photos, I would be backing up to S3, not solely storing them there
<j0nr> lots of accounts, lots of passwords, lots of data... all of which noone else would know to do anything with
<diplo> I'd also be keeping a local backup
<j0nr> diplo: I have a few different places I keep copies, but yes, they are all in the Cloud... I need to get round to organising a local copy.
<diplo> You can write stuff like that into a will as well
<j0nr> need to sort my life out!
<j0nr> diplo: really?
<j0nr> what like "if I die download my stuff from XXX using password XXX"? that would be a pain to keep uo to date if you change passwords frequently
<j0nr> Well I am getting my Virgin Media fibre optic broadband soon, so I think I will christen it by downloading ALL my data to a local disk
<diplo> yeah, IU expect there are ways around all of it anyway, if you look up on amazon I expect they have a in case of death somewhere that people can retrieve stuff
<popey> morning
<diplo> I store stuff on my VPS, but I back it all up to my microserver locally
<diplo> morning popey
<diplo> Did you get that box working in the end btw ?
<j0nr> diplo: yes, same here, minus the local copy... I backup my vps to S3
<j0nr> what else got me thinking was the annoucement of AWS Galcier, the long term storage...but again, its only good if you keep paying monthly
<j0nr> if you die and stop making payments...how long before they erase your data!?
<popey> why do you care if you're dead?
<j0nr> Glacier*
<diplo> tweet them ?
<mungojerry> also, they are backups, right?
<mungojerry> but if you die, i guess direct debits will continue for a while
<j0nr> popey: been thinking, I have a lot of stuff in the Cloud, such as family photos etc... if i suddenly were unable to pay, I wonder how long before my data gets erased
<popey> make a note in your will for someone in your estate management to extract the data
<mungojerry> how much does a will cost on average? my missis is hassling me
<j0nr> popey: this is the thing, with more online accounts available, frequent password changes, noone knows the ins and outs of my personal VPS or S3 storage etc...
<diplo> mungojerry: They can vary depending on what you want
<mungojerry> write it down, seal the envelope and store it with a solicitor
<j0nr> if I ceased today, it would all be lost because no one would think or know to retrieve it
<diplo> But mines was about Â£120 for me and my wife
<popey> this worried me recently to
<popey> so i have put the password somewhere safe
<popey> which someone could use to decrypt my password list
<popey> no, not a post-it on my screen
<diplo> I need to update mine, otherwise my wife gets the house :(
<mungojerry> diplo, how many sessions did you have? i imagine they ask questions you might take a few days to decide
<mungojerry> popey, must be under the keyboard then
<popey> damnit!
<j0nr> popey: so you use a service to manage all passwords, and there is a master password to unlock them all?
<diplo> I can't remember exactly now, but basically the guy came to my house, we sat down for a few hours
<popey> yes and no
<popey> i use lastpass to manage web passwords
<diplo> then he went away and came back with it written up and we signed it
<j0nr> and you give this to someone "in case something should happen to me"
<popey> but for non-web passwords I use a gpg encrypted file
<popey> which i edit with vim, and a plugin which automatically decrypts and re-encrypts the file
<MartijnVdS> vim-gpg?
<mungojerry> having to decide who the kid(s) go to is a bit difficult
<MartijnVdS> from vim-scripts?
<j0nr> popey: and you let someone you trust know the master password.
<popey> no
<mungojerry> i have lots of bro and sis, and so does wifey
<popey> you hide the password somewhere
<popey> and then in the will you explain to that one person you trust, how they can find it
<popey> so they dont find out till after you die
<j0nr> popey: hmm, good thinking. I need to do this
<mungojerry> you could always give one half of password to one person and one to the other executor
<popey> yeah
<gord> ooh make it a treasure hunt that takes a really conviluted chain of things to complete
<gord> most funest will ever
<popey> hah
<popey> crystal maze
<mungojerry> chocolate coins
<popey> "first, build a set"
<diplo> mungojerry: We sat down and had a long discussion about
<diplo> I didn't really agree with her sister but we had to decide on two people, so it was my brother or her sister
<mungojerry> i want my kids to be brought up a certain way, so that whittles it down to 2 couples
<mungojerry> s/i/we
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: "All of #ubuntu-uk"
<TheOpenSourcerer> We set up a discretionary trust in our will. Cost a bit, but protects most of our estate from Inheritance Tax.
<mungojerry> ^^ loaded
<TheOpenSourcerer> Was. :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> And will be again :-D
<mungojerry> this time next year?
<TheOpenSourcerer> hah - not quite.
<mungojerry> i am destined never to inherit a bean off any relatives
<mungojerry> it's a good motivator to get out and work
<mungojerry> my wife brought savings of Â£0 into the marriage
<diplo> I will from my mum/dad from sale of there house, but that's about it
<TheOpenSourcerer> What? NO DOWRY?
<mungojerry> i can see how i would be seen as a good catch, she was at uni and i drove a brand new car
<diplo> And maybe my gran, she won't spend her money.. wants to give it all to my dad/auntie so she struggles on nothing to give them loads, madness!
<mungojerry> although i bought it with redundancy swag
<mungojerry> diplo, thats crazy
<j0nr> popey: do you have to install lastpass somewhere or is it all managed online?
<mungojerry> a little bit of comfort in your old age
<popey> lastpass is a browser plugin
<diplo> mungojerry: That's what my parents keep telling her, they are forcing her to spend it.
<diplo> Just put in central heating in her house with out her permission and made her pay for it
<diplo> She's really happy now, but wouldn't have spent it otherwise
<diplo> Stubborn glaswegian :)
 * diplo gets it from her I think :P
<mungojerry> on a diffrent topic i was reminded this morning of a conversation i heard on radio 5, where they said "where can you might nice men", and a woman phoned up and said go to your local LUG as the men are both nice and intelligent
<popey> wat!
<dwatkins> mungojerry: I assume that was 'meet' ;)
<mungojerry> yes, meet not miht
<mungojerry> ugh
<MartijnVdS> So.. where are "might" and "meet" pronounce the same ;)
<MartijnVdS> +d
<mungojerry> in my crazy brain
<mungojerry> its funny cos i thought LUGs were beer clubs
<MartijnVdS> aren't they?
<j0nr> popey: lastpass seems to want me to download an 'installer'... how do you use it if you are on a machine where you don't want to download and install anything, e.g. internet cafe?
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :)
<popey> internet cafe?
<popey> is this 2001?
<TheOpenSourcerer> keepass + a public/private cloud storage solution works for me.
<j0nr> I just mean, a computer that is not mine that I can't install software on
<popey> i dont
<popey> i have lastpass on my phone so i can look up passwords there if needed
<diplo> +1 TheOpenSourcerer
<diplo> + android app ( yet to use )
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: I use keepass on android
<popey> reboot time!
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: Does it work ok, I tried it once a long time ago and couldn't work out how to copy and paste the password over so haven't used it tried since ( was being lazy really )
<mungojerry> you can use keepassX and keep it in your u1 folder, but keep the key private
<diplo> yea i keep it in my dropbox folder atm ( was before u1 android version, haven't  moved it over yet )
<mungojerry> i've noticed that i can't install apps on my phone anymore, claims out of storage
<mungojerry> the apps are getting huge , play store, fb, maps , etc
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Works for me.
<mungojerry> wondering if i broke something with my phone
<mungojerry> running ROM manger fix permissions script...bit scared
<mungojerry> seems to be making everything 775 instead of600
<diplo> will give it another go TheOpenSourcerer
<mungojerry> "A Norwegian court has found that mass killer Anders Behring Breivik is sane and sentenced him to 21 years in jail"
<christel> minus the 445 days already served... :o
<MartijnVdS> "Anders" means "different" in Dutch
<christel> and he'll be out in ten! :o
<mungojerry> and protected by the state for the rest of his life?
<MartijnVdS> christel: but he won't be able to cross a red light without being taken to the police station, probably
<mungojerry> surely some people will be out to get him
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: we have the same "problem" with the guy who killed Pim Fortuyn (politician) a few years ago
<mungojerry> is he out of jail?
<MartijnVdS> there are still people say they're going to "make him pay" when he gets out
<MartijnVdS> not yet
<MartijnVdS> but he will be in a few years
<christel> ila prison are building (almost finished i believe) a new maximum security unit for him
<christel> and he'll be the only prisoner in maximum security in norway
<MartijnVdS> christel: does Norway have a system like the Dutch, where people can be sentenced to "involuntary commitment"?
<MartijnVdS> christel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment#Netherlands
<christel> (technically he could serve life as there are provisions in norwegian legislation to extend the 21 years by 5 years at the time, but by default our "maximum" sentence is 21 years)
<christel> yes, which is what the prosecution was pushing for
<christel> but the court reckons he is perfectly sane and accountable, so unless they (prosecution) appeal then he wont serve under involuntary commitment
<christel> (though there was provisions in place to build a psychiatric hospital within the new maximum security wing of ila for him, i presume that has been put on ice after the judgement)
<MartijnVdS> "If you build it, they will come"
<christel> hehe
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> howdy brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<christel> he intends to study for a degree in political science whilst serving!
<brobostigon> morning christel
<mungojerry> christel, should be enough evidence of insanity right there!
<christel> hehe
<mungojerry> political science is surely an oxymoron
<zleap> 21 years for killing a lot more than that, that works out at a month or so for each person killed,
<christel> his "cell" consists of a room, a study with a computer, a bathroom, a small gym and his own individual "yard" outside
<mungojerry> sounds like a teenage boy's dream
<MartijnVdS> christel: wasn't that how his home was furnished as well?
<zleap> christel, bloody hell,  i would have to pay Â£150 a night for that in a hotel
<christel> and he'll get Â£6 pounds a day in pocket money, more if he studies/works
<zleap> crime pays
<mungojerry> in norway
<zleap> i am sure in parts of the US he would get 25 years to life for each person killed to be served on after the other
<MartijnVdS> but would it help?
<mungojerry> well in parts of the US he would sit on a special chair...
<christel> he also plans to write (and publish presumably?) books
<christel> and to "exchange letters with his followers"
<zleap> mungojerry, thats why i said some parts
<MartijnVdS> christel: yay prison censors, I guess
<mungojerry> since it's friday i think i will trash my phone
<Dave2> I'd prefer to get Â£6 dollars per day, myself
<dutchie> mungojerry: i did that last night!
<mungojerry> dutchie, how'd it go?
<zleap> i would rather that was paid to the victims families out of what ever earnings he gets
<dutchie> it works apart from it can't make calls or receive texts
<mungojerry> minor
<Dave2> so what's the problem
<Dave2> who makes calls or receives texts anyway
<dutchie> er, send texts
<dutchie> receiving them is fine
<mungojerry> good excuse
<Dave2> who makes calls or sends texts anyway
<mungojerry> sorry i'm late home, had to go to a pub meeting but couldn't call or text as you know
<mungojerry> dutchie, what did you do btw?
 * Dave2 is breaking his PC (by which he means "upgrading from 11.10 to 12.04 on his work machine")
<dutchie> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1805450
<dutchie> that
<mungojerry> hmm did you update your "radio"?
<popey> So have we all upgraded to 12.04.1? :)
<mungojerry> of course you backed up too...
<diplo> I had to when updating my wildfire mungojerry
<diplo> for GPS to work
<dutchie> mungojerry: yeah
<dutchie> i have no idea what updating my radio was
<mungojerry> i'm moving from 7.03 to 7.20 CM
<daubers> popey: Is your VT100 now running 12.04.1 too?
<dutchie> it was just reboot to recovery, wipe and flash rom
<popey> its still in the boot of the car
<dutchie> (then flash gapps)
<popey> need to make room for it
<daubers> heh
<mungojerry> which phone dutchie
<dutchie> htc desire s
<mungojerry> did you do this? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15832698&postcount=1
<dutchie> hmm, no
<dutchie> what is it?
<mungojerry> afaik , radio is the firmware for the phone calls/messaging / cell phone stuff
<mungojerry> somebody may correct me, but it's independent of the ROM update AFAIK
<dutchie> i might investigate that after work
<diplo> mungojerry: My gps one was also called a radio update
<diplo> and yes was seperate to main cm update
<mungojerry> phew, almost delted a load of video files by mistake
 * mungojerry uses cp the next time
<mungojerry> cd
<diplo> yeah my file was called Radio_13.53.55.34H_3.35.19.25.zip
<diplo> All I know was it needed updating after reading on XDA to get GPS to connect
<dutchie> hmm
<mungojerry> diplo, what did you update to?
<diplo> From a vodaphone rom, to cm7.1 I believe
<diplo> 7.1.0.1
<mungojerry> hmm i should check my radio
<mungojerry> i'm trying to copy files from my phone but the usb disconnects when i try it :S
<diplo> Going to update to a nightly soon, but cba atm
<mungojerry> there's a stable one out
<mungojerry> oh dear , looks like i DID delete the video files :(
<diplo> testdisk
<diplo> :)
<mungojerry> i need a lie down
<mungojerry> i think the issue is a dodgy usb cable
<bigcalm> I've just added ACL into my fstab. Is there an easy way to remount the / partition without having to reboot the machine?
<mungojerry> mount -o remount /blah
<bigcalm> That seemed to work. Ta :)
<mungojerry> which is also the trick if you have a ronly / , you can type mount -o remount,rw /
<diplo> also mount -a should do that as well ?
<mungojerry> my employer is inviting staff to tell them their sexual orientation :S
<diplo> are they allowed to ask, or is it because it's 'invited' ?
<mungojerry> apparently it's due to commitment to equality. i would think that not asking might be better. anyway, results are bound to be unpresentative
<BigRedS> I read that as your employer being unsure and wondering if his employees could advise
<mungojerry> $EMPLOYER are now recording staff sexual orientation as part of our commitment to equality and diversity.$EMPLOYER wants to promote an inclusive environment where staff can be happy and comfortable in expressing themselves at work, so please update your personal details under the Equal Opportunites page
<diplo> Shouldn't make any difference on orientation imo
<czajkowski> mungojerry: seems reasonable
<czajkowski> maybe they would like to know so they can best plan other things like activies or faciities
<czajkowski> *facilities
<mungojerry> czajkowski, however whatever stats they receive will be highly varied
<mungojerry> since it's not compulsory, some people want recognition and others would rather not divulge
<mungojerry> i tend to think its better in private sector where you just dont talk about it. i tend to think the current environment worse for women to work than my experience of private sector (bar one example)
 * czajkowski is not getting going to get into this discussion again :)
<czajkowski> ----> vanishes
<mungojerry> oh yeah..lol
<mungojerry> forgot about that OScon thing
<mungojerry> wow my phone is shagged. all apps say "insufficient storage available" when try to update them
<mungojerry> i blame the SDmaid software i installed the other week
<diplo> oimon had those issues mungojerry
<mungojerry> :D
<diplo> I'd read up on it for a friend, they had found that there were some log files in /system i think
<diplo> there are apps to find/clear that as long as you are rooted.
<oimon> i think it was sdmaid that shagged it
<davmor2> Morning all
<oimon> i wonder if there's any reason why my employer might want to know my religion too
<wintellect> oimon: under what pretense did they ask?
<oimon> in the initial registration with hr i believe. but they've added sexual preferences subsequently and ask/invite  (not compulsory) you to update
<oimon> via the e-hr system
<directhex> oimon, statistics
<oimon> but those statistics are useless
<directhex> oimon, they can't legally discriminate in the uk on the basis of religion, but they can anonymously gather statistics
<oimon> since they are personal matters and people have good reason not to divulge, and not all are giving results
<directhex> someone in HR will still make a pretty pie chart
<directhex> and use it to prove that your company employs people from diverse backgrounds
<oimon> i agree its so they can say, hey look we are diverse employer , 20% of staff are muslim etc
<directhex> which is a requirement in many tendering applications
<oimon> but those stats are gonna be rubbish as not properly representative
<directhex> e.g. i have received bids before which are 50% "look, we employ the gays! we turn off our lights at night" bullpoop that oxford's university tendering process demanded
<oimon> similarly heere we have green schemes but the air con units are left on 24x7 in offices and meeting rooms
<directhex> as long as boxes can be ticked, nobody cares
<oimon> yes, sadly
<oimon> thats the truth. and to a mathematician (even pure maths person), thats sad
<BigRedS> It's quite hard to retrofit 'greenness' to a building
<directhex> bucket o' paint, job jobbed.
<oimon> its more a people culture here though. some people run the ac units at the lowest setting even on cold day
<oimon> everyone else is in coats
<directhex> our aircon throughout the office gets turned off automatically at 5:10pm.
<directhex> this is vexing because it includes my server cupboard
<oimon> lol
<oimon> what's the benefit of backing up system data with titanium restore?
<bigcalm> Keeping application data between reinstalls
<oimon> isn't that the app data option?
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> Anybody here use zsh?
<christel> my parents confuse me :(
<directhex> honey badgers confuse me
<bigcalm> Confucius confuse me
<christel> yesterday i nearly crashed my dad's car because i got so distracted by the video from the rear camera that i totally didn't look where i was going
<bigcalm> A reversing camera in a _car_?
<christel> today my mum is all "could you just go check the camera for our house in the island to see what the weather is like? oh and whilst you're logged in could you just turn the heating on so that it is nice when we get out there in the evening?"
<christel> bigcalm: indeed
<bigcalm> A big car?
<christel> not particularly
<bigcalm> Ooo, remote heating controls
<christel> they are becoming way too technogeeky for me!
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> My parents brought me up to be a geek but I'm still giving them tech support
<christel> bigcalm: expensive car though! i spent the rest of the day terrified of totalling it purely because i knew that it cost upwards of Â£80K
<bigcalm> Ah, maybe this is why they brought me up to be a geek in the 1st place!
<christel> (who the hell spends that much on a car?!)
<bigcalm> Haha, oh dear
<oimon> scandies
<christel> oimon: hehe yeah
<christel> he also religiously replaces his cars every 18 months as he doesn't like "old cars"
 * oimon discovers i have Â£42 in my amazon account unspent
<oimon> christel, wow, not even a 36 month old car is old
<christel> my freenode volunteers have decided that i must have grown up in a palace, it confuses them that i keep going to our several different houses whilst in norway
<oimon> summer+winter?
<christel> kinda -- we have two "summerhouses" on the coast, one about 3 hours drive south of where we live (where we're off to shortly) and another 5 hours drive further north, we also have an old farm (though i believe that is being sold, it is no longer a working farm and hasnt been for as long as i can remember) about an hour and a half away from home up in the mountain, a smaller house in the mountain just at the arctic circle (so just ...
<christel> ... an hour away from home) and a log cabin in a wintery lovely place down south (trysil)
<christel> (and then o course home)
<christel> oh and two largeish boats (i am terrified of water!)
<oimon> sounds like how the russian royalty used to live
 * diplo is jealous of christel 
<Mr_Tinkles|Work> hi
<Mr_Tinkles|Work> what is a good spectrum emulator?
<daubers> Mr_Tinkles|Work: A spectrum!
<Mr_Tinkles|Work> daubers, yeah, if only mine still worked (bad read heads on tape drive and bad power caps)
<popey> the fact that you're asking about spectrum emulators with the word "Work" in your nick amuses me
<gord> fwiw, Fuse ;)
<Mr_Tinkles|Work> popey, yeah, its kinda co insidental
<daubers> Mr_Tinkles|Work: I have a 48k I was going to take the mobo out of at some point if that would help you (as yuours has a tape drive I assume it's the 128?)~
<Mr_Tinkles|Work> daubers, thar might help
<Mr_Tinkles|Work> daubers, yes its a 128
<daubers> Mr_Tinkles|Work: Or take it to your local hackspace (tm) I know ours has an original 48k (with rubber keys) lying around.
<dutchie> daubers: weren't you going to do something interesting with the spectrum?
<Mr_Tinkles|Work> daubers, in fact the mobo has some bad diodes and caps so yeah
<daubers> dutchie: I'm going to put a modern mobo in it
<daubers> When I have a)time and b) cash :)
<Mr_Tinkles|Work> daubers, don't know what workspace â¢ is
<Mr_Tinkles|Work> *hackapace
<Mr_Tinkles|Work> hackspace
<daubers>  /o\
<daubers> They are like the most awesome places in the world ever!
<daubers> http://hackspace.org.uk/view/Main_Page
<dutchie> must get on with my hackspace project at some point
<Laney> better than the inside of a marshmallow?
<Laney> I THINK NOT
<Mr_Tinkles|Work> daubers, I see
<daubers> Laney: The inside of a marshmallow is fluffy and tasty, but still falls to ruin when you add hot chocoalte
<daubers> hackspace + hot chocolate = win
<oimon> i think i've royally shagged my phone:(
<gord> hackspaces are like the communal modern version of dads shed
<daubers> then hot chocolate + marshamallow = win
<daubers> so therefore marshmallow = hackspace = win ?
<daubers> gord: But with LASERS!
<oimon> so toasted marshmallow?
<daubers> and robots!
 * daubers may have had too much sugar
<oimon> i officially work in the most disgusting office in the world
<oimon> someone's been wiping bogeys on the wall
<oimon> and we don't have any 9yr olds working here
<daubers> oimon: Draw around them with a sharpey and put a post it note next to it saying "I know who this was...."
<daubers> then nerf the worried looking person?
<oimon> i thought i knew who it was, but they left and the colection has grown
<penguin42> oimon: Don't you have a DNA sample of all your colleagues?
<oimon> i don';t even read their mail
<oimon> it always surprises me that there are IT support staff i know who use ubuntu on their work PC but always use the defaults and never know about whats the best handy app to use etc. i.e. they are average joe users, despite being clever techies at their job
<AlanBell> https://www.tickets.london2012.com more tickets have been released
<gareth_> Hi everyone
<gareth_> I did one of the most satisfying things there is to do yesterday, who can guess what it is?
<bigcalm> gareth_: opened a new jar of coffee?
<bigcalm> Breaking the seal is wonderful
<oimon> make pancakes without ruining the first one?
<brobostigon> flipped a pancake, wioth messing it up?
 * penguin42 wonders if gareth_ has been getting enough roughage
<gareth_> Nah, buy a new laptop and wipe Windows without even giving it the chance to complete the first boot!
<oimon> did you get a refund?
<oimon> \o/
<gareth_> Next question, why am I on this nick and not my normal one?
<cliftonts> That's better
<cliftonts> This laptop has real issues. NEVER BUY A PACKARD BELL! The sound is horrid, the keyboard broke after 4 HOURS!
<cliftonts> However Ubuntu seems unwell too. An 11.10 install upgraded to 12.04 as those were the only discs I had. The window controls are showing up on the right. Now why would that happen?
<oimon> cliftonts, what happens if you create a fresh user and login?
<cliftonts> Good question oimon. I'll give it a go
<oimon> lost all my SMS messages :( i thought titanium would bring thiem back
<cliftonts> Right, creating a new user fixes it
<oimon> unity --reset might fix it for your normal user too
<directhe`> u-ni-ty
<directhe`> easy as
<directhe`> one two three
<directhe`> or simple as
<directhe`> do re mi
<directhe`> u-ni-ty, one two three, baby, you and me girl!
<oimon> does a little dance .............\o/
<cliftonts> The other issue is my browser went monochrome
<cliftonts> it's of now but everything was grey
<cliftonts> the reset didn't fix it but of course I can install a tweak tool to sort it, I'm just curious about why it's happened in the first place
 * davmor2 prods christel about postcards and czajkowski just cause I haven't :D
<cliftonts> oimon?
<oimon> yes?
<Azelphur> does anyone else use thunderbird+gmail? it seems very slow to load mails for me for some reason
<oimon> Azelphur, turn off the local download of data
<oimon> it's on by default
<Azelphur> like 14 seconds to download a small plaintext mail lol
<Azelphur> ok :p
<diplo> Azelphur: yeah i use it, think it sucks though.. use web interface more
<cliftonts> Can anyone remember what the tweak tool was that included the option to switch the location of the window controls?
<cliftonts> I know there's one out there but forget what it's called.
<oimon> unsettings/ubuntu tweak/
<Azelphur> oimon: happen to know where that setting is?
<oimon> Azelphur, right click the folder
<oimon> properties ->sync
<oimon> disable offline use
<Azelphur> oimon: seems to already be disabled
<oimon> there's also a more general setting which i disable too
<oimon> you could maybe disable global search and indexer if you only use the filters
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> doubt that's gonna shave 14 seconds off, I mean I'm on a very fast machine and thunderbird isn't pulling a lot of resources
<diplo> I keep meaning to re-try evolution again
<oimon> haha
<oimon> ev--crash---o---crash---l--crash...
<cliftonts> All sorted!
<oimon> anyone know where is the setting on android that disables the unlock passcode for 5 minutes after entering it ?
<oimon> ah got it in cyanogen settings
<oimon> interesting: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/yr180/thats_why_we_cant_have_nice_pdfs/
<MartijnVdS> oimon: nah
<MartijnVdS> you don't want to depend on imagemagick, because it's not a small single-purpose library.. it does ALL the things
<MartijnVdS> also, it contains parsers for all kinds of file formats.. which the other libs used already do
<MartijnVdS> heh
<MartijnVdS> if you Google for "keming", it reduces letter spacing so "kerning" looks like "keming" (etc.)
<MartijnVdS> and looking for "kerning" increases letter spacing
<BigRedS> I need to make a deb file out of a pear module. Is there some officially-sanctioned way of doing it?
<oimon> couldn't it be enabled depending on whether you had imagemagick installed though?
<MartijnVdS> http://pear-package.alioth.debian.org/ ?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: ^
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: that has explainings
<MartijnVdS> oimon: it needed to be compiled like that anyway..
<MartijnVdS> oimon: better to find/write a library (or fix the current one) that does just the one required thing
<oimon> yes true
<oimon> nobody gonna do that though
<oimon> i wanna try kde 4.9 on a live cd - any suggestions?
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, doesn't appear to apply to Squeeze, though. And I'm not sure why I'd need to apt-get source php5...
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's West dean Chilli Fiesta Weekend :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.westdean.org.uk/Events/GardenEvents/ChilliFiesta.aspx
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: for compiled modules with bits of C?
<MartijnVdS> (think XS in Perl, Python has something similar as well)
<BigRedS> Ah yeah, I suppose
<BigRedS> I forgot they did that sometimes :)
<MartijnVdS> heh.. http://satwcomic.com/gangnam-style
 * oimon mrembers to get the humble bundle android
<BigRedS> Hm. Think I'll just build this on my machine and stick the .so file in a deb package; seems easiest :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: that's how packaging works.. except in a clean chroot (pbuilder)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, I just assumed all the cruft inthe tgz was there for some reason; I've built packages for installing scripts before
<penguin42> hmm, electricity suppliers are a pain; they can't guarantee when a transfer will go live, but I don't want it to happen before the end of my current tarriff
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: mine switched last Monday.. but I still haven't received the card with which I can tell them the meter readings
<MartijnVdS> (so they don't guesstimate)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh it took EDF when I transfered to them 6 months to sort out their online system to let me give them a gas reading
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: But then they did take the figure I'd recorded back then
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I've switched to "Nuon, part of Vattenfall"
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I doubt they'll do the UK
<MartijnVdS> Vattenfall is in the UK
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: As a windfarm builder by the looks of it, not a supplier
<MartijnVdS> ah yes
<diplo> Anyone know anything about kacpid
<diplo> And why all of sudden it would use 100% cpu, not kernel update and been fine
<diplo> Temps ?
<diplo> Can't install lm_sensors ( not supported ) and not shown in snmp results
<penguin42> there are a few reports of that happening to people
<diplo> yeah found the same, can't find a good answer and the server is a couple of 100 miles away :D
<diplo> Old and probab;y quite rubbish
<penguin42> ah that's annoying - so you don't fancy doing a remote bios upgrade then :-)
<diplo> heh
<diplo> NO :)
<diplo> acp=off on cmd line if they don't want to open it to seem if fans aren't working
<diplo> if it goes bang it's there problem
<diplo> :)
<penguin42> diplo: Some suggestions of repeatedly restarting acpi stuff sometimes fix it
<penguin42> also running apid -d  to get some debug from it
<diplo> Resource busy
<diplo> :P
<diplo> what happens if i stop acpid any ideas ?
<penguin42> diplo: Well, you're too far away to see the smoke....
<diplo> Really old kernel, would it be that dependant on it :/
<diplo> I still feel it's a hardware fault, or temp problem as nothings changed software wise
<penguin42> anything in dmesg?
<diplo> nope, nothing anywhere.. tried installing lm_sensors but IBM's aren't supported and then installed snmp but you need some paid for IBM software to get snmp oid stuff from their agent
<diplo> I think someones going to have to visit the site
<penguin42> temperatures off the hard drives with SMART?
<penguin42> what's the server monitoring thing that starts with i... the one over ether
<diplo> icinga ?
<diplo> smart not installed, may try that tuesday though
<penguin42> bah, can't remember - the one that's used for remote control
<penguin42> bah
<diplo> most of these tools are dependant on snmp/lm info from what I know/can find out
<penguin42> ah, ipmi was what I was thinking of
<diplo> Ooh that's new one on me
 * diplo quickly googles
<penguin42> probably won't help you
<penguin42> diplo: Do you have a /sys/class/hwmon at all?
<Darael> I discovered this morning that I'd accidentally uninstalled all the kernel images from my exlaptop^Wserver.  Then, after using the minimal CD to get in with rescue mode and fix that, I rebooted to find the initrd didn't have lvm tools in it.
<penguin42> haha that's a pain
<diplo> Nope penguin42
<penguin42> oh well
<penguin42> diplo: You could force reboot it with sysctl and see if it comes back :-)
 * MartijnVdS quits jsing for the day
<Darael> I fixed it.  Turned out the same accident had removed the lvm2 package, so I just had to go back into rescue mode, install it, and update-initramfs -u -k all.  It was still annoying.
<diplo> Server reboots fine penguin42, but kapcid goes 100% pretty much straight away
<penguin42> hmm
<Darael> But it was a valuable learning experience:  A system will keep running quite happily for days after one uninstalls all the kernels, and one won't find out until reboot unless one goes looking for it.
<em> ikonia: are you here?
<penguin42> diplo: what cpu/vintage?
<diplo> Intel Xeon 3.4ghx from dmidecode
<diplo> I think it's a xSeries 225
<penguin42> diplo: You could try a modprobe coretemp and see if you get any hwmon entries
<diplo> from what I can work out from serial
<diplo> ooh tried a few modprobes but not coretemp
<diplo> ta
<diplo> not found
<diplo> :/
<penguin42> hmph
<diplo> I'll let the other guys sort it out ( I'm supposed to be software now adays ) I've tried about 100 things more than they have and still got no where
<diplo> + i finished at 5 :D
<penguin42> diplo: Consider how good the server has been to you previously .....
<ikonia> em: sorry, didn't see, I wasn't active in this channel but I'm here now.
<diplo> yeah, 100% mate.. these are out customers who hate spending cash, you really don't want to see what runs out systems in some places
<ikonia> em: whats up ?
<diplo> penguin42: Thanks for your input though
<penguin42> np
<diplo> A few extra things i hadn't tried
<em> Am I correct in assuming that ikonia is Joffrey Baratheon?
<ikonia> em: you've made that joke approx 3 times that I'm aware of now....you've pinged me to tell me that again......
<ikonia> em: is there a reason you are trying to waste my time ?
<em> ikonia: I want to know how long Ive been banned in #ubuntu and why
<ikonia> em: well, you know the channel is #ubuntu-ops and you know why I've explained it approx 3 times, but if you join one of the operators can help you
<diplo> catch you all later, off to pick up a puppy for dog sitting duties for the night
<em> ikonia: why should I have go to into that inappropriate channel when you were the one who set the ban, inappropriately, and you dont even know how long it has been or why.
<ikonia> em: I do know why, as I've explained to you 3 times, that is the appropriate channel to discuss ban resolution and I know exactly how long as it's logged, I'm not discussing it with you in this channel, one of the operators can help you in #ubuntu-ops
<AlanBell> em: please take the conversation to -ops, it will not continue here
<em> AlanBell: it is well known that #ubuntu-ops is filled with trolls who damage the image of Ubuntu.
<AlanBell> off you go now o/
<christel> :o
<davmor2> christel: is that a troll face?
<christel> yus!
<christel> or my "it is raining and i am wet face"
<dutchie> hmm, rain
 * dutchie hopes it has stopped so he can have a dry dog walk and not a wet dog walk
<davmor2> christel: just tell the rain to go away, I mean you're obviously a scary troll so that should work right ;)
<darkham> hi people, i need help about an upgrade of mesa drivers on ubuntu 10.04
<MartijnVdS> urr
<MartijnVdS> why not upgrade the entire machine to 12.04 (the new long-term stable release)
<darkham> i can't use ubuntu 12.04 in a pc with an R300 ati card, i've random freezes
<MartijnVdS> Why do you need to upgrade mesa then?
<darkham> MartijnVdS, because for R300 cards, many tweaks and important updates, was releases later the 7.7.1
<darkham> the only inside ubuntu 10.04
<penguin42> darkham: Your chance of getting it to work mixed between 10.04 and 12.04 are approximately nill
<MartijnVdS> darkham: and 12.04 ;)
<davmor2> darkham: but then you wind up with the version in 12.04
<MartijnVdS> darkham: I think it'll be easier to get rid of the hangs in 12.04
 * penguin42 agrees with MartijnVdS
<darkham> penguin42, MartijnVdS , in 12.04 i've random freezes, i can only hard reset, no alt+SystR REISUB
<MartijnVdS> darkham: try opening a ssh session to a remote machine, start "tail -f /var/log/Xorg.0.log" and wait for a crash
<MartijnVdS> That helped us figure out some crashes on my coworker's machine (by googling the error messages)
<darkham> MartijnVdS, not so bad...
<darkham> but in forums many users have my same problem, related in some xorg bug
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<darkham> MartijnVdS, i can tell you that before the latest kernel update, i haven't any problem.
<MartijnVdS> so it's a kernel bug?
<MartijnVdS> Maybe try the Quantal kernel (12.10 alpha)
<darkham> i suspect...but i don't remember an upgrade of xorg
<MartijnVdS> between releases, Xorg tends to be upgraded
<darkham> i tried a daily build, and i had the issue.
 * MartijnVdS switched to Intel a while ago
<JamesTait> Have a great weekend, everyone!
 * JamesTait waves
<MartijnVdS> \o JamesTait
<WebPigeon__> darkham, it's possibly the updated drivers causing the problem...
<darkham> WebPigeon__, possibily. the mesa inside 12.04 are 8.x branch
<darkham> the latest mesa officially supporting R300 cards are the 7.11.2
<darkham> that i would try to install on the 10.04
<popey> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<brobostigon> evening popey
<popey> uhoh
<popey> haha
<popey> popey sets ban on  *!*em@unaffiliated/emma
<AlanBell> heh, we had a chat about appropriate use of this channel
<davmor2> popey: made the mistake of saying that the ops were trolls
<AlanBell> davmor2: Ubuntu and UK and random other stuff here, not ops discussions
<AlanBell> speaking of which, it is NEARLY CHRISTMAS!!!
<zleap> oops
<davmor2> AlanBell: indeed, but ops aren't trolls, they are nice people doing a crappy job.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: only A FEW MONTHS
<AlanBell> davmor2: yes, they are
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: want a bag of pepernoten? :)
 * davmor2 tapes AlanBell 's fingers shut so he can't type about xmas again
<AlanBell> mmmhmmm mmmhm mmmm </kenny from South Park>
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepernoot
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: I like the look of your pepper nuts
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: they're "Sinterklaas" candy (December 5th), but stores start stocking it ~now-ish.
<Azelphur> yay google, apparently I can watch movies from google play just fine on my tablet, but if I want to watch them on my PC I'm in the wrong country
<davmor2> oh well it's about that time have a great weekend everyone
<davmor2> Moo
<oly> Evening, wonder if any one can answer me this, has HAL been replaced in current ubuntu, i have run a program i wrote a while ago and noticed hal is not installed ?
<oly> Obviously i could just install it, but thought i would check if there is something else i should be using
<MartijnVdS> udev
<MartijnVdS> what kind of device are you accessing?
<oly> um, custom i had this code before self.hal_manager_obj = self.bus.get_object("org.freedesktop.Hal", "/org/freedesktop/Hal/Manager")
<MartijnVdS> yes, that's just the hal manager
<MartijnVdS> But what do you use it?
<MartijnVdS> for
<oly> I will look up how to do something similar with udev
<MartijnVdS> there's udisks for disk stuff.. and upower for power related things
<oly> usb detection, so i knwo when a device is pllugged in so i can act on it
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> libusb can do that
<MartijnVdS> or if it's a one-off, an udev rule
<MartijnVdS> (which fires a program once when a USB event you're interested in occurs)
<oly> well its more detect the device, so i can read and write data to it
<MartijnVdS> libusb?
<MartijnVdS> there's libudev
<oly> maybe i shall look into these thanks, all i knwo is i wrote it using hal a while back :)
<MartijnVdS> yeah they figured out HAL wasn't the best possible idea a few years back
<oly> yeah i figured i was just behind the times :)
<GaryLittlemore> Any idea why my system isn't upgrading to 12.04.1?
<MartijnVdS> GaryLittlemore: because you didn't tell it to? :)
<AlanBell> GaryLittlemore: what is it at the moment?
<MartijnVdS> GaryLittlemore: what are you running now?
<MartijnVdS> if you were running 12.04 before, you'll have 12.04.1 automatically after installing all (security) fixes
<GaryLittlemore> 12.04, run the software updater and no new updates?
<MartijnVdS> GaryLittlemore: check /etc/issue
<MartijnVdS> and lsb_release -a
<GaryLittlemore> in noob language where do you mean?
<AlanBell> GaryLittlemore: nothing exciting will happen for you, it is more exciting for the 10.04 people who will now be offered the distribution upgrade
<AlanBell> GaryLittlemore: cat /etc/issue
<MartijnVdS> GaryLittlemore: where are you seeing you're running 12.04?
<AlanBell> in a terminal
<GaryLittlemore> system settings> details> 12.04 LTS
<oly> huh, did not know you could go that gui route, however that is not accurate :p
<oly> mine says 12.04 in the gui but i am in fact on 12.04.1
<GaryLittlemore> so how do I check in terminal?
<AlanBell> mine says 12.04 LTS and I am on 12.10 Quantal
<oly> GaryLittlemore, do what has been suggested though, open a terminal and type in lsb_release -a then hit enter :)
<AlanBell> someone should file a bug about that . . .
<oly> yep, still undecided weather to update to 12.10, tempted to play with the new unity panel stuff
<GaryLittlemore> oh thanks, it'll try that now. don't know commands in terminal
<oly> I usually go through the development cycles but have not this time for some reason
<GaryLittlemore> Distributor ID:	Ubuntu
<GaryLittlemore> Description:	Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS
<GaryLittlemore> Release:	12.04
<GaryLittlemore> Codename:	precise
<MartijnVdS> so.. you're on 12.04.1
<AlanBell> yay, you already have it
<MartijnVdS> :)
<GaryLittlemore> lol Thanks all
<AlanBell> so what is the thing that is system settings?
 * popey is filing a bug
<MartijnVdS> popey: again?
<popey> :)
<popey> about the above
<popey> bug 1041369
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1041369 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "System Settings -> Details doesn't match lsb_release -a" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041369
<popey> if anyone fancies confirming
<penguin42> has anyone managed to get Linux onto a Blackberry playbook?
<penguin42> they're stupidly cheap; PC World is sellling the 64GB one off for #129
<penguin42> hmph, no one has broken the boot loader
<MartijnVdS> no one has one
<penguin42> almost worth it for the components
<ali1234> i'm sure that is not true
<penguin42> ali1234: What's interesting is if you look at the price differences between the 16,32,64GB versions of tablets, they're massive difference - but the cost isn't that great between them
<smarqle> I have a puzzle with Ubuntu on my netbook - it's first time I installed on there and during the install procedure Webcam was supported, to add my pic, but when I restarted it was no longer supported. Why would that be? I don't want to use the webcam, but it has left me very curious
<ali1234> did you update?
<ali1234> most likely the driver was broken in an update
<ali1234> it happens all the time with webcams
<smarqle> Good point. That makes sense
<ali1234> also what app are you using?
<ali1234> if the answer is "cheese" then ... well, find something better
<smarqle> The system didn't install any
<smarqle> I don't know what the live CD was using
<ali1234> the thing in the installer that takes a picture of you?
<smarqle> Yeah
<ali1234> i don't know what that is but it isn't cheese
<ali1234> so what are you using post-install?
<smarqle> I don't want to use the webcam so I haven't bothered, I was just curious and your answer makes perfect sense to me. I'd be amazed if you weren't right, so I'm satisfied now
<ali1234> how do you know it doesn't work then?
<smarqle> Well I presumed if it was supported the software would have been installed?
<ali1234> ...how do you know the software isn't installed?
<ali1234> ubuntu always installs the exact same software no matter what
<smarqle> When I use lshw it doesn't show up
<penguin42> smarqle: If you use lsusb does it show up? If you unplug it and plug it back in does lsusb show up? If you plug it into a powered hub does it show up?
<ali1234> it's a netbook
<ali1234> it has a built in webcam
<penguin42> ah ok
<smarqle> It's a built in Webcam why would it be on the USB port?
<ali1234> because they always are
<smarqle> I could try that OK
<penguin42> smarqle: I hadn't noticed it was internal - but it probably is internally connected via usb
<smarqle> you're right it does show with lsusb - I  never thought of that (dummyme)
<penguin42> ok, that's good
<smarqle> I guess it is supported then but software isn't installed, which is fine by me. I'm not the sort of age where a cam shows me in a very good light anyway :)
<smarqle> I'm very impressed with Unity on a netbook - it never made sense to me on a larger screen to be honest
<smarqle> So everything on her works except for the built in bluetooth. I was going to look up what hardware is in here and see if there are drivers available for that chipset, unless you know a short cut?
<smarqle> Is there a command to probe the bluetooth hardware by any chance?
<BigRedS> what do you want to probe it for? Find out what it is?
<BigRedS> lshw and lspci are good tools for getting details about hardware, there's a good deal of overlap in their utility
 * BigRedS reads back and sees that lshw has already been tried
<n1md4> anyone use iscsi much?
 * penguin42 has played with it in the past
<n1md4> ok, i'm trying, and have an output from my remote client from vgdisplay.  being a xen box i'm using the export iscsi vg for vms, but when i try to boot a client from said vg i get "Error: Disk isn't accessible"
<n1md4> and although lvdisplay shows /dev/vg/lv there's actually nothing in /dev/vg to connect, so indeed, the disk is not accessible.
<n1md4> so, i'd like te know how it can be?
<penguin42> hmm, I don't know Xen
<penguin42> but that sounds like you have lvm set up to export lvm lv's as iscsi targets
<n1md4> ah ... figured it out, the lv status' were inactive.  I had to use vgchange -ay vg in order to bring it back
<penguin42> right, yeh that's lvm layer
<n1md4> I want to figure out how to get all this to happen automagically
<n1md4> there's also 2 sides to this, the iscsi host failing, and the xen host failing ... lovely!
<penguin42> n1md4: I'm not quite sure I understand your setup; I guess it's a xen host with some space that's a volume group, of which one or more logical volumes is exported as iscsi to the guest - or is the iscsi on a separate machine?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-25
<popey> *yawn* morning
<em> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<popey> \o/ weekend
<em> hm, yes it is isn't it.
<MartijnVdS> Woo, BBC also posted the _time_ at which they'll broadcast the new Doctor Who episode!
<MartijnVdS> Next week, 19:20
<popey> ooh
<popey> strictly starts too i think/
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.bbc.co.uk/tv/guide/bbc/london/20120901
<MartijnVdS> doesn't look like it.. there's Proms on 2
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's starting in NL though.. with lots of B and C-list "celebrities"
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://avro.nl/strictlycomedancing/ in case you're interested :)
<MartijnVdS> uhr.. wut
<MartijnVdS> I get BBC Radio 1-4 on DVB-T as well now?!
<mattt> MartijnVdS: you should just move here
<mattt> then you can get everything all the time :P
<MartijnVdS> mattt: DVB-S works fine for me :)
<christel> GOOD MORNING
<popey> correct
 * MartijnVdS 's javascript h4xx0r1ng worked! \o/
<jacobw> you used a hack saw?
 * jacobw wonders if googe's pdf reader can translate contents yet
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<jacobw> morning
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
<bigcalm> Ug morning
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Have I missed out on any fun this week?
<oly> Anyone here playing Guild Wars 2 on ubuntu out of intrest ?
<davmor2> Happy weekend all
<penguin42> and a happy long weekend it is
<raphasaurus> hi
<raphasaurus> does anyone have experience with the 3 dongle?
<raphasaurus> It appears to require some software installation for it to work. On windows it involves hitting the 'run' key but don't know how to get the dongle to work on Ubuntu
<penguin42> in principal the network manager should take care of it
<penguin42> it should show up as a Mobile Broadband device
<popey> which specific 3 dongle?
<popey> most "just work"
<popey> The Huawei ones tend to work best. I have the E353 HSDPA+ which is pretty good
 * MartijnVdS switched to a Mifi. Wifi always works.
<popey> yeah, i dont use mine much anymore
<popey> tend to share out the phone more often
<MartijnVdS> but I agree, that's not a solution for the current problem :)
<raphasaurus> ok, thanks, unfortunately, I don't have the dongle here in front of me, but just thought I'd ask
<popey> raphasaurus, generally googling the exact model and "ubuntu" turns up something
<raphasaurus> popey, k, thanks I will do that.
 * popey fiddles with openwrt
<popey> hope to get it doing bridging
<MartijnVdS> popey: that's the easy bit :)
<popey> oh?
<MartijnVdS> popey: if you need help, shout :)
<raphasaurus> ok
<raphasaurus> bye
<MartijnVdS> raphasaurus: good luck!
<popey> ok, so the plan is to put this AP in the middle of the house for best reception, connected to an ethernet over power device
<popey> it wont be the dhcp server
<MartijnVdS> popey: Like mine then :)
<popey> yay
<MartijnVdS> let me find the /etc/config
<popey> it has some config on it already for when it was a backup AP
<popey> for doing 3g sharing
<popey> need to rip that out i suspect
<popey> heh, the ESSID is OggCamp11
<MartijnVdS> popey: what kind of device is it?
<popey> Netgear WNDR3700
<popey> woohoo, found a tomboy note with some notes in from the past
<MartijnVdS> popey: can you pastebin /etc/config/network and /etc/config/wireless? (you can censor passwords if you like :))
<popey> once I can get into it!
<popey> \o/
<popey> remembered WPA key
<popey> "popeyisawesome"
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<raphasaurus> currently dual-booting windows/ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> popey: are you in yet? :)
<raphasaurus> my mother says to keep windows and asks "why" use ubuntu when  you have windows already. I 'm not sure what to say. Is there a website I can point her to?
<popey> "It's better"
<popey> "I prefer it"
<raphasaurus> :)
<popey> not quite MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/netgear/wndr3700 -- there's a failsafe mode you can start in
<popey> its okay, it's just a logistics/cable issue
<popey> my ac100 has no ethernet port
<popey> so i can either be online or connected to the AP in question
<popey> so hard to pastebin
<popey> but not impossible
<popey> have to keep switching AP back and forth
<MartijnVdS> you can't connect over wifi?
<popey> i can
<popey> but the ac100 has only one wifi card
<popey> so i cant be online and be connected to the ap
<MartijnVdS> ah.. you can't connect the AP to a switch then?
<popey> i can but it gets an ip then disconnects
<MartijnVdS> that doesn't help :)
<popey> i saw it get an ip from the other AP and then drop it
<popey> yay, am in
<popey> will copy/paste everything and then pastebinit it in a mo
<popey> MartijnVdS, does it lock you out if you incorrectly login a few times?
<MartijnVdS> popey: no
<popey> hmm
<popey> i got in just now, but now it's giving me connection refused
<MartijnVdS> telnet or ssh?
<popey> ssh
 * popey reboots it
<MartijnVdS> In that case.. I'd re-flash without keeping settings first :)
<popey> i cant even recall how to flash it :)
<MartijnVdS> the openwrt wiki knows :)
<popey> nvm, am in
<MartijnVdS> in /etc/config/wireless,, in the "wifi-iface" section, check the "option network"
<MartijnVdS> then look for that in /etc/config/network
<MartijnVdS> and which ports are in that network
<MartijnVdS> ("config interface <network name here>")
<popey> hang on...
<penguin42> popey: USB-ether?
<popey> oh yeah, i have one of them on my desk :)
<popey> duh
<popey> will fail, same ip range on both ap
<MartijnVdS> time to get a second laptop ;)
<popey> thats why I am using the ac100
<popey> typing to you on thinkpad
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1166198
<MartijnVdS> the wifi interface is in the "lan" network (= bridge)
<MartijnVdS> that network also contains the "eth0.1" port, which I guess to be the switch
<MartijnVdS> so anything on the "switch" ports is on the same network as the WLAN
<MartijnVdS> you can change the "option proto static" to "option proto dhcp"
<MartijnVdS> and remove the ipaddr/netmask lines
<MartijnVdS> then it DHCPs on that port as well
<MartijnVdS> (but static address = useful if it drops DHCP, as you claim it does)
<MartijnVdS> you can remove the "interface wan" for ppp0, I guess
<MartijnVdS> the entire block
<popey> yeah
<MartijnVdS> you can disable its DHCP server using.. wait..
<popey> would it be easier to just revert to clean?
<popey> bah, disconnected from it
<MartijnVdS> that would help, I guess.. the OpenWRT wiki also has lots of docs about the config file format
<MartijnVdS> http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/uci#configuration.files
<MartijnVdS> and http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/recipes/bridgedap
<popey> ta
<popey> is there a copy of the default config?
<popey> i mean, in that bridgedap guide it says that it assumes default config
<popey> woooot!
<popey> that was easy
<popey> phone connected via ap chained to other AP with dhcp from the backend one
<popey> \o/
<popey> thanks MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> popey: remove everything from /overlay and reboot to get defaults back
<Azelphur> Twitter is joining the Linux foundation http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/24/twitter-joining-the-linux-foundation/ :D
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS: did you expect Van Persie to move to Utd?
<MartijnVdS> GentileBen: I have no idea
<MartijnVdS> who is he?
<MartijnVdS> what is utdf?
<MartijnVdS> -f
<christel> MartijnVdS: a footballer and manchester united ;)
<christel> a dutch one at that
<MartijnVdS> christel: meh football :)
<christel> hehe
<christel> i believe he plays in your national squad but has played professionally for arsenal i think for a few years before moving to man u
<christel> it is a bit sad that i know this!
<MartijnVdS> I like to avoid football :)
<jacobw> fuÃball
<Azelphur> anyone know how to start a new X screen to VNC into with a specific resolution?
<jacobw> export to VNC with a particular resolution?
<Azelphur> jacobw: ?
<penguin42> Azelphur: You mean start a VNC X session with a given res - how do you normally start it (there are a few ways)
<Azelphur> penguin42: I don't normally start it, that's why I'm asking :P
<penguin42> Azelphur: Do you have one of the vncserver packages installed?
<Azelphur> I installed vnc4server just now
<penguin42> hmm, not used that one before
<popey> vncserver --geometry
<penguin42> Azelphur: should be vncserver -geometry 1920x1080
<Azelphur> vncserver  :1  -depth 16  -geometry 1280x736 got it running with this, only problem now is that I only seem able to connect to it locally
<popey> it should be accessible on the LAN
<Azelphur> it doesn't seem to mention a port anywhere
<penguin42> Azelphur: You mean X or vnc connect?
<popey> 5901
<Azelphur> VNC
<Azelphur> popey: that's the one, ty :D
<AlanBell> would that use llvmpipe?
 * penguin42 doubts it
<penguin42> hmm I guess it would have to - is there any docs on it?
<popey> surely not, vnc has been around and worked without a 3d video driver since well before llvmpipe
<penguin42> popey: Yeh but it looks like Mesa on the client side is the one with llvm, so within a vnc session it should use it
<guest-34929> hii al
<guest-34929> how i can save 20 sec of video file from 10 back and 10 forwrord?
<penguin42> guest-34929: kdenlive lets you edit video files - if that's what you mean?
<penguin42> how to install it however is a different matter
<guest-34929> penguin42: i want the camera will take a fideo file alll athe time.. but when it get a triger, it need to save 20 secendes of video file, 10 secends before the triger and 10 secends after the triger.
<penguin42> ah right, motion detect type of thing ?
<penguin42> guest-34929: Might be worth trying the 'motion' package
<guest-34929> penguin42: i have debian based linux
<guest-34929> penguin42: how i can see the camera?
<penguin42> guest-34929: Well, motion is in the ubuntu package repo - and it looks like it just came from debian - so sudo apt-get install motion should install it; seeing a camera, the simplest program is 'cheese'
<guest-34929> penguin42: but it only text mode
<penguin42> what's only text mode?
<guest-34929> my linux
<penguin42> guest-34929: well displaying a video camera in text mode is not going to be very useful; install X
<penguin42> (there probably is an SDL based thing or aa - but that's not that useful is it)
<guest-34929> how i can do it?
<guest-34929> apt-get install x?
<penguin42> guest-34929: It looks like you have some more basic 'how do I start using debian' type quesitons - and you're probably better asking that on a debian help channel
<guest-34929> but ubuntu = debian?
<guest-34929> debian = ubuntu server
<penguin42> guest-34929: no
<penguin42> guest-34929: They're related but not the same
<penguin42> guest-34929: Ubuntu is based on debian but with a whole chunk of changes, especially when it comes to installation and X setup
<guest-34929> penguin42: ok. it work now on gnome desktop envairment
 * penguin42 grrrs at Android - a nice green tick next to 'Application not installed' with no explanation
<smarqle> Installing Ubuntu Restricted Extras gave me pause for thought. I haven't seen a non-games site that needed Java for years now. I used to use Think Free, but Zoho made that redundant some time back
 * hamitron cuddles his wp7 phone
<popey> its not just games that use java
<popey> many corporate internal sites use java
<smarqle> I know that's true in theory. I just can't think of recent example I've come across
<smarqle> I wasn't counting Intranets no. That would be the main case now?
<popey> i suspect so
<AlanBell> http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/visitmuseum/events/events_for_adults/Lates.aspx this looks like an interesting thing, free evening stuff at the Science Museum on the last wednesday of each month
<penguin42> smarqle: even then my experience is that they tend to have very specific versions needed
<christel> AlanBell: i love the science museum
<popey> http://doodle.com/6vcb8a6rcgcewhf6 not impressive jam turnout
<AlanBell> squillions of things use serverside java with jboss/tomcat whatever
<christel> apparently those evening dos are tons of fun too
<popey> AlanBell, you on up to date quantal?
<popey> can you replicate/confirm bug 1041583 ?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1041583 in Unity "Dash home opens files by default, should be applications?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041583
<penguin42> popey: Might help if it was on: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/1901/detail/
<AlanBell> popey: works for me right now, but I have updates to do, will do them and test again
<smarqle> How can I decide if something is a bug or just works in a way I don't like? I don't like that you can't remove your lastfm station history in Rhythmbox. Is that  bug or just a feature I don't like?
<popey> i'm not putting it there till we know how many people will come
<penguin42> popey: Actually there don't seem to be many things listed on there
<AlanBell> popey: unable to reproduce
<AlanBell> tried on a guest session to in case it was oddness in my profile somewhere
<smarqle> So why would a bug like that only happen for a very few people? Not for. just tried it
<smarqle> Another bug I was thinking of reporting is that pidgin-twitter doesn't work. That's not a big deal because pidgin-microblog does, but surely the old one should have been removed from the apt-cache search?
<Laney> I need ideas
<Laney> I just moved house and after reconnecting my PC at the new place it doesn't turn on
<Laney> nothing at all happens when I press the button
<Laney> I tried resetting the CMOS and changing the battery because I thought it was on the way out
<Laney> also shorting the power pins incase the button was broken
<Laney> there's a light on the motherboard which is illuminated to indicate it is getting power
<soreau> Laney: That doesn't mean the power supply is still good
<soreau> First thing you should suspect is broken PSU
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> ?
<popey> I'd unplug all power juicy things like drives
<soreau> If the PSU isn't functioning correctly, I wouldn't try to use it at all
<Laney> the P183 is a beautiful case for getting to stuff â¥
<penguin42> well you don't know it's the PSU - it's a good guess, but it's also possibly a bad peripheral - so strip it down to the basics
<Laney> did
<Laney> i'll try and find someone to lend me one
<popey> i have one you can borrow but I'm probably not nearby
<Laney> not unless you moved to the midlands :-)
<popey> :)
<penguin42> computers don't like being switched off and moved; it's unsettling; they get used to things, just have a nice spot, with a nice view....
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: tell that to my laptop
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Laptops can travel a lot when they're young and still have that wonderlust
<brobostigon> advice, when is the right time, to appear, at music venue,impromptu, on saturday.?
<brobostigon> rephrase, when is a correct time, to appear?
<MartijnVdS> when does it open?
<brobostigon> as we speak.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: they will be playing all night.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it is rumoured dave pegg will be around.
 * brobostigon better get ready he thinks.
<MartijnVdS> I tend to show up about 15 minutes before the door opens... so I might not be the best person to ask :)
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> Staff will love it if there's a customer if you're early (and one of few customers) :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: think being,i dont know an exact time, which makes things difficult.
<christel> i dunno, i am always late for everything
<brobostigon> i tend to like be early.
<christel> hehe
<brobostigon> christel: my autistic side.
<brobostigon> ok, bbl, have fun everyone.
<christel> have fun brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> you also christel :)
<christel> i shall! :)
<MartijnVdS> christel: No fun allowed in this channel!
<MartijnVdS> Only serious Ubuntu discussion!
<christel> aw boo :(
 * MartijnVdS plays with his new shiny toy
<MartijnVdS> Made it myself, with jQuery(-UI) and HTML5!
<christel> \o
<MartijnVdS> (I built/maintain a "paid wifi" infrastructure for a large camping, and the ~8 year old Perl scripts + HTML templates were in need of a refresh)
<christel> ooh
<MartijnVdS> So I rebuilt it as one HTML page which calls the server-side scripts (I've modified the scripts to return simple bits of JSON)
<MartijnVdS> it looks a lot cooler too
<MartijnVdS> only a few features left to build
<MartijnVdS> (stats, forceful logout, stuff like that)
<Azelphur> I just had a cool idea too, I was trying to come up with a way to make links in conky clickable
<Azelphur> and now I've ended up with a hacked together semi-functional HTML/CSS powered conky type thing
<MartijnVdS> I'm really impressed with how easy jquery-ui is
<MartijnVdS> actually, I'd always dismissed javascript as a silly language.. but it's cooler than I thought :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: The syntax is awful, but it's in so many places and wired in to so much that it can do a lot
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I think it's not strict enough (and I'm a Perl coder ;))
<mattt> people still use perl?
<mattt> kidding
<MartijnVdS> mattt: there was even a conference this week
<MartijnVdS> mattt: in Frankfurt
<mattt> like a highschool reunion?
<MartijnVdS> mattt: More like "Look at the cool things you can do with Perl now".. also it's not as ugly anymore if you know what you do :)
<mattt> i'm just kidding
<mattt> when i first started playing w/ linux, everyone used perl
<mattt> but brb, dinner time ;P
<MartijnVdS> yeah that's "old" perl :)
<MartijnVdS> now people look at you weird if you don't at least "use warnings;" and "use strict;"
 * SuperEngineer still has "learn Perl in 24 hours" on dsk...  hmmmm brain thinks...all those years back??
 * mgdm has that on dead tree
<mgdm> never
<mgdm> never did quite get around to it
<SuperEngineer> [but thenre again - I wrote DOS batch files that people couldn't belive - yes they were that good
<SuperEngineer> [&yes - it was long ago]
<MartijnVdS> heh, I remember that time too
<MartijnVdS> but I was in school so nobody cared
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ;)
<SuperEngineer> [I was in a professional job - guess I showing my age here]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: your FIRST job?
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: unfortunately not... clue: I used to do Unix before Linux
<MartijnVdS> so, you used to catch the dinosaur to work?
 * SuperEngineer shakes walking stick
<jacobw>  /o\ perl
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: /o\ Perl from <2005
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: I used to be [& still am] a protagonist [read annoyance] to that firm for reminding them the world had updated itself
<SuperEngineer> [& there was a *nix now beginning an 'L']
<jacobw> http://perldoc.perl.org/perlref.html
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: what's wrong with that? That's _easy_ :)
<jacobw> i really hate the documentation style
<MartijnVdS> Most things were written long ago
<jacobw> "this thing is kind of closures, and kind of like this other term that only used in the perl world, hey, let's move on the next topic"
<jacobw> 'blessing'
<jacobw> ARGH
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: try this: http://perldoc.perl.org/perlreftut.html
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: blessing = making a reference special, so you can call methods on it :)
<MartijnVdS> (you bless it with a class name!)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: if you don't understand, add "tut" to the name ;)
<jacobw> all new perl developments have an odd thing in common
<jacobw> they make it more like python :D
<SuperEngineer> ...did anyone guess I might be over 21? What gave it away?  Don't answer... I know the answer ;)
 * jacobw is 21
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: happy birthday
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: this is good :)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's the beard.
<SuperEngineer> double ;) ;)
<jacobw> is it a neckbead?
<jacobw> haha
<christel> HAPPY BIRTHDAY YOUNG jacobw <3
 * SuperEngineer had a beard once.. never again thanks
<christel> i have never quite managed to grow a good one
<SuperEngineer> [all those flees & mosquitoes! -yuk]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but.. extra meals!
<MartijnVdS> christel: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrowingTheBeard ?
<christel> haha
<SuperEngineer> christel: so grow a bad one - call it "my baaaadboy beard"
<jacobw> my birthday was nearly 3 month ago ;)
<christel> i struggle with growing a bad one too!
<christel> jacobw: aw
<jacobw> i didn't say i was 21 _today_
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: you are still 21 though, right?
<jacobw> yeah
<MartijnVdS> so you ARE 21 today
<christel> i wish i was 21
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: no - *i* did!
<MartijnVdS> christel: you're 18, right?
<christel> MartijnVdS: i love you
 * jacobw hides in a corner
<SuperEngineer> & if I did - you're 21 2day
<jacobw> that doesn't seem like an answer christel :D
<jacobw> unless loving MartijnVdS implies being 18
<christel> haha
 * SuperEngineer wonders about MartijnVdS / christel relationship
<AlanBell> the fountain of youth \o/
<jacobw> that'd be a great superpower, if a person loves you they become young
<jacobw> that'd be a better episode of buffy :p
<christel> jacobw: i am of such an age that anyone who suggests that i might be younger than middleaged (!) automagically gain my love for life ;)
<SuperEngineer> if a person loves you, *you* become young - surely
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: so THAT's why you're old?
<jacobw> ouch :o
<christel> aw boo, noone loves me.. this is why i am so old :(
<jacobw> christel: aw :)
<SuperEngineer> nah - I 27 - i'm loved plenty
<SuperEngineer> [mostly by me]
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
 * SuperEngineer never learnt to count higher than 27 ;)
<christel> haha
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19381098
<jacobw> shucks
<SuperEngineer> [don't need to on my planet]
<christel> AlanBell: MartijnVdS is the fountain of youth?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: Awww
 * christel plans a trip to holland
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<AlanBell> oh no :(
<SuperEngineer> christel: make sure you shave before going to Holland!
<AlanBell> I was at an event with Neil Armstrong as a speaker
<christel> SuperEngineer: i er, uhm, ok i will
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: the real Neil Armstrong?  me jealous
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: he didn't do that often
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: yeah, 3 years ago
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: no, it was *really* rare, someone knew him personally and asked
<AlanBell> err, 5 years ago
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: BBC broadcast "Being Neil Armstrong" a few weeks ago
<AlanBell> http://www.zdnet.com/neil-armstrong-lands-at-lotusphere-3039285620/
 * mgdm had just been reading through some space-related books of late, he featured in a couple
<mgdm> (Failure Is Not An Option, notably)
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: so you've both met a spaceman & work for a spaceman -  pretty damn cool
<AlanBell> I don't work for a spaceman
<SuperEngineer> uh?
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~not-canonical
 * SuperEngineer giggles
<jacobw> http://www.snopes.com/glurge/communion.asp
<Laney> how likely is this jam to happen?
 * Laney would be interested but would like to buy train tix in advance
<christel> popey was investigating space at canonical hq wasn't he?
<AlanBell> http://doodle.com/6vcb8a6rcgcewhf6
<christel> ooh! i pay no attention do i!
<christel> Laney: i assume it will happen :)
<popey> it will if people decide to come
<Laney> you have agreement to host it there?
<Dave2> mmm, jam
<popey> yes
<Laney> fair
<Laney> would be nice to work out of the office for a day anyway
<popey> with some caveats
<Laney> - no neckbeards
<Laney> - sandals must be worn without socks
<popey>  - no debian developers
 * Laney alt-f4
<popey> hah
 * jacobw hugs debian
<AlanBell> I was so tempted to put sandals on over my socks the other day, too hot for shoes and too cold for no-socks. I resisted the temptation.
<jacobw> i personally see nothing wrong with that combination
<christel> i would have lost all respect for you :o
<SuperEngineer> christel: +1
<Laney> http://open.spotify.com/track/6LZB5SNqBMMwM5KHKdCzgy good tune itt
<SuperEngineer> socks / sandals???? mathematians tried the equation & ansered it with the result - "yuk"
<SuperEngineer> *answered
<SuperEngineer> here's a strange one - I use single click in Nautilus to move around,,,  after converting a whole bunch of files fron wav to mp3 I was involuntarily back on double click. had to reboot to regain control.
<SuperEngineer> ...who asked for my prefs to converted at the same time - not me!
<SuperEngineer> [mind you cpu was at 100% useage during conversion - so I suppose it's congrats actually to Ubuntu for not getting any more confused than that
<popey> AlanBell, you might be interested in http://accessiblecomputingfoundation.org/
<popey> there is a current discussion on mumble
<popey> ch1.teamspeak.cc:64747
<Dave2> mumble on a domain containing "teamspeak"? How confusing.
<Azelphur> mumbleteamspeak :p
<popey> AlanBell, you're echoing
 * AlanBell changes microphone
<extrasolar> I would like to go to a linux user group in london
<extrasolar> but am I too young?
<extrasolar> I'm about 20
<Dave2> Probably not.
<Dave2> I was younger when I first started going to a LUG.
<StrontiumCat> RIP Neil Armstrong :(
<penguin42> extrasolar: LUGs tend to have a wide range of people
<extrasolar> right
<extrasolar> Hopefully people can relate to me
<popey> extrasolar, you are not too young
<extrasolar> in that case
<extrasolar> I'm confident I'll go
<Azelphur> extrasolar: I went to the Ubuntu release party when I was 18 lol
<extrasolar> how was it?
<Azelphur> actually I think I was a few days before 18 and not technically allowed in since it was a pub, but I went anyway
<Azelphur> extrasolar: was fine, although I imagine a LUG would be different to a release party :)
<extrasolar> fair enough
<mattt> 20 too young?
<mattt> people are running businesses at 20 :)
 * AlanBell is too young
<mattt> AlanBell: isn't it your bed time
<AlanBell> or too old, I can't remember which
<extrasolar> so are LUGs drinking clubs?
<jacobw> er, if the drink is tea, then yes :p
<jacobw> LUGs do have a range of people
<jacobw> i don't know what to set $CLASSPATH to find java.*
<mattt> extrasolar: were you home schooled?
<extrasolar> no
<extrasolar> I wasn't schooled at all :P
<mattt> extrasolar: whatchootalkinbout?
<extrasolar> yes
<mattt> tho to be fair, LUGs have kind of gone the way of perl
 * mattt looks at MartijnVdS 
 * BigRedS ponders rising to it :)
<BigRedS> extrasolar: Gllug is
<BigRedS> it's largely equivalent to the London Perl Mongers, though. The membership is nigh on identical, but all the arranging of pubs is on london.pm's list
<extrasolar> Oh i see
<jacobw> hmm, updates-alternatives openjdk-6-java cannot find java.lang, this can't be normal
<BigRedS> That said, since funtimes with the gllug list a while ago I've not received any mail. It might've moved without my following...
<Azelphur> Sigh, Amazon keeps telling me they'll get back to me and then never getting back to me
<Azelphur> rude :(
<smarqle> Azelphur: Customer service dept?
<Azelphur> smarqle: yea
<Azelphur> I asked them for a microsoft tax refund, they said they'd get back to me before the 17th, they didn't so I messaged them and they said they'd get back to me before the 23rd and they didn't :(
<penguin42> Azelphur: In the uk ?
<Azelphur> think I'll give em one more chance and then hit up the complaints department
<Azelphur> penguin42: yep
<penguin42> Azelphur: Since when can you get a MS refund in the UK?
<Azelphur> penguin42: since forever afaik?
<penguin42> Azelphur: Have you ever succeeded?
<Azelphur> penguin42: never tried, theopensourcerer has done it multiple times and he's UK afaik
<penguin42> hmm
<penguin42> Azelphur: I suspect your problem is that it's gone into the support org and hit the 'He wants to do WHAT?'
<Azelphur> penguin42: yea, pretty much lol
<smarqle> A lot of these companies really drag their heels on that one. There was case recently about it where someone sued a vendor and won. I wish I could remember and link to it
<Azelphur> smarqle: yea there's a few cases like that
<Azelphur> penguin42: I just quoted EU consumer law at them
<penguin42> Azelphur: Which particular EU consumer law is that?
<Azelphur> The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumer regulations 2002 requires that the retailer replace the faulty item, or if that is impossible provide you with a refund. The Sale of Goods Act gives you --> the right to partially reject items <--. Essentially you assert your 'statutory rights"
<penguin42> can you arbitrarily reject it - or only if you find fault?
<penguin42> Azelphur: I mean if you bought a car and decided you didn't need the passenger seat, could you carefully take it out, return it to the vendor and ask for a refund?
<Azelphur> penguin42: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/08/pressure-mounts-on-windows-tax/ is the page on the subject :)
<smarqle> I don't think that's the law that won the case. I'm sure it was some element of contract law, as long as you don't start the computer in windows. First start has to be from a live CD and then you haven't seen the EULA so you aren't bound by it
<Azelphur> smarqle: lol simply seeing an EULA doesn't make you bound to it, you actually have to agree :P
<Azelphur> smarqle: By reading this you are legally required to send me all your monies :p
<penguin42> Azelphur: Oh I see, hmm saying you're not agreeing to the EULA, because you hadn't seen it up front - are you sure the Amazon page which had it on sale didn't say that there was a license with it?
<smarqle> Yeah but as I understand it after windows has started you have already received the goods
<Azelphur> penguin42: *shrug*
<Azelphur> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Ideapad-Laptop-Windows-Premium/dp/B004TQQCAS
<smarqle> If windows never starts you haven't and you were charged for something you never received
<Azelphur> smarqle: when you buy an OEM laptop first boot asks you to accept the license
<Azelphur> I simply didn't accept it and then stuck a Ubuntu CD in there :p
<Darael> Since the Windows setup process on first boot for an OEM-installed machine explicitly states "To use Windows, you must agree to this EULA", one has not received usable goods unless one then agrees to the EULA, surely?
<smarqle> Yeah that's what I mean. If you make the first boot from the CD then you never received windows, in the legal sense of the word
<Azelphur> Darael: yep :P
<Darael> It usually then has another, below, saying "To use your /computer/, you must agree to *this* EULA", and it's a licence agreement that doesn't mention using the computer at all, just the use of the vendor-installed bloatware.
<Azelphur> yea, the windows license also says that it can be returned to the manufacturer
<Azelphur> so either amazon or lenovo has to cough up :p
<smarqle> I think you can win on the sale of goods act but you get bogged down in what constitutes a sale and what is a licence which is too expensive for most people to pursue
<smarqle> And I think the key word their is manufacturer; ie not the vendor
<Azelphur> indeed
<smarqle> wrong there sorry
<Azelphur> so if I loose at amazon I just go bully lenovo instead
<Azelphur> haha
<penguin42> Azelphur: How much are you hoping to get back?
<Azelphur> penguin42: I dunno
<Azelphur> maybe Â£30 or something
<penguin42> Azelphur: If I was them I'd tell you to return the whole thing
<Azelphur> penguin42: they tried that, I declined.
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/August/2012-08-10-150952_1908x1170_scrot.png
<penguin42> Azelphur: So, what do you reckon to the car analogie?
<Azelphur> penguin42: not really the same, you can take the car seat out and resell it, the car seat is also crucial to the cars function and is a non-optional component
<Azelphur> where as with a Windows license, I can't resell it, it's not a requirement of the machines function, and it's thrust upon me :(
<penguin42> Azelphur: The car seat's not crucial - if you are single and you never want to use the other seat
<smarqle> Reading Google News, I just noticed all the cases were won against manufacturers and none against vendors
<Azelphur> penguin42: then ya can take it out and sell it :D
<penguin42> Azelphur: By your argument though it would be easier for me to return it to the vendor
<Azelphur> ?
<smarqle> Two against Lenovo ironically, who defended each case though :(
<penguin42> Azelphur: Actually, thinking about it, the difference here is the fact you're claiming it's faulty; and I'm not with the car seat
<Azelphur> good point :)
<penguin42> Azelphur: Now, if I was Amazon I'd bury in the T&C's somewhere a 'if you're buying something with software, then you agree to the license on the software that you know that you're buying'
<smarqle> Reading more it looks like no company has willingly done this; they all fought it into the courts :(
<smarqle> It's funny though. I tend t buy from local suppliers and each one knocked Â£25 off for a bare bones system. It seems like it's only a big issue for big companies
<penguin42> smarqle: For big companies it's just 'a standard model' that they;'re selling, with everything in
<penguin42> smarqle: Dell will do it if you order via their business side for most of their desktops/servers (or did a few years ago when I used to order from them)
<smarqle> I notice with Dell, many of their refurbs already come OS free. I rarely buy new. I'm too much of a treehugger :)
<penguin42> smarqle: I'm too much of a tight b*****
<Darael> penguin42: I think defining a purchase as including agreeing to the licence when the person can't necessarily read the licence before buying is illegal on the grounds of unconscionability.
<smarqle> Well there's that too penguin42 :)
<Darael> That's probably why they don't do /that/.
<penguin42> Darael: Then provide a link; I think MS's stuff is all on their site
<smarqle> I'm pretty sure, it would also run contrary to the Distance Selling act Darael
<Darael> That's the thing, though - not everyone's is, and to put it in the Ts&Cs, they'd have to make it practical for /any/ purchase including software.
<smarqle> Software is already exempt but the hardware can't be
<Darael> smarqle: That sounds likely, yes.
<penguin42> Darael: Interesting point - do you want to try and get a refund on the BIOS if you put coreboot on?
<smarqle> I'll tell you something very odd though. I bought from the old Mesh a few years ago and they knocked Â£30 off the price but according to their saleswoman, they couldn't actually prevent me receiving the preinstalled Windows I hadn't paid for; now that's weird
<shauno> could you put coreboot on without using the bios/
 * penguin42 hands shauno a jtag lead
<shauno> not sure my mac has headers for that ;)
<Darael> penguin42: If I could get the price of the BIOS pinned down, and it seemed enough to be worth it, why not?  Could be that there's more of an argument to it being part of the product, though?
 * penguin42 hands shauno a soldering iron
<Darael> It'll have somewhere that one can be soldered in, at least, shauno - Apple will want to be able to refurbish it after they convince you to buy a new one :P
<penguin42> Darael: That's kind of my point though; it's a very grey line as to what's part of the product; why does it matter if the OS is stored on disk and the BIOS in flash; especially if it was an SSD
<smarqle> I've definitely read that firmware is a grey area and there are always terms stating you flash it at your own risk. It was tested in court with that Wii jailbreak that let you play videos as I recall
<Darael> penguin42: Yeah.  The OS is definitely on the not-part-of-product end of that grey-area, and the BIOS toward the other side, but where the line should go seems to be anybody's guess.
<smarqle> Having said that the US case went against Apple so who knows
<Darael> Flashing the BIOS (or other firmware) in any manner but an "approved" one is a reasonably fast way to invalidate one's warranty, but it shoudn't be blockable by software licensing.
<penguin42> Darael: If you think about a phone where it's all in the same flash chip then it seems odd to discriminate - why discriminate ona  PC?
<smarqle> But isn't only part of the ROM writeable on a PC whereas all the card is on a phone? I'm splitting hairs butâ¦
<Darael> penguin42: If it looked to be worth the effort in terms of the monies one would get back, I'd be absolutely in favour of trying to get a refund on the BIOS if one used a JTAG connector to install coreboot instead.
<smarqle> I think the way forward is really open hardware in the end
<Darael> Genuinely open hardware would indeed be nice.
<penguin42> it would; it's proving difficult to get/make
<smarqle> I've used Linux a few times but I'm only now reading about the philosophy. It's a great idea if only it can be made to stick
<smarqle> But there are so many powerful vested interests ranged against it :(
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-26
 * MartijnVdS files a bug on the (shiny, I admit) gdocs scope
<christel> good morning pretties
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * christel knuffels MartijnVdS 
<christel> hoe gaat eet met u? (that was probably not real dutch!)
<MartijnVdS> eet = het
<MartijnVdS> and if you "knuffel" someone, you tend to say "je" or "jou", not "u" :)
<MartijnVdS> christel: Goed hoor :)
<christel> oh!
<christel> one day i will learn dutch properly! :D
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> After all, Norwegian is just another Dutch dialect :P
<MartijnVdS> Just like Frisian
<christel> so that i can flirt with you without anyone realisi... wait i mean...
<christel> haha
<christel> it is SUNNY today, this makes me very happy
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<extrasolar> Bitcoins
<christel> morning brobostigon, extrasolar
<christel> brobostigon: how was the gig? :)
<brobostigon> morning christel
<brobostigon> christel: went fine, :)
<extrasolar> Hellos
<extrasolar> to all
<brobostigon> morning extrasolar
<christel> brobostigon: \o/
<brobostigon> christel: :
<brobostigon> :)
<extrasolar> so is bitcoin legal in the UK?
<extrasolar> It seems no one knows
<extrasolar> anyway
<extrasolar> g2g
<AlanBell> it isn't legal tender which means you are not obliged to accept it in settlement of a debt
<AlanBell> but it is not illegal as such
<MartijnVdS> Do bitcoins come with pics of the queen on them?
<BigRedS> yeah, there's no such thing as an illegal currency in the UK, you can pay your debts in pigs if you like
<soreau> MartijnVdS: They're probably made of solid gold with a picture of Yoshi on them. And when you collect one, you hear this sound http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfkcI8dhfsQ
<bittin> http://twitter.com/big_ben_clock
<Laney> how do I get the record tasks on duolingo to work?
<Laney> the mic works but the website just says it can't hear me
<MartijnVdS> Laney: is it flash?
<MartijnVdS> you might have to allow Flash to use the mic
<MartijnVdS> (right click, settings)
<Laney> I think so, and it is allowed
 * Laney tries some stuff
 * MartijnVdS ducks, covers
<popey> hmm, amazon.co.uk appears broken
<popey> images don't load
<penguin42> popey: I'm seeing some broken on boingboing as well - it's taking it's time to load stuff
<bittin> cost me 1crown per mb to surf :(
<popey> hmm, yeah, seeing it on twitter too
<bittin> Tele2 has destroyed my fiber :(
<penguin42> popey: which network/browser?
<bittin> hope its fixed tommorow
<popey> virgin media
<popey> firefox
<penguin42> popey: Hmm, demon
<penguin42> popey: chromium - so no overlap
<popey> just doing wget https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/101298134/BFE031709_normal.jpg  fails
<popey> ssl issue maybe
<penguin42> popey: Oddly, for me it's working in ff, but not chrome
<penguin42> hmm, it's back
<popey> yeah, works here too now
 * penguin42 reads a g+ post by Dave Airlie about bugs due to the flashing cursor; 'last one was flashing cursor during hibernate overwriting ram!' - classic
<popey> :)
<popey> one of my fave bugs is bug 248619 where openoffice won't print on tuesdays
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 248619 in file (Ubuntu Karmic) "file incorrectly labeled as Erlang JAM file (OOo does not print on Tuesdays)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248619
<penguin42> ah yes, that is a classic
<penguin42> popey: What's interesting about that one is there is near to know way it would have been spotted in any OOo testing scheme you could imagine
<penguin42> with any better than a 1/7 chance
<popey> still seeing broken images on twitter
<popey> makes me think it's an AWS or S3 issue
<bigcalm> Good morning^W afternoon peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> good day, bigcalmian
<bigcalm> Did anybody else catch the lurgy from oggcamp this year, or was it just myself and Hayley?
<penguin42> popey: All green on http://status.aws.amazon.com/
<popey> probably a dodgy virgin media proxy then I guess
<penguin42> popey: But I don't think that explains why I saw it; I'm demon/thus, owned by C&W so that shouldn't be playing with any virgins
<MartijnVdS> nope.. jquery.com is breaky too
<MartijnVdS> _something_ is wrong on tinterweb
<bigcalm> Works for me
 * SuperEngineer sighs with relief - 2 days off & [music] project completed
<SuperEngineer> & howdi all
 * SuperEngineer relaxes, sits back & lets rhythmbox takeover
<bigcalm> I've finally found some error log info on my mysql problem: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1167957/
<bigcalm> But I don't know how to find out why it's running out of memory
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm: coz you haven't enough installed memory... does it use swap space & fills that too?
<bigcalm> There's half a gig of memory on the VPS
<bigcalm> I honestly don't know how to read `free` or `top` to understand memory usage :(
<bigcalm> I fail at being a geek
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: free lists kilobytes , free -m lists megabytes
<SuperEngineer> derrr - if *that* ain't enough - you need to shout at it "naughty sql, behave yourseelf"!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: top also specifies it has "KiB" (* 1024 = bytes of memory)
<SuperEngineer> [sorry - in too good /relaxed mood today
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF9fqx4H_Cg
 * SuperEngineer looks curiously at link
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I understand that bit on both, but I don't know how to read if swap is actually being used or if it's just reserved
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://serverfault.com/questions/85470/meaning-of-the-buffers-cache-line-in-the-output-of-free
<popey> bigcalm, is it ubuntu server + wordpress + mysql + php 5.3?
<popey> +apache
<bigcalm> popey: yes
<bigcalm> popey: and gitlab
<popey> this is why I switched to lighttpd
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: like the vid -thanks
<popey> i have seen 4 machines do this now
<bigcalm> I have never had a problem until 12.04. And this is the only machine that has such trouble
<popey> it's common enough that I can spot it a mile away :)
<SuperEngineer> ooo - that's beetter - "Thunderstruck" from PC - loud through the sound system - go sub-woofer - go ;)
<SuperEngineer> [and now Perfect Day (Lou Reed) - perfect] - why did I wait so long to use pooter as sound driver - doh!
<SuperEngineer> BBC reports that Jerry Nelson, the voice of Sesame Street's Count von Count, dies aged 78 :(
<jacobw> does anyone know if the java liscening issues have caused main libraries to be removed?
<jacobw> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1168010/
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: I think you're down to open source [JDK] only on repositories these days - can't remember exactly when but was removed for reason for suggest
<penguin42> bigcalm: thoughts; run sysstat and enable it to collect regular memory/load info, you can dump it out later and see if the amount of free memory is slowly dropping; top in memory sort mode to see if anything else is eating RAM, use 'df' watch the amount of RAM used in /run, /run/shm and /dev (i.e. any of the tmpfs ones), finally /proc/slabinfo and /proc/meminfo give some very low level memory usage stats
<jacobw> i know why it was removed, and what now provides java in ubuntu, i just don't know if it's stripped of the packages found in the classpath of oracle distributions
<jacobw> java.lang seems a big thing to be missing, i'm not sure if it's even possible for that to be missing
<bigcalm> penguin42: thank you, all useful information I will try not to forget :S
<bigcalm> This is the output of mysqltuner: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1168018/
<bigcalm> I think I need to sort mysql out
<jacobw> bigcalm: using innodb?
<bigcalm> jacobw: where I can, yes. Looks like some systems have installed themselves using myisam
 * bigcalm kills off civicrm and vtiger :D
<bigcalm> Damn, that made no difference :(
<bigcalm> How would I go about changing myisam databases to use innodb?
<jacobw> myisam in deprecated in >5.1 IIRC
<jacobw> which version are you running?
<bigcalm> 5.5.24-0ubuntu0.12.04.1
<jacobw> ah :)
<bigcalm> If I use ALTER TABLE foo ENGINE=Innodb; Would I need to alter programs that use those databases?
<jacobw> i don't think so
<bigcalm> Good
<jacobw> i think mysql-server abstracts to interface to the database, the engine is table level and the interface is database level
<jacobw> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/converting-tables-to-innodb.html
<BigRedS> bigcalm: only if they do MyISAM-specific things, but I don't think there are any really
<BigRedS> Innodb is hideously fragile, though
<BigRedS> really, only migrate to innodb where there's a clear benefit to going there, so on tables that particularly want row-level locks or transactions
<SuperEngineer> Lcawte|Away is now known as annoying msg ;)
<jacobw> at least it isn't actual away message
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: ;)
<SuperEngineer> "d" - I started with "d" - yup that helped - I feel soo much better now
 * BigRedS is puzzled
<SuperEngineer> BigRedS: see the topic ;)
<BigRedS> SuperEngineer: ahhh!
<SuperEngineer> ;)
 * SuperEngineer notices that even Tweedle Dee has changed name to "d" tweedle, stating: "it helps" ;)
<SuperEngineer> [Tweedle Dum doesn't seem to care]
<SuperEngineer> Solid State Quantum Computer Finds 15=3x5 â 48% of the time [ SuperEngineer laughs ]
<penguin42> gah, wikimedia upload rules are a pain; I was about to fix their page on Eve's pudding which didn't have a picture of one; but you have to have an account that's 4 days old and have made 10 other edits before they let you upload
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: looking on the bright side -  you don't have to ask the Equadorian embaasy as well ;)
<penguin42> true
<BigRedS> Anyone know roughly how long and hard a Zimbra upgrade is? Open source to open source, no funny business. Just can't fidn any docs on Zimbra's site
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: AlanBell knows
<BigRedS> aha! I'll quiz him later. Customer can't possibly be expecting an answer on a sunday evening. Ta!
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - Q!I Xl has just announced Alan Davies as being from another planet... odd that - I don't recall seeing him when I was there ;)
<MartijnVdS> but.. what else is there to do on Sunday evening than IRC?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: there are more than 2 planets
<stgraber> MartijnVdS: assuming both versions are supported and you do a full backup of /opt/zimbra (rsync or similar) before doing the upgrade, it usually goes pretty smoothly
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: oh, there's _loads_ to do :( It's just a matter of which fraction of my todo list I remove
<MartijnVdS> stgraber: --> BigRedS
<BigRedS> stgraber: aha! Ta!
<stgraber> MartijnVdS: indeed, sorry :)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: but I visited all the others on my way here!
<BigRedS> Any idea on time usually? I'm guessing it's not particularly mailstore-size dependent or anything?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qriH-8yeqcE ?
<BigRedS> I think I've done one before and it was trivial, but I might be making that up
<stgraber> BigRedS: all you need to do is run the zimbra installer, it's going to detect it needs to upgrade, will update the packages, update the DB and LDAP schema then run a few tests
<stgraber> BigRedS: doing the backup of /opt/zimbra will take the most time, the rest can usually be done in around 30min in my experience
<BigRedS> oh, awesome
<BigRedS> ta!
<stgraber> np
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: luvit! [but  didn't know someone was filming my arrival!]
<MartijnVdS> â¥ discogs
<MartijnVdS> (Good CDs for â¬2 :))
<SuperEngineer> I boyght a PC to sound sys lead today.  assistant went on about the gold plating [ignoring my basic request of a mininum lead lengrh].
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: amazon basics :)
<SuperEngineer> Got my my own back, I started [but not completed] a lecture on plating quality causing extra impedence
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you know too much!
<SuperEngineer> and bad coating being scraped away anyhow on 1St conxn
<SuperEngineer>  - if manufacture to standards is high quality]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: But it has argon bubbles trapped in the conductor!
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ...I stopped the argument when his jaw dropped in defeat...
<MartijnVdS> And the conductor was weaved by specially-picked maidens!
<SuperEngineer> always -hand picked maidens - [read into that what you want] ;)
<MartijnVdS> hand-picked maidens (m/f)...
<SuperEngineer> ...
<SuperEngineer> I live by a rule that hand-picked maidens are always than hand-picked noses!
<SuperEngineer> *better than
<SuperEngineer> When we all wake up tomorrow, dont forget to start the day with "d"
<SuperEngineer> [You don't have to start with "d" to be here, but it helps]
<SuperEngineer> re /topic
<SuperEngineer> I intend to go "doh!"... that starts with a "d"
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: and don't forget to end with "y"
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: lol
<MartijnVdS> ... @ amazon
<MartijnVdS> DISPATCH ESTIMATE Saturday 15 Sep 2012 - Saturday 6 Oct 2012
<AlanBell> BigRedS: I have not got the foggiest
<BigRedS> AlanBell: ah, haha. It's alright now, I've a not-all-that foggy idea :)
 * SuperEngineer has decided - I love my ol' Dell Dimension E520 - wish I knew "les femmes" that good ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...& performed as well on a desktop ;)
<ascenseur> good evening all!
<popey> hello
<ascenseur> long time no see! Ã§a va?
<mattt> bien
<ascenseur> bon :)
<popey> Oui, john.
<ascenseur> i can't believe it's been nearly two years since I last set foot in here, virtually of course
<AlanBell> o/ ascenseur
<ascenseur> AlanBell: \o/
<Seeker`> o/
<ascenseur> oh gosh sorry, only just getting used to no using irssi
<DJones> Evening, anybody here in Essex near St Osyth? From BBC Breaking news "Essex Police advise residents to stay indoors after reports of a lion being seen in a field in the St Osyth area"
<popey> blimey
<mattt> wow
<ascenseur> oh my
 * SuperEngineer roars - that'll frightrn it
<ascenseur> anyone currently drying bacon on their washing line is advised to leave it in situ
<AlanBell> hmm, I would not be very worried unless that came with a report of a lion being absent from somewhere that a lion should be.
<DJones> Probably turn out to be a very shaggy cat
<brobostigon> isnt st osyth, just down form clacton ?
<ascenseur> how's things been going for you all?
<brobostigon> from
<brobostigon> from*
<ascenseur> AlanBell: how's things? :)
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: the sea floor is just down from Clacton
<DJones> brobostigon: Looks like it
<bigcalm> Evening peeps :)
<AlanBell> ascenseur: where are you these days? want to come to an event or two we are working on?
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: :)
<brobostigon> DJones: i thought i recognised the name.
<DJones> Wasn't Clacton on Sea where Dad's Army was set?
<ascenseur> AlanBell: i am mighty fine, starting sixth form in about a week or so's time, and also managed to get myself a job at the local hospital :) (working with sharepoint, mind. not that great!)
<ascenseur> AlanBell: I would be absolutely delighted!
<ascenseur> AlanBell: I am also willing to lend any time or help I can give, as at the moment I am a little empty handed
<AlanBell> http://doodle.com/6vcb8a6rcgcewhf6 possible jam thing in Canonical's shiny new London office
<brobostigon> DJones: wasnt that. walmington on sea.
<DJones> brobostigon: That rings a bell
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1906/detail/ farnham happy hour \o/
<AlanBell> issyl0: ^^
 * popey flashes his joggler
<ascenseur> AlanBell: ooh! all exciting :)
<ascenseur> popey: dirty habit! put it away!
<ascenseur> :P
<AlanBell> and we are thinking interesting ideas around christmas already
<ascenseur> AlanBell: estimated times for the jam?
<AlanBell> dunno really, depends which day it ends up on, popey is the one to ask
<popey> yup
<popey> and the problem with security in the building on weekends is that we need a member of staff to stay with people in the office
<popey> _and_ a member of staff to let people in
<popey> which is tricky
<AlanBell> are the office and the door in dramatically different places?
<popey> 5 floors apart
<ascenseur> you need elastagirl!
<AlanBell> is there a pub over the road to meet in?
<popey> i was thinking similar
<popey> meet at a pre-defined time then all go in
<ascenseur> aha it's fine, no worries - it was just an enquiry as i'm going to be working until about 4 on the friday, and have the weekend booked out sadly :(
<AlanBell> because, even given two people, that sucks for one of them.
<popey> well no
<popey> only have to go down to let them in
<popey> and then come back
<ascenseur> ah okay
<AlanBell> yeah, still best to meet in a cafe or pub and pile in together
<Azelphur> Amazon got back to me and said they arn't going to refund my windows 7 license :/
<bigcalm> Return the laptop
<Azelphur> the whole thing?
<bigcalm> Your choice
<Azelphur> I don't really want to return the laptop, I'd just like to not have to buy windows with it
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/7ZP2kQ0N
<Azelphur> maybe I could raise it with the BBB since they arn't in line with sales of good?
<Azelphur> sales of goods*
<Azelphur> and derp, bbb is american only
<Azelphur> either that or start trying lenovo, frustrating
<Azelphur> Amazon asked me to write a review of their customer service, http://pastebin.com/ytdqQFY4 sound good?
<mattt> "abysmally slow and ultimately support."
<mattt> ?
<Azelphur> mattt: whoops, there was meant to be a "useless" in there :P
<mgdm> I'm just wondering if it's Amazon's fault that you've bought a laptop with Windows on
<Azelphur> mgdm: it's their fault for not providing me with an option to buy it without Windows on, and it's their fault for not following the law and allowing me to return a product which I can't use
<mgdm> I'd have said the latter was the manufacturer, and as for the former - well, you still bought it
 * SuperEngineer goes to zzz land... nightie night folks - have a good one
<mattt> i'm a bit with mgdm on this one
<mattt> it's like me buying a car with a spec i'm not happy with
<mattt> then blaming the dealership for not giving me the options i wanted :)
<Azelphur> mattt: no it's not, your car doesn't come with a restrictive EULA
<Azelphur> mgdm: I bought it because I wasn't presented with any other options, and the law states that they arn't allowed to do this :)
<Azelphur> It's against the law for a reason
<mattt> still doesn't make sense to buy it
<Azelphur> mattt: yes it does, it's the laptop I wanted and I'm allowed to return Windows 7 under EU law, and Amazon has refunded in previous cases
<Azelphur> this should be a straightforward matter, it's Amazon that is making it difficult
<czajkowski> Azelphur: actually in most cases it has never been straightforward
<czajkowski> many manufactures will still argue it
<czajkowski> so t's not so simple
<Azelphur> czajkowski: I know it's not simple, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be simple
<czajkowski> apples and oranges
<Azelphur> wat
<mattt> Azelphur: what is the value of windows 7?
<mattt> (out of curiousity)
<Azelphur> mattt: around Â£60
<Azelphur> but I imagine OEM's will pay less
<mgdm> Quite considerably less
<mgdm> I'd be surprised if you got 20 quid out of them (not that I'm saying you shouldn't try, of course)
<Azelphur> sounds about right
<Azelphur> I'm quite happy to keep bashing at them, it's wrong to not provide a simple refund mechanism for this, there's so many situations where Windows is not required with a machine
<popey> Azelphur, which specific law have they broken?
<Azelphur> popey: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/08/pressure-mounts-on-windows-tax/ look at the second quoted paragraph
<mgdm> I suspect that when I next buy a laptop I won't bother - the value of the refund is less than what I think my time's worth
<popey> you quoted "EU bundling laws "
<Azelphur> popey: that is the EU bundling law is it not?
<popey> you tell me, you're mailing them as if you're an expert in this
<Azelphur> haha, I'm no expert, I'm just following what the open sourcerer says, he's the expert on this
<popey> if you contact them waving laws then you need to be nice and specific
<popey> not give random names to stuff
<mattt> and preferably don't link to blogs
<mattt> :)
<AlanBell> next time I buy a laptop it will quite possibly be a dell ultrabook if they release them here
<AlanBell> and dont come up with the usual guff about the UK market being unsuitable for linux
<ascenseur> night peeps... catch up with you soon! :)
<mattt> ascenseur: ciao
<AlanBell> o/
<Azelphur> popey: again quoting what open sourcerer said to me before :)
<ascenseur> mattt: a bientÃ´t!
<popey> right, and that wont work
<Azelphur> I'm no lawyer, I'm mostly going on info I've found (I'm just a normal guy trying not to get sold something I don't want)
<popey> if i sold something to someone and they start quoting random blogs at me I'd likely tell them to GTFO
<AlanBell> you can return the whole thing, do that
<popey> whereas if they quote specific laws.. I might be more interested
<Azelphur> popey: even if the blog clearly showed that you'd given a refund in the past?
<AlanBell> that is what someone who got one with Linux on it by accident might do
<popey> its just a blog
<popey> anyone can write one
<Azelphur> AlanBell: maybe I will return it, I'll take their offer to call me tomorrow and if they won't give me my windows refund I'll return the whole thing
<Azelphur> and then get the slightly higher spec version Lenovo has on offer atm for the same price :)
<mgdm> and will Lenovo oblige?
<popey> I'd be inclined to complain and try to get a refund but speak to them in a more professional way
<Azelphur> mgdm: they've been bashed in court a couple of times over it, so hopefully yes, plus it's one central point to go at (everyone is confused as to retailer or manufacturer, this way there's no confusion)
<mattt> yeah, calling them utterly useless isn't going to get you anywhere
<mattt> at that rate, they're not going to take the entire thing back either :P
<Azelphur> popey: I tried my best and I've come in here for advice every step of the way
<Azelphur> not a whole lot more I could be doing
<mgdm> be persistent, but polite
<Azelphur> I have remained polite throughout the whole thing imo
<Azelphur> even when they missed all the "We'll contact you before X with an answer" deadlines, I was still polite
<popey> so, I'd research the laws they have broken
<popey> and quote them
 * Azelphur has a look
<mattt> yeah, for all you know, that blog could be wrong
<Azelphur> I doubt theopensourcerer is wrong he has quite a lot of experience on the windows tax thing
<mattt> i don't doubt him
<mattt> but find the actual information
<popey> he does?
<Azelphur> popey: yep
<popey> the blog looks like he has experience of getting a windows refund on exactly one device
<Azelphur> https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#hl=en&safe=off&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=theopensourcerer%20windows%20refund&oq=&gs_l=&pbx=1&fp=35cf4c1a6dae8606&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&biw=2844&bih=1477
<popey> right, post that url to amazon and good luck
<mattt> :P
<Azelphur> popey: I don't see why you've dropped to not being sensible, I merely corrected you
<popey> I gave you two pieces of advice which you don't seem interested in taking
<popey> you seem to think Alan has lots of experience when in fact he's mostly blogged about one incident as far as I can see
<Azelphur> popey: uhh, you said look up the law, I agreed and am reading the pdf right now?
<popey> and repeating issues from other users
<popey> good stuff
<popey> good luck
<Azelphur> I believe it falls under a faulty product since I can't use it unless I agree to the EULA
<Azelphur> and the faulty product part states that I can request a partial refund
<popey> I'd look up the definition of "faulty"
<popey> you're closer to "unwanted product" than "faulty product"
<Azelphur> Working badly or unreliably because of imperfections.
<Azelphur> it doesn't work unless I agree to the EULA
<mgdm> tenuous
<Seeker`> but it is exactly what you ordered, in the state you expected it to be when you ordered it
<Seeker`> that isn't faulty
<Azelphur> short of turning on and showing me the EULA, which isn't really useful (I guess that'd fall under working badly)
<Seeker`> thats getting what you asked for
<Azelphur> Seeker`: *shrug* good point
<popey> i wouldn't be making it up as I went along, as I said, see what law other people have used
<Azelphur> popey: the page I linked you to from theopensourcer states that that is the law that other people have used
<Seeker`> on a more serious note: Is there a problem drinking english breakfast tea at 11pm?
<mgdm> Seeker`: No, of course not
<bigcalm> mgdm: coming to Symfony Live?
<mgdm> bigcalm: No - I don't use it
<popey> \o/ joggler updated
<Seeker`> mgdm: good, my thoughts too :D
 * Seeker` has discovered loose leaf tea recently
<mgdm> nice
<popey> my mum always uses loose leaf tea
<bigcalm> mgdm: maybe you should ;)
<mgdm> popey: cool - what you using on it?
<popey> what do you brew in?
<mgdm> bigcalm: no immediate requirement
<bigcalm> popey: updated to use what?
<popey> mgdm, the updated openpeak firmware and some extras
<Azelphur> but yea, I think I've got a decent plan of approach really, let them call me on Monday and see if they'll refund it, if not I'll just let them take the whole thing back then get the free upgrade from Lenovo and that should hopefully give me a much easier line of attack for getting a refund
<Azelphur> so win win really
<popey> http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=664#p11705
<Seeker`> popey: http://www.adagio.uk.com/teaware/glass_mug_and_infuser.html?SID=a6a874e33193421bbf59e9a768bdc035
<popey> post 3 onward
<bigcalm> mgdm: convince me some more that I should attend PHPNW
<mgdm> popey: ah ha - I'll give that a look. I saw there was an Android Jelly Bean firmware the other day, I was tempted by it
<mgdm> bigcalm: doooo eeeeet
<bigcalm> Ha
<popey> i played with android a bit
<mgdm> bigcalm: you'll learn other useful things too!
<mgdm> bigcalm: like... ummm... the stuff on the schedule!
<popey> Azelphur, if you do decide to return it, its possible to get 20% discount direct from lenovo
<popey> which offsets the cost of windows
<Azelphur> popey: oh nice, hows that work?
<Azelphur> is the 20% discount just a 20% discount, or is that an actual I don't want windows thing
<popey> just 20% discount
<Azelphur> ah
<shauno> lenovo don't seem to have a good track record with the refunds.  the only ones I've seen have been dragged through court (and not always successfully)
<Azelphur> shauno: worst case scenario I loose and get a better laptop for less money
<Azelphur> the goal is to be one of the people who votes with his feet saying I don't want a machine with Windows
<Azelphur> I'm not gonna cry over the loss of Â£20
<popey> those dell ultrabooks do look nice
<Azelphur> (I don't think anyone here would)
<popey> not a thinkpad though
<Azelphur> popey: linky? :)
<popey> http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/b/techcenter/archive/2012/05/07/developer-laptop-launches-project-sputnik.aspx
<Azelphur> looks cool
<Azelphur> unfortunately too big, 11.6 or smaller is what I'm in the market for :(
<popey> thats quite small
<Azelphur> indeed
 * popey hugs his thinkpad
<Azelphur> hehe
<soreau> stinkpad :)
<Azelphur> mine is a thinkpad too, just a tiny one
<popey> finding it hard to justify anything other than thinkpad now I have one
<popey> \o/ two jogglers flashed
 * soreau wants a smaller (hand-held?) device that he can interface with his home automation system on the LAN
<Azelphur> soreau: nexus 7? :D
<soreau> Azelphur: not sure, I have to do research to see what would be most suitable for my purposes
<soreau> also, the home automation system doesn't exist yet, nor the house
<soreau> so there are some prerequisites ;)
<bigcalm> mgdm: I've mailed my boss, which is a step closer to me committing to attending. We shall see if he wants to throw any money at me ;)
<Azelphur> soreau: welcome to my world haha
<soreau> Azelphur: hi :)
<mgdm> bigcalm: \o/
<bigcalm> mgdm: though I doubt that I'll be there for the 200 quid tutoring day
<bigcalm> mgdm: will turn up for beers in the evening
<christel> mmmbeer.
<mgdm> that's my plan too
 * bigcalm tickles christel into action
<Seeker`> anyone here tried a line6 guitar?
<bigcalm> mgdm: I've been adding new starred tracks to my Spotify account, have a listen ;)
<mgdm> bigcalm: more Boney M? :D
<bigcalm> LOL
<bigcalm> NO!
 * bigcalm shakes his head
 * bigcalm wigs out to Barbra Streisand
<mgdm> D:
<bigcalm> She's the most wanted woman you know
<mgdm> I'll take your word for it
<christel> gosh, is she still alive?
 * mgdm sleeps
<mattt> bigcalm: spotify:track:4UHk2K8jvORnp6WGJMTriJ
<AlanBell> Full. Of. Win. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nefPAXvMSKk
<shauno> has that been stretched?  (still watching and quite interesting, just curious if his head's always that shape)
<penguin42> he doesn't normally look that shape
<bigcalm> shauno: this is how it was played to us on the day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J__Lmu4rnw4&feature=related
<shauno> he seems to mostly know what he's talking about though, which is a nice change
<penguin42> ooohk - who here is in Essex? and do you know what you did with your lion?
<penguin42> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-19388301
<popey> BED!
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-19
<balorth> hello
<dvrr> good morning
<dvrr> popey:Hiiiiiiiii
<shauno> dvrr: it's 6:30am here.  many people won't wake up no matter how enthusiastic you are.  you might want to try #ubuntu proper at this hour
 * jussi hugs dvrr
<dvrr> iam running apache, mysql, tomcat section replication in ubuntu 12.10  (16gb RAM 4 cpu)  but i hava problem cpu utilization 100 percent  (java sdk 200 persent usage) please help me
<dvrr> jussi
<jussi> dvrr: #ubuntu is your best bet, I have no idea (plus, Im working)
<dvrr> ok thank you
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<shauno> o/
<brobostigon> morning shauno
<AlanBell> morning
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS
<MartijnVdS> *yawn*
<neuro> Monday ... pfff
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mungbean> .win 9
<bigcalm> Fail alpha
<mungbean> woops
<mungbean> meant to say /win 9
<DJones> Grr, its time to get depressed, parents are looking at getting a new puppy, its not fair, I want another one
<mungbean> they will be sick of theirs in 2 weeks
<mungbean> when poo and wee and bitten stuff is everywhere
<DJones> Not a chance of that happening, 60+ years of having dogs, so they're used to it
<mungbean> what pup are they getting?
<mungbean> will not get another dog for the forseeable future after this one
<DJones> Either this one http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/images/classifieds/2013/06/14/332719/quality-tri-colour-puppies-51fbb34834810.JPG
<DJones> Or one of the shaded sables in the top pic's on this http://www.collienet.com/breeders/Ingledene%20puppies.htm
<mungbean> cute
<DJones> Very cute :)
<mungbean> why do all dog websites look the same? i.e. circa 1990
<mungbean> MS word backgrounds
<DJones> Heh, thats true
<AlanBell> because cats won the internet
<MartijnVdS> and cats are only 20 years behind humans?
<mungbean> mother in law helps this charity http://www.prodogsdirect.org.uk/
<DJones> I ended up redoing our website using wordpress planning on updating it regularly, but the updating doesn't happen
<DJones> heh, blank screen with flashlock
<DJones> flashblock
<mungbean> lolz
<mungbean> looks terrible on most browsers
<DJones> My parents run a northwest collie & sheltie rehoming help scheme
<DJones> Along with a monthly training class
<DJones> & dog shows
<DJones> They've always had between 2 and 4 dogs, is it any wonder I get on with dogs better than people
<popey> Morning all
<dvrr> Hiiiii
<dvrr> popey: good morning
<popey> hello
<dvrr> iam running apache, mysql, tomcat section replication in ubuntu 12.10  (16gb RAM & 4 cpu)  but i hava a problem cpu utilization 100 percent  usage (java sdk 200 persent usage) please help me
<mungbean> deja vu
<popey> yes, we discussed this last week didn't we?
<dvrr> yes friday-16-13  discussed but not fixed that problem
<mungbean> maybe there's a tomcat freenode channel
<mungbean> or java. it doesn't sound ubuntu specific
 * bigcalm drums his fingers waiting for the mailing list to update
<dvrr> java. does't  sound means  i couldn't understand
<popey> bigcalm: i got it
<bigcalm> popey: oh, good :)
<popey> well, i saw a mail from you on my phone anyway
<popey> so assume thats it
<bigcalm> I guess Thunderbird is having one of those days
<bigcalm> popey: indeed so
<bigcalm> Do emails from me get a special ring tone?
<popey> yay, back to 1080p screen
<popey> thats better
<mgdm> bigcalm: popey is probably considerably further up the mailing list than you are :P
<bigcalm> Why the heck as my comment appears out of order in this? http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/
<bigcalm> mgdm: A > I I guess
<bigcalm> s/as/does
<bigcalm> I fail at typing today
<mgdm> bigcalm: I'd bet they're not in alphabetical order, probably more like order of signup
<bigcalm> True
<popey> file a bug
<bigcalm> Is that how mailman works? Sending to individual subscribers rather than a BCC?
<popey> too late, already doing it
<popey> yes, indiviual mails
<bigcalm> popey: a bug in my typing this morning? :)
<mgdm> bigcalm: at the SMTP level there is no difference between the two
<mgdm> well, not a lot
<bigcalm> mgdm: fair enough
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-team-portal/+bug/1213858
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1213858 in LoCo Team Portal "Sort order for comments seems odd" [Undecided,New]
<popey> please to confirm
<bigcalm> Confirmed
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> popey: confirm what?
<bigcalm> bug 1213858
<lubotu3> bug 1213858 in LoCo Team Portal "Sort order for comments seems odd" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1213858
<popey> ta
<davmor2> popey: it seems to go well till bigcalm made a comment I blame bigcalm not the system ;D
<popey> yes, i agree
<bigcalm> :O
<Adriannom> is a maths/programming question too ot for here?
<mungbean> you can try :)
<Adriannom> how can i solve this? :) - http://pastebin.com/DrFq9kbT
<mgdm> divide each number by 1 and use that as the probability of it being generated?
<mgdm> sorry, 1 by that number
<mgdm> so most are 1/1 but purple is 1/2
<Adriannom> hm that seems like it would work
<Adriannom> mgdm, i'll give it a go, thanks :P
<dvrr> popey: how can i solve  cpu usage
<bigcalm> :(
<mgdm> dvrr: hire a Tomcat/Java consultant
 * hamitron waits for some sales pitch by mgdm 
<AlanBell> dvrr: what application are you running in tomcat?
<dvrr> liferay tomcat , apache, mod_jk, mysql ubuntu12.10 16gb
<mgdm> hamitron: Oh, all I know about tomcat is how to turn it off and on again (which I do moderately frequently)
<AlanBell> so, liferay then
<hamitron> :)
<dvrr> liferay tomcat is like tomcat7
<AlanBell> huh?
<popey> liferay comes bundled with its own tomcat
<mungbean> sounds like a question for liferay mailing list then :P
<popey> https://www.liferay.com/community/forums is probably the best place
<jpds> dvrr: Ubuntu 12.10 ?
<dvrr> yes bundled with tomcat
<popey> lol, search those forums for "cpu"
<dvrr> ubuntu 12.10 server
<popey> every single thread is about cpu usage
<popey> dvrr: ^^^
<mungbean> problem solved
<AlanBell> a problem delegated is a problem solved
<mungbean> Please join us at the Amazon Web Services Enterprise Summit 2013, taking place on 17 September in central London. Designed specifically for senior IT decision makers, the AWS Enterprise Summit will provide key insight on large-scale cloud solutions
<mungbean> This is an all day event with keynote speeches from Andy Jassy, Senior Vice President, Amazon Web Services and Amazon infrastructure, and Stephen E. Schmidt, Chief Information Security Officer, AWS.
<mungbean> sounds like coprorate garbage
<dvrr> not solved
<mungbean> i hate these events
<popey> dvrr: did you see what I posted?
<jpds> dvrr: https://www.liferay.com/de/community/forums/-/message_boards/search?_19_keywords=cpu
<mungbean> why do i keep finding packets of crisps and bottles of coke in the toilet cubicle. what sort of person eats crisps on the bog?
<shauno> someone with a terrifyingly fast metabolism
<SuperMatt> D:
<hamitron> mungbean, depends on the length of the stay?
<jpds> mungbean: Someone who can't be bothered to find a bin.
<jpds> dvrr: You really shouldn't be using 12.10 for something in production.
<mungbean> consuming food/drink in the bog is ewww
<SuperMatt> jpds: I do ;)
<mungbean> even chewing something consumed outside gives me the unpleasant feeling
<SuperMatt> and I'll probably upgrade my server to 13.10 when that's out (a few months after, probs)
<SuperMatt> because I want to get my hands on apache 2.4
<jpds> SuperMatt: Yes, and you have to keep upgrading, while meanwhile, 12.04 is fine until the next LTS.
<shauno> I still haven't upgraded from 10.04.  it ain't broke yet
<SuperMatt> jpds: depends what you use it for
<mungbean> i have a 10.04 server too
<shauno> (and yes, I'm lazy)
<mungbean> makes for a flippin fast desktop
<dwatkins> so does fluxbox
<hamitron> desktop on a server? :/
<mungbean> 10.04+gnome+docky
<mungbean> it used to be my desktop pc, then i moved office and kept it in there as a server
<dwatkins> my server provides me with a desktop via opennx
<dwatkins> I tend to just use it to run xmountains
<mungbean> running backups and pwncloud
<shauno> people get so funny about servers vs desktops, but the main difference between a server-class machine and a workstation-class machine is what shape the box is
<dwatkins> my server is actually a netbook - it has a built-in UPS, too.
<mungbean> 10.04 is supported for server only now
 * dwatkins - bucking trends in Linux since 1994
<dwatkins> like this http://i.imgur.com/5sGJpfu.jpg
<bigcalm> Still haven't got my own email. I guess there are a lot of subscribers
<dwatkins> Eventually, I'll get around to putting custom colours into that application.
<mgdm> that reminds me of my fluxbox desktop from 10 years ago
<dwatkins> mgdm: fluxbox is indeed what I'm running there
<mgdm> \o/
<mgdm> it's been a few years since I ran that :D
<mgdm> (on LFS, no less)
<popey> bigcalm: i replied to itr
<bigcalm> popey: yay. I can see that, but not my own post. Most strange
<popey> do you run your own mail server?
<bigcalm> Nope, it's gmail
<jpds> bigcalm: Gmail hides your own posts.
<jpds> bigcalm: You're not going to start emailing yourself, are you?
<bigcalm> jpds: imap to Thunderbird
<bigcalm> I've seen my own ml posts before now
<jpds> [Although: http://www.someecards.com/usercards/viewcard/MjAxMi04NmM1MmIwMjAyMDViOTg2 ]
<bigcalm> :)
<jpds> bigcalm: Well, it's long been known that Gmail hides people's own posts to lists.
<jpds> bigcalm: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2013-August/036787.html
<popey> indeed
<bigcalm> jpds: I guess that's the alternative route
<popey> you only see your own post once someone replies
<bigcalm> Almost caught up on 8 past eps of uupc
<bigcalm> Only 2 to go
<mungbean> tldr version?
<bigcalm> tldl
<mungbean> i accidentally stoped listeining last year
<bigcalm> Time to catch up!
<mungbean> can you summarise the whole year :P
<bigcalm> It's the year of the desktop
<davmor2> mungbean: it's 365.25 days
<mungbean> who presents it now? same ppl?#
<mungbean> i used to like it, not sure why i stopped
<bigcalm> It's the Tony & Laura show
<bigcalm> With sidekicks popey & Mark
<popey> we have started doing video too
<czajkowski> really should remove laura as a highlight
<czajkowski> I get very confused
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=233xnDn1SyA
<czajkowski> oh nice
<davmor2> czajkowski: that's not hard :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: you have no idea :)
<popey> our first go, it's tricky to do given we're using technology designed for remote participation, but we're in the same room
<davmor2> czajkowski: Oh yes I do :)
<czajkowski> popey: this going to be the new format?
<mungbean> i also stopped listening to LAS but for different reasons...
<popey> well, it's in addition to audio
<czajkowski> popey: nice idea
<czajkowski> mungbean: what is LAS
<popey> we're not changing what we already have, but some people like to watch, so we thought we'd try it
<mungbean> linux action show
<czajkowski> nods why not
<czajkowski> bit of fun
<popey> its hard work
<popey> the problem is we have to mute all our microphones, otherwise they all pick eachother up
<popey> which breaks the hangout auto-switching focus of webcam
<popey> so i had to manually switch person
<czajkowski> ahh
<czajkowski> bit more work involved then
<bigcalm> Alternative is to have 1 camera in the middle on a turntable
<popey> who turns it?
<bigcalm> The podcats
<popey> hah
<mungbean> popey has a neckbeard from this angle
<popey> yeah
<popey> not any more
<popey> â»
<mungbean> i have 1week growth or so. literally have not had time at home. might bring shaver to wor
<mungbean> k
<shauno> if you find a button labelled "Database Error - InitDB line 14" .. do you press it ?
<mungbean> shauno: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html
<neuro> "GitHub (Not Responding)"
<neuro> flargen blarg
<Monotoko> anyone here any good with SQL?
<mungbean> i just wrote plateaued and wondered if it was real. apparently it is
<dwatkins> plateau is a funny word, I assume it's from French.
<shauno> safe guess, it looks gateaux :)
<mungbean> om nom
<dwatkins> Can you refer to something as being gateaued on a surface?
<mungbean> gateauxed?
<mungbean> you rarely see X's in countdown
<shauno> you could do, ala pie on the face?  but it's bad form to use big words where diminutive ones will suffice
<mungbean> eating gateaux on a plateau near a chateau?
<shauno> (not claiming this is a real word, merely that it must be possible to gateaux a surface, clowns' employment depends on it)
<mungbean> can you deselect a news source from google news?
<mungbean> ah, need to sign in first
<davmor2> mungbean: unless you are Stephen Fry then you see X, IX, VIII...........
<mungbean> countdown tv programme..
<mungbean> Singapore is Asia's largest backer at time of writing, with 200 Edges ordered, followed closely by Japan (198) and Hong Kong (157).
<mungbean> wifey sent me to work with a stash of ginger flapjacks
<mungbean> nobody to give them to :S
<AlanBell> there haven't been new annoucements around the edge have there?
<shauno> all I've seen since it broke the record, has been a sympathetic tweet from mr. Fry
<mungbean> why did i just look at fry's tweet line
<mungbean> arrghgh
<diddledan> morning
<mungbean> afternoon
<diddledan> sshh, if I say "morning" enough I might believe I didn't oversleep :-p
<jussi> morning diddledan
<jussi> :P
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> morning, jussi
<mungbean> server room air temp hit 40 degrees yesterday...and the server shutdown at 50 degrees
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> no air con?
<mungbean> one unit failed. rather poor layout of units means little overlap
<diddledan> ah
<diddledan> sucky
<mungbean> yeah, 250 nodes turned off
<jussi> we had multiple power failures here, it sucked
<mungbean> where?
<mungbean> was a brownout here that caused the prob
<bigcalm> I can see my reply to your reply, popey. Mailman is weird
<popey> It's not mailman
<popey> IMO
<bigcalm> I have no idea where my original post is though
<popey> spam folder?
<bigcalm> No :S
 * bigcalm heads to gmail.com
<bigcalm> Right
<bigcalm> I can see it on gmail.com
 * bigcalm grrs at Thunderbird
<popey> bigcalm: its not thunderbird, it's google
<popey> your thunderbird is looking at "inbox", not "all mail" I suspect
<bigcalm> Newp, it's a folder/label
<popey> same thing
<popey> look in "All mail" and you'll see it
<shauno> it's just the same as when you have a 1-on-1 convo with someone.  their replies are in the inbox, your replies are in the sent box, and google munges them both into a 'conversation' view
<bigcalm> Oh, there it is :(
<shauno> it's just the same with lists.  your reply isn't actually in that mailbox/folder/label/etc, but google can find it and peice it into the 'conversation'
<bigcalm> popey: little bit of podcast feedback - I tried to watch the youtube video but found it to be distracting. Also the audio quality is a lot lower than the MP3. Good to see different things being tried, just didn't work for me
<popey> yeah, the audio needs work
<popey> it was cobbled together
<popey> what was distracting?
<bigcalm> The video. I find I can do other things while listening to some pod casts
<bigcalm> Tony's video was a lot lower res than the others, couldn't read his name
<popey> yeah, dunno why that was
<popey> crappy camera or driver, dunno
<bigcalm> Wah. My podcast directory is empty. All I have left to listen to are 38 eps of Richard Herring's Me1 vs Me2 snooker
<MartijnVdS> Ooh, and that's a bad miss
<popey> â»
<shauno> MartijnVdS: you're frequently more british than I am.  which of us should be worried?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I don't know.
<bigcalm> Can anybody replicate this on 13.04? https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/369451966688014336
<bigcalm> I'm trying to find an open bug before reporting it
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: trying, how did you get it like that?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I ran Software Updater from the dash
<MartijnVdS> mine lists Chrome atm
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: that's what I was greeted with
<bigcalm> What's the gui's command? I'll try running it in a terminal in case there are errors
<MartijnVdS> update-manager, I think
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> No errors in the terminal
<diddledan> I keep getting the update manager icon appear in the dock telling me there's updates but clicking the icon won't open the window
<bigcalm> diddledan: bug 420625
<lubotu3> bug 420625 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager is hard to find when it autoappears" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420625
<diddledan> nope, not that
<diddledan> it really isn't visible at all
<bigcalm> Ah, yes, I get that occasionally
<bigcalm> I tend to kill the app and launch it myself
<diddledan> ditto
<bigcalm> I've been putting it down to my 3 monitor set-up
<popey> interesting
<popey> not seen that
<popey> does it end up off screen or something perhaps?
<bigcalm> Doesn't show up in the workspace switcher
<popey> bring it to the front next time, then alt+space, m, to "move" the window
<diddledan> popey, it won't focus
<popey> no, off screen
<mungbean> i hate update manager so much after they change the bahviour a couple of years ago
<popey> not on another workspace, but completely off screen
<bigcalm> I'll let you know if it happens again
<diddledan> popey, clicking the update manager icon won't make the arrow appear on the right to indicate it has focus and the previous app still accepts input as though I've not focussed anything else
<bigcalm> Back to my issue of update-manager not showing a list of packages but have the option to install. There are updates available via the CLI: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6002932/
<bigcalm> Aha, found an open bug http://paste.ubuntu.com/6002932/
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> bug 1072136
<lubotu3> bug 1072136 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "After doing updates, update manager propose to install an empty list of updates" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1072136
<bigcalm> diddledan: bug 989588
<lubotu3> bug 989588 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "update-manager popup is shown on launcher and alt-tab list but window doesn't show up" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989588
<davmor2> So fatboy slim is dune fan,  weapon of choice contains the line "walk without rhythm, and it won't attract a worm"
<mungbean> watched that again recently
<directhex> lots of music people are huge nerds
<mungbean> noiiiideeeeep
<mgdm> Dune, or Weapon of Choice? :)
<directhex> e.g. deadmau5 used to run a minecraft server
<mgdm> I saw the WoC video quite a few times in the pub before i ever heard the song
<directhex> the biggest nerd (physically) is still vin diesel though
<mgdm> The drummer from Blur once committed code to the Linux kernel
<diddledan> I like that will.i.am is advocating better education of nerdish subjects
<mungbean> dave rowntree?
<mgdm> mungbean: aye
<mgdm> directhex: what's Vin's claim to nerd fame?
<mungbean> mgdm: is the blur story true? source?
<directhex> mgdm, big on D&D. *big* on d&d. wrote the foreword to '30 Years of Adventure: A "Celebration" of Dungeons & Dragons'. one of his tattoos in the movie xXx was the name of his D&D character of many years
<mgdm> mungbean: it is true, haven't got time right now to find the source (as it were)
<mgdm> directhex: heh, nice
<mgdm> mungbean: remind me later if you remain unconvinced :)
<directhex> e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36_-DauQi0s
<mungbean> are "direct messages" on twitter relviatevly private?
<mungbean> they don't appear on your feed anywhere do they
<directhex> mungbean, as long as you don't mess up & make them public by accident :D
<mungbean> (doesn't use twitter much)
<SuperMatt> mungbean: they are indeed private
<SuperMatt> but
<SuperMatt> @ messages are public
<SuperMatt> so make sure you do a direct message
<mungbean> i have a friend who doesn't do email or fb but DMs me on twitter instead
<MartijnVdS> @SuperMatt haha mungbean doesn't know how to send DMs :P
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<mungbean> lol
<SuperMatt> mungbean: that's... weird
<mungbean> he sys he gets addicted to stuff easy
<mungbean> and has made a pact with his missis
<MartijnVdS> Can't you just call him instead? :)
<mungbean> btu he's being legalistic as he uses twitter as if its email
<mungbean> no, its just banter
<mungbean> every couple of months we remininisce about uni
<mungbean> i think they have a shared email inbod
<mungbean> inbox
<mungbean> you can tell people in the 35-44 age range as they got shared email accounts back in the day
<mungbean> mainly barry-and-june@freeserve.ent
<daftykins> XD
<mgdm> heh, I remember those
<MartijnVdS> I even know people with shared fb accounts
<daftykins> my main client used to have a freeserve business email address
<daftykins> it was ridiculous as it had several portions as the hostname, like @freeserve.fsbusiness.net or something
<mgdm> it was anyoldnonsenseyouliked@username.fsbusiness.net
<mgdm> various ISPs used to do the same, but they all went into the same POP3 mailbox
<mgdm> ahh.. POP3, there's something I've not used in about 10 years
<popey> i used to have fat.bloke@england.com
<popey> I miss that one
<MartijnVdS> hahaha :)
<daftykins> i do not miss POP3
<MartijnVdS> popey: Story War will be shipping this week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZx0sjIao9M
<MartijnVdS> popey: (you kickstartered that as well, right?)
<daftykins> thankfully i've got most i can moved onto google apps so i don't have to even backup email clients anymore \o/
<mgdm> outsourcing your email is not a reason not to back it up :)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: what if I outsource that as well
<daftykins> mgdm: in this case i mean when, say, reinstalling an OS. i won't arse about to backup the client beforehand
<daftykins> whenever you get those jobs where someone uses a desktop client like Windows Mail / Outlook Express / Thunderbird - ugh
<diddledan> my gmail inbox is over 3GigaNuts now
<mgdm> daftykins: aaah, yes
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: .pst file corruption!
<diddledan> MartijnVdS, don't you dare!
<popey> MartijnVdS: ya
<daftykins> mgdm: although yeah, i guess i'm putting a lot of faith in them :>
<directhex> what the hell is a .pst file?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: it's what MS Outlook uses to store its profiles (including emails, etc.)
<daftykins> i think he knows but is being facetious again :(
<MartijnVdS> :(
<daftykins> i've had to learn many of Outlook's little quirks over the years
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: did you get hazard pay?
<daftykins> clients tend to be unwilling to get along with just a web interface of google apps and want Outlook back
<daftykins> haha if only
<daftykins> the classic is when a clean install doesn't keep the list of emails that it'll guess when you start typign into the 'To' field
<daftykins> which is naturally stored in a .NK2 file hidden within Application Data back in 2007 and before
<daftykins> yet has been removed in more recent editions
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: just sign them up for the new on-line office stuff
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: if they REALLY want to keep MS stuff
<daftykins> nah they get the Google Apps Sync for Outlook in with Google Apps
<daftykins> so it's all good
<diddledan> wow, sky recon they're gonna answer my call in "under 7 minutes"
<zleap> i take it that is good
<diddledan> it surprised me on two fronts, first they gave me theindication, and second it does seem rather quick
<diddledan> and third they answered way before the 7 minute mark
<daftykins> it's a real shame that ol' remote support program (VNC wrapper) 'gitso' hasn't been updated in forever
<daftykins> actually there's a september 2012 deb, but not for the other OSs
<directhex> okay then
<directhex> TCO calculated, badgers tickled, spreadsheets spread... it's phone upgrade time for the wife, and i've worked out her optimal purchase choices
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu Edge?
<daftykins> Nokia Â£20 dumbphone it is!
<MartijnVdS> $60 firefox phone?
<MartijnVdS> Tonight: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0391z20
<daftykins> oh dear
<daftykins> Horizon stuff is usually interesting but i suspect there shall be some pain in that one
<mungbean> i'm getting flashbacks to when i supported end users
<mungbean> woops hadnt scrolled down from 17:00
<mungbean> daftykins: are you watching horizon? is it rubbish?
<mungbean> want to know whether to save myself the hour
<daftykins> i don't have live TV sir
<mungbean> in watching flags of our fathers atm
<daftykins> i think i discovered why a laptop doesn't charge
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zfjep8kwwyonkmb/IMG-20130819-WA0003.jpg
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> (that's a DC jack)
<hamitron> I wanna know how someone manages to do that
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> me also
<daftykins> especially in a sealed unit
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-20
<DJones> I wonder which retailer will have Nexus 7-2's availble in their stores on release day
<MartijnVdS> Google's own play store?
<DJones> I'm hoping to pick one up in a store rather than via mail order
 * mungbean checking in
 * TheOpenSourcerer wishes he could check out.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Customer's data (~.5million rows) of a flat file spreadsheet. Spent the last 4 days trying to devise interesting methods to break it into related entities to import into a proper CRM. Thank god for Talend, but it's still a right PITA.
<MartijnVdS> pivot table magic :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> nope - the data isn't clean enough.
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<TheOpenSourcerer> all free text - no consistency
<MartijnVdS> that's.. horrible
<TheOpenSourcerer> yep.
<bigcalm> Outsource to children
<dwatkins> dirty data is the bane of my life
<TheOpenSourcerer> hmmm.
<mungbean> dave cameron wants to fix that
<dwatkins> What's even worse is that the CRM I use capitalises half the fields, including e-mail.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Talend is really rather cool, but it can;t magically clean stuff.
<dwatkins> the place I used to work at had a fairly clean database already, but we (as support engineers) were asked to flag any duplicate entries and correct minor errors in a customer's information. It was probably easier than someone going through all the records, since many of them were correct.
<dwatkins> You can easily write (in fact download) a bit of JavaScript to validate a telephone number, yet many databases still fail at storing them in anything like a useable format.
<mungbean> what happens if unstamped mail is sent to a PO box?
<DJones> They probably delivery with a note attached asking the recipient to go into a post office to pay the postage
<mungbean> virgin media are the scum
<MartijnVdS> virgin media send unstamped mail?
<mungbean> so after getting junk mail every week
<mungbean> if i return their post selltaped to a brick
<mungbean> they probably won't have to pay and they can choose to refuse it
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: '''write on the front of the envelope: "NOT KNOWN AT THIS ADDRESS, RETURN TO SENDER"'''
<mungbean> its the mystery of the internet age. how to get removed from their lists
<MartijnVdS> '''score through the address with a pen'''
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: they send to the address, not named person
<mungbean> its is literally impossible to get removed from the list
<mungbean> there is a loophole
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_w/consumer_post_e/consumer_problems_with_post_e/consumer_problems_with_unwanted_or_junk_mail_e/how_can_you_stop_un-addressed_junk_mail.htm ?
<mungbean> and it fills me with rage
<DJones> Might not even be 'posted mail' could just be the junk mail the post office gets mass batches of just to put through every door addressed to the occupier
<mungbean> its none of those
<mungbean> i opted out of door to door
<mungbean> they do that too though
<mungbean> they have a fake stamp called "delivered by royal mail"
<MartijnVdS> it's just "To whomever -- your address -- your town" ?
<mungbean> the occupier
<MartijnVdS> you should be able to opt-out of that
<mungbean> legally you cannot force them and they know it
<mungbean> once you opt out of their name+address junk mail
<mungbean> they send you "the householder"
<MartijnVdS> Oh, .nl anti-spam laws work for email AND real mail
<MartijnVdS> and phone as well
<Myrtti> hello sweetiepies
<Myrtti> how is world today for you â¥
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: a second company asked my to come talk to them :)
<Myrtti> nice, what about? you're in the market for a new job?
<mungbean> according to the evening standard it helps to go gay if you are loking for work in london
<popey> "go gay"
<Myrtti> "plim! you're now gay"
<Myrtti> derp
<Myrtti> evening standard, eh
<jpds> http://is.gd/ChFN1Z
<bigcalm> I'm happy
<popey> http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/why-the-gay-geek-is-the-most-soughtafter-worker-in-london-8773838.html
<popey> I don't think the article says "go gay" anywhere in it.
<mungbean> well i'm not gay, but the message is that joining the gay club would help
<mungbean> OTOH i never divulge any details to employers that they don't need to know
<popey> careful mungbean, your prejudice is showing
<mungbean> since they love to say "hey we have a lot of gingers!"
<Myrtti> mungbean: I don't read it that way tbh
<bigcalm> I keep thinking that it is Monday. This isn't a good start to a Tuesday
<Myrtti> it quotes a study from US that says that LGBT people are usually well trained
<mungbean> "It is a clichÃ© but the average professional gay person tends to be clever, "
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: yeah, current company wants to dispose of the software devs, so I'm looking around a bit
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Got several offers out of the blue :)
<Myrtti> then that the average gay people can dedicate more time to the job rather than their other engagements like family life.
<mungbean> my employer doesn't need to know if i have a family
<bigcalm> :
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: .. until you're self-employed
<dwatkins> Gay people don't have families? That's news to me, all my gay colleagues do.
<Myrtti> dwatkins: yeah, beats me where they got that idea
<popey> dwatkins: offspring
<mungbean> any of this imnformation can prejudice an employer either way
<dwatkins> popey: nope, still incorrect ;) I know at least two women with kids who happen to be gay.
<popey> i didnt say they didnt have them
<popey> i was clarifying what "family" meant
<dwatkins> fair enough
<popey> most of the gay people I know have dogs
<dwatkins> I just think any discrimination like this is at best silly, and verging on positively dangerous.
<mungbean> my point is that bringing personal stuff into the interview room isn't good. you are being hired for the 9-5
<MartijnVdS> popey: lots of straight people I know have dogs too
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: if you're interested in traveling the world in search of a new job... ;-)
<dwatkins> I have a pet rat, should that affect my employability?
<directhex> yes.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Depends, is it Pinky or The Brain?
<directhex> you might have hantavirus
<dwatkins> haha
<Myrtti> dwatkins: is it Peter Pettigrew?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, those are mice
<Myrtti> have you checked?
<mungbean> i went onto the HR system and they ask for your ethnicity, sexual preferences, religion etc
<MartijnVdS> directhex: not lab rats?
<dwatkins> Myrtti: she's quite smart
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: that's not allowed, is it?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, lab mice
<mungbean> they don't demand it, but strongly urge it
<MartijnVdS> directhex: oh, ok.
<mungbean> just so they can say they are ginger-friendly etc
<mungbean> despite seeing massive sexism where i work.
<mungbean> ticking boxes does not change the culture
<Myrtti> in my recruitment processes that information has always been given to the recruitment process in a separate form without names
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: "We're not a soul-crushing place to work! We have gingers working for us, they don't even HAVE souls to crush!"
<mungbean> there is a tendency for some people to incorrectly think that somebody caleld abdul al-shaqa can't speak good english
<dwatkins> I can't stand to work with people with green eyes.... (only kidding, I'm referring to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeK759FF84s )
 * popey covers his eyes
<dwatkins> popey: I have green eyes ;)
<mungbean> what do you say if an interviewer asks you what you do on a saturday night?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmyq9tIiu8g
<popey> depends mungbean if you're a normal person or if you're you
<mungbean> try normal person
 * dwatkins pauses Psy Chill DI radio
<popey> might mention that my daughter is in a ballet competition
<popey> you have a very unusual barrier between your personal life and your work life
<popey> I've known a few people like that at work
<dwatkins> mungbean: I used to work with a sales guy whose interview process included taking the victim out on a Friday night and getting them drunk, to see how they handled it
<bigcalm> I need some tunes to drown out the wailing child next door. Any suggestions? (need to be coding friendly)
<mungbean> i think maybe i've been hurt by public sector. private sector i never had an issue. public has the worst examples of everything (sexism, bullying, violent behaviour, etc)
<mungbean> bigcalm: lullaby by mozart
<bigcalm> mungbean: it's music for me, not her
<dwatkins> My boss usually knows what I'm doing on a Friday night, as we often go to the pub as a team.
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: A Long Way to Fall by Ulrich Schnauss
<popey> bigcalm: http://open.spotify.com/album/1T6VXkSGLyGwJ1l0555IBb
<popey> :D
<bigcalm> Gah
<bigcalm> I stopped Orbital for that playlist
 * bigcalm kippers popey
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://open.spotify.com/user/martijnvds/playlist/1g55QqilucQ0qr1x4Sv5fw  ?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNSsdVUK4HI
<mungbean> i am reminded of when i joined a bank in november 1999 and i asked if they'd done their y2k work? of course. then when i joined it turned out they'd done the paperwork and i had to upgrade 100 servers.
<mungbean> companies that pride themselves on investors in people should deal with bad bullying and sexism etc
<dwatkins> I suspect if anyone did anything like that here, people would just stare at them in disbelief uyntil they left out of shame
<mungbean> hehe
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: Listening to A Long Way to Fall, it's good :)
<Myrtti> oh man
<Myrtti> Finnish newspaper has gone full retard
<Myrtti> "The university has published the list of the new name days"
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<Myrtti> "You can check your own given names from for example your driving license"
<Myrtti> (caption under a picture of a driving license)
<Myrtti> whut
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: maybe average intelligence dropped?
<mungbean> summer staff?
<MartijnVdS> Cucumber time! (as we call it in Dutch)
<Myrtti> mungbean: Finnish summer ended last week, as schools started
<mungbean> holiday hangover?
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: New hires then?
<Myrtti> maybe
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_day doesn't even list the UK
<MartijnVdS> Just-out-of-school journos
<mungbean> is there a Myrtti day?
<Myrtti> mungbean: 30th of April
<MartijnVdS> The birthday of our king's grandmother
<Myrtti> well, for my given name, not my nick
<mungbean> exact match?
<mungbean> or you have to choose one if yours isn't listed?
<mungbean> ah, mine is listed
<mungbean> 19 october is cool. Viking
<Myrtti> mungbean: it's even the first one on the list as it's alphabetically first
<dvee> good morning  all
<popey> Hello dvee
<dvee> Hiiii
 * neuro yawns profusely
<neuro> 'ning all
<bigcalm> Morning
<neuro> troubleshooting mysql on *windows* is not my idea of fun, but that's what i spent last night doing
<neuro> i feel dirty
<bigcalm> neuro: sqlyog :)
<neuro> nah
<bigcalm> It's one of the very few windows applications that I still use in Linux
<neuro> mysql workbench + sequel pro + cygwin openssh
<neuro> i had to install some software last night to give windows server 2008 the capability to make a ramdisk
<neuro> windows server 2008!
<neuro> i bet 2012 doesn't do it natively either
<popey> gosh, 10:30 and no brekkie yet
<popey> Wizard needs food, badly.
 * neuro has two rolls and sausage sitting beside him
<neuro> can't face eating them yet
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mMJio2MO6w
<neuro> cuppa getting colder by the second
<popey> used to love that game
<neuro> fag hanging out of mouth
<neuro> i'm so screwed up this morning
<hamitron> aww guys, I'm cutting down and this chat isn't helping :/
<Laney> gauntlet?
<Laney> I had Gauntlet II on the NES
<Laney> so good
<neuro> hamitron: sorry! keep it up!
<neuro> the NES?
<neuro> pffff
<mungbean> i had the acorn version called dunjunz
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I didn't mean to turn it into a "who has the oldest computer" war
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ATARI-GAUNTLET-NON-JAMMA-VIDEO-GAME-BOARD-/281142020219?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41755ec87b
<Laney> So Internet
<popey> buy the original arcade board â»
<neuro> virtually no 8-bit systems could do decent coin-op conversions
<neuro> 'cept the PC Engine
<mungbean> completed it with my mates, i was the only one left, felt like a hero
<neuro> popey: niiiiice
<popey> might dig out my arcade boards sometime
<popey> now I have a supergun
<neuro> o rly
<mungbean> lots of chips there
<popey> yeah, bunch of boards in the loft
<neuro> somebody somewhere should make a supergun 2 with hdmi and all the trimmings
<mungbean> from before you were married or after?
<neuro> lol
<neuro> ziiiiing
<popey> Scramble, Side Arms, R-Type, R-Type II, R-Type Leo, Ghosts & Goblins, Bomb Jack, Nemesis..
<neuro> oh man
<popey> apres kids
<mungbean> but you lost your man cave :(
<neuro> sir, your taste in games is top class
<popey> haha
<popey> I gave my upright cabinet to london hackspace
<popey> along with a Neo Geo 6-slot and a bunch of games
<neuro> popey: i had no idea you were such a games geek
<popey> but yes, a supergun + hdmi would be awesome
<popey> displayport might be easier
<neuro> ooh yeah
<popey> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINI-SUPERGUN-CONSOLIZED-PRO-HDMI-VGA-HDTV-ATOMISWAVE-ARCADE-JAMMA-NEO-GEO-CPS2-/160996335778?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item257c2120a2&nma=true&si=PXqG2b%252BA5OESnhoSGJzP2L5lMfU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
<popey> whaaaaat
<neuro> if you could find a nice big 4:3 display that would be awesome
<neuro> wtf
<neuro> omgomg
<mungbean> http://www.stylist.co.uk/books/every-doctor-who-annual
<popey> heh, just found a photo of me online at a games meetup
<popey> http://www.stickycarpet.com/malc/gameon.html
<mungbean> got some of these oldies in the loft alongside the beano
<neuro> good domain name
<popey> yeah
<mungbean> sticky anything just reminds me of teenage boys :S
<popey> gameboy r-type was pretty good
<neuro> yeah, it wasn't bad
<neuro> used the greyscale quite effectively iirc
<mungbean> did you ever use your yubikey popey ?
<popey> yes
<mungbean> what's a typical use case?
<popey> gmail, lastpass, launchpad
<popey> Good morning TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> yo? Sup?
<popey> s'cool, 'scool
<popey> anyone got 20M USD they don't need?
 * shauno checks the back of the couch
<MartijnVdS> shauno: your hide-from-Daleks-spot? ;)
<dwatkins> Can't My Shuttleworth put up the remaining cash?
<dwatkins> *Mr
<mungbean> money down the drain
<directhex> related note: i'm waiting for mr. post office man to deliver my firefox os phone
<TheOpenSourcerer> correction $20,266,500
<directhex> huh, i've got my ÂµSD and ÂµSIM adapter, but no phone
<davmor2> Morning all
<DJones> Hopefully peoples jobs with Canonical aren't at risk if the project doesn't go ahead
<Myrtti> I doubt they've manufactured the devices beforehand :-P
<directhex> DJones, eventually canonical needs a money spinner of some kind
<directhex> DJones, lots of their projects have been a bust - e.g. ubuntu tv
<mungbean> people's jobs at canonical are always at a risk while sabdfl bankrolls the company. although i assume they are break even atm?
<DJones> directhex: Was reading this last night http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/08/why-ubuntus-creator-still-invests-his-fortune-in-an-unprofitable-company/ which was quite interesting
 * AlanBell suspects Canonical have a plan
<mungbean> if you're a gazillionaire you want to make a difference, a big splash, rather than a humdrum company
<jpds> AlanBell: A what-now?
<mungbean> the phones were a toe in water
<directhex> a single platform that spans everything from phones and tablets to PCs, servers, and my butt.
<directhex> cloud-to-butt <3
<xnox> mungbean: in the rankings sabdfl's net-worth is still 500M+ (as off 2012), considering canonical is quoted to be ~30M per year operation and has been going for 10 years now, this leads to assume that canonical is actually making profit.
<mungbean> he made other money too
<mungbean> $100m from some other spin off
<mungbean> you need a toy project to invest 10-20% of your portfolio that could change the world ;)
<mungbean> except bill gates waited until he retired and is now giving money away for good causes. good guy bill
<mungbean> was an utter jerk at MS
<mungbean>  man tw_cli
<mungbean> No manual entry for tw_cli
<mungbean>  tw_cli --help
<mungbean> Error: (CLI:041) Invalid shell command.
<mungbean> thanks 3ware for your wonderful software
<directhex> mungbean, `tw_cli ?`
<mungbean> 3ware raid controller query tool
<mungbean> tw_cli help did something
<mungbean> lame tool thoug
<DJones> mungbean: Must admit, I though Bill had passed away & that was why the charitable foundation was doing things
<mungbean> :-|
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_M_eO3okzU novel, never seen a tablet with a swappable battery before
<mungbean> i only know of 2 melindas
<directhex> mungbean, note the backticks.
<mungbean> ah :P
<directhex> root@tava:~# /root/ilmdaiwtki/bin/tw_cli ?
<directhex> Copyright(c) 2004-2006 Applied Micro Circuits Corporation(AMCC). All rights reserved.
<directhex> AMCC/3ware CLI (version 2.00.06.007)
<mungbean> ah yeah, does the same as help
<mungbean> tw_cli /c0 show is pretty sparse on detail
<directhex> mungbean, /c0 show all
<mungbean> still doesn't tell me which disks are in the raid5
<daftykins> excellent, i received the new DC jack for that laptop today - all working now :D
<mungbean> p15   DEVICE-ERROR   u?   931.51 GB SATA  15  -            ST31000528AS
<daftykins> took apart the second one and it's confirmed as the exact same fault \o/
<daftykins> so back to ebay i went for a Â£3.45 DC jack ;)
<directhex> mungbean, the raid array is a unit, e.g. "u0    RAID-10   OK             -       -       64K     4190.92   ON     ON     "
<daftykins> Â£6.90 to fix two laptops - can't be bad \o/
<directhex> mungbean, so look for disks with matching unit number
<mungbean> p15 shows u?
<mungbean> doing the maths, i think its u1
<directhex> mungbean, implies it's not part of the array. hotspare?
<daftykins> sounds like someone would appreciate the 3DM2 web interface being installed, mungbean \o/
<directhex> mungbean, there's also /c0/p15 show all
<mungbean> http://pastebin.com/ZUY6Ccea
<mungbean> unclear whether it is a HS or not
<directhex> mungbean, /c0/u1 show all
<mungbean> /c0/u1 status = OK
<mungbean> hence not degraded. phew
<directhex> none are degraded
<mungbean> ah this is what i was after, thanks
<directhex> i.e. no degraded arrays
<daftykins> looks like a nice system :)
<mungbean> the size was misreported
<directhex> /c0 Total Optimal Units = 2
<directhex> /c0 Not Optimal Units = 0
<Monotoko> I hate insurance companies :(
<daftykins> evil aren't they?
<mungbean> cheers directhex i can wait till person returns from holiday if the array is OK
<mungbean> i don't know where/if there are replacement drives you see
<Monotoko> daftykins: horrible - they won't replace my lost phone because it didn't have a SIM
<daftykins> what O_O
<Monotoko> exactly
<daftykins> so an insurance contract allegedly requires a SIM be in a phone now? D:
<mungbean> is that specified in small print?
<Monotoko> mungbean: sadly yes
<mungbean> insurance sucks
<Monotoko> in the massive list of "exclusions"
<daftykins> that's like saying the car insurance is only valid if the spare tire is present in the boot
<mungbean> i had MRI and i got made rednudant, but got no payments on the mortgage
<Monotoko> I'm kicking up a stink and complaining like hell, but I don't know if I will get anywhere
<daftykins> needless to say i've not ever bought car insurance, so... :D
<Monotoko> 15 months left on the contract :(
<mungbean> have a weird XFS issue
<mungbean> occasionally the filesystem enters a situation where io utilation goes to 100% and doesn't recover
<mungbean> eventually you have to reboot the storage server
<daftykins> erk
<mungbean> experienced it on more than 1 server
<daftykins> what kind of data is on that volume? lots of small files?
<mungbean> its a cluster, so probably all sorts of stuff, but yes
<mungbean>  is an xfs filesystem on an LVM lv on a RAID5 volume on the 3Ware controller. Under "certain circumstances" IO becomes very slow, affecting jobs running on the cluster as well as interactive performance on the headnode. I believe this is caused by large numbers of small writes which are less than the RAID stripe width but could do with doing more investigation to establish this.
<mungbean> ^^ comment on the wiki page
<mungbean> iowait goes to 60% and util is 100%
<daftykins> the 12TB RAID6 i run on a 3ware runs with XFS
<daftykins> mostly media, a guy's DVD collection imaged 1:1 in ISOs
<daftykins> when i created the XFS volume it had an almost stripe size variable to it itself i think
<daftykins> perhaps a mismatch between that and the RAID stripe can make things go wobbly 0o
<mungbean> may not be 3ware related, i need to check the other server
<directhex> contact SGI support!
<directhex> you have an Enhanced XFS support contract, right?
<daftykins> yeah, i guess it'd be software
<mungbean> the other one is LSI
<daftykins> LSI bought 3ware though
<daftykins> so might just be the rebranding?
<mungbean> lspci looks quite different, certainly different cards
<daftykins> ah
<mungbean> moving to GPFS soon so ready to bin this anyway
<mungbean> is the egyptian dude  mohammed badie a goodie or a baddie?
<mungbean> "The Ubuntu Edge shortfall is the same as it cost Mark to go into space." -mjg59 ..there u go dwatkins
<Monotoko> When is the Ubuntu phone coming out?
<popey> Monotoko: there will be a software release in sync with 13.10 in October
<Monotoko> popey: how much? And do they take regular SIM cards?
<Monotoko> (I meant the actual phone, not the OS)
<daftykins> #ubuntu-touch
<daftykins> ^i think that's the channel with all the details and so forth
<Monotoko> cheers daftykins (now to work out how to join a new channel with irssi)
<daftykins>  /j #chan ;)
<Monotoko> same as always then :P
<Monotoko> Can I connect to multiple networks?
<daftykins> yep i'm on 2
<marxjohnson> Monotoko: #irssi ;)
<marxjohnson> but yes, you can
<Monotoko> thanks, I will have a Google around first
<mungbean> i have to write all my irssi commands down as i forget them if irssi crashses
<popey> Monotoko: we don't have a release date for a phone yet
<popey> other than the ubuntu edge
<popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge/x/1051579
<directhex> Monotoko, "the ubuntu phone" isn't coming out, unless someone sinks $20M into it within a couple of days
<daftykins> hehe, i just did them once to set it up initially, so now i don't have a clue how to do stuff \o/
<popey> directhex: no
<popey> the ubuntu _edge_
<popey> Ubuntu Phone != Ubuntu Edge
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu Phone â Ubuntu Edge ;)
<Monotoko> Ack... 20 mil to go
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> i almost don't want it to get a time extension so i won't have to hear about it anymore \o/
<popey> Nice.
<directhex> a time extension won't help with the missteps that lead to this point
<dvrr> popey
<popey> dvrr: other people are available
<daftykins> if you have a question, ask away!
<popey> Is this going to be a java performance related question perhaps?
<dvrr> yes
<dvrr> i have already discussed
<directhex> give it more RAM.
<dvrr> ya now available 16gb ram
<Monotoko> give it more RAM... the solution to everything
<Monotoko> or a reboot
<Monotoko> either or
<daftykins> except 'why isn't more RAM working? :('
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> Faster SSDs!
<daftykins> MOAR
<dvrr> ya i reboot  server also
<directhex> daftykins, there's an answer to that too
<directhex> java has a hard limit on how much ram it uses, set by the -Xmx flag
<popey> useful for making sure minecraft doesn't kill your server
<dvrr> i set Xmx 6000MB in catalina.sh file
<MartijnVdS> how much RAM do you have?
<dvrr> 16G RAM i have
<daftykins> directhex: true, doh
<dvrr> java cpu usage http://paste.ubuntu.com/6006117/  open this url
<ali1234> what are you doing that is using so much ram?
<dvrr> ,apache,mod_jk, mysql ,two tomcat servers  section replication
<Monotoko> ... who on earth named a freenode server moorcock?
<daftykins> i know right.
<daftykins> had to be a joke
<Myrtti> might have been a suggestion from the sponsor, or could have been a slow day at the freenode office ;-)
<Myrtti> I can't remember if I've ever read anything of his
<Monotoko> I accidentally put my question in the main #ubuntu channel before here >.<
<daftykins> you're lucky you didn't get chased out by an army of penguins
<Monotoko> still getting used to this irssi stuff... I'm a sysadmin, so it looks like I'm working
<DJones> Its not the army of penguins, its the sharp pointy stick of doom you have to watch out for :)
 * Monotoko bangs head on keyboard
<Monotoko> I hate SQL
<lornajane> I love SQL but I'm not sure it always feels the same way about me
<Monotoko> my joins are wrong and I can't figure out how to fix them :(
<popey> I am ambivalent about SQL
<lornajane> Monotoko: can we help?
<Monotoko> lornajane: you're free to have a go... basically I need to get Rotarians.MemEmail, but I'm not sure how to join the Rotarians table without it bringing back an empty set: http://pastie.org/8253227
<lornajane> Monotoko: which columns do Clubs or clubofficeholders have in common with Rotarians?
<daftykins> DJones: i never see who wields it, i only feel the occasional sharp jab...
<Monotoko> lornajane: there is a RotID in both clubofficeholders and Rotarians
<Monotoko> so basically the clubofficeholder, for example 'webmaster', is in the clubofficeholders table with a ClubID and a RotID... which I then have to go looking for (it's not the best designed table... and wasn't designed by me)
<lornajane> okay so you can LEFT JOIN (right before the WHERE) Rotarians on (clubofficeholders.RotID = Rotarians.RotID)
<lornajane> then you can add your Rotarians.MemEmail into the select list and if that exists for this person, it'll show up, and otherwise it'll be NULL in that column
<Monotoko> lornajane: let me give that a go, thank you
<mungbean> i have a weird massive red rash on my arm
<mungbean> after exposure to sunlight for 5-10 mins although its not sunburn
<Monotoko> Gah... doesn't look like their going to honour the insurance
<mungbean> scummers
<mungbean> has it ever had a sim?
<Monotoko> mungbean: Yeah - it's in my crappy phone atm as I have just come back from holiday
<Monotoko> and didn't want to take my iPhone in case I lost it abroad... go figure
<mungbean> how would they know?
<mungbean> and why would they care?
<Monotoko> I stupidly told them on the claim form, mentioned that I had it IMEI blocked anyway so no other UK network could use it
<Monotoko> didn't realise it was an exclusion
<joshmyers> hey guys, looking for a regexp to match a pattern that is stats.x.x.deployments
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: love the bass in A Ritual In Time And Death
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<bigcalm> Morning
<Monotoko> I can't get this join right, so far this is working and getting all the secretaries for clubs that don't have a webmaster position. The webmaster position is defined by: clubofficeholders.cluboffid = 36 - I need to somehow JOIN clubofficers (cluboffid is in both) and get the MailUser from there instead so I can plug in webmaster, president etc
<Monotoko> http://pastie.org/8253468
<Monotoko> anyone got any ideas how I'd go about this? It's killing me :(
<davmor2> joshmyers: sure just "cat file | grep -e ^stats.*.*.deployments" will be enough then  but I'm no expert
<joshmyers> cheers davmor2 :)
<mungbean> anyone use goodreads?
<Monotoko> diddledan_: was it you who I remember knowing SQL?
<diddledan_> I know enough to get by :-)
<Monotoko> can you give us a hand? I'm completely stuck :(
<Monotoko> I may need to repaste the messages?
<Monotoko> :P
<diddledan_> what's the issue?
<Monotoko> < Monotoko> I can't get this join right, so far this is working and getting all the secretaries for clubs that don't have a webmaster position. The webmaster position  is defined by: clubofficeholders.cluboffid = 36 - I need to somehow JOIN clubofficers (cluboffid is in both) and get the MailUser from there instead so I  can plug in webmaster, president etc
<diddledan_> I'll do my best
<Monotoko> 13:49 < Monotoko> http://pastie.org/8253468
<Monotoko> basically that
<bigcalm> Monotoko: I think you might have to use "having"
<bigcalm> Join on one field and then use having on the others
<Monotoko> ... not heard of having, can I have an example?
<bigcalm> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/group-by-extensions.html
<bigcalm> Consider that this is from an idle glance
<diddledan_> AND clubofficeholders.cluboffid = 36 AND clubofficeholders.YrID=109 needs to be someplace after the WHERE?
<Monotoko> I noticed that, but I'm not using group by and looking at those examples, I can't think how I'd use it?
<diddledan_> try with http://pastie.org/8253515
<Monotoko> diddledan_: the query works fine right now... when I'm just using cluboffid=36 (webmaster) but I basically need instead of clubofficeholders.cluboffid = 36 to have clubofficers.MailUser='webmaster'
<Monotoko> so I need to join the clubofficers table somehow...
<diddledan_> oic
<ali1234> i think you need an invite for the captain's table
<mungbean> ooo-arrrr
<mungbean> capn fishy
<Monotoko> captain's table?
<MooDoo> Monotoko: he was being silly
<mungbean> everyones a bit drunk on sunshine
<mungbean> fortunately my arm is no longer bright red. was worried for a bit
<MooDoo> i think you'll find thats you ;)
<Monotoko> :( I've dealt with too much SQL today to deal with sunshine
<mungbean> i'm also a bit bored
<MooDoo> anyone know convert and how to convert nef to jpg nefs are split between folders?
<diddledan_> what about a fake join? http://pastie.org/8253525
<mungbean> i thought there was a fire alarm at the hospital but it was just all the smokers having a fag at the gate
<MooDoo> getting fedup with ufraw-batch lol
<mungbean> #britishproblems
<ali1234> MooDoo: convert -format jpg foo.nef
<diddledan_> afaik that's the same as an innerjoin
<ali1234> MooDoo: assuming IM supports nef, that should be enough
<diddledan_> WHERE clubofficers.cluboffid = clubofficeholders.cluboffid
<mgdm> MooDoo: find . -name \*.nef -exec convert {} ${}.jpg \;
<mgdm> MooDoo: find . -name \*.nef -exec convert {} {}.jpg \;
<MooDoo> ali1234: yeah i know that, but I want the nefs from folder1 folder2 and folder3 converting to jpegs in backup/folder1 folder2 etc
<mgdm> MooDoo: find . -name \*.nef -exec convert {} backup/{}.jpg \;
<Monotoko> diddledan_: let me have a go..
<MooDoo> mgdm: i'll try that, thanks
<Monotoko> diddledan_: where do I want to be putting my clubofficers.MailUser='webmaster' rule?
<Monotoko> which would then make clubofficeholders.cluboffid = 36 redundant (hopefully)
<diddledan_> Monotoko, you can put that in after WHERE
<Monotoko> diddledan_: Bah, ERROR 1054 (42S22): Unknown column 'Clubs.ClubID' in 'on clause'
<diddledan_> o_O
<Monotoko> Yeah... I find that odd too
<diddledan_> that's part of the original query which worked
<Monotoko> Clubs.ClubID exists
<ali1234> you've got to look at the order of the operators
<daftykins> i hope you're giving them a cut of your pay, Monotoko ;)
<diddledan_> yes please :-p
<Monotoko> diddledan_: where abouts in the UK are you? I could buy you a drink if you're not too far :P
<diddledan_> hehe, I'm in basingstoke
<Monotoko> diddledan_: if you're ever in the Devon area let me know ;)
<diddledan_> right-o :-)
<daftykins> my word, only 17-9 deg C out there and yet i'm melting after a cycle back 'n' forth
<daftykins> i've got 6km to go tomorrow - that's going to be... tough
<daftykins> fair bit uphill
<Monotoko> diddledan_: this is the kind of thing I'm after, http://pastie.org/8253558
<Monotoko> but for some reason... that's only bringing me back two results...
<Monotoko> two correct results
<Monotoko> but only two
<daftykins> cor, glad i'm not you, sir
<ali1234> Monotoko: do you have your schema and a precise statement of what you are trying to do?
<Monotoko> ali1234: is my statement of what I'm trying to do not clear enough? (I know it's confusing...) and how do I get a schema?
<diddledan_> here's a useful diagram on how joins work: https://plus.google.com/111053008130113715119/posts/5TdpUKQXxpu
<Monotoko> (Yeah.. I don't do much SQL)
<ali1234> well, i don't know what you're trying to do besides write an SQL query
<ali1234> the schema is the layout of the tables in your database, ie what fields each one has
<Monotoko> ali1234: basically as it stands, this query works: http://pastie.org/8253468 - it gets all the clubs without a webmaster (number 36) and rewrites the null email address so it forwards to the secretary, this can then be put through postfix no problems.
<Monotoko> but it will only work for the webmaster, as I used the number 36 - instead of getting joining clubofficers and getting MailUser
<ali1234> mailuser is what?
<ali1234> what is the actual problem that you are trying to solve?
<ali1234> in english
<bigcalm> Anybody had thunderflies die inside their monitor? I've got a lovely one right in the middle. Tried this http://superuser.com/questions/76153/removing-dead-thunderflies-stuck-inside-an-lcd-monitor but it didn't work for me. Anybody with ideas of removing them?
<ali1234> eg "i have a database of clubs and i want to find the ones which don't have a member marked as the webmaster"
<ali1234> bigcalm: you could try putting a spider inside the monitor
<Monotoko> that's basically it ali1234, I have that list - but I now need to do it for every post which is defined in the mailuser column (webmaster, president, etc)
<Monotoko> so postfix will pass in %u which is the bit before the @, eg: president@rotary1170.org
<ali1234> ok, so you need to join with the table that maps IDs to roles, ie 36 -> "webmaster" etc?
<Monotoko> then it will send to all presidents (that bit is done) and any club who doesn't have a president, it will send to their secretary instead
<Monotoko> yeah that's it
<mungbean> bigcalm: got a pic of yours?
<ali1234> rather than hardcoding 36 and "webmaster"
<Monotoko> Yeah
<bigcalm> o.O
<ali1234> yeah i see the problem here
<bigcalm> mungbean: same as the one in that link really
<ali1234> the problem being you're trying to find something that isn't in the database
<mungbean> looked like a bunch of dead pixels
<ali1234> where as SQL is designed to find things that are in the database :)
<ali1234> it's possible to do this though
<bigcalm> mungbean: it's a tiny fly
<mungbean> what manufacturer?
<bigcalm> Of fly?
<bigcalm> Erm, nature
<Monotoko> ali1234: I hope so, I've been banging my head against it all day
<ali1234> thing is, if you take that existing query and add another inner join at the end, it will just drop all null results, which of course is what you are after - because the missing entries are null
<bigcalm> mungbean: dell
<mungbean> montiro size?
<bigcalm> 22"
<Monotoko> ali1234: Ahhh that makes sense... I did that, got an empty set
<ali1234> yeah... if you select all the entries that don't exist - you'll get a null set :)
<mungbean> if it takes up more than 5 pixels i'd take the back off
<bigcalm> Googling for just "thunderfly" returns a page full of dead ones in screens
<bigcalm> It's irritating
<mungbean> although i got a spec of dirt on my tablet thats about 1px and really annoys
<Monotoko> ali1234: I'm going to murder, in cold blood, whoever designed this thing
<mungbean> i had a 5px streak on my laptop and dell repalced it
<ali1234> Monotoko: so what do you exactly expect from the query, at the end?
<mungbean> 1 week before 3yr warranty expired
<Monotoko> ali1234: a list of secretaries, which is currently being done for the webmaster group: eg: secretary@babbacombestmarychurch.rotary1170.org
<ali1234> hmm
<Monotoko> that's coming from here: IFNULL(clubofficeholders.FwdEmail, CONCAT("secretary@", Clubs.FwdDomain))
<ali1234> hmm i still don't quite understand this
<ali1234> the existing generates a list of clubs and their secretaries which do not have an exlicitly defined webmaster?
<bigcalm> mungbean: http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/thunderfly.jpg
<Monotoko> ali1234: exactly
<ali1234> and you want to do this for all job types
<Monotoko> ali1234: Yeah, defined in clubofficers.mailuser
<ali1234> but if you do that... how will you know the difference between a club that has no webmaster and a club that has no president?
<mungbean> bigcalm: sucks dude
<bigcalm> mungbean: yus
<mungbean> i need to clean my screen, it looked liek u had loads
<bigcalm> LOL
<mungbean> i have a 4 screen setup atm
<Monotoko> ali1234: well at the moment webmaster is hardcoded in: clubofficeholders.cluboffid = 36
<ali1234> yes
<diddledan_> I want moar monitors
 * popey is back to 1 monitor
<diddledan_> problem is I'm running on a laptop atm
<diddledan_> so I've got the inbuilt and the external
<mungbean> synergy
<Monotoko> this is why I need to use the mailuser instead... because when someone emails webmaster@, this query will run and generate a list of all the clubs that don't have that mailuser
<ali1234> Monotoko: so what happens if you delete that line/clause?
<mgdm> if I open tmux, ssh to a remote machine, and then run htop there, it doesn't update
<ali1234> you will get a list of every unfilled role in every club (in theory)
<Monotoko> ali1234: sounds about right
<Monotoko> ali1234: it's bringing back two rows
<Monotoko> .....
<ali1234> the problem though is if you inner join that with the id->role table, it will drop all the null lines, which are the ones you are looking for
<ali1234> what's this other table called btw?
<ali1234> clubofficers?
<Monotoko> ali1234: which one? The one with the mailuser? Yeah
<ali1234> so you want to inner join clubofficeholders and clubofficers first
<mungbean> isn't that a dodgy shop selling cheap shoes?
<ali1234> then right join that with clubs
<Monotoko> before the left joins?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> which means you'll then have to use a right join instead since the order is reversed
<ali1234> something like this: http://pastie.org/8253628
<ali1234> obviously i don't know all the field names
<ali1234> the key point here is you don't necessarily start with the most obvious table
<ali1234> also this might all be nonsense, i don't do much SQL
<Monotoko> ali1234: For some reason, that's coming back with every club in the district
<Monotoko> even ones with a webmaster :(
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> if they have a webmaster but not some other rle
<Monotoko> how do I make it do just webmaster at this point?
<Monotoko> then bring in %u variable from postfix... and it should do webmaster, etc then, right?
<ali1234> AND clubofficers.rolename = "webmaster" <- should do that
<Monotoko> ... that's in there on line 8??
<Monotoko> or should it be after the where as well?
<ali1234> yes, but it's not necessarily the right field name
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lx87130zdih6r7o/IMG_20130820_154446.jpg
<Monotoko> it's clubofficers.mailuser, I already changed it
<daftykins> two almost identical Acer laptops DC jacks, both with their negatives detached D:
<daftykins> cost of a pint each to fix 2 laptops? aww yeah
<ali1234> Monotoko: if you delete the whole right join you should get a list of all officers who hold some position
<ali1234> if you add clubofficers.mailuser to the select line you'll see their role in that output too
<Monotoko> ali1234: http://pastie.org/8253648
<Monotoko> it's giving me an empty set >.<
<ali1234> yess
<ali1234> look at line 7 and 8
<ali1234> mailuser canot = 36 *and* "webmaster" at the same time
<ali1234> this is why i asked for schema :P
<Monotoko> ohhhhhh, got it
<Monotoko> thank you so much for this btw
<Monotoko> same goes for you, if you're anywhere near Devon any time give me a shout and il buy you a drink
<ali1234> the key thing to take from this is each time you do a join it operates on "everything up to this point" <-> the thing you join it to
<ali1234> so that inner join is building a table like clubofficeholders except it also has a row with the textual version of role name
<ali1234> *column sorry
<ali1234> or field
<Monotoko> I see, I will have to play around a bit more with joins once this is all done so I can understand them better
<ali1234> this is actually the identical problem i faced last time i tried to do some SQL
<ali1234> someone asked for a list of all items that aren't x,y, or z
<ali1234> i'm looking at what i did, and yeah, i had to do the inner join first because of the nulls
<davmor2> joshmyers: did that work by the way?
<ali1234> fun fact: SQL was intended for non-technical users to interact with databases
<ali1234> at least that's what they told me in university
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> if i had to work in MS circles i would not be able to bring myself to say 'sequel'
<daftykins> crazy how some industry terms can be rooted in complete inaccuracy Â¬_Â¬
<mungbean> how do you pronounce Qt
<ali1234> the thing it's based on was called SEQUEL though
<daftykins> yep
<mungbean> keoootee or cute
<daftykins> but then it was no longer the same thing
<ali1234> i like to call it "squeal"
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: "suckle"
<daftykins> definitely the reaction to using it
<daftykins> squirrel would be good
<ali1234> mungbean: coyote? nobody pronounces it like that. Q.T. or cute
<daftykins> gotta work on some squirrel today
<mungbean> i mean Q.T or cute
<ali1234> mungbean: cute is the official way but even the high up project people will often say "Q.T." accidentally when they get excited
<mungbean> RHS of atlantic = q.t. LHS=cute?
<bigcalm> cutie?
<mungbean> ducky?
<mungbean> gif is jif. but jif is now cif.
<ali1234> jif is yiff
<directhex> jraphics interchange format
<mungbean> jif the kitchen cleaner
<daftykins> was
<ali1234> yeah, that's why they renamed it
<mungbean> cos of spaniards?
<ali1234> yiff means... something you wouldn't want in yur kitchen
<mungbean> poo?
<ali1234> no
<directhex> they standardized the brand globally
<directhex> well, partially
<directhex> it's still Jif in Australia, New Zealand, Middle East and the Nordic countries
<mungbean> i still call oil of ulay, oil of ulay
<MooDoo> rubbish it's coz people couldn't say jif
<MooDoo> they why they renamed it
<ali1234> who can't say jif?
<mungbean> they can, but pronounce it wrong
<MartijnVdS> just call it Cif
<mungbean> or smb
<MooDoo> it's like i still call them opal fruits and marathons :) lo
<mungbean> i was in russia and there was something twix-like called raider
<mungbean> Twix was called Raider in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Spain,..
<directhex> marathon bars!
<davmor2> mungbean: Q Toolkit
<directhex> opal fruits!
<daftykins> this conversation is getting way out of hand D:
<mungbean>  for many years before its name was changed in 1991
<MartijnVdS> it's that old?
<mungbean> cam out in 1967
<MartijnVdS> QT?
<mungbean> twix
<MooDoo> pah people thing 1991 is old :( lol
<MartijnVdS> I remember they had a big renaming here
<MartijnVdS> from Raider to Twix
<MooDoo> opal fruits to starburst
<MooDoo> marathon to snickers
<MartijnVdS> and later from "Smith's" to "Lay's" (which you call "Walkers")
<mungbean> in 2013 Mars, Inc changed the size of the Twix standard bars from 58g down to 50g.
<mungbean> rip off britain
<MooDoo> you all know about - http://www.aquarterof.co.uk/ ?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: do now ;)
<ali1234> fizzy cola bottles
<daftykins> MooDoo: ty sir
<ali1234> i used to love those
<mungbean> i still eat them
<MooDoo> that site is dangerous to my wallet
<mungbean> i have 2 every night after dinner
<daftykins> + teeth?
<MooDoo> yup :D
<ali1234> i'm just imagining someone eating them with a knife and fork
<davmor2> MooDoo: Space dust
<ali1234> as the dessert course of a posh dinner
<daftykins> ali1234: cola bottles? hahaha
<MooDoo> davmor2: heh we gave my daughter some of that the other week lol
<daftykins> delectable dessert O_.
<ali1234> this amuses me more than it probably should
<mungbean> i knew i shouldn't introduce quidco to my missis. she bought something that wasn't eligible in order to get an offer . no cash back, and wasn't going to buy the thing in the first place
<popey> there's a shop round the corner from here which sells loads of that stuff
<popey> http://www.americansweets.co.uk
<MooDoo> OMG TWINKIES
<davmor2> popey: there is one of those in Bridge North too
<mungbean> woo desktop pc  16:24:56 up 502 days,  1:12,  3 users,  load average: 1.29, 0.40, 0.26
<MooDoo> ah looks like it needs a reboot ;)
<mungbean> nevarrrr
<daftykins> power cut... right about... nao
<Myrtti> oh dear I don't want to buy a new laptop but it finally seems to be the time to let this old horse go
<daftykins> Myrtti: what's it doing wrong? :(
<Myrtti> first the encrypted partition went haywire last week, I think I hear some minor side noise now, and it's dead slow
<Myrtti> so I think it's really starting to go
<mungbean> how old?
<daftykins> disk healthy? memtest? take it apart \o/
<Myrtti> 2007 or so
<Myrtti> mind you it's Dell so it's already lasted longer than I expected
<daftykins> hah
<mungbean> my dell is 5 years old,
<Myrtti> if it were only the harddrive I'd change it, but the screen is somewhat shot too
<Myrtti> with dead bugs inside and the LED's losing luminosity
<daftykins> ah, sounds like you've given it as much as you could
<daftykins> Haswell time \o/
<mungbean> thunder flies?
<Myrtti> yup
<MartijnVdS> the tiny tiny ones
 * daftykins makes a rumbling sound with a wobble-board beside mungbean 
<Myrtti> they've died, gone to heaven, and left black and bright glitches on the screen
<mungbean> bigcalm: ^^
 * bigcalm looks in?
<mungbean> thunderflies, look!
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I feel your pain
<mungbean> 26 nodes won't turn on with IPMI :(
<Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/3671872678/in/datetaken/
<jpds> Myrtti: Dell == Doesn't Ever Last Long?
<mungbean> business ones definitely do
<popey> wakka wakka wakka
<popey> i used to love my latitude
<popey> even had a nipple!
<mungbean> latitude d630 here
<mungbean> blue flat niplle
<Myrtti> mungbean: yeah, that's the one I have
<mungbean> core2duo?
<popey> yeah
<Myrtti> Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T7100  @ 1.80GHz
<popey> i had an i7 one before I left $last_job
<popey> was very nice
<Myrtti> I was sure I had more ram...
<daftykins> hehe
<mungbean> looks like this? http://i.imgur.com/LJbz7Jl.jpg
<daftykins> it snuck away!
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/TINY-WIRELESS-BLUETOOTH-ADAPTER-DONGLE/dp/B0013BFQUE/ref=pd_bxgy_rec-spk_text_y
<popey> 34p!
<Myrtti> well I suppose four is all I have then
<Monotoko> ali1234: worked wonderfully... got it into postfix like magic \o/
<mungbean> an SSD might give you bit more life in it
<ali1234> Monotoko: cool :)
<mungbean> i got a fsaer disk some years ago and really felt the speed
<davmor2> popey: I have an i7 and I can confirm it's very nice :)
<Myrtti> mungbean: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/3200416133/in/datetaken/ when I got it
<Myrtti> I've changed the keyboard twice since then
<Monotoko> ali1234: thank you so much, I wouldn't have got as far as I did in not nearly as little time if you weren't around
<mungbean> yay for dell d630
<daftykins> oh my word
<daftykins> that looks like the old d505s
 * popey has two workmen in his house
<daftykins> D:
<mungbean> is that a euphemism?
<popey> heh, no
<popey> building ikea furniture for me \o/
<daftykins> O_O
<mungbean> i think my d630 should last a bit longer
<daftykins> where's the fun in that :(
<MartijnVdS> but that removes all the fun from ikea furniture!
<popey> the fun is it arrives then it's built
<popey> and I didnt have to do anything
<mungbean> had a new screen and hinge on warranty
<popey> (other than move out the way)
<mungbean> i bought my 630 for Â£450 from outlet
<Monotoko> you should bill them extra for having to move out of the way
<MartijnVdS> I had people build and install my Ikea kitchen for me
<Monotoko> especially if it was in the way of the kettle
<mungbean> Myrtti: i preferred my picture because of doggy ;0
<davmor2> popey: you idle toad, paying someone else to build your ikea furniture is a new low :D
<popey> we had a room decorated, floor layed, added "make the furniture" on top because he offered :p
<daftykins> he even gets shopping delivered :(
<daftykins> ;)
<mungbean> whatever keeps the wife happy...
<davmor2> popey: fair enough then
<popey> exactly
<davmor2> popey: plus of course it doesn't fall apart the minute you sneeze in it's general direction ;)
<Myrtti> mungbean: I prefer mine because Marimekko box ;-P
<davmor2> Myrtti: I love my ideapad Y580, the only issue I have is the stupid touchpad with it's fake buttons that are still part of the pad.
<popey> davmor2: thats partly why, he puts it together better than me
<mungbean> i was hoping the asus transformer would have taken over the world by the time i needed a new lappy
<davmor2> popey: haha I actually enjoy putting ours together it's like lego and meccano for adults
<popey> nah, lego and meccano you can do on a desk
<popey> this thing is massive
<MartijnVdS> hence the 'for adults' bit :P
<davmor2> popey: however trying to move the things after is no fun at all :)
<popey> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qVs2AWhY2Ow/UhOODVNdFlI/AAAAAAAAd-w/TKZRShJxQls/w1204-h903-no/IMG_1784.JPG
<MartijnVdS> popey: PAX?
<popey> ya
<MartijnVdS> ph34r my l33t IKEA recognising sk1llz
<ali1234> has anyone come up with a trick to make linux steam run the windows games in wine?
<Myrtti> I've got four preferred companies that I'd like the lappy be made by, but the whole UEFI thing is a bit spooky, and I've so badly fallen off the wagon in keeping my knowledge up about what's good nowadays. And of course the hardest part is making decisions.
<Myrtti> well, obviously it can't be made by all four, but one of the four. And in my dream universe it would have Intel chipset.
<daftykins> so far i've seen a lot of situations where you can still disable UEFI
<daftykins> time may well be running out on that front though :(
<popey> Why would you want to disable UEFI?
<Myrtti> well considering my list includes Samsung, it is really really spooky
<popey> I mean, I can understand why you'd want to disable Secure Boot..
<MartijnVdS> ALso, "disabling UEFI" usually means "enabling a BIOS-emulator inside UEFI"
<popey> UEFI is a Good Thingâ¢
<davmor2> popey: I had an entire bedroom, office, livingroom to fit out plus a bathroom cabinet.  The heaviest thing by far even with the draws our is this http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S29902933/
<daftykins> because certain methods of bypassing Windows 7 activation only work on legacy installs ;)
<daftykins> *whistle*
<popey> moving on
<popey> I do like the slide Bear Grylls has installed on his island in wales
<popey> https://twitter.com/BearGrylls/status/369363102644457472
<MartijnVdS> !piracy | daftykins
<lubotu3> daftykins: piracy discussion and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o
<MartijnVdS> :P
<daftykins> please don't waste my time with that
<daftykins> that's a nice slide
<mungbean> a slide?
<popey> ya
<MartijnVdS> Bear Grylls' slide
<davmor2> popey:  I love the bump at the bottom of it to push it out past the rocks :D
<mungbean> my son got a new slide
<mungbean> he slides down, gets up and goes on it again, ad inifintum
<mungbean> smiling the whole time
<popey> slides rock
<daftykins> ^_^
<Myrtti> Samsung NP900X3C-A02 looks very nice
<popey> if I had one I'd do the same
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> sometimes he says weeeeeeeeeeeee
<Myrtti> is it true that the newer kernels don't brick Samsungs anymore?
<daftykins> Myrtti: my friend has one of the earlier ones of those, nice little systems if battery life isn't a great concern
<daftykins> yeah they fixed that by now i'd have thought
<popey> Myrtti: nice but odd resolution
<popey> i really dont like these laptops that give you the illusion they're thin
<daftykins> i saw a death watch beetle (woodworm type) on the front of my house today =|
<davmor2> Myrtti: Uefi is no problem unless you want to dual boot then it is a bit more work than it used to be.  The only drawback if you can call it that is you need to install Ubuntu 64bit as it is the only one that supports UEFI out of the box.
 * popey suspects Myrtti would install debian
<davmor2> popey: Myrtti ah then it might be :)
<Myrtti> ohmygawd NP530U3C is available in pink
<bigcalm> 2nd hand Galaxy Nexus for 143 +6.63 P&P : worth it?
 * Myrtti swoons
<mungbean> pink laptops never get stolen
<mungbean> ...or re-sold
<Myrtti> bigcalm: almost bought one for my sister at about that price
<Myrtti> mungbean: well it seems that I use my laptops to the death
<daftykins> Myrtti: just had one of those in with a broken screen, friends sisters. they're pretty terrible
<daftykins> well, hers was the 535U3C-A01UK
<mungbean> do you have dell outlet in finland?
<Myrtti> so reselling isn't really an issue
<Myrtti> mungbean: debatably yes
<davmor2> bigcalm: mine was 163 from CEX so it's about the going rate it seems :)
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> davmor2: better to buy from a CEX shop rather than amazon?
<Myrtti> in which debatably means that the best stuff is only sold if you have a tax number
<Myrtti> and selection even then is questionable
<davmor2> bigcalm: no it's just cex take money which is what I had for Christmas :)
<bigcalm> Aha, yes
 * bigcalm takes a punt with Amazon
<davmor2> bigcalm: you after a galaxy to put ubuntu touch on :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: yes
<bigcalm> davmor2: seems the cheapest option
<davmor2> bigcalm: the bug has finally bitten you then :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: there are some things I want to try out :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah next would be the n4 if you want to edge your bets
<bigcalm> davmor2: yes, except 270 quid is a little much just to play with ubuntu touch :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: you'll start swiping on android phones and not understand why it doesn't work I warn you :)
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<bigcalm> No swiping?
<bigcalm> davmor2: where's your sgs3 now?
<bigcalm> "Please limit your text to less than 4,000 characters."
<davmor2> bigcalm: in a draw in the livingroom where it sits till I need a satnav or a phone for holiday where I need to share the t'interwebz
<bigcalm> Damn you Amazon, that should be "fewer"
<bigcalm> davmor2: does it take a micro sim?
<bigcalm> Though I'm unlikely to put a sim in one any time soon
<bigcalm> Like my sgs3 too much :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: the galaxy nexus takes a regular sim, but you can get a converter for next to nothing
<bigcalm> I have a converter. Bought one just before taking my sgs3 to t-mobile for repair. Knew the loan phone would need it
<bigcalm> Trying to think what questions to ask the seller before ordering
<davmor2> bigcalm: age, modded, scratches, does it all work, how long is the battery lasting
<bigcalm> "Unlocked to all networks and upgraded to latest 4.3 android jellybean. Normal wear and tear with some but screen is excellent. Comes with original box and accessories (except headphones), white cover and extra battery (useful for travelling)."
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh and ensure it is the gsm version not the cdma one
<bigcalm> davmor2: how would one know?
<davmor2> should be in the description :)
<bigcalm> It's not, so how does one find out?
<davmor2> bigcalm: ask the seller?
<davmor2> you were looking for questions
<Myrtti> does it mention t-mobile in the description? if buying from US
<bigcalm> Sure, in case they don't know, how can I help them find out?
<bigcalm> Myrtti: it doesn't. It's also the .co.uk site. Can't see the location of the seller but the P&P is 6.63
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm assuming it is to be honest as it is unlocked for all networks and you are on amazon.co.uk
<bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aag/main?ie=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=&isCBA=&marketplaceID=A1F83G8C2ARO7P&orderID=&seller=AR133AU9FZPCI
<bigcalm> GSM/CDMA is only if I want to use a sim on it surely? Ubuntu Touch will work with either?
<Myrtti> if the ASIN changes between GSM/CDMA, then that one is GSM
<popey> GSM only
<bigcalm> I have no idea what that means :)
<popey> We don't yet support CDMA
<bigcalm> popey: okay, thanks
<Myrtti> because searching with the ASIN it turns up the US Amazon where it is sold as unlocked GSM
<Myrtti> well, I don't think it actually was ever made as anything than gsm version, but afaik it needs to be t-mobile version... dunno tho
<bigcalm> Email sent.
<bigcalm> Oh
<davmor2> bigcalm: the version gt-i9250 is the one you want which is on the label under the battery
<bigcalm> Gah, just sent the email
<bigcalm> Will wait for a response
<davmor2> bigcalm: hence me saying ensure it is the gsm version :)
<bigcalm> Walkies!
<Monotoko> ... I'm having a horrible day
<Monotoko> I forgot the root password of the server I set up last week -.-
<mgdm> have you got physical access to it?
<Laney> hunter2
<MartijnVdS> Laney: *******
<Laney> good to see that still works
<popey> hmm
<popey> i appear to need to compile a kernel
<mgdm> oh, fun
<popey> with a one line patch
<mgdm> that's not something I've had to do in ages
<popey> I'm running http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.10.7-saucy/ so i grabbed https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v3.x/linux-3.10.7.tar.xz
<popey> and then patched with the 0001, 2, 3 in the ppa folder
<popey> then I will add my one line patch
<popey> I stupidly thought I could "debuild" it
<popey> but noooo
<ali1234> hehehe, the kernel package is super weird
<popey> yay, don't need to now
<popey> found out it's in 3.11-rc6
<popey> which we have here http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.11-rc6-saucy/
<popey> WIN!
<ali1234> oh wait, you're not even attempting to build a package?
<davmor2> popey: you got the kernel team to build it :D
<popey> i was going to build  akernel package
<popey> but dont need to now
<ali1234> yeah the kernels on kernel.org don't have debian packaging
<popey> yeah, but thats ok, because the patches do
<popey> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.11-rc6-saucy/0001-base-packaging.patch does
<popey> anyway, not going to build it now, panic over
<ali1234> yeah... even then, you don't build then with debuild
<popey> yeah, not done it for so long
 * popey reboots into 3.11-ec6
<popey> *rc
<MartijnVdS> good luck
 * popey leaves a ping running rather than walk 15 feet to the machine
<MartijnVdS> popey: I do that with my openwrt routers :)
<popey> always nice to see the transition...
<popey> From 192.168.1.115 icmp_seq=89 Destination Host Unreachable
<popey> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.2: icmp_seq=90 ttl=64 time=2009 ms
<popey> Linux homeserver 3.11.0-031100rc6-generic #201308181835 SMP Sun Aug 18 22:35:54 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<popey> \o/
<MartijnVdS> \o/
 * popey scrubs
<popey> and hopes it doesn't OOM this time
<popey> https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/2697501/  being the one line patch i needed â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: I have some rc installed as well, because it fixes a Haswell USB3 bug 8-)
<lubotu3> bug 8 in Launchpad itself "Translator forums/means of communication" [Low,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8
<MartijnVdS> The controller is newer than the older driver expected
<MartijnVdS> bad lubotu3
<daftykins> 2TB WD Red drive arrived today \o/
<diddledan> what am I doing wrong? http://paste.ubuntu.com/6007238/
<daftykins> Â£68.48
<diddledan> daftykins, nice price
<daftykins> i'm afraid i'm cheating in no VAT land
<daftykins> ;)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: have you tried supplying the whole path?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: not just "vg0/mirror"
<diddledan> that reports no pool with matching name ''
<MartijnVdS> and just 'mirror'?
<diddledan> ERROR    Error with storage parameters: Storage volume must be specified as vol=poolname/volname
<MartijnVdS> it looks very weird though
<daftykins> does it not get weirded out by the space in "--disk vol" ?
<popey> top - 18:42:06 up 10 min,  1 user,  load average: 14.69, 11.92, 6.18
<popey> poor little microserver
<daftykins> wowzer
<daftykins> you're killing it :'(
<popey> its "busy" â»
<popey> just been rebooted to the daap server is scanning all the.. uh... "media"
<popey> and btrfs scrub running, and wget mirroring another site
<popey> busy busy busy life of a microserver
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> ah reminds me
<diddledan> daftykins, if it's not liking the space then what should it be?
<daftykins> finished playing game with friend, must restart downloaderisings
<daftykins> diddledan: was just a guess, given your errors it probably is taking it correctly
<popey> btrfs is kicking the crap out of all 12 disks
<popey> \o/
<diddledan> 12?!
<diddledan> in a microserver? is there even enough room in one of those?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6007262/
<popey> scrub scrub scrub
<popey> external 8-way array
<diddledan> aah, nice
<MartijnVdS> popey: how much space is that in total?
<popey> I â¥ btrfs
<popey> /dev/sdc         22T   12T   10T  53% /srv
<MartijnVdS> that's.. quite a bit of space
<diddledan> 22T?! yowzers
<daftykins> what are the drives?
<diddledan> I want now
 * popey shrugs
<MartijnVdS> popey: just dmesg | pastebinit  and they'll be happy
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6007270/
<popey> tea time
<daftykins> samsungs 0o
<daftykins> ruh-roh
<daftykins> http://forums.seagate.com/t5/Desktop-HDD-Desktop-SSHD/BEWARE-the-so-called-Samsung-HD204UI/td-p/166118
<daftykins> "These are cheap, unreliable Seagate drives, made in China and with the poor quality underlined by Seagate's new 1 year warranty policy."
<diddledan> ouch
<MartijnVdS> Yay RAID
<MartijnVdS> I wonder what I have
<diddledan> what are the WD RED actually like in use?
<MartijnVdS> Crucial_CT120M500SSD1 & ST3000DM001-1CH166
<daftykins> how can you not even know
<daftykins> diddledan: dunno, first one i've bought and it's only to replace someones dead 1.5TB RAID member
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I forget the brands :)
<diddledan> WD marketing will have you believe they're the best thing since sliced bread for NAS use
<MartijnVdS> of course, that's one of the few places people still buy spinning rust for
<MartijnVdS> until the 2-3TB SSDs start to come down in price, next year or maybe the year after that
<diddledan> I still like the longevity of spinning rust
<diddledan> SSD still has a write limit whether you want to believe it or not
<diddledan> spinning rust will keep going as long as the motors are working
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/4178/10/hardwareinfo-tests-lifespan-of-samsung-ssd-840-250gb-tlc-ssd-updated-with-final-conclusion-final-update-20-6-2013
<daftykins> trust me, you can still hit SSD issues way before write longevity
<daftykins> my intel X25-M G2 160GB has been rather quirky of late
<MartijnVdS> whet kind?
<daftykins> it was stalling then BSOD'ing windows if it read a certain sector ~the 75% mark
<daftykins> i had to secure erase it to recover
<ali1234> that's pretty standard
<ali1234> HDs do the same thing
<daftykins> no, they queue the sector for reallocation
<ali1234> yes
<daftykins> and it works
<ali1234> and in the mean time, if windows attempts to read it, it will bluescreen
<ali1234> then, the only way to get the sector out of the queue and back into working order, is to force write to the block
<ali1234> ie exactly what you described
<daftykins> i've not required that with HDDs
<ali1234> i've seen this happen on about 10 harddrives so far this year
<MartijnVdS> you must see a lot of disks
<ali1234> i only see them when "it's broken"
<daftykins> yeah i see a lot of dead ones too
<ali1234> about 50% of the time, this is exactly what has happened
<daftykins> such as http://i.imgur.com/Q3DRt6A.png
<ali1234> 1 bad sector, windows bluescreens on read, force write + fsck restores the computer to 100% working
<MartijnVdS> unless that one sector is part of some important dll
<daftykins> yeah maybe it's just down to probability
<ali1234> consider that a typical windows install is like 16GB these days
<daftykins> 'cause i think this sector was in my spare area
<ali1234> and most people have about 100MB of photos and everything else is in the cloud
<daftykins> oh they definitely spit out pictures more than that
<ali1234> so yeah there is a very high chance the bad sector is somehting important
<ali1234> anyway, this behaviour is by no means limited to SSDs
<daftykins> that was never the point
<daftykins> it was kinda amusing, i'd basically not be able to interact with explorer anymore, i might be able to keep web browsing for a bit
<daftykins> but mostly UI elements were locked
<Myrtti> gosh I miss Google Reader
<daftykins> so do i :(
<daftykins> i don't like feedly
<diddledan> Myrtti, unfortunately google reader doesn't miss us
<Myrtti> I just spent 15 minutes waiting for my laptop to cope using Feedly
<daftykins> it was quite annoying because it fixed it so i couldn't just get warranty going, as i had 1 month left of warranty by that point and i was about to move house where i'd be without the use of the computer
<Myrtti> 115 unread and it took forever
<daftykins> do you have all the feeds in the world? :>
<Myrtti> daftykins: I'm a news junkie, so Guardian headlines, Google News headlines, Finnish YLE news headlines, etc...
<diddledan> daftykins, there's that many feeds?!
<ali1234> 115 feeds?
<diddledan> I figured maybe a dozen at most
<diddledan> teh worlds is teeny
<daftykins> now now diddledan, we said we'd work on the sanity ;)
<Myrtti> ali1234: unread news
<Myrtti> not feeds
<diddledan> dammit xchat autocorrecting teh to the
<ali1234> 115 *items* and your computer could not cope?
<Myrtti> 218 sources
<Myrtti> ali1234: yeah
<ali1234> i only use RSS to get my youtube subscriptions, so that i don't have to look at the youtube homepage
<Myrtti> could grief
<Myrtti> my laptop can't cope with browsing for a new laptop from the dell website
<Myrtti> must not turn laptop hulk
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> Myrtti, I think you need a newbie
<ali1234> yeah i think you have a serious problem there
<ali1234> either that or a really old laptop
<diddledan> _really_ old
<diddledan> 286?
<daftykins> 2007/8 she said
<ali1234> netbook or something
<daftykins> nope
<Myrtti> Dell Latitude D630 from 2007
<diddledan> aah, slower than the old 286 then :-p
<daftykins> this whole convo was earlier :>
<Myrtti> with 4gigs of ram
 * daftykins sends Myrtti one of the i5s he's working on
<Myrtti> I think the harddrive might be going
<daftykins> anything from the SMART info?
<Myrtti> but the display is shoddy too so an upgrade might be in order
<ali1234> that should run ubuntu ok... ish
<ali1234> as long as you don't try to use unity
<ali1234> actually even that should be ok
<ali1234> i would check the temperatures as well, it's probably full of dust
<Myrtti> unity was fine when I used it
<Myrtti> I'm on Debian now
<Myrtti> the temp is fine, under 60 now
<ali1234> heh
<ali1234> so 59.9?
<ali1234> it could still be clocking down to prevent overheating
<Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/9512199206/ <-- last week
<ali1234> well, what does smart say about the drive status?
<Myrtti> just installing smartmontools as we speak
<MartijnVdS> *after* retrieving the "offline data"
<DJones> Heh http://mashable.com/2013/08/20/too-much-internet/
<DJones> mungbean: After yesterday morning conversation, this was the decision, say hello to Jack http://dancol2012.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/cimg1229.jpg?w=640
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/85k2p3m1wyj8j85/IMG_20130820_192009.jpg
<daftykins> the excitement that is - Guernsey Milk \o/
<DJones> Sheesh, thats expensive for milk
<daftykins> yeah?
<daftykins> what would a litre be where you are?
<diddledan> we buy in pints
<daftykins> doh
<DJones> Maybe not for branded milk, I picked up a 4 pint bottle for Â£1 tonight
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> Guernsey bans import to promote local
<DJones> Only supermarket own brand, but milk is milk to me
<DJones> Jersey milk in the supermarket is Â£1/litre so comparable with your prices
<daftykins> *shakes fist at Jersey*
<ali1234> milky milky?
<daftykins> it's all about the Guernsey Gold (cow)
<mungbean> mmmm sainsburys choc mousse with 1ml of rum on top
<diddledan> don't call me a cow
<diddledan> or were you referring to ali1234 ? :-p
<mungbean> DJones: aha woof woof
<Myrtti> well then... http://paste.debian.net/27668/
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: it got too hot
<MartijnVdS> once
<MartijnVdS> In_the_past
<Myrtti> that's not surprising, this is Dell
<Myrtti> :-D
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: have you done an "extended" test? you could try that.
<Myrtti> that should be it
<daftykins> are you sure it's not just got clogged vents due to age? or do you give it a nice spring clean disassemble Myrtti ?
<daftykins> as in, contributing
<Myrtti> I did in the spring
<daftykins> each year? :D
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: you're not a smoker, are you? Smokers' PCs gunk up *bad*
<Myrtti> well I've changed the keyboard this spring, and I think last year too
<Myrtti> nope
<daftykins> hardware ECC, doesn't sound good
<Myrtti> never even tried
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: excellent ;)
<daftykins> i guess you're beyond just wanting to do a drive swap though?
<Myrtti> I could go that route, as getting a new laptop is always a hassle
<Myrtti> but the screen is really a gonner too
<daftykins> also, wow @ 80GB
<daftykins> the encryption use probably finished that sucker off
<daftykins> :>
<Myrtti> it's always been encrypted...
<Myrtti> *shrug*
<daftykins> sometimes panel swaps are cheap too?
<daftykins> yeah it would've made it work harder
<daftykins> contributing to the heat though eh
<ali1234> does full drive encryption increase fragmentation?
<daftykins> why do i feel like that question is rhetorical? :D
<mungbean> its a 5400rpm drive too
<mungbean> badblocks might tell you some stuff
<ali1234> i wouldn't be surprised if it did, but i have no idea
<mungbean> 4gb is a luxury, i have 2gb in my d630
<Myrtti> yeah I had it upgraded when I still used this at work
<Myrtti> LaTeX was a bit sluggish with massive pdf's
<ali1234> 4gb is entry level now
<Myrtti> I know
<Myrtti> ridiculous
<Myrtti> I don't know what's so funny about 80gig tho
<daftykins> though your thing is likely PC2-5300, old school
<mungbean> my work PC (i5) struggles on 4gb
<Myrtti> I use only about 16 of it
<daftykins> just an indication of age
<Myrtti> I'd probably get 80g replacement :-D
<ali1234> my / is 12gb
<daftykins> i got a Â£250 for someone the other day that was shocking to have a 320GB
<daftykins> heh i doubt you'd be able to get an 80
<Myrtti> if they sell them
<daftykins> also you want to go higher capacity for performance
<mungbean> and cheaper
<mungbean> the RAM is pricey too at that age
<ali1234> just get a new one
<daftykins> yeah i priced up Â£41 for some PC2-6400 just last night, 2 x 2GB for a very similar spec machine
<daftykins> from crucial
<mungbean> did a deal with my wife, i will read the book she just finished and she'll read mine
<daftykins> :>
<mungbean> both nonfiction thouh
<mungbean> good compromise
<daftykins> i need to carry on with Robinson Crusoe
<mungbean> di you wnat to:
<mungbean> argh
<daftykins> but my word he blabs on
<ali1234> boooooooring
<ali1234> yeah really
<mungbean> i decided life's too short to read books i dont enjoy
<daftykins> hehe
<ali1234> spoiler: nothing interesting happens
<mungbean> did someone say that horizon yesterday was rubbish?
<Myrtti> there we go: http://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/product/6668/djrfr/Kingston-SSDNow-V300-60-GB-SSD-2-5-kovalevy
<daftykins> sandforce controller based drives tend to be the less reliable kind, if you want rock-solid reliability you can't go wrong with crucial's offerings
<mungbean> man i forgot how much little babies smile
<zleap> lol
<mungbean> my 5 month old smiles and laughs most of the day when you just look at her
<zleap> not to mention dribble on people
<zleap> awww
<mungbean> happy face: http://i.imgur.com/vaPC1uo.jpg
<daftykins> :)
<mungbean> need to find the tux babygro
<daftykins> :O
<mungbean> every parent has one, right?
<zleap> dunno try cafepress
<zleap> oh u need a toy stuffed tux too
<zleap> if u don't mind em ending up soggy of course
<mungbean> i have one :)
<mungbean> also the babygro ...http://i.imgur.com/DgCXjD2.jpg
<mungbean> seems to have gone missing since though
<daftykins> babies always remind me of how weird our society is
<daftykins> how defenseless we are back then, but how far we climb by being nurtured
<mungbean> Received disconnect from 192.168.1.8: 2: Too many authentication failures
<mungbean> weird. thats on my headless debian box
<mungbean> first time logging in since boot
<daftykins> ooh-err
<mungbean> aha, it was rejecting after trying keys only
<mungbean> su - mrsmungbean and work ok
<mungbean>  ssh -o PubKeyAuthentication=no 192.168.1.8
<daftykins> D:
<mungbean> wonder why
<mungbean> works now
<Monotoko> is there a nice local mail reader in the console?
<Monotoko> so I can read and respond from the server itself?
<Myrtti> mutt
<Myrtti> alpine
 * Monotoko goes to Google those
<Monotoko> I've heard of Mutt actually, never used it though
<Monotoko> asass
<Monotoko> oops
<popey> yay, still killing my microserver nicely
<popey> top - 23:08:01 up  4:36,  1 user,  load average: 14.98, 14.07, 11.98
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-21
<ball> Is Mir a networked window system like X, or is it more of a graphics library for displays that are on the same host as the client programs?
<shauno> I don't believe it's trying to do network transparency
<ball> Ah ok.
<shauno> that's not to say it won't be there / won't be able, just that I don't believe it'll be baked-in.  but I'm really the last person to ask (I just happen to be awake)
<ball> Perhaps that's its rationale then: to be a simple local graphics library.
 * ball ponders
<ball> I think it's bed time.
<ball> Goodnight shauno
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> on a mission to get an IP based webcam wireless....
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: AlanBell can help you with that :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: or is it a wired webcam you want to *make* wireless?
<MooDoo> no want a wireless webcam
<MooDoo> the neighbour has a problem with a dog pooing on her garden everyday, I want to catch thm
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: you might want to consider one that's supported by http://www.openipcam.com/ -- but that's not actually required (as most IP webcams have a "proper"(ish) API)
<MooDoo> was looking at this - http://www.amazon.co.uk/webcam-Internet-infrated-Nightview-Wireless/dp/B003VUY5PW
<MartijnVdS> 300 kilopixel.. that's not very high-res
<MartijnVdS> 640x480
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: for only a bit more you get http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wireless-HD-IP-Security-Camera/dp/B009OX0BTY
<MooDoo> ooo even better
<MooDoo> AlanBell: what camera do you use for your chickens?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
 * DJones finds a 3rd party website using photos from his own website without authorisation, actually copies of the photo's rather than just linking to the original photo
<MooDoo> DJones: get onto them quickly and demand they remove them or pay you for their use.
<DJones> POssibly may do that, but probably not, website looks ok and if anything would be free advertising
<MooDoo> DJones: are you credited?
<DJones> Nope, thats one thing I may ask for
<MooDoo> DJones: yeah do it, if they credit you then fair enough :D
<DJones> Or more accurately, may ask them to credit the original professional photographer
<neetz_> Hey , I reinstalled windows 7 and Ubuntu 12.04 on my system 2 days back. Both OS were working fine . Yesterday I  Installed Nvidia Graphic card on windows 7  and I switched to ubuntu after rebooting it , ubuntu did not boot ( it says nouvea i2wc faill .... ). I have installed ubuntu on a seperate partition
<neetz_> there ?
<popey> neetz_: interesting
<popey> you could install the nvidia driver on your ubuntu system
<popey> !nvidia
<lubotu3> For Ati/NVidia/Matrox video cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VideoDriverHowto
<MooDoo> I can't see why if you install the drivers on windows it would affect ubuntu?
<popey> i can â»
<neetz_> but its not booting only
<popey> can you boot to single user recovery mode?
<MooDoo> popey: really?  known issue?
<popey> i have seen similar
<neetz_> is my nvidea driver installation reflected in bios
<popey> neetz_: can you boot to recovery mode?
<neetz_> yea and i get a series of options
<neetz_> what next
<popey> can you enable network, i think thats one of the options?
<neetz_> thats there , but i dont have a wifi  network here
<popey> plug a cable in?
<neetz_> ok fine , i'll go to college and have a lan plugged in , .. what next ?
<neetz_> after entering enable networking
<popey> well, there's a few things I'd do
<popey> first I'd be interested in knowing why it failed
<popey> so I'd want to look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log for example
<neetz_> ok how do i find if its failed and stuff like that
<popey> that log will tell you why x failed to start
<neetz_> whats the exact command ?
<popey> the other possible "quick fix" is to install the binary nvidia driver, assuming it isn't already installed
<popey> can you get online from college and come back and we can walk you through it?
<popey> or is that not easy?>
<neetz_> its not easy , we dont have college today and idk how to come here through terminal and stuff
<popey> gotcha
<neetz_> can you me your emailid , so that i can contact you ?
<popey> so probably easier to reboot into ubuntu, get the exact error message and post it to http://askubuntu.com/
<DJones> ok, its officially time to remove the register from browser bookmarks having just read the Australian fork related story
<neetz_> @popey , have a look at this http://askubuntu.com/questions/221276/ubuntu-12-10-nvidia-driver-problems
<neetz_> does it work on mine if i follow
<popey> maybe /me looks
<popey> neetz_: what model of machine do you have?
<popey> neetz_: and what version of ubuntu?
<neetz_> dell n5110
<neetz_> and ubuntu 12.04
<neetz_> @popey , i had this issue 2 weeks back when i had ubuntu 12.10 also , 3 days back i reinstalled my windows and ubuntu ..
<ali1234> so it has optimus graphics?
<neetz_> yes
<popey> bummer
<ali1234> so disable the nvidia card in the bios settings, boot ubuntu, install the new optimus capable driver, then reenable it
<neetz_> popey what?
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/202644/how-to-install-nvidia-optimus-driver-on-ubuntu-12-10
<neetz_> idont think there's an option in the bios , coz i asked dell people today , they said they can only control the devices on motherboard
<neetz_> sudo apt-get purge nvidia* does this require internet ?
<popey> no
<neetz_> ok @popey i wll try this http://askubuntu.com/questions/221276/ubuntu-12-10-nvidia-driver-problems
<neetz_> and which mode do i enter first
<isleofmandan> Ubuntu updates to 13.04 are giving me kernel panic on boot. Sadly, grub doesn't seem to have kept previous kernel. What are my options?
<popey> isleofmandan: it keeps your old kernel in an option immediately below the most recent one
<isleofmandan> It's not there. Only one kernel is listed, (and again with a 'recovery' option)
<popey> well that's odd
<popey> whats the next option below that?
<isleofmandan> popey: nothing. Only two entries listed
<popey> this your xps?
<isleofmandan> luckily not :)
<isleofmandan> Acer revo
<popey> and this is a real ubuntu 13.04 install?
<popey> not mint or some other crap?
<isleofmandan> Yes, genuine 13.04
<popey> hmmm
<popey> any usb devices attached you can unplug and boot?
<isleofmandan> Machine hasn't been used for a week or so. I booted it, and did sudo apt-get update, sudo apt-get upgrade
<isleofmandan> only keyboard and mouse are attached
<popey> hmm
<popey> can you boot to recovery
<popey> (you should dist-upgrade, not upgrade)
 * isleofmandan wishes he'd not done full disk encryption now...
<isleofmandan> popey: I never knew that. So apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade
<popey> yes
<isleofmandan> I can boot to recovery so far... but then panic
<popey> but still, you shouldnt get a panic
<popey> how odd
<isleofmandan> It's pretty rare for updates to totally bork my machine too. Hopefully just me and nobody else. I couldn't see any new bugs filed anyway
<popey> any clues about the panic?
<isleofmandan> Oh now this is weird. Powered off at mains socket, and now can get into recovery...
<popey> can you take a photo or video of it?
<popey> ooh
<isleofmandan> new territory... I assume 'run in failsafe graphic mode' is best thing to try?
<popey> isleofmandan: well, as recovery works. try booting normally
<isleofmandan> ok
<isleofmandan> a few [fail] whizz by.... but I have a mouse cursor now...
<isleofmandan> ...and lightdm
<isleofmandan> and desktop :)
<isleofmandan> so I should apt-get dist-upgrade now?
<popey> yes
<popey> so, not an ubuntu problem \o/
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> something got wedged, and a full reboot fixed it, interesting
<ali1234> i see that sometimes
<isleofmandan> So what does 'update' do, that 'dist-upgrade' doesn't?
<ali1234> i think it is something to do with USB
<ali1234> sometimes the machine boots up with no working USB at all
<isleofmandan> I reckon Nvidia card is to blame. I saw a message about it 'tainiting' kernel at some point
<ali1234> it only happens on reboot, which i only do once a month anyway
<ali1234> turning it off fixes it
<isleofmandan> ali1234: And on my machine, I had to physically pull power rather than just turn it off, it seems
<ali1234> that's not unusual
<ali1234> USB devices stay powered when the machine is in sleep states
<ali1234> which is what happens unless you pull the power
<isleofmandan> dist-upgrade is pulling in some kernel sounding bits, so I'm hopeful it'll work next boot....
<isleofmandan> ali1234: makes sense
<ali1234> so yeah i'm convinced there's a recent bug in linux USB which isn't initializing the USB chipset properly on warm reboot
<ali1234> to go along with the bug that makes it eat the CPU on large transfers
<ali1234> and gadgetfs being broken
<ali1234> oh and the IRQ thing
<ali1234> possibly these are all related
<ali1234> but linux USB has really gone downhill recently
<popey> isleofmandan: upgrade will upgrade the packages you currently have installed
<popey> but it will _not_ pull in any new packages that those packages require
<popey> dist-upgrade will
<isleofmandan> popey: Thanks. I'll remember to use dist-upgrade from now on then.
<popey> so if you are paranoid about new stuff appearing on your machine, you upgrade, because you will only ever get updates to stuff you already have
<popey> my revo (behind the telly) is set to auto update
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<popey> morning davmor2
<isleofmandan> popey: I suppose it means I have to trust the boffins not to push out new dodgy packages though ;)
<isleofmandan> morning davmor2 and bigcalm
<davmor2> hey bigcalm going for steak tonight?
<bigcalm> davmor2: who knows? :)
<Monotoko> don't suppose anyone knows how I postmap everything in main.cf in order?
 * isleofmandan reboots...
<bigcalm> davmor2: I actually want pizza
<davmor2> bigcalm: You'll be lucky :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: very, considering that the pub doesn't serve it
<isleofmandan> popey: All good now. Thanks. Next time you're in the IoM, I'll buy you a beer or two. That's two machines you've fixed for me.
<popey> heh, yay
<lornajane> hurrah, now I am crashing pitivi and openshot simultaneously.  Seriously, I just want to glue a handful of video clips together and I've been going on this for days so far
<popey> yeah, crap isnt it?
<bigcalm> I need to stop reading the mailing list. It's like reading youtube comments sometimes
<popey> kdenlive is apparently good
<popey> haha bigcalm â»
<DJones> bigcalm: I just thought all the Sounder list users had moved to the uk list
<lornajane> popey: aptitude produces output longer than my terminal scrollback when I ask it to install kdenlive, so I'm trying to avoid that
<popey> hah
<popey> however the openshot devs are quite friendly
<popey> and i have found i can stop openshot crashing by deleting ~/.openshot before opening it
<lornajane> well I managed to get one clip into it and export it as video.  But VLC is playing it back by jumping 5 seconds at a time as it goes along so I don't think this has quite worked
<lornajane> pitivi looks promising, and sometimes can output a video file.  Just not always
<popey> delightful
<popey> Linux Video Editors in "Still crap in 2013" non-shocker.
<jussi> lornajane: have you tried the "professional" alternative?
<lornajane> jussi: what's that?
<jussi> ie. http://www.lwks.com/
<popey> good luck with taht
<popey> it barely supports any codecs on linux
<lornajane> I'll just have to do this all in one take with loads of alt-tab showing I think
<jussi> ahh, Ive not used it, just had people say try it.
<mungbean> i had success with openshot and a k* one
<mungbean> lornajane: latest openshot version?
<lornajane> Kazam used to be able to capture one monitor, so I just did that and flipped about between desktops, but the "upgraded" version can't do that
<lornajane> mungbean: whatever apt gave me, I'm on 13.04
<jussi> lornajane: also, have you tried the vlc editor? (one sec, let me look it up)
<jussi> http://www.videolan.org/vlmc/
<lornajane> "stable downloads are not available"
<jussi> oh wait, seems its not quite ready for public
<jussi> yeah
<lornajane> I'm not sure that would make it worse than the alternatives though, from the very frustrating issues I've had so far
<lornajane> openshot seems to be producing nonsense, I don't think it's VLC's playback that's the problem.
<lornajane> and I really don't know anything about video codecs, I just want to record my screen and then glue together some clips, maybe trim them, and play it back
<mungbean> does youtube let you do that?
<mungbean> post upload editing.
<lornajane> I'm just looking for some online tools, when I typed my requirements, they didn't seem complicated
<bigcalm> lornajane: just to distract you for a moment. Do you know what the 3 columns of numbers mean when one uses gearadmin --status?
<bigcalm> Buggered if I can find mention of the output of that command
<lornajane> bigcalm: sorry, no, I don't use it
<bigcalm> lornajane: ho hum. Thought you were likely to do so due to your blog posts on gearman. No worries :)
<lornajane> bigcalm: usually I just throw things in it and expect them to come out again - persistent storage lets me see what's in there ... I don't really administer it, just run it under supervisord and expect them to work it out between themselves
<bigcalm> lornajane: just as I have been using it all
<bigcalm> lornajane: but something's gone weird in production that I think might be a back-log of commands
<lornajane> bigcalm: are you using persistent storage?  Is that why you think there's a backlog?
<bigcalm> lornajane: yep, via mysql
<lornajane> can you tell if a worker script has attempted to process the job, but failed?
<bigcalm> I've never looked in the table to find out :) I'll do so now
<bigcalm> Locally I use sqlite3 as it's available by default
<bigcalm> Took a lot of messing around to get mysql support working on test and production
<neetz> @popey , tried but still no booting dude
<popey> bummer
<ali1234> i had success with blender video editing recently
<lornajane> ali1234: do you think that might be complicated for a beginner though?
<ali1234> sure
 * lornajane is currently wrestling the youtube editor
<ali1234> video editing is always going to be though
<popey> i still think kdenlive is worth a punt
<ali1234> it's really not
<popey> you can always sudo aptitude autoremove kdenlive   after
<lornajane> popey: I was freaked out by the huge amount of required/clashing/updating packages that apt showed me
<popey> its kde â»
<bigcalm> lornajane: there well over 2000 jobs in the queue table. I wish I could empty the jobs
<ali1234> try blender, it's not that hard
<lornajane> I actually think I should find out how to combine video clips from commandline :)
<lornajane> if I was smarter about capture, I really only need to glue
<lornajane> I need pandoc for video!
<ali1234> it's called ffmpeg
<MartijnVdS> it's called avconv :)
 * lornajane makes a list
<neetz> not bummer , deleting some files
<ali1234> don't bother with avconv, it's just a fork of ffmpeg with more bugs
<lornajane> ffmpeg does say I should use avconv, weirdly
<ali1234> yes, the debian packagers inserted that message because they prefer avconv
<MartijnVdS> lornajane: yeah, avconv is the new command-line tool for the same libraries as ffmpeg uses.. it's almost the same command-line too
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: did they? Because upstream seems to prefer avconv too
<ali1234> upstream?
<ali1234> you mean libav?
<ali1234> which is also a fork of ffmpeg?
<ali1234> obviously they prefer their own fork
<MartijnVdS> ah.. it's a schism within the ffmpeg community: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9477115/who-can-tell-me-the-difference-and-relation-between-ffmpeg-libav-and-avconv
<ali1234> yes, on ubuntu you need to build ffmpeg manually, because ffmpeg package is just a wrapper around avconv
<lornajane> they seem like a muchness, at least to this beginner
<ali1234> yeah. ffmpeg supports more codecs
<ali1234> what are you actually tryng to do anyway?
<lornajane> a short screencast
<lornajane> kazam can capture an individual window, so I have bits of video captured from each of the windows that I wanted to show
<ali1234> ok well blender absolutely supports the mp4 output from kazam
<ali1234> you will have a problem if all the clips are different size though
<ali1234> that will be hard to fix
<ali1234> tbh that's probably why you keep getting crashes and nonsense
<lornajane> they are all the same size, I've resized my second monitor to 800x600, full-screened each window, and asked kazam to capture that
<lornajane> I was capturing in webm because that's what the pitivi channel recommended yesterday but it's not a big deal to recapture - getting the toolchain working is always the worst bit
<davmor2> lornajane: if you have a bunch of videos of the same format that you just want to put together just do "cat vid1.ogv vid2.ogv vid3.ogv > completevid.ogv"  note no ability to edit but you can at least piece them together that way
<ali1234> yeah and then watch as it spectacularly fails to play in about 50% of players
<lornajane> there seem to be so many things that could go wrong here that I probably should know but don't :(
<ali1234> i suspect blender will work with ogg as it uses ffmpeg
<MartijnVdS> ffmpeg, or libav? :P
<davmor2> ali1234: works for me when it is the same format/refresh and frame rate it is when it is different that it breaks horrendously :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I think you have to set the framerate of the video *before* importing
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: ffmpeg if you download it from blender.org
<MartijnVdS> (in blender)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ah.. probably
<ali1234> and they don't accept bug reports on anything else
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: sorry I was talking about just cating them together :0
<davmor2> :)
<ali1234> the only thing i can't figure out in blender is how you export the final sequence :S
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: there are HOWTOs for all of that on Youtube
<ali1234> i know
<ali1234> i'm trying to figure it out without reading any documentation though
<bigcalm> lornajane: do gearman jobs have to return true?
<lornajane> bigcalm: that's a good question.  I'd guess so, let me have a look
<bigcalm> I have some returning an ID, which would be seen as a true if testing is loose
<lornajane> hmmm, it's not obvious, but my worker does if things go well
<bigcalm> If things go wrong, I'm returning null. Maybe I'll just return true instead
<bigcalm> No, I'm returning false if things go wrong
<bigcalm> Ah well
<davmor2> bigcalm: I read that as "Do german jobs have to return true"  I was thinking I know they are efficient but that is a little harsh :D
<Monotoko> #postfix are as much help as a chocolate fireguard
<bigcalm> davmor2: googling for information on gearman often tries to correct one with german
 * MooDoo is looking into IP based wireless webcams :S
<davmor2> MooDoo: is this for the random dog nextdoor?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yup.
<davmor2> MooDoo: speak to AlanBell popey and czajkowski I'm sure they can recommend some for you :)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: popey czajkowski hello all, I'm after a wireless IP based webcam, do you have any recommendations :)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: this is the one that a few of us own: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wireless-camera-Pan-Tilt-2-ways/dp/B00432J56G/
<bigcalm> Though I still haven't used mine :S
<MooDoo> bigcalm: that looks grand, thanks :D
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00432J56G/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 is the one I have
<bigcalm> Jinx
<MooDoo> yeah thanks, looks just the ticket.
<MooDoo> done thanks all
<MooDoo> popey: I've ordered a 2.1mm extention cable with it, but just read a review saying it's not actually 2.1mm, is this right?
<davmor2> great thinking there bigcalm now popey can't say anything till someone says his name, so you get to deal with all of his meetings for him, all the help he gives out on all the channels he is on and fill in the google docs we need to update daily :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: what?
<davmor2> bigcalm: you Jinxed him
<bigcalm> Oh. Snap would have been a better word
<davmor2> bigcalm: :D
<popey> MooDoo: no idea
<MooDoo> popey: ok thanks
<daftykins> another episode of extreme support just occurred, 5 mile ride and back to swap a dead disk in a RAID setup ^_^
<bigcalm> lornajane: I changed all of my workers to return a true-ish value and the backlog appears to be reducing :D
<bigcalm> Wii fit likes me today. 2lb down on last week's weigh-in
<bigcalm> Will make up for it tonight
<bigcalm> Large onion rings is a good place to start
<bigcalm> Oh, maybe I'll have a large mixed grill ;)
<daftykins> how does it weigh you 0o
<bigcalm> daftykins: how does Wii Fit weigh me?
<daftykins> ja
<bigcalm> Via the balance board
<daftykins> oh ok, comes with gadgets
<bigcalm> Yus
<lornajane> bigcalm: that's good news (about the backlog, although the onion rings sound like good news too)
<bigcalm> Well, Wii Fit comes with the balance board. The board is then useable with other games
<bigcalm> lornajane: :D
<bigcalm> Can I cope with the 6.5 hours until the LUG?
<popey> i should move the wii and balance board to the den
<bigcalm> popey: would it get used more in there?
<popey> yeah
<bigcalm> Then it would be a good move ;)
<lornajane> this is making me realise how long it is since I used mine - not since I got the wii U I don't think
<bigcalm> Humm, is the Wii U worth getting?
<daftykins> heh, i'm amazed they sell
<bigcalm> ASDA have stopped selling them in some stores I think
<popey> hm, current telly in den only has one scart
<popey> might have to dig out the scart multiplexer thing
<bigcalm> popey: does it have RGB component phono sockets?
<bigcalm> That's how I have mine hooked up
<popey> nope, vga, dvi, hdmi only
<popey> er
<popey> nope
<popey> vga, hdmi, scart only
<lornajane> I like the wii U, but not too many games are really made for it yet.  The super mario world has been huge fun
<popey> I might dig out my other old consoles too
<popey> :D
<lornajane> currently we're playing pikmin, that's fun too, I get to read the map and shout intructions while Kevin actually has to fight monsters and things
<bigcalm> lornajane: I'm a sucker for Zelda games. It's why I bought a DS and the Wii :S
<lornajane> bigcalm: yep, that's my main motivator also
<bigcalm> Just been informed that lunch is ready. I do like Hayley being at home recently :D
<lornajane> we do have a PS3 but I'm definitely a nintendo fan, even though I came to gaming rather later in life
 * bigcalm toddles off
<MartijnVdS> I don't like Nintendo. Their tech is too far behind the curve, and their games too childish. Imho.
<lornajane> depends what you're into I imagine - I'm endlessly enchanted by childish so it works really well for me
<mungbean> wii balance board is quite fun , but the ps/xbox of this world are a league above
<mungbean> there's a snowboarding game for it which is quite fun
<daftykins> just under 4 weeks for GTA V now
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<davmor2> mungbean: what nitendo got right was fun with their games, what xbox and PS got right was pretty and huge games, I remember the day when Nitendo was the place to go for huge rpg style games like final fantasy etc but now there are bigger games on android :)
<daftykins> Nintendo seemed to innovate with the hardware, but they just don't seem to really know what to do for software
<daftykins> "let's make another Mario!"
<ali1234> as opposed to... everyone else?
<ali1234> "let's make another fifa!" "let's make another CoD!"
<daftykins> yeah but that's not the full picture for those platforms
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Flower, Journey, Heavy Rain, ...
<daftykins> you're not even attempting to follow.
<ali1234> yeah because everyone knows that nintendo consoles only have one mario game and one zelda game, rght?
<MartijnVdS> Nintendo just spams 20000 Mario games per console generation and hopes one or two stick
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: CoD, Fifa exist for Nintendo systems as well
<MartijnVdS> maybe not CoD
<MartijnVdS> but fifa for sure.
<directhex> sooooooo.......
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG2M4ttzBnY
<MartijnVdS> !
<directhex> nintendo.
<directhex> sweet, silly nintendo
<daftykins> ^_^
<ali1234> did it not ever occur to anyone to like, write numbers on the punch cards, so they would know what order they go in?
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i was pondering this
<directhex> nintendo are, for want of a better explanation, experts in crafting the most beautiful sculptures they can, from the walls of their rut.
<ali1234> like after the third or fourth time you dropped a stack of them
<directhex> they didn't understand the internet with the gamecube, they didn't understand the internet with the DS, they didn't understand the internet with the Wii, and they don't understand the internet with the Wii U or 3DS
<ali1234> "the internet" as far as consoles goes, is a load of 12 year old kids swearing at you... so there's that
<directhex> to a degree they get away with it, because their MO for a long time now has been very much what japanese developers do - endless incremental refinement of existing formulae
<ali1234> it's very ironic that people say nintendo games are childish... when basically children would rather play shootan games and call each other names
<directhex> yes, that's true
<directhex> nintendo's games are the pinnacle of their respective genres, but they're not really a place for innovation
<daftykins> maybe that's why they keep coming up with fancy new controllers so it feels new
<directhex> the wii introduced millions of non-gamers to games, which made the wii seem an appealing development target for developers, despite the crummy spec. however, those non-gamers didn'
<directhex> didn't actually buy any games, they just racked up ten thousand hours of wii sports
<mungbean> i think they bought animal corssing and wii party etc
<mungbean> judging by the games that come up for sale on the chavvy local buy and sell groups on facebook
<directhex> the attach rate on wii is terrible
<daftykins> :>
<mungbean> i bought bta3 and spent 100s of hours on that
<directhex> so lots of developers lost money by making wii games nobody bought
<directhex> so now they're scared of publishing on nintendo platforms
<directhex> to a degree the same happened with the gamecube - nintendo games sold, third party didn't
<directhex> and even the n64, to a lesser degree
<ali1234> the n64 was because of the expense of cartidges wasn't it?
<mungbean> is the sims on android full of paid DLC?
<directhex> the wii u..... they're trying to sell them to wii owners, but have cocked up the marketing *so badly* that nobody's bought one, and no third party publishers want to waste time on a console with no users
<ali1234> i don't even know what a wii u is
<ali1234> is it a controller?
<ali1234> is it a tablet?
<mungbean> its like a wii with a tablet handheld controller
<directhex> if they'd named it "wii 2", that would have cleared up *so much*
<ali1234> i don't even know what it looks like
<mungbean> i am a wii owner
<popey> like a fat wii
<mungbean> but have no interest in getting a new console for sequels of games i already got bored of
<lornajane> nintendo release new consoles in December, and I also have a birthday then.  So if there's a new nintendo platform, I usually own it pretty quickly
<directhex> it's a HD-capable games console, with lots more RAM than the other HD-capable games consoles
<mungbean> i still play my wii though
<mungbean> because i have a 3yr old son
<ali1234> i will never get bored of zelda games as long as they stick to the OoT formula
<ali1234> i got round to playing psychonauts recently, it's really good
<directhex> see, zelda games haven't really improved over time
<ali1234> how do you mean?
<ali1234> i didn't like the newer ones as much... because they put in quicktime events and stuff
<directhex> i mean the best "zelda game" i played in the last decade was okami on ps2.
<bigcalm> :D
<directhex> although i am excited for wind waker HD
<ali1234> the best zelda game is OoT master quest
<bigcalm> Okami was great
<ali1234> but it's hard to tell if the games are getting worse, or if i just know them too well
<bigcalm> I've completed Fez to 209.4%. A little confused. Is there anything to do once one gets 3d vision?
<directhex> no idea, i'm waiting for the linux port
<bigcalm> git status ./
<bigcalm> Humm :S
<BigRedS> Anyone know a good place to get a Cisco power supply? Ideally by the end of the week...
<diddledan> <troll> BigRedS: cisco? </troll> *ducks*
<diddledan> I always find the manufacturer is a good place to get their gear
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> do cisco units have special power supplies anyway? I figured they'd use IEC C13 plugs
<BigRedS> diddledan: it's not a rackmounted one, sounds like a transformer-on-a-plug sort of affair
<diddledan> bah
<BigRedS> (I've been asked by someone else)
<BigRedS> I guess maplins would do something...
<diddledan> yeah, maplin is God-of-all-the-electrical-things
<bigcalm> BigRedS: a PSU for a cisco branded retail router?
<BigRedS> it's a srw208p apparently, not sure how retail it is
<diddledan> bigcalm, wouldn't that be linksys?
<BigRedS> I try to stay away from networking :)
<bigcalm> diddledan: yes, but still has the word "cisco" on the device. Confuses people
<bigcalm> BigRedS: oh, that sort of switch
<BigRedS> yeah
<bigcalm> BigRedS: looking at the back of one, it looks like it needs 4.5VDC at 2.5A
<bigcalm> Fuzzy image though
<diddledan> this suggests 48V?! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SRW208P-Replacement-adapter-POE-Power-Supply-48V-2-5-Amp-AS-120P-48-AS120P48P1M-/360481847228
<MartijnVdS> Real PoE is 48V, but lots of PoE isn't real PoE
<bigcalm> I did say it was a fuzzy image :)
<MartijnVdS> and they just put 5V or whatever on the wire
<MartijnVdS> ask AlanBell :)
<diddledan> ello MartijnVdS
<bigcalm> This page has an image of the PSU: http://www.e3050.com/ItemDesc/Cisco_SRW208P_8-port_10_100_Switch_Switches_Egypt--SRW208P-K9-EU.aspx
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: If it's Cisco, it's probably real PoE (802.3af)
 * bigcalm shrugs
<shauno> there's a lot of cisco stuff that isn't 'real' PoE  (eg, pre-standard)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: sure, but stuff that's <5 years old will be fine
<BigRedS> Apparently the person who needs it has the broken one!
<BigRedS> that took a while to find out...
<bigcalm> Considering the the switch is eol, you might struggle to get a psu directly from cisco
<diddledan> I think it would have been difficult before it was eol, too :-)
<diddledan> certainly they don't seem to be commonplace
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, probably
<diddledan> BigRedS, quote for replacement with a gigabit equivalent?
<bigcalm> Git commit log of a single word: GAH
<bigcalm> I am amused
<MooDoo> bigcalm: fixed?  or done?
<bigcalm> ?
<lornajane> I assume the word is "GAH"
<bigcalm> Yes
<MooDoo> ah get ya lol though you were just saying GAH!
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> s/thought
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> lol
<MartijnVdS> usually means "Forgot to commit this file in the previous commit"
<MooDoo> it's been a long day diddledan  :)
<diddledan> I like leaving messages in gitlog for colleagues to notice and then work out that they never read the commitlog
<bigcalm> I wonder when the guy selling the Galaxy Nexus will get around to responding to my question. Not used to such delays
<daftykins> the samsung one? is that ebay?
<bigcalm> daftykins: Amazon 2nd hand
<davmor2> MooDoo: lets look at some of these points shall we, can't use English, can't think straight, distracted more than normal by the shiny, you're either tired or 2 ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: tired and other things on my mind
<bigcalm> I have a nice steak on my mind
<bigcalm> But as I don't know if I'll get one tonight, I will probably go for something else
<diddledan> I tried having a nice steak on my mind, but it fell off
<davmor2> MooDoo: let me guess the shiny is on your mind you wantzz it you neeeeedddzzzz it the shiny
<MooDoo> davmor2: money, new job, christmas rotas etc etc
<diddledan> ... a human head really isn't the best place to store meat
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: ...
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: the inside, or the outside?
<diddledan> on top
<shauno> reminds me, google fried-brain sandwich.  and don't look at me funny :)
 * daftykins glances at shauno with a raised eyebrow
<lornajane> just out of interest, what does "make distclean" do?  I've not seen it before
<MooDoo> http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/automake.html#Clean does this help lornajane ?
<lornajane> MooDoo: yes, thanks.  Not sure why it's important to be cleaner today than normal but okay :)
<MooDoo> :)
<shauno> daftykins: sorry, was more for dan .. I trust most others to decide for themselves :)
<daftykins> i just didn't know what you meant :)
<diddledan> shauno, you sick sick man
<diddledan> thankfully it's only calves' brains and not human
<mungbean> bradley manning got 35 yrs in prison :-|
<diddledan> ouch
<mungbean> snowden would get 350
<mungbean> with a pole up with butt
<daftykins> O_O
<MooDoo> if he gets caught
<diddledan> he'll just get an umbrella stabbed into his shin as he's walking along in moscow and a few days later be dead from poisoning that nobody knows how he contracted it
<mungbean> just like inspector clouseau
<mungbean> with the daggers coming out of her boobs
<mungbean> and the dagger in shoe trick
<mungbean> i love that scene
<diddledan> spikey boobs?
<mungbean> yeah
<diddledan> madonna?
<mungbean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQsS6jg5_pU
<shauno> minus the anatomy, isn't that how they got litvinenko?  it's strange when it sounds absurd, but reminds me of the news
<popey> he was poisoned in a sushi bar i thought
<popey> Yo! Sushi!
<mungbean> spikey boobs 1:59
<diddledan> is it my system or is the audio wonky on that video?
<mungbean> i'm at work, sound down, i'm making the sounds
<mungbean> count about 10 ppl try to killl him in 5 mins
<jpds> popey: There's nothing quite as bad as bad uni.
<diddledan> aah yes, I remember the spikey boobs now
<mungbean> :D
<mungbean> heard about the website selling food just past its sell by date?
<daftykins> nope :o
<mungbean> 24 snickers for Â£1 special offer
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> ooh what'a gamble
<mungbean> brannigans crisps BBE 31/8/13
<mungbean> 10 packs for Â£1
<mungbean> scoff them quick
<diddledan> brannigans are awesome
<mungbean> http://www.approvedfood.co.uk/
<mungbean> if i was skint and single i would def do this
<bigcalm> I want a snickers now
<popey> thats an excellent idea
<popey> I frequently eat food way beyond it's BBE
<mungbean> 24 Snickers Crunchers for Â£1 (usually Â£6.25 on Approved Food or Â£14 elsewhere, best before 11 Aug 2013). Simply enter the code snickersoffer at the checkout
<mungbean> i ate some walkers crinkles from early july the other day
<DJones> snickers are always past their sell by date, its one of those 'food' items that should have been banned at inception as dangerous & unhealthy
<mungbean> :-|
<popey> outrage!
<DJones> Nah, they have minimal chocolate quota's, minimal taste quota's, pretty much cardboard in tar taste :)
<DJones> Biggest problem is the distinct lack of meat :)
 * bigcalm offers up some beef jerky
<DJones> Yum
<DJones> !yum
<lubotu3> Uh, don't you mean !apt ?
<DJones> :)
<bigcalm> This stuff should be taken off me
<mungbean> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2398367/Polo-mint-payout-Nestle-pays-10-schoolboy-green-Polo-17-years-ago.html
<mungbean> such cheap PR
<mungbean> Â£10 and a free article int eh failyfail
<DJones> Hmmh, daily snail, no surprise they post something that looks so inflammatory despite the people affected being quite happy with the result
<brobostigon> dailyfail*
<daftykins> :D
<mungbean> however on the next page, polos give you cancer
<daftykins> mungbean: XD the green ones were wanted because they were the radioactive ones
<brobostigon> so much non-news thats made up to be be worthwhile news.
<mungbean> its summer
<mungbean> so even worse
<mungbean> they just trawl reddit etc for anything
<DJones> I wonder how they managed to report that, did they run out of Diana stories?
<daftykins> :'(
 * brobostigon hands out copies of private eye. :)
 * DJones replaces brobostigon's private eye with copies of viz
<brobostigon> :(
<popey> Its the express that prints diana stories, not usually the mail
<DJones> Pretty much the same target audieance
<mungbean> satire has been rubbish since about 1750
<DJones> to brobostigon
<brobostigon> DJones: fair point, yes.
<brobostigon> well, viz was/is a comic.
<DJones> I always find the mail is diana centric as well, can't comment on the express
<daftykins> i've not encountered private eye, it's the one Ian Hislop of HIGNFY is to do with yeah?
<DJones> Private eye isn't a comic?
<daftykins> what actually does it cover?
<mungbean> boring political satire
<brobostigon> DJones: nope, it is not.
<popey> i used to buy it every week when i worked in london
<brobostigon> daftykins: yes, ian hislop is editor of it.
<popey> well, every other week â»
<brobostigon> :)
<DJones> Last time I bought private eye, I found it hard to distinguish between that and the beano
<popey> my mother in law bought a subscription to it
<popey> blimey
<popey> i enjoy it quite a bit
 * DJones nominates popey's mother-in-law for a CBE
<brobostigon> i enjoy it still,
<popey> she bought it for my birthday present
<popey> â»
<brobostigon> :)
 * DJones kicks popey for to much info, TOO LATE
<mungbean> i always wonders who actually buys newpapers anymore
<brobostigon> ian hislop might argue, people actually do some serious journalism in private eye, unlike a comic.
<DJones> Oh wow, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-23780810 Bovril shots found during excavation of an early 1800's site
<daftykins> cor
<popey> nice promotion for bovril there
<popey> which has been losing market share to marmite for years â»
<popey> although my mum still drinks it
 * daftykins hasn't ever encountered it
<popey> i used to have bovril sarnies as a kid
<popey> not bought it in ~10 years or more
<DJones> My dad will drink bovril at rugby matches, but can't stand marmite
<DJones> I prefer vegemite
<bigcalm> Two very different things
<daftykins> so people knock back those little funny jars? seems weird
<bigcalm> I still drink bovril
<dwatkins> neat?
<dwatkins> Just thinking about it makes me cough (as does anything salty)
<bigcalm> Tim: I'll have a pint of the black stuff
<bigcalm> Mike: you can't drink a pint of Bovril
<dwatkins> Guinness?
<mungbean> bovril is northern thing
<mungbean> daftykins: i think they put a blobinto hot water
<mungbean> make a sort of grravy
<bigcalm> Now I fancy some miso soup
<daftykins> heh
<mungbean> peasant food
 * bigcalm goes to make miso soup
<diddledan> don't ever go on "the milk diet". it's evil!
<diddledan> two weeks of nothing but milk, jelly and oxo
<diddledan> I wanted to kill someone after that
<mungbean> does jelly and ice cream count?
<diddledan> and now. I hate milk. I hate jelly. and I hate oxo.
<diddledan> mungbean, no
<mungbean> mm jelly
<diddledan> mungbean, the jelly needs to be sugar free
<davmor2> diddledan: did you lose weight though ?
<dwatkins> I just stopped eating bread, rice and chips, lost 15 kg.
<mungbean> thats 1/4 my body weight
<dwatkins> I started at 104kg.
<diddledan> davmor2, I did, but I don't know whether that was the goal. I had to do it prior to having my gallbladder removed
<mungbean> guys, do you think this is H&S risk: http://imgur.com/a/NlSfi
<mungbean> and which one shall i jump under
 * bigcalm has miso soup!
<bigcalm> And I'm suddenly whisked back to Japan, 2004
<mungbean> health and safety doesn't seem to require corridors are clear of hazards :-|
<mungbean> opinions?
<dwatkins> check the fire regulations
<dwatkins> check with the insurance company
<dwatkins> check with HR
<mungbean> do you think its unsafe?
<dwatkins> then move it anyway, because it'll probably get damaged otherwise
<mungbean> 7ft high metal objects
<mungbean> ready to fall
<dwatkins> It's a case of the level of risk, it's not a binary property.
<mungbean> recelying bin full of paper
<dwatkins> There are too many factors to just give it a number.
<mungbean> bin = massive wheely bin
<dwatkins> e.g. if it's a corridor no-one ever goes down, the risk is reduced
<mungbean> we work there
<popey> hehe, public sector...
<dwatkins> then it's a higher risk of you tripping up, I'd move it all to a storage room
<mungbean> someone ticked a box so its fine
<dwatkins> someone ticked a box so they could have the box ticked
<ali1234> mungbean: i'm not sure where to start
<mungbean> its bad though right?
<mungbean> not just my impressino
<ali1234> the chemical haze?
<mungbean> thats my phone
<mungbean> but i smelt burning
<ali1234> the pile of what appears to be medical waste?
<mungbean> lab coats
<ali1234> the tub of who-knows-what chemicals jammed inside some kind of industrial machinery?
<mungbean> yeah lol
<mungbean> by the way this is next to open door that *anyone* could walk into off the street
<dwatkins> I'd start by imagining a toddler got loose in that corridor.
<mungbean> unmontiored
<mungbean> my son
<mungbean> the other day
<dwatkins> there you go, then
<ali1234> it looks like somehting out of half-life
<ali1234> i want to smash everything with crowbar
 * dwatkins wonders if there's a crowbar
<popey> haha
<diddledan> my clients: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2KLyBapfTc
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> :)
<popey> heh
<daftykins> woohoo the 1.5TB dead drive in a 4 disk RAID 5 i replaced just finished rebuilding
<daftykins> just noticed that my gmail inbox reads 5:30 but inside the email it reads 6:30 O_O
<popey> ooh, that reminds me...
<popey> btrfs scrub worked fine \o/
<daftykins> popey: did you see the message about your disks might be rebranded Seagates?
<daftykins> with 1yr warranty perhaps
<popey> no
<popey> wossat?
<daftykins> ah when you posted your dmesg, i looked up the drive model it was reporting
<daftykins> and found a comment suggesting they're not samsung at all
<daftykins> http://forums.seagate.com/t5/Desktop-HDD-Desktop-SSHD/BEWARE-the-so-called-Samsung-HD204UI/m-p/166856
<daftykins> this was the one i believe
<daftykins> i'm sure it's not really a concern but i found it interesting nonetheless
<popey> yeah, not seen that before
<daftykins> 1 year warranty is ouch, i tend to buy based on just getting the longest :D
<popey> mine dont have 1 year, i know that
<MartijnVdS> they do. European laws :)
<popey> mine are well over a year old anyway
<daftykins> i wonder how dead the enterprise WDs in my server are
<daftykins> from back when 1TB was new and impressive XD
<daftykins> uh-oh 40GB free on the downloads drive again
<daftykins> http://www.ebuyer.com/513533-wd-se-2tb-3-5-sata-internal-hard-drive-wd2000f9yz?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products&gclid=CM-Gwt7-jrkCFSTKtAodZkgAVw
<daftykins> Western Digital SEs are available :D
<daftykins> they're the fancy new NAS/upper scale line
<daftykins> sort of part way between the Reds and the full higher MTBF of the RE line afaik
<bigcalm> Steak T-1.5 hours
<bigcalm> Steak time!
<bigcalm> I mean, LUG time!
<davmor2> bigcalm: no you mean steak time
<daftykins> SUG time
<mungbean> shhh
 * popey returns from a lug meet
<andylockran> howdy
<mgdm> 'lo
<daftykins> hi
<daftykins> popey: any interesting shenanigans?
<popey> yes!
<popey> i learned some stuff, which was good
<daftykins> but popey knows all D:
<popey> hah
<popey> was talking to a guy about 3d printers
<daftykins> ooh
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-22
<MartijnVdS> Thank you for taking the time to report this crash and helping to make
<MartijnVdS> this software better.  This particular crash has already been reported
<MartijnVdS> and is a duplicate of bug #1204467
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 1204467 could not be found
<MartijnVdS> exactly my point, lubotu3
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<mungbean> private bug MartijnVdS
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<luke__> Good morning.
<mungbean> so i've been teaching my baby to do jedi tricks
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/dGoUtYq.jpg
<mungbean> how is she doing?
<luke__> You are an excellent teacher, Master Mungbean.
<luke__> Looks like her midichlorians are off the scale.
<SuperMatt> morning all
<luke__> Good morning.
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<BigRedS> I'm after a free CalDAV client that doesn't support plain ical-over-http
<MooDoo> mornin
<BigRedS> (in the same way as the OSX calendar app does). Anyone got any suggestions?
<BigRedS> it's only for testing that what I've made really is a calDav feed
<SuperMatt> I'm assuming you've tried lightning?
<BigRedS> ah! no, that hadn't ocurred to me
<BigRedS> ta!
<BigRedS> I tried evolution then ran out of ideas and apt-cache only had servers
<SuperMatt> I'm not sure if lightning does what you want though
<BigRedS> apparently it does do caldav
<BigRedS> well, sunbird does
<BigRedS> which would save also installing thunderbird
<BigRedS> I've already got an ical fed (which the OSX people grumbled about) so I can quickly see if I can get it to break on that
<BigRedS> Hm. Well it core dumps when I give it an ical feed and tell it that it's caldav
<BigRedS> that's sort-of what I wanted...
<SuperMatt> I see
<diddledan_> ouch
<diddledan_> I wonder if it's exploitable?
<diddledan_> :-p
<BigRedS> Haha, that can be this afternoon's project: )
<BigRedS> Hm. I just asked apt-get to install thunderbird and lightning, I wanted it to say "very very frightning"...
<popey> heh
<MooDoo> BigRedS: you need to do apt-get install scaramoosh for that
<BigRedS> haha
<Myrtti> I'm just a poor girl from a poor family
<MooDoo> Myrtti: do you do the fandango?
<bigcalm> Is it Grimm?
<MartijnVdS> is it "on core"?
<twager> I am thinking of getting a 321 payg account anyone heard adverse comments about this provider ?
<brobostigon> i have been with three for a while on payg, works well.
<twager> brobostigon: Thanks it just seems so cheap compared to others..
<brobostigon> twager: it is good value, yes, i get 3000 sms 300 mins and no fup unlimited data for Â£15 a month, pretty good to me.
<twager> brobostigon: Thanks...I now off to get the sim :-)
<brobostigon> twager: youre welcome.
<bigcalm> Is it next week yet? I want my Galaxy Nexus
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
 * popey hugs giffgaff
<popey> 4 phones in our house on giffgaff
<ali1234> if half of children need more exercise, does that mean that half of children need less exercise?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: no, because a certain amount of children has just enough exercise.
<ali1234> not necessarily
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but you can't say from that statement
<ali1234> if "amount of exercise" is continuous it is somewhat unlikely in fact
<bigcalm> aquarius: Adam Sweet wants to join us on the Real Ale Train (21st September, Hants). You and he should get a hotel room together and come :)
<popey> hard without tickets
<MooDoo> BigRedS: that's almost lug radio live real ale train edition ;)
<bigcalm> popey: last time I looked, there were 4 left
<bigcalm> Gone now :(
<bigcalm> MooDoo: wrong big
<MooDoo> bigcalm: dammit :)
<davmor2> wget -r -l1 -A.(file ending) http://the.url/path/  is fantastic if you need to grab a bunch of files with the same .ending from a directory on a server :)  this is what I have learned today thanks to google and the t'interwebz
<DJones> Ahh, I feel so much more relaxed today than normal, can it really just be drinking Red Bush tea instead of coffee thats caused that
<dwatkins> yes
<dwatkins> I switched to decaf, because coffee just makes me get stressed really easily.
<DJones> I normally drink decaf so wasn't expecting much of a difference
<davmor2> DJones: red leaf is sedatory (not sure if that is a word)  it is great to help you sleep
 * popey tickles TheOpenSourcerer with Daviey 
<AlanBell> soporific is a word davmor2
<TheOpenSourcerer> yo
<davmor2> AlanBell: that'll do too :D ta
<mungbean> http://blogs.esa.int/luca-parmitano/2013/08/20/eva-23-exploring-the-frontier/
<mungbean> space people might find this interseting
<MooDoo> mungbean: did you read about the italian while doing an EVA nearly drowning in his suit?
<mgdm> MooDoo: that's what that article is
<MooDoo> oops didn't read it, just remember seeing this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23777804
<mungbean> how dare you not click on my link ;)
<MooDoo> :p
<mungbean> i bet you ignored my yoda baby link this morning too :P
<MooDoo> yes
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/dGoUtYq.jpg
<mungbean> took months of training
<MooDoo> awww brill :D
<popey> is that your babby?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> the pic combines floating ball, hands and frowny face, woouldn't have worked without all three
<mungbean> she's 5 months
<MartijnVdS> 4PRIO 1 GOEDE HERDERKERK TEN HARMSENSTRAAT 14 ALPHEN AAN DEN RIJN BEDELVING/INSTORTING (VK: 2) 9194 2271 2233
<MartijnVdS> mispaste.. oops
<MooDoo> interesting though ;)
<mgdm> that looks like METAR, but I know it's not :)
<MartijnVdS> it's P2000 :)
<MartijnVdS> Special kind of "text message" for emergency services
<mgdm> ahh
<mungbean> does anyone in here know a person who's good with HPC?
<mungbean> i.e. does it for a job
<MartijnVdS> hpc?
<mungbean> high performance computing clusters
<MartijnVdS> those things scary
<mgdm> mungbean: I do, but they're in Perth, in Australia
<mungbean> trying to see the size of the market
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: they have computers in Perth now?
<mungbean> how niche it is
<Monotoko> Argh, xterm needs to stop nicking my Alt keys
 * Monotoko glares
<mungbean> mgdm: thats funny, on the hpcwire jobs page they are mostly aussie jobs
<mgdm> mungbean: hmm, strange
<mgdm> mungbean: he used to work at Glasgow Uni, and then CERN
<SuperMatt> seems like Glasgo Uni is good for job prospects
<mgdm> Might've been Strathclyde, actually
<diddledan_> dammit, I forgot to have lunch
<slvr> Oxford has a supercomputing centre for HPC. Unfortunately I've only ever used it as a user.
<dwatkins> mungbean: I know a bunch of people who do a lot of HPS stuff, I used to work for SGI.
<dwatkins> *HPC
<Monotoko> bah
<Monotoko> Windows :(
<dwatkins> There are quite a lot of big installations which SGI has looked after over the past few years, but they tend to be relatively dispersed around the UK.
<diddledan> http://gizmodo.com/5977989/internet-explorer-vs-murder-rate-will-be-your-favorite-chart-today
<diddledan> joy
 * popey wonders if someone will make https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Rich for Ubuntu â»
<ali1234> i will make it if you will buy it
<neuro> you could set up a crowdfunding campaign to raise $32m to develop it
<neuro> ooooh, zing
<ali1234> brilliant
<neuro> just reading some of the stuff in the edge aftermath
<ali1234> is it safe to unmute my canonical g+ circle yet?
<neuro> i'm of the opinion that the only winner out of the last month is indiegogo
<ali1234> i don't think anyone won
<neuro> or paypal
<neuro> whoever held the pledges in escrow would have earned a nice chunk of interest off $12m
<ali1234> any interest they earned from holding the money will not cover the admin costs
<neuro> what admin costs?
<ali1234> and the interest of 1 month would be... nothing given current interest rates
<ali1234> admin costs? well, like the cost of running a payment processing service?
<neuro> you really think either entity won't hold escrow funds in an aggressively high interest account?
<neuro> those payments are part and parcel of the service
<ali1234> "aggressively high interest" means what, 2% APR?
<AlanBell> about $10,000 tops
<ali1234> yeah i concur
<ali1234> it's peanuts to paypal
<ali1234> plus you have the admin cost of taking a payment, and then refunding it
<ali1234> plus all the problems if anything in that process messes up... then there's support costs
<AlanBell> or about 36 cents per refund
<ali1234> hmm?
<AlanBell> that is dividing the interest by the number of refunds
<ali1234> ah
<AlanBell> if the admin cost of taking the money and giving it back is more than 36 cents then they lost money on the deal
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> 36 cents is pretty cheap for a transaction
<AlanBell> there will be random stuff in there, like credit cards that expired during the month
<ali1234> how much would the CC companies take if the payments weren't refunded? more, i bet
<ali1234> yeah, and then the person will have to ring up paypal support and get it sorted, which takes time
<ali1234> should've accepted bitcoin
<neuro> like that's easy to deal with
<AlanBell> http://www.practicalecommerce.com/articles/4107-Beware-Credit-Card-Processing-Fees-Especially-Refunds
<ali1234> $32M is only 1.6% of BTC market cap
<neuro> and you've answered your own question
<ali1234> why?
<neuro> if you have to ask ...
<popey> it doesnt go back to the credit card though does it
<popey> it goes back to paypal
<popey> so expired credit cards aren't an issue (for paypal / indiegogo / canonical)
<ali1234> i don't know
<popey> I'll tell you when I get my 50 bucks back ã
<ali1234> pretty bad if the refund ends up stuck inside paypal...
<AlanBell> eww
<ali1234> but then, that's why i refuse to use them
<neuro> but not everyone will have used paypal ...
<popey> people paid with paypal, so yeah, I expect them to go back
<ali1234> yeah, they will, because that is the only thing indiegogo accepts
<popey> you can use a credit card with paypal
<popey> and bypass paypal itself
<neuro> ali1234: if you're with a faster payments bank, you can pull cash out of paypal within 2 hours, usually within minutes
<neuro> and most major uk banks do faster payments now
<ali1234> only if you give paypal your bank details
<neuro> why wouldn't you?
<ali1234> then you have to transfer it back on to your credit card
<neuro> and that'll take a couple of days
<ali1234> i wouldn't give paypal my bank details because then they can take money from my account any time they want without my authorization
<neuro> so you probably won't pay much/any interest
<popey> people who backed less than 500, it could go directly backto their card they used
<neuro> ali1234: i didn't sign up to a direct debit
<ali1234> and without the protection a credit card gives you
<popey> for people paying over 500, it will probably go to paypal
<neuro> so paypal can only credit me, not debit
<ali1234> what guarantee do you have of that?
<neuro> a massive one
<ali1234> btw you can't pay more than Â£500 without having a verified paypal account
<popey> indeed
<popey> that caused problems for some people backing edge
<ali1234> where verified means - you gave them your bank account details so they can take money at any time
<popey> had to wait a couple of days
<neuro> they have no authorisation to collect funds from my account
<neuro> i have a verified account
<ali1234> do you believe that will stop them?
<neuro> yes
<neuro> because they have no authorisation from me
<ali1234> why? when it has happened so many times?
<neuro> it's never, ever, ever happened to me
<ali1234> and therefore it never will
<neuro> giving someone my bank details doesn't give them the capability to take money from my account
<ali1234> it does with paypal
<neuro> how?
<neuro> i didn't sign up to the direct debit
<AlanBell> isn't that what Jeremy Clarkson said to his cost?
<neuro> it reminds me every time i check my bank details
<ali1234> if you link a bank account, you can make purchases and have it debited automatically
<AlanBell> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7174760.stm
<neuro> ali1234: only if you set up a direct debit
<ali1234> so how did you get a verified account without signing up to the direct debit?
<neuro> i dunno
<ali1234> probably grandfathered in
<diddledan> that's a paradox, isn't it? :-p
<neuro> huh
<neuro> it says i've completed the direct debit instruction
<neuro> but it also says i haven't completed the direct debit instruction
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> the rules used to be much more lax
<neuro> oh, i see, it's my second bank account
<diddledan> I've been a user of paypal since the early days and haven't had any issues that I can recall
<ali1234> me too, it doesn't mean i can ignore all the well documented problems others have had
<popey> spooky
<DJones> AlanBell: That story would have been a bank error though, anybody can write sort code & ccount number on a direct debit mandate & scribble a signature or fill the details in online, but at the end of the day its not authorised by the account holder so the bank would have to refund it
<neuro> Bank accounts - Royal Bank of Scotland x-XXXX (Primary) (Unconfirmed)
<popey> just got a paypal payment
<AlanBell> oh, also, it was dollars
<AlanBell> do you get back the pound value at the original exchange rate or the prevailing rate?
<neuro> DJones: totally
<neuro> AlanBell: you'll get it back in the currency you sent it
<neuro> so when it becomes GBP, it'll be at the prevailing rate
<DJones> Probably at current exchange rates though
<neuro> july 22 it was approx $0.6512 = Â£1
<neuro> right now it's $0.6416 = Â£1
<neuro> although paypal's rates will naturally differ
<neuro> so off of a $699 charge, you'd lose about $7
<neuro> Â£7, sorry
<neuro> pretty ridiculous to me that a crowdfunding campaign service takes the payment before the campaign has run
<neuro> tis why i prefer kickstarter
<neuro> no goals met, no charges
<ali1234> yeah but kickstarter has those pesky rules like requiring a working prototype
<neuro> funny, i thought they had some
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> just an empty case
<neuro> popey?
<neuro> were you playing with an empty case?
<popey> hmm?
<popey> it was an engineering prototype, no electronics in it
<neuro> awwww
<ali1234> so has any crowd funding campaign ever missed their target by a larger amount?
<diddledan> no
<ali1234> \o/ breaking records \o/
<diddledan> but then no crowd funding campaign has ever earned as much, either :-p
<ali1234> except star citizen
<ali1234> i just remembered i made that bet on betsofbitco.in
<diddledan> you bet that edge would fail?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> as did everyone else, but since i got in early, i still made about $5
<ali1234> although for some reason it has not been closed yet
<ali1234> http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1691
<diddledan> lol
<ali1234> "On September 10th Apple will announce a new version of the iPhone with a fingerprint scanner built into the home button."
<ali1234> seems unlikely to me
<ali1234> but nobody bet against it
<neuro> despite the hooks in the ios 7 code
<ali1234> oh? you got insider info?
<neuro> there were a ton of articles when the relevant beta came out
<neuro> like at least a month ago
<ali1234> i don't follow apple stuff really. actually, at all
<neuro> http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/07/fingerprint-based-unlocking-shows-up-in-latest-ios-7-beta/
<ali1234> cool
<ali1234> "Julian Assange, or another candidate from the Wikileaks Party, will be  elected to the Australian Senate in the 2013 Australian federal  election." this one also seems unlikely to me, but it has more bets on it happening than against
<popey> Never mind! There's a new campaign!
<popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/linca-exiler-smartphone
<neuro> that's how you start a campaign
<neuro> basic cost, then a perk cost (in this case, the cases), then bundles
<neuro> none of this early bird, later bird, random bird, tiers that change, then a flat higher/lower cost
<ali1234> angry bird?
<ali1234> that's what we need
<neuro> heh
<MM6YHF> Ubuntu 50.04 Angry Bird
<ali1234> that looks really shady...
<neuro> you think people will still know what Angry Birds was by 2050?
<ali1234> probably
<MM6YHF> Don't let facts get in the way of a daft joke
<neuro> :)
<ali1234> people still know what star wars was
<Nafallo> popey: not ubuntu on this one?
<popey> surprised you didn't say "you think people will now what ubuntu was by 2050"
<ali1234> open source can't be put back in the box
<ali1234> people will know what linux was long after they have forgotten about microsoft
<neuro> doubtful
<ali1234> no, not at all
<ali1234> copyright has this effect
<neuro> yeah, that's why no-one remembers the coca-cola company
<ali1234> coca cola still makes products
<neuro> and why wouldn't microsoft still be around in 2050?
<ali1234> oh they will
<ali1234> i'm thinking more like 3050
<popey> our flying linux cars will fall from the sky in 2038
<neuro> so how would they be forgotten about
<neuro> you think linux will still be around in 2050?
<neuro> popey: :)
<neuro> err, s/2050/3050/
<ali1234> yes, of course it will
<neuro> who's to say another disruptor won't come along and convert us all again?
<SuperEngineer> and those wounded in the fallen cars will covered in open sores
<MM6YHF> Yeah. I mean, ReactOS might get big
<neuro> :)
<ali1234> since linux is open source it is much more likely that it gets forked
<ali1234> i wouldn't be surprised if in 3050 there was still the full commit history back to today's linux kernels
<ali1234> microsoft's source code though? yeah you'll have to go raking through landfills to find that
<neuro> EINE TAUSENDJÃHRIGE REICH!
<neuro> sorry, watched inglourious basterds the other day :)
<neuro> "Drei GlÃ¤ser!"
<ali1234> i think it's a really interesting topic, actually
<ali1234> we are creating so much digital media now, which never has to decay
<neuro> i think it's a nice idea, but there's a strong possibility something else could come along and blow linux away
<ali1234> what do we know about people from 1000 years ago? nothing. what will people know about us in 1000 years? everything
<neuro> yeah, we know nothing about 1013 ...
<MM6YHF> 2050 isn't that far away. Look at how much COBOL there is still in the world. That's not going away either
<ali1234> (comparitively)
<popey> it is slowly
<Nafallo> pooooopey!
<neuro> as popey says, i'd say the 2K38 bug is more pressing than there being cobol in the world
<MM6YHF> well, not overnight. And some of it is probably of a similar vintage
<Nafallo> popey: OS on that thingie? :-)
<neuro> COBOL is 54 years old
<neuro> C is 41 years old
<neuro> as time progresses, that 13 year gap becomes progressively more small, relatively speaking
<ali1234> C isn't going anywhere though
<neuro> neither is COBOL, apparently
<ali1234> only as legacy though
<neuro> you sure?
<ali1234> yeah, pretty sure
<neuro> "In 1997, the Gartner Group reported that 80% of the world's business ran on COBOL with over 200 billion lines of code in existence and with an estimated 5 billion lines of new code annually."
<ali1234> i doubt many people set out to write a whole new system in COBOL
<ali1234> 1997 lol
<neuro> but there are so many systems still running that have been running for years, decades
<ali1234> that was 16 years ago
<MM6YHF> People born in 1997 are now 16? Oh
<MM6YHF> so they are
<popey> and were replaced leading up to 2000
<ali1234> also i find that statistic hard to reconcile with real facts, like how microsoft windows has a massive monopoly and isn't written in COBOL
<neuro> popey: or fixed
<popey> we replaced so many systems leading up to 2000
<neuro> just because you did (and I did too), doesn't mean everyone did
<popey> I didnt say it did
<popey> don't take everything so literally
<neuro> i wasn't intending to, sorry :)
<neuro> but you know what i mean
<popey> I do.
<ali1234> if you had a time machine and you could only go into the future or the past, which one would you pick?
<neuro> past
<ali1234> i would go to the future
<neuro> because that stuff is kwown
<neuro> kwown? known
<ali1234> worst case, 99% of humans are dead and it's exactly like going to the past
<ali1234> best case: flying cars, robots and spaceships
<neuro> you know over 99% of humans are dead anyway
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> ok mr pedantic
<ali1234> what i mean is the earth's population is reduced to 1% of what it is today
<neuro> ok, i got my numbers wrong
<neuro> a 2011 estimate says 107.6bn humans born, ever
<neuro> 6.987bn alive in mid-2011
<neuro> percentage alive, 6.5%
<ali1234> yeah that whole "more living than dead" thing has been debunked
<neuro> what thing?
<ali1234> there was a meme that there are more people alive today than have died ever
<neuro> that sounds pretty stupid :)
<ali1234> i think it might have been on QI
<ali1234> well at some point it was true
<neuro> hopefully there was a huge WEEEUUUUUUURR, WEEEEUUUUUUURRR noise after someone said that
<ali1234> though of course it depends how you define "human" with evolution and all that
<neuro> the numbers talk about homo sapiens
<neuro> 50,000 BC: 2
<neuro> 8,000 BC: 5m
<neuro> 1 AD: 300m
<neuro> etc
<neuro> although the 50,000 BC time estimate is a bit iffy
<mungbean> weird. have disabled lightdm bongo sound in dconf-editor and it still plays the noise
<ali1234> anyway, it doesn't matter, it's completely false
<neuro> i wasn't trying to defend it :)
<ali1234> my point is the worst case for the future is like the past, except maybe with more radiation
<neuro> so anyway, my point is, "legacy" systems still potentially have life in them
<ali1234> and a higher sea level
<neuro> due to the potential cost of replacing systems that work pretty reliably as-is
<SuperEngineer> ali1234, neuro: the truth is that the planet is growing at such at rate that +is* thought to be unsustainable
<popey> there will always be interesting enthusiasts keeping things running
<neuro> oh sure
<neuro> i know a guy who loves his VAXen
<SuperEngineer> i.e. the population of the..
<ali1234> SuperEngineer: i dn't really agree with that, actually
<ali1234> i think we're good for at least another 10-20 billion
<neuro> have you been building arcologies in simcity again?
<ali1234> that's probably another 100 years to get into space
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: you are, obviously, entitled to your own opinion
<ali1234> with arcologies we could hit 100 billion easily
<neuro> good luck with that
<mungbean> world poverty can be fixed in a stroke if we had peace and no need for defence budgets
<ali1234> my 20 billion estimate is with current technology
<neuro> tall buildings have a tendency to a) be expensive and b) fall down under duress
<diddledan> build down
<diddledan> into the ground
<ali1234> yeah, that's always an option
<neuro> there are things in the way
<neuro> like fibre optic cables
<neuro> and trains
<neuro> and gas pockets
<SuperEngineer> and trolls
<neuro> look at paris
<ali1234> who says you have to do it in existing cities?
<ali1234> SuperEngineer: *morlocks
<neuro> they can't build anything tall and heavy in case they go down through the catacombs
<mungbean> horlicks>?
<neuro> oh so you'd happily screw up the countryside with arcologies?
<neuro> look how mad people get about wind farms
<ali1234> neuro: yeah we'd hae to do something about the nimbys
<neuro> also, certain places aren't exactly amenable to humans
<neuro> and for some of them, nor should they be
<ali1234> but the bottom line is there's plenty of places on earth where people could live, given sufficient motivation
<diddledan> is mass murder out of the question in regards to the nimby problem?
<neuro> there's *loads* of places people *could* live
<neuro> but it's a question of whether they *should* live there
<ali1234> not really
<neuro> or are we just talking about sod the global ecology and build our way out of a problem?
<popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-smart-charger-charging-on-the-go-for-iphone-android-the-ubuntu-edge
<popey> *chuckle*
<ali1234> that's what we've always done in the past
<neuro> you'll notice more care generally being taken these days
<ali1234> i can't see humans just lying down and dying for the good of the ecology
<neuro> and when care isn't taken, people tend to get upset
<ali1234> not enough to make a difference anyway
<neuro> so why exacerbate things?
<ali1234> what do you mean?
<neuro> never mind
<neuro> i don't have the energy this evening, apologies :)
<neuro> http://www.polygon.com/features/2013/8/22/4602568/30-years-xbox-360-playstation-3-wii
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... DejaDup set to keep backups "for at least a month or until disk space is low" - backup today failed - disk full... Fail!
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grandstand-Pocket-Scramble-LCD-game-/300951623892
<popey> oh man, i had that as a kid
<popey> and the yellow pac man one
<mgdm> I had a fairly formulaic football one
<mgdm> once you twigged to the pattern it was easily defeated
<popey> same with pacman
<popey> it got progressively faster but you could always use the same pattern
<popey> once you hit 999 the ganme stopped
<mgdm> heh
<mgdm> I think the one I had might've looped
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<mgdm> 'lo bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<popey> yo bigcalm
<bigcalm> Howdy
<bigcalm> Galaxy Nexus has been dispatched!
<popey> ooh!
<popey> and yay
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> gonna put touch on it? â»
<bigcalm> That was kind of the point of buying it :P
<popey> \o/
<popey> when is it due to arrive?
<bigcalm> Sometime from Tuesday
<bigcalm> Would be nice if it turned up tomorrow morning though
 * mgdm will be getting a new N7 some time soon
<mgdm> when the new model's out
<mgdm> it's a bit daft claiming to be able to write Android apps but not having a device
<ali1234> i had one of those LCD racing games. you could learn the pattern but it always got faster
<ali1234> this exact one, actually: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-SYSTEMA-RACING-LCD-1980s-GAME-BOXED-/130926316413?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1e7bd10b7d
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/working-nintendo-donkey-kong-game-and-watch-multi-screen-dk-52-/251322080385
<popey> also had one of them
<ali1234> it only cost Â£5 back in 198whatever
<ali1234> i love how the new nintendo stuff looks exactly like the old nintendo stuff
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERY-RARE-VINTAGE-MGT-SAM-COUPE-COMPUTER-VGC-BOXED-/290930718266
<popey> how much
<bigcalm> My my
<ali1234> commodore 64: Â£7.49
<ali1234> there is no justice
<mgdm> I have 3 of those at home
<ali1234> still, i might buy it
<popey> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=at.maui.cheapcast&hl=en
<popey> interesting, when put together with an mk802 or somesuch
<ali1234> oh hang on, it's broken
<ali1234> well, repairing it might be fun
<neuro> mgdm: you still have 3 sam coupÃ©s?
<bigcalm> Almost half way to full funding on this. People should pitch in :) http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1821240043/pice-the-ultimate-case-for-your-raspberry-pi-and-c
<mgdm> neuro: yes, and each has a C64. :P
<neuro> you must bring me one on tuesday
<neuro> in return, i will give you 50 pence
<neuro> *AND*
<neuro> a packet of rolos
<mgdm> neuro: they're in Stornoway
<neuro> curses
<mgdm> neuro: also, they are MINESES
<neuro> lol
<mgdm> also - you're coming on Tuesday! grand
<neuro> yeah, after some dentist fun
<mgdm> so you're coming in looking like a pished Dracula? great :D
<neuro> heh
<neuro> hope nott
<neuro> s/tt/t/
<neuro> musical pi http://3.14-pi.net/
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-23
<popey> Morning.
<MooDoo> morning popey
<mungbean> morn
<mungbean> realise we're not getting hte night shift in here anymore..people must be away...
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<AlanBell> morning
<popey> mungbean: the loco is quiet in general
<mungbean> popey: needs fresh injection?
<bigcalm> I had forgotten that I had installed uptimed on all of my machines. Which is a good thing, because now I have stats to gaze at. Thank you UUPC for the reminder :D
<mungbean> does it logs uptimes to a central server?
<mungbean> or queries the servers from a conf file at runtime?
<bigcalm> Not that I know
<mungbean> how does it work?
<bigcalm> mungbean: ask popey :D
<mungbean> or listen to the programme?
<mungbean> Uptimed has the ability to inform you of records and milestones through syslog and e-mail, and comes with a console front end to parse the records, which can also easily be used to show your records on your Web page.
<bigcalm> uupc_s06e26.mp3 23:02
<bigcalm> !uptimed
<bigcalm> !info uptimed
<lubotu3> uptimed (source: uptimed): utility to track high uptimes - daemon. In component universe, is extra. Version 1:0.3.17-3.1 (quantal), package size 31 kB, installed size 161 kB
<mungbean> http://www.robertjohnkaper.com/software/uptimed/ is a fail
<mungbean> does uptimed allow you to query all srvers or you are just doing a for blah in `cat servers` do ....
<bigcalm> You're asking the wrong person :)
<mungbean> < bigcalm> I had forgotten that I had installed uptimed on all of my machines. Which is a good thing, because now I have stats to gaze at.
<mungbean> :P
<mungbean> just wondered if you were gazing at individual machines or a collection all togethre ;)
<bigcalm> Go back in time, install uptimed. Come back to the present and run uprecords: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6016924/
<bigcalm> mungbean: so far I have run it on individual machines. I have not investigated any other aspects of the utility
<mungbean> coolio
<mungbean> thax
<bigcalm> 808 State!
 * bigcalm raves
<popey> mungbean: yes
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Boolean answers, the response to multiple questions at once!
<mungbean> get your mate joey to raise profile of loco :P
<mungbean> he has lots of enthusiastic readers
<popey> he only asked me one question
<popey> and I only answered one
<bigcalm> Aww
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh popey got a mo?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all.
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: sure
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wife and kids have just left. Wifey back tomorrow or Sunday. Kids back next weekend :-D
<popey> \o/ Home alone
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<brobostigon> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo brobostigon
<MooDoo> yay popey
<MooDoo> so what are your plans for the weekend....beer, ubuntu and telly?
<SuperMatt> DnD for my weekend
<popey> Doctor Who
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: my son has just discovered warhammer 40k
<SuperMatt> I have no knowledge of warhammer
<mungbean> have a weird problem with my windows install . text is terrible ! tuning cleartype does not work
<brobostigon> will be good here also, home alone for the weekend, so am cooking for my gf tonight.
<SuperMatt> I also have no knowledge of D&D, but then neither do my friends, yet we're giving it a go
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: My son is mad for WH40k
<TheOpenSourcerer> & Minecraft
<mungbean> is that the real game involving chracters or a virtual game?
<SuperMatt> I've tried getting in to mine craft, it just doesn't seem to happen for me
<SuperMatt> though I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to run a D&D game based on minecraft, from what I know of it
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: WHAT? don't like minecraft?
<SuperMatt> I just don't really see the point of it really
<SuperMatt> either that or I don't have the time for it
<mungbean> ditto, i don't have time to invest, so i've never tried it
<MooDoo> it's fun and my son loves it
<mungbean> i would enjoy it if i had time to :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've never played it, but I do host a server for him and his mates.
<popey> "I dont see the point of lego" is basically what you just said SuperMatt
<brobostigon> maccano :)
<popey> SuperMatt: have you ever played it?
<SuperMatt> I have
<SuperMatt> but lego is so very different to minecraft, becauase you already have the piece laid out in front of you, and you can make whatever you want in no time at all
<SuperMatt> in minecraft you have to find the bits you want, then start making stuff, then you have to build some steps up so you can finish the top, and then remove them
<SuperMatt> it's just a long winded lego
<popey> no. you dont
<popey> creative mode == lego
<SuperMatt> then what's the point of the other modes?
<popey> fun
<mungbean> i might buy it for my mrs when there's a sale on next
<mungbean> for android
<brobostigon> mungbean: minecraft pe cant connect to normal minecraft servers.
<popey> I'd be surprised if there's ever a sale on minecraft pe
<popey> don't recall it ever being discounted
<mungbean> 0.99
<mungbean> in the google billion app sale
<popey> oh, missed that
<mungbean> since then my wife is asking for contruction games
<bigcalm> I got it for 10p :)
<bigcalm> Haven't played it since
<bigcalm> I like using mouse and keyboard
<brobostigon> it would also be nice to be able to connect to normal servers.
<popey> SuperMatt: survival and hardcore are fun if you want to go adventuring, and challenge yourself.
<bigcalm> The above is also good for buddy building
<bigcalm> (and mining)
<jussi> AlanBell: you about at all ?
<AlanBell> might be
<jussi> :D
<jussi> I PM'ed
<mungbean> is the sims android version a DLC money spinner?
<popey> arent all android games?
<mungbean> </troll>
<brobostigon> dlc ?
<mungbean> paid for downloadable power ups and content
<popey> i am serious
<brobostigon> ah.
<mungbean> jus want a full game with no scams
<popey> the vast majority of games these days are F2P and IAP
<mungbean> they are evil
<popey> *especially* those from big companies like EA
<popey> my kids have dozens of games on android, and they all nag them to buy updates
<popey> it's a massive pile of pooh
<mungbean> especially EA i agree
<popey> because there's been a race to the bottom price wise and people have a sense of entitlement to free stuff now
<brobostigon> or crippled abit, like minecraft compared to the normal client.
<bashrc> It's back to the old nagware model
<popey> people are "outraged" when a game costs 99p
<bashrc> silly
<popey> yeah, like shareware from 1993
<mungbean> the sims3 is 4.99
<jussi> popey: but yet, when an itrem in game cost 99p, thats fine
<mungbean> unsire if includes IAP though
<popey> it is if you've invested days in it
<jussi> exactly
<popey> I've played tiny tower on iOS for *hours*
<popey> but wont give them a penny
<mungbean> they need a logo/symbol to say when a game includes IAP
<popey> so I am just as guilty
<popey> they do on ios â»
<popey> https://itunes.apple.com/en/app/tiny-tower/id422667065?mt=8 on the left "Top IAP"
<bashrc> I'm not much of a gamer.  Flightgear is about the limit of my gaming activities.
<jussi> bashrc: yeah, flight sims and a bit of heroes 3 is my limits atm :D
<popey> heh, i cant get a plane to a) get off the ground, and b) stay in the air in flightgear
<jussi> however, I use the more "professional" flight sim for linux :)
<mungbean> same for the flight game i downloaded from GOG
<jussi> (Xplane)
<popey> i used to love Tower
<mungbean> 1hr to get off the ground
<bashrc> There are a lot of flaky aircraft models.  The SenecaII seems like a good one
<popey> that was an awesome game
<mungbean> i just want a game like chocks away for archimedes
<popey> wish someone would re-make it for modern platforms. I have to install it under WINE from 3 floppy disk images
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/scrot/2004-02-01-201732_1280x960_scrot.png  <- tower!
<popey> nearly 10 years ago
<jussi> popey:  DEBIAN!!! TRAITOR!!! :P :P : P
<MooDoo> wassup with debian?
<popey> apparently you could connect Tower over serial cable to MS Flight Sim and be the control tower for your friend flying a plane
<MooDoo> :p
<popey> MooDoo: humour
<MooDoo> popey: i know obviously
<bashrc> I think there is a control tower part of flightgear
<mungbean> can't tell if there's something wrong with my windows install or i just am not used to using it
<mungbean> nasty fonts, too much glare
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/scrot/2005-09-21-224627_1920x1200_scrot.png  hehehe
<popey> that was on my old dell xps
<popey> loved that laptop
<jussi> popey: I assume you have come across http://sourceforge.net/projects/towerx/ (yes, you got me googling)
<bashrc> I preserved Windows 8 on my new laptop, but have barely used it.
<popey> i had not
<czajkowski> davmor2: peeka boo
<bigcalm> What are the chances that Royal Mail will make a surprise delivery with my Galaxy Nexus?
<mungbean> its a formula, relating to , are you in the house, in the shower, cooking/onthe phone.
<mungbean> While most children wait until they are 12 for a phone - soon after starting secondary school - nine per cent of those surveyed had already been bought one by their parents at five:-|
<bigcalm> Amazon say that it was dispatched yesterday and should be delivered from Tuesday next week
<mungbean> probability dropping....
<bigcalm> And I'm away from home tonight until Sunday night
<popey> Sophie wants an iPod Touch for her birthday
<bigcalm> popey: at least it's not an iPhone
<popey> bigcalm: you dont have a tracking ID?
<popey> indeed
<bigcalm> popey: no
<popey> bummer
<bigcalm> Yeah
<popey> she's saved up quite a bit towards it
<bigcalm> Good girl :)
<mungbean> Â£20M ?
<mungbean> too soon
<popey> â»
<bigcalm> She sounds as though she's got a sensible head on her shoulders and has been brought up well
<bigcalm> mungbean: too late
<mungbean> except for the apple part
<bigcalm> Is there an android equivalent of an iPod Touch?
<bigcalm> My Galaxy Nexus will be due to lack of sim card :D
<mungbean> i'm sure archos , sony et al do them
<popey> http://www.giuseppecolarusso.it/improbabilita_.html is delightful
<popey> she already has access to an android device
<popey> and would rather have an ipod touch
<bigcalm> I like the tape measure belt
<mungbean> i like the spray can
<mungbean> very nice set of pics
<popey> i like the rope cutlery
<popey> yeah
<bigcalm> 2 pint mug is for Zaphod Beeblebrox
<mungbean> have you seen those glasses of wine they sell in the offie?
<mungbean> its a plastic goblet of wine with a foil lid
<mungbean> http://thischarmingcharlie.tumblr.com/
<bigcalm> mungbean: damn you, I was trying to get work done
<mungbean> bwahahah
<mungbean> its only 10 mins
<mungbean> of pleasure
<davmor2> Morning all
 * popey pokes davmor2 with pm
<davmor2> I just had to wait 40 minutes to get a prescription for the mother in law from her doctors, I was ready to suggest they pay me to get the queue down while I stood there doing nothing grrrrrrrrrrrr </rant>
<davmor2> popey: you might think you have
<popey> i did
<popey> 40 mins ago
<mungbean> ewww conversation with nurse at doctors "we're just waitig for them to grow the cultures"
<mungbean> sent them a toenail clipping ;)
<mungbean> i just thought they would put it in a machine
<mungbean> and get a result
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> perhaps you've provided a new form of biological warfare, mungbean
<mungbean> just doing my bit
<mungbean> queen and country
<daftykins> :>
<popey> ebay still broken, 3 hours later
<mungbean> proper broke?
<daftykins> cor, so it is
<mungbean> WFM
<popey> login and pages dont appear properly
<popey> see @ebay_uk for lies about maintenance â»
<daftykins> XD
<mungbean> remember when ebay used to be down for maintaneance every friday morning 7-11?
<daftykins> ah there we go, swooshing for a good 20 seconds then it came up
<daftykins> it did!?
<mungbean> in the 90s and early 2000s
<mungbean> properly offline
<popey> yeah
<popey> i remember that
<popey> i also remember icq â»
<popey> 11317622
<mungbean> sad
<daftykins> :)
<mungbean> i don't remember my uni library card number
<mungbean> not at all
<popey> i remember my dads number plate from ~1979
<mungbean> nor the registrations of my friends dads cars either
<popey> PLM573W
<popey> ELY760T
<mungbean> ruv275Y
<popey> â»
<mungbean> tmj118w
<mungbean> same era
<popey> Talbot Solara and Talbot Horizon
<popey> hideous cars
<mungbean> cars were moer simple then
<mungbean> were they brown?
<popey> white and blue
<daftykins> such misspent youths!
<daftykins> i totally don't remember several game CD keys *whistle*
<popey> friend had a brown allegro
<popey> used to go on holiday in it, horrid journeys
<popey> but memorable â»
<mungbean> i'm reading richard hammond book atm to please my wife
<mungbean> many references to chopper bikes and mashing your goolies on the gear change
<daftykins> D:
<popey> i didnt have a chopper
<popey> i had the smaller one, grifter?
<popey> imitation, but same layout
<mungbean> tomahawk
<mungbean> i had pavemaster, tomahawk, grifter, chopper
<mungbean> grifter was bmx with ghears
<mungbean> they did a girls chopper called a budgie too i think
<daftykins> XD
<mungbean> one day all the other boys who lived in teh alleyway crowded round to try my tomahhawk because you could do massive wheelies and it had an interesting brakes
<mungbean> bikes were my world as a boy
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i still love 'em
<daftykins> my main one is a carbon fibre framed full suspension competitive cross country specialized
<daftykins> albeit with intelligent rear suspension that doesn't make you bounce up and down losing all your power when going uphill
<AlanBell> mungbean: grifter was BMX with gears and a frame made from reinforced concrete
<AlanBell> I had a chopper
<mungbean> slip gear lol
<popey> intelligent rear suspension lol
<popey> â»
<davmor2> I still remember my first bike and then stripping it down to see how it ticked then putting it back together again and everyone being amazed at the fact I'd done it.  Apparently most 8-10 year olds ride bikes not repair them.  I pointed out though that my mom couldn't so I needed too :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> My first "proper car" was a Talbot Solara
<TheOpenSourcerer> And talking of Chopppers... Seen what we did to my kid's bike this summer? https://plus.google.com/u/0/104060033182234025482/posts/FAhn1YNnkjv
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right am going out for a while. Drop off a ticket, do some shopping and collect a laptop.
<bigcalm> Goodness
<bigcalm> Choochoo ticket?
<TheOpenSourcerer> might be MooDoo
<TheOpenSourcerer> opps bigcalm
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> Oh, goodo :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> For davey
<bigcalm> Demand that penny
<bigcalm> You will be missed, but I'm glad that the ticket won't be going to waste
<bigcalm> That said, how wasted is Davey likely to get?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah - I got - 1p but + 1 pint so I reckon am quid's in.
<bigcalm> :D
<daftykins> anyone else been getting these google calendar spam events lately?
<daftykins> just started yesterday for me - i've already changed the setting so it's no bother, just hadn't seen it before
<bigcalm> ?
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: you stole AlanBell 's saddle
<daftykins> anyone that knows a gmail address can invite that gmail to a calendar event that'll automatically appear on their calendar
<bigcalm> daftykins: I only use the calendar via Thunderbird
<bigcalm> Ouch
<daftykins> you have to go into the settings and disable automatic acceptance
<bigcalm> It's on by default?
<daftykins> which is a bit of an insane default
<daftykins> yeah X|
<davmor2> AlanBell: https://plus.google.com/u/0/104060033182234025482/posts/FAhn1YNnkjv  steal it back
<AlanBell> the chopper saddle was a heap bigger than that one
<AlanBell> http://www.virtualgaz.com/chopperpage.htm one of the only bikes where someone could ride pillion
<davmor2> AlanBell: indeed but that saddle has your name on it :)
<AlanBell> so it does
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I might have a very small front wheel
<daftykins> wow that page is so close to being geocities
<jussi> bah, anyone know where to get a windows 7 pro 64bit cd image?
<jussi> (minus viruses etc, ie. not a nasty torrent)
<jussi> I have a licence, just not media
<davmor2> jussi: microsoft? :D
<daftykins> jussi: got a laptop that's got a creamed install and no media huh?
<mleo> Hi
<bashrc> Could Wine be a solution?
<daftykins> to...?
<bashrc> Having to reinstall Windows
<daftykins> of course not
<bashrc> Depends what Windows apps you want to run
<mleo> I'm linux newbie, trying to setup a linux ubuntu with JEOS 12.04 on my VMware Fusion, but encounter following error W: Not using locking for read only lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock E: Unable to write to /var/cache/apt/ E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened
<mleo> Hope someone can guide to fix
<daftykins> sounds like you're trying to run two package managers at once
<jussi> daftykins: that one...
<daftykins> ?
<mleo> ?
<mleo> daftykins
<daftykins> mleo: is this when trying to update via command line?
<mleo> yes
<mleo> yes, if update via command line
<daftykins> is a graphical software updater already open?
<mleo> nope
<jussi> daftykins: [14:54:26] <daftykins> jussi: got a laptop that's got a creamed install and no media huh? exactly right...
<mleo> this is a JEOS
<mleo> give me 10mins be right back
<jussi> anyway, there is some driver issue that can only be reset through windows...
<jussi> sadly
<daftykins> jussi: see my PM
<daftykins> mleo: /win 11
<daftykins> oops
<daftykins> failtastic
<davmor2> jussi: let me guess bluetooth :D
<jussi> davmor2: actually, no
<davmor2> jussi: that's the normal one apparently :)
<jussi> davmor2: power/battery. Ubuntu thinks the battery is dead, and not connected
<davmor2> jussi: oh nice
<jussi> however, said batter works fine on the other laptop...
<jussi> internet says reinstall windows driver, problem solved
<davmor2> jussi: see pm
<popey> tsk tsk
<daftykins> mleo: ok so it's a pure CLI system
<mleo> yes pure CLI
<mleo> at the moment i need to fix the erro mention first
<daftykins> and "sudo apt-get update" is giving the above?
<mleo> yes the apt-get update will get above error
<daftykins> i wonder if something else is running that's locking said files - i take it you've restarted this VM to be sure?
<mleo> restarted many times, every time boot up it show boot hdd0 error read-only
<mleo> once enter will allow to login
<daftykins> ah that'll be why then :)
<daftykins> can you pastebin the output of "cat /etc/fstab" ?
<mungbean> guide for helping your kids learn to drive
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/CnawiLt.jpg
<popey> haha
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> have to adjust that down to 35mph for Guernsey \o/
<popey> sounds like the filesystem is read-only mleo
<mleo> It show "UNCONFIGURED FSTAB FOR BASE SYSTEM
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> well, that's interesting
<mleo> Download from here
<mleo> http://virtualappliances.eu/?download
<popey> whats the goal of using jeos here mleo ?
<davmor2> daftykins: that's the word yes interesting :D
<daftykins> ^_^
<popey> that car has done 158K miles
<mleo> I'm running SLB demo where i need a bare minimum Webserver / DNS / on my limited Macbook Air
<popey> ideal for child-units then
<popey> SLB?
<mleo> Server Load Balancer
<mleo> :)
<daftykins> can't really trust the source of that JeOS VM, i'd try and find another source or just go with 'server'
<mleo> ok let me find another source
<popey> JEOS isn't really designed for that
<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JeOS
<popey> â»
<mleo> will be back here in short
<popey> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/jeos/releases/ â¹  404
<popey> no longer supported I suspect
 * popey pokes Daviey 
<davmor2> popey: I thought they'd made the base install of ubuntu server effectively jeos could be wrong it's been a while :)
<popey> yeah
<diddledan_> jeos was seriously neglected last I looked 10.04 I believe was the latest release
<popey> i thought only 8.04 was released
<popey> ahh "Its first release was Ubuntu JeOS 7.10, and since the release of Ubuntu 8.10 it has been included as an option as part of the standard Ubuntu Server Edition"
<popey> thanks wikipedia
<popey> Thepedia
<diddledan_> oh maybe I'm two years out of time :-p
<diddledan_> I thought it was 10.04 but it might have been 8.04
<diddledan_> 8.04 is worse than neglected then :-p
<popey> well, as it says, merged into server as davmor2 said, so as daftykins says, worth just installing server
<davmor2> popey: Yay I remembered something woohoo
<daftykins> cookie for you \o/
<mleo> So after installing the normal server, how can i slim it down
<mleo> coz my macbook air limited disk space
<daftykins> well it's really not going to be that big to start with
<daftykins> why don't you buy an external hard disk and store VMs on that?
<davmor2> mleo: there is a jeos option on the install
<popey> mleo: i think there's a "command line only" install option
<popey> mleo: when you boot the installer, press space before you get the menu, and there's some extra options function keys at the bottom
<popey> one has a minimal install option in it
<mleo> popey let me try
<mleo> downloading the ISO now
<ali1234> you can't really slim down server, but you don't need to - it's already tiny compared to ubuntu-desktop
<jussi> can someone explain to me what the GNU AFFERO GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE V3 is about, in very wide terms ?
<Monotoko> I've bloody had it with this insruance company
<Monotoko> They now refuse because it has been replaced by Apple in the past and may use refurbished stock
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wow - just had a call from Nigel Jones (nee patel) at the "World Wide Web Server". That said I hadn't shutdown my computer properly and lots of programs were in error!
<ali1234> jussi: if you run a web service based on code under that license, you have to make the code available, even though you're not distributing any binaries
<ali1234> also applies to other types of services
<nigelb> TheOpenSourcerer: Oh those have come to UK too?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Managed to keep him talking for a while until I got bored.
<nigelb> My Australian friend gets them all the time.
<jussi> ali1234: yeah, ok. but fif you are the user of said service, and you download the code and modify it, what then?
<nigelb> But from "Microsoft"
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey nigelb
<TheOpenSourcerer> how R U?
 * jussi shoots TheOpenSourcerer's pm window... again
<nigelb> I'm good! Happy to be alive! :)
<ali1234> jussi: if you modify the code and then make your own web service based on it, you have to make the source available to users of your service
<jussi> ali1234: ok, thats the info I hoped for, thank you.
<nigelb> Ooh, AGPL.
<nigelb> The "FUN" license.
<ali1234> in other words it is exactly like the GPL except "conveying" is extended to cover making a service available to users over a network
<mungbean> methinks nigelb has nigel on highlight
<nigelb> Yup!
<mungbean> i forget how many (i.e. 80%) idle on this channel
<nigelb> I do talk in here when I am in UK and plotting to meet the various Alans
<popey> \o/ Alans
<SuperMatt> Bullmer is retiring \o/
<mungbean> link?
<popey> see all news
<mungbean> "retiring"
<nigelb> http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveschaefer/2013/08/23/microsoft-ceo-steve-ballmer-to-retire-in-next-12-months/
<nigelb> Yup, retiring.
<SuperMatt> http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2013/aug13/08-23AnnouncementPR.aspx
<nigelb> But, funny that MSFT shares shot up after the annnouncement :P
<SuperMatt> yup!
<SuperMatt> I'm certainly interested in what their new direction will be
<SuperMatt> it can't be much worse than the direction they took with windows 8
<TheOpenSourcerer> Quelle surprise. The big investors have been after his blood for ages.
<TheOpenSourcerer> The bloke was a total idiot. I toned that down for the CoC
<SuperMatt> hahah
<mungbean> epic numpty
<mungbean> i love his portrayal in pirates of silicon valley
<SuperMatt> what was that?
<SuperMatt> or is that something you've just made up?
<mungbean> its an epic film
 * TheOpenSourcerer is finding it hard to focus as it's Friday afternoon and been a totally manic week!
 * TheOpenSourcerer will likely be heading to the pub early today.
 * davmor2 can hear TheOpenSourcerer 's head click as the measures the second till beer O'Clock
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Are we there yet?"
<mungbean> SuperMatt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrPU5_lBWX4
<mungbean> full movie is on youtube, see you in 2hrs
<mungbean> this makes me feel physiscally sick http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8To-6VIJZRE
<mungbean> stoopid ballmer
<SuperMatt> oh god
<SuperMatt> that's the least attractive thing I have ever seen
<mungbean> and somewhat compelling
<SuperMatt> developers!
<mungbean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc
<mungbean> this is the CEO of MS
<SuperMatt> how did anyone take him seriously?
<TheOpenSourcerer> They did?
<SuperMatt> "GIVE IT UP FOR ME" he just screamed
<SuperMatt> I've never seen anyone with such an over inflated sense of self worth
 * mungbean ponders that
<mungbean> maybe some rappers.
<mungbean> but there's not much in it
<mungbean> feeling ill after that sandwich :(
<mungbean> 2hrs of feeling crap until i go home
<SuperMatt> I've got two an a half hours before home time, but some of that will be used up in our weekly cake sessions
<TheOpenSourcerer> cd ..
<TheOpenSourcerer> ooops
<SuperMatt> pwd
<SuperMatt> sudo rm -rf /
<bigcalm> sudo make me a sandwich
 * TheOpenSourcerer slaps SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> I know I was typing that in to irc, but it still gave me the willies
<TheOpenSourcerer> The chap from the "World Wide Web Server" who rang me might see that and type it in!
<davmor2> SuperMatt: that is a bad command to teach novices
<SuperMatt> I know :) I would never teach novices that
<SuperMatt> TheOpenSourcerer: you mean the NSA guys?
<TheOpenSourcerer> OMG! is that who called me?
<SuperMatt> I wonder if there's anything that can be done to inject code in to their servers
<TheOpenSourcerer> Almost certainly if you know you the right people.
<davmor2> SuperMatt: But why would you inject code into the "World Wide Web Server" you would bring down the net ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Maybe that is his secret plan...
<SuperMatt> you're on to me!
 * SuperMatt flees
<SuperMatt^Totall> dang
<mungbean> ding
<SuperMatt^Totall> that was supposed to say TotallyNotHere
<popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1kvhmz/whats_the_best_programming_joke_that_you_know/ is fun
<bigcalm> popey: I want my afternoon back!
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> "That's not theft, that's creative re-appropriation without proper citation. All programmers do it."
<bigcalm> Very true, though I do try to cite the source when using a verbatim fix
<ali1234> "Let's push it back up the hill and see if it does it again." - truth
<bigcalm> One for davmor2 "A testing engineer walks into a bar. Runs into a bar. Crawls into a bar. Dances into a bar. Tiptoes into a bar. Rams into a bar. Jumps into a bar. Slides into a bar. Stumbles into a bar. Looks at a bar"
<bigcalm> "A project manager is a person who thinks nine women can deliver a baby in one month" - this makes me sad because it is true :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: That's just not funny, There's no description of the bar, the climate, what's on the bar, and you forgot reverses, skips and hops ;)
 * bigcalm claws his way back to work
<mungbean> brilliant
<mungbean> What's the best thing thing about UDP jokes?
<mungbean> I don't care if you get them
<mungbean> upvotes all round
<davmor2> bigcalm: I don't believe you :P
<ali1234> elementary is pretty good...
<bigcalm> The Sherlock rip-off?
<davmor2> ali1234: get you coat, get it now, never come back :D
<ali1234> no the OS
<davmor2> ali1234: okay your forgiven my head was working like bigcalm 's
 * bigcalm shudders at the very idea
<bigcalm> They have a nice looking website
<bigcalm> I like how the footer is hiding
<popey> hm. i have this manky chinese tablet, SmartQ T20
<popey> looks like it will never get any software updates
<popey> http://en.smartdevices.com.cn/Support/Downloads/T20/
<popey> last one at the beginning of the year
<popey> they haven't released kernel sources for anything, proprietary blob for gpu...
<bigcalm> popey: the Kogan POS was throw away as soon as I got it
<popey> not much i can do with it really, other than use what's on it, i mean, can't put vm on it
<popey> s/vm/cm/
<popey> performance is okay
<Nafallo> popey: that phone you linked at will be android :-(
<popey> what phone?
<ali1234> the new indiegogo thing
<Nafallo> ^--
<ali1234> that one that's got like $7 so far
<Nafallo> the linca :-)
<popey> forgot it already â»
<popey> well yeah, of course it will
<Nafallo> unlocked bootloader though :-)
<ali1234> so it's a nexus 4?
<Nafallo> ali1234: the nexus isn't quadcore with 4GB ram and 128GB storage though? ;-)
<ali1234> so what?
<ali1234> it also exists
<Nafallo> heh
<ali1234> quad core ARM and 4GB is completely pointless for a phone
<ali1234> and nowhere near enough for a desktop
<Nafallo> I haven't tried ARM on the desktop, so no comment :-)
<ali1234> i haven't tried ARM on desktop but i've tried desktop on ARM: it sucks
<Nafallo> fair enough
<ali1234> this is how slow ARM chips are: the standard way to compile software for ARM is inside an ARM emulator on x86... and it's still faster
<Nafallo> x86_64 :-)
<ali1234> you can't even look at the maximum performance of the chips, because they can't run flat out constantly without melting
<ali1234> not inside a mobile phone that is
<Nafallo> also, I thought the main driver for compiling under qemu was /unstable hardware/ :-)
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> it's the same compiler, what difference would it make?
<ali1234> ideally we could use cross compilers, but too many pieces of software are not packaged properly, and fail to cross compile
<Nafallo> ehrm... development board vs. released HP server...
<ali1234> in that situation the alternatives are qemu, or real hardware
<Nafallo> big difference in hardware stability :-)
<ali1234> and it turns out qemu is faster
<Nafallo> because the compile doesn't gets reset mid-through five times? ;-)
<ali1234> why would it though?
<ali1234> development boards don't just randomly crash
<Nafallo> UNSTABLE HARDWARE
<Nafallo> ;-)
<ali1234> well, unless you overheat them
<Nafallo> heating wasn't the problem we had.
<Nafallo> immature hardware.
<ali1234> yeah, that's not a problem at all when you're developing for released consumer hardware
<Nafallo> they just wasn't up for being build machines :-P
<ali1234> well, quite
<Nafallo> sure, I believe that.
<Nafallo> but we didn't have that :-D
<popey> Moonshot!
<Nafallo> not sure there even was released  hardware, other than smartbooks :-)
<popey> AC100's â»
<ali1234> yeah, they were supposed to be the next big thing weren't they?
<Nafallo> heh, instead we got ultrabooks :-D
<ali1234> yeah... ultrabooks are actually good
<ali1234> the AC100 was a mostly empty laptop case with a mobile phone circuit board inside it
<popey> the x1 carbon is a very nice machine
<Nafallo> still. I really like the idea of running a phone as desktop.
<Nafallo> it's something I'd like to take with me :-)
<Nafallo> but then, firefox/chrome sync etc...
<ali1234> it's a good idea which is impossible with current technology and probably always will be due to the way desktop software constantly expands to consume whatever resources are available to it inside a 80cm x 80cm x 20cm box
<daftykins> in what situations do you travel to places where someone has a screen + kb/mouse spare that'd be easier than taking a small netbook/tablet?
<Nafallo> mitigates the problem a bit :-)
<Nafallo> daftykins: home â work â home
<ali1234> yeah that will be fun
<daftykins> hrmm
<ali1234> you know when you have to struggle to get your laptop to work on a projector?
<ali1234> it will be like that every day when you go to work
<daftykins> XD
<Nafallo> heh
<daftykins> plus there's the power issue
<Nafallo> unless they nail it ;-)
<ali1234> instead of making a cup of tea while you wait for the machine to boot, you'll spend 10 inutes crawling behind the desk looking for the hdmi cable
<Nafallo> daftykins: the dock would have power surely?
<daftykins> there was a dock? fair enough
<Nafallo> ali1234: dock...
<daftykins> i did not know that part
<ali1234> no, there wasn't a dock with ubuntu edge
<daftykins> in fairness you'd leave an HDMI hanging after the first time :D
<Nafallo> ehrm. I'm sure I read dock, but maybe I didn't.
<ali1234> just a hdmi connector and a mini usb that needs an adapter cable and a hub
<Nafallo> well, I would want a dock for it to be useful! :-)
<bashrc> Is the edge crowdsouring thing over now?
<ali1234> so you pretty much need to carry around a hdmi cable, usb hub, otg cable, power adapter, mouse, keyboard
<ali1234> if you're lucky you might find a hdmi TV wherever you are going
<ali1234> bashrc: yes, it's over
<Nafallo> bashrc: at least the first iteration is. with ~$20m to go.
<bashrc> so does that means the edge is go or nogo?
<ali1234> it failed
<bashrc> ah
<Nafallo> bashrc: it has no moneyz ;-)
<daftykins> not even half
<bashrc> it was a ridiculously ambitious fundraising goal
<bashrc> But it still seems likely that there will be UbuntuPhones before long
<Nafallo> it is?
<daftykins> Shuttleworth's response on the indiegogo site seemed to refer to them going ahead in 2014 anyway
<daftykins> whatever form that may be in
<Nafallo> haven't seen that
<bashrc> It's a no-brainer.  The full GNU/Linux is undoubtedly better than a kernel and a java stack
<daftykins> Nafallo: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge?c=activity
<ali1234> why?
<Nafallo> ehrm. didn't nokia try full linux already? :-)
<daftykins> bashrc: that's a rather bold statement
<Nafallo> daftykins: cheers
<ali1234> android is miles better than maemo ever was
<bashrc> Well, for instance you can't easily do development directly on Android
<ali1234> why would you even want to?
<bashrc> I would want to
<bashrc> because I do development
<bashrc> and it's kind of cumbersome having to use VMs or emulators
<ali1234> you don't need to do that though
<ali1234> the reason dev on a phone sucks is because a phone doesn't have a keyboard or a mouse or a big monitor
<bashrc> Presumably you would just plug a keyboard in, or use bluetooth or whatever
<ali1234> presumably? android already does this
<bashrc> yes, you can use keyboards with Android
<Nafallo> daftykins: interesting
<ali1234> the other reason deving on a phone sucks is because it takes forever to compile anything
<ali1234> see above ^
<popey> daftykins: we always said we were still making a phone whether the edge panned out or not
<bashrc> Probably true, but bound to be less of an issue over time
<Nafallo> ali1234: saying there is a reason you run android instead of say... gentoo? ;-)
<daftykins> popey: yeah i wasn't really getting at that, just confirming someone elses statement of the same
<bigcalm> Anybody here have experience of redis and/or resque? I'm getting an Errno::ENOMEM exception on a job but I have no idea what I can do about it
<ali1234> i used to use gentoo actually
<ali1234> it was too much work fixing it after every upgrade... so i switched to ubuntu
<daftykins> gentoo's a bit masochistic no?
<bashrc> Somewhere there is always a Gentoo box compiling
<ali1234> yeah, but it's handy for throwing up scratch testing environments
<ali1234> as long as you dn't want to use it long term
<Nafallo> I had someone advocating using gentoo on servers at a previous job.
<Nafallo> that was... *speechless*
<ali1234> well, there are worse choices
<diddledan_> I'm trying to get our gentoo servers migrated to something sane
<bashrc> Why not just use Arch? :-)
<Nafallo> - sorry, apache is too busy to serve your request because it's recompiling again!
<ali1234> recompiling constantly is pretty much unavoidable if you need to work on the latest code
<ali1234> if you wait for it to be packaged, nobody will accept your patches on a version that is 6 months out of date
<Nafallo> I prefer to let Canonical recompile constantly ;-)
<ali1234> not much good for production though
<Nafallo> ppa receipes :-)
<Nafallo> not that I use that mysef...
<ali1234> yeah, if you have multiple servers you will want some kind of custom repository
<ali1234> gentoo isn't great for that... it can be done but it's nowhere near as advanced as dpkg
<SuperEngineer> boo!
<diddledan> eek
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<daftykins> phew, diddledan took the brunt of that surprise
<diddledan> it's because I'm so well padded
<diddledan> i.e. fat
<SuperEngineer> [somebody's gotta be the fall guy! -or the padded guy?]
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> i'm loving the irony, there's a user in #ubuntu trying to install a newer version to some computers in a library, yet refuses to read links or research issues.
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: thought of putting that on #ubuntu [lol]
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: i told the person yeah :)
<DJones> I wonder if Steve Ballmer will be investigated for insider trading, he announces he's leaving MS and then sees his investment in MS shares increase in value by $750M
<daftykins> DJones: ;)
<daftykins> that'll make both Apple and MS run by people i don't sort of recognise as behind the brand
<daftykins> the times they are a-chaingin'
<daftykins> *changin' too
<diddledan> wait, baldhead is leaving microsoft?
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> in 12 months
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> is he resigning / retiring or is he being pushed?
<Nafallo> did he sign on to work for apple or something? ;-)
<diddledan> I would expect him to be under a long gardening leave if he wants to go anywhere else
<DJones> Would you want somebody who oversaw Windows 8, Windows Phone, Surface tablets etc? I don't think any of those could be called a success story.
<DJones> Maybe he's going to work for RIM & head up the Blackberry division
<daftykins> XD
<Nafallo> maybe nokia to sell windows phones :-P
<daftykins> nobody can save that trainwreck
<popey> oh I don't know â»
<popey> There's still a lot of good people at Nokia
<daftykins> i meant Blackberry
<daftykins> as the trainwreck, in case you meant mine
<popey> oh, thought you meant Nokia, yeah blackberry is a bit of a lost cause
<popey> it's funny how people say there's no room in the market for new mobile phone platforms
<popey> yet you look at the current lot utterly screwing things up
<daftykins> i don't really feel that they are?
<daftykins> how do you mean?
<popey> bb and nokia?
<daftykins> oh hardware companies
<popey> they were/are both software companies too
<popey> nokia has more than just windows phones
<DJones> My wife has just abandoned her Blackberry and gone back to a 3 year old HTC Desire, she eventually got fed up with it constantly crashing, apps not working & having a pathetic battery life
<SirCrispinTheJew> 47,000 of the 120,000 apps for BB are from one developer, apparently.
<popey> i met a guy at the pub who is holding out with his HTC Hero
<SirCrispinTheJew> 47,000 fart apps, sound boards and website wrappers.
<popey> rocking android 2.2 or something
<SirCrispinTheJew> The Hero is about 6 months newer than the HTC Desire.
<SirCrispinTheJew> I got a Desire in March 2010 - it's still useful as a secondary PAYG phone.
<popey> i found the hero very frustrating
<popey> music would stutter when a notification comes in
<popey> it was a really gutless phone
<popey> would probably run firefox os okay tho ã
<DJones> I've said I'll swap my S3 for the Desire next week once I pick up an N7, 99% of what I use the S3 for will be taken over by the tablet, so all I'll need is something for the occasional phone call
<daftykins> :) original vanilla HTC Desire?
<DJones> Sorry, Desire HD
<daftykins> ah mines the ancient original :D it solely serves alarm clock duty now
<DJones> May looks at rooting it though & putting something else on
<daftykins> and due to that does over 16 days battery :O
<mungbean> i use my htc desire fulltime
<mungbean> solid workhorse
<mungbean> zinio sent me a $10 voucher to spend on magazine(s) \o/
<daftykins> it's stuck on such an outdated android version though
<daftykins> and has the major design flaw of only a 150MB /data partition
<daftykins> so you can't have more than a handfull of apps
<daftykins> modifications can let you get around that and install to the SD card, yes, but my word does it run slowly then
<daftykins> so you can either have a phone that delays to the point of tearing your hair out - or no apps and fastish
<mungbean> yes, very slow
<mungbean> i have that, and the wife is still on regular CM
<mungbean> hers flies
<SuperEngineer> bfn
<DJones> I think I need to do some research to see what I can put on a desire hd and it still be functional
<mungbean> desire hd prob has more internal storage
<DJones> I did read something that HTC refused to upgrade the HD to jelly bean saying it didn't have enough space, then somebody else released an unofficial port that had about 70Mb free after install
<mungbean> whats this about sourceforge and malware?
<mungbean> http://www.gluster.org/2013/08/how-far-the-once-mighty-sourceforge-has-fallen/
<mungbean> ah, emotive language. its not malware per se but crapware laden installers
<daftykins> DJones: if it has less than 1GB RAM, don't try and run 4.0+
<daftykins> that's the main rule i live by
<popey> \o/ more ebay auctions finishing
<popey> hmm, macbook pro seems unwell
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6019337/
<popey> graphical corruption
<popey> suspect overheating
<daftykins> popey: have you got one of the AMD graphics based ones that the recall just started on? 2011 model i think
<daftykins> i'm guessing 'NVDA' == no :D
<hamitron> grrrr
<hamitron> is there a trick to open "Update Manager"?
<diddledan> hamitron, close it first
<diddledan> then open it manually
<hamitron> nice one, ty
<hamitron> that has been annoying me for months
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> but didn't wanna ask such a simple question
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> is that when it opens on the dock/bar/something ?
<diddledan> yeah, I've seen bug reports of similar issues but none actually on this issue - we were talking about it in here the other day
<daftykins> sorta minimised?
<hamitron> daftykins, yeh
<hamitron> auto starts like that
<daftykins> how quirky
<daftykins> well, to be stuck, i mean
<hamitron> I've been meaning to slim down my install and remove it
<diddledan> <OT> erm. itunes is being funky: "your itunes library is now available in icloud. no songs are available in icloud."
<hamitron> but it is just too easy to never bother and struggle on
 * popey blames chrome
<popey> reinstalled chrome, wiped chrome profile, not crashed since
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-24
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> something has gone a bit wrong on saucy with my screen http://ubuntuone.com/7Zlk6LDTPSb93xSVtmp3CP  happens when I scroll on browsers
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<Laney> why oh why is there no bacon
<brobostigon> :(
<Myrtti> because someone ATE it
<brobostigon> yumyum
<popey> \o/ bacon
<MooDoo> morning all
<Myrtti> meh, I've decided I need to do a spreadsheet about different laptops
<Myrtti> because otherwise I'll just waffle about and spend my time complaining instead of actually deciding
<czajkowski> Laney: Ive bacon here :)
<czajkowski> nyommy byommy bacon and a bucket of tea :)
<Myrtti> is it just me, or am I missing out on something, but
<Myrtti> if you don't consider customer loyalty to a certain brand
<Myrtti> it almost looks like the Dell Ubuntu laptop is about the best price/quality ratio laptop that can do Linux without a hitch
<penguin42> how do you measure quality?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: with a qualometer?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Of course!
<Myrtti> penguin42: features, chassis material
<Laney> czajkowski: FEED ME
<czajkowski> Laney: I can send you 20 eggs will that do :)
<Laney> lolz, i have quite a lot of those
<Laney> not that i'd turn down more
<czajkowski> say hello to my new evil bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1216252
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1216252 in xf86-video-intel "scrolling in chrome leads to distorted images" [Medium,In progress]
<Laney> fun
<czajkowski> Laney: yes but mine were just laid today :)
<Laney> 20 in one day?
<czajkowski> nam
<czajkowski> Nha
<czajkowski> we got 4 today
<czajkowski> 3 yesterday
<czajkowski> 4 the other day
<czajkowski> etc
<czajkowski> bah medium
<czajkowski> that bug is so more annoying than a medium bug!
<Laney> hey at least the upstream guy is on it
<Laney> that's a good sign
<Laney> Subject: Your contribution to âUbuntu Edgeâ has been refunded
<Laney> :'(
<czajkowski> Laney: aye it is good
<czajkowski> it's gotten so bad in the last week it's driving me crazy
<czajkowski> I've found by hitting print screen
<Laney> does firefox have the problem?
<czajkowski> it makes it reset itself sometimes
<czajkowski> never use FF
<czajkowski> lemmie go and see
<Laney> i bet i have to phone halifax to get the money back to my current account from me credit card
<czajkowski> Laney: nope nothing there
<Laney> nothing what?
<czajkowski> no issues on FF
<Laney> ah
<Laney> well there's your workaround :-)
<Laney> i'm off to look at suits / watch alan partridge
<Laney> ttyl
<penguin42> when a PSU says it's got a 20+4 connector and a 1x4 pin CPU connector, does that mean it can power a PSU that takes a 24 pin plug?
<hamitron> penguin42, yes
<hamitron> the 20+4 means it is 24 pin connector, but 4 can be removed to fit a 20 pin socket
<mungbean> you were called today by 01210 000 000 00 grrrrr
<mungbean> how do they fake caller id?
<mungbean> "no sir this is not a spam call, this is an information call"
<ali1234> mungbean: voip
<mungbean> scummers
<mungbean> also v high incidence of failed calls with voip
<ali1234> that's due to the way call centre pooling works
<ali1234> they keep a certain number of phones ringing constantly so that there is never any gap between them
<mungbean> yeah :(
<ali1234> but this means if you answer really fast there will be nobody ready to talk to you
<mungbean> i used to get some at 4am
<hamitron> :/
<mungbean> has anyone seen the social netowrk film
<hamitron> they always hang up before the call is put through to me
<mungbean> i had a failed call 20 mins earlier
<mungbean> which is why i knew to be prepared for the next call
<ali1234> the computer system knows if you answer when there's no operator ready
<mungbean> he opened his mouth hello Sir "NO SPAM CALLS"
<ali1234> so it just drops the call and dials someone else
<ali1234> rather than keep the line blocked
<hamitron> prepared? with a whistle? ;)
<mungbean> next time
<mungbean> i have young baby, dashing to phone could be during a feed or a nappy
<SuperEngineer> a while back I had a spam call - the bloke took impolite objection to my polite objection - so I informed him his companies number was stored on the [landline] phone - and I was recording the conversation - haven't had a spam call since that day :)
<mungbean> im surprised a call centre monkey would care
<SuperEngineer> this idiot did
<SuperEngineer> [I try to have sympathy with them and be polite with refusal/goodbye as my daughter got conned on a part job when younger - she ended up working in a call centre for a newspaper
<mungbean> wow its raining really hard
<SuperEngineer> ...daughter ended up working in one
<SuperEngineer> mungbean - no it's not! I just checked
<mungbean> doggie wants a walk but she wont when im out
<mungbean> and i need to put sugru on my welly
 * peng42phone waits at train station having just bought bits for a new Nat box
<peng42phone> and as always I bought a sata cable to find there were some in the mboard box
<mungbean> 3rd spam phone call of the day ..this time while i was in the loft
<mungbean> lucky i didn't rush
<peng42phone> You registered on tps?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> indian spammers dont care, strangely
<mungbean> i think the caller id was 90210
<peng42phone> Ah yeh
<mungbean> my wife spent a load on baby clothes we needed to buy, and then i found them in the loft :(
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: sure it wasn't a knat box?
<peng42phone> Well it's too big to be,a gnat box, I wouldn't know about a knat
<SuperEngineer> mungbean: ever thought of getting a phone with profiles available - i.e. put all knowns in a profole set to ring - all others, no notification etc
<SuperEngineer> *profilr
<SuperEngineer> damn numb finger!
<SuperEngineer> p-r-o-f-i-l-e-s
<MartijnVdS> pro files?
<peng42phone> I'd prefer prof iteroles
<SuperEngineer> mmmmm... profiteroles
<SuperEngineer> [hungry now!]
<MartijnVdS> profit eroles?
 * SuperEngineer loves profit
<SuperEngineer> [but not so keen on eroles]
<MartijnVdS> aagh.. "spicy chicken mix" really means "SPICY chicken mix"
<MartijnVdS> e-roles
<SuperEngineer> :)
<MartijnVdS> thank the flying spaghetti monster for milk 8-)
<mungbean> SuperEngineer: house phone?
<mungbean> maybe i should turn the house phone ringer off and never give my number
<SuperEngineer> mungbean: yup
<mungbean> its the dumbest of dumb house phones
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: one with the rotary dials?
<mungbean> :P
<mungbean> they are probably quite Â£Â£ now
<SuperEngineer> mungbean: that nullifies that idea then
<MartijnVdS> my brother has one
<MartijnVdS> had to buy some kind of adapter to convert the pulses back into tones, because his voice providers uses VOIP, on a DOCSIS modem that doesn't understand pulse dialing
<MartijnVdS> provider*
<MartijnVdS> also, it didn't put enough power on the line to ring the ringer 8-)
<peng42phone> Mungbean: there are some boxes you can buy that sit inline that do selective ringing and/or menus
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
<MartijnVdS> this Monday: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0394dg0
<MartijnVdS> for those who didn't listen to the radio version :)
<MartijnVdS> and who do like the Doctor
<mungbean> backing up the tv box over usb 1 , taking forever
<mungbean> 2Mbytes/s
<MartijnVdS> usb 1 :(
<mungbean> loads of updates to my 12.04 to do :S
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: don't run saucy if you think that's a lot ;)
<mungbean>  more /etc/issue
<mungbean> Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS \n \l
<mungbean> hmmm
<mungbean> seem to have missed .2 somewhere
<mungbean> 574 upgraded, 11 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<mungbean> Need to get 765 MB of archives.
<mungbean> After this operation, 368 MB of additional disk space will be used.
<SuperEngineer> wish me kuck folks - gonna update nVidea driver to 319 [recommended] from current 304 - any warnings known, pleaseshout now
<SuperEngineer> *luck
<SuperEngineer> ok - here goes - bbs [hopefully]
<MartijnVdS> BBS -> back to the old days :)
 * mungbean wonders if its worth getting hte raring kernel
<mungbean> why does chrome write to disk so much when not even touching th ebrowser?
<penguin42> is pretty amazed how little my P90 uses
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: the NSA requires it.
<mungbean> some truth in that
<mungbean> sudo sh -c "echo 'manual' > /etc/init/SERVICE.override"
<MartijnVdS> uh.. wut?
<mungbean> that is how to disable upstart stuffs? thats ugly
<penguin42> that's ludicrously low
<SuperEngineer> phew! safe - still got x running [much better than last time driver udated when x died afterwards]
<SuperEngineer> ...dare I now go go driver with post release updates me wonders
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> double or quits
<SuperEngineer> munbean - ok, [&once again - bbs - hope]
<SuperEngineer> ;)
 * penguin42 doubts his new machine will beat the 47W of his 19 year old P90
<mungbean> doing my massive dist-upgrade with only 3% left :S
<mungbean> of disk space
<penguin42> 3%  of what though?
<mungbean> need to delte some kernels if this works
<mungbean> /
<mungbean> = /var /boot /etc /usr
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: atom + SSD ;)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: maybe a NUC
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: NUC under load: 27W ;)
<MartijnVdS> D33217CK
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: OK, that's interesting - I've bought what I believe is the same CPU in the NUCs - dual core 1.1GHz Celeron
<mungbean> my first job in '96 used a compaq p90
<penguin42> this P90 (through which this conversation is being NATd) was bought in '94
<MartijnVdS> my first real PC was a 486-DX4-100 because a P90 was too expensive
<MartijnVdS> clocked at 133
<mungbean> haven't switched my desktop pc on in yonks
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Yeh I think it cost me ~Â£2k in '94 including a 17" liyama monitor
<MartijnVdS> iiyama had the best
<penguin42> first job, disembowl the P400's chassis that I'm going to reuse the case from
<mungbean> i throw away 5 years old machines all the time
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I just got another 5 year old machine to "fix"
<MartijnVdS> i.e. rescue all data, reinstall OS
<mungbean> down to 193MB
<mungbean> finger hovering over rm command
<mungbean> argh
<mungbean> [no carrier]
<MartijnVdS> +++ATZ
<SuperEngineer>  double phew - nVidea updated - still got x [unlike last time].
<SuperEngineer> Bonus - Steam has stopped whinging about getting me to "experimental" - at last!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: whoa!
<SuperEngineer> thinking about Steam - any tried "Larry reloaded" [on Ubuntu] from Steam yet?
<MartijnVdS> that exists on Ubuntu?!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Spending â¬ now
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: that's exactly what I was wondering
<mungbean> or that game where you are snooping around the house?
<mungbean> the new one
<mungbean> gone home?
<mungbean> http://store.steampowered.com/app/232430/
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it installs fine
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: wee
 * SuperEngineer is about to spend as well
<MartijnVdS> aaand.. done installing
<MartijnVdS> â« Fibre-man, Fibre-man
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: is it under wine or native?
<mungbean> lots of linux games now
<MartijnVdS> native, I think
<SuperEngineer> weeee
<MartijnVdS> it starts with the DOS soundtrack!
<mungbean> i accidentally bought frak 69 for a friend when i was young (well my dad bougt it)
<mungbean> i had frak
<mungbean> we didn't realise frak 69 used a willie instead of a yoyo
<mungbean> :-|
<ali1234> wat
<mungbean> i was 10yrs old
<SuperEngineer> lol
<mungbean> i just thought it was the commdore version of a family favourite
<daubers> lo
<daubers> Don't suppose AlanBell is around is he?
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - this'll be interesting... had to try 3 times to purchase Larry [forgot to tick the agree to Steam's t&c" box - I wonder if I get get charged once or thrice
<SuperEngineer> wee
<SuperEngineer> whoopee! only once!
<mungbean> can someone check the size of their pm-powersave and pm-suspend logs in /var/log?
<SuperEngineer> [well done Steam /PP]
<SuperEngineer> bbs [yet again... need to switch to Â£G dongle to download Larry - 10x faster than my "borrowed" connxn!  ;)
<zleap> high flying teddy http://ssdv.habhub.org/
<DJones> mungbean: pm-suspend.log is 0 and pm-powersave.log is 130606
<mungbean> quite large
<DJones> mungbean: More specifically http://pastebin.com/582jyM6s
<DJones> I don't use suspend, so that probably explains the 0
<mungbean> o bytes disk space during dist-upgrade is bad :(
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - bigger disk needed - or ppre-warnings might be a damn site better!
<popey> Afternoon
<Myrtti> <george weasley>evening</george weasley>
<penguin42> hey popey
<SuperEngineer> does anyone know of a better way of removing Left for Dead 2 beta from Steam other than downloading it and then "remove all local content"- currently downloading 11.5 gig of unwanted stuff! [already have the non-beta game installed on Steam]
 * SuperEngineer copies & pastes last to #ubuntu-steam
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: OK, this box is running 20-21W in the Ubuntu alternate installer
<MartijnVdS> nice
<daftykins> i was down south on the island today
<daftykins> took this nice little panorama of some Guernsey Cows
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jkl5zykebek9niy/PANO_20130824_153423.jpg
<SuperEngineer> started downloading a purchased game - stopped it after advice* - deleted local content - but available disc space has fallen by 6G! How do I reclaim this disk space?
<SuperEngineer> [* game was Left For Dead 2 Beta - I already have the non-beta version & perfectly satisfied with it].
<SuperEngineer> Disk space should be freed - not kept!
<shauno> you buy disks to not use them?
<hamitron> SuperEngineer, .Trash?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: nice one
<hamitron> SuperEngineer, ~/.local/share/Trash
<SuperEngineer> hamitron: now that's an idea
<hamitron> could maybe be in temp storage for a torrent client, if you used that method :)
<SuperEngineer> hamitron: not a torrent - and nah - ~/.local/share/Trash = 12.5kB
<hamitron> how did you download and delete it?
<SuperEngineer> hamitron: download via Steam App - paused, stopped , removed "all local content"
<SuperEngineer> rebooted to see if space was still held - and it was
<hamitron> ah, I've known steam leave stuff on windows
<hamitron> not sure about the linux client, worth checking manually?
<SuperEngineer> been doing that and hunting - can't find a sausage!
<hamitron> :/
<SuperEngineer> except this descrepency http://paste.ubuntu.com/6022613/
<SuperEngineer> "." does not add up!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: note your .local
<hamitron> yeh, is .local that big usually?
<hamitron> haha
<SuperEngineer> nope
<hamitron> "~/.local/share/Steam by default"
<hamitron> grrrr
<hamitron> wish my amp on my motherboard would go louder for my front headphones port
<penguin42> turn it up to 11?
<hamitron> I can't have it at 100%
<hamitron> get distortion
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> well, for some songs anyway
<hamitron> no worries, will just encourage me to get my amp repaired so i don't use these ports
<hamitron> (another external amp, that is)
 * bigcalm waddles in from Cafe Rouge
<mungbean> how do i make unity faster on older PC? change active blur to ??
<mungbean> anything else?
<bigcalm> Replace the HDD with an SSD
<mungbean> wow, static blur is extremely odd
<mungbean> shows windows i had open some time ago
<mungbean> bug 873076
<lubotu3> bug 873076 in compizconfig-settings-manager (Ubuntu) "Transparency with Static Blur in Unity Plugin Does Not Work" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873076
<mungbean> This package has been removed from Ubuntu. Closing all related bugs.
<mungbean> wut
<hamitron> mungbean, remove it?
<hamitron> unity I mean
<hamitron> ;)
<mungbean> shared pc
<mungbean> but when i recover some disk space i'm about to switch my last remaining pc to elementary desktop
<penguin42> elementary?
<hamitron> looks like Mac? :/
<mungbean> in some respects
<mungbean> although no global menu
<mungbean> or craziness of ideas employed by gnome shell
<mungbean> is the most enjoyable linux since i switched to ubuntu ~2005/6
<mungbean> and v fast
<penguin42> url?
<mungbean> http://elementaryos.org/
<hamitron> think I'm going to give win8 a go on a non-touch desktop
<mungbean> haha
<hamitron> see what all this fuss is about
<mungbean> you will vomit and kill yourself
<mungbean> and smash something
<hamitron> well, I like windows phones and win8 on a touch screen laptop
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> do suspect it may feel un-natural with no touch display
<hamitron> but it has better multi-monitor stuff than win7
<hamitron> but I'm happier now my main rig is stable, with all memory installed
<hamitron> vmware here I come
<hamitron> tbh, to get what I want from an OS, would mean spending a lot of time putting together what I want
<ali1234> win8 isn't really all that interesting
<hamitron> and I really cba
<ali1234> imagine windows 7 with start menu removed
<ali1234> then imagine every 5 minutes a weird full screen thing that you don't understand pops up
<ali1234> that's basically it
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I like that
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> the modern start menu has got too cluttered anyway
 * hamitron likes LXDE
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> well metro is about 100 times more cluttered
<ali1234> but they made it look "not cluttered" by removing all the text
<ali1234> so now it's a mess of icons
<hamitron> on my laptop, I don't use the desktop that often tbh
<hamitron> more like a tablet with a keyboard
<hamitron> it works well for that
<ali1234> how do you do anything at all?
<hamitron> what you mean?
<ali1234> how do you do anything at all on windows without using the desktop?
<hamitron> it is for basic day-to-day things
<ali1234> like for example, visit a web page
<hamitron> email, web browsing, word processing
<ali1234> the version of win8 i used, IE opened on the desktop
<ali1234> metro did nothing at all
<ali1234> except serve as a start menu replacement
<hamitron> it can do, or it can run metro style
<hamitron> I use the IE touch interface
<hamitron> http://news.softpedia.com/images/extra/NEWS/large/iemetro.jpg
<hamitron> I wouldn't mind knowing a good linux Desktop for touch displays
<ali1234> android
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I hate android
<hamitron> have never got the hang of it, the times I've played
<hamitron> I miss the tiles from windows phone
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> lol
<hamitron> if I used it for a longer period of time, I may get used to it I suppose
<hamitron> I did try android x86 on my laptop for a few hours too
<hamitron> but too basic for a rig like that
<ali1234> i don't think i've used my laptop even once since i got a nexus 7
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> well, I was torn between the nexus 7 and the asus vivobook
<hamitron> I went vivobook, thinking I can still run normal pc apps
<hamitron> plus a keyboard
<hamitron> this was before I had tasted win8
<hamitron> I'm sure the nexus 7 will be better for more people
<hamitron> just not me :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-25
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<SuperEngineer> o/
 * SuperEngineer watches BTCC in prep for Grand Prix coverage
<SuperEngineer> [it's far more interesting than searching for where Steam nicked my disk space] ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: ~/.steam probabl
<MartijnVdS> or ~/.local/share/Steam
<SuperEngineer> been hunting in both - can't find the4 [5?] GB it nickeed after cancelling a download
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: check using 'baobab'
<SuperEngineer> [seemed to reserve space somehow and not release it]
<SuperEngineer> baobab - heard of that [and not just the tree]
<SuperEngineer> oh - du - been using that in x and in CLI
<SuperEngineer> [to no joy]
<SuperEngineer> Steam taking 33GB [18 installed games though]  ;)
<SuperEngineer> [but baobab is an extremely appropriate name for dua]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: there should be a temp file, or a directory withthe name of the download you cancelled
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: http://imagebin.org/268726 it's somewhere is Left for Dead...
<MartijnVdS> somewhere in the steam dir
<SuperEngineer> started downloading beta which is now live - cancelled it [already have non-beta & happy with it]
<SuperEngineer> ho hum - nearly F1 time - that'll take my mind off it!
<MartijnVdS> F1!
<SuperEngineer> Belgium GP coverage starts 12.10 BBC1
<SuperEngineer> race starts in 50 mins
<SuperEngineer> ..and here comes the theme music!
<SuperEngineer> phew! just started  a steam game directly from the .exe file... wrong!  killed output to monitor
<MartijnVdS> .exe file?!
<SuperEngineer> [fortunately it was showing on HDMI on tv... very wrong resolution - but enough to do a clean a shut down
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: yup - found that in the Left for Dead folder
<MartijnVdS> weird.. but probably best for consistency to name the executable that everywhere
<SuperEngineer> hmmm
<SuperEngineer> [also found the Left for Dead folder has a Left for Dead folder inside it!
<SuperEngineer> messy
<SuperEngineer> Anyone here have Left FOr Dead installed under Steam - a comparison would be wonderful right now ;)
<MartijnVdS> 1 or 2 ?
<SuperEngineer> F1 race -5 folks
<MartijnVdS> yeah, just got the official intro :)
<brobostigon> ST4 voyage home, ch4 2.30pm, :)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: 2
<MartijnVdS> would have been there, but camping is NOT for me
<MartijnVdS>  + sunburn
<MartijnVdS>  + feeling bad overall
<MartijnVdS>   = early drive home
<brobostigon> glamping would be more for me, i like my bath, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yeah, if I go again, it'll be race-day only, and sleeping in a hotel
<MartijnVdS> and with friends
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> oh well, I have some photos and videos
<MartijnVdS> (see G+)
<MartijnVdS> had a walk around the circuit on Friday
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: which directory do you want to compare?
<MartijnVdS> [zo 14:00] :) martijn@desktop:~/.../share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Left 4 Dead 2$ ls
<MartijnVdS> bin         hl2        left4dead2       left4dead2_dlc3  platform
<MartijnVdS> argh!
<MartijnVdS> config      hl2_linux  left4dead2_dlc1  left4dead2.exe   steam_appid.txt
<MartijnVdS> meant to paste the pastebin link
<MartijnVdS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6024809/
<MartijnVdS> stupid chromeos
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: just wonering if the  'Left For Dead 2' dir has a 'leftfordead2' dir in it
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: see the paste
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: thanks - it's identical
<SuperEngineer> p.s. next time I find a tent with abath attached... I'll let you know  ;)
<MartijnVdS> almost halfway already
<SuperEngineer> ..and still no rain
<MartijnVdS> :( they predicted 16mm a few days ago
<SuperEngineer> yup
<SuperEngineer> [methinks the 2 Brits wanted the rain]
<SuperEngineer> ...rain meisters both
<MartijnVdS> Good at driving on twisty roads while it's raining? They must be Brits ;)
<MartijnVdS> where else do you get the practice
<SuperEngineer> ..they all learnt to drive with 1 hand on steering wheel & 1 hand carrying an umbrella
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: on B roads in Cornwall?
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: lol
<SuperEngineer> and that coming together is what is technically called a "whoopsie" ;)
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<SuperEngineer> *is <-> technically  [v. bad grammar - slaps own wrist]
 * mgdm thinks your corrected version sounds wrong
<SuperEngineer> mgdm: "is what is"??!!  that's good?  nah! next you'll be telling me you "finks ya corrected version sounds wrong, know what I mean"
<mgdm> I'm from nearly as far away as you can be from Essex while staying in the UK, and think that accent sounds like chewing tinfoil, so no :-)
<SuperEngineer> mgdm: gawd bless ya cotton socks mate
<SuperEngineer> ;)
 * mgdm wonders what accent that's meant to be :)
<SuperEngineer> cockerney
<mgdm> ah! hehe
<MartijnVdS> not Somersetese? ;)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: nope - that would be "bless yeer cotton socks madear" ;
<SuperEngineer> [or - "no, officer, honestly... I found the venison - it just dropped dead front in of I"  ;)
<SuperEngineer> why doesn't the helicopter cutting the corners & going "off track" get a stop/go penalty!
<MartijnVdS> only a few more laps!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: those helicopters (2!) are scary to watch
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: those pilots must be insane
<mgdm> SuperEngineer: last time they had a car with a big fan on, it got banned
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: yup - best view & best fun on the circuit
<MartijnVdS> "What's your job?" "Oh, I fly around F1 circuits in a helicopter, just above the tree tops"
<SuperEngineer> mgdm: that was 1 of the helos!  it was running low on fuel ;)
<MartijnVdS> he must be a hit at parties ;)
<mgdm> Yeah, the Tyrell Apache
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: "Oh, I try to fly around F1 circuits in a helicopter, just above the tree tops- whoops!!!!"
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: it was the hellfire missiles that made them ban it, not the fan.
 * brobostigon puts ch4 on, 
<MartijnVdS> but.. only 1 more lap of f1!
 * brobostigon waits.
<shauno> I bet the secret is they're just trying to troll the cameraman
<SuperEngineer> mgdm: had 2 Apaches land for fuel at local airport last week... "anyone want to pick an argunment" was the most common phrase
<mgdm> hehe
<mgdm> a Navy Sea King appeared from behind the building beside my flat last night
<mgdm> that was surprising
<mgdm> silence to WHOMP WHOMP WHOMP
<shauno> they're not known for being sneaky
<MartijnVdS> the whomping willow!
<SuperEngineer> followed by Sea King pilot going "hey, who nicked the sea?!"
<SuperEngineer> Has Hamilton changed his name to Vettel?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: only on weekends
<SuperEngineer> lol
<shauno> we used to get sea kings flying low quite often because we were far too close to the helipad at the local hospital  (south lakes, so coastguard+mountain rescue double-whammy).  we used to joke that we shouldn't have made the extension a flat roof :/
<mgdm> hehe
<mgdm> the Clyde Heliport is nearby
<mgdm> though not where I saw the Sea King
 * brobostigon now stwitches to ch4.
<SuperEngineer> other interesting facts re local airport... 2 crashes in as many days!
<mgdm> o_O
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: con-TROLL-ing
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: (from the con-troll tower)
<SuperEngineer> oh - now there's a nice thought - conning trolls... mmmm
<SuperEngineer> patent trollls & bullies doubly so
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's the reverse of the "419 baiter"
<SuperEngineer> mgdm: channel4? what, miss the Suzi Perry/Eddie Jordon comedy hour?
<mgdm> SuperEngineer: I'm not on ch4, that's brobostigon
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: 419 baiter? [/me looks up phrase]
<MartijnVdS> Star Trek IV: Free Willy?
<SuperEngineer> mgdm: forgiven ;)
<brobostigon> i think i would rather watch one of the best star treks films, to be honest.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: voyage home, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: the one with the whales, right?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: hence "Free Willy"
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i understood the joke, it was funny, :)
<SuperEngineer> ...but there was only 1 whale - poor sod
<mgdm> there were 2
<brobostigon> yep, there were two.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Close Encounters (of the 3rd kind) on Five later on
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: also cool :)
<SuperEngineer> ... there was 1 - then 2 - then 4 - then 16..... :D
<shauno> (Â±petunias)
<brobostigon> HHGTTG
<brobostigon> magrathea.
<brobostigon> above magrathea.*
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ah... *now* I understand 419 baiter
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's trolling conners, instead of conning trolls :)
<SuperEngineer> yup
<shauno> I remember reading something that advocated spam filters should be trying to do that automatically
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: Douglas A - RIP
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: yes. huge shame, before his time.
<SuperEngineer> [I wonder what that thing approaching.... ;)
<shauno> the logic was that most of these 'nigerian princes' are meant to be absurdly obvious, because it results in a very narrow, gullible, self-selecting response rate
<SuperEngineer> life.. don't talk to about about life... here I am, brain the size of a planet..." - use that whwn a customer really bores me
<SuperEngineer> ...thgey usually go quiet afer that
<shauno> and that having spam filters try to start conversations with the spammers would completely destroy the effort:result ratio at the spammer's end
<SuperEngineer> ...F1 is a woinderful thing - takes one's mind off current computer "problem" [non-problem as it turns out]
 * SuperEngineer is embarrassed
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: thanks for the help & suggestions re Steam disk loss - it is solved
<brobostigon> large bag of crisps, beer and a good film, what more can you ask for, :)
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: a yacht, a helicopter, a fast car...
<SuperEngineer> ...and Eddie Jordan
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: those are all too expensive.
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: dunno - never - bought an Eddie Jordan!
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: i was indirectly referring to the cost of sky tv.
<SuperEngineer> lol
 * penguin42 wonders if there is any way of delaying the start of a program in session startup
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: don't start it in auto - start manual?  serious
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I'm looking at a bootchart of my dads machine; one of the things thrashing the disk during login is update-notifier/apt - which I do want to autostart, but it could do with sitting back and taking it gently while the user logs in and gets on with their life
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: agreed
<penguin42> I flipped his machine to cfq (from deadline) and it does seem to have taken a few seconds off startup, but there are some dumb things I can see in the bootchart
<SuperEngineer> that reminds me - think it might be time to say bbs - own startup has been slowing recently - just installed bootchart [again]
<SuperEngineer> ...& MartijnVdS thanks for your help earlier
<MartijnVdS> np :)
 * mgdm is watching Star Trek IV: Where'd the Whales Go? on +1
<mgdm> I do have it on blu ray, somewhere
 * penguin42 offers his mouse to mgdm
<AlanBell> o/ daubers
<MartijnVdS> A wild daubers appears?
<mgdm> penguin42: a mouse? :)
<penguin42> mgdm: Computer!
<mgdm> my computer doesn't have an optical drive
<mgdm> and I don't know of any online services that have the film
<mgdm> and it's on telly right now :)
<penguin42> mgdm: Just remember what I've said while you're watching it
<mgdm> penguin42: OOOOH
<mgdm> penguin42: I fail :(
<mgdm> sorry :(
<penguin42> hehe
<mgdm> wubwubwubwubwubwubwubwub
<Myrtti> WHY am I watching Premier League from telly? Boggle.
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: yes.. WHY
 * DJones sends the men in white coats to collect Myrtti 
<Myrtti> what
<Myrtti> another game straight after the first one?
<Myrtti> this is too much
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: you're obviously ill
 * Myrtti finally bothers to get the remote and turn the channel over
<MartijnVdS> one of those days eh
<mjayk> anybody here to to a LUG in the nw of the Uk?
<MartijnVdS> North-west of the UK, or north-west of just England? :)
<mjayk> ah :) England
<mjayk> yea i didnt say what i ment
<MartijnVdS> there's Manlug, ask penguin42 about that
<MartijnVdS> also http://lug.org.uk/lugs/north-west
<mjayk> i presume thats manchester
<mjayk> cheers
<penguin42> oh, sorry I was making dinner
<brobostigon> i am making a chilli for my gf tmrw evening, wish me luck.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you can do it :)
<brobostigon> i know i can, :). i have made ones for myself many times.
<daubers> AlanBell: o/ Still around?
<AlanBell> yes
<daubers> AlanBell: Is your's and the opensourcerers company an LLP? Or is it something else?
<AlanBell> it is a limited company
<AlanBell> llp is for accountants and soliciters
<daubers> Ah, fair enough :)
<brobostigon> limited liability
<daubers> I've been offered a share in an LLP, so I'm trying to find someone unrelated to it that runs one so I can get some insight into it
<AlanBell> hmm, interesting
<AlanBell> it doesn't have shares, that makes no sense
<mgdm> I came across an LLP that was an estate agents in a previous line of work, never heard of it for anything that wasn't in that sort of area
<AlanBell> you would have to be a partner, not a shareholder
<daubers> AlanBell: No, "share" is the wrong technical term. I would be a partner with a certain %age stake
<AlanBell> yup, that makes sense :O
<daubers> Sorry, business terminology still makes me confused
<daubers> (Still seems like a "share" to me, but I admit it's not "technically" correct)
<AlanBell> you probably need to talk to someone who knows a bit more about it than me :)
<AlanBell> I would be a bit wary about being a partner if you are not actually going to be a partner
<daubers> AlanBell: I would be a partner, I'd also be running it day to day
<AlanBell> in that case, it sounds appropriate
<daubers> Yeah. Might be a trip to the library for a day coming up
<mungbean> i'm new to wheely bins. anyone else get massive maggot infestation in this weather?
<popey> evening all
<popey> mungbean: not here
<mungbean> there are nappies in the bin:S
<mungbean> might not help
<popey> are they inside nappy bags?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> still. the bin gets opened quite a bit i guess
<mungbean> there were 3 flies on it the other day
<mungbean> bin opened...flies in = party
<MartijnVdS> stop hiding the bodies in those bins?
<mungbean> especially when bin men come and scuzz gets on the lid
<mungbean> my sister got a new laptop. 2 days later i'm cleaning off malware
<MartijnVdS> we have wheely bin cleaners here.. who come after the bin men and powerwash the inside
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: yay windows
<mungbean> already had MSSE installed but meh
<popey> yeah, we have those here
<mungbean> unsure if it came from an installer or  not as her husband had run system restore pt already
<popey> we have never had ours cleaned in ~12 years of living here
<mungbean> although malware remained
<MartijnVdS> heh.. the Dutch Dell XPS-13 "Ubuntu edition" page:
<MartijnVdS> UBUNTU: De beste prestaties met Windows 8 Pro
<MartijnVdS> ("Ubuntu: The best performance with Windows 8 Pro")
<popey> *sigh*
<AlanBell> Dell does it again
<mungbean> my bruv got good deal on a laptop though. 207Â£
<MartijnVdS> will there be a Haswell version eventually?
<popey> they tend to rev their hardware in autumn
<MartijnVdS> popey: which is now-ish :)
<MartijnVdS> or soon-ish anyway
<popey> but I suspect if sputnik is deemed "popular" inside Dell, they yeah
<popey> the ultrabook will get an update anyway, whether the sputnik build does or not.. who knows
<mungbean> there are laptops with a celeron 1.1ghz processor :|
<mungbean> called celron 847
<mungbean> seems to work ok for average joe
<shauno> it shouldn't be that bad.  it's a santa rosa dualcore.  probably plenty for mum-class laptops
<shauno> are, sandy bridge rather
<AlanBell> sputnik won't be deemed popular because they keep it in a locked filcabinet at the bottom of some broken stairs behind a web page that says beware of the leopard and Dell recommends windows 8
<mungbean> shauno: yeah, seems ok, except for the win8
<mungbean> they couldn't find anything, average users are so lost on it
<popey> AlanBell: not what i hear
<popey> internally it's got some praise
<Myrtti> I think I'll get the sputnik if everything works out
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/109175303602657131317/posts/2xmzkx9vBg5
<AlanBell> it is ridiculous how badly they describe it after so much time
<penguin42> AlanBell: Haha!
<popey> I notice AlanBell doesn't file bugs or contact people anymore, but just rants on G+
<Azelphur> isn't that how everything gets fixed
 * Azelphur runs
<AlanBell> better place for screenshots than IRC
<AlanBell> and I do file bugs
<AlanBell> I don't know where to file a bug about Dell's website though :)
<AlanBell> I don't encounter so many bugs with 13.10, but I did file some when I tried xmir
<popey> \o/ ship it
<AlanBell> yeah, everyone should run 13.10 it rocks
<AlanBell> xmir might be a bit early to run though, and I don't really know what the benefit of it is
<ali1234> well the thing about dell selling ubuntu laptops is...
<ali1234> nobody is going to be mislead by the website
<ali1234> except maybe a few people who buy ubuntu by mistake
<ali1234> because they think it has windows, because the website says it does
<ali1234> literally no one is going to go to the dell website and see "oh, laptops with ubuntu. i've never heard of that, so i'll spend $1200 on a laptop with an OS i know nothing about"
<AlanBell> true, which is probably one reason vendors are reluctant to sell Ubuntu laptops for less than the windows equivalent
<ali1234> there's no reason to even sell cmputers with ubuntu pre installed
<ali1234> you'll get exactly the same number of extra sales by selling them with no operating system
<AlanBell> yeah, we bought a novatech for that reason
<popey> depends on the region
<mgdm> blimey, gitlab really does look awfully like it was 'inspired by' Github
<popey> heh
<popey> i do enjoy gitlab
<AlanBell> it is a much easier thing to ask manufacturers to do, ship things without operating system
<AlanBell> or list the operating system as a separately priced option
<AlanBell> that Dell thing is shipping with "Ubuntu Edition version 12.04" first thing I would do is reinstall it with 13.10 and maybe add back the Dell tweaks
<AlanBell> shipping it blank would be just fine
<popey> laura has one and is using 12.04 on it
<popey> i know a few others who wiped and put 13.10 on it
<popey> sorry, 13.04
<penguin42> AlanBell: Dell will generally ship you any of their machines with FreeDOS on if you're a business customer (or would a few years back)
<penguin42> actually to be fair I never did try with laptops, but desktops and servers I did
<AlanBell> they wouldn't sell to me in a reasonable timescale last time I tried, so I went elsewhere and got a Samsung
<AlanBell> that was some years ago, I will try again next time I am in a laptop purchasing mood
<penguin42> AlanBell: Nod; but certainly must go through the business side - no chance with the customer people
 * bigcalm wanders in after a great weekend at his parents'
<AlanBell> penguin42: yeah, I did that, there was a whole comedy of purchase orders and proforma invoices and quotes and a 6 week lead time for something more expensive than the windows version
<AlanBell> or I could get the windows version for less money shipping next day. So I got a Samsung instead.
<AlanBell> timescale was a bigger deal than the price, but when it came to the fact I couldn't get a linux laptop within a week or so I just picked a good price/performance combination and that wasn't Dell
<penguin42> AlanBell: OK interesting, the desktops/servers they had nailed - we could normally get them within 2 or 3 days
<AlanBell> yeah, probably helps if you are an existing customer with a standard order
<penguin42> I used to buy a fair amount of stuff from them, but normally different; they could put arbitrary servers/cpu/ram/disk combinations together very quickly - but not done it for ~6 years
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-18
<Indeed> o.k
<daftykins> o rly
<Indeed> 1st time on this chat
 * zmoylan-pi prepares the branding iron :-p
<Indeed> :-)
<daftykins> fresh blood
<daftykins> and what can we do for you?
<zmoylan-pi> not if you brand them right... :-)
<Indeed> yeah, just working out this new O/S.
<daftykins> at almost 2am huh? dedication
<diddledan_> daftykins: you can do me for Â£5
<zmoylan-pi> or trying to get sound working...
<zmoylan-pi> or network...
<daftykins> diddledan_: suit you sir
<diddledan_> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> or uefi fun
<Indeed> 1:45 here. :-)
<daftykins> oh we love a good bit of UEFI here
<daftykins> Indeed: sure is
<Indeed> you U.K too?
<daftykins> almost
<Indeed> i see...
<diddledan_> bleeping foreigners!
<diddledan_> I wouldn't mind but you shirk all our VAT
<diddledan_> that's just taking the micky
 * zmoylan-pi puts on a nation once again âª
<daftykins> sure but i have to put up with being called French
<diddledan_> true, that's quite an insult
<Indeed> french?
<daftykins> nevermind (:
<Indeed> o.k then, what is UEFI then?
<daftykins> Indeed: do you have any support questions then?
<popey> Is that the time!
<diddledan_> I always have trouble with those backwards emoticons - they're the wrong way around, damnit
<daftykins> bad popey!
<daftykins> lol
<popey> i thought imagemagick would compile faster than this
<popey> clearly not
<popey> welcome to the madhouse Indeed
<diddledan_> popey: whatcha compiling it for?
<diddledan_> .deb ftw
<diddledan_> :-p
<Indeed> i'm starting to notice ...
<popey> building on my tablet
<diddledan_> Indeed: it's usually better than this during the day because I'm less active :-p
<popey> want to use vanilla upstream build, not one tampered with by debian
<diddledan_> aah
<popey>  but building something chunky like this on an arm tablet is s l o w
<diddledan_> yeah, I can imagine
<popey> still, fun that I can â»
<popey>   PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU %MEM     TIME+ COMMAND
<popey> 29554 phablet   20   0   69352  61532   5792 R  97.7  3.3   0:19.85 cc1
<popey> \o/
<diddledan_> defo, though I'd be tempted to try to do it with a cross-compile toolchain
<popey> poor little tablet
<popey> yeah, i couldn't be bothered to setup the chroot
<diddledan_> aah I see
<popey> quicker to just wget, configure, make
<diddledan_> yeah it's not easy to get a proper cross-toolchain working right
<daftykins> Indeed: computers used to just be BIOS based, that determined the structure of partitions on the disk and how they booted. more recently they use UEFI, which has greater capabilities and adds much confusion to those of us wanting to adopt a penguin
<popey> \o/ Penguins
<daftykins> Indeed: Apple macs have used UEFI for a long time though
<popey> I can hear wifey watching Good Morning Vietnam
<diddledan_> speaking of EFI I need to install refit
<daftykins> popey: no way, some pals in another channel just watched that recently
<popey> guess it's on the telly tonight in memory
<diddledan_> I believe mac's efi is slightly older than the U-variant tho
<Indeed> daftykins...  Right thanks... that helped a lot..... ( :-) )
<popey> right, bored of watching make, off to bed
<popey> nn all
<diddledan_> nn
<daftykins> nn sir
<Indeed> nn
<diddledan_> oh yeah, refit is dead. long live refind
<zmoylan-pi> 0200 and going to bed.... pfffft. amateur... :-)
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: he works.
<daftykins> hehehe
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: you might know the company he works for, yannow
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> or at least you _should_
<popey> woot, it finished
<popey> properly off to bed now
<daftykins> =]
<zmoylan-pi> see now is when you kick off big compliles when you don't want the cpu for anything else :-)
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/q1OHgva.gif - Batman
<diddledan_> where's that from? can't be the original series, surely?
<daftykins> not sure sadly
<diddledan_> funny tho
<diddledan_> I wanna see where it goes from there tho
<zmoylan-pi> some spoof i'm guessing
<diddledan_> now the question arises from that animation above, why the file extension didn't change to cif?
<daftykins> i don't follow
<daftykins> i'm afraid it's going to be a shocking pun though
<diddledan_> gif was supposedly renamed to cif
<diddledan_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cif
<diddledan_> yey - grub no longer has a 30 second delay before starting on my mbp
<diddledan_> it now boots to desktop in about 15 seconds (guess)
<diddledan_> maybe quicker
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/oy2gy12fuypb0vl/VID_20140818_024216.mp4
<daftykins> my cat in luxury
<diddledan_> nawwwww
<diddledan_> such a cutie!
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan_> ooh, yey, the latest kernel fixed a bug with my macbook pro's sd-card reader
<diddledan_> namely it was reporting that it was timing out
<diddledan_> basically it didn't really know how to talk to it properly but assumed it did
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> "hello? hello? i said hello down there?"
<diddledan_> "oranges"
<diddledan_> it's specifically awesome 'cos I got one of these in there: http://www.transcendusa.com/apple/jetdrivelite/
<diddledan_> sits almost flush with the case
<diddledan_> I remember watching this as a kid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4CXNfcfU_s
<diddledan_> oops
<diddledan_> I just set the upgrade to utopic running
<diddledan_> wonder how much breakage I'm going to be faced with
<daftykins> oodles.
<daftykins> metric oodles.
<diddledan_> oh god, metric ones?
<diddledan_> they're bigger than normal ones!
<daftykins> that they be!
<diddledan_> so far so good
<diddledan_> no breakage yet
<daftykins> oh it's coming
<diddledan_> still got a wonky display on the inbuilt monitor with wifi turned-on
<diddledan_> that's been there ever since I got it tho
<diddledan_> so 18 months now
<diddledan_> I fail to understand why wifi would affect the gfx at all and only on the inbuilt display - with external displays attached it still does it on the internal display but the externals are fine
<daftykins> so if you turn off wifi, the picture repositions? 0o
<daftykins> or just boots right
<diddledan_> this is the video I took on 13.04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSP2EIAkkJg
<daftykins> ooh hello
<diddledan_> I attached it to a bug report which got filed as dupe of some other bug which got marked as dupe of another bug....
<diddledan_> looks like I let freedesktop.org mark it as fixed
<diddledan_> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63981
<lubotu3> Freedesktop bug 63981 in DRM/Intel "MacBook Pro retina 13 inch early 2013 jittery display" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<diddledan_> as far as I can tell the diagnosis of requiring wlan to be associated with an access point is correct
<diddledan_> i.e. it's not doing it right now and wlan is disaocciated
<diddledan_> yeah, however that's spelt :-p
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> Marilyn Manson - Disassociative
<shauno> you guys realise it's tomorrow already, right?
<daftykins> it is
<daftykins> sun'll be up shortly
<daftykins> i'm nipping off to bed right now :) g'night o/
<diddledan_> nn
<shauno> heh, yeah.  quick, before it comes and burns your eyeballs!
 * daftykins disintegrates
<daftykins> shauno: btw nice neck
<shauno> o_O
<diddledan_> >:E
<diddledan_> that was the best fangy thing I could come up with on the spot
<shauno> ah
<diddledan_> ok, usb dongle - hdparm says "*	Data Set Management TRIM supported (limit 4 blocks)" but fstrim says "FITRIM ioctl failed: Operation not permitted"
<diddledan_> so, is btrfs a good idea yet?
<nigelb> depends.
<nigelb> if you're on the latest ubuntu, probably.
<nigelb> older, probably not.
<nigelb> I had a bad time with the older version, probably because I didn't have all the fixes that came in later.
<diddledan_> I've just tonight upgraded to utopic
<nigelb> It was terribly slow.
<nigelb> Ha, then I'd say go for it. popey uses it actively, I think.
<diddledan_> fair enough
<Guest25744> hi all
<diddledan_> allo mapps
<mapps> sup
<mapps> :D
<diddledan_> hmm, I might need to put something warm on
<diddledan_> me chilly
<mapps> heh
<diddledan_> I suppose I could shut the window but that makes it seem like winter already
 * Myrtti rubs her eyes
<Myrtti> there's people awake!
<Myrtti> morning
<diddledan_> morning
<mapps> morning
<shauno> evening
<mapps> Myrtti,  abiut yesterday yes still planning to go to russia in Jan
<mapps> :D
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> I am a banana
<mapps> morning diplo  / SuperMatt  :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> morning brobostigon  :)
<brobostigon> morning mapps
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Bad Poetry Day! :-D
<MooDoo> hello all
<zmoylan-pi> hi diddly hi
<MooDoo> how's everyone this fine day?
<brobostigon> tired and boiled, and you?
<MooDoo> yeah i'm doing ok thanks :D
<diddledan> struggling with bash
<popey> pip pip
<diddledan> I have a series of folders of the form year/month/day/file.txt and I want to move them to file/year-month-day.txt
<diddledan> my brian can't work it out
<zmoylan-pi> sounds more like a job for perl to me but i'm sure some bash whizz has a regular expression thingy for that
<diddledan> so far I've got "find ./foo -name "*.txt" | sed -e 's|.*/||' | uniq | (while read foo; do find ./foo -name "$foo" -exec bash -c "mkdir -p '$foo'; ln -s '{}' '$foo/$(echo {} | sed -e "s|.*([0-9]+/[0-9]+/[0-9]}).*|\1|" | sed -e "s|/|-|g"/'" \;; done)
<diddledan> it's the second-to-last regex that's not right
<diddledan> namely it thinks the input is $foo and not {}
<diddledan> or maybe it's using {} and mangling it in a way I don't appreciate
<diddledan> hmm sed: -e expression #1, char 34: invalid reference \1 on `s' command's RHS
<diddledan> \o/ the new savlonic album arrived
 * diddledan just downloaded his "perk"
<knightwise> mornin everyone
<knightwise> clear
<knightwise> *shocks chatroom*
 * zmoylan-pi thanks the rubber soles i'm wearing
<knightwise> morning zmoylan-pi
<knightwise> Ã´
<zmoylan-pi> hey knightwise
<knightwise> anyone now a good tool to sniff urls ?
<knightwise> on a wifi network
<diplo> Wireshark and filter the results? tcpdump ?
<diddledan> or airsnort
<knightwise> airsnort or ... ?
<diplo> knightwise, my suggestions above
<knightwise> sorry , i got disconnected, i missed the line above airsnort
<diplo> Wireshark and filter the results? tcpdump ?
<diplo> aha, so you did... totally missed that :D
<SuperMatt> I've just done a wiresharking for a customer
<SuperMatt> which reminds me, I should remove the dump from the public facing section of their site
<SuperMatt> done
<diddledan> hehe
<diddledan> good idea
<diddledan> my colleague is awesome for fun swears (bewarned this may be not family friendly): holy fecking smeg on a stick
 * diddledan prepares for the paddling
 * awilkins activates paddlebot
<diddledan> 3000?
 * DJones contemplates a 12.04 to 14.04 server upgrade
<foobarry> is it possible to decrpy a pdf without brtueforce?
 * zmoylan-pi wonders how many backups DJones has done
<foobarry> decrypt*
<awilkins> foobarry, There are decrypty programs that cost money that can do it instantly, apparently
<DJones> Numerous, plus I've got a clone copy of the drive
<awilkins> foobarry, Is it a file with restrictions, or a file with full encryption just to open it?
<foobarry> awilkins: i think its ecnryption, but not sure
<awilkins> foobarry, If it's full encryption then bruteforce...
<awilkins> With varying degrees of GPU support
<awilkins> Hah, there is a Ruby program called "God"
<awilkins> Of all the groups of developers in the world, why am I not surprised...
<foobarry> awilkins: i think the instant decrpyion might be encrpytion removal if you have the password.
<foobarry> so that you can use without pw in future
<awilkins> I think I meant the level that can strip document protection instantly
<diddledan> is 1600 UTC/GMT another hour yet?
<diddledan> I never did get to grips with timezones
<awilkins> BST is currently in effect
<awilkins> It's presently 1450 UTC
<popey>  /exec -o date -u
<popey> Mon Aug 18 14:50:23 UTC 2014
<popey> ^ time now in utc
<diddledan> thanks :-)
<awilkins>  /exec -o echo Hmm?
<popey> tells my irc client to run it on my server and echo the result here
<awilkins> Bah
<awilkins> :-)
<awilkins> Just had a gripe about something similar
<awilkins> Booted Windows on this machine last week and it set my RTC clock forward an hour
<awilkins> I thought it was 1645
<diddledan> ergh
<diddledan> I hate windows for that
<awilkins> Yeah, it's so annoying. And if you set the RTCIsUniversal flag the repercussions seem to get worse
<foobarry> weechat 1.0 got released
<diddledan> a bugging I will go, a bugging I will go. ee aye the adio, a bugging I will go
<diddledan> #1358357
<diddledan> where's ubottu?
<popey> bug 1358357
<lubotu3> bug 1358357 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "False GPU lockup IPEHR: 0x0a080001" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1358357
<diddledan> ooooh, I need "bug"
<diddledan> is there any high-level overview of how apport works out whether a bug is duplicate or not?
<diddledan> I just curio
<diddledan> my bug ^^^^ just got unflagged as "need duplicate check" suggesting that there aren't any dupes of it in the system, but I wonder how it decides that
<diddledan> must be pretty clever
<awilkins> Stack trace?
<foobarry> if a wine application can open a password protected pdf , would an strace of that app show the password getting used to open it?
<awilkins> Surely you're entering the password if you're doing that?
<foobarry> the app is used to view the pdfs
<foobarry> but i wanna view them on android
<foobarry> which doesn't have an app to view them
<foobarry> i never see the password
<awilkins> Is it even using the PDF mechanism of encryption or is it a PDF viewer and the PDFs are stored in some custom encrypted container?
<foobarry> i think they are just encrypted pdfs
<foobarry> pdfcrack is working on it
<foobarry> but the universe might end first
<awilkins> Might be possible if you can attach a Windows debugger to it and trap it properly
<awilkins> Dunno about attaching debuggers to things in Wine
<foobarry> i see the file getting opened in the strace
<awilkins> Hmm, if the calls above it have the password in...
<awilkins> But not necessarily, might open file then call another method that decrypts it
<awilkins> Or maybe there#s a callback
<awilkins> But good luck...
<foobarry> yeah..think i'm chasing my tail
<Guest72489> http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/2689278.htm
<Guest72489> that just looks like a usb key to me?!
<diddledan> second but of the day filed
<diddledan> bug*
<diddledan> this one got the private treatment tho
<diddledan> I guess because it included a coredump
<daftykins> diddledan: you messy blighter
<diddledan> what else can I break?
 * diddledan dumps all over your cores
<diddledan> in soviet russia core dumps you
<diddledan> and there's my racist comment of the dayâ¢
<davmor2> mapps: what is amusing with that is it says 40in1 yet lists 5-6 even if you add read, write and format you only get to 15-18 :)
<arsen> so im really struggling
<daftykins> arsen: what's up sir?
<arsen> i cant find a bag for my new mac i like :D
<arsen> i think the booq cobra slim is the best but it's $$$
<arsen> just wana carry it, an ipad, a magazine and the PSU and some bluetooth headphones, without looking like an ibm salesman
<directhex> get a dell-branded laptop case
<daftykins> you given my fave a go? http://www.crumpler.eu/
<directhex> for irony
<directhex> i have a timbuk2 from my last job
<daftykins> hmm now how to get my old ion1 outputting 24-bit FLAC to my amp 8)
<arsen> i had an old dell one actually, took it back to my old job because it took up too much space in my cupboard
<daftykins> that's good of you to return stuff imo, too many freeloaders out there
<arsen> .. i got a free PC and loads of free monitors.. :D
<arsen> they didnt want any of it, but i dont want free junk just because its free
<daftykins> XD
<arsen> that's gona remain my linux pc :)
<arsen> at home.
<dvrr> how to update ubuntu 13.04 when i update apt-get i am getting  this problem  please open this url  http://paste.ubuntu.com/8081954/
<daftykins> dvrr: the repos of raring (13.04) have been renamed due to the release going EOL
<daftykins> !eol | dvrr
<lubotu3> dvrr: End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<daftykins> dvrr: follow the last link above for how to upgrade, however i'd recommend backing up and clean installing 14.04 instead.
<directhex> i've done a bunch of unsupported upgrades to 14.04 lately
<directhex> e.g. 13.04, 12.10
<daftykins> ah yeah, all gone swimmingly huh?
<directhex> mmmm...... config file changes were the biggest pain
<directhex> apache 2.4
<daftykins> oh, what shindiggery have they changed?
<jpds> daftykins: Something to do with ACL changes, I think.
<arsen> http://www.brenthaven.com/fbx-live-feed/collins-slim-brief-indigo-chambray looks nice
<popey> directhex: they're not unsupported
<popey> oh, you mean EOL'ed ?
<directhex> popey: upgrades from and 12.10, 13.04 to 14.04 are not supported
<popey> i thought they explicitly were due to the short life of them
<popey> i.e. we said we'd support upgrades from (releases between 12.04 and 14.04) to 14.04 because we made the EOL all complicated
<popey> also, it depends what you mean by "supported â»
<Guest10053> hm
<Guest10053> mustve got dc again
<mapps> urgh flicked through channels 'celeb big brother' a susual total dross..
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<ThomasRedstone> hello, I'm having an odd problem with Ubuntu 14.04, when the computer has locked sometimes I'm having to enter my password twice before it unlocks, sometimes the password box isn't responsive right away, and just now I've entered my password and it hadn't gone into the password box, but instead it went to a web browser instead, and actually resulted in my password being broadcast on a GroupMe group!!!
<ThomasRedstone> Where on earth do I start in addressing this? Is it a known bug? Or am I special?
<popey> have you updated your machine recently
<popey> these are two known bugs which have been fixed some weeks ago
<jpds> ThomasRedstone: sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -y
<ThomasRedstone> it's a brand new install
<popey> so yeah, update it
<popey> or open update manager and do the updates it wants to
<bigcalm> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<ThomasRedstone> 14.04.1 LTS, going any updates required now
<ThomasRedstone> no dist-upgrade required
<ThomasRedstone> no packages to upgrade, fully up to date
<bigcalm> And a reboot?
<popey> ThomasRedstone: this was a 14.04.1 clean install?
<ThomasRedstone> it's been rebooted in the last few hours
<popey> can you run "apt-cache policy unity" and paste the result at paste.ubuntu.com
<ThomasRedstone> the additional packages I've installed are quite limited: virtualbox, chrome, vagrant, brackets, sublime text, and x-chat gnome, and their dependencies.
<ThomasRedstone> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8083062/
<popey> ok, same as I have here.
<popey> when was the last time your password leaked through the login screen?
<popey> for what it's worth the workaround for the password issue is to click one of the indicators at the top right then click the password field to ensure it's highlighted.
<popey> however it _should_ be fixed in the version you have installed
<ThomasRedstone> about 5 minutes before I came here :-) - the window that has been in the background hasn't been one that would accept text in the past, so this is the first time I've realised it could be leaked
<popey> If you have 5 minutes can you file a bug? I'll walk you through it.
<popey> yeah, I've done the same!
<ThomasRedstone> I'm wondering if Virtualbox has *something* to do with it, I've had times where I couldn't type in Ubuntu, and I seemed to be stuck on a VM, but this was the browser in Ubuntu that had focus
<ThomasRedstone> sure, I'll file a bug
<popey> do you have a launchpad account already?
<popey> if so, just open a terminal and run "ubuntu-bug unity" and it will gather stuff and take you to launchpad to file the bug
<popey> I filed bug 1306970 when it happened here
<lubotu3> bug 1306970 in Unity "Screensaver leaks password key-presses through to applications" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306970
<popey> but i'm told that's been fixed
<popey> but if you're still getting it... maybe not
<popey> best for you to file a new bug though
<ThomasRedstone> okay, will do :-)
<popey> thank you
<popey> feel free to ping us the bug number when done.
<ThomasRedstone> you have any problem with me borrowing your wording where it matches?
<bigcalm> popey: is your bitfolk vps 64bit?
<ThomasRedstone> asking "Do any of the following bugs describe the bug you're trying to report?" I'm not quite sure how to answer that one :-P it gives your bug :-)
<popey> hehe
<popey> say no, file a new one
<popey> bigcalm: no
<bigcalm> popey: okay, thanks
<bigcalm> Think I might move my bytemark vps to their bigv cloud thing. Was considering bitfolk, but I need 64bit now
<popey> why do you need 64-bit?
<bigcalm> I can't be doing with the faff of getting gitlab to install of 32bit
<bigcalm> I'll be saving money wherever I go, so having 64bit makes one option more attractive than another
<ThomasRedstone> "This bug is a security vulnerability" - I'd say yes, but perhaps not in the way the question means, what do you think popey?
<popey> I'd say yes
<ThomasRedstone> Okay, it's filed, the bug is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1358504
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1358504 in unity (Ubuntu) "Screensaver leaks password key-presses through to applications" [Undecided,New]
<popey> thanks ThomasRedstone
<ThomasRedstone> no problem popey :-)
<bigcalm> A further 2h 20m on this database import - think I'll be leaving my laptop on over night
<ThomasRedstone> a bit of a general question, has anyone else found the *buntu distributions less 'complete' (best word I can think of for it) than Ubuntu? I tried out Lubuntu, and things like handling multiple monitors were less smooth than Ubuntu
<hamitron> ThomasRedstone, sure, but they are more complete than a minimal install ;)
<ThomasRedstone> I guess so, I wanted something fast, to go on my new SSD, but as it turns out, Ubuntu is plenty fast enough :-) as I'm doing a lot of work in VMs, thought minimalistic would be fine, but it turns out the hardware management side is more of a deal breaker :-)
<Andrew_> Hello all.
<Andrew_> I am a new Unbutu user, and I am unable to use my dvd drive.
<Andrew_> I am hoping I will find help here.
<Andrew_> Is there someone here?
<Azelphur> !elaborate | Andrew_
<lubotu3> Andrew_: Please elaborate; your question or issue may not seem clear or detailed enough for people to help you. Please give more detailed information, errors, steps, and possibly configuration files (use the !pastebin to avoid flooding the channel)
<Azelphur> also, Ubuntu :)
<Andrew_> I do not know enough to elaborate.
<Andrew_> I only know that the computer seems to see the dvd drive, and yet tells me that there is no media.
<Azelphur> is it possible that the dvd you have put in is damaged? have you tried a different DVD?
<Andrew_> The drive itself works. Of this I'm sure.
<Andrew_> Also, I have used three discs.
<Andrew_> I have followed many directions on websites and run the recommended terminal commands, with no change.
<Azelphur> Andrew_: try putting the disk in the drive and try to mount it, then run dmesg in a terminal, it may provide additoinal information
<Andrew_> Beyond placing the dvd in the drive, I do not know how to mount it.
<Andrew_> This is incredibly frustrating for me, as I am comptia A+ and MCP, and yet I am totally stumped by this new OS.
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> Andrew_: I've never heard of a dvd drive not working ootb, it's strange that you'd have issues
<Andrew_> I am certain that the OS sees the drive itself. Yet, all discs tried show as having no media.
<Andrew_> I truly do not know what to do.
<Azelphur> Andrew_: did you miss my suggestion earlier?
<Andrew_> I am unsure how to mount a disc once I have placed it in the drive.
<Azelphur> Andrew_: just open the file browser and click on it, that'll mount it
<Azelphur> (or at least try to)
<Andrew_> Click on what?
<Azelphur> the DVD drive
<Andrew_> I see no indication of a DVD drive.
<Azelphur> that's odd
<Azelphur> Andrew_: does /dev/cdrom exist?
<Andrew_> Only by using the power button and searching for "DVD", then selecting "Disks", am I able to see an indication of the dvd drive, which is properly IDed.
<Andrew_> dev/cdrom is unfound
<Azelphur> Andrew_: can you paste the output of ls /dev/ ?
<Andrew_> I am unsure of your request.
<Azelphur> run ls /dev/ in a terminal
<Azelphur> and then put the results on pastebin
<Andrew_> autofs           net                 sdb       tty24  tty56      ttyS29 block            network_latency     sdc       tty25  tty57      ttyS3 bsg              network_throughput  sdd       tty26  tty58      ttyS30 btrfs-control    null                sde       tty27  tty59      ttyS31 bus              nvidia0             sg0       tty28  tty6       ttyS4 char             nvidiactl           sg1       tty29  tty60      ttyS5 conso
<Andrew_> Again, I am in my second day of linux. I am unaware of pastebin.
<Azelphur> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imgur.com/ !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<Azelphur> fine for one line to just paste it in the channel, though :)
<Azelphur> Andrew_: do you have 2 optical drives?
<Andrew_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8083992/
<Andrew_> I have 1 drive.
<Azelphur> strange, I wonder what sg0 and sg1 are
<Andrew_> Have I shown you the proper url?
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> ah, that output wasn't anywhere near complete :P
<Andrew_> Regardless of whether or not my issue will be resolved, I thank you in advance for taking the time to help me.
<Azelphur> I imagine your drive is sr0
<Andrew_> I ran the terminal command you gave me, and that is the completed output
<Azelphur> Andrew_: I mean when you pasted it in IRC, it was truncated, the pastebin link contains the full output :)
<Azelphur> so yea, your dvd drive is sr0, which means the system is seeing it ok, one step in the right direction
<Andrew_> Yes, I am certain that the OS sees the drive.
<Andrew_> As a windows user, my first thought is drivers.
<Azelphur> nah, if it's in /dev it's not a driver issue
<Andrew_> Alright.
<Azelphur> I wonder if the file browser is just having a funny to be honest, is there a disk in the drive?
<Andrew_> Yes.
<Azelphur> sudo mkdir /media/cdrom
<Azelphur> sudo mount /dev/sr0 /media/cdrom
<Azelphur> what does that get you? ^
<Andrew_> 5sudo mount /dev/sr0 /media/cdrom
<Andrew_> mount: no medium found on /dev/sr0
<Azelphur> It's saying there's no disk in the drive
<Azelphur> Is there a disk in the drive?
<Andrew_> Yes.
<Azelphur> Andrew_: what makes you sure that the DVD drive is functional?
<Andrew_> A dvd with avi and jpg and more.
<Andrew_> It worked without fail in the hours prior to installing ubuntu
<Andrew_> While running on windows.
<Azelphur> ah, I see
<Andrew_> I ran a series of terminal commands ealier regarding codecs, as recommending by ubuntu forums, with no change.
<Azelphur> codecs? that shouldn't solve anything if it's not got a medium in the drive according to mount
<Azelphur> xD
<Andrew_> I have no more ideas for search paramaters to find the solution.
<Azelphur> Andrew_: me eiither, might be worth asking again tomorrow at a more sane hour
<Azelphur> more people will about then to help :)
<Andrew_> I fear that linux may be beyond my skills, and will consider returning to windows.
<Andrew_> Thank you for you help.
<Azelphur> Andrew_: if you're a windows power user, tbh it's usually better to at least dual boot to start with.
<daftykins> does your system have two drives?
<Andrew_> No.
<Azelphur> it's hard switching from Windows to Linux :)
<Andrew_> The only problem I am having is with this disc drive.
<daftykins> Andrew_: would you mind running "dmesg | pastebinit" ?
<daftykins> looks like Azelphur took you the logical route anyway, but just curious
<Azelphur> daftykins: ah yea good catch, I asked for dmesg earlier but forgot to push for it :P
<daftykins> ^_^
<Andrew_> I have run the command, but the lengt is long, and I cannot copy it entirely.
<daftykins> Andrew_: you need to type exactly "dmesg | pastebinit"
<Azelphur> Andrew_: do what daftykins said, it automatically puts it on pastebin and gives you the URL
<daftykins> it will then only return ^
<Andrew_> I have to install pastebin first
<Azelphur> sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<Andrew_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8084100/
<Andrew_> correct?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-19
<daftykins> ah i thought i saw you had been asked to pop it on before
<Azelphur> [ 1037.393237] sr0: unsupported sector size -687980545.
<Andrew_> Suggestion?
<Azelphur> wat
<Azelphur> Andrew_: wait, are you sure that's a DVD drive?
<Azelphur> dmesg is saying it's a CD drive
<Azelphur> oh no, I see where it says it's a DVD drive now
<Azelphur> ignore me ;)
<daftykins> so we've got 4 devices from what i see, 160GB seagate sda
<Andrew_> my HD
<daftykins> a TEAC memory card reader
<Andrew_> I do not use it.
<Andrew_> The card reader, I mean.
<daftykins> HL-DT-ST DVD+-RW GSA-H31N B110
<daftykins> that's the optical yip
<Andrew_> Yes.
<Andrew_> Yes.
<Andrew_> Shows no media no matter what I place in it.
<Azelphur> daftykins: I noticed this line too: sr 1:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg1 type 5
<daftykins> laptop or desktop?
<Azelphur> does that mean we should be mounting sg1 and not sr0?
<daftykins> Azelphur: which # sir?
<Azelphur> daftykins: 679
<Andrew_> Inspiron 531s desktop
<Andrew_> stock
<daftykins> UDMA 100 is very odd for an optical 0o
<daftykins> Andrew_: this is totally stupid, but have you powered off then back on since the install?
<Andrew_> Of the OS?
<daftykins> Azelphur: i really don't know if that's a corresponding device name
<daftykins> Andrew_: nah whole computer
<Andrew_> Ubuntu was installed yesterday, and I have restarted many times.
<Andrew_> I have been without troubles up to this point.
<daftykins> right but what about being off?
<Andrew_> Yes, it has been powered down completely and for a few hours.
<daftykins> can you give me the service tag off the case?
<Andrew_> Not without a great effort.
<daftykins> how's that? should be 7 characters long
<daftykins> you can reboot and press F2 to enter BIOS and read it from there, to avoid the physical casing label
<Andrew_> As in windows, is there a cmd/terminal command I can use?
<Azelphur> Andrew_: try dmidecode -s system-serial-number
<Andrew_> I am in the middle of a live session/data transfer and must maintain the connection until the upload is completed.
<Andrew_> permission denied for that command
<Azelphur> Andrew_: sudo dmidecode -s system-serial-number
<Andrew_> 4FWH7D1
<daftykins> there's no command in Windows to pull up a service tag 0o
<Azelphur> daftykins: ^
<daftykins> ty
<Andrew_> wmic csproduct get vendor,name,identifyingnumber
<Andrew_> also, wmic /user:administrator /node:remote-host bios get serialnumber
<daftykins> oh, my bad
<daftykins> evidently my Windows admin'ing isn't as far along as yours :D
<daftykins> heh that thing came with Vista, no wonder you wanted off
<Andrew_> You can understand why I feel useless at the moment.
<Andrew_> Linux is making me feel so tiny and stupid.
<daftykins> ok already latest BIOS, just for the fun of checking
<daftykins> haha, yeah i remember it did me too for a while
<daftykins> have you considered doing a free course? edx.org has the LFS101x right now
<daftykins> gives you a quick jump up for starter theory and general operation
<daftykins> it is a little dumbed down to be accessible, but is pretty good still
<Andrew_> I may install a second HD and dual windows until I am able to figure out the issue with this disc drive.
<Andrew_> Also, the moment I got this computer, I installed XP.
<Andrew_> For the comment regarding vista.
<daftykins> he have you done practically every firmware update on that thing you can? seems that optical is already on the latest firmware too
<Andrew_> I have, I believe.
<daftykins> *heh
<daftykins> Azelphur: i'm beginning to think kernel, old nvidia chipset + SATA quirkiness
<Azelphur> I see
<Andrew_> Funny you would say that. I had just thought that there might be a sata incompatibily issue here.
<Andrew_> I believe I am stumped for the night. I will read more forums and hope to find a solution/workaround.
<Andrew_> Thank you all for trying to assist me.
<daftykins> Andrew_: what i would do is try booting a live USB session of 12.04.5
<Andrew_> An earlier version may yeild some result, yes.
<daftykins> still long term support until 2017 too
<Andrew_> I am aware that 14.04 is still buggy.
<daftykins> i would disagree with that statement, i think it's more on age right now
<daftykins> do you have 2GB RAM + ?
<Andrew_> I do not.
<daftykins> more or less?
<Andrew_> Less.
<daftykins> ouch
<Andrew_> 1g
<Andrew_> Yes.
<daftykins> you may want to go with lubuntu or xubuntu
<daftykins> lubuntu being the lightest but ugliest
<Andrew_> I may use another system. I am uneasy about altering another machine. I opted to use this old dell as a test machine.
<Andrew_> I have optimized my other systems on windows, but I will consider making a change. I am enjoying ubuntu, despite this one handup.
<Andrew_> hangup*
<daftykins> i have a sony ultraportable running an intel core 2 duo with 2GB RAM and xubuntu 14.04, everything's ace :D
<daftykins> yeah optical is pretty... niche in my eyes now
<daftykins> anywho i'd be interested to see how you get on with precise (12.04.5)
<daftykins> would you like a download link before you go?
<Andrew_> I will create a usb for it now.
<Andrew_> I have the links, thank you.
<mapps> ;]
<Andrew_> I will return and share my results later. Thank you all very much, again.
<daftykins> np
<daftykins> good luck
<daftykins> hey mapps
<mapps> hey sup man
<daftykins> mmmm not much here sir, been listening to this Blade Runner soundtrack though, damn it's good
<daftykins> mapps: hey you hear about Aphex Twin new album this year?!
<mapps> oh wow
<mapps> no
<mapps> got a link?
<mapps> he rarely releases anything
<mapps> you like aphex?
<daftykins> damn straight, nah no links yet
<daftykins> though apparently he had some TOR link on his twitter feed
<mapps> :D
<mapps> love heliosphan
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> cant connect to my pptp vpn pw
<mapps> arghhhh
<daftykins> D:
<mapps> silly pi keeps losing wifi
<mapps> tempted to format my netbook and put a fresh OS on..got win7 on atm..anyone got any suggestions for anythng else
<daftykins> lubuntu
<mapps> how is everybody?
<Gargoyle> Mornin'
<Gargoyle> Good thanks, mapps
<mapps> rubbish weather ere again
<mapps> :(
<Gargoyle> Yeah. Getting cold. Might have to put the heating back on!
<mapps> il be in sunny spain soon
<mapps> :D
<mapps> Going to Latvia next week then Gibraltar / Spain for 6months
<mapps> will be living in la linea de concepcion
<mapps> hm
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Day off?
<DJones> You never seem to be on IRC with the new job, must be keeping you too busy, better ask for a pay rise already
<foobarry> mapps: try elementary
<MooDoo> DJones: no i'm at work, yes i am on it less but still trying to get on once in a while :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> MooDoo: slacker
<MooDoo> davmor2: shut the heck up youth :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: ps, hope you're well
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<davmor2> MooDoo: dude I'm only a year younger than you ;)   How's life, how's the new job?
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> davmor2: It's all going ok, and it's fine thanks, learning a lot
<davmor2> MooDoo: I thought they employed you because of what you knew not what you could learn ;)
<Myrtti> I feel ancient in comparison to almost everyone
<MooDoo> davmor2: I know how to make tea :D
<Myrtti> (on IRC channels)
<MooDoo> Myrtti: you're a whipper snapper :D
<Myrtti> the older I get the more convinced I am that age is a relative thing
<Myrtti> this year marks my 20th anniversary online
<Myrtti> in two years 20 years of IRC
<MooDoo> Myrtti: when you're my age, then you can start to worry just a little bit :D
<Myrtti> MooDoo: wrinkle cream. I have it.
<DJones> Myrtti: MooDoo: kids today, always worrying about getting old
<MooDoo> Myrtti: aren't you only in your 20's ?
<Myrtti> DJones: I don't actually worry about getting old. I worry about starting to look like my mum.
<DJones> I think there's only TheOpenSourcerer here thats older than me
 * awilkins is 40
<Myrtti> MooDoo: 34 last week.
<MooDoo> Myrtti: ah that's nothing
<MooDoo> DJones: how old?
<DJones> 47
<DJones>  last week
 * zmoylan-pi is 43
<Myrtti> \o/
<Myrtti> MooDoo: well, it's past the magical age of "how old my mum was when she had me"
<MooDoo> DJones: happy birthday - belated
 * MooDoo is 42 :D
<Myrtti> it's all relative, you see
<DJones> Hmmh, MooDoo is the answer to life, the universe and everything
<MooDoo> yeah baby yeah
<popey> morning
<MooDoo> morning popey
<Laney> you oldies!
<popey> whipper snapper
<popey> get off my lawn
<popey> etc
<davmor2> Myrtti: see all the awesome people were born in August :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think I missed your announcement of what day it was....What is today oh wise and internet calendared one?
<foobarry> talk about your age day?
<MooDoo> davmor2: you mean april right?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Humanitarian Day! :-D
<JamesTait> davmor2, you didn't miss it, I just hadn't done it yet. :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: yay!
<JamesTait> davmor2, it's also Photography Day and Aviation Day.
<foobarry> \o/
<foobarry> good combo
<JamesTait> davmor2, sounds like a day to take photographs of planes carrying people to humanitarian missions.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I prefer the to latter ones :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: sounds like a good excuse to get your camera out if ever there was one
<foobarry> excited for the wings and wheels show on sunday
 * JamesTait has he camera perched on his desk in front of him, just in case.
<awilkins> Humanitarian day on a day that police are using tear gas and sonic weapons on peaceful protesters in a futile attempt to cover up that one of their officers fucked up big time
<davmor2> Myrtti: MooDoo doesn't think you are awesome don't take it personally, I think you are though :)
<awilkins> Pardon my channel-inappropriate outburst of language
<foobarry> i haven't been reading the news
<foobarry> sounds like something happened
<foobarry> no spoilers though ;)
<awilkins> Tinfoil hat side of me is wondering if this is a test case of civil unrest to investigate how well the tactics work
<awilkins> Whoever signed off on the budgets for it must be utterly mental
<Myrtti> foobarry: US police have again shown that they can use excessive force and pull the trigger
<awilkins> A week of that kind of police action, plus national guard, seems an awful lot more expensive than just arresting the idiot and starting proceedings against him
<MooDoo> davmor2: Myrtti is awesome thank you very much :D
<JamesTait> +1
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah yeah yeah you said it dude don't try taking it back now ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: :p
<davmor2> hahaha
<MooDoo> davmor2: pa just got back from bakewell :D  had a great time  went to gullivers kingdom :D
<awilkins> But the fact that they have built up that kind of arsenal? I don't understand how they could even think they would need it, unless they were planning for that kind of civil unrest... so why are they expecting it?
<davmor2> MooDoo: just bought a caravan we are still getting used to it :)
<awilkins> I would not expect police to have that kind of arsenal, I would expect them to have basic defensive gear, but if it escalated that much to send for the National Guard.
<popey> davmor2: what kinda caravan?
<awilkins> Not that it has escalated that much, except on the police side.
<popey> is it static or mobile?
<davmor2> popey: Tourer, 1999 Swift Classic Danette
<popey> with awning?
<popey> http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/swift-danette-caravan-1994-5-berth/1077536477 like that one?
<davmor2> popey: no we were in a trailer tent originally, but as my back and shoulder are slowly getting worse it was taking longer to recover from the setup.  which is being bent over pegging stuff in, so we want to avoid that completely
<popey> yeah, wise
<MooDoo> davmor2: awesome :D
<davmor2> popey: yeap that is ours,  the back seats turn into a double bed and can be sectioned off as a bedroom.  and then the rest of the caravan is just space to do stuff in :)
<DJones> davmor2: Welcome to the ubuntu-uk-caravan-club :)
<zmoylan-pi> bunch of hippies, geeky hippies but still hippies :-)
 * awilkins secretly wants to live in an Earthship / Hobbit hole
<MooDoo> DJones: #ubuntu-uk-caravan-club ;)
<DJones> :0
<DJones> :)
<awilkins> Grow my own veg. Brew my own drink.
<davmor2> popey, MooDoo, DJones:  Next we want to move up to an Adria altea trent or an adria sportline up  same thing but with a bit more space and luxury
<zmoylan-pi> i want to live on a crannog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crannog
<awilkins> As long as it has fibre.
 * DJones concrete's over awilkins hobbit hole and builds a multistory car park
<awilkins> I defy your intentions to pave my paradise and put up a parking lot.
<foobarry> looked away from my vsphereOS pc for one second and windows decided a reboot was neceesary for updates :(
<DJones> davmor2: We've got a 2 berth at the moment, would like to replace that with a fixed bed 4 berth before next year, not really any preference on the make though as long as its under 1300kgs
<awilkins> (ooooh, bop bop bop)
<davmor2> DJones: same here the adria is nice though have a look the trent and up are similar layouts the up has some extras though both under 1300 as that's all our car can pull
<davmor2> Anyone else going the the nec for the caravan and motorhome expo?
<shauno> I'm not sure they'd let me in, I'm only 30 ;)
<davmor2> shauno: they'll let you in they just won't let you buy ;)
<zmoylan-pi> can you imagine the tents of the queue camping outside that! :-)
<MooDoo> shauno: confuse them all, grow a beard
<DJones> davmor2: I like the Bailey fix bed vans
<foobarry> what is the iU state in dpkg --list?
<shauno> the top two lines of the output should detail that?
<foobarry> | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
<foobarry> |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
<shauno> so iU is desired=Install, status=Unpacked  (unpacked but not configured)
<shauno> I'd assume that's the state when post-conf scripts break?
<foobarry> thats bad, it was a kernel
<shauno> make sure /boot isn't full and try again?  (just dpkg-reconfigure package).  or just go straight to try again and pay attention to the output?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry>  ugh, i'd run out of inodes in /usr
<SuperMatt> yeesh, how much stuff have you installed?
<SuperMatt> have you added all the ppas or something?
<awilkins> Impressed, unless you made a file system for /usr with non-default settings and that's biting you now :-)
<foobarry> i had small /usr
<foobarry> it is a vm server
<foobarry> a server which is a vm,
<foobarry> increased /usr and off we go
<SuperMatt> wheeeee
<foobarry> no space left on device always makes me think bytes rather than inodes
<foobarry> good invterview question
<shauno> oddly, I tend to check the other way around.  no space left on device makes me check inodes because bytes free rarely sneaks up on me
<ali1234> no space left on device always seems to be a show stopper in my experience
<ali1234> ie if it happens it doesn't really matter why, you'll be rebuilding that server from backups
<foobarry> lvm innit
<zmoylan-pi> it's extra fun when it hits zero and you don't even have space to delete things to make space :-)
<foobarry> apt-get -f install and we're back in business
<ali1234> yeah, if you can even log in
<ali1234> why would you even put /usr on a different partition on a VM server?
<foobarry> so i can still login if it fills up
<shauno> I rarely hit that.  my vps is a mailserver, so the liability is lots of small files (high inode usage).  but not owned by root, so root's 5% reservation saves lives
<ali1234>  /var is always the one that gets full though
<foobarry> not today
<foobarry> var can stomp on / if all together though, yeah
<popey> even more fun when your linux based phone runs out of space â»
<MooDoo> raaaaaaaaaa bloomin awstats....
<MooDoo> sometimes i'm so dumb
<davmor2> DJones: seriously have a look at the adrias you will be pleasantly surprised at the trent and up :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes DJones - I'm 49 currently.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: ubuntu uk 50th party? ;)
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: man you're like the ancient and wise pepper monger
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm...
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Right, I did think you were a year younger than that
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'd much rather be talking total non-PC, non CoC approved rubbish in my local for my 50th than an Ubuntu UK get together frankly. No offence ;-)
<Myrtti> DJones: he's had a sneaky birthday since, probably
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have one every March oddly enough.
<zmoylan-pi> except next year when it won't be odd but even :-p
<knightwise> i think its pretty safe to say that LXLE is one of the more under-appreciated spins on Ubuntu
<knightwise> just installed the 64 bit version on my Thinkpad an it runs like kittens on cocaine !
<dvrr> i am upgrading  packages  ubuntu 13.04   i faced some problem   please  open url  http://paste.ubuntu.com/8088016/
<zmoylan-pi> splitters!
<knightwise> hey zmoylan-pi
<knightwise> howzyou today
<Laney> 3.14159265359
<Laney> that's as much as i can remember
<knightwise> Laney: I would like a slice please
<Laney> i slice but the knife never seems to get to the end
<dvrr> MooDoo
<knightwise> Bliss !
<knightwise> Screens in portrait mode :)
<popey> dvrr: sounds like bug 1083483
<lubotu3> bug 1083483 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "package libpulse0 1:2.1-0ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite shared '/etc/pulse/client.conf', which is different from other instances of package libpulse0:i386" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1083483
<popey> dvrr: looks like you have libpulse0:i386 and libpulse0:amd64 trying to co-exist
<zmoylan-pi> hey knightwise, was just off reading rss
<zmoylan-pi> ancient tricorder :-) http://www.wired.com/2014/08/crazy-blowpipe-apparatus/
<dvrr> popey:  how can  i resolve  this problem
<popey> dvrr: I'd figure out why you have libpulse0:i386 installed
<popey> interestingly on my 14.04 system I have both libpulse0:i386 and libpulse0:amd64 so it looks like it's fixed in later releases
<popey> dvrr: you're on an unsupported version of Ubuntu (13.04) so chances are it won't get fixed, you'll need to either fix it by removing one of the two packages, or force install them or (preferably) upgrade to a newer release
<ali1234> libpulse0:i386 is used by several proprietary applications - one is skype i think
<ali1234> and yes this was a bug on 13.04, i remember being affected by it
<foobarry> finished my latest airfix kit but left the canopy in devon :( http://i.imgur.com/P9Z7jO7.jpg
<awilkins> Airfix was something I never really got into as a kid because of the expense of buying all the paint
<popey> took my powerup3 to the park at the wekend
<popey> man that thing is hard to fly!
<popey> possibly too windy
<davmor2> popey: that or your crap
<popey> that too
<davmor2> you're even
<awilkins> My girlfriend has a heap of unopened kits on a shelf in her boxroom and I feel the urge, as a nerdy man, to assemble them, but still balk at the cost of the paint
<foobarry> :-|
<foobarry> paint is not that much
<foobarry> that kit i did mainly used 3 colours
<foobarry> a red arrow uses.....1 colour
<awilkins> Emotional bias formed by childhood experience
<foobarry> Â£1.50ish for a pot of humbrol. thats all u need
<foobarry> awilkins: take a photo of the kits on the shelf pls :D
<awilkins> Next time I'm there
<foobarry> it is the most enjoyable and relaxing of hobbies
<foobarry> it really is rather inexpensive
<foobarry> especially if you're doing WWII RAF stuff. then its all sky/dark earth/green camo style
<shauno> yank ww2 stuff isn't bad either.  one can of spray silver goes a long way
<knightwise> i was thinking of buying some star trek models
<knightwise> they have some great versions of the original enterprise ..
<knightwise> but i'm afraid I suck at stuff you have to glue together
<foobarry> yeah. also check this vid for metalcote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn9_Y7v0PXI
<foobarry> knightwise: when was the last time you tried?
<knightwise> when I was a teenager I think
<foobarry> all the hormones react with the glue...try again :P
<knightwise> hmm.. might be worth it
<knightwise> wife buys me a lego kit from time to time :) keeps me busy for ages :)
 * knightwise has a small collection of lego star wars ships
 * foobarry has real star wars in the loft
<awilkins> By "real" I presume you mean original figures, not the modern ones
<foobarry> yep
<awilkins> DO you have a Boba Fett?
<foobarry> and not made out of lego
<foobarry> i have 2 boba fetts
<awilkins> With launching rocket?
<foobarry> one had chewing gum and a bit wobbly that i acquired in a swap. one is in better nick
<foobarry> i don't think the launching rocket was on general release
<foobarry> or so the episode of toy hunter told me
<foobarry> i have yak face though.
<foobarry> he's prob worth around Â£70
<awilkins> Wow, Rocket Firing Boba Fett : $16,000
<foobarry> check youtube for the toy hunter episode
<foobarry> although i hate that prog. its soo.....money oriented
<foobarry> james may could make an awesome english equivalent
<foobarry> apparently kenner made them as sample but not sold due to risk of children and law suits
 * knightwise has a boba fett , in da box :) 
<knightwise> Oldest action figure I have is from 79
<knightwise> I currently also have a T-interceptor from 81, with a pilot from 83 :)
<knightwise> awilkins: no rocket firing one. a re-issue :)
<foobarry> i have battle damaged x-wing in box
<foobarry> i played with them all but kept the boxes
<knightwise> even boxes are worth something Ã§!
<knightwise> https://www.flickr.com/photos/knightwise/13333634564/
<knightwise> my 81' T-interceptor
<foobarry> how much did u buy for
<knightwise> foobarry: i got it as a gift from the guy at the toy store (we have a retro toy store in gent we go to regularly)
<knightwise> the wings are glued on , so it isn't worth much anymore
<knightwise> but its still very cool
<knightwise> and this is te biggest T-wing I got to see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-GFQtTrZAs (1 minute into the movie)
<knightwise> sorry , 10 minutes in
<foobarry> just realised the vulcan XH558 is flying on sunday too \o/
<zmoylan-pi> popping back from a mission over iraq? :-p
<mapps> hm my pi wifi turns itself off:D
<zmoylan-pi> going undercover? power saving?
<mapps> i think it must be the power saving
<mapps> but
<mapps> it happens after like a few mins!!
<zmoylan-pi> time it to see?
<mapps> yea will do now
<DJones> popey: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/08/ubuntu-mate-remix-course-become-official-flavour
<popey> DJones: â»
 * smittix ties MooDoo's shoe laces together
 * SuperEngineer pushes
 * smittix laughs and runs away
 * zmoylan-pi places banana peels in smittix's path
 * smittix slips over in a cartoon fashion whilst crashing into zmoylan-pi 
 * SuperEngineer carefully places drawing pins around  smittix's escape path
 * zmoylan-pi lands and yells and leaps off the drawing pins in a manner that has tom and jerrys animators reaching for the copyright lawyers phone number
<smittix> heh
 * smittix sits up and waves
 * SuperEngineer drops cartoon anvil
<smittix> ouch
 * foobarry mixes up some acme quick drying cement
 * smittix wonders why everyone is after him.
 * SuperEngineer phones Roger Rabbit
 * smittix phones Jessica
<SuperEngineer> [& pours all that tupentine down the chemoical disposal]
<foobarry> i need some turps or white spirit
<foobarry> but i want 50ml, not 2L
<smittix> To drink?
<foobarry> maybe i should ask a neighbour
 * smittix hides
<foobarry> double measure
<foobarry> itv always say "don't go away".
<foobarry> sorry mate. i'm doing the washing up
<SuperEngineer> [this is soooo muh more fun than boasting about the new printer I bought at the weekend for exactly 2 pints... which previous very temp owner couldn't get working]
<MartijnVdS> what kind of printer? and is it working now?
<zmoylan-pi> 2 pints of water or 2 pints of inkjet ink? :-)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: Epsom Xp-412
<SuperEngineer> ...easy to control [as a printer] vis the escpr driver for Ubuntu from Epsom
<SuperEngineer> ...as a scanner thopugh... well maybe someday...
<SuperEngineer> [but it's got inbuilt screen and control for that... - scan to the sdcard - xfer the card to pooter - print it from pooter if wanted till then
 * SuperEngineer checks - Jessica Rabbit has *not* recieved any phone call from smittix !
<SuperEngineer> ...she still loves Roger & SuperEngineer only
 * zmoylan-pi hasn't seen an epson printer other than receipt printers since....
<smittix> heh
<zmoylan-pi> epson stylus 200 yonks back
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi:  stylus wat?
<zmoylan-pi> and 9 and 24 pin dot matrix jobbies around that time.
<davmor2> DJones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jqV4R_dArM#t=340 by the way and weighs in at 1300 :)
<SuperEngineer> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Epson-Expression-XP-412-Small-Printer/dp/B00DVH6HAG
<zmoylan-pi> there consumer entry level inkjet from early 90s i think
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: cool
 * SuperEngineer bought Epsom as 1st printer decades ago - it was the only one at the time with cartridge refill kits
<davmor2> DJones: might give you something to compare your baileys against :)
 * SuperEngineer still hugs his Canon i560X however - still going a treat
<SuperEngineer> [but no scanner]
<SuperEngineer> oh, & btw... SuperEngineer fires cartoon round black fused explosive looking things at smittix
 * zmoylan-pi hasn't used a scanner since my first phone had a 2mp camera
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: poser!
<zmoylan-pi> a nokia n70, great phone
<SuperEngineer> "00ooo- I'll just hover over this receipt for 20mins till I get it right & hope my hands don't shake it when I press the button"
<foobarry> heard my wife laughing hysterically to something on telly while i was doing the washing up
<foobarry> turns out it was sarah millican. men and women are rather diffierent.....
<SuperEngineer> foobarry: you sure it's not CCTV
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> yesterday it was that other ladies comedy
<foobarry> miranda
<zmoylan-pi> nah, i use a wooden frame that the phone sits into that clips to kitchen table at optimal height over platform below.  good enough for photographing books for ocr
<foobarry> the other programme that makes her laugh like that is top gear :D
<zmoylan-pi> my current dumbphone is 5mp so the res is grand.
<smittix> I still have a Motorola MR1
<zmoylan-pi> how long does the battery life last between charges?
<smittix> 5 Years
<smittix> Not bad really
<smittix> Oooh Matrix is on.
<zmoylan-pi> isn't the matrix always on? :-p
<smittix> ha YEah
<smittix> Although I have seen the movie countless times I still enjoy it.
<diddledan> I turned it off the other night
<zmoylan-pi> it's... meh, good but not great
<smittix> But saying that any movie with tech/hackers in it I will sit and watch on repeat
<diddledan> apparently the shock killed a few people
<zmoylan-pi> best hacker movie is malcolm
<zmoylan-pi> no computers whatsoever
<SuperEngineer> you turned the Matrix off?  genocide!
<diddledan> smittix, even hackers the worst tech movie evar. great fun
<smittix> diddledan: Exactly I love it and always will it's a fun movie.
<diddledan> heck yeah
<zmoylan-pi> my guilty pleasure is hackers, great soundtrack, silly plot, hack the gibson :-)
<smittix> diddledan: Wargames, Sneakers, Antitrust, Takedown love them all.
<diddledan> smittix, me too
<smittix> zmoylan-pi: I second that GREAT soundtrack.
<diddledan> hackers even has rollerblading!
<smittix> zmoylan-pi: Orbital at the begining w00t
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091464/ has trams :-)
<smittix> diddledan: I'd love a hangout like "Cyberdelia" in Hackers.
<shauno> almost relevant; "my face when" I realised that zero cool is sherlock from Elementary.
<zmoylan-pi> try your local hacker space
<smittix> I've been meaning to
<smittix> shauno: Heh good old Jonny Miller
<diddledan> isn't that his first job since hackers? :-p
<zmoylan-pi> well he married angelina jolie so he was busy
<smittix> heh
<smittix> HACK THE PLANET!
<diddledan> I think I might have to watch it now
<shauno> I was more just shocked that I got through 2 years of Elementary without noticing
<zmoylan-pi> but get and watch malcolm for a great hacker movie with great music
<smittix> Yeah it's making me feel that way.
<smittix> zmoylan-pi: Will do!
<smittix> I enjoyed Pirates of silicon valley too.
<zmoylan-pi> and real genius is good too
<smittix> But I must say even inaccurate story, Takedown is my favourite.
<smittix> zmoylan-pi: Pi!
<shauno> and if your local hackerspace looks like that, I'm well jealous.  ours looks like a very generic office, except the adults have been out of town for 6 months.
<smittix> shauno: Do you play wipeout on 25 CRT monitors
<shauno> it doesn't help that most the furniture was cast-offs from HP's office, so it has a genuine cube-farm thing going on
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't everyone use projectors for big screens now?
<smittix> heh
<diddledan> shauno, it was actually filmed in an empty swiming pool
<SuperEngineer> erm... if it's empty - it's not a swimming pool!
<zmoylan-pi> it's a skateboard park
<shauno> now you've got me wondering what the proper term for an empty swimming pool would be.
<shauno> and I probably shouldn't google it, since I spent the afternoon looking up reactor designs (for minecraft)
<smittix> heh
<smittix> When I google things I can start on raspberry pi's and end up on Cat Pics
<foobarry> just took autism test. 30-34= possible autism 35+ autism 0-29 no autism
<foobarry> score=29 lol
<smittix> heh
<diddledan> shauno, reactors inisde empty swimming pools sounds like a fun thing to do
<foobarry> mathematicians can often look aspie without being aspie
<foobarry> just because i like numbers
<shauno> diddledan, have you seen where they store spent fuel at sellafield?  it looks like a swimming pool.  with a crane.
<foobarry> i knew someone who worked at sellafield
<foobarry> he was rathe prematurely bald
<foobarry> coincidence i'm sure
<smittix> My 15 week old cocker spaniel is growling at him self in the fire place. :/
<shauno> I wouldn't worry, unlesses he loses the fight that comes next ..
<smittix> heh
<SuperEngineer> smittix: that's in case Santa is early
<smittix> He's let the fire plac win and is now trying to eat my RTLSDIR Dongle
<smittix> My Desk atm = Living room floor.
<SuperEngineer> every dog has it's day - go to the pet shop & buy it a day!
<smittix> ;D
<smittix> He likes the noises from my SDR app.
<smittix> Does anyone use G+? I mean actually use it?
<foobarry> define "use"
<foobarry> i use it in readonly mode
<foobarry> like i do twitter
<foobarry> i read g+ instead of buying a tech magazine
<popey> i do
<popey> i use G+ more than any other social network really
<Myrtti> I use it
<smittix> popey: I love it you're about the only active person on mine heh
<smittix> foobarry: I tried stalking you a while ago and couldn't find you.
<foobarry> smittix: readonly mode, i don't really write stuff
<popey> i follow about 2000 people
<smittix> popey: I try and keep my numbers low so I don't miss anything
<foobarry> popey: got a top ten ppl you would recommend?
<foobarry> or 3 :P
<popey> hah
<smittix> I do like G+ Better than any other social site.
<foobarry> what happened to joey OMG ?
<smittix> I just wish more of my contacts used it.
<foobarry> i used to enjoy omg as a guilty pleasure
<foobarry> not any more
<foobarry> for a long time in fact
<smittix> What do you read now?
<foobarry> mixture of stuff on g+ , webupd8, slashdot, the verge (but i'm about to remove them for relentless apple advertising), sjvn, simon phipps, etc
<foobarry> android stuff too
<popey> foobarry: he seems to focus more on chrome
<diddledan> I would love to be a g+ addict but my family don't post there so I need to be on facebook and I don't like splitting my infinitives
<smittix> popey: I have noticed that. He makes me jealous, I want a Chromebook. :(
<shauno> I really wish amazon would tell me *why* it can't ship things to Ireland.  sometimes it just makes no sense at all
<foobarry> facebook i rarely post an update without a photo
<foobarry> and i know my audience well and share more personal stuff
<foobarry> i should post on g+ more but its the chicken egg thing
<foobarry> when you don't have many followers it feels talking to youtself
<foobarry> i keep thinking xbox one = original xbox
<smittix> foobarry: I know what you mean.
<smittix> I need to go watch Hackers now because of diddledan
<shauno> possibly the most benign thing I've seen him blamed for in a looong time.
<diddledan> lol
<Azelphur> Does anyone know of any vnc-like solutions that support something like x11vncs -clip option?
<daftykins> do you guys ever install that laptop-mode-tools package on your laptop installs?
<diddledan> nope
<daftykins> i feel like just having Firefox open on this old Sony laptop (xubuntu) warms it up
<daftykins> (no tabs)
<ali1234> Azelphur: why dont you just use x11vnc?
<Azelphur> ali1234: because it's slower than a snail.
<ali1234> well what do you expect? it's vnc
<Azelphur> ali1234: other solutions (nx, teamviewer, etc) are much faster
<Azelphur> but they don't have a -clip option and the only Android client has shit multi monitor support
<ali1234> what are you trying to do?
<ali1234> android as a monitor?
<Azelphur> ali1234: exactly
<ali1234> that's never going to be fast
<Azelphur> ali1234: doesn't need to be /fast/ but at least not slow as balls
<ali1234> i recommend this
<Azelphur> ali1234: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkl4h5W4Bjc&t=1m28s for example is ok
<ali1234> xfbdev -> mencoder -> h264 stream -> vlc on android
<Azelphur> interesting
<Azelphur> that would certainly be faster and smoother
<Azelphur> and I don't need input
<ali1234> yeah. you would get artefacts though
<daftykins> people come up with some odd use-cases :)
<Azelphur> that's ok, you seem to get artefacts on airdisplay too
<ali1234> yeah, i figure you'd use synergy or something to share the input
 * daftykins does the open-mouthed point and stare at Azelphur
<daftykins> ;D
<ali1234> alternatively, write a gadgetfs driver for usb2vga
<ali1234> that shouldn't be particularly hard
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha, above me, but if you wrote it you could sell it and make lots of money :P
<ali1234> i bet someone already has
<ali1234> actually you remember that g19 emulator i wrote?
<Azelphur> yup
<ali1234> you could base it off that
<Azelphur> I see :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: my C++ skills are nonzero now, I actually wrote some basic things recently \o/
<ali1234> then use the g18 framebuffer driver, and run X on it
<ali1234> all you need to do is port the emulator to android
<Azelphur> ali1234: then I'd have to use something like xdmx which doesn't work / isn't really supported
<ali1234> and make it run fullscreen
<ali1234> no you wouldn't
<ali1234> you would still use synergy
<ali1234> same as with x11vnc
<Azelphur> ali1234: no, no synergy here
<Azelphur> I can drag windows across
<ali1234> well you can screen scrape the X server and copy it into the framebuffer
<Azelphur> I see
<ali1234> actually the easiest way might be to mjpeg it and stream that
<ali1234> the possibilities are endless really
<Azelphur> yea, I never thought of the VLC option, this will no doubt be superior
<ali1234> sending a h264 stream will probably work well, if you can hardware encode it
<ali1234> this is what onlive does
<ali1234> and it works pretty well
<Azelphur> ali1234: happen to know what I'd do to VLC to make it do this? or is it instruction manual time
<ali1234> play a network stream?
<ali1234> playing the stream is the easy part
<Azelphur> ali1234: nah, the server side part
<ali1234> well, there's a vnc client that records a video
<Azelphur> I'm sure vlc has a screen capture option
<Azelphur> yes, vlc screen://
<ali1234> oh, okay... so you just need to stream that onto the network
<ali1234> test locally first
<Azelphur> yea, I am
<ali1234> ffmpeg can also do this, and probably better
<Azelphur> oO, vlc screen:// --screen-left 1366 --screen-fps 10 seems very nice
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's my local test done then, it works locally
<ali1234> yeah now you need to run two vlc locally and stream from one to the other
<Azelphur> do you happen to know what I'd do to tell VLC to go into a server-ish mode?
<ali1234> use the gui
<Azelphur> ali1234: I was kinda hoping to turn this into a bash script
<ali1234> the gui shows you the command line to use
<Azelphur> oh, cool
<ali1234> this doesn't capture mouse pointer btw
<Azelphur> ali1234: I did notice, I hope VLC has an option for it
<Azelphur> yes, it looks like it does
<Azelphur> ali1234: any recommendations on stream type? HTTP, MS-WMSP, RTSP, RTP / MPEG Transport Stream, RTP Audio/Video Profile, UDP (Legacy), IceCast
<ali1234> well you don't want the broadcast types, that will eat bandwidth all the time
<ali1234> http probably a good first choice
<Azelphur> ok
<Azelphur> Video - H.264 + MP3 (MP4)?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> probably don't need audio
<Azelphur> yea, can't see any non-audio options
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://pastebin.com/u75LUaX6 it doesn't seem happy with me
<Azelphur> even the example on the wiki doesn't work xD
<ali1234> yeah the vlc docs are awful
<ali1234> that's why i suggested mencoder
<ali1234> likely the problem here is frame size
<Azelphur> I'm open to use that instead :)
<Azelphur> can mencoder do screen capture?
<ali1234> ffmpeg can, and mencoder uses ffmpeg
<Azelphur> ali1234: I do a google search for mencoder screen capture, all the results are for ffmpeg haha
<zmoylan-pi> last time i wanted to screen capture i used recordmydesktop though it was in 2013
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: yea, we are aiming to stream it though
<zmoylan-pi> then some form of goat or yak to sacrifice to the gods of encoding then i'd advise :-)
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> got it working :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: ooo, do share
<ali1234> cvlc -vvv screen:// --screen-width 1920 --screen-height 1080 --screen-fps 10  :sout='#transcode{vcodec=mjpeg}:std{access=http, mux=ps,dst="0.0.0.0:8080"}'
<ali1234> vlc http://localhost:8080/
<ali1234> enjoy grainy desktop video stream :)
<ali1234> there is lag though, due to buffering
<Azelphur> ali1234: I get "cannot pre fill buffer" errors on the client
<ali1234> hmm wait
<ali1234> it was just working
<Azelphur> haha, broke it
<ali1234> change mjpeg to mp4v and then there's a 30 second delay
<Azelphur> ouch,  haha
<Azelphur> yea, it works, just the delay is bad :P
<ali1234> test
<ali1234> now i see it :)
<Azelphur> ooo
<Azelphur> do share :)
<ali1234> well we need to tweak the codec options clearly
<ali1234> adding vb=800 fixes the quality
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> ali1234: what about the delay?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-20
<Azelphur> ali1234: what about UDP streaming without a buffer?
<Azelphur> that would probably be faster
<ali1234> it still buffers
<Azelphur> oh
<Azelphur> maybe a way to shorten the buffer time
<ali1234> it may work better
<ali1234> you'll have to experiment :)
<ali1234> you'll also need to find a good codec that android can play reasonably fast
<ali1234> i think this idea has legs though
<ali1234> i mean if onlive can do it, we should be able to do it too
<zmoylan-pi> mxplayer on android is fairly decent at playing video on android
<zmoylan-pi> sorry, you're streaming, brain is fried with lack of sleep
<ali1234> the delay might simply be introduced by encoding
<ali1234> in which case figuring out how to use mjpeg with the mpjpeg mux will probably help
<ali1234> cos mjpeg is fast
<ali1234> though best results would come from gpu accelerated encoding
<Azelphur> ali1234: have you noticed the errors it spews out when using mjpeg?
<ali1234> yes, you can't put mjpeg in a program stream
<ali1234> you have to use mux=mpjpeg, but i can't get it to work
<ali1234> that's all i know
<Azelphur> D:
<ali1234> http://www.videolan.org/doc/streaming-howto/en/ch03.html
<Azelphur> what about using h264?
<ali1234> afaik that's the same as mpeg4
<Azelphur> ah, so latency and buffering
<ali1234> yes, you will need to really tweak the options to get it fast
<Azelphur> yea, I am just looking through that link, there seems to be some buffer-size options
<ali1234> you could also investigate what steamOS does
<ali1234> with the streaming stuff
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> someone has probably reverse engineered it by now
<Azelphur> this might also be a good question for #vlc
<ali1234> imagine if they added the streaming client to the android steam client... that would be killer
<ali1234> also, you could just use it
<Azelphur> indeed
<diddledan> I need season 3 of continuum now
<diddledan> I'm hooked
<daftykins> i just finished s2 too!
<daftykins> pretty mad final episode huh O_O
<diddledan> heck yeah
<daftykins> it's like the writers woke up
<diddledan> indeed, they decided: let's fudge with everything
<daftykins> did you happen to look up whether s3 has finished airing yet?
<diddledan> htf can they leave cameron in a box?!
<diddledan> I think it has
<daftykins> haha, yeah they're like pets
<diddledan> and the bloke cop (I can never remember his name and definitely can't spell it) turning up at theseus'!?!
<diddledan> that blew my mind
<daftykins> bad Betty.
<daftykins> she was in Stargate Universe! :)
<diddledan> looks like showcase has finished airing s3
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> if you live in the states you can stream it off showcase.ca
 * diddledan ponders whether to activate a vpn
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> netflix in the uk only got s2 a week ago so I don't expect them to get rights to s3 for another 6 months at least
<daftykins> you are a far too scrupulous individual sir
<diddledan> heh
<diddledan> I've nearly got the second half of s3 downloaded but I'm missing 8,9,10 and 1-5
 * zmoylan-pi is watching real genius
<daftykins> what's that?
<zmoylan-pi> an ancient geeky film http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089886/
<daftykins> hmm Remmina RDP client is quite good
<zmoylan-pi> used it when i first started with my pi.  it would occasionly crash for no reason i could find.
<daftykins> how rude!
<daftykins> i have ubuntu on a guys breakfast room PC, he called up this morning because he wanted to RDP to his office PC from the other side of the house whilst looking after his baby son
<zmoylan-pi> i don't mind crashes as long as i can track down why and eliminate the problems
<daftykins> i was too bleary eyed and unfamiliar to suggest how to connect to it :> will have to sort that tomorrow
<zmoylan-pi> and you can rdp from an android tablet if you really really want.
<zmoylan-pi> but it's not fun
<zmoylan-pi> now if you can get remote desktop from a baby monitor you'd sew up the geeky parents market :-)
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> actually a friends gf at the pub quiz tonight was saying how she wants to buy a new phone, ditch her current iPhone 4
<daftykins> but she needs to be able to see change tracking in MS word docs, so was thinking she'd have to get a Windows phone
<daftykins> so i pulled my phone out and demo'd RDP'ing home over HSPA ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i thought ms office worked best on iphone these days?
<daftykins> not sure on that one
<zmoylan-pi> the winphone version was slightly behind as they have bugger all market share
 * zmoylan-pi goes to check...
<daftykins> where would you look? the office mobile page wasn't hugely detailed on feature set
<zmoylan-pi> and the words office is so generic as to be useless in search terms.  feckin ms naming system ::mutter mutter::
<Azelphur> ali1234: I did some testing with teamviewer that seems to work reasonably well, https://home.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=6d032c8c2d9af6ab3106c7264d7749dd
<Azelphur> I will have to stab at vlc some more soon
<zmoylan-pi> that took too long to find.  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06/05/first_ios_now_android_to_get_fondleslab_office_ahead_of_windows/
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: hehe, ty
<zmoylan-pi> now i'm sure when the winphone gets out it'll be extra wonderful but till then
<zmoylan-pi> and having played with wince 1,2,3, pocket pc 95, 97, winmobile 5,6,6.5 and winphone 7 i'd advise to steer clear of winphone
<daftykins> haha, absolutely
<daftykins> i had an HTC Touch Diamond, kinda felt like being at the beginning of the final slog to a true smartphone
<daftykins> i like to call it the "partially educated phone"
<zmoylan-pi> and the old classic 101 reasons not to buy a winphone http://my-symbian.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44034
<diddledan> daftykins, first ep of s3 is wow
 * diddledan just fini
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> that's another series I need to watch - defiance - I saw the first couple on sky but then promptly forgot
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> morning SuperMatt :)
<SuperMatt> It's home time now right?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: not quite :D
<SuperMatt> dang it
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: it's early, have you been at work awhile?
<SuperMatt> no
<SuperMatt> just got here
<MooDoo> lol hope you're not getting disheartened about your job already ;)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> mornig brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: weeeeell, I really do enjoy what we do here, but there are issues - namely staffing levels do not match ticket volumes
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: aint that the issue everywhere?  It certainly was in my last job in support
<SuperMatt> very true, but even though we're already breaking, we have quite a large number of people on holiday too
<MooDoo> yeah holidays can be a problem, but you can only do what you can do :D
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: you're fanatical, you can deal with it :D
<SuperMatt> sure, I do understand that, but I just would have liked some management forethought to, y'know, prevent this level of absense
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: lol there's your issue there, thinking management think ;) lol
<SuperMatt> yes yes, I know
<zmoylan-pi> it's august, everyone buggers off on holiday in august
<SuperMatt> except, it seems, my customers
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: you'll be fine :D the job is everything you've wanted so crack on a do your best lol
<zmoylan-pi> well now you get indundated with their problems as the people who normally keep things going there are also on holliers
<MooDoo> yeah but if it's a well run setup, you can take over other ppeoples tickets so it shouldn't be a problem
<zmoylan-pi> 'where's the any key?' :-/
<MooDoo> my cup holder is broken ;) [cdrom]
<shauno> just got the strangest bout of spam.  they appear to be using a pdf file as their wordlist for names.  so I have senders such as "Steven endobj" and "Veronica %PDF-1.5"
<zmoylan-pi> when spammers can't be bothered to make fake names...
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Mosquito Day! :-D
<Myrtti> ...
<shauno> what's happy about mosquitos?
<Myrtti> that's exactly what I was going to ask
<diddledan> my thinks exactly
<JamesTait> I'm sure the mosquitos that don't get swatted are quite happy.
<JamesTait> Also, we know about the link between mosquitos and malaria transmission - that's surely worth celebrating. :)
<foobarry> the DH Mosquito was a great plane
<zmoylan-pi> mosquitos!? where?! http://bugasalt.com/
<zmoylan-pi> it's the praise the mosquito got from goering that makes it funnier http://www.tommcmahon.net/2010/10/hermann-goering-on-the-de-havilland-mosquito-the-most-versatile-plane-of-world-war-two-that-was-made.html
<foobarry> i have a pic somewhere of the mossie goign under the eiffel tower
<zmoylan-pi> i saw a video of the version where they mounted the recoilless field gun for submarine hunting been tested
<popey> Morning.
<knightwise> mornings popey
<MooDoo> morning popey knightwise
<davmor2> JamesTait: that reminds me of a joke
<davmor2> JamesTait: Man put up an ad $100,000 to the man who can guarantee something that will kill 100% of mosquitos.  Scientists beavered away and got to 87% but no further, the day before the guy travels a boy hands him a bag, sir this is guaranteed to kill 100% of the mosquitos you use it on.
<davmor2> JamesTait: The man hands over the $100,000 and the boy races off,  The man opens the bag an inside is an ornate box, He opens the box and inside are two big metal plates.  Under those are instructions, Place mosquito on plate a squash with plate b
<davmor2> guarantee 100% dead
<popey> Foolproof
<JamesTait> Profit!
<zmoylan-pi> i want the auto laser gizmo they demonstrated a few years back.  zap the little sods
<shauno> I like the ones that look like a cross between a tennis racket, and an electric fence
<zmoylan-pi> i did see a giant fly swatter 1 metre long and capable of winging an albatross
<zmoylan-pi> and i got a spring powered pistol that fires a 3" circular disk at passing flies which is fun
<shauno> these things - http://amzn.com/B008G4AFDY
<awilkins> I saw one at my sisters and wondered why it needed to be electric
<awilkins> Because the impact of a wire at that kind of speed would be lethal, but I see the bit about "fruit flies" now
<zmoylan-pi> nah flies have so little mass that they just bounce off it otherwise
<shauno> you can't discount the entertainment value either ;)
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: think i'm with you right now, time to go home? lol
<popey> http://bugasalt.com/ is what you want for fly killing
<shauno> that doesn't look like it'd be fair on the roomba
<popey> keeps the roomba employed
<popey> although I expect flies tend not to be at ground level when shot
<shauno> yeah, there's just that pesky gravity stuff.  the salt has to go somewhere
<Myrtti> shauno: how does a roomba work on carpet?
<Myrtti> is it any good?
<shauno> haven't tried yet, I don't have any carpet
<MooDoo> I would of thought it would depend on the length of the carpet.
<Myrtti> oh.
<shauno> that was part of the reason I got it - all hardwood & no stairs seemed like the ideal playground for it
<Myrtti> well yes, it's dependant on that, I just assumed that since you silly britons tend to have on average a carpet, maybe shauno'd have an average pill length carpet.
<shauno> yeah, I got a weird place.  wood on the floors, wood on the ceilings ..
<Myrtti> sounds... scandinavian
<zmoylan-pi> or they live in a shipping crate :-)
<knightwise> hmmm . its a paradox, but a windows pro tablet makes for the perfect chromebook
<knightwise> and ks pretty spiffy to use as a linux thin client
<zmoylan-pi> the new cheap windows notachromebooks look interesting too and as cheap
<shauno> I wish!  I have "housing boom" housing.  a shipping crate would have been better built
<zmoylan-pi> it amazes me that the prefab housing built after wwii is still knocking around with few problems but modern housing falls apart before your toaster
<shauno> literally.  I have windows that don't fit the frames, with kitchen-towels tucked in to keep the wind out
<MooDoo> wtf?  really?
<shauno> the backdoor opens properly when it's sunny.  if it's cold, it requires a wrench.
<Myrtti> polyurethane foam
<Myrtti> for the windows
<shauno> (I also have the cheapest rent in town .. go figure)
<zmoylan-pi> you might want to be careful making house in uk ireland windproof, if it's on granite radon gas needs a breeze to disperse it
<knightwise> join #oggcastplanet
 * zmoylan-pi doesn't wonder where knightwise is off too :-)
<knightwise> sowwy
<knightwise> :p
<zmoylan-pi> at least it wasn't a password
<knightwise> touchscreen keyboard..
<knightwise> lol
<awilkins> Any recommendations for the laptop of a road warrior? Getting a new job and I guess I'll be needing one.
<MooDoo> awilkins: what you doing ?
<awilkins> MooDoo, "Technical Architect" which will mean a certain amount of visiting customers and getting their requirements
<awilkins> For the healthcare market ; going to work for Nant Health
<awilkins> Cancer informatics, that kind of stuff. Lots of integration things I think.
<MooDoo> awilkins: congrats :D
<awilkins> Ta :-)  feet were getting a little leaden in my current position
<awilkins> I like the Lenovo that is my current issue laptop
<awilkins> So I will probably get something from their range
<MooDoo> awilkins: yeah that's why I moved too.
<awilkins> An old colleague who works for them now headhunted me, which is always flattering
<zmoylan-pi> and they got a bonus?
<awilkins> Dunno
<awilkins> Can't get him drunk and ask, he's a hindu
<zmoylan-pi> that probably rules out dragging them over hot coals too... :-p
<awilkins> Only if he cracks under the pressure of spa therapy :-)
<MooDoo> awilkins: kinda what happened to me lol
<MooDoo> awilkins: ooo never thought of getting my new boss ratted as a thank you lol must try it
<ujjain> did the UK economy have a massive crash in 2007-2008? I am seeing GBP value going up so much then from 1.5 to 1.15
<ujjain> http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=EUR&view=10Y
<ujjain> 1.52 to 1.05 actually.
<awilkins> Erm : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%9308
<ali1234> tl;dr the whole world did
<awilkins> The GBP probably suffered greatly because we have more idiot bankers per Square Mile.
<ujjain> Yeah, Europe/Holland suffered a lot too, but the EUR-currency went up a lot I guess.
<directhex> interesting - http://www.phonearena.com/news/With-the-same-battery-HTC-One-M8-for-Windows-listed-to-have-nearly-double-the-battery-life-of-the-One-M8-for-Android_id59571
<directhex> also, nexus 6 specs leak. another gargantuphone. 5.2" screen
<directhex> http://www.phonearena.com/news/Motorola-Shamu-aka-Nexus-6-full-specs-leak-5.2-QHD-screen-Snapdragon-805-and-Android-L_id59287
<ali1234> shamu?
<popey> drussell: because it has no apps? â»
<popey> er, oops
<popey> ignore me â»
<drussell> popey: consider it done :o)
<popey> haha
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> moin
<ali1234> what is a decent unzip program for mac that supports passwords?
<awilkins> 7zip ?
<awilkins> http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/19139/ez7z
<ali1234> alsa has to be gui and downloadable from a trustworthy website
<awilkins> Bah, GUIs
<awilkins> Doesn't OSX have a supplied archive program with a GUI?
<ali1234> yes but it doesn't support password protected zip files
<shauno> 'the unarchiver' works really well.  just don't get it from the appstore because sandboxing and archiving is a bad combination  (it's free either way)
<mapps> god damn
<mapps> in a queue again with student loan co
<mapps> every time i ring
<directhex> paid mine off \o/
<arsen> nicely done.
<mapps> yea so i have
<mapps> overpaid infact
<mapps> so need to send april-july payslip and p60 and get them to refund
<mapps> but i dunno where im supposed to send to or if i can email
<arsen> do they just continue to collect until the EOY?
<mapps> yep
<arsen> wtf
<mapps> till next april starts
<mapps> yea
<arsen> im gona overpay significantly
<mapps> basically u have to phone them and say you think yuve paid it off
<mapps> then send copies of payslips/p60 and they credit your overpayment within 21 days
<arsen> crazy
<arsen> they shouldnt have the ability to overcharge you
<mapps> totally barmy scenario..the statement you get where it says you owe Â£1000 or whatever..thats the same as the see on the screens at stident loan co say 8months later..they dont seem to update like say a normal loan would
<mapps> and instead all the payments u make get taken off it in one go at the end of the year
<mapps> very odd
<arsen> yeah it only updates annually
<mapps> yep
<mapps> stupid eh
<mapps> not exactly normal
<mapps> i spent ages getting accewss to my account online only to find its useless..it showed the same as the statement from a year prior
<directhex> the problem is whilst the money is collected by HMRC monthly on your paycheque via PAYE, the payments are made by HMRC to SLC annually
<mapps> 2mins 30 more and il hang up..i only bother queuing for 10mins a time
<directhex> so they only know your balance *accurately* once a year
<directhex> the rest of the year is estimated
<mapps> total nonsense no directhex ?
<directhex> i don't make the rules
<mapps> i know:P
<arsen> wel
<arsen> i last checked in march
<arsen> lets ee how i did..
<mapps> got through just before i hung up:D
<arsen> gotta love that i have to reset it everytime i login
<arsen> oh goodie, it still hasnt got 2014 data
<arsen> clearly it's a life ambition of mine to pay off my student loan asap.
<arsen> gona be another year i suspect, though i'm only paying via HMRC. i guess technically it'd be beneficial to pay it off early
<diddledan> http://www.hotforsecurity.com/blog/chrome-web-browser-toughens-up-blocking-deceptive-downloads-9956.html
<diddledan> and.. keep digging that hole microsoft. http://www.hotforsecurity.com/blog/some-windows-7-pcs-bricked-by-microsoft-after-faulty-patch-tuesday-update-9945.html
<mapps> hah nice diddledan
<mapps> nice ms updated
<mapps> :D
<mapps> *updates
<diddledan> https://fsf.org/blogs/community/gnu-hackers-discover-hacienda-government-surveillance-and-give-us-a-way-to-fight-back
<controversy> any1 online?
<zmoylan-pi> hi
<controversy> what is best irc app for ubuntu?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-21
<zmoylan-pi> and tonights movie is clue.  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088930/
<davmor2> Morning all
<Myrtti> morning
<mapps> never gonna learn am i
<mapps> hey Myrtti
<Myrtti> hey mapps
<knightwise> Morning everyone
<knightwise> installed ubuntu server on my mac mini last weekend.
<Myrtti> knightwise: \o/
<OERIAS> I installed Ubuntu 6.04 on an iBook G4
<knightwise> OERIAS: seriously ?
<knightwise> why such an old version
<knightwise> there are PPC versions out for 12.04
<knightwise> On the mac mini , i did notice it was running hot .. installed lmsensors and now its cooling down nicely
<mapps> gonna have to fly from gib -> london then london -> moscow in january
<mapps> :(
<mapps> didnt realise id be moving
<mapps> when i booked my flights
<knightwise> Myrtti: its a perfect little server , silent, small and powerfull
<knightwise> the I7 with 16 gigs of ram knows what to do all day long runnign about 5 virtual servers all the time
<Myrtti> yeah, we've got one too as a living room computer
<Myrtti> we've got different kit to act as a server, though
<Myrtti> HP microserver and a ReadyNAS with 4x4TB dribes
<knightwise> I have hooked up a 3tb usb drive for storage and thats mostly all I need
<Myrtti> drives, in RAID5
<knightwise> hmmm..... i'm drooling over one of those
<knightwise> what  OS do you run on that microserver ?
<Myrtti> Debian
<knightwise> and just as a fileserver or does it also do other things ?
<knightwise> (plex for example)
<Myrtti> it's not even a file server, NAS takes care of that
<Myrtti> it's a VM host
<knightwise> so you have a  hp microserver as a vm host ?
<Myrtti> one VM for plex, one for my irssi needs, and some dsample's projects he has every now and then
<knightwise> what specs does it have ? The ones I saw were like 2 gigs of ram and an amd proc
<Myrtti> yeah
<knightwise> so what are the specs on your microserver ?
<Myrtti> it used to have harddrives on it it but dsample decided to slap them all to a NAS
<knightwise> aha
<knightwise> and what cpu does it have  ?/ how much ram ?
<Myrtti> after a harddrive with one copy of photo backups went pearshaped
<Myrtti> I'll have a look, don't have the info off hand
<knightwise> I copy our music and our pictures to a 500 gig Hd i've hooked up to our router.
<knightwise> and all the important infor for our business is in the cloud or  backuped on a vm in canada
<Myrtti> yeah I've got multiple backups of photos
<Myrtti> too paranoid to leave it for just one harddrive located in the house
<knightwise> true. I'm thinking of ramming all our pics in Google drive or something
<Myrtti> http://sprunge.us/DBeT - yeah it's a 2GB ram one with an AMD cpu. could have more RAM but I'm not complaining, it's still faster for my irssi needs than the Viglen MPC-L was
<knightwise> 8 euros a month gets you unliited storage now.
<knightwise> I can buy one of those microservers for 200 euro ... worth it ?
<Myrtti> I've got all my photos in Flickr, 25â¬ a year for unlimited
<Myrtti> I don't know if they offer that to new customers
<Myrtti> I've paid for it since yonks
<knightwise> Myrtti: me too ..almost up to 700 pics
<knightwise> 7000
<Myrtti> 6002 for me
<knightwise> Myrtti: flickr.com/knightwise
<knightwise> ok , i found an hp microserver with 4 gigs of ram ...
<knightwise> no drives inside .. but still nice.
<Myrtti> You've got a DOGE?!
<OERIAS> knightwise, later on I did install 14.04 for MacMini
<knightwise> OERIAS: are you running it on a mac mini or a powerbook ?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Myrtti> shibas are awesome
<knightwise> Myrtti: yep :) The original DOGE ;) So Wow ! Âµ
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey knightwise
<knightwise> Myrtti: shibas are cute loving and fracking stubborn
<OERIAS> Both
<Myrtti> I love spitzes
<OERIAS> I have an iBook G4, Powerbook G4, MacMini G4
<knightwise> OERIAS: i ran 12.04 on a G4 mac mini for a while. not bad if you used the LXDE interface
<Myrtti> spitzes are awesome dogs
<knightwise> bummer was :  no flash and stuff
<OERIAS> PowerMac G5.
<knightwise> the MacMini G4 is pretty great for a server , the G5 just eats uranium rods for breakfast. Those beats suck power
<brobostigon> <----- hangover central, made the mistake of having a drink with my ex-fiance,
<knightwise> Myrtti: those are cool to
<knightwise> brobostigon: ouch
<brobostigon> exactly.
<OERIAS> knightwise, 14.04 doesn't run bad with CDE
<Myrtti> shibas aren't spitzes? aw. Learn new every day
<knightwise> CDE ?
<OERIAS> Yes. Common Desktop Environment
<knightwise> OERIAS: didnt know that one
<knightwise> Myrtti: no :) Shibas are a variant of the Akita Inu's
<brobostigon> was great to catchup with her though.
<Myrtti> knightwise: oh, then they are
<OERIAS> knightwise, http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/desktop/full/cde15solaris9.png
<Myrtti> "The Shiba Inu (æ´ç¬ ?) is the smallest of the six original and distinct spitz breeds of dog from Japan.[1]"
<knightwise> Myrtti: i stand corrected
<knightwise> OERIAS: ugly as hell , but very geeky :=)
<Myrtti> spitzes â¥
<knightwise> Irony : Ordering a 15inch I7 macbook pro for your company ... meanwhile working off a 10 inch 4 year old netbook ... and loving that even more.
<knightwise> using an old Medion netbook with LXLE , fast, cheap and geeky
<brobostigon> lxde*
<knightwise> lxLE
<knightwise> underappreciated OS if there ever was one.
<knightwise> good distro, light and clean.
 * knightwise has HSP , so I love non cluttered stuff
<brobostigon> cool, i shall have to look that one up.
<OERIAS> XFCE runs perfectly well on the G4s
<OERIAS> XFCE is waaaaaay better than LXDE
<knightwise> OERIAS: damn , i should have tried that
<knightwise> and you don't miss flash that much anymore
 * brobostigon is a haiku-os fan
<OERIAS> brobostigon, is it still in alpha stage?
<OERIAS> Other, I might consider running and help develop a port for powerpc machines
<knightwise> allthough I must say . I even use my Dell Venue 8 from time to time. all I need is a connection to the home linux server via SSH and a browser .. and I can pretty much do all I want
 * knightwise is a bit of slider
<brobostigon> OERIAS: yes, however its anything but alpha, its very stable, R1 is pretty close, except for a few bugs, also the packaging system is very impressive. they definatly could do with some help there, aswell as the ARM port.
<knightwise> i use all OS'es together.
<OERIAS> knightwise, you use WIndows 8????!!!!!
<knightwise> installed homebrew on my Mac .. now i can just run native commands and apps on my mac
<knightwise> OERIAS: www.knightwise.com  = hacks tips and tweaks for cross platform geeks :)
<OERIAS> Well at least it doesn't run Windows RT
<knightwise> OERIAS: I have my standards :p
<knightwise> NO RT
<knightwise> brobostigon: Haiku looks pretty
<knightwise> I'm going to pose a stupid question : Can you (in irssi) have 2 chat windows side by side (2 chatrooms i mean)
<brobostigon> knightwise: that it is, and very functional, and the fastest OS you will find this side of pluto.
<knightwise> hmmm. i might give it a try :)
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> knightwise: cool. :)
<brobostigon> morning popey
<OERIAS> morning popey
<OERIAS> Lovely SeaMonkey
<brobostigon> knightwise: and if you do try haiku, go with a nightly. as the last stable release is ancient, and doesnt include things like the packaging system.
<awilkins> This is looking nicer : http://oneplus.net/uk/one
<awilkins> Will have to see how Android L affects my poor old Nexus 4
<knightwise> brobostigon: i'll give it a spin in a VM :=)
 * knightwise ist geeking out to youarelistening.to
<brobostigon> knightwise: cool, :)
<awilkins> Is this a live feed from a Copper Chopper?
<knightwise> awilkins: you can choose all kinds of livestreams
<knightwise> interesting stuff
<knightwise> and the ambient music in the back makes it eerie
<awilkins> Channel I've got has no music
<awilkins> Los Angeles
<knightwise> awilkins: it takes a minute to start
 * awilkins switches to Wichita
<knightwise> try the "numbers station" thats bizarre
<awilkins> Numbers stations are
<knightwise> ive always wondered about their purpose
<OERIAS> Too bad the OnePlusOne does not have external storage.
<Myrtti> awilkins: sorry but I refuse to even click that link because of the marketing gaffe they did few weeks back with the 'show us your tits and you can buy a oneplus at normal price' pile of failure they did
<awilkins> OERIAS, True, but with a 64GB model at Â£270 I wouldn't need too much external storage... does it support that thing where it's a USB host as well as a client?
<awilkins> Myrtti, That's ... disappointing
<OERIAS> true, only thing we can do is demand, it shouldn't hurt.
<Myrtti> say again?
<awilkins> I think he means an SD Card slot, and not intimate photos
<Myrtti> I hope so
<knightwise> Myrtti: that was their marketing campain ? ? ?
<Myrtti> knightwise: http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/12/oneplus-cancels-its-dumb-contest-following-uproars-of-sexism/
<knightwi1e> clear
<knightwi1e> one one thousand ... two one thousand ...
<knightwi1e> 90's kids will get this
<Myrtti> oh no, my coffee cup is empty
<popey> http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/bukkit-its-time-to-say-goodbye.305106/  vs   https://twitter.com/jeb_/status/502380018216206336
<popey> minecraft related
<MartijnVdS> popey: ooh more drama in game land
<MartijnVdS> It seems to be drama week..
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Senior Citizens Day! :-D
<popey> yeah, not enough drama llamas in gaming, clearly
 * zmoylan-pi waves a cane in blessing over JamesTait 
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: followed by a "now get off my lawn"
<MartijnVdS> ?
<zmoylan-pi> of course MartijnVdS, the standard blessing
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, it would be rude not to. ;)
<knightwi1e> morning everyone
<knightwi1e> senior citizens day ? ?
<knightwi1e> ** GET OFF MY LAWN YOU KIDS !!! ***
<DJones> popey: https://twitter.com/Dinnerbone/status/502381093731831808
<knightwi1e> MartijnVdS: you beat me to it
<MartijnVdS> popey: https://twitter.com/_grum/status/502381523241144320 (ex-coworker of mine!)
<foobarry> what is bukkit? a mincecraft mod?
<popey> yay
<popey> yes, quite a comprehensive one
<MartijnVdS> but someone is throwing a hissy fit?
<foobarry> does it turn pieces into real lego?
<foobarry> someone somewhere is always upset, thats why i avoid twitter
<foobarry> they congregate there
<knightwi1e> the whole ice bucket crap has made me dump facebook
<knightwi1e> (and every online newspaper i read)
<popey> they also congregate on reddit and 4chan
<MartijnVdS> they congregate everywhere
<popey> My neice is off to Reading festival today
<foobarry> oh no.
<foobarry> i just realised..rading festival = rain
<foobarry> but i'm at the air show
<foobarry> so rain = no planes
<knightwi1e> hmm. I should move over my data to my new server ...
<knightwi1e> start to do a copy from one drive to the other drive ... mount some folders .. get stuff done ...
<MartijnVdS> Go knightwi1e! Go knightwi1e!
<knightwi1e> decomissioning my old I5 Packard bell clunker in favor of my mac mini
<Myrtti> ice bucket
<Myrtti> hm.
<foobarry> the only ice bucket i saw was on the TV news
<knightwise> stupid social challenges histeria. Been going on all summer here.
<foobarry> i was disappointed to find that the cartoon i liked and followed on facebook has not been appearing in my feed for months :(
<knightwise> people daring eachother to jump off a bridge into a canal
<knightwise> 2 Darwin awards so far with lethal concequences.
<foobarry> wife said, did you see today's one? i tought WHAT?? i thought they had stopped
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: this is why you use an RSS reader -- facebook hides stuff
<foobarry> yes :(
<foobarry> but i think she only puts them on fb
<knightwise> I feel 'herded' when I use it
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: then she should pay facebook to increase the number of people who get to see it.. yes that is how it works...
<foobarry> maybe if i had one accoutn for every friend i could collect the whole picture
<knightwise> ...hmm been looking at dual monitor mounts for my 2 24 inch displays .. expensive sucjers.
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: or i click like on every cartoon of hers
<foobarry> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Em-Cartoons/148180005208895?fref=ts
<foobarry> the only funny cartoon around. xkcd is witty/thoughtful  though
<foobarry> my boy starts school in september. things are getting expensive
<awilkins> I liked Charlie Sheen's "ice bucket" challenge. He dumped $10,000 dollars over his head, donated it to the charity concerned, and dared several of his rich mates to do the same thing.
<awilkins> Oh yes : gripe about Duply / duplicity
<awilkins> It either needs to support a "maximum backup storage size" limit OR not moan about volume size when you give it a volume that's definitely large enough (what does it think is "too small" and why?)
<awilkins> Was setting up my Mum with backup
<awilkins> I thought "duplicity backups into a cloud-synced folder"
<awilkins> But if it exceeds the cloud allocation with historical backups, then it will be backing up and not being mirrored
<awilkins> So I thought "I'll make a loop file of the appropriate size and mount it at boot and backup to that" - duplicity will know when it's full and automatically remove old backups
<awilkins> But the duplicity moans about the volume being too small (even though it's about 10x the size of the files being backed up).
<knightwise> doesnt deja dup do it automatically ?
<popey> foobarry: "Back to school" all over the shops
<awilkins> knightwise, Doesn't have options for "limit total backup size to ...."
<bigcalm> Sell the child and go on holiday \o/
<awilkins> knightwise, And it's just a frontend for duplicity AFAIK
<knightwise> aha
<knightwise> cant you tell it to start dumping old backups when the destination is full ?
<awilkins> knightwise, It does do that - but - I'm backing up to a local folder on a large partition
<awilkins> knightwise, If I put that folder on a volume designed to fill up before the cloud folder does, it moans that it's too small
<awilkins> Apparently it thinks 20GB isn't good enough these days
<awilkins> (even for about 2GB of files)
<awilkins> Not sure where the threshold is, I've backed up to USB thumbs before..
<awilkins> Or whether it's to do with the way I had it set up
<popey> bigcalm: sounds like a plan. want to buy two children?
<bigcalm> popey: time to tweet therealpopey I think ;)
<popey> heh
<popey> she's at school with her pupils getting their GCSE's
<bigcalm> Bet she's glad to be back at work
<popey> hah, she's excited
<bigcalm> I think that my freshly installed windows 7 machine might just about be ready to use
<bigcalm> I hate my self
<bigcalm> So many restarts
<bigcalm> This amused me from last night: https://twitter.com/Windows/status/502233843706126337
<awilkins> I'd love myself after installing Windows 8.1 as well
<awilkins> Anything for some stress relief.
<bigcalm> If I didn't know that they believed themselves, I'd have thought they were trolling me
<bigcalm> Still installing updates. I even put in a spare SSD to help make it less sucky
<bigcalm> It's still sucky
<foobarry> bigcalm: that sounds like a bot tweet
<awilkins> Maybe that's what they are using Cortana for. It does sound like that kind of response.
<foobarry> maybe they search for hate windows 8,1
<awilkins> I remember having to reinstall Windows on the ex-wife's laptop because her IT department insisted that she use their horrible full-disk encryption product
<awilkins> Literally took all night
<awilkins> Reboot, reboot, reboot.
<foobarry> https://twitter.com/Bree_Elrod/status/501153180819156992
<MartijnVdS> â« We all live in a Windows subroutine
<bigcalm> Shouldn't the IT dept. have don't it?
<awilkins> Was her personal machine
<foobarry> https://twitter.com/kennethreynolds/status/497378323698184192
<foobarry> they are searching for hate windows 8.1 laptop
<bigcalm> :(
<foobarry> and sounds very bottish
<popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/2e5f04/since_2007_apple_has_released_9_phone_models/ made me chuckle
<Myrtti> I just have to ask you to double check what I'm seeing on the Maplin site
<Myrtti> http://www.maplin.co.uk/c/gadgets-toys-and-hobbies/projects-kits-and-modules/arduino
<Myrtti> is that a Nilfisk pressure washer?
<Myrtti> and http://www.maplin.co.uk/search?text=flora&x=0&y=0 - are those really automatic clamps?
<Myrtti> right, their site is useless.
<popey> haha
<Myrtti> arduino text search returns nothing but small OLED displays
<knightwise> hey :)
<knightwise> problem :(
<knightwise> i get an error code when I want to use webmin
<knightwise> installation on 14.04 works fine
<MartijnVdS> don't use webmin ;)
<knightwise> i add the webmin repository so i have version 1.700
<knightwise> and when I want to open one of those windows that lets you browse through the folders on your system I get the following error
<knightwise> HTTP/1.0 500 Perl execution failed Server: MiniServ/1.700 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 10:54:49 GMT Content-type: text/html; Charset=iso-8859-1 Connection: close
<knightwise> any ideas what it might be ?
<knightwise> on the other systems i'm running webmin version 1.690
<knightwise> just found the .1690 version,
<knightwise> gonna try that
<OERIAS> Does anyone here theme their Unity desktop?
<knightwise> yeah
<knightwise> numix :)
<OERIAS> knightwise, nice to know that other people theme and not "blindly" accept the silly themes that is somewhat imposed on the rest.
<knightwise> OERIAS: its the first thing i do when I use unity .. personalise it
<OERIAS> Mon Desktop:
<OERIAS> http://imgur.com/ff55Tr8
<OERIAS> knightwise ^
<knightwise> crud
<knightwise> server crashed :(
<SuperMatt> http://imgur.com/Gdwxk88 well here's my desktop
<knightwise> standard icons ! Get numix rounded icons :) very cool
<SuperMatt> I'm the one in the middle^w^w^won the right
<OERIAS> Am I the only on that thinks that rounded icons are for mobile phones?
<zmoylan-pi> hope your eye gets better :-p
<zmoylan-pi> microsoft doesn't :-)
<OERIAS> nice desktop.
<zmoylan-pi> first thing i always remove is background image, waste of ram
<OERIAS> You what my background image in xfce
<OERIAS> ?
<OERIAS> Or Window Maker,
<OERIAS> http://www.paulnoll.com/Colors/color-0522-Light-Pastel-Purple.jpg
<Myrtti> I've got four background images...
<OERIAS> Are you guys likely to find more desktops and notebook computer with Linux preinstalled in the UK?
<foobarry> more liekly than where?
<OERIAS> The American Empire
<awilkins> It's not really noticeable here
<awilkins> I think you have to go looking... Dell do some pre-installed machines I think.
<OERIAS> awilkins, Dell does but sometimes the specs are inferior than their Windows machines
<OERIAS> Much rather buy the Windows PC and wipe it off with a Slackware or Debian installation
<awilkins> OERIAS, When the netbooks were a new thing, the Linux ones often had better specs offset by the cost of a Windows OEM license
<awilkins> Personally I think I'll be sticking to Lenovo
<OERIAS> Yes they did. I remember when I lived in Canada, the first netbooks did have linux installed
<awilkins> With as much Intel hardware as possible
<awilkins> Intel do at least have the right attitude about drivers
<OERIAS> I actually liked IBM thinkpads over the Lenovo ones.
<foobarry> when shopping for a laptop i choose a compatible one first and foremost
<foobarry> even some with linux preinstalled may depend on dodgy binary blobs
<OERIAS> System76 is a personal favourite of mine.
<awilkins> I find it a shame that the laptops you see in physical shops are rarely the ones you want to buy
<awilkins> I struggled to find a family laptop which didn't have the stupid "consumer" screen res of 1280x768
<awilkins> Or whatever it is
<awilkins> The stupid 768 pixel high one
<MartijnVdS> 1366x768
<OERIAS> Yes and mobile phone have 1200*1080
<OERIAS> Why not notebooks?
<awilkins> I had a 1600x1200 15" screen on my first laptop for work, 15 years ago
<OERIAS> really awilkins ?
<awilkins> OERIAS, Yeah, nice Dell one.
<OERIAS> I remember a lot of notebooks had shitty screens back in the early 2000's
<bigcalm> !ohmy | OERIAS
<lubotu3> OERIAS: The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<OERIAS> Sorry.
<ujjain> are IT salaries rising or stable for the last years?
<ujjain> I see a lot of messages that say they need IT personel, but so far salaries don't seem to be going up that much.
<awilkins> In the States or elsewhere?
<awilkins> In the States the impression I get is that they make a lot of noise about lacking IT personnel to get their H1B visa count up
<ujjain> in the UK, Western Europe
<awilkins> I just got rehired for +33%
<ujjain> I want to work in the US, but H1B visa is tricky.
<ujjain> ah, that's funny.
<foobarry> my salary is only just approaching the level i had in 1999
<awilkins> But I was working in a gov.uk post so I was arguably underpaid for my experience and skillset
<ujjain> ah really? 50k pound salaries were common in 1999-2000?
<foobarry> who said 50k?
<OERIAS> Well IT jobs are very common in the US of A
<awilkins> in '99 I was a junior doc earning Â£21k
<awilkins> And working 80 hour weeks for it too
<OERIAS> Some with incomes of $90,000
<awilkins> Went from that to a junior dev earning Â£12k
<foobarry> but yes, Â£40-50k salaries in banking sector were the norm
<foobarry> in the late 1990s
<awilkins> I had a "Senior Tech Arch" for the financial sector post drop in my inbox this morning for Â£70k +
<OERIAS> The problem lies with where to find jobs. Most of the .com companies in 'murika are in the Silicon valley.
<foobarry> sounds about right
<awilkins> Combination of problems... from my side, we found it really, really hard to hire people with the right XP
<ujjain> It seems there is a big difference in work pressure between jobs too, I see a lot of people here like doing nothing all day.
<awilkins> But then we pay crapulous wages because we are a gov.uk org
<foobarry> i know someone who went on that y cominator thing in silicon alley
<awilkins> ujjain, There's always a difference in work pressure even within the walls of one place
<foobarry> haven't seen her since
<awilkins> ujjain, Some people are very good at slacking, the larger and older the org gets, the more of them you'll have around
<awilkins> ujjain, I probably look like I'm slacking a lot of the time, but I make up for it by being very good at what I do when things need doing fast
<foobarry> ujjain: where is "here"
<ujjain> Well, in my team there is not much work, it's sometimes a bit frustrating.
<ujjain> in London.
<awilkins> Yeah, there is that as well
<awilkins> Especially for technical teams who only work on things decided on by other people
<ujjain> Yeah, not sure what to do, so much free time.
<awilkins> ujjain, Improve yourself, definitely. Work on things of some benefit to your employer, or even personal projects.
<awilkins> If you improve yourself you are of more value to the company (and yourself).
<ujjain> yeah, I think so, I enjoyed reading this story https://sites.google.com/site/forgottenemployee/.
<awilkins> So if they can't fill your working day it's an honest use of your time.
<ujjain> Yeah, I guess that's true. But after a while, gets a bit boring too, but I try to play my free time in advance yeah.
<ujjain> There is a lot of interesting upcoming Linux-stuff to learn yeah, sometimes gets a bit boring though.
<awilkins> Hence the reason Google allows 20% time
<awilkins> They know that engineers get slack, get bored
<foobarry> they don't do that anymore
<awilkins> They don't? Silly boys.
<ujjain> yeah, I guess that work be a nice balance, 80% IT, 20% free
<ujjain> in my case I feel its the other way around lol
<foobarry> the 20% thing was early google days
<ujjain> yeah, they canceled that at google
<popey> http://androidphonenamegenerator.com/
<OERIAS> Samsung Amaze Slide Plus
<foobarry> ujjain: contractor or permie?
<foobarry> spare time at work is time to improve your skills and document stuff
<foobarry> and make IT systems more efficient
<foobarry> g+ whats hot is terrible
<foobarry> gives me barely SFW stuff
<DJones> Heh, Diaspora gets some media attention http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28882042?ocid=socialflow_twitter
<DJones> And not good publicity
<Myrtti> ah yes, the social network nobody remember unless it's mentioned somewhere by someone else, first
<Myrtti> maybe they'll get some more users now
<Myrtti> or the old users remember they have accounts
<DJones> I'm surprised I managed to remember my username & password to log in just to see if it still worked
<foobarry> if a tree fell over on diaspora, would anyone hear it?
<Laney> fffffssssssssscccckkkkkkkkkkkkk
<Laney> "my this is taking a long time to boot"
<popey> awww, shame knightwise isn't around to see the best ALS Ice bucket challenge video so far (IMO) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4qADFNsDxE
<popey> Expecting it to be Jimmy Kimmell
<awilkins> Is making grep coredump worth a bug report?
<foobarry> yep
<foobarry> if its grep's fault
<directhex> disharmonic: poor grep
<foobarry> this time of year i am playing out of office roulette. trying to find someone actually availabel to send me a doc
<foobarry> "i am away, please ask $OTHER"
<foobarry> $OTHER is away too...$OTHER2..
<awilkins> foobarry, As far as I'm concerned, grep should not coredump for any inputs
<awilkins> Coming back and saying "I couldn't cope with that input because ..." is fine
<awilkins> I am doing something a mite odd in that I'm using the PCRE support and using look-arounds
<awilkins> But I guess because PCRE support is "highly experimental" bug reports are useful
<diddledan> quiet in here tonight
<Azelphur> I'm having fun negotiating the terms of my employment
<Azelphur> being employed by as a developer is difficult when you work on FOSS stuff too
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> yeah
<Azelphur> Contract: All your code are belong to us
<diddledan> I hate that
<Azelphur> yea
<diddledan> it's one reason why I actually like being freelance atm
<Azelphur> diddledan: they have a clause in there for them releasing the rights to a project
<diddledan> >.<
<Azelphur> so I've just asked that they write me a waiver saying "The employee has advised that he does out of hours contract work for other
<Azelphur> organisations in non competing areas and the employer acknowledges this disclosure"
<Azelphur> hopefully that'll be acceptable, it was recommended by a friend :)
<diddledan> I gues you could do the inverse of a Contributor Licence Assignment for each of your projects get your employer to sign a waiver for that copyright
<diddledan> but that's a pain
<diddledan> it's easier if they can give carte-blance
<diddledan> blanche*
<Azelphur> yea
<diddledan> potentially risquÃ©, but http://cdn.diply.com/img/d00d7930-0307-475f-8541-167557a3401f.jpg
<diddledan> :-p
<Azelphur> haha
<diddledan> I think it's time to sleep
<Azelphur> nn
<diddledan> nn
<mapps> well
<mapps> watching expendables 3 has made me tired
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> must be all the suspension of disbelief
<daftykins> ;)
<mapps> heh
<mapps> its just action but for actions sake
<mapps> 5 days and il be in RIGA :D checked in for flight today and bought return flight
<mapps> kinda sucks 201 GBP 250 euros but when ryan air convert from euros to gbp came to 427 for 2 tickets
<mapps> dont care anyway
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> :O
<mapps> then 4 weeks and move to Spain/Gib - not sure where appt is yet
<mapps> gonna buy a new laptop..i wont have a tv  and i watch a LOT of films/tv series..and my laptops only 15inch
<mapps> figure i should get a 17inch
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> current one got HDMI or VGA out? just get a screen
<daftykins> :P
<mapps> but then what about when i move back to uk?
<daftykins> i assume you mean for logistics?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> how can i see what module a usb wifi adapter is using
<daftykins> lspci -nnk
<daftykins> or "lsmod | grep 80211" sometimes
<mapps> ah
<mapps> thanks
<mapps> mac80211              329373  3 rt2x00lib,rt2x00usb,rt2800lib
<mapps> cfg80211              211002  2 mac80211,rt2x00lib
<mapps> rfkill                 19567  2 cfg80211
<mapps> pi@raspberrypi /etc/modprobe.d $
<mapps> mac80211,r
<mapps> Bus 001 Device 004: ID 148f:5370 Ralink Technology, Corp. RT5370 Wireless Adapter
<mapps> O_o
<mapps> i wanna disable power management on it
<daftykins> are you sure that's what's going wrong with that little toy? ;)
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i think
<daftykins> and not just constrained USB issues
<mapps> http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/6957/how-to-disable-raspberry-pi-power-management
<mapps> ah
<mapps> http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46569&p=386668
<mapps> thats even mentions the usb wifi im using!
<daftykins> sorry mate i don't have any time to look at stuff tonight
<daftykins> too much rushing to book flights to nip up to England tomorrow
<mapps> ah
<mapps> :)
<mapps> last min flights?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-22
<daftykins> pretty much!
<daftykins> wasn't sure i could get a house + cat sitter until today as i didn't ask my friends quick enough
<Myrtti> moin
<knightwise> mornin
<knightwise> hmmM. mac sold
<knightwise> :) at least thats what I hope :)
<knightwise> still got a good deal on the machine even if its allmost 3 years old
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> had a choice of looking after 1yr old or 4yr old today
<foobarry> i think the 4yr old would have been easier
<zmoylan-pi> you can break out the nerf with the 4yo
<foobarry> and not have to spend all day chasing them
<zmoylan-pi> you can just switch to megadarts and wing them :-p
<foobarry> does flightradar24 only feature large passenger 737 style planes?
<foobarry> what about light aircraft
<popey> Morning slackers.
<foobarry> oh, i think its only commercial /cargo/passenger aircraft
<foobarry> wondered if there was a site for finding what interesting plane flew over your house
<zmoylan-pi> you want advance notice next time the antonov 225 is about? :-)
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if you could a.i. recognise aircraft from a webcam covering an airport
<foobarry> saw something resembling a vampire the other day, wondered what it was
<zmoylan-pi> not many aircraft look like a vampire
<zmoylan-pi> and if it had a jet engine almost none i think
<zmoylan-pi> list of twin boom aircraft is quite small, you might spot it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin-boom
<foobarry> p38 lightnings look similar too
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Hug Your Boss Day! :-D
 * knightwise would rather not hug his boss
<foobarry> i think i would have known if it was a vampire as it probably would have made an awesome sound
<zmoylan-pi> but a p38 is a prop driven plane, would sound instantly different on spotting one
<foobarry> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_Skymaster#mediaviewer/File:Cessna_Skymaster_O-2_5.jpg
<foobarry> i wonder...
<Myrtti> well, that's atleast one part of the Christmas presents sorted
<Myrtti> even if Animi Causa website was annoying as hell
<knightwise> anyone here using his/her display in portrait mode  ?
<knightwise> (external monitor i mean)
<foobarry> occasionally knightwise
<foobarry> when reading long docs
<knightwise> i've been playing with a portrait mode external monitor for a couple of days .. and since i'll be getting my new laptop tomorrow (it supports dual external screens) i thought about putting my 2 24 inchers in portrait mode
<knightwise> landscape mode is just too wide to comprehend if you have 2 24 inch monitors
<zmoylan-pi> flip one monitor to portrait for reading the long stuff?
<zmoylan-pi> unless that triggers ocd of course :-)
<knightwise> erm .. yeah
<knightwise> I have simmetrical OCD
<awilkins> Does it have an awesome graphics card that will support 3 x 3D renders?
<awilkins> Play Formula 1 games
 * zmoylan-pi leaves this here for knightwise :-) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Btx_cIvCIAA39l4.jpg:large
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<hazrpg> brobostigon: morning
<brobostigon> morning hazrpg and bashrc, long time no see hazrpg.
<bashrc> been busy
<bashrc> also server up and down
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: E vil
<zmoylan-pi> but only the finest evil :-)
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: indeed
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: I have found a new friend for you http://www.angelfire.com/apes/bonzi_buddy/
<knightwise> you can even download the setup file ;)
 * zmoylan-pi is really more a cat person... :-)
<knightwise> like this , http://mcphee.com/shop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1200x1200/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/c/r/crazy_cat_lady_action_figure_1.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> i only want 1 action figure, http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/2001-A-Space-Odyssey-Monolith-Action-Figure.jpg
<knightwise> OMG .. its full of starr... *
<zmoylan-pi> says so on the packet
<Myrtti> I ordered 5 of these, four as a Christmas present http://www.animicausa.com/shop/Gifts-for-Him/Leatherdos-Mini-tools-clip/tpflypage.tpl.html
<zmoylan-pi> overkill, this would be better :-) http://todaymade.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/macgyver-multitool.jpg
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Google-Chromecast-Streaming-Media-Player/dp/B00I4WQ618/
<popey> chromecast down to 18 quid
<knightwise> just ordered my second one yesterday
<knightwise> chromecast + plex = Dreamy !
<awilkins> Is there a UK source for that hair clip? Seems the ideal present for a geeky daughter..
<awilkins> (with apologies for my sexual stereotyping, I just don't have a son to give one to)
<awilkins> Although I suppose they have stuck a big Union Flag on the page emphasising their free shipping
<foobarry> Â£18 ? ugh
<foobarry> paid 30Â£ each onlt last month
<knightwise> payed 30 yesterday
<foobarry> oof
<foobarry> maybe new version coming then
<kvarley-work> Trying to "Connect To Server" via the Ubuntu filemanager but I'm trying to FTP to a server which has an "@" symbol in the username so the following connection string doesn't work. Is there a way around it? ftp://username@domain.com@domain.com/somefolder
<directhex> use a colon?
<directhex> hm, no
<directhex> tricksy
<directhex> backslash escape?
<kvarley-work> Doesn't seem to work
<kvarley-work> It's a tricky one isn't it
<kvarley-work> The hosting provider doesn't allow the username to not have the domain name in it
<kvarley-work> So they force the @ symbol
<zmoylan-pi> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/814322/how-to-use-linux-command-line-ftp-with-a-sign-in-my-username
<shauno> good lord, most of those answers are terrible
<zmoylan-pi> true but you never know which weird one might work
<Myrtti> awilkins: I did search for one myself and found none
<Myrtti> I'm childishly happy over having Yorkshire Tea phone case background. wheeeeeeeeee
<awilkins> Myrtti, Those guys do have free shipping, even internationally though
<Myrtti> awilkins: yeah.
<zmoylan-pi> it's made of compressed tea for survival situations? :-)
<awilkins> Myrtti, But... out of stock
<Myrtti> awilkins: but if for Christmas present...
<Myrtti> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<Myrtti> I can wait
<awilkins> Myrtti, Indeed
<awilkins> Myrtti, I already got one of these for the gf, who has an enduring fondness for butter : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1070983896/the-stupendous-splendiferous-butterup
<awilkins> (but not arrived yet, 'natch)
<awilkins> Chromecast price : yay. ish. I have no devices with HDMI ports that are not monitors connected to my main computer.
<Myrtti> yeah we might participate into that too
<awilkins> re: Chromecast, my main TV source is now Netflix via Wii, on my SD CRT
<awilkins> Can't quite bring myself to replace that old TV...
<zmoylan-pi> i can see the movie, an acronym too far :-)
<zmoylan-pi> if it ain't broken
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: no they sent a card at the end of July with a sticker to celebrate Yorkshire day, and I repurposed the card
<Myrtti> https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/14803415938/
<zmoylan-pi> cause the chinese used to compress tea into bricks for money so it might be doable as a phone case with a little effort
<zmoylan-pi> nice job on trimming the sticker to the case, professionally done
<Myrtti> it's not a sticker :-P that's the card
<zmoylan-pi> sorry, card
<Myrtti> and Ringke Fusion cases come with a form to help with the cutting
<zmoylan-pi> i like when companies think of details like that
<diddledan> morning
<popey> haha, thats neat Myrtti
<popey> the start of that butterup video annoys me intensely, who spreads bread in their hands!?
<Myrtti> depends on the bread
<Myrtti> if it's hard like Finnish rye often is, then there's no hope in trying to get the butter on it if it's on a slippery plate
<bigcalm> Breadboard, always
<Myrtti> British white is so moist and spongy it sticks to a vertical cupboard door on its own, if you throw it hard enough, so that you have to do on a plate or something
<foobarry> racist
<bigcalm> Not the electronic breadboard though
<popey> i use a wooden breadboard
<zmoylan-pi> if you're camping you butter your bread that way iirc
<popey> I â¥ my breadboad
<popey> your butter wouldn't be likely to be in a fridge if you were camping would it?
<popey> also, the guy in the video clearly isnt camping
<zmoylan-pi> in ireland outdoors is the fridge :-)
<bigcalm> I think my wooden breadboard was sold as a chopping board for meat - there's a channel for juices to pool in
<foobarry> don't seem to be able to post youtube comment
<foobarry> just says posting...
<zmoylan-pi> and i seemed to remember reading the butterknife works via body heat. how long do you have to hold it for that to work?
<popey> foobarry: i had that, was a cookie problem
<foobarry> ta, will try in firefox instead
<popey> i just removed all *.google.com and *.youtube.com cookies and re-signed in, it worked
<foobarry> ugh ff too
<foobarry> wlil remove cookies
<ali1234> i also had that problem
<foobarry> today?
<ali1234> no ages ago
<ali1234> also, who keeps butter in the fridge? that's just wrong
<zmoylan-pi> no you keep butter in the fridge but have a small part of it in butter dish at room temp for immediate use
<zmoylan-pi> these philistines don't know how to use butter :-)
<ali1234> yeah
<foobarry> hmmm no worky
<zmoylan-pi> next week, the proper storage and maintenace of bread :-)
<ali1234> my parents keep butter in the fridge and bread in the freezer. it's so annoying
<foobarry> butter is rare nowadays
<zmoylan-pi> bread in the freezer is only for cheap bread.  it affects the taste
<ali1234> it doesn't just affect the taste, it also makes it go soggy and chewy
<zmoylan-pi> most people now use spreads in leiu of butter. tis a shame really
<zmoylan-pi> butter is much more tasty
<ali1234> and when you defrost it it is guaranteed to go moldy in less than 1 day
<awilkins> And healthier than hydrogenated vegetable oils
<zmoylan-pi> instead of bread for soups i use cream crackers crumbled up, lovely
<awilkins> I have "convenience" butter, the kind mixed with a little veggie oil to make it softer
<zmoylan-pi> and fresh for months
<foobarry> tried clearing cookes and multiple browsers..something else is broke  i think
<ali1234> and spreads: people think it is healthier but it isn't if you use 10x as much because it has literally no flavour
<awilkins> Most of them are 80% fat anyway
<awilkins> Just like butter
<foobarry> fat is ok
<awilkins> Yeah, sugar is the enemy
<foobarry> i don't like butter/spread on bread
<foobarry> unless i am about to dip it in soup
<awilkins> I'm open to the idea of using olive oil instead
<foobarry> olive oil+balsmamic vinegar with ciabatta is yum
<Myrtti> cottage cheese, onion and carrots blended into a spread
<awilkins> Daughter loves good bread with olive oil and balsamic
<Myrtti> if you're into that kind of thing
<foobarry> almost sounds like coleslaw Myrtti
<Myrtti> or was it onion and sweet pepper
<Myrtti> I can't remember
<zmoylan-pi> irish soda bread with butter and glass of cold milk or tea....
<zmoylan-pi> just typing that and members of my family are drooling as they remember my mothers soda bread :-)
<foobarry> baby is sleeping, think i will have a 30 min snooze too
<zmoylan-pi> baby will wake up 2m after foobarry drifts off
<foobarry> nah
<foobarry> she is predictable
<foobarry> unless doggy barks
 * zmoylan-pi places bet
<diddledan> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-festivals/11046537/Tesco-store-swaps-vegetables-for-booze-ahead-of-Reading-Festival.html
<diddledan> \o/
<BigRedS> Surely there's enough volume sold now to justify having all these in plastic bottles?
<diddledan> yeah, but that means they can't charge as much
<diddledan> plastic = cheap
<BigRedS> But it's also easier to get into the festival, I'd charge a premium for that
<diddledan> glass = cheap to manufacture but expensive to consumers
<diddledan> expensive to consumers = pr0f1t
<BigRedS> yeah, it just seems tht plastic bottles are something the festival goers would seek out
<BigRedS> for the convenience rather than necessarily the price
<diddledan> I would expect the festival organisers would prefer plastic, too, as would the security guys
<BigRedS> yeah, I know they used to confiscate glass back in the day when I went, I assume it's the same now
<BigRedS> actually, it might be that all spirits need to be smuggled, so it's all getting transferred to old coke bottles on the pavement outside the shop anyway
<diddledan> eep
<BigRedS> Should just have a tap and sell it by the litre
<diddledan> would that make it easier or harder to steal / maintain stock control
<zmoylan-pi> it's be the alcos drinking from the tap that would be an issue
<BigRedS> a prepay tap would be hard to steal from, same model as unattended petrol stations
<diddledan> chug chug chug
<diddledan> ^^^^^ what does that actually mean?
<zmoylan-pi> a wino finding 50p on pavement and topping up with no bottle
<shauno> the tap would probably need to be in the store anyway, else they can't control minors, which is hot water rather quickly
<BigRedS> oh yeah, I forgot about that
<awilkins> Tap for which you buy bottles that have a volume code in their neck or something
<BigRedS> especially given that >50% of the people at Reading are <18
<awilkins> Snap in the bottle, machine fills it and applies a new sealed cap
<BigRedS> no, you want to sell it to minors, you just want to claim it was unknowingly
<awilkins> Cap has an RFID tag with the product it was filled with in it
<awilkins> Till scans cap, shopper pays for content
<BigRedS> seems more reliable to get the guy to pay before filling - maybe sell rfid-containing bottles?
<awilkins> Maybe an RFID identifying it's volume
<awilkins> But don't need it for product code if you're paying for a fillup
<awilkins> RFID says volume, chemical compatibility, etc
<awilkins> I can imagine they don't want to do it really
<awilkins> How can you sell poncy mineral water when you reinforce that you're just filling the bottle from a tap...
<BigRedS> this is for selling spirits isn't it?
<diddledan> you don't need rfid at all - just a barcode will do it - which means you don't need to retool your checkouts
<diddledan> think about the method they use at the deli counter or the in-store bakery counter
<ali1234> this idea won't work
<ali1234> i can easily remove the top and substitute my own
<diddledan> ali1234: that's why you don't put it on the top
<zmoylan-pi> or program a phone with rfid to pretend to be something else
<ali1234> 2 litres of vodka with the top from 2 litres of water
<ali1234> if i have write access to someone else's calendar (like a shared calendar) and i create an event and set an email reminder, who gets the email?
<ali1234> er... on google calendars
<diddledan> whoever you set as invites?
<ali1234> i didn't set any
<diddledan> then nobody
<diddledan> oh reminder
<ali1234> well, that's not true if i make events on my own calendar
<diddledan> ignore me
<diddledan> I would expect that you would get it because you created it but I can't be certain
<ali1234> i would like both myself and the calendar owner account to get it
<ali1234> i guess i'll just make a test event
<ali1234> ah, it is configurable
<knightwise> hey ali1234
<ali1234> hi
<ali1234> okay the answer is that everyone has an independentset of reminders
<ali1234> so if you set a reminder - anywhere - only you get it
<ali1234> which is reasonable i guess
<foobarry> decided to get rid of the desktop pc at home
<foobarry> just taking up space
<foobarry> rsync -av /home/ /usbdisk/
<popey> gonna plug one of the chromecasts into my desktop monitor so I can watch films without the noise of the desktop pc on
<zmoylan-pi> replace it with rasp pi :-)
<foobarry> i realised i don't know enough youtube channels for my interests
<popey> i keep getting a backlog of YT things to watch
<zmoylan-pi> i visit yt once a day, maybe
<ali1234> i only watch youtube now
<ali1234> not TV
<ali1234> i only found out the new series of doctor who starts tomorrow when i saw a youtube ad for it this morning
<popey> http://coljones.itch.io/slightlymagic looks fun
<popey> love that speccy style
<foobarry> baby wants to drag the zimmerframe thing and the scooter along, and having a strop :S
<foobarry> you can't sit and stand
<zmoylan-pi> did you not see the new revolutionary invisible chair?
<popey> i was just looking at that
<popey> aside from them all having sun glasses on, and the woman operating machinery without tying her hair up... the one thing that got me was the very last sentence in the video
<popey> They used the word "Chairolution"
<zmoylan-pi> makes you want to punch a marketeer, doesn't it?
<shauno> I do find it funny that people that sit down for a living are going nuts over standing desks etc.  and people who stand for a living are looking for ways to sit down.  and they both cite ergonomics, health, posture, etc
<popey> that odd chair is half way
<popey> not sitting, not standing
<popey> so winner for everyone
<diddledan> shauno: linus apparently prefers walking
<zmoylan-pi> then you need a nightwatchmans chair.  one legged chair meant for night watchmen in victorian times iirc
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: that's so that when the watchman falls asleep he falls off the chair and furtively looks around to be sure the burglers can't see what he just did
<zmoylan-pi> it is hard to sleep on one, but not impossible
<diddledan> you see, if the burglers can't see the watchman then all is fine in the world and nobody gets upset about a robbery in progress
<diddledan> kinda like the Traal
<foobarry> invisible chair is a real thing?
<zmoylan-pi> they're testing it in europe at a few companies seemingly
<diddledan> sorry, traal is where it's from - I mean the "bugblatter beast of traal"
<zmoylan-pi> sorry for daily mail link.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2730442/Fancy-sit-The-invisible-chairless-chair-lets-relax-anywhere.html
<diddledan> which, it is said, is such a mind-boggingly stupid animal, it assumes that if you can't see it, it can't see you
<zmoylan-pi> that's why you always have a towel
<diddledan> bingo
<foobarry> daily mail seem to be the only paper who report on certain interesting stories
<diddledan> foobarry: that's shocking
<zmoylan-pi> some good odd tech stories come from there but you have to sort the wheat from the chaff
<diddledan> foobarry: the daily mail as a source for news?!
<zmoylan-pi> a sign of the end times
<foobarry> also http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2699935/Artist-work-adorned-Airfix-model-aeroplane-boxes-puts-original-sketches-sale.html
<foobarry> i was reading this today. no other paper covered it
<foobarry> there's a way to get the print version that doesn't have the sidebar of shame, but i forgot how
<foobarry> roy cross is one of my favourite artists
<zmoylan-pi> it's a uniquelly british item
<zmoylan-pi> i think i read that though somewhere else a while back...
<foobarry> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/version22design/geco-hub-stop-losing-in-style
<Myrtti> oo, looks nifty
<popey> gosh that does look neat
<foobarry> my employer should buy me one if they want a tidy desk
<zmoylan-pi> a bugger to clean? and not compatible with cats
<diddledan> lol @ kitty claw getting stuck
<zmoylan-pi> ever see what happens a millisecond after a cat thinks it's trapped? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> but thinking of someone sticking a phone with power cable plugged into low power socket trailing out of it
<zmoylan-pi> but it looks like a towel rack we had in 70s which was a series of rubber tubes with an x in the top which you pushed stuff into
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: love those towel thingies
<diddledan> they remind me of being young
<arsen> i used ot get my fingers trapped in those when i was a kid
<zmoylan-pi> hah, they still make them http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0081TB4R0?*Version*=1&*entries*=0
<zmoylan-pi> they lost their grip after a while
<zmoylan-pi> you wouldn't want smartphone to slip out
<foobarry> they remind me of goatse
<foobarry> :$
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like the blood content in your alcohol stream is too high
<arsen> seem to remember them being used for teatowels
<arsen> even says it in the title. /me goes back to the darkness
<foobarry> looking for a respirator, does anyone use one for painting?
<bigcalm> Chrome Cast for Â£18 on pcworld.co.uk? Time to by 2
<bigcalm> Oh, before I buy, are they any good?
<bigcalm> Oh Â£18 on Amazon as well
<zmoylan-pi> don't work yet in firefox, do they?
<Myrtti> I've basically bought four of them
<shauno> a respirator sounds like overkill?  vapour mask for spray-painting, dust mask for everything else
<foobarry> yeah, a mask
<foobarry> looking at 3M 6000 series and 4251
<foobarry> 4251 cannot replace filters, 6000 is same price but filter are not included
<popey> bigcalm: and tesco apparently
<bigcalm> Are they worth buying though?
<popey> i bought two
<popey> so now i have 3
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> I haven't read up on them. Can you install apps like Spotify?
<bigcalm> Or is it just a streaming device?
<zmoylan-pi> at least with rasp pis you can do a lot of other neat stuff
<diddledan> bigcalm: you control it from your phone - it has no control inbuilt
<diddledan> or tablet*
<diddledan> so they will only work with tablet/phone apps that have the functionality
<diddledan> e.g. netflix
<bigcalm> Ah, I see
<bigcalm> Youtube and iplayer I hope
<diddledan> you open an app on your phone/tablet, and prod the "cast" button at which point it'll link up with your cc and stream from either internet->phone->cc or internet->cc(direct)
<bigcalm> Funky
<diddledan> I believe some apps support going direct others need the phone/tablet to proxy but either way they require a compatible phone/tablet to control them with
<diddledan> I _think_ some desktop things work with it too (chrome, obv, but others like netflix in random browser)
<zmoylan-pi> just seems a little not-so-big-brother to me
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: is not-so-big better or worse in your opinion than big?
<zmoylan-pi> equally bad as big brother can watch that info. seems silly but irks me
<diddledan> not-so-big suggests to me that they aren't watching so intently
<Myrtti> this tiny rant has nothing to do right now with anyone present or active in this channel, but oh dear $deity I hate away nicknames. That is all, thanks, baaaiii
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I agree. They aren't needed. Every IRC client I've used tells me if a user is away or not. If not, I can find their idle time. Grr indeed!
 * zmoylan-pi is guilty of using |away nick, sorry
<popey> i use it on the internal work irc only when I go on holiday â»
<zmoylan-pi> but there are some wacky old irc clients still in use
<switchtehbeat> where's the cheapest place in the UK to buy 8gb of RAM?
<switchtehbeat> amazon?
<switchtehbeat> ebay?
<switchtehbeat> ??
<switchtehbeat> :D
<zmoylan-pi> out of shady bobs van in back alley behind abbatoir, arrive at 0300 alone, bring cash :-p
<davmor2> back of an abattoir hey that sounds like a plan
<switchtehbeat> lmao
<davmor2> switchtehbeat: try looking on those sites it'll tell you pretty soon which is cheaper ;)
<switchtehbeat> lol
<switchtehbeat> :P
<zmoylan-pi> you'd be amazed how many stories start with an ad on craigslist about meeting up in alley behind bars there are
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: you should stop writing those you know
<zmoylan-pi> shhh, i'm arranging to meetup to 'buy' a rolex :-p
<diddledan> joy: https://mig5.net/content/awesome-screenshot-and-niki-bot
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I tried to arrange to meetup to 'buy' some adult entertainment. but she was a he.
<diddledan> again it involved a dingy alley, unconsciousness, police charges, and the shame of admitting what happened to the family
<diddledan> bah @ forgetting the oxford comma
<diddledan> what happened, to the family***
<diddledan> is it hometime yet?
<foobarry> diddledan: true story?
<diddledan> maybe ;-)
<diddledan> it's annoying that itunes on os x (and probably windas, but I don't use it there) doesn't let me store "music" in the music folder and "ios apps" somewhere more appropriate than the music folder and "videos" in the "videos" folder
<diddledan> instead it just lumps everything in the music folder
<zmoylan-pi> makes you wonder if a lot of such crimes are unreported as they would all start with admission of been a complete muppet to turn up at location in first place
<shauno> diddledan, I just don't sync my phone to itunes :)
<diddledan> shauno: how's that work out for you?
<shauno> fine?
<diddledan> my moosic is done via match now I guess so the apps I suppose I could delete and not sync
<zmoylan-pi> i just drag and drop music to micro-sd card for phone
<mapps> where would wifi issues be logged to?
<mapps> my pi wifi seems to die when i connect to the vpn
<zmoylan-pi> raspian?
<mapps> yes sir
<mapps> and pptpd
<diddledan> mapps: is it the wifi disconnecting or is it that the route is saying push everything through the tunnel oh wait now I'm routing the tunnel through the tunnel
<zmoylan-pi> seems for some there is a wifi drop problem http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/8267/wifi-connection-lost-after-about-12-hours
<diddledan> hint: routing tunnel through itself won't work
<mapps> diddledan,  i mean connecting to a vpn running on the pi from anither device
<mapps> it seems to kill the wifi
<diddledan> I'm not sure I can diagnose without observing - if the wireless really is dying then it might be talked about in dmesg or /var/log/syslog or /var/log/messages (whichever of those two happen to be present)
<mapps> ok
<mapps> lets see
<mapps> its up atm
<mapps> http://paste.debian.net/116964/
<mapps> http://paste.debian.net/116965/
<mapps> now when i connect it will die i think..il try connecting
<mapps> and the wireless is dead now :Z
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> whole thing died had to reboot
<ali1234> wordpress spammers trying a new trick. instead of generic "wow i like your website" comments, they're complaining about spelling mistakes.
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> i tried reading some articles on the independent.co.uk news site today and they were chock full of spam
<foobarry> nobody clearing them or moderating, really poor
<ali1234> newspaper website comments are the worst
<ali1234> people complain about how biased comments are on sites like reddit and slashdot
<ali1234> but any news website is far worse
<foobarry> i imagine slashdot as one single aspie guy i know writing all the comments. helps me to put /. comments in perspective
<ali1234> slashdot is full of pseudo-libertarians too now
<foobarry> why does packing for 1-day away take as long as 1 week away
<ali1234> because you take less you have to be more discriminating
<diddledan> what's an aspie guy?
<foobarry> someone on the autistic spectrum
<foobarry> i seem to know rather a lot
<foobarry> but we work in IT
<foobarry> i think i'm packing for all seasons
<mapps> hm
<mapps> cnt figure out this pi wifi disconnect
<shauno> is the wifi powered from the pi?  are you just hitting a power limit when you throw something computationally expensive at it?
<ali1234> isn't the pi notorious for these problems?
<mapps> not sure
<mapps> but everytime i try to connect to the vpn on it
<mapps> wifi dies
<mapps> :D
<ali1234> (it is)
<directhex> the usb stack is garbage on the pi. don't know about wifi
<ali1234> wifi is plugged into USB so.........
<directhex> i discovered you can make a pi unresponsive and useless by plugging a gaming mouse into it
<directhex> or gaming keyboard
<ali1234> wow. any idea why?
<ali1234> or did you just throw it aside in disgust? :)
<directhex> yeah. gaming peripherals do 1000Hz USB signalling by default, which the pi totally chokes on. 125Hz is the USB standard default.
<ali1234> ah, i see
<directhex> the pi has no IO capabilities - they ripped out the IO coprocessor from the SOC to add the ARMv6 coprocessor. so all IO (e.g. interrupt handling) is done in software by the ARM
<mapps> hm
<diddledan> random
<diddledan> email: "Hi Daniel Llewellyn ! I'm a dev on Ubuntu Touch for Mototola Moto G [XDA link]. One of my followers suggest me to add me build to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices#Work_in_progress and he said me that I need to contact you."
<diddledan> I wonder why I was suggested?
<shauno> bottom of the page; Touch/Devices (last edited 2014-07-04 09:52:47 by diddledan)
<ali1234> that will be it then
<diddledan> heh
<diddledan> typical
<diddledan> my own fault for being helpful :-p
<ali1234> maybe someone told him to email daniel holbach, and he just assumed diddledan was the same person?
<shauno> but then used his full name in the email
<ali1234> oh yeah. that won't be it then
<shauno> although they don't sound like a native-speaker, so they might not be aware that that collection of L's is a name
<ali1234> "Hi Daniel Llewellyn" sounds like something someone chinese would write
<shauno> heh, I noticed "suggest me" and "said me"
<diddledan> the japanese have fun getting L confused with R when trying to pronounce llewellyn
<ali1234> "Hi" = informal, then using the full name. unusual for anyone european or american
<shauno> meh, I can only pronounce it because of that decorator dude that was all-over british TV 10-15 years ago
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> ol lawrence
<diddledan> of the double-barrel brigade
<directhex> funnily enough, i was re-watching The League of Gentlemen recently, and he cameos in it
<OERIAS> aur repository is down ;(
<diddledan> OERIAS: welcome to #ubuntu
<OERIAS> hey.
<diddledan> -uk
<diddledan> meh, I can't be ironic
<OERIAS> How's is everybody>
<diddledan> don't you hate when you can't take the micky without getting it wrong?
<diddledan> shauno: offtopic, but are you on yosemite yet?
<diddledan> shauno: I was wondering if anyone else is having problems with adobe flash plugins since upgrading
<diddledan> it seems to completely nuke my googley chrome on some sites such as cnet (yeah, I know!)
<diddledan> other example I've just hit is forum.xda-developers.com
<shauno> I haven't noticed anything flash-related
<shauno> on the last release safari kept on forgetting what tabs were, which was awkward
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> oops
<shauno> (it was behaving like tabs were working as normal, except there was no tab bar and I couldn't switch between them)
<diddledan> if you're using safari then maybe it's just a googley chrome issue
 * diddledan googleys shauno 
<diddledan> :-p
<shauno> heh, I don't use chrome much
<diddledan> I find chrome the easiest to use for development
<diddledan> so I tend to stick to it for everything else too
<shauno> it's ugly, it's slow, and it doesn't play well with others.  and I don't like google.
 * hamitron just hates the internet
<diddledan> hamitron: in soviet russia internet hates the you
<hamitron> yay ;/
<diddledan> :-p
<hamitron> all my troubles are user caused
<hamitron> (too many open tabs)
<diddledan> hamitron: the internet isn't _that_ bad. I mean apart from craigslist's adult section
<hamitron> so shouldn't complain
<diddledan> and 4chan
<diddledan> and shauno
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> chrome is only ugly because of some of that adult section....
<diddledan> but on the plus side, midgets and kitties
<hamitron> well, firefox taking 9-10GB ram is just rude
<diddledan> yeouch
<diddledan> that's more rams than I own
<hamitron> and no amount of cute kitties will change my mind on that
<hamitron> I upgraded, thinking.... "bring it on"
<diddledan> hah!
<diddledan> I need moar
<hamitron> yeh
<diddledan> I might have to upgrade my work laptop and start using that
<hamitron> I have tried to tackle the problem now though
<diddledan> this macbook pro retina can't be upgraded :-(
<hamitron> and using an addon that lets you unload tabs, without closing them
<shauno> just close them.  free yourself from the kleptomania
<hamitron> tried that option once since I got it, and a couple of clicks saved 7GB RAM
<hamitron> I am working on it :)
<shauno> I currently have 3 tabs open.  and I'll close them all before bed.
<hamitron> I got 200-300
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> actually, maybe 300+ now
<shauno> well, on the plus side, you're making me feel normal :)
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> most of them are things I am considering buying
<hamitron> downloads to download
<hamitron> or guides to something I want to read
<diddledan> 300?!
<diddledan> holy shotguns!
<hamitron> linux has multiple desktops for a reason? ;)
<hamitron> added with my 3 monitors
<hamitron> feels like information overload sometimes
<diddledan> so 30 per screen per workspace?
<hamitron> I got 27 desktops
<hamitron> not all used though
<hamitron> erm
<diddledan> how on earth do you keep track of all that?!
<hamitron> well, you know how you start with 4.... get in the habit of placing certain things at different locations
<hamitron> you kinda expand on that over the years
<hamitron> and I have my system
<hamitron> ;)
<diddledan> I tend to get lost
<hamitron> personal stuff on the left monitor
<hamitron> entertainment on the centre one
<diddledan> like handle and gertle get lost in the woods looking for sweet houses
<hamitron> tech on the right
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> I wouldn't advise anyone does what I do
<hamitron> working on reducing it :)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-23
<JohanSJA> 6
<diddledan> 82
<mapps> morning all
<shauno> debatable :/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> greetings mammals
<brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi
<SuperEngineer> whoop! jkust solved weekend tak no. 1 - how to gwt Epson XP412 working as a scanner :)
<SuperEngineer> simples... stick an SD card in it - instantly recognized [when commected via USB] - scan to that...
<SuperEngineer> ...then print directly from the file on the SD solved!
<SuperEngineer> who needs risky config changes when the brain switches to common sense mode?  ;)
<SuperEngineer> [and to spell that first line correctly seems just too much extra work for the brain!]
<SuperEngineer> whoop! just solved weekend task no. 1 - how to get Epson XP412 working as a scanner   ... again, simples when you apply the full brain - even to keyboarding :D
<penguin42> http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/1987249.htm      what an offer!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Oh that's a nice way of doing it
<popey> penguin42: I'll take two!
<SuperEngineer> :)
 * SuperEngineer thinksof sending Argos 75 no-pounds for their wonderful no-product... it'll save some poor sod being called in at the weekend if they think it's working ;)
 * SuperEngineer now contemplates weekend task no. 2 - see if I can get WinXp disk to boot from the USB external caddy
<SuperEngineer> [disk is from the old dual boot pc that this pooter replaced]
<SuperEngineer> ALL advice/warnings pre-attempt gratefully recieved
<SuperEngineer> [after the F1 live qualifying has finished, of course] ;)
 * SuperEngineer reboots pooter to have a quick try inbtween Q2 & Q3... fingers crossed
<MonsterKiller> Anyone able to help with using parted? I've got a new 4TB HDD and am trying to set it up with parted, but after creating the partition fdisk complains "Partition 1 does not start on physical sector boundary." (its shows start as 1). However, i used "mkpart primary 1049kB 4.00TB"
 * SuperEngineer ponders the meaning of "lif" 
<SuperEngineer> & thinks, well the 'trying old XP disk via USB caddy experiment failed
<SuperEngineer> ...It may well have failed but - having survived so long without any Win [ever since 14.04 ;) ] - who needs it!?
<SuperEngineer> ...but oh so many wins [no pun] whilst trying - and reasons Windows no longer needed...
<SuperEngineer> - Games... Dear Ester is a cow to run on Ubuntu... installed Mint on a miniture partition: problem solved
<SuperEngineer> - SD card reader [internal connected never worked on this new home built pooter, it does now! ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...I could continue but why bore you
<SuperEngineer> ...but sooo many wins along that long, dusty, fruitless road
<shauno> the civilization pre-sale isn't on linux/mac :(
<SuperEngineer> Translation - I guess I'm pretty darn satisfied with Ubuntu 14.04 -
<SuperEngineer> unity et al
 * SuperEngineer thanks all devs, testers, hackers, whackers, et al
<SuperEngineer> [but I still hate the Ubuntu.com homepage ;)
<SuperEngineer> Q/ why the download page show amounts you wish to contribute in Â£ - why is $ the only option?
 * SuperEngineer loves that smug feeling obtained when paying for Ubuntu [having had no time to even bug hunt pre-release]
<penguin42> it seems to have been a very busy week for job stuff; I've got 3 entirely separate things on linkedin (none of which I'm interested in)
<ali1234> Azelphur: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Streaming_using_twitch.tv <- some desktop streaming with ffmpeg. just change it to send to your phone instead of twitch
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: why not ask linkedin to implement a useable & anti work cr*p filter?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Well, it's probably the type of thing you'd expect to receive via linkedin, they were actually job ads for things around here in skills that I vaguely know
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Not that I'm looking
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: ;)
<SuperEngineer> #Caturday pic.twitter.com/nUjLzbumRC
<SuperEngineer> just for a little light relief
<SuperEngineer> & before you pervs complain - look at the top post - not the other stuff!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<penguin42> Hey BC
<brobostigon> new dr who, 19:50, :)
<penguin42> odd time for a timelord don't you think?
<shauno> isn't that basically the plot?
 * penguin42 might watch it, I don't normally watch the Dr, but I do like Peter Capaldi generally
<SuperEngineer> What a wonderful TV weekend: Dr. Who tonight, rand Prix tomorrow.  Who needs sushine on a bank holiday weekend when that's the line up!
<SuperEngineer> *Grand Prix
<penguin42> it's actually been fairly sunny up here, although I don't think it will last
<shauno> it's a bank holiday?!  bugger
<penguin42> shauno: Yes it's the late summer bank holiday; as normal too late for summer
<SuperEngineer> shauno:  -it's not technically a bank holiday until Monday
<SuperEngineer> ...if only someone would tell the banks ;)
<shauno> more disappointed because I'm waiting for mail
<SuperEngineer> in the meantime - practice going "dur-ummm dur-uummmm, dur-ummm dur-uummmm, dur-ummm dur-uummmm, dur-ummm dur-uummmm, wooo-oooooooooooo"
<shauno> speak of which, what on earth am I watching?
<SuperEngineer> ...and, at last, it is time - dur-ummm dur-uummmm,dur-ummm dur-uummmm,dur-ummm dur-uummmm,dur-ummm dur-uummmm etc.  âº
<Myrtti> well my bank holiday weekend started with chipping a tooth. Fortunately pharmacies have those temporary filling kits.
<SuperEngineer> hmmm.  who needs marijuana when you've got Dr. Who!
<zmoylan-1i> a dr. who fan with ms?
<circular_logic> circular_logic cormac32
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-24
 * SuperEngineer watches Kung Fu Panda - [well, one has to do something before it's Penguins of Madagascar time]
<SuperEngineer> ...but why do the keep classifying them as kids' programmes - that's just stooopid ;)
 * bigcalm shakes fist at SuperEngineer
 * SuperEngineer shakes big toe at bigcalm 
<SuperEngineer> enjoy the meal?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHl24Kjp5Vs ?
<bigcalm> Indeed so. Good eats in there
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: good one!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... reciept from a certain payment company "You sent a payment of $15.00 USD to Canonical Limited"...
<SuperEngineer> ..what /why is wrong that I daidn't/couldn't pay in Â£ ?
<zmoylan-pi> well since we all seem to be subject to american law no matter where we live...
 * SuperEngineer checks noscript settings
<popey> SuperEngineer: it only lists $
<popey> SuperEngineer: also, thank you.
<SuperEngineer> popey: thanks - saves me hunting for something I got wrong!  :)
<SuperEngineer> whoopee! only 2 more hours until start of vroom vroom coverage!
<SuperEngineer> & only 1 hour till the pre-coverage :)
<brobostigon> silverstone was more interesting, as you could almost hear them in the wind, from where i live.
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: "in the wind"? - sounds smelly ;)
<brobostigon> lol.
<MartijnVdS> ooh vroom vroom is today?
<MartijnVdS> Spa right?
<brobostigon> yep
<brobostigon> in android FB messenger, in the contact list, whats the difference between your contact having a staus of "web" rather than "mobile"?
<SuperEngineer> it means your contact is a spider
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: "Web" means they're on the website, from their computer
<MartijnVdS> "Mobile" means they'll get the message on their phone, I guess
<brobostigon> i see, makes sense, ok, ty MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> could that also apply to using fb from a web browser on said mobile device?
<popey> brobostigon: using a browser on a phone shows as web, not mobile
<popey> mobile means mobile app
<brobostigon> ah, i see, ty popey
<SuperEngineer> sssh... it's pre-race vroom vroom coverage time :)
<mapps> think il watch the new need for speed
<foobarry> ping
<Myrtti> ping timeout
<foobarry> thats what i thought
<foobarry> nobody in since 15:00
<penguin42> shhh you might wake them
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/YSAGebw.jpg
<foobarry> today was AMAZING
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/Yu5iTO9.jpg
<shauno> I call shenanigans - that's not an airfix!
<popey> oh you went to wings & wheels?
<shauno> kinda bummer about richard attentborough.  but can I admit the first thing I did was double-check it was richard not david?
<zmoylan-pi> shiny vulcan
<zmoylan-pi> sure can't they just clone him now?  what could possibly go wrong? :-p
<diddledan> he'll start eating children?
<zmoylan-pi> i was sure he was in ice cold in alex.  i was wrong.  only 2 films i have with him in it are ghandi and a bridge too far.
<StevenR> hmm.... bit of a puzzler. I've an LTS 12.04 VM, running on an LTS14.04.1 host (KVM)... when I do-release-upgrade on the VM, it proceeds, everything appears to work... but when I reboot, I just get a big flat cursor (doesn't flash) and the VM won't go any further.... thoughts on how to start troubleshooting this?
<StevenR> I've rolled back the changes (I love rsnapshot for last week's version of the VM).
<StevenR> but I'd like to get it updated to 14.04.1
<penguin42> StevenR: which video type have you got chosen as the video card to be emulated?
<penguin42> StevenR: Whatever your answer, I'm going to tell you to chose one of the others
<StevenR> penguin42: Cirrus
<penguin42> StevenR: I'm fairly sure it works with vmvga so try that or qxl
<StevenR> ok. powered off, switches to vmvga and powered on again... lets see what happens to do-release-upgrade now :)
<StevenR> it's a tiny little VM with very few packages, so updating doesn't take long
<diddledan> typical. some folk are up-in-arms about the lesbian "let me breathe for you" aka kiss featured in last-night's dr who
<zmoylan-pi> some people will look for a reason to complain and complain if they can't find one
<penguin42> StevenR: Did it help?
<StevenR> penguin42: nope
<penguin42> hmph
<StevenR> penguin42: gonna have to come back to it another night. Thanks for the suggestion though (restored the virtual disk again)
<penguin42> no problem
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-17
<mappps> hi all
<diddledan> morning mappps
<mappps> morning..still up or just got up?
<diddledan> still up :-p
<mappps> ;D
<MooDoo> hello all
<knightwork> Morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> I miss JamesTait's morning greetings he so has to have a bot in place for next year
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwork> ehlo brobostigon , czajkowski
<brobostigon> hello knightwork
<knightwork> Watching a youtube video on how to get my simcard out of my Oneplus one.
<knightwork> it slid off the simcard cassette and is now stuck inside the device
<brobostigon> eeeek,
<knightwork> yep , the thing needs surgery now.
<brobostigon> oh dear, good luck.
<knightwork> brobostigon: should work if I slide a plastic card into it to "guide it out".
<knightwork> after that i'm kinda done with the oneplus i think.
<knightwork> next phone will probaly be a huawei or something.
<nucc1> when i see stories like this, i kinda feel glad i stick to the well-known brands :p
<nucc1> although my sony xperia z3 was a crappy build too â screen fell right off after about 3 months â poor glue job
<nucc1> and sony support is practically non-existent.
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Anyone fancy helping with a mail issue I'm having, "timed out while send Mail From" 442 error, it was just just one domian recieinb email from
<diplo> now 2-3
<diplo> Anything to look out for ?
<nucc1> port 25 working?
<nucc1> or is the mail client configured with the correct port?
<nucc1> and TLS or Starttls ?
<diplo> From what I can see it can be related to the sending server thinking you're spam but we're not in any blacklists
<nucc1> timed out suggests a network issue
<diplo> Yeah I thought the same ( Sorry issues with line herre, keep getting disconnected )
<diplo> Yeah receive 100's of other mails, just ttwo domains so far that are an issue
<diplo> Another thing I've just read is about MTU's being different on router / mail server
<nucc1> that shouldn't matter
<nucc1> TCP has a way of dealing with that.
<nucc1> if your internet is ADSL, you almost always have a lower MTU than the typical
<nucc1> there's only a problem with MTU if your MTU is bigger and there is a misconfigured router in the way that is not sending ICMP messages informing your router
<nucc1> diplo: try sending a small test email with no attachments. see if that goes through.
<diplo> yeah it's from remote mail to my clients, my emails go to them fine, it's just from two domains
<diplo> But those 2 customers are huge and want top make sure I've checked everything my end first before approaching them
<nucc1> you can't receive emails from 2 domains, or you can't send emails to those two domains?
<diplo> Receive
<nucc1> if the problem is receive, then the problem is at your end.
<diplo> And I can receive, it's sporadic 4.4.2 messages they get, some emails come through others don't
<nucc1> take some network captures on your mail server and see what's happening
<diplo> 100's of other emails come through fine each day
<diplo> hehe, just reading a post about that right now
<diplo> Rebooting my router brb can't deal with this lag
<nucc1> tcpdump -i any -s0 -w /var/tmp/smtp.cap host <mail-server-ip> and port <mail-port>
<diplo> k thanks
<nucc1> that will generate a file in /var/tmp/smtp.cap which you can view in wireshark
<nucc1> you run that capture, and send a test email (it's easier to see what's happening if there's no tls)
 * bashrc_ also has a mesh icmp issue, which is probably firewall related
<nucc1> if you know the source IP of the smtp client from which the email will arrive, it's also easier to follow the relevant tcp stream
<nucc1> bashrc_: what issue?
<bashrc_> at the weekend I was trying to set up batman adv. I could see the test peer via avahi, but couldn't ping it
<nucc1> likely firewall doesn't allow icmp yes â which is a bit of a silly thing to do anyway
<bashrc_> indeed the default firewall is pretty strict. Is there a port for icmp?
<diplo> k thanks
<nucc1> bashrc_: icmp is a layer 3 protocol. no ports.
<bashrc_> ah. So can it be blocked via firewall?
<nucc1> yes, a sensible firewall should have a checkmark that says "allow icmp"
<nucc1> Windows Firwall blocks icmp by default too
<bashrc_> almost certainly I don't have that, so will need to check
 * bashrc_ is using iptables
<nucc1> i never figured out how to allow icmp except by disabling the damn thing
<bashrc_> I have an ultra strict firewall which blocks all the things, and then I selectively open only the needed ports
<nucc1> ping is icmp-type echo-request and echo-reply
<nucc1> probably wiser to allow all icmp
<bashrc_> yes
<nucc1> some people think that disabling icmp improves security, but it doesnt.
<nucc1> disabling icmp is like shooting the internet in the foot
<nucc1> people can still detect that your server is live by opening a connection to port 80, 443, 25, etc
<bashrc_> for the regular internet server I do disable icmp (I don't need it), but for mesh being able to ping is useful
<nucc1> especially for the internet server, you shoudl enable icmp
<nucc1> icmp is the mechanism via which clients detect mismatch on MTU and workaround it
<nucc1> when a client sends a packet that is too big, the router is supposed to send an ICMP Fragmentation-Needed packet
<nucc1> the receiving client then knows to use smaller packets.
<nucc1> If firewalls drop this icmp, the connection will eventually fail, because the packets aren't making it through, and the client is not being told
<nucc1> and like i said, disabling icmp does not make you "invisible" on the internet.
<bashrc_> in my case disabling icmp on the internet server doesn't have any deleterious effects. It's been running for years that way
<nucc1> you might not realise it
<nucc1> if your server is not critical, people would just ignore any issues they have with it
<nucc1> you're not less safe if you enable it
<nucc1> personally, i use 2-Fa auth, and fail2ban
<bashrc_> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-iptables-9-allow-icmp-ping.html
<nucc1> i only use iptables to block outright abusers.
<nucc1> bashrc_: ping is not important. it's the other icmp types that are important.
<bashrc_> in my case I'd just like to test mesh peers with ping
<bashrc_> I can use batctl ping, but I also want to test layer 3
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> Morning bigcalm
<popey> afternoon
<bigcalm> So, back to trying to upgrade these client servers
<bigcalm> Being ill last week got in the way a little
<popey> clients or servers?
<bigcalm> Servers owned by a client
<davmor2> popey: their clients, servers
<bigcalm> Client's servers
<bigcalm> <jpds> bigcalm: It's more likely that they block port 11371
<bigcalm> <jpds> bigcalm: Try: hkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com:80
<bigcalm> So I tried this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12106844/ & http://paste.ubuntu.com/12106850/
<davmor2> popey: keep up it's only been a fortnight since he spoke about it last what's wrong with you ;)
<bigcalm> It was last Tuesday
<bigcalm> apt-get update still fails: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12106878/
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's like a month in canonical time ;)
<bigcalm> Heh
<davmor2> bigcalm: sounds like the system they use is using a bastardised version of ubuntu possibly
<popey> well, again, you need the key :)
<bigcalm> 5 weeks to beer train :)
<bigcalm> popey: but the import with apt-key didn't work I take it
<popey> i just tested that command and it worked perfectly from my machine here
<popey> (the sudo apt-key adv --keyserver hkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com:80 --recv-keys 40976EAF437D05B5 )
<bigcalm> Okay, so I did get the correct format
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> The client's hosting company is getting in the way with their firewall I guess
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12106897/
<popey> you can test that with telnet surely?
<popey> telnet keyserver.ubuntu.com 80
<awilkins> At the worst you could get the key manually and paste it into the terminal?
<popey> then "GET /" and see what happens
<popey> you should get a bunch of html from cassava.canonical.com
<popey> if you don't then probably a firewall or some other nonsense in the way
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12106909/
<bigcalm> It returned HTML, but with a status 400
<popey> ok, good, so not a firewall issue
<bigcalm> I get the same response from my machine here
<awilkins> Response is from a squid proxy
<popey> there are lots of results on google for "gpg: [don't know]: invalid packet (ctb=2d)"
<popey> like you're receiving a corrupt key
<jpds> bigcalm: Can't you just put the key into a text file and copy and paste it into the server?
<popey> bigcalm: what happens if you just "gpg --recv-key 1054b7a24bd6ec30" ?
<bigcalm> jpds: it may come to that
<popey> yeah, you could just get it from http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x1054B7A24BD6EC30
<jpds> bigcalm: Seems like it'll make your life easier
<popey> doesn't explain why it fails to get it though
<bigcalm> guruuser@GRU01DBS01TEST:~$ gpg --recv-key 1054b7a24bd6ec30
<bigcalm> gpg: requesting key 4BD6EC30 from hkp server keys.gnupg.net
<bigcalm> It's sitting there, doing nothing
<bigcalm> I guess it'll timeout
<jpds> bigcalm: Nice hostname
<bigcalm> :D
<nucc1> usually those hostnames are derived from a pattern
<nucc1> sometimes, organisation, department, location, and a serial
<bigcalm> Which would make sense for a hosting company
<nucc1> yea
<awilkins> Ugh, I hate those hostnames
<awilkins> And I know they have a purpose
<nucc1> they are easy to work with once you know the pattern
<nucc1> it's better than "fancy" names which you have to remember
<nucc1> somebody tells you we have a problem with the accounting server 03, and you can workout the hostname
<nucc1> if they all have star names or movie character names etc, then you need a lookup to determine which accounting server is being referred to
<awilkins> I say have both... a scheme of boring names for that reason, and memorable names for other reasons
<awilkins> I tend to select names that have *some* correlation with the server purpose
<awilkins> Gods from old pantheons are good :-)
<awilkins> Like haephestus for a build server
<nucc1> memorable names tend not to work
 * bashrc_ named one server "Zardos"
 * jpds always names his stuff after a theme
<jpds> Plenty of "List of" wikipedia pages
<popey> we used to use themes
<popey> we don't seem to anymore
<popey> i blame jpds
<jpds> popey: I blame cloud
<awilkins> I started using Wikipedia lists of things to name releases in the Ubuntu manner ( Apple, Banana, Clementine )
<awilkins> Themed, where possible (for software designed to do things for a surgical classification, particular operations)
<awilkins> (the one for diseases was great fun)
<awilkins> opening with your "Anthrax" release :-)
<popey> we used to use herbs, birds
<popey> elements, rocks?
<popey> painters...
<popey> https://launchpad.net/builders
<jpds> popey: So you don't like Gatwick?
<popey> haha
<awilkins> Ah, good old lgw-01-22
<jpds> lcy01-13 was always my favourite
<popey> I had a build fail on lgw01-12 yesterday :(
<popey> knew he was no good
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/daily/+build/7805065 :(
<jpds> Well, can't really blame him given it's libreoffiec
<popey> it builds locally
<awilkins> That's always a problem with people not checking in local resources though :-P
<bigcalm> I've gone with the installing keys from files, but apt-get update is still unhappy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12107046/
<bigcalm> I then wondered what sudo apt-key list would give: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12107047/
<bigcalm> Not sure where to go from here
<popey> file a support ticket with provider?
<bigcalm> Already did so with the client who then talks to the provider. Client has gone on holiday for 2 weeks
<bigcalm> If there is nothing else I can do, I'll move on to other things I guess
<davmor2> popey: this will make you smile I just had an insurance quote at Â£722 :D  When I said ouch I think she knew they had not got the sale :)
<popey> hah
<popey> why so high?
<davmor2> popey: my average is around Â£360
<popey> our babysitter just got a brand new Audi on lease, for insurance she has to have a black box tracking her speed etc
<popey> mine's about 270 iirc
<directhex> i have no idea what i'm paying for insurance
<directhex> i had to fork over a few quid extra vs. the prius, mid-policy
<davmor2> popey: Our issue is that our address is on one of the busiest roads in wolverhampton it also how like 8 sets of traffic lights that people refuse to stop for if they can avoid it so there are plenty of accidents so mine goes rocketing
<directhex> renewal is october
<davmor2> popey: our old address the other side of the carpark the same carpark the car is still parked on was Â£160 cheaper
<davmor2> sorry Â£120
<popey> blimey
<zmoylan-pi> your baby sitter drives an audi...
<popey> yes.
 * bigcalm drums his fingers waiting for the Talos Principle to download on the office computer
<bigcalm> Office broadband sucjs
<bigcalm> and sucks
<zmoylan-pi> or more accurately lacks suckage :-)
<bigcalm> directhex: I have screen shots of you getting out of a coffin. It's most disturbing
<directhex> bigcalm: sounds like a friday night to me
<bigcalm> I guess you are the only person I know on Steam who has played the game, so your name keeps popping up
<bigcalm> Would see other names if other people played it
<bigcalm> Or are you Elohim?
<bigcalm> Is there a way to get a process back after it has been started with a trailing &
<bigcalm> ?
<popey> reptyr can do that
<daftykins> hmm there's something about foregrounding
<popey> https://github.com/nelhage/reptyr
<popey> not tried it for a while tho
<bigcalm> iain@dumbo:~$ reptyr 26080
<bigcalm> Unable to attach to pid 26080: Operation not permitted
<bigcalm> It's a cp that I should have started behind a screen
<zleap> 20,000 that is a lot of processes if you have nearly 20,000
<bigcalm> Was trying to move it over, but did an incorrect step
<bigcalm> iain@dumbo:~$ ps aux | wc
<bigcalm>     130    1518   10642
<bigcalm> There isn't 20k of processes running
<shauno> more likely just a lot of uptime.  pids aren't recycled until they need to be
<bigcalm> 192 days
<popey> does reptyr need root/sudo?
<zleap> nice
<bigcalm> iain@dumbo:~$ sudo reptyr 26080
<bigcalm> [-] Unable to open the tty in the child.
<bigcalm> Unable to attach to pid 26080: Permission denied
<popey> bigcalm: there's some notes on the github page
<popey> [M#bIptrace_scope on Ubuntu Maverick and up
<bigcalm> Only 200GB left in the copy
<popey> that bit
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> popey: thanks :)
<daftykins> bigcalm: does "jobs" list the copy that's running out of interest?
<bigcalm> daftykins: no
<daftykins> probably irrelevant but happened to see it in a google result
<daftykins> ah ok
<bigcalm> Because it's been placed into the background
<bigcalm> Woot, reptyr 26080 worked that time
<popey> yay
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-18
<diddledan> I'm not greedy. I only want "a bit"
<daftykins> 0
<daftykins> there y'go
<diddledan> could have at least made it a 1
<daftykins> :(
<diddledan> windows got me pulling my hair
<diddledan> 260 character limit on paths
<diddledan> >.<
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> why don't you put things in X:\a\b\c\d\
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> ntfs supposedly supports 32k but the win32 api has a constant which says that the max_path is 260
<diddledan> makes it a pain when you've got oodles of javascript/nodejs libraries
<diddledan> so I've got a path which windows has helpfully shortened already for viewing using their dos-compatible ~1 notation, which looks like:
<diddledan> C:\Users\Daniel\web\RLEC\content\themes\rlec2\NODE_M~1\GRUNT-~1\NODE_M~1\OPTIPN~1\NODE_M~1\tar\NODE_M~1\fstream\NODE_M~1\rimraf\NODE_M~1\glob\NODE_M~1\MINIMA~1\NODE_M~1\BRACE-~1\NODE_M~1\CONCAT~1\example
<diddledan> that's 9 or 10 nested node_modules folders
<daftykins> why don't you start at the root?
<diddledan> well it's too long even for that
<diddledan> I'm trying to copy it to E:\web
<daftykins> but like in general :>
<daftykins> those are definitely some horrible paths
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> m00
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<zmoylan-pi> greetings mammals
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> friend of my dads says there are some free office chairs and desks going at a bank nearby 8D
<daftykins> no other way around, a friends dad :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: they could be both :P
<daftykins> dun-dun-duuuuuun!
<daftykins> :D
<bashrc> greetings citizens of the interwebs
<davmor2> MooDoo: bit of rock today Europe Final Countdown!
<zmoylan-pi> nothing as much fun as getting free furniture from a skip :-)
<daftykins> doo da doo doo... da-da-doo-doo-doo ~
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> daftykins: that's the police who sang that you can't blag my head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v2GDbEmjGE
<zmoylan-pi> when dec shut down office in dublin they dumped a tonne of alpha powered pcs.  a mate filched one on his scooter.  he thought he was extreme till he saw one been pushed home on skateboard :-)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all, what do you all use for local dns? so fileserver.local etc to resolve correctly? Do people use bind or something else?
<shauno> I usually trust .local to avahi?
<diplo> What needs doing to set this up? Never looked at it before, just got to the page now
<bashrc> I did get mesh pinging working last night, and it was the firewall that was blocking it
<daftykins> wow that office was insane, fancy bank with prime real estate right in the centre of town here. my mates dad is doing the air con so he had access through a back door through the boiler room :D
<daftykins> tonnes of desks and chairs all stacked up and rounded up free to grab
<daftykins> many heads turned as me and him wheeled a pair through the high street to my place :>
<zmoylan-pi> a good desk is a nice find
<daftykins> ooh yes
<daftykins> my current one is 1600 wide by 800 deep, got it for Â£25 from an office bankruptcy sale
<daftykins> auction, even
<daftykins> these banks are horrifying, surplus gear and upgrading to brand new stuff because nobody wants to be known for buying second hand gear
<daftykins> the College i taught at last had already started getting donated quad core machines when i was there back in 2011
<zmoylan-pi> daftykins has never tried to convince an accountant to use openoffice over excel :-)
<bashrc> I don't mind being known for buying second hand gear. I think it's a good idea to maximise the use of things
<daftykins> bashrc: indeed
<daftykins> but apparently it's a reputation thing that one bank wouldn't take from another
<zmoylan-pi> i would at one time have said 2nd hand is ok... except for mobile devices as they take much more abuse but i have recently gotten a few 2nd hand nokias, they're indestructable
 * bashrc has a second hand samsung phone
<zmoylan-pi> saw a 2nd hand apple watch for sale over weekend... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/633335059790045185/photo/1
<daftykins> this is a novel one http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2291141
<awilkins> Looks like he wiped his Windows partition
<awilkins> Oopsie
<daftykins> claims that's just viewing 'something else', weird for the disk to show as blank
<daftykins> they sure are in force this morning.
<daftykins> trolling Aussies, rubbish users...
<DJones> JUst mention "The ashes" to them
<MooDoo> DJones: you can't really as they did the same to us on the first day of the womens ashes :(
<MooDoo> hmmm maybe i was miss informed
<daftykins> MooDoo: wasn't she playing?
<daftykins> ;)
<MooDoo> :p
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12117589/ another one bites the dust ~
<daftykins> particularly nasty one that o0
<diddledan> morning head is Final Countdown?! omg! amazeballs!
<daftykins> morning wat?
<davmor2> diddledan: indeed
<diddledan> daftykins: davmor2's morning-head songs
<davmor2> daftykins: morning head songs
<davmor2> daftykins: Most morning I wake up with a song in my head, although the last too were complete albums to be fair oxygene and tubular bells
<daftykins> oh just something you wake up with playing in your mind?
<daftykins> mmm i have a shower one o' those
<diddledan> tubular bells is epic
<daftykins> i don't think i've ever sampled
<popey> i woke up this morning at 5am after having an odd dream about driving my family on a trip. My sister and I had a massive argument in the dream and I woke up.
<zmoylan-pi> and oxygene is incredible for an album made without a synthisizer
<popey> I went back to sleep to finish off the argument it was so much fun!
<diddledan> I don't know oxygene
 * diddledan googles
<MooDoo> i woke up the other day and the misses was really mad at me, she wouldn't speak to me, apparently i wasn't nice to her in her dreams.
<popey> \o/ dreams
<diddledan> MooDoo: lol
<daftykins> aww i never get to resume the fun ones
<diddledan> I hate when you wake up mid-dream and hope you can continue when you fall asleep again only for it to go off rather weirdly
<daftykins> MooDoo: that doesn't sound very reasonable :(
<MooDoo> daftykins: well it happens :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: then you woke up, and she was really mad at you and wouldn't speak to you...
<MooDoo> davmor2: no i got the cold shoulder all day lol
<daftykins> daym
<daftykins> you should record yourself and find out what you do :P
<davmor2> daftykins: sings Sam Fox songs in his sleep
<daftykins> i don't know that name :>
<davmor2> Man
<daftykins> perhaps there's a chalkboard under his side of the bed and he runs his fingernails down it
<davmor2> daftykins: Oh so you have heard Sam Fox then
<davmor2> :D
<daftykins> by extension XD
<davmor2> daftykins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD33AxebRAg
<davmor2> daftykins: http://open.spotify.com/user/1142386698/playlist/2nlSxBLEbfKpvDqSDG8hP8 incase you want to listen along
 * diddledan_ listens to the podcast
<diddledan_> seriously windows defrag is opaque - it's been running on this system since about 3am when I clicked "GO" and it's now onto "Pass 42"
<bashrc> windows defrag is evil
<shauno> just buy an ssd instead :)
<daftykins> lol 42
<daftykins> i've never seen it go beyond about 8
<daftykins> your disk must have been organised by Oracle project management
<diddledan_> aah it's finished
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nipper/the-nipper-the-worlds-smallest-phone-charger
<diddledan_> lol
<daftykins> love the way Apple are the only ones not working ;)
<awilkins> A shame they legislated on the phone charger hole before USB-C was around
<awilkins> But glad they did anyway
<awilkins> USB-C is of course our saviour for every form of connectivity that needs 100W of power or less
<awilkins> Charge your laptop? USB-C. Connect to your high-end DV camera? USB-C thunderbolt cable
<daftykins> i don't think that'll come to most laptops
<awilkins> What, USB-C as the charge port?
<awilkins> Or USB-C at all?
<daftykins> providing 100W in most implementations
<daftykins> and so having the proper charging feature
<awilkins> Oh heckins no, not providing it
<daftykins> i don't think i worded that too well :>
<awilkins> Maybe lots of USB-C powered hubs with a honking great kettle lead in them :-)
<directhex> how wasteful is that? churning through AA batteries?
<shauno> who still has AA batteries?
<shauno> I mean, besides robbing them from the telly remote, which would be an unpopular way to charge your phone
<davmor2> shauno: I do
<davmor2> shauno: I have aaa too and c d and 9v too
<shauno> aha.  I know who to visit next time my smoke detector starts whining then :)
<shauno> I have just enough rechargable AA's for my camera's flash, but can never seem to find them all at the same time :/
<davmor2> shauno: well the 9v is at the caravan for smoke alarm there :)
<zmoylan-pi> go get some lithium aa batteries, they last yonks
<shauno> still seems quite inefficient
<shauno> 3000mAh for "energizer ultimate lithium".  which'll act like 1800mAh once they've boosted 3v to 5v (if their booster is 100% efficient).
<davmor2> shauno: well remember that you are just a battery enslaved and used by a machine army to stay alive because we burnt the skies to kill their energy source
<shauno> my phone's 1440mah, and that's one of the smaller apple ones
<shauno> so a pair of those nice expensive lithium non-rechargables will charge my phone once
<popey> It's an emergency charger
<popey> It's not intended to be for regular use.
<zmoylan-pi> there are a few chargers that will give an iphone a few extra hours with 2 aa duracells in them
<popey> I have loads of AAs, kids with toys means AAs all over the house.
<zmoylan-pi> how many of the toys are yours? :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: all of the Kids plus his so 100% ish
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-19
<mappps> quite fond of ths the strain
<mappps> anupne else watch?
<mappps> hmm need to find some good films last few have been rubbish
<mappps> noone awake?!
<Myrtti> just considering going to bed myself
<mappps> O_o
<mappps> what you been doin all night
<Myrtti> it's just past 22 here
<mappps> oh
<mappps> 7am here=]
<Myrtti> I know
<Myrtti> trip is coming to an end soon, back to good old Blighty on Sunday
<Myrtti> but tomorrow is sea otters!
<Myrtti> so excited
<mappps> nice
<mappps> where?
<Myrtti> Monterey Aquarium
<mappps> cool:D
<mappps> sounds fun;]
<mappps> i used to have a season pass to the aquarium in portsmouth;D
<Myrtti> I'm at this level of excitement: https://instagram.com/p/6ZLGrmIEwg/
<mappps> ;D
<knightwise> morning
<mappps> morning;]
<knightwise> Damn :( . Synology cloud station doesnt appear to work on my ubuntu machine
<knightwise> downloaded the deb file from their site , installed it , and the first couple of reboots it syncs and works fine
<mappps> wathed 2 eps of the strain now murder in the first
<knightwise> then the icon disappears from the taskbar and the whole thing stops syncing
<mappps> hm that sucks
<knightwise> Damn :( I sync my work folders using that app
<mappps> what is it synolog cloud station
<knightwise> its kinda like a dropbox service but for your synology NAS folders
<knightwise> hmm.. reinstalled it . hope it works now.
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> wow didn't realise I owned the first Ubuntu UK team on launchpad - better close that one then :D - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-united-kingdom
<MooDoo> Ubuntu United Kingdom
<MooDoo> still makes me smile that I've been on launchpad since 2006
<davmor2> MooDoo: 2005-09-12
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: that your launchpad creation date?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Yeap
<davmor2> MooDoo: member since
<MooDoo> nice, still not done enough for Ubuntu to become a member
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<davmor2> diddledan_: let see what you make of this mornings head song :)
<trrfdkgsakdl> Is this a supprot channel?
<popey> sure
<trrfdkgsakdl> Why do we need uk-specific support channels wtf
<popey> well, it's not uk specific
<popey> it's a team channel
<trrfdkgsakdl> Why is it -uk then?
<popey> the official support channel is #ubuntu
<popey> because most of us are from the UK
<trrfdkgsakdl> I don't get it
<popey> it's a team channel
<popey> not a dedicated support channel
<trrfdkgsakdl> wtf is a team channel?
<popey> a channel used by a team of people
<popey> to.. uh.. communicate
<trrfdkgsakdl> I wanted to ask how can I book holiday in the UK if it is for after my job is due to end
<trrfdkgsakdl> Because I have accrued holiday days
<trrfdkgsakdl> But I want to go in November, but my job will end in october
<trrfdkgsakdl> So how do I?
<Knightwork> so .. what does this have to do with Ubuntu  ?:)
<popey> Ask your employer?
<popey> Knightwork: there's a lot we talk about here that's nothing to do with ubuntu :)
<Knightwork> afternoon popey , good podcast show again.
<trrfdkgsakdl> popey:Okay, good idea
<Knightwork> popey: that is true
<popey> Knightwork: thanks
 * popey notes Knightwork isn't from the UK :)
 * Knightwork is Belgian ! :) 
<trrfdkgsakdl> What Linux distribution does David Cameron use?
<popey> He seems like a RHEL kinda guy to me.
<trrfdkgsakdl> Is there a Linux distribution for users who hate poor people?
<popey> probably.
<popey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions
 * czajkowski is irish
<bashrc> Ubuntu satanic edition?
<czajkowski> fun nice friendly channel
<trrfdkgsakdl> Does anyone else sometimes feel a lot of distributions are pointless?
<Knightwork> bashrc: believe it or not .. i used it on my EEEPc
<Knightwork> it wasnt bad !
<trrfdkgsakdl> When they are just a mainstream distro with a few different default packages and artwork
<trrfdkgsakdl> knightwise:What's the point when you could just use Ubuntu and install Satanic artwork?
<Knightwork> trrfdkgsakdl: I was a noob at the time and wanted to try something new :) + they had a nice spin for the EEEpc
<trrfdkgsakdl> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJYGddE0vHc
<trrfdkgsakdl> knightwise:I have an EeePC
<trrfdkgsakdl> One of the old ones
<popey> kinda wish i still had my 701
<trrfdkgsakdl> I still have my 901
 * Knightwork still has his
<trrfdkgsakdl> popey:Why did you get rid of your 701?
<popey> i quite liked the distro it came with
<popey> sold it
<popey> i had two, sold one, one broke iirc
<czajkowski> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33989384 ohh how weird!
<popey> blame Knightwork
<bashrc> divine retribution?
<trrfdkgsakdl> You can't run from heaven
<diddledan_> ello
<nucc1> y'ello
<diddledan_> I wonder what that 0.000001% of data amounts to in MB/GB
<nucc1> NaN
<diddledan_> (referencing czajkowski's link)
<MooDoo> ello
<diddledan_> m00
<MooDoo> 0.000001% of (1 megabyte) =
<MooDoo> 0.01 bytes
<diddledan_> MooDoo: yeah but how many megabytes does google have in it's belgian datacentre
<davmor2> you'd think they would have lightning rods really wouldn't you
<nucc1> of course they do :)
<nucc1> but they were struck 4 times
<MooDoo> diddledan_: well looking at the US each DC has beetween 40 and 400+ thoousand sservers
<MooDoo> so then think about if each server had 1TB drives in it, etc etc etc
<MooDoo> no one apart from google knows how many servers exactly
<nucc1> diddledan_: this is why i said NaN :p
<shauno> I was led to believe they multihomed so much that no data should be unique to one DC.  but apparently not!
<diddledan_> shauno: yeah I was surprised by that too
<nucc1> my impression is that the data was lost was the data that hadn't been replicated yet, which would explain why it is such a small percentage
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<webpigeon> o/
<webpigeon> oo someone is having connection related troubles
<zmoylan-pi> hokey cokey wifi
<webpigeon> you put the irc user in, the irc user out, in, out?
<zmoylan-pi> looks like it
 * diddledan_ shakes it all about. then gets told-off for indecent exposure
<MartijnVdS> shake it off, shake it off
<diddledan_> MartijnVdS: is that better or worse than pulling it off?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan_: depends on your goal I guess
<diddledan_> ooh, new beta build of win10
<shauno> joy?
<diddledan_> not much different according to the blog post
<shauno> it still installs windows like the last one?
<diddledan_> the most visible thing is apparently the ability to select what to apply the "hint colour" to (taskbar, window borders etc)
<diddledan_> it comes via windows update but I've not installed it yet
<diddledan_> lookee like it's ready tho. so. *clicks reboob*
<daftykins> yay colours!
<diddledan> right. that's whirring now
<diddledan> shauno: it's doing the pulsing circle upgrade method like the initial win10 upgrade (or for insiders on each of the original prerelease builds)
<shauno> fancy
<shauno> (never tried those either)
<brobostigon> my gf is having issues with IOS, so i am ignoring, populerist, but ultimatly fashionable OS's, like microsoft windows.
<brobostigon> fashionable = pop music
<daftykins> what's it doing, brobostigon ?
<daftykins> or not as the case may be
<brobostigon> daftykins: itunes music syncing, apparently.
<brobostigon> daftykins: my suggestion was, we export all her music to freedom music, and free her up of the mad apple'ness.
<daftykins> ;)
<shauno> you should get her to give all her data to the biggest advertising agency in town, seems to work for everyone else ;)
<daftykins> does that mean a streaming service?
<diddledan> IOS is cisco's router operating system
<diddledan> I think you might mean iOS
 * brobostigon walks up to shauno and spanks him. but ultimatly agrees with his statement.
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> brobostigon: how does having issues with a iPWN make you ignore windows?
<diddledan> methinks that's orthogonal
<brobostigon> diddledan: because they are both, popularist, but ultimatly pointless OS's.
<diddledan> oic. associative disorder
<diddledan> well I'm 44% through on re-selling my soul
 * brobostigon is using haiku, so he is heavenly.
<diddledan> I've lost count of how many times I've sold my soul now. the problem is I'm actually just getting deeper into soul-debt because I never paid off the first time and subsequent times are just incremental loans
<zmoylan-pi> try rent-a-soul :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I went with the bargain-basement rent-a-sole
<shauno> they actually take your shoes back when you're done with them?  eww
<diddledan> I didn't quite achieve my ambitions through that enterprise
<diddledan> shauno: like bowling alleys
 * brobostigon would have ultimatly been happy, in designing the perfect workstation with BeOS, however haiku changed this, and still wants the perfect, mulri'procession workstation.
<brobostigon> multi*
<brobostigon> multi'processing*
<diddledan> I don't actually know anything about beos other than it was supposed to be awesome for multimedia
<brobostigon> BeOS*
<shauno> from what I gather, it's pretty much nirvana for people who want to be the underdog
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> i thought that was os/2 :-)
 * brobostigon thinks haiku is the best designed OS ever, its perfection.
<shauno> that's because you're still in the 80s ;)
<diddledan> so how many hands do I need to count the power-of-two of the number of haiku users?
<diddledan> 1?
<diddledan> </troll. in case that wasn't obvious>
 * brobostigon resorts to spanking diddledan aswell, for jokes like that,
<diddledan> ooh, yeah baby, harder! :-D
<brobostigon> :)
 * diddledan notices the second link in the topic. what are IR Clogs?
<diddledan> hint: I'm a moron
<diddledan> speaking of which, have you found jesus?
<zmoylan-pi> in a mexican phone book
<diddledan> http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Have_828167_352060.jpg
<brobostigon> that reminds me, is the pope really catholic, or just plain bat nutty?
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> popey: well?
<shauno> are the two mutually exclusive?
<brobostigon> does the pope have bat wings?
<diddledan> shauno: you'd hope so. I really don't want to know what a bat nutty catholic is likely to say
<brobostigon> :)
<shauno> I dunno man.  9 years in Ireland, I could probably take a good guess :p
<diddledan> that's like nuts^2
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-20
<diddledan> aha, win10 is done upgrading
 * popey looks at Myrtti and Myrtti__2 and Myrtti__3 and Myrtti__4 as well as Myrtti__1 and Myrtti___ 
<diddledan> popey: manymyrrti!
<diddledan> spelign
<zmoylan-pi> some one got their cloning research finished :-)
<m0nkey_> So that's why she went to California.
<m0nkey_> Cloning experiments
 * zmoylan-pi hums stop the Myrtti 
<daftykins> *facepalm*
<daftykins> not the best of examples for a staffer to give :P
<zmoylan-pi> they've raised a large enough myrtti army and are now out terrorising the city
<zmoylan-pi> or at least those parts of it that have moomins :-)
<m0nkey_> anyone know of a good syslog viewer.. specifically web based?
<MartijnVdS> m0nkey_: logstash/kibana? (java alert)
<knightwise> morning everyone
 * knightwise just switched to Gnome Shell on his XPS13.
<maps> hi all
<maps> just home from work:D
<knightwise> hey maps
<knightwise> so , been fun cleaning the batmobile ? (obviously that is the only job you can do at night)
<knightwise> or you ARE batman
<maps> haha
<maps> work for a gambling company
<maps> not batman
<maps> ;]
<knightwise> aha
<knightwise> maintenance night ?
<maps> trading dept
<knightwise> cool . But that explains why you are such a nocturnal creature then :)
<maps> ;]
<corenominal> Good morning :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> evening
<davmor2> Morning bigcalm
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka bit of bon jovi today
<MooDoo> davmor2: nice
<davmor2> MooDoo: it was the mouth harp part of the beginning of blaze of glory that was stuck, just cycling over and over in my head :)
<davmor2> Now this is a caravan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuAx-QAoSEU
<popey> correct
<shauno> screen-scraping some of the ugliest html I've ever seen,  $deity preserve me :/
<awilkins> Get the regex out!
<awilkins> You'll hate it, but it will distract you from how much you hate the HTML
<awilkins> An instance where two problems is better than one
<awilkins> I have a new fondness for jQuery for that kind of thing TBH
 * popey hugs beautiful soup
<popey> been very handy when I needed to scrape
<awilkins> Just from it's wikipedia page it looks a bit like how I think of jQuery, possibly
<awilkins> Had to do some *horrible* scraping recently
<awilkins> Pages had a bunch of expanda-blocks that were populated at expand-time using an API call
<awilkins> Wrote a greasemonkey script that jQueried all the expandablocks and did the API calls for them, logged it to the SQLite database it uses for user persistence
<awilkins> Then wrote a script to automate loading all the pages and a script to make the JSON responses into a CSV
<knightwise> anyone know anything about W7 partition tables ?
<KrisDouglas> knightwise, what's the issue?
<directhex> knightwise: ?
<davmor2> DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY-O,  DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY-O, daylight come and me wanna go home
 * zmoylan-pi hands davmor2 a banana
<daftykins> i see the myrttis are carrying on :P
<zmoylan-pi> âª daylight come and she wanna log in... â«
<daftykins> day-oooo!
 * diddledan wanders in
<daftykins> oh, it's you!
<diddledan> it is?
<diddledan> omg!
<diddledan> shoo!
<diddledan> get out!
<daftykins> well i thought i'd better look at the income tax return online site
<diddledan> eep
<daftykins> and sure enough no idea what the login details are, so i guess that's another year waiting for them to be posted (no really)
<diddledan> oh dear :-(
<diddledan> the british use a random number for the self-assessment login
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> i.e. you have to know the random number AND your complex password
<diddledan> you can't replace the number with something like a nickname
<daftykins> Myrtti: sort out your connection for the love of Tux!
<diddledan> so my login id is something like 1234567890 and my password
<daftykins> apparently i have a 'memorable word'
<diddledan> no way am I remembering that number
<zmoylan-pi> is it the name of that place in wales with longest name and the entry field only takes 20 characters? :-)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> llanfair-pg
<diddledan> (abbrv)
<daftykins> he speaks their tongue!
<diddledan> I can say a fairly good rendition of it too
<zmoylan-pi> or the random number is iota and you're trying to work out how to put sqr(-1) into a numbers only box?
<daftykins> holy moly i'm in!
<diddledan> OMG J00 HAXX0R
<zmoylan-pi> that or it's a fake site looking to collect his info...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: be honest, you seek those out to give the crooks duff-gen (bad info)
 * zmoylan-pi signs diddledan up to a bunch of ashley madison related sites... :-)
<diddledan> meh, I'm already there :-p
<daftykins> take that, gibson
<daftykins> mother kins would like to know how one obtains a # on a mac? :S
<daftykins> http://kb.parallels.com/Attachments/19485/Images/wireless-british.jpg
<diddledan> alt+3
<daftykins> certainly that horrid little fellow doesn't give it up o0
<daftykins> o rly
<daftykins> i have passed that on, ty sir
<daftykins> though she called it 'hashtag' so i'm still cringing
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> at least it's not a "poundtag"
<diddledan> if the americans had named it then that's what they'd have called it (when used how twitter uses it)
<daftykins> indeed, i was just ribbing the americans about that
<diddledan> this looks awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yzo-QwwWjk
<daftykins> hmm don't know anything about them folk
<diddledan> http://www.windowscentral.com/google-working-fix-chrome-crashes-windows-10 yey ms broke sh....t
<neuro> floofen haffen
<diddledan> ohdear: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34007859
<neuro> i have rediscovered IRC on the Mac ... be afraid
<shauno> hm, javascript anyone? ;)  how do I reference an object's member by a variable?  like I want to do something.$id=, so if $id was 'bob' I'd be hitting something.bob
<diddledan> shauno: use array notation
<neuro> or don't use javascript at all
<neuro> jpc
<diddledan> object['member'+id]
<shauno> if not using javascript was an option, my day would have gone much, much better :)
<diddledan> or even in your case object[id]
<shauno> woah, that actually works
<diddledan> something[id] == something.bob when id=bob
<shauno> I actually ditched arrays because I couldn't figure out how to push arrays with a key->value mess
<diddledan> o_O
<shauno> but pretending an object is still an array seems to work.  this language is designed to hurt
<neuro> which was kinda my point ;)
<diddledan> arrays and objects are essentially the same thing in javascript
<neuro> they're both evil
<diddledan> I discovered coffeescript outputs really nice code yesterday
<davmor2> diddledan: Liar
 * neuro wanders off to find sustenance
<davmor2> diddledan: if you'd of said distinctly average I could of believed you ;)
<diddledan> I kinda think this is really quite elegant: https://github.com/diddledan/circ/blob/native-tls/package/bin/net/ssl_socket.js
<popey> hello neuro
 * diddledan neurolises everyone
<diddledan> time to watch mr robot
<daftykins> domo arigato
<neuro> evenin mr popey
<popey> hows tricks?
<neuro> not bad
<neuro> currently on a forced vacation
<neuro> as in "you have 25 days to take before the end of the year, TAKE HOLIDAYS!"
<neuro> totally forgot to take any days off this year
<diddledan> neuro: that's crazy
<neuro> i know, right?
<neuro> i'm loving my job though
<diddledan> neuro: surely they'd prefer you actually earnt them money
<neuro> ?
<neuro> you'd rather work for a company that didn't care if you took time off or not?
<diddledan> it's a fine line
<Pendulum> neuro: do they need to pay you the vacation time at the end of the year if you don't take it?
<neuro> no
<neuro> i can carry 5 days
<neuro> i'd lose the rest
<diddledan> this is getting silly: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/aug/20/google-ordered-to-remove-links-to-stories-about-right-to-be-forgotten-removals
<zmoylan-pi> we should build a monument or paint a list of the urls and see if they try and censor art :-)
<diddledan> I don't get how something that is on public record is allowed to be censured
<zmoylan-pi> we do allow injunctions to keep things out of the media.  uk also has super injunctions which are legendary for their tell no one anything
<diddledan> I mean what if I specifically wanted to find out about said person's criminal conviction?
<diddledan> I can't because it's hidden
<zmoylan-pi> then if it's covered by the injunction you lose some info
<diddledan> yeah but these right to be forgotten requests aren't being superinjuncted
<zmoylan-pi> unless of course you have a mate in the know who supplies the info under the table
<diddledan> it's about random person in the street who I want to find out what the crime was they alluded to in conversation
<diddledan> they've previously filed a right to be forgotten and so I can't find out about it
<diddledan> but the right to be forgotten isn't stripping the public records available at county records offices
<zmoylan-pi> it's getting to the point you'll need to pull down a yearly wikipedia, plus news articles of home country just to have an untampered local record
<diddledan> so I can go there and find out anyway
<maps> hm
<maps> off to pizza express
<maps> never been before
<maps> better or worse than dominos?
<directhex> maps: much better
<maps> ;D
<diddledan> gotta love network gear: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CdrKLotRRCM/VdXwUo6X5II/AAAAAAAAD3A/jUzE40ev1rk/s1600/171351.jpg
<directhex> diddledan: ooh, a fancy router!
<zmoylan-pi> is that the one with the fingerprint reader? :-)
 * neuro pokes at php things with sticks
<neuro> it's like a love-hate relationship
<neuro> i know it's evil, but it's the easiest thing i know to use to lash websites together
<neuro> since i'm not actually a dev by trade
<diddledan> neuro: use a cms :-p
<neuro> na
<neuro> too much hassle
<neuro> it's a simple site, just list a bunch of software, give some info about it, and do some download links
<neuro> i'd spend weeks trying to get wp or similar to do the same thing
<neuro> and don't get me started on drupal
<diddledan> well yeah, drupal is a pig
<neuro> yup
<neuro> we use it at $work
<diddledan> wordpress however I lurve
<directhex> <3 wordpress
<neuro> i like it too, i use it for my blog (which i put a lovely new theme on a cpl weeks ago) but it's too heavy for this thing i'm doing just now
<zmoylan-pi> and it NEVER has security problems... :-P
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: it has known, patched security problems. how many security issues are there in $obscure or "homegrown CMS?
<directhex> $]
<directhex> dsfiouphagdefr[80o9hygt5r4ae8uyp9[
<diddledan> kittenattack?
<m6lpi> Or lack of coffee
<diddledan> or maybe just giving up on life?
<directhex> all of the above!
<diddledan> a programmer's horror movie character? https://instagram.com/p/6nopsvj2Vg/
<zmoylan-pi> this goes out to those that want to save a few bob on electrician... :-) http://img.pr0gramm.com/2014/06/17/8eacd433a8e24de5.jpg
<diddledan> lol @ the a-v alert
<diddledan> (350amp)
<zmoylan-pi> installed by rick o'shea :-)
<neuro> my watch wants me to stand up
<diddledan> your watch is fruity?
<neuro> tis
<shauno> heh, that always makes me chuckle too.  especially when it celebrates that I took enough smoke breaks
<neuro> :)
<diddledan> I like that supposedly in apple board meetings suddenly everyone stands up
<neuro> at different times
<neuro> in order
<neuro> like a slow, unfun mexican wave
<daftykins> lots of "aaaaaaah" going on
<zmoylan-pi> what if someone fly in from different time zone? :-)
<neuro> i don't mind it so much, but you'd think that when going 70mph, it wouldn't hassle you
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: they're still at the airport setting the time
<neuro> "oh thanks, watch, let me just stand up INSIDE MY CAR WHILE I'M DRIVING IT"
<neuro> daftykins: time is set from the phone, which is set from the network
<zmoylan-pi> honestly officer, i had to stand on my seat with head out sun roof and foot on steering wheel...
<neuro> BECAUSE WATCH
<daftykins> i'm joking :)
<neuro> i know
<neuro> it was a crap joke ;)
<daftykins> what if the phone is off to comply with flight regs!
<zmoylan-pi> what if they're a clueless user who set phone up wrong?
<daftykins> which is pretty likely
<shauno> you turn the phone on when you land, it finds a network and bam.  it's not complex :p
<neuro> daftykins: interesting point, i assume there's a quartz timer inside to keep time while offnet
<neuro> zmoylan-pi: there's not much to go wrong
<neuro> the watch talks to the phone over bluetooth-le
 * zmoylan-pi suspects neuro hasn't worked tech support...
<shauno> apple's seems to use wifi too, which surprised me
<neuro> it gets time from (as i understand it) NTP, cellular and GPS/GLONASS time sync
<neuro> zmoylan-pi: wut? try me
<zmoylan-pi> my printer isn't printing... what's wrong neuro?
<diddledan> I recall someone moaning that they said in the keynote that it will be accurate to within x of a second - the person didn't seem to grok that they were stating a maximum offset from canonical time rather than drift
<neuro> check paper
<neuro> check cables
<neuro> check toner/carts
<neuro> check network
<neuro> check drivers
<neuro> check for paper jam
<neuro> etc etc
<zmoylan-pi> you forgot to check if they had printer in first place :-)
<neuro> [swear]
<daftykins> please say that has never happened?
<zmoylan-pi> or electricity. or a computer...
<zmoylan-pi> it has
<neuro> "my printer" implies LYING
<zmoylan-pi> they assumed buying a computer with word processing software was enough to do printing
<neuro> in fairness, i've never worked public facing first line
<shauno> why else would it have a print button?
<zmoylan-pi> so you've never worked full stupidity tech suppoty :-)
<neuro> i've never been that hard up / desperate / lunatic
<zmoylan-pi> the time it took best part of an hour to work out what size floppies the customer wanted to order...
<daftykins> isn't private support just the same, only with suited/dressed folk who get angry for you "making them feel stupid" ?
 * neuro sticks the Total Recall soundtrack on, because GOLDSMITH
<neuro> daftykins: there are less variables involved
<neuro> in theory, you've deployed the infra, so there's only so many different configs to manage, and thus you know (to an extent) what the caller has on their desk
<shauno> my strangest support call is still the australian who didn't mention the fire until we asked him
<zmoylan-pi> the people who type in wrong passwords as they don't like the ones they've been given and then wonder why they can't log in
<zmoylan-pi> the time i was asked to help a customer install a modem and wasn't told until 15 minutes in that the customer was blind...
<neuro> my favourite was a typing pool secretary whose keyboard we had to replace 3 times
<shauno> I mean, we took his name, number, company name, serial number, contract number.  and then asked him what the issue was.  it was on fire.
<neuro> because she typed so fast and with such ferocity that they keys lost their labels
<neuro> she could type just fine, but any time she was off, the temp replacing her couldn't handle the near-blank keyboard
<neuro> and this was way before the hacker keyboard came out ;)
<daftykins> shauno: O_O what was 'it' ?
<shauno> a rather large ups
<neuro> ouch
<zmoylan-pi> a mate who had to drive around to a video shop as he couldn't get the staff member to type 2 lines 1) cd \video 2) video after an hour of instructions over the phone
<shauno> (one rack tall and 8 racks wide)
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> that must be a fun flame
<zmoylan-pi> the same person who had to have a cleaner restrain a manager who kept picking up the phone when we wanted him to let the modem pick up the line
<diddledan> you'd think clearing the building would be more important than claiming the repair while it's still burning
<neuro> if it wasn't in a room with fire suppression, then that's just sheer mentalness
<shauno> yeah.  the fire dept was our recommendation too
<zmoylan-pi> the pizza shop who rang computer tech support as they couldn't find the cheese in the stock room
<neuro> why am i now thinking of Moss from The IT Crowd, emailing the fire brigade about a fire in the office
<zmoylan-pi> an actual out of cheese error :-)
<neuro> "not much call for it round here"
<neuro> </monty>
<neuro> I'm liking this IRC client so far
<neuro> Textual, in case anyone's wondering
<diddledan> aha
<diddledan> yeah that's not bad
<neuro> 4 quid off the app store
<shauno> lol, one of us, one of us!
<neuro> hehe
<neuro> remember, i'm the guy who repeatedly badmouths ubuntu desktop in here ;)
<diddledan> just out of curiosity, how many of the regulars in here are actually driving an ubuntu desktop? :-p
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<neuro> i'm going to say it's a skewed sample
<zmoylan-pi> xubuntu mind
<neuro> well at least you don't have unity ;)
<zmoylan-pi> and a raspian sitting in kitchen for irc, rss
<diddledan> I mean, we've got me and daftykins on windas, shauno and neuro on os x
<diddledan> me also on os x when I feel like a change
<daftykins> though to add fun to the mix i'm typing from irssi on an ubuntu server VM 8)
<zmoylan-pi> plus an olpc, 1 hp netbook also running xubuntu in 1gb of ram plus new laptop still win8.1 but will be dual booting linux or wiped 100% for linux depending on how it annoys me
<diddledan> daftykins: that doesn't count :-p
<neuro> don't get me wrong, i'm doing the same (irssi on vm, ssh proxy from mac to vm)
<zmoylan-pi> i also have 2 mac minis but they haven't been turned on in 3-4 years
 * neuro counts ...
<neuro> 5 macs and 2 windows
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: sounds safest ;)
<neuro> 2 unboxed pis in the house and a play pi sitting in the office
<neuro> sitting next to the two macs on my desk
<zmoylan-pi> and then for mobile i have 1 android tablet, 1 iphone 3g, 1 android qwerty phone, 2 symbian qwerty phones, 1 nokia feature phone and 1 samsung feature phone.
<shauno> and a paaartridge ..
<zmoylan-pi> whoops, plus 2 spare qwerty feature phones
<neuro> i find it easier just to do this: http://neuro.me.uk/tech/
<zmoylan-pi> oh and an ancient shipped with donut android phone
<neuro> not quite up to date, but close enough
<zmoylan-pi> and a new pi 2 i haven't set up yet
<zmoylan-pi> and if you gave me a few days notice i could probably build a few pcs from parts lying around :-)
<neuro> "build" a pc ... i haven't done that in yeeeeears
<neuro> OK, WHO'S RUNNING WINDOWS 10?!?
<diddledan> neuro: I like that nice high-res header image
<daftykins> why ever not? :)
<neuro> diddledan: nice theme, innit?
 * daftykins has two machines with 10 and has infected a friend too
<shauno> I tried, but I still can't get my memory chips working properly
<neuro> sorry, reason i blurted that out is that i'm log watching
<zmoylan-pi> you know how it is, you had a symbian phone, it would suggest an update, the pc you had wouldn't do it so you'd build a new one to update software and the longest part was still updating the nokia software... :-)
<diddledan> oops
<neuro> [IP REDACTED] - - [20/Aug/2015:22:14:32 +0000] "GET /tech/ HTTP/1.1" 200 10059 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:42.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/42.0"
<diddledan> yeah that'll be me
<neuro> tee hee
<neuro> busted
<neuro> ... even though you admitted to it 6 minutes ago
<neuro> how you finding it?
<neuro> win10 that is
<neuro> i installed it on a VM then went off work and haven't played with it yet
<daftykins> it's lovely, lighter than even 7 was
<neuro> cool
<neuro> we're probably going to deploy it at work for all the non-mac people (obv)
<diddledan> I don't mind it though I'm annoyed that I hit an api limitation that I moaned to daftykins about the other day - path length is restricted to 260 chars
<neuro> win7ent just now
<daftykins> you do have to disable a lot as it comes out of the box, for example it shares windows updates to the internet if you don't change it
<neuro> yeah, i spotted that one
<neuro> OFF!
<daftykins> i like LAN only though, i've wanted that for years
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be fun in a few months when other folk see their data caps blown wide open
<daftykins> only one box downloading would be neat
<neuro> even os x doesn't do that
<shauno> you mean like squid-deb-proxy?
<daftykins> that'll only happen for people that haven't set their connections as being metered
<neuro> you need to spend the 13 quid for os x server to get that functionality
<daftykins> so, newbies
<neuro> i don't believe in metered connections any more
<zmoylan-pi> i used to download all the mac updates to one mac mini and then burn them to dvd for my brother out in the boonies
<daftykins> :D
<neuro> unlimited sky vdsl, unlimited bt vdsl and unlimited 3 3G/4G
<neuro> and my 3 tariff is the old one plan that lets you tether unlimited too
<daftykins> amusingly Guernsey broadband has no FUP but Jersey does
<neuro> they'll take my sim out of my cold dead fingers
 * daftykins makes a rude gesture towards the coast of Jersey
<neuro> jersey loves you too
<daftykins> haha grandfathered in eh
<neuro> indeed
<neuro> luckily i've stopped getting subsidised handsets, so if/when i bump my iphone up, tariff won't change
<neuro> i have a feeling if i said "hey, 3, can i get a lovely iphone from you guys?" they'd change my plan to the non-unlimited tethering thingy
<neuro> so, forget that
<neuro> also, it's only 15 quid a month
<neuro> FIFTEEN QUID!
<daftykins> daym
<daftykins> we don't have you telcos down here :)
<daftykins> phones are retail unlocked
<neuro> the only duff bit is that my house is like a faraday cage, so the signal is awful on all networks, but i have one of those dinky home signal thingies
<neuro> oh here's a fun fact i found out when shopping for an unlocked iphone
<neuro> if you buy an iphone off-network from carphone warehouse, it locks itself to the network of the first sim you boot it up with
<neuro> you can only get proper unlocked iphones direct from the mothership
<neuro> err, apple
<diddledan> HAH, I've still got one of those logitech quickcam thingies around here, too
<diddledan> ref: http://neuro.me.uk/pics/2004/01/09_dsltech/?01/DSC01758.JPG
<neuro> ooh me too, somewhere
<neuro> oh right lol
<diddledan> :-p
<neuro> those pics are aaaaaaaaaaancient
<neuro> that awful 10/100 switch has been replaced by an hp 16 port gig thing
<neuro> in fact ...
<neuro> hmmm ...
<daftykins> ubuntu 14.04 with no traceroute installed as default, wat
<neuro> wat?
<neuro> no comprendo
<diddledan> awesome, I've got one of those froggy adsl modems, too: http://neuro.me.uk/pics/2002/05/study.rewire/?01/DCP_0013.JPG
<daftykins> (desktop VM)
<neuro> wat? that's mental
<neuro> mtr should be installed tho
<daftykins> ah yes 'tis
<daftykins> haha those were the first things given out for the local ADSL when it launched
<neuro> yup, which is probably why i have a photo of one
<daftykins> i remember XP machines connected with that getting hit by msblast within seconds of connecting, before XP SP whatever added firewalls as default
<neuro> yeah, mine was hooked up to a smoothwal
<neuro> s/wal/wall/
<daftykins> same!
<daftykins> mgmt.o :)
<neuro> ah, good old smoothwall (bleh)
<daftykins> once it hit v3 that firmware no longer worked :(
<neuro> although if you still had ADSLv1 when sw3 came out ...
<daftykins> ooh those SFF compaqs you have down there on the left, i had a couple of those
<neuro> "have"
<neuro> do you see how old those photos are?
<neuro> those suckers were WEEEd a long time ago
<diddledan> I bet they didn't work after you weed on them
<daftykins> well, i consider 'have' as in 'have in the picture' but i suppose we could jump all over minor things
<daftykins> perhaps we could later discuss some spelling and grammar to go full aspie whilst we're at it? :)
<diddledan> while**
<diddledan> whilst is archaic
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> is it :(
<daftykins> maybe us rock dwellers are :(
<diddledan> there is technically no difference between meanings despite what people seem to think :-p
 * neuro is trying to find more recent pics ;)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> i was chatting to a mate about what really happens when we recycle CRTs
<daftykins> he found an article about a bloke up Manchester way that invented a process to extract the lead from the glass
<neuro> aha
<neuro> PICS LOCATED!
<neuro> waiting ... waiting ...
<neuro> 2.6GB of swap in use does not help things, even with a 7200rpm drive
<daftykins> this is when you still have all the exact same content except those two compaqs ;)
<neuro> http://wpa.io/~neuro/IMG_0825.jpg <- that stack on the left (before 16 port switch bought)
<neuro> http://wpa.io/~neuro/IMG_0736.jpg <- and the whole desk
<neuro> i see my awesome tech has rendered you all speechless
<neuro> ;)
<daftykins> the... the clutter ;_;
<neuro> yeah, well ... :D
<neuro> i've been in this house for nearly 15 yrs
<neuro> plenty of time to gunk up my office
<shauno> why does that kinda remind me of the mid-90s
<neuro> lol
<neuro> i'm overdue to gut this place out and rewire to be honest
<neuro> that desk fan is dead, i want to gut out the cabling, i want to replace the desk ...
<shauno> I like the airduster.  god loves an optimist
<neuro> lol
<neuro> i want a new monitor for the pc too
<neuro> 22" 1080p sucks
<neuro> also it's a samsung, and i've gone right off samsung kit
<shauno> I think mine's 1024x768 still.  or it's 1280xsummat and I'm driving it at 1024
<neuro> i don't even know what this apple 27" thing is ...
<neuro> oh
<neuro> 2560 x 1440
<neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3upcgkmufsk1p77/Screenshot%202015-08-20%2023.51.26.png?dl=0
<neuro> :)
<neuro> MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF STARS
<daftykins> neuro: how have you found those netgear NASs vs. the Synology?
<neuro> i use the synology just for iscsi -> esxi
<daftykins> that looks like one of the dell inspiron 3000 series i'd bought a pair of for a client too
<daftykins> she managed to lose one o0
<neuro> i've got another readynas (a 304) upstairs as i ran out of room
<neuro> daftykins: it's a vostro 3550
<daftykins> that's the one, not inspiron
<daftykins> a clients employee turfed some wine over one once
<daftykins> that was fun
<neuro> wheee
<neuro> a scotlugger spilt a pint of beer over my latitude x300 years ago
<neuro> stuck it out for a while with an external keyb
<daftykins> ooh-err, did you kill him where he stood?
<neuro> eventually phoned up dell saying "errr, keyb fail"
<neuro> they replaced it the next day
<neuro> i didn't say anything about the beer
<neuro> i would have killed him, but a) public place (literally, since it was a pub) and b) his face was like "ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh my god"
<neuro> loved that laptop
<neuro> probably the last thing i ran full fat ubuntu on
<neuro> i have a sudden craving for a dymo omega embossing label maker
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i had to extract a label from a dymo's roller the other day, someone thinks a small child has been getting into the office :(
<daftykins> a possible first of many i suspect
<neuro> people at home = normal and careful
<neuro> people at work = crazy and destructive
<daftykins> :D amusingly this is the combo of the two, a guy who works from home whose young son is getting to the age of terrorising things
<neuro> i've lost count the amount of times i've moaned about our main meeting room TV getting left on instead of being put into standby
<daftykins> likes walking up to it and pressing the button that makes a single label wind out apparently
<neuro> nice
<daftykins> mmm i don't like waste like that
<daftykins> heh friend in Texas just asked me to look up service status for the broadband in her area
<daftykins> you need to log in via a smartphone app or the website, madness
<neuro> stupid sky
<daftykins> o0
<neuro> also stupid pfsense, didn't failover to BT properly for some reason
<daftykins> ah a friend was just helping me get a pfsense VM going to test routing some traffic via a VPN
<daftykins> (for an xbox, so no client :D )
<neuro> eeshk
<neuro> the shenanigans i had to go through to get open NAT on my xbox one ...
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> UPnP \o/
<neuro> shyeah right
<neuro> and monkeys might fly out of my butt
<daftykins> i figure you mean it was fun because of your setup
<daftykins> always been fine here with UPnP on consumer routers
<daftykins> 360, One... just dandy
<neuro> yeah, pfsense shenanigans
<neuro> ended up being an outbound NAT rule that was needed
<daftykins> hrmm yep i get the odd drop pinging google UK and an IP at my ISP if i'm downloading at high speed
<neuro> which was weird, because it was fine for a while (i got my xbox one on day one) but in november i was checking it and nat wasn't open any more
<daftykins> hrmm
<neuro> it is now though
<daftykins> i quite enjoy the xbox streaming to win10
<neuro> haven't tried it yet
<neuro> my boss has
<daftykins> they just enabled the 1080p/60 option too
<neuro> my main concern is that remotely switching on the xbox will switch everything else on too
<daftykins> got an AVR?
<neuro> i have it configured to switch on my sky box and tv when it switches on
<neuro> no
<daftykins> ah
<neuro> thought about it in the xbox 360 days
<daftykins> i don't use the instan on mode, so pop down to fire it up
<neuro> when i was using sky go a lot
<neuro> apparently hdcp doesn't pass through AVRs
<neuro> so i dinged that idea
<daftykins> sure it does
<neuro> and i have my sky hd box connected to the xbox one, so more hdcp involved
<daftykins> nothing would work if it didn't
<neuro> it didn't when i was looking
<neuro> games generally don't need hdcp
<neuro> but protected video wants it
<daftykins> i wouldn't even consider it for games
<neuro> e.g. sky go
<neuro> we're talking about the same hdcp, right?
<daftykins> the DRM component hopefully
<neuro> ja
<neuro> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP
<daftykins> which use case though? because for an AVR to not allow say, a bluray player to function would be a pretty big fail
<neuro> i asked hauppauge about theirs and they said it didn't pass through hdcp
<neuro> dude
<neuro> i thought you meant av recorder
<neuro> not receiver
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> as in like a VCR?
<neuro> no like those game recordy things that you hook up to a pc or mac to record gaming stuff
<neuro> i DO have an AVR, but it's an old one (~2007), so no HDMI
<neuro> i use an HDMI switch with optical ports
<neuro> although i only use it to switch from sky/xbox one to mac
<neuro> for some plex goodness
<neuro> ah
<neuro> http://www.tvcables.co.uk/images/items/thor-hdc100-hdmi-switch.jpg
<neuro> that's the bunny
<neuro> connected to this bad boy
<neuro> http://assets.zensoft.net/neuro.me.uk/tech/Sony_STR-K880.jpg
<neuro> ooh i have some wp updates
<neuro> "An updated version of WordPress is available."
<neuro> OF COURSE IT IS
<daftykins> hmm not very lounge design friendly :D
<neuro> sits in the corner with some obsolete tech on top
<neuro> sony vcr and pioneer dvd player
<neuro> neither have been turned on in years
<neuro> $ svn switch http://core.svn.wordpress.org/tags/4.3.0 ... tee hee
<neuro> d'oh, no .0
<neuro> VERY old pic: https://www.flickr.com/photos/neuro/2384734720
<daftykins> crikey
<zmoylan-pi> wow just a few weeks back i took vcr and dvd player for recycling
<zmoylan-pi> haven't had a tv since 2008 :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-21
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: just think of all the Pis you could run
<neuro> i still haven't found a decent use case for a pi
<neuro> at least not in the house
<zmoylan-pi> i use one in house for irc and rss. means i have only one location for rss and persistence in irc.
<zmoylan-pi> plan for pi 2 is to put it in small keyboard and make it a small nc100/z88 style laptop
<maps> morning
<knightwise> mornin maps
<maps> morn:) graceland time for me
<maps> yay
<maps> anyone else watch gracelnd?
<maps> graceland
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<davmor2> My child arrived just the other day, came to the world in the usual way, there were planes to catch, bills to pay, he learnt to walk when I was away......
<davmor2> That's right people Ugly kid Joe Cat's in the Cradle is song stuck in my head this morning
<MooDoo> davmor2: silver spoon in your mouth
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<knightwise> morning peeps
<bigcalm> I think one of the disks in my 2nd RAID1 array may be in trouble. Looking to replace it, Seagate or Western Digital?
<knightwise> WD
<bigcalm> Looking at http://paste.ubuntu.com/12139875/ it looks like /dev/sdd has gone away
<bigcalm> If I just replace the drive, will the array rebuild itself?
<bigcalm> Went for a straight replacement. Seagate Barracuda 2TB drive
<shauno> davmor2: there should be laws.
<neuro> seagate? bwahahahahahahaha
<davmor2> shauno: What?
<shauno> malicious injection of earworms :(
<davmor2> shauno: that's what morning head songs are, it's the earworm of the day, the one that plays in your head when everything is quiet
<davmor2> shauno: like stiltskin inside, prodigy firestarter, firm starttrekkin etc etc
<davmor2> too many t's there but you get the point
<shauno> do they really need to infect others though?
 * zmoylan-pi heard about the guys arrested for running website discussing popcorn and all i can hear is the song... :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjxNnqTcHhg
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p747PrxmZJ4 is pretty impressive
<shauno> popcorn's my ringtone :)
<zmoylan-pi> tis a catchy tune
<davmor2> shauno: now you don't mind that and that is in my morning head song list :P
<shauno> either immunity or tolerance
<shauno> popey: that is clever.  starts off "hah", but then .. yeah.  a lot of thought/work in that.  clever
<popey> there's a behind the scenes video too
<popey> worth watching
<shauno> zmoylan-pi: okay, I have a bone to pick with you :)
<shauno> nokia 6303.  plugged my headphones into it, makes some clicking noises, then shows 'accessory not supported' on the display
 * bigcalm attempts to fix the broken /etc/apt/trusted.gpg
<popey> NUKE FROM ORBIT
<popey> only way to be sure
<bashrc> is trusted.gpg untrusted?
<bigcalm> 4 weeks to the RAT
<bigcalm> This makes no flippin' sense to me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12141674/
<bigcalm> What is it using to regenerate trustdb.gpg?
<shauno> odd, I don't have these files
<shauno> on mine, appears to be the contents of /usr/share/keyrings from package ubuntu-keyring
<bigcalm> Ubuntu 12.04
<shauno> infact, on mine, /etc/apt/trusted.gpg and /usr/share/keyrings/ubuntu-archive-keyring.gpg match md5
<shauno> I'm on the 14.whatever lts
<shauno> apt-key's a shell script, pop it open and look for MASTER_KEYRING :)
<bigcalm> Removing a couple of keys from /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d meant that apt-key was usable again
<zmoylan-pi> i dunno shauno, is it looking for a 4 pole audio jack?
<shauno> this is 4-pole, it's the headphones from my phone
<zmoylan-pi> try a different headset?
<shauno> same, got some sony headphones.  but they're also 4-pole because they have a stop button inline
<zmoylan-pi> that is odd. new device you just picked up?
<shauno> nah, couple of phones we have at work for backup
<shauno> just noticed it has fm radio, but it wants headphones for an antenna, and refuses every pair I can find
<zmoylan-pi> someone at work using it as a hammer? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i do know other people have a gift for breaking every known headphone jack known to human kind.
<shauno> I dunno, they see very, very light usage.  we have two, and the most they ever see is we alternate them between the same charger
<zmoylan-pi> does sounds like the headphone jack has been kyboshed
<shauno> hm.  just tried the other phone, but it looks like it crashed
<shauno> I plugged the headphones in and the screen just went white
<zmoylan-pi> what have you done to those poor devices?? :-)
<shauno> nothing!  they get ignored for 5 years then replaced
<zmoylan-pi> i've had nokias ignored and used as door stops for 5 years and they still work fine
<bigcalm> popey: having sorted out the corrupt gpg key database, I've been able to do a do-release-upgrade. When did I start this process?
<popey> no idea
<bigcalm> Far too long ago
<bigcalm> Why would a hosting company want to block a server from connecting to port 11371 on a key server?
<bigcalm> I don't understand the security implications
<popey> maybe they block all, and only open specific ports when asked
<bigcalm> Maybe. It's terribly irritating
<zmoylan-pi> someone else with headset problem with 6303.  update firmware or get serviced... http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/mobiledevices/forum/mdasha/nokia-6303-classic-earphones-problem/5381054b-ffa7-402d-bf4b-7d356837f10c
<diddledan> \o/ http://stackoverflow.com/10m
<neuro> bigcalm: what hosting company?
<diddledan> so googley code is supposed to be read-only from the 25th. why is googley chromium still using it?!
<diddledan> </rant - I don't expect anyone to know>
<zmoylan-pi> read only code is hacker proof :-P
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> yey for the twits telling me about new tv programmes to steal
<diddledan> http://geekandsundry.com/fall-tv-superheroes-arrow-flash-supergirl-gotham-shield-heroes/
<diddledan> grr @ adverts, tho - I've already bought something and now I'm getting the site I bought off telling me to buy it
<diddledan> (on other sites)
 * zmoylan-pi remebers reading of an evil genius who set up a honey pot run from cd based system.  hackers would spend days trying to alter the config on the cd...
<diddledan> wait, did I say steal? I mean.. err.. "find"
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/aloria/status/634397089166979073
<diddledan> why is there a band named after a portable toilet?
<diddledan> (potty shed)
<zmoylan-pi> seems to have been a band called pooper...
<diddledan> http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/hilarious-google-suggestions/
<diddledan> potty shed ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portishead_%28band%29
<diddledan> nawww: https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/634853761341591552
<diddledan> http://www.onionstudios.com/videos/onion-explains-the-terrifying-growth-of-isis-3114
<diddledan> funny
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-22
<daftykins> diddledan: trying to do impressions of myrtti i see
<daftykins> :P
<diddledan> I have no idea where that's coming from
<diddledan> I've closed everything bar one client
<diddledan> it's definitely my network, tho
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> yep, it's got beef in it
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> just been playing some 'Dying Light' on the xbox one with a couple of pals
<daftykins> i'm typing from a xubuntu sony laptop with nice native resolution TTYs 8D
<daftykins> wouldn't help much if i wanted to open any links, but it looks nice
<diddledan> seriously, wtf is it?!
<diddledan> it doesn't reply to a version query
<diddledan> so I can't figure out what's driving the connection
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> packet sniff at your egress point?
<daftykins> why's it suddenly got a hostname instead of an IPv6
<diddledan> ip4 resolved quicker that time I guess
<daftykins> ah
<m0nkey_> i could inform myrtti that she's bouncing. but don't want to interrupt the hunnymoonsters
<diddledan> that's funny, because of my alter-ego the honeymonster
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> last i saw her clones were getting K-lined
<diddledan> ouch
<daftykins> so who knows what's going on there
<daftykins> he's here!
<daftykins> diddledan_: beep bloop
<daftykins> so much diddling so little time
<diddledan> right, I've restarted the only irc client running
<diddledan> this client shouldn't have been the problem tho 'cos it's configured to use a bnc
<daftykins> :)
<shauno> burn the witch?!
<diddledan> s/w/b/
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FdHq3WfJgs
<daftykins> diddledan: i think i am dead
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> also. the presentation about the jeep hack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OobLb1McxnI
<shauno> I don't think I can youtube while playing civ5.  it's surprisingly heavy on this laptop :(
<daftykins> no real desktop in casa von shauno?
<shauno> kinda
<shauno> I have two desktops.  one's an amiga, one's a ppc mac
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i don't know how you can tolerate laptop only
<shauno> well, it's not 'only', I have my amiga for gaming :)
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> and the mac does very little.  it's waiting for me to find somewhere that still sells cdrs
<daftykins> need to throw an OS on one?
<shauno> yeah.  trying to get amigaos4 on it
<daftykins> crikey
<shauno> osx is easy, I can install it from firewire.  but os4 is quite picky  (aka has very limited hardware support)
<shauno> (to which end, I picked up a firewire CF reader.  lovely)
<daftykins> coaster city then :)
<daftykins> didn't realise it was tough to find them nowadays
<daftykins> think i still have a 100 cake upstairs on the shelf
<shauno> well.  it's primarily laziness
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> that's the spirit
<shauno> well, I've had a very busy summer.  stuff like that is more winter stuff :)
<daftykins> very true
<daftykins> alright time to turn in for me, i can no longer brain at all
<shauno> :)
<daftykins> g'night folks \o have a good weekend if you manage to escape for a bit :>
<shauno> I'm waiting to take a quick trip into work, then I'll do the same
<diddledan> shauno: you mean you're going to work so you can have a nap?
<maps> morning
<knightwise> morning maps
<diddledan> morning maps knightwise
<diddledan> trying to figure out why my blurry disc drive isn't reading blurry discs
<diddledan> (I know I spelled that wrong. it was on a porpoise)
<diddledan> I've checked with a dvd that the drive is actually working in the general sense
<diddledan> but plop a blurry movie in and it pretends there be no disc there
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan_> m00
<diddledan_> it's the weekend, so should I be requesting that ya'll call me mandy?
<m6lpi> diddledan: set a cron job to chance username and nick
<m0nkey_> mornin
<Supermanintights> hey guys, i'm trying to install the nvdia gfx driver for the GTX 750ti, however I've developed a few issues, and upon my last restart, I'm currently staring at the Ubuntu splash screen for over 3 minutes, and nothing else is happening, I can't access the desktop now
<daftykins> Supermanintights: try booting with 'quiet splash' removed from the boot params to see what's up
<Supermanintights> let me google how to do that
<Supermanintights> I'm trying to edit it via nano using the root shell in recovery mode, but despite logging in as root it says "read only file system" so i can't get rid of quiet splash
<daftykins> ah sounds like you have bigger problems if your disk is mounted read only
<daftykins> can you boot a live session?
<daftykins> from flash drive or otherwise
<Supermanintights> yeah, one mo
<Supermanintights> ok I'm in
<popey> mounted read only is the normal default in recovery mode daftykins Supermanintights
<popey> you can just "mount -o remount,rw /" in recovery to get it into read/write mode
<Supermanintights> ah ok, so i should boot back into recovery mode?
<daftykins> oh silly me, didn't quite read the recovery mode bit :)
<daftykins> you don't need to make a permanent boot edit though, just a one time change by holding left shift at boot and editing it once
<Supermanintights> when I hold left shift I have ubuntu, advanced or system set up
<Supermanintights> if i go to advanced, i have a list of options - grub edit, fsck, clean etc.
<Supermanintights> i was going to the root shell prompt and entering stuff there, is that right?
<daftykins> well there shouldn't be any need to go that far, as a permanent edit of these boot parameters isn't needed
<daftykins> you just want to be able to edit them once in GRUB
<Supermanintights> i can't seem to get to a grub console, holding left shift (or right) takes me to the recovery mode select
<Supermanintights> i don't mind doing the permanent edit for now then changing it back later
<daftykins> hmm, try booting normally once more then see if you can get to a TTY with ctrl+alt+F1
<Supermanintights> i disabled the quiet splash (I just went ahead sorry), and it booted up to a window that says "the system is running in low graphics mode", "your screen, graphics card and input device settings could not be detected correctly.  you will need to configure these yourself"
<daftykins> sounds like the driver didn't go on / isn't one that supports that maxwell card
<daftykins> can you get to the TTY as above?
<Supermanintights> after pressing ok, these are the options i have: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2aZPrhkAnixHo5hI__b9unvIGanaWNCNfBJyrowNjBvkMEee7voXnt35pOeghlanP-lehSA1m4loyNF73cNcnoBt2w
<daftykins> exit to console login
<Supermanintights> done
<daftykins> should be at TTY1 now, there you can login and have a poke around. which nvidia driver was it you were installing?
<Supermanintights> it's got a flashing cursor at the moment, been like that for 45 seconds now
<Supermanintights> i can get to a TTY1, but it only lets me log in as root, not as the normal user account
<daftykins> try flicking between ctrl+alt+F1 and through to F6
<Supermanintights> nothing,i've restarted and will just go straight to a TTY
<Supermanintights> ok, I'm at TTY1
<Supermanintights> http://www.nvidia.co.uk/download/driverResults.aspx/87681/en-uk
<daftykins> so was it an nvidia website manual download? ah yes.
<daftykins> don't do that on ubuntu :)
<Supermanintights> ah, my bad, i did try following terminal last night but that completely bugged out on me
<daftykins> ok log in and try running "sudo nvidia-uninstall" i think it is, you can type "nvi" then hit tab to auto complete through to find it
<Supermanintights> i can only log in as root, the normal account won't work for some reason
<daftykins> but root doesn't have a password
<Supermanintights> ok, one sec, thanks daftykins - appreciate your help
<Supermanintights> i set one earlie
<daftykins> oh dear.
<Supermanintights> just in case
<daftykins> so you're breaking the whole design of ubuntu :<
<Supermanintights> i only did it as i couldn't log in using a TTY at all, and I was getting frustrated
<daftykins> sounds like there are bigger issues with your install
<daftykins> was it a fresh one just recently?
<Supermanintights> hmm, it's the 14.04.03 LTS, it was just a base install
<Supermanintights> yes, it's a brand new pc, only built it two days ago
<daftykins> didn't have to do anything special to boot the installer i take it?
<daftykins> earlier versions, nouveau didn't work with the maxwell cards so people had to append 'nomodeset' to the boot params
<Supermanintights> nope, i just put it on a usb, and it installed fine
<daftykins> mmm must be the newer nouveau in .3
<Supermanintights> I've had a few issues - not recognising sound device, but in terms of installing etc. it's fine
<Supermanintights> should i do a fresh install again?
<daftykins> well it's behaving kinda quirky - and since you've probably not done much to that install yet, it's probably worth starting again
<SuperEngineer> hmmm, pardon me butting here but, Supermanintights - you sure all those hardware bits you stuffed in your pooter work ok & work ok together?
<daftykins> that's fair, but i'm sure it's just a case of installing the manual nvidia download crapping out
<Supermanintights> SuperEngineer, it all said compatible and no problems on PCPartpicker, I believe I've set it all up properly (first time building a PC)
<Supermanintights> happy to provide a link if that helps (and once again, I really do appreciate the help)
<daftykins> Supermanintights: do a clean install and try using this PPA to get the latest nvidia drivers - http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/08/ubuntu-nvidia-graphics-drivers-ppa-is-ready-for-action
<daftykins> it's a proper new official Ubuntu one
<SuperEngineer> if it helps - the latest nVidia driver and the latest kernel update didnot work too well together for me - gave a simoilar prob... but a fresh install wouldn't be using that driver?
<Supermanintights> will it cover my gfx card? I tried do do something using the terminal on the frst night and it ended up kicking me out completely and requiring a fresh install.
<Supermanintights> I'm going to reinstall now, won't take too long to do
<SuperEngineer> good luck
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: which one is the latest driver for you?
 * SuperEngineer checks
<daftykins> seems nvidia-346 is still the newest without adding any PPAs, for 14.04.3
<SuperEngineer> Lastest nVidia driver showing is 346.82 [p.s. also using 14.04.3 here]
<SuperEngineer> I've reverted to Nouveau for now [until I work out whatr the problem is]
<daftykins> i've heard of a lot of kernel problems of late
<SuperEngineer> ditto
<daftykins> people getting a new one install, something breaks so they have to go back one
<daftykins> very disappointing
<SuperEngineer> =!
<SuperEngineer> whoops... +1
<SuperEngineer> [304.125 might still be worth a try -maybe I'll try it when I'm not "doing anything" ;)
<daftykins> :)
<Supermanintights> right, done a reinstall, just going to try that ppa that daftykins gave me. wish me luck
 * SuperEngineer bangs chest to stop palpitations caused by the excitement  ;)
<SuperEngineer> oh come on, Supermanintights, I can't take this chest pain much more... .tell us the result!
<Supermanintights> it's downloading! apparently. my terrible internet means we have to wait a few more minutes to see what happens
<Supermanintights> in a film or tv show, they'd be showing a thumb twiddling montage
<SuperEngineer> ok... I'll go get some morphine for now.
<SuperEngineer> :)
<Supermanintights> :)
 * SuperEngineer imagine what a thumb twiddling a montage actually looks like
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> "show me those fingers"
<SuperEngineer> :D
<Supermanintights> it's installing, just did something with depmod, this looks much more promising than my previous attempts
<Supermanintights> I think it's done, is there a way to test it?
<SuperEngineer> errrmmmm... reboot!
<daftykins> reboot first
 * Supermanintights reboots
<Supermanintights> well it booted, which is better than the last time
<SuperEngineer> [those tights are slowing him down I guess]
<Supermanintights> i think we did it reddit (irc)
<SuperEngineer> own up Supermanintights - what colour are your tights
<daftykins> XD
<Supermanintights> blue, obviously
<SuperEngineer> yeeeeeew
<Supermanintights> best colour for tights!
<SuperEngineer> what colour are they when viewed via your wonderful new working system?
<Supermanintights> fluorescent pink
<SuperEngineer> oh... my... gaawwwdddd.... it gets worse
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<Supermanintights> seeing as you're all in a good mood (now we're talking tights), who fancies helping me with a sound issue, or the fact that I appear to have no output sound devices or anything
<daftykins> no clue on that one, but given as you installed so swiftly i suspect you have some updates to do
<daftykins> so open a terminal and run a "sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade"
 * SuperEngineer hunts for comment re "are uyou sure all your components work together" ;)
<daftykins> might be so new a build it's not quite Linux friendly yet
<daftykins> Supermanintights: wouldn't hurt showing us your parts list
<Supermanintights> haha, I have no idea if I have done it correctly, I'm just going with it
<Supermanintights> ok, one mo
<SuperEngineer> rule 1... persevere ;)
<SuperEngineer> rule 2...  swear a lot
<SuperEngineer> rule 3... pass wind & try again
<daftykins> rule 4... don't type rule 2
<daftykins> :>
<SuperEngineer> :D
<daftykins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/6296594
<daftykins> ah the dampness cometh
<SuperEngineer> daftykins, glad you put the link before the comment!
 * SuperEngineer slaps wrist
<daftykins> have you taken over from diddledan? :)
<Supermanintights> http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/vjNxMp
<daftykins> ooh my, skylake build
<Supermanintights> however the cpu cooler and power supply changed due to not being available, will that matter?
<Supermanintights> I can find the new model numbers if so
<SuperEngineer> I can see your problem now... you built a PC and not a pooter!  ;)
<Supermanintights> haha
<Supermanintights> granted, this isn't mine, this is my friend who is computer retarded and i'm responsible for helping him, so I'm having to patiently explain everything to him as i fix/set things up
<daftykins> nah , i suspect the chip on the motherboard for the onboard sound is just very new
<Supermanintights> I did say that to him that it might be too new to be recognised
<daftykins> Supermanintights: that's a fate worse than death right there
<daftykins> yeah 14.04 might not be the best for a machine of that newness
<Supermanintights> he doesn't understand my pain
<Supermanintights> what should I do then? latest ubuntu?
<daftykins> but then you've probably got the vivid HWE, do you have a 3.19 kernel when you run "uname -r" ?
<Supermanintights> I just went with this as it was LTS
<daftykins> yeah LTS is usually a good call
<Supermanintights> 3.19.0-26-generic
<daftykins> i take it we're talking standard speakers attached to the onboard audio, not speakers in an HDMI attached display?
<Supermanintights> erm, right now nothing, but i have some headphones (usb, speaker and mic plugs)
<daftykins> as in the front case ports?
<Supermanintights> but even if plugged in, the list of devices in the sound options are empty
<Supermanintights> yeah
<Supermanintights> he is getting speakers, but right now he needs to wait til next pay day, so this will (hopefully) do for now
<daftykins> i suspect it might be worth trying a newer mainline kernel
<daftykins> i'm just on the asus page working out the hardware
<daftykins> https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z170-A/specifications/
<daftykins> hrmm Realtek ALC892
<SuperEngineer> has this pc not got a normal headphone socket you could at least try?
<daftykins> what does "aplay -l" and "aplay -L" show from the terminal? use http://paste.ubuntu.com to share it with us
<Supermanintights> I'll be honest, while I am somewhat familiar with linux (enough to help a noob get started, and use the terminal etc.) I'm not that informed on kernels and updating it
<SuperEngineer> [simple option, coz I'm simple] ;)
<Supermanintights> it's got a headphone socket on the front SuperEngineer - but if I plug my earphones in, there's still no sound devices
<SuperEngineer> Supermanintights, oh buhgah!
<Supermanintights> paste.ubuntu.com/12151931
<Supermanintights> paste.ubuntu.com/12151934
<daftykins> yeah picking up only the nvidia HDMI audio support
<Supermanintights> so if he used the hdmi instead of vga, he'd have sound?
<daftykins> nah a monitor would have to have speakers built in
<daftykins> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/11/fix-hda-intel-realtek-alc887-no-sound.html
<daftykins> make a backup of the file this guide suggests to edit, then try it out
<Supermanintights> this monitor has speakers built inside it (apparently), and it does have a headphone connector
<Supermanintights> ok, one mo
<daftykins> ah, you definitely shouldn't be using a horrible analog connection such as VGA in 2015 on a modern machine likethat
<Supermanintights> well, I said to use vga because I was concerned about the HDMI overscan
<Supermanintights> I have windows on my main for adobe reasons, and I'm sick of hdmi overscan, so i said VGA for now
<daftykins> when the picture goes off the sides?
<daftykins> that shouldn't happen with most screens
<daftykins> easily configurable in nvidia settings both on Windows and Linux even if it does :)
<Supermanintights> fair enough, he's gone to obtain a hdmi cable so that should be resolved in a few minutes.  I'm just following this guide now.
<SuperEngineer> Supermanintights, for what it's worth [& not to annoy you] using 14.04.3 I have an nVidia GTX outputting to 3 screens [DVI, HDMI *&* VGA sockets all in use] - sound works through the nVidia or the headphone socket.  This is not a boast, it is just to say that this with 14.04 [.1, ,2 & .3 all did it ok]
<daftykins> that on vivid's 3.19 kernel, SuperEngineer ?
<Supermanintights> no no, that's fine.  I just said VGA from personal experience and just while we were setting it up.  Is it easy to use 3 screens? I always had issues when doing 3 screens, would only ever send to 2 screens at most
<SuperEngineer> normal kernel release,  normal updates, never changed it myself [except to revert *temporarily* when nVidia & kernel argued]
<SuperEngineer> daftykins, ^
<Supermanintights> guys, quick side track - I just plugged in the hdmi cable, and it says "no cable connected" on screen.  Is a reboot normally necessary for those kind of changes?
<daftykins> yes
<daftykins> remove VGA, add HDMI - reboot
<Supermanintights> damn.  OK, will replug in vga to finish what i was doing then will reboot
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: it's just that if you installed 14.04 when it was new, it can become 14.04.3 with the 3.13 kernel - whilst a freshly installed 14.04.3 would have the vivid HWE so 3.19
<SuperEngineer> daftykins, ah!.. I see - yup 14.04 *progressive* to 14.04.3 system here
<Supermanintights> I've tried plugging the hdmi cable in to both the mobo and the graphics card, restarting both times and it still won't load anything
<Supermanintights> any ideas?
<SuperEngineer> as in, progressed to .3 via normal updates to orginal 14.04
<SuperEngineer> Is the cable ok?
<Supermanintights> he says so, it looks pretty decent - not a shitty quality one, and it's worked in plenty of other devices before
<Supermanintights> i can try from my laptop if needed, but i'm happy to take his word for it
<daftykins> well it has to be just the HDMI port on the graphics card obviously :>
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... that seems proof enough if not recent damage
<daftykins> doesn't hurt to test
<daftykins> you've tried a cold boot i take it?
<Supermanintights> what's a cold boot?
<SuperEngineer> daftykins, why would putting the cable in a refrigerated shoe work?  ;)
<daftykins> powering up from off = cold boot
<daftykins> 'cause the machine is 'cold' prior
<SuperEngineer> Supermanintights, it mweans a shut down to complete power off ans then restart
<Supermanintights> I need to slap my friend
<Supermanintights> for buying a PITA monitor
<daftykins> :D
<Supermanintights> I needed to choose HDMI input from a menu
<SuperEngineer> Supermanintights, slap 'im for me as well!
<daftykins> err that's normal
<daftykins> input button presses / selecting an 'auto' mode
<Supermanintights> really? I've never had to do that, ever. I plug it in, and it works.
<Supermanintights> I'm still slapping him for making me lose over 10 hours of my life to this stupid machine.
<daftykins> yep i have a monitor with about 12 input types, cycling through them all is fun++
<SuperEngineer> Supermanintights, welcome to *our* world!
<daftykins> you could've just bought Windows 10 :)
<SuperEngineer> lol
<Supermanintights> haha
<Supermanintights> so it works, "system program problem detected"
<Supermanintights> I am genuinely considering just installing windows and leaving him to it
<SuperEngineer> [face palm coming up]
<daftykins> ignore the message, still working fine at the desktop right?
<Supermanintights> I'm doing a proper reboot now, and hoping it all boots up fine, then we can carry on
<Supermanintights> the error message came up again on this reboot, i think everything else still works ok
<SuperEngineer> Supermanintights, next time it comes up, click on the "ignore" etc
<Supermanintights> we have sound. this is the good news, the bad news is that system program error message pops up every 2 minutes - "cancel" or "report problem"
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> i know those things can happen once, then the messages constantly pop up from the folder they come from
<Supermanintights> I reported problem, then clicked ignore future problems of this type
<daftykins> as they're stored, historical error logs kinda thing
<SuperEngineer> yeah!
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: so when you installed, did you put the /home on the 1TB disk ?
<daftykins> or is it all on the SSD?
<Supermanintights> erm, i think all is on ssd
<Supermanintights> oh, SuperEngineer, sorry i just saw the "super"
<daftykins> so this pal of yours gonna be trying to play games? :>
<Supermanintights> yes
<Supermanintights> dota and WOW apparently
<daftykins> nah i did mean you, i just tab complete failed
<SuperEngineer> daftykins, if that was for me, no way - on dpinning rust in pooter itself
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: sorry :>
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<daftykins> irssi is really annoying for two people with nicks that start the same
<Supermanintights> is it possible to do a save state so if we mess up in the near future, we can restore to this state?
<boreal> urgh, so many registered nicks
<SuperEngineer> [too many "Super}'s in 'ere!
<assistingfriend> there we go, that should be better for you :P
<daftykins> you could use clonezilla to image up the SSD to a file stored on the 1TB mechanical
<assistingfriend> i'll do that another time
<SuperEngineer> SuperEngineer is now known as SuperEngineer - & he ain't gonna be the 1 who changes :D
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> assistingfriend: so is it gonna be Steam time to try some games? ;)
<daftykins> you might want to run gparted to partition that 1TB, format as EXT4 then set it up to be mounted permanently at boot as /media/storage or something
<assistingfriend> hmm, that could be an idea. would I want to do that before steam or anything like that?
<daftykins> yeah 'cause then you can install games to the mechanical and not fill up the SSD
<assistingfriend> wouldn't it run faster from the SSD? I've never used an SSD personally so I wasn't sure of the normal etiquette when it comes to them
<daftykins> it would, though 120GB is not a lot of space for them
<daftykins> either way you need the other disk in a usable form
<assistingfriend> ok, gparting now
<DJones> If you're think about upgrading a dual boot machine to Win 10.  DON'T. it craps up everything
<assistingfriend> do I want GPT partition table?
<daftykins> nah MBR will be fine
<daftykins> no real difference for this scenario
<daftykins> DJones: worked fine here :>
<daftykins> left GRUB intact on a xubuntu machine
<DJones> daftykins: Screwed most thing up, didn't even complete the installation
<daftykins> DJones: what was it, 7 or 8 with ubuntu in EFI or?
<assistingfriend> is there a best practice for installing steam, or can i run the installer from the website etc.?
<daftykins> sudo apt-get install steam
<DJones> daftykins: It was 7 without EFI, thankfully restored win 7 to its orginal
<assistingfriend> daftykins, you mentioned "mounted permanently at boot as /media/storage" - can you possibly help me with that?
<assistingfriend> happy to google, but thought I'd give you a shout seeing as you mentioned it
<daftykins> yeah have you got the 1TB formatted as EXT4 now?
<assistingfriend> yeah
<daftykins> use "sudo blkid" to get the UUID of what is likely /dev/sdb1 - then "sudo apt install pastebinit" then "pastebinit /etc/fstab"
<assistingfriend> paste.ubuntu.com/12152564
<daftykins> make the intended mountpoint first up, with "sudo mkdir /media/storage" for example
<assistingfriend> done
<daftykins> then open /etc/fstab with "sudo nano /etc/fstab" (where nano is a simple text editor) and cursor down to the bottom to add the new line
<daftykins> you are essentially duplicating the style of lines above, values being tab separated
<daftykins> so you paste in the UUID you got for /dev/sdb1 first up from "sudo blkid"
<daftykins> "UUID=blaaaaaaah"
<assistingfriend> damn, need to copy/paste, one sec
<daftykins> hit tab, "/media/storage" tab, "ext4", tab "defaults, user" tab "0" tab "2"
<daftykins> so the whole line would be "UUID=blah /media/storage ext4 defaults,user 0 2"
<assistingfriend> done
<assistingfriend> save and close?
<daftykins> yep ctrl+x, yes, enter
<daftykins> now type "df -h" and see the partitions listed
<daftykins> now "sudo mount -a" should complete without error, mounting the 1TB disk
<daftykins> then "df -h" again will show the newly mounted 1TB
<assistingfriend> sudo mount -a = "mount: unknown filesystem type 'ext4'"
<daftykins> "pastebinit /etc/fstab"
<assistingfriend> paste.ubuntu.com/12152680
<daftykins> yeah you typo'd etx4 :)
 * assistingfriend blushes
<daftykins> rest looks fine
<assistingfriend> sorry
<daftykins> no worries, 'tis human
<daftykins> could quite easily have been me making a mistake in the example
<assistingfriend> how do i pastebin df -h
<assistingfriend> just to check it's working correctly
<daftykins> you should just see sdb1 with 0% use and 930GB odd
<daftykins> df -h | pastebinit
<assistingfriend> it says 1% used, /sdb1 is twice listed
<assistingfriend> paste.ubuntu.com/12152709
<daftykins> should be ok on reboot
<assistingfriend> ok will reboot now
<assistingfriend> thanks, so so so much daftykins and SuperEngineer - you've made what was turning into a very stressful afternoon a success
<daftykins> np :)
<assistingfriend> i'm just installing fish shell for him, then I'm hoping to turn him loose, and that he won't kill it over night
<daftykins> hmm not seen that one
<SuperEngineer> assistingfriend, glad to help [but daftykins did all the work]
<assistingfriend> fish shell? it's much, much better than normal bash, and much more noob friendly
<assistingfriend> http://fishshell.com/
<daftykins> just having a read
<daftykins> mmm, i think learning on the basics is still better :> as otherwise you walk to another system and can't do much
<daftykins> but ah well
<assistingfriend> it's pretty much the same/very similar, most reddit threads etc. all advocate moving to fish anyway.
<assistingfriend> just extra features - auto complete, syntax highlighting etc.
<daftykins> ugh reddit
<daftykins> :>
<SuperEngineer> Anybody else expecting a storm tonight?  I wasn't, but if you took one look outside my [open] windows & felt the strength of wind blowing into your house... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wv1frwsb9rm1nqq/IMG_20150822_182851.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> this was my sky minutes ago
 * SuperEngineer closes windows
<daftykins> heavy rain until 8am allegedly
<daftykins> so might be in for some fun
<SuperEngineer> weee..
<assistingfriend> it's been raining very heavily for the last hour.
<assistingfriend> (Stoke area)
<penguin42> it's been surprisingly warm and dry here, it was supposed to be rainy and thundery
<popey> yeah, very warm here
<SuperEngineer> stop boasting! it's not a rain contest! ;)
<SuperEngineer> hmmm.. methinks popey pays nore tax ;)
<daftykins> that's what's weird, i've got the back door open and it's a cosy temp
<assistingfriend> does anyone have any experience of getting battlenet installed on linux?
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> that the Blizzard launcher thing?
<assistingfriend> yeah
<daftykins> mmm i'd just be googling to find out which was the best approach
<assistingfriend> if not, that suits me as i want to go home, and this is a good excuse to do this another day
<daftykins> :D
<assistingfriend> wine is, apparently. or something called 'play on linux'
<daftykins> could set yourself up SSH access and never have to visit again ;)
<daftykins> latter is a wine wrapper i think
<assistingfriend> it offers me 3 options, and there's zero information as to which I need "trusty, saucy, precise" I think the latter two are ubuntu names, but I have no idea
<assistingfriend> ah they all are.  sorry, I just figured that out
<daftykins> all three are release names
<daftykins> trusty is 14.04 :>
<daftykins> ah now it's cooling off outside
<SuperEngineer> that's odd! I don't remember spilling water on the windows - sky is leaking aleady!
<SuperEngineer> daftykins, warm rain is nice rain, repeat continuously until you believe it ;)
<daftykins> :D
<SuperEngineer> time for comedy tv - bbs
<penguin42> ah, their is the thunder and lightning
<maps> hello
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> ah, Herr maps
 * penguin42 likes it when bad weather happens when I've spent the day outside in nice weather
<maps> hewwo
<maps> get paid in 8 days yay
<maps> paid like 3k in deposit and rent this month
<maps> ;[
<zmoylan-pi> so at this point actually reduced to stealing candy from babies... :-)
<maps> ;]
<maps> hm been packing stuff away t make an easy move and cant find my ipad charger
<maps> might just leave it dead cba going through everything
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-23
<maps> morning
 * ball waves
<maps> ;]
<ball> I should go to bed.
<maps> me too;p 0;14
<maps> watching tv though
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * brobostigon wonders if google will release and android wear version based on android 6, especially as they have released wear 1.3 based on 5.1.1, so close to android 6 release.
<dangoo87> hey there, I'm having issues getting ubuntu to recognise my soundcard - the only device listed is the hdmi monitor speakers, I've tried a few fixes from this: http://www.webupd8.org/2010/11/fix-hda-intel-realtek-alc887-no-sound.html and linked threads: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=314383 but so far I'm having no luck, does anyone have any experience of this and how to resolve?
<dangoo87> my mobo is the asus z170-a with the onboard sound
<directhex> dangoo87: looks like realtek alc892, should be well supported
<dangoo87> I've just been speaking on #ubuntu and it appears that I don't have alsamixer installed/working properly.  I've tried to reinstall and followed a few different ways but it's still not working (alsamixer - no such file or directory)
<directhex> yeah, those people aren't useful.
<directhex> cat /proc/asound/cards
<dangoo87> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12175563/
<directhex> hm
<directhex> sudo modprobe snd-hda-codec-realtek
<directhex> dmesg | tail -10
<dangoo87> that last command gave a huge wall of text
<dangoo87> want me to pastebinit?
<directhex> yes
<dangoo87> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12175607/
<directhex> nothing relevant or related
<directhex> ok
<directhex> my guess here is that it's a new minor minor sub-revision of alc892, which isn't supported by the kernel you're using. you can try a PPA with a bleeding edge kernel
<dangoo87> any idea where I can find that information - I'm reasonably familiar with linux but not that familiar to know where to find these (I can copy/paste terminal commands to add ppa's basically :) )
<dangoo87> alsamixer is there in the /usr/bin folder (I've just been doing some research), but it won't let me run it.
<directhex> it's irrelevant. people who don't understand ubuntu have been leading you on a wild goose chase
<directhex> alsa doesn't know your motherboard audio exists. alsamixer won't change that
<dangoo87> fair enough, you seem a lot more confident in what you're saying so I'm happy to sack those guys off and stick with you, so far #u-uk seems much more helpful from what i've seen in the last couple of days
<directhex> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds for info on downloading mainline kernel builds. you want the absolute latest, which is 4.2-rc7 i think
<dangoo87> i'm on 14.04.03
<dangoo87> will that matter? should I upgrade to wily?
<directhex> hm
<directhex> well, a first step, since you're on LTS
<directhex> is the HW enablement pack. let me grab you the URL
<dangoo87> thanks for this, I understand most of this, but I'm trying to figure out how I would go about updating the kernel/ppa and stuff, and I'm drawing a complete blank
<directhex> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack#Desktop
<directhex> that'l give you 3.19, which is certainly newer
<directhex> not bleeding edge, but newer
<dangoo87> i ran (both) the terminal lines in that link, it said they're all the latest version
<dangoo87> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12175768/
<dangoo87> (if that helps at all)
<dangoo87> is it worth me upgrading to 15.04 directhex ?
<directhex> hmmmm
<directhex> i think i would, for skylake
<dangoo87> do I need to do a backup with clonezilla or anything before I do this, or is it relatively safe to do so without losing everything?
<directhex> i didn't think it was worth trying 14.04 when i built my haswell-e rig
<directhex> ehm, should be pretty safe
<dangoo87> I just went with the LTS
<dangoo87> best way is to just get the download from the site and put it on a usb stick?
<directhex> mmmmmmmm......... no, you'd want to do the upgrade in-distro. but going direct to 15.04 from 14.04 isn't supported
<directhex> the tools will offer 14.10 first
<dangoo87> I see, I saw this thread: http://askubuntu.com/questions/618741/update-ubuntu-14-04-to-15-04
<dangoo87> directhex, ok i'm going to start the upgrade process now, i may pop back in on another irc handle to seek further advice as necessary - thanks SO much for your help, hopefully the upgrade will go a long way to resolving this issue
<directhex> dangoo87: at least being on 15.04 will be a better base for trying a 4.2 kernel
<directhex> not sure they work on lts
<dangoo87> yeah, that makes sense
<daftykins> dangoo87: are you the friend and system owner of the guy that was in yesterday?
<dangoo87> yes
<dangoo87> technically, i'm the friend, i'm just using his account
<dangoo87> he's sat on the bed dreading the inevitable loss of all data and having to start again
<daftykins> funny, he said audio was working fine yesterday
<dangoo87> we got audio working on the hdmi, but we can't get it working if we plug in the headset + mic and everything
<daftykins> oh i thought it was the headphones in the front
<dangoo87> wait, should i try it in the back?
<daftykins> nah directhex knows his stuff - i'm sure you're on the winning course now :)
<dangoo87> ok cool, i'll be on my supermanintights account shortly as it might be best not to mess with this machine while upgrading
<Supermanintights> Well it's upgrading, however the internet speed is diabolical - 250kb/s :(
<daftykins> kilobits per second? so 30KB/sec? :P
<Supermanintights> kB/s
<Supermanintights> I think that is kilobytes
<Supermanintights> i hope it is
<daftykins> rubbish rural connection or are you on a bad mirror?
<Supermanintights> both i think
<daftykins> ah talktalk broadband too
<daftykins> good times
<Supermanintights> i think it should download normally around 800-1meg, but this post code can't get superfast, despite the local exchange having it enabled
<Supermanintights> my life would be so much easier if i took it home and did it all from there, but I'm not allowed
<Supermanintights> fetching file 631/1557 :(
<daftykins> =]
<Supermanintights> I have to do this one more time afterwards as well, to go to 15.04
<daftykins> i'd have totally nuked it.
<Supermanintights> he spent all night and morning downloading games, I'm not allowed to nuke it
<daftykins> right but they live on the 1TB right?
<daftykins> so you only format / during the install and bam, they're all still there
<Supermanintights> Never, ever allow anyone you know to know that you're technically gifted. Worst mistake ever
<daftykins> :D
<Supermanintights> I actually think he fucked that up, and everything is on the SSD
<daftykins> family friendly on the language
<daftykins> well that's still a move away
<Supermanintights> ah my bad, sorry
<daftykins> and too late for that, been helping friends for over 20 years :D
<daftykins> one friends house, damn his little brother managed to trash and fill systems with porn on a monthly basis
<Supermanintights> that's always fun
<Supermanintights> it appears that although he didn't know it at the time (so fault lies with him), that he couldn't use his 1tb as all the ownership and permissions were set for the root account, and not for the 'daniel' account, I've just had to set that up for him
<daftykins> yeah that would've been another step probably
<daftykins> i think i was at my help limit for the day already by then
<Supermanintights> at this stage, it's probably quicker to do the two upgrades than any moving and reinstall of the system.  plus it's experience for him, I'm going to stay here to do the first one with him, the second one we'll do remotely
<daftykins> yeah there's always multiplayer screen sessions for fun
<Supermanintights> haha, that's all good, it's good experience for me (and him when he pays attention), you were a major help especially with the gfx card. his dota on max settings looked lovely
<Supermanintights> what is the best way for me to remote help him from windows to ubuntu?
<Supermanintights> teamviewer?
<daftykins> SSH :P
<Supermanintights> would I get to see his screen that way?
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> TV is alright
<Supermanintights> then I can see that increasing my headache ten fold :P
<daftykins> hmm?
<daftykins> don't use it yourself then i take it? (i don't)
<Supermanintights> I do a bit, for my website, but my knowledge is flimsy
<Supermanintights> too long of a period between using means that I forget the vast majority of stuff I learn, and it's a slow process
<daftykins> best way is to write notes for yourself on how to do things
<daftykins> then rewrite them when redoing the system for a newer LTS
<Supermanintights> yeah, I've recently got into kali so I'm doing that with most things going forward
<daftykins> oh dear, the budding "hackers" choice
<Supermanintights> I love the idea of pen testing (white hat), it's really fascinating to me
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> they're moving to debian so i hear
<zleap> Supermanintights: maybe Ashley Madison should have paid attention to that too
<zleap> and others
<Supermanintights> I've recently got a job working in IT support (start tomorrow), and I've already said that my long term focus is on eventually IT security
<Supermanintights> haha zleap :)
<Supermanintights> yeah kali 2.0 has moved to debian, quite a big change from the old kali
<daftykins> right, best do a shop run before i get too lazy
<diddledan_> evenin
<shauno> wibble.
<diddledan_> wobble
<daftykins> ah diddledan 2.0
<diddledan_> 2.1
<diddledan_> I'm the bugfixed version of 2.0
<daftykins> ah har, and you found out where you're coming from too!
<diddledan_> yeah I think it was my tablott
<diddledan_> (spelign was correct!)
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan_> o_O why is googley chrome giving me weather info for unterwossen?
<daftykins> storms in your unterhosen?
<MartijnV1S> diddledan_: maybe it thinks you're unter wasser?
 * diddledan_ listening to linux-action-show from today - tar-jizz
<foobarry> hello
<foobarry> what does slack do that irc doesn't?
<zmoylan-pi> charge?
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> yeah I don't like this movement to slack
<diddledan_> wordpress development has all moved to slack
<foobarry> evernote is chewing up notes
<foobarry> it dosn't work properly
<foobarry> i've seen notes disppear before my eyes
 * zmoylan-pi laments the fantastic memo app on palm os
<zmoylan-pi> the one on symbian didn't have a search for years, the one on iphone kept corrupting on me
<daftykins> fruity tech!
<zmoylan-pi> the sharp zaurus didn't have one till i reconfigured contacts :-)
<diddledan_> daftykins: wanna get fruity?
 * diddledan_ proposes wet teeshirt competition
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zvkt8o5ilfts9q1/IMG_20150823_195545.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> i already am, with Bishop's Finger
<diddledan_> omg
<diddledan_> ooh and an old peculier
<diddledan_> you're having a threesome!
<daftykins> yep! Â£6 for 3
<Supermanintights> Hey guys, how's it going?
<diddledan_> Supermanintights: my undearwear are on the outside :-(
<daftykins> about par for the sunday night i think
<diddledan_> lol
<zmoylan-pi> and i really miss been able to beam notes with palmos
<Supermanintights> :)
<Supermanintights> underwear on the outside is the best, and really, only way to wear it
<diddledan_> :-)
<diddledan_> I prefer stockings tho. makes the supersuit more .... fun
<Supermanintights> if my new employers didn't have obsolete and frankly, medieval views on fashion and apparel I would wear it that way to work
<diddledan_> really I should be beardy supergirl
<Supermanintights> speaking of which, the new supergirl show look fun
<diddledan_> it does!
<diddledan_> I'm looking forward to it
<daftykins> the new thing with Sir Patrick Stewart just aired in the US apparently
<Supermanintights> the pilot, that I obviously haven't seen as that could be considered illegal, was really good
<daftykins> that looked kinda fun to see ol' baldy again
<diddledan_> daftykins: I couldn't work out whether it was a fake news show or he actually is a cable news anchor
<Supermanintights> although it needs to cut down on certain unnecessary propaganda
<Supermanintights> I'm ordering a takeaway to help me get through this hell of fixing another man's computer.  Should I get a burger to go with my pizza, or some chips and scampi/nuggets?
<diddledan_> chips!
<Supermanintights> chips will come with both the burger and the scampi/nuggets
<Supermanintights> I think the nuggets, let's do this.
<daftykins> i'm from a land with no takeaway, so i'd enjoy a subway, a mcdonalds, burger king and a KFC please
<diddledan_> daftykins: do they do flights to the far isles on a sunday night?
<daftykins> mmm, yep
<daftykins> last one around 8pm ish i suspect
<diddledan_> it's 21:35
<diddledan_> methinks you're out of luck
<daftykins> Jersey has a mcdonalds and a KFC so i understand
<diddledan_> I bet they rub your noses in that fact
<diddledan_> I hear sark has a tractor, too!
<daftykins> ah no 4:35pm was the last flight
<daftykins> from Manchester no less
<daftykins> damn Bostonians are beating Kansas City at that thar baseball
<zmoylan-pi> of course if it's windy enough you can open an umbrella outside and be blown to the mainland :-)
<daftykins> which is exceedingly rude
<daftykins> MartijnV1S: that's true
<daftykins> oops that was a tab complete fail to rival them all
<diddledan_> tabcomplete fail to such an extent that even the first character was wrong
<daftykins> yep!
<Supermanintights> ok, so the update to 15.04 didn't bring extra sound devices in the sound box, i'm going to try the very latest kernel, does anyone know how to do that?
<daftykins> in my defense i have pizza and beer in hand
<diddledan_> only 20 orange boxes in the wild?
<diddledan_> (ubuntu orange boxes, that is)
<Supermanintights> directhex did suggest that earlier
<daftykins> !mainline | Supermanintights
<lubotu3`> Supermanintights: The kernel team supply continuous mainline kernel builds which can be useful for tracking down issues or testing recent changes in the Linux kernel. More information is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds
<daftykins> grab the newest amd64 .deb you can find
<Supermanintights> lubotu is super awesome
<Supermanintights> must make everyone's life so much easier
<diddledan_> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> Error: unresolvable <alias> to isitout-#ubuntu-release-party
<diddledan_> o_O
<diddledan_> someone broke it
<Supermanintights> according to: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/info/kernel-version-map.html - this 4.2.0-5.5	Ubuntu-4.2.0-5.5	4.2.0-rc7 is what i want
<Supermanintights> but I'm not sure how to get it, am I missing a crucial detail?
<daftykins> i don't know what your link is
<Supermanintights> my link gives the list of mainline kernels, i'm currently scouring FAQ to see if I can figure this out
<daftykins> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.2-rc7-unstable/
<daftykins> from my link, or rather lubotus
<daftykins> so grab the http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.2-rc7-unstable/linux-image-4.2.0-040200rc7-generic_4.2.0-040200rc7.201508162030_amd64.deb
<Supermanintights> huh, i'm obviously going daft after 15+ hours of working on this, thanks bud
<daftykins> then sudo dpkg -i blah.deb
<Supermanintights> so save file, rather than opening with ubuntu software center?
<Supermanintights> cool
<daftykins> yip
<Supermanintights> we now have a blank screen with a single flashing cursor after a reboot
<Supermanintights> https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t34.0-12/11937949_10156059239885195_1254911374_n.jpg?oh=4abfcaa331e0db3f11400858ab22b60c&oe=55DBC933
<Supermanintights> is that normal?
<daftykins> wow i've seen better snaps from VHS
<daftykins> i suspect your nvidia module didn't generate properly for the new kernel
<Supermanintights> in my defence, that's his photo, not mine
<Supermanintights> i tested, and we can get to TTY1
<daftykins> well you can hold left shift as the system is about to boot from disk and pick an older kernel
<daftykins> to boot up normally
<Supermanintights> is there no way of getting this kernel to work then?
<Supermanintights> https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t34.0-12/11937949_10156059255780195_1156126210_n.jpg?oh=0cda13048b5d7c213a847abf0adb02c2&oe=55DCE3BA
<Supermanintights> that might be useful info
<daftykins> one step at a time
<Supermanintights> ok cool
<daftykins> doesn't look useful to me
<Supermanintights> so left shift, recovery mode
<Supermanintights> i'm on it
<daftykins> i'd have thought lightdm would've tried to start at all
<Supermanintights> apologies on the delay, I'm being informed that he can't get anything to happen with left shift, spamming, holding, everything - it goes back to the flashing screen
<daftykins> too late on it / it's a USB keyboard and isn't configured right
<daftykins> escape might also work, dunno
<Supermanintights> i'm telling him now, sorry about this
<Supermanintights> somehow, he's landed here: https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t34.0-12/11920364_10156059287195195_600561285_n.jpg?oh=914b208da8cdfda4972736c003147d2f&oe=55DCF7A5
<daftykins> mmm nope power off time
<Supermanintights> ok, powered off. now what? or is that advice to me to just walk away and pretend the computer doesn't exist :P
<daftykins> is your pal trying to get GRUB by gingerly pressing left shift like one would to enter BIOS, or holding it down? 'cause holding for a sec after the POST logo, if one is even seen on those new platforms, might be the ticket
<daftykins> alternatively it might need that kernel removed from live session
<Supermanintights> he's apparently 'tried the lot' to get to recovery mode
<Supermanintights> I believe he's held it down from the moment he's pressed reset
<Supermanintights> if it's live session then that's it for the night as he doesn't have that
<daftykins> probably a USB legacy support ption in the BIOS influencing that, but i think that's going to be too much of a challenge
<daftykins> yeah, 10pm on a sunday night - not ideal problem solving time
<Supermanintights> I feel bad because I bigged up linux and he's had nothing but problems, so I feel it's my responsibility
<daftykins> i think the whole endeavour of desiring Linux with bleeding edge hardware is a bit over optimistic to begin with
<daftykins> ah so it was you!
<Supermanintights> I've explained similar to him, in that the latest hardware might not yet be supported, but if he goes Windows, he won't want to restart
<Supermanintights> well, he did say he wanted linux (doesn't want to pay Â£70 for windows), and I have bigged it up for a while
<Supermanintights> I'd say 90:10 his fault
<Supermanintights> I'm just the poor IT guy
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> if gaming is a top item on the list, sure it's getting better... but damn.
<Supermanintights> gaming, streaming, video recording
<Supermanintights> it was also useful for me to see how it would work on a top range pc, and if it could work on my laptop well as I want to migrate this one over soon
<daftykins> if you care about battery life, that might be the first to go
<Supermanintights> I thought there's normally good linux support for battery life?
<Supermanintights> tbh, I'm just more annoyed at the >10 minute boot times, for what should be a very strong laptop
<daftykins> newp
<daftykins> greater than 10 minute boot? wat?
<daftykins> with what OS o0
<Supermanintights> 8.1
<Supermanintights> I get to windows in about 1-2 minutes, but by the time I can actually use it, it's more than 10 minutes
<Supermanintights> if there's some form of update, then I genuinely look for a tv show episode to watch while I wait
<daftykins> sounds like a bad install
<daftykins> but then 8 needs firing out of a cannon into the sun
<Supermanintights> I think it's just long past format date, and me very rarely (once a month maybe?) turning it off/restarting has just ruined the machine
<daftykins> well i hope you reboot and patch more at your job :P
<Supermanintights> haha yeah
<Supermanintights> I needed it running as I worked with people on different time zones and needed the messages as they happened back in an old job
<Supermanintights> but now I think the fan is broke, my gfx card has gone from running games at high quality effortlessly to struggling on the lowest quality, and it's decidedly worse than when I bought it!
<Supermanintights> I just need to save some pennies in order to buy this: http://www.chillblast.com/Chillblast-Fusion-Leviathan-2.html
<daftykins> that's a really silly spec, as in pants-on-head retarded
<Supermanintights> haha i know right!
<daftykins> sounds like you need to take that thing apart and clean it up
<daftykins> re-do the thermal paste maybe
<Supermanintights> not the thermal paste, but took it apart, carefully cleaned everything
<Supermanintights> I do still have that pc world whatever happens thing covering it, so once I can get my macbook pro (not mine, gifted to me from a friend) repaired so I have some thing in the mean time, I'll send it off again
<Supermanintights> hopefully that gets it repaired or replaced for a new one
<daftykins> someone has a lot of toys
<Supermanintights> haha, just picked up over time or people have old ones that they hand to me
<diddledan_> yawn
<daftykins> *nod*
 * zmoylan-pi goes for coffee and a biccie...
<zmoylan-pi> stand back... it's a monday...
<popey> ooh!
<daftykins> noooo
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-22
<mapps> morning#
<daftykins> \o
<mapps> watching new ep of power, the shows so good:D
<daftykins> ;)
<knightwise> Aloga
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dwatkins> good morning world!
<davmor2> Morning all you cyberwarriors
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins and davmor2
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<TwistedLucidity> Welcome to Monday, it's all downhill from here
<dwatkins> feels like uphill for me so far
<popey> There's a BBC TV crew in our steet, filming the neighbours who have a dog - a thing called "Me and my pet"
<popey> they have a lot of equipment!
<dwatkins> Reality TV at its best, no doubt.
<popey> educational telly for cbeebies I think :)
<bashrc> The equipment is probably for effect. I expect you actually don't need much equipment now to make broadcast quality video.
<dwatkins> When I did my ice bucket challenge, it was filmed on four phones (!)
<bashrc> :)
<davmor2> popey: tell them you have small tigers but no dog
<foobarry> "My pet and me"
<foobarry> probably applies to 70% of the country, I guess people will watch it because they feel it applies to them even though its basically a boring programme about a guys dog. could probably get the same from a guy in the pub
<popey> Well, it's a bit interesting.
<popey> He's a British Transport Police officer, and the dog is a bomb/drug-sniffer trained dog :)
<bittin> meow
<bittin> a british girl was hitting me in the face yesterday, becouse i was too tired to be really social and started coding intead
<bittin> :P
<bittin> is that how you do in the UK?
<popey> Seems reasonable ã
<foobarry> bittin: my daughter does that all the time, but she is 3
<bittin> foobarry: :P
<bittin> this one was like 27
<foobarry> she likes you
<bittin> foobarry: haha don't think so
<bittin> i don't atleast
<foobarry> thats the schoolage rule anyway. i hope teenagers grow out of that
<foobarry> "i like you so much i'm going to pretend i hate you"
<bittin> o:
<bittin> yeah who knows then
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Be An Angel Day! ð ð¼
<bittin> o:
<JamesTait> ð
<BigRedS> Be An Angel Day? You're getting desperate...
 * christel chortles
<JamesTait> BigRedS, they're all a bit rubbish today, tbh.
<BigRedS> Haha, hadn't occurred to me there'd be a choice
<BigRedS> surely no more than 365 things need days dedicated to them?
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/a/GJj5n ubuntu on mr robot se2e05
<bittin> foobarry: a bunch in Season 3 aswell
<foobarry> there's a season 3?
<bittin> yeah its ongoing atm
<bittin> 7 episodes so far
<foobarry> he's installing nano. o hdear
<Seeker`> S2 is ongoing atm
<bittin> ah sorry i am tired and confusing :(
<bittin> confused it with Halt and Catch Fire
<bittin> sleept 2 hours yesterday as i am not feeling well
<bittin> oh well
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luwAMFcc2f8 gotcha covered
<Myrtti> morning
<zmoylan-1i> i have installed nano on some systems that it hasn't come installed on... my android tablet most recently
<davmor2> zmoylan-1i: why would you not install vim instead? ;)
<zmoylan-1i> i tried vim on tablets but lack of real keyboard presents itself quicker than using nano
<zmoylan-pi> what is needed is a keyboard with a standard mounting dock/connector to attach tablet so that it become mini laptop/netbook
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-Device-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Smartphone/dp/B00NB2NZ92/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1471864408&sr=8-3&keywords=logitech+bluetooth+keyboard
<zmoylan-pi> i have seen bt keyboards with some attempts to hold the tablet but as there is no standard size, thickness or special connector they more balance the tablet precariously than hold it
<TwistedLucidity> And that's why the OEMs with fixed form factors (e.g. Apple) can win
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: that one is pretty good to be honest though any keyboard and one of these is probably easier http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/391180564442?lpid=122&chn=ps&googleloc=1007249&poi=&campaignid=620865095&device=c&adgroupid=27378760866&rlsatarget=pla-181484341026&adtype=pla&crdt=0
<zmoylan-pi> i think we've reached a standard with laptops with keyboard on lap/desk and screen just above it.  until a new standard paradigm like a google glass screen that you wear comes along the manufacturers should try and aim towards what we know works...
<foobarry> taking the plunge for cm13 on my phone
<foobarry> cm12.1 is rebooting when i t
<foobarry> ravel between wifi/3g
<foobarry> i always end up destroying my phone
<foobarry> when i go near it
<popey> I'm running cm13 nightly on my OPX
<popey> updated it this morning, see a few interesting changes
<foobarry> what did you notice?
<foobarry> i've got a 20 aug snapshot
<foobarry> there remain a few vulnerabilities in cm13 unpatched
<foobarry> hmm settings-> battery "unfortunately settings has stopped"
<foobarry> first crash within 60s of using it
<zmoylan-pi> wow, it's quicker at everything... :-)
<brobostigon> on my nexus 4, i havent had any issues that i can think of with recent cm13 nightlies.
<foobarry> first thing i notice is something about asking for premissions when the app uses them
<foobarry> upon app install
<popey> yeah
<popey> that and I noticed when it's "optimising" on boot, it actually names each app with the icon
<popey> rather than just a count of 1/153
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> man amazon prime video is weird soetimes
<foobarry> sometimes the quality sucks badly, and plugging my tablet to tv gives terrible quality always, although iplayer is fine etc
<zmoylan-pi> you probably need the prime extra pixels package... :-)
<foobarry> hmmm can't update an app now.
<foobarry> getting nervous about this vm13
<foobarry> error 924
<Dave> oh damn, I forgot to look into my OPX's weirdness again.
<Dave> I keep meaning to do it every weekend and then forgetting
 * davmor2 staples a post it to Dave's head to remind him
<bittin> Linuxcon has started: http://content.jwplatform.com/previews/sGxezkWB-oygsdW3u
<Dave> ow.
<xnox> ZZZZzzzzz
<xnox> that feed is so boring
 * xnox will read summary on lwn.net later
<foobarry> bittin: are the linuxcon sessions recorded and available for me to watch later?
<bittin> foobarry: no idea
<foobarry> one thing i mis about cm12 is the arrows on the wifi/mobile signal to show which network is receiving/sending data
<popey> i use a separate app which prints the network traffic on screen all the time
<foobarry> which ones that popey ? i see the activity when i swipe down though
<popey> foobarry: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.kfsoft.android.TrafficIndicator&hl=en_GB
<popey> I have used it for years.
<foobarry> thx
<nex> hi
<nex> asd
<nex> asf
<nex> sdf
<nex> pls someone write something
<nex> also im sorry for spamming into this channel
<popey> nex: ?
<nex> thx
<ali1234> popey you've done some apt caching right?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> is there anything that actually works?
<popey> i use apt-cacher-ng these days
<popey> the only thing it doesn't work for (currently) (for me) is snapcraft cleanbuild in lxd
<ali1234> does it work with foreign repos?
<popey> which bypasses the cache
<popey> yeah, i think so, you can tell it anything to cache I think
<ali1234> i need it to work with multistrap and debirf
<ali1234> that means no changes to sources.list
<ali1234> approx fails if you have two repos with the same distro name, eg ubuntu main archive and the partner repo which are both /ubuntu
<popey> acng is the only one that worked for me
<ali1234> it can't tell them apart
<ali1234> unless you change sources.list
<popey> my sources.list is vanilla
<ali1234> does it start the service as soon as it is installed?
<popey> i think so
<popey> i think i followed a guide
<ali1234> hah. it just works
<popey> :)
<ali1234> okay let's give it a slightly harder test...
<ali1234> that also works :)
<popey> woot
<popey> nice admin/stats page http://localhost:3142/acng-report.html?doCount=Count+Data#stats
<popey> http://imgur.com/a/pmzUU what I see
<popey> using snapcraft means a lot of apt gets
<ali1234> yeah really
<ali1234> ogra made packageproxy snap for this reason
<popey> oh neat
<ali1234> but it uses approx, which is broken
<popey> ah
<ali1234> it only works properly if you edit your sources.list, not as a proxy
<ali1234> which isn't much use when you are trying to bootstrap a foreign repo
<popey> ð
<ali1234> is that a moose?
<ali1234> hmm... not reachable from my lan
<ali1234> hah... my IP changed because i have a new computer, and i didn't notice
<zmoylan-pi> the police will alledge that is you evading their lawful surveillance... :-P
<ali1234> popey: another random question: http://askubuntu.com/q/815431/12435
<ali1234> see also pm
<daftykins> just been out planning a stag do for a friend :) check out the view over the town harbour area from the proposed venue, it's the local Royal Yacht Club https://www.dropbox.com/s/9f90mqkofk6ejqf/IMG_20160822_195411.jpg?dl=0
<zmoylan-pi> those railings look good for handcuffing someone to them... :-)
 * daftykins whistles
<zmoylan-pi> useful tip, drop a small key that looks like the key for the cuffs out of reach... keeps them amused for hours... :-D
<daftykins> our mate is a tough one, he's likely to walk out and bail on a whole evening if he's pushed too far... so it's quite a tame event planned
<daftykins> they're going karting in the morning, followed by a boat trip over to Herm (the narest smaller island) with some clay pigeon shooting, then back here and into the above Yacht Club for some old school consoles like Nintendo 64s from our school days to play whilst a curry house buffet one street over is delivered to the tables \o/
<zmoylan-pi> and hopefully no drinking before or during the clay pigeon shooting...
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> way too many weddings this past few years
<zmoylan-pi> i just bought a small silly pressie for the landlords son who is getting married this friday...
<daftykins> ooh?
<zmoylan-pi> i just buy small piggie banks and fill them with â¬1 coins.
<zmoylan-pi> weddings are just silly expensive for those getting married
<daftykins> too right, seems insane for an event like that to cost so :) i've always been the type to shy away from standing up and being known so i would avoid it entirely for sure!
<daftykins> that's a neat plan though, i wonder how many you fit in ;)
<zmoylan-pi> a guy i worked with spent 50k on a wedding.  getting divorced now.  spending the same again on lawyers i think
<zmoylan-pi> about â¬140
<daftykins> erk! and that's a good value for sure
<daftykins> you pop down the bank and say "fill 'er up!"
<daftykins> + ?
<zmoylan-pi> i throw coins into a pot when i get home, small coins go in piggy bank, large coins go in pot.  i just emptied the big pot into the gift piggy bank
<daftykins> :D
<popey> ali1234: thanks, will take a look
<zmoylan-pi> piggy bank ttp://imgur.com/a/QxvlF
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: are any local ones green? Sark has a golden one
<zmoylan-pi> seems the uk ones used to green at first too.  only went red later iirc
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> ours here in Guernsey are blue :)
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_box#Moving_towards_a_standard_design bronze green
<zmoylan-pi> they painted a few around dublin red for the centenary of the 1916 rising a few months back.  they've since been repainted green
<daftykins> Penfolds!? That reminds me of my new Dangermouse shirt ;)
<zmoylan-pi> wasn't their secret hideout in a post box in 80s series?
<daftykins> i think so :D
<daftykins> finally i know the origin of that name!
<zmoylan-pi> and now we know the connection between name of sidekick and location...
<daftykins> minds officially blown
<zmoylan-pi> much deeper than we ever gave it credit... :-)
<zmoylan-pi>  blue boxes for airmail... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_box#Air_mail
<daftykins> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_box#/media/File:GuernseyPostBox.jpg
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> you don't realise when you look at them but those post boxes are the result of 150 years of development and perfecting a design
<daftykins> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqd3JgaWYAAR-vJ.jpg:large
<daftykins> what a strange modern time where consoles get games before PC :P
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-23
<mapps> morning
<dwatkins> allo
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<diddledan> mernign
<Seeker`> good moaning
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Internauts Day! ð
<BigRedS> Internaut? You're making that up
<SuperEngineer> Sounds much like "web designer" - an incorrectness because there was only one "web designer".
<SuperEngineer> "I'm a web designer"... No!  "I'm a web site builder"... yes [maybe] ;-)
<popey> bigcalm: car gone yet?
<BigRedS> yeah, just wikipediad it and in France it just means anybody who uses the Internet
<SuperEngineer> ...and *real* web builders are arachnoid anyway - I'll get my coat now.  ;-)
<bigcalm> popey: no :( But I do have a 64gb micro sd card in my opx now..
<diddledan> I'm a web developer. not a designer, nor a site builder, though I do create sites
<diddledan> nomenclature is difficult
<diddledan> as is naming things
<bigcalm> popey: running everything from the micro sd card - is this something one sets up after installing CM13?
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: the first part makes sense [you're a spider],the last part makes it read "I design homes for Wimpey".
<SuperEngineer> I assume neither are true :-D
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> I thought wimpy were a fast-food restaurant chain :-p
<SuperEngineer> lol
<SuperEngineer> [though some would say Wimpy was a major part of Ubuntu Mate]
<bigcalm> I enjoyed their bacon rolls when I went to summer school to learn about C (many many many moons ago)
<popey> bigcalm: yes
<popey> bigcalm: however, it seems I am using both storages now
<bigcalm> popey: interesting
<bigcalm> I wonder if I should decrypt my phone before moving over to CM
<bigcalm> Not sure it should make any difference though
<popey> i think in some update I have applied, it now sees both storage types
<popey> unless it's undone what I did to move everythin to sd
<davmor2> JamesTait: gotcha covered a song by the internet made popular by the internet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmY8mG4_3j4
<davmor2> JamesTait: it was about as internety as I could get with one song ;)
<diddledan> I would listen to it but there's a bar steward outside with a mower or something
<davmor2> JamesTait: although I nearly hit you with this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jofNR_WkoCE but then realised you had it bookmarked already ;) along with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ which you have to admit is made popular by the internauts :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: equally the last one applies to the internauts too :D
<davmor2> JamesTait: just had a brainwave https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k07cflKCl-Y&list=PL6E1AC915A0204BC0 and I know you and diddledan will listen to that :)
<diddledan> ooh yeah, now we're talking
<diddledan> why is it that we know how terrible that movie is at depicting computers and such yet we love it so much?
<diddledan> remember, folks, risc is the future
<diddledan> yeah, risc is good
<davmor2> diddledan: more worryingly we know how accurate antitrust is and we don't like it as much as hackers
<diddledan> davmor2: I guess it's something to do with binary, we're either alive or dead
<davmor2> diddledan: even though antitrust is also a little far fetched too :D
<bigcalm> popey: CM13 is nightly only that I can see. How often do you update? I got a bit tired of doing it so frequently on my SGS5
<davmor2> diddledan: nothing at all to do with a young Angelina Jolie of course though right
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/r3cM5P8tUhc?t=26
<diddledan> oh no, not at all. not even in a red leather one-piece
 * diddledan zones-out
<davmor2> diddledan: admittedly he does make a really good bad guy :)
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> he does the inspirational speeches well, too
<davmor2> popey: look even old films are on about convergence ;)
<diddledan> oh dear. just got a message from someone at my old job letting me know he's found a bug in a site I helped develop, where the site is spending ~65% of time on a single line of code I wrote
<diddledan> I failed hard by the sounds
<davmor2> diddledan: I bet the made changes that caused it ;)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> http://www.thefuntheory.com/
<bigcalm> popey: did you have any trouble getting your OPX to show up with adb devices?
<diddledan> http://geography.oii.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/InternetTube_v2-01.png
<popey> bigcalm: not once I enabled it and used a good cable
<diddledan> that's a good map
<diddledan> shows a lot of south america only has one link out
<bigcalm> popey: okay, ta. I shall dig some more
<diddledan> auso aus only has two links
<diddledan> same with jpn (surprisingly)
<diddledan> aus could do with a link to south america methinks
<diddledan> that would reduce the latin america's dependency on a single link and improve australia's own redundancy
 * diddledan single-handedly solves the internets
<bigcalm> popey: the phone to show up with the help of http://bernaerts.dyndns.org/android/339-android-oneplustwo-oneplusx-enable-adb-mtp-detection-ubuntu-trusty
<foobarry> in spite of CM13 setting saying "wifi always on while sleep", seems not to work :(
<popey> bigcalm: all done?
<bigcalm> Well, it took my entire lunch break, but it's now booting into CM (at least I have the CM logo and expanding circle of the boot screen)
<bigcalm> Now preparing apps 22 of 113
<bigcalm> Successful I think
<popey> neato
<popey> my android phone has a notification light. i have no idea what the various flashing lights mean
<moggers57> it blinks the light to let you know it wants more charging :-)
<diddledan> blinkin' flashy!
<diddledan> shed some light on the matter to illuminate the reader
<diddledan> I'm full of bright ideas like that
<moggers57> we've all got our blinking, flashing and beeping lights... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1WemnsB98o
<diddledan> good movie
<bigcalm> popey: moving everything over to the sd card was easy enough. Thanks for letting me know about it
<popey> np
<davmor2> moggers57: telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl
<moggers57> i'm aware of it's existince... :-)
<davmor2> moggers57: just more blinkenlights
<SuperEngineer> moggers57 is obviously aware on all channels!  :-D
<SuperEngineer> [ moggers57 alone will understand that ]
<TwistedLucidity> I am aware of moggers57 awareness
<SuperEngineer> lol
<moggers57> i'm aware that you're aware that i'm aware
 * SuperEngineer worries some humans have become cross channel aware... contacts home planet and considers action
<moggers57> once brexit kicks in cross channel awareness will dip... :-P
<SuperEngineer> roflmfa
<SuperEngineer> roflmfo even
<SuperEngineer> roflmfao even even
<SuperEngineer> [sorry, recieving instructions from home planet & telling them what they can do with it is distracting]
<Azelphur> This new AMD Zen stuff looks interesting... been thinking of upgrading my desktop, might hold off
<Azelphur> 8 core, 16 threads... >:)
<ali1234> why bother with AMD at this point?
<ali1234> just buy intel
<Azelphur> ali1234: they claim to be beating out Intel
<ali1234> yeah right
<Azelphur> ali1234: they've shown a benchmark result too
<ali1234> so?
<ali1234> benchmarks are terrible
<popey> lolMD
<ali1234> prediction: it will beat an i7 in one specific benchmark, use 600W, and in the real world it will be bottlenecked by terrible memory bus speeds
<ali1234> you know, like every AMD CPU ever
<Azelphur> ali1234: hope not, I like what AMD is doing in the open source world, really want an excuse to give AMD money
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> you like that they keep stringing everyone along with promises that they are never going to deliver?
<Azelphur> ali1234: lol, there is that possibility :)
<ali1234> they've been doing it now for 10 years
<Azelphur> ali1234: that said I did find an excuse to buy an AMD 390, it's a tad cheaper than the 1060 and performs about 93% of that in various game benchmarks, but it has twice the RAM and supports crossfire
<ali1234> >_<
<ali1234> crossfire is dumb
<ali1234> should have just bought a 1080
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, a 1080 would have literally cost more than the entire budget for the build
<Azelphur> not my machine :)
<ali1234> two 390 costs the same as a 780Ti
<ali1234> guess which one is better
<ali1234> for that matter a 980Ti is even cheaper
<moggers57> ah the joy of not been a pc gamer anymore... :-D
<popey> peasant
<moggers57> i'd like a nice pheasent about now...
<popey> nom nom
<Azelphur> ali1234: well the point was one 390 now and maybe another one later
<Azelphur> when they are not worth much
<diddledan> apparently I'm in Scotland. and missing: http://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/our-region/falkirk-district/stenhousemuir/stenhousemuir-man-missing-1-4209568
<diddledan> I hope he's found ok
<Azelphur> diddledan: wat
<DJones> diddledan: From the links on the same page you've been found http://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/our-region/falkirk-district/stenhousemuir/missing-man-found-safe-and-sound-1-4210030
<diddledan> yey, go me
<moggers57> still not a patch on the japanese tourist who was listed as missing and turned up helping search for herself... http://travel.aol.co.uk/2012/08/28/tourist-joins-search-and-rescue-operation-to-find-herself-Iceland/
<SuperEngineer> On the subject of "the lost": http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/08/pokemon-go-sheds-more-than-10m-users/
<SuperEngineer> [perhaps they're all in hospital from head on lamp post injuries?]
<moggers57> they're waiting for the release of a phone that will last all day unaided playing that game?
<SuperEngineer> :-)
<nucc1> is it possible to make linux ignore tcp keepalive probes?
<nucc1> i went as far as to make a small C program where i explicitly set the SO_KEEPALIVE option to 0 on the socket, yet, it still acks when it gets a keepalive packet
<nucc1> gah. my question answered. keepalives are not a special thing.
<daftykins> Deus Ex just unlocked on Steam \o/
<bigcalm> That was a very long video
<bigcalm> I don't need to play it now
<daftykins> i thought it was cooling down, yet i find it's 27 deg C here today >_<
<daftykins> ah har that guy uses bigv
 * daftykins used to
<bigcalm> Digital Ocean made Bytemark terribly expensive
<bigcalm> !rat
<daftykins> yeah i moved
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 10th September 2016, Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3350-real-ale-train-2016/
<bigcalm> It's a shame as they are nice people at Bytemark
<daftykins> yeah, support seemed quite good whilst i was there
<ali1234> is there an ntp suite in debian that doesn't depend on perl?
<diddledan> ali1234: openntpd doesn't according to the package meta: Depends: libc6 (>= 2.17), init-system-helpers (>= 1.18~), adduser, netbase
<ali1234> yeah, found it... it doesn't seem to work though
<ali1234> it doesn't set the clock unless i run it manually.. even though it gets started as a service
<diddledan> it'll not set the clock directly - it skews the clock to maintain the time over long periods
<ali1234> that's a problem because the system clock will be set to 1970 at boot
<ali1234> the regular ntp package handles this okay, but it is 32MB
<diddledan> it maintains a drift file which records how much the system clock changes over time when compared to upstream
<ali1234> openntpd is like 10kB or something
<diddledan> you want ntpdate to set the clock on boot
<ali1234> openntpd can do it but only if you supply the right options to it
<ali1234> i'm not sure if it handles if up/down either
<ali1234> also the network wont be up at boot
<ali1234> i guess i'll just have to deal with the 32MB of dependencies
<ali1234> also i need to figure out some way of creating a wpa_supplicant.conf during boot
<daftykins> this one of those automated devices to send a client use-cases?
<diddledan> why is twitter full of people reposting "omgzor huge bsod!1!" messages?
<ali1234> yes
<daftykins> and it has to be wireless? :(
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> also it runs from a ramdisk
<ali1234> no changes to the root filesystem = they cant break it
<ali1234> i don't want to bake their wifi password in though
<daftykins> what type of device is it?
<ali1234> raspberry pi 3
<ali1234> the application is a "magic mirror"
<daftykins> ah yeah, my one running picoreplayer uses a similar setup to run the music streamer
<daftykins> even has a little web admin where config changes write out then ask to reboot to enact them, as it too runs from RAM
<ali1234> yeah i can save the config onto the fat partition
<ali1234> but i need something to restore it at the next boot
<ali1234> i guess i need to write a systemd unit
<daftykins> weird nick
<moggers57> might have loads of recipies for leg of lamb...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> my my, a nick change!
<moggers57> to annoy someone in another channel... :-)
<daftykins> haha, the nicest of motivations
<daftykins> oh my, still 24 deg C outside at 10pm
<moggers57> i could annoy for ireland at the olympics... and take home platinum... :-D
<moggers57> not as good as my brother mind, but enough for online trolls and fun and games...
<daftykins> remind me to call on your services when #kodi gets another one!
<moggers57> the best rule is to use the words of the troll against them.  it's funnier that way
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<daftykins> lo
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I  am watching the kind of thing I woudn't normally watch on TV
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but this thing is partly relevent to me so
<daftykins> said thing must be enjoyable!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, it was ok
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-24
<daftykins> haha, my unix login to University still works, 8 years on
<daftykins> all my data is still there...
<moggers57> how much space did they give you 8 years ago?
<daftykins> i actually can't find any evidence of a quota
<daftykins> although i've no idea of commands for that, seems it's become a RHEL host now
<moggers57> start copying iso's up and see when it borks... :-P
<daftykins> hah, i think technically it's wrong me even connecting in so nah i'm gonna leave it be
<daftykins> found one of the techs still works there though, i could drop him an email and be all "wat"
<moggers57> does the system not have an internal messaging option? :-)
<daftykins> pff if CLI email exists i'm not touching it
<daftykins> i don't think that department had email o0
<moggers57> not email, a text message from one console to another on a server... surely linux has one...
<daftykins> oh like wall
<daftykins> think that required root last i saw - i have no idea
<moggers57> i should probably try and get my 4 hours of sleep now... o/
<daftykins> gl!
<daftykins> dream of rainbow postboxes by John Penfold (:
<moggers57> oooo crumbs chief
<daftykins> 8D
<mapps> hi
<daftykins> mornin'
<diplo> Morning all
<daftykins> g'morn
<TwistedLucidity> o/
<daftykins> \o
<SuperMatt> \o/
<TwistedLucidity> Steady now..
<davmor2> Morning all you happy shiny people
<daftykins> :D gm davmor2!
<SuperMatt> TwistedLucidity: are you saying I'm only allowed to enthusiasticly extend one arm?
<TwistedLucidity> Health and Safety, mate. Have you had the "Both arms in the air" training along with the certificate of "Bathing and deoderant use"?
<SuperMatt> this is just health and safety gone mad! I should be allowed to do whatever I want
<TwistedLucidity> To be free who you want to be etc.
<SuperMatt> And if the spinning buzzsaws which make up the walls of this room cut off my arm, well that's your fault as an employer for making a dangerous work place
<TwistedLucidity> The buzzsaws were completely safe until you walked into them. You were offered the training but refused, we therefore have no liability.
<SuperMatt> Fine, we'll just have to take this to a tribunal!
<TwistedLucidity> Or....maybe we fitted the stop device that detects skin contact. Dare you to find out....
<SuperMatt> I think maybe I'll just take the training
<TwistedLucidity> And, if anyone is curious, such a device does exist. It runs a small charge through the cutting blade, skin contact causes that to drop, the brake slams in & blade is retracted.
<TwistedLucidity> Ruins the machine, like
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: I think you mean "To be free, to do what I want, any old time"
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Don't you go telling me what I mean! I'm free to mean what I mean, man! STOP OPPRESSSING ME!
 * davmor2 hits the emergency stop button on the op press so TwistedLucidity stops shouting
<TwistedLucidity> Caps lock is dodgy, but at least I fixedtheblastedspacebar.
<daftykins> WANT TO SWAP?
<davmor2> oh wait there is no emergency stop button on the op press so it will have to keep oppressing you that's the way of life
<TwistedLucidity> Oppressed for life? Sounds like Darth May's endgame.
<TwistedLucidity> Or maybe Baltimore Police's
<TwistedLucidity> What's that up in the sky? Is it a plane? Is it a bird? Is it Superman? NO! It's a police drop doing 24/7 surveillance.
<TwistedLucidity> s/drop/drone
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Pluto Demoted Day! ð â
<daftykins> ooh i bet that's been a few moons already by now
<davmor2> JamesTait: pluto you say https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuhlhUi0O-I gotcha covered
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<BigRedS> Gooood Morning!
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS
<BigRedS> Ah, morning!
<BigRedS> How's tricks?
<davmor2> BigRedS: It's Magic but not a lot
<BigRedS> haha
 * daftykins debates doing more with the day
<diddledan> daftykins: days should be avoided as much as possible. doing things with them is a bad idea
<davmor2> daftykins: what the hell did day do to deserve you doing more with it
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> just taken the short stroll along to Boots, oh my lord the outfits on these kids today O_O
<daftykins> can just imagine the poor parents
<moggers58> in you day they wore respectable shell suits... :-P
<daftykins> exactly"
<daftykins> *!
<daftykins> GOLA!
<daftykins> finest imports from Newcastle
<davmor2> daftykins: they wore newky brown
<daftykins> finest of beverages
<rixon> Hi there, IIRC there were some issues using dist-upgrade on some of the older versions... is this still a problem? we have an old 14.04 box we're considering upgrading to 16.04 - would it be better to just reformat and doa clean install?
<rixon> *do a
<daftykins> what does it do? 14.04 is LTS - why do you want to upgrade?
<daftykins> dist-upgrade incidentally doesn't mean upgrade between versions :)
<daftykins> it's the red herring of apt-get commands
<rixon> so why does the motd suggest it is?
<rixon> lol
<daftykins> "Run 'do-release-upgrade' to upgrade to it."
<daftykins> no it doesn't :)
<rixon> ah
<rixon> haha ok
<daftykins> so what does this system do?
<rixon> it's a live web server with a mysql database and some high-traffic(well, ok maybe not 'high' but a fair amount) web applications for our clients...
<rixon> do the older LTS still patch the recent gcc exploits and stuff?
<rixon> I assume they still get security updates right?
<daftykins> yes they do
<daftykins> LTS would be a really bad name otherwise - Long Term Support
<rixon> hm ok so maybe it's not so important to update
<daftykins> nope not even vaguely - a justified LTS upgrade would be for a desktop PC with bleeding edge hardware that needed the newer kernel and X.org
<rixon> well IMO support != security updates, support = well, you know... help.
<daftykins> both come hand in hand
<BigRedS> rixon: apt-get dist-upgrade is a part of the Debian way of upgrading between releases. do-release-upgrade is a Ubuntu tool that does that and all the prep you need to do on either side, which is probably where you got that from
<rixon> right, ok thanks BigRedS
 * daftykins runs apt dist-upgrade on his ubuntu systems daily
<daftykins> but yeah... after all, if you had a critical kernel bug, you'd want support for it, which'd come via a security update ;D
<rixon> ok...
<BigRedS> yeah, it really should be apt-get full-upgrade or something
<daftykins> "apt full-upgrade" is the new one
<rixon> well we have an in-office dev server on 12.04 (oldest LTS?) and we're rebuilding & reformatting it anyway so we figured we'd just put 16.04 on it but my boss is thinking 'things will be in different places compared to our live 14.04 servers'
<daftykins> huge difference yes, because it'll go from thingy to systemd
<rixon> as he's seen the root dir structure change between 11.x/12.x/14.x
<diddledan> upstart
<daftykins> diddledan: thingy
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> from upstart to systemd
<diddledan> :-p
<rixon> ah yes this systemd is something I've already had a little issue with, eth0=enp0s3, etc...
 * diddledan plays with daftykins' thingy
<daftykins> no that's the kernel change i think, totally separate
<BigRedS> the root dir structure? But, yeah, the init system changing's going to be the biggest difference. It'll boot faster and you'll have no idea what's going on between the kernel loading and your getting a login
<daftykins> my plan is probably going to be to keep running 14.04 servers until 18.04 is out :)
<rixon> how long is 'long term' then? 5yr?
<daftykins> !lts
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. Until 12.04 LTS versions of Ubuntu were supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server; since 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) LTS versions will be supported for 5 years on the desktop and server. The latest LTS version of Ubuntu is !Xenial (Xenial Xerus 16.04)
<rixon> hm
<daftykins> keep to 14.04 and put the saved effort into virtualising instead perhaps ;)
<popey> I moved all my machines bar one from 14.04 to 16.04
<popey> no real drama with any of them
<TwistedLucidity> I need to upgrade my servers this weekend, but I also need to pick berries and make jam/liqeurs. Decisions....
<diddledan> I vote jam
<daftykins> i can help with the QA of the latter \o
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: This is experimental stuff...no idea what it will taste like in ~12 months.
<diddledan> good quote: "The default assumption is that pull quotes on the web are fine, because everyone else is doing pull quotes on the web. But has anybody ever stopped to ask why? It was this same spiral of unexamined assumptions that led to the web drowning in a sea of splash pages in the early 2000s."
<TwistedLucidity> The sure phases are: all sweet alcohol; sweet fruit; paint stripper; nice.
<diddledan> ref: https://medium.com/@adactio/why-do-pull-quotes-exist-on-the-web-30e87e7773ab#.y7uq3hyc0
<daftykins> TwistedLucidity: ah, then i promote diddledan to chief tester!
 * daftykins steps backwards a pace
<rixon> so aside from eth0=enp0s3, and upstart/systemd... is there anything else major I need to be aware of?
<TwistedLucidity> Another skeuomorph, why do websites only use the middle quarter or my rather nice screen?
<rixon> I think we're going to install 14.04 and virtualise 16.04 to tinker with
<popey> TwistedLucidity: that irritates me too
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: the assumption is that scanning the width of a 24inch screen is hard work
<daftykins> rixon: yes, not version number chasing - plus look at what versions of your companies' chosen web server, PHP version and any other items each release comes with to be sure you standardise on what you need for what you produce
<daftykins> must say i rarely full screen a browser
<rixon> yes this is the problem we're trying to get out of haha our live servers are 14.04 and our dev server is still 12.04, so we're going to 14.04
<moggers57> only when i'm doing screenshots do i full screen a browser
<rixon> thanks for the advice =) I'm already conscious of the Apache/PHP/MySQL versions
<daftykins> rixon: also, if you downloaded media (an ISO) for say 14.04.5 it'll have a different kernel to one that was installed from 14.04.3 for example
<daftykins> rixon: so i tend to always go 14.04.1 as that remains on the original 3.13 kernel but updates fine to still be the current release number, 14.04.5
<daftykins> that can be a little confusing too
<rixon> hm is there a way I can find out what 14.04.x it was installed from? (it was set up before I was in this company)
<daftykins> check the kernel "uname -r"
<rixon> is ther a list of ubuntu release versions => kernel versions somewhere?
<daftykins> at this point i feel you and the wiki could become friends
<rixon> 'yes on the wiki' would have done ;P ok cheers
<rixon> sorry I'll stop bugging you now
<rixon> =)
<rixon> thanks
<daftykins> yeah i get called all sorts when i'm that blunt though :(
<rixon> that's not being blunt - I was asking if there was that information somewhere, and 'yes on the wiki' is a straight answer to what I was asking - sarcasm about being friends with a wiki is more blunt than a astraight answer
<rixon> :P
<daftykins> i disagree
<rixon> well fair enough you can disagree if you want to but I think most normal human beings think snarky sarcasm warrants you 'getting called all sorts' more than giving a straight answer
 * diddledan bops daftykins
<daftykins> see i don't know why anyone reads that as snarky sarcasm
<daftykins> what a world we live in :/
<TwistedLucidity> Oh FFS. Just RTFM!!!!!111!!1!one
 * diddledan sounds the siren
<daftykins> TwistedLucidity: hear hear!
<TwistedLucidity> LOL
<diddledan> well that descended quickly
<popey> rixon: /var/log/installer should reveal what it was installed from
<rixon> thanks popey
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<daftykins> lo
<diddledan> average height
<daftykins> ooh my, warmth but then thunder and now rain
<diddledan> yey
<diddledan> this is nature's way of telling you that you should be in bed
<SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan yay I worked on a email twice, a long  good email
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and lost it both times!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> both versions
<foobarry> does encryption slow down android? boot time, general usage?
<foobarry> i know that encryption got enabled on my huld2 and it slows the boot time yby 90s
<daftykins> which phone?
<daftykins> it probably differs by age
<popey> not noticable on my opx
<rixon> nor my N6P
<diddledan> fun video (hour-long) where they carry-on regardless of technical issues: https://youtu.be/Sb7UmXhs32M
<diddledan> tis brian lunduke
<daftykins> oh hey it's the Matt that used to be on LAS
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> i remember digging deep to find out when and why he disappeared
<diddledan> yeah I still haven't worked out what happened there
<daftykins> the comments on that one seem a bit undecided too
<popey> i have been asked to be on one of them
<moggers57> that sentence parses multiple ways...
<diddledan> popey: is there any kind of canonical requirements for appearing on other people's shows or are you allowed autonomy to show-up as part of "the community team"?
<moggers57> leave his os/2 t-shirt at home... :-P
<popey> there are no such requirements
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> I figured as much, based on my perceptions of canonical being an open company, but thought I'd ask as strict companies insist on certain things by contract when you start working for them
<rixon> wow I just read that IBM still supported os/2 right up til December 2006... I thought it was dead long before that
<diddledan> one such contractural thing I struggle reconciling with is that the company will own all inventions I make even if I make them outside of the work environment
<diddledan> I guess a good candidate for job X would be able to negotiate on such points though...
<moggers57> there was a recent release of os/2 updates
<moggers57> like a good os it just won't die... :-)
<diddledan> where's zmoylan-pi?
<moggers57> o/
<daftykins> he's him!
<diddledan> oh
<moggers57> using a different handle as part of a joke in another channel
<diddledan> well that's messing with my head :-p
<rixon> ok this is winding me up now, I've got the ISO on USB and booted from it, installed, had a secureboot issue, tried again this time doing the 'integrity check' - I've checked the md5sum of the ISO, it's correct but once I've put it on a USB with rufus (and even unetbootin) and boot from it, 'check integrity' on it fails the check...
<daftykins> you don't have to install EFI if the machine is legacy capable
<daftykins> try another drive if you can
<rixon> a different USB? do you think it could be bad?
<rixon> hm ok
<daftykins> it's just the easiest approach
<rixon> didn't have any write errors but I will try another
<daftykins> another would be writing with a Loonix using dd or cp etc.
<daftykins> i don't think flash drives tend to give clues like that
<rixon> rufus has a 'dd mode' and an 'iso mode' - the ubuntu wiki recommended iso mode
<daftykins> yeah i mean dd natively, as in terminal, but i've used dd mode from Windows just fine
<rixon> oic
<diddledan> I recommend dd mode on the newer iso images
<daftykins> in fact as it writes contiguously i've found it faster, too
<rixon> diddledan: it's 14.04
<rixon> (.4)
<daftykins> i'd recommend 14.04.1
<diddledan> don't you already have 14.04?
<rixon> atm we have a formatted hdd
<rixon> lol
<diddledan> o_O
 * diddledan scratchy noodle
<daftykins> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/14.04.1/
<rixon> daftykins: what was teh reason for the old kernel preference in .1?
<rixon> *the
<rixon> or better worded: for your preference of .1 for the old kernel
<daftykins> install from that image for all of them, maintain consistency
<daftykins> HWEs are in use with the later ones which could be a slight hassle in the future, depends
<daftykins> the wiki page showing which comes with which covers it
<rixon> isn't HWE for graphics stack?
<rixon> we're not interested in running X
<daftykins> please look it up
<daftykins> !hwe
<lubotu3> The Ubuntu LTS enablement stacks provide newer kernel and X support for existing LTS releases, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
<rixon>  < daftykins> the wiki page showing which comes with which covers it
<rixon> ^looking for this
<rixon> oh i see
<rixon> ok
<rixon> I must say I still don't really understand why you're suggesting to not have the newer kernel - what is this 'slight hassle in the future'?
<rixon> OH is it because support ends and suggests going to 14.04.5 after this month?
<rixon> in which case why not install 14.0.4.5?
<rixon> this isn't making much sense to me I'm afraid.
<diddledan> hwe kernels have a shorter support lifecycle
<daftykins> for the simplest life, 14.04.1
<rixon> I see that but support for 14.04.5 ends at the same time as 14.04.1
<rixon> on a newer kernel too
<daftykins> which only matters for desktops really
<daftykins> honestly i've not been saying all this for a laugh :)
<rixon> haha I know I'm not saying you're pulling my leg I'm just having a hard time understanding why you're suggesting to pick an older kernel for the same amount of support as the newer one... why is it only a desktop matter?
<daftykins> because the gains in a newer kernel would typically be hardware support gains which are less relevant to servers
<rixon> oh
<rixon> ok thanks for putting up with me =)
<daftykins> bed for me o/
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> it's.. early
<moggers57> or very very very late
<rixon> haha yea
<rixon> not even home time yet
<rixon> ok so I'm still getting the same problem: I've tried both 14.04.4 and 14.04.1, both ISOs pass the md5 checksum but the in-installed integrity verification check fails. I've tried imaging the ISO with both rufus and unetbootin, both with the same results. The install appears to work anyway but then when I boot after installing I get an error with secureboot.
<rixon> *in-installer
<rixon> I've tried: 2 diffferent ISOs, 2 different imaging software, 2 different USB sticks...
<rixon> same result
<davmor2> rixon: just run the disc check from the menu on the usb pen drive
<rixon> yes it fails
<rixon> that's what I'm saying
<rixon> the md5 checksum of the ISO is correct, but once imaged to the USB and booted off - that check in the menu fails
<davmor2> rixon: use disks to copy it you pendrive if you have an ubuntu system
<rixon> use disks?
<davmor2> rixon: if you are on an Ubuntu system, tap the top icon and type in disks, in disks select the pen drive on the left, tap the top right icon and select format disk, and then restore disk image and select the iso
<davmor2> rixon: I have no idea what rufus is doing to the iso
<rixon> the ubuntu wiki suggests to use rufus (i'm on windows)... also it's not just rufus - I've tried unetbootin as well
<diddledan> rufus does weird mangling
<diddledan> as does unetbootin
<rixon> so why is it officially recommended?
<rixon> haha
<rixon> I've never had trouble before with unetbootin
<davmor2> rixon: because there aren't any decent burners on windows
<rixon> well that's just an inti-windows statement that isn't even true. I've not had problems doing this before with unetbootin or even the windows 7 installer disk imaging tool
<rixon> *anti
<diddledan> just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you
<diddledan> it may be perceived as "anti windows" but it is still accurate
<davmor2> rixon: no it's true you can get decent burns if you go out and install them, the better ones are paid for which is something we can't then recommend so we have to recommend free applications that do the job.  Those are obviously 2 that do it.
<davmor2> rixon: What I mean is the one that is built in doesn't copy isos to pendrives well or we would recommend that one
<rixon> ... again that doesn't mean that "there aren't any decent burners on windows"
<rixon> just because they're not built in
<ali1234> wat
<ali1234> windows has a built in iso burner that works fine
<diddledan> ali1234: burning iso to usbstick
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> well then i agree, windows does not have any decent tool for this
<davmor2> ali1234: yeah burns isos to cd's fine not so good at transferring them to usb pendrive hence my statement that windows burner sucks
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but it isn't designed to do that
<rixon> ... again I wasn't suggesting that the windows built in ISO burner was the tool for the job. just because other software isn't built in to windows doesn't mean it doesn't exist
<ali1234> rixon: the real reason why unetbootin is "officially" recommended is because the docs are painfully out of date
<rixon> you're saying there aren't any
<ali1234> the isos didn't used to be bootable without mangling
<rixon> ali1234: I've installed 15.04 and 15.10 at home with unetbootin with no problems
<ali1234> so we had to use unetbootin even on linux
<rixon> it just seems to screw up this 14.04 image
<ali1234> then around 2012 the isos were switched to hybridiso which do not require any mangling
<ali1234> so now unetbootin maybe works, maybe it doesn't
<rixon> hm
<ali1234> where does /root/.bashrc come from on a debian system? it doesn't match /etc/skel/.bashrc
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-25
<moggers57> thank goodness you can fall back to bash on windows... :-P http://www.infoworld.com/article/3111928/microsoft-windows/windows-10-cumulative-update-kb-3176934-breaks-powershell.html
<ball> Anyone have a preferred line of SSDs for Linux desktop use?
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning brobostigon
<BigRedS> Goooood Morning!
<brobostigon> morning knightwise and BigRedS
 * knightwise is reading up on SDN
<SuperMatt> a
<SuperMatt> oops
<SuperMatt> morning
<diddledan> no JamesTait day of the day?
<popey> HOW WILL WE FUNCTION!??!
 * m0nkey_ is happy.
<m0nkey_> After a BIOS update, XOrg no longer hangs for 30 seconds on boot!
<m0nkey_> Now it only hangs 5 seconds, I can live with that.
<davmor2> diddledan: Happy Thursday and happy burgers, kiss and make up, whisky Sour Day
<davmor2> diddledan: I'm still new to deciding which to pick :D
<davmor2> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkT5J2C8IVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pgPq4FGWfk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV1HWA8cmjA
<davmor2> diddledan: you happier now?
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> don't you hate that everything controversial gets termed "foo-gate" or "bar-gate" with the gate suffix based on presumably the association that water-gate affair was about a controversial water-based story and nothing to do with the watergate hotel
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: gate-gate?
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: omg
<davmor2> diddledan: a gate can swing either way though with the right hinge so editors have an out if it is a gate ;)
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: I improved it - gateÂ²
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: surely it should be gate2.0 if it is improved
<diddledan> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/22/microsoft_hololens_hpu/
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/REGlONALDUN/status/768593218640412677
<diddledan> looks like iOS got a patch for three zero-days: https://motherboard.vice.com/read/government-hackers-iphone-hacking-jailbreak-nso-group
<moggers57> 3 down, nsa knows how many more to go... :-P
<davmor2> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaAI3jI7uCc
<daftykins> diddledan: seen the growing evidence for the iPhone 6 and 6s design flaw they're refusing to acknowledge? it'll be a class action lawsuit before long :)
<moggers57> they're touching it wrong
<daftykins> ooh yes
<moggers57> apple will anounce a free stylus for all iphone 6 users to touch it the right way... :-P
<moggers57> mmmm, lamb...
<daftykins> yes please, in a curry
<daftykins> http://www.tig.gg/l41364-Samsung-55H6400-55-inch-Full-HD-1080p-Freeview-HD-Smart-3D-WiFi-LED-TV.php
<daftykins> wowzer
 * moggers57 wonders when people start mounting screens over windows and running pleasent scenes instead of grey skies
<daftykins> :>
<moggers57> or display aquariams
<moggers57> or a live feed from iss
<diddledan> mr robert time
<diddledan> lamb curry sounds like a plan!
<daftykins> i just had another Dafty Kins from NY this time sign me up to hear of his home security system order - with full phone number and address, so i called him up :D
<daftykins> "wow, you're from where?!"
<moggers57> hello, daftykins? this is daftykins... just ringing to let you know that you haven't invented time travel... *click*
<daftykins> how'd you know!?
<moggers57> this is not my first temporal incursion...
<daftykins> i put in the replacement TV aerial splitter at this clients today, the one that none of the TV aerial folks would call me back about doing
<daftykins> so i take it in, i've put tape around the cable going into a test room so i put it on immediately and test just that room out of the 7 it's being split to... yep works fine, sky remote up in the test room controls the box in the basement
<daftykins> go back down, plug them all in - damn, it's broken it again
<daftykins> eventually i identify one room that is somehow trashing the feature for the whole house o0
<diddledan> mr robot is dark this week
<daftykins> turn up the contrast
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/20o11 time for more Deus Ex \o/
<diddledan> I love apple's patch descriptions: "A memory corruption issue was addressed through improved memory handling."
<diddledan> like "it was bad. now it's not."
<diddledan> "improved" memory handling sounds like they just gave it a spitshine rather than actually fixing anything
<moggers57> do not look behind the curtain
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-26
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> almost finished hand of god:)]
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Women's Equality Day! ð
<BigRedS> Goooooooood morning!
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juTeHsKPWhY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOUqQt3Kg0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBmMU_iwe6U  think that covers it
<davmor2> JamesTait: this was my selection from yesterday I covered all 3 as I didn't know which you'd select and diddledan was complaining that you hadn't given a day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkT5J2C8IVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pgPq4FGWfk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV1HWA8cmjA
<knightwise> Arg
<knightwise> I HATE VVS
<knightwise> (vertical video syndrome)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<directhex> knightwise: the thing about VVS... is the majority of viewers in 2016 are viewing on a phone with a vertical display
<popey> I like that youtube now does that properly, when you press 'full screen'
<Seeker`> directhex: with a vertical display an a method of detecting when the phone is in landscape orientation
<diddledan> popey has a fascination with nipples, eh? (ref: the Ubuntu Podcast :-p)
<diddledan> nice retrospective of early web days
<diddledan> my own story is - I first used "the web" before I even had "the internet" :-p I used Web Pages off PCPlus Cover CDs and made my own web pages. Finally got dialup in 1997/8 and used FreeServe 0800 for 24/7 connectivity with a 2hour enforced cut-off (they would kick you off after 2 hours so I'd set smoothwall to automatically redial) the family phone was
<diddledan> unusable for around 4 years until broadband arrived :-D
<Seeker`> diddledan: sounds familiar. FreeServe too. Biggest file I could possibly download was about 13MB because of that 2 hour limit
<diddledan> Seeker`: yup, I discovered the joys of getright download manager
<diddledan> it's still available and their site hasn't been updated in over 10 years: http://getright.com/
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: hello
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, hi
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-27
<daftykins> where's the late night gang?
<penguin42> sleeping I think
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cvsnpzarunb5esm/AAAtt48f0jOb3kRhnMZ1G00ja?dl=0
<daftykins> morning sir - got a few N64s together for a friends stag do tomorrow night
<daftykins> no cartridge blowing for me, i've run some IPA over them all ;)
<penguin42> that sounds unusually civilised for a stag do
<daftykins> hehe - it's after daytime activities, drinks at the private venue of the royal yacht club
 * moggers57 is just in after been at a wedding reception
<daftykins> ah did they see the piggy bank or did you have to leave it in a pile?
<moggers57> i dropped that in a few days ago, they liked it
<moggers57> won't be short of a few coins for the meter... :-P
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> phew, all consoles tested, bagged up and ready to go
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> pip pip
<brobostigon> meep
 * SuperEngineer thinks it is quiet here today.  Enjoy your bank hol traffic jams folks ;-)
<brobostigon> i think if it stays dry, i might visit the pub, :)
<SuperEngineer> good plan!
<SuperEngineer> [have 1 for me]
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> traffic jam? I like jam
<diddledan> the red arras were here today
<penguin42> where's that?
<zmoylan-pi> if they happen in the mornings they should be traffic marmalades
<zmoylan-pi> the italian display team were here a few weeks back.  they fly a very close low formation.  very impressive
<foobarry> google searches are struggling, other sites aren't. weird
<foobarry> hmm google UK
<penguin42> foobarry: working here
<zmoylan-pi> google ireland working here grand
<foobarry> yep, google.ie works fine
<foobarry> co.uk hanging
<penguin42> foobarry: I seem to be resolving to lhr25s10-in-f3 on a ping of www.google.co.uk
<zmoylan-pi> if google were having trouble it would be news _everywhere_, no?
<foobarry> 64 bytes from lhr25s01-in-f3.1e100.net (216.58.213.67): icmp_seq=4 ttl=55 time=23.2 ms
<foobarry> ping works
<zmoylan-pi> not for apple it didn't... :-P
<penguin42> hmm, so we're same datacentre
<foobarry> it could be routing form talktalk thats the issue
<MartijnVdS> heh, 1e100. A googol
<zmoylan-pi> they took bings money... :-)
<foobarry> can't google it though
<foobarry> just remembered other search engines are available lol
<foobarry> co.uk working better now
<zmoylan-pi> i use startpage and duckduckgo 99% of the time
<foobarry> maybe not
<foobarry> does this site work for anyone ? https://my.talktalk.co.uk/servicecentre
<popey> no
<popey> Connecting to my.talktalk.co.uk (my.talktalk.co.uk)|107.162.134.61|:443... failed: Connection refused.
<foobarry> bank holiday, network guys all off on hols
<foobarry> i haven't read my work email in 2 weeks. feels great
<penguin42> that's exactly what the servers are thinking to themselves....
<MooDoo> nice :) I've been off for a week, just read my work email so no surprises when i get in.
<foobarry> i never received good news in a work email
<foobarry> ever
<Gorsofa> Like totally               https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1617501
<foobarry> if you look after systems then its always bad if you get mail
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1617501 in OpenShot Video Editor "Openshot is totally buggy" [Undecided,New]
<foobarry> gahhh keep hitting ctrl-k in browser to search...muscle memory is strong . might have to edit /etc/hosts to redirect google
<penguin42> foobarry: Where is your google trying to connect to/
<foobarry> uk
<penguin42> more specifically?
<foobarry> host www.google.co.uk
<foobarry> www.google.co.uk has address 172.217.23.3
<foobarry> www.google.co.uk has IPv6 address 2a00:1450:4009:808::2003
<penguin42> foobarry: But is that where it's actually trying to connect to?
<foobarry> ohhh... its chrome
<foobarry> firefox is fine
<penguin42> foobarry: That's connecting to that IP fine for me
<foobarry> time to slap chrome
<foobarry> i heard firefox is getting codecs to watch amazon prime soon
<penguin42> foobarry: I'd be tempted to tcpdump/netstat something to see wth it's doing
<MartijnVdS> they have the thing to watch Netflix now I think
<MartijnVdS> if Amazon uses the same "DRM enabling engine" it should also work
<foobarry> pondering reading man in the high castle after watching it on telly
<foobarry> should probably disregard the illiterate reviews added recently by couch potatoes
<foobarry> somebody sounds upset that it had nothing to do with the tv show, as if it's the book's fault
<zmoylan-pi> whenever i got a work email it was 50/50 it was looking for information i had already emailed them but outlooks search was so bad they couldn't find it...
<zmoylan-pi> i'll never want a window seat again... https://twitter.com/FlightAlerts777/status/769605144078127106
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: front fell off?
<zmoylan-pi> non regulation duct tape holding it together
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-28
<daftykins> aah, stag do complete - everyone survived
<penguin42> just?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> thought i was going to have to harbour a drunkard but it seems he started moving at the last minute
<mapps> hi;D
<daftykins> mornin'
<daftykins> 2nd anniversary of my near death, today
<mapps> 7O_o
<daftykins> must sleep!
<mapps> daftykins, still around?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> weeeeeeeeeeeeeee!  f1 on tv time [reainy bank hol weekend, don't care now]
<MartijnVdS> oh yeah! F1!
 * SuperEngineer wonders if the VdS in MartijnVdS should be Vroom da Speed ;-)
<foobarry> any good sites have proof of concept of adnroid vulnerabilities? want to root my own tablet that the vendor has stopped supporting
<foobarry> (running 5.1)
<Nokaji> Hi, I need greater magnification on my image proggies (gThumb, Gwenview etc), i.e. zooming stops when the slider reaches the end - How do I achieve this or similar?
<popey> foobarry: hudl2?
<Nokaji> I knew my question was too hard.
<foobarry> popey: yes
<foobarry> i know the bootloader is locked but at least it must be possible to get root escalation via an exploit
<zmoylan-pi> when you have to wait for the hackers to own your own stuff...
<foobarry> others are looking into flipping the secure boot bit but i suspect the tech knowhow among hudl2 users i not as high as the rest of the modding community
<foobarry> even worse, tesco sent out a 5.1 update just as they abandoned the tablet. previously we had root.
<foobarry> i need to turn off the loud BONG when it starts up
<foobarry> even having headphones in the port don't disable the noise. only changing the ogg file as root fixes it
<zmoylan-pi> great for when you're doing a system restart at 4am
<penguin42> waking your misses with a loud bong?
<foobarry> exactly
<foobarry> not wife friendly
<foobarry> there are priv escalation vulnerabilities known but unsure if there are known exploits
<popey> sam barely plays with the hudl2 here now, he's got one of my old nexus 4's
<popey> so I might start hacking on it then
<zmoylan-pi> they grow so fickle so young... :-)
<popey> heh
<popey> he wanted something more portable for playing Pokemon Go
<brobostigon> my nexus4 is my with cm13 is my phone, it cant be beaten i dont think.
 * zmoylan-pi had been humming this all day... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHIo6qwJarI
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-21
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> shhhhhhh, if you stay very quiet and still, monday may not notice you are there....
<brobostigon> :)
 * brobostigon tip toes to get some coffee
<zmoylan-pi> use a wooden spoon to stir.... :-P
<brobostigon> that may make the job abit difficult.
<ali1234> currently bamboozling three live chat support with leftfield questions
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> http://i.imgur.com/noXKCHj.png
<zmoylan-pi> they're just been a font of wisdom... :-P
<ali1234> so they gave me a 1GB data booster that lasts 1 month, and told me to try registering again in a month
<zmoylan-pi> you may only download 1 distro.... which distro will it be.... :-)
<ali1234> actually they told me 48 hours, then 30 minutes
<ali1234> but given that the registration page has been broken since last week...
<foobarry> sad that i wasn't able to go oggcamp.
<foobarry> maybe next year, if there is one
<foobarry> however i am doing this today with my raspberry pi's http://imgur.com/a/xG0Fg
<zmoylan-pi> do the lights dim when you fire up the 4 pi? :-)
<foobarry> they are hanging off an anker USB station
<foobarry> there's a magic command i need to run to see if they are under voltage hold on
<foobarry> temperature jumped 10 degrees
<ali1234> why tho
<foobarry> why make a pi cluster?
<zmoylan-pi> to feel the power...
<zmoylan-pi> till the vax you ordered off ebay for 1p arrives in the post...
<foobarry> for demonstration and teaching purposes. principles demonstrated on a small scale pi cluster are the same as on a 10,000 core cluster.
<foobarry> its using the same job scheduler and submission scripts
<ali1234> couldnt you achieve the same thing with some virtual machines?
<foobarry> i have done that with vagrant but could only really do 1 master and 2 compute nodes
<foobarry> until your machine gets sad.
<foobarry> 10 raspberry pi's are also a lot more tangible when teaching/demonstrating
<foobarry> submit a task and then point to which one is running your job
<foobarry> or submit an mpi job across multi-nodes
<qteyetrwrwgf> what mixer is the default in Ubuntu for pulse?
<qteyetrwrwgf> name
<qteyetrwrwgf> libmatemixer or pavucontrol?
<qteyetrwrwgf> or any else?
<qteyetrwrwgf> The same problem and what do i don't know. But alsa not see microphone. Widespread problem? Quiet sound of the microphone. http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=246985.0 on ru irc 7 people are "sleeping" or busy with something. Need more tests, how the microphone works not only with Raltek sound chip. U-mate 17.04 64. Maybe i should open a bug report on the Ubuntu website about it? I think may be time to create a bug report. 3 years
<qteyetrwrwgf> is not short time. Sound Creative
<qteyetrwrwgf> in Ubuntu-Mate libmatemixer0 default mixer
<qteyetrwrwgf> on ru website this not i write
<qteyetrwrwgf> U-mate 17.04 64
<daftykins> go to the main #ubuntu for support
<foobarry> tell them the name of your laptop
<foobarry> alsamixer usualyl shows my stuff alothugh i have to tab along to find it
<diddledan> just under 5 hours: https://www.android.com/eclipse/
<daftykins> i'm watching that too :>
<foobarry> is github suffering today?
<foobarry> cannot connect
<diddledan> I had a timeout earlier
<foobarry> connecting to github.com...
<daftykins> http://downdetector.com/status/github
<diddledan> https://status.github.com/
<daftykins> heh i see a colossal flop
<foobarry> solar ellipsis
<foobarry> host command not resolving stuff in /etc/hosts. any ideas?
<foobarry> hmm maybe not supposed to. might be red herring
<daftykins> check the priority in /etc/nsswitch.conf , reopen the term and check you got the two params the right way around in it?
<foobarry> https://serverfault.com/questions/498500/why-does-the-host-command-not-resolve-entries-in-etc-hosts
<foobarry> reckons i need getent hosts instead
<foobarry> trying to solve a problem that occurred after a reboot :(
<daftykins> come to think i've never used 'host'
<arsenip> 'getent hosts xyz' will check as the system would, dictated by nsswitch
 * diddledan nips arsenip's arse
<diddledan> I love that nickname for punniness
<diddledan> joe ressington discovered a weird thing in the loo at oggcamp (swearing ahead) : https://twitter.com/JoeRessington/status/899687318902026240
<diddledan> daftykins: are you proud? I warned of the swearing and everything!
<daftykins> good boy!
<diddledan> and the sun was blocked by the moon today: https://twitter.com/make5calls/status/899688381612924930
<daftykins> on the NASA livestream they keep emphasising that it's occuring over US soil... not quite sure why that's such a big deal to them
<diddledan> of course you can't have a good eclipse without https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcOxhH8N3Bo
<diddledan> it's important that it occurs over america because OMFGMURRICA!
<diddledan> I still love this version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsgWUq0fdKk
<diddledan> google stream url: https://youtu.be/PiW2k-80Ruo
<daftykins> insta-hide chat :>
<daftykins> diddledan: oreo!
<diddledan> and that wasn't a surprise much
<daftykins> ikr
<diddledan> my stream died :-(
<daftykins> real surprise will be if they say 'available today' on all the old devices, or make us wait
<daftykins> yeah same here
<daftykins> did you see the statistic at all on the NASA livestream of the eclipse? :D
<diddledan> nope
<daftykins> "NASA traffic currently accounting for 87% of all federal internet traffic" XD
<diddledan> wow
<daftykins> anywho yip stream is broken and just repeating the last few seconds
<daftykins> now it says it's over
<daftykins> so that was it? :>
<diddledan> apparently https://www.android.com/oreo is supposed to be up, but it 404s for me
<diddledan> aah, there we go
<diddledan> it's up now
<daftykins> so it is
<diddledan> omg, they've invented a hyperlink thing: API that allows you to share files across the Internet via web links.
<diddledan> like totally next century
<daftykins> *gasp*
<diddledan> so.. there's absolutely nothing on that oreo page that says when or how it is available
<daftykins> i'm currently going through the wikipedia article on Nougat to see what happened back then, but sounds like it'll be a slow trickle over the coming fortnight - unless you just jump on the developer preview now
<daftykins> i usually factory reset for a new major release, to avoid quirks
<daftykins> diddledan: "The company also confirmed that builds for Pixel and Nexus 5X / 6P have entered carrier testing, meaning over-the-air rollout should be happening âsoon,â including updates for Nexus Player and Pixel C devices."
<diddledan> I'm fixing yo turds: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=786581
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 786581 in general "libpeas builds loaders path incorrectly when using environment variable" [Normal,New]
<diddledan> wtfrak: https://twitter.com/VeraMBergen/status/899748757712982016
<diddledan> insanity
<daftykins> diddledan: they won't pay you!
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> now this is a perfect recreation of the solar eclipse: http://68.media.tumblr.com/f2cee8213bfb6bf568238025bb02704e/tumblr_ouy6jpztsH1sshj5wo1_500.gif
<daftykins> uuuh, hrmmm
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-22
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Gargoyle> mornin
<brobostigon> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning
<foobarry> grrrrr
<foobarry> spent all morning trying to fix an issue
<foobarry> i have that certain kind of headache
<diplo> Anyone alive in here today ?
<diddledan> nope
<diplo> Proliant dl380 g5, ever played with one
<diplo> Want to stick a large sata drive in one, 3 spare baysLooks like I have to buy complete caddy
<diplo> Don't have server locally
<zmoylan-pi> i seem to remember many moons ago they had spare rails screwed to inside of pc.... was many moons ago however...
<diplo> yeah this is in headoffice, want to install a drive for storage, may go back to usb idea at this rate
<diddledan> it might have blank caddies in there
<diddledan> i.e. remove blank caddy, insert drive into black caddy, replace caddy
<diplo> I've asked the lad to have a look
<zmoylan-pi> i'd look for the pdf of the unit in case it shows were they are located
<zmoylan-pi> they can sneak them in were they won't be spotted unless you know precisely what you are looking for
<diplo> He's found a caddy in the office so hopefully save the cost of buying that
<zmoylan-pi> i once ripped out an unremoveable bay holder on a dell only to find the quick release instructions embossed on bottom side of the unit were it could only be read upside down with head inside case
<diplo> Right, bought some drives, hope I've bought the right ones :D
 * diddledan drools over the spinning rust
<diddledan> I wonder how long till SSD is the same price as HDD per gigabyte
<diplo> I guess a few more years yet ?
<diddledan> not until after 2021 according to the article I just read on the register from may
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/Tanner_Pfaff/status/900044997759823872
<diddledan> apparently they're fake tho
<daftykins> just been to a south coast bay - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTJrtLeHUto
<diddledan> daftykins: that's disgusting!!
<daftykins> few snaps too - http://imgur.com/a/5vciM
<daftykins> the size of a twister ice cream is definitely disgusting :P
<diddledan> ice cream too? you're a sick sonuva
<daftykins> two no less, but don't tell anyone
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> (needed refreshment after carrying the bike up and down stairs around the cliffs)
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> Brian Kernighan (of C language fame) on "successful language design": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg4U4r_AgJU
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-23
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> https://www.amazon.com/HRH-Functional-Shortcuts-Keyboard-Silicone/dp/B01MFXLBO9
<foobarry> this looks great. mac only though :(
<daftykins> i think if you've got to stare, it's already too slow
<zmoylan-pi> i've always wanted my super expensive laptop to look like a zx spectrum :-D
<arsenip> that's cool
 * arsenip has a mac
<foobarry> remember the Elite carboard overlay?
<daftykins> nope!
<zmoylan-pi> i bought it on budget label, no overlay
<zmoylan-pi> but i do remember people complaining about it falling apart from a lot of use...
<diplo> Anyone run LetOS at all ?
<diplo> Lenovo thin client app
<diplo> OS even
<foobarry> nop
<daftykins> had to look that one up :>
<diplo> hah me too!
<diplo> One of our customers has bought some and then asked, can we do this with them :)
<diplo> Dunno, you tell us?!?
<foobarry> do you have to buy the management suite?
<foobarry> Terminals running in a zero client configuration are easily managed centrally; either through this DNS environment or through LTM, whichever should the system administrator so desire.
<foobarry> maybe not
<diplo> You don't have to, I didn't when I ran the wyse
<foobarry> its a bit odd when the top link on google isn't even lenovo
<diplo> but basically what I want to know is what OS it's running and whether its easy enough to install other software, first googles are not promising, we use certain F keys to do certain things with our software
<diplo> I just want to tell the customer to F off, you bought it, your issue
<diplo> But I'll get overruled no doubt
<zmoylan-pi> oooooh, https://support.lenovo.com/ie/en/solutions/hf004001
<diplo> thanks, found an admin guide pdf, quick scan of that now
<zmoylan-pi> seems the linux variant gets as much space as the windows embedded variant which is nice to see
<diplo> I honestly don't think they understand what they've bought
<diplo> hese packages will be in a squashfs file type
<zmoylan-pi> some boss at a show got wined and dined and woke up the next day with a receipt in his back pocket...
<diplo> These people are a bit tight, saw a PC for Â£200~ and thought yeah I'll have that
<diplo> We sell NUCs running Linux, but need some other software to connect to ours, but probably Â£300+
<daftykins> hmm NUCs are a bit dear given the extra requirement of screens etc
<daftykins> i'd definitely agree on first glance it looked wholly unsuitable for a custom Linux to be thrown on, if that's the idea
<zmoylan-pi> considering they roll android into all those tvs you'd think someone would be making thin client option
<daftykins> just need to sideload the APK to a remote desktop tech and it's almost done :D
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/a/ln9KV waiting for the unicorn HAT LED display to round it off
<daftykins> haha
<diplo> Customers want small daftykins - seems to be willing to pay for them + our costs on top - then again customers aren't the brightest
<foobarry> https://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/raspberry-pi/products/unicorn-hat-hd
<daftykins> diplo: what about low spec laptops though? as much as you lose upgradability
<daftykins> must admit i have no idea of the requirements :>
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, volunteering information in those circumstances puts you on the line when anything fails no matter what it is
<daftykins> just had a meet with the builders at my house, they're gonna resume work next Tuesday :D insurance adjuster demons slain at last
<zmoylan-pi> shhhh!! don't say that out loud!! :-)
<daftykins> :D
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/a/ah9i1
<zmoylan-pi> the cables are taking more space than the pi...
<daftykins> spaghetti!
<zmoylan-pi> it's been blessed by his noodly appendage...
<czajkowski> *yawns*
<czajkowski> aloha
<daftykins> ah 'lo stranger \o
<ali1234> foobarry: you should get pi zeros and zerostems and a USB hub to clean up that cable mess
<ali1234> https://zerostem.io/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/zeros-in-hub.jpg
<nhandler> Hello Ubuntu UK folks. We will be holding our first ever freenode #live conference (https://freenode.live/) at the end of October in Bristol. We would love to have Ubuntu UK members in attendance, giving talks, and helping to organize/run a booth. If you are interested, or know of other people/groups that might be, feel free to follow the directions on the website or reach out to me (nhandler@freenode.net) directly.
<ali1234> clustering like this is the reason i designed it :)
<czajkowski> daftykins: always here, just up the walls
<czajkowski> nhandler: ola!
<nhandler> Hi czajkowski :)
<daftykins> i blame that diddledan for that ;)
<czajkowski> daftykins: no it's always blame popey
<daftykins> ah very good
<m0nkey_> You guys can breath easy once again. I have left the UK and returned home.
<daftykins> phew, i'll call off the team watching the north coast of the island
<daftykins> m0nkey_: how was the trip?
<m0nkey_> It was good
<m0nkey_> Sun burnt, nearly knocked out, all good though :)
<daftykins> you got in a fight? :P
<m0nkey_> No, wife was closing the boot of the rental car, I was still under it.
<daftykins> sheesh!
<m0nkey_> Profanity was abundant.
<daftykins> and i'll bet you had some choice words for her, too ;)
<m0nkey_> It was an accident. She felt pretty bad about it too.
<daftykins> wow Postman Pat is going all-electric
<diddledan> m0nkey_: gives you both an excuse to cuddle to reassure each other that you're all good
<diddledan> cuddles ftw
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> so a small emp device will prevent the post van doing a runner after ninjaing a 'while you were out' notice in your letterbox...
<daftykins> excellent!
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-24
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<davmor2> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> hello. how can i avoid requiring in python "from blah import blah2"
<foobarry> i just want import blah2
<foobarry> i added the module to the site-packages of the virtualenv
<SuperMatt> I've stopped programming in python and moved everything to go
<SuperMatt> no need for virtual envs or anything like that
<brobostigon> http://www.unixstickers.com/stickers/unix_os_related_sticker/geek-inside-sahped-sticker :)
<diplo> foobarry: I believe you can just do import blah, you'd just reference it blah.blah2 when calling it instead of blah2() on its own
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMatt> HowDoo MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> :)
<ali1234> foobarry: diplo is correct. it's all about namespacing. blah is the module and blah2 is an object inside that module
<ali1234> you can also say "from blah import *" but that is generally a bad idea since it defeats the purpose of namespacing
<ali1234> namespaces can also be nested
<diplo> Yeah never done the import * as it may conflict with other imports, or I've worried it has. ali1234 explains it much better than me though :)
<foobarry> the scripts already have import blah but i'm finding i need to specify "from meh" first or it doesn't pick it up
<diplo> Not sure I've had that before, modules not setup correctly maybe or not declared correctly when calling them is the only things I can think of, no python pro though :)
<foobarry> i've worked around it manually in a branch until my python guy returns :D
<diplo> :)
<foobarry> installing debian MATE on eeepc 701 :D
<CoderEurope> garethes' owes: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2017/aug/24/should-i-buy-my-eight-year-old-son-laptop-raspberry-pi-games?
<ali1234> that's hilarious
<foobarry> wait..why does he want a laptop?
<foobarry> doesn't actually state the use-case
<ali1234> "no skrub. buy a gamer PC"
<foobarry> most home computer desks are worse ergonomically than a laptop at the dining table
<foobarry> i get a feeling this was just a fake article to get sponsored clucks
<foobarry> oh no , disgusting eater is slurping and crunching again
<foobarry> how can a grown man make noise eating pistachios that is heard 40ft away?
<diplo> That would be my dad too, it annoys the living hell out of me
<foobarry> he eats with his mouth open?
<foobarry> this guys an animal
<diplo> Yup, as does my sister but I rarely see her. My kids have a go at them too, doesn't stop them doing it.
<foobarry> :S
<diplo> I can't remember him doing it when I was a kid though
<diplo> Maybe I just didn't take any notice
<foobarry> i have misonophobia i think
<foobarry> basically it annoys the heck out of me
<foobarry> and i get murderous thought
<diplo> I do too! Lets kill them together
<diplo> :P
<foobarry> also have 2 loud howards
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfuxPhtU1Hk
<ali1234> firefox 55 is really crashy :(
<diplo> I've not found it to much myself on this box, but running 56 b1 on my windows box which is more my primary
<ali1234> It's crashed like 10 times this morning. i installed it yesterday
<ali1234> also google maps = insta crash every time, even with HWA disabled
<diplo> I'll try that now
<ali1234> i suspect it is because i am using the nvidia beta driver with vulkan... but disabling HWA should fix that so idk
<ali1234> also it never caused a problem before
<diplo> Ah I'm on intel graphics, but yeah fine here on googly maps
<foobarry> 6 years ago today i bought a hp touchpad. so facebook tells me
 * zmoylan-pi cues wonderyears grainy shaky footage of foobarry opening his hp touchpad...
<foobarry> its quite blurry due to potatocam
<zmoylan-pi> in it's defenese it's not vertical phonecam...
<MooDoo>  /quit
<MooDoo> oops
<diplo> hah
<foobarry> nice try
<foobarry> oh he did :|
<diplo> Mount a share as cifs with a folder full of csvs, get a prompt to run / display blah rather than opening Libre Calc ( which is the default app already selected ) yet via smb:// it opens as expected
<diplo> Need cifs to be able to attach files from share directly into thunderbird, 12 year old bug
<diplo> My google fu is failing if anyone has any pointers
<foobarry> can i not download a video from google photos? weird
<foobarry> hmm maybe its on timelapse
<zmoylan-pi> it's to teach you basic hacking skills to find extensions to download videos of the web... we'll make a hacker of you yet
<foobarry> https://goo.gl/photos/X9winwW6zigAPWyb7 can u see this?
<zmoylan-pi> 22s video of a bunch of pis... unlogged into google on vivaldi on linux
<foobarry> and the magic screen
<diplo> youtube-dl download it ?
<zmoylan-pi> flushing out any photosensitive epileptics...
<foobarry> this screen is amazing
<foobarry> LED display
<diddledan> managed to sneakily find it with some hacking:
<diddledan> https://r3---sn-aigllnzy.googlevideo.com/videoplayback?id=94050d6b0ed65fde&itag=18&source=picasa&begin=0&requiressl=yes&mm=30&mn=sn-aigllnzy&ms=nxu&mv=u&pl=41&sc=yes&ei=Y_CeWeajFMfKVsLwizg&mime=video/mp4&lmt=1503587507977246&mt=1503588308&ip=2001:8b0:17b0:d4d:21da:fda1:f825:b8d4&ipbits=48&expire=1503595651&sparams=ip,ipbits,expire,id,itag,source,requiressl,mm,mn,ms,mv,pl,sc,ei,mime,lmt&signature=4B683BC1F4405AE9E7
<diddledan> 2B319CA69A3E1D1A105F33.6BE9F485CB9222A3B94FC49416D4FD9E589BCDF7&key=ck2
<diddledan> ergh
<diddledan> evil
<diddledan> let me shorten that
<diddledan> go.bwlh.at/2wBC66I
<diddledan> aah, you can download with the "three-vertical-dots menu" top-right
<diddledan> what happens if I click "join"?
<foobarry> ah its just appeared
<foobarry> must have been processing. wasn't there before
<diddledan> impressive display for a 16x16 pixie
<foobarry> and has its own arm chip so offloads any compute work
<diddledan> arm chips end up in everything
<diddledan> like "you want to write to disks" gets answered with "ok, that cpu you have. make it send the data to this bus address where an HBA which is actaully another different computer will pick it up and do stuff with it and send it to individual disks which are also computers ..."
<foobarry> the python to do all the shiny stuff is about 10 lines liong
<diddledan> it seems that every individual component is what would be considered a complete computer in the past
<foobarry> plus a py module
<ali1234> all the magic is in the STM32 firmware
<foobarry> its quite cheap too
<diddledan> peripherals and stuff you plug into computing devices these days are exactly the same as the "Windows PC Card for your Mac" that got sold for PPC macs in the 90s
<diddledan> in concept, I mean. doing a complete pc to do the job that your complete pc can't do
<ali1234> computers would be hilariously slow if that wasn't the case
<diddledan> yes, but we've moved on from ASICs to using general purpose cpus to do the job that the general purpose cpu can't do
<ali1234> extreme example: the zx80 could only execute instructions during the vertical blank period
<ali1234> either that, or display a blank screen :)
<diddledan> i.e. we're doing turtles all the way down now
<diddledan> nothing is application-specific anymore
<ali1234> that's not what ASIC means, but okay
<diddledan> ASIC = Application Specific Integrated Circuit
<ali1234> the FTL controller in an SSD is pretty application-specific
<ali1234> in any case, it's not really a new trend. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_1541
<davmor2> man it is funny when you add email to fail2ban till you realise the quantity is dos'ing your server :D
<diddledan> davmor2: ouch
<diddledan> davmor2: sounds like someone's hitting you hard?
<davmor2> diddledan: turned off email it is fine now :D
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> is that like "cutting off your nose in order to spite your face?"
<davmor2> diddledan: it's the fact the email consists of getting a whois on all banned ip's, I can look at the log still and manually whois but I got 1416 emails in under 30seconds
<davmor2> mostly china
<diddledan> I really feel sorry for the majority of chinese people who are decent folk because of their association with "chinese hackers all the time!" means many westerners decide to outright block the entire country
<davmor2> diddledan: I think fail2ban is doing that for me ;)
<diddledan> haha
<davmor2> diddledan: first 20 and last 20, 39 are from china 1 from indonesia
<diddledan> jeez. I vote we block the entire chinese ip range
<diddledan> oh wait
<diddledan> damn
<diddledan> don't you hate when your idealism disappears in a puff of smoke?!
<davmor2> diddledan: funny how the GreatFireWall  doesn't block the spam and bots coming out right ;)
<diddledan> that's a good point actually. they're more interested in ingress than egress I guess
<daftykins> haha Samsung borked a firmware update for a bunch of Smart TVs, leaving them stuck on one channel with no remote functionality XD
<diddledan> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> smart tvs; dumb updates
<diddledan> the problem is smart devices are programmed by idiots - the devices would be fine if we didn't keep tinkering
<daftykins> Tizen is meant to have some of the worst code known :D
<daftykins> no idea if the affected TVs actually run that, though
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's more controlled my management who wants cheap and fast than bad programmers
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-25
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> diddledan: 9098 emails from fail2ban in 24hours who knew my little home server was so popular in China :D
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> anyone know a good source of 8 bit arcade/geek style gifs and pngs?
<foobarry> rather than HD stylised versions which google seems full of
<foobarry> just doing google image search for 16x16 pics atm
<ali1234> there's a website dedicated to ripping graphics from old 8 and 16 bit games, and then making gifs out of them
<ifm> @search feynman
<ali1234> i can't remember what it is called but let me see if i can find it
<ali1234> foobarry: http://spritedatabase.net/
<foobarry> cool thanks ali1234
<foobarry> trying out the new solus release
<foobarry> the max brightness doesn't seem as bright as other OS :|
<ali1234> that ubuntu gnome shell stuff is looking really really good
<klystron> hi is there anyone who can help on log files
<klystron> 18:03 <klystron> 18:01 <klystron> my question is this if I have a webcam or imaging device connected to a computer which can control the device can I see all log information that takes place in relation to time stamped/communications and access and storing images using a log file?
<klystron> 18:03 <klystron> 18:02 <klystron> i.e. all process and transactions that take place between the computer and the device?
<klystron> 18:03 <Drone`> Please register an account Â« /msg nickserv help register Â» then try joining #ubuntu again with Â« /join #ubuntu Â»
<klystron> hi is there anyone who can help on log files
<klystron> 18:03 <klystron> 18:01 <klystron> my question is this if I have a webcam or imaging device connected to a computer which can control the device can I see all log information that takes place in relation to time stamped/communications and access and storing images using a log file?
<klystron> 18:03 <klystron> 18:02 <klystron> i.e. all process and transactions that take place between the computer and the device?
<klystron> 18:03 <Drone`> Please register an account Â« /msg nickserv help register Â» then try joining #ubuntu again with Â« /join #ubuntu Â»
<daftykins> time to reg and ask in #ubuntu which is the main support channel
<daftykins> your request doesn't sound particularly kosher...
<ali1234> klystron: you want an audit log for webcam usage?
<diddledan> must.. resist.. suggesting.. concerns.. over.. sexting
<ali1234> or do you want to sniff the raw protocol information?
<ali1234> the latter can be done with https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/usb/usbmon.txt
<brian_> hi is there anyone who can help on log files
<brian_> 18:03 <klystron> 18:01 <klystron> my question is this if I have a webcam or imaging device connected to a computer which can control the device can I see all log information that takes place in relation to time stamped/communications and access and storing images using a log file?
<brian_> 18:03 <klystron> 18:02 <klystron> i.e. all process and transactions that take place between the computer and the device
<ali1234> if you need stuff like audit logs then ubuntu might not be for you. maybe RHEL can do that
<brian_> this is a general question about logs
<ali1234> (18:18:49) ali1234: klystron: you want an audit log for webcam usage?
<ali1234> (18:19:28) ali1234: or do you want to sniff the raw protocol information?
<brian_> yes or any imaging device that is connect
<ali1234> which?
<brian_> what i am trying to establish if you connect and control a device to any linux or window based system there will be a log file time stamped and audit showning all that takes place between the device and computer - yes or no?
<ali1234> not by default no
<brian_> why
<ali1234> because it would fill up your hard drive quite quickly
<ali1234> in the case of a webcam at least
<ali1234> some things are logged, such as connecting devices
<brian_> i was not awar i was in here three times
<daftykins> yes, you seem to be new to IRC?
<brian_> if we are talking about a CT image scanner surely there would be an audit trail as to who logged on when the system was idle and in use
<ali1234> yes, almost certainly
<ali1234> but you specified "any" system
<ali1234> most are not connected to CT scanners
<brian_> a toshiba
<daftykins> phew i thought i was in a hospital then, thank Tux for that
<ali1234> as i said, if you need that kind security and auditability, then RHEL is your best bet
<diddledan> really? mine is connected to one...
<daftykins> diddledan: clearly it's all about ATMs for home connection right now
<brian_> possibley connected to a mac
<ali1234> not all operating system work the same. not even all version of linux
<daftykins> brian_: you're not making a lot of sense.
<ali1234> it makes sense to me
<diddledan> daftykins: you mean an asymmetric teletype modem?
<diddledan> :-p
<brian_> i dont think you understand what i am talking about
<daftykins> diddledan: nah not today
<daftykins> i'm on about being on IRC multiple times, hah
<brian_> if you went into hospital and had a xray or ct scan the scanners would have an audit trial as to its use and by whom
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> that is correct, at least one would hope
<brian_> that audit trail would be the log files
<ali1234> the audit trail would be in the CT scanner software
<brian_> on the controlling computer system or O/S
<ali1234> the operating system itself does not provide it, unless you program it to do so
<diddledan> hint, not many people in here are likely familiar with CT scanners
<ali1234> you odn't need to be familiar with CT scanners to answer this question
<diddledan> if you're not familiar with CT scanners then you can only answer hypotheticals was what I was suggesting
<daftykins> yeah, leaves a bit of room for accuracy
<daftykins> or inaccuracy, rather
<brian_> so that log file be it OEM of the CT scanner computer system or any computer controlling the scanner would have log files as a means of an audit trail
<diddledan> NYANDOWS! https://twitter.com/ctrl_alt_steph/status/901135244400574464
<diddledan> I still love the orange version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XrRwruU8DE
<ali1234> brian_: maybe, but who knows?
<brian_> i would think so for as the files are medical records and a audit trail to se who loged on and when the machine was in use
<ali1234> yes, regulations probably require it
<brian_> in case there was any dispute
<brian_> ok assuming that was the case of the log files providing an audit trail - then next question is can any log files be manually edited?
<ali1234> depends on your definition of "any"
<ali1234> it is possible to design a logging system which cannot be edited without leaving evidence that it has been edited
<diddledan> ^ that
<ali1234> but that does not mean that no log file can be edited
<brian_> so if we take the case of a network and the logs would someone be able to change or edit log files
<diddledan> is this homework we're doing for you perchance?
<brian_> just a network
<diddledan> -_-
<ali1234> no, merely using network logging is not enough to prevent logs from being modified
<daftykins> honestly just get to the point
<brian_> so if a logging system was designed so as not be edited what evidence would it leave if it had been edited?
<brian_> or hacked?
<brian_> would it use a blockchain?
<ali1234> that is one possibility
<brian_> what are the other possibilities?
<ali1234> it depends what type of attacker you want to defend against
<diddledan> ALL the attackers
<ali1234> that is impossible
<diddledan> :-p
<brian_> are they any PEN test that can determine if a lof file has been edited?
<brian_> log...
<ali1234> it depends on the log file
<brian_> name some?
<ali1234> no
<diddledan> this really sounds more and more like homework
<ali1234> also, that's not what a pen test is
<ali1234> if you have a secure logging system then it will have the capability to detect changes right in the software
<brian_> frensic software tools
<brian_> how would or could you determine if a file has been edited which is part of an audit trail?
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/GeekandSundry/status/901139019794333696
<diddledan> RUUUUNNNN
<ali1234> you store a hash of the file somewhere immutable like in a public blockchain, or just on write-only media
<ali1234> then you compare the document to the hash later
<ali1234> if the hash does not match, it has been modified
<brian_> yeah but that requires you to have both #
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> cryptography isnt magic
<brian_> but a blockchain will show if its been  edited further up the transaction - like bitcoins
<ali1234> that statement does not make any sense
<diddledan> a blockchain can only be validated from end-to-end - you can't take a single transaction and say "that's modified" without checking the rest of the chain
<diddledan> blockchain modifications just cause a fork
<brian_> ok blockchains transaction have # from a previous transaction if a transcation is edited or changed the # will be different and will ripple up to all other transaction
<ali1234> you mean blocks
<ali1234> and yes, that is special form of a merkle tree
 * diddledan swoons at the mention of her almighty
<brian_> # from one file or transaction will be combine with another #
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> the way you implement that in a log file is you put the hash of the previous line into the current line, and then hash the current line
<brian_> so if a file transcation is edited that will generate another different #
<ali1234> this is not a new idea by any means. it pre-dates blockchains by a very long time
<ali1234> git also does this
<ali1234> every commit contains the hash of the parent
<ali1234> so you can't modify a commit deep in the history without modifying every following commit
<brian_> so the blockchain further up would show where a transaction or file was edited
<ali1234> something like that
<brian_> ok so in answer to the log file if a blockchain system was employed then any editing of a file would be shown on other such log files yes/no?
<ali1234> a hash chain
<brian_> is that a yes or no?
<ali1234> the hash of all log entries after the edited one would change
<brian_> ok
<ali1234> but you have to be able to tell that they changed
<ali1234> otherwise it is useless
<brian_> and could not be changed back unless the origional transcation or file was replaced by the edited one
<ali1234> the only way to change it back is to put the log back to how it was before you edited it
<ali1234> OR find a hash collision, which is very difficult
<brian_> i.e the edited file was replaced with the origional unedted file
<ali1234> yes
<brian_> ok
<ali1234> the key to making it work in practice is with commitments
<ali1234> ie you release only the hashes, not the log
<ali1234> the hashes alone do not give any information but can be used to prove the log is unmodified later
<ali1234> eg this is used in provably fair gambling
<brian_> so you would have to compaire #then
<ali1234> yes
<diddledan> is there a point coming soon?
<ali1234> what do you mean point?
<ali1234> hey does anyone remember ages ago when i asked:
<ali1234> if two people have secret numbers, can they compute the bitwise AND of their numbers, without revealing the numbers to each other?
<ali1234> well it turns out the answer is yes
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> is that not the basis of RSA?
<ali1234> no, not at all
<brian_> so if a logging system that had to be secure against any editing of personal data i.e. CT scanning would have to have the basis of the provably faim gamming # system
<ali1234> RSA is encryption
<ali1234> it isnt the basis of DH key exchange either, which is what this channel said last time :)
<ali1234> brian_: no, that is an over-simplification
<ali1234> anyway it turns out the problem i stated can actually be solved for any boolean logic circuit built from AND and OR gates
<ali1234> but what i found interesting about this is AND/OR gates are not universal
<brian_> what would be a system that could protect the audit trail
<diddledan> big dude with a gun
<daftykins> yep definitely sounds like homework
<ali1234> yes i agree
<diddledan> I called that ages ago
<daftykins> brian_: you're an idiot
<brian_> really
<daftykins> yep
<brian_> speak for yourself
<ali1234> nah it's fine. i'm not going to just give you things you can copy paste into your paper
<ali1234> you'll have to rewrite it in your own words
<daftykins> i think i do speak for myself :>
<diddledan> this channel is logged anyway, so we can always prove that it happened
<ali1234> but the logs are not hashed
<brian_> maybe its in your first nick name daft
<diddledan> of course we'd need to ensure it ^ that
<diddledan> dafty*
<ali1234> anyway you should go and look up "non-repudiation" on google. and "hash chains".
<brian_> this is no homework or paper excerise
<daftykins> and maybe how to study
<brian_> well you did not even undestand my origional question only one person did
<daftykins> you assumed a bit there, i mostly had issue with the multiple clients and crossposting
<brian_> and im no idiot!
<diddledan> speak for yourself. I'm definitely an idiot
<daftykins> :D
<brian_> and have not come into chat for a slanging match either or name calling which must be against the rules of freeserve and IRC
<diddledan> I take umbridge over the suggestion that I'm "normal"
<ali1234> we have this same argument like one a week
<diddledan> ali1234: is that because people insist on thinking I'm sensible?
<brian_> i think freeserve sould have a button to report abuse and ban those people
<daftykins> i don't think anyones used freeserve in years
<diddledan> I used to be on freeserve
<ali1234> me too
<ali1234> it was free
<diddledan> then orange
<daftykins> i remember magazine discs
<ali1234> so why not?
<ali1234> i had an autodialer to reconnect after the 59 minutes or whatever it was
<diddledan> I've probably still got a freeserve disk somewhere
<diddledan> I believe it was 1hour 59 minutes for the cutoff
<brian_> well the ubuntu-uk should have a abuse button then
<daftykins> yep abuse from homework requesters :)
<ali1234> it does, but if you press it, a human comes and looks at the channel and decides what to do
 * diddledan prods the button
<brian_> its not omework what makes you that?
<ali1234> kind of like the emergency brake on a train
<ali1234> if you pull it when you shouldn't have, people get annoyed
<diddledan> I need to watch guardians of the galaxy 2
<daftykins> ah that's still on my to-do list
<diddledan> I also need to eat dinner
<ali1234> brian_: prime reason we think it is homework is because you are asking questions but you don't seem to understand the terms in the questions, like you didn't come up with those questions yourself
<brian_> so any technical question then according to you is homework then
<daftykins> plus irrelevant channel for it
<ali1234> that's not even close to what i said
<diddledan> no. long question chains which have no discernable destination are indicative of homework
<brian_> well then it cant be homework then if its an irrelevant channel
<ali1234> why did you pick this channel to ask, btw?
<ali1234> just wondering
<ali1234> there are plenty of channels on freenode devoted to crypto and security
<brian_> i just wanted someone who as knowled of log files and whhat they record and if they can be edited and what measures can be implemented to check
<daftykins> so what are you studying and where?
<ali1234> well the general answer is that no consumer computer systems have this level of protection
<brian_> if you recal i was not specific about the O/S or the equipment
<diddledan> we're in #ubuntu-uk so we assume a linux of some kind
<ali1234> yes, and in general, nothing stops you editing the logs on most computers, if logging is even turned on, which it often is not
<brian_> but would a medical computer system have this level of protection
<ali1234> it is more likely, but nobody here has ever used one, so we don't know
<brian_> ok i accept that response
<diddledan> aah, sweet affirmation. I shall rest easy now
<ali1234> heh
<brian_> lets say their was a dispute as to whether such a medical system carried out a scan
<brian_> maybe you can see the level of questioning
<ali1234> well there's two possible outcomes
<diddledan> I vote to destroy the evidence
<diddledan> preferably with fire
<ali1234> either they produce the scans, proving that the scan took place, and then they can scan you again and show that the new scan is the same as the old one
<brian_> which are
<brian_> or tey produce the logs
<ali1234> either that or they can just destroy the logs and then say they never existed, because they have not publicly commited to the existence of logs
<brian_> are but that would impact upon credibility
<diddledan> fraud is awesome. I vote fraud!
<ali1234> it might impact their credibility a bit
<diddledan> daftykins: will you keep watch while I burn the lab down?
<ali1234> but not enough to matter
<brian_> that maybe difficult if logs were requested to determine if they did or did not run a scan
<daftykins> diddledan: ok, let's get some cheap walkie talkies
<ali1234> okay so not homework but now i am wondering if you are a conspiracy nut
<ali1234> are you trying to get the government to admit they did a CT scan on an alien or something?
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> I swear my alter ego is Harley Quinn
<brian_> i think it would be did they do a scan on daftykins
<ali1234> bottom line is you can't prove this either way after the fact unless systems were put in place beforehand to allow it
<ali1234> which there aren't, because i don't know any NHS website where they publish the hashes of their audit logs so that anyone can later verify them
<daftykins> i always like how quick the nuts are to attack me back
<ali1234> and anyway, if they wanted to scan an alien they could just trn the logging off
<ali1234> or use an unregistered CT scanner somewhere
<diddledan> wat? unregistered medical equipment?!
<ali1234> backstreet dentists
<diddledan> how is that even a thing?!
<brian_> well its because of all the lose bolts that fit the left handed threads
<diddledan> P.S. I'll buy your liver for 200Â£
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC4ROmnsL0o
<diddledan> I miss brass eye
<daftykins> he's got a hammer!
<brian_> this may not be NHS related!
<brian_> i guess they will after BREIXT dont need any regulation
<zmoylan-pi> i think the last time they did a scan on daftykins they got the error 'non human lifeform' :-P
<diddledan> "Have I Got News For You" facebooks: "Plans announced to test self-driving lorries on English roads next year after the successful trial of a rudderless ship by the Tory Party"
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: confidential records my posterior...
<zmoylan-pi> well most thumb drives you find in back seat of a taxi are posterior based...
<diddledan> https://t.co/muJ4DDoTOg
<ali1234> that from today's telegraph?
<ali1234> its a bit lefty for matt
<diddledan> maybe photoshopped
<ali1234> no i just checked its real :)
<ali1234> i haven't been following the news much recently but it must be going really bad if that's on the front page of the telegraph
<zmoylan-pi> irish passport office has been super busy with applications from uk
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> 100,000 in 2017, 65,000 in 2016...
<ali1234> how many in 2015 and 2014 though?
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't list those numbers, just a 44% increase over pre brexit levels... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/19/irish-passport-rush-demand-jumps-50-per-cent-since-brexit-vote
<ali1234> but the vote was in 2016
<ali1234> half of the 2016 figure is post brexit too
<diddledan> the vote was june 2016 which means that only 3 months were in those figures
<ali1234> hmmmm
<ali1234> the whole article is really confusing with the way it presents the figures
<diddledan> 2017 means april 2016 to april 2017
<diddledan> otherwise those figures would be even worse, 10000 in just 8 months
<ali1234> but wait
<diddledan> 100,000**
<ali1234> "More than 100,000 Irish passports were issued in the UK in the first six  months of 2017, up from 65,000 last year"
<ali1234> so 2017 means jan 2017 to date
<diddledan> in that case jan 2016 thru june 2016 vs jan 2017 thru june 2017
<zmoylan-pi> for a small island, it's a lot
<ali1234> but then it says "just over halfway through 2017 the passport service had already issued more than 500,000 passports"
<zmoylan-pi> that's most likely renewals
<ali1234> "In the four years to 2016, the service issued between 632,000 and 670,000 in an entire year."
<ali1234> so they are issuing nearly twice as many as usual
<ali1234> and only 20% of them are in the UK
<ali1234> and applications from outside the UK have also doubled
<ali1234> so what does it mean?
<zmoylan-pi> might be a lot of uk folk in eu with an option for an irish passport exercising that option
<diddledan> or british living in ireland
<ali1234> very possible
<zmoylan-pi> yes, we are part of the eu :-)
<ali1234> british in ireland would be more likely to have irish ancestry, and also more use for an irish passport
<klystron> it means Brexit is Brexit the UK is leaving the EU the Maybot has say so!
<ali1234> so that makes sense
<zmoylan-pi> for a long time using a uk passport was considered least hassle passport for working abroad
<diddledan> yeah, we ducked that up, didn't we
<ali1234> zmoylan-pi: relative to what though?
<diddledan> everyone
<zmoylan-pi> american passports were once gold standard till terrorism in 80s meanst they were victim #1
<ali1234> yeah but you don't have the option of any passport you want...
<zmoylan-pi> if you are wealthy there are ways
<diddledan> get an illegal one
<zmoylan-pi> most countries have ways of buying a passport legally
<klystron> is Boris J now whistling for the divorce bill?
<diddledan> not as if it'll get you in trouble
<zmoylan-pi> just invest $$$
<diddledan> lol: https://t.co/4rUdKwHfQF
<klystron>  I cant hear any whistling only the EU clock ticking away - the cliff edge is getting closer
<zmoylan-pi> that'll be sold to the chinese for their uk theme park...
<klystron> but with self driving cars it will morph into a plane so wont crash over the cliff edge - oh it will not be able to fly in the EU free air space since we will no longer be members - all flights from the UK will be grounded LOL
<ali1234> i dont think that is how it works
<zmoylan-pi> we'll get the scots to finish hadrians wall so it encloses england... :-P
<klystron> my home work lol
<klystron> i think so have a look
<ali1234> SES hasnt been implemented yet because they can't agree the details
<zmoylan-pi> pretty much any solution will be cocked up by northern ireland border
<klystron> people are deluding themselves about Brexit the true effects have not kicked in yet
<ali1234> yes, we know
<klystron> well the MayBot and here government dont seem to know
<zmoylan-pi> if they wait long enough it becomes someone elses problem
<klystron> just in charge of steering the ship onto the iceberg
<zmoylan-pi> and rats jumping overboard dressed as penguins...
<diddledan> noo, not pingu!?!
<klystron> can they swim
<klystron> the rats dressed as penguins?
<zmoylan-pi> rats or penguins? both are yes afaik
<klystron> well 350 million a week can be fed back into the NHS according to the chief whistler Boris J
<klystron> who now concedes that we legally have to pay the divorce bilL
<klystron> give Boris J the red button - aimed locked and loaded
<zmoylan-pi> in contrast the dm is excited about 29,000 eu citizens applying for uk citizenship up from 16,000
<klystron> all dummies cant afford the real things
<klystron> aircraft carries without no aircraft for 5 year or more
<zmoylan-pi> they should fill it with vintage wwii aircarft carrier planes till then... :-)
<klystron> mind you its a nice big aircraft carrier
<klystron> sampson radar system
<zmoylan-pi> use it as a 3rd runway for heathrow... :-)
<klystron> if they can get it up the Thames
<zmoylan-pi> a bit of dredging and move a few bridges... :-P
<klystron> just hope the yanks dont crash into it
<zmoylan-pi> or shoot it...
<zmoylan-pi> or ram it...
<klystron> well admirals are two a penny or cent in the us navy
<klystron> when will the launch the Donald L Trump class of ship
<zmoylan-pi> depends when the russians build it...
<klystron> lol
<klystron> well maybe that the trade deal the us will have with the uk after brexit
<klystron> or maybe they will want a lot of irish and brits to build the great wall of Mexico
<zmoylan-pi> their chlorinated chicken sounds yum...
<klystron> we will end up looking like yanks eating that stuff
<klystron> all bloat and bullshit
<klystron> or drop down dead with heart attacks
<daftykins> pretty sure there's no divide now on the fat front between the UK and US
<zmoylan-pi> i think there's still a differnce as a lot more folk in uk use public transport and walk more
<zmoylan-pi> but catching up
<klystron> of course with the special relations between the us and uk will tis make the uk more of a target in respect of NK?
<daftykins> hahaha
<klystron> mind you we do a good range of NK haircuts in London
<klystron> so could be Boris J and the Maybot have a secret plan after Brexit - make every one have a NK hhaircut
<zmoylan-pi> soylent green is made of lefties... \o/
<klystron> oh if Brexit was not Brexit
<klystron> all our problems would be solved
<zmoylan-pi> not all, but most of the self inflicted problems of last year...
<klystron> and to come
<klystron> David Cameron has a lot to answer for
<klystron> and history will not be kind
<klystron> an isolated little island called UK
<klystron> a tax haven for Google and all the rest
<zmoylan-pi> ireland hasn't given that up yet...
<klystron> and world trade tariffs on all good and food
<klystron> Scotland independent, Ireland united and in the EU
<zmoylan-pi> wales rebels in the hills keeping everyone awake with the singing...
<klystron> but immigration will be down, no ECJ and the isolated little UK known as England will have taken back control a broken economy, no real influence in the world
<zmoylan-pi> so... about the same then... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> but without the eu trade deals...
<klystron> we do have a big aircraft carrier with no planes for 10 years
<zmoylan-pi> for smuggling goods in...
<klystron> the NHS in ruins, cheep holidays to India
<klystron> more Indian call centers
<klystron> well maybe the smugglers will hack the aircraft carrier
<klystron> the yanks are looking into that possibility regarding the 4 crashes it had with their us warsips
<klystron> oh and no CE making on all products sold in the UK after Brexit
<zmoylan-pi> they reintroduced using a sextant classes for sailors a few years back in event of gps tampering signal
<ali1234> CE mark is meaningless. every cheap china product has it and nobody cares
<klystron> do they know how to read them lol
<zmoylan-pi> anyone can read a sextant, doing it accurately is another matter
<klystron> well they will still crash the ships even more then
<ali1234> i cant
<klystron> dammit another load of cheep us admirals gone - just cant get the staff
<zmoylan-pi> and if they were smart they could beg borrow steal the uk rumoured star navigation system that uses computer to work out lat long using a computer looking at night sky
<ali1234> rumoured?
<ali1234> isn't there an android app that can do that?
<klystron> or the more accurate EU sat nav system
<zmoylan-pi> one of those things you hear about but whem you try and track it down melts away... but uk is decent at keeping secrets sometimes
<klystron> yeah but they will still crash their warships difference between us and Uk distance units
<ali1234> did eevblog do a teardown of a computer that did that from the 60s?
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, but rumour suggests the uk has made a tiny version that can replace a cruise missile navigation system
<klystron> and sold it to NK
<ali1234> does anyone else think the story in half-life is massively overrated?
<ali1234> like it's stretching the limits of what you could even call a story
<ali1234> it's more like "some guy tells you to do something, then there's a deus ex machina"
<diddledan> I never played it
<daftykins> lots of seesaw puzzles because shiny new physics engine
<daftykins> (HL2)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-26
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> so.. I'm watching "The Queen"
<DJones> diddledan: Can't go wrong with watching a documentary about Freddie Mercury
<diddledan> helen mirren is good as the man himself
<DJones> Can she hit the high notes from Bohemian Rhapsody?
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-27
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> ooooh, last sunday of the month, goes to check flea market is on...
<knightwise> anything in perticular you are looking for ?
<brobostigon> you might get lucky a find someone selling a nextcube or something like that.
<zmoylan-pi> nah, just nice to see odds and sods from your childhood on sale... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/825804720124067841
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> somebody's gamed google news to show viagra type ad
<foobarry> and i can't report or hide the story
<penguin42> I'm sure they're hoping it helps them keep their ad up longer
<foobarry> look: http://imgur.com/a/oqk32
<daftykins> funky
<zmoylan-pi> hardened ad executives gone rogue
#ubuntu-uk 2019-08-19
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<m0nkey_> ð
<zmoylan-pi> =^..^=
<bigcalm> Ahoy
<bigcalm> Something up with gb.archive.ubuntu.com today? Getting 60K/s at best from it
<sonia83>  Hello, I've got a Star Lite laptop that shipped with linux and some of the vendor-specific libraries are not upgrading correctly. sude apt-get update produces some errors including: unable to open '/usr/share/themes/StarLabs-Dark/gtk-3.0/assets/bullet-symbolic.svg.dpkg-new': No such file or directory. I've not moved anything.
<daftykins> which release is it running?
<daftykins> try running "cat /etc/lsb-release"
<daftykins> sonia83: ?
#ubuntu-uk 2019-08-20
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2019-08-21
<m0nkey_> Hey boys and girls
<m0nkey_> I have a serious question. I'm working on a presentation to be given at vBSDcon in a few weeks. I'm doing a small bit about the BSD community and how that community can make it more attractive to Linux users like yourselves. What would the BSD community need to do to bring more of you over?
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<daftykins> \o/
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> half prepared for another power cut today, as they continue to muck about on the town high street
<daftykins> couple of fellas were there 'til gone 8pm last night, yikes
<daftykins> truly down in the trenches...
<lopta> brb, coffee++
<brobostigon> yes please,
 * lopta ponders
<daftykins> \o
<lopta> o/
<daftykins> mmm curry night
<lopta> I do miss curry
<lopta> Had a quick look in the freezer section of the supermarket the other day but I didn't see any Balti or Korma
<lopta> Might keep looking though
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> might have to be a DIY sauce creation!
<lopta> That's an idea.
<daftykins> my local has dropped the ball on my last two visits :( my usual choice hasn't been right at all
<lopta> daftykins: Local Indian restaurant or local supermarket?
<daftykins> local Indian place yeah
<lopta> Sadly we don't have one of those.
