#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-10
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ /topic| 4 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechnicalBoard | 5 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 7 Oct 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 11 Oct 14:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU |
<Seveas> !meeting set CommunityCouncil 11 Oct 14:00
<Ubugtu> Bad chan: #ubuntu-meeting
<Seveas> !meeting set CommunityCouncil 11 Oct 14:00
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 5 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 7 Oct 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 11 Oct 14:00 UTC: CommunityCouncil | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU
<Seveas> Couldn't resist writing python at midnight :)
<FLeiXiuS> brb
<JaneW> **Reminder** 5 mins to Edubuntu Update Meeting i
<flint> JJane is too damn eary
<flint> sorry Janew are you floating arount here?
<JaneW> hi flint
* ogra ties the floating Jane somewhere so she doesnt float away
<flint> you are a mean woman...I need my beauty rest!
<JaneW> hehehe
<flint> morning ollie!
* JaneW just wolfed down lunch so won't be floating anywhere ;)
<ogra> flint, come on, youre beautiful enough
<flint> elkner just woke me up with a call from his classroom
<JaneW> flint: actually I was thinking of moving the meeting forward 2 hours, would you prefer that?
<flint> he is operating smoothly and is content with the pix fix that Jane and you suggested Ollie. 
<flint> no...ok yea!
<JaneW> flint: glad to hear it :))
<JaneW> ok let's get this show on the road
<flint> jane 2 hours + will place it at your nap time,  What good would that do?
<ogra> no jsgotango ?
<JaneW> hehe, no 2 hours forward is 10UCT (12:00pm here)
<JaneW> apartently he is at Burger King
<ogra> hmm
<flint> ah another floater...
<JaneW> so it's the 3 of us?
<ogra> looks like
<JaneW> well the main victory of this week was getting rid of JessicaX^
<flint> I am humble in the presence of such power...
<ogra> i already sent my weekl report to jane, but will post it again here
<JaneW> ogra: flood away
<ogra> Serious blocker bugs we have:
<ogra> - #12942 - NFS timeout * solved !!!
<ogra> not *this serious*
<ogra> - #15244 - logins timeout if you try to relogin within the minute you logged out
<ogra> open LTSP bugs:
<ogra> - ltsp-server postinst needs to generate the dhcp.conf file dynamically according to the selected IP adress 
<ogra>   (currently the most important bug we have, makes the install fail if a wrong IP range was selected)
<JaneW> ogra: it;s up in the meeting notes already too
<ogra> - PATH variable doesnt contain the /usr/games PATH
<ogra> cosmetic LTSP bugs:
<ogra> - Locale selection in the login manager need fixing or must be ripped out
<ogra>   (could get ripped out since it will use the server locale by default)
<ogra> - Session selection in the login manager need fixing or must be ripped out 
<ogra>   (we dont have sessions yet so the latter is the best option)
<ogra> open Installer Bugs (all cosmetic):
<ogra> - error message about IP selesction
<ogra> - ltsp-client-builder.udeb progress reporting is missing (removing the progressbar and adding a text will do here)
<ogra> open Extra bugs:
<ogra> - one small xscreensaver bug where screensavers start in random mode where they shouldnt start at all
<ogra>   (can be worked around by not selecting random mode, but should better be fixed) 
<ogra> - artwork must be packaged new, the mozilla homepage (about edubuntu) handling changed completely, fixing this will get 
<ogra>   very tricky since we cant cover all translations and will have to replace them *all* with the same page i have no 
<ogra>   idea how to solve that yet and didnt know it was planned.
<ogra> - i decided to disable all sound components for now since we dont support sound on the thin clients and it will confuse 
<ogra>   the users (soundserver and volume control in the panel) needs to be added to the artwork package
<ogra> Package bugs (not solved due to xscreensaver hacking, ajmitch took over but getting it past mdz on the CD at 
<ogra> this point seems hard (but not impossible)):
<ogra> - moodle www-config-common bug
<ogra> - moodle security bug needs upgrade to v1.5.1
<ogra> CDs:
<ogra> - the powerpc CD now exploded completely (17MB to big), i'm not yet sure what to rip out from it to make it usable, sugestions for not needed package
<ogra> - due to a broken acpi-support package in ubuntu todays daily isnt installable on all arches.
<ogra> -------------------
<ogra> gcompris is fixed completely, upstream tested it and thanked for the fixing :)
<ogra> i was mainly busy with sabdfl's xscreensaver whishes last week... over the weekend i fixed gcompris...
<JaneW> nod, you have been very busy
<JaneW> and productive
<mhz> moin
<JaneW> hi mhz
<flint> damn...
<ogra> currently my greates drawback is that i still had no time to work on my bazaar skills, but mdz doesnt accept patches to ltsp anymore...
<ogra> else the ltsp stuff would be fixed today :/
<flint> mdz is a weenie
<JaneW> ogra: has mdz seen edubuntu yet?
<ogra> JaneW, no idea, he knows toutstanding he ltsp problems...
<ogra> *the outstanding
<flint> I would opine that he is buzy with the final coat of paint on breezy
<JaneW> what can be done?
<flint> jane, what you have is releasable.  
<mhz> JaneW: and all of you:  I am sorry, but I do have to go to a meeting (about Gov. and its tries to implement IT on education). When will the final Ubuntu Cd covers be ok?
<ogra> JaneW, nothing except me learning bazaar to get the fixes merged
<ogra> but it wont be ready for RC i fear
<JaneW> mhz: I am waiting for them....
<JaneW> mhz: I ask again today and will mail you as soon as we have something
<mhz> edu-cool!
<mhz> :)
<ogra> flint, it isnt as long as the dhcp.conf generation is missing
<ogra> flint, if you select a different IP in the installer, the install fails at the end
<flint> that dhcp.conf just means that you have only one range to use, the 192.168.1.whatever i thought.
<ogra> thast not releasable
<mhz> Again, I am very sorry I have to leave. Best regards to ALL of you and hope you get enlightened enough to work and be happy at the same time :D
<mhz> by!
<mhz> bye!
<ogra> flint, yes, but people select other ranges at the beginning of the install are bitten
<flint> ollie keep in mind how pissed off I was that I culd not weedle the lotr patch in.
<JaneW> adios
<flint> thanks mhz
* mhz is off to a meeting and probably willnot have IRC during the day :(
<ogra> flint, its release critical imho... your change was cosmetic, but the lort login works at least
<flint> okey dokey, but we share a common goal, getting this stuff on the CD.  What ho Joan (Jane) of Arc?
<ogra> flint, yes, but installer issues are way more important
<flint> ollie you are a poet broken is lort fixed is lotr...
<ogra> :)
<flint> mdz will argue that a fixed non routable dhcp ip stanza is fine... (BTW I am not trying to piss you off :^)  Just being a devils advocate...
<JaneW> jsgotangco was complaining that no one is helping (collaborating) on the docs on the wiki
<ogra> flint, it prevents edubuntu-server from being installed
<ogra> its not a routing prob
<flint> I would imaging that acerbic comment is directed at me jane... :^)  send me a nag email.
<flint> ...and you have to go and edit the dhcp.conf file manually. right olllie?
<ogra> JaneW, i'm complaining that i have to redo edubuntu-artwork because nobody notified the changes in the default firefoix homepage...
<JaneW> ogra: can you explain that a bit
<JaneW> I am not sure I understand the issue
<ogra> flint, yes, and afterwards you have to reinstall every single package edubuntu-server depends on manually
<ogra> JaneW, last week th default omepage (click the house in firefox to see it) was moved out of ubuntu-artwork and into ubuntu-docs...
<ogra> thats no prob so far
<flint> in practice you can run with the edited dhcp.conf file ok.
<ogra> JaneW, but the new page gets set by language packs to the translated version now... which means we have 90 different versions of it
<ogra> in different locations
<flint> Ladies and gentlemen, I feel need to unlock from the breezy release, or have network based patches.  
<ogra> so if you have edubuntu-artwork installed (which exchanges the default page with about-edubuntu) and install a language pack afterwards, it gets overwritten with the localized about-ubuntu page
<ogra> flint, thats technically not possible
<JaneW> ogra: oic!
<ogra> mdz already explained that
<JaneW> ogra: I always change my default home page immediately ;)
<ogra> JaneW, my prob is that i havent palnned a minute to touch -artwork again, but its a big prob i dont know how to solve yet
<JaneW> ogra: why was it moved?
<flint> the network based patch thing is.  you built one ollie...
<ogra> JaneW, ask the -doc team... its was a surprise for me when jdub removed the page from ubuntu-artwork....
<ogra> JaneW, diziet was bitten by it as well (ff maintainer), but for him its solved... 
<JaneW> so what do we have to do?
<flint> kids the issue appears we will need to patch any actual installation of edubuntu if we cannot change the release cd.  Is that it?
<JaneW> move ours out of the artwork package too?
<ogra> JaneW, nope
<ogra> JaneW, it doesnt matter in which package the page is
<ogra> if it gets overwritten by langpack changes ....
<flint> I get it.  the langpack and the actual pages are not quite synced up.
<JaneW> so we'd need our own lang packs!?
<ogra> the prob is that we dont have 90 versions of the page... and that i cant make sure all occurences of it get replaced with ours
<ogra> that would be a solution but not in this timeframe
<JaneW> right, do we have any translations of about edubuntu
<JaneW> ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> not to my knowledge
<JaneW> can we force the english page to stay there?
<ogra> ut we cant prevent localization
<ogra> nope
<ogra> not as its designed now
<JaneW> is there any solution?
<JaneW> and how NB is it?
<ogra> NB ?
<JaneW> what is there's a link on each about ubuntu page to the english about edubuntu page?
<ogra> JaneW, and what if i use ubuntu ? 
<JaneW> Nota Bena (or whatever) latin for important
<ogra> theer wont be a about edubuntu page
<JaneW> then you;d ignore it, or read it for interest sake
<flint> warty sucked this bad out of the gate...  The cool thing here is that most every copy of edubuntu will have a net feed.  Nota bene  Jane.
<ogra> read what '? 
<ogra> you get an error massage if its not there
<ogra> message
<JaneW> ogra: right
<JaneW> on-line link?
<ogra> and i doubt the doc team would be happy with a edubuntu link
<JaneW> agreed, but I
<JaneW> 'm thinking of an solution
<JaneW> any
<ogra> me too, we still have time... i wont touch -artwork this week, probably i can come up with a solution the next days
<flint> jane, in comparison to the fundamental IP type problem that ollie is alluding to this artwork stuff is small.  You will not connect with the dhcp.conf bug.
<ogra> flint, nope
<ogra> flint, you will not be able to *install*
<ogra> its not about connection
<JaneW> ok well the good news is that sabdfl has commited to funding us to print off some CDs
<ogra> its only the thin client side that isnt connected by default anyway
<flint> ollie, i mean that under certain situations your workstations and the server will not talk.
<JaneW> the bad news is if we *cough*cockitup*cough* that will be it for edubuntu
<ogra> flint, yes, because no ltsp is installed
<flint> jane we did not screw up.  we have the patches we just cannot get them in the stream.
<ogra> flint, that doesnt matter....
<flint> we consultants are great at standing holding the seat belt and watching the auto crash.
<ogra> what is in on release date must work
<JaneW> so here's what sabdfl wants
<JaneW> Document the shipping
<JaneW> plan, and ask teams to document their distribution plans ON THE SAME
<JaneW> PAGE. So, I want to see a wiki page that says we are shipping 500 CD's
<JaneW> to Germany (and to whom), and beneath that, where that team plamns to
<JaneW> distribute those 500 CD's. And then on the same page, the plans for
<JaneW> Nigeria. So on a single page we can see how those 8,000 CD's will be use
<flint> we gotta fix the dhcp then.
<highvoltage> i'm here i'm here
<JaneW> hi highvoltage 
<ogra> flint, exactly
<flint> hi hi hivoltage...
<flint> god i love recursion....
<highvoltage> hi JaneW and flint 
<highvoltage> :)
<flint> do you guys want me to bell the cat, or do you want elkner to write the sabdfl and say what we have is not complete technically?
<ogra> flint, eeek, please dont... 
<highvoltage> ogra: is there an easy way to get a summary of packages and their sizes?
<ogra> highvoltage, what for ? 
<flint> gotcha ollie, but we got to do something.
<highvoltage> ogra: removing the best selection of packages for PPC.
<highvoltage> i'm tending to think gcompris, just because it's so big.
<highvoltage> but there's probably a better selection of software to remove.
<highvoltage> blender3d is possibly one of them.
<ogra> but gcompris is quite essential
<highvoltage> true, it's one of the things that make edubuntu edubuntu.
<ogra> blender would be a candidate
<highvoltage> how about evolution?
<ogra> flint, but that doesnt involve sabdfl
<highvoltage> most schools will probably use web based clients.
<flint> In the annals hivoltage, you name shall be "The Butcher of PPC"!  I salute you!!!
<highvoltage> flint: ;)
<highvoltage> flint: I solute you too, and most people in this chanel, for that matter.
<ogra> highvoltage, i'm not sure how easy that is... i have to look at it
<highvoltage> ok.
<ogra> but blender is a good guess... 
<ogra> probably scribus
<highvoltage> apologies for just barging in and flooding, i nearly forgot about this meeting.
<flint> ogra, sabdfl will be the one disapointed.  this is expectation management pure and simple.
<highvoltage> do we have a set agenda or do i have permission to babble for just a bit longer?
<flint> no worries hv, your thoughts on Butchery are well received in this meeting.
<ogra> flint, the release is good, as you said in the beginnig, but the dhcp.conf bug needs to get solved, its a mdz thing
* highvoltage is having trouble understanding flint, but continues babbling in another direction
<ogra> my prob is that i lost 10 days
<highvoltage> the website.
<ogra> due to screensaver flipping back and forth
<highvoltage> hno73 has the wiki theme done. it's beatiful. we also have our basic html edubuntu page(s)
<ogra> s/screensaver/screensaver packages/
<highvoltage> the site and wiki will look different, but with a very, very similar theme. i think it's looking good.
<flint> ogra, the damn thing will work attached to a dedicated switch if you patch the files according to the (still unwritten) documentation, correct?
<highvoltage> elmo has been scarce again since thursday, all i need him to do is change some dns and apache settings, and we're good to go.
<ogra> flint, the thing will work if you go with the suggested IP range
<highvoltage> flint: the 'cookbook' exists.
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes what you and hno73 have done is looking great, did you get my mail?
<ogra> flint, if you change that, the dhcp.conf needs to pick up this change
<highvoltage> JaneW: i might have, i'm a bit behind with mail, we've had a two-day meeting over monday and tuesday.
<JaneW> highvoltage: elmo is on leave,,,
<JaneW> highvoltage: oic
<highvoltage> crap.
<highvoltage> when is he back?
<highvoltage> how can he choose a time like this to be on leave!? it's like, a freakin' week before release!
<JaneW> can;t find it now but I think he said he is off till thurs (tomorrow)
<JaneW> I know
<JaneW> but Karl is there
<highvoltage> ok, that at least is managable
<ogra> highvoltage, because he worked much harder than anybody else the last weeks
<highvoltage> ogra: ok :)
<JaneW> requests must go to: "Now that there's two admins, please email all admin requests to: rt@admin.canonical.com"
<highvoltage> no harm intended to elmo, for the record.
<ogra> and had to introduce karl 
<ogra> ...to his job 
<highvoltage> i'll send it to request tracker. anyone have Karl's e-mail too?
<flint> and the change in dhcp.conf has to flow to all the client configurations, got it.  Highvoltage, where is this "cookbook" got a url?
<JaneW> highvoltage: so mail the queue and it should get done, in fact it's much more likely to get done like that (more official)
<highvoltage> brb
<JaneW> flint: in our wiki
<JaneW> flint: look in the docs section
<flint> jane, you can tell a lot about a girl by the size of her wiki :^)
<flint> where on the wiki?
<flint> ok I will go look... sorry.
<ogra> n n
<JaneW> flint!
<JaneW> what else?
<flint> i'm looking! i'm looking (i'm laughting :^)
<flint> when we go live with this thing jane, the only thing that will help us hold the line is this wiki of yours.  I will find the time to help with it.
<flint> ...getting documentation correct on the page i mean.
<flint> my conculsion is that since we are powerless to change the release cd, our only option is to mitigate any rough edges in the documentation.  this we can do.
<JaneW> flint: great thanks
<JaneW> nod
<JaneW> and get a nice CD cover and label design
<JaneW> mhz is in carge of that, so collaborate with him
<JaneW> flint: also we can do some good press releases
<flint> I have compelte faith in your graphic design capabilities young lady.
<ogra> sorry, my keaboard went mad, i had to reset
<flint> the linux world interview of sabdfl mentions edubuhntu almost as one leg of the tripod, ubuntu, kubuntu, and edubuntu.
<flint> regarding press, I can see what kind of bother I can cause in DC.  Ollie, am I bad to say that the dhcp.conf fix is most important?
<JaneW> ogra: what is it with the KB of yours?
<ogra> its going mad sometines... i already ordered a new one... but wont recieve it before UBZ
<flint> jane, it says "Underwood" at the top and is very pretty.  
<ogra> flint, nope, youre absolutely right
<JaneW> I think it is agreed that the DHCP thing needs to be fixed - ogra but is there any chance of it being fixed before the 13th?
<ogra> flint, all other stuff is minor annoyance and cosmetic stuff
<ogra> JaneW, absolutely
<JaneW> cool. done
<ogra> JaneW, else i'll resign myself :)
<flint> agreed.  Note that we have patched around this in all the installations we have done.
* JaneW will need to as well then...
<JaneW> ok is there anything else to discuss?
<ogra> i want to have it fixed locally today, the question is how to get it in... i need a bazaar training
<JaneW> lets get our A's into G and get this release wrapped
<JaneW> literally and figuratively
<JaneW> ogra: can we bribe someone?
<flint> Jane-of-arc, get your armor on, grab yous sword and lets go fight for dhcp.conf
<ogra> JaneW, i'll ask jblack, he offered one to me... but the sad thng is that the patch wont be in for RC
<JaneW> that's tomorrow right?
<ogra> i'll jum right on it now to make it ready here
<JaneW> does jblack have time to help?
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> and the WSIS thing?
<ogra> JaneW, i'll ask him
<JaneW> should I talk to mdz about making it ubuntu olnly?
<ogra> no idea, i gave you all my views
<ogra> we probably should talk with him 
<JaneW> ok
<ogra> to see his opinion
<flint> ollie, do you have to use bazaar to generate the iso at this point?  That would be most cool.  what do you mean ubuntu only?
<ogra> flint, i have to use bazaar for all of my job
<ogra> so mdz can merge my changes
<ogra> (and not only mdz)
<flint> I can tell you he is most disinclined to change anything in the current release.
<ogra> but he knows the problem with ltsp 
<ogra> this fix he will accept, be sure
<flint> Note that the LTSP rewrite was his baby this summer.  
<ogra> its just the technical part on my side that needs to be ok... 
<ogra> flint, as if i wouldnt know that
<ogra> its not a problem with him not liking my changes, its a problem on my side that i cant provide the changes as he wants them
<ogra> and thats what i have to fix...
<flint> I can live with a dog that dances and looks a little scruffy, especially a newborne one, they are always cute.  But it must dance.
<ogra> exactly
<flint> ogra,  I will probably call matt and harass him about this issue, after talking to elkner.  Elkner and I call him at lunch on a cell phone.
<flint> and elkner is back online today.
<ogra> flint, dont do that, he surely gets annoyed
<ogra> i wouldnt like to annoy him before i have anything in my hands
<JaneW> flint: don't irk him more than necessary!
<flint> yea...  I really look forward to hearing him sputter...
<flint> I can be gentle and diplomatic, moreover he listens to jeff and I can put him on the phone...
<ogra> flint, being gentle to a guy that hasnt slept enough doesnt help :)
<flint> mdz is one of the best sputter-ers I know.  His first sputter is normally about the lack of testing response....
<ogra> flint wait until i have the fix ready and have talked to him, he knows how critical the fix is for us
<flint> ogra,  this is important.  Has he been online all night?
<ogra> i guess so... we're short before RC, he doesnt sleep much at this times...
<ogra> (as i do :) )
<flint> I will not poke him with a stick when he is sleeping.
<flint> gotcha.  let me ruminate then.
<ogra> flint, just wait until i have prepared the patch and have talked to him
<flint> get this one last bug slayed and go to the fair.  I would be most interested in your patch ollie.  can I look at it?
<flint> I might actually learn something valuable.
<ogra> flint, yes, if its done...
<JaneW> ok ladies I must go
<ogra> i'll send it to you... but note that its only important for the CD (installer)
<JaneW> ogra see you in a bit
<flint> I actually liked your lotr patch, and I sent back an embelishment
<JaneW> lets get this DHCP thing whacked
<ogra> yup
<flint> jane your f-a-b-u-l-o-u-s
<ogra> flint, note too that its a patch for the deb, it has nothing to do with ltsp itself...
<JaneW> ogra: thanks for the great and detailed report :)
<flint> thanks for being here janew
<ogra> (its really only about installation)
<ogra> JaneW, my job... i shuld have started earlier with them :)
<flint> email me what you can when you can ollie. merely for my own education.
<ogra> flint, this evening/night (my time) it shoudl be ready
<JaneW> ogra: agreed, but better late than never ;)
<ogra> sure :)
<flint> I will brief elkner this day.
<ogra> i'll do that on a regular basis before the meetins now
<flint> good luck to all and good day/evening/morning/afternoon.  Remember Howard Hughes once flew the worlds largest wooden plane 175 yards in order to say it worked.  Working is a matter of perception.
<JaneW> thank oli
<highvoltage> sorry about that, lots of interuptions here.
* JaneW will try to organise everything else, CD coveres docs and other peripherals etc
<highvoltage> not that i'm in a position to ask either, but anything that i can do to help still, or find someone to do?
<flint> I'm outa here.  Thanks again to all.
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-11
<robitaille> !meeting Edubuntu 12 Oct 12:00
<Ubugtu> (meeting <command> [<args> ...] ) -- Command dispatcher for the Meeting plugin. Use 'list Meeting' to see the commands provided by this plugin. Use 'config list plugins.Meeting' to see the configuration values for this plugin. In most cases this dispatcher command is unnecessary; in cases where more than one plugin defines a given command, use this command to tell the bot which plugin's command to (1 more message)
<robitaille> !meeting set Edubuntu 12 Oct 12:00
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 7 Oct 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 11 Oct 14:00 UTC: CommunityCouncil | 12 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU
<robitaille> I like this bot :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-12
<jsgotangco> oh god i totally forgot about it
<Riddell> so did everyone else by the looks of it
<jsgotangco> Riddell: shame really, the team (or whatever is left) really needs rebuilding...
<Yagisan> well I usually just watch
<Yagisan> but yeah - it's really quiet here
<Seveas> When's the new docteam meeting?
<mdke> no idea
<mdke> why?
<Seveas> I want to show off Ubugtu's new plugin ;)
<mdke> bah
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-16
<Seveas> !meeting delete DocTeam
<Seveas> !meeting delete DocTeam
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 11 Oct 14:00 UTC: CommunityCouncil | 12 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU
<mdke> the candidate is BeniaminoCaputo, he has been one of (if not the main) driving forces behind the reorganisation of the italian locoteam, and has contributed to the recent release of the italian website by essentially admining the forum (including writing a from-scratch Ubuntu theme). Everything else that supports his application I think is detailed on his wiki page.
<mdke> whoops, wrong window
<Seveas> 4 minutes to CC
<Seveas> No CC members have arrived yet :)
<Mizar> Hi all
<Seveas> hi Mizar 
<zakame> hi all! =)
<jsgotangco> Seveas, you can moderate though =)
<\sh> CC meeting now?
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> we can wait in a few
<Seveas> the calendar says so
<Kamion> I'm busy with a hideous last-minute installer bug; I'll lurk but may not be paying attention
<Seveas> Kamion, we'll ping you when a vote is needed :)
<ogra> do we have quorum ? 
<Seveas> not right now
<ogra> so probably votes wont be needed at all 
<\sh> ogra: mjg59 voting to TB ;)
<Seveas> sabdfl and elmo are active
<Seveas> mako not
<Kamion> it's early for mako
<\sh> and I wanted to go home now...
<ogra> \sh, TB != CC
<jsgotangco> speak of the devil
<zakame> heh
<ogra> speaking of the devil :)
<\sh> ogra: check CC agenda...mjgs election to TB is for CC to vote
<Seveas> mako, !
<mako> who else is here from the council?
<Seveas> kamion
<Kamion> I'm here, but busy with a last-minute installer bug, so was hoping to lurk
<Seveas> elmo and sabdfl have idle times of 3 resp 17 minutes
<Kamion> elmo is in the datacentre today; he'll probably notice a ping shortly
<jsgotangco> there
<sabdfl> hi all
<Seveas> and that's 3 :)
<zakame> hi sabdfl 
<bddebian> Hello sabdfl
<Tonio-> hi all
<Seveas> welcome sabdfl 
<bddebian> Heya Tonio-
<\sh> moin moin sabdfl 
<mako> sabdfl: greetings
<sabdfl> ok, mako, will you chair?
<Seveas> \begin{PublicServiceAnnouncement}
<Seveas> Hello everybody, welcome to the Community Council Meeting. The meeting will start in a few minutes (hopefully). The agenda for today can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda. Please stick to the agenda and don't go off-topic CC meetings take lang enough already. All member candidates, make sure your wikipage is up-to-date and prepare a 3 line introduction (which you will have
<Seveas>  to give in this channel) describing your past contributions to Ubuntu, your plans and your vision of the Ubuntu feature. Make sure you ALREADY are on the launchpad Ubuntu members page and that you upload a signed copy of the CoC as soon as possible. Everybody who has an item on the agenda please prepare a few lines describing it so you can easily paste it in the channel later to give everybody an
<Seveas>  overview. LocoTeam leaders, prepare a few lines in which you describe the status of your team, what your team is currently doing and what the plans are.
<mako> i'd be hpapy to 
<Seveas> \end{PublicServiceAnnouncement}
<Seveas> Everybody please state your real name for the record
* Seveas = Dennis Kaarsemaker
* \sh = StephanHermann
* jsgotangco = JeromeGotangco
<mako> i'm Benjamin Mako Hill
* sabdfl = MarkShuttleworth
* Treenaks = Martijn van de Streek
* zakame = Zak Elep
* smurf is Matthias Urlichs
<dholbach> i'm Daniel Holbach
<Mizar> --> BeniaminoCaputo
* Kamion is Colin Watson
* mvo Michael Vogt
* vuntz_ = Vincent Untz
* ogra -> Oliver Grawert
* bddebian -> Barry deFreese
<mako> is smurf here with us today?
<mako> yes
<jsgotangco> yes
<mako> smurf: cool
<smurf> mako: ;-)
<mako> i just woke up here :) 
<Seveas> Hmm, looks like none of the locoteamcontacts on the agenda are here yet
* fabbione -> God
<fabbione> ops
* fabbione -> FabioDiNitto
<mako> it would be nice to talk to the folks there
<mako> smurf: anything to report from the loco front?
<smurf> I'll try to ping them; I'd say we proceed with the rest of the agenda in the meantime
<mako> alright
<mako> new candidates
<Tonio-> I'm Anthony Mercatante
<Seveas> As far as I can see, only one of the new candidates is here
<Seveas> BeniaminoCaputo -- Mizar 
<mako> this is a pretty thin showing :)
<Seveas> bigcx2
<Mizar> I'm here.
<mako> Mizar: alright
<mako> Mizar: you're up.. want to tell us about yourself in relation to ubuntu?
<Mizar> Ok
<Mizar> I'm admin of italian mailing list, admin of italian forum, member of Italian LoCoTeam, member of Italian Documentation group and italian translation group in Rosetta and obviously I try to support Ubuntu users in irc, mailing list and forum.
<Kamion> Matthew East couldn't make it today, but he asked me to pass on a comment about Mizar
<Kamion> <mdke> the candidate is BeniaminoCaputo, he has been one of (if not the main) driving forces behind the reorganisation of the italian locoteam, and has  contributed to the recent release of the italian website by essentially admining the forum (including writing a from-scratch Ubuntu theme). Everything else  that supports his application I think is detailed on his wiki page.
<jsgotangco> yeah +1 on the ubuntu-it website
<fabbione> Mizar: url to the italian site please?
<Mizar> mmm thanks to Matthew.
<smurf>  +1 from me too
<Seveas> ubuntu-it.org
<Mizar> www.ubuntu-it.org wiki.ubuntu-it.org forum.ubuntu-it.org
<jsgotangco> they updated it just in time for breezy release
<Seveas> Mizars wiki page looks nice
<Mizar> We have release 3 distinct sites .. yesterday.
<Seveas> assuming he's not lying he would imho be a valuable addition
<Seveas> ;)
<mako> it looks very nice :)
<sabdfl> +1 on Mizar from me, for his help in getting the Italian Job off the ground again
<Mizar> And now we have to improve and extend this sites.
<bddebian> The Italian Job. Heh
<fabbione> Mizar: +1.. well done
<Kamion> Mizar: you might want to coordinate with the Firefox maintainer, Ian Jackson, on your default bookmark suggestions
<jsgotangco> maybe the ItalianTeam can also help the other locoteams on best practices
<Mizar> Thanks.
<Mizar> Ok ... Kamion.
<mako> Mizar: any sort of vision for the future of ubuntu and a way to fit in it?
<mako> Mizar: also, was your re-org mostly limited to website reorganization (just a question)
<Mizar> I have no particular indication.
<mako> the documentation and translations looks good :)
<Mizar> Think to improve hardware recognition .... extend documentation .
<Mizar> Thinks like this.
<mako> Mizar: how long have you been involved in the team?
<Tonio-> back in five minutes... work emergency
<Diablo-D3> this meeting is just about locolization?
<Mizar> To the begin.
<Mizar> I know Andrea Abelli ..
<ogra> Diablo-D3, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<Seveas> Mizar, what are your plans for ubuntu/ubuntu-it?
<Kamion> Diablo-D3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<bddebian> Diablo-D3: This meeting is about the Ubuntu Community :-)
<Mizar> And I have try to make it return in the team.
<Mizar> s/it/him
<Diablo-D3> bddebian: hehe
<Mizar> Hard to do a plain for ubuntu-it. :)
<Mizar> You know about italian people.
<Seveas> italian temper
<Mizar> I try to do an organizationt that cooperate and work good togheter.
<Seveas> sounds cool
<Seveas> Kamion, mako, opinions/votes?
<Mizar> But ... I'm not alone in this .... MatthewEast FabioMarzocca LorenzoSfarra ... work with me ... for this.
<mako> anyway.. i appreciate your work and happy with your wiki page and mdke's recommendation so that's a vote in favor from me
<Kamion> likewise, I'm very glad to see the Italian team calming down after my memory of the early days :-)
<Kamion> (+1)
<Seveas> great, welcome aboard Mizar !
<sabdfl> cool
<sabdfl> welcome, Mizar
<Seveas> Who does launchpad business today?
<Mizar> Thanks ... very much.
<jsgotangco> kudos Mizar
<mako> Seveas: a number of us can.. sabdfl did it at the last couple meetings i think
<mako> i've done it in the past too
<Seveas> Then there's only one item left, given that no one from the forums is here
<sabdfl> i can
<Kamion> I'll do it, shall I
<mako> i have two LP accounts and can never remember which one has this permissions :)
<sabdfl> go ahead :-)
<sabdfl> mako: merge them!
<Seveas> mako, you can merge them
<Seveas> lol :)
<ogra> merge :)
<Seveas> mako, launchpad can cure split personalities ;)
<dholbach> hehe
<mako> i've been meaning to. i didn't actually realize i had two until recently.. i was just pretty confused
<Diablo-D3> I like the concept of launchpad... only problem is not enough projects use it
<Kamion> benjamin approved in lp
<mako> Diablo-D3: there are people working on fixing that
<mako> so, are there any prospective new member with their name on the wiki that are here?
<Diablo-D3> being able to intergrate this in remote bugzillas and the debian db is great, but, still, its not the same thing
<Seveas> Diablo-D3, please stay on topic
<mako> seb payne, chris cole, zarul shahrin?
<Diablo-D3> sorry
<dholbach> mako: Anthony Mercatante?
<Kamion> seb payne said he'd turn up in 40 minutes from now
<ogra> dholbach, he's not listed
<Kamion> erm, no, 1 hour and 40 minutes
<Kamion> assuming he really meant GMT
<dholbach> Tonio-: didnt you add yourself?
<ogra> dholbach, he needs to be listed on the agenda too
<dholbach> mako: seb payne is spayne but apparently not here
<mako> alright
<mako> lets move on
<Seveas> Last item on the agenda: Initiation of voting to confirm Matthew Garrett appointment to Technical Board.
<mako> Tonio-: we can't really have 
<arzajac> What about the ubuntuforums^
<Seveas> arzajac, ubuntu-geek is not here
<mako> people adding new members to the agenda in the middle.. sort of a bad precedent i think'
<mako> yeah.. i feel like we skipped a bunch of items
<dholbach> Tonio-: :-(
<Tonio-> dholbach: I subscribe maybe 15 minutes ago not more, crazy day...
<mako> Seveas: lets at least go through and decide not to handle things for things that can be stated in the log
<Kamion> I don't understand why mjg59's TB appointment is being brought here
<Seveas> mako, right
<sabdfl> Kamion: it isn't, this is just the start of voting
<Kamion> TB appointments are confirmed by the maintainers, surely?
<sabdfl> i'll publish the details in a mail to ubuntu-devel shortly
<Kamion> ok
<Seveas> sabdfl, do all members get to vote?
<sabdfl> Seveas: no, for TB, it's all developers
<Seveas> or only maintainers?
<Seveas> ok
<sabdfl> for CC, all members
<mako> sabdfl: details on the MJG59 appointment?
<Diablo-D3> I'm not a ubuntu developer, but I do think mjc59 should get appointed to the Technical Board.
<sabdfl> mako: nomination
<sabdfl> we need to expand the TB a little
<sabdfl> i've discussed it with mdz and others, and mjg59 is very widely regarded, i think he is an excellent candidate
* ogra isnt sure if he should vote for the head of dccalliance.biz to join the TB :)
<mako> ok, right.. i missed that we never started the forums topic
<sabdfl> forums topic?
<Seveas> mako, ubuntu-geek is not here
<mako> sabdfl: i think it's a very good choice
<sabdfl> oh, the follow on
<Seveas> it would be pointless to start without him
<jsgotangco> ogra, hahaha
<ogra> :)
<arzajac> Seveas:  Not pointless.  He left some documents on the agenda.
<Diablo-D3> mjc59 has done a lot for Ubuntu, and I think he could do even more if he joins the TB
<azeem> ...
<mako> alright
<arzajac> The documenta are a work in progress and perhaps some comments from the CC would be helpful, at this point.
<mako> sabdfl: so short of an announcment, what needs to be handled here?
<Seveas> ogra, lol@dccalliance.biz :)
<sabdfl> mako: nothing, except to declare the ballot as open as soon as I can load the details into Launchpad
<sabdfl> vote will run for two weeks, giving mjg59 the chance to speak to people at next week's TB
<sabdfl> gosh
<sabdfl> are we done with members, just waiting for ubuntugeek?
<mako> i think it's a great idea to get bring someone from the communkty on that board, to expand the board, and to recognize matthew contributions :)
<mako> anyway!
<Seveas> There are no other thing left on the agenda that can be treated now sabdfl 
<sabdfl> further suggestions welcome
<hno73> arzajac: can you explain the forum issue?
<mako> apparently, the only thing left for today is forums stuff
<sabdfl> let's look at those documents in the meanwhile
<hno73> (he is a core forum member)
<jsgotangco> gosh and we have a good community presence at the moment...
<mako> Seveas: i'm not sure that no treatment at all is the best situation.. we've had a short meetings, we can take some time to look over things
<arzajac> hno73:  It is all on the agenda page.
<mako> Seveas: even if we hold off for ryan to go over this in more depth
<Seveas> arzajac, con you maybe ping ryan?
<Kamion> hno73: um, for the avoidance of doubt, arzajac is very firmly on one side of the debate, not a neutral observer :-)
<Kamion> we had all this last meeting
<hno73> Kamion: ok, thanks 
<Kamion> ok, I agree with arzajac that the ombudsmen's decisions when grievances are specifically brought to them need to be enforceable, otherwise there seems little point in having them
<Kamion> I don't agree that the ombudsmen should be obliged to monitor the forums more actively than the moderation team, as the second comment on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumResolutionTeam seems to imply
<mako> i'd like to see someone who has historically been outside of the forum community but who is respected inside the larger ubuntu community to particpate no dispute resolutions in the forums
<mako> i think that level of cross-fertilization in these sorts of groups can be healthy
<Kamion> it's the moderators' job to keep on top of that - ombudsmen should ideally be a little further away from things in order to keep a neutral point of view, IMO
<arzajac> Kamion:  I think the point is that they could serve as more than just a complaint department, but as a ressource for the administrators.
<Kamion> arzajac: it seems unnecessary to conflate those two things ...
<arzajac> OK.
<Kamion> I dunno, I'm not invoking any kind of authority here to say "don't do that", it just seems unnecessary and possibly unwise to me. FWIW.
<Kamion> other than that, it seems to me from your wiki page that there's a fair possibility of agreement here, following a bit more discussion
* mako nods
<smurf> arzajac: Being a complaints department is what an umbudsman is there for; if the people involved want to contribute in other areas, they can certainly do so individually
<Kamion> mako: from the point of view of having neutrality in the resolution process, that seems pretty sensible
<arzajac> Karmion. Yes, Ryan and I have had some conversations about this in the past two weeks.
<mako> i haven't ready it *very* carefully but have looked it over twice and both (esp, the first one) seems quite common sense
<Kamion> arzajac: ok, good
<arzajac> Smurf:  Ryan is often swa,ped.  My feeling is that a "public relations" committe would be useful to him.
<arzajac> swamped
<mako> i'd like to talk to ryan and maybe have some more people from the forums sort of step forward and say that they think that this will adequately address issues from the recent past
<Kamion> some of the technical support policies seem like they might be better phrased as guidelines
<smurf> arzajac: that doesn't necessarily mean the mbudsmen should do it ;-)
<Kamion> but that's just a matter of wording really
<mako> since the forums are one part of the community i spent very little time, i'm not entirely confident in my own ability to look at potential solutions to problems and evaluate their effectiveness.. i'd like to see what the community has to say
<arzajac> mako:  How about starting a thread in the ubuntufourms site discussion section about this?
<mako> arzajac: have these been discssed there yet?
<sabdfl> arzajac: as i understood it, the admin team has ryan as "chairman", and the ombudsman team effectively reports to the admin team
<sabdfl> is that your understanding too?
<mako> azeem: or your additions?
<arzajac> sabdfl:  It is a clear as it is on the document from Ryan.  I dunno.
<mako> alright.. 
<arzajac> mako:  There has not really been any formal discussion about it with the forum users.
<mako> i'm not sure we're going to get a decision today
<arzajac> Like I said, these documents are a work in progress...
<mako> can we summarize/offer what we think should be done before we talk about with this with ryan?
<sabdfl> in general, i like the direction ryan is going, and i also think some of arzajac's questions need answering
<mako> ne
<sabdfl> i think there should be more than 3 ombudsmen, but any 3 should be able to rule on something
<sabdfl> so you don't have to get all of them together to get a decision
<sabdfl> encourage members of the community who are very active to become ombudsmen
<mako> i'd like to suggest having the conflict resolution stuff should be a little more independent of the existing forums cabal for neutralitieis sake :)
<sabdfl> sort of a frst step towards being moderators / admins
<sabdfl> mako: the CC exists to give that neutrality
<Seveas> mako/sabdfl indeed -- moderators should not be ombudsmen
<sabdfl> i don't think the proposed ombudsmen would be in a position to resolve the conflict we saw between moderators and admins
<arzajac> If you want to impact the forum community, maybe we should start a thread there and participate in it over the next few days....
<mako> sabdfl: the CC has a rather poor record of dealing well with forums dispute.. we have a pretty poor vision in that area
<sabdfl> mako: so what we asked ryan to come up with is a reasonable governance structure internal to the forums
<smurf> sabdfl: maybe not resolve, but mediate -- and perhaps that's enough
<sabdfl> in addition, we asked him to have a "board", on which he would have only a casting vote, not absolute authority
<sabdfl> and even that would report to the CC
<arzajac> smurf:  Deffinitely, having things in the open is good.
<rejden> smurf, heya 
<\sh> sabdfl: then it should be installed for all active official ubuntu-forums...
<mako> yes, i understand how the discussion has gone so far
<sabdfl> we also asked the forums guys to change their policy w.r.t. hiding and removing debate
<sabdfl> i see evidence of good work from ryan in the right direction here
<rejden> smurf, sorry i have many meetings ;/
<arzajac> +1
* mako nods
<sabdfl> arzajac: i disagree with your comment that "the FRT should have authority over the administration"
<sabdfl> it should be:
<sabdfl> Baby Jesus
<ogra> really ? 
<Seveas> hm?
<sabdfl>   CC & SABDFL
<sabdfl>     Forum Admins Team & Ryan
<sabdfl>       Ombudsmen
<sabdfl> oh, you guys weren't in Oxford
<Seveas> ah 
<jsgotangco> baby jesus?
<sabdfl> oxford...
<Kamion> sabdfl: do you not think that ombudsmen's decisions on grievances should be final within the forums, then?
<Mithrandir> jsgotangco: baby jesus trumps all
<sabdfl> Kamion: it might happen that they take a really bad decision
<sabdfl> especially if you encourage more folks to become ombudsmen, and you get a mini-cabal
<Kamion> sabdfl: I wouldn't put it the same way arzajac did w.r.t. authority, but I do think that there's little point in having them unless they can enforce their decisions
<sabdfl> it can happen
<Kamion> sabdfl: that seems like the sort of thing that ought to come up to CC & SABDFL
<sabdfl> i would expect it to be very rare for the admins team to want to overrule, and same for the CC on the admins team
<arzajac> sabdfl:  Well, remember last meeting?
<sabdfl> yes, very well, what about it?
<Kamion> if ombudsmen's decisions were public and any admin overruling were also public, then we could leave it as it is and see how it goes
<Kamion> bad behaviour on the part of the admin team would become clear pretty quickly
<arzajac> The issue of the administration of the forum is mostly that they need to be accountable to someone
<smurf> Kamion: +1
<arzajac> Right.  If everyting is in the open, that solves a lot of problems... I agree.
<arzajac> So the accountability would stem from everyti8ng being in the open.
<sabdfl> and the CC being able to overrule the admins team
<sabdfl> as we basically did last time, in asking them to make their discussions public
<sabdfl> and not delete / hide posts that were partial
<mako> right
<arzajac> sabdfl:  with fine tuning the FRT jurisdiction to avoid every little problem making it's way to the Community Council agenda.
<mako> i think we're covering ground that we've already been on in this discussion and i think Seveas was right that we really need Ryan or others from teh admin team here here to finish with this discussion
<Kamion> mako: yeah, agreed
<arzajac> +1
<mako> i will make sure that ryan reads this log and we can plan a special meeting with a subset of interested folks if that's easier or revisit this at the next meeting
<mako> so...
<mako> is there any other business?
<Seveas> did you get my pm?
<sabdfl> arzajac: i think we would just refuse to deal with stuff that the admins team had already considered that did not look interesting to the CC
<sabdfl> sec
<jsgotangco> err BreezyReleaseParty plans?
<Seveas> jsgotangco, do you have any?
<sabdfl> the appointment of ombudsmen does need to be clarified, it's not clear
<mako> jsgotangco: i should plan one of those
<arzajac> ok.
<jsgotangco> Seveas, not really, just have people announce their plans during the meeting i guess
<sabdfl> we have the launchpad voting system, if you want to use it
<mako> well, i'll have one in boston this weekend
<jsgotangco> we're just 2 days away from release
<sabdfl> london on friday night
<jsgotangco> mako, in the acetarium??? hehe
<mako> jsgotangco: probably, yes
<mako> any other release parties?
<mako> watch ubuntu planet for details on my party
<sabdfl> tons on the wiki page
<mako> right
* bddebian will have one with his wife and kids ;-)
<mako> bddebian: nice :)
<mako> alright then
* \sh will have one with ogra + suse ;)
<mako> last call for ANY OTHER BUSINESS
<Seveas> short meeting then :)
<ogra> yeah
* mvo will have one in bochum
* dholbach will try to get something going in berlin, need to poke doko
<\sh> ogra: place for mvo ? ,-
<Seveas> mako, one thing in private message left, but nothing in here :)
* jsgotangco we have one in manila too big one
<mako> Seveas: the thing about lilo?
<ogra> \sh, sure
<mako> Seveas: that doesn't need to be handled here dude
<\sh> mvo: u have a big one, or a private one?
<mako> Seveas: we can just talk later today and handle it
<ogra> \sh, you two would have to share the guest room... but an extra air bed is always available 
<mako> anyway
<Seveas> mako, ah great, didn't know/expect that you would be around 
<mako> alright then
<mako> yeah.. its show and tell day at the media lab
<mako> but i should be on IRC :)
<mvo> \sh: medium I except: http://www.das-labor.org/
<mako> i'm missing it now
<mako> will be running off
<mako> cycle says
<mako> next meeting is October 25, UTC22
<mvo> s/except/expect/
<jsgotangco> yay
* mvo looks accuingly at his fingers
<mako> thanks to everyone for showing up :)
* mako pounds the gavel
<ogra> thanks mako :)
<Seveas> !meeting set CommunityCouncil 25 Oct 22:00
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 12 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Oct 22:00 UTC: CommunityCouncil
<jsgotangco> great
<mako> Seveas: whoa.. that's cool
<\sh> mvo: hehe...if it was a private one, i would say, come along ;)
<mako> alright.. time to bike in the rain
<mako> joy
<mako> later all
<Seveas> mako, yeah, a midnight-couldn't-sleep-hacksession brought that up :)
<thesaltydog> sorry for the dealy..
* thesaltydog => FabioMarzocca
<jsgotangco> thesaltydog, we just ended
<Seveas> thesaltydog, meeting is already over :)
<thesaltydog> ok... :-(
<thesaltydog> next time.
<thesaltydog> I was engaged in office..
<zakame> thesaltydog: awww
<HiddenWolf> thesaltydog, the office, openoffice, or MS Office? :P
<thesaltydog> that shit of work.
<\sh> ok...time to go home for me now...cu later guys
<Seveas> elmo, welcome, the meeting just finished :)
<bddebian> Heh
<spayne> sorry i'm late
<spayne> just got in
<spayne> what is going on then?
<zakame> spayne: meetings over :(
<spayne> that is very unfiar
<spayne> i was TOLD YOU WOULD WAIT FOR ME
<Kamion> told by whom? it's difficult to get everyone together for meetings, and two days before release everyone is frighteningly busy and can't spend two hours in a meeting ...
<spayne> Mark Shuttleworth?
<spayne> i said on the wiki
<spayne> this is very upsetting
<Kamion> if Mark said that, take it up with him ...
<zakame> There's always October 25
<spayne> it isn't my fault if i can't be there - i have work
<Kamion> so do we! :-)
<zakame> spayne: be at my side of the world then, 'tis 11:15pm here ;)
<Mizar> I'm going .... bye.
<zakame> definitely no work
<zakame> bye Mizar 
<spayne> zakame: please, don't 
<spayne> how can i ever become a member?
<spayne> my school doesn't finish until 3:30pm
<spayne> and it takes me 30 min to get home
<Seveas> Oct. 25 the meeting will be at 22:00 UTC
<spayne> oh wonderful!
<zakame> spayne: patience is a virtue ;)
<spayne> that is 11pm here
<spayne> zakame: i am very very annoyed - i put it on the wiki
<spayne> what is the point of you just ignoring i
<zakame> I would have presented myself again today, but I opted to make my contribution more sustained and significant :))
<Seveas> spayne, putting on the wiki that you will be late does *not* guarantee that people will stay.
<spayne> Seveas: when did the meating finished?
<Seveas> not too long before you arrived
<Seveas> but since the wiki said 16:00 we didn't wait
<zakame> spayne: hmmm, you do have some sense though, it is in the wiki that: "tell a member of the CommunityCouncil ahead of time that you will be unable to attend."
<Kamion> 16:00 GMT is 40 minutes from now
<Seveas> zakame, that's just not to get kicked out of the list :)
<spayne> zakame: so Mark Shuttleworth doesn't count?
<Seveas> zakame, you talked to Mark himself?
<zakame> Seveas: no
<Seveas> I meant spayne
<zakame> Seveas: yes, I was confused there :/
<spayne> Seveas: i talked to him yesterday (or Sunday) via irc
<Kamion> I'm sorry, but if you say that you're going to turn up two hours after a meeting starts, it's at best a matter of luck if people stay ...
<ogra> spayne, ask him why he didnt mentio it in the meeting, he's in #ubuntu-devel
<ogra> *mention
<Kamion> and if things are still going, then we'll take account of you, but it's harsh on people to have to stay around an extra hour after all other business is finished
<spayne> Kamion: they meeting started at 3:00pm my time did it not?
<spayne> it is now 16:25
<Kamion> you said "16:00 GMT"
<Kamion> that is 17:00 London time
<Kamion> (actually, you said "4:00pm GMT", but same difference)
<Kamion> we use GMT/UTC as a standard global timezone; if you quote times in that, we assume you've already converted from whatever your local timezone is
<spayne> Kamion: the next meeting is in half term for me
<spayne> Kamion: so i can make it
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-09
<zul> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 09 Oct 14:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 12:00: Edubuntu
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 09 Oct 10:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 08:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu
<Hawkwind> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 09 Oct 09:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 15:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 07:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu
<freeflying|away> @schedule Shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 09 Oct 22:00: MOTU | 11 Oct 04:00: Technical Board | 12 Oct 04:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 20:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu
<siretart> @time europe
<siretart> @time berlin
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Berlin: October 09 2006, 08:59:12 - Next meeting: MOTU in 7 hours 0 minutes
<ajmitch> hi siretart  :)
<siretart> heyho ajmitch!
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 09 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu
* dholbach hugs siretart
* siretart waves back
<siretart> :)
<sivang> @schdule Israel
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 09 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu
<lucas> @schedule paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 09 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu
<lucas> ok, won't make it.
<Fujitsu> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 09 2006, 09:38:35 - Next meeting: MOTU in 4 hours 21 minutes
<freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 09 Oct 22:00: MOTU | 11 Oct 04:00: Technical Board | 12 Oct 04:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 20:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: MOTU | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: Current meeting: MOTU | 11 Oct 04:00: Technical Board | 12 Oct 04:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 20:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu
<sivang> so, MOTU meeting is now?
<dholbach> anytime soon, yes
<Toadstool> hey here
<freeflying> hi all
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<zul> hi
<dholbach> OK everybody - welcome to the MOTU meeting
<Gloubiboulga> I can only stay ten minutes :/
<dholbach> We try to keep this meeting short, as we all want to get back to fixing the last bugs in Edgy. :-)
<dholbach> Our agenda is quite short, it's over here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<dholbach> First point on the agenda is: "Prepare check lists for Universe/Multiverse for release."
<dholbach> In the previous release cycles we always had lists of things we wanted to get done
<dholbach> like the python transition, the unmet dependency lists, ftbfs lists and other transitions
<dholbach> not to forget: Bug lists!
<dholbach> What do we have on the plate for Edgy release?
<Fujitsu> We ideally need to get a FTBFS list, 'cause an unmet deps. list is trivial...
<dholbach> Ok
<dholbach> 1) UnmetDeps list - easy to do, we can massfile bugs on that one
<Fujitsu> Yup.
<dholbach> 2) for the FTBFS list we can take the list of failed builds on launchpad
<dholbach> because I think that Adam (infinity) is too busy to do an archive rebuild at this stage.
<Fujitsu> dholbach, not really. A lot of things haven't been built in ages.
<Fujitsu> Yeah, true.
<dholbach> if anybody else has a feasible idea on that one, I'm all ears. :-)
<dholbach> Do we have any open transitions we don't get by looking at the unmet deps list?
<sivang> dholbach: what about the python transition, is it all done ?
<dholbach> sivang: for Universe: I doubt it
<sivang> I see :-/
<dholbach> sivang: doko_ fixed a lot and synced a lot from Debian, but I guess it's not complete (for Universe)
<sivang> yes, I see
<dholbach> Ok - anything else specific for the last days before release?
<dholbach> (If you can think of anything later on, just mail ubuntu-motu@)
<siretart> dholbach: we have that gnustep transition open
<dholbach> siretart: ah! how many packages does that involve?
<siretart> dholbach: you surely remember a series of UVF exceptions the last dats
<dholbach> siretart: yeah I do - are there other packages involved?
<siretart> dholbach: I'm not sure as I'm not familiar with gnustep at all
<dholbach> I see
<dholbach> I'll follow up with him.
<siretart> I remember a message from debian-release@lists.debian.org, that this transition isn't complete even in debian/etch
<dholbach> I'll write him after the meeting - let's hope we get that done for release
<siretart> ok
<sistpoty> what's that transition about... I remember quite a bunch of gnustep uploads at the beginning of edgy...
<geser> the gnustep transition will need several packages to be rebuilt or synced but I haven't checked in detail yet
<geser> I'm still trying to get all pieces built
<minghua> gnustep transition is almost finished in Debian from what I read from debian-release list
<minghua> some packages are still in NEW
<geser> gnustep-back needs to be built
<sivang> yes, also curious to know what the gnustep transition is about
<sistpoty> maybe s.o. could investigate and post to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c?
<dholbach> Ok, that sounds as if we're on a good way to get it fixed.
<siretart> yes, lets not block the meeting with that transitions. let's move on
<dholbach> For Universe/Multiverse Bugs:         1   75  of 2778 results            is, what I currently see.
<dholbach> What is a good way to address those bugs?
<dholbach> ( http://tinyurl.com/p7moy )
<StevenK> dholbach: Close the lot of them, of course.
<dholbach> ;-)
<dholbach> Right.
<Fujitsu> Write a script that iterates through and rejects them. Problem solved.
<StevenK> dholbach: Some of those 2778 probably apply to Hoary which can be found and slaughtered.
<Fujitsu> We have a bug-free universe.
<dholbach> I'm sure that a lot of old ones can indeed be rejected.
<Fujitsu> StevenK, probably.
<dholbach> that's rather a task for the opening of edgy+1
<Fujitsu> True...
<dholbach> in the process of uploading a fix for universe and multiverse in the last days we should always make sure to check the bugs in launchpad for that package
<dholbach> that way we can easily find bugs that can be closed with the upload and some even point to the debian bug with a patch
<Fujitsu> I've generally tried to do that for all of my uploads.
<dholbach> Fujitsu: Good work!
<dholbach> 1   75  of 157 results     Uni/Multiverse bugs with patches
<dholbach> those are lowhanging fruit, I guess
<siretart> dholbach: I don't really see what we as motu team can decide or discuss about high bugnumbers, besides encouraging to participate in bug squashing sessions
<dholbach> I'll write a mail to ubuntu-motu@ about that later on
<dholbach> siretart: I only try to identify low-hanging fruit
<dholbach> things we can get fixed easily.
<siretart> dholbach: what we can do is to try to create reports about how many bugs we have open, how many are confirmed, important and have a patch, and list them in a report
* StevenK makes a note to look at some of the bugs with patches when uni work has sent him insane.
<dholbach> siretart: nice idea - that would go well into a MOTU section on UWN
<sistpoty> from taking a glimpse on some bugs, some basic triaging (getting info etc.) might help... maybe we could do a hug day?
<siretart> in the hope that this encourages uploaders actually looking at bugs. debian has a weekly report about RC bugs
<dholbach> sistpoty: sure - sfllaw will be happy to see some people working on universe packages
<dholbach> Ok, I'll write a mail about Universe bugs.
<sistpoty> dholbach: great!
<dholbach> Who wants to massfile bugs on unmet deps?
<dholbach> I have a script for that - but if somebody else wants to do that, that's cool
<Fujitsu> I can do it, if others won't :)
<dholbach> Fujitsu: I think I'll also point to the failed builds on launchpad
<dholbach> Fujitsu: http://daniel.holba.ch/bzr/massfile
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<sistpoty> would be good to have the packagename in the bug title (i guess that was a script bug last time *g*) ;)
<dholbach> hehe :-)
<dholbach> ok, let's move on - if some of you have clever ideas which bugs/fixes to address - follow up on the mailing list
<siretart> and tag them! :)
<dholbach> 2) Find agreement on StableReleaseUpdates for Universe/Multiverse
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Fujitsu> Yes, that's particularly important to me, as I've got an update or two that need doing ;)
<siretart> dholbach: 1st question: do we have a -proposed upload target for universe?
<dholbach> Usually shortly after releases we get lots of requests for updates to <stable>-updated
<dholbach> -updates
<dholbach> siretart: I'm not quite sure, I'll investigate and let you all know.
<sistpoty> just curious: did anyone do a SRU for uni/multiverse recently?
<dholbach> not recently
<siretart> dholbach: is someone only who we can ask? because I think this could be important for our further discussion of this point
<siretart> s/only/online/. gnarf
<siretart> sistpoty: I think LaserJock tried to do one, but mdz told him that we need a process for that first
* lfittl is now here too, sry for being late
<siretart> sistpoty: thats why we are discussion that here
<dholbach> I asked in #ubuntu-devel
<siretart> thanks
<sistpoty> imo the entry barrier as proposed in SRU-updates is too high for universe... 
<dholbach> that's my feeling too, sistpoty
<Fujitsu> siretart, I see an SRU for matplotlib by LaserJock.
<sistpoty> maybe we could get s.th. like motu-uvf in place for SRU policies and just get a final ack after the -proposed upload from ubuntu-archive?
<siretart> Fujitsu: oh. i see
<dholbach> <dholbach> What is the current state of -proposed? Does it work? Does it work for universe and multiverse as well?
<sivang> what's the SRU?
<dholbach> <Kamion> dholbach: working but restricted by policy (StableReleaseUpdates); yes; yes
<dholbach> sivang: STABLE RELEASE UPDATES
<sivang> dholbach: ah, right, sorry ! :-)
<dholbach> *cough* :)
<sivang> hehe
* StevenK waits for his ears to stop ringing.
<siretart> I like sistpoty's idea (in fact, I wanted to propose something similar)
<dholbach> sistpoty: how do you think the testing process should work?
<dholbach> ... testing part of the process ...
<sistpoty> dholbach: just some ideas so far...:
<sistpoty> only updates allowed with bug numbers
<sistpoty> then we could "abuse" the ppl. filing the bugs to participate in testing
<siretart> (they are likely interested in actually testing fixed packages)
<sistpoty> the motu-uvf-alike team would also need to do some basic tests I guess
<dholbach> yeah that's the interesting part of the question: who do we ask to test?
<dholbach> bug reporters: good idea
<siretart> dholbach: the bug submitters and subscribed ppl to that lp bug
<dholbach> motu-uvf: bad idea - too much mails already ;-)
<dholbach> siretart: do you think that's enough?
<siretart> dholbach: let's call that group 'motu-sru'
<sistpoty> yay
<sistpoty> of course the uploader needs to test thoroughly *g*
<siretart> dholbach: I think yes. we cannot afford the same level of testing as in main
<dholbach> and that would be people who agree to do tests in the stable release now and then?
<rmjb> uvf?
<dholbach> rmjb: upstream version freeze
<dholbach> What about mailing them to UWN and announcing them - for people to test and have a look?
<siretart> dholbach: I don't understand, announce what exactly?
<dholbach> that would make sure we have a reasonably big tester community
<dholbach> "fixed packages of <...> available for testing."
<siretart> in form of a report section of UWN? sounds great!
<dholbach> yeah
<minghua> sounds a good idea, but I'm not sure how well that will work
<Fujitsu> Although some bugs already have large communities built up around them, so have a large testing ground already :P
<sistpoty> dholbach: sounds great... maybe we could increase the testing time a little bit (2-4 weaks?)?
<Toadstool> dholbach: and point the testers to the sru bug report, otherwise we'll get a whole load of dupes :)
<sivang> Yes, sounds like UWN would encourage people to do testing.
<siretart> minghua: we have to test. do you have another proposal?
<dholbach> because we need to get thorough testing done: be honest: all of us run the development release and seldomly test stuff in the last stable
<minghua> I have some input method related package I want to propose for SRU, but I doubt many testers are interested in testing them
<sistpoty> dholbach: so that proposed will become a kind of testing *g*
<dholbach> sistpoty: >= 2 weeks - yes, what I thought
<sivang> dholbach: well, setting up a dapper chroot is not hard :)
<siretart> dholbach: how does the -propsed queue work? do uploads get automatically built and published?
<minghua> siretart: not really, but I think the uploader/proposer should be more responsible
<dholbach> sivang: thoroughly using it, is
<dholbach> minghua: we have a cjk-testers team in launchpad - maybe you could subscribe them to that bug?
<dholbach> siretart: yes, in the <stable>-proposed section
<sistpoty> just a side though: we should try to limit new upstream versions though, maybe only for utterly broken packages or small diffs, since these would be a target for -backports imo
<sivang> so, that measn testers will have to have another box runnign dapper..
<minghua> dholbach: a lot of bugs I want to fix have cjk-testers subscribed, not much activity from what I see
<dholbach> sistpoty: agreed
<siretart> dholbach: cool. I imagined that would be a moderated queue, similar to NEW or something
<sivang> sistpoty: indeed, make a lot of sense.
<dholbach> minghua: you could try to prod jono about making the team more active - maybe ask in the loco teams to get people involved there
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, of course.
<minghua> dholbach: sure, I'll think more about this
<dholbach> Wow, looks like we got some good ideas on that one.
<siretart> :)
<minghua> I'm just expressing my interest on SRU for universe here :-)
<sistpoty> for testing, maybe we could make some silly "acks >= n" guidelines for packages, to see if updating in fact makes sense
<dholbach> Anyone wants to add something to it?
<dholbach> minghua: :-)
<freeflying> minghua: anything relate to zh_CN, ubuntu-cn would like test 
<minghua> I think strict ack >= n is a good idea
<dholbach> might be a bit tough for obscure packages
<sivang> sistpoty: I'd say not >= , but they will have to provide X benefits on ground which we will update them.
<dholbach> but this is something we'll figure out along the way
<minghua> freeflying: not really, the things I have in my head is scim-chewing and scim-m17n
<minghua> freeflying: but thanks for the information
<sivang> so having something like "Does it fulfill A,B,C and E? okay let's update"
<dholbach> We need to flesh out this process perfectly, so it'll be easy for people to get involved in approving, forwarding, testing, etc
<minghua> freeflying: on the other hand, most zh_CN related scim stuff are in main anyway
<sistpoty> I wouldn't make it a strict policy (as dholbach just mentioned)... but rather a guideline which the sru-team could still override
<freeflying> minghua: but we wtill can test
<dholbach> yeah
<rmjb> testing on stable can be done in a virtual appliance? if users are running development?
<dholbach> Ok - let's put all of this into a wiki page later on and work on it together
<sivang> rmjb: for sure
<minghua> back to the ack >= n thing - if we can't get enough acks, it should mean not many users are interested in this package, shouldn't it?
<siretart> did we agree on a 'motu-sru' team? how many members and what quorum do we want to have?
<sivang> and when Xen is ready in edgy, it will even come out of the box IIRC.
<dholbach> I have the feeling that we won't solve the process entirely today.
<sivang> we need to start with somethign modest,
<sivang> and refine the process as we go
<sistpoty> minghua: it would... but some obscure packages that are utterly broken anyway would get of starved from this... so I'd make it just a guideline which can be overridden...
<sivang> *something
<Fujitsu> dholbach, of course, there is a lot to be decided.
<dholbach> Yes
<sivang> We can start with a very basic set of guidlines, and see what more we require by experience
<rmjb> the sru will also apply to dapper since that's LTS or does that already have something in place?
<sistpoty> minghua: also, testing by s.o. who's really knowing what he's doing is worth more then 5 tests of ppl. who don't have much clue ;)
<minghua> freeflying: you mean ubuntu-cn can still test packages in main, or test packages not about zh_CN?
<dholbach> I'll start on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/SRU later on and will try to make the wiki page so everybody can add their proposal in easily
<dholbach> we should discuss the strict guidelines in another meeting
<siretart> or perhaps on the mailing list
<dholbach> good idea too
<sistpoty> +1
<sivang> +1
<Fujitsu> +1
<dholbach> so it gets some eyeballing before we finally agree in a meeting
<freeflying> minghua: we'd like test anything we can do :)
<siretart> next item?
<minghua> sistpoty: very true.  if some one is willing to be responsible for the upload, then things can be overridden. :-)
<dholbach> MOTU Build Farm and Donation (HW, CPU time, and $) process (JordanMantha)
<dholbach> laserjock is not here
<dholbach> I think we probably should leave this one out for the next meeting - what do you guys think?
<sistpoty> yep
<minghua> is TheMuso here?
<TheMuso> TO be honest, I think its something that should be discussed on the ml.
<siretart> dholbach: perhaps you can give some details about this proposal?
<minghua> the proposal mail to -motu is his
<TheMuso> Its not something thats easily talked about on IRC>
<bddebian> I think some should just send me a PPC, Sparc, and amd64 and be done with it.. ;-P
<siretart> bddebian: I have a spare ultra1 ;)
<dholbach> siretart: I have no idea
<dholbach> siretart: it's his item :)
<siretart> ic
<siretart> hm. the original proposal was from Luke Yelavich 
<siretart> dholbach: can we abuse edgy-proposed for that?
<TheMuso> A few of us were talking about it in -motu earlier today, and were throwing ideas around, but due ot the complexity of what might have to be done, I feel it it would be easier on the mailing list.
<dholbach> siretart: for what?
<TheMuso> IMO
<Fujitsu> I think this is fairly important, because I've run into a couple of bugs/FTBFSes in various things that only appear in PPC or [insert other obscure architecture here] . It's pretty much impossible to debug this sort of stuff without access to machines of the target architecture.
<siretart> dholbach: testuploading packages to see if they build on all architectures or for testing of patches?
<Fujitsu> And not all of us have non-x86 machines.
<dholbach> hmrmhrmhmrmhrmhrmhrmhrmhr
<dholbach> I don't like the idea much - the buildds are usually somewhat blocked already
<TheMuso> I wasn't thinking of using the build servers.
<siretart> dholbach: buildds can be prioritized. I imagine that very low priority
<Fujitsu> *cough* openoffice *cough* kde *cough*
<dholbach> not blocked, but you know that other stuff will be delayed
<dholbach> I don't like the idea much
<TheMuso> I am very well aware of their busy schedule.
<dholbach> you can ask on #ubuntu-devel - as it's not my decision
<sistpoty> imo it's not so much the problem to test if a package builds on all arches before a package is uploaded, but rather to get access to arch-xy if there is a build-failer on that arch
<TheMuso> Has everybody here read the original email I sent?
<sistpoty> failure even
<minghua> TheMuso: I read :-)
* sivang looks for the email
<minghua> I think TheMuso's idea is not really a build farm, but something like Debian's developer's machine for all archs
<minghua> which MOTUs can log in and do test builds or debugging
<minghua> TheMuso: is that correct?
<minghua> and in that case we don't need the official buildds
<minghua> some machines in a MOTU's house works just fine
<TheMuso> minghua: SOmewhat. I was thinking of something where anybody who has hardware can donate its use for building/testing, but on a purely volintary basis.
<Fujitsu> Like what a couple of people do now.
<TheMuso> And have such systems in place so that if a user donates hardware, but has low bandwidth, their systems only build small packages. Same with CPU speed, and times of day.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Exactly.
<TheMuso> ajmitch raised some interesting points about security. I'd have to dig back through my -motu logs to find them however.
<_MMA_> Hello all. LaserJock and I talked at some length about this. I have a AMD AM2 4600+ machine that I would like to compile packages on. Currently I cant package. I wanna learn but my current situations gives me limited time to learn new things. So we discussed I could process files without configuring everything.
<_MMA_> I also wanted to donate some $ for hardware.
<dholbach> Can we start getting ideas together on a wiki page for that?
<dholbach> It looks like it's not something we can decide easily
<TheMuso> Thats a good idea.
<sistpoty> hm... just as a side idea: maybe we could also form amd64/sparc/ppc/whatever teams, that have access to that hw and to whom we could assign arch-specific bugs to. usually it's easy for s.o. who has that arch to fix the bug because he will know what's the problem
<StevenK> That's a big assumption.
<sistpoty> well.. usually as in for the easy fixes... of course there are tough tasks, which the team could reject then
<StevenK> I own an sparc64 and a parisc, doesn't mean I know anything about how the software functions in comparsion to an i386
<TheMuso> StevenK: Same with myself and my ppc.
<rmjb> sistpoty: with this proposal the person with the knowledge of the package can fix the bug since they'll have access to the different arches
<dholbach> we could add a subpage to the wiki about people and their hardware
<sistpoty> rmjb: sure... it was just an extra idea on top of that
<dholbach> and decide on a process to form those teams, etc
<tomveens> wiki idea: need a spokesperson for the page a one point to communicatie with about HW donation
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Machines ;-)
<sistpoty> the motu-machines :)
<TheMuso> heh
<dholbach> we can add all the security worries, process ideas, lists, mail addresses, everything to it
<tomveens> who's first?
<dholbach> I suggest we do that before we start to decide on something :)
<dholbach> but it was great to see some ideas thrown into the mix ;-)
<TheMuso> dholbach: Agreed. I just wanted to get it out in the open.
<dholbach> TheMuso: thanks a lot for that.
<TheMuso> np
<dholbach> next time and date?
<dholbach> I'd like to have it after the release
<Fujitsu> A couple of days after?
<TheMuso> Does anybody mind if I create the wiki page dholbach suggested above
<dholbach> Fujitsu: sounds good
<Fujitsu> Go ahead, dholbach.
<tomveens> okay
<TheMuso> SO I can flesh out my original proposal a little more?
<dholbach> between release and UDS, after?
<Fujitsu> Oops, *TheMuso, not dholbach.
<TheMuso> :)
<dholbach> Ok, we can handle that on the mailing list as well.
<dholbach> Thanks a lot everybody for coming to the meeting!
<TheMuso> np
<sistpoty> thanks for the meeting ;)
<dholbach> Have a good time until the release - I know you're all going to ROCK!
<Fujitsu> THanks for running it :)
<dholbach> de rien :)
<Fujitsu> No, no rocking. Sleeping now :P
* dholbach goes to write a couple of mails :-)
<dholbach> Fujitsu: sleep tight.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: SOunds like a plan.
<TheMuso> That page is going up tomorrow.
<Fujitsu> Thanks dholbach :)
<Fujitsu> Good idea, TheMuso.
<Fujitsu> 'tis late.
<Fujitsu> Or early.
<TheMuso> Yeah. And I don't feel very awake. :p
<Fujitsu> Neither.
<Fujitsu> See you all on the morrow.
<bddebian> Hey, what'd I miss.  Can you all start over? ;-P
<Hobbsee> bddebian: heh
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-10
<tonyyarusso> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 08:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Fujitsu> @schedule Melbourne
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Melbourne: 11 Oct 06:00: Technical Board | 12 Oct 06:00: Edubuntu | 13 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 22:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> @schedule ROME
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Burgundavia> @schedule boston
<Burgundavia> @schedule new york
<Burgundavia> @schedule americas/boston
<Burgundavia> @schedule US/boston
<shawarma> *g*
<Burgundavia> @schedule US/new york
<GNAM> .
<Burgundavia> grumble
<GNAM> @schedule america/boston
<GNAM> @schedule america/new york
<GNAM> .
<GNAM> .
<Burgundavia> ah
<neuralis> @schedule new_york
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 08:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> usausas
<Burgundavia> just saw that
<neuralis> i win. ;)
<Burgundavia> @schedule vancouver
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Vancouver: 10 Oct 13:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 13:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 05:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 05:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Burgundavia> neuralis: you do
<tonyyarusso> You say @schedule once.......
<Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: it is 3am here. I don't want to have to figure out timezones
<Burgundavia> that is why computers do well
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: Yeah, I'm just amused how everyone does it at once.
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso, waiting for people to break the ice!
<tonyyarusso> It's like a tray of cookies at a church dinner.  Nobody wants to take the first one.
<Fujitsu> Exactly.
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 08:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<tepsipakki> @schedule finland
<tepsipakki> bah
<tepsipakki> @schedule helsinki
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Helsinki: 10 Oct 23:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 23:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 15:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<lfittl> @schedule vienna
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vienna: 10 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jdong> cool
<jdong> @schedule detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 10 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 08:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jdong> 45 minutes... :)
<Toadstool> @schedule Los_angeles
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 10 Oct 13:00: Technical Board | 11 Oct 13:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 05:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 05:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<pitti> hi
* keescook waves hi
<jdong> hi pitti
<pitti> hi jdong 
* smurf actually manages to make it to a meeting
<zul> hi pitti 
* jdong hasn't been to one of these in ages :)
<mdz> morning
<jdong> afternoon, mdz :)
* ogra waves
<smurf> mdz, jdong: -EWRONGTIMEZONE
<ajmitch> morning
<jdong> AFTERNOON
<smurf> night ;-)
<mdz> welcome all
<tepsipakki> good evening <yaawwwn> ;)
<mdz> kristog proposed a discussion item for the agenda
<Keybuk> mdz: are you going to drive, or shall I?
<mdz> but there doesn't seem to be a kristog present
<mdz> Keybuk: I've got it
<mdz> does anyone know Riccardo Setti  / kristog?
<Keybuk> he's on #ubuntu-devel
<kristog> hello 
<mdz> kristog: you're up
<mdz> tell us what you want to discuss
<kristog> mdz, * i wanted ask if people.ubuntu.com could provide web space for all UbuntuMembers
<kristog> as people.debian.org/~developer do
<mdz> kristog: what would this space be used for?
<kristog> i , but i guess other people, could need space for put theyr work
<mdz> can you give some examples?
<kristog> mdz, ubuntu work, png, doc, debs
<sivang> hi all
<kristog> mdz, take a look on people.debian.org/~giskard
* sivang waves
<jdong> mdz: the most common application I can think of would be a personal APT repo
<kristog> mdz, i need to put a .debdiff file 
<mdz> kristog: is that your directory?
<kristog> mdz yes
<kristog> jdong, no, i don't think so
<Keybuk> jdong: personal APT archives are something that Launchpad intends to provide
<ogra> kristog, well, if you keep *everything in a bzr branch you caqn just use launchpad ;)
<jdong> kristog: most of the other things I can think of can be attached to malone
<mdz> jdong: publishing something on people.ubuntu.com lends a certain officiality to it; I'm not sure that should apply to all members when it comes to producing packages
<jdong> or hosted as bzr branches on LP
<jdong> mdz: yeah, certainly point taken. I'm not voicing an opinion one way or another yet :)
<mdz> kristog: what is the .debdiff for?
* Toadstool waves
<kristog> jdong, yes, but i cannot say to  people that they have to use bzr for *download*  a .deb
<mdz> kristog: if it's a patch for a package in Ubuntu, it would be better to put it in Launchpad
<kristog> mdz, yes .debdiff was an example.
<jdong> kristog: malone is useful for that
<kristog> but i cannot attach .deb
<jdong> kristog: why not?
<Keybuk> mdz: otoh, it does seem ... odd that people.u.c is limited to canonical staff; and not at least core-dev members, no?
<mjg59> Sorry, hi
<raphink> hi
<pitti> hi mjg59 
<jdong> kristog: I attach debs for backports quite often
<kristog> hello mjg59 
<mdz> Keybuk: it's liimted to a pretty arbitrary and inconsistent group of people afaik
* smurf agrees with keybuk
<sivang> Keybuk++
<Keybuk> e.g. there is no people.u.c/~mjg59
<mdz> Keybuk: and I'm not arguing that, only the specific proposal on the table atm
<jdong> I'd personally lean core-dev and possibly MOTU also
<Keybuk> of course, elmo knows where I live ...
<sivang> hehe
<sivang> Keybuk: should have thought about this before :-)
<kristog> mdz, i use my ~ for this kind of stuff, but people should use it for other things (related to ubuntu)
<Keybuk> I'm not sure that this is something the TB can make a decision on?
<mdz> Keybuk: not directly, but we should have an opinion
<Keybuk> or, at least, an effectual decision
<kristog> Keybuk,  i don't know sorry if this is not the right place :(
<mjg59> I think there are technical arguments in favour of providing a resouce with reasonable bandwidth for developers to distribute files from
<Keybuk> we give @ubuntu.com e-mail to every member
<Keybuk> so it would fit that they also got people.uc/~ as well
<mdz> I think that it is entirely appropriate for the project to have a place for contributors to place content, but there is some question in my mind about the particulars
<Keybuk> the "official distribution" moniker would equally apply if they sent it from that e-mail address, no?
<jdong> what are the use cases for a ~username that malone/launchpad wouldn't be appropriate?
<jdong> other than the PPA's
<Keybuk> jdong: launchpad lacks download areas  (I've complained about this from a strictly "LP as an SF replacement" POV)
<mjg59> Well, in the launchpad case there's the basic problem that it doesn't have the functionality and someone would need to write it
<jdong> mmm, ok, so for _releasing_ arbitrary files
<mjg59> Whereas the ~ space is just a simple matter of configuration
<Keybuk> not really
<Keybuk> it needs a box allocated for it
<Keybuk> accounts copied from launchpad
<Keybuk> access control somehow arranged (libpam_lp?)
<mjg59> Well, that's still likely to be less work than launchpad integration
<Keybuk> ssh logins or just sftp?
<mdz> mjg59: there's a bit more to it than that; there are substantive issues about authentication, access control, quotas, appropriate content, etc. which would need to be included
<mjg59> But yeah, admittedly there are various issues
<ogra> but as i understood sabdfl in th epast it shall also provide something to have your own repo with packasges built from your bzr branches
<mdz> this should be considered entirely separate from the current rookery setup for canonical, I expect it would be an entirely new service
<jdong> a home folder sounds like a temporary workaround for desired launchpad features?
<Keybuk> indeed, rookery has been too much of a "staff machine" to just open up
<sivang> ogra: yes, probably as PPA's
<mdz> ogra: yes, it will
<kristog> mdz, yes, i agree with you.
<Keybuk> it would be too much of an audit
<kristog> simira, PPA?
<mdz> which is one of the reasons why there need to be concrete examples of how this service would be used
<pitti> kristog: personal package archives
<mdz> which are not already planned for launchpad
<kristog> pitti,  thank you.
<jdong> if we're speaking of LP as a SF, then being a ubuntu member doesn't seem like an appropriate requirement for posting packages to download
<sivang> mdz: s/not// ?
<mdz> PPA = personal packages archives = a facility provided by launchpad for publishing .debs in a repository for use with apt
<Keybuk> mdz: much as the existing staff use their people areas?  random files uploaded for other people to download
<Keybuk> it's not just debs
<mdz> sivang: no
<Keybuk> a quick glance at mine shows various bits and bobs
<pitti> yeah, I use mine for screenshots, patches, etc., too
* ogra doesnt dare to look at his rubbish ....
<mdz> my public_html has: 1) branches (which now belong on the supermirror)
<mdz> 2) random files which apply to bug reports (which should now be attachments in launchpad)
<mdz> 3) packages (which will belong in PPAs soon)
<pitti> my ~/public_html/bugpatterns/ is an interesting case
<mdz> 4) random photos from Ubuntu events
<Keybuk> I have a lot of "files I wanted somebody to look at"
<pitti> it's functionality that *should* eventually go to LP, but isn't net
<mdz> that's pretty much it for me
<jdong> pitti: yeah, that's what I'm getting out of this
<mdz> a few other things which have moved elsewhere
<pitti> so, they are nice for using as a staging area for future LP features
<kristog> jdong, in fact we have a wiki a bugtrack a bzr repo, we can do what we want with this services, but in the last 3 weeks i said a lot of times, why i have to put XXXX on my ~ on people.d.o and not on people.u.com
<mdz> pitti: what is that?
<sivang> pitti: what's http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/bugpatterns/ used for ?
<keescook> it's a repo for apport to check for common crashes
<pitti> mdz, sivang: I recently announced it to ubuntu-devel, let me find the archive link
<smurf> pitti: "staging area" isn't entirely appropriate here, I'd call it "random junk"  ;-)
<mdz> pitti: never mind, I'll see it when I catch up on lists
<mdz> s/when/if/
<sivang> pitti: ah, keescook explained it, thanks.
<pitti> unfortunately my network sucks ATM, so new connections take ages
<mjg59> I think one interesting example is the set of "unofficial" services on people.debian.org
<mjg59> Like alternative interfaces to mailing list archives
<keescook> bugpatterns> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-October/021502.html
<pitti> keescook: thanks
<Keybuk> mjg59: at that point we're talking about more than just a "download area" -- and have elevated it to "shell account"
<mjg59> Keybuk: Right
<mjg59> Keybuk: I think that useful things have come out of that, and so we ought to consider whether to provide a similar service
<mdz> shell accounts for all members would not be workable
<mdz> for -core-dev, possibly
<kristog> mdz, why not for all member?
<mdz> but realistically, Canonical is the only entity in a position to offer this service (and there is a substantial amont of work associated with it, both for setup and manitenance) so we would need to demonstrate a benefit to them
<mdz> kristog: security
<kristog> mdz, please explain :) 
<mdz> kristog: handing out shell accounts as liberally as we grant membership is unwise for security reasons.
<mdz> that won't fly
<Keybuk> kristog: giving shell accounts on a machine in the canonical data centre to every ubuntu member ... it would be hard to get canonical to accept that risk
<ajmitch> kristog: you've seen the issues with debian infrastructure at times, with ssh/gpg keys left open & abused
<Keybuk> ajmitch: it takes a year or more to get access to the debian machines
<ajmitch> the bar for membership is much lower than that for debian
<kristog> ajmitch, yes, but afaik only 1 time we had problem
<Keybuk> our membership process is MUCH easier
<kristog> Keybuk, yes, but we should trust people
<kristog> we as ubuntu
<ajmitch> Keybuk: I agree, and many members wouldn't understand some of the issues with security either
<mdz> kristog: in response to your /msg, becoming a Debian developer is nothing like becoming an ubuntu member
* sivang feels this could be beneficial for core-dev, can't really see how it's integrated for members.
<smurf> kristog: security unfortunately doesn't work with a "should trust" metric
<kristog> mdz, yes, but it's not a signed gpg key that make the difference
<mdz> kristog: and, I might add, Debian has had more than one disastrous security incident involving a breach of one or more of those shell accounts
<Keybuk> kristog: why?  I wouldn't expect it to take long before people applied for membership simply to get a free shell account, and then used that for various illegal activities
<sivang> that's a very good point.
<kristog> sivang, yes, poeple is bad
<kristog> but i guess we shouldn't start with this kind of argomentation.
<kristog> for example : i can attach an illegal mp3 to LP 
<Keybuk> mjg59: thoughts on shell accounts?
<pitti> kristog: but you still cannot hack the data center with bug attachments
<jdong> kristog: you can do a lot more destructive things faster with a shell account
<smurf> kristog: but it's obvious when you do that. What you do in your own shell account somewhere isn't.
<jdong> and SF also has compromise issues with their shell servers
<mjg59> Keybuk: I think it would be desirable to provide them, but as noted it's not reasonable to offer them to all members
<mdz> I expect that shell accounts would not be an option for a broad subset of contributors
<mdz> it's simply too much security risk and administrative hassle
<pitti> ++
<mdz> more likely would be a WebDAV share
<mdz> or sftp
<pitti> also, web space is easy to get and cheap or free nowadays
* keescook agrees
<jdong> pitti: heh, tell me that as a broke student :)
<pitti> jdong: students usually have shell accounts in universities
<mdz> my universities gave me free web space and shell accounts
<pitti> I certainly had *more* bw and storage space than I have now :)
<mdz> some of which I still have
<mdz> being a student should be an advantage in this case, not a disadvantage
<Keybuk> jdong: http://pages.google.com/
<pitti> so, an upload area would be great, but shell accounts are not necessary for most use cases
<pitti> so I wouldn't give them out by default
<kristog> mdz, pitti yes, but i'm doing officially ubuntu work why i cannot put it on an official ubuntu space?
<sivang> pitti++
<pitti> if a particular member has an idea for a project that requires shell access, this can still be discussed on a case-by-case basis
<pitti> e. g. working together with someone who has a shell account, and using bzr branches, or so
<Seveas> I'd love to be able to put the various rss feeds I maintain on people.ubuntu.com -- bandwith usage is killing me 
<pitti> kristog: as I said, an upload area (sftp only) would be nice
<sivang> pitti: like specific mass process scripts for certain stuff.
<kristog> pitti, right.
<pitti> sivang: since that will have a considerable resource impact, it should be discussed with the admins anyway
<sivang> pitti: indeed, that's why it's in only special and specific cases :)
<Keybuk> Seveas's rss feeds take all the bandwidth away from the archive?
<mdz> kristog: I have done work on a lot of projects without having those projects give me a free shell account or web space
<ajmitch> note that we do have tiber (revu.tauware.de) for some stuff
<pitti> I know that many tasks require mass-processing (I'm hogging rookery with all sorts of weird stuff, too), but we shouldn't give that away *by default* to everyone
<mdz> it's not a typical arrangement
<sivang> indeed.
<ajmitch> a number of MOTUs have accounts & space on tiber
<dholbach> (which is the revu host)
<sivang> are they canonical machines?
<dholbach> no, revu.tauware.de
<ajmitch> not in the data centre
<sivang> ah
<mdz> I think we have a consensus that it would be useful to have a service to allow some Ubuntu contributors to publish content on the web at no cost
<mdz> but further discussion is needed (esp. with the CC and Canonical) to estiblish the specifics of what can be put into place
<mdz> Keybuk,mjg59: can we agree there and follow up accordingly?
<Keybuk> I agree
<mjg59> Yup
<mdz> ok, I will follow up via email
<mdz> to CC and Canonical sysadmin
<mdz> (and TB of course)
<mdz> when there is something to announce it will go to -devel-announce
<mdz> kristog: thanks for bringing this up; it's something which ought to be given serious consideration
<kristog> mdz, Keybuk  mjg59 thank you
<mdz> on to -core-dev
<Keybuk> On cooooorrre dev tonight
<mdz> there have been three applicants since the last meeting
<mdz> Joao Zanella, "okaratas" and Butch Bristow
<mjg59> Any of them here?
<mdz> dholbach: did you receive responses to your pings of any of those?
<ajmitch> hm, none of those really sound familiar :)
<dholbach> mdz: I notified you about each and everyone of them
<Keybuk> . o O { I know a Flash Bristow ;) }
<mdz> none of them are MOTU yet
<dholbach> mdz: I need to compile that list (people <-> date of mail) still -  I was too busy.
<ajmitch> mdz: I presume that launchpad can't enforce that people have to be members of one team to try & join another?
<mdz> dholbach: did you send me the template you use to explain the process, i.e. joining motu first?
<mdz> ajmitch: I don't think so, no
<Keybuk> ajmitch: we don't always enforce a strict ubuntu-dev -> ubuntu-core-dev progression
<mdz> we could set it up so that no one could apply for -core-dev directly, and would need to ask an administrator
<Keybuk> ajmitch: some people have gone straight to the latter
<mdz> anyone applying for -core-dev ought to know who to talk to
<mdz> and it's in launchpad anyway
<dholbach> mdz: I sent you a explanation you put in the launchpad team description
<Keybuk> mdz: that would be tricky ... we'd have to keep a manual list of those people
<Keybuk> the fact that we have a little date-sorted pending table atm is rather useful
<mdz> dholbach: ah, right, that's where I stashed it
<mdz> Keybuk: I think it's useful for -dev, but not really for -core-dev
<mdz> it's much smaller and more stable
<mdz> the vast majority of the applicants there are random people probing the system to see what they can do
<Keybuk> my experience is that people just click "Join Team" in an Orkut/Myspace style on everything they see
<jdong> lol
<mdz> yes
<mdz> well, I'm going to go through the -core-dev list and decline everyone who isn't in -dev
<mdz> I think there are a few there who were deferred at a meeting but not declined in LP also
<tepsipakki> the wikis should also be updated to point out clearly that the path is member -> dev -> core-dev
<mdz> I'll see if I can clean those up
<mdz> tepsipakki: I wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers to start clarifying the process
<mdz> it needs better linkage
<tepsipakki> ah, yes.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaintainerCandidates is a bit older
<mdz> anyway, moving on
<Keybuk> ubuntu-dev
<mdz> there seem to be 5 -dev applicants
<mdz> one of them is also okaratas
<mdz> sbalneav doesn't seem to be present
<jdong> mdz: I'm also here to be considered for -dev (my name has been on the list for a very long time, sorry, I know)
<mdz> mpgirijadevi@rediffmail.com is a very strange realname
<ogra> nope, he's on his way home
<mdz> jdong: indeed it has
<tepsipakki> I've been on that list for a while now, but since I've had no net at home participation in these meetings has been.. difficult ;)
<mdz> jdong: that means you get to go first
<jdong> oh boy... :)
<jdong> so how does it usually work? you guys ask the questions?
<ogra> you give a three line intro
<jdong> hi, I'm jdong.. you probably know me from Backports or the forums
<jdong> I'm recently been more and more interested in becoming MOTU
<jdong> I've found myself scratching at more and more bug reports
<jdong> and some Backports work requires reaching into universe
<mdz> jdong: you should read  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers and give an introduction which shows how you fit the guidelines for joining
<jdong> ah, didn't know bout that
* jdong reads
<mdz> it's new :-)
<mdz> if you'd like to take a few minutes and prepare while someone else presents, that's fine with me
<jdong> well, I think I've worked with ubuntu and the developers enough to understand most packaging concepts
<jdong> and development processes around here
* jdong looks for something else to say....
<mdz> jdong: can you give us some examples of packaging work you have done?
<mdz> jdong: have you had uploads sponsored for you by existing members of the development team?
<jdong> mdz: yeah, I've had some ktorrent and acidrips sponsored
<mdz> jdong: by whom?
<jdong> imbrandon has sponsored a ktorrent upload for me
<ogra> jdong, ... "merge new versions from Debian" ... would you take part in that, even if your focus lies in backports ?
<jdong> nafallo sponsored my acidrip upload
<mdz> are imbrandon and nafallo present?
<jdong> ogra: that seems to fit into the backports paradigm
<jdong> ogra: I'd be willing to do more MOTU type of work, certainly
<ogra> right, but would ayou do it for plain universe ? :)
<ogra> right, thankls :)
<ogra> *thanks
<jdong> ogra: why not? what's in universe directly benefits backports :)
<ogra> correct 
<jdong> I guess that's something I didn't understand two years back :)
<jdong> so, ogra, you were right :)
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> jdong: ktorrent/acidrip were new packages or fixes?
<jdong> ajmitch: primarily fixes
<mdz> jdong: it's a good idea to have a number of uploads reviewed and uploaded by an existing developer, so that we have some background on your work
<jdong> ok, what'd be considered "a number"?
<mdz> two uploads isn't much, and neither of the sponsors have provided feedback about your work
<jdong> ok
<mdz> jdong: it would depend on the nature of the work, but if you want a guideline, I'd say probably >=10
<jdong> ok
<mdz> depending on whether the changes were trivial, who reviewed them, and how they felt about the sponsorship process
<mdz> I'm going to improve the documentation about what we expect from developer applicants
<jdong> I'll definitely try to get more involved then
<mdz> basically what we need is enough information to make a judgement
<jdong> sorry if the application was somewhat premature by the standards set
<mdz> I know what you've done with backports, but uploading packages is a little different and we need to have more to go on
<jdong> ok
<mdz> I'll add some tips and a basic process to UbuntuDevelopers, I hope that will help you to prepare and reapply
<jdong> thank you
<mdz> tepsipakki: are you ready?
<tepsipakki> I guess.. :)
<mdz> please go ahead
<tepsipakki> I'm Timo Aaltonen, working for Computing Centre of Helsinki University of Technology. My work includes administering 220+ dapper-workstations and some Tru64 servers and clusters
<tepsipakki> for more go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimoAaltonen
<mdz> that's quite a few workstations
* ajmitch sees the pam/ldap/krb5 stuff down the bottom & is happy
<mdz> have you seen http://www.ubuntu.com/mystory ?
<tepsipakki> I've been offline outside of work since June (until two weeks ago), so edgy was a bit off my queue
<tepsipakki> mdz: yes I have
<tepsipakki> but that kind of stuff has to go via my boss..
<mdz> tepsipakki: we certainly would appreciate if you would ask :-)
<tepsipakki> I'll do that ;)
<mdz> so can you tell us about the development work you have already done on Ubuntu?
<tepsipakki> mdz: well, I haven't been sponsored that much.. during dapper there was gtkpod-aac, libgssapi, librpcsecgss that I can remember
<mdz> who was your sponsor, and are they able to speak on your behalf?
<tepsipakki> then the debian maintainer (anibal) took over libgssapi&librpcsecgss in April I think
<tepsipakki> oh, I don't remember
<ajmitch> looks like jpatrick, who's not around
<tepsipakki> actually, libgssapi&librpcsecgss were sponsored by anibal directly into debian
<mdz> tepsipakki: is there any information you can provide us which would be useful in helping us judge whether you meet the guidelines for joining ubuntu-dev?
<tepsipakki> hmm
<tepsipakki> I'm not sure :/ Since there have been no sponsored packages for a while, it's hard to gather evidence
<tepsipakki> not that there ever were that many
<mdz> tepsipakki: would you be willing to work with MOTU to find a sponsor who would then advocate you?
<tepsipakki> sure
<mdz> if you've been away for a while, it would be a good idea to spend some time doing hands-on packaging work to get back into the groove
<mdz> ajmitch sounded keen :-)
<tepsipakki> there's libpam-krb5 which needs to be sorted out before edgy releases ;)
<ajmitch> so far I've just seen UVF exceptions, but I'm happy to work with you on that stuff
<mdz> if there's an edgy matter to discuss, please email me; this meeting is already running long
<ajmitch> even that should just be a sync
<mdz> thanks ajmitch
<mdz> I don't think mpgirijadevi@rediffmail.com is present
<mdz> so kristog is up next
<tepsipakki> ok, we can continue this when there is more to show :)
<kristog> ok :)
<mdz> tepsipakki: sounds good
<kristog> i'm Riccardo Setti, i'm a debian-developer
<kristog> my work on ubuntu until know was do some package work
<kristog> i packaged with dholbach most of the telepathy packages
<kristog> for more information  you can take a look https://launchpad.net/people/giskard
<kristog> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RiccardoSetti
<pitti> I often see your name on utopia and network-manager alioth commits, right?
<kristog> pitti, :)
<kristog> yes.
<kristog> pitti, yes i don NM and g-p-m for Debian
<mdz> dholbach: do you have some input regarding kristog?
<kristog> i'm tring to improve the ubuntu packages too
<ogra> kristog expressed interest to care for gnome-power-manager in ubuntu as well btw :)
<jdong> heh, that's well needed :D
<dholbach> I think I would repeat myself with what I said a the CC meeting: kristog ROCKS, he works hard on galago, telepathy and desktop packages. he's apt, he helps other team members, he talks to upstream, he's everywhere. it's a pleasure to work with him and he's very funny.
<ogra> yeah, and i'd love to get it off my back
<mdz> dholbach: a ringing endorsement indeed!
* kristog points ogra to the g-screensaver patch
<mdz> kristog: how long have you been a Debian developer?
<kristog> mdz, i paied him ;)
<imbrandon> sorry did mdz ping me ?
<dholbach> hahahah - a true Italian ;-)
<kristog> mdz, officially since may
<ogra> dholbach, *giggle*
<kristog> mdz, i started my procces long time ago
<mdz> kristog: who were your AM/sponsors in Debian?
<kristog> mdz, http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=riccardo+Setti&comaint=yes
<kristog> mdz, AM seees and HE
<kristog> my sponsor frankie md lool sjoerd
<kristog> joeyh
<kristog> ccontavalli
<kristog> vorlon one time
<mdz> kristog: how did you become interested in contributing to ubuntu as well as Debian?  do you plan to do similar types of work or different things?
<kristog> i shared interest with Ubuntu people
<kristog> so i started working with them..
<kristog> (galago) 
<kristog> and with telepathy i started do real work for it
<kristog> and..if i maintain NM for Debian why i cannot help the Ubuntu NM maintainer
<mdz> how did your experience differ in developing for Ubuntu vs. Debian?
<kristog> mdz, the proccess is different
<kristog> and the social skill of developer are sometimes different
<kristog> i like work with dholbach because we don't speak only of Ubuntu
<mdz> can you elaborate regarding the social differences you noticed?
<mdz> Keybuk,mjg59: still here?
<mjg59> Yup
<ogra> kristog, do you teach hinm italian ? i know he lacks there ;)
<seb128> kristog is doing a really good job on telepathy team and desktop packages too
<kristog> ogra, atm no :) if he will ask me i will happy to do :) i need some german lesson :)
<kristog> seb128, :)
<Keybuk> mdz: barely I'm afraid, I may have to flake out soon
<mdz> Keybuk: just one more after kristog
<mjg59> kristog: Have you got an answer to mdz's question?
<ogra> kristog, well, teaching dholbach another lang is easy, just send him the latest harry potter italian edition ;)
* dholbach hugs ogra - thanks for your faith in me :)
<ogra> :)
<kristog> ogra, AHAHAHAAH 
<kristog> mjg59, ?
<mjg59> 22:16 < mdz> can you elaborate regarding the social differences you noticed?
<kristog> didn't see it. sorry. 
<mjg59> np :)
<kristog> i feel it in a different way...
<kristog> i cannot explain it...it's something...
<kristog> mjg59,  mdz  you feel if something is different, i feel Debian more "techincal"
<mjg59> Ok, that's a distinction I think I can understand
<pitti> more 'human'? :p
<ogra> more ubuntu !
<mdz> kristog: based on what you said about dholbach, it sounds like you found it easier to relate to Ubuntu developers on a social level
<kristog> pitti, no, a lot of debian people are *human*
<pitti> kristog: (I know, just kidding)
<kristog> pitti, :)
<mdz> kristog: do you find it easier to relate to Debian developers on technical issues, relative to Ubuntu?
<pitti> kristog: I'm a DD myself, and on the person-to-person level Debian works great for me, too
<kristog> mdz, the approach is different
<kristog> it's a mind restriction i guess..but in fact is so..
<kristog> for example seb128 in #gnome-debian is different from the seb128 in #ubuntu-desktop
<kristog> (sorry seb128 ;) )
<mdz> really?  there are two faces of seb128?
<ogra> heh
<kristog> mdz, don't know, but i feel him so
<seb128> I'm less participating on #gnome-debian for sure
<ogra> the french and the german sebastiens ?
<kristog> seb128, this was not my point :)
<dholbach> ogra: http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/udsparis2006/800_PICT0136 <- germans
<seb128> the chan ambiance is not the same
<seb128> sure I don't hug people on #gnome-debian
<seb128> I'm not sure on how much they would like it :p
<mdz> mjg59,Keybuk: any questions?
<ogra> dholbach, *g*
<Keybuk> mdz: none from me
<kristog> seb128, RIGHT :)
<mjg59> No, I'm happy
<mdz> ok, votes
<Keybuk> +1
<mjg59> 1
<mdz> +1 from me based on Debian contributions and strong endorsements
<dholbach> CONGRATULATIONS kristog!
<mdz> kristog: congratulations and welcome
<pitti> kristog: welcome!
<seb128> kristog: congrat :)
* dholbach hugs kristog
<sivang> congrets kristog 
* seb128 hugs kristog
<kristog> Keybuk, mjg59  mdz thank you :)
<mdz> keescook: you're up next
<keescook> I'm Kees Cook, and I'm part of the Ubuntu Security Team.  I've been busy triaging CVE reports that impact Ubuntu.  Outside of the security updates I've been doing, I've also done bug triage/fixing in edgy, and have been making progress towards becoming an official Debian Developer.  (http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=kees@outflux.net).
<keescook> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KeesCook for details about my recent packaging work.  (I can paste a summary here too, if you want.)
<keescook> With MOTU standing, I would continue doing the same work as linked above, but I'd also be in a better position to help with merges and mentoring.  I'd like to someday become ubuntu-core-dev.  Thanks!
* kristog hugs dholbach, phanatic sivang 
<ogra> kristog, congrats !
<mdz> pitti: I assume you've been sponsoring his uploads; what has your experience been?
<phanatic> congrats kristog :)
* sivang hugs kristog 
<kristog> phanatic, ogra, thank you.
<keescook> I asked crimsun to join us, but I think he is busy.  (he sponsored one of my uploads too)
<pitti> keescook quickly became familiar with basic packaging and with all sorts of differnt irky patch systems
<pitti> I had to correct his very first updates, but the current ones have a consistent high quality and no major bugs
<mdz> pitti: would you say that you generally upload his packages unmodified now?
<pitti> he's a quick learner, doesn't hesitate to ask questions and is very curious about everything
<pitti> mdz: yes, I do
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<pitti> I check the debdiff, but there have been no necessary fixes
<mdz> great to hear
<pitti> and he's very good at analyzing flaws
<pitti> writing exploits on his own, etc
<pitti> he certainly does not yet know everything about packaging
<Keybuk> isn't he supposed to be fixing them? :)
<keescook> thanks to pitti's eye and mentoring, I got debian sponsorship for some packages very quickly.
<mdz> Keybuk,mjg59: I've talked with kees on more than one occasion already so we are fairly familiar already
<pitti> Keybuk: that too :)
<mdz> pitti: he needs to know the basics, and enough to know when he doesn't know ;-)
<Keybuk> my concern is that Kees hasn't done much packaging work of his own yet
<pitti> but he now knows enough for me to have him do uploads on his own 
<Keybuk> we rejected jdong earlier for only having two sponsored uploads
<Keybuk> and kees doesn't show many more to the archive, proper
<mdz> Keybuk: not only that; even for those uploads there was no feedback
<pitti> he did some non-security uploads to edgy, too
<Keybuk> I'm inclined to treat the security archive much like the backports archive, as a separate entity
<Keybuk> mdz: do we have feedback on kees uploads to edgy itself?
<mdz> I'd disagree, given that the backports system to date has been purely rebuilds and hands-off on packaging
<keescook> Keybuk: I can ask crimsun what he thought; he handled my debdiff for abuse-sdl.
<ogra> i see 8 tagged with his name
<keescook> (which were also taken by the debian maintainer)
<keescook> https://launchpad.net/people/keescook/+packages  :)
<mdz> Keybuk: yes, security uploads via pitti
<Keybuk> mdz: as I said, I'm inclined to treat security differently
<mdz> Keybuk: security uploads _to edgy_
<Keybuk> especially as group membership has no bearing over it
<pitti> Keybuk: it does
<pitti> Keybuk: upload privs to -security are no different from the privs to upload to edgy
<Keybuk> pitti: I thought security had its own keyring with just you in it?
<pitti> Keybuk: no, every MOTU can upload universe apcakges, and every core dev to main -security
<pitti> Keybuk: I'm just the only one who approves them in the queue
<pitti> (so far)
<pitti> ouch, it's too late to type -- 'apcakges' *cough*
<mdz> uber privileges are required to actually push the update to users
<mdz> but it is more or less like uploading to -updates
<mdz> where the upload needs to be approved by an archive admin
<pitti> so far Kees has been very cautious when it came to stuff he didn't yet know about
<pitti> and he has shown to be very picky about reading debdiffs, etc.
<keescook> I don't want my name on broken stuff.  :)
<Keybuk> you dpatch'd python2.3? :)
* Keybuk tries to understand the changelog; ignoring doko's wrong clock
<keescook> Keybuk: it lacks dpatch, and as a result, on a clean build, my original patch failed.
<keescook> i.e. at the time, I didn't have clean chroots (now I do)
<keescook> and they had dpatch, but the buildd's didn't, obviously.
<Keybuk> almost all of your sponsored uploads have been to main
<Keybuk> what kind of thing do you want to do in universe?
<keescook> specifically, I'd like to watch over inkscape, and fix games.
<pitti> (inkscape is main, for the record)
<keescook> er, whoops, yeah.
<keescook> there are things I use in universe as well: sendmail, clamav
<keescook> so I'd like to see those kept safe, up to date, etc.
<Keybuk> keescook: are you planning to join the MOTU Games Team?
<Keybuk> or either of the Ubuntu Games teams? :p
<pitti> we also have some universe tasks about cleaning up library duplication (which is sort of security related, too); would you be interested in helping with that?
<keescook> Keybuk: if there is need.  :)
<pitti> like, getting rid of openssl097, old libdb versions, libtasn1-2, etc.
<keescook> pitti: sure, is there a history of that process anywhere for me to read?
<pitti> keescook: let's talk about that after the meeting
<mdz> there's a specification even
* keescook makes a note
<pitti> yeah, DapperDuplicatedPackages or so
<mdz> reducing-duplication
<mdz> mjg59: any questions for keescook?
<mjg59> I think I'm pretty happy wiht him
<mdz> Keybuk: anything more?
<Keybuk> mdz: nothing more
<mdz> ok, votes
<mjg59> +1 based on the recommendations from others
<mdz> +1 based on substantial Ubuntu and Debian contributions, feedback from pitti and prior personal interviews
<Keybuk> -1, not enough uploads to universe at this time
<pitti> Keybuk: fair point
<mdz> 2/3 majority, welcome keescook
<pitti> keescook: welcome to the team!
<keescook> woo!
<dholbach> congratulations keescook!
<mdz> keescook: I expect you to make Keybuk's reservations inapplicable in short order
<ogra> welcome keescook !
* dholbach hugs keescook
<keescook> Keybuk: given the UVF, what areas should I focus on in the near-term for universe?
<mdz> keescook: otherwise it will come back to haunt your -core-dev application :-)
* keescook hugs everyone
<pitti> keescook: openssl transition would be most welcome
<Keybuk> keescook: that would be better off co-ordinated with the MOTU than me
<keescook> Keybuk: okay, noted.  I will bug dholbach.  ;)
<pitti> that is, if universe remains unfrozen for some time until release
<mdz> keescook: dholbach can guide you there
<mdz> ok, that's all of the pending candidates I saw
<dholbach> keescook: tomorrow? :-)
<keescook> dholbach: sure thing.  :)
<mdz> is there any other business?
<dholbach> rock and roll
<Keybuk> I had one item of "further business"
<mdz> Keybuk: by all means
<Keybuk> the original TB appointments (mine and yours) were for two years, and mjg59's I believe was for one year
<Keybuk> all of these expire at the end of this month
<Keybuk> do we have any word from the sabdfl what the plan is
<mdz> wow, the time has passed quickly
<Keybuk> hasn't it just
<Seveas> (this also holds for the CC)
<Keybuk> I suspect the answer is "ask Mark"
<Keybuk> interestingly, his technically should expire too ;)
<mdz> emailing technical-board would be a good start
<mdz> if nothing happens there, I have a call scheduled with him later this week and will raise the issue then
<mdz> (have made a note of it)
<mdz> Keybuk: the launchpad expiry dates say 2007, but what you said sounds more correct
<mdz> anything more?
<Keybuk> yeah, the LP stuff is a bit random as it's just when the groups were moved around, etc.
<mdz> workrave is demanding my first born
<pitti> mdz: what will be the official course for announcing EOL of hoary?
<Keybuk> mdz: heh, my other half has been turning lights off around me for the past half an hour
<pitti> ok, we can discuss this later, nevermind
* keescook <3 workrave
<mdz> pitti: it'll go to -security-announce and some user-oriented lists/forums
<mdz> Canonical comms is handling the announcement
<pitti> ah, -s-a is nice, we didn't do that for warty
<mdz> ok, not hearing any further business
<mdz> adjourned, thanks all
<pitti> thanks all
* keescook waves
<keescook> thanks!
<mdz> what a marathon
<ajmitch> that's probably a record length meeting
<sivang> thanks all
<sivang> ajmitch: we've had longer, I'm sure
<Seveas> it's nothing compared to CC
<pitti> yes, we had some 4 hours already
<Seveas> last 2 were 3h+
<ajmitch> Seveas: CC is different
<mdz> jdong: (I finished those edits to UbuntuDevelopers)
<Keybuk> night all
<jdong> mdz: thx
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-11
<lguerra> @schedule bogota
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Bogota: 11 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 07:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 15:00: Technical Board
<Burgundavia> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 11 2006, 04:50:05 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 15 hours 9 minutes
<nixternal> @later
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 12 Oct 06:00: Edubuntu | 13 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 22:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Oct 06:00: Technical Board
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 11 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 07:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 15:00: Technical Board
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 22:00: Technical Board
<jonathan1> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 11 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 12:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 20:00: Technical Board
<flint> Good Morning from Vermont, USA, how is life in Edubuntuland?
<flint> Damn, this morning-evening thing is beyond my capability... ah well!
<jonathan1> lol @ flint
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 11 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 22:00: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 Oct 15:00 UTC: LoCo | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Czubek> What was the command to check local time of meeting?
<lamont> Czubek: TZ=UTC date
<rejden> re
<highvoltage> re the toner in the copy machine
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 Oct 15:00 UTC: LoCo | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<nixternal> hola como esta usted?
<nixternal> heh, wrong channel ;)
<HedgeMage> nixternal: Hi, I'm good, and I don't speak spanish :P
<nixternal> me either, but everyone in neighborHOOD does
<HedgeMage> lol
<nixternal> imbrandon is confused
<HedgeMage> nixternal: I know just enough Latin to badly fake most Romance languages when called for.
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> i still mess that up
<nixternal> is there an agenda for this meeting btw?
<HedgeMage> I think "tech update from ogra and any last minute stuff people decide to yap about" is the agenda ;)
<nixternal> hehe good deal
<lguerra> @schedule bogota
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Bogota: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 12 Oct 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 07:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 10:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<lguerra> hi all
<highvoltage> moo
<sbalneav> Foo!
* willvdl gives highvoltage another drink
<highvoltage> why thank you, willvdl 
<willvdl> sounds like you needed it
<LaserJock> ogra: over here !
<nixternal> hola compadres
<pips1> ogra: come, come, ... put put!
<ogra> heh, sorry everybody
<nixternal> hehe
<pips1> :)
<ogra> well, not much from the tech side today, i fixed up syslogging, so the thin clients log to the servers logfiles, and extra for highvoltage ....
<ogra> i added the IP to ldm's bottom bar ;)
<cbx33> ogra: deja vu :p
<highvoltage> ogra: *g*
<ogra> (lazy copy/paste)
<cbx33> you lazy ... never :p
<highvoltage> pips1: ooh, glad you're here, after tech, etc we must talk to lguerra about spanish web stuff
* cbx33 has seen some problems with the current - 09 live cd
<cbx33> not tried edubuntu
<pips1> highvoltage: oki
<highvoltage> and RichEd sends apologies too, btw
<cbx33> but ubuntu...I havn't been around a lottoday to ask about it
<ogra> apart from that i was busy organizing the sponsorings for th ek12 guys, and make sure the CD size is fine ...
<ogra> i havent tested any yet
<willvdl> shall we begin?
<ogra> cbx33, what did you find ? 
<cbx33> well...gconfd fails
<highvoltage> ouch
<cbx33> on two machines I tried
<grahamldlw> what happens in here?
<cbx33> plus.....it seems.....very very slow
<ogra> cbx33, edubuntu install ?
<nixternal> grahamldlw: magic ;)
<cbx33> no...ubuntu live...that's what I just said
<ogra> the install CD `
<ogra> ?
<cbx33> I havn't tried edubuntu yet
<cbx33> but I'm wondering if it'll have the same problems
<ogra> szre it will, we use the same packages
<ogra> *sure
<cbx33> well...I'll grab one tomorrow...but I wouldhave said it WAS not ready for release....unless fixes have been made since then
<pips1> cbx33: what version? beta / daily ?
<ogra> but i'm not really worried about the liveCd
<cbx33> it was the current as of 10am this mornin
<ogra> they are a nice goodie ... 
<cbx33> 09
<cbx33> ogra: ok dude
<ogra> RC freeze starts tomorrow ...
<nixternal> when is RC?
<ogra> it would be nice to get as much testing as possible before RC
<nixternal> i thought it was tomorrow
<ogra> nope, the freeze is tomorrow
<ogra> then we'll prepare the isos ...
<nixternal> whew...ok..that gives me some time to get release notes done
<ogra> so during this time any testinstall is important ... 
<cbx33> ogra: ok...I'll attempt to get an instlal done tonight on a VM
<cbx33> I know you don;t like VM's much...but atm it's all I have
<ogra> thats fine
<nixternal> well, i have available machines here to install to and test
<cbx33> nixternal: nice ;)
<ogra> that would be very verys helpful
<sbalneav> ogra: Want me to do another test install tonight off the daily builds?
<nixternal> you need the latest live cd tested? or wait until freeze?
<cbx33> I have one 86 machine I can test
<ogra> pips1, saved our ass with a very early bugreport for beta ... else we wouldntz have had ppc and amd64 b
<cbx33> well done pips1 \0/
<ogra> sbalneav, well, it gets more intresting after/during the freeze than before
<highvoltage> :)
<nixternal> i just installed this week again...and i haven't run across one issue yet..granted i have been addicted to playing Tetravex..and I am happy to say I haven't seen a bug in it yet ;)
<ogra> ok, so we are confident Tetravex is bugfree ... :)
<cbx33> ah 11.1 is the latest...so it could be that gconfd issue is fixed
<HedgeMage> lol ogra 
<nixternal> haha yes
<nixternal> and Samegnome
<ogra> hmm ? 11.1 ?
<HedgeMage> I'll make a point of installing TT's box tonight if I have time.
<cbx33> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily-live/
<cbx33> yup
<ogra> intresting
<cbx33> I'm gonna have to nip off in a while....at inlaws....lisa and I went out for meal...not home yet ;)
<cbx33> yes I was surprised not to find an 11
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-October/001805.html
<ogra> ^^^ for willing testers
<willvdl> cbx33 romantic devil, irc over dinner?
<rodarvus> haha
<cbx33> willvdl: hehe
<pips1> so ogra, you are saying that we should start testing the current daily? or better wait and test the next daily (i.e. tomorrow)?
<nixternal> awesome ogra, i will test it and follow that here within the next day or 2 and report back
* nixternal adds it to the every expanding to do list
<ogra> i will spend most of the day with testing (and fixing the progressbar uglyness in the usplash theme)
* cbx33 pledges a test - i386
<HedgeMage> nixternal: heh I know the feeling
<ogra> (tomorrow)
<cbx33> ogra: yeh what happened with that
<cbx33> I don;t like the pulse bar at the start of the live cd...
<ogra> so it will get more urgent after the freeze started
<HedgeMage> ogra: We could do serious usability testing -- I could let TT try to install it himself :P
<cbx33> shows no indication of progress at all
* HedgeMage ducks
<pips1> ok, I'll test a amd64 install tomorrow, then
<ogra> HedgeMage, does he know how to type his name ? 
<cbx33> pips1: you got ppc too?
* cbx33 has i386
<ogra> that and hitting enter a couple of times should do it ;)
<pips1> yes, but I can only test live on that... :)
<HedgeMage> ogra: no, hi just does "LLLLLLLLLL" (his first initial
<cbx33> pips1: same here with amd64
<HedgeMage> ogra: We'll have to work on the whole name :P
<ogra> heh
<ogra> ok, so much about testing
<ogra> ....
<cbx33> ogra: hehe
* lguerra it has various 486 and 586 if they serve them
<cbx33> so /me for i386 live and install
<cbx33> pips1: for ppc live and amd64 install
<Ropechoborra> Hi ubuntuers =P
<cbx33> nixternal: what can you pledge?
<pips1> and /me for amd64 install and ppc live
<ogra> for mountainview i invited a real ldap hero ... matt oquist will join us there
<nixternal> what do you need me to pledge?
<highvoltage> oooh
<cbx33> testing...
<nixternal> as long as it isn't money ;)
<cbx33> what hardware do you have available?
* HedgeMage is so jealous that she can't go
<ogra> so i expect that we'll get the network authentication stuff done this time
<nixternal> i am all i386 here
<HedgeMage> You guys have extra fun for me ;)
* cbx33 is so annoyed he can't go, even thought he got sponsored
<highvoltage> ogra: please use your persuasive powers and get him involved in edubuntu :)
<pips1> re network auth hurrraayyyy!!!!
<cbx33> nixternal: ok....
<ogra> highvoltage, working on it ;)
<cbx33> ogra: are we still required to test all diferent types of install?
<sbalneav> HedgeMage: When's the cutoff on handbook work?
<highvoltage> :)
<nixternal> standalone i can take care of, and i will attempt and ltsp setup
<cbx33> ie free space / resize etc?
<nixternal> i need to get my other server up and running
<ogra> cbx33, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/Current will be the valid testplan for the RC 
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: The very last minutte :P  We're hoping to get it up on lulu on the 25th, translations, if any, can follow after.  We're way behind mostly due to my personal emergencies :/
<nixternal> there is a guy in my LUG that has a huge LTSP setup for his office right now
<ogra> test what you like from the list ;)
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: Right now we're just plugging away to get the most we can done as quickly as possible.
<nixternal> he is idle 100% of the time here lately, and doesn't respond well to emails
<ogra> guys
<ogra> are we done with tech ? 
<willvdl> quickie
<highvoltage> ogra: it seems so
<willvdl> one sec
<ogra> so we can follow sbalneav and HedgeMage to the docs topic ? ;)
<willvdl> language packs
<HedgeMage> :)
<cbx33> ogra: one more
<willvdl> who is responsable upstream?
<ogra> willvdl, what about them ? 
<cbx33> are you going to change what cdimage we are testing?
<cbx33> on the wiki
<sbalneav> I have a mailing list problem to put on the table at the appropriate time :)
<ogra> willvdl, define upstream here
<ogra> for the language packs we are upstream 
* pygi peeks in about docs topic
<willvdl> sorry, need to discuss language support with someone
<ogra> willvdl, whats your concern with them ? 
<highvoltage> willvdl: I'm working hard on local language support, so depending on for which area you need, I could share what I have
<willvdl> no concern, got a possible opportunity for some folks to do some local language support
<willvdl> and just need o figure out the best way for them given lack of bandwidth
<highvoltage> willvdl: I'm re-building OOo for all the translate.org.za stuff, it's a bit schleppy, but worth while
<ogra> some lang we dont have yewt ?
<willvdl> then you are the guy I must speak to :)
<willvdl> will call you tomorrow with details?
<ogra> willvdl, contact carlos, he's responsible for the langpacks in ubuntu
<cbx33> HedgeMage: did you see SCP docs?
<willvdl> cool, thanks
<highvoltage> willvdl: tomorrow is one of those 'meetings-all-day' days, but give me a call anyway :)
<ogra> so seems cbx33 got us to the tech docs topic ;)
<willvdl> email then
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I've only had time to skim, but they look good from the glance I got :)
<cbx33> HedgeMage: I created an images folder...is that ok?
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I have no clue, nixternal is fixing our organization and some docbook problems for us... it'll end up where it belongs :)
<cbx33> nixternal: is that ok :p
<cbx33> hehe
<nixternal> images is still there...i didn't have to mess with it
<nixternal> it is good
<nixternal> it may get moved around so it is setup for integration into the ubuntu doc repos eventually
<nixternal> i recenly committed a huge chunk, so svn up
<ogra> do we have a new firefox page already ? 
<cbx33> nixternal: are we goign with jpeg or png?
<nixternal> doesn't look like it ogra
<highvoltage> hmm... jsgotango did it previously
<cbx33> at the mo they are jpeg
<cbx33> we need one of those soon
<highvoltage> ogra: I don't believe so
<nixternal> i would say png cbx33, but that is up to you all
<cbx33> nixternal: I think it's better if we are uniform
<ogra> cbx33, png's shrunk with pngcrush would be fine to keep the size small
<cbx33> so all images are png
<highvoltage> ogra: an updated one to the current one would suffice? or is there a whole whack of new stuff that's needed in there
<nixternal> if you use png, just make sure you kill transparency just in case someone with MS decides to read the book ;)
<HedgeMage> OK, sounds like PNG it is
* HedgeMage goes with the flow
<nixternal> cbx33: png it is then ;)
<ogra> highvoltage, worst case i'll change the release number on release day .... 
<nixternal> thanks for pointing out the uniform thing ;)
<ogra> and keep whats there
<HedgeMage> :)
<cbx33> pips1: are you taking care of the current edubuntu site now?
<cbx33> nixternal: np
<cbx33> I noticed that our site looks quite bad inIE
<cbx33> because of transparent pngs
<willvdl> urk
<highvoltage> eek
<pips1> cbx33: well, i'm admin, but I don't do anything content-wise
<nixternal> i usually follow the KDE style guide for my images...i haven't used pngcrush yet, but i will look into it
<pips1> currently, that is
<highvoltage> cbx33: can you send me a screenshot?
<ogra> cbx33, i thought there were hacks in place to avoid that
<ogra> highvoltage, transparency is usually shown gray in IE
<nixternal> IE doesn't support png transparency, and I haven't even gotten the hacks to work with it
<pips1> cbx33: yeah, the transparent pngs don't work with MSIE (6)
<ogra> but there are some simple workarounds for that
<cbx33> well...I just think a lot of the people viewing our site are likely to be MS
<lguerra> really the transparencies do not function, shown blue and white
<cbx33> lisa pointed it out
<cbx33> can we sort something out there?
<highvoltage> cbx33: you're right, it should work for them
<cbx33> it looks bad....
<nixternal> ogra: what i do is convert my transparents to gif format (eww), and then in css i do _whatever {blah blah}  <- as using the _ directs it to IE6 and lower
<highvoltage> I don't have access to IE, but we can get it sorted
<cbx33> it is a nice slick design....ty highvoltage 
<cbx33> but the rendering from IE lets it down
<LaserJock> ok, hang on. Is the Edubuntu firefox page taken care of?
<highvoltage> cbx33: I think it's time we update the theme anyway, make it a bit more slicker and sharper, and update it to edgy theming
<ogra> nixternal, there are easier ways via a built in css function of IE ...
<ogra> you just  need to call that from the sites css
<highvoltage> there's always space for improvement :)
<willvdl> content & structure, then look and feel?
<nixternal> i have tried the transparency hacks w/o luck...i will look further into those
<cbx33> highvoltage: well....thisis something Riched was talkign about
<ogra> did we skip artwork and moved on to "Community & Documentation & Web" ?
<ogra> seems like :)
<nixternal> hehe, thats what it looks like
<LaserJock> oh one tiny artwork thing
<cbx33> shoot Laser
<highvoltage> ogra: sorry, we're a bit all over the place tonight :)
<ogra> did we have anything about artwork atm =?=
<cbx33> um..I have a few things
<cbx33> but only little
<nixternal> 2 tiny artwork things, is Edubuntu going to have a glossy logo like the other 3 projects?
<cbx33> AliasVegas ishere with me
<ogra> highvoltage, well, we're two third through the agenda ;)
<cbx33> we're sharing this computer
<LaserJock> has anybody noticed that on the gnome splash screen, the icons override the cool text
<ogra> ok, but LaserJock was first 
<LaserJock> but there blank space on the right
<ogra> right, i noticed that ...
<cbx33> ok....want a rejig?
<nixternal> am i missing something?
<nixternal> oh ya
<nixternal> mine loads so fast you can hardly notice it though
<LaserJock> so either the icons need to move or the text
<cbx33> icons can't move i don't believe
<cbx33> not easily
<LaserJock> that's what I figured
<cbx33> and to keep consistency shouldn't imho
<ogra> then a slight transparent bar should do
<cbx33> aliasvegas has justsaid she's fine to adjust
<ogra> ok :)
<willvdl> urk, just noticed the blue in ie. must be tired
<cbx33> can someone get me a screenshot of it loading?
<willvdl> meaning?
<cbx33> so we can get right on that when we get in?
<cbx33> HedgeMage: do you have blurb yet...lisa just asked?
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I'm sorry, I still need to type it up... did a last-minute rewrite... please tell her I apologize profusely and will try to hurry with it.
<cbx33> no no it's ok
<cbx33> just want to be able to get the artwork to you
<HedgeMage> cool
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/splash_loading.png
<HedgeMage> :)
<ogra> cbx33, ^^^
<cbx33> thank ogra 
<ogra> it loads two more
<cbx33> does it?
<cbx33> I never seen them
<ogra> i think so
<ogra> they are enabled by default in edubuntu ... you should
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> more artwork ?
<cbx33> I have nothing
<cbx33> well apart from
<cbx33> soon we are hoping tostart recruiting for edgy + 1
<ogra> nixternal, nobody made any glossy logos for edubuntu, so i guess no ...
<nixternal> awww
<nixternal> to bad i stink at inkscape ;)
<ogra> its very likely it will look like whats you currently get
<cbx33> if you know of anyone who could be interested in artowrk for edubuntu please get them to mail lisa directly;)
<cbx33> nixternal: we had problems with artowrk this release....but that's all behind us now
<cbx33> we're looking forward to next release
<nixternal> ahhh
<nixternal> ok..
<cbx33> nixternal: there is no point going intodetails
<nixternal> don't need to ;)
<cbx33> suffice to say it will not happen again...and was out of our control
* nixternal totally understands
<ogra> cbx33, the ubuntu-art mailinglist should still be the central point though ...
<cbx33> ogra: ok
<cbx33> I just worry at the moment of people having to join up to the mailing list just to register interest
<ogra> i'm not opposing that people mial lisa ;) but discussions should take place there 
<cbx33> they could talk to lisa first.....register intereste and she could direct them to the ML
<sbalneav> Speaking of mailing lists....
<cbx33> of course
<ogra> sbalneav, shoot
<cbx33> ogra: does that make sense?
<ogra> cbx33, how she handles it is up to her :)
<sbalneav> I've signed up to edubuntu-devel mailing list, but everytime I post, nothing ever gets through.
<ogra> uuuhh, really ? 
<sbalneav> yeah :(
<sbalneav> Don't you love me anymore, ogra? :)
<sbalneav> *sniff*
<ogra> RichEd poked around the last days in the interface, but i dont think he just changes stuff
<Burgwork> sbalneav: ogra hates Canadians ;)
* nixternal has a doc update concerning Ubuntu Documentation Repo when the floor opens - No Rush! Finish what you are doing now ;)
<nixternal> haha Burgwork, so do you ;)
* HedgeMage has to give TT some attention... highlight me if I'm needed, please.
<nixternal> im moving to Alberta!  it is way to beautiful for me to miss out
<ogra> sbalneav, i dont see you in the subscribers list
<cbx33> ok Hawkwind 
<Burgwork> nixternal: you are mad
<cbx33> whoops
<cbx33> HedgeMage: 
<nixternal> lol
<sbalneav> ?!
<ogra> sbalneav, ah, hidden behind your name ... found you ...
<sbalneav> I get the mails?  How could I get the mails if I wasn't subscribed? :)
<sbalneav> ogra: Geez, I'm a big guy, hard to miss :)
<ogra> hmm, looks all fine 
<nixternal> sbalneav: is your sending address the same as what you signed up with? i had a similar issue when i took on the @ubuntu.com with ALL 100 mailing lists ;)
<sbalneav> Wierd.
<ogra> do you also send as sbalneav@ltsp.org ?
<ogra> it will only accept the subscribed address
<sbalneav> ogra: Ah!  No, I send as @legalaid.mb.ca
<ogra> aha !
<cbx33> heheh
<nixternal> hehe, there you go ;)
<cbx33> problem solved ;)
<sbalneav> @ltsp.org is just an alias to @legalaid
<sbalneav> ok, so I'll unsubscribe and re-subscribe as @legalaid.
<ogra> just change your data 
<ogra> no need to unsub
<sbalneav> That'll work?  OK, I can do that.
<sbalneav> \o/ for ogra
<sbalneav> +1e8
<ogra> ok, apart from management we have covered all topics i think
<ogra> heh
<cbx33> ok...i gotta dash can I show people this: https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-school-support/
<cbx33> it was a group I started....notice we have a lot of members here...tiem to tap them me thinkgs ;)
<ogra> well, there are some people
<ogra> anyway, management ...
<cbx33> yes but it's a start right ;)
* HedgeMage peeks in
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: whatcha need?
<cbx33> ok guys I'm gonna have to pop out...no body have any issues for me do they?
<HedgeMage> oops, cbx33 whatcha need?
<ogra> we'll have a bunch of k12 gusy sponsored for mountainview ...
<ogra> *guys
<ogra> additionally the ltsp core team will be there
* ogra waves to sbalneav 
<cbx33> HedgeMage: sorry..was acking you
<cbx33> right I'm off for a while
<LaserJock> do we have plans of what to do with all these cool guys?
<cbx33> see ya soon guys
<HedgeMage> cbx33: ahh okay ttyl
<ogra> apart from LaserJock no edubuntu specific people will come :/
<LaserJock> :(
<cbx33> :(
* pygi is highly sorry once again :(
* highvoltage too
* cbx33 too....work sux
<nixternal> i will be in school, if I can get at least 2 days off I will be there, but it just happens to fall during midterms
* sbalneav waves back
<ogra> nixternal, would be cool to meet you :)
<LaserJock> I won't even be there the full time
<ogra> LaserJock, :(
<nixternal> no it wouldn't ;)
<nixternal> haha
<sbalneav> I think I'm pretty much 1/2 ltsp and 1/2 Edubuntu now :)
<LaserJock> I have a department presentation on that Tuesday
* ogra hugs sbalneav 
<LaserJock> so I will be there Tuesday night
<highvoltage> sbalneav: :-D
<sbalneav> Say, when do I need to show up for my membership vote, BTW?
<rodarvus> sbalneav, for ubuntu-devel?
<ogra> the next EC meeting is on nov 1st ... 
<rodarvus> about 24 hours ago :)
<sbalneav> I beleive so, yes
<highvoltage> rodarvus: for edubuntu membership
<sbalneav> ?! 
<ogra> rodarvus, no, for membership
<rodarvus> oh, right.
<sbalneav> OK, wrong then
<ogra> nov 1st is a very bad date for a meeting
<ogra> at least for sbalneav and me
<ogra> we'll both be travelling
<sbalneav> Meh, I'll get it eventually.
<sbalneav> Not like I'm going anywhere :)
<highvoltage> ogra: perhaps it would be best to move that a day later?
<rodarvus> ogra, why not advance the EC meeting to next week, then?
<ogra> we should probably consider making it a week earlier
<highvoltage> ogra: what do you suggest?
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> urgh
<ogra> hmm
<LaserJock> can't we do it now?
<LaserJock> ;-)
<rodarvus> *now*
<ogra> that would be nov 25th
<rodarvus> heh
<sbalneav> changed my address.
<ogra> one day before release ... i wont have slept 48h then 
<rodarvus> LaserJock, next EC meeting is vote for new EC member (RichEd), isn't it?
<ogra> rodarvus, right
<rodarvus> or is it done business?
<LaserJock> wasn't RichEd already approved
<rodarvus> (I thought it needed 100% EC to be present)
<highvoltage> yes, he was
<ogra> well, we're 3 Ec members here, we have quorum
<rodarvus> LaserJock wasn't here last EC meeting
<ogra> right, RichEd wasnt approved as EC member
<ogra> but as edubuntu member
<LaserJock> right
<rodarvus> jsgotangco is probably still without internet access
<rodarvus> unfortunately
<highvoltage> JaneW, myself and ogra voted in RichEd, as far as I remembered
<sbalneav> Should I say a speech?
<ogra> rodarvus, he's fine again since two days
<highvoltage> oh yes, as edubuntu member, that's what I meant. sorry :)
<rodarvus> oh, I lost that
<ajmitch> rodarvus: jsgotangco is probably sleeping :)
<rodarvus> ajmitch, sleeping is overrated
<ogra> so what about next week ? 
<highvoltage> +1
<ogra> for the RichEd vote i'd like to have all EC members there
<ogra> which is evil to LaserJock 
<LaserJock> I'll manage
<LaserJock> if it's important I'll get up :-)
<rodarvus> maybe arrange a sensitive time for all EC members? (if there is such a thing :D )
<ogra> so:
<highvoltage> rodarvus: now /that/ is evil :)
<ogra> ANYBODY APPLYING FOR MEMBERSHIP SHOW UP AT 12:00 UTC next wednesday .... HERE !
<rodarvus> I mean, a time where everyone can be there without waking up at 3am
<sbalneav> 12:00 utc here, gotcha
<LaserJock> rodarvus: only 5 am for me :-)
<rodarvus> bah, 5am is ok
<ogra> rodarvus, we once had australians and people from the south american east coast ....
<ogra> the plan was to have the meeitng times rotating like we do now to have covered both of that
<rodarvus> *nod*
<ogra> but the australians here get rare
<ogra> as well as the east coast south americans ...
<ogra> we could probably move the hours nearer together ... 
<ogra> i.e. two hours later fro the early meeting would only be 7:00 am for LaserJock  ;)
<LaserJock> wahoo
<ogra> and i dont think it does any harm to move the other one two hours earlier then ...
<ogra> but well, we should discuss that next week if the whole EC is there
<ogra> any other business ?
<sbalneav> Still at 12:00 utc, right?
* ogra feels a bit monological 
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> Better have have monological than mononeucleosis.
<nixternal> oh no
<nixternal> i had the kissing disease in 8th grade
<ogra> heh
<ogra> well, going once 
<ogra> going twice ....
<ogra> adjourned ...
<sbalneav> I'll have another beer, barkeep.
<sbalneav> Oh, beat me to it
<ogra> thanks everybody !
<pips1> oops, I missed the end of the meeting :)
<pips1> anyone still here?
<pips1> highvoltage? you wanted to talk?
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-12
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Oct 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 Oct 15:00 UTC: LoCo | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<fabbione> @schedule Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 17:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 22:00: Technical Board
<GNAM> @schedule orme
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 17:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 22:00: Technical Board
<the> yp
<the> yo*
<the> anyone here?
<jsgotangco> yes but this is a meeting channel and only active when there are meetings held
<the> ah
<the> there is a meeting in three hours time
<jsgotangco> see topic for schedules
<the> i saw
<jsgotangco> yes so come back in 3 hours then ;) we dont want to fill up the logs with idle chatter ;)
<Hobbsee> @schedule australia
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 13 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 22:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 01:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Oct 06:00: Technical Board
<mvo> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 17:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 22:00: Technical Board
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 12 Oct 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 08:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 11:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 16:00: Technical Board
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 12 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 17:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 22:00: Technical Board
<sfllaw> @schedule now
<sfllaw> @schedule time
<zul> 15 minutes until the next meeting
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 Oct 15:00 UTC: LoCo | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
* pitti waves hello
* sfllaw waves back.
<pitti> mdz?
* mvo arrives
<iwj> Hi everyone.  Having fun ? :-)
<infinity> Loads.
<fabbione> yo
<zul> ia m
<tfheen> anybody feel like waking mdz?
<sfllaw> Can we con Kamion into running the show again?
<BenC> I can call him
<tfheen> sfllaw: sure, but mdz probably wants to be around.
<infinity> I could chair the meeting, but it's be about 5 minutes long if I did.
<dholbach> Kamion is the best mdz replacement we have, but I guess mdz would like to be here.
<infinity> s/it's/it'd/
<dholbach> infinity: how would it look like?
<tfheen> BenC: please do so
<Kamion> I'm here, but for the RC freeze meeting I'd rather mdz did it
<Kamion> plus I'm really tired
<infinity> Join the club. :P
<infinity> It's 1am, and I've been working since 7am.
<infinity> Don't ask why, I'm not entirely sure myself.
<BenC> calling a second time, he didn't answer the first
<BenC> he's getting on
<mdz> morning
<sfllaw> mdz: Morning.
<pitti> hi mdz
<fschoep> hi
<Keybuk> mdz: morning
<tkamppeter> hi mdz
<mvo> hi mdz
<keescook> hiya
<Riddell> hi
<seb128> hi mdz
<mdz> do we have ogra,Keybuk,doko?
<Keybuk> we do
<Keybuk> at least me
<ogra> sure
<mdz> fschoep,kwwii: ping
<fschoep> mdz: hi
<kwwii> mdz: hi
<heno> doko is on as doko_ today: ping
<sivang> hi
<doko_> pong
<mdz> seb128: you said you have a commitment immediately after the meeting, so would you start?
<seb128> Done:
<seb128> - bugs fixing
<seb128> To do:
<seb128> - CD testing
<seb128> - bugs fixing
<seb128> Bugs milestoned for edgy:
<seb128> - #62593: evolution-alarm-notify doesn't start if evolution is not started, annoying but not a blocker. I'll look to it next
<seb128> - #3642: hibernate not working from gdm login screen, it never worked but might be easy to fix and would be nice to make working, low priority though
<mdz> seb128: excellent, all your other bugs are resolved?
<seb128> yep
<seb128> busy week but I'm pretty happy with the bugs fixed
<mdz> indeed
<mdz> only 34 on the milestone list in total now
<seb128> I'll have a look at that panel freeze on upgrade happening for some people
<seb128> to make sure it doesn't happen on dapper to edgy update
<mdz> seb128: is there no bug open about that yet?
<Riddell> what's the URL for the milestone list?
<seb128> there is one, it's Needs Info though
<dholbach> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.10
<ogra> hrm... sorting by status doesnbt work at all
<mdz> ogra: sorting is pretty broken in general on that page; I've filed a bug already
<Keybuk> mdz: you can sort the milestone list?! :p
<mdz> seb128: send the bug# on -devel if you have it
<Kamion> it may be easier to use the main Ubuntu bug list and use advanced search to get the milestone
<ogra> heh, clicking on status seems to sort on prio :)
* seb128 uses http://tinyurl.com/ygw4gr
<BenC> I filed a bug on i too
<mdz> Kamion: it is, but it doesn't have assignee on it which is less than ideal
<Kamion> Keybuk: yes, but it sorts by two columns to the left due to a javascript bug
<mdz> seb128: thanks
<mdz> dholbach: next
<Kamion> mdz: yeah
<dholbach> Done
<dholbach>     * bluetooth fixing/updates, uvf, bugs, artwork (reverted to dapper-artwork), hug day, reviewing
<dholbach> To do
<dholbach>     * triage, cd testing
<dholbach>     * more bugs, especially: 
<dholbach>     * bug 56651 ("Impossible to do pairing in Kubuntu") - needs more investigation and testing - talking to kmobiletools upstream
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56651 in bluez-utils "Impossible to do pairing in Kubuntu" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56651
<dholbach>     * bug 57588 ("GDM themes do not have pam-message item") - need to talk to fschoep
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57588 in edgy-gdm-themes "GDM themes do not have pam-message item" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57588
<Keybuk> Kamion: so how do you sort by status?
<seb128> dholbach: if you say "bug #nnn", no need to mention the title, Ubugtu does it for you :p
<ogra> Keybuk, invent two new columns ?
<dholbach> seb128: thanks for the explanation ;-)
<seb128> Keybuk: http://tinyurl.com/ygw4gr
<dholbach> seb128: that's for the wiki then :-P
<mdz> dholbach: the artwork update (or anti-update) to dapper is done?
<dholbach> mdz: yes :-(
<mdz> ok, haven't read mail yet this morning
<Kamion> Keybuk: you don't
<dholbach> discussion has started on sounder and ubuntu-art
<mdz> dholbach: have you heard from sabdfl?
<dholbach> mdz: no, neither has fschoep, aiui
<fschoep> mdz: dholbach: I've spoken to Mark on Monday and Tuesday
<seb128> Keybuk: http://tinyurl.com/ybb45x rather
<fschoep> mdz: dholbach: had contact until late Wednesday then he disappeared
<pitti> seb128: heh, I guess everyone has a similar bookmark by now :)
<fschoep> mdz: dholbach: no options for me than to revert to Dapper
<seb128> pitti: ;)
<mdz> fschoep: yes, just need to confirm that what is in edgy is something he can live with
<fschoep> mdz: probably not if I read between the lines
<mdz> that can't wait until next week
<fschoep> mdz: but Dapper's artwork is in now and that's best for now
<mdz> I'll call him later today
<fschoep> OK
<mdz> dholbach: thanks
<mdz> fschoep: next
<fschoep> Done:
<fschoep>  * community-artwork: intensive collaboration with sabdfl and other artists, dozens of designs, reverted to Dapper artwork
<fschoep>  * firefox-themes-ubuntu: fix bugs, Ian uploaded new package 0.5.4
<fschoep>  * art-mailing-list: fix remaining ML moderation issues
<fschoep>  * fixing and updating random artwork bugs
<fschoep>  * usplash-artwork: work with Seveas and msikma to create a new design
<fschoep>  * sound-themes: shortened login and logout sounds
<fschoep>  * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: iterate with Dave on polishing icons, integrating some community crafted icons
<fschoep> Ongoing:
<fschoep>  * ubuntu-art-polish-human-icons: iterating with Dave until time in the contract runs out, fix problems with new icons not showing up - results will be for Edgy +1
<fschoep> Todo:
<fschoep>  * postmortem artwork analysis and discussion
<fschoep>  * fix random artwork bugs if possible
<mdz> the ubuntu-6.10 bugs regarding artwork were closed by the dapper artwork upload?
<fschoep> that last point is mostly about bug 57588
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57588 in edgy-gdm-themes "GDM themes do not have pam-message item" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57588
<fschoep> mdz: only buh 57588 left
<fschoep> bug
<fschoep> because of the revert it got lost in the shuffle
<fschoep> it is an easy fix, patch is available
<dholbach> fschoep: it has a patch attached - if you're happy with it, i'd upload it
<fschoep> dholbach: need to check it one more time, then it's OK
<dholbach> ok
<fschoep> mdz: so that would fix all artwork bugs I can do something about
<mdz> hmm, seb128's url is different from mine
* pitti used Ubuntu bugs -> advanced -> milestone only
<mdz> fschoep: 57588 sounds like we ought to fix it, and it should be pretty safe
<mdz> fschoep: ok, thanks
<fschoep> mdz: indeed
<mdz> kwwii: next
<tfheen> pitti: you might want to limit to main+restricted too.
<kwwii> This week:
<kwwii> make side stripe for main menu
<kwwii> made two versions of a kubuntu menu icon - for future use perhaps
<kwwii> worked on 3 ideas for the kubuntu wiki header
<kwwii> Next:
<kwwii> put that last stuff in bzr today, bug fix anything that comes, add any small changes needed for whatever reasons
<kwwii> finish the wiki header images
<mdz> my advanced search didn't turn up 57588 for some reason
<fschoep> mdz: I've got pretty advanced bug hiding techniques ;)
<Kamion> because it's in progress maybe?
<mdz> Kamion: I have other in progress bugs
<mdz> his list has 41, mine 34
<mdz> will fiddle with it after the meeting
<Keybuk> kwwii: "small changes" in artwork, before the release?  are you mad?
<kwwii> one more things for me: make release announcement pic
<mdz> kwwii: so what's in edgy now is final, or something is very wrong?
<kwwii> Keybuk: well, if something is a major bug, then yes, we should change it
<tfheen> mdz: 41 bugs is with universe included.
<Keybuk> (there's got to be at least three redesigns in the next week, if we follow the last plan <g>)
<kwwii> mdz: nopt, everything in edgy is final
<kwwii> Keybuk: actually I have been working on the same design since Wiesbaden :-)
<mdz> kwwii: ok, phew
<mdz> kwwii: thanks
<kwwii> :-)
<mdz> heno: next
<heno>  * a11y: Everything on my list has been fixed except the GOK/wacom configuration/crasher bug (#42308). I would need help from some X people with that. Annoying but gok is no longer default OSK, and there is a simple work-around.
<heno>  * example-content: uploaded some simple spelling changes and tweaks yesterday
<heno>  * winfoss: complete apart from new screenshots to reflect the new (old) artwork. Doing that now.
<heno>  * access.ubuntu.com: will need updating now to reflect our new features
<heno>  * other: stated work on Edgy+1 specs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs
<mdz> bug 42308
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42308 in gok "On-screen keyboard (gok v1.0.7-0ubuntu3) fails" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42308
<tfheen> heno: 42308 isn't 6.10-targeted.
<heno> tfheen: ok, nevermind then
<heno> and rightly so
<mdz> hmm, old bug
<tfheen> heno: if it's critical for the release, we should target it, if not, it shouldn't be fixed before edgy+1 opens
<mdz> heno: the a11y stuff for the live CD is sorted now?
<heno> tfheen: it's not critical IMO
<heno> mdz: yes, fixes are applied, though I've not had a chance to test everything
<mdz> heno: ok, please verify as soon as you can with a daily
<heno> mdz: ok
<mdz> winfoss is final?
<Kamion> heno: please do (have someone) test the orca/ubiquity thing I uploaded today - I tested as best I could but my test rig isn't set up for it
<heno> mdz: except that the artwork has just changed so I need to change some Ubuntu screenshots
<heno> Kamion: yes
<Riddell> heno: is the kubuntu winfoss final?
<mdz> fschoep: speaking of which, are you in communication with the doc team about screenshots?
<heno> tortoise_: could you look at that? ^
<fschoep> mdz: no I am not
<Kamion> tortoise_: tomorrow's daily build should have it
<mdz> fschoep: please start a dialog about that, given how unpredictable it continues to be
<fschoep> mdz: right, how would I go about the discussion / problem?
<heno> (I ask because he wrote the ubiquity script for orca)
<tortoise_> heno, kamion: yeah, sure
<mdz> fschoep: explain that the artwork has changed to dapper's and so screenshots with the old artwork will need to be updated
<fschoep> mdz: OK, that's clear but those already have the "artwork preview" notice on it, but I'll try and get in touch anyway
<fschoep> mdz: consider it done
<mdz> heno: thanks
<mdz> doko_: next
<doko_> this week:
<doko_>  - OOo update to 2.0.4 rc3, python to 2.4.4 rc1
<doko_>  - fixing build failures; toolchain & python
<doko_>  - new hplip 1.6.9 package
<doko_>  - some more package syncs
<doko_> next week:
<doko_>  - OOo 2.0.4 final?, python2.4.4 final
<doko_>  - bugs
<doko_> bug status:
<doko_>  - #56779, #57121: python upgrade errors; not reproducible in standard
<doko_>    dapper -> edgy upgrades by mvo and me.  still investigating.
<doko_>  - #64604: python2.5 installation error; most likely the same problem
<doko_>    as above; investigating.
<doko_>  - #64014 ([ia64]  libgcc1: undefined reference to `_Unwind_GetIPInfo')
<doko_>    fixed.
<mdz> doko_: it may not be realistic to drop in the final oo.o and pytho
<mdz> n
<mdz> oo.o in particular is disruptive to the release process even if the changes are tiny
<Kamion> python may be more realistic than oo.o; at least we can feasibly read the diff there
<Kamion> and expect it to build in reasonable time
<mdz> yes, and the diff is likely to be tiny
<doko_> therefore the "?"; will send an email about OOo. if we can do the OOo build on a weekend, it wouldn't hurt
<mdz> for the same reason, of course, it doesn't add much value :-)
<doko_> mdz: marketing :-)
<mdz> doko_: if oo.o is released in time to build it over this weekend, that would be perfect
<mdz> but I'm not keen to update it after RC at all
<doko_> ok
<mdz> we'll see what happens
<mdz> doko_: I spoke with kiko yesterday; we should be able to open edgy+1 shortly and start toolchain testing
<mdz> did hplip 1.6.9 go ok?  no reports of regressions?
<Kamion> what do we do about inheritance of the uploads to edgy after edgy+1 opens?
<BenC> doko_: I have 2.6.19 kernel packages ready if you need/want them for toolchain bootstrapping
<doko_> fine. haven't read any; tkamppeter closed some more hplip reprots
<mdz> ok, thanks doko_
* dholbach hugs super-doko_
<mdz> infinity: next
<infinity> Kamion: I was about to ask the same question, since we currently can't copy packages between releases without great pain.
<doko_> BenC: sure, would be ok for the headers.
<infinity> Done:
<infinity>  - Archive rebuild kicked off, in progress, and FTBFS-fixing uploads have been happening as quickly as I can fix and/or delegate
<infinity>  - Spent a great deal of the week in sessions with the Soyuz folks over various bugs and misfeatures, as well as some minor fallout from the apt-ftparchive upgrade
<BenC> doko_: Although it may be better to use a stable kernel header package
<infinity>  - Plenty of archive maintenance tasks, clearing out queue/new on a far more regular basis (we sure do like to upload just before a freeze, don't we?)
<infinity> To do:
<mdz> Kamion: they have a couple of reasonable-sounding plans
<infinity>  - Lots more FTBFS bugs to fix and delegate, I'm afraid.  They keep rolling in.
<infinity>  - Archive administration for the freeze/release.
<infinity>  - Make sure we're ready for edgy-security and edgy-updates.
<infinity>  - Make sure my Soyuz bits are ready to open edgy+1.
<infinity> Milestone bugs:
<infinity>  - #61684: livefs task/metapackage mangling, should be fixed already, but confirming the fix is working as expected before I close it
<infinity>  - #63336: bizarre samba rc?.d symlinks appearing from nowhere, this was fixed once in hoary(?), but seems to have come back, however the package that used to cause the bug no longer seems to contain the buggy code.. I'm at a loss
<infinity>  - #63693: conffile upgrade prompt with initramfs-tools, looks like it may have been a bug in dapper's d-i.  Once I install a dapper system and confirm the bug, the fix is trivial and non-intrusive (copy and paste of some code from dapper, even)
<mdz> Kamion: to copy over the changed edgy packages before we open it for real
<mdz> (everyone: it's a good idea to use 'bug <num>' notation so that we get bug URLs from the bot)
<Kamion> infinity: 61684 seems to be fine on the livefs, but due to the Malone bug where you can't open another task once one is open without a sourcepackage, it's metamorphosed into a bug about tasksel/apt-get install taskname^
<infinity> Kamion: Heh, fair enough.  Feel free to assign it to you from here on in, then. :)
<keescook> mdz: use 'bug <num>' even for non-milestone bugs in our report this week?
<mdz> keescook: milestone bugs
<mdz> the ones I'm likely to want to look at :-)
<Kamion> infinity: or we can open a task on /products/ubuntu-cdimage for the livefs bits
<Kamion> might do that, actually
<keescook> mdz: right, thanks.
<mdz> Kamion: good idea
<infinity> Kamion: open a task on products/malone while you're at it, to prove a point. :P
<mdz> infinity: these ftbfs are from the edgy rebuild?
<fabbione> mdz: yes
<infinity> mdz: Indeed.  Most are manageable so far, just a few more than I'd been hoping to see, and far later than we'd been hoping to get this off the ground.
<mdz> infinity: where they're not immediately fixable by you, they should be milestoned
<infinity> mdz: Understood.  Anything I can't fix or delegate immediately, I'll file and milestone.
<mdz> thanks infinity
<mdz> pitti: next
<pitti> Done:
<pitti>  * security updates: PHP, Mozilla, 
<pitti>  * Edgy security review, applied a few missing patches that fell through the cracks; in a good state now
<pitti>  * caught up with pending MIRs
<pitti>  * bug triage/fix sprint; brought my own milestone bug list down to zero, starting to look into unassigned milestone bugs and general FTBFS issues from autotests builds now
<pitti>  * transition uploads to get rid of gnutls11 in universe, leaving us with only two gnutls versions for edgy (12 in universe, 13 in main); needs to be removed from the archive now (infinity might have already done that)
<pitti>  * new langpacks for edgy and dapper-proposed
<pitti> Todo:
<pitti>  * CD testing
<pitti>  * helping with release-critical bug and FTBFS fixing wherever I can 
<pitti>    - bug #62593 is my pet bug on the list ATM; I'm sure I can fix it soon
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62593 in evolution-data-server "Does not display alarms until I start evolution" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62593
<pitti>    - ogra noticed that edgy's gstreamer breaks the LTSP audiosink magic; if that's considered release critical, I'll fix that by tomorrow evening, too
<pitti>    - currently dealing with various FTBFSes (partly fixed already), poppler ABI change, etc.; my current list should get done today; I'm certain that infinity has more stuff to look into :)
<pitti>  * think about and draft SRU policy for langpacks
<pitti>  * question to mdz/tfheen/Kamion: when shall I upload the final edgy langpacks? Another round would be nice for last polish and to pick up the KDE 3.5.5 translations (they came too late for the current packs)
<mdz> ogra: breaks how?
<ogra> mdz, it defaults to alsa instead of esd
<pitti> ogra: it uses dmixsink now instead of esdsihnk
<ogra> which doesnt help much with ESPEAKER
<mdz> when did that change?
<Kamion> pitti: language pack translation deadline is next Thursday
<tfheen> pitti: langpack translations is at the same time as RC, isn't it?
<tfheen> so I'd say Friday.
<mdz> pitti: the day after RC
<pitti> the patch is still there, but it somehow broke (I guess due to shifted priorities); I didn't investigate yet
<ogra> mdz, no idea, my users here always worked i noticed it just recently
<mdz> pitti: what's the fix?
<Kamion> does make rather a joke out of the notion of a release "candidate"; perhaps we should revisit that scheduling next time, when we have a little more space to play with
<ogra> (from a fresh cd install)
<mdz> Kamion: indeed, I thought so too
<pitti> mdz: alright, will upload them directly after RC then
<pitti> mdz: fix> didn't look into it yet, but I guess it should be a trivial one-liner change to adapt priority
<mdz> Kamion: have made a note for mountain view
<ogra> pitti, now that i know where to look i can probably tackle it myself 
<pitti> well, I can also live with not updating the packs any more, and using edgy-proposed/-updates after release
<mdz> pitti: we ought to fix that, given that it's a feature we promote in the release notes etc.
<Kamion> at the very least there should be an update on Monday or so, if not next Friday
<pitti> mdz: ok, I'll look for the bug and add the milestone
<pitti> oh, bug 65690
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65690 in gst-plugins-good0.10 "should select the esdsink for LTSP_CLIENTs" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65690
<ogra> right
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks pitti
<Kamion> but I think Friday's probably better
<mdz> mvo: next
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - bugtriage/testing/various fixes
<mvo> - lots of upgrade testing/testing the upgrader
<mvo> - fix synaptic performance regression (#63171)
<mvo> - fix language-selector problem when new fontconfig fragments are added (#62869)
<mvo> - investigate popcon #64122, fixed by forced reconfigure for older versions
<mvo> - non-free icons issue of app-install-data (#61076) with mdy - one icon needs to be rechecked, rest is ok
<mvo> - dist-upgrader fixes (kubuntu upgrades work now, vanishing icons fixed, fixes in the quirks handling, discoverd problem with dist-upgrades when only cdrom is used #65679
<mvo> - fixed dist-upgrae postinst failure of linux-image-$foo by fixing the update-grub script
<mvo> - fixed apt-index-watcher corrupting the pkgcache and causing crashes
<mvo> - memleask/proxy-problem fixed in update-manager
<mvo> - - g-a-i desktop files updated for RC
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - bugfixing/bugtriage
<mvo> - upgrade testing/cd testing
<mvo> Interessting milestone bugs:
<mvo> - bug #61076: we should be fine, awaiting confirm from mdy for a outstanding clarification on one icon
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61076 in gnome-app-install "app-install-data contains non-free icons from multiverse, app-install-data-commercial contains even more unfree stuff" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61076
<mvo> - bug #61684: needs fixing in aptitude or exchanging aptitude with the apt-get way to install tasks
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61684 in ubuntu-cdimage "Removing any u-desktop depdencency marks all other packages for auto-removal (on alternate install)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61684
<mvo> - bug #63396 we could add a special case for this in the upgrader 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63396 in imake "Upgrading to edgy beta leavs imake and makedepend" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63396
<mvo> - bug #63680 no progress :/ putting it into the release notes may be the only option
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63680 in apt "dapper -> edgy dist-upgrade holds back essential packages" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63680
<mvo> - bug #64395 can't reproduce
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64395 in gcj-4.1 "Update manager aborts on eclipse-platform-gcj when updating from Dapper to Edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64395
<mvo> - bug #65679 not analyized yet, but it looks not easy (apt-get dist-upgrade dies early)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65679 in update-manager "cdrom only dist-upgrade not working because of openoffice.org-l10n" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65679
<Viper550> excuse me, but from what I heard, Edgy will be released with Dapper's artwork, why did you do this?
<mdz> mvo: 61684 only pertains to the alternate CD now, right?  it's fixed properly for the desktop cd?
<fabbione> mvo: bug 63396 is a mix of things.. IIRC Kamion said something about archive that didn't drop a package?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63396 in imake "Upgrading to edgy beta leavs imake and makedepend" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63396
<Kamion> mdz: it does appear to be
<Kamion> mdz: I tried it out today and am not noticing weirdness so far
<mvo> mdz: yes, the desktop cd should be fine
<mdz> Viper550: please take that discussion to the art mailing list; we're short on time here
<fabbione> Viper550: we are in a meeting and this is offtopic here.
<mdz> Viper550: fschoep will provide background there
<Kamion> fabbione: those packages certainly aren't in the NBS list any more
<Kamion> unless they're whole source packages that need to be removed
<mdz> infinity,mvo,Kamion: fine = the awful hack we used for beta, or a proper fix now?
<Kamion> in which case let ubuntu-archive know ASAP
<fschoep> I'm on it
<fabbione> Kamion: ok. there was more to be done and it was assigned to rodrigo.. we should look at it again.
<mvo> fabbione: isn't it only a missing transitional package?
<infinity> mdz: It installs ubuntu-live as a task now, which mvo assures me should work, however the awful hack is still in there *too*.  I'll remove it tomorrow and make sure that doesn't break anything.
<fabbione> mvo: no.. imake is provided by xutils-dev.. let's talk about it after the meeting
<mvo> fabbione: ok
<infinity> mdz: The awful hack remained purely for paranoia's sake until I had a chance to rsync some images and test for myself.
<mvo> infinity: please keep me updated on this too 
<mdz> infinity: ok
<infinity> mvo: Oh, you'll hear from me if it braks. :)
<infinity> s/braks/breaks/
<mvo> you mean I will hear the yelling all over the ocean?
<infinity> Possibly. :)
<mvo> the cdrom->cdrom upgrade thing is currently the only one that makes me kind of nervous
<mdz> mvo: please draft a note for 63680
<mdz> mvo: you think one final upgrader update before RC?
<mvo> mdz: I will draft a note. I have one (trivial) patch pending for the upgrader
<mvo> and I would like to do a i18n update too if possible
<mdz> mvo: 61684 -> I prefer that we switch to apt-get; that's what we're using for the livefs, yes?
<infinity> Indeed.
<Kamion> mdz: that's what I'm planning to do, yes
<mvo> mdz: yes
<Kamion> mvo says the aptitude fix is hard
<mdz> indeed
<mvo> unfortunately :/ 
<mdz> mvo: ok, thanks
<mdz> BenC: next
<mvo> I can give it a deeper look though
<BenC> 64430: T42 Crash in e1000 on suspend: Working on this with mdz
<BenC> 43531: Seems I forgot to make these uploads. Just adds a Provides for all boot loaders of "boot-loader", and adds a "no-boot-loader" meta-package to linux-meta. Will upload today.
<BenC> 63553: Ricoh R5C822 card reader doesn't detect inserts. Patch applied. If another upload is done, it will get included.
<BenC> General kernel: All security updates done. Most major regressions handled. May have one more upload before release, but not likely.
<Kamion> mvo: probably not worth the time right now
<Kamion> BenC: no-boot-loader is still such an incredibly confusing name given the existence of nobootloader :-/
<fabbione> BenC: re 64430 you want to ask davem, he knows about this PM bug in the e1000. it's probably the same that generate the HV crash on Niagara
<BenC> Kamion: Any suggestions?
* sivang -> (sent and update to mdz)
<tfheen> BenC: what about bug 33950 ?   You targetted it for 6.10?
<BenC> fabbione: Ok
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 33950 in linux-source-2.6.17 "hdaps Y axis inverted" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33950
<sivang> (had to go, laters)
<mdz> BenC: bug 60231, bug 60938, bug 62685, bug 33950, bug 58742 all seem to be targeted
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60231 in linux "wg511 pccard not loaded (regression: dapper -> edgy)" [Unknown,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60231
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60938 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17 "ath_hal missing from modules.dep" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60938
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62685 in linux-source-2.6.17 "[Edgy regression]  Hostap driver for PRISM2 wifi card not working any more" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62685
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58742 in linux-source-2.6.17 "[edgy]  Important dvb-ttpci modules are missing in edgy!" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58742
<BenC> bug 33950 ?
<Kamion> BenC: virtual, null, not sure really, none seem compelling :-/
<infinity> bug 60938 is a complete mystery to me, I've never been able to reproduce it.
<mdz> Kamion,BenC: "manual"?
<Kamion> mdz: good idea
<BenC> I didn't see 58742, I'll check on that today
<BenC> ok, manual-boot-loader it is
<mdz> I experienced 60938 though I am at a loss to explain how it could have happened
<BenC> 60938 sounds like a race to me
<infinity> mdz: Can't reliably reproduce it, I take it? :/
<BenC> some how depmod isn't getting run, or is run at the wrong time
<mdz> if you guys have older kernels installed, search your old modules.dep and see if any are missing restricted modules
<infinity> BenC: We run it from the lrm postinst, so that's pretty sketchy..
<BenC> it doesn't sound possible though
<seb128> mdz: I've to go now, is that ok?
<mdz> seb128: ok, good night
<seb128> thanks
<mvo> bye seb128
<mdz> infinity: if you would prepare a quick recipe people could paste to check whether they've been affected, and mail it out, that might help
<mdz> we could at least estimate how many people were affected
<infinity> mdz: I'll do so in the morning, sure.
<infinity> mdz: Make sure to list it in the "meeting deliverables" mail, so I don't forget when I pass out in a few minutes. :)
<BenC> mdz: I just checked ubuntu-6.10 bugs that were assigned to me, so I'll get on those other ones
<mdz> there are some conditions in both lrm-manager and linux-image.postinst, but they're pretty unlikely to be wrong
<infinity> Yeah, I'm re-reading lrm-manager now..
<mdz> BenC: ok, please mail me after you've looked at the others
<mdz> BenC: ok, thanks
<mdz> ogra: next
<ogra> * last-week:
<ogra>  - fixed the remaining edubuntu and ltsp bugs
<ogra>  - go over screensaver and powermanager bugs, fix the non intrusively fixable ones
<ogra>  - fixed 640x480 usplash theme
<ogra>  - fix some edubuntu defaults
<ogra>  - several CD tests
<ogra>  - cared for MV sponsorings and arrangements
<ogra> * next week:
<ogra>  - RC testing etc
<ogra>  - post RC: fill CD with langpacks where space is left
<ogra>  - look into bug #65693, bug #65690 and #49441
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65693 in edubuntu-artwork "progressbar is distorted " [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65693
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65690 in gst-plugins-good0.10 "should select the esdsink for LTSP_CLIENTs" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65690
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 49441 in Baltix "Should not choose GL screensavers when no acceleration is available" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49441
<mdz> ack, 49441 is still around?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> and it might be a bit intrusive to fix ...
<mdz> it is too late to fix
<ogra> i'm considering disabling random in g-s-s 
<mdz> it's also a duplicate
<mdz> has upstream shown any interest?
<ogra> well, its mostly X breakage ... 
<mdz> oh?
<ogra> so upstrema doesnt really care ... 
<fabbione> ogra: did you just volunteered to take over X for edgy+1?
<ogra> indeed, if your system dies because of extensive mesa usage
* tfheen ^5-s fabbione
<ogra> fabbione, who does edubuntu and ltsp then ?
<mdz> ogra: how is it an X issue? does X not allow the application to check whether opengl is accelerated?
<ogra> mdz, X does 
<mdz> then what's the trouble?
<ogra> but that the screensavers break at all is a GL/Mesa issue
<mdz> they're incredibly slow unless acceleration is available
<ogra> i have a warty laptop here that has no GL and all GL savers run fine without making it melt
<ogra> its true that they eat CPU, but not in an amount that breaks the system
<mdz> it takes the entire CPU on my desktop without accel
<ogra> right
<mdz> a screensaver shouldn't do that
<mdz> anyway, it's too late (again!) to fix this
<ogra> and it did so in dapper and breezy, but before GL savers were fine
<ogra> ok, i'll have a backportable fix for release then ...
<mdz> they weren't in my experience
<mdz> thanks ogra
<mdz> iwj: next
<iwj> automated-testing-deployment: Automated testbed (Xen guest) creation packaged up.  Working on tearing apart adt-virt-chroot to make adt-virt-xenlvm too.
<iwj> firefox: 2.0rc2 in edgy, calling itself `Firefox'.  2.0 final has missed the boat, but rc2 seems to be working well enough.
<iwj> next week: holiday
<iwj> edgy-targeted bug #30791 (compreg.dat): partial workaround (rm in postinst) deployed but we still don't know the real cause and can't fix until we do :-/.  I think this bug no longer needs to be on the radar for the edgy release so I have de-targeted it.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30791 in firefox "firefox 1.4.99 upgrade still have compreg.dat, creates issue" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30791
<iwj> edgy-targeted bug #57161 (libsmjs-dev etc, eclipse): Communications with submitters don't seem very good, but: I still think this should be fixed by use of firefox's -dev packages, as I say in the report.  Unfortunately I think it is now too late to fix this in the libsmjs etc. packages (in universe).  Certainly it is too late to make any kind of structural change to the libraries provided by firefox.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57161 in xulrunner "Impossible to install libsmjs-dev with firefox present" [Unknown,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57161
<iwj> nothing else for edgy on my plate that I know of.
<mdz> iwj: shouldn't be too late to fix things like that in universe, if we have a fix in hand
<iwj> mdz: I don't think we do have a fix in hand.
<iwj> I mean, I have a suggestion for what to do, but there is no concrete patch or anything and no-one has tested it.
<iwj> We don't even know if what I suggest will work, although I think it will.
<doko_> mdz: I'm still looking to build eclipse using firefox-dev.
<mdz> iwj: wouldn't this problem date back to before edgy?
<iwj> mdz: Yes.
<iwj> At least, unless libsmjs etc. changed.
<iwj> I'm afraid I don't know much about them.
<mdz> iwj: 30791 has no milestone set
<tfheen> mdz: he said he de-targeted it
<iwj> mdz: Yes, I unset the milestone because the partial workaround I've deployed is what we're doing for edgy.
<mdz> ok
<tfheen> we've deployed a workaround (rm-ing compreg.dat in postinst) which is not ideal, but might help
<mdz> iwj: what's the word from sysadmin about deploying automated testing?
<iwj> It's certainly safe and it might help gather information and will make it easier to fix broken systems.
<Kamion> xulrunner is fairly new; I'm not sure it was in <edgy?
<iwj> mdz: I haven't spoken to them recently.  I'm still putting pieces together.
<iwj> Kamion: That may be true.
<mdz> ok
<iwj> mdz: re automated testing, I had agreement in principle.
<Kamion> ah, xulrunner is only in edgy, but libsmjs-dev predates edgy
<iwj> Presumably libsmjs-dev changed its dependencies in Debian.
<Kamion> it used to come from spidermonkey
<mdz> iwj: it seems unlikely to be deployed now, and is too late to reap benefit for edgy anyway
<mdz> iwj: please mark deferred
<iwj> Willdo.
<iwj> I'll keep working on it though ...
<mdz> thanks iwj
<mdz> sfllaw: next
<sfllaw> Done:
<sfllaw>  * Hug Day
<sfllaw>  * Bug triage
<sfllaw>  * Testing/Current
<sfllaw> To do:
<sfllaw>  * Cupsys SRU (bug 54277)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54277 in cupsys "cupsd can't access /var/log/cups/error_log permission denied" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54277
<sfllaw>  * Hal SRU (bug 56484)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56484 in hal "hal does not detect non-ATAPI CD-ROM drives" [Unknown,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56484
<sfllaw>  * Bug triage
<sfllaw>  * Testing/Current
<sfllaw>  * Hug Day
<sfllaw> ogra: Since you have the hardware that can reproduce the hal change, could you install hal from dapper-proposed and give it a spin?
<sfllaw> tfheen: Which CD images should we be targetting in Testing/Current?
<mdz> sfllaw: do you have a plan for testing RC?
<tfheen> sfllaw: none yet; I'll build candidate images on Monday.
<sfllaw> Yes.
<ogra> sfllaw, will do so, but i need a free machine for dapper first
<tfheen> sfllaw: 54277 isn't targetted
<mdz> sfllaw: is it in the wiki?
<pitti> ogra: that's the SCSI/USB cd-rom issue I fixed in Wiesbaden
<tfheen> sfllaw: neither is 56484
<dholbach> tfheen: that's a stable release update, no?
<sfllaw> Not anything further than Testing/Current.
<ogra> pitti, yep, i saw the mail
<pitti> sfllaw: these were dapper-proposed uploads
<pitti> tfheen: ^ sorry
<tfheen> dholbach: oh, true.
<pitti> they are both fixed in edgy
<sfllaw> We'll be doing lab testing which should give us good results.
<sfllaw> But we will need people to chip in with PPC and Sparc hardware.
<sfllaw> As we don't have enough of that.
<fabbione> sfllaw: you have 2 sparc gears at the DC
<fabbione> sfllaw: those are the one you care the most
<sfllaw> fabbione: DC?
<dholbach> data centre?
<mdz> sfllaw: what we need is a list of tasks and who will carry them out
<sfllaw> fabbione: Are you referring to the certification lab?
<fabbione> sfllaw: yes
<mdz> all of the high priority test cases should have a name attached and a commitment to complete the test on schedule
<sfllaw> OK.  Well, I will look for volunteers to help with PPC then.
<mdz> high priority should cover all ISOs, at least one install test per
<sfllaw> We can do lots of Intel and AMD64 machines in parallel.
<sfllaw> Since the office bandwidth will be low, I'm going to do downloads from home and ship them there by sneakernet.
<mdz> sfllaw: there's a wiki list of who has what hardware; don't wait for volunteers but rope them in
<sfllaw> OK.
<Keybuk> mdz: where is that page?  I need to remove my ppc from it
<mdz> Keybuk: canonical wiki
<keescook> sfllaw: I have two PPC here, let me know where I can help
<sfllaw> https://wiki.canonical.com/StaffHardware
<sfllaw> keescook: Thanks.
<dholbach> i need to get memory for my old ppc over the weekend, so i can do at least an alternate installer test
<sfllaw> Can we all update https://wiki.canonical.com/StaffHardware then?
<pitti> will o
<sfllaw> Stylish!
<pitti> do, even
* fabbione start to feel hungry
<mdz> sfllaw: I'll sketch an outline of what I mean for the testing process and we'll go over it tomorrowish
<mdz> sfllaw: thanks
<sfllaw> Thanks.
<mdz> fabbione: next
<fabbione> Done
<fabbione>  * RC bug fixing. My personal list has been emptied a week ago or so, picked up some random one from the others.
<fabbione>  * More of the above.
<fabbione>  * install/upgrade testing on sparc/i386.
<fabbione>  * Setup super buildd of death for sparc (running as we speak).
<fabbione>  * Started beta testing program for one ISV.
<fabbione>  * cpio/LSB funtastic. no regressions so far. will unsubscribe myself tomorrow as specified by SRU procedures.
<fabbione>  * Fixed redhat-cluster-suite dapper -> edgy upgrade with help from Kamion.
<fabbione> To do
<fabbione>  * Team up with infinity to fix FTBFS from the above (plenty to investigate).
<fabbione>  * More testing on sparc.
<fabbione>  * Write wiki upgrade procedure for redhat-cluster-suite.
<fabbione> Note:
<fabbione>  * while the sparc buildd of death is running, i *am* less responsive on IRC because i often need to head out of the office because it's just too noisy.
<fabbione> mdz: i would like to take 2 minutes of your time after the meeting.
<mdz> sfllaw: oh, and when targeting any new bugs which don't have an assignee, please notify me, as I'm keeping track out of band
<mdz> fabbione: no problem
<sfllaw> mdz: Targetting?
<Kamion> sfllaw: milestone ubuntu-6.10
<mdz> sfllaw: if you come across a bug in triage which ought to be targeted, and target it, I'd like to hear about it asynchronously
<sfllaw> mdz: Ah.  Will do.
<fabbione> mdz: possibly after dinner.. when i wrote the report it was 2 hours ago :)
<mdz> fabbione: no targeted bugs for sparc?
<fabbione> mdz: nope.. all cleared
<mdz> cool
<fabbione> mdz: well modulo the FTBFS that i am still parsing
<fabbione> mdz: all the other stuff looks good
<mdz> infinity: sparc is covered by the rebuild test?
<infinity> mdz: Doubly-so, both in the DC and on Fabio's rig.
<fabbione> mdz: yes.. i did setup 24 buildd's here
<mdz> fabbione: !
<mdz> 24?
<mdz> one for every hour of the day?
<fabbione> mdz: yes.. on the Niagara
<fabbione> mdz: ahah no.. just a bit of hacks around dak
<Kamion> make -j24 fabbione
<fabbione> Kamion: ROFL
<ogra> heh
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks fabbione
<mdz> Kamion: next
<Kamion> Done:
<Kamion>   usplash: Made tasksel install xserver-xorg before usplash, fixing resolution detection.
<Kamion>   ubiquity: Fixed DCOP handling so that the KDE frontend can reboot properly and disable the media notifier. Fixed manual partitioning summary. Fixed several nasty bugs with tens of reports each. Quick accessibility tweak for Henrik (orca). Pulled in final translations. Pretty happy with the state of the world here.
<Kamion>   sane-installer-keyboard: Default keyboard layout in ubiquity fixed. Beat up keymapper and cdebconf-keystep until they can detect a UK keymap correctly again.
<Kamion>   misc: LVM and RAID polished up in d-i; likewise XFS. ia64 fixes in d-i. Kickstart fixes for prebaseconfig -> finish-install renaming. Fixed system-config-kickstart. Killed off the *-live metapackages, now don
<Kamion> e using tasks.
<Kamion>   milestone-bugs: Two left assigned to me at present: bug 61684 (tasksel vs. aptitude vs. apt-get) should be straightforward now, and is tangled up with bug 62712 (language-support-* automarking) so both will probably be fixed at once.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61684 in ubuntu-cdimage "Removing any u-desktop depdencency marks all other packages for auto-removal (on alternate install)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61684
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62712 in debian-installer "Language support packages are marked as automatically installed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62712
<Kamion> To do:
<Kamion>   misc: Make d-i use apt-get to install tasks rather than aptitude, to help apt's autoremove facilities (bug 61684). Bug 62712 will probably be fixed in the process. Be a general consultant for as many other RC bugs as I can. Release candidate CD preparation and testing.
<Kamion>   ubiquity: Bug triage ad infinitum.
<Kamion>   fonts: Either we need ttf-dzongkha and ttf-khmeros in desktop (a little over 1MB total), or we should remove Dzongkha and Khmer from the list of languages presented by ubiquity. Sorry for not sorting this out earlier.
<mdz> Kamion: has oem been tested lately?
<Kamion> not this week
<pitti> yes, I did
<Kamion> ah
<pitti> worked like charm now
<mdz> good
<Riddell> it's reported to work well on kubuntu
<Kamion> excellent
<pitti> I thought I test it early, since it was pretty problematic in beta
<Kamion> s/pretty problematic/hosed/
<Kamion> a lot of ubiquity bugs turned out to be due to log-output wrapping lines at 1024 characters
<Kamion> (only ones filed on edgy, though) fixing that fixed a bunch of weird debconf errors
<mdz> oh?
<Kamion> the hw-detect exiting 10 one, which I only figured out this afternoon
<Kamion> anyway, fonts?
<mdz> Kamion: is ubiquity actually translated into those languages?
<mdz> or the rest of the desktop?
<mdz> if so, it's worth it, if not, not
<Kamion> slightly, but not much
<Kamion> it's obvious that those fonts are missing, because Dzongkha is visible in the listbox at the very start
<Kamion> (written in its native language which shows up as boxes)
<mdz> if it isn't complete enough to go all the way through ubiquity, then I don't see the point of including it in the list
<Kamion> ok. we should probably promote the fonts to main so that d-i installs have them
<Kamion> (but maybe post-edgy now)
<Kamion> I'll rip those languages out somehow, then
<mdz> ok
<mdz> Kamion: is the ubiquity bug situation manageable?
<Kamion> yeah
<mdz> have you processed the feedback from beta?
<Kamion> I mean there are still a lot, but it's under control
<Kamion> about 80% of it, I think
<Kamion> was mostly just a few regressions; I've fixed all the ones I saw
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks Kamion
<mdz> Riddell: next
<Kamion> oh, and various people with keymap bugs
<Riddell> done: 
<Riddell>  KDE 3.5.5 uploaded, Qt 4.2 packaged (I'd still like to see it in edgy, e-mailed mdz with further rationale), koffice 1.6 packaged (no changelog yet so I don't know if it's Edgy suitable)
<Riddell> todo, bug fixing:
<Riddell>  new guidance package to bring in a couple of fixes. adept has 1 critical bug. can we turn on mdns by default in libnss-mdns? need to check KDE CUPS support in 3.5.5 some people reporting problems. CKJ has an issue with the fonts.
<mdz> Kamion: as in, bugs in the keymaps? or bugs in ubiquity?
<Riddell>  these all have fairly simple fixes except adept
<Riddell> also: 
<Riddell>  amarok 1.4.4 scheduled, very unlikely to be Edgy suitable though so I'll leave to others to package
<Kamion> mdz: mostly console-setup keymap selection bugs, plus the lack of a keyboard variant selector in ubiquity (now fixed)
<mdz> Riddell: haven't read email yet, but we need to draw a hard line on that stuff nowish.  given that qt 4.2 is already packaged separately for people who want it for kde development, I'd prefer not to risk updating our main Qt so late
<Riddell> it's not our main qt
* sivang -> back
<mdz> oh, did I misunderstand?
<Riddell> it's only used by two apps in main
<mdz> Riddell: which ones?
<Riddell> the calculator and hwdb kde client
<mdz> Riddell: ok then, if you test those thoroughly before upload, it's OK with me
<mdz> Riddell: on multiple architectures
<Riddell> thanks
<Riddell> will do
<mdz> Riddell: mdns?
<Riddell> for zeroconf
<Riddell> currently avahi isn't much use unless you edit nsswitch.conf by hand
<Kamion> mdz: bug 65676
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65676 in nss-mdns "Package should edit /etc/nsswitch.conf on install" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65676
<mdz> I don't think we want to fiddle with that at this point; NSS touches an awful lot of stuff
<Riddell> debian now does it in a postinstall script
<mdz> oh, you mean only when the package is installed
<Keybuk> Riddell: avahi works just fine without libnss-mdns
<Riddell> yes
<mdz> isn't nsswitch.conf a conffile?
<Keybuk> you only need libnss-mdns for non-infrastructure link-local networks
<Riddell> I believe it's not a conffile
<mdz> I use avahi without libnss-mdns myself
<pitti> mdz: it seems it's not a conffile
<mdz> mizar:[~]  dpkg -s base-files |grep nsswitch
<mdz>  /etc/nsswitch.conf 3114ea9cf2f3bd8d120b4da96e3832d5 obsolete
<mdz> I believe it is
<pitti> so, postinst hackery required
<Keybuk> (which we should support, but it's not the end of the world if we don't for edgy... there's even an edgy+1 spec about it)
<mdz> oh, 'obsolete'
<mdz> I'm quite happy to defer that to edgy+1, when we'll tackle the whole business once and for all
<Riddell> ok
<mdz> we don't have a milestone for edgy+1 yet, but I've made a note about it
<mdz> Riddell: have you talked with tkamppeter about the cups issues?
<iwj> It would be nice to be able to target specs etc. to it, too.
<tfheen> we should be better at using the milestone through the full release cycle.
<tkamppeter> Riddell, which CUPS issues?
<mdz> iwj: that'll happen when it's created in LP (soonish)
<iwj> RSN TM :-).
<Keybuk> iwj: specs should not be targeted until approved, no?
<mdz> tfheen: yes, that should be added to the documentation
<Riddell> mdz: not yet, they only appeared today or yesterday as people install kde 3.5.5.  since it worked fine when testing it should be a limited problem
<mdz> Riddell: ok, please do
<mdz> Riddell: you already know how to fix the cjk issue?
<iwj> Keybuk: Well, yes, but if it's already approved and deferred it would be nice to be able to retarget to edgy+1 rather than just set it to `deferred'.
<Riddell> and there's been some discussion on kde-packager on how to fix it that I need to catch up on
<Keybuk> iwj: true, true
<Keybuk> iwj: assuming the spec doesn't need rediscussion, of course
<iwj> Keybuk: Right.
<tkamppeter> Riddell, is it the problem again that KDE does not see the printers due to misinterpreteing the "Listen <domain socket>" in cupsd.conf?
<Riddell> mdz: yes, they want default font changed from DejaVu to Sans, which I need to test but should come to the same thing for users
<mdz> Riddell: what's the issue with adept? bug#?
<Riddell> mdz: bug 62610
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62610 in adept "impossible to manager repositories" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62610
<mdz> Riddell: is that new with kde 3.5.5 or unrelated?
<Riddell> mdz: it's unrelated
<mdz> Riddell: that's a regression from dapper, right? any idea when it began?
<Riddell> mdz: it is, it just needs persuaded to not disable the menu item, I've no idea what's causing it but I think it'll be easy to enough to fix even if it's just forcing it to be enabled
<mdz> seems like it would have been noticed
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks Riddell
<mdz> keescook: next
<keescook> Done:
<keescook>  * sbuild+schroot+lvm snapshot build environment finalized
<keescook>  * security updates created and released: python2.3/all, python2.4/hoary,breezy, awstats/all, bind9/edgy, libmusicbrainz/all
<keescook>  * edgy bug triage, including fixes: inkscape warning (63644), liferea crash (62863)
<keescook>  * security reviews: keeping "unchecked" CVE list short, race fixes for 14392
<keescook>  * security updates in universe: torrentflux, moodle
<keescook>  * universe openssl 0.9.7->0.9.8 rebuilds issued for 24 packages
<keescook> To do:
<keescook>  * examine/release security updates for: libksba, slapd, xorg(minor race), 65615
<keescook>  * fix remaining FTBFS or otherwise busted universe openssl 0.9.7->0.9.8 packages
<keescook>  * more universe cleanups as suggested by dholbach
<keescook> Edgy milestones:
<keescook>  * None assigned; happy to take some on, but wasn't sure which to focus on
<mdz> Riddell: (oh, also that konversation freeze exception request is still active also)
<pitti> keescook successfully announced his very first USN yesterday!! *hug*
<tfheen> keescook: I'll give you some bugs to fix if you're out of work.
<mdz> Riddell: (bug 64488)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64488 in konversation "UVFe ( main ) for konversation 1.0 to 1.0.1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64488
<mdz> Riddell: I assume you want it too?
<imbrandon> mdz yes me and sho are updating it with some additiional info now 
<keescook> tfheen: I wouldn't say I'm OUT of work.  :)  but, sure, happy to work on milestone stuff.
<tfheen> keescook :-)
<Riddell> mdz: yes, it would be good to have
<mdz> keescook: they're all assigned importance; that's a good prioritization guideline
<mdz> Riddell: would be good to have, or is important for the release?
<pitti> keescook: focus on the unassigned ones and grab those you feel comfortable with
<keescook> mdz, pitti: okay
<mdz> keescook: we'll review the bugs no one has claimed at the end of the meeting
<pitti> ah, good
<mdz> keescook: congratulations on your advisory
<keescook> thanks!  :)
<mdz> we'll find more work for you, fear not
<mdz> thanks keescook
<mdz> tfheen: next
<tfheen> done: release management
<tfheen> todo: more release management
<tfheen> status: We're frozen, RC bug fixes are trickling in, but we're at a bit too high level.  Rebuilds are uncovering too many FTBFS bugs and I'm hassling people over the outdate list.  Those are going quite well.  Installation and upgrade testing is needed, but I'd like us to be a bit more stable before starting doing that in full.
<pitti> now the only missing thing is jackass login, RT has been filed a while ago
<Kamion> mdz: would you mind if I left at this point? I was hoping to have been out of here by 16:30 UTC, and my family are starting to get twitchy
<mdz> mvo: we're still doing upgrade testing automatically, yes?
<Riddell> mdz: it's important mostly to fix right to left language support, otherwise updated translations and bugfixes are just good to have
<mdz> Kamion: ok, but please review the log after
<Kamion> will do
<Kamion> thanks
<pitti> mvo: oh, we do? what do we test, desktop->desktop or main->main upgrade tests?
<mvo> mdz: I do both, manual (to test the upgrader) and automatic
<dholbach> tfheen: what do you mean by "a bit too high level"?
<pitti> too many?
<tfheen> dholbach: we have too many RC bugs compared to what I think we should have at this point.
<mvo> pitti: currently only desktop->desktop , but the system is flexible enough to test other configurations too
<mdz> tfheen: as I mentioned to sfllaw, I'll be drafting something around installation/cd testing today.  I'll mail you/sfllaw/Kamion for feedback on it
<tfheen> mdz: thanks.
<dholbach> tfheen: ok
<Keybuk> tfheen: did you have much luck with the usplash bug?
<Keybuk> mjg59 said you were looking at it?
<mdz> tfheen: any issues with ReleaseCandidateProcess?
<tfheen> Keybuk: the nvidia one?  No, it ends up in a loop somewhere deep in x86emu.
<tfheen> Keybuk: fixing the segfault is trivial-ish.
<Keybuk> tfheen: did we decide what to do about it?
<tfheen> mdz: seems fine so far.
<mdz> tfheen: is the timing about right for switching to manual cd builds?
<tfheen> mdz: yes, I think so.
<mjg59> keybuk: I'm going to have another shot at it at the weekend, and if not fall back to vga16 for amd64
<mdz> (it's monday currently)
<Keybuk> it's the infini-loop I'm vaguely concerned about, it's actually possible for it to halt the boot process entirely
<Keybuk> on a single-cpu amd64, udev will wait for the load to go down before doing any processing
<Keybuk> so it'll sit there forever
<infinity> We may as well go manual now, given that the archive is also manual.
<fschoep> (BTW Mark is alive now it seems)
<tfheen> infinity: I don't care either way; I at least won't be able to do meaningful install/upgrade testing before we have most of the bits in.
<mdz> changing cd builds to manual means that we need to remember to run one after things build, otherwise we're perpetually out of date
<mdz> I'd almost say we should build more often during these times, so that we're more likely to be up-to-date
<infinity> Fair point.  I'll keep the dailies on for now, then.
<tfheen> leaving it on automatic until we have something with above 0-chance can be a candidate makes sense, IMO
<mdz> Keybuk: is this bug 56587 or something else?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56587 in usplash "[edgy]  usplash segfaults" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56587
<Keybuk> mdz: yes, well, something that's a duplicate of that bug with entirely different symptoms
<Keybuk> for many people, usplash doesn't segfault, but use 100% of the CPU
<mdz> do we need to revert to vga16fb on amd64?
<Keybuk> <mjg59> keybuk: I'm going to have another shot at it at the weekend, and if not fall back to vga16 for amd64
<tfheen> mdz: that's mjg59's backup solution.
<mdz> ok
<pitti> will the artwork cope with vga resolution?
<kwwii> would we then include different artwork for that arch?
<mdz> good question!
<tfheen> we'll have to test that.
<mdz> mjg59: is there a working fallback mechanism for that?
<kwwii> I'll wait for someone to grab me by the ear, then
<mjg59> mdz: It's a two-line change to the usplash init script
<mdz> mjg59: I mean for the artwork
<mjg59> As long as the artwork exists, yes
<kwwii> the 240 fewer colors _will_ make a difference
<fschoep> you think so?
<mdz> fschoep,kwwii: does the artwork exist in the current packages in edgy for vga16?
<fschoep> mdz: well, we still have Dappers, right?
<fschoep> would fit right in
<mdz> fschoep: I'm asking you
<kwwii> mdz: I would need to work on making the current design work well in 16 colors
<pitti> but we don't have the window with the text messages any more
<pitti> or, rather, we don't have any messages for that window any more
<mdz> kwwii: please do, we need to have that fallback
<mdz> kwwii: or at least the dapper artwork
<fschoep> mdz: yes, I think we can get some art for that
<kwwii> mdz: it will look a bit different though...I wil say that now
<kwwii> mdz: ok, will do
<mdz> kwwii: we have little choice
<kwwii> gotcha
<mdz> ok, thanks tfheen
<mdz> Keybuk: next
<ogra> could i be notified what to do for edubuntu if thats implemented in ubuntu ?
<mdz> ogra: the same
<Keybuk> Bug #65063 - gettext doesn't support datarootdir - Done by uploading gettext 0.15
<Keybuk> Bug #64499 - kill 1 in upstart postinst doesn't work in vmserver - Done, added || true
<Keybuk> Bug #35004 - /proc/bus/usb missing - Done by bind-mounting /dev/bus/usb there and a symlink hack to make the devices file
<Keybuk> Bug #61539 - /etc/inittab not migrated - Done, changes to ttys or commenting of shutdown command are migrated
<Keybuk> Bug #64946 - ada sync requests - Done
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65063 in gettext "Doesn't support datarootdir" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65063
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64499 in upstart "kill 1 in postinst does not work inside a vserver" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64499
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 35004 in sysvinit "USB devices are not shown in /procu/bus/usb/ causing VMWare to fail to see them" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35004
<Keybuk> Bug #65674 - pychecker sync request from doko - Done
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61539 in upstart "/etc/inittab (esp. ttys) not migrated to upstart jobs" [Wishlist,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61539
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64946 in Ubuntu "sync requests / UVF exceptions (Ada packages in universe)" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64946
<Keybuk> Bug #64938 - diacanvas sync request from doko - Done
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65674 in pychecker "sync request" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65674
<Keybuk> Bug #64909 - duplicate uuids in fstab; seems to be caused by people having dd duplicates of drives, or by FAT having not-very-unique IDs - not yet done
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64938 in diacanvas2 "sync request" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64938
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64909 in udev "Duplicate UUIDs after Edgy update" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64909
<mdz> Keybuk: is 64909 straightforward to fix?
<Keybuk> nope
<Keybuk> it's a total bastard
<mdz> it's clearly a weird corner case, but it regresses seriously
<Keybuk> /bin/sh lacks any form of hash table, or arrays, etc.
<Keybuk> so discovering further down the file that you have a duplicate of something above it ... hard
<mdz> we have more than just /bin/sh available though
<mdz> no?
<iwj> Keybuk: The shell variable namespace is a hash table.
<tfheen> Keybuk: grep the file you're building or build fragments in a directory?
<iwj> And not even that hard to use.
<ogra> bash is still our default user shell ... so it should be available in any ubuntu, no ?
<mdz> awk and perl are both around 
<Keybuk> mdz: converting the fstab migration to another language at this phase seems ... error-prone
<iwj> Or you can do something like    case "$all_uuids_seen" in *" $this_uuid "*)
<Keybuk> iwj: that was my vague plan
<Keybuk> and iterate the file twice
<mdz> Keybuk: I was thinking more to abort the migration entirely if we detect this scenario
<Keybuk> first to build a list of uuids
<Keybuk> and a second time to write out the file
<mdz> Keybuk: since we can't hope to do much good by it anyway
<Keybuk> mdz: those people will be fucked in edgy+1 ;)
<iwj> Keybuk: Since you have to write out the file in a temp name anyway, you can do both at once.
<Keybuk> we should at least let them know somehow that their system is not a very happy one
<mdz> Keybuk: they'd be fucked anyway; we can't uniquely identify their filesystems
<Keybuk> iwj: how would I rewind and delete an earlier line because the uuid has been discovered to be a duplicate?
<iwj> Keybuk: OIC
<Keybuk> mdz: but they should be at least informed of this ;)
<mdz> Keybuk: right, so we only need to detect this situation, not convert the migration to another language
<Keybuk> I did actually briefly consider extending vol_id to allow generation of a new uuid
<Keybuk> so on finding a duplicate, we could hex-edit the filesystem to change the uuid to make it not duplicate
<Keybuk> we do this already for swap partitions, after all ;)
<iwj> Keybuk: Lovely, your users with multiple uuid-using OSs will be so pleased.
* mvo needs to leave soon, appointment at 17:00UTC and I don't want to be very late 
<iwj> Even better when you have undetected multipath.
<mdz> ok
<iwj> mvo: You're already 140s late if you arrive at the appointment not.
<mdz> thanks Keybuk
<iwj> s/ not/ now
<mdz> that seems to leave the following list of targeted bugs no one seems to own
<mdz> bug 56365
<mdz> bug 63729
<mdz> bug 62135
<mdz> bug 64594
<mdz> bug 43531
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56365 in xserver-xorg-video-i810 "X crashes on second resume from suspend-to-ram on Thinkpad X41" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56365
<mdz> bug 39275
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63729 in yelp "translations patch to update from rosetta before edgy" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63729
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62135 in mesa "Support for Intel 965 (GMA X3000) doesn't work" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62135
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64594 in hubackup "[Edgy]  hurestore crashes on startup" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64594
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43531 in linux-source-2.6.15 "Kernel isn't very useful without a boot loader, but doesn't depend on one" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43531
<mdz> bug 63553
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39275 in gstreamer "AC3 videos sound WAY too soft" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39275
<mdz> bug 64053
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63553 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Ricoh R5C822 reader only works when booted with card inserted" [Medium,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63553
<mdz> bug 64171
<mdz> bug 63325
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64053 in kde-guidance "does not recognize ibook as a laptop" [Medium,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64053
<mdz> bug 64978
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64171 in usplash "Colors look bad " [Medium,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64171
<mdz> bug 65665
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63325 in kde-systemsettings "systemsettings won't load the desktop_kde-systemsettings.mo translation in Edgy" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63325
<mdz> bug 65675
<mdz> bug 65676
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64978 in kde-guidance "powermanager icon sometimes shows fully charged when not" [Undecided,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64978
<mdz> scratch 43531
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65665 in kdebase "Cups printing fails after update to kde-3.5.5" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65665
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65675 in kdebase "system menu fails to load on start" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65675
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65676 in nss-mdns "Package should edit /etc/nsswitch.conf on install" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65676
<mdz> Riddell: 64053 is the guidance bug you mentioned?
<Keybuk> mdz: 65676 should be deferred to edgy+1
<ogra> isnt hurestore in universe ?
<Riddell> mdz: yes, it's fixed in SVN, just needs an upload
<mdz> Keybuk: yes, I did that and didn't update my notes
<tfheen> mdz: bug 56365 is rodarvus?  Same goes for 62135 which seems to be fixed.  64594 is universe.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56365 in xserver-xorg-video-i810 "X crashes on second resume from suspend-to-ram on Thinkpad X41" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56365
<pitti> bug 63729 is owned by seb128, and it's not really critical any more
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63729 in yelp "translations patch to update from rosetta before edgy" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63729
<tfheen> mdz: benc claimed 43531 , 63553 is also a kernel bug.
<tfheen> 64171 will be fixed with the next usplash upload.
<tfheen> and I though 65676 was decided that we'll defer to 7.04?
<mdz> Riddell: 65665 is the cups issue you mentioned?
<mdz> Riddell: what about 65675?
<Riddell> mdz: yes
<pitti> Riddell: ping me if I can assist you with that
<tkamppeter> I needed to hammer a lot on the responsible people to get bug 65665 fixed in Mandriva 2007. They told me that it was fixed upstream in KDE 3.5.3, and we have it in KDE 3.5.5? Strange.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65665 in kdebase "Cups printing fails after update to kde-3.5.5" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65665
<Ubugtu> Mandriva bug 2007 in Installation "Switching to alternate screens during install crashes X" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2007
<Riddell> mdz: I think 65675 is fixed in kde 3.5.5, I just need to try a CD build to confirm
<mdz> dholbach: do you know anything about bug 39275?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39275 in gstreamer "AC3 videos sound WAY too soft" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39275
<tkamppeter> bug 65675
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65675 in kdebase "system menu fails to load on start" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65675
<keescook> 39275 is universe, too.
<Keybuk> mdz: it says fixed released? :)
<mdz> keescook: yeah, but it matters ;-)
<mdz> Keybuk: released upstream
<mdz> too much for ubugtu's simple brain
<Keybuk> heh
<keescook> I can take on tracking down the fix for 39275.
<mdz> bug 62135 looks like it should have an upload waiting in the queue
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62135 in mesa "Support for Intel 965 (GMA X3000) doesn't work" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62135
<dholbach> mdz: no, not at all - will try to get som input on it
<mdz> hmm, actually it's already accepted
<mdz> so I'll mark that fix released
<mdz> is that everything?
<dholbach> ogra: bug 57588 seems to affect edubuntu-artwork too - i just added a task to the bug
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57588 in edubuntu-artwork "GDM themes do not have pam-message item" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57588
<ogra> dholbach, ok
<mdz> 63729 is fairly trivial
<dholbach> and probably xubuntu-artwork too
<ogra> yep
<ogra> they use gdm
<sivang> I'm already onto #64594 , but this is un universe as ogra noted, I set it to high as relative to other hubackup bugs, I did not set it to a milestone :)
<sivang> s/un/in/
<dholbach> ogra: it's a matter of their gdm theme
<mdz> sivang: milestone cleared
<tfheen> sivang: as long as it's universe, it's not on the release team's radar anyway.
<ogra> mine is inherited from Human 
<ogra> so it will affect me too
* mvo really needs to run now, hope that this is ok
<mdz> ogra,dholbach: please add tasks to 57588 as necessary
<mdz> mvo: yes, thanks
<dholbach> mdz: yep
<sivang> I'd be happy to take on some milestone critical stuff, or help others with theirs.
<sivang> (though)
<pitti> are you guys fine with me fixing bug 61184 for edgy?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61184 in hal "Screen brightness buttons don't work properly on Thinkpad Z61T" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61184
<ogra> done
<pitti> it affects quite a number of Thinkpads
<tkamppeter> mdz, I have to leave at 17:45 UTC, so I should probably post my report now.
<mdz> sivang: you know where the list is
<mdz> tkamppeter: go ahead
<pitti> and it's a trivial fix in the fdi files (no code changes)
<tkamppeter> Report Oct 6 - 12, 2006
<tkamppeter> DONE:
<tkamppeter>  - UVF ER for HPLIP 1.6.9 due to several issues which are fixed
<tkamppeter>    upstream and trying to fix bug 32302 bug 47306 bug 61419 bug 62718 bug 49030 bug 58727 bug 59409 bug 60242 bug 62506, Ubugtu, give your talk now!
<tkamppeter>    Investigation of Debian 1.6.7 version which has big changes
<tkamppeter>    in the build system, which do not straightly apply on 1.6.9, as HP did
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 32302 in gnome-cups-manager "Duplicate printers listed when adding HP printer" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32302
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47306 in hplip "hp-print fails to open paths with non-ascii characters (fix expected in 1.6.9)" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47306
<tkamppeter>    several build system improvements throughing away Debian's build system
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61419 in hplip "The printer HP 1310 prints erroneus colors" [Low,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61419
<tkamppeter>    changes seems perhaps only way to continue. doko built a 1.6.9 with
<mdz> pitti: yes
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62718 in hplip "[Edgy]  Current Updates (2006-09-27) Break HPLIP" [Low,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62718
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 49030 in hplip "HP 5940 prints black boxes when printing 2 pages on 1" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49030
<tkamppeter>    the help of the Debian maintainer. Results:
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58727 in hplip "bug in hplip .deb removal script" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58727
<tkamppeter>     o fax problems in 1.6.7 and fixed by 1.6.9 tested on Mandriva 2007 with 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 59409 in hplip "Fax PPD not installed by default" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59409
<tkamppeter>       PhotoSmart 3300 and PhotoSmart 2600, but unfortunately on Ubuntu Edgy 
<tkamppeter>       the fax problems did not disappear, faxing does not work with both 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60242 in hplip "Removing hplip encounters errors: scanner group not empty" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60242
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62506 in gnome-cups-manager "Incorrectly Detects HP Fax device" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62506
<tkamppeter>       1.6.7 and 1.6.9. Debian package has very big patches on the build 
<sivang> mdz: will do.
<tkamppeter>       system, probably it is really messed up.
<Ubugtu> Mandriva bug 2007 in Installation "Switching to alternate screens during install crashes X" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2007
<tkamppeter>     o Printer setup programs show always a fax device under the
<tkamppeter>       auto-detected printers, independent whether there is an
<tkamppeter>       appropriate printer connected or not (bug 62506, fixed).
<tkamppeter>     o Fax PPD in wrong-sub-package, moved to hpijs (bug 59409, fixed)
<tkamppeter>     o hp-print fails to open paths with non-ascii characters (bug 47306, 
<tkamppeter>       fixed according to HP)
<tkamppeter>     o hplip unable to find and connect to network printers (bug 60125,
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60125 in hplip "hplip unable to find and connect to network printers" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60125
<tkamppeter>       "hp-probe -b net" finally works)
<tkamppeter> - Answered to bug reports
<tkamppeter> TODO:
<tkamppeter> - What decision was made on including PostScript PPDs (bug 39847)?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39847 in ubuntu-meta "ubuntu-desktop should depend on linuxprinting.org-ppds for PostScript PPDs" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39847
<tkamppeter> - Should we fix automatic firmware upload on cheapo HP lasers (setting
<tkamppeter>   some links in foo2zjs package, bug 65618 and bug 6017)?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65618 in foo2zjs "Package broken/incomplete, missing firmware files" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65618
<tkamppeter> - More test on getting fax with HPLIP really working?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6017 in dapper-backports "Update to latest package to make HP LaserJet 1020 work" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6017
<tkamppeter> - (On the Printing Summit) Talk with the HPLIP developers about Debian and
<tkamppeter>   Ubuntu in their testing schemes, as it seems that there are problems with
<mdz> tkamppeter: so the end result is that 1.6.9 seems stable?
<tkamppeter>   integration of HPLIP into these distros.
<tkamppeter> EDGY MILESTONE BUGS (printing issues, according to bug subject, all "Fix Released for Edgy):
<tkamppeter> - Bug 46595
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46595 in hplip "hplip fails to launch when installing" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46595
<tkamppeter> - Bug 57445
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57445 in foomatic-filters "Printing not possible with line break or mis-interpreted encoding in job title" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57445
<tkamppeter> - Bug  6017
<tkamppeter> - Bug 44196
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44196 in cupsys "gnome-cups-icon uses 100% CPU" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44196
<tkamppeter> - Bug 62198
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62198 in cupsys "[Edgy]  cups-included PPDs found twice" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62198
<tkamppeter> But this does not m
<tkamppeter> But this does not mean that the printing system is perfect in Edgy :(
<tkamppeter> ADDITIONAL REMARKS:
<tkamppeter> - Before release I am only available next week, the week afterwards I am on the FSG OpenPrinting Summit http://www.freestandards.org/en/OpenPrinting/SummitLexington (and if all works as planned, Edgy+1 will perhaps be the first distro with auto-download of printer drivers from the internet).
<tkamppeter> poor Ubugtu ...
<tkamppeter> Yes, but we did not get the fax working. This will remain for an official Edgy update.
<mdz> tkamppeter: regarding bug 39847, ubuntu-desktop depends on linuxprinting.org-ppds, as you should be able to see
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39847 in ubuntu-meta "ubuntu-desktop should depend on linuxprinting.org-ppds for PostScript PPDs" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39847
<mdz> this was updated last week
<tfheen> mdz: not any more, it was erronously added by Scott
<tfheen> (due to a miscommunication)
<tkamppeter> So this means that all the PPDs are available on the CD. Great!
<pitti> that package isn't split yet, but that should happen for the release, should it not?
<tfheen> I moved it to supported again.
<pitti> or that
<tkamppeter> What did you through over board to gain the space?
<mdz> is it a regression from dapper?
<tfheen> no, it's universe in dapper
<mdz> tkamppeter: is the fax issue a regression from dapper?
<tkamppeter> No, the HPLIP 0.9.x from Dapper did not support fax.
<tfheen> I'd prefer to have a split package ppds package with the most common and let the rest of the space be filled by langpacks.
<mdz> ok then
<pitti> tfheen++
<mdz> tkamppeter: what are the remaining issues in edgy which cause you to say it is not perfect?
<mdz> tkamppeter: I think it is too late to fix the firmware upload issue; doesn't that require automatic downloading of firmware from the web?
<mdz> since it is not redistributable?
<tkamppeter> Missing faxing, many small driver packages not in the distro (splix, Epson EPL-L, ...)
<tkamppeter> The missing driver problem will be solved by my FSG OpenPrinting efforts.
<tkamppeter> gnome-cups-manager unmaintained (I suggest replacing by printerdrake in Edgy+1)
<tkamppeter> Still some duplicate display of same driver (can later be solved by Foomatic or printerdrake)
<mdz> dholbach: has there been any feedback on the bluez stack update, good or bad?
<dholbach> mdz: good, just the kde pairing issue
<mdz> dholbach: regression or no?
<dholbach> mdz: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bluetooth/TestPlan
<tkamppeter> With not perfect I am comparing Edgy with Mandriva 2007, but on Mandriva I have worked for five years, on Edgy only for 1.5 months ...
<Ubugtu> Mandriva bug 2007 in Installation "Switching to alternate screens during install crashes X" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2007
<tkamppeter> Ubugtu, 2007 is the version number, shut up !!!
<dholbach> mdz: the stack changed, kde does have the necessary bits only in kdebluetooth svn
<mdz> Ubugtu: hahah
<mdz> dholbach: argh
<tfheen> can we please continue the discussion on #u-devel?  We're way overtime already.
<mdz> dholbach: bug#?
<dholbach> mdz: so we're working on a workaround with kmobiletools upstream
<dholbach> it works for him and I need to test
* fabbione is close to starvation
<mdz> any other business for the meeting?
<dholbach> bug 56651
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56651 in bluez-utils "Impossible to do pairing in Kubuntu" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56651
<dholbach> oh, somebody set to fix released
<dholbach> nice :)
<mdz> dholbach: upstream
<dholbach> ah!
<dholbach> alright
<mdz> ok, not hearing any other business, adjourned
<mdz> thanks all
<mdz> fabbione: you're mine for 2 minutes
<pitti> *phew*
<pitti> thanks all
<Riddell> dholbach: only fixed in debian
<fschoep> thanks
<fabbione> mdz: ok..
<dholbach> see you /me -> fresh air
<infinity> Given that it's nearly 3:30am, and I've been working since 7am yesterday, I may end up sleeping in a tad (or a lot) tomorrow.
<dholbach> Riddell: yep
<tkamppeter> The firmware download from the web works manually issued by the "webget" utility of foo2zjs, the problem is that our foo2zjs package is not setting some links for the UDEV script. The upstream "make install" is rather broken, on Mandriva I have completely replaced it by manual commands.
<kwwii> thanks all
<infinity> I don't imagine there are any objections?
* dholbach hugs infinity
<tkamppeter> mdz, are you still there?
<mdz> tkamppeter: yes, but having many conversations now
<tkamppeter> mdz, I think I have answered your questions now, do you still need anything from me?
<mdz> tkamppeter: since the firmware download is manual anyway, I don't see what value we get out of the symlinks, but if you subscribe me to the bug I will have a look and comment
<tkamppeter> mdz, the problem is that the firmware, once downloaded from the web to the PC, must be uploaded from the PC to the printer EVERY TIME WHEN THE PRINTER IS TURNED ON, the printer has nor ROM or NVRAM.
<tkamppeter> mdz, to make it some cents cheaper.
<tfheen> tkamppeter: dude, no need to shout.
<mdz> tkamppeter: I don't see why we need symlinks; surely we can just adjust the udev rule to point to the correct binary
<tkamppeter> mdz, the UDEV rules and the links make a script being triggered whenever the printer is turned on and this script uploads the firmware from the PC into the printer.
<mdz> tkamppeter: please review the udev rule with Keybuk and see if we can get that part fixed
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 Oct 15:00 UTC: LoCo | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<tkamppeter> The links are needed because the script recognizes by its name which model the printer is.
<tkamppeter> Keybuk, mdz, I will subscribe you to the bugs.
<tkamppeter> Subscribed Keybuk and mdz to bug 65618 and bug 6017, can you please check whether you are really subscribed?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65618 in foo2zjs "Package broken/incomplete, missing firmware files" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65618
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6017 in dapper-backports "Update to latest package to make HP LaserJet 1020 work" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6017
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 17:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 25 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu
<MagicFab> @schedule Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 17 Oct 08:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 11:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 25 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-14
<jd_>  l'attention des censeurs : violation de copyright potentielle sur le logo de http://bde.enscp.fr/ASSOS/CCP/ccp.html
<jd_> (asso de l'cole nationale suprieur de chimie de Paris)
<jd_> dtect sur un trac de la Fte de la Science
<Toadstool> ?!
<Toadstool> jd_: wrong chan ;)
<jd_> Toadstool, yep
<jd_> not a problem, I forwarded on -fr-
<tonyy> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 17 Oct 08:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 11:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 25 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu
<shawarma> @schedule copenhagen
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 17:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 25 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-15
<ryanakca> @schedule Toronto
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 17 Oct 08:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 11:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 16:00: Technical Board | 25 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu
<lguerra> @schedule bogota
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Bogota: 17 Oct 07:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 10:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 15:00: Technical Board | 25 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 17:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 25 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-08
<Burgundavia> anybody alive?
<ajmitch> vaguely, why?
<ajmitch> is there a meeting planned for now or something?
<Burgundavia> nope, sorry, wrong chan
<ajmitch> ok :)
<ziroday> @schedule Singapore
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Singapore: 10 Oct 20:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 00:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 23:00: Community Development Team | 17 Oct 00:00: Kernel Team | 18 Oct 00:00: QA Team | 24 Oct 00:00: Kernel Team
<ziroday> @now Singapore
<ubotu> Current time in Asia/Singapore: October 08 2007, 18:54:11 - Next meeting: Forum Council in 2 days
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Oct 18:00 UTC: Community Council | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-09
<jroes> @schedule charlotte
<hjjuytr12342> i got a call from the fbi saying they seen heavy net activity on my ip about torrented movies i never done that before and told them i found someone hacked into my wireless which is true when im wired ip is dif and wireless its also a dif numb im almost always wired so how do i handle this they said they can take my comp and if anythng shows up im going to prison for 10 yrs and they been asking people around and famil
<hjjuytr12342> y if they know me i told my aunt about it and she thinks i was downloading them but i never did please what do i do i am freaking out every sec of the day
<sid> !seen sabdfl
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen sabdfl - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Hobbsee> sid: /msg seenserv seen sabdfl
<Hobbsee> sid: and he'll be asleep
<sid> thanks Hobbsee
<sid> huh, za and uk are on the same time zone
<sid> I didn't know that.
<kraut> moin
<coolbhavi> hello
<popey> hello
<popey> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 09 Oct 18:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 12:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00: QA Team
<coolbhavi> Ok Will there be an interview?
<popey> an interview?
<coolbhavi> I am writing a book on hacking.... for ubuntu membership i mean...
<coolbhavi> hello... anyone out there?
<popey> this channel tends to be quiet until there is a meeting
<popey> then it's used exclusively for the meeting, so no chat
<popey> coolbhavi: did you want to interview someone?
<coolbhavi> no... Will the community councilinterview me? My interest is security,security and more security... can I talk on this today in the meeting?
<dholbach> the meeting is at 18:00 UTC, not now
<popey> why would they interview you coolbhavi ?
<coolbhavi> Hi holbach..OK only thing i wanted to know is can i speak out myself in the meeting?
<dholbach> coolbhavi: the agenda is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<coolbhavi> OK had a look at it... but.. Am I allowed to speak something about myself? this is my doubt..
<popey> not if it's not on the agenda, no
<soren> coolbhavi: Yes, there's an interview.
<coolbhavi> Ok..... then how do i express my ideas?
<coolbhavi> Open source open minds!
<popey> soren: i don't see it on the agenda
* popey opens his eyes and sees it
<soren> coolbhavi: Er... You say them?
<popey> coolbhavi: during the interview you are expected to detail what you have done for ubuntu and what you plan to do for ubuntu, talk a bit about yourself, team memberships, achievements. That kind of thing.
<coolbhavi> horrible miscommunication! blame it on myself... Ok that i can do.....
<popey> sorry, I misunderstood you.
<coolbhavi> achievements? carrying on my ubuntu education throughout my college.. Helping newbies to get their hands on ubuntu on the answer tracker, Currently working on UMC actively... !
<coolbhavi> and doing a bit of research from past 6 yrs on linux security..... And currently on Processor design...
<popey> you need to do this during the meeting, not now
<popey> the meeting is at 18:00 UTC today
<coolbhavi> Will talk on this in detail in the meeting... Thanks for the info mate... See you at the meeting! thanks again!
<popey> bye! :)
<coolbhavi> see ya
<zul> @schedule montrela
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 09 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 12:00: QA Team
<Mamarok> @schedule zurich
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 09 Oct 20:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 14:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 18:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 17:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 18:00: QA Team
<ian_brasil> @schedule manaus
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Manaus: 09 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 12:00: QA Team
<mathiaz> hi everyone !
<sommer> hey
* jdstrand waves
<dendrobates> hey all.
<dantalizing> morning
* nealmcb waves
<lionel> hi all
* Hobbsee comes in, sprays everyone with a water pistol, and leaves again.
<dendrobates> I've asked mathiaz to chair this meeting, as I am up against a few deadlines.
* nealmcb enjoys the coolness that Hobbsee contributes
<dendrobates> Hobbsee: are you coming to UDS?
* popey starts praying
<Hobbsee> dendrobates: unfortunately not :(.  boston+1, however...
<popey> is boston+1 in Aus?
* Hobbsee decided to stay at uni, as she's got an evil physics unit to pass this semester
<mathiaz> soren: around ?
<Hobbsee> popey: no idea.
<popey> its about time for one
<zul> there has already been one in aus
<Hobbsee> popey: your prayers are answered, i'm not coming to shoot you :P
<Hobbsee> popey: there's been one.
<popey> hurrah
<popey> back in 2005
<popey> that would be 3 years by the time boston+1
<zul> nah it should come back to montreal
<popey> ooo canada, never been there, that would be fun
<mathiaz> ok. so let's get started.
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:07. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
<mathiaz> the agenda for today is short.
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> [TOPIC]  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<DoctorMO> we got a meeting at 2pm (NYT)?
<ivoks> hi
<mathiaz> previous meeting logs are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20070927
<soren> Sorry, I'm here now.
<mathiaz> DoctorMO: are you talking about the New-York loco team meeting ?
<mathiaz> I just realized that the fridge is not up-to-date
<mathiaz> the ServerTeam meeting is not there...
<nealmcb> I tried to note that on #ubuntu-server, but for some reason my client doesn't want to get me there....
<mathiaz> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 09 Oct 18:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 12:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00: QA Team
<ivoks> we should speed up things then
<nealmcb> But we'll be done long before 18:00 :-)
<popey> mathiaz: there is a problem with recurring meetings on the fridge
<Hobbsee> popey: fridge didnt integrate in with launchpad did it?
<popey> Hobbsee: no its a drupal issue
<Hobbsee> popey: oh good
<mathiaz> popey: who should we contact to get this fixed ?
<mathiaz> popey: fridge-devel ?
<dendrobates> mathiaz: can we start, or is there a conflict?
<mathiaz> dendrobates: well... we've already started I think.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: the NYC is supposed to be 2:00 PM EST.
<mathiaz> soren: what's the state of the mta change wrt debian %
<mathiaz> soren: ?
<soren> I haven't written to Debian yet. It's hardy material anyway.
<popey> mathiaz: yes, but a bug has already been filed
<mathiaz> popey: ok. Thanks.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: I think you've sent the mail for the IdeaPool page for Hardy.
<mathiaz> The page is located here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/HardyIdeaPool
<dendrobates> mathiaz: yes, I did, and we had a pretty good response.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: the UDS scheduling has begun.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: ok. That means that it's too late to add new items to this page.
<mathiaz> As we're in the next phase of specification planning.
<mathiaz> I'll update the wiki page to reflect that.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: There are a few open slots, but I recommend emailing ideas to me at this point.
<mathiaz> [ACTION]  mathiaz will update the IdeaPool
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz will update the IdeaPool
<dendrobates> rick@ubuntu.com
<mathiaz> dendrobates: ok. I'll a note to the wiki page to mail you the ideas.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC]  RC iso testing.
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC iso testing.
<Hobbsee> test iso's early, or i'll come hunting!
<dendrobates> I am ready for sparc testing.
<mathiaz> We're currently in archive freeze as we're preparing for RC on thursday.
<Hobbsee> mathiaz: where do you want alerts given to to go and test?
<Hobbsee> ie, who to poke?
<Hobbsee> (although i'm assuming you'll be somewhat watching anyway)
<mathiaz> Hobbsee: we're already on the isotesting tracker.
<mathiaz> Hobbsee: there are a couple of the team members that are subscribed to test cases.
<Hobbsee> ok
<mathiaz> Hobbsee: so we're pinged when a new build is available.
<dendrobates> we always need more sparc testers.
<Hobbsee> ok
<mathiaz> I'll send an email on ubuntu-server once RC is out to ask for more testing.
<sommer> dendrobates: I have access to a Sunblade 100, is that too old?
<dendrobates> sommer: Is that an ultrasparc iii box
<dendrobates> We only officially support the t1 procs, but it doesn't hurt to test on some of the older ones as well.
<mathiaz> sommer: are you register on the iso qa tracker ?
<sommer> mathiaz: yep I registered a couple of weeks ago.
<sommer> didn't do much testing though
<mathiaz> sommer: did you subscribed to the sparc testcases ?
<sommer> I think so.
<sommer> dendrobates: I think this is the processor: UltraSPARC[tm] -IIe
<dendrobates> sommer: it is worth trying.  It should work.
<sommer> I did get one of the daily builds loaded fine.
<sommer> cool I'll get it ready for testing
<mathiaz> sommer: hum... I don't see you subsribed to the sparc test cases.
<sommer> mathiaz: I may not have gotten that far.  I may have been still reading the docs on how to test ISOs
<sommer> I set up the account before vacation
<mathiaz> sommer: ok. If you wanna get notified about new builds, you should subscribe to test cases.
<sommer> mathiaz: cool will do
<mathiaz> sommer: it may not be well documented though.
<stgraber> sommer: subscribe to the different testcases you want to do, that way you'll be notified by mail when a new ISO is out
<mathiaz> sommer: let me know if the documentation is not good enough.
<sommer> sure
<sommer> will do
<mathiaz> stgraber: did you find someone to help for you server tweaking ?
<stgraber> mathiaz: yes, asked pitti who gave me some names. I have also moved part of the LP sync proccess to my home server.
<soren> win 21
<mathiaz> stgraber: great.
<mathiaz> let's move on to the next topic
<mathiaz> [TOPIC]  use of backports for samba
<MootBot> New Topic:  use of backports for samba
<mathiaz> I had a discussion with the ScottK about using -backports to publish the latest of samba
<ScottK> The sanity threshold for -backports is pretty low, so it should be doable with a little effort.
<mathiaz> every now and then, bugs are filed to ask to upgrade to the latest version of samba, mysql, etc... for dapper especially.
<ivoks> i agree
<mathiaz> so I tought we may use dapper-backports to address this issue.
<mathiaz> I think it could also be used to see how LTS upgrade would work.
<soren> Is there a description somewhere of how to make sure you only get a particular subset of packages from the backports repository?
<soren> It's *very* likely that anyone who wants the samba packages don't want all the other crack in there.
<mathiaz> soren: can pinning be used for that in the apt configuration ?
<soren> mathiaz: Yes.
<soren> I'm just not sure if that is described properly somewhere.
<ivoks> soren: or oposite, some one who uses backports just for clamav, maybe doesn't want samba too
<mathiaz> ScottK: is there some documentation about pinning and -backports ?
<soren> If we advice our dapper users to switch on backports, we'll get an entirely different sort of problems. It needs to be easy to just use a certain set of packages from backports.
<nealmcb> sounds like it could get complicated and lead to confusion - how many packages would be related to e.g. a samba backport?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: well - all the binary packages built from the samba source package.
<nealmcb> but any dependencies on others?
<mathiaz> Moreover, -backport is not officialy supported.
<ivoks> nothing from server world
* nealmcb just hasn't used backports much....
<jdstrand> along nealmcb line of thinking, what kind of testing/support will we have for libraries that might be brought and used by other packages (that may break as a result)?
<ScottK> mathiaz: Not that I know.  I don't recommend people leave it enabled.  Just get in, get what they need, and get out.
<lionel> well, we have to be prepared to some confusion. People are not aware that backports are not supported, they have no security updates, etc.
<mathiaz> nealmcb: we can only use -backports if the package doesn't require new dependencies.
<jdstrand> s/might be brought/might be brought in by the backport/
<ScottK> mathiaz: Or we can backport the dependencies if it's reasonable.  It's particularly easy if the depens are New packages so there's no integration risk.
<soren> I'm thinking... What is the use case for this?
<mathiaz> soren: samba doesn'T support vista client in dapper.
<ivoks> imho, samba should be officialy backported (to updates) only if there is a strong reason, and for those who can live with unsupported samba, i agree that it could go to -backports
<mathiaz> soren: please upgrade to 3.0.26b so my dapper server works with vista client
<soren> mathiaz: That's a serious bug, wouldn't you say?
<mathiaz> soren: yes. But it would be very hard to get it through an SRU
<soren> mathiaz: Yes. Hard, but correct.
<mathiaz> soren: as it would involved a lot of patches.
<soren> mathiaz: I agree.
<soren> I definitely see the problem, but the feeling that going through -backports is wrong gets stronger and stronger.
<nealmcb> ahhh - do folks want 3.5 more years of hassles about that in dapper.  sigh....
<soren> We're considering using backports to accomplish something -updates is meant to accomplish.
<mathiaz> soren: yes. that's true.
<nealmcb> in 7 months we can point them to hardy, but ....
<mathiaz> soren: it's also connect to the MicroReleaseException.
<soren> nealmcb: We'll still be supporting Dapper, though.
<nealmcb> exactly
<mathiaz> soren: it seems to me that for some case (such as samba), getting through -updates can involve much more work that publishing it in -backport.
<soren> mathiaz: Unfortunately, I'm not convinced Samba is as thorough w.r.t. to regression testing as we might want it to be.
<nealmcb> which leads me to ask what the risks of just fixing it in dapper are.  and I guess how often this will crop up in the future.  damn non-standardized protocols....
<ivoks> this already happend with MacOSX
<ivoks> and now Vista
<soren> mathiaz: I agree. I'm just trying to take a step back and look at the problem rather than focus on one proposed solution and just discuss the mechanics of that.
<ivoks> it will probably happend again with Vista SP2
<mathiaz> soren: yes. I see your point.
<soren> It might turn out that -backports is the way to go, but I can't help but feel that the discussion has been shortcircuited at some poit.
<mathiaz> it seems that there is a category of software that won't fall in the MicroReleaseException, but that still need to be updated in an LTS
<soren> point.
* ScottK agrees it's better to go in -updates if it can be patched.
* nealmcb nods
<soren> The problem is that Samba in Dapper doesn't work with a large fraction of the Windows systems out there.
<jdstrand> mathiaz, soren: I just went through a review of mysql for MicroReleaseException, but there needs to be good testing and no incompatible changes
* ScottK also thinks "Use backports" should never be an official recommendation.  More like, well, if you really want the latest crack, it's in dapper-backports, but it's not supported.
<jdstrand> I don't know if samba would meet that criteria
<mathiaz> ScottK: agreed. But sometimes patching is really hard - see the mysql problem.
<ScottK> Sure.
<soren> This is a serious issue which any Dapper samba user is likely to want fixed at some point.
<mathiaz> jdstrand: I don't know either. I think samba has a test suite. But they still tend to introduce new feature and incomptible changes.
<jdstrand> soren: you are correct.  But they are also going to want a *supported* samba
<jdstrand> I am not sure backports is the answer cause it won't be officially supported
<ivoks> mathiaz: quite often
<soren> It's a slippery slope to just put it in backports and say to our users that they should stop bitching about borken samba because they can just use whatever's in -backports. -backports is unsupported, and the reason we put it in there instead of -updates is because we're not convinced it won't cause regressions.
<jdstrand> soren: exactly
<jdstrand> I think LTS customers in particular want supported packages
<Daviey> samba being a crucial server app, really should have the option of known stable and latest (supported!) version - especially on an LTS release
* jdstrand promoted LTS for that reason
<ScottK> Just for reference, current Postfix is available in dapper-backports.
<soren> ScottK: It provides new features, right?
<ScottK> soren: Yes.  Many.
<soren> "Is not broken" is not a feature. :)
<nealmcb> but the current postfix is less broken than samba?
<ScottK> Postfix in Dapper is not broken, but it's, umm, carefully designed.
<ivoks> where that came from? broken, how? :D
<ScottK> It's not.
<soren> ScottK: Ah, that's not what I meant.
<ScottK> Postfix 2.2.10 is perfectly fine if you don't need newer features.
<jdstrand> keescook: would probably slap me for saying this, but (and I am just brainstorming here) would it be possible to package the new version in 'updates', but that wouldn't be an upgrade, but rather a separate package that conflicted with samba in Dapper (obviously, a lot of packaging issues would have to be resolved, but it would give the LTS users a real choice)
<ivoks> interesting idea
<soren> I mean that Samba in Dapper is broken (since it doesn't support a lot of the clients it's meant to serve). -backports is for new features, and "Is not able to do what it's supposed to" is not a feature in that respect.
* lamont vomits on keescook's behalf
* keescook also vomits.  ;)
* jdstrand isn't thrilled by supported 2 sambas either
<keescook> jdstrand: the -updates and -security pockets need to stay "clean", unfortunately.
<jdstrand> supporting
<lamont> either it's broken and needs to be fixed, or it's not sufficiently broken and it doesn't change
<keescook> this is a problem that should be solved somehow, though.  we run into it with clamav too.
<soren> lamont: Well said.
<jdstrand> I just feel that the pockets aren't serving LTS server's needs
<jdstrand> existing pckets that is
* jdstrand is still miffed about mysql
<soren> The only reason they feel insufficient is because Samba is a scary monster.
<nealmcb> the underlying problem is trying to be compatible with a moving target which many users regard as the definition of what it means for samba to be "working" vs "broken"....
<ScottK> Clamav is even worse because due to API changes I can't even backport the current clamav to Dapper.
<jdstrand> mysql is bad boy too
<nealmcb> and they are the major use case for samba in the first place
* Daviey agrees that 'backports' for core server apps need to be supported on LTS
<lamont> "I want LTS and the latest $FOO" is a evidence of a conflicted mind.
<keescook> ScottK: right, would be nice to have a volatile or something similar.
* ScottK agrees.
<jdstrand> lamont: not when you can't backport security updates
<ScottK> jdstrand: Sure you can.  Just someone has to do them.
<jdstrand> ScottK: not with mysql developers
<nealmcb> 5 minutes to CC meeting....
<jdstrand> witout mysql developers
<soren> lamont: True that, but I consider it a perfectly valid use case to have LTS on one's servers and something slightly newer (Vista) on one's desktops.
* jdstrand hrmm
<ivoks> nealmcb: that's 18:00 utc
<jdstrand> s/witout/without/
<lamont> jdstrand: you can always backport security updates... the question is does that mean adding the fix as a patch in the old version, shoving the new version with all that risk and possibly new features back into the release, or some combination of the two....
<Daviey> lamont: conflicting how?  An admin worth their salt uses an LTS server version IMO - is it unreasonable for them to want the latest stable samba to be supported and backported?
<ScottK> It's a similar situation, I think, to the LTS kernel's problem with dealing with new hardware.
<soren> One of the major blockers of this problem is that we don't have anyone who is familiar enough with samba code and the protocols involved to identify the bug fixes and handle the updates properly.
<jdstrand> ScottK: they redesigned large protions of code in a *stable* release that cannot be backported.  Unfortunely those changes were incompatible with earlier versions
<jdstrand> in the stable release that is
<nealmcb> ivoks: man - I have really gotten that one confused - I guess by earlier conversation about another meeting - thanks
<ScottK> Right.  So if you backport once from the current release, you just keep backporting newer stuff as it comes out.
<jdstrand> lamont: while I agree with you in theory, that doesn't always work.  You end up with a 'wont fix' situation sometimes
<dendrobates> Sorry to interrupt this long thread, but I have to run, and I wanted to get a show of hands for all those coming to UDS.
* mathiaz waves
* nijaba waves
<popey> o/ :)
* ScottK says maybe.
* jdstrand raises his hand
* nealmcb probably
* Daviey sulks
<soren> o/
* Hobbsee belatedly leaves hand down too
<dendrobates> I'm told there will be punch and pie. :)
<soren> \o/
<jdstrand> mmmm... pie
<tepsipakki> o/
* ScottK holds out for alcohol.
<dendrobates> oh, I meant spiked punch.
<ivoks> o/
<ScottK> OK then.  That sounds good.
<dendrobates> I will buy a beer for any one in the server community that shows up.  :-)
<ivoks> uh :D
* soren makes a note of that
<dendrobates> That is over 21, that is.
* ScottK feels his motivation to attend rising.
* Hobbsee sees a sudden influx of 14 year olds joining hte server team
<nijaba> Shall we talk about next meeting date and time before parting ?
<mathiaz> [TOPIC]  Next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting date and time
<nealmcb> were we done?  any action items re samba?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: not really I think.
<ivoks> downgrad to universe :/
<mathiaz> nealmcb: I just wanted to raise the issue... There isn't a clear consensus about it.
<soren> :p
<nealmcb> lol
<nijaba> 22:00 UTC seemed to be convenient for most every other tuesday.  Is that ok for next week ?
<mathiaz> I think -backport can always be used...
<ScottK> nealmcb: mathiaz is going to fix it.
<ScottK> That was the action.
<mathiaz> The question is whether -updates should shipped the newest version of samba or not.
<soren> mathiaz: Well, yes, -backports can be used, but we still need to handle the issues via -updates as well.
<mathiaz> soren: yes.
<mathiaz> I've started to build 3.0.26 for dapper and it seems to work os far.
<ivoks> too bad samba team doesn't have stable releases :/
<nealmcb> if we can't resolve it now, I'm just wondering what a next step would be - connect with samba team?  write up a wiki page about the issue?  tell users to run the latest ubuntu non-lts on their file servers??
<mathiaz> I'll probably submit it to -backport.
<soren> nealmcb: There will be participation by the Samba team at FOSSCamp.
<nealmcb> and more testing can happen that way at least...
<nealmcb> soren: nice
<mathiaz> So what about the next meeting date and time ?
<mathiaz> Do we need another meeting next week before the release ?
<ivoks> 16th?
<nealmcb> I wish we could see the blueprints submitted for uds boston, but launchpad won't let non-drivers see them until approved...
<dendrobates> The server blueprints aren't done yet anyway.
<dendrobates> Working as fast as I can.
<nealmcb> :-)
<mathiaz> ivoks: yes. Tuesday 16th.
<nealmcb> 22:00 utc?
<mathiaz> The question is whether we need one or not ?
<ivoks> no has guts to say... :)
<mathiaz> There wasn't much to say for this meeting
<ivoks> it will be too late to change anything, right?
<mathiaz> (I added the two items before the meeting)
<soren> ivoks: It would have to be earth shatteringly important.
<mathiaz> and the discussion about samba and -updates is long-standing issue.
<ivoks> then, if nothing comes up, it's reasonable to not schedule it
<soren> mathiaz: UDS material for sure, yes
<mathiaz> soren: that could be covered in two weeks.
<mathiaz> soren: once release is done.
<ivoks> soren: it's more fosscamp question.. :/
<soren> mathiaz: Sorry, I mean that the samba discussion is UDS material.
<mathiaz> we'll probably be in the release iso testing.
<soren> mathiaz: Ah, yes, FOSSCamp.
<mathiaz> soren: yes. definetly.
<zul> is there any xen specs for uds?
<mathiaz> So I don't see a compeling reason to have a meeting next week.
* nealmcb nods
<mathiaz> Two weeks seems reasonable to me.
<nealmcb> what time?
<mathiaz> same time
<mathiaz> 15:00 UTC
<soren> I think that's a problem.
<ivoks> is that ok for us people?
<soren> There's openweek or something.
* ScottK think if we need to be talking about something next week there will be plenty of panic on #ubuntu-server about it directly.
<mathiaz> I'll get in touch with the fridge developper to get the meeting added to the fridge
<ivoks> ScottK: right :)
<mathiaz> ScottK: agreed
<mathiaz> soren: how would that be a problem ?
<mathiaz> soren: is #ubuntu-meeting reserved ?
<soren> mathiaz: Ah, is that in a different channel?
<soren> Probably is. Sorry. My mistake.
<mathiaz> soren: I don't know.
<nealmcb> I think so
<nealmcb> different channel
<mathiaz> ok. So next meeting in two weeks, same time, same place.
<ivoks> ubuntu-classroom
<soren> mathiaz: Yeah, #ubuntu-classroom
<mathiaz> Thanks all and happy RC/release iso testing ! :)
<ivoks> yay!
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:22.
<sommer> later all
* nealmcb waves
<nijaba> later...
<johnc4510> @schedule Phoenix
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Phoenix: 09 Oct 11:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 05:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 09:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 08:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 09:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 09:00: QA Team
<DoctorMO> I'll be back at 2pm for the meeting
<coolbhavi> has meeting started?
<juliux> coolbhavi, not yet
<johnc4510> 25 mins yet to go
<juliux> coolbhavi, 25min to go
<coolbhavi> OK
<Mamarok> @ schedule zurich
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 09 Oct 20:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 14:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 18:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 17:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 18:00: QA Team
<Darksun88> Hi all
<Darksun88> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 09 Oct 20:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 14:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 18:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 17:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 18:00: QA Team
<Hattory> Hi Darksun88 ;)
<Darksun88> :)
<mdke> evening all
<Darksun88> Hi Matt.
<RicardoPerez> good evening!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:kagou] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Oct 18:00 UTC: Community Council | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: CHiommunity Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team
<andrea-bs> hi all
<kagou> Hi
<Supremus> hi mdke
<coolbhavi> hello I am bhavani Shankar who has come here to the meeting as per the new member process
<Hattory> hi all
<popey> hi mdke
<totopalma> mdke, hi :)
<Seveas> kagou, don't mess with the topic please...
<mdke> seems we're a bit short of CC members so far. mako / MikeB, are you here?
<MikeB> yes
<kagou> Seveas, it's a mistake
<kagou> sorry
<elmo> sorry I'm late
<mayeco> deadwill
<mdke> ok, that's three. Missing mark, daniel, corey and possibly mako
<mdke> jerome may come too, I think
<juliux> hi all
<mayeco> hello
<mayeco> hey OgMaciel
<OgMaciel> howdy mayeco
<coolbhavi> hello I am bhavani Shankar studying BSEE in india and my ubuntu contributions are:
<elmo> I'll text daniel and mark
<mayeco> coolbhavi: in order please
<mdke> coolbhavi: please wait until later
<mdke> elmo: thanks
<coolbhavi> OK
<leftyfb> i'm here for the Ubuntu MA Team for approval consideration
<DPic> i am as well
<mayeco> let's make the approval in order ok?
<Seveas> leftyfb, you're up right after Jono (if he shows up)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Oct 18:00 UTC: Community Council | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team
<mayeco> deadwill, viridari, demrit, paulliu, etc....
<mdke> Seveas: I believe jono's item was discussed at the last meeting, from what I read in the logs; is there an outstanding issue on that, do you know?
* popey texted jono
<mdke> popey: thanks
<Seveas> mdke, I've missed the last meetings
<mdke> yeah, me too
<mako> yes, i'm here
<mdke> \o/
<leftyfb> hi mako  :)
<mako> i'm in another meeting actually :)
<mako> so a little distracted, but i'll do my best
<elmo> dholbach can't make it, sends his apologies
<mdke> ok, perhaps we should start, 4 is not bad
<MikeB> don't think we heard from Corey
<mdke> he said he would come but he can always join later
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Community CouncilCalendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team
<mdke> ah, rock
<sabdfl> evening all
<mako> sabdfl: greetings
<popey> reply from jono "can't attend, please defer to next meet"
<leftyfb> i'm trying to get in touch with my team leader (doctormo) to join as well
<Seveas> popey, thanks
<mdke> ok, off we go. Agenda is here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mdke> so we'll defer jono's item as requested, onto the Mass team
<mdke> leftyfb: would you like to introduce your team?
<sabdfl> hey Seveas :-)
<Seveas> hi sabdfl !
<leftyfb> sorry .. currently at work and apparently when I tell people i'm busy from 2-3, that means give me 2 URGENT projects to start ASAP
<juliux> hi sabdfl
<Seveas> I'm picking up my secretary duties again as of this meeting
<mdke> leftyfb: ok, well the wiki pages are very clear, let's pause for the council to read them
<sabdfl> welcome back!
<MikeB> Seveas: welcome back
<mdke> Seveas: great
<leftyfb> I am from the Massachussetts team. I'm sure you have all had some contact or heard of our team with the recent case badges project that Martin Owens (doctormo) spearheaded and I helped a bit.
<DPic> Well the Massachusetts Team has been holding regular meetings since we got started https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/Meetings
<leftyfb> We also have our first Installfest planned for this Saturday at MIT
<sabdfl> DoctorMO sent me some of those badges and they are awesome
<DoctorMO> hey all
<DPic> Hi
<sabdfl> the man himself :-)
<mdke> leftyfb: for my part I'm pretty impressed with the team's wiki pages, seem very organised and you have a good few events under your belt. Has jono reviewed your application?
<leftyfb> there he is :)
<DoctorMO> sorry for the delay, running late from Thai lunch
<andrea-bs> heya dfiloni2, Jak-o
<sabdfl> leftyfb, DoctorMO: i see you have both a mailing list and a dedicated forum. do you find much overlap? and if not, how do you coordinate across those?
<dfiloni2> Hi andrea-bs!
<dfiloni2> hello men
<DoctorMO> The mailing list is where we co-ordinate all out actions and notices of events; the forums are for helping users rather than organising events and funtion different needs
* nairov Cheers loudly for the MA team! 
<DoctorMO> function*
<DPic> The mailing list is for those more involved with the time. Right now it
* johnc4510 gives a big hand to MA team
<MikeB> what areas of MA are you active in?
<DPic> The Boston area but we have people who are in central MA who will hold meeting in Worcester to reach out to those not near Boston.
<DPic> meetings*
<mayeco> whois mayeco
<mayeco> ops...
<MikeB> DPic: excellent
<juliux> where some of your team at the boston summit this year?
<mdke> good stuff. It's definitely a +1 from me, assuming jono has reviewed the application and ok-ed it
<DoctorMO> juliux: the boston summit is yet to happen
<juliux> DoctorMO, ok i thought it is allready over;)
<mjg59> DoctorMO: No, the boston gnome summit was this weekend
<MikeB> +1, the great wiki
<mako> i showed up at the summit this weekend
<mako> and i participate in the team from time to time
<Seveas> mako, so you can't vote :)
<DoctorMO> mjg59: missed, I don't think anyone from our group knew
<mdke> DoctorMO: can you confirm that jono has ok-ed the application?
<DoctorMO> mako: apart from Mako it appears
<leftyfb> The developers summit is in a couple weeks which we will be attending
<DoctorMO> mdke: no, is he not available?
<DPic> I was the one who sent Jono the application
<sabdfl> +1 from me, it's clearly a very well-organised team that's aware of the social context within which they rock
<mako> it's an active and involved community
<mdke> DPic: ah, ok. he was ok with it?
<mako> and i'd recommend it, although i'm happy not voting sine i've been involved in the past
<Seveas> elmo, what's your vote?
<DPic> His exact words were, "Looks good. :)"
<elmo> +1
<mdke> DPic: good, thanks for confirming that
<Seveas> ok, 5 times +1
<Seveas> congratulations, Massachusetts!
<sabdfl> welcome aboard guys
<sabdfl> and congrats on your energy and quality of work so far
<Seveas> popey, you're up
<juliux> welcome massachusetts
<popey> hi
<leftyfb> :)
<DPic> Woohoo!
<maccam94> thank you!
<DPic> Thanks so much!
<DoctorMO> woot
<nealmcb> ahh - another part of the country changes color to APPROVED!
<sabdfl> holy crap that ROCKS!
<Seveas> nealmcb, yes, the US is taking ove Ubuntu :)
<DoctorMO> nealmcb: care to link?
* popey has some general comments to add, in addition to what's on the application page
<Mamarok> congrats Massachusetts from Switzerland too :)
<mdke> popey: go ahead
<sabdfl> (screencasts)
<popey> We get a lot of positive feedback in comments on the site, and I get quite a bit of personal email from people both asking technical questions, but also just saying "thanks". Notably I've had a few that have said they were concerned about running Ubuntu but after seeing the screecast their doubts were quashed. Which is a really nice feeling!
* Seveas  the screencasts team 
<nealmcb> it should happen soon at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/USTeams/TeamList
<popey> Having a policy of "eating our own dogfood" is important because it shows we _can_ produce quality videos (I hope) on Linux just like Windows and Mac people do with the aid of their wallets, and loss of freedom of course :).
<popey> Making the decision to make screencasts in HD720p was hard as it requires quite a bit of computing power, disk space and eats bandwidth every time we upload a video - and we do that in 6 formats!
<popey> We'd like to progress the spec of "Screencasts in Ubuntu" to the point where it's ubiquitous to just click an icon in an app and get a video showing you how to do what you want.
<popey> Further to that we'd like to make it _real_ easy to make and submit screencasts to that project. At the moment whilst there are easy to use apps like istanbul et al, there are still technical challenges that need ironing.
<popey> <EOF>
<leftyfb> I find those screencasts VERY helpful. We're actually going to be having them run in a playlist on a projector at our installfest this Saturday
<mdke> popey: do you have thoughts on how "screencasts in ubuntu" can relate and be integrated with documentation?
<Seveas> popey, whenever you are in NL and in need of beer, call me :)
<sabdfl> amazing - who will be in Boston to champion this? It's very classy thinking, but it would help if we made the whole team more aware of it
<popey> wow leftyfb, fantastic!
<popey> i will be in boston at UDS
<sabdfl> figure out how to integrate screencasts into the whole ubuntu experience
<Seveas> I'll be playing screencasts at the Ubuntu release party
<Seveas> in NL
<popey> yes, I would like to work on that sabdfl
<sabdfl> popey: will you be at UDS-Boston at the end of the month?
<popey> mdke: I just don't know, I guess some hooks which link to the local player to trigger a "how to" video
<popey> yes sabdfl
<DoctorMO> popey: do you have a link to your screencasts?
* Barty cheers for screencast team
<popey> DoctorMO: http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/
<mdke> popey: let's brainstorm about it sometime
<popey> or just google ubuntu screencasts - we take up the whole first page pretty much
<sabdfl> popey: have you had any conversations with the ubuntu marketing team, and canonical marketing, about the Month of Screencasts? I think we should push for radical awareness and publicity of this superb work
<popey> mdke: wilco
<popey> it was mentioned on the fridge
<popey> and they are syndicated on p.u.c
<popey> (there's one there right now at the top :) )
<popey> i have only recently started working with the marketing team and the fridge guys
<mako> yes, the screencasts are very exciting
<sabdfl> ok, will send a note to canonical marketing now. email addy?
<popey> mine? alanpope@ubuntu.com
<tonyyarusso> I had written on the -marketing ML recently about integrating various projects, including the screencasts, and popey has been most involved with keeping track of other teams and inserting info about the screencasts as appropriate of the projects I mentioned.
<popey> yeah, "screencasts" is a kinda highligh/trigger word for me
<popey> I home in on anyone who says it anywhere, in any medium :)
<mdke> popey: is there a good level of contribution from other members of the team, aside from yourself, nowadays?
<popey> mdke: making screencasts, not so much, translation and transcription, lots
<popey> we have some subtitled in like 6 languages now
<mako> popey: how many other people are producing screencasts?
<popey> I'm pretty much the only one who makes them regularly :S
<popey> we have had contributions for which I am majorly happy!
<sabdfl> how straightforward is the process of making one?
<popey> i think at least in part one of the problems is the high standards I like to think i have
<OgMaciel> popey: any integration with other doc teams to create i18n versions?
<sabdfl> is the a screencast-on-making-screencasts?
<popey> sabdfl: not as easy as it could be
<popey> hehehe
<maccam94> popey: are there clear guidelines for creating a screencast? I'd be interested in contributing...
<popey> I am so glad you asked that sabdfl
<popey> sabdfl: no, but I have it on my to-do to make one
<mdke> sabdfl: see their roadmap ;)
<mako> popey: does that mean other people submit them that you do not publish?
<popey> maccam94: join the mailing list or drop me a mail any time
<popey> mako: not really, maybe people are put off
<sabdfl> popey: if you can get that one up in the next few days, we can call attention to it, as well as the translation capability (do we use gettext? rosetta?) so that you get contributions for the Month
<mako> so i love your work
<popey> translation is tricky
<popey> i would love to get a system to be able to import subtitles into lp
<juliux> popey, you should be the speaker of an ubuntu news broadcast
<popey> who can I speak to to do that?
<mako> but a team with one person doing the core work seems strange :)
<mdke> the team is really well organised, and doing great work now for several months. my only concern is that popey is doing all the work, but that doesn't stand in the way of approval for me
<mdke> popey: what does approval mean for the team?
<mako> mdke: well, a team means multiple people
<popey> mdke: recognition
<tonyyarusso> popey: Is there a "how to make screencasts" session for UOW scheduled yet?
<mdke> popey: really? there is no formalprocess for approving non-locoteams
<mdke> mako: true...
<mako> so i'm happy to recognize popey's work, but good work, even great work, doesn't make it a team
<popey> tonyyarusso: jono asked me, and I did do one last UOW
<mako> right
<popey> but it wasn't that successful
<sabdfl> errr, we are the formal process :-)
<Seveas> popey, re: subtitles: ask in #launchpad :)
<coolbhavi> excuse me please gentlemen... Its already october 10 here and I have not slept for 21 hrs on a trot... Wanted to know when will I have my turn so that I can get some sleep!!.. Sorry to disturb you.... Please excuse me....
<popey> thanks Seveas, will do
<mdke> sabdfl: well, I mean there is no wiki page detailing requirements as there is for locoteams; and there are no advantages of being approved, as there are for locoteams
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me for the team, even though it still needs broadening out as a team
<popey> I already have canonical hosting
<popey> so it's not like I'll get that :)
<mdke> but we approved the mythtv team, and ubuntu-women I guess
<sabdfl> popey has done lots of teamwork and i have every confidence he will grow the team well
<popey> sabdfl: willing to take input from all on how to achive that
<mdke> I think the team is in a good position to grow too
<popey> i don't mind approval being deferred until we grow
<popey> gives us something to aim for :)
<DoctorMO> Can I just quickly ask the CC where approved teams are listed and where the contact is mentioned? it should be me but it may be yuiry who set up our teams resources
<Seveas> DoctorMO, wiki.ubunut.com/LoCoTeamList
* popey taps the mic
<Seveas> any other questions or is it time for votes?
<Seveas> I'd say voting time. mdke/mako/elmo/mikeb?
<MikeB> none here
<mako> i'm going to abstain. i like popey's work but i don't like creating official structures before the team and if it's only one person making screencasts, i have a hard time calling it a team
<popey> I totally understand
<mdke> I'm slightly uncomfortable about approving without a process, because i know a lot of other teams around the community that would probably apply too
<elmo> I feel a bit weird about +1-ing a one man team too, but I mean no disrespect to popey or the work he's done
<mdke> but definitely +1 about popey's work and the team structures
<popey> well technically it's not one man
<popey> we have one person doing transcription
<MikeB> +1 here, because I think a offical team may encourge more people to participate
<popey> people from various locos doing translation
<popey> but yes, I actually make most of the screencasts, yes
<popey> thin line
<sabdfl> i think mikeb has a good point
<sabdfl> making the team official may well encourage people to step up
<OgMaciel> popey: maybe you didn't see this, but... any integration with other doc teams to create i18n versions?
<popey> I'll work on the "how to screencast, screencast" as a priority
<Barty> Can screencasts be recorded as a team? A does the video, B gives voice-over?
<popey> i didn't OgMaciel
<OgMaciel> no worries popey
<popey> OgMaciel:  I don't know that subject well, but contact me after, please
<popey> Barty: in theory yes
<OgMaciel> k
<Barty> k
<popey> Barty: better if one person plans / scripts, then another does video + audio
* mdke is still unsure of what "official" means here
<popey> then another re-encodes and uploads perhaps
<sabdfl> given that we have a month-of-screencasts coming up
<popey> distribute the loads somewhat
<popey> sabdfl: it's already running
<sabdfl> is it not worth trying to accelerate this?
<popey> sabdfl: and overrunning
<sabdfl> oh, i misread the "9 days"
<sabdfl> i thought it meant it would start in 9 days :-)
<popey> thats the countdown to gutsy :)
<sabdfl> right
<popey> we have already made 16 of them
<sabdfl> well, nonetheless
<MrEgg964> I'm sure having a plan / script laid out would help and encourage making screencast
<popey> but as we are a small team, the workload is high
<popey> so we have overrun
<popey> MrEgg964: agree
<sabdfl> it seems to me no hassle for the CC to approve the team, but i suppose we could also just say "We all think Popey's work rocks and want to encourage folks to join him and do more of this"
<mdke> I'll definitely support that :)
<popey> fine by me :)
<Seveas> sabdfl, I think promotion like that (on your blog for instance) will have more effect than making the team official, which will be noticed by much less people many of whom already know about the screencasts
<popey> sorry to have taken up so much time
<mdke> popey: you could get jono to blog about it too :D
<sabdfl> ok
<mako> right, i'd prefer the latter
<sabdfl> i'll blog
<mako> great :)
<popey> only if I add the magic words "community" and "jokosher"
<mako> popey: awesome dude :)
<popey> yay
<sabdfl> other's welcome to blog too!
<mako> look forward to seeing you at the summit
<Seveas> Two +1's out of 5 members do not make quorom, so let's defer for now and move on to members
<popey> ditto!
<mdke> thanks popey for everything you've done
<popey> thanks guys! :)
<popey> np
<sabdfl> and then some
<Seveas> popey, please keep rocking!
<popey> \m/
<mdke> not only in that team but generally as well
<MrEgg964> Would it be possible to have screencast scenarios for which we could all contribute, add our thoughts etc., then having it reviewed and approved by acknowlegded members ?
<Seveas> totopalma, you're the first in the list of members who's actually here
<totopalma> ok :)
<Seveas> please paste your introduction
<totopalma> Hello,
<totopalma> Iam Salvatore Palma (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PalmaSalvatore / https://launchpad.net/~palma-salvatore).
<totopalma> I am 28 years old and i live in the south Italy.
<totopalma> I started using Ubuntu with Breezy, and now i am using gutsy.
<totopalma>  I am an active member of  the Ubuntu Italian Forum, where I try to help new users to solve their issues since december 2006, getting moderator status after 9 months of activity
<totopalma> http://forum.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?action=profile;u=4870
<totopalma> After a year, I obtained  Ubuntu Italian membership.  I'm working with Ubuntu-it Promotion Group and I coordinate two other projects as well, they are:  Stickers Project:
<totopalma> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-it/+spec/stickers-ubuntu
<totopalma> Stickers project goal is the distribution in Italy of system76's stickers. I'm coordinating the project, you can even see my name in system76 web page.
<totopalma> These are the guidelines that we are following: http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/GruppoPromozione/StickerUbuntu/LineeGuida
<totopalma> but they are in Italian! :)
<totopalma> and the  Cd Ubuntu Project:
<totopalma> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-it/+spec/cd-ubuntu
<totopalma> Actually lots of people in Italy don't have a DSL Internet connection, they are still stuck on dial-up and they can't download Ubuntu's ISOs. There's shipit service, but sometimes CDs are not available or arrive a little late. In this way we can distribute CDs locally in shorter time.
<totopalma> People send us the blank CD and we burn one of Ubuntu's ISO on it, the user could choose wich version we should burn.
<totopalma> The main things this group takes care of is promoting ubuntu in the whole italy trying to fix the bug #1 every single minute, hour or day.
<totopalma> In the near future I would like to join the ranks of the Ubuntu Italian Translators Team trying to improve the overall quality
<totopalma>  of italian translations
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<mdke> whoosh
<Seveas> long intro :)
<totopalma> yes :)
<mdke> I'd quite like to support totopalma, I know him well from the italian community, he's doing an incredible job as organiser of various initiatives, such as distributing stickers and cds, he is always very willing to listen and help, and is generally a fabulous asset to the community
<DktrKranz> Salvatore is a very active person: he is moderator of Italian forum and he's involved in several projects related to marketing issues. He puts a lot of efforts to spread Ubuntu in Italy, and his work begins to pay. Nice work, Tot!
<totopalma> mdke, tanks :)
<Seveas> mdke, wow, totopalma gets CC members to cheer :)
<totopalma> DktrKranz, :)
<bluekuja> I would like to support Salvatore as well, he's doing a great work for the italian community
<mdke> Seveas: wholeheartedly
<sabdfl> mdz: are we going to have a collision of TB and CC here in 8 minutes?
<mdz_> sabdfl: my calendar says TB
<sabdfl> +1 to salvatore from me
<mjg59> mdz_: Fridge doesn't have TB, for some reason
<Daviey> @schedule london
<MikeB> +1 for me
<Seveas> 3 done, 2 to go
<Seveas> going well totopalma!
<elmo> +1
<Seveas> mako, ?
<Seveas> no mako, it seems
<Seveas> well, 4 out of 5 is quorum as well, so congrats and welcome aboard totopalma!
<mdke> good job dude, keep doing what you're doing
<DktrKranz> totopalma, \o/
<bluekuja> congrats totopalma"
<totopalma> thanks at all :)
<bluekuja> :)
<Seveas> mako, if you read back later and have objections, please shout
<DktrKranz> totopalma, a pizza for the CC!
<bluekuja> lol
<totopalma> DktrKranz, lol
<Seveas> Hattory, you're up next, let's keep this meeting moving!
<Hattory> o/
<Hattory> Hello, my name is Paolo Naldini, I'm 16 and I live in Italy ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NaldiniPaolo ).
<Hattory> I joined Ubuntu on Februray 2006 with Ubuntu 5.10 "The Breezy Badger" where I began to give support to the Italian Forum of Ubuntu. After that I tried to help in other support channels too.
<twilight> ops, i'm late...my support is not needed... but, totopalma, congratulation :)
<Hattory> After about a year, I obtained Ubuntu Italian membership.
<Hattory> At the moment I focus on the translations in Rosetta and on the Italian wiki. The universe of "packaging" has always fascinated me but I don't have enough time to make all these things at the same time (I also attend high school :D ), let's see what will be in the future.
<Hattory> In my wiki home page it's possible to see some of my translations made for Italian wiki, you will be able to find other translations in my launchpad account (https://launchpad.net/~hattory/).
<Hattory> I'm waiting to join in the Ubuntu Italian Translator.
<Hattory> I joined Ubuntu Italian Promoters Team too, where I'm working to the Stickers Project and the Cd Ubuntu Project.
<Hattory> ;)
<Mamarok> auguri totopalma :)
<DktrKranz> Paolo is young, but he's pretty involved in Ubuntu. He recently started to poke with answer tracker and Rosetta in Launchpad, but his interests do not stop here: he provided a lot of help on the Italian forum and IRC chans. A very talented guy.
<mdke> sabdfl, mdz, mjg59 : can the two meetings run simultaneously? We could carry on dealing with membership applications maybe
<mako> Seveas: sorry, got called away.. will read the backlog
<sabdfl> mdke: not easy
<Seveas> mako, np, you said you were in another meeting :)
<sabdfl> TB agenda is... short?
<mdke> I'll support Hattory too, I've seen him doing lots of good work in the community, although I don't know him as well as totopalma, he gets my support
<mdke> good wiki page too
<Hattory> thanks mdke ;)
<bluekuja> Paolo is an active member of the italian community and he's doing a great work for the italian wiki translating all the MOTU section. So I fully support his application! Rock on Paolo!
<Seveas> sabdfl, tb agenda is 'Other business' and 'update agenda' -- possibly very short :)
<sabdfl> i saw
<Hattory> bluekuja, thanks bro :D
<mdz_> sabdfl: I think the only issue for TB is delegation of MOTU membership
<sabdfl> i think there's a discussion we could have about letting MC approve new MOTU's directly
<sabdfl> and also about having TB officially nominate new MC members
<bluekuja> Hattory: :)
<sabdfl> (MC == MOTU Council)
<sabdfl> those are sort of CC-ish anyhow
<Seveas> indeed
<sabdfl> and should be short
<sabdfl> since TB is mainly focused on the release
<Seveas> but can we please finish Hattory's application first - I'm seeing many cheers and good things
<Hattory> :D
<MikeB> +1 here, great work shown on wiki and launchpad
<elmo> +1
<sabdfl> Hattory: the LP picture is a bit thin
<sabdfl> unless i'm misreading it, it looks like just 57 translations?
<Hattory> bit thin??
<Hattory> a ok
<Hattory> :D
<elmo> sabdfl: karma shows a fair bit of translation approval and answer tracker stuff
<Seveas> Bug Management  	17
<Seveas> Translations in Rosetta 	1559
<Seveas> Answer Tracker 	1107
<mdke> good non-launchpad work too, which counts double!
<Hattory> Not enough?
<Seveas> sabdfl, mako: +1/-1?
<sabdfl> -1 from me
<sabdfl> i would like to see a more sustained picture
<bluekuja> lol
<sabdfl> but i know i'm not factoring in other contributions like forums, mailing lists, advocacy
<sabdfl> if other folks feel he's over that hump, go ahead and +1
<bluekuja> sabdfl: of course...not the lp picture he pushed on his profile...
<Hattory> LOOOL
<sabdfl> what's the story on TB now?
<sabdfl> mdz?
<mdz_> CC finished?
<Seveas> sabdfl, how are you judging sustained? LP karma summary doesn't really go back beyond a few dozen of the 2683 items so it's hard to track that
<sabdfl> no, i thought we could have those 2 TB conversations, then come back to TB
<sabdfl> karma value != # contributions
<mdke> we certainly shouldn't use LP karma as the only basis to judge contribution
<mdz_> I think it would be more sensible to finish this meeting and then do TB
<mdz_> or reschedule TB for another time
<sabdfl> mdz, we have a lot of members to process
<mdz_> otherwise, the other CC members will have to wait around during TB
<mdz_> (and the members, for that matter)
<sabdfl> we SHOULD have the regional member vetting teams in place by now hint hint ;-)
<Daviey> or make membership harder :)
<sabdfl> since we have said the CC will move away from vetting members, i think we should act on that
<mdz_> I'm happy to reschedule, the agenda is not urgent
<sabdfl> i'd like to get the MC things settled, if we have TB and CC here, if it is not quickly consensual we can defer
<RicardoPerez> Sorry for the noise, but... is it necessary for the Ubuntu Member application for me to stay in the meeting? Sorry, but I must go in a few minutes, and I would like to know if that can be a problem... Thank you!
<bluekuja> RicardoPerez: yeah, you need to be in the channel, and present yourself
<mdz_> mjg59: are you still here?
<RicardoPerez> bluekuja: ok, thanks!
<Seveas> RicardoPerez, you should be there when your applications is up for discussion but you don't need to be there before that moment
<mdke> Hattory: we'll just wait for mako to see your application, and discuss these other issues in the meantime, don't despair
<Hattory> ok i'm always here....
<mdke> thanks
<RicardoPerez> Seveas, thanks a lot
<Seveas> mdz_, sabdfl: we could do the impromptu TB/CC meeting about the MC now since mako is still away
<mdz_> sabdfl: we're missing 2/4 and for a delegation matter I think we should have a full complement
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> defer TB
<mjg59> mdz_: Yes
<sabdfl> let's continue with members
<mjg59> (sorry)
<sabdfl> err...
<sabdfl> is that 3/4?
<mdz_> it is
<mdz_> Scott is on a train
<sabdfl> mjg59: are you happy for TB to nominate MOTU Council folks, rather than just me? confirmation / selection-from-shortlist vote would be whole ubuntu-deve (MOTU and core)
<mjg59> I'm happy with that
<sabdfl> cool
<sabdfl> any comments from community folks on this subject?
<nealmcb> Do you have a link to the agenda or topic you're discussing?
<mdke> no problem from me
<Seveas> sabdfl, +1
<sabdfl> ok, let's mail keybuk, and if he's +1, let's discuss the suggestions dholbach has made for new MC folks
<sabdfl> next, TB, are you happy for MC to approve new MOTU members directly, notifying TB, rather than suggesting them for TB's approval?
<mdz_> I believe I suggested it, so yes
<sabdfl> i'm +1, I think the MC are doing a super job
<nealmcb> It seems that two meetings this morning have run into scheduling problems and some frustrations because of some problems with the meeting scheduling system - hopefully those can be fixed soon :-)
<mjg59> +1 here too - I've no reason to doubt their judgement so far
<sabdfl> ok. we will have complete visibility on everything they do via LP in any event
<mdke> that involves granting membership too doesn't it?
<mdz_> we've had no substantial issues with their selections and they've been rigorous in recording their rationale
<sabdfl> mdke: yes, good point, any comments from CC?
<mdke> I'm happy with whatever the TB decides, seems clear that the MC are doing a great job
<sabdfl> MikeB, elmo, mako et al?
<elmo> fine by me
<MikeB> fine here
<Seveas> (mako still afm)
<sabdfl> ok, i'll mail lists giving keybuk and mako a chance to object, but i think it's clear we're all generally in favour
<Seveas> so unanymous +1 of all active CC/TB members
<RicardoPerez> sorry, I must to go. see you!
<Seveas> bye RicardoPerez !
<sabdfl> congrats to dholbach and the MC for doing such a great job
<sabdfl> thanks TB
<sabdfl> any other TB business?
<bluekuja> sabdfl: new MC members vote is scheduled for?
<sabdfl> bluekuja: no schedule but likely soon, we have some good candidates
<sabdfl> TB is discussing
<bluekuja> sabdfl: really nice to hear, thanks
<sabdfl> ok, thanks TB, mdke take it away
* mdke passes on to Seveas 
<sabdfl> :-)
* Seveas passes on to kagou :)
<Seveas> you're up!
<kagou> Seveas, ok let's go
<kagou> Hi, my name is Patrice Vetsel, i'm french, i'm 36 years old. I'm using Linux since 1993. I discovered no-name-yet (thanks to seb128) and since this great day, i'm completely ubuntu addicted
<kagou> I'm doing my best helping people (irc/forums/tutorials), triaging bugs and i'm trying to do more and more patches or packages upgrades (playing with ppa)
<kagou> At this time i'm writing a dozen articles for a special edition (gutsy) of a french magazine.
<bluekuja> Seveas: sorry, but what's the final decision for Hattory's application?
<Hattory> ehm....
<Seveas> I've seen Patrice since forever
<Seveas> bluekuja, Hattory: no decision yet, with the -1 from sabdfl we need a vote from mako for quorum
<Hattory> ah, ok no problem......
<Hattory> ;)
<bluekuja> Seveas: thanks, we have to wait mako then
<bluekuja> thought it got deferred
<bluekuja> kagou: do you have a wiki/LP page to show up to the CC?
<mdke> kagou: what are your most active activities at the moment?
<sabdfl> lots of folks saying patrice has been very active for a long time
<kagou> indeed
* mako is back
<kagou> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VetselPatrice https://edge.launchpad.net/~vetsel-patrice
<bluekuja> wb mako
<bluekuja> kagou: sorry for bothering, but that's required for your presentation :)
<kagou> mdke, my top priority is finishing articles
<seb128> I confirm that kagou is around for quite some time now and an useful community member
<sabdfl> lots of bugs associated with kagou too
<mdke> bluekuja: it's ok, we have it on the agenda
<sabdfl> +1 from me based on support from longstanding ubuntu stalwarts
<bluekuja> mdke: oh sorry then :)
<mdke> yes, impressive array of comments from key members
<kagou> mdke, i'm very honoured by them
<mako> [CATCHING UP]  +1 on totopalma, nice work! :)
<kagou> and thanks seb128  :)
<mdke> kagou: what sort of articles?
<totopalma> mako, thanks :)
<seb128> kagou: you're welcome ;)
<kagou> i'm talking about, what an user can do after gutsy installed (user management, sharing informations/printers/where to find informations/help )how to contribute
<elmo> +1
<mdke> kagou: is that for the ubuntu-fr site or elsewhere
<MikeB> +1 for kagou,
<kagou> mdke, it's for http://www.ed-diamond.com/
<kagou> Linux Pratique HS  Gutsy
<mdke> ah, nice
<mdke> good work; +1 from me for contribution over a long period
<sabdfl> i think that's the ticket?
<mdke> yep, well done kagou
<Seveas> yup, apart from reading-back-mako :)
<kagou> Great ! Thank you all :)
<Seveas> well done, welcome aboard!
<bluekuja> kagou: welcome!
<Seveas> OgMaciel, you're next
<OgMaciel> Seveas: k
<OgMaciel> My name is Og Maciel, born in Brazil but living in the United States since 1991. Graduated from Pace University with a BS in Biochemistry in 1997. Married since 2000, father of a 5 1/2-year-old and a 8-month daughters.
<OgMaciel> After a very successful 18 months as the leader for the Ubuntu Brazilian Portuguese Translators Team, I decided to step down so someone else could have a chance to perform this task. I also decided to dedicate whatever time I had free to translate directly with the GNOME, XFCE, and KDE upstream teams.
<OgMaciel> Recently became a GNOME Foundation member, leader for the XFCE Brazilian Portuguese Translators Team, helped release a 100% translated GNOME Desktop for the last two release cycles, became a developer for Foresight Linux and saw my free time cut down dramatically due to the events already mentioned. :)
<OgMaciel> basically, I'm here to renew
<Seveas> OgMaciel, you're ubuntu member already :)
<OgMaciel> :)
<mdke> I find it extraordinary that OgMaciel isn't already a member; negligence somewhere
<OgMaciel> basically, I'm here to renew
<OgMaciel> sorry for the confusion
<mdke> ah. You don't need to; you can renew yourself
<Seveas> OgMaciel, ah, there's no need to come to a meeting for that
<bluekuja> mdke: for membership renew, should a member come to a CC meeting again or just renew by LP?
<OgMaciel> mdke: I figured I'd let you guys decide it  ;)
<bluekuja> mdke: oh ok,  answered already :)
<mdke> OgMaciel: definitely +1 from me then
<Mamarok> brb
<MikeB> maybe we should put a note about renewals on top of the CC agenda:)
<Seveas> MikeB, +1
<bluekuja> MikeB: yeah, thanks
<OgMaciel> mdke: thanks!
<mdke> MikeB: from what I understand, he *wants* us to consider his renewal for him
<mdke> I can appreciate that
<OgMaciel> mdke: yes
<mdke> we have a lot of renewals from people who aren't contributing any more, and OgMaciel is more than worth it for me
* OgMaciel strongly believes in meritocracy(sp)
<mako> FTR, i'm +1/happy with the MC proposal
<MikeB> +1 here, Og has done and is doing great work for Ubuntu
<bluekuja> nice to have you around OgMaciel
<OgMaciel> thanks MikeB
<OgMaciel> bluekuja: :)
<elmo> mdke: (we do?)
<juliux> OgMaciel, i like your way to go again to the cc
<sabdfl> nice to have you around again OgMaciel, please definitely renew yourself!
<elmo> mdke: (renewals from people who aren't contributing)
<sabdfl> thanks mako
<OgMaciel> thank you sabdfl
<elmo> +1 for OgMagciel's renewal
<mdke> elmo: I see em sometimes when I don't have enough other email to read
<mdke> elmo: perhaps "a lot" is an exaggeration though
<mdke> should have said "plenty"
* mako is +1 for kagou
<Seveas> mdke, can't disagree with that :)
<Seveas> (I have killer lag btw)
<kagou> thanks mako :)
<mako> +1 from me for og, very suprising it hasn't happened yet
* mako is caught up now
<mako> i'm talking to Hattory in a query, ATM
<mdke> ah, thanks
<Seveas> ok
<mako> i'll get back on that in a second
<OgMaciel> well, I lost a good friend from the GNOME community yesterday and for what is worth, I dedicate my renewal to Raphael Higino
<Seveas> thanks for the heads up
<OgMaciel> thank you all
<effie_jayx> OgMaciel,  cheers dude...
<mdke> OgMaciel: sorry to read about that
<OgMaciel> cheer effie_jayx  :)
<OgMaciel> thanks mdke :/
<mayeco> nice OgMaciel!!
<OgMaciel> thanks mayeco
<Seveas> OgMaciel, good job, good luck in the coming years with Ubuntu~
<Seveas> DPic, you're up
<OgMaciel> thanks Seveas! Hope to see you soon
<DPic> Hello! My name is Danny Piccirillo https://launchpad.net/~danny.piccirillo https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Dpic I am 16 years old and a proud member of the Ubuntu-MA LoCo Team which just got approved :)
* OgMaciel goes back to his world of Python and Ajax
<DPic> I started using linux with Ubuntu 6.10 Edgy Eft and i have been more and more involved ever since. I have been most involved with wiki work. I did a big portion of the work on the Ubuntu-MA LoCo Team Wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam including restructuring the entire wiki to make it more efficient for new visitors not familiar with the group. This took some planning out and a lot of time.
<DPic> I created the Exchange Project https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/Projects/Exchange which hasn't gotten started up yet but aims to be a service we provide to take in computers for people to install Ubuntu on and then return them.
<DPic> The Donation page i created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/Donate serves to take in donations of money which we can spend for projects or events or hardware which we can give away to schools and libraries with ubuntu installed.
<DPic> Other wiki contributions to the team i have made are still being worked on but i do hope to expand my wiki contributions to outside of my Loco team as well. Outside of the team i contribute simply by advocating Ubuntu wherever i can. I have even gotten the Technology Department Head at my school to provide me with a brand new iMac (right out of the box) to install Ubuntu on and collect feedback from students. :)
<mdke> nice wiki page DPic. How long would you say you have been involved in contributing?
<DPic> Well probably only a month or so after trying Ubuntu for my first time which is around one year ago
<mako__> soryr about that
<sabdfl> DPic:  you mean you've been contributing for 11 months, or 1 month?
<mdke> would anyone who has worked with DPic like to big him up?
<DPic> 11
<DPic> leftyb, DoctorMO?
<sabdfl> DPic: would you say most of your contribution has been in the form of advocacy, rather than documentation, translations, code etc?
<DPic> Yes
<sabdfl> can you point to specific outcomes from that advocacy?
<DPic> I do a lot of advocacy. I'm an activist at heart and an environmentalist too!
<sabdfl> both good things in an ubuntero :-)
<leftyfb> DPic has done a ton of work with our wiki and made a lot of effort to organize our group based on that
<DPic> Well like i mentioned i have gotten Ubuntu on one computer at my school so far. With the help of the Ubuntu-MA team i think we can advocate to schools, or even entire districts
<DPic> At our last meeting we brought up going to elementary schools first
<leftyfb> sorry, I was off troubleshooting power supplies at work :)  (nobody makes then like they used to)
<DPic> Also, possibly coordinating a small team to show off Ubuntu to schools and let them try it out for themself
<coolbhavi> sorry for disturbing you gentlemen... hi i am bhavani shankar studying BSEE in india (https://launchpad.net/~bhavi) I am currently the head of the bmslug of our college and presently I am doing work on ubuntu media center edition btw hanging round in the answer tracker helping out newbies.. and just now started doing with translations... I am the head of bangalore ubuntu user group.. Have discussed with the team members about kannada localisation
<coolbhavi> and will set up a irc channel and mailing list soon as  possible since i m busy with my academics going side by side... I am also the driver of indubuntu project But which i have defered due to lack of support! So I started working on ubuntu media center edition now sir... btw I am doing research on processor design and comp security sir..Here goes the synopsis sir..I am currently doing research  in processor design trying to find a relationship b
<coolbhavi> etween number of cores feasible and transistor integration levels... power in a processor is given by dynamic capacitance(to maintain IPC efficiency)*voltage squared of the transistor i/o buffers*switching frequency of transistors and true performance of a processor is given by frequency of the processor*instructions per clock cycle.. Now I over clocked my Pentium D processor on 945G chip set( Intel doesn't provide OC bios, So I OC using Integrato
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Seveas]  by ChanServ
<mayeco> woow
<leftyfb> very rude
<Seveas> quite
<ajmitch> full dump of the wiki page?
<bluekuja> ajmitch: yeah, seems so..
<jpatrick> back on topic...
<Seveas> CC members, you're all awfully quiet
<mdke> leftyfb / DoctorMO : any comments on DPic's contributions?
<mdke> ah, missed yours leftyfb, sorry
<sabdfl> DPic: good work so far, but i think you should keep it up, build more of a track record, then come back
<mdke> I'd be ok with giving my +1 based on the work towards the team wiki pages, which are really good
<sabdfl> ok, how many folks in the queue?
<Seveas> 4
<sabdfl> they really are very good wiki pages
<DPic> Thanks :)
<sabdfl> but i feel that's a relatively recent burst, if that's not the case, shout DoctorMO or leftyfb
<sabdfl> welcome back coolbhavi, we'll come to you shortly
<leftyfb> I think DoctorMO is AFK. DPic has done a lot of work on our wiki and helping our team keep organized within it's guidelines. This includes submission to getting our team approved and making sure and helping out with the requirements for the approval
<DPic> sabdfl is there anything specific you think i should work on more?
<leftyfb> DPic has been with the team longer than I have (i joined in April) so i'm not sure how long he's been contributing to be honest.
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-10
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<kraut> moin
<popey> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<popey> yesterdays meeting log is blank
<popey> how odd
<popey> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2007-10-09.html
<flint_> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 10 Oct 12:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00: QA Team | 23 Oct 15:00: Server Team
<flint_> @schedule new york
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 23 Oct 11:00: Server Team
<flint_> good morning matt
<forumsmatthew> time
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Forum Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Oct 15:00 UTC: Server Team
<MikeB> morning all
<forumsmatthew> Hi MikeB
<forumsmatthew> are we alone??
<MikeB> heard from jdong and vorain, that they could not make it, but not from UG and Kiwi
<forumsmatthew> I know that u-g's new job is keeping him pretty busy during the adjustment
<forumsmatthew> let's give the two of them a few minutes, anyway
<MikeB> ok
<forumsmatthew> it's an extremely light agenda...
<forumsmatthew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<forumsmatthew> as in, empty
<MikeB> beamerboy may have put something in the forums
<forumsmatthew> hmm. nothing here: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=294
<forumsmatthew> I'll look around
<forumsmatthew> I didn't find anything
<forumsmatthew> I did answer an unanswered post in the res center, though
<MikeB> hmmm
<MikeB> does anyone have anything for the forums council
<forumsmatthew> lol, this will be a short meeting
<forumsmatthew> thanks for the conky update--that was cool
<MikeB> no problem
<MikeB> there are some new wireless variables in conky 1.4.7, you should look at
<forumsmatthew> I saw those the other day...is that the version that is in Gutsy, or will I need to download and compile them in like in Feisty
<forumsmatthew> I haven't done it, but I've been reading
<MikeB> that is in Gutsy, but I have been able to easily backport the deb into Gutsy
<forumsmatthew> cool...time to play
<MikeB> one thing I want to add to the agenda next time is blackmail instead of following proper resolution procedures
<forumsmatthew> +1
<forumsmatthew> I would like us all to discuss that together
<MikeB> well I'm going to head out then.
<forumsmatthew> as well as creating, or at least discussing, a policy for security tools that can be used as cracking devices...and whether they should be posted in howtos
<MikeB> good idea
<forumsmatthew> sounds good. we have our thoughts in the log
<forumsmatthew> :)
<forumsmatthew> Have a great day
<MikeB> thanks
<Knightlust> men, join #ubuntu-meeting.. forum council meeting
<Knightlust> sorry... wrong window
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Oct 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: QA Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Oct 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<Knightlust> hello QAs!
* pedro_ waves
<stgraber> hey
<highvoltage> hey stgraber
* heno waves
<liw> I'm late again for the meeting, sorry
<heno> short agenda today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
<heno> hi cjwatson
<bdmurray> Thinking about it some more I'm indifferent about buglords vs bugcontrol
<liw> I prefer bugcontrol, but I don't care strongly in any direction
<heno> I think buglords will annoy me after a while
<heno> I'd prefer bug-control
<Knightlust> +1 for bugcontrol for me
<stgraber> +1 for bugcontrol too
<heno> so that's +3 and 2 for +0
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<elisee> .
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Oct 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<sbalneav> Present
<LaserJock> here
* stgraber too
* ogra waves
<ogra> hey there
<LaserJock> is RichEd not here?
<ogra> not much to talk about today, RC is looking good apparently (even though i still didnt manage to get one install finished here today)
<ogra> rich is traveling
<ogra> he's in georgia at a conference
<ogra> so
<ogra> last deadline was RC freeze ...
<ogra> seems we matched that with most of the stuff
<ogra> all three RC bugs we had are fixed
<LaserJock> great
<ogra> next deadline on the list is RC indeed
<ogra> we need as much iso testing as we can get (as usual)
<ogra> so please TEST TEST TEST !
<LaserJock> CD sizes seem to be good
<stgraber> Has anyone tested a server install on real HW
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> even DVD is fine
<LaserJock> ogra: really??
<stgraber> and checked that local device and sound work as expected ?
<ogra> stgraber, my external DVD reader broke today
<stgraber> ogra: :(
<ogra> i'm working on having something in place by tomorrow morning
<ogra> so far i have one issue i'd like to fix in ltsp
<LaserJock> ogra: how did you shrink the DVDs?
<ogra> dropping the -debug kernels :)
<stgraber> I'm now back at home so I'll have a result on real HW in an hour or two
<ogra> sbalneav, sees some intel cards dont like to work in 32bit depth, how about just making X_COLOR_DEPTH defaulting to 24bit ?
<LaserJock> ogra: ahh, interesting
<sbalneav> I'm happy with that.
<ogra> s/sees/seems/
<ogra> ok, i'll try to get that in before final
<sbalneav> Where are the images?  I'll dl and test tonight?
<ogra> cards use 24 internally anyway
<LaserJock> it looks to me like ppc Desktop CD is the only oversized disk
<SpearOfLugh> geia
<ogra> heh, i didnt even look at ppc
<ogra> easy to drop something there before final
<LaserJock> PPC Classroom Server is fine
<LaserJock> but desktop is 711MB
<ogra> sbalneav, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/ as usual
<ogra> ah, thats nothing
<ogra> i'll look at it tomorrow
<LaserJock> yeah, no biggie, but if it's at trivial thing to have the ports be burnable it's probably worth it
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> just a matter of dropping something before the final build :)
<sbalneav> DL'ing now
<ogra> so, thats all from my side for now
<ogra> we're on the way :)
<ogra> any questions ?
<sbalneav> I have two items
<ogra> tell us
<sbalneav> 1) I'd like to thank all of LaserJocks' hard work for helping me get the doco done.
<ogra> ++
<stgraber> +1
<sbalneav> I think the handbook is the best we've ever had it.
<sbalneav> 2) I bought a cottage :)
* ogra cheers for LaserJock, gutsy wouldnt have happened without him and sbalneav (and stgraber's brave tesing)
<ogra> kudos to all of you
<ogra> and congrats to sbalneav :)
<LaserJock> has anybody tried the latest docs in Gnome help?
<LaserJock> especially any translations?
<sbalneav> Yeah, I've looked at some of the translations!  It's great!
* ogra didnt yet
<ogra> but i'll do a german install
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> we didn't get any de translations :(
<ogra> bah
<ogra> which did we get ?
<LaserJock> for the handbook:
<LaserJock> en_GB, es, fi, fr, it, po, pt_BR, sv, and zh_CN
<sbalneav> Wowie
<sbalneav> No de?
<LaserJock> I think fr and sv where basically complete
* sbalneav pokes ogra :)
<LaserJock> no de
* ogra wond manage that before final
<ogra> *won't
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> So, that would be deutchland unter alles?
<ogra> well, choose between a german translation and a working gutsy classmate image ....
<ogra> i'm personally leaning towards the latter and leave germany be germany :)
<sbalneav> yeah, we kinda need the CM thing, eh? :)
<LaserJock> germans speak good english right? :-)
<ogra> right
<ogra> if not, thats a good reason to learn it :)
<ogra> anyway, anything else we need to discuss in the meeting ?
<LaserJock> About Edubuntu has 25 translations shipped
<ogra> wow
<stgraber> Server install started on real HW
<LaserJock> we're shipping any translations that > 10% translated
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't see our meeting on Fridge
<ogra> yeah, last one wasnt on either
<LaserJock> I think maybe we've run out of schedules
<LaserJock> I can fix that
<LaserJock> what time is the early one?
<LaserJock> 12:00 UTC?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> 12 and 20
<LaserJock> it's sort of insane, but Fridge has no automatic way to do repeating meetings right now
<LaserJock> so we have to put them in by hand
<ogra> weird
<ogra> we should probably just embed a google clendar in the page ;)
<ogra> *calendar
<LaserJock> well, it's gonna get fixed eventually
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> we just gotta get some sysadmin time, which is in short supply
<ogra> do we have any other meeting relevant stuff ?
<LaserJock> not I
* LaserJock just wants to say thanks to everybody involved with Edubuntu development, especially ogra and sbalneav 
<ogra> anyone else ?
<ogra> :)
<pips1> well, since you ask
<ogra> i'm paied ...
<ogra> sbalneav and LaserJock are the heroes :)
<pips1> I will need to update the website for the release, I suppose!
<ogra> might make sense, yes
<pips1> so, I marked thursday into my calendar
<LaserJock> yeah, what ever happened to our "new" site?
<stgraber> Well, thanks all of you involved in Edubuntu Gutsy Gibbon, now it's about testing it and have final release out next week
<pips1> the release is on thursday 18th, right?
<stgraber> then we can focus on Hardy and make it rocks
<ogra> can we have a banner again at the top of the page with a direct link for the release week ?
<stgraber> pips1: yes
<ogra> or two
<ogra> (weeks)
<LaserJock> yeah, good idea
<pips1> LaserJock: well, the beta site is still available, it just never took off...
<LaserJock> but did edubuntu.org get moved to Drupal5 and get a new theme?
<pips1> nope
<pips1> last I heard was highvoltage's mail asking for input regarding the color scheme
<pips1> but then I never heard anything again :-/
<ogra> who's your canonical contact ?
* pips1 thinks he should give newz2000 a ping
<ogra> newz2000 ?
<ogra> would make sense, yes
<LaserJock> who all has access to the site?
<pips1> erm, what is Matt Nuzum's nick again?
<pips1> LaserJock: you do, don't you?
<ogra> pips1, newz2000
<stgraber> pips1: Newz2000
<pips1> ogra: stgraber thanks
<pips1> :-)
<LaserJock> pips1: no I don't
<pips1> for the last release, newz2000 implemented this script that dynamically updates the link linsting to the mirror site depending on their availability
<LaserJock> I think we really should overhaul the site for the release
<pips1> well...
<LaserJock> it for sure needs to be updated
<pips1> yeah
<LaserJock> but a new look for a new release would be lovely ;-)
<pips1> hmm
<pips1> I wonder why that project got stuck in the pipeline
<pips1> I thought both newz2000 and highvoltage were on it.. :-/
<pips1> I haven't been around much lately
<pips1> too busy with work, same old story
<LaserJock> pips1: I think it's pretty much the same story for highvoltage
<pips1> LaserJock: to answer your question: there are several people with access to drupal for editing content... like Will, jonathan, erm, cbx33, ...
<ogra> neither is around anymore ...
<LaserJock> all people who are not around ....
<pips1> I suppose all of these haven't been around lately :-/
<ogra> well, jonathan from time to time (i.e. today)
<LaserJock> pips1: can you add people?
<pips1> sure
<pips1> should I add you?
<LaserJock> yes
<pips1> np
<pips1> ok
<LaserJock> I'll have a look around
<LaserJock> and maybe it'll give me something to do in my spare time *cough*
<pips1> What name do you want the content to appear under? your real name or your nick?
<pips1> What should I use as drupal username for you?
<LaserJock> hmm, JordanMantha is fine
<LaserJock> I never know which one to choose
<LaserJock> so half my accounts are under my name and the other have under my nick
<pips1> perhaps we can sort this right after the meeting?
<pips1> LaserJock: see pm
<pips1> ogra: will RichEd be around for release time?
<pips1> last release he gave me valuable input for the release text, etc and did some proofreading...
<ogra> he'll be back tomorrow or friday
<pips1> oh good
<pips1> ogra: what time do you think the release will actually happen on thursday? around mid-day?
<ogra> no idea, really
<pips1> urg
<ogra> that totally depends on the amount of testing and OMGBUGS we find
<pips1> well, we should really have the release announcement text ready before thursday...
<ogra> i think there is something in the works from the marketing team as well, but i'm not sure (richs area)
<ogra> ok, anything else for the meeting ?
<stgraber> Just for those of you willing to test pre-RC images, please think of reporting your results on the tracker
<LaserJock> I might be able to do some tests tonight
<LaserJock> in fact, I should really reinstall my laptop
<LaserJock> maybe I should just wipe it and do an Edubuntu install
<ogra> https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/qatracker/build/Edubuntu
<pips1> go Laser go
<pips1> :-)
<ogra> ^^^^ log results there
<pips1> stgraber: I will report my findings in your site for sure
<LaserJock> when it has "rebuilding" does that mean that new .isos are currently being built
<LaserJock> or just that the .iso is deemed invalid
<stgraber> they are sort of rebuilding, it required a new ubiquity upload which was done
<stgraber> so it's somewhere between waiting for the new ubiquity to be in archive and the new ISOs to be rebuilt
<ogra> ok, anything else for the meeting ?
<ogra> doesnt seem like
<ogra> going once ....
<ogra> going twice ....
* LaserJock steals ogra's gavel and bangs it
<ogra> phew, thanks
<ogra> that ends another 12h day for me :)
<pips1> phew!!
<pips1> get some well deserved sleep, ogra!!
<ogra> will do ...
<pips1> good night all
<ogra> i'll crash in front of the TV for 1-2h though :)
<LaserJock> cya ogra
<ogra> ciao
<pips1> ciao
<pips1> hope you can wind down, mr. couch potato :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-11
<jerry760poip_>  hi i got a question not sure if this is were to ask
<jerry760poip_> i have had 6 days ago F.B.I. call me.
<jerry760poip_> they said i have been having to much net activity.
<jerry760poip_> from torrented movies i told them i did not do it.
<jerry760poip_> and for the past 5 days they went to my uncle's and two cousin's work asking about me.
<jerry760poip_> and showing them my picture.
<jerry760poip_> now they have the home number to where i am so why havent they just come straight to me?
<jerry760poip_> one i do not have a hdd i'm always running live cd so of course i did not
<jerry760poip_> do it now what should i do?
<jerry760poip_> i called attorneys none around here know what to do or where i should go.
<mpt> Keybuk, no desktop team meeting today?
<Keybuk> mpt: public distro team meeting later
<mpt> Keybuk, do they alternate weeks?
<Keybuk> public entire development team meeting is monthly
<cjwatson> well, four-weekly
<mpt> ok
<evand> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 23 Oct 11:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Community Development Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Oct 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<calc> hi
<pitti> hey calc
* pitti waves across the table
<Riddell> hi
<ArneGoetje> hi
<calc> pitti: there is the final ooo upload in progress, it was supposed to have completed last night but i had some sort of computer/network trouble, looked at it today and it was just hung in the middle
<Riddell> not RC critical I hope :)
<pitti> calc: ah, great; the one which disables java on powerpc? any other changes?
<pitti> calc: (changes must be minimal at this point)
<pitti> calc: fixing sparc would be awesome, but I understand that's more luck than engineering?
<calc> pitti: yea disables java on ppc, disables portaudio v19, and has translation update for menu items
<davmor2> Riddell: not on your own :)
<pitti> ah
<pitti> hi slangasek
* mvo waves
<calc> pitti: seems to be, according to doko it seems to ICE on one box nearly every time but works on a different one
<mdz> good afternoon folks
<evand> hi
* slangasek waves
<doko> pitti: it's not reproducible. point.
<mdz> we didn't do much preparation for this meeting, as I think many of us forgot about it due to the release crunch :-)
* ogra waves
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:02. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
<pitti> doko: right, so some buildd prodding might help (that's what I meant with 'luck' :) )
<doko> pitti: with the next upload, stop the buildd on sejong so it goes to another buildd
<pitti> doko: noted
<mdz> so there isn't an agenda, and I suggest that we use this time to put our heads together regarding any outstanding issues for the release
<pitti> Ian has one topic
<mdz> what is it?
<pitti> disabling auto-cryptsetup IIRC
<pitti> but ++ for RC/final release planning, too
<mdz> Ian doesn't seem to be here
<cjwatson> I volunteered to make secure erase not the default, which seemed like the worst outstanding problem
<ogra> he's next door
<cjwatson> pitti: iirc Ian raised a cryptsetup item too; did you look at it?
<pitti> cjwatson: I looked at his bugs briefly
<dholbach> iwj: we are just talking about disabling auto-cryptsetup
<pitti> of those, the erase and the 'low contrast' ones seem easy targets for final
<cjwatson> 16:04 <cjwatson> I volunteered to make secure erase not the default, which seemed like the worst outstanding problem
<iwj> dholbach: Aha.
<pitti> the usability bugs are too intrusive IMHO
<cjwatson> 16:04 <cjwatson> pitti: iirc Ian raised a cryptsetup item too; did you look at it?
<iwj> Getting rid of the secure erase will help.
<cjwatson> I thought we might talk about what the basic set of things we need to fix is, and from there whether that's doable
<iwj> I think the passphrase prompt lack of prominence is quite serious actually.
<iwj> I mean, it doesn't actually stop you but the visibility of the bug is very high (unlike that of the prompt).
<cjwatson> bug 151264?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151264 in partman-crypto "passphrase entry screen needs work" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151264
<iwj> Bug 64408.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 64408 in usplash-theme-ubuntu ""Urgent" text is poorly readable due to low contrast (blue on black)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64408
<cjwatson> ah
<pitti> iwj: I mentioned that of your bugs the 'low contrast' one seems relatively easy to fix at first sight, the others are too intrusive IMHO
<cjwatson> damnit, we've fixed that about three times already
<iwj> 151264 is easy to fix well enough for this case - just change the text.
<iwj> cjwatson: No, no.
<pitti> since it also applies to all other texts
<pitti> like the CD check results
<cjwatson> that also bites casper
<mdz> bug 149511 is milestoned but appears invalid
<iwj> cjwatson: You misunderstand.  Bug 64408 isn't that there is actually something going wrong.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149511 in ubuntu-meta "[Gutsy]  hplip is not installed by default" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149511
<cjwatson> iwj: we have, it keeps coming back with different themes and such
<cjwatson> iwj: I'm familiar with the bug
<iwj> cjwatson: AFAICT it has never done anything differently to what it does now.
<cjwatson> iwj: sladen swore he'd fixed it
<cjwatson> a release or two ago
<iwj> There was a different bug which was some kind of driver problem.
<iwj> Which made it even worse.
<cjwatson> well, it doesn't matter. I think this one is trivial and should be on the list for final.
<pitti> so, the general question here is whether we consider the usability bugs bad enough to disable the feature post-RC, right?
<pitti> if we assume that we fix erase and contrast
<iwj> pitti: Yes, I think so.
<iwj> The prompt lacking feedback is annoying.  Can it be easily fixed ?
<cjwatson> iwj: sorry, which prompt lacking feedback?
<iwj> I don't think it's essential.  I think improving the passphrase setup wording is essential to stop users blowing their torso off.
<iwj> Bug 151305
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151305 in cryptsetup "passphrase prompt at boot-time lacks feedback" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151305
<iwj> You hit return and it does nothing to say "yes, that's fine".
<cjwatson> that ought to be a trivial matter of another usplash message
<pitti> it should probably just delete the prompt
<cjwatson> text-urgent ok or some such
<pitti> or that
<iwj> The bit of code that's actually doing the work has the ability to send the message at the right point ?
<mdz> I don't think our time is well spent arguing this particular class of bugs, given that this is an infrequently-used non-default option on the alternate CD
<mdz> I expect we have bigger fish to fry
<iwj> So of the ones in my activity report I think we should fix 151244 (secure erase), 151264 (partiallly, improve the wording), 151305 (feedback) and 64408 (colour).
<cjwatson> mdz: it's also a relatively long-awaited new feature that ISTR hearing the marketing team mentioning
<doko> linux-source did fail to build on sparc, and I'm unsure if the smp lock problem is fixed
<cjwatson> I think it behooves us to put a bit more effort into polishing it
<iwj> 151266 can wait.
<ArneGoetje> Bug 66104 needs escalation I think. Apparently there is a fix available from Redhat.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 66104 in scim "scim: input freezes in various applications under XIM mode" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/66104
<cjwatson> especially since the fixes in question seem fairly trivial
<mdz> cjwatson: it's not in any of the communications that I've seen
<pitti> so AFAICS, the only real bad bugs are 145226 (Kubuntu OEM broken) and 147943 (panel not visible sometimes under compiz, until after clicking on it), and 151351 (xorg-video-intel/kernel desync)
<mvo> #147943 <- that one should be fixed with latest compiz
<mdz> the milestone list certainly still is hard to read
<mvo> (not on the CD though)
<Riddell> cjwatson has done good things on the Kubuntu OEM problem
<ogra> pitti, lool is working on 151351
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: what do you need - a sponsor, approval, ...?
<pitti> right, compiz is in the archive, but didn't make it to the CD
<pitti> lool tests a fix for -intel
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: actually the bug is in X11... how to proceed?
<pitti> and the Kubuntu OEM one seems to boil down to a chown (I didn't check, though)
<cjwatson> pitti: it's not actually broken, you just get a stupid error
<pitti> cjwatson: oh, even better
<cjwatson> it works if you acknowledge it and move on
<cjwatson> but yes, it's fixed in bzr now
<pitti> fine for release-noting it then
* ogra saw several complaints from upgraders about modified /etc/network/interfaces (apparently interfaces were commented suddenly)
<mvo> ogra: that would be network-manager
<ogra> is that something from NM ?
<ogra> ah, right
<ogra> pretty bad if you have bound services to static devices :)
<highvoltage> (like LTSP servers?)
<asac> ogra: static devices are not changed
<ogra> highvoltage, or local webservers, samba servers etc
<ogra> asac, ah, good
<asac> ogra: and actually i haven't received any of those complains as a bug
<ogra> well, i talked to people that needed it working, all three i spoke to had fixed it manually
<ogra> and i didnt see it here yet
<asac> ogra: tell them to report a bug
<asac> :)
<ogra> indeed :)
<asac> or ping me directly
<ogra> yup
<bdmurray> I seem to recall one from yesterday but it was a desktop system they were using as a server
<Riddell> bug 151311 is pretty serious, I don't know how many video cards it affects but if it's all intel ones that's bad
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151311 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "DPI in kubuntu incorrect on xorg-video-driver-intel" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151311
<mdz> shouldn't matter; the behaviour doesn't change
<ogra> bdmurray, well, thats what i actually meant ...
<mdz> ogra: auto DHCP interfaces are treated the same by network manager as by ifupdown
<ogra> many people use their ubuntu install as webservers or fileservers in their lan, but if static interfaces arent touched its fine
<evand> Does compiz leak memory like a sieve for anyone else?  It's using about 1GB here after a day.  I think it may be related to the nvidia driver fixing the "I've run out of memory, but here's a black window for your troubles" issue.
<ogra> as i siad i couldnt reproduce it at all yet
<davmor2> Riddell:  I think bryce has done something with it but I dont know how far he got
<mdz> ogra: probably they were just confused because the change isn't documented in the file
<mdz> asac: if it isn't already, it should be added to the release notes just so that users aren't surprised
<asac> mdz: maybe we should add a comment?
<mvo> evand: I haven't see this behavior but my main workstation is not a nvidia - I have reports from people runing it on their laptop for weeks and it is fine. the trouble is that the nvidia driver changes very frequently
<ogra> yeah
<mvo> evand: and each release seem to have a new set of problems
<ogra> comment++
<mdz> asac: wish we'd thought of it before
<MacSlow> evand, I've not witnessed this on my nvidia-box here (gf 8800)
<Riddell> davmor2: if not, we should look at adding a workaround to guidance, it wouldn't be hard
<MacSlow> evand, what card/driver-version do you use_
<MacSlow> ?
<Keybuk> compiz is only one tenth the size of firefox for me
<evand> MacSlow: nVidia Corporation G70 [GeForce 7300 GT]  (rev a1)
<mvo> ArneGoetje: I think if it is not super-duper-safe we should put it into a StableReleaseUpdate
<Keybuk> admittedly, this is damning praise, but it's certainly not of the order you've found
<Keybuk> uptime is quite high
<mvo> evand: that is not a mobile one, is it?
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: unfortunately bryce is away at the moment
<asac> do we have a release notes drafting page in wiki where i can add that info?
<evand> mvo: correct, this is a iMac
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: the upstream bug report seems to indicate that the patch doesn't really fix it though?
<cjwatson> asac: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/ReleaseNotes
<evand> ii  nvidia-glx-new         100.14.19+2.6.22.4-13.6
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: yes, but it lowers the problem for now.
<davmor2> Riddell: there are a couple of work rounds on the bug itself.  but bryce has put in a link and was making some deb.diff's it's all in the bug :)
<mvo> evand: I have a testbox with the same generation of card (7600) I can give it a go
<evand> thanks mvo.  Let me know if you need anything from me.
* mvo fires up his testbox
<ArneGoetje> mvo: should we then change scim back to scim-immodule instead of xim?
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: it sounds like a possible post-release update to me
<MacSlow> hi Amaranth
<Amaranth> howdy
<slangasek> mdz: "treated the same by network manager as by ifupdown" - that doesn't seem accurate to me, IME NM never brings up the network interface until user login?
<cjwatson> I'm just looking over the patch
<pitti> ArneGoetje: does it only affect upgrades or also fresh installs? in the former case, an SRU is almost as good as pressing it into the archive
<mvo> ArneGoetje: I'm hesitant to change anything that is not a scim showstopper at this stage of the release, but then you know about this better than me
<mdz> slangasek: that's only the case for authenticated networks, which require additional configuration in /etc/network/interfaces, which means they aren't touched on upgrade
<pitti> ArneGoetje: since upgrades will directly upgrade to whatever is in -updates
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: ok, fine for me. but then we should probably change the default setting back to scim-immodule and put a note in the Release Notes.
<cjwatson> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=7606&action=view is the patch for this bug, btw
<ArneGoetje> mvo: this is a show stopper... :(
<mvo> oh :(
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: what are the consequences of going back to scim-immodule?
<slangasek> mdz: ah, ok
<asac> slangasek: NM brings up interfaces that don't need keyring access
<doko> ArneGoetje: weren't there problems with scim-immodule and OOo?
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: third party software that many users want, like skype, acroread, etc. will not work if they depend on libstdc++5
<ArneGoetje> doko: I'm not sure about OOo... let me test.
<mvo> ArneGoetje: what about scim-bridge (probably for hardy)? shouldn't that solve this issue?
<doko> ArneGoetje: iirc there was a workaround to hide libstdc++5 ...
<cjwatson> the patch seems fairly isolated to the xim bits of libx11, which is something
<ArneGoetje> mvo: need to test if it fixes all the problems. not enought information in the bug report about this.
<cjwatson> I'm concerned that switching scim configuration is much harder to fix in a post-release update than doing something like this libx11 patch
<cjwatson> if we switch back to scim-immodule, I think that's the way it needs to stay for the lifetime of gutsy
<cjwatson> whereas if we stick with xim we can fix this before or after release at RM discretion
<mvo> evand: Amaranth just pointed me to bug #151168 (filed yesterday) about a similar problem with nvidia
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151168 in compiz "memory leak in compiz w/ nvidia [gutsy] " [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151168
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: what's your suggestion?
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: put the libx11 fix in a PPA and get as many users as possible (both xim-requiring and not) to test it over the next few days
<cjwatson> then it'll be easier to decide whether it can go in post-rc pre-final
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: ok, will do.
<evand> mvo: ah, thanks for pointing me to that
<cjwatson> ok, anything else on the release agenda?
<pitti> let's get this damn thing out :)
<ogra> :)
<cjwatson> mvo: do you think 151168 is fixable?
<highvoltage> yay!
<mvo> bug #151168
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151168 in compiz "memory leak in compiz w/ nvidia [gutsy] " [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151168
<heno> Extra testing contributions are appreciated!
<Amaranth> cjwatson: I can't even reproduce it
<MacSlow> Amaranth, #151168 does not affect my 8800GTS either
<mvo> cjwatson: not if its really a bug inside the nvidia driver
<heno> Results can be filed in https://iso.qa.stgraber.org
<cjwatson> who is going to fix that usplash theme bug?
<pitti> the blueness?
<Amaranth> MacSlow: That guy even has the same 7400 Go as me
<mvo> compiz feedback welcome! if you system freeze or your keys do not work, talk to me
<dholbach> I can't reproduce with nVidia Corporation GeForce 7100 GS (rev a1) either :-/
<Amaranth> Maybe it's a plugin
<mvo> Amaranth: do you see it with vlc neither? watching video is fine?
<pitti> cjwatson: I have about zero knowledge about usplash, but with slangasek taking over release matters I have some time to look into it now
<Amaranth> mvo: Everything is fine
<mvo> evand: do you use any fancy plugins?
<evand> mvo: ugh, ring switcher?  I don't believe that's used anymore by default, is it?
<cjwatson> iwj: or perhaps you could fix that usplash bug, since you noticed it? :)
<iwj> cjwatson: OK :-).  Not that I've ever touched usplash but I can give it a go.
<Amaranth> evand: ring is enabled if you use 'extra effects'
<cjwatson> I suspect pitti is still going to be jammed pretty solid
<cjwatson> iwj: should be in usplash-theme-ubuntu though note that there are also corresponding themes for other derivatives
<Amaranth> evand: Do you use cube?
<iwj> cjwatson: Right.
<evand> odd, I thought I enabled extra effects on my girlfriend's laptop and she ended up with the iTunes switcher
<evand> Amaranth: no
<evand> well, what's the shortcut for it
<iwj> Any objection to me just making it white ?
<Keybuk> Amaranth: shift switcher is prettier than ring for extra effects
<lool> Make it pink!
* pitti smells an upcoming bikeshedding discussion
<MacSlow> Amaranth, no... shift not ring is used
<Amaranth> evand: If you don't know if you're using cube you aren't using cube
* mvo vaguely remembers that brown and orange are the favorite colors
<Amaranth> MacSlow: Oh, since when?
<pitti> iwj: in dapper we had that beautiful yellowish tone which matched the logo
<MacSlow> Amaranth, hm... a week or so
<pitti> iwj: but at that point we shouldn't be picky
<Keybuk> Shift Switcher made our Apple fanatic in the office explode with joyous delight
<evand> heh
<Amaranth> Well the guy with the problems is using ring too...
<Amaranth> So I suppose that could be
<ogra> lool++
<Keybuk> he was literally bouncing around with a huge grin on his face saying how wonderful gutsy is
<mvo> HAHA
<Amaranth> Keybuk: Which one is that? :)
<iwj> I'll make it be white and someone else can find a nicer colour if they really want, provided it isn't 000080.
<Keybuk> Amaranth: Mark Murphy, not sure whether you met him or not?
<Amaranth> evand: Disable ring, see if the problem goes away
<Amaranth> Keybuk: hmm, I don't think so
<evand> Amaranth: will do
<pitti> iwj: kwwii might have an opinion and a magic tuple :)
<cjwatson> I have no problem with white for TEXT-URGENT
<cjwatson> it's rather guaranteed to be visible
<pitti> ++
<mvo> evand: and if it goes away, make sure to mention this on the bugreport :)
<evand> mvo: will do :)
<kwwii> iwj: I don't quite get the problem
<cjwatson> kwwii: dark blue on black is hard to read
<kwwii> cjwatson: what is dark blue?
<cjwatson> kwwii: colour used for textual messages in usplash
<cjwatson> which are still used for certain prompts that require user feedback
<kwwii> ouch, that is really freaky - I thought it dipped into the palette for the color, and I do not remeber every putting blue into the pic
<pitti> kwwii: this blue is haunting us; noone put it in, and it keeps appearing
<pitti> must be some default deeply engraved in some corner of the VGA BIOS, or so
<Hobbsee> pitti: sabbotage by kubuntu, more likely.
<kwwii> iwj: let me know if I can help in any way
<pitti> Hobbsee: Right!
<kwwii> Hobbsee: shhhh! don't tell them!
<Hobbsee> ahem!
<Hobbsee> pitti: it's just telling you to get more attention given to kubuntu for hardy.
<pitti> iwj, cjwatson: so, I'm happy to look into cryptsetup and add this [OK]  confirmation
<mdz> what's the bug number for the usplash blue text bug?
<cjwatson> and I'll do the partman-crypto work
<mdz> ah, bug 64408
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 64408 in usplash-theme-ubuntu ""Urgent" text is poorly readable due to low contrast (blue on black)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64408
<pitti> 64408
<cjwatson> Arne is to put the libx11 fix into a PPA and follow up with the release team once we have testing of it
<cjwatson> lool is fixing the xorg intel breakage
<mdz> pitti mentioned bug 145226, bug 147943, bug 151351
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145226 in oem-config "Kubuntu OEM DCOP error" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145226
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 147943 in compiz "[MASTER]  broken initial stacking (was: compiz hides quick loading windows at login)" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147943
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151351 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "Corrupted screen on G33 with -14 kernel; regression from -13" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151351
* pitti grabs bug #151305
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151305 in cryptsetup "passphrase prompt at boot-time lacks feedback" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151305
<pitti> mdz: right
<cjwatson> mdz: I'm doing 145226, mvo said 147943 was fixed, 151351 is the xorg intel breakage I mentioned
<pitti> so, compiz is in the archive
<pitti> -intel is uploaded and should be in the queue
<pitti> kubuntnu oem is in bzr
<mdz> cjwatson: right, of those, only bug 151351 is milestoned for 7.10 at the moment
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151351 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "Corrupted screen on G33 with -14 kernel; regression from -13" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151351
<Keybuk> heh, kubuntnu
<pitti> mdz: the others are still at -rc, I think
<mdz> sounds like 145226 should be marked fix committed
<pitti> -intel hit -changes
<pitti> meh, it didn't have a bug number in the changelog
<cjwatson> mdz: done
<davmor2> cjwatson: will that fix 151311 too or not?
<cjwatson> same code as is causing 145226 is in ubiquity, though is only relevant if you do an automatic install
<mdz> pitti,slangasek: so https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-7.10 is believed complete and accurate now?
<cjwatson> davmor2: err, no idea
<davmor2> ok
<cjwatson> davmor2: looks totally separate to me
<pitti> mdz: there might be some stuff left over from -rc which is in unapproved and needs to be checked
<pitti> uploads have trickled in like mad
<mdz> pitti: :-/  hard to know where we stand when we don't have a single list of targets
<slangasek> mdz: I expect there are a number of bugs still milestoned under RC and actively worked on that should be transferred over; that makes for a nice bit of busywork
<cjwatson> the sooner that's done the better
<mdz> slangasek: it's time to make the final call on what gets actively worked on and what falls out
<slangasek> yes
<bdmurray> bug 135319 didn't seem fixed to me yesterday
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135319 in usplash "Usplash progress bar not centered on the monitor" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/135319
<cjwatson> slangasek: i.e. we also need to sit down and work out what goes to post-release updates
<mdz> so only the things which are showstoppers should move to the final milestone
<cjwatson> bdmurray: gah, not again
<pitti> ^ that would be the 'later' milestone, right?
<cjwatson> I was contemplating a gutsy-updates milestone
<pitti> or that
<cjwatson> though mdz seemed unsure that that was kosher
<mdz> slangasek: a good rule of thumb is that things which need to be fixed on the ISOs should get priority, since other things may be straightforward to fix in updates
<pitti> oh, btw, another thing: we need to upload new langpacks, if possible in any way
<mdz> cjwatson: we're abusing milestones, but I don't mind
<pitti> ETA is on Friday evening
* pitti crosses fingers that the Rosetta export works *this* time
<mdz> pitti: will that langpack upload fix the launchpad issue?
<mdz> urgh, unknown
<pitti> mdz: "the launchpad issue"?
<MacSlow> mvo, what would the Alt-TAB issue of bug #122549 be under?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122549 in compiz "[gutsy]  unredirect-fullscreen-windows option breaks gnome-screensaver locking behavior" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122549
<mdz> pitti: where lots of translations are missing from the export
<cjwatson> gutsy-updates exists as a milestone now
<pitti> mdz: I'll manually correct the useless per-country translations which often bring bad results, yes
<mvo> MacSlow: it used to be critical, I consider it only high now, but we definitely should try to fix it for final
<pitti> mdz: I wasn't told about missing translations, apart from the missing ones from restricted
<MacSlow> mvo, ok... just wanted to be verified
<pitti> (restricted-manager, mainly); this will be fixed
<Keybuk> mvo: I had that bug today
<pitti> slangasek: when should we absolutely close the door for uploads? should we project the final CDs for Monday evening?
<Keybuk> my passphrase was being typed into a web browser hidden behind the screensaver
<Keybuk> all I could do with the unlock dialog was click the buttons
<Keybuk> *except* I was running metacity at the time
<Keybuk> not compiz
<Amaranth> joy
<Amaranth> I wonder why gnome-screensaver needs to be override-redirect
<Amaranth> gksu does the same thing and isn't (iirc)
<Amaranth> and that seems to be at least part of the problem
<slangasek> pitti: by Monday evening you mean the 15th?
<MacSlow> Keybuk, what? you had that with metacity?! Uff!
<mdz> slangasek: the only Monday before the final release ;-)
<Amaranth> gnome-screensaver is broken :P
<pitti> slangasek: right
<slangasek> pitti: if it's logistically sound that the CDs should be finalized three days before the release date, then I'm not going to disagree
<mvo> Keybuk: holly cow, really? this happend with metacity?
<pitti> slangasek: I was just estimating the time we need for testing them all
<MacSlow> Amaranth, maybe we should replace gnome-screensaver with a purely plugin-based screensaver?
<cjwatson> slangasek: it should be; certainly aiming for any later than that is a bad plan, imo
<slangasek> ok, Monday it is ):
<slangasek> :)
<Amaranth> MacSlow: haha
<pitti> slangasek: so, let's say when you wake up you build the final images?
<slangasek> sounds good
<pitti> slangasek: fixing a rough date and time and announcing it would be good for the team, I think
<cjwatson> slangasek: are you in active touch with both Jonathan and Oliver for Kubuntu and Edubuntu respectively?
<mdz> that's all the time we allocated for this meeting, if you have important work to do for the release, feel free to wander off
<mdz> release discussion can continue here
<mvo> Keybuk: the good news is that we used the sledgehammer and this kind of behavior should not happen with compiz. the bad news is the screengrab does not work and people can still switch workspaces (from one black/locked one to the next)
<asac> mdz: can you bump prio for rt.admin ticket #29154 ?
<slangasek> cjwatson: active, if infrequent to date
<Keybuk> mvo: I think it had something to do with epiphany refreshing a web page, and having to pop up a dialog about security issues
<Keybuk> since there was a dialog that wasn't there before
<cjwatson> slangasek: they should be the ones to give the go for their derivatives
<slangasek> ok
<MacSlow> Keybuk, so the popup was stealing gnome-screensavers focus?!
<asac> if all goes well, firefox security updates will be out on the day we release ... will gutsy security infrastructure be in place to roll that update on the same day?
<asac> keescook: ^^ ?
<Keybuk> MacSlow: dunno, that's my theory *shrug*
<pitti> asac: it has been requested from the soyuz/IS teams anyway
<mdz> asac: I can, and it's appropriate for me to do so, but it seems unlikely anything will happen before the final release
<mvo> MacSlow: that makes sense actually, the focus behavior was what broke it with compiz too
<mdz> asac: where is it hosted currently?
<asac> mdz: ok ... i posted the ticket back then because elmo asked me to do so ... he felt a bit unhappy about it being hosted on people.ubuntu.com
<mdz> asac: oh, so at least it's on a production server
<Amaranth> oh, gksu is override-redirect
<Amaranth> and uses basically the same code as gnome-screensaver (the important bits are actually copied from gnome-screensaver)
<Amaranth> but gksu doesn't have this problem, ever
<cjwatson> I would be happier with ubufox moving post-release, I think
<asac> mdz: problem is that cannot include upstream plugin results because i am not allowed to call pfs.mozilla.org from peope.ubuntu.com
<cjwatson> seems a bit late now to be sure that the new service is working
<asac> mdz: e.g. due to firewall rules
<slangasek> asac: the information I've gotten so far indicates that there's a logistics problem with trying to have gutsy-security live day-one because of the dak one-time import
<pitti> last time it took three days...
<mdz> asac: it seems to include upstream plugin results for me...are you working around it?
<cjwatson> slangasek is correct
<cjwatson> usually takes a few days
<pitti> we continuously get promised that -security moves to LP, but it seems to take a while still
<mdz> slangasek: is there an RT open for that import?
<asac> mdz: no you see only results that are packaged ... but not the pristine upstream .xpi result
<slangasek> mdz: #29225
<cjwatson> if we freeze the archive solid a couple of days before release, the import could start early
<mdz> asac: eek...
<mdz> asac: seems like this should have been raised earlier
<pitti> cjwatson: that would be nice indeed
<slangasek> cjwatson: which seems to only be a question of moving the window during which gutsy security updates aren't possible?
<mdz> slangasek: that's not even in a queue yet; I can't view it
<pitti> calc: do you think we can get the new OO.o by tomorrow, so that it can shake out over the weekend?
<slangasek> mdz: er, ok; it's been responded to by elmo
<cjwatson> slangasek: in practice they're more or less out of the question in the day before release anyway
<cjwatson> since the buildds need to quiesce
<slangasek> sure
<mdz> slangasek: he probably forgot to put it in the distribution queue
<slangasek> cjwatson: so timeline here would be: final images Monday evening, freeze the archive at the same time; testing starts; if there are no showstoppers by Tuesday, begin the gutsy-security dak import?
<slangasek> (and if there are showstoppers after Tuesday, abort & restart?)
<cjwatson> I think the dak import is resumable to some extent
<Hobbsee> slangasek: main and universe at that point, i take it?
<cjwatson> (though best check that with James, I only have a sketchy knowledge of what's involved)
<asac> mdz: sorry ... thought i had a screenshot that shows you how upstream results would look like ... anyway, i think its unfortunate, but not a big issue. afaik upstream database just has adobe flash for linux.
<slangasek> Hobbsee: yes
<Hobbsee> slangasek: and, as the RM, do you plan to actually notify ubuntu-motu ML about the timelines?
<slangasek> Hobbsee: this question seems to have only one right answer ;)
<Hobbsee> s/actually//
<mdz> asac: oh, I thought there was more thene
<mdz> asac: there
<Hobbsee> slangasek: well, yes, it does have an effect on whether you'll have a lot of people angry at you and canonical, and whether you'll get poked with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<mdz> asac: if they have the same plugins we do, then it's nothing to worry about
<cjwatson> Hobbsee: (last I checked, final-week uploads even in universe required approval ...)
<mdz> Hobbsee: assuming the wiki docs include the necessary notifications, I'm sure he will remember
<Hobbsee> mdz: they didnt last time, so i'm just double checking
<cjwatson> oh, damn, I still need to move ReleaseCandidateProcess and ReleaseProcess to wiki.ubuntu.com
<cjwatson> I'll do that today
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: oh right, i wasnt aware.  somewhat scary, seeing as i'm on that too.
* Hobbsee hugs cjwatson - thankyou :)
<cjwatson> Hobbsee: end of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<asac> mdz: yes ... but we should definitly implement it ... if not now then through a SRU at some point. upstream asked us to keep their preferred result in the list.
<sladen> bdmurray: will you be my guinea pig if we go back to the off centre issie?
<cjwatson> but I agree it's not clear on when the hard lockdown is
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: i'llb et MOTU-uvf doesnt know about that.  but OK.
<bdmurray> sladen: I'll be your huckleberry
<asac> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/pfs/screens/pfs3.png ... the blue earth is "install from internet"
<pitti> ok, seems we're done here? release stuff should go to #u-release
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> thanks all
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 23 Oct 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:39.
<cjwatson> mootbot should garbage-collect meetings
<Keybuk> cjwatson: don't the scribes take care of that?
<kraut> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 16 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 18:00: QA Team | 23 Oct 17:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 16:00: Community Development Team
<kraut> hmmm, the kernel team seems to be busy ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-12
<freakcode> I'm looking for the logs of the last Artwork meeting. It isn't on the wiki@MeetingLogs, should I consider that this meeting didn't happened or that simply there isn't a log of it yet (or maybe forever)?
<PriceChild> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<PriceChild> freakcode, have you checked that link above?
<freakcode> No, just on the wiki URL that is on the channel topic
<freakcode> Im going to see those. Thanks
<freakcode> PriceChild: I found the log, thanks
<PriceChild> *highfives freakcode*
<freakcode> highfive! ;)
<dholbach> good morning
<highvoltage> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> high voltage!
<highvoltage> heh, I get that a lot :)
<kraut> moin
<lool> dholbach: Hmm is there only a MOTU Q&A session today?  I thought there was another MOTU even today?
<dholbach> lool: yes, at 14:30 UTC in #ubuntu-classroom
<dholbach> it should be on the fridge
<dholbach> *checks*
<dholbach> yep: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1161
<lool> dholbach: I checked there already, but as I said I thought there was another event today?
<lool> (s/even/event in my first sentence)
<dholbach> lool: not sure what else is there
<lool> My keyboard batteries are almost dead, makes me do even more typos
<lool> dholbach: Must have dreamed it then; nm
* dholbach hugs lool
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<ogra> argh
<highvoltage> ogra: argh?
<ogra> highvoltage, all good ...
<ogra> wrong channel :)
<highvoltage> ok :)
<saqib> hi to every one
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-13
<kraut> moin
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-14
<Balkhog> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 14 2007, 17:24:55 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 1 day
<dthacker> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 16 Oct 11:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 11:00: QA Team | 23 Oct 10:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 11:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 11:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 09:00: Community Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-07
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 07 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council | 08 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 08 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 09 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council | 08 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 08 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 09 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 09 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team
<stgraber> @schedule America/Montreal
<ubottu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 07 Oct 07:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 07 Oct 15:00: LoCo Council | 08 Oct 13:00: QA Team | 08 Oct 18:00: Platform Team | 09 Oct 08:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 09 Oct 09:00: Desktop Team
<superm1> @schedule America/Chicago
<ubottu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 07 Oct 06:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 07 Oct 14:00: LoCo Council | 08 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 08 Oct 17:00: Platform Team | 09 Oct 07:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 09 Oct 08:00: Desktop Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Asia Oceania Membership Board Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council | 08 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 08 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 09 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 09 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team
<TheMuso> Hey amachu.
<amachu> TheMuso: Hi..
<amachu> persia: elkbuntu: lifeless: Hi
<persia> Good evening.
<amachu> persia: Good evening
<Arc> morning
<amachu> elkbuntu: are you there?
<elkbuntu> hello
<amachu> great, and lifeless?
<amachu> Arc: Hi
<Arc> hey amachu
<elkbuntu> daylight savings has kicked in. it's now 10pm for lifeless, TheMuso and I.
<TheMuso> Thats still managable for me.
<amachu> amireldor and svaksha appear not to be here
<elkbuntu> well yes, i'm the only one of the three that has to commute :Ã
<amachu> elkbuntu: ok
<persia> Do we want to try to change the time for daylight savings?  It's still only 16:30 for India.
<amachu> persia: We will first take up candidates, and later come to discuss on that
<amachu> persia: elkbuntu: TheMuso and myself
<amachu> We have quorum
<persia> OK.
<amachu> Arc: Hi..
<elkbuntu> i dare say we wont be able to negotiate the time :(
<elkbuntu> this is the time stretch i was worried about
<Arc> so what's the order?
<amachu> Please go ahead presenting yourself and your contributions to Ubuntu
<amachu> order?
<Arc> oh order that we're going
<amachu> Please go ahead
<Arc> well I've been involved in promoting Ubuntu for a few years now through various programs
<Arc> a few months ago I got involved in organizing our LoCo along with Nikkiana (who's now our team leader)
<Arc> big recent contributions is organizing Software Freedom Day in front of our state capitol (the "Live Free or Die" state, an easy sell)
<Arc> and very recently, last night presenting an Ibex preview at our local LUG as part of the loco
<Arc> I also do both commercial and free community support on my own, as I have for years, helping people install or "fix" their home ubuntu machines
<Arc> I've personally installed Ubuntu for over 50 people in the last year
<elkbuntu> everyone still on the one server?
<elkbuntu> s/still/not/
<TheMuso> yep
<elkbuntu> blah. 10pm brain just set in
<persia> heh
<Arc> I'm currently working with other LoCo members at putting together a NH themed Ibex remix CD and figuring out how to fund a CD rep run
<amachu> yes
<nikkiana> Arc was also really instrumental in being a force to keep the newly forming NH LoCo from falling apart before it got started.
<persia> Arc, It seems like most of your work has been with your LoCos.  Were you able to convince any other members of the NH LoCo to get up so early?
<elkbuntu> nikkiana, in what way?
<Arc> persia: yea nikkiana :-)
<Arc> in addition to nikkiana our team advisor, Liz aka pleia, wrote a testimonial on my wiki page; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArcRiley
<Arc> she also serves on the Americas membership council, so was in a bit of conflict of interest when I applied through that council
<elkbuntu> nikkiana?
<nikkiana> elkbuntu, when we were experiencing problems with the then leader who had a different idea of what the group should be than the rest of us, many of us (myself included) were ready to just give up and quit  and start a different project.
<nikkiana> Arc was the one in the group who encouraged us to work through our conflict with our former leader.
<Arc> our former team leader was removed by the LoCo council after a lengthy process in which neither we or they could find a more amicable resolution with him
<elkbuntu> nikkiana, so like a cheerleader? or mediator?
<amachu> Arc: you launchpad profile shows you to be part of Ubuntu Women Team.. What role you play there?
<Arc> amachu: mostly I like to keep track of the mailing list threads, there's a lot of thought-provoking stuff on there
<Arc> I self-identify as a feminist and having gender balance in activities is important
<nikkiana> elkbuntu, sort of a bit of both. he played a mediator role in helping our group focus our frustration into an effort to make the group survive rather than to just go our seperate ways. when the rest of us were questioning whether it was worth it, Arc was there encouraging us not to give up.
<nikkiana> He also took a lead role when we were dealing with the LoCo Council regarding the situation surrounding the removal of our former leader.
<Arc> there really wasn't a lot of "mediation" going on, since our former leader wouldn't talk to us beyond declairing his position
<Arc> that's what the LoCo council found as well, and why he was removed.  aritocratic behavior isn't acceptible, especially for leaders
<amachu> Arc: How about women in New Hampshire Team?
<Arc> I know about overall membership, but we had almost an equal number of women to men volunteering at SFD'08 two weeks ago
<amachu> I hope we can take voting now..
<Arc> we were tabling in public and outreaching to people walking by, having a nearly equal number of women at the tables represented Ubuntu as not just a "geeky male thing"
<amachu> and one more question from me, other that pySoy are there any other list of packages in your mind cureently which you like to package
<Arc> I need to get more involved with MOTU, but I'm generally interested in getting more Python stuff packaged.  Newer Sphinx and Genshi come to mind
<Arc> PySoy itself is a game engine though, I think we'll have a good deal of work in packaging PySoy-based games in the future
<amachu> Genshi, is that related to trac?
<Arc> it's the templating system for Trac, my current task in the Sphinx project is adding Genshi template support
<Arc> it's an XML-based templating system that's much more robust than Jinja (Sphinx's default)
<amachu> Arc: Ok
<Arc> I'm sure as I get more involved with MOTU I'll find more things that need to be packaged :-)
<amachu> Arc: It appear you are involved with Hampshire team for the last five months
<Arc> yea, I got involved just before the team's 2nd meeting
<elkbuntu> 2nd under the prior mentioned overlord?
<Arc> *nod*
<Arc> he actually recruited me, after meeting me at our local PySIG (Python Special Interest Group)
<amachu> and the testimonials, presence of nikkiana, promising work on pySoy convince me to give +1 for you
<amachu> persia: TheMuso: elkbuntu: ??
<Arc> we talked about the Ubuntu promotion I did in Ithaca, and he thought I was ideal for the LoCo
<elkbuntu> +1
<TheMuso> +1 from me. I think Arc has been doing some great work, particularly helping to get a group back on its feet.
<persia> +1 from me.  looks like good work in both Ithaca and NH, along with support of the LoCo team leader.
<amachu> Great! Welcome Arc and best wishes for your future work
<Arc> thank you guys :-)
<elkbuntu> svaksha is sorta-kinda-maybe around, but just got split off
<amachu> stefanlsd: appear not to be here
<elkbuntu> lets wait for the netsplat before we finish up
<amachu> elkbuntu: We need discuss on the time period that can be considered apt for considering contributions..
<amachu> We were in the middle of the discussion on whether 2-3 months is enough or more time is needed
<elkbuntu> i thought this was something that was going to be discussed across all the councils, not just ours
<amachu> persia: and on the time factor?
<amachu> elkbuntu: ok fine.
<persia> elkbuntu, It will need to be so before changing the wiki.  I'm happy to discuss it ourselves first : if we don't have consensus, it's not worth pushing for the change.
<persia> Personally, I'd be happier to change the wiki, as I'm not sure appropriate guidance is being given to candidates.
<elkbuntu> i think the time thing probably is more important
<persia> RIght.  Time first.
<elkbuntu> while i dont mind the fact that we're dealing with alot of .eu
<persia> I'm very flexible, so count me available.
<elkbuntu> i suspect this is at the cost of the area we're supposed to be helping
<amachu> elkbuntu: I agree
<elkbuntu> are the indian region people finding a suitible board at all?
<elkbuntu> amachu, you'd be the most up on this
<amachu> how about the timings of others?
<amachu> let me check..
<TheMuso> As I said earlier, this time suits me, although an hour later would not.
<elkbuntu> amachu, have any of your people recently used another board due to better compatibility?
<elkbuntu> TheMuso, yes, this is right on the edge of what i can handle
<elkbuntu> any later and it infringes on A Good Night Sleep
<amachu> TheMuso: How about days?
<TheMuso> amachu: Days are fine, but it makes it harder if it is during work time.
<TheMuso> amachu: As sometimes I can get on a role and completely forget meeting times. :)
<amachu> elkbuntu: thats a vast geography to cover, one was comfortable with our time and another expressedsome uneasyness
<elkbuntu> amachu, it's a stupidly vast geography to cover
<persia> Also, the wiki guidance says that each board will have a meeting in local "evening".  Moving to days gets us better support for the Americas, but not so much for some of our core region, if people cannot IRC at work.
<persia> (and yes "evening" doesn't make sense with this many timezones)
<elkbuntu> i think we need to expand the board and do alternating times
<amachu> TheMuso: all Days are fine ? Mon - Sun
<elkbuntu> amachu, that's still compromising a section of the world to 'sorry, you do not count'
<TheMuso> amachu: Ok, mduring the week is preferable, so I can do all evenings except Monday evenings, and the weekend.
<persia> elkbuntu, Essentially separate Asia and Oceania ?
<elkbuntu> persia, kind of.
<persia> elkbuntu, What sort of times were you thinking?  Maybe 8:00 UTC and 14:00 UTC?
 * elkbuntu calculates
<elkbuntu> too late for the magic brain clock :(
<amachu> what time does EMEA or Americas have their meeting at?
<amachu> 19.00 UTC for EMEA it appears
<persia> elkbuntu, That's 19:00 AEDT and 19:30 IST
<elkbuntu> 7pm is a tad early, based on running meetings in Aus, 8pm is more likely to work
<elkbuntu> 7pm is Dinner Time for a huge proportion of peeps
<persia> Yeah, that's why I figure it's a time that most candidates could make themselves available.  Bad for us, but good for them.
<persia> 9:00 and 15:00 actually works better for me anyway.
<persia> (that's 8:00 AEDT + 8:30 IST)
<amachu> persia: 15:00 UTC?
<persia> amachu, Yes.
<amachu> that should also be fine
<elkbuntu> now, what we need to do is to propose to the CC that we bring probably 2 more people on board. who are more compatible with amachu than with the 3 sydney folk
<persia> Right, and those of us in UTC+8 can sit on both.
<amachu> 9:00 would end up in a similar situation as of now
<persia> amachu, Would you compose that proposal, or would you like a hand?
<amachu> hey, belutz and zakame appear not to be present
<elkbuntu> does 2 extra sound fair?
<persia> 2 extra is enough iff we can get back the two members who haven't been in attendance for a while.  Otherwise we might want three or four.
<persia> I still think we need 4 in attendance at each meeting, and I only expect one or two people to be able to attend both, given the times.
<persia> (unless I misremember people's timezones)
<amachu> persia: that mean two extra in board with same time?
<elkbuntu> eeeek, lag time
<persia> amachu, Two from the west.  Restore the centre.
<persia> The east has good coverage.
<elkbuntu> persia, sadly, you will probably be the most used :-/
<amachu> elkbuntu: :-)
<elkbuntu> which is probably not good either
<elkbuntu> amachu, what times are zakame and belutz from?
<persia> elkbuntu, That's only because I'm in the middle.  Ideally, I'd like to see 3 from the west, 3 from the east, and 3 from the centre.
<amachu> belutz is close
<elkbuntu> i now have to be completely embarrassed that i dont know where zakame and belutz are from...
<TheMuso> Sorry folks, but I gotta run. I agree with probably having more people on board to cover more times since it seems we are not covering everyone atm.
<amachu> belutz from Indonesia
<persia> zakame is UTC+8, Belutz hid the timezone display
<elkbuntu> amachu, so they're both technically center?
<persia> Belutz is likely in UTC+8 or UTC+9
<persia> elkbuntu, Yes, and should be as useful as I.
<elkbuntu> persia, maybe we need to review if they're still able to participate?
<amachu> persia: yes
<elkbuntu> if not, now is probably the best time to shuffle
<persia> elkbuntu, Indeed.  It's been a while since either attended.  If not, I'd like to see +8/+9 more widely represented (even from Perth, if required)
<amachu> persia: yes. We need to ask them
<elkbuntu> persia, yeah, perth people dont actually show up much. the only perthian in the loco is busy being high on e17 ;)
<elkbuntu> well, the only active perthian
<persia> elkbuntu, Yeah, well, my point is that it's not about Australians not being up late enough, just about timezones :)
<elkbuntu> persia, yeah, i know
<amachu> persia: are we for change of current time?
<elkbuntu> however, as it's approaching '7 hrs until i need to wake' time, can i please suggest we continue this on the mailing list with the CC cc'd?
<elkbuntu> amachu, i think this all needs doing in one fell swoop. we wont have quorum at your end until we have new vict... err... board members.
<persia> amachu, I'm all for it. Please send the requisite request for expansion and multiple meetings to the CC.
 * persia will have more meetings, but is usually in #ubuntu-meeting anyway
<elkbuntu> persia, face it, you dont even sleep. you're a robot.
<amachu> persia: fine. I will do it after hearing from belutz and zakame
<amachu> good. it that all for now?
<elkbuntu> speaking of timezones, is it just me or does that google mappy thingie in launchpad have odd ideas about where places are?
<persia> elkbuntu, Please fund greater advances in battery technology.  Charge times could be improved.
<elkbuntu> persia, hehehe
<persia> elkbuntu, It's settable by anyone, and adjustable by anyway, and cannot be reset.  Bugs have been filed.
<amachu> ;-)
<elkbuntu> persia, delightful. i was wondering when you moved to In The Middle Of The Ocean.
<persia> It was right after I was incorrectly placed by someone else, although I've been told I've since been moved from where I placed myself.
<amachu> persia (Robo): elkbuntu: I will take it to our mailing list frist and then to Cc...
<persia> The resolution here is sufficient that I'd need to either identify the specific section of my house, or lie.  I don't like either, so I choose to lie in a way that is incredibly obvious to all.
<elkbuntu> instead of RoboCop, RoboGeek.
<persia> (and am waiting for the resolution of the bugs)
<persia> amachu, Sounds good to me.
<amachu> fine then. Good bye
<elkbuntu> amachu, sounds good. i suspect we schedule as per this week for the next meeting though.
<amachu> Our next meeting will be on 21 Oct 08, 11.00 AM UTC
<persia> Yeah.  No schedule changes until CC approves.  Also, I'd like to only have one meeting a week, alternating between the times.
<amachu> persia: not on the second week :-)
<amachu> persia: elkbuntu: thanks for participating.
<persia> amachu, Well, if we change the time, the conflict goes away.  On Tuesdays, this room is booked for 11:00, 14:00, and 23:00 each biweekly.
<elkbuntu> persia, two meetings a month should be perfectly fine, given our current load.
<persia> elkbuntu, I guess.  I was thinking two meetings a month for each of 9:00 and 15:00, as I don't think we can handle more than 2 candidates an hour, and that's pressing it.
<persia> I'd rather more shorter meetings.
<elkbuntu> this is true
<elkbuntu> but, its not like we're inundated. we had one candidate today.
<persia> And we've not had an actual candidate from our theoretical region for a few weeks now (I think tuxmaniac was last)
<elkbuntu> if we're going to get ganged by half a loco like the one time we had more than 2, we're going to get ganged no matter how we do it.
<persia> True.  On the other hand, I think we sorted that LoCo in just two or three weeks.  I just don't want that to be a month or two.
<elkbuntu> i suspect so. the ones from our region i think you'll find are the ones languishing in the wait list
 * persia would like meetings with no applicants, and no discussion.
<persia> Yeah, and hopefully more flexible meeting times will help with that.  I think we're only really good for UTC+8/+9 now, and that's not everyone.
<amachu> ok
<elkbuntu> persia, and aside from basically japan, that's basically an economically underpriveliged strip. why there are not more japanese piping up i'd love to know, but that's a story for another day.
<persia> elkbuntu, It's complicated, but mostly language.  I expect we'll have a bunch of applicants in March or so.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council | 08 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 08 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 09 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 09 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team | 09 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java
<amachu> persia: imagine India :-)
<persia> amachu, I do regularly :)
<amachu> have you visited?
<elkbuntu> foss.in needs to pick a less-busy-for-me time :(
<persia> Only Maharastra.
<amachu> persia: Hmm.. thats intersting.. Mumbai?
<persia> Yes.  A week of work, with bracketing weekends.  Definitely different than other cities I'd seen.
<amachu> elkbuntu: there are lot of other events may also be queue..
<amachu> may also be in queue..
<elkbuntu> amachu, ooh, more confs in india?
<amachu> freedel happens regularly as foss.in
<amachu> elkbuntu: yes...
<amachu> and we had one in Chennai last year and in Pune or Mumbai(?) too last year
<amachu> People are planning to have one in Kearla this december
<elkbuntu> is foss.in the biggest?
<amachu> Ooof! lots of typing errors today :-(
<amachu> elkbuntu: yes!
<elkbuntu> amachu, i figured so, which is why i'm sad to miss it every year
<amachu> but I am Chennai :-) both of you are invited anytime :-)
<amachu> bye for now.. its time to leave..
<elkbuntu> indeed. g'nite!
 * _persia swaps batteries
<freeflying> @schedule shanghai
<ubottu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 08 Oct 03:00: LoCo Council | 09 Oct 01:00: QA Team | 09 Oct 06:00: Platform Team | 09 Oct 20:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 09 Oct 21:00: Desktop Team | 09 Oct 22:00: Ubuntu Java
<pitti> hi
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Technical Board Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council | 07 Oct 21:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Arabic | 15 Oct 04:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC
<apachelogger> hey
<superm1> hi
<Keybuk> mdz is on his way
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:03. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<mdz> hello all
 * ogra waves
<mdz> we're starting a few minutes late, so let's get right into it
<mdz> [TOPIC] ubuntu-core-dev application from Mario Limonciello
<MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu-core-dev application from Mario Limonciello
<mdz> superm1: hi
<superm1> hi mdz
<Keybuk> superm1: you've had upload permission for dkms so far, and are now applying for full core-dev?
<mdz> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-September/001650.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-September/001650.html
<mdz> ^ Mario's application and support, courtesy of MOTU council
<superm1> Keybuk, yes.  i've found that an increasingly large amount of the packages that I end up patching and working on are falling into main
<mdz> superm1: is your work driving that change?
<superm1> mdz, both my work and personal time have been driving that.  For work, it ends up that for enabling hardware a lot of stuff is in main.
<superm1> mdz, for personal efforts, I've had interests in things such as AMD's closed driver and getting the bluetooth experience improved
<mdz> superm1: bluez could certainly use some love
<mdz> superm1: the feedback from your sponsors is great, just reading over it
<superm1> mdz, over the last week and a half, i've been working with upstream to get the 4.x release in order with the intention of it coming into intrepid
<Keybuk> which upstream is that?
<mdz> superm1: eek
<mdz> superm1: is there a feature freeze exception active for that?
<superm1> there has been a rather thorough investigation of it going on in the bluetooth ppa to check that no regressions developed
<pitti> (for the record, Steve just blessed the update, and there were loads of testers)
<ogra> mdz, yes
 * ogra is sad it doesnt work with most of his devices still
<Keybuk> it'd be good to have someone caring for bluetooth
<superm1> Keybuk, bluez upstream, particularly marcel
<ogra> Keybuk, if davidm approves i'd take parts of it from jaunty on, mobile is deep in the bluez stuff anyway
<ogra> and it annoys me that 3 out of four devices i own still dont work :P
 * pitti raises his hand, he has two questions for Mario
<mdz> superm1: I've always found it required a lot of fiddling to get even basic functionality working, so I expect it could only get better
<superm1> mdz, yeah particularly input devices work great now - combined with xorg's input hotplug
 * stgraber waves
<superm1> and the wizard part of the 4.x stack.
<superm1> sure, pitti ?
<mdz> pitti: please
<pitti> assume hal 0.5.12 would be released next week, and you heard it will fix some issues on Dell systems; what would you do?
<pitti> (just some "policy & workflow" tests)
<superm1> pitti, look at the delta from the last hal release and identify what else changed
<superm1> pitti, if the delta did more than just that, pull out patches
<superm1> particularly hal has git upstream, so it's easy enough to pull a patch and drop it into debian/patches
<pitti> superm1: why don't you just update the package to the new upstream version?
<superm1> pitti, to prevent new regressions that would not necessarily be forseen
<pitti> superm1: ok, that's certainly a cautious and valid approach
<superm1> pitti, now if there were other relevant bug fixes that we have things filed in launchpad, that's a different situation
<pitti> note that if the update just fixes a couple of additional bugs, it is legitimate, and even encouraged, to upload it
<superm1> pitti, and it would be more worthwhile to evaluate it
<pitti> ok
<pitti> let's further assume that in the following week you see a bug against hal with an updated FDI for fixing a magic key on a particular system; what would you do?
<superm1> reclassify it against hal-info most likely, since that's where most the FDI's live
<superm1> but if it's something I can double check, i'd like to try the updated FDI myself, submit it upstream and update hal-info
<pitti> yep; thanks
<pitti> (I'm done)
<mdz> pitti: thanks
<mdz> Keybuk: any further questions?
<Keybuk> none from me
<mdz> ou
<mdz> ok
<mdz> [VOTE] ubuntu-core-dev application from Mario Limonciello
<MootBot> Please vote on:  ubuntu-core-dev application from Mario Limonciello.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<mdz> #endvote
<mdz> MootBot: *poke*
<mdz> superm1: anyhow, congratulations and thank you
<superm1> thanks everyone :)
<apachelogger> superm1: congrats :)
 * pitti hugs superm1, great work so far!
<mdz> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 2
<evand> superm1: congratulations!
<ogra> yay superm1
<mvo> congrats superm1
<stgraber> congrats superm1
<mdz> Riddell has added an application from Harald Sitter to the agenda
<mdz> this one hasn't been processed by the MOTU council
<mdz> [TOPIC] ubuntu-core-dev application from Harald Sitter
<MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu-core-dev application from Harald Sitter
<Riddell> most of the motu council do seem to have responded
<mdz> well, one of them has just become a father, so I can't blame him ;-)
<_persia> Indeed.  At this point it's an administrative detail that the recommendation has yet to be sent.
<Riddell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-October/001681.html  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-October/001679.html
<apachelogger> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-September/001531.html
<mdz> _persia: I really appreciate the application summaries that come in, with all of the links spelled out.  it saves us time in compiling all of the information
<apachelogger> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-September/001555.html
<mdz> Riddell: is Harald here?
<Riddell> he is apachelogger
 * apachelogger waves :)
<mdz> ah, his realname is not set
<mdz> apachelogger: what is your Launchpad username?
<apachelogger> apachelogger
<Keybuk> Batman, huh?
<apachelogger> Keybuk: We founded a team to take care of KDE release packaging, which happened to be around the time the new Batman movie came out, so everything is kind of bat-ish.
<apachelogger> Like the scripts we use are called batscripts etc.
<Keybuk> I've just been sitting and trying to figure a humours way to work a K into that
<ogra> did you find one ?
<apachelogger> I would go with KBatman really ;-)
<Keybuk> apachelogger: you've been working mostly on Kubuntu so far
<apachelogger> Keybuk: yes
<Keybuk> what do you see the biggest challenge that Kubuntu needs to solve in the next year?
<mdz> _persia: are you saying on behalf of the council that you support his application?
<apachelogger> Keybuk: Quality. There are a lot of bugs which are around for ages but never get fixed, even if they are pretty simple.
<Keybuk> apachelogger: why do you think that they haven't been fixed?
<apachelogger> No one looked at it.
<persia> mdz, Yes.  I'll prepare that email now.
<apachelogger> Keybuk: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_cve
<apachelogger> .used=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY
<mdz> tinyurl that?
<apachelogger> mdz: faster that way ;-)
<apachelogger> anyway, kdebase was pretty much the central part of KDE bugs in KDE 3 and now are at >100 New or Incomplete bugs
<apachelogger> the very same applies for kdepim
<Riddell> http://tinyurl.com/495bws
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://tinyurl.com/495bws
<apachelogger> \o/
<Keybuk> apachelogger: why do you think nobody is looking at the bugs?
<mdz> Riddell: do you have a link to your sponsorship feedback?
<Riddell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-August/001505.html
<mdz> apachelogger: if you're interested in tracking down stale bugs and cleaning up, you might talk to the folks who run http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/ and see about getting some packages added there
<apachelogger> Keybuk: lazyness mostly. Maybe also the fact that a lot of them are actualyl upstream bugs.
<Riddell> with apachelogger we've been able to turn packaging KDE releases into a full community effort, it's working really well
<mdz> kdebase is already on there
<mdz> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/kdebase
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/kdebase
<ScottK> Here is my sponsor feedback https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-August/001494.html
<ScottK> Despite the hesitation in the mail, I support the application.
<mdz> dholbach: are you around?
<apachelogger> mdz: yeah, good idea. Thank you.
<apachelogger> Actually one can see pretty well when we started cleaning up kdebase on that page ;-)
<Keybuk> apachelogger: did you respond to ScottK's question in his feedback?
<mdz> Riddell:  you mention that Harald has been leading the KDE packaging process for 4.1.x.  can you tell us more about that?  how is that process organized?
<apachelogger> Keybuk: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-August/001495.html
<Riddell> mdz: it has to be done somewhat clandestinely since KDE gives us tars a week early but doesn't want them published until release day, so we have a secret archive and wiki page for coordination and share out the modules amongst people available
 * ScottK can attest to the volume of work done by the team as I ended up sponsoring an entire KDE release when Riddell was on vacation.  It's a lot.
<Riddell> I think it started when I was away during a KDE release, apachelogger tried to do it all himself and realised it was too much work so he got this community effort into process
<apachelogger> Yes, that was KDE 4.1 rc I think.
<mdz> Riddell: secret archive?
<Riddell> just on apachelogger's own server
<mdz> Riddell: with hand-built binaries?  then the source is uploaded on release day?
<Riddell> mdz: yep
<apachelogger> mdz: the team sends the packaging to me, I review it, and build it on a complete stack, then upload the source and debs for internal access
<mdz> can anyone speak to why this application seemed to take a long time to get through the council?
<nixternal> mdz: I voted right away on this one and others...I think the rest of the MC were very busy with personal life at the time
<nixternal> which is usually the other way around, with me being super busy :)
<persia> The council has been having difficulties with the processing of applications in a timely manner.  Alternate means of processing applications, or alternate methods of scheduling such processing have been the topic of discussion at the last few MOTU Council meetings.
<mdz> persia: is there usually a single person who shepherds the applications through?
<dholbach> mdz: yes, I'm around
<nixternal> dholbach gets on us to wake us up when we are busy elsewhere
<nixternal> :)
<nixternal> perfect timing
<mdz> I don't want to derail the meeting too much; let's take this part of the discussion to email.  if there's anything we (TB) can do to help keep the process working smoothly, let me know
<persia> mdz, Not really.  It's essentially been left to each council member to vote in their own time.  While this has worked in the past, as of late this voting has not happened in a timely manner (since roughly June, with apachelogger being the worst example)
<mdz> Keybuk: any questions for apachelogger?
<Keybuk> no, mine have been answered
<mdz> ok, I've more or less finished reviewing the email record
<mdz> [VOTE] ubuntu-core-dev application for Harald Sitter
<MootBot> Please vote on:  ubuntu-core-dev application for Harald Sitter.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<mdz> +1 based on sponsor and MC feedback
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Keybuk> +1 also
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<mdz> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 2
<mdz> apachelogger: congratulations and thank you
<apachelogger> \o/
<apachelogger> Thanks everyone :)
<nixternal> YAY \O/ congrats apachelogger!!!
<vorian> yay apachelogger! Congrats!!!
<dholbach> congratulations apachelogger
<nixternal> thanks mdz and Keybuk, the Kubuntu community really needed this!
<ogra> congrats apachelogger
<stgraber> congratz apachelogger
<mdz> [TOPIC] Limited upload rights for Romain Francoise
<MootBot> New Topic:  Limited upload rights for Romain Francoise
<ScottK> apachelogger: Congrats
<mdz> siretart asked the TB to consider granting upload privileges to Romain  Francoise for emacs-snapshot
<mdz> which is in universe
<ogra> mdz, no stgraber on the agenda ?
<ogra> (just stroke me... when i looked at it)
<mdz> Romain is a Debian developer and maintains emacs-snapshot there, as well as a handful of other packages
<mdz> ogra: you can add it but we're already short on time
<siretart> correction: romain is emacs upstream, and maintains emacs-snapshot outside of debian
<ogra> mdz, well, next meeting would be a bit pointless for intrepid fixes, i'll add it
<siretart> we use his package unmodified in ubuntu, though
<mdz> siretart: oh, I noticed him in Original-Maintainer and assumed
<Keybuk> where is his package nominally uploaded to?
<mdz> siretart: is emacs-snapshot in Debian? (and if not, why not?)
<ogra> added
<mdz> dholbach: I'd like to hear from the MOTU council about granting of upload rights for universe packages, as we haven't done this before
<siretart> mdz: emacs-snapshot used to be in debian, but he asked to remove it because he does not agree to the GR prohibiting GFDLed documents in 'main'
<mdz> dholbach: we've only granted it for select main packages for MOTUs
<siretart> since then he publishes his packages on http://emacs.orebokech.com/ and in the ~ubuntu-elisp PPA
<dholbach> mdz: I did not review Romain's activity in Ubuntu yet
<dholbach> siretart: I guess you sponsored some of his uploads?
<siretart> he is still a DD, though.
<mdz> dholbach: what do you think of the general idea_
<siretart> dholbach: well, that 'emacs-snapshot' package. additionally, that packaging is the basis for our 'emacs22' package.
<dholbach> mdz: I think it makes sense and in the future we need a good process for people who know about packaging, demonstrated that they take good care of a small subset of packages
<mdz> siretart: any particular reason why Romain should not apply for MOTU instead?
<dholbach> mdz: as I guess with ArchiveReorg we will see it more often
<mdz> siretart: (btw is he here?)
<dholbach> mdz: we only had one case up until now where we approved an "upstream MOTU"
<siretart> he is 'ore' on irc
<dholbach> siretart: OK
<siretart> mdz: AFAIUI, ore does not run any ubuntu machines. he tests the emacs-snapshot package in a kvm instance though. his package works fairly well in ubuntu and he responds to bug reports pretty fast
<mdz> I need to leave in about 5 minutes
<mdz> I think this is not a simple case to consider and we need to discuss more with the MOTU council
<ogra> :(
<siretart> :(
<mdz> siretart: would you mind if we take this to email?
<dholbach> mdz: it's a bit harder to demonstrate your skills when you just work on one package - so I guess that a few words from sponsors, a good track record of maintaining the package (bug work, etc) and a few reviews of changes to the packaging should be enough
<siretart> mdz: no problem. the thread is already going on for some weeks now, though ;)
<Keybuk> the MOTU process is more than just a gate of quality
<Keybuk> it also introduces the prospective maintainer to our procedures, and our community
<siretart> Keybuk: he is not applying for MOTU, though.
<mdz> siretart: I realize. I'll keep it on the agenda for the next meeting in case it doesn't get resolved by email
<siretart> mdz: OK
<Keybuk> it occurs to me that to upload a single package, someone still needs to go through the general process of MOTU application
<Keybuk> this is quite a different case from granting an existing MOTU further rights
<mdz> [AGREED] defer decision due to time constraints, and continue the conversation in email (or at the next meeting)
<MootBot> AGREED received:  defer decision due to time constraints, and continue the conversation in email (or at the next meeting)
<mdz> [TOPIC] cdrtools update
<MootBot> New Topic:  cdrtools update
<mdz> a quick update here
<siretart> Keybuk: I thought I remembered some talk about that the last UDS that we would consider this case via package ACLs
<mdz> sabdfl and I spoke with Eben Moglen, and he agreed that we can acknowledge Joerg's interpretation if he states it explicitly in terms of the license which applies to the binaries
<Keybuk> siretart: discussions at UDS were about components-sized ACLs, not individual packages
<mdz> I'm told that Eben and Joerg spoke after that, and that the discussion was positive, but have not heard back from Eben yet
<siretart> Keybuk: then I misunderstood. OK
 * ScottK remembers both.
<siretart> mdz: I have a quick update on that
<mdz> siretart: go ahead
<siretart> mdz: in the meantime, I spoke with joerg on IRC and asked him about the license of the binaries
<siretart> mdz: he replied to me that he does not believe that this was legally possible (yes, I'm confused as well here), but he has no problems to distribute the binaries under GPL if that was possible
<mdz> siretart: that sort of ambiguous answer is not entirely unexpected ;-)
<siretart> mdz: he generally asked me for patches to cdrecord/LICENSE to improve the wording. I didn't get to that yet, help from others (espc native speakers) very welcome here!
<mdz> we're expecting to receive a summary from Eben, and will take next steps based on that
<mdz> siretart: if you can forward that additional info from joerg to technical-board@ that would be helpful
<siretart> mdz: OK, will do.
<mdz> I do need to go now unfortunately, I only have an hour scheduled for this meeting and usually it is much shorter :-)
<mdz> it's good to see so much activity though
<mdz> we will pick up where we left off next time
<mdz> thanks, all
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:01.
<ogra> mdz, any way that the stgraber approval can be done by mail ?
<ogra> makr already replied i see
<Keybuk> siretart: doesn't distributing the binaries under the GPL mean that nobody could redistribute them?  since they would be required to honour the part of the GPL about accompanying source, which specifies the licence of that source must be GPL?
<mdz> ogra: I haven't looked at the specifics, but probably yes
<ogra> mdz, i would like to get that approved for intrepid, next TB is a bit late for that
 * mathiaz waves at the server team members
<zul> hello
<Koon> o/
<sommer> hey all
<siretart> Keybuk: that's excatly the point of that discussion. Joerg argues that the GPL does not exactly require the complete source to be under GPL, but to be compliant with the sections 1 and 2 of the GPL
<siretart> Keybuk: and the cdrtools source code indeed fulfill that requirement
<siretart> Keybuk: and AFAIUI, moglen seems to agree here
<Keybuk> but section 1 uses the term "this License" ? :)
<Keybuk> as does section 2
<mathiaz> all right - let's get the Server Team meeting rolling.
<siretart> Keybuk: lets move to #ubuntu-devel
<mathiaz> siretart: thanks :)
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:06. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's amazing agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<kirkland> o/
<mathiaz> Last meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080930
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<mathiaz> sommer: what's the state of the virtualization sections?
<sommer> mathiaz: should be good to go
<sommer> mathiaz: we merged the vmbuilder and jeos sections, based on nijaba's wiki guidle
 * sommer guide
<nijaba> o/
<sommer> so I think we got in all the new/updated content for intrepid
<mathiaz> zul: did you get a chance to review the new virtualization section?
<zul> mathiaz: no I havent
<mathiaz> sommer: is there some time to update the support section?
<sommer> mathiaz: we can ask for a freeze exception
<mathiaz> sommer: I can prepare a branch with the update.
<mathiaz> sommer: Do you know how well the serverguide is translated?
<zul> mathiaz: hopefully today
<sommer> mathiaz: I don't think I can really judge that... only speaking english
<sommer> mathiaz: I think there was a message this morning about some issues with the process though
<mathiaz> sommer: right - I saw some messages on ubuntu-doc@
<sommer> mathiaz: so I think there's a good chance of getting an exception
<mathiaz> sommer: ok - so I'll prepare a branch
<mathiaz> sommer: and send it to you
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to update the support section
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to update the support section
<sommer> mathiaz: cool, thanks
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu vm builder
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu vm builder
<mathiaz> nijaba: what's the state of the tutorial update?
<nijaba> mathiaz: it is finished, but we have a couple bugs to fix in vmbuilder for it to completely work
<mathiaz> nijaba: have you filed bugs?
<nijaba> mathiaz: yep, do you want the bug #?
<mathiaz> nijaba: nope
<mathiaz> nijaba: are they targeted for intrepid?
<nijaba> mathiaz: not yet, but they could/should
<mathiaz> nijaba: are these bugs showstoppers or minor annoyance?
<nijaba> mathiaz: not show stopper; iti is just the -c option that does not work
<nijaba> -c: specify a configuration file other thant the default
<mathiaz> nijaba: ok. That's not so bad then.
<mathiaz> nijaba: anything else you've noticed during your testing of vm-builder?
<nijaba> mathiaz: not that have not been fixed already
<RoAkSoAx> sommer: i could help judging the translation of spanish server guide
<mathiaz> nijaba: ok thanks.
<mathiaz> while we're on the topic of virtualization
<sommer> RoAkSoAx: cool it's all done through launch pad
<mathiaz> kirkland: have you seen anything important in kvm/libvirt?
<kirkland> mathiaz: it seems to be working better than it ever has in intrepid
<kirkland> mathiaz: haven't seen any showstopping bugs opened since i've been watching the queue (2 weeks) backing up soren
<mathiaz> kirkland: do you know if virtio devices are supported in intrepid?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i fixed a bunch, and sent a bunch upstream, against kvm and virt-manager
<kirkland> mathiaz: i don't think so
<mathiaz> kirkland: I remember we had to pull something out related to virtio just before hardy was released.
<mathiaz> jdstrand: do you remember the issue with virtio in hardy?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm sorry, i don't know much about virtio ... i can come up to speed, if necessary
<RoAkSoAx> sommer: rosetta?
<mathiaz> IIRC it was related to block devices
<sommer> RoAkSoAx: yes
<jdstrand> IIRC virtio was pulled for block devices, bit the virtnet (?) is still in place
<jdstrand> s/bit/but/
<RoAkSoAx> sommer: ok, i will take a look at it during this week :)
<zul> mathiaz: it was slow when we were testing the isos with encrypted disks wasnt it?
<mathiaz> right - virtnet is working (but not during installer)
<mathiaz> zul: it would lock up the guest IIRC
<zul> mathiaz: yes
<mathiaz> zul: or at least the installation would be verrryyy slow
<zul> mathiaz: have you seen that in intrepid yet?
<mathiaz> zul: not yet.
<mathiaz> but my guests are running with an ide bus instead of virtio bus
<mathiaz> and I'm still running on a hardy host.
<mathiaz> kirkland: you may wanna test that on an intrepid host
<kirkland> mathiaz: what's that?
<kirkland> mathiaz: "that" .. ?
<mathiaz> kirkland: running guests with a virtio disk instead of an ide bus
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'll show you after the meeting how to do that.
<kirkland> mathiaz: cool, thanks
<mathiaz> anything else related to virtualization in intrepid?
<kirkland> mathiaz: not from me
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on then
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Survey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Survey
<mathiaz> kirkland: thanks for the post
<mathiaz> nijaba: still going well?
<nijaba> mathiaz: yes, great !
<nijaba> we passed the 3000 responses
<mathiaz> nijaba: has the launch plan been completed?
<mathiaz> nijaba: you mentionned last week that some items were left
<nijaba> mathiaz: yes it has
<kirkland>  |^o
<mathiaz> nijaba: great.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] DRBD
<MootBot> New Topic:  DRBD
<mathiaz> ivoks has been working on this issue and found the problem.
<mathiaz> it was a change in the kernel id.
<zul> ivoks is here? if not...ffe has been asked havent followed up on it yet
<mathiaz> so we don't need to upgrade the driver and the userspace tools to a new rc version.
<zul> no
<mathiaz> zul: have you filed the FFe?
<zul> mathiaz: we need to upgrade the userspace tools  to 8.2.6
<mathiaz> zul: ah ok.
<mathiaz> zul: I though we just had to change the id in 8.0.12.
<zul> no I talked to ivoks about this yesterday and the userspace and kernel has to be the same
<zul> hi ivoks
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> (sorry for being late; business)
<mathiaz> ivoks: just in time ! we were talking about drbd
<mathiaz> ivoks: thanks for the good work on that one.
<ivoks> all right
<ivoks> no problem
<ivoks> i don't know if zul talked about the problem
<ivoks> and if you are interested, i could give you a quick explanation
<mathiaz> ivoks: I mentionned the kernel id thing
<zul> ivoks: I did the basics but if you want to go more in depth be my guest
<mathiaz> ivoks: well - you don't have to. The most important thing is that we have solution
<ivoks> only if others need to know :) bottom line is that we should keep our eyes on it, since this could happen again (drbd isn't upstream yet, so they aren't in sync)
<mathiaz> ivoks: the tools still have to be updated to 8.2.6?
<ivoks> mathiaz: yes
<mathiaz> and the FFe has been filed.
<ivoks> (drbd isn't in kernel)
<mathiaz> ivoks: you mean in the upstream kernel. The Ubuntu kernel team adds it to the ubuntu kernel?
<ivoks> mathiaz: correct
<mathiaz> ivoks: ok - and whenever they do that they forget to update the userspace tools?
<ivoks> mathiaz: basicaly, kernel team didn't do anything; drbd's ID was taken by framebuffer module in linus's tree
<ivoks> mathiaz: i've told drbd upstream to watch out for that; they weren't aware this happened
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - but IIRC there was also a mismatch during the hardy cycle
<zul> nope
<ivoks> mathiaz: no, drbd in hardy and in upstream have same ID
<ivoks> there wasn't that frame buffer module :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: but it seems that there isn't a strict dependency between the version in the kernel and the userspace tool
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - I'm talking about the version of the kernel module and the user space tools
<ivoks> mathiaz: yes, both for version of drbd and ID number
<mathiaz> ivoks: not that very specific problem.
<ivoks> drbd kernel and drbd userspace must be of same version
<ivoks> since tools are built with kernel headers
<mathiaz> ivoks: ok - IIRC it wasn't the case at some point in the hardy release cycle.
<ivoks> there is one problem in package we should work on for intrepid+1
<mathiaz> ivoks: and since the kernel team pulls in a new version of drbd there should be a way to sync the userspace tools too
<ivoks> mathiaz: right... current problem is that userspace tools come with kernel module source, and build against it
<zul> mathiaz: we should probably look at dkms for packagin in intrepid+1
<ivoks> mathiaz: we should make that userspace build against our kernel headers
<mathiaz> right - it seems that this topic should be discussed with the kernel team.
<ivoks> anyway, for intrepid everything is ok if new userspace is uploaded
<mathiaz> ivoks: great!
<mathiaz> ivoks: we'll discuss the state of DRBD for jaunty during the UDS with the kernel team then.
<ivoks> no need to stall the meating with this
<ivoks> mathiaz: well... i hope so :D
<mathiaz> ok - That's all I had from last week's meeting.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
<mathiaz> anyone?
<ivoks> me, again :)
<ivoks> fwiw if you remember, last time i mentioned that bacula thing
<mathiaz> ivoks: I'm not sure what you refering to
<ivoks> reporter reported that patched version fixed the thing, so if anyone is interested in pushing this update in hardy, be my guest :)
<ivoks> mathiaz: just a sec
<zul> ivoks: is it in your ppa?
<ivoks> zul: yes
<mathiaz> ivoks: it's related to a -bacula-postgres segfaulting right?
<zul> ivoks: cool Ill have a look then
<ivoks> bug #227613
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227613 in bacula "[SRU] SIGSEGV in bacula-fd" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227613
<ivoks> mathiaz: it's related to at least 3 bugs
<mathiaz> [ACTION] zul to look into SRUing bacula sigsegv - bug 227613
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to look into SRUing bacula sigsegv - bug 227613
<mathiaz> ivoks: anything else relatedt to bacula?
<ivoks> atm no
<mathiaz> ivoks: have you got a chance to test bacula in intrepid?
<ivoks> mathiaz: not yet, but i will
<ivoks> mathiaz: my plan is to test bacula and red hat cluster suite
<ivoks> drbd is ok (with new update)
<mathiaz> ivoks: great - thanks.
<mathiaz> Anything else to add?
<mathiaz> There isn't any new Freeze taking effect this week
<mathiaz> so we're still in FeatureFreeze, UserInterfaceFreeze and DocumentationFreeze
<mathiaz> Next week will be KernelFreeze
<mathiaz> so testing, testing and testing is welcome
<mathiaz> on all sort of hardware you can have access to
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week, same time, same place?
<Koon> same (modified) time ?
<nealmcb> modified?
<ivoks> modified?
<mathiaz> 15:00 UTC
<Koon> ignore me
<nealmcb> I guess in some countries daylight time is happening soon
<ivoks>  /ignore Koon
<ivoks> well, UTC is UTC
 * Koon just realized this meeting occured at the usual time.
<nealmcb> and vice versa....
<nealmcb> so pay attention....
<mathiaz> all right - same place same time next week
<sommer> coolio
<ivoks> ok
<mathiaz> Koon: and we'll unmodify the not-modified schedule of this meeting for you
 * Koon hugs mathiaz
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:54.
 * nealmcb looks for a list of upcoming shifts of local time vs UTC around the world....
<persia> There's a bunch of them soon, but UTC is nice and reliable.
<sommer> meeting over?
<ivoks> yes, 6 minutes ago
<sommer> oh, missed that :-)
<keffie_jayx> boredandblogging, ping?
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council | 07 Oct 21:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Arabic | 15 Oct 04:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Community
<keffie_jayx> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 07 2008, 16:30:47 - Next meeting: LoCo Council in 2 hours 29 minutes
<juliux> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council | 07 Oct 21:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Arabic | 15 Oct 04:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Community
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubottu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 07 Oct 21:00: LoCo Council | 07 Oct 23:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Arabic | 15 Oct 06:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 17 Oct 21:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 15:00: Xubuntu Community
<keffie_jayx> juliux, stll two hours.. though fridge said 6 hours ... six hours ago
<juliux> keffie_jayx: hehe
<keffie_jayx> :D
<juliux> i hope we will have a quorum today
<keffie_jayx> juliux, I am hrer an so is nick
<juliux> yeah
<keffie_jayx> we oshould be good to go
<juliux> nick is also here
<keffie_jayx> I will be available on my mobile
<juliux> so we are on the safe side
<keffie_jayx> and it is pretty reliable
<keffie_jayx> my wiife is getting her secound ecogram for our new baby and I am still here for this meeting :
<keffie_jayx> :D
<juliux> whhhoooo
<keffie_jayx> yeah pretty cool
<ogra> note that the bot is apparently broken
<_persia> The bot's not that broken, just confused about recurrence.
<juliux> hey ogra
<keffie_jayx> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 07 2008, 16:48:04 - Next meeting: LoCo Council in 2 hours 11 minutes
<boredandblogging> keffie_jayx: hola
<sbc> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 07 2008, 18:15:59 - Next meeting: LoCo Council in 44 minutes
<juliux> popey: ping;)
<effie_jayx> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 07 2008, 18:26:33 - Next meeting: LoCo Council in 33 minutes
<emgent> hello.
 * janc_EEE_900 is here too
<effie_jayx> Cool
<effie_jayx> Nick will be a bit late since he is in another meeting
<effie_jayx>  
<juliux> hi janc_EEE_900
<juliux> janc_EEE_900: are you sure you can type fast enough on a eee pc?
<janc_EEE_900> :-)
<juliux> nxvl: around?
<nxvl> juliux: yup
<juliux> cool
<juliux> china team around?
<juliux> greece team around?
<alefteris> juliux, we are here :)
<juliux> alefteris: we == ? ;)
<alefteris> the greek team I mean
<juliux> thx
<Mamarok> hi juliux :)
<juliux> somebody from romania?
<juliux> hi Mamarok
<DoruHush> yes we are
<juliux> DoruHush: thxs
<juliux> hungary team also?
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: LoCo Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Oct 21:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Arabic | 15 Oct 04:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Community
<phanatic> juliux: yep
<juliux> looks like it will be a good meeting today;)
<elendil> hi
<effie_jayx> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 07 2008, 18:55:20 - Current meeting: LoCo Council
<nxvl> effie_jayx: are you going to latinoware?
<effie_jayx> Ok we are set then
<effie_jayx> No :(
<nxvl> :(
<effie_jayx> Sounds like fun
<nxvl> effie_jayx: for next year we are going to organize "encuentro ubuntu" in latinoware, so schedule it in your agenda
<effie_jayx> Ok sound like me :-)
<popey> moo
 * nxvl waves
<effie_jayx> juliux, ready?
<juliux> effie_jayx: jip
<effie_jayx> Let's go
<juliux> ok effie_jayx is your toastmaster for today;)
<popey> boredandblogging: about?
<juliux> phanatic: he is a few minutes late, he has reallife meeting
<juliux> popey: he is a few minutes late, he has reallife meeting
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda
<popey> ok, loco approvals first, is anyone from ubuntu-cn here?
<nxvl> ping me when it's my turn please i won't we following the full meeting
<effie_jayx> They expressed difficulty in showing for todays meeting i belive
<juliux> nxvl: ok
<nxvl> juliux: thank you
<popey> ok, well based on what they have on their application.. do we make a decision?
<juliux> i think they should be around
<juliux> for some questions;)
<effie_jayx> I believe the china team has been an active one
<popey> ok, well shall we come up with some questions for them on the mailing list and get them to reply?
<popey> via email
<popey> There's clearly been a LOT of effort made by the ubuntu-cn team
<effie_jayx> Sounds cool to of
<juliux> lets send them a mail and everything is fine
<effie_jayx> I agree
<popey> given how much they appear to have done I dont think it's fair for us to force someone in a timezone waaaay over there ---> to come to the meeting.. is that fair?
<popey> ok, cool
<janc_EEE_900> we can have a meeting at another time maybe?
<juliux> there where here last week so it is fair enough to send them a mail
<popey> ok, shall we move on? Greece?
<juliux> yes greece time;)
<glogiotatidis> ok we are here
<glogiotatidis> hi
<alefteris> yei!!
<rizitis> hi
<popey> hi guys!
<effie_jayx> I believe face value is important. And we should make an effort too. Maybe one or two from the council can attest things
<juliux> hi greece team;)
<popey> You have a nice busy community there
<effie_jayx> Hello greece
<glogiotatidis> popey, thnx. The team is growing fast
<popey> do you have anything planned for a release party? (or parties) :)
<glogiotatidis> yes we are already planning parties at Athens (the capital)
<glogiotatidis> and Thessaloniki (another major city in Greece)
<popey> two parties, what's the plan?
<glogiotatidis> as we did for the hardy release
<popey> drinking or installing? :)
<popey> or both
<juliux> making picutres;)
<glogiotatidis> well the previous parties where drinking mostly
<glogiotatidis> :)
<popey> it happens
<popey> what have you done to promote the party?
<effie_jayx> What other thing are you guys working on
<alefteris> popey, mosty there is discusion on the forum right now, havent started publising the parties yet
<glogiotatidis> popey, and there is also a party planned at Chania (sourthern greece)
<effie_jayx> Any challenges on your freshenad so far?
<alefteris> effie_jayx, the is an online magazine planed to be release together with intrepid
<effie_jayx> *Experience.
<alefteris> effie_jayx, called "ubuntiÏÏÎ±" :)
 * c00l2sv is up for Romania
<effie_jayx> Sounds fantastic :-)
<DoruHush> ï»¿ ubuntu-ro
<manuelciosici> here for ubuntu-ro
<juliux> do you done some marketing things like posters or flyers?
 * alex3f is here for ubuntu-ro too
<DoruHush> http://www.ubuntu.ro/node/98
<janc_EEE_900> juliux: they apparently did a booklet for SFD
<DoruHush> for install fest Ubuntu 8.04
<alex3f> http://rosedu.org/~alexef/uif/uifposterv2.jpg actually
<effie_jayx> Very active in deed
<glogiotatidis> juliux, we made flyers for SFD
<janc_EEE_900> and ubuntu-ro, please wait your turn  :)
<manuelciosici> also http://wiki.ubuntu.ro/MaterialePrezentari
<rizitis> http://wiki.ubuntu-gr.org/SFD2008/
<juliux> perhaps you can share them later via the spreadubuntu diy site;)
<manuelciosici> sorry for previous
<glogiotatidis> juliux, ok that sounds nice
<juliux> glogiotatidis: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Projects/SpreadUbuntu/diy
<juliux> it is still underconstruction
<nxvl> i didn't knew about that page
<popey> based on a consistent and growing community, and outreach to other non-ubuntu communities, +1 from me
<boredandblogging> sorry
<boredandblogging> I'm back
<janc_EEE_900> +1 from me to
<juliux> also +1 from me
<effie_jayx> Plus one for of too
<juliux> looks like your are doing greate work and also nice reallife getogethers;)
<glogiotatidis> juliux, ok  thnx. I will keep everyone informed about that
<alefteris> thank you guys :)
<glogiotatidis> thanks !
<popey> keep up the good work!
<popey> and enjoy the parties :)
<glogiotatidis> popey, thanks, we will post photos :)
<juliux> glogiotatidis: add your parties to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseParties#Europe
<glogiotatidis> juliux, when everything is set we will
<juliux> glogiotatidis: cool
<popey> ROMANIA!
 * fdd is up for ro.
<alex3f> here we are :D:D
<manuelciosici> here
<glogiotatidis> thanks everybody and greetings from greece
<fdd> we have many enthusiasts around here.
<fdd> greetings from romania!
<popey> I see you guys are planning to localise the desktop course, how much of that is done, if any?
<DoruHush> almost done
<DoruHush> only 2 chapters renmayning
<janc_EEE_900> cool
<popey> wow!
 * popey helped write a tiny tiny bit of that :)
<popey> how many people are involved in that piece of work?
<DoruHush> some probles with compilation but we will overcome those
<DoruHush> mainly 4
<boredandblogging> as the Romanian Team already approached schools?
<manuelciosici> yes
<DoruHush> without popye  :-D
<manuelciosici> I have made a couple of presentations is my school
<bvali> hello everybody
<manuelciosici> and also convinced some of the teachers to agree to a few ubuntu running pcs
<fdd> yes, presentations/installations in schools.
<c00l2sv> our school opened on the 1st of Oct
<bvali> i have helped classmates to install ubuntu
<c00l2sv> so on that day at my faculty at Comp. Science
<c00l2sv> we distributed about 70 flyers
<juliux> c00l2sv: do you have these flyer online?
<alex3f> i'm spreading word about ubuntu at my faculty
<c00l2sv> http://www.softwareliber.ro/2008/09/29/promovare-gsl-la-deschiderile-de-la-faculta%c8%9bi/
<c00l2sv> juliux, http://www.softwareliber.ro/2008/09/29/promovare-gsl-la-deschiderile-de-la-faculta%c8%9bi/
<manuelciosici> and arlug is preparring an mirror for ubuntu (current tests on mirror.arlug.ro)
<popey> is there anything in particular you do when new people join?
<c00l2sv> popey, well we're holding parties almost every time we know there comming new peoples
<manuelciosici> i guess that depends of the region of the country, in my town we invite them to beerfests and offer support for them
<c00l2sv> we're going offline to pubs
<c00l2sv> or something like that
<juliux> btw add your release parties  to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseParties#Europe so other people know aobut it
<DoruHush> we guide them to join first the localisation team
<popey> do many people take part in localisation?
<c00l2sv> juliux, we're planning a release party so far, and we're not fully decided when it is going to be held
<boredandblogging> it seems like the Romanian team has done lots of work for 8.04
<juliux> c00l2sv: ok
<DoruHush> if they whant to help with the  Ubuntu localization
<boredandblogging> there is not much listed for 7.10, is there any reason for that
<c00l2sv> popey, not, sure, we cleaned a bit the translators group on launchpad recently
<DoruHush> ï»¿popey:  not so many as we wish, that,s why we ask them to join the team
<alex3f> we focused on this year activity
<DoruHush> and spread the word
<manuelciosici> popey: I can't give you exact numbers but as far as i know about 20-30 people are involved in localisation
<fdd> yes, the most is done for hardy.
<popey> ok
<boredandblogging> thats fine, I was just curious
<fdd> something like that.
<fdd> ok.
<DoruHush> we do have an Ubuntu flavor
<manuelciosici> there was also a floss camp this summer, I don't think it is listed anywhere in the activities
<boredandblogging> +1 from me
<DoruHush> http://kiwilinux.org/
<juliux> looks like you were very active
<janc_EEE_900> manuelciosici: 20-30 is pretty good, if they are all doing good translations
<juliux> so from me +1
<fdd> yes, kiwilinux. ro/hu oriented distro.
<DoruHush> based on Ubuntu 8.04.1 at this time
<alex3f> actually, suggestions come from more than 30 people,
<juliux> and keep on your good work on releaseparties;)
<popey> +1 from me too
<janc_EEE_900> +1 from me too
<c00l2sv> popey, here are some pics from a party I held supported by Ubuntu tean
<c00l2sv> http://stas.nerd.ro/blog/index.php/photos/?album=MeetingInC7
<fdd> thanks, juliux.
<manuelciosici> janc_EEE_900: not all the time, but that is why the localisation team approves the translations
<DoruHush> thank you all
<c00l2sv> in a week, there's gonna be held one more one like that
<fdd> thank you.
<fdd> yes, sfd also.
<popey> nice and busy c00l2sv !
<c00l2sv> popey, thats what we like to do :)
<c00l2sv> thx
<juliux> and share your experiences on the loco contact list;)
<boredandblogging> Hungary?
<phanatic> boredandblogging: we're here
<sianis> I'am here
<toros> boredandblogging: ready
<juliux> how often you have translation sprints? how are your experiences with that?
<phanatic> juliux: approximately bi-monthly.
<juliux> puhhh
<kelemengabor> juliux: 2-3 months
<popey> impressive
<kelemengabor> preferably before releases :)
<popey> does it help?
<phanatic> unfortunately the number of active participants is decreasing
<kelemengabor> experience is mixed tough
<juliux> how many people attend this sprints?
<phanatic> popey: it helps a lot with documentations
<phanatic> juliux: around 10
<phanatic> these are IRL sprints lasting a whole weekend
<popey> are people leaving the team or just less people turning up for events?
<phanatic> popey: the latter
<effie_jayx> Is anything being done to promote participation?
<kelemengabor> phanatic: is i18n your job or mine? :P
<kelemengabor> well, we decided that IRL meetings are not that good idea
<juliux> IRL meetings?
<janc_EEE_900> kelemengabor: do you have people at home join in with the sprints?
<kelemengabor> sprints, I mean
<juliux> kelemengabor: what does irl means?
<boredandblogging> in real life
<kelemengabor> janc_EEE_900: yes, we allow anybody to join via irc
<kelemengabor> that was pushed to the background though
<kelemengabor> last time, we got criticism that it's hard to attend for people living far from the capital city
<popey> yeah, that affects a lot of teams
<kelemengabor> so we will try to make only irc sprints in the future
<kelemengabor> and promote it a lot better
<boredandblogging> is it possible to do the sprints in different cities?
<janc_EEE_900> you can also organise sprints in different cities, and have other people join in through IRC / etc.
<janc_EEE_900> hehe
<boredandblogging> :-)
<effie_jayx> I think promoting irc is good due to the interesting amount of ubuntu work going on around the globe
<kelemengabor> well, we could try that too, but I'm skeptical
<toros> boredandblogging: I don't think, many people would come to another cities... Hungary is _very_ capital-centric
<janc_EEE_900> or combine work & fun: sprint + beer event in the evening
<popey> have you had to deal with much in the way of vonflict in the loco team?
<popey> er
<nxvl> same in Peru, but we make smaller meetings in non-capital cities
<popey> conflict
<kelemengabor> toros: on the other hand, it can't be worse than it is now
<toros> janc_EEE_900: we do it that way... :)
<janc_EEE_900> hehe
<toros> after the translation sprint, we go straight to have dinner and some beer :)
<phanatic> popey: you mean conflicts inside the team?
<popey> yes
<popey> within your community - differences of opinion for example
<toros> thera aren't many conflicts
<phanatic> popey: not really. we have to deal with moderation issues mostly (they may cause conflicts) on forums and mailing lists
<phanatic> but thats fairly uncommon fortunately
<popey> ok, well based on the past and future events, and your consistent approach, +1 from me
<janc_EEE_900> good moderators usually don't have a lot of work...   ;)
<janc_EEE_900> +1 for ubuntu-hu from me
<toros> there were some conflicts at the forum some months ago - so we "hired" moderators from the community. And it worked, because they deal with the conflicts between ppl...
<popey> nice
<toros> they not just delete inapropiate posts, but help in resolving conflicts
<juliux> +1 me for ubuntu-hu
<popey> boredandblogging?
<popey> effie_jayx
<effie_jayx> +1 from me
<boredandblogging> +1
<phanatic> thank you guys
<popey> well done, keep up the good work!
<toros> thank you
<gsuveg> thank you
<boredandblogging> congrats
<sianis> thank you
<popey> nxvl: you wanted to talk ?
<boredandblogging> nxvl?
<nxvl> \o/
<nxvl> yup
<nxvl> i send an e-mail to the loco-council list
<nxvl> you might read it
<nxvl> should i also explain it here again?
<juliux> yes pls;)
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> we make a great effort in the LoCo Teams, with the help of the whole community for making the release parties, were we celebrate the release of the new version
<popey> basically nxvl  is suggesting a different date for the meeting?
<nxvl> and a lot of people ask for it
<popey> er party
<nxvl> also we have Canonical sending us a LOT of CD's for the release
<nxvl> for we use to have the parties before (2 weeks or so) of the arrival of ths shipment
<popey> but no way to distribute them as the party was a week ago?
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: LoCo Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Oct 21:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Arabic | 14 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 15 Oct 04:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC
<nxvl> so, what i'm proposing is to move the release parties one week or 2, with the commitment from canonical to send the CD's as soon as they can
<popey> maybe you could take postage stamps (or equivalent) off people at the party - and post them to them when they arrive?
<popey> still have the party on the 30th/1st?
<popey> take "orders" at the party I mean
<nxvl> in peru i think no, we use to wait a couple of weeks
<nxvl> oh, yes
<nxvl> popey: that's what we do
<nxvl> well, almost
<janc_EEE_900> I think people should decide on their own about the party date
<popey> ah :)
<popey> yeah, whatever works for you
<nxvl> we burn a lot of CD's, give them that day
<popey> we (UK) dont even talk about CDs at the party, but we are lucky because we have good internet connectivity
<janc_EEE_900> some teams already have the party 1-2 weeks after the release
<nxvl> and then we start gifting the official CD's in the other local events (which are a lot in this part of the world)
<nxvl> popey: well, in peru there is no much people with a good broadband connection, so we use to download the iso, and then start burning like hell
<nxvl> we use tu burn 50-100 CD's per event
<popey> and that works?
<janc_EEE_900> and some teams make their own CDs, which you can do in a couple of days if you are well-prepared...
<nxvl> but it will be really nice to have the CD's that dates
<nxvl> and i think Canonical marketing team will be interested on the proposal (here i'm assuming)
<popey> yeah, official CDs for the party just isnt going to be possible
<popey> it doesn't go "gold" until about the day before
<popey> i suspect this is a common question
<nxvl> popey: yes i know that they can't burn those CD's until the release date, that's quire obvious
<popey> i dont mind asking Canonical on your behalf though, or alternatively I can pass you the name/email of the right person?
<nxvl> i'm just suggesting to have it as a general rule, if the loco feel like it will we ok for them to make the party 2 weeks after, they do, if not, they don't
<popey> the other issue is that there is no guarantee that they _can_ get the CDs to you by the time you have your party
<nxvl> but to have it as a suggestion somewhere
<nxvl> popey: agreed
<popey> as janc_EEE_900 says, it's up to the individual loco in my opinion
<popey> if you want a party late, have one late
<popey> have one at christmas instead :)
<popey> it doesn't _really_ matter when you have a party
<nxvl> popey: that's why the commitment of canonical is very important in this, and it's nothing we can decide just here and now, but to start discussing about that
<popey> nxvl: I'll mail canonical and cc you on it shall I?
<janc_EEE_900> the Ubuntu-be 8.04 modified release party cd-image went gold on a friday morning and was pressed a couple of days later  ;-)
<nxvl> popey: sounds good to me
<popey> ok, will do tomorrow
<nxvl> also, this is not me asking for something, just sending an idea that can be interesting for the canonical marketing team
<nxvl> and can have some benefits for ubuntu
<juliux> we have pressed ubuntu 6.10 dvds from friday to monday
<juliux> and you realy don't want to do that again
<nxvl> so receive it as just an idea that can be viable or can be not
<juliux> it is a lot of stress
<juliux> and you hvae the risk that there is a major bug on the iso:(
<nxvl> juliux: 6.10 or 8.10?
<janc_EEE_900> juliux: indeed, you have to do all transport yourselves, etc.
<juliux> 6.10
<nxvl> oh! ok
<nxvl> well, that's everything i have
<popey> thanks nxvl !
<juliux> the release was on a thursday, we send the burned iso via ups overnight express to the producer, he pressed the master dvd on friday, produced 2000 dvds over the weekend end send them us on monday, so we had them on wednesday at the linuxworldexpo
<nxvl> i just wanted to discuss this idea with you, since you are the ones to talk
<juliux> so you can do that but it is a lot of work
<juliux> and you need good planing;)
<nxvl> juliux: we go to the event with a laptop and start burning insite
<nxvl> i think i have some picture of that
 * nxvl searches
<juliux> hehe
<juliux> we have done this also
<juliux> and on some events we had a professional cd burnstation
<janc_EEE_900> we do that a lot at computer fairs
<popey> nice
<boredandblogging> very nice!
<nxvl> http://picasaweb.google.com/xander21c/UbuntuPeruEnElFesoli#5131626988519897586
<juliux> the burnstation is cool, it burns and prints the label on the cd
<nxvl> here they are preparing everything
<juliux> and you have to do nothing
<juliux> but the burnstation needs a windows pc:(
<nxvl> http://picasaweb.google.com/xander21c/UbuntuPeruEnElFesoli#5131630050831579906
<nxvl> and that's me burning CD's
<juliux> nxvl: hehe
<janc_EEE_900> and then give the CD-Rs away but ask for a voluntary monetary gift  ;)
<nxvl> all that people were waiting for their CD's
<janc_EEE_900> juliux: build your own burn-station with ubuntu  :)
<nxvl> janc_EEE_900: here the standard is 2x1
<nxvl> janc_EEE_900: you get one burned CD's you give 2 clean CD's
<juliux> janc_EEE_900: give me time;)
<nxvl> with official CD's we don't do that, or when someone give us CD's as sponsorship
<nxvl> then we just gift them
<nxvl> until we are about to get out of CD's
<nxvl> :D
<juliux> so i will levea no the irc
<juliux> cu
<elendil> bye juliux
<emgent> heya
<janc_EEE_900> nxvl: we have to pay for the fair booth too, and some people just give us 10 or even 20 euro, which saves our day for those who take dics for free
<nxvl> janc_EEE_900: yup, that's why we do the 2x1
<effie_jayx> Also consider shipping is all tough
<nxvl> janc_EEE_900: is fair for everyone
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> well, need to go
<nxvl> thank you for your time
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: LoCo Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Oct 21:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Arabic | 14 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 15 Oct 04:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team
<janc_EEE_900> and thanks for your proposal
<emgent> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: LoCo Council 07 Oct 21:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Arabic | 14 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 15 Oct 04:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team
<emgent> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: LoCo Council 07 Oct 21:00: Community Council | 10 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Arabic | 14 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 15 Oct 04:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Community Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Arabic | 14 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 15 Oct 04:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team
<Technoviking> hi all
<Technoviking> is any other CC members here
<Technoviking> We may not be able to get a quorium today, many CC members are travelling and having family emergencies today.
<jussi01> :(
<Technoviking> jussi01: yeah sorry, ping the group and see if we can get 3-4 people
<jussi01> Technoviking: no matter. just sad when people have family emergencies.
<Technoviking> I'm not able to ping anyone else. We will table adgenda to next time.
<Technoviking> Sorry about that, promise this is not a trend, we will be back in two weel:)
<jussi01> Technoviking: see you then!
<cody-somerville> ;]
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-08
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Arabic | 14 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 15 Oct 04:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
<flint_> good morning Matt
<flint_> emgent, bon martina
<james_w> hi all
<evand> good morning/afternoon/evening everyone
<cjwatson> hello
<liw> hi
<ArneGoetje> hi
<calc> hi
<cjwatson> so, we have a few outstanding actions, but mostly I want to talk bugs this meeting
<cjwatson> oh yes, let's get this logged
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions
<cjwatson> * liw to give calc access to desktop machine for OOo builds
<cjwatson> I think that became irrelevant?
<liw> yeah
<cjwatson> calc: remember, by the way, that you should have access to the porting machines in the datacentre
<TheMuso> UUUUUuUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSS/C
<TheMuso> .C
<cjwatson> calc: I was wondering if it would be worth setting up some kind of shared ccache arrangement there so that multiple people could work on OOo without each having to invest substantial local facilities
<TheMuso> OOPS
<cjwatson> * calc to upload 3.0 to PPA by end of week
<cjwatson> I believe that is now done, thank you
<calc> yes that is done
<calc> yea at the time i was still evacuated, but got home later that day (iirc)
<asac> oops. hi!
<calc> but point taken for future use :)
<cjwatson> calc: re backports: yes once 3.0 is the default in jaunty; otherwise it's at the discretion of the backports team
<calc> ok
<cjwatson> doko to extract information about what we lose by targeting Java 1.4 and report back
<cjwatson> doko: did you get anywhere on this?
<doko> yes, on the phone, 10min
<cjwatson> doko: ok, we'll come back to you
<cjwatson> hmm, I forgot roll call :-)
<cjwatson> asac,slangasek: ping?
<cjwatson> bryce seems to be offline
<asac> 17:04 < asac> oops. hi!
<asac> ;)
<cjwatson> oh yes
 * TheMuso wipes his eyes. Yay for changing time differences. :)
<cjwatson> looks like the Portland mafia had a good night last night
<cjwatson> ok, in the meantime, the main thing I'm concerned about at the moment is getting the 8.10 bug list down
<cjwatson> I recently discovered https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+nominations which sort of scared me, although since anyone can nominate I'm not clear on how much I should actually be scared by that
 * asac looks
<james_w> there are a lot of things on there that could be rejected in my opinion
<liw> 556? ouch
<cjwatson> I agree, we need to process it but it's not necessarily a matter of adding that all to the intrepid-targeted list
<cjwatson> anyway, in the meantime we have the milestoned and targeted lists which are quite long enough
<cjwatson> first off, mdz noted that there are quite a few things on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1326 which aren't on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1326; now that's sort of by design, but the list also includes things at high/critical importance which seems rather odd
 * liw adds #278963 to the nominated list
<asac> is there an easy way to see the diff?
<cjwatson> so this is a reminder, if you're using milestones, please consider whether the bug also needs to be targeted to intrepid - it will only be considered release-critical if it's targeted, otherwise the milestone is just for your own organisational reference
<cjwatson> asac: not that I know of ...
<cjwatson> there is a long kernel list; while I'm told they believe they can handle it, if there's anything you feel you can help with there, don't be inhibited
<cjwatson> 268674 seems in-progress, so I've set it accordingly
<cjwatson> calc: I think somebody mentioned 272772 earlier, but it should be a one-liner
<calc> cjwatson: ok
<cjwatson> asac: summary of 259157?
<cjwatson> oops
<calc> i'll be doing a new upload for 2.4.1 in the next day or two
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Milestoned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Milestoned bugs
<asac> cjwatson: i had a short conversation with rtg about driver status yesterday
<cjwatson> calc: ok, please set things to fix-committed in the interim so that we know where you are and can avoid bugging you about things you've done :)
<asac> cjwatson: we decided that he will look into disabling all "hardware-auto-magic" default parameters for intel drivers
<asac> cjwatson: ath8k and ath9k should be in proper shape
<asac> i will get more details from him about what that actually means in real life
<cjwatson> asac: oh, this is more on the "auto-association in the kernel is bad, mkay" story?
<asac> yeah its part of the general discussion we had.
<asac> cjwatson: this particular bug was about madwifi/atheros and orinoco
<asac> madwifi is now supposed to work with wext
<asac> (and not the special madwifi wpasupplicant module)
<cjwatson> yeah, it wasn't clear whose court the ball was in from the bug
<asac> and rtg said taht hsould be ok
<asac> orinoco is most likely not ok. but i am not sure how much effort we should put into these not so widely used cards
<asac> cjwatson: its all kernel. and if kernel team says, that they cannot fix something we might need to try to add tweaks in NM ... which isnt really great and there is no guarantee that we can find tweaks that will help more than they break
<cjwatson> I have an orinoco in my server :) I don't use NM there though ...
<asac> cjwatson: you could at least try. maybe the driver has improved and we dont know :)
<cjwatson> we used to have tweaks for those devices, didn't we? so these are regressions
<asac> cjwatson: are you using wpa and wext?
<asac> cjwatson: well. madwifi tweak isnt possible anymore because wpasupplicant doesnt have that module anymore
<cjwatson> asac: neither, and let's just say that arranging to run Ubuntu desktop + NM on that machine would be ... nontrivial
<cjwatson> err, sorry, I am using wext
<cjwatson> anyway, it's an ancient machine on an old kernel
<asac> cjwatson: orinoco tweaks we could look at. but first i want to see a bug about that being reported
<asac> cjwatson: it was me who filed this bug when i didnt ported the tweaks ;)
<asac> cjwatson: right. i think orinoco is too ancient. if i get complains i will look. but so far i havent seen complains
<cjwatson> I know, I'm just noting in general that regressions are the highest-priority category of bugs
<asac> cjwatson: right. which is why i created this bug ;)
<cjwatson> evand: did anyone get anywhere with 270423?
<evand> cjwatson: not yet.  My attention has been focused elsewhere, but I'll give it another look.
<evand> very odd bug
<cjwatson> asac: do you need help on 247281? the bug doesn't seem to be conclusive
<cjwatson> (on what you need a decision on)
<asac> cjwatson: yeah. i just made the decision. we cannot have the "real" solution in xulrunner. I will add a hook in ubufox that allows admin to overwrite preferences set in ubufox in /etc/
<cjwatson> just made the decision> :-)
<asac> thats as simple as adding a link
<asac> e.g. /etc/firefox-3.0/pref/ubufox.js -> /usr/lib/ubufox/defaults/preferences/000system-pref.js
<cjwatson> hmm, /etc -> /usr symlinks are awkward. It's going to be very tempting for a sysadmin to try to edit that without noticing it's a symlink
<liw> the other way around might work better?
<asac> cjwatson: sorry it was wrong direction ;)
<cjwatson> asac: ah, ok, in that case yes that sounds reasonable
<asac> ;)
<slangasek> ah, so there is a meeting today :/
<cjwatson> evand: 180309 seems to have a patch, although it's risky as it stands because of its use of popen
<cjwatson> ~/wg 23
<cjwatson> (oops)
<evand> Indeed, I talked with the guy from Mandriva a while back about this
<evand> Is it appropriate to add that dependency to m-a when it could potentially be included on the alternate CDs some day?
<cjwatson> evand: it would have to have a fallback
<cjwatson> or argue with the people who decided that localised directory names were a good idea in the first place :)
<liw> "
<liw> Yet another reason why localised directory names are a daft idea and should be abolished, IMO." -- +1
<evand> I suspect the second option would result in a lot of yelling and not any amount of progress :/
<cjwatson> well, they should be localised in the UI not the filesystem
<evand> cjwatson: fallback>  Do you mean recommends and type?
<cjwatson> or words to that effect in C
<evand> err type /usr/bin/xdg-user-dir
<evand> err right
<evand> ok, will do
<cjwatson> i.e. use the unlocalised version if calling xdg-user-dir fails
<cjwatson> it's not ideal but would probably help
<liw> is there no C library to do what xdg-user-dir(1) does?
<cjwatson> ok, those are the major bugs I'm concerned about; does anyone have anything else on their packages that they think should be on the list?
<evand> yes
<cjwatson> evand: ...
<evand> the remaining bits for proper usb disk support> uuids in grub/grub-installer, filtering out the /cdrom device, not writing /cdrom to fstab, and handling the grub install target better in ubiquity
<evand> not all of those have bug numbers yet, but I'll take care of creating a few
<cjwatson> where are we on the UUID work?
<liw> why not write /cdrom to fstab?
<cjwatson> we have to write /cdrom to fstab for apt
<cjwatson> it could be done by uuid if appropriate though
<evand> a bit stuck.  KVM USB disk support is broken, so I'm going to have to switch to real hardware to continue developing this, but I should be able to tackle that today.
<cjwatson> at least some of the uuid bit should be applicable to hard disks too, I expect
<evand> I thought to do it only for USB disks as it would be less risky this late in the cycle
<evand> should I shoot for all disks instead?
<cjwatson> I would suggest that it'll be quicker to develop it for everything, and then relatively easy to limit it to USB disks only if that's what we choose
<evand> noted, will do
<cjwatson> doing it for everything would close about a million bugs
<mvo> if /cdrom and apt is a problem we should discuss this on the next UDS, a hal based helper would probably a good idea to bring some freshness into the cdrom method
<evand> Oh and I've missed 274076 - nominating now
<evand> cjwatson: lol, indeed
<cjwatson> oh, of course we can't use a UUID for /cdrom, I'm on crack
<cjwatson> we may just have to live with that breakage for the moment
<evand> ok
<cjwatson> mvo: yeah, I agree
<cjwatson> apt should definitely autodiscover it
<calc> if we could pull some sort of device id to base the mount point off of it could work, but yea removable media doesn't work too well for that :)
<cjwatson> by-path, I suppose
<calc> probably based off serial number of device or something like that?
<cjwatson> as long as it's of the drive not of the disk
<calc> yea
<mvo> apt-cdrom add/the cdrom method could just try all cdroms via hal
<cjwatson> we could do *that* for USB disks only if by-path in sysfs is reliable
<mvo> "just"
<evand> Can we just not write that line for installation from USB in Intrepid then?  I suspect the lack of functionality will be far less painful than the bug.
<evand> ah
<cjwatson> evand: that sounds feasible too, yes; it's in partman-target
<cjwatson> well, hmm
<cjwatson> no, we'd have to remove it at the end of installation instead - /cdrom is used during installation
<cjwatson> anyway, we're approaching time
<cjwatson> doko: are you off the phone? :)
<doko> version for class formats: 1.4, 1.5, and 1.6 do have different class versions, which means that a class file built with a newer class version format cannot be used by older vm's. free vm's like gij or cacao are usually sloppy about this and continue to work as long as no unknown bytecode is seen. but sun's own older vm's are unhappy with this. now fixed by setting the class target version explicitely when building ant (so that
<doko>  people can build there own code with a non-Ubuntu vm and the ant binary from Ubuntu). So in the short term nothing is broken in Ubuntu when using our default vm (or gij), but in the long term, every package should explicitely set the minimum source and target format and not use the default target format of the vm. imo, it should be enough to do this for jaunty.
<doko> yes
<asac> doko: what was the topic again? drop compilers that can produce 1.4 compatible code or drop VMs that can run that code?
<cjwatson> the question was the bytecode for which our java packages should be built, and how to achieve that
<doko> asac: we had .class files which didn't work with sun-java5 and sun-java-1.4 (aka blackdown)
<cjwatson> since openjdk generates 1.6 by default
<cjwatson> doko: ant itself, or the cdbs ant task?
<doko> changing openjdk-6 isn't an option, upstream doesn't like it
<doko> ant itself
<asac> yeah ant default would make sense ... have we tried howmany build failures we would get (e.g. because a package needs 1.6, but doesnt say so in ant)?
<doko> we maybe could inject the source and target format in the ant task or in cdbs, but again, then will break packages which require 1.5, and not just 1.4.
<cjwatson> doko: ok, I agree with you that that's fine for intrepid, but we should include a mention in the release notes
<cjwatson> doko: could you write up something for Steve?
<doko> ok, will do
<cjwatson> [ACTION] doko to write up release notes item about Java bytecode generation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  doko to write up release notes item about Java bytecode generation
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<cjwatson> do we have any?
<james_w> I've got a couple
<asac> a couple for two minutes ;)
<cjwatson> james_w: go ahead
<james_w> first one is a quick one, if you have any skill at debugging crashes in threaded C code and a spare hour or two please look at the consolekit bug list
<james_w> it's plenty crashy it seems, and when it does the user has to restart their session to get things like suspend and some admin access back
<james_w> second was something jcastro brought up yesterday, though he's not around right now
<james_w> and is something kees brought up a while ago: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-September/026460.html
<bryce> morning
<james_w> we could be releasing Intrepid with regressions in a lot of webcams
<asac> james_w: what are the crashes with most dupes?
<james_w> http://lwn.net/Articles/291036/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://lwn.net/Articles/291036/
<james_w> unfortunately I don't know what needs to happen beyond getting the lib in to main for Intrepid, which is already enough work at this point
<slangasek> james_w: is consolekit really all that crashy still?  It hasn't crashed for me since the last upload
<slangasek> james_w: workaround for this, if you don't know, is to run 'ck-launch-session' again from a terminal
<TheMuso> Yeah a recent ck upload actually allowed the use of sound from the console without being logged tinto GNOME.
<asac> slangasek: i cant tell for sure, but yesterday i debugged NM for a while only to find that the issue came from policykit not liking consolekit having crashed at some point
<cjwatson> kees' comment is (a) library in main (installed by default?), (b) gstreamer preload patches
<james_w> slangasek: no, pitti's done a good job with it, but I still think it could be problematic, and the crashes are beyond my skill.
<asac> slangasek: ck-launch-session will make the XDG_SESSION_COOKIE valid again?
<james_w> slangasek: I thought that only gave you a bash shell in with a ck session, your desktop session doesn't have the correct key to access things.
<james_w> er yeah, cookie, not key
<ogra> erm, what in the installer creates the cdrom lines in fstab ??
<cjwatson> ogra: partman-target
<slangasek> asac, james_w: I don't remember testing NM, but ck-launch-session fixes pulseaudio for me
<james_w> slangasek: ok, thanks
<ogra> apparently mobile users end up with /dev/sdb /dev/cdrom lines in their installs
<ogra> err, /media/cdrom
<cjwatson> ogra: #ubuntu-installer or #ubuntu-devel?
<ogra> cjwatson, well, apparently -installer
<asac> hmm. lets see. anyway, consolekit crashing is really something we should get sorted for release (if its really an issue)
<cjwatson> ck-launch-session really looks like it will set a new XDG_SESSION_COOKIE ...
<asac> someone should monitor the bug list a bit and see if new crashes come in :).
<james_w> asac: bug 269651 is one of the common ones (27 duplicates)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269651 in consolekit "console-kit-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in g_str_hash()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269651
<asac> james_w: does any of the dupes have a way to reproduce?
<cjwatson> I'll put it in the meeting report (and try to get that out in a slightly more timely fashion), but giving it its own thread would probably get it more attention than that
<cjwatson> anyway, feel free to continue discussing it on #-devel
<james_w> asac: that's the main problem, I have yet to see a ck crash with a way to reproduce, except when pitti gave one when fixing one of the crashes
<ogra> whoops
<asac> james_w: is that the daemon that is crashing?
<asac> james_w: lets move to -devel
 * ogra aplologizes, thought i was in -devel 
<cjwatson> ok, we're over time
<cjwatson> anything else?
<TheMuso> Only the desire for more sleep. :p
<james_w> good news?
<cjwatson> I figured we were out of time for that, but feel free
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Good news
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
<james_w> sorry
<TheMuso> heh
<liw> good news: I've done a successful upgrade of my desktop to intrepid, and apart from an fglrx snafu, everything works
<asac> good news: we found another bug affecting the save settings feature of the NM keyfile plugin and fixed it upstream
<james_w> good news (for me at least): since the last meeting I am a MOTU
<TheMuso> Congrats james_w.
<asac> so next upload will hopefully have a working system settings read/write backend (again)
<cjwatson> good news: intrepid now supports dirac video by default
 * asac hugs james_w 
<james_w> good news: Intrepid looks like it will ship with a good sugar stack
<asac> james_w: is the python-xpcom thing part of that stack?
<bryce> congrats james :-)
<james_w> asac: yeah, I think we've got that cracked, morgs is going to test later
<james_w> thanks all
<mvo> liw: you had fglrx installed? did it warn you about it and transition you to something else (u-m)?
<liw> mvo, I did not have it installed
<liw> mvo, well, not in use
<liw> mvo, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24/+bug/278963, but let's discuss that elsewhere
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278963 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 "fglrx kernel module crashes system hard during hardy to intrepid upgrade" [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> all right, I think we're done for now, thanks all
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:16.
<bryce> thanks
<liw> thanks
<TheMuso> thanks
<james_w> thanks all
<evand> thanks
<asac> thanks!
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<slangasek> thanks
<davmor2> Hi all
 * pedro_ waves
 * cgregan waves
<bdmurray> Howdy
<heno> Hey!
<schwuk> hi
<ara> hey!
<sbeattie> hey
 * ogasawara waves
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> Beta is out, thanks to everyone who helped with that!
<heno> [TOPI] Bug fallout from Beta
<heno> dumb bot :/
<heno> [TOPIC] Bug fallout from Beta
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug fallout from Beta
<cody-somerville> heno, you mistyped TOPIC :P
<heno> we need an AI bot thatis resiliant to speling erorrs
 * cody-somerville nods.
<heno> I just wanted to hear what the bug impact from beta has been
<heno> esp on the kernel which is scheduled to freeze next thursday
<heno> ogasawara: btw, how was the bug day yesterday?
<ogasawara> heno: was excellent.  good participation and a lot of bugs got looked at
<heno> ogasawara: are we forming a clear list of things that really should be looked at for intrepid?
<stgraber> hey there
<heno> hey stgraber
<ogasawara> heno: yes, most of those get put on my weekly bug list and I also raise bugs on the kernel team call
<heno> ogasawara: ok, let me know if there are some I should lobby for
<ogasawara> heno: being that kernel freeze is almost upon us, we really need to get as many fixes in asap
<stgraber> heno: I won't be in front of my lappy for the whole meeting, I'd just like to add a topic to the agenda: Having the testcases list updated ASAP
<heno> we should also raise them on Friday's release meeting
<stgraber> heno: I updated a bit the /Cases page with the list of testcases I plan to add and those I need more information to add/update
<ogasawara> heno:  I've also started dropping patches for bugs directly to the kernel team ml and they're getting good response (ie getting applied)
<heno> cgregan: are you still responsible for the MID/mobile cases?
<heno> looks like they need more info
<cgregan> heno: Not really
<heno> davmor2: could you try making a mythubuntu alternate case?
<sbeattie> persia was the one who added them to the page to be added
<cgregan> I will advise people on updating, but that is about it
<davmor2> heno: np's
<heno> davmor2: can you work with persia on adding some MID/mobile cases too?
<cgregan> heno: What info, other than the fact that UME is now a netbook release, do they need?
<davmor2> heno: this is the new version correct?
<persia> Really, the only thing we wanted was the base install cases to start.  The functional cases are not needed at this point.
<heno> sbeattie, bdmurray: can you work together again on preparing for the release meeting? that went well last time
<sbeattie> heno: sure.
<davmor2> persia: when you on-line tomorrow?
<bdmurray> heno: yep
<heno> davmor2: it sounds like just adapting the desktop install cases should be fine
<heno> thanks sbeattie, bdmurray
<persia> davmor2, Probably something like 2:00 - 16:00 UTC, but maybe later.
<heno> ok, that should cover the tracker changes
<heno> [TOPIC] Regression bug triage
<MootBot> New Topic:  Regression bug triage
<davmor2> heno, persia: Okay I'll get the info off you tomorrow and build that up
<heno> a topic for a few weeks, since we started this tracking
<persia> davmor2, OK.  Earlier in your morning is probably better.
<heno> how is that looking now?
<davmor2> persia: np's
<heno> thanks davmor2, persia
<bdmurray> we are making some progress but there are still a lot out there
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Arabic | 14 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 15 Oct 12:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
<heno> right. not surprising as it's our first go at this and we started quite late in the cycle
<bdmurray> I've personally started milestoning some bugs for later that should be looked at for Jaunty
<heno> speaking of such bugs; cr3: could you test and give feedback on bug 271370 please
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271370 in linux "Dell Dimension 9200 stalls when rebooting after installing 20080917" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271370
<sbeattie> bdmurray: what criteria are you using to decide that?
<bdmurray> sbeattie: a bug that isn't really important enough to get resolved for Intrepid but should still be fixed - so usually low or wishlist importance ones
<heno> sbeattie: you were planning on splitting the list up by importance or release, any news on that?
<heno> (not always so easy to pin to a release of course)
<sbeattie> heno: sorry, I haven't gotten to that yet; I'll make it a priority.
<heno> ok, thanks
<heno> sbeattie: np - I know other random things have landed with you as well
<heno> [TOPIC] Upgrade testing in VMs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Upgrade testing in VMs
<heno> I've prepared some kvm images that can be used for upgrade testing
<heno> I'll upload them somewhere soon
<bdmurray> heno: hardy kvms?
<heno> does anyone want to take charge or runing and reporting from those?
<_persia> For upgrade testing, is a piuparts run across main not scheduled already?
<heno> bdmurray: yes, ubuntu, kubuntu 32 and 64 bit
<davmor2> heno: I can start running upgrades on hw tomorrow
<heno> _persia: I'll ask liw if he can do a run - it didn't find much last cycle actually
<davmor2> heno: I can through a smoke test upgard
<davmor2> upgrade page together
<davmor2> even
<heno> 'real' upgrade tests often find a few issues though
<heno> esp with lots of packages installed
<persia> heno, Understood, I'm just thinking both types are useful, so we don't miss a corner case.
<heno> davmor2: that's great, thanks - do you have flashable hardy images?
<heno> persia: agreed
<davmor2> heno: I've got partimages of hardy on both my test boxes
<heno> cool
<cr3> heno: I haven't had time to test the workaround of reboot=b provided by ogasawara, but I could do that as part of my testing this afternoon
<davmor2> heno: I'll only be running in the morning though :)
<heno> cr3: that's great thanks. the kernel freezes next week, so we have limited time to get such fixes in
<heno> davmor2: have you tried using the Virgin package mirror? that may have better speed
<heno> (we have the same ISP which does some strange bw capping in the afternoon)
<sbeattie> hrm, is there a tool that lets one mirror only a part of the archive?
<heno> schwuk: if I get those kvm images to you can you extend them a bit and run them?
<heno> sbeattie: probably ask cjwatson, mvo or liw
<cr3> sbeattie: what part do you mean?
<heno> that's it from me. any other business?
<cr3> heno: I'd like to propose extending wireless testing which is weak at best in my lab :(
<sbeattie> cr3: a consistent subset of packages+dependencies, so that I don't have to try to mirror the entire archive but still have a locally useful cache.
<schwuk> heno: sure
<cr3> sbeattie: apt-cacher?
<davmor2> cr3: what do you propose?
<heno> cr3: as in better coverage in the lab or in the community?
<heno> do we have any suitable tools for wireless stress testing?
<cr3> davmor2: some decent access point capable of supporting A/B/G, WEP/WPA, TKIP/CCK/etc. all at the same time. then, writing automated tests either using wpa-supplicant or using ara's suite for network manager testing
<heno> we already get 'my wireless is broken' reports :)
<cr3> heno: if written properly, this could certainly benefit the community
<heno> ara: have you looked at nm testing yet?
<cr3> heno: what we have is "can you connect to a wireless network" :(
<ara> heno: nop
<ara> I agree, there are too many hw x cases between ethernet hw and ap hw...
<cr3> ara: something to do when you visit :)
<ara> cr3: cool :)
<heno> sounds like a plan
<davmor2> cr3: I can switch mine about and test manually for now and get wifi in for jaunty
<cr3> heno: I'll move this forward in parallel with other stuff
<cr3> davmor2: for my use case, I can't afford to switch mine about like that :(
<heno> cr3: can you draw up a table of modes to test against so davmor2 can test manually in the short term?
<davmor2> cr3: most of my machine are wired so it's not so much of an issue for me :)
<cr3> heno: sure, I'll be drawing up such a table for myself anyways, so I could glagly share it
<davmor2> cr3: ping me with the link dude
<heno> cr3: thanks. somewhere on https://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/ would be good
<heno> ok, let's wrap it up - anything else?
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:43.
<heno> thanks everyone!
<ara> thanks!
<davmor2> bye
<pedro_> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-09
<davidm> OK mobile meeting is about to start
<lool> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:01. The chair is lool.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<lool> Roll call  \o/
<davidm> thanks lool
<StevenK> Yay!
<lool> #topic roll call
<StevenK> Made it, sir!
 * cgregan waves
<lool> [topic] roll call
<MootBot> New Topic:  roll call
 * davidm thinks he is alive, but is not sure.
<lool> cgregan, StevenK, persia, amitk, davidm, ogra, lool
 * lool waves
 * ogra waves
 * StevenK waves
 * davidm Waves
<persia>  
<lool> looking at last week's actions
<lool> none?
<lool> is "#
<lool> cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb (CO) "
<lool> still an action?
<lool> [topic] cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb (CO)
<MootBot> New Topic:  cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb (CO)
<lool> cgregan: woot
<cgregan> lool: I have compared
<cgregan> Gthumb is a bit less resource hungry
<lool> cgregan: Cool, did you write down a summary in a wiki page or email?
<lool> otherwise, fine to do it here
<cgregan> lool: That I still need to do
<lool> cgregan: mpt did a nice empathy/pidgin comparison for the ubuntu desktop's im client
<lool> on wiki.ubuntu.com
<cgregan> yes
<cgregan> I have seen that
<persia> I don't think we need that much detail : I just want some sort of photo viewer in the seed.
<cgregan> it may be a bit intense for my bandwidth right now
<lool> Would be nice to have some much shorter one here as well
<cgregan> I will put together an email
<lool> I just wanted to mention this review because it's very complete, so can be inspirational for yours
<lool> But I don't expect the same level of completeness; he spent a long time on it
<cgregan> YEs
<StevenK> And we already seeded gthumb
<cgregan> :-)
<lool> cgregan: So your recommendation is gthumb?
<StevenK> Thank $DEITY we agree!
<lool> cgregan: Did you try importing photos from a camera or the like?
<cgregan> Well....glad I liked it better then! :-)
<persia> cgregan, Well we could have changed it if your findings differed
<cgregan> lool: I did....but only had one camera
<lool> [agreed] prefer gthumb over f-spot
<MootBot> AGREED received:  prefer gthumb over f-spot
<lool> cgregan: I'd love to have some URL to which I can point people for the choice of photo software, so a wiki page or email to public list is nice; this IRC meeting log could do otherwise
<lool> Anything else to discuss on this topic?  moving on?
<cgregan> I can put up a wiki.
<lool> perfect thanks
<lool> [topic] StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability
<StevenK> They're both done
<lool> StevenK: (muahah)
<StevenK> You even have the links to them
<lool> I do?
<StevenK> I thought I mailed them to you
<persia> Which is the correct agenda?  I'm looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2008/20081009 but it doesn't seem to match.
<lool> you did!
<StevenK> Hah!
<lool> [link] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+spec/mid-jaunty-boot-menu
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+spec/mid-jaunty-boot-menu
<davidm> persia, I just fixed pages
<lool> [link] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+spec/mid-jaunty-launcher
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+spec/mid-jaunty-launcher
<davidm> will fix them again post this meeting so they don't go a week out of date my bad
<lool> Moving to current items for this week
<lool> [topic] status of intrepid tasks: merge of ppa, installer, images etc. (davidm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  status of intrepid tasks: merge of ppa, installer, images etc. (davidm)
<StevenK> I think the only relevant thing on that list is the installer
<StevenK> images are done, but currently broken
<lool> AFAIK, three major things are installation of MID images and linux-restricted-lpia as well as madwifi/ath5k on Q1U
<lool> StevenK: You fixed lrm-lpia or are about to complete?
<lool> StevenK: Or will this complete tomorrow?
<persia> Which works except that lpia thinks it uses i686 CPUs for some reason, which we're working around.
<ogra> the latter is something amitk works on atm
<StevenK> Need confirmation, waiting for Soyuz
<lool> StevenK: Can we expect them tonight still, or tomorrow?
<StevenK> lool: "Dealing with" is the current status
<lool> StevenK: Ok; so lpia-lrm in progress
<lool> this should fix the images
<StevenK> I suspect I'm also fixing the installer, due to fiddling with the seeds
<lool> then mid might or might not install, might be using wrong kernel?
<lool> or no kenrel?
<persia> You're working around the remaining installer bug, which will be fixed properly in ubiquity 1.10.5
<StevenK> The former
<lool> so I'm aware of grub missing from the images
<lool> then 686 being used instead of lpia for kernel flavor (IIUC)
<lool> and the mid image failing to build due to lpia-lrm not being installable
<persia> lool, No.  lpia uses lpia kernel flavour.  dpkg-architecture thinks it's i686
<lool> anything else on the lpia/mid images?
<lool> persia: Thinks that the CPU is i686?  that's fine
<lool> DEB_HOST_ARCH_CPU=i686 is correct
<persia> Is it?
<lool> What's the problem you're seeing?
<persia> failure of DEB_HOST_ARCH_CPU to meaningfully match DEB_HOST_ARCH
<persia> Specifically, for multiple arches to have the same CPU values.
<persia> It broke the mapping, which is why we don't have grub today (which we're working around).  it's not worth fixing, but it's certainly confusing.
<lool> ah actually it might not be
<lool> In fact you don't want to use ARCH_CPU
<persia> No?
<lool> Ok, what's using ARCH_CPU?
<persia> ubiquity uses it to determine which is the correct bootloader
<lool> For upstream software, we should check GNU_CPU
<persia> No, this is just debian/rules + debian/control
<lool> the difference between _ARCH and _ARCH_CPU is that one has the kernel when it's not linux
<lool> For instance on kfreebsd-i386 and -amd64, they differ; otherwise they should be the same
<persia> Right, which is required for kfreebsd, etc. in Debian.
<lool> So I guess you're correct that i686 is the wrong value
<lool> (I thought we were discussing the other _CPU which should be i686)
<persia> It's at least a confusing value.  Fixing it would be exceedingly painful.
<lool> Yeah
<lool> I don't see us changing that at this point
<lool> So let's go with an _ARCH check?
<persia> That's the consensus.
<persia> ubiquity has a workaround committed, and the seeds have a workaround committed waiting for the ubiquity workaround upload.
<lool> Ok; so this ubiquity issue is understood and pending an upload to workaround it
<lool> ogra: what's today's status on ath5k/madwifi?
<ogra> amit wanted to start working on it today
<ogra> i didnt hear anything back from rtg beyond that he will pull in a LBM package into intrepid-updates
<lool> Ok, so someone is working on it
<ogra> which doesnt help us for release
<ogra> amit offered adding a pci quirk to blacklist the module on Q1
<StevenK> The seeds are commited.
<lool> ogra: sounds good
<ogra> which i think is our best option
<StevenK> I'm not sure if I pushed, and I'm in the middle of ./update
<lool> ogra: Let's go with this; can I [action] you to push a fix before next week?
 * StevenK stops looking for his seed checkout on cocoplum
<lool> If the PCI quirk can't be done, we will resort to some blacklist sadly
<ogra> so waiting for feedback from amit on the quirk a,d then waiting for rtg for the backported 2.6.28 modules
<ogra> sure
<ogra> yeah
<lool> [action] ogra to make sure a quirk or a blacklist entry is prepared to fix Q1U's wifi
<ogra> blecklist would be the most trivial then
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to make sure a quirk or a blacklist entry is prepared to fix Q1U's wifi
<ogra> *black
<lool> persia: Concerning ubiquity, can I assign you to make sure lpia installs (even from a bzr ubiquity)?
<lool> s#lpia#lpia/mid
<persia> lool, OK.  It installs today, as long as you put grub in filesystem.squashfs before you try.
<lool> ogra: Please only consider blacklist as last resort -- as discussed already
<ogra> indeed
<lool> persia: I want to make sure we land an installable image asap
<StevenK> Hm. No push, since it's a bound branch, duh.
<lool> persia: so with the grub seed fixes and bzr ubiquity it works from top to bottom?
<StevenK> lool: mobile-meta will be uploaded shortly
<ogra> just wanted to point out thats a one upload thing
<StevenK> lool: *or*
<persia> lool, It should.  I'll let you know in ~10 hours.
<lool> ogra: Ok, indeed
<StevenK> With the grub seed fixes *or* bzr ubiquity it works
<lool> persia: Thanks; mind if I action to revisit this next week?
<persia> No.
<StevenK> Ah
<StevenK> Okay
<lool> [action] persia to make sure lpia/mid installs with trunk versions of seeds and ubiquty
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to make sure lpia/mid installs with trunk versions of seeds and ubiquty
<lool> StevenK: can I action you for fixing lrm-lpia installability?
<persia> Well, I'll actually make sure the dailies install :)
<lool> OMG it's action day
<persia> Chasing trunk is *hard*
<StevenK> lool: You can, but I've likely already done it
<lool> [action] StevenK to make sure lpia-lrm reaches archive and is installable
<MootBot> ACTION received:  StevenK to make sure lpia-lrm reaches archive and is installable
<lool> StevenK: Things are too easy for you
<StevenK> Oh, are they?
<lool> StevenK: i'll need to action you with harder stuff!
<ogra> 120 pushups ?
<StevenK> I used to be able to do that :-(
<persia> It's a matter of practice
 * ogra was never in his life in the three digit area ...
<lool> [topic] amitk - kernel issues
<MootBot> New Topic:  amitk - kernel issues
<ogra> is he here ?
<lool> who put that topic?  was it amitk himself?
<lool> he isn't around to comment sadly
<lool> I poked him to join
<ogra> i think that was david
<lool> davidm: What were your discussion topics?  linux/linux-lpia merging?
<lool> [action] carry over: amitk - kernel issues (davidm)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  carry over: amitk - kernel issues (davidm)
<lool> [topic] StevenK's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK's status
<lool> StevenK: How is it going?
<davidm> I added amitk kernel issues in case there were any
<lool> (agenda is a bit werid TBH)
<StevenK> Dealing with Kourou, which is uploaded, LRM, now seeds
<davidm> but kernel team is busy this week
<lool> davidm: We'll revisit at end of meeting if he comes up, otherwise next week
<davidm> yes
<StevenK> Oh, and Soyuz bugs
<lool> Eh
<lool> Ok; StevenK: any blocker?
<StevenK> Sleep
<lool> [topic] Installation of language packs and network access at install time (EmmetHikory)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Installation of language packs and network access at install time (EmmetHikory)
<StevenK> But that is painful to fix
<lool> persia: woot
<persia> Those were last week.
<ogra> StevenK, thats a post release action :)
<StevenK> Hah
<persia> This week I want to talk about bug #280014.  It's in progress, and ought be sorted tomorrow.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280014 in ubiquity "Cannot install with a blank password" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280014
<persia> Once that's done, and in the images, I'll want to push a change to casper to put ubuntu-mid installation into --automatic mode, and it should be clean.
<lool> persia: sorry, they are lsited in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2008/20081009
<StevenK> persia: cjwatson disagreed with the change, from what I saw
<lool> [topic] installation with blank password
<MootBot> New Topic:  installation with blank password
<persia> StevenK, The disagreement was with the implementation, as the way I did it broke the UI.  I'm working on an alternate implementation that doesn't do that.
<lool> persia: so status is that you made the debconf additions to have a flag to allow this and this needs uploads?
<persia> Essentially, I first just ignored blank passwords, but the user then presses next and gets an error.
<StevenK> persia: Ah, okay
<lool> ok, pending a bug fix
<persia> I need to check the preseed values in the ubiquity frontend, and use that to determine whether to allow the user to proceed.
<persia> lool, The debconf changes and d-i stuff is complete.  I'm just working on the ubiquity front-ends.
<lool> persia: I guess I can also skip "Switching to ISO9660 images instead of USB images" then?
<persia> Yeah, last week we determined that we weren't doing that.  I believe I was supposed to start a spec about it, but I didn't start it yet.
<davidm> It's gone
<lool> thanks
<lool> persia: any blocker?
<lool> persia: anything else you're working on?
<persia> No real blockers.  I'm looking forward to the landing of the install-from-USB fixes underway, but not actively involved.  I've been looking at the lpia desktop alternate CD installer, which still has some issues, but I don't consider that intrepid-critical.
<lool> [action] persia to write spec on providing iso images or vm support or how to write mobile images for end users
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to write spec on providing iso images or vm support or how to write mobile images for end users
<lool> [topic] lool status
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool status
<persia> What?  I'm not going to do that.
<ogra> what ?
<lool> status is currently here, chairing your meeting
<ogra> why is that ?
<persia> I'll write release notes if the problem can't be fixed.
 * ogra thought we were over the iso stuff
 * persia too
<lool> persia: "I believe I was supposed to write a spec about it", davidm proposed that I action you on it
<ogra> jaunty wont need it because the nstaler will be fixed
<lool> I thought we were done as well, but perhaps you wanted to spec something for intrepid
<lool> err jaunty
<persia> OK.  That makes more sense.  Sure, I'll write a spec for Jaunty.
<lool> Ok; so we'll drop the action from wiki or dismiss next week :)
<ogra> and your mini iso will fix it for intrepid
<StevenK> Seed changes uploaded
<lool> ok
<lool> back to my status, I've been helping around with misc issues as usual lately; nothing blocking to report
<lool> I'm playing with jax10 hardware
 * ogra wants ... 
<lool> [topic] ogra's /proc/self/status
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra's /proc/self/status
<ogra> all fine, chasing some general intepid bugs that also affect mobile
<lool> ogra: So, how is it going?
<lool> good
<lool> ogra: blocked on anything?  anything intrepid critical you'd like to mention?
<ogra> i.e. the compiz doesnt allow dpms one
<ogra> only that i still have a bunch of .fdi file changes to make for touchscreens
<ogra> i found a proper successor for ltsp
<lool> eh
<ogra> stgraber will take that over from em
<ogra> *me
<ogra> so i can do ltsp upstream but got the packaging off my back
<ogra> i.e. everything that pust duties on me with ltsp is gone
<lool> Good news
<ogra> yeah
<lool> Ok, moving on
<ogra> will give me more free time in jaunty
<lool> [topic] special guest cgregan's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  special guest cgregan's status
<cgregan> :-)
<lool> cgregan: would you like to mention anything intrepid related or blocking :)
<ogra> oh, and i wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting
<lool> or anything relevantr eally
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting
<cgregan> Worked on a new landing page for the cases yesterday
<cgregan> Since we now have mobile and MID versions
<cgregan> it seemed like a good idea
 * ogra needs to go over that one 
<ogra> the text is a bit confusing ...
<cgregan> Also....reviewing some potential testers for this team
<cgregan> ogra: the text on the landing page?
<ogra> (note mobile is not centric on netbooks, but on UMPCs)
<ogra> i.e. focused on touchscreen use
<lool> it's also ok with netbooks :)
<cgregan> Mobile or MID?
<ogra> right
<ogra> mobile
<cgregan> then MID is?
<lool> MID is MID and UMPC :)
<cgregan> hehe
<persia> For MIDs.  Currently only the Aigo or the D4, but could be more.
<lool> mobile is UMPC and netbooks and MID :)
<ogra> you can very well use mobile on netbooks but mobile *is* for UMPCs without keyboards
<cgregan> ok....as long as it is not confusing! :-)
<lool> and Ubuntu Desktop is desktops laptops mids umpc netbooks
<persia> Mobile works *great* with a keyboard.
<ogra> sure
<lool> Server is servers desktops laptops netbooks umpcs and mids
<persia> No.  -desktop doesn't work very well for MIDs (I've tried).
<ogra> but the mobile UI was designed with touchscreen in mind
<persia> ogra, Sure, but it also works the other way.  Be inclusive :)
<cgregan> Ok....so we need to clarify what we are building these for.....and update the wiki
<lool> persia: It works better than minimal in my experience
<persia> lool, I guess, but there are better options.
<ogra> persia, currently the test case says mobile is the version we designed for netbooks
<lool> cgregan: So in general you're calling for contributions to the QA test cases?
<persia> Hrm.  That's not very inclusive.
<lool> I also saw davmor2 work on them
<cgregan> lool: Yes....and this clarification
<cgregan> I have been pulling UNR cases over to cover mobile....since the former mobile cases are now MID
<lool> ogra: Well it's better suited for netbooks than desktop still :-)  but it shouldn't restrict to netbooks
<cgregan> But I have a feeling there are inaccuracies
<ogra> right
<lool> cgregan: I think we need to clarify this for everybody's sake
<cgregan> lool: yes
<persia> cgregan, If you have some time, I'd be happy to discuss in #ubuntu-mobile after the meeting.
<ogra> lool, i had a bunch of complaints from umpcportal users that wanted to see UMPC mentioned ...
<lool> The way I see it, everything will work more or less on netbooks, mids, and umpcs, but the experience is really different
<ogra> so i like to advertise mobile as designed for touchscreen driven UMPCs but also usable on netbooks atm
 * persia points at the clock, and suggests further discussion after the meeting.
<cgregan> persia: More calls after this, but perhaps a little later, or in your morning
<persia> cgregan, OK.
 * lool welcomes persia's pointer to the clock
<cgregan> That's it for me
<lool> Thanks Chris
<lool> It seems on topic to mention a new position at Canonical *cough*
<lool> [topic] new QA position at Canonical
<MootBot> New Topic:  new QA position at Canonical
<davidm> We are looking for someone with a commercial background
<cgregan> yes...looking over some candidate info today
<lool> For people reading this, there's a job opening in the mobile team at Canonical
<davidm> http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_MIDQA/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_MIDQA/
<lool> Ok; that should get the attention of people reading the minutes
<lool> Moving to davidm's stauts
<davidm> Yep, thanks
<lool> [topic] davidm's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  davidm's status
<davidm> I've been in meetings and paperwork all week
<lool> coffeed or not coffeed is the question
<ogra> heh
<davidm> the QA position was one output
<StevenK> Being in paperwork sounds uncomfortable
<davidm> the other is a bit of a focus change
<davidm> Once we clear the intrepid critical bugs we should have a look at the rest of the intrepid bug list
<davidm>  https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
<davidm> And see where we might be able to help a bit.
<davidm> So fix intrepid critical bugs and then help the other teams with their intrepid critical bugs :-)
<lool> Ok; davidm are you blocked on anything where you could be helped by the team?
<lool> and anything else intrepid critical which yuo'd like to mention?
<ogra> davidm, mobile is affected by most of the desktop things there anyway
<davidm> No, I'm not blocked, and I appreciate your suggestion last week of a rotating secretary within the team
<davidm> that will help me a great deal
<davidm> thanks for all of the output last week
<lool> So I've picked up October and will call for a November secretary again as we near up
<davidm> Once we have images again that install I'm happy to help were ever we can.
<lool> Any other topic?
<davidm> not from me.
<lool> We need to fill up the last 8 minutes, I can't let people wander off freely before the end of the hour
<pitti> hi
<StevenK> You can't?!
<StevenK> You monster!
<lool> Well you're under my responsability
<ogra> heh
<lool> What if you're hit by a truck?
<persia> Is there anyone else who wants to raise anything?
<lool> Ok; thanks everybody for attending
<lool> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:53.
<cgregan> thanks
 * lool waves to desktop team
<Riddell> hi
<pitti> hey everyone
<pitti> desktop team ready?
<pitti> seb128, Riddell, kwwii, mvo, Keybuk ?
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> (well mvo-ish)
<kwwii> pitti: I am here :-)
<Riddell> hi pitti
<mvo> hello
<mvo> I'm still part of the team until the 20th, then I move to foundations :)
<pitti> ok, Keybuk might still be recovering
<pitti> mvo: oh, good to know
<pitti> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:04. The chair is pitti.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pitti> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-09
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-09
<pitti> today's meeting template
<pitti> I didn't see any explicit agenda items, did I miss any?
<pitti> I saw the langpack and bluez problems from Riddell, and I plan to go through some RC bugs
<pitti> tedg: here by chance? some questions involve you, too
<kwwii> pitti: I just want to make sure that the gnome-themes stuff gets done as well as reverting ubuntu-sounds
<pitti> let's add that to the topic
<tedg> pitti: Yes, for a little while.  The conference picks up in an hour, and I have to walk over (no IRC there)
<pitti> tedg: great, thanks
<pitti> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
<pitti> seb128 to propose three options for bug 274146
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274146 in gnome-session "Has not yet replaced the existing log out applet" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274146
<pitti> that has happened (thanks)
<seb128> done
<pitti> however, we didn't really get closer to a decision
<seb128> extra suggestions followed and discussion
<seb128> and the bug stalled since
<pitti> or, rather, we seem to have several different personal preferences, but it's a bit unclear who is to decide
<seb128> it's rather than we are getting late, some options are not changes you want to land one week before intrepid
<pitti> tedg: I left some questions to your latest reply, wrt. going back to hardy with the updated gconf setup, is that actually possible? or is it an one-way thing?
<seb128> ie changing user datas would require testing
<pitti> seb128: what's your preference, BTW?
<tedg> pitti: It should be okay.  As then the panel will drop the new FUSA applet and pick up the old one.  It won't rewrite it's config, we'd only be appending.
<seb128> I've to admit I didn't think about the issue for a few days and I've been coming forth and back so not really sure right now
<pitti> tedg: oh, I see; but you'd change the logout applet, too?
<seb128> I think what mvo suggested (the update-notified hook to update the config)
<tedg> pitti: Yes, but that would then be the same.  On Intrepid it would pick up the new logout applet if a user put it there, but on Hardy it would do the old one.
<pitti> tedg: hm, that sounds good actually
<seb128> what option is that one?
<pitti> tedg: on the topic of feasibility, could you actually work on that, so that we can test it soon?
<pitti> tedg: it would be triggered by what, an Xsession.d script?
<pitti> or autostart .desktop or so? or by the panel itself?
<tedg> seb128: The idea of changing the namespace for both the FUSA applet and the logout button.  And then inserting the new applet name into the panel config.
<seb128> I don't like the namespace change option
<seb128> and would that work?
<tedg> pitti: I can work on it, but I'm not getting much hacking time right now -- probably not until the weekend.
<seb128> the logout button is a panel object where fusa is an applet
<tedg> pitti: The GNOME Summit is more of a hackfest, this is more talking and whiteboarding.
<tedg> seb128: Correct, but they both have names.  One would be a patch to GNOME Panel.
<pitti> my personal feeling is, if we don't have working code for this by the next meeting, we fall back to the upstream behaviour and document it
<seb128> patch to keep forever which makes us incompatible with upstream configs?
<seb128> no thanks
<pitti> (which is actually my preference)
<pitti> we did the decision to have the split dialogs again, so the desktop look&feel changes *anyway*
<tedg> Can we do a phone call on this?  I feel like IRC/email/launchpad isn't really working towards getting agreement on where to go.
<seb128> right, the split dialog is not an issue, the issue is the green man button which is pretty much useless after upgrade
<pitti> seb128: it can log out out...
<seb128> right, but it changes the sementic over what it was before
<mvo> if we go with the "document" approach, we could as well use a notifier hook for the documentation
<kwwii> yeah, and I have now linked the logout button to the little green man pic, so that will be going away graphicaly
<seb128> ideally we would have the new fusa or nothing there now
<seb128> mvo: what was your little python code thing doing?
<pitti> mvo: *nod*, if it explains what to do, good
<mvo> the notifier hook can have code attached as well, so we could add a small python script that does the required gconf juggling automatically if the user decides on it
<seb128> mvo: what was your juggling exactly?
<mvo> seb128: the python code I played with jsut moves the existing fusa applet to the right coerner and removes the logout button from the object list
<seb128> mvo: deleting and adding or moving things?
<pitti> mvo: could it replace logout with fusa if the user just has logout?
<seb128> mvo: if you tested it and it works that would be my favorite option
<pitti> mine, too
<seb128> ask the question in update-manager after upgrade
<pitti> I just don't like fully automatic gconf changing
<seb128> pitti: I would not care about people who don't have the standard ubuntu layout, they know how to customize their config
<pitti> seb128: it's asked in the desktop, in update-notifier, I think
<mvo> it could do a replace too, not sure if that is desirable, my initial "design" was to bail out if anything is unexcpected assuming that the user has customizations
<seb128> if fuse and session applets are there ask otherwise do nothing
<pitti> seb128: but we added the logout applet earlier than fusa, so it is a standard setup situation IMHO
<seb128> +1 from me on mvo's current juggling
<pitti> e. g. if the user installed edgy and upgraded since then, he would have never seen fusa
<mvo> pitti: thats right
<pitti> +1 from me too, if we can extend it to the "just logout applet" case, and we can get it in by next meeting
<seb128> pitti: ok, so always delete the session button on upgrade and add fusa in the corner and delete old fusa before doing that if it's used in the config?
<mvo> I really shouldn't ask for more work, but I think it can done reasonably simple
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<pitti> seb128: sounds right
<tedg> It works for me.
<seb128> ok, agreement, every sign now ;-)
<pitti> yay, an agreement!
<pitti> w00t
<seb128> \o/
 * tedg looks for some Boston Tea to send mvo -- apparently they had a tea party here a while back.
<pitti> mvo: I think you are the natural victi^Wassignee now?
<seb128> everybody hug mvo!
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<mvo> tedg: ohhhh, that would make me a happy man, but check the "best-before" date, the party was a while ago IIRC ;)
<pitti> [ACTION] mvo to upload upgrate notification based panel gconf updating for bug #274146
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mvo to upload upgrate notification based panel gconf updating for bug #274146
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274146 in gnome-session "Has not yet replaced the existing log out applet" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274146
 * pitti hugs mv"hero"o
<pitti> mvo: oh, and of course we need u-m to support my new "upgrate" mode, too
<pitti> (merge update and upgrade)
<mvo> hu?
<pitti> ok, I'm glad that we settled this
<pitti> [TOPIC] kwwii: revert ubuntu-sounds
<MootBot> New Topic:  kwwii: revert ubuntu-sounds
<pitti> kwwii: can you please give us a little heads-up?
<kwwii> so, I was told to revert the sounds as they are way too close to windows vista sounds (duh! /me does not have windows)
<pitti> FWIW, I just noticed the new login sound once, about 20 minutes ago
<kwwii> I really like the new sounds but this came down from on high, so there is no discussion, just reverting :-)
<pitti> kwwii: ok; can you please prepare a new package and poke me or seb for uploading?
<kwwii> pitti: well, all we need to do is to revert to the hardy version
<seb128> just raising the issue but think way decisions are taken at the moment will not work correctly
<kwwii> seb128: apparently there are quite a few people who think the sounds are too vista-like
<pitti> -EPARSE
<seb128> those gnome-themes, etc decision are taken nowhere visible, not discussed and come as "you need to do those changes" on random team people now
<kwwii> seb128: yeah, the gnome-themes stuff is a bit different than we normaly do things, but we have been talking about that for along time
<seb128> pitti: well, basically kwwii ping random people saying "we need to do those changes"
<seb128> pitti: changes which are neither discussed before, not documented
<kwwii> seb128: the only time I do that is when I have approval or direction from sabdfl
<seb128> and not coming through a proper procedure
<seb128> kwwii: I understand that but I don't think it's a good way to do things or will scale
<seb128> you just ping random people on IRC about changes to do which are not explained, not discussed, etc
<kwwii> seb128: I can understand what you are saying, I guess to some extent the artwork has always been a bit chaotic in this regard
<pitti> Artwork has always had this kind of "Mark's baby" on it, though
<seb128> pitti: the gnome-themes split is not really artwork
<seb128> it's delta over debian
<kwwii> honestly, the only things I push on people to change are things in which I have an email from Mark telling me to take care of it
<seb128> upstream themes we don't ship etc
<kwwii> and I only do that if I cannot do it myself
<pitti> (next topic)
<seb128> pitti: it'll make upstream angry, we will get complain and we have nothing to point about why that has been decided
<pitti> seb128: that's for gnome-themes already, or for ubuntu-sounds?
<seb128> pitti: gnome-themes in my case
<pitti> ok, seems the actual u-s topic is done
<seb128> I don't know about ubuntu-sounds
<pitti> [TOPIC] Ken: gnome-themes cleanup
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ken: gnome-themes cleanup
<kwwii> so, this is what seb128 wants to discuss :-)
<pitti> kwwii: the themes you propose to remove, are they from upstream, or did we patch them in?
<kwwii> pitti: they are from the upstream package
<pitti> (Crux, Glider, etc)
<pitti> so why should we remove them then?
<kwwii> pitti: everything except the high-contrast* themes
<pitti> Q1) why remove them in the first place? it's GNOME
<kwwii> because they are "ugly" and outdated, basically
<seb128> pitti: because somebody think they don't look nice and clutter the themes lists
<pitti> Q2) how can we make sure that we can DTRT on upgrades?
<kwwii> the only ones that interest anyone is the accessability stuff
<pitti> *shrug* de gustibus non disputandum est
<seb128> pitti: we discussed the upgrade previous week and that's no issue
<mvo> I think seb128 has a point, upstream releations are very important, if that is a change that upsets them, that is not good
<kwwii> pitti: the answer to the upgrade issue is to put all the themes we remove into another package and only install that on upgrades
<pitti> seb128: if the theme files suddenly disappear, it'll fall back to hi-contrast?
<seb128> we need a gnome-themes dummy package depends on nice looking and not ubuntu shipped packages and install only nice looking
<seb128> so upgrades still have "not ubuntu shipped"
<pitti> kwwii: that sounds like a lot of effort for no visible effect
<seb128> and new install have only "nice looking themes"
<pitti> do they take so much space on CDs that we need to worry about them?
<seb128> no
<pitti> Size: 272606
<kwwii> pitti: it cleans out the interface and removes cruft
<pitti> (hardy)
<kwwii> the size issue is not worth talking about :-)
<seb128> pitti: it just makes the themes lists be also empty
<seb128> almost
<pitti> kwwii: apparently there were upstream discussions, if they are abandoned, would upstream remove them?
<kwwii> pitti: afaik upstream will not change this package any time soon
<seb128> pitti: upstream did some cleaning some cycles ago, crux is used
<pitti> if upstream says "we'll remove them in 2.26", I'd be okay with doing the change ahead of time, but why bother otherwise?
<seb128> they probably don't agree on the uglyness there
<pitti> kwwii: is there actually a point for discussing this, or is that another sabdfl-ism?
<kwwii> pitti: mianly because sabdfl told me to
<kwwii> pitti: exactly :-)
<pitti> hm, but it's a part of GNOME after all
<kwwii> sure, and it is not like he won't listen to reason
<seb128> it's going to create package delta, angry upstream and users for no win
<pitti> so, for the record, I don't agree to the approach, and I don't see why having some non-default themes available is a bad thing
<kwwii> but then someone who knows the reasons should discuss it with him
<seb128> ok, let's take that out of the meeting
<kwwii> ok
<tedg> kwwii: Weren't you getting some push back on including the community themes?
<kwwii> tedg: we do include the community themes now...not sure what you mean
<kwwii> so we do have three new themes
<tedg> kwwii: Oh, on the CDs?
<kwwii> yes
<tedg> And that's generally okay?
<pitti> ok, I propose we continue the discussion on u-desktop@ as replies to Ken's mail
<pitti> I'll start with it, and CC: Mark
<kwwii> pitti: cool, thanks :-)
<pitti> [ACTION] pitti and other desktop members to reply on gnome-themes issue on the ML, CC'ing Mark
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti and other desktop members to reply on gnome-themes issue on the ML, CC'ing Mark
<pitti> [TOPIC] Martin: Discuss desktop related intrepid-targeted bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Martin: Discuss desktop related intrepid-targeted bugs
<pitti> bug 261084
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261084 in gnome-power-manager "Suspends again right after resume" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261084
<pitti> tedg: your PPA package seems to have improved the matters, but not completely fixed them apparently
<pitti> tedg: do you have an estimate how common the remaining cases are?
<pitti> and should it still be RC after your PPA fix?}
<tedg> pitti: No, sorry I hadn't noticed that someone had said that they didn't work.  (I'm behind on mail)
<tedg> pitti: I'm trying to check to see if the power button fixes break Xubuntu (no new GNOME Session) before uploading them genericly.
<pitti> tedg: ok, thanks; it's the only remaining unclear "Ted"ish bug on my list
<pitti> tedg: thanks for making the meeting (in case you have to leave soon)
<pitti> tedg: so that bug is still on track? or do you need help?
<tedg> pitti: I think that it's generally on track, but I really think it is another "X changed the way they do keys" bugs, and we're kinda working around it by fixing it in GPM.
<tedg> pitti: It goes with the X doesn't have a keyboard on boot (drives me crazy) and pommed no longer works.
 * tedg is not impressed with the new X
<pitti> it causes all kinds of trouble, same with non-workign suspend/brighthness keys, etc., yes
<pitti> does anyone feel attached to rarian? we have two bugs which look important (bug 256131 and bug 276878), they don't have an assignee
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 256131 in docbook-xml "failed to upgrade : "update-xmlcatalog: error: entity already registered"" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256131
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276878 in rarian "better package relations for the upgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276878
<tedg> I think that the "no mouse or keyboard" on boot think should probably be elevated to a release blocker though.  I don't think most users want to restart X on the command line before logging in.
<pitti> ok, seems not; I just fixed my remaining intrepid bug, so I'll have a look at these two
<seb128> pitti: I don't think anybody is really looking at it in debian or ubuntu no
<pitti> ok, next one is bug 212098
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 212098 in nautilus-share ""easy" file sharing not notifying about logout/login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212098
<seb128> pitti: ah, the second one is basically a "change GNOME depends on scrollkeeper to rarian-compat", I can do that when uploading GNOME 2.24.1 updates
<mvo> maybe we can get help from someone from the plattform^Wfoundations team for rarian? assuming there is someone with spare cycles ...
<pitti> seb128: oh, that easy? nice
<seb128> I've no clue about how the xml catalogs thing work but if somebody does that would be nice
<pitti> seb128: ok, I assigned the second one to you, and I'll look into the first one
<seb128> we can ask on #ubuntu-devel
<seb128> pitti: ok thanks
<pitti> just making sure that all the RC bugs have an assignee
<pitti> and a plan
<seb128> the file sharing thing, I though mvo was looking to it for 8.04.1 but I guess that got an another ETOOMUCHTODO
<pitti> is that actually still an issue?
<seb128> that should be easy enough
<pitti> I guess it isn't for new installs
<pitti> since we put the user into sambashare by default now
<pitti> but for upgrades it is, right?
<seb128> it is
<seb128> samba is not installed by default
<pitti> so it's just a matter of a better error message?
<pitti> seb128: right, but that part is already handled, no? it presents a "install samba now" button
<seb128> you get samba installed when trying to use the feature for the first time
<seb128> right
<seb128> but after the install you need to restart the session
<pitti> right
<seb128> because the group membership is not dynamic
<pitti> so that just needs to be added to the dialog then?
<seb128> so that's still an issue for new installs
<pitti> seb128: s/new installs/upgrades/
<pitti> well, s/&/existing users/
<seb128> either to that dialog or display an another dialog after the installation
<kwwii> much like the "restart required" notification
<cjwatson> it's a problem for non-first users on new installs too
<pitti> coudl the main sharing dialog just say so if samba is already installed, but the process doesn't have the group yet?
<seb128> cjwatson: it's a problem for first user too no?
<cjwatson> seb128: not on new installs at the moment; the installer creates the sambashare group and adds the user to it
<cjwatson> as a grotty workaround
<seb128> cjwatson: ah ok, I didn't know about that, I though that was the samba install doing that
<cjwatson> I don't like it, I'd rather remove that in favour of something better
<cjwatson> samba install does it too
<cjwatson> but this is to avoid the "gotta restart the session" thing
<pitti> so if we get the "restart your session" message right, we could even remove that again
<seb128> right, I though only samba was doing it, I didn't know about the workaround
<seb128> pitti: right
<seb128> people tend to not read the dialogs, so I think we should better display an another dialog after install
<seb128> rather than trying to put too much text in the first one that users will not read
<pitti> right, agreed, I just looked at it
<pitti> but if you try to enable the check box again, you could get a msgbox saying "you need to restart" [RESTART] [LATER] instead of the "install samba?" question
<seb128> that's a corner case but ideally right
<seb128> having the "you need to restart your session" after the samba install would already be nice
<pitti> well, it's exactly what this bug is about, isn't it?
<seb128> the bug is about notifying the user that the feature will not working until next login
<seb128> s/not working/not be working
<seb128> anyway it should be easy enough, you can assign it to me, I'll have a look
<pitti> seb128: do you know someone from the community who could be intersted in that?
<seb128> I'll try to see if some of the desktop contributors are wanting to give it a try other I'll look at it myself later
<pitti> seb128: ok, thanks; please let me know if you don't find one and don't have time for it, then I'll try to look into it (I'd have to drop other stuff, though)
<pitti> Riddell: I didn't see notable RC bugs for KDE, is it just working, or aren't they milestoned?
<seb128> pitti: ok
<ScottK> pitti: I think Bug #279983 should count
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279983 in kdebluetooth "kblueplugd crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279983
<pitti> ScottK: right, that's for Riddell's complaint about bluez 0.4 breaking KDE?
<ScottK> That's the one about kdebluetooth not working with the new bluetooth stack.
<ScottK> Yes.
<pitti> hm, too bad that this didn't come up with Mario's test packages
<pitti> marked for Intrepid now
<ScottK> I guess leave the autopsy for another discussion.
<pitti> ok
<pitti> [TOPIC] sponsoring queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  sponsoring queue
<pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<pitti> has some desktopish stuff
<pitti> I won't go over it in detail right now, but a reminder:
<ScottK> pitti: I do think we ought to discuss what to do about the problem though.
<Riddell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/278634 is the other one, rosetta being frustratingly slow this cycle
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278634 in ubiquity "[Intrepid Beta] KDE does not use the language selected during install" [Critical,Confirmed]
<pitti> please remember to note your sponsored uploads in the activity report, I didn't see it from anyone
<pitti> and have a look at the queue, e. g. there is a gtk patch for an RC bug
<seb128> ups
<pitti> Riddell: tell me about it, this drives me mad
<seb128> pitti: this bug is assigned to ArneGoetje and I've no clue about it
<pitti> Riddell: but that's definitively something I'm watching and discussing, too
<seb128> pitti: my call would be to "have upstream to comment on it first" but ArneGoetje might have a clue
<pitti> seb128: it was just an example, nothing particularly towards you
<pitti> seb128: yeah, sounds good
<pitti> he should at least be able to test it
<pitti> ok, those bugs covered the "release status" topic, too
<pitti> we're out of time
<pitti> ScottK: does superm1 know about the KDE regression?
<ScottK> pitti: He does.
<pitti> he worked a lot with the packages recently
<ScottK> My impression was he pretty well shrugged.
<pitti> hmm
<seb128> I don't think anything went especially wrong there
<ScottK> The Kubuntu dev who's mostly looked into bluetooth (Tonio) is mostly MIA at present.
<seb128> it's just a lack of manpower issue
<persia> It's more about needing upstream to do something.  None of the few people hacking the bluetooth stack now understand kdebluetooth
<pitti> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18310466/Traceback.txt looks like an API change
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18310466/Traceback.txt looks like an API change
<seb128> we can't block ubuntu in a broken state because nobody tests other desktop variants
<ScottK> seb128: There's nothing especially wrong with breaking Kubuntu just before release?
<Riddell> persia: it would be better not to do major foundation changes after beta
<seb128> nobody broken kubuntu just for the fun of break it
<seb128> the work was to have a decent stack for ubuntu intrepid
<persia> Riddell, Agreed.  In this case the alternative was bluetooth not working for anyone.
<ScottK> Yes, but testing late major upgrades should be comprehensive.
<ScottK> persia: It was working for me before and it's not now.
<seb128> having ubuntu broken just in case a derivative would break is not a solution eithjer
<seb128> well, they did things correctly, used a ppa, had a bug for testing feedback etc
<persia> ScottK, Ah.  Nobody said that to any of the bluetooth upgrade discussions I saw.
<seb128> they didn't land everything to intrepid directly without testing
<Riddell> clearly they did
<seb128> Riddell: they did what?
<ScottK> seb128: Not without testing, but without sufficient testing.
<pitti> hm, I don't even have a org.bluez.Manager on either the system or session bus
<seb128> ScottK: somebody in the kubuntu community could have tested
<ScottK> seb128: Yes and it was on my TODO.  No one said that it was about to be uploaded.
<pitti> anyway, little point in debating blame here now (I'm fine with discussing this further in #u-devel, particularly resolutions)
<pitti> is there anything else anyone has for the meeting?
<seb128> ScottK: better to upload sooner than later
<ScottK> seb128: Then just skip all the testing and upload straight to Intrepid.
 * persia notices the complete lack of response to the call for testing on kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<seb128> ScottK: they did test it correctly on ubuntu, I disagree on the lack of testing
 * ScottK moves to #ubuntu-devel as pitti asked.
<seb128> the manpower is limited and it's not always possible to test all the environment you don't use
<pitti> ok, then thanks everyone, let's close the official meeting bit
<pitti> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:08.
<seb128> pitti: thanks
<seb128> pitti: the bot is on a weird timezone ;-)
<persia> OK.  Who's here for the Java meeting?
<persia> slytherin, Koon, robilad, doko ?
<persia> Anyone else?
<Koon> o/
<doko> sorry, will be away in 15min
<persia> doko, OK.  Anything you want to announce quickly before you go?
<doko> no
<persia> OK.
<persia> So Meeting Agenda is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<slytherin> I have a bug for which I need discussion with doko
<persia> slytherin, Then go now, and we'll do roadmap later, as there's nothing else on the agenda this week.
<doko> just one?
<slytherin> doko: Specifically one, bug #255149. The fix is small but I wanted to discuss before I submit debdiff.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255149 in openjdk-6 "javascript script support through rhino should not be on bootclasspath" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255149
<doko> well, the openoffice.org build now succeeds. what else will break?
<slytherin> doko: The problem is that users are not able to use external versions of rhino.
<slytherin> where as it can be used with Sun JDK because the symlink is not present there.
<doko> right, do you have a fix, e.g. getting it loaded with a class loader when needed?
<slytherin> No. But I will first try what is working for others i.e. removing symlink. And then I will also do some more testing to make sure there are no regressions.
<persia> I think I'd prefer to keep the symlink as a workaround until a proper class loader can deal with it, as trying to track down Oo.o build issues is *extremely* time consuming.
<slytherin> persia: OOo build issues has been fixed already with a workaround. We now need to fix other problems caused by this bug.
<doko> so if anybody wants to work on the class loader issue, please go ahead. this maybe is annoying for a developer, but I don't want to "fix" it by removing the symlink before the release
<persia> Oh, a different workaround.  I misunderstood then.
<doko> slytherin: did you forward the report to icedtea?
<slytherin> doko: No. The feedback from users was received a just few days ago.
<slytherin> I will do that today.
<persia> And we're running against the 15 minute boundary, so on to the RoadMap.
<slytherin> sure
<persia> robilad isn't here today, so slytherin: you're first.  I think we're just wating on ubuntu-archive for the rest of MoveToUniverse for Intrepid, right?
<slytherin> yes. I tried more than once to get attention on #ubuntu-devel, but that hasn't helped.
<persia> As long as everything is ACK'd, and waiting in queue, we're in about as good shape as we're likely to get.  Don't worry about it too much.
<slytherin> persia: I am worrying because libxstream-java is still in multiverse and its reverse-build-depends have entered in universe.
<persia> The relevant bug has that information added as a comment?
<slytherin> No.
<persia> That's probably the best thing to do then : it will mail the archive admins about it, and maybe raise the priority.
<persia> Anything else of note for MoveToUniverse?
<doko> ok, I'm away
<slytherin> no
<persia> Have a good afternoon doko
<persia> OK.  Koon: did you get everything you needed registered for the maven spec?
<Koon> yes, I think doko accepted to review it, so now it's waiting for review/approval
<Koon> I also welcome other team member reviews while there is still time
<persia> I'm happy with it, to the extent I understand it.  It seems a lot easier than the other models presented.
<persia> It just needs mvn-packaging for some makefile snippets to ease work for the maintainers.
<Koon> yes, and a good working example :)
<persia> Now, for implementation, I think you needed a bunch of extra hands for packaging.  Do you want to schedule a session at OpenWeek to lead people through packaging something with Ant to help get through the first block of packages?
<persia> (Level 0)
<Koon> when is it ?
<persia> It's usually the first or second week after release, so early November.  I haven't seen an announcement yet.
<Koon> I've a team sprint around that time. If I can make it, I will.
<Koon> Will confirm whenever we have the OpenWeel announcement
<Koon> otherwise I'll do a wikipage explaining how to do it
<persia> OK.  If your schedule won't allow it, let's try to get someone else to lead a session, as I think we need three or four packagers to get this in good shape.
<Koon> persia: we'll decide what route to take when we have the timing for OpenWeek
<persia> Koon, Sounds good.
<Koon> I'll check if it's as easy as I suspect it is
<persia> Anything else for maven?
<Koon> nope
<persia> OK.  Any other topics anyone wants to raise?
<slytherin> nothing form my side
<Koon> nothing here
<persia> OK.  Have a good week.
<Koon> thanks persia
<slytherin> bye.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Arabic | 14 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 14 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 15 Oct 12:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team
<jjesse> @time sydney
<ubottu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: October 10 2008, 07:16:21 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Arabic in 20 hours 43 minutes
 * Eluxzen is away: Away
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-10
<VISTAplayer> HI!
<cjwatson> slangasek: around?
<cjwatson> anyone here for the release team meeting?
 * mathiaz waves
<cjwatson> phoning slangasek
 * heno is
<cjwatson> voicemail
<cjwatson> why don't we get started, using the previous meeting's agenda
<cjwatson>  * Team reports
<cjwatson>   * Per-team topics:
<cjwatson>    * Milestoned bugs
<cjwatson>     * https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone=1325
<cjwatson>    * Release-targeted bugs
<cjwatson>     * https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
<cjwatson>    * Milestoned features
<cjwatson>     * https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.10-beta
<cjwatson>    * Future issues expected to impact the release
<cjwatson>     * Freeze exceptions
<cjwatson> oh, I should use mootbot
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:08. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<cjwatson> heno:
<sbeattie> * bug 279669, bug 269926 - wireless firmware moved to l-r-m
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279669 in linux "ipw2200 firmware moved to restricted" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279669
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269926 in linux-restricted-modules "missing iwlwifi-4965-2.ucode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269926
<cjwatson> here's the milestoned bug list for anyone who's lost it, BTW:
<sbeattie> we were wondering if there was a way to make this transition on users.
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1326
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1326
<sbeattie> err, easier on users.
<cjwatson> mvo: we could make update-manager detect those PCI IDs and ensure that the restricted kernel modules are installed ...
<heno> also bug 145360 has lots of dupes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 145360 in compiz "compiz.real crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145360
<cjwatson> pitti: who's handling compiz at the moment?
<pitti> it's still between seb128 and mvo
<pitti> at least Michael did the last round of uploads
<pitti> and he's still part of the desktop team for another 2 weeks
<cjwatson> 161 duplicates> owww
<mvo> hello!
<cjwatson> it's an old bug, from September last year
<cjwatson> I wonder if all those dupes are really the same problem ...
<mdz> sbeattie: I would ask a different question (as cjwatson did yesterday), which is: why did it move, and should it stay where it is?
<cjwatson> let's table that for the kernel team's slot
<mvo> cjwatson: firmware> if that is the way forward, I can add code to update-manager
<dholbach> could it be that compiz crashed at the end of the session and apport shows the crash on session start?
<dholbach> ... and people think it crashed on session startup?
<heno> also, not sure if bug 193970 was raised last time
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 193970 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "iwl3945 | iwl4965: Wireless can't be activated after disabling kill switch" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193970
<pitti> from the bug comments, at least a good deal of those compiz crashes happen at logout
<pitti> right, what dholbach said
<randa> hello everyone.
<mdz> heno: pgraner just recently cleaned up and assigned that one
<heno> and finally I would encourage teams to look at http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/ esp the new regression section
<heno> mdz: ok, thanks
<mvo> cjwatson: I have the same feeling, might be someone just duping all segfaults to it
<pitti> mvo: someone> retracer probably
<cjwatson> [ACTION] desktop team to follow up on bug 145360
<MootBot> ACTION received:  desktop team to follow up on bug 145360
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 145360 in compiz "compiz.real crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145360
 * ScottK is here now.
<mvo> pitti: hm, I check that out
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<cjwatson> pitti:
<pitti> Specs: all done, no further changes planned
<pitti> RC Bugs:
<pitti>  - #274146 (f-u-s-a migration on upgrade): Solution uploaded by Michal today, testing now
<pitti>  - #261084 (g-p-m suspends again right after resume): Ted says it is generally on track, and a fallout of the new key handling in X. He has a test package which tries to work around this, and it got some testing with mixed results already.
<pitti>  - #256131 (failed to upgrade: "update-xmlcatalog: error: entity already registered"): Nobody looked at that yet, I'll assigned the bug to me and will deal with it soon
<pitti>  - #276878 (replace scrollkeeper with rarian on upgrade): easy dependendy change which Seb will do along with the 2.24.1 upgrades.
<pitti>  - #212098 (nautilus-share not notifying about required session restarting): We agreed on how a solution should look like and posted it to the bug report; a community member, Didier Roche (didrocks) said he'd work on this.
<pitti> Other problems:
<pitti>  - Unavailability of current language packs, which is a particular problem for KDE: The major blocker here is the utter slowness of Rosetta exports. Martin talked with Arne, and agreed on a plan how to get reasonably current language packs over the weekends, by manually combining the latest full and delta export from Rosetta.
<pitti>  - Import from libgphoto cameras is utterly slow, since f-spot now uses the fuse mount instead of directly talking to the camera, and does wrong assumptions; we need to revert that to only automount using gvfs if the user chooses to open the camera with nautilus, and otherwise keep the old and proven direct f-spot -> libgphoto import.
<pitti> ^ that's on Seb's list for monday
<pitti> Intrusive changes:
<pitti>  - F-spot was updated to new upstream version 0.5 this week, after lots of pressure from users/community, and it's part of GNOME 2.24.  Looking good so far.
<pitti>  - GIMP is at current version (2.6.1) now, too, similar case
<pitti>  - Ekiga 3.0 is less lucky, the proposed packages are totally broken, and nobody has the time to work on it; so we'll most likely ship with 2.0 and take the bashing (we can provide backports later)
<pitti>  - GNOME 2.24.1 is due on October 22, the Sebmaster and his little packaging army are standing by
<cjwatson> Rosetta has now managed to import kde-l10n-*, as far as I can see; Arne is going to be doing at least a delta update
<cjwatson> he tells me that full exports take about 7 days
<pitti> yeah, just discussing with him again
<pitti> we'll fake a full tarball by combining the old one plus deltas
<mdz> I'd like to add bug 280646 which is a regression with a patch, which I'd like to land for 8.10
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280646 in linux "ACPI brightness events no longer work on ThinkPad T61" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280646
<pitti> that *will* cause troubles later on, but for now we don't have a choice
<mdz> it's in my PPA right now but needs some regression testing I think
<pitti> (troubles: all future delta exports will be broken)
<cjwatson> pitti: we'll have time for a full update before 8.10, surely
<cjwatson> and indeed should start one going now, now that we have KDE imports
<pitti> right, for now we just f**ng need them ASAP
<cjwatson> d-i has started importing too, so we'll get installer translations (finally)
<pitti> cjwatson: btw, kernel -7 landed today (ABI change)
<mdz> eek
<cjwatson> I saw, thanks; the d-i change is committed
<pitti> whack-a-mole^WABI
<cjwatson> corresponds to 2.6.27 final AFAIK
<cjwatson> mdz: which bit is eek?
<mdz> cjwatson: the ABI change, though I assume it was expected
<mdz> I didn't expect that between rc8 and final
<cjwatson> I just figured it went with the territory of using 2.6.27 pre-release
<mdz> especially when there wasn't supposed to be an rc8 in the first place, but neither here nor there
<pgraner> mdz: regression fixing needed to touch internal structs
<mdz> no worries, was just surprised
<cjwatson> pitti: who should take 280646?
<cjwatson> actually, looks like mdz's going to upload that one once regression testing happens
<pitti> hm, anyone with a T61 here?
<mdz> I'm happy to upload it but need help getting it tested
<cjwatson> mdz: have you asked for testing in a better forum than a bug yet?
<mdz> pitti: I can test on T61, I need regression testing for others
<mdz> cjwatson: no, I just put it in the PPA an hour ago
<mdz> and was in a meeting since then
<pitti> ah; I'll test it on dell
<cjwatson> [ACTION] mdz to seek regression testing on 280646
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to seek regression testing on 280646
<cjwatson> there :)
<pitti> can we do a CFT on u-devel@?
<mdz> pitti: yes please
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<cjwatson> lool:
<ScottK> pitti: I thought the KDE bluetooth stuff was on the RC list?
<pitti> ScottK: hm, the bug got fixed tonight?
<pitti> oh, there was another one, right?
<ScottK> Yes.  The other one.
<persia> I still see 280997 on the list
<ScottK> Kudos for superm1 for the work he's done so far, but we're still at zero bluetooth capability in KDE currently.
<cjwatson> persia: can you represent the mobile team? looks as if lool isn't around
<cjwatson> we can leave you guys until later if that would be easier
<persia> Later would be better.  I'll review the outstandings, and try to describe them.
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<pgraner> Yes...
<cjwatson> slangasek is on his way
<pgraner> So, we now have 2.6.27 final as was noted earlier
<slangasek> morning, folks; sorry, didn't realize a meeting was expected today
<lool> didn't realize either
<pgraner> We are working thru a few late issues due to Linus closing the window on it so early.
<luisbg_> may I interrupt with a related issue when the kernel section is almost over?
<cjwatson> my bad, I will remember in future to remind earlier
<pgraner> As noted before the rf_kill issues, some ath5k wireless issues.
<pgraner> mostly we have focused the entire team to bug squash prior to kernel freeze next week.
<sbeattie> pgraner: also, before you joined, the intel wireless drivers moving to the restricted modules package was raised.
<sbeattie> s/drivers/firmware/
<pgraner> sbeattie: that will be uploaded today
<cjwatson> pgraner: the issue raised was actually slightly different
<pgraner> cjwatson: ???
<cjwatson> pgraner: the issue was that anyone without the restricted modules installed (it isn't mandatory, and some people choose not to do so) will have to install them in order to keep their networking
<ScottK> Is there a bug where I can read up on the Intel wireless driver move without districting the meeting?
 * ScottK is one of those people
<ScottK> districting/distracting
<cjwatson> so we can work around this in the update-manager if need be and mention it in the release notes, but that's another data point we should think of when deciding if maybe we shouldn't just move the firmware back to main
<cjwatson> pgraner: bug 279669, for the record
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279669 in linux "ipw2200 firmware moved to restricted" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279669
<cjwatson> also bug 269926
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269926 in linux-restricted-modules "missing iwlwifi-4965-2.ucode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269926
<pgraner> cjwatson: it was my understanding you and BenC worked thru that yesterday, no correct?
<pgraner> s/no/not/
<cjwatson> pgraner: I hadn't considered this issue
<cjwatson> like a court, new evidence => reexamine :)
<pgraner> cjwatson: I was mistaken then, ok I'll have to dig into it today
<cjwatson> we were talking about the l-r-m udeb business
<cjwatson> ScottK: (the above is all I know about)
<ScottK> Thanks.
<pgraner> cjwatson: ok, let me get on it and I'll post back to u-devel list
<cjwatson> thanks
<cjwatson> [ACTION] pgraner to look into firmware in restricted vs. main (279669/269926)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to look into firmware in restricted vs. main (279669/269926)
<cjwatson> pgraner: there's a large number of kernel bugs on http://people.ubuntu.com/~sbeattie/regression_tracker.html - has somebody done a pass through those to triage any that merit 8.10 fixes?
<heno> ogasawara: ^
<heno> can you report on that?
<ScottK> cjwatson and pgraner: luisbg_ has an Ubuntu Studio related kernel issue he'd like to discuss
<ogasawara> cjwatson: I've gone through the majority of them - a lot of which are in an Incomplete state and needing more info
<mdz> hat page isn't slow in firefox anymore for me
<cjwatson> ScottK: understood, I'll get to him at the end of this slot
<mdz> s/^/t/
<ScottK> OK
<pgraner> cjwatson: yes, most of the wireless are being addressed, the others are have been picked up by team members and should start dropping off the list early next week
<luisbg_> ScottK, I told cjwatson before that I want to add an item at the end of the Kernel Section :)
<cjwatson> pgraner: ok, that's good to hear, I was getting worried :)
<luisbg_> cjwatson, I didnt told you directly, sorry
<mdz> ogasawara: can you speak to bug 250139?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 250139 in linux "iwl4965: Can not allocate SKB buffers" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/250139
<cjwatson> luisbg_: I'd noticed
<mdz> ogasawara: I recently had it cause a crash for me (rather than just an error in dmesg), so it may be more serious than we thought
<ogasawara> mdz: hrm, let me look into it more
<mdz> ogasawara: it was acked by intel at one point, but doesn't seem to have been followed up
<ogasawara> mdz: I'll also ping my intel contacts about it
<mdz> ogasawara: thanks
<lool> pgraner: I wonder about the linux/linux-lpia merging; I think it's decided to keep them separate for intrepid now; is security team aware?
<pgraner> lool: correct, we will address for Jaunty
<cjwatson> luisbg_: ok, what's your bug?
<pgraner> pgraner: i believe so, wrt to the security team
<luisbg_> cjwatson, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-rt/+bug/281276
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281276 in linux-rt "Upgrade linux-rt to 2.6.27" [Undecided,New]
<pgraner> s/pgraner/lool/
<luisbg_> This is _crucial_ for Ubuntu Studio. We are very close to have to (for the first time) make a release without a real time kernel. If we can get a freeze exception though, the linux-rt of 2.6.27 will be ready for release.
<lool> lool: ok, thanks
<cjwatson> luisbg_: has anyone actually done the work?
<cjwatson> luisbg_: oh, I see abogani has. Does he have a git repository for it?
<luisbg_> cjwatson, alessio has done an incredible work of repatching the kernel after the move from .26 to .27
<luisbg_> in very small time
<cjwatson> I think it makes sense for the kernel team to review and sponsor that. pgraner?
<pgraner> cjwatson: ack
<luisbg_> cjwatson, I agree :)
<cjwatson> [ACTION] kernel team to review and sponsor linux-rt (281276)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kernel team to review and sponsor linux-rt (281276)
<cjwatson> luisbg_: thanks for raising that
<cjwatson> ok, we should move on
<luisbg_> cjwatson, thanks you for adding the action
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<cjwatson> we mostly have a pile of bits and pieces, I'll paste a quick summary
<cjwatson> Milestoned/targeted bugs:
<cjwatson> 149832 (partman-base: Installation doesn't change partition ID): I just ran across this again and decided it was important enough to fix for 8.10; I think it's because some commands in parted_server don't mark
<cjwatson> the partition table as changed
<cjwatson> 272772 (openoffice.org: firefox vs. abrowser): calc has promised this for the next upload
<cjwatson> 281100 (grub: update-grub needs to support the new uuid command): evand is working hard on this, needed for USB installs
<cjwatson> 247376 (fglrx-installer: undefined symbols when trying to load fglrx): bryce and I are in the process of agreeing an announcement which can go out about this, since it's unlikely to make it
<cjwatson> 273489 (Remaining Intrepid template approvals): approvals mostly done, translation import queue at 32000 or so but making fairly good progress, KDE translations are imported now
<cjwatson> 185311 (libxcb: hardy, locking assertion failure, xorg/libsdl): likely to be punted to jaunty :-(
<cjwatson> 274740 (totem: Enabling BBC plugin dramatically slows totem initialisation): no word yet, am going to give Collabora a deadline of next week
<cjwatson> 279288 (hw-detect: User interface exception request: Ask the user if they wish to activate dmraid arrays): awaiting ubuntu-release approval, needed because sometimes dmraid metadata presence doesn't imply dmrai
<cjwatson> d should be used
<cjwatson> 274076 (casper: Running the Intrepid LiveCD in persistent mode results in busybox prompt): breaks persistence on USB drives, no progress yet though, help welcome
<cjwatson> 207881 (xserver-xorg-video-intel: [Gutsy, Hardy] Black screen with mouse pointer on i830, intel driver): recently reopened, perhaps model-specific
<cjwatson> 264462 (xserver-xorg-video-ati: Radeon Driver fails to load on 2 Sep daily [ATI HD3870]): forwarded upstream but no word yet; presumably we can just switch autodetection for these models to vesa as a fallback p
<cjwatson> lan
<cjwatson> 204272 (pulseaudio: totem-gstreamer crashed with SIGSEGV in pa_stream_write()): bites lots of people but I haven't connected with Luke about this yet
<cjwatson> Still working through regressions and trying to decide importance, they're mostly network-manager and X from my point of view
<mdz> cjwatson: 185311: jaunty or jaunty+intrepid-updates?
<pitti> cjwatson: #247376> so maybe I should entirely disable the fglrx handler in jockey for now, to reduce confusion?
<cjwatson> the most important of those are the USB-related bugs (grub uuid and casper persistence) and the pulseaudio breakage that covers a lot of things
<cjwatson> pitti: yes, I think so
<mdz> cjwatson: talking of USB, what's the status of USB installation media?
<cjwatson> mdz: 185311> depends on the character of the fix; at the moment, honestly, there isn't even a candidate approach
<cjwatson> mdz: but note that hardy is affected too
<cjwatson> mdz: 281100 is needed, and evand just asked me to review that; other than that, the status of USB installation media is that we'll run usb-creator on the final image to create it
<lool> 264462> radeonhd might be a nicer option
<slangasek> xcb upstream's plan for fixing 185311 is an extensive code change
<cjwatson> and we are just hoovering up bugs in usb-creator in the meantime
<mdz> cjwatson: I'm comfortable with building/tweaking the final image by hand if necessary; usb-creator is not essential if that's a high-friction approach at this point
<cjwatson> mdz: usb-creator is the intended low-friction approach IMO
<mdz> cjwatson: so long as we have a single golden 8.10 one somewhere (for the shop)
<cjwatson> lool: see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubp-hoary/+bug/264462/comments/25
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 264462 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "Radeon Driver fails to load on 2 Sep daily [ATI HD3870]" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<cjwatson> mdz: err, only internally. I said all along we weren't going to publish USB images on releases.u.c (for space explosion reasons)
<cjwatson> mdz: we'll continue testing usb-creator for now and generate the final image by hand during the release sprint
<mdz> cjwatson: correct
<cjwatson> since Evan will be there
<cjwatson> I apologise for not having made it through the NM and X regression lists yet, they're a bit intimidating
<cjwatson> help on either taking regression-potential tags off where not required or targetting them appropriately would be welcome
<mdz> cjwatson: I can make a pass over them if it would help
<cjwatson> heno: do we have a convention for "yes, this is a regression, but we've determined that we won't fix it for this release"?
<mdz> just send me a URL
<sbeattie> cjwatson: bmurray has started to target for jaunty ones we won't fix.
<cjwatson> [ACTION] cjwatson to either pull his finger out with NM and X regression lists or send them to mdz
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to either pull his finger out with NM and X regression lists or send them to mdz
<heno> cjwatson: not really, because we want to track them historically as well
<cjwatson> sbeattie: err, how? you can't target bugs for jaunty until the distroseries is created
<heno> even if they are fixed or dropped
<slangasek> cjwatson, sbeattie: an ubuntu-release-notes task should be opened as well for those, so that we can evaluate whether it should be documented
<sbeattie> also, adding a task to ubuntu-release-notes project for documentation.
<cjwatson> heno: that's unfortunate, it basically means we have no way of marking the things on that list that have been evaluated
<sbeattie> cjwatson: ah, I think he might just targetting for "Later" then.
<heno> cjwatson: I agree we should cover that workflow case
<cjwatson> slangasek: noted
<heno> targeting for Later seems sane
<pgraner> cjwatson: need to add one item to the end pls.
<cjwatson> pgraner: go
<heno> sbeattie: can you separate 'Later' bugs out on your page?
<slangasek> sbeattie: in that case, can the ones targetted for 'later' be taken off the page?
<mdz> pgraner: did you get your ppp patch in?
<slangasek> (or moved to a separate list, yes)
<pgraner> cjwatson: last good boot, did you and Keybuk have time to review the data from BenC
<sbeattie> heno|slangasek: will separate.
<cjwatson> pgraner: no, you only reminded me of it at the start of this meeting :)
<heno> sbeattie: thanks
<mdz> pgraner: (bug 258801)
<pgraner> mdz: I had to revert back to the original due to some unexpected side effects. I can get the first one in and refine in an update
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258801 in ppp "Gets bogus DNS servers during PPP negotiation" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258801
<cjwatson> [ACTION] sbeattie to separate 'later' bugs in the regression tracker
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sbeattie to separate 'later' bugs in the regression tracker
<cjwatson> [ACTION] cjwatson/Keybuk to review last-good-boot data from BenC
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson/Keybuk to review last-good-boot data from BenC
<mdz> pgraner: is asac in the loop on thaht?
<pgraner> mdz: not yet, but he will be
<cjwatson> anyway, my slot is over time and I'm done
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<cjwatson> mathiaz:
<mathiaz> bug 84918 is being reviewed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 84918 in unattended-upgrades "package should set up sensible config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/84918
<mathiaz> mvo: is on it and we should have something fixed today
<cjwatson> mvo: let me know when you've done so and I'll sync the installer
<mathiaz> the next item is JeOS and the minimal install option in the installer.
<mathiaz> as of now the minimal option in the installer installs -standard and the -generic kernel
<mathiaz> whereas JeOS in hardy installed minimal and -virtual
<mathiaz> now that -virtual exists we may try to modify the seed to install -virtual
<cjwatson> I don't think the seed will help you
<cjwatson> it'd have to be done in cdimage
<mathiaz> cjwatson: I mean th ubuntu-server-minimal.preseed
<cjwatson> ok, that's a preseed not a seed :)
<cjwatson> however I'd question whether that's quite what people other than JeOS users will want from "minimal install"
<mdz> cjwatson: not only that, the 'seed' in preseed is unrelated ;-)
<mathiaz> cjwatson: right. It seems that CLI could be used for that.
<mathiaz> cjwatson: we may have to reword the option a little bit.
<cjwatson> mathiaz: but people other than JeOS users want minimal installations
<cjwatson> I'm not sure that you can just take over the option for that one use case
<mathiaz> cjwatson: correct.
<cjwatson> it was intended to encompass more than just the VM case
<mathiaz> cjwatson: the issue here is that we don't have the equivalent of JeOS in intrepid.
<cjwatson> well, you can probably do it by adding base-installer/kernel/override-image=linux-virtual :)
<cjwatson> let's talk about this in #-devel after the meeting
<mathiaz> cjwatson: IIUC the plan was to merge JeOS into the -server iso and for now we don't have that option.
<mathiaz> cjwatson: sure
<mathiaz> that's all I had from the server team - dendrobates didn't mention anything else.
<cjwatson> slangasek: can you take over, I need to help Kirsten carry some stuff
<slangasek> ack
<lool> cjwatson: (don't forget to #endmeeting in some time :)
<slangasek> lool, persia: are you ready to go with mobile?
<mdz> mathiaz: dendrobates mentioned a list of bugs yesterday
<lool> slangasek: I guess so
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile team
 * persia defers to lool, who is here now.
<lool> persia: I'll let you start with the bugs?
<mdz> bug 227848, bug 257739, bug 257739, bug 279754
<lool> Oh ok
<cjwatson> right, sorry about that
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227848 in open-iscsi "boot order wrong for iscsi" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227848
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257739 in linux "intrepid guest install with virtio net doesn't work" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279754 in kvm "Intrepid fails to install onto virtio block device" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279754
<lool> So the bug from last release meeting are all fix released
<lool> we just got lrm-lpia and the -mid images should now also install
<mathiaz> mdz: 257739 is fixed
<lool> The last important thing on the intrepid todo is completing ubiquity --automatic mode support
<mathiaz> mdz: others are being worked on
<lool> Mostly in a good shape, no particular bugs to raise; they were raised here already
<mdz> mathiaz: 279754 is not assigned or marked in progress, could you fix that?
<lool> (ath5k, grub uuid)
<lool> persia: You have anything more?
<persia> Not specifically.  280014 is blocking moving to --automatic, but that's in progress.
<lool> slangasek: We're done
<lool> any questions?
<mdz> mathiaz: also needs an importance set
<mathiaz> mdz: done
<cjwatson> persia: you saw my comments on 280014?
<persia> cjwatson, I did.  I'm currently chasing a timing issue between reading the preseeded value and checking it in the UI.  If you have time later, I'd be happy to share my work-in-progress and get a hint.
<cjwatson> certainly, after meeting
<persia> cjwatson, Thanks.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] motu-release
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] motu-release
<MootBot> New Topic:  motu-release
<cjwatson> echo echo echo
<slangasek> ScottK:
<ScottK> Nothing terribly concerning.  Everyone wants the latest and greatest and how come it wasn't uploaded last week.
<ScottK> We just executed a pretty major upgrade of our Sugar packages.  Fingers crossed on that one.
<ScottK> The rt kernel issue was the only thing that anyone specifically asked me to address.
<ScottK> Since I upgraded my laptop to Intrepid I will confess that I've gotten pretty distracted by KDE polishing for the release.
<ScottK> That's all.
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<mdz> ScottK: Sugar = sugar or Sugar = SugarCRM?
<ScottK> Sugar == sugar
<ScottK> IIRC SugarCRM isn't distributable.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Known regressions
<mdz> ScottK: (it's GPLv3 actually, but nevermind)
<ScottK> mdz: OK.  Must have been thinking of something else.
<slangasek> there are a few bugs that were highlighted in the beta overview that are still unresolved and ought to be looked at for final
<slangasek> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/beta#Known%20Issues
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/beta#Known%20Issues
<cjwatson> slangasek: (it wasn't on last meeting's mootbot log, but we should remember to check over outstanding actions)
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> the two I see that concern me are bug #270423 and bug #261977
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270423 in ubiquity "[kde] doesn't show dialog after installation" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270423
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261977 in dell "nv is chosen even if it doesn't support the card" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261977
<cjwatson> 270423 is on the intrepid-targeted list, although only medium; I've bumped it up to high. it's an infinite loop somewhere in ubiquity's logic but evand couldn't find it last time he tried
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> we'll have another look
<cjwatson> 261977 was supposed to be fixed?
<cjwatson> bah, apparently not
<mdz> cjwatson: reopened by mario on 7 oct
<cjwatson> looks like Timo has a handle on the problem though ...
<slangasek> yes, seems to be in progress now; I'll target it to intrepid so it's on the watch list
<slangasek> [TOPIC] hardware testing
<heno> We are running daily tests and preparing reports for vendors
<slangasek> heno: I haven't looked at the reporting site since before beta; are things on track there, and are we any closer to having a summary page that supports drill-down?
<heno> last report from yesterdays images:
<heno>  release |    disk    | runs | with_failures | tests | passed | failed | skipped
<heno> ---------+------------+------+---------------+-------+--------+--------+---------
<heno>  8.10    | 20081009   |    7 |             0 |    63 |     63 |      0 |       0
<heno>  None    | None       |    1 |             0 |     2 |      2 |      0 |       0
<cjwatson> zero failures!
<cjwatson> (is that true?)
<mdz> only 7 runs?
<slangasek> otoh, only 7 runs
<cjwatson> mm, I shall stop being excited
<heno> slangasek: the UI is non-intuitive still but you can drill down
<mdz> and how is it possible to run tests with no release or disk? ;-)
<heno> slangasek: I can walk you through it later
<slangasek> ok
<heno> mdz: I think those are the manual tests
<heno> cr3: do you have more detail?
<cr3> heno: that looks good
<cr3> heno: that report consolidates the 7 builds tested, right?
<heno> cjwatson: the automated tests are basic I'm afraid, manual testing has produced some failures
<heno> bug 271370 for example
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271370 in linux "Dell Dimension 9200 stalls when rebooting after installing 20080917" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271370
<cr3> mdz: the reason there were only 7 runs is that I run: ubuntu for i386/amd64, kubuntu for same, mythbuntu for same, ubuntustudio for same. so, that's a total of 8 images being tested automatically
<cr3> mdz: when testing images between milestones, we don't test all machines, we just test the builds themselves
<cjwatson> heno: such reports usually need dmidecode output, FYI
<slangasek> cr3, heno: ok, what do the test results from the beta look like then?
<heno> cr3: can you say a bit more about the tests launched on all (most) machines?
<cjwatson> heno: because that's what the reboot quirks are based on
<cr3> mdz: actually, I also test ubuntu-server, so that should be a total of 10 runs so 3 are missing for 20081009: ubuntu-server amd64, xubuntu i386 and mythbuntu amd64
<cjwatson> cr3: ^-
<mdz> heno,cr3: reporting bugs using ubuntu-bug will automatically include the pertinent info, please use that for every hardware bug
<cjwatson> mdz: as it happens they don't include dmidecode output
<slangasek> I think we still don't have an overview of "these are the most recent test results for each piece of hardware", unless that's changed in the UI now
<mdz> cr3: that's good, though we also need a report which covers all hardware (david murphy showed me a sample which looked good)
<mdz> cjwatson: they include most of the relevant bits via lshal, but that's easy to add
<cjwatson> mdz: oh, lshal of course, never mind then
<heno> slangasek: you can get that on the info page for each piece of hw,but not in a table for all hw
<cr3> mdz: but do you want all hardware tested every day? the point is that we have two types of runs, milestone and non-milestone. heno was giving up to date results for non-milestone, ie 20081009
<slangasek> heno: right, and going to pages for individual pieces of hardware is exactly what I don't want to do :
<slangasek> )
<mdz> cr3: happy to discuss it, but let's take it up after the meeting
<cr3> the tests being run consist mostly of: installation, daemons running, disk io performance and network io performance
<heno> slangasek: agreed. as mdz says schwuk has a prototype for that and is integrating it with the site
<slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
<slangasek> this unfortunately has continued to be a problem right up to beta, and even in the post-beta dailies (due to a package dependency regression, in that case)
<cjwatson> gimp?
<slangasek> so please be vigilant about size changes in the packages being uploaded; we are very close to the limit, and we don't want to have to do a lot of cowboying at the last minute to trim images down to size
<cjwatson> amd64 desktop looks not too far over the wire, but I agree it's awkward
<slangasek> gimp has added a lot of new library deps, but overall it doesn't seem to have had a large net impact
<cjwatson> we only have one substantial language available to drop
<slangasek> all the images have grown 2-3MB since beta, though, so there's really not much room at all to spare now
<pitti> so maybe we should watch out for putting some more packages on a diet
<mdz> pitti: don't we have a list somewhere of low-hanging fruit we haven't picked yet?
<slangasek> I take that back, most of the size change since beta *is* gimp; so yes, it has had an impact
<slangasek> it doesn't help that gimp 2.6 depends on webkit, I'm sure
<pitti> mdz: I don't
<slangasek> doko had been keeping lists, I'm not sure he has been for this cycle
<pitti> slangasek: argh, took some effort to revert the webkit stuff in yelp, etc.
<slangasek> pitti: well, apparently we didn't kick it out of main to signal to seb not to build-dep on it ;)
<pitti> we might be able to do something about that, though
<slangasek> that would definitely help us if we could
<pitti> please action that for me, I'll do some further inquiries
<slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to look into dropping webkit from gimp 2.6
<slangasek> I think that's everything I have, then
<cjwatson> outstanding actions
<slangasek> [TOPIC] outstanding actions
<cjwatson> hmm, I haven't been proxying
<cjwatson> [ACTION] pitti to look into dropping webkit from gimp 2.6
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to look into dropping webkit from gimp 2.6
<slangasek> looking at the list from last meeting, there don't appear to be any outstanding
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  outstanding actions
<cjwatson> oh, ok :)
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> so, thanks for that, folks :)
<pitti>   --without-webkit        don't build the help-browser plug-in
<pitti> MUHAHA
<mdz> I'd like to flag bug 222796
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 222796 in linux "Brightness up not generating ACPI event on Thinkpad T43p, T42, X31, X40, R52" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222796
<Keybuk> I'd like to flag bug #263211
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263211 in gnome-desktop "apps-wont-open-due-to-maximum-clients-reached-error" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263211
<mdz> tjaalton is looking into it, and although the regression status is unclear in the bug comments, I think it warrants an update if we can nail it
<Syntux> Who's here for Ubuntu Arabic meeting ? ÙÙ ÙÙØ§ ÙØ­Ø¶ÙØ± Ø§Ø¬ØªÙØ§Ø¹ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ
<cjwatson> Syntux: I'm afraid the release meeting is running late
<lool> Syntux: Sorry, still not completely done with release meeting
<mdz> Keybuk: eek
<Syntux> Sure, release is much more priority than ours, just checking who's there to get them into some other channel.
<slangasek> mdz: agreed; and I see that it's targeted aleady, and probably doesn't warrant a milestone at this point?
<Keybuk> mdz: I'm hitting it roughly once a day it appears
<mdz> slangasek: I have a T42 running 8.04 where this is working, and intend to check into it over the weekend.
<mdz> slangasek: if it's a regression, I will milestone it and work on it
<lool> Keybuk: I get that from time to time
<slangasek> mdz: ok
<slangasek> [ACTION] mdz to follow up on bug #222796
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 222796 in linux "Brightness up not generating ACPI event on Thinkpad T43p, T42, X31, X40, R52" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222796
<slangasek> Keybuk: looks like 263211 is already milestoned and targeted; I'm assuming we don't need to fix it right now in the meeting, then :)
<mdz> Keybuk: when did it start?  I've never seen that
<cjwatson> nor I
<cjwatson> but, anyway, it is serious if it's happening even if it's not to everyone
<slangasek> quite
<Keybuk> mdz: the day I updated to Intrepid
<slangasek> shall we adjourn and take up that bug on #-devel, though?
<lool> (for me as well)
<mdz> slangasek: sounds good
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:49.
<slangasek> :)
<cjwatson> snap
<slangasek> thanks, all
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Arabic Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 14 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 15 Oct 12:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team
<Syntux> Who's here for Ubuntu Arabic meeting ? ÙÙ ÙÙØ§ ÙØ­Ø¶ÙØ± Ø§Ø¬ØªÙØ§Ø¹ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ
<stuntgp2k1> Ø£ÙØ§
<Syntux> ÙÙØªØ§Ø²
<smelian> Ø³ÙØ§Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙÙ
<Syntux> Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ù
<smelian> ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ­Ø§Ù
<Rafik> Ø³ÙØ§Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙÙ !
<stuntgp2k1> Ø¨Ø®ÙØ±
<Syntux> Who's here for Ubuntu Arabic meeting ? ÙÙ ÙÙØ§ ÙØ­Ø¶ÙØ± Ø§Ø¬ØªÙØ§Ø¹ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ
<dholbach> Ø¯Ø§ÙÙÙ :-)
<smelian> Ø§ÙØ§
<stuntgp2k1> Ø£ÙØ§ ÙØ­ÙØ¯ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØºØ±Ø¨
<dholbach> (although I'm pretty sure, I managed to mess up just writing my own name :-))
 * dholbach stays quiet now
<Syntux> dholbach, surprisingly its correct :P gut gut :-)
<Rafik> :)
<dholbach> hehe :)
<smelian> ÙØ°Ø§ Ø§Ø¬ØªÙØ§Ø¹ Ø¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙÙØ§ Ø§ÙØ¬ÙÙØ²Ù Ø
<Syntux> smelian, Ø¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
<smelian> Ø¹ÙÙ ØªÙÙÙÙØ§ Ø¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙÙ Ø³ÙØ­ØªÙØ§
<Syntux> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:03. The chair is Syntux.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Syntux> Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙÙ, Ø§ÙÙØ§ Ù Ø³ÙÙØ§ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§Ø¬ØªÙØ§Ø¹ Ø§ÙØ§ÙÙ ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù Ø§Ø¬ÙØ¯Ù Ø§ÙØ§Ø¬ØªÙØ§Ø¹ ÙÙØ¬ÙØ¯Ù ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØµÙÙ Ø§ÙØªØ§ÙÙÙ http://wiki.ubuntu-arabic.org/%D8%A7%D8%AC%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%B9_1
<Syntux> Ø³ÙÙÙÙ Ø¨ÙÙØ§ÙØ´Ù Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØ¯ Ø§ÙÙØ°ÙÙØ±Ù Ø¨ØºØ¶ Ø§ÙÙØ¸Ø± Ø¹Ù ØªØ±ØªÙØ¨ÙØ§ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙÙØ¹
<Rafik> ÙÙØ§ÙÙØ© ÙØ¨Ø¯Ø§ Ø¨Ø§Ù ÙÙØ¶ÙØ¹ Ø
<Syntux> [TOPIC] Ø§ÙØªÙØ§Ø¡ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ© ÙØ§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù Ø¹ÙÙ ÙØ§ÙÙØ´Ø¨Ø§Ø¯
<MootBot> New Topic:  'F*E'! 'DA1B 'D91(J) D'H(HF*H 'D91(J 9DI D'HF4('/
<Syntux> ok that's a bug :D
<Syntux> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:05.
<Syntux> Ø§ÙØªÙØ§Ø¡ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ© ÙØ§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù Ø¹ÙÙ ÙØ§ÙÙØ´Ø¨Ø§Ø¯
<Rafik> Syntux, i reported that bug already
<Syntux> Ø­Ø§ÙÙØ§ ÙÙØ¬Ø¯ Ø¹Ø¯Ø¯ ÙØ§ Ø¨Ø£Ø³ Ø¨Ù ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø§ÙÙØ­ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ
<Rafik> Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§Ø±Ø¯ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ­ÙØ¯ ÙÙ ÙØ°Ù Ø§ÙØ­Ø§ÙØ©
<Syntux> ÙØ¯ÙÙØ§ ÙØ±ÙÙ ÙØ§Ø­Ø¯ Ø±Ø³ÙÙ Ù ÙØ±ÙÙÙÙ ÙØ¹Ø§ÙÙÙ ØºÙØ± Ø±Ø³ÙÙÙ, Ù ÙØ­Ø§ÙÙØ§Øª ÙØªÙØ¹ÙÙ ÙØ±Ù ÙÙ Ø¯ÙÙ Ø§Ø®Ø±Ù
<Syntux> ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ØªÙØ§Ø¬Ù ÙØ´ÙÙÙ ÙØ´ØªØ±ÙÙ, Ù ÙÙ ØªÙØ¯ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø¨Ø§ÙÙØºÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ Ø¹ÙØ¯ÙØ§ ÙØ·ÙØ¨ ÙÙÙØ§, Ø¨Ø¹Ø¶ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ§ÙØª ÙØ§Ø¶Ø­Ù Ø¨Ø§Ø®ØªÙØ§Ø±ÙØ§ ÙØºÙ ØºÙØ± Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ ÙØªÙØ¯ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù
<Rafik> ÙØ±ÙØ¯ Ø§Ù ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙØªÙØ¬Ø© ÙØªÙØ­ÙØ¯ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ©
<ALAYA> excuse me, I dont have arabic keybord right now
<Syntux> ÙØ«Ù Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§Ø±Ø¯ÙÙ Ø§Ø®ØªØ§Ø± Ø§ÙØ§ÙØ¬ÙÙØ²ÙÙ, Ø§ÙØªÙÙØ³Ù Ù Ø§ÙÙØ¨ÙØ§ÙÙ Ø§Ø®ØªØ§Ø± Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙØ³ÙÙ
<Syntux> ALAYA, it's ok
<Syntux> Ø·Ø¨Ø¹Ø§ ÙØ°Ø§ Ø¬Ø²Ø¡ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ­Ø±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØªÙ ÙÙØªÙÙÙØ§ Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ù ÙÙÙ ÙØ§ Ø²Ø§Ù Ø§ÙÙØ³ØªØ®Ø¯Ù Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙÙØ§Ø¬Ù ÙØ´ÙÙÙ Ù ÙÙ ØªÙÙØ± Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø¨Ø§ÙÙØºÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ
<Syntux> Ù Ø­ÙØ« Ø§ÙÙ ÙØ§ ÙÙØ¬Ø¯ ÙØ±ÙÙ ÙØ­ÙÙ ÙØ§Ø­Ø¯ ÙØ³ØªØ·ÙØ¹ ØªÙØ¯ÙÙ ÙØ°Ø§ Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø¸ÙØ± Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙØ­Ù ÙÙØ°Ù Ø§ÙÙØ´ÙÙÙ
<stuntgp2k1> Ø¬ÙØ¯
<Rafik> Ø¨ÙÙ ÙÙØ³ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø¯ÙØ¯ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ³ØªØ®Ø¯ÙÙÙ ÙÙØ¬ÙØ¯ÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ ÙÙØ§ÙØ¹ Ø§Ø®Ø±Ù Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙØ§ Ø§Ù ÙØ¬ÙØ¹ÙÙ
<Syntux> Ù Ø§ÙÙÙØ±Ù Ø§ÙÙØ·Ø±ÙØ­Ù ÙÙ ØªØ´Ø¬ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø§ÙÙØ­ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ ØªØ®ØµÙØµ Ø¨Ø¹Ø¶ ÙÙ ÙÙØª Ø§ÙØ±Ø§Ø¯ÙØ§ ÙÙØ¹ÙÙ ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
<Syntux> ÙØ¯ ÙØ§ ØªÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØºÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ Ø§Ù Ø§ÙÙØ³ØªØ®Ø¯Ù Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ÙØªÙØ§ÙØ§Øª Ø§Ø­Ø¯Ù Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ«Ù Ø§ÙØ§Ø±Ø¯ÙÙ Ø§Ù Ø§ÙØªÙÙØ³Ù Ø§Ù Ø§ÙÙØ¨ÙØ§ÙÙ
<Syntux> Ù ÙÙÙ ØªØ³ØªØ·ÙØ¹ ÙØ°Ù Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø§Ø±ÙØ§Ø¯ Ø§ÙÙÙØªÙÙÙ Ø¨Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ Ø§Ù Ø§ÙØ¨Ø§Ø­Ø«ÙÙ Ø¹Ù Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø¨Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ ÙÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
<Syntux> ÙØ°Ù Ø§ÙØ·Ø±ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ­ÙØ¯Ù ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
<ALAYA> !
<Syntux> Ø­Ø§ÙÙØ§ ÙØªÙÙØ± ÙÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙØ§ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØµØ§Ø¯Ø± Ù Ø§ÙØªÙÙÙÙ ÙÙØ¹ÙÙ ÙØ§Ù ÙØ±ÙÙ ÙÙ ÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø§ÙÙÙ
<Syntux> Ù ÙÙ ÙØ§ ÙØ­ØªØ§Ø¬Ù  ÙÙ ØªØ´Ø¬ÙØ¹ Ø£Ø¹Ø¶Ø§Ø¡ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø§ÙØ§Ø®Ø±Ù ÙÙØ¹ÙÙ ÙØ¹ÙØ§
<ALAYA> !(mean I ask permission to speak ;) )
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<Rafik> ALAYA, go ahead no need for that :)
<ALAYA> ok
<ALAYA> I think it's better to take one or more project, then ask LoCo's to participate, like you did Syntux in the translation project on launchpad
<ALAYA> I mean, it's better to focalise in unifing efforts around some projects then to unifing groups and later the efforts
<Rafik> Ù ÙÙÙ ÙÙÙ ØªÙØ­Ø¯ Ø§ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø¯ÙÙ ØªÙØ­ÙØ¯ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø
<ALAYA> this is an oprinion
<Syntux> ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ ÙØ°Ø§ Ù ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ´ÙÙÙ ØªÙÙÙ Ø¨Ø§Ù Ø¨Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù ÙØ§ ØªØ¯Ø¹ÙÙØ§ ÙØºØ§ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§Ù, Ù ÙØ§ ÙÙØ¬Ø¯ ÙØ¯Ù Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø¯Ø¯ Ø§ÙÙØ§ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØªØ·ÙØ¹ÙÙ
<Syntux> Ø§ÙØ­Ù Ø§ÙÙÙØªØ±Ø­:
<ALAYA> Syntux: even in our team we have this problem (nomber of volonteers and contiuity in effort)*
<Syntux> Ø­ÙØ« Ø§Ù Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù Ø³ÙÙÙÙ Ø¨Ø§ÙØªØ®ÙÙÙ Ø¹Ù Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ­ÙÙÙ Ù Ø­ÙØ« Ø§ÙÙ Ø³ÙÙÙÙ Ø¨ØªØ­ÙÙ Ø¬Ø²Ø¡ ÙÙ ÙØ³Ø¤ÙÙÙØ§ØªÙÙ, Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø§ÙÙØ­ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ Ø§ÙØªØ¹Ø§ÙÙ ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù Ù ÙÙ Ø­ØªÙ Ø¨Ø§ÙØ§Ø®Ø¨Ø§Ø± Ø¹ÙÙ
<Syntux> Ù Ø¹ÙÙ ÙÙ ÙØ±ÙÙ ØªØ®ØµÙØµ Ø¬Ø²Ø¡ ÙÙ ÙÙØªÙ ÙÙØ¹ÙÙ ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
<Rafik> Ø§ÙØªÙØ§Ø¡ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ© Ø¨Ø¯Ø§ÙØ© ÙØ°ÙÙ
<Rafik> ÙÙØªØ­Ø³ÙØ³ ÙØ¨Ù ÙÙ Ø´ÙØ¦
<Syntux> ØªØ¨Ø¯Ø§Ø¡ ÙØ°Ù Ø§ÙØ¹ÙÙÙÙ Ø¨Ø§ÙØ®Ø±Ø§Ø· Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø§ÙÙØ­ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù Ø¹Ø¨Ø± Ø§ÙÙÙØ´Ø¨Ø§Ø¯
<Syntux> Ù ÙÙ Ø«Ù ØªÙØ§ÙÙ ÙØ¯Ø±Ø§Ø¡ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø§ÙÙØ­ÙÙÙ ÙØ¹ ÙØ¬ÙØ³ Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙÙØ¶Ø¹ Ø®Ø·ÙØ· Ø¹Ø±ÙØ¶Ù ÙÙØªØ¹Ø§ÙÙ
<Syntux> ÙØ¹ÙÙØ§ ÙØ§ ÙÙØ¬Ø¯ ÙÙØ§ Ø´Ø±ÙØ· Ø§Ù Ø·ÙØ¨Ø§Øª ØºÙØ± Ø§ÙØªØ¹Ø§ÙÙ
<Rafik> ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙ ÙÙ ÙÙØªØ³Ø¨ ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙØ¬Ø¯ ÙØ³Ù Ø§ÙØ¶Ø§ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù Ù ÙØ°Ù Ø§ÙØ¨Ø¯Ø§ÙØ©
<ALAYA> 1 min
<Syntux> ÙÙ ÙØ¹ÙØ§ Ø§ÙÙÙÙ Ø§Ù ÙÙ ÙØ¯Ø±Ø§Ø¡ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø§ÙÙØ­ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ Ø
<ALAYA> please
<Syntux> ALAYA, you don't have to ask for permission, just say it :-)
<Rafik> Syntux, ÙØ¹Ù. Ø§ÙØ§ Ø¹Ù Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØªÙÙØ³Ù
<ALAYA> if you have some thing clear: like a project
<ALAYA> you can discuss
<ALAYA> if not
<Rafik> Ø²ÙØ§Ø¯. Ø¹ÙØ¯ÙØ§ Ø§ÙÙÙÙØ¹
<Rafik> Ø§ÙÙÙØªØ¯ÙØ§Øª Ù Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù
<ALAYA> you are saying to them: come with us to do some thing we don't know yet
<Syntux> Ø¹ÙÙØ§, Ø§ÙÙÙØ§Ù Ø§ÙÙØ·Ø±ÙØ­ Ø®Ø· Ø¹Ø±ÙØ¶ ÙÙÙØ§Ø³Ø¨ ÙØ§ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙØ§Ø· Ø§ÙØ§ØªÙÙ , ÙØ«ÙØ§ Ø§ÙÙÙÙØ¹, Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù, Ø§ÙØªØ±Ø¬ÙÙ
<Syntux> ÙÙ ÙÙ ÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§Ø¯Ø®Ø± ÙÙØ§ ÙÙØª Ø¹Ø¶Ù ÙØ§Ø­Ø¯ Ø³ÙÙÙÙ ÙØ±ÙÙÙØ§ ÙÙÙÙ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ«Ø± ÙÙ 5 Ø§Ø´Ø®Ø§Øµ ÙØ§Ø¹ÙÙÙ, ÙØ¹ÙÙÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ ØªÙØ¯ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ®Ø¯ÙÙ Ù ØªÙØ³ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙÙØ¬ÙÙØ¹Ù
<Syntux> ALAYA,
<Syntux> ÙØ§Ø¶Ø­ Ø§ÙÙ ØºÙØ± ÙØ·ÙØ¹ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§Ø´ÙØ§ÙÙØ§Øª Ø§ÙØªÙ ÙÙØ§Ø¬ÙØ§
<Rafik> ÙÙ ÙØ§ ÙØ·ÙØ¨ ØªØ®ØµÙØµ Ø´Ø®Øµ ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø¨ÙØ¯ ÙÙØªÙØ³ÙÙ ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù Ø
<ALAYA> If you have some thing clear (even one or two little project to do) it will be more convenient .And like I said: it's my opinion.
<Syntux> Ø§Ù Ø­ØªÙ ÙØ£ÙÙ ÙØµÙÙØ§ Ø§ÙØ§Ù
<Syntux> ALAYA, again, it's clear that you are not familiar with the issues that we have in Arabic team starting from recognition, running the website, translation, community.
<Syntux> If you check the mailing list archive and LP it should give you clear idea on what we have done so far and what we are planning to do
<Syntux> Ø§ÙØ§ÙÙØ§Ø± Ù Ø§ÙÙØ´Ø§Ø±ÙØ¹ Ù Ø§ÙÙØ´Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙØ¬ÙØ¯Ù ÙØ«ÙØ±Ù Ù Ø§ÙØ­ÙØ¯ ÙÙÙ
<Syntux> ÙØ´ÙÙØªÙØ§ Ø§ÙØ§Ù Ø¹Ø¯Ø¯ Ø§ÙØ§Ø¹Ø¶Ø§Ø¡ Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø¹ÙÙÙ
<Rafik> Ø§ÙÙØ´ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ§ Ø¹Ø¯Ù Ø§ÙØªØ¹Ø±ÙÙ Ø¨Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ù Ø§Ø­ÙØ§ÙØ§ Ø¹Ø¯Ù Ø§ÙØ§Ø¹ØªØ±Ø§Ù Ø¨Ù Ù ÙÙØ±Ø§ÙÙ
<bay199> Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙÙ
<Rafik> Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ù
<smelian> ÙØ¹ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ù
<Syntux> Ù Ø§ÙÙ ÙØ·ÙØ¨Ù Ø§ÙØ§Ù Ø§Ù ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§Ø¹Ø¶Ø§Ø¡ Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø¹ÙÙÙ Ø¶ÙÙ ÙØºØ§Øª Ø§Ø®Ø±Ù Ø§Ù ÙØ±Ù Ø§Ø®Ø±Ù Ø¨Ø§ÙØ¹ÙÙ ÙØ¹ÙØ§
<Syntux> Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ù.
<Syntux> Ù Ø·Ø¨Ø¹Ø§ ÙØ´ÙÙÙ Ø¹Ø¯Ø¯ Ø§ÙØ§Ø¹Ø¶Ø§Ø¡ ÙØ§Ø¶Ø­Ù Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø¹Ø¯Ø¯ Ø§ÙØ­Ø¶ÙØ± Ø§ÙÙÙÙ
<stuntgp2k1> Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ù
<Syntux> Ø§Ù ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¬Ø§Ø²ÙØ§ ÙÙ Ø¯ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØªØ±Ø¬ÙÙÙ , Ø§Ù Ø§Ø¯Ø§Ø±Ù Ø§ÙÙÙÙØ¹
<Syntux> Ø³ÙÙÙÙ Ø§Ø¯Ø§Ø±Ù ÙØ°Ø§ Ø§ÙØ§Ø¬ØªÙØ§Ø¹ Ø§ÙØ§Ø® Ø±ÙÙÙ.
<Rafik> ÙÙØ´ Ø
<Rafik> Syntux, ÙÙÙÙ ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ«Ø± Ø¨Ø§ÙØªÙØ³ÙØ¹ ÙØ¹ ÙÙÙÙ ÙØ§ÙÙØ³Ù
<Syntux> Ø·Ø¨Ø¹Ø§, Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙØ§ Ø§ÙØªØ®Ø·ÙØ· ÙØ­Ø¶ÙØ± Ø§Ø¬ØªÙØ§Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø¯Ù
<Rafik> Ù Ø¨ÙØ° Ø§ÙØ·Ø±ÙÙØ© ÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ§Ø¹ØªØ±Ø§Ù Ø¨Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø±Ø³ÙÙØ§ ÙÙØ´Ø±ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ
<Rafik> Ù Ø¹ÙØ¯ÙØ§ ØªÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ´Ø§ÙÙ Ø®ØµÙØµØ§ Ø§ÙÙØªØ¹ÙÙØ© Ø¨ÙÙÙØ© Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ
<Syntux> Ø§ØªÙÙÙ ÙØ°Ø§ ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø¨Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¶Ù Ø§ÙØ°ÙØ§Ø¨ ÙÙÙØ¬ÙØ³ Ø¨Ø¨Ø¹Ø¶ Ø§ÙØ§ÙØ¬Ø§Ø²Ø§Øª
<Rafik> ÙØ¹Ù Ø´ÙØ¦ Ø·Ø¨ÙØ¹Ù
<Rafik> ÙÙ Ø®ÙØ§Ù Ø´ÙØ± ÙÙÙÙ ÙÙÙÙ Ø¬Ø§ÙØ²ÙÙ
<Syntux> ÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙÙØ§ Ø§ÙØªØµÙÙØª Ø¹ÙÙ Ø´Ø¹Ø§Ø± Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§ÙØ
<Syntux> http://wiki.ubuntu-arabic.org/%D8%B4%D8%B9%D8%A7%D8%B1_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%82
<bay199> ÙÙÙÙ Ø§Ø¶Ø§ÙÙ ÙØ§ Ø­ÙØ§Ø¹Ù
<Rafik> ØªÙØ¶Ù
<Syntux> bay199, Ø§ÙÙØ¯, ØªÙØ¸Ù
<bay199> ÙÙ ÙÙÙÙ Ø§Ù ØªØ¹ÙÙÙØ§ Ø´Ø¹Ø§Ø± Ø¨Ø¯ÙÙ Ø¹Ø§ÙÙÙ Ø­ØªÙ ÙØªÙÙÙ ÙÙ ÙØ¶Ø¹Ù ÙÙ Ø´ÙØ·Ø© Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ø±Ù
<Rafik> ÙÙÙÙ ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ØµØ­Ø§Ø¨ Ø§ÙØ§ÙØªØ±Ø§Ø­Ø§Øª Ø·Ø¨Ø¹Ø§
<Syntux> bay199, ÙÙÙÙ Ù ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ§ Ø¹ÙÙÙØ§ Ø§ÙØªØµÙÙØª Ø¹ÙÙ Ø´Ø¹Ø§Ø±
<bay199> Ø·ÙØ¨ Ø¬ÙÙÙ
<Syntux> Ø±ÙÙÙ, ÙÙÙÙ ØªØ¬ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙØªØµÙÙØª
<Rafik> ÙØ¹Ù
<Syntux> Ø§ÙØ±Ø¬Ø§Ø¡ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ­Ø§Ø¶Ø±ÙÙ Ø¨Ø®ØµÙØµ Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ Ø§ÙØªØµÙÙØª Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ´Ø¹Ø§Ø±Ø§Øª Ø§ÙÙÙØªØ±Ø­Ù
<Syntux> http://wiki.ubuntu-arabic.org/%D8%B4%D8%B9%D8%A7%D8%B1_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%82
<Syntux> Ø¨ÙØªØ§Ø¨Ù Ø±ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ´Ø¹Ø§Ø±
<Rafik> ØªÙØ¶ÙÙ :)
<Syntux> ÙØ¹ ØªÙØ¶ÙØ­ ÙÙØ§Ø°Ø§ ØªÙ ÙØ°Ø§ Ø§ÙØ§Ø®ØªØ¨Ø§Ø± Ù Ø§Ù ÙØ§Ù ÙÙØ§ÙÙ Ø§Ù Ø§ÙØªØ±Ø§Ø­ ÙØªØ¹Ø¯ÙÙÙ Ø¨Ø´ÙÙ Ø¨Ø³ÙØ·
<Rafik> stuntgp2k1, bay199 smelian
<bay199> Ø¨Ø§Ù ÙØ§ Ø­ÙØ§Ø¹Ù
<anmar> Salam Guys. Sorry no arabic keyboard today :(
<bay199> Ø´Ø¹Ø§Ø± Ø±ÙÙ Ø§Ø±Ø¨Ø¹Ù ÙÙÙ ÙÙ ÙÙÙÙ ØªØºÙØ± Ø§ÙØ®Ø·
<bay199> Ø§ÙÙÙ ÙØ¹ÙÙÙ ÙØ§ Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø±
<stuntgp2k1> Ø±ÙÙ 1 Ø£Ù Ø±ÙÙ 4 Ø¥Ø°Ø§ Ø£Ø¶ÙÙ Ø­Ø±Ù: Ø¶
<Rafik> Ø§ÙØ§ Ø§Ø®ØªØ§Ø± Ø§ÙØ±ÙÙ 6 Ù ÙÙÙÙ Ø§Ø¬ÙÙ ÙØ¹ Ø§Ø¶Ø§ÙØ© ÙÙÙØ© Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ ÙÙ Ø´Ø¹Ø§Ø± 4
<anmar> bay199: heheh.
<Syntux> anmar, it's ok
 * Syntux never had Arabic keyboard. 
<anmar> I vote for number 4
<anmar> But I would change the font.
<Syntux> my vote goes to # 1 but with #3 fonts.
<bay199> Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø± Ø§ÙØ§ ÙØ¹Ø§Ù ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ®Ø·
<Rafik> stuntgp2k1, Ø±ÙÙ 1 Ø
<lbb> 3
<bay199> Ø±ÙÙ 6 ÙØ°Ø§ÙÙ Ø¬ÙÙÙ
<stuntgp2k1> ÙØ¹Ù ÙØ£ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ£ÙØ±Ø¨ Ø¥ÙÙ Ø´Ø¹Ø§Ø± Ø£ÙØ¨ÙØªÙ
<lbb> I mean number 2
<anmar> I recommend we use the font used in this screenshot (Nautilus's menues) (http://art.arabeyes.org/albums/arabbix/Arabbix_Gimp.png)
<Rafik> Ø¹ÙØ¯ÙØ§ :
<Syntux> Rafik, ÙÙ ØªØ¬ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙØªØµÙÙØªØ§Øª Ø
<Rafik> stuntgp2k1 + Syntux : 1
<Rafik> lbb : 3
<Rafik> bay199, anmar : 4
<Rafik> Rafik : 6
<Rafik> ÙØ§ ÙØ³ÙØª Ø§Ø­Ø¯ Ø
<bay199> Ø§ÙØ§ ÙØ°Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ÙØªØ±Ø­ 6
<Syntux> lol
<Rafik> Ø§ÙÙÙ, Ø¹ÙÙÙØ§ ÙØ§Ø¬ØªÙØ§Ø± Ø¨ÙÙ 1 Ù 6
<Syntux> Rafik, you are the team leader,you have VETO.
<smelian> 4
<Rafik> ØªØ¹ÙØ¯Øª Ø§ÙØ§ÙÙØ±
<smelian> ÙØ§
<smelian> Ø§ÙØ§ Ø§ÙØµØ¯ 5
<stuntgp2k1> Ø£Ø¹ØªÙØ¯ Ø£Ù Ø±ÙÙ 6 ÙØ­Ø¯Ø¯ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ Ø¬ØºØ±Ø§ÙÙØ§ Ù Ø±ÙÙ 1 Ø£ÙØ³Ø¹ Ø´ÙÙÙÙØ©
<Syntux> ÙØ§, Ø§ÙØªØ§ Ø¹ÙØ¯Ù ØµÙØª Ø«Ø§ÙÙ :)
<The-Grub> Hello everybody, i'm from morocco
<stuntgp2k1> Ø´ÙÙÙÙØ©
<smelian> ÙÙÙ ÙÙ ÙØªÙ ØªØ¹Ø¯ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ¬ÙÙ ÙØªØµÙØ± Ø¯Ø§Ø¦Ø±Ù Ø¹Ø§Ø¯ÙÙ
<anmar> The-Grub: hello. We are voting on the logo.
<smelian> ÙÙØªÙ Ø¶Ø¨Ø· Ø§ÙØ®Ø· Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
<Rafik> The-Grub, Ø³ÙØ§Ù
<The-Grub> ok
<anmar> The-Grub: wanna vote?
<Syntux> The-Grub, we are voting on the logo, http://wiki.ubuntu-arabic.org/%D8%B4%D8%B9%D8%A7%D8%B1_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%82 please make your vote now
<The-Grub> yep
<The-Grub> how ?
<Syntux> The-Grub, just check that page and paste the logo number you favor here.
<The-Grub> ok thank you :)
<leoquant> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Ubuntu Arabic 14 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 14 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 15 Oct 12:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team
<Rafik> ÙØ§ Ø¬ÙØ§Ø¹Ø© Ø¹ÙØ¯Ù ÙÙØ±Ø©
<The-Grub> Number 2
<The-Grub> plz
<Syntux> ØªØ¨ÙÙ ÙØ¯ÙÙØ§ 15 Ø¯ÙÙÙÙ, Ø®ÙÙÙØ§ ÙØªØ­Ø±Ù Ø¨Ø³Ø±Ø¹Ù
<The-Grub> in logo number 6
<The-Grub> there is an error on the map
<Rafik> Ø§ÙÙØ§ Ø§ÙØ´Ø¹Ø§Ø± ÙÙÙÙ ÙÙ ÙÙÙØ© Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙØµÙØ±Ø© Ø§Ù Ø§ÙØµÙØ±Ø© ÙÙØ· Ø
<smelian> brb
<Rafik> ÙØ¹ÙÙ ÙÙÙÙ ÙØ®ØªØ§Ø± ØµÙØ±Ø© ÙÙ Ø§Ø­Ø¯ Ø§ÙØ´Ø¹Ø§Ø±Ø§Øª Ù ÙØ¶ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙÙØ©
<Rafik> The-Grub, how ?
<Syntux> Ø§ÙØ§ Ø§Ø¹ØªØ°Ø± Ù ÙÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ°ÙØ§Ø¨ Ø§ÙØ§Ù
<smelian> Ø§ÙÙØ¬ÙÙ ÙØ§ÙÙØ§ Ø¯Ø§Ø¹Ù ÙØ£ÙÙØ§ ÙÙØ³ Ø§ÙÙ ÙÙØ¬ÙØ¯Ù ÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§Ø³Ø±Ø§Ø¦ÙÙ
<Syntux> I'm sorry but I have to run now, Salam all.
<The-Grub> Rafik, on the map of morocco
<smelian> Ø³ÙØ§Ù
<bay199> Ø§ÙÙØ¬ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§ Ø§Ø´ÙÙ Ø´ÙÙÙØ§ ÙØ«Ù Ø§ÙØ²Ø®Ø§Ø±Ù
<anmar> smelian: I think you are over analysing it. It is just a simple logo.
<Rafik> ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§ÙØ© Syntux
<The-Grub> can i speak french here ? because my english so bad :s
<anmar> Syntux: salam.
<smelian> i know
<anmar> The-Grub: you can try of course.. who will respond is another matter :)
<Rafik> The-Grub, ok, i'll translate
<The-Grub> ok thank you
<The-Grub> sur la carte du maroc y a un trait au niveau du sahara
<The-Grub> Ã§a veut dire que le polisario est representÃ©
<The-Grub> pour nous les marocains
<The-Grub> on accepte pas se genre de chose
<The-Grub> est ce que vous pouvez trouver une solution ?
<stuntgp2k1> ÙØ¸Ø±Ø§ ÙØ¯ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙØª Ø£ÙØªØ±Ø­ Ø¥Ø¶Ø§ÙØ© ÙØ§Ø¦ÙØ© ØªØµÙÙØª ÙÙ ÙÙÙØ¹ ubuntu-arabic.org
<Rafik> Ø§Ù. ÙØ´ÙÙØ© Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙÙØ³Ø§Ø±ÙÙ
<The-Grub> je vais vous donner un exemple de la carte du maroc pour comprendre
<Rafik> ÙØ¹ÙÙ ÙØ§ ØªÙØ§ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØµÙ Ø¨ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØºØ±Ø¨ Ù Ø§ÙØµØ­Ø±Ø§Ø¡
<The-Grub> oui
<The-Grub> yes
<anmar> There isn't much time left guys. We need to wrap it up.
<Rafik> The-Grub, Ø§ÙØ§ÙØ± ÙØ§ ÙÙÙÙØ§ ÙÙØ§ Ø¹ÙÙ ÙØ§ Ø§Ø¹ØªÙØ¯, Ø³ÙØ¹ØªÙØ¯ ÙØ§ ÙØ¬Ø¯Ù Ø¹ÙÙ ÙÙÙÙØ¨Ø¯ÙØ§
<bay199> Ø§ÙÙÙ Ø§ØªÙÙØªÙØ§ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙ ØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØ
<Rafik> Ø¹ÙØ¯ÙØ§ Ø³Ø§Ø¹ØªÙÙ ÙØ§ Ø¬ÙØ§Ø¹Ø©
<The-Grub> c'est trÃ¨s important pour nous
<The-Grub> http://www.routard.com/images_contenu/partir/destination/maroc/carte/maroc.gif
<The-Grub> Ã§a c'est un exemple ?
<Rafik> The-Grub, we will use the same map as on Wikipedia
<bay199> Ø§ÙÙØ§Ù ÙØ­ÙØ¯
<Rafik> if ever we vote for this logo
<Muhammad> bay199, Ø§ÙÙØ§
<The-Grub> Rafik, meme si il y a une erreur sur la carte ?
<Rafik> Ø³ÙØ§Ù
<Muhammad> ÙØ¹ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ù Ø±ÙÙÙ
<Rafik> The-Grub, on ne sait pas si c'est une erreur, la politique ne nous concerne pas
<The-Grub> Rafik, est ce que tu peux accepter de voir un trait qui sÃ©pare palestine ?
<Rafik> on prendra le logo de la ligue arabe, c'est un truc officiel
<Rafik> ÙØ§ Ø¬ÙØ§Ø¹Ø©
<bay199>  ÙØ¹Ù ÙØ§Ø±ÙÙÙ Ø
<The-Grub> Rafik, tu peux me donner un exemple ?
<Rafik> ÙØ®ØªØ§Ø± Ø±ÙÙ 1 Ø§Ù 6 Ø
<bay199> Ø§ÙØ§ Ø§ÙØ¶Ù 6
<Rafik> The-Grub, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_League
<bay199> ÙØ­ÙØ¯
<bay199> Ø´ÙÙ
<bay199> http://wiki.ubuntu-arabic.org/%D8%B4%D8%B9%D8%A7%D8%B1_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%81%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%82
<bay199> Ø§ÙØ´Ø¹Ø§Ø±Ø§Øª Ø§ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¶Ù
<The-Grub> Thank you
<Muhammad> Ø±ÙÙ 6
<Rafik> ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø®ÙØ§Øµ
<The-Grub> Je suis desolÃ© mais il y a une erreur sur la carte
<persia> I'm certainly not on the team, and haven't been following closely, but I'd recommend against selecting #6, just because it can lead to various discussions about maps, and may become out of date at some point.
<stuntgp2k1> Ø±ÙÙ 1 ÙØ£ÙÙ ÙÙØ«Ù ÙÙ ÙÙ ÙØªØ­Ø¯Ø« Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ©
<anmar> persia: I second that.
<Muhammad> Ø±ÙÙ 6 ÙÙØ«Ù ÙÙ ÙÙ ÙØªØ­Ø¯Ø« Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ© Ø¨Ø´ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨Ø± :)
<Muhammad> Ø®Ø±ÙØ·Ø© Ø§ÙÙØ·Ù Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙÙ ÙØ¸Ø±Ù Ø£ÙØ¶Ù
<Rafik> persia, it's the official Arab League map
<Muhammad> persia, i don't think so , as maps rarely changes
<persia> Rafik, I understand.
<anmar> Muhammad: not int he middle east they do't :)
<persia> Muhammad, Well, every 10 years or so, worldwide.
<bay199> ÙÙÙØ³ Ø¬Ø¯Ø§Ù ÙÙØ°Ø§ ÙÙØ§ Ø§ÙÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
<persia> Anyway, like I said, I'm not on the team: it's up to you guys :)
<bay199> ÙØ±ÙØ¯ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ ÙØ§Ø¬ÙØªÙØ§Ø¹Ø§ÙØ§ Ø¨ØºÙØ±ÙØ§
<bay199> ÙØ§ÙØ§ ÙÙØ§Ù Ø¹ÙØ¯Ù Ø´ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¬ÙÙØ²Ù
<bay199> ÙÙÙÙ
<Muhammad> persia, several point of view as well :-)
<Rafik> persia, your opinion is interesting and you are right, The-Grub was talking about that issue
<persia> Rafik, Yes, my French is better than my Arabic :)
<Rafik> persia, c'est super alors :)
<Rafik> I think we can choose number 6 and adopt the map of the arab league as it is.
<Muhammad> good opinion
<The-Grub> Rafik, ok mais pas celui sur Wikipedia je vous en prie
<Rafik> The-Grub, on veut une source officielle, pas plus
<The-Grub> ok
<Rafik> on verra Ã§a plus tard
<Rafik> on ira chercher le loco de la league arabe tel qu'il est
<Rafik> s/loco/logo
<The-Grub> Merci Rafik
<The-Grub> je vous propose la carte du monde arabe sans les frontieres
<bay199> Ø§Ø°Ø§ Ø®ÙØµØªÙØ§ ÙÙ Ø­ØµÙØ© Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙØ³Ø§ÙÙ ÙØ§ÙØ§ÙØ¬ÙÙØ²Ù Ø§Ø¨ÙÙ ÙÙÙÙÙÙ
<The-Grub> qui se que vous en pensez ?
<Rafik> bay199, Ø¹ÙÙØ§
<stuntgp2k1> Ø£ÙØ§ ÙØ¹ØªØ±Ø¶ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø£Ù ØªØ­Ø¯Ø¨Ø¯ Ø¬ØºØ±Ø§ÙÙ.
<bay199> ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙ Ø´Ù Ø±Ø³ÙØªÙØ§ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ© Ø´Ø¹Ø§Ø±
<Muhammad> Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙØ³ÙØ© ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ´ÙÙØ© ....
<The-Grub> stuntgp2k1, je suis d'accord avec toi
<The-Grub> men doune ta9ssimate joghrafia
<The-Grub> Kharita 3arabia wahida
<The-Grub> hal hadah momken ?
<Rafik> Ø§Ø¹ØªÙØ¯ Ø§Ù Ø§ÙÙØ±Ø§Ø± ØªÙ Ù ÙØ®ØªØ§Ø± Ø±ÙÙ 6 Ø¨Ø¯ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ­Ø¯ÙØ¯ Ù Ø¨Ø§Ø¹ØªÙØ§Ø¯ Ø®Ø±ÙØ·Ø© Ø¬Ø§ÙØ¹Ø© Ø§ÙØ¯ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ©
<Rafik> ÙÙØ§ÙÙÙÙ Ø
<The-Grub> Rafik, Na3am wa chokrane
<Muhammad> ÙÙØ§ÙÙ
<Rafik> Ø§Ø¬Ø§Ø¨Ø© Ø¨ÙØ¹Ù Ø§Ù ÙØ§ ÙÙ ÙØ¶ÙÙÙ Ø
<bay199> ÙÙØ§ÙÙ
<bay199> ÙØ¹Ù
<The-Grub> Oui/Yes/Na3am
<stuntgp2k1> ÙØ¹Ù
<Rafik> Ø´ÙØ±Ø§ ÙÙÙ
<bay199> Ø§ÙØ­ÙØ¯ Ø§ÙÙÙ
<bay199> Ø§ÙØ§Ù ÙØ¨Ø±ÙÙ ÙÙØ§ Ø¹ÙØ´Ø§Ù ÙÙØ²ÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ø±Ù
<Rafik> :)
<Rafik> ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§Ø¬ÙØ¯Ø©
<Rafik> #  ØªÙÙÙÙ ÙØ±ÙÙ ÙØ±Ø¨Ø· Ø¹ÙØ§ÙØ§Øª ÙØ¹ ÙÙØ§ÙØ¹ Ø¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ© Ø°Ø§Øª ØµÙØ© Ø¨Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ
<Rafik>     ÙØªÙÙÙ ÙØ°Ø§ Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØªØ·ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ´Ø§Ø±ÙÙÙ ÙÙ ÙÙØ§ÙØ¹ Ù ÙÙØªØ¯ÙØ§Øª Ø¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ© ÙÙØ§ Ø¹ÙØ§ÙØ© Ø¨Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ù ÙÙÙØªÙÙ Ø§ÙØªØ¹Ø±ÙÙ Ø¨Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø¹ÙÙ ØªÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙØ§ÙØ¹ Ù Ø§Ø³ØªØ¯Ø¹Ø§Ø¡ Ø§Ø¹Ø¶Ø§Ø¦ÙØ§ ÙÙÙØ´Ø§Ø±ÙØ© ÙÙ ÙÙÙØ¹ÙØ§. Ø§ÙØ±Ø¬Ø§Ø¡ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§Ø®ÙØ© Ø§ÙØ±Ø§ØºØ¨ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ´Ø§Ø±ÙØ© Ø§Ø¹ÙØ§ÙÙØ§ Ø¨Ø°ÙÙ ÙÙØ¨Ø¯Ø£ Ø§ÙØ¹ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ±Ø¨ ÙÙØª
<Rafik> Ø¹ÙØ¯ÙØ§ Ø§ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ±Ø§Ø¯ ÙÙ ÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹ ÙÙÙØ³ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
<The-Grub> Je suis interessÃ© pour un support du franÃ§ais
<The-Grub> et etre un point de relais entre les pays francophone
<bay199> ÙÙØ§Ù ÙØ±ÙØ¨ ÙÙ ÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹ ÙÙÙÙØ³ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
<anmar> it would be great to pool our resources together and do something for the Arab world.
<bay199> http://www.linuxac.org/forum/group.php?groupid=3
<The-Grub> O9adem lakom khadamati benessba lÃ© dowal al magharibia
<Rafik> ÙÙ ÙØ¹ÙØ§ Ø§Ø¹Ø¶Ø§Ø¡ ÙÙ Ø§Ø¯Ø§Ø±Ø© linuxac ?
<Rafik> The-Grub, ÙØ±Ø­Ø¨Ø§ Ø¨Ù :)
<The-Grub> Chokrane :)
<Rafik> ÙØ§ Ø±ÙØª ÙØªÙØµÙ Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ØªÙØ§Ù ÙØ¹ ÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹ ÙÙÙØ³ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙØªÙØ¬ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø§ÙØ®Ø§Øµ Ø¨Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
<bay199> Ø§ÙØ§Ø¯Ø§Ø±Ù ÙÙØ§Ù Ø¬Ø¯Ø§Ù Ø¬ÙÙÙÙ
<bay199> ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø¨Ø§Ø³ØªØ·Ø§Ø¹ØªÙ Ø§ÙØ§ØªÙØ§Ù ÙØ¹Ø§ÙÙ
<Rafik> ÙØ§Ø²Ù ÙØªØµÙ Ø¨Ø§ÙØ§Ø¯Ø§Ø±Ø© Ù ÙØ¹ÙÙ ÙØ¹Ø§ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§ÙØ¶Ù
<bay199> Ø¯ÙÙÙÙ Ø§Ø´ÙÙÙÙ ÙØ§Ø­Ø¯ ÙÙÙÙ ÙÙØ§Ù
<Rafik> Ø´ÙØ±Ø§
<bay199> ÙÙØ£Ø³Ù ÙØ§ Ø§Ø­Ø¯ ÙÙØ¬ÙØ¯ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§ÙÙÙÙ ÙÙØ§ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØºØ±ÙÙ
<Rafik> Muhammed ÙØ§ Ø
<Skeleton_Eel> ??
<Rafik> Skeleton_Eel, ÙØ±Ø­Ø¨Ø§
<Skeleton_Eel> Ø§ÙÙØ§ ÙØ§ Ø¨Ø§Ø´Ø§ :)
<bay199> <Skeleton_Eel> Ø§ÙÙØ§Ù
<Skeleton_Eel> Ø§ØªØ£Ø®Ø±Øª ÙØªÙØ± Ø
<bay199> ÙØ­ÙØ¯ Ø§ÙÙØ§Ù
<Muhammad> Ø§Ø³Ù ÙÙØ±Øª Ø§ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØªÙÙØªÙ
<bay199> ÙØ§ Ø¨Ø§ÙÙ Ø´ÙÙÙ
<bay199> ÙÙÙÙ ÙØ§ Ø±ÙÙÙ
<stuntgp2k1> Ø£ÙØªØ±Ø­ Ø¥ÙØ´Ø§Ø¡ ÙØ³Ø§Ù ØµØºÙØ± ÙØ£ÙØ¨ÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙÙØ¶Ø¹ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ¯ÙÙØ§Øª ÙØ°ÙÙ ÙÙÙØª Ø¥ÙØªØ¨Ø§Ù ÙØ±Ø§Ø¡ ÙØ°Ù Ø§ÙÙØ¯ÙÙØ§Øª.
<Skeleton_Eel> Ø·ÙØ¨ ÙÙÙÙ ÙÙØ®Øµ Ø :D
<Muhammad> Skeleton_Eel, Ø§ÙØª ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø­ØªØ© ÙØ¯Ù ÙØ§Ø¯ :P
<Rafik> Muhammad,
<Rafik> <Rafik> ÙØ§ Ø±ÙØª ÙØªÙØµÙ Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ØªÙØ§Ù ÙØ¹ ÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹ ÙÙÙØ³ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙØªÙØ¬ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø§ÙØ®Ø§Øµ Ø¨Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
<Rafik> <bay199> Ø§ÙØ§Ø¯Ø§Ø±Ù ÙÙØ§Ù Ø¬Ø¯Ø§Ù Ø¬ÙÙÙÙ
<Rafik> <bay199> ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø¨Ø§Ø³ØªØ·Ø§Ø¹ØªÙ Ø§ÙØ§ØªÙØ§Ù ÙØ¹Ø§ÙÙ
<Rafik> <Rafik> ÙØ§Ø²Ù ÙØªØµÙ Ø¨Ø§ÙØ§Ø¯Ø§Ø±Ø© Ù ÙØ¹ÙÙ ÙØ¹Ø§ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§ÙØ¶Ù
<bay199> ÙØ§
<Muhammad> Rafik, Ø·ÙØ¨ Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ·ÙÙØ¨ ØªÙØµÙÙ ÙÙØ§Ø¯Ø§Ø±Ø© Ø
<Skeleton_Eel> Muhammad : Ø·Ø¨Ø¹Ø§ :p
<bay199> ÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙ
<bay199> ÙØ­ÙØ¯ Ø§ÙÙØ¯
<Muhammad> ÙÙØ¹ÙØ© Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø§ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØª ÙØ­ØªØ§Ø¬Ù Ø
<Rafik> ØªÙØ¬ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§Ø¹Ø¶Ø§Ø¡ Ø§ÙØ±Ø§ØºØ¨ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
<Rafik> Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø§ÙØ®Ø§Øµ Ø¨Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø·Ø¨Ø¹Ø§
<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : Ø¨Ø³ Ø§ØµÙØ§ ÙÙ ÙØ±Ù Ø¨ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙÙØ¹ÙÙ
<Muhammad> Ø·ÙØ¨ Ø¹Ø¸ÙÙ Ø Ø¨Ø³ Ø§ÙØªÙØ± Ø§ÙÙ ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØªØ± ÙÙ Ø´Ø®Øµ ÙØ§Ù Ø¨Ø¯Ø£ Ø§ÙÙÙØ¶ÙØ¹ Ø¯Ù
<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø¯Ù ÙÙØªØ¯Ù Ù Ø¯Ù ÙÙÙØ¹ ÙØ´Ø¨Ù Ø§ÙÙØ¯ÙÙØ©
<The-Grub> Assef 3alaya dahab li bid3ate da9ai9
<Rafik> ÙÙÙÙ ÙØªÙØµÙ Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ØªÙØ§Ù ÙØªØ¨Ø§Ø¯Ù Ø§ÙØ±ÙØ§Ø¨Ø· Ø§Ù Ø§ÙØ§ÙØ³ÙØ©
<bay199> Ø§ÙØ§ Ø§ØªÙÙØ¹ Ø§ÙÙ Ø±ÙÙÙ ÙØµØ¯Ù ØªØ¨ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø³ Ø§ÙÙ ÙÙ ÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹ Ø®Ø§Øµ ÙÙÙÙØªÙØ§ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙÙØ§ ÙÙ ÙØ°Ø§
<Rafik> Skeleton_Eel, http://forum.ubuntu-arabic.org/
<Rafik> bay199, ÙØ¹Ù
<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : Ø¨Ø§ÙÙØ³Ø¨Ø© ÙÙÙÙØªØ¯ÙØ§Øª Ø Ø¨ÙØ¶Ù ÙØªÙ ØªÙØ­ÙØ¯ Ø§ÙØ¬ÙÙØ¯ ÙÙ ÙÙØªØ¯Ù ÙØ§Ø­Ø¯
<stuntgp2k1> 45 Ø¯ÙÙÙØ© Ø¹ÙÙ Ø¥ÙØªÙØ§Ø¡ Ø§ÙØ¥Ø¬ØªÙØ§Ø¹
<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : Ø§ÙÙØ§ ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø·Ø±ÙÙØ© ØªØ§ÙÙØ© ÙÙØ¯Ø¹Ù ÙÙÙØ´ ÙØ´Ø§ÙÙ
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<Muhammad> Ø§Ø¤ÙØ¯ ÙÙØ§Ù Skeleton_Eel
<bay199> Skeleton_Eel Ø±ÙÙÙ ÙØµØ¯Ù Ø¹ÙØ´Ø§Ù ÙØªÙ Ø§Ø¹ØªÙØ§Ø¯ Ø§ÙÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙÙÙØ¨ÙØªÙØ§ ÙÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹ Ø±Ø³ÙÙ Ø¹Ù Ø§ÙØ§Ù
<Muhammad> ÙØ§ÙÙ ÙØ§Ø¹Ø¯Ø© Ø§ÙÙØ³ØªØ®Ø¯ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ Ø¨Ø³ÙØ·Ø© Ø¬Ø¯Ø§
<bay199> Ø¹Ù = Ø¹ÙØ¯
<Rafik> bay199, Ø¬ÙØ¯
<bay199> ÙØ¬ÙØ© ÙØ¸Ø± ÙØ§ Ø­ÙØ§Ø¯Ù
<Rafik> ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹ ÙØ®Øµ ÙÙÙØ³ Ø§Ø¬ÙØ¹ Ù ÙÙÙ ÙØ§ Ø±ÙØª Ø§Ù Ø§ÙØ§Ø³Ø¦ÙØ© Ø§ÙØ®Ø§ØµØ© Ø¨Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ ØªÙØ¬Ù Ø¹ÙÙ ÙÙØªØ¯ÙØ§Øª Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
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<Muhammad> ØµØ±Ø§Ø­Ø© Ø§ÙØ§ ÙÙØ§ ÙØªØ±Ø© ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙÙÙØªØ¯ÙØ§Øª Ø­ÙØ§ÙÙ Ø³ÙØªÙÙ ÙÙ ÙØ±Ø© Ø§ÙÙÙ Ø¨ÙØ­ØµÙ ÙØ§ÙØ£ØªÙ Ø§ÙÙÙØªØ¯Ù Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙØ³ØªÙØ± ÙÙØªØ±Ø© Ø¨Ø¹Ø¯ÙÙ ÙØ­ØµÙÙ suspend Ø²Ù ØºÙØ±Ù
<Muhammad> ÙØ­Ø§Ø¬ØªÙÙ Ø§ÙØ£ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ´Ø±ÙÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙØªØ¯Ù Ø§ÙØ­Ø§Ø¬Ø© Ø§ÙØªØ§ÙÙØ© ÙÙØ© Ø§ÙÙØ³ØªØ®Ø¯ÙÙÙ
<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : Ø¨Ø§ÙØ§Ø¶Ø§ÙØ© ÙÙØ§Ø®Ø¨Ø§Ø± Ø§ÙÙØªØ¬Ø¯Ø¯Ø©
<Muhammad> Skeleton_Eel, Ø§Ø¸Ù Ø§ÙÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ®Ø§Øµ Ø¨Ø§ÙÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹ ÙØªØ¨ÙÙ ÙÙØ³ Ø§ÙÙÙØ±Ø©
<Rafik> Muhammad, ÙØ±ÙÙÙØ§ Ø³ÙÙÙÙ Ø±Ø³ÙÙ Ù ÙØ¹ØªÙØ¯ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙØªÙ
<Muhammad> Ø¨Ø³ ÙØ´ ÙÙØ¬Ù ÙØ§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø¨Ø³
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<Muhammad> ÙØ§ ØªØªÙÙØ¹ Ø§Ø¹Ø¯Ø§Ø¯ ÙØ¨ÙØ±Ø© ÙØ«Ù Ø§ÙÙØ³ØªØ®Ø¯ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§Ø¬Ø§ÙØ¨
<Rafik> Ø§Ø¬Ù. Ù ÙÙÙ ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ³ØªØ®Ø¯ÙÙ. ÙØ­Ù
<Rafik> Ù Ø§ÙØ§Ø¹Ø¯Ø§Ø¯ Ø§ÙÙØªÙØ§Ø¬Ø¯Ø© Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹
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<Rafik> Ø§ÙÙØ·ÙÙØ¨ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØªØ¹Ø±ÙÙ Ø¨Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ ÙÙØ±ÙÙ Ø±Ø³ÙÙ Ù ÙØ´ ÙØ´Ø±ÙØ¹ Ø´Ø®ØµÙ ÙØ§ÙØ¨ÙÙØ© Ù Ø¨Ø¹Ø¯ Ø§ÙØ§ÙÙØ± ØªÙÙÙ Ø§Ø³ÙÙ Ø§Ù Ø´Ø§Ø¡ Ø§ÙÙÙ
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<Muhammad> Ø§Ø¯Ø§Ø±Ø© Ø§ÙÙÙÙØ¹ ÙØ§ ØªÙØ§ÙØ¹ ÙÙØ§Ø¦ÙØ§ Ø¨Ø§Ø´ÙØ§Ø¡ ÙØ«Ù ÙØ°Ù
<Rafik> Ø¬ÙØ¯
<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : ÙÙÙÙ ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙÙØ¹ ÙØ«ÙØ§ Ø²Ù ubuntu geek
<Rafik> ÙÙØ§ØµÙ Ø§ÙØ­Ø¯ÙØ« Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹ Ø§Ø°Ø§
<bay199> Ø§Ø¯Ø§Ø±Ø© Ø§ÙÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ§ Ø§Ø¯Ø§Ø±Ø© Ø´ÙØ±Ù ÙØ§Ù Ø§ÙØ±Ø¨Ø­ Ø§ÙØ³ÙÙÙ 1000%
<Skeleton_Eel> Ø§Ù ubuntu guide
<Rafik> Skeleton_Eel, Ø³ÙÙÙÙ ÙØ«Ù ubuntu.com
<Rafik> Ø³ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø¬ÙØ© Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ© Ø§ÙØ±Ø³ÙÙØ© ÙØ§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ
<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : Ø§Ø¹ØªÙØ¯ ÙØ³Ù Ø¨Ø¯Ø±Ù Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙØ¶ÙØ¹ Ø¯Ù Ø Ø¹Ø¯Ø¯ ÙØ³ØªØ®Ø¯ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙÙÙÙØ³ ÙØ´ Ø¨Ø§ÙØ¹Ø¯Ø¯ Ø§ÙÙØ¨ÙØ± ÙØ¶ÙØ§ Ø¹Ù ÙØ³ØªØ®Ø¯ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙØªÙ :)
<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : ÙÙ Ø¨Ø§ÙØ´ÙÙ Ø¯Ù ÙÙ ÙØ­ØªØ§Ø¬ÙÙ ÙØ±ÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ ÙØ¨ÙØ± Ø
<Rafik> ÙØ¨ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ³ØªÙØ¨Ù ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙÙ Ø§Ø®Ù !
<Skeleton_Eel> "ââ«Ø³ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø¬ÙØ© Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ© Ø§ÙØ±Ø³ÙÙØ© ÙØ§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ"
<Rafik> Ø¹Ø¯Ø¯ Ø§ÙÙØ³ØªØ®Ø¯ÙÙÙ ÙØ²ÙØ¯ ÙÙ ÙÙÙ
<Rafik> Skeleton_Eel, ÙØ¹Ù
<Skeleton_Eel> ÙØ­ØªØ§Ø¬ÙÙ ÙØ§Ù Ø´Ø®Øµ Ø¹Ø´Ø§Ù ÙÙÙÙ Ø¨Ø§ÙÙÙÙØ© Ø¯Ù Ø
<stuntgp2k1> Ø£ÙØ§ ÙÙØ§ÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø¥ÙØ´Ø§Ø¡ ÙÙØªØ¯Ù Ø£ÙØ¨ÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù Ø¯ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¥ÙØªÙØ§Ù Ø¨ÙÙ Ø³ÙØ²ÙØ±Ù Ø£Ù ÙÙØ¶Ù Ø¥ÙÙÙ. Ø§ÙÙÙÙ Ø£Ù ÙÙÙÙ ÙØ¬Ø§Ù ÙÙØªÙØ§Ø¹Ù.
<Skeleton_Eel> ÙÙ ÙÙÙØ¹ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙØªÙ ÙÙØ³Ù ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙ Ø - Ø¨ØºØ¶ Ø§ÙÙØ¸Ø± Ø¹Ù Ø§ÙÙÙØªØ¯Ù -
<Rafik> Ø§Ø¬Ù
<Skeleton_Eel> stuntgp2k1 : Ø¹Ù ÙÙØ³Ù ÙØ§ Ø§Ø­Ø¨Ø° Ø§ÙÙÙØ±Ø© : )
<bay199> Ø´ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ´ Ø±Ø§ÙÙÙ Ø¨ÙØ°Ù Ø§ÙÙÙØ±Ù
<Muhammad> stuntgp2k1, ÙØ¨Ø¯Ù Ø§ÙÙ Ø¯Ø®ÙÙÙ ÙÙÙÙØªØ¯ÙØ§Øª Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ© ÙÙÙÙ Ø§Ø¸Ù
<stuntgp2k1> ÙÙØ§ Ø£Ø¯Ø¹Ù ÙØ§ÙØ© Ø§ÙÙØ¯ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙØªÙÙÙ Ø£Ù ÙÙÙÙÙØ§ Ø¨ØªØºØ·ÙØª ÙØ´Ø±ÙØ¹ Ø£ÙØ¨Ø§ÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù.
<Skeleton_Eel> bay199 : Ø§Ù ÙÙØ±Ø© Ø
<Rafik> stuntgp2k1, ok Ø´ÙØ¦ Ø¬ÙÙÙ Ù ÙÙÙ ÙÙÙØ°Ù Ø
<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : ÙÙÙÙ ØªÙÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ ØªØµÙØ±Ù ÙÙÙÙØ¹ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù Ø
<bay199> ÙÙÙ ÙØ§Ù ÙÙØ±Ø©
<bay199> how tio
<bay199> to
<bay199> ??
<bay199> t;vi pg,i
<bay199> ÙÙØ±Ù Ø­ÙÙÙ
<bay199> ÙÙÙÙÙ Ø¹ÙØ¯ÙØ§ Ø®Ø· Ø³Ø§Ø®Ù ÙÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø§ÙÙÙÙ
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<bay199> Øµ
<stuntgp2k1> Muhamamd, ÙÙØ³ Ø¨Ø§ÙØ¶Ø±ÙØ±ÙØ Ø§ÙÙÙØ§Ø­Ø¸ Ø£Ù ÙÙØ§Ù ØµØ­ÙØ©
<Rafik> Skeleton_Eel, ØªØ±Ø¬ÙØ© Ù ubuntu.com ÙØ¹ wiki.ubuntu.com ÙØ¹ ÙÙØªØ¯ÙØ§Øª ÙÙØ¯Ø¹Ù
<bay199> ÙÙÙÙÙ Ø³Ø±Ø¹Ø© Ø§ÙØ±Ø¯ ÙÙ Ø­Ø¯ÙØ¯ 48 Ø³Ø§Ø¹Ù
<bay199> ÙØ¨ÙØ°Ø§ ØªÙÙÙ ÙÙÙÙ Ø³Ø±ÙØ¹
<Rafik> bay199, Ø¹ÙØ¯ÙØ§ Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø¦ÙØ© Ø§ÙØ¨Ø±ÙØ¯ÙØ©
<Muhammad> stuntgp2k1, ÙØ­ØªØ§Ø¬ Ø¥ÙÙ Ø§Ø³ØªØºÙØ§Ù ØªÙÙ Ø§ÙØµØ­ÙØ© ÙÙ ØªÙØ­ÙØ¯ Ø§ÙØ¬ÙÙØ¯ ÙØ§ ØªÙØ±ÙÙÙØ§
<Rafik> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-arabic
<bay199> Ø·ÙØ¨ ÙØ³Ø± Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø¹Ù Ø·Ø±ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø¦ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨Ø±ÙØ¯ÙÙ
<Muhammad> ÙØ°Ù ÙØ¬Ø±Ø¯ ÙØ¬ÙØ© ÙØ¸Ø± ÙÙØ³ Ø¥ÙØ§
<bay199> ÙØ§ÙØ§ ÙÙØ§Ù Ø­Ø·ÙØ© ÙØ¬ÙØ© ÙØ¸Ø±Ù
<Rafik> Muhammad, Ø§ÙÙØ¯Ù ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ±ÙÙ ØªÙØ­ÙØ¯ ÙÙ ÙØ§ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙØªÙ Ù Ø¨Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù Ø¹ÙÙ ÙÙÙØ¹ ÙØ§Ø­Ø¯
<Muhammad> Rafik, Ø§ØªÙÙÙ ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØªÙÙÙÙ :)
<Rafik> Ø´ÙØ±Ø§
<stuntgp2k1> Muhammad, ÙÙØ±Ø© Ø£ÙØ¨ÙØªÙØ§ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù ÙÙ Ø­Ø¯ Ø¯Ø§ØªÙØ§ ØªÙØ±ÙØ©.
<Rafik> ÙÙÙ Ø
<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : Ø·ÙØ¨ ÙØ§ Ø§ÙØ§ Ø¨ÙÙÙ ÙØ¯Ø§ Ø ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙÙÙ  ÙÙ ØºÙØ± ÙÙØªØ¯ÙØ§Øª
<bay199> Ø±ÙÙÙ ÙÙÙ ÙØ§ ØªÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙØªØ¯Ù Ø§ÙØ±Ø³ÙÙ ÙÙÙÙÙØ¹ ÙÙØ¯ÙÙØ§ ÙØ³Ù ÙÙÙÙ ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
<Rafik> Ù ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø
<Rafik> Skeleton_Eel, Ù ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø
<Rafik> bay199, ÙØ§ ÙÙÙØª
<Rafik> Skeleton_Eel, ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØªÙØ±ÙØ© Ø
<bay199> ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙØªØ¯Ù Ø§ÙØ±Ø³ÙÙ ÙØ¯ÙÙ ÙØ³Ù ÙÙ ÙÙØªØ¯Ø§Ù ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙÙ ÙÙØ§Ù
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<Rafik> bay199, ÙÙØªØ¯ÙØ§ØªÙØ§ Ø§ÙØ¶Ø§ Ø³ØªÙÙÙ Ø±Ø³ÙÙØ© ÙØ«Ù Ø§ÙÙÙØªØ¯ÙØ§Øª Ø§ÙØ§ÙØ¬ÙÙØ²ÙØ©
<bay199> Ø·ÙØ¨
<stuntgp2k1> Ø£Ø¤ÙØ¯ skeleton_Eel
<Rafik> Skeleton_Eel, ÙØ±ÙØ¯ ØªÙØ­ÙØ¯ ÙÙ ÙØ§ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ ÙÙ ÙÙØ§Ù Ø±Ø³ÙÙ Ù ÙØ¹ØªÙØ¯ Ø±Ø³ÙÙØ§
<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : Ø§ÙÙ ÙØ§Ø¦Ø¯Ø© Ø§ÙØ§Ø¹ØªÙØ§Ø¯ Ø±Ø³ÙÙØ§ Ø
<bay199> Ø¹ÙÙ ÙÙØ±Ù ÙÙØ§ ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙ ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ´Ø±ÙÙ ØªØ¨Ø¹ Ø§ÙÙØ¨ÙØªÙØ§
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<anmar> bay199: www.canonical.com
<bay199> Ø·ÙØ¨ Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø­ÙØ³ØªÙØ± ÙÙ Ø³ÙÙ
<bay199> ØØØ
<bay199> Ø§ÙØ§ ÙØ§ÙÙ Ø³ÙØ¹Ø© 15 Ø³ÙÙ
<bay199> ØØØ
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<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : Ù Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø¦Ø¯Ø© Ø¨Ø±Ø¯Ù ? :D
<Rafik> bay199, Ø§ÙÙ Ø§Ù ÙØ®ØªÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ¬ÙØ¯
<bay199> ÙÙÙÙÙ Ø
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<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : Ø­Ø§ÙÙØ§Ù Ø¨ÙØ­Ø§ÙÙ ÙØ¹Ø±Ù Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø³ Ø¨Ø§ÙÙÙÙÙÙØ³
<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : Ø¨ÙØ­Ø§ÙÙ ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø¯Ø¹Ø§ÙØ© ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¬Ø§ÙØ¹Ø§Øª Ù Ø§ÙÙØ¹Ø§ÙØ¯
<anmar> Guys. lnux is very important for the Arab world
<anmar> as we join the world, piracy will become an issue
<anmar> and affording MS crap is just too much.
<bay199> ÙÙÙÙ ÙÙ Ø§Ù ÙØ³ÙØ· Ø§ÙÙÙØªÙØ§ ÙÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø­Ø¯ Ø¹ÙÙÙ ÙØ§ÙÙ Ø§Ù ÙØ±Ø¬Ø¹ ÙØ§ÙÙ ÙÙØ¯Ø± ÙÙÙÙ ÙÙÙ ÙØ±Ù ØªØ§ÙÙÙ
<Rafik> Skeleton_Eel, anmar this also what we do, it's ouer goal
<anmar> so FLOSS is the way to go
<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : Ø¨Ø¹Ø¯ ÙØ¯Ø§ ÙØ¨ÙÙ ÙÙÙØ± Ø¹ÙÙ Ø±Ø§Ø­ØªÙØ§ ÙÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙ Ø¨Ø§ÙÙØ³Ø¨Ø© ÙØ§ÙØ¨ÙØªÙ :)
<bay199> ÙÙ Ø²Ù ÙÙØ¯Ø±ÙØ§
<bay199> ÙÙØ§ ÙÙØ§ ÙØ§ Ø´Ø¨Ø§Ø¨
<Rafik> bay199, Ø§Ø·ÙÙ. Ø§ÙØ¸Ø§ÙØ± Ø§ÙÙ ÙØ§ ØªØ¹Ø±Ù Ø§Ø¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø¬ÙØ¯Ø§
<anmar> this sounds silly but ideally if one of the dubai guys spends some money on pushing Linux in the Arab world instead of building another tall building
<bay199> Ø§ÙØ§ ÙØ§ Ø§Ø¹Ø±ÙÙØ§ ÙÙØ§Ø¦ÙØ§Ù
<bay199> Ø­ØªÙ Ø§ÙÙÙ ØµØ±ÙØ­ ÙØ¹Ø§Ù
<Skeleton_Eel> bay199 : ÙØªØ®ÙØ´ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø­ÙØ© Ø¯Ù :D
<Skeleton_Eel> Ø¯Ø¨ÙØ§Ù ØªØ¹ÙØ´ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØªØ¨Ø±Ø¹Ø§Øª ÙÙØ·
<stuntgp2k1> ØªØ¨ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙØª 20 Ø¯ÙÙÙØ©
<Rafik> ÙØ¹Ù
<bay199> Ø§ÙØ§ Ø§Ø®Ø§Ù ÙÙ Ø§ÙØªØ±Ø¨Ø¹Ø§Øª ÙØ°Ù
<anmar> Skeleton_Eel: but donation is not common in ME. People usually have enought to live by
<bay199> ÙÙÙ ÙØ§ ÙÙØ§ Ø¶ÙØ§Ù
<Rafik> ÙØ§ Ø¬ÙØ§Ø¹Ø©. ÙÙÙÙ ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø¬Ø§ÙØ² ÙÙØ§ÙØ¸ÙØ§Ù ÙÙØ±ÙÙ ÙÙØªØ¯ÙØ§Øª Ø§ÙØ¨ÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù Ø
<Rafik> Ù Ø§ÙØ§ Ø³Ø§ØªØµÙ Ø¨Ø§Ø¯Ø§Ø±Ø© Ø§ÙÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹ Ù ÙØ´ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØ©
<nizarus> o/
<Rafik> Ø³ÙØ§Ù ÙØ²Ø§Ø±
<nizarus> Ø§ÙÙØ§ Rafik
<bay199> Ø§ÙØ§ Ø§Ù Ø´Ø§Ø¡ Ø§ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§ Ø³ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¸Ù Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ¬ØªÙØ¹
<stuntgp2k1> Ø£ÙØ§ ÙØ³ØªØ¹Ø¯ ÙØªÙØ¯ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ³Ø¹Ø§Ø¯Ø© ÙÙÙ ÙØ´Ø§Ø±ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙØ¨Ø±ÙØ¬ÙØ§Øª Ø§ÙØ­Ø±Ø©.
<bay199> ÙÙÙ Ø³ÙÙ ÙØ¯Ø¡ ØºØ¯Ø§Ù Ø§ÙÙ ÙÙÙ Ø¯Ø±Ø§Ø³Ù ÙØ¹ÙÙ Ø³ÙÙ ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØªÙØ§Ø¬Ø¯
<Rafik> Ø¬ÙØ¯ Ø¬Ø¯Ø§
<stuntgp2k1> Ø£ÙØ¨ÙØªÙ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨Ù  ÙØ§Ø­Ø¯ ÙÙÙÙ
<Rafik> Ø§Ø°Ø§ Ø§Ø·ÙØ¨ ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§ÙØ¸ÙØ§Ù Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø¦ÙØ© Ø§ÙØ¨Ø±ÙØ¯ÙØ©
<Rafik> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-arabic
<bay199> ÙÙÙØ§Ù Ø´Ø¨Ø§Ø¨ ØµØ¯Ø± Ø§Ø¹ÙØ§Ù Ø±Ø³ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ­Ø·ÙÙÙ Ø¨ÙØ¯ Ø§ÙÙÙØ·ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§ Ø¹Ø§ÙØ´ ÙÙÙØ§ ÙØ±Ø¨ÙØ§ ÙÙØ³Ø± Ø§Ø¯Ø¹ÙØ§ÙÙØ§ ÙØ§ÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¯ÙÙØ§ Ø³Ø§Ø±ÙÙ ÙØ±Ù
<Rafik> ÙÙÙØ§ØµÙ Ø§ÙØ¹ÙÙ ÙØ¹Ø§
<bay199> Ø§ÙØ­Ø·ÙÙÙ = Ø§ÙØ­ÙÙÙÙ
<Rafik> Ø§ÙÙÙ ÙØ¹Ù
<bay199> Ø§ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙ
<Rafik> ÙØ§ Ø¬ÙØ§Ø¹Ø©. ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§Ø¬ØªÙØ§Ø¹ Ø
<bay199> Ø§ØªÙÙØ¹ Ø§ÙØªÙÙ
<bay199> ÙÙÙ ÙØ§ ØªÙØ³ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§Ø³ØªÙØ±
<Skeleton_Eel> ÙØ£ Ø§Ø³ØªÙÙ
<Skeleton_Eel> :D
<Rafik> Ø§ÙÙÙ
<Skeleton_Eel> ÙÙÙÙ Ø­Ø§Ø¬Ø© Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ³Ø±ÙØ¹ ÙØ¯Ø§ :)
<bay199> ÙØ§Øª
<Skeleton_Eel> ÙØ§ Ø±ÙØª ÙÙ ÙØ¬ÙÙØ¹Ø© ÙÙ Ø¨ÙØ¯ Ù Ø®ØµÙØµØ§Ù Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø³ Ø§ÙÙÙ ÙØ§ Ø²Ø§ÙÙØ§ Ø¨ÙØ¯Ø±Ø³ÙØ§ Ø ÙØ¹ÙÙÙØ§ ÙØ¬ÙÙØ¹Ø© ÙÙ Ø§Ø±Ø¨Ø¹ Ø§Ù Ø«ÙØ§Ø« Ø§ÙØ±Ø§Ø¯ ÙØªØ¹Ø±ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø³ Ø¨Ø§ÙÙÙÙÙÙØ³
<Skeleton_Eel> Ù Ø§ÙÙØµØ§Ø¯Ø± Ø§ÙØ­Ø±Ø©
<Skeleton_Eel> ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¬Ø§ÙØ¹Ø§Øª Ù Ø§ÙÙØ¹Ø§ÙØ¯
<Skeleton_Eel> Ù Ø­ØªÙ Ø§ÙÙØ¯Ø§Ø±Ø³ - Ø§ÙØ«Ø§ÙÙÙØ© -
<Skeleton_Eel> Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§ÙÙ ÙØ¹Ø±Ù Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø³ Ø§Ù Ø§ÙÙÙØ¨ÙÙØªØ± ÙØ´ ÙÙØ¯ÙØ²
<Skeleton_Eel> Ù ÙÙØ­Ù ÙØªÙØ± ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ¹ÙÙÙØ§Øª Ø§ÙØ®Ø§Ø·Ø¦Ø© Ø¹Ù Ø§ÙÙÙÙÙÙØ³
<bay199> Skeleton_Eel Ø§ÙØªØ§ Ø·ÙØ¨ Ø§ÙÙÙÙ ØµØ¯Ø± Ø§Ø¹ÙØ§Ù Ø¨ÙØ¯Ù Ø§ÙÙÙØ§Ø²Ù ÙØªÙÙÙÙ Ø³ÙÙ ÙØ±ÙØ¨ ÙÙØ§ Ø§ØµÙØ§Ù ÙÙ ÙÙÙ Ø´Ø®Øµ ÙÙ Ø¬Ø§ÙØ¹Ø© Ø§Ù Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù
<stuntgp2k1> Ø¨Ø§ÙÙØ³Ø¨Ø© ÙÙ Ø³Ø£Ø·ÙØ¹ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØªØ±Ø© Ø§ÙÙÙØ¨ÙØ© Ø¹ÙÙ ØªÙØ¯Ù Ø§ÙÙØ´Ø§Ø±ÙØ¹ Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ© Ø¨ÙØ°Ø§ Ø§ÙØ®ØµÙØµ Ù Ø³Ø£Ø³Ø§Ø¹Ø¯ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ³ØªÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØ±Ø¯Ù Ø³ÙØ§Ø¡Ø§ Ø¥ÙØ¶ÙÙØª Ø¥ÙÙ ÙØ±ÙÙ Ø£Ù ÙÙ Ø£ÙØ¶Ù
<Rafik> Skeleton_Eel, ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø¹ÙØ¯ÙØ§ ÙØ°Ø§ Ø§ÙØ´ÙØ¦ Ù ÙÙ ÙØ¸Ø§Ù Ø§ÙÙØ±Ù Ø§ÙÙØ­ÙÙØ©
<Rafik> LoCo Teams
<Skeleton_Eel> bay199 : ÙÙØ§ Ø±Ø¨ÙØ§ ÙÙØ±Ø¬ÙØ§ Ø¹ÙÙÙ ÙØ§ Ø³ÙØ¯Ù !
<bay199> ÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙ Ø§Ù Ø´Ø§Ø¡ Ø§ÙÙÙ
<Skeleton_Eel> Rafik : Ø§ÙØªØ¹Ø±ÙÙ Ø¨Ø§ÙÙÙÙÙØ³ Ù Ø§ÙÙØµØ§Ø¯Ø± Ø§ÙØ­Ø±Ø© Ø¹ÙÙÙØ§ : )
<Rafik> ÙØ¹Ù
<Rafik> Ø§Ø´ÙØ±ÙÙ Ø¬ÙÙØ¹Ø§ Ù ÙØ§ ØªÙØ³Ù  Ø§ÙØ§ÙØ¸ÙØ§Ù ÙÙÙØ§Ø¦ÙØ© Ø§ÙØ¨Ø±ÙØ¯ÙØ© Ù Ø³Ø§Ø±Ø³Ù ÙÙÙØ§ Ø¹Ø¯Ø© ØªÙØ§ØµÙÙ  Ù ÙÙ Ø¹ÙØ¯ÙÙ Ø§Ù Ø³Ø¤Ø§Ù Ø§ÙØ§ÙÙÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø°ÙØªÙÙ : rafik at ubuntu.com
<bay199> Ø§Ù Ø´Ø§Ø¡ Ø§ÙÙÙ
<stuntgp2k1> Ø¨ØªÙÙÙÙ
<Skeleton_Eel> Ø§Ù Ø´Ø§Ø¡ Ø§ÙÙÙ :)
<stuntgp2k1> :)
<Rafik> Ù ÙØ§ Ø±ÙØª ÙØ¹ÙØ¯ Ø§ÙØ§Ø¬ØªÙØ§Ø¹Ø§Øª ÙØªØ¹Ù Ø§ÙÙØ§Ø¦Ø¯Ø©
<Rafik> Ø´ÙØ±Ø§
<Rafik> Ù ÙØ§ ØªÙØ³ÙØ§
<Rafik> #ubuntu-arabic
<stuntgp2k1> ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ£ÙØ¶Ù ÙÙ ÙÙØ§ÙØ© Ø§ÙØ£Ø³Ø§Ø¨ÙØ¹.
<Rafik> ÙØ§ Ø±ÙØª ØªØ¬Ø¹ÙÙ ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ§ÙØ¶ÙØ§Ù Ø§ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙÙØ§Ø© Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ© Ø§ÙØªÙÙØ§ØªÙ :)
<bay199> ÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙÙ Ø§Ù Ø´Ø§Ø¡ Ø§ÙÙÙ
<Rafik> :-)
<Rafik> Thank you all
<Skeleton_Eel> Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙÙ :)
<bay199> ÙÙ ÙØ®Ø±Ø¬ ÙÙ ÙÙØ§ Ø§ÙØ§Ù
<emgent> ?
<Rafik> bay199, ÙÙÙÙ ÙÙØ§ØµÙ Ø¹ÙÙ #ubuntu-arabic
<bay199> Ø®ÙØ§Øµ
<Rafik> emgent, hello, we just finished our ubuntu-arabic meeting.
<emgent> ah sorry :)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 14 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 15 Oct 12:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
<Syntux> still arabic meeitng? ;)
<ScottK> No.  Not for several hours
<Syntux> oh thanks
 * Syntux checking the logs 
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-05
 * robbiew waves
<jdstrand> o/
<kees> o/
<kees> jdstrand: go ahead and start, I'll take up the rear again
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> though I don't have too much
<jdstrand> last week I did get the oo.o update out, did iso testing and worked on libvirt upstreaming (among various other CVE/bug tasks)
<jdstrand> I am close to sending my revised libvirt patch upstream. they are supposed to release a new version friday, so I need to get that out soon
<jdstrand> I hope to send it later today
<jdstrand> I plan to do the icu and devscripts updates this week. I'll get back to updating gnutls after that (small regression reported in Debian that no one has reported in Ubuntu)
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<kees> mdeslaur: your turn
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on backuppc, will release it tomorrow probably
<mdeslaur> and after that, am going down the cve list
<mdeslaur> that's it
<jdstrand> oh, I'm triager this week
 * jdstrand also forgets to state his role
<jdstrand> s/also/always/
<mdeslaur> oh, well, I'm happy place
<kees> I'm on community, gonna test the symlink-mode-777 glib2.0 thing which is now built.  focusing on getting small bugs out of the way for RC, and then going to devote 100% time to help with the eucalyptus root-wrapper issue
<kees> I've started smb on a kernel update, since the list is growing
<kees> need to ping caleb again too on SELinux bits
<kees> (pinged)
<jdstrand> we need to get the dhclient/apparmor workaround out of karmic too-- kees, did you upload that yet? (I thought I remembered you saying you were going to)
<kees> I haven't uploaded that yet -- it requires adding all the conf-removing code to the maintainer scripts
<kees> was going to clone it from procps
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> I've got a couple of bugs I plan to fix this week too
<kees> I'll likely hit that after the euca stuff
<jdstrand> (not in that, just some other stuff)
<kees> I need to get #307019 implemented too
<kees> I did half of it, but the rest remains
<jdstrand> ah, yeah
<jdstrand> users-admin... always a pain
<kees> *grumble*
<kees> anyway... that's it.  any general items/
<kees> ?
<kees> robbiew: anything from you?
<robbiew> not really
<robbiew> just fix bugs! :P
<robbiew> lol
<kees> that's cool.  :)  heh
<jdstrand> stefanlsd has been plugging away at http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanlsd/synclist.html
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: yeah, that's pretty cool.
<jdstrand> yeah, totally
<jdstrand> once it is solid, we should probably just do it automatically for universe/multiverse, and perhaps sends debdiffs somewhere for main/restricted
<kees> ooh, nice.
<kees> jdstrand: as an archive admin, what would be the best way to get a "please sync these for karmic" report?
<kees> and how should that interact with FFe?
<jdstrand> well, they are bugs, not features, so no FFe (unless it is week before release)
<jdstrand> as for requesting a sync... I'm not sure
<jdstrand> I'd need to think about it-- maybe sync to ubuntu-security-proposed
<jdstrand> sync-source.py doesn't have a ppa option
 * jdstrand wonders if he could sync directly to -security using --to-component
<jdstrand> and --to-suite
<jdstrand> anyhoo, would need to think about that
<kees> jdstrand: I meant prior to karmic releasing...
<jdstrand> oh
<jdstrand> heh
<jdstrand> no FFe required
<kees> but yes, the rest is important too
<jdstrand> a standard requestsync bug using the approrpiate target would be fine
<kees> a separate bug for each package?
<jdstrand> target and source
<jdstrand> I think so, or, I could just do it myself
<jdstrand> why don't I just do it myself
<kees> heh, ok
<kees> ok, meeting over?
<jdstrand> that's it for me
<mdeslaur> yep
<kees> cool, thanks!  :)
<jdstrand> o/
<cprofitt> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:58. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Course development workflow update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Course development workflow update
<cprofitt> pleia you are on stage
<cprofitt> pleia2, you are on stage
<bodhi_zazen> go pleia2
<pleia2> oy, jumping the gun by a minute!
<cprofitt> lol
<pleia2> well, this is actually doctormo's :)
<pleia2> hi doctormo! can you give us an update on the course development workflow you've been working on with bioselement?
<doctormo> of course
<doctormo> So as people have seen ont he mailing list
<doctormo> I posted some thoughts on how we administrativly organised the development arm of the project.
<doctormo> the idea is to make the development both administratable and easy to use.
<doctormo> The problems have been that the better the administration, the worse the ease for developers of courses.
<bodhi_zazen> LOL
<doctormo> For instance ODF is good for writers, but a nightmare for patching, translating or publishing for multiple formats.
<pleia2> and diffs in bzr are nice, but not really possible with binary odt files
<doctormo> OTOH docbook and TeX were bad for writters (who didn't have any prior experence) and good for translations, and branching.
<doctormo> So we settled for asciidoc, since it easily exports to docbook, gives us the maxium amount of features with only the barrier of editing text instead of rich-text.
<doctormo> Now asciidoc allows us to compile documents from multiple files,
<doctormo> include them
<doctormo> So to decide what documents we need to make for courses me and BiosElement created a few branches to test out various structures.
<doctormo> Mine turned out to be more officious and not so easy, so working together we've got a way of laying it out
<doctormo> Basically like before the root will contain a directory per course, each directory has a Contact and Notes files for any developer realted documentation.
<pleia2> emergency at work, bbs
<doctormo> It will also contain a template directory
<cprofitt> Will contacts be used for all authors, contributors, etc?
<doctormo> cprofitt: yes, and to point to the right mailing list for review.
<dinda> are you proposing that all course authoring be done in this way?
<doctormo> dinda: There is no other way that fits with how written works can be published and translated.
<dinda> it just seems as though you are way overly complicating things
<doctormo> dinda: It does seem that way, but there are no suggestions that are less complex that fix as many problems.
<cprofitt> dinda, from what perspective?
<dinda> i realize translations are an issue but so is just getting the first course done
<doctormo> dinda: The first courses are done
<cprofitt> doctormo, for my clarification as well this is an issue because you want the courses to be both Moodle and 'written' form?
<dinda> can I outline how I use Moodle to develop a course?
<doctormo> dinda: You can, but I can't see how you can get that data back into a tool as powerful as launchpad for collaberation.
<doctormo> But first I think I will finish off?
<dinda> go for it
<bodhi_zazen> Well, I would like to say thank you to doctormo and bioselement for looking at options
<doctormo> See the common idea is that we need data to be managable. Bzr and lp are the way to do that, it's always worked for developers, there's just some holes in the usability for common folk.
<cprofitt> doctormo, I would like to have an understanding
<cprofitt> is the reason to not work in Moodle so that courses can be 'published' as written work as well as a Moodle course?
<doctormo> We'd like the courses to be published through moodle and published through other media, physical, non-physical, irc, pdfs, we'd like to encourage the maximum amount of mixing that doesn't burden us with administrative tasks such as managing user rights.
<doctormo> In fact I never want to have to enable someone's account so they can join in.
<cprofitt> doctormo, so what will be done about the parts that do not translate from Moodle to other formats?
<doctormo> cprofitt: A way will be found, or they will be cut. There isn't much course data that can't be. Quizes come to mind. All other features of moodle are student/teacher/classroom data, not course data.
<cprofitt> and... to ask another question... if we are going to have all these other formats... what is the role of Moodle in this... what does it do that the other 'formats' can not?
<dinda> doctormo: you're always going to have to enable or approve an account or change permissions/roles when some becomes something other than a student
<doctormo> dinda: In moodle yes, but that's why it's not suitable for development.
<cprofitt> doctormo, I find Moodle suitable for development of Moodle courses
<dinda> but that's EXACTLY what Moodle is -a course development environment
<cprofitt> it is, in fact, where I have done all my Moodle course development
<doctormo> cprofitt: Moodle has management features wich can be used to organise classes and students, so I believe.
<cprofitt> doctormo, it does... as well as to manage development of courses
<cprofitt> the company I did work for had a 'development' server
<doctormo> One person creating courses is not a community creating courses.
<cprofitt> and a 'production' server
<cprofitt> courses were designed and tested on the development server and migrated to the 'production' server when complete
<dinda> doctormo: yes, there is a course creator role that is even above instructor role
<cprofitt> refinements were made on the development server.
 * cprofitt nods as dinda
<cprofitt> an admin role too
<dinda> cprofitt: we use the same model; development/test server then migrate to production when ready to publish
<doctormo> Right, and those rolls are administrative burdens, we don't have time to manage our tools like the pros do. The more that is handled by social mechanics the better.
<dinda> doctormo: now as far as being able to publish a written version of a course, then no, that's always gonig to be another step; Moodle is for online courses
<doctormo> If we're constantly enabeling people to create new branch courses, we'll never get anything done.
<dinda> doctormo: all you're doing is shifting the admin to LP/BZR
<cprofitt> two things:  1) I have not used the asciidocs so I will not try to speak to compare the tools, but  2) have you developed a course in Moodle doctormo ?
<doctormo> dinda: And bzr/lp does the job without user input.
<dinda> you still have to create the core commitet team and have a process for those rights
<doctormo> cprofitt: I tried, it wasn't possible. failed.
<cprofitt> doctormo, you could not make a course?
<doctormo> I couldn't understand the majority of the interface to be honest. From what I could grasp at, it was asking me to create resources.
<cprofitt> to be honest doctormo, until a person has used both I do not feel we have anyone qualified to decide which to use
<cprofitt> if you did not understand the interface then you can not honestly make claims that A is better than B
<cprofitt> just that you know A better
<dinda> doctormo: that's pretty standard process for any LMS or even website. . .
<doctormo> cprofitt: the problem is, I see moodle as a sufficient development platform for a company. but not for a community, it lacks a lot fo the tools we use to make random developments and merge in the best ones.
<cprofitt> Did you look at the course I uploaded on how to make Moodle course before trying to make yours?
<doctormo> Yes
<dinda> doctormo: you upload all the resources (images/files, etc) then link to them from your main site - makes it easier to reuse objects
<cprofitt> doctormo, I don't see how you could make such a judgment prior to understanding the tool
<doctormo> cprofitt: Because while I failed at making a course propperly, the tool is structured in a way that would make such development either hacked on top or impossible.
<dinda> doctormo: Moodle was designed to be used by teachers - it really can't be any simpler
<doctormo> Unless you can prove otherwise.
<cprofitt> doctormo, sorry to be blunt here. Your 'failure' to make a course does not require me to prove anything
<bodhi_zazen> doctormo: I must admit I am not sure where you are going with this discussion
<cprofitt> I would love to work with you and assist you in developing a course...
<bodhi_zazen> modle is used by many people and so obviously it works
<cprofitt> but I would never declare an authoritative opinion on a product just because it escaped me...
<bodhi_zazen> so I can not tell what exactly you are having a problem with, a feature that is missing or that you need assistance learning the interface
<cprofitt> hence why I refuse to make a claim concerning asciidocs
<dinda> doctormo: no there's no reason why you can't use the process you want to develop your course - but we should be able to use Moodle as our standard
<cprofitt> I think perhaps you and I should trade-off doctormo - you teach me asciidocs and I can teach you Moodle
<doctormo> Seems like we should split the project, I'm not comfortable using moodle and now I feel like I'm being forced out.
 * cprofitt sighs
<bodhi_zazen> Outside of the people in this room , I have a very close friend who uses Moodle to develop courses for the local university, so if you need help ...
<bodhi_zazen> split the project into what ?
<doctormo> It's true that I should be taught
<dinda> doctormo: not at all, if you're comfortable with your process, that's great
<cprofitt> doctormo, we are offering to assist you in learning Moodle
<doctormo> But I don't like the idea of using moodle as our standard
<cprofitt> and I am offering to learn asciidocs
<cprofitt> well we looked at many LMS variants and chose Moodle as a group doctormo
<doctormo> the only thing against bzr/lp is that it's uncomfortable too.
<cprofitt> the only think against bzr/lp is its not an LMS
<doctormo> cprofitt: I thought that was for a publishing point, I didn't think we'd gone and done it in for a development site too.
<dinda> doctormo: then why even have a Moodle server, in your workflow?  you can accomplish the same thing with just a website
<cprofitt> and for the record can we, as a group, not all threaten to split the project when the group doesn't tag along with one person's idea
<doctormo> dinda: Could you? I looked into that, websites don't have forums or marking or student rosters.
<cprofitt> this is the second time that has happened and it is childish
<dinda> cprofitt: +1
<doctormo> cprofitt: +1
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, we looked at Sakai, Moodle and one other... do you remember the name?
<dinda> doctormo: exactly, all of that is integrated into the Moodle workflow, those are just elements of the overall course
<dinda> http://barrysampson.com/2009/04/open-source-lms-10-alternatives-to-moodle/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://barrysampson.com/2009/04/open-source-lms-10-alternatives-to-moodle/
<dinda> those are all the open source alternatives - they all do the same thing, slight variations
<doctormo> I thought moodle was the chosen LMS
<cprofitt> Moodle is well embedded in K-12
<dinda> Moodle was chosen months ago - it's as good/bad and any other LMS
<cprofitt> and Moodle was what we chose, as a group, after reviewing several
<doctormo> sounds like that choice is settled then
<BiosElement> Frankly, while I dislike moodle I have to support it because from what I've seen, nothing is better.
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen found technical issues with most of the others
<dinda> It's also what Canonical uses - so if the group ever migrates to them hosting it wold be an easier process
<dinda> BiosElement: +!
<bodhi_zazen> +1 BiosElement
<dinda> +1 even
<bodhi_zazen> that is what we all feel about Moodle
<dinda> all require a certain investment in learning how to use
<cprofitt> +1
<bodhi_zazen> We found a very nice alternate, but no one could install it
<cprofitt> Moodle was far from perfect...
<cprofitt> but it was the best all around package
<cprofitt> Sakai right?
<dinda> but Moodle is specifically designed to just give to a teacher and set them loose  to make courses
<cprofitt> +1 dinda
<BiosElement> After you run the teacher through 3 months of training ;) But yes, It's the best lms currently.
<cprofitt> BiosElement, actually in my school we have 4 teachers who got 1 four hour session -- they are using Moodle
<dinda> BiosElement: dunno, I've had several non-techy teachers jump right in and get going on developing in Moodle
<dinda> the thing, the metaphors make sense to educators
<BiosElement> Well then maybe it's the techy people like me who can't stand it >.<
<cprofitt> BiosElement, I am a techie and I found Moodle to be fall out of bed easy...
<cprofitt> just limited
<dinda> BiosElement: it models how they create courses in the real world
<cprofitt> +1 dinda
<dinda> you create your course overview, topics, find your resources for each and group into Moodle by either Topic or other options
<dinda> ok, so back to the topic - wher are we?
 * cprofitt blinks twice
<cprofitt> I think what this has revealed is that we need to reaffirm that Moodle is our LMS
<dinda> I propose we let course authors chose their preferred workflow
<doctormo> We were talking about the structure being used by me to develop courses.
<cprofitt> and we need to offer some training to 'developers'
<cprofitt> so that they can learn how to use Moodle...
<cprofitt> from that we really need to 'build a how-to course' that is self-paced
<bodhi_zazen> Well, does moodle use "developers" ?
 * BiosElement coughs
<cprofitt> they are caused course developers
<cprofitt> but not 'developers' as in programmers
<bodhi_zazen> Ah
<doctormo> dinda: Choice like that can cause a lot of lost energy, it diserpates. If a user develops a course painting words into corel draw, do we allow that?
<cprofitt> nor 'developers' as in machines that create photographs
<bodhi_zazen> lol cprofitt
<dinda> doctormo: why not?  the issue seems to be just getting content/courses developed
<cprofitt> doctormo, I lost touch with this group, but I thought the target was always Moodle
<cprofitt> if a person wants to develop it in ABC program and then paste it in too Moodle I do not care...
<cprofitt> but the final course must be in Moodle IMHO
<doctormo> cprofitt: The target still is, the development shifted since there were people writing courses and no one teaching moodle.
<bodhi_zazen> well doctormo , we have not discussed the full scope of courses we wish to host , but I suppose courses will need to be agreed on
<dinda> doctormo: Linuxchix lets course developers chose their workflow and it works; granted they've only had less than a half dozen courses ever published
<doctormo> But I've always supported moodle as a publishing end point.
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: I think all that is on the wiki isn't it?
<dinda> doctormo: the bigger issue is getting content, IF the project gets to the point that there are so many courses, you have to limit contributors then that's a good thing
<cprofitt> then we can offer asciidoc and Moodle as a development environment?
<BiosElement> Moodle is the final product users read, not what course authors use. >.>
<doctormo> cprofitt: Can we get moodle developers to dump their docs into text and send them to the mailing list for peer review?
<dinda> doctormo: I assure you, once that point is reached, then folks will be asking for a more standard workflow and templates but right now we have what 3 course developers?
<BiosElement> If we use moodle we will fall into the trap of "Quick and Easy" which will quickly become "Impossible to Update".
<bodhi_zazen> If the final product is Moodle, why not allow course developers to select the tools they use ?
<bodhi_zazen> some may use moodle, some may use other tools
<cprofitt> BiosElement, what makes Moodle impossible to update?
<dinda> BiosElement: ditto
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: it'll need work to bring it back into sane development formats.
 * bodhi_zazen likes quick and easy
<cprofitt> doctormo, I would think courses should be reviewed as a course
<dinda> you udate it the same way you updates anything
<cprofitt> as in hosted in Moodle
<bodhi_zazen> doctormo: why ?
<BiosElement> cprofitt, From my expirence with using several moodle sites as both a student and a developer, I've yet to see one that actually works 'well' and is easily updated.
<cprofitt> parts might be reviewed outside of that... but how can the end product be reviewed outside the framework of the final?
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: so the courses can be translated, experimented with, published in other ways.
<BiosElement> Also I'll note the lack of VCS as a major problem with moodle.
<bodhi_zazen> but that is not our initial goal doctormo
<bodhi_zazen> we are publishing on Moodle
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: Of course
<cprofitt> Moodle can also 'link out' to other resources...
<bodhi_zazen> translation is a whole project onto itself
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: The inital goal was to write a course, I did that in ODF and it now needs to be translated into asciidoc so it can be managed.
<cprofitt> as a teacher might give reading assignments you can assign 'out side content' in a Moodle activity
<bodhi_zazen> and "published in other ways" means what exactly ?
<bodhi_zazen> Why did you not write a course in Moodle ?
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: It means pdfs in websites, it means face book apps it means things not thought of yet.
<BiosElement> Also it means nicely made printed docs
<bodhi_zazen> Well doctormo , no offense, but those goals are secondary at best
<bodhi_zazen> IMO at least
<dinda> http://www.linux-for-education.org/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.linux-for-education.org/
<BiosElement> bodhi_zazen, Why make them secondary when they can be easily made with minimal effort? That's frankly just silly and short sighted for the "quick and simple" way.
<bodhi_zazen> I mean what you are asking is a very tall order for something like Moodle
<dinda> There's an example of site built all in Moodle to host linux/foss course materials
<cprofitt> dinda, that is Moodle
<bodhi_zazen> Because BiosElement , we are developing a Moodle site, which is more then printing PDF documents, lol
<cprofitt> nice example
<bodhi_zazen> BiosElement: doctormo what you may wish to do as authors is fine with me, but I do not understand why we need to change the core goals of this project
<doctormo> then it sounds like we _do_ have two projects here, and I'm not suggesting that as a course of action. I'm saying that as an observation.
<doctormo> Those who want to write courses and those who want to publish moodle courses.
<cprofitt> doctormo, here is a good link from dinda's site -- http://www.linux-for-education.org/course/view.php?id=28
<BiosElement> bodhi_zazen, ...You're not listening and quite frankly I don't want to continue arguing this very simple point. There are two options. #1: Use a standard format which will be easy to update in the future and distribute in any forms needed or #2: WYSIWYG with web soup tags, no VCS and fixed formats.
<bodhi_zazen> what two projects doctormo ?
<bodhi_zazen> That sounds a little hostile BiosElement
<bodhi_zazen> I have listened
<cprofitt> BiosElement, I have not found Moodle hard to update...
<bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: and others are indicating Moodle can do what we want
<doctormo> BiosElement: There's no need to get aggressive, we can work this out.
<cprofitt> I have used it to develop a course and evolve it as information changes
<dinda> BiosElement: I don't see those options as being mutally exclusive
<cprofitt> Honestly I think we can have a loose work flow
<bodhi_zazen> Moodle is fairly standard
<dinda> BiosElement: and you have to go back to primary goal of the project - to get materials developed
<cprofitt> use the tools you want, but final review is in Moodle
<BiosElement> bodhi_zazen, Apologies if It sounded hostile. Just Was not intended to be.
<cprofitt> as it is what we deliver courses with
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: It can't do what I want, I just want to write courses, it can't do that for _me_. Maybe a training problem, but then I did call on the group to organise training and was blown off multiple times.
<cprofitt> if course writer A wants to use Microsoft Office - so be it
<doctormo> Not until last week did we have anyone helping learning moodle.
<BiosElement> dinda, And part of developing materials is keeping them updated...That's a major part.
<cprofitt> if course write B wants to use notepad I am fine with that too
<dinda> BiosElement: I'm saying if we get to the point that we have sooo many courses to update, keep track of - we've had succeeded
<cprofitt> doctormo, I was here in July and June willing to teach
<bodhi_zazen> doctormo: I am not sure I agree with that
<cprofitt> unfortunately August and September are busy for me
<bodhi_zazen> many people have offered to help learn moodls
<bodhi_zazen> *moodle
<dinda> BiosElement: the course owner/author should be responsible for updating, if a course become outdated, it can easily be removed or deprecated
<cprofitt> +1 dinda
<doctormo> cprofitt: Willing to teach isn't the same as organising it. I never saw any events to attend to learn it, and what I've attended so far hasn't improved my abilitity to use it.
<cprofitt> +1 again for dinda
<cprofitt> doctormo, irc is not the right format for teaching it
<cprofitt> IMHO
<doctormo> I agree
<bodhi_zazen> As a note to the group, can we please reduce the hostility in this project ?
<cprofitt> It would involve us using some voice communication method and you asking 'how do I'
<bodhi_zazen> I do not like the hostility, we need to compromise to find solutions
<cprofitt> or using a shared screen
<dinda> dimdim works
<doctormo> cprofitt: sounds like a plan
<cprofitt> dimdim?
<cprofitt> doctormo, we can set a date/time after the meeting
<dinda> open source webex type plarform
<dinda> online meetings/screensharing
<cprofitt> http://www.linux-for-education.org/course/view.php?id=28
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.linux-for-education.org/course/view.php?id=28
<cprofitt> that course looks fairly good
<dinda> they even have a moodle plug-in
<cprofitt> dinda, nice... I will have to learn about that...
<cprofitt> are we at a close... that we need to investigate getting a solid Moodle training program in place for the core team?
<cprofitt> [VOTE] Work on developing a 'how to use Moodle' course
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Work on developing a 'how to use Moodle' course.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<doctormo> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from doctormo. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dinda> How will these be different from the other existing How to develop Moodle courses out there?
 * cprofitt any more votes?
<bodhi_zazen> dinda: I am in favor of using existing resources if at all possible
<cprofitt> dinda, I am not sure it will be... but we need to explore those and either use them or improve them
<cprofitt> I think the core difference is that we are 'teaching' non-educators how to use this product
<cprofitt> and that might be a different target audience than the other courses have
<bodhi_zazen> and I think there is a difference between tools to develop moodle courses and tools to develop moodle + PDF + who knows what =)
<doctormo> And we'd probably be able to develop something that doesn't have NC terms.
 * cprofitt any more votes
<st33med> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from st33med. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
 * cprofitt last call for votes
<dinda> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from dinda. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<cprofitt> [AGREED] The group needs to develop a how to use Moodle course using all available resources
<MootBot> AGREED received:  The group needs to develop a how to use Moodle course using all available resources
<cprofitt> as there are no other topics and we have reached the end of our time
<cprofitt> I motion to close the meeting
 * cprofitt seconds?
<doctormo> seconded
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:58.
<cprofitt> thank you for attending everyone...
<cprofitt> let us all keep focused on working as a team and overcoming the barriers
<cprofitt> its a struggle but one well worth the effort
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-06
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * ogra stumbles in
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20091006
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20091006
<NCommander> [link] http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
 * NCommander waits for his coffee to cool
<paulliu> hi
<ogra> how about you call people by name first ? :)
<dyfet> here
<lool> hey
 * GrueMaster mumbles incoherently.  
 * NCommander pours coffee on GrueMaster, StevenK, JamieBennett, 
<JamieBennett> :P
<lool> davidm bjf njpatel: poke
<davidm> hi NCommander
<NCommander> JamieBennett, coffee is a way of life on this team
<NCommander> morning davidm
<JamieBennett> I have my waayyyy oversized coffee cup in hand
<davidm> Coffee, mmmm Good
<ogra> NCommander, brits != coffee :)
<ogra> NCommander, brits == tea
<JamieBennett> ogra: Not necessarily
<ogra> oh, JamieBennett might be an exception :)
<JamieBennett> Coffee and Green Tea for me
 * NCommander has his new "interesting" blend of coffee beans, black.
 * ogra always thought tea and marmaid make you a ture brit :)
<ogra> *true even
<NCommander> Oooh, marmaid ...
<JamieBennett> orgra: that's tea and scones
<ogra> heh
<NCommander> JamieBennett, your lucky though, you get Marmite
<mvo> green tea++
<NCommander> Its a PAIN to fine in the united states
 * NCommander gives it another minute before actually starting
<JamieBennett> I'll bring some over for UDS ;)
<NCommander> JamieBennett, !
<NCommander> JamieBennett, yay!
<paulliu> mermaid?
<ogra> lol
<GrueMaster> wake me when the real meeting starts.
<NCommander> paulliu, I'll introduce you to it
 * NCommander pokes StevenK 
<ogra> s/it/her/ ?
<NCommander> No StevenK ...
<lool> 10% of meeting time already flew by; let's move on
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] dyfet to move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable amd64
<MootBot> New Topic:  dyfet to move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable amd64
 * StevenK arrives
<StevenK> Sorry guys
<dyfet> New architectures (amd64 included) were enabled
<NCommander> dyfet, so I can run lubuntu on my ia64? :-)
<lool> I tested the RTC fix and it doesn't work for me
<ogra> did it move ?
<NCommander> ah, ok
<dyfet> yes
<lool> Neither on babbage 2.0 nor on 2.5
<NCommander> [topic] Current Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Current Items
<ogra> where to ?
<lool> Even after nights of charing
<lool> *charging
<NCommander> lool, this might be a stupid suggestion, but is it possible the RTC battery has been discharged for so long that it won't charge anymore/
<dyfet> NCommander: and on your sparc and ia64 too ;)
<ogra> dyfet, where did it move to ?
<lool> dyfet: the current package says: seed_base: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop/+junk,bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/
<NCommander> lool, my powermac's batteries are notourious for doing that.
<lool>  -- David Sugar <david.sugar@canonical.com>  Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:52:01 -0400
<GrueMaster> dyfet: will there be daily images available on cdimage.ubuntu.com?
<lool> GrueMaster: No
<dyfet> It was kept in the community repository because that is what the community wanted
<ogra> NCommander, read the bug :)
 * NCommander coughs
<NCommander> Anyway
<dyfet> GrueMaster: we did not commit to having lubuntu spins, just a meta
<ogra> NCommander, we measured voltage
<lool> dyfet: The problem is with the /+junk part
<lool> dyfet: This is what I've complained about since 3 weeks+
<NCommander> ogra, too geeky!
<lool> dyfet: It takes 5 minutes to fix it
 * NCommander should probably have a multimeter though
<ogra> .oO(it would be good if we wouldnt discuss two topics at once)
<lool> dyfet: So plesae push to /ubuntu-seeds/lubuntu.karmic and update lubuntu-meta to match
<dyfet> lool: ok
<ogra> mr. chair ...
<lool> dyfet: We've lost more time tracking this than fixing it
 * ogra looks at NCommander 
<NCommander> [action] dyfet and lool to move lubuntu seed to proper location and push the package
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet and lool to move lubuntu seed to proper location and push the package
<NCommander> There
<NCommander> [topic] Specification Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Review
<lool> I cant move it, I'm in ~lubuntu-dev
<NCommander> [link] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/~canonical-mobile?show=all
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/~canonical-mobile?show=all
<lool> GrueMaster: Did you look into trimming down UNR this week?
<NCommander> oh wow, eveyrthing ont he spec page is either implemented or deferred
<NCommander> so ..
<GrueMaster> No, I have been focusing on UMR.
<NCommander> [topic] UNR Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  UNR Status
<StevenK> Is Wubi deferred then?
<lool> NCommander: Well some work items are still open
<StevenK> Wubi just needs testing, but my Windows install went kaboom
<ogra> NCommander, it would be nice if you wouldnt race through the items so fast
<lool> NCommander: the specs are considered implemented in that they are mostly done and we only need to fix optional stuff but we should review them still
<StevenK> (Who woulda thunk it)
<NCommander> StevenK, you installed Windows?
<ogra> we start getting a lot overlapping discussions here
<NCommander> right, ok, hold on
<lool> NCommander: he did but StevenK is blockde on a wubi bug
<NCommander> [topic] Spec Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Spec Discussion
<lool> wubi and unr translations are blocked outside of mobile team
<lool> release team knows about wubi, kyle knows about trasnlations
<StevenK> lool: I've heard that wubi is, or should be fixed
<lool> Oh cool
<ogra> there was some work during beta release
<lool> Apart of that moblin moving to universe is still in progress
<lool> and lsb testing will continue til release
<StevenK> I was planning to test it today, but Windows is ka-boom
<lool> So we only need to check for wubi moblin and UNR status next week
<davmor2> StevenK: today's installer is a bit borked which isn't helping wubi
<paulliu> lool: there will be a 3-rd run of sync to universe. Is it still able to sync after Beta??
<lool> paulliu: Probably
<paulliu> lool: ok.
<lool> paulliu: new stuff or moblin stuff I would guess so
 * NCommander recommends anyone who has a machine capable of running UNR and has a Windows install should help test
<lool> NCommander: Ok to move on for me
<paulliu> lool: Why moblin spec is not in that page?
<paulliu> I mean blueprints
<NCommander> anyone else got anything?
<lool> paulliu: It's on http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/karmic/report.html
<paulliu> ok. thanks
<NCommander> [topic] UNR Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  UNR Status
<lool> paulliu: Should appear now
<lool> UNR status is good; I pushed the theme update, desktop-switcher removal
<lool> and added software-center to favorites
<StevenK> I concur
<lool> didnt test that last change
<plars> ?
<lool> Someone saw it in favorites?
<lool> I just pushed this morning
<plars> ah
<lool> But an update should get it
<StevenK> It wouldn't have hit the daily then
<lool> The rest was pushed yesterday though
<ogra> plars, you dont test in your sleep ? what kind of QA guy are you ?
<lool> I pushed the latest upstream releases
<lool> StevenK: did I miss any tarball?
<StevenK> lool: I'll check that tomorrow morning
<plars> ogra: I could wind up filing some interesting bugs that way
<lool> Concerning seeds, I pulled the latest changes; StevenK did I miss any there?
<ogra> hehe
<StevenK> lool: Not that I saw.
<lool> I expect some more icon updates for bugs discovered after the lsat update
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<lool> 430277 > will wontfix
<lool> The rest if upstream
<lool> Ok nothing else for me on UNR
<lool> StevenK: you?
<StevenK> lool: Nope, I'm good
<NCommander> [topic] UMR Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  UMR Status
<paulliu> TMC5 ported is done. Moblin2.1 is done.
<lool> Wow
<lool> Cool
<lool> paulliu: Is 2.1 final?
<paulliu> Not yet. But we are follow up them now.
<lool> I did the /etc/apt/preferences fixes; took me 2.5 days to get them right  :-(
<NCommander> lool, ow
<paulliu> And anerley can be sync to universe now. So anjal (anjal-anerley) can also be in universe.
<lool> High prio issues on my radar: fixing /etc/apt/sources.list after install and fixing the APT popup during install (might relate)
<lool> the preferneces file didn't help these bugs though
<lool> paulliu: excellent
<lool> paulliu: You have a double-build anjal already?
<StevenK> lool: So /etc/apt/sources.list can be fixed with a preseed file change
<paulliu> lool: Yes. Already.
<lool> StevenK: Good to know; could you share that in the bug?
<paulliu> lool: We just need to debdiff the one in PPA and in universe and file the bug.
<lool> paulliu: You rock
<ogra> ++
<plars> nice
<lool> paulliu: Anything else release worthy for UMR?
<StevenK> lool: What's the bug number?
<lool> I personally can hardly run UMR
<GrueMaster> Next step would be to have Moblin installed with UNR & KNR.  Makes for one hell of a demo install.
<paulliu> lool: No. We need another FFe for 3-rd run of syncing. Including moblin-mutter and moblin-panel-*
<lool> On my eeepc 701sd, it's slow as hell (I mean I need to wait 5 secs for text to appear in terminal)
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Kubuntu Netbook is not a remix
<lool> In vbox it's similar, slightly better, but cant run ubiquity
<lool> StevenK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-moblin-remix/+bug/420048
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420048 in ubiquity "No sources.list entry for the Moblin PPA" [Undecided,New]
<lool> paulliu: We need a new FFE?
<lool> paulliu: Are these new packages?
<paulliu> lool: We have to fix the sources.list in Ubiquity, right?
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
<paulliu> lool: yes, new packages.
<lool> paulliu: Well StevenK says it can be done in preseed (cdimage/debian-cd stuff)
<lool> paulliu: Ok; I think it's ok to just use the same FFE but feel free to file a new one if you prefer (weren't mentionnde in first FFE)
<lool> ScottK: Your opinion?
<paulliu> lool: OK.
<lool> ScottK: New FFE needed or ok to reuse the moblin FFE when pushing entirely new packages to universe?
<lool> (moblin specific)
<lool> Our moblin ffe for karmic is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/425547
<ScottK> lool: I figured your FFe was open season for whatever moblin stuff you thought best.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 425547 in Ubuntu Karmic "Ubuntu Moblin Remix: Merging ~moblin PPA packages into karmic" [Undecided,In progress]
<lool> ScottK: Ok thanks
<paulliu> ScottK: thanks.
<lool> paulliu: I think it's ok as these are fully new packages
<lool> paulliu: anjal needs a separate FFE though
<lool> and a reviewer
<paulliu> lool: ok.
<lool> StevenK: Could you review the anjal changes for merging in kramic?
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-moblin
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-moblin
<lool> So good
<lool> StevenK: Anything else we need to cover for moblin?
<StevenK> lool: I can, if paulliu points me at when it's filed
<lool> (UNR update -- netbook remix -- njpatel tells us that we should expect some bug fixes updates before end of week)
<StevenK> lool: Not that I can think of.
<paulliu> StevenK: Not yet. I'll file that bug soon.
<lool> paulliu: Can you sub StevenK to the anjal update so that we can quickly review + sponsor it once the FFE is approved?
<paulliu> lool: ok.
<lool> My only concern is to not break moblin with major updates near final
<lool> or rc
<lool> So if we just fix what we mentionned and release, I'm happy
<lool> NCommander: Ok to move on
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<lool> Hmm we didn't cover ARM bugs
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-armel
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-armel
<ogra> imx kernel bugs seem to actually get forward
<lool> I'm getting help from jk on the ethernet issue
<ogra> yeah
<lool> he provided two test kernels this morning
<ogra> bjf, i added a bunch of hacks to bug 438680
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438680 in linux-fsl-imx51 "please quieten down bootmessages" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438680
<lool> I have the feeling some easy bugs are not taken care of
<bjf> I looked into the RTC bug, applied Amitk's suggestion and it didn't help (it made it worse) ...
<lool> I think we should have had weekly meetings with kernel team to discuss them earlier
<ogra> bjf, look at my last comment
<bjf> ogra, I've just applied those and am building
<ogra> there are multiple options
<lool> As in, every week review the armel bugs with kernel team
<ogra> (for RTC)
<bjf> ogra, will check on it
<ogra> i think the disabled one is the jaunty one amit referred to actually
<lool> Things which are not filed as bugs yet (I think) but would be nice to have if time permits: 2d GPU enabling patch for babbage and lange 5.1 patches merged in
<ogra> bjf, also the regulator messages seen in the bootmsg bug imply that something doesnt properly hook into the kernel subsystem
<bjf> ogra, will look at it again, and retest
<ogra> lool, ++
<lool> Dove is in relatively good shape except that partman-uboot is really needed
<ogra> well, alternate for imx51 doesnt work at all yet
<lool> It would also be nice to have better documentation for various installer options and to provide an uboot for Y1 boards, but overall it's ok
<bjf> am also hoping to look at bug 438687 today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438687 in linux-fsl-imx51 "FEC driver does not set "DRIVER" property in udev which makes network-manager fail" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438687
<ogra> we're still waiting for NIC modules for netinst images
<lool> ogra: We are?
<ogra> and the general alternate dies on searching for the CD
<lool> ogra: I though nic was builtin?
<ogra> lool, yes, the bug is fix committed
<lool> Hmm ok
<ogra> the builtin NIC doesnt work at all
<bjf> ogra, do you just need a build?
<ogra> though i see it
<lool> I thought it worked again now?
<ogra> but cant connect
<lool> Except in NM
<ogra> not in d-i
<lool> Ouch that's odd
<ogra> right, in normal systems it works just fine
<ogra> yes
<lool> bjf: jk has WIP patches on bug 438687
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438687 in linux-fsl-imx51 "FEC driver does not set "DRIVER" property in udev which makes network-manager fail" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438687
<ogra> i discovered that during beta testing but postponed furtehr research
<lool> bjf: Ann from FSL will also help with what she can
<lool> bjf: perhaps one bug worth your attention is the audio one
<ogra> ++
<lool> It has relevant hints and suggestions, just not a tested patch
<ogra> we need to test the audio apps
<ogra> its way to late to even fix them if we find issues
<lool> Outside of kernel stuff, there's also the toolchain situation
<ogra> but we should at least be able to list them before release
<lool> doko (hey) pushed a new binutils earier today
<NCommander> ogra, maybe we should have a specification for that for lucid
<lool> I think we miss an updated gcc-4.4 patch
<lool> and then we should rebuild the world
<lool> well the C++ world mostly
<ogra> NCommander, make kernels work early enough spec ?
<NCommander> ogra, for testing audio applications and having a set policy for it
<doko> lool: not yet ready, tracking down some binutils gold build problems
<lool> bjf: Thanks for helping with the imx51 bugs; they need some love right now   ;-)
<ogra> NCommander, we have no prob testing audio apps
<ogra> NCommander, we have no sound devices
<lool> bjf: basically they are filling up the list of armel bugs we care about
<NCommander> d'oh
<bjf> lool, that's all I'm doing this week (and probably next)
 * ogra hugs bjf for taking the blame during this week 
<lool> bjf: Ok cool
 * NCommander hugs bjf for his work
<lool> bjf: Do you have anything to raise in terms of dove/imx51 status on your side?
<lool> bjf: What would you think of a weekly kernel/mobile meeting to review armel bugs?
<bjf> lool, not really, dove looks good to me
<lool> Perhaps bjf+amitk+OEM kernel engineers who'd like that+ogra+NCommander+lool if around
<ogra> NCommander, do you have the rotatoing MAC issue fixed ?
<bjf> lool, between this meeting and the kernel team meeting in 3.5 hours do we need more?
<ogra> lool, ++
<lool> +Jamie too now  :)
<NCommander> ogra, no, but if its set in u-boot, it seems to go away
<JamieBennett> :)
<lool> bjf: Well amitk isn't usually attending these meetings and we usually dont attend kernel meetings
<ogra> NCommander, well, what do you do ? randomly generater one in your uboot script for each install ?
<lool> bjf: I have the feeling other people here or in the kernel meeting would be bored if we covered status of each individual bug
<lool> bjf: But if you think we should make room in either of these meetings, that's ok with me
<NCommander> ogra, I brought that up on the board, but I'm not qualified to say how the MAC should be handled or not
<bjf> lool, I guess I don't mind another meeting, need to discuss with amit when would be good for him
<lool> bjf: let's make it simplest for you and amit
<lool> bjf: check with him and tell us where you want us to cover armel bugs weekly in depth
<lool> NCommander: [action] $@ ^
<bjf> lool, ack
<ogra> lool, oh, btw, dyfet wanted to package the fsl gstreamer codecs ...
<lool> bjf: thanks
<ogra> dyfet, whats the status there ?
<NCommander> [topic] bjf to check with amit on going indepth on armel bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  bjf to check with amit on going indepth on armel bugs
<ogra> (since i'm still busy with xserver and reproducing kernel issues)
<dyfet> ogra: in progress
<lool> Ok; anything else armel?
<lool> Anything else at all?
<lool> davidm: You have any queries?
<ogra> dyfet, please make sure to contact me if you get stuck anywhere
 * NCommander wonders when he should start hitting the spec drum
<davidm> I'm interested in when the corrected toolchain will be in place.
<dyfet> ogra: okay
<lool> davidm: toolchain > first round of uploads had a broken patch; second round is failing to build for now; once it's in we can check whether it helps oo.o and also kick some rebuilds of various packges; there aren't too many and it's not a big deal, should be doable for release
<lool> Hopefully toolchain should be built tomorrow
<davidm> OK, make sure mono in in the queue for rebuild
<lool> doko: What do you think?
<ogra> davidm, mono doesnt use C++
<lool> mono didn't show up on my list
<davidm> lool, if you are sure
<lool> It could be affected by other libraries
<dyfet> ogra: the bug I have in it seems exception related
<ogra> generally mono works fine
<lool> I mean worst case we can give it a try, in a second batch of rebuilds perhaps
<davidm> OK
<doko> lool: tomorrow is optimistic, but Thu should work
<lool> AFAIK it works at least basically; e.g. tomboy starts up
<ogra> seems to be issues with specific functions from specific libs
<lool> doko: Ok; good to know thanks
<ogra> dyfet, most mono apps i tested work fine ... did you track it down to a specific lib or function ?
<dyfet> ogra: I get corrupted stack frames, but what you suggest is plausable that it is tied to a specific library that raises an exception
<ogra> right, else we would see it across the board
<dyfet> ogra: agreed
<ogra> and i personally only see banshee fail
<ogra> though with a totally different error than you
<lool> let's start wiht rebuilding what we know is borken and see if that improves
<ogra> (still btw, i tested on the weekend)
<lool> We could do a mono rebuild afterwards but I dont think it will help
<dyfet> ogra: and I still get mine, which is different ;)
<lool> Any other topic anyone?
<ogra> lool, do you have your new n900 already ? and do you bring it on the WE ?
<ogra> :)
<ian_brasil> lool, you have an N900?
<ian_brasil> we do not have N900 and we work for Nokia !
<lool> ian_brasil: Sure, I have a N1010 too; you dont?
<lool> ian_brasil: Seriously though, no I dont
<ogra> hehe
<JamieBennett> lol
<lool> I find it funny that ian_brasil is on the chan and jumps in the air as soon as N900 appears  ;-)
<ogra> yeah
 * lool plans to buy one near end of year if price permits
<ogra> how about MIR while you are here ?
<lool> But not something really relevant here  ;-)
 * NCommander is considering an N900 himself
<ogra> any news ?
<ian_brasil> i am waiting for the second hand market to appear
<lool> ogra: MIR?
<ogra> err
<ogra> MER
<lool> Oh
<lool> ogra: I think ian_brasil had his own project; loosely connected to Mer
<ogra> ah
<ian_brasil> we talked with the Mer guys ..seems they have latest python-hildon packaged
<lool> Not sure we need to cover it here and now though; it's karmic+1 material at this point Id guess
<ogra> likely indeed
<lool> ogra, ian_brasil: Let's chat about that in #ubuntu-mobile and plan that for lucid
<lool> anything else?
<ian_brasil> lool, ok
<lool> NCommander: I guess you can close; thanks for chairing!
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:50.
<lool> NCommander: You might want to add an action for dyfet;s packaging of gst bits
<ogra> thanks
<NCommander> lool, will do
<ogra> oh, yeah
<ogra> time is getting short slowly :)
<pitti> hello
<pitti> cjwatson, kees, mdz, Keybuk: reminder for TB meeting in 5 mins
<cjwatson> yes
<mdz> pitti: here
<mdz> bdale: welcome
<bdale> mdz: g'morning from Colorado!
<pitti> hey bdale
<bdale> pitti: hi
<cjwatson> hello. hmm, not much of an agenda this week!
<mdz> err
<mdz> that's not right
<pitti> I SMSed Keybuk
<mdz> pitti: in general, we keep WIP items on the agenda until they're complete, so that we're checking progress at each meeting
<pitti> mdz: ok, ok; I just commented them for now, let me restore
<bdale> where is the agenda?
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<bdale> cjwatson: thanks!
<pitti> restored, please reload agenda
<pitti> sabdfl pinged, Keybuk doesn't seem to respond; should we wait a bit for him, or start?
<mdz> pitti: clan has nudged sabdfl; he is in the meeting room a few meters away
<cjwatson> I got mail from Keybuk not that long ago ...
<mdz> pitti: sabdfl came back to his desk but has now gone off somewhere else; I recommend that we do not wait for him
<cjwatson> we ought to go on though. How about kees?
<pitti> pinged, but no response either
<pitti> looking for his mobile number and SMSing him
<mdz> pitti: I'll do that, so you can get started with the agenda
<mdz> we're already running late
<pitti> ok, thanks
<pitti> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is pitti.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda is the current agenda
<pitti> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meeting
<pitti> Keybuk to find Bdale at LinuxCon to hash out participation
<pitti> given that bdale is here, this obviously worked :)
<cjwatson> however
<cjwatson> we should actually take the opportunity to talk about how the Debian relationship here is going to work
<cjwatson> otherwise it's a bit silly :-)
<Keybuk> I did manage to talk to bdale briefly over lunch one day at LPC
<bdale> right, not a long chat, but useful
<pitti> right; let's turn this into a separate agenda topic, though, shall we?
<cjwatson> ok
 * cjwatson defers to the chair
<bdale> I'd be pleased to more or less observe a meeting or two, then have a discussion.  make sense?
<pitti> [TOPIC] TB/Debian relationship
<MootBot> New Topic:  TB/Debian relationship
<pitti> right
<cjwatson> if that works best for you, that's fine. Conversely, are there Debian TC IRC meetings these days that we ought to observe, or should we just follow the mailing list?
<cjwatson> (which I do occasionally, but pretty infrequently)
<mdz> well, I'd at least like to say that I'm glad you're here, bdale, and look forward to having Debian participation in this forum
<bdale> just the mailing list.  one of the things Keybuk and I talked about is the notion that I can spot discussions on the TB list and try to get appropriate Debian folk to join meetings here... how that should work will be easier for me to comprehend once I've watched a couple myself
<mdz> bdale: has cjwatson briefed you on the basics of how the technical board works?
<bdale> mdz: right, thanks.  I'm also pleased to think we can make some goodness happen
<bdale> mdz: more or less, yes
<pitti> it makes sense to be in each other's meeting to ensure that we stay compatible on a large scale, like the units policy or large technical changes
<cjwatson> I think the operative bit is "brief", but yes
<bdale> pitti: right, there just aren't any "meetings" of the Debian TC except the BOF we try to hold at Debconf each year... it's an email-mostly and some private IRC chats kind of thing right now
<mdz> cjwatson: did we discuss whether bdale should be on the mailing list?
<cjwatson> we did, and I added him
<mdz> oh good
<cody-somerville> Hi
<Keybuk> cody-somerville: please don't interrupt the meeting
<pitti> ok, back to
<pitti> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meeting
<pitti> * kees to drive sun-java6 email thread and get resolution on responsibility
<pitti> there were two followups, but still no final resolution
<pitti> it seems to me that we manoeuvred ourselves into a pretty bad situation with this
<cjwatson> for bdale's context, that was the attempted removal of the non-free Sun Java 6 packages from Ubuntu in light of OpenJDK; however it turns out quite a lot of stuff still seems to need the Sun packages, and we've been trying to figure out how to get that moving effectively
<pitti> last thing I saw was that Neil wanted to get a list of non-main packages they rely on
<mdz> cjwatson: s/attempted/proposed/ ;-)
<mdz> I think we can put this aside for 9.10 and put it on the list of things to consider for 10.04
<cjwatson> the question from last meeting was essentially whether we ought to continue spending Ubuntu platform team resources on it, or conversely whether trying to move that out to our partner repository would just lead to the corporate services people asking us for help with it all the time
<pitti> but it seems to me that we'd need to extend the sun-java6 SRU policy at least for jaunty, and won't be able to drop it in karmic just yet
<cjwatson> we certainly need to put it aside for 9.10, but it would be rather nice to have an end in sight
<cjwatson> however, Neil said that he was soliciting migration plans
<pitti> so, should I ping Neil again about other packages they rely on, and some plan how to get rid of it eventually?
<cjwatson> so perhaps the right answer is just to bring this up again at UDS for a status check?
<mdz> cjwatson: yes, I think it should be further explored as a foundations task for 10.04
<cjwatson> I've made a note of that
<mdz> move on?
<cjwatson> fine by me
<pitti> * cjwatson to drive DMB email thread to conclusion
<pitti> that happened today, and voting is underway
<cjwatson> we can complete the vote quickly here if people are up-to-date on mail?
<pitti> so for the purposes of "actions from previous meeting" this is done, and we'll have a full agenda topic about this, too
<pitti> I just sent my +1 via mail
<cjwatson> ok, let's proceed rather than block on that then, and I'll just exhort people (hypocritically) to get through that mail thread quickly
<pitti> summary, cjwatson proposed to establish a minimal standard of adding new uploaders to teams:
<cjwatson> well, dholbach did
<pitti> documentation, declaring intent, discussion with applicant, public announcement
<pitti> but I think it's better if everyone reads the entire mail first
<pitti> everyone ok to finish this by mail?
<pitti> (to avoid voting without enough context)
 * pitti assumes "yes"
<pitti> * Keybuk to finalize unit policy and email to TB for vote
 * mdz falls over laughing at "up-to-date on mail"
<Keybuk> pitti: continue to defer until I'm not getting 2,000-3,000 mails from LP a second in my INBOX
 * bdale ^5's mdz
<pitti> Keybuk: noted
<pitti> [ACTION] Keybuk to finalize unit policy and email to TB for vote
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Keybuk to finalize unit policy and email to TB for vote
<pitti> * cjwatson to drive vote on Archive Reorg rights for ubuntu-desktop and mythbuntu in email
<cjwatson> this is blocked on the developer membership thing
<pitti> that depends on the former vote, right?
<pitti> so, just pushing forward
<pitti> [ACTION] cjwatson to drive vote on Archive Reorg rights for ubuntu-desktop and mythbuntu in email
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to drive vote on Archive Reorg rights for ubuntu-desktop and mythbuntu in email
<pitti> [TOPIC] Discuss Developer membership board
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss Developer membership board
<pitti> it seems to me that the email thread is sufficient for this, or does anyone still need to discuss something here?
<cjwatson> is there any more here beyond the mail thread?
<pitti> :)
<cjwatson> let's time out and move on
<pitti> so, remaining thing here is for everyone to respond and vote
<mdz> I've read the thread now
<pitti> [TOPIC] Archive reorg
<MootBot> New Topic:  Archive reorg
<mdz> and am +1 on the four points
<cjwatson> that's 4/6, I'll allow until tomorrow for comments and then document it
<cjwatson> nothing on archive reorg beyond this DMB thread. I blame beta.
<pitti> just pushing forward then, next time we should have the vote settled
<pitti> cjwatson: btw, do you know if there's a proper kubuntu uploaders team now?
<pitti> or should I ping Riddell to create a separate one from the "contributors/interested folks"?
<cjwatson> pitti: I've been talking with Riddell and co about that on and off, and it came up at the last Kubuntu meeting; I believe they were going to create a new team
<pitti> good
<pitti> [TOPIC] Naming of new packages
<MootBot> New Topic:  Naming of new packages
<cjwatson> they did say clearly that ~kubuntu-ninjas wasn't appropriate
<pitti> mdz?
<cjwatson> I think they were just trying to sort out who would run the team, as ~kubuntu-council is not entirely technical
<cjwatson> oh, hey, ~kubuntu-dev exists now
<Riddell> we have made ~kubuntu-dev
<mdz> I was thinking recently, that we've had a couple of situations where a package has entered the archive and then we've needed to change the name
<mdz> the most recent example is software-center (nee software-store, nee something else)
<cjwatson> Riddell: expect mail about that tomorrow, then
<Riddell> and kubuntu council is happy for it  to be self appointing for the moment
<pitti> Riddell: thanks; that team looks fine
<mdz> and so was wondering if we ought to add a naming check for new packages
<mdz> not only to ensure that it's policy compliant (which I assume we already do), but that it can be considered reasonably final
<pitti> mdz: archive admins have been known to reject packages with overly general names
<pitti> i. e. for policy compliance
<mdz> I'm thinking mainly about packages which originate in Ubuntu which are being named "upstream" at the same time
<pitti> this obviously doesn't cover the more politically-sensitive bits like store vs. center
<cjwatson> software-store is a particularly difficult example there; I understand that the objections did not really arise until users saw it in the archive, and that it was then appealed and sabdfl decided on the name change
<Keybuk> doesn't that then become simply a policy for naming of Ubuntu upstream projects?
<mdz> I'm not expecting archive admins to judge whether a name is good or correct, only to check that it is "final"
<mdz> Keybuk: no, it is a process step to ask the relevant people to confirm the status of the name
<cjwatson> I think that would actually have been counterproductive here
<mdz> the "image store" (aka appliance store) is potentially in a similar situation
<pitti> mdz: in this particular case we should probably have decided the name at UDS already
<cjwatson> the DX team were pretty clear that software-store was the final name
<Keybuk> indeed, in the software-centre case, the problem was that the developers were not going to change the name
<cjwatson> it was only changed after community objections
<Keybuk> it was sabdfl who intervened to change it
<pitti> s/decided/discussed/, I meant
<mdz> I acknowledge that that was a poor choice of example and it has confused my point
<sabdfl> based on a request from mdke, representing those who objected
 * cjwatson deletes his follow-up comment then :)
<mdz> please forget about software-center for the moment
<Keybuk> I'm concerned that naming your project is, apparently, the hardest part of developing it
<mdz> I just want to set the expectation that a certain amount of due diligence is done with regard to naming before a new package goes into the archive
<mdz> because renaming is expensive
<Keybuk> and if we block any new package on having its name finalised, we're *never* going to get new packages into the archive
<Keybuk> landing changes late because the name wasn't finalised/signed off is worse than having to rename
<Keybuk> imo
<pitti> TBH I didn't see it happen often enough to consider it a major concern
<cjwatson> so I'm pretty sure we don't need to do this for packages that aren't really significantly user-visible
<bdale> sounds like a corner case to me
<cjwatson> I remember it being an issue for ubiquity (nee espresso, nee ubuntu-express)
<sabdfl> it was a bad outcome to have to rename - i left it up to mvo as to whether that should be deferred till lucid, but his pref was just to take the hit now
<sabdfl> it's an unusual situation
<mdz> ok, I'll withdraw for now, and come back with a list of packages which were renamed and how much developer effort was wasted :-)
<Keybuk> computer system cruft remover janitor sprints to mind too ;)
 * cjwatson notes that ubiquity's package metadata still has upgrade handling for espresso, because I'm anal that way
<mdz> pitti: we can move on
<pitti> TOPIC] Naming of software-center
<Keybuk> mdz: only if you can prove that the developer effort would not have been wasted if they couldn't have got the package in the archive because the name wasn't finalised
<cjwatson> mdz: I think this is an interesting point, don't take my comments as rejection of it
<pitti> requested by mdz, not sure whether it's still relevant
<cjwatson> I'm not at all sure of the proper handling though
<mdz> I put this forward as there was email on the TB list and I didn't see a response
<pitti> it's hard to measure how "final" a package name is, indeed
<mdz> if it's over, then ignore me
<cjwatson> mdz: I think that was overtaken by events
<cjwatson> I will respond to the requestor saying so
<cjwatson> (just for completeness)
<pitti> I didn't see objections against s-center
<cjwatson> the mail was an objection against software-store, IIRC
<mdz> Keybuk: if you are claiming that progress is severely hindered by not getting software into the archive, you haven't a leg to stand on :-P
<pitti> cjwatson: right
<Keybuk> mdz: on the contrary, I think legs or no, I have a lot of experience to sit on :-P
<pitti> [TOPIC] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodySomerville/CoreDeveloperApplication
<MootBot> New Topic:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodySomerville/CoreDeveloperApplication
<pitti> I'm not sure on protocol here
<Keybuk> pitti: that is for the DMB not the T
<Keybuk> TB
<pitti> should we do this via mail on DMB, or here on IRC?
<mdz> I asked pitti to add t his
<mdz> because there was an email sent to d-m-b on 10 September and it looks like nobody has responded
<Keybuk> the DMB is held up in discussions about policy
<mdz> it still needs a response
<mdz> we shouldn't leave applications hanging without explanation
<mdz> can someone who knows more about what's going on with DMB than I do, respond to the email?
<pitti> it requires a majority from dmb@ now?
<mdz> pitti: I don't know how to answer that question
<cjwatson> was the most recent consensus to use mail for this, or to schedule a meeting with the applicant? honestly, I've lost track
<Keybuk> we have achieved no consensus
<cjwatson> I think we should schedule an IRC meeting since that will force us to move it forward
<cjwatson> in this instance
<Keybuk> at least, dholbach has undone the previous consensus :)
<cjwatson> how about Thursday 1500 UTC
<pitti> WFM
<mdz> this week is impossible for me in at any time which would be acceptable in the US
<mdz> but don't block on me
<Keybuk> cjwatson: if there's going to be an IRC meeting, I would prefer it *not* to be the same week as the TB meeting
<Keybuk> why don't we use the TB slot in alternate weeks to the TB?
<cjwatson> Keybuk: in this particular case I'm suggesting a one-off rather than recurring, just to move things forward
<cjwatson> but I have no problem using the alternate TB slot
<pitti> [ACTION] pitti to announce DMB meeting next Tuesday 1400 on the DMB ML
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to announce DMB meeting next Tuesday 1400 on the DMB ML
<pitti> ok?
<cjwatson> doit
<mdz> pitti: someone needs an action to reply to the email
<Keybuk> though the DMB ML only goes to the DMB :)  UD may be more appropriate
<cjwatson> I'll reply to Cody
<mdz> cjwatson: thank you
<pitti> mdz: that's blocked on us actually establishing what to do about DMB votes, though?
<pitti> [TOPIC] Check up on community bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Check up on community bugs
<pitti> none
<cjwatson> pitti: I don't know of any remaining blockage there
<pitti> cjwatson: isn't that why we just settled for a DMB meeting next week, to figure this out?
<pitti> [TOPIC] Select a chair for the next meeting
<cjwatson> pitti: we should talk with Cody at that point; he has been kept waiting too long. If we need to figure something else out, we can do that as well.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Select a chair for the next meeting
<Keybuk> my turn next I think
<pitti> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<pitti> 10 sec timeout
<pitti> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:47.
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<mdz> thanks, pitti
<pitti> I'll summarize the meeting and update the wiki reports
<pitti> thanks for bearing with me
<cjwatson> this meeting felt ... kind of bureaucratic to me. Let's try to have more interesting substance next time :)
<sabdfl> thanks all
<zul> helo
<kees> argh, off-by-one error with alarm clock.
<kirkland> o/
<ttx> o/
<nijaba> o/
<alexm> o/
<mdz> \o
<mdz> (I'm right handed)
<Daviey> \o
<soren> o/
<mdz> mathiaz: zul: smoser: ping
<smoser> o/
<zul> here
<mathiaz>  /o\
 * soren is also right handed, but has no backslash on this keyboard(!)
<zul> *hmmph* danish keyboards
<zul> ;)
<ttx> soren: good thing you are not working on windows, then
<soren> American keyboards, actually.
<alexm> mdz: it depends if o is looking at you or you're o looking at the screen ;)
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mdz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<mdz> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090929
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090929
<mdz> ACTION: niemeyer to send mathiaz and nurmi a mail with details on how to test the image-store-proxy integration with fakestoreapi.py.
<mathiaz> mdz: done
<mdz> ACTION: ttx and smoser to review the automation of the image publication process.
<mathiaz> mdz: haven't had time to conduct testing though
<mdz> mathiaz: understood
<mdz> ttx, smoser, status of the image publishing automation?
<ttx> mdz: that was done prior to beta, and it showed quite a few things that still need manual interaction
<ttx> especially ec2 publication
<smoser> regarding review of automation, i'm working on that now.  the NamingConvention (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UEC/Images/NamingConvention) was part of that.
<mdz> smoser: is it on track to be sufficiently tested to be able to be used for RC?
<smoser> i think it can be.
<mdz> ok
<mdz> ACTION: smoser to open bugs to cover kernel/ramdisk GPL reqs and renaming
<smoser> i hope that by end of week we can have nightly builds being published.
<smoser>  - bug 444598 : renaming
<smoser>  - bug 444605 : gpl source
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444598 in vm-builder "rename uec kernel/ramdisk for automated downloading or easier doc" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444598
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444605 in vm-builder "make sure source is obtainable for uec kernel images" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444605
<mdz> smoser: great news, thanks
<mdz> (done then)
<mdz> ACTION: ttx to test UEC images + UEC kernel/ramdisk on karmic UEC
<ttx> mdz: done for beta release
<mdz> ACTION: ttx to see if some bugs assigned to soren need urgent reassignment
<ttx> mdz: most of those were eucalyptus-related. The others are vmbuidler ones that are not critical
<mdz> ttx: now that soren is back, it might be useful to review his bug list with him to make sure it's aligned with current tasking and release status
<mdz> ACTION: Daviey to setup a doodle poll and send the url to the ubuntu-server@ mailing list.
<Daviey> Ok, this was done - but the dates were suboptimal
<ttx> mdz: sure, we'll review it when we arrive at the "assigned bug list review" item of the meeting
<Daviey> soren mentioned that for many it wasn't a consistent week.
<ttx> or off-meeting.
<mdz> ttx: agreed
<soren> Daviey: That's not the problem.
<soren> Daviey: The problem is that the data we collect will only be good for three weeks.
<mdz> the action from last week is completed; if there is further discussion needed, please take it off-meeting or add to the end of the agenda
<smoser> that really stinks. doodle really needs time zone info.
<soren> ...because that's when some of us switch from DST to "regular time".
<mdz> [topic] Beta release postmortem
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beta release postmortem
<soren> One week later, other people switch.
<Daviey> oh sure i see that, but it's a good "idea", and we can take daylight savings adjustments into account.
<soren> Other people again don't switch at all.
<soren> Some may swithc in the opposite direction at other times.
<mdz> ttx: there was no name next to this, but I think you added it. how do you want to structure this discussion?
<ttx> just a few comments on how beta release went, plus opportunity for anyone to chime in
<ttx> Beta release went relatively ok, the main issue was lack of UEC testing capability
<soren> Daviey: We can discuss it under the "# Agree on next meeting date and time " item.
 * soren shuts up now
<ttx> which made it difficult to confirm the bugs that were found
<mdz> we also had a bit of a blind spot with regard to the UEC kernel and initramfs
<ttx> mdz: that's linked to it. With more testers, we would have uncovered it before
<ttx> I was busy validating UEC, so UEC image testing was delayed
<mdz> ttx: I think it's a separate issue. our test plan simply didn't cover this: it instructed the user to copy the host kernel instead
<ttx> another thing we need to adjust is the test plan, yes
<mdz> I'm not sure why that happened, or if it's been corrected
<ttx> we probably shouldn't validate UEC with a moving target UEC image
<ttx> there are tests for the UEC images and tests for the UEC install, those need to be separated
<mdz> we can do testing with the beta image now, and post-9.10 we can use the 9.10 image for smoke testing UEC
<kirkland> mdz: it hasn't been corrected; it looks to me like the instructions are still geared toward using the host kernel/initrd
<mdz> ttx: I believe they already are
<mdz> http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/System/CloudImages is for testing the images
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/System/CloudImages is for testing the images
<mdz> http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/System/Eucalyptus is for testing UEC
<mdz> [action] smoser to update CloudImages test case to use the UEC and EC2 kernel+initramfs rather than the host's
<kirkland> specifically: http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/ServerEConfig
<mdz> ttx: what do we need to do to solve the UEC testing bottleneck?
<mdz> is anyone still waiting on hardware?
<ttx> mdz: please action me on reviewing tests and making sure they are aligned
<kirkland> ....  euca-bundle-image -i /boot/vmlinuz-$(uname -r) --kernel true ...
<mdz> [action] ttx to review test plans and ensure they are aligned with 9.10
<ttx> mdz: we need at least two test setups in different timezones
<Moot2> LINK received:  http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/System/Eucalyptus is for testing UEC
<mdz> hmm, I think mootbot is lagging
<ttx> (that can reliably run UEC instances)
<kirkland> ttx: that's you and me, right?
<ttx> kirkland: now, yes.
<kirkland> ttx: oh "reliably"
<mdz> kirkland has also ordered some additional hardware
 * kirkland puts his hand down
<kirkland> mdz: this hardware arrives tomorrow
<mdz> kirkland: what do we need to do to fix the "reliably"?
<kirkland> mdz: :-)  that was just a smartarse comment
<ttx> kirkland: you cna run UEC instances alright, now ?
<mdz> is this problem solved now that kirkland and ttx have spare hardware?
<kirkland> ttx: i'm reinstalling with today's iso's now
<Moot2> ACTION received:  smoser to update CloudImages test case to use the UEC and EC2 kernel+initramfs rather than the host's
<kirkland> mdz: we have cloud testing setups now in the middle of France, and the middle of Tejas
<Moot2> ACTION received:  ttx to review test plans and ensure they are aligned with 9.10
<ttx> mdz: when kirkland says that he can run UEC images alright, I think we are covered
<ttx> the more testers the better, obviously
<mdz> [action] kirkland to confirm that his test rig is fully operational
<smoser> verify, the url for above action is http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/ServerEConfig
<smoser> right ?
<kirkland> mdz: sure, will do that today
<Moot2> ACTION received:  kirkland to confirm that his test rig is fully operational
<mdz> I believe it was also suggested that mathiaz could gain access to some cert hardware for this purpose
<mathiaz> mdz: there isn't so much spare hardware in the cert lab
<mdz> I've also thought about setting up an NC on my host while running the CLC/SC/CC/Walrus inside of KVM
<kirkland> mdz: when can we expect Canonical IS to have an Ubuntu 9.10-based cloud?
<mathiaz> mdz: and with release around the corner, most of the hardware is used on a daily basis
<mdz> kirkland: that's RT #35519
<mdz> I haven't checked it recently
<mdz> mathiaz: ok
<kirkland> mdz: okay, but sometime shortly after GA, roughly?
<mdz> I should be able to arrange a bit of extra hardware for the release sprint but that will only help for the very final validation step
<mdz> kirkland: they started on it as soon as 1.6 landed, so yes, they're tracking toward having something in place soonish
<kirkland> mdz: once we have that, i would think *that* would be the proper place for *image* verification
<kirkland> mdz: with our local, distributed setups being the right place for actual cloud development and testing
<mdz> ok, any other comments on beta, things we should fix before the next milestone?
<mdz> kirkland: agreed
<mdz> [topic] RC preparation
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC preparation
<mdz> # Further improvements to release process
<mdz> # Sweeping server bugs for release-critical and regression bugs
<mdz> # Staying on top of beta bugs: Triage days
<mdz> re: release process, there were a few of these outstanding from alpha 6 which I haven't checked into since beta, if we could quickly review them
<mdz>  * Automate publishing of AMIs to EC2 [smoser]: DEFERRED
<mdz>  * Automate updating ec2-version-query [soren]: PENDING on previous item
<mdz>  * Publish ec2-version-query in a more appropriate place [soren]:
<mdz>    Thought to be in slangasek hands now, needs to be confirmed
<mdz> the first item I think we covered, it's still WIP
<mdz> soren, smoser, who is looking after ec2-version-query?
<soren> I haven't looked at it since I got back.
<smoser> i had kind of just left that off to soren, but when thinking of the naming convention stuff last night, i realized that s3 might be a good place to store this
<soren> Should I?
<mdz> smoser: do you have the necessary access to finish that off, or do you need soren?
<smoser> i can probably find my way through it, but will likely need some help from soren along the way
 * soren doesn't think he has special access for any of this
<smoser> mostly, at the moment ican't write to ~soren on people.canonical.com so i'm sol
<soren> smoser: I'm happy to provide any information you may need.
<mdz> smoser: ok, let's consider it your task then, and you can ask for help as you need it
<mdz>  * mathiaz to set up OpenLDAP/sssd test infra on EC2 - INPROGRESS
<soren> Well, the first step of this is to move it /away/ from there anyway.
<smoser> fair enough
<mathiaz> mdz: in progress.
<mdz> [action] mathiaz to set up OpenLDAP/sssd test infra on EC2
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to set up OpenLDAP/sssd test infra on EC2
<mdz> mathiaz to get help from Michael Vogt on bug 194140 - PENDING
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 194140 in cyrus-sasl2 "Dependency cycle prevents upgrade of libsasl2-2" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194140
<mdz> mvo: ^^
<mdz> kirkland to adapt help.ubuntu.com VM recipe(s?) to use libvirt - TODO
<kirkland> mdz: haven't started that one
<kirkland> mdz: though I'm signed up for an OpenWeek session on the topic
<mdz> [action] kirkland to adapt help.ubuntu.com VM recipe(s?) to use libvirt
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to adapt help.ubuntu.com VM recipe(s?) to use libvirt
<kirkland> mdz: i'll update that documentation in prep for the OpenWeek session
<mdz> I think the others are completed
<mdz> ttx: Sweeping server bugs for release-critical and regression bugs?
<ttx> mdz: so we need to get a more accurate picture of release-relevant bugs in packages others than eucalyptus
<ttx> like you mentioned, it's strange that we don't have any regression bug so far
<mdz> as I mentioned in email to some of you, it's important to tag regression bugs as such when you find them
<kirkland> ttx: some qemu-kvm bugs have started trickling in
<mdz> use the tag regression-potential
<kirkland> ttx: i haven't had much time to look at them
<mvo> mdz: uh, I'm very sorry, I will look at it tomorrow :/
<mdz> further documentation on regressions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RegressionTracking
<ttx> everyone should help, obviously, but we need people to cover the packages that will slip in the holes
<kirkland> ttx: libvirt needs a big hug; there are a ton of untriaged bugs against that very important package
<mdz> mvo: no worries, thank you
<ttx> zul and mathiaz should coordinate the effort
<mdz> kirkland: bug day?
<zul> ack
<kirkland> mdz: not yet scheduled; but would be a good thing
<mdz> ttx: is there an established plan for this that we can put into motion, or do we need to decide how it will work?
<mathiaz> ttx: right - zul could you focus on the bugs that are in New,Undecided?
<ttx> mdz: we need to decide
<mathiaz> zul: I'll look at the Confirmed, Triagged
<zul> mathiaz: okies
<mdz> looks like mathiaz and zul have decided on a basic plan of action
<mdz> zul,mathiaz: this is across all server team packages, right?
<zul> mdz: correct
<mathiaz> My proposal is that zul focuses on triagging/confirming bugs, while I'll have look at the triagged/confirmed for release critical things
<ttx> mdz: we should still ahve a way for others to participate, like "hey, I'll look at tomcat6 and dnsmasq"
<mathiaz> mdz: yes
<mdz> zul,mathiaz: do you think it would be helpful to organize a server bug day on this?
<ttx> since I usually triage this package anyway
<mdz> ttx: a bug day would provide a framework for participation
<zul> mdz: its based on this list https://bugs..launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+packagebugs
<kirkland> mdz: what's the timeframe for such a bug day?
<kirkland> mdz: we'd need to do it before RC, right?
<mdz> kirkland: they happen all the time, someone just needs to get in touch with the QA team
<kirkland> mdz: right, i'm just curious... before or after RC?
<mdz> kirkland: ASAP, definitely before
<mathiaz> zul: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/dailynewbugs.ubuntu-server.mon.html
<kirkland> mdz: okay, right
<mathiaz> zul: ^^ could you focus on the list of bugs above?
<mdz> kirkland: RC is meant to be a dry run of the final bits; we should be ready to release at that point
<zul> mathiaz: i have as well
<mdz> mathiaz: could you take the action to ask about a bug day?
<mathiaz> mdz: sure
<mdz> [action] mathiaz to work with the QA team on a server bug day for Karmic
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to work with the QA team on a server bug day for Karmic
<mdz> ttx: Staying on top of beta bugs: Triage days
<mdz> is this something to do in addition to the bug day?
<ttx> yes.
<ttx> The idea is that server is only tested very late in the release process
<ttx> so we need to stay on top of new bugs filed against server apckages
<mdz> what action is needed to get started on this?
<kirkland> mdz: mathiaz: would have to be Monday or Tuesday of next week
<ttx> to quickly identify regressions/ critical bugs
<mdz> [action] mdz to follow up with marjo regarding general QA support in Karmic
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to follow up with marjo regarding general QA support in Karmic
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Bug%20Triager%20resources
<mdz> (note to myself)
<ttx> describes bug lists that can be used
<ttx> to make sure New,Undecided bugs are at least prioritized
<ttx> ten we can assign a team member to each day
<ttx> then...
<ttx> mathiaz: you have been setting up the bug lists, any comment ?
<mdz> mathiaz: how can I help?
<mathiaz> ttx: not really - they're just ready for general usage
<mathiaz> now it's a matter of getting people to use them
<mathiaz> the goal is to have the list emptied every day
<mathiaz> there is a backlog though
<mdz> mathiaz: I'll mention this to marjo as well and see if he can provide any help
<mathiaz> once the backlog is dealt with, it should be around 10/12 days a bug
<mathiaz> hm bug <-> day
<mdz> we need to move on to status
<mdz> [topic] #
<mdz> Eucalyptus status, including review of open issues (kirkland, ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<kirkland> there is an external job posting for an Ubuntu Server QA Engineer
<mdz> [topic]  Eucalyptus status, including review of open issues (kirkland, ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:   Eucalyptus status, including review of open issues (kirkland, ttx)
<kirkland> mdz: uploaded a new eucalyptus yesterday
<mdz> kirkland: yes, but we can't rely on much help there for 9.10 due to the timeframe involved
<kirkland> mdz: merge of upstream code, closes ~12 bugs
<ttx> I tested it, it's working correctly
<ttx> I filed a series of bugs though
<mdz> how about the installation+autoregistration?
<kirkland> mdz: ah, okay; i thought we were disucssing bug triage in the long term, rather than the 9.10 timeframe
<ttx> autoregistration works, but by accident
<mdz> kirkland: both, but more urgently 9.10
<ttx> we need to fix a few bugs to make it work by design
<kirkland> i had just started the new ISO install when this meeting started
<mdz> ttx: are those bugs assigned and targeted for Karmic?
<kirkland> mdz: my upgrade testing from the previous package went very well
<ttx> assigned - yes, targeted to karmic, i'll check and fix if needed
<kirkland> mdz: ttx: nurmi arrives in Austin at 11pm tonight; we're spending the following two days hardening UEC
<mdz> ttx: please mention the bug numbers here for tracking purposes
<kirkland> ttx: if you can verify our work in your locale, that would be great
<mdz> kirkland: excellent
<kirkland> ttx: s/verify/test/
<ttx> bug 444352 could use someone to reproduce it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444352 in eucalyptus "DB deadlock on reboot prevents EMI from being started" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444352
<kirkland> i propose at this point that we cherry pick individual commits from upstream eucalyptus to solve bugs
<kirkland> ie, i propose that we do no more wholesale merges
<ttx> bug 443325 and bug 444504 are the ones that make autoregistration work, once combined
<kirkland> for karmic
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/443325/+text)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444504 in eucalyptus "Autoregistration is always attempted, whatever the post-start scripts return" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444504
<kirkland> ttx: when you say "once combined", you mean once both fixes are applied?
<mdz> ttx: ok, thanks
<mdz> anything else on eucalyptus?
<mdz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus
<ttx> nothing from me
<kirkland> mdz: not really from me
<mdz> kirkland: are we nearer to a resolution for bug 432154?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432154 in qemu-kvm "dynamic block device attach/detach not functional with karmic KVM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432154
<ttx> I'm writing some blogposts about running UEC, they are getting good press coverage
<kirkland> mdz: delayed that one until nurmi arrives
<mdz> kees: any news on  bug 436407?
<kirkland> mdz: that will be one of our top priorities
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436407 in eucalyptus/1.6 "if apache2 is using worker MPM, rampart causing periodic CC segfaults" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436407
<mdz> kees: er, 436977
<mdz> bug 436977
<ubottu> Bug 436977 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/436977 is private
<mdz> kirkland: ok, is that on the agenda that you sent me?
<kirkland> mdz: absolutely
<kirkland> mdz: i'll like to review that agenda with you briefly today
<mdz> kirkland: ok, I'll hopefully be able to review that today
<mdz> [topic] UEC images, including review of active bugs (smoser)
<MootBot> New Topic:  UEC images, including review of active bugs (smoser)
<mdz> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=uec-images
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=uec-images
<mdz> smoser: are you able to test these yourself in UEC?
<mdz> there seems to still be an MIR pending
<smoser> no. not at the moment.
<smoser> yeah, the MIR is assigned to zul. not pointing fingers, just saying. i think he may know more.
<smoser> i do have hardware for uec that i'd like to get up and running to help test with
<smoser> its just time.
<mdz> smoser: bug 444605 looks like it needs to be fixed for 9.10
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444605 in vm-builder "make sure source is obtainable for uec kernel images" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444605
<smoser> yes.
<smoser> of the bugs listed there, those that will surely be fixed are:
<smoser> bug 444605
<smoser> bug 444598
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444598 in vm-builder "rename uec kernel/ramdisk for automated downloading or easier doc" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444598
<mdz> smoser: I expect cjwatson would have good input on 444605, I suggest asking him about it
<smoser> at this point i expect to fix bug 440757 also.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440757 in vm-builder "ec2-images have ubuntu.canonical.com in /etc/hosts" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440757
<smoser> i will copy cjwatson and pester him for input
<mdz> smoser: anything on the "surely be fixed" list should be targeted for karmic + milestoned to ubuntu-9.10; please update LP accordingly
<smoser> will do that now.
<mdz> [action] smoser to follow up with mdz regarding UEC image testing capability
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smoser to follow up with mdz regarding UEC image testing capability
<mdz> [topic] EC2 AMIs, including review of active bugs (smoser)
<MootBot> New Topic:  EC2 AMIs, including review of active bugs (smoser)
<mdz> [link] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images
<mdz> only one High there, and it's the (same) MIR
<smoser> the plan-to-fix list is the same for ec2 as it is for uec.
<smoser> right.
<mdz> zul: is there anything blocking getting that MIR completed this week?
<zul> mdz: just fixing the testusite
<mdz> smoser: are you feeling confident about the UEC and EC2 kernels at this stage?
<mdz> [action] zul to fix m2crypto test suite and ensure that MIR is processed
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to fix m2crypto test suite and ensure that MIR is processed
<smoser> well, the ones we have and have been using surely seem solid (no issues have been raised)
<smoser> jjohansen has put up some others with tweaked configs (bug 428692)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428692 in ubuntu "ec2 kernel needs CONFIG_BLK_DEV_LOOP=y and other config changes" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428692
<mdz> smoser: until recently, as noted earlier, we weren't testing the exact bits in the UEC kernel+initramfs, so we might want to test more thoroughly there
<mdz> am I remembering correctly that the UEC image won't boot in plain KVM because it tries to contact the metadata service?
<smoser> that is correct, however, now there is a workaround
<smoser> you can pass kernel param ec2init=0
<mdz> kirkland: ttx: meanwhile, could you spare some UEC cycles to help test the images this week?
<smoser> or mount image and modify /etc/ec2-init/.... have to look it up
<mdz> smoser: oh, good to know
<ttx> mdz: sure.
<mdz> [topic] Virtual appliance - reference appliance (soren)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Virtual appliance - reference appliance (soren)
<kirkland> mdz: yes, i can do that
<kirkland> smoser: please PM me the url to the images you want tested
<mdz> ttx, kirkland, thank you
<ttx> smoser: same, ping me when you need one tested
<mdz> soren: we seem to be in a tight spot with regard to the reference appliance; there is some disagreement on the exact requirements
<soren> Oh, I didn't prepare for this.
<smoser> i will verify, but i think that output of nightly build should have valid kernel/ramdisk now
<soren> mdz: Yes, very much so.
<mdz> it is critical that we get this resolved ASAP
<soren> mdz: Yes. Who actually defines these requirements? Who is the authoritive person to ask?
<mdz> niemeyer: soren: what do we need to do in order to resolve this? we don't have time to discuss here but I think you need to hold a separate meeting about this
<mdz> soren: I'll do for the moment
<soren> mdz: I'm feeling slightly wiser than yesterday on the subject, but there's still a lot of open questions.
<soren> mdz: Ok.
<soren> We can do a meeting tomorrow, perhaps?
<mdz> [action] soren/niemeyer to arrange a meeting to discuss reference appliance plan of action
<MootBot> ACTION received:  soren/niemeyer to arrange a meeting to discuss reference appliance plan of action
<mdz> [topic] Image store status (niemeyer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Image store status (niemeyer)
<soren> I believe I'm free all day (until 16:00 UTC)
<mdz> niemeyer: how are we doing on this front?
<niemeyer> mdz: I will provide mathiaz with an updated version with a couple of very minor changes today
<niemeyer> mdz: I don't envision further changes at this point, except for any bug fixes we find necessary
<mathiaz> niemeyer: did you rework the gpg integration?
<mdz> niemeyer: is the version in karmic functional, to the point where it can be tested with the fake server?
<niemeyer> mathiaz: "rework" as in "add the --homedir" option?
<mathiaz> niemeyer: yeah :D
<niemeyer> mdz: Yes, absolutely.. I've been testing it here
<mathiaz> mdz: the next issue is - what should be put in the fakestore?
<niemeyer> mdz: Mathiaz and Daniel have instructions to run it
<mathiaz> niemeyer: do you have an appliance to put in the store?
<niemeyer> mathiaz: Ok, "rework" is a little strong then.. :)
<niemeyer> mathiaz: Yes, I've added the option with tests and all
<mathiaz> niemeyer: great to hear that
<mdz> mathiaz: are niemeyer's testing instructions in the testcases wiki yet?
<mathiaz> mdz: not that I know of
<mathiaz> mdz: I've got them in an email
<mdz> [action] mathiaz to document test plan for image store
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to document test plan for image store
<niemeyer> mathiaz: Yes, I haven an "appliance"
<niemeyer> mathiaz: I have an image I downloaded from the Eucalyptus web site
<mathiaz> mdz: and all this image-store testing depends on having a working UEC cloud
<niemeyer> mathiaz: Any image which works with Eucalyptus should be good for testing the image store proxy
<mathiaz> niemeyer: ok.
<mdz> mathiaz: maybe you could ask kirkland or ttx to run the test plan and correct as necessary
<kirkland> mdz: sure, i've edited it slightly almost every time I've run it
<mathiaz> mdz: sure. I'll keep in touch with dustin here.
<mdz> kirkland: after your sprint, will the new test rig be available? perhaps it could go back with mathiaz so we add an additional tester for karmic
<mdz> kirkland: I mean the image store test plan, which isn't in the wiki yet
<niemeyer> kirkland, mathiaz: Please ping me if you need any help with whatever
<kirkland> mdz: Estimated Delivery Date:	10/19/2009  :-(
<mdz> niemeyer: any other actions needed in the coming week?
<mdz> kirkland: oh, never mind
<kirkland> mdz: but i do have a 2-machine cluster already
<mdz> we're over time and need to wrap up
<niemeyer> mdz: As far as the image store proxy goes, I don't think so
<kirkland> mdz: we'll run with the 2 systems we have here now
<niemeyer> mdz: There's that other topic about the "Services" tab.. I don't know where to fit this
<mdz> niemeyer: let's take that off-meeting
<mdz> [topic] assigned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  assigned bugs
<niemeyer> mdz: Ok
<mdz> there are a bunch of importance-Undecided bugs on this list
<mdz> [topic] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<mdz> mostly assigned to zul, and one to soren
<mdz> [action] zul to triage his assigned bugs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to triage his assigned bugs
<zul> mdz: ill go through that list today
<mdz> the highest importance triaged bugs on that list are the vmbuilder ones, assigned to soren
<mdz> both targeted to karmic
<soren> I've got some VMBuilder time scheduled for tomorrow.
<soren> I expet to be able to cover it there.
<soren> expect, even.
<mdz> soren: glad to hear it, thanks
<mdz> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<mdz> I'm going to be out of the office next week, please contact ttx in my absence
<soren> Well, there's the meeting time thing, but that's an item of its own.
<soren> Right?
<mdz> soren: take it to email?
<soren> I tried. Noone answered.
<ttx> soren: I did ;)
<soren> ttx: orly?
<mdz> I don't see it in my inbox, but I'll follow up separately
<soren> Oh, to the original one?
<mdz> thanks, all
<soren> right, right.
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:05.
<Daviey> woot.
<bjf> Roll Call
 * ogasawara waves
 * pgraner waves o/
<smb> \o
 * apw drops in ... hot
 * cking \o/
<rafael_carreras> o/
 * rtg waves
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * lieb_ waves
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: (apw) Check up on drdb status in dkms package and kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: (apw) Check up on drdb status in dkms package and kernel
<bjf> apw, ??
<apw> ok seems that server is using a newer version in dkms
<apw> they recon we can drop it from the kernel, just need to formally ask them
<apw> on their email list ...
<apw> will get it sorted out
<apw> as of .33 it will be upstream anyhow
<bjf> [ACTION] apw to get it sorted out
<MootBot> ACTION received:  apw to get it sorted out
<apw> :)
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<bjf> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs
<ogasawara>  * Release Meeting Bugs (9 bugs) - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogasawara>  * RC Milestoned Bugs Beta (4 kernel bugs) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12698
<ogasawara>  * Release Targeted Bugs (17 bugs) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
<bjf> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<ogasawara> see https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-9.10
<pgraner> ogasawara: your RC script above ignores imx51 and dove bugs
<pgraner> ogasawara: RC Milestoned that is
<ogasawara> pgraner: yah, there's no way in launchpad to combine multiple packages into one link
<pgraner> ogasawara: thwarted by LP once again
<ogasawara> pgraner: I'll pull the links for the other packages for future meetings
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop (ogasawara)
<pgraner> ogasawara: thanks
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Nothing new to report, we can probably drop this from the agenda
<pgraner> bjf: ack that
<pgraner> bjf back up a sec
<bjf> [ACTION] bjf to drop this from agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bjf to drop this from agenda
<bjf> pgraner, go!
<pgraner> bjf: What is happening with the  Release Targeted Bugs (17 bugs)
<pgraner> bjf: I'm not seeing much movement
<pgraner> bjf: specifically the HIGH and above
<pgraner> bjf: they are on the list week over week
<pgraner> Anyone?^^^^
<bjf> if you have one of the bugs assigned to you, speak up
<apw> a lot of the bugs are being looked at one way or another
<apw> we were waiting on the kernel that rtg jut got in with 2.6.31.2 to do a retest
<apw> before heavy lifting them
<pgraner> apw: the expectation that is if they are targeted for release they will be fixed or some other action needs to be taken
<pgraner> apw: Kernel freeze is the 15th
<pgraner> apw: running out of time
<pgraner> apw: ok, so by next weeks meeting we should see many of them go bye bye?
<apw> pgraner, yes understood, smb perhaps we could do a list review first thing tomorrow
<ogasawara> pgraner: looks like 4/5 high ones are assigned, the 5th will be getting a fix via the next stable kernel
<smb> apw, ack
<pgraner> apw: sure lets plan on doing it in #ubuntu-kernel
<apw> and at least make sure they are being retested, and make sure they are assigned to the right place
<apw> pgraner, ok
<pgraner> bjf: Ok I'm done
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms (apw)
<apw> that one we can close, support for KMS is now in
<bjf> [ACTION] bjf to remove from agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bjf to remove from agenda
<apw> and on as we expect it to be in final.  bug fixing as normal
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
<rtg> bjf, deferred for now.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code (smb)
<smb> Is done. Should be marked as such if I did the right things.
<pgraner> bjf: drop from this meeting agenda
<bjf> [ACTION] bjf to drop from agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bjf to drop from agenda
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume (manjo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume (manjo)
<manjo> working on samsung nc10 resume issue workaround
<manjo> foundation team will need to put in a quirk
<pgraner> manjo: make sure that gets followed up and the bug closed pls
<manjo> pgraner, ack
<pgraner> manjo: thans
<pgraner> thanks even
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale/Marvell (amitk, bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale/Marvell (amitk, bjf)
<bjf> [LINK]  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.searchtext=linux-fsl-imx51&milestone=12698
<MootBot> LINK received:   https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.searchtext=linux-fsl-imx51&milestone=12698
<bjf> Marvell-dove seems to be in good shape, I'm working on the imx51 bugs.  I've looked at the RTC bug a bit,
<bjf> trying Amit's suggestion and not had any success. Am going to look into the FIC driver next.
<pgraner> rtg: hardware should be to you
<manjo> pgraner, quick update on that ... slangasek has put in the quirk
<rtg> bjf, I should be getting an imx51 today
<apw> how many bugs do we have outstanding for release? ofr arm ?
<bjf> rtg, lucky you
<pgraner> rtg: we need to jump on these bugs and try and squash so mobile can keep working
<rtg> pgraner, jump and squash :)
<apw> sounds like a cheesy song title
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Karmic Kernel Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Karmic Kernel Status
<rtg> bjf, I think ec2 is looking OK.
<bjf> rtg, want to take that?
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
<apw> we just uploaded new master kernel with 2.6.31.2 stable updates
<rtg> horked in mammoth stable update yesterday
<apw> the last of the stable updates before release
<apw> (most likely)
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others
<smb> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.79 (security)
<smb> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.61 (updates)
<smb> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.41 (updates)
<smb> * Jaunty    2.6.28-15.52 (updates)
<smb> \o/ no proposed kernels pending
<pgraner> testing testing is this mic on?
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<ogasawara>  * Current regression stats:
<ogasawara>   * 39 regression-potential https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-potential
<ogasawara>   * 41 regression-release https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-release
<ogasawara>   * 10 regression-update https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-update
<apw> pgraner, reading you 20/20
<ogasawara>   * 0 regression-proposed https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-proposed
<ogasawara> Going forward in future meetings I'll also start providing a delta from the previous week so we can measure any trends.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Last week's stats can be seen at http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20090929.html
<ogasawara> Approximately 20% (54 bugs) were tackled.
<ogasawara> Unfortunately there was no major community involvement this time around.
<ogasawara> but we are getting hits from interested community members
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<bjf> pgraner, anything?
<pgraner>  
<bjf> going, once
<bjf> going, twice
<bjf> gone!
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:19.
<pgraner> ogasawara: what about all the bugs JFo did on Global Jam?
<apw> bjf, thanks
<cking> is that a record?
<smb> bjf, thanks
<lieb_> tnx bjf
<smb> cking, Feels like
<pgraner> I got a bad lag
<ogasawara> pgraner: indeed, that's were a lot of our non bug day contributions are coming from
<cking> I'm still 5 mins behind
<rtg> pgraner, its killing me today. there must be some widespread carnage
<pgraner> ogasawara: Ok so you don't consider Global Jam in with bug day
<ogasawara> pgraner:  I considered it separate
<pgraner> It only updates when I send somethng
<pgraner> then I get a big burst of incoming text
<pgraner> ogasawara: Ok thanks
<seiflotfy> hey guys
<seiflotfy> is the membership meeting over?
<seiflotfy> ah still 2 hours
 * twright waiting for ubuntu membership meeting
 * forumsmatthew is too.
<forumsmatthew> Greetings, everyone!
<twright> greetings
 * rafael_carreras too
<twright> hi rafael_carreras :-)
<joaopinto> hi
<rafael_carreras> hi twright
<twright> hi everyone
<jarlen> hey there
<popey> o/
 * twright would not have remembered if not for evolution :-)
 * popey pokes Seveas 
<seiflotfy> hi guys
<seiflotfy> :)
<stgraber> hello, I'm currently at a customer, I may not be able to attend at least part of the meeting
<popey> ok, lets move quick then! :)
<popey> who's up first?
<seiflotfy> uhm
<seiflotfy> me?
<seiflotfy> :)
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<popey> hmm, we still have
<forumsmatthew> The first person listed, Sarvatt, is already a member. We can move to the next person.
<popey> Sarvatt and pgquiles
<forumsmatthew> see his provile
<forumsmatthew> profile
<popey> pgquiles is being dealt with by Daniel for MOTU
<twright> I don't think jeansch is in the chanel
<seiflotfy> o hshit forgot to list myslef
<seiflotfy> can i stil ldo that
<forumsmatthew> put it at the end and we'll see if we have time
<popey> ok twright you're up!
<twright> great
<popey> At this point we like people to have a few lines about themselves ready to paste into the channel
<twright> ok
<popey> everyone else waiting, can you have yours ready
<twright> Just got the stuff from the wiki
<twright> I have installed Ubuntu at least 100 times over the past 3 years, on just about every PC in my house and others whilst helping other to use it in person, online and even in at concerts and in newsagents (don't ask!). At the same time I have created mockups and graphics for several Ubuntu release cycles and OpenOffice.org and consistently ran and reported/helped with bugs on development releases (Karmic is my main system at the moment) but I still wan
<twright> t to become more involved in the project and thus am looking to become a Ubuntu member, blog more tips and tutorials and help out anywhere I can.
<twright> not to long I hope
<popey> there are some links on your wiki page to artwork pages..
<twright> yes... mainly those I created
<popey> you created some artwork?
<twright> the pages, not the artwork
<popey> ok
<twright> I have done a lot of mockups though
<popey> do you have anyone here to cheer for you?
<twright> sorry, no
<popey> ok
<twright> although there is quite a lot of positive feedback on the wiki pages
<popey> I'm going to vote -0 for now on the basis that I'd like to see a more sustained contribution and some feedback from other members on your wiki page.
<forumsmatthew> I don't see any testimonials on your wiki page
<twright> e.g. 'Wow, I love this. I think it is so simple. yet so amazing. It's inspired me, I wish that 8.10 will looks like this. It would be a great achievement.'
<popey> I would recommend that you continue contributing and come back to us in ~3 months..
<forumsmatthew> popey beat me to it
<twright> right, thank you
<forumsmatthew> -0, but hopeful for next time
<popey> stgraber?
<popey> i agree forumsmatthew, we need more young people singing Ubuntu from the rooftops!
<stgraber> I'd like to see more evidence of contribution as well. +0
<popey> great, keep up the good work twright !
<twright> thank you
<popey> joaopinto.. you're up!
<joaopinto> Hello all
<joaopinto> I am FOSS developer and Linux user since 1999, for details check my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JoaoPinto
<joaopinto> I am an Ubuntu user since 2006, with a significant intial participation on support, irc and forums
<joaopinto> Later I have developed interested for debian packaging, my main work is now on the non official projects getdeb & playdeb
<joaopinto> I am also a regular tester and bug reporter.
<joaopinto> and that's all :)
<popey> You package for getdeb?
<forumsmatthew> I think he started it, didn't he?
<joaopinto> yes, I am the project founder
 * popey bows down
<popey> nice testimonial from Tiago!
 * seiflotfy is star struck by joaopinto
<popey> seiflotfy: pssst.. me too ;)
<joaopinto> :)
<forumsmatthew> I've been aware of your contributions for a long time, going back to the start of getdeb and stuff
<popey> ok, that's an easy +1 from me. It's clear to see a sustained and helpful contribution to the community. I know I've used getdeb before personally. I appreciate the work you do
<forumsmatthew> +1
<stgraber> +1
<popey> wheee!
<joaopinto> Thanks :))
<popey> added you to ~ubuntumembers, welcome!
<hggdh> way to go, joapinto! and no need for cheering ;-)
<popey> oh, you had people here to cheer!?
<joaopinto> eheh, thank you all :)
<popey> who?
 * hggdh was
<hggdh> or is ;-)
<popey> excellent, thanks for coming hggdh
<jarlen> I'm not here to cheer, but if he started getdeb, I'd like to, anyway :)
<popey> :)
<popey> okay, next up is rafael_carreras
<rafael_carreras> that's right
<rafael_carreras> Hello, I'm Catalan LoCo Team Contact. I founded it back in 2006.
<rafael_carreras> I've been KDE translator for several years
<rafael_carreras> I began using GNU/Linux with a Mandrake in 1999 and I remained quite attached to it until Ubuntu Warty came. I have been running the GLUG Caliu (CAtalan GNU/LInux Users) since 2001 as its Secretary. I organize the Software Freedom Day in Barcelona every year since 2005.
<popey> What do you guys do for SFD typically?
<rafael_carreras> talk to people in the street
<rafael_carreras> in the center of  Barcelona
<popey> oh excellent, thats fun :)
<alexm> popey: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexm/collections/72157602674952585/ has some sets
<rafael_carreras> but this year we did a more serious event
<rafael_carreras> speeches and all in a nice place
<rafael_carreras> quite good attendance
<popey> did you get many attendees?
<forumsmatthew> I was about 90% ready to give an enthusiastic +1, then I saw this: http://rcarreras.caliu.cat/2006/11/07/la-meva-batleth/ . Now, I'm sure...
<rafael_carreras> yes, about 50 people, i'd say
<forumsmatthew> good testimonials, sustained presence, and a batleth
<rafael_carreras> forumsmatthew: :)
<alexm> forumsmatthew: qapla!
<popey> http://www.flickr.com/photos/siscogarcia/3522814910/ cute T-shirts :)
<popey> well, I'm impressed with the sustained effort, +1 from me!
<rafael_carreras> good dessigners on our LoCo
<popey> great idea doing children-sizeed t-shirts
<stgraber> +1 from me too
<alexm> popey: catalan loco t-shirts http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexm/3978203588/
<popey> i need to get some of those for my kids :)
<popey> they are awesome!
<forumsmatthew> agreed
<arualavi> my daughter got one and love it
<popey> ok, thats 3 +1's you're a member! Keep up the fantastic work!
<alexm> popey: http://www.cafepress.co.uk/ubuntu_cat
<popey> I look forward to seeing karmic photos
<rafael_carreras> thaks a lot!
<rafael_carreras> popey: you'll see
<tsdgeos> \o/
<stgraber> heading back to the office now, sorry. I'll be back in 20 min or so. If we still have quorum without me, I'd like to say a huge +1 to seiflotfy for his work (met him at UDS-Barcelona, well, rather Zurich in fact) :)
<alexm> congrats rafael_carreras :)
<popey> :)
<forumsmatthew> congratulations!
<popey> blog it on planet ubuntu now you can :)
<popey> thanks stgraber !
<forumsmatthew> thank you
<popey> Jarlen you're up next
 * jarlen steps forward
<jarlen> I'm an active member and part of the formal leadership of the danish LoCo, and have been for some years now, my main contributions have been through the local team and as LoCo contact for most of the current year. I've helped arrange release parties and helped make it work on-site. I'm also working on the (belated) Global Jam, the danish team is having next saturday.
<jarlen> I'm a moderator on the danish LoCo's forum and have spent a lot of time moderating, assisting, teaching others, and writing guides.
<jarlen> I've been the driving force on the new website for the danish team, and the process of moving to a new CMS (Drupal).
<jarlen> Furthermore I'm co-host of the newly started Ubuntu-dk podcast.
<jarlen> oh yeah... and I wear my Ubuntu t-shirt in public :P
<popey> haha
<popey> podcasting huh? :)
<soren> I can wouch for jarlen as well. He's been around for ages and have been doing rocking work all along.
<popey> thanks soren
 * sbc is also here to cheer for jarlen.
<popey> jarlen: good to see another european podcast
<soren> I can also spell vouch correctly.
<jarlen> Yeah, recently started a danish podcast, got it accepted for iTunes and all (I guess that's a good idea?)
<popey> jarlen: we get 50% of our listeners from itunes.. so yeah, i guess ;)
<eitreach> jarlen is an excellent driving force in the community. Committed and hard-working.
<popey> jarlen: what did you plan for 8.10 release party? danish beer?
 * Snigepige cheers for jarlen, a good guy, devoted and always got a minute to help others
<jarlen> We've only released 1 chapter so far, but I think we have 2-3 more bewing
<jarlen> personally I plan danish beer for every occasion I can
<popey> ;)
<forumsmatthew> lol
<jarlen> but I've promised the others that I'll save it 'till the evening
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanishTeam/Arrangementer/IntrepidReleaseParty i like the poster, very professional
<jarlen> we'll spend all day in a mall trying to talk to people, show off what our ubuntu-machines can do
<jarlen> and try and convince regular people to not waste money on OSs
<popey> are you finding more people are already knowing what it is? or are most of them unaware of Ubuntu?
<jarlen> yeah, we have some good guys doing graphics :)
<jarlen> well, I'm studying at a technical university, so of course I'm surrounded by more linux-aware people than most others
<jarlen> on the streets it's a different story, and my t-shirt is rarely recognized
<popey> heh
<forumsmatthew> :)
<popey> I meant in the streets
<jarlen> though we did have 60-70 people showing up for our release party in copenhagen for 7.10
<popey> wow
<popey> thats great
<jarlen> and one of our large rooms turned into install help and ubuntu support
<popey> right, ready fo	?
<popey> er
<popey> right, ready forumsmatthew
<forumsmatthew> I like what I'm seeing, and with the cheering squad that turned up here, 'm happy
<jarlen> so apparantly there was a lot non-too-tech-savy people who were interested
<forumsmatthew> +1
<popey> +1 from me too
<popey> great work and great cheers, thanks to those who came along to cheer along..
<jarlen> thank you :)
<popey> keep up the great work
<forumsmatthew> congratulations!
<jarlen> soren, eitreach and sbc especially
<forumsmatthew> MajestyX doesn't have a wiki page listed. That's always been a requirement, so we can have a list of activities, testimonials, etc. in one place
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Majestyx
<forumsmatthew> great!
<popey> i think it's just a busted link
<popey> but Majestyx isnt here...
<forumsmatthew> doh!
<forumsmatthew> let's move on then
<popey> ok
<popey> seiflotfy: we've run out of time sorry
<popey> kidding!
<forumsmatthew> lol
<seiflotfy> popey: ok
<seiflotfy> :P
<seiflotfy> so
<popey> :)
<seiflotfy> Hello my name in Seif Lotfy. I have been using Linux since 2001 mostly SuSE and Debian. Switched to Ubuntu November 2004.
<seiflotfy> Most of my work is however upstream contribution, so I understand if my work is not considered Ubuntu.
<seiflotfy> I used to work on GNOME projects such Gimmie and founded the Zeitgeist and GNOME Zeitgeist Projects.
<seiflotfy> Most of my work is done very closely with Ubuntu users and Canonical employees to provide a unified experience on Ubuntu.
<seiflotfy> Also I followed their suggestion to make it KDE compatible and fulfill all dependanceis supported by Ubuntu.
<seiflotfy> I installed Ubuntu for almost every family member now. And turned the finance department of the family business (around 30 Computers) to use Ubuntu.
<seiflotfy> I am one of the first Egyptian Loco Team members. And since the Loco Team is a bit down lately.
<seiflotfy>  I have started some studies to determine howto deploy more Ubuntu and FLOSS in the middle east and which obstacles are being faced. This study i will present at the next UDS.
<popey> you're going to UDS-L ?
<seiflotfy> yeah
<seiflotfy> self financed
<seiflotfy> since i did not get sponsorship
<seiflotfy> :)
<popey> thats dedication
<seiflotfy> last year too
<seiflotfy> as in alst uds barcelona
<seiflotfy> was self financed
<seiflotfy> u can chekc out my wiki
<seiflotfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeifLotfy
<forumsmatthew> you have some very nice testimonials
<forumsmatthew> is there anyone here to cheer?
<seiflotfy> no1 really i think
<seiflotfy> only
<seiflotfy> (10:24:48 PM) stgraber:
<seiflotfy> heading back to the office now, sorry. I'll be back in 20 min or so. If we still have quorum without me, I'd like to say a huge +1 to seiflotfy for his work (met him at UDS-Barcelona, well, rather Zurich in fact) :)
<popey> that helps :)
<forumsmatthew> I realize not all of your activites are purely Ubuntu centered, but they do benefit us
<seiflotfy> yeah sorry :(
<forumsmatthew> Also, there is some good community support for your application
<seiflotfy> i try my best
<popey> please dont apologise..
<popey> we need upstream!
<popey> we're a theme and a notifcation bubble without it ;)
<forumsmatthew> I am actually looking at your application very positively
<nixternal> ahh, RMB meeting...was wondering who was adding all these new Ubuntu members... CONGRATS!
<nixternal> congrats to you to popey !!!
<popey> you too nixternal ;)
<forumsmatthew> hey, nixternal
<forumsmatthew> :)
<popey> ok, lets vote
<forumsmatthew> so, for seiflotfy I'm +1
<djsiegel_> +1
<forumsmatthew> and I look forward to meeting you in Dallas
<popey> we have a very positive +1 from stgraber, and I'm gonna +1 too based on great testimonials from respected people
<forumsmatthew> congratulations!
<djsiegel_> way to go, Seif!
<popey> congratulations, and I too look forward to meeting you in Dallas!
<seiflotfy> thanks guys
<seiflotfy> :)
<popey> and..
<popey> gimmie gimmie!
<popey> thats everyone isn't it?
<popey> we're done
<forumsmatthew> yep
<forumsmatthew> thanks, everyone!
<popey> ^5
<seiflotfy> thanks guys
 * popey goes back to sleep
<seiflotfy> thanks guys
<seiflotfy> back to hacking
<popey> \o/
<seiflotfy> popey: yeah we r rewriting the API now
<seiflotfy> Do and Docky ftw
<seiflotfy> :)
<popey> great!
<popey> I might have to grab you for an interview for the podcast soon :)
<seiflotfy> sweet
<seiflotfy> :)
<kalon33> ;)
<seiflotfy> ok really need to handle some hacking here
<Rocket2DMn> let's rock n roll
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-07
 * robbiew waves to evand
<evand> hallo
 * james_w waves
<mvo> hey
 * robbiew barely gets agenda out
<robbiew> after realizing the wiki is fubar'd
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> https://pastebin.canonical.com/23051/
<robbiew> agenda ^
<cjwatson> hi
<robbiew> let's get started...
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Ubuntu 9.10 Deliverables
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu 9.10 Deliverables
<robbiew> james_w: so we're done with what we plan to do for Daily Builds and DD, right?
<robbiew> still waiting on LP to address "The Bug"?
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> I think that might be close to done
<james_w> at the moment they are working on getting more disks for codehosting
<james_w> so we have been asked to refrain from pushing up branches for new packages right now
<robbiew> ok...thanks for that info
<robbiew> slangasek: around?
<robbiew> liw: do you know if anything progressed with the DEP on Copyright Licensing?
<liw> robbiew, I have not seen any progress on DEP5
<liw> (Steve is welcome to kick me if I've missed it)
<__keybuk> DEP?
<mvo> PEP
<mvo> with a different spelling I guess
<cjwatson> http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep0/
<liw> DEP = Debian Enhancement Proposal; http://dep.debian.net/ and http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep0/
<robbiew> okay...well I guess we missed this one...again :/
<__keybuk> Ah, not DEPendency then
<robbiew> we need to make progress on this in Lucid...possibly implementing before the DEP is accepted
<__keybuk> I bet whoever named that thought they were being cute ;)
<robbiew> as OEM is dying from tracking this stuff by hand in a spreadsheet
<liw> __keybuk, we didn't think we were being cute, I think :)
<mvo> liw: is that your doing (the naming)?
<liw> robbiew, do you want me to dust off the API design I did long ago, and spend a day on writing up a prototype and a sample cli app for querying stuff? might help dislodge things if there's code available
<liw> mvo, me and Dato and Zack
<robbiew> liw: sure
<robbiew> I'll take whatever I can get :D
<mvo> liw: heh :) ok
<liw> robbiew, then I*ll do that before the end of the month :)
<cjwatson> liw: there's also code in lintian these days I think, which may be a useful basis
<robbiew> [ACTION] liw to dust off the API design he did long ago, and spend a day on writing up a prototype and a sample cli app for querying stuff
<MootBot> ACTION received:  liw to dust off the API design he did long ago, and spend a day on writing up a prototype and a sample cli app for querying stuff
<cjwatson> or at any rate code in a bug report against lintian somewhere
<liw> cjwatson, ok, I'll give that a look
 * robbiew got abused by lintian when doing his first package...whipped me into shape good :P
<robbiew> cjwatson: I'm embarrassingly uninformed on the progress of archive reorg...my own fault
<robbiew> :/
<cjwatson> I think we've finally managed to mostly complete the argument about how delegated upload teams should handle new memberships
<robbiew> ok
<cjwatson> I said yesterday that I'd give it a day for further comments; there have been some but I think they can probably be integrated
<cjwatson> that means that by final we will pretty definitely have at least ubuntu-desktop, kubuntu, and mythbuntu reorg'ed
<robbiew> nice
<cjwatson> it's not perfect, but not too bad progress for the cycle
<robbiew> yep...especially with the other "fun" we've had
<robbiew> thanks
<robbiew> the last one is mine and slangasek's
<robbiew> Release coordination with debian...which is progressing....slowly...but progressing
<robbiew> thinking we can coordinate around a set of core packages...toolchain, kernel, maybe X
 * robbiew needs to talk to doko about the python 2.6 "drama" in Debian
<robbiew> fun :/
<robbiew> moving on
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Boot (yay!)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Boot (yay!)
<doko__> robbiew: didn't see any progress about GCC
<robbiew> first of all, great work _keybuk....I think Karmic is shaping up quite nicely ;)
<__keybuk> Quite nicely
<__keybuk> In the English sense
<robbiew> heh
<liw> could you translate that?
<__keybuk> I spent the day debugging mount issues, and have new code ready to drop
<robbiew> doko_: ack...we should probably talk sometime this week
<__keybuk> Next week I look at I/O issues
<__keybuk> liw: English often mean "bad" when they say "quite good" and "good" when they say "not bad"
<__keybuk> Americans mean the opposite
<robbiew> yep
<robbiew> anyway
<evand> silly Brits
<robbiew> cjwatson: _keybuk: so I'd like to enable usplash at boot by default and find a way to hide the console messages
<__keybuk> Sure
<cjwatson> we talked about a timeout at one point, perhaps that's still feasible
<liw> so... karmic is doing badly? or well? or there is no karmic and I'm hallucinating? or I should stop trying to pretend I know any English? *thoroughly confused now*
<robbiew> I had the Qa team triage a bunch of bugs to get a listing of kernel messages...that we can possibly silence, if the kernel team can do it
<__keybuk> cjwatson has the ball on usplash
<__keybuk> liw: Awesome on SSD, pain on HDD
<cjwatson> __keybuk: if you're OK with a timeout in principle, I can beat on that
<cjwatson> I just got sidetracked
<robbiew> cjwatson: well, the only problem with a timeout is that people get confused...some see it, some don't...I've gotten tons of bugs on it
<robbiew> "it" being where's usplash
<robbiew> even on relatively fast booting machines
<cjwatson> right, but if X shows up within (say) three seconds will they care?
<cjwatson> I do see your point, just don't want to regress SSD boot time
<__keybuk> Let's just turn it on for karmic
<robbiew> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ66Lnbztig</TT
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ66Lnbztig</TT
<__keybuk> And work on better for lynx
<cjwatson> __keybuk: ok, your call, will do
<robbiew> what about the console messages?
<cjwatson> starting usplash will hide nearly all of them, if it works properly
<cjwatson> modulo shutdown
<robbiew> cjwatson: well
<cjwatson> nearly> this is hand-waving to account for tty switches and stuff
<__keybuk_> Oops
<robbiew> not really..there's a bit of a flicker
<robbiew> I tried both ways
<cjwatson> oh, that
<__keybuk_> Missed that bit
<cjwatson> robbiew: I don't have an answer yet that I entirely like (though I know you suggested console=tty6 as a fallback), but I'll see what's possible; I'm sure it can be arranged somehow that at least we flicker to a black screen
<cjwatson> I don't think that at present we can get rid of the flicker entirely
<robbiew> right
<__keybuk_> console= is overridden by usplash no?
<robbiew> I can re-test, but last time I just enabled Usplash...I still saw flashes of console messages
<__keybuk_> usplash and X end up with messages on their VT anyway I think
<robbiew> before usplash started I think
<cjwatson> Keybuk and I talked about various console handling issues, which are currently in my court to fix, e.g. cryptsetup's dodgy use of 'console owner'
<robbiew> I'll re-test and post another crappy youtube video if I see anything
<cjwatson> those are blocking some more sensible handling in usplash
<cjwatson> __keybuk: we should probably undo that old workaround in which usplash doesn't switch away from its own vt on normal shutdown
<cjwatson> then it wouldn't matter what was on usplash's vt, as long as we got the ordering right
<__keybuk_> Yes
<cjwatson> (and we could VT_RELDISP it too ...)
 * robbiew leaves it in the MORE than capable hands of _keybuk and cjwatson
<__keybuk_> Don't know that one
<cjwatson> tty8 is still allocated when usplash exits, so X's first vt is 7, and then if you use fast user switching you end up on vt 9
<cjwatson> and then 10, 11, etc.
<cjwatson> it's a bit bizarre
<__keybuk_> Ahh
<__keybuk_> Yes, agree
<robbiew> ok..we can probably move on
<robbiew> [TOPIC] RC Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC Bugs
<robbiew> anyone got bugs they need help with...or just want to raise?
 * mvo got a bunch but will do his best to fix them in time
<__keybuk_> I have lots of those, but in my usual style I only milestoned them once I knew how to fix them
<mvo> I could do with some help on update-manager bug triage, liw is already a good help, if he can just continue that would be great
<liw> computer-janitor has a couple of crashes within the Python interpreter that I can't make any progress on
<cjwatson> I've been trying to beat on build failures, which are normally sort of implicitly RC
<cjwatson> especially cranking through http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html, now that wgrant has pointed out to me that once there's a newer version in karmic a row disappears out of the main four tables at the top, so it's possible to mostly avoid duplicating work
<liw> bug #420307 and bug #435580 specifically (please hit me on the head with the cluebat of obviousness)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420307 in computer-janitor "computer-janitor-gtk crashed with SIGSEGV in gdk_window_set_geometry_hints()" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420307
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435580 in computer-janitor "computer-janitor-gtk crashed with SIGSEGV in realloc()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435580
<mvo> I also need prioritizing a RT ticket (#35783) so that we get screenshots.ubuntu.com for release
<robbiew> mvo: ack
<cjwatson> the number left in main is manageable, but universe (I know) is intimidatingly large
<mvo> robbiew: many thanks
<robbiew> [ACTION] robbiew to prioritize  RT ticket (#35783)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to prioritize  RT ticket (#35783)
<cjwatson> if you have experience in some weird language or other, then hacking on anything in that list written in $language would be good - it often involves slightly weird skills
<mvo> robbiew: the important part is screenshots.u.c (the ticket contains another request as well)
<james_w> I can have a stab at some ftbfs
<evand> I'm seeing sporadic reports of webkit vomiting all over GTK, causing ubiquity to crash in the slideshow
<robbiew> mvo: noted
<mvo>  Igot some crashes in software-center too that look like webkit, but its a small number so far
<mvo> but the html/JS in software-store is not that complicated :)
<evand> and very odd issues around the install over top of another linux OS code setting the default uid to 0 (which we've patched over, but I'm trying to find the root cause of)
 * robbiew starts to regret asking about RC bugs...prefers the bliss of ignorance :P
<mvo> lol@robbiew
<__keybuk_> robbiew: It's a good thing, shows that your team is
<__keybuk_> on top of them
<robbiew> true
<james_w> wow, you get a shot of Colin's head when you look at any of the build records of any of these failures. That was a little unexpected
<cjwatson> ftbfs> gwt, jetty6, jinja2 are slightly beyond me
<robbiew> lol
<cjwatson> james_w: yeah, not perhaps entirely desirable ;-)
<doko__> cjwatson: looking at jjinja
<cjwatson> doko__: thanks
<cjwatson> evand: webkit> I forwarded one bug about that upstream
<cjwatson> bug 434413
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434413 in pywebkitgtk "Dragging from the installer Webkit widget crashes Ubiquity" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434413
<evand> ah, awesome.  Thanks
<__keybuk_> We so need a ddtt tag
<mvo> evand: I had the same and added some magic to the html to disallow dragging (as a workaorund)
<evand> mvo: ah, cool.  I'll cherry pick that from you then.
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
<robbiew> any of that?
<robbiew> lol
<liw> hey, that wasn't on the agenda, now I'm unprepared
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> wow...nothing...how depressing :P
<robbiew> cool
<__keybuk> I keep meaning to make a dacia-sandero package for this section just to get a laugh from one other person
<liw> wait
<liw> I have one
<james_w> hah
<mvo> I got RTL languages fully (well, hopefully) working in software-center
<liw> we have very little snow in Finland so far, and I have managed to find my bright light lamp
<mvo> if someone actually uses a rtl language, I would appreciate feedback :)
<robbiew> mvo: cool
<robbiew> liw: lol..okay...I guess that counts :D
<liw> robbiew, you were so desperate :)
<robbiew> indeed
<__keybuk> mvo: I'm sure slangasek speaks reverse polish
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:45.
<robbiew> thanks all
<robbiew> __keybuk: good one
<liw> muchas gracies
<mvo> __keybuk: haha
<evand> lol
<mvo> thanks
<james_w> thanks all
 * mvo runs to do some errands
<ara> hello :)
<bdmurray> hi
<pedro_> hola
<ara> marjo is traveling to lexington today and he asked me to be the chair of the meeting
<ara> so, here we are
<ara> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is ara.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ara> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<ara> sbeattie, can you give us a summary, please?
<davmor2> hello
<sbeattie> Yep, this week was a bit slow on the SRU front.
<sbeattie> SRU Activity for the past week (since 2009-09-30):
<sbeattie>  * Jaunty: 3 new packages in -proposed (landscape-client, tzdata, zsync) and 2 pushed to -updates (kadu, tzdata)
<sbeattie>  * Intrepid: 3 new packages in -proposed (landscape-client, tzdata, zsync) and 1 pushed to -updates
<sbeattie>  (tzdata)
<sbeattie> * Hardy: 4 new packages in -proposed (apt-cacher, debian-installer, tzdata, zsync) and 2 pushed to -updates (linux, tzdata)
<sbeattie> * Dapper: 1 new package in -proposed (langpack-locales) and also pushed to -updates.
<sbeattie> Thanks to Storm, A. Karl Kornel, and Artur Rona for testing SRUs this week.
<sbeattie> As always, assistance in testing SRUs is greatly appreciated.
<sbeattie> That's all I have for SRUs.
<ara> OK, thanks sbeattie :)
<ara> [TOPIC] - Bugday highlights -- pedro_
<MootBot> New Topic:  - Bugday highlights -- pedro_
<pedro_> Not a lot to share this week, we didn't organize a bug day last week (-ETOOMUCHTODO)
<pedro_> and i was about to run one this week for the confirmed without package bugs
<pedro_> but.. the ubuntu wiki is kind of br0ken , it doesn't allow you to create a new page
<pedro_> so i might skip the bug day for this week if that's not fixed soon
<davmor2> pedro_: you forgot the tm after Br0ken
<pedro_> *sigh*
<pedro_> heh
<ara> pedro_, well, there will be time to run bug days when karmic goes out :D
<pedro_> that's so true ;-)
<ara> pedro_, a "duplicates" one
<ara> ok, so, last item on the agenda
<ara> [TOPIC] Karmic Beta numbers - ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Beta numbers - ara
<ara> OK, so we had Karmic Beta last week and I am glad to share that we reached 98.9% coverage!!
<davmor2> ara: 100% honest
<pedro_> \o/!
<ara> Thanks a lot to everybody that helped testing
<ara> do you guys have any concerns from the testing phase for beta? things that can be improved for RC?
<ara> do you also think Karmic is going to be a great Ubuntu release?
<fader_> I'd say Karmic is going to rock but I don't want to jinx it :D
<davmor2> I think karmic will be the release that produces the most bug reports
<bdmurray> the best evar
<sbeattie> I had... quirky behavior from a karmic host testing karmic guests, such that I wasn't sure whether issues I saw were problems with the images or issues with virtualbox.
<davmor2> But I think the features that have gone in will mean that lucid will be friggin' awesome
<ara> sbeattie, I had the same problem
<ara> sbeattie, I tried kvm but it is very slow for me
<fader_> sbeattie, ara: what sort of issues?  I didn't see anything unusual with kvm
<ara> fader_, UTC hw clock, mainly
<sbeattie> fader_: kvm on my amd cpu host was significantly slower than virtualbox on the same host for some unknown reason.
<ara> sbeattie, same for me
<fader_> Interesting... I'll have to install virtualbox and compare behavior
<fader_> (and speed)
<ara> fader_, it would be nice to have a kvm session during the QA track at UDS ;-)
<sbeattie> I had issues where I rebooted a karmic guest, got no X, then powered down the guest, booted it back up, and then X in the guest came up fine.
<sbeattie> (on virtualbox)
<davmor2> there was a kvm track just not in qa it was very interesting though
<ara> sbeattie, the respawning issue?
<fader_> ara: I could happily participate as a user but I'm no kvm wizard :)
<davmor2> ara: beg kirkland
<ara> davmor2, I was at that one. I was thinking more on a hands on tutorial
<sbeattie> ara: no, this was different, IIRC. Post a jaunty->karmic upgrade.
<ara> fader_, ^
<kirkland> ara: davmor2: sure, guys, i'll be happy to do one
<kirkland> guys/gals
<kirkland> :-)
<ara> kirkland, nice :)
<fader_> \o/
<kirkland> fwiw, i have one scheduled for OpenWeek
<ara> kirkland, good to know!
<davmor2> kirkland: You Rock Dude
<ara> ok, any other topics?
<davmor2> We might have a working wubi tomorrow which would be nice :)
<ara> davmor2, no kidding?
<fader_> davmor2: Excellent!
<davmor2> the only thing maybe stopping it at the minute is installer issues that are in the ubiquity install.  So fingers crassed everyone
<davmor2> crossed even
 * cr3 crasses fingers
<ara> ok, anything else?
<ara> ok, let's wrap up
<ara> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:21.
<ara> thanks everyone for attending the meeting
<fader_> Thanks all
<davmor2> thanks
<pedro_> thanks!
<sbeattie> woo, thanks!
<davmor2> sbeattie: that's harsh only thanking woo
<ara> I would post the logs and summary whenever the wiki is fixed...
<davmor2> I'm assuming that someone has reported it's breakage?
<ara> s/would/will
<sbeattie> ara: thanks for doing that, BTW. That reminds me that I should backfill in the SRU data entries.
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-09
 * Amaranth looks around
<robert_ancell> meeting anyone?
<robert_ancell> motu meeting?
<dholbach> soren, nixternal, nhandler, persia: you guys around?
<soren> I was *just* about to ping you :)
<dholbach> Amaranth, robert_ancell: sorry for that
 * robert_ancell hopes Amaranth hasn't gone to sleep
<dholbach> hi geser
<geser> Hi
 * Amaranth looks around again
<dholbach> we just need one more
<dholbach> jpds does not seem to be online
<Amaranth> glad I changed xchat to beep someone someone talks to me
<dholbach> nixternal and nhandler are probably sleeping
<dholbach> maybe persia is around
<dholbach> I'll text jpds - can you try pinging the others somehow? :)
<Laney> Quick! Elect Laney to the MC!
<geser> dholbach: didn't jpds planned to wake up early? looks like it didn't work :)
 * persia is belatedly here
<dholbach> ah great - hi persia
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 02:31. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Travis Watkins, applies for MOTU and upload rights for compiz packages.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Travis Watkins, applies for MOTU and upload rights for compiz packages.
<dholbach> hi Amaranth - how are you doing?
<Amaranth> howdy
<dholbach> glad you didn't go to bed already :)
<Amaranth> very sleepy :)
<dholbach> Amaranth: I might be mistaken, but weren't you a MOTU before already?
<Amaranth> yeah
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> do you have any non-compiz plans for the next months/weeks?
<dholbach> geser, persia, soren: questions?
<Amaranth> well, some gnome desktop stuff related to compiz :)
<soren> dholbach: No, I'm ready to vote :)
<persia> I have no useful questions for Amaranth applying to upload compiz: that the upload can't happen is the worse case.
<dholbach> Amaranth: just today I read a message about compiz and gnome3 - do you know what's happening there?
<Amaranth> well, gnome-shell pretty much kicks compiz out
<Amaranth> since it's the window manager and the panel
<Amaranth> not sure what we're going to do about it yet
<dholbach> ok, just wanted to know if you knew a bit more :)
<dholbach> geser: questions?
<persia> Actualy, I do have a question: what is the list of "compiz packages"?  I don't see that in the application, and it's important to include to get the per-package uploader stuff.
 * dholbach is all set
<Amaranth> compiz, compiz-fusion-plugins-main, compiz-fusion-plugins-extras, libcompizconfig, compiz-bcop, emerald, libcompizconfig-backend-gconf, libcompizconfig-backend-kconfig
<geser> Amaranth: your application for MOTU is re-activation, right? and the upload rights for compiz are new or did you have them in past already too?
<Amaranth> don't think I missed any...
<Amaranth> MOTU is reactivation, compiz part is new
<persia> Amaranth, Would you mind adding that to the wiki page at some point?
<Amaranth> persia: will do
<mvo> probably also compizconfig-settings-manager
<Amaranth> ah, right
<Amaranth> and the python bindings
 * mvo is here to also show his support for Amaranth
<Amaranth> but that stuff is in universe
<mvo> oh, right - forgot that this is MOTU+compiz
<persia> Amaranth, With the future plans, it's better to define "compiz packages" inclusively, regardless of where it currently sits.  That means nothing changes if they move.
<dholbach> geser, persia: more questions?
<Amaranth> persia: understood
<dholbach> geser, persia: do you have any more questions?
<persia> I don't.
<geser> dholbach: no questions
<dholbach> [Vote] Shall Travis Watkins be re-added to MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Travis Watkins be re-added to MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dholbach> soren?
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<Amaranth> yay
<dholbach> [Vote] Shall Travis Watkins be recommended for compiz-related uploads?
<persia> We're doing two separate votes for the separate parts of the application?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Travis Watkins be recommended for compiz-related uploads?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<soren> +1
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<Amaranth> yay x2
<dholbach> congratulations Amaranth! :)
 * dholbach hugs Amaranth
 * Amaranth does a sleepy dance
<soren> Yay indeed.
<soren> Now get to work :)
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Robert Ancell's MOTU application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Robert Ancell's MOTU application
<dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/MOTUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/MOTUApplication
<robert_ancell> ok
<dholbach> hi robert_ancell - how are you doing?
 * mvo hugs Amaranth
<robert_ancell> good
<Amaranth> now I can be a robert_ancell cheerleader too
<dholbach> robert_ancell: do you have any plans for the multitude of preferences/administration tools? :)
<robert_ancell> dholbach, not at the moment - there seem to be so many attempts at improving them that haven't gone anywhere
<robert_ancell> I plan on fixing individual ones as the opportunities arise
<dholbach> geser, soren, persia: questions?
<geser> no
<soren> dholbach: I was going to ask the same thing you just did :)
<soren> ..so no.
<robert_ancell> I do actually plan on fixing the user ones for Karmic
<robert_ancell> Lucid
<persia> robert_ancell, Looking at your uploads, most everything seems to be in the Desktop group.  What made you decide to apply for MOTU rather than being a Desktop Developer?
<dholbach> robert_ancell: what do you mean by "user ones"?
<robert_ancell> dholbach, user management (about-me, users)
<dholbach> ahh ok
<robert_ancell> persia, I was recommended to apply for MOTU as a stepping stone to being a developer
<robert_ancell> a number of packages I work on are in universe (cheese, glade)
<dholbach> also there's no way to apply for "Desktop Developer" yet
<persia> Well, one can apply for per-package for the contents of a seed, but yeah.
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> any more questions?
<geser> can we start voting? :)
<dholbach> persia?
<persia> I'm good.
<dholbach> alrightie
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Robert Ancell become a MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Robert Ancell become a MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> 1
 * dholbach gives persia a '+'
<persia> WHy do I need a '+', and nobody else?
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<persia> (or is my client just failing to display properly?)
<dholbach> congratulations robert_ancell!
<robert_ancell> yay! Thanks all!
<dholbach> persia: I guess the latter - we all typed '+1'
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
 * dholbach waits a few seconds. :)
<dholbach> just a quick note: I can't make the next meeting (Oct 22nd, 17 UTC)
<Amaranth> wasn't there someone else?
<dholbach> Amaranth: afaics that was for the next meeting
<Amaranth> ah, he changed it
<dholbach> ok... adjourned :)
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 02:54.
<Amaranth> thanks guys
<dholbach> thanks persia, soren, geser and Amaranth and robert_ancell :)
<soren> o/
<LaserJock> ok, well it looks like we have the room
<LaserJock> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:06. The chair is LaserJock.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<LaserJock> who all is here for the Edubuntu meeting?
<LaserJock> o/
<dinda> o/
<dinda> sbalneav: ping
<alkisg> o/
<sbalneav> dinda: Hello
<LaserJock> ok, well, that's a few people anyway
<dinda> don't see highvoltage online
<LaserJock> ok, well, let's start rolling and see who comes in
<LaserJock> what I want to talk about today is Karmic
<LaserJock> we have 6 days until Final Freeze
<LaserJock> so what needs to be done by then?
<sbalneav> I've got the DVD image downloaded, and started installing last night.
<LaserJock> [TOPIC] Karmic Final Freeze prep
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Final Freeze prep
<LaserJock> sbalneav: which image?
<LaserJock> the latest daily or Beta?
<sbalneav> Beta
<LaserJock> ok, well .... I broke the dailies
<LaserJock> or somehow they broke, I assume it was something I did
<sbalneav> brb, workping.. caryon
<LaserJock> I'm trying to squeeze as much out of the DVD as possible so it's not a huge shock to users
<LaserJock> I was able to get it down to 2.4GB
<LaserJock> but now the text-based installer no longer works
<LaserJock> so no LTSP/edubuntu-server
<alkisg> LaserJock: so what should we download for a test? The daily (==to debug the problem) or the beta?
<LaserJock> if you can do the daily please do
<LaserJock> the Beta is more for general user testing
<LaserJock> for people who are only going to test once
<alkisg> OK, but downloading a dvd takes about 8h for me, so I can only test a couple of times :)
<LaserJock> alkisg: even with rsync?
<alkisg> Yeah 2 mbps only... :-/
<alkisg> Thanks, carry on...
<LaserJock> well, I don't have very fast internet either unfortunately
<LaserJock> in any case
<LaserJock> the daily builds are what will actually become the Release Candidate next week
<LaserJock> so we sort of need to do as much testing on those as we can
<LaserJock> I'll try to get ahold of cjwatson or somebody who know d-i, but they're all enormously busy with Ubuntu's release, etc.
<LaserJock> [ACTION] LaserJock to track down current d-i problem
<MootBot> ACTION received:  LaserJock to track down current d-i problem
<LaserJock> what else should be done for karmic?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: what's the status of sabayon in Karmic?
<LaserJock> stgraber, alkisg : is LTSP looking good?
<stgraber> I think so
<stgraber> (sorry was fixing an issue at the office)
<stgraber> if they don't break any additional thing with upstart it should work correctly and be release-ready
 * alkisg also tried the latest LTSP and it looks fine...
<alkisg> I can't get italc to stop crashing, though :(
<LaserJock> stgraber: you know about that ^^ ?
<cjwatson> stgraber: can you check whether it still works now that we're using upstart by default?
<cjwatson> err
<cjwatson> now that we're using USPLASH by default
<stgraber> ah, I'll need to test
<stgraber> LaserJock: yeah
<cjwatson> LaserJock: do you have logs of the d-i failure somewhere?
<stgraber> LaserJock: italc bug unfortunately
<LaserJock> cjwatson: I don' t have the logs, I just wrote down the error message
<cjwatson> unfortunately error messages alone are usually not massively useful but sometimes you get lucky
<LaserJock> cjwatson: it was trying to install e2fsprogs and said that it was missing 4 things, libnewt0.52, libuuid1 and a couple others
<LaserJock> cjwatson: it was at the very beginning of installing the base system that it bailed
<ogra> cjwatson, i belive usplash was enabled forcefully by setting USPLASH=yes last upload
<cjwatson> ogra: look at who did the upload.
<ogra> (or do you refer to the loglevel changes)
<LaserJock> cjwatson: the ncurses error that came up was something about missing the multiverse Packages files
<ogra> cjwatson, i know who does upload ltsp apart from me :)
<stgraber> I currently set USPLASH=yes in the ltsp package, that may not be necessary anymore though
<cjwatson> ogra: oh, I uploaded usplash to enable it across the board. but if ltsp was already uploading it, fine
<cjwatson> stgraber: you can keep doing so
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Sabayon is functional.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: the version in karmic?
<sbalneav> 2.28.0 I beleive
<cjwatson> LaserJock: it doesn't have *any* Packages files, which might not be helping matters ;-) I'll look
<ogra> cjwatson, well, the setting can go again if its enabled anyway
<LaserJock> cjwatson: awesome, thanks
<ogra> no needto diverge from the distro there
<cjwatson> ogra: not really a divergence, and besides, usplash might be turned off by default again in lucid
<LaserJock> cjwatson: I assumed it was due to my seed changes but I should be just using Ubuntu's for the d-i stuff so I was not sure where to start debugging it
<ogra> yeah, ltsp should indeed keep it, the boottimes are definately longer
<cjwatson> LaserJock: I think it's a cdimage bug of some kind
<LaserJock> cjwatson: k
<LaserJock> sbalneav: we've got that, thanks
<LaserJock> in terms of overall package versions
<LaserJock> we're a tad behind Debian wrt gpaint and denemo
<LaserJock> it would've been nice to get the new upstreams in but we're quite late for that
<LaserJock> so I think we'll have to wait for Lucid
<LaserJock> Gcompris is looking good according to upstream
<LaserJock> I've got a couple little bugs on the Live side of the DVD I'd like to fix
<LaserJock> for some reason  Ubiquity isn't getting removed on install
<LaserJock> and gnome-app-install is installed, I'm not sure if that's supposed to happen
<LaserJock> what about documentation?
<LaserJock> I know for one that a new edubuntu-docs needs to get uploaded
<LaserJock> I fixed a few issues in edubuntu-artwork bzr regarding the Firefox homepage, that needs to be uploaded
 * LaserJock suddenly wonders if he's talking to himself again
<LaserJock> ok then
<dinda> is anyone working on the docs?
<LaserJock> not that I know of
<LaserJock> sbalneav is the LTSP doc guy, but I don't think we have anybody specifically working on Edubuntu docs
<dinda> what needs to be done?
<LaserJock> dinda: right now all we're shipping is an About Edubuntu
<sbalneav> Which docs?  I'm working on the handbook.  Won't make it into the release, but it'll be in a ppa
<sbalneav> I'm working on the edubuntu handbook
<LaserJock> sbalneav: where is that?
<sbalneav> I don't have a branch published anywhere yet.  I *do* have the LTSP docs published.
<LaserJock> right I've seen a ltsp-docs uploaded
<dinda> may not be able to get any help for this go round but can definitely round up help for the next cycle on docs
<LaserJock> dinda: ok, that'd really help
<LaserJock> basically we're treating Karmic as an Edubuntu Beta
<LaserJock> we're wanting to get the DVD operational
<LaserJock> start ramping the community up
<dinda> fyi: not sure if you folks have seen discussions on Gnome and possibly Ubuntu going to Mallard for all documentation
<dinda> it's a topic for UDS
<LaserJock> dinda: I haven't seen much on that lately
<LaserJock> dinda: so maybe for Lucid is the idea?
<dinda> yip, lucid would be the first chance to use it
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> we're going to need a release announcement and release notes
<LaserJock> I think the Edubuntu Council is going to take care of that
<sbalneav> Mallard appears to be topic-based help, whereas the handbook is meant more to be as an actual *book*, at least, that's always been the intent.
<LaserJock> so anything else that needs to be addressed before Release Candidate?
<dinda> sbalneav: correct on mallard
<LaserJock> sbalneav: right, an Edubuntu Handbook I envision being turned into a PDF
<LaserJock> rather than use the system help
<LaserJock> reading a book in yelp or mallard is not going to be fun, IMO
<dinda> yeah, having a printed doc would be great
<LaserJock> what I'd like to do is convert some of the material on the help wiki
<LaserJock> into topic-based help
<LaserJock> and then have the Edubuntu Handbook as something people can print out and hand to a teacher, etc.
<highvoltage> sorry for being late
<LaserJock> dinda: I think the doc situation is not exactly well defined at this point
<LaserJock> sbalneav is the primary contributor these days
<LaserJock> and as he's said, he's been working on an Edubuntu Handbook
<LaserJock> but I think the area of topic-based help is wide open
<LaserJock> but mostly I'd love to see more of the wiki material landing either on the users's machine (in the help system) or on edubuntu.org
<LaserJock> edubuntu users are pretty good (think Asmo) about putting things on wiki pages
<LaserJock> but we haven't been converting those into "official" docs much
<LaserJock> anyway, that's more Luci discussion
<LaserJock> *Lucid
<LaserJock> so to summarize:
<LaserJock> 1) fix DVD
<LaserJock> 2) fix About Edubuntu/Edubuntu homepage
<LaserJock> 3) make sure iTalc works
<LaserJock> 4) EC to draft release announcement and release notes
<LaserJock> and then I think we're pretty close to wrapping Karmic up
<LaserJock> thoughts?
 * LaserJock considers silence a big "that's right LaserJock, you da man!" :-)
<LaserJock> the last item was the continued pursuit of a meeting time
<LaserJock> I am going to do one last call for votes on doodle
<LaserJock> and then I'll email a follow up with the top picks for meeting time
<highvoltage> LaserJock: uhm uhm...!!!!
<highvoltage> LaserJock: YES YOU DA MAN!
<highvoltage> LaserJock: sorry just got to my PC and there were suddenly 10 things needing attention!
<LaserJock> highvoltage: np
<LaserJock> it wasn't exactly well announced this week
<highvoltage> LaserJock: is there some kind of bug list or easy way to see what's required for #1?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: where was it announced?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: it's on the Fridge calendar
<LaserJock> no emails this week though
<highvoltage> ah, ok
<LaserJock> I just realized it was Friday
<LaserJock> and I wanted to discuss the DVD and what's needed to finish off Karmic
<highvoltage> I'll have to subscribe to the fridge again. I thought it's calendar had been discontinued.
<LaserJock> as far as #1, no there aren't any bugs
<LaserJock> we should investigate a scheme for filing bugs against the DVD
<LaserJock> I don't know how they do it in Ubuntu, but we should find out I guess
<LaserJock> highvoltage: Fridge is just using Google Calendar
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok
<LaserJock> anything else before we end?
<LaserJock> going once
<LaserJock> .... going twice
<LaserJock> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:56.
<LaserJock> ok, thanks for coming folks
<LaserJock> and remember to test the DVD as much as possible!!
<pitti> hello
<Riddell> hello pitti
<lool> Hi
 * kees waves "hi"
 * robbiew waves
 * apw zones in
<marjo> marjo waves
<slangasek> morning, all
 * rtg lurks
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
<slangasek>   * marjo, davmor2 to coordinate ongoing testing of wubi with the dailies between now and RC
<slangasek>   * slangasek and bdmurray to garden the regression-potential bugs
<slangasek>   * Riddell to find bugs for kubuntu release issues and make sure they're milestoned
<slangasek>   * slangasek to look at possible Kubuntu-only EOL announcement for 8.04
<slangasek>   * asac__ to follow up on notify-osd/gpm regression
<slangasek>   * ogra to email apw the list of armel kernel bugs for which merges are outstanding
<slangasek>   * slangasek and smoser to coordinate dry-runs of UEC/EC2 publishing next week, in advance of RC
<slangasek>   * davmor2 to work with ttx on creating a test plan for eucalyptus
<marjo>  In progress. davmor2 following up on outstanding wubi bugs.
<ogra> slangasek, we have worked rather directly on the bugs instead of going through slow email processes ... good progress on imx51 bugs last week
<lool> ogra: You around?
 * asac follows up _now_ not sure if its an issue anymore
<lool> Oh here is
<ogra> lool, i am
<ogra> lool, ou could have called my new mobile from your new mobile ;)
<ogra> *you
<slangasek> regression-potential bugs - bdmurray did some work on this last Friday; I've done a little but not very much, so this is still outstanding on my side
<Riddell> kubuntu bugs are milestoned, ones high on my radar are at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> test plan for eucalyptus: done, needs some sync with ISO tracker, pinged marjo/ara about it
<slangasek> UEC/EC2 publishing> this is in progress, there've been a number of changes in the past 48h to how UEC images are being published so we're not to the point of doing a full dry run yet
<lool> ogra: That would have costed us both old EURs
<ogra> pfft
<ogra> i havent heard it ringing yet
<ogra> would be worth an euro
<slangasek> marjo: on the outstanding wubi bugs, is there a list of these?  the biggest problems with wubi testing in beta were presumed to all come down to a single mount option change, hopefully that's fixed by now
<slangasek> (so if there are new wubi bugs that need fixed for release, I unfortunately don't know what they are)
<slangasek> kubuntu-only EOL announcement for 8.04> still outstanding on my end
<marjo> slangasek: actually it's really down to one bug
<davmor2> slangasek: I was looking at hooking up with ttx and the testcase on Monday to ensure it worked as is and then follow up on changes throughout the week to ensure it plays nicely for rc
<ttx> davmor2: I validated it myself today, fwiw
<davmor2> cool :)
<slangasek> ok, cool
<cjwatson> slangasek: that ntfs-3g bug was supposed to be fixed, but we're still seeing instability
<slangasek> marjo: ttx said he's pinged you about getting the eucalyptus test plan on the tracker... do you have enough info to get that changed in the database, or should you and I sit down and work through that? (today?)
<slangasek> cjwatson: ah :/
<cjwatson> slangasek: I've tried changing ntfs-3g to make syncio imply sync, which may help, but that was only today so I haven't had feedback yet
<cjwatson> I'm worried about it
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> the symptoms are "bits randomly seem to not land on disk" ...
<marjo> slangasek: ara owns that task, but maybe you and i can have a chat this pm, OK?
<slangasek> [ACTION] marjo and slangasek to follow up on getting eucalyptus tests updated on tracker
<MootBot> ACTION received:  marjo and slangasek to follow up on getting eucalyptus tests updated on tracker
<marjo> slangasek: thx!
<davmor2> cjwatson: if you can get a respin in I can test it
<slangasek> [ACTION] davmor2 to test wubi with syncio->sync fix ASAP
<MootBot> ACTION received:  davmor2 to test wubi with syncio->sync fix ASAP
<cjwatson> davmor2: sure, running now
<slangasek> Riddell: btw, by "milestoned" do you mean "milestoned and targeted"?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<Riddell> slangasek: targeted to karmic?  I think so I can double check
<slangasek> Riddell: please :)
<slangasek> marjo, cr3, fader: g'morning
<marjo> Hardware testing
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Netbooks:
<marjo> Passed: 8 (73%)      Failed:      1 ( 9%)    Untested:    2 (18%)
<marjo> Laptops:
<marjo> Passed: 21 (95%)     Failed:      0  ( 0%)   Untested:    1  ( 5%)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Servers:
<marjo> Passed: 42 (88%)     Failed:      0  ( 0%)   Untested:    6  (12%)
<marjo> Desktops:
<marjo> Passed: 10 (100%)    Failed:      0  (  0%)  Untested:    0  (  0%)
<marjo> Results are looking good; should get more passes when some fixes come in and get verified
<fader> FYI, the netbook failure seems to be resolved in the .32-rc3 mainline kernel so I imagine that one should get fixed soon
<marjo> netbooks and laptops now are reported separately for ease of tracking
<marjo> fader: thx.
<slangasek> NC10> bug #340014 is thought to be fixed now, but the hardware has to be physically shipped back before we can get a cert test in?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/340014/+text)
<fader> slangasek: I will ask manjo to run checkbox on it and send us the results
<slangasek> ok
<fader> And then ship it back :)
<slangasek> are there ETAs on any of those RTs, and are any of the untested units critical to have results on for release?
<slangasek> fader: right, sounds like a good plan
<marjo> slangasek: i have upped the priority on RTs; fader will followup, as usual
<marjo> will escalate, as necessary
<fader> None of the RTs are critical for the release, and at least a couple of them are sparc systems so they're probably going to remain low priority
<marjo> fader: thx
<slangasek> marjo: and for the latter question?  are any of those units critical to have?
<slangasek> oh, fader answered
<slangasek> ok, great
<slangasek> the other item I had for QA was bug #435714
<marjo> next QA topic:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435714 in checkbox "Please port to polkit-1 or drop policykit usage" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435714
<marjo> * Bug:435714: Please port to polkit-1 or drop policykit usage
<marjo>    Implemented a potential fix, testing planned.
<marjo> slangasek: that's all for QA topics; thx
<slangasek> ok, great!
<pitti> I discussed that with cr3 yesterday
<pitti> and we settled for an easy implementation (just rip out all PK stuff)
<marjo> pitti: thx for the update
<slangasek> marjo, fader, pitti: thanks
<cr3> and pitti has kindly offered to review my changes, which I will take advantage of once I'm done testing
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<mdz> marjo, fader: great job on the hardware testing reports!
<mdz> and tracking issues
<slangasek> pitti: good turnover on the bug list this week, but there seems to be no shortage of new bugs to take their place on the list :)
<marjo> mdz: thx for your support!
<pitti> as usual, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> We are in full bug fixing mode now.
<pitti> This week we fixed 7 RC bugs. 8 (ugh) new bugs were added to the radar.
<pitti> We are currently discussing a bug fix release of X.org. It was approved and is being prepared for upload.
<pitti> This week we also landed a large bug fix release for mesa, after lots of discussion; it caused three regressions on radeon cards, two of which have patches; Monday is the final call for whether to keep or revert it.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> slangasek: whack'a'rat :)
<pitti> asac seemed to be keen to milestone half of his bugs
<slangasek> yes, he usually is... :)
<Riddell> Kubuntu?
<asac> what needs to be fixed needs to be fixed imo.
<pitti> Riddell: please go ahead
<slangasek> 424132> is this partially fixed already? it seems like the "utterly broken" no longer applies?
<Riddell> Good progress on RC bugs including kpackagekit being fixed and upgrade from hardy in testing
<Riddell> still on my radar..
<Riddell> "Wrong translation catalogue filename (KPackageKit)", 425373
<Riddell> KDM/ksmserver hangs on logout, Intel only, 432521
<Riddell> "Microblogs plasmoid does not show friend timelines nor public timeline", Jonathan to investigate 414572
<Riddell> "OOo KDE file dialog is utterly broken", good progress being made, 424132
<Riddell> Qt fails to build
<Riddell> actually the first of those is fixed
<Riddell> that's what I get for preparing my report the night before
<pitti> slangasek: 424132> seems it got better for some people, but it's not entirely clear
<Riddell> I'm testing a fix for Qt build, Debian has the same issue and it only happens in buildds
<Riddell> ScottK also reported an issue with the application launcher missing icons in netbook
<Riddell> but I think we're on target for release
 * Riddell done
<slangasek> pitti, Riddell: I think we need some triage follow-through on 424132, then; if "better for some people" fixes the critical problems then the bug severity ought to be downgraded, if it doesn't that should be clarified
<slangasek> right now, it's not clear to me how much of this bug is being considered release-critical
<pitti> slangasek: hm, given Roman's list there still seems to be a lot which is wrong in our packages
<Riddell> slangasek: I believe he's fixed most of the issues and it just needs to go into the packaging
 * ScottK is her now.
<slangasek> pitti: half of his list of outstanding problems are "you can't filter the file dialog" - hardly critical?
<ScottK> her/here
<Riddell> right, the remaining issues we can live with
<pitti> ok, so maybe "medium" then?
<Riddell> I'll check in with him about the status of getting his fixes into the package and review the bug status
<davidbarth> slangasek: DX?
<slangasek> pitti: btw, I don't like seeing "not really a major bug" judgements being made in the release status page that aren't reflected in the *bug* status in LP - if you disagree with a bug being marked as "high" in LP, please adjust the severity...
<slangasek> davidbarth: one more second
<pitti> ok, noted; will update the bugs
<pitti> done
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<slangasek> pitti, Riddell: thanks
<slangasek> davidbarth: go ahead
<davidbarth> the status is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> slangasek: sorry, i thought i was part of the Desktop thread ;)
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<lool> davidbarth: Sorry wanted tocontact you earlier about it, but could you put https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/maximus/+bug/421019 in your karmic list?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 421019 in maximus "maximus crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke()" [High,Incomplete]
<davidbarth> the release targeted bugs are under control, either fixed
<lool> Oh you updated it 40 minutes ago
<lool> nm
<davidbarth> or in the case of xsplash, we keep one open as a tester reported a remaining glitch
<davidbarth> lool: sure, looking into that
<davidbarth> lool: i commented on a similar bug, there have been quite a few releases of maximus since
<davidbarth> lool: so i'd like to get feedback from the reporter, testing the latest version
<lool> Right; I found that one had a bunch of dups so was worth flagging
<davidbarth> lool: ok
<lool> davidbarth: Yup, it's looking good now, thanks
<davidbarth> apart from that
<davidbarth> indicator-session was changed to display a power icon when the user is not "online" (in IM terms)
<lool> You poked ubuntu-doc?
<davidbarth> that helps with the discovarbility (er..) of the feature
<davidbarth> flagged as a high priority item
<davidbarth> lool: nope, need to do that
<slangasek> davidbarth: wrt 413348 being kept open, note that if the Ubuntu package task is closed, it's not really on the release team's radar... I'm not sure whether that bug /should/ be reopened, but if you think it should, please open the package task as well
<davidbarth> there is still another patch in the upload queue to work on an apparent icon theme issue
<davidbarth> slangasek: hmm, i'll reopen it to let it be visible
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> anything else for DX?
<davidbarth> that's it for DX. questions?
<lool> there's that theme bug
<lool> Which I wanted to cover and we pushed on you this morning
<rickspencer3> davidbarth, is the power icon theme done?
<davidbarth> lool: correct, unr
<davidbarth> lool: should we see that later?
<lool> bug #444766
<lool> davidbarth: sure, I'm next I think
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444766 in ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings "some text not visible in UNR default theme (dup-of: 424891)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444766
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 424891 in hanso "text of Totem's "playlist"-button unreadable" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/424891
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: yes it is, ie we display the power icon as recommended
 * lool thinks of creating an ubottu loop
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: but ted and kenvandine noticed a theme error related to it; so we're keeping the light on on this one
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: but the slight logic change is in
<rickspencer3> davidbarth, has the design team confirmed that it is displaying the intended behavior? (aside from the theme bug)
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: along with the fix to not trigger the user im client by default during the session startup
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: i asked them to approve the changes documented as part of the code merge
<rickspencer3> davidbarth, ok, but if they haven't seen it actually working, I am concerned that it is not "closed"
<rickspencer3> I'll ping them and make sure they sign off
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: was: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-session/confused-icon/+merge/13027
<rickspencer3> davidbarth, right, but code merge review != observed behavior
<rickspencer3> (that's it, I'm done asking :) )
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: right
<slangasek> moving on?
<rickspencer3> slangasek, right
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<rickspencer3> movin' along  ... ;)
<lool> Here's an overview of overall status (slightly more details this week):
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<lool> * armel: toolchain is fixed but didn't fix oo.o; other issues were discovered; w
<lool> ill push workaround (jaunty version) for oo.o and rebuild some packages; also need to work on the FTBFS list more
<lool> * armel+dove: status is good, even if installation experience is not ideal; we need to improve install documentation, and NCommander is working on a partman-uboot to prevent unbootable configurations in manual partitioning
<lool> * armel+imx51: kernel making rapid progress but couple of high profile issues still open; otherwise ok
<lool> * UNR: good shape but would like to unblock #444766
<lool> * moblin: good shape for what it is, we'll continue efforts towards merges and fixing top bugs
<lool> Concerning the approaching kernel freeze, I think the focus should be on the fsl-imx51 kernel and its bugs
<slangasek> how are we able to ship the jaunty .so?  Is this duplication of OOo source, or of toolchain source?
<lool> It's uuencoded AFAIK
<lool> The source is in ... jaunty
<lool> *cough*
<lool> I'm not a fan either, and the real broken binary is on the side so that we can continue working on fixing it
<slangasek> someone should make sure that's even legal to ship, let alone proper
<lool> Ok; action me
<slangasek> [ACTION] lool to confirm that shipping jaunty OOo .so w/o source is legal
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to confirm that shipping jaunty OOo .so w/o source is legal
<lool> So perhaps I should cover LP #424891 quickly
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 424891 in hanso "text of Totem's "playlist"-button unreadable" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/424891
<lool> It was an issue in Dust; text was not visible (see the screenshots in the dup); fix was committed upstream today
<lool> I assigned myself and will package the fix next week when I locate it
<slangasek> ok, great
<lool> davidbarth: thanks btw
<davidbarth> lool: np; the font issue should be ok now
<slangasek> wrt kernel freeze, I see a lot of bugs marked "needs upload" - the kernel freeze is a *freeze*, is an arm upload planned that will allow these to be confirmed in the archive before the drop-dead date?
<lool> Perhaps something the kernel team can comment on
<slangasek> ok
<lool> apw: w00t
<slangasek> anything else on mobile?
<lool> apw: -mx51 upload in the works?
 * ogra would hope so
<apw> the arm branches are waiting on a respin of the master kernel which i am hoping to see either today or first thing next week
<apw> as there are some pending AppArmour updates in there we want in the arm branches too
<lool> AppArmour  :-)
<lool> apw: thanks for the update
<kees> AppArmor(tm)(R)
<lool> slangasek: Note that most fixes were confirmed as fixing thebugs though
<slangasek> lool: alright
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<ogra> yeah, kudos to the kernel team for the big work on imx51
<ogra> that was some awesome progress last week
<slangasek> apw: so, what else is new? :)
<rtg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<pitti> and for fixing dell killswitch and intel drm loading \o/
<rtg> slangasek, I'm planning on an upload this afternoon, should be nearly the last one.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<slangasek> rtg: ok
<rtg> _not_ an ABI bumper
<slangasek> does it fix my rfkill problem? :)
<rtg> slangasek, the one in the archive should.
<rtg> do let me know if not.
<slangasek> hrm, the bug state didn't reflect that at all, I had no idea you were expecting testing from me
<rtg> slangasek, which bug? It should be 'fix released'
<slangasek> rtg: bug #395358, which is on the list
<apw> i think we have dell and thinkpad rfkill mised herre
<apw> mixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 395358 in linux "thinkpad fn+f5, Asus fn+f2: regression, rfkill toggling in the kernel instead of userspace" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/395358
<rtg> slangasek, ah, that one. perhaps not. I was focusing on Dell.
<rtg> slangasek, I'll have apw or smb take a look.
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<rtg> I'm looking at backporting upstream audio. blech!
<slangasek> status on bug #423767 in your report says "fix released", but there's still an open karmic task for linux-firmware saying there's a firmware conflict?
<rtg> slangasek, thats about it from me.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423767 in linux-fsl-imx51 "please enable rt2800usb and disable rt3070sta in the imx51 kernel" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423767
<slangasek> (so hopefully that's still on the radar)
<rtg> slangasek, yeah, I've been putting off the firmware fixes. I'll get to them in time
<slangasek> ok
<apw> linux-firmware task is still open
<lool> That bug seemed to be blocked on ralink input whic scared me
<lool> It the risk is regressing the other hardware, perhaps we can ask for testers with that hardware to try a test package with the new fw?
<slangasek> rtg: mm, and you say bug #445588 is fixed "for all main branches and in the archive", but I see linux-ec2 still has a task open
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 445588 in linux-ec2 "FTBFS: cpio: not found" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445588
<rtg> slangasek, fix committed, just needs upload
<rtg> I'll get it done today.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> lool: or just ship different firmware on armel than on other archs?
<lool> Oh tha tworks
<slangasek> (that doesn't leave us stranded if no one is in a position to regression test)
<slangasek> it does mean converting the package from arch: all to arch: any
<slangasek> rtg, apw: ^ would that be a reasonable fix for bug #423767?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423767 in linux-fsl-imx51 "please enable rt2800usb and disable rt3070sta in the imx51 kernel" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423767
<lool> We could also patch the relevant armel driver to look for another filename this cycle
<rtg> lool, this isn't an on-board part, is it?
<lool> rtg: No; it's an add on mini PCI
<lool> It's the one in the lange board you have
<rtg> lool, why wouldn't we use the same firmware as the rest of the distro?
<lool> rtg: It seems we're blocked on updating the firmware because we're not sure the new ones workon other hardware
<rtg> lool, I have a pegatron which is lange5.1, right?
<lool> Yes
<lool> Should be a good test case for this bug
<rtg> and there is a wireless gizmo in it?
<lool> Yes
<lool> (Or perhaps you miss it if it was removed but I dont think so?)
<rtg> its runnign Jaunty. we have no Karmic kernel for it
<lool> Speaking of which
<lool> Did you receive a set of patches for lange support which you consider for merging?
<rtg> ain't gonna happen by release
<lool> Okay
<rtg> plus, I don't think I've ever seen a patch set, unless amit has
<lool> (I'd still love to know whether you got them but that's not release meeting material anymore then)
<lool> Ok
<lool> let's bring it up out of band
<rtg> ack
<rtg> slangasek, we're done monopolizing tour channel
<rtg> your*
<slangasek> rtg: ok, thanks for the updates :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> ttx: hi
<ttx> o/
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus was recently updated
<ttx> with RC bugs and karmic targets of opportunity
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> Looking at the RC bugs...
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/432154
<slangasek> ttx: that page doesn't seem to actually tell the status of any of the bugs, it just lists assignments
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432154 in qemu-kvm "dynamic block device attach/detach not functional with karmic KVM" [High,In progress]
<ttx> I'm giving status now, with opportunity for assignee to comment
<ttx> kirkland is a little blocked on this one
<ttx> since upstream qemu-kvm and upstream eucalyptus have different views on the fix
<kirkland> ttx: i have opened a discussion with upstream
<kirkland> ttx: but I see no practical solution happening before release, at this point
<ttx> hm
<ttx> kirkland: that prevents any attachment of EBS volumes ?
<kirkland> ttx: as long as these volumes are scsi, yes
<kirkland> ttx: note that virtio would work
<kirkland> ttx: but eucalyptus hates on virtio
<slangasek> is that something we should continue to track for a post-release update?
<ttx> slangasek: maybe eucalyptus can be convinced to change their position on virtio
<ttx> kirkland: attaching /dev/vda is better than not attaching anything
<mdz> kirkland: is there no chance of isolating and fixing the KVM bug?
<mdz> this did work in 9.04, no?
<kirkland> ttx: i agree, wholeheartedly, particularly when upstream virt experts are saying this is the way forward
<kirkland> mdz: it was an accident that it worked
<mdz> it seems that virtio would be far better than nothing.  the only drawback is that it uses a different  device naming scheme, no?
<kirkland> mdz: and it didn't work reliably
<ttx> mdz: and eucalyptoids hate it for some reason
<kirkland> mdz: right, different naming scheme is eucalyptus objection, breaking ec2 images, perhaps, running in euc
<kirkland> uec
<mdz> ttx: their stated reason for preferring scsi was as I have said: the device name
<kirkland> mdz: ttx: they don't "hate" it
<mdz> and not "hating"
<kirkland> right, it's all about the predictability of "sd*"
<mdz> kirkland: we could symlink sdX -> vdY easily enough, no?
<kirkland> images that use UUID for disks/partitions should not be affected
<mdz> kirkland: or even change the udev rule so that virtio devices get named sd*
<kirkland> they mentioned older CentOS (etc) images as not supporting UUID
<ttx> kirkland: you said "<kirkland> ttx: but eucalyptus hates on virtio" not me :)
<mdz> we shouldn't choose the underlying implementation based on the name, when the name is easily changed
<kirkland> ttx: sorry, that was slang
<kirkland> mdz: the problem is that we don't have visibility into all guests
<kirkland> mdz: we can change the behavior or ubuntu guests
<mdz> good point
<kirkland> mdz: but not fedora, centos, etc guests
<kirkland> this is a pickle
<mdz> I propose that we put virtio in place now, so that we have *something*
<ttx> mdz: +1
<kirkland> mdz: ttx: i'll take this up with Dan today
<ttx> ok, next bug ?
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/446023
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446023 in eucalyptus "uec node cd install doesn't handle static network configuration" [High,Triaged]
<slangasek> [ACTION] kirkland to discuss virtio for uec with Dan today (Bug:432154)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to discuss virtio for uec with Dan today (Bug:432154)
<ttx> kirkland / cjwatson ^
<cjwatson> I have seen this, but have been completely swamped
<cjwatson> and I still can't say I understand why the configuration for DHCP doesn't need to change as well
<cjwatson> but I can make the change - but probably not before Monday, now
<ttx> ok
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/434723
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434723 in m2crypto "Main Inclusion Request: m2crypto" [High,Incomplete]
<ttx> zul ^
<kirkland> cjwatson: drop a description of what is to be changed, colin, and i'll try to have a look at it today
<cjwatson> kirkland: you know as well as I, it's just in debian/eucalyptus-udeb.finish-install
<zul> the testsuite has been enabled but it fails on the buildds because it timesout the buildds i tried the newer version and the same result happens I dont have a work around yet
<kirkland> cjwatson: okay, i'll take a crack at it
<cjwatson> I haven't got to the point of working out what needs to be changed there, or I'd have done it ... :-)
<cjwatson> sorry
<slangasek> ttx: please note that it's completely not scalable to have you /requesting/ status from assignees of all bugs individually during the meeting; we still have three other reports to hear and are already at time
<kirkland> cjwatson: i was worried you'd barf at what i had
<kirkland> cjwatson: as it was a little fragile
<ttx> slangasek: ok
<cjwatson> kirkland: I can probably review a patch quicker than I can create one
<ttx> i'l give quickstatus
<kirkland> cjwatson: fair enough
<zul> ttx: the testsuite has been enabled but it fails on the buildds because it timesout the buildds i tried the newer version and the same result happens I dont have a work around yet
<ttx> zul: ok
<slangasek> ttx: thanks - and if more detailed reporting is needed, email after would be better
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/446841
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446841 in image-store-proxy "Unable to start images installed/registered via the image store" [High,Triaged]
<zul> ttx: of course other than disabling the testsuite
<ttx> We have an issue here, niemeyer must look into it
<ttx> that's a relatively recent issue.
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/440757
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440757 in vm-builder "ec2-images have ubuntu.canonical.com in /etc/hosts" [Medium,Triaged]
<ttx> and
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/444605
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444605 in vm-builder "make sure source is obtainable for uec kernel images" [Medium,New]
<ttx> are in good progress and on track
<ttx> The last two are Java-related FTBFS that I'll fix soon
<slangasek> ok, good
<slangasek> sounds like we're on track overall, then
<slangasek> mdz also asked for us to cover the status of eucalyptus testing here
<mdz> marjo: jono: can you give us a quick update and if there are any issues, we can resolve them
 * pitti has to leave now, sorry
<slangasek> I saw a bit of email going on parallel to the meeting; is a status report there available?
<jono> sure
<slangasek> pitti: thanks, g'night
<mdz> I just need to know if testing is on track
<jono> so Jorge has drafted a call for testing, Ara has give it the +1 and so has kirkland
<jono> I am just drafting the final announce and will post to mailing lists, planet, the fridge and the Eucalyptus Forums
<mdz> background: we're running very close to the wire with eucalyptus and have asked for a special testing program to supplement what we've been able to test so far
<mdz> jono: when will it launch?
<jono> it should go out after my call with you
<jono> next few hours
<marjo> mdz: and ara will follow up with her own posts
<jono> mdz, this was the soonest we could do as we agreed to this call for testing after Ara had finished for the day yesterday
<mdz> slangasek: ok
<slangasek> anything else for server?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
<kees> hi!  Our current status: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
<kees> open and being worked on by TreSys: bug 434084 (SELinux busted due to boot-time changes).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434084 in refpolicy-ubuntu "SE Linux not enabled" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434084
<kees> open and being worked on by myself and jjohansen: bug 446524 (profile-building tool regression due to kernel logging improvements).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446524 in apparmor "aa-logprof: doesn't parse new null profile syntax" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446524
<kees> we're closing more RC bugs than we're getting, so things seem to be settling pretty well -- that is all from us.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> alright, thanks
<slangasek> any questions for security?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Karmic/ReleaseStatus
<cjwatson> Boot experience substantially cleaned up this week by restoring usplash across the board, and fixing where init script output goes. Enabling usplash everywhere is considered temporary for Karmic; Lucid will be more subtle about it.
<cjwatson> Wubi's stability is still an issue of serious concern; either bits just seem to not be hitting disk or we get random hangs, and there's no indication in the logs about why. davmor2 has tested the ntfs-3g change to make syncio imply sync. I think we've found one definite installer bug here, but in case that still doesn't resolve the stability, we'd appreciate it if somebody from the kernel team could have a look.
<cjwatson> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html is getting gradually healthier for main, but universe is still an area of considerable concern (I know MOTU agree).
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html is getting gradually healthier for main, but universe is still an area of considerable concern (I know MOTU agree).
<cjwatson> LaMont is running a more up-to-date build test that's two-pass (uses its own output), and is filing bugs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=karmic-autotest; please contribute to this if you ha
<cjwatson> ve any spare cycles. Many of these bugs are quite easy to fix so it's a good way to make a serious dent.
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=karmic-autotest
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=karmic-autotest
<slangasek> cjwatson: davmor2 has tested syncio->sync, and it didn't fix it?
<mdz> cjwatson: that is a pretty long list; when was the most recent build test before this one?
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Karmic/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Karmic/ReleaseStatus
<davmor2> slangasek: no it hung
<slangasek> davmor2: ok
<cjwatson> mdz: while I'm not sure of the answer to that offhand, the problem is not that we haven't been running build tests, but that we haven't been fixing things from them at a reasonable rate (IMO)
<mdz> cjwatson: almost all of those bugs are 44xxxx, i.e. just filed recently
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<slangasek> (oops, other URL 404s)
<cjwatson> mdz: the previous one was that recorded in http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html, and we were asking people to track things there rather than arranging to file bugs. I don't think that worked very well and we need to automate the bug filing in future.
<mdz> ah
<mdz> agreed
<cjwatson> although *personally* I've found wgrant's index quite convenient, and better than anything comparable for the tests lamont's been runining
<cjwatson> running
<cjwatson> so swings and roundabouts
<cjwatson> slangasek: to be clear, davmor2's test did not reach the point that I was expecting syncio->sync to fix
<slangasek> cjwatson: right
<slangasek> anything else on foundations, then?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
 * sistpoty|work waves
<slangasek> ScottK, sistpoty|work: and hi
<sistpoty|work> main issue is still FTBFS, I guess...
<ScottK> Yep
<ScottK> That and we are getting to the point where NBS is a bit sporting too
<ScottK> Maven is going to be a mess whatever we do.
<sistpoty|work> *nod*
<ScottK> I think it's best to press forward and let lamont and doko__ sort it out as best they can.
<sistpoty|work> and ScottK got quite good at whipping me to fix FTBFS (even at work!) :P
<ScottK> Those are the major points.
<ScottK> Any questions?
<slangasek> none here; anyone else?
<cjwatson> NBS wasn't *too* long when I last checked
<cjwatson> longer than I'd like, obviouslyl
<ScottK> It's not horrible, but in conjunction with FTBFS, there's a lot to do.
<slangasek> agreed
<slangasek> the call for help on FTBFSes a few weeks back generated some interest; should we have another call, or announce in different forums or anything?  Or do we just keep moving forward?
<ScottK> I think another call would be good.
<ScottK> We seem to have lost some of the momentum again
<sistpoty|work> I wouldn't know to which other forums we could try, but I second to have another call
<slangasek> who'd like to take that action?
<ScottK> Maybe sistpoty|work could do another training session.
 * ScottK is getting ready to leave town for the weekend, so looks at sistpoty|work.
<sistpoty|work> hmpf, only got this evening to for it, so that would be unannounced again
<sistpoty|work> sure thing, I'll also draft another call
<slangasek> [ACTION] sistpoty|work to draft another call for help w/ FTBFS
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sistpoty|work to draft another call for help w/ FTBFS
<slangasek> sistpoty|work: thanks :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> anything else that needs to be discussed?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:56.
<slangasek> thanks, all
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-11
 * jussi01 waves to Pici elky Pricey nalioth
<elky> o hai.
<MenZa> elky: So, did you find some food, or are you still hungry?
 * Pici yawns
<elky> i found food, yes. it was nommy.
<MenZa> wonderful.
 * jussi01 wonders if Daviey or Pricey are here?
<elky> hrm, i should dig up the agenda, shouldn't i.
<MenZa> elky: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<jussi01> so we have 3...
<jussi01> wheres nal?
<Pici> sleeping?
<MenZa> nalioth doesn't sleep. I thought that was common knowledge.
<elky> he was awake a bit ago
<jussi01> Pici: I was Pm'ing a few mins ago
<Pici> jussi01: ah
<jussi01> anyway, shall we begin?
<jussi01> MootBot: help
<nalioth> sleeping?
<jussi01> nalioth: since when did you sleep'?
<jussi01> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 05:05. The chair is jussi01.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jussi01> #topic Revisit #ubuntu-ops policies including 'no idling' & +v
<elky> hrm... no wonder i'm confused, i have the wrong agenda up...
<jussi01> [topic] Revisit #ubuntu-ops policies including 'no idling' & +v
<MootBot> New Topic:  Revisit #ubuntu-ops policies including 'no idling' & +v
<jussi01> So, Pricey or daviey around?
<jussi01> Ok, since neither of them are here, shall we leave this to the next meeting?
<nalioth> let's move on to menza's topic and wait for one of them (perhaps one will show up in a few minutes)
<jussi01> ok
<jussi01> [topic] The official policy on #ubuntuforums
<MootBot> New Topic:  The official policy on #ubuntuforums
<elky> do we have reps from #ubuntuforums here at all?
<jussi01> hrm, who was on the forums council?
<jussi01> Technoviking: around?
<MenZa> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncil
<MenZa> Technoviking is the only one here, as far as I can tell.
<MenZa> Of course, I wouldn't know if the others use different nicks for IRC.
<Pici> jdong is around, just not in this channel or active
<MenZa> He's not set /away, perhaps worth a poke
<Pici> They're both in the US, so probably asleep
<elky> i cant see value in continuing without the benefit of input from either one or both
<MenZa> I'll have to say I agree
<nalioth> Daviey: Pricey: you about?
<MenZa> As much as I would've liked this brought up - a month or so more wouldn't make a difference.
<Pici> I'd like to see it brought up too, but we really need a forums representitive here.
 * MenZa nods
<elky> MenZa, there is now an active founder, I believe. This may help some in that time.
<jussi01> ok'
<MenZa> If the next IRCC meeting is after the ForumCouncil's next meeting (November 5th), they could also be given time to discuss this amongst themselves
<elky> MenZa, are you available at the time they're scheduled for?
<MenZa> Might I suggest the Forum Council is e-mailed about this, with the information I placed on the IrcteamProposal page?
<MenZa> elky: Their meeting?
<elky> yes.'
<MenZa> elky: Probably - it's midnight my time (or... perhaps 11pm, depending on when DST is), so I should be able to make it.
<elky> MenZa, we will see if we can have someone put it on the agenda. if they can, you may want to be there since you're obviously invested in this.
<MenZa> I'll note it in my calendar.
<MenZa> (yay, an excuse to finally sort out my gcalendar!)
<elky> heh
<jussi01> ok, so the agreement is to put it on the forums council agenda and as many of us turn up as possible?
<MenZa> I'd appreciate it if I weren't the only one around, at least.
<Pici> The meeting time looks reasonable to me, I can try to make it.
<elky> that would be appropriate, yes. I'd suggest "clarification on the forum council's jurisidiction in regards to #ubuntuforums. the irc council wishes to avoid stepping on toes"
<jussi01> probably a little late for me, but lets see.
<MenZa> jussi01: Midnight I think - DST ends on the 25th (here, at least)
<jussi01> [agreed] Add "clarification on the forum council's jurisidiction in regards to #ubuntuforums. the irc council wishes to avoid stepping on toes" to forums council agenda and as many representitives as possible to attend.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Add "clarification on the forum council's jurisidiction in regards to #ubuntuforums. the irc council wishes to avoid stepping on toes" to forums council agenda and as many representitives as possible to attend.
<jussi01> and Pricey Daviey's issue next meeting then?
<elky> feel free to un-lazify my grammar in that.
<elky> jussi01, seems the only fair thing to do, yes.
<jussi01> ok
<jussi01> [agreed] Revisit #ubuntu-ops policies including 'no idling' & +v  - Add to next meetings agenda as Pricey and Daviey are not here.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Revisit #ubuntu-ops policies including 'no idling' & +v  - Add to next meetings agenda as Pricey and Daviey are not here.
<jussi01> ok, any other Issues today?
<Pici> Not that I can think of.
<jussi01> MenZa: elky nalioth ?
<MenZa> Nope.
<elky> i'm done.
<jussi01> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 05:25.
<elky> whee
<MenZa> Well, that was quick.
 * MenZa is used to hour-long meetings.
<MenZa> But then again, that was politics. Impossible stuff.
<MenZa> Life is simpler now.
<elky> for now, not merely now.
<MenZa> heh
<Pici> Okay, see you all in a few hours.  Gonna get some more sleep.
<jussi01> nini Pici
<Pici> :)
<MenZa> Night Pici!
<MenZa> If only time differences didn't cripple coordination
<josua> ola
<xkennhoobb-it> hello
<xkennhoobb-it> I'm installing ubuntu 8.04
<Darxus> xkennhoobb-it: You are aware that #ubuntu is the place to ask related questions?
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-11
<duanedesign> hello BTians
<duanedesign> CCD/7
<fabchampion> test
<soren> o/
 * stgraber waves
 * geser waves too
<stgraber> cjwatson, persia, cody-somerville: ping
<cody-somerville> I'm here
<cjwatson> hi, almost forgot about this meeting
<geser> should we start?
<cjwatson> please
<stgraber> we have quorum and it's 5min past meeting time, so I think we can start, others can join later
<geser> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:05. The chair is geser.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<geser> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<geser> [TOPIC] Review of previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of previous action items
<geser> * Cody Somerville to send e-mail requesting feedback from developers on Marco Rodrigues application to participate in Ubuntu Development.
<geser> cody-somerville: did you write that mail?
<cody-somerville> I didn't get around to doing this. I meant to ask a few other board members for advice on how to best word the e-mail.
<cody-somerville> I'm not overly familiar with the original incident so it might even be best for someone else to take the action item from me.
<cjwatson> I'm not particularly familiar with it either
 * stgraber neither
<geser> so that leaves only soren, persia and me
<geser> but I have no idea what to write in that e-mail
<cody-somerville> I nominate persia ;)
<geser> I'm not sure how to move forward as we need more feedback from developers but on the other hand Marco is forbidden to contribute to development
<cjwatson> didn't we discuss this in the last meeting?
<geser> yes, but I don't remember if we had a plan to move forward besides ask for more feedback
<cjwatson> if we don't ask, we'll never know
<cjwatson> my thesis in the last meeting is that Marco has been contributing to enough things that are related to Ubuntu (most notably Debian) that there ought to be some developers who've had meaningful interactions with him recently
<ScottK> I can guarantee there will be some that respond "No, he's caused enough trouble before, not worth the risk".
<cjwatson> I know - I do feel obligated to gather wide feedback though.
<ScottK> Sure.
<cody-somerville> I have to admit that I'm not a big fan of publicly calling attention to someone for their previously negative behavior.
<ari-tczew> I think that we should give chance for Marco R.
<geser> cody-somerville: should we use LP feature to mail all ubuntu-dev members asking for feedback/opionions instead?
<ScottK> That would suffer from an unfortunate lack of transparency.
<cjwatson> I would rather get honest feedback, which I hope people can trust the DMB to summarise accurately, than have people not want to express honest opinions because they're worried about giving negative feedback in public
<ari-tczew> you want to get more feedback. I would like give a feedback, but I'm not familiar with work this guy.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Then you aren't really in a position to give feedback, are you?
<geser> I could write an e-mail to ubuntu-devel(?) asking for feedback/opionions and set reply-to to the DMB list
<cody-somerville> I also want to makes sure we do the Right Thing (TM) here and set a precedent that we'll be happy to follow in the future for similar cases.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I want to tell, that you should (I'm nobody important) give chance him. then he can show his improvement.
 * soren just got off the phone... catching up
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: the original "please don't contribute here any more" mail from the MOTU Council gave very specific requirements which must be met.  One of those was positive advocacy from developers working with him.
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: we're not asking for general feedback here; we're seeking to give him a chance to meet that specific requirement.
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: ok, so I'm quite right now. :]
<ari-tczew> s/quite/quiet
<cjwatson> (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-January/003067.html)
<geser> so we are looking for MOTUs who volunteer to work together with Marco to be able to judge if he changed?
<stgraber> geser: +1 on sending to ubuntu-devel with Reply-To to dmb, also indicating that answers will be kept private and that DMB will make a summary of the feedback received
<ari-tczew> geser: let's ask coolbhavi for this one. he propably is interested in sponsoring.
<cody-somerville> hmmm
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: currently, Marco is barred from contributing through sponsors, FYI
<cjwatson> again, please see the logs of the last meeting, where there was discussion of this point
<cody-somerville> Reading the statement from the MOTU again, I don't see any stipulation that the MOTU supporting his wish to come back have to have any experience working with him directly.
<cjwatson> stgraber's plan looks good to me
<geser> cody-somerville: would you comment on someone who you didn't work with?
<cjwatson> I'm disappointed that we're basically going over old ground here
<cody-somerville> It isn't asking for that. It asks for MOTUs to actively support the wish
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: I can support that interpretation, but let's issue a call for feedback and get it over with
 * soren approves of stgraber's plan, too
<cjwatson> if we don't put a specific requirement in the mail that the MOTUs in question have worked with Marco, we can then assess the strength of the feedback when it comes back
<geser> should we also ask Marco for a list of MOTUs supporting him (as required by the decision) instead of looking for them ourselves?
<cody-somerville> I'm happy to get it over with but I do have reservations about a general call for feedback. It may make it more difficult for Marco to try and participate in the Ubuntu community as folks who don't know him may form an unfounded opinion of him based.
<geser> (of course we can do both)
<cody-somerville> based on googling up his name or what not after getting the e-mail.
<cody-somerville> I think a general call for feedback may be unnecessarily embarrassing.
<cjwatson> geser: Marco would probably (reasonably) argue that he'd attempted to provide that in his application
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: if we're not willing to issue a call, then we should just say that we don't feel the support he's amassed in his application meets the bar of "active support", given our discussions last week
<cody-somerville> I'm happy to support Marco's application to this board for an appeal of his ban based on the spirit of the Ubuntu project and duration of the time that has past since his ban.
<cjwatson> given that the DMB members didn't on the whole seem to find the endorsements overwhelming, as I understood it?
<cody-somerville> Which would leave the board to decide his application based on the second requirement " A solid indication of changes in the work style."
<cjwatson> or let me put it differently: if we aren't willing to issue a call for feedback, we should get off the pot and vote :-)
<cjwatson> (I ought not to prejudge the outcome)
<cjwatson> We could also, if desired, vote separately on a probationary period, as Cody suggested last week.
<geser> please tell me if I should start a vote
<stgraber> I'd really prefer getting more feedback (as suggested before) and based on that vote on 1) letting him contribute again 2) probationary period (and if so, how long) 3) keeping the ban
<cody-somerville> I'd like to table this again. I'd prefer Marco at least have an opportunity to address the board before we vote.
<stgraber> though maybe we can vote on whether or not to ask for more feedback on the list
<stgraber> cody-somerville: should we have to vote without further feedback, I'd also like to hear from him before we vote
<cjwatson> we already voted last week to issue a call for feedback from developers
<cjwatson> why vote on that again?
<cody-somerville> May I also suggest that we seek input from the CC and TB on how to proceed with this? I think this is the first time any council in Ubuntu has had to consider something like this and it would be nice to set a precedent that the TB and CC are happy with.
<stgraber> oops, sorry, memory issue ;) /me should re-read last meeting's log ;)
<cjwatson> not that I'm biased as a TB member, but I think the CC is better-qualified for this kind of thing
<cjwatson> (and I think that would be appropriate, yes)
<geser> so everyone agree that we should contact CC for help?
<cjwatson> I do, and I also think we should carry out the results of our previous vote on calling for feedback.  I don't currently see how to resolve that with Cody's objection expressed today.
<stgraber> I also agree with contacting the CC
<cjwatson> how can we move this forward?  we're nearly 50 minutes in
<geser> [ACTION] geser to contact the CC asking for help with Marco's appeal
<MootBot> ACTION received:  geser to contact the CC asking for help with Marco's appeal
<cody-somerville> Lets table the action and move on. We can discuss it further on mailing list.
<cjwatson> Looks like we have to now.
<geser> if nobody objects let's move to the next topic
<geser> [TOPIC] MOTU application: Felix Geyer
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU application: Felix Geyer
<geser> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FelixGeyer/MOTUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FelixGeyer/MOTUApplication
<cjwatson> gosh, what a lot of endorsements.
<geser> debfx: are you here?
<debfx> hi :)
<stgraber> lots of very good endorsements
<cody-somerville> indeed
 * ajmitch would endorse based on virtualbox alone :)
<cody-somerville> debfx, How and when did you get involved with Ubuntu?
<geser> looks like this is an easier topic than the previous one :)
<stgraber> geser: definitely :)
<debfx> cody-somerville: I submitted some patches for the virtualbox package, I think it was in early 2009
<cody-somerville> I'm ready to vote.
<stgraber> me too
 * soren too
<cjwatson> yep
<geser> [VOTE] Should Felix Geyer (debfx) become a MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Should Felix Geyer (debfx) become a MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> +1 # most complete application I've seen all year
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<stgraber> +1 based on plenty of very good testimonials + extremely complete application
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<geser> soren: ?
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<geser> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<soren> Sorry, fell asleep waiting for the vote start :)
<stgraber> that was an easy one ;)
<stgraber> congrats debfx
<debfx> stgraber: thanks :)
<geser> ok, who wants to be the next chair?
<stgraber> depends exactly when is next meeting I guess. If I'm not wrong, it's going to be at UDS at 8am on the Monday
<geser> I'm not mistaken the next one should be Oct 25th, 12 UTC
<soren> So you agree. Good :)
<soren> (12 UTC being 8 AM UDS time)
<geser> or do plan to skip the next one due to UDS?
 * cjwatson won't be unjetlagged yet by Monday, so 8am is doable for me
<soren> I'm not sure. I'll be attending UDS, but may be commuting in at that time.
<stgraber> It's the same timezone for me and I'll have been in Orlando for quite a few days by then anyway, so it should be doable for me too
<stgraber> we just need to see if we will have quorum or not, depending on who'll be traveling at the time (as most of DMB will be in Orlando I guess)
<stgraber> the first session is at 10am, so we should be fine having DMB, breakfast and then go to the intro session
 * geser isn't at UDS and doesn't have time at 12 UTC anyways
<stgraber> ok, so let's keep it at the scheduled time and date and I'm fine chairing that one
<geser> anything else before I close the meeting?
<ajmitch> what happened with the call for nominations for the DMB?
<geser> ajmitch: buried in cjwatson's TODO
<cjwatson> I have been trying to hand it off
<ajmitch> aha, which was a little less important than the release :)
<cjwatson> in fact I thought geser had taken it ...?
<geser> cjwatson: I could if I would know how to setup the voting (or who to ask about it)
<cjwatson> if you're trying to do it in Launchpad, ask #launchpad for help
<ScottK> Please be trying to do it with CIVS.
<cjwatson> if you're trying to do it the way we did the vote that instituted the DMB, I believe that was done using http://www.cs.cornell.edu/andru/civs.html
<cjwatson> ScottK: I was getting there :)
<geser> cjwatson: that's the first question already: if LP or CIVS
<stgraber> CIVS would be nice
<cjwatson> let's do CIVS
<geser> ok, I try to setup a CIVS poll
<geser> anything else?
<stgraber> nope
<geser> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:15.
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-12
<lifeless> persia: do we have a meeting tonight?
<nigelb> lifeless: as per wiki, seems like you do
<persia> lifeless, I believe so.
<lifeless> hi
<elky> hi
<persia> Hi.  You live in a benighted realm that believes that sunrise should happen after sensible people are already awake.  Wait an hour.
<persia> Or did something change that I missed?
<lifeless> wiki page says 1000 utc
<nigelb> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 12 2010, 09:11:56
<lifeless> is gnome lying to me about time in london ?
<persia> Right, and it's 9:00 UTC
<lifeless> blah
<nigelb> heh
 * lifeless stabs gnome
<persia> Time in London doesn't matter.  time in Reykjavik is more interesting.
<persia> London is part of one of the benighted realms above-mentioned.
<nigelb> When does DST change, last sunday of this month?
<lifeless> nigelb: I'm already on DST
<lifeless> so, bleh, this meeting will be @ 11pm.
<nigelb> heh
<persia> nigelb, Randomly, in abitrary directions, depending on the whim of the governments for the area.  I think the worst was once when a government decided on a Friday that DST started that weekend.
<persia> If you want gory and amusing details, read the tzdata changelog.
<lifeless> you can blame NZ for this
<nigelb> Eeek, no thanks
<elky> I should probably find some food before this reprieve ends.
 * persia remembers one morning having to reschedule a conference call because DST happened in different directions on the same day in the areas where all the participants sat.
<persia> (and, annoyingly, ending up with a 5am call in Sydney as a result)
<nigelb> I think this month is going to be generally confusing for meetings
<nigelb> Someone should tack that on the /topic
<nigelb> right, its already there :)
<lifeless> mmm
<lifeless> I may not make it
 * elky munches and waits.
<Mohan_chml> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 12 2010, 09:53:56
<persia> Mohan_chml, Soon.
<Mohan_chml> persia: yeah :)
<persia> Good evening Vantrax
<persia> So, um, it's 10:05.  Who is present?  Do we have quorum?
<lifeless> I'm here for a few minutes; really just a few.
<persia> ogitux seems not here yet, so we may not have that much business before us.
<Mohan_chml> yes. His wiki seems not updated with details
<elky> shall we take the moments until he arrives to discuss board population?
<persia> Sure.
<Vantrax> yep
<elky> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 05:08. The chair is elky.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<elky> Woo, I remembered!
<elky> [TOPIC] Board members
<MootBot> New Topic:  Board members
<Vantrax> nice work:P
<Vantrax> I have seen 4 apps total.
<persia> And our target is still 9 total members, 3 east, 3 central, and 3 west, right?
<Vantrax> do we hand that to CC or go back again and ask for more
<Vantrax> I think its 8
<Vantrax>  
<Vantrax> err we have 8
<persia> Right.  We got one more last time we talked about this, but never the other one, and never moved to split meetings.
<Vantrax> and 12 was the goal with 2 meetings and 4 for quorum still
<elky> I'm rather eager to avoid holding this up unnecessarily.
<Vantrax> we are still going to have a numbers issue atm
<persia> 12!  That's larger than I think we need, especially with a quorum of 4.  I'm not precisely happy about assuming most folk won't show up.
<Vantrax> we have 8 right now afaik
<elky> Yeah, that worries me too.
<Vantrax> we struggle to get 4
<elky> We're still in the rut where it's always the same few who show up.
<Vantrax> yep
<persia> Vantrax, yes, but the question is: do we need the folk that don't show?
<Vantrax> probably not
 * persia would rather have a smaller board that was mostly present: people who only show once every few months are hard to trust
<Vantrax>  we have the same four each time normally
<persia> Right.
<Vantrax> with amachu and takdir making it intermittantly
<persia> So, let's look at distribution.
<persia> lifeless is *way* east.  elky is east.  I'm central.  Vantrax: I forget if you're east or central?
<Vantrax> I'm east, in brisbane
<lifeless> I'm so far east, ATM, that I'm really west.
<Vantrax> lol
<lifeless> (UTC+13)
<persia> lifeless, For our purposes, that's merely east, when far-west is still +5:30
<persia> OK, so we need some central and west.
<Vantrax> yep, we can safely assume people can make this time
<persia> Right.  Let's take the position we don't need anyone else to the east.
<elky> Central is historically where we've had retention issues.
<persia> Let's ask the current members that don't show if they want to remain on the board.
<elky> May I suggest that's the wrong question?
<Vantrax> I'm happy with that asumption elky
<persia> And let's send the list of new nominees and commonly-missing members to the CC as two separate groups, "central" and "west" and ask them to select two central and three west.
<Vantrax> excellent idea
<persia> elky, What's a better question, assuming that we're not guaranteeing them a continued spot regardless of their answer?
<elky> persia, I'm more inclined to ask if they're able, rather than if they're willing.
<Vantrax> I think we should ask what they want
<persia> elky, That's a *much* better question.  Good call.
<persia> Vantrax, As someone who is rarely able to do the set of things I want, I'll say that's dangerous.
<lifeless> agreed
<Vantrax> if they can't fulfil the obligation they resign
<Vantrax> that is my opinion
<elky> Vantrax, easily spoken in theory. Harder to actualy do.
<elky> Noting that when asking if they're able that we'd be specifying *both* times.
<Vantrax> yep, I'm pretending its a perfect world
<persia> No, we're not asking that people can make both times.
<persia> We're asking that central people can make both times and western people can make the later time.
<elky> persia, we're asking them if they can make at least one of the times.
<persia> OK.
<persia> I just want to make sure we're not asking our sometimes-present western member to attend the earlier time at which lifeless hasn't already fallen asleep.
<Vantrax> are we looking at three or two meetings?
<persia> Two ought be enough.
<Vantrax> I agree, was just checking
<persia> If we were doing three meetings, we'd not have enough coherency, and I'd argue we ought to split into an "Asia" board and an "Oceania" board.
<Vantrax> I think 2 should be good coverage
<lifeless> speaking of which. ciao.
<Vantrax> night champ
<elky> lifeless, thanks for coming, ciao
<Vantrax> so we have the same continuing problem
<elky> We do. We've had it since the inception of the RMB.
<elky> We get closer to solving it each time.
<Mohan_chml> o/
<persia> That's the point of going from the original 7 to 9 members and splitting the meeting.
<Mohan_chml> can I have a minute?
<persia> We're up to 8 and have 4 regulars, which beats the 3 regulars we had at one point.
<Vantrax> hello mohi
<elky> persia, yep. Improvements have been achieved.
<Vantrax> true, we make quorum usually, even if I'm on my phone like today
<persia> So, Everyone feel good about the plan I've outlined above?
<Mohan_chml> what about starting an IRC channel for Asia/Ociania memebers and analysing their presence at the time of meeting before making them as an RMB?
<Mohan_chml> Hola Vantrax =]
<persia> Mohan_chml, Doesn't help.  I'm often around at this time, but my join/part messages wouldn't even begin to help anyone know that.
<Vantrax> hrm, not a bad idea
<elky> Mohan_chml, or they could just attend the meetings like now.
<Mohan_chml> elky: that is also acceptable
<Vantrax> I would think people wanting to join would turn up to meetings as elky said
<elky> Mohan_chml, then consider it already in action ;)
<Mohan_chml> (:
<Mohan_chml> My suggestion is, Lets make a single meeting for next two times, see the presence of the applicants and their skill of Judging, then making the meeting as two
<Vantrax> mohi, we don't have enough applicants
<Mohan_chml> ah..!
<nigelb> ah, a bit of arm twisting required to get more people to apply? :)
<Vantrax> yep
<persia> Vantrax, Are you up for taking an action to contact the often-missing members and get them to say whether they'd be able to make one of the new meeting times?
<persia> (8:00 and 12:00, weren't they?)
<Vantrax> yes, ill do that and report back
<persia> Anyone *not* on the Asia/Oceania RMB who would like to be, or anyone who thinks someone else should be (and has confirmed that person *can*) should also contact the RMB.
<Vantrax> I think it was 0900 and 1200 UTC
<persia> If both those actions complete for next time, we'll be able to ask the CC to give us the new members, and we can meet at the new times.
<Vantrax> yes, ill get something in the fridge
<persia> 9:00 is still late in +14, but I don't think we have anyone further east than +13 in practice.
<Vantrax> maybe we will have more luck
<Vantrax> I rarely get home before 7pm aest
<Vantrax> too much earlier and ill be doing all meetings on a phone:D
<persia> Ah, so 9:00 is about as early as works.  OK.  9:00 then.
<persia> nigelb, As someone in IST, do you think 12:00 is late enough for your compatriots?  Does it need to be a bit later?
<Vantrax> earlier?
<persia> Vantrax, Just to confirm, AE{SD}T varies between +10 and +11, right?
<persia> Vantrax, I'm not expecting anyone "east" to attend the later meeting :)
<Vantrax> not for me, but yes
<nigelb> persia: hold on, let me calculate that.
<Vantrax> the southern half use daylight savings
<elky> How does the later time pan out for muslim prayer time, too. I know it's been an issue for some in SE Asia previously.
<nigelb> 12:00 UTC is 17:30 local time, which is okay.
 * persia looks up relevant prayer schedules
<elky> nigelb, isn't that commute time?
<nigelb> elky: varies, commute time is an hour more from then
<Vantrax> good point elky
<nigelb> 9:30 to 6:30 is normal office timings (at least in this city)
<persia> elky, We can't win for that.  "Sunset" and "evening" are always likely to collide a bit, unless we make it very late indeed.
<elky> persia, yeah I figured. Most of the muslim nations I think get a fair crack at EMEA anyway.
<persia> Looks like sunset in our region can be as late as 13:42
<persia> (for 2010: I didn't check past years)
<elky> I don't recall any significant meteorological bodies throwing us too far out of traditional orbit, so close enough.
<persia> Well, governments have odd ideas about time.  There are precious few places left where the sun is in at the midpoint of it's path at 12:00
<Vantrax> yeah, I notice that too
<Vantrax> its confusing sometimes
<persia> Anyway, do we have any more topics?
<elky> I don't believe so.
<elky> [ACTION] Vantrax to email current board members for commitment info
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Vantrax to email current board members for commitment info
<Vantrax> persia/elky can you send an email with action items, I'm about to head home
<elky> I guess we adjourn to list and next fortnight
<Vantrax> logs are painful on a phone:p
<persia> Sounds good to me.
<elky> I think that's the only action item actually.
<Vantrax> yay me
<elky> [ENDMEETING]
<Vantrax> ill get on to that soon
<elky> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 05:47.
<persia> I may have trouble making the next meeting, as I'll be in UTC-4, just as a warning.
<elky> persia, next meeting is UDS week?
<Vantrax> np persia, thanks for making the effort
<persia> Two weeks from today, yes?
<elky> Then I'll also be subject to being in the wrong timezone.
 * Vantrax wishes he got to go to uds
<Vantrax> maybe next time
<nigelb> ugh, uds
<Vantrax> can't even make linux.conf.au this year
<elky> nigelb, next time you won't have to argue with 'murricans.
<persia> elky, With two of us the peer-pressure might be enough to make a 6:00 meeting :)
<nigelb> elky: I just hope so :/
<elky> persia, lifeless not likely to be there?
<persia> Dunno.  He often seems to make UDSs though, so maybe three.  He's an early person too.
<elky> It's not like we're even from the same countries. We can't even just vote on moving .Au for example. So sad.
 * persia fails to be convinced that a vote is sufficient to so accelerate continental drift
<elky> persia, who cares about moving the actual landmass.
<persia> Oh, just the routing assignments?  I tend to be conservative, and want alignment between routing assignments and geographic features.
<elky> How quaint.
<ogitux> hello all
<persia> ogitux, Hey.  Meeting ended about an hour ago: it's at 10:00 UTC.  `date -u` run from a terminal will show you current UTC time.
<ogitux> :(
<ogitux> huft I was Late
<persia> Next meeting on the 26th.
<ogitux> ok thx persia
<persia> I doubt enough members of the Board are awake at this hour, really.
<ogitux> why doubt persia
<persia> Because some of them are in UTC+13 and UTC+11, so it's really late.
<ogitux> so I have not  been able to join in ubuntu member
<ogitux> persia:
<persia> Not this week, no.
<ogitux> next week yah persia
<persia> I don't happen to know offhand when the other boards meet, if you want to try one of them at an odd time, but if you want the evening meeting for Asia/Oceania, you will have to wait for the 26th.
<persia> No, week after next.
<ogitux> ok, what time persia
<persia> 10:00 UTC
<ogitux> thx
<ogitux> persia: where are u?
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20101012
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20101012
<lag> A bit premature
<lag> o/
<davidm> G'day all
<NCommander> better early than late
<davidm> true
<mpoirier> o/
 * NCommander gives everyone a moment to appear before starting properly
<lag> Tell that to my Mrs ;)
<persia> Within a few seconds is better than most meetings time themselves.
<GrueMaster> Actually, right on time.
<davidm> Good work all, 10.10 went out well, congratulations.
<lag> \o/
<NCommander> and the world didn't explode
<NCommander> I consider tha an important bonus!
<dyfet> that's tomorrow's asteroid...
<persia> Or if it did, enough was reconstructed so that the difference is inobvious from the PoV of the average developer.
<NCommander> dyfet: maybe we'll get lucky and it will only squish Redmond or something :-P
<NCommander> anyway
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] persia to close and/or postpone his remaining action items for 10.10
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia to close and/or postpone his remaining action items for 10.10
<persia> Nothing shows up on the new WI tracker.
<NCommander> [topic] ogra + davidm to determine armel+omap4 releasability and notify the release team with the result
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra + davidm to determine armel+omap4 releasability and notify the release team with the result
<ogra> long done
<ogra> since we released apparently
<NCommander> NCommander to unassign himself from bugs
<ogra> (a roll call at the begining of the meeting would have been nice btw)
 * NCommander is assigned :-)
<NCommander> *unassigned
<ogra> yeah, you were a bit over-enthusiastic :)
<ogra> i assigned the flash-kernel breakage back to you
<NCommander> I reassigned that to myself :-/
<ogra> it wasnt
<ogra> at least last night
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> d'oh
<NCommander> whoops
<ogra> well, it is now :)
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Item Review
<NCommander> I don't tihnk there's much point to go over the work trackers
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<davidm> True
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<lag>  * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<lag>    * REBASE   : ti-omap4 branch is now at Ubuntu-2.6.35-903.15
<lag>    * ON GOING : B605716 Regression from Karmic - corrected in Maverick - unsure what to do as the reporter has moved to Maverick.
<lag>    * ON GOING : B637947 Kernel/userspace issue - lag is hosting a meeting with the top ASoC people today to discuss
<lag>    * ON GOING : B535315 For some reason the net dev watchdog is timing out - more investigation needed.
<lag>    * ON GOING : B613214 Regression from Karmic - working with user to bisect.
<lag>    * ON GOING : B390959 For some reason the HID is recognising this keyboard as a joystick - more investigation needed.
<lag>    * ON GOING : B22070  Looks like a USB issue, rectified in Maverick - need to fix Lucid.
<lag>    * ON GOING : B43092  pata_pcmcia driver is not receiving correct IRQs - polling works, but was declined upstream.
<lag>    * FIXED    : B637947 Audio fixing was merged and released - still need some user space configuration to make audio fully work
<lag>    * FIXED    : B655746 HDMI bug fixing patch was merged.
<lag>    * FIXED    : B586386 ti-omap4 branch missed this fix which is required by the upstart userspace application.
<lag>    * FIXED    : B653002 An MLO patch was submitted to decrease the amount of occurence.
<lag>    * FIXED    : B592295 omapdss DISPC error: SYNC_LOST_DIGIT.
<lag>    * FIXED    : B605832 LG monitor behaving incorrectly when used in conjunction with the Panda board and HDMI.
<lag>    * FIXED    : B612895 Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at virtual address 00000000 - fix released.
<lag>    * FIXED    : B471228 Acer 5720 laptop will not wake from suspend - this issue has been rectified in Maverick.
<lag>    * INVALID  : B628029 Not a bug, suspend is just not available on this h/w yet.
<lag>    * INVALID  : B645420 Not a bug, USB OTG functionality is just not provided yet.
<lag>    * PATCH    : IGEPv2's 6 patches have been SRU'ed. (OMAP3)
<lag>    * PATCH    : The new set of ftrace patches have been submitted to linaro. (OMAP3)
<lag>    * PATCH    : Working with Vincent Rabin on the remaining "graph tracing" patches. (OM
<lag> Open those clients :)
<lag> s/open/widen
<lag> ..
<lag> Oh bottom!
 * ogra has 1080p here
<ogra> fits well
<lag> I've just realised (a lot of them aren't arm)
<persia> lag, Don't bother to fix it now.
<ogra> well, for arm we mostly care about the audio stuff
<lag> k
<persia> ogra, it's not the resolution of the screen: it's also how one *uses* the client.
<lag> Yep
<ogra> for which we have a meeting today
<lag> 2nd one down
 * persia abhors fullscreen harder
<NCommander> I think I cna mov eon
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> Images were tested with only a couple (kubuntu-mobile) seeing issues.
<GrueMaster> Work started on blueprints for UDS-N related to QA on armel.
<persia> Most kubuntu-mobile ARM folk are tweaking the image for use on N900s anyway, so that's only of moderate concern.
<ogra> what do they do with the kernel and initrd then ?
<ogra> ours wont boot
<Riddell> GrueMaster: what was the issue with kubuntu-mobile?
<ogra> and without initrd oem-config wont run
<ogra> (and they will run out of space very fast due to no resize happening)
<GrueMaster> Met with TI validation team.  Some overlap, but not much.  Their focus is on testing hardware & drivers to the maximum capabilities in a series of long test runs (over a week on dozens of systems).  Our testing is more distro completeness centric.
<persia> ogra, Dunno: ask rbelem or ian_brasil: I think there's a script that does it, and some documentation.
<ogra> persia, well, if they dont generate a new initrd and boot with it their image will be horribly broken
<GrueMaster> The kubuntu-mobile images are incomplete in that they look like a single partition, not a complete drive with partitions.
<ogra> i dont really care about running our image on n900
<persia> ogra, I have no detailed idea.
<persia> I know you don't care.  they do.
<ogra> right
<ogra> so they should ask for the right way ;)
<persia> Point being that it's not that important that GrueMaster discovered issues.
<ogra> i'm happy to give info ... but to lazy to hunt someone down
<GrueMaster> The images worked on RC.  Not sure what changed.
<persia> Won't help: N900 isn't a fully open platform.
<ogra> the kernel surely did
<persia> Anyway, enough of that.  Just a note to say that it's not a showstopper for anyone that the images weren't perfect.
<ogra> persia, they worked on beagle
<GrueMaster> No they did not.
<ogra> they stopped working on beagle with final
 * persia ran into OOM issues on beagle
<ogra> erm, where did they work then ?
<GrueMaster> kubuntu-mobile final images never worked.
<ogra> (if i say beagle blantly assume i say XM :) )
<GrueMaster> RC did.
<ogra> GrueMaster, but thats what i said
<ogra> :)
<GrueMaster> And the kubuntu omap3 testing I did complete was on beagleXM.
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> no point in testing on C4
<persia> Oh, XM worked fine.
<persia> omap4 and C4 didn't work, which doesn't matter, because the objectives are met.
<ogra> omap4 still doesnt work ?
 * ogra thought it did 
<GrueMaster> C4 and XM are the same image.  And Neither image (omap3 and omap4) worked for release.  Both worked for RC.
<ogra> k
<GrueMaster> As I am the QA guy, I know what I tested.
<ogra> geez, you keep notes ?!?
<NCommander> one would hope
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
 * ogra is overwhelmed
<dyfet> Most of the ones I did last week were also security vulnerabilities
<ogra> :)
<persia> GrueMaster, XM didn't work for release?  Ah, yeah, that's probably annoying.
<GrueMaster> persia: image was incomplete.
<GrueMaster> Compare it with a different image.  Run "file <image>" and you will see immediately what I am talking about.
<GrueMaster> No need to test it on a platform.
<persia> Ah, right.  Somehow I thought that was only the omap4 image.  Oh well.
<GrueMaster> See bug 657281
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 657281 in Ubuntu "Kubuntu Maverick on Omap3 & Omap4: screen goes black and never comes back" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657281
<GrueMaster> I added a note on the bottom detailing the issue.
 * ogra doesnt get the reboot part
<ogra> After the installation, the installer reboots the board and users are presented with the expected login prompt
<persia> Right.  I just misread your comment.
<ogra> i dont get what was tested there
<ogra> none of omap3 or 4 images reboot after the installer was run
<persia> ogra, The description is kinda painful, mostly because it's second-hand.
<ogra> ah
<persia> Basically, jasper works, boot works, oem-config works, reboot doesn't work.
<ogra> well, i dont get why mpoirier couldnt file it himself either
<GrueMaster> mpoirier ran the test and reported to marjo (instead of filing the bug himself).
<persia> For that matter, even trying to log in post oem-config doesn't work on a C4 (but that's for OOM reasons)
<ogra> right
<ogra> right, screw C4
<mpoirier> I didn't file 'cause I thought someone would look at it right away...
 * ogra wants an official note that we dont support it in natty
<mpoirier> ask questions if you need more info.
<GrueMaster> File bugs so we can.
<ogra> right
<ogra> that bug wasnt triaged at all
<ogra> i only heard about it when the final images were done already
<persia> Indeed.
<ogra> in fact it still isnt
<persia> mpoirier, Please always file bugs.  Nobody will look at anything that isn't findable.
<ogra> and triage them properly
<mpoirier> it was friday before the release and the QA team was on.
<ogra> (subscribe ubuntu-armel and add an armel tag if we should look at it)
<mpoirier> the kubuntu was supposed to be waiting.
<persia> mpoirier, Doesn't matter.  We're all responsible for everything, as much as we specialise.  We can't expect anyone else to know what we mean, so we need to work with LP ourselves.
<ogra> mpoirier, well, we would probably still have had time to fix it
<ogra> we all returned saturday there was time for a respin
<ogra> anyway
 * persia only heard about it *late* saturday night.
 * ogra heard about it late saturday night 
<ogra> too
 * NCommander didn't see see any chatter in u-release until it was too late about it unfortunately :-/
<ogra> sat. morning would have given us the time needed
<persia> Anyway: problem was one person submitting information to another person.
<ogra> anyway, move
<ogra> NCommander,
<persia> We need to put stuff in LP, and notify teams and channels
<ogra> ^^
<persia> (yes, move)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<ogra> well, its over ;)
<dyfet> I feel dajavu
<NCommander> maverick shipped with 81 FTBFS total
<ogra> unless you have SRUs
<ogra> cool
<ogra> 81 isnt as bad as former releases
<persia> In fact, it's the best ever.
<dyfet> the ones i focused on last week were also security related...
<NCommander> maybe we can get it to 0 for natty ;_)
<ogra> NCommander, if we get doko proper hardware i'm sure of that
<ogra> davidm, doko urgently needs a panda
<persia> http://skitterman.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/ftbfs-final-score/ was a bit of a nice thing to see
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://skitterman.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/ftbfs-final-score/ was a bit of a nice thing to see
<ogra> doko did the heaviest lifting on ftbfs within teh last weeks i have seen yet
<davidm> ogra, as they become available we can get him one
<ogra> davidm, he should get the first one we recieve ;)
<davidm> nothing we can do until they go into GA
<ogra> from the new chunk
<ogra> understood
<NCommander> yay
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra> virtually they would be fine if they would exist :)
<ogra> no natty images yet
<ogra> we're all slackers !
 * GrueMaster blames the beer.
<ogra> maverick images were fine apart from the sound issues
 * NCommander smacks ogra 
<persia> And the Kubuntu-mobile issues Gruemaster discovered.
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> so for kubuntu, i want a clear definition for natty what will be supported and what we will build
<ogra> and a want a *gaurantee* that there are *community* testers
<NCommander> [action] ogra to follow up with kubuntu-dev with the images to build for natty
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to follow up with kubuntu-dev with the images to build for natty
<ogra> at UDS
<NCommander> :-)
 * ogra wants to have a BOF for that
<ogra> no need for an action
<ogra> rather a spec :)
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to draft kubuntu image spec
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to draft kubuntu image spec
<ogra> i dont want to be hammered with kubuntu testing requests from QA the last minute before release becuase the community has no HW
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<ogra> specs ?
<dyfet> posting status?
<persia> ogra, http://projects.powerdeveloper.org/project/imx515/801 should help in the HW department for Kubutnu
<ogra> persia, with what ?
<ogra> we dont support imx5*
<ogra> i only care about image testing for the official images here
<persia> What you support and what are images are only tangentially related.  I don't suggest you should support that, but it ought mean less demand for Kubutnu images for arbitrary pre-availability development boards, which ought make less demand on you.
<ogra> and for these i expect a minimum of HW to be available by the community that asks me to build their images, else i wont build them
<ogra> and i want a guarantee in advance at UDS that this testing can happen
<persia> I'm in favour of a spec: just noting that you may find less hard requirements on yourself.
<ogra> well, if we build images i want them tested
<persia> And so you should.
<ogra> if they cant be tested i wont build them
<persia> Right.  Let's have a spec about this.
<ogra> yeah
<NCommander> Minimal requirements for us to spin images?
<davidm> need blueprints this week
<persia> I know that lots of the -testing crowd was unhappy with image validation because of lack of hardware.
<ogra> and invire QA, TI and the KDE community
<persia> NCommander, No.  Verification that we actually have testers with hardware for each image built.
<ogra> NCommander, no, specific for kubuntu
<persia> ogra, Please no.  Other flavours might want it, etc.
<ogra> persia, well, we dont build for other flavours atm
<persia> Let's just set up a chart, and make sure we have volunteers for everywhere.
<NCommander> ogra: what if xubuntu/mythbuntu/* want images on arm?
<davidm> I think the hardware issues will get sorted this cycle, the community should have their own hardware this cycle.
<ogra> they are free to show up in the sessio and raise their hands
<persia> ogra, Right.  "atm" is the reason for my objection :)
<ogra> davidm, i want a written down list of stuff that can be testedd and the safety that our team doesnt have to do it in the end
<ogra> sure the HW situation will be better, but people still have to buy it or find a sponsor
<GrueMaster> ogra: Add to that a guarantee from our hw suppliers that we won't need to show up at the last minute for new hw.
<persia> ogra, You probably also want some agreement from the cdimage team that they won't enable arbitrary other images on platforms with limited HW availability without confirming testers.
<NCommander> [topic] ogra + persia to take this converation (on community ARM hardware) offline, and report back at UDS
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra + persia to take this converation (on community ARM hardware) offline, and report back at UDS
<ogra> persia, i can agree to that as a member of that team :)
<persia> NCommander, Please reset that action to be to bring a spec to UDS about it.
<ogra> right
<persia> ogra, Right, but you need to confirm with everyone else on the team too :)
<ogra> more on specs ?
<ogra> davidm, by when, friday ?
<ogra> or earlier ?
<NCommander> [topic] ogra + persia to take this converation (on  community ARM hardware) offline
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra + persia to take this converation (on  community ARM hardware) offline
<NCommander> bah
<NCommander> [topic] ogra + persia to take this converation (on   community ARM hardware) offline
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra + persia to take this converation (on   community ARM hardware) offline
<NCommander> ...
<ogra> NCommander, stop playing with the bot :O
<NCommander> ^- and make a spec on it
<NCommander> I'm having copy and paste failures due to hidious lag
<davidm> ogra, as much as can be done by Friday, UDS scheduling needs to get done
<ogra> ok, friday it is then
<NCommander> GrueMaster's DSL modem ishaving seizures
<persia> davidm, Should folk wanting to schedule stuff just set you as approver, or something different?
<davidm> And the areas are different so we nned to submut them ASAP
<GrueMaster> No, it isn't
<NCommander> davidm: UDS-N doesn't exist as a target to put specs against.
<davidm> persia, that is the main issue I am not a scheduler this UDS
<ogra> uh
<davidm> though "technically" I can do it
<ogra> who is ?
<persia> Aha.
<davidm> I'll get the list to you all today for each section
<ogra> davidm, but you're an approver for our workitems still, right ?
<ogra> i.e. we put you in for approving
<davidm> We don't have an ARM track just the general announced tracks that our Blueprints go into
<ogra> yes
<persia> I've been told http://ubuntudevelopers.blip.tv/file/3539348/ explains the correct method.
<ogra> i'm not talking about UDS
<davidm> ogra yes for workitems I am the approver
<ogra> good
<davidm> ogra, in that sense you are correct
<NCommander> davidm: (I can't select UDS-N as the sprint)
<davidm> NCommander, I'll see when that opens
<davidm> I would have thought today but perhaps tomorrow
<davidm> There was an announcment on naming, so make sure you follow the requirements
<NCommander> davidm: thanks davidm
<davidm> Or you will have to rename to match later (which is a pain)
<persia> NCommander, Next?
<ogra> an annoouncement on naming ?
<NCommander> [topic] Specification Dicussion]
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Dicussion]
 * ogra missed that
<ogra> can anyone summarize here ?
<persia> ogra, $track-$team-n-$whatever
<ogra> and $tarck is the new tarck naming scheme ?
<ogra> *track
<persia> $team is some one-word string for the WI tracker.  $track is from summit.ubuntu.com $whatever is freeform.
<ogra> right, thanks
<ogra> and -n- not -natty-
<ogra> k
<persia> Right -n-
<ogra> thanks
<persia> davidm, If you have a preference for $team you want to impose, you may want to dictate something for your team to use :)
<ogra> -arm- indeed
<persia> Works.
<persia> OK.  Next?
<ogra> i need to adjust the WI tacker for it
<ogra> past UDS though
<ogra> we're still mobile there
<NCommander> Anything else to bring up? I'm realy to close out the meeting soonish
<ogra> NCommander, always in a hurry eh ?
<davidm> persia, we are the ARM team
<ogra> just a big thank you to the team, well done for maverick :)
<davidm> I'll echo that most strongly, thanks for the great work.
<persia> davidm, Thought so: just wanted verification, as (as ogra pointed out) "mobile" was used for maverick.
<davidm> NCommander, close it down
<davidm> persia, true but we are now more accurately named ;-P
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:55.
<persia> Indeed :)
<simar> #ubuntu-bugs
<lag> o/
<kees> \o
<mdeslaur> hello
<jdstrand> \o
<nxvl> hi
<mdeslaur> sbeattie?
<sbeattie> hey
<mdeslaur> kees: you get to start
 * mdeslaur pokes kees with stick
<kees> hi!
<kees> sorry, got distracted
<kees> I'm doing audits this week, and helping the kernel get published some more.
<kees> that's really it from me. mdeslaur! :)
<mdeslaur> ok :)
<mdeslaur> I'm currently building webkit 1.2.5 for karmic, lucid, maverick
<mdeslaur> that's what I plan to do this week. I'll pick something up from the CVE list of I have time left.
<mdeslaur> that's it!
<kees> yay for webkit!
<mdeslaur> jdstrand?
<jdstrand> I am working on python-django, all mozilla products and libvirt
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I've got an openjdk update going on this week, as well as triage.
<sbeattie> that's it for me.
<mdeslaur> cool
<mdeslaur> does anyone have anything to discuss with the security team?
<kees> ETIMEOUT
<kees> thanks mdeslaur!
<mdeslaur> hehe
<smoser> o/
<hallyn> \o
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<jiboumans_> o/
<SpamapS> \o\
<jjohansen> o/
<zul> afternoon
<ttx> \\o
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
<ttx> nice hat, dude
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<Daviey> o/
 * ttx has mild connectivity issues, don't worry if I disapeear from the face of the Internet for a few minutes.
 * hggdh bows to ttx
<SpamapS> well then, shall we?
<SpamapS> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:00. The chair is SpamapS.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<SpamapS> I see no action points from the previous meeting, so we'll move forward to...
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Postmortem for Maverick (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Postmortem for Maverick (ttx)
<ttx> hm, there was some action points though
<ttx>   * ACTION: mathiaz to send out a call for ideas on ubuntu to the
<ttx> puppet community
<ttx>   * ACTION: smoser to get skaet info on how to publish EC2 images
<ttx>   * ACTION:  Everyone to celebrate the 10.10.10 release in their own unique ways
<SpamapS> Right, they didn't make it into the agenda...
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] review action points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  review action points from previous meeting
<ttx> SpamapS: probably the chair didn't copy them there :P
<SpamapS> I didn't see an email from mathiaz..
<SpamapS> and he is at hadoop world
<jiboumans_> let's follow up with him afterwards
<ttx> seeing fat elephants
<SpamapS> so will carry that one forward unless somebody else saw the email?
<jiboumans_> i didn't see the mail either
<SpamapS> [ACTION] mathiaz to send out a call for ideas on ubuntu to the puppet community (carry over)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to send out a call for ideas on ubuntu to the puppet community (carry over)
<kim0> can I help with that
 * smoser did get skaet info on how to do that, but still had to wake up sunday morning to help (due to my own mistakes). so 'Done'
<SpamapS> smoser: assuming you were able to instruct skaet on EC2 image publishing :)
<SpamapS> sweet.
<ttx> kim0: maybe, see with mathiaz
<Daviey> smoser: Was kinda scary at one point :)
<ttx> a bit scary.
<smoser> bah
<smoser> not scary
<smoser> everything was under control :)
<SpamapS> I celebrated by wearing my 101010 shirt and yelling at the TV whenever the Cowboys fumbled.
<ttx> SpamapS: you got a 101010 shirt ?
<zul> i killed a bird to celebrate
<SpamapS> ttx: not a 1 or 0, an old 101010 shirt from the 2005 Sysadmin of The Year Contest (I was nominated.. did not win.. too nerdy I presume)
<ttx> ah
<SpamapS> Ok, moving on
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Postmortem for Maverick (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Postmortem for Maverick (ttx)
<ttx> So you should have a look at your Maverick specs, and close them as "Implemented" or "Deferred"
<SpamapS> [ACTION] ALL to mark maverick assigned specs as "Implemented" or Deferred
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ALL to mark maverick assigned specs as "Implemented" or Deferred
<ttx> also we need to keep a special eye on Maverick bugs
<ttx> I expect people to stumble upon critical bugs once the release is out
<ttx> so we need to stay ready for SRUs
<ttx> I already noted two candidates
<ttx> Bug 658227 and bug 600174
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 658227 in openldap (Ubuntu) "upgrade process does not upgrade underlying BDB format from 4.7 to 4.8 (so slapd aborts with "Program version 4.8 doesn't match environment version 4.7" error message)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/658227
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600174 in axis2c (Ubuntu Maverick) "axis2c fails to build from source on maverick/i386" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600174
<ttx> The first one being kinda urgent
<ttx> I hoped mathiaz would be around to pick it up
<ttx> but he is not, so it's free game
<Daviey> Second one.. really needs 'fixing'.. but i was going to propose not being uploaded unless axis2c needs uploading for another reason
<ttx> Daviey: agreed
<Daviey> ie, backport from natty i guess.
<ttx> anything else that you saw in daily triage that you think is a maverick regression ?
<Daviey> no
<ttx> if not, that's all for mavreick, rest in peace, long live Natty
<Daviey> \o/
<SpamapS> There's a comment on bug 607646 that claims it may have caused a regression, but no actual bug report with details that I've seen yet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 607646 in php5 (Ubuntu) "Segmentation fault in PHP5 with pgsql module" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/607646
<ttx> SpamapS: ok, you can move on
<SpamapS> Ok, on to Natty?
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Natty development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty development
<ttx> Natty will open soon
<ttx> and with it the season of syncs/merges
<ttx> that's the process of merging the changes in debian, or syncing to the version in debian
<ttx> if the newcomers need any light on the process, please ask one of the old-timers.
<ttx> Deferring to jiboumans for Natty planning
<RoAkSoAx> will a list of merges be published?
<SpamapS> From what I understand, maverick had a fairly low percentage of pending merges completed.. so we may have a big backlog.
<ttx> SpamapS: server looked not too bad.
<zul> RoAkSoAx: merges.ubuntu.com
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx: nothing server specific, but https://merges.ubuntu.com is always a good resource.
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: in MoM, then maybe we'll come up with a server seed crossection
<RoAkSoAx> lo. i know that but I meant server specific merges
<zul> RoAkSoAx: i also have a python script if you want
<SpamapS> 298 outstanding merges in main
<RoAkSoAx>  :)
<zul> SpamapS: we arent doing all that
<zul> ;)
<RoAkSoAx> zul: for server specific?
<zul> RoAkSoAx: yep
<RoAkSoAx> zul: ok cool:)
<zul> RoAkSoAx: just bug me about it after the meeting ill try to find it for you
<RoAkSoAx> ok thanks :)
<ttx> SpamapS: moving on
<SpamapS> Oh no specs?
<ttx> SpamapS: that's jiboumans's subject
<ttx> though I can fill in if he dropped
<SpamapS> jiboumans_: Natty specs preparation (jib)
<jiboumans_> The time for creating blueprints for UDS sessions is upon us; looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/NattyIdeaPool we have a lot to go on. Right now, only blueprints for topics that you think warrant discussion at UDS are needed to be created; try to group similar topics in a way that makes a good session and list them as part of the "UDS" Section under the right track and remove them from the idea pool. That should be doable for everyone somew
<jiboumans_> this week I think.
<ttx> ELINETOOLONG
<jiboumans_> try to group similar topics in a way that makes a good session and list them as part of the "UDS" Section under the right track and remove them from the idea pool. That should be doable for everyone somewhere this week I think.
<jiboumans_> Any items left in the idea pool after this week are ideally then items that don't need discussion and we can move those to blueprints at a later date just to track implementation. Any questions about next steps?
<SpamapS> Ok, going once...
<SpamapS> jiboumans_: thanks, moving on..
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> ok
<hggdh> we are now phasing out the 'regression-potential' tag
<hggdh> please use only regression-release or regression-proposed or regression-updates as needed
<ttx> ok
<ttx> who looks at those ?
<hggdh> we  -- QA/bugSquad will look at all current bugs set with -potential, and will update them
<ttx> ack
<hggdh> the docs and the LP greasemonkey scripts will be updated also
<hggdh> apart from that, nothing new on the western front
<SpamapS> Anything else for QA?
<SpamapS> On to the kernel then..
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> I don't have anything I want to bring up
<jjohansen> smoser: what do you have for me :)
<smoser> hm..
<smoser> 2 things.
<Daviey> heh
<smoser> 1. lucid load, i've beeen promised a fix like 2 weeks ago
<jjohansen> is that still not in?
<smoser> (ok, promised was a strong word, but given suggestion that it would be fixed, i relayed in bug)
<smoser> there is no udpate to the bug
<smoser> 2.) maverick issue bug 658461
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 658461 in linux (Ubuntu) "-virtual kernel missing dependent modules (ahci fails to load)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/658461
<jjohansen> I did the rebase, that was blocking and tested, and handed it back to brad and steve
<smoser> well, there is no 'fix-released' comment in the bug. so i'm not aware of it.
<jjohansen> smoser: right I would expect them to update the bug when the pushed the rebase, I'll look into it
<smoser> we also have bug 634487. which i would really like to see fixed in lucid and maverick.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 634487 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "t1.micro instance hangs when installing sun java" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634487
<SpamapS> [ACTION] jjohansen to look into virtual kernel bug status (bug 658461)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jjohansen to look into virtual kernel bug status (bug 658461)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 658461 in linux (Ubuntu) "-virtual kernel missing dependent modules (ahci fails to load)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/658461
<jjohansen> thanks, I'll try to take a look at it this week
<SpamapS> smoser: I thought that was an issue on amazon's side?
<SpamapS> or was that the reboot issues?
<jjohansen> SpamapS: may be
<smoser> SpamapS, there was a data corruption bug on amazon's side for user-data.
<SpamapS> ok
<smoser> the java bug is definitely a kernel bug (imho).  a user space process makes kernel go crazy
<smoser> or crash
<SpamapS> ok, anything else?
<SpamapS> jjohansen: did you want a single action item to look into both of those bugs?
<jjohansen> SpamapS: it could be our kernel trying to use unsupported pv-ops
<jjohansen> SpamapS: sure
<SpamapS> [ACTION] jjohansen to look into bug 658461
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jjohansen to look into bug 658461
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 658461 in linux (Ubuntu) "-virtual kernel missing dependent modules (ahci fails to load)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/658461
<SpamapS> ok I'll fold it in to one in the minutes
<zul> pv-ops is funnn..
<SpamapS> moving on to documentation
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<Daviey> We miss sommer!
<SpamapS> oh didn't see that he wasn't here
<SpamapS> ok.. did anybody else have documentation issues they'd like to have relayed to sommer?
<ttx> SpamapS: no
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<kim0> o/
<kim0> hey folks .. I'd just like to draw attention of OpenWeek. Find the schedule at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<kim0> I'm giving a cloud basics session tomorrow 16:00UTC, I will be demo'ing cloud-init and answering basic questions. Dustin, will be giving a session after it on deploying web apps to the cloud
<kim0> Other than that, I had sent out a call for contributers, I have around 8 people who want to start contributing to ubuntu-server (Yaaay). I'll be talking to Jono tomorrow on how to best get them involved and any mentoring needed. Any volunteers to help with the process are most welcome
<kim0> That should be all
 * kirkland waves
<SpamapS> kim0: thanks!
<SpamapS> and now to everyone's favorite topic
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<RoAkSoAx> I you haven't read so already, I've successfully setup HA for the UEC-CLC using the cluster stack (pacemaker, heartbeat) and DRBD for replication between CLC's. Everything seems to working as expected. I'll blog post about it later this week when I finish midterms. I'm planning to discuss this at UDS (If Cluster Stack Session get's scheduled).
 * SpamapS will be holding a cluster stack session on the beach if it doesn't get scheduled at UDS
 * hallyn registers for that one
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx: You rock! :)
<SpamapS> Indeed.. cluster FTW :)
<SpamapS> ok, if nobody else has anything?
<SpamapS> Ok then
<ttx> SpamapS: according to my wife, I snored last night. Bad news for you.
<Daviey> \o/
<SpamapS> ttx: only if yours overpowers mine
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<ttx> aaaargh
<SpamapS> Next meeting will be Tuesday 2010-10-19 at 1800 UTC - here in #ubuntu-meeting
<SpamapS> thanks everyone!
<Daviey> o/
<SpamapS> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:32.
<RoAkSoAx> \o
<ttx> SpamapS: yay
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-13
<MichealH-iPod> Is the BT meeting on?
<malev> MichealH, I though that too
<MichealH-iPod> It's 23:12 UTC
<MichealH-iPod> Hrmm?
<pedro3005> sorry I'm late
<pedro3005> am I late?
<MichealH-iPod> Nope
<MichealH-iPod> We haven't even started
<pedro3005> good
<duanedesign> ;lo all
<Mohan_chml> o/
<MichealH-iPod> o/
<collinp> Yo.
<duanedesign> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:35. The chair is duanedesign.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<duanedesign> good day all
<MichealH-iPod> Hi duanedesign
<Mohan_chml> Hola duanedesign
<duanedesign> [TOPIC] wiki update for new theme
<MootBot> New Topic:  wiki update for new theme
<collinp> I apologize, I'll be drifting in and out for most of the meeting, as there are things happening IRL currently around me.
<duanedesign> mr cprofitt has started on redesigning our wiki to fit the new theme
 * nhandler thanks cprofitt for taking on this task
<duanedesign> the new theme , as far i know, is set to go live tom
<duanedesign> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam
<nhandler> We just need to make sure that whatever theme we go with is still usable with other wiki themes. i.e. I use a Kubuntu wiki theme
<MichealH-iPod> Yup
<duanedesign> that is a good point
<duanedesign> Saji has worked on this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki
<phillw> As non-official, we use a lubuntu header, but I've seen that the proposed one does not work.
<MichealH-iPod> I could do the Launchpadm
<duanedesign> it uses a look that is more 'nuetral'
<duanedesign> phillw: what does not work?
<phillw> it does not center, there is a bug report against it which I confirmed.
<duanedesign> ahh
<Mohan_chml> phillw: your team is working on it?
<phillw> Mohan_chml: we are not using the new ubuntu theme.
<MichealH-iPod> Phillw: it could be a syntax error/markup error?
 * phillw give me a moment to go through my logs and find the bug report, then you can see for yourselves.
<duanedesign> (a)lanbell is working on some bug fixes. His latest code is available at http://libertus.co.uk:8080/BeginnersTeam
<duanedesign> if you wanted to test our page^
<duanedesign> for example.
<duanedesign> so we should test our wiki as nhandler suggests.
<Mohan_chml> Agreed
<MichealH-iPod> Like a trial basis
<phillw> nhandler: was it you who asked me to confirm the bug?
<duanedesign> zkreisse has offered to help with this topic as well
<Mohan_chml> Our wiki FG can help at anytime :)
<duanedesign> anyone interested in working on that. Should be fairly straight forward.
<phillw> zkreisse is a good lad,. If you need art work, then I may be able to kidnap our art person on the lubuntu team.
<MichealH-iPod> Anything with Launchpad I am happy to do...
<Mohan_chml> I will help zkreisse
<duanedesign> ok great
<nhandler> phillw: I didn't ask you to confirm anything
<duanedesign> there are a couple of threads already going on the mailinglist to report your findings :)
<duanedesign> [ACTION] mohan and zkreisse will look at the new theme on various *buntu wiki to help team make a final decision
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mohan and zkreisse will look at the new theme on various *buntu wiki to help team make a final decision
<Mohan_chml> At your service =]
<duanedesign> [TOPIC] Review List Of Prospective Members In Need Of Mentor
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review List Of Prospective Members In Need Of Mentor
<duanedesign> I think silverfox is going to be helping us in the future with our mentor program. You may remember  a couple meetings ago we asked for volunteers for a Mentor Admin
<duanedesign> i think this will help us a lot to improve the quality of our mentor program.
<Mohan_chml> yes and FYI, I saw people adding their name in our wiki but when they are said to come to Our channel in IRC, they are not. We already informed all the people needing mentors to come to our channel. We have to change/add some rules that they should make their presence in #ubuntu-beginners
<nhandler> Agreed. Having someone keeping this on track will be good
<duanedesign> Mohan_chml: yes. Our sessions in -classroom have also brought an influx of users wanting to join BT. Specifically they are interested in -dev
<duanedesign> some of them have not added there name to the prospect seeking mentor list
<duanedesign> so both are good points were someone keeping on top of this will be beneficial
<duanedesign> looking at the list now
<Mohan_chml> But they are visiting -dev more and they are enquiring about development and that is a good news. Thanks to pedro3005 and other staffs
<duanedesign> yes the community at large has been very interesteed in increasing the participation of developers in Ubuntu
<duanedesign> another place the BT could really make a difference \o/
<MichealH-iPod> Yup \o/
<Mohan_chml> for sure =]
<duanedesign> the list of prospect seeking mentors is a little old
<MichealH-iPod> Just today I was thinking of a Q&A session every month or so
<MichealH-iPod> Hard questions --> -beginners
<duanedesign> those folks signed up, If i am remembering correctly, and have not really followed through
<Mohan_chml> My suggestion is, "we can send a mail(final one) to those people to come to IRC, if they are really interested"
<duanedesign> Mohan_chml: i agree, that is a good idea
<MichealH-iPod> And to see of they even signed up to the lists :P
<Mohan_chml> and we have one more applicant who didn't add his name in the page but sent a mail to our mailings list.Brandon Tomlinson with the nick thebwt
<duanedesign> also we can go through the mailing list for the last two months and try and contact those that sent hello letters and never put name on wiki
<Mohan_chml> His wiki is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/thebwt
<duanedesign> would be good for us to do this and help silverfox start with a clean slate :)
<Mohan_chml> He mentioned about BT-dev \o/
 * phillw is willing to take on a "trainee", 
<duanedesign> great
<phillw> depends if you guys wish me to do so.
<Mohan_chml> phillw: thebwt https://wiki.ubuntu.com/thebwt is there in BT now also =]
<Mohan_chml> check out his time and rock it on phillw =]
<phillw> Mohan_chml: I'd be proud to do so.
<Mohan_chml> (:
<MichealH-iPod> I currently have a mentor heh
<duanedesign> [ACTION] duanedesign will contact those on prospect seeking mentor list. Also contact community members who have sent hello letter to ML but not signed up on prospect seeking mentor list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  duanedesign will contact those on prospect seeking mentor list. Also contact community members who have sent hello letter to ML but not signed up on prospect seeking mentor list
<duanedesign> MichealH-iPod: who is that?
<phillw> I tried to contact https://wiki.ubuntu.com/kdotj but have not had a response.
<Mohan_chml> And I have a suggestion. We should identify the mentors good in programming(mentioning what they are good with) in our wiki and we can tell people to contact them
<MichealH-iPod> cprofitt
<duanedesign> MichealH-iPod: ahh good one
<duanedesign> :)
<MichealH-iPod> :)
<Mohan_chml> Okay then. we can remove kdotl from our wiki
<Mohan_chml> kdotj*
<duanedesign> the mentor/ prospect relationship is a great opportunity to make good friends. I have stayed close to all my prospects(padawans)
<Mohan_chml> Silver_Fox missed this meeting and One should be reporting him to start working on the mentors list
 * phillw can do GMT or +5 hours as my shift patterns.
<Mohan_chml> +1 duanedesign
<phillw> +1 duanedesign I still nag nhandler to death :)
<Mohan_chml> lol
<duanedesign> Mohan_chml: good idea. i did touch base with SF the other day on this but i will do so again to let SF know we are going to try and clear out the queue to offer clean slate
<Mohan_chml> phillw: we need nhandler. do not make him run away :P
<nhandler> :)
<phillw> SF has not been well, he's getting better. But like the stubborn ox he is; he did not tell anyone.
<duanedesign> :(
<Mohan_chml> :o
<duanedesign> ok moving on
<malev> I'm sorry, what is SF?
<duanedesign> [TOPIC] Request Status Update From All Mentors
<MootBot> New Topic:  Request Status Update From All Mentors
<duanedesign> malev: silverfox
<duanedesign> :)
<malev> COOL
<duanedesign> ill go first
<duanedesign> my prospects malev and km0r3 are doing great
<duanedesign> the membership process has been in a state of 'change; for a little bit now
<duanedesign> the council is working hard to finalize all membership requirments so there is no confusion
<duanedesign> i appreciatte all prospects patience during this time
<duanedesign> we are going to require all mentors to update monthly by meeting or ML to the mentor admin (silverfox)
<nhandler> But keep in mind, just because you are not an official member does not mean you are unable to participate in team activities/contribute
<duanedesign> absolutely
<Mohan_chml> +1
<malev> excelent!
<MichealH-iPod> I am not a member but look at me!
<duanedesign> anyone else with a padawan that wants to comment
<Mohan_chml> p/
<Mohan_chml> aww o/* typo :P
 * phillw has a prospective member, but not ready to propose him yet.
<duanedesign> sounds good phillw
<phillw> but that is for full ubuntu membership, not just UBT
<duanedesign> no one is up for voting
<duanedesign> right now
<Mohan_chml> My prospect JoeMavericksett is doing awesome in helping in BT as well as #ubuntu. I am making him learn about all and he is enjoying learning new stuff daily. I am putting up the schedules for him to what to learn and I am testing him how far he learnt.
<Mohan_chml> and I am also knowing new daily =]
<duanedesign> i have seen joemaverick around in -team and it has been nice getting to know him/her
<Mohan_chml> Him :)
<phillw> Mohan_chml: If he is helping, and doung it well, then he deserves membership of UBT
<duanedesign> anyone want to volunteer with Post-Meeting Tasks
<duanedesign> update team rerport, wiki with next meeting date
<phillw> duanedesign: hit me with one, and I will do it.
 * Mohan_chml hits phillw with a chair 
<duanedesign> phillw: have you done a team report before
 * phillw wiki is me :)
<duanedesign> Mohan_chml: :)
<MichealH-iPod> I could do one
<duanedesign> phillw: ok. if you have any questions me or nhandler can probably help
<phillw> yeah, I did, but a while back. For lubuntu
<duanedesign> MichealH-iPod: #
<duanedesign> Update Next meeting time on the wiki
<nhandler> Yep, I have no issue helping (just don't have time to do it myself right now)
<Mohan_chml> MichealH: you support phillw with your ideas
<duanedesign> how about that one MichealH-iPod
<Mohan_chml> MichealH-iPod: ^
<MichealH-iPod> What one?
<Mohan_chml> <duanedesign> Update Next meeting time on the wiki
<duanedesign> MichealH-iPod: just update the meeting header on wiki with date of next meeting
<MichealH-iPod> Okay
<Mohan_chml> MichealH-iPod: and help phillw in writing team report :)
<MichealH-iPod> Where do I find the header?
<duanedesign> MichealH-iPod: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Includes/Bulletin
<MichealH-iPod> Okay
<duanedesign> i will send minutes to the ML
<duanedesign> i have to go all, sorry to stop so ubruptly
<phillw> was  it decided to remove https://wiki.ubuntu.com/kdotj from the mentoring list, sorry but I'm also on lubuntu support area.
<MichealH-iPod> When is next meeting?
<duanedesign> phillw: i think we will send a finale email. Oh wait yu did that?
<duanedesign> MichealH-iPod: second tuesday of next month
<duanedesign> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:24.
<duanedesign> ok all i will be back in 30 minutes have a real world issue and must scoot
<MichealH-iPod> duanedesign: I can't really bring up my calendar on this so can you tell me
 * Mohan_chml takes the chair and hits phillw, when duanedesign gets off from it
<phillw> duanedesign: I have only added my self as willing mentor, not deleted anyone. I sent him an email a couple of days ago and have not had a response.
<duanedesign> MichealH-iPod: nov 9
<MichealH-iPod> Thanks
<duanedesign> see you all in #ubuntu-beginners-team
<Mohan_chml> cya duanedesign
<duanedesign> thank you for coming to the meeting!
<MichealH-iPod> Done
<MichealH-iPod> Is it okay
<MichealH-iPod> duanedesign: ^^
<Mohan_chml> MichealH-iPod: Yes okay :)
<MichealH-iPod> Thanks
<jj-afk> jjohansen
<highvoltage> â Edubuntu Meeting Time!
 * stgraber waves and then pokes mgariepy 
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> Agenda for this meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<highvoltage> was only slightly updated for this meeting, mostly recycled from old meetings :)
<highvoltage> Vikram wanted to talk about his documentation ideas today but seems that he couldn't make it.
<stgraber> anyone here who's not in a 2m radius from me ?
<stgraber> hey alkisg
<czajkowski> me
<alkisg> Hi stgraber, hi all
<highvoltage> Susan suggested that we have a meeting at another time but she never actually suggested a time
<highvoltage> so maybe next week
<highvoltage> I guess it's also pretty much pointless to announce here that we've released Edubuntu 10.10 over the weekend \o/
<alkisg> Congrats! :)
<highvoltage> (right at 10:10 on 10/10/10)
<highvoltage> The next release is 11.04 (Natty Narwhal), release schedule here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
<highvoltage> so UDS is at 25 October
<highvoltage> The first Alpha is on 2 December
<highvoltage> we missed the first alpha for lucid *and* maverick
<highvoltage> let's not do that again :)
<highvoltage> otherwise maverick was a pretty good release, thanks to everyone involved with that
<stgraber> as long as they don't break our langpacks, we should be fine ;)
<highvoltage> Edubuntu's position on distrowatch is increasing. It was taken off from the site when edubuntu became an add-on Cd
<highvoltage> since it wasn't technically a Linux distribution per se anymore
<highvoltage> it's been added when we switched back to DVD mode
<highvoltage> for the filter for 'last 7 days', we're at #27, which puts it higher than FreeBSD!
<highvoltage> http://distrowatch.com/index.php?dataspan=1
<highvoltage> (in the old days it used to be consistantly above FreeBSD)
<highvoltage> we started our facebook page a bit more than a month ago, it already has more than 250 fans
<stgraber> we also have 108 followers on twitter and 39 on identica
<highvoltage> I put together a new installation guide for Edubuntu 10.10: http://edubuntu.org/documentation/10.10/installation-guide
<highvoltage> I posted it out to the list and received some feedback and fixed up a bit, but further feedback is always welcome
<highvoltage> jbicha suggested that I add an explanation of what LTSP is somewhere in there. that's the only feedback I got that isn't yet applied
<highvoltage> anything we should add to the agenda before moving on? we don't exactly have a very busy meeting today :)
 * stgraber doesn't think so
<stgraber> (still reading installation-guide)
<highvoltage> this is an old idea that has been discussed a few times in the past, but due to not really getting any clear answers from Canonical on whether we can go ahead, we never did: http://edubuntu.org/marketplace
<highvoltage> the idea with the edubuntu marketplace is that people who build services and products around Edubuntu can list themselves on the site
<highvoltage> similar to the Ubuntu marketplace on http://webapps.ubuntu.com/marketplace/
<highvoltage> we're going ahead with it, if we step on any toes someone can just scream then
<highvoltage> except for revolution linux, I just took the liberty of adding the rest of them there, so I'll contact them and confirm that they do indeed want to be listed, and also which details they'd like on there
<highvoltage> once I've done that, we can link to it from the rest of the site and announce it
<highvoltage> stgraber: do you have any suggestions regarding the contact address for that?
<stgraber> highvoltage: not sure ... I can probably create an alias on some random domain or try to get one from Canonical IS
<highvoltage> an alias sounds ideal
<highvoltage> I suppose something generic like contact@edubuntu.org would be ok?
<stgraber> yep
<highvoltage> it probably won't necessarilly be the EC that would always be responsible for that
<highvoltage> dinda wanted to discuss a blueprint, but she didn't make it today either (I guess she's still traveling)
<highvoltage> so that's probably it for this meeting, unless anyone else has something?
<stgraber> nothing here
<highvoltage> ok, adjourned!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-14
<bilalakhtar> Oh a netsplit!
<thorwil> mpt: what do you think about http://www.foopics.com/showfull/c7e1ce704b9de523e51ec5d4a3569003
<JanCBorchardt> thorwil: do you know http://picasaweb.google.com/100804433705878937883/Mockups# â what about them?
<thorwil> JanCBorchardt: yes, i know them. associates the transport controls more with the track, less with the player. smaller targets, further away from the menu icon
<mpt> thorwil, it reduces the number of visible columns, which is good. The playback control layout is consistent with Rhythmbox and VLC, but inconsistent with Banshee, Totem, Decibel, and Exaile.
<thorwil> JanCBorchardt: my actual thoughts are http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/08/06/ayatana-sound-menu-2/ but here i tried to change only was has chances of being accepted
<thorwil> mpt: it follows that the control layout is inconsistent between those you listed ...
<mpt> JanCBorchardt, ah, I was trying to find those mockups yesterday
<mpt> thorwil, yes :-)
<JanCBorchardt> thorwil: ah right, now I remember reading your post
<mpt> add Listen to the second list
<JanCBorchardt> mpt, me too ;)
<thorwil> mpt: there's a DIN/ISO-somthing norm about transport control layout
<JanCBorchardt> weehu, itâs aday :)
<mpt> thorwil, seriously?
<aday> JanCBorchardt: hey :)
<thorwil> mpt: yes. i might be able to dig  it up, but then again, in a case like this, making play/pause mots easily accessible beats much everything else, i'd say
<mpt> yeah
<thorwil> which is one reason i placed them above track info
<aday> so what's happening?
<mpt> all righty then
<mpt> Is anyone else here going to UDS?
<thorwil> \o
<mpt> ah, of course
<thorwil> i was on the standby-list, so not that of course ;)
<mpt> Of course as in, I should have known that
<mpt> So there are a few UX-related sessions registered so far
<mpt> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-design-n-science-of-colour
<mpt> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-design-n-type-in-the-desktop
<mpt> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-design-n-research-to-design
<mpt> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-design-n-china
<mpt> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-n-china-follow-up
<mpt> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-design-n-ayatana-update <- that one's about us
<mpt> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-design-n-design-in-open-source <- so is that
<mpt> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-design-n-feedback
<mpt> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-design-n-community <- that one's about us too
<mpt> Probably there are more coming
<thorwil> cool
<godbyk> Oops. Andchat didn't tell me anyone was talking in here. Sorry I'm late.
<mpt> hi godbyk
<thorwil> broken link: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-design-n-china
<godbyk> hey, mpt
<JanCBorchardt> thorwil: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-n-china
<JanCBorchardt> mpt: thanks!
<mpt> I think aday might like to call for help with the HIG now :-)
<wers-brb> yep
<JanCBorchardt> what about remote participation? I will not be in Florida
<aday> help!!!
<wers> lol
<aday> before that - i want to ask - which of those sessions are most relevant for gnomey folks?
<mpt> JanCBorchardt, there will almost certainly be streaming audio and IRC for each room. I don't see any details on that at the moment, but subscribe to <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-N> if you haven't already
<aday> in particular - is the fonts session particularly related to the ubuntu font, or is it more generic than that?
<wers> mpt, cool. thanks
<mpt> aday, probably the design-n-community and design-in-open-source ones
<godbyk> I won't be at UDS (I'm a poor grad student and wasn't sponsored), but hope to attend some of the sessions remotely again.
<mpt> aday, the font one is about using different fonts and styles in different places, so it may affect GTK.
<aday> mpt: thanks
<aday> i'll maybe send a mail round to advertise those
<JanCBorchardt> andreasn: ping ;)
<aday> so, about the hig - we're trying to get the hig effort back up and running again
<JanCBorchardt> godbyk: same here ;)
<aday> i'm organising a meeting of the interested parties to plan what needs to be done
<andreasn> JanCBorchardt, sorry, busy requesting a fdo account :)
<aday> so if anybody is interested in that, let me know when you're available
<aday> i'm hoping to try and decide on the format and priority content at that meeting
<JanCBorchardt> andreasn: Ayatana meeting now, just so you know :)
<godbyk> aday: what meeting are you organizing?
<wers> godbyk, for the GNOME HIG
<aday> godbyk: human interface guidelines 3.0
<andreasn> yes, I know, trying to do 10 things at the same time :)
<andreasn> sorry for that
<godbyk> Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I'd love to attend if I can.
<aday> sorry, i should have given more background - we're re-writing the HIG :)
<godbyk> aday: I've looked at the pattern library that was started.  I like the idea.
<andreasn> JanCBorchardt, was it something specific you wanted to ask me?
<JanCBorchardt> andreasn: no
<aday> godbyk: cool. comments and feedback are welcome
<andreasn> anyway, I'm with you in both soul and flesh now :)
<aday> we're going to need help with writing and editing, so if anybody wants to have a go at writing a pattern that would be great
<wers> and let's figure out how we're going to do it
<aday> wers: yes, that's the first step
<aday> which we'll hopefully be sorting out soon
<aday> i'll be updating the gnome usability list - so watch that space if you're interested
<JanCBorchardt> godbyk: remote participation for UDS: http://uds.ubuntu.com/participate/remote/
<thorwil> what has been the format for the HIG so far? docbook?
<godbyk> thanks, JanCBorchardt
<aday> thorwil: depends what you mean by format... but yes, i think it's docbook
<aday> we still need to decide on format, so any comments there would be good
<wers> yepyep
<wers> so that's one action item
<wers> everyone think of what the format should be
<aday> possibilities include: wiki, CMS, mallard...
<wers> let's report back next week or maybe on the HIG meeting
<aday> wers: good idea
<godbyk> btw, did everyone here get their ayatana-ux membership expiration date extended?
<mpt> ok
<mpt> I extended everyone's this morning
<mpt> except people who are leaving anyway
<wers> I'm not sure if I got the extension
<godbyk> mpt: ah, cool. just checking.
<wers> next week, let's have a secretary to write down the minutes then send the minutes to the list and/or post on the wiki
 * thorwil is reminded of the supermarket where they would take the meat out of the packaging, turn it around to make it look fresh again, repackage and relable. regarding expiration date
<wers> it's time to be efficient
<thorwil> if only i had enough time to be efficient :)
<wers> I  can be the first secretary. let's take turns
<godbyk> wers: that's easy enough.  though lately, nothing much has been happening at many of the meetings. it's easy to read the 3-4 line exchanges in the logs. :)
<wers> godbyk, let's fix that by having a clearly defined agenda
<godbyk> wers: also a good idea.
<wers> and set the agenda ahead of time
<wers> let's see now what next week's agenda will be. I found one. it's to report back our thoughts on the HIG
<godbyk> is there anything we should do in preparation for UDS?
<mpt> Adding ideas to the whiteboards of those blueprints would be useful, I think
<godbyk> wers: did you catch mpt's agenda item?
<wers> godbyk, nope. what was it?
<godbyk> <mpt> Adding ideas to the whiteboards of those blueprints would be useful, I think
<wers> ok
<mpt> That wasn't an agenda item, I was just answering godbyk's question
<wers> ooh. ok
<JanCBorchardt> does anyone of you not have access to the ayatana-ux repo on gitorious yet?
<mpt> godbyk, did you ever get time to write up a user testing template?
<mpt> script template, I mean
<godbyk> mpt: A user testing template?
<mpt> We talked about doing that a couple of months back.
<godbyk> oh boy.
<godbyk> I'm going to guess 'no', then. :-)
<mpt> ok
<mpt> Is it something you'd like to do?
<godbyk> Sure.  What kind of user testing?
<godbyk> (Most of the scripty stuff I have to deal with is related to bureaucratic IRB things like informed consent.)
<mpt> The sort where you ask someone to try doing something in Ubuntu, and sit and watch them without saying anything
<mpt> (try doing something specific, I mean)
<godbyk> Right.
<godbyk> So you want some boilerplate 'we're testing the software, not you..' intro type stuff?
<mpt> yes
<mpt> exactly
<godbyk> Gotcha.  Yeah, I can whip up some of that.
<mpt> Thank you.
<aday> godbyk: dunno whether this is useful: http://live.gnome.org/Pongo/Tutorial
<aday> i wrote it a while ago... it's not particularly complete
<mpt> Then maybe next week we can discuss how to get people running tests of their own.
<godbyk> aday: cool.
<mpt> (Canonical's Charline Poirier is busily running a user test of Unity right now.)
<godbyk> mpt: Yeah, it'd be great if we could get people running some of their own tests.
<godbyk> For a lot of usability testing, you don't need huge sample sizes, etc.
<mpt> ok
<mpt> Anything else?
<godbyk> nothing's coming to mind.
<mpt> ok, thanks everyone
<godbyk> thanks, mpt!
<aday> see you next week :)
<wers> tried to write minutes for today. we can use this as a template https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana-UX/Minutes/20101014
<mpt> thorwil, is <http://www.foopics.com/showfull/c7e1ce704b9de523e51ec5d4a3569003> yours, or is it from someone else?
<thorwil> mpt: mine
<mpt> ok, I'm linking to it from the spec
<wers> I know I missed a lot for today's minutes. feel free to edit the page
<thorwil> mpt: cool. i will not other bringing it up on the list, then
<thorwil> bother, even
<JanCBorchardt> godbyk: mpt: letting people run their own tests is great. Any way I could help?
<godbyk> It'd be useful to get some feedback from developers on the idea.
<godbyk> What questions do they have about usability testing that we can answer?
<godbyk> What information/resources do they need to be able to run their own tests?
<JanCBorchardt> like what questions to they have, what problems do _they_ see for them (like decisions)
<mpt> excellent idea
<godbyk> In general, how can we help them?
<godbyk> Just writing some generic intro text and tossing it out there won't do much.
<mpt> The developers would be the users of this process, so research them like any other user research
<thorwil> towards a software life-cycle model with integrated globally distributed testing ^^
<JanCBorchardt> yep, intro text is not the important thing, besides it is already there
<godbyk> You could also explore the general impressions that developers have about usability testing. What do they think of it? Are they interested in learning how to do it?
<godbyk> aday's pongo testing wiki page is pretty good, really.
<JanCBorchardt> godbyk: when you say "what info do they need to be able to run their own tests?" do you mean developers?
<godbyk> JanCBorchardt: yes.
<JanCBorchardt> godbyk: I would definitely _not_ advise having developers test their own apps
<JanCBorchardt> they need to be educated about UX and design stuff, but they should not do the tests
<JanCBorchardt> It is crucial for testing that you are not biased.
<JanCBorchardt> testing should definitely be organized by us, as I see it.
<godbyk> I agree about the bias and -- while it's certainly not optimal -- I think that almost any usability testing is better than none at all.
<thorwil> inner circle user/contributors of projects might be in a good position to do testing
<thorwil> being not immersed in implementation, but having a good link to developers
<thorwil> enough enthusiasm and good knowledge of the project
<godbyk> for the most part, you just have to try to keep your mouth shut, not grab the mouse away from the user, and try to avoid strangling them. :)
<godbyk> being slightly masochistic helps, too.
<thorwil> isn't the really hard part drawing conclusions, getting to solutions, anyway?
<godbyk> For really fine-tuned detail stuff, it's more difficult to analyze the results.  But for the big problems.. well, they'll be apparent after you've seen a few people trying to use your software and stumbling in the same places.
<JanCBorchardt> godbyk, thorwil: sorry I am answering late â just be sure I read and agree with your replies. :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-15
<matthewrohaly> Hello
<matthewrohaly> Hi
<persia> matthewrohaly, By your repeated greetings, I suspect you may have found a channel different than that which you expect.  This channel is reserved for scheduled meetings.  What sort of channel did you seek?  It may be that I can redirect you.
<matthewrohaly> Oh hi, I was wonder if I had missed the Ubuntu Members meeting
<matthewrohaly> I had some work to do and forgot
<matthewrohaly> :(
<maco> if you mean the americas board, i think thats next week
<matthewrohaly> Is it?
<matthewrohaly> oh i thought it way todya
<matthewrohaly> oh your right
<matthewrohaly> im so sorry
<matthewrohaly> Have a great day :)
<ScottK> \o
<Riddell> neversfelde, apachelogger, ScottK  council ping
<Riddell> rgreening: ping
<neversfelde> here
<ScottK> Do we have an agenda?
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<Riddell> which is out of date
<valoriez> ScottK: I added my membership to the top
<Riddell> exept for valoriez's membership
<Riddell> so let's start with that
<neversfelde> so let's start with that
<Riddell> valoriez: who are you want why do you want to be a Kubuntu memeber?
<Riddell> s/want/and/
<valoriez> I'm a writer, and I want to contribute
<valoriez> I've started with Amarok
<valoriez> I would prefer to start contributing to projects I use, and can help with
<Riddell> the Amarok folks didn't put you off free software for life? :)
<valoriez> rofl
<valoriez> I'm enjoying the process of writing the handbook
<valoriez> and the Insider
<Riddell> what do you do for Ubuntu and Kubuntu?
<valoriez> it sounds like membership will give me some in, to get the information I need to write well
<valoriez> well, I started my blog, which does seem to be helping people
<valoriez> I doubt I'll ever be more techie than I am now
<valoriez> but I love hanging with technical people
<valoriez> and I am talented at connecting people and information
<valoriez> and supporting/creating community
<Riddell> you do things with loco?
<valoriez> have been with Linuxchix for about.....8 years
<ScottK> What kind of support and assistance do you provide for users? (IIRC you said something about that on your wiki page)
<valoriez> we're trying to get a LoCo together
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/ValorieZimmerman
<valoriez> it's been work
<valoriez> not a whole lot of success yet
<valoriez> but I'm not giving up
<neversfelde> valoriez: I know how hard it is to write a handbook, and we really need people who work on the docs and the wiki, but I miss contributions that are Kubuntu related. You, seem to be very active in LoCo work and other Ubuntu things, so why Kubuntu membership and not Ubuntu?
<valoriez> support and assistance through my blog, IRC, lists, and some forums
<valoriez> well, I'm a KDE person
<valoriez> don't really like the gnome
<valoriez> I'm not religious about it
<Riddell> presumably she uses Kubuntu :)
<valoriez> but I prefer Kubuntu, always
<neversfelde> and that's good :)
<valoriez> and kubuntu apps
<Riddell> "Washington Ubuntu LoCo" is unrelated to Washington DC Loco?
<maco> lots of new-to-kde people stumble into #ubuntu-women, where she's very helpful (also, i was one of those ;) )
<maco> Riddell: washington is a state too
<valoriez> neversfelde: I'm just starting with the tech writing, besides my blog
<ScottK> Riddell: It's on the other end of the country
<valoriez> so I hope to get there
<ScottK> Do you help out on #kubuntu?
<valoriez> unrelated in that Washington is a state
<valoriez> ScottK: I've gone there a couple of times
<valoriez> but it seems much more technical than I am
<valoriez> I'm willing to live there more, however
<valoriez> because IRC is a great place to learn about stuff
<neversfelde> valoriez: you#re searching for "other tech writing and community building projects which need doing in K/Ubuntu"
<neversfelde> what do you think that is?
<maco> oh i know what nixternal would answer
<valoriez> well, to be honest, I think the community side is lacking in Kubuntu
<valoriez> seriously
<valoriez> there is a lot of support for OOOObuntu
<valoriez> by the structure
<valoriez> but I'm always having to plump for KUbuntu
<neversfelde> you are giving support?
<valoriez> in my LoCo, in Ubuntu--Women
<valoriez> and elsewhere
<neversfelde> ok
<valoriez> yes, and sometimes that is handing people off to folks who can answer their questions
<valoriez> since I'm not very technical
<valoriez> my enthusiasm has carried the day a few times
<neversfelde> that's not a problem. I like what I see, but as I said there aren't any kubuntu contributions so far
<valoriez> I'm not anti-ubuntu
<valoriez> just pro-Kubuntu
<valoriez> neversfelde: do you have any suggestions of ways I can improve that?
<neversfelde> but I think I can give a +1, because I think you can help us
<valoriez> my loco work, I consider kubuntu contributions
<Riddell> Kubuntu membership, in my opinion, is open to people who are part of the wider Ubuntu community but happen to use Kubuntu as their preferred variant
<neversfelde> valoriez: I am sure that you will improve this and on that basis I think you should be part of the team
<valoriez> I'm not saying I deserve this
<valoriez> however, I would *like* it
<ScottK> Membership is for significant and sustained contribution to the Ubuntu project.  It sounds like a lot of what you've done is outside the Ubuntu project (Linuxchix and Amarok) - It's great, but I don't think it goes towards membership.
<valoriez> and will appreciate the honor, and continue to work
<valoriez> well, we've been working on the loco for over a year
<Riddell> it's the loco work which makes me want to give a +1
<valoriez> Vancouver BC is only 3 hours north of us, and they are on FIRE
<valoriez> ours is limping, especially in contrast
<valoriez> but all we can do is keep going
<valoriez> Seattle is a bit of a Microsoft town
<valoriez> lol
<maco> valoriez: since you write a bunch, would you be up for filling in on the Kubuntu Docs stuff, since outside commitments have torn others away from it?
<neversfelde> yes, we should not underestimate LoCo work, I'm doing it myself and it is often not easy
<valoriez> certainly!
<maco> (dunno if you were aware help was needed there)
<valoriez> point me at something
<Riddell> we have a session on it at UDS
<valoriez> oh, cool
<valoriez> when are schedules for the sessions going to be out?
<Riddell> +1 from me for loco work and several testimonials about how helpful she is
<valoriez> I've heard nothing
<ScottK> The real question is would this make me no longer the oldest Kubuntu member?
<valoriez> rofl
<valoriez> I'm 57
<valoriez> ?
<Riddell> valoriez: schedule isn't final until the morning it happens
<ScottK> Yep.
<neversfelde> the problem with LoCo work is, that the international team often do not realize it
<maco> valoriez: check your inbox, Riddell sent an email today saying the stuff's getting scheduled overnight
<neversfelde> ScottK: rofl
<valoriez> woooo, I'll be the oldest?
<Riddell> neversfelde: you still +1?
<ScottK> valoriez: I'd also encourage you to hang out in #kubuntu.  You'll both learn and help people with things that will help your writing.
 * ScottK is +1.
<maco> mm guess i should say "first pass" at scheduling...
<valoriez> ok, I'll do that
<neversfelde> Riddell:  yes, I am
<Riddell> then valoriez is in!
<Riddell> welcome along
<valoriez> \o/
<ScottK> valoriez: You've got me beat by 10 years, so you would be it, AFAIK.
<valoriez> thank you!
<neversfelde> that's great
<neversfelde> valoriez: welcome
<maco> valoriez: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kubuntu-n-docs
<maco> woo
 * valoriez waits for the limo to pull up
 * maco hugs valoriez
<neversfelde> and please have a look at the docs :)
<Riddell> do we have any other business?
<neversfelde> mhh
<ScottK> Banishing nixternal for excessive bicyle riding?
<neversfelde> hehe
<valoriez> thanks for meeting, and considering my application
<Riddell> I'm away for most of next week, hopefully ninjas will get cracking on the merges
<Riddell> and then party in Orlando
<maco> Riddell: there's work before the party :P
<valoriez> party? hmmm
<valoriez> I thought it was work
<valoriez> lol
<neversfelde> bulldog98: you did nbot reapply?
<Riddell> incase anyone else is confused, Downtown Disney is just a place with brightly coloured restaurants that we go for tea, it's not Disneyworld itself
<neversfelde> -b
<maco> in case anyone else is confused, when Riddell says "tea" he means "dinner" or "supper" or "bangohan"
<ScottK> When I say coffee, I mean coffee.
<neversfelde> ok, so no other business :)
<Riddell> thanks for coming all
<neversfelde> that was a short meeting :)
<ScottK> No one else was up for the banishing.
<Mohan_chml> 24 minutes =]
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-10
<ara> jedimike, not sure how many people will show up for the UF meeting :)
<victorp> o/
<ara> victorp, schwuk, brendand, akgraner?
<schwuk> ara: ?
<brendand> hi
<victorp> ara?
 * schwuk only just joined
<akgraner> o/ I'm here
<ara> schwuk, I was just counting :)
<jedimike> o/ here too
<ara> OK, let's get started
<ara> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct 10 15:03:28 2011 UTC.  The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ara> Today we don't have a fixed agenda, just a Q&A + general discussion
<ara> so, if you want to participate, just raise your hand
<ara> ..
<victorp> o/
<victorp> has everyone submitted their systems yet? ..
 * ara has submitted hers
 * brendand has
 * victorp got 4+ stars
 * brendand needs blank cd's and a firewire device ;)
<ara> jedimike, I have seen that my system still shows vga external monitor result
<jedimike> ara: what's the url for your system?
<ara> http://107.20.216.30/11.10/LENOVO/4171CTO/I:D8Wuop:Ek:I8g:CPe:B9ip:EZ0:I8g:BI3:I8g/
<victorp> brendand, is blanks CDs not a skipeable core test?
<victorp> jedimike, ^^
<jedimike> victorp, brendand, yes it is skippable
<victorp> brendand, oh you mean for 5 stars
<brendand> victorp - exactly
<victorp> ara - so small community then ;)
<brendand> o/
<jedimike> ara: can you raise that as a bug, it shouldn't be in there now
<ara> jedimike, mmm, didn't I raise a bug about that before?
<ara> jedimike, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-friendly/+bug/868972
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 868972 in Ubuntu Friendly "Categories with all the tests skipped, shouldn't appear in the list of components" [Medium,Fix released]
<ara> you lied!
<ara> :D
<ara> brendand, go ahead
<jedimike> ara: yes and we got it fixed, but this is a different bug. The problem is that the powersaving test is in 'monitor' which is 'vga external video' in UF
<brendand> i just wanted to ask how many people are seeing the annoying problem with checkbox hiding when running tests?
<brendand> ..
<ara> jedimike, OK, I'll raise a bug
 * ara sees the annoying bug
<victorp> me
<victorp> brendand, is it a checkbox issue or unity?
<brendand> victorp - i don't think it is a checkbox issue
<brendand> victorp - same thing doesn't happen in unity 2-d for example
<victorp> so do we know if it affects other tools/dialogs?
<victorp> brendand, ah
<ara> victorp, but it might be a corner case that appeared because the gtk architecture of checkbox is weird
<ara> the main window is a gtkdialog, and the progress dialog is actually a gtkwindow
<victorp> yes yes
<brendand> i was about to say. yes
<brendand> i haven't found an existing bug yet
<brendand> we could change the ui to avoid the necessity to repeatedly hide the dialog (e.g. by building the progress bar into the main dialog)
<brendand> but no quick fix it seems
<ara> akgraner, did you have the opportunity to give submit your system lately?
<ara> seems like akgraner is not around
<ara> OK, any other comments?
<ara> going once
<ara> going twice
<ara> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct 10 15:24:51 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-10-15.03.moin.txt
<ara> OK, thanks all! and tell your friends to submit their systems! :)
<akgraner> I'm sorry I lost wifi and had to run cable right quick...:-(
<ara> akgraner, no worries, actually I was asking you if you had had the opportunity to submit your system lately
<akgraner> ara upgrading now and will be doing that once I get the install completed
<ara> akgraner, awesome, let us know how that went
<akgraner> will do
 * micahg looks for people waiting for the DMB meeting...
<Laney> hello
<micahg> bdrung, cody-somerville, persia, stgraber meeting?
<cody-somerville> Hi
<micahg> hi geser, here for the meeting?
<geser> am I wrong?
<Laney> oh so right
<micahg> well, at least we have quorom now
<Laney> do youw ant to chair? :-)
<Laney> at least we have no applicants
<micahg> right (which isn't a good thing per se)
<cody-somerville> I think it is the first time thats happened in the history of the DMB :P
<cody-somerville> However, today is a stat holiday in the US and Canada which might provide a partial explanation.
 * micahg will be on next meeting's agenda hopefully
<Laney> exciting!
<Laney> bah
<Laney> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct 10 19:07:40 2011 UTC.  The chair is Laney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<Laney> you slackers :P
 * micahg hugs laney
<Laney> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
<micahg> Laney: I chaired last week :P
<Laney> #subtopic Laney to start thread on ubuntu-devel about renaming UCD
<Laney> done, did everyone see it?
<micahg> yes, I still need to respond
<Laney> i think we should let it run until the next meeting and then look before than
<Laney> can someone volunteer to prepare a summary?
<Laney> and/or proposals
<Laney> erm, ok, never mind
<Laney> #subtopic jono to ask Daniel to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers to be easier to read
<Laney> he did this, the url is at http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/JzyYyxw0Qb
<Laney> please edit it at your leisure, at some point i imagine daniel will commit it to the wiki
<Laney> #subtopic cody-somerville to write some documentation on how to endorse someone
<Laney> not done?
<cody-somerville> I've started this but haven't had much time to work on it since.
<Laney> ok, hopefully next time
 * bdrung arrives.
<cody-somerville> I'm wondering, is most folks on the DMB going to be at UDS?
<Laney> yep
<cody-somerville> *are
<micahg> well, I'll be there and I assume stgraber will be as well
<cody-somerville> I think it would be a good idea to schedule a private meeting for the DMB.
 * geser is not at UDS
 * bdrung will not at UDS
<Laney> haven't seen persia in an age, don't know if he is still around
<geser> he is probably busy with other stuff and will reappear in a couple of weeks (like last time)
<cody-somerville> geser, bdrung: Would you be able to participate remotely in such a meeting?
<bdrung> cody-somerville: depends on the time
<Laney> would have to be late I guess
<geser> depends on the time (and if I need to get any special tools setup to participate)
<Laney> for .euers
<bdrung> how late?
<bdrung> late is good in most cases
<micahg> well, we'll be at UTC-4
<Laney> right, well let's work it on on list
<Laney> will we have a scheduled meeting then?
<Laney> no
<Laney> cody-somerville: can you mail marianna and such to get a room?
<cody-somerville> Laney, Aye.
<Laney> I think they usually have conference call facilities, but no idea how it works
<Laney> carrying on
<cody-somerville> I'll see what I can come up with.
<Laney> #subtopic stgraber to publish packageset generation script so the rest of the DMB can help maintain it
<Laney> not here, does anyone know if this happened?
<cody-somerville> I think it may have
<cody-somerville> can't say for sure though
<geser> the page with the results was mailed, but not the script itself IIRC
<Laney> a branch under ~developer-membership-board on LP would be good
<Laney> i'll poke him to publish it
<Laney> #action Laney to poke stgraber about publishing package set script
<meetingology> ACTION: Laney to poke stgraber about publishing package set script
<Laney> #subtopic James Page
<Laney> approved for core-dev
<Laney> micahg: where do we stand with motu?
<micahg> that was taken care of
<Laney> application falls?
<micahg> Laney: well, yeah, I didn't send out the second vote for MOTU since it seemed pointeless
<Laney> ok, as long as there is nothing left to do
<Laney> i want to get this position statement out though
<Laney> can you take care of it, if everybody is ok with the proposed text?
<cody-somerville> Laney, Position statement on what again?
<micahg> before the next meeting?  yeah, I can do that
 * bdrung is ok with it.
<Laney> how we handle people applying for redundant permissions
<Laney> 'social' applications
<cody-somerville> Is there any pressing reason to release a statement ASAP? I haven't read it yet.
<Laney> not ASAP, but I want it to happen
<Laney> please do comment
<cody-somerville> Without reading it, I'm inclined to say it is probably something that I'd like for us to discuss at our meeting at UDS.
<Laney> ok, well...
<Laney> #action cody-somerville to follow up on position statement
<meetingology> ACTION: cody-somerville to follow up on position statement
<Laney> (on-list)
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> #topic Administrative Matters
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Administrative Matters
<Laney> do we have anything left to discuss about the survey?
 * cody-somerville doesn't at this point.
<Laney> let's leave that
<Laney> onto the meat
<Laney> #subtopic Continue discussion about our package set management workflows
<Laney> I had a proposal that I typed out somewhere, but I can't remember where
<Laney> basically
<Laney>  - As a matter of policy, each package set has a single uploader, which is a team. The DMB can either handle applications to the team or delegate to an appopriate council if one is set up.
<Laney>  - Applications for new package sets must come with some clear criteria that the DMB can apply when adding subsequent packages in future
<Laney>   - Package additions are done by requesting on devel-permissions. Any DMB member will check against the criteria and add if it matches (or feed back if not).
<Laney> possibly some kind of objection raising period?
<bdrung> sounds good so far
<Laney> so the only real change is that we require these criteria when approving new sets
<Laney> I really dislike making people come to meetings for these kind of additions which in most cases should be a formality
 * bdrung agrees.
 * micahg also agrees
<geser> I agree too but unless we have a policy how to manage package sets, I prefered to have it done in the meeting just to be sure (as the original list of packages was also vote on in a meeting)
<Laney> what kind of policy?
<Laney> you mean, unless we agree on something like this?
<geser> any policy, till now there is no policy at all
<Laney> aye
<Laney> so I suppose a policy should be added to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation ?
<Laney> or is there some other page?
<ScottK> Since you're delegated from the TB, it might not be bad to have them approve the policy.
<ScottK> Then there's no question about are you doing it right.
<geser> IIRC there is no documentation of package sets at all (besides many people knowing that they exist)
<Laney> that is true, I will copy them in
 * Laney thinks TeamDelegation is what we have
<Laney> so if I do that, and the TB thinks the idea is ok, can someone else volunteer to mail people running existing package sets and ask them to come up with criteria?
<Laney> #action Laney to write down proposal for streamlining packageset changes and mail DMB and TB
<meetingology> ACTION: Laney to write down proposal for streamlining packageset changes and mail DMB and TB
<Laney> :(
<micahg> Laney: I can talk to the packageset owners'
<micahg> just might not happen before UDS
<Laney> no massive rush
<Laney> just ping them all "hey, you can make it easy to get new packages if you tell us how to evaluate them"
<Laney> #action micahg to ping packageset owners to write down criteria for package membership
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to ping packageset owners to write down criteria for package membership
<Laney> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<micahg> next chair?
<Laney> ah yes
<Laney> #topic next chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: next chair
<Laney> we should become more systematic
<Laney> alphabetical rotation or so
<micahg> well, I did last week ,so stgraber? (also not here :))
<Laney> well volunteered!
<ajmitch> poor stgraber
 * Laney cackles 
<Laney> #topic aob again
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: aob again
<Laney> going
<Laney> goingâ¦
<Laney> gone, thanks all
<Laney> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct 10 19:51:21 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-10-19.07.moin.txt
<micahg> thanks Laney
<micahg> Laney: now that I think about it, we could've gone reverse alphabetical order
<Laney> ah well
<Laney> micahg: looking forward to seeing you on the other side of the fence again next time!
 * Laney turns up the heat
<micahg> Laney: hehe, I guess I'll be doing some jumping next meeting, I better warm up :)
 * bdrung want to have the 'reverse alphabetical order' card
 * micahg wonders if it was wise to volunteer the chair for the next meeting when he's an applicant...
<broder> omg canonical biases :-P
<geser> micahg: you can interview then yourself :)
 * ajmitch regrets not volunteering for a DMB nomination now :)
<micahg> geser: no, I volunteered someone else
<geser> ajmitch: your next chance is around Jan/Feb 2012 when 5/7 of the DMB expire
<ajmitch> no doubt most will stand for reelection
<micahg> geser: the term was only 1 yr?
<geser> micahg: I'm not sure anymore if it's 1 or 2 years
<micahg> the next election should be for bdrung's seat next year sometime
<geser> micahg: cody-somerville, persia, Laney, stgraber and me expire on 2012-02-13 (a good chance to ajmitch to get a seat)
<geser> bdrung has time till Nov 2012
<Laney> launchpad thinks we are 1, which is fine by me
<ajmitch> why is Laney the only special one with a short term on LP?
<geser> only micahg got elected for 2 years :) (not sure about bdrung)
 * micahg also has 2 yrs, thinks there was an error seeding the elected from Feb
 * bdrung got elected for 2 years
<geser> ajmitch: the others got re-elected Feb 2011
 * micahg will write the TB about the error unless asked not to
<ajmitch> as long as the team stays with enough members, it shouldn't  matter too much
<geser> micahg: I don't mind but I hoped to have my term end in Feb 2012. 4 years of MC/DMB are enough for now.
<geser> ajmitch: I can nominate you for my seat when my term ends :)
<ajmitch> gee thanks :)
<micahg> geser: in that case, do you want to send the e-mail to the TB and request your term to be left alone?
<geser> micahg: I will mail the TB and ask about the term for the DMB and let the other ones get updated
<micahg> geser: thanks
<geser> ajmitch: we need more timezones in the DMB to make finding a meeting time more challenging :)
<micahg> we already have 3 disparate time zones, we need more?
<ajmitch> I'm an expert in that area - noone can  meeting time to accomodate UTC+13, US & europe
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-11
<jacknix> hola, all
<jacknix> anyone using puppy?
<head_victim> Evening all, Asia/Oceania Membership meeting coming up
<ashickur-noor> Hello there
<ashickur-noor> is Asia and Oceania regional approval board started?
<head_victim> ashickur-noor: I've arrived, awaiting other members for now
<ashickur-noor> Ok
<head_victim> Destine, persia, ejat, elky, lifeless, freeflying - ping :)
<Destine> head_victim, ready~
<head_victim> Cool, that's 2 of us, need another 2 for quorum.
<ejat> pong
<head_victim> Ok, that's 3, down to one needed :)
<elky> head_victim, hi
<head_victim> Cool, so that's quorum.
<freeflying> hi
<head_victim> Yay a fifth, any volunteers for chair?
<elky> I'm a bit distracted, so best someone else does it
<head_victim> Ok I can start it then :)
<head_victim> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 11 10:16:29 2011 UTC.  The chair is head_victim. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<head_victim> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<head_victim> ashickur-noor: how about you give us a brief introduction while people have a few minutes to read over your application
<Destine> head_victim, oh, he is timed out.
<head_victim> Well that's a good start
<head_victim> We should all read over the application now anyway, they're bound to reconnect in a couple of minutes.
<Destine> head_victim, already read.
<elky> same
<head_victim> Cool
<head_victim> Well another topic I wanted to bring up was the scheduling of the meetings. Most other boards tend to meet monthly and with the current number of applicants I don't think that's too bad an idea.
<elky> i like the idea of monthly
<Destine> head_victim, agreed. However, I think it can be flexible. We can arrange extra meetings if we have a lot of applicants.
<head_victim> If we start getting large numbers of applicants we can't get through we could easily go back to twice a month if the need arisings
<head_victim> Destine: exactly what I was thinking :)
<Destine> I do hope we can have more applicants. I wish we can be a little bit busy really.
<head_victim> I saw a blog on the planet encouraging membership recently actually. It's probably somethign we could all assist with. I'm sure we all know people who are suited to becoming Ubuntu members that aren't
<freeflying> Destine: I bet if we speak Chinese, applicants will flood in :)
<Destine> freeflying, I guess so. :)
<head_victim> I'm sure there is a Ubuntu member int he Chinese team that would be willing to assist with the translations
<head_victim> And of course as long as the application is in early enough there is always google translate
<freeflying> head_victim: but still language is a gap :)
<ejat> still not rejoin ?
<head_victim> ejat: apparently not :/
<Destine> freeflying, sure. Encourage them to learn English then.
 * Destine call for ashickur...
<head_victim> So are we comfortable on reaching consensus on making the meeting monthly?
<Destine> head_victim, +1
<freeflying> +1
<elky> +1
<head_victim> Ok well when writing up the next meeting times I'll post it for the second Tuesday of next month
<ejat> +1
<head_victim> Ashickur appears to have dropped offline
<head_victim> #Agreed Change meetings to monthly for now, revisit if applications pick up to the point of not getting through them in a meeting
<head_victim> Anyone willing to email ashickur to get them to follow up next month?
<head_victim> #action head_victim to email follow up to ashickur
<meetingology> ACTION: head_victim to email follow up to ashickur
<head_victim> Alright, anyone have any other business?
<Destine> head_victim, I guess he is back.
<ashickur-noor> Sorry
<Destine> elky, ejat freeflying ping.
<Destine> the applicant is back.
<head_victim> ashickur-noor: can you give us a quick introduction, we were about to close off the meeting
<elky> still here
<ashickur-noor> About me?
<head_victim> ashickur-noor: yep, a brief, 1 - 2 sentence rundown of your acitivities
<ashickur-noor> Currently am working as a moderator of Bengali Linux forum
<ashickur-noor> and Another open Source Forum in Bangladesh
<ashickur-noor> Volunteer of FOSS Bangladesh
<head_victim> ashickur-noor: thanks, I notice on your wiki page you mention 2 events recently. Were they Ubuntu centric and what was your level of involvement?
<ashickur-noor> I was in charge of the Linux installation booth
<ashickur-noor> on SFD 2011 Bangladesh
<elky> But it wasn't Ubuntu specific?
<ashickur-noor> On Linux Day I was volunteer and ast. coordinator of International communications
<ashickur-noor> Yes I have installed Ubuntu about 5 laptops
<ashickur-noor> And give support about 15 person
<ashickur-noor> Regarding Ubuntu
<Destine> ashickur-noor, anything else? Like specific things in Ubuntu Bangladesh LoCo?
<ashickur-noor> I was active on Ubuntu LoCo when it was lively
<ashickur-noor> Our mailing list is active
<ashickur-noor> And I am an active member of  this  list
<ashickur-noor> I also give support in our Bengali forum regarding to Ubuntu
<ashickur-noor> Currently I am working on A Ubuntu Bengali guide
<head_victim> Ok, Ubuntu membership is for people providing sustained and significant contributions to the Ubuntu community.
<head_victim> ashickur-noor: is that translation of the official documentation or an offshoot?
<ashickur-noor> It is an offshoot
<ashickur-noor> Coz I know what our fellow user want
<ashickur-noor> And what trouble new user face to Use Ubuntu in First place
<head_victim> Ok, does anyone else have any questions?
<Destine> head_victim, nope.
<elky> head_victim, nope
<head_victim> freeflying?
<head_victim> Well we've gone and lost quorum :/
<Destine> head_victim, i am trying to reach freeflying.
<elky> i will try tweeting at ejat
<head_victim> Thanks, this shouldn't be this hard :/
<freeflying> sorry, qwas away
<elky> ah there we go
<freeflying> no question for me
<head_victim> Ok so I'll start the vote, please only board members vote
<head_victim> #vote on to accept ashickur-noor as a Ubuntu Member , reply with +1 for yes, -1 for no and +0 for abstaining
<meetingology> Please vote on: on to accept ashickur-noor as a Ubuntu Member , reply with +1 for yes, -1 for no and +0 for abstaining
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<freeflying> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from freeflying
<elky> +0 Not enough work in the ubuntu community. I'd love to see you get the loco going again, i'm sure you can do that
<meetingology> +0 Not enough work in the ubuntu community. I'd love to see you get the loco going again, i'm sure you can do that received from elky
<Destine> +0 I am not quite sure about the contributions.
<meetingology> +0 I am not quite sure about the contributions. received from Destine
<head_victim> +0 I would like to see more Ubuntu specific involvement and possibly some testimonials from those who have seen your work as it relates to your application documentation.
<meetingology> +0 I would like to see more Ubuntu specific involvement and possibly some testimonials from those who have seen your work as it relates to your application documentation. received from head_victim
<head_victim> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on to accept ashickur-noor as a Ubuntu Member , reply with +1 for yes, -1 for no and +0 for abstaining
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:4
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<elky> AlanBell, whaaaaa...
<AlanBell> is that a bug?
<elky> AlanBell, where's the deadlock?
<elky> don't tell me we have to give negatives...
<AlanBell> hmm, you have an equal number of +1 and -1 (zero of each)
<head_victim> ashickur-noor: while your contributions to FOSS in your local area appear to be growing which is good, the feedback seems to be that it might need to focus more on Ubuntu (or at least have some testimonials from those who assist in organising these events with backing up detail)
<elky> AlanBell, yeah, but this is still a valid vote.
<AlanBell> lets discuss the voting logic after the meeting
<head_victim> Does anyone have any more specific feedback for ashickur-noor about his application?
<Destine> ashickur-noor, please make more contributions specificly to Ubuntu and come back to re-apply.
<elky> i think he's quite capable of getting the loco doing events and things. I'd love to see him back after more work focussed there
<elky> sigh.
<head_victim> Ok, well I'll endmeeting if no one else has anything to say?
<elky> he probably didn't even see the voting
<elky> yeah endmeeting
<Destine> head_victim, yup, timed out.
<ashickur-noor> Sorry
<Destine> ashickur-noor, oh, you are back.
<head_victim> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 11 11:04:18 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-11-10.16.moin.txt
<ashickur-noor> Internet connection Problem
<ashickur-noor> ya
<head_victim> ashickur-noor: see the link there titled "minutes", that is where the vote details will be, sorry was finished typing endmeeting when you popped back in
<ashickur-noor> ya I see that
<ashickur-noor> now what will I do?
<ashickur-noor> Our LoCo is totally dead
<head_victim> Essentially the feedback seems to revolve around your current contributions don't seem to be overly related to Ubuntu (they might be but they're not documented as such) so the suggestion is toeither focus more on the Ubuntu side of things and document it as such and then come back and reapply :)
<head_victim> ashickur-noor: can you translate?
<ashickur-noor> ya
<head_victim> If you've organised FOSS events you can organise Ubuntu events.
<ashickur-noor> I can
<head_victim> Or even just lead up a Ubuntu section to a different FOSS event
<ashickur-noor> I know
<lifeless> bwah
<lifeless> hi
<lifeless> I think I missed the meeting
<head_victim> The events you've posted may ahve been like that but without details or testimonials from other peol who were there we aren't able to determine that
<head_victim> lifeless: just
<lifeless> 11pm + new baby == ETIMING
<ashickur-noor> Hum
<elky> lifeless, i saw the pics, she's *gorgeous*
<head_victim> lifeless: we have resolved to meet monthly instead of twice monthly which will reduce the burden. The only proviso is that if we get more applications that we can't get through in a meeting we move back to twice a month.
<ashickur-noor> But our prevoius LoCo don't let me to organise such event
<elky> ashickur-noor, what do you mean they don't let you?
<lifeless> elky: thanks :)
<head_victim> ashickur-noor: well as long as you follow the CoC there's nothing really stopping you :)
<lifeless> head_victim: its not a burden so much as just thats when she is screaming her head off cause she has wind :)
<ashickur-noor> Thnx for advice
<elky> lifeless, did she get a bit jaundiced?
<head_victim> ashickur-noor: the bd team looks to have an active mailing list
<lifeless> elky: yeah, bright yellow for a few days; didn't need the sunlam though (but got to about 95% of the way there
<head_victim> I'd suggest trying to join in there and spark some more inovolvement. If you're having problems running events because you're being told not to then I'd suggest raising that in #ubuntu-locoteams as no loco should ever discourage users from running events without good reason
<head_victim> I will write up the meeting and email the team in the next day or two if no one beats me to it.
<head_victim> And on that note, I have to run for some domestic duties of my own
<elky> lifeless, eep. glad she's ok. sick babies are heartbreaking
<ashickur-noor> I don't know how much I can contribute to my Ubuntu LoCo
<lifeless> elky: shes terribly healthy
<elky> ashickur-noor, feel free to ask advice in #ubuntu-locoteams :)
<elky> lifeless, well the yellowness bit is what i meant
<lifeless> elky: 4140g now, growing steadily about 30g a day
<ashickur-noor> I will contribute to my Local Ubuntu user as long I live
<lifeless> elky: a huge fraction of babies get that; we didn't worry at all
<ashickur-noor> Thanks for your support
<Destine> ashickur-noor, hey, take it easy. Be comfortable.
<lifeless> elky: its not like adult jaundice
<elky> lifeless, ah
<lifeless> elky: (you probably know this :P)
<elky> didn't actually no
<head_victim> ashickur-noor: no problems, we're here to help as well as vote :) Feel free to ask advice if you come across problems
<ashickur-noor> I need to active our LoCo
<lifeless> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002526/
<lifeless> elky: ^
<ashickur-noor> I am trying it for few months
<lifeless> elky: handover from placenta to liver of bilirubin recycling
<ashickur-noor> But no Luck
<elky> ah
<lifeless> elky: vs adult jaundice where the liver is failing (or similar)
<ashickur-noor> So I have decided I will
<elky> ashickur-noor, always feel welcome to ask advice of people who are succeeding at it elsewhere
<ashickur-noor> work as I work for my fellow Users
<ashickur-noor> Thnkx for your advice
<Destine> ashickur-noor, come here and we can discuss about the problems you encounter.
<ashickur-noor> I need to sign off
<elky> Well not here here.
<elky> but ask us or in #ubuntu-locoteams
<elky> Have a good night, ashickur-noor
<Destine> ashickur-noor, yup, irc channel.
<elky> lifeless, ah. makes sense
<ashickur-noor> Bye every body
<Destine> ashickur-noor, good luck.
<ashickur-noor> I need to attend the opening ceremony of Our FOSS Bangladesh forum
<ashickur-noor> Thnx again
<Destine> elky, I somehow feel a little bit sorry for this.
<elky> Destine, don't. He'll be fine
<Destine> elky, ok, guess I am not quite experienced yet.
<elky> Destine, that's ok. *hugs*
<Destine> elky, thanks, elky. You are always here.
<elky> :)
<elky> i need to go to bed now, so g'nite :)
<serfus> something i'm not certain about is how would one know when to apply for membership after rejected
<Destine> elky, good night. :)
<AlanBell> night elky
<AlanBell> anyone want to discuss voting logic for deadlocks?
 * Destine listening.
<AlanBell> so at the moment if the sum of all votes is zero it declares a deadlock
<AlanBell> some councils have a leader who has a casting vote, notably sabdfl on technical board and community council
<AlanBell> if you specify a non zero value using #votesrequired then it won't deadlock
<AlanBell> so you can do #votesrequired 2
<AlanBell> then if the sum is 1 the vote fails, if the sum is 2 the vote passes, no deadlock
<Destine> AlanBell, what about we set #votesrequired 1?
<AlanBell> what is the rule for the membership board? how many votes are needed?
<AlanBell> Destine: that would probably have the desired result
<AlanBell> 0 would be a fail, 1 or above would be a pass
<Destine> AlanBell, yes.
<AlanBell> I should update the documentation with that suggestion I think
<AlanBell> elky: "#votesrequired 1" before the vote would set it up right I think
<Destine> AlanBell, she is going to bed now.
<AlanBell> yeah, but she will see that in the morning
<Destine> AlanBell, I see.
<head_victim> AlanBell: so instead of logging the #vote command you log a #votesrequired N ? Or do you do one than the other?
<head_victim> serfus: if you're rejected on your first application there's no reason you can't reapply at any stage you feel you're ready again.
<AlanBell> head_victim: one then the other
<head_victim> Ok so #votesrequired N and then on a separate line #vote
<AlanBell> yes
<head_victim> That sounds pretty good actually, just got to remember it :)
<AlanBell> #startmeeting voting test
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 11 11:47:28 2011 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | voting test Meeting | Current topic:
<AlanBell> #votesrequired 1
<meetingology> votes now need 1 to be passed
<head_victim> +1
<head_victim> Ah yeah doesn't register with just the votes required
<AlanBell> #vote voting rules are awesome
<meetingology> Please vote on: voting rules are awesome
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<AlanBell> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from AlanBell
<AlanBell> #voters AlanBell head_victim
<meetingology> Current voters: AlanBell head_victim
<AlanBell> now nobody else can vote
<AlanBell> so for membership meetings you can stop random passers by and supporters from voting
<AlanBell> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from AlanBell
<AlanBell> I can change my vote until the vote closes
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Voting ended on: voting rules are awesome
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion denied
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 11 11:49:38 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-11-11.47.moin.txt
<head_victim> Cool
<AlanBell> and #endmeeting calls #endvote before it closes the meeting so you can see that the motion was denied with 1 absention
<head_victim> Your bot is quite flexible
<AlanBell> :) I wanted to cover all the different voting rules we have kicking about
<head_victim> AlanBell: just need a degree to drive the bot ;)
 * AlanBell awards head_victim a PhB
<head_victim> AlanBell: that's two grades better than a PhD!
<serfus> head_victim, what i'm actually asking is how would i know when i'm ready again
<serfus> after all, i did apply only because i thought i was member worthy
<head_victim> serfus: ask for some feedback :) I wasn't sure if you were asking for yourself or not so didn't want to assume. Basically when you applied the first time did you receive any feedback as to what areas might have needed some attention?
<serfus> not something specific enough as i recall
<serfus> every one gave me 0, and said i do contribute, just not enough or something similar
<head_victim> Ok, I find a lot of the time people think they're doing enough and aren't approved is their documentation may be a bit on the low side, do you have a link to your wiki page?
<serfus> yup, but i didn't updated it since
<serfus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/serfus
<serfus> in your opinion, testimonials of non ubuntu member counts?
<head_victim> Depends on what they're testifying to
<serfus> because my main activity is within my loco
<serfus> where not many are ubuntu members but are active within the loco
<head_victim> Hmm the wiki is being really slow for some reason
<serfus> the wiki is always slow :P
<head_victim> Ok, well as long as they're providing details about specifics that should be ok. Testimonials like "they're a great person" don't really help though. Sorry still waiting on the wiki
<head_victim> Ok, where you mention moderating forums, maybe provide a link to your account so we can see your post count
<head_victim> Perhaps a link to the mailing list as well so we can get an idea about how much activity there is
<serfus> alright, so more specific details?
<serfus> i find it hard to show that i'm really the central man of the israeli loco
<serfus> arr... it sounds really snobish
<head_victim> Yeah, in an ideal world each board member will pore over each application for all the specific details that they can squeeze out of them. In the real world sometimes they might spend not as much time so the more obvious it is the easier it is (if that makes sense)
<head_victim> It's not snobish. I'm the loco contact for my loco as well :)
<serfus> but i'm doing much more the contacting de facto
<serfus> *then
<head_victim> Ok, so are you running events? Release parties and the like?
<serfus> i did, and another one coming this month :)
<head_victim> Ok, well they are great examples. I'd write somethign along the lines of "organised 2 release parties in my loco" and then link to the loco.u.c events that have been created with details of the day
<head_victim> From the wiki - Membership of the Ubuntu community means recognition of a significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community.
<head_victim> So organising events in your local community is making contributions to the community.
<serfus> okay, i think i got your points... many things to do :)
<head_victim> You'll probably find you're doing enough, just not producing the details for the board to see.
<serfus> including getting the loco approved
<serfus> thanks allot head_victim, this chat was helpful
<head_victim> If you're running multiple events, translating on launchpad regularly and supporting the loco well they're all really good things :)
<head_victim> (that's basically what I do!)
<serfus> haha so i have a future here you say
<head_victim> Everyone has a future with Ubuntu, that's the best part about it
<serfus> :)
<head_victim> You're only limited by the time you have spare to contribute.
<serfus> which unfortunately is never enough
<head_victim> It never feels enough, but you ahve to remember, if you over commit you're going to burn out really quick. Everyone has to decide what level of commitment they make that suits them.
<serfus> ya...
<serfus> i do have 2 weeks off school and work, so i hope to achieve some of the things i wanted but never got to
<head_victim> So I have to head off as it's nearly 11pm here and I have to be up early. But if you're ever wanting to ask questions feel free to ping me on any channel I'm in (I hang around a few) or feel free to ask away in #ubuntu-community where there are heaps of people willing to help
<serfus> many many thanks head_victim
<serfus> have a good night
<head_victim> You to mate, and you're welcome
<bil21al> helo last night i run the system test and i finished it..the system asked my launchpad email adress and than it vanished..i want to ask that where is my report gone ???
<zul> yo
<zul> i think Spamaps is suppose to be running this today
<adam_g> \o
<jamespage> hi all
<hallyn_> jamespage: congrats :)
<jamespage> thanks hallyn_!
<smoser> o/
<shattered> hi
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<hallyn_> zul: do you mind just taking this week?
<zul> hallyn_: sure
<hallyn_> thx
<zul> Spamaps owes me beers
<hallyn_> zul: do you mind adding Ursinha to the list when you update the meeting page?
<zul> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 11 16:07:23 2011 UTC.  The chair is zul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<hallyn_> i forgot last week
<zul> welcome to the last oneiric before release
<zul> hallyn_: ack
<zul> she can do it next week ;)
<zul> so lets get started
<zul> [action] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<Ursinha> I thought I was there already :)
<zul> so it says here hggdh and Spamaps to discusss SRU verification work
<zul> has this been done?
<zul> im assuming no because Spamaps was in boston last week
<zul> ok then
<hallyn_> hggdh was going to test within the hour last week
<hallyn_> hggdh: ^
<zul> hggdh well come back
<hallyn_> k
<zul> jamespage to follow up with jhunt on udev/lvm bugs
<jamespage> followed up
<zul> cool
<jamespage> things appear to have improved with some of the udev changes made since last week
<zul> cool beans
<jamespage> but I think there is one issue still outstanding
<hallyn_> for udev, yes
<hallyn_> lvm still has problem
<zul> looks like an SRU
<hallyn_> y
<zul> archive is in lock down unless if it gets fixed pretty soon
<smoser> it'd be useful to say which bugs we're talking about
<zul> bug 801494
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 801494 in Ubuntu "Multi part LVM layout: system fails to boot due to missing volumes" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801494
<hallyn_> incomplete?
<zul> thats the one
<zul> according to the agenda
<zul> thoughts?
<hallyn_> bug 818177
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818177 in udev (Ubuntu Precise) "boot failures because 'udevadm exit' times out while udevd waits for an already-dead thread" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818177
<zul> yay i heard people whining about that one :)
<zul> also previous meetings:
<zul> smoser, utlemming and smb to follow up on Bug 854050
<zul> utlemming to figure out qemu image situation (carry-over)
<zul> Daviey to talk to ttx and keystone honcho for guidance about oneiric package
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854050 in linux (Ubuntu) "BUG at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.38/mm/swapfile.c:255" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854050
<zul> is any of that done as well? ^^^
<zul> if not ill move on
<utlemming> yes, the images are good
<zul> cool
<zul> #topic Oneiric Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Oneiric Development
<smoser> what does "images are good" mean?
<hggdh> I am back
<utlemming> smoser: the arm images boot inside qemu
<Daviey> Hey chaps
<Daviey> I am here...
<utlemming> they were fixed by the updated kerenl
<Daviey> we are looking pretty good
<smoser> oh. so in regard to bug 854050. why did we just jump past that i wonder.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854050 in linux (Ubuntu) "BUG at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.38/mm/swapfile.c:255" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854050
<Daviey> Currently in a real life meeting, makign it hard for me to be here.
<smoser> i hvae no status on that. but people have tested smb's kernels and they appear good.
<zul> cool...so oneiric is being released this week so we need help ISO testing so Im thinking people should be ISO testing when its available.
<zul> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<Daviey> London Release Party this thursday.
<zul> last week was the ODS and Conference a bunch of people were there
<Daviey> <-- will be there
<zul> UDS at the end of the month
<zul> i wont be at any release party because Ottawa is lame
<zul> any other events?
<zul> i think i mentioned the big ones
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<zul> hi hggdh
<hggdh> hi
<zul> any updates?
<hggdh> relating to the squid bug -- spamaps was unavailable last week; I tried it, and I do not get a fsck running on restart
<hggdh> BUT
<hggdh> I still get a /var busy, remounted RO
<zul> interesting i might poke it today as well
<zul> any else?
<hggdh> so I need to checkpoint with Clint, and find out what gives
<hggdh> this week, unsurprisingly, is release week
<hggdh> we need all help possible to QA all images -- server and otherwise
<hggdh> so...
<hggdh> please...
<hggdh> HELP
<zul> cool..
<hggdh> a final note
<hggdh> jamespage and I are working on getting the EC2 tests passed over to QA
<hggdh> ..
<jamespage> w00t
<zul> sweet
<Daviey> hggdh: when will you have the results?
<hggdh> Daviey: which results?
<Daviey> hggdh: EC2.
<hggdh> Daviey: I am sure this will not be completely done solely by me this week, I am still working on understanding all, and we will need some changes on AWS accounts
<hggdh> but hopefully, soon
<zul> so..
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<jamespage> Daviey: hggdh and I will kickoff the ec2 tests when we get the nod on the RC images
<zul> hi smb
<Daviey> jamespage: rocking..
<shattered> I have a Q re: bug 794570
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 794570 in linux (Ubuntu Lucid) "igbvf driver is missing from virtual-flavored kernel" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/794570
<Daviey> smb will not be here for this section
<shattered> should be easy to fix
<zul> shattered: you will want to talk to smb after the meeting
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<zul> Ncommander around?
<NCommander> yup
<NCommander> (lagging slightly, but I'm here)
<zul> any update?
<NCommander> ARM server is looking good and solid for release. No major bugs to report (although there is aknown issue with guided partitioning during netboot installs on omap3/4)
<smoser> shattered, feel free to ping me in #ubuntu-server, or #ubuntu-kernel and we'll ping smb together if you're interested in some help doing so.
<shattered> ok
<shattered> I have a bunch of other bugs
<zul> NCommander: cool
<zul> any questions for NCommander
<zul> ok moving on
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<shattered> that's me
<zul> im just going to combine this with the Open Discussion part as well
<zul> hi shattered
<shattered> how about bug 517574
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 517574 in net-snmp (Ubuntu) "Please backport agent/mibgroup/host/hr_swrun.c to 5.4.1" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517574
<zul> shattered: ill take a nother look at it soon
<zul> anything else?
<shattered> bug 315763
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 315763 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "netboot: aic94xx sequencer firmware is missing from initrd.gz" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/315763
<shattered> I'm not sure it's assigned to the right package
<zul> shattered: as smoser said take it to #ubuntu-server after the meeting
<shattered> okay
<zul> so is anyone else going to a release party other than Daviey
<smoser> zul, but that was a different bug he was asking about
<zul> smoser: still i think it would be more beneficial to discuss it on #ubuntu-server after the meeting
<smoser> yeah, the point of this meeting is only to list topics, not to discuss anything...
<zul> right
<zul> im glad you agree :)
<zul> if anyone doesnt have anything else then im going to end the meeting
<zul> thanks for coming
<zul> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 11 16:33:46 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-11-16.07.moin.txt
<shattered> ok then, I'll ask in a hour or so (afk)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-12
<nlsthzn> Am I late? Who brought the snacks?!
<Unit193> "[20:00:00] < nlsthzn>" Exactly on time! Just nobody else...
<IAmNotThatGuy> nlsthzn, waiting for Duane
<SanbarComputing> Snacks:  http://wall.alphacoders.com/wallpaper.php?i=49173
<Unit193> If I start licking my screen, it's all on you
<SanbarComputing> Yuck!
<SanbarComputing> or should I say ... Yum!
<SanbarComputing> Who volunteers to bring this meeting to order?
<IAmNotThatGuy> I think I am going to start the meeting and manage till Duane comes back
 * nlsthzn hides
<nlsthzn> Tea first
<IAmNotThatGuy> Unit193, nlsthzn, PabloRubianes What can we do? Shall I chair and start the meeting? and wait for duane?
<SanbarComputing> Well, I was not asked, but I would suggest 'yes"
<Unit193> Well, we can't exactly run without him can we
<PabloRubianes> IAmNotThatGuy, no
<IAmNotThatGuy> Unit193, Yes. He droped a mail regarding the discussion
<PabloRubianes> we have to wait to a council member
<IAmNotThatGuy> Great :/
<PabloRubianes> also duanedesign is the one with the ideas to discuss
 * nlsthzn isn't even in this team so no point asking him
<IAmNotThatGuy> I am not seeing him the google :[
<IAmNotThatGuy> PabloRubianes, We have the topics and Ideas. Remember? the mail?
<PabloRubianes> IAmNotThatGuy, we have to wait
<PabloRubianes> sorry
<IAmNotThatGuy> np
 * nlsthzn paid good money for these seats and wont be going anywhere
<IAmNotThatGuy> nlsthzn, lol
 * nlsthzn bursts forth in song...
<SanbarComputing> give that man more beer!
<nlsthzn> :)
<Unit193> This meeting is going oh so well...
<nlsthzn> Best yet ;)
<IAmNotThatGuy> :[
<IAmNotThatGuy> I pinged s-fox. But he might be asleep
<SanbarComputing> this will lighten the mood ... http://www.straubbeer.com/images/get-freebies/bottles-5up/bottles-5up_1024x768.jpg
<nlsthzn> Well, I can't find anybody that fits the needs online at the moment...
<IAmNotThatGuy> SanbarComputing, You are not supposed to do post those kinda images in here. This is a wrong channel
<Unit193> 30 past, meeting is a bust
<andrew5434> #TouchLay
<pedro_> Hello everybody
<pedro_> Time for the meeting!
<pedro_> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Oct 12 17:00:34 2011 UTC.  The chair is pedro_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pedro_> hopefully a short one so we can go back to ISO Testing mode ;-)
<pedro_> ok like always the agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<pedro_> #topic Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions
<pedro_> anything from the previous meeting? I can't remember any
<pedro_> ok
<pedro_> #topic Community Efforts/Testing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Community Efforts/Testing
<pedro_> jibel hggdh ^
<pedro_> anything you'd like to share?
<gema> jibel is on a crisis over a last minute problem launching gedit on the latest iso
<pedro_> alright
<gema> we are doing intensive image testing, so if anyone wants to jump in and help
<gema> everyone's welcome
<gema> :) ..
 * hggdh is syncing latest isos, but slow as molasses
<pedro_> gema, where to go if one like to help?
 * charlie-tca waves
<pedro_> hey charlie-tca :-)
<gema> iso.qa.ubuntu.com is the place
<charlie-tca> We just got new desktop images for everyone, and they need to be tested
<pedro_> ok guys so please, if you'd like to help us! please go to iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<pedro_> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/ <- there's plenty of things to be tested
<charlie-tca> I could say we don't have any major showstoppers yet
<hggdh> yeah
<gema> yeah, it is looking good
<pedro_> so hopefully the release is going to be out tomorrow as scheduled :-)
 * pedro_ crossing fingers
 * hggdh crosses fingers & toes
<gema> but we are fixing bits and pieces so some testing from the community would be very welcome
<pedro_> lol
<pedro_> and last thing: #ubuntu-testing is the channel to go for coordination on the iso testing effort
<gema> ..
<pedro_> thanks gema hggdh charlie-tca
<pedro_> lets go for the next topic
<pedro_> #topic Automated/Systems Testing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Automated/Systems Testing
<pedro_> anything on the subject?
<pedro_> tic tac tic tac
<nuclearbob> there's a session planned for UDS-P
<nuclearbob> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-P/TestingInUbuntu
<pedro_> cool!
<pedro_> "Pizza and beer will be provided"
<pedro_> guess i'm going there :-)
<pedro_> lot of interesting talks as well, cool
<pedro_> thanks for the link nuclearbob
<nuclearbob> no problem
<pedro_> folks: anything else on the topic?
<sbeattie> Presumably that's just a start of the discussion? There's over an hour of lightning talks scheduled.
<gema> sbeattie: I think it aims to get people thinking about testing and in particular automation
<gema> we'll be having other sessions to plan how to get more stuff automated
<gema> and what infrastructure we lack
<gema> etc
<sbeattie> gema: could we link those session off that page, so people know what blueprints to subscribe to?
<sbeattie> (or somewhere else, I'm not particular)
<gema> sbeattie: indeed, I will aim at having the blueprints in a readable state by next week and post the links
<sbeattie> gema: awesome, thanks!
<gema> right now, we are still all over the place, pedro_ action on me
<pedro_> #action gema to put links to the related blueprints on the TestingInUbuntu page
<meetingology> ACTION: gema to put links to the related blueprints on the TestingInUbuntu page
<pedro_> cool :-)
<pedro_> alright, anything else?
<gema> not from me
<gema> ..
<pedro_> thanks!
<pedro_> #topic Engineering Team Bug Status
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Engineering Team Bug Status
<pedro_> bdmurray, Ursinha ^
<pedro_> anything you'd like to share?
<pedro_> i've not much to say rather than , please do help us review the iso-testing bugs ;-)
<pedro_> those are listed at: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/report
<pedro_> and being filed/tagged by our awesome testing community
<pedro_> ..
<bdmurray> Yes, I've been looking at those, ubiquity, debian-installer update-manager and some no package bugs
<bdmurray> ...
<pedro_> thanks bdmurray
<pedro_> #topic Other Topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other Topics
<pedro_> anything else you'd like to raise in the meeting?
<pedro_> seems not
<pedro_> ok so the last topic on the agenda is the...
<pedro_> #topic Chair Selection
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Chair Selection
<pedro_> any volunteer for next week?
<pedro_> otherwise we can use the shuf method ;-)
<pedro_> shuf it is
<pedro_> shuf -e hggdh gema charlie-tca jibel bdmuray ursinha nuclearbob  | head -n1
<pedro_> hggdh
<pedro_> congrats hggdh ;-)
<charlie-tca> Thanks, hggdh
<pedro_> heh
<pedro_> ok that's all for today, lets go back to the ISO Testing mode!
<pedro_> thanks all for attending
<pedro_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Oct 12 17:22:28 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-12-17.00.moin.txt
<charlie-tca> pedro_: thank you for chairing this week
<nuclearbob> yeah, thanks pedro_
<pedro_> you're welcome :-)
<gema> thanks pedro_ !
<rww> @random #ubuntu-meeting #ubuntu-bots #ubuntu-bots-devel
<meetingology> rww: Error: "random" is not a valid command.
<ubottu> #ubuntu-meeting
<rww> ... that wasn't my space bar. sorry :<
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-13
<andrew5434> Hello
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct 13 15:01:02 2011 UTC.  The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * davidm waves
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20111013#preview
<NCommander> so who's here this morning?
<janimo> hi
 * davidm things the 11.10 release is fantastic
 * ogra_ too
<ogra_> nothing to discuss actually :)
<janimo> AOB? :)
<NCommander> closingmeeting in
<NCommander> 3
<ogra_> well, probably opening of armhf
<NCommander> ;-)
<janimo> when does P churn start?
<ogra_> and lets look across the specs
<janimo> rebuilds and the corresponding FTBFS that is
<ogra_> janimo, i think it started on monday
<davidm> Nice job to all that helped with everything
<ogra_> toolchain that is
<NCommander> [topic] P Blueprints
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: P Blueprints
 * ogra_ is in the middle of registering them
 * NCommander is working on drafting and editing them and their assiocated wiki pages
<NCommander> make sure you keep the PBlueprintIdeas page updated with links and such so I can find all the blueprints
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> NCommander, did you already delegate the server specs ?
<ogra_> (you said you wanted to)
<davidm> NCommander, I know robbie has been updating some of the sever bp
<NCommander> ogra_: I'm doing the reigsterations for them. After UDS and we have a better idea of what we're doing, I'll start assigning specs off
<ogra_> NCommander, you should do it before rather, else you get assigned all the BOFs
<ogra_> ;)
 * ahs3 can help with some of the server specs, if needed
<NCommander> ogra_: well, let me get them all drafted, and in next weeks meeting we'll auctionthem of
<ogra_> NCommander, and last i saw you you only had one body that can sit in one session ;)
<NCommander> [action] NCommanderto deglate serverspecs during next IRC meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: NCommanderto deglate serverspecs during next IRC meeting
<NCommander> ogra_: other-p-clone-ncommander spec requires implementation beforeUDS
 * ogra_ only misses adams specs, will do that right after the meeting 
<ogra_> NCommander, put some WIs up
<ogra_> ah, wait, tracker is closed, wont happen before P opens :P
<NCommander> yup
<NCommander> I think we've covered everything spec related
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<ogra_> yeah
<NCommander> Anyone got anything or can I close it out?
<ogra_> well, some info on hf would be nice, but i guess next meeting will do
<NCommander> no infinity :-/
<NCommander> anyway
<davidm> Yea I really wanted some info too
<ogra_> colse unless davidm objects
<NCommander> closing out in 3
<NCommander> 2
<davidm> nope I don't object
<NCommander> 1
<NCommander> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct 13 15:10:14 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-13-15.01.moin.txt
<ogra_> 10min !
<ogra_> oh my
 * ahs3 is impressed :)
 * cmagina loves the speed meetings
<mckitt1943> is there a way to use the gnome desktop with 11.10?
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-15
<amithkk> The America Board is Deleted on Ubuntu wiki!
<pleia2> amithkk: fixed
<amithkk> no,not its not https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<pleia2> the wiki is saving ;)
<pleia2> just wait a few moments
<jrgifford> Thanks pleia2 - had amithkk and I worried for a couple minutes. :)
<amithkk> thanks pleia2
<amithkk> It still seems to be a 404 here :?
<jrgifford> amithkk: relax, it'll come. :P
<amithkk> :P
<amithkk> im not in the americas board
<amithkk> lets take this out of freenode
<amithkk> I smell angry Mod
<pleia2> actually looks like I'll need to submit a bug report, the wiki keeps giving errors when I try to revert
<pleia2> amithkk: were you going to add yourself to the list?
<amithkk> nah
<amithkk> BTW I was here last month
<jrgifford> pleia2: no, I was just looking around and noticed it was gone, thought it was just me and mentioned it to amithkk who confirmed it was really gone.
<pleia2> ok, just making sure
<amithkk> jrgifford: I suspect microsoft!
<amithkk> :P
<jrgifford> amithkk: haha. Take the wisecracks to #ubuntu-offtopic dude. :P
<pleia2> indeed, this really isn't the place for such comments, it was probably just a mistake
<pleia2> I've submitted a ticket to get it fixed, thanks for bringing it to our attention
 * amithkk cant find delete button
<amithkk> ill be out , peace
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-10-09
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> ooo - rbasak in the chair....
<Daviey> \o (I'm not going to be that active this meeting.. concurrent phonecall)
<rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  9 16:00:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rbasak> â¢ jamespage and Ursinha to look into aligning release team and server team tracking reports
<jamespage> please carry forards
<rbasak> [action] jamespage and Ursinha to look into aligning release team and server team tracking reports
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage and Ursinha to look into aligning release team and server team tracking reports
<rbasak> â¢ jamespage to provide info to hggdh about how to run iSCSI and MAAS tests for the ISO
<jamespage> again I've #failed
<rbasak> Carry forwards also?
<jamespage> hggdh - I'll ping you my iscsi testing branch now
<jamespage> rbasak, yp
<rbasak> [action] jamespage to provide info to hggdh about how to run iSCSI and MAAS tests for the ISO
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to provide info to hggdh about how to run iSCSI and MAAS tests for the ISO
<rbasak> #topic Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Quantal Development
<rbasak> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
<rbasak> Final freeze is today
<rbasak> #subtopic Release Bugs
<rbasak> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<rbasak> There's one critical bug - bug 1064420 which just came in and Daviey assigned to adam_g
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1064420 in horizon (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu theme in Horizon dashboard causes formatting issues" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064420
<rbasak> Should I go through the others?
<ScottK> Final freeze is just for Main/seeded Universe packages.  Unseeded packages can still be uploaded after today.
<adam_g> rbasak: i just got notification that the new theme is done and ready for packaging. will upload this morning if zul hasn't gottne to it already
<rbasak> Great, thanks!
<arosales> rbasak: yes lets tough on the others
<rbasak> bug 978963
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 978963 in keystone (Ubuntu Precise) "add release note that OpenStack should be used on a protected network" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978963
<rbasak> This was targeted to 12.04
<rbasak> Should we still be tracking it?
<jamespage> I think it still needs documenting in the release notes
 * jamespage takes the bug to save pain
<rbasak> thanks jamespage!
<rbasak> bug 1049305
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1049305 in glance (Ubuntu) "package glance-registry 2012.1.3+stable~20120821-120fcf-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: sub-processo script post-installation instalado retornou estado de saÃ­da de erro 1" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049305
<rbasak> This looks like it's still not reproducable
<adam_g> ya im not sure about that one
<rbasak> Should we still be tracking this?
<rbasak> cjwatson: bug 1050595 is still in progress I presume?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1050595 in lowmem (Ubuntu Quantal) "Ubuntu Server installation with 128M ram hangs" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1050595
<adam_g> rbasak: i would say no, unless its confirmed
<jamespage> adam_g, +1
<rbasak> I don't have permission to remove ~ubuntu-server-release-tracking from bug 1049305
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1049305 in glance (Ubuntu) "package glance-registry 2012.1.3+stable~20120821-120fcf-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: sub-processo script post-installation instalado retornou estado de saÃ­da de erro 1" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049305
<rbasak> arosales: can you do it please?
<cjwatson> rbasak: I'll update it today or tomorrow - I've been investigating on and off, modulo secure boot pain
<rbasak> thanks cjwatson!
<cjwatson> rbasak: I think the result is going to be bouncing it to you guys for doc updates after all - what way should I do that?
<arosales> rbasak: sure, I'll update 1049305
<cjwatson> I'll check one more time but I couldn't make it work at 128M with the framebuffer on
<cjwatson> so while maybe lowmem should be updated, it's kind of moot
<jamespage> cjwatson, assign to me and I'll deal with it alongside the install size stuff
<cjwatson> ok
<rbasak> jamespage: thanks, and that answers bug 1053770 as well I guess?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1053770 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Quantal) "ubuntu-server install takes up too much space" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1053770
<jamespage> yep
<rbasak> bug 1046340
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1046340 in ntp (Ubuntu) "ntp package missing logcheck exceptions file /etc/logcheck/ignore.d.server/ntp" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1046340
<rbasak> This is currently unassigned
<rbasak> Any volunteers, or shall I leave it for next week?
<jamespage> please do
<rbasak> And finally bug 1059907
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1059907 in nova (Ubuntu) "python-nova depends on python-setuptools-git?" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1059907
<rbasak> I'm not sure zul's here so we can leave that as well as it's Low.
<zul> its not going to get fixed today unfortunately
<rbasak> What do we do for the other stuff on the release bug page?
<rbasak> I see one ARM ftbfs
<rbasak> Some MIRs
<jamespage> ftbfs looks like a non-issue - things are up-to-date
<jamespage> mirs all juju apart from the last one
<jamespage> so no longer current
<arosales> jamespage: should we touch on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<jamespage> yeah
<jamespage> rbasak, want me to do that?
<rbasak> jamespage: please!
<rbasak> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<jamespage> this is the interesting link: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<jamespage> SpamapS - hoping we get a 0.6 release of Juju today which closes a few of those....
<rbasak> Should we have this link in the regular agenda?
<jamespage> yes
 * rbasak adds it
<hallyn> for bug 1017847, i'm still debating (and will probably discuss at uds) what to do about foreign arches at lxc-create
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017847 in lxc (Ubuntu) "qemu segfaults when creating an armhf container on an amd64 host" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017847
<hallyn> so id shouldn't ahve the rls-q-tracking tg probably
<jamespage> hallyn - ok - just drop the quantal task from the bug then
<hallyn> tag?
<jamespage> zul: bug 861656 still relevant?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 861656 in nova (Ubuntu Quantal) "Kernel oops when nbd device is removed before it is unmounted" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861656
<hallyn> jamespage: i see a quantal tag, but not a task for quantal
<zul> jamespage: yeah
<jamespage> hallyn, sorry - its release-q-notfixing (just did it)
<hallyn> kthx
<hallyn> bug 1057024 also should have that tag dropped - we'll look into it during uds
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1057024 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu) "kvm kernel module always loaded, without setting /dev/kvm permissions" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057024
<jamespage> smoser: any comments on the maas related bugs?
<jamespage> bug 994781
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 994781 in maas (Ubuntu Quantal) "removing a node when it has failed commissioning is not possible from the UI" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/994781
<jamespage> bug 975468
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 975468 in maas (Ubuntu Quantal) "consider implementing a 'security group' functionality" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975468
<smoser> i'll take a look at those.
<jamespage> smoser: great - thanks
<jamespage> I'll not list them all....
<smoser> if they're not fixed in trunk at this point (som of them are) then they're not getting fixed before SRU
<jamespage> smoser: please re-target tasks as appropriate (or Won't fix if need be)
<jamespage> ivoks is not around for the dovecot one
<jamespage> rbasak, time to move on from bugs I think
<rbasak> #subtopic Blueprints
<rbasak> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-servercloud-overview.html
<jamespage> please don't ask me about servercloud-q-bug-triage-review
<jamespage> rbasak, want me to run through those as well
<rbasak> Please
 * jamespage that way I can avoid hard questions...
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-charms
<jamespage> adam_g, all on track for release?
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-qa
<jamespage> adam_g, zul - we need to start postponing those and adding them into R blueprints
<zul> agreed ill do it
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-open-attestation
<jamespage> almost done - targetting partner so can be a little late
<jamespage> m_3, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-unit-tests
<jamespage> or maybe jimbaker
<jamespage> finally https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-best-practices
<jamespage> SpamapS/m_3 again
<jimbaker> jamespage, i'm finalizing a test wrapper (jitsu test) to make the unit testing more reliable
<jamespage> I guess my final comment is that we really need to be postponing any outstanding work items that won't get done in the next 7 days
<jamespage> sorry 10 days
<jimbaker> with the idea that it can be run by either jenkins or a developer directly
<jamespage> carry stuff over to UDS-R if need be - but leave yourself enough time to prepare (rather than rushing to finish non-critical work items)
<arosales> final 10 day push :-)
<jamespage> rbasak, thats me done
<rbasak> thanks jamespage!
<jamespage> jimbaker, thanks for the update
<jamespage> np
<rbasak> #subtopic Review obsolete configs found by QA
<rbasak> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001926.html
<rbasak> arosales added this to the agenda on 14 September, but I don't see that it was discussed last week. Does this still need to be there?
<rbasak> I skip it for now then I guess
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<TheLordOfTime> rbasak, if i'm reading that right, some of those bugs were fixed
<TheLordOfTime> according to LP at elast
<jamespage> something called UDS is happening in a few weeks
<rbasak> The agenda also has: CFP deadlines -     SoCal Linux Expo (Deadline: Dec. 10) http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/cfp
<arosales> rbasak: that list may be a bit old, but we should sync up with QA on what configs are still old
<jamespage> Copenhagen
<rbasak> arosales: I presume that's tracked in the individual bugs?
<jamespage> see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2012-October/006403.html for details on how to raise sessions for discussion
<arosales> hggdh: we should sync up on cofigs, re https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001926.html
<arosales> rbasak: yes, I think they are
<rbasak> Any other events?
<arosales> rbasak: it looks like  gema has them listed under relevant bugs
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<rbasak> hggdh: over to you
<rbasak> I guess he's not here.
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Not much to report beyond the hope of having resolved bug 1021471 for most people, except it seems for people using wl. Somewhat hoping for a bit of time without new problems to get back to the known things I failed to have time for.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1021471 in Linux "clone() hang when creating new network namespace (dmesg show unregister_netdevice: waiting for lo to become free. Usage count = 2)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1021471
<smb> ..
<rbasak> Any questions for smb?
<SpamapS> smb: for the netns bug..
<SpamapS> smb: You have a fix comitted for the route cache clearing..
<SpamapS> smb: and we'll open a new bug for WL, right?
<smb> SpamapS, Right
<hallyn> smb: have you tested the 3.5.6-stable tree by chance?
<hallyn> might get us some extra review of the patch and remaining bug on SpamapS' laptop
<smb> hallyn, no that arrived later but I did not see anything addressing the first half
<smb> hallyn, for the second that seemed to be still in 3.6, right?
<smb> SpamapS, ^
<SpamapS> smb: right, its in 3.6
<SpamapS> I suspect WL is not doing something its supposed to do
<hallyn> i think so.  my point was we can get lkml to care about the bug still in upstream, but then we can get the 3.5.6-stable tree (gregkh owns it) to care about the other bug
<smb> hallyn, upstream is likely not to care that much about wl
<hallyn> anyways - awesome job finding the fix!  (or workaround)
<SpamapS> I suspect WL is not doing something its supposed to do
<SpamapS> doh sorry
<hallyn> smb: true.
<SpamapS> smb: wouldn't upstream for WL be broadcom?
<smb> SpamapS, Yeah, somehow. Not sure there is much influence on them
<smb> for part 1 i hope at some point and after some prodding we could get it to stable upstream
<SpamapS> smb: seems critical enough
<rbasak> OK, anything else for smb?
<rbasak> Thanks smb!
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> MAAS on ARM is looking good! Everything bar squashfs should ship with 12.10, with out-of-the-box support for highbank.
<rbasak> Note that a maas-enlist SRU (bug 1056816) is still pending. I posted a workaround to maas-devel.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056816 in maas-enlist (Ubuntu Precise) "maas-enlist does not post subarch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056816
<rbasak> Also, you have to use "juju bootstrap --contraints arch=arm" even if your MAAS cluster is entirely arm. I don't like this so I filed bug 1064291 on this today.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1064291 in juju "Default architecture constraint of amd64 makes no sense on arm" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064291
<rbasak> Any questions for me?
<arosales> rbasak: thanks for continuing to hammer on ARM support in MAAS :-)	
<rbasak> No problem!
<rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<SpamapS> just to revisit on Juju..
<SpamapS> I'll be releasing Juju 0.6 shortly..
<SpamapS> followed by an FFE and (hopefully) upload to quantal.
<jimbaker> SpamapS, awesome
<rbasak> That sounds great. Thanks SpamapS!
<rbasak> Any other business?
<Daviey> SpamapS: i looked at the FFe you raised last week and ack'd that.. Needs a refresh for the latest commits
<SpamapS> Daviey: right, should I open the new one?
<SpamapS> Daviey: *technically* all the commits just fix bugs in the local provider... but.. with a major refactoring ;)
<Daviey> SpamapS: nah, just bump the latest one
<Daviey> SpamapS: I'm pretty sure it's a documentation exercise right now, but would be good to confirm.
<SpamapS> Daviey: agreed
<SpamapS> Daviey: the new local provider is less broken than the old one, but still a major change late in the release.
<jamespage> SpamapS, feel free to use bug 1063697
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1063697 in juju (Ubuntu Quantal) "[FFe] Please update to new snapshot release ~bzr592" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1063697
<jamespage> I think I did most of the doc work already
<SpamapS> jamespage: sweet
<rbasak> I guess that's it then.
<rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<rbasak> The next meeting will be at Tue, 16 Oct 2012 16:00:00 +0000.
<rbasak> Thanks everyone!
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  9 16:52:26 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-09-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-09-16.00.html
<arosales> rbasak: thanks for chair'ing :-)
<SpamapS> rbasak: yes, ^5
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  9 17:00:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Quantal
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<herton> o/
<henrix> o/
<rtg_> o/
<sconklin> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Q/omap4: nothing new to report this week.
<ppisati> Q/master-next: patches were submitted to fix the usb bus on omap3 boards (see lp 1061599 for more info).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1061599 in linux (Ubuntu Quantal) "beagle: omap3: usb is dead" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061599
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.10.html
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 2 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-version-and-flavors || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || desktop-q-xorg-lts-updates      || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> I am now the proud owner of all remaining work items.  I'll be sure to
<ogasawara> close these out asap.  I don't think we need to have this item on our
<ogasawara> agenda for the remaining meetings this release.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have received a freeze exception and are planning to upload the
<ogasawara> 3.5.0-18.28 today.  This will provide critical bug fixes for the 12.10
<ogasawara> release.  The bugs include:
<ogasawara>  * 1063061 "please backport support for EFI vars > 1KB"
<ogasawara>  * 1061599 "beagle: omap3: usb is dead"
<ogasawara>  * 1021471 "clone() hang when creating new network namespace"
<ogasawara>  * 1030233 "not have bluetooth usb 0489:e046 Foxconn / Hon Hai"
<ogasawara>  * 717970 "After sleep, key presses get lost and trackpad is jittery"
<ogasawara> As a reminder, because we are in kernel freeze, all patches are subject
<ogasawara> to the SRU policy and only critical bug fixes will warrent an upload.
<ogasawara> Non critical bug fixes and changes will be targetted to the first
<ogasawara> Quantal SRU kernel. As usual, all kernels will also get uploaded to the
<ogasawara> q-lts-backport [1] PPA to help facilitate testing of the 12.10 kernel in
<ogasawara> 12.04.  We welcome anyone to please install, test, and let us know your
<ogasawara> feedback.
<ogasawara> [1] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Tues Oct 9 - Final Freeze (today!)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Oct 11 - Release Candidate (~2days)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Oct 18 - 12.10 Final (~1 week)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2012-10-09 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 39 CVEs on our radar, with one CVE added and one retired this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<henrix> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (October 09):
<henrix>  * Hardy - In -updates; 1 CVEs; (1 commits)
<henrix>  * Lucid - In Testing; 3 CVEs; (12 commits)
<henrix>  * Oneiric - In Testing; 2 CVEs; 1 upstream stable release(s); (54 commits)
<henrix>  * Precise - In Testing; 1 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (234 commits)
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix> Future stable cadence cycles:
<henrix>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  9 17:04:35 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-09-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-09-17.00.html
<arges> missed it
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<sconklin> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-10-10
<balloons> gout morgen
<balloons> anyone about?
<jibel> hi balloons
<AndChat|698676> Good morning jibel.
<AndChat|698676> Hello balloons!
<balloons> good morning
<balloons> I guess that means I can begin
<balloons> #startmeeting ubuntu qa community
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Oct 10 14:06:50 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:
<balloons> ok, agenda time
<balloons> ACTION: balloons to update qa.ubuntu.com theme
<balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  Previous Actions
<balloons> I still have the action to do the update -- it's still in progress.. I don't like holding it around for this long. I think I will remove it from the agenda and report when it's complete
<balloons> moving on
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Updates
<smartboyhw> balloons, what did I miss?
<epikvision> Ok I'm back.
<smartboyhw> Hi also epikvision
<balloons> This week the RC iso's will come out, culminating a cycle's worth of effort by everyone
<epikvision> Good morning smartboyhw
<balloons> smartboyhw, nothing really
<smartboyhw> balloons, oh?
<epikvision> What's more recommended? Fresh install of RC or upgrade to RC
<epikvision> From stable build?
<balloons> Testing is being focused on the new features for quantal for those who have upgraded.. Things like the new unity, the new suggestions feature, the webapps integration
<balloons> epikvision, ahh from yourself running precise?
<epikvision> I have a computer on precise, and another on daily build.
<balloons> you may do etheir, both with test things, but in different ways
<balloons> upgrade testing is always helpful
<smartboyhw> Yeah:D
<smartboyhw> ..
<balloons> quickly, do we have any other comments on ubuntu? I sent a mail as well talking about ARM testing and looking for regressions. At this point in the cycle, we must really be mindful of not regressing on features from previous releases, or from earlier in the cycle even
<smartboyhw> balloons, no:D
<balloons> if not, we'll move into the open topics :-)
<smartboyhw> :_)
<balloons> [TOPIC] Other Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  Other Updates
<balloons> ok, anyone have anything to share?
<smartboyhw> \o
<balloons> go ahead smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> balloons, few questions
<epikvision> How do I upgrade a package? My libreoffice on daily build still has that text selection bug, but fix has been released. How can I upgrade my Libreoffice to the updated package?
<smartboyhw> 1. The Ubuntu Studio post-installation testcase is going to be ported today from the sandbox to the main area, just a inform:D
<epikvision> Sorry smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> epikvision, NP we can talk about it later but it is a QA meeting not a support channel:D
<smartboyhw> 2. Since I come to the meeting late balloons is the QA site still not fixed?
<balloons> 1) Excellent news
<balloons> 2) No it's still not
<smartboyhw> Alright then
<smartboyhw> 3. Where is phillw?
<smartboyhw> :D
<balloons> but it's still on the list.. It's not been forgotten
<balloons> it likely won't happen till after release, when there aren't release critical pieces to work on
<smartboyhw> :)
<balloons> any other questions?
<smartboyhw> balloons, you saw my third question?:D
<balloons> phillw, I would gather is on the earth somewhere.. most likely his home country, and most likely his home
<smartboyhw> balloons, LOL
<smartboyhw> Anyway nothing:D
<smartboyhw> ..
<balloons> hehe
<balloons> with that, I think we're done, heh
<smartboyhw> Ya
<smartboyhw> *Yay
<balloons> I hope everyone is ready and gearing up for greatness
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Oct 10 14:23:58 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-10-14.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-10-14.06.html
<smartboyhw> balloons, thx
<balloons> ofc
<ogra_> foo
<smartboyhw> boo
<xnox> moo
<jodh> huloo
<ev> hi
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Oct 10 15:02:19 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * stgraber waves
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> infinity jodh doko stokachu barry slangasek xnox cjwatson ev ogra stgraber bdmurray
<infinity> This week:
<infinity>  - working on glibc-2.16 + patches for R
<infinity>  - archive cleanup
<infinity>  - general release prep
<infinity>  - fixed the Pandas to stop timing out builds
<infinity>  - laundry
<infinity> â­
<jodh> - libnih: Fixed bug 740390, raised SRU for precise (bug 1062202)
<jodh>   and pushed fix to precise-proposed.
<jodh> - upstart:
<jodh>   - Identified and fixed bridge respawn issue.
<doko> rinse the panda's?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 740390 in libnih (Ubuntu Precise) "libdbus-1-3 upgrade does not respawn init, resulting in unclean shutdown" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740390
<jodh>   - Wrote more tests.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1062202 in libnih (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] libnih upgrade does not respawn init, resulting in unclean shutdown" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1062202
<ogra_> whee, so you wont be in smelly t-shits at UDS ?
<jodh> - ifupdown: identified cause of recent unclean shutdowns (bug 740390)
<jodh> - TODO:
<doko> please go on without me
<jodh>   - finish Upstart tests and bridge auto-reconnect.
<jodh>   - work on bug 1060249 and other rel bugs.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1060249 in debconf (Ubuntu Quantal) "frontend crashed with signal 5 in free_pending_nulls()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060249
<jodh>   - Upstream D-Bus changes for connection handling over a stateful re-exec.
<jodh> á§¿
<jodh>  
<infinity> Hrm, that character fails to fit on one line.
<infinity> stokachu: ?
<stokachu> no doko
<infinity> 09:04 < doko> please go on without me
<slangasek> he said to go on without him
<stokachu> ah sorry
<stokachu> http://pad.lv/794112 - sitting in unapproved queue since 9/28, anything I can do to move this along?
<stokachu> http://pad.lv/1036834 - based on recent email discussions and the impact of this bug I'd still like to have this pushed into Precise.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 794112 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu Precise) "Kerberos + LDAP + NFSv4 - Unable to recover unattended client" [High,In progress]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1036834 in gdb (Ubuntu Precise) "[FFe] gdb should be marked "Multi-arch: allowed"" [High,In progress]
<stokachu> done
<infinity> stokachu: I can look at the stuck upload there.
<barry> bug 1061149 (reported).  bug 711162 (pushed upstream).  bug 1060489.  bug 915626 (investigated).  bug 1063980 (reported).  bug 1056811 (investigated).  patch piloted.  general bug triaging.  python-mode 6.0.12-{1,2} for sid.  gwibber py3 reviews and merges.  done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1061149 in acpi-support (Ubuntu) "boot occasionally hangs while "Checking battery state..."" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061149
<infinity> stokachu: I think SRU has been slacking in lead-up to Q release.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 711162 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu Quantal) "ubuntuone-login crashed with ValueError in call_async(): Unable to guess signature from an empty dict" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711162
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1060489 in claws-mail-extra-plugins (Ubuntu) "FTBFS due to build-dep conflicts" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060489
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 915626 in usb-creator (Ubuntu Quantal) "usb-creator-gtk crashed with SIGSEGV" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/915626
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1063980 in unity (Ubuntu) "Regression in animation speed" [Undecided,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1063980
<stokachu> infinity: cool thanks im getting h34t from management
<stokachu> infinity: ah no worries
<cjwatson> slangasek: your turn, I think
<doko> sorry, door bell. back again
<stokachu> the milkman?
<slangasek> no, it's doko's turn ;)
<cjwatson> :-)
<ogra_> <doko> please go on without me
<ogra_> :)
<doko> - monitoring the panda zoo, called is emergency line twice this we to re-enable the pandas
<doko> - remaining MIR's
<doko> - fixing build failures
<doko> - prepare for r-series opening
<doko> - libhybris work
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> barry: 1061149 should either be kernel or pm-utils, fwiw; acpi-support has no bugs because it has no real remaining code ;)
<slangasek> infinity, doko: so are we copacetic now as a result of the sysctl panda change?
<barry> slangasek: ah, cool.  maybe i'll add them both and let those teams deathmatch on them
<cjwatson> It's almost all good
<infinity> slangasek: It all looks pretty decent.
<cjwatson> rusalka fell over a few times and looks independently broken
<infinity> slangasek: I think it's as good as it's gonna get until we get new hardware, and good enough to hobble along for now.
<cjwatson> So it's being left disabled for now
<infinity> cjwatson: rusalka is dead for entirely different reasons AFAICT.
<cjwatson> Right, as I said :-)
<infinity> cjwatson: It's actually hard locking, not timing out.
<cjwatson> Independently broken
<doko> slangasek, infinity: there are some builds which failed due to bad file system, e.g. files in /var/lib/dpkg, giving these back usually lets the build succeed
<doko> I haven't seen any new ones this week
<cjwatson> doko: Yeah, similarly occasionally they fail to get their chroot tarball right
<slangasek> ok, but at least the buildd manager isn't losing sight of the builders
<infinity> doko: Yeah, that's not new behaviour, and I'm not sure we have a fix for that.
<cjwatson> I think I saw one or two
<infinity> slangasek: Nope, buildd-manager and the buildds seem to be mostly getting along.
<slangasek> excellent
<slangasek>  * short week, celebrating National White Hegemony of the New World Day
<slangasek>  * mountall bugfix upload: bug #1063061 (SB support), bug #1060296 (cloud-affecting regression from my cloud boot fix)
<infinity> slangasek: (Well, there was one occurence of lp-buildd not waking up fast enough, but that's been a problem for years, nothing new)
<slangasek>  * Secure Boot: shim uploaded, signed by MS, and re-uploaded as shim-signed; d-i, grub2 integration tag-teaming w/ cjwatson
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1063061 in linux (Ubuntu Quantal) "please backport support for EFI vars > 1KB" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1063061
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1060296 in mountall (Ubuntu Quantal) "'df /' reports Filesystem '-'" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060296
<slangasek>  * fix update-notifier regression caused by us not having a good way to block bad translations of variable names (bug #1003100)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1003100 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Quantal) "package-data-downloader: KeyError: 'paquetes'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1003100
<slangasek>  * multiarch review of appmenu-gtk (bug #932860), kicked it back with further fixes needed, sorry stokachu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 932860 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu Precise) "Broken (or missing) multiarch support" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/932860
<slangasek> (done)
<infinity> stokachu: Accepted.
<slangasek> infinity: well, bugs can be "nothing new" yet become a huge problem suddenly due to timing / scaling?
<slangasek> infinity: is that happening here with any of the remaining arm-affecting bugs?
<infinity> slangasek: True, and I aim to fix the launchpad-buildd swapping out thing at some point, but it's not preventing us from working.
<cjwatson> slangasek: In this case, not a big problem, chort sat there for a few hours and had to be resurrected
<slangasek> ok
<infinity> slangasek: The current state of affairs is "good enoug for now".
<xnox> * rls-q-tracking:
<xnox>  - bug 1056300 turned out to be changes in gtk+, now reverted and that
<xnox>    brought back screen reading to ubiquity. This unblocks me on
<xnox>    working on remaining a11y ubiquity rls-q-tracking bugs.
<xnox> * working on ubiquity's rls-q-tracking bugs and adv-lvm
<xnox> * Short week, was off friday-monday.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056300 in GTK+ "If a GTK application quits the main loop and restarts it again, accessibility is lost." [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056300
<xnox> ..
<cjwatson> Finished armel/main rebuild for ARMv5t.
<cjwatson> Lots of build fixes, buildd babysitting, and general +1 maintenance work; trying to get most of the relevant lists to zero for release.
<cjwatson> Applied Wookey's aarch64 config.guess/config.sub patches.
<cjwatson> Panting for breath down the home stretch of UEFI secure boot support:
<cjwatson>  * Merged a few tweaks from Fedora.
<cjwatson>  * Implemented kernel handling policy.
<cjwatson>  * Created a separate signed image for use on removable media.
<cjwatson>  * Arranged for grub-install to install signed images if appropriate.
<cjwatson>  * Fixed up grub-efi-amd64-signed to do the installation.
<cjwatson>  * Attempted to make the installer install the necessary packages when the SecureBoot variable is set.
<cjwatson> Merged the bits of the sponsoring-queue patch for bug 632382 that I'm happy with (i.e. the Upstart job).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 632382 in console-setup (Ubuntu Precise) "Console font does not get set" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/632382
<cjwatson> ..
<ev> - Finishing up the webops sprint in BlueFin.
<ev>   - We now have charms for daisy, the retracers, and errors. Basic
<ev>     documentation exists at:
<ev>     https://wiki.canonical.com/ErrorTracker/Deployment
<ev>     Oddly, adding support for configuration options (the EC2 keys for daisy
<ev>     and daisy-retracer) is confusing the AMQP relationship, which is calling
<ev>     config-changed rather than relation-changed. Looking into it.
<ev>   - We now backend to S3 for the core file storage. This should make the
<ev>     infrastructure far more scalable.
<ev> - Firefighting the retracers again. This time it what first appeared to be a
<ev>   unicode issue deep inside apport's report writing code, but looks to be more
<ev>   like some bogus data coming from the slightly older version of gdb we're
<ev>   running on the retracers. Still investigating.
<ev>   - Tom would like me to come up with a better way of handling programming
<ev>     errors in the retracer path. Right now we bring the retracers down hard
<ev>     whenever apport-retrace or the wrapping code raises an exception. One
<ev>     alternative is to throw the crashes which trigger an exception on a
<ev>     separate rabbit queue to be evaluated by me without having to involve
<ev>     webops too much.
<ev> - Got a change to daisy deployed that starts collecting by-problem type counts
<ev>   of instances every day. Modified errors to then show us "all collected" and
<ev>   "by 12.04 standards" (in the case of 12.10) lines. This latter line is all
<ev>   the problem types minus the RecoverableError type, which didn't exist in
<ev>   12.04.
<ev>   - Refactored the legend code to cope with the "all collected" and "by XX.XX
<ev>     standards" subtypes.
<ev> - Taught errors to change the URL to match the 'most common problems' table
<ev>   selection. This will teach people the URL parameters they can load the
<ev>   website with:
<ev>   http://errors.ubuntu.com/?package=software-center
<ev>   It will also make the Awesome Bar in Firefox more Awesome, according to Seb.
<ev> - Meeting with legal counsel to work through our crashes privacy policy.
<ev> - Started to look into generating a crash signature for kernel oops reports at
<ev>   Andy's request.
<ev> (done)
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_>  * 80% of my time was spent in an internal project (the stuff there is coming along nicely)
<ogra_>  * worked around an issue with libreoffice on arm (LP: #1062448)
<ogra_>  * uploaded nvidia-tegra drivers
<ogra_>  * added a new arch to flash-kernel
<ogra_>  * various image tests etc
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1062448 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Quantal) "soffice.bin crashed with SIGSEGV in lucene::index::IndexFileNames::fileNameFromGeneration()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1062448
<ogra_>  * was a good citizen and managed to do my piloting shift this time round :)
<ogra_>  
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_>  * register specs for the shiny new upcoming R tasks
<ogra_>  * do a 12.10 release with arm images !
<ogra_> ..
<stgraber>  - Attended LTSP by the sea from Thursday to Sunday
<stgraber>  - Monday was a public holiday
<stgraber>  - Container
<stgraber>    - Upstream work, reviewing patches, maintaining staging branch. Starting cherry-pick of fixes for 0.8 upstream release.
<stgraber>  - Release
<stgraber>    - Quite a bunch of queue reviews
<stgraber>    - Some FFe/UIFe reviews
<stgraber>  - Networking
<stgraber>    - Fixed some regression introduced in ifupdown when we dropped the sysvinit script (bug 1061639)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1061639 in ifupdown (Ubuntu Quantal) "Upstartification of /etc/init.d/networking has lost deconfiguring-networking event causing bad side-effects" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061639
<stgraber>    - Updated ifenslave-2.6 to work with biosdevname (bug 948538)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 948538 in ifenslave-2.6 (Ubuntu) "eth* device names hardcoded in debian/pre-up script" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/948538
<stgraber>    - Updated isc-dhcp-server to fix apparmor profile for isc-dhcp-server-ldap (bug 1057358)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1057358 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Precise) "dhcpd in isc-dhcp-server-ldap cannot read /etc/ldap/ldap.conf due to missing entry in apparmor profile" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057358
<stgraber>    - Went through the networking related bugs, did some cleanup.
<stgraber>  - Installer
<stgraber>    - Did a firmware upgrade on my laptop (took a while to figure out how exactly to do it), now have a new UEFI with SecureBoot support.
<stgraber>    - Spent some more time on casper, got the bug count down to something reasonable and uploaded a bunch of bugfixes.
<stgraber>    - Uploaded a new ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu with updated screenshots, the ubuntu-gnome slideshow and refreshed translations. (bug 1064232, bug 1051162)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1064232 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu Quantal) "[FFe] New screenshots for installer slideshow in Ubuntu 12.10" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064232
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1051162 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "FFe: ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu-gnome" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1051162
<stgraber>    - Refreshed the edubuntu-live installer steps translations.
<stgraber>    - Did some work on post-install preseed generation, will try to get a prototype out today.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber>  - Travel/Schedule
<stgraber>    - I'm off tomorrow and Friday, back on Monday working from Switzerland until UDS
<stgraber> (DONE)
<bdmurray> debugged tested and fixed ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1058102
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for bug 964674 to quantal
<bdmurray> SRU preparation and work for update-manager bug 964674
<bdmurray> SRU preparation and work on update-manager bug 1060353
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1058102 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Quantal) "The strings in "ubuntu-release-upgrader" are not translated in UI" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058102
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 964674 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "update-manager fails to display an error message" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/964674
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1060353 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "DistUpgradeApport.py causes an apport assertion error" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060353
<bdmurray> bug testing / research into usb-creator bug 915626
<bdmurray> bug testing / research into update-manager bug 1051110
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 523896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 915626 in usb-creator (Ubuntu Quantal) "usb-creator-gtk crashed with SIGSEGV" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/915626
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1051110 in update-manager (Ubuntu Quantal) "ucf debconf prompt lands in hidden terminal instead of using gnome frontend" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1051110
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 523896 in shadow (Ubuntu Precise) "useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later." [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523896
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> regarding those update-manager SRUs I'd like to get them through the SRU process as soon as possible
<infinity> bdmurray: Poke me post-meeting, and we'll see what can be done.
<bdmurray> infinity: thanks
 * slangasek clears his scrollback
<slangasek> any questions?
<bdmurray> jodh: is anything more needed for bug 1060249?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1060249 in debconf (Ubuntu Quantal) "frontend crashed with signal 5 in free_pending_nulls()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060249
<jodh> bdmurray: unsure - I've been focussing on Upstart. I saw the latest stack trace but need to dig around. All help welcome at this stage :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<bdmurray> jodh: okay, I've a virtual machine that I just rebooted and received that crash report
<bdmurray> bug 1064391 seems like something that could be notfixing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1064391 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "panda boot device selection label is "Help for GRUB device selection goes here"" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064391
<slangasek> jodh: it sounds from your report like the bridge crash on re-exec issue is sorted now, yes?  Can you refocus your attention on that debconf bug?  We should really get that knocked out this week so we can get the fix on the CD
<xnox> bdmurray: it needs design. As this is the case of: we are not going to install grub as there is only one way to install bootloader anyway.
<jodh> slangasek: indeed! Right - will do.
<slangasek> jodh: thanks
<cjwatson> Uh, we always used to hide that label on non-x86
<cjwatson> It's a regression if we now do - doesn't need design
<cjwatson> *now don't
<slangasek> xnox: "needs design" certainly implies "not going to be fixed for this release"; but as cjwatson says, that sounds like something that should be hidden
<xnox> hmm.. ok, will check.
<slangasek> what are you guys looking at as far as further installer uploads between now and release?
<slangasek> I've seen a number of ubiquity bugs getting targeted that weren't there before
<infinity> I'm considering twiddling omap image sizes for bug #1040393 before release, but only if I can test it well locally.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1040393 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Precise) "omap netboot partition too small for flash-kernel backup procedure" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040393
<cjwatson> Personally my plans involve only whatever turns up in SB testing
<cjwatson> I have serious doubts I'll be able to fit in anything else
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> I don't mind if xnox manages to squeeze in some screen reading fixes; those are typically nonintrusive
 * xnox ponders if it was me over-targeting ubiquity bugs...
<slangasek> xnox: you seem to have the lion's share of targeted ubiquity bugs assigned to yourself, what's your game plan?
<slangasek> xnox: short answer: yes ;)
<xnox> slangasek: my plan is unintrusive small fixes, or bumping to r.
<cjwatson> And the lowmem bug I'm going to punt, I just haven't got round to writing up my findings yet
<infinity> bdmurray: Don't poke me post-meeting after all, update-manager is reviewed and accepted.
<cjwatson> xnox: I kind of feel bug 1056744 should be higher-priority than the screen reader bugs, maybe?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1056744 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "Ubiquity crashes after creating an encrypted partition manually" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056744
<xnox> cjwatson: yeah, probably. more chances of hitting that one.
<slangasek> bdmurray: you had accepted 1059471 from the -incoming queue, but I'm not convinced this is something we should commit to... it's a corner case involving mounting via symlink
<slangasek> and I don't think we're going to get a chance to fix that before release
<slangasek> bdmurray: any reason you think my assessment there is wrong and we should make room for it on the priority list?
<cjwatson> usb-creator is probably broken in 12.10 (udisks2 etc.), as discussed, but I have a feeling we should target that to SRUs at this point; it's not install-critical that it be right in the released images
<xnox> bug 1053030 is interesting and mostly affects e.g. panda boards when user didn't plugin external storage and hence need some guards for R-series.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1053030 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "highly confusing UI on desktop when installation media is big enough and no external storage is attached" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1053030
<bdmurray> slangasek: I think you added the quantal task I just removed the rls-q-incoming tag
<slangasek> well, right
<bdmurray> because it had a quantal task
<xnox> you cannot run usb-creator sensibly from the live-session any way.
<bdmurray> but no I don't think it should be a priority
<slangasek> bdmurray: but quantal task + rls-q-incoming means "targeted to release but no decision made yet on whether to commit"
<xnox> slangasek: according to skaet the tags are redudant if there is series task with any state.
<cjwatson> OK, I've updates-ified the usb-creator bugs
<xnox> slangasek: that applies to rls-q-wontfix as well.
<slangasek> which was what I meant :)  so if you weren't removing the tag as a sign of making a decision, then ok
<cjwatson> hmph, I didn't have slangasek's understanding of that combination
<slangasek> xnox: that's incorrect
<cjwatson> useful distinction to have
<slangasek> community members can target bugs to the release; that does not imply canonical-foundations has a committment to fix them
<xnox> slangasek: horum. please clarify the combinations of tags with series tags then, somewhere on the mailing list then.
<bdmurray> ' the nomination should not be accepted without assigning the bug task to a person or team and the 'rls-q-incoming' tag removed. '
<xnox> slangasek: and assignees.
<cjwatson> yeah, except lots of people can make-and-accept nominations in one shot
<slangasek> bdmurray: ok, I think that needs revisited
<cjwatson> and indeed have no way to just nominate, if they have that privilege
<infinity> Yeah, there's that.
<slangasek> anyway, -notfixing this bug for now
<bdmurray> slangasek: yes and clarified on the RCBugTargetting page
<cjwatson> so the documentation bdmurray quotes is insufficiently informed about Launchpad
 * xnox ... aren't we all?!
<slangasek> xnox: I refer to my original mail on this subject ;)
<xnox> slangasek: i shall added to my bookmarks then.
<slangasek> bug #1016643
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1016643 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "add-apt-repository downloads gpg key in an insecure fashion" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016643
<slangasek> pinged mvo on the bug last week, no response
<slangasek> pinged on IRC now :)
<slangasek> anything else that's a concern on that bug list?
<slangasek> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> regarding bug 997200 its seems like the underlying issue is bug 346386
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 997200 in network-manager (Ubuntu R-series) "update-manager can't handle hotel web access pages" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/997200
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 346386 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "[MASTER] Update fails with invalid package files with "Encountered a section with no Package: header"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346386
<cjwatson> There's an even earlier bug.
<cjwatson> bug 24061
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 24061 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "GPG error with apt-get/aptitude/update-manager behind proxy (BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24061
<slangasek> is that *still* not fixed?
<cjwatson> It keeps getting fixed for some cases and popping up for more.
<bdmurray> well 346386 mvo fixed in quantal according to the changelog
<cjwatson> Because apt is awesome and similar code exists in like ten different places.
<slangasek> heh
<cjwatson> See my analysis in bug 24061 comments 66 and 67
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 24061 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "GPG error with apt-get/aptitude/update-manager behind proxy (BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24061
<cjwatson> But I think realistically we're going to end up punting for yet another release.
<slangasek> meh
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> -updates would be nice though, as it happens *all the time*
<slangasek> would it make a difference to have a step-by-step reproducer?
<slangasek> oh, you did that :-)
<cjwatson> That was what I was trying to provide with the stunt proxy code I posted to 24061.
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> What we fundamentally need to do is lock Michael and David in a room until it's fixed :-)
<cjwatson> I tried my best at the time but didn't understand the necessary fix well enoug
<cjwatson> h
<cjwatson> Some kind of proxy hack ought to go in apt's test suite,imo
<bdmurray> so the apt change in quantal is likely insufficient?
<slangasek> so should we mark 997200 as a duplicate and bump that one in the queue?
<cjwatson> bdmurray: I suspect yet another partial fix
<cjwatson> Though hmm, it seems to have at least tried to be more comprehensive
<cjwatson> Try with my proxy and see what happens?
<bdmurray> yes I will do that
<stokachu> infinity: thanks man
<cjwatson> comments 90 and 92 assert it still happens but don't bother to mention a release
<bdmurray> I believe that is precise
<cjwatson> However Ursula says it still affects her on quantal, in comment 94
<cjwatson> Although, if it broke for you once you have to do manual cleanup, and I don't know if she did that
<bdmurray> she and I talked about it this morning and she says she has not run into it
<cjwatson> So it's possible that was a relic
<bdmurray> yes
<cjwatson> If miracles have happened and that's a complete fix, we should SRU it and have some kind of party
<xnox> cjwatson: and crown  somebody "Cluedo" champion?
<cjwatson> It looks like the branch that landed included a dummy webserver
<cjwatson> Which is definitely the right approach
<bdmurray> looking at logs I don't think Ursula had cleared her lists after getting the new apt
<infinity> Even if it's not a complete fix, I wonder if it might not be a bad idea to have something that detects the badness and does a bit of cleanup so users don't have to.
<infinity> But, if we're confident it's actually fixed, that becomes dead code, I suppose.
<infinity> The whole time, though, the failure mode has actually been far worse than the bug itself.
<infinity> If it could have just said "yeah, stuff's broken, cleaning up so you can try again", people wouldn't mind as much. :P
<stokachu> infinity: if you got a second would you approve bug 683640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 683640 in lsb (Ubuntu Precise) "status_of_proc is returning incorrect error code" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683640
<slangasek> bdmurray: you're following up on that bug then, to see if the quantal apt passes cjwatson's test?
<bdmurray> slangasek: yes indeed
<bdmurray> and if it passes I look at a precise SRU
<slangasek> bdmurray: perfect, thanks
<slangasek> any other bugs?
<infinity> stokachu: The analysis of that bug seems wrong to me.
<bdmurray> not from me
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> Any other business?
<bdmurray> I am out on Friday
<mvo> meh, so #24061 reappeared?
<slangasek> mvo: we don't know, the bug hasn't been closed :)
<stokachu> infinity: from comment #2?
<mvo> oh
<slangasek> (at least, not recently)
<slangasek> mvo: bdmurray will check
<mvo> ok - this time the fix includes a proxy inspired by the one from cjwatson to guard against regressions
<mvo> *fingerscrossed*
<cjwatson> Right, could be nobody noticed that it closed #24061
<cjwatson> Glad to know my suggestion was useful :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Oct 10 15:58:44 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-10-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-10-15.02.html
<slangasek> have a good release week, everyone :)
<mvo> I will ask for he feedback of bdmurray but it should be fixed in Q
<ogra_> thanks !
 * xnox thanks.
<infinity> stokachu: Hop on mumble.
<stokachu> ok
<jodh> thx
<stgraber> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-10-11
<bootljhfdsds> http://goo.gl/yFOzQ
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-10-12
 * smartboyhw wonders is it meeting time...
<skaet> yup
<skaet> :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Oct 12 15:00:45 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<seb128> hey ;-)
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-10-12.
<skaet> Upcoming dates:
<skaet> 12.10
<skaet>     2012/10/16 - Unseeded Universe Final Freeze
<skaet>     October 18 - 12.10 Release
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs:
<skaet> Development teams are trying to fix: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> To be considered for fixing: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> .
<skaet> Work Items:
<skaet> 21012/10/12 - 2792 (was 2997 - 2012/10/05):  (some being retargetted to R series now)
<skaet> If something is clearly not going to make it for the release, please mark it POSTPONED.
<skaet> Thanks to those who sent in status emails,  if there are recent additions, could you please paste the link here in the channel,  since there werenât that many when I checked earlier this morning...
<skaet> .
<skaet> Weekly Status Received:
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002037.html  - QA - plars
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002033.html - desktop - didrocks
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002032.html - security - mdeslaur
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002039.html  - HWCert - brendand
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002036.html - kernel - ogasawara
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002048.html - community - balloons
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002047.html - server - arosales
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002046.html - linaro - fabo
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002043.html - Unity - popey
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002041.html - foundations - ogra_
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002038.html  - kubuntu - RIddell
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002042.html  - Ubuntu Studio - smartboyhw
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-October/002040.html  - Lubuntu - gilir
<skaet> - ubuntu one
<skaet> - edubuntu - stgraber
<skaet> - xubuntu - knome
<skaet> ..
<skaet> thanks to those who had them in yesterday.  I tried to pick up the ones that landed this morning,
<skaet> but may have missed some.
<arosales> skaet: apologies for server being so tardy
<arosales> ..
<skaet> if there are any late additions,  please post them in the channel.
<skaet> :)
<skaet> arosales,  got some questions for you,  so close enough ;)
<skaet> and on that note
<skaet> #topic comments and questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: comments and questions
<Riddell> hi
 * ogra_ is here 
<skaet> can we have a round of hello's, etc.  so I can see who is here
 * smartboyhw is here
<gilir> hi
<roadmr> hey!
<plars> hi
<arosales> hello
<seb128> hey!
<mdeslaur> hello
<brendand> hi
<popey> o/
<smartboyhw> That's a lot of people:D
<doko> hi
<skaet> thanks!   great,  looks like we should have quorum for some of the questions.
<xnox> hola!
<Riddell> are we nearly there yet?
<skaet> First question,   any release blockers on people's radar that haven't made their way into the #ubuntu-release channel?
<skaet> Riddell,  yup,  nearly there.   ;)
<skaet> one more week to go.
<skaet> I know that Kubuntu is likely to need at least one more respin after this current set of images publishes.
<seb128> skaet, we figured out that thunderbird indicator-messages integration got broken with the tb16 updates in quantal, not really a blocker but one of those annoying bugs
<seb128> just mentioning it
<seb128> ..
 * smartboyhw is waiting for the set of new images:D
<skaet> seb128, thanks for mentioning,  is there a bug number
<highvoltage> fo/
<seb128> skaet, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1065919
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1065919 in thunderbird (Ubuntu Quantal) "thunderbird 16 updates broke messaging menu integration" [High,New]
<skaet> thanks seb128.
<seb128> skaet, chris already has a fix and will upload to proposed so your call if you want it in or as a SRU
<skaet> perfect.   :)  ok will look into it after the meeting.
<skaet> ..
<micahg_> FWIW, the thunderbird issue only affects edubuntu and ubuntu, not xubuntu
<skaet> go highvoltage  (if that's a question, otherwise,  hello ;) )
<highvoltage> (sorry, it was a hello on a bad wifi connection)
<skaet> micahg,  good input.  will make sure to note that on the pad
<skaet> anything on the worry list from the edubuntu side highvoltage?
<highvoltage> skaet: nothing new has popped up, at least
<skaet> good to know.  ok.
<arosales> \o
<skaet> go arosales
<arosales> not a release blocker, but something we'll need to address soon after release is cloud-images for Azure; bug 1065070 and bug 1055686
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1065070 in linux (Ubuntu) "initrd not being loaded on Windows Azure" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1065070
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1055686 in Ubuntu "Ubuntu 12.10 cloud images do not full provision on Azure" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055686
<arosales> still under investigation. Documented in the quantal release notes.
<skaet> Thanks for that arosales.   that was going to be my next question.  ;)
<skaet> other question I had for you,   was on the MAAS on ARM.   What is the outlook there?
<arosales> skaet: highbank support for MAAS should be there.
<arosales> we'll need to do an new hardware SRU to include armadaxp. The ground work is there, but the ephemeral images need updated.
<skaet> arosales, understood.  :/
<arosales> ..
<skaet> Riddell,   are there any of the issues outstanding that you were mentioning konversation translations, investigate and hopefully fix apport crash on reporting a bug, fix kubuntu active broken widget on line in your summary,  that we should be treating as blockers?
 * skaet should have stuck quotes around part from Riddell's email,  sorry.
<Riddell> I was wondering :)
<Riddell> that ubiquity issue is fix committed so I expect a respin for that
<Riddell> the other one was I was hoping to get kubuntu-doc translations in but I guess that's too late
<Riddell> nudge nudge Darkwing
<Riddell> the other issues I have my eye on I can live with
<skaet> ok.  thanks.
<skaet> ..?
 * skaet assumes so
<Riddell> ..
<skaet> :)
<ogra_> on arm there is bug 1065902
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1065902 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "black/blue screen before installer, tty switch fixes it" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1065902
<ogra_> that one looks a bit worrying, i think ppisati is still collecting debug data though
<skaet> thanks ogra_ - will add it to the list to monitor closely then.
<skaet> ..?
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> :)
<ogra_> :)
<skaet> popey,   it looked like there were things lined up for SRU updates, but nothing left on the release blocker list for unity stack team.   Is this accurate?
<popey> we have some things lined up for SRU0 yes, still poking for a few more fixes if we can squeeze them in
<popey> but no blockers I'm aware of
<popey> ..
<skaet> Thanks popey.  :)  delighted to hear that!
<skaet> anyone else have questions about this upcoming week?
<popey> we also had awesome help from didrocks & gord to slip in a last minute update yesterday to alleviate some legal questions.
<popey> ..
<skaet> :)  indeed.
<skaet> Status will be tracked for respins on http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-release
<skaet> There is currently a set being created.
<skaet> anyone finding something that needs investigating as a possible blocker,  please feel free to add it to the "under investigation" list by bug number.
<skaet> The iso tracker will be kept up to date as well with the rebuild status,  so you know the latest.
<skaet> teams have reviewed the tests on the iso tracker now,  (thanks balloons,  :) ) so they should be in good shape too now.
<skaet> So,  what's left now is to validate that the images emerging today are good to ship.  :)
<skaet> If someone sees an issue please make sure to raise it in #ubuntu-release if its a likely blocker, or use #ubuntu-testing to discuss.
<skaet> both lists will be monitored closely for the next week by the release and qa teams.
<skaet> Any one have questions?
<arosales> \o [comment]
<skaet> go arosales
<arosales> skaet: Just wanted to say thanks for always keeping us on track, and being so helpful. :-)
<arosales> ..
<skaet> *blush*   you're welcome.
 * seb128 hugs skaet
<skaet> As we enter the final push to get 12.10 wrapped up and released, just wanted to say thank you to all of you for your hard work on getting 12.10 polished up and ready to ship.   We pulled together a lot of cool new stuff in this release!   Well done!!!!
<arosales> +1
<smartboyhw> +1
<seb128> skaet, thanks as well for the hard work ;-)
 * smartboyhw bows to skaet (as in Chinese tradition)
<skaet> thanks!  :)
<skaet> and on that note,   lets go validate some images,   and get it shipped.  :D
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Oct 12 15:33:31 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-12-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-12-15.00.html
 * ogra_ hugs skaet 
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<arosales> thanks for chair'ing skaet
 * smartboyhw thanks skaet for the (final) release meeting
 * seb128 starts some iso downloads
<gilir> thanks skaet :-)
<skaet> Thanks ogra, arosales, seb128, smartboyhw, gilir, popey, Riddell, highvoltage, micahg, xnox, doko, brenand, mdeslaur
<mdeslaur> thanks skaet!
<smartboyhw> :)
<highvoltage> thanks skaet
<highvoltage> skaet: read your email this morning, sad news!
<highvoltage> skaet: but glad that you'll still be around
<skaet> thanks highvoltage,  :)   yup, that's my intention.
<balloons> ty skaet
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-10-07
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct  7 16:33:43 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Thanks to Scott Kitterman (ScottK) who provided debdiffs for libkdcraw for quantal and raring. Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> I'm also coordinating landings for kernel, apparmor, apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu, dbus, et al
<jdstrand> (which includes testing)
<jdstrand> I need to followup on various application-confinement bugs
<jdstrand> and should get back to some updates this week
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> and am going down the CVE list, as usual
<mdeslaur> On Friday, I'm patch piloting
<mdeslaur> that's about it
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor again this week
<sbeattie> I'm currently trying to fight off a cold and not having a working broadband line
<sbeattie> For apparmor, I'm again trying to focus on getting work off of jjohansen's plate
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: tag
<tyhicks> I'm focusing on apparmor as well
<tyhicks> I'm finishing up testing for pending apparmor, dbus, and evince uploads
<tyhicks> well, apparmor is the only one that still has testing to do
<tyhicks> after that, I'll switch to either helping with IPC or getting familiar with the kdbus code
<jdstrand> tyhicks, jjohansen: how different is the kernel that we gave to the kernel team today vs the one I was testing last week?
<tyhicks> I have a short week this week - off on Friday
<tyhicks> I haven't been making kernel changes
 * tyhicks defers to jjohansen 
<jdstrand> oh, I think jjohansen may not be here now
<jdstrand> sarnold: you're up
<tyhicks> well the thought was that the changes wouldn't affect policy at all
<tyhicks> so if your focus was on testing userspace, then the new kernel shouldn't affect that
<jdstrand> tyhicks: right, I was wondering not from a policy standpoint, but from a testing standpoint, the kernel team suggested it was quite a bit bigger
<tyhicks> I glanced at the patches last night, but don't know/remember enough to comment on their size
<jdstrand> tyhicks: so I don't want for you to redo all your tests, I just want to make sure we feel good about that kernel
<tyhicks> I think there were two small ones (a couple lines each) and one larger one
<tyhicks> jdstrand: ack - that's my thinking, as well
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week, still doing MIR audits; I expect to finish Mir today and start on opus or open-vm-tools. So far Mir is looking pretty good. :)
<mdeslaur> cool
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<chrisccoulson> that's easy for me - I'm continuing to work on my actions for oxide
<chrisccoulson> there was a chromium release last week. hopefully we'll be updating it this week ;)
<mdeslaur> heh :)
<chrisccoulson> i think that's it for me :)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: the oxide actions are finishing out the testsuite?
<chrisccoulson> oh, and i will finally publish a blog post about oxide (i've been working on it again this afternoon)
<jdstrand> then moving on to the other work items?
<jdstrand> nice
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, i've got quite a lot of tests done now. there's still more i can add, but i'm going to do that alongside my other actions
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: oh, nice :)
<chrisccoulson> it can get tedious when just working on tests, so i'm going to do other stuff in parallel now
<chrisccoulson> it's in pretty good shape
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I meant to ask-- specifics on taking stuff off jj's plate> IPC and tests?
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: yeah, sounds fine, thanks!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yeah
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I don't know how much jjohansen was able to look at the larger IPC (cause of the kernel updates for saucy)
<jdstrand> sbeattie: can you comment on if we are still on track for the larger IPC patches to come soonish after 13.10?
<jdstrand> sbeattie: if not, I'll ask jjohansen when he is back
<sbeattie> jdstrand: jjohansen has the better grasp of that, I think.
<jdstrand> ok,sure
<jdstrand> sbeattie: thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pyfribidi.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/prewikka.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/phpldapadmin.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openarena.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libapache2-mod-auth-openid.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct  7 16:56:15 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-07-16.33.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-07-16.33.html
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks
<tyhicks> thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<arges> stgraber: hi. is there a DMB meeting now?
<stgraber> yep, not sure who's the chair though
<stgraber> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<stgraber> who's chairing?
<stgraber> well, let's start with something else, who's around? :)
<arges> o/
<stgraber> hey micahg-work
<tumbleweed> o/
<stgraber> Laney: around?
<stgraber> arges: (trying to get 4 members otherwise we can't vote so it'd make the meeting pretty much pointless)
<arges> stgraber: ok
<Laney> stgraber: crap sorry, off-by-one error
<Laney> here now
<stgraber> hey Laney
<stgraber> Laney: so if the wiki is to be trusted, you're supposed to be the chair (since Barry and Benjamin both said they can't attend)
<Laney> ok
<Laney> do we have enough people?
<stgraber> Laney: barely but yes (the two of us, micahg-work and tumbleweed)
<Laney> micahg-work hasn't outed himself in public :P
<Laney> oh well
<Laney> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct  7 19:16:37 2013 UTC.  The chair is Laney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<Laney> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<Laney> (no actions or anything, straight into it)
<Laney> #subtopic Chris J Arges
<Laney> hello arges!
<arges> o/
<Laney> care to give us a quick introduction for the history books?
<arges> Sure
<arges> So I'm been an Ubuntu user since 06. And for the last two years I've been fixing Ubuntu bugs as a full-time job working in canonical technical services.
<arges> I mainly work on kernel bugs, but I also fix userspace packages as well.
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=*&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=Chris+J+Arges&sponsoree_search=name
<arges> I'm always trying to make sure our stable releases continue to be awesome, and I also run teh latest devel release to fix bugs as I hit them as well.
<arges> .
<Laney> Looks like a pretty good list
<Laney> you should have gotten infinity to advocate you :P
<arges> Laney: i did e-mail him.
<arges> but I'm guessing its crunch time so he may have been busy
<Laney> fair enough
<Laney> so
<Laney> did you find the plus one team provided you with good experience for this application?
<arges> Laney: absoultely.
<arges> It was fun fixing FTBFS,whilst learning proper packaging, and all the variables needed to fix a wide range of packages
<Laney> great, I'm glad it's serving that part of its purpose well
<Laney> if accepted, is there any particular area you will concentrate on?
<Laney> maybe outside of your work if that answer will be uninteresting ;-)
<arges> I'll continue to fix a wide range of bugs for stable releases, but my fxies will most likely be in the server/cloud
<arges> I also will fix things as I use them, so I record audio on Ubuntu and like to make sure usbaudio / jack /ardour work well
 * Laney nods
<Laney> stgraber has a q
<stgraber> arges: hi, so how familiar are you with the Ubuntu release process? For example, can you describe what state the Ubuntu archive currently is in, how long it'll be in that state and what's expected from uploaders at this time?
<arges> stgraber: sure. we are after the kernel freeze and final beta freeze. The final freeze is on oct 10th and the release is the 17th
<arges> at this point only release-critical bugs / security-critical bugs will be fixed
<arges> If there is an exceptional case, it can be considered, but we obviously want to make sure we don't introduce any last minute regressions / etc
<stgraber> is there a known exception to that rule you know of? (not really expecting you too, just wondering how much side noise you've heard ;))
<arges> You mean specifically and recently?
<stgraber> yep, new for this cycle
<arges> stgraber: was there something with the ubuntu touch project that changed recently?
<stgraber> yep, touch packages that are only seeded on the touch images and nowhere else have a pretty broad freeze exception and so are still getting feature updates this late in the cycle
<stgraber> do you know how to easily check if a package is seeded and so will affect an official Ubuntu image?
<arges> stgraber: i believe there is a project that does this
<arges> seeded-in-ubuntu
<stgraber> are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce? (we seem to have forgotten to ask that one lately...)
<arges> stgraber: no i am not, but will subscribe now
<stgraber> thanks :)
<stgraber> that's all I've got, next!
<arges> thanks
<Laney> micahg-work: go
<micahg-work> arges, have you ever done a library transition in the archive?
<arges> micahg-work: i've done some fixes for multi-arch python, but nothing too major
<micahg-work> arges, I'm referring to a SONAME bump or something similar
<arges> micahg-work: no i haven't had the chance to fix something like that. but its something I can learn and handle with help from mentors
<micahg-work> arges, do you have a general idea of how something like that would work
<arges> micahg-work: sure.
<arges> so first ensure the library builds properly with the bump, so we'll get something like /usr/lib/libblah.so.X.Y
<arges> then we need to make sure any packages that depend on that library build properly and can pick up that new library
<arges> if the packages that depend on the library have any version requirements we may need to modify them to use the newer library
<arges> so then you'd go through all the rdepends library packages and ensure they build correctly and also pass tests/QA/etc
<arges> there could be some gotcahs because function names could have changed as well
<arges> ..
<micahg-work> arges, thanks, that was nicely detailed (and the initial rebuild test is always a good thing to do)
<micahg-work> rdepend rebuild I meant
<arges> micahg-work: thanks
<Laney> do you know of any process improvement that was made recently which makes ongoing transitions safer for users of the development release?
<arges> Laney: i think there is a few
<arges> - autopkgtests and running them when a new package is uploaded
<arges> - improved qa, more continuous testing
<arges> Hmm i was going something else
<Laney> Let me interrupt, because we're running short on time - sorry
<arges> Sure
<Laney> I was mainly thinking of proposed-migration (britney)
<arges> Ojk
<arges> Ok
<Laney> it makes sure that packages don't move to the main release until transitions are done
<Laney> (simplified description)
<Laney> tumbleweed: you had something?
<tumbleweed> yeah
<tumbleweed> arges: I don't see any sync  in the sponsorship miner, or your LP page
<tumbleweed> *syncs
<tumbleweed> have you worked much with Debian?
<arges> tumbleweed: I have done a debian sync... let me find that example
<arges> tumbleweed: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iptables/1.4.18-1ubuntu1
<arges> I think there may be two, but this is the first one i could finmd
<tumbleweed> ubuntu1 doesn't soound like a sync
 * tumbleweed looks
<tumbleweed> ah, it's a merge
<arges> Oh you said sync
<arges> sorry
<arges> No I haven't done a debian sync, just debian merges
<tumbleweed> I suppose many of the packages you've touched have Ubuntu deltas
<tumbleweed> right, so you know to look for merges on packages you touched last
<arges> Yup! the merge o matic page
<tumbleweed> there's also a handy grep-merges tool
<arges> ah nice!
<arges> I also regarding debian, I do try and submit my fixes to debian using 'submittodebian' when applicable to ensure we reduce our delta with debian
<tumbleweed> ok
<tumbleweed> so you've dealt with the Debian BTS
<arges> Yes
<tumbleweed> I think that answers everything I have there
<tumbleweed> thanks
<arges> thanks
<Laney> cheers
<Laney> stgraber: micahg-work: got anything final?
<Laney> or vote?
<stgraber> I'm ready to vote
<micahg-work> I think that covered everything
<Laney> #vote Should Chris J Arges join ubuntu-core-dev?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should Chris J Arges join ubuntu-core-dev?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<micahg-work> +1 good work thusfar, good understanding of process, don't be afraid to ask questions later :)
<meetingology> +1 good work thusfar, good understanding of process, don't be afraid to ask questions later :) received from micahg-work
<Laney> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Chris J Arges join ubuntu-core-dev?
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Laney> thanks, and welcome!
<arges> thanks everybody!
<stgraber> arges: congrats!
<Laney> added ;-)
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/New might have some tips
<Laney> but may also be a bit stale (don't be afraid to update it if you learn things)
<tumbleweed> great
<arges> Laney: will do. thanks
<Laney> I'm guessing Daniel Pocock isn't here?
<tumbleweed> he goes by pocock on IRC, doesn't he?
<stgraber> doesn't appear to be on IRC, no
<Laney> no idea
 * micahg-work wonders if -v for dpkg-buildpackage is on that list
 * tumbleweed sees him on OFTC
<Laney> I'll ping over email
<Laney> we could maybe handle it there
<Laney> as it seems to have been around for a while
<Laney> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<Laney> #subtopic Should we change UTC meeting time when the DST-ending madness begins?
<Laney> who put that there?
<micahg-work> well, we were discussing informally after the last "meeting"
<micahg-work> we can table for the next meeting I guess
<Laney> Just about still before DST changes
<Laney> ok, let us carry it
<Laney> thanks chaps
<Laney> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct  7 20:06:24 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-07-19.16.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-07-19.16.html
<micahg-work> thanks Laney
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-10-08
<lool> stgraber, barry`: Hey
<lool> ogra_: hola
<lool> sorry I'm in a HO
<lool> barry`: I've just filed a bug today when you leave your phone unattended, upgrading fails
<stgraber> hey
<barry`> lool: hey.  i saw this.  i'm barely up and working today.  been sick for days, but my alarm woke me for this meeting.
<ogra_> hey
<lool> barry`: ah sorry about that
<lool> stgraber, ogra_, barry`: Anything you guys like to raise?
<lool> otherwise, let's adjourn
<barry`> nope
<ogra_> i seem to have issues with rebooting after OTA upgrades sometimes ... please all keep an eye open for this :)
<stgraber> don't have much here. I'm working on adding some logging to the cdimage scripts so it's easy for people who don't know them by heart to debug
<ogra_> (thats all i have)
<stgraber> but that's about it for my side
<ogra_> stgraber, ohhh thanks !
 * stgraber considers the meeting adjourned and moves to other things
<adam_g> o/
<arosales> hello
<adam_g> heya
<arosales> adam_g, you chairing today?
<adam_g> yup
<arosales> thanks
<adam_g> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  8 16:03:34 2013 UTC.  The chair is adam_g. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<arosales> o/
<adam_g> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<adam_g> smoser look at / assign bugs 1206872 , 1156932 , 1228228
<ubottu> bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba needs a config.sub update to support aarch64" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206872
<adam_g> smoser, any updates? i see bug #1228228 has some Fixed Released tags
<ubottu> bug 1228228 in cloud-init "ubuntu is not added to sudo group" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228228
<rbasak> I've just verified 1228228 as fixed
<smoser> i'll look at the others right now.
<smoser> sorry.
<adam_g> k
<adam_g> #action smoser look at / assign bugs 1206872 , 1156932
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser look at / assign bugs 1206872 , 1156932
<ubottu> bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba needs a config.sub update to support aarch64" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206872
<adam_g> zuul look at bugs 1199791, 1223010
<ubottu> bug 1223010 in keystone (Ubuntu Saucy) "Use oauthlib rather than oauth." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223010
<ubottu> bug 1199791 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-compute-xcp misses nova-compute.conf" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199791
<adam_g> hmm. zuul isn't here, neither is zul
<adam_g> #action zuul look at bugs 1199791, 1223010
<meetingology> ACTION: zuul look at bugs 1199791, 1223010
<ubottu> bug 1223010 in keystone (Ubuntu Saucy) "Use oauthlib rather than oauth." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223010
<ubottu> bug 1199791 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-compute-xcp misses nova-compute.conf" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199791
<adam_g> rbasak / jamespage look at bugs 1231901
<ubottu> bug 1231901 in nagios3 (Ubuntu Saucy) "Installing Nagios3 and Apache2 in Saucy does not enable the cgi mod, which is required" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231901
<jamespage> fixed
<adam_g> noice.
<adam_g> zul to look at problem in python-cliff launchpad branch
<jamespage> adam_g, zul should be along shortly
<adam_g> jamespage, cool.
<adam_g> roaksoax to look at bug 1227353
<ubottu> bug 1227353 in maas (Ubuntu Raring) "Please promote maas-dns, maas-dhcp to main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227353
<adam_g> roaksoax, all good there?
<jamespage> fixed afaict
<jamespage> oh - its is for saucy but not the other releases
<jamespage> indicator is 'won't fix' for the other ones...
<adam_g> ok
<adam_g> re-actioning for zul to confirm, but i think its been fixed up
<roaksoax> adam_g: yup, make it to saucy but we need SRU
<adam_g> #action zul to look at problem in python-cliff launchpad branch
<meetingology> ACTION: zul to look at problem in python-cliff launchpad branch
<adam_g> roaksoax, can you update the bug to 'Wont Fix' for those tasks if it looks un-SRUable?
<roaksoax> yeah will do when I get to it, thanks!
<adam_g> cool
<adam_g> #topic Saucy Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Saucy Development
<adam_g> bug 1213915	
<ubottu> bug 1213915 in ceph (Ubuntu Saucy) "Please demote ceph-mds and ceph-fs-common to universe" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1213915
<adam_g> jamespage, any update?
<jamespage> I suspect that won't get done in released ubuntu
<jamespage> but no - no -update
<jamespage> I'll ping doko again
<adam_g> k
<adam_g> bug 1236439
<ubottu> bug 1236439 in neutron (Ubuntu Saucy) "switch to use hostnames like nova breaks upgrades of l3-agent" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1236439
<adam_g> any indication this will be fixed for Havana, jamespage ?
<jamespage> adam_g, no - I raised it upstream with ttx
<jamespage> if there is an upstream commit I'll pull it in before release day
<adam_g> ack
<jamespage> adam_g, the problem is that the change was applied to fix a whole load of other issues
<adam_g> probably the same for bug 1236875, eh?
<ubottu> bug 1236875 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "unable to hotplug additional network interfaces into instances" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1236875
<jamespage> ditto
<jamespage> yep
<jamespage> only hit that today
<adam_g> sounds bad, but looks fixable
<adam_g> bug 1156932
<ubottu> bug 1156932 in python-novaclient (Ubuntu Saucy) "User can't modify security-group-rule via nova-api if there are duplicated security group name" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156932
<jamespage> adam_g, agreed
<jamespage> adam_g, that won't get fixed - I'm going to remove the series tasks for that
<adam_g> smoser just added a comment there (python-novaclient). appears to be a low prio bug for our release
<adam_g> k
<smoser> adam_g, yeah. i just made it so.
<adam_g> bug 1208455
<ubottu> bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208455
<smoser> andcommented that we dont really need to fix.
<adam_g> i see stefan assigned there, not sure if his team is tracking this one for release
<adam_g> bug 1199791
<ubottu> bug 1199791 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-compute-xcp misses nova-compute.conf" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199791
<doko> jamespage, about 1213915?
<jamespage> doko, yes
<adam_g> i wonder when the last time the nova-compute-xcp package was tested. that bug hasn't been touched but d/control looks as if config should be pulled in
<jamespage> adam_g, no idea
<adam_g> gonna comment and will wait to hear from zul
<adam_g> bug 1210054
<ubottu> bug 1210054 in juju-core (Ubuntu Saucy) "juju terminate-machine with local provider doesn't destroy machine" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210054
<adam_g> jamespage, this was fixed in 1.15.0. are good in saucy?
<adam_g> ..doesn't look like it
<jamespage> adam_g, not yet - the 1.16.0 release has been delayed
<jamespage> hope to make Final Freeze for it
<adam_g> k
<jamespage> https://launchpad.net/juju-core/+milestone/1.16.0
<jamespage> thats what is currently on the pending list
<adam_g> bug 1223010
<ubottu> bug 1223010 in keystone (Ubuntu Saucy) "Use oauthlib rather than oauth." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223010
<adam_g> i think this oauth problem is a non-issue now
<adam_g> we patch around the requirements.txt, and upstream has fixed imports such that is no longer required unless using the extension
<adam_g> commenting for zul to confirm
<adam_g> bug 1231970
<ubottu> bug 1231970 in websockify (Ubuntu T-series) "[FFe] nova-novncproxy requires websockify > 0.5 - please sync from unstable" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231970
<adam_g> looks resolved for the moment
<adam_g> bug 1236726
<ubottu> bug 1236726 in lxc (Ubuntu Saucy) "lxc ubuntu-cloud template is broken due to bogus tar option" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1236726
<adam_g> fixed ~30 minutes ago. will probably drop from our tracker soon
<adam_g> bug 1206872
<ubottu> bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba needs a config.sub update to support aarch64" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206872
<adam_g> bug 1233376
<ubottu> bug 1233376 in hv-kvp-daemon-init (Ubuntu Saucy) "hv_kvp_daemon and hv_vss_daemon are missing from linux-tools" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1233376
<adam_g> no utlemming
<adam_g> Blueprints
<adam_g> jamespage, anything you want to note?
<jamespage> oh
<jamespage> right
<jamespage> last week of release; think about postponing anything that won't complete
<jamespage> please do take time to review outstanding work items and update; I know I've been a little lax in the last 2 weeks
<adam_g> thanks for the heads up
<jamespage> adam_g, I think thats it - anything major that is not done now - won't get done!
<adam_g> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<adam_g> caribou, heya anything you want to add?
<caribou> Nothing right now, still have to fetch a bug list
<adam_g> k
<adam_g> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<adam_g> psivaa, heya
<psivaa> no updates from us
<adam_g> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<adam_g> no smb today
<adam_g> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<adam_g> rbasak, ello
<rbasak> No updates from me. Any questions?
<adam_g> guess not
<adam_g> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<adam_g> ODS Hong Kong is coming up quick
<adam_g> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<adam_g> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<adam_g> Next meeting will be Tuesday 2013-10-15 at 1600 UTC charied by jamespage
<adam_g> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  8 16:38:54 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-08-16.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-08-16.03.html
<jamespage> thanks adam_g
<arosales> thanks for chairing adam_g
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  8 17:01:36 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Saucy
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<apw> o/
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<arges> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<sconklin> o/
<henrix> o/
<kamal> o/
<sforshee> o/
<ppisati> o/
<bjf> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> VIRTIO_[BLK|MMIO|NET] support (to be used with qemu 1.6) was turned on, and some
<ppisati> fixes for highbank/s nic landed in S/generic.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || foundations-1305-arm64-bringup     || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || cking     || foundations-1308-power-measurement || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We are ~2 days away from Final Freeze.  We do however expect additional
<ogasawara> kernel uploads hopefully by EOD today for both phablet and distro
<ogasawara> kernels.  These uploads will primarily provide some critical bug fixes
<ogasawara> for AppArmor.  Additionally, for the distro kernel we may take advantage
<ogasawara> of this upload opportunity to land some patches we were queuing for SRU.
<ogasawara> All the patches in question are documented at each of the following bug
<ogasawara> reports: LP:1208988, LP:1218004, LP:1235523, LP:1235973, LP:1235977,
<ogasawara> LP:1235161, LP:1235914.  Beyond this, we do not anticipate any further
<ogasawara> uploads until the first round of kernel SRU's following 13.10's release.
<ogasawara> Also having passed Kernel Freeze last week, I'll plan on sending out the
<ogasawara> obligatory emails regarding Saucy's final kernel version and configuration.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 10 - Final Freeze (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 17 - 13.10 Release (~1 week away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> == 2013-10-08 ==
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Oct. 8):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Verification and Regression Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Verification and Regression Testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Verification and Regression Testing
<bjf>   * Raring  - Verification and Regression Testing
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  8 17:05:34 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-08-17.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-08-17.01.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-10-09
<ghostcube> http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/blitz-marathon-in-deutschland-die-standorte-der-radarfallen-a-926417.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-10-10
 * slangasek waves
<ev> hi
 * stgraber waves
<stokachu> slangasek: i dont have anything pressing today
<ev> The list of things I've forgotten to do in the past several months now includes: enabling support for recoverable error reports server-side :-/
<ev> (RT 65174)
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct 10 15:06:40 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> bdmurray xnox stgraber slangasek cjwatson barry jodh ev doko stokachu
<slangasek> bdmurray: hello!
<slangasek> stokachu: ack :)
<bdmurray> bug triage
<bdmurray> tested update-manager bug 1119427
<bdmurray> removed usage of gksu from ubuntu-release-upgrader - bug 1210649
<bdmurray> added phased-update knowledge to update-notifier - bug 1223321
<ubottu> bug 1119427 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with AttributeError in update(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'saveDistUpgrade'" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1119427
<ubottu> bug 1210649 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Raring) "/usr/lib/ubuntu-release-upgrader/check-new-release-gtk:TypeError:on_button_upgrade_now_clicked:run:error:error:__init__:__init__:function" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210649
<ubottu> bug 1223321 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier notifies of phased-updates for which you may not be eligible" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223321
<bdmurray> click chroot modifications
<bdmurray> reviewed / approved P SRU of libreoffice
<bdmurray> â done
<cjwatson> bdmurray: Are you finished with the chroot work?  I think I was waiting for a response to my most recent comment before circling back
<xnox> * emulator:
<xnox>  - adbd into android available out of the box
<xnox>  - serial into ubuntu available out of the box
<xnox>  - everything else is built and boots correctly
<xnox>  - emulator on the people.c.c is updated, but is kind of hand-build
<xnox>    (some patches are not in saucy)
<xnox>  - todo: /data/ is not mounted inside the android-lxc container
<xnox> * bugs:
<xnox>  - fixed up u1 page bug in ubiquity (couldn't login/sign-up)
<xnox>  - putting spam plug into upstart-udev-bridge (and related debugging)
<xnox>  - todo: spam plug on the udev source in systemd-udevd
<xnox>  - fixing FTBFS in main
<xnox> ..
<stgraber> No fancy report today, fighting with dbus/kernel/lxc over in #ubuntu-touch (not sure why since it doesn't affect touch though ;)) ...
<bdmurray> cjwatson: no, I was going to have a poke at it again today
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Quite a lot of upload queue reviews
<stgraber> Looked into a couple of ubiquity bugs (xnox, what's the status on the webkit related one?)
<stgraber> LXC code reviews and cherry-picked a bunch of bugfixes (including trying to sort out the dbus/apparmor mess introduced by recent kernels...)
<stgraber> Added logging support to system-image
<stgraber> Started to work on some of the changes required for ports support for system-image
<stgraber> Some more touch related work (debugging udm, system-image, ...)
<stgraber> (DONE)
<cjwatson> bdmurray: ok, cool
<xnox> stgraber: right, it's on my todo list. but i don't think i'll get to it today.
<stgraber> xnox: yeah, no worries, I kind of gave up on that one after I told cjwatson and slangasek I'd take care of it so I at least keep an eye on it to make sure we make progress (our initial guess was something related to logind I may have been able to help with, but now that it's clearly a webkit issue, I'm not too useful ;))
<xnox> stgraber: i see.
<xnox> stgraber: my guess was to move loading up T&C webpage, only if/when people click to see it. Instead of on module import. Thus at that point we at least know if network is available and don't fail the install horibly.
<slangasek>  * working to try to reproduce bug #1234731 in upstart
<slangasek>   * being hamstrung by bug #1228406
<slangasek>  * freeze reviews
<ubottu> bug 1234731 in dbus (Ubuntu) "calling 'initctl set-env -g' from within an upstart job is lost" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234731
<slangasek> (done)
<ubottu> bug 1228406 in linux (Ubuntu) "[LENOVO 3249CTO] suspend/resume failure" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228406
<cjwatson> Lots of archive cleanup.  NBS now zero, amd64 and armhf zero uninstallables, saucy_outdate_all.txt almost cleared, proposed-migration backlog improved, component-mismatches-proposed tidied up, fixed various build failures.
<cjwatson> ARM64 porting.  Lots of build supervision and scheduling.  Loads of config.guess/config.sub updates.  Fixed dlopen segfault in statically-linked programs which is harmless but confused the fault watcher we have to have in our builds at the moment.
<cjwatson> Investigated bug 1237519.
<ubottu> bug 1237519 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Grub2 fails to install to non-standard device path" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237519
<cjwatson> Working on displaying Launchpad builder versions in the UI so that upgrades are slightly less painful to monitor.
<cjwatson> To do:
<cjwatson>  * Finish reviewing and merging Brian's chroot management branch (carried over).
<cjwatson>  * Hunt through GRUB code to try to chase down bug 1229458 (carried over).
<ubottu> bug 1229458 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grubnetx64.efi tftp client does not work over ipv6" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229458
<cjwatson>  * Merge Steve's GRUB patch (in progress).
<cjwatson>  * Look for last-minute installer bugs to hoover up.
<cjwatson> ..
<cjwatson> (I can't take credit for all the archive cleanup obviously :) )
<barry> short week due to illness.
<barry> system-image: LP: #1215586, LP: #1206588, LP: #1235975
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1215586 in Ubuntu system image "The u/i cannot handle the array-of-dictionaries update descriptions" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1215586
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1206588 in Ubuntu system image "test_service_exits() can't run on system bus" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206588
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1235975 in Ubuntu system image "Unsafe file and directory permissions" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235975
<barry> done
<stgraber> xnox: not sure if that'll be enough though, here I clearly had network access and ubiquity would work fine if started under sudo, so it seems like we've got a permission issue somewhere (write to cache, config, similar stuff?)
<jodh> * upstart
<jodh>   - Fixed bug 1234898.
<jodh>   - Investigated bug 1235231.
<jodh>   - Investigated bug 1234743.
<ubottu> bug 1234898 in upstart "upstart-local-bridge not handling all events sent to it" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234898
<ubottu> bug 1235231 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "plymouth loses output to /dev/console (such as ci-info: messages)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235231
<jodh>   - Investigating bug 1235649 - multiple issues: relates to 1234743 and
<ubottu> bug 1234743 in linux (Ubuntu) "omapfb module floods system with udev events on samsung galaxy nexus" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234743
<ubottu> bug 1235649 in unity (Ubuntu Saucy) "uevent spam causes session upstart to consume massive amounts of memory on Ubuntu Touch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235649
<jodh>     what looks to be an incorrect use of the D-Bus API (ongoing).
<jodh> à² 
<xnox> stgraber: set a11y?!
<xnox> (cause that's one thing that webview does)
<xnox> jodh: i think mhr3 can be a dbus expert, he seems to be working a lot with e.g. for https://launchpad.net/dee
<ev> - Chat with Rick on the 1SS move.
<jodh> xnox: ack, thanks.
<ev> - Chat with James on the 1SS move.
<ev> - Call with Chris and Andy on getting a role account in canonistack for team
<ev>   projects. Chatted with Tom Haddon over the approach. Submitted an RT.
<ev> - Call with Chris on the vanguard implementation.
<ev> - Landing task force standups.
<stgraber> xnox: could be
<ev> - Work with Chris on getting OOPS support into lp:qa-dashboard.
<ev> - Some light code review.
<ev> - Chased Canonistack role account (RT 65080).
<ev> - Debugging GNetworkMonitor waking up frequently with apw (LP: #991481).
<ev>   Suggestions welcome.
<ev> - A few meetings with Alice on the move.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 991481 in Whoopsie "Constant dns traffic for daisy.ubuntu.com" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/991481
<stgraber> xnox: if sudo strips some of that from the environment, that may be the different
<stgraber> *difference
<ev> - Set up a project to manage the new canonistack role account:
<ev>   https://launchpad.net/ci-engineering-canonistack
<ev> - Call with Rick, Larry, pinky, Herb, and James Troup on the 1SS move.
<ev> - Catch up call with Chris.
<ev> - Reviewed some small changes from deej to the daisy and daisy-retracer charms.
<ev> - Investigated using apport-retrace for the touch images for lool. Chat with
<ev>   lool and pitti about how we can override UnreportableReason.
<ev> - Chased jjo on https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=64590.
<ev> - Mail to the CI team, explaining the new Canonistack role account.
<ev> - Arranged a meeting with the whole CI team to discuss the 1SS move.
<xnox> stgraber: cause ubiquity-dm does process and sets/unsets a11y & modifies gsettings which wouldn't be there, if boot straight to desktop.
<ev> - Mail to ubuntu-engineering, letting them know how they can engage the CI
<ev>   engineering team.
<ev> - Worked with Chris and Alex to further clarify our responsibilities in the
<ev>   wiki.
<ev> - Call with Alex, Steve, Leann, Michael, and Colin on the landing spreadsheet
<ev>   and what we're doing post-release.
<ev> - Created RT 65144 for setting up oops.canonical.com for reports.qa.ubuntu.com.
<ev> - Mail to ubuntu-engineering explaining how to retrace crashes.
<ev> - Chased retracers in prodstack. Nearly there!
<ev> - Working with the AUS folks to find an acceptable meeting time.
<ev> - Small review and merge from Steve for daisy armhf retracer config.
<ev> - Helping the CI team chase a LXC/apparmor issue around dbus.
<ev> - Chasing up statsd RT with alexlist, psivaa, and vila. Waiting for init script
<ev>   fixes from jjo.
<ev> - Chased up oops.canonical.com reporting from dashboard.qa.ubuntu.com (RT 65144)
<ev> - Putting Larry and Rick in charge of lab access and discussing using IS' LDAP,
<ev>   per Alex's request.
<ev> - Chasing up why we're not seeing the autopilot documentation on
<ev>   http://utah.readthedocs.org/en/latest/.
<ev> - Helped jjo debug statsd configuration.
<ev> - Fixes to lp:daisy to support recoverable problems server-side.
<ev> - Investigated bugs in the retracers from deej that turned about to be wrong
<ev>   package versions in the deployed charms.
<ev> (done)
<ev> I think there's more, but I forgot to write down whatever it was I did last week
<cjwatson> oh, one other thing on my to-do, the germinate run at the end of the publisher is crashing with something arm64-related and I need to investigate why ASAP
<slangasek> jodh: do you have all the remote access to a mako device that you need for reproducing the problem in place on the phone?
<jodh> slangasek: yes, I do now thanks.
<slangasek> jodh: ok, good
<slangasek> doko: your turn :)
<doko> - one more last (later?) gcc-4.8 update for saucy, fixing wrong code-gen for gmp and nss
<doko> - update all our cross binutils and compilers
<doko> - fixing build failures, ftbfs looks good (main), the test rebuild too besides some texinfo related ftbfs
<doko> - Address remaing MIRs
<doko> - Trying to prepare a Go meetup during Linaro Connect together with mwhudson and some google Go devs
<doko> - Prepare an AArch64 test chroot
<doko> - AArch64 upload orgies
<doko> - last Thu was national holiday, was sick on Fri
<doko> (done)
<lool> ev: pitti suggested something simple for forcing report on .crash
<slangasek> doko: so I didn't get back to you on your question about wrong code generation on armhf
<ev> hm?
<slangasek> I think it's too late (and was already too late) to do much about this before release, besides release note it
<lool> ev: just remove the unreportable reason with vi and submit it (ugly, but works); he didn't want an official flag as this approach is frowned upon in the first place
<doko> yeah
<ev> lool: seems reasonable
<slangasek> doko: I was puzzled by something in your mail, you said that it affected 64-bit math, but the test case for it is only using 32-bit ints?
<doko> was it? hmm ... just chatted with linora tcwg guys
<slangasek> yeah
<slangasek> so if it affects 32-bit math, that worries me a lot more :-)  Yet the problem was only reported in things like gmp
<slangasek> and if we had a widespread problem with 32-bit math I would expect everything to be on the floor, and it's not
<doko> yes, I add the list of packages that apparently were affected
<slangasek> those affected packages were all ones that caught the bug in the testsuite though, right?
<doko> yes, I'm sure about nss and the cyrpto package, didn't check the others
<slangasek> so the part that worries me is the packages that might be affected but *don't* have test suites
<doko> exactly
<slangasek> but I don't think we currently can quantify this well enough to release note it
<slangasek> "some math might be broken" is scaremongering, not a useful release note
<doko> well, it's not broken anymore
<slangasek> doko: can you work with the Linaro guys to try to identify the scope of this?  Any chance that there's a way to search the archive for packages that include the wrong code?
<slangasek> or maybe they know that this is a very rare corner case that only affects heavy-duty math libs
<slangasek> right, it's not broken for anything built with the current compiler
<bdmurray> the ubuntu security team has code for searching archive packages
<doko> slangasek, the corner case was the issue which did show up in mpfr. right, will check again, but afaiu just scanning the assembler for some instructions isn't possible
<doko> will do that at connect
<slangasek> bdmurray: yeah, what doko said, the hard part is scanning the binary for assembly sequences
<doko> xnox, did you feel disturbed? ;-P never typing that much during meetings
<slangasek> I know there are tools out there for scanning for instructions, but perhaps in this case it's too difficult to craft a proper match for the breakage
<slangasek> anyway
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> ?
<xnox> doko: I use push-to-talk such that I don't make noise =)
 * xnox ponders if Saucy Salamander, will be followed by Tasty Tintin
<bdmurray> I could use some help with bug 1024590
<ubottu> bug 1024590 in update-manager (Ubuntu Saucy) "update-manager crashed with AttributeError in _on_download_changed(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'get_value'" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1024590
<slangasek> xnox: a tintin is an animal?
<mdeslaur> tasty turkey
<barry> tangy tadpole
<slangasek> bdmurray: how can we help?
<slangasek> reading the bug log, it seems you're already pretty far down the rabbit hole
<bdmurray> and then I got stuck
<slangasek> anyone have some spare cycles to help bdmurray with this?
<slangasek> <crickets>
<slangasek> bdmurray: I can try to take a look this afternoon, but no promises :/
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay, no problem
<slangasek> anything else today?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct 10 15:48:44 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-10-15.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-10-15.06.html
<slangasek> thanks :)
<barry> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks
<jodh> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-10-06
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct  6 17:16:55 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on community this week
<jdstrand> quite a few apparmor related items have come up that need to land
<jdstrand> there is a click-apparmor update for adjusting CLICK_DIR. it is ready, but it needs testing
<jdstrand> there is apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu for a new template (ubuntu-push-helper)
<jdstrand> and there is apparmor itself, which is mostly in sbeattie's court, but may need a couple of tweaks to the init script and bug #1377338
<jdstrand> that creates click-reviewers-tools changes
<ubottu> bug 1377338 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "apparmor may fail to load some profiles if one is corrupted" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1377338
<jdstrand> and I still haven't updated UCT for derivative branches
<jdstrand> mdes laur is off today
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor this week
<jdstrand> sbeattie: (also, before you hand off to tyhicks, I'll have some questions)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: okay
<sbeattie> as jdstrand said, I need to poke at 1377338
<sbeattie> and work on the landing of a bugfix update for the apparmor package.
<sbeattie> I have a bit of upstream work I need to do around releases.
<sbeattie> jdstrand: what did you want to ask?
<jdstrand> first (and this may be for tyhicks as well), I was (perhaps mistakenly) thinking that the apparmor upload would fix the testsuite such that it would pass
<jdstrand> which would be part of my justification for uploading it
<tyhicks> there are outstanding kernel bugs
<jdstrand> yes
<jdstrand> but we did decide that the testsuite would be adjusted for the named path getopt (and friends) failures, correct?
<sbeattie> tyhicks: however, the getopt on dgram before there's a bound socket isn't going to get a fix, is it?
<tyhicks> I thought all of the getopt failures were addressed in the test suite
<jdstrand> sbeattie, tyhicks: can you sort that ^ out after the meeting?
<tyhicks> yes
<jdstrand> thanks
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yeah
<sbeattie> jdstrand: any other questions?
<jdstrand> so, I think that means that we should adjust QRT to not fail with the current expected failures (ie, if only those kernel bugs are making the testsuite fail, then we don't fail QRT). when our kernel bugs are fixed, we remove that
<jdstrand> sbeattie: what do you think? QA and kt are not happy with the current state
<jdstrand> (which you can point them to me if they are upset with you)
<jdstrand> (that was a collective you, not sbeattie-specific :)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yeah, agreed.
<jdstrand> ok
<sbeattie> meh, KT/QA are always upset with me, it's a steady state of affairs.
<jdstrand> heh
<jdstrand> well, for apparmor's qrt, they can blame me
<jdstrand> (should've thought about it before the upload that broke it)
<jdstrand> sbeattie: so, at this point, I'm not sure that the new version of apparmor that you are working on will make it into rtm
<jdstrand> sbeattie: however, 1377338 has to be fixed in rtm
<jdstrand> sbeattie: so, I think priorities should be, get a patch going for 1377338, and I'll prepare an rtm upload for that and whatever else I need to do to the boot scripts
<sbeattie> okay
<jdstrand> sbeattie: then, get that patch into the ppa, after sorting out the testsuite
<jdstrand> sbeattie: then I can get that to utopic
<jdstrand> sbeattie: then someone can work on qrt
<jdstrand> sbeattie: sound like a plan?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yeah, that works for me.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: we can play the postfix one by ear once jj can comment. maybe it'll be in your upload, maybe not
<jdstrand> sbeattie: cool, thanks
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<sbeattie> alright, thanks. tyhicks?
<jdstrand> sbeattie: oh, also, for it to be in rtm, it needs to land by thursday, which basically means I need a patch by tomorrow
<jdstrand> (bug 1377338)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: gotcha
<ubottu> bug 1377338 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "apparmor may fail to load some profiles if one is corrupted" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1377338
<jdstrand> cool, thanks
<tyhicks> I'm now looking at the in-tree apparmor regression test suite to make sure it is failing when expected (as discussed above)
<tyhicks> I have a couple more eCryptfs kernel patches to review and test this week before I can send a pull request for the 3.18 merege window
<tyhicks> they're small and shouldn't take long
<sbeattie> tyhicks: note that the paste I sent you elsewhere were results using the apparmor package in the security-proposed ppa, which has everything that's in lp:apparmor.
<tyhicks> I misplaced them during the big apparmor landing push and just rediscovered them :/
<tyhicks> sbeattie: ack
<tyhicks> then I'm switching over to the upstream dbus-daemon apparmor mediation bug feedback
<tyhicks> that's probably all that I should commit to this week
<tyhicks> I spent more time than I expected last week on the apparmor kernel memory bug triage (LP: #1375416) so my planned work for this week looks similar to last week
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1375416 in linux (Ubuntu) "AppArmor leaks kernel memory during profile reloads" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1375416
<tyhicks> jj isn't here so it is sarnold's turn
<jdstrand> I know the feeling regarding planned work looking similar...
<sarnold> I'm in happy place this week, on MIR duty; I still have ~five outstanding MIRs to work on, one is in progress
<sarnold> I'll try to quick-ack smallish apparmor patches this week, but longer / more involved patches just won't get any attention, sorry
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<tyhicks> maybe jjohansen should go now that he's here?
<tyhicks> jjohansen: sarnold had passed chrisccoulson the mic just before you joined but we haven't heard from him
<jjohansen> okay
<jjohansen> so I am primary working on apparmor bugs this week
<jjohansen> I need to look into 1373172, 1373174, and 1373176
<jdstrand> the testsuite bugs. cool
<jjohansen> and finish up with 1375417 and maybe poke at 1375416, and 1375410
<jjohansen> jdstrand: yep
<jdstrand> cool
<jjohansen> we also need to decide if we want to push the fix for docker.io LP: #1371310 out to the phone kernels
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1371310 in linux (Ubuntu) "docker.io doesn't work with apparmor 3.0 RC1 kernel" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1371310
 * jdstrand pauses
<jjohansen> and if so send the pull request
<jdstrand> jjohansen: I wasn't thinking we would. all the phone policy seems fine atm
<jdstrand> jjohansen: I mean, we can for utopic to keep things tidy if people want
<jdstrand> but that bug on rtm kernels or even phablet utopic kernels doesn't bother me
<jjohansen> yeah, I am not bothered by it eiterh
<jdstrand> now, if we have updates for other kernel bugs, sure, we can toss it in there
<jdstrand> alright, let's not worry about it on phablet unless we can roll it in with other bug fixes
<jjohansen> ack
<jdstrand> jjohansen: did you have anything else to report
<jdstrand> ?
<jjohansen> okay, let see I have an embargo issue to look at closer, and some apparmor patches to upstream
<jjohansen> we also have apparmor 2.9 that we need to push out this week if there is going to be any chance of debian picking it up
<jjohansen> that is it for me
<jdstrand> jjohansen: I think sbeattie is close to finalizing that. those testsuite bugs you mentioned and one other bug (1377338) are the only thing holding up 2.9 aiui
<jdstrand> things*
<jdstrand> ok
<jjohansen> that sounds about right
<jdstrand> so, let's move on
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/fusionforge.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/iodine.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pigz.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cakephp.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ekiga.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct  6 18:05:36 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-06-17.16.moin.txt
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<tyhicks> thanks
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
 * cking wonders if he's too early  or late for the meeting
<bdmurray> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
 * ScottK looks up
<bdmurray> micahg-work: are you here for the meeting?
<micahg-work> yes
<bdmurray> well, that makes 3 if I am counting correctly
<cking> is that enough?
<bdmurray> cking: its not enough for quorum for a vote.
<ScottK> micahg-work: Are you running the meeting?
<micahg-work> do we have quorum?
<ScottK> micahg-work: We can review cking's application and finish the vote via email if we don't.
 * cking would appreciate that :-)
<micahg-work> ok, wfm
<micahg-work> #startmeeting Ubuntu Developer Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct  6 19:23:28 2014 UTC.  The chair is micahg-work. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<micahg-work> welcome to the fortnightly DMB meeting
<micahg-work> #topic Colin King applying for PPU (eventstat, forkstat, health-check, idlestat, powerstat, smemstat, stress-ng, thermald and fwts)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Colin King applying for PPU (eventstat, forkstat, health-check, idlestat, powerstat, smemstat, stress-ng, thermald and fwts)
<micahg-work> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColinKing/PPUApplicationTools
<micahg-work> cking, care to introduce yourself?
<cking> hi there, I've been working with Ubuntu now for 6+ years and I work in the Ubuntu Kernel team
<cking> I like to focus on fixing bugs and improving code quality
<micahg-work> #chair ScottK micahg-work
<meetingology> Current chairs: ScottK micahg-work
<cking> I'm also a Debian Maintainer for a bunch of packages: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=colin.king@canonical.com
<cking> ..I like to develop tools that help us find bugs and identify issues than need improving
<cking> hence I'm requesting per package upload rights for these tools as well as the firmware test suite which I developed too
<cking> is that enough?
<micahg-work> I think so
<ScottK> I see Lintian wants you to do a bit of man page work.  Any plans for that?
<ScottK> #link https://lintian.debian.org/maintainer/colin.king@canonical.com.html
<cking> yes, I'm planning to get the packages lintian clean, some if this requires me working upstream with the developer, such as thermald
<ScottK> In the mean time, you can write the man pages and ship them in debian/.
<cking> ..as I like to get fixes upstream first so everyone can benefit
<cking> indeed, with idlestat, I was waiting for the next release of the code which is coming "real soon"-ish
<ScottK> When one of your packages is uploaded, do you track that it makes from proposed to the release pocket?  If so, how?
<cking> that's a good question, normally I give it a few days and when I'm not sure about the status I normally ask a fellow kernel team member to see what's happened
<cking> but I should be more familiar with the exact process so I can be more on top of the situation
<ScottK> Fair enough.  We can talk about it after.
<ScottK> Which of your packages are seeded in Ubuntu images?
<cking> currently just thermald, it's tied closely to the kernel as it stops CPUs overheating now that we've enabled the intel-pstate driver in the kernel
<ScottK> How would you tell if any of the others had been added?
<cking> erm, I'm not sure, I'd have to research that out
<ScottK> seeded-in-ubuntu in ubuntu-dev-tools is the usual answer.
<cking> ok
<ScottK> Why would you care?  How would it affect if you were going to upload a package at a given time?
<cking> i'd care because it's a package that is automatically included.  if not seeded in ubuntu then users can opt in so it's a "less" critical  package
<cking> it also means I need to be really careful on the release cycle so I don't rush in any changes at a late stage. normally I want to ensure it's stable very early on to get enough soak time on it
<ScottK> If there's a freeze on for an alpha/beta milestone seeded packages don't transition from proposed to release for the images involved in the milestone.
<cking> ok, got it
<micahg-work> are there any times when you can't upload a package that's not seeded?
<ScottK> For future reference, for package migration you'll want to know about http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html and http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt - the latter takes some work to comprehend.  Don't worry about it now, have a look later.
<cking> micahg-work, i must confess, I've not consider that before now
<cking> where would I find that policy out?
<micahg-work> on the release schedule are links to each freeze and their respective policies: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<ScottK> cking: What kind of changes would be OK for upload right now?
<cking> ScottK, only bug fixes, and generally I'd only consider ones that were show-stoppers
<ScottK> OK.
<cking> SRU-like fixes
<ScottK> If you had direct upload rights today and uploaded thermald, what would happen to it first?
<cking> wouldn't it go into -proposed?
<cking> then only once it has passed certain tests it would go into the release pocket
<ScottK> No, since it's seeded it goes into unapproved and is reviewed by the release team before being manually accepted.
<ScottK> (this happens after the last beta)
<micahg-work> are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
<cking> yep
<micahg-work> FYI, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2014-September/001113.html was send about 2 weeks ago
<cking> oh, double check, I'm not 100% sure of that, I'm subscribed to quite a few, I need to look at my mail filters
<micahg-work> since we don
 * cking has seen that email, so I must be subscribe
<cking> *subscribed
<micahg-work> since we don't have quorum, we can vote, but will have to finish on the ML
<micahg-work> #voters bdmurray ScottK micahg-work
<meetingology> Current voters: ScottK bdmurray micahg-work
<ScottK> +1
 * ScottK wonders if he was too fast.
<micahg-work> #vote Vote on Colin King getting upload rights to eventstat, forkstat, health-check, idlestat, powerstat, smemstat, stress-ng, thermald
<meetingology> Please vote on: Vote on Colin King getting upload rights to eventstat, forkstat, health-check, idlestat, powerstat, smemstat, stress-ng, thermald
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<ScottK> There we go.
<ScottK> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ScottK
 * micahg-work believes upload rights exist for fwts already
<cking> oh, that's news to me, must because I was historically part of the Hardware Enablement Team
<cking> apologies for that
<micahg-work> sorry, I might be mis-remembering
<micahg-work> here, let's make that more official just in case
<micahg-work> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Vote on Colin King getting upload rights to eventstat, forkstat, health-check, idlestat, powerstat, smemstat, stress-ng, thermald
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg-work> #vote Vote on Colin King getting upload rights to eventstat, forkstat, health-check, idlestat, powerstat, smemstat, stress-ng, thermald, fwts
<meetingology> Please vote on: Vote on Colin King getting upload rights to eventstat, forkstat, health-check, idlestat, powerstat, smemstat, stress-ng, thermald, fwts
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<micahg-work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg-work
<ScottK> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ScottK
<micahg-work> bdmurray, did you want to vote now?
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<Noskcaj> Is there still time for my MOTU application or should i just go and get breakfast?
<cking> thanks
<micahg-work> Noskcaj, I think we're out of time on this one, are you available for the next meeting?
<ScottK> Noskcaj: You're on for next time.
<Noskcaj> sigh, another month
<Noskcaj> Would anyone have 5 mins to check if i've done enough? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj
<micahg-work> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Vote on Colin King getting upload rights to eventstat, forkstat, health-check, idlestat, powerstat, smemstat, stress-ng, thermald, fwts
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg-work> cking, we'll take the vote to the ML
<ScottK> Noskcaj: My recollection is that when I read it, I was confused about what you were applying for and what endorsements were related.
<micahg-work> #action micahg to follow up on ML with vote on Colin King's PPU application
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to follow up on ML with vote on Colin King's PPU application
<micahg-work> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<ScottK> Nothing here.
<Noskcaj> ScottK, Applying for MOTU, Xubuntu Packageset, and whatever the recommended gnome one is (packageset or desktop-extra)
<ScottK> Didn't you get Xubuntu last time?
 * ScottK may misremember.
<Noskcaj> ScottK, I got 4 packages, 1 of which was dropped from xubuntu and from my maintenance
 * micahg-work would like to remind applicants to please send a mail to devel-permissions explaining what they're applying for per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard#Application_process
<micahg-work> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct  6 20:04:39 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-06-19.23.moin.txt
<Noskcaj> micahg-work, I think i did, although my email probably could have been better
<ScottK> Now you have a chance to write a better one then.
<micahg-work> Noskcaj, I didn't see it in the archive
<Noskcaj> Oops, it went to developer-membership-board@lists.ubuntu.com
<micahg-work> ah, that would explain it :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-10-07
<lutostag> o/
<lutostag> so looks like Im running things...
<gaughen> \o
<lutostag> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  7 16:03:01 2014 UTC.  The chair is lutostag. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<kickinz1> o/
<smb> o/
<matsubara> o/
<arges> o/
<lutostag> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<lutostag> Blueprints...
<smoser> o/
<coreycb> o/
<lutostag> everyone was supposed to review blueprint work items before next weeks meeting
<rharper> \o
<lutostag> so if you havent done that, get to it nowish I guess
<lutostag> no other action items from last week
<lutostag> #topic Utopic Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Utopic Development
<lutostag> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<lutostag> so whats the state of things, are we frozen?
<lutostag> Final Freeze is 9 days out
<lutostag> #subtopic Release Bugs
<lutostag> well, before we do that, Im sure someone probably wants to say something about Utopic
<lutostag> I know we still have some FTBFS packages, right rbasak? any high importance ones still outstanding?
<rbasak> One moment
<rbasak> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20140914-utopic.html#ubuntu-server
<rbasak> jpds: are you still looking at the strongswan one?
<jpds> rbasak: Yep.
<rbasak> OK, thanks.
<rbasak> Any help with these would be appreciated.
<lutostag> rbasak: thanks, that looks better than I thought it was, do you need more resources or are we on track?
<rbasak> I had been leaving them for the virtual sprints.
<rbasak> But as we're coming up to final freeze I'll take a look.
<lutostag> rbasak: alright, thanks!
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> sorry late
<lutostag> #subtopic Release Bugs
<lutostag> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<lutostag> doesnt look like any High prio ones
<lutostag> we've got our juju mirs and some openstacky things
<lutostag> anything in that list we need that isnt being activelt pushed? something not there?
<lutostag> actively*
<lutostag> I guess we seem to be comfortable then.
<lutostag> #subtopic Blueprints
<lutostag> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/group/topic-u-server.html
<lutostag> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-u-server
<lutostag> (I just updated servercloud-u-maas moments ago, so that should be doing better)
<lutostag> the other ones that look a little low are juno (zul) and curtin (smoser)
<lutostag> who dont happen to be here right now
<smoser> :)
<smoser> i'm here. just quiet.
<smoser> i'll llook at curtin.
<lutostag> smoser: great, thanks
<zul> ditto
<lutostag> I guess thats it for Blueprints, get them to the current status and decide what needs to be postponed
<zul> not curtin but the other stuff
<lutostag> zul: gotcha
<lutostag> or if you need more resources, now is the time to pester gaughen
<lutostag> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<arges> caribou is out this week btw
<lutostag> ah, ok
<lutostag> did anyone have anything important from last week to follow up on, if not moving on
<lutostag> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<lutostag> psivaa: floor is yours
<psivaa> not much to report from us on the iso testing side
<psivaa> lutostag: ^ :)
<lutostag> so I read that as its going well
<lutostag> psivaa: thanks!
<psivaa> sure
<lutostag> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> I would have nothing to bring up and am not aware of anything pending from our side. Please let me know if there is anything or if there are any questions.
<kickinz1> smb, I reported some bugs on bcache, wa may need to speak about them
<smb> kickinz1, If you could subswcribe me on them I would find them
<kickinz1> ok
<arges> kickinz1: is this the same bcache bug we looked at a while ago?
<kickinz1> no
<arges> ok
<kickinz1> if you create a bcache devaice with caching device > backing, kernel crash (machine hangs)
<kickinz1> and there is no way to completely destroy a bcache without rebooting.
<arges> kickinz1: ok can you post the bug#?
<kickinz1> I'll ping you later with the bugs numbers
<kickinz1> ok
<arges> ok
<smb> kickinz1, or send a list to kernel-team mailing list
<kickinz1> 1377130, 1377142
<smb> that way we all get notified and have a record
<kickinz1> ok I'll do
<lutostag> great, if nobody has anything else...
<arges> kickinz1: also to assist speedy debugging try using latest mainline kernels to help us narrow down the issue. I think joe's bot sends instructions on how to dot hat
<arges> and i'm done...
<lutostag> :)
<lutostag> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<lutostag> so ODS
<lutostag> anything else we should be aware of?
<lutostag> guess not
<lutostag> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<lutostag> Anything else?
<lutostag> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<lutostag> Tues, Oct 17 same time
<lutostag> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  7 16:28:49 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-07-16.03.moin.txt
<kickinz1> thanks lutostag
<lutostag> rharper: you're up next!
<rharper> lutostag: yeah, but Ill be out of pocket
<gaughen> lutostag, we will need to reorder since rharper will be in Brussels
<rharper> yar
<rharper> lutostag: also, you might forget to send meeting notes =)
<lutostag> and meeting is Oct 14th not 17 -- I cant add 7
<rharper> hehe
<rharper> lutostag: thanks!
<lutostag> ok, zul then! (assuming I remember notes)
<zul> oh joy...im going to be sick that day :0
<lutostag> thanks everyone!
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  7 17:00:06 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Utopic
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati_> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<sforshee> o/
<kamal> o/
<henrix> o/
<arges> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> dammit, just a sec
<ogasawara> The Utopic kernel has been rebased to the v3.16.4 upstream stable
<ogasawara> kernel.  This is available for testing as of the 3.16.0-21.28 upload to
<ogasawara> the archive.  Please test and let us know your results.
<ogasawara> Also, Utopic Kernel Freeze is this Thurs Oct 9.  Any patches submitted
<ogasawara> after kernel freeze are subject to our Ubuntu kernel SRU policy.  I sent
<ogasawara> a friendly reminder about this to the Ubuntu kernel-team mailing list
<ogasawara> yesterday as well.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct  9 - Utopic Kernel Freeze (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 16 - Utopic Final Freeze (~1 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 23 - Utopic 14.10 Release (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Sept. 30):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Testing
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 19-Sep through 11-Oct
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          19-Sep   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 21-Sep - 27-Sep   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 28-Sep - 04-Oct   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 05-Oct - 08-Oct   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  7 17:04:18 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-07-17.00.moin.txt
<cking> oops, missed the meeting, doh
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-10-09
<sil2100> o/
<bhuey> eep
<jodh> \o
<mvo> hi
<barry> ~o~
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  9 15:03:58 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
<slangasek> caribou jodh cjwatson slangasek doko infinity stgraber sil2100 robru barry mvo bdmurray bhuey
<slangasek> no caribou this morning
<slangasek> jodh: care to start us off?
<jodh> * system-image:
<jodh>   - Fixed missing /home issue.
<jodh>   - Rewrote system-image-upgrader in python (needs testing).
<jodh>   - Enabled cloud-init.
<jodh>   - Testing, testing, testing.
<jodh> á¦
<slangasek> is the new system-image-upgrader in the image now?
<infinity> Was that in shell before?
<jodh> slangasek: not yet - we're waiting to get the image into a stable state so we can test it :)
<jodh> infinity: yeah
<slangasek> jodh: oh.  what's "stable"?
<jodh> slangasek: bootable with network, etc :)
<infinity> jodh: What was the argument for making it use a heavier interpreter?  shell just ran out of tricks?
<mvo> like that it actually boots *cough*
<jodh> infinity: it had to be as it was running in the initramfs way back then.
<infinity> jodh: Ahh, it's moved out of the initrd?  Kay.  That makes a bit more sense, I guess.
<mvo> infinity: json parsing in sh is not great
<stgraber> mvo: come on, my greps were totally fine at parsing json ;)
<slangasek> I just use jsonsh
<slangasek> (jshon?)
<slangasek> cjwatson:
<infinity> s/ in sh.*//
<doko> write a shell plugin
<mvo> stgraber: heh :) right - I must say it worked just fine :)
<slangasek> imported as an environment function
<slangasek> cjwatson: help come save us
<stgraber> actually, the original environment for system-image-upgrader was android busybox with any binary you need having to be statically linked as there's no C library in that environment...
<cjwatson> A couple of hours of patch piloting.
<cjwatson> Upgraded iprutils to 2.4.4.
<cjwatson> Fixed grub-installer bug 1376973 on ppc64el, caused by grub-ieee1275.postinst improvements.
<ubottu> bug 1376973 in grub-installer (Ubuntu) "ppc64el: The 'grub-ieee1275' package failed to install" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1376973
<cjwatson> Chased down a couple of lost copies due to Launchpad librarian outage.
<cjwatson> Tested man-db SRU (bug 1372673).
<ubottu> bug 1372673 in man-db (Ubuntu Trusty) "excessive debconf use when triggered" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1372673
<cjwatson> Some more work on a native D-Bus interface for click.  Split https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/click/info-extension/+merge/237385 out from this.  Still in progress.
<cjwatson> Reviewed https://code.launchpad.net/~cwayne18/phablet-tools/clickbuddy-with-sessions/+merge/237477.
<cjwatson> Upgraded OpenSSH to 6.7p1, released earlier this week.  Spent a while shoehorning the upstream regression test suite into autopkgtest, which was long overdue.  Some work on getting interoperability tests to work (including changes to putty and twisted), though this isn't all in place yet.
<mvo> slangasek: thanks, I was not aware of this one
<cjwatson> Lots of odds and ends of support, freeze upload reviews, etc.
<cjwatson> ..
<cjwatson> sorry, buried in another window
<slangasek> mvo: oh, if jsonsh is actually a thing, I apologize ;)
<cjwatson> slangasek: jq I think
<mvo> slangasek: yeah, there is jshon!
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek>  * working on an embargoed security update; more details later!
<slangasek>  * tinkering yesterday with system-image server due to utf8 breakage (ubuntu-core images broke the world)
<slangasek>  * working to get click core apps split into a custom tarball, so that they're installed by default for community images but not for krillin
<slangasek>  * scheduling interviews this week for the open role
<infinity> Huh, jq looks handy.
<slangasek>  * other stuff I've forgotten
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> doko: your turn
<doko> - Python 3.4.2!
<doko> - bash update, and preparing a test rebuild with a non-essential bash
<doko> - prepare gdb and hardening-wrapper trusty SRUs
<doko> - again, a lot of ftbfs nagging, fixing, syncing
<doko> - GCC 4.9 update (will prepare one more for 14.10, not yet 4.9.2)
<doko> - llvm merges and updates
<doko> - gdb 7.8 branch updates
<doko> - openjdk-8 update
<doko> - libtool-bin split NMUs
<doko> (done)
<infinity> - queue reviews
<infinity> - updated a bunch of ppc packages
<infinity> - more queue reviews
<infinity> - experimented with powerpc on sapphire
<infinity> - working on fixing up all the cross-toolchain stuff
<infinity> - kernel SRU wrangling
<infinity> - stuff and things
<infinity> (done)
<slangasek> doko: hmm, why a test rebuild with non-essential bash?  Are you doing this against Debian or Ubuntu?
<sil2100> My turn?
<stgraber> sil2100: yeah, go ahead, I'm not supposed to be here :)
<sil2100> Ah ;)
<sil2100> - Landing team work, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - CI Train maintenance and features:
<sil2100>   * Not much free cycles to finish up existing branches
<sil2100>   * Tweaking the unit tests for the dual-landing publishing
<sil2100>   * In-preprod tests of dual landing mode
<sil2100>   * Looking into an issue with sync silos build progress tracking
<doko> slangasek, I can't currently in Ubuntu, pending some action from wgrant. so Debian it will be
<sil2100> - Patch pilot duty:
<sil2100>   * Commenting on bug-1284111 MR for ristretto
<sil2100>   * Checking the eiciel release bug and patches, changing it to a FFe
<sil2100>   * Some clean-up on bugs
<sil2100> - Writing CI Train landing process documentation
<sil2100> - Updating the NewbieGuide for trainguards regarding the sync functionality
<doko> why? to make the bash usage explit
<sil2100> - Coordinating some big landings this week
<sil2100> - Fixes to the commitlog generation scripts to accomodate changes to the spreadsheet
<doko> explicit even
<sil2100> - Multiple discussions on the landing process
<sil2100> - More packaging advice and reviews
<sil2100> (done)
<bhuey> Previous week
<bhuey> -TCK runtime work, worked on a basic lxc creation script to create that environment on a QA machine
<bhuey> -got JCK-compiler/devtools working perfectly across precise/trusty/utopic
<bhuey> -got JCK-runtime working but still need configuration
<bhuey> Last week
<bhuey> -learned about Replaces: and Breaks:, fixed LP: #1359078
<bhuey> -compiled libphonenumber and regenerate results to close LP: #1366685
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1359078 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "package openjdk-7-jdk 7u55-2.4.7-1ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-i386/src.zip', which is also in package openjdk-7-source 7u55-2.4.7-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1359078
<bhuey> This week
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1366685 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu Utopic) "libphonenumber fails to build on arm64" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1366685
<bhuey> -create a branch for the TCK container environment, https://code.launchpad.net/~bill-huey/+junk/lxc-tck-script
<bhuey> -move to icedtea7-2.5.3, resolved a number of patch conflicts. Got clean compile but I need to update a few patches to fix build issues with jamvm
<bhuey> -focus on applying the latest security update
<bhuey> (done)
<bhuey> (done)
<slangasek> doko: ok, well I was going to say that it makes no sense to do this only in Ubuntu and *should* be done against Debian ;)
<barry> robru around?
<slangasek> doko: but also that I think the first step should be moving bash from essential to build-essential, which doesn't require any rebuild tests
<cjwatson> I still think a test rebuild won't show up very much
<infinity> ^
<infinity> Most of the problems will be runtime, not buildtime.
<cjwatson> as soon as you have something that does need to (build-)depends: bash, then all failures above that will become invisible
<slangasek> robru's on vac
<slangasek> barry: your turn
<cjwatson> things like checkbashisms seem like a better way to scan for this
<barry> trainguarding, monkeypushing, spreadsh*ting, dashboardsurfing, wikiwhacking
<barry> system-image: LP: #1373467.  internal discussions and conference calls.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1373467 in Ubuntu system image "Support config.d directory" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1373467
<barry> debuntu: LP: #1376736 and pycurl 7.19.5-2ubuntu1.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1376736 in pycurl (Ubuntu) "[FFe] update to pycurl 7.19.5" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1376736
<barry> --done--
<slangasek> cjwatson: by this point, checkbashisms is probably moot and what we really need to scan for is #!/bin/bash
<cjwatson> well either way yeah
<cjwatson> also of course SHELL = /bin/bash etc.
<doko> yep, I'll do that first then
<infinity> Scanning for #!/bin/bash will catch most, and then you have the pain of wading through a grep of "bash .*" and filtering out everything that's a documentation string instead of someone calling a script with bash.
<cjwatson> and a ton of things where autotools likes to use bash if it can find it
<slangasek> but of course, SHELL = /bin/bash is only at build time, which again is why I think that, given that this is severable we should treat it separately
<slangasek> mvo: your turn
<mvo> Short week, friday was a public holiday in germany
<mvo> apt:
<mvo> - Cve-CVE-2014-7206 (precise, trusty, utopic, wheezy) symlink attack
<mvo> - Debug/fix Bug#764442 and check for possible security implications
<mvo> - Review/merge donkult/feature/_apt_for_partial
<mvo> - Review/merge patch for Bug#764467
<mvo> - Work on feature/expected-size (ensure we fail if more than max.
<mvo>   data is written)
<ubottu> ** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2014-7206)
<mvo> - Work on feature/acq-trans
<mvo> click:
<mvo> - make app stop on remove in lp:~mvo/click/lp1232130-kill-on-remove-2,
<mvo>   (tricky as ubuntu-app-stop needs the session bus)
<mvo> - add click info --remote to get details about a click
<mvo>   (lp:~mvo/click/repository)
<mvo> - add click (sso) login command (lp:~mvo/click/sso)
<mvo> - Merge acquire+sso (lp:~mvo/click/sso+acquire) but not useful yet
<mvo>   because public.apps.ubuntu.com has a gnutls issue (MP pending)
<mvo> - Review/merge lp:~cjwatson/click/info-extension
<mvo> misc:
<mvo> - review lp:~cwarner/unattended-upgrades/whitelisting
<mvo> system-image:
<mvo> - Add --keyboard-layout option to create-ubuntu-core-image.py
<mvo> - Build the system-image without recommends
<mvo> - Fixes in the system-image seed
<mvo> - Create ssh host keys in create-ubuntu-core-image.py (first boot not
<mvo>   a option due to insufficient entropy, thanks Colin!)
<slangasek> oh, that reminds me, no one's mentioned yet - this coming Monday is a bank holiday in the US, we're celebrating Canadian Thanksgiving
<mvo> - Debug/fix /userdata/cache creation
<mvo> - Ensure /etc/hosts has sensible defaults
<mvo> - Ensure dbus machie-id is available via ExecStartPre line in systemd unit
<mvo> - lp:~mvo/livecd-rootfs/no-recommends-for-system-image
<mvo> - lp:~mvo/livecd-rootfs/system-image-include-hosts
<mvo> - Debug boot problem (still in progress)
<mvo> (done)
<infinity> mvo: Your "short weeks" make me feel very inadequate.
<infinity> slangasek: You're doing what now?
<slangasek> infinity: you didn't know we celebrate Canadian Thanksgiving?
<infinity> slangasek: (And yeah, remind me that I need to take a swap day for that)
<barry> infinity: isn't every week a shorts week?  oh wait, we're not talking about pants
<mvo> infinity: haha, it was actually a long week with a day off :)
<slangasek> infinity: though down here, we call it Peter Falk Day
<barry> slangasek: yeah, me too
<bdmurray> landed daisy r541: daisy/retracer.py: workaround apport AssertionError when retracing a crash with an invalid key
<bdmurray> r453 daisy/submit.py: return bad response for crash reports that cause a memory error when trying to decode them
<bdmurray> updated oopsrepository and daisy to prevent submission of duplicate crash reports from the same system
<bdmurray> updated daisy-charm to run oopsrepository's schema.py so that new column families are created
<bdmurray> searched for OOPSes with corrupt COREs in the Error Tracker that can be removed
<bdmurray> modified accepted CORE reviewer to mark crashes w/o a package, release or executable path for deletion
<bdmurray> investigation into not receiving crash notifications from Trusty UVT machine
<bdmurray> uploaded update-notifier crash notification race condition (file not writable yet) fix
<bdmurray> uploaded Trusty SRU fix for LP: #1378134 regarding crash notifications
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1378134 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Trusty) "update-notifier crash detection checks for writable crash files" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1378134
<bdmurray> nvestigation into status of apport and whoopsie smoke tests (passing!)
<bdmurray> research into RTM crashes failure to retrace this is due to (LP: #1362496)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1362496 in base-files (Ubuntu-rtm 14.09) "LSB release and /etc/os-release still say "Utopic", needs to be RTM" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1362496
<bdmurray> discussion with evan and pitti regarding crash reporting for click packages
<bdmurray> SRU verification and release of fix for apport bug LP: #1354571
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1354571 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "apport-retrace ignores warnings from gdb" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1354571
<bdmurray> uploaded utopic curl bug fix for LP: #1375663
<bdmurray> uploaded apport fixes for LP: #1376374, LP: #1345569
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1375663 in curl (Ubuntu) "curl handles EINTR wrong" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1375663
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1376374 in apport (Ubuntu) "whoopsie-upload-all will run hooks on a corrupt crash file multiple times" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1376374
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1345569 in apport (Ubuntu) "recoverable_problem crashed with ValueError in add_proc_info(): invalid process" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1345569
<bdmurray> And I'm actually taking tomorrow not Monday off.
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> no Peter Falk movies for you
<slangasek> bhuey: hi
<bhuey> slangasek: hey
<slangasek> bhuey: oh, you went earlier, didn't you
<bhuey> yes
<slangasek> you were out of order! throwing me off :)
<slangasek> Ok.  Any questions from anyone re: status?
<bhuey> sorry
<barry> slangasek: i have princess bride and made in my netflix queue
<slangasek> any more Columbo jokes?
<slangasek> barry: haha
<bdmurray> cjwatson: I've heard that you did some researchin into bug 1362496 and changing base-files?
<ubottu> bug 1362496 in base-files (Ubuntu-rtm 14.09) "LSB release and /etc/os-release still say "Utopic", needs to be RTM" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1362496
<slangasek> barry: we seem to be the only two finding this funny
<cjwatson> bdmurray: â infinity really; the issue is that a bunch of packages conditionalise on lsb_release at build time, and we can't just make a bunch of stuff fail to build or worse even misbuild just before RTM
<barry> slangasek: we're the only ones getting falked i guess
<cjwatson> even though it's ugly it's safer to work around it elsewhere for now
<bdmurray> with the hope of doing the less ugly thing later?
<cjwatson> yeah
<cjwatson> basically I looked into it sufficiently to decide that it was too scary at the moment
<slangasek> conditionalize on lsb_release > project to port these to dpkg-vendor?
<bdmurray> cjwatson: okay, that wasn't clear from the information in the bug report
<infinity> bdmurray: To be fair, my hope is that "later", phone releases *are* based on stable Ubuntu releases, and not massive forks, but I get the impression that utopia won't exist for a while. :(
<cjwatson> slangasek: dpkg-vendor doesn't give you series information
<slangasek> right
<cjwatson> I think this should go in the derived distro post-mortem when we do one of those
<infinity> bdmurray: But the massive engineering burden in maintaining two parallel distros is something we can't keep up forever either.
<slangasek> the current problem is that nothing on RTM is retracing because apport doesn't like it; that's a critical problem
<cjwatson> does apport use os-release in preference to lsb-release?
<slangasek> so we need a short-term solution
<cjwatson> it *is* possible that we could change JUST os-release, I think
<slangasek> I think pitti implied that it does, on the bug log
<cjwatson> I still think it probably needs an archive grep for safety
<bdmurray> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/183721050/apport.rtm-hack.debdiff
<cjwatson> is that Canonistack instance with the archive search engine still up somewhere?
<bdmurray> that's the change to apport that would work and it mentions "This is read from /etc/os-release, or if that doesn't exist..."
<infinity> bdmurray: That works too.
<cjwatson> I've lost the URL
<slangasek> cjwatson, infinity: btw, "derived distribution post-mortem" added to the sprint agenda
<cjwatson> oh thanks
<bdmurray> so it looks to me like apport prefers /etc/os-release
<Laney> I shut it down because it was giving incomplete results, which is misleading
<Laney> Need time to resurrect
<cjwatson> infinity: would you be happier with just an os-release change?  I do still think we need to search for it somehow
<cjwatson> Laney: how long would that take?
<Laney> Don't know, sorry, I didn't even really look into what the problem was
<slangasek> maybe you just want to run an instance of the security team's archive grep as a one-off?
<Laney> jdstrand can do archive greps, advise doing that for now
<slangasek> as they have well-exercised tooling for unpacking the world and grepping it
<bdmurray> I had that setup at one point in time too
<Laney> Sprint might be a good time to go away and try to fix it
<Laney> (said everyone ever)
<infinity> cjwatson: I think that would still need a grep, but I bet the hits for 'os-release' in the entire distro will be only a few, and hopefully mostly irrelevant.
<slangasek> bdmurray: can you do that archive grep for os-release, and we'll discuss (w/ infinity, cjwatson) the findings if necessary?
<bdmurray> slangasek: yes, but it'd be utopic not the rtm archive
<infinity> bdmurray: Close enough.
<slangasek> bdmurray: if that's the easiest for you to run, JFDI and we can pare down the results afterwards
<infinity> My guess is that you'll find a reference or two in systemd and maybe GNOME, and then our own tools (like apport) that opportunistically started looking at it.
<infinity> And none of those would be cause for concern.
<slangasek> (I don't expect there to be any *new* uses of os-release in rtm that we care about)
<infinity> But definitely want to be sure.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else under "general business"?
<slangasek> as mentioned, Monday's a holiday for US and Canada
<bdmurray> bug 1265192 - cjwatson will you be looking at it?
<ubottu> bug 1265192 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "Install/reinstall wipes out all/other partitions" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1265192
<slangasek> and next week is Plumbers/Kontinental Kernel Kongress
<cjwatson> bdmurray: yeah, on my "RSN" todo
<slangasek> so we're going to be a bit skeleton crew for the next week
<slangasek> [TOPIC] click native-dbus
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: click native-dbus
<slangasek> in the meantime, trying to get us back in the rhythm of having presentations at the meetings
<cjwatson> yeah, apparently I stepped back slowest
<slangasek> cjwatson is going to talk a bit about the work he's doing with click's "native dbus" support
 * sil2100 readies his eyes
<cjwatson> ok, so I've been working on adding a native D-Bus interface to click, aiming to replace its use of PackageKit
<cjwatson> up to now we've got away with relying on PK (mostly pkcon, its CLI client) for this
<cjwatson> unfortunately PK upstream is about to drop plugin support, which is going to kick the chair-legs out from under us in the V cycle
<cjwatson> cf. http://blog.tenstral.net/2014/09/listaller-back-to-the-future.html
<doko> slangasek, one more thing for AOB, are the tutorial/workshop proposals for the sprint decided?
<cjwatson> I'd always intended to have a more natural native interface anyway - using PK was expedient at the time, but it has some assumptions that don't *quite* fit, esp. for command-line use
<cjwatson> things like the weird way you have to figure out IDs in order to remove packages, for instance
<slangasek> doko: I haven't heard
<cjwatson> we also don't actually need the fancier things we get from PK, really, like searching both apt and click in a single view
<cjwatson> given that we're trying to make click work on the server now, we need a nice CLI, and this is just forcing the issue for us.
<cjwatson> so, I've been working on adding a native service.  Vala makes this quite nice and this broadly seems to let me install and remove packages via dbus-send
<cjwatson>   $ wc -l lib/click/dbus-*.vala
<cjwatson>      66 lib/click/dbus-interface.vala
<cjwatson>     296 lib/click/dbus-service.vala
<cjwatson>     362 total
<cjwatson> it's basically com.ubuntu.Click.{InstallFile,RemovePackage} right now
<cjwatson> the next thing is to have click notice when it's being called from its own service.  if not, it'll call itself under the hood, and the service will detect the calling user
<cjwatson> that way, rather than needing to do:
<cjwatson>   pkcon install-local foo.click
<cjwatson> or:
<cjwatson>   sudo click install --user=$USER foo.click
<cjwatson> you'll be able to just do:
<cjwatson>   click install foo.click
<cjwatson> Michael has been working on a companion to this, package acquisition support from the store or from URLs
<cjwatson> combining these, you'll be able to do:
<cjwatson>   click install foo
<cjwatson>   click install http://example.org/foo.click
<cjwatson> (conditional on signing etc.)
<cjwatson> the PK plugin will stick around for a while, not least because unity-scope-click is relying on it - I want a graceful transition.  but its days are numbered
<cjwatson> that's it, any questions?
<mvo> is there a branch available to play with it yet :) ?
<cjwatson> will try to get that up by tomorrow - I want to at least sketch the client side to make sure it works properly
 * mvo nods
<mvo> no real rush from my side, I'm just curious about it
<cjwatson> yeah, I need to finish it before the release rush starts anyway otherwise it'll fall by the wayside
 * mvo nods again
<slangasek> no other questions from me
<slangasek> sounds really straightforward and awesome
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> what's the ratio of lines of vala to lines of test code? :)
<cjwatson> er cough ask me that next week :P
<slangasek> :-)
<cjwatson> it will be unit-tested somehow but I didn't exactly TDD it
<barry> vala seems cool
<infinity> Cool, but a bit on the scary magic side too.
<slangasek> is there an idiomatic test harness for testing vala, or does one just use a generic one for C-ish things?
<mvo> its interessting, sometimes I wish for a bit more documentation
<cjwatson> click in general has about a 1.3:1 ratio of test code to code under test
<infinity> Compilers that compile to other languages so you can have a compiler in your compiler tend to have some of the most fascinating misfeatures.
<cjwatson> slangasek: click uses its own entertaining harness
<cjwatson> it's perhaps worth a talk by itself, though I've mentioned it around here before
<cjwatson> we generate LD_PRELOAD modules on the fly which allow Python methods to stand in as mocks for C functions
<slangasek> infinity: http://www.yodawgyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/xzibit-yo-dawg-i-heard-you-like-math.jpg
<cjwatson> and then indeed you just treat Vala like C
<slangasek> cjwatson: ah, so this would be integrated with the existing click harness, sure
<cjwatson> it's ... not perfect
<slangasek> :)
<cjwatson> but it does the job if you're careful
<slangasek> cool
<cjwatson> using ctypes for it was a bad idea
<slangasek> any other questions?
<infinity> s/for it //
<cjwatson> what it really needs is the other half of pygobject exposed so that it can marshal things that way
<cjwatson> since it's already relying on gobject-introspection
<infinity> Mentions of python ctypes are a PTSD trigger for me.
<cjwatson> infinity: I didn't realise it wasn't properly 64-bit clean!  I mean for goodness' sake it's 2014
<cjwatson> but by the time I realised that I'd already sunk several days into it ...
<infinity> cjwatson: It is, indeed, 2014.  Say, how do you feel about threads? :)
<cjwatson> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil
<shadeslayer> e^vil
<infinity> Somewhere, there's a kettle screaming your name.
<slangasek> but, but.  we have to do *something* with all that yak wool
<cjwatson> come back to me when somebody proves a pthreads program correct
<infinity> cjwatson: Much easier to prove them 99% not incorrect.
<infinity> cjwatson: I call it faith-based programming.
<cjwatson> it's the 1% that worries me :)
<slangasek> infinity: which is better than faith-based debugging, where you gather the community and everyone lays hands on the laptop lid
<slangasek> ok.  done here? :)
<cjwatson> generally Vala has been fine for me though.  I gather it's scary if you pile on the features too much, but for what I'm doing it's easy enough and it's nice to be able to look at its compiled code
<infinity> slangasek: Keep your weird oils off my laptop.
<cjwatson> yep, I think so
<infinity> cjwatson: How prety (or not) is the intermediate code?
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks for filling us in on this cool bit of work
<slangasek> y'all can keep talking, but some of us have other meetings to get to ;)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  9 15:58:52 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-09-15.03.moin.txt
<barry> hallelujah
<cjwatson> infinity: well it's compiled, but it's not unreadably terrible
 * mvo waves
<infinity> cjwatson: I haven't looked at it in many years, but it used to be pretty unreadable without a pass through several filters.
<cjwatson> infinity: e.g. http://paste.ubuntu.com/8527605/ for lib/click/database.vala
<cjwatson> lots of _tmpN_
<cjwatson> but you can see the structure
<infinity> cjwatson: Ahh, but it at least looks like it's had some abuse with indent(1).
<infinity> cjwatson: This is progress.
<cjwatson> that's 834 lines of actual source, 4232 of C
<cjwatson> and TBH, when I was writing it out by hand with all the GError handling you need, it wasn't far short of that anyway
<cjwatson> gobjecty code in C is pretty verbose
<infinity> cjwatson: Yeah, it looks a fair bit cleaner than the vala I remember.  Either that's luck of the bits you're using, or it's improved a fair bit.
<infinity> cjwatson: It used to look like a CompSci student's first java project.  Skeletons for dozens of functions you'll never actually use, formatted by a toddler on acid, etc.
 * infinity unmeetings.
<jdstrand> sorry I was in a meeting
<jdstrand> do I need to do something for someone?
<jdstrand> Laney, slangasek: ^
<slangasek> jdstrand: no, we were just discussing methods to grep the archive for a string, and "jdstrand-rpc" was mentioned ;)
<jdstrand> slangasek: yeah, it is a pretty slow round trip call, but it is available :)
<davmor2> IdleOne: seems you have a fan
<IdleOne> davmor2: I'm just that lovable :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-10-06
<coreycb> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  6 16:00:06 2015 UTC.  The chair is coreycb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<coreycb> Hi all, welcome to this week's Ubuntu Server meeting.
<coreycb> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<coreycb> there were no actions from last weeks meeting
<coreycb> #topic Wily Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Wily Development
<coreycb> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<coreycb> Thurs Oct 8th is kernel freeze for Wily
<coreycb> and 2 weeks after that is Final Release for Wily
<coreycb> getting there!
<coreycb> #subtopic Release Bugs
<coreycb> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<coreycb> The nova bug is high priority
<coreycb> bug 1398999
<ubottu> bug 1398999 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Block migrate with attached volumes copies volumes to themselves" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1398999
<coreycb> looks like hallyn is on that from a libvirt perspective and it's assigned to someone upstream for nova
<coreycb> hallyn, want to add anything on that?
<coreycb> well, moving on as it looks like that bug is covered
<coreycb> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)n
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)n
<caribou> coreycb: o/
<caribou> nothing particular on my side
<coreycb> caribou, hey, ok
<caribou> kdump-tools fix for OOM is being reviewed by the kernel team
<coreycb> caribou, alright thanks
<coreycb> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<matsubara> hi coreycb, nothing new to report
<coreycb> matsubara, ok
<coreycb> and hi :)
<coreycb> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Open to questions but nothing to report.
<smb> Oh maybe ... just to check: caribou you got my email?
<caribou> smb: yes
<caribou> smb: I'd like to add a hook for the remove portion
<smb> caribou, ok just checking since I sent that and right after closed email client... That sound good
<caribou> smb: yes, it made it to France ;-)
<smb> :)
<coreycb> does anyone have anything else for the Kernel team?
<coreycb> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<coreycb> any call for papers coming up that anyone knows of?
<coreycb> I don't know of any..
<coreycb> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<coreycb> any Ubuntu specific events going on?
<coreycb> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<coreycb> if anyone has anything else to bring up, now's your chance
<coreycb> alright I think we'll end this lively meeting now!
<coreycb> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<coreycb> We'll see you next Tues at the same time
<coreycb> arosales is next in line to chair
<coreycb> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  6 16:15:47 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-10-06-16.00.moin.txt
<caribou> thanks coreycb
<matsubara> thanks coreycb
<coreycb> thanks for coming!
<kickinz1> thanks!
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  6 17:00:05 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ogasawara> o/
<sforshee> o/
<henrix> o/
<bjf> o/
<arges> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We are approaching Wily Kernel Freeze this Thurs Oct 8, ~2 days away!
<ogasawara> If there are any patches which need to land for 15.10, please get them
<ogasawara> submitted immediately.  Following the Kernel Freeze deadline, all
<ogasawara> patches are subject to our SRU policy and could miss the release.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct  8 - Kernel Freeze (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 15 - Final Freeze (~1 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 22 - 15.10 Release (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/lts-utopic/Vivid (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/lts-utopic/Vivid (bjf)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   *     Precise - Kernel Prep
<bjf>   *      Trusty - Kernel Prep
<bjf>   *  lts-Utopic - Kernel Prep
<bjf>   *      Vivid  - Kernel Prep
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 27-Sep through 17-Oct
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          25-Sep   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 27-Sep - 03-Oct   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 04-Oct - 10-Oct   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 11-Oct - 17-Oct   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf> Note: We have gotten off to a late start on this cycle due to some patches
<bjf>       that came in at the last minute. We intend to stick to the schedule
<bjf>       though that may change as we get farther along.
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  6 17:02:55 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-10-06-17.00.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-10-08
<pitti> o/
<infinity> \o
<sil2100> o/
<caribou> \o/
<infinity> slangasek: Do you mind if I s/pitti/cyphermox/ for the release sprint?
<infinity> cyphermox: And do you? :P
<pitti> great! now infinity broke the nice wave pattern
<infinity> I'm a terrible person.
<tdaitx> o/
<sil2100> You want them to... change nicknames for the sprint?
<sil2100> wow
<barry> ~o~
<slangasek> infinity: hmm, give me a bit to think about it and we'll talk about it after the meeting?
<pitti> Ã§a va ! je suis un Canadien maintenant !
<doko> first budapest, then canada ...
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct  8 15:02:58 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<doko> I'll go last ...
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx)
<slangasek> robru pitti infinity sil2100 barry doko caribou tdaitx bdmurray slangasek cyphermox
<robru> I win!
<robru> lp:cupstream2distro
<robru> - sometimes lp doesn't respond to a copyPackage even if it copies successfully. Catch & warn the resulting exception rather than exploding
<robru> - fix (again) the performance regression when marking silos dirty.
<robru> - support manual sources in dual silos properly.
<robru> - discover ppa source names so users no longer need to type them by hand
<robru> - fix race condition in publisher that was causing duplicate statuses in the audit log
<robru> - clarify error when releasing wily trunk for vivid.
<robru> - stop considering duplicate assignment attempts as an error, tell the user the silo is already assigned, and set bileto status correctly
<robru> - force all dual silos to publish wily+vivid into overlay.
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> - Auto-linkify bug numbers in description
<robru> - Stop letting long lines overflow cards.
<robru> - fix bug with comment box losing contents during page refresh
<robru> - discover and display artifacts URL to user.
<robru> - totally redesign web frontend, fixing many UX issues
<robru> - allow people to limit searches to only active requests
<robru> - increase audit logging to include when users edit requests
<robru> - streamline some redundant logic between a couple db model classes
<robru> (done)
<slangasek> pitti:
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - Correctly install main linux kernel for DKMS tests in LXC
<pitti>  - Don't clobber already passed tests with failures from new uploads (#1501697)
<pitti>  - Fine-tune tests triggered by gcc packages
<pitti>  - Make linux* depend on linux-meta* (#1498807)
<pitti>  - Discuss better/earlier autopkgtest coverage for silos with robru, slangasek, and jibel
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - langpack-o-matic: Fix erroneously discarded languages, rebuild wily packs
<pitti>  - various bug fixes in networkd (#1500992), open-iscsi (#1501033), python-dbusmock, systemd (#1492546), udev (#795494 and others)
<pitti>  - postgresql: Prepare new upstream security/bug fix releases for all supported Ubuntu releases (#1504132)
<pitti>  - tons of tiny requests, mails, bug triage, and other catch-up after sprint week
<pitti> END
<infinity> - Kernel SRUs
<infinity> - Emergency kernel security update
<infinity> - s390x bootstrapping
<infinity> - Release prep
<infinity> - Finalizing release sprint details
<infinity> - Lots of queue reviews
<infinity> (done)
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM Status meetings
<sil2100> - OTA-7 preparations
<sil2100>   * Preparing the snapshot, coordinating translations, announcements
<sil2100> - +1 maintenance, working through the list of FTBFS from the wily test-rebuild:
<sil2100>   * Fixed unity-voice build failure
<sil2100>   * Poked barry for syncing wheel to fix its FTBFS
<sil2100>   * Requested sync of python-traceback2
<sil2100>   * Preparation of changes for ubuntuone-client-data
<sil2100>   * Work on python-pysaml2 FTBFS - still a few failures left
<sil2100>   * Check sponsor request for sflphone
<sil2100> - Refreshed touch seeds, removing friends from the seeds
<sil2100> - Play around with a new UI mockup for requests
<sil2100> - Looking into possible solutions of displaying OTA tags on images
<sil2100>   * Investigated the idea of an OTA map
<sil2100>   * Looked into appending tags in system-image server json files
<sil2100> (done)
<barry> debuntu: LP: #1501805; wheel 0.26.0-1; git transition in dpmt (it is happening!); research for LP: #1500768; pex 1.0.3-2 and 1.0.3-2ubuntu1 to unblock wheel promotion in wily-proposed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1501805 in python-apt (Ubuntu) "Sync python-apt 1.0.1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501805
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1500768 in python3.4 (Ubuntu Trusty) "python3.4.3 SRU break requests" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1500768
<barry> system-image: discussion, research, etc. around LP: #1475568
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1475568 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Use OTA terminology in system settings" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1475568
<barry> recovered from a server crash, including landscape breakages (issue reported, diagnosed, resolved)
<barry> --done--
<caribou> doko ?
<caribou> or should I go next ?
<caribou> Bugfix :
<caribou> - Bug #1496317 Wily failed kdump crash smb reviewed it. Minor fixes. Will need to be SRUed
<caribou> - sosreport autopkgtests
<caribou> - Memory leak analysis
<caribou> - mpt2sas firmware version for Trusty
<caribou> - 70-persistent-rule bug SRU
<caribou> Booked flights for sprint
<ubottu> bug 1496317 in kexec-tools (Ubuntu) "kexec fails with OOM killer with the current crashkernel=128 value" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496317
<caribou> Done
<tdaitx> Short week:
<tdaitx> 1. US biometrics collection on last Thursday afternoon
<tdaitx> 2. US visa interview on Monday, flight to and back from SÃ£o Paulo
<tdaitx> Current/Past
<tdaitx> - Squid bugs squash^W triage; was checking if my 3.3.14 update fixed any (no such luck), so I decided to spend a few more minutes in each to triage them
<tdaitx> - Updated Squid3 from 3.3.8-1ubuntu16 to 3.3.14-0ubuntu1 (LP: #1502178)
<tdaitx> - Fix mesa FTBFS; missing mirclient dependency on either mir-client-platform-mesa or on mesa's configure.ac (LP: #1503450)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1502178 in squid3 (Ubuntu) "update squid from 3.3.8 to 3.3.14" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1502178
<tdaitx> - Investigated fix for LP: #1073478; needs SRU
<tdaitx> - Trying to get JDK-8073139 reviews up and running again
<tdaitx> - Finished my Core Dev application wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TiagoDaitx/CoreDeveloperApplication)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1503450 in Mir "mesa FTBFS due to missing Requires in mirclient" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1503450
<tdaitx> Next steps
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1073478 in squid3 (Ubuntu) "squid3 logrotate fails when squid is not running" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1073478
<tdaitx> - get icedtea 2.7-preXX packaged and building
<tdaitx> - triage openjdk 7 to check which bugs have been fixed by icedtea 2.7
<tdaitx> - get some comments and endorsements for my core dev application
<tdaitx> - verify OpenJDK 6 TLS patch (LP: #1482924)
<tdaitx> Waiting/On hold
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1482924 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "Regressions due to USN-2696-1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1482924
<tdaitx> - waiting OCA to submit webrevs for 7093640 backport (set TLS 1.1 as default for JDK 6 and TLS 1.2 as default for JDK 7); not blocking anything for now, just waiting
<tdaitx> (done)
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding updating apport on staging, prod retracers x 2
<bdmurray> discovered and fixed Traceback with apport on production retracers
<bdmurray> fixed different apport traceback with -dbgsym packages
<bdmurray> rewrite of cql async query for failed to retrace bucketing
<bdmurray> confirmed that we are retracing less foreign origin packages on 12.04
<bdmurray> fixed privacy issue with LP: #1494361
<bdmurray> update meta-release-proposed file for LP: #1497024
<bdmurray> updated meta-release files for the ubuntu-release-upgrader in vivid-updates
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1494361 could not be found
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1497024 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "release upgrades should jump over unsupported releases" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1497024
<bdmurray> T, V SRU verification of LP: #1497024
<bdmurray> T, V SRU verification of LP: #1498193
<bdmurray> irc discussion re fix for LP: #1498697 (rejected upload in the queue)
<bdmurray> rls-w bug review
<bdmurray> uploaded update-manager fix for LP: #1215114
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader fix for LP: #1313514
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1498193 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Trusty) "demoted.cfg is a broken symlink in the upgrader tarball" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1498193
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1498697 in tgt (Ubuntu Precise) "Targets are not consistently shown with large numbers of targets" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1498697
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1215114 in update-manager (Ubuntu Wily) "_get_linux_packages function needs updating" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1215114
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1313514 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Blacklist entry for ubuntu-release-upgrader should be more specific so it doesn't match ubuntu-release-upgrader-qt if kubuntu-desktop is not the desktop meta package" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313514
<bdmurray> tested and uploaded a fix for whoopsie bug LP: #1389357
<bdmurray> retrace of autofs crash bug LP: #1503034
<bdmurray> reported ubiquity LP: #1503441 regarding installer crashing with a 8GB install
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1389357 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "whoopsie reuses CRASH_DB_IDENTIFIER on next run" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1389357
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1503034 in autofs (Ubuntu) "Autofs 5.1.1-1ubuntu2 crashes with segfault on startup" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1503034
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1503441 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "8 GB isn't enough to install Ubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1503441
<bdmurray> research into and uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader fix for LP: #1502529
<bdmurray> â done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1502529 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) ""Upgrading Ubuntu to version " not translated" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1502529
<pitti> bdmurray: thanks for the -dbgsym fix, that also was the one breaking the tests
<bdmurray> pitti: Ah, I didn't see that test failure.
<doko> tdaitx, wait, is 2.7-preXX meant to be the next release, not 2.6.2?
<pitti> bdmurray: I didn't get it locally either, but during the CI autopkgtest run
<bdmurray> pitti: Is there a way to subscribe to emails about those?
<pitti> bdmurray: not email, just XSS for now (http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/data/feeds/a/apport.xml)
<pitti> email notifications are coming
<slangasek>  * still working on recruiting for the open positions
<slangasek>  * discussions about improving the autopkgtest system use with silos and generally
<doko> - finish libav/ffmpeg transition, remove libav from wily
<doko> - finish libept transition
<doko> - backported ppc64el and s390 support for libseccomp
<doko> - hdf5 transition
<doko> - looking at a python3.4 regression in trusty-updates
<slangasek>  * meetings: POWER, s390x
<doko> - report a GCC memory hog upstream, found in insighttoolkit4
<doko> - fixing build failures
<slangasek>  * looking at juju on s390x to figure out if we will have performance problems there like we did on POWER due to memory pressure
<doko> - prepared and started the test rebuild, buildd give backs
<slangasek>  * trying to figure out the system-image key rotation, it looks like we won't have quorum at the sprint so this will need to be done in London
<doko> - one more GCC update
<doko> - openjdk-7 and openjdk-8 updates
<slangasek>  * reviewed and tested the patches to bug #1439769, to land in wily
<doko> - still trying to build gcc-snapshot on all archs
<slangasek>  * sprint travel planning
<doko> - prepare python-greenlet and valgrind SRU's, validate them
<slangasek> (done)
<ubottu> bug 1439769 in update-manager (Ubuntu Vivid) "various linux packages being marked as manually installed, still prevents 'apt-get autoremove' from doing the right thing for kernels" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1439769
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> hmm :)
<doko> oops
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<tdaitx> doko, I'm trying to check that with andrew, but he is out this week, anyway I only saw 2.7-pre tags being added
<cyphermox> eep, I wasn't quite ready
<cyphermox> so;
<cyphermox>  - firmware update stuff
<cyphermox>  - upload ubiquity-slideshow
<cyphermox>  - fixed usb-modeswitch
<cyphermox>  - discussions/review for upstart-watchdog fixes
<cyphermox> and multipath bugfixes
<tdaitx> doko, anyway, he has released both micro and minor releases together in the past
<cyphermox> along with random other things, I forget :/
<cyphermox> (done)
<doko> see above: ^ ^
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> any questions?
<slangasek> infinity: maybe you want to discuss the python3.4 SRU
<barry> slangasek: key rotation!
<caribou> Can someone sponsor LP: #1273462
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1273462 in lsb (Ubuntu Trusty) "Users can mistakenly run init.d scripts and cause problems if an equivalent upstart job already exists" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273462
<caribou> that's the bug we discussed extensively a while back
<infinity> doko: You missed the conversation barry and I just had on mumble, but I think the sane way forward is to back out that one commit in python3.4 itself, rather than try to fix all the rdeps to cope with it.
<infinity> doko: Interface/defaults changes like that aren't particularly SRU-friendly (and there's no guarantee we won't break third-party code, even if we fixed everything we ship in the distro).
<barry> infinity, doko i'm going to bring this up as a general point of discussion on the new linux-sig@python.org
<bdmurray> Please have a look at the rls-w-tracking bugs - http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<doko> wait, which commit?
<infinity> doko: The bit that changes the behaviour incompatibly. :P
<pitti> bdmurray: wow, what happened with the kernel bugs? > 1.500
<doko> I'm lost ...
<barry> doko: this is for LP: #1500768 and it's related to 3.4.3 changes for PEP 476.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1500768 in python3.4 (Ubuntu Trusty) "python3.4.3 SRU break requests" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1500768
<bdmurray> pitti: Its all those CVEs I guess
<barry> doko: you might want to join linux-sig if you're not already, or read it via gmane
<slangasek> caribou: I'm willing to sponsor bug #1273462 but then I wonder if anyone else will approve the SRU :)
<ubottu> bug 1273462 in lsb (Ubuntu Trusty) "Users can mistakenly run init.d scripts and cause problems if an equivalent upstart job already exists" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273462
<caribou> slangasek: I can ping arges about it
<pitti> how about I sponsor, you approve? :-)
<doko> barry, there's nothing about this on the ml ... https://mail.python.org/pipermail/linux-sig/2015-October/thread.html
<barry> doko: not yet :)
<slangasek> doko: are you ok with infinity's suggestion, to back out the behavior change?
<pitti> https://xkcd.com/1172/
<doko> slangasek, I didn't nail it down to a single commit yet. so if he has the commit, that's fine. however reverting the whole pep commit is probably not the right solution
<barry> i don't know which commit it is
<infinity> doko: Oh, I was using "commit" in the abstract sense, I don't have a pointer, sorry.
<infinity> doko: But if it's just a default flag being inverted, as barry suggests, it should be a 1-liner to revert the behaviour, I'd hope.
 * doko goes back to work on that
<infinity> (But, y'know, python, so who knows)
<slangasek> doko: ok.  as various folks have pointed out, rolling back the package from -updates doesn't help the users that have already upgraded over the two weeks that the package was in -updates; so if we're all agreed that reverting this change is a sensible path forward, and if you can prioritize working on it, that would be excellent
<doko> sure
<slangasek> thanks
<barry> thanks
<doko> one more thing, ftbfs ...
<doko> there are still plenty ...
<infinity> barry, doko: I don't think identifying "the commit" is all that important, if you can find the magic 1-liner required to invert the default and that fixes the problem, yay.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Releees
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Releees
<barry> pep 476 has more information in the Implementation section
<slangasek> doko: current pointer for the ftbfs list?
<cyphermox> we have a scary werewolf in the slideshow since today.
<slangasek> there's http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20151001-wily.html
<slangasek> which doesn't have many interesting packages on it; there's some GL package I've never heard of failing to build on two architectures? glibc, anyone heard of it?
<bdmurray> cyphermox: do you have a link to the scariness?
<infinity> cyphermox: Oh, did you do my usual gimping?  Should I review it? :P
<cyphermox> bdmurray: just a sec; fetching the werevervet.
<cyphermox> ftbfs are more important though ;)
<infinity> slangasek: The glibc failures are probably just some racy tests, but I'll look.
<pitti> slangasek: yes, I think the other day the kernel warned me while it saw a double-free that it detected a glibc; that glibc thingy is likely the culprit!
<cyphermox> bdmurray: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/revision/719
<slangasek> doko: fwiw shim is on that list and will be fixed the next time we need to upload shim for other reasons and not before
<slangasek> pitti: these people and their newfangled GL extensions
<doko> slangasek, ok, I'll make a note
<doko> and there are packages stuck in -proposed ... http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html
<slangasek> yaboot ftbfs, solution: remove it from main
<infinity> Ahh, yeah, both those glibc tests are known-flaky.  Need to fix those upstream once and for all.
<infinity> yaboot it on my hitlist, but I failed to find time to switch ppc to grub this cycle.  Maybe I can do it before release for kicks. :P
<cyphermox> doko: I'll look at shim when I get to upload it next, I guess. the bug is already assigned to me.
<pitti> doko: did all of these build just once, or twice? i. e. is it still likely to find a lot of flakiness there, or are these more or less "stable" failures?
<pitti> I've seen a lot of "please retry foo" requests on IRC recently
<pitti> not that they wouldn't be important to fix, but I guess they are a bit less urgent than the stable FTBFS
<doko> pitti, look at the build date. main finished around Oct 3
<slangasek> pitti: if they've built at all they're considered good for these purposes.  Given the number of consistently-failing builds, getting flaky builds to be non-flaky isn't the priority
<doko> I can give back the amd64 and i386 builds, sure
<barry> that's part of the problem, and i saw it repeatedly in the py35asdefault ppa.  one fix can cascade a bunch of other fixes if you do a mass retry
<pitti> right; I wonder about e. g. https://launchpadlibrarian.net/219449079/buildlog_ubuntu-wily-i386.gnutls28_3.3.15-5ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz
<infinity> slangasek: Oh, ouch, that yaboot explosion is actual work to fix.  e2fslibs forced a sad.
<pitti> such things (failure of one test case named "mini-loss-time") certainly smell flaky-ish
<slangasek> infinity: grub!
<infinity> slangasek: On the flip side, yaboot has never had a CVE in the history of ever, so still low prio to care if it builds. :P
<slangasek> more important question, why are there ruby packages in the core packageset
<infinity> slangasek: grub2 is definitely the right answer, though.  I need to sidegrade my PowerStation to grub from yaboot and make sure that's working before I try to flip the installers/ISOs/world.
<infinity> (Also need to hunt down community people with Macs, since Apple's OF is far more likely to break than the SLOF on my machine)
<doko> next time I'll do the test rebuild as a group, so that more people can give back build
<doko> s
<slangasek> barry: looking at http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20151001-wily.html#core there's really not a whole lot of cascading to be done fwiw
<slangasek> doko: you just need to rope the TB members into doing the give-backs for you, apparently
<doko> heh
<pitti> slangasek: wow, ruby-flexmock is in the extra seed
<pitti> oh, gem2deb is in main
<pitti> that probably pulls in tons of stuff
<slangasek> pitti: "in main" != "in the core packageset"
<doko> I already remove a lot of deps from gem2deb
<infinity> slangasek: "in the core packageset" just means it's an intersection of more than one flavour.  Which is likely, if ruby is being trasitively pulled in by something lowish in the stack.
<slangasek> infinity: gem2deb isn't low in the stack, ruby has only ever been in main because of server
<slangasek> and chef+puppet
<doko> yes, still need write that email ...
<slangasek> :)
<pitti> those, and xapian-bindings
<pitti> and subversion
<doko> I don't think we can remove the whole ruby from main, even if we demote chef+puppet
<slangasek> I'm not sure why subversion is in main either
<slangasek> anyway
<slangasek> ftbfs bugs
<slangasek> people will work on them yes?
<doko> pitti, gnutls ftbfs persists
<barry> yes
<infinity> All popular version control systems were in main pretty much since Ubuntu's inception.
<doko> just mention on #ubuntu-devel which one you are starting to work on ...
<infinity> Might be worth revisiting now that the world has (mostly) settled on git as the winner.
<pitti> slangasek: that finally is something which we can change -- it's still in supported-development seed, probably for hysterical raisins?
<barry> +1
<pitti> slangasek: it might have made sense in 2005, but probably not any more
 * pitti sighs reading/tracking germinate output
<pitti> and it's not like it'd go very far if we demote it
<pitti> oh dear, we still have *cvs* in main
<slangasek> yes, I think I suggested culling subversion already a while back; though I guess one of the git bridges might care about it
<pitti> (seeded)
<pitti> but not tla -- outrageous!
<infinity> pitti: Right, CVS was there for the same reason.
<infinity> pitti: tla was dropped like a hot potato when bazaar happened, because reasons.
<barry> infinity: can you add RCS support please?
<infinity> barry: If you have CVS, you have RCS.  Oh, except not, it's only a suggests.
<pitti> ah yes, git build-deps on cvs argh
<infinity> barry: But, really, CVS is just a "user-friendly" RCS. :P
<pitti> so even unseeding it wouldn't help
<infinity> For some definition of "friendly".
<barry> probably "less user-antagonistic"
<infinity> pitti: We waste exactly zero effort on "maintaining" CVS, so it doesn't really matter.
<infinity> SVN is a bit more of a time suck, but then there's the discussion of "would we really stop maintaining it just because it's in universe?"
<slangasek> I don't think we need to loop over the germinate output in realtime here
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else today?
<barry> monday is a usa holiday but i will probably swapday it
<cyphermox> yeah. monday holiday in Canada too.
<slangasek> ah, I'm taking my holiday, don't want to miss out on that Canadian cranberry sauce
<cyphermox> I don't think Catou will want me to swap it
<infinity> slangasek: Just want to resolve the cyphermox/sprint thing before we forget.  Should we take that to mumble?
<cyphermox> slangasek: make your own!
<infinity> And I'll probably take Monday off to go cast a few dozen votes against Harper.
<cyphermox> cranberry sauce is so easy and delicious to make :)
<slangasek> infinity: we should take it to post-meeting, at least
<infinity> Yay, advanced polls.
<cyphermox> infinity: oh, good plan.
<infinity> cyphermox: Yeah, if you're sprinting, you'll miss the election, so do vote this weekend. :)
<cyphermox> too bad I was planning to go up north this weekend :/
<cyphermox> I don't have any OB.
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct  8 15:52:12 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-10-08-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<caribou> thanks slangasek !
<barry> thanks!
<pitti> thanks everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-10-10
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> Anyone here?
<cyphermox> o/
<cyphermox> it's sils turns to chair btw.
<rbasak> It is a US holiday today I hear.
<micahg> sort of
<sil2100> Damn
 * micahg is working
<sil2100> Sorry about this guys, completely lost track of time
<sil2100> Do we have quorum?
<sil2100> I saw cyphermox being aroundish, rbasak and possibly micahg, right?
<cyphermox> rbasak: US holiday but the release week trumps that holiday for a few people.
<rbasak> Yeah, I'm here.
<micahg> do we have anything on the agenda, I thought it looked relatively empty
<sil2100> I suppose we can try starting, not sure if there'll be voting involved
<sil2100> Yeah, let's just try to check the action items
<sil2100> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct 10 19:18:55 2016 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<sil2100> I suppose there was one action item for me to create the juju packageset, but without much priority on that
<sil2100> Didn't do that one yet, but I guess there would be currently no consumers of this packageset so it's not that urgent
<sil2100> I guess no other action items, don't see any from last meeting and all the previous are done
<sil2100> So, there was one e-mail sent to devel-permissions about updating the lubuntu packageset, but from what I understand no vote is required for those
<micahg> that should just be able to be updated by running the packageset update script (with output verified for correctness as usual)
<rbasak> The packageset update script is grossly wrong currently.
<micahg> probably best to do after release
<sil2100> Yeah, last time when running that it wasn't really outputting the correct things though, but anyway - that's an action for sure
<micahg> :(
<sil2100> Anyone wants to pick that up, or should I just do it along creating of the juju packageset?
<rbasak> The last time I did something, I implemented a subset of the script's suggestions manually. That way I made the problem no bigger and got the job done.
<micahg> makes sense
<sil2100> Let me assign that to me then, I'll try doing that semi-manually as well
<sil2100> #action sil2100 to update the lubuntu packageset according to the current seed
<meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to update the lubuntu packageset according to the current seed
<sil2100> btw. did paelzer get his core-dev application reviewed in the end?
<sil2100> Since I can't remember
<sil2100> (Christian Ehrhardt)
<rbasak> Yes, he was approved.
<rbasak> I guess the minutes weren't updated.
<sil2100> Ah, yes, I see that
<sil2100> Thanks
<sil2100> Yeah, finally found the logs, all good then
<sil2100> I'll clean up the agenda after this meeting since it didn't seem to get updated since a while
<sil2100> Aaanyway, for now:
<sil2100> #topic Any other business
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<sil2100> Is there AOB from anyone?
<rbasak> None from me.
<sil2100> Calling once
<sil2100> Calling twice
<sil2100> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct 10 19:30:15 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-10-10-19.18.moin.txt
<sil2100> Ok, big apologies for being late and thanks for hanging around for this quick meeting
 * sil2100 goes to update the agenda
<sil2100> Next chair goes to micahg I guess? Since cyphermox was filling in for me last time
<sil2100> (we swapped)
<micahg> I won't be at the next meeting
<sil2100> Ok, rbasak would you be able to chair next week then?
<sil2100> I mean
<sil2100> Next meeting, not next week
<rbasak> OK
<sil2100> Thanks, I'll note down the 'swap'
<rbasak> Thank you, and for chairing!
<micahg> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-10-11
<jgrimm> o/ hi folks
<cpaelzer> o/
<powersj> o/
<caribou> o/
<jgrimm> looks like i'm subbing today
<jgrimm> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 11 16:01:24 2016 UTC.  The chair is jgrimm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> o/
<jgrimm> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jgrimm> (jgrimm) clean up rls-x and add back to agenda
<jgrimm> done. fixed up wiki and irc cut &paste
<jgrimm> (jamespage) checkin with old iscsitarget users on relevancy with new kernels
<jgrimm> jamespage, ^^ anything new here ^^
<smoser> o/
<jgrimm> will leave that one on the agenda for next week update then. ..
<jgrimm> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<jgrimm> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<jgrimm> obviously been a busy last several weeks for everyone!
<jgrimm> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jgrimm> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> nothing changed there.
<jgrimm> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
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<caribou> clamav + llvm-3.6 issue is fixed, now available
<jgrimm> ah.. thanks for chasing that
<caribou> debian has dropped llvm use until upstream supports llvm-3.8
<jgrimm> interesting
<caribou> so we may elect to do the same for Z & drop llvm-3.6
<jgrimm> that  sounds very reasonable
<caribou> support for 3.8 might come in before we release Z
<caribou> nothing else for me
<jgrimm> either is fine.
<jgrimm> thanks caribou
<jgrimm> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> Final (?) ISO testing for yakkety. All yakkety ISOs are back below the 703Mb limit! Have some final things to close on there with the fonts-android package re: bug 1626245
<ubottu> bug 1626245 in fonts-android (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fonts-android" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626245
<powersj> Need to complete yakkety ppc64el ISO testing. nacc: if you have your CLI history to speed this up, that would be great. I want to automate these architectures for the next release.
<powersj> ppc64el slave is back up and running. Not sure what happened, but slave was not in a happy state starting on Thursday. I will be updating it and other slaves today.
<powersj> Today, ppc64el setup for qemu/libvirt migration testing; rest of the week will be on cloud-init integration testing. Fin.
<jgrimm> excellent.
<jgrimm> any questions for powersj?
<jgrimm> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<jgrimm> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
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<rharper> o/
<jgrimm> anyone from kernel team around?
<jgrimm> moving on
<jgrimm> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
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<jgrimm> FOSDEM CFP deadline end of month
<jgrimm> anything else?
<jgrimm> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
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<jgrimm> cpaelzer has a DPDK summit soon.
<jgrimm> and of course openstack summit
<jgrimm> anything else?
<jgrimm> #topic Open Discussion
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<rharper> I saw rbasak poke about release notes; but wasn't sure if we were coordinating things with other teams, like foundation;
<rharper> I'm specifically thinking about netplan, systemd, cloud-init and other things that have been shifting aroudn
<rbasak> We should coordinate that in #ubuntu-release
<rharper> ok, but within our team did we maybe collect volunteers or have jgrimm volunteer us to write something up about our various items
<rharper> thinking any updates to the packages we do; dpdk, qemu/libvirt, uvt-kvm (\o/) ;
<cpaelzer> I already added a section for ovs-dpdk
<nacc> powersj: yeah, i'll ping you after the mtg?
<cpaelzer> dpdk changes don't qualify
<jgrimm> rharper, indeed, last couple times i've had someone come ask me for the package updates and anything else we think worth mentioning
<rharper> the wiki page looks rather sparse under Ubuntu Server, I suppose it shouldn't be that empty
<powersj> nacc, please
<rharper> ok
<cpaelzer> we can at least add the generic got updated see changelog for qemu/libvirt/dpdk
<cpaelzer> I'd volunteer writing dpdk/qemu/libvirt
<jgrimm> thanks cpaelzer
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: would you start a gdoc where we all put our stuff in?
<cpaelzer> and share with the team
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, yep.
<jgrimm> LXD will have an update, as well as, cloud-init
<cpaelzer> rharper: and smoser: can already start poking for the "shifting around things" today for the who-writes-what
<jgrimm> ok, anything else to discuss on this subject?
<rharper> I'm happy to write some stuff; I think we need a short list of topics worth mentioning
<rharper> jgrimm: I'm good
<rbasak> uvt-kvm> no actual updates for Yakkety, since it was post-FF. The PPA has some updates, and I'll upload them in Z.
<jgrimm> cool, tx
<jgrimm> #topic Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
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<rbasak> I thought we moved this topic back into Yakkety development? I have no comments, please continue self-serve! Any questions?
<rbasak> We are in final freeze now, so expect no uploads until Z I guess.
<rbasak> And it'll soon be merge time again, from next week.
<smoser> Z horay!
<jgrimm> yep
<jgrimm> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
 * nacc plans on an e-mail to the team for rebasing merges by EOW
<jgrimm> nacc, ack
<jgrimm> same time & channel.  next up powersj
<powersj> oooo
<powersj> something else to learn :)
<cpaelzer> it is just the check if you can copy and paste :-P
<jgrimm> heh. its not too painful.
<jgrimm> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 11 16:25:01 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-10-11-16.01.moin.txt
<jgrimm> thanks all
<rharper> jgrimm: thanks!
<cpaelzer> thanks jgrimm
<rbasak> Thank you for chairing jgrimm!
<cpaelzer> any bugwork discussion following or are we good in that regard?
<caribou> thanks!
<nacc> jgrimm: thanks!
<jgrimm> cpaelzer: all good, as rbasak mentioned mostly self-service until we have any issue or someone wants to bring up specifically
<jgrimm> wrt bugwork
<cpaelzer> ok, good - thanks
<cm-t> Bonjour \o/
<olive> _o/
<svij> hello :)
<cm-t> hello !
<svij> wxl: nhaines: ping
<nhaines> svij: I just got here  :P
<svij> yay :D
<wxl> svij: hey
<coolbhavi> hey
<svij> can anyone of you can lead the meeting?
<cm-t> you from the council you meant ?
<svij> yes
<cm-t> :)
<wxl> not me
<nhaines> I'm sleep deprived but I'll do it if no one else can.
<svij> or I can do that, never did that before, though.
<svij> #startmeeting loco-council meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 11 17:05:22 2016 UTC.  The chair is svij. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | loco-council meeting | Current topic:
<coolbhavi> m in midst of coding in parallel so not me also though
<svij> alright, I'll do it.
<coolbhavi> yay
<svij> Welcome to the first (I think) LoCo Council Meeting in this year
<svij> We have a two re-verifications on the agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<coolbhavi> svij, thanks for putting it in place first up :)
<svij> coolbhavi: :)
<wxl> +1
<svij> I already saw the french loco, is the catalonian loco also here?
<rafael_carreras> also here, yes
<svij> ah, hey rafael_carreras :)
<rafael_carreras> hello svij
<svij> do we have any other topics, wxl, coolbhavi, nhaines?
<nhaines> None in front of us this meeting.
<wxl> yeah. it might be good to go through the trello at some point and make sure everything's in order, but we can do that outside the scope of this meeting
<svij> right
<coolbhavi> svij, yes what do we do to rejig a loco with low activity was one question thats pondering me.. maybe ll take it up at the mailing list
<svij> coolbhavi: that's a good one, yes
<svij> ok, I think we can start with the french re-verification
<svij> #meetingtopic LoCo re-verification
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | LoCo re-verification Meeting | Current topic:
<svij> #topic ubuntu-fr re-verification
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | LoCo re-verification Meeting | Current topic: ubuntu-fr re-verification
<nhaines> #topic Ubuntu France re-verification
<svij> nhaines: too slow
<nhaines> There you go.  :)
<nhaines> svij: sleepdeprived.  :P
<coolbhavi> looks impressive to me with a detailed readmap :)
<svij> alright, who's here from our french friends? :)
<cm-t> hi, I am Rudy, I will our lecturer
<coolbhavi> yes had a curious thing to ask
<svij> here is their reverification application: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam/ReVerificationApplication
<cm-t> olive and karum and amgie are still here if I need help :)
<svij> ok, it's a huge one, I'll need a couple of minutes to go through it :)
<cm-t> ah :)  take your time, I can take question in the while if you wish
<coolbhavi> cm-t, how are renting offices and a full time employee recruit planned?
<coolbhavi> seeing it for the first time though :)
<wxl> mailing list*S*??? wow
<cm-t> coolbhavi: so we have an online shop ( https://enventelibre.org/fr/41-ubuntu-fr ) + help from the governement. It's a 20k project, it's a little thing to handle (we got already that n the bag):')
<svij> help from the government? How are they helping?
<coolbhavi> exactly
<coolbhavi> seems interesting
<cm-t> that kind of job is a tipical need for association, and there are plenty of association. It's a way for the governement to "create" job. but most of the governement help is for the 1st year.
<nhaines> cm-t: the LoCo is clearly very active, and continues to be successful year after year.  What is your favorite event or advocacy focus over the last two years?
<svij> the french community not "very active", they're rather "very very very active" :)
<wxl> indeed
<wxl> i'm blown away
<coolbhavi> cm-t, +1 here for job creation but for a full time resource on repeatative tasks have you thought about automating processes if possible
<svij> I think it's a great idea to go to music festivals and promote Ubuntu to non IT people
<wxl> yeah that's super cool
<coolbhavi> +1 very impressive application
<svij> I think the french one is the most active one, good job!
<cm-t> For 10 years we do our french UbuCon "Ubuntu Party", but those years we are proud of our webcafÃ© ( http://webcafe-ubuntu.org/ ). It's an booth we put in small or big event (like the biggest french music festival "Les Vieilles Charrues"). There we can meet the people who will dsicover the free software in a funny way (we have circle of friend and tu tattoos!)
<cm-t> nhaines: â
<wxl> that is crazy!!!!!!!
<coolbhavi> linux in entertainment.. wow :)
<wxl> well, technically it's nothing new
<wxl> for example it's prevalent in the movie industry
<nhaines> cm-t: ah yes, I remember hearing about the Ubuntu webcafÃ©.  Good choice.  :)
<wxl> not so in music, tho
<cm-t> we have a nice video to explain the awesomeness of th webcafÃ© http://webcafe-ubuntu.org/webcafe/le-webcafe-ubuntu-aux-vieilles-charrues-2016-la-video/
<coolbhavi> yes but the idea is pretty cool
<wxl> cm-t: is ubuntu-fr's blog syndicated through planet ubuntu? this is stuff EVERYONE should see
<svij> the only complain from me is, that le ubuntu podcast is not releasing new episodes regularly ;)
<cm-t> there we meet people who try to pronounce "yubantu", and get back with new knoweldge of what is an OS, or freesoftware
<cm-t> svij: we are now releasing weekly episode :D
<svij> cm-t: great. Need to refresh my french skills though :D
<nhaines> cm-t: are there any problems you foresee while achieving your roadmap?  Or do you think you have all the resources to proceed?
<cm-t> svij: live episodes, and we will release the interview few after few :)
<svij> also: How do you motivate your team or other contributors to contribute? I feel like the overall contribution in locos gets lower every year (atleast thats whats happening in germany)
<wxl> svij: i think that's less true with non-english speaking countries, as translation and general localization tends to be a thing
<cm-t> nhaines: so We beleive having that job will help us a lot, but we might need help to accomplish the goal of the event we want to organize in 2017 (we want to host next UbuCon Europe)
<coolbhavi> wxl, +1
<svij> wxl: oh yeah
<cm-t> we already started the work for the ubucon Europe 2017 (1 full time month of work)
<nhaines> cm-t: I'm sure you'll find support for UbuCon Europe from other LoCos as well.  :)
<cm-t> we visited different place, but We still have an idea of the target
<cm-t> nhaines: good to hear :)
<svij> great!
<svij> any other questions for the french community? Otherwise I would start the voting.
<nhaines> O
<coolbhavi> nopes
<nhaines> I'm read to vote.
<cm-t> another detail:  We seel the Ubuntu LTS DVD as a non profit sell https://enventelibre.org/fr/ubuntu-fr/84-dvd-ubuntu-1604-lts.html
<wxl> i'm ready
<cm-t> we think it's our mission to promote our project :)
<cm-t> sell*
<svij> #vote re-verification ubuntu-fr
<meetingology> Please vote on: re-verification ubuntu-fr
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<coolbhavi> cm-t, I think you guys are a role model LoCo
<svij> #voters coolbhavi wxl nhaines svij
<meetingology> Current voters: coolbhavi nhaines svij wxl
<coolbhavi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coolbhavi
<svij> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from svij
<wxl> +1 well, really, +1943671298123759328563914869841623. amazing work!!!!!
<meetingology> +1 well, really, +1943671298123759328563914869841623. amazing work!!!!! received from wxl
<svij> :D
<wxl> this is probably the most impressive application i've ever seen
<cm-t> coolbhavi: thank !
<nhaines> +1, this was an amazingly well put together application, and I think that reflects all of your events as well.  Thank you.
<meetingology> +1, this was an amazingly well put together application, and I think that reflects all of your events as well.  Thank you. received from nhaines
<svij> that's it
<svij> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: re-verification ubuntu-fr
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cm-t> <3
<svij> congrats, cm-t and friends :)
<cm-t> thank you dear LoCo council !
<quesh> <3
<coolbhavi> love you guys cm-t congrats :)
<wxl> thank YOU cm-t for making ubuntu better!
<svij> see you next month at ubucon europe :)
<rafael_carreras> congrats, mes voisins, vous Ãªtes les meilleurs!
<nhaines> Thanks for all your hard work.  You're definiltely a model LoCo for Europe.  And for everyone, really.  An inspiration.  :)
<cm-t> thank you!
<cm-t> oh yes, see you at UbuCon Europe !!
<wxl> +1 nhaines
<wxl> now i REALLY wish i could go to ubucon-eu
<svij> nhaines and I will represent the LoCo COuncil there ;)
<svij> alright, next up: catalan
<olive> thx !
<rafael_carreras> here :)
<cm-t> wxl: next year maybe ? ^^
<wxl> cm-t: absolutely!
<svij> #topic re-verification ubuntu catalan
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | LoCo re-verification Meeting | Current topic: re-verification ubuntu catalan
<wxl> cm-t: especially if it's in france ;)
<svij> rafael_carreras from the catalan community is here, anyone else? :)
<svij> here's their reverification application: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CatalanTeam/ReVerificationApplication2016
<rafael_carreras> yes, there is josepgallart also
<svij> I'll need some minutes to go through the application
<rafael_carreras> ok, take your time
<coolbhavi> rafael_carreras, nice application but in the past as I remember there were few issues in the spanish side of the team .. how did you guys overcome those?
<nhaines> One issue I had with the application is that there is an impressive list of events, but no real links to wiki pages or articles or blog posts that describe those events.
<rafael_carreras> we are separate teams, so there are no issues
<rafael_carreras> in fact ther were never issues with them, only with the LoCo Council :-)
<nhaines> For instance, all the launch parties link to the release wiki pages.  (festa Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, for instance, links to the XenialXeres page and not a writeup of the event.)
<coolbhavi> heh ok :)
<svij> that's also the issue which I have now, nhaines
<rafael_carreras> that's right, I cound try to find some summaries
<rafael_carreras> but I don't think there are any for the last one
<nhaines> I had to use the monthly team reports to sort of fill in the gaps.
<svij> you can also just say it here for now. What were self-organized events, what were events where you were participating? And how many attended?
<nhaines> Blog posts are important!  They let others know what you've done, how things went, and can inspire new LoCo members and other groups to be more active or to attend an event in the future.  :)
<rafael_carreras> yes, i know, nhaines
<wxl> it's interesting that there are links, but many go nowhere
<svij> blog posts with photos of all the people :)
<wxl> e.g. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CatalanTeam/ReVerificationApplication2016/UbuntuGlobalJam022015
<rafael_carreras> usually, we have about 50 people on each event
<rafael_carreras> there are self-organised events
<nhaines> wxl: I think most of those dead links are just moinwiki's camelCase autolinking and not intentional links.
<wxl> nhaines: i would normally think so, but that's not the case
<rafael_carreras> last one was not very attended, but next one is more organised and we think it will be massive
<nhaines> wxl: not your example obviously but I got that sense in general.
<nhaines> rafael_carreras: that's the install party in Sant Andreu?
<nhaines> No, the xerrameca party in Ripoll.
<wxl> rafael_carreras: is the mailing list new? i only see archives in this month
<rafael_carreras> yes, we migrated the list
<wxl> good job :)
<svij> i see it starting from may: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-cat/
<rafael_carreras> we had two of them and migrated to one in ubuntu servers
<rafael_carreras> want the previuos links to the other lists?
<nhaines> Yes please.  :)  (And feel free to add it to your application, just for future reference.)
<wxl> rafael_carreras: sure! might want to link them off the mailman info so that others can see those
<nhaines> rafael_carreras: how do you see the LoCo changing in the next year?
<coolbhavi> rafael_carreras, last time when reverification came there were few issues taken up right to the CC if I remember in october 2014.. Are all fine now? :)
<wxl> rafael_carreras: ajuda.ubuntu.cat goes to http://planeta.ubuntu.cat/ which seems to be blank? i know it's not done but i guess that's a bit confusing.
<svij> http://www.ubuntu.cat/planet was linked somewhere else
<rafael_carreras> ancient mailing list: http://llistes.cpl.upc.edu/pipermail/ubuntucat-info/
<wxl> rafael_carreras: nice website :)
<rafael_carreras> nhaines: we are seeing a bit more activity and new mebers are approaching
<rafael_carreras> so we see a bright future
<wxl> rafael_carreras: that list is still live tho? last message from september?
<coolbhavi> +1 wxl
<rafael_carreras> coolbhavi: yes, ther is all fine now, thanks :)
<wxl> oh nevermind what i said about ajuda. too many tabs. like svij it's the planet that goes nowhere
<nhaines> Yes, might want to reach out to the person who postedin September and point him to the new list.  :)
<svij> and close the old list ;)
<coolbhavi> good progress from that position though rafael_carreras
<wxl> i love those maps!
<svij> maps?
<rafael_carreras> wxl: thanks, we'll see that with the web hackers
<rafael_carreras> wxl: no, that list is not in use, we migrated to the ubuntu server one
<wxl> nice art :) https://ca.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Guia_Ubuntu/%C3%8Dndex_16.04_LTS
<rafael_carreras> svij: a message was sent to the university in wich there is the server, but they did not erase the list
<svij> rafael_carreras: ah okay :)
<nhaines> rafael_carreras: maybe ask again, but of course that's not your fault.  :)
<svij> yup
<nhaines> Well, I'm certainly ready to vote.
<svij> me too
<coolbhavi> same here
<wxl> me, too
<svij> #vote re-verification ubuntu-cat
<meetingology> Please vote on: re-verification ubuntu-cat
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<svij> #voters coolbhavi wxl nhaines svij
<meetingology> Current voters: coolbhavi nhaines svij wxl
<nhaines> I hope to see more blog posts in the future, which will improve the application and increase participation as well.  But...
<wxl> +1 solid effort. keep up the good work as the Catalan community needs you!! work on documenting more, though, for future applications, not to mention for the sake of the larger community, other LoCos
<meetingology> +1 solid effort. keep up the good work as the Catalan community needs you!! work on documenting more, though, for future applications, not to mention for the sake of the larger community, other LoCos received from wxl
<nhaines> +1, the LoCo is active and I hope it continues to grow.  :)
<meetingology> +1, the LoCo is active and I hope it continues to grow.  :) received from nhaines
<coolbhavi> +1 considering the progress from their oct 2014 situation .. impressive to say the least :)
<meetingology> +1 considering the progress from their oct 2014 situation .. impressive to say the least :) received from coolbhavi
<svij> +1 from me, I agree on nhaines and wxl points.
<meetingology> +1 from me, I agree on nhaines and wxl points. received from svij
<svij> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: re-verification ubuntu-cat
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<svij> congrats rafael_carreras and ubuntu-cat :)
<rafael_carreras> thanks a lot!
<svij> I'm still searching for cats on ubuntu.cat :D
<rafael_carreras> hehe
<wxl> hahahah yes svij !!!
<svij> (ok, baaad joke, I know)
<wxl> MORE CATS
<coolbhavi> congrats rafael_carreras :)
<rafael_carreras> thanks
<svij> alright that's it for the re-verifications
<svij> if anyone wants to speak about anything else, if not, we're done for today :)
<coolbhavi> I am fine and done :)
<wxl> ditto
<coolbhavi> thanks svij again for putting things in place :)
<wxl> yes svij you are the man!
<nhaines> svij: thanks for chairing the meeting tonight!  You were great!
<svij> thanks! :)
<svij> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 11 17:55:25 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-10-11-17.05.moin.txt
<wxl> maybe a blog post sharing some of the highlights of these locos might be good?
<svij> I've also extended both LoCos verification-status for two years starting today.
<svij> wxl: yeah, thought the same. Any volunteers? ;)
<coolbhavi> wxl, will do
<wxl> thx coolbhavi
<svij> coolbhavi: thanks :)
<wxl> if you need editing help, post up a link to the draft
<coolbhavi> sure by end of tomorrow ll drop a mail
<svij> great :)
<wxl> awesome
<nhaines> Thanks, coolbhavi.
<wxl> dumb question but we are syndicated on the planet, right?
<svij> wxl: yes
<wxl> great
<svij> do I need to post/paste meetingminutes somewhere?
<wxl> i think there's a place for that
<coolbhavi> finally seems good to be back again and contributing :) missed the exitement :D
<svij> oh I found it, if the wiki loadsâ¦
<wxl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Minutes
<svij> wow now meetinglogs in 2015?
<wxl> or 2016
<wxl> :(
<svij> but we're alive again :)
<wxl> there is the general problem that there's not clear documentation for new members
<wxl> mind you, this tends to be a problem for other councils as well
<svij> done: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Minutes/20161011
<wxl> this documentation along with other relevant items needs to be included in the topic of our channel
<wxl> speaking of said channel, let's move over there folks
<nhaines> Yup.  Thanks, everyone!
<coolbhavi> does anyone have chanop status to do that?
<svij> the internal one?
<nhaines> coolbhavi: you should be able to use chanserv.  :)
<coolbhavi> ok thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-10-13
<chiluk> slangasek is there a meeting today?
<chiluk> I will assume no.. happy release day everybody.
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-10-10
<slashd> o/
<andreas> o/
<rbasak> o/
<smb> Â½o/
<nacc> o/
<nacc> sorry about that!
<nacc> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 10 16:08:15 2017 UTC.  The chair is nacc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<nacc> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<nacc> rbasak: smoser: did y9ou get to yours?
<rbasak> No, sorry. Please carry again.
<nacc> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<nacc> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<smoser> nacc, no. sorry.
<nacc> #action rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<smoser> :-(
<nacc> rbasak: smoser: np, thanks
<nacc> #action nacc to consider http2 info in artful release notes (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to consider http2 info in artful release notes (carried over)
<nacc> #action smoser to add a cloud init (and if there is something curtin) release notes entry for artful (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser to add a cloud init (and if there is something curtin) release notes entry for artful (carried over)
<nacc> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<nacc> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<nacc> #subtopic Current Work
<nacc> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
<nacc> anything to highlight?
<nacc> #subtopic Release Bugs
<smoser> bug 1722566 will have an upload today for a fix
<ubottu> bug 1722566 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "ci-info: <cloudinit.simpletable.SimpleTable object at 0x7fa98d222748>" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1722566
<nacc> smoser: great, thanks
<nacc> #info bug 1722566 will have an upload today for a fix
<nacc> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<andreas> I've been working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lighttpd/+bug/1707312
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1707312 in lighttpd (Ubuntu) "reload does not shut down lighttpd gracefully" [Medium,In progress]
<andreas> and I think the fix will introduce a change in behavior
<andreas> so I'm not sure it's sru worthy
<nacc> #info andreas is working on 1707312, for which the fix might be a behavior change, which might not be SRU-able
<andreas> the change is that it changes any action involving "stop" into a graceful-stop, meaning that any stop could take up to 60s (that's the timeout)
<andreas> I've prepared test packages for the reporter to try, but in parallel I'm thinking about declaring it a wontfix
<nacc> andreas: does it need fixing in artful?
<andreas> yes
<andreas> well
<andreas> sort of
<andreas> I can't elaborate now
<andreas> a new upstream will make this easier, but it's not released yet
<nacc> ok
<nacc> shall we move on?
<nacc> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
<slashd> Everything is under control for us this week. Here's the list of things we are currently working on : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/25714583/
<nacc> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<nacc> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<nacc> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<nacc> slashd: thanks!
<slashd> thanks nacc
<nacc> #info everything under control for SRU/Pending. List of things currently being worked on is at: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/25714583/
<nacc> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> oh boy lost track of time
<nacc> powersj: np
<powersj> last week I worked on cloud-init integration tests and making small modifications that we agreed to during the rally
<powersj> Getting all test cases setup with KVM working, however having discussions about the use of /tmp
<powersj> This week continuing that work and starting work on aws/gce backend
<powersj> (hopefully)
<powersj> will probably also need to look at ISO results
<powersj> and make sure we are still green for release
<powersj> questions?
<nacc> #info QA update: last week cloud-init integration tests and rally feedback; getting all tests working with KVM (with discussions ongoing on use of /tmp)
<nacc> #info QA update: this week: continuing the same; starting on aws/gce backend; looking at ISO results (for artful release)
<nacc> powersj: thanks!
<powersj> nacc: thx
<nacc> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<nacc> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Not much to report. 4.13.0-12.13 should be the artful release kernel, pending no last minute issues. If there are any issues found, make sure to ping the kernel team directly and not rely on us noticing bugs.
<nacc> #info 4.13.0-12.13 should be the artful release kernel; if any issues are found, ping the kernel team directly
<nacc> smoser: thanks!
<nacc> smb: rather
<nacc> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<nacc> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<andreas> I have nothing new
<nacc> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<nacc> nothing new there
<nacc> #topic askubuntu.com questions (teward) - Better communication with community.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: askubuntu.com questions (teward) - Better communication with community.
<nacc> teward: around?
<nacc> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
 * nacc wonders if teward's entry should be removed from the agenda
<andreas> do you remember why it's about hikm?
<andreas> him*
<nacc> andreas: no
<rbasak> He's an askubuntu.com moderator
<rbasak> And active in ~ubuntu-server
<rbasak> But I haven't seen him around recently. Perhaps he's busy with other things right now.
<nacc> rbasak: right, but the agenda entry doesn't idicate that, or why that needs to be on the weekly meetinng
<rbasak> I think someone suggested that we could discuss the proposal with him at the meeting.
<rbasak> (possibly me)
<nacc> rbasak: what proposal?
<rbasak> I think I've summarised it in a previous ping to him in this meeting. One moment, I'll find that.
<rbasak> Here we are
<rbasak> https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-09-26-16.02.log.html
<rbasak> 16:16
<rbasak> 16:16 <rharper> #topic askubuntu.com questions (teward) - Better communication with community.
<rbasak> 16:17 <rbasak> teward: if you're around, we were wondering about expanding bug triage to watching relevant askubuntu.com questions.
<rbasak> 16:17 <rbasak> We were thinking about watching a tag, and it would be nice if moderators and other editors knew that it could be used to get our attention by adding the tag.
<nacc> #action nacc to add clarification to agenda entry for AU topic
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to add clarification to agenda entry for AU topic
<rbasak> 16:18 <rbasak> Thought about communicating with relevant askubuntu.com people early to discuss this idea, and your name came up.
<rbasak> 16:18 <rbasak> If you're not about, we can defer to a future meeting.
<rbasak> 16:18 <rharper> #info discussion about expanding bug triage for ubuntu-server by watching relevant askubuntu.com questions, deferring to another irc meeting
<rbasak> 16:19 <rharper> #action re-raise askubuntu.com questions (teward) - Better communication with community discussion
<rbasak> 16:19 * meetingology re-raise askubuntu.com questions (teward) - Better communication with community discussion
<rbasak> Thanks nacc
<nacc> AOB?
<nacc> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<nacc> dpb is up next, 2017-10-17 at 1600 UTC
<nacc> #info dpb is up next, 2017-10-17 at 1600 UTC
<nacc> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 10 16:29:37 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-10-10-16.08.moin.txt
<nacc> thanks everyone and sorry again for being late
<andreas> thanks nacc
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-10-12
<rcj> o/
<rbalint> o/
<sil2100> o/
<philroche> \o
<cyphermox> o/
<bdmurray> philroche: Are you set up to run the meeting?
<philroche> bdmurray: 2 secs
<philroche> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct 12 15:05:32 2017 UTC.  The chair is philroche. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<philroche> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<philroche> echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther)
<philroche> philroche sil2100 infinity fginther tdaitx xnox Odd_Bloke rbalint cyphermox slangasek tribaal doko bdmurray rcj mwhudson
<philroche> * Cloud images build system vanguard
<philroche> * Cloud images build system automated promotion development
<philroche> * Cloud images manual testing
<philroche> (done)
<sil2100> - Preparations to the 17.10 release, queue reviews, proposed tracking, attempts
<philroche> sil2100:
<sil2100> of coordination
<sil2100> - Some SRU reviews
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Work on ubuntu-image classic full code-coverage, prepared PR
<sil2100>   * Synced up with Gary on ubuntu-image progress
<sil2100> (done)
<fginther> * Cloud images build system vanguard
<fginther> * Continued library development to facilitate automated publication
<fginther> (done)
<bdmurray> tdaitx: are you about?
<tdaitx> * +1 maint
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 8 & 9 security update
<tdaitx> (done)
<cyphermox> tdaitx: sponsored you grub2 upload
<cyphermox> (now I need a grub2-signed)
<tdaitx> cyphermox, tks ;-)
<bdmurray> xnox: your turn
<xnox> Tested and found missing config for upgrading zfcpdump kernels
<xnox> Reported/tested netcfg-static regression with netplan, thanks cyphermox for fixing
<xnox> Developed shutdown solution for clean shutdowns of Intel Matrix and DFF raid arrays - for both xenial and artful
<xnox> Developed NTPd integration with networked, to pick up NTP servers discovered by networkd DHCP client
<xnox> Debugged networkd failing to renew/rebind DHCP leases with a change of an IP address
<xnox> Release week ahead...
<rbalint> * unattended-upgrades 0.98ubuntu1 upload fixing hibernation handling, now ready for Artful's release! :-)
<rbalint> * livecd-rootfs updates, most related to image minimization
<rbalint> * Hyper-V image related image fixed
<rbalint> (done)
<rbalint> rbalint@chy
<bdmurray> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> monday off due to Thanksgiving (CA)
<cyphermox> artful:
<cyphermox> - netcfg dns/search fixes (bug LP: #1721798)
<cyphermox> - netplan 0.30 ('optional' syntax)
<cyphermox> - translations update / merges for ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1721798 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Artful) "netcfg does not setup search domains and nameservers via netplan" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1721798
<cyphermox> - ubiquity update
<cyphermox> xenial:
<cyphermox> - netplan SRU validation
<cyphermox> other stuff:
<cyphermox> - test jenkins setup for minimization work
<cyphermox> - image minimization testing
<cyphermox> (done)
<bdmurray> Tribaal:
<Tribaal> * Vacation (LegoLand! \o/)
<Tribaal> * Kick the tires on 17.10 beta images for partners to make sure they are ready once we go GA.
<Tribaal> (done)
<philroche> doko: - Fixing around 15-20 build failures
<philroche> doko: - Start packaging GCC-8
<philroche> doko: - Some archive admin work
<philroche> doko: - Fight with LocutusOfBorg over libjpeg-turbo
<philroche> doko: (done)
<rcj> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> monday off due to Thanksgiving (CA)
<bdmurray> reported initramfs bug LP: #1721655
<bdmurray> uploaded update-manager which mentions XZ compression for /boot
<bdmurray> v-failed the SRU for LP: #1515513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1721655 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "a mistype of the kernel version can do you in" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1721655
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1515513 in dkms (Ubuntu) "/boot/initrd.img-*.old-dkms files left behind" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1515513
<bdmurray> Really fixed LP: #1515513 sent patch upstream
<bdmurray> tested LP: #1720187 and using ForcedObsoletes
<bdmurray> Reported u-r-u bug about bad free space instructions LP: #1721882
<bdmurray> irc discussion with apw regarding update-manager upload for Artful
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1720187 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "17.10 upgrade should mark ubuntu-gnome-desktop for removal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1720187
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1721882 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Zesty) "Generic instructions for dealing with full partitions don't help much" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1721882
<bdmurray> SRU verification of dkms old files bug LP: #1515513
<bdmurray> uploaded X and Z fixes for LP: #1477455, LP: #1717360
<bdmurray> fixed apport bug LP: #1722801 re not starting
<bdmurray> investigation into getting update-manager to remove kernels
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1477455 in update-manager (Ubuntu Zesty) "Incorrect instructions leave automatic updates blocked when /boot is full" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477455
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1717360 in update-manager (Ubuntu Zesty) "test_update_origin.py test failure" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1717360
<bdmurray> â done
<rcj> rcj:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1722801 in apport (Ubuntu Artful) "apport isn't started on new installs" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1722801
<rcj> * vacation
<rcj> * cloud-image build system onboarding
<rcj> * automated promotion development/testing
<rcj> * openstack public cloud evaluation
<rcj> â
<xnox> FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
<bdmurray> rbalint: I guess bug 1458204 isn't really about u-u
<ubottu> bug 1458204 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Artful) "removing kernels should not require a restart afterward" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1458204
<bdmurray> Does bug 1721798 require additional work?
<ubottu> bug 1721798 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Artful) "netcfg does not setup search domains and nameservers via netplan" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1721798
<bdmurray> cyphermox: ^^
<cyphermox> bdmurray: I pinged infinity earlier to make sure we wouldn't fight over doing the necessary d-i update
<bdmurray> cyphermox: okay
<bdmurray> philroche: that's it for bugs
<cyphermox> but yes, it does require rebuilding d-i, I just prefer to bundle d-i uploads to fix more than one thing if possible
<philroche> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<rbalint> bdmurray: LP: #1458204 needs an u-u update, too, as i read
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1458204 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Artful) "removing kernels should not require a restart afterward" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1458204
<bdmurray> rbalint: ah, okay
<rbalint> bdmurray: in /etc/kernel/postinst.d/unattended-upgrades
<philroche> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct 12 15:24:10 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-10-12-15.05.moin.txt
<sil2100> o/
<LocutusOfBorg> lol I don't get what the "fighting with doko is about", I didn't fight with anybody :)
<xnox> just a troll =)
<LocutusOfBorg> :-)
 * LocutusOfBorg did fight the whole day with u-boot strange failures, can't get sarcasm anymore :p
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-10-08
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> Sorry for missing the meeting
<teward> sil2100: what meeting :P
<sil2100> My calendar mentioned a DMB meeting starting 25 minutes ago!
<teward> ah
<teward> there was no meeting, at least not in this room, nor was there one in #u-meeting-2
<teward> (I have been lurking here since 12:30PM UTC-4 with no activity but joins/parts in here
<teward> so...)
<sil2100> I guess we didn't have anyone on the agenda anyway ;)
<teward> :P
<sil2100> teward: thanks for the info then!
<teward> sil2100: yep.  *returns to lurking IRC and beating the heck out of Cisco ASA firewalls*
<olive> LoCoCouncil. "next meeting is scheduled for Monday, 8th October 2018 20:00 UTC and will be held in #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net"
<olive> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<gsilvapt_> yellow!
<nhaines> _o/
<gsilvapt_> I'm on dish washing duties around the house but I'm here for the meeting. Ready when you are
<Letozaf_> o/
<nhaines> Okay, enough time rallying the troops.  Time to get things started!  :)
<nhaines> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct  8 20:11:53 2018 UTC.  The chair is nhaines. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<nhaines> Welcome to the Ubuntu LoCo Council meeting!  Our agenda today is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<nhaines> First up is the re-verification for the Italian Ubuntu LoCo Team.
<nhaines> Their application is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianTeam/ReApprovalApplication2018
<nhaines> Are any representatives from the Italian team present?
<nhaines> Okay, because this is the second meeting with no representative from the team and we do not have a quorum for this agenda item (due to an abstention!), we will keep the re-verification bug open and try to get this resolved within the next week.
<nhaines> The next item on our agenda is the re-verification for the French-speaking Ubuntu LoCo Team.  Their application is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrenchTeam/ReVerificationApplication2018
<gsilvapt_>  Before that, what should we say to them in the ML? We've been receiving some emails to request us to urge and solve this at
<gsilvapt_> s/at/matter
<gsilvapt_> I feel for them but I know our side of the story. The point being that I am not seeing with good appreciation their request and constant reminders their membership is terminating
<nhaines> I'm pretty sure I mentioned to him that I extended the provisional verification to past this meeting date, but I'll email him and give him an update of what we're doing.  (And kick the LCC members into voting on the bug!)  :)
<gsilvapt_> And if there's anything we can do about that
<gsilvapt_> LCC?
<nhaines> That's us!  (The LoCo Community Council)
<nhaines> I explained to him that the LoCo cannot lose status during re-verification and the Launchpad membership will not affect any requests to Canonical while we're working on their status.
<nhaines> I'll explain it to him again, but pushing the date out another week will just increase the number of email warnings they get about expiration, and they won't be any more accurate than the one's they're already getting.
<nhaines> But yes, I'll send an email after the meeting.
<gsilvapt_> Ok, thank you
<gsilvapt_> Regarding the next item, the French LoCo, I have my vote ready but I'm not sure if we can vote since we have no quorum tonight :)
<nhaines> I'll also note here for the record that we did get the additional information from them, just via email in a couple threads, which slowed things down a little.  They've been cooperative and we appreciate that.  Just infrastructural delays.  :)
<gsilvapt_> Oh wait, Carla will vote now, that's 3 votes, I guess
<nhaines> Yes.  :)
<Letozaf_> yes I'm ready :)
<nhaines> So the French LoCo has been pretty active.  I know they had a very strong presence at UbuCon Europe and are actively championing the Ubuntu Federation.  (I think it was their idea.)
<Letozaf_> there is no doubt they are very active
<nhaines> Lots of events planned, and they have very high membership and a lot of activities.  I think they remain along with Germany some of the best examples of what LoCo teams can achieve.
<nhaines> They even got three wallpapers into Ubuntu 18.10 via the Ubuntu Free Culture Showcase.  :)
<nhaines> (Technically one was from a non-member, but it was a photo of their event, ha.)
<gsilvapt_> Agree.
<nhaines> So I guess I'm ready to start the vote.
<Letozaf_> me too
<gsilvapt_> Go for it
<nhaines> #vote Re-verification for Ubuntu France LoCo Team
<meetingology> Please vote on: Re-verification for Ubuntu France LoCo Team
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<gsilvapt_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from gsilvapt_
<Letozaf_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Letozaf_
<nhaines> +1 amazing work
<meetingology> +1 amazing work received from nhaines
<nhaines> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Re-verification for Ubuntu France LoCo Team
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<gsilvapt_> Abstentions should actually be 2 :P
<nhaines> They didn't abstain, they're just absent.  :P
<gsilvapt_> Isn't it the same? :P
<nhaines> Nope, abstention means "I can vote, but I will not vote for or against."
<nhaines> It's slightly different.  :)
<nhaines> Okay, so by unanimous vote, Ubuntu France is re-verified for another 2 years.  Great job, ubuntu-fr!  :)
<gsilvapt_> Well, regarding the previous action items: First, we should've started from there. Secondly, specifically about the wiki page for re-verification, I found no improvements to propose. It's just what it is. A big chunk of information that whoever is interested has to read.
<nhaines> You're refering to the Italian Team?
<gsilvapt_> We are limited to the page and I guess we can't do much more about it. Regardless, everything the Council (current and future groups) and any LoCo team need to know is just here
<gsilvapt_> s/here/there
<nhaines> I would have preferred it if the application were updated, but we invited them to answer our questions via private Launchpad bug, and they answered us privately (although via email instead).
<nhaines> So we take the sum of the application and the new information and decide that way.
<gsilvapt_> No. Last meeting I asked what we could do to simplify/improve the re-verification guidelines. We set an action item for me to investigate and use the italian case to test what could be improved.
<nhaines> Ah!
<gsilvapt_> And we also set a few other items, AFAIK. And I see other meetings, namely the Ubuntu CC's start with those action items to discuss what was accomplish and what wasn't
<gsilvapt_> Perhaps we should start with those in a next time
<nhaines> Yes, but those items did not make it to the meeting agenda.
<gsilvapt_> Hum, okay then. But was it intentional or a mistake?
<nhaines> Surely an oversight.
<nhaines> Other than the re-verification page that gives information about the process, were there other improvements that you recommend?
<gsilvapt_> It's fine. Just wondering whether we wanted or not to discuss any of those. Regardless, I wanted to let you know I didn't propose any changes not because I haven't looked at it but because I feel there's pretty much nothing that can be done to improve it
<gsilvapt_> No, the re-verification page was the only one under research because I always feel lost when I need to move applications to but reports. But I guess we get the hang of it with practice :)
<nhaines> I'm always happy to discuss those things.  The meetings are a good place to publically summarize any conversations we have via mailing list or Telegram anyhow.
<gsilvapt_> Agree
<nhaines> gsilvapt_: you're doing well.  We're just seeing a little bit of miscommunication because the LoCo teams only do this every 2 years so sometimes they forget to ping others.  :)
<nhaines> But we can streamline that, too.
<nhaines> Thanks for reviewing the re-verification page.  It's important to have fresh eyes on things from time to time.
<gsilvapt_> Thanks. It's fine. I thought I could do something about it but I admit that it is already a good job! It is what it is :)
<nhaines> When you read it often enough, mistakes become invisible!
<gsilvapt_> He he, true!
<nhaines> That means we can work on improving things in different ways.  :)
<nhaines> Okay, is there any other business for tonight?
<gsilvapt_> I don't have anything :)
<Letozaf_> nope
<nhaines> Okay then, that's it for October.  Happy Ubuntu 18.10 to everybody next week!  :)
<nhaines> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct  8 20:39:37 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-10-08-20.11.moin.txt
<Letozaf_> good night!
<Letozaf_> o/
<gsilvapt_> See you! Thanks for coming!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-10-09
<mapreri> kyrofa, gsilvapt: could you please see about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-locoteams/+bug/1792821 - I'd rather not expire again...
<ubottu> Error: launchpad bug 1792821 not found
 * cpaelzer is lighting the camp fire to gather some MIR people
<jamespage> o/
<cyphermox> hey there
<cpaelzer> hiho
<cyphermox> we'll likely have didrocks AFK for the meeting
<cyphermox> I'm there but a bit busy reviewing percona.
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: I was away last week so I can't contribute too much, which in turn means I'd volunteer to chair today
<cpaelzer> lets give 2 mins more for people to show up
<cyphermox> doko is out too
<cyphermox> tbh, there isn't much of a change from last week's status, so we can make this a quick meeting if you want
<cpaelzer> ack
<cyphermox> (but I mean, don't wait up for more people)
<cpaelzer> let us just roll through the states
<cpaelzer> are you ok with me pasting the usual links cyphermox?
<cyphermox> yup
<cpaelzer> anyone else that we want to have a ping before the log
<cpaelzer> jdstrand: ping
<cpaelzer> I think you covered the others already cyphermox
<cpaelzer> so lets start
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  9 13:05:56 2018 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer> ACTION: cyphermox to add bug list URLs to wiki
<cpaelzer> that is the only old one I found from two weeks ago without being mentined later
<cyphermox> done ;)
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> that's it on old actions
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mir/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE
<cpaelzer> charming how it doesn't carry the full link
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir&field.structural_subscriber=&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.
<cpaelzer> has_no_package.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on&search=Search
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir&field.structural_subscriber=&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&
<cpaelzer> field.has_no_package.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on&search=Search
<cpaelzer> none of these is better
<cyphermox> bah
<cpaelzer> should we add shortlinks to make this easier?
<cyphermox> probably yes ;)
<cpaelzer> do we have a perferred ubuntu shortlink service?
<cyphermox> for oe, I can't take such long lists without copy-pasting in multiple steps
<cpaelzer> or can I pick whatever I want?
<cyphermox> pick whichever you want
<cpaelzer> #action: cpaelzer to add shortlinks for our meeting to be used in the commands to share links in the meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: : cpaelzer to add shortlinks for our meeting to be used in the commands to share links in the meeting
<cpaelzer> back to the topic
<cpaelzer> we have one
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/neutron-dynamic-routing/+bug/1746759
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1746759 in neutron-dynamic-routing (Ubuntu) "[MIR] neutron-dynamic-routing" [Medium,New]
<cpaelzer> which qualifies for the filter
<cpaelzer> we set it back to new last meeting
<cpaelzer> jamespage: anything happened (or supposed to happen) since then?
<cpaelzer> jamespage: was here before we started
<cpaelzer> I think we have to consider this bug as if it would be new
 * jdstrand is here
<cpaelzer> hi
<jamespage> sorry for some reason my alerts are non-functional
<jdstrand> hey
 * jamespage checks
<jamespage> last comment is correct; package does run unit tests for py2/p3 as part of package build
<cpaelzer> so is this to be re-queued for a MIR Team check then?
<jamespage> yp
<cpaelzer> I can't derive from doko's comment back then if it was the only bad feedback of a full review
<cpaelzer> or just the first thing he saw
<cpaelzer> for the chance of the latter and wanting to avoid a re-review in case he has looked at mcuh more already I'd suggest assignign it to doko if there are no objections
<jamespage> I think that's OK
 * cpaelzer is looking to cyphermox as the senior MIR member
<cyphermox> sure
<cpaelzer> jamespage: can we bump the milestone from 18.04 to something real?
<cpaelzer> I completed the update on the bug to assign to doko
<jamespage> I shoved it to later; if doko gets to it for 18.10 that's awesome but it could go early next cycle as well
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> lets go on with the agenda then
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir&field.structural_subscriber=&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1
<cpaelzer> hey that one was short enough :-)
<cpaelzer> the top 3 if sorted by last updated are recent
<cpaelzer> anything to share on those?
<cpaelzer> yaml-cpp is a deny until packaging improved
<cpaelzer> libcue expired for lacking a maintaining team, can stay incomplete I think
<cpaelzer> and ledmon is going back and forther between OEM Team and Foundations, until responsibility is clarified incomplete is correct
<cpaelzer> no other recent updates in that topic
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> As I extende the wiki page I wanted to use the chance to make you aware of
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MIRTeam#Process_states
<cpaelzer> it helps me, and I think it helps others as well
<cpaelzer> anything else before we close?
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: fyi I'll send you a diff to http://people.ubuntu.com/~cyphermox/meetings/ubuntu-mir.html when I have the short links available
<cpaelzer> I think I can do so without an external service
<cpaelzer> ok, that seems nothing else
<cpaelzer> ending the meeting in a few seconds ...
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  9 13:23:31 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-10-09-13.05.moin.txt
<cyphermox> thanks cpaelzer
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: I have shortened the URLs we use, would you add the following two to your http://people.ubuntu.com/~cyphermox/meetings/ubuntu-mir.html ?
<cpaelzer> for new MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> that fits in one message AND started ordered by last updated
<cpaelzer> the same for incomplete bugs is
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cyphermox> that's not shortened?
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: that is shortened by skipping useless arguments
<cpaelzer> and in turn makes is short enough to work well in IRC
<cpaelzer> call it "strip defaults from too long URL"
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: so neither of us forgets it I send it via email allowing me to close my temporary editor window over here
<cpaelzer> let me know if there is anything that should change before it can be added
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-10-11
<fginther> o/
<rcj> Odd_Bloke o/
<Odd_Bloke>  /o\
<aleks_bogdanov> hi everyone!
 * vorlon waves
<sil2100> o/
<philroche> \o
<rbalint> o/
<Odd_Bloke> \o
<vorlon> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct 11 15:00:46 2018 UTC.  The chair is vorlon. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<vorlon> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<vorlon> $ echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke fginther juliank platonical tobikoch aleks_bogdanov)
<vorlon> bdmurray rcj tdaitx mwhudson philroche fginther sil2100 tobikoch platonical rbalint cyphermox doko infinity juliank xnox Odd_Bloke aleks_bogdanov vorlon
<vorlon> bdmurray: hullo
<bdmurray> heya
<bdmurray> modified apport to use launchpadlib instead of manual json parsing
<bdmurray> had Launchpad and Error Tracker retracers updated with the above change
<bdmurray> created contents map MP for apport which fixes LP: #1370230
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1370230 in Apport "apport-retrace has become slower" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1370230
<bdmurray> fixed apport's package name lookup in Contents.gz (likely not a real issue)
<bdmurray> modified do-release-upgrade to abort if not all updates are installed or system needs rebooting due to a libc6 upgrade
<bdmurray> investigation into how update-notifier, which uses do-release-upgrade, would be affected
<bdmurray> had import of prometheus data of foundations_errors into production influxdb reviewed
<bdmurray> wrote a release note regarding upgrades to 18.10 on i386
<bdmurray> short week as Monday was a holiday
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> rcj:
<rcj> * cloud-image partner work
<rcj> * completed bzr->git migration for cloud image builds
<rcj> (done)
<xnox> rcj, for all releases right? not just like bionic+?
<rcj> xenial, bionic, cosmic
<vorlon> tdaitx:
<xnox> cool
<tdaitx> * openjdk-11 & 8 security update
<tdaitx>   - applied patches from 28/Sep
<tdaitx>   - compared, reviewed and applied updated patches from 06/Oct
<tdaitx>   - complained to the official channels that patches do not apply cleanly to jdk11u-28 but the gods are not listening
<tdaitx>   - build openjdk-11 and openjdk-10 with 11.0.1-13 patches
<tdaitx>   - build openjdk-8 with 8u191-b12 patches
<tdaitx>   - compared and reviewed yet another update from 09/Oct
<tdaitx>   - waiting for risk matrix so I can tell which CVEs are being fixed and then have a proper changelog
<tdaitx> * investigated openjdk-11 testsuite to shave some hours out of our build
<tdaitx>   - measure build times for the separate hotspot, jdk, and langtools groups/directories
<tdaitx>   - compare the upstream build reports to check what they are testing
<tdaitx>   - investigated how and what to move to autopkgtest
<tdaitx> * investigate libreoffice & clojure1.8 autopkgtest failures holding openjdk-11 migration
<tdaitx>   - libreoffice test expects a class file that is no longer generated with openjdk-11, but even on openjdk-10 this class file is not required, safe to ignore (LP: #1796361)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1796361 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "autopkgtests fail with openjdk 11~28-3ubuntu1 in cosmic-proposed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796361
<tdaitx>   - clojure1.8 fails due to a new overloaded method, fixed (LP: #1796985)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1796985 in clojure1.8 (Ubuntu) "clojure autopkgtest fails to run with openjdk-11" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796985
<tdaitx> * openjdk-11 migration:
<tdaitx>   - testing and checking a few ftbfs from the latest rebuild
<tdaitx>   - following up on reported bad behavior from openjdk-11 (arm64 floats going bad, conf files for flight recorder missing)
<tdaitx>   - updated my todo list of stuff to check before migrating openjdk-11 to bionic
<tdaitx> Other:
<tdaitx>   - back home \o/
<tdaitx>   - also got a few allergies back, snafu
<tdaitx> (done)
<tdaitx> philroche: go!
<philroche> * Oktoberfest in Munich on Thursday and Friday
<philroche> * Cloud image customisations
<philroche> * Substitute image build system vanguard
<philroche> (done)
<philroche> fginther:
<fginther> * Image updates and testing for a partner cloud
<fginther> * Specification and documentation for image publication to a partner cloud
<fginther> (done)
<fginther> sil2100:
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel SRU reviews
<sil2100> - pi3 b+ core16 support:
<sil2100>   * Promoted edge pi3 gadget to stable after gathering test feedback
<sil2100>   * Built new core16 stable images
<sil2100>   * Handed over for testing, support not fully complete, respin might be needed
<sil2100> - core18
<sil2100>   * Looked into reported problems with console-conf
<fginther> * Image updates and testing for a partner cloud
<sil2100>   * Prepared test images to investigate probert segfault issues on raspi3
<fginther> * Specification and documentation for image publication to a partner cloud
<fginther> (done)
<sil2100>   * Issues resolved themselves on the pi3, still happening on dragonboard
<sil2100>   * Prepared merges for core18 dailies in livecd-rootfs and cdimage
<sil2100>   * Discussed possible ways of triggering core series-based builds
<sil2100>   * Checked up on new official model assertions in store
<sil2100> - Coordinating lang-pack base updates
<sil2100> - Fixing partman-partitioning to print warning for missing ESP on EFI always
<sil2100>   * Lots of various testing with that
<sil2100> - Updating non-langpack translations in slideshow
<sil2100> - Looked into core image retention
<sil2100> (done)
<sil2100> ;)
<tobikoch> * work on parallelization of cloud image builds (see internal chat).
<tobikoch> (done)
<tobikoch> platonical:
<vorlon> apparently irc problems
<vorlon> rbalint:
<Odd_Bloke> Should have used the forums.
<fginther> to the forums!
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * fixing my irc accounts
<rbalint> * unattended-upgrades and update-manager SRUs
<rbalint> * further unattended-upgrades fixes
<rbalint> * wireshark security update for all releases
<rbalint> * fix for LP: #1726803
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1726803 in shim-signed (Ubuntu) "unattended-upgrades + nvidia stack upgrade == dkms fail (package shim-signed 1.32~16.04.1+0.9+1474479173.6c180c6-1ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1726803
<rbalint> (done)
<cyphermox> - libdebian-installer, parted: ftbfs fixes
<cyphermox> - started gnulib update for coreutils
<cyphermox> - verifying netplan.io SRU for bionic
<cyphermox> - verifying shim SRU for bionic
<cyphermox> - [HIGHLIGHT] shim/shim-signed 15 released in bionic
<cyphermox> - upstreaming bug with nm openvpn TLS Auth options
<cyphermox> - mokutil update to 0.3.0+1538710437.fb6250f + SRUs
<cyphermox> - reupload grub2 framebuffer fixes from Ivan in bionic-proposed queue
<cyphermox> - fix boot delay due to grub2 timeout code
<cyphermox> (done)
<vorlon> doko is out
<vorlon> infinity not in channel
<vorlon> juliank:
<juliank> * short week - Mon, Tue half days
<juliank> * apt 1.7.0, 1.6.6, 1.2.29 (LP: #1796808)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1796808 in apt (Ubuntu Bionic) "frontend locking regression: dpkg::post-invoke scripts can't install packages" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796808
<juliank> * python-apt 1.7.0
<juliank> * analyzed version regressions between releases
<juliank> (done)
<xnox> * Fixed a few FTBFS packages / helped with migrations
<xnox> * friendly-recovery is in
<xnox> * Round of systemd uploads done:
<xnox>   - xenial accepted into proposed
<xnox>   - bionic in unapproved queue
<xnox>   - cosmic accepted into proposed
<xnox> * Started to add foundations bits to
<xnox>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CosmicCuttlefish/ReleaseNotes
<xnox> * Preparing OpenSSL 1.1.1 for bionic SRU bug + bileto PPA bug #1797386
<ubottu> bug 1797386 in openssl (Ubuntu) "[SRU] OpenSSL 1.1.1 to 18.04 LTS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1797386
<xnox> * Preparing/testing to open Devout Dolphin ð¬ with merged-/usr
<xnox> * Upstreaming a bunch of s390-tools fixes
<xnox> * Reported/Following up OpenSSL 1.1.1 bugs to upstreams (ie. mongo r-curl etc.)
<xnox> * done
<Odd_Bloke> * Fixing xenial cloud images build failures: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1797170
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1797170 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "xenial cloud image builds fail due to /lib/modules being present" [Critical,In progress]
<Odd_Bloke> * Working through issues caused by pre-seeding lxd in all cloud images: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-images/+bug/1796137
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1796137 in cloud-images "huge and slow image 20181002 due to seeded lxd snap" [High,Confirmed]
<Odd_Bloke>   - Some test fixes were required
<Odd_Bloke>   - Helping the lxd and snapd teams with debugging the cause of the issue
<Odd_Bloke>   - Tabulating the effect on boot speed and disk size to determine the impact
<Odd_Bloke>   - Also provided some input on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1797218 which is another, distinct boot issue caused by the pre-seeding
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1797218 in snapd (Ubuntu) "boot hangs in curtin vmtest" [High,Confirmed]
<Odd_Bloke> * Triaging and chasing down the kernel packaging fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-images/+bug/1796647
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1796647 in cloud-images "Shared folders cannot be mounted in ubuntu/cosmic64 due to missing vbox modules" [High,Confirmed]
<Odd_Bloke> aleks_bogdanov:
<aleks_bogdanov> * working on cloud images simplestreams-based KPIs
<aleks_bogdanov> * improvements in azure images publication pipeline
<aleks_bogdanov> * disabling vagrant image console log file, LP#1777827
<aleks_bogdanov> (done)
<aleks_bogdanov> vorlorn:
<vorlon>  * short week; was off Thu-Mon
<vorlon>  * helping with queue reviews going into final freeze
<vorlon>  * misc fixing of stuck packages in -proposed
<vorlon>  * sponsorships for openjdk-11
<vorlon>  * a little bit of chasing of stuck ppc64el autopkgtest queues, but wgrant & IS fixed the cloud before I got anywhere
<vorlon> (done)
<vorlon> questions over status?
<Odd_Bloke> He's missing his old IRC nick, he's vorlorn.
<rbalint> lorn of the vor
<vorlon> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<vorlon> bdmurray:
<sil2100> vorlord sounds better
<xnox> systemd-vorlord
<bdmurray> bug 1796275 came in recently and is tagged iso-testing
<ubottu> bug 1796275 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Screen reader is not auto-enabled on first login if enabled when installing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796275
<tdaitx> vorlon: slangasek: thanks for helping squaring openjdk-11 into the circle
<vorlon> bdmurray: looks like something that we should take
<vorlon> we should coordinate to see if anyone on desktop is looking into it
<xnox> possibly a gdm3 bug too
<xnox> i noticed that enabling screen-reader for user is != as enabling screen-ready a11y in gdm3
<vorlon> bdmurray: I'll put that in trello. anything else?
<bdmurray> vorlon: No, not right now.
<vorlon> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<vorlon> anything else else?
<bdmurray> I could use a review of an apport merge proposal.
<bdmurray> https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/apport/contents-mapping/+merge/356447
<vorlon> any volunteers? ^^ :)
<vorlon> I think xnox is volunteering
<vorlon> ok xnox is committed to reviewing it
<vorlon> his name is on the MP
<vorlon> anything else else else?
 * tribaal says hi to everyone :)
 * vorlon waves to tribaal 
<vorlon> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct 11 15:31:10 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-10-11-15.00.moin.txt
<vorlon> thanks, everyone!
<sil2100> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-10-07
<slashd> o/
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> o/
<marcustomlinson> o/
<slashd> I'll be back in 5 minutes-ish but I'll be attending the meeting
<sil2100> We still need one more for quorum
<sil2100> But even if we don't have quorum, I'd like us to discuss the DMB elections
<rbasak> As usual I'd like to call time and disappear if we don't get quorum by 1910 as this is my evening.
<sil2100> Ok, since it's unlikely we'll get quorum today, just wanted to bring up the topic of the needed DMB elections for the two seats we have free
<rbasak> Clearly we need an election
<rbasak> I'm not sure how that's normally operated
<rbasak> Would it be a TB member usually?
<sil2100> We have it in the KnowledgeBase, it's us that start the election
<sil2100> But the TB then adds the elected people to the team
<sil2100> So question now: any volunteers to drive the election?
<slashd> I agree to go back on election, last time was in 2017 anyway
<slashd> IIRC
<sil2100> I guess I could drive it, but I'm worried it might slip for after the release
<rbasak> We could just agree to do it after the release
<kenvandine> How often do you not get a quorum?
<rbasak> As we know that people are busy before
<sil2100> kenvandine: very often
<sil2100> kenvandine: we're discussing ways to make it better
<ddstreet> quorum is at 45% so far this year
<slashd> sil2100, I can have a look at it starting next week or we can wait after the release
<slashd> release is soon anyway
<sil2100> Ok, let's do it after release
<slashd> lgtm
<sil2100> marcustomlinson: ok, so sadly it seems we can't really review your application - let's try doing that on the next meeting
<sil2100> We're working on some process changes to make the lack of quorum less of an issue
<marcustomlinson> sil2100: alright, better luck next time hopefully :)
<sil2100> Hopefully next time we might not have the same issue
<slashd> marcustomlinson, very sorry
<marcustomlinson> I appreciate that you guys showed up at least ;)
<marcustomlinson> I understand, no worries
<sil2100> Thanks for appearing everyone o/
<slashd> \o
<MajB> I just scheduled a re-verification for the Ubuntu-Arizona Local Community Team on the LoCo Council's Agenda page but it states that the next meeting is in August.  Obviously it hasn't been updated.  Is there something else that I need to do to ensure that our team gets voted on at the November or December LoCo Council meeting.
<sarnold> MajB: you'll probably need to talk to someone specific about it -- not many people pay attention to this channel outside of the meetings they themselves go to
<MajB> The reason I brought it up is we had some scheduling problems back in 2015 and again in 2017 and I wanted to get ahead of any possible problem .
<dax> i haven't dealt with the LC in years and years, but back when i did loco-council@lists.ubuntu.com was the best way of getting a message to all of them
<MajB> Thank you
<MajB> Well that email goes to a mod who will decide if it should be forwarded. :)
<dax> yup, everyone on the LC is a mod of that list, so they should have gotten an email :)
<MajB> Sounds good to me
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-10-08
<doko> cyphermox, didrocks, cpaelzer, jamespage: MIR meeting?
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> hello
<joeubuntu> I'm joining for jdstrand doko.
<didrocks> hey
<cpaelzer> hiho
<cpaelzer> jamespage: while we are here you might answer https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nfs-ganesha/+bug/1843403/comments/4 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1843403 in nfs-ganesha (Ubuntu) "[MIR] nfs-ganesha" [Undecided,New]
<jamespage> my plan was to work the identified work items very early next cycle and then submit for full review
<cpaelzer> perfect
<cpaelzer> I'll quote that into the bug - or will you add it there?
<jamespage> I can add it
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> while we wait for cyphermox I think we should get this started ...
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  8 13:04:59 2019 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer> I wasn't here last week, any actions defined there?
<cpaelzer> we didn't have any meeting actions the week before ...
<doko> joeubuntu: added you to the calendar, and removed jdstrand
<doko> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<doko> joeubuntu: any chance for the libheif review?
<doko> I don't think so
<joeubuntu> Sure, it 2nd in the queue right now doko
<joeubuntu> Sorry, you mean to be pass. I am not sure. Seth it reviewing it.
<cpaelzer> just after zsys :-)
<cpaelzer> so didrocks can give heif a boost by passing zsys position int he queue :-)
<didrocks> \o/
<cpaelzer> doko: the good part is that both are above the "known to be needed for 19.10" line
<cpaelzer> so Seth, joeubuntu and others are aware of the urgency I think
<cpaelzer> joeubuntu: you might ask sarnold if there is any interim progres to report, if so he can share that on the bug
<joeubuntu> libheif was moved out of the 19.10 queue by foundations, but then Brian asked that we add it back in last week, so we did.
<cpaelzer> thanks
<joeubuntu> cpaelzer will do
<cpaelzer> going to new MIRs then
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> the only one being https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nfs-ganesha/+bug/1843403
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1843403 in nfs-ganesha (Ubuntu) "[MIR] nfs-ganesha" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> jamespage: just confirmed that he will work on the known tasks beofre review
<cpaelzer> so I'll mark this incomplete
<cpaelzer> once known todos are done it can be set back to new to show up again
<cpaelzer> doen, no others in this queue this week
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> didrocks: doko: libextutils-depends-perl and libextutils-pkgconfig-perl came in recently
<cpaelzer> I have realized that was in main before
<cpaelzer> so it would be a fast-pass case
<cpaelzer> the uncertainty was about which Team would subscribe
<cpaelzer> currently it seems none is
<didrocks> yeah, seb128 and doko had some discussions on it
<didrocks> but no conclusion it seems
<cpaelzer> OTOH without knowing details I wonder how a pkgconfig kind of package can be a runtime dependency
<doko> "discussions?"  I think it's escalated now to management
<didrocks> doko: can you make sure they discuss this in the foundation/desktop sync?
<didrocks> they already had one last week, but I didn't hear about the results
<doko> didrocks: I asked for that before the last sync
<didrocks> doko: if you need me to push on the desktop side for getting feedback as well, do not hesitate
<didrocks> cpaelzer: yeah, same questionning on pkgconfig
<cpaelzer> from changelog
<cpaelzer>   9   * Reformat debian/control with "dh-make-perl --refresh".
<cpaelzer> could that have been buggy and pulling it in by accident
<cpaelzer> anyway it seems that needs sorting out between Desktop and Foundations
<cpaelzer> given the short time before 19.10 I'd ask you all to keep bothering the people you need for this
<cpaelzer> if one could prove the dependency isn't necesary this would resolve itslef :-)
<cpaelzer> did you last week talk about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abootimg/+bug/1846208 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1846208 in abootimg (Ubuntu) "[MIR] abootimg (dependency of initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core)" [High,Incomplete]
<cpaelzer> it was opened on 1st october not sure it was visible to you last week already
<doko> no idea, the comments sound like bikeshedding
<cpaelzer> It seems like it was opened incomplete, is this waiting on something?
<cpaelzer> xnox: are you around to comment?
<cpaelzer> The rest of the list looks fine to me
<cpaelzer> xnox: can still chime in later here or on the bug - until then we handle the bug as it is flagged "incomplete->no-action"
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> we all hav eseen the jdstrand joeubuntu sarnold change in responsibility
<cpaelzer> nothing on top from server teams side
<cpaelzer> anything else?
<cpaelzer> I'll take this as a lonely no :-)
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct  8 13:22:53 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-10-08-13.04.moin.txt
<joeubuntu> bye all.
<didrocks> doko: FYI, the between team sync didn't happen last week
<didrocks> so, probably this one
<didrocks> bye!
<doko> bye
<sarnold> l
<xnox> ii
<sarnold> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-10-10
<sil2100> o/
<waveform> o/
<juliank> o/
<xnox> o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct 10 15:02:08 2019 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<rbalint> o/
<bdmurray> tdaitx vorlon mwhudson sil2100 infinity waveform xnox doko rbalint cyphermox bdmurray juliank
<bdmurray> tdaitx: is on a plane or in an airport lounge living the life
<bdmurray> vorlon: ?
<vorlon>  * short week, was out on Wednesday
<vorlon>  * finished NBS cleanup
<vorlon>  * the usual end-of-cycle queue reviews
<vorlon>  * started populating the packageset for not-for-i386 packages
<vorlon> (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100:
<sil2100> - Eoan queue reviews
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Prepared a different approach for the ubunut-image uc20 changes, wrote tests
<sil2100>   * Waiting for PR review from Michael
<sil2100> - Sponsoring/reviewing various packages for the pi4 support from Dave
<sil2100> - Reviewing the pi3-gadget classic changes from Dave, looking into flash-kernel in bionic
<sil2100> - Investigating the license file for the IMX6-related GPU firmware blobs, found possible issues
<sil2100> - Coordinated investigation of the dragonboard core18 boot issues without serial
<sil2100>   * New gadget in testing, certification found some other issues with it
<sil2100> - Reviewed and merged the core18 check for snapd.service existing PR
<sil2100> - Reproduced bug, prepared and tested a fix for the u-r-u partial upgrades being broken on eoan
<sil2100> - Verified ubuntu-release-upgrader SRU for disco
<sil2100> - Poked IS for a fresh full language-pack export for eoan
<sil2100> - Helping out with image build advice for James
<sil2100> - Started preparations for travel
<sil2100> (done)
<waveform> * Re-reviewed nitrogen6 MP - https://code.launchpad.net/~fisterra-team/fisterra/+git/nitrogen6x-gadget/+merge/371450
<waveform> * Load of FFe updates for Pi4 boot:
<waveform> - LP: #1846329
<waveform> - LP: #1847163
<waveform> - LP: #1847587
<waveform> * Prepared update for including Pi build instructions in livecd-rootfs - https://code.launchpad.net/~waveform/ubuntu/+source/livecd-rootfs/+git/livecd-rootfs/+ref/image-build-readme
<waveform> * PR for Pi gadget snap was merged - https://github.com/snapcore/pi3-gadget/pull/29 (tomorrow's dailies should theoretically boot OOTB on a Pi4)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1846329 in u-boot (Ubuntu) "[FFe] 2019.07 to support Pi4 boot" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1846329
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1847163 in linux-firmware-raspi2 (Ubuntu Bionic) "[FFe] Firmware bump for Pi 4 boot support" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847163
<waveform> * Reported an issue with RAM access on the Pi4; LP: #1847500 (currently working on this with Hui from the kernel team)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1847587 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu) "Add entries for Pi 4" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847587
<waveform> * Responded to various questions regarding the new Eoan dailies, including LP: #1847596
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1847500 in u-boot (Ubuntu) "Full RAM on Pi4 isn't accessible when using u-boot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847500
<bdmurray> its a bit early for infinity and dave just wants to skip him
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1847596 in linux-raspi2 (Ubuntu) "rpi3b+: corrupted screen on hdmi" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847596
<waveform> (done)
<xnox> * discussed upgrades to OEM archives with techboard
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> * subiquity bugfixes & release
<xnox> * ubiquity bugfixes & release
<xnox> * release week next week
<xnox> * lxd group regressed core20 building, is ubuntu-base meant to have lxd group in?
<xnox> * done
<doko> - some laptop fun, turned out to be out a bad power supply, got a new one
<doko> - binutils 2.33 release (although there are no upstream tarballs)
<doko> - one more round of GCC updates
<doko> - Python 2.7, 3.7 and 3.8 release candidates
<doko> - another openjdk-lts update
<bdmurray> doko:
<doko> - still doing LTO ftbfs evaluations
<doko> - python3-defaults autopkg test fun
<doko> (done)
<rbalint> * many systemd SRU verifications
<rbalint> * updated systemd 242 again in eoan, still in -proposed, mostly due to regressions from i368->amd64 kernel switch
<rbalint> * unattended-upgrades bugs gardening
<rbalint> * preparing libevent transition for after release opening
<rbalint> (done)
<cyphermox> - short week, catching up from the beginning of the week
<cyphermox> - updated translations for ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<cyphermox> - submitting our shim for review
<cyphermox> - will check if it's worth doing another ubiquity translation update now
<cyphermox> (done)
<bdmurray> juliank:
<juliank> this is going to take a bit
<juliank> * Remove the command-not-found-data package (LP: #1844651)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1844651 in command-not-found (Ubuntu Eoan) "command-not-found-data package is unnecessary" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1844651
<juliank> * SRU initramfs-tools:  Add support for panic=-1 value (LP: #1831252)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1831252 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu Bionic) "panic=-1 is completely ignored by the initrd causing unexpected behaviour" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1831252
<juliank> * Sponsored urdfdom{,-headers} bionic SRU
<juliank> * Fixed apt list output for trusty ESM (LP: #1847496)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1847496 in apt (Ubuntu Trusty) "[trusty] policy not always initialized when building depcache" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847496
<juliank> * Verfied https SRU for u-r-u and update-manager
<juliank> * Some idea and merge proposal review
<sil2100> cyphermox: when did you do the previous ubiquity translations update?
<juliank> * Initial look at a python-apt bug affecting landscape client in python3 (in AcquireProgress, outputfile.fileno() raising exception where we expect it to not exist)
<juliank> (done, I think)
<cyphermox> sil2100: last week; but it was before the strings freeze
<bdmurray> Are there any questions on status? other than sil2100s
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1847251
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1847251 in casper (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity in the 20191008 daily image for 19.10 doesn't present the minimal install option" [Critical,Triaged]
<cyphermox> sil2100: (hence, my question, which essentially meant I'd check if there were new translations)
<sil2100> cyphermox: ok, thanks ;)
<bdmurray> Laney: Can you elaborate on what this bug is about?
<bdmurray> xnox will test this and comment on the bug report
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1847458
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1847458 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "EFI chainloader no longer uses shim lock protocol" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> bdmurray: should be fixed with the casper revert
<bdmurray> Laney: that upload seb did?
<Laney> yes
<bdmurray> got it
<Laney> if you want more details I can give them, but I would also expect that xnox understands it too :-)
<bdmurray> Laney: well the bug description was opaque. Is the the GUI radio buttons in the installer for the minimal install?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> they rely on a file in /cdrom
<Laney> which wasn't present due to the bug in casper
<xnox> which is now fixed
<Laney> that is now reverted, /cdrom appears consistently again, so the bug is not present
<bdmurray> Okay, that makes sense now. I did an install yesterday and saw the minimal option so its probably fixed.
<xnox> the bug report has old image timestamp
<xnox> retesting with todays images to make sure it's there
<Laney> I think we closed a different report in the upload
<Laney> that one can also be zapped
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<bdmurray> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> Can anybody speak to this?
<rbalint> waveform, had libapp-stacktrace-perl
<sil2100> So it seems the first 3 are all known
<doko> bdmurray: you should be able to speak about the perl packages
<bdmurray> doko: do you mean bug 1846217?
<ubottu> bug 1846217 in libcairo-gobject-perl (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libextutils-depends-perl, libextutils-pkgconfig-perl (dependency of libcairo-gobject-perl)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1846217
 * gaughen waves
<bdmurray> Christian indicates that these used to be in main.
<sil2100> gaughen: o/
<bdmurray> I'll subscribe the foundations team to both packages
<sil2100> There are the python3-defaults failures, doko are you investigating those?
<doko> django ... I had removed that, so curious why it's there again
<doko> sil2100: no, not all
<sil2100> doko: ok
<vorlon> django-compat: I reran the tests and confirmed the regression is present in release pocket so I've hinted it now
<sil2100> vcr.py looks like it might have regressed in release as well
<sil2100> Since I see it failed for the six trigger as well
<doko> yes, this looks so
<vorlon> doko: you did remove django-compat before, and it made django-background-tasks uninstallable; why was it removed in the first place?
<sil2100> I can pick that up and hint then
<sil2100> bdmurray: I'll create a card
<doko> vorlon: because it's removed in Debian testing, and ddoesn't have any rdepends
<doko> python-msrestazure: this is a mess. should be all removed, or ignored
<doko> see #u-r for that this afternoon
<vorlon> doko: then you should have deleted it, not demoted it to -proposed
<doko> and python-sparse: given back some hours ago, but I can't see any autopkg test updates
<doko> vorlon: I removed one package, and demoted the other one
<doko> and please approve python-defaults as well. would like to see the state of the mess *before* we are opening the archive next cycle
<vorlon> I've done a retry of the remaining python3-defaults blockers without proposed now, to see what is ignorable
<doko> are such retries described somewhere?
 * sil2100 confirmed that the vcr.py is regressed in the archive, will fill a bug and hint
<vorlon> doko: retry-autopkgtest-regressions --no-proposed
<bdmurray> that's in ubuntu-archive-tools right?
<vorlon> y
<doko> can you see that from the log web page?
<vorlon> no
<bdmurray> have we talked about gdb and imagemagick in previous meetings?
<rbalint> bdmurray, yes, imagemagick is a long running mir
<vorlon> yes; imagemagick is blocked on MIR, gdb is blocked on a regression in a revdep which from the name would seem to not be a spurious regression
<bdmurray> okay, let's move on then
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<cyphermox> vorlon: xnox: chainloader regression might be a misunderstanding; modulo the arm64 issues.
<sil2100> Example of a hint addition I did for vcr.py: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/britney/hints-ubuntu/revision/3964
<bdmurray> Monday is a US and Canadian holiday
<bdmurray> I'll be working in London on Monday though
<bdmurray> cyphermox: Are you taking the holiday or swapping it?
<bdmurray> vorlon: Will you be around on Monday?
<cyphermox> bdmurray: taking the holiday
<bdmurray> Anything else?
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct 10 15:43:04 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-10-10-15.02.moin.txt
<vorlon> bdmurray: no, I will not be around
<gaughen> I'll be around Monday!
<sarnold> gaughen: (don't forget monday is canadian thanksgiving)
<bashfulrobot> sarnold: Damn us Canadians. Ha Ha
<sarnold> bashfulrobot :D
