#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-20
<Azelphur> what package is add-apt-repository in?
<dutchie> Azelphur: dpkg -S $(which add-apt-repository)
<dutchie> python-software-properties: /usr/bin/add-apt-repository
<Azelphur> ty
<dutchie> that is a useful invocation to remember
<Azelphur> dutchie: this is why I keep logs :)
<LordTebibit> I blame dutchie for today's splits.
<[Farsight]> register Azra3l
<[Farsight]> :S
 * LordTebibit resists urge to ghost [Farsight]
<LordTebibit> CHANGE THE PASSWORD QUICK
<[Farsight]> done it :)
<Craig_Dem> I've done that so many times I've lost count.
<Craig_Dem> I have to get the IRC client to do it for me.
<daftykins> anyone bake brownies regularly? i'm after a decent recipe :)
<daftykins> also, hi! it's been a while :)
<hamitron> daftykins: not sure on how to make them, but I recommend you put a frame in the tray
<daftykins> hey hamitron, how do you mean?
<hamitron> if you bake them in 1 large slab, they go soggy in the middle
<daftykins> yeah my first plan sort of failed like that
<daftykins> although it also wasn't proper chocolate
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> yeah i didn't read the label properly, it was chocolate flavour cake topping
<hamitron> hehe
<daftykins> so it was only something like 5% cocoa
<daftykins> :D
<hamitron> I don't make them
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> but my sister is a cheff
<daftykins> well i've got allegedly the right stuff now
<daftykins> o rly
<hamitron> so I eat stuff ofc
<hamitron> :)
 * hamitron is the proud owner of 1 round belly
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> there is a metal tray sorta cake-mould like in the kitchen
<daftykins> as in, with 6 little cupped bits so to speak
<daftykins> not sure if that's a good idea or not
<hamitron> I'd guess it won't hold enough
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> hamitron: hehe indeed
<hamitron> I personally like soggy fatty stuff though
<hamitron> so depends on your taste
<hamitron> just not so easy to eat as they fall apart
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> just want to make good ones really
<hamitron> man, need grub now
<hamitron> but I should really sleep, got an early start
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i'm feeling like that
<hamitron> you are the one cooking brownies at 1:30am...
<daftykins> oh no i'm just planning to :D
<hamitron> I never do more than a bacon butty
<hamitron> ah :)
<daftykins> maybe tomorrow
<daftykins> i'm overthinking the whole process now
<hamitron> making a scedule on google calander and everything? ;/
<hamitron> must admit, I sometimes spend too much time thinking about doing something :\
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i must admit, sometimes you see things you wouldn't have thought of
<daftykins> and can save yourself some time
<daftykins> but mostly you just don't get it done :D
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> my personal website has taken 12 years, and it only has "Temp Page" on it
<Azelphur> hamitron: reminds me of Daviey's website
<hamitron> Daviey?
<Azelphur> yup
<daftykins> Azelphur: \o/
<hamitron> who? :D
<Azelphur> you know, team leader.
<Azelphur> xD
<hamitron> team leader?
<Azelphur> he's the ubuntu uk team leader
<hamitron> oh, I don't know that sorta thing ;/
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> I just chat and enjoy myself in here
<Azelphur> me too :p
<daftykins> all the idlers seem important in here i find.
<Azelphur> hamitron: Daviey is funny, I rent a VPS off him and paying for it is like getting blood out of a stone
<hamitron> talking of idlers... wonder if I got into top 20 yet
<Azelphur> I believe it's about a month since he was going to eat his hat if he didn't invoice me tommorrow which was about a month after he was going to fix it because it was getting silly which is about a month...
<Azelphur> he does monthly *cough*yearly*cough* billing :p
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> that is kinda service I need...
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> pophey has reset the stats? :|
<Azelphur> hamitron: the random huge bill type of service? :p
<Azelphur> hamitron: indeed, madness :(
<hamitron> oh no
<Azelphur> hamitron: I have this little club, "People waiting to pay Daviey"
<Azelphur> there's 3 people in it now.
<hamitron> just bill me for a month once a year would be nicer
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> oh noes
<hamitron> I found 2 choc oranges :/
<hamitron> all hail the essential IT supplies drawer... \o/
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> sweet
<hamitron> I got an unopened pack of cdrw too
<hamitron> max 2x :/
<hamitron> 40 min burn for 650Mb kinda sucks these days
 * hamitron is sorting stuff ready for xmas
<daftykins> haha my first writer was 4x
<daftykins> i thought that was bad
<daftykins> so 2x, that's 300KB/sec :>
<hamitron> at the time, my hd was only 1.2Gb ;/
<hamitron> this was like amazing
<hamitron> wish I could have 5Tb optical disks now
<hamitron> for Â£2 each
<daftykins> ugh i don't trust data on optical media :)
<hamitron> or even Â£10
<hamitron> me neither
<hamitron> but what can ya do?
<hamitron> atm I have loads of hd, and everything I have is on 2 disks at a time
<hamitron> not even sure how much of what, I have where now
<Azelphur> I'm trying to play this on piano http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWouiFmYBjo#t=4s
<Azelphur> it's like a guitar hero scene from hell xD
<Azelphur> I've already got the first couple lines down, making progress \o/
<hamitron> :D
<daftykins> i have a 5TB file server that's RAID 5'd
<daftykins> it does me well.
<daftykins> though of course it's no substitute for backup
<hamitron> daftykins: I not got the budget
<daftykins> no? why not? :)
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> I probably do, but waste it on crap
<hamitron> ;/
<daftykins> in some ways i'm considering the above waste now :D
<hamitron> my NAS can do RAID 1 if I want, but I prefer to have no raid, then use the 2nd disk as a backup
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/December%202010/hesapirateline1.ogg the bit I can play so far xD
<Azelphur> also half speed \o/
<hamitron> not bad
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> ty :p
<Azelphur> gonna try and tackle it one line a day hopefully I'll get through it lol
<Azelphur> this is one way to resume piano after a few years break \o/
<hamitron> we should mix our music together
<hamitron> haha
<Azelphur> haha what do you play?
<hamitron> drums
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> I try to play ;/
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> ah that was great browser
<daftykins> give me a little grey box with a loading animation on Azelphur's link
<hamitron> mine did too
<hamitron> :)
<daftykins> then just turn said animation into a lighter grey cross :P
<hamitron> hmmm
<Azelphur> haha no doubt trying to stream it and not doing too well
<hamitron> mine had a play and pause button \o/
<hamitron> kinda proud
<hamitron> it is normally my connection that breaks
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> well i'd have alternatives but i'm feeling lazy
<daftykins> and it's late
<Azelphur> you just file save as
<Azelphur> and open it in a media player
<Azelphur> it's just an ogg file :D
<daftykins> zomg
<daftykins> yeah i knew it was
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> any good? :D
<daftykins> i never know you could just save as that way
<Azelphur> well, for a few hours anyway
<Azelphur> :)
<daftykins> i always used to just shove it in a download manager, or make a little HTML file so i could right click
<daftykins> i'm sure it doesn't work for some failed content
<Azelphur> haha
<daftykins> e.g. say if my browser tries to use quicktime plugins
<Azelphur> daftykins: if you think thats cool, go watch a youtube video and look in /tmp
<daftykins> and i want to just download the .mov or whatever
<Azelphur> you'll find a FlashXyzzy video :)
<daftykins> Azelphur: ah that i knew already. although i don't run ubuntu
<Azelphur> ah
<hamitron> can I use javascript to insert raw html code from another file?
<hamitron> or another html page without using frames
<Azelphur> hamitron: yea, I have an example of that on my webpage
<daftykins> interesting, winamp is associated to .ogg but sticks its' nose up at it
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://game.azelphur.com/players?serverid=1
<hamitron> ty, will look
<hamitron> :)
<daftykins> sounds good by the way ^_^
<Azelphur> hamitron: that page automatically updates itself every few seconds by grabbing content from http://game.azelphur.com/serverplayers.php?serverid=1
<Azelphur> daftykins: ty :D
<daftykins> screw the speed XD
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I'll get the speed soon enough
<Azelphur> hopefully within a week or 2 :p
<hamitron> I can't get the speed yet :/
<daftykins> friend of mine played for years
<hamitron> sorta been trying for 18 months now
<daftykins> don't think she does much anymore
<daftykins> anywho g'night gents!
<daftykins> o/
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> nn dafty
<hamitron> but I am slowly getting better Azelphur
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> probably not as fast as I could if I practised regularly
<Azelphur> indeed, regular practice is the key :p
<hamitron> but I find I have to consider others in the house...
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> yay for midi keyboard and headphones
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> may start seti@home again
<hamitron> or do we have a team for some other project in here?
<cmr215> hi.. can someone help me with a microphone problem? i have been stuck for days and i never had this problem before with ubuntu but this is a new laptop
<cmr215> my mic is working in the sound recorder application but not for skype, google talk, or anythink else online... icall.,com either
<Apacheuk> morning, too early? :)
<andylockran> Morning
<andylockran> not too early
<Apacheuk> morning
<andylockran> How's thigns?
<MartijnVdS> cold
<Apacheuk> yeah, cold.... the wife left for 15mins ago.... and I can still see her sat on the driveway de-icing :)
<Apacheuk> for work, that should read
<exobuzz> its very colfd
<andylockran> it is nice and fresh out
<andylockran> was out Saturday night in Brum, walking home in -11*C - quite refreshing
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Scott James Remnant] Events are like Methods - http://www.netsplit.com/2010/12/20/events-are-like-methods/
<kazade> morning all
 * kazade is trying not to get annoyed about the Government's impending internet blacklist :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings...
<kazade> o/
<AlanBell> morning
<dwatkins> hi folks
<dogmatic69> o/
<daubers> Morning
<exobuzz> morning
<bigcalm> Brrrrr, morning
<nperry> morning, brrrrr, o/
<nperry> Note to self, make sure back door is shut on car... So the inside isn't frozen.
<dogmatic69> hehe
<popey> morning
<mattt> brrr
<mattt> had ice _inside_ my windows this morning :
<mattt> :D
<exobuzz> weather.com said -18 in oxford last night, and bbc weather said -8. strange
<mattt> windchill?
<exobuzz> bbc weather did say on friday night no snow for saturday too though
<exobuzz> could be
<nperry> my car read minus 9
<exobuzz> in my leanto it was -9 and its warmer in there than outside because of boiler
<exobuzz> but anyway. still in the crikey it's cold range
<nperry> And its heavy snow now :)_
<exobuzz> where are you ?
<nperry> Warminster, Wiltshire
<exobuzz> oh
<nperry> 2cm fallen within an hour
<exobuzz> wonder if it gets as far as oxford.
<nperry> Its suppose to.
<nperry> Coming up from Bournemouth blowing north east, so you shoudl :P
<exobuzz> nice.. can get even more snowed in
<nperry> I've got no excuse to be snowed in, I've got a 4x4
<Apacheuk> my commute was hellish this morning, I had to negotiate to dogs sleeping on the hall landing, took me an extra 30 seconds ;) lol
<exobuzz> snow outside, warm fire, and james bond dvd boxset.. (or the great escape).. perfect
<nperry> exobuzz: shall I tell you what happens in the great escape?
<exobuzz> nperry, please no! .. is it jut me, or do other people when they watch it "hope" that the cooler king will finally make the jump over the wire on the bike
<exobuzz> :)
<exobuzz> steve mcqueen  <3
<nperry> Haha, i laugh at that every time
<exobuzz> i got it on dvd just in case they forget to show it at xmas
<nperry> I must of watched it about 30times
<exobuzz> yeh.. tis a great film though
<czajkowski> aloha
<exobuzz> also got a ton of alfred hitchcock films i like to watch at xmas
<popey> lo czajkowski
<popey> czajkowski: hows things?
<nperry> czajkowski: How are you?
<exobuzz> nperry, what's yer favourite film for xmas then ? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey czajkowski
<exobuzz> captain pope!
<TheOpenSourcerer> cz have you made it back to Eire?
<nperry> exobuzz: urrrrmmmmmm, that a tough one.
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski:  ^--^
<czajkowski> not yet.... 10 am flight tomorrow
<nperry> exobuzz: I would have to go home alone to watch at christmas
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - Assuming that the next dump that is coming this afternoon doesn't cause more delays I guess?
<exobuzz> oh noes!  hehe
<exobuzz> they are sure to show it this year...
<popey> gently snowing here in farnborough
<nperry> heavy here popey
<popey> http://popey.com/webcam/ doesnt show up on the camera though, so light
<nperry> should be coming your way
<TheOpenSourcerer> Apparently it is already snowing quite hard in Guildford. We have a few small flakes at the mo but nothing significant.
<exobuzz> snowman looking a bit camp with the limp wrists ;-)
<MartijnVdS> webcamp
<bigcalm> Has it been named yet?
<popey> hah
<popey> "Snowy"
<exobuzz> snubuntu ?
<exobuzz> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://uksnowmap.com/ Interesting chart - very good concentration of tweets...
<exobuzz> thats a popular site. nice idea. i wonder how much cache the adverts generated
<exobuzz> wow. lots of snow
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think this is more reliable than the Met Office: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/uk_latest_radar.html
<exobuzz> its coming!!
<exobuzz> s/cache/cash/
<czajkowski> yay another hotel to stay tonight
<bigcalm> \o/
<popey> czajkowski: decent one?
 * nperry wonders why met office twitter is only office hours... does it not snow/rain out of office hours?
<bigcalm> nperry: Not everybody works 24/7
<Apacheuk> yay! water leak in the comms room at work, no VPN access
<bigcalm> Ouch
<Apacheuk> yeah, good for me, maybe not so for the comms guys :)
<popey> nperry: same goes for many gov websites
<nperry> Might be worth paying some one to do out of office hours, for something as important as weather.
<czajkowski> popey think so yvonnie booked it for me and is close by
<bigcalm> It's 20/12 - the end of the world?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: hahaha :)
<daubers> Anyone know of a tool that parses iostat data into some kind of csv file?
<bigcalm> What's the output of iostat like?
<diplo> http://www.unix.com/shell-programming-scripting/135941-parsing-iostat-real-time.html
<diplo> Think i've used this post before
<daubers> diplo: Ooooh, ta
<diplo> Car tracks are filled in by new snow now
 * diplo wants to go home and play with kids in the snow
<brobostigon> morning all.
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: did you get to Ireland :)
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<MartijnVdS> People in the south aren't happy now I guess: http://www.meteox.nl/h.aspx?r=&jaar=-3&soort=loop1uur
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yeah, spoton.
<exobuzz> no snow here yet... waiting..
<exobuzz> (didcot)
<diplo> lots here near bath :(
<Apacheuk> exobuzz: its in Thame apparently, jsut spoke to a friend and its just started
<exobuzz> im sort of enjoying it..
<exobuzz> well. its nice to look at.. not nice if you have to get somewhere. heh
<exobuzz> Apacheuk, aah .. not far then
<brobostigon> we have around a foot of snow stuck here.
<popey> yay
<MartijnVdS> Everything was clear here (well, lots of snow but the roads had been cleared)
<MartijnVdS> but now the road surface is freezing again, so maximum speeds have been lowered _everywhere_ :)
<MartijnVdS> I'm glad I decided to work from home
<exobuzz> popey, how did you manage the snowman. my snow here is just powder. cant get it started. just crumbled!
<exobuzz> too cold
<popey> yeah, it was tricky
<exobuzz> got some pro tips ?
<popey> http://popey.blip.tv/file/4528709/ watch my pro snowman video!
<popey> :)
<popey> also available in ogg theora http://popey.blip.tv/file/4528709?filename=Popey-SnowmanBuilding655.ogv
<exobuzz> haha cool!
<exobuzz> love your outside webcam.
<popey> :)
<popey> exobuzz: sam picked the head up at one point then dropped it, it split into 3 parts
<popey> I expect as the snow warms it will resplit and fall again
<bigcalm> That's gonna leave a mark
<popey> Yeah, very nasty bruise
<bigcalm> Bit of a headache maybe
<popey> i was surprised he could lift it, it was pretty heavy
<andylockran> did you put ice on it to reduce the swelling?
<popey> It snow joke bigcalm
<bigcalm> popey: I wouldn't want such a splitting headache myself#
<popey> you can probably make out the split
<popey> just behind his left eye
<popey> goes from his hat to his neck
<popey> yeah, you can make out the shadow of it on the cam
<popey> s/left/right/
<bigcalm> I thought he was wearing a wig
<popey> shhh!
<popey> he'll hear you
<daubers> Hmmm... snowing again
<popey> he's very sensitive about that
<popey> I think he's looking at me
<exobuzz> popey, tried again no luck. its just powder. i cant even form a snowball
<popey> :(
<exobuzz> maybe in a few days
<exobuzz> and i hit my shin against a camouflaged plant pot!
<exobuzz> too dangerous for me out there!
<brobostigon> :(
<exobuzz> and there was a row of death icicles waiting to fall on you when you open the door!
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> so we're lucky you're still here ;)
<popey> i was tempted to get the hoze out and spray the garden with a fine mist so we'd have lots of ice everywhere
<popey> "lucky"
<popey> yes
<popey> thats it
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<bigcalm> popey: you want ice?
<popey> i was bored ;)
<MartijnVdS> do you have skates? 8-)
<popey> i dont
<popey> i also don't posess a sense of balance
<daubers> Hmmm... touch worried about the fact my car already has a cm of snow on it....
<exobuzz> popey, and now your idea is logged, so that everyone is pre warned about your ice trap!
<kazade> popey, did you up the rate of capture of your webcam
<kazade> ?
<popey> no
<popey> it captures when the image changes by more than a certain amount
<popey> its not timed
<kazade> ah ok
<kazade> that makes sense
<exobuzz> on friday before the snow arrived at 4am there was a couple doing a certain act again my car. actually missed it but was informed by the neighbour the next day.
<exobuzz> classy
<popey> i can adjust the sensitivity
<kazade> coz when you tweeted about building a snowman, I realized I could almost watch you in realtime by refreshing....
<kazade> then I thought that was a bit weird, so I stopped
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> Ha
<exobuzz> popey, how is the camera connected/powered etc ?
<popey> i should blog this shouldn't I?
<popey> people ask me enough times
<MartijnVdS> Yes, you should.
<exobuzz> yeh please. :)
<popey> ok
<MartijnVdS> "Making snowmen like a real man"
<exobuzz> hehe
<MartijnVdS> ("like a boss")
<nperry> snow++
<exobuzz> until i build one this year, i only have last years "strange" looking snowman http://www.exotica.org.uk/mediawiki/files/e/e6/2009-02-05-snowman.jpg
<exobuzz> almost 2 years ago..
<brobostigon> nice hat, :)
<exobuzz> it was.. until my daughter had a poo accident on it.. its since had to be destroyed. :)
<exobuzz> the snowman wasnt wearing it at the time of course.
<MartijnVdS> Nice teeth. NHS? ;)
<brobostigon> lol
<exobuzz> yeh haha
<_H> ping exobuzz
<exobuzz> pong
<_H> ok... odd
<_H> https and http aint working
<MartijnVdS> but IRC is? :) nice
<exobuzz> bandwidth management.. irc has priority
<brobostigon> port blocking ?
<diplo> exobuzz, you do dev on xbmc don't you ?
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> hmm still in hotel 1 as no taxi will collect me to bring me to hotel 2 due to roads
<diplo> wimps
<diplo> :)
<exobuzz> diplo, yeh. mostly on the xbox version and a few minor patches on mainline xbmc
<diplo> recommend it over boxee ?
<diplo> About to reinstall myrevo and just wanta clean install and not lots of apps
<diplo> tried it 6+ months ago
<diplo> Only one thing i don't like over Team Media portal for both xbmc and boxee is that i cant lock down spefiic folders, so i had a kids area before so just animated films and series ( postman pat etc ) we're
<exobuzz> ive not actually tried boxee, so i couldnt say
<diplo> with both the others last time i've tried they are all under videos
<exobuzz> the new addons stuff in xbmc is nice
<exobuzz> it has decent rtmp streaming meaning you dont need flash to view iplayer for example.
<diplo> been reading up on it earlier, does look good
<diplo> Well i think i'll give it another try later.
<exobuzz> boxee uses a built in browser with flash or something i believe.
<exobuzz> if you try em both, id be interesting in your thoughts / preference
<exobuzz> i only actually run xbmc on linux for testing stuff, as my "htpc" is the old xbox1 still..
<diplo> kk, not sure how i installed mine
<diplo> heh, i recently gave my xbox1 away, tbh alot of my video is mkv encoded so it just couldn;t handle it
<nperry> still snowing here woo
 * czajkowski stabs nperry for being happy with snow 
<maco> czajkowski: if you were near mountains you might be happy with snow :)
<czajkowski> no I will never ever be happyw ith snow!
 * maco intends to spend all next week skiing
<MartijnVdS> maco: from home to work? :)
<maco> MartijnVdS: nah, hols
<gord> its a monday and i'm not working on ubuntu stuff \o/ holidays are the best
 * daubers ponders a walk upto Tesco to get some lunch
<MartijnVdS> slide*
 * AlanBell wonders where czajkowski is today
 * czajkowski is here
<czajkowski> in hotel A close to airport
<czajkowski> trying to get to hotel b later on
<AlanBell> then catching flight c?
<davmor2> czajkowski: not in ireland then?
<czajkowski> davmor2: no do keep up
 * czajkowski wallops davmor2 
<czajkowski> AlanBell: flight is tomorrow at 10am
<AlanBell> departure board isn't looking very full http://www.heathrowairport.com/ and gives me a huge javascript error
<czajkowski> AlanBell: that website is ass
<popey> MartijnVdS / exobuzz you asked... http://popey.com/blog/2010/12/20/my-ubuntu-webcam-setup/
 * Nafallo sighs at the council
<Nafallo> why do they have to be so oooold!
<bigcalm> popey: whose house does the webcam look at then?
<popey> thats my garage :)
<popey> then a neighbour beyond that
<bigcalm> Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh, that makes so much more sense now :)
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> sence
 * Nafallo just explained to some poor guy in detail how e-mail clients work these days and then asked him to forward my concerns about missing header information from their case-tracking application
<popey> no, you were right first time
<popey> sense
<bigcalm> This is why I thought you had a wifi webcam or a very long USB lead or such
<Nafallo> cause you know... reading inboxes are HARD
<czajkowski> Nafallo: but of course
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> clearly
<Nafallo> hmm
<exobuzz> popey, are you some kind of writing machine! might take me longer to read it :)
<exobuzz> interesting. been a while since i tried a webcam on linux. i remember how awful it used to be though. back in the olden days
<MartijnVdS> lots of stuff is UVC now, which is Good
<exobuzz> (not finished reading. just a 1/3 way comment)
<exobuzz> is it possible to go direct to theora with mencoder/ffmpeg instead of transcoding. guess there is quality loss there
<exobuzz> also.. why not mpeg4 instead of msmpeg4v2 ? :)
<exobuzz> nice article though. time to dig out an old webcam
<popey> :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] My Ubuntu Webcam Setup - http://popey.com/blog/2010/12/20/my-ubuntu-webcam-setup/
<nperry> oh dear, the girlfriend has left her car in the hedge
<Darael> nperry: Oh, dear.
<diplo> nperry, where is that ?
<diplo> I'm in your area :) make sure we watch out
<daubers> nperry: At least you can class that as "Off the road" when you state where it's parked on the insurance form
<danfish> ironically, Winter doesn't 'officially' start until tomorrow
<daubers> Urgh, still need to drive home and it's snowing again
<Darael> danfish: That's silly, tommorow is /mid/winter.
<diplo> yep same here, thinking of leaving shortly :)
<daubers> diplo: Can't leave until the couriers picked up :(
<danfish> Darael: yup, I agree
<mattt> daubers: snowing again?  where you at?
 * mattt wants no more snow
<diplo> We have in bA14 ( Nr Bath )
<diplo> Stopped for an hour, but basically been constant since 9:30/10 i suppose
<mattt> ughhh
<diplo> Getting quite heavy againnow
<nperry> diplo is in trowbridge..
<nperry> stopped in warminster
<diplo> yeah just started about 5 mins ago
<issyl0> Hey.
<diplo> winds blowing in your direction nperry so could be on it;s way to you now
<diplo> :)
<issyl0> AlanBell: ping. I'm wondering, where is the Wiki page for the Christmas thing tomorrow, if indeed it is still going ahead? (popey?)
<AlanBell> hi issyl0
<nperry> sounds good, girlfriend got sent home from virgin... Made it to our village and got stuck in a hedge about 10m from the house
<AlanBell> college today issyl0?
<maco> AlanBell: mistab?
<AlanBell> where?
<diplo> Much damage nperry ?
<maco> AlanBell: issy isnt hte person who just /join'd...
<maco> OH
<maco> i fail at reading. she's above the join
<AlanBell> Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2
 * mattt stares at maco
<AlanBell> maco: lots of snow here at the moment
<Daviey> AlanBell, looks like the snow is blocking me going to the london event :(
<AlanBell> mattt: don't worry, she isn't from round these parts
<AlanBell> Daviey: oh noes!
 * mattt pats maco on the head
<maco> yeah all ive got is a light dusting of snow
<Pendulum> there is no snow here :(
<maco> i can see the grass through it
<maco> Pendulum: but you're north!
<Pendulum> I would like the UK weather to move to New England
<maco> i would like to be on a mountain with a foot of fresh powder
<Pendulum> maco: I know. we're in a small area that has pretty much avoided everything. instead it's been far, far too cold
<AlanBell> London is north of Calgary
<Pendulum> but my father would like a snowstorm on Christmas Day so that we don't have to go to my aunt & uncle's for christmas
<maco> hahaha
<Pendulum> well, it's 60 miles away, always runs late, and my cousin is cooking turkey and she's never done a huge meal before :-/
<exobuzz> popey, joggler related.. not ubuntu though :) http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/MtWc_BIHflg/
<Pendulum> he'd like to have the weather as an excuse so we can stay home and have a standing roast
<Pendulum> (if not, we will have the roast on the 26th, but will still not avoid the long drive and possibly my grandmother and I falling asleep before dinner)
<daubers> mattt: Near reading
 * AlanBell is on a bootie call with Daviey
<mattt> daubers: damn, not far from me :(
<Daviey> AlanBell, hah
<maco> Pendulum: does what AlanBell just said mean something different on their side of the pond than it does on ours?
<AlanBell> maco: I hope so :)
<Pendulum> maco: I agree with AlanBell on this one, but I don't know the meaning
<popey> exobuzz: is that xp on the joggler?
<exobuzz> yeh
<exobuzz> some chinese hackers.. nothing released though. just the video and some forum threads in chinese
<popey> i cant see that site, no flash on this machine
<Pendulum> maco: I've been given clarification. I don't think it's a UK vs. US, just a geek vs. non-geek
<exobuzz> sorry :). just copied from a forum..
<zerty> hi there
<zerty> i create a folder with chmod 777 on /var/www/folderx, i also create a new user :  user1
<zerty> the user1 can access to my server over ftp
<zerty> but he can't able to write anything on folderx ?
<zerty> what could be the problem ?
<popey> #uksnow gu14 2/10
<issyl0> AlanBell: thank you :)
<issyl0> AlanBell: and yes, a good day at college. Reasonably. Very snowy and we were only 2 in our computing class, however the teacher decided to do the lesson anyway.
<issyl0> That was hilarious. "Right then, let's start revising some boolean algebra." *looks around* we're alone.... :P
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: you: "True".
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: tsssk
<dutchie> i'd say we are up to about 7-8/10 #uksnow here
<dutchie> (WR4)
<zerty> hello
<zerty> anyone there ?
<popey> hello
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: too obvious? :)
<popey> zerty: you might have better luck in #ubuntu
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: mmm
<zerty> it is not ubuntu issue ?
<dwatkins> zerty: that sounds like an issue with the user the FTP daemon is running as or the login they are using, but the support channel is probably the best place to ask.
<davmor2> Oh snow and I hadn't even noticed
<zerty> support channel it isn't here ? dwatkins
<dwatkins> zerty: there's another channel, #ubuntu, this is more of a social channel, although we sometimes talk techical here too.
<Daviey> Who here has a webcam, flash and a few mins spare? :)
<Daviey> ideally a mic aswell
<Darael> Daviey: I guess I can spare a little time.
<zerty> and here the channel is just only for talking about UK news ?
<zerty> :)
<Pendulum> bigcalm: ^^
<popey> zerty: if nobody is willing or able to answer your question, maybe ask in #ubuntu or ##linux ?
<Azelphur> I broke chromes page sandboxing
<Azelphur> I had all open tabs crash all at the same time.
<ebeeb> hii all
<ebeeb> got some boot isuues.
<ebeeb> Live CD 10.10 did not installed the bootloader (GRUB?) so i cannot boot my machine.
<ebeeb> is there anyone who can help me?
<popey> ebeeb: you might want to try in #ubuntu - the support channel
<ebeeb> good idead!
<bigcalm> Pendulum: ?
<Pendulum> bigcalm: nevermind. we were going to invite you to test something but you're too late :(
<bigcalm> Boo!
<Pendulum> I'm so glad the newspaper has informed me of important things to know in the holiday season: http://www.courant.com/health/la-he-bmj-christmas-20101218,0,280495.story
<czajkowski> there are between 1 and 2K people waiting outside Terminal 3 in Heathrow trying to get in
<popey> :S
<popey> between one person and two thousand people?
<popey> thats quite a wide margin
<czajkowski> !K
<czajkowski> 1K
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> popey: I can at least laugh today at your sense of humour
<czajkowski> :)
<popey> :)
<popey> hey czajkowski come down for a podcast recording, forget heathrow, thats clearly for losers ;)
<dwatkins> Tweet from Dominos: Stranded at Gatwick? Watch out for Domino's. 500 slices are on their way with our compliments.
<Daviey> Narwhalian festivities http://i.imgur.com/zqnv9.jpg
<Daviey> 500 slices will last how many seconds?
<MartijnVdS> Daviey: 2
<MartijnVdS> assuming parallel delivery
<czajkowski> out of the 6 usa folks I'm sitting with, 2 just got their flights canceled
 * dwatkins wonders what Dominos are doing at Heathrow
<dwatkins> i.e. whether they are doing the same thing there
<MartijnVdS> Why are the London airports so much worse off than other snowed-in European airports? Bad preparation?
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: snow scares us.
 * dutchie ventures out with a dog
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: snow scares us as well -- barely any trains, 50kph limits @ motorways, one day of cancelled flights
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: but airports are almost completely "up" now
<Azelphur> :)
<MartijnVdS> People are calling for the head of the rail company and infrastructure company
<MartijnVdS> heads*
<MartijnVdS> ("There are no significant problems, we're running a standard snow schedule" -- later that day "Uh, sorry. 50% of our trains is broken because of molten bits getting into electric bits)
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> it's been melting down my way
<Azelphur> not all gone though
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: they "upgraded" all trains over the summer to be "snow-proof"
<MartijnVdS> That didn't work :)
<Azelphur> indeed
<kvarley> I have an Acer Aspire 6930G that is running 10.10 64bit and everything was working fine but now suddenly the wireless has stopped working. "Enable Wireless" in the nm-applet is greyed out and when I try using the wireless through terminal is mentions rf kill. RF kill reports that the wireless lan is hard blocked. How can I remove or bypass the lock?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: it's probably a button or switch on the laptop
<MartijnVdS> wifi on/off
<MartijnVdS> or "airplane mode"
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Yeah I thought that but for the life of me I cant see it. Do you think acer have schematics of their laptops explaining the keys and such?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: they have manuals that state this
<MartijnVdS> mine had a button the front
<MartijnVdS> others have a "Fn+function key" combination
<kvarley> Ok I will have a look for the manual. Thanks
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] FCC's Regulations for Net Neutrality - Good or Bad? - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/fccs-regulations-net-neutrality-good-or-bad
<kazade> can you guys all do me a favour?
<kazade> can you run "dig www.postgrad.com" and let me know the IP address? specifically if it's not 85.234.134.166
<popey> www.postgrad.com.63663	IN	A	85.234.134.166
<dogmatic69> kazade: http://pastebin.com/Umxqb4FU
<kvarley> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
<kvarley> www.postgrad.com.	83398	IN	A	46.51.190.111
<kazade> kvarley!
<kazade> can you visit www.postgrad.com and tell me if it works?
<kvarley> yes it works kazade
<kazade> thank christ
<kazade> :)
<dogmatic69> ninjacloak.com
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Can't find any mention of a shite :/
<kvarley> *switch
<kazade> thanks popey, dogmatic69
<czajkowski> kvarley: could you watch your language please
<kazade> I'm waiting for a DNS switch
<dogmatic69> np
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: look on the laptop :) anything?
<kvarley> czajkowski: Sorry, was a typo! :/
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: anything that looks like an antenna on a key/button?
<dogmatic69> funny typo
<kazade> kvarley, did it display a horrible website with a pink menu bar?
<kvarley> Yes
<kazade> yep, definitely working then
<kvarley> dogmatic69: Yhup - I don't know what my fingers are doing today
<kazade> home time, later guys
<NativeAngels> hello
<NativeAngels> anyone about ?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: FOUND IT! :) Thanks for the help
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: where was it?
<NativeAngels> can anyone help me with pcmcia setup on an old laptop
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Top of the keyboard there is a media control panel which is touch sensitive. I didn't realise that next time it there is an icon which is meant to be glowing orange for wireless to be on. When it's turned off it isn't illuminated so was hard to spot. The first time I tried it I dont think I held it long enough either.
<MartijnVdS> ah :)
<kvarley> NativeAngels: What pcmcia are you setting up? What issues are you having?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: You saved the day :)
<MartijnVdS> NativeAngels: most pcmcia should work out of the box
<NativeAngels> its a trendnet card
<NativeAngels> ive installed using ndiswrapper
<MartijnVdS> is it wireless?
<NativeAngels> when i do ndiswrapper -l i get driver present, hardware present
<NativeAngels> yes
<MartijnVdS> it could be a lost cause, with old stuff like pcmcia
<MartijnVdS> and unknownness like trendnet
<NativeAngels> it works on other versions of linux and other laptops
<NativeAngels> this is just a old piece of kit
<NativeAngels> when i do iwconfig all i get is lo no wireless extensions
<MartijnVdS> !ndiswrapper
<lubotu3> Wireless documentation, including how-to guides and troubleshooting information, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
<AlanBell> Pendulum: they look like ubuntinis in that article
<czajkowski> popey: you're missing from over there ------>
<kvarley> popey: I got drawn in and bought the Ubuntu Winterwarmers package. Hoodie + Cup. Got them today in the post, they are good. :)
<kvarley> Hhmmm. Ubuntu 10.10 64bit - In the USC I click on the "Install" button on any application and it doesn't do anything. I ran it from terminal and it churns out this message when I click the button: http://paste.ubuntu.com/546014/
<Phineas> hi all I have returned
<Nafallo> woho!
<Phineas> I am on my new mobile phone so forgive me as I am getting used to the keyboard
<davmor2> Phineas: No we'll flame you for every mistake you make typing on your new phone ;)
<alexcckll> Hi all..
 * bigcalm notices that minecraft server is currently off line. I wonder why
<andylockran> howdy all
<andylockran> czajkowski: how you doing?
<jacobw> hullo :)
 * jacobw is messing with weechat
<bigcalm> Sounds messy
<czajkowski> andylockran: still here
<Pendulum> czajkowski: the weather gods really don't like you, do they :-/
<popey> :(
<czajkowski> nope it would seem not
<kvarley> Minecraft beta, to buy or not to buy that is the question.
<czajkowski> feck sake all I want to do is go home to an Irish breakie, tea and sleep :(
<popey> kvarley: should have bought the alha :)
<popey> *alpha
<popey> czajkowski: listen to us :)
<popey> that'll cheer you up :)
<kvarley> popey: Was it cheaper?
<popey> yes
<popey> half price
<TheOpenSourcerer> It does seem rather surprising that the UK is having such a strong desire to hang to czajkowski and not let her leave. ;-)
<popey> nah, not surprising at all
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: ALAN!
<popey> we'll be burning her passport next
<czajkowski> I was on tv earlier on
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes my dear?
<kvarley> popey: I didn't realise they were doing another game so to speak. Is it a fun game?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: ALAN THERE IS NO DEAR !
<TheOpenSourcerer> Were you as eloquent as your compatriot Father Jack?
<czajkowski> I've been really good and spent most of the day online and working
<Daviey> FOOL!
 * AlanBell gets pinged by shouts of Alan
<TheOpenSourcerer> I keep thinking about going to the pub.
<jacobw> actually, weechat isn't a good idea seen as i don't actually have any problem with irssi
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just booked my trip to Belgium in Jan. Quite looking forward to it now.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: FOSDEM
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope. OpenERP training course.
<czajkowski> all the cool kids are going to FOSDEM
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've never been cool and am hardly a kid ;-)
<czajkowski> Aer Lingus regrets that Your Flight No: EI 0381 on 21 December 2010 at 1005 departing from LHR is cancelled
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> *sobs*
<TheOpenSourcerer> boat?
 * Pendulum hugs czajkowski 
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Have you looked at boats?
<czajkowski> doing it now
<TheOpenSourcerer> Off to put kiddies to bed.
<AlanBell> oh czajkowski /o\
<andylockran> hwody all
<bigcalm> Morning
<andylockran> czajkowski: if you can get to Manchester, I hereby offer you a lift to holyhead/birkenhead
<andylockran> though SJR will be paying petrol :)
<popey> /9/4
<popey> bah
<andylockran> 9 4 ?
<bigcalm> popey: is there going to be a live stream during recording tonight?
<Phineas> I have returned
<popey> yes
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live/
<andylockran> what time you starting
<andylockran>  between about 20:00 and 22:00 UK Time. K
<Phineas> popey, I see what you mean now
<popey> Phineas: what
<popey> ?
<popey> andylockran: not sure yet, just getting ready
<kvarley> popey: Can VLC open the icecast stream of uupc?
<Phineas> bye thats all
<popey> yes kvarley
<popey> when its up
<kvarley> popey: :) thanks
<czajkowski> andylockran: thanks
<andylockran> 4x4 and snowchains.. we'll get you out the country.
<daubers> czajkowski: How goes the boat hunting?
<andylockran> Â£26 from holyhead to dublin on Wednesday
<andylockran> oops, that;'s the 29th
<andylockran> on the 22nd, 10.00 for Â£26
<andylockran> Holyhead-Dun Laogh
<czajkowski> andylockran: yeah it's getting to holyhead is now my issue tbh
<daubers> czajkowski: Whats your nearest train station? Heathrow?
<czajkowski> aye I gues so ..
<andylockran> czajkowski: seriously - heathrow to Manchester
<andylockran> you're more than welcome
<czajkowski> andylockran: cheers
<czajkowski> just having a drink here so I can gather my thoughts ring the mothership with a plan
<czajkowski> as if she has to hear I'm not home again she may throw a wobbly
<daubers> Well.... the only issue on the rail network is some issues between coventry and birghiman
<daubers> birmingham
<daftykins> heh i first heard 'mothership' used by Fearne Cotton on Radio1, is it wider spread than that though? :>
<daftykins> also hi all :)
<andylockran> Â£70 train to Manchester/Birkenhead
<andylockran> Birkenhead to Dublin @ 10pm tomorrow Â£35
<bigcalm> Dated a lass from Birkenhead. Good times, so long ago
<czajkowski> ok
<daubers> Only about 3 and a half hours on that train too
<daubers> czajkowski: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ just in case you're not aware of it already (though I doubt that)
<daftykins> has anyone used VMware ESX/ESXi in large setups at all?
<mgdm> bigcalm: has Hayley appeared?
<bigcalm> mgdm: thankfully yes. I should have tweeted
<czajkowski> trains dont seem to run between Heathrow and Manchester..
<AlanBell> czajkowski: there is swansea-cork too
<czajkowski> oh true
<moreati> I thought trains to manchester ran from Euston
<AlanBell> http://book.fastnetline.com
<daubers> AlanBell: Is that running again now?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: there is one leaves at 8PM and is overnight, arrives 08:00
<AlanBell> daubers: yes
<AlanBell> Â£28 for a foot passenger, but you should get a cabin
<daubers> Hmmm... they where talking about that whil I was at Uni there
<czajkowski> AlanBell: got a link for that ???
<daubers> czajkowski: You'd then just need to get to paddington and jump the next train to swansea
<daubers> Take you between 2 and 3 hours iirc
<AlanBell> in fact you must have a cabin, which is Â£44
<nperry> daubers: paddington to swansea
<nperry> will take a bit longer
<nperry> as got to change at bristol
<AlanBell> http://www.fastnetline.com
<czajkowski> AlanBell: an you give me a direct link.. trying to get it and
<daubers> nperry: No, it's direct
<daubers> nperry: You go through bristol temple meads rather than through bristol itself
<czajkowski> ok so I'd just need to get to Paddington
<daubers> nperry: 3 and a bit hours
<bigcalm> Nice station that
<bigcalm> As far as London train stations go
<daubers> czajkowski: trains from paddington to swansea go more or less every hour until 22:45
<czajkowski> ok
<foo123> I'm trying to recover a CD with a crack in it, I've created an ISO image with dd
<foo123> oh.
<jacobw> that is better.
<daubers> czajkowski: Should be relativley easy tomorrow :) Even get a snooze on the train
<daubers> czajkowski: Also, I know the head signaller for that line, so if you get stuck let me know
<jacobw> Any suggestions on the next step/
<Apacheuk> hi all? is UUPC streaming live tonight?
<andylockran> yup
<Apacheuk> take it the stream isn't up yet
<moreati> Apacheuk: apparently yes http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live/
<moreati> (yes it's streaming, not yes it's up)
<Apacheuk> ok cheers
<popey> we're in pre-show
<popey> well technically recording a segment
<popey> you wont hear it in the live show
<DJones> "pre-show" ? Sounds like that should mean mince pies & a sherry or two
<AlanBell> speaking of mince pies and sherry . . .
<jacobw> hmm mince pies
<AlanBell> party tomorrow peeps
<AlanBell> czajkowski will be partying on the boat
<DJones> AlanBell: Boat back to Ireland for Christmas?
<czajkowski> Have a ferry got from Hollyhead to Dublin has been booked
<daubers> \o/
<DJones> czajkowski: Heh, With this weather and at this rate, you'll be able to walk/drive across a frozen sea
<czajkowski> lets not joke
<daubers> Woohoo! Foods time!
<moreati> Oh, reminds me I need to track down some mince to make pies
<DJones> czajkowski: Well, looking at the forecast for my area on BBC, the temperature in the next 24 hours for the Liverpool/Cheshire/North Wales area isn't supposed to rise above -7C (and thats now) it just gets colder down to -10/-11C during the daytime tomorrow
<marxjohnson> UUPC live stream will be starting at about half 8!
<paln> hey guys! right now ubuntu's clock applet says it's 0C where i am...
<paln> markjohnson: what's UUPC?
<davmor2> paln: lucky you
<DJones> !uupc
<davmor2> paln: -3 feels like -5.3
<DJones> Thought there was a factoid for that
<paln> "feels like -4.7"
<AlanBell> DJones: there was a channel specific one
<AlanBell> paln: it is the Ubuntu UK podcase
<AlanBell> paln: it is the Ubuntu UK podcast
<DJones> paln: Ubuntu UK podcast
<AlanBell> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org
<paln> ahh, thx AlanBell and DJones
<marxjohnson> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live
<paln> cool, will tune in, but for now...g2g!
<jacobw> hi LSEactuary
<LSEactuary> hi jacobw can you PM me please?
<TheOpenSourcerer> A lunar eclipse in the morning: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/dec/20/lunar-eclipse-winter-solstice
<LSEactuary> jacobw - can you help me please?
<jacobw> i can try :)
<LSEactuary> how do i burn stuff onto a DVD R using ubuntu
<LSEactuary> using gnomebaker
<jacobw> don't use gnomebaker
<LSEactuary> okay dont worry :)
<jacobw> use brasero, it is part of the default installation
<moreati> LSEactuary: does it need to be gnomebaker specifically? If so, why?
<jacobw> applications > sound & video > brasero
<LSEactuary> okay dont worry i think ive got it
<jacobw> what stuff are trying to burn? data or video
<jacobw> yeah :) i was just gonna say make sure you choose the right project type
<LSEactuary> dont worry its burning :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Dear internet - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/131342.html
<Phineas> I have returned
<Phineas> everyone is asleep I guess
<Phineas> just as I need help as well
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> ask away dear chap!
<Phineas> how do I receve pms in thus clinant
 * daftykins leans over and puts another coin in Phineas
<DJones> Perhaps if you give it longer than 1 minute between joining the channel and assuming people are asleep might be a good idea
<daftykins> which client is that?
<Phineas> fIRC
<Phineas> for android
<jacobw> ITIL.. now i've heard of that
<DJones> Phineas: Perhaps there's an Android channel, or maybe the xda forums would be able to help
<Phineas> I know /msg works for sending pms but how do I receve them
<Phineas> that is the question
<Phineas> I don't know of any android channels
<DJones> Have you asked in #freenode, thats the network admin channel
<Phineas> except an android chat channel
<LSEactuary> im trying to boot my computer with a windows CD but it just keeps restarting in ubutnu rather then starting with the CD
<Phineas> why didn't Perry think of that
<DJones> LSEactuary: Sounds like you're bios is set to boot from your first hard drive rather than cd first, you probably need to go into your bios settings at boot up & change the boot order
<LSEactuary> its a CD first. btw should that CD have an ISO file only? i think this CD has 2 folders! :(
<Phineas> what does url stand for?
<jacobw> uniform resource locator
<Phineas> thats something I've just lernt
<LSEactuary> im deleting stuff off my USB but there never seems to be enough space. this is stupid. how do i fix this?
<LSEactuary> its a 500MB folder but theres at least 1GB free on the USB
<niall> LSEactuary, double check that the folder is in fact 500MB. Run a filesystem check on the USB device.
<LSEactuary> how? i right clicked and press propertires - the folder is 585 MB.
<Phineas> I worked it out
<LSEactuary> btw to run a programme from a CD do you need to burn the ISO or is the folder with the ISO in it enough?
<MartijnVdS> LSEactuary: what's the problem you're trying to solve?
<DJones> LSEactuary: It depends on the isco & the instructions, if its an UBuntu CD you burn the iso which creates the filesystem
<niall> LSEactuary,  Ah okay, well goto System > Administration > Disk Utility and select the USB device and partition you're interested in, then click the button about filesystem checking.
<Phineas>  what utility
<LSEactuary> i dont get what im looking for
<niall> Phineas, K3b, brasero, cdrecord..
<LSEactuary> and how do i burn an ISO with gnomebaker - will the computer run it once burnt
<niall> LSEactuary, are you by any chance trying to make a bootable USB by copying a folder onto it?
<LSEactuary> nope
<LSEactuary> 2 different things
<LSEactuary> i want to copy my files onto my USB but its not allowing me
<LSEactuary> and there is enough space.
<niall> Just checking. I like to concentrate on one thing at a time when I don't know what I'm doing ;)
<LSEactuary> but not accoring to ubuntu
<LSEactuary> lol
<niall> What filesystem is on the USB?
<Phineas> is my laptops disk drive ment to be loud
<jacobw> no
<niall> Is it a single FAT32 partition? Two NTFS? Three ext3?
<niall> Phineas, it definitely shouldn't be clicking, that's for sure.
<Phineas> its just humming loudly
<Phineas> when a disk is inserted,
<Phineas> is this normal?
<LSEactuary> i have no idea - can we do the disc burning stuff first?
<Phineas> or do I need to do something
<LSEactuary> i have an ISO file in a folder - if i burn the ISO and restart the computer with it in will the computer boot with the CD?
<LSEactuary> what happens if i burn the whole folder (the ISO in the folder)
<niall> You don't burn a data disk with the ISO file on it.
<LSEactuary> a DVD-R
<niall> The ISO file is expanded to BE the filesystem on the disc.. it works quite differently.
 * Phineas holds the line until someone becomes avalibule
<LSEactuary> so what do i do?
<LSEactuary> how do i get it on the disc
<niall> LSEactuary, Are you using Ubuntu 10.x?
<LSEactuary> yes
<LSEactuary> gnomebaker right?
<LSEactuary> data DVD?
<niall> 'Burn Image' option in whatever you're using.. I'm on 10.10 and it comes with Brasero by default.
<LSEactuary> can i use brasero?
<niall> Yes.
<LSEactuary> i have that too - please guide me throguh...
<niall> Bottom left button 'Burn existing CD/DVD image to disk'... then go find your image.
<Phineas> anyone avalibule yet?
<LSEactuary> as in my ISO file?
<LSEactuary> and the computer will boot from that CD once its burnt?
<DJones> LSEactuary: As I said earlier, it depends on the ISO and its creator, if its an Ubuntu iso, it will be bootable & you just brun the image to disk, if its not, you need to check with the iso's creator/website to see what they say about it
<niall> Dead simple. It should autodetect the blank disk and select an appropriate write speed. Tip for you: selecting a slower speed will give a better burn.
<LSEactuary> okay ive just put the disc in.... im waiting for something to come up
<LSEactuary> how do i know if its a ubuntu iso?
<niall> Did you open Brasero and select the Burn image... button?
<Phineas> would be you inserted a blank disk
<niall> What are you trying to burn anyway?
<LSEactuary> im still waiting for something to load...
<LSEactuary> a DVD programme
<LSEactuary> i started brasero but its just turning off!
<niall> So you downloaded some software via bittorrent and you want to burn it to a CD?
<LSEactuary> yep
<niall> Well of course it won't boot.
<LSEactuary> oh
<LSEactuary> i was told if i burn it via gnomebaker it will
<niall> It's software for playing DVDs or somesuch from INSIDE OF an operating system?
<niall> It would help if you could SPECIFY what the software is.
<LSEactuary> i ont get what you mean. its a DVd programme that will customise menus and burn DVDS so i can record my home movies
<niall> Right.
<niall> Software.. an application
<LSEactuary> can we have a private chat please/
<niall> To be run inside of... whatever operating system it's compatible with (Linux, Windows, Mac OS..)
<Phineas> what is the name of the differed?
<Phineas> softwere
<LSEactuary> niall please PM me
<niall> LSEactuary, what is the name of this 'DVD programme'?
<LSEactuary> please PM me and ill tell you
<Phineas> thats what I said
<niall> heh, software piracy is best kept in private..
<LSEactuary> lol
<MartijnVdS> !piracy
<lubotu3> piracy discussion and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o
<LSEactuary> niall please pM me
<niall> MartijnVdS++
<LSEactuary> if you decide you dont want to help then thats fine
<DJones> LSEactuary: Assuming its an Ubuntu program, just install it from the software repository
<LSEactuary> just hear me out
<LSEactuary> its not a ubuntu programme - i downloaded it off bitorrent.
<Phineas> piracy defrently
<DJones> LSEactuary: If its a windows package, ask in ##windows
<LSEactuary> ##windos
<niall> LSEactuary, You need more help than I can give. I suggest that if you want to learn about ISO images and how to burn them or indeed mount them without burning them, you use Google and Wikipedia to get a grounding in the matter. All the info you need is out there, in baby-step form. Go and make use of that.
<DJones> if its a pirate copy, please don't ask in this channel
<LSEactuary> oh one sec - ive got bassero open. just tell me what option i should pick
<LSEactuary> burn image?
<niall> Troll, folks?
<LSEactuary> just help me pick an option and ill log off
<Phineas> yep troll
<LSEactuary> what the heck. im asking for help
<niall> LSEactuary, last time... Brasero > bottom left button, burn existing image to disk > click on the file, select burner drive and speed, burn!
<Phineas> get rid of the troll
<LSEactuary> okay thanks!
<Phineas> now go away
<LSEactuary> done
<LSEactuary> sorry - how long does the ISO take to burn? its saying 'creating image checksum' and its been there for a while
<LSEactuary> the organge bar is moving back and forth but i dont think anythings happening
<AlanBell> LSEactuary: it can take a long time, a CD is quite big, DVD even bigger
<LSEactuary> okay roughly?
<AlanBell> please do not ask people to engage in private messages about this
<AlanBell> dunno how long it would take, I don't know how much data you are trying to burn
<DJones> LSEactuary: We don't know what the iso is, how big it is or what the software is, so we can't answer the question
<AlanBell> give it an hour
<AlanBell> if you are unwilling to reveal what the content is then we are likely to suspect you are asking for help relating to piracy, which we don't give
<DJones> Or ask the software producer how long it will take to burn the downloaded bit torrent iso to dvd?
<LSEactuary> its a DVD programme - sonic dvd media
<DJones> I'm sure they'll be willing to help
<LSEactuary> its about 3.5 gb
<LSEactuary> okay ill give it time.
<LSEactuary> my ISO file has been burning for a while now  about 1/2 hr. its still saying creating image checksum and the organge bar is moving right and left. is there a way of checking this is working an not just wasting electricity?
<Darael> LSEactuary: Install and run htop and see if a suitable-looking process is using CPU time?
<Darael> LSEactuary: Or just use top.  I just prefer htop.
<LSEactuary> how do install that?
<LSEactuary> and how long will it take to burn a 3.5 GB ISO on a DVD R
<LSEactuary> oh ive installed it but what am i looking for?
<LSEactuary> a bunch of random numbers and works have come up
<LSEactuary> .....
<LSEactuary> darael....
<Darael> LSEactuary: Sorry, got sidelined in #ubuntu.
<LSEactuary> no worries
<LSEactuary> so what do i look for - ive got it open
<Darael> LSEactuary: You want to check the commands that are using lots of CPU time and see if any of them look appropriate - the CD burner in Ubuntu is "brasero"
<LSEactuary> /usr/bin/X ;o -nr -verbose -auth /var/run/gdm/auth-for-gdm-gaZZi is taking up 7
<LSEactuary> xtop is taking up 3
<LSEactuary> htop =  2
<LSEactuary> basero - 1
<LSEactuary> eveything else is 0.2, 0.1 or 0
<LSEactuary> actually everything else is 0
<Darael> LSEactuary: Right.  In the s column, what letter does Brasero have?
<LSEactuary> S
<Darael> Right, sounds like it's not doing anything, then.
<LSEactuary> the only R is htop
<LSEactuary> okay can i fix it?
<Darael> That I can't help you with, sorry.
<LSEactuary> okay do you know how i can burn an ISO onto a DVD-R then?
<LSEactuary> ?
<moreati> LSEactuary: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto#Ubuntu
<LSEactuary> umm what programme do i use?
<X3N> It says on the instructions linked to above ^
<LSEactuary> okay ill try
<Darael> LSEactuary: gnomebaker, nautilus-cd-burner or k3b will all do the job, as will burn.  Reading the wiki page is advised, however.
<Darael> ...oh.
<jacobw> actuary indeed
<LSEactuary> okay its creating an image checksum
<LSEactuary> starting to record ! woo hoo!
<LSEactuary> okay its burning now! thanks sooooooooo much
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> hmm, internet appears to have bombed out here
<danfish> err, andylockran: if that's the case, how come you're still on IRC?
<andylockran> danfish: just DNS
<andylockran> tht was my test
<andylockran>  :P
<danfish> andylockran: fairynuff :)
<LSEactuary> ive burnt the ISO but i resterted the computer and its not booting it
<LSEactuary> my boot menu is set to the CD/DVd first
<AlanBell> is it a bootable DVD?
<AlanBell> does a known working bootable CD work?
<popey> evening
<bigcalm> Morning popey
 * AlanBell checks trains for http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/568/detail/
<directhex> blarg
<Pendulum> AlanBell: good luck
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> lo czajkowski
<popey> where you at?
<czajkowski> Euston
<czajkowski> on my way to Wolverhampton
<popey> !
<czajkowski> there are 2 bottles of JD with my name on it when I get to Limerick
<czajkowski> this is keeping me going
<popey> why wolves?
<czajkowski> only way to get me to holyhead
<popey> wow
<czajkowski> stopping there and getting a direct train from there to holyhead for 12 o'clock ferry
<czajkowski> FAULTY Towers! this is my life!
<czajkowski> What can go wrong goes wrong ! with added colour! :)
<popey> got somewhere to stay in wolves?
 * AlanBell doesn't much like this plan
<czajkowski> nope not even gonna try tb
<czajkowski> AlanBell: stop being a dad
<czajkowski> popey: I get in at 2 and leave again at 6
<Pendulum> czajkowski: only 2 bottles?
<czajkowski> so far!
<Darael> popey: Hopefully nobody will actually end up staying in wolves - but they're extinct in this country, aren't they?  ...phew.
<gord> geeez, what a trip
<czajkowski> aye
<popey> LHR still closed even though no snow fell today?
<popey> or did it?
<gord> i'm sure i'll wake up tomorrow to you saying "hello from france! just a few more detours and i'll be home"
<czajkowski> popey: 7 flights left yesterday 50 today. but its's snowing now and -8 there.
<czajkowski> they were evacuating everyone out of the terminals tonight and booking them into hotels into conference centers
<czajkowski> as the place was freezing and again running low on food
<popey> :(
<czajkowski> gord: do not jinx me!
<AlanBell> if it is open, this is your hotel czajkowski http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/WVH/objectvalues/3498-0000114.html
<czajkowski> AlanBell: thanks
<Pendulum> czajkowski: how're you getting home once you're in Ireland?
<czajkowski> in theory (lets not goi jinxing myself) I get into Dublin at 4 tomorrow
<czajkowski> I may go to Yvonnies and sleep
<czajkowski> or um get next train/bus directly to Castleconnell
<czajkowski> and drink
<czajkowski> gord: what is stepehen Lang surname in canonical works on launchpad
<czajkowski> lang soemthing
<Pendulum> czajkowski: ah. wasn't sure how it was happening due to their snow :-/
 * Pendulum crosses fingers that czajkowski gets home okay!
<czajkowski> snow in airport...
<czajkowski> hoping the rest of the place is ok, they had a few blackouts today with electricity
<czajkowski> dad was so worried over me travelling today, he even said not to come hom
<czajkowski> and the mothership agreed
<czajkowski> I was going to be damed if I was going to be bbeaten by the snow for ruining my xmas
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] Guest Post: Laura MacPhee on the Canonical Contributor Agreement - http://philbull.livejournal.com/57630.html
<czajkowski> *yawns*
<popey> czajkowski: when is your train?
 * AlanBell ponders going to bed vs going to Euston then Holyhead
<czajkowski> I'm sure in a few days I will laugh about this
<czajkowski> should be going... soon
<AlanBell> good luck
 * AlanBell puts down the car keys
<czajkowski> what else could possibly go wrong
<mgdm> ssh
<mgdm> by that I mean, "sssh!"
<czajkowski> hmm wonder am I on the right train
<popey> o_O
<czajkowski> train not moving and should have 8 mins ago
<czajkowski> ok there is no driver
<czajkowski> or he's not here
<czajkowski> but it will go soon
<popey> phew
<exobuzz> morning
<czajkowski> yeah I was working out what way to gather bags and run somehwere
<czajkowski> popey: how was recording
<czajkowski> I am dertermined to make it in the new year!
<czajkowski> pending me getting back :p
<popey> czajkowski: fun
<czajkowski> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-21
<czajkowski> hmm
<dutchie> czajkowski: moving yet?
<czajkowski> nope
<dutchie> :(
<directhex> blarg
<czajkowski> yarp
<Pendulum> czajkowski: remind me never to be on a flight or train with you :P
<hamitron> !mpd
<czajkowski> Pendulum: :(
<czajkowski> still here
<czajkowski> no driver
 * Pendulum hugs czajkowski 
<czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/12/21/crazy-few-days/
<daftykins> czajkowski: are you stuck on a non-moving train?
<czajkowski> yup
<daftykins> erk
<daftykins> i wish you will with that
<czajkowski> whooo we're off
<Pendulum> yay!
<popey> \o/
<czajkowski> means less wait I guess at wolve
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Crazy few days - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/12/21/crazy-few-days/
<AlanBell> czajkowski: enjoying the train #2 now?
<JohnRobert> anyone here know if rdiff-backup understands file renames and duplicate files when transferring?
<daubers> Morning
<JohnRobert> also, does anyone know if it hard links files on the backup side to save space?
<Apacheuk> morning everyone
<JohnRobert> it's evening here
<JohnRobert> :p
<AlanBell> party tonight folks
<AlanBell> JohnRobert: I don't think it does understand renames and duplicates, it just does diffs at file level. Don't think it does any hard link specialness either
<daubers> AlanBell: Indeedy, just need to hope the trains are running this evening
<AlanBell> south west trains have shut some branch lines, but the service doesn't look too bad really
<daubers> some delays on great western
<daubers> and some cancellations, but not too bad....
<daubers> will have to remember to startup latitude when I leave work
<bigcalm> Morning :)
<diplo> Morning
<bigcalm> Lively morning
<daubers> indoodly
 * bigcalm feels like napping
 * bigcalm doesn't feel like writing emails all morning
<_H> my clock skips 2 seconds every 3
<_H> :/
<dwatkins> _H: your computer clock goes out that badly?
<_H> yeah
<_H> 34 from 32
<dwatkins> Sounds like you need to replace your motherboard, unless it's not something that shows-up under other operating systems.
<dwatkins> So after 6 minutes of correcting the clock, it's 2 minutes fast?
<dwatkins> I mean 6 minues after correcting the clock, it's 2 minutes fast?
<Phineas> I have returned
<_H> dwatkins: it may have been ruined by the power surges
<dwatkins> _H: may have? are you suggesting this problem started after a power surge?
<dwatkins> hiya Phineas
<diplo> _H, could see what the hardware clock says ? sudo hwclock
<_H> dwatkins: had the fuse board replaeced new cicet breaker
<dwatkins> diplo has a very good point
<_H> Tue 21 Dec 2010 09:06:33 AM GMT  -0.048183 seconds
<dwatkins> When did you last correct the clock, _H?
<_H> never
<_H> its the correct time
<dwatkins> So it's the OS?
<_H> it just goes 1 2 3 6 7 8 9.....
<_H> etc
<dwatkins> What does?
<bigcalm> It has a fear of four
<_H> the seconds on the clock
<bigcalm> Oh and five
<popey> ahhh
 * popey has just realised _H is switchgirl
<_H> slow....
<_H> :)
<_H> lol
<dwatkins> So, the hardware clock is always right, but the software clock doesn't like 4s and 5s? Sounds like a software problem to me.
<popey> :)
<dwatkins> Did you check it in another OS, _H?
<Phineas_> my cork is always right
<Phineas_> clock sorry
<_H> ubuntu100%
<dwatkins> Phineas_: I was wondering where you were going with that.
<Phineas_> yeah that was my phones fult. tryes to correct what I say. it could have been worse
<Phineas_> CEARSE YOU PREDICTIVE TEXT
<popey> Not sure there are any phones that would autocorrect to cock?
<Phineas_> mine Conew up with crock clock and cock
<bigcalm> You have a dirty mind, popey. Nobody else was thinking about that word :)
<Phineas_> once again epic fail
<popey> did I tell you about the time sophie said that word?
<popey> i was sat on the sofa and heard her coming down the stairs.
<bigcalm> -a-doodle-doo?
<popey> ah, i did
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> No, I was just guessing
<popey> oh :)
<bigcalm> Your kids are too sweet and innocent for anything else
<popey> haha
<AlanBell> popey: I still remember my eldest announcing at the dinner table with guests that she would like a fork like everyone else and not just a spoon
<AlanBell> only she didn't say fork
<popey> :)
<Phineas_> I had a time where I kept on misshereing the word clock
<popey> kids say the darndest things
<rickogden> I think I might have just joined the channel at the most inappropriate time...
<rickogden> (hi btw)
<AlanBell> hi rickogden
<Phineas_> darndest???
<bigcalm> AlanBell: awww
<bigcalm> czajkowski is on a boat!
<bigcalm> Wonder where she'll end up
<Phineas_> I got told of at school for yelling the word bucket
<bigcalm> Why did you yell bucket?
<Phineas_> well I said it loudly
<Phineas_> and got in trouble for swareing.
<bigcalm> I like saying "oh fishsticks". Not swearing and also tasty
<Phineas_> I tend to say.  oh biscuits or oh crap
<bigcalm> Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany way
<Phineas_> thats what I say when I want to move on the subject
<bigcalm> That's very astute of you
<Phineas_> what
<Phineas_> astute???
<Phineas_> auto caps activated
<popey> mmmmm fishsticks
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
<bigcalm> Heh
<Phineas_> *drool* fishsticks
<Phineas_> I keep thinking popey is pronounced poppy.
<bigcalm> What makes you think that?
<Phineas_> my brain
<MooDoo> Phineas_: next you'll be thinking it's poopy
<exobuzz> nice ubuntu discussion going on as usual on the channel ;-)
<Phineas_> that is also what I call him when I am in a mood
<Phineas_> but that only happened once
<Phineas_> how it is actually pronounced
<MooDoo> poh-pee as phonestics would sound
<Phineas_> of corse Alan Pope = popey
<Phineas_> I get it. I think my brain is half asleep today
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: how are you mate
<davmor2> MooDoo: Nakered Moving house and trying to get it in some sort of shape for Xmas is no fun
<MooDoo> davmor2: ouch, i've even given up prodding czajkowski as it sounds like she's not having a good time of it
<davmor2> MooDoo: On a plus side I got away without a visit from czajkowski at 4 am so every cloud has a silver lining :D
<Phineas_> love x mas, love. live perks here you screen now
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol, i'm sure she would of loved to come visit as it's got to be better than the floor where she slept the other night
<Phineas_> cerse you predictive text. EPIC FAIL
<MooDoo> i hate the term xmas, it's christmas :D
<dwatkins> MooDoo: a happy merry non-denominational festive season to you
<MooDoo> dwatkins: at to you kind person :D
<Phineas_> its xmas soon
<daubers> Hah!
<daubers> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/20/assange_lawyers_angry_over_leaked_police_files/ <- Irony at it's greatest
<MooDoo> xmas is coz your too lazy to type christmas :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: Christmax?
<MooDoo> bah humbug :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Why you barring Hamburg what did it do, it was sat in the corner being all quiet and you go and bah it :)
<diplo> MooDoo, been around since 1551 apparently so it's not going away
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm a pig and need to vent, so i vented at the poor hamburg in the corner
<davmor2> MooDoo: And where's czajkowski when you need to let off steam nowhere to be found, that or on a train crawling through Welsh Wales
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm cutting her some slack until she gets to ireland, then i'm giving it to her with both barrels
<daubers> davmor2: Waiting for a boat I believe
<daubers> davmor2: She's like a TCP packet, still hopping around routing around the damage
<MooDoo> czajkowski: needs to get there and quick, this abuse can't wait forever
<davmor2> daubers: Hahahahaha!
<exobuzz> daubers, although it isnt quite the same.
<daubers> exobuzz: No, but close enough :)
<exobuzz> daubers, an individual is the same as an elected government ?
<exobuzz> but anyway.. interesting read.
<daubers> exobuzz: If they're a dictator who rigs the votes every year....
<exobuzz> :)
<Phineas_> who farted
<exobuzz> im thinking about this thing in london tonight
<daubers> exobuzz: All the cool kids are there
<exobuzz> but also thinking about he chances of them cancelling my train home.
<daubers> exobuzz: Which station you coming back too
<exobuzz> didcot
<exobuzz> tis 45 mins to paddington
<daubers> You come through my neck of the woods on your way
 * exobuzz will have a nap and consider it :)
<Phineas_> I didn't sleep much last night . watch kept ticking
<Phineas_> and keeping me awake
<exobuzz> daubers, which is your neck of the woods ?
<davmor2> MooDoo: I think it's a proper pain in the arse for people when stuff don't go right round Christmas.  So I'm wishing czajkowski a safe journey and I'll rag her rotten when her gets back and has a sore head from all the alcohol (Because I'm EVIL!!!)#
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes, thoughts are with her, yes that's you czajkowski
<Phineas_> my coffee ran out
<exobuzz> daubers, which is your neck of the woods ? not sure if you saw that. split ?
<daubers_> exobuzz: Reading
<daubers> Thats better
<Phineas> thats better
<popey> AlanBell: what train you going on?
<Phineas> whats the linux that goes woof woof
<Phineas> on startup?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Surely you mean yap yap (Puppy Linux of course)/
<bigcalm> I was thinking of Yellow Dog
<bigcalm> Doubt it's still going though
<Phineas> of corse puppy linux
<bigcalm> ydl.net how wrong can I be?
<Phineas> what does http stand for
<maco> hypertext transfer protocol
<Phineas> whats hypertext
<MooDoo> Phineas: html
<maco> webpagey data
<maco> html = hypertext markup language
<bigcalm> Phineas: are we doing your homework for you?
<MooDoo> lol
<Phineas> bigcalm, no its not home work.
<Phineas> whats a protocol
<MooDoo> Phineas: go look it up on google
<AlanBell> popey: probably 15:59 from Farnham
<bigcalm> Good greif
 * daubers makes a list of people he owes drinks/cake too
<bigcalm> Phineas: you need to spend some time on Wikipedia
<maco> Phineas: type "dict protocol" in your terminal
<Phineas> I am not on a computer right now
<maco> walk to the library and get a dictionary?
<Phineas> in not at the library
<Phineas> I am
<Phineas> I am in bed wondering what to do. I only have a French dictionary
<bigcalm> Phineas: how are you using irc?
<Phineas> my new mobile phone
<bigcalm> Does your new mobile phone have a web browser?
<dwatkins> Phineas: it means 'procedure'
<Phineas> yes it does have a web browser and irc and msn and Facebook chat
<bigcalm> Phineas: then you can use the web browser to reach wikipedia.org
<Phineas> I could do
<dwatkins> or google translate
<bigcalm> dwatkins: heh
<exobuzz> daubers, aah nice.. go to reading quite often!
<Phineas> I might just use the web bowser in a sec
<exobuzz> daubers, not only for the pound shops and cheap pubs :)
<Phineas> the 99 cent shops are good. got myself a new mug for my morning coffee
<MooDoo> Phineas: you in the US?
<Phineas> err nope
<MooDoo> Phineas: then it's 99p :) lol
<MooDoo> i'm teasing :D
<daubers> exobuzz: heh
<Phineas> I love my 99 cent mug with Garfield on it
<bigcalm> My VNC has a santa hat on it. How silly
<MooDoo> what's a 99cent mug?
<bigcalm> cl?
<Phineas> a mug that cost 99 cents
<MooDoo> Phineas: ah you got that from the US then?
<bigcalm> MooDoo: or 0.99 eur
<MooDoo> bigcalm: just wondering as in this country we use pence :D
<exobuzz> i use groats
<bigcalm> MooDoo: I know we do. But the US is not the only country to use cents
<MooDoo> bigcalm: aye there is that.
<exobuzz> bigcalm, presents arrived! ;-)
<MooDoo> exobuzz: i use drognas
<bigcalm> exobuzz: hazar!
<exobuzz> MooDoo, what currency is that from ? :)
<daubers> If you had between Â£50 and Â£100 to spend on some podcasting kit... what would you buy?
<MooDoo> exobuzz: lol an 80's tv show called the adventure game
<exobuzz> MooDoo, aah!!! i rememebr it
 * bigcalm scratches his head
<bigcalm> Which channel was that on?
<MooDoo> exobuzz: doog yrev
<exobuzz> i looked up the screenshots and i saw the triangle grid thing. damn. i had forgotten all about that show
<exobuzz> awesome
<MooDoo> bigcalm: bigcalm bbc i think
<MooDoo> exobuzz: the aspidistra plant and i think you're referring to the vortex :D
<exobuzz> the vortex!!
 * exobuzz gets all nostalgic
<exobuzz> must download
<bigcalm> Oh, that show
<exobuzz> downloading s01e01 now :)
<MooDoo> lol :)
 * exobuzz thanks thebox.bz
<Phineas> nope I got the mug in the town which I love near
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Playing system sounds from Python programs on Ubuntu - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2010/12/21/playing-system-sounds-from-python-programs-on-ubuntu
<exobuzz> Phineas, near ?
<MooDoo> Phineas: so they sell stuff using cents?
<exobuzz> hehe
<Phineas> yeah cents and dollars thats the currency here
<MooDoo> Phineas: so where are you then?  just curious as i'm getting more confused by the minute lol
 * exobuzz also downloads starcade (american tv series)  - had these before but lost em. just like watching people playing arcade games really badly!
<MooDoo> exobuzz: you also need starfleet and terrahawks :D
<exobuzz> MooDoo, got starfleet. and the cover by brian may ;-)
<Phineas> Danville (not the place in the us)
<exobuzz> need terrahawks.. loved that too
<exobuzz> goddam the 1980s were great.
<MooDoo> Phineas: never heard of it :D
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTBDjhLXtUc
<popey> very HHGTTG
<MooDoo> exobuzz: have you seen this? http://www.tvcream.co.uk/
<exobuzz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExC6OEQazrc
<exobuzz> aaah
<exobuzz> MooDoo, not sure. will check thanks!
<popey> awww I loved star fleet
<dutchie> JohnRobert: if you want backup hardlinking, check out rsnapshot
<dutchie> daubers: is there a dauberscast in the pipeline? :)
<exobuzz> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Fleet-Complete-DVD/dp/B00171EE9E .. tempted..
<exobuzz> i got low quality vhs rips
<exobuzz> it wasnt available on dvd for ages.
<exobuzz> oh no terrahawk on dvd and dungeons and dragons.. im going to be skint.
<exobuzz> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dungeons-Dragons-Complete-Animated-DVD/dp/B000198AKC/ref=pd_cp_d_h__2 Â£7.99!
<exobuzz> </spam>
<Phineas> anyone know where to get old game consoles at low prices
<exobuzz> car boot sales
<Phineas> to cold
<exobuzz> online auctions and classifieds
<daubers> dutchie: Unlikely, helping a friend out
<Phineas> like?
<daubers> dutchie: Also very un-Ubuntu related
 * exobuzz uses rdiff-backup for backups (push backup with compressed diffs)
<Phineas> what sites
<exobuzz> Phineas, ask google :)
<exobuzz> if you are in usa, then perhaps craigslist ? and then ebay. and so on
<daubers> dutchie: Looked at something like http://www.amazon.co.uk/BEHRINGER-PODCASTSTUDIO-USB-COMPLETE-P/dp/B000PARIZU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292931381&sr=8-1 but think it's the wrong kind of mic for a group of people really
<exobuzz> MooDoo, http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/ubuntu-uk/Brian%20May%20and%20Friends%20-%20Star%20Fleet.mpg
<exobuzz> MooDoo, not great quality, but its very hard to find this music video :)
<MooDoo> awesome
<exobuzz> i have audio only at better quality if you wanted it
<MooDoo> exobuzz: i'm sure i could find it, but thanks any way :D
<exobuzz> k
<dutchie> AlanBell: nice email about christmas party :)
<dutchie> shame i'm just a bit too far
<popey> awww that Star Fleet brings back memories
<kvarley> Great start to the morning - Music and Coffee in my Ubuntu mug. :)
<gord> a musical ubuntu mug sounds like a wonderful product
 * MooDoo is wearing his maverick t-shirt
 * davmor2 is wearing his warm t-shirt
<directhex_> blaaaarg
 * exobuzz is naked
<exobuzz> sat alone, fiddling with my joggler
 * BigRedS bemoans the problems of googling for something *after* having posted to a mailing list about it
 * popey notes directhex_ has gone from blarg to blarg to blaaarg
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's the snow & cold
<bigcalm> exobuzz: is that what you call it now?
<davmor2> man you forget what a catch tune centerfold is
<X3N> mooo
<Darael> baaa?
<X3N> What's the difference between the gpl dependant version of roundcube and not?
<X3N> http://roundcube.net/download
<Darael> X3N: As the description says.  The GPL (dep) packages won't run without installing some other things, but contain only GPL sources.
<X3N> seems odd
<Phineas> i have returned on my laptop
<MooDoo> Phineas_: search on google ;)
<Phineas_> MooDoo,  for what
<MooDoo> Phineas_: nothing i was joking matey :D
<Phineas_> oh i see
<Phineas_> MooDoo,  you always joke
<MooDoo> Phineas: i'm a jokey person
<Phineas> the final edit of my song sounds good
<Phineas> which is good
<Phineas> MooDoo,  i have notaced
<bigcalm> popey: that 4 port hub just arrived
<bigcalm> Not sure what to do with it now though
<popey> bigcalm: what was it for?
<popey> joggler?
<bigcalm> Yep
<popey> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Very funny digital story of the nativity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkHNNPM7pJA
<bigcalm> Wish there was a way to unfollow somebody's tweets for a while
<bigcalm> Without removing them
<popey> write a twitter client that does it?
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> Hah
<bigcalm> I use the web interface
 * popey wonders where czajkowski is 
<popey> half way down a bottle of JD hopefully
<bigcalm> Dublin ;)
 * popey checks latitude
<bigcalm> Just tweeted
<popey> haha, latitude has her in the sea
<bigcalm> Heh
 * Phineas makes everyone hot cocoa
 * AlanBell installs rhythmbox on the OLPC
<Phineas> how do i make my own  os?
<AlanBell> if you have to ask, you don't need to know
<Darael> Phineas: Slowly and with difficulty.
<MooDoo> Phineas: don't even go there :) lol
<Phineas> i feel like making one
<bigcalm> Phineas: good luck with that
<MooDoo> Phineas: errr ok :D
<Darael> Phineas: Why not do LFS first?
<Phineas> lfs?
<Darael> Linux From Scratch.
<Phineas> how?
<MooDoo> Phineas: do your own ubuntu spin like !# did
<MooDoo> Phineas: google it
<MooDoo> sigh
<Phineas> don't sigh its depressing
<Phineas> google what?
<MooDoo> Phineas: sorry, but you do really need to go work things out for yourself :D
<popey> !lfs
<lubotu3> LFS is linux from scratch www.linuxfromscratch.org; not to be confused with  LTS which is the long term support version of ubuntu (6.06 and 8.04)
<Darael> Hmm, that factoid needs an update.
<bigcalm> Just add an "eg:", will make it less out of date
<MooDoo> Phineas: as an example - http://fixunix.com/linux/546152-reconstructor-create-your-personal-ubuntu-spin-off.html
<popey> I spy a cat
<popey> http://popey.com/webcam/
<MooDoo> Phineas: forget that, it contains dead links
<bigcalm> popey: yours?
<popey> no
<bigcalm> Somebody shot it!
<MooDoo> popey: nice snow man, lasted longer than ours
<popey> heh
<kvarley> popey: How often does that page update?
<popey> yeah, its been there a while
<popey> as and when the picture changes
<daubers> Ah, dinner time
<kvarley> popey: What software are you running to do that? (I'm hooked)
<dutchie> !lfs is <reply>LFS is Linux From Scratch (www.linuxfromscratch.org) - not to be confused with LTS, which is the long term support release of Ubuntu (currently 6.06, 8.04 and 10.04)
<MooDoo> kvarley: check the planet, he did a post about it
<kvarley> MooDoo: The planet?
<MooDoo> planet.ubuntu-uk.org
<bigcalm> dutchie: whoops?
<kvarley> MooDoo: Thanks
<popey> kvarley: http://popey.com/blog/2010/12/20/my-ubuntu-webcam-setup/
<dutchie> bigcalm: no, just updating it
<bigcalm> Ignore me
<kvarley> popey: Thanks
<MooDoo> yeah what popey said :D
<dutchie> probably would have been better to do in /query really
<Phineas> is there an easy way?
<popey> Phineas: easy way to do what?
<Phineas> create an os
<popey> no
<popey> dont do it
<MooDoo> Phineas: do you know how to program?
<popey> look at LFS
<Phineas> MooDoo,  nope
<dutchie> well, there is uck, but that's not really creating your own os
<dutchie> !uck
<lubotu3> UCK is a tool that helps you customise official Ubuntu Live CDs (including Kubuntu/Xubuntu and Edubuntu) to your needs. See http://uck.sourceforge.net/
<directhex_> bok bok bok
<MooDoo> Phineas: i think there is a lot for you to learn before you think about creating an os
<Darael> Phineas: If you're even considering writing an OS, it's a very very good idea to do LFS enough to get proficient first.  Or some other OS equivalent.
<dutchie> definitely listen to everyone else
<Pendulum> Phineas: also, it'll help if you learn to program :)
 * dutchie must get round to doing LFS at some point
<daubers> LFS is lovely and horrid at the same time
 * Phineas wonders if he can make his own web browser
<bigcalm> ...
<MooDoo> Phineas: you can't even code, so how do you think you're going to do all this?
<Phineas> thats what i'm asking you guys
<directhex_> i can do a web browser in a couple of dozen lines of code. it may involve just embedding a webkit instance
<MooDoo> Phineas: take a step back mate
<kvarley> Phineas: Learn learn some code
<Phineas> ok
<MooDoo> pick a language
<bigcalm> Phineas: learn C and Python. 2 languages which will help you a lot in Linux systems
<directhex_> c#!
 * bigcalm kippers directhex_
<popey> directhex_: did you know you're directhex_ and not directhex
 * Phineas wonders how to create a psp theme
 * directhex_ herrings bigcalm 
<directhex_> popey: hard to care - i need to blat the box this irc bouncer runs on on thursday
 * Darael throws a haddock in for good measure.
<MooDoo> Phineas: whay don't you look at pystart
<popey> ah
 * Phineas trouts directhex_
<kvarley> Phineas: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/06/20/how-to-make-your-own-psp-themes/
<MooDoo> hmmmm does that exist any more?
<directhex_> quickly?
<MooDoo> ah that's the one lol
<Phineas> window required
<Phineas> s
<bigcalm> This is not the plaice for a fish fight
<MooDoo> bigcalm: stop calping on will you
<daubers> Ai up, MooDoo's haddocknough
<MooDoo> yeah can't ling-er around here all day
<MooDoo> OM cod, will someone answer :D
<Phineas> a what
<popey> Phineas needs to get back to schoal.
<MooDoo> Phineas: take a look at this - http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide
<bigcalm> Fnar fnar
<MooDoo> lol
<bigcalm> popey: do you track clicks on your url shortner?
<Darael> *phew*.  Thought someone was going to get crabby about all those fishy puns.  Oh, ye $DEITY, I started again.
<popey> its possible, yeah
<Phineas> its christmas break i don't school
<bigcalm> popey: what method do you use for the slugs?
<popey> slugs?
<bigcalm> The dL5JaJ is a slug
<Phineas> Darael,  i'm just piking about
<popey> bigcalm: i still dont understand your question
<popey> I use bit.ly pro if that's what you mean?
<popey> I point popey.me at them and they do it all
 * Phineas reboots bigcalm
<bigcalm> Right, ok
<bigcalm> Aww, I was hoping that you would have written your own code like linkpot
<exobuzz> i feel like a beer
<Phineas> me too
<popey> thats funny, you don't look like one
<bigcalm> exobuzz: have a Spitfire
<bigcalm> Phineas: you're not old enough
<exobuzz> got up at 11:30pm last night, so it feels like a long day. my sleep pattern is useless
<Phineas> bigcalm,  your right
<exobuzz> bigcalm, was thinking about bishops finger and maybe an  old peculiar
<exobuzz> not sure i had spitfire. will check
<MooDoo> i'll have an abbott ale please
<exobuzz> old peculiar is just.. amazing
<bigcalm> I had some ales on my amazon wish list
<bigcalm> Pleasing to see that they are no longer in the list ;)
<exobuzz> bigcalm, cheaper than your camera lens ? :)
<bigcalm> Hah
<popey> :)
<exobuzz> beer on amazon wish list. good idea!
<popey> yeah
<exobuzz> ive decided not to go to the ubuntu thing, due to being tired and worried about being stuck in london, but ill come to the next thing when the weather isn't so.. polish.. nice to know there are such events organised though
<bigcalm> Still no news about oggcamp?
<popey> yes
<popey> still no news about oggcamp
<exobuzz> heh
<bigcalm> Aww
<MooDoo> exobuzz: there is a rugby meet in the summer that czajkowski is dealing with
<exobuzz> rugby ? rough sport. oh the place
<bigcalm> No, I think she means the sport
<exobuzz> oh
<bigcalm> cz<tab> likes em rough
<exobuzz> :)
<MooDoo> weyes i'm on about rugby as it's england vs ireland in the summer
<MooDoo> yes i meant
<bigcalm> Just sshed to the joggler
<bigcalm> 1 package can be updated.
<bigcalm> Do I upgrade here or via the jolicloud UI I wonder
<exobuzz> which package ?
<bigcalm> Good question
<bigcalm> How do I check?
<bigcalm> (without installing)
<exobuzz> apt-get -s upgrade
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> jolicloud-tweaks
<exobuzz> aah ok. well.. you can do it from there
<exobuzz> note it will remove the calibration from the topbar
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> Haven't needed it yet...
<exobuzz> you can still run the calibration script manually anyway /usr/local/bin/calibrate_screen or something
<exobuzz> it will also reset panel height if you changed that for example
<bigcalm> I've left everything as the default
<exobuzz> well it will be ok then. they keyboard will still show as its an app icon..
<bigcalm> I still need to find out who to contact about getting my alarm clock into the list of available apps
<exobuzz> systray icon. whatever.. forget the lingo
<bigcalm> Heh, cool
<exobuzz> i dont think you can. you can only add it to local apps
<exobuzz> not until they give the option of doing this on their web interface for example
<exobuzz> best way to contact them is through that q/a site thing
<bigcalm> Sure, but there must be a master list somewhere that somebody governs
<exobuzz> http://getsatisfaction.com/jolicloud
<bigcalm> Ah, ta
<bigcalm> Good to look into, but I think it needs some more work before I push it
<popey> bigcalm: we talked about oggcamp a bit in the show last night
<bigcalm> popey: hurry up with the edit and upload then ;)
<popey> fact is we have no plans whatsoever other than a plan to talk about it in the new year
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> well, you could have listened live last night
<popey> Lp
<popey> colon thorn
<exobuzz> bigcalm, how does yours compare functionaliy to others btw ? i saw a few similar things before, but perhas they work differently
<popey> stupid keyboard
<maco> popey: sounds painful
<bigcalm> I could have, except I was over the road delivering birthday presents
<bigcalm> exobuzz: they do work differently
<popey> pffft
<popey> you have 3g!
<bigcalm> Mine is very much for the joggler - simple and uncluttered
<bigcalm> Also without adverts
<popey> I listen to Linux Outlaws live over 3g when driving to ubuntu podcast :)
<bigcalm> popey: bit rude to be listening to a pod cast while chatting with the chap whoes birthday it was
<exobuzz> yeh. true about the adverts
<popey> pfft
<bigcalm> popey: 3g be damned. I have access to their wifi :D
<exobuzz> popey, another podcast out before xmas ?
<popey> tomorrow
<bigcalm> And also access to my wifi if I stand by the window
<popey> We recorded something "special"
<exobuzz> live snowball fight ?
<MooDoo> popey: a special mr tumble episode?
<popey> A panto :)
<exobuzz> mrrrr tuuumbbble..
<MooDoo> lol my son loves it
<exobuzz> heh. yeh he goes down well at mine too
<MooDoo> mr tumble, the wiggles at the moment
<bigcalm> An audio only panto?
<exobuzz> also in the night garden
<MooDoo> my son has just gone off that, wiggles and barney
<MooDoo> he's into those now
<exobuzz> popey, whats the story ?
<popey> wait and see
<popey> :)
<exobuzz> i cant
<exobuzz> im too excited now.
<MooDoo> exobuzz: balamory?
<MooDoo> lol
<exobuzz> MooDoo, haha
<popey> ok, become a mirror and you'll get the files early :D
<exobuzz> popey, http or ftp and how much bandwidth ? :)
<exobuzz> and disk space
<popey> heheeh
<popey> just under 7GB for 62 episodes so far
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/PodcastMirroring
<matti> popey: ;]
<exobuzz> popey, all simple cept no apache so id need to do that manually but ill take a look :)
<popey> do you use a different webserver?
<popey> (I don't use apache either, I use lighttpd)
<exobuzz> on the machine with lots of bandwidth yeh. nginx
<exobuzz> yeh i saw that the other day. somewhere.. maybe on your blog or something.
<popey> shouldn't be a problem
<bigcalm> What does Apache do that lighthttpd doesn't?
<exobuzz> nginx/lighttpd are useful for those that dont think a 128mb php application should be given the same priority as a 4kb png
<exobuzz> :)
<exobuzz> or for example. want to serve maybe few connections for static content without giving 300 conenctions to the same 128mb php app :)
<exobuzz> few hundred i meant.
<AlanBell> choo choo
<exobuzz> still. i like apache config and use it on all other dev / non production machines.
<exobuzz> AlanBell, sorry. there is snow. no train service.
 * AlanBell has evidence to the contrary
<AlanBell> on time too, had to run the last bit
<daubers> AlanBell: I have to get home first! Then catch a bus, then a train, then a tube. All I need is a boat and a plane and I'll have the whole set
<AlanBell> good luck with the plane!
<exobuzz> AlanBell, im impressed! :)
<AlanBell> currently on the OLPC tethered to my phone doing fedora updates
 * exobuzz rsyncs podcasts
<Phineas> bye all
<exobuzz> popey, what sort of transfer do the mirrors do a month ?
<kazade> daubers, I can one-up you there. My parents live on the Isle of Wight - normally we get Tube -> Train -> Boat -> Bus ;)
<danfish> AlanBell: don't let popey near that OLPC, or if last year was anything to go by, you'll spend the first 1/4 of 2011 putting it can together ;)
<popey> exobuzz: depends, we can limit the amount of traffic sent to each mirror
<popey> but we dont limit on bytes, but its proportional
<exobuzz> ok.. well.. so long as it's not 1tb or something :)
<exobuzz> (a month)
<exobuzz> i emailed dave
<popey> great, thanks
<exobuzz> thanks for the show.
<popey> np
<daubers> kazade: heh :)
<exobuzz> hope the mirror lasts.. this server has had bad luck.. i blame apple. Mac Mini Core Solo 1.5ghz Mac Mini Core Duo 1.6ghz (RIP 2010), Mac Mini 1333MHz G4 (RIP 2009)
<popey> is it at home?
<exobuzz> dies each year
<exobuzz> it's in london (docklands area) http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/File:Macmini-rack.jpg
<exobuzz> same place i host my joggler stuff
<popey> how many Us is that?
<popey> 4?
<czajkowski> whooooo dublin
<exobuzz> according to mythic-beasts you can get 8 in 3U
<popey> yay
<kvarley>  czajkowski: :)
<popey> what are they running?
<exobuzz> or something.
<Pendulum> czajkowski: yay!
<exobuzz> only one is mine. mine runs debian
<popey> isn't it a bit of a pain, no serial port?
<danfish> czajkowski: relief :D
<exobuzz> netbook recovery..
<AlanBell> o/ czajkowski
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski a big Christmas hug and is glad she got to Ireland in the end
<exobuzz> can be a pain if it crashes badly, since the power mode is reset each time or so, so every boot it has to be told on power cycle/reboot not to go into standby
<exobuzz> more info about machine @ http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/ExoticA:Hosting
<popey> RIGHT! Shut the doors, don't let czajkowski back in!
<exobuzz> czajkowski, how long did it take to get there ?
<AlanBell> deportation was a success in the end :)
<davmor2> popey: Harsh,  I was thing more like fence in Ireland so she can't escape.....
<popey> heh
<popey> we got rid of her in the end!
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> nice exobuzz
<daubers> Right, leaving the office in 15 minutes -> Tilehurst (by car) -> Reading (Bus) -> Paddington (train) -> Kings Cross (tube) -> Angel (tube)-> PARTY \o/ (by foot)
<AlanBell> http://www.last.fm/user/ubuntuparty
<popey> AlanBell: anything i need ot bring?
<dutchie> fiver
<popey> ok
<AlanBell> alcohol
<AlanBell> food
<AlanBell> self
<dutchie> probably warm clothes would be a good idea too
<AlanBell> paper plates
<AlanBell> plastic glasses
<dutchie> AlanBell: OLPC? :)
<AlanBell> dutchie: what do you think I am typing on :)
<AlanBell> I was going to pop to the shop over the road from the place to get plates and glasses, unless anyone else wants to gring them
<AlanBell> bring
<AlanBell> the OLPC needs dismantling anyhow to tighten the hinge
<andylockran> MooDoo: you still aroound?
<daubers> Will pop into the shop for booze on the way
<popey> ditto
 * AlanBell has a bottle of sherry
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Ubuntu Font released for web on Google Font Directory today.
<daubers> beer or whiskey?
<popey> keep up TheOpenSourcerer :)
<AlanBell> both
 * AlanBell raised the bug that got the font there :)
<popey> http://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/17224400503840770
<popey> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Just got a copy of the press release by email.
<kazade> oops, just created quite a massive forest fire on Minecraft... not entirely intentionally :)
<AlanBell> ooh waterloo o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Been out to collect kid from school.
<popey> UNACCEPTABLE!
<popey> you have a "tablet" don't you? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> huh?
<popey> nvm, humour
<TheOpenSourcerer> dustball
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<popey> i might bring my natty narwhal
<davmor2> popey: have you not animated that yet
<daubers> Right!
<daubers> To Sainsbury! And then onwards
<exobuzz> i was just leaving the house to go and buy some ales, and a deliveryman arrived with a box.. of ales! from yorkshire.
<exobuzz> i think i i have my suspicions who sent it (not me when i was last drunk i think).. how lovely though
<dwatkins> awesome, exobuzz - from AlesByMail?
<dwatkins> They do really good Discworld sausages, I hear
<exobuzz> from erm. "copper dragon brewery" skipton
<dwatkins> it's self-perpetuating, this ale drinking
<exobuzz> its too nice.. they taste too good
<exobuzz> cant stop
<bigcalm> I went to deploy the changes to my alarm clock to the joggler. That was at 15:25
 * bigcalm yawns and streches
<bigcalm> Lets hope that nap makes me do more work
<exobuzz> i must have a proper go on your clock.
<exobuzz> on the joggler.
<bigcalm> It's probabbly more useable now
<bigcalm> The snooze function works (10 min repeatable)
<bigcalm> And Craczy Words - Crazy Tune (uupc music) is an alarm option
<bigcalm> Crazy
<exobuzz> looks good on the browser here.ill give it a test downstairs
 * BigRedS should be at the christmas meetup tonight, but hasn't got any paraphenalia
<popey> 17:20 train from Farnborough to London looks good to me
<andylockran> popey: all still running ok?
<popey> no idea
<popey> soon find out :D
<BigRedS> ah, I've a 17:30ish Dorset to London car
<popey> google maps thinks it would take me 11 hours 51 mins to walk to the party
<davmor2> popey: How far?
<shauno> does gmaps allow 'ski' as an option?
<andylockran> nope
<jacobw> what does usermode +i mean?
<shauno> invisible .. which isn't as epic as it sounds :)
<shauno> I believe it stops you showing up in /who for non-opers
<jacobw> oh
<jacobw> i've only noticed because i've gone through the trouble to be +Z w/ SSL/SASL
<Phineas> I have returned on my mobile
<bastubis> Hiya - I've just put instructions on how to get here via Freenode's webchat on our website - I've illustrated it with a screenshot of the web interface - does anyone mind their nick being visible? If so, I'll white them out
<Phineas> I don't mind my nick being visable
<bastubis> didn't think anyone would, but thought I'd check :)
<bastubis> i's here: http://www.fossbox.org.uk/?q=node/22
<Phineas> its up to you
<bastubis> well, it saves me the bother of whiting out everyone's nick if people don't mind ;)
<Phineas> don't bother then
<bastubis> Works for me :)
<Phineas> BURP!!!
<Phineas> actually white my nick out
<bastubis> OK
<dutchie> bastubis: you know you can prepopulate the channel and nick fields using query strings on the url?
<Steven_srs> hello
<Phineas> hu
<Phineas> hi
<bastubis> done :)
<Steven_srs> ubuntu 10.04, 64bit, just installed on HP pavilion, install went ok, now i am in ubuntu, he detected network, according to pc i am connected to network, but no internet acces is possible
<kvarley> Steven_srs: Have you tried connecting to the internet from another computer or phone to see whether the internet is still working?
<bastubis> open a terminal, ping google or something?
<bastubis> then ifconfig and see what it says
<Steven_srs> @kvarley, i am now on 2nd laptop, using net to talk to you, sou internet is ok, @bastubis: newbe: how to ping?
<bastubis> do you know how to open a terminal?
<Steven_srs> @bastubis: did ifconfig
<Steven_srs> 3 "chapters"
<Steven_srs> eth0, lo and wlan0
<bastubis> ok paste ifconfig
<bastubis> then ping google.co.uk
<Steven_srs> can't paste, ubuntu is on laptop on my side
<bastubis> ah ok
<bastubis> do you have an ip assigned to the PC?
<Steven_srs> i can't use internet on ubuntu, that's why chatting on 2nd laptop
<Steven_srs> what's that ip assigned to pc?
<Steven_srs> i could use internet on windows on same pc before, if that answers your question
<bastubis> top two lines of ifconfig on the PC should look something like this:
<bastubis> eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:90:f5:69:63:22
<bastubis>           inet addr:192.168.1.12  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
<bastubis> the inet addr number shows that the router knows you're there and has given you a number
<Steven_srs> inet addr (at wlan0): inet addr:10.1.1.8
<bastubis> ok that looks kinda sensible
<bastubis> ok now type this at the prompt on the PC:
<bastubis> ping google.co.uk
<bastubis> see what it says
<Steven_srs> and at lo i have: inet addr:127.0.0.1
<bastubis> ok that's just hte local loop
<bastubis> it's the eth0 we're interested in
<Steven_srs> at eth0 i have no inet addr
<Steven_srs> and answer to ping: unknown host google.co.uk
<bastubis> ok, type this:
<bastubis> ping  216.239.51.99
<bastubis> then check that your network cable is securely connected to the PC and to the router
<Phineas> pobg
<Phineas> pong
<Steven_srs> @bastubis: i have no cable, only connection possible at my location is wireless
<bastubis> Ahhhhhhh
<bastubis> Any chance you could find a cable? sounds like your wifi card hasn't installed properly
<bastubis> recent versions of Ubuntu like to be cabled to the internet during installation
<Steven_srs> but it is recognizing the correct connection, though, according to ubuntu i am connected to the network
<bastubis> you mean it's showing you a connection icon on the top panel?
<Steven_srs> can not access cable, i live in a hotel in brazil, and have no access to main router
<bastubis> IC
<Steven_srs> and to answer your ping 216.239.51.99: PING 216.239.51.99 (216.239.51.99) 56 (84) bytes of data
<bastubis> is that all it said?
<Steven_srs> yep
<jacobw> you don't need an internet connection to install Ubuntu
<davmor2> Steven_srs: Is it a passworded system?  Sometimes you'll find you can connect but you can only get the login page for the routers wireless system
<Steven_srs> i entered the password for the connection
<jacobw> it is entirely optional in the install process to use an internet connection to download updates and non-free packages
<Phineas> wake me up
<bastubis> yes, but if you don't, it often doesn't install wifi cards
<bastubis> trust me ;)
<bastubis> OK so you've got a wireless icon in the top panel and you can access the login page in your browser?
<Steven_srs> login page? wireless icon , check (45%)
<bduncan> bastubis: fwiw, i also didn't get any pongs from 216.239.51.99...
<Steven_srs> and wireless "light" on laptop is blue as well
<bastubis> OK
<bastubis> so how do you log into the wireless? Do you enter a 'key' in a box when you click on the SSID?
<bastubis> @boduncan - sorry, I'll get an IP that works ;)
<Steven_srs> log into wireless? it is automatic, i presume
<bastubis> try pinging my ISPs DNS server: ping 77.72.0.11
<bduncan> bastubis: better :)
<bastubis> OK don't all do it lol
<jacobw> 208.67.222.222
<Steven_srs> i can't seem to find my network properties anymore, where to find the options for my current networ?
<Steven_srs> *network
<jacobw> right click nm-applet, connection information
<Steven_srs> then i get only info, if i rightclick wireless icon, but before i had an option to add info and changes things, but i can't find it anymore
 * Phineas feels ignored
<bastubis> ping Phineas
<Phineas> oh ive been gughlighted
<jacobw> try edit connections instead of connection information if you want change network settings
<Steven_srs> i tried, but i can not edit my current connection
<bastubis> right-click your connection icon and choose 'edit connections'
<bastubis> then click the 'wireless' tab
<bastubis> choose your wireless SSID from the list
<jacobw> if you're connected to a wireless network though you shouldn't need to change any more settings
<bastubis> I'm not sure he is connected tho
<jacobw> you may have a DNS issue, set you DNS nameservers as 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220 in network manager
<Steven_srs> the only connection there is "auto luxor hotel", but the auto is not part of the original name, and the only option i have is to add a wireless network, but not to edit it
<jacobw> you have highlighted the entry right?
<Steven_srs> yes, entry is highlighted, but the option "edtit" does not become available
<bastubis> right-click on the connection icon and choose 'connection information'
<Steven_srs> nor the delete option
<davmor2> Steven_srs: The Auto bit is to just say that it automatically connects to that named connection
<Steven_srs> @davmor2, ok
<Steven_srs> what info do you need from the connection information, bastubis?
<bastubis> Driver, IP etc
<Steven_srs> driver: ath9k, speed: 24mb/s, security: wep, ip add: 10.1.1.8, broadcast addr: 10.1.1.255
<bastubis> if he can't even ping a DNS IP then he's not connected
<Steven_srs> defoult router= primary dns: 10.1.1.1
<bastubis> OK, that all looks kind of OK
<bastubis> try pinging the router
<bastubis> ping 10.1.1.1
<bastubis> did you enter a wep key when you logged on?
<jacobw> how is the second laptop connected to the internet?
<Steven_srs> wireless
<davmor2> Steven_srs: Can you check the details on the second and ensure they match those on the first
<davmor2> Steven_srs: or at least are similar
<Steven_srs> and the ping thing is doing something really strange now: 64 bytes from 10.1.1.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=2.69ms  ... but the thing is, the icmp_seq is not stopping to count, it still is going: 120 and counting
<bastubis> perfect!
<bastubis> hold down control key and 'c'
<bastubis> OK it's a DNS problem
<bastubis> possibly the router is incompatible with linux
<Steven_srs> ok DNS
<davmor2> Steven_srs: When you open the browser what happens?
<jacobw> NOT POSSIBLE
<bastubis> very possible, I can list you a couple of SOHO routers that don't work with Linux
<Darael> bastubis: The router /cannot/ be incompatible with linux, although it can refuse to allow configuration from Linux.  There's a difference.
<Steven_srs> @davmor: i type in the webpage, and it saysthe normal page that comes when no internet (server not found) (check address,...)
<Steven_srs> ok, about DNS
<bastubis> OK Danawar2 lol - I know of a couple of routers that can't handle DNS properly
<Steven_srs> at my windows PC, i had to do something really strange, that i didn't do to other wireless connections before, never: it is about the ipv4
<bastubis> Ubuntu should drop down to IPv4 if the router can't handle IPv6
<Darael> bastubis: Assuming you meant me, I'll grant that.
<bastubis> ooops, sorr Darael
<Darael> Not a problem.
<Steven_srs> in windows 7 i had to manually type 2 dns server addresses
<Steven_srs> be4 being able to connect
<bastubis> fantastic - if it's that simple
<jacobw> s/can\'t handle/aren\'t configured
<bastubis> if you can't change it in the nm-applet
 * Phineas feels ignored again
<bastubis> you can do it on the commandline
<jacobw> if you can ping 208.67.222.222 but not google.com then it is a DNS problem
<Darael> bastubis: DNS is configurable from nm-applet, but it's good to point that out.
<bastubis> he already said he can't edit it through the nm-applet
<jacobw> would the nm-applet issues be explained by the user not being a sudoer?
<Darael> Have you tried setting it to DHCP (addresses only).
<bastubis> nm-applet is a world of weird these days
<Darael> s/./?
<Darael> Normally you need to do that before it'll let you change the DNS servers defined.
<Steven_srs> i am restarting ubuntu PC right now, just a sec be4 explaining
<jacobw> Darael: he says that he can't click the edit button after highlighting the network entry in the network connections dialogue
<Steven_srs> ok people
<Steven_srs> start fighting :p
<Darael> jacobw: Ah.  Don't know then.
<Steven_srs> restarted the pc, and now i can edit YES
<jacobw> Darael: which is puzzling me because i can't quite understand why that would happen
<Steven_srs> be4 i could not, now it is possible
<Darael> jacobw: I, also.  However, that appears to no longer be the case, so let us not worry.
<bastubis> perfect Steven_srs - you just need to change the DNS servers
<Steven_srs> now i clicked the connection, and now the edit and delet option are possible
<Steven_srs> since that changed whithout me doing something, i'll try internet first
<jacobw> Steven_srs: Edit, IPv4 settings, Method: Automatic (DHCP) addresses only, DNS servers: 208.67.222.222, Apply
<Darael> jacobw: OpenDNS is it?  ...now why do I know that?
<Steven_srs> ok, still no internet
<jacobw> Darael: ja, i've had it burnt in to my brain for a while
<jacobw> Darael: their secondary server is 208.67.220.220 :p
<bastubis> or ask the hotel for their dns servers :)
<Steven_srs> @jacob: i have the option IPV4, and it is automatic (dhcp) but i can not enter the DNS servers, the only field where i can enter something is dhcp client, the others (dns server and search domains) are "blacked out"
<Steven_srs> @bas: i have the numbers at hand
<bastubis> ah OK :)
<jacobw> Steven_srs: next one down in the list
<jacobw> Automatic (DHCP) addresses only
<bastubis> select automatic DHCP address onl;yu
<bastubis> and the bits you need will drop down
<bastubis> oops, sorry jacobw - was distracted and didn't see you already said this
<Steven_srs> ok
<Steven_srs> sorry, didn't pay attention about the addr only part
<Steven_srs> only the dns numbers or other things as well?
<jacobw> just the DNS address
<jacobw> you shouldn't need a search domain
<bastubis> Teatime!
<Steven_srs> ok, i applied it, but it is taking to slow, i think it is not that
<Steven_srs> @bas i'll take it black, no sugar
<bastubis> laters :)
<bastubis> well, I'm off to loll about, was going to the party but - brrrrrr!
<Steven_srs> god, i crave a real english tea
<jacobw> i shouldn't take too long
<Steven_srs> but with 35Â°C here, it is only ice tea that i drink
<jacobw> s/i/it
 * bastubis would poor some through the interwebs but for the technical difficulties lol
<jacobw> eek, 35C
 * jacobw doesn't operate about ~28C
<Phineas> I like tea
<jacobw> s/about/above
<Steven_srs> anyways.... still no internet @ubuntu :(
<null-deimos> Are there any kvm / ubuntu / network experts in the house?
<jacobw> i'm making a lot of typos today :(
<Darael> Steven_srs: If it's slow as well, you may want to try disabling IPv6 - sometimes that makes a difference.  Shame, really, we're going to need to move to v6 within a year.
<jacobw> hmm, open a terminal and type `cat /etc/resolv.conf | grep nameserver`
<Steven_srs> @darael: ipv6 is "ignore"
<jacobw> without the `'s
<Darael> Steven_srs: Hmm, not sure then.  Also, sorry, should really have read the backlog.
<Steven_srs> @jacob: which "s"? reSolv or nameServer?
<jacobw> Steven_srs: `
<jacobw> Steven_srs: without the ` characters
<jacobw> Steven_srs: sorry, i was a bit unclear
<jacobw> Steven_srs: cat /etc/resolv.conf | grep nameserver
<Steven_srs> and between conf and | and grep: space or no spaces?
<Darael> Steven_srs: Doesn't really matter.
<Steven_srs> without spaces: this is answer: bash: cat/etc/resolv.conf: no such file or directory
<jacobw> space after cat
<Darael> Steven_srs: You need the sapace after cat and grep, but others are optional.
<Steven_srs> ok
<Darael> s/sapace/space/
<Steven_srs> nameserver (in red) 10.1.1.1
<jacobw> ok
<danfish> null-deimos: until we know the question.....:)
<jacobw> now do `echo "sudo nameserver 208.67.222.222 > /etc/resolv.conf`
<jacobw> sorry..
<jacobw> `sudo echo "nameserver 208.67.222.222" > /etc/resolv.conf`
<jacobw> it will ask you for your user password
<Darael> jacobw: Won't work, the sudo doesn't carry past the >
<Steven_srs> permission denied
<jacobw> oh :s
<null-deimos> danfish, I'm trying to use kvm, via libvirt, virt-install, etc, but I need to set up a bridged network first. I need to do it in a way that the extra MACs are hidden from the switches, or the traffic will be blocked.
<jacobw> sudo su -
<Darael> jacobw: Needs to be `sudo sh -c 'echo "nameserver 208.67.222.222" > /etc/resolv.conf'`
<jacobw> ok
<Darael> jacobw: That works too.
<Darael> As, indeed, does sudo -i
<Steven_srs> i did sudo -i, entered password, and now i am in root?
<Darael> Steven_srs: That's right.
<Steven_srs> ok, so next?
<jacobw> ok, now do `echo "nameserver 208.67.222.222" > /etc/resolv.conf`
<jacobw> right, time for dinner :) bbiab
<Steven_srs> typed it, but did do nothing visible
<Steven_srs> it just went to an empty "root@pcname"-line
<Darael> Steven_srs: It's not meant to, don't worry.  Try browsing again - but first, press ctl+d to leave the root shell.
<Steven_srs> ok
<null-deimos> @Steven_srs, it should have updated the /etc/resolv.conf file.
<Steven_srs> i'm out
<Steven_srs> and i am in
<Steven_srs> thank you
<Steven_srs> have no idea what i did
<Steven_srs> but i am ubuntu-connected now
<Steven_srs> :)
<Steven_srs> it is still slow as hell, but at least it is the first step to jug out windows :)
<davmor2> jacobw: Hmm opendns by the look of it :D
<danfish> null-deimos: i *think* the easiest way to do that is 'cheat' and use the GUI tool virt-manager - from memory that has that option
<Steven_srs> well you guys, fancy an invitation to my swimming pool here?
<davmor2> Steven_srs: you paying?
<Steven_srs> what you think? xmass with palmtrees, hot babes and cheap licor?
<Steven_srs> i'll pay for the booze ;)
<null-deimos> I need to connect to an existing bridge, as I need to control the bridges configuration, I can't use the ones that libvirt magically creates.
<Darael> davmor2: I already did that!
<null-deimos> Because by hosting environment kills traffic from MACs it doesn't recognise.
<Phineas> fire alarm
<Phineas> big tine
<Steven_srs> but thanks for the help everybody
<null-deimos> Ideally I'd do this: http://tjworld.net/wiki/Linux/KvmQemuEasyRoutedNetwork, but routed is harder, so I'm trying to make a bridge behing a dummy devicce.
<davmor2> Phineas: You have a big fork in your fire alarm
<Darael> Phineas: big tine?  Like, an oversized fork-prong?  OK, OK, I'll be sensible.
<Darael> davmor2: Your point.
<Phineas> big time sorry
<Phineas> misspell
<Steven_srs> other question now
<Darael> Phineas: We know, but we wouldn't miss the chance for a bad pun.  Well, I wouldn't.
<Phineas> loud
<Steven_srs> wanted to install wine, but it says tat it is not compatible with "amd64"... any alternatives?
<null-deimos> Virtualise.
<kvarley> Steven_srs: Where are you installing wine from?
<null-deimos> Install a 32-bit Linux,
<Darael> Steven_srs: Wine should run fine on amd64 - I've got it installed on this laptop and am running amd64, so I know.
<davmor2> Steven_srs: you can install wine I have it install on 64bit
<Steven_srs> don't want to go back to 32... i am using the ubuntu software center
<null-deimos> Listen to the other guys.
<kvarley> Steven_srs: It should work, if not use wine's PPA.
<Steven_srs> ppa?
<kvarley> Steven_srs: Personal Packaging Archive
<kvarley> Steven_srs: It's essentially a repository
<kvarley> Steven_srs: Open terminal and type "sudo apt-add-repository ppa:ubuntu-wine/paa" hit enter, then run "sudo apt-get update" hit enter, then run "sudo apt-get install wine1.3
<Steven_srs> have no idea what is that, but should i try using the ubuntu software center and go for it, or go to the wine site and grab it from there?
<davmor2> Steven_srs: Wine is currently installing on my main 64bit system
<Steven_srs> wine 3.1? the software center is talking about 1.2 :s
<Darael> Steven_srs: Do what kvarley says - it's the command line version of doing it from the software centre.  Well, with an extra step.
<Steven_srs> sorry, 1.3, not 3.1
<Darael> Steven_srs: Yeah, wine's been updated since we froze the version in Ubuntu.  That's what the PPA is for.  Don't worry about it.
<Darael> except, change kvarley's "ppa:ubuntu-wine/paa" to "ppa:ubuntu-wine/ppa".
<Steven_srs> was about to ask that now :)
<kvarley> Darael: Oooppps my bad
<Darael> kvarley: We all make typos occasionally.
<kvarley> Darael: :)
<Steven_srs> "E: could not get lock /var/lib/............"
<null-deimos> Is there an IRC channel for people who know networking? I think that's where I need help first...
<Darael> Steven_srs: Wait for any updates or installs that are running to complete first.
<Darael> null-deimos: Suggest trying #ubuntu as it's more active in the support department.  Also ##linux.
<null-deimos> Ta. Will do.
<Darael> null-deimos: Also #networking and, indeed, ##networking.
<Darael> null-deimos: For future reference, I did "/msg alis list *networking*" to get those last two.  You may find that useful.
<Steven_srs> ok, i redid the "sudo apt-add-rep ....." and it says: error reading https://launchpad ............................"
<Steven_srs> ?
<Darael> Steven_srs: You said IPv6 was set to ignore - did you mean in nm-applet?  Because if so, it can still cause problems.  I suggest trying "sudo modprobe -r ipv6" to see if it makes your network any more responsive.  It may help with the other, as well.
<Steven_srs> modprobe-r: command not found
<Darael> Steven_srs: You need the space before the "-r"
<Steven_srs> ok
<Steven_srs> fatal: module ipv6 not found
<Darael> ...of course, my mistake, one moment.
<null-deimos> dareal, thanks.
<Darael> Steven_srs: I'm not going to try, a reboot would be needed and it would cause you problems within the year.  We'll stick to the other issue.  Does it give you any more info about the error?
<Steven_srs> i think i will try to download the recomended upgrades and patches be4 i will look into adding programs
<Steven_srs> maybe that way, many problems will resolve themselves
<Steven_srs> because i just installed 10.04 lts just today, and the disc was made a few months ago
<bigcalm> popey: ping
<Steven_srs> don't you think this way i will be avoiding many glitches and bugs?
<Steven_srs> and besides, a much more urgent problem appeared: there's a beehive being constructed by some very eager bees right at my window... by the way, how do you call a group of bees in english?
<ali1234> i wouldn't bother with the wine ppa, i hear nothing but bad things about it
<ali1234> there's a reason why they make two versions
<Darael> Steven_srs: A swarm, usually.
<ali1234> (it's because one of them is known to break all the time)
<ali1234> you should use 10.10 though if you are going to use wine
<Steven_srs> well, my luck is that it is a sort of bee that is rather harmless, but hey, harmless or not, i do not feel comfy knowing that a swarm of bees is moving in the neighbourhood
<Steven_srs> thanks you all for the great help
<Steven_srs> i'll be hanging around because i really would like to try to get rid of windows
<Steven_srs> and i'll be needing your help a lot in the future!!!
<Steven_srs> cheers
<MartijnVdS> \o/ my Kraftwerk LPs arrived
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: It's been a while since I saw someone get excited about an LP arriving :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I'm always excited when packages arrive :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: also, I've only had my record player for a week ;)
<davmor2> Oh dear
<nperry> I've got an email from play apologising for delay in posting my order
<nperry> I got it two days after i ordered it :/
<MartijnVdS> nice
 * MartijnVdS is still waiting for 2 packages from the uk
<MartijnVdS> but I guess they're coming though Heathrow or something
<nperry> Bad times
<MartijnVdS> In Dutch we call it a "luxeprobleem"
<MartijnVdS> ("luxury problem"?)
<tunist_> greetings! anyone know why an intel quadcore would bring the 10.10 ubuntu installer to a halt at the point the install displays the core numbers? i have use 32 and 64bit versions.. from a usb key
<MartijnVdS> tunist_: at what point of the install does it display the core numbers?
 * MartijnVdS doesn't know of such a point
<tunist_> its during a period where there is a black screen and white text
<Azelphur> core numbers?
<tunist_> it usually moves by pretty quickly
<tunist_> but it stops at that certain point
<tunist_> when it hangs
<ali1234> sounds like that old overheating bug maybe
<MartijnVdS> acpi issue?
<ali1234> but that was fixed ages ago
<tunist_> could be acpi..
<tunist_> not overheating
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: overheating in the first seconds of the boot run?
<tunist_> at least not 'really'
<ali1234> does it say anything about thermal zone?
<tunist_> no
<tunist_> i'm using windows ok
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: yeah there was a bug, it wasn't *really* overheating, but it throttled the cpu anyway, endlessly
<ali1234> it also filled /var with logs in about a day after install on a typical disk size
<tunist_> do i need to disable acpi?
<tunist_> maybe?
<ali1234> need to see the exact lines to be sure
<tunist_> i'm not sure which other similar options are in the bios
<tunist_> ok, i'll write them down and look at acpi.. thanks for the pointer
<tunist_> :)
<tunist> regarding the install issue on the intel quadcore.. i have a screenshot of the black bg and white text.. (the point where the cores are initialized)..
<tunist> its at http://www.growforall.co.uk/images/IMG_0360.JPG if anyone will look?
<directhex_> disabling acpi means disabling your cores.
<directhex_> acpi is needed for multi-cpu
<nperry> Life with only one core...
<tunist> right, i'll do that again.. i was lg
<tunist> logged out of irc
<tunist> got a different app now
<tunist> so yes.. here is a screenshot of the install text from the quadcore: http://www.growforall.co.uk/images/IMG_0360.JPG
<tunist> did i miss any replies?
<tunist> thanks
<directhex_> 20:02 <directhex_> disabling acpi means disabling your cores.
<directhex_> 20:02 <directhex_> acpi is needed for multi-cpu
<tunist> there was no option in the bios to disable it anyway
<ali1234> i don't see any serious problems in that screenshot
<ali1234> wait, does it get stuck at #2?
<tunist> yeah, it stops there
<tunist> sometimes on one
<tunist> or 3
<tunist> most often 2
<ali1234> something weird is going on there
<tunist> i have an abit ip35 motherboard.. and bios updates haven't been available for a while now since abit stopped trading
<tunist> however... win 7 is ok
<ali1234> unfortunately this is beyond my expertise
<tunist> ok, thanks for looking anyway
<tunist> i have put a post in the ubuntu forum, so maybe someone there will know
<Azelphur> just got a Â£50 amazon gift card for Â£37 :D
<Darael> Good going, Azelphur.
<Azelphur> hehe
<Darael> tunist: It may be worth trying in #ubuntu - there's a /lot/ more people in there and they may be able to help.
<nperry> Azelphur did you rape that poor person in #Cyanogenmod ?
<Azelphur> nperry: quite possibly, if only for Â£13 xD
<nperry> Should of offered Â£38 :/
<jacobw> tunist: try askubuntu.com as well
<Azelphur> nperry: haha
<AlanBell> hu
<AlanBell> hi all o/
<Yorvyk> o/
<Yorvyk> Howâs the party?
<nperry> Evening AlanBell
<Darael> Does anyone know why my nm-applet is repeatedly being killed on my Maverick box?
<kvarley>  Darael: I have that issue too, well it's connecting to auto eth0 but I dont see the applet on the panel
<Darael> kvarley: I've reported a bug and am asking in #ubuntu, I'll let you know if I get an answer.
<Darael> bug 692835
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 692835 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "nm-applet vanishes (killed?)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692835
<kvarley> kvarley: Thanks
<kvarley> I mean Darael: Thanks lol
<Darael> I gathered.
<Darael> :P
 * kvarley loves Unigine
<kvarley> Looks very promising for commercial linux games
<Darael> kvarley: Looks very promising indeed.  Interesting that the third platform is PS3 and not Mac, but since I own the former and not the latter, I'm hardly going to object!
<kvarley> Darael: Mac has steam support
<kvarley> Darael: Loving the fact they don't support xbox360 :)
<kvarley> Darael: As soon as somebody makes a multiplayer fps with the unigine engine I'm buying it.
<Darael> kvarley: Absolutely.  Although we're supposed to be getting steam support too.
<kvarley> Darael: Yes, but do we want it? ;)
<kvarley> I see your point tho
<Darael> :P
<Darael> I have to say I probably won't be buying any FPSen anytime soon.  If someone decides to build a spiritual successor to Black & White, though, I'll definitely buy that.  Shame Lionhead dropped the series, but probably something to do with their getting bought by Microsoft.
<kvarley> Darael: I mainly play fps and it's the one thing which keeps windows on my hard drive. Installing the new alien arena now, looks tasty
<Darael> kvarley: I recommend Tremulous if you like FPSen.  Good for multiplayer, and has sufficient strategy to keep me interested without putting pure fps lovers off.
<Darael> kvarley: ...especially since it's built off the same base as Alien Arena and OpenArena.
<kvarley> Darael: I will look at it - Thanks for the recommendation :)
<jacobw> hi hamitron
<hamitron> hi jacobw :)
<hamitron> how things?
<jacobw> good thanks :) i'm watching "beautiful equations" on the iplayer
<jacobw> you?
<jacobw> ergh. this christmas thing should be over already
<hamitron> good here thanks, looking forward to xmas
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> but there is good food to be had...
<jacobw> true, if i wasn't ill i would be enjoying it
<jacobw> i think i've hurt some stomach muscles somehow
<jacobw> bleh
<hamitron> I've eaten a tin of cadbury heroes already :/
<jacobw> :o
<hamitron> over 4 days ;/
<jacobw> ah ok
<hamitron> not pigged out in 1 day
<hamitron> hehe
<jacobw> i thought like, in two hours or something
<hamitron> oh no, I am not as hardcore as I once was
<jacobw> i prefer pigging out on meat
<jacobw> its no wonder i failed in my vegetarian effort
<hamitron> you tried? :-o
<jpds> jacobw: Have a cucumberburger.
<jacobw> managed it for a month
 * Darael never failed in their his effort.  Possibly because he was never not veggie.
<jacobw> hehe, not such a bad idea
<hamitron> the only meal I can think of I would eat with no meat, is cheese and tomato pizza
<jacobw> pasta with cheese sauce?
<hamitron> but it is so much better with ham on
<hamitron> I don't eat pasta
<hamitron> or rice
<hamitron> ;/
<jacobw> i actually enjoyed the vegetarian food, i just craved meat AS WELL
<jpds> jacobw: 'tis good to have a balanced diet.
<jacobw> yeah, i've been reading about the paleo diet
<hamitron> I like sprouts... but a dish full of them is bad
<jacobw> i.e. caveman diet
<jacobw> lots of fruit and veg and a small amount of meat
<jpds> hamitron: Have a sproutburger.
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I am a good hunter... so can I have more meat? ;)
 * Darael flee the very notion of a sproutburger
<Darael> s/flee/flees/
<Darael> hamitron: Tell you what, you can have my meat if I can have some extra fruit.
<Darael> Barter system?
<hamitron> I just like more :/
<jpds> https://twitpic.com/3i6gfy - that is all.
<hamitron> wtf is that?
<jacobw> toothpaste?
<Darael> The worst mince pie ever, allegedly.
<jacobw> a hair net?
<jpds> hamitron: A question that plagued some of the Xmas party.
<hamitron> surely pophey can enlighten us?
<Darael> It's a duck!
<Darael> Can't you see the duck?
<hamitron> I see a penguin
<hamitron> ;)
<jpds> I'm sure it's not marmite.
<hamitron> don't think I can face another pie from the store now
<hamitron> :/
<jacobw> PIE
<jacobw> glorius pie
<jpds> jacobw: Ï ?
<jacobw> it looks like a pie..
<hamitron> kinky tux in a latex suit, jumping out of a mince pie for xmas
<jacobw> and how long did it take to work out how to type that? :P
<Darael> I wish there was a compose key combination for Ï - it's not like compose-p-i is used.
 * jacobw didn't know about the compose key before
 * Darael doesn't like caps lock, so he remapped it to compose.
<Darael> Resulted in considerably less cursing from me.
<Darael> ...and it was easy using the keymap options in Ubuntu.  Was pretty happy.
<hamitron> I never get around to tweaking things
<Darael> I do, because while I spend far too long doing it, I then don't touch things again while I have that computer.
<hamitron> ah :)
<hamitron> I just leave my linux machines and let them work... saves me enough time to fix the windows machines
<hamitron> but I am lazy
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> when I look at the problems I cause for myself, wanting to play games...
 * jacobw retires for the evening
<eli_> test
<eli_> yup
<eli_> seems ok to me
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-22
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Martin Meredith] Why Google Apps might not be right for your Enterprise - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/SourceGuru/~3/DowG63spCBs/
<AlanBell> evening all
 * popey tickles AlanBell 
 * AlanBell giggles
<AlanBell> that font bug was bigger news than I thought it would be
<AlanBell> 655305
<AlanBell> bug 655305
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 655305 in ubuntu-font-family-website "font.ubuntu.com needs the font hosted for web embedding" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655305
<Pendulum> AlanBell: how was the party?
<exobuzz> how did the meetup go ?
<exobuzz> or everyone is still out clubbing and drunk etc ? :)
<exobuzz> or early to bed (more like heh)
<popey> exobuzz: I am ... a bit... tiddly
<popey> nn
<jpds> exobuzz: We left the venue around 10:30
<exobuzz> nice
<exobuzz> popey, good night ?
<exobuzz> oh. your off to bed now. sorry :)
<jpds> A good idea.
<Zarathustraz> Hi, could anyone recommend me to Python learning resources? I do not know any other programming languages and intend to learn basics.
<shauno> in lieu of anyone who actually knows what they're talking about being awake, I've found http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/  to be worth the time
<shauno> other than that, 6am on morning after the ubuntu-uk christmas do may not be the best time to ask, so you might want to stick around a while :)
<Zarathustraz> okay cheers for response
<Zarathustraz> found  "think python: how to think like a computer scientist" seems good
<danfish> good morning!
<danfish> and an extra loud GOOD MORNING for all those who drank to excess at the xmas party last night :)
 * AlanBell moans softly in protest at danfish
 * danfish injects paracetamol and alkaseltzer into the channel
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> MySQL - any ideas how to time a query from the sql commandline?
<bigcalm> andylockran: it should tell you how long a query took to run by default
<andylockran> bigcalm: know how to alter the precision of that?
<andylockran> at the moment it's only to two decimal places
<andylockran> 5 rows in set (0.88 sec)
<andylockran> for example
<bigcalm> andylockran: not something I've looked into
<diplo> Seems only way is to use some perl/php or similair and microtime it ?
<diplo> start and finish and work out the difference
<diplo> Can't find a way in mysql itself
<andylockran> set profiling=1
<diplo> But doesn't increase the milisecs does it ?
<andylockran> http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/using-new-query-profiler.html
<andylockran>  show profiles;
<daubers> Morning
<bigcalm> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ5u2DsZHQs
<Phineas> i have returned
<Phineas> on my laptop that is
<Ferb> I am back
<Phineas> horray he's back
<Ferb> who me?
<Phineas> yeah you, you re my brother
<Ferb> oh yeah thats right
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Working Together To Get Unity Ready For Natty - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/12/22/working-together-to-get-unity-ready-for-natty/
<Phineas> just to let you know Ferb is my brother
<Ferb> ive gotta go and work on the mega rolercoster bue
<Ferb> bye
<Phineas> bye Ferb
<Phineas> there goes my brother
 * Phineas detects this channel is dead
<Phineas> yep this channel is dead alright
<dwatkins> hiya
<Phineas> until now
<Phineas> hi
<dwatkins> hi Phineas - do you use dropbox?
<dwatkins> just curious, as I see it has a linux client
<Phineas> dwatkins,  no i don't sorry
<dwatkins> no worries, I'll have to actually go find some reviews of it online ;-)
<dwatkins> http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/15-free-guides-teach-stuff/ mentioned it, and they're usually pretty savvy
<dwatkins> also, I need to make a USB pendrive with useful stuff on it
<Guest60001> hello guys its me majdekalel
<dwatkins> hi Guest60001
<dwatkins> majdekalel, that is...
<Guest60001> i removed ubuntu and now i'm installing Backtrack4
<Guest60001> its amazing
<daubers> dwatkins: Dropbox is quite useful
<dwatkins> thanks daubers
<daubers> dwatkins: Quite a few phone clients for it too
<Guest60001> backtrack is very close to ubuntu ?
<dwatkins> yeah, that could be really handy in terms of storing things I might randomly need access to, daubers
<Guest60001> is there any relation ?
<dwatkins> What distro is backtrack based on, Guest60001?
<diplo> ubuntu last time i tried it dwatkins
<Guest60001> 4
<Guest60001> i dont know !
<Guest60001> i think its ubuntu !
<dwatkins> What does its documentation, homepage, wikipedia entry etc. say, Guest60001?
<Guest60001> i'm installing it right now !
<Guest60001> when i open the doc i will tell you !
<Guest60001> but its very close to ubuntu
<Phineas> f@@@@ it didn't work
<dwatkins> What didn't Phineas?
<Phineas> firing up a pc thats about 10 years old (fail)
<Phineas> it just doesn't wanna know
<Phineas> boot up and turn off on a loop, thats what i get
<dwatkins> not entirely surprising, but if you reduce it down to the essential components, perhaps a single fault will present itself
<dwatkins> i.e. take out any PCI cards not required for booting and disconnect everything but the boot disk
<Phineas> fingers crossed this will work
<Phineas> bios beep, thats a good sign
<Phineas> windows 3.1 boot screen
<dwatkins> What did you change, Phineas?
<Phineas> trying to boot againforced shut down automatically, now
<Phineas> forced shut down automatically, now thers a bios beep 9not usal beep) and it restarts
<Phineas> i didnt change anything just tried it aGAIN
<Phineas> beep code 2-1-3
<Phineas> 3-1-3
<Phineas> sorry
<Phineas> 3-1-3
<Phineas> acording to google this means
<Phineas> 	Master interrupt mask register failure
<Phineas> what does this mean
<MartijnVdS> that your interrupt controler is confused :)
<Phineas> this could be why it all of a sudden reboots during startup (splash screen then reboot)
<Phineas> controler IC has failed
<MartijnVdS> yes
<Phineas> how do i solve this
<MartijnVdS> get a soldering iron, replace IC
<Phineas> whats IC?
<MartijnVdS> integrated circuit ("chip")
<daubers> Assuming it's not a resistor or something on the board that's gone and the IC is confused because it's not getting a clear signal
<MartijnVdS> it's either a bit of the CPU (easy to replace) or part of the mainboard
<MartijnVdS> daubers: or one of those exploding caps
<Phineas> how do i know what is is
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Heh, they where fun
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: very hard to determine unless you have a background with electronics/electronic engineering
<Phineas> no i havnt
<MartijnVdS> daubers: you have a strange definition of "fun" :)
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  you just reminded me of a pc i have to fix (something went bang = beep code)
<kvarley> popey: I'm addicted to Minecraft
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Anything that explodes is fun by defintion!
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  you just reminded me of a pc i have to fix (something went bang = beep code)
<Phineas> anyway back to the issue
<dwatkins> Capacitors are easy enough to replace if it's one or two, but don't try replacing all 50 on an iMac motherboard.
<Phineas> there are loads of capacitors and stuff like that how do i know what the issue is
<MartijnVdS> it's hard to know for sure these days
<dwatkins> Phineas: check if any of them are bulged at the top, there's a good page on wikipedia which describes the electrolyte problem
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
<daubers> Phineas: First step is to open the machine up, carefully clean out all the dust and rubbish and see if there are any damaged components on the board (black areas on the board are a giveaway, but not necessaily visible). Sometimes you just have to sit with a multimeter and test each one in turn
<Silver_Fox_> Hello.
<hoover> Hello
<Silver_Fox_> Hello hoover . How are you?
<selinuxium> Mornign all! :)    o/
<Silver_Fox_> Hello selinuxium . How are you?
<selinuxium> Silver_Fox_, not bad at all thank you :)
<selinuxium> Silver_Fox_, your good self?
<Phineas> daubers,  found sevrial capasitors which have vented via the top and one is very slightly leaking
<directhex_> yay! plague!
<daubers> Phineas: Yup, You could attempt to replace them. Depending on whether the machine is worth it or not
<daubers> Phineas: You'd need to find equivalent capacitors to replace them
<Phineas> i don't know what type of capasitors they are
<daubers> and then solder them on. But a lot of motherboards are multilayer, so it can be an absolute pig to get right
<Phineas> i'll give it a try
<daubers> There's normally a band on capacitors either giving their capacity (in uF) or a part number
<Phineas> in the mean time i'm going to try an slightly older matchine and see if it boots (have checked stuff on circit boards, look ok)
<Phineas> time for the count down till boot up
<Phineas> count me down
<Phineas> 5
<Phineas> 4
<Phineas> 3
<Phineas> 2
<Phineas> 1
<MartijnVdS> *BOOM*
<Phineas> boot up time ,15 year old pc no signs of bad stuff on circit board
 * Phineas hits the power button
<daubers> Phineas: http://www.badcaps.net/forum/ might help with the caps
<Phineas> HOLY S@@@
<Phineas> when i pressed the power button something went bang
<Apacheuk> I have the opportunity of a 32" HD (full 1080p) TV, it has a VGA PC input, my question is would this work well as a monitor? I fairly certain my graphics card would be able to handle it
<MartijnVdS> It should work
<MartijnVdS> If it has HDMI or DVI in that would be even better
<MartijnVdS> but plain old VGA should work
<Phineas> damn it the pc tripped the switch
<Phineas> what went bang?
<Apacheuk> don't think it has DVI
<MartijnVdS> Apacheuk: an hdtv with no hd inputs?! :)
<MartijnVdS> Apacheuk: it should have HDMI at least
<Apacheuk> it has 3 HDMI inputs
<ormiret> HDMI and DVI are kind of the same - the right cabel can go from one to the other
<MartijnVdS> Apacheuk: most new graphics cards and mainboards have HDMI out
<Apacheuk> the way its been described to me it sounds like a standard VGA input
<Phineas> what went bang when i pressed the power button?
<ormiret> Phineas: whatever the smoke is now coming from?
<Apacheuk> let me check.... need to crawl under the desk
<Apacheuk> graphics card just has 2 DVI outputs
<Phineas> i see no smoke, only a tiny (very tiny) amount of smoke
<MartijnVdS> Apacheuk: You can buy DVI to HDMI converters/cables
<Apacheuk> yeah... card is a GForce8800 GT
<Phineas> something small went bang as everything looks intact
<MartijnVdS> Apacheuk: the converters don't depend on the graphics card :)
<Apacheuk> yeah, I figured that... was just mentioning the card as a side
<Phineas> whets small in a pc and goes bang?
<Phineas> sometimes
<Apacheuk> OK, well thats settled then.... looks like I have a nearly *new* monitor for Christmas :)
<Apacheuk> Phineas: thats sounds like a Christmas cracker joke :)
<Phineas> i cant see what went bang, all looks ok, but it wont boot
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: probably a capacitor
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  do they go bang?
<dwatkins> Phineas: perhaps the powersupply tripped
<ormiret> Phineas: if it's not booting at all tehn it's probably something in the power supply. Be careful poking at it, they can hold quite a bit of charge even after unplugged.
<Phineas> it cant be the power suply as the motherboard has a power led which is on
<ormiret> That only proves one rail actually has power on it.
<Phineas> so what could it be
<ormiret> Just about anything, this isn't really something you can figure out easilly over IRC.
<Phineas> heres a photo of a circit board from the pc
<Phineas> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Vp6_blown_capacitor.jpg
<ormiret> General debugging procedure for a dead machine: remove all non-essencial components, if it still doesn't boot swap out essential components for known good ones till it does.
<dwatkins> Phineas: I'd be tempted to recycle the PC and get a new one
<Phineas> ok that image was of the internet
<dwatkins> yeah, I assume yours is as bad, Phineas
<Phineas> dwatkins,  the 10 year old pc looks like that
<Phineas> this pc has one exploaded cap in it
<dwatkins> yeah, Phineas, I guess you need to ask yourself if it's worth replacing the components
<Phineas> i don't know what type of cap the one that expoaded
<Silver_Fox_> I am fine thank you selinuxium .  :)
 * directhex_ is cutting ties
<dwatkins> Burning bridges, directhex_?
<directhex_> dwatkins: wiping my office computers
<dwatkins> sorry, just being silly
<directhex_> the osx installer is obliterating my triple-boot imac
<dwatkins> ooh, I want to triple-boot my Macbook
<dwatkins> I got a windows game recently, and would like to also run a linux on it if possible
<bigcalm> AlanBell: have you been eating popey's mincepies?
<popey> they were AlanBells :)
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> Morning :)
<bigcalm> popey: see the vid I pasted?
<popey> no
<bigcalm> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ5u2DsZHQs
<Silver_Fox_> popey,  I liked your snowman
<popey> his nose fell out
<popey> ooo and an eye
<popey> looking a bit sad now
<dwatkins> aww
<Silver_Fox_> Maybe he should get patched up ?
<dwatkins> directhex_: I think I'd best do a complete backup first
<directhex_> dwatkins: the only caveat with tri-booting a mac is you're limited to 4 partitions total with dodgy mac GPT/MBR duality, and one is already taken by EFI data... so you get ONE linux partition only.
<directhex_> no /boot partition, no swap partition
<dwatkins> directhex_: swap can live in a file, so I imagine that's ok
<dwatkins> also, who needs swap with 4GB of RAM? ;-)
<directhex_> dwatkins: yes swap can live in a file, well remembered
<directhex_> and you need swap of at least the same size as ram if you want to suspend-to-disk
<dwatkins> ah yes, although I wonder if that works on a triple-boot Mac...
<directhex_> also, use refit not bootcamp as your boot loader
<directhex_> chain-load grub from refit to boot linux
<czajkowski> Aloha
<KrisWillis> Ooo my VLC icon is wearing a santa hat
<niall> KrisWillis, cool innit? :)
<niall> That.. err, easter egg, has been in VLC for years and years
<daubers> czajkowski: o/
<daubers> czajkowski: All calmed down now you made it home?
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> fry up being arranged now
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> nyomy
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> artery clogging goodness
<diplo> bah you are making me hungry!!!!!
<czajkowski> sausssages
<czajkowski> fried eggs
<czajkowski> brown bread
<czajkowski> tea
<czajkowski> oh some rashers as well
<selinuxium> czajkowski, Grrr... I haven't even had brekky yet!
 * selinuxium decides that food is now the only option... Tools down.
<popey> anyone got a DS lite they want to sell?
<popey> friend of mine has one that has gone pop
<czajkowski> selinuxium: you're going to begrudge me a fry up !
<_H> mmmm -8 and my lips are bleeding
<_H> :/
<dutchie> czajkowski: now you've made me want a fry up :(
 * bigcalm grins and burps
<davmor2> czajkowski: Yes you got to Ireland didn't you we don't need to be nice anymore :P
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: you'll miss my poking!
<daubers> Hmm interesting bug
 * bigcalm pokes minecraft and its lack of text
<czajkowski> hmm empathy wont connect on my home connection
<davmor2> czajkowski: what bit of empathy won't
<czajkowski> davmor2: wont connect to my jabber client
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<popey> ah MattJ
<MattJ> Me \o/
<popey> need to badger you about prosody at some point
<MattJ> Badgers \o/
<MattJ> Snow \o/
<czajkowski> popey: how was last night ?
<popey> i configured it as per the site and it doesn't work :(
<SuperMatt> people hilighting matt \o/
<MattJ> popey: define "doesn't work"?
<popey> but I dont have time to go through it right now
<MattJ> k
<daubers> hooray!
<daubers> Everyones favourite bug description
<daubers> "Doesn't work"
<MattJ> :)
<popey> bah
<popey> it didnt like my domain
<MattJ> It should be on the list of things not to say
<popey> i have since wiped the machine and reinstalled
<popey> so need to start again
<popey> the documentation did seem lacking
<MattJ> Lies!
<popey> someone here told me to maintain some global config file which wasnt mentioned in the doc I read
<MattJ> The main problem I have with the Prosody docs is people not reading what's there, or expecting else there to be something that isn't there
<MattJ> There is only one config file
<MattJ> Oh, the Debian package splits it :(
<MattJ> I don't like that, but I don't have any hard reason to get it changed
<popey> I'll take another look later
<MattJ> Ping me, I should be around
<popey> but I _did_ read the docs
<MattJ> or say Jabber and I'll magically appear
<daubers> MattJ: Yeah, the debian packages moves the domains stuff out
<popey> heh
<popey> yeah, thats the issue I had, it didn't accept that it was the jabber server for my domain
<MattJ> daubers: Yeah. Nominally I'm the maintainer, but I didn't do that and don't like it much
<popey> anwway.. ater
<MattJ> See you
 * MattJ goes to dig some snow
<czajkowski> davmor2: any idea
<selinuxium> czajkowski, No my dear, I would not not even consider such an act... :)
<czajkowski> selinuxium: :)
<exobuzz> afternoon
<davmor2> czajkowski: sorry any idea as to what?  Why your jabber won't connect?
<czajkowski> aye
<davmor2> czajkowski: Sorry not a clue I don't use jabber other than when services use it, popey is possibly a better bet for that
<czajkowski> davmor2: cheers
 * czajkowski pokes popey any idea ? jabber will not connect in home over here 
<davmor2> czajkowski: Where is the server?
<MattJ> czajkowski: where to? What's the error?
<czajkowski> davmor2: MattJ one is my gmail and one is @siriusit.co.uk neither will connect under empathy or pidgin
<diplo> Was going to suggest pidgin, I have had nothing but issues with connectivity with empathy in last 2 releases
<diplo> Could never find the issue to resolve it.
<diplo> Or raise a bug as i didn't know the cause
<davmor2> czajkowski: can you access your gmail account and can you use gtalk from the browser, also can you use gtalk on your mobile?
<MattJ> czajkowski: sounds like a network/firewall issue then
<czajkowski> davmor2: aye I can
<czajkowski> MattJ: hmmm
<czajkowski> shall poke later
<czajkowski> thanks
<pwuertz> numpy
<nperry> How about some coolwhip
<Ferb> hi Ferb here
<Silver_Fox_> Hello Ferb
<Ferb> I am Phineas s brother
<Daviey> erk... popey is offline!
<directhex> Daviey, not anymore. Xmas is saved!
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/12/22/s03e23-departure-of-a-grand-old-man/
<popey> including pantomime!
<bigcalm> In my twitter stream, popey's re-tweet of UUPC appears before UUPC
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> The world is mad!
<davmor2> bigcalm: only the twitter world, real world is way more insane
<gr33npeace> hello all
<gr33npeace> anyone had problems connecting to Skype?  I'm getting a "p2p connection" error... very strange
<gr33npeace> only started this afternoon, and there haven't been any updates to my box
<popey> 16:27:33 < jcastro> according to the internet Skype was down worldwide for 10-15 minutes
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S03E23  Departure of a Grand Old Man - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/12/22/s03e23-departure-of-a-grand-old-man/
<gr33npeace> popey, thanks... still borked for me!!  :)  In Brasil... could be the problem?
<popey> no idea
<gord> oh
<gord> that will be why skype crashed for no reason for me
<davmor2> gord: no that's just you :P
<gr33npeace> gord, did come back up ok?
<gord> gr33npeace, havn't tried to start it back up yet
<gr33npeace> gord, ok thanks... looks like their forums have fallen over as well... not boding well!
<popey> hope it does completely
<popey> *dies
<gord> yeah skype isn't connecting for me, ho-hum, wanted to play some online games with friends tonight as well :(
<matti> popey: ;]
 * MattJ confesses, he unplugged Skype
<dutchie> so people would use Jabber (\o/) instead?
<MattJ> Of course \o/
<andylockran> czajkowski: jabber uses 5222 - attempt to telnet to talk.google.com on 5222
<andylockran> if the fw has blocked it
<andylockran> then either disable fw or ssh proxy :p ssh -D 2345 work.server.com
<andylockran> then set proxy to localhost:2345 socksv5 :)
<directhex> omg omg omg omg steam sale day 3 starts any second now
<ali1234> wow, this ubuntu software centre thing really sucks
<ali1234> it took a really long time to install the software, then popped an error message, then claimed the software was installed
<ali1234> so now i have no idea if the software installed properly or not, or even if the package database is even in a working state
<ali1234> nice job, whoever coded this...
<dutchie> filed a bug?
<ali1234> which package should i file a bug against?
<dutchie> software-center would be a good start
<ali1234> where are the logs for software centre?
<andylockran> ali1234: what package were you installing
<ali1234> skype
<directhex> i still use aptitude for everything
<dutchie> i typed "aptiget" the other day
<andylockran> ali1234: have you gone to Applications>Internet>Skype to see if it's there?
<ali1234> no, because this machine does not have that, it is running UNR
<andylockran> what about alt+f2 then type skype?
<ali1234> besides, it wasn't skype that caused the error
<ali1234> it was libasound2
<ali1234> which apparently failed during "installArchives()"
<andylockran> run apt-get install -f
<ali1234> oh yeah, skype doesn't show in synaptic etc by default, because it is in the partner repo
<andylockran> that'll check if anything is broken gets fixed
<ali1234> it only shows up in software centre
<ali1234> hence why i used it
<ali1234> that and because that's what the skype installation page tells you to do (on the wiki)
<andylockran> right - I'm to bed
<andylockran> night
<MattJ> nn
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MattJ> Gah, email is down!
<zleap> nooooo
<MartijnVdS> all email in the world?!
<MattJ> All the email in the world!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Well, thats about all we have time for - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2010/12/22/well-thats-about-all-we-have-time-for/
<jacobw> is anyone else fed up of Christmas yet?
<MartijnVdS> \o
<gord> that tends to happen to me around october
<MartijnVdS> gord: Christmas stuff doesn't start until mid-december here, because mid-november - early-december we have "Sinterklaas"
<jacobw> tell us more
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas
<jacobw> interesting :)
<MartijnVdS> gym time  :)
<jacobw> chinese food time for me
<neptune> what is the system call for a context switch?
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: news years resolution for you, you can only poke onces a week
<AlanBell> nice new podcast featuring 4 separate chicken noises
<czajkowski> davmor2: well...
<davmor2> czajkowski: That only has been once this week
<davmor2> :P
<davmor2> czajkowski: normally it's only once a day to annoy^^say hello :D
<czajkowski> new rule
<czajkowski> once a week
<czajkowski> :)
<ali1234> is skype still down?
<MattJ> Hopefully
<daubers> Evening
<zleap> evening
<jacobw> evening
<jacobw> does histogram mean something different in american english?
<daubers> jacobw: The graph?
<jacobw> yeah..
<gr33npeace> ali1234, think it's still down.. I can't access it
<jacobw> cos i'm stuck on the exercise about histograms in K&R C, and the example solution on the net all appear to be bar charts
<jacobw> solutions even
<danfish> evening
<danfish> any suggestions for a program to illustrate a 'framework' I'm trying to develop
<danfish> inkscape seems overkill
<MattJ> danfish: it's over-simplistic for some things, but I've always liked Labyrinth
<danfish> MattJ: tx
 * danfish installs labyrinth
 * daubers has been given a copy of omnigraffle pro by the office to play with
<daubers> unfortunatley not Linuxy though :(
<danfish> MattJ: that looks spot on - thanks muchly
<MattJ> Excellent :)
<danfish> daubers: that does look rather nice.
<daubers> danfish: Just installing it
<czajkowski> danfish: any luck with your strange request about getting notifcation if people read stuff
<danfish> czajkowski: no, not really, but it was a weird request I agree. I was just getting fustrated with people making dumb excuses for not reading important stuff
<danfish> I'm moving stuff to alfresco in the new year, so a level of control/audit should be available
<cr215> hello everyone...   i notice that in evolution you can view a contacts birthday in the calender but can someone tell me where to enter the contacts birthday in the first place?
<danfish> glad you got home BTW :) I calculate your average speed to be approx 7mph btw
<czajkowski> danfish: heh
<czajkowski> it was unusal as in if it was a common thing everyone would use it
<danfish> czajkowski: I see what you mean. Maybe it's an area for exploration?
<cr215> so how is everyone this week?
<czajkowski> danfish: well you'd have thought by now college folks would have it nailed :)
<czajkowski> I agree it's annoying but one would hope professionals would read material you send them and not need to baby sit them
<danfish> czajkowski: true, but 1) professionalism is being eroded I feel and 2) the rise of the lawyers - grrrrr :(
<davmor2> czajkowski: Told you it would of been quicker to swim
<danfish> where'd davmor2 go?
<Azelphur> Skype down for everyone else?
<Azelphur> I get signed in and it just shows the grey connecting icon in notification area.
<Laney> looks like it
<gr33npeace> Azelphur, it's been down for me all afternoon mate
<Azelphur> fail \o/
<gr33npeace> Azelphur, I don't even get signed it... I just get the error:  "p2p connect failed"
<Azelphur> nice
<gr33npeace> Azelphur, looks worldwide
<gr33npeace> Azelphur, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/22/skype/
<daubers> danfish: Think I prefer dia from omnigraffle tbh..
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] TÃ¡im sa bhaile - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/12/22/taim-sa-bhaile/
<danfish> daubers: I just need something that slightly more advanced than pen and paper to sketch out some ideas with mqtt/mosquitto and django
<daubers> danfish: I see :) I used to swear by dia
<mgdm> I've sworn at Dia
<daubers> It has some weird quirks
<gr33npeace> Azelphur, latest from skype: http://twitter.com/#!/Skype
<Azelphur> \o/
<popey> be nice if skype burned in a hole
<popey> right, shops!
<Azelphur> popey: indeed it would
<gr33npeace> popey, why the skype bashing?  I'm no massive advocate, but interested where the firey hatred comes from! :)
<Azelphur> gr33npeace: lack of Linux support?
<gr33npeace> Azelphur, (normally) works ok here...  :)
<Azelphur> crashes and freezes continually here
<Azelphur> also windows is on v5, Linux is on v2
<gr33npeace> yeah... but have you seen how it looks on windows?  with facebook feeds and all sorts... happier with the simple linux v!
<gr33npeace> that's a point, have you made any voice calls over jabber/gtalk ?
<MartijnVdS> gr33npeace: I HAVE
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> I have
<MartijnVdS> and it works great
<gr33npeace> ah cool... good decent sound/mic quality?
<gr33npeace> did you call from the browser, or from empathy/pidgin?
<MartijnVdS> empathy
<MartijnVdS> quality was as good as could be expected from built-in laptop mic and cam
 * TheOpenSourcerer has just done the Sainsbury's Mega shop... Fridges full. Garage acting as a larder.
<gr33npeace> cool, will give that a shot from now on!!  Cheers MartijnVdS !
<Guest32243> Hi is this the correct channel for help with ubuntu server
<MartijnVdS> sure
<MartijnVdS> ask away
<Guest32243> I am running Ubuntu Server Oracle VBox
<Guest32243> and it is refusing the connect to the network i have already done the normal stuff it is not playing any ideas
<MartijnVdS> vbox = virtualbox?
<Guest32243> ya
<suprengr> TheOpenSourcerer: I also did a Sainsbury dance today... eency wency fridge full, anything not fitting is left in car - it's colder than fidge! oh ... beer rack now full
<suprengr> ;)
<MartijnVdS> Guest32243: do other guests get network?
<Guest32243> no
<suprengr> ...& o/ to all.... internet conxn now recovered.
<Guest32243> i am trying to ping the 192 range on my router from ubuntu from the vbox and it is commign back with unknown host
<MartijnVdS> Guest32243: I've never used virtualbox, but you might want to look at setting up networking/bridging properly
<Guest32243> i am trying to ping the 192 range on my router from ubuntu from the vbox and it is commign back with unknown host
<Guest32243> will ubuntu run on a virtual platform
<Guest32243> has any one tried it
<MartijnVdS> Guest32243: I've run Ubuntu on kvm, and you really need to set up networking properly
<MartijnVdS> Guest32243: either by bridging, or by setting up routing between subnets properly
<MartijnVdS> it won't work otherwise
<Guest32243> ok i tried to bridge but that didnt work
<Guest32243> still no joy
<MartijnVdS> Guest32243: how did you try it?
<MartijnVdS> you need to bridge the virtual interface with your "real" ethernet interface, and then set all "local" settings on the bridge interface
<Guest32243> ya thats what i did
<MartijnVdS> then the virtual machine will look like it's part of the local lan (like a regular machine)
<Guest32243> ya thats what i did
<MartijnVdS> how did you do it? some HOWTO you followed?
<Guest32243> any other ideas
<Guest32243> no the normal what you bridge a network and set up the ip to auto
<Guest32243> under the bridged network interface
<MartijnVdS> yes, and you bridged the virtual network interface (created by vbox) and eth0 together?
<MartijnVdS> on the _host_
<MartijnVdS> (and then just run dhclient or whatever on the guest)
<Guest32243> eth0 my network card on my machine yes
<MartijnVdS> have you tried sniffing around with a packet sniffer (wireshark, for example)
<Guest32243> no
<MartijnVdS> THat's what I'd do next
<MartijnVdS> on the host, check which interface packets from the guest are arriving at
<MartijnVdS> (if at all)
<MartijnVdS> then brige eth0 and that interfac
<MartijnVdS> probably tap0 or tun0 or something
<Guest32243> ok i will install wireshark and see what i get
<MartijnVdS> good luck :)
<Guest32243> bye for now i will be on after work tomz night
<MartijnVdS> maybe some other people (who _have_ tried vbox) will be awake then :)
<alex24> howdy guys
<Guest32243> ok
<matti> ;]
<bittin> Hi somone knows about great android websites, podcasts and forums etc?
<dogmatic69> http://android-developers.blogspot.com/
<jacobw> xda-developers
<ali1234> so the skype downtime thing is on bbc news website, but not slashdot
<AlanBell> because nothing of value was lost
<MattJ> :)
<ali1234> no, it's because slashdot is run by robots now
<AlanBell> I hardly ever bother to start skype any more, nobody seems to use it
<Yorvyk> It appears to be only used by podcasters these days
<ali1234> i didn't realise you guys were so badly out of touch
<ali1234> skype is heavily used by small businesses
 * dutchie was about to point out that everyone i know is on skype
<dutchie> big use by students phoning home/each other
<ali1234> i mean i know you all live in linux land where video calling doesn't even work
<dutchie> in my experience
<ali1234> but still, it's like you have never even seen how a modern business actually operates
<AlanBell> I have about a hundred contacts, maybe 30 or so are online most of the time, none of them use it to talk to me
<AlanBell> I used to use it when I was a Notes developer
<Yorvyk> I havenât seen a business that uses it very much.
<Laney> video calling does work
<AlanBell> we do use it a few times a year to do video calls to my brother-in-law in the states
<popey> we use it at work heavily as an IM system
<popey> it's kinda frowned upon if you dont have a skype account
<popey> even though we have microsoft communicator
<popey> some people are firewalled off, so we use skype to get to talk to people ms communicator can't get to
<AlanBell> the nice thing about it is that it always works through proxies and firewalls somehow
<ali1234> that's why it is so popular - it requires zero configuration unlike SIP and all those others
<AlanBell> I used to use it when setting up Lotus Sametime with someone at a remote site, we would install skype then use that to talk through the firewall port settings to get Sametime working
<ali1234> even if you know how to run your own SIP - nobody who wants to call you knows how to configure their end, therefore it failed
<AlanBell> yeah SIP is only really used from PBX to desktop then standard phone network to get to where you want to call
<ali1234> which means you can't use it for free calls, which is the only reason to use voip in a small business
<AlanBell> not quite the only reason
<AlanBell> calls are cheap anyway
<ali1234> i reckon someone figured out how to ddos the skype supernodes....
<AlanBell> yeah, they are not really saying what the problem was at all
<popey> sounds likely
<AlanBell> taken offline by a problem affecting some versions of skype . . .
<AlanBell> sounds like someone might have used the skype clients to ddos the nodes
<ali1234> or they attacked a specific protocol version
<ali1234> or perhaps they poisoned the supernode list somehow (putting up fake supernodes)
<ali1234> i'm sure we'll find out tomorrow... but not from slashdot
<AlanBell> and not from skype
<ali1234> they may not even know yet
<ali1234> given how distributed the system is, could be difficult to know why nodes are dying
<hamitron> :/
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-23
 * popey wonders what you have to do to incurr virgin throttling
<popey> I've been downloading at ~1.5-2MB/s constantly for about 12 hours.
<Craig_Dem> :(
<Craig_Dem> 8 Meg Bt here.
<Craig_Dem> I want Infinity so badly.
<directhex> i wonder about infinity
<directhex> i get 16 down, 1.6 up, unmetered. infinity would mean 40 down, 8 up, with a "fair use" cap of 300 gig, and some unstated traffic shaping
<exobuzz> directhex, note the cap is 300gb of up and down combined also.
<neptune> dafs
<nigelb> Morning folks
<nigelb> How did the Christmas party go?
<hwwpn> hii
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> nigelb: Was very good
<GreenDance> Hi All
<GreenDance> I was wondering, apart from performance, why should a server not have a GUI?
<nigelb> daubers: \o/
<daubers> GreenDance: Complexity is one reason I see relativley frequently
<AlanBell> GreenDance: personally I don't believe performance is a valid reason not to have a GUI on a server
<MartijnVdS> X has crashed my machine more than anything else
<MartijnVdS> if I want a server that keeps working, I don't want a gui
<AlanBell> having stuff to update that isn't being used much is a reasonable reason
<GreenDance> AlanBell: so a GUI on a server is ok?
 * popey looks at a list of hundreds of servers here where they all have x
<AlanBell> OK by me
<popey> and performance is not even remotely a reason
<AlanBell> other opinions are available
<MartijnVdS> popey: I'm not saying nobody should, I'm saying I wouldn't :)
<popey> sure :)
<popey> personal preference
<AlanBell> I wouldn't stick 3d drivers on it or anything like that
<popey> i suspect that x crashing isnt a good enough reason either MartijnVdS
<AlanBell> when logged out GDM takes hardly any resources
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "It's a UNIX system, I know this!"
<popey> heh
<popey> cue girl holding mouse like an idiot
<MartijnVdS> popey: unless it takes the whole system with it
<popey> no, you miss the point
<popey> the reason x crashes on the desktop, you wouldn't do the same things on the server
<popey> e.g. running evolution, gnome panel etc
<GreenDance> popey: i'm supprised x crashes?
<GreenDance> popey: I thought X was stable?
<MartijnVdS> GreenDance: it's software. It has bugs.
<popey> GreenDance: i never said it wasnt stable
<daubers> popey: You say that... one reason I had someone tout ast me for not having a GUI was so people couldn't do that
<AlanBell> X is pretty stable, 3d drives when stressed can sometimes be an issue
<GreenDance> popey: i know, i just thought from browsing site, reading docs, i thought x was stable
<popey> define stable
<popey> "doesn't crash ever" - not true
<popey> "crashes less often than is annoying" - more true
<GreenDance> popey: something that doesn't crash
<popey> nothing doesn't crash ever
<AlanBell> if you want a gui so you can run a few terminal windows and gedit and a browser to look up documents and stuff when you need to fix things then go for it
<diplo> Have a gui also adds more security risks, as there is more to exploit, not that it's really an issue but it's another layer of complexity
<popey> I'm currently running x on a 12 way opteron box (vnc)
<popey> we use vnc here heavily
<popey> because many server linux apps require a gui
<popey> and whilst we could use remote x, we tend to use vnc so people can easily share sessions
<diplo> I wish there we're more apps like rapache for linux, a remote gui to connect tolinuxboxes
<GreenDance> diplo: mentioned a gui can be exploited?
<daubers> I've often wondered why bits of software don't have an admin tcp channel, so you could run the gui admin app from your desktop sending all the config over tcp (preferably through some secure channel like ssh)
<diplo> No, I'm saying that it's another layer of security risks, you get more levels of exploits as you have more applications running.
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<GreenDance> without a GUI is the core-os rock solid?
<diplo> Less programs running you don't need the less stuff to be checked for security ( updates etc ) as popey said it's not the be all, we don't run them to save ourselves another layer of issues.
<diplo> As rock as your are going to get, with it's still stable.. it's preference as others have put it already
<diplo> We do run some servers with GUI, but if i'm installing it I rarely do install GUI
<AlanBell> also depends a bit on what other machines are about
<diplo> I'm quite happy with ssh and vi
<popey> yeah, entirely depends on who the admin is
<GreenDance> who the admin is?
<popey> as to whether you have a gui or not
<GreenDance> <- me
<GreenDance> oh
<popey> i.e. the people here have a gui, i dont
<GreenDance> i understand :)
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12059969
<AlanBell> what a great tradition to bring to the UK for next year I feel
<MartijnVdS> that was on QI once
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJxHHP-aTOc
<AlanBell> wifey says we can't get a Caganer :(
<daubers> AlanBell: heh, you've been told!
 * daubers makes a new branch of some code
<bigcalm> This is one of the disadvantages of being in any co-habitation relationship ;)
<kazade> morning all
<bigcalm> Evening
<kazade> bigcalm, I'm so hungover that I just looked out the window to check..
<bigcalm> Heh
<kazade> my first thought was "is it?"
<bigcalm> After last night's meal, I wont need to eat until Saturday
<bigcalm> Speaking of which, I need to send my boss the bill
<danfish> morning
<danfish> bigcalm now has a bigtummy ;)
<MartijnVdS> danfish: pregnancy?
<bigcalm> I think I'm close to the due date
<danfish> MartijnVdS: hah
<bigcalm> danfish: I now have a bigger tummy
<bigcalm> I had 2 pints of EPA last night. I've never had such bad gas, and it's still going on
<popey> lovely
<danfish> my wife won't let me drink certain ales due to the same reason
<bigcalm> popey: even I'm worried
<bigcalm> I think I'll stick to Spitfire
<danfish> there's a list on the kitchen noticeboard
<bigcalm> Hah
<bigcalm> a
<kazade> what... the...
<kazade> listening to the podcast..
<kazade> it just turned into Jackanory
<popey> :)
<popey> It's panto season!
<selinuxium> morning all   o/
<kazade> popey, I see..
<kazade> :p
<bigcalm> It's amusing if a little cheesy in places :)
<dwatkins> Oh no it isn't...
<popey> #blametony
<kazade> it's actually pretty good..
<kazade> :)
<popey> except my dodgy accent
<kazade> loving the voice of the cow ;)
<popey> we're getting a lot of comments about the cow
<AlanBell> thats no goose
<m4r35n357> help - authentication failure at login screen, recovery mode needs a root password - is there a way in?
<m4r35n357> I think this is going to be quite tricky if not impossible . . . .
<popey> the default behaviour doesn't ask for a password
<popey> have you set a root password?
<m4r35n357> no, I am worried that something is broken
<m4r35n357> no optical disk, system won't boot from USB
<popey> just boot to grub, press escape or hold shift to get the menu, highlight the first line and press 'e' to edit, go down to the 'kernel' line, e to edit, and at the end of the line add "rw init=/bin/bash" (without quotes)
<popey> which will boot you to a shell
<popey> where you can diagnose the issue
<m4r35n357> aha, I remember now, thanks!
<daubers> Or just change the password
<m4r35n357> forgot the init= option
<daubers> Using popeys method
<m4r35n357> OK off to try it now . . . . .
<popey> ...
<m4r35n357> OK, now in as root thanks!  Need to investigate hat happened . . .
<m4r35n357> really thx a lot !!!
<popey> np
<m4r35n357> hmm, the /etc/shadow file is empty!  there is a shadow- file but the filesystem is read only so I can't copy it across.  Shame I can't boot a live USB, don't have a spare machine to put the disk into, I think it's time to get a new machine
<screen-x> morning :)
<screen-x> So how are we all?
<popey> m4r35n357: did you do rw in the boot line as I suggested?
<m4r35n357> took out the "ro" in the kernel line in Grub, still can't copy shadow- to shadow (not even sure if it's the right thing to do!) as the filesystem is apparently still read-only despite /proc/mounts reporting rw
<popey> remount rw?
<m4r35n357> i'll try putting an expicit rw in (missed it the first time)
<m4r35n357> can you remind me of the remount command please - I forgot most of this stuff years ago ;)
<davmor2> morning all
<screen-x> morning davmor2
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski till her wakes up and gets on irc, pretending she has a life in the really world
<popey> mount -no remount,rw /
<m4r35n357> popey, cheers, actually putting the explicit rw in the kernel line has restored write access (still grateful for the remount command though) - now to see if I can fix mu user login
<popey> hello alangridge :)
<davmor2> popey: aq's brother?
<kazade> doh, just found redstone ore for the first time in Minecraft - only to destroy it with a stone pickaxe :/
<popey> hah
<kazade> I thought it was taking a while to break :(
<imexil> popey, just listening to latest episode. I guess other have suggested this before, but you should look at LastPass.com
<nperry> Odd, starting steam from terminal fails but opening it from menu doesn't
<popey> i finally managed to build a portal to the netherworld
<kazade> popey, I can never find anything but gravel and cobblestone
<popey> imexil: I'm using that now :)
<nperry> exactly the same line :s
<imexil> :)
<popey> kazade: dig down :)
<kazade> I did for fecking miles..
<popey> hehe
<kazade> then I found a cave with some lava and a piece of redstone ore
<popey> wish I could make my world available on a server
<kazade> which I mutilated
<kazade> I've just realized that I can sync my .minecraft folder on Ubuntu one :D
<popey> i sync mine on dropbox :)
<kazade> also, I've patched my minecraft.jar with 64x64 textures
<kazade> looks awesome
<popey> i come in on a monday morning and my laptop says "30327 files synced" :)
<screen-x> uh-oh
<kazade> popey, this is what mine looks like: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=97561
<kazade> well, the textures at least
 * kazade just realizes you can build ladders... no wonder it took me ages to dig down!
<kazade> I should really read the wiki
<popey> nice
<popey> heh
<nperry> Anyone able to log into skype?
<nperry> Can't seem to for some reason
<nperry> Ah good is my friend :)
<popey> wfm :)
<bigcalm> Yesterday afternoon was quiet with skype being down :)
<m4r35n357> oh well, looks like a lost cause - I can restore shadow from its backup, but on next reboot it is empty again,  I suspect a disk fault, although fsck -f -n reports no problems and ./lost+found is empty
<popey> :S
<selinuxium> Is it worth trying unity on 10.10?
<popey> no
<popey> next question?
<bigcalm> ;)
<selinuxium> popey, :)
<selinuxium> popey, Is that just against unity or is it a bag of bolts on 10.10?
<popey> I have yet to have a good experience with unity
<bigcalm> SVN repo view in trac, looking at the ages just now. branches: 6 weeks, tags: 6 months, trunk: 6 minutes
<bigcalm> I'm easily amused
<kazade> popey, does gravel have any useful purpose in Minecraft?
<davmor2> kazade: Yes I'm just not telling you what muhahahahahahahahahaha!
<kazade> davmor2, :(
<davmor2> kazade: have a look on the wikipedia minecraft page there is a big listing there of what is what
<kazade> yeah, I did... but gravel looked useless on there, I just wanted to clarify ;)
<kazade> grr, hit close instead of minimize
<nperry> Oh virtualbox 4
<selinuxium> popey, is that because of the paradigm shift or it just doesn't function as intended?
<m4r35n357> popey, fixed my login (well I still think there is a hw fault but I've bought a bit of time)
<m4r35n357> moved /etc/shadow to another area of disk, then restoring itfrom /etc/shadow- worked after a reboot
<m4r35n357> so the original location must be faulty (not nice I know)
<m4r35n357> so thanks again for the recovery pointers
 * gonzogeographer wakes
 * screen-x offers gonzogeographer some coffee
 * gonzogeographer offers thanks for the hot black stuff
<screen-x> its like everyone is on holiday or something..
 * bigcalm is still at work
<bigcalm> Tomorrow off though :)
<bigcalm> Then bugger all until the 4th
<bigcalm> Poor GF has to work for a couple of days next week though :(
 * screen-x is working tomorrow morning, and inbetween bank holidays
<screen-x> mostly because I used up all my annual leave sailing earlier on in the year :D
<bigcalm> Boss is closing the company for the holidays. I have no choice...
<bigcalm> Though, I do work from home. So could carry on working
<bigcalm> Don't think my GF would like that though
<bigcalm> Coor, look at the time. LUNCH!
<screen-x> lunch!? you've missed the boat on that, its almost time for afternoon tea
<bigcalm> I should wrap GF's presents really...
<directhex> WRAPPING TIME!
 * screen-x beatboxes
<denny> https://iamclu.deviantart.com/#/d35f9dc  # Tron tube map  :)
<screen-x> tron room at ice hotel: http://www.curatedmag.com/news/2010/12/10/tron-inspired-room-at-ice-hotel/
<screen-x> I was there yesterday :)
<denny> ooooooh
<denny> shineh  :)
<AlanBell> wow
 * AlanBell would like to go there one day
<screen-x> AlanBell: it is awesome...
<AlanBell> so what was the occasion?
<screen-x> Just visiting Sweden really.
<AlanBell> did you stay there?
<screen-x> one night in the ice hotel, in a "snow room" rather than an "art suite" such as the tron room, but during the day you can wonder round and have a look at all the rooms.
<AlanBell> awesome
<screen-x> they recommend you only wear one layer of clothing in their sleeping bags, it works well. I was warm despite ambient temp of -5.
 * AlanBell downloads Natty daily
<popey> what, every day!
<popey> *chortle*
<screen-x> haha
<AlanBell> oh popey you are so sharp you will cut yourself
<popey> bazinga!
<davmor2> AlanBell: Gdm doesn't seem to be working after the latest updates
 * AlanBell isn't scared
<screen-x> Yay, my wife has a interview for transferring to TVU in london, may be able to escape wales and make next years Christmas Party :)
<popey> quick! move the party to wales!
<screen-x> :p
<screen-x> There are other advantages to moving east..
<gonzogeographer> Cardiff?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: "Escape from Wales", sounds like a nice movie title :)
<screen-x> gonzogeographer: yeah
<screen-x> can anyone remember the vnstat switch to initialise an interface, I'm reading the man page but it isn't jumping out at me.
<popey> heh
<popey> http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/330
<popey> first hit for "vnstat initialise database"
<popey> vnstat -u -i <device>
<dwatkins> I must be tired, I read that as vmstat
<screen-x> heh, I suppose I should have googled... thanks popey
<popey> np
 * popey hugs vnstat
<screen-x> spot the welsh atlas probe :) http://atlas.ripe.net/
<Ferb> hi
<Ferb> this channel is quiet today
<AlanBell> hi Phineas
<Laney> ho ho hollo
<Ferb> xmas eve tomorrow
<Ferb> cant wait till xmas
<nperry> Wow, world of goo is awesome
<davmor2> nperry: it's not awesome but it is as addictive as hell :D
<Ferb> is it for android?
<MartijnVdS> it's for Mac, Windows, Linux
<MartijnVdS> they have debs
<Ferb> is it online?
<MartijnVdS> no, you install it
<nperry> davmor2: I would say awesome :P
<MartijnVdS> you can buy it online
<Ferb> does it work on mac odd 10.3? does it need an internet connection to work?
<MartijnVdS> Ferb: http://2dboy.com/games.php
<screen-x> mmm panther
<Ferb> http request was interrupted by host
<directhex> games work on 10.3?
<Ferb> yeah , badaboom
<Ferb> to name but a few
<Ferb> Badaboom is one if them
<directhex> osx didn't even get graphics drivers capable of throwing more than a couple of dozen polygons around a screen until 10.6.4
<MartijnVdS> directhex: like Linux!
<directhex> MartijnVdS, i'd rather use linux from a few years ago than macos from a few years ago for 3d
 * Ferb boots his mac running 10.3
<Ferb> it works, it boots
<Ferb> and its ready
<Ferb> I'll prove you wrong about graphic dirivers
<Ferb> I just got Badaboom to run
<Ferb> thats in 10.3
<Ferb> a bit laggy tho
<directhex> badaboom the nvidia GPU-based media encoder for windows?
<Ferb> that proves you guys wrong
<Ferb> nope the game
<Ferb> badaboom is a game as well, thats what I managed to run
<directhex> the flash-based puzzle game?
<Ferb> the full version of it
<Ferb> yeah the flash one. the dull version
<matti> :>
<directhex> the full version of a 2d, flash-based puzzle game from 2004
<directhex> that's your demonstration of the awesome gaming powers of mac os x 10.3, from... 2003
 * AlanBell thinks directhex isn't fully impressed just yet
<directhex> AlanBell, i'd love to hear how well left 4 dead runs
<Ferb> not quite one more game to try
<AlanBell> is it minesweeper?
<matti> AlanBell: :))
<directhex> AlanBell, which is a facetious request, because the game will outright not run on less than 10.6.4, which is the first release where apple completely rewrote their graphics drivers, because valve demonstrated they were completely unusable for gaming
<popey> Minecraft!
<Ferb> no, Tico
<Azelphur> My HTC Desire Z arrived :D
 * popey googles
<popey> wow, too many buttons
<Azelphur> popey: on the HTC desire z?
<popey> ya
<Azelphur> popey: just the way I like it :D
<Ferb> Tick runs smoothly on the same mac
<directhex> tico the tetris clone?
<Ferb> yep
<popey> throw away your xbox!
<directhex> you know these are things that should be smooth on a 486-dx2 66mhz, right?
<directhex> scratch that. a cyrix clone of a 486-dx2 66mhz
<Ferb> badaboom is not very smoo
<popey> my first pc was an 8086 Epson with mono only graphics
<popey> in fact mono text only
<popey> I _upgraded_ to hercules 720x576 graphics card !
<Ferb> the max even runs garageband
<Ferb> but the hdd is noisy
<directhex> popey, we didn't get a pc until late '94
<Ferb> I didn't get a pc until windows 95
<directhex> windows 95 is on the cusp of old enough to have had to jump through *proper* hoops to play games.
<popey> 1988 I think I got my pc
<matti> popey: I was 4 years old in 1988 :)
<dutchie> i was -4 :)
<matti> Hehe
<Ferb> are hard drives ment to be loud
<Ferb> ?
<AlanBell> yes, get an SSD if you don't like it
<screen-x> Ferb: yeah, I wear ear defenders when using my laptop
 * AlanBell isn't having fun installing natty
<screen-x> AlanBell: but you sounded so excited about it earlier!
<Azelphur> wtf, according to the speedtest.net app on android I'm getting 26kbps down and 2596kbps up
<Azelphur> what is this madness :S
<Ferb> tick tick tick squeek tick tick tick
<screen-x> Azelphur: I think there is a version of iperf for android
<screen-x> Azelphur: that should give you a more sensible measurement
<Ferb> thats what I hear
<Azelphur> screen-x: fun
<Azelphur> I think it's accurate though, I keep having network problems and can't load things :s
<screen-x> Waffle Phineas Ferb, I'm loosing track of your reincarnations
<screen-x> Azelphur: :(
<screen-x> Azelphur: mtr?
<Azelphur> screen-x: on android? lol
<directhex> hard disk noise is related to the speed, and the model, and the age.
 * Ferb starts reading Garfields twetith anniversary collection
<AlanBell> right now for me the natty alternate works in virtualbox but is a total fail on real hardware
<screen-x> Azelphur: ahh is it the 3g connection your having issues with?
<directhex> and the insulation in your case
<Azelphur> screen-x: yea
<AlanBell> doesn't get to the installer menu, just an unthemed grub menu
<directhex> i rarely hear my hard disks in motion
<Azelphur> woa, that's some innovative design
<screen-x> Azelphur: ?
<Azelphur> "FM Radio: You need a headset to work as an antenna. Please plug in your headset and try again"
<screen-x> heh
<Azelphur> when you run out of room on the inside ;)
<AlanBell> Azelphur: I have a few devices that use headphones as an antenna
<popey> every single battery operated portable radio of the size of a mobile phone (including mobile phones) have done that for years
<Azelphur> hehe, new to me
<popey> it's not room
<popey> you don't want one of those silver telescopic antennas sticking out of your phone
<popey> retro
<Azelphur> I suppose not :)
<Ferb> ha ha thats funny
<popey> might be funny :)
<Azelphur> actually that'd be kinda cool.
<screen-x> popey: I heard you had yours wrapped round the edge?
<popey> screen-x: nope, no fm in an iphone :p
<popey> FM is deprecated, didn't you hear? :)
<screen-x> well the aerial anyway...
<Azelphur> hehe indeed
<screen-x> Yeah free up FM spectrum for something more useful :)
<Azelphur> I need to root this so I can remove all the HTC bloat ware
 * hamitron hasn't moved off MW yet :/
<Azelphur> there's quite a bit of crud in here
<screen-x> sense?
<popey> ho ho ho
<Ferb> no the book I am reading is funny
<popey> welcome to android
<Azelphur> screen-x: yea
<Azelphur> popey: android isn't bloated, htc sense is ;)
<popey> its an android phone
<popey> it's sold as an andoird phone
<Azelphur> :p
<popey> hence my comment "welcome to android" was appropriate
<Azelphur> still probably gonna put cyanogen on it
<hamitron> is there a phone you can realistically roll out your own install?
<popey> yes
<screen-x> the freerunner doesn't count
<Azelphur> hamitron: you can with android, everyone does it
<popey> hamitron: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner
<popey> :)
<popey> why screen-x ?
<Azelphur> lol
<screen-x> popey: mostly because I've never seen one.
<popey> i have
<popey> used one for a while
<popey> i think I made maybe two successful phone calls on it
<Ferb> once again thats funny
<screen-x> popey: \o/ ?
<hamitron> sub Â£150 phone? ;/
<Azelphur> lol I'm testing flash
<popey> screen-x: two successful phone calls over a month period does not make a good phone
 * Azelphur smiles at popey
 * Azelphur runs
<screen-x> popey: no.
<screen-x> I suck at sarcasm in real life, so shouldn't even attempt it in irc..
<hamitron> at least nobody uses a phone for phone calls now? just a toy...
<dwatkins> Azelphur: what are you testing flahs on and for, I'm curious.
<Azelphur> dwatkins: android phone
<screen-x> flash is the only way to get iplayer on android :(
 * popey looks at the logs on his phone to see how much he uses it for phone calls
<Azelphur> dwatkins: I tested it with http://gprime.net/flash.php/youareapirate it worked :p
<Ferb> android phone = my phone
<Azelphur> smooth too
<popey> 20 hours since I have owned the phone
<screen-x> heh 11 hours 50 since I've owned mine.
<hamitron> I reset mine too often to know :/
 * dutchie needs to train his mother not to throw hard disks around while she is hoovering :(
<hamitron> I'd guess maybe 5 mins per year
<dwatkins> Azelphur: heh, it proves audio works and playback is an acceptable framerate
<Azelphur> dwatkins: indeed :)
<dwatkins> I was torn between the HTC Desire HD and Z, but decided that at flip-out keyboard is liable to break in my hands
<Ferb> 57 to 80 whats the difference
<screen-x> dutchie: don't leave them on the floor?
<Azelphur> right I'm done with the easy stuff, lets give it something challenging to do
 * Azelphur breaks out psx4droid
<hamitron> or do the hoovering yourself? ;)
<screen-x> hamitron: that was my next suggestion :)
<dutchie> screen-x: you'd think that would work, wouldn't you
<diplo> popey, did you order that HP deal ?
<popey> i did
<popey> 5 of them
<screen-x> haha popey just can't resist a deal
<diplo> One for yourself ?
<screen-x> what was it?
<diplo> Im guessing not 5 for home :D
<popey> :)
<popey> hp microserver
<diplo> Debating about creidt carding one, and wondering initial thoughts ?
<popey> http://www.it247.com/product/1/XXHSUK23/612275-421-HP-ProLiant-MicroServer-Dual-Core-1-3Ghz-AMD-Athlon-II.html
<Ferb> one for me as well
<diplo> It's exactly what I have been looking for
<popey> tis a nice bit of kit
<diplo> Quiet ?
<popey> http://www.techhead.co.uk/new-hp-proliant-microserver-a-decent-vsphere-lab-server-candidate
<popey> yes
<diplo> Debating leaving in my front room is all
<diplo> :)
<hamitron> erm
<screen-x> optional remote access card -- sounds interesting
<hamitron> Â£112?
<dutchie> ow, my eyes
<dutchie> natwest have sent me an html-only email containing no whitespace/newlines
<screen-x> and you are reading it in mutt?
<popey> hamitron: ya
<Ferb> I am
<popey> hamitron: not a bad deal for a little server with 1GB RAM and a 160GB disk
<dutchie> screen-x: yes
<dutchie> fortunately, the subject line contains sufficient information to make the body redundant
<screen-x> Useless hp page doesn't tell you what the remote access card is/does: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/uk/en/sm/WF06c/A1-329290-439740-241590-241590-4275610-4275612.html
<hamitron> grrrr, so tempted... even though I just replaced everything with a Netgear ReadyNAS
<hamitron> could be a seperate toy :)
<screen-x> hamitron: or buy me one instead
<popey> i am using it as a remote backup tool
<popey> it's backing up popey.com, ubuntu-uk.org and all of lug.org.uk :)
<hamitron> I'd probably run distcc on it
<hamitron> ;)
<screen-x> popey: are you planning to hide them in the cupboards of various family members?
<popey> heh
<hamitron> beats the pants off my K6-2
<popey> its a cracking little box
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/hpmicroserver/
<popey> for the geeks :)
<GreenDance> I am currently building a custom ubuntu, it's still ubuntu, just with some extra programs, i thought about releasing it, but wondered if it world be worth it, or should i just keep it to myself?
<popey> no
<popey> yes
<screen-x> GreenDance: you could put a metapackage in a ppa if you felt like it
<GreenDance> screen-x: what's one of them please?
<screen-x> GreenDance: my understanding is that it's a package that doesn't install anything, it just exists to depend on stuff.
<popey> e.g. ubuntu-desktop
<popey> !info ubuntu-desktop
<lubotu3> ubuntu-desktop (source: ubuntu-meta): The Ubuntu desktop system. In component main, is optional. Version 1.207 (maverick), package size 31 kB, installed size 60 kB
<popey> note the size
<popey> V V V small, it just pulls in loads of other packages
<screen-x> GreenDance: so you create a package that depends on everything you need, then on a new box you only have to install one package, which drags in everything else.
<GreenDance> :o
<GreenDance> wow
<GreenDance> thank you
<GreenDance> that sounds perfect
<popey> :)
<popey> \o/ win
 * selinuxium hadn't thought of doing that...
 * GreenDance runs to google to try find a tutorial on how to start :D
 * Ferb is readinf
<Ferb> reading
<GreenDance> screen-x / popey : can you recommend any tutorial(s)?
<popey> for what?
 * popey tickles bjwebb 
<bjwebb> hi
<GreenDance> popey: metapackage in a ppa
<popey> oh
<GreenDance> :)
<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MetaPackages
<AlanBell> bother, natty alpha 1 desktop doesn't work eithere
<popey> "doesn't work" :)
<hamitron> popey: does tat proliant support wake-on-lan?
<popey> yes
<hamitron> cool :)
<hamitron> you have just cost me some more money
<hamitron> ;/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Only 4% of People Think Patents Drive Innovation - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/only-4-people-think-patents-drive-innovation
<davmor2> hamitron: It also has impi support depending on the model iirc
<davmor2> hamitron: ipmi even
<Ferb> blimy this book is long
<AlanBell> popey: I had an old iso of alpha1 which hangs on an aufs error
<AlanBell> this was apparently fixed later
<Ferb> this book is funny, funny doodles
 * AlanBell sometimes reads books that have no pictures at all
<Ferb> like the doodle of Odie with underwhere on his head
<Ferb> thats funny
<GreenDance> popey: i guess creating a meta-package isn't as simple as a batch file?
<popey> its not hard
<popey> Ferb: please stop
<Ferb> I am only reading a book
<AlanBell> if I do a clean install of 10.10 then put in the 11.04 alternate CD I should be able to do an upgrade right?
<popey> Ferb: we know
<popey> yes
 * GreenDance hit the wall with google
 * Ferb hit his head on the wakl
<Ferb> wall
<davmor2> I hope everyone moshes to the 1979 Christmas number one
 * czajkowski stabs davmor2 
 * Ferb stopps the attack
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski a glass of christmas cheer
<czajkowski> been shopping all day
<czajkowski> evil shopping
<Ferb> good shopping if its in a tech store
<davmor2> czajkowski: I was shopping for about an hour, It's amazing to me how quickly you can get in and out when you look angry enough :)
<GreenDance> popey: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MetaPackages doesn't seem to be of much use as there isn't a step-by-step :(
 * Ferb stops reading and joins in
<daubers> NO MORE WORK TILL NEXT YEAR!!! (Except emergency stuff...)
 * Ferb feels ignored
<Ferb> daubers, that is good news
 * Ferb turns into Odie
<GreenDance> daubers: what is your line of work? :)
<daubers> GreenDance: Company builds storage servers, so if someones server has issues I may need to fix it
<GreenDance> daubers: hardware technican, cool, can I join your job :D.
<daubers> GreenDance: Hah! General oddjob man really. Hardware/software/support blah blah blah
<daubers> Thats my job
<Odie> good news guys, I sorta fixed my capacitors in my pc
<GreenDance> :)
<Odie> now it sometimes boots
<Odie> and other times it beeps vigorously at me
<Mez> popeycam is frozen, or in another timezone...
<Mez> http://popey.com/webcam/
<dutchie> Mez: maybe it hasn't changed sufficiently to trigger an update
<Mez> popey: is your snow actually melting ?
<GreenDance> what's the difference between a metapkg and a batch file?
<dutchie> but then i suppose it ought to have got dark
<Mez> dutchie: i'm fairly sure that it going dark should be enough change?
<Mez> GreenDance: I don't know, what's the difference between a metapkg and a batch file?
<hamitron> no HP ProLiant Microserver for me :(
<GreenDance> Mez: I don't know, that's why I was asking?
<Mez> GreenDance: oh, I thought it was the setup for a joke.,
<GreenDance> Mez: no, :p
<Odie> gruff gruff
<Odie> thats hello in dog
 * Odie is a dog to human, human to dog translator
<MartijnVdS> woof
<Mez> Odie - I can get that on my phone.
<Odie> woof woof
<Odie> Mea, really?
<Mez> http://www.google.co.uk/intl/en/landing/translateforanimals/
<Odie> mez
<Mez> Odie: see above link.
<GreenDance> popey:
<Odie> Mez, thats quite cool how do I get it?
<Odie> ?
<GreenDance> I'm going to give up on creating a meta package, a batch file is far easier
<brobostigon> evening all.
<_H> anyone know if lidl do soya milk?
<_H> don't bother
<_H> they do but its got milk/dairy in it
<_H> sorry aunty google knew
<_H> :o
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> soya milk, with dairy, doesntwork for us whohave dairy allergies.
<_H> http://www.babyandbump.com/general-chatter/57996-lidl-soya-milk-beware.html
<brobostigon> _H: thats awfull to see.
<_H> yup
<ali1234> the new adsense interface is blocked by adblock plus
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Mastercard Taking on Functions of Courts? - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/mastercard-taking-functions-courts
<MartijnVdS> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FakeScience/~3/Ua67FtxseW4/2433965227
<popey> evening all
<MartijnVdS> hi popey
<bigcalm> Morning
 * MartijnVdS hands bigcalm a proper time zone
<bigcalm> I've made a mob factory and grinder. Damn slow though
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: sounds very Godfather/Scarface/etc.
<popey> bigcalm:  a mob factory?
<bigcalm> popey: Several layers in total darkness. Canals to ferry them toward a lava grinder
<popey> haha
<MartijnVdS> ah minecrack :)
<popey> screenshot and or screencast STAT!
<bigcalm> There are plenty of youtube videos, but I'll see what I can do
<popey> link me up
<popey> (as they say)
<bigcalm> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQPdWBshRXg is an example
<popey> wow
<bigcalm> Yeah
<bigcalm> Mine is not that quick
<bigcalm> But I have lots of TNT now ;)
<popey> i so need to do that
<bigcalm> What's a good screen cast prog for windows so I can tape this?
<popey> camtasia?
 * popey gets wifey to get him a mouse so he can craft as he watches telly
<bigcalm> That does look feature rick
<bigcalm> That's what wifies are for
<popey> YaManicKill: you might want to stop that
<YaManicKill> ooops...sorry, forgot it happens in here as well :-P
<YaManicKill> we were having too much fun over in #linuxoutlaws
<YaManicKill> i apologise...
<Azelphur> YaManicKill: reminds me of the time me and a bunch of people on gamesurge decided to change our names to common words like "and" "it" "or" and then shout at people for highlighting us :p
<YaManicKill> haha, yeah :-P funny
<bigcalm> Can you upload a .camrec file to youtube?
<Azelphur> MattJ: XMPP \o/, Is it possible for me to use spectrum with Google talk XMPP somehow?
<MattJ> XMPP \o/
<Azelphur> the android XMPP clients I've seen so far arn't exactly on par with the built in one
<MattJ> Indeed they aren't yet
<MattJ> Registering with the transport in a normal client and then using it in the Android client /might/ work, but speak to the Spectrum folks
<MattJ> Google had a bug in their server and a bug in the Android client that made things unhappy
<MattJ> and they weren't inclined to fix them last I knew, because it's not a use case they officially support :)
<Azelphur> haha
<SuperMatt> LOTS OF HILIGHTS FROM MATTJ
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Was 2010 Really a Big Year for Linux? - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/was-2010-really-big-year-linux
<paln> Hello people!!!!!!!!!!
<brobostigon> shwmae paln
<_H> Frohe Weihnachten to all :)
<brobostigon> schone weihnachten _H :)
<_H> Dankja
<brobostigon> Danke*
<_H> oh... ok
<_H> sorry
<andylockran> ho ho ho (wdy, wdy, wdy)
<andylockran> that's my special christmas greetung
<brobostigon> _H: no worries, i lived ten years in germany, while i was teenage years, when mydad was working there,
<paln> lol
<paln> oh, sum guy on Facebook, said that xmas is "feliz navi-dead" to him, if you get me
<_H> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1088872/Man-celebrates-Christmas-day-scaling-celebrations-credit-crunch.html
<bigcalm> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Igdh9EZOo # quality is a bit crappy though
<jacobw> _H: sad man :(
<_H> I make no judgements, but understand xmas may have been the only true happy time in his young life....
<jacobw> i think he'd save money with a nut roast instead of turkey everyday
<popey> jacobw: / _H the guy is clearly lying
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Park_(Mr._Christmas) confirms it
 * _H feels happy/warm as it's -9 not -16
<jacobw> its a catch 22, if he does celebrate xmas everyday, he's nutcase, if doesn't and wants people to think he does.. he's still a nutcase
<hamitron> steve balmer just pressed the red button and my windows install broke :/
<hamitron> merry xmas me
<hamitron> is there any reason 10.04 seems slower than 8.04?
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> new version boots faster ofc
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-24
<hamitron> hmm
<jacobw> hmmm?
<hamitron> my windows XP is wrecked, so trying the new ubuntu
<hamitron> and bugging everyone in this chan was one of my priority apps to setup ;)
<hamitron> but in all serious, just sick of things breaking
<hamitron> don't like empathy ;)
 * jpds tries to feel for hamitron, but is reminded to the fact that he hates empathy.
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> if only I could hide the speech bubbles...
<hamitron> but I suppose I should select my OS to install, before minor stuff like that
<daftykins> i thought that was a theme thing you can disable
<daftykins> by changing it to classic
<daftykins> also, hi
<hamitron> hi dafty :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<hamitron> I maybe need to reopen my chat window?
<daftykins> mayhaps
<hamitron> I am really tempted to give ubuntu a go on my gaming pc again
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> it is between XP, 7 and ubuntu
<hamitron> I am now wishing I didn't have 2 x 300Gb hd in RAID 0 :/
<hamitron> with data on, like a big foolish user of windows
<hamitron> 503Gb of junk, and 21Gb of hdd free to move it to :)
<hamitron> if you have a PCI raid controller with 2 hdd on it, and move it to another comp... can it read the data previously stored?
<exobuzz> ubuntu has a habit of switching from popular well liked apps to new ones, that although look good on papr, are often half finished, lacking features and buggy
<exobuzz> still prefer pidgin over empathy for example. first thing i do with ubuntu is ditch a bunch of default stuff
<daftykins> mmm-hmm
<exobuzz> and the other thing. ubuntu "ties" itself in closely with their choice of apps. like the volume widget and rhythmbox. or the calendar and evolution
<daftykins> it's kind of amusing because in the past, all the default stuff made me think "ah great, so much less to do"
<exobuzz> yeh
<daftykins> but of course now, you have to pull it all off before you upgrade, so you don't grab updates for things you don't want :D
<daftykins> though in its' favour once again, there's APT, so no hassle there either :D
<jacobw> apt/dpkg is light years ahead of the software management facilities on Windows and OS X
<jacobw> OS X less so than Windows
<exobuzz> yeh.. i recently had the pleasure of doing some work on centos.. i dont uderstand why its popular for server stuff, since the basic lamp packages are a mess
<exobuzz> no split configs/.d dirs. just a big old mess
<hamitron> what you get used to I suppose
<hamitron> must admit I always resist change
<hamitron> ;/
<exobuzz> i dont mind change, but it seemed a downgrade.
<daftykins> i had to use CentOS at Uni
<daftykins> i get frustrated by any distro change really, different default configs etc :D
<daftykins> i love the way the ubuntu ones at least sort of document some in their alternate locations now
<hamitron> nothing wrong with a change of distro... stops you getting into the habit of 1 set of ways
<daftykins> e.g. go to /config/file/here.conf and it'll say "Sorry daftykins, but your daemon's configured in another castle"
<hamitron> hehe
<daftykins> and i'll be able to save time \o/
<hamitron> my favourite distro is still ubuntu 8.04 :/
<exobuzz> lots of companies probably choose centos as the second sentence they have says "enterprise class"
<hamitron> I don't even know what a load of this stuff is in 10.04
<hamitron> centos is similar to redhat?
<exobuzz> yeh
<jacobw> centos is redhat minus branding
<hamitron> suppose that is good if you use closed source apps
<directhex> red hat is only useful because you are paying for a phone number to shout at when it breaks
<directhex> otherwise, it's crap
<exobuzz> i dont use ubuntu on my servers. i switch my home fileserver to ubuntu, but sort of regretted that in a way. glad i left my others on debian
<directhex> and centos is red hat minus the phone number
<exobuzz> directhex, lol :)
<hamitron> redhat has a cooler name
<hamitron> ;/
<directhex> the only reason to use centos is so you can lie to your app vendor when they ask if you're running red hat
<hamitron> :D
<daftykins> XD
<directhex> 'cos they work it out when you're running debian
<directhex> trust me
<daftykins> work out the problem?
<daftykins> oh i get you
<hamitron> sooooo
<hamitron> can I move a RAID controller to another comp?
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> and keep the data on a RAID 0 setup
<exobuzz> if it fits
<directhex> the controller, or the disks?
<hamitron> controller and 2 disks setup with RAID 0
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> yes.
<daftykins> yarr
<daftykins> is the OS on it?
<directhex> avast!
<hamitron> yes dafty
<hamitron> only it only boots in safe mode
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> my intention is to not boot the OS off the RAID
<hamitron> I got a feeling this is gonna bite me
<daftykins> wait wait wait
<daftykins> what are you wanting to achieve? :D
<hamitron> not sure
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I got a 2 x 300Gb RAID 0 gaming machine with data stored on
<hamitron> and the copy of windows has died... can only boot in safe mode with networking
<hamitron> I have a spare 500Gb hdd I would like my clean OS on
<hamitron> suppose I could install that and the OS, then maybe move most of the data over
<hamitron> I was not planning on windows breaking :/
<daftykins> or boot a liveCD and rescue it to another disk?
<hamitron> my 8.04 live cd won't read it
<hamitron> I thought it was maybe because you need to use alternative cd to use RAID?
<hamitron> could try slackware install cd maybe
<daftykins> you do 0o but it's hardware RAID no?
<hamitron> I dunno
<hamitron> ;/
<daftykins> i'd have expected a new enough distro on a new enough kernel would happily see the NTFS volume
<hamitron> it is some SATA 1 ALi RAID controller
<daftykins> D:
<hamitron> cheap
<hamitron> I'd guess software I suppose
<daftykins> no doubt
<daftykins> but it should be abstracted still
<daftykins> even if it were a couple of silicon image chips slapped onto a PCI bus adapter
<hamitron> half tempted to just leave XP running in safe mode
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> I got synergy running
<hamitron> brb, coffee
<hamitron> bk
<memphis_> exit
<hamitron> dug out the good old low spec machine :)
<hamitron> well, it has a 3D processor.... so not too low ;/
<ball> I booted Ubuntu at work today, from a liveDVD
<ball> people seemed quite taken with it.
<hamitron> go well?
<hamitron> cool :)
<knightwise> Merry Christmas everyone !
<diplo> Morning all
<czajkowski> Aloha
<SuperMatt> HI
<screen-x> Morning All :)
<danfish> ho ho ho
<danfish> it's xmas eve and I've yet to hear any Slade
 * MartijnVdS always wondered why Santa calls people "ho"
<stuphi> danfish: http://open.spotify.com/track/5b9yUVqrXQxVUn3okCEZav
<danfish> he listens to gangsta rap whilst doing his rounds I've heard
<screen-x> morning danfish :)
<screen-x> I haven't heard any slade yet either :)
 * screen-x listens to similar artists: propellerheads
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: Lemongrass!
<danfish> stuphi: thankyou, slade shortage rectified :)
<danfish> also finally signed up for spotify
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: you have mentioned that a few times, maybe it is time to try it..
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: also Alphawezen
<screen-x> danfish: paying?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: also other artists on that label (Mole Listening Pearls)
<danfish> screen-x: whoa there - one step at a time :)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: ok :)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: (http://www.mole.de/eng/newspage.php)
<screen-x> Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) mod_fastcgi/2.4.6 mod_jk/1.2.25 PHP/5.2.4-2ubuntu5.12 with Suhosin-Patch mod_ssl/2.2.8 OpenSSL/0.9.8g Server at mole.de Port 80
<screen-x> ubuntu \o/
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<danfish> a Matt Asay piece in el reg
<danfish> 09:00 < screen-x> MartijnVdS: ok :)
<danfish> we'll try that again
<danfish> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/24/2011_and_open_source/
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: (auto play music in web pages)--
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: agreed.. I didn't make that site :)
<screen-x> hmmm
<screen-x> I thought the vpn was choppy this morning, mtr reports 80% packet loss between here and work..
<screen-x> only 20% of that is lost on the wifi hop.
<MartijnVdS> nice
<MartijnVdS> broken switch/router?
<MartijnVdS> snowed-in cables?
<screen-x> seems to be a bt router thats the culprit
<MartijnVdS> \o/ bt
<MartijnVdS> *cough*
<screen-x> t2c1-ge11-0-0.uk-eal.eu.bt.net to be precise
<Phineas> i have returned
 * MartijnVdS runs
<Phineas> why do people do that
 * danfish joins MartijnVdS ;)
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: do you have a list of options to choose from? :)
<Phineas> sorta
<MartijnVdS> 1)
<Phineas> what would i like to do with menu.list? (during update)
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: depends.. did you edit it manually?
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  no
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: and it's asking you the diff/new/old question?
<Phineas> nope its asking me in a window named debconf on *computer name*
<MartijnVdS> wow..
<MartijnVdS> what are the options?
<Phineas> keep current version, install package mantiners versoin, start new shell to examen situation, and a load of merge and compareing options
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: try the "diff" option
<MartijnVdS> it should show which lines it would remove (-) and add (+) if you were to choose "package maintainer's version"
<Phineas> side by side , 3 way or 3 way merge (experimental)?
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: just normal diff?
<Phineas> ok i have what you discribed abouve
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: anything important it's (-)removing?
<Phineas> -kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-22-generic root=UUID=507545ea-e165-4532-b828-d3a0ffe2ac0f ro quiet vga=791 splash
<Phineas> and
<Phineas> -kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.28-19-generic root=UUID=507545ea-e165-4532-b828-d3a0ffe2ac0f ro quiet vga=791 splash
<Phineas> thats the only (-) removes
<MartijnVdS> old kernels
<MartijnVdS> choose "package maintainer version", and check if there are still "kernel" lines left when the upgrade finishes
<Phineas> so time to press next
<MartijnVdS> it'll always leave the old version lying around
<Phineas> update compleate
 * Phineas will reboot later
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: ok.. now check the menu.lst -- see if there are still bootable kernels in there :)
<Phineas> there are kernals there
<Phineas> how do i know if they are bootable
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: check if they exist :)
<MartijnVdS> that should be enough
<MartijnVdS> unless you've had boot problems in the past
<Phineas> there are a few kernals in menu.llt
<Phineas> not on this install i haven't had boot issues (ones where it wond boot that is)
<Phineas> i should be fine
<Phineas> i gotta go bye
<davmor2> ho ho ho merry morning
<danfish> davmor2: morning - what ya get czajkowski for xmas or is it a suprise?
<screen-x> morning davmor2
<davmor2> danfish: A day off
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
<danfish> hah
<AlanBell> davmor2: weekly quota exceeded
<AlanBell> happy not-quite-christmas everyone
<davmor2> AlanBell: That was czajkowski new years  resolution for me no mine :D
<screen-x> Happy Christmas-1 AlanBell
<AlanBell> oh, new year, that isn't for another week or so, carry on . . .
<screen-x> how is mtr different from ping? I can get 0% packet loss when pinging a host, but ~60% using mtr.
<screen-x> I thought they both used icmp, so should have similar results
<screen-x> or is that too ontopic for christmas eve ;-)
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski again cause AlanBell told me too :D
<AlanBell> screen-x: try comparing it to tracepath
<MartijnVdS> mtr \o/
 * AlanBell decides to make a caganer in the image of davmor2
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: wasn't your caganer idea vetoed?
<AlanBell> it was, maybe I will give it to czajkowski
<MartijnVdS> Some Friday afternoon fun - http://www.unnecessaryquotes.com/
<screen-x> AlanBell: tracepath ends with "Too many hops: pmtu 1458"
<MartijnVdS> woo routing loops?
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: not sure :(
<screen-x> would you be able to pastebin mtr --report --report-cycles=20 mc-gw.smtl.co.uk for me?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: sure
<screen-x> thanks :)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: http://pastebin.com/m0tyYaYj
<MartijnVdS> and from my other machine..
<AlanBell> similar here from a few directions
<MartijnVdS> http://pastebin.com/ZdgmRAxX
<AlanBell> I think the hop after "???" and "???" should actually be "Profit!!!"
<MartijnVdS> haha
<screen-x> heh
<screen-x> hmm is it safe to conclude the problem is with my ISP? it seems to be that there is a lot of packet loss on the last three hops, wherever the trace is from.
<AlanBell> so is that your host?
<AlanBell> mc-gw
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: do you host with "griffin.com"?
<screen-x> mc-gw is the internet gateway at work
<AlanBell> your ISP or internal network firewall/DMZ would appear to be the area with the issue
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: nope, but I think our ISP is related to griffin in some way.
<screen-x> AlanBell: mc-gw is the router owned by the ISP, our firewall is inside that, so I think it probably is their problem.
<MartijnVdS> sounds like it
<screen-x> owned by the isp, by on our site (CPE?)
<MartijnVdS> CPE = customer premises equipment
<MartijnVdS> can be your modem, router, etc.
<MartijnVdS> can be yours or theirs really
<screen-x> Its a bonder for 3 ADSL connections, I wonder if 1 of the ADSL lines is flaking and it isnt failing over properly..
<MartijnVdS> 80% packet loss -- maybe 2 are flaking
<screen-x> yeah :(
<AlanBell> screen-x: that would sound very plausible
<AlanBell> http://xkcd.com/838/
<screen-x> haha
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "nice -n19"
<screen-x> raised ISP support ticket, told them not to spoil someones Christmas eve - its not despearte!
<brobostigon> morning all.
<_H> anyone know where to find cherap dried goods in edinburgh? want to stock up
<_H> cheap*
<_H> ** im veggie
 * AlanBell is tracking santa
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: how?
<AlanBell> http://www.noradsanta.org
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: try "santa" on your Google mobile maps
<screen-x> right /me is finnished for Christmas now, have fun all :)
<diplo> Good Xmas all, off home \o/4
<_H> The Google Maps API server rejected your request because you do not have permission to use this service over SSL.
<_H> o.0
<AlanBell> indeed not, you have to pay extra for that, which is why the maps are no longer on launchpad
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Martin Meredith] 20 Easy steps to cook your Christmas Turkey - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/SourceGuru/~3/X9fIZ-hH_k0/
<daubers> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> mooo
<daubers>  _______
<daubers> < Moooo >
<daubers>  -------
<daubers>         \   ^__^
<daubers>          \  (oo)\_______
<daubers>             (__)\       )\/\
<daubers>                 ||----w |
<daubers>                 ||     ||
<daubers> I've run out of wrapping paper :(
<MartijnVdS> daubers: use toilet paper ;)
<MartijnVdS> or aluminium foil
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Heh! Tempted to use newspaper
<MartijnVdS> aluminium foil looks nice and shiny too :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Not as versatile as wrapping paper though
<MartijnVdS> sure, but necessity, mother, invention etc.
<daubers> heh :)
<jussi> daubers: just find a random large box, fill it with soft fill (or dont) and put the small present in there, and put a ribbon around it
<jussi> mkes the present look bigger as well :P
<daubers> heh, got a better plan. Wrap the parents presetns at the inlaws house
<MartijnVdS> daubers: cheating
<brobostigon> daubers: how do you do ascii art like thathere in irssi ?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: win \o/
<daubers> brobostigon: /exec -o cowsay moo
<brobostigon> /bin/sh: cowsay: not found
<MartijnVdS> apt-get install :)
<daubers> requires you to have cowsay install though :)
<daubers> brobostigon: exec just runs a terminal command and puts the result into irsi
<brobostigon> daubers: an irssiscript ?
<daubers> if you use -o anyway
<daubers> !info cowsay
<lubotu3> cowsay (source: cowsay): A configurable talking cow. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.03+dfsg1-2 (maverick), package size 19 kB, installed size 264 kB
<daubers> or !info figlet
<brobostigon> let me try, thank you daubers
<daubers> !info figlet
<lubotu3> figlet (source: figlet): Frank, Ian & Glenn's Letters. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 2.2.2-1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 147 kB, installed size 892 kB
<Laney> !info toilet
<lubotu3> toilet (source: toilet): display large colourful characters in text mode. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2-1 (maverick), package size 21 kB, installed size 96 kB
<brobostigon>  _____
<brobostigon> < moo >
<brobostigon>  -----
<brobostigon>         \   ^__^
<brobostigon>          \  (oo)\_______
<brobostigon>             (__)\       )\/\
<brobostigon>                 ||----w |
<brobostigon>                 ||     ||
<brobostigon> cool. :)
 * brobostigon likes.
<MartijnVdS> Do you know how could I install on a SGRAM 2D hardware?
<MartijnVdS> From Excel 6000 you can't mount a editor for inserting in the program over a e-mail address of a cable.
<MartijnVdS> (polygen /usr/share/polygen/eng/genius.grm)
<MartijnVdS> !info polygen
<lubotu3> polygen (source: polygen): generator of random sentences from grammar definitions. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.6.ds2-10 (maverick), package size 88 kB, installed size 512 kB
<MartijnVdS> How to receive the icon?
<MartijnVdS> You either cannot delete a proxy, or can never turn off a terminale of the prompt on the serial GUI over a 3D mouse on the directory over the POPmail folder to cancel a 63X mail.
 * daubers should start cleaning the kitchen really
<daubers> Need to boil the gammon too
<MartijnVdS> daubers: play with polygen a bit :)
<brobostigon>  _____
<brobostigon> < boo >
<brobostigon>  -----
<brobostigon>         \   ^__^
<brobostigon>          \  (oo)\_______
<brobostigon>             (__)\       )\/\
<brobostigon>                 ||----w |
<brobostigon>                 ||     ||
<brobostigon> ah,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: polygen > cowsay :)
<MartijnVdS> Template Object
<MartijnVdS> Composite Object
<MartijnVdS> Template Adapter
<jacobw> merry christmas eve
 * brobostigon installs polygen
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00wvd9x/
<brobostigon> error: cannot parse from file "moo: No such file or directory"
<brobostigon> Polygen (type 2) v1.0.6 built 20040628 - http://www.polygen.org
<brobostigon> Manta/Spinning Kids alias Alvise Spano' anno MMII ac insequenti fecit.
<brobostigon> usage: polygen [OPTION]... SOURCES...
<brobostigon>  SOURCE     source file(s) providing grammar definition
<brobostigon>  OPTION
<brobostigon>   -eof STR  use string STR as end-of-file (default: STR = "\n")
<brobostigon>   -help     display this help message
<brobostigon>   -info     alias for '-S I'
<brobostigon>   -l LABEL  add LABEL to initial active label environment
<brobostigon>   -o DEST   output to DEST file
<brobostigon>   -pedantic set warning level to maximum
<brobostigon>   -pre      output preprocessed source grammar
<brobostigon>   -seed N   pass unsigned integer N as random seed
<brobostigon>   -S SYM    use SYM as starting non-terminal symbol (default: SYM = S)
<brobostigon>   -t        check source grammar and output inferred global label groups
<brobostigon>   -v        be verbose
<brobostigon>   -X N      iterate generation for N times (default: N = 1)
<brobostigon>   -W N      set warning pedantry at level N (default: N = 1)
<brobostigon>   --help  Display this list of options
<daubers> brobostigon: May not be a good idea to use /exec without checking what it outputs first.....
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: please run it without -o first (or in a separate terminal) :))
<brobostigon> daubers: good point, yes.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you can use files from /usr/share/polygen/*/*.grm as arguments to generate things
<MartijnVdS> We need to manage software systems in order to manage the development of Net-surfing providers.
<MartijnVdS> We would globalize multimedia strategies.
<MartijnVdS> etc. (eng/manager.grm)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, let me try, thank you.
<MartijnVdS> omg
<MartijnVdS> $ polygen boyband.grm
<MartijnVdS> Pull Eleven
<czajkowski> Peeka Boo
 * czajkowski wallops davmor2 Behave you
<davmor2> czajkowski: No :P  and prod for good measure
<daubers> czajkowski: o/
<czajkowski> davmor2: brat
<czajkowski> daubers: ello
<davmor2> czajkowski: Here have a Christmas Hug, and I hope you have a lovely Christmas :)
<penguin42> hurrah, convinced the amazon mp3 downloader to run, only about 10 i386 packages needed
<davmor2> penguin42: there is a package that grabs all the packages for you iirc
<penguin42> davmor2: You thinking of ia32-libs ?
<davmor2> penguin42: no it's something like getlibs.deb iirc
<penguin42> hmm not come across that one
<Ferb> hi and merry xmas
 * Ferb detects this channel is dead
<brobostigon> merry xmas Ferb
<penguin42> not quite
<Ferb> more like merry bloody hot xmas here
<Ferb> I am boiling whilst you guys turn into blocks of ice
<penguin42> well just ship us 10c and we'll be happy
<Ferb> well its about 30 here if not more
 * Ferb heres his noisy fans all the time
<Ferb> cos its so hot
<brobostigon> hears*
<Ferb> well good luck living in a freezer. its like a sauna out there
<brobostigon> the cold dont bother me inthe slightest, a good  pair of boots, and i am happy.
<brobostigon> the hot does bother me though.
<Ferb> it does if you wanna go outside here, you'd be back in in 30 seconds because of the hot
<brobostigon> exctly, hene why i hate the hot.
<Ferb> I know the swimming pool is like a hot tub, the ground is like a grill (some days I here hissing when I walk on it). thats an example of life out here
 * brobostigon 's perfect living place,would be somewhere cold, he really hates the hot, alot.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: north pole?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: maybe, too cold.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: scotland?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: maybe northern danmark, sweden, switzerland, cold.
<Ferb> man the glass on the windows is hot today
<MartijnVdS> Ferb: you live in a nuclear reactor? :)
<Ferb> nope its just very hot outside
<MartijnVdS> Ferb: lies!
<Ferb> emphasis on the word very
<Ferb> no lies it is hot here,  I tried the swimming pool and it was like a hot tub
 * Ferb turns his noisy fan up to full
<Ferb> man thats loud
<Ferb> I have to wait until about 10am before I can get the groseries due to intense heat outside
<Ferb> thats how hot it is here
<MartijnVdS> Ferb: your eggs are hard-boiled between your car and front door?
<MartijnVdS> Ferb: stuff like that?
<Ferb> not quite, milk will go off too quick and the cheese will start to mwlt
<Ferb> mwlt
<Ferb> melt
<Ferb> stuff like that
<Ferb> always were shooes or esle its hot on foot
<Ferb> stuff like that martiJNs
<MartijnVdS> haha
<Ferb> oh come on that was predictive text doing an epic fail
 * Ferb is in just his underwere most of the time
<Ferb> cos its hot
<MartijnVdS> uhhuh "because it's hot", sure
<Ferb> because its hot outside that is
<popey> Ferb: could you please attempt to go for a single day without talking bollocks?
<Ferb> this is all true popey
<MartijnVdS> Ferb: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19980603
<Ferb> take too long to load on my phone
<Ferb> sorry
<Ferb> popey, if you want to talk about something just say :)
<popey> sure, how about Ubuntu?
<Ferb> popey, sure you start the convo
<Ferb> I've noticed that how ever much I put on my laptop it never slows down
<Ferb> popey, ^^^^^
<Ferb> how come windows slows down the more you put on it and ubuntu doesnt
<Ferb> popey, do you know why?
<Ferb> or anyone for that matter
<popey> http://www.google.com/search?&q=why+does+windows+slow+down+over+time
<Ferb> anyone know
<Laney> wtf
<popey> hello Laney
<Laney> hiya
<Laney> alright? feeling merry?
<Ferb> why doesnt ubuntu slow down over time?
<popey> I can has beer
 * brobostigon also has beer.
<Laney> I am on a bus which has wifi. This is new and exciting to me
<popey> heh :)
<popey> I am just getting the kids ready to put down a mince pie and carrot for santa and his reindeer
 * Ferb has a shandy even tho hes under agw
<Ferb> age
<popey> they are about set to explode with excitement
<Laney> any whisky?
<Ferb> popey, I am just as excited as your children
<davmor2> Ferb: Ubuntu/linux has a major differences, one if the filesystem on the hd, the schema setup etc etc etc
<Laney> I will be excited after the wrapping is finished tonight
<popey> http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2010/12/24/white-trash-repairs-and-a-cartridge-in-a-bare-tree
 * brobostigon is going for a boozeup tonight with friends,
<Ferb> happy Christmas everyone
 * popey hugs spotify for christmas music
<Laney> why is it +t here? I wanted to put a ho ho ho in the topic :(
<popey> people used to dick about with the topic
<brobostigon> hmm, :(
<Laney> fair, I guess I was indeed about to myself
<popey> :)
<Laney> â¥ popey <3
<popey> as I have done
<Laney> damn, miscomposed
<popey> oh, someone removed my bit in the topic
 * popey glares at AlanBell 
 * Ferb glares at popey
<Laney> helloooo huntingdon bus station
<Laney> adieu!
<popey> o/
 * brobostigon gets the good beer guide out, and finds banbury.
 * Ferb likes his Speckled Hen
<Ferb> but its making me sleepy tho
<brobostigon> Ferb: you did say you were underage,yes ?
<MartijnVdS> !illegal
<lubotu3> piracy discussion and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o
<Ferb> yes I am underage
<popey> Ferb: are you at home?
<popey> Ferb: how old are you?
<Ferb> popey, yes I am at home
<Ferb> popey, old enough to use irc
<popey> there is no such thing as underage at home
<popey> its up to parents to decide
<brobostigon> good point popey
<popey> unless you're about 3
<popey> which seems unlikely
 * brobostigon nods
 * DJones looks at scrollback and wonders whether 3 could be at the top end of estimates :)
<Ferb> alcohol at home shouldn't be given to anyone under the age of 5
 * brobostigon promptly gets his long pointy  stick out, andaims in DJones's direction.,
<popey> hullo bigcalm[mob]
<popey> happy doo-dah
<bigcalm[mob]> Afternoon peeps
<Ferb> afternoon bigcalm
<bigcalm[mob]> Hey popey
<bigcalm[mob]> popey: built a grinder?
<bigcalm[mob]> Hi
<Ferb> hi
<DJones> brobostigon: Evening
<brobostigon> DJones: good evening,
<bigcalm[mob]> I'm hiding in McDonald's with a free coffee before visiting more relatives
<Ferb> happy Christmas all
<Ferb> 2 hours till I go to bed
<Ferb> make that 3
<bigcalm[mob]> Waiting for Farther Christmas?
<brobostigon> father*
<Ferb> I sure am
<bigcalm[mob]> That's mobile IRC foe you
 * Ferb IS on mobile irc
<bigcalm[mob]> Coffee finished. Back to the relatives I go
<Ferb> I just cant wait for all the prezzies
<bigcalm[mob]> Merry Crimble
<brobostigon> bye bigcalm[mob]
<Ferb> sewya bigcalm
<Ferb> that was fun guys, bye merry xmas to all
<brobostigon> xmas bean, lol. itv3
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff
 * brobostigon pukes
<bigcalm[mob]> Lovely
<brobostigon> bigcalm[mob]: that was to show how much i dislike david hasselhoff
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: and you're sort-of German ;)
<gord> instead of using sed to rename a bunch of files, i just installed krename. i think i haev to give back my geek licence :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i just lived there while my dad was working there, i am half english, nd half welsh.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you know what I mean
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that i understand german, yes.
<MartijnVdS> but maybe not the germans ;)
<bigcalm[mob]> It's bad of me to want to be able to play minecraft on my phone. I can't imagine how the controls would work though
<brobostigon> good point,
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm[mob]: addiction
<bigcalm[mob]> Totally
<suprengr> ...my planet wishes all your planet a peaceful Christmas.. and thanks you all for the help
<exobuzz> that's not a planet.. that's a ... space station
<davmor2> night all have a great Christmas and a Happy new year
<MartijnVdS> http://is.gd/jo3gX
 * brobostigon thinks, and then lol's
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: only in the uk ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: infront of a pub aswell.
<brobostigon> sorry, i am wrong.
<MartijnVdS> not a pub?
<_H> 3 Years and 340 Days 16hours 8 mins since I last saw my mother. #imaloneforchristmas
<brobostigon> a shop it is, onthe right of the picture.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if it looks like a pub... (pub typing ;))
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good point, :)
<brobostigon> ircing from the pub, hmm, i have done it, but not while in company.
<_H>  4 Years and 70 Days since I saw/spoke to dad....
<MartijnVdS> _H: sounds like an unhappy family
<_H> I came out to dad  4 Years and 70 Days ago
<dwatkins> That's not nice that you can't go see them :-/
<dwatkins> bbl
<MartijnVdS> I guess people will be here all weekend
<MartijnVdS> maybe not as many/much as other weekends
<MartijnVdS> _H: so you won't be _all_ alone for christmas :)
<AlanBell> _H: go help serve curry or something http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-12067330
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: poor homeless! "the hottest curry in Scotland"
<AlanBell> just a nice warming turkey jalfrezi or something
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: pheasant vindaloo
<AlanBell> would barely tickle nigelb's tastebuds
<_H> http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/dec/24/freezing-weather-homeless-charities
<AlanBell> approaching eastern europe now http://www.noradsanta.org/en/index.html
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.fnal.gov/pub/ferminews/santa/
<jbblack> Hello Linux people... i just installed Ubuntu... it's pretty cool
<MartijnVdS> another fan \o/]
<danfish> I'm not sure what I'm more excited about - Santy Claus visiting tonight or the Dr Who Special \o/
<MartijnVdS> danfish: isn't the dr tomorrow
<MartijnVdS> danfish: also, top gear on boxing day
<jbblack> english people? i thought i was the only brit online
<_H> Reindeer feed on grass and lichens, but also have a taste for the fly agaric toadstool, Amanita muscaria, because of its intoxicating and euphoric effects.
<MartijnVdS> _H: reindeer are stoned? like koalas :)
<danfish> MartijnVdS: yep  - dr who at 6pm UK time :(
<danfish> but due to temporal distortions, that time may vary :P
<_H> The  Sami have a custom of feeding fly agaric to their deer and collecting  the urine to drink. The reindeer's digestive system metabolises the more  poisonous components of the toadstool, leaving urine with the  hallucinogenic and psychotropic elements of the fungus intact. Drinking  the urine gives a 'high' similar to taking LSD.  Under the hallucinatory effects of the drink, the Sami thought their  reindeer were flying through
<_H> The  reindeers' liking for the toadstool hallucinogens are such that they, in  turn, have been known to eat the snow on which intoxicated humans have  urinated, creating a reciprocating cycle.When the first  missionaries reached Lapland they heard stories of such reindeer flight,  and integrated those tales into the existing Christmas folklore of  Western cultures concerning Saint Nicholas.
<MartijnVdS> _H: you're full of interesting facts this evening ;)
 * _H shuts up
<_H> just wanted to say that's why roudolf has a red nose and the raineer fly
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:   http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday December 30th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Happy Winterval \o/
<AlanBell> jbblack: plenty of brits here, this is the UK channel
<Nafallo> UK = Ukraine
<Nafallo> :-P
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: ...
<AlanBell> Nafallo: #ubuntu-gb redirects here for the benefit of pedants
<suprengr> whats a United Kraine?
<Nafallo> AlanBell: I know. GeoIP thinks UK is Ukraine IIRC :-)
<MartijnVdS> good thing .nl is .nl
<MartijnVdS> not .hol or something weird :)
<Nafallo> aye :-)
<Nafallo> there is some hilarity with sv and se as well I believe.
<MartijnVdS> and sk
<Nafallo> .se = Sweden, SE = Saami, SV = Swedish
<MartijnVdS> sk = Slovakia
<Nafallo> yeah, not even in the equation here.
<Nafallo> Saami is actually spoken in parts of Sweden, which might make it even more confusing.
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: svenska?
<Nafallo> that's Swedish.
<Nafallo> Saami in Swedish is samiska
<jacobw> lol
<jacobw> @ for the benefit of pedants
<AlanBell> actually it is for the benefit of xchat, which joins by default to freenode and #ubuntu-$countrycode
<jacobw> AlanBell: can you link to your flickr page? i've lost the link and i remember there were some good photos there :)
<jacobw> i assume it was your flickr page anyway
<MartijnVdS> flickr.com/photos/treenaks is mine if you want it :)
<AlanBell> I think I have one photo on flickr
<jacobw> cheers :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: maybe it's a good one ;)
<_H> I just ordered a sack of spuds [18kg] as they last longer and are cheaper [for example asdaÂ smart priceÂ spudsÂ Â£0.97Â (38.8p/kg) but you do them for 10p a kg] nearly 3 times as cheap
<jacobw> whose was the flickr account that the pictures of the UK for beta.ubuntu-uk.org came from then?
<_H> *you=an organics comp
<AlanBell> ahh, right that was some stuff I tagged
<jacobw> i've set the picture of the turntable as my desktop background MartijnVdS :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: nice, thanks :)
<jacobw> i'm looking for new backgrounds, i'm getting bored of the default Maverick ones
<MartijnVdS> I like the brown feather(?)
<jacobw> there should be a community site for background slideshows
<jacobw> backgrounds.ubuntu-uk.org
 * jacobw starts it
<MartijnVdS> art.gnome.org ?
<MartijnVdS> http://art.gnome.org/backgrounds
<jacobw> i don't think there's anything more there than when i last looked a few years ago
<suprengr> http:... get outside your front door and take photos [.com]!
<MartijnVdS> outside = cold
<suprengr> honest ... you are always your best artist
<jacobw> yeah i know i should do
<jacobw> need to find a photogenic part of Leeds :p
<jacobw> actually, if i attached a camera taking an image every minute while i drove to Hull, i'd get loads of shots of the East Yorkshire countryside
<suprengr> jacobw: that's called "head south" ;D
 * jacobw asserts than the Yorkshire countryside is the best in England
 * suprengr may well agree... wspecially with a camera [hint hint]
<suprengr> *especially
<_H> *25 kelos
<jacobw> hehe
<Flashtek> o/
<Flashtek> I need a Jabber client for Ubuntu.. recommendations ?
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<MattJ> I use Gajim, a lot of people use Pidgin, and Empathy is installed by default
<zleap> hi fabien
<zleap> Flashtek,
<Flashtek> zleap:
<Flashtek> o/
<zleap> hows you
<Flashtek> ok mate..
<zleap> good
<zleap> just looking at this article i am meant to write
<Flashtek> oh, cool
<Flashtek> oohh.. kopete do jabber ?
 * MattJ mumbles something
<MattJ> It does, but not brilliantly - not that I've ever used it
<MattJ> Just help people who have
<MattJ> If you like Kopete and it works for you, great :)
<Flashtek> well, it's already installed..
<Flashtek> I am going to use gtalk
<MattJ> Didn't know you were using KDE, all the clients I recommended are GTK/Gnome
 * Flashtek actually has Kubuntu
<MattJ> Psi and Swift (the latter isn't in the repos yet) use Qt
<MattJ> but try Kopete first if you want
 * Flashtek will
<suprengr> just been looking at NORAD's santa tracker.  Not long before he's in the UK.  QUICK everybody, hide the mince pies & alcohol! If we all do it I bet he looses enoughn wieght to make his stupid red troosers fall down amd proove he waers red knickers & red suzzies !
 * AlanBell has just been hiding some of his alcohol
 * AlanBell goes off to "hide" the mince pies too
 * suprengr congratulates al
<suprengr> num num
<bigcalm> Hi kids :)
<suprengr> Santa's current location - Athens, Greece.  I bet he hoped Greece was actually Grease.. a.k.a gosse fat sandwich with lard dressing
<suprengr> hurry kids.... hide that booze and mince pie salad
 * suprengr wishes you all a good one [and pleeese don't tell Santa what I said]
 * danfish is full of Christmas cheer (and zider)
<danfish> one year, my dad bit into the carrot left out for santa's deer and lost a tooth.
<danfish> Finding a dentist on xmas day was rather amusing !
<bigcalm> Ouch
<danfish> bigcalm: all presents wrapped up and accounted for?
<bigcalm> danfish: mostly
<bigcalm> Seeing GF's family tomorrow, so those are done
<bigcalm> Then seeing my family on Sunday, so we have a little more to wrap
<bigcalm> I got my GF's done a few days ago :)
<danfish> bigcalm: remember, BP garages are a always good for last minute pressies...
<bigcalm> Are you still wrapping?
<bigcalm> Hehe
<danfish> ....though a bag of coal does not go down well will the in laws :P
<Laney> so so bad at wrapping
<danfish> Laney: amazon are very fgood at it
<danfish> and with that I bit you all a good evening, christmas, new year and the end of a past 2 'monthus crapus'!
<Azelphur> I'm impressed with my G2, it runs a playstation emulator very well
<Azelphur> I played gran turismo for the past hour :D
<MartijnVdS> wo.. just found the "Limited edition: 89/1000" tag on one of my records :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: 5?
<Azelphur> wat?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: GT5?
<Azelphur> no, playstation one emulator.
<Azelphur> gran turismo one.
<MartijnVdS> oh The Original
<MartijnVdS> cool :)
<Azelphur> lol good luck at GT5 on a phone any time soon
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: well they said they would be adding "remote play" capabilities for b-spec ("team manager") mode
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: for the PSP or anything else that does Remote Play
<Azelphur> heard about that :D
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: oh there's better stuff than that, there are companies that are starting to cloud compute games
<Azelphur> and stream it to you with low latency video codecs
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Not trusting that yet -- Sony can't even keep its servers up on release week :)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I'd love to do it from home
<MartijnVdS> The more playstations you buy, the smoother the action!
<Azelphur> haha :D
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I was thinking run the game in a separate hidden X session at the phones resolution and stream it via VNC or maybe VLC with something funky for input
<Azelphur> but I don't know how to do the X session stuff :(
<MartijnVdS> that's what remote play is, basically :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<AlanBell> huh! http://twitter.com/#!/noradsanta/status/18410072795258880
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Viewsonic GPL update - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/131682.html
<MattJ> !info sqlite3
<lubotu3> sqlite3 (source: sqlite3): A command line interface for SQLite 3. In component main, is optional. Version 3.7.2-1 (maverick), package size 22 kB, installed size 168 kB
<heeed> yo ho ho all
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-25
<penguin42> heeed: And yo ho ho to you
<Azelphur> what webcams do people have working with Ubuntu btw?
<Azelphur> I'm after something not too expensive but not crap, mid range I suppose :p
<UndiFineD> logitech quickcam
<Azelphur> UndiFineD: which one?
<UndiFineD> an old crappy one
<UndiFineD> it is dusty
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> UndiFineD: look at label for me? :D
<UndiFineD> it has been peeled off
<Azelphur> haha
<UndiFineD> kids
<UndiFineD> but it works hen i need it
<Azelphur> might just get a pro 9000, kinda expensive but good quality
<mumbles> happy christmas
<peter74> Good tidings to you mumbles
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Any UVC cam wil work
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: UVC = cool
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ad site, but http://www.uvccompatiblewebcams.com/
<ball> Merry Christmas Britain!
<MartijnVdS> ball: Merry Christmas America ;)
<MartijnVdS> or should I say "Happy Holidays" just to annoy people ;)
 * ball grins
<ball> I have a stinking cold.
<ball> I may sleep in the recliner tonight.
<cr215> hi. it would be awesome if someone could tell me ho to make sound come out thru the hdmi... the picture was a sinch for my tv but sound is a prob
<cr215> is anyone there?
<cr215> is nyone talking at all?  my conworknection is good but it wont
<cr215> i cant c anyone else
<exobuzz> well. you can hardly expect lots of action here xmas morning at 7:40am!
<exobuzz> oh. they went anyway
<ball> hello cr215
<ball> oops, too late.
<ball> exobuzz: He, she or it didn't even give anyone time to answer.
<danfish> it sure is early, but a Christmas toast to all with a glass of Bucks Fizz :)
<danfish> I cannot believe the packaging on kid's presents - I've just had to use a pair of heavy duty wirecutters to get a present out of it's wrappers
<exobuzz> danfish, on the booze already ? :)
 * exobuzz has been up since 3am. ready for a wine actually.
 * ball is off to bed.
<ball> ...or the recliner, anyway.
<shauno> bah.  just realised there's not enough coffee at the office to last the weekend :(
<danfish> exobuzz: small kids - up since 5am. A Bucks fizz with a brekkie of salmon and eggs is an xmas tradition :)
<danfish> shauno: working? :(
<shauno> yeah.  it's a good thing.  4 days of good money this year :)
<shauno> just feel like a bit of a prat for not stocking up before the shops shut
<danfish> shauno: shops are open widely 2moro
<shauno> can grab some from home tonight.  just gonna be a bit tight today
<shauno> not a real problem, just a bad way to wake up  heh
<popey> Azelphur: see http://popey.com/blog/2010/12/20/my-ubuntu-webcam-setup/
<popey> Azelphur: there is a link there to the webcam I have which I use for http://popey.com/webcam/ - and it's a UVC cam
<popey> danfish: sounds yummy! I had scrambled egg and bacon sarnie :)
<czajkowski> Merry Christmas :)
<danfish> popey: egg and bacon - a winning combo! Merry Christmas
<exobuzz> danfish, sounds nice! got any left? gimme 10 mins!
<danfish> czajkowski: merry christmas to you, but shouldn't you be starting to make your way back here, y'no, in case of more bad weather ;)
<exobuzz> happy xmas popey
<kazade> Merry Christmas all! :)
 * kazade is still waiting for his girlfriend to wake up :/
<exobuzz> you can always help her wake up!
<exobuzz> i mean with breakfast in bed or something :)
<kazade> she's got 15 minutes, then I'm getting a bucket of water
<kazade> ;)
<exobuzz> you romantic ;-)
<danfish> kazade: the bucket of water will of course have 24 red roses in it ;)
<kazade> :)
<kazade> so, what did everyone get then?
<AlanBell> happy christmas all \o/
<danfish> kazade: socks
<AlanBell> I got a mug with chickens on it :)
<kazade> danfish, traditional ;)
 * kazade wants a chicken mug
<danfish> AlanBell: do the chickens lay eggs in this cold weather?
<shauno> sounds like they lay mugs
<AlanBell> danfish: about one egg a day
<AlanBell> between the three of them
<danfish> AlanBell: so an omelette takes a few days then, but tastes of freedom :)
<exobuzz> dvd, teacosy for my head, socks
 * exobuzz also wants chicken mug
<exobuzz> :)
<Ferb> merry xmas everyone
 * Ferb detects this channel is dead
<Ferb> yup its dead alright, mabe its because its xmas
<exobuzz> strange how people think if you dont get a reply within 5 mins, then a channel is dead
<UndiFineD> Ferb sees dead people, they are everywhere
<exobuzz> heh
<kazade> I got a flying lesson!
<kazade> Amazing!
<MartijnVdS> kazade: pushed from a high window? ;0
<kazade> :p
<dutchie> stupid family abandoning me on christmas day to go to church
 * dutchie is all alone apart from dog and cat
<shauno> and the internet :)
<dutchie> yay, the internet
<MartijnVdS> all of the internets
<Phineas> merry xmas all
<MartijnVdS> you too Phineas
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  what have you got so far?
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: nothing -- we're doing presents tonight when everyone is at my parents'
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  oh i have done my stocking, not the tree prezzies yet
<MartijnVdS> Being single = not much in stockings :)
<MartijnVdS> Though I guess I could count my Kraftwerk LPs and Alela & Alina EP :)
<MartijnVdS> (limited edition! 89/1000! http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/112522-alela-alina/)
<dutchie> MartijnVdS: i thought you could buy things in stockings in .nl ;)
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: rent :P
<dutchie> heh, true
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  i got some underwere, an Odie dressed up as a red indian and allot more
<MartijnVdS> I like the low number on my limited edition (also, it's nice music :)
<Pendulum> I am the only person in my house who is awake and I suspect my grandmother will sleep for another 3 hours so I don't know any of my gifts yet :(
<Phineas> yeah
<Phineas> Pendulum,  like i said i have done the stocking but not the treeeeeeeeee
<Pendulum> Phineas: I can't even do stocking until at least my parents' are up! Family tradition!
<Pendulum> urgh. and I just failed and put a possessive where there shouldn't have been one :(
<Phineas> Pendulum,  me too, my parents woke up at about 7:30AM GMT
<dutchie> i suspect it is silly o'clock for Pendulum
<Phineas> so my stocking is done
<Pendulum> it is 6AM here
<dutchie> see, silly o'clock
<Pendulum> my parents were awake for about 10 minutes earlier when my brother rang before he went off to his Christmas stuff, but they went right back to sleep
<Phineas> dutchie,  its 11:05 AM here
<dutchie> yes, and that is a sensible time to be up on christmas day
<Pendulum> but I've actually been up for a couple hours as I'm sharing a room with my grandmother so if she falls in the middle of the night, someone is there and can get help. And she snores and talks in her sleep
<Pendulum> so I gave up trying to sleep
<Phineas> Pendulum,  thats why i never sleep with my grandparents, they snore
<MartijnVdS> ...
<Phineas> allot
<MartijnVdS> http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
<Phineas> i know
<Phineas> guests come round at 2
<MartijnVdS> alot of guests? 8_)
<Phineas> quite a few yeah
<Phineas> some of the guests you wouldn't expect nomaly
<Phineas> its gonna be a long slow xmas
<Phineas> i worked it out rather than asking you guys woot woot
<Phineas> i'm not so stupid after all
<Phineas> i installed a font all by myself
<MartijnVdS> did we ever say you're stupid? :)
<Phineas> nope but i did
<MartijnVdS> Never assume the worst :)
<Phineas> XD
<twager> OT..My son has bought me an iPod Touch..Do I have to install windows and itunes to get it to work ?
<brobostigon> happy christmas all.
<Phineas> twager,  use rythembox
<Phineas> brobostigon,  happy xmas to you too
<brobostigon> Phineas: :)
<brobostigon> thanks Phineas
<Phineas> your welcome
<brobostigon> Nadolig Llawen
<twager> Phineas, Thanks..Do I tell it to initialise ?
<Phineas> twager,  it should power on on connect
<twager> Phineas, I started Rythmbox and it tells me the ipod must be initialised before Rythmbox can use it. ?
 * brobostigon reckons he should be getting drunk and eating, insted of being on irc, maybe.
<Phineas> twager,  yeah initilize it
<twager> Phineas, If I went to my mates and used his windows box to install itunes would I still be able to install mp3's from Linux ?
<Phineas> twager,  yeah
<twager> Ok Ta..Thisk I will do that...Do not want to bugger up the ipod :-)
<shauno> yowser .. customer with a server room at 53C .. think I just ruined someone's christmas =x
<Phineas> outch thats hot
<penguin42> shauno: Don't aircons really love being left alone for a day?
 * Phineas puts his santa hat on even tho its itchy
 * Phineas grabs himself a glass of Kinnie
<Phineas> mmm kinnie
<Phineas> you do know what kinnie is don't you?
<Phineas> where can i find an Neo-Geo pocket color emulator
<Phineas> ?
<Phineas> whats a good linux game
<Phineas> ?
<brobostigon> openarena
<Phineas> brobostigon,  what type of game is that
<brobostigon> Phineas: a shoot-em-up like quake.
<Phineas> brobostigon,  one of my fave games for ubuntu would be Beneath a Steel Sky, do you like that one?
<brobostigon> torcs is also good, a carracing game.
<brobostigon> Phineas: not heard of it, sorry,
<Phineas> brobostigon,  it is in the softwere center
<brobostigon> Phineas: ok.
<Phineas> brobostigon,  be sure to check it out
<brobostigon> Phineas: iwill see. yyes.
<Phineas> brobostigon,  its based on a dos game but it is fun tho
<brobostigon> Phineas: :)
<Phineas> brobostigon, WARNING: contains mild language
<brobostigon> i see.
<Phineas> brobostigon,  it is T rated
<brobostigon> Phineas: ok.
<Phineas> brobostigon,  you know what that means don't you?
<brobostigon> not totally sure.
<Phineas> brobostigon,  Rating(s) 	
<Phineas>     * ELSPA: 15+
<Phineas>     * ESRB: T
<Phineas>     * Apple: 12+
<brobostigon> ok.
<Phineas> brobostigon,  i know i am a bit young to play it but its free and fun, point and click adventure game
<brobostigon> Phineas: ok. no worries.
<Phineas> brobostigon,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beneath_a_Steel_Sky
<Phineas> brobostigon,  releaed in march 1994
<brobostigon> Phineas: yes.
<Phineas> brobostigon,  what do you think?
<brobostigon> Phineas: i am quite busy here, i havent managed to get a goodlook nor an install.
<Phineas> xmas is always busy
<Phineas> brobostigon,  heres a screenshot of the first level    http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6531/screenshotfh.png
<Phineas> brobostigon,  how does it look to you?
<MartijnVdS> '90s
<Phineas> 100's
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  actualy the game is from 1998
<MartijnVdS> that's what I said
<MartijnVdS> 90s :)
<Phineas> oh yeah
<Azelphur> popey: I gave into your will and bought a Logitech business 9000 :P
 * suprengr counts down to Dr. Who by watching Shrek 
<suprengr> 9
<kvarley> Happy politically correct holidays ubuntu-ers
<Azelphur> kvarley: isn't that winter fest?
<kvarley> Azelphur: Not sure lol
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/615177 hmm, I'm still getting this bug on my TV
<Azelphur> but it's marked as fixed :S
<Azelphur> suppose I'll have to bug people after christmas about it :p
 * suprengr gives up on Shrek  [boring] & switches to Top Gear while still counting down to Dr.Who [2 hrs to go!]
<popey> Azelphur: nice one
<Azelphur> :)
<popey> be interested to know what resolution you get out of it
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> should do 1280x720
<Azelphur> I got a HTC Desire Z too
<popey> unlucky
<Craig_Dem> Avatar is on if you need to pass the time.
<Craig_Dem> Sky Premiere, HD and 3D.
<brobostigon> blackadder is also on tonight,
 * suprengr panics... what TWO countdowns for fun.. panics - grabs bottle of beer, smiles
<Azelphur> popey: why unlucky?
<popey> android :(
<Azelphur> wat
<Azelphur> what's wrong with android
<popey> I'm not impressed by it
<popey> see past discussions here about it :)
<penguin42> popey: So put Ubuntu on it then.....
<Azelphur> ^
<popey> hah!
<popey> right, make it worse
<Azelphur> lol'd
<Azelphur> so which mobile OS do you actually like?
<Azelphur> if you say iOS I'm going to loose my faith in humanity
<popey> iOS
 * Azelphur looses faith in humanity
 * Azelphur hugs his built in wifi tethering
<Craig_Dem> I sit with an osx device on my lap, one in my hand and one on my desk :/
<Azelphur> fail
<Craig_Dem> And my feet rest on a Linux box :)
<popey> that's probably the single only feature I miss, wifi tethering
<popey> not enough for me to switch back
<Azelphur> popey: I love my emulators too
<Azelphur> Have a fully functional playstation emulator :D
<Azelphur> been playing gran turismo on it while I'm in bed sick with flu
<suprengr> Craig_Dem: [just seen your msg] - only freeview here so just the 2 countdowns still... phew!
<danfish> everyone having a jingly xmas day?
 * penguin42 jingles at danfish
 * brobostigon gets another beer
<danfish> brobostigon: excellemt idea
<brobostigon> danfish: :)
<czajkowski> danfish: don't jinx me
 * danfish opens a bottle so sharp's doom bar
<suprengr> Azelphur: had it... tried working with for 3 days [up to point where temperature = "seek urgent medical attention"] - what a mistake - I'm over it & back working but still exhausted from the damn thing.  You have my fullest sympathies
<Azelphur> suprengr: most of my family has been knocked out for 1 week + with it, I managed to resist it until most of them was better
<Azelphur> when I got it I came up with the sane idea of drugging myself and sleeping for 14 hours
<Azelphur> I've nearly beat it in one day :D
<brobostigon> danfish: i have hook norton, twelve days, here.
<suprengr> Azelphur: don't get too over confident... I did - it literally nearly made me extinct as it's revenge - go careful & take care.
 * penguin42 has been trying to recover from it for 2 weeks
<Azelphur> haha, noted
<Azelphur> :(
<penguin42> got the delux version with added eye infection
<Azelphur> but yea taking it easy anyway, as I say slept for 14 hours and now I'm just chilling at my desk sipping water and honey+menthol stuff :p
<Azelphur> penguin42: nice
<Azelphur> on the first day of christmas my true love gave to me...flu :D
<suprengr> penguin42: yep - that I can understand - Azelphur note!
<Azelphur> haha
 * suprengr chuckles smugly
<penguin42> and I seem to have something up with my left ear still - I do not want that cold/flu again thanks
<suprengr> penguin42: wot! something up your left ear - get it out - that's illegal ;D
<penguin42> hmm
<suprengr> [it's Chrimble - bad jokes allowed
 * penguin42 doesn't normally wait
<suprengr> http://tinyurl.com/2esnjan  or http://preview.tinyurl.com/2esnjan [if you prefer] for proof of banks being frightened of the truth
<Craig_Dem> I just saw that on reddit.
<OmNomSequitur> What did everybody have for Christmas dinner?
<OmNomSequitur> I ate about 12 sprouts today.
<Craig_Dem> We're having ours in 20 mins.
<Craig_Dem> I can smell it getting ready :/
<danfish> turkey curry tomorrow with the traditional roast potato and sprout bombay aloo ;D
<_H> anyone experianced o2's returns policy?
<_H> dhl couldn't deliver my parcel [it was less than 2000 meteres from there depot] so it was returned to o2
<_H> http://pastebin.com/45aY4Mz7
<Azelphur> doctor who about to start on bbc 1 :D
<brobostigon> yay,
 * brobostigon is already there.
<brobostigon> no spoliers.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: dumbledore dies on page 596
 * Azelphur runs
<brobostigon> lol
<jpds> Azelphur: Snape kills dumbledore*
<Azelphur> xD
<mgdm> Dobby kills Gollum
<matti> ;]
<bigcalm[eee]> Hi kids
<Nafallo> popey, Daviey: fwiw, my mirror just swapped httpd. let me know if you guys see any problems ;-)
<kazade> evening everyone!
<kazade> you guys all had a good day?
<Craig_Dem> Is 21.5 billion CRC errors with my ADSL nnnor
<Craig_Dem> normal?*
<Darael> Probably not.
<Darael> Depends on the timescale involved, of course.
<Craig_Dem> About 3 minutes :/
<Darael> Probably not, then.
<penguin42> 21.5B in 3 minutes - is that possible?
<shauno> good question.  I don't think you can make a packet smaller than 160 bits.  21.5B * 160 is 3440 billion bits.  over 180 seconds, that's just over 19 billion bits per second, or 19000Mbps
 * penguin42 guesses he doesn't have 19Gbps dsl
<shauno> either my math is broken, or it'd be impressive to see a residential router even pass that many packets
<shauno> not sure what a normal error rate looks like, but my gut feeling is no, that wouldn't be normal :)
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
<Craig_Dem> It seems to be a common problem on the Bt Homehub v2.
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-26
<penguin42> sounds like a broken counter
<Craig_Dem> I think it is a hardware/Firmware problem, hasn't risen from 2,147,480,000
<Craig_Dem> Up to 318 FEC Downstream errors though.
<penguin42> ooohhh - I thought you said 21BN, 2.1 B is a whole different kettle of fish
<penguin42> that's just close to 2^31
* oppla changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:   http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday December 30th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Happy Winterval \o/
<Azelphur> uhh, strange russian dude comes in and changes the topic sends a weird CTCP and leaves?
 * Azelphur looks suspiciously
<Ferb> I have returned
<Ferb> how was xmas?
<MartijnVdS> I guess everyone is still sleeping off their hangovers ;)
<Ferb> I supse your right, I got a few things I liked, how about you
<Ferb> did you get anything you liked?
<MartijnVdS> a book full of "how to" pictures 8-)
<Ferb> my top two was a cuddley toy of Odie dressed up as a red Indian and a years subscription to the Beano
<MartijnVdS> "Gas medicine"?
<Ferb> what?
<MartijnVdS> www.beano.net
<Ferb> nope the Comic book
<MartijnVdS> ah, slight difference ;)
<Ferb> yeah
<Ferb> my first comic is due to arrive this Tuesday (i think)
<Ferb> whats your face Beano comic
 * MartijnVdS doesn't know it
<Ferb> www.beanotown.com
<Ferb> that one
<Ferb> what do you think?
<Ferb> did the website work?
<Ferb> MartijnVdS, did the website work?
<AlanBell> popey: wassup with oppla tinkering with the topic? can't see anything bad in it, but odd.
<Ferb> I notaced that as well
 * Ferb makes himself a Kinnie
<Ferb> ubuntu is reliable and free so download it for free today
<Ferb> ;)
<Phineas> hi all
<suprengr> o/
 * Phineas detects this channel is dead
<popey> it's not dead, its resting
<suprengr> it's nor even pining for the fjords
<alexcckll> Morning....
<popey> it is
<alexcckll> Yeah yeah... ;-)
<alexcckll> Brass monkeys out there... chilling and iPlayering...
<Phineas> oh ok
<shauno> no monkeys here :/  it's decided what all that ice really needs is some rain
<suprengr> whoopee - temperature's back up to -10 at last :}
 * suprengr thinks of going sunbathing
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:   http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday December 30th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Happy Winterval \o/
<daubers> ................Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> o/
<niall> \o
<daubers> Slept till 10:45 this morning
<niall> Is this a deodorant advert?
<daubers> Don't think Armageddon could have woken me
<daubers> DId get some sugru for christmas \o/
<daubers> Oh dear....
<daubers> http://www.podsafeaudio.com/index.php?t=browse_song
<suprengr> anyone out there understand "load" [as in Screenlets Sysmonitor... what is the bit with 3 n.nn figures describing "Load"]
<daubers> suprengr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_(computing)
 * suprengr opens link & thanks daubers
<suprengr> daubers: cheers
 * suprengr now counts himself as edumacated re "load"... & feels stooopid for not guessing ;)
<twager> Anyone tell me how I transfer music files on my sons ipodtouch to my ipodtouch ?
<MartijnVdS> twager: plug in one ipod, copy files to local library in rhythmbox (select the ipod in the left pane, then select all songs in the right part, drag them to your "Library" in the left pane)
<MartijnVdS> twager: then unplug, plug in the other ipod, and drag the songs from your library to the other ipod
<twager> MartijnVdS, Thanks...Will give it a whirl..
<jacobw> happy boxing day ubuntu people
<penguin42> hi jacobw
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: more like unboxing day ;)
 * jacobw has a new jumper, and is snug
<gord> huh, youtube has upped the upload limit on some accounts to unlimited, including mine. time for me to upload five hours of me ranting about why i hate the star wars prequals!
<gord> its because they suck
 * Nafallo â¥ U1MS
<MartijnVdS> â«
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: ^
<Nafallo> just found yet another album from when I was a kid :-)
<Nafallo> been missing this music
<Nafallo> - I sneak into your house, and sleep between you and your wife, because I'm a nervous wreck
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: which music? :)
<Nafallo> Souls - Bird Fish or Inbetween
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: I've been browing my dad's record collection.. he has a WEIRD taste ;)
<Nafallo> wow. I still remember the lyrics... *sings along*
<czajkowski> aloha
 * Nafallo wonders what he'll buy next...
<Nafallo> Skunk Anansie by the way this is going :-)
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: keep it cheap, add this to your radio stations: http://shoutcast.omroep.nl:8102/listen.pls
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: Dutch radio :)
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: I've got http://stream.magicalforest.net:8000/rk-high if I feel like streaming ;-)
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: do they have this? http://top2010.radio2.nl/
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: I'm the admin of that icecast proxy, so can easily add whatever I want ;-)
<Nafallo> makes sense to put a relay closer to me :-)
<Nafallo> heh. U1MS doesn't have Abhinanda :-P
<Nafallo> almost surprised.
<MartijnVdS> ooh. Top Gear tonight :)
<matti> Is public transport operating on boxing day in the UK?
<matti> I never remember
<matti> :<
<jacobw> i think so..
<matti> Right ;]
<jacobw> by which i mean yes
<matti> It will save me up to 30 min walking in the snow then ;]
<matti> jacobw: Tx.
<Nafallo> matti: transport for london is on strike at least.
<SuperMatt> not all of it
<SuperMatt> there's stil buses
<Nafallo> sure
<Nafallo> but if they were supposed to be off, they wouldn't be striking today ;-)
<matti> Nafallo: So, no DLR?
<Nafallo> matti: I'd check the homepage before travelling today.
<Nafallo> no idea what's open or not TBH.
<Nafallo> I bought enough food to sit the strike out, and Relentless sent me free energy drinks, so I'm all good ;-)
<Azelphur> Daviey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/615177 my TV is still suffering from this
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 615177 in mysql-5.1 (Ubuntu Lucid) "mythtv schedules broken due apparmor mysql profile" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<Azelphur> shouldn't the fix be out by now?
<Azelphur> or if anyone else can see how to work around ^
<Karti> Hi all, is it better to give  server a fixed IP rather than lock it down to a fixed ip address from within a dhcp server ? Cheers
<penguin42> Karti: Yes, that way if the DHCP server or networking fails, when the networking comes back the server is still accessible
<zleap> just downloading ubuntu 11.04
<zleap> alpha
<jacobw> have fun
<MartijnVdS> wow
<MartijnVdS> an AC'97 winmodem (PCI)
<MartijnVdS> where did I get _that_
<popey> retro
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: xmas present? :-P
<zleap> jacobw, thanks
<zleap> just going to have a look for now, it seems unity has caused quite a stir
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: nah, found a box of old hardware
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: give it all away next year as xmas presents? ;-)
<zleap> Nafallo, sounds good
<zleap> :)
<MartijnVdS> Intel 10/100 card as well..and a GSM phone from the stone age
 * Nafallo can't stop popping today again...
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: bubble wrap?
<zleap> i got loads of bubble wrap and similar here
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popping
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: ah, "popping some caps"?
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: you're quite the dancer, aren't you.. Step Up 3D, Popping, ... :)
<Nafallo> wait until after I've had my first lesson with Boy Blue ;-)
<suprengr> hmmm Boy Blue... how Little can one get??
<MartijnVdS> and the man on the moon?
<Nafallo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5c5FjJBTKE
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: "Little Boy Blue and the man in the moon" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH46SmVv8SU
<Nafallo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7CG3kc3fi4
<Nafallo> my yaw dropped there...
<Nafallo> holy smokes
<suprengr> as the doormouse said... "feed your head";  & Lewis DID know what he was referring to ;)
<sam_010203> Hello people....!!!   does anyone know if its possible to install KDE desktop without all the software that comes with it????  Thanks
<Azelphur> !punctuation | sam_010203
<lubotu3> sam_010203: Punctuation is good, but its overuse hurts readability:  Please refrain from adding many ?'s or !'s to the end of your sentences.  See also !enter
<Azelphur> sam_010203: I doubt it
<sam_010203> There is no doubt with linux, just an IS or and ISNT .... thanks anyway.
<jacobw> what is KDE desktop without all the software that comes with it?
<sam_010203> jacobw,   i have gnome desktop now.  if i install kde, will get loads of other software installs too....  dont want them!!! hehe
<Azelphur> sam_010203: but KDE without all those pieces of software is nothing
<Azelphur> gnome and KDE are collections of software to provide you with a "desktop environment"
<jacobw> you probably want kdebase-apps
<sam_010203> i have a browser, i have skype.  i dont need all the extras that come along with it.
<jacobw> sudo apt-get install kdebase-apps
<sam_010203> jacobw,    ill try it now
<jacobw> KDE comes in lots of little parts :p
<jacobw> argh. why did he quit
<BigRedS_> jacobw: to "try it now"? ;)
<jacobw> hmm the "must part IRC to complete an action" mentality
<BigRedS_> though why that involves quitting I'm not sure...
<BigRedS_> yeah, I'm also a bit confused by the mentality of acting upon a suggestion as soon as one's made
<BigRedS_> not really leaving time for discussion
<UtrinqueParatus> if i wanted to add /dev/sdb1 to fstab with rw access for everyone what would be the line?
<UtrinqueParatus> /dev/sdb1   /media/2tb    ext4    rw    0     2
<UtrinqueParatus> is what i have but its not working
<Nafallo> s/rw/defaults/
<UtrinqueParatus> defaults didn;t work either
<Nafallo> then check that /media/2tb exists, and that the partition is actually set up as ext4
<UtrinqueParatus> it does and it is
<Nafallo> well, in that case it worls :-)
<Nafallo> works even
<popey> define "not working"
<popey> have you typed "sudo mount -a" or "sudo mount /media/2tb" after?
<UtrinqueParatus> jdownloader cant write to the directory
<popey> is it mounted?
<Nafallo> have you set yourpermissions right on the filesystem then?
 * popey tickles Nafallo 
<Nafallo> cause default is root:root 755
 * Nafallo licks popey
<popey> \o.
 * popey melts
<Nafallo> popey: are stores open tomorrow? and will they have cheaper pricing yet? :-)
 * BigRedS_ wonders why popey would know
<BigRedS_> (quite genuinely, I'm intrigued)
<Craig_Dem> Sales started today.
<Craig_Dem> afaik
<Nafallo> BigRedS_: popey knows everything. and he's fun to blame when he didn't :-)
<Nafallo> Craig_Dem: ta
<BigRedS_> Nafallo: Oh yeah, there is that :)
<Nafallo> popey: btw. when can I expect some test traffic for my new uupc httpd? ;-)
<BigRedS_> Nafallo: test traffic?
<BigRedS_> just http to it and see if it works
<directhex> yes, sales are salin'
<Nafallo> BigRedS_: yeah, I guess I could run ab from somewhere....
<Nafallo> but that would be just one IP hitting it :-P
<Nafallo> BigRedS_: I changed to thttpd :-D
<BigRedS_> Nafallo: irritate Anon, you'll get loads of IPs :)
<Nafallo> bah. I think they should just release a new episode :-P
 * suprengr looks at topic & keeps wondering: if channel topic is scared of the word "CHRISTMAS"... how dare it be so presumptuous as to precede it with an assumption of happiness!
 * suprengr can't wait to see the farce it makes of EASTER
<suprengr> [whoops. just used two forbidden words]
<zleap> hi
<zleap> anyone tried 11.04 bet
<jacobw> how goes it zleap ?
<zleap> good thanks
<_H> I have a deal here for a Dell PowerEdge 1850 1u 1x Intel Pentium 4 Xeon. Fsb 800 selling second hand for Â£80 is this a good deal?
<stgraber> I bought the same two years ago for 100 CAD (Â£64). At this price it's still cheap for an actual rackmount server though.
<stgraber> bought mine from an HPC cluster that was being replaced by newer generation hardware, they had some 800 of these to sell back then.
<UtrinqueParatus> popey, Nafallo : thanks guys it was the permissions on /media/2tb
<sprite> which DLNA server would any of you recommend? So far I've been advised that PS3mediaserver is mose gui/n00b friends and compatible with most dvdplayers and tvs
<MartijnVdS> My NAS is a DLNA server, but before that I used mediatomb
<MartijnVdS> no idea if that's still current
<sprite> I would be surprised if it is but time will tell. THis is the most quiet I've seen this channel
<d3ngar> Hi, I need some help with ALSA. The sound system doesn't work properly - very shaky... Sometimes it gets the right devices, sometimes the devices do not work at all
<d3ngar> It's very random
<d3ngar> The microphone is the biggest problem
<d3ngar> It's on and off
<d3ngar> Within the same session and then somtimes working after re-start and then not at all again
<thegenie4> howdy
<thegenie4> i'm getting a 45 second hang time before my bios post splash screen
<thegenie4> and when i shutdown from ubuntu
<thegenie4> the OS shuts down
<thegenie4> but the laptop is still running with a blank screen
<penguin42> what do you mean by 'before my bios post splash screen'
<thegenie4> it says lenovo thinkpad
<thegenie4> before it boots the OS
<penguin42> what do you mean before it boots the OS
<penguin42> you mean it just sets at the Thinkpad lovo screen for 45 sec?
<thegenie4> exactly that
<thegenie4> no
<thegenie4> no before it gets to the thinkpad logo screen
<thegenie4> there is a 45 second lag with a blank screen
<penguin42> weird
<thegenie4> after that screen shows it boots as normal
<thegenie4> i've tried resetting bios to defaults
<thegenie4> taking the cmos battery out for a couple of hours
<thegenie4> no luck with either
<penguin42> got any USB devices or the like plugged in?
<thegenie4> no
<thegenie4> i've even tried it without the HDD
<thegenie4> still the same
<thegenie4> i'm thinking it's something do do with the BIOS
<penguin42> yeh well at that point there isn't much else
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-19
<ctuser> cabrerajorge2009@yahoo.es
<HazRPG> Hmm, I have no sound on ubuntu... and having trouble diagnosing as to why... can someone please give me a hand?
<HazRPG> alsa 1.0.23, Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) HD Audio Controller
<MooDoo> hello al
<sagaci> Hi
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: check /proc/asound/devices
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also ubuntu-bug audio
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it has some basic checks
<MartijnVdS> (and files a bug if they fail :))
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<djones> Morning all
<djones> Happy last minute, crazy week, pre christmas shopping time
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> I need to get myself to the postoffice
<bigcalm> What time do they usually start?
<djones> I think about 9am
<MartijnVdS> 10:30?
<bigcalm> Would rather go before work
<bigcalm> Arse
<bigcalm> Actually, I only need some stamps. I think that part of the shop will be open
<MartijnVdS> If it's anything like .nl, they'll be open one hour after work starts, and they'll close 1-2 hours before it ends
<bigcalm> Heh
<MartijnVdS> same as banks
<bigcalm> They don't want your business then
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Obviously
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: but sometimes other people send me stuff that ends up at the post office because it's too big for my letter box
<bigcalm> Yeah, we have that option as well. But working from home has an advantage there
<bigcalm> Except I'm sure that delivery drivers wait for me to leave the house to call
<MartijnVdS> they try two days, then go to the post office
<MartijnVdS> oh and they try around 13:00ish
<MartijnVdS> so you can't even take HALF a day off
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> It's nice to have something in common to grumble about ;)
 * bigcalm pops off to the shop before he gets engrossed in work
<christel> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<christel> it is really cold today
<MooDoo> i don't mind the cold
<christel> see, i wouldn't mind if it didn't feel warmer outside than it does inside
<christel> :p
<MooDoo> lol
<christel> morning TheOpenSourcerer :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I used to live in a house like that christel. My 1st house in Bracknell was fairly modern with double glazing but the previous owner had removed the central (warm air) heating,
<christel> DING
<TheOpenSourcerer> In the winter sometimes I'd open the front door to go to work and warm air would rush *IN* :-D
<christel> this house was buildt in the 70s, the previous owner did indeed remove some of the radiators -- i suspect they didn't find radiators all that pretty
<christel> so downstairs they removed them in the kitchen and the lounge, there's one radiator in the hallway (which well, does f all as i have an open staircase and it just goes straight upstairs) :)
<christel> every winter since we moved here i've been saying "oh remind me to get some new radiators put in, at least in the kitchen (the majority of wall is window and patio doors)
<christel> and then i promptly forget until it's really cold at which point i am not tempted to have any installed because it involves turning the central heating off whilst the plumber does his Thing!
<TheOpenSourcerer> We are having some issues with our central heating right now funnily enough. Need to get a plumber out to look at it. Seems to be working but the rads/hot water are just barely warm... :-(
<christel> auchies
<christel> christmas is not the time during which you want your central heating to give up the ghost!
<TheOpenSourcerer> indeed.
<daubers> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> daubers: Like you think I would know?
<bigcalm> Good morning christel :)
<bigcalm> Gah, why does it have to be a pixel hunt to resize windows?
<christel> morning bigcalm
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: :) I dunno! You might know if you where getting him bits for christmas
<daubers> Are they little spacemen or little knights?
<TheOpenSourcerer> daubers: Nah - I took him to a Game Workshop place a couple of weeks ago where he spent some of his hard saved cash. It's the 40,000 version if that helps?
<daubers> Ah :) If he's relativley young and running of the advice from the staff, probably space marines
<TheOpenSourcerer> He's 11
<TheOpenSourcerer> That sounds like the right thing.
 * daubers spent last night painting these http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1490005
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm.
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Something like these I would imagine http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1060074
<daubers> I have a friend who plays space marines. They tend to fall pray to sheer brutal firepower of my armour every time :)
<daubers> </geek>
<popey> </yes>
 * MooDoo keeps quiet :D
<daubers> Painting the little models is surprisingly stress relieving
<MooDoo> daubers: i know i've done it for years :D
<daubers> MooDoo: 40k or fantasy?
<MooDoo> daubers: 40k
<daubers> Smurfs?
 * daubers has yet to meet a smurfs player
<MooDoo> daubers: no eldar harlequins
<daubers> Ah, fair enough
<daubers> My guard haven't faired well against any eldar force yet
<daubers> need moar tanks
<daubers> ...anyway....
<daubers> Anyone know of any tools for writing DMI information from linux rather than DOS?
<daubers> (Also, this was my desk at work the day after the works christmas do.... http://daubers.co.uk/~matt/thurs_after.jpg)
<kiko> haro
<popey> mmmm kenco
<bigcalm> Mmmm Carte noire
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<kiko> just looking at Zorin os and wondering what its real raison d'etre is? Unless there is some real uner-the-bonnet difference, like some special wine integration out of the box, it essentially looks to be Ubuntu with a an ugly windows theme?
<AlanBell> kiko: you would probably be best off asking the developers of Zorin
<kiko> AlanBell: fair enough
<directhex> never heard of it
<kiko> just stumbled on it going through distrowatch looking for potential alternative to ubuntu
<AlanBell> dunno why people keep making vanity operating systems rather than improving existing ones
<kiko> there are a lot of ubuntu derivatives now, including zorin. the name caught my eye, as they were the evil company in the 80's bond film with grace jones
<kiko> AlanBell: I agree... its one of teh down-sides of open-source I suppose.... I don't know whether the Debian community felt the same way about Mark going off and creating Ubuntu?
<AlanBell> kiko: oh, very much so
<AlanBell> but the debian community has many points of view
<kiko> to be fair, I think Debian community would agree now, in the long run Ubuntu has brought something distinctly different
<directhex> yeah. EVIL ACCEPTABILITY OF NON-FREE EVIL!
<kiko> directhex: beacause they include propriety codecs out of the box? They're not the only ones.
<directhex> EVIL!
<AlanBell> that is one point of view :)
<kiko> I like that there area  handful of various distros, but hundreds, different from one another by name and a theme only sometimes. Would be nice to see all that creative energy going into making better apps and improving existing distros instead of duplicating already existing work
<bigcalm> A client's server is being upgraded to PHP 5.3. This will break the client's project. The server hosting company say that CGI PHP 5.2 will be available upon request. What would one need to do to make an existing PHP project use CGI instead?
 * popey notes that Zorin OS claim to have ~500M users
<popey> er, 500K users âº
<alex__> hello everyone! how to make writing permissions in samba? i need it for different autentificated users.. how to add users, and manage permissions?
<bigcalm> alex__: I recommend using the samba web interface SWAT
<alex__> :-?
<bigcalm> alex__: alternatively, webmin
<alex__> swat is not worked properly in my case
<bigcalm> Samba is hell to configure :)
<kiko> popey: never heard of them until last nite, but in 17th position on distrowatch
<bigcalm> distrowatch stats mean nothing
<bigcalm> Haven't people learnt this yet?
<MooDoo> obviously not
<popey> we mentioned them on the podcast nearly two weeks ago. this can only have helped
<bigcalm> Last podcast of the year/season/series tomorrow
<bigcalm> How will we cope?
<popey> oh you'll cope
<popey> its a fun one too
 * bigcalm bites his nails
<bigcalm> I'd love for the WC to gatecrash
<popey> heh
<kiko> my 11.04 install seems to be crumbling. Either old pc or its a bug. I've resisted upgrading to 11.10 because my system was working just fine, and not too keen [still] on Unity
<bigcalm> kiko: there are alternatives to fighting
<bigcalm> Erm, unity
<bigcalm> StarWars stuck in my head now
<bigcalm> I run xubuntu-desktop (xfce) and we get along fine
<kiko> bigcalm: I do prefer gnome to xfce, although I haven't looked at xfce in a long time
<bigcalm> I tried Unity, it didn't work with my 3 monitor setup, moved to xfce. It looks like gnome 2
<kiko> xfce looks closer to gnome than kde but functionally quite different, no?
<bigcalm> *shrug*
<kiko> k
<bigcalm> I'm less of a hacker and more of a user these days.
<bigcalm> Spending my entire day on the computer has sapped geekyness from me
<popey> bug 906246
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 906246 in usb-creator (Ubuntu) "Option to 'discard on shutdown' is greyed out." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/906246
<kiko> "Pornbuntu distro coming soon" lol  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/12/nsfw-adult-lens-and-porn-scope-ready-for-testing/
<smittix> bah bug 786325 hasnt been resolved yet :/
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 786325 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Unable to change mouse cursor theme and size" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/786325
<AlanBell> popey: with your usb creator thing, did you have 1024MB free space on that stick?
<popey> AlanBell: no
<AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~usb-creator-hackers/usb-creator/trunk/view/head:/usbcreator/misc.py#L21
<popey> AlanBell: so it should let me select to have no persistence file
<popey> which is what I want
<AlanBell> yes, it is a bug, but that is why it is grey
<AlanBell> I think it will not do a persistence file whatever it is set to
<popey> thats not clear
<czajkowski> morning
<MooDoo> morning c\
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<jussi> czajkowski: are you sick?
<alex__> czajkowski you are Russian?
<czajkowski> jussi: very tied
<czajkowski> alex__: no
<czajkowski> MooDoo: hi
<alex__> Polish?
<jussi> I dont htink Ive ever seen czajkowski say "morning" as a greeting on irc before...
<alex__> :)
<czajkowski> alex__: no Irish.
<czajkowski> jussi: yeah same on emails, if there is one missing means it's a cranky email
<jussi> czajkowski: aww :(
<alex__> huh.. czajkowski is great Russian musician
<jussi> czajkowski: one of our sheep died on the weekend :(
<czajkowski> alex__: it's a polish surname
<MooDoo> jussi: normally she says aloha :D
<jussi> MooDoo: thats correct ;)
<AlanBell> my daughters are now arguing over whether firefox or chromium is the best browser for playing binweevils in
 * popey frowns at hamitron's rdns
 * hamitron frowns at popey's frown
<hamitron> ;)
<Twinkletoes> Most of the articles I've found about squid, talk of authentication using apache2-utils.  Is that more preferred than pam_auth for squid?
<hoover> hi folks
<jutnux> \o hoover
<czajkowski> MooDoo: https://plus.google.com/103026851842985992505/posts  photographer from the weekend workshop
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yeah had a look at the weekend, looks fab :)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: it was nice and a reasonable price
<czajkowski> MooDoo: Nice thing was once I uploaded my pics to G+ he went through and gave tips on soe of them
<MooDoo> czajkowski: which is always good :)  are you getting into photography now?  or have you been for awhile and just putting stuff on net?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: just like to play with the gadgets usually have my point and shoot nikon with me, but wanted to get better with my D40
<czajkowski> MooDoo: http://pix.ie/czajkowski/1605210/in/album/355816
<MooDoo> awww bless :)  I've just upgraded my D60 this weekend
<Twinkletoes> I can find this manpage on pam_auth for squid, but can't find the package.  Am I missing anything?  http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man8/squid3_pam_auth.8.html
<czajkowski> MooDoo: as I don't know London well I went on a photo walk http://pix.ie/czajkowski/album/411941
<AlanBell> you will have a cockney accent soon
<czajkowski> AlanBell: eh no
<kiko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qj8p-PEwbI&feature=related  bs media lies
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i like them :D  are you on auto on your camera or are you using something else?
<czajkowski> at the weekend auto was off
<czajkowski> and set to A or M
<czajkowski> on pix.ie stuff it varies
<MooDoo> cool :D
<czajkowski> not great at night shots on the DSLR
<MooDoo> czajkowski: just purchased a Nikon D300s with battery grip :D
<czajkowski> nice
<czajkowski> one guy had a battery grip on his
<czajkowski> tried to hold it hand is not big enough to balance it properly
<MooDoo> it's easier when you're trying to do portraight shots and don't have to reach over the camera :)
<czajkowski> true
<czajkowski> http://pix.ie/czajkowski/2673613/size/800  was my fav from the weekend shot
<bigcalm> czajkowski: that's lovely
<czajkowski> thank you
<bigcalm> Love the moody sky contrasting with the sun shining on the stone work
<bigcalm> czajkowski: if you have an SLR, get a circular polarising filter - great for sky, water and cutting down reflections
<MooDoo> nice
<bigcalm> czajkowski: good use of the golden rule as well
<AlanBell> what rule is that then?
<bigcalm> The golden rule of 3rds
<MooDoo> rule of thirds?
<czajkowski> pure fluke in that case
<bigcalm> Sorry, golden ratio, not rule
<bigcalm> Some cameras will have an option to show a grid over the view to line things up
<bigcalm> This is quite interesting: http://www.jakegarn.com/the-rule-of-thirds/
<czajkowski> forn teh 29 quid we got over 3 hrs hands on workshop, leafelet and sticks to help us remember stuff.
<czajkowski> it was definately worth it
<bigcalm> Nice
<czajkowski> bought it via groupon for 29 quid and its on again at 70% off
<MooDoo> czajkowski: member of your local photography club?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: thanks, that makes sense now, I was trying to figure out what thirds had to do with the golden ratio
<bigcalm> Ah
<czajkowski> MooDoo: nope
<czajkowski> they'd proably be a lot more advanced than I am
<bigcalm> I really wish I would make time to go out with my camera
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you should, invaluable, you might be the youngest there by about 70 years but they are worth it.
<bigcalm> czajkowski: the best way to improve your photography after being helped with the basics is to take more photos
<MooDoo> czajkowski: our has people that have never picked up a camera to ones that take photos with mobiles :D)
<czajkowski> might look into that in the new year
<czajkowski> I'm only here for one more day
<bigcalm> There's a ruined abbey down the road from me. Must go there with a camera
<czajkowski> bigcalm: next time you've a week off work I don't expect to see you on here, I expect to see some new pics!
<czajkowski> deal!
<bigcalm> Haha. Yeah, why not?
<bigcalm> Can't I do both? :P
<bigcalm> It's piddling it down today. Might be a good time to take moody shots of the abbey
<MooDoo> bigcalm: czajkowski and any other photographer - http://prjmphotography.blogspot.com/2011/12/get-to-know-photographer.html
<czajkowski> BTW, if anyone here is intereted in a similar photo workshop http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/south-london/mark-andreani-photography/2185215
<czajkowski> he also runs more advanced ones
<bigcalm> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=lilleshall+abbey&ll=52.724792,-2.389897&spn=0.00115,0.002334&client=ubuntu&channel=cs&fb=1&gl=uk&hq=lilleshall+abbey&hnear=lilleshall+abbey&cid=0,0,11426842566732760975&t=h&z=19&vpsrc=6
<czajkowski> MooDoo: that;s a lot of questions!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i know :) :D
<bigcalm> Who is this Paul Mellors fellow anyway?
<bigcalm> Sounds a little nosey
<czajkowski> MooDoo: poke tonytiger and gmb
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yeah it's a right git ;)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy
<MooDoo> czajkowski: will do thanks
<MooDoo> bigcalm: rubbish ;)
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> I must admit, most of the photos on the 1st page aren't really concentrating on my photography and were used as a dumping ground
<MooDoo> bigcalm: moi - http://www.flickr.com/photos/prjmellors/
<czajkowski> ohh you know the way we have a rugby Ubuntu meet up
<czajkowski> we should have a photogroup meet up
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> good plan
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: this your job?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: nope, just a hobby, i would like it to be next year
<bigcalm> Good luck :)
<bigcalm> I turned my programming hobby into a job. But will always keep photography as a hobby
<MooDoo> bigcalm: got a few weddings, done a few photoshoots, it's all a learning process
<jutnux> Crisp Sandwich <3
<bigcalm> I was about to say that you can tell a lot about a person's tastes by their 'favorites' section on flickr. But then I found you've only fave'd 1 photo!
<MooDoo> lol yeah i don't tend to fave photos, just look
<MooDoo> bigcalm: and to be honest, i'm not sure why that's a fave
<bigcalm> :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: s/was a fave :)
<bigcalm> Ha
<christel> i take rubbish pictures unfortunately, so i never really bother bringing my camera anywhere
<MooDoo> christel: take it with you, get better :p
<christel> hehe
<bigcalm> That's the thing. The more you take the better you get
<christel> i think i've used my dslr oh about 6 times since i got it like 3 years ago :s
<christel> (it does, with the incredibly pricey sports lens, take some decent photos at the rugby and cricket, but that is down to the lens more so than me)
<MooDoo> christel: the cam/lens only takes the photo, you tell it were to point etc
<christel> ah but see, anything else i try to take photos of just comes out rubbish :P
<bigcalm> Sport can be a bugger
<bigcalm> A high ISO and an IS lens if you can
<MooDoo> christel: change the lens, read the manual and then go play
<MooDoo> bigcalm: you a canon fanboy?
<bigcalm> No
<bigcalm> I say IS as a generic term
<MooDoo> ah
<MooDoo> :D
 * brobostigon remembers having to change the aperture etc and things manually on a camera.
<MooDoo> not that there is anything wrong with canons :D
<bigcalm> My dslr is a Canon EOS 350D though
<bigcalm> Showing its age now
<MooDoo> nice, i nearly came away with the eos 7d at the weekend
<bigcalm> I really really want to reply to Barry Drake's mailing list email with "2012, the year of the Linux Desktop"
<bigcalm> Do not feed the inner trolls
<christel> mine is a canon also
 * bigcalm zooms in on christel
<christel> EOS 450D, wheter it's any good i have no idea
<christel> since i am useless with it
<MooDoo> i only went for nikon as that's the cam and lenses i already own, would be silly to have to restart my collection
<bigcalm> christel: it's the newer version of my camera. Tis good, you should get to now it a little more :)
<livingdaylight> bigcalm, testing xubuntu live :D
<bigcalm> livingdaylight: glad people are willing to try something different
<livingdaylight> bigcalm, most definitely. Would never have tried a linux-based os many years ago now, otherwise
<bigcalm> Oh, haha. I meant something different to Unity. A different OS is good too :D
<livingdaylight> yea ;)
<livingdaylight> just have to see whether I can get used to xfce and what if any significant differnences there are
<livingdaylight> no, regards, unity, impression I get is that a lot of people are willing to try something different.
<christel> MooDoo: ah yes, lenses. i've spent more on lenses than i did on the body (a lot more) -- because i went through a phase of just buying * in the hope i'd take better photos with different lenses
<bigcalm> :S
<bigcalm> Decent glass costs sadly
<christel> (and then i went a bit mad and actually purchased a weird telephoto lens -- i think i must have intended to take pictures of AlanBell from the other side of town)
 * MooDoo just got given a 24-70 2.8 sigma, that's lovely
<bigcalm> Hehe
<christel> but it's like fifteen feet long and i've yet to work out how to hold it up even when the cmaera is on a tripod and the lens is on a monopod!
<hoover_> hey biggie
<bigcalm> Howdy hoovie :)
<bigcalm> Do I go out in the rain and take photos of the abbey, or stay in the warm and play minecraft?
<hoover_> minecraft
<hoover_> ;-)
<christel> .~@?.;l,mkwe~e
<christel> er sorry, helpful small hands
<bigcalm> Hi David
<hoover_> Sweet ;-)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: photos!
<christel> photos of minecraft!
<Twinkletoes> Although the ubuntu manpages have an entry for pam_auth (for squid) it's not in the repos.  Do I just go ahead and create my own pam file for squid?
<hoover_> I've taken up simflying again... Falcon 4 BMS 4.32
<hoover_> terrible time killer like Minecraft ;-)
<HazRPG> hmm, MartijnVdS, thanks... just ran it and it said "This is not a genuine Ubuntu package" at the end o.O
<hoover_> cheers all
 * Twinkletoes notices everyone is asleep
<andylockran> I is awake
 * MooDoo is awake
<MooDoo> just
 * jutnux is awake
 * mattt is sweeping
<czajkowski> any london folks here, how do ye normally get to heathrow?
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: When I lived in Fulham I just got a taxi.
<directhex> prayer
<directhex> lots of it]
<czajkowski> directhex: no jinxing me
<czajkowski> flight at 10am
<directhex> i've taken the tube to get to the airport before, but urgh
<directhex> it's like zone 10 million, and crowded all the way
<czajkowski> tfl saying go to picdally circus
<czajkowski> another site says via padington
<czajkowski> and I hate paddington
<TheOpenSourcerer> But then my firm were paying (or a Virgin Chauffeur picked me up).
<jutnux> czajkowski: would probably be easier to book a helicopter
<directhex> tbh i take the bus given the option
<directhex> or even better, book a hotel&park nearby for the nighr before
<directhex> no frantic travel on the day of your flight, just a short shuttle bus to heathrow from your hotel
<czajkowski> directhex: I live smack bang in london, in theory it shou;dnt be an issue
<bigcalm> Oh my
<bigcalm> A coworker of Hayley has their business email using MS Comic Sans
<christel> oh dear
<bigcalm> This is in the council
 * bigcalm shakes his head
 * jutnux brandishes shotgun
<Twinkletoes> bigcalm: Any half-decent business doesn't use html at all in emails ;)
<bigcalm> This is the council
<jutnux> Anyone here use nVidia and KDE?
<jutnux> My fonts just went super tiny.
<directhex> jutnux, nope, you just grew super huge
<directhex> easy mistake to make
<directhex> next time, avoid eating mysterious cakes with "eat me" on the box
<ali1234> lol, classic
<ali1234> KDE has been doing that since 3.0
<jutnux> It's never done it before.
<jutnux> Any pointers? <3
<ali1234> it doesn't do it every time
 * jutnux kicks directhex
<directhex> try the bottle marked "drink me"
<ali1234> yes, override the display DPI in xorg.conf
<ali1234> it will probably still do it though
<jutnux> The problem: I don't seem to have an xorg.conf
<jutnux> At least not in the usual place
<ali1234> install nvidia binary driver first then
<jutnux> Ugh, it's still being a bitch
<jutnux> Fixed it, just forced the DPI on the fonts.
<zleap> hello
<Twinkletoes> Yo
<jacobw> does anyone know how to get the adsl username and password from a sky dg934g type router?
<jacobw> evening zleap
<MooDoo> http://www.skyuser.co.uk/tutorials/username_password_from_a_sky_dg934g_router.html
<Twinkletoes> jacobw: Yes
<Twinkletoes> jacobw: Backup the config file and read it in a text editor
<Twinkletoes> jacobw: Oh, I see - they've najjered the firmware.  I used a procedure to upgrade my sky-supplied one with a standard, some time ago
<jacobw> yes, the firmware keeps the adsl credentials from the user
<bigcalm> They don't want you using 3rd party hardware
<bigcalm> As it will break their terms of service
<bigcalm> People do it anyway
<jacobw> hmm, its not mine to upgrade the firmware off
<jacobw> somewhat irritating seen as it takes a random amount of time to initalise its adsl connection
<jacobw> o/ daubers
<jacobw> bigcalm: i think they'd have less calls to technical support if they made it easy to keep a backup router with the adsl credentials in case of problems
<jacobw> bigcalm: however, that assumes that more than 0.1% of people would do that :|
<ali1234> jacobw: disassemble the router and find the serial port
<ali1234> netgears always seem to have one
<jacobw> ali1234: i think that would void the technical support too
<ali1234> then you can look at what user/pass pppd is using
<jacobw> ali1234: its my landlords device
<ali1234> my old netgear could be disassembled without damaging any stickers
<ali1234> also try enabling telnet login
<ali1234> go to 192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?todo=debug
<ali1234> if that doesn't work there is another thing you can try
<ali1234> some windows tool that you run and it enabled telnet
<zleap> just redone my posters to include qr codes
<jacobw> i considered connecting the adsl the the adsl of a more friendly router and dumping the incoming pap/chap traffic
<ali1234> what
<ali1234> that doesn't work
<jacobw> iirc, pap sends passwords in the clear whereas chap doesn't
<ali1234> you cant connect dsl modems back to back
<jacobw> why not?
<MooDoo> :q!
<MooDoo> ooops
<ali1234> i dunno. try it
<ali1234> let me know if it works
<ali1234> i'll be very suprised
<jacobw> i'm reading about the windows tool now
<bigcalm> That sounds like an insult
<bigcalm> Calling somebody a windows tool
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> i'm not going to mess with adsl routers shortly before christmas
<jacobw> it'll have to wait :|
<zleap> hello
<zleap> i mean hello
<zleap> hi MonsterKiller
<directhex> STEAMSALEOMG
<BIGP33> HI ALL
<BIGP33> #uk
<jacobw> who uses giffgaff?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-20
<blake_l> ds
<blake_loring> dds
<AlanBell> morning all
<dutchie> morning AlanBell and everyone else
<christel> good morning :D
<cgriff> Wow someone's happy about the morning ;)
<dutchie> i am happy about the morning
<dutchie> it means my night shift is over and i can go to sleep :D
<dutchie> well, in 45 minutes
<cgriff> Heh well I haven't slept yet and don't really intend to until tonight
<TheOpenSourcerer> My brother-in-law built this 3rd scale model plane to test a new cheap eco-friendly plane that should be on sale next year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfVDMGuiOlo Looks really cool.
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://web.me.com/tony.bishop/e-Go/welcome.html
<cgriff> Wow that's pretty cool, I've never seen a rear-propeller aeroplane before
<TheOpenSourcerer> Apparently it will do ~100mph @ 70MPG!
<daubers> Morning
<cgriff> Mornin'
 * daubers impliments YaDB in django
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh dear. Shame: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/tech-industry/3326202/seagate-completes-acquisition-of-samsungs-hdd-business
<christel> ooh nifty (plane)
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: WD have almost completed buying hitachi now too :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - only two manf. left.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Samsung drives have been excellent - almost all of ours are spinpoints.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool - Top 5 gifts for Open Sourcerers: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/246503/five_lastminute_gifts_for_open_source_fans.html
<daubers> We use loads of samsung and probably a similar amount of hitachi
<daubers> Have used some WD 2.5" drives which weren't too bad
<czajkowski> aloha
<daubers> o/
<christel> morning lauraloo
<MooDoo> hello all
<czajkowski> hello lovely christel
<christel> how are you pretty lady? :)
<MooDoo> +1 christel :D
<czajkowski> christel: ntb, packing up last bits and working on some stuff here flight tomorrow :)
 * christel tickles MooDoo 
<christel> aah yes! off to ireland for christmas noms and festive fun? :)
 * MooDoo chuckles and tickles christel back
<czajkowski> christel: yup
 * MooDoo tickles czajkowski and hopes he gets away with it :D
<czajkowski> oi
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> love you
<christel> she is a bit loveable!
<MooDoo> christel: i know
<czajkowski> nutters
 * MooDoo hugs czajkowski 
<bigcalm> Good morning lovelies :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<popey> morning
<bigcalm> Howdy
<daubers> ah django, you do make me laugh sometimes
<daubers> There is no abstraction for a "password" field, but there is for an IP address field
<ging> can't let anyone know your ip! they can steal your internets with it
<daubers> Also.... I have a job opening coming up. So if anyone here who knows a bit about networking and a bit about python and  a lot about troubleshooting wants a job where they can design the entire process/system for their role, let me know :)
<bigcalm> Oh look, VLC has a santa hat on it
<AlanBell> daubers: feel free to mail the list with that
<MooDoo> daubers: sounds good.
<Twinkletoes> I'm trying to use pam auth, but constantly getting TCP_DENIED/407 errors.  I followed the instructions from here: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-networking-3/squid-with-pam-authentication-363470/#post4291686, with the addition of 'http_access allow auth_users'.  Can anyone help me troubleshoot please?
<Twinkletoes> Sorry... ^^^ (squid)
<daubers> AlanBell: Will do :)
<jutnux> Twinkletoes: sudo apt-get wgetpaste
<jutnux> sudo wgetpaste /etc/squid/squid.conf
<jutnux> Give the link here.
<livingdaylite> anyone use stresslinux?
<livingdaylite> hi jutnux
<jutnux> \o
<jutnux> Never heard of it.
<livingdaylite> jutnux: petting my external hd didn't revive it :(
<livingdaylite> guys looking for a cheap but good base unit
<livingdaylite> looks like my pc is a goner... I installed a fresh xubuntu but the problems persist. After some time of use the system simply freezes up
<ali1234> don't call it a base unit
<ali1234> also don't call it a "hard drive"
<occupy64k> soft drive?
<livingdaylite> I don't know whether it is hd , motherboard or what. The hd is a fairly new replacement, but I suspect there may be something with the box, but I don't know how to diagnose and narrow the problem down. I did a memtest and that showed no errors
<livingdaylite> hard to imagine that the hd is at fault [again/already]
<ali1234> i'm just saying
<ali1234> dont go in a computer shop and ask for a "base unit"
<ali1234> they will think you are a noob and try to rip you off
<livingdaylite> I'm considering a Lenovo H420
<livingdaylite> looking on ebay, I'm surprised how pricey these base units are [still]
<gordonjcp> livingdaylite: checked the fans?
<ali1234> what is your budget?
<livingdaylite> ali1234: Â£200-Â£300 Â£350 tops
<popey> livingdaylite: http://www.ebuyer.com/251310-zoostorm-desktop-7873-1036 200 quid
<Twinkletoes> jutnux: Can't find that in repos
<jutnux> Erm
<Twinkletoes> jutnux: (wgetpaste)
<popey> use pastebinit
<popey> !info pastebinit
<lubotu3> pastebinit (source: pastebinit): command-line pastebin client. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2-2 (natty), package size 30 kB, installed size 480 kB
<jutnux> Sorry, wgetpaste is in arch.
<Twinkletoes> jutnux: So do you want details of my squid config?
<jutnux> Yeah.
<Twinkletoes> jutnux: I'll detail the differences from a default install...
<livingdaylite> gordonjcp: seem to... you say fans? I have a big fan sitting on top of cpu and that is working
<livingdaylite> in bios I noticed that I have in health status fan options set to disabled and when I enabled them I got a big beep sound, so I turned them off.
<daubers> \o/ email away
<Myrtti> does anyone want to buy a Samsung PL-120 camera off my hands?
<Myrtti> still in packaging and shrinkwrap and all...
<Twinkletoes> jutnux: http://pastebin.com/NfzZtp3h
<jutnux> Twinkletoes, acl password proxy_auth REQUIRED?
<Twinkletoes> jutnux: It means that it will match any authenticated user
<jutnux> Yes is it in there?
<jutnux> Course it is I'm blind
<jutnux> Are you running a firewall?
<Twinkletoes> jutnux: No firewall.  I get challenged by the squid, but it seems to fail, with the error in the log
<Twinkletoes> jutnux: TCP_DENIED/407 2851 GET http://....
<jutnux> Have you opened the ports?
<jutnux> That's if you're trying to access remotely
<Twinkletoes> jutnux: It's working because squid challenges my browser
<jutnux> Ah
<jutnux> I have no idea then, sorreh.
<Twinkletoes> jutnux: Thanks for looking over it ; )_
<Twinkletoes> jutnux: My feeling was that pam wasn't returning the right code
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<jutnux> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ jutnux
<livingdaylite> popey: thanks. Looks like a good unit on the whole. Maybe one can't expect more for Â£200.  Doesn't specify motherboard or power unit... no hdmi either means I'd want to get a graphics card. but no bad reviews.
<gordonjcp> livingdaylite: the beeping suggests that one or more of your fans is not healthy
<gordonjcp> livingdaylite: this could be the cause of your problems
<BigRedS> Is there a firefox add-on that'll let me run regexes against webpages to edit teh html before display?
<BigRedS> or, more ideally, shove webpages through an external script before display
<AlanBell> greasemonkey
<BigRedS> oh yeah
<BigRedS> that'd do it
<BigRedS> I might even learn a bit of javascript in the process
<jutnux> s/Bieber/Douche
<livingdaylite> gordonjcp: the fans are working so, I don't know what's causing teh beeping. I agree though, beeping is not what one wants to hear
<monsterwizard> according to a new study
<monsterwizard> I'm not longer a person
<MooDoo> monsterwizard: you're a number now?
<monsterwizard> even worse
<monsterwizard> a hex number
<monsterwizard> how long would ubuntu take to install under wubi?
<ging> <------------------->
<monsterwizard> hahahah
<Myrtti> popey: â¥
<monsterwizard> lol it fails
<popey> hmm?
<monsterwizard> It installs the amd version :S
<monsterwizard> I have an i5
<Myrtti> popey: happy $seasonal_event :-)
<popey> :D
<zleap> livingdaylite, not sure if this helps,  my verbatim external hdd beeps if is is plugged into my old pc and that is turned off,
<monsterwizard> perl scalar?
<directhex> monsterwizard, erm...
<directhex> monsterwizard, "amd64" is the name of the instruction set. intel's clone is called em64t, or nowadays "intel 64"
<directhex> monsterwizard, amd64 code runs on 64-bit intel chips too, excluding itanium
<monsterwizard> :o
<monsterwizard> hahahahah
<monsterwizard> oops
<directhex> just as "i386" code runs on AMD chips too
<daubers> nom nom nom nom crisps
<monsterwizard> heart aatack :o
<popey> hello
<bigcalm> Good afternoon
<christel> hi popey, bigcalm :)
 * bigcalm jumps on christel 
<christel> meep!
 * MooDoo jumps on bigcalm 
<brobostigon> threesome, eeek.
<bigcalm> Oh no
<MooDoo> steady
<bigcalm> I was thinking more about 'pile-on!' from my school days
<bigcalm> I was usually at the bottom of said pile
 * MooDoo is a bit heavy to go on top of the pil on
<MooDoo> pile on
 * TheOpenSourcerer jumps on top and flattens the lot of you :-D
<christel> <3
<daubers> Woooooo! Shelving has arrived
<zleap> bigcalm, yeah know how u feel at the bottom of the pile sometimes, I work with kids,  so they still do this to each other.
<bigcalm> daubers: you have an exciting life there ;)
 * mattt jumps on top of dauber's shelving
<mattt> ouchies
<ubuntuuk-planet> [oimon] Power monitoring with linux&the low-energy way - http://oimon.wordpress.com/2011/12/20/power-monitoring-with-linux-the-low-energy-way/
<daubers> bigcalm: It's warehouse style racking shelving
<daubers> Very exciting :) Means I can reclaim some space down there
<daubers> also, I can order some zigbees tomorrow \o/
<bigcalm> daubers: this sort of thing? http://www.gigant.co.uk/products/view/3022
<daubers> bigcalm: Ish, but significantly larger
<daubers> bigcalm: Think warehouse type shelving
<bigcalm> Proper pallet racks?
<bigcalm> You must have a big house
<daubers> not my house, it's for work :)
<bigcalm> Ah, fair enough :D
<bigcalm> I used to work in a pallet wear house. Going up and down 80ft high racks
<bigcalm> The thought of such things in a house worried me
<jpds> bigcalm: That's a lot of servers.
<daubers> bigcalm: They won't quite be 80ft high
<daubers> but they are floor to ceiling
<bigcalm> jpds: joke.popey.com
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010227
<brobostigon> sarcasm.popry.com
<brobostigon> sarcasm.popey.com
<MartijnVdS> Popery.com?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: my finger hit the wrong button.
<MartijnVdS> I thought the English didn't like popery.. at least, around the 17th century
<selinuxium> Hi guys... Is there anyway of keeping couchdb in sync across different PCs... It would be useful to have my gwibber history available on my laptop and desktop...
<jpds> selinuxium: Ubuntu One?
<selinuxium> jpds, possibly... I just don't know the mechanics, and what if I have accidentally left the pc on when I am on the laptop? :
<jpds> selinuxium: Maybe oneconf would do it, don't know.
<selinuxium> jpds: looks interesting... Thanks i will take a look anyway.
<ali1234> razor-qt just made slashdot
<ali1234> i didn't know there was a ppa
<daubers> god, carphone warehouses phone system is pants
<daubers> Offers you an option to check the progress of a repair,  but then just gives you options to ask about a new repair
<oimon1> argh my tv aerial snapped off in the high winds the other day...just noticed in time for christmas :(
<Seeker`> oimon1: that sucks
<oimon1> bigtime
<Seeker`> I need to trawl through the listings and set stuff to record
<oimon1> never called a aerial repairman before, have no clue what to expect
<oimon1> not evn suere if i share it with my neighbour
<BigRedS> you probably don't
<oimon1> it's a terrace, but that might mean my neighbour has sky instead
<oimon1> we share a chimney
<BigRedS> yeah, but normally you'd just have one aerial each on the chimney
<BigRedS> IME - I'm not an aerial repair guy either
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: You could share aerials. Sat dishes are harder to share (but not impossible)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, you *could* but I've never known anyone do that
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: OK so it's not common.. :)
<MartijnVdS> or you don't know many people :P
<BigRedS> haha
<zleap> do the dvd rendering programs render in real time as in a 1hour avi will take 1 hour to render ?
<Seeker`> not likely
<popey> depends on the power of your computer
<jutnux> Probably not
<jacobw> dvd rendering?
<ging> i remember when it took all night
<zleap> ok
<zleap> ok i am converting the new voyages episode to dvd forma
<zleap> format
<tonytiger> Evening!
<tonytiger> I hope you're all getting ready to listen in two and a bit hours!
<bigcalm> Afternoon tonytiger
<tonytiger> hi bigcalm
<bigcalm> If only for the panto
<bigcalm> And I want to know what the WC has been up to
<tonytiger> :)
<pwuertz> sphinx
<daubers> evening
<zleap2> helllo
<zleap> where does bonbono dvd authoring software put output files, i can't find the directory it has said what i have just created in
<zleap> ok bombono or what ever its called
<zleap> ok mytery solved in a hidden folder .cache with in home
<smittix> evening all
<BigRedS> Good morning!
<smittix> Anyone know of a good speedtest site to test a 100meg connection?
<MartijnVdS> smittix: wget something from here: ftp://ftp.xs4all.nl/pub/test/
<smittix> coolio thanks!
<smittix> Hmm, can only get 1mb/s down from there.
<brobostigon> cool, roy wood is on hairy bikers, on bbc2. :)
<brobostigon> and he still looks like the hippy he was
<peejay1977> Hey all :)
<AlanBell> I have a bit of a big bootchart to decypher
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/alanlaptop-oneiric-20111220-1.png < warning, very very very big and crashes my session on oneiric trying to open it
<jutnux> AlanBell: I've opened it, have no idea what to do though.
<jutnux> Kind of useless I guess haha
<AlanBell> ok, seems part of the problem was I never let it idle for bootchart to stop, so it has my impatient startup of firefox in the chart
<jutnux> Oh right, okay.
<gordonjcp> what's the current favourite for video editing in Linux?
 * AlanBell likes openshot
<AlanBell> because I am not clever enough to use blender
 * Nafallo thought blender was for 3D modelling...
<AlanBell> it is, but it also has a video editor in it
<Nafallo> o_o
<AlanBell> you can have video textures on 3d objects and there is a powerful video editor in there to help with that
<gordonjcp> ooo
<gordonjcp> didn't know that
<gordonjcp> I was using kdenlive, that seems okay
<AlanBell> http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.4/Manual/Sequencer
<gordonjcp> no, openshot isn't really working for me
<gordonjcp> there appears to be no way to actually edit video with it
<gordonjcp> which seems like a major obstacle
 * Laney wibbly wobbly woo
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: what do you mean by edit video?
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: well, it lets me import a video file, and drop it on the timeline
<AlanBell> you can chop up clips and splice them together with transitions
<gordonjcp> and... that's about it
<Nafallo> gordonjcp: my android came with something for that... :-P
<AlanBell> the scisors icon lets you cut up the clip
<gordonjcp> doesn't appear to do anything here
<gordonjcp> oh okay, that just crashed X to an astounding degree
<AlanBell> oh dear :(
<gordonjcp> hm, need to power off the machine, it's hung the graphics card
<gordonjcp> I really, really hate Intel chipsets
<AlanBell> normally you drag clips to the timeline, click the razor tool (which is the scisors) and click the clip where you want to chop it up into bits
<AlanBell> then you can drag the smaller clips about, stick them on different timelines, throw them away etc
<AlanBell> and you can use transitions to go between timelines, and you can do animated titles which sets up a script of a blender template so it does rendered 3d text and effects that can overlay the videos
<AlanBell> night all o/
<Nafallo> hrm
<Nafallo> who's involved in the podcast these days?
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-21
<monsterwizard> has anyone had experience with wubi?
<jutnux> monsterwizard: Yep.
<jutnux> What's the problem?
<monsterwizard> I have an error
<monsterwizard> and it tells me to refer to this file
<monsterwizard> http://pastebin.com/VtkG7tsF
<jutnux> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'F:\\wubildr'
<jutnux> Do you have permission to run Wubi?
<monsterwizard> ahh the problem was python
<directhex> the problem is always python
<czajkowski> morning
<dutchie> hi czajkowski
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> Why is everyone up this early? :)
<czajkowski> heading to the airport
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: it's not snowing!
<czajkowski> I know this is good
<MartijnVdS> :)
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: have a nice flight, etc.
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: cheers, whats your excuse for being up this early ?
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: going to work in half an hour
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: also, I'm one time zone ahead, so it's 6:26
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: ahh where are you?
<MartijnVdS> the Netherlands, as usual :)
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: didnt know that
 * dutchie doing night shift :)
<czajkowski> dutchie: fun!
<czajkowski> right time to head
<czajkowski> toodles
<MartijnVdS> I'm also considering visiting the "glass house" in Leiden -- they've locked 3 radio DJs inside for a week for charity
<danfish> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<AlanBell> morning
<daubers> Morning
<BigRedS> morning
<MartijnVdS> Morning
<danfish> oops - the czajkowski effect on travel is in full swing ;) expect delays
<daubers> \o/
 * daubers does like it when he can hire people and get's responses to job ads not from agencies
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks he might have had a dodgy pint last night.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> New kernel = restart time. Boo :(
<christel> good morning
 * bigcalm tickles christel before vanishing
<christel> VANISHING CALM?!
<bigcalm> Better than Vanishing Clam
<bigcalm> I shall return!
<christel> hahaha
<christel> oh i remember when i kept typoing, and then decided to adopt said spelling, your handle as bigclam :D
<bigcalm> Yep :)
<popey> morning
 * bigcalm has returned!
<bigcalm> Hi popey
<popey> ?29
<popey> BAH!
<bigcalm> Na, 32
<TheOpenSourcerer> ?46
<popey> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/santaclauslive-inside-cam
<bigcalm> That's creepy
<smittix> Moaning
<smittix> Santa's coming soon!
<smittix> heh
<jutnux> Yay
 * jutnux becomes a 2 year old once more
<jutnux> C# is fast becoming my favourite language
<jutnux> Other than Python & Java
<smittix> Speaking of Java, I went to use an ATM This morning which had a Java error plastered across the screen
<HazRPG> smittix: ooo, did you take pics?
<HazRPG> could have been the adverts they use...
<smittix> Was going to but around here there has been a big press release about lebanese loops being used. So didn't want to look suspicious heh
<HazRPG> heh ah
 * gmb digs up popey's mumbuntu blog posts in preparation for installing inlawbuntu at the weekend. 
<bigcalm> Doesn't quite have the same ring to it
<popey> ruhroh
<gmb> No
<gmb> Could also be known as arghargharghwhywhywhybuntu
<gmb> Depends, really.
<MartijnVdS> GAWGWAARGHARGLBL?
<christel> yes.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> loes
<MooDoo> yo!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E22  The Unbeliever - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/12/21/s04e22-the-unbeliever/
<Nafallo> popey, Daviey: am I still in the mirrors list for the UUPC? :-)
<zleap> hi
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Quality In Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/12/21/quality-in-ubuntu/
 * aquarius punches popey for the ripping dvds comment :)
 * bigcalm pmsl at the panto
<popey> haha
<bigcalm> popey, tonytiger (Laura & Mark who don't seem to like IRC): What a wonderful play. Well done and thank you for all of the laughs
<popey> cheers
<aquarius> harsh to morley!
<bigcalm> Harsh to call anybody a Brummie
<tonytiger> bigcalm: thanks :)
<tonytiger> Nafallo: no, your mirror was disabled in May when it went down and up and down
<MartijnVdS> Jump up jump up & get down!
<Nafallo> tonytiger: meh. how useful :-P
<Nafallo> tonytiger: want to re-enable it? :-)
<Nafallo> I believe I changed httpd since then :-P
<tonytiger> I'll have to manually sync it
<Nafallo> oh. let me go and do that :-)
<tonytiger> It's OK, I'm already doing it
<Nafallo> heh. okay.
<Nafallo> I'll check logs then ;-)
<Nafallo> meh. looks like it's out of space.
<Nafallo> and indeed it is.
 * Nafallo fixes
<tonytiger> Let me know when it's fixed.
<Nafallo> will do
<Nafallo> I bet this machine will have had troubles installing new apt upgrades and stuff.
<Nafallo> tonytiger: okay. you can kick it again. I'm removing new linux kernels as well as having bumped the virtual hard drive a bit and re-partitioned ;-)
<Nafallo> s/new//
<Nafallo> it had 11 kernels installed ;-)
<Nafallo> might be a bit many
<MartijnVdS> Purge ALL the kernels
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: nah. keeping two :-P
<popey> wuss
<Nafallo> hah. loads of episodes downloading now ;-)
<Nafallo> sent 13984 bytes  received 821865266 bytes  19804319.28 bytes/sec
<Nafallo> total size is 10140137089  speedup is 12.34
<Nafallo> tonytiger: okay. I'm up-to-date :-)
<Nafallo> Wed, 21 Dec 2011 13:43:13 +0000: Ubuntu-UK podcast mirror operations completed.
<tonytiger> OK I've turned your mirror back on
<Nafallo> tonytiger: kewl. ta.
<bigcalm> xmas present from my employer - job security into Spring \o/
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yay!
 * daubers wants to sleep now
<MooDoo> daubers: WAKE UP
<daubers> MooDoo: I just shipped 12 servers, 12! 8 months ago I would ship that many in  6 weeks! Not 2 weeks into the month they where ordered!
 * daubers wonders whether this "recession" thing actually exists or if it's some kind of myth dreamed up by the government to hide something else
<kvarley> I just removed a storage hard drive from my computer and now my computer boots to grub rescue
<kvarley> It shouldn't have been affected by the change because the drive that grub is on is the only operating system drive
<kvarley> Is it possible that a change in sata cables to the motherboard is to blame?
<popey> kvarley: its more probably that the boot loader isn't where you thought it was âº
<kvarley> can I use grub rescue to install it to my hard drive? ah yeah, I remember now, the storage drive was the first hdd in the bios for some reason. so it will have installed grub to the first hdd
<popey> yeah, i expect so
<andylockran> howdy all
<andylockran> daubers: interesting
<andylockran> given that the FTSE was at ~6500 at it's peak, and now it's at ~5500 we're not going too badly
<andylockran> 5387 at the mo
<kvarley> "/usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot find a device for /boot/grub (is /dev mounted?)." - popey - any ideas? I get that error when doing "sudo grub-install /dev/sda"
<popey> kvarley: sorry, am on the phone
<kvarley> popey: no problem =]
<andylockran> kvarley: can you cat /etc/fstab and see if /boot/ should be mounted?
<andylockran> post the output of 'cat /etc/fstab' to a pastebin
<brobostigon> pastebinit /etc/fstab :)
<kvarley> andylockran: paste.ubuntu.com/777522/
<kvarley> http://paste.ubuntu.com/777522/
<daubers> meh, the stockmarkets all made up anyway
<kvarley> It doesn't show sda as being mounted
<Nafallo> tonytiger: http://stats.magicalforest.net/mrtg/pony.magicalforest.net_ent.html :-)
<andylockran> kvarley: can you now run : pastebinit `ls -ltrR /boot`
<andylockran> to be honest, I am unfamiliar with overlayfs too - so I might not be abl eto help
<kvarley> Unable to read from error
<kvarley> sudo?
<andylockran> sure
<andylockran> pastebinit `sudo ls -ltrR /boot`
<andylockran> gmm
<andylockran> ls -ltrR /boot | pastebinit
<kvarley> andylockran: http://paste.ubuntu.com/777535/
<kvarley> I'm running from a live disc tho
<kvarley> So anything in /boot will be the /boot on the disc, not the one on my hard drive
<andylockran> right
<andylockran> that makes more sense
<Nafallo> tonytiger: oh, in and out is swapped on that thing btw :-P
<popey> .49
<popey> oops
<s-fox> Hello.
<s-fox> o/ MooDoo
<Nafallo> popey: you should just modify your keymap to always do / if there are numbers after ;-)
<popey> âº
<kvarley> popey && andylockran: Fixed=D
<popey> yay
<kvarley> I did "ls" in grub rescue to find out the partitions and then "ls (hd0,6)/boot" to check it was Ubuntu. Then using a live disc I installed it =)
<kvarley> Thanks for the help
<andylockran> sorry I couldn't help more
<andylockran> thanks
<andylockran> good job :D
<czajkowski> AL!!
<czajkowski> Aloh!
<Pendulum> czajkowski: hiya!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: afternoon you gorgeous thing you :D *POKE*
<czajkowski> danfish: it's funny you say that
<czajkowski> between the bakerpool line and fog adn an mal functioning plane I got home!
<czajkowski> <----- KNACKERED!
<Pendulum> czajkowski: as long as you made it in under 100 hours this year ;-)
<czajkowski> Pendulum: I did
<czajkowski> and then went and visted family
<czajkowski> so just in the door now
<czajkowski> homne to lovely brown irish stew
<MooDoo> glad to see you home safe czajkowski
<czajkowski> cheers
<Azelphur> This is driving me a bit insane, trying to find out how to create a launcher in xfce 4 so that kupfer picks it up
<Azelphur> In gnome it was just right click on desktop create launcher
<Lcawte> Hmm, what is it that was changed between 10.10 and 11.04 in Ubuntu Server thats meaning my machine can now no longer handle booting 11.04...
<Azelphur> woo, had to write my own desktop file in an obscure place but I got it \o/
<oimon1> super meat boy doesn't run on lucid :(
<gord> oimon1, it prolly does, try deleting some of the static libraries it ships
<oimon1> gordi think it's realted to libgl1-mesa-glx
<bigcalm> I had it running in steam in wine
<oimon1> needs 7.10 version rather than 7.7
<bigcalm> Some bits didn't look right, but the main game worked well enough
<oimon1> looking for a PPA that might have later package
<Lcawte> Anybody have any idea what could be causing it to stall at the end of post?
<oimon1> https://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5252 looks like a similar bug to the SMB one
<lubotu3> bugzilla.icculus.org bug 5252 in everything "Segmentation fault on startup (32-bit Linux)" [Critical,Assigned]
<bigcalm> That will always be Super Mario Bros
<bigcalm> There's no escaping it
<oimon1> too scared to install a debian package from debian though :(
<oimon1> i only really bought the humble bundle for super M boy :\
 * oimon1 is feeling sad cos he has man flu too
<czajkowski> whoo the mothership has a lovely brown irish stew ready for me!
<jpds> There's a mothership?
<czajkowski> there is
<jutnux> Stew :-(
<oimon1> the other game i wanted Cogs crashes X too :(
<s-fox> stew \o/
<jutnux> stew :c
<s-fox> Nobody like stew?
<jutnux> No.
<jutnux> It's just a mash of everything.
<AlanBell> o/ czajkowski, nice trip?
<bigcalm> Stew rocks
<s-fox> hi5 bigcalm
<s-fox> o/
<bigcalm> Heh
<Azelphur> does anyone have a fix for minecraft sticky keys in 1.0?
<Azelphur> updating LWGL seems to cause it to crash for me :(
<bigcalm> It's been a bug since day 1
<Azelphur> yea but there's been patches about for it
<bigcalm> Oh
<monster2323> does anyone feel the feed to install themselves into the internet?
<Azelphur> ah there we go got it, the script I was using grabbed the latest LWGL which apparently minecraft isn't compatible with, 2.6 seems to let me in game, hopefully no more sticky keys
<gord> saw a guy with an ubuntu top on at the shop, i'm not alone in this town!
<bigcalm> gord: you don't feel so special any more?
<gord> i always feel special
 * popey feels gord's special
<popey> also, here is a picture of the wing commander
<popey> http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1646178816/tt0970179
<popey> guy with the moustach
<popey> +e
 * daubers always imagined him with a tash a bit more like http://www.campbestival.net/media/Mr_B_the_Gentleman_Rhymer_3_1304773842.jpg
<stevepdp> good evening folks
 * daubers goes home
<czajkowski> http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib/148/media-148168/large.jpg  was waht I had in my head
<czajkowski> ;c
<gord> http://www.gametronik.com/site/rubriques/abandonware_simulation/Jeux/Wing%20Commander%20III%20-%20Heart%20of%20the%20Tiger%20%28fr%29/Scans/wing-commander-iii-cover-art.jpg - what i had in my head
<s-fox> Goodbye.
<zleap> hi ubuntubhoy
<ubuntubhoy> ello
<zleap> hows it going
<ubuntubhoy> not so bad
<ubuntubhoy> but my internet is down
<ubuntubhoy> and my phone data connection is flaky
<ubuntubhoy> so tethering may or may not last
<zleap> ah
<zleap> i just switched over to unity
<zleap> on 11.04
<ubuntubhoy> how you finding it ?
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i have also tried 12.04 so that has a big improvement
<ubuntubhoy> I prefer Gnome Shell, but my wife and daughters prefer Unity
<zleap> i like having easy access to common apps
<zleap> i was using gnome but thought i have time so why not switch to unity and see how i get on,  not much major course work to get in the way
<ubuntubhoy> I have on this install, and it works pretty well
<ubuntubhoy> its a touchscreen though so I have it set to always show
<ubuntubhoy> but its good for my fat fingers
<zleap> i will look inot how to configure so it always shows
<zleap> i am going to try and promote ubuntu locally a bit more given we are one of the most deprived areas of the country (torbay) or aparently we are
<zleap> hi
<stuphi> Anybody here running 12.04? I think I have found a bug in 11.10 and wondered if it was fixed.
<AlanBell> stuphi: bug number?
<stuphi> I have not submitted it. Not found anything after a quick search but wondered if it was worth raising a bug if it has already been fixed in the next version.
<stuphi> If I open a terminal, and then use Ctrl+Alt+Num6, I then can't grab the edge to resize.
<zleap> ctrl-alt-f6 opens a full screen console on here
<zleap> f7 is the gui
<zleap> well ctrl-alt-f7
<stuphi> num pad 6
<HazRPG> hey guys
<stuphi> It may be intended to work like that. It is just chrome allows resize.
<HazRPG> i seem to be having a bit of trouble with my sound on 11.04 (was on 10.10, but upgraded since people recommeneded that it would fix it) but so far no joy
<zleap> ctrl-alt num keys seem to auto position the current active window
<stuphi> Yep, but sometimes I want to fine adjust after.
<zleap> i can resize from here on 11.04
<stuphi> For terminal and files I can't, but chrome, I can
<zleap> ctrl-alt-t
<stuphi> That gives me a new terminal.
<zleap> then doing ctrl-alt num keys resizes it right
<zleap> and on 11.04 you can'ty then resize
<stuphi> Yep. Now try and grab an edge
<zleap> and on 11.10 you can'ty then resize
<zleap> it works on 11.04
<zleap> so i guess the bug may be in 11.10
<stuphi> I was hoping to find somone with 12.04 so that I don't have to upgrade to see if it is fixed.
<zleap> stuphi, try #ubuntu+1
<zleap> as we may have narrowed it down to when the bug started 11.10
<stuphi> Ok. Thanks.
<zleap> np
<zleap> i will see if my cd boots and have a go
<stuphi> I am not alone! :-) bug 892368
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 892368 in unity (Ubuntu) "I can't drag a half-maximized window to be any wider anymore" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892368
<AlanBell> stuphi: oh yeah, I have seen that happen
<stuphi> AlanBell: Did you also see how to fix it? :-)
<AlanBell> nope, just un-half-maximise it
<HazRPG> anyone :(?
<zleap> stuphi, got someone in #ubuntu+1 so tried to ask the same question
<stuphi> zleap: My old nogin struggles to cope with multiple channels.
<stuphi> It's like trying to listen to two people at once. Just can't do it.
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i am trying to ask, at the same time as booting on anoter pc
<zleap> so keep needing to chance the cables around (1 monitor)
<zleap> change
<stuphi> zleap: Much apreciated. Don't bust a gut though.
<zleap> its not a problem
<zleap> 12,04 booting from cd is being a pain
<AlanBell> stuphi: doesn't work in 12.04 either
<zleap> AlanBell, so is that a bug then
<AlanBell> it is bug 892368
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 892368 in unity (Ubuntu) "I can't drag a half-maximized window to be any wider anymore" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892368
<zleap> ah
<zleap> grrrr live cd isn't booting
<zleap> and it worked the other day6
<stuphi> AlanBell: Thanks.
<stuphi> zleap: You have just reminded me. I promised an 11.10 CD for a friend. Must burn that now.
<zleap> ah np
<AlanBell> or, for the price of postage I can send an official CD if you like
<zleap> I was just going to mention that
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<Azelphur> What's a decent FS for an SSD? Should I just use EXT4 or is there some magic bullet for free performance :P
<AlanBell> Azelphur: someone pointed out that ext4 has some wear leveling optimisations in it for SSD
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> hamitron: bitcoin price...is rising :o It's up to Â£2.50
<jutnux> Bitcoins...
<jutnux> Didn't LulzSec get nearly Â£1,000,000 from BitCoins?
<jutnux> Oh
<jutnux> Realised I'm an hour late.
<dreamer_> exit
<AlanBell> enter
<daubers> hippo?
<ali1234> jutnux: there's only $7M worth of bitcoins... so no
<jutnux> Oh right.
<jutnux> Might have been Â£100,000 then,
<jutnux> They did get a lot though, I know that.
<ali1234> even if they did, if they tried to sell them, it would crash the price
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] And now for something completely different& - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=28
<paln> Hi guys
<AlanBell> hi
<paln> What you guys talking about?
<AlanBell> it is quite a quiet night really, but anything ubuntuish and ukish is on topic
<paln> ;D I haven't been on this channel in a looooooooong time
<paln> not much has changed
<AlanBell> must get round to redecorating it at some point
<paln> :P
<paln> Anyways, I have a question
<paln> Do you think Lubuntu 11.10 would work on a system with a 1GHz CPU and 128MB RAM?
<paln> I really need more RAM, I get that
<AlanBell> â â â snowflakes
<paln> But for the meantime?
<paln> hehe cool
<AlanBell> yeah, you need more ram. Might install though
<paln> Alright
<AlanBell>  you could ask in #lubuntu
<paln> What do you think the highest size module you could get of SDR ram would be?
<paln> I've been looking round but all I can seem to find is up to 512mb
<paln> It's a really old machine -- 11 years, 12 in February
<AlanBell> wow, what is that thing?
<paln> Runs windows ME
<paln> :D laughing ecstatically
<AlanBell> time for an upgrade perhaps, a little Atom motherboard would work just great and you can stick a few gig in that
<paln> Can't be asked to waste money
<paln> I've got a laptop
<paln> And I'm using an iPod touch right now
 * AlanBell looks in box of bits
<paln> How do you do that?
<AlanBell> I have a 128MB stick and a 512mb stick and an unlabled stick which looks a lot like the 512
<paln> SDR ram?
<AlanBell> PC133 stuff, I think it is SDR, has two notches in the base
<paln> U have ram modules on you right now?
<paln> Yep, that's ram
<AlanBell> yeah I know it is ram :)
<paln> I meant yep, that's SDR ram
<paln> Coooooool
<paln> I'm only 14 though
<paln> So I wouldn't think someone would have RAM lying around?
<zleap> i hate windows
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/ follow that procedure and put a note in it and I will send you an Ubuntu CD and the ram, you just pay the postage
<paln> zleap: can't say the same myself, but it's a pain most of the time
<zleap> just booted into windows, and it crashed,  rebooted and the system repair thing deleted files (or did something without asking)  and now it boots but won't get very far
<bigcalm> paln: sign up to a local freecycle list and you will occasionally find some gems
<zleap> well until i can get my printer working in ubuntu Iam stuck printing stuff using windows
<paln> zleap: u got a recovery cd? What make is your machine?
<AlanBell> or a LUG, loads of people have boxes of old stuff which they are happy to give to a good home
<AlanBell> zleap: what printer?
<paln> bigcalm: cool, will have to go to one sometime
<zleap> brother mfc j615w
<paln> AlanBell: thanks for the tip as well
<zleap> i have found the right software on the brother site,  and can't get it to work
<zleap> software centre says the deb files provided are bad
<zleap> or have serious errors
<paln> zleap: try opening them in gdebi-gtk
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i just need to copy a filter driver somewhere
<paln> It resolved quite a few issues I've had with deb files in the past
<paln> Btw I'm not new to Linux, but haven't really got into the community as such
<AlanBell> zleap: seen https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups/+question/145783
<bigcalm> paln: well done for making that 1st step by joining #ubuntu-uk :)
<zleap> ok thanks
<bigcalm> It's like gym membership - once you join, you can never leave
<paln> bigcalm: I did about a year ago, but was never to return...
<paln> That is, until now :D
<AlanBell> night all o/
<paln> AlanBell: see ya thanks for the help
<bigcalm> Good night AlanBell :)
<gordonjcp> I like the gym I go to ;-)
<paln> gordonjcp: good to know
<zleap> is there a commadn i can use to find out where myprinter is on the network
<zleap> as in devices / ip addresses
<paln> zleap: couldn't you use iwconfig ?
<paln> lists all network interfaces
<zleap> will ifconfig do that too
<paln> not sure, maybe
<paln> I'm not an expert
<paln> just an enthusiast
<zleap> same here
<paln> bigcalm: where'd ya go?
<paln> zleap: ;)
<paln> zleap: how long you been using Linux?
<zleap> the commands on the site i was given fail due to spefici directories not existing
<zleap> properly a few years,  but stareted out way back with the 1.0.9 kernel
<zleap> but that was just playing around with it
<paln> zleap: whoa that's long
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> my main claimto fame is I amon the first page of the dclug archive
<paln> I first started out with Ubuntu 10.04 to see what Linux was like
<zleap> circa 1999
<paln> zleap: yea I figured around 2000
<zleap> yeah i ahve used slackware, redhat, suse,  caldera (briefly, as it failed to let me log in)
<paln> zleap: lol I've never heard of Caldera...what's it based upon?
<zleap> still got the first 2 issues of linux world somewhere,
<zleap> not sure,  i will have to dig it out
<zleap> also got a cd of debian 1.2
<paln> my neighbours are American ad a couple years back they let two guys rent the place
<paln> last week they came back from America do they guys who rented it had to move out
<zleap> dunno i would have thought they would have to give some sort of notice
<paln> before they left they left outside the house a bunch of Linux CDs and old ThinkPads and Lenovo pcs with the weird trackpads between the J and k keys :P
<paln> I'm trying to find power adapters that wok with them so I can use the things
<zleap> cool
<zleap> the linux cd's may be useful
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-22
<paln> yea got really old Debian CDs (woody I think) and some Suse shit with a DVD that has fedora red hat and Ubuntu hardy on it
<paln> zleap: how old are you?
<paln> I'm only 14
<zleap> 36
<paln> got interested in computers from the age of like 8
<zleap> same here
<paln> well, interested in the workings anyway
<paln> I was always addicted to oca
<paln> PCs
<zleap> well 10 i guess but i was using games consoles before that
<paln> typo
<paln> tht pc I was discussing with AlanBell
<zleap> wood is debian 3 iirc
<zleap> woody
<zleap> right i have posted an e-mail to the list with the whole out put listed,
<zleap> see if I get any help from that
<zleap> paln you seen this www.raspberrypi.org
<zleap> arm based mini computer
<directhex> armv6 :/
<zleap> yeah
<directhex> so it can't boot ubuntu :)
<paln> zleap: yea I have
<paln> on omg Ubuntu
<zleap> looks pretty good i think
<zleap> i just wondered what theywill put in any IT programming related curriculum though
<paln> true
<directhex> IT has always been secretary training, and always will be
<zleap> yeah
<paln> I'm doing a BTEC IT course right now
<directhex> programming has no place in secretarial classes
<zleap> even programming will be business related
<paln> all it is is working with MS Access ATM
<zleap> e;g wirite a program to connect to a data base containing business data
<directhex> word training, excel training, powerpoint training. that's IT.
<zleap> rather than what would work with students at school write a game with a database back end
<paln> directhex: I know exactly what u mean
<zleap> I think they want Computing and IT
<zleap> computing being programming etc, thing is during the 80;s we just got on with it at home and did far better teaching ourselves than any teacher could in most cases
<paln> but programming is a different story
<directhex> i never did IT at GCSE or higher level. i already knew how to drive excel
<directhex> computer science a-level though
<directhex> VERY rare to be available
<paln> I know this great site wibit.net for programming tutorials
<zleap> you heard of  snake wrangling for kids (python book)
<directhex> during the 80's kids were trained to be programmers, courtesy of the BBC
<paln> zleap: nope
<directhex> and shock horror, in the 90s the UK was the global powerhouse in games development
<zleap> and sinclair, commodore etc
<directhex> totally unrelated, i'm sure
<zleap> this is the aim of the raspberryPI
<paln> directhex: never knew that
<zleap> only programmikng needs t be fun
<paln> take a look at some of the programming in C vids on wibit.net
<paln> there pretty funny at times
<directhex> we've had successions of political leaders who view subjects like computing as a joke, so go out of their way to sideline them in favour of stuff they perceive as more important
<directhex> for the UK to be #1, every child should be taught to code just as much as they're taught chemistry or physics
<paln> directhex: very true
<paln> directhex: but I don't agree with you there
<zleap> surely its about thinking skills too
<zleap> if people want to do programming they should be encouraged, helped, etc
<paln> directhex: students should have a passion for the subject
<zleap> paln,  i agree there
<directhex> paln, yes, but how do you provide sufficient exposure to *everyone* for a passion to form in kids who aren't naturally predisposed?
<zleap> also if u did gcse computing its exam based, whenin the real world is a development task like an exam, in the real world you collaborate on projects
<paln> however technology is becoming a larger part of our lives, and always has been
<directhex> if you make comsci elective, the only ones who try it will be white males with glasses and at least one PC at home
<directhex> there's a reason they force-feed a bunch of subjects to everyone
<zleap> if you look at the gold and platinum ingots to pass you HAVE to do X hours of real world project work in OSS
<zleap> so help with a project in someway,  not just programming but say writing docs etc
<directhex> not everyone takes those on to a-level or degree, but everyone gets a grounding
<paln> u both have points, but even if the governments wanted to implement a scheme like this, t would take at least a decade to become mainstream in schools nationwide
<zleap> plus you need the teachers to teach it,  to me that should be Ex industry people
<zleap> so people who have been there, done programming etc,
<paln> zleap: obviously necessary
<zleap> but how many teachers come from school to uni, to teaching
<paln> teachers without real world experience would just be plain useless
<directhex> paln, i suggest you look into the history of the BBC Computer Literacy Project
<paln> unless its theory
<paln> directhex: will do , sit
<paln> *sir
<zleap> even in other topics such as enginnering a good teacher who has done a job can share experiencs and stories to make lessons far more interesting and dynamic and they inspire people
<paln> or does Jo Shields imply you're a woman?
<paln> sorry.. :/
<gordonjcp> paln: have you ever met any teachers?
<directhex> paln, plus there's the BBC dramatization Micro Men, which is fun to watch
<gordonjcp> when I moved down to Glasgow about a decade ago my then-gf was sharing a flat with two primary school teachers
<paln> I'm 14, so I've only ever encountered teachers for IT when I have my IT classes
<gordonjcp> they were interested in almost *nothing*
<paln> and so I only know teachers on a school basis
<gordonjcp> they'd come in, Jen would maybe go to rugby practice (okay, she was a keen rugby player on the Strathclyde Uni women's team)
<zleap> most teachers I have experience with  can use a computer for what they need,  asking them to teach IT may not work
<gordonjcp> and then it would be a fun-filled night of the Friends box set and bacardi and coke
<gordonjcp> and occasionally, bacardi and coke and coca-cola
<paln> gordonjcp: lol
<gordonjcp> the two of them got through a frankly astounding amount of prang
<paln> brb
<zleap> k
<gordonjcp> paln: just wait until you meet your teachers socially after you've left school
<zleap> i would much rather see people join the ubuntu or OSS comminity with a willingness to learn
<gordonjcp> think the most embarrassing "meeting teachers in a social setting" was when I was in sixth year and a couple of friends and I bumped into three of our teachers in the pub
<gordonjcp> when we'd gone off a bit early for a wee pub lunch
<gordonjcp> ... and they'd done the same thing
<zleap> oops
<zleap> i takeit you mean sixth form
<gordonjcp> we just kind of nodded in mutual recognition and never spoke of it
<gordonjcp> yes
<zleap> as to me sixth year is like last year at primary
<gordonjcp> ah, no, in Scotland that's the same as sixth form
<gordonjcp> ie. 17-18
<zleap> ah
<hamitron> zleap, and 6th form?
<zleap> ok i get it
<hamitron> I just wondered if it is still called 6th form
<hamitron> :)
 * gordonjcp doesn't know
<zleap> yes
<gordonjcp> it was 20 years ago now...
<zleap> also key stage 5 i think
<hamitron> key stage?
<zleap> national curriculim
<hamitron> where they learn how to pick locks of level 5
<hamitron> :/
<zleap> so reception KS 1/2 = primary 3 secondary >14 14 - 16 = ks 4 and ks5 is As and A level
<hamitron> I guess numbering things in order is to help the younger generation to count ;)
<hamitron> unfortunately, I never reaped the benefits of such a system
<hamitron> \o/
<hamitron> 3 of my friends became teachers
<hamitron> but they only did it because they sort of failed at uni
<hamitron> :/
 * hamitron does wonder if they are the right people for such a task
<paln> haha
<zleap> those who can, do those who can't, teach
<zleap> apply that to programming and all the top programmers will do that job,  those that fail will end up teaching if you apply that statement
<paln> zleap: nice analogy
<zleap> thanks
<hamitron> tbh, listening to the nice wages teachers get, I've been tempted
<hamitron> :)
<paln> anyways, night guys, i just realised ts half past tomorrow
<zleap> ok nite
<paln> well now it's today
<paln> but whatever
<zleap> 3 days till xmas too
<paln> bye!!!
<zleap> bye
<paln> zleap: yep
<hamitron> I need someone to write my xmas cards :/
<zleap> oh well back to re-installing windows tomorrow so i can print
<zleap> what has happened to the search routine
<zleap> why does locate say a file exists when it does not even exist
<Nafallo> because it got removed between cron.daily and now?
<Nafallo> if you want live results, use find.
<directhex> evening Nafallo
<Nafallo> night rather :-P. hi there directhex
<zleap> ok
<paln> !seen AlanBell
<lubotu3> I have no seen command
<paln> hey
<paln> hey
<paln> hey mardi
<paln> AlanBell: You there?
<czajkowski> aloha
<gordonjcp> morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<danfish> did czajkowski get home yesterday?
<MooDoo> danfish: as far as i remember she did!
<danfish> MooDoo: a christmas miracle ;)
<czajkowski> danfish: I did indeed
<paln> list
<czajkowski> with only an hr delayed in total so not too bad
<danfish> yeah! Is the emerald isle a christmas wonderland this year?
 * danfish did the xmas food shopping at 0600 this am. No queues :)
<czajkowski> danfish: no it's really mild and long may it stay that way
<BigRedS> yeah, I do not understand this desire for christmas to be bitterly cold
<AlanBell> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<AlanBell> o/ paln
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: cheeky ! :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Surprised?
<czajkowski> nope not really
<czajkowski> its very you :)
<czajkowski> *it's
<paln> hey guys
<paln> what we talking about?
<BigRedS> The word "awesome"
<MooDoo> making sure czajkowski got home safe and she did
<paln> really?
<MooDoo> BigRedS: awsome,
<BigRedS> MooDoo: really? Awesome!
<paln> BigRedS: lol
<paln> who's  czajkowski
<MooDoo> paln: it's her ----------->
<MooDoo> paln: https://launchpad.net/~czajkowski
<paln> what are you pointing to MooDoo
<MooDoo> paln: i'm pointing to laura :D
<AlanBell> so what is everyone up to for Christmas?
<paln> is  czajkowski Laura then I presume?
<czajkowski> I am
<MooDoo> paln: maybe a better link - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/czajkowski
<paln> AlanBell: yay it's you again! :P
<AlanBell> yus
<MooDoo> paln: a very active member of the ubuntu community and part of the loco coucil and various others....
<paln> MooDoo: cool
<MooDoo> AlanBell: working boxing day, other than that, spending time with family
<MooDoo> and playing with my new camera :D
<paln> I need to use XChat -- I'm on an iPhone ATM
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 12th January 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | â â  â â
<AlanBell> snowman looked a bit lonely without some snowflakes
<MooDoo> looks like AlanBell is being a smarty pants :)
<paln> AlanBell: say, if I order a CD and take that pesky RAM off your hands, how muh do you think p+p would be?
<paln> AlanBell: lol at the snowflakes
 * paln smiles gleefully
<AlanBell> paln: second class large stamp on the inside and outside of the stamped addressed envelope
<paln> so basically you're gonna know my address
<paln> oh no...
<AlanBell> shock horror!
<paln> STALKER!!
<AlanBell> and you will know mine first
<paln> I know, I just realised
<AlanBell> STALKER!!
<paln> AlanBell: copied and pasted
<paln> alright then , I might do that ;)
<paln> I got a duck for Christmas yay!
<paln> they only had while turkeys and nobody's coming round for Xmas dinner
<paln> * whole
<paln> no! you've all left me to die on IRC!
<paln> seriously though, where've you guys gone?
<AlanBell> everyone is here
<AlanBell> but mostly at work and stuff
<paln> ah...
 * BigRedS admits to doing some work for a change
<paln> well I don't understand "work", being a teen
<popey> Morning all
<paln> popey: I remember you!
<popey> Ruh Roh
<BigRedS> actually, no, I got distracted writing an awesome one-liner that doesn't really save any time
<paln> from sometime last year
<popey> is that good or bad?
<paln> AlanBell: I asked popey the same question I asked you
<paln> alas, Lubuntu was kinda crap back then
<paln> popey: yes...why wouldn't it be?
<popey> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/12/15/%23ubuntu-uk.html#t18:52
<popey> ^^^ when you were here in 2010 âº
<daubers> Morning
<kvarley> Is there a way in an SSH session that I can open a file on the SSH server for editing with a local text editor on the client system? (gedit, for example)
<paln> popey: I just read through
<popey> kvarley: yes
<popey> kvarley: sshfs
<AlanBell> kvarley: in nautilus file-connect to server then choose ssh
<AlanBell> it is then accessible in gedit and most gnome applications
<paln> popey: how did you find that log so quickly?
<popey> I am awesome with google skills
<paln> popey: google? irc chat logs are indexed by google? I did not know that.
<kvarley> AlanBell: Thank you, I forgot to mention though that I'm on lubuntu not straight ubuntu. So I only have access to PCManFM
<popey> yes
<popey> paln uk site:irclogs.ubuntu.com
<AlanBell> kvarley: in that case sshfs all the way as popey said
<popey> is what I searched for
<kvarley> popey: sshfs is brilliant!
<AlanBell> sshfs works with everything too
<kvarley> popey: Next question is...How do I end the session and unmount the fs from the directory I mounted it too?
<paln> popey: I know I've been using t a lot
<popey> kvarley: umount
<paln> I just didn't know google indexed that site
<kvarley> popey: Ah ok, that will close the session tidily?
<popey> kvarley: assuming files are closed, ya
<kvarley> popey: Ok, thanks for the help...Again =D
<ali1234> X11 forwarding gedit fromt he remote machine is a lot less hassle
<BigRedS> paln: google indexes everything
<kvarley> ali1234: sshfs is rediculously simple too
<paln> BigRedS: not everything
<paln> just about 99.999 recurring % of things
<BigRedS> well, everything you don't specifically ask it to not
<paln> BigRedS: yeah...
<paln> AlanBell: could you hand me a link to the instructions for getting a free cd? or just write them here or something?
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<HazRPG> heyo \o
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yo yo yo!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: sup dude ^_^
<HazRPG> strangely enough, I'm looking forward to going to Egypt
<HazRPG> I will be there before new years :) (just in time for my mum's birthday)
<HazRPG> is there a way to stop unity for having my mod4+T as my bin shortcut... because I prefer using that for terminal
<kvarley> popey: How can I mount the sshfs in /media without manually creating a directory there. Like with my hard drive partitions, they are automatically mounted there with the drive ID or label.
<popey> pass
<ali1234> you can't
<kvarley> lol
<kvarley> ok
<kvarley> thanks anyway
<TheOpenSourcerer> kvarley: Can't it be scripted?
<kvarley> TheOpenSourcerer: Yes, I was just wondering if there way a magic way lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.debuntu.org/2006/04/27/39-mounting-a-fuse-filesystem-form-etcfstab
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> sshfs#my-remote-user@my-remote-host:/home/my-remote-user /my-local-filesystem/remotefs fuse defaults 0 0
<TheOpenSourcerer> An line for fstab
<paln> do you think I could get SDR ram higher than 512mb
<kvarley> TheOpenSourcerer: Thanks =]
<paln> HazRPG: lol same
<paln> as me
<HazRPG> paln: the bin shortcut?
<HazRPG> oh the mod4+t shortcut ^_^
<HazRPG> yeah its currently irritating me that it opens the bin instead of respecting my keyboard shortcuts :(
<paln> HazRPG: haha yea I used Win+T up to natty when they switched to Unity
<paln> I prefer unity, but that shortcut pissed me off at first
<paln> I've got used to Ctrl-Alt-T since
<HazRPG> ctrl+alt+t does nothing on mine :P
<HazRPG> I think its cos I have it configured to win+t
<paln> HazRPG: hehe I also use Ctrl-Shift-Esc to open gnome-system-monitor
<monsterwizard> computer systems <3
<paln> like task manager in XP and above
<paln> monsterwizard: i guess machines do have feelings
<HazRPG> paln: heh, I never use gnome-system-monitor, I find its too much of a resource hog >_<, so I use htop (much thanks to AlanBell who recommended me it about a year ago :))
<monsterwizard> towards me ?
<paln> they want to stuff you in the trash rather than open a console
<HazRPG> paln: htop is a terminal tool though, but I find its more effective :)
<paln> HazRPG: I only ever use it to kill processes
<paln> that or kill all in the terminal
<paln> * killall
<HazRPG> hehe
<paln> ive really got nothing to do at the moment , so I'm watching iCarly on nickelodeon :P
<HazRPG> heh
<paln> but it's my sisters friends sons birthday today so I'm going to the party and some play area
<paln> he's 3
<paln> and my sisters friend is also my friends cousin
<paln> small world
<popey> gord: did you see HazRPG's question? are the shortcuts used by unity hard-wired? like Win+T for Trash (Rubbish bin!)
<bigcalm> Waste Basket
<bigcalm> Using xubuntu-desktop I get to see all 3 versions!
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/bootcharts/mbp-oneiric-20111222-1.png
<paln> popey: I hate how Ubuntu uses American English
<HazRPG> popey: thanks dude :)
<popey> hmmmmmmm
<popey> paln: where does it use american english?
<paln> but it's trash on the unity launcher and wastebasket in nautilus
<popey> blame GNOME
<popey> I keep trying to get that fixed
<ali1234> it says rubbish bin on mine
<paln> popey: quite often, actually
<popey> its rubbish bin on mine too
<AlanBell> rubbish bin on the unity launcher and rubbish bin in nautilus for me
<paln> popey: yea, I might as well
<paln> but I use unity, so that's really plausible(!)
<popey> so any suggestions for speeding up boot of my laptop ^^^
<ali1234> install gentoo
<paln> popey: get a chrome book and stick Linux on it
<paln> that's all I got
<bigcalm> paln: is everything set to use en_gb?
<HazRPG> I just upgraded to 11.04 yesterday, but I can also confirm it says rubbish bin on both - however! In the "location bar" it shows "trash:///"
<paln> popey: oh you could change the GDP mode of GRUB2 or whatever you're using to 800x600
<paln> bigcalm: yep, I always run through the settings when I install something
<HazRPG> paln: technically a chrome book /is/ has a linux O/S on it
<paln> I have OCD like that :D
<paln> HazRPG: even better, means that it won't be slower at all ! :P
<bigcalm> paln: OCD? Don't start playing minecraft then :P
<paln> * GDP is sposed to be GFX
 * popey removes landscape-client
<paln> bigcalm: I'm not a big fan of FPS games
<popey> hehe
<popey> it's not so much a FPS, as an FPC game
<paln> fpc?
<popey> creation
<paln> ah
<popey> construction
<popey> whatever âº
<popey> not shooter
<BigRedS> First Person CAD
<paln> plus, I only have a wii a pap and a ds lite
<popey> unless you like firing arrows from a bow at skellingtons
<popey> haha
<paln> BigRedS: lol google sketch up for Xbox
<HazRPG> popey: oh, heh... speeding up the boot of your system, get an SSD ;D
<paln> *pap is psp
<paln> I'm beginning to despise autocorrect
<paln> but it's great most of the time
<popey> HazRPG: my desktop with ssd.. http://popey.com/~alan/bootcharts/wopr-precise-20111222-1.png
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> HazRPG: i removed the ssd because i need the space in my laptop
<paln> HazRPG: yea, that's cheap enough(!)
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/bootcharts/mbp-oneiric-20111222-2.png gah, worse
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ahhhh, good morning squire ^_^
<HazRPG> popey: ah!
<HazRPG> paln: I plan to get an SSD for ubuntu :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good morning, long time no speak.
<HazRPG> paln: media (music, etc) will be placed on normal mediums... since you don't really get much benefit from stuff like that
<HazRPG> brobostigon: indeed, indeed!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<paln> irc for iPhone just crashed
<HazRPG> brobostigon: how's things?
<HazRPG> paln: ouch
<paln> stupid overflow of memory
<brobostigon> HazRPG: not bad, could be better, my eczema is having another bad time,and i feel alittle ill, dry throat, headache etc. and you ?
<HazRPG> popey: I just realised, that png you linked, that says your on kernel 3.2... is that what comes with 11.10? (my next upgrade later today)
<paln> brobostigon: I have the sniffles :P
<popey> HazRPG: which png?
<HazRPG> popey: http://popey.com/~alan/bootcharts/wopr-precise-20111222-1.png
<popey> HazRPG: look at the url
<popey> precise âº
<popey> 12.04
<brobostigon> paln: hope you feel better soon.
<paln> brobostigon: just mild sneezing every so often
<HazRPG> popey: oh, heh, yeah... keep forgetting that's what 12.04 is going to be called
<paln> I had worse last week
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ouch dude, hope things ya feel better soon
<paln> Precise Pangolin
<paln> what's a pangolin?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I'm alright, been away for a while because I've been sorting out my move to Egypt
<paln> thy should have called it Pesky Python
<paln> HazRPG: but that'll mean you won't be in the uk anymore!
<HazRPG> s/things//*
<paln> well have to be ban you from this channel
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i hope so aswell. ah, yes, i did see something on the mailing list, you mentionaing it.
<HazRPG> paln: heh, nah... you'd be surprised the number of people on here that aren't actually in the UK :P
 * brobostigon is in his own country, called taylorworld :)
<paln> so anyway, I downloaded Damn Small, does anyone recommend it?
<HazRPG> paln: at the end of the day, I'm still a brit... and I still use the en-gb versions of stuff...
<paln> over Lubuntu, that is
<paln> HazRPG: fair say
<paln> I'm an Indian
<paln> well British citizen
<AlanBell> popey: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/alanlaptop-oneiric-20111220-2.png :(
<HazRPG> paln: there ya go... still a brit at the end of the day :P
<paln> so is my mother, but my dad had moved here
<AlanBell> why is my bootchart so unhappy?
<paln> my mothers parents were Indian though
<paln> AlanBell: boot chart?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: can't remember if I mentioned it on the mailing list, but defo on here
<HazRPG> paln: mine is the other way round, mother is egyptian, dad is english
<popey> AlanBell: you have a lot of crap on that
<popey> AlanBell: snort, webcamstudio, there's something getting compiled there...
<HazRPG> paln: mine is the other way round, mother is egyptian, dad is english
<paln>  irc crashed again when I clicked that link you gave AlanBell
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i hope it goes well, moving is very stressful and pressured, and a total nightmare.
<AlanBell> I did just remove snort
<HazRPG> brobostigon: it is :(
<AlanBell> didn't know I had webcamstudio
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I leave just before new year
<popey> right, thats it, I'm upgrading to 12.04 on my laptop
<AlanBell> removed it now
<paln> popey: what for?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: pretty soon, good luck.
<paln> it may be an lts, but it's still in alpha
<HazRPG> brobostigon: thanks :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<popey> AlanBell: you may find next boot faster as it wont do ureadahead
<popey> paln: because I can
<paln> popey: alrighty then
 * PalN wants to know more IRC commands!
<HazRPG> PalN: depends on your client dude
<PalN> really?
<PalN> I use XChat but ATM I'm using LimeChat for iPhone
<jutnux> IRSSI is for #winners ;-)
<HazRPG> popey: I have a feeling the bin shortcut might actually be hard coded... :(
<PalN> jutnux: then why have I never heard of it :P
<HazRPG> PalN: apt-get install irssi ;D
<brobostigon> PalN: it is a cli/terminal irc client.
<PalN> I could have figured that out, just I've never heard of IRSSI :D
<PalN> ah
<PalN> popey: I've always wondered what ureadahead was as I've seen it pop up during booting jolicloud a few times
<jutnux> PalN: It's a bit of a pain to configure.
<PalN> jutnux: but in essence, what is it?
<bigcalm> There are no short cut key combos in xfce :(
<bigcalm> My super key is less than super
 * paln prefers lowercase nickname
<paln> bigcalm: lol
<paln> what happened to the front key?
<paln> why is it not in use anymore?
<paln> and fourth level too
<paln>  
<paln> bigcalm: and I thought there were key combos in xfce
<bigcalm> There possibly are, but I haven't found them yet
<bigcalm> Or the xubuntu-desktop installation of xfce has stripped them out
<bigcalm> *shrug*
<paln> did you guys hear about the girl who hated Ubuntu?
<paln> it was on the news in 2007 in the us and posted on omg Ubuntu sometime last year
<paln> pretty funny story
<jutnux> PalN: Sorry about the late reply, it's a cli irc client and it's extremely powerful and doesn't use much ram.
<paln> jutnux: I got an answer from  HazRPG earlier ;)
<popey> aquarius: hows your U300 getting on?
<aquarius> it is loveliness
<HazRPG> paln: oh?
<popey> âº
<bigcalm> aquarius: oh, you finally bit the bullet and bought a laptop?
<popey> aquarius: that guy who had issues booting USB sticks was down to the fedora live cd to usb stick script he used âº
<paln> I meant brobostigon
<aquarius> bigcalm, I did indeed
<aquarius> popey, ha!
<popey> my local pcworld doesnt have them in stock â¹
<bigcalm> aquarius: shame, I was enjoying the hardware ranty tweets ;)
<aquarius> popey, denied!
<popey> aquarius: you are obliged to write a blog post with pictures and hardware details about how great it is, just to annoy me
<aquarius> popey, I did that on g+
<aquarius> although no pictures
<AlanBell> is there any confirmation that Ubuntu will run on the ausus transformer prime yet?
<aquarius> I need to do something on the blog as well
<paln> I want google+
<popey> AlanBell: we haven't got one yet
<jutnux> Google+ \o/
<popey> people in the community might have tried
<paln> stupid age restriction
<bigcalm> The minimum age isn't 13?
<popey> I have a transformer, not a prime, but not got ubuntu on it
<paln> transformer prime. reminds me of a big red truck that turns into a robot
<bigcalm> popey: know if you'll get ics on it?
<popey> pass
<popey> transformer is a dumb name for a tablet
<popey> utterly ungoogleable
<paln> bigcalm: no 18, google needs to sort out the legal
<paln> popey: lol :D
<paln> and transformer prime would bring up what I described a minute ago
<paln> otherwise known as...
<bigcalm> Optimus
<paln> Optimus Prime, archenemy of Megatron, scourge of the Universe
<bigcalm> Or Optimus to his friends
<paln> bigcalm: whyd you have to beat me to it?
<paln> bigcalm: yea ok
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> Why? I thought it was a question
<bigcalm> I grew up with the Transformers cartoons
<paln> I needed time to finish my statement
 * popey notes this isnt court
<paln> brb
<jutnux> The latest transformer film was amazinggggg
 * bigcalm feels old now
 * TheOpenSourcerer is old now
<paln> â¢ popey: teehee
<paln> jutnux: I didn't see it
<bigcalm> Aww, the snow flakes have been removed from flicker.com
<jutnux> paln: It was definitely good.
 * daubers considers an extravagant lunch
<paln> jutnux: I'll watch it on zmovie.eu
<bigcalm> Sushi!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] Ubuntu 11.10  Windows lose titlebar - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/12/22/ubuntu-11-10-windows-lose-titlebar/
<paln> ubuntuuk-planet: I don't get what it does
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: happy birthday? :)
<paln> cos your titular becomes the top panel
<paln> an you can't "lose" the top panel
<TheOpenSourcerer> christel: Huh?
<christel> oh, i assumed it was your birthday since you were old now
<christel> haha
<paln> *titular = top panel
<christel> i am so slow!
<TheOpenSourcerer> No - I've been old for ages ;-)
<christel> hehe
<paln> TheOpenSourcerer: that's cos ur ages old
<paln>  :D I made a funny
<TheOpenSourcerer> paln: Don't give up your day job for the stage just yet though
<s-fox> Hello.
<paln> TheOpenSourcerer: lol much appreciated advice
<paln> anyways gotta go now :/
<christel> welcome back...
<s-fox> How are we all?
<jutnux> Happy
<s-fox> Why?
<andylockran> yay!
<jutnux> Because I have the house to myself
<BigRedS> Anyone got any recomendations of a book on PHP's internals?
<BigRedS> I've no desire to write PHP, but several of the servers I run do, and it'd help if I understood better what it is that I'm configuring
<Seeker`> you run servers that have a desire to write PHP?! :P
<Seeker`> (Sorry, no idea about PHP internals myself)
<BigRedS> haha
<smittix> Afternoon
<smittix> Stocktake time of year :/
<kvarley> Does anybody know of an application that would let me have window snapping when using OpenBox?
<Seeker`> wow, I'm doing the wrong job
<Seeker`> Tube drivers are striking because they don't get 3x pay + an extra day off if they work bank holidays
<popey> common in public sector apparently
<KrimZon> what's the command for gnome 2's screen resolution dialog?
<Seeker`> and 43 days holiday too. Wow.
<popey> gnome-control-panel
<popey> gnome-control-center rather
<popey> or something âº
<KrimZon> ahh
<KrimZon> I ran morrowind in wine and it broke my graphics card somehow
<KrimZon> x complains on startup about something or other, then the nvidia control panel says it's not using the nvidia driver
<Azelphur> I was up till like 3am last night decoding someones storage method on a plugin, they've stored 137 (~1.3KB) of individual data values inside a single column in an SQL database
 * Azelphur cries
<BigRedS> haha
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/CTPSfqaS this, all in a single column.
<KrimZon_2> it brokened :(
 * daubers has gained a couple of nerf related injuries
<MooDoo> *snigger*
<daubers> managed to graze my elbows when I dove behind the sofa to avoid the barrage from my boss
<daubers> It's a humongously productive day in the office today.........
<Azelphur> daubers: have you seen carpet skates?
<daubers> Azelphur: No......
<Azelphur> daubers: they are awesome :o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHOzX1w3zZo
<Azelphur> I WANTS THEM.
<HazRPG> hurray \o/
<HazRPG> I'm 11.10 now
<brobostigon> HazRPG: since the summer, i have been on debian sid+experimental.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah cool
<brobostigon> HazRPG: so i get to see everything early.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I'm only upgrading because I've been having issues with my sound... an update broke it, and I can't figure out how to fix it anymore :/
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, i see.
<HazRPG> I even reverted to previous versions of things to try and get things running again, with no joy :( so upgraded to see what happens (cos apparently 10.10 had lots of sound issues?)
<brobostigon> hmmm.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I found out that jackd2 was on for some reason too
<HazRPG> so I've since removed that
<brobostigon> ok.
<HazRPG> (only found out during upgrade, so I must have installed something that required it at one point - thus causing the issues)
<brobostigon> maybe, yes.
<HazRPG> however, in 10.10, 11.04... I could get sound working by simply doing "killall pulseaudio" then "sudo alsa force-reload"
<HazRPG> now... I can't get audio to work at all in 11.10 :/
<HazRPG> slightly frustrated
<brobostigon> HazRPG: so your sound devices dont show anywhere?
<HazRPG> been messing around with this for about a week
<HazRPG> brobostigon: no, sound devices show up in several places... pulseaudio just seems to refuse connections (almost as if it doesn't have control over the audio at all)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: what happened if you played firectly to alsa, and not pulseaudio?
<HazRPG> again, me thinking it jackd2 was taking control over it... but seems something else must be... but I have no way of figuring out what
<HazRPG> brobostigon: sound works
<HazRPG> brobostigon: although I can't get it to force alsa anymore in 11.10 :(
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, that explains it then.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: think you could help me figure this out?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: if i can, yes.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: thanks :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i hope i can help.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: don't know where to start
<daubers> evening
<brobostigon> HazRPG: best place to start is with least in the equation, so simplest possible.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: well I just tried "ubuntu-bug audio" and so far its doing nothing...
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ubuntu-bug is that autmated tool to file things to launchpad isnt it, if memory serves?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yup
<brobostigon> HazRPG: you mentioned you could playback dirctly to alsa but not via pulseaudio to alsa, yes?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ever site I've seen mentions if your having trouble with audio then you should run that command first because it attempts to see what's going wrong first and possible fixes... otherwise it just asks if you want to file a bug instead
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I could... not anymore, not since the upgrade to 11.10
<HazRPG> or at least I haven't figure out how to do it
<brobostigon> HazRPG: even if you kill pulseaudio?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i believe they changes control from init.d to a prog called service/s, to control that stuff, that might be worth looking at.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh, upstart?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: not sure.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: also, i wonder where pulseaudio logs to, to see what it is doing.
<directhex> moo.
<brobostigon> baa
<directhex> pulse doesn't log by default, you need to enable it in a conf file iirc
<brobostigon> thank you directhex
<HazRPG> directhex: ah, thanks for the info
<HazRPG> hmm, "killall pulseaudio" now gives "pulseaudio(2109): Operation not permitted"
<HazRPG> 3 times total
<HazRPG> with 2109, 2113, 2114 (I'm guessing these are the process id's)
<zleap> what does killall -9 pulseaudio do ?
<zleap> thast should kill all processes with that name
<HazRPG> same result
<zleap> what if you put sudo first
<zleap> so you do it as root
<HazRPG> zleap: hmm... returns nothing, so I'm guessing that was successful
<zleap> ok
<zleap> you should be able to check with top
<HazRPG> zleap: ah I always forget about that
<zleap> np
<HazRPG> zleap: apparently not... "lighttdm" still has it running
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> ok we need a bit more help here then
<HazRPG> zleap: oh... thanks for the help though
<brobostigon> brb
<HazRPG> ah, I think I've killed it
<HazRPG> and sudo alsa force-reload, I have sound running through alsa now
<HazRPG> (or at least on chrome so far)
<zleap> ok
<HazRPG> brobostigon: no worries
<zleap> how are you going to stop pulseaudio starting upagain if you reboot ?
<gordonjcp> zleap: sudo rm /usr/bin/pulseaudio works for me
<HazRPG> ideally, I would like pulseaudio to work... so that I can manage the volumes of my applications...
<zleap> ok
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: heh, guessing you don't use pulse
<gordonjcp> HazRPG: not if I can avoid it
<gordonjcp> annoyingly though it means I don't have a volume control in Ubuntu
<gordonjcp> pulse breaks my audio
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: yeah ya do!
<gordonjcp> well, alsamixer
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: hit up ... heh yeah that
<gordonjcp> it's annoying that the whole audio system in Ubuntu is completely tied to pulse
<gordonjcp> I don't even see what the point of pulseaudio is
 * brobostigon returns with a packet of crisps and beer topup.
<brobostigon> yay, new big bang theory, e4, :)
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: it was originally it was created because of issues in alsa when several applications are tring to play sound at the same time iirc
<gordonjcp> <shrug>
<gordonjcp> only one app should play audio at a time
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: how about, normal system sounds, and then playing music or a dvd. both should work at the same time.
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: system notifications while listening to music is the best I can think of, whereby several applications are playing sound at the same time
<gordonjcp> brobostigon: I never use system sounds
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: ok, doesnt matter, just using that as an example.
<gordonjcp> I always delete them and set /usr/share/sounds immutable
<HazRPG> heh
<gordonjcp> any app that is not expressly supposed to play back audio making any sort of noise is an unacceptable defect
<AlanBell> when I was copying a bunch of CDs into banshee a few weeks ago I was listening to two things at once, it was quite good
<HazRPG> AlanBell: oh?
<AlanBell> I don't normally listen to music and stuff, but I wanted to try and do so because it seems like listening to music is something Ubuntu is a bit optimised for
<AlanBell> so I dug out a heap of old CDs and put them in on a couple of computers in my office, and played them back as they were going in
<gordonjcp> it's no good for actually making music though
<HazRPG> ah
<gordonjcp> it's impossible to use any audio apps
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: ubuntu studio?
<AlanBell> kind of made more sense to me to listen to songs two or three at a time, they are too slow and repetitive otherwise, but I wanted to turn the instruments down a bit
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: it uses jackd instead of pulse or alsa
<gordonjcp> HazRPG: shite, obsolete and hideous theme
<gordonjcp> also the maintainer is an arse
<AlanBell> then I figured I probably hadn't quite got the hang of listening to music properly yet so gave up. I will try again at some point
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: agreed, however still proves that you can use ubuntu for music making
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: I know several people that do
<HazRPG> everyone's needs are going to be different though, obviously
<HazRPG> AlanBell: heh, mix-master alan on teh ... computays
 * AlanBell sits in silence and is quite happy with that
<HazRPG> I'm sure everyone here can appreciate the music stylings of this man here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXqPYte8tvc
<HazRPG> right, going to the shop... I guess fixing my audio will have to wait until I go to Egypt now (computer is being shipped away tomorrow morning)
<HazRPG> ... I shall return, with boxes! (and while I'm there... crisps or something)
<HazRPG> doh... only had one
<HazRPG> guess I'm just going to have to use all the small ones I have
<HazRPG> I think I may have cracked the reason pulse is being funny... but we'll soon find out after a restart
<brobostigon> :)
 * AlanBell does a tour of the FIXME (gord) lines in unity
<HazRPG> hmm, well that didn't work either
<brobostigon> :(
<HazRPG> thought it might have been because my user was in the "pulse" group
<HazRPG> and was also in the "audio" group
<HazRPG> according to the wiki it should only be in the "pulse-access" and "pulse-rt" groups
<swat_> evening
<HazRPG> swat_: evening dude
<swat_> anyone running pangolin?
<AlanBell> swat_: yup, it is fab
 * paln is back on IRC
<paln> woohoo! :P
<swat_> AlanBell: i'm contemplating upgrading my 11.10 to it
<jacobw> welcome back
<paln> jacobw: thanks ;)
<paln> soo, what's being said round here?
<swat_> AlanBell: obviously, aware of the dangers - but the reports i'm getting would appear to out weigh the risk
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> if you don't mind an update at some point meaning you lose your boot sector or X doesn't start or networking is broken (quite possible, has happened before in developent releases)
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: any really noticeable differences between pangolin and ocelot?
<AlanBell> so if you are cool with that possibility (and they are trying not to do that) then go for it
<gordonjcp> apart from the explodeyness
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: is is less explodey on a day to day basis
<AlanBell> I am struggling to name a killer new feature to be honest
<swat_> AlanBell: 11.10 just runs like a dog on my netbook - can't put a finger on why
<AlanBell> apart from de-bansheefication
<paln> swat_: whaddya mean by that?
<swat_> paln: previously, i've always found ubuntu nice and snappy on it - something in 11.10 just seems 'wrong'
<paln> AlanBell: are they removing Banshee from pangolin?
<Laney> no
<paln> swat_: hmph, i've never noticed any sluggishness on my laptop
<paln> maybe it's your hardware
<AlanBell> paln: banshee remains in pangolin, just possibly not on the CD
<paln> Laney: phew -- i always liked Banshee
<swat_> paln: hmmm, i guess - it just seems overly laggy - hard to explain
<Laney> it continues undeterred
<paln> AlanBell: sure, you can install it from the repos, but it's nice to know Ubuntu prefer it over whatever else is out there :D
<paln> RhythmBox was fine, but Banshee just seems to have that extra something
<AlanBell> that extra 30 seconds startup time
<jacobw> in my experience banshee has been buggy and slow since version 0.12
<Laney> oh, look, trolling begins
 * Laney steps away
<zleap> i have updated the dclug page on my local commuity website and tried to push this ubuntu group for people too http://www.torcom.org.uk/groups/devon-and-cornwall-gnu-linux-user-group
<AlanBell> banshee has improved over time like all things
<paln> jacobw: really? looks like its been getting better from what i can see :P
<paln> AlanBell: not like ALL things
<paln> life gets worse day by day :D
<AlanBell> just the file associations of audio files with banshee is frustrating, I just want ogg files to play in the simplist player possible
<paln> and satellite TV
<paln> namely Sky
<paln> AlanBell: i play oggs in Google Chrome
<AlanBell> and they did fix the problem with banshee consuming 100% of all processor cores, which was caused by gconf or something
<paln> who the heck managed to make it use everything from your processors?
<paln> that's just bad engineering
<AlanBell> just a bug
<zleap> ohj andi have included april 26 as the release date for 12.04 as an event
<AlanBell> but it happened quite a lot when oneiric was released, so I would click on a downloaded podcast ogg file or something, it would take 40 seconds or so to load banshee, then lock up all cores of the processor, then the ACPI stuff would throw the computer into immediate thermal shutdown
<AlanBell> so, just a bug, and it got fixed after a while, but I kind of went off banshee
<jutnux> AlanBell, popey, whoever else: Nice job on the final Ubuntu-UK podcast of this year :-D
<paln> AlanBell: regarding the ram and cd, i should be emailing you later
<AlanBell> wasn't me, popey tonytiger lauracowen and Marxjohnson get all the credit for that
<zleap> wb paln
<jutnux> Sorry for the false Sorry AlanBell haha
<paln> you guys do podcasts?
<jutnux> Good god why did it paste that.
<jutnux> paln: podcast.ubuntu-uk.org
<AlanBell> !podcase
<AlanBell> !podcast
<lubotu3> Grab the lastest Ubuntu UK Podcast from http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org
 * paln never knew Alan Bell did podcasts
<AlanBell> I don't!
<HazRPG> xD
<jutnux> He doesn't, I thought he did haha
<AlanBell> I am thinking of doing one next year
<HazRPG> AlanBell: \o/
<jutnux> I have them running in the background pretty much all the time.
<paln> AlanBell: oh right, didnt realise the message above
<paln> :D
<HazRPG> hmm, for some reason I can't do "Mod4+L" for lock screen anymore :(
<paln> HazRPG: check your keyboard shortcuts
<zleap> what do i put in to banshee to download podcasts
<HazRPG> paln: I did
<paln> HazRPG: then i have nothing useful for you
<HazRPG> paln: I'm there... it shows clearly that I've assigned lock screen to "Mod4+L" but it doesn't do anything :(
<HazRPG> paln: wouldn't worry, thanks though
<paln> !podcast
<lubotu3> Grab the lastest Ubuntu UK Podcast from http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org
<AlanBell> zleap: a subscribe link, generally an RSS feed
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i had it auto download before into banshee
 * zleap is listening to the latest one now
<zleap> and have subscribed to live bookmarks
<paln> zleap: also listening now
<swat_> AlanBell: upgrade in progress :-)
<paln> AlanBell: IS there an RSS feed for the podcasts? I cant seem to find one
<exobuzz> has there been a time in the last weeks when there hasnt been a massive queue on launchpad ppas :( 2 days build queue currently for i386. ouch.
<zleap> ok got it
<AlanBell> paln: loads of subscribe buttons on the left http://feeds.feedburner.com/UbuntuUkPodcastOgg-high?format=xml that is one of them
<zleap> paln, http://www.getmiro.com/give/?a=m is this helpful,  you can subscribe to the podcast andothers fromthere
<paln> AlanBell: so the link itself is the RSS feed? cos i dont see a subscribe button for pages
<zleap> i think your bookmarks are auto updated when a new podcast is available
<paln> theyre on the left, found them :D
<paln> i meant right
<paln> they're on the right :S
<exobuzz> aah i misread. builders are ok
<paln> i've noticed...why does Ubuntu try so hard to look similar to a mac?
<zleap> not sure
<zleap> mac osx does look nice
<swat_> paln: is it really that similar?
<paln> swat_: quite
<zleap> with docky yes
<zleap> the menus or the way they appear on the top bar depending on app is very mac like
<paln> zleap: i installed cairo-dock (now glx-dock) a week ago
<zleap> ah
<paln> for reasons i can't remember
<paln> zleap: but thats not why its similar
<paln> the actual default interface
<paln> THAT'S what kinda creeps me out
<paln> that it's so similar to OS X
<swat_> paln: the default unity desktop isn't that similar though
<paln> swat_: to me it is
<paln> oh, well, just my opinion
<zleap> i guess things can look similar without upsetting apple too much
<swat_> paln: i can see your point, but i think compared to most other 'desktops' it's not so similar in a copycat way
<swat_> just in a... this is the current desktop trend way
<paln> tries to be innovative, but everything is similar to something
<paln> the only completely revolutionary desktop i've ever known would be twm
<paln> Origianlly Tom's Windows Manager
<zleap> i guess there are only a limited number of ways to do stuff,  you still use windows, icons,  mouse and pointers hence its a WIMP environment  but the way you do it has to be familar to people to so its easy to use
<paln> is there any way to change the default program for specific file types in Ubuntu?
<paln> im using 11.10
<paln> specifcally, i want .deb files to open in gdebi-gtk rather than the software center
<zleap> i think you can right click on something, to open click other,  chooose what you want thereis a tick box to remember what you have selected (11.04)
 * popey wonders why the screen doesnt update on his machine properly anymore
 * popey blames nvidia without knowing who is the right person to blame
<jacobw> paln: dpkg -i foo.deb
<HazRPG> interesting
<paln> zleap: tried that earlier -- the checkbox was removed in ocelot :(
<paln> which is why i ask
<HazRPG> the error message for "disk x is running low on space" it says something like "please check your wastebasket" instead of "rubbish bin"
 * popey tickles tsimpson in the packets
<zleap>  ubuntu podcast doing a version of scrooge
<paln> zleap: yep, listeningg right now
<paln> pretty funny
<paln> OPEN SOURCE?!?!
<paln> zleap: guess the guy with the 50mb hdd is Linus Torvalds
<zleap> yeah
<paln> cleverly avoiding the fact that Mark Shuttleworth is yet another successful open-source code contributor
<paln> boy, that's a mouthful
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> your about 3 mins behind me i think on the podcast
<paln> scrooge in a wheelie bin
<paln> "im not in a wheelie bin!"
<jutnux> Hahhahaha
<paln> jutnux: the voices are funnier
<paln> i send them a christmas turkey...and some leeks...and some cheese!
<paln> "Is you on drugs?"
<paln> i should listen to these more often
<jutnux> They're brilliant.
 * paln is laughing his arse off
<paln> jutnux: too right
<paln> and the weird Chaplin-themed music
<jutnux> http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/22/cheezburgers-ben-huh-if-godaddy-supports-sopa-were-taking-our-1000-domains-elsewhere/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
<jutnux> Eat that, SOPA.
<paln> so the SOPA act is dead? Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
<paln> ...ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
<jutnux> Not yet.
<paln> ...ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
<paln> ...ray?
<paln> Wait, what?
<paln> oh...
<paln> i'll have to read
<zleap> is it
<paln> Ben Huh
<paln> pronounced hoo or ha?
<paln> seriously though, im not too sure :/
<jutnux> I think it's hoo
<brobostigon> ben hur*
<paln> i assumed that too
<paln> if it was ha, i can imagine something like this happening...:
<zleap> no the article was about moving from @godaddy unless they drop their support for SOPA
<paln> "Do you know Ben Huh?"
<paln> -"Ben who?"
<zleap> thing are there enough people who understand this enough to be able to do that
<paln> -"Ben Huh!"
<paln> -"Huh?"
<smittix> Howdy all
<paln> -"Ben Huh..."
<jutnux> \o smittix
<zleap> paln, it was a film before our time I think
<paln> -"Who?"
<smittix> Can anyone reccommend me a online backup solution? pref hosted in the uk
<paln> -"Ben...oh, forget it"
<paln> zleap, what was?
<zleap> Ben Hur was a title of a film
<paln> zleap: oh right
<paln> smittix: online?
<zleap> > ben hur*
<zleap> quote from brobostigon
<paln> hmmm... DÃ©ja DÃ¹p along with Ubuntu One works nicely
<smittix> paln: Yeah.
<paln> smittix: why do you want it hosted locally?
<smittix> Was looking at things like carbonite.
<zleap> paln,  how many young people do you know that use Linux / ubuntu ?
<paln> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben-Hur:_A_Tale_of_the_Christ
<paln> it's a novel, that had...
<smittix> I suppose I could host it abroad.
<paln> ...four, four films based on it
<jutnux> I'm young and I use Linux, yay.
<mgdm> smittix: rsync.net?
<paln> and there was a miniseries and play, along with a museum dedicated to it
<paln> All for a book called Ben-Hur
<paln> jutnux: same! how old are you?
<zleap> AlanBell, ref podcast the new open document foundation seems to be called http://www.oasis-open.org/
<jutnux> paln: 15, you?
<paln> 14
<jutnux> Sahweet.
<paln> zleap: i am behind you on the podcast
<zleap> yeah
<paln> "we'll have a foundation foundation foundation podcast"
<jutnux> Listened to it already heheheh
<paln> and there's that cheesy music again
<jutnux> I love that music hhahhahaaha.
<paln> jutnux: /me always giggles when the music arrives
<paln> FAIL
<jutnux> You fool.
<jutnux> Do you run Ubuntu then paln?
<paln> yep, 11.10 atm
<paln> started using Linux in June 2010
<jutnux> Sweet.
<paln> with 10.04 LTS
<jutnux> I started using it properly around that time too
<paln> was just getting into what Linux was
<jutnux> Been using arch lately.
<paln> i had heard of it here and there, and so decided to try it out
 * smittix feels old. Started using Ubuntu in 2004.
<paln> Google'd "linux download" and the top result was, of course...
<zleap> hopefully more young people will do the same
<jutnux> zleap: Not going to happen. Have you seen IT in schools?
<paln> jutnux: we discussed this last night
<jutnux> I'm a web dev and programmer and IT is an abomination.
<paln> haha :D
<jutnux> Let's discuss it again
<jutnux> At the minute
<jutnux> I am making (in class) an e-brochure
<jutnux> In powerpoint.
<zleap> i think if people want to use it they will,  don't reply on schools
<paln> fair enough, but look at the chat logs for 21/12/2011
<jutnux> zleap: Not just that, but everything is terrible.
<paln> zleap: you mean rely?
<paln> just to clarify
<zleap> yes
<zleap> sorry
<jutnux> I doubt I'll ever go back to Ubuntu after Arch.
<zleap> i remember a few years ago, helping in a school, the year 6 students were just copy / pasting in to word
<jutnux> But both are awesome either way.
<paln> zleap: i love that
<zleap> rather then say printing out, going through, making notes and then writing stuff up in their own words
<paln> do you guys know Freddie Wong?
<jutnux> YES
<paln> freddiew on youTube
<zleap> no
<paln> jutnux: woohoo
<jutnux> His videos are amazinggggg
<paln> zleap: he's an awesome Special effects dude
 * paln eagerly awaits VGHS
<zleap> cool
<paln> http://www.youtube.com/freddiew
<paln> ^^^ there ya go
<zleap> thanks
<jutnux> paln: have you ever tried arch?
<zleap> will look later as it has sound and am listing to podcast
<zleap> i think in schools it will be young people talking to friends about it,  and getting them interested that way,
<jutnux> zleap: My friends barely know how to use Windows
<paln> anyway, on his behind the scenes channel, the guy with the glasses (i can NEVER remember his name) states that in "third grade" ICT he had to write a piece of text three times out...thinking there must be an easier way, he searched the documentation and found copy-paste
<paln> jutnux: yea, twice
<jutnux> Do you not like it?
<paln> zleap: that's how i got my mates in primary school engaged in IT
<paln> i remember trying to "hack" the school network via the command prompt
<jutnux> paln: been there done that
<jutnux> got banned for 2 weeks
<zleap> same thing happened in the 80';s really those of us who wanted to wrote programs in basic
<paln> seeing as most people just assume a black screen with text to be a form of hacking
<zleap> wrote = write
<paln> i just opened 'cmd' and they all gasped :D
<paln> moments like that are absolutely hilarious
<zleap> well hacking in the true sense of programming is OK
<paln> jutnux: i didnt actually do any hacking
<jutnux> paln: I got my first computer when I was 4 \o/
<zleap> i did IBT 2 years ago, was bored so sent my tutor a message via netware
<paln> jutnux: my first computer is the laptop im using now
<paln> but ive been using a computer since 3
<paln> playing Rayman 2 for hours on end
<paln> one of my favourite past-times
<paln> and when i hit 6, Rayman 3
<paln> lol :D
<jutnux> RAYMAN <3
<directhex> i only played rayman 1, tbh
<jutnux> The new one is absolutely terrible.
<paln> jutnux: i'm getting Rayman Origins soon
<directhex> FROM THE ERA OF GREAT FRENCHNESS
<paln> (yes!)
<paln> the only decent Rayman game there has been for 7 years
<jutnux> When you smacked them little monster things off of the rocks
<paln> jutnux: huh?
<jutnux> When Rayman like wound up his punch
<jutnux> ?
<jutnux> no??
<directhex> FACT FOR THE DAY! the creator of rayman was knighted
<jutnux> He deserves it
<paln> Michel Ancel was knighted!?!?!?!
<paln> cool
<directhex> paln: yeah. order of arts & literature
<paln> never knew that
<jutnux> What do you plan on doing at college paln?
<paln> jutnux: not college
<HazRPG> urgh this sound issue is really frustrating me
<paln> going to 6th form, then Uni hopefully
<jutnux> sixth form, whatever.
<jutnux> I'm torn between going to Uni, or not.
<zleap> i think if you can find the time to really contribute to Ubuntu and get a really good karma on launch pad with respect from others ,  that could be worth a lot one day
<paln> HazRPG; what issue exactly?
<paln> have you guys heard of Bilal Akhtar?
<jutnux> Yes
<directhex> paln: in 2006 three game developers were knighted by the french govt
<HazRPG> paln: pulseaudio seems to refuse to play sounds
<jutnux> Follow him on Twitter and on his blog.
<paln> I kinda think I want to take after him
<jutnux> 15 year old packager, right?
<paln> jutnux: i thinl
<HazRPG> paln: and alsa is a "hit and miss" as to whether it will work or not
<paln> *think
<zleap> nice
<paln> HazRPG: never use pulse
<jutnux> I'm going to work at canonical one day.;
<jutnux> Fact.
<paln> it will save you time
<directhex> paln: michel ancel (rayman), frederick raynal (little big adventure), and shigeru miyamoto (er... no idea, never heard of this one)
<HazRPG> paln: pulse is kinda an integral part of ubuntu, most of it is built around it
<paln> directhex: haha very funny(!) *slow dull applause*
<paln> Mario you dumpkopf
<zleap> jutnux, well hang around here enough and really help people and people will know you,  a good Plus with job hunting
<zleap> at least then people know you can do the job
<directhex> i am possibly being facetious. http://apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/miscellaneous-junk/zelda3.jpg
 * paln is wailing, due to the Ubuntu UK podcast having ended. :/
<AlanBell> a signed cartridge, nice!
<paln> whoa
<AlanBell> paln: you have years of back episodes to catch up on :)
<paln> AlanBell: Oh yeah...
 * paln is happy once again
<directhex> AlanBell: i had to camp out in front of HMV overnight to score that
<jutnux> paln: I'm going to listen to episode 1 tonight :-)
<swat_> AlanBell: i see from popey's google+ you use unity 3d on an atom 330 - same as me!
<paln> dircethex: lol :D
<swat_> AlanBell: i'm hoping precise will see performance improvements on this
<paln> i was reconsidering whether it was yours or not for a second
<paln> this being the internet
<jutnux> You know
<jutnux> in 40 years
<directhex> S03E12 is the best episode of UUPC. i wouldn't bother with the rest tbh
<paln> i still own a working SNEs
<paln> *SNES
<jutnux> the bigges tproblem is going to be finding a unique username
<popey> haha directhex
<AlanBell> swat_: working fine on precise now
<paln> directhex: will check that out
<directhex> paln: my NES is hooked up to my 40" HDTV. got it in 1989 \o/
<paln> NES or SNES?
<directhex> paln: NES. the SNES wasn't until, like, 1994 or something
<directhex> well, when we got one
<paln> my sister got a SNES in 1998
<jutnux> I wish I had all of these retro consoles.
<zleap> i have a sinclair spectrum 48k+
<swat_> i found a brand new sega megadrive in my dad's garage
<zleap> we did have a sega megadrive at the after school clubi work at,  i think it got thrown away along with loads of games
<jutnux> Best thing about Sega was the startup tune
<jutnux> SEEEEEEEGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
<zleap> yeah some of the old games were really good, fun and playable
<directhex> jutnux: almost every game had a different sega jingle. everyone remembers the sonic 1 one though
<jutnux> Sonic \o/
<jutnux> I spent literally all of my time on that
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8aIge9H5OQ
<zleap> i used to play chaos : battle of wizards for hours on the spectrum
<jutnux> I used to play games but then I took an arrow through the knee.
<jutnux> But in all seriousness, I rarely play games now.
<jutnux> IS anyone going to get a Raspberry PI?
<jacobw> almost certainly
<directhex> not much point. i already have an ARM box, and it can actually run ubuntu
<zleap> jutnux, yeah hopefully
<jutnux> I'm going to get one just ot mess around with it
<directhex> my spare time goes on videogames. no time to mess around with tech
<AlanBell> I might get one, even though it won't run Ubuntu
<zleap> fedora i think
<zleap> AlanBell,  could make a interesting podcast article
<Nafallo> hmm. I haz question.
<jutnux> Shoot.
<AlanBell> we haz answers
<Nafallo> have anyone that has recently ran around in stores seen any Lenovo x121es in he wild? if so, where? :-)
<AlanBell> 42 <- there is one
<Nafallo> s/he/the/
<HazRPG> I iz a haz!
<paln> What happened to Wii Remote interfaces being implemented into Kernel 3-point-something
<HazRPG> paln: I suspect a spanner in the works... I'm sure it'll get added at some point... maybe...
<AlanBell> !info wminput
<lubotu3> wminput (source: cwiid): Userspace driver for the wiimote. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.6.00+svn201-2ubuntu2 (natty), package size 39 kB, installed size 276 kB
<jutnux> Why would you use a Wii remote
<AlanBell> wiimote works fine already, did for ages
<AlanBell> jutnux: you can make an interactive whiteboard with one if you have an IR pen and projector (which I have)
<HazRPG> what do wiimotes use for their frequencies? Is it literally just bluetooth? Or other?
<AlanBell> bluetooth
<jutnux> AlanBell: I saw that video on YouTube.
<directhex> far more useful than for playing games. bloody wii
<paln> i've used wminput in the psat
<paln> *past
<paln> but it's a bit fiddly
<paln> really cool once you set it up though
<paln> but having drivers in the kernel would be awesome
<paln> such less hassle!
<AlanBell> why would you care if they are kernel drivers?
<jutnux> I really want a job :-(
<HazRPG> jutnux: you and me both
<paln> AlanBell: i still a usually off-on switch to make one
<paln> *still nedd
<paln> *still need
<HazRPG> paln: I keep saying that about ps3 controllers... but heh, it won't happen, so I'll stick with QtSixad
<paln> HazRPG: i know PS3 controllers work with Windows over USB, but Linux?
<paln> never raelised
<paln> *realised
<HazRPG> paln: not sure about over USB... I meant using it via bluetooth
<jutnux> Linux replaced Windows nearly 2 years ago for me I think haha.
<paln> ah...that would be easier
<paln> but yeah, you can use them over USB in Windows
<paln> i tried it in Vista, worked absolutely fine
<HazRPG> paln: yeah I know, but who uses that xD
<Nafallo> Linux replaced Windows for me... ehrm... 10 years ago?
<paln> you just have to download the open-source drivers
<paln> nafallo:
<paln> Nafallo: completely?
<jutnux> Nafallo: orly
<paln> i cant' imagine completely giving up Windows
<HazRPG> Nafallo: *internet-high-five*
<Nafallo> paln: yeah. haven't ran it since then :-)
 * jutnux shoots paln
<Nafallo> :-)
<HazRPG> paln: bah, you need to remove the ties my friend :P
 * paln falls to the floor, only to be raised by Bill Gates
<paln> jk, jk
<Nafallo> unless you count work/military duty, but I don't.
<Nafallo> personal computers.
 * hamitron switched at kernel 2.4.18, if that means anything
<zleap> paln, apart from games and at the moment printing, i hardly use windows
<jutnux> Do y'all prefer GUI text editors or Command line ones like Vim?
<paln> the only reason i use Windows is for programs that don't work in wine
<HazRPG> hamitron: means a heck of a long time ago :P
<paln> mianly iTunes
<jutnux> paln: Use a Virtual Box then
<paln> *mainly
<paln> jutnux: been there, done that
<Nafallo> jutnux: my GUI one is gvim, and that's because pentadactyl uses it ;-)
<HazRPG> zleap: CUP + SAMBA \o/
<HazRPG> CUPS*
<hamitron> HazRPG, not old enough for that ;)
<jutnux> Nafallo: Vim \o/
<zleap> yeah i need to sort it out,   maybe help package it properly
<paln> jutnux: i use nano on the command line, gedit Gui-wise
<paln> but i dont mind
<zleap> right now there is no filter for my printer, i am guessing its in the wrong place on my system
<jutnux> paln: Try Vim, it's amazing.
<paln> i prefer to use gedit for code due to the highlighting
<HazRPG> hamitron: true, but 2.4 is still a good few years ago
<paln> say, does anyone know of a Notepad++ for Linux?
<zleap> kernel 2.4 is still used in some places
<jutnux> paln: GMate, Scribes
<paln> at least, something with most of the functionality,
<jutnux> Gmate = gedit with gmate plugins
<jacobw> paln: emacs
<hamitron> sadly, I am more likely to move to windows again atm :/
<jutnux> emacs booooo
<HazRPG> paln: errr... gedit ^_^
<paln> the main feature I'm missing is collapsable code blocks
<jacobw> paln: vim
<jutnux> Emacs is a good OS but lacks a decent editor :-)
<zleap> lol
<paln> i like that feature
<HazRPG> zleap: yeah I know, but 2.4 was released in 04 (ish?)
<paln> HazRPG: haha i'd have never thought of that :D
<HazRPG> paln: I use aptana for coding (aka eclipse)
<jutnux> I hate big IDEs :-(
<zleap> i use bluefish but that is for my website
<paln> jutnux: why would you bother with an IDE?
<paln> very simplistic setup
<paln> nano and gcc
<paln> :D
<HazRPG> just because it integrates a shell nicely, along with ftp/sftp stuff
<paln> HazRPG: fair play, but I prefer simplicity in nature than appearance
<jacobw> i said emacs because its more like notepad++ in that can present a GUI with extensive menus
<jutnux> paln: Vim \o/
<zleap> its about the best tool for the job,  so you can use which ever fits your needs i guess
<paln> It's..."The Arch Way"
<hamitron> paln, gmake is nice though :/
<HazRPG> paln: who said aptana or eclipse was nice looking xD
<Nafallo> heh. I used vim and bzr for my current website. think I might use my sister for my next one ;-)
<HazRPG> paln: its just useful
<Nafallo> . o O ( but she doesn't know that yet )
<hamitron> Nafallo, we don't talk about x-rated stuff here ;)
<HazRPG> xD
<Nafallo> hamitron: she works as a web designer :-)
<hamitron> sorry, I just couldn't resist :/
<zleap> lol
<HazRPG> Nafallo: *double-high-fives*
<Nafallo> her company do stuff for Nike amongst others :-)
<hamitron> nice
<hamitron> :)
 * paln is laughing hysterically at the previous 10 lines
 * jutnux is too
<jacobw> i used vim for my last web something project, i'll try using bzr for my next web something
<Nafallo> srsly. my website is NOT nafallo.xxx
<jacobw> s/something/design?
<paln> So, i'ma go now
<jutnux> I thought bzr was a vcs?
<paln> for about half an hour
<HazRPG> lulz for anyone who tried to hit that
<zleap> ok
<Nafallo> (because it's too bloody expensive, but yeah... that's not why.)
<paln> to try out Damn Small Linux ;)
<paln> see ya!
<jutnux> Bye \o
<zleap> ah thats good btw paln
<Nafallo> jutnux: it is.
<zleap> cya
<HazRPG> later
<jutnux> I like Mercurial :-)
<zleap> i am gonna head off for a while too, play with some windows stuff
<jutnux> Might start using bzr as it's on launchpad.
<HazRPG> jutnux: bzr ~ git ~ mercurial, etc
<zleap> i think you need bzr to upload stuff right
<paln> zleap: what's that sposed to mean?
<paln> good im trying out dsl, or good im leaving for a while?
<zleap> dsl is good
<zleap> sorry
<paln> lol :D
<jutnux> Good you're leaving ;-)
<paln> its' aight
<Nafallo> hmm
 * paln throws his fist at jutnux 
 * zleap hides
<Nafallo> my small linux of choice was LEKA back in the day :-)
 * paln finally leaves, saying "I'll Bee Baak"
<Nafallo> or maybe it's actually leka
<HazRPG> I just had a vision of your fist physically leaving your hand with fire blazing out of it as it flies in the air
<HazRPG> ah, he's gone
<HazRPG> nvm
<jutnux> I'll probably go back to Xchat.
<HazRPG> I'm going to continue (technically start) packing
 * zleap is using xchat
<zleap> wb that was quick
<HazRPG> shippers are coming in the morning to pick them up... o.O
<Nafallo> that was quick
<Nafallo> snap!
<zleap> yeag
<zleap> yeah
<paln> proves how fast Damn Small is :D
<HazRPG> heh
<jutnux> Or how terrible it is
<paln> nah I'm on my iPhone now
<Nafallo> woha!
<jutnux> Apple (n)
<paln> jutnux: hehe too true (!)
<HazRPG> paln: I knew you were going to say that ^_^
<Nafallo> you put DSL on your iPhone?
<zleap> you could run it in virtual box,  that way you don't need to leave :)
<paln> jutnux: dw, I'm not a fanboy
<swat_> i might be getting an iphone next
<paln> well, not tht much
<swat_> though i do like my blackberry
<jutnux> Android (y)
<paln> swat_: +1 to you sir, +1 to you
<paln> jutnux: can't disagree there though
<zleap> i take it you guys are on google+ (+1 comments)
<swat_> paln: for the iphone, or the blackberry? :)
 * Nafallo upgraded from Sybian to Android earlier this year, and is not disappointed.
<Nafallo> s/Sy/&m/
<HazRPG> zleap: I use to use the phrase "+1" before google made it into an app
<zleap> ah
<paln> swat_: when will people learn that BBs are the shittiest phones EVA!!!
<zleap> chat later guys
 * paln wants to throw swat_'s BlackBerry at him
<swat_> they have their good points
<paln> swat_: yes, that they can be used as a brick to throw at your enemy's tht have better phones than you
<paln> pwned!!!!!
<HazRPG> my vision of BB's is that they're viral - in the sense that ... to be very social on one, you have to get your friends to get one
<swat_> hehe
 * Nafallo tries to think of even one good point with blackberries, and is failing
<paln> HazRPG: that IS why they're popular
<paln> because everyone in my school has BB messenger
<swat_> the main selling point for me was the keyboard :)
<paln> and that's just as
<paln> *sad
<swat_> i'm not a big fan of touch screen stuff
<HazRPG> paln: I know only one person who has one... and even then he's constantly trying to get them to convert... but ain't working
<paln> ever heard of Facebook Chat?
<swat_> but i think i might have to adapt
<Nafallo> you have keyboards on other phones too.
<paln> oh yeah, hey have, and they're on that constantly as well!
<Nafallo> nokia comes ton mind.
<paln> *they
<Nafallo> s/on/o/
<HazRPG> paln: android just dominated over here, and that's without even telling people "oh its awesome" it just sort of happened
<webpigeon> It's odd that people treat a messenger which you pay monthly for on a phone is a 'feature'
<HazRPG> paln: sadly, yes... and no I don't really use it...
<paln> webpigeon: I know
<swat_> Nafallo: i haven't found anything that compares to the blackberry keyboard though
<paln> my sister, being opposite me in level of intellect, thought B was free texts
<paln> *BBM
<HazRPG> xD
<paln> why kernel does Damn Small use?
<paln> version 4 of DSL, that is
<webpigeon> paln: Linux 2.4.x i think
<HazRPG> anyone remember genie sms website that let you send free text's online?
<HazRPG> before o2 bought them out and incorporated it into their site
<webpigeon> I think they decided 2.6.x was too big (a while ago)
<HazRPG> yeah... I used that...
<HazRPG> easiest way to 300 free texts a month (or was...)
<webpigeon> Typing your mobile (or a friends mobile) number into a random webpage is a sure fire way to get a headake.
<paln> OK, cos virtual box need to know which of  2.{2,4,6} is the kernel
<HazRPG> webpigeon: back then I had a nokia, and used windows... so all my contacts were backup up on the PC using their contacts tool
<paln> webpigeon: lol duh
<jutnux> My Dad keeps getting texts from a chruch
<jutnux> church
<paln> HazRPG: I Remeber Genie chips from O2 as my sister had one
<webpigeon> paln: I *think* it's 2.4, but it's just to allocate ram and for a pretty icon i belive
<HazRPG> webpigeon: baring in mind I was also about 13 at the time
<HazRPG> paln: I think that was after genie was bought out
<HazRPG> I use to do all sorts of stupid hacks back in the day
<HazRPG> I think I was the only kid at school that actually owned a direct-link cable for my phone
<Nafallo> hmmm
<HazRPG> as in the 6 pronged thing that you had to hook up to the back of the phone (you took out the battery first, and place it in)
<Nafallo> pretty sure my first phone didn't have such an connectivity option.
<HazRPG> Nafallo: most did, it was the cable that was impossible to find
<HazRPG> Nafallo: the connection was used for debugging (or designed for that job) along with resetting stuff on the phone - shops mainly used them to "unlock" the phones
<Nafallo> ehrm. are we talking the kind of phones that you couldn't fit in a jeanspocket?
<HazRPG> Nafallo: nokia 3310
<HazRPG> Nafallo: so no lol
<HazRPG> my first phone was awful
<HazRPG> antenna, etc
<Nafallo> that was YEARS after my first phone :-)
<HazRPG> Nafallo: nokia 3310 wasn't my first phone :P
<HazRPG> but it /was/ the phone (which I still own, and still has perfect battery life and serves as my backup) that I had the longest
<HazRPG> -I*
<HazRPG> actually no I was right first time
<Nafallo> I sometimes miss my third phones (I believe it was)
<Nafallo> s/phones/-s/
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> nokia 3310 all the way
<Nafallo> Nokia 7110 :-)
<HazRPG> you could nuke it, and it'll still work
<Nafallo> had it for 6 years.
<HazRPG> Nafallo: I still have my 3310!
<Nafallo> but not as primary/only phone :-)
<HazRPG> well no...
<HazRPG> woah, I just dug up my first "polyphonic" phone
<HazRPG> thought I threw this out
<HazRPG> I still think they should have been called midi tones
<HazRPG> that's all they were
<HazRPG> (I'm currently packing because I'm moving, and I'm finding all kinds of old stuff)
<jutnux> Ubuntu servers, y u no hurry up and find mai key
<HazRPG> jutnux: probably your wireless cable messing with things ;D
<jutnux> Finally, it's found it.
<HazRPG> check top, sounds like something is hogging your cpu
<jutnux> Nah it's okay
 * swat_ is excited, upgrade nearly complete
<HazRPG> swat_: 12.04?
<swat_> HazRPG: aye
<HazRPG> swat_: \o/
<swat_> reboot time :D
<swat_> right, i'm there
<swat_> now to find out what's different/better/cooler
<webpigeon> Changelog?
<paln> you guys still here?
<jutnux> Sorry
 * paln feels lonely
<jutnux> was importing my pgp key
<paln> oh good
<paln> :D
<paln> I meant everyone else
<paln> I realised you were busy with some server
<paln> webpigeon just disappeared!
<jutnux> It's all cool now
<paln> anyways jutnux how long you been using Linux as a whole
<jutnux> Well
<jutnux> 2 years properly
<jutnux> and before that I kept hopping from Ubuntu to Windows
<paln> I've been using it 2 years whatsoever
<paln> what dyou mean "properly")
<paln> *?
<paln> I still dual boot
<paln> but only for Windows Applications
<paln> like iTunes mainly
<webpigeon> paln: not disappeared, playing with arch in a VM :)
<paln> cos of my iPhone
<jutnux> Just use banshee you silly fool.
<paln> it doesn't really do justice in WinE
<paln> webpigeon: ah cool
<paln> webpigeon: the reason I used arch was to see if plain old lxde would suit my needs
<jutnux> I like Unity.
<webpigeon> I just like playing with new things :)
<paln> or rather, my shitty ten year old pcs needs
 * jutnux awaits sh**storm
<paln> dal
<paln> btw, dsl confuses me
<paln> the documentation start page is wrong
<paln> it says JWM should have a "Start" button ( you know, like Puppy ) but there is nothing!
<webpigeon> paln: right click?
<paln> yes I switched WMs to make sure :/
<paln> anyways, can't go back to the PC ATM so will have to try tomorrow
<webpigeon> Haven't used it in ages
<paln> webpigeon: yea tht works but it doesn't make sense as to why either te documentation feels like lying to me or the OS wants to tease me by hiding the task bar
<paln> alright guys night
<paln> I'm gonna watch some Misfits on 4oD
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-23
<webpigeon> o/
<jutnux> WOO
<gordonjcp> right, time to cut some video
<jutnux> I am back.
<zleap> wb
<HazRPG> okay I think I've managed to narrow down my sound issue a little bit
<tidenburg> #
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<popey> Morning
<popey> #club-alan
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Are you all set for Christmas popey ?
<djones> Good morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning djones
<djones> Hi
<popey> nope
<TheOpenSourcerer> Me neither ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am going to try and do some shopping today.
<popey> Going to Oxford Street as usual tomorrow
<TheOpenSourcerer> Arghhhh!
<TheOpenSourcerer> That is just mad
<shauno> sounds like a setup for some extreme ironing
<TheOpenSourcerer> At Oxford Circus - That would be fun.
<TheOpenSourcerer> wow - Mozilla to get $300m/yr from Google for the search tie in. http://allthingsd.com/20111222/google-will-pay-mozilla-almost-300m-per-year-in-search-deal-besting-microsoft-and-yahoo/
<shauno> do they mention what the current agreement is?
<AlanBell> In 2010, Google contributed 84 percent of Mozillaâs $123 million in revenue
<TheOpenSourcerer> It ended in Nov. Was probably about $100m by the sounds of it
<shauno> quite a leap then.  seems counterintuitive when they have a better browser of their own now
<AlanBell> I don't think google mind people using Firefox at all, they don't like rubbish browsers existing
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think Google like competition too. It keeps everyone on their toes and encourages innovation.
<shauno> just an interesting position to be that financially dependant on your closest competition
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: nah, London is dead on xmas eve
<popey> I arrive at 8am to have breakfast before shopping. it's lovely
<shauno> I'm doing my usual for christmas; 60 hours in 5 days, then I run off giggling with my pockets full of overtime
<popey> http://twitpic.com/3j04gu
<czajkowski> aloha
<shauno> and then off to the UK for christmas \o/
<shauno> er, new years, rather
<MooDoo> morning
<MooDoo> -
<BigRedS> good morning!
<christel> morning -uk!
<MooDoo> morning christel :) x
<christel> how are you this fine morning?
<MooDoo> not to bad, completed the food shopping at 7:30 this morning, even then sainsburys was packed
<christel> well done!
<MooDoo> christel: i was mad :d
<christel> i can imagine, mad in more ways than one i'd say! ;)
<MooDoo> christel: oi you :p
<christel> :P
<christel> i need to brave the shops and get a couple more presents today, then i may consider myself done
 * MooDoo gives christel a kiss on the cheek, merry christmas luv :) 
<MooDoo> lol
<christel> wooo
<christel> merry christmas you! <3
<shauno> rather disappointed at how many people showed up for work today.  Came all equipped for a day's gaming :(
<jutnux> Morning all.
<AlanBell> MooDoo: is there a unicode mistletoe?
<MooDoo> â?
<popey> è
<popey> convovulous!
<AlanBell> â  doesn't look quite right, like a flower from teletubbies or something
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good stuff: http://www.cabletv.com/doctor-who-timeline
<MooDoo> helen mirren for the dr :D
<jutnux> I think the beeb should keep Amy Pond.
<jutnux> or whoever plays her
<christel> i quite like amy pond
<swat_> she's pretty hot!
<jutnux> Indeed
<christel> quite
<DJones> Can anybody recommend an online email provider for business, we've got an antique internal pop3 email server and planning to replace/upgrade in the new year.  We've got multiple branches and people move around the branches fairly regularly, so having email online is one of teh suggestions from our IT support firm, a new exchange server is also being suggested
<DJones> Their suggestions at the moment is for an Exchange server (either hosted or inhouse)
<swat_> drussell: vpwsys.net
<swat_> woops
<swat_> DJones: vpwsys.net
<chrisjrob> DJones: I've only heard good things about gmail, thinking of moving across myself
<drussell> swat_: heh sorry to mess up your autocomplete ;o)
 * MartijnVdS uses gmail. â¥ it
<chrisjrob> to be clear, already use gmail for personal, but considering for business
<chrisjrob> very affordable + probably the best anti-spam
<DJones> I was thinking a domain based gmail could be an option, would certainly have advantages, but all suggestions welcome
<chrisjrob> + office + excellent webmail
<chrisjrob> hard for anything else to compete tbh
<chrisjrob> currently I just set-up a postfix vps for email
<swat_> DJones: have nothing but praise for vpwsys.net, very clued up guys, reasonable prices
<swat_> though the google solution could work, depending on how much you trust them
<chrisjrob> well there is that
<AlanBell> and whether you have jurisdictional issues
<chrisjrob> although the enterprise terms of service are supposedly that much more reasonable
<swat_> AlanBell: pangolin all done and running
<AlanBell> yay
<swat_> AlanBell: and i have to say, mightily impressed so far, it's like ocelot but a bit less 'sticky' :)
<popey> hurrah
<DJones> swat_: Just looking at the Agility Mail service, would probably cost Â£6K per year for the pro service for 40+ email addresses
<DJones> Although it does talk about bespoke for more than 10 email addresses
<chrisjrob> yikes
<chrisjrob> DJones: how many users?
<DJones> chrisjrob: 40+
<chrisjrob> ah okay, sorry
<chrisjrob> same as us
<chrisjrob> we have about 50
<chrisjrob> very very happy with a bytemark vps + postfix + dovecot
<chrisjrob> using the bytemark greylisting anti-spam solution, which is dirt cheap
<DJones> Some of which have very large mailboxes, we're in the holiday industry, so multiple emails overseas daily with brochures etc
<chrisjrob> DJones: depends what you mean by very large, our largest around about 3gb
<swat_> DJones: it's probably worth emailing them with some requirements - as you say, they do bespoke solutions
<popey> To the cloud!
<chrisjrob> our total annual cost is about Â£700
<chrisjrob> and that's because I massively overspecced the VPS
<chrisjrob> and so far zero downtime
<chrisjrob> since 2007
 * jutnux upgrades to pangolin
<popey> yay jutnux
<popey> everyone is doing it âº
<swat_> popey: yup yup!
<jutnux> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade right?#
<jutnux> It's early in the morning and my brain doesn't function
<popey> no
<popey> update-manager -d
<popey> or
<popey> sudo do-release-upgrade -d
<jutnux> Gotcha
<popey> to upgrade to Precise Pangolin
<jutnux> 15 minutes remaining \o/
<zleap> yay i now have a tab on firefox that lists episodes of uupc
<popey> mine took about 3 hours
<jutnux> Firefox :-(
<popey> \o/ firefox
<popey> i switched back from chrome to firefox
<jutnux> I don't know whether I look it or not
<drussell> firefox ftw
<jutnux> like
<jutnux> Chrome keeps being a biatch
<andylockran> :)
<jutnux> 700kb/s a second
<jutnux> Fastest my Internet has everrrrrrrrrrr been
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps. Anybody bothering to do any work today?
<andylockran> bigcalm: yep :D
<andylockran> I'm working on using the percona toolkit to check data integrity in MySQL replication.
<DJones> bigcalm: For a change, I am :)
<DJones> Although whether investigating hosted email counts as work is another matter :)
<dwatkins> of course it does
<dwatkins> well, unless you're a primary school teacher or something else unrelated
<dwatkins> Work is anything that helps me help my customers. I consider listening to podcasts as work, even though I do it in the car on the way to work.
<DJones> Just looking at Google Apps to see if that is a feasable option
<dwatkins> I may switch my domain away from GoDaddy thanks to them supporting SOPA.
<AlanBell> we have a bunch of domains there
<popey> yeah, I'm considering the same myself
<popey> ghandi seem popular alternatives
<andylockran> I like gandi
<MartijnVdS> gandi.net is wonderful
<andylockran> free glue records :D
 * MartijnVdS sniffs some glue records
<dwatkins> changeip were a cheap choice a while back, not sure what their stance on it is
<dwatkins> I'm still amazed it's even come to this
<jutnux> dwatkins: Creator of CheezBurger is moving his 1000 domains from GoDaddy.
<dwatkins> jutnux: yeah, among many others from what I understand - they still seem to be saying it's not making any difference to them, although that may just be them ignoring the issue
<popey> him moving 1000 domains does mean nothing to them
<popey> him _telling_ everyone he's moving 1000 domains is another thing
<dwatkins> indeed, a drop in the ocean in real terms, but yes, the impact of the whole boycott should be significant
<bigcalm> Considering that Apple also support SOPA, where's the boycott?
<jutnux> I've never bought an Apple Product.
<jutnux> Apart from an iPod which I got for Christmas.
<dwatkins> Microsoft does too, but I imagine many of us boycott them already ;)
<bigcalm> Apple is more than just hardware
<bigcalm> QuickTime, iTunes, Safari, etc
<jutnux> I honestly doubt SOPA will pull through.
<dwatkins> It doesn't look like it's being stopped, jutnux :-/
<jutnux> If it does, I guess TOR will be used more often.
<dwatkins> Tor is made illegal by SOPA.
<jutnux> It is ridiculous.
<dwatkins> So was privatising the postal system.
<jutnux> Meh, never send post.
<jutnux> It'll be a bad choice for America anyway, all of the companies will move somewhere else.
<bigcalm> Anybody considered that GoDaddy will make a pretty penny from all of the transfer fees?
<dwatkins> indeed, although many companies already have callcentres in cheaper countries etc.
<jutnux> Perhaps. The call centres are being moved back to the UK though.
<popey> bigcalm: once
<popey> renewal fees are for life âº
<jutnux> Microsoft aren't supporting SOPA I don't think.
<jutnux> 1 hour to install the upgrades, you kiddin'?!
<dwatkins> I think they are a member of a business group which supports it, which means they support it by implication.
<dwatkins> jutnux: yeah, I much prefer speaking to someone in my timezone
<zleap> if they were really against I guess they would be more vocal about it,  end of the day they object to piracy too
<dwatkins> yeah, the trouble is it can be so easily misused without due process
<andylockran> yep
<shauno> I think that's why most companies are tied on it.  it is a problem would benefit from a solution
<shauno> but the currently proposed solutions are majorly broken
<zleap> the whole issue on piracy is a joke i tried to report a trader a few years ago,  selling pirate dvds.   police not interestedf, cinema not interesed either trading standards website so complex,  it was our local monday market site,  now local trading standards officers would know where i mean,   i gave up with their website as i had no address or details
<zleap> i am not going to bother in future for exactly the reasons above
<dwatkins> They're trying to attack the tools used to pirate media, when those tools also have legitimate uses. They should be looking at the reasons people copy stuff, and how they can make it pointless, e.g. making stuff available online cheaply
<zleap> exactly
<jutnux> If I'm honest, I don't want to spend Â£15 on a DVD.
<dwatkins> of course this cuts out the middlemen, who are the people trying to hold onto their business which is outdated
<zleap> why can i buy a 50 blank dvds for 4.99 and yet get charged 15 quid for a dvd with a movie onit
<jutnux> netflix would've been a choice except it's not on Ubuntu.
<dwatkins> granted, I like having boxed sets of DVDs, but I'll happily pay a couple quid to watch a film online, or a few episodes of something when it comes out
<bigcalm> zleap: you're paying for a licence to view the content, not the physical media itself
<bigcalm> zleap: it's the same for audio CDs and software
<zleap> bigcalm, its still a rip off
<bigcalm> zleap: the customer never owns what they have bought
<dwatkins> especially as DVDs fail after a few years of use, scratching etc.
<popey> i dont buy DVDs any more
<shauno> I very rarely buy physical media anymore
<popey> my policy is 'if i am likely to watch it 3 times in my life, I'll but it'
<bigcalm> I get other people to buy me blu-ray ;)
<dwatkins> popey: do you rent stuff, itunes etc.?
<jutnux> I only watch films once.
<popey> i have itunes stuff recently
 * zleap buys ubuntu cd's mainly
<popey> but more often I just dont bother
<popey> I watch on demand on virgin
<popey> for the trip to the USA last year I filled an iPad up with films from itunes
<bigcalm> popey: does that give you access to all films ever made?
<popey> was _so_ easy.
<popey> no, but i dont want to watch all films ever made
<bigcalm> *grumble*
<popey> i want to watch _something_
<zleap> i gues the same is for e-books,  i guess
<shauno> that's what's failing big media at the moment.  I don't care see purchases as paying for this film, that album anymore.  I see it as paying for convience
<bigcalm> That's why we still buy odd films now and then. Mostly from our youth
<popey> i still buy the odd thing but not much
<popey> i have the classics like 2001, star wars etc
<jutnux> Star Wars \o/
<popey> but new stuff I just watch in HD and thats it
<popey> I'd probably have bought Tron Legacy if I didnt rent it twice âº
<jutnux> I have never seen it.
<bigcalm> Once we have a decent way of streaming media to the TV in the sitting room, then I'll be happy to stop buying DVDs. But I'm not there yet
 * zleap has limited funds so will buy a film if I really like it,  I can go to the cinema cheap on a tuesday then if I really wnat to buy the movie I wil, usually when its been out for 6 months and costs <10
<popey> bigcalm: Ubuntu TV!
<popey> :D
<bigcalm> popey: when is that released? ;)
<popey> you mean 'when is that started'
<bigcalm> Also, there's something fun about browsing the shelves
<bigcalm> Haha
<shauno> this is just asking for a boot, but I love my appletv :/  the software is pants, I replaced it with xbmc.  but the box itself is lovely
<popey> yeah, i can understand that shauno
<shauno> so far it's the only box I found for the telly which passes the neuroticly-tidy SO test
<bigcalm> That's why I stopped using MythTV. The computer I built for it didn't fit in the TV cabinet
<popey> shame the apple tv only does 720p
<shauno> my telly only does 720, so that was a minor quibble for us
<bigcalm> When I did replace it with the Revo and boxee, we rarely used it as it required faffing about
<MartijnVdS> I use my Samsung TV's built-in video thingy
<shauno> I wish someone would do a cablecard gizmo for that stuff
<MartijnVdS> it does mkv (h264, aac, ac3, dts, even the "hd" variants)
<bigcalm> Reduce the number of remote controls please! We already have 4 in use
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: logitech harmony \o/
<shauno> a cablecard with an arm & xbmc.  that'd be perfect
<popey> is that badu?
<chrisjrob> put mythtv in the garage, and use your TV to play mythtv
<chrisjrob> works very well, for some reason the picture wuality is greatly improved
<chrisjrob> all you need is a DLNA TV
<chrisjrob> like samsung
<chrisjrob> "all share"
<jutnux> Allshare <3
<shauno> I'm not buying a new telly for something a $99 box can do :/
<dwatkins> chrisjrob: I'm considering something like that, it would be nice to get it top integrate with my Sky box too
<dwatkins> My TV does DLNA, thankfully.
<chrisjrob> only problem I have hit is that I have transcoded my entire music collection to ogg, which samsung cannot play
<chrisjrob> to think, I had it all in mp3 format
<chrisjrob> *sigh*
<dwatkins> I saw a Panasonic 3D TV with DLNA the other day, I much prever the menus on the Bravia.
<shauno> you transcoded lossy to lossy for a compatibility and quality hit, just because you wanted ogg?
<chrisjrob> shauno: well i re-rippped rather than transcoded, but yes
<shauno> ah, that nerfs the quality arguement then
<dwatkins> I hope you did so at a nice high bitrate ;)
<chrisjrob> i was ill in bed for a week with pneumonia, felt like crap, but i could just about hit the buttons to rip my music
<chrisjrob> it took almost the entire week
<shauno> I don't have originals to rip from anymore.  I've bought three CDs since .. 2002.  and anything I had before that is in a box in my father's attic
<chrisjrob> and now I waish i hadn't
<chrisjrob> I think I need pneumonia again
<dwatkins> or a CD Changer ;)
<shauno> put it off until you build a new machine.  then throw it all at it in one huge batch job as a) burn-in, b) justification for buying unimaginally fast hardware :)
<chrisjrob> :)
<dwatkins> http://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/automated-cd-ripper.jpg chrisjrob
<dwatkins> assuming the CDDB has them all, that is
<chrisjrob> actually, I looked into backing up my music collection online, and it worked out that the cost of so doing was higher than the cost of subscribing to an unlimited music download service, should such a catastrophe ever befall me
<dwatkins> I keep two copies my my media, it's simpler to buy another 2 TB disk and just copy the directory
<chrisjrob> dwatkins: how delightfully hacky
<dwatkins> *of
<jutnux> 31 minutes \o/
<dwatkins> chrisjrob: yeah, I'd be tempted to build one if I had enough CDs I cared to rip
<chrisjrob> dwatkins: and you store that off-site...
<dwatkins> chrisjrob: yep, 400 miles away
<chrisjrob> dwatkins: well done :)
<dwatkins> recovery might take a while, of course
<dwatkins> anyway, it's just media, nothing personal (I don't have kids who have made musical recitals I've captured on video or anything, my brother loses that kind of thing occasionally, though)
<dwatkins> if you have only one copy of data, be very careful which power adapter you connect to your external disk enclosure.
<dwatkins> He fried the PCB on the disk and the internals of the disk itself
<zleap> ouch
<zleap> i know someone who did that with a portable cd player,  he got from the US, plugged a different adaptor in, wrong voltage and it burnt out
<popey> chrisjrob: upload your music to google music?
<dwatkins> at least that would have just fried the player and perhaps a single CD, this was a 350 GB disk  with a bunch of mp3s of his kids :'(
<jutnux> :-(
<jutnux> Google Music is only in the US isn't it?
<dwatkins> oh and pictures too - I suspect he might try and recover the disk when he has a spare couple hundred quid
<chrisjrob> yes, i looked into that
<jutnux> Because I'd love to use it.
<dwatkins> There's Amazon's music service too, but I think you pay if you have a lot of music
<dwatkins> Google will probably make their service available in the UK soon.
<zleap> yeah i should get a 2nd hdd really to back up the first one
<dwatkins> rsync for teh win
<zleap> sever small drives is somehow better than 1 big drive
<dwatkins> heh, I can't talk about the advantages of speed, my media is connected to my "server" (a netbook) via USB ;)
<DJones> MooDoo: Are you around for a pm?
<MooDoo> DJones: as long as it involves christmas cheer :D
<zleap> yeah data recovery is exensive, i went to a talk by the vancouver lug in 2006, you are talking megabucks for firedamage esp as they can take the hdd apart and put it back to gether again
<DJones> Cheers :)
<dwatkins> zleap: yeah, I think it starts at the high hundreds/thousands
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> this was back in 2006
<zleap> it was a really interesting talk,  and they use lots of Linux / free tools to do it :),  whicj is why there were at a lug meet
<dwatkins> I asked about it at a similar time on behalf of a customer in my last job
<shauno> I heard itunes match launched in the UK, so I can't imagine amazon music is far behind; it's mostly the same agreements with the same labels
<shauno> er, google music, rather
<popey> hope so
<popey> I am uploading my entire collection to google music âº
<shauno> barely related, but I'm looking forward to seeing what netflix' offering looks like over here.  they're slated to launch within the next quarter
<zleap> cool
<shauno> especially interesting for me as lovefilm don't do RoI, netflix have already said they are
<dwatkins> silly lovefilm
<dwatkins> I like the idea of being able to watch online by paying a subscription
<dwatkins> not that they have the best films, but it's a good start
<zleap> why don't lovefilm do Roi
<jutnux> Spotify for Films would be amazing
<zleap> esp as there is a linux client in development ( i think)
<dwatkins> I thought it was just a flash application
<jutnux> Nope.
<jutnux> That's Grooveshark dwatkins
 * dwatkins notes the existence of screenclick in Ireland
<jutnux> 10 minutes \o/
<dwatkins> jutnux: I thought I'd played films off the lovefilm website via my browser before with no plugin
<dwatkins> well, no non-standard plugin
<jutnux> Oh right, thoguht you meant spotify.
<jutnux> Sorry.
<dwatkins> ahh
 * daubers needs to remember how to set the answerphone message thing at work again
<daubers> stupid BT pbx thing
<dwatkins> BT make a lot of stupid hardware ;)
<bigcalm> PBX rock!
<dwatkins> my home hub regularly throws me offline
<bigcalm> No, BT resell a lot of hardware made by other companies. BT are the MS of this world
<dwatkins> true, they make it available then
<dwatkins> I should put my D-Link in its place, I suspect that'll work much better
<paln> yo
<dwatkins> oioi
<paln> what's this about routers?
<dwatkins> My BT home hub 2 disconnects me a couple times a day
<paln> dwatkins: leave me alone I don't know you :P
<bigcalm> o.O
<paln> jutnux I know from yesterday
<dwatkins> I didn't touch you ;)
<paln> bigcalm: lol
<daubers> Really want to replace the BT thing with an asterisk box
<paln> dwatkins: isn't that kind of impossible over the Internet anyway?
<dwatkins> paln: indeed
<daubers> but the cost of desk phones for voip things is a bit steep at the moment
<paln> daubers: asterisk box?
<daubers> !info asterisk
<daubers> :(
<lubotu3> asterisk (source: asterisk): Open Source Private Branch Exchange (PBX). In component universe, is optional. Version 1:1.6.2.9-2ubuntu2.1 (natty), package size 2894 kB, installed size 9320 kB
<daubers> :)
<paln> daubers: lol, almost fail
 * dwatkins wanders off to find a sandwich
<daubers> Why is that still on natty?
<daubers> ping AlanBell
<paln> !seen AlanBell
<lubotu3> I have no seen command
<paln> WHAT?!?!
<paln> poo...
<dwatkins> excellent, firefox supports google queries in the address bar now
<daubers> paln: He'll respond when he has a moment
<paln> dwatkins: nice. now all the major rower are cheating the omnibox
<paln> *browsers
<dwatkins> paln: cheating the whatnow?
<paln> the Omnibox from Google Chrone, where URLs and searches are in one field
 * daubers ponders upgrading his laptop to precise
<dwatkins> yes, what is cheating about this?
<jutnux> Firefox isn't
<brobostigon> chrome/chromium*
<daubers> Will have the christmas hols to fix it if it borks if I do it now
<paln> brobostigon: meh, I'd only use chromium if I wanted a super-fast erosion of chrome
<paln> it doesn't hog as much ram
<jutnux> daubers: Doubt it'll bork
<paln> *version
<brobostigon> paln: i corrected youre spelling.
<bigcalm> brobostigon: you're
<paln> my iPhones autocorrect is beginning to bug me
<dwatkins> you can turn it off
<daubers> jutnux: No, but better safe then screaming in panic because it did :)
<bigcalm> brobostigon: your
<bigcalm> (Correcting myself, correcting you)
<jutnux> daubers: Perhaps :-)
<jutnux> Science In Action \o/
<brobostigon> bigcalm: good point,
<paln> brobostigon: no you didn't
 * daubers presses "Upgrade" and waits
<paln> even though I did misspell it as "Chrone", not Chrome
 * bigcalm sends out emails to disappoint customers. Holiday starts in 1h 39min!
<paln> wait, how do you upgrade to Precise Pangolin?
<jutnux> Brb, need to restart :-D
<jutnux> paln: update-manager -d
<paln> ok
<brobostigon> do-release-upgrade also works.
<paln> cos in the update manager settings I only find it notifies me of either all releases or onlyLTS ones
<bigcalm> 12.04 is still in alpha, it won't show itself to you unless you dig
<paln> ok then
<daubers> !12.04
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) will be the sixteenth release of Ubuntu. Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/784 | Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1
<daubers> !alpha
<daubers> paln: Running 12.04 may present breakage as, like Grolsch, it's not ready yet
<paln> regarding damn small Linux, is there any way to install new packages?
<paln> I can't seem to find any documentation on the distro :/
<bigcalm> Not sure how much help you'll get for it in an Ubuntu channel
<marcushaslam> yea will be good i think
<paln> daubers: and I'm not one for testing, so I'm  still on 11.10
<paln> bigcalm: lol obviously
<paln> just a query
<daubers> jabber \o/
<MattJ> jABBER \O/
<MattJ> !
<paln> daubers: what's jabber even like?
<MattJ> I really need to disable my caps lock key
<daubers> heh :)
<MartijnVdS> paln: like Google Talk, mostly
<paln> MattJ: you just did
<MattJ> paln, I mean disable it entirely... so pressing it does nothing :)
<daubers> MattJ: I'm rebuilding the doorbell! Slapping it on MQTT this time, and building an MQTT to XMPP gateway :)
<dwatkins> Isn't DSL a Debian?
<MattJ> daubers, woohoo!
<paln> MattJ: why would you do that?
<MattJ> daubers, what's the gateway written in? :)
<MattJ> paln, because I only ever press caps lock by mistake
<daubers> MattJ: (python....)
<paln> dwatkins: based on knoppix gentoo ad Debian
<daubers> Waiting for my xbee's to turn up for it
<jutnux> Upgraded, yaya
<MattJ> daubers, XEP-0114 though?
<dwatkins> paln: right, so if it's Debian-based, you should be able to use apt-get
<daubers> MattJ: Not seen that one
<MattJ> daubers, or it's connecting to the server as a client?
<paln> but if you decide to install normally rather than frugally, it installs "like a Debian distribution would"
<daubers> MattJ: It's connecting as a client to both servers
<MattJ> Gotcha
<andylockran> LD
<daubers> MattJ: Think I'm still using prosody as the xmpp server.... not poked it in ages
<MattJ> :)
<paln> jutnux: what's 12.04 like atm?
<jutnux> paln: Ok for me.
<paln> jutnux: any real change in stability ?
<jutnux> paln: Not really, seems a bit faster imo.
<paln> jutnux: really? might try it out then :D
<jutnux> It is now the desktop's turn to be upgraded.
<paln> meaning...?
<paln> oh right different pc haha
<jutnux> This week in tech, 2 hours long \o/
<paln> so what led you guys to Linux?
<BigRedS> I was asked to download 1/6th of a set of Redhat CDs off Kazaa by a guy I was at school with
<paln> omg Kazaa
<paln> memories...
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<popey> hehe
<popey> I was told about it in ~1994 by a beardy guy at college
<popey> i said it will never take off
<BigRedS> We got the CDs together at somebody's house, I spent about four days trying to get it to work and gave up. I tried Mandrake a few months later and that seemed to work
<popey> it was slackware iirc
<paln> I got into it when my sister broke the old computer I have by trying to install Wondows XP on t hen it only has 128mb of ram
<shauno> I picked up linux because everyone I knew got windows 95 but my machine wouldn't run it.  so I went and found something else to play with
<MattJ> I couldn't afford Windows XP (and didn't consider it worth paying for)
<paln> so when he reverted back to WinMe, I had to reinstall the drivers for the scanner
<MattJ> Partly I couldn't afford it because it was above the specs of my computer
<dwatkins> I installed Linux because I wanted to learn about unix-like kernels back in 1994
<paln> that was my first real experience with tech
<shauno> heh, linux will never take off?  It's been the year of the linux desktop for the last 8 years running!
<BigRedS> I had no idea what a unix-like kernel was for the first few years of Linux use
<MattJ> shauno, the year of the Linux desktop was 2008, and I'm sticking to that :)
<paln> so I got interested and after pondering around heard about Linux and downloaded Ubuntu 10.04
<paln> MattJ: too right
<paln> so many people are using it yet they've never heard of it
<paln> it just about the publicity
<shauno> I got slackware 3.3 from my electronics teacher.  and then had to borrow a second floppy drive from him because my machine didn't have enough ram for the installer's ramdisk :(
<paln> regarding whether anybody realises they're using it
<paln> shauno: lol
<jutnux> I installed Linux for a play around in late 2009
<bigcalm> I attended an 'Introduction to Unix' course in '95. We used Red Hat 5 and learnt about sed and awk
<MattJ> You're making me all feel old
<paln> jutnux: what distro?
<MattJ> bigcalm, ah, thank you :)
<jutnux> Ubuntu, obviously.
<paln> MattJ: that's cos me and jutnux are teens
<paln> jutnux: just checking :/ jheeze
<MattJ> Speaking of which, who's for FOSDEM?
<jutnux> Sorry :(
<shauno> did anyone else end up on djgpp?
<bigcalm> It's great that it appeals to all ages
<jutnux> bigcalm: We're just nerds
<paln> MattJ: what?
<MattJ> http://fosdem.org/
 * BigRedS intends to have work send him
<AlanBell> hi daubers
<jutnux> Where do you work BigRedS?
<paln> FOSDEM looks interesting
<BigRedS> in a datacenter in cambridgeshire
<jutnux> bELGIUM :-(
<paln> so does anyone know when the next kind of meeting is ?
<BigRedS> It's but a train ride away from London :)
<paln> I hear they have them every so often
<paln> they bein you guys
<paln> and other Ubuntu Linux freaks
<BigRedS> there's an approximately-monthly happy hour
<BigRedS> which is in a pub, it moves around the country
<BigRedS> I can't remember where January's is
<paln> BigRedS: yes I heard about that
<paln> I am from London
<jutnux> I am from Norwich.
<shauno> I like the way you describe that.  I picture ubuntu itself as being on a never-ending drunken stumble that way
<paln> jutnux: :o no chance meeting one another then
<jutnux> In 3 years when I have a car :-)
<shauno> "ubuntu happy hour .. last seen heading past the watford gap.  if found, please return to .."
<BigRedS> paln: ah, they're in London more often than not generally
<paln> what's the legal age in this country? 16 or 18 for driving?
<BigRedS> shauno: haha!
<jutnux> 17
<BigRedS> paln: 17 IIRC
<paln> BigRedS: lucky me!!!
<paln> IIRC?
<BigRedS> If I Remember Correctly
<paln> oh ok
<paln> then 3 or 4 years till I get a car
<dwatkins> yeah, 17 to get a provisional license
<paln> ok cool
<dwatkins> also, Norwich is pretty close to London as far as I'm concerned, I live in Edinburgh ;)
<shauno> I'm not a huge fna of cars for things like that.  I'd rather national stagecoach so I can nap
<paln> dwatkins: argh, it's a Scotman!
<dwatkins> 115 miles - I could do that without stopping in a couple hours
<paln> (no offence)
<BigRedS> Norwich is pretty close to Edinburgh as far as I'm concerned - I grew up in London :)
<bigcalm> Hah
<dwatkins> paln: no, I grew up near Reading, Berkshire actually :-p
<paln> oh...
<jutnux> I think you should all come to Norwich
<jutnux> ;-_
<BigRedS> I still believe that anything outside of the M25 is entirely theoretical, despite now living there
<paln> BigRedS: same
<dwatkins> jutnux: what's there?
<dwatkins> BigRedS is therefore entirely theoretical
<paln> BigRedS: jahahahahahaha
<shauno> well, gravity is theoretical ..
<feisar_> hi, if I want firewall rules to be persistent after a reboot do I need to get the UFW service to start on boot?
<BigRedS> Oh. I'd missed that.
<BigRedS> :(
<paln> shauno: true :/
<BigRedS> feisar_: yeah
<BigRedS> you'll boot with a 'standard' set of iptables rules, and then UFW will apply its own when it starts up and reads its config
<paln> sho does anyone know of any kind of decent computer classes
<paln> like programming and shit
<dwatkins> paln: have a look at Stanford's video lectures
<paln> not "here's how you use MS Access!"
<dwatkins> but please watch your language on this channel
<feisar_> BigRedS: thanks, so how, using upstart do I set it to start on boot?
<BigRedS> feisar_: Ah, that I'm not so sure on! :) I'll have a look, hang on
<paln> dwatkins: ok... personally I don't consider that swearing
<paln> and I never swear tbh
<dwatkins> fair enough, paln, just letting you know it's a family show :)
<paln> dwatkins: haha ;)
<dwatkins> ...and logged publically
<feisar_> BigRedS: thanks, I have been looking but can't seem to work it out
<paln> dwatkins: oh yea, I forget that
<paln> well I'll betraying out Damn Small later, but bye for now
<dwatkins> enjoy :)
<paln> * be trying
<shauno> stanford have a bunch more of those starting in the new year.  CS 101, crypto, it's looking good
<paln> dwatkins: I'll try whilst trying :D
<paln> shauno: cool, will have to check them out
<dwatkins> shauno: I signed up for that, looks very interesting
 * paln is happy now
 * paln is leaving 
 * paln says bye again
<paln> bye
<shauno> my only beef with them, is I wish they'd put them all under one domain so I could find them!
<zleap> paln, for programming classes I would suggest a good book and a commuity such as this,  if you grab a resource that others also use, then you can ask for help and refer to a specifc page or website
<jutnux> bye
<jutnux> Books suck
<jutnux> Watch youtube videos
<zleap> well book / resource
<BigRedS> feisar_: apparently, update-rc.d still works
<paln> I like wibit.net ATM
<BigRedS> so update-rc.d ufw defaults
<BigRedS> should do what you want, assuming the service is known to upstart as 'ufw'
<zleap> books you can make notes in
<shauno> books are fantastic, if you use them right.  find an itch to scratch, and work from there.  if you just start at the front of a book, you'll be bored senseless before they've got past hello world
<BigRedS> this is the annoying thing about Ubuntu changing the bootup method every fortnight - it's hard to find docs on the particular version you're using :(
<shauno> I thought ufw handled that itself when you do ufw enable?
<shauno> or was it always in my startup, just de-flagged in /etc/default somewhere
<BigRedS> shauno: oh. Perhaps. I just checked for the current version of update-rc.d and it seemed to be update-rc.d
 * BigRedS remembers about /etc/default
 * BigRedS gets more coffee
<BigRedS> feisar_: yeah, check for a file /etc/default/ufw and see if its' disabled in there
<BigRedS> I know Shorewall's disabled by default - it's a sensible thing to do with a firewall
<shauno> I know if I do 'ufw disable', that persists across reboots.  so it's toggling something, somewhere
<dwatkins> heh, lovefilm asks me to install silverlight, but allows me to use flash anyway
<shauno> it just tells me that irish creditcards don't count :(
<directhex> dwatkins: lovefilm goes SL-only in january iirc
<jutnux> http://imgur.com/9Tz8K
<dwatkins> directhex: oh bah, I guess I'll be cancelling my subscription then
<jutnux> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/12/godaddy-faces-december-29-boycott-over-sopa-support.ars
<directhex> "Flash software will continue to run alongside Silverlight until the first week of January 2012, so that everyone has time to make the switch"
<directhex> http://blog.lovefilm.com/uncategorized/why-were-switching-from-flash-to-silverlight.html
<jutnux> Silverlight
<jutnux> Oh my God
<jutnux> That's like stepping back 8 years
<jutnux> As I believe was said in the UUPC
<feisar_> BigRedS: OK, I just rebooted (it's a new server) and the rules have held, despite 'service --status-all' showing a '?' against ufw
<feisar_> so it looks like 'ufw enable' is all that's needed
<directhex> it's weird, considering microsoft have more or less killed SL
<jutnux> SL is so bad
<BigRedS> feisar_: ah, cool
<feisar_> BigRedS: thanks
<shauno> SL's really not that terrible.  it's just 10 years too late for content to depend on proprietary plugins
<shauno> I don't break out in hives just because it's msft; but I do react about the same as if a page had just told me to install realplayer
<BigRedS> feisar_: no worries, I think it was you and shauno, I just confused things :)
<shauno> if they'd delivered SL back when the bbc popped up a box with 6 different options when you tried to view a video, I'd have loved it
<BigRedS> Oh man, I forgot about realplayer
<bigcalm> This last bit of the working day is going very slowly
<shauno> last bit?  I've got 6 hours left :(
<jutnux> Haha.
<jutnux> I have to go round my grandma's in 4 hours, voluntarily :-(
<bigcalm> Half day \o/
<bigcalm> 30mins to go
<bigcalm> I'm only really in my office incase the phone rings
<awilkins> Yeah, the work week is ending.. then the real work begins
<bigcalm> Too right :S
 * awilkins is a Grinch and a Scrooge
<bigcalm> I need to wrap Hayley's presents
<awilkins> The week off would be quite nice if it wasn't for Christmas
<bigcalm> And a bah humbug to you too :)
<jutnux> Ubuntu is using less ram than my Arch installation. This is gewd.
<shauno> I don't do the week off bit.  I'm working the next 4 days.  leave christmas to the folks with families
<jutnux> shauno: :-(
<shauno> nah.  someone needs to rack up all the overtime :D
<zleap> back later guys
<jutnux> Adios!!
<Seeker`> For the first time in ~15 years (apparently) the company isn't giving us a half day on the lat working day before christmas
<dwatkins> bah
<chrisjrob> Seeker`: same here
<chrisjrob> but then I guess it makes sense
<awilkins> It makes sense to a certain kind of mentality
<awilkins> I would imagine the amount of productive work that it's possible to do is limited
<dwatkins> People are doing work today?
<chrisjrob> lol
<shauno> don't I look busy?  all this typing!
<chrisjrob> irc'ing == work
<dwatkins> I'm kidding, I'm just as busy today as I've been the rest of the week.
<awilkins> If only that meant you were working ...
<shauno> I do consider irc working, in a roundabout way
<awilkins> Oh definitely. IRC is useful to me in a work capacity
<awilkins> A shame our policies think of anything other than our flaky Office Communications Server as the work of Stan
<shauno> I have a very reactionary job.  unless either something breaks, or they need a native english-speaker to write documentation, my main concern becomes staying awake in case something breaks
<awilkins> I'm disproportionately excited by the trailer for The Hobbit.
 * jutnux watches the trailer
<MartijnVdS> shauno: get a buzzer hooked to nagios, that way you can sleep until things break :)
<shauno> we used to have a rather large beeper
<shauno> but now we've been moved into the same cubefarm as a few other teams, so we're not allowed to make loud noises :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that doesn't stop people around here
<MartijnVdS> One big "open office", more shouting than ever
<shauno> surprisingly little shouting here.  I tend to throw toys at people to get their attention
<MartijnVdS> Steel firetruck toys
<shauno> mostly because I struggle pronouncing a lot of these names
<MartijnVdS> Aren't most people called "OI YOU" anyway?
<awilkins> Rig a USB missile launcher to pepper you with nerfules when an alarm goes off?
<MartijnVdS> or something that sends an electric shock through your toes
<bigcalm> 7 mins to go - Excuse me while I rip the phone out of the wall
<christel> HO HO HO
 * bigcalm puts a fiver in christel's hat
<christel> why thank you
<jutnux> Ok guys, just installed 12.04 on my desktop and I get "Ubuntu is running in low graphics mode"
<jutnux> I boot to the recovery prompt and I can't select any options
<shauno> actually, nerf could work.  we still have a box that trips a dry contact, after a disasterous "integration" attempt
<feisar_> hi all, does a ufw on lucid firewall ipv6 too?
<brobostigon> yes, but you need to tell it to do it, the ufw instructions on the wiki say how,
<feisar_> brobostigon: thanks, i'll check the wiki
<MartijnVdS> also, /usr/share/doc/ufw/ should have some
<brobostigon> feisar_: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UFW
<zleap> hi
<jutnux> 12.04 mucked up my partition table and everything :-P
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: how?
<MartijnVdS> it didn't for me..
<jutnux> I have no idea.
<jutnux> Just going to put ubuntu 11.10 back on
<jutnux> Have 12.04 on my laptop  though
<paln> hey again
<shauno> I'm on lucid, and I don't need to specify v6 for most rules?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: because ufw-v6 is off by default?
<paln> you guys are still discussing ufw?
<MartijnVdS> not much was discussed in the last few hours :)
<shauno> hm, I couldn't tell you what default was anymore.  it's been some years
<paln> so anyways, what else is going on around here?
<shauno> it seems most are enjoying the real world today
<MartijnVdS> Real what?
<brobostigon> it is raining hard here. :9
<brobostigon> :(
<MartijnVdS> it's raining a little here :(
<paln> Its raining slightly here
<MartijnVdS> But my 1cm x 3mm neodymium magnets arrived :)
<shauno> I'm on the atlantic coast of Ireland.   It's been raining for years ..
<MartijnVdS> shauno: 8-)
<paln> well, it was puring down earlier
<paln> MartijnVDS: I want some Zen Magnets
<MartijnVdS> shauno: luck of the irish?
<paln> cute little fellas they are
<paln> they're neodymium aswell
<paln> but are spherical
<MartijnVdS> ah, mine are discs
<MartijnVdS> N42
<shauno> the spherical ones look interesting for making buckyballs
<paln> cool
<paln> you should check these guys out http://www.zenmagnets.com/
<MartijnVdS> paln: I just order them from ebay for â¬5 for 20 :)
<paln> shauno: they come in different brand names, one of them actually being BuckyBalls
<paln> you've also got NeoCube and NanoDots
<MartijnVdS> or cheap Chinese ebay sellers ;)
<paln> haha
<paln> i ordered a Rubik's Cube from China
<paln> 4 quid, + 21 dollars p+p
<paln> so Â£14
<shauno> my love for cheap chinese vendors may be all that's still keeping an post in business
<MartijnVdS> â¬5 + free shipping on 20 magnets :)
<paln> i only got it 'cause i speedcube, and it's a decent one
<MartijnVdS> Oh magnets + sugru = win btw
<paln> the China Post tracking service is absolute rubbish though
<paln> sugru?
<MartijnVdS> sugru.com
<paln> ah
 * brobostigon goes to find some beer.
 * paln wants something to discuss
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Hmm.. you make a good point :)
<paln> I need to actually enter the Linux scene
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<paln> I'm beginning to think I'm more of a designer than a coder
<paln> but i've always wanted to code
<MartijnVdS> paln: What's stopping you?
<paln> learning C atm
 * brobostigon returns with franziskaner :)
<MartijnVdS> Try starting with Python or Perl, then go to C later when you've mastered the basic concepts :)
<paln> MartijnVdS: not much, other than secondary school :D
<shauno> (please note that 'or perl' is probably an in-joke)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Perl is not bad.
<paln> I've mastered stuff like pointers and array-like strings
<MartijnVdS> shauno: â¥ Perl
<paln> meh, i guess i'll start with Python
<paln> but i'm learning C atm so i'll finish that online course first ;)
<BigRedS> I learnt Perl and now I'm struggling to come up with a reason to learn C
<paln> BigRedS: really?
<paln> well, i'll make my own way
<BigRedS> I've not yet had anything to write that's particularly better suited to C than Perl
<BigRedS> that's no reason to not learn C
<BigRedS> it's just a good reason to learn Perl :)
<shauno> don't get hung up on languages so much. learn to program.  that's the important bit
<shauno> carpenters don't learn to hammer.  the tool is just a detail
<BigRedS> yeah, it's worth noting, too, that I'm not a programmer
<swat_> first bug on pangolin raised :D
 * paln is hungry, so is going to eat pasta!
<shauno> sounds like a plan
<acperkins> I ended up learning bits of C because Perl wasn't on any of the company's Windows PCs I looked after.
 * paln has finished eating
<paln> that was yum
<paln> anyways, what's this about Perl not being on windows?
<paln> I've compiled Perl scripts in Windows a few times
<paln> or is Perl a program is well as a language?
<paln> !seen
<lubotu3> I have no seen command
<paln> why does this channel's bot not have a seen command?
<brobostigon> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006ml0g/broadcasts/upcoming
<zleap> perl for windows http://www.perl.org/get.html#win32
<zleap> !seen paln
<lubotu3> I have no seen command
<zleap> !lastseen paln
<zleap> paln, not sure
<paln> zleap: so Perl IS a program!
<zleap> yes
<paln> i didn't know that
<paln> i dont' actually know that much about programming
<zleap> hence you get !/bin/perl at the start of scripts
<zleap> or something like that
<paln> the first "language" i learnt was HTML
<paln> then a teeny bit of JavaScript
<zleap> well its a start
<paln> then i attempted XML
<paln> but being 7, i sisnt really understand it
<paln> *didnt
<zleap> i find having a focus is a good way to learn something
<paln> yeah...you have to have a decent interest in the subject
<zleap> it would be good to get as many young people like you together to learn languges online
<paln> e.g. i'm excellent at biology but i hate it
<paln> ironically
<paln> lol, i appreciate that
<paln> ;)
<zleap> I have a meeting (hopefully ) with one of the people at my local youth centre regarding me helping to set up a programming group,  talking to you here, is like giving me more of an idea that there IS a need out there
<zleap> and that teachers simply can't hack doing it
<paln> well, there's always room for improvement
<paln> but you have to start in order to improve
<paln> true -- teachers never do seem to understand the kids
<paln> it's more on a need-to-know basis
<acperkins> I've never tried compiling Perl programs, or Python though I've heard it can be done with reasonable success
<zleap> they are too focussed on exams, etc
<paln> "oh, this kid needs help, let's see what i need to do" kind of thing
<zleap> i think perl is a script
<zleap> paln  yes exactly
<paln> zleap: yeah, exams are a lot of stress
<paln> which is why I do /BTEC/ IT
<paln> gives me more time to review my work
<acperkins> I wish there had been programming groups when I was still in school, or real Comp Sci courses instead of "IT"
<paln> rather than worry about getting everything perfect on one occassion
<zleap> and as i said before,  are no how it is in the real world,  in the real world even ubuntu coding, you get help from others for your code
<paln> they mark your coursework, you see
<paln> so it's more like reality, in a vague sense
<paln> i hate the fact it isnt what i imagined it to be
<paln> as a result, ive got people who have no idea what an if statement is in my class
<paln> and why had to use them in MS Excel on the first day
<zleap> i think something like gold, platenum ingots would suit you,   with those you need to do X hours contribution to an OSS project
<paln> maybe, but i kinda get hung up on my schoolwork
<zleap> schools could offer ingots at a vastly reduced cost compared to normal exams
<paln> it would be better if schools allowed students to change their subjects at any time througout the academic year , imho
<paln> but for a valid reason, obviously
<paln> what are ingots, btw?
<paln> i've heard the term before...somewhere :/
<zleap> http://www.theingots.org/
<MooDoo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingot
<MooDoo> ooops lol
<zleap> np
<AlanBell> Ian Lynch's qualification thingie
<paln> MooDoo: haha a light piece of metal
<MooDoo> that'll teach me for coming in halfway through a conversation :D
<paln> AlanBell: will look into it sometime
<paln> MooDoo: too true
<paln> Computer Science needs to be today's IT
<zleap> this country is too far behind and has too many people saying MS is everything,   and everything else is insignificant
<paln> IT needs to be renamed
<zleap> paln, that is what the people behind raspberry PI are saying, it also needs to come from young people
<acperkins> I think the government are trying to push Comp Sci into schools now at last
<zleap> well you need two courses one IT being office stuff the other being COmpter science which is programming etc
<paln> zleap: rightly so, yet we don't really have anything in our power to do that
<paln> zleap: i thought they did that
<zleap> paln, what about youth parliament
<shauno> IT really needs to be split in half.  basic computer literacy and CS are two entirely different subjects now
<paln> acperkins: since when?
<zleap> also they are meant to listen to young people more
<paln> zleap: they are meant to, yet they dont
<paln> the probability of this situation being beneficial is far too low atm
<acperkins> saw it in the news recently, I will dig up a link
<paln> shauno, it already is, but they spparently don't offer Comp Sci as a GCSE/BTEC subject in secondary schools atm
<paln> acperkins: thanks a lot if you can ;)
<shauno> well that's what I mean .. there's no distinction at gcse level
<zleap> i agree, i tried to promote a group for young people a few years ago,  run by young people,  however thje youth worker was more concerered if young people will understand my flyer and what was on it
<paln> yes, just A** to F--
<zleap> try to reach out to techie people via non techies is impossible
<paln> zleap: that's the main issue; some kids are really informed opn the tech world, whereas most atm don't have a clue
<acperkins> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/dec/06/michael-gove-computer-science
<zleap> its the few we need to bring together
<paln> ...they just know how to use the Internet and (hopefully) how to stay safe on it
<paln> zleap: precisely, and I think launchpad is doing a good job at that
<paln> ...we just need more people
<zleap> i will see what i can do in the new year
<paln> social netowkring is already a major part of daily lifestyle, it just needs to rack in those talented few
<paln> zleap: why should all pitch in
<AlanBell> rewired state and young rewired state is great for that
<zleap> it does not help when the national grid for learing (or the south west one) block freenode
<AlanBell> they do really fun hack days
<paln> next week, my schedule's booked with homework
<paln> AlanBell: "rewired"?
<AlanBell> http://youngrewiredstate.org/
<paln> zleap: do they?
<zleap> AlanBell, yeah but we need to promote these things and like i said reaching out to techies via non techies is hard,  if we can bypass the non techies life would be much easier
<paln> oh right, NGfL
<paln> they always cause issues
<paln> AND they managed to block the proxy side of Google Translate
<AlanBell> look carefully and you might spot asenceur and issyl0 int the video
<zleap> paln, they seem to at ourlocal library (its chat)
<paln> so proxy's are a total no-go now :/
<zleap> AlanBell, i know them from DFEY
<AlanBell> DFEY is also great
<zleap> it funny as they block chat via free node but not the chat server the dclug use
<paln> zleap, Google + should start to do a good job with circles
<paln> the people you know are interested can be notified immediately, and then we can cause a chain reasction
<paln> *reaction
<zleap> AlanBell, yeah,  this is what I was trying to promote a while back,  and failed as I had to try to explain to a youth worker about it
<zleap> they are paranoid about online groups
<paln> zleap: that's because they deal with paranoid people most of the time
<zleap> yeah
<paln> (no offence to them)
<paln> but google+ needs to lower their age limit 1st
<paln> it still age>=18
<zleap> i know if I could put a good flyer in a school I would probably find one or two young people like you
<zleap> 18
<shauno> I think that's a simple case of them simply not understanding the medium
<zleap> its usallyu down to governments
<zleap> i know facebook is 13
<paln> hmph, pesky legal
<paln> yep, which is why everyone has it
<shauno> if all you know of online groups, is your never-ending struggle to stop friends posting pictures of you drunk, then you're going to be very wary of any productive value
<paln> but i already have a google account and dont want to make another simply so i can fack my age
<paln> *fake
<paln> shano: im 14
<paln> shauno, see above
<shauno> I mean the people you say are paranoid of online groups
<paln> so that's highly unlikely HAHA :D
<paln> ah, right, that's another matter
 * AlanBell signs up as a YRS mentor https://docs.google.com/a/rewiredstate.org/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dHBBb2psMk1oNXF3MXRlWjVsZG9uTVE6MA#gid=0
<zleap> seaching through the google+ terms and conditions it says "2.3 You may not use the Services and may not accept the Terms if (a) you are not of legal age to form a binding contract with Google, or (b) you are a person barred from receiving the Services under the laws of the United States or other countries including the country in which you are resident or from which you use the Services"
<zleap> not of legal age to form a binding contract with google,  that does not say anyone 13 and above can't use it
<paln> yes, but here in the UK the legal age is actually 16 unless otherwise stated within the Terms of Use and EULA
<paln> that is , afaik
<zleap> hmm, so why can you signup to facebook at 13 here
<zleap> sounds like it does not say in an explicit way and therefore is open to interpretation
<paln> ...unless otherwise stated within the Terms of Use AND EULA
<paln> the Google+ EULA is fine in this country
<zleap> ok
<paln> Terms of Use are universally responsible
<shauno> I really have no idea why plus can't come down to 13 to meet COPPA.  this contract stuff smells like a red herring
<zleap> i know people under 13 can't use IRC or freenode due to US law
<paln> one document for every nation
<paln> whereas the EULA can be specific to a certain area
<paln> Google need to sort out the US legal
<paln> so the age can be lowered universally
<paln> zleap, really? yet another thing i didnt know
<zleap> lol,  you can't sign up to google + due to your age but you can view pages
<paln> does that only apply to the US though (IRC and Freenode)
<paln> zleap: that's what proves the EULA is fine
<zleap> not sure,  are they gonna check
<paln> they being...?
<zleap> freenode
<paln> ah
<zleap> or anyone,
<paln> oh...
<paln> 0
<paln> woops
<shauno> it's any service that provides a uniquely identifable identity (or collects uniquely identifiable data).  as long as the entity falls under US jurisdiction
<paln> shauno: thanks
<zleap> thanks
<paln> cos my 10 year-old cousin uses IRC :D
<zleap> i don't have a problem with that
<shauno> it can go below 13 with parental consent, but the methods for proving it was a parent are fairly difficult to do at scale (besides the creditcard barrier, which introduces hurdles of it's own)
<zleap> i am sure ops don't either,  they DO have a problem with people that are rude, or offensive ,  and I am sure the would rather spend time dealing with people like that than young people here following the rules on behaviour
<zleap> the = they
<paln> shauno: of course
<paln> been there done that
<paln> i've faked being my parents once or twice
<paln> zleap: quite right -- at least, i would hope so
<zleap> from what i have heard ops have a real hard time of it sometimes
<shauno> I moderate on another network, where we try to make as little a deal of it as possible.  unless they're silly enough to tell us their age directly.
<zleap> yeah sound a good policy keep people on your side doing that
<shauno> well, there's no sane way to age-check on irc at all.  but if you find people saying "10/f/florida" in public channels .. I've no hard feelings if they can't reconnect.  probably for their own good.
<zleap> thing is all this goes against the idea that the free software community are open to everyone
<zleap> well asking asl on irc is not apreciated anyway
<shauno> to some extent, it isn't, and I don't think it ever has been
<shauno> it's a meritocracy .. you can travel as far as you like on your own worth.   if your worth is a negative value, you'll still find doors closing in front of you
<zleap> why is it important how old you are,   we are having a fare more intellegent conversation here than other forms of net communication
<zleap> far
<paln> true
<zleap> anyway i have so far created a mini flyer for ubuntu youth, and included one of those QR codes,  on it,
<zleap> so hopefully i can give those out to people
<paln> nice
<zleap> http://www.zleap.net/portfolio.html
<jutnux> Back
<jutnux> I know you all missed me
<zleap> wb
<jutnux> zleap: How old are you?
<zleap> 36
<jutnux> Ah
<jutnux> Did you found the Ubuntu Youth thing?
<AlanBell> it is a good age to be :)
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> yeah, google search
<zleap> basically so I could grab the graphics and promote it a little
<jutnux> Guess I better join the channel :-P
<zleap> that was quick
<zleap>  /join #ubuntu-youth  I think
<jutnux> Yeah I just restarted XChat.
<zleap> ok
<zleap> to add to problems, local library don't like flyers with links to chat rooms either,   i just wondered if young people are faced with the same barriers when promoting stuff
<jutnux> I can't promote anything
<jutnux> People don't trust kids
<shauno> I know email is the last bastion of old farts, but have you considered a mailing lists like google groups offers?  You can have a fully transparent archive that way, which is probably more parent-friendly
<jutnux> The problem is that most children use parents / their own laptops and the maintainer wont let them change naything.
<jutnux> anything.
<jutnux> If the libraries provided an ubuntu machine this might change.
<zleap> the only library i have seen running linux is one in georgetown ontario, i only noticed due to seeing an gtk error message on the screen
<zleap> well the mailing list for ubuntu-uk is archived publically I think
<AlanBell> it is
<shauno> it is, but I don't think mailman is the most user-friendly beast out there
<shauno> if you're looking for people with techie parents, sure
<AlanBell> shame the raspberry pi won't run Ubuntu
<zleap> yeah
<AlanBell> however it will run python and other stuff
<zleap> but it is still running Linux
<zleap> which is a good thing,
<jutnux> Do you reckon someone will hack together a version of Ubuntu for the PI?
<zleap> probbaly
<zleap> gcc should be able to compile it for arm
<zleap> i guess
<AlanBell> nope
<shauno> from what I gather, it's a fairly large amount of work
<zleap> that has never stopped people, they do it for the challenge
<jutnux> I'm going to get one just to use round other people's houses.
<jutnux> And school, I wonder if that'll work :-P
<zleap> :)
<AlanBell> because there is stuff in Ubuntu that uses stuff in the ARMv7 instruction set and the pi has ARMv6
<zleap> well hopefully schools will get them
<jutnux> Nah
<AlanBell> anyway, Ubuntu wouldn't run well on it, even if it did work a bit
<AlanBell> it would also set the wrong expectations for the device
<jutnux> Anyone know what OS it is running?
<jutnux> Or is it just CLI?
<shauno> I believe schools getting them is one of the larger end-goals.  the primary goal is to get enough traction that someone wants to underwrite it first
<AlanBell> it will run fedora and debian and various other builds of operating systems
<jutnux> Debian \o/
<shauno> eg, right now it's a bbc micro without the bbc :/
<AlanBell> the main storage is just an SD card so very swappable
<jutnux> Sounds amazing
<AlanBell> shauno: they really really want to fix that
<zleap> and the expansion boards look cool too
<jutnux> No bigger than a credit card too!
<zleap> thing is even though its not running ubuntu,  we can still help them with stuff,  esp if its running debian,  as the packaging system is the same
<AlanBell> yeah, it could run a lot of common stuff that is in Ubuntu
<AlanBell> but don't expect to use it as a desktop computer
<AlanBell> it is a tinkering toy
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> i just hope that it does well, and gets people interested in development
<AlanBell> I think it was a great decision to ship it without a box to cover up the clever bits
<zleap> or hacking in the old sense
<zleap> if I get one will probbaly see if I can take it in to the after school club i work at, they have a tv in reception classs they use for the WII,  so maybe i can get the kids playing tux racing or something
<jutnux> I'm going to get one
<jutnux> and feel like a major badass.
<jutnux> You know what's funny
<zleap> if anything it will get through to people there is ANOTHER operating system out there other than windows and mac
<jutnux> Wikipedia domains are on GoDaddy.
<zleap> jutnux, that could be interesting
<zleap> esp if they decide to move
<jutnux> There's a reddit post with 700 comments
<zleap> I just get the impression that most people are not aware of it,  and if they are they do not understand it enough,  those of us that do understnad it either do something or like us in the UK can't do much
<jutnux> StackOverflow is moving away from GoDaddy.
<zleap> a lot of people are
<zleap> but this mass migration away needs to be on public forums so the rest of the population see it
<mattt> what's the deal w/ godaddy?
<shauno> I disagree with that to a large extent
<zleap> they support SOPA
<mattt> oh
<zleap> hence people are moving their domains away from them
<AlanBell> I just got a domain renewal thingie from godaddy for votegeek.org.uk
<AlanBell> might try out the domain migration on that
<zleap> sounds good, and tell em why
<jutnux> NSFW: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/31/bob-parsons-godaddy-ceo-elephant-hunt_n_843121.html
<zleap> maybe it will get the message to some suit at the top they are misguided
<shauno> the huge problem is that far too many people who are actually calling the shots, don't "get" the internet at all.  making more noise online isn't all it's cracked up to be in this case
<zleap> i found the anonomous thing on you tube basically saying they know everything about the people that support SOPA and will act,   I think 2012 could be a really interesting year
<shauno> focussing on godaddy has the potential to pull one name off the support's list.  that really only affects godaddy, not SOPA
<jutnux> GoDaddy will probably change their mindset.
<zleap> its not just go daddy that users are pulling away from if another hosting company is supporting SOPA then related projects or groups will pull from them too
<zleap> jutnux, yeah but at what cost to them
<jutnux> zleap: Well if they don't move they're going to lose lots o' money.
<shauno> but how much does that trickle down to the people debating the bill?  convincing one small business owner to call their local representative, makes a lot more difference than convincing 1000 people to move their domains away from one SOPA supporter
<shauno> I fear people are getting distracted fighting the wrong fights
<zleap> what i meant was teven if they back down, the damage could be done,  people may lose trust in them and go elsewhere,  and then tell others
<zleap> shauno, well any action is better than nothing,  but you are right,  i think there is other action being taken that is similar its just not gettingi on to forums
<jutnux> shauno: People in the UK cannot do much so they can boycott the companies that support it.
<shauno> the reps that 'get' the online response are almost all already on the right side.  the real fight is offline
<zleap> and write to MPs urgening them to reject similar acts here
<zleap> urging
<popey> jutnux: not true
<popey> i have contacted US senators before âº
<popey> and some reply âº
<MartijnVdS> popey: "You're not in my constituency. Shut up."?
<popey> hah
<jutnux> Oh right.
<jutnux> Why does my Cat hide underneath my bed :-(
<shauno> I have an SSN & a zipcode.  they'd actually have a fairly unreasonable time proving I'm not local
<shauno> unfortunately I have handwriting that makes doctors look educated, so I tend to shy from these things lest it be mistaken for some abstract art / death threat
<zleap> well british citizens can write to the US senators when it comes to things like the death penalty,  so why not this
<MartijnVdS> your handwriting looks like mismatched letters cut from magazines?
<shauno> it's got bad enough, that my signature on the postman's touchscreen thing is actually pretty accurate
<zleap> I am sure that is happening in the case of gary Mckinnon (or what ever his name is)
<shauno> outside of a restraining order, I'm fairly sure you can contact anyone, to some extent.  it just holds more weight if you're local .. or better yet, employ locals
<zleap> yeah
<shauno> (or even better .. spend obscene amounts of money "lobbying"
<popey> zleap: thats very different he's a british citizen
<paln> what happened in the last ten minutes?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I wish I had obscene amounts of money :(
<paln> my internet went down
<zleap> I know but people are still writing to the US congress about it
<popey> lots
<zleap> yeah lots
<popey> !logs | paln
<lubotu3> paln: Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
 * MartijnVdS has shiny magnets
<zleap> we are dicussing SOPA and if we can write to US congress / senators about it
<zleap> among other things
<jutnux> Along with the GoDaddy boycott
<zleap> yeah
<shauno> I'm all for raising awareness online; I just think that poking americans to contact their rep should be the default position, rather than just trying to see how many you can roll into a relatively localized boycot
<shauno> "if you have a rep, do $this.  If you don't, spread the word to someone who does"
<shauno> else you just end up with a bunch of sabre-rattling on various online forums, and all the disconnected old men discussing the bill are (literally) none-the-wiser
<paln> jutnux: who's boycotting GoDaddy and why?
<jutnux> paln: Reddit, Imgur, ICanHazCheezburger
<jutnux> Loads of other companies.
<jutnux> Hopefully wikipedia
<zleap> I iwll be bakc laer
<paln> but why???
<popey> paln: google + godaddy boycott + sopa
<MooDoo> paln: because godady support sopa
<zleap> back later
<shauno> this time, because they're publically supporting SOPA.  the time before this, it was something to do with the owner shooting rhinos.  the time before that, was because all their advertising seemed to occur on tightly-fitting tanktops.  godaddy are no stranger to controversy
<popey> lets not go through this all over again
<paln> ah...that makes them fools
<MooDoo> :D
<paln> really?
<paln> i always thought they were alright
<paln> i agree, you've got it logged
<paln> i can read over
<paln> it
<shauno> they're the walmart of domain registrations.  for everything they get wrong, the price is right.
<paln> haha
<paln> please dont say Wal-Mart
<paln> we have Asda
<jutnux> Asda \o/
<paln> even though they own it
<paln> :/
<shauno> I never found asda to be anywhere near as despicable tho :)
<paln> why do people contantly use "\o/" on IRC but nowhere else?
<AlanBell> we moved all our domains to godaddy because we got screwed over by uklinux.net which kind of folded and the owners just gave up on it
<paln> is it just unknown to the outside world?
<paln> shauno: fair enough, i guess
<AlanBell> wanted to move our domains to somewhere big that specialised in domains
<jutnux> namecheap
<paln> AlanBell: good choice, you dont' want to be registered with someone who'll just give up /ignore their members after a month or two :D
<paln> plus, GoDaddy tends too be pretty cheap at times
<jutnux> These other hosts are loving the new way to get business
<paln> brb
<jutnux> "Use the code STOPGODADDY to get 20% off today!"
<AlanBell> name.com looked OK from a cursory inspection this morning
<shauno> I like ghandi, but they kinda fail on pricing
<christel> i have a fair few domains with godaddy, i also have some with gandi
<AlanBell> also godaddy is getting more and more annoying with their attempts to upsell stuff to you
<paln> im bak :/
<christel> i like gandi, but as many have pointed out, godaddy tends to win on price
<paln> that was ridiculously quick
<AlanBell> I am not particularly price sensitive, it isn't many domains
<paln> jutnux: (Y)
<christel> gandi are decent, and you can harass them in #gandi! gotta love the french
<christel> they're also Mad about FOSS
<christel> :)
<shauno> gandi won out for me on technical grounds; they were the only big-name registrar I could find that let me put ipv6 entries in my NS glue
<AlanBell> I have 16 domains at godaddy
<paln> AlanBell: whoa
<paln> who needs that many sites?
<AlanBell> some I don't need, they were for old projects
<paln> albeit, you do run a major part of ubuntu-UK
<shauno> Mr Cheeseburger apparently has 1000+ he's holding over their heads.  I found that rather disturbing
<paln> shauno, uh...wtf?
<shauno> the chap behind 'icanhazcheeseburger'
<AlanBell> ASTORYFORBEDTIME.COM GIVEHUGS.NET LIBERTUS.CO.UK NAKEDCOMPUTERS.ORG OSITIVE.CO.UK OSITIVE.COM PLANETA11Y.ORG POLYFRIENDS.ORG.UK SOFTWAREFREEDOM.BIZ STROLL2SCHOOL.COM STROLLTOSCHOOL.COM THEOPENLEARNINGCENTRE.COM VOTEGEEK.ORG.UK WEBBOOKBLOG.COM WEBBOOKHQ.COM WEBBOOKHQ.ORG
<paln> yea, i kno who he is but why would he have so many
<paln> ???
<shauno> I assume it's either a profitable tactic to have as many spammy lolcatz sites as possible
<shauno> or he has an issue with vodka+impulse shopping
<paln> just to redirect you to the main URL haha :D
<AlanBell> people get them for ideas they think of and keep them rather than let them go
<AlanBell> some of mine never got used
<AlanBell> ositive was a possible company name, but we ended up with libertus
<AlanBell> givehugs.net hasn't been implemented yet
<shauno> I have some that never got used, but convincing my webhost suddenly fail at comprehension when I try to stop renewing them without cancelling my service altogether
<shauno> (that was a sentence in my head. sorry - long day)
<christel> aww givehugs.net
<paln> shauno, no wonder it made no sense to me
<christel> how sweet
<popey> 17:15:21 < paln> why do people contantly use "\o/" on IRC but nowhere else?
<kvarley> Does anybody know of any software which can read from a USB OBDII device? OBDII is a connector system for cars which lets you view faults and realtime information.
<popey> do it on skype
<popey> see what happens
<popey> kvarley: google probably does
<jutnux> Skype <3
<shauno> popey: hopefully not much.  It'd be rather rude for people to comment on his tourettes'
<popey> eh?
<shauno> if someone used \o/ as punctuation in person, that'd be my first suspicion
<paln> popey: i know what it is
<christel> i frequently throw my hands up in the air irl
<paln> i just dont see it often
<christel> both in glee and frustration!
<paln> in fact, only on IRC
<directhex> like you just don't care?
<popey> paln: i didnt say you didnt know what it was
<christel> directhex: haha <3
<paln> its like its only used here
<popey> paln: my point was it is used on skype too
<paln> ah
<paln> hehe sorry
<christel> AlanBell: give me all your hugs
<popey> hence me saying 'do it on skype see what happens'
<christel> and tell me about your poly friends, are any of them cute and may i borrow them
<popey> you get an animated man
<shauno> ah, I thought you meant on camera. Now I see why my response was odd
<paln> popey: really? that's unusual
<daubers> I GOT MY PHONE BACK FROM THE MENDERS!!!!!
<paln> would you rather learn to program by starting with code and then moving on to writing GUI apps, or writing GUI apps in a simple way and then examining the concepts in setail afterwards?
<daubers> \o/
<paln> daubers: what phone?
 * daubers waits for it to update
<paln> e
<AlanBell> christel: *hugs*
<daubers> n900 goes back in the cupboard of DOOM!
<AlanBell> run out now
<shauno> paln, I tend to find a real-world problem I want to fix, and work backwards from there.  If I've no motication to see/use the end results, it gets old quickly
<christel> \o/
 * christel hugs AlanBell 
<AlanBell> christel: polyfriends was an elgg social networking site for St Polycarps
<christel> i appaear to have 110 domains with godaddy
<AlanBell> never quite got going though
<christel> AlanBell: oh! i assumed there was er, less networking and more key swapping based on the domain name
 * christel blushes
<AlanBell> givehugs.net will be cool
<AlanBell> christel: nope, I am sweet and innocent
<daubers> heh
<popey> LIES
<christel> my dreams, all shattered yet again!
 * christel tickles AlanBell 
<AlanBell> nakedcomputers.org is also sweeter and more innocent than it might sound to the uninitiated
<christel> yeah? what's the plan for givehugs? :)
<christel> is it like flattr but with more hugs?
<AlanBell> it will be a non-evil "like" button
<AlanBell> or a +1 button
<christel> ooh
<jutnux> Just make it +o
<jutnux> or +<>
<christel> nono, \o/
 * christel hides
 * popey just realised he's out in AlanBell's neck of the woods this evening
<AlanBell> orly?
<christel> popey: oooh?
<shauno> I'm a little miffed that I'm finally in the UK next week, and HazRPG is leaving the country 6 hours before I get there
<paln> shauno, haha
<paln> :D
<paln> unlucky much?
<shauno> I'm not sure there's luck involved.  I think he planned it.
<popey> http://g.co/maps/8f446  <- there
<paln> shauno, no unlucky that you're arriving a little late :P
<paln> i find it funny that there are so many people on this channel yet only 8 people are actually talking
<christel> popey: lobster pot?
<AlanBell> popey: that pub has the worst B&B rooms in the world
<christel> it is also 200 metres from my house
<christel> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<christel> be afraid
<christel> be very afraid popey
<christel> ;)
<AlanBell> ooh, maybe it isn't the one I thought it was, not stayed there
<paln> christel: lol maybe not by coincidence
<jutnux> Naked Scientist show \o/
<monsterwizard> wait what?
<christel> AlanBell: we should go be obnoxious at the table next to popey and just accidentally bump into him
 * christel nods
<shauno> that can't be safe.  Eye protection, people!
<monsterwizard> jutnux where?
<paln> what are we even discussing at this point?
<paln> i didnt see anyone change the subject
<popey> paln: please.
 * paln is confused :S
<shauno> naked scientists and popey's lobster.  sometimes, clarification isn't all it's cracked up to be
<jutnux> Naked Scientists is a podcast.
<jutnux> A good one too!
<paln> popey's lobster???
<paln> even more confused :D
<popey> i like naked scientists
<paln> jutnux, might check it out
 * popey kicks gpodder
 * jutnux is using gPodder \o/
<AlanBell> could someone remove this picture of Brian Cox from my mind please
<jutnux> The mullet one?
<monsterwizard> why?
<monsterwizard> that guy is awesome
<monsterwizard> and sexy :o
<christel> AlanBell: is this one of brian cox wearing nothing but a lobster?
<popey> https://gpodder.net/
<popey> we're in the top 10 :D
<christel> (could be worse, could be alan cox wearing nothing but a lobster)
<paln> #8
 * AlanBell thinks "wearing nothing but a lobster" could be meme-worthy
<monsterwizard> is gpodder good?
<monsterwizard> Does it actually update?
<popey> http://gpodder.net/user/popey/subscriptions   <- my subscriptions
<popey> yes monsterwizard
<paln> AlanBell: maybe it could be a meme
<monsterwizard> I'm having trouble finding a good podcast catcher
<popey> get gpodder, it is good
<AlanBell> wow, never knew there were so many podcasts
<kvarley> popey: Found some software written in python which should work, I will also be able to use CLI tools =] Gonna be saving some cash and avoiding the drive to the garage, win win!
<popey> yay
<popey> AlanBell: this is where itunes is great for podcast discovery
<monsterwizard> wow that's a huge list
<popey> handy to have it sync the list up to the site
<jutnux> I just downloaded Popey's list from his blog and added some of my own
<paln> i reall need to get into the community
<paln> *really
<paln> kind of feel on my own :(
<shauno> you're missing The Bugle!
<popey> http://www.thebuglepodcast.com/ ?
<shauno> that's the one  (altho they're shedding The Times in the very near future)
 * popey adds http://podcast.timesonline.co.uk/rss/thebuglemp3.rss ta
<monsterwizard> if i delete all the possible epidoses will it still update for newer episodes?
<jutnux> What is the bugle?
<popey> yes
<monsterwizard> cool
<popey> jutnux: look up about 4 lines
<jutnux> Oh yes
<shauno> it's a weekly (well, most weeks) rip-on-the-news type comedy, which ers on the side of complete absurdity
<popey> excellent
<popey> i quite like andy z
<popey> prefer his sister tho
<Seeker`> popey: would you like him better if he were wearing nothing but a lobster?
<shauno> I don't like this meme anymore.  make the bad man stop!
 * shauno googles unicorns
<jutnux> Is Brian Cox on the naked scientists?
<jutnux> Sounds like him
<popey> no jutnux
<popey> they say their names at the start of the show!
<MartijnVdS> also, Brian Cox has quite a recognisable accent
<AlanBell> what is a good thing to associate with mp3 and ogg files that just plays the things? Banshee isn't what I want and now I have it launching podcasts in audacity
<MartijnVdS> totem
<MartijnVdS> vlc
<popey> gstreamer :D
<popey> yeah, I'd go with totem
<MartijnVdS> gst-launch 8-)
<popey> thassim
<MartijnVdS> popey++
<shauno> I really want to say quicktime, but I think I've been not-funny enough for one day
<monsterwizard> moive player
<popey> is that like moire player?
<popey> or moria player?
<MartijnVdS> moria playa?
<popey> i now have a sip phone on my desk
<popey> it works, and I love it
<monsterwizard> it plays mp3s ust as well as video files
<MartijnVdS> popey: I have one as well. It's my Android phone ;)
<popey> heh
<popey> this is a cisco thingy
<popey> 7940
<MartijnVdS> I used to have a Grandstream one
<MartijnVdS> but I never used it
<popey> i want to put the 24 ringtone on it
<AlanBell> with totem can you turn off the image window to make it just player controls? I turned off the visualisation but that just shows a clapperboard
<popey> mine is connected to sipgate and canonical, works really nicely
<popey> AlanBell: press h and then press 0
<popey> oh, oyther way round
<AlanBell> yeah, opposite of that :)
<popey> you can do it with vlc :D
<MartijnVdS> you can do it with gst-launch
<popey> and vlc has a santa hat on the cone which makes it better than totem
<AlanBell> vlc is looking like the favourite
<MartijnVdS> or write a small .html with a video tag, and open it in chrome --kiosk
<zleap> back
<MartijnVdS> (am I overthinking this?)
<shauno> MartijnVdS: that might explain why you think perl is normal :p
<shauno> points for the most convoluted way to open an ogg
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I don't need my brain anymore to write Perl
<zleap> yeah vlc does that every year nice fun feature
<popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/omg-5-five-lightweight-music-players/
<AlanBell> ok, so I like vlc, now how do I get the file associations fixed?
<shauno> MartijnVdS: switch your keyboard to dvorak, and let your cat write it for you :)
<popey> right click, properties, open with
<popey> highlight the app, 'set as default'
<MartijnVdS> for each file type
<MartijnVdS> separately
<popey> video and audio is broken for me on 12.04
<AlanBell> aah, that is the key, did it for ogg and this podcast is an mp3
<popey> every video skips at like twice speed
<popey> in flash and vlc
<MartijnVdS> popey: saves time. Feature.
<popey> i blame pulseuaudio
<popey> LEEEENAAAAAAAAAAAART!
<shauno> I wonder if patenting this feature would get it fixed quicker
<zleap> yeah it would probably end up removed
<jutnux> popey: Ubuntu 12.04 died on my desktop
<popey> same here âº
<popey> had to reboot
<MartijnVdS> It died for me too,but slowly
<jutnux> I had to put 11.10 back on
<popey> blimey
<MartijnVdS> only udisks.. then the USB subsystem
<popey> thats drastic
<MartijnVdS> after a reboot everything was fine
<paln> back again
<MartijnVdS> paln: we can see that, no need to announce it every time :)
<jutnux> How rude MartijnVdS
<AlanBell> not a bit of it, MartijnVdS was being helpful
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: I like to treat the "[ person has joined ]" messages as implicit greetings
<shauno> hence the tactical smiley
<jutnux> I saw no such message
<jutnux> Perhaps it is just me :-P
 * AlanBell wonders whether it will stop raining
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: also, I can /ignore those if I want less noise on my screen
<jutnux> I was joking by the way...
<AlanBell> jutnux: yeah, different clients turn them on and off, generally they get a bit annoying so I divert them all to a separate window
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: What kind of time frame were you thinking of?
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: in a walking to a pub on the other side of town timeframe
<paln> MartijnVdS: just saying :/ 'cause i was just away
<paln> not offline
<shauno> there goes the Ice Age prediction :/
<MartijnVdS> Isn't that why the British invented umbrellas and the raincoat?
<MartijnVdS> paln: no problem :) You're new to irc, still learning (I guess?)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: First, the rain age. THEN the ice age.
<paln> of course MartijnVdS
<shauno> I've been in Ireland since 2006.  I believe this _is_ the Rain Age
<paln> jutnux: you didnt get a notification cause there was no need
<paln> i didnt come back online as i was never offline, just idle
<paln> shauno: haha
 * MartijnVdS watches(!) a marathon radio broadcast for charity
<paln> you're /watching/ the radio?
<MartijnVdS> paln: yes :) Dutch radio is awesome like that ;)
 * paln is very bored tonight
 * jutnux is too
<MartijnVdS> paln: try this in totem/vlc: http://livestreams.omroep.nl/npo/3fm_vsr-bb (might not work outside .nl but you can try)
 * paln needs to get into the Linux community more
<AlanBell> http://harvest.ubuntu.com/ < boredom fixed \o/
<paln> MartijnVdS: now I see how you're watching the radio
<MartijnVdS> paln: we have a "red button"-like channel as well
<paln> MartijnVdS: cool
<MartijnVdS> paln: which shows that on "normal" TVs
<paln> AlanBell: trying it now
<paln> MartijnVdS: awesome
<paln> MartijnVdS: so you're in the Netherlands, I presume?
<MartijnVdS> I am, yes
<paln> MartijnVdS: are your from the UK though?
<MartijnVdS> paln: no
<paln> MartijnVdS: what's your reason for being on #ubuntu-uk
<paln> just so there's a bigger audience, or...?
<MartijnVdS> paln: because people on #ubuntu-nl don't know what they're doing (or didn't a few years ago anyway :)
<paln> MartijnVdS: ah, alright
<paln> AlanBell: How do you sign in to Ubuntu Harvest using your Launchpad?
<AlanBell> paln: really not too sure, kind of just worked for me
<AlanBell> I have not really used harvest, only saw it for the first time a few days ago
<jutnux> I want to start working on bugs
<paln> AlanBell: I dont' have any bugs, so the boredom still lies within me
<jutnux> I seem to start on one then do something else
<paln> jutnux: Similar issue with me
<AlanBell> testing things and reporting bugs is good to do as well
<paln> ...I get into something, then forget about it for a month or two
<AlanBell> and testing stuff with orca the screenreader is really interesting
<paln> Orca has NEVER worked for me
<paln> I guess I just don't know how to use it
<AlanBell> it isn't easy!
<paln> Is there speech recognition at all for Linux / Ubuntu?
<paln> I find it handy in Windows; I use it really often
<bigcalm> Ask the Software Centre?
<AlanBell> very little. There are two recognition engines, CMUSphinx and Julius
<AlanBell> and there is something called simon-listens which uses Julius and is a pretty decent command recognition tool for controlling the desktop
<AlanBell> continuous speech dictation doesn't really work at all
<paln> bigcalm: unfortunately no results
<paln> AlanBell: that's a shame
<AlanBell> it is a really really hard problem
<paln> I think I saw a site for submitting sound samples of sentences somewhere...can't remember where though!
<paln> Found it on Google: VoxForge
<paln> They simply collect samples of sentences being said in different dialects
<paln> They even divide English into various accents :D
<AlanBell> http://www.godaddy.com/newscenter/release-view.aspx?news_item_id=378
<gordonjcp> paln: well that's kind of handy
<gordonjcp> paln: I always think it's funny when Americans talk about someone having a "British accent"
<paln> gordonjcp: yeah
<paln> It's even funnier when a British guy imitates an American putting on a British accent
<gordonjcp> paln: well Americans mostly seem to end up doing some ridiculous Dick van Dyke cockney thing
<paln> gordonjcp: That, or enunciating "Harry Potter"
<gordonjcp> never mind accent, I don't even speak the same language as most of the people in this channel
<MartijnVdS> 'arry po'eh
<MartijnVdS> paln: like that? :)
<gordonjcp> oh christ glottal stops
<gordonjcp> they give me the rage
<gordonjcp> "glo'ul stops"
<gordonjcp> <STAB>
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: haha :)
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: wa'uh
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: jeez, I was in London last week
<paln> pretty much, yeah
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: yeah they do it a lot there :)
<gordonjcp> I could understand the French staff in the hotel far more easily than I could understand the locals
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: in fairness you would get subtitles if you were on the BBC :)
<paln> gordonjcp: why wouldn't you be able to understand the French -- it's their language -- Americans just try to be different Englishmen
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: I have quite frequently been on the BBC
<paln> AlanBell: I put on subtitles all the time; it's a habit
 * MartijnVdS turns on subtitles for his irc window
<gordonjcp> I don't really have much of an accent at all, having grown up with one parent with an RP accent and one with a bit of a public school accent
<paln> MartijnVdS: that's ridonkulous, IRC is composed of subtitles
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: a lot of people here think I sound English; it seems to be very roughly 50:50 between English and Scottish
<gordonjcp> then there are the weird outliers
<paln> why is every twitter username I want taken?
<paln> paln is taken
<gordonjcp> lots of people think I am Norwegian, and a couple think I sound Canadian
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Yorkshireites?
<MartijnVdS> (Yorkshirians?)
<paln> MartijnVdS: lol :D
<paln> The Yorkshish
<MartijnVdS> Yorksheesh
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I don't know what they think I sound like
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: you do speak very clearly, but I think quite a recognisable scottish accent
<paln> AlanBell: you know gordonjcp in person?
<christel> bloody scots impersonating norwegians at every opportunity
<AlanBell> yeah, he camped in my garden for a few days :)
<paln> AlanBell: seriously?
<AlanBell> christel: I always thought you were scottish ;)
<christel> AlanBell: hahaha
<paln> christel: where did you come from??? :P
<gordonjcp> christel: :-p
<popey> https://gist.github.com/1505483
<dwatkins> let it /dev/snow
<paln> popey: awesome
<paln> dwatkins: haha :D
<paln> AlanBell: what was this about an Ubuntu Youth channel earlier?
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/snow.png
<paln> when ~jutnux was here
<paln> popey: I think I'll do that on my tty
<mattt> lolz: http://www.godaddy.com/newscenter/release-view.aspx?news_item_id=378&isc=smtwsup
<jutnux> I am still here.
<jutnux> Have you got a vps popey?
<popey> i have
<jutnux> Who is your provider? :-)
<popey> bitfolk
<paln> popey: I get an error with your script for snowy terminal:
<paln> /home/paln97/snowy.sh: line 2: syntax error near unexpected token `('
<paln> /home/paln97/snowy.sh: line 2: `<!-- saved from url=(0089)https://raw.github.com/gist/1505483/d2d063f0bb3252b201b731fe665f21b93e7867dc/gistfile1.sh -->'
<MartijnVdS> bytemark for me
<popey> jutnux: i highly recommend bitfolk âº
<mattt> rackspace for me :P
<jutnux> I will have a look at both :-)
<bigcalm> popey: would you recommend somebody for server monitoring and updating?
<paln> mattt, hahahahahahaha! goDaddy has finally seen the light!!!
<jutnux> Link?!
<paln> http://www.godaddy.com/newscenter/release-view.aspx?news_item_id=378&isc=smtwsup
<mattt> paln: yeh, just saw that on hacker news
<paln> mattt, i know i clicked your link ;)
 * popey is going out
<popey> ttfn
<zleap> paln, ubuntu youth is for young people so they have their own area set up by young people i guess
<paln> popey, i got an error with your snowy terminal script!
<paln> zleap: ah cool, thz for the info zleap
<zleap> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuYouth
<zleap> np
<zleap> best to hang out in several channels this channel is always pretty active
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Is it just me? Or did it just get awful quiet? - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=34
<zleap> brb
<dwatkins> I hang out in about 7 channels
<paln> whats the channel name for UY?
<paln> dw, found it
<paln> its #ubuntu-youth
<jutnux> No one talks in it haha
<MartijnVdS> because it's past bedtime?
<MartijnVdS> or because they're all out partying?
<dwatkins> Well it is Friday night...
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: could still be either :)
<paln> jutnux: i realised that
<paln> MartijnVdS: they've probably fallen asleep /whilst/ partying :P
<paln> dwatkins: I didn't realise it was Friday -- I though it was Wednesday
<dwatkins> wow, you must be on holiday
<paln> I'm slow today :/
<paln> nope, at home
<paln> hardly ever go on holiday
<dwatkins> I mean not at school/work etc.
<paln> just lazy this week
<paln> it being holidays and all
<paln> dwatkins: oh right...then yea, as i said above
<paln> Hey guys, is there any way to change your Launchpad username?
<paln> Launchpad ID
<dwatkins> You probably can't, but you could always just register a new one.
<jutnux> You can I think.
<jutnux> Just click on your name
<jutnux> then change the settings
<jutnux> Ugh
<jutnux> got family coming round
<paln> jutnux: there's no pencil next to Launchpad ID
<paln> just email etc.
<jutnux> oh
<paln> dwatkins: too much hassle for me :D
<jutnux> make a new id then
<paln> or can you assign different ids to the same e-mail?
<zleap> you can change the display name
<zleap> goto change details
<AlanBell> you can merge two launchpad accounts
<paln> i found a way to change it anyway
<paln> rather than there being an edit button next to LP ID
<paln> there is one where it says "Change details"
 * zleap just said that
 * paln is sorry for not seeing zleap's statement
<zleap> np
<paln> ;)
<zleap> :)
<paln> What to discuss now?
<zleap> dunno
<paln> How do you create /public/ PGP keys???
<paln> I can only seem to conjure up private ones :/
<Nafallo> paln: private ones usually comes with a public counterpart.
<paln> Nafallo: any knowledge on how you access them?
<paln> I generated mine in "Passwords and Keys" in Ubuntu 11.10
<Nafallo> paln: what are you trying to achieve?
<zleap> pgp keys are in two parts  private and public
<paln> Trying to generate a PGP key to push to the Ubuntu Key server so I can sign the Code of Conduct on Launchpad
<AlanBell> there are some good step by step tutorials on that
<AlanBell> http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/2010/12/22/004-SigningCoC
<paln> I'm on this page: https://launchpad.net/~paln/+editpgpkeys
<paln> AlanBell: thanks for the URL
<Nafallo> paln: gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys <your key id>
<zleap> if you have a gpg key already download the code of conduct and as far as I am aware you do pgp --clearsign  code of conduct.txt  and you end up with code of confuct.asc whichis the signed one,  which you paste in to the box
<paln> Nafallo: thx but no worries now...I think
<zleap> you enter your private key to sign it
<paln> you too zleap :)
<zleap> ok np
<zleap> wow, godaddy has pulled support for SOPA (google+)
<zleap> 24 hours since boycott was suggested
<Nafallo> heh. loads of people migrated from them, right? :-)
<zleap> or were talking about it
<Nafallo> I saw some of the tweets :-)
<jutnux> I think it'll still go ahead
<paln> got two errors whilst sync'ing PGP keys
<paln> jutnux: most likely
<paln> Couldn't retrieve keys from server: keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371 "Couldn't communicate with server 'keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371': Internal Server Error"
<paln> ...and...
 * TheOpenSourcerer says have have a great Christmas as he is now off to wrap and watch telly and probably not online much now till next week.
<paln> Couldn't retrieve keys from server:pool.sks-keyservers.net "Couldn't communicate with server 'pool.sks-keyservers.net': OK"
<paln> any help?
<monsterwizard> can someone recommend some motivational songs#?
<paln> Nafallo: got any advice?
<zleap> we will rock you
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ha GoDaddy drops support for SOPA: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/12/victory-boycott-forces-godaddy-to-drop-its-support-for-sopa.ars
<gordonjcp> monsterwizard: I always feel pretty motivated when I listen to Minor Threat - Straight Edge
<monsterwizard> I'll give it a go
<Nafallo> paln: local firewall?
<paln> dont' have a firewall
<gordonjcp> monsterwizard: here you go -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmFHLptvauU
<monsterwizard> cheers
<gordonjcp> it's quite short, you might need to play it a couple of times before it works
<gordonjcp> if it doesn't work right away try again with it louder
<MartijnVdS> woo, finally installed vnc on my windows box
<monsterwizard> lol less than 60 secs
<paln> Nafallo: can't find any help online :/
<paln> MartijnVdS: VNC irritates me on Windows
<paln> Remote Desktop on Ubuntu is a lot less hassle
<paln> soooo much easier
<paln> but congrats! :D
<paln> can anyone else help me?
<paln> getting an error upon trying to sync my PGP key with the Ubuntu keyserver
<paln> Couldn't retrieve keys from server: keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371 "Couldn't communicate with server 'keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371': Internal Server Error"
<paln> and
<AlanBell> paln: the problem might well be on the server side
<paln> Couldn't retrieve keys from server:pool.sks-keyservers.net "Couldn't communicate with server 'pool.sks-keyservers.net': OK"
<paln> AlanBell: thought so, but im hoping its on mine so i can do it :P
<AlanBell> the server is up http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/
<gordonjcp> I can't get tired of this -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KvxOuC7Bhc
<paln> the key server list i have lists fkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/
<paln> the difference being "fkp://"
<MartijnVdS> that's just the protocol
<paln> MartijnVdS: alrightey then
<zleap> i have it as hkp here
<MartijnVdS> hkp sounds better
<zleap> i just looked on my password and encryption keys
<paln> i think it is hkp actually
<paln> i mean on my side too
<zleap> HTTP Keyserver Protocol (HKP)
<paln> dw, tried again and they sync'd
<zleap> :)
<paln> now i just have to wait for Launchpad to recognise my key :?
<paln> :/
<paln> more waiting
 * paln yawns
<zleap> hmm according  to click its using ubuntu
<paln> zleap, what's using Ubuntu?
<paln> the Raspberry Pi?
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/9504208.stm
<zleap> but what is in the back ground is not ubuntu
<paln> according to om ubuntu its using ubuntu
<paln> *omg ubuntu
<zleap> hmm
<paln> it was lubuntu on the screen wasnt it?
<zleap> not sure i think it was a kde desktop
<paln> it had lxde
<paln> im watching the vid now
<zleap> yeah its something DE
<zleap> oddly we said here it was arm 7 and click are saying arm 11
<zleap> it runs fedora and debian
<paln> i have that copy of tomb raider
<paln> !!!
<zleap> :)
 * zleap has lots of spectrum games
<brobostigon> HIGNFY on in a minute, bbc1.
<paln> i think kids that are interested and know this stuff should opt in to become tutors for Comp Sci
 * paln doesn't know what a Spectrum is :S
 * paln ws surprised to see a Commodore 64, though!
<paln> *was
<paln> AW, THE TWO RONNIES WAS ON!!!! hopefully on iPlayer
<zleap> the spectrum was the better of the two
 * zleap ducks and hides
<zleap> it did show a spectrum ]
<paln> yea but i'd never heard of them
<zleap> but they showed the 48k (rubber key one)
<zleap> http://www.worldofspectrum.org/
<zleap> :)
 * brobostigon has one of those upstairs stored away.
<jutnux> Back
<MartijnVdS> Time to wash your best black clothes? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-philip/8976636/Prince-Philip-undergoes-precautionary-tests-after-suffering-chest-pains.html
 * paln is having dinner now
 * paln will be back soon!
<zleap> k
<jutnux> ok
<zleap> hi feisar
<feisar> zleap: hi
<zleap> how are you
<feisar> good cheers, you?
<zleap> i am good
<feisar> sorry I'm not sure I can remember, have we chatted much before?
<zleap> don't think so
<feisar> oh that's fine : )
<MartijnVdS> Alcohol \o/
<feisar> hi MartijnVdS
<feisar> I too have had a couple of mulled wines...
<feisar> so what are you guys up to?
<zleap> not much
<feisar> I'm in the process of setting up a web server, just got a vps with Bitfolk, you heard of them?
<feisar> (running lucid lts)
<MartijnVdS> feisar: they're quite popular with Ubuntuites
<feisar> the service seems to be very good, I did a clean install setting things up exactly how I wanted - originally heard about them on Linux Outlaws
<feisar> until now I have been running centos on my servers
<feisar> my mail server still does but I'm really enjoying using Ubuntu
 * daubers throws oblivion on the xbox
<jutnux> Finally got my head around bzr \o/
<zleap> yay
<zleap> wb paln
<feisar> ok, here's a question, mysql or postgrey?
<jutnux> GoDaddy boycott is still going ahead btw
<Azelphur> indeed, if your using godaddy for your domain switch away, they support SOPA :@
<Azelphur> a good alternative is namecheap, they even have a coupon code going at the moment: SOPASUCKS
<zleap> jutnux, sounds like they are now being punished for even thinking about supporting, well the law will show no mercy to anyone so why should we show mercy to them
<paln> thanks zleap
<zleap> np
<paln> feisar: postgrey?
<paln> jutnux: \o/ riots! \o/
<jutnux> zleap: They helped to write the SOPA bill.
<zleap> ah
<paln> jutnux: wha-?
<jutnux> And Gina Tripani is retweeting everything about them
<paln> jutnux: teehee they're soon to be dead then?
<jutnux> Doubt it.
<paln> jutnux: good they have good offers
<zleap> no they just lose customers,
<paln> just bad principles
<paln> well IMO you pay someone for their service, not for how they treat you (even if it is mutiny to all)
<paln> but SOPA is just a load of ****
<zleap> paln, when you get back to school if they ask what you did over xmas you can say you had a highly technical discussion on the SOPA bill
<paln> zleap: ;D cos I did
<zleap> yeah
<paln> I can use this is Citizenship class :)
<zleap> actually thats agood point get it some exposure
<paln> you actually just gave me an awesome idea
<paln> we have to analyse something we feel strongly about
<paln> then we're gonna hold some form of protest next year for whatever we chose
<zleap> software patents are the current big big issue
<paln> SOPA shall die
<paln> really? what's so bad about them?
<jutnux> you crazy?
<zleap> who
<paln> me
<paln> like I said, I'm not too engaged in the tech world ATM
<paln> just your Cnet news and stuff
<jutnux> Cnet :|
<jutnux> Cnet = CBS
<jutnux> CBS = Supporters of SOPA.
 * paln is beginning to reconsider being friends with jutnux
<paln> oh right
<zleap> http://stopsoftwarepatents.eu/
<paln> well they still have good news
<jutnux> Hey, you can't reconsider being friends with me - I'm too cool.
<MartijnVdS> !politics
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<zleap> ok google are beijng sued because there is a link to a phone number which when you click the link it dials the number
<zleap> i think bt has a patent on that
<DJones> Aren't the aims of SOPA to stop online piracy?
<zleap> yes
<jutnux> Yep
<MartijnVdS> zleap: beijing sued? sounds Chinese? :)
<zleap> i was just trying to explain why patents are bad
<jutnux> Permission to PM you paln?
<zleap> sorry being
<zleap> sorry my keyboard is playing up
<MartijnVdS> time for new batteries
<DJones> zleap: jutnux So In that case, SOPA is a good thing, piracy is wrong, illegal etc
<jutnux> No, it's bad.
<paln> sure jutnux
<DJones> The artist/developer of something has put their effort into it, they should be rewarded for it, rather than every tom, dick & harry ripping them off
<zleap> no SOPA may mena if you post a music video somewhre or make your own but use music in the background you get sued for illigally using that music
<jutnux> DJones: Except every tom, dick and harry do not rip them off.
<zleap> i think the patent issue is also how the law is writtne or how the patent is described
<monsterwizard> sopa will get passed
<zleap> normally with engineering you have to submit how the patented idea works,  as in blue prints
<paln> DJones: it attempts to be beneficial, yet it does it in such an idiotic manner that it could ruin the Internet as we know it; consider having Facebook and Wikipedia shut down, along with possibly Google
<paln> monsterwizard: I'm afraid that's what it looks to be ATM...
<zleap> but how do you do that with software methods of doing something (usually source code)
<monsterwizard> in that case
<monsterwizard> we're all screwed
<paln> the software patent thing doesn't seem too bad to me
<jutnux> Meh
<DJones> paln: Thats one reason why the entire world should support SOPA -> Shutting Facebook down :)
<paln> however I can see how it's kind of a big problem :/
<monsterwizard> does google support SOPA
<monsterwizard> ?
<zleap> doubt it
<paln> monsterwizard: don't think so
<zleap> its mainly the film and music industry that are leading this
<paln> DJones: don't hate on Facebook
<monsterwizard> because youtube?
<paln> just hate on its development team
<zleap> due to all the downloading of movies etc
<monsterwizard> the whole of youtuebe would need to chang
<paln> monsterwizard: pretty much
<zleap> under sopa you can get suied if you link to a page that links to copy righted material
<monsterwizard> huge companies rule countries
<monsterwizard> holy crap!
<monsterwizard> this is madness
<zleap> for something like that
<paln> all those uploaded tv shows would have to go and the people responsible for uploading them would most likely be prosecuted a lot more easily
<zleap> and if you link to them you could be too,
<jutnux> Tor would be made illegal, also.
<paln> Tor?
<paln> zleap: also true
<jutnux> .onion
<jutnux> privacy services
<zleap> but they are talking about changing some of the ways the internet works,  underlying protocols are affected,
<paln> the pirate bay would definitely be shut down somewhere along the line
<zleap> blacklisting whole domains
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: The Onion would be illegal? STOP THIS LAW
<MartijnVdS> P
<DJones> paln: If they're uploading them legally and with a licence, they won't have a problem
<paln> and then where would my installation of Windows 7 be?
<monsterwizard> prate bay is in sweden though?
<zleap> i t hought it moved to egypt
<paln> DJones: but downloading a the problem
<jutnux> paln: They can't shut down TPB. They could block the dns' of it though.
<paln> do the users have a licence? no? that's piracy
<zleap> but will it stop people downloading
<monsterwizard> depends on what crypto technologies are developed
<zleap> why do people download stuff illigally,  cost of movies on dvd,  they want to download stuff,   or they think its on the net there for its there for the taking freely
<jutnux> I am not paying Â£15 for a DVD.
<paln> zleap: people think they have rights in some cases
<paln> jutnux: haha
<zleap> jutnux, nor me,  i wait till they are on cheap
<paln> Â£20 for te Harry Potter box Set
<zleap> that is 7 or 8 dvds though
<monsterwizard> in the UK oit wont be ilegal
<paln> exactly
<monsterwizard> ont*
<monsterwizard> yet!
<paln> monsterwizard: it will
<zleap> but if they close domains downit will affect us
<paln> soon enough
<zleap> then they will push for the same laws in the EU
<monsterwizard> there should be riots in the streets over this
<paln> zleap: exactly
<zleap> thinking aside,  HAS making some drugs class A and illigal stopped the drugs trade
<paln> monsterwizard: riots in the cloud are already occurring
<zleap> has making child porn illigal stopped kids being abuse
<zleap> answer to both is NO
<paln> we need to leave heaven and literally rain on their parade from the cloud
<monsterwizard> yes but I dont want to go to prison :P
<monsterwizard> or doing something that could send me to prison
<zleap> as i said earlier tried to report someone locally sellingpiracted dvds and failed  to even talk to anyone remotely interested in even giving advice
<paln> monsterwizard: like I said earlier people think they have rights
<monsterwizard> lol
<zleap> paln,  exactly so people need to be educated
<paln> in the case of Aragon riots, we can't :'(
<paln> but protests are legal
<MartijnVdS> .. for now
<paln> *staging = Aragon
<zleap> ok
<monsterwizard> Are you using any services or prooducts from companies supporting this?
<monsterwizard> Microsoft seems to support it
<paln> monsterwizard: There's my windows partition going bye bye
<zleap> actually Microsoft have not directly supported it,   but they are part of a group that does (aparently) so they do indirectly
<monsterwizard> I'm using windows right now!
<monsterwizard> how are they going to enforce this law?
<monsterwizard> I mean, so much resources would be needed
<monsterwizard> It'll have to take resources away from 'real crime'
<paln> through direct banning and/or blocking of certain URLs
<monsterwizard> time to write down Ips :P
<zleap> the movie industry has billions from charging high prices for movies
<paln> and possibly more bots monitoring online activity
<monsterwizard> no way?
<monsterwizard> seriously?
<monsterwizard> bots?
<paln> monsterwizard: anything to get their message through to us
<zleap> i don't think any laws will stop piracy,  what is needed is to make things cost a reasonable amount,  like with music oneof the reasons given is that people object to music companies getting a huge cut and the artist gets less
<paln> so I say we do anything to get ours through to them
<jutnux> They'd just force ISPs to block certain websites I believe.
<zleap> why not have a system like with the humble bundle you choose how much to pay and how that money is split
<paln> jutnux: maybe
<paln> that's not the not efficient way though
<paln> proxies
<paln> zleap: but that would affect the local economy
<DJones> zleap: Using the humble bundle argument though, does that mean I could into a Mercedes dealership, say I'll have that car but I only think its worth Â£2,500
<zleap> i mean for movies etc
<monsterwizard> tbh I didn't know how serious sopa is
<paln> DJones: regarding digital media
<monsterwizard> I never pay close attention to poltics
<monsterwizard> I feel like a right douche
<MartijnVdS> !politics
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<paln> lubotu3: haha
<DJones> Shouldn't the manufacturer/developer be allowed to set the price they feel is right, if people don't want to pay it, they don't have the product
<paln> I got a message from lubotu3 saying it doesn't know anything about haha
<zleap> DJones, yes
<zleap> but they do and people pirate stuff,  rather than not buy it
<paln> DJones: they are ATM
<paln> that's what causes problems
<zleap> so they make it harder for people to copy movies which for us linux users makes it harder to watch movies due to getting codecs legally
<zleap> why u think the codecs for dvdf playback are in extras
<paln> legal reasons, duh
<paln> some countries don't have legislation for those specific codec
<zleap> paln,  yes but it makes life harder for people like us to go out and buy movies legally
<paln> H264 is disallowed in northern Punjab afaik
<paln> zleap: true
<DJones> Thats the point though, if you're not willing to pay the set price, you shouldn't steal it, just because its a download rather than breaking a shop window and pinching something isn't any different
<zleap> yeah
<paln> that's the thing with closed source and proprietary software. you know you're paying for it for a reason. and ATM that reason seems to be legal reasons
<zleap> actually we had a discssion onthis at a lug meet a few years ago
<zleap> if i break in to your house and steal something I am removing a physical device or object
<zleap> if I download something all I am doingis copying 0s and1's across a network,  and creating a duplicate
<paln> whereas digital downloads are simply copies
<zleap> paln, yes
<paln> I know a great little video regarding this topic
<zleap> so is it stealing in the same sense or perhaps taking something without making payment
<zleap> so on a technical level its harder to define,  are you actually stealing in the same sense
<DJones> I've got artwork which is a limited edition copy, 1 of 500 etc, at the end of the day, just because its a copy doesn't mean the rights holder shouldn't be paid
<paln> http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=GB#/home
<Nafallo> how can I possibly steal something if it's still there when I've left? ;-)
<zleap> Nafallo, exactly
<zleap> they are using old definitions in a modern digital world
<zleap> and its not working
<paln> sorry, doesn't work
<zleap> so they need to change the definition,  how is hard to work out
<Nafallo> for a movie, it would be illegal to make a copy, I would imagine.
<Nafallo> but then, most crews doesn't make copies, they change it, downsize it, convert it :-)
<Nafallo> so I wouldn't call that a copy.
<zleap> well we used to have a fair useage claus,  e.g you can copy cd to tape for personal use (back when we had tape players in cars)
<paln> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6vgkDbMcZc
<zleap> but they stopped that and I think have gone back to it now so you can rip a cd to mp3 for use on a personal music player or int he car
<Nafallo> rip a cd to files would make more sense.
<Nafallo> maybe I'd rather have FLACs than MP3s
<Nafallo> and that's still not a copy :-)
<zleap> Nafallo, well rip to files then but you got my point
<Nafallo> yeah, sure.
<zleap> what i mean was its a fair usage personal use, use on your personal kit,  you bought the original cd legit,
<Nafallo> not that I would ever buy a CD, but indeed. that's the point.
<paln> check this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=s6vgkDbMcZc
 * MartijnVdS buys CDs all the time
<MartijnVdS> I have over 500 :)
<zleap> i am watching tjhe mars bar one atm
<paln> zleap: same one
<paln> thought it didn't show up
<zleap> MartijnVdS, so you should be able to copy to mp3 or whatever andlisten on the move
<MartijnVdS> zleap: and I can (yay Dutch laws)
<zleap> however it is when you pass those files to me,   you are basically breaking the law as I am not paying for it
<zleap> as i said they stopped it here, then I think have gone back on it
<MartijnVdS> zleap: there's a "tax" on blank media and MP3 players to cover that
<MartijnVdS> the people who collect it are corrupt as heck
<MartijnVdS> but they're fixing that
<MartijnVdS> (well, politicians are.. so it might take a while)
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> so how do you stop people downloading music and not paying for it ?
<zleap> or films or anything
<MartijnVdS> http://torrentfreak.com/copyright-corruption-scandal-surrounds-anti-piracy-campaign-111201/
<Nafallo> zleap: you don't :-)
<MartijnVdS> we don't
<MartijnVdS> downloading is legal, uploading isn't :)
<MartijnVdS> (except software, that's illegal to download too)
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: hrm. so... how does that work? it's illegal to download a cracked program, but it's okay to download a trial version and apply a crack? :-P
<zleap> i installed windows a while back,  failed to notifce the bottom box saying country so it said USA, it installed then said my copy could be counterfiet
<zleap> with a cracked version you lose out on things like updates etc,   so you pay a small price i guess
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: no
<Nafallo> zleap: not on everything :-)
<zleap> on somethings then
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: the "tax" on blank media is just for music and video, not software
<zleap> ah
<zleap> well 4.99 for 50 cd's still isn't bad
<MartijnVdS> zleap: empty ones or what
<zleap> blank
<MartijnVdS> yes that
<zleap> ideal for creating lots of ubuntu cds
<zleap> dvds good for creating lots of copies of the open disc
<zleap> of course you then have to convince people that its a) legal and b) really does mean free
<zleap> an c) its good software
<mgdm> I didn't realise the Raspberry Pi had Model A and Model B versions... heh heh
<zleap> yah
<zleap> latter has a network port i think
<DJones> zleap: Yep, thats the differnece from what I read earlier
<DJones> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16316439
<zleap> i posted that to google+
<DJones> Hadn't seen your G+ post, but I saw that bbc article earlier
<zleap> np
<zleap> lets hope they find people who can teach programming
 * MartijnVdS discovered sugru through one of rasperry pi's blogposts :)
<zleap> it is interesting when you post to google+ or facebook the link gives a small preview of the linked page,   could this in theory fall foul of SOPA  and people get accued of copy right infringement
<DJones> zleap: Using a cracked version of windows.... Isn't that slightly insane, I've seen similar comments about copying news articles onto messageboards, there wasn;t a problem as long as the source was credited properly
<DJones> Stupid paste buffer
<DJones> zleap: Ignore that first bit
<DJones> I think the way round that is that by having the link, you're giving credit to the original source, I've seen similar comments about copying news articles onto messageboards, there wasn't a problem as long as the source was credited properly
<DJones> Thats what was supposed to be said
<zleap> which it does automatically
<zleap> thast never stops some drone trying or thinking they could though
<zleap> yeah citing sources is common practice, in assignments etc,  otherwise you can get accused of plagiarism (as in claiming others work is your own)
<jutnux> Gnome-shell is so awful.
<paln> jutnux: havent had a chance to use it
<jutnux> I'd much rather use Unity / XFCE.
<paln> zleap: what did you think of the Magic Mars Bars video
<paln> ?
<zleap> pretty neat, explaisn the point well
 * zleap is just making dvds from the star trek new voyages episodes
<monsterwizard> :o
<zleap> i would post a link to the episodes but the site is down again
<paln> zleap: ugh...star trek
<zleap> lol
<jutnux> Start Trek \o/
<zleap> hmm that was quicjk for a 1 hour episode it took ages the other day
<zleap> and it works as well
<monsterwizard> is there a way to use the same virtualbox image on another OS
<monsterwizard> for example
<monsterwizard> Move a windows XP image from a windows 7 machine to a ubuntu machine
<monsterwizard> with the settings and OS intact
<paln> zleap: wouldn't posting the Star Trek links go against SOPA :O rebel
<zleap> nope these are legal fan made episodes
<zleap> so as longas you share freely even paramount are ok withit
<paln> ah
<paln> jutnux how do you open a pm window???
<zleap> click on the user in the list
<jutnux> paln: /query username
<paln> i know about private messages within channels :P
<paln> i wonder if those with the /msg tag get logged or not though
<paln> zleap: using XChat
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> you should be able to just click on a name
<paln> no, it's right-click then open dialog windows for me
<dwatkins> I don't believe those are logged by the network, paln
<paln> dwatkins: thx for the info
<dwatkins> In theory they could be, but the archives of this channel are just the main channel, what Blitzed do is separate.
<dwatkins> oh wait, we're not on that network... ;) Freenode, I guess.
<AlanBell> freenode doesn't log, however you shouldn't say anything in channel or in a private message that you wouldn't mind being logged
<monsterwizard> unless
<monsterwizard> you're an Mi5 agent
<AlanBell> especially if you are an MI5 agent
<AlanBell> could cause a case to collapse if I did that
<AlanBell> oops
 * Nafallo spots the logbot
<AlanBell> !1984
<lubotu3> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<Nafallo> lol. srsly? 1984? :-P
<christel> paln: the network does indeed not log, some channels do log stuff, and other users may indeed log chats with you -- or were you pondering whether your client logs stuff? :)
<AlanBell> great factoid alias that one Nafallo :)
<christel> AlanBell: i mentioned you (well, ubuntu-uk) on the fn blog a minute ago!
<christel> because i am LOVELY like that
 * christel nods
<AlanBell> oooh we are famouse
<monsterwizard> LMFAO
<monsterwizard> !1984
<lubotu3> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<monsterwizard> awesome!
<AlanBell> which is like butchmouse, but the other way
<christel> haha
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-24
<jutnux> Now off guys, have a good night.
<jutnux> s/night/morning ;)
<AlanBell> night all o/
<jutnux> \o
<ali12341> monsterwizard: y u send me dll?
<monsterwizard> oops
<monsterwizard> sorry
<monsterwizard> wrong person
<monsterwizard> very sorry
<paln> hey guys
<paln> anybody home?
<jutnux> Kinda
<paln> jutnux: lol
<paln> who else is here? anyone?
<paln> I couldn't change my age on google account
<paln> had to delete my YouTube to attempt it, but to no avail
<jutnux> Everyone awake is nocturnal :-)
<monsterwizard> indeed
<monsterwizard> I'm reading about von neumann
<monsterwizard> the guy was insane
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Ageing Gracefully - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4517
<shauno> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> morning
<shauno> I do love christmas.  no-one calls unless they have a proper problem
<kvarley> How big a swap should I create if I have 16GB RAM?
<MartijnVdS> as much as you like?
<kvarley> I always hear different things on the forums which is why I ask here
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: 8GB?
<MartijnVdS> well swap is used for suspend-to-disk
<MartijnVdS> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwapFaq
<kvarley> So in theory I don't actually need one at all
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: ^ that has guidelines
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Thanks
<shauno> swap's a strange beast.  I rarely go more than 10-20 meg into swap.  but last time I did, I went 40GB deep
<shauno> and then osx left me a little "it's not me, it's you" note, and left the building :/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<MartijnVdS> I'm so glad I did my shopping earlier this week
<brobostigon> :)
<acperkins> I've done all my Christmas shopping on the 24th far too often
<MartijnVdS> Why did I buy this concrete house
<MartijnVdS> drilling holes--
<nigelb> heh
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: why are you drilling holes?
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: I'm making a network port and fixing the cable TV point of entry
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: and fibre will be terminated in the same corner of my living room :)
<StevenR> :)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: so it'll end up being fibre termination -> media converter (gbit ethernet) -> cupboard with patch panel -> router -> switch :)
<MartijnVdS> or cable modem -> etc. if someone decides to get cable internet instead of fibre (WHY?!?!! though)
<StevenR> cheaponess?
<MartijnVdS> ?
<MartijnVdS> what do you mean?
<StevenR> cable is cheaper?
<StevenR> like.. Â£176 quid cheaper over the course of a year
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: by fibre, you mean BT-infinity style?
<Nafallo> if it was infinity style he wouldn't need a media converter, so no.
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_x -> FttH :)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: BT Infinity is VDSL2, I already have that :)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: (well, in the Netherlands, so not BT but it's still the same technology)
<Nafallo> +luckily ;-)
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: luckily? :) Is BT that bad/evil/wrong?
<Nafallo> to be fair, I haven't used them. but they feel a lot like Telia back in Sweden :-P
<MartijnVdS> ah the big ex-government telco?
<Nafallo> yeah.
<MartijnVdS> technically, my ISP(+employer) is part of KPN, the Dutch ex-gov telco
<Nafallo> also, they advertise three SSIDs on their ADSL-modems.
<MartijnVdS> But everything IP(v6) is "ours" so it's sane :)
<Nafallo> by default they re-sell part of your bandwidth to people that sign up for a hot-spot.
<MartijnVdS> eww
<Nafallo> yeah. quite.
<Nafallo> but yeah. there are other familarities.
<Nafallo> telia split out skanova to run the cables, bt split out openreach for the same purpose...
<Nafallo> stuff like that.
<popey> morning!
<MartijnVdS> Cable as in TV cable?
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: KPN is not allowed (by the regulator, OPTA, think Ofcom) on the TV cable
<Nafallo> fibres, coppers etc... infrastructure
<MartijnVdS> ah yes
<MartijnVdS> that's a bit more complex here :)
<MartijnVdS> KPN owns the copper (phone) wire, the cable companies own the TV cable, but a sort-of independent spinoff owns the fibre (50-60% KPN owned)
<Nafallo> yeah. skanova/openreach would be that spinoff, but with all teh phone/fibre cables
<Nafallo> not sure about tv, but I suspect it's the individual providers, based on what I've seen on the streets.
<Nafallo> morning popey
<Nafallo> wow
<Nafallo> +2C in Sweden
<Nafallo> that would have been doable after all...
<MartijnVdS> but .. but .. you can't go faster than c
<Nafallo> asm
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<christel> Nafallo: are you home in sweden for christmas? :)
<Nafallo> christel: the first part was right. not the second :-p
<Nafallo> christel: I'm home, in London.
<christel> aww
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> I just checked my firefox, and was reminded of why I didn't get to sleep last night.
<christel> oh yes?
<Nafallo> http://www.thegerbils.co.uk/contact ;-)
<Nafallo> and before that I checked battersea cats and dogs rescue.
<Nafallo> I need a pet or three.
<christel> aww
<christel> http://isnsfw.blogspot.com/2011/12/may-internet-bring-you-comfort.html
<christel> you can borrow my dog
<christel> she's mad
<christel> or my son, or both
 * christel nods
<Nafallo> what breed? :-)
<Nafallo> hah. nice picture :-)
<christel> she's a staffordshire bull terrier
<Nafallo> if you're serious about lending her...
<Nafallo> my parents have one, and that was the breed I was eye-balling yesterday ;-)
<Nafallo> christel: http://www.battersea.org.uk/dogs/kiya_21057.html
<Nafallo> they have a complete section just for staffies :-/
<Nafallo> not sure that that is about.
<Nafallo> all the staffies I've met has been absolutely gorgeous.
 * MartijnVdS makes another time-lapse -- of the sunset
<AlanBell> afternoon all
<brobostigon> afternoonings AlanBell
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: all we've got is rainy rain here :(
<MartijnVdS> This is going to be a beautiful (long!) time-lapse
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> too bad the resolution of my old ixus isn't quite 4k video :)
<MartijnVdS> or I'd upload that to youtube
<brobostigon> ohwell.
<MartijnVdS> Once I get my solar filter, I'll do some with my EOS 350D
<MartijnVdS> that should be enough
<mgdm> I've done timelapses off a 400D. Yes, that's plenty :)
<brobostigon> ok.
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: \o/ gphoto :)
<mgdm> I used a timelapse controller I got (a clone of the official canon one, for a tenth of the price)
<mgdm> then a combination of ufraw and ffmpeg to make the video
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: gphoto2 can take pictures on the EOS350d, I'm using ffmpeg to create the video
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: but currently I'm using CHDK on an Icus
<MartijnVdS> Ixus
<mgdm> I have that on a PowerShot A47-
<mgdm> 470, even
<mgdm> Though the last timelapse I took was with a Logitech HD webcam hooked up to an NSLU2 running OpenWRT
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> that might work :)
<MartijnVdS> now for a night of burning up my CPU ;)
<mgdm> it does work, indeed :)
<MartijnVdS> I wonder if my Picsio is controllable
<MartijnVdS> probably not
<MartijnVdS> hmm.. it's 1fps now
<mgdm> I did once do a TL of 10-second exposures through the ND1000
<mgdm> but I can't find the videos
<mgdm> might've been longer than 10, actually
<MartijnVdS> woo it's halfway
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> 1/3
<MartijnVdS> only took half an hour 8-)
<MartijnVdS> ffmpeg now eats ~390% CPU
<Thrawn> Wooo merry xmas everyone
<Thrawn> What a wonderful christmas morning this is
<Thrawn> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
<Thrawn> HOW ARE YOU YOOOOOOO EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
<brobostigon> it is 5pm on the 24th, tmrw, is 7 hours away, untill the morning of the 25th.
<MartijnVdS> he might be in a different time zone :)
<Thrawn> Hurray
<brobostigon> 16:59:44 -!- Thrawn [Thrawn@94-195-174-233.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-uk
<Thrawn> No its 5pm here too but I just woke up
<brobostigon> is in the uk.
<Thrawn> Scotland, soon to be the republic of thank you very much
<brobostigon> ok.
<Thrawn> How do you get that ip address thing, you're obviously very good at ls; sudo apt get -bla bla nmap things stuff
<Thrawn> ??
<brobostigon> Thrawn: /whois
<gordonjcp> or indeed, looking at the join message
<Thrawn> is taylorworld an isp?
<brobostigon> Thrawn: that is my domain.
<Thrawn> How come my ip address gets broadcasted but yours doesn't
<brobostigon> Thrawn: you can easily work out my ip from my domain,
<brobostigon> Thrawn: afterall, every domain resolves back to an ip.
<Thrawn> nmap?
<Thrawn> tracerout?
<Thrawn> ping?
<brobostigon> think logically, which is most basic.
<Thrawn> ??
<brobostigon> Thrawn: but why would you want to know my ip anyway?
<Thrawn> I've only been using ubuntu a while, I install things with debian
<brobostigon> Thrawn: the tools in debian and ubuntu are exactly the same,
<Thrawn> I don't anymore, I was just jealous that you could find mine but I couldn't find yorus
<Thrawn> debian package installer I should say
<Thrawn> I keep failing with sudo make
<brobostigon> Thrawn: ubuntu has apt and aptitude and dpkg, just like debian.
<Thrawn> :( I think I'm scared I think I'll just pay bill gates lots of money and buy Windows 7
<Thrawn> Actually I won't I'll just download this hacked copy off thepiratebay.org through transmission
<Thrawn> Can I VMware it?
<brobostigon> Thrawn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_DNS_lookup that is what i have setup on my dns, for it to resolve the way it is.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYdC4aUuHEk
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYdC4aUuHEk
<MartijnVdS> </spam>
<dwatkins> 0 AD is a silly name for a game, but it looks like it might be quite good.
<MartijnVdS> 0 AD never existed
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: precisely :)
<dwatkins> Wildfire appear to be making a game for linux with this name.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: impressive. :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I only turned it off because it was flashing lights at me.. but it was still working
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I think it was trying to tell me it was <50% battery or <50% disk
<dwatkins> What did you use to make the timelapse, MartijnVdS?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: CHDK on my Ixus
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: + a Lua script
<dwatkins> groovy
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I'm planning on doing one with my EOS (+ gphoto2) soonish
<dwatkins> I plan on setting up an IR webcam
<MartijnVdS> with motion trigger?
<dwatkins> not sure yet, hopefully
<palnj> hey guys
<dwatkins> It would be a nice project for a Raspberry Pi ;)
<Azelphur> This laptop is tempting me... http://www.nerdilicio.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/gscreen-spacebook-17-dual-screen-laptop-web-red-blk-1050-010.jpg
<dwatkins> hi palnj
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: oooh! good one
<palnj> dwatkins: thx
<palnj> whats being said round here?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: No. It's not.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's UG-LEH
<Azelphur> YOUR UG-LEH.
<MartijnVdS> palnj: I made a time-lapse video
<palnj> an IR webcam? didnt know they had such things
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: my ug-leh what? :P
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: it's awesome, dual screen laptop is certainly interesting :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: if it were seamless, sure
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: but with the large black bar.. no
<dwatkins> palnj: yeah, you used to have to take the IR filter out and make your own IR lighting array, now you can buy them ready-built with pan/tilt
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: the black bar is quite small
<palnj> Azelphur: it does look kind of awful
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's not width 0
<Azelphur> no bigger than on any standard dual screen config?
<palnj> dwatkins: ah. cool!
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Hence my hate of dual screens :)
<MartijnVdS> well
<MartijnVdS> strong dislike
<Azelphur> haha
 * dwatkins orders a bitbeam stand because they look cool
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y286GD_OVM&t=1m15s :P
<palnj> i thought you would have taken the IR camera out of a Wiimote and stuck it in a case to plug in via USB :P
<dwatkins> I imagine the ones in a Wiimote are standard webcams with a different filter
<directhex> nothing so complex
<ali1234> all CCDs are sensitive to IR
<palnj> Azelphur: the SpaceBook has a good use, it just needs to be aesphetically pleasing aswell :D
<ali1234> in fact they are more sensitive to IR than everything else
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<Azelphur> palnj: I've just been wandering around trying to find someone actually doing something interesting with laptops
<Azelphur> they all seem to look 'boring', and have no special/interesting features now days.
<palnj> Azlephur, true, but everyone is always accustomed the the orthodox norm nowadays
<palnj> one of the major reasons people are afraid to try things like Linux ;)
<palnj> but i appreciate his nerve to try and produce this
<Azelphur> I'm still using my old XPS M1730, it seems like it's almost the last laptop to actually try something cool/vaguely new
<penguin42> Azelphur: There is a Thinkpad varient that has dual screen
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> doesn't seem as impressive as the gscreen though, the hardware is much lower and the price much higher
 * dwatkins donates to Wikipedia, finally pushed over the edge by their protests about SOPA
<ali1234> gimmicks cost money
<Azelphur> idd
<Azelphur> http://www.hothardware.com/newsimages/item6966/big_rig_lit1.jpg I paid Â£500 for this, it's my current laptop
<Azelphur> it has plenty of awesome gimmicky things.
<shauno> does it come with a dolly to move it around?
<penguin42> youch, are those break lights?
<ali1234> glossy screen :(
<ali1234> nice reflections
<Azelphur> penguin42: haha, they are RGB so you can change them (or turn them off), I set mine to blue.
<Azelphur> ali1234: mines matte
<shauno> are there they media buttons right where your wrist hits the frame?
<dwatkins> ali1234: gimmicks?
<shauno> altho I guess that's less of a problem when the touchpad is so small you'd never consider using it
<Azelphur> shauno: your judging it based on it being a small laptop, it's not
<Azelphur> your hands never go near those media controls, your arms rest over the speakers
<Azelphur> and the touchpad is very nice, and very big.
<shauno> that's a big touchpad?  what is it, a 27" screen?
<ali1234> shauno: the touchpad isn't small, the laptop is huge
<Azelphur> ^ that
<shauno> from that angle, it looks like it's about the same size as 3x2 keys on the keyboard
<Azelphur> shauno: there ya go, http://media.photobucket.com/image/M1730/professionalmods/M1730%20-4/SNC00208.jpg a good idea of the size of it
<Azelphur> compared to some CD's :P
<Azelphur> you can bash it for being too big or too heavy, that's fine :p
<ali1234> at 5kg it probably weighs more than my computer
<Azelphur> haha :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's probably minus the power supply which is alarmingly close size wise to my netbook.
<ali1234> you should build your own laptop
<Azelphur> I keep getting tempted
<ali1234> get a desktop case, flatscreen monitor, and a door hinge
 * penguin42 hands ali1234 a UPS and a small case - probably smaller than that one
<Azelphur> ali1234: hahaha
<Azelphur> ali1234: I was tempted to do that with a mini itx setup
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] The most wonderful time of the year - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/12/24/the-most-wonderful-time-of-the-year/
<zleap> hello
<Thrawn> Merry xmas
<zleap> merry christmas
<stnick> ho, ho ho!
<stnick> santa here
<stnick> have we all been good boys and girls this year?
<Thrawn> Santa, I need a miracle
<Thrawn> Can my girlfriend have an ipad keyoard?
<Thrawn> She doesn't like the ar drone parrot I got her
<stnick> Thrawn, I am the FLOSS santa, so no
<stnick> anyway, trying to get round all the channels by midnight, so have a good gnumas and a flossy new year!
<palnj> hey
<zleap> hi
<zleap> merry christmas
<palnj> zleap: thx ;)
<palnj> anyone else talking here?
<penguin42> not too busy here
<zleap> i am
<zleap> waiting for my dvd authoring software to finish
<palnj> lol cool
<palnj> i guess :/
<zleap> well i gave up with what i was doing yesterday so just gone for the star trek episodes in 1 file,  I am going to do the others again after downloading complete episodes rather than the two episodes that have been split up
<zleap> so what you up to
<Thrawn> I downloaded the 46gig babylon 5 complete series+films took a week and a bit
<zleap> does anyone here play open arena ?
<Thrawn> What's that?
<zleap> nice
<palnj> nm, just signing the Ubuntu CoC atm, then pulling an all-nighter so i can open my xmas presents extra-early :P
<zleap> game using the quake 3 engine
<zleap> palnj, good plan :)
<zleap> so you run around shooting people
<zleap> and collect stuff like more guns, etc
 * zleap hands palnj a stack of coke cans for caffine 
<palnj> weather-man: "I'm afraid I won't be saying the 'S' word for tomorrow's forecast..."
<palnj> is that santa by any chance?
<zleap> snow i would guess
 * palnj informs zleap that caffeine does him no good
<zleap> ok
<palnj> zleap: duh its snow, but i bet tons of kids that saw that are thinking that santa isnt coming now :P
<zleap> lol
<palnj> Google has this track Santa thing
<palnj> i've never been on it 'til this year
<palnj> it's kinda rubbish
<zleap> maybe younger kids may like it
<zleap> hi exobuzz
<exobuzz> hi
<zleap> how are you
<RaycisCharles> palnj: it's a NORAD recruiting tool designed to brainwash 5-year-olds.
<RaycisCharles> Beware...
<palnj> RaycisCharles: lol what do NORAD do anyways? :S
<zleap> yay http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/interviews/a354678/dizzy-prince-of-the-yolkfolk-interview-how-the-comeback-happened.html
<zleap> north american airdefence
<zleap> er i think they co-ordianate defences in case of WWIII, hence theyare in side that bunker (if you watch wargames the are anyway)
<RaycisCharles> palnj: air missile defence, I think.
<penguin42> zleap: Apparently the real bunker is much smaller
<RaycisCharles> zleap: it's a cover for Stargate Command.
<palnj> RaycisCharles: maybe the track santa thing is real then, so they know where he is and dont accidentally release a misslie that kills the big red guy
<palnj> that would be a shame
<RaycisCharles> I think it's NORAD's job to prevent Iran downing Santa with a scud.
<palnj> RaycisCharles: lol possibly
<RaycisCharles> There are like 8 Christians left in Iran - they need presents too.
<zleap> i was watching a program on tv the other day about christians in the middle east
<zleap> well it was a lords debate on it,  quite interesting
<Masconomet> hat does the Queen do after Christmas lunch?
<Masconomet> What*
<palnj> Masconomet: make love to Prince Philip in hospital
<zleap> well she used to do the queens speech but as this is no longer live, dunno
<palnj> or is he out of there now?
<zleap> not yet,  still in so they keep an eye on him i guess
<palnj> zleap: aw, i hate it when everything's about the royal family
<palnj> BBC news doesn't do reports on other 90 year olds needing heart operations
<zleap> unless they are famous
<palnj> that's why fame irritates me
<palnj> i wouldn't  mind being famous or not
<zleap> i find the news keeps being dominated by 1 or 2 stories
<palnj> i mean...i'd like to be famous
<palnj> but i wouldnt mind
<palnj> zleap: oh so true
<zleap> if you want proper news go for russia today or al jazera (or what ever its called)
<palnj> Indian news channels are worse
<Masconomet> they go to church in the morning, definitely
<Masconomet> St Mary Magdalene, in Sandringham
<palnj> they repeat the /exact/ same things
<Masconomet> But they've furnished us with remarkable details, I have to say, the Royal Family.
<zleap> royal tradition
<palnj> as in recorder and played back every so often
<Masconomet> Anyways, to cut it short the answer is: She goes into the saloon and watches herself on television
<palnj> *recorded
<palnj> Masconomet: i like that assumption
<palnj> Al Jazeera
<penguin42> maybe a bit of knitting with a corgi on her lap
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> or watch tv
<palnj> penguin42: loooooooooooooooooooooools
<Masconomet> On Christmas Eve, right, they gather in the white drawing room at Sandringham, around a twenty foot Christmas tree cut from the Sandringham estate. It's decorated by the Queen herself. at 5 pm, the whole family has a cup of Earl Grey, except the Queen, who has her own Indian blend.
<palnj> zleap: apparently the Queen watches the One Show
<Masconomet> And then they have sandwiches, cakes, and scones.
<zleap> ah
<Masconomet> At 6 pm, they open presents
<zleap> in the evening
<palnj> Masconomet: loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooools again
<Masconomet> This is Christmas Eve, remember. Why do they open presents on Christmas Eve?
<Masconomet> Becuase they are all fucking Germans!
<Masconomet> So there you are
<zleap> cos they have to be out early on xmas day to go to church suppose
<palnj> I bet the Queen wants a new corgi for Christmas
<Masconomet> The queen gives the signal. they give each other practical presents, it turns out.
<Masconomet> Oh dear
<Masconomet> the Queen is said to have been "delighted with a casserole dish and a gift-wrapped washing-up apron
<Masconomet> you think it's one of those ones with tits on the front?
<palnj> (leading quote missing)
<zleap> i suppose she would give the apron to the kitchen people that do it
<palnj> Masconomet: loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooools again
 * palnj will actually die of laughter if Masconomet pulls another funny
<Masconomet> Anyway, Prince Philip then serves port or brandy to the male members of the Royal Family
<Masconomet> Its tradition.
<Masconomet> Tribal stuff
<penguin42> Then she browses around the web for the latest stuffin the sales
<palnj> Masconomet: yes we all know that part
<zleap> well as he is in hospital that could be difficult
<palnj> that's boring, even for a 90 year-old Duke
<Masconomet> If I told you this about some Aboriginal tribe, you'd say "ohh, thats interesting"
 * palnj just died of laughter
<Masconomet> So its just a tribal behaviour. thats all; its interesting. I think
<zleap> yeah he asked one tribe if they still chuck spears at each other aparently
 * palnj re-generated
<palnj> OH! Is anyone watching the Dr Who xmas special?
<zleap> may do
<palnj> zleap: good, it looks bloody awesome
<Masconomet> They get stockings on Christmas morning..
<palnj> im a fan, as you may be able to tell
<Masconomet> The family pulls crackers but hte queen refuses to wear her paper party hat.
<palnj> Masconomet: enough about the Royal family's goings-on
<palnj> I wonder if the Queen has ever used Linux
<zleap> palnj, send her a copy :)
<palnj> i would if i had her address
<zleap> buckingham palace, london
<palnj> or rather, permission to send her anything
 * palnj realised his fatal mistake
<palnj> they might think it's a virus, knowing their security
<zleap> I can't tell from the website what its running http://www.royal.gov.uk/
<penguin42> it did run RHEL for a while
<zleap> tried to type in a random letters after the domain as errors can usually tell you what the server is running
<palnj> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=royal.gov.uk
<zleap> hmm
<Nafallo> Server: Microsoft-IIS/7.5
<zleap> oh well
<penguin42> oh, that's where our tax goes
<zleap> penguin42, yeah nice to see its being spent wisely when there is a free alternative eh
<Nafallo> X-Powered-By: ASP.NET
<Nafallo> might be one reason
<Nafallo> I'm not sure we run ASP that well...
<zleap> well you can get asp modules for apache i think
<Nafallo> yeah. I'm just not at all sure they will run as well as on IIS though.
<zleap> well theya re both created by microsoft, so you would think so
<zleap> then again you never know
<zleap> brb need to burn another dvd
<palnj> hey again
<zleap> hi
<zleap> hold on dvd writer fails to auto eject
 * zleap has one monitor and 2 computers,  so keeps having to switch cabels
<zleap> cables
<penguin42> zleap: Get a monitor switch, another monitor or a monitor with two inputs!
<zleap> I got one,  i haven't got round to setting it all up yet
<zleap> 2 hours 45 to go (well about that)
<popey> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<zleap> evening popey
<zleap> if i click on my home directory it opens up the file manager showing my home folder whichis fine, i i want to open another instance of this (to navigate elsewhere) I can't
<zleap> so i can't easily open up two locations from the same button
<zleap> i think it needs an open new window option
<DJones> zleap: Middle click
<MartijnVdS> \o/ middle click
<zleap> ah thanks
<zleap> i guess i need a unity cheat sheet with all the short cuts on (yeah there is on in 12.04)
<AlanBell> yeah, totally undetectable to orca :(
<zleap> orca
<AlanBell> screen reader
<zleap> ok
<zleap> oh you mean the unity one
<zleap> i found a site with short cuts on etc
<zleap> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/list-of-ubuntu-unity-keyboard-shortcuts.html
<AlanBell> yeah, the new overlay on long hold of super key
<AlanBell> broken by design
<zleap> so far holding down super produces the side bar thing (btw what is the correct name for this)
<gordonjcp> I find the use of Super key just plain annoying anyway
<gordonjcp> what, am I meant to get rid of my IBM Model M just because some cretinous "user experience designer" with a mickey mouse degree reckons I should be using the windows key?
<gordonjcp> sod that
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Well as I type this on my Model M I agree - although you can get some model M remakes these days with the extra key - it has to be said that an extra key is never a bad thing
<zleap> i take it the model M does not have a windows key
<penguin42> zleap: It predates them by about 10 years
<zleap> ah
<zleap> i liked the orignal solid ibm keyboard
<penguin42> zleap: They're lovely keyboards though
<penguin42> zleap: Yep, that's what the ModelM is
<zleap> ah
<zleap> built to last
<penguin42> nod, although I do have some faults coming onto some of mine
<zleap> even if dropped, if dropped on foot, foot = broken i guess
<penguin42> yes, although  the keys may fly off :-)
<zleap> ah
<zleap> ok, when i hold down super what are the numbers displayed on the apps icons ( i am guessing someting like number of documents in recent history)
<MartijnVdS> zleap: press one of the numbers while holding Super
<MartijnVdS> zleap: it's like alt tab but faster
<popey> zleap: super + shift + 1
<MartijnVdS> zleap: also, you don't have to wait for the numbers
<popey> will open a new nautilus window
<zleap> nice
<popey> super + shift + (number) opens a new window of whichever app is the numbered one on the launcher from 1-9
<MartijnVdS> popey: shift for new, no shift for "switch to current"
<popey> yes
<zleap> neat
<zleap> that would be a good thing to print on the cd wallets
<zleap> or to i nclude with self made cd's
 * popey notes neither microsoft nor apple do that
<popey> apple does have a rather nice video tutorial in the settings app to show you how to use the touchpad
<zleap> yay
<zleap> lets hope they don't steal the idea,
<zleap> and if the try and patent it,  god help em
<popey> you're missing my point
<zleap> ok
<popey> that nobody else feels the need to print a keyboard shortcut list with the cd, why should we?
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i thought u meant that neither or apple have that super + number feature
<zleap> neither MS or apple
<penguin42> popey: Would be an interesting way to publicise some of the shortcuts
<popey> windows 7 has exactly that feature
<zleap> ah
<zleap> so who thought if it first
 * Nafallo thought we had help.ubuntu.com for that kind of stuff.
<popey> dunno who thought of it first, don't think it matters really.
<shauno> I think if you need cheat sheets, you're doing it wrong.  That works for games which use keys for non-obvious methods.  The desktop shouldn't be non-obvious
<zleap> ok
<zleap> well i didn't know about that feature till i was just told,  so unless people know about it,  how they goint to find out
<Nafallo> shauno: games and zworak ;-)
<Nafallo> sworak maybe.
<popey> same for everyone zleap
<zleap> ok
<popey> there's things I dont know about unity
<popey> if i want to, I'll go and find out or ask a nerd
<Nafallo> svorak even
<MartijnVdS> popey: What? But you work for canonical!
<shauno> dvorak?
<MartijnVdS> popey: you're in on the conspiracy!
<Nafallo> zleap: ehrm. read the manual? :-)
<zleap> ok
<Nafallo> svorak is the Swedish dvorak, so yeah.
<Nafallo> that
<shauno> ah!  this I didn't know
<MartijnVdS> What's wrong with plain old qwerty
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: did anyone say there was? :-)
<MartijnVdS> ah, svorak == qwerty
<Nafallo> I spent like... 3mins on (s/d)vorak before I went back to qwerty
<Nafallo> svorak != qwerty
<shauno> I like dvorak, but I jump between machines far too often to make it practical
<shauno> I have enough problems trying to use a GB keymap on a US keyboard :/
<palnj> Lapland on BBC1 is pretty funny
 * daubers smells of white spirits and IPA
<AlanBell> classy
 * AlanBell eyes up the glass of wiskey left by the fireplace
<brobostigon> hehe :)
<jutnux> Christmas \o/
 * daubers has to drive lots tomorrow
<daubers> no whiskey for me :(
<daubers> Maybe tomorrow evening when I get home
<palnj> jutnux: too right \o/ xmas rules
<czajkowski> Nollaig Shona Dhuit / Merry Christmas
<AlanBell> o/ czajkowski
<czajkowski> AlanBell: oi oi
 * AlanBell just got that pronounced
<czajkowski> ahhh
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> I'll get ye all saying stuff at some point
<AlanBell> slainte is good
<AlanBell> I would do the accent if I wasn't on a phone
<czajkowski> :)
<jutnux> I've nearly watched the whole first series of Stargate on Christmas Eve :|
<RaycisCharles> Close call.
<AlanBell> happy winterval \o/
<imexil> any good suggestion to cut a ogv video file?
<imexil> (it's xmas related ; ))
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-25
<AlanBell> I should hope.so!
<AlanBell> openshot is nice
<imexil> I normally like to use avidemux but that doesn't like ogv
<imexil> thanks ... going to give it a try
<penguin42> can ptiviy (can't remember spelling) do it?
<imexil> penguin42: yes looks like it. Have currently opened both and it's hard to say in what way they should be different
<penguin42> annoying how many TV sellers don't list the physical size
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> happy christmas penguin42 et al o/
<penguin42> and to you daftykins
<daftykins> i bought a receiver from best buy UK before they closed
<daftykins> i needed to know the box size and weight, the guy just copied the info from the product page but that was the receiver alone
<daftykins> plus it said it was 430 cm wide O_O
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> nice; well, I'm considering replacing my CRT tv - the constraints are width, and find someone who will take it away - and I'm OK to pay them for that
<daftykins> not up for just taking it down a recycling place?
<penguin42> daftykins: It's a 32" CRT and is upstairs; so no!
<daftykins> hehehe
<penguin42> it almost killed us getting it on the stand ~7 years ago - and I'm 7 years older now
<daftykins> my parents are still putting up with my old JVC 32" CRT as their main lounge one
<penguin42> this is a Tosh
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> ah-ha
<gordonjcp> stick it on Freecycle
<penguin42> having measured it I'm reasonably sure I can get a 40" in - *just* and depending on the model
<daftykins> 40 is a good size if you've got 2-3m sitting distance
 * penguin42 measures - yeh 2.7m
<daftykins> mind you mines an oooooold 1366x768 panel
<penguin42> my problem is a misplaced sidewall mounted cupboard and a door on the opposite side that dictate the width, now what I'd forgotten was that the cupboard is mounted on the side wall, but not at the end where the TV goes, and by the magic of perspective I can fit in a wider TV
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> although that does mean that the width of the TV is dictated by which way I swivel the chair
<AlanBell> morning all
<shauno> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<gordonjcp> morning
<gordonjcp> you know what, I want a bit of software that can accept two points on a map
<gordonjcp> or better yet a route between two points on a map
<MartijnVdS> and then?
<gordonjcp> and calculate the optimum playlist for my mp3 player
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: optimum how?
<gordonjcp> based on speed limits, road types, ground features etc
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: wide open spaces vs mountains, etc.?
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: OSM has an API.. :)
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: so do Last.FM and Spotify
 * MartijnVdS hands gordonjcp a bucket of glue
<gordonjcp> even better if you could have a player that would track position so it would stay in sync depending on true speed
<gordonjcp> and cue in tracks based on actual position
<MartijnVdS> but what if you're speeding? Skip a song? Play it faster?
<gordonjcp> "oh we're coming up to a tunnel in a mile, bring up something fastish"
<MartijnVdS> Skip half a song?
<gordonjcp> "tunnel in 100m, mix to Future Sound of London - We Have Explosive"
<gordonjcp> for that Wipeout 2097 vibe
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<MartijnVdS> I have that with DJ Fresh - X Project (Wipeout HD :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z3SryAQgW8
<shauno> looks like O2 forgot to feed the hamsters again :(
<MartijnVdS> You ran out of oxygen?
<shauno> worse.  my internets have no route
<MartijnVdS> then.. how are you ircing?
<MartijnVdS> "No route, too hosed."
<shauno> different machine :)
<shauno> trying to use 3g on my laptop because the company network blocks most the hosts I need for games.  but my 3g provider have apparently taken the day off
<shauno> and the vending machine is out of doritos.  this is turning out to be a pretty shabby christmas
<MartijnVdS> shauno: We have some political parties and organisations that disable their websites on sundays for religious reasons. Maybe it's like that?
<shauno> really?
<shauno> websites that get more weekends off than I do.  that's a sad thought.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: hard-core "Dutch reformed"
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Reformed_Church
<shauno> reminds me of a camera store in NYC that doesn't accept web orders on jewish high holidays
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: sounds like the Free Presbyterians
<MartijnVdS> shauno: oh the search bits of the Dutch Chamber of Commerce (where you can look up businesses) also doesn't work outside "office hours".. for some weird reason
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I went to school with people who were very very religious like that
<shauno> this is where things start to go wrong.  the machines have obviously unionized.  we're in trouble now.
<MartijnVdS> /nick SkyNet
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: whole families of really hardcore religious people, the girls weren't allowed to talk to or even sit beside boys that weren't a blood relative, and had to keep their hair covered and weren't allowed to wear trousers
<gordonjcp> or go to university or anything, they all finished school at 16 and were married off to other likeminded religious nutters
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: we have a village like that
<gordonjcp> on sunday they'd sit in the house and read the bible if it was light enough - not always the case at 57 degrees north in winter
<shauno> most ahmish groups are more open than that now :/
<gordonjcp> eat sunday dinner cold
<MartijnVdS> and an area around it that's almost as strict (but not quite)
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Belt_(Netherlands)
<gordonjcp> the women would prepare the sunday dinner on the saturday
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: very similar, very similar
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: the thing that annoys me is that people rant on about how awful things are for Muslim women
<shauno> a lot of amish get something similar to a 'gap year' now, where they're let lose upon the world, so that when they come back, it's their own free will rather than force
<gordonjcp> it's just the same for Christian women
<gordonjcp> shauno: now that makes sense
<gordonjcp> you can find weird extremist outliers in any group
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: DOWN WITH NON-FREE SOFTWARE?
<shauno> solaris admins sprang to mind, but that works too
<popey> Happy 25th December!
<MartijnVdS> popey: Same!
<danfish> happy non-denominal mid-winter celebration all
<shauno> happy overtime weekend \o/
<danfish> or, in normal land, merry christmas :D
<MartijnVdS> danfish: "Happy start of the noticeable lengthening of days"?
<danfish> my four year old has been given his first (refurbished) laptop and he is whizzing round unity with ease!
<MartijnVdS> Ah, so that's the target audience
<danfish> :P
<danfish> MartijnVdS: funny how xmas coincides with a number of other festivals related to the lengthening of the day ;)
<dwatkins> I thought the clocks went forward in March... ;)
<MartijnVdS> \o/ wake-on-lan + vlc
<dwatkins> woot
<MartijnVdS> now I can put my Windows box somewhere out of the way ;)
<dwatkins> connect the monitor via CAT5, MartijnVdS?
<MartijnVdS> danfish: or not at all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
<dwatkins> Happy midwinter festival to all
<brobostigon> happy christmas dwatkins :)
<dwatkins> yay for Lego Star Wars
<AlanBell> dad is playing with his new iPad
<brobostigon> :)
 * brobostigon is playing his new scroll android tablet
<zleap> nuce
<zleap> nice,
<zleap> the advante of having to boot a PC into windows inorder to print, is that you do not waste as much paper as you would if you can just hit print
 * penguin42 jingles
<Nafallo> zleap: haha. nice one.
<dwatkins> brobostigon: heh, I got a Kindle ;)
 * dwatkins sniggers at zleap's comment on saving paper
<brobostigon> dwatkins: gppd a;sp, :)
 * brobostigon installs tuxracer :)
 * dwatkins rot1s brobostigon 
<brobostigon> eeek
<dwatkins> no, you're cspcptujhpo now
<brobostigon> ?
<dwatkins> I rot1ed you
<brobostigon> rotl?
<dwatkins> like rot13, the characters of your name are moved further up the alphabet
<dwatkins> because you typed gppd instead of good
<brobostigon> oh, i see.
<dwatkins> if you're really paranoid, rot13 your text twice for extra security ;)
 * Nafallo rot13s dwatkins's DNA
<dwatkins> ooh, that tickles
<Nafallo> bah. too bad this mix is distorted in places :-/
<dwatkins> quality problems, Nafallo?
<Nafallo> yeah. not my fault though.
<Nafallo> old mix, ripped from a CD
<Nafallo> I changed to a mix I captured straight from the mixer board in a club instead :-)
<mattt> hope everyone's having a great day
<Nafallo> so far so good
<Nafallo> that's pre-cleaning of course.
<mattt> :)
<Nafallo> got relatives visiting tomorrow until 2nd Jan.
<mattt> ouch
<mattt> at least you won't be bored :D
<Nafallo> nah. they are good folk :-)
<Nafallo> oh. maybe you meant the cleaning?
<Nafallo> that will be boring :-P
<mattt> hehe
<Nafallo> I would much prefer laying on the counch reading a book or watching a movie :-)
<mattt> you could do what they do in the US -- use paper plates/cutlery/cups for every meal
<mattt> will save a lot of work
<mattt> icebergs?  pointless anyway
 * mattt jokes
<Nafallo> can do that here to. in fact, I believe the previous occupier used too.
<Nafallo> but that won't get the dust of the floors :-)
<mattt> Nafallo: i use my socks for that
<Nafallo> eeew
<mattt> :P
<Nafallo> well. I don't think I have enough socks for these mountains.
<mattt> get the kids to dance
<mattt> ok, gotta jet, GMT-8 here, and kids are waking up
<Nafallo> roger that
<Nafallo> mattt: over and out! :-)
<zleap> dwatkins,  thing is most of what I print i don't actually need to print,  it gets printed as that seems easier, e.g  when you buy from amazon you get a summary of what has been bought, its easy to hit print, rather than say save as pdf
<dwatkins> I have 'print to PDF' as a possible printer
<Nafallo> s/possible/default/ ;-)
<dwatkins> well indeed
<SuperEngineer> Hi folks... just popped in to say "Happy Wotsits and wishing you all great fun" to all at U-UK.
<gord> visions of a wotsit based holiday flashing before my eyes
<penguin42> gord: Turkey worsits?
<AlanBell> turkey twizzlers!
<SuperEngineer> turkey cheesy whotsits?
 * SuperEngineer is listening to uuk podcast [and still mourns the passing of SuprEngr as nick]
<penguin42> what happened to it?
 * mattt stole it
<Nafallo> mattt: wb
<Nafallo> so... maybe not strictly Ubuntu etc... but...
<Nafallo> anyone here have pets and hence a good online pet store for supplies? ;-)
<Nafallo> I'm trying to work out a budget :-)
<mattt> Nafallo: i don't, but now that i'm moving into a house i would like to look at getting a little dog, keep me posted on what you find :D
 * penguin42 finds it cheaper to talk to other peoples cats
<Nafallo> mattt: but... are you in the UK? you mentioned GMT-8 before?
<mattt> Nafallo: yeah, visiting family ... usually in UK :)
<Nafallo> penguin42: had it been cats ocado would have worked. so.. it's not ;-)
<Nafallo> mattt: ah. kewl :-)
<Nafallo> mattt: well, for dogs and cats ocado should do. or any of them stores :-)
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, folowing "a request" on uuh podcast - I changed it ;)
<SuperEngineer> *uuk
<zleap> dwatkins, yeah (sorry am doing other stuff) have set the same thing so i print topdf by default or it should do
<mattt> :)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Erm ok
<daftykins> happy Christmas all!
<daftykins> is anyone on virgin media?
<MonsterKiller> yes
<MonsterKiller> happy christmas also :)
<daftykins> MonsterKiller: south sorta region per chance?
<daftykins> a friend of mine can't hit a site and i want to try and backup that it could well be DNS issues
<MonsterKiller> midlands
<daftykins> he's unable to get http://www.tehconnection.eu/ - it gives him an IIS landing page
<MonsterKiller> "Welcome to tehconnection.eu This domain was recently registered at namecheap.com"
<daftykins> weird - yep that's going quirky the same as for him!
<daftykins> MonsterKiller: thanks very much :)
<MonsterKiller> it could take 24+ hours for his DNS to update
<daftykins> yeah, interestingly i use openDNS and it's not been affected all night
<MonsterKiller> also, the IIS landing page is usually on localhost if you dont disabled IIS on windows 7 after installing it
<MonsterKiller> :p
<MonsterKiller> unless the webserver has IIS, yuk.
<MonsterKiller> xD
<daftykins> yeah it was definitely another host
<daftykins> he's on XP in Brighton giving him a weird sorta landing page
<daftykins> i get the normal site fine ^_^
<daftykins> wouldn't be surprised if it was getting blocked ;D
<MonsterKiller> lol
<MonsterKiller> anyone by chance used one of the new FX processors?
<daftykins> i used to love AMD in Athlon XP times, not run any of their kit personally since though.
<daftykins> put Athlon64 stuff in for people, though i wouldn't mind seeing what a modern AMD system 'feels' like but they just seem too far behind
<RaycisCharles> The Athlon 64 was the last good CPU AMD released.
<daftykins> to be worthy of anyones hard earned
<RaycisCharles> Bulldozer can barely compete with Nehalem, let alone Westmere, Sandy Bridge and SB-E.
<MonsterKiller> lol
<Nafallo> far behind? :-)
<Nafallo> really?
<RaycisCharles> AMD are about two years behind on the CPU front.
<daftykins> yeah
<RaycisCharles> Uh yes.
<RaycisCharles> But in terms of GPUs, they're about 5 months ahead of Nvidia.
<daftykins> but just can't write the software ;D
<Nafallo> if you say so. that's not my perception though :-)
<RaycisCharles> And about 2 years ahead of Intel...
<RaycisCharles> The 7970 is a compute monster.
<daftykins> we don' all have to agree
<RaycisCharles> Nafallo: it's been this way for a long time.
<daftykins> +t
<RaycisCharles> daftykins, you're right.
<RaycisCharles> It's better that some people buy AMD CPUs.
<daftykins> yep
<RaycisCharles> This keeps them in business - Intel need competition.
<daftykins> i'd love for AMD to come back with a winner - get competition going again
<RaycisCharles> So let the chumps waste their money on AMD CPUs...anybody with a brain will buy an i3/i5/i7.
<RaycisCharles> daftykins, isn't going to happen for at least three years.
<daftykins> yeah
<RaycisCharles> Not unless Intel screw up majorly. AMD's target is a 10-15% performance increase per year for three years.
<Nafallo> ah. your perception is based on desktops. that'd explain it.
<RaycisCharles> lol
<Nafallo> mine is towards servers.
<daftykins> ah-har
<RaycisCharles> Nafallo, do you know how many Opterons there are outside 8P servers?
<daftykins> oh yeah they're really good for performance to power in the server segment aren't they?
<RaycisCharles> Almost none. You know why? Because Opterons suck as much as their desktop brothers.
<RaycisCharles> daftykins, no, good grief no.
<daftykins> oh my bad
<RaycisCharles> Intel have a much better performance per watt ratio.
<Nafallo> I know of a lot of AMD-based systems outside of 8P servers, yes :-)
<RaycisCharles> Intel pretty much have every segment sewn up apart from large socket count boards and supercomputers.
<RaycisCharles> 2P Xeons are cheap as hell, outperform Opterons by 20-50% all within a smaller TDP.
<gordonjcp> RaycisCharles: well, except nearly every microprocessor you come across that's not in a desktop or laptop
<gordonjcp> RaycisCharles: Intel are basically dead
<RaycisCharles> It'd be nice if AMD could compete, but Bulldozer has been a catastrophic failure, sadly.
<RaycisCharles> gordonjcp: hah I've seen some AMD laptops.
<RaycisCharles> Intel's biggest competition in the mobile space is from ARM; AMD don't exist there.
<gordonjcp> yeah
<gordonjcp> that whole market segment is dead
<gordonjcp> you might as well build a laptop using a DEC J11 processor
<RaycisCharles> Prices aren't unreasonable, though.
<gordonjcp> or discrete TTL
<SuperEngineer> [& if AlanBell  is listening]... ok' I'll comprimise [ it's Christmas]... the beard doesn't make you like a criminal - it makes you look like a cuddly crimimal
 * penguin42 hits gordonjcp Hey I had an ICL Perq whose processor was a bit sliced processor about triple eurocard sized
<gordonjcp> penguin42: yup
<gordonjcp> penguin42: I have a board full of AMD2901 bitslice processors
<RaycisCharles> I just wish AMD would release a decent CPU ffs.
<RaycisCharles> Intel delayed SB-E for a year, because there was no competition.
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Yep that's what it used
<gordonjcp> penguin42: I also used to have this: http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/from_togusa/scaled/dscf0030a.jpg
<daftykins> SB-E is quite niche though
<RaycisCharles> SB-E only matters if you want six cores.
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Nice! Well, you won't be cold this winter
<RaycisCharles> The i7-2600 matches it clock-for-clock core-for-core.
<RaycisCharles> Not surprising since it's the same architecture and core.
<RaycisCharles> They just added a ton of cool stuff to the die, like extra cache, PCIe 3.0, QPI etc.
<gordonjcp> penguin42: sadly I donated it to a museum because I ran of space at home
<RaycisCharles> Oh, and increased the TDP from 95W to 130W.
<RaycisCharles> >_>
<gordonjcp> penguin42: I fancy building another one
<gordonjcp> penguin42: it drew less than my current desktop PC
<daftykins> yeah the power element was shocking XD
<gordonjcp> penguin42: with just the CPU box running (BA23 chassis, two 40MB hard disks, J11 CPU at 16MHz) it took about 80W
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Wow that's not bad - (especially given the mass of the drives!) - so I assume you have it booting v7?
<gordonjcp> penguin42: no, it was running RT-11 with a timesharing system on top
<gordonjcp> I did once boot V7 on it
<gordonjcp> took about an hour to transfer to RL02 across a serial link ;-)
<penguin42> uucp?
<gordonjcp> kermit
<penguin42> hehe
<gordonjcp> TSX+, that was it
<gordonjcp> quite liked TSX+
<gordonjcp> and this is why my dynamic dns for the house is pdp11.gjcp.net
<penguin42> oh, someone mentioned that to me the other day - they only just got rid of it out of their environment
<gordonjcp> what, tsx+?
<gordonjcp> you can still buy it
<gordonjcp> S&H do a PC port of it
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Yeh but the important question is .... why?!
<gordonjcp> legacy apps
<gordonjcp> there are many things out there where you cannot redesign the hardware or software
<penguin42> yeh
<gordonjcp> not without obscenely expensive recertification
<gordonjcp> so you can buy a QBus or Unibus crate that hooks up to a PCI card
<gordonjcp> run basically a highly-customised version of simh
<gordonjcp> slap your PDP11 cards into the crate and run your software on "modern" hardware
<penguin42> the problem is those things get past risk assesment because they aren't running on ancient hosts, but ignore the risk that the cards are 40 years old and only about 5 people understand the software
<daftykins> what kid of things are running on this hardware you guys speak of?
<mattt> can't wait to get my hands on a raspberry pi
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> i don't really get what's so special about those
<mattt> daftykins: the price?  :P
<daftykins> i suppose a ~Â£16 PC that runs off 500mA is quite good
<mattt> they have done a great job of hyping this thing up tho
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> too much hype
<penguin42> I signed up to the list of someone doing a cheap Cortex-A8 board - that should run Ubuntu userland
<daftykins> oo
<penguin42> http://www.rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/orders/ - but I get the feel it's at early stages
<mattt> i'm not really a gear head, i just want something to run at home for email, etc.
<daftykins> server wise?
<mattt> the raspberry pi sounded like a great candidate
<mattt> daftykins: yep
<daftykins> i'd have thought personal hosting is just a headache :D
<mattt> not really, i've done it for a # of years, and get very little spam
 * penguin42 has done it for years and gets kmsgs of spam
<daftykins> kilo? thousands? :)
<mattt> maybe i got duped into that debian privacy video i watched
<mattt> (eben moglen)
<penguin42> daftykins: Yep
<daftykins> ouch!
<penguin42> hang on I'll get some stats
<daftykins> i'm happy with my gmail account read from all my devices :D
<penguin42> daftykins: OK, it's dropped off a bit - but on Thursday I got 826 mails to my inbox, and 500 (exactly!) that managed to get trapped by my spam software before it got that far
<daftykins> crikey
<daftykins> 326 were legit? :)
<penguin42> no, about 826 were ( a few slipped through) - I'm subscribed to a few lists :-)
<penguin42> it's interesting less than last year - then I had 637 to mbox, and just over 1000 spam
<daftykins> ah :)
<daftykins> what server are you running there?
<penguin42> just an exim on a bytemark vm; with crm114 and spamassassin
<daftykins> ooh
<penguin42> daftykins: It's not too bad these days - it was harder when the VMs were smaller; it was difficult stopping exim overloading
<daftykins> i've always been under the impression mail hosting would be hard work for me as, what i call a newb
<daftykins> i run a little wordpress site on apache from home but i would imagine i haven't got it totally secured as best it could be
<penguin42> daftykins: It's not much work until it goes painfully wrong with annoying timing!
<daftykins> too true that
<daftykins> as tech invariably does
<penguin42> daftykins: If we could isolate the AI inbuilt in systems that identifies the worst time to fail and reuse it then we could do anything!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> we'd be rich!
 * SuperEngineer has just set reminder on Freeview for Dr. Who - don't you go forgetting it yourselves!
<shauno> when's that on?
<Azelphur> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/12/25/1438243/anonymous-hacks-us-think-tank-stratfor
<Azelphur> lmao xD
<SuperEngineer> shauno, BBC1 7pm [uk time]
<StevenR> SuperEngineer: that's what mythtv is for :)
<dwatkins> Doctor Who looks like it'll be a great episode, I look forward to it :)
<SuperEngineer> StevenR, it's also what get-iplayer is for - but I intend watching it at output time! - and dwatkins - well done 2u!
<dwatkins> what did i do?
 * mattt wants to cook salt beef
<SuperEngineer> Dr. Who in 3 mins
<SuperEngineer> Dr. Who in 2w mins
<SuperEngineer> Dr. Who in 1 minute!
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperEngineer> daruum duruum - duruum durumm.... it's Dr. Who!
 * zleap missed the start - was watching carry on cleo
 * penguin42 burps - pudding cometh, pudding disappeareth
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Pudding_farming
<penguin42> haha
<GreenDance> Hi
<GreenDance> Merry Christmas Everyone!
<GreenDance> All The Best.
<popey> evening all
<GreenDance> evening popey
<Nafallo> evening popey pope
 * popey can haz whiskey
 * Nafallo takes popey's whiskey
<Nafallo> no. popey can not haz whiskey
<Nafallo> ;-)
<Nafallo> popey can gife the Nafallo a hug and then haz whiskey
 * popey huggles Nafallo
 * Nafallo gives popey the hug and then the whiskey :-)
 * GreenDance shares his 24 cans with popey and Nafallo, enjoy.
<popey> :1~
<popey> stupid keyboard
<Nafallo> cans?
 * Nafallo looks at them cans suspicously
<GreenDance> larger ;)
<Nafallo> larger?
<Nafallo> larger than what precisely? :-)
<GreenDance> Guinness*
<Nafallo> ah. see... I prefer that from the tap ;-)
<GreenDance> i need glasses on, lol
<Nafallo> had it been jolt cola I would have been all for it :-)
<GreenDance> :-)
<Nafallo> popey: http://p.nafallo.me/chikita.jpg :-)
<GreenDance> want some Guinness popey?
<popey> heh
<popey> no ta
 * popey has whiskey
<GreenDance> :)
<Nafallo> mixing guiness and whisky sounds foul...
<zleap> back
<popey> hello zleap
<zleap> merry christmas
<daubers> Merry christmas!
<mgdm> Merry Christmas :)
<popey> hehe, refugees from strictly?
<popey> :1~
<popey> stupid kb
 * brobostigon is watching blackadder :)
<daftykins> ^_^
 * mgdm is un-RAW-ifying photos
<daftykins> saving space?
<mgdm> No, just making them useful for printing etc
<daftykins> most cam's can be set to shoot in both RAW and other if it's a bit of a chore to convert eh?
<Nafallo> mgdm: are you trying to tell us it's not useful sending 102MB of a RAW image to a printer?
<Nafallo> who would have thought...
<daftykins> Nafallo: i am shocked
<bigcalm_lappy> Merry Xmas peeps :)
<jutnux> Merry Christmas guys!
<zleap> merry christmas
<RaycisCharles> bigcalm_lappy, what did you get us?
<jutnux> Â£20 amazon gift voucher each \o/
<bigcalm_lappy> A winning smile and a reboot
<bigcalm_lappy> (shortly, once update manager has finished)
<daftykins> http://www.wowza.com/ - a friends trying to run this but it keeps crashing across 5 different Linux distros and 3 different Java runtime versions 0o
<daftykins> works fine on other servers but not on one with the intel C206 chipset
<daftykins> don't suppose anyones encountered that? ^_^
<daftykins> penguin42: when we isolate that AI, can we also work on why weighing scales needles are never pointing toward 0 when you set them up?
<penguin42> daftykins: Oh that's mechanical stuff
<penguin42> daftykins: That wowza thing, does it do anything with the actual graphics hardware?
<daftykins> i wondered that, i may check
<daftykins> as i wondered if the integrated graphics would confuse it
<penguin42> I mean integrated graphics is hardly unusual
<daftykins> apparently it's in CPU mode only because of quicksync having no Linux support
 * penguin42 doesn't know what that is
<penguin42> daftykins: So how sure are you that it's chipset specific - that's a very odd thing for it to be specific about
<daftykins> quicksync is intel's on-die integrated graphics H264 encoding
<daftykins> well it's my friends guess
<daftykins> as it's the only main difference i think between other servers and the one he's working on
<penguin42> being very new chips I bet they have newer CPUs and more RAM in as well
<daftykins> and that likely to be an issue, or?
<penguin42> it's less likely than a chipset issue
<daftykins> he says it's the first E3 xeon
<daftykins> rest of the servers that work fine are 5500 series xeons
<penguin42> daftykins: Is he running both systems in 64bit ?
<daftykins> yeah, 64 only program so i hear
<penguin42> how much RAM is in the old and new system?
<daftykins> just asking
<daftykins> "its the h264 encoder (mainconcept based) thread which is dieing. if we passthrough the video, it doesnt crash, we've ldd'd the .so files associated, they all link fine, other servers are more or less same spec wise, just older intel chips, tried a 3.2 kernel, same thing happens
<penguin42> tis possible that the h264 encoder is trying to use one of the new funky instructions in said funky new chips and is broken
<penguin42> it's the type of thing you might heavily hand optimise
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> he says they only get a core dump so it's hard to tell
<penguin42> well, welcome to closed source software!
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> daftykins: It's one for his vendor to sort out; if I had to hack around it I'd try running it in a VM and getting the VM to lie about which CPU is running
<daftykins> and masking functions, yeah i came up with the same thought when you said the above
<daftykins> penguin42: thanks for your input :)
<penguin42> no problem
<daftykins> haha...
<daftykins> "we also turned off vt-x, all the c-states (1E/3/6), HT, turbowe also turned off vt-x, all the c-states (1E/3/6), HT, turbo, vt-d"
<daftykins> "guess it may be AVX" whatever that one is
<penguin42> nah, turn all that lot back on - the AVX and latest SSE ones are the most likely
<jutnux> How has your day been people?
<daftykins> not too shabby thanks jutnux - sat in front of TV and film, good food
<daftykins> jutnux: and you?
<jutnux> daftykins: Pretty good. Mother bought me something I wasn't expecting: a new desk.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> those were some good hiding skills! unless you don't live there
<jutnux> Nah she left it round my Nan's
<jutnux> and I saw it and thought nothing of it hahhaa
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> penguin42: apparently it's working under Windows ( a VM) under virtualbox
<daftykins> he's wondering how you can mask those features in vbox
<penguin42> daftykins: He may well find it works under Linux in the virtualbox as well
<daftykins> or anything i suppose
<penguin42> I don't know virtualbox, I know you can do it in kvm
<daftykins> avx isn't exposed to windows apparently
<daftykins> guest is seeing sse1,2,3,3S, EM64T, MMX
<daftykins> heh didn't know there was a 3S
<penguin42> I think it might be what's commonly knows as SSE4
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-17
<solarcloud> maybe its the wrong driver .. i'm on the 'tested' one.
<daftykins> ah nah
<daftykins> they should all work
<solarcloud> ok
<daftykins> except in very rare cases where a graphics card is really new
<daftykins> and so sometimes the Linux drivers don't work 100% yet
<daftykins> solarcloud: did you ask in the main #ubuntu channel too?
<solarcloud> its not new at all .. infact the previous owner used it on Linux too .. but I've only had 3 screens on Windows so far ... :(
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> how are you connected all three, by the way?
<solarcloud> #ubuntu channel .. i could do on Monday.
<daftykins> *connecting
<solarcloud> displayport.
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> i wonder if Linux is having a fit with that
<daftykins> yeah give them a shout, those guys have typically seen it all
<daftykins> there are some great guys in here too, of course, but they're probably in bed for work :D
<solarcloud> fould be .. but i see there is no other connectors involved.
<solarcloud> ok i'll try on Monday ..
<solarcloud> **could
<daftykins> well displayport is pretty rare to be used you see, so it might not be 100% in the nvidia driver
<daftykins> or there might just be a 'trick' to getting it working
<solarcloud> ... well I suppose Pricess Leia has friends :)
<solarcloud> **princess
<daftykins> she sure does \o/
<daftykins> er i mean he, me, :D
<solarcloud> ok .. enough sillyness for one day .. thanks for trying all the same .. :)
<daftykins> np :)
<daftykins> gl with it o/
<solarcloud> straight to bedsie's & don't past Go for me . Bye bye.
<solarcloud> & no Preincess Leia you can't have the big pillow again !!
<daftykins> D:
<solarcloud> Anyone still up here ?
<shauno> at 4am?  that's a bit of an ask
<soreau> !anyone
<lubotu3> A high percentage of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.
<solarcloud> !poll
<lubotu3> Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.
<solarcloud> !details
<lubotu3> Please give us full details. For example: "I have a problem with ..., I'm running Ubuntu version .... When I try to do ..., I get the following output: ..., but I expected it to do ..."
<solarcloud> !gq
<lubotu3> Are you sure your question allows us to help you? Please read http://www.sabi.co.uk/Notes/linuxHelpAsk.html to understand how to ask a 'better' question.
<dw4tkins> IRC is full of curious people.
<shauno> you say the nicest things
<dw4tkins> I try my best.
<hoover_> morning folks
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<diplo> Morning all
 * jussi hides... mornings... overated..
<SuperMatt> morning all
<diplo> jussi: That's why there was no 'Good' on mine :)
<jussi> hehe
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1444949/ so what on earth does using -69M of swap mean??
<danfish> AlanBell: just think of all that space swap has used in the past! This is it's way of giving something back to you ;)
<czajkowski> popey: ever experienced any issues like https://twitter.com/decob/status/280603948325421056
 * Laney wibbles
<Laney> three more days
 * Laney no longer counts down to Christmas day but Christmas holidays beginning instead
 * czajkowski is on holidays today : )
<directhex> i've got a full week
<directhex> and technically this full week is on montreal time
<jussi> Laney: shh my countdown is till sunday... when I leave for Australia
<popey> czajkowski, the fact that he's saying "gnome menu bar" makes me think they're running something I probably don't use
<Laney> jussi: oh I feel so bad for you :P
<jussi> lol
<czajkowski> popey: aye wasn't so sure and he seems a bit frustrated so was trying to figure out what, hate it when people are upset by an ubuntu  install and are frustrated
<czajkowski> I'm sure it's something simple
<Laney> can he try a unity session? anything in ~/.xsession-errors?
<Laney> czajkowski: you off now until 2013?
<czajkowski> Laney: nope back tomrorow till friday
<czajkowski> been off since thursday last week
<czajkowski> usuing up some annual leave
<czajkowski> heading to ireland later on
<Laney> you jetsetter you
<czajkowski> and NO DELAYS :-)
<czajkowski> w00t
<Laney> (H)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<daubers> Morning
<Laney> I'm scared that I accidently washed my nice wool Christmas jumper in a normal wash
<Laney> girlfriend will kill me slowly and painfully if i ruin it
<popey> i ruined a mat by washing it the other day :S
<czajkowski> Laney: cant find it ?
<Laney> correct
<Laney> I wore it on Saturday ...
<Laney> it would be slightly more preferable to have left it in the pub
<czajkowski> Laney: rang them to see ?
<Laney> I'm waiting for the outcome of the wash
<czajkowski> hate it when you lose something you really like or a gift from someone :/
<Laney> I'm pretty sure the pub would have known that it was mine though if I left it there
<Laney> and rosie works at said pub and was on shift yesterday, so ...
<czajkowski> Laney: you're in trouble
<Laney> surely I would have seen it when loading the machine?!?!?!?!
<Laney> but I do have a bad habit of taking my t-shirt and jumper off together, so it could have been inside out inside a t-shirt
 * Laney hides
<czajkowski> bold Laney
 * Laney loads the washing machine like a man
<czajkowski> aka fires it all in
<Laney> SHOVE SHOVE SHOVE that's about full enough
<czajkowski> and never looks back
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Laney> I just committed a PPA sin of deleting a package and then uploading it with a lower version
<czajkowski> ello
<Laney> surprised it worked
<czajkowski> Laney: you're not well today are you
<Laney> sometimes it's more effort to go back and do something over again :P
<czajkowski> Laney: I'll remind you this the next time shall  I :)
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
 * Laney screams DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO
<bigcalm> czajkowski: are you or Jon veggies?
<czajkowski> NARP!
<czajkowski> lordie!
<bigcalm> \o/
<czajkowski> we likes our meat!
<bigcalm> And we like hog roasts ;)
<mungojerry> what are john lewis sales like?
<mungojerry> i.e. is there a chance the tumble drier i want will be reduced?
<czajkowski> mungojerry: went in there last year people tripping over themselves to get stuff
<mungojerry> czajkowski, will do the shop online, but unsure if regular stuff is reduced or just crap stuff
<dwatkins> I bought a matress from JL online, was much cheaper - they do 'website specials' sometimes
<mungojerry> so close to christmas i should probably wait to see if there's a reduction
<czajkowski> mungojerry: we got one last week
<czajkowski> just cant see much coming off them tbh
<czajkowski> never gonna be half price
<mungojerry> which one did you get?
<czajkowski> hmm it;s a condensor
<czajkowski> and has sensors
<czajkowski> not sure of make/model as not near it tbh
<czajkowski> think it' a energry rating B
<mungojerry> ah, i'm doing a vented one
<czajkowski> mungojerry: decided against the combo :)
<mungojerry> yes
<popey> i had to replace the elephant in our tumble dryer
<popey> or something
 * Laney hears the Final Spin
 * Laney Fears
<shauno> I want one I can turn on via zigbee, or wifi, or something.  they keep pretending to make these things clever, but never quite getting there
<popey> surely you need to go to the machine to put stuff in it
<shauno> sure, but I don't want to turn it on until I go to work.  because it's bloody noisy and I can't hear the TV
<czajkowski> put it on when you go to bed?
<mungojerry> noisy = can't sleep
<Laney> turn it on when you leave ...
<popey> http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/17/3775750/lixil-satis-japanese-smartphone-controlled-toilet
<popey> almost there
<shauno> it's a start.  but I'm thinking more cronjobs than my phone
<popey> http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/home-automation/cat4320011
<shauno> or a more realistic scenario, it could ping me when it's done
<mungojerry> does anyone know about central heating systems?my bath/shower water is fed off combi boiler but it seems to be not very warm atm, although downstairs tap is hot. seems to be heating the bathroom radiator when i use the bath tap.  how does that even happen?
<diplo> Two seperate feeds mungojerry, one shouldn't effect the other
<diplo> the radiators will be on a closed loop
<diplo> Only thing I could guess is pressure of the water getting up there ?
<ali1234> mungojerry: my parents always refered to that as "backflow" but that's a misnomer
<mungojerry> gonna try increasing my pressure
<mungojerry> only recently noticed it, but could have been an issue during summer
<ali1234> the radiator water and hot tap are not connected (that would be gross) but the hot water tank is surrounded by the radiator flow pipes, to recapture any waste heat
<ali1234> since the bathroom radiate is typically the closest that one heats up from that
<mungojerry> i suspect the gasman did something wrong in january
<mungojerry> when i had a pressure problem
<danfish> mungojerry: have you bled all the radiators recently - it shouldn't matter, but sorted out our boiler's hot water supply
<mungojerry> but not noticed that the bath /shower is too cold until the outside temp is cold
<mungojerry> danfish, no but will do that too
<mungojerry> main issue is the shower/bath suddenly not hot enough
<mungojerry> but bathroom tap seems ok (may be wrong)
<mungojerry> kitchen tap definitely hot
<danfish> mungojerry: no, sure. Same with us. Decided to bleed the radiators anyway and the water from the tap got hotter!
<mungojerry> sounds like witchcraft
<danfish> mungojerry: that's what a gas engineer we had round once said his job was!
<mungojerry> any opinions on the british gas Â£15per month type thing rather than indepenedet gas men?
<davmor2> mungojerry: do you have a kitchen thermometer? if so run it under the tap, it should be at no less than 50C
<mungojerry> what do you get from that type of scheme?
<mungojerry> davmor2, under kitchen tap or bathroom
<davmor2> mungojerry: all of them bath if you have one is the fastest flowing
<mungojerry> bath is <50 for sure
<davmor2> then there is a problem. that is very serious, less than 50 and legoinella (possibly spelt wrong) can thrive
<mungojerry> :(
<mungojerry> will look at it tonight
<danfish> mungojerry: the British Gas thing is OK, but expect loads of nuisance calls from them trying to sell you 'upgrades'. If there's a local company with a good rep, I'd go with them.
<dwatkins> I have boiler cover with Scottish Hydro (part of the same group as Southern Electric, I think), they never call me to sell me things.
<mungojerry> ok cheers chaps
<mungojerry> btw wifey is very pleased now that i installed CM7 + S2E on her phone. "infinite" internal storage now
<mungojerry> htc desire otherwise is otherwise almost useless due to limited internal storage
<brobostigon> anyone watching daily politics, very funny bystander in the background.
<directhex> ali1234, were you the one who did uefi tests in qemu?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> though you can't really test much as it can't boot a proper OS with tiano for VMs
<ali1234> all you can do is test signing and keys
<directhex> ah
<directhex> bums
<ali1234> it was a while ago, maybe it got better
<directhex> what are the cmd line flags to use it?
<ali1234> all the instructions on my website: http://al.robotfuzz.com/
<ali1234> basically you swap out the qemu bios image for the tiano one you build, and then run it like normal
<ali1234> that stuff is all in part one
<mungojerry> anyone tried the nvidia beta drivers
<ali1234> yes
<mungojerry> that apparently make xinerama a lot better
<mungojerry> going ok?
<ali1234> didn't make much difference for me
<mungojerry> oh
<mungojerry> i get real problems
<mungojerry> thinking of trying them
<ali1234> i never had any problms with xinerama
<mungojerry> mutlimonitor seems to give a slowness of an old pc even on a fast one
<ali1234> nah that's not xinerama, that's just standard for nvidia and compositing WMs
<mungojerry> not had it on lxde, but other DEs suck
<ali1234> it's exactly the same with one monitor
<mungojerry> might try anyway - ppa ?
<ali1234> it's packaged assuming you mean 310
<ali1234> nvidia-experimental
<mungojerry> i rthought there was 313 recently...hold on
<mungojerry> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-313.09-driver.html
<mungojerry> Improved performance of OpenGL framebuffer object binds with Xinerama enabled by 2000-3000% when the application's windows do not span screen boundaries.
<ali1234> well, i've not tried that one
<ali1234> i would love it if my desktop went 3000% faster
<directhex> stabstabstab
<mungojerry> xorg-edgers has it
<mungojerry> but i don't wanna upgrade xorg too
<mungojerry> meh it's christmas, might as well try
<directhex> ali1234, it seems smart enough to boot a real os now... but for the lack of fat32 driver
<mungojerry> any real benchmark is shold try before doing this?
<ali1234> try running glxgears and the dragging a window
<ali1234> it's not a benchmark but if yo are affected by that bug you will know about it
<directhex> gcc: error: unrecognized command line option â-melf_x86_64â
<directhex> sigh
<czajkowski> hmm any idea where I'd find bilal on irc
<czajkowski> Bilal Akhtar  to be exact
<mungojerry> used to hang out in omg?
<mungojerry> try g+
<czajkowski> there is a channel for omg?
<mungojerry> yeah, used to frequent it a couple of years ago
<diplo> heh, I thought the same thing czajkowski :)
<mungojerry> freenode #omgubuntu i think (don't quote me on that)
<mungojerry> SuperMatt lives there
<czajkowski> http://blog.itsbilal.com/index.php/2012/12/connect-an-android-4-0-phonetablet-to-ubuntu-the-reliable-way/  am trying to get my phone and machine talking
<czajkowski> trying to work out why when I unmount I get - fusermount: entry for /home/czajkowski/MyAndroid not found in /etc/mtab
<mungojerry> rebooting my pc with 313 beta drivers...i may not return
<ali1234> that reminds me, cyanogen 10.1 nghtlies are started and i need to update
<mungojerry> ali1234, my framerate halved with glxgears
<mungojerry> since installing 313 beta
<ali1234> well not to worry, it's normally like 6000 fps anyway
<ali1234> the thing is, what happens when you drag a window?
<mungojerry> was 3500, now 3500/2
<mungojerry> well it feels like driving the car after a service
<mungojerry> you've rebooted for the first time in 99 days
<mungojerry> and slapped a new kernel on
<mungojerry> and new drivers
<mungojerry> any difference? dunno
<mungojerry> just gonna check what elementary feels like
<mungojerry> wow, like floating on air
<ali1234> nvidia is always faster right after a reboot
<ali1234> see what it's like after 3 days uptime
<mungojerry> you're right
<mungojerry> mainly compiz and chrome realted i suspect
<mungojerry> how do i remove the right hand launcher from unity?
<mungojerry> when using multi mon?
<ali1234> whut
<ali1234> you got the launcher on the right?
<mungojerry> no srry, i mean one launcher present on each monitor
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> i can't remember
<mungojerry> i just logged into gnome3 and got weird effect that it was zoomed in300%
<mungojerry> like the compiz zoom effect
<popey> its in the display applet in control centre
<popey> "Launcher Placement"
<mungojerry> thanks popey
<mungojerry> have another weird one.
<mungojerry> no minimise button
<ali1234> in unity?
<mungojerry> yeah
<ali1234> dconf-editor
<mungojerry> think i have too many DEs on this box intershagging my pc
<ali1234> org->gnome->desktop->wm->preferences
<ali1234> button:layout = menu:minimize,maximize,close
<ali1234> or w/e
<ali1234> and yeah gnome-shell uses that key too
<mungojerry> i have that set
<mungojerry> might have to do unity --rest
<mungojerry> reset
<popey> thats deprecated
<ali1234> you shouldn't. the theme is gtk
<ali1234> you might have to change it, and then change it back though
<mungojerry> done that
<mungojerry> try to log out...
<mungojerry> (since i had orange title borders, strangely)
<ali1234> i've been looking at light-themes under the microscope last two days
<ali1234> trying to figure out why they don't work right in mutter
<ali1234> or specifically why radiance + human looks different in metacity vs mutter
<ali1234> it turns out the human-theme is full of nonsense and the radiance gtk-3.0 css isn't much better
<mungojerry> http://ubuntuone.com/14H5MqPsILbkBpMANUsDlg
<mungojerry> after logging out, still shagged
<mungojerry> oh weel
<popey> wonder if you're missing some bits
<popey> tried the usual? sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^   ?
<ali1234> that's unpossible
<ali1234> what happens if you change that dconf key to somethng totally different?
<popey> I have seen others report that after installing gnome shell some theme bits went a bit busted
<mungojerry> i have gnome shell (shagged), cinnamon (shagged), elementary, lxde, unity
<mungojerry> i think was working after gnome shell
<ali1234> multiple desktops on one machine never works like advertised :(
<ali1234> shell cinnamon and elementary all use mutter for window decorations so they're all the same
<ali1234> though gala uses a different dconf path
<mungojerry> elementary and cinnamon use forked ones though right?
<mungojerry> all themes have the problem
<ali1234> well gala uses standard libmutter
<ali1234> dunno about cinnamon but i doubt they needed to hack libmutter
<mungojerry> unity working fast with the new vidia driver
<mungojerry> cinnamon/gnome working ok again now
<andylockran> dme
<mungojerry> what would be blocking ctrl-alt-left /right from working?
<mungojerry> dconf-editor and keyboard-settings are OK
<mungojerry> ah, fixed it. was stuck half way between DE upgrade
<ali1234> ctrl-alt-left/right don't work in unity any more. the key combo was changed
<ali1234> you can set it back though
<mungojerry> any ideas how to resurrect a stuck mouse?
<mungojerry> super weird
<mungojerry> light is on but no one is home
<mungojerry> even tried killing DE and restarting
<mungojerry> modprobe -r usbhid seemed to do it
 * SuperMatt probes mungojerry 
 * mungojerry shudders
<mungojerry> czajkowski was wondering where to find bilal on irc. i suggested omg irc?
<popey> <ali1234> ctrl-alt-left/right don't work in unity any more. the key combo was changed
<popey> yes they do
<TheOpenSourcerer> Work for me
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wheee.
<AlanBell> ctrl+alt+up/down work in Unity and Gnome Shell
<davmor2> works for me too on 3 different versions of unity
<ali1234> popey: the change was reverted?
<AlanBell> I never heard about such a change
<popey> there was a bit of fiddling with keyboard shortcuts some while back
<ali1234> what?
<popey> and also there was a change to gnome which broke compiz keyboard shortcuts
<popey> only those involving ctrl though
<ali1234> AlanBell: you were talking about it on irc with me when it happened
<ali1234> it was during the 12.04 dev cycle
<ali1234> every keyboard shortcut in compiz that used alt was changed to using super instead when the HUD was introduced
<ali1234> everything that previously used super (ie ezoom) was disabled completely
<ali1234> the change was completely unnannounced and most people only saw it when the compiz updated that reset all your custom settings to default was released
<popey> bug 940085
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 940085 in metacity (Ubuntu) "12.04, Compiz Wall plugin default shortcut keys are incorrect" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940085
<dogmatic69> hmm, right click => properties on 'NEF' file crashes file manager thing.
<dogmatic69> NEF being nikon raw image file
<popey> bug 987274
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 987274 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Nautilus freezes after checking properties of PEF file" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987274
<popey> bug 1055820
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1055820 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Propriety on some .nef (nikon) files, freeze nautilus" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055820
<dogmatic69> popey: ah, its not just my pc being lame.
<AlanBell> ali1234: ah, I remember that, was a bit of a mess
<dogmatic69> any idea how I can change the NEF open program some other way?
<daftykins> dogmatic69: someone in the comments says it mystically works if you 'strace' nautilus in the process 0o
<daftykins> heh seems to be every camera raw format going, pesky proprietary formats
<Laney> that kind of thing happens with race conditions
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> anyone know the current situation with 3 screens over displayport off an nvidia card on quantal btw? had someone ask last night
<daftykins> i figured it'd be just running nvidia-settings with gksudo, then writing a xorg.conf, but i think i'm out of date now?
<davmor2> daftykins: very out of date ;)
<daftykins> which bit?
<daftykins> he'd installed the proprietary driver already, naturally
<davmor2> daftykins: just set in nvidia-settings and done, however I have no idea i the binary is working correctly in Quantal it wasn't
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> i had a sneaking suspicion that daisy-chained displayport screens might be a little rare a use-case to be working 100% right now too
 * Laney is testing something on fedora
 * Laney has an "oh god what if i break something" new user feeling
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> Laney: sounds fun
<daftykins> don't scratch the paintwork!
 * MartijnVdS listens to TIMC
<MartijnVdS> \o/ timc http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/timc
<daftykins> one guy being serious, one not
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yes :)
<daftykins> my what hilarious consequences may brew up :)
<Nece228> Hi, is it easy to find a web developer job in uk?
<BigRedS> Standards apper to be low, yes
<daftykins> lol
<Nece228> BigRedS: what do you mean?
<zoizoi> LIST
<cliftonts> Hey, Azelphur, are you there?
<Azelphur> yep
<Seeker`> I just lost the game :(
<cliftonts> it was you that suggested I should build a cantenna wasn't it?
<Azelphur> yep
<cliftonts> it works great, except for the fact it doesn't work!
<Azelphur> wait, did it explode and kill your kittens?
<Azelphur> :P
<Azelphur> oh, that's no good :(
<cliftonts> the signal is through the roof but the wireless card refuses to connect to anything
<Azelphur> what did you use as the can?
<Azelphur> haha
<cliftonts> It won't even connect to a router sat right next to it while it's not in the can!
<Azelphur> :(
<cliftonts> any thoughts?
<Azelphur> sounds like either the laptop is playing up or the stick is broken
<Azelphur> try a different computer?
<cliftonts> it's a brand new stick and I don't have any other computers
<cliftonts> it reports itself as RTL8188CUS
<cliftonts> could it be some sort of conflict between the laptop's own wireless and the usb one?
<Azelphur> unlikely
<Azelphur> you can't take it to your neighbours and test it on his machine?
<cliftonts> it keeps asking for the passphrase again and defaulting back to the internal wireless
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> maybe right click > edit connections and delete everything in there
<Azelphur> that deletes all saved passwords / settings
<cliftonts> Not really, he has some friend who are best avoided. I'd rather not take the chance they are there.
<Azelphur> that helps me sometimes when wifi is playing up
<cliftonts> That will cut me off, so please bare with
<Azelphur> righto
<cliftonts> seems to have made no difference
<Azelphur> :(
<Azelphur> what are you connected with now, your internal wifi?
<cliftonts> yup7
<cliftonts> and I know the passphrase is right because it's copied and pasted
<Azelphur> only thing I can suggest is trying the dongle in a different computer to see if it's broke
<cliftonts> Aah! I could try rebooting into my 12.04 install
<cliftonts> I have to admit 12.10 has been a real bitch. It's got a bad attitude on my machine
<Azelphur> could try that :)
<cliftonts> brb then
<cliftonts> right, it connects now but I can't see any networks outside my room!
<daftykins> you got it aimed right? cantennas are directional i think?
<cliftonts> in 12.10 it had full signal even without the cantenna
<Azelphur> oddness
<daftykins> use iwconfig and what not to see some real stats?
<cliftonts>  i was using aircrack
<daftykins> haha
<cliftonts> ?
<daftykins> ah it's just amusing to assume what you might be able to get up to in the coming days XD
<cliftonts> and what might that be?
<daftykins> i know they're good analysis tools
<daftykins> nah dw i'm not meaning to annoy
<cliftonts> I'm accessing a network I have permission to access
<cliftonts> right I've got strong signal but for some reason it's choosing not to display the networks in the network manager list
<cliftonts> I've noticed there are often many more networks listed on aircrack
<cliftonts> hello?
<SuperMatt> yo
<SuperMatt> I don't know the answer
<SuperMatt> have you tried changing the channel your wireless is operating on?
<cliftonts> I think I do
<cliftonts> http://askubuntu.com/questions/123937/rtl8188cus-wireless-usb-dongle-doesnt-work-unless-i-disable-wireless-security
<SuperMatt> ah
<SuperMatt> realtek
 * SuperMatt nods sagely
<cliftonts> I'm going to reboot and try that fix. 'I'm going out for a walk....I may be some time
<SuperMatt> I know your pain
<cliftonts> thanks all, bye
<cliftonts> ok, next problem. The drivers are for kernel 2.6 or 3.0, not the 3.5 that ubuntu is using. Can I use these drivers?
<einonm> ls
<einonm> dammit, wrong window...
<oimon> anyone know a good irc for plumbing advice?
<oimon> cannot repressurize my boiler :(
<cliftonts> Azelphur: I got it working!
<Azelphur> cliftonts: woo
<Azelphur> victory :p
<cliftonts> well, it worked for a bit and then stopped loading pages. But I think the rest is just fine tuning
<Azelphur> :)
<cliftonts> right, I'm of to celebrate with a bacon sandwhich!
<cliftonts> thanks for your help everyone
<cliftonts> bye
<ali1234> oimon: stack exchange DIY
<ali1234> top question on front page when i went to it: http://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/16204/can-vermin-come-in-through-your-toilet-or-shower-drain-and-if-so-what-can-you
<ali1234> my mother is always going on about that
<ali1234> and obsessively keeping the bathroom door shut "in case rats swim up the toilet"
<ali1234> of course it has never happened in 30 years
<jacobw> that's odd
<ali1234> i sent here the link to that news story about the python that got loose inside the drains of a tower block and she was like O.O
<ali1234> i was like "it's fine it will eat the rats"
<oimon> boilers make me depressed :(
<davmor2> If I don't get back on before Xmas have a great Xmas everyone and I wish you health wealth and happiness for the new year
<daftykins> ali1234: lol super scuba diving rats
<ali1234> well rats are good swimmers. it's climbing up the pipe that presents the difficulty apparently
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> yes, definitely not bred for anti-gravity
<Nece228> Haha
<Nece228> Btw is it easy to find web developer job?
<Nece228> For immigrant?
<solarcloud> I tried downloading 12.10 from the main-website, and got: 'ubuntu-12.10-desktop-amd64.ISO', but, Is This the right version to install on a Atom/Intel Netbook-Samsung ??
<AlanBell> solarcloud: probably, do you know precisely which atom it is?
<AlanBell> well either way, give it a go, it will either work or tell you that it wants the 32bit CD
<AlanBell> most atom chips are 64 bit but there were a handful of early netbook ones that were not
<MartijnVdS> good thing they fixed that
<dave101010> hi all just fond ubuntu uk today and think it is cool
<dave101010> dpes any one know any app that will force a screen resiloution i have a eeepc 701sd and it get hard to do things on a small screen or haveing to press alt key all the time
<brobostigon> dave101010: you should be able to change resolution inside the montiors section, inside the systems settings app.
<dave101010> na it has only one then i tried jupiter and that had three sizes only one was god
<brobostigon> dave101010: in wich case, you might have to create a custom xorg config, to force it from that side.
<dave101010> yeah i have been looking on the ubuntu foroms under eeepc 701 and they say to run the install udner a custom string but then you restart and boom small again
<brobostigon> dave101010: do you mean a grub parameter ?
<dave101010> na the actualy screen res
<dave101010> when fully booted
<dave101010> it is a 7 inch screen so i am not expectijng the world
<brobostigon> a fixed xorg config, wont that i know of, reset when you reboot, it will be fixed, over reboots.
<dave101010> cool i will look up some good code and test it out thatnks
<dave101010> do you listen to the podcast
<brobostigon> when i can, yes.
<brobostigon> dave101010: just be careful, back up your xorg config first, and make sure you can boot a live media, so you can fix, if it goes wrong.
<dave101010> na i use this eeepc as a test rig so i can rebuild any time i need to plus i have a hbcd to format if i go really wrong
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> dave101010: more to the point, are you comfortable in command line? as if the xorg config fails, it may do either of two things, boot into basic xorg config, or xorg simply wont start, and will drop you into command line.
<dave101010> i am learning more and more every day i have been playing with all flavors of linus for about 5 years so i got some tricks
<brobostigon> :)
<dave101010> by the sounds of it your a real programmer im just a script kid at the mo
<brobostigon> dave101010: i can do basics c and c++ and alittle python, but nothing spectacular.
<dave101010> i just do hex and learning c and c++
<brobostigon> :)
<dave__> sorry i had to change my name but still me
<dave__> i went from webpage to xchat
<ali1234> you can't change the resolution on an LCD
<ali1234> you can make the fonts smaller though
<brobostigon> ali1234: yes, i noticed such features, in gnome-shells accesability features.
<ali1234> the procedure varies for each desktop
<ali1234> some make it harder than others
<dave__> there are some scripts that will do it but the one i used for setup was in the setup lines only
<brobostigon> ali1234: yes.
<brobostigon> dave__: which DE are you using ?
<dave__> yeah i have the custom ubuntu i will load it in to a vm and jack the code for the screen see what they did more even switch back to gnome insted of unity
<dave__> DE?
<brobostigon> dave__: if it is gnome3, then it within the accessability features to change it.
<brobostigon> desktop environment
<dave__> unity at the mo i did a fresh install today of 12.04
<brobostigon> unity i dont know.
<dave__> it is like gnome but your have broken fingers
<brobostigon> well, there are some rather large differences.
<dave__> yeah i think i will go on to gnome that is what the eeebuntu has done
<dave__> but that uses ubuntu 9 i think
<brobostigon> 9.10/9.04 ? which must be EOL on desktop now, almost three years old.
<brobostigon> !9.10
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala) was the eleventh release of Ubuntu. !End-Of-Life on April 29th 2011, see http://ubottu.com/y/karmic for details.
<dave__> yeah befor uniy messed things up
<dave__> right http://www.filiwiese.com/installing-gnome-on-ubuntu-12-04-precise-pangolin/ says i get gnome 3 on 12/04
<brobostigon> not sure on 12.04, but there is full gnome3 in 12.10.
<dave__> nice cool
<brobostigon> !info gnome-shell
<lubotu3> gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.5.91-0ubuntu1 (quantal), package size 342 kB, installed size 933 kB
<dave__> you know what else eats me the password
<dave__> so it may be worth just doing a upgrade then
<brobostigon> !12.04
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) is the current !LTS release of Ubuntu.  Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/12.04/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1204
<brobostigon> dave__: depends, if you want to stick with lts or not?
<dave__> yeah
<dave__> i want to learn ow to do it then rebuild it to look like a mac book
<ali1234> eeePC 701 isn't supported in newer Ubuntu builds because it has no PAE
<dave__> na i would have to do a command line or tick the box in update manager
<ali1234> yes.
<ali1234> and possibly build your own kernel
<dave__> yeah one day not that good yet lol
<dave__> im adding gnome 3 now to it see what happens
<popey> ahh 702
<popey> er, 701
<popey> I ran crunchbang on one of those for a while
<popey> still quite like xandrois
<popey> -i
<popey> -typos
<dave__> yeah i got the eeepc 701 sd
<popey> my kids still use their eeepc 900's running ubuntu 12.04
<brobostigon> 12.10 with gnome3, runs mostly ok, on my eeepc 900 here.
<dave__> right just restarting
<dave__>  xandrois look nice i will try that
<dave__> infact that is the os that it came with then i installed ubuntu
<daftykins> :>
<dave__> tell you what gnome 3 is nice more lile what i want add a few tewaks and think i will be there
<dave__> right im off thanks for the help
<ali1234> "first second third fourth fifth ..." - all these words are from old english except "second" which is from latin like "primary secondary tertiary" etc
<ali1234> and now that i have realised this i have to find out why
<daftykins> plaigirism (sp) in even the earliest times!
<ali1234> anyone know a good SMS blocker for android? one that doesn't generate more notifications than it blocks?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-18
<Namor_> idij
<Namor_> jj
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I am using pidgin version 2.10.6 on ubuntu 11.10 along with pidgin-awayonlock version 0.5.2-1 I am running unity desktop. when i lock the screen, the status message does not change to "I am not here right now or Away". Any clue?
<diplo> Morning all
<Ivanka> morning diplo
<diplo> Glad I didn't add 'Good' to that this morning, just had a phone call.
<diplo> I'm a developer supposedly, well out of 3 'hardware' people in our office, not one has turned in
<diplo> :(
<czajkowski> morning folks
<dwatkins> hiya
<bigcalm> Good morning eeps :)
<bigcalm> p
<dwatkins> eep eep
<dogmatic69> Every time I run updates ubuntu requires a restart :/
<czajkowski> dogmatic69: there is a bug about that open re restart later
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<constrictor> good morning
<mungojerry> is there still an ubuntu one offer to get 20gb when you buy a song?
<czajkowski> mungojerry: only thing I see is https://one.ubuntu.com/help/faq/#account_referrals
<DJones> Does anybody here have a Nexus 7? Debating whether to get one at for Christmas as a "family" present and wondered how well the multiple user accounts work? Does each user have seperate email accounts, google play accounts etc, or do they still get lumped under one account and its just backgrounds, home screens that are tailored to each user
<popey> i do
<popey> each user has effectively separate everything
<popey> the only shared thing is if user A installs an app, and then user B installs the same app, it shares binaries
<popey> so as not to waste storage
<Laney> irritates me that only the 'owner' can use google talk
<sprmtt> can you create admin accounts?
<DJones> Thanks, that was what I was hoping would be the answer, makes sense to share the binaries in cases like that
<popey> but if user A pays for an app, user B has to pay for it if they want it too
<popey> i dont see a way to share paid apps
<popey> sprmtt, what is an admin account?
<sprmtt> well, I just figured that you could set it so only one person can install stuff
<popey> no
<popey> each user can
<popey> if they have a play store account
<popey> (google account)
<sprmtt> fair enough
<DJones> re paid accounts, I saw something mentioned for people with 2 tablets, set your own email as primary on one with your wifes as a secondary account (but not set to sync), and on the 2nd tablet, set your wifes account as primary and your own as a secondary (but not set to sync), that way each tablet has access to both users play store apps, don't if something similar could be done on a single tablet
<popey> hah
<popey> sounds cunning
<sprmtt> I had wondered about doing that myself
<DJones> popey: Post 10 on this link http://forums.androidcentral.com/google-nexus-7-tablet-forum/220066-any-tips-multiple-nexus-7-household.html
<sprmtt> I wondered why one account couldn't be secondary on 20 different devices
<popey> I'm not too fussed about that tbh, I have bought so few things from the android store
<popey> need to figure a way of putting films on the n7
<DJones> I've only ever bought one thing .... Minecraft when it was 99p or something like that
<popey> need to shrink them too
<DJones> Would airdroid work for copying films over?
<popey> will have to re-learn libav/ffmpeg
<popey> will have a play over xmas and load the thing up for a flight to sfo in the new year
<Azelphur> lol, pirateparties tpb proxy got blocked
<Azelphur> onto the next proxy \o/
<shauno> do I get the impression the only reason anyone uses tbp anymore, is to spite the sensors?
<daftykins> i'd imagine all the coverage makes them even more high profile too
<popey> why even bother looking for a 3rd party proxy which may go down or be blocked, just run a private proxy on your vps and tunnel to it
<dave101010> hi all
<MartijnVdS> \o dave101010
<dave101010> hows you
<MartijnVdS> tired after work :)
<dave101010> well you deserve a voka
<MartijnVdS> nah
<dave101010> well it is up to you what kind of mods you got on your linux
<dave101010> or has any one got any good mods to put on a ubuntu 12.04/12.10 system
<daftykins> what exactly do you define by 'mods'?
<dave101010> themes desklets screenlets tweaks desktoys any thing that makes it more fun to be on linux than it alredy is
<shauno> do go-faster stripes count?
<dave101010> lol yeah
<dave101010> is that on the case or the desktop
<daftykins> why not both, for good measure
<dave101010> lol i got a eeepc 701 900mhz cpu maby that is what i need
<dave101010> i made my eeepc look like a mac at the moment
<dave101010> got a few screenlets and caroi dock as well
<FLHerne> dave101010: KDE instead of Unity?
<dave101010> kdebuntu
<dave101010> i use gnome on ubuntu 12.04
<dave101010> i dont like unity all that much
<dave101010> i tried that joilos as well it is ok but a cpu hog for a clould os
<Azelphur> ali1234: 1st! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/December/2012-12-18-191727_1205x906_scrot.png
 * Azelphur hangs head in shame
<SuperEngineer> nearly time for a uupc? - you know, an Ubuntu UK Pantomime cast - whoopee! [I hope]
<MartijnVdS> nah, it's time for 144 hours of charity radio on Dutch public radio :)
<MartijnVdS> oooooh
<MartijnVdS> pulseaudio 3 has support for runtime filter parameter editing
<salzb>  #wrongplanet
<Azelphur> ali1234: you awake?
<Azelphur> I actually have a good USB question for you :p
<ali1234> sure
<Azelphur> ali1234: so someone wrote bitfenix recon drivers, in C++, only supports one recon though and I have two, so I've been trying to patch it
<ali1234> in english this means what?
<Azelphur> you remember, the funky fan controller we were playing with a while back
<ali1234> oh yeah
<Azelphur> so yea, it just picks the first one and connects to that, doesn't have any multi device support at all
<Azelphur> I'm trying to patch it, I managed to use hid_enumerate to loop through a list of devices
<Azelphur> hid_open seems to want a serial number, which I assume is what you should use to differentiate between multiple same devices connected
<Azelphur> but, the device serial number is null, so I can't do that
<Azelphur> so basically, I'm not sure how to open a specific device, but I can loop through them, \o/
<ali1234> is this libusb?
<Azelphur> I don't think so
<ali1234> most devices dont have a serial number
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/6ftr8d8P have some code :p
<Azelphur> line 18 through 33 are the part I'm playing with
<ali1234> show h file please...
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/SuYDTFtu looks like a bit of a stub for hidapi, I'll paste that too
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/YdMZB48d here's hidapi.h
<ali1234> use path to identify them
<ali1234> you need a factory for this really
<Azelphur> but hid_open doesn't take a path arg?
<ali1234> use hid_open_path then
<Azelphur> oh, that definitely sounds like the answer :D
<Azelphur> ty
<ali1234> all your code does not belong in the class
<ali1234> it goes in the factory function
<ali1234> which enumerates all devices and passes the paths to the constructor instead of the IDs
<ali1234> then it will return however many devices
<ali1234> probably in a vector
<Azelphur> hehe, this is just a temp hack really until they implement it properly
<Azelphur> or maybe I'll learn enough to make some sense of things, and redo it properly
<Azelphur> oO, I did it, got it workin :D
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-19
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> I have a problem with the grave key, the one above the tab button. I have to press it twice for it to work, it functions intermittently. Anyone else got this problem?
<pr0ph3t> I'm running Gnome-shell on ubuntu 12.10 64bit
<directhex> ```````````````
<Azelphur> , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
<daftykins> ||||||||||||||||||||
<daftykins> (can y'tell what it is yet?)
 * Azelphur has no idea
<daftykins> Rolf would know
<daftykins> Azelphur: how goes the 'office' work?
<Azelphur> hehe, atm I'm listening to the neighbours music through my feet :P
<daftykins> ouch
<daftykins> is it clear?
<Azelphur> pretty clear yea
<daftykins> =[
<daftykins> suddenly the cheap rent makes sense
<Azelphur> lol
<daftykins> are you off back to family for the hols at all?
<Azelphur> no way
<Azelphur> the music doesn't bother me too much anyway, I'm always wearing noise cancelling headphones
<daftykins> hehe
<Azelphur> I take my headphones off occasionally because I feel the vibration and I'm like "holy shit, that's loud"
<daftykins> just a bit of a rumble comes up then?
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> my new place has a little beauticians one side and a house the other, not sure what the neighbours are like
<daftykins> keep running into the current owner by accident in town though, he came up and said hi in a pub the other night
<daftykins> so no doubt i'll ask if it happens again XD
<Azelphur> fun
<daftykins> bit odd really, heh
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/xYphW.gif
<daftykins> that is ace.
<MartijnVdS> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> morning
<Laney> oh look
<Laney> my HDNL delivery lies and says it was delivered yesterday morning
<Laney> that apparently means 'given to a yodel driver'
<bigcalm> Hey kids :)
<bigcalm> An update on the delivery of my touch screen from Malaysia means little to me other than it's moved?
<kvarley> Can anybody recommend any routers for me which meet my needs? I'm in the UK. Has to have: ADSL2+; WiFi N at least 300mbps; dd-wrt or another firmware support. Would be nice to have: Detachable antennas.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<bigcalm> Tum te tum
<Myrtti> kvarley: NO BELKIN.
<bigcalm> VLC has got its santa hat on :)
<bigcalm> Lots of Google Maps plugins for WordPress - any recommendations?
<darren__> #css
<_serial_> hi all, has 12.10 become more stable?
<_serial_> better  question would be is anyone using 12.10 and how does the stability compare to 12.04.1
<kvarley> _serial_: I've seen a lot of people complaining about graphics card drivers in 12.10 but for me it's way more stable than 12.04.
<kvarley> _serial_: Try a live disc?
<_serial_> thank you for replying kvarley :)  I don't have driver issues regarding graphics.  I get frequent "theres a problem with your system" type messages compaired to 12.04.1 but I'm the type of guy who like new and shiny things :)
<_serial_> fyi i have a samsung rv510 with intel graphics
<popey> i see no difference in stability between 12.04 and 12.10
<popey> i have a few machines running both
<sprmtt> this
<kvarley> That's odd, I used to get loads of those app crash dialogues in 1204 but now I don't get them in 1210. I guess it depends on hardware?
<popey> those are mostly software related
<popey> apps crashing for whatever reasons
<kvarley> In my case I think it was apport
<popey> you can see the crashes listed at http://errors.ubuntu.com/
<popey> yes, apport is the dialog
<popey> whoopsie picks them up and reports them to daisy
<kvarley> popey: Been meaning to ask, do you work for Canonical?
<popey> i do
<kvarley> popey: :D
<ali1234> i got the opposite. 12.10 crashes much more than 12.04 did
<kvarley> Off topic - Just spotted a package with Ubuntu tape all over it in the mail, guess I know what I'm getting for xmas :)
<popey> hah
<ali1234> apport itself crashes less though so i don't get the "yo dawg we heard you like crashes so we put a crash report about your crash report that crashed" thing quite so much
<sprmtt> I've not had *crashes* in a while
<sprmtt> I say crashes, I mean that it never locks up on me
<ali1234> i have never seen linux lock up except when i was doing kernel development and did something silly like overwrite random pieces of memory
<ali1234> actually it used to lock up all the time about 10 years ago but that was due to nvidia driver being awful
<popey> i managed to lock up x a few times recently
<ali1234> i locked up the whole system by trying to use usbip the other day
<ali1234> it is marked as experimental though
<ali1234> speaking of bugs i've got bug 1067951 reproduced right now
<lubotu3> bug 1067951 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Firefox randomly loses window decoration in Gnome Classic (Compiz)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1067951
<ali1234> what debugging commands should i run?
<Knightwise> hey everyone
<Knightwise> popey: Do you know anyone in the community who is involved with the "Ubuntu on a nexus 7" project ?
<popey> yes
<popey> alex chiang
<popey> he's a canonical guy
<popey> he's the best guy to talk to
<Knightwise> Do you know where I might be able to contact him ? I would like to have him on the show for an interview
<popey> achiang on irc
<bigcalm> Yes, it's a repeat from earlier... Lots of Google Maps plugins for WordPress - any recommendations?
<Knightwise> thank you ?
<Knightwise> I meant thank you !
<Knightwise> :p Stupid keyboard !
<bigcalm> ?! being next to each other ;)
<Knightwise> Of course :p
 * Knightwise has a Wookie keyboard layout
<DJones> Ugh, that feels like 3 hours spent twiddling thumbs getting BCM 4311 working on xubuntu
<andylockran> hey all
<andylockran> I need an App Development company with a good rep - any recommendations?
<directhex> what kind of app?
<andylockran> iOS & Android
<andylockran> sorry for the delay
<diplo> Xmas hols, may catch you all soon. ttfn
<andylockran> ttfn
<Laney> it is now xmas for me too!
<Laney> to celebrate: THE PUB
 * Laney drapes tinsel and fairy lights on xnox
<xnox> Laney: Blobby Blobby Blobby =)))))
<daftykins> it comes to something when your own mother's smartphone she just upgraded *away* from is still newer than your own :O
<daftykins> when will this smartphone arms race end?
<directhex> never.
<directhex> for various raisins.
<directhex> phones have *always* been an arms race, although specifications didn't matter until the iphone shipped
<directhex> remember "xelibri", a brand siemens invented to just ship fashion phones every 6 months? you could tell how unhip someone was by the vintage of their phone
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> nah i don't recall that one
<directhex> http://www.visionmobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/Xelibri%20lineup.jpg
<daftykins> wow.
<daftykins> my only problem with my HTC Desire is that the apps storage is only 150MB, so you install a few and then your email accounts stop syncing 'cause there's no space left
<daftykins> so you move as many as you can onto the SD card instead, but it still trips up when updates come out
<daftykins> that's even rooted with cyanogenmod on too
 * xnox will get nexus4 in 4-5 weeks time.
<directhex> daftykins, it's a design cock-up of android to have hardcoded partition sizes that cannot be cleanly resized without erasing/recreating
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> i imagine i could get around it if i did some kind of mount change trickery
<directhex> and vendors being cheap by not leaving *any* headroom on their partitions
<daftykins> this must be a hardware limitation too, 'cause cyanogenmod would've fixed it otherwise
<daftykins> surely 0o
<daftykins> or perhaps they just don't repartition in their installation i suppose
<directhex> yes, tiny quantity of solid state
<daftykins> just done df-h in a terminal, my word there are a lot of mounts
<directhex> heh. webos used to do, like, 5 bind mounts every time you ran an app, but forgot to unmount them. ran out of file descriptors, hence "too many cards" error requiring reboot.
<daftykins> ah-ha
<daftykins> how unimpressive
<daftykins> i heard something on an anandtech podcast the other day that said, blackberry phones always boot so slowly because their boot sequence constantly misses timers so it's basically waiting all the time
<daftykins> pretty shocking given the amount of development surrounding them
<shauno> I don't get why everyone picks on RIM.  Surely the decent thing would be to let them die peacefully
<daftykins> shauno: haha, fair point. we have to watch them crash and burn in the new year with BB10 first though
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<daftykins> heya o/
<Azelphur> Anyone happen to know what the piece I can't identify is on this ikea galant desk? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/2012/December/0TBfU.jpg
<daftykins> not the screen stand but the sorta, cable trap along the back?
<daftykins> oic individual 'models'
<Azelphur> daftykins: I mean the big long chunk at the back
<Azelphur> yea, that's a galant combination desk
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> no idea i'm afraid :( i think getting the traffic lights will be far more important though :>
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> looks like a bit of a tv stand
<Azelphur> ali1234: no, I mean, the board underneath it
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/2012/December/desk.png that
<ali1234> it's a piece of wood
<daftykins> could almost be shelves even
<Azelphur> ali1234: it needs the subframe under it to mount onto the desk, otherwise it'd just fall down lol
<Azelphur> unless he did something custom
<daftykins> ooh a prog called 'data2sd' lets you move your /data partition on android to your SD card :D
<daftykins> http://www.andreagrandi.it/2011/08/13/howto-extend-htc-desire-internal-memory-to-2gb-using-cyanogenmod-7-and-data2sd/
<daftykins> very very handy
<daftykins> hopefully it doesn't slow the whole phone down to a halt in the process
<ali1234> well it definitely won't make it faster that's for sure
<daftykins> depends on the stats of the NAND vs. the SD card really
<ali1234> woah a new humble bundle is up and they have legend of grimrock
<ali1234> and it's compatible with linux
<ali1234> yes, do want
<daftykins> that must mean the email is about to do its' rounds to me
<ali1234> i have nt had the email yet
<ali1234> it must have just gone up
<daftykins> ah-ha
<ali1234> i just went to get my steam keys for the THQ bundle
<ali1234> because i was going to try to play them in wine
<ali1234> they seem to have a knack of knowing exactly when i am bored and very likely to buy stuff
<ali1234> and it's already in the software center too. amazing
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> i barely touched what i got when i bought one humble bundle
<ali1234> well the games are a bit hit and miss
<daftykins> played a little of the 'zen bound' android game
<ali1234> but i've been waiting for grimrock to properly come to linux for ages
<daftykins> and played all of darwinia, as i was stuck away from home on a laptop for a long time
<daftykins> ah i've not heard of that
<ali1234> i played zen bound for about 1 minute and then decided it sucked
<ali1234> nice idea, boring game
<ali1234> my favourite so far is super meat boy
<ali1234> i thought i would not like it, but it turned out to be great
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> played the XBLA demo of that, but i don't have the persistence to keep playing something like a platformer these days
<ali1234> lol, casual
<ali1234> actually you don't need persistence. it;s not as hard as it looks and it is structured in a way where you can skip levels so you don't have o sit and play it all day if you don't want to
<daftykins> ah
<ali1234> it could easily have been a really bad game if the controls weren't spot on or it forced you to do the levels in order
<ali1234> but it's executed perfectly
<daftykins> i seem to recall it was a bit of a pixel-perfect type, i think the demo had a level of spikes on a long falling section that you had to avoid
<ali1234> the game dustforce was in another bundle i got. it's basically the same game but nowhere near as well executed
<ali1234> yeah meat boy LOOKS really hard but it is decieving
<ali1234> the later levels actually are hard
<ali1234> but there's plenty of gameplay in the early ones. it has a good difficulty curve
<daftykins> ah-har, the email has arrived!
<dave101010> hi all
<dave101010> thanks for al the pis so far but i want to add unity themes to 12.10
<andylockran> yo
<dave101010> yo
<andylockran> ssh from top of 333 bus...
<andylockran> interesting on my android
<andylockran> very small
<AlanBell> hi andylockran :)
<andylockran> just popping through brixton. wave if you can see me
<andylockran> hey alan
<andylockran> hows things
<andylockran> yo dave10010101010101
<dave101010> lol
<andylockran> alighting bus in 2 ?mins
<andylockran> and its raining...
<andylockran> having a very very stressful week
<dave101010> it is raining on and off there in milton keynes too
<popey> AlanBell, have you ever considered punctuation?
<AlanBell> I like commas
<dave101010> telnet miku.acm.uiuc.edu
<dave101010> so sad
<dave101010> it is nyan cat
<AlanBell> popey: I can't see any epic sentences, there are commas and full stops all over the place
<popey> paragraphs would be nice
<popey> it's quite a wall of text
<popey> nice text though it is
<AlanBell> paragraph 1 is arguably a longish one
<popey> i went cross-eyed reading it
<popey> but I found my socks
 * AlanBell chops it into 3
<AlanBell> think I will add some socks too
<popey> AlanBell, http://popey.com/~alan/socks.png
<mgdm> I can recommend the ones third down on the far left
<mgdm> they are Warm As Fsck
<directhex> i have my graphics card back \o/
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/screenshots/socks.png
<daftykins> directhex: RMA?
<directhex> daftykins, yeah. took scan about 7 weeks to issue a partial (Â£126) refund on a dead 6970
<daftykins> crikey
<daftykins> only partial? that sounds a bit harsh
<daftykins> i've never had much respect for that company since when i phoned up enquiring about VAT removal, they said they'd just charge the exact same value as VAT, for the shipping
<daftykins> when asked 'why', the answer was 'because'
<directhex> scan only do partial refunds these days, on the basis that they "calculate you've had Â£X of value from it, so it's only worth Â£Y"
<directhex> which is bull tbh
<directhex> so i took their refund to ebuyer and bought a GTX660
<daftykins> :)
<directhex> also just bought her a dell u2713hm as a surprise late xmas present
<daftykins> crikey, some high-res for her
<directhex> when her hyundai 24" pva screen died, all we could find that was affordable was a 23" 1080p TN screen, and i was *never* happy with the downgrade
<popey> scan sent stolen goods to a friend of mine once
<AlanBell> Bug #1092341
<lubotu3> bug 1092341 in Ubuntu Website "http://people.ubuntu.com/favicon.ico is the old logo" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1092341
<daftykins> popey: wow
<daftykins> popey: how'd they discover that?
<popey> was a hard drive, it broke, they called manufacturer who said "no warranty on those, they're stolen"
<daftykins> :S
<popey> hmm
<popey> why does black mesa not run
<popey> installed, click play in steam, nothing happens
<AlanBell> nick hard drive, buy hard drive, RMA stolen hard drive get refund, one laundered drive? or was it in the supply chain?
<daftykins> source SDK 2007 base is required?
<daftykins> for black mesa
<popey> wat
<popey> really?
<daftykins> yesh
<popey> i thought only a source game like hl2 needed to be installed
<daftykins> err, i think some stuff usually pulls in the above
<daftykins> i can't be 100%
<popey> meh, will play hl2 instead
<daftykins> i still remember mooching the leak, ah so long ago
<daftykins> the graphics seemed so good at the time, that when you walked up to an untextured part it was as though the real world was pieced together in a similar way
<ali1234> AlanBell: i noticed...
<directhex> i can't get back into the swing of pc gaming, after 2 months off :x
<daftykins> i'm losing the interest to gaming in general
<directhex> freak!
<daftykins> D:
<directhex> cool kids all play videogames
<directhex> my wife is playing one RIGHT NOW
<popey> not true
<popey> i do too
<daftykins> ;)
<shauno> where I'm from, grumpy old men play video games now
<daftykins> ah i'm sure you get an honorary cool card, popey
<ali1234> grimrock is really good
<popey> not tried it yet
<ali1234> i am not disappointed
<popey> bought the bundle as always
<directhex> none of the bundle is on steam for linux :o
<directhex> someone should apply a spanking to valve to they apply a spanking to the relevant devs
<ali1234> but it's all in the software centre so who cares?
<ali1234> steam = tf2 launcher
<popey> heh, every single game I have, directhex has
<popey> except one
<ali1234> let me guess. train simulator?
<popey> ya :)
<directhex> ali1234, games from software centre SIGNIFICANTLY slow down apt updates
<popey> install, disable ppa, job done
<ali1234> hmm yeah i have noticed that actually. why does that happen?
<ali1234> but i want updates......
<directhex> ali1234, also, i use steam for matchmaking. if you work out how i can play multiplayer dungeon defenders with my friends without using steam invites, let me know
<popey> ppas are on launchpad
<popey> less infra than repos
<ali1234> just cos launchpad is slow?
<popey> well, not lp really
<ali1234> ok, just cos ppas are slow?
<popey> i dont think they scale as well as the repo
<popey> i know they've recently thrown more hardware at it
<popey> but it's not mirrored like the repo is
<popey> so everyone hits them
<ali1234> considering how often games ppas are (not) updated, you'd think it could just do like a http header check...
<ali1234> "like http 304 not modified"
<ali1234> and then not spend ages downloading it again
<popey> yeah, apt isn't really optimised for this use case
<ali1234> it would be so easy to do tho :(
<popey> that osx bell sound
<popey> i hear it a lot from the imac in the kitchen
<popey> it's always a cat
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> i'm considering whether or not i'm brave enough to do a hard disk -> SSD transplant on a clients iMac right now
<daftykins> apparently someone i know has the glass suction cup things :D
<popey> oooh, this is very nice
<ali1234> grimrock is a native port too... that's awesome. is this the first time it's been available on linux then?
<directhex> yes
<directhex> dungeon defenders is far more important though
<popey> i would like to do that on the imac
<directhex> unrealengine 3's debut
<popey> it's the only upgrade left it can have really
<daftykins> popey: what age model is it? this client's is a 3.06GHz i3 from mid-2010, 4GB of RAM at present and the 500GB mechanical
<ali1234> what famous games powered by unrealengine 3?
<directhex> most of them!
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-20
<directhex> arkham asylum/city
<ali1234> lol. i thought mst of them were source?
<directhex> bioshock
<directhex> source is only used in like 3 games other than hl2
<directhex> and other valve titles
<ali1234> 50 cent: blood on the sand. looking forward to that one :)
<directhex> borderlands. gears of war. mass effect.
<ali1234> borderlands?
<ali1234> ok, yeah, that's pretty important then
<ali1234> devil may cry
<directhex> i reckon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctum_(2011_video_game) could be a candidate for HIB8 now, if they get icculus to port it
<directhex> UE3 is popular for indies, it's very cheap for an AAA engine
<directhex> also http://www.unrealengine.com/en/showcase/
<ali1234> rise of the triad? i remember that game from DOS
<ali1234> ooo the new xcom game too
<directhex> http://www.unrealengine.com/udk/licensing/commercial_license_terms/ shows the pricing on the cut down version of UE3
<ali1234> hmm so a better question would be what games aren't either source or UE3?
<ali1234> battlefield and CoD spring to mind
<directhex> battlefield is "frostbyte 2" iirc, which is EA's engine of choice now (ME4 and DA3 will use it, for example)
<daftykins> *shakes fist at EA*
<directhex> all call of duty games use versions of the "IW Engine"
<directhex> well, not call of duty 1
<directhex> but 2 onwards
<ali1234> cryengine games too i guess
<directhex> cryengine is relatively fringe
<ali1234> and whatever bethesda uses
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryengine#CryEngine_3_2
<directhex> bethesda uses various versions of gamebryo, although they pretend it's not called that anymore, for their RPGs
<directhex> and iD are still making their own engines, although not really licensing them anymore
<ali1234> iD have always been good to linux though... well relatively speaking
<directhex> ubisoft has its own engine, called anvilnext nowadays
<ali1234> what is "dunia engine 2"
<directhex> rockstar have an engine called "rage" which is not to be confused with "id tech 5" used in the game "rage"
<directhex> dunia is ubisoft's fork of cryengine 1
<ali1234> hmm... yeah totally forgot about rockstar
<directhex> used in far cry 2 and 3
<ali1234> so still plenty of games to be ported
<directhex> as opposed to cryengine 2 and 3 used in crysis 1 and 2
<ali1234> valve using github for steam bug tracking?
<ali1234> it looks like 2013 might actually be the year of the linux desktop this time
<directhex> nowadays more games are using their own engines (compared to the early unrealengine and quake engine days), but a lot of them share middleware platforms, e.g. havok physics is in many many games
<directhex> year of the steambox. linux desktop comes along for the ride.
<popey> \o/ http://steamcommunity.com/games/221410/announcements/detail/1747660173332716773
<ali1234> steambox. chromebox. whatever
<ali1234> it's all linux
<daftykins> are loading times lovely under Steam on Linux?
<ali1234> not for TF2 they're not
<daftykins> aww
<ali1234> i don't have any other games on it
<popey> directhex, you had a 5450?
<ali1234> also i don't have windows to compare it to
<popey> i have a machine with steam on linux and on windows
<popey> not really noticed much difference
<popey> not looked for it though
<popey> oh look, steam client update
<daftykins> i just remember the loading time being amazing on a Linux native install of whichever UT it was that did that
<daftykins> 2003 maybe
<directhex> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/15502w/the_big_updated_list_of_which_steam_for_linux/
<directhex> upvotes plz!
<popey> oh dear, the linux section is broken for me
<popey> "Uninitialized" everywhere
<directhex> :o debs!
<directhex> http://repo.steampowered.com/steam/
<popey> "The package is of bad quality"
<popey> Use of uninitialized value $ENV{"HOME"} in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/bin/lintian line 108.
<popey> E: steam: malformed-deb-archive found 4 members instead of 3
<popey> tsk tsk
<ali1234> wasn't it always in debs?
<popey> not in the original beta
<popey> when it opened to 80K people it did, yes
<neuro> 00:14 <ali1234> it looks like 2013 might actually be the year of the linux desktop this time
<neuro> BWAHAHAHAHAHA
<popey> you have that phrase on highlight? :)
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/BNspf.jpg
<daftykins> gotta love the mr.kipling seasonal feeling
<neuro> popey, no i just happened to look at the scrollbacj
<neuro> s/cj/ck/
<popey> heh, you should see the one we got a few christmasses ago which had plastic IN the mince pie
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> that's not festive, that's not festive at all!
<daftykins> did you send off with a complaint to get some freebies? :)
<popey> dunno, it was AlanBells
<popey> http://twitpic.com/3i6gfy
<daftykins> whoa :o
<popey> gosh, that long ago
<daftykins> time, eh :(
<popey> I was in my thirties when I took that :(
<daftykins> i'm getting dangerously close to my 30s
<daftykins> it's a bit scary
<daftykins> i've still managed to resist growing up, though i've bought a place locally now, so baby-steps...
<popey> locally being?
<popey> mainland?
<daftykins> nah Guernsey
<daftykins> i sold up over on the mainland
<popey> oh you're back on the island?
<daftykins> yep, now i'm poor due to the vast difference in property cost :)
<daftykins> i've been back since i graduated in '08
<daftykins> fair bit of travel in the last few years though
<popey> right, I'm getting uglier by the second, need my beauty sleep!
<popey> nn
<daftykins> \o
<bigcalm> Good early morning peeps
<popey> pip pip
<TheOpenSourcerer> afternoonings
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/12/microsoft-offers-patches-to-webkit-to-aid-touch-compatibility/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Like it - MS are effectively challenging Apple to open up.
<TheOpenSourcerer> check your (apache) servers? http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/12/apache-plugin-turns-legit-sites-into-bank-attack-platforms/
<popey> \o/ lighttpd :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's a really clever module - lots of tricks to avoid admin detection..
<TheOpenSourcerer> What none of the links say is how to identify if you have it or not :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> It sounds unlikely but hey ho.
<czajkowski> aloha
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning czajkowski
<czajkowski> ello TheOpenSourcerer all set for Christmas?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope :-D
<Myrtti> meh
<JamesTait> Morning all! o/
<dwatkins> mornin!
<solarcloud_3scrn> AlanBell, Nice post on The Open Sourcerer 'Privacy is hard. Lets go shopping!' .. I'm checking my amazon EC2- tor account just now, but I'll read it in full later :) http://wp.me/phA9d-R4
 * solarcloud_3scrn wonders why no picture of the multicolor socks came with the email .. like his other Wpress email (??) http://wp.me/p9k-63Z
 * Laney remains in bed
<solarcloud_3scrn> Was that a slight net-split 3-mins ago ?
<DJones> Certainly was
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<solarcloud_3scrn> brobostigon, morning All.
<brobostigon> morning solarcloud_3scrn
<mungojerry> can any parents tell me if the "terrible twos" ends at 3rd birthday?
 * mungojerry hopes so
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> mungojerry: that bad
<mungojerry> massive screaming tantrums, hissy fits, smacking himself, smashing stuff up
<mungojerry> at the smallest thing
<czajkowski> how do ye deal with it? give him notice or repremand him?
<mungojerry> depends on the severity of tantrum
<czajkowski> note I don't have kids, but have been baby sitting since i was 15
<mungojerry> removal of privileges, time out in bedroom, smack (don't really work while tantrum is going on)
<czajkowski> not the same thing though I handed them back
<czajkowski> current little counsin is 3 and a bit and has a temper on her, when she pulls a strop and cries and screams I walk way from her and no attention given, she calms down much faster
 * czajkowski has no tolerance for tantrums 
<czajkowski> not letting a kid dictate to me :)
<mungojerry> he had time out in room yesterday...trashed it
<mungojerry> we don't give in, so we are setting boundaries
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> has to be hard
<mungojerry> he is quite feisty but hopefully will grow up knowing right from wrong and not givign in to peer pressure
<mungojerry> my wife and I are quite similar
<mungojerry> apparently i was a "spirited" child
<mungojerry> my dad couldn't smack it out of me either
<mungojerry> but when all my mates turned into massive druggies as teenagers, i didn't want to compromise my principles, so i thank my parents for that
<czajkowski> nods
<mungojerry> just hope they stop soon
<czajkowski> mungojerry: just the one ye have ?
<mungojerry> yeah , another due in march :D
<AlanBell> it can get better, or the tantrums get further apart mungojerry
<mungojerry> i remember someone in here saying they could count tantrums between 2-3 on one hand. (christel?) i have multiple per day.
<mungojerry> potty training at the mo, so increased tension
<AlanBell> fun when you get called into school to discuss fighting with boys in the class
<Daviey> AlanBell: They called to say they weren't doing enough of it?
<popey> mungojerry, when our kids were naughty it was the naughty step
<popey> room is a bad idea because thats where toys are
<popey> naughty step for 1 minute per their age
<AlanBell> Daviey: they called to say she has to stop
<popey> mungojerry, friend of mine did potty training by rewarding each success with a very tiny reward. she gave a single piece of brio train track. so started with nothing and by the end was able to build a decent track
<popey> we never really had tantrums though, especially not multiple times a day
<mungojerry> the potty training is working, but i think it's making him more grouchy, especially grim weather at the mo
<popey> what time is bed time / getting up time?
<mungojerry> 7.30-8am get up, go bed 6.15-6.30pm
<mungojerry> but he recently dropped his morning snooze
<czajkowski> maybe that's why he;s a bit more tired
<czajkowski> hmmm latest updates on 12.10 is causing me no end of woes on compiz crashes, bt it wont open up a crash report for me to follow up on it :/
<popey> czajkowski, apt-cache policy compiz
<popey> pastebin it pls
<czajkowski> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1452141/
<czajkowski> best tool you ever told me to install pastebinit
<popey> what triggers a compiz crash for you?
<czajkowski> nothing specific, alt tabbing loading rhythmbox up, plugging phone in and then unmounting it
<czajkowski> so not one specific thing
<TheHustle> hello
<popey> hmmm
<popey> what if you do "ubuntu-bug compiz"
<popey> does that let you file a bug?
<czajkowski> lemmie try
<czajkowski> as what is happening now is  is the usual dialogue box pops up
<czajkowski> compix has crashed
<czajkowski> want to submit data
<czajkowski> and it goes into a loop and then never opens up
<popey> never opens up?
<czajkowski> have done a lot of updates this week, it's been quiet up till
<popey> its not supposed to open up
<czajkowski> in a browswer
<czajkowski> to the bug
<popey> not supposed to
<czajkowski> oh
<TheHustle> I'm at the command line in ubuntu, could someone tell me please how to make an image of my cd to .cue, thank yyou.
<popey> it submits the crash to daisy
<czajkowski> how am I mean to find the bug
<popey> you aren't
<czajkowski> oh
<czajkowski> *confused*
<popey> something crashes, apport detects that and writes out a crashdump
<czajkowski> nods
<popey> whoopsie spots it and if you're online will ask if you want to submit it
<popey> if you click the buttons and don't just kill the window, it submits to daisy
<popey> and will be in http://errors.ubuntu.com/ somewhere
<czajkowski> right
<popey> then the backend reports a bug for you
<popey> but you dont worry about that, it gets taken care of
<popey> however if you _want_ to file a bug, then ubuntu-bug <packagename>
<czajkowski> problem is A) the window seems to stay open but you've no idea whats happening or when it's over
<czajkowski> b) is a bug created from that report and if so are you added to it ?
<popey> ok, hang on..
<popey> does compiz _actually_ crash, i mean do the windows go mental?
<popey> or do you just keep getting the popup?
<popey> compiz crashing looks like the windows lose their decoration temporarily and the launcher disappears for a couple of seconds
<czajkowski> windows go mental
<popey> ok
<czajkowski> and then I cant alt tab between then
<popey> do this:-
<czajkowski> as it keeps saying compiz neds to restart
<popey> ls -l /var/crash | pastebinit
<czajkowski> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1452164/
<popey> ok, so the crash you had has been uploaded
<popey> -rw-r----- 1 czajkowski whoopsie 14636852 Dec 19 17:32 _usr_bin_compiz.1000.crash
<popey> -rw-rw-r-- 1 czajkowski whoopsie        0 Dec 19 17:33 _usr_bin_compiz.1000.upload
<popey> -rw------- 1 whoopsie   whoopsie        0 Dec 20 10:39 _usr_bin_compiz.1000.uploaded
<popey> you had a crash yesterday
<czajkowski> nods
<Laney> echo http://errors.ubuntu.com/user/$(sudo printf /sys/devices/virtual/dmi/id/product_uuid | sha512sum)
<popey> ok, lets clear that out and start fresh
<popey> oh nice Laney
<Laney> if you can view crashes (bug control?) you can see your submitted stuff there
<popey> czajkowski, sudo rm -rf /var/crash/*
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<popey> and yeah, pm me the output of what laney said
<popey> and I'll find your crash reports
<popey> shows none for me Laney, you sure about that?
<Laney> ish
<popey> i dont see czajkowski's either
<Laney> ok, try making it: printf $(sudo cat /sys/class/dmi/id/product_uuid) | sha512sum
<popey> huh
<popey> wont let me login
<TheOpenSourcerer> ping popey
<popey> pong
<TheHustle> can i make an image of my cd @ the command line, please?
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you saw a list of products from SAP that had a column "Issue Type" with Inter and Back in it, what would you think they mean?
<czajkowski> TheHustle: what do you mean ?
<popey> aha! thats better
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer, got a url?
<TheOpenSourcerer> no - a csv file ;-)
<TheHustle> czajkowski: I have a CD, I don't want to risk loosing the important data, i would like to make a 1:1 .bin file of it
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's a table of some products.
<TheHustle> at the command line
<TheOpenSourcerer> The other columns make sense. If you don't know never mind I will ask the customer - at least it's not something taht's totally obvious.
<popey> bah, can see your error reports czajkowski but can't click the individual ones :(
<czajkowski> TheHustle: not sure this is of help to you but have you looked at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CdDvd/Burning
<czajkowski> popey: this is all a bit confusing :( this is wy I like LP ;)
<popey> what's confusing?
<czajkowski> not as easy to find - I know it's there but just I guess not as intutitive.
<popey> you're not supposed to
<popey> thats the point
<czajkowski> cool
<czajkowski> well now I know
<czajkowski> cheers for the help popey
<TheHustle> czajkowski, thank you
<BigRedS> Anyone know of a good shop (or shops) in London to go to to look at and buy outdoorsy knives? Â£50-Â£70ish
<Laney> find an army surplus store
<bigcalm> BigRedS: try a scuba diving shop
<BigRedS> Oooh, not thought of scuba diving
<bigcalm> I remember the knifes my parents used to own. Huge and vicious looking things
<BigRedS> ah, yeah, a sheath knife rather than a folding one. Most surplus places only do folding knioves, though I think crews hill does sheathes
<brobostigon> i have a leatherman, myself.
<Myrtti> I want a thing to cut yarn with but so far the best suggestion has been a box of dental floss
<BigRedS> cut yarn with dental floss?
<BigRedS> :)
<bigcalm> I was wondering that myself
<Myrtti> most tiny leatherman have knives in them
<czajkowski> BigRedS: what are you up to ?
<BigRedS> haha, it's for a friend!
<Myrtti> so they might be confiscated at airports
<BigRedS> Myrtti: ahhh, leatherman used to do an airport-friendly knife. Style? Either way, I find it easiest to put anything remotely tool-looking in the hold
<Myrtti> yeah well the point is that I might actually knit in the plane
<Myrtti> Check this out on AMZN:
<Myrtti> Clover Yarn Cutter Pendant Antique Silver
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0058UDEC8/ref=cm_sw_r_an_am_ap_am_gb?ie=UTF8
<czajkowski> BigRedS: cant go wrong on amazon
<Myrtti> even that might get confiscated apparently
<Myrtti> as it is a rotary blade
<Myrtti> (sorry about the sucky paste)
<BigRedS> czajkowski: yeah, he wants to ask somebody which kife to get, though
<BigRedS> Oh! That sort of yarn!
<BigRedS> This is all making sense now. I'd pictured you as some travelling net-maker or something. :)
<Myrtti> hehe, nono
<Myrtti> http://www.ravelry.com/projects/Myrtti/haruni it ended up being very Ubuntuish in colours
<BigRedS> oh wow
<Myrtti> which was fitting because it was for elky
<AlanBell> czajkowski: popey: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2832 Aldershot!
<popey> ooh!
<Seeker`> ~o/
<czajkowski> oh :)
<popey> saw this and thought of czajkowski http://imgur.com/gallery/Ptnzd
<bigcalm> o.O
<directhex> http://store.steampowered.com/about/ is very linuxy now
<bigcalm> Something don't install for me :(
<bigcalm> +s
<popey> heh, nice!
<popey> directhex, see system requirements in bottom right
<mgdm> heheh
<bigcalm> Oops
<sprmtt> 39 games just isn't enough for linux :(
<bigcalm> Games seem quite expensive once again
<popey> it's still in beta
<sprmtt> I don't mind the cost of a game... if it's good
<directhex> popey, the giant "join the steam beta" penguin is on *all* versions of that page, not just linux
<popey> most of the games in my steam thing came from humble bundle
<directhex> i.e. the "Not running on Linux yet? Grab Ubuntu 12.04 LTS" download is shown to every single man woman & child trying to download steam on windows right now
<popey> sweet!
<czajkowski> popey: ROFLOL
<bigcalm> Would be nice to add games via the website
<popey> now we need to badger indiecity for their linux client
<popey> oddly they made one for RPi
<czajkowski> popey: you free for a quick call?
<popey> ya
<popey> 5 mins, just packing everyone out
<czajkowski> cool
<czajkowski> invite sent join whenever
<Azelphur> I'm thinking of buying this ikea galant combination desk, thoughts? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/2012/December/layout.png :P
<directhex> my desk is galant#
<directhex> your office is about a million miles square if it has room for that
<dogmatic69> maybe someone here could help (if you worked on / know gfx drivers) http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13975917/calculate-colour-temperature-in-k
<Azelphur> directhex: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pvltgec8fm4jtpo/2012-12-20%2015.54.15.jpg is the clearance, haha
<dogmatic69> The gfx card configs normally show temperature.. its a long shot
<popey> czajkowski, i broke hangouts
<n1md4> hi there.  anyone know which config to check to see if auto-updates has been configured.  I've not had to update a system for a long time now, it's getting suspicious ;)
<dave101010> steam for linux
<Azelphur> firefox for linux
<dave101010> fire fox is a natural par but steam was relaies today
<Azelphur> open beta, fun
<dave101010> yeah tyr omgubntu or google buut i just got it
<Azelphur> I've been in the closed beta for a while :P
<dave101010> you lucky b!"Â£$%d
<Azelphur> :)
<dave101010> i want to go closed betea twice but they did not acsept me
<dave101010> thaey are adding new games and software all the time so soon it will be so good on ubuntu
<dave101010> welcome back fwerede
<dogmatic69> in C, Temperature_to_RGB(*T, testRGB); after that call T would be changed by the Temperature_to_RGB() function right?
<dogmatic69> that is by reference or something?
<dave101010> i think so
<AlanBell> anyone running gnome shell and want to test an extension?
<ubuntubhoy> OK
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/shopping.zip
<AlanBell> you should be able to download that, and use the gnome-tweak tool to add it
<ubuntubhoy> done, what should it do ?
<AlanBell> you should then be able to hit super (to go to overview mode) and type something like "a hot sauce" or "a green shoes"
<ubuntubhoy> K
<AlanBell> not sure if it will require you to restart gnome-shell or not
<ubuntubhoy> hmm, nothing
<ubuntubhoy> also, should it show in the extensions list
<AlanBell> try alt-f2 r
<ubuntubhoy> cause it ain't there
<AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/local/ not there?
<ubuntubhoy> showing, and active
<ubuntubhoy> but only apps, settings and contacts are showing
<ubuntubhoy> when I search
<ubuntubhoy> lost connection
<ubuntubhoy> did you get that previous
<ubuntubhoy> but only apps, settings and contacts are showing
<ubuntubhoy> ^^
<AlanBell> ok, thanks ubuntubhoy
<ubuntubhoy> AlanBell: you forgot to say I needed the 'a'
<ubuntubhoy> its working
<AlanBell> yay
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<AlanBell> in the settings you can remove the "a" or change it
<AlanBell> if you remove the "a" prefix then it works like the unity shopping lens and searches for everything you type
<ubuntubhoy> I think I will change it
<ubuntubhoy> don't want it all the time
<ubuntubhoy> shop will probably suffice
<ubuntubhoy> AlanBell: you should allow multiple sources
<ubuntubhoy> rather than just one
<AlanBell> maybe
<ubuntubhoy> I would use it if I could add ebay
<ubuntubhoy> would be quite handy then
<AlanBell> yeah, I would like to do that
<AlanBell> nah, loadsa terms and conditions for using the ebay API from a downloadable application
<ali1234> http://www.grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4571 <- can anyone confirm this?
<ubuntubhoy> bummer
<Myrtti> wohoo! it turns out I'm not supposed to eat sprouts because they increase blood clotting. WIN!
<ubuntubhoy> AlanBell: one other slight omission from your extension - the price should really be on the results
<AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: yeah, it should, I think below the image or something
<ubuntubhoy> as long as it stands out
<ubuntubhoy> maybe even just a larger bolder font
<cocoa117> has anyone noticed when you using inotifywait program for notification when the file is created and closed. If the file is big like 4G, and take a while for scp to copy it over to the machine, you still get close_nowrite event, and even you somehow move the file to different folder, the scp continues without issue
<cocoa117> is this the supports to happen?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> you can move an open file without invalidating the file descriptor on linux
<ali1234> in fact you can even delete it
<ali1234> for example, download a large file in firefox and accidentally deleted the file half way through downloading?
<ali1234> firefox will continue downloading
<ali1234> you can still access the file in /proc/`pidof firefox`/fd/
<ali1234> it will disappear as soon as the file finishes downloading though
<ali1234> what you need to do is tail -c +0 /proc/`pidof firefox`/fd/<fd> > myfile
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-21
<solarcloud_3scrn> He's not the End of the world he's a very naughty, naughty new-Epoch.
<Goshawk> Is it possible to run an xbox on a pc with linux and if so, how would i go about it?
<Goshawk> Would it be as simple as getting an adaptor plug for the screen? Or could I run it through the desktop?
<popey> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've just been reading about Backflushing :-)
<kvarley> Can anybody recommend any good guides/tutorials on how to setup a PC as a firewall? The system will be running Ubuntu server.
<kvarley> join /networking
<JamesTait> Happy end-of-the-world day, everyone! :-D
<czajkowski> aloha
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<kvarley> brobostigon: \o
<brobostigon> morning kvarley
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<kvarley> How goes it?
<brobostigon> not bad overall, and you?
<kvarley> Pretty good :)
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> Looking for an SD card for my RPi - will one from Tesco do or should I look deeper into possibilities?
<brobostigon> bigcalm: i think, it has to be sdhc, and i would go for as higher class card as possible, to get as higher speeds as possible.
<bigcalm> brobostigon: has this been proved? I hear tales of some higher classes not providing the same through put as some lower class ones
<brobostigon> bigcalm: no idea, i am theorising,
<bigcalm> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<mungojerry> `recobutton
<mungojerry> sorry i pressed my green button while irc was focused
<dwatkins> how could you?
<popey> bigcalm, pretty sure it's documented on their wiki
<sprmtt> wow, rosa is a kde based distro that doesn't suck
<bigcalm> Humm, boot from an sdcard, run the os from a usb memory stick
<mungojerry> can i disable areas of RAM for a laptop with soldered on memory?
<mungojerry> memtest is puking at 129MB
<shauno> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/memtest86+/+bug/1071209
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1071209 in memtest86+ (Ubuntu Quantal) "memtest86+ test #7 false positives (random number sequence error)" [Medium,In progress]
<shauno> I'd take a look at that first.  129 may not be a coincidence
<mungojerry> thanks man :D
<mungojerry> may have saved some effort
<mungojerry> it was with lubuntu 12.10 usb stick
<mungojerry> better put this beast back together
<mungojerry> my lubuntu install was not working but may be unrelated
<mungojerry> its a bad bug tho
<shauno> I would say it's just misleading.  but we tend to trust memtest enough that most people would be inclined to replace hardware before they start to suspect it
<directhex> mungojerry, fwiw, yes, you can
<directhex> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BadRAM
<solarcloud_3scrn> TheOpenSourcerer, Nice post .. just got the email... https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/She%20sells%20sea%20Shells.pdf
<oimon> anyone know what repos are in a default debian install?
<oimon> ran a minimal install without a net connection
<oimon> thought i could run the mirror chooser later but can't find it
<brobostigon> http.debian.net :)
<oimon> huh?
<brobostigon> that is the mirror chooser.
<oimon> what's the entries in sources.list please?
<oimon> i have deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main
<brobostigon> deb http://http.debian.net/debian stable main
<brobostigon> for example.
<oimon> hm, getting 404s
<brobostigon> deb http://http.debian.net/debian/ stable main
<brobostigon> i think you need that extra backslash
<oimon> ah ok thanks
<oimon> working now cheers :D
<brobostigon> :D
<oimon> have an ancient laptop thats just gonna be a weechat client
<brobostigon> ah
<oimon> obviously it flies in console mode, may even risk lxde but it has 256mb and i can't find my stash
<brobostigon> :(
<oimon> what's a lighter wm i could use? the tiling ones shouldn't use much RAM?
<oimon> maybe i don't need WM tbh
<brobostigon> screen :)
<brobostigon> byobu. :)
<oimon> or big borther byobu
<oimon> yep:P
<solarcloud_3scrn> oimon, Be sure to post on the G+comm. https://plus.google.com/106290022487312285099/posts/5yhh1z2jakZ if you do.
<oimon> sorry, got confused, if i do what?
<solarcloud_3scrn> later dude.
<oimon> :-\
<solarcloud_3scrn> "have an ancient laptop" , oimon .
<oimon> what is that g+ profile about?
<solarcloud_3scrn> just a gmail thingy, shouldn't worry about it. (not like youtube where they give you a profile name or anything).
<oimon> i have a eee pc 701 in one site connecting to a inspiron 1000 laptop at the other site
<oimon> running irc
<solarcloud_3scrn> Probablybest if I send you a screenshooterist, hangon...
<oimon> unlike my "new" laptop which i just realised is nearly 5 years old
<oimon> although the battery in it is bad, the rest of it is v good
<mungbean> hello
<oimon> hello
<solarcloud_3scrn> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Scrreenshot.png
<mgdm> dammit, my 3-month-old laptop battery has died
<oimon> thats bad
<oimon> but "good" in that they are covered by 1yr warranty right?
<brobostigon> time bandits, film4, in 3 mins. :)
<mgdm> well, given it was an eBay special, I'm not sure
<oimon> ship date on the inspiron 1000 was 06/04/2005
<oimon> not bad, shame about the low mem
<solarcloud_3scrn> oimon, did you get that lat post ?
<oimon> ah i see.
<oimon> on the profile page i just aw a post about a eee pc
<solarcloud_3scrn> oimon, thought it was pertintent.
<oimon> i haven't used the g+ communities yet
<solarcloud_3scrn> oimon, You don't need to .. just tell us here with dropbox and I'll post the pic for you :)
<oimon> shauno: ran memtest on the box now that debian installed, runs fine. thanks for that, i nearly destroyed a pc, cos the lubuntu installer wasn't working, and the bad memtest errors were on soldered mem
<oimon> i have lxde on my super fast box at work, but it's a bit glitchy with xcompmgr and owncloud client crashes regularly with it
<solarcloud_3scrn> oimon, lxde is the lubuntu- Desktop Environment, I have it on my Amilo.
<oimon> yep
<solarcloud_3scrn> oimon, What IRC client are you running.. gnomeIRC/pidgin/Xchat-WDK ?
<solarcloud_3scrn>        ... I'm thnkin' BenQ issues
<shauno> oimon: glad to hear it :)  the 129 bit just rang a bell
<solarcloud_3scrn> oimon, yeah, I lost a Lindy Displayport Adapter just now
<oimon> solarcloud_3scrn: on this laptop pidgin, on the ancient ones weechat
<oimon> at work, xchat
<solarcloud_3scrn> scanning ..weechat
<oimon> my son just asked me to put uncle buble on the telly
<oimon> weechat is like irssi
<solarcloud_3scrn> weechat  source http://www.weechat.org/files/src/weechat-0.3.9.2.tar.gz , tasks https://savannah.nongnu.org/task/?group=weechat , devkit http://dev.weechat.org/ , Savannah http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/weechat/ , G+ https://plus.google.com/102544516035551247301
<solarcloud_3scrn> looks god so far ... never used irissi/weechat except on W$indows-XP/Home.
<solarcloud_3scrn> **good
<oimon> has anyone tried the free servers from chunkhost?
<solarcloud_3scrn> Nah, I'm 4k under today as it is. Although you could get me onto their email list if you want (PM'd me)
<solarcloud_3scrn> I mostly use spideroak on the Amilo anyhow :)
<bigcalm> Is there a web cam viewing app for debian that doesn't require a bazillion other packages? Required for my RPi
<solarcloud_3scrn> oimon, I've  PM'd you.
<oimon> hey did you just that that weechat up solarcloud_3scrn?
<oimon> that looks a cool setup
<solarcloud_3scrn> it was on the G+comm. page
<oimon> i saw the pics, look ince
<oimon> nice
<solarcloud_3scrn> Yeah , use ** 4 corrections..
<solarcloud_3scrn> **for
<solarcloud_3scrn> oimon, FY.I the G+comm. is now here .. https://plus.google.com/communities/104181302778416960107
<oimon> wow i never thought i'd have to do ndiswrapper again until now
<brobostigon> p/win 7
<oimon> or use a pcmcia card
<popey> retro
<popey> i found an old pcmcia network card the other day, couldn't bring myself to bin it
<oimon> the laptop i'm setting up doesn't need wifi , but for setup purposes, is handy
<oimon> toddler + 10m cable = fun
<brobostigon> yank. woops.
<oimon> it is toddler proof in that one end is broken clip
<oimon> hence not broken laptop port
<brobostigon> ah.
<oimon> argh i don't think wpa-2 is supported
<jacobw> evening
<DJones> I think I've got 2 pcmcia cards in a box in the loft
<MartijnVdS> wow pcmcia cards
<MartijnVdS> haven't seen those for years :)
<daftykins> i've still got a Pentium III 400MHz Dell ultra-portable laptop that has one for its' wireless :o
<daftykins> i don't want to throw out that machine either :(
<KrimZon_2> what's the fix for when the hard disk keeps switching off and on in linux?
<KrimZon_2> the power saving issues
<solarcloud_3scrn> Crumbs that's a hard one  ::: Anyone remember this guy (??) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BonziBUDDY (???)
<ali1234> solarcloud_3scrn: YES
<ali1234> how could i forget?
<ali1234> KrimZon_2: some hdparm magic. be careful not to low level format your disk though
<solarcloud_3scrn> ali1234, He hasn't tweeted in a-while :: https://twitter.com/REAL_BonziBUDDY
<ali1234> i like to compare new-fangled desktop environments to him when i'm feeling uncharitable
<ali1234> someone should make a bonzibuddy lens
<ali1234> is that even possible? can we draw whatever into the dash through a plugin?
<ali1234> or just send a list of results? (boring)
<ali1234> i think i once asked about putting a shell into the dash
<ali1234> and the answer was no :(
<solarcloud_3scrn> ali1234, I think it was just trying to get the right kinda hue .. http://www.meethue.com/en-US/getstarted
<ali1234> One reader was quoted as criticizing the program because it "kept popping up and obscuring things you needed to see." - sounds like windows 8, ba-zing!
<solarcloud_3scrn> Web-Link ??
<ali1234> it's on the wikipedia page you linked
<ali1234> it sounds like windows 8 because http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYet-qf1jo
<solarcloud_3scrn> oh, that .. I got it from eopinions http://www.epinions.com/cmsw-EmailChat-All-Bonzi_Buddy?sb=1
<solarcloud_3scrn> ali1234, just at 16:25 of your ytu.be video .. 'Index of UX guidlines' .. UX .. I think if anyone from Ubuntu mentioned that , everyone would have a field-day !!?!
<ali1234> unity isn't anywhere near as bad as metro
<solarcloud_3scrn> ali1234, What does UX meaning to you ??
<ali1234> user experience
<solarcloud_3scrn> right, .. so you've a book with UX in the title on your shelf , right ??
<ali1234> hmm... i have "3D User Interfaces In Java"
<ali1234> that talks a lot about user experience (ie expectations and communication)
<solarcloud_3scrn> ali1234, It's a Yes or No Question.
<ali1234> though the phrase wasn't really in common use back then
<ali1234> back then it was just called "GUI design"
<ali1234> then No
<solarcloud_3scrn> Are you Morrocan, or something ?
<ali1234> no?
 * solarcloud_3scrn bangs his head on his french desk.
<solarcloud_3scrn> ali1234, If you have no book titled *UX* then how can you know anything about Desktop Environments ?
<SuperEngineer> solarcloud_3scrn: I have no book about gravity - but, trust me, I do know everything about it ;)
<solarcloud_3scrn> EngineerÃS, ali1234 ~fails to address the gravitas of the situation he presents, he wants food and it's like we're feeding him.
<AlanBell> ali1234: basically just results: image, title, subtitle
<AlanBell> gnome-shell on the other hand you can put in pretty much anything using the st toolkit
<solarcloud_3scrn> How do I file bugs about an Ubuntu game again ? Can't maximise window in this one .. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/ubuntu%20Meerkat%20Beneathe%20a%20Steele%20Sky.png
<daftykins> it's low-res, i doubt you'd want to maximise it :D
<daftykins> good ol' scumm
<dwatkins> yeah, you'd have to log the bug against scummvm
<dwatkins> It might be alt+enter, but I assume you've tried that, solarcloud_3scrn
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-22
<solarcloud_3scrn> daftykins, dwatkins , Not sure if this is any easier .. but the Maximise option is missing (where the cursor is)  .. /Any/ bugs.yubuntu.com loggers outta there ???
<Azelphur> Trying to install Ubuntu, just hangs here forever https://www.dropbox.com/s/1fgfc3fost5je7l/2012-12-22%2000.03.44.jpg?m any ideas?
<solarcloud_3scrn> daftykins, dwatkins, Azelphur , Oh forgot the Web-Link (soz) ... https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Ubuntu%20Beneath%20a%20Steele%20Sky%20Screenshot%20Dec%202012.pdf
<daftykins> like i said, low-res games are low-res
<solarcloud_3scrn> daftykins, I do want to maximise it . and bring it up to Ten Inches to fit my screen .. I was looking for a way to find the game in the ubuntu bug logs .. can someone search it for me and post a Web-Link Plz . ?
<daftykins> do you not get what i'm saying?
<solarcloud_3scrn> I do understand exactly what your saying [ Computer says /No/] but I just lost mt bookmarks in bugzilla so I don't know where the bugslist for Ubuntu is based ?
<daftykins> no it's more that the game is a very low-res one, so scaling would look nasty
<Azelphur> it seemed to be caused by me not having a mouse  plugged in
<Azelphur> that's an odd issue xD
<daftykins> Azelphur: ah didn't even see your message :o
<daftykins> lolz hardware failure
<Azelphur> no hardware failure XD
<daftykins> surely you're not upgrading your multi-screened beast? :>
<Azelphur> nah, I bought a TV :D
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> ah that cheap one showed up?
<daftykins> tut tut, opening it before Christmas
<Azelphur> hehe
<solarcloud_3scrn> AAAAAhh , https://bugs.launchpad.net got it !
<solarcloud_3scrn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.searchtext=Beneath+A+Steel+Sky&search=Search+Bug+Reports&field.scope=all&field.scope.target=
<Azelphur> daftykins: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kmyiqi66wgcbswf/2012-12-22%2000.26.26.jpg?m
<Azelphur> :D
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> loving your cabinet ;)
<daftykins> wow that's one relic mouse you've cracked out :>
<Azelphur> daftykins: what cabinet? ;)
<daftykins> my point exactly 8D
<Azelphur> yea, I can't find my USB mouse, it's around someplace
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> yea, need to get a cabinet, things on the todo list
<daftykins> i might get a custom job
<daftykins> keep those satellites separated enough
<ali1234> azelphur that is a known bug
<Azelphur> ali1234: fun, is it actually caused by the lack of a mouse?
<ali1234> https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?shva=1#label/Ubuntu/13b2372f613d9057
<ali1234> oops
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1081632
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1081632 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity hangs forever if you try to install on a computer with Mint 14 installed." [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> no, it's caused by having an linux distro already installed
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> yea, I had an old Ubuntu installed
<ali1234> i'm not sure exactly which other distros can cause it
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> that's a bit of a showstopper
<ali1234> yeh really
<Azelphur> http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/black-glass-tv-stand/1003567939 might get this cabinet, looks quite nice
<ali1234> no furniture. just a 55" TV and computer.
<Azelphur> ali1234: welcome to my priorities
<Azelphur> ali1234: never mind that, I had my computer up and internet connected waaaaaaaaay before I had essentials like...a fridge, or a microwave
<daftykins> trust me when i say, glass ones are nasty 'cause they just become dust storage
<solarcloud_3scrn> Azelphur, Why didn't you go for the CONSERVE  ?? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Belkin-8-Gang-CONSERVE-Surge-Protector-Mains-Extension-/200827345832?pt=UK_DIY_Material_Electrical_Fittings_MJ&hash=item2ec23e1ba8
<daftykins> those things are far too mickey mouse
<Azelphur> solarcloud_3scrn: didn't know it existed, energy isn't going to be saved by turning off an LED in a PC.
<daftykins> ah no misread it
<Azelphur> PC's are generally very low power when turned off
<solarcloud_3scrn> there is a wireless turnoff switch one ..
<daftykins> Azelphur: heh i'd only get the other stuff done *without* net and PC hooked up :>
<shauno> heh, this is where I'm stuck atm.  Signed for a new apartment yesterday.  can't move in for weeks because I can't get a cable guy out there until after the holidays
<Azelphur> shauno: openreach delays? join the club
<daftykins> shauno: doh!
<shauno> not openreach, I'm not in the UK.  just very bad timing (and notjust for ntl, I work most the holidays)
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> yea I'm stuck till feb
<shauno> oh wow.  I hope they're nowhere near that bad
<daftykins> stuck?
<Azelphur> daftykins: no net for me till feb
<daftykins> ooh-err
<shauno> if nothing else, I couldn't afford to pay rent on two apartments for the next 2 months :/
<daftykins> are you going through your phone atm then?
<solarcloud_3scrn> ah there it is .. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-Energy-Saving-8-Outlet-Protector/dp/B002DJJUSE/ref=pd_sim_computers_1
<ali1234> smellkin
<shauno> I don't use surge protectors.  they seem a bit silly when I can get UPSes free
<Azelphur> also the belkin protectors I got were like Â£5, I got them on special offer :p
<ali1234> that has a remote control off switch
<ali1234> but, it probably uses just as much to power that
<Azelphur> that would actually be useful for my monitors
<Azelphur> so I could just press one button to turn em all off
<daftykins> an electrician told me surge protectors are a load of rubbish once 0o
<ali1234> yeah they are
<ali1234> they won't protect against lightning which is the biggest problem
<Azelphur> I like the belkin ones because they have that huge guarentee on them, and belkin are apparently quite good about claims
<Azelphur> ali1234: they do in that belkin will replace your equipment if it makes it through the protector
<ali1234> you have to keep proof of purchase though
<Azelphur> yea, I buy all my stuff online
<daftykins> neither did a UPS at a clients, i think it travelled over the network
<Azelphur> so all my expensive stuff, I have proof of purchase since forever
<ali1234> yeah telephone sockets too
<daftykins> i know they have the ports to put the network through, but most don't do gigabit i think
<ali1234> some of them have phone + network protection though
<Azelphur> yea, my belkin ones have network protection on them too
<ali1234> not that it will actually help
<daftykins> his secretary was lucky to have a wireless phone, she saw a flash out of the corner of her eye
<daftykins> as it murdered the base station
<ali1234> heh
<daftykins> USB never worked again on his desktop
<ali1234> i didn't see a flash when my modem exploded
<Azelphur> ali1234: It'd probably help against minor surges, not against a strike
<ali1234> it only takes a small current to kill the electronics. not enough to hurt a person
<Azelphur> but, as I say, the guarentee is what I get them for
<daftykins> i had to put his old laptop in, RDP'ing over LAN to his desktop just to get a mouse and keyboard into the thing
 * solarcloud_3scrn bangs his head on his french desk.
<daftykins> the plan's to get a lightning rod on the place now :D
<ali1234> hah... bit late now
<daftykins> not if it happens again XD
<daftykins> had to get a PCI USB controller for that desktop, though it lives in the basement now as we upgraded a bit ago
<ali1234> hmm i can't submit a review on software centre
<daftykins> think i trust Belkin with network cables, not much else :>
<shauno> nah, they make some nifty usb hubs too
<ali1234> i would not buy a belkin network cable. they are like Â£15
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> oh ignoring price naturally
<shauno> I love these things - http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-In-Desk-USB-3-Inch-F5U402-03IN-KIT/dp/B000PDUJNU   (there's another variant that has more sockets, but isn't flush)
<daftykins> i've got a couple of their fancy audio cables i think actually, optical and coaxial
<ali1234> speaking of hubs
<daftykins> heh
<ali1234> ever seen a hub that is flush to the side of the laptop?
<ali1234> with no cable
<daftykins> if you want a hub, you're doing it wrong, when it comes to USB imo
<ali1234> ultrabooks only have two usb ports
<ali1234> most of them anyway
<ali1234> i need three: 1 for wireless mouse, 1 for memory stick and one for usb software protection dongle
<ali1234> i could not find one with 3 usb ports and windows 7
<shauno> I just find the desk hubs handy so I don't have to get on me behind to stick a usb key in my desktop
<shauno> yes they give rank throughput, no I rarely care about that with a usb stick
<daftykins> software protection?
<daftykins> shauno: you got an ancient desktop with no front USB?
<shauno> at work, sure.  I've still got IE6, let alone usb
<daftykins> nasty
<shauno> indeed
<shauno> they gave me a laptop to replace it a few years ago, but they never took the tower away.  so I kept both
<daftykins> erk lappy on a desk in a biz? controversial
<ali1234> why?
<daftykins> tedious to service
<ali1234> software protection for the expensive software needed to run an expensive sewing machine
<daftykins> 0o
<ali1234> and the memory stick is needed to transfer the designs
<daftykins> sounds fun :>
<ali1234> the "dongle" is actually a card reader writer
<ali1234> but it sucks. 1 design per card
<ali1234> and the cards and nonstandard and cost Â£40 for a 8 megabyte card
<ali1234> so you can use usb flash drives but you still need the dumb dongle plugged in
<daftykins> >_<
<daftykins> what is that software?
<ali1234> brother PE design
<solarcloud_3scrn> I thnkin' Avast 4 Linux
<solarcloud_3scrn> **for
<ali1234> i've successfully reverse engineered the protection used by the dongle
<ali1234> it is a total joke
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> the software sends 4 bytes and the dongle adds a constant to each byte and then returns the result
<daftykins> that's pretty amusing
<ali1234> i can now clone the function using windows device simulation framework
<daftykins> hehehe
<ali1234> this is why i was asking about circumvention and the law the other day
<daftykins> i'd turn my nose up at a company that wanted me to use some daft item to run their software
<ali1234> well you can't use the sewing machine without the software
<daftykins> oh indeed
<ali1234> well you can, but only for stitching in a straight line
<daftykins> but you can tell the company how disappointed you are :D
<ali1234> i suggested that
<ali1234> ah, review went through :)
<Azelphur> got a remote control with my HTPC, it seems to partially work ootb, some keys work, but some keys don't, ideas?
<daftykins> use irw to diagnose the inputs
<daftykins> i'm used to juggling with XBMC's config, not sure what you're running it with though
<Azelphur> daftykins: I don't even have lirc installed though
<Azelphur> so something else must be handling it
<daftykins> i was almost about to ask if you had lircd on 0o
<daftykins> how curious
<ali1234> i bet all the key "work"
<ali1234> but whatever software you use does not understand them
<ali1234> what buttons don't work?
<ali1234> i bet if you look in linux/input.h it's all the ones that have multibyte codes
<Azelphur> stuff like the red, green, yellow, blue buttons
<ali1234> bingo
<Azelphur> so what do I do?
<ali1234> the standard fix for this is to use lirc to read raw from the device and then convert the unknown keys into ascii keys
<ali1234> this method totally sucks
<ali1234> it requires yet another tcp/ip daemon
<Azelphur> ah
<ali1234> the alternative involves screaming at xorg/qt/gtk developers until they support this stuff properly
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> anyway, it's a known problem
<ali1234> and likely require a workaround specific to the software you;re trying to use
<Azelphur> at least there's a solution, installing lirc now
<daftykins> sigh troll in main chan
<jacobw> morning
<sprmtt> frustrating times this morning
<sprmtt> fsck can't finish because it runs out of ram
<sprmtt> had to resort to this: http://serverfault.com/questions/9218/running-out-of-memory-running-fsck-on-large-filesystems
<jacobw> wow
<jacobw> how large is your filesystem?
<sprmtt> 5TB
<sprmtt> LVM
<jacobw> interesting problem
<sprmtt> yup!
<sprmtt> if it dies, I've lost a lot of files, such as tv programes and videos, but it's not the end of the world because I have backups of my music and photos
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> Morning all!
<brobostigon> morning mr popey
<sprmtt> morning
<oimon> morning
<oimon> expect it will be quiet round here this week :P
 * oimon is looking to buy a cheap wii fit 2nd hand..left it a bit late
<MartijnVdS> you don't want a Wii
<brobostigon> morning oimon and sprmtt
<MartijnVdS> really ;)
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<oimon> MartijnVdS: already have the wii
<oimon> but my son loves the wii fit games
<oimon> but it's a rip off and i expect a lot of families have them that they haven't used
<oimon> all the gumtree sellers are in s. london or deepest essex
<MartijnVdS> oimon: ebay?
<oimon> looking for collection locally, will try ebay local search too
<popey> i see one in manchester
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nintendo-Wii-White-Console-wii-fit-and-wii-resort-/170960031904?pt=UK_VideoGames_VideoGameConsoles_VideoGameConsoles&hash=item27ce0310a0
<popey> cheapo
<MartijnVdS> only 18.14kg!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: why do I have you on G+ twice?
<popey> he migrated from one account to another
<MartijnVdS> popey: but he's online on both
<popey> so am i sometimes
<popey> i am sometimes online on 3 accounts
<popey> popey.com, gmail.com, canonical.com
<oimon> that is cheap, i already have the console
<oimon> found the fit board and game for 15.99 locally
<popey> nice to have a spare wii though if it fails :)
<oimon> lol
<oimon> manchester = stolen
<oimon> source: lived there 3 years
<oimon> (just joking)
<popey> hah
<popey> I flew back from scotland once, we hit some turbulence over manchester.. bloke next to me turned to me and said "Must be going over liverpool, someone's trying to nick the engines.."
<brobostigon> lol
<oimon> installing XP on a pc for my dad, feels pretty fast OOTB
<MartijnVdS> oimon: but then.. security updates
<oimon> i've done the 50 reboots required.
<oimon> he doesn't do online banking with it
<oimon> mainly uses for picasa
<popey> i was watching one of leo laportes podcasts for fun
<popey> Windows Weekly
<popey> one of the presenters was getting all uppity that people still use xp
<popey> he was whining on about how people should move on from xp to 7
<directhex> i got the wife a SECRET XMAS PRESENT. she seems a bit put out by the giant box, given we weren't giving each other presents this year, and got the wiiu as a joint present to ourselves
<MartijnVdS> popey: but.. they won't until they buy new hardware
<popey> indeed
<popey> he works for microsoft i think
<popey> so you know..
<MartijnVdS> and hardware lives for a _long_ time.. just replaced an old P3 at my uncle's farm with an old P4 my dad had lying around
<MartijnVdS> and the P4 is one of the last "made for XP" machines
<AlanBell> says popey :)
<oimon> dad would probably benefit from ubuntu since he's nervous about banking online
<oimon> but with older generation it's worth just giving them what they want
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I have it on good authority that popey doesn't work for Microsoft ;)
<popey> ideal for guest account I'd say
<shauno> we tend to underestimate how many people treat their PC like a dishwasher.  they don't need a new one until the old ones gives them a final reason
<popey> yup
<popey> although not everyone
<popey> many have moved from desktop to laptop for convenience
<MartijnVdS> shauno: capacitor plague is a blessing in disguise ;)
<oimon> thats why apple spend $$ persuading people they need iphone X
<popey> s/apple/samsung & htc/
<oimon> this machine is a P4, 3ghz, 2gb ram
<popey> they all do it
<oimon> sata disk, does nicely
<directhex> MartijnVdS, mmmm, that seems unlikely. vista shipped in early 2007, the last pentium 4 chips shipped in early 2005
<popey> yeah, xp would fly on that
<oimon> dimension 3100c
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Hmm.. it could be one generation earlier then
<MartijnVdS> directhex: but it has SATA power connectors(!)
<directhex> sata shipped in 2003
<MartijnVdS> directhex: sure, but power supplies with pre-attached SATA power leads as well?
<oimon> soon my home pc will be upgraded to intel core II duo
<MartijnVdS> directhex: anyway. 2005 vintage machine > 2001 vintage P3 ;)
<oimon> when my company throws out their old pcs
<shauno> I still have a machine here that claims 'designed for windows xp'.  old, old T40.  just refuses to die
<popey> I love those old thinkpads
<oimon> the thing is, the core2duo running gnome2 works better than my work pc with i5 processor , nvidia graphics running later *buntus
<popey> there's a guy at the local lug who has a really old tiny thinkpad.. xsomething
<oimon> 600e thinkpad anyone?
<oimon> nice screen
<popey> it's got one of those tiny hard disks you get in mp3 players
<oimon> remember ibm microdrive?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: fragility!
<shauno> I still have a few microdrives.  awesome little things
<directhex> popey, 1.8"? hellish
<directhex> popey, boss's laptop was the only one in the office with a 1.8" ssd, had no way to read it
<popey> yeah, he recently replaced it with an ssd
<popey> there's like 2 companies that make 1.8" SSDs
<popey> Kingspec.. that's it
 * oimon makes his daily visit to www.hornby.com/advent-calendar/ and airfix.com too to try to win a prize
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting 09/01/2013 20:00  | â â â â â Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.co
<AlanBell> whut
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0091SP8B8
<popey> ETOOMUCHCRAPINTOPIC
<shauno> nah.  sane amount of crap, but doubled up for good measure
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting 09/01/2013 20:00  | â â â â â â
<AlanBell> any more christmassy unicode to add?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yes but it's Unicode 6 and that breaks with GNU Screen
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting 09/01/2013 20:00  | â â â â â â â¿
<MartijnVdS> brb, starting tmux :)
<popey> to be inclusive
<oimon> oh they made a lego LOTR?
<oimon> have they improved the lego games since star wars
<oimon> they seemed a bit...simplistic
<AlanBell> lego batman is being played in the front room right now
<AlanBell> I don't think simplistic is a bug
<oimon> it seemed a bit boring, just had to collect lego bits and no real puzzles
<oimon> maybe didn't play it for long enough, or was a bad game
<oimon> couldn't really engage with it
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: â
<MartijnVdS> (you might need a Unicode-6 capable font for that one)
<MartijnVdS> â
<MartijnVdS> ð ð
<bashrc> looks like a funny blob
<popey> oooh blobs
<popey> blobs and lines
<MartijnVdS> ^ U+1f385 (FATHER CHRISTMAS) +  U+1f384 (CHRISTMAS TREE)
<popey> hah
<popey> http://unicodesnowmanforyou.com/
<bashrc> too bad I'm in ERC
<popey> ERC?
<MartijnVdS> â  = U+26C7 BLACK SNOWMAN
<bashrc> http://www.emacswiki.org/ERC
<MartijnVdS> â = U+26C4 SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yes, I was looking at those pages, but they don't render for me
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: put the ttf from this .zip in ~/.fonts and restart your terminals: http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/Symbola706.zip
<AlanBell> ooh, I will
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: they're the same icons/emoticons Mac users and Whatsapp users use :)
<popey> ooh
<AlanBell> should that be packaged in Ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> ð <(Meow)
<MartijnVdS> popey: yes unicode 6++!
<bashrc> I don't much care about Mac users
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: they're people too
<bashrc> I guess
 * popey spies his #2 child unit using OSX right now
<oimon> pidgin does not like those fonts
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: what about this one? ð§ - U+1F427 PENGUIN
<MartijnVdS> And for the Perl programmers: ðª or ð«
<oimon> ah, now all is well MartijnVdS
<popey> haha
<oimon> pidgin fixed the fonts onthe fly after installing
<oimon> no restart req'd
<popey> http://www.onegameamonth.com/ looks like an interesting thing
<MartijnVdS> ð
<oimon> guys, does wii fit usually just come with the board and the game?
<oimon> no leads or any other stuffs?
<oimon> special controllers etc
<MartijnVdS> the board is a special controller
<oimon> yes, just checking :P
<MartijnVdS> Don't some games require the "motion plus" controller?
<oimon> i have a gold one
<oimon> from the zelda special pack
<popey> wii fit resort needs the motion plus, yes
<popey> but wii fit doesn't
<oimon> cool ta
<MartijnVdS> ð²
<oimon> ninite.com ftw
<MartijnVdS> oimon: yes, ninite is VERY useful
<oimon> suddenly got a lot more traffic on blog and wordpress calls it "other search terms"
<oimon> cannot see what the referrer or search terms are
<oimon> however it's nice to see referral links from forums where people have found the blog posts useful :D
<oimon> one of them links from an internal ibm wiki that i cannot see :P
<popey> AIUI google strips those referals from their internal browser builds on their desktops
<popey> so they don't leak information about products
<oimon> or other encrypted traffic?
<oimon> i mean other products using encrypted search?
<oimon> suddenly big spike on one day but couldn't see where from
<solarcloud_3scrn> popey, If you like OneGameA.Month please feel free to join Freegamer G+roup..  http://bit.ly/VXZ5em
<solarcloud_3scrn> (Iwan's Group.)
<popey> looks quiet
<popey> might set aside some time to learn Unity3D over xmas
<solarcloud_3scrn> popey.. knock yourself out .. here's some music for the snowgnomen.. http://somafm.com/popup/?xmasinfrisko
<Azelphur> when you switch bank, they can automatically move all your direct debits for you right?
<penguin42> yep
<AlanBell> Azelphur: yes, you have to fill out some forms
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> but payments in have to be updated?
<AlanBell> standing orders would have to be updated at source probably, yes
<Azelphur> I see
<penguin42> personally I prefer to open the new account and move stuff myself, and often leave the old one open - it's useful having accounts with banks
<Azelphur> so best to keep it open for a little while during the switch, make sure everything is sorted
<Azelphur> yea, I just have to move away from Santander
<Azelphur> this is the 15th time they've locked my account, and every time they do it they make me call an 0845 for like 20 minutes
<penguin42> ah, not an uncommon senitment
<Azelphur> making my phone bill ridiculous, and causing me loads of hassle and stress :/
<penguin42> Azelphur: On BT phones they do a deal for 'unlimited' calls that includes 0845 (but not 0844)
<Azelphur> yea, I can't get my phone line connected till feb, so I have to call on mobile every time
<penguin42> ouch
<Azelphur> yea :/
<popey> complain
<popey> i did and got compensation
<Azelphur> I complained
<popey> why are they locking your account?
<Azelphur> they said it wouldn't happen again, it happened again, then I complained again, then they said it wouldn't happen again, then it happened again
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> what makes you think other banks won't lock your account under similar circumstances?
<Azelphur> popey: they are locking me for ridiculous things, they locked me just now because I bought some furniture on ikea -.-
<penguin42> Azelphur: Make it a formal complaint, and formally ask for compensation
<Azelphur> penguin42: good idea, I will give that a go
<penguin42> Azelphur: Oh and if you're calling banks, do it at odd hours of the night, generally a lot quicker
<Azelphur> interesting, wouldn't they be closed?
<penguin42> Lloyds is 24hour
<Azelphur> santander isn't, haha
<penguin42> it's a bit hit and miss, because obviously they put less people on at those times as well
<Azelphur> anyone handy with LIRC and mind helping me get my remote to work?
<MartijnVdS> woo
<MartijnVdS> anyone with a Flickr account here?
<MartijnVdS> because: http://www.flickr.com/holidaygift
<KrimZon> is anyone aware of this bug in unity in ubuntu 12.04:
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^ ?
<popey> hmm?
<KrimZon> the panel seems to have the wrong idea about what window is actually active, and it stops me clicking the sidebar icon to choose between multiple open terminal windows, for example
<popey> i can never remember my yahoo account password
<MartijnVdS> popey: I linked my flickr to Google
<popey> KrimZon, java apps?
<popey> oh, didnt know you could
<KrimZon> I have two terminal windows open - I click the icon once and it shows me one of the windows, then I click again and nothing happens
<KrimZon> yeah, sometimes it works, other times it doesn't
<KrimZon> also the panel often shows the wrong titlebar for the currently open window, or it shows the titlebar for another window
<KrimZon> but the panel menu is still correct
<popey> "We've sent information about resetting your password to your recovery email address."
<MartijnVdS> popey: it was a bit of an ordeal, but it's possible.. let me find a HOWTO/faq
<popey> nvm, I'll reset, and use lastpass
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hang on, doesn't that mean that you can upload loads of stuff for 3 months and then get charged a fortune for it?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: no, after 3 months you go back to "Free" mode
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: which means any photos over 200 (300?) you have will be hidden until you pay
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: and high-res downloads will be disabled again
<penguin42> right ok
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: and you'll get upload limits
<penguin42> but yes, stuff you upload won't necessarily be kept visible
<popey> hmm, yahoo haven't sent me the mail
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.flickr.com/help/signin/#4945080
<MartijnVdS> popey: sometimes it takes a while
<KrimZon> I think it involves workspaces too
<popey> "Weâre sorry, but your Gmail account is temporarily unavailable. We apologise for the inconvenience and suggest trying again in a few minutes."
<popey> erk
<penguin42> erk rare
<MartijnVdS> popey: that sometimes happens
<MartijnVdS> takes a minute, then it works again
<popey> KrimZon, have you recently updated?
<popey> or has unity crashed today?
<popey> how often does it happen?
<popey> does it happen for a guest user, or just your account?
<popey> yay, its back, and I have a yahoo mail :)
<KrimZon> popey, I've only just installed it and run updates
<KrimZon> I'll check those things
<popey> did you restart after updating?
<popey> logout/login
<KrimZon> I can't remember
<popey> you should
<MartijnVdS> $boss gave everyone one of these for christmas: http://www.ionaudio.com/products/details/roadrocker
<KrimZon> k, I'll reboot, then check the guest user
<popey> that looks cool
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's a bluetooth speaker
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: tried routing pulseaudio to it?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I don't have mine yet, having some days off :)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: but it should work, my bluetooth-to-3.5mm works fine too
<popey> oh, bluetooth, even better!
 * penguin42 wonders why I'm getting a German ad for Google Play
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: because you're secretly german
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: because you have an IP that used to belong to the royal family
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: because Merkel has taken over the UK
<penguin42> hmm
<KrimZon> a reboot seems to have fixed it :)
<KrimZon> then I typed so in the wrong window
<popey> stupid yahoo wont let me login
<mfraz74> Why would you want to?
<popey> flickr
<mfraz74> AH
<popey> aha! spam
<popey> heh, found this http://www.flickr.com/photos/71478182@N00/3472029810/in/photostream/
<KrimZon> it's doing it again :(
<KrimZon> I've run ubuntu tweak and dconf-editor
<popey> KrimZon, doing what precisely
<KrimZon> if I have 2 of one program open without focus, and another program with focus, all on one workspace
<KrimZon> if I switch away from and back to that workspace, then when I click on the icon for the program I have 2 of, it selects one of them, but no further clicks will let me choose between them
<popey> what is the program?
<Azelphur> ali1234: you about to answer more questions about the remote i'm still struggling with? :P
<KrimZon> gnome terminal
<popey> are they fully on screen or are part of them on another workspace?
<KrimZon> I'd closed them, and when I set it up again it started working properly :(
<popey> baguette-o'clock
<jacobw> MooCs are cool
<penguin42> ok, I  admi t it - I like the G+ hangout Wallace & Grommit ad
<jacobw> I saw my father for the first time in a few months yesterday, and he said he's been doing CS101 on Udacity just to see what I do
<jacobw> I was kinda suprised
<alexcockell> Might be offtopic - but BBC2 is airing The Toys that made Christmas...
<penguin42> off topic? In here?
<popey> :)
<daubers> lo
 * popey sees https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc and thinks of MartijnVdS 
<daftykins> anyone ever text a US number? i'm struggling with it
<popey> daftykins, how so?
<popey> and yes, frequently
<daftykins> it is just 001-xxx-xxx-xxxx or +1-xxx-xxx-xxxx right?
<popey> +1
<popey> I always store numbers in +XX notation in my phone for when I'm away from home
<daftykins> mmm, perhaps my telco won't let me text US numbers
<daftykins> yeah definitely handy, became quite the challenge when i was roadtripping over there this summer XD
<daftykins> anywho i'm just getting message reports of 'unsuccessful'
<daftykins> so i'm not sure there
<popey> maybe the recipient can't receive?
<daftykins> could be
<daftykins> thanks anyways
<daftykins> i suppose i'll just have to continue dealing with 'Dustin' signing my gmail address up for all of his purchases Â¬_Â¬
<AlanBell> you could ring it
<AlanBell> at breakfast time UK time :)
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> maybe
<daftykins> the latest 'Best Buy' email gives me a link that seems to show a full home address
<daftykins> maybe i could send a belated Christmas card :P
<KrimZon> popey, btw, I thought I'd give unity a proper go after I saw your video on 12.04
<popey> oh nice!
<mishagale> Hiya
<mishagale> Anyone willing/able to help me with my obsolete Maverick install?
<mishagale> Hullo?
<dutchie> mishagale: what in particular do you need help with?
<mishagale> dutchie, I think I may have it figured out now...
<mishagale> It seems the main repositories no longer carry Maverick packages
<mishagale> I'm now trying to change my sources.list to use old-releases.ubuntu.com instead
<dutchie> is there any reason you can't upgrade to a still-supported version?
<mishagale> Right now the reason is my internet connection
<mishagale> Lack of disk space on this netbook is another reason
<mishagale> I've been meaning to do a clean install since the End Of Life, but never got around to it
<mishagale> But I'm in Mexico ATM with ~100kbps, so downloading a complete distro isn't feasible
<dutchie> fair enough; old-releases should get you through until you have a better connection
<mishagale> Thanks
<mishagale> I've just changed all the http://archives.ubuntu.com... lines in my sources.list to http://old-releases.ubuntu.com... should that work?
<dutchie> should do
<mishagale> Yep! would work better if I hadn't written "http://old-releases.canonical.com" for some of them, which doesn't exist :)
<mishagale> Hurrah! Think I've finally installed MySQL Workbench, thanks dutchie!
<mishagale> Unfortunately, it turns out that MySQL Workbench doesn't properly support displays with a horizontal resolution <= 600px
<mishagale> I hate people who design UI's without scrollbars
<dutchie> you can do alt+drag to move a window without having to see the title bar
<mishagale> dutchie, That doesn't seem to work for me, is it supported in Maverick?
<daftykins> that's standard in every version
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-23
<mishagale> Just found excellent workaround: $ xrandr --output LVDS1 --panning 1024x800
<penguin42> what does --panning do ?
<mishagale> Now have extra 200 lines of "virtual" desktop
<penguin42> ah, that
<mishagale> penguin42, it makes your desktop larger than your physical display, moving mouse to edge pans view
<penguin42> ok
<daftykins> happy Christmas Eve's Eve all >:)
 * penguin42 pre-jingles
<daftykins> ^_^
<mishagale> Here in Mexico it is still the 22nd
<daftykins> :)
<BigRedS> I need to install Ubuntu on an early Intel mac mini. I guess the standard amd64 CD image will work - is there a more appropriate one to use?
<daftykins> wouldn't have thought so, could be worth trying to hit up some guides though
<BigRedS> googling's actually made me less sure that it should work
<daftykins> have you got finite CD-R's?
<BigRedS> yeah, but I have a USB stick and unetbootin
<daftykins> ah
<BigRedS> I don't have an apple keyboard which I think did confuse things with this machine once before
<daftykins> i suppose you'll have to see how friendly the EFI is :)
<BigRedS> Lots of people reckon it'll Just Work on recent Apple hardware and I don't suppose BIOS emulation's something they've particularly worked on
<daftykins> ah
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<penguin42> BigRedS: I'm not sure you can get to the boot on them without an apple keyboard
<penguin42> BigRedS: Also, just check it's 64bit, I'm fairly sure the first Intel macs were 32bit only
<daftykins> alt should work fine, that's your key to hold down for different boot devices
<shauno> unetbootin may confuse issues more than it doesn't.  their bios emulation only targets a few narrow use-cases
<BigRedS> penguin42: it's a c2d I think. But it does have a working OS, so it's worth checking for certain
<BigRedS> shauno: I guess it's basically there for Windows to work?
<penguin42> they didn't have bios emulation on the 1st ones
<shauno> right.  so it'll do legacy-emulation from internal optical, bios/mbr emulation from internal hdd, and usb may as well not exist
<BigRedS> ahhh
<BigRedS> cool
<BigRedS> better get some CDs tomorrow!
<shauno> ymmv, of course, just don't give up straight away if unetbootin doesn't render bootable results
<daftykins> wow, asked my friends in the US to text that guy that kept signing me up to his email. he gave them a call and it turns out *drumroll* his email is mine with '8' on the end :>
<daftykins> oops signing my email up to his stuff, rather
<dwatkins> daftykins: so he just keeps getting his e-mail address wrong?
 * dwatkins suspects this is the case with his namesake
<daftykins> seems it somehow gets lost in translation either over the phone or in person at shops
<daftykins> as i'm a Dave, i see spam for 'Dotty', requests for 'Dustin' (this guy) to go and provide after-school tuition for kids
<daftykins> in the past i discovered some other guy who i managed to find the real email for, somehow, who then started asking me what my family tree was like to see if we were related
<daftykins> think that was a Daniel
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> definitely seems interesting being quick on a new email service (this was gmail back in the early invite days)
<daftykins> dwatkins: do you get something similar? :)
<shauno> I used to quite persistently get something similar.  although my address was first.last, and although we shared a surname, this chap called kevin kept using my address
<daftykins> ! weird
<daftykins> heh, oops sorry lubotu3 :P
<shauno> eventually he had it attached to his vodafone account, so I logged in and sent him a webtext from his own number asking him to quit it.  and he did
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i've heard that so many times, you eventually have to just use their accounts ja
<daftykins> this time i got a Best Buy email with his mobile # so i just set about trying to contact :D
<shauno> well when it's the only communication you have with them, it's the only avenue past simply ignoring it
<mgdm> is it possible to disable Unity's behaviour on hitting alt?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it's done in ccsm
<mgdm> ah, I dn't have that installed as I wasn't sure if it worked
<ali1234> it does
<ali1234> 99% of configuration of unity is done there
<mgdm> I had 'MyUnity', which served to sort some things
<ali1234> that's useless
<ali1234> it just hits some of the same config keys
<mgdm> ooh, toys
<mgdm> any idea which setting governs that?
<ali1234> what, the alt key? "key to show the HUD" or something
<mgdm> oh, got it
<ali1234> i can't check because i don't have unity plugin installed
<mgdm> s'fine
<mgdm> now alt does nothing, which isn't brilliant, but certainly better than it was
<ali1234> well you can map it to a different plugin quite easily
<ali1234> what do you want it to do?
<ali1234> open the first menu on selected window?
<mgdm> essentially, yes
<mgdm> 'do what it has done since Windows was invented'
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> yeah would be nice
<ali1234> that might be the one thing it can't do
<mgdm> well, nothing is closer to what i want than the HUD is, so I'll survive
<ali1234> yeah i disabled it too
<mgdm> I wouldn't mind so much, if it took less than 4 seconds to show up
<ali1234> then i forgot because i never even accidentally activated it
<ali1234> i reported a bug about that the day after it was released
<mgdm> I'm using a Mac keyboard, which means i hit the wrong button fairly frequently
<Azelphur> ali1234: that remote of mine, the color buttons don't even show up when I'm catting /dev/input/eventx, is it meant to do that?
<ali1234> i think showing first menu by alt would be a gtk responsibility (or qt or whatever)
<ali1234> Azelphur: i dunno. at the very least you should see "unknown event"
<ali1234> or "unmapped key" or "unknown key" errors or something
<Azelphur> I'm doing cat /dev/input/eventX and looking at it raw, it shows up for the number keys, but nothing at all for the colors
<ali1234> well don't do that
<ali1234> use evtest or whatever
<ali1234> and look at the driver too
<ali1234> look at the hid descriptors
<ali1234> this is all same as we did on the g19 stuff
<Azelphur> yea, it doesn't show up in evtest either
<Azelphur> indeed, it's similar, not sure how to look at hid descriptors though.
<Azelphur> this is interesting...the volume control keys on the remote work
<Azelphur> but they don't show up in evtest
<Azelphur> the remote is split into two devices, haha, but neither of them pick up the colors
<ali1234> is it using the standard hid device?
<ali1234> check dmesg
<Azelphur> what am I looking for in dmesg? evtest says that both devices are a mouse xD
<dwatkins> daftykins: no, I don't think the set designer with my name is aware I exist - hopefully he hasn't lost any work as a result of giving out the wrong e-mail address - I did tell the people involved
<daftykins> dwatkins: heh, set designer? for films etc?
<dwatkins> daftykins: yeah, I think so - you can even look up the other Dominic Watkins on imdb.
<dwatkins> This is not me: http://uk.imdb.com/name/nm0914291/
<dwatkins> oh sorry, Production Designer and Art Director
<penguin42> you mean you weren't born into a family of legendary stilton makers?
<dwatkins> hehe no
<daftykins> i'd have totally asked for free cheese :(
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/IAAao.jpg
<daftykins> aww yeah, a bit of old Peculier
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<daftykins> heyup
 * daftykins tips hat
<brobostigon> morning daftykins
<jacobw> morning
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
<AlanBell> morning all
<brobostigon> morning AlanBell
<jacobw> how the festive period?
<daubers> Morning
<daftykins> daubers: yo
<daftykins> daubers: the lovely situ you'd enjoy is the dying of 4 disks at once in an 8-disk RAID6 :>
<daftykins> 1500 bad sectors on one, 50-ish on a second, ECC error on a third and ~12 bad sectors on a fourth
<daftykins> aww ye
<daubers> daftykins: Lovely! Hope you had a backup :)
<daftykins> 8D for the important stuff yup. client elected not to be worried about backing up the 6TB of imaged DVD films of his collection
<daubers> heh :)
<daftykins> it may still be rescued mind, waiting on RMA's from WD
<daubers> Good luck
<daftykins> ^_^ thanks
<daubers> That's the reason I tend to not use WD drives. I've seen that happen a few times in RAIDs of WD
<daftykins> aww :(
<daftykins> they seem the best for warranty length still
<daftykins> they're WD2002FYPS' that are going wonky
<daftykins> they email'd to ask if it's alright that the replacements will be WD2003FYYS :>
<daftykins> bit of a laugh to ask imo
<daubers> heh :)
<daftykins> i'm not even sure the approach i might take
<daftykins> i guess pull just the worst hit with bad sectors to start, and watch it rebuild
<daftykins> then pull the next worst, etc
<daftykins> i suppose with the double parity of 6, i could pull two at once and rebuild, but something about it seems risky
<daubers> Yeah. You should get away with just 12 bad sectors on one of them
<daubers> I'd do it one at a time!
<daubers> Just in case
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> ta
<daftykins> once they eventually show up :D
<daubers> I have rescued RAIDs in that kind of state by DD'ing a bad-ish disk to a good one before
<daubers> Sometimes works
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> full on dd or that dd-rescue that can dance over bad sectors?
<daubers> dd-rescue might be better in this instance
<daubers> I've used both at times :)
<daftykins> he's considering getting more storage next
<daftykins> though now this has happened he might be put off, as i advertised it as a nice safe system XD
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: FIO... www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm some claim superb results but zero experience of it myself
<daftykins> mmm i know the name
<daubers> I've used both at times :) For a "safe" RAID I'd use different batches of drives from different manufacturers. For a fast RAID I'd use matched.
<daftykins> thanks
<daubers> Hmm, silly keyboard
<daubers> Could do with a new one in the sales
<daftykins> i'm almost curious as to whether the WD Red drives are worth considering, only 3 yr warranty as opposed to enterprise grade 5yr though
<daftykins> and... would mean going WD again ;)
<daubers> I'd get Hitachi ones....
<daubers> Hitachi 2TB enterprise drives seem to be quite reliable. 3TB are ok, but we see a lot of those fail in the first year or so
<daubers> Though I doubt your customer is abusing it as much as our end users do...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> nah just mass media storage really
<daubers> :)
<daftykins> in some ways i wonder if i shouldn't be running ECC RAM hosts
<daftykins> i'll have to do some burn-in too
<daubers> Doesn't make much difference tbh. Mostly with these things it depends how good the RAID cards are, and to some extents your CPU and NICs
<daftykins> interesting
 * daubers turns off the reprap
<popey> pip pip
<penguin42> hey Popey
<dutchie> o/
<solarcloud> Afternoonings.
<solarcloud> Bannana's & Frosted SHredded Wheat,300grm = 70p + 32p from Tesco = Good addition to Order list ( Not a euphamism ).
<popey> bigcalm, http://blog.gitlabhq.com/gitlab-4-release/
<MartijnVdS> Some festive music :) https://soundcloud.com/ed-harcourt/the-devil-came-down-the-chimney
<AlanBell> that is rather good MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Ed Harcourt makes nice music :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: waiting for his new album
<solarcloud_3scrn> Wikimapia .. never a good import .. http://goo.gl/nMzOk
<directhex> moo
<cliftonts> hi all, anyone have any ideas for a laptop which has worked fine until an upgrade to 12.10 and now the GPU runs hot?
<solarcloud_3scrn> cliftonts, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221162835313?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 bit like this one .. http://goo.gl/3cFDQ
<popey> cliftonts, what make/model of laptop?
<cliftonts> no idea what I should be looking at there solarcloud
<cliftonts> dell studio 1557
<solarcloud_3scrn> cliftonts, You didn't click both links :(
<cliftonts> we had cpu scaling issues in 12.04 but that seems ok now
<cliftonts> there were two links?
<solarcloud_3scrn> there you go ...
<popey> cliftonts, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1553968
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell, popey re the discussion on -discuss atm. I've watched the questions for a couple of days now, can't get the word "journalist" out of my mind
<popey> eh?
<cliftonts> solarcloud I see 2 laptops for sale, what does that have to do with me?
<cliftonts> Thanks popey
<solarcloud_3scrn> cliftonts, "anyone have any ideas for a laptop" .. guess i missread .. You should have said 'used' laptop. :)
<cliftonts> I think you're beating up the wrong bush entirely solarcloud
<cliftonts> Looks like it's sorted anyway
<cliftonts> seems the frequency scaling had died
<ubuntubhoy> AlanBell: did you update your shopper extension to include the price ?
<AlanBell> I did, yes
<AlanBell> oh, didn't update the zip file probably
<AlanBell> I also got it to connect to my server over https
<ubuntubhoy> fancy throwing it out again ?
<neuro> mornin all
<popey> lo
<AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: sure, I will do an update later
<AlanBell> popey: doing your christmas shopping tomorrow?
 * neuro wonders if ubuntubhoy is an actual Bhoy
<directhex> moo moo
<neuro> ancients of
<popey> AlanBell, yup
<ubuntubhoy> neuro: very much so - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_F.C.
<ubuntubhoy> AlanBell: cheers
<neuro> mon the hoops :)
<ubuntubhoy> :D
<neuro> looking forward to juve in feb
<ubuntubhoy> yip
<ubuntubhoy> kinda think we have a chance
<ubuntubhoy> albeit a slight one
<neuro> me too but don't want to get hopes up
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<neuro> kinda puts all the politics rubbish from the league into perspective :)
<neuro> last 16 baby!
<ubuntubhoy> haha
<ubuntubhoy> miss the old firm games though
<neuro> i don't actually
<neuro> i don't miss glasgow turning into a fear zone for 24h
<neuro> i don't miss the eejits in the stands
<neuro> i don't miss the gers trying to foul their way to a win
<neuro> granted the spl may be less "exciting", but we have the champs league to make up for it
<ubuntubhoy> see, I work in a pub, and I always hated old firm days
<neuro> and with the gers out the way, it gives the other spl teams a chance to reach the CL and europa
<ubuntubhoy> but I do miss that buzz in the belly
<neuro> so they get a nice spread of the cash and the attention
<ubuntubhoy> I agree with that
<ubuntubhoy> but maybe a little cup final in may to pump them
<neuro> and moar cash into the spl means moar good players being either trained up or bought in
<neuro> i'd prefer the former, obviously
<neuro> grassroots++
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<neuro> aye, cup final would be good actually :)
<neuro> i must admit
<ubuntubhoy> yip
<neuro> cos right now they're on easy street (ish)
<neuro> i say ish because look at their away record :D
<neuro> anyway, don't want to hassle all these good ubuntu people with fitba talk, just glad to see a fellow tim in attendance
<ubuntubhoy> +1 ^^
<neuro> oh it's a grand old game to play for ... etc ;)
<ubuntubhoy> haha
<neuro> WHEN!
<neuro> YOU KNOW!
<neuro> THE HISTORY!
<neuro> hearing that in parkhead being sung by like 50,000 people always gives me the goose bumps
<neuro> ANYWAY, he said not talking about football anymore ... :)
<neuro> anyone know of any good ubuntu/puppet tutorials?
<neuro> i'm pondering redoing my home infra from scratch and figure it might be a good way to learn
<neuro> new years resolution, replace crusty old 8.04->10.04 bastion host and 10.04 dhcp server :)
 * neuro takes the silence as a 'no' :)
<cliftonts> evening all. Anybody have any idea why the python command 'from serial.tools import list_ports' is producing the error 'ImportError: No module named tools'?
<directhex> hm, gaming press is ablaze with stories about ubuntu
<popey> stories full of assumption and misunderstanding
<bashrc> scurrilous rumours?
<penguin42> popey: How far out from London are you to need to get up at 6?
<popey> farnborough
<popey> need time for brekkie, dress kids etc :)
<directhex> popey, can't go wrong with a good scandal
<penguin42> heck, you're practically next to London already
<popey> hah
<penguin42> not like getting there from Manc
<penguin42> as a kid I remember we took one of the old really slow night trains down in the summer, it was great, got in about 5-6am when it was still very quiet, wondered around pretty much deserted landmarks
<directhex> i've been quite tempted by a night train to europe through the alps
<directhex> like to italy or something
<directhex> we don't want to fly with the baby until he's old enough that we're not The Parents Flying With A Baby
<AlanBell> 18 then
<AlanBell> popey: I am going to london too I think, but you will probably be there before me :
<popey> I'm leaving ~7am
<penguin42> some of the sales have already started in Manc, I guess London as well - most will probably start boxing day though
<penguin42> (I'm one jumper and two towels and one pack of labels into the sales so far :-)
<AlanBell> we don't have any shopping to do, I am just taking one or possibly two offspring up to look around and do touristy stuff perhaps
<ubuntubhoy> insult the locals, and have your wallet stolen ??
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-16
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> you can't delete the credentials for a wifi network in windows 8.1
<daftykins> at least not graphically. i had to run "netsh wlan delete profile name=SSID"
<popey> directhex: do you have The Stanley parable?
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * MartijnVdS listens to http://open.spotify.com/album/6Ke8YiLYx2pzt8TaDeNp1B 
 * MooDoo is at work tackling next years rota.
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rota,_C%C3%A1diz ?
<MooDoo> yeah maybe i should send people there :)
<MartijnVdS> "It's for the best"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
<dwatkins> allo allo
<MooDoo> morning
<dwatkins> cool, the BBC Micro USB adapters may be available again in the new year
<dwatkins> Something useful for my little computer museum
<SuperMatt> bbc micro usb adaptor?
<SuperMatt> sounds too good to be true
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: details here: http://www.retroclinic.com/acorn/datacentre/datacentre.htm
<dwatkins> I'm still waiting for them to do another batch of them, they had run out of stock when I asked a year ago
<SuperMatt> I'm surprised the bbc micro can support such stuff
<dwatkins> I think it uses a ROM to present each .ssd and dsd file as a disc to the OS
<SuperMatt> I see
 * SuperMatt doesn't see
<dwatkins> maybe the ROM just sends and receives data via the user port, and the board itself implements the FAT32 filesystem
<SuperMatt> I can't remember if I've ever used a bbc micro
<MooDoo> Last time I was on one was when I played Frak :)
<dwatkins> I replaced the function keys on my IBM Model M keyboard to vaguely resemble a BBC Micro / Archimedes.
<dvrr> good morning everyone
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<czajkowski> gooood morning
<daubers> o/
<MooDoo> morning laura
<czajkowski> Laney: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LauraCzajkowski/posts/6E2XarLSDGM
<Laney> czajkowski: dawwwww
<czajkowski> :)
<diplo> Morning all
<bigcalm> I take it that the carrot is a toy rather than an actual carrot?
<diplo> Anyone point me in the direction of what may cause this error in messages "q 30000 above highwater mark 30000, /path/to/file"
<diplo> Also keyboard has changed to US style even thouh it says it's UK :/
<diplo> Remove US altogether works :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: nope a real one
<czajkowski> he loves it
<bigcalm> czajkowski: cool, cheap toys :D
<czajkowski> oh he has them too but loves a fresh carrot it's amusing to watch
<Guest81453> Good morning all; happy Day of Reconciliation! :-D
<foobarry> what's that?
<bigcalm> You all came back! It was getting cold on my own
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<MooDoo> morning morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> are you well brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: numb, but fine, and you?
<MooDoo> on the downward spiral to my hols :D
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> afternoon peeps
<bashrc> evening
<Monotoko> we have a colonial!
<Myrtti> AND IMMIGRANTS
<bashrc> really?
<Myrtti> well, technically I've not yet immigrated
<Myrtti> but oh well
<bashrc> I immigrated to planet Earth
<knightwise> A colonial ? Who  ?
<MooDoo> knightwise: dr who?
<knightwise> bashrc: are you sure that was a wise move ?
<knightwise> MooDoo: Very clever earthling
<knightwise> I managed to fix my synapic pointer issue on my thinkpad last night
<knightwise> needed to downgrade the bios to a previous version and then all was honkey dorey
 * knightwise did have to use windows to do it
<knightwise>  brrr
<MooDoo> cold knightwise ;)
<knightwise> Hmm.. i'm trying out the ubuntu-after-install script that they have out there
<knightwise> pretty convenient if you want to automate a workstations post-install
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240211011/Avon-drops-SAP-big-bang-transformation
<brobostigon> yummy, ham and cheese toastie, day2.
<popey> heh, just made the kids cheese toasties
<popey> they love them
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> popey: that is a sizeable failure!
<diplo> The place I used to work for have just finally got rid of it after a pretty failed install/go live
<diplo> About Â£6m in total
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Ouch. $125m down the pan...
<foobarry> what are we talking about? i missed a bit of the convo
<TheOpenSourcerer> foobarry: http://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240211011/Avon-drops-SAP-big-bang-transformation
<popey> I'd be tempted to buy the bits to make a steam machine for the lounge at some point
<MooDoo> anyone plauyed with steamos yet just seing that comment of popey 's
<popey> not much to play with really if you're already used to steam on linux
<directhex> popey, now we know the basics of the os, the next interesting bit will be the controllers shipping in bulk
<directhex> popey, also all the steamos boxes and games announced in early jan at CES
<popey> yeah, looking forward to trying those new ones
<popey> i like the look of that one that goes on the back of the telly
<popey> well, i like the *idea* of it
<popey> golly, I have 96 linux games in steam
<directhex> that all? :p
<popey> â»
<popey> bit of a steam newb really
<popey> most come from humble bundles I suspect
<ali1234> is it worth getting a motherboard with legacy PCI still?
<ali1234> it's basically a choice between 4x PCIe and 2x PCIe + 2x PCI
<ormiret> ali1234: I'd say you only need PCI if you already have PCI cards you want to use - you're unlikely to need it for anything new.
<ali1234> http://www.ebuyer.com/lists/list/279637
<popey> speakers?
<popey> or a cable to take audio from sound card to screen
<directhex> ali1234, which PCI device do you want to use?
<directhex> ali1234, i can't even remember the last time PCI made sense
<Monotoko> PCI just reminds me we have a PCI DSS assessment in a month... ugh
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nition/scraps-customisable-vehicle-combat-for-windows-mac
<popey> that looks hilarious
<dwatkins> like KSP for cars
<popey> yeah
<popey> some of the ridiculous cars in the video are funny
<popey> http://www.engadget.com/2013/12/15/datawind-ubislate/
<popey> very cheap tablet
<popey> (and probably crap)
<directhex> banjo kazooie: nuts & bolts for xbox 360
<directhex> did the "build a vehicle" thing a long time ago
<popey> http://kotaku.com/minecraft-is-coming-to-the-playstation-3-tomorrow-acco-1484097768
<AlanBell> but not in the UK popey :(
<popey> oh, region specific.. bummer
<ali1234> popey have you seen nextcargame?
<ali1234> also my dad already has speakers
<popey> no, wow
 * Seeker` is worried that Boston Dynamics + Google = Skynet
<ball> Seeker`: Not until they strap IBM Watson to it ;-)
<Seeker`> ball: I wouldn't run that past google...
<ball> It's the Forbin Project all over again!
<ball> Watson will know that Google/General Dynamics exists
<ball> ...and will demand to be spliced onto it. :-)
<shauno> so does this make "don't be evil" a defence contractor now?
<Seeker`> shauno: no
<NET||abuse> has anyone else experienced slowness after resuming from suspend?
<NET||abuse> I think i've been seeing it for over a year,
<NET||abuse> i've gone through 12.10 to 13.10, and i still have it
<NET||abuse> it's really frustrating
<ball> Hmm... the Ubuntu download page doesn't make it obvious where to find .torrent files
<ball> Ah, if I click back a few times and scroll down...
<ball> Found it
<popey> NET||abuse: yes. i think it was a bug in unity panel service
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25402621 that is quite cheap, probably for a reason
<AlanBell> http://www.ubislate.co.uk/product.php?prodid=1 the actual product
<AlanBell> 800x480 screen resolution is pretty low
<diddledan__> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25395989
<diddledan__> I think google must be working on a _real_ android
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: they want to replace humans with something else that (a) generates money and (b) doesn't complain about privacy so much
<brobostigon> ok, interesting question, using network location, same phone, different networks, would you get different results?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: 800x480? Isn't that the PSP screen res?
<popey> thats what the Asus EEE 701 was
<popey> 6 years ago
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://atworkcrm.tumblr.com/post/70189084591/the-story-of-a-christmas-relationship-management
<Myrtti> Why do Americans write the month before the day?
<Myrtti> http://gu.com/p/3y75k
<Myrtti> lol
<Myrtti> it has no answers :-D
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: very clever
<AlanBell> Myrtti: it is because they say it like that, today is "December 13th" to them, and not "the 13th of December"
<AlanBell> but they don't know why they say it the wrong way round
<popey> laziness
<popey> they don't say "December 13th" they say "December 13"
<popey> Extreme lazy â»
<AlanBell> ah, you are right
<shauno> I think the more interesting question is why don't we write the month first?
<AlanBell> yyy-mm-dd is defensible
<AlanBell> yyyy-mm-dd is more defensible than that
<shauno> it seems we used to write the month first.  now we don't. and I can't narrow down the shift between them at all
<Myrtti> oh
<Myrtti> my
<Myrtti> gawd
<Myrtti> http://www.magdalenahai.com/joulu-saapuu-mordoriin-pipar-dur/
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: please do not take this as being against the Coc
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: but are all Finnish people that weird?
<gordonjcp> it's a work of insane genius
 * gordonjcp has yet to meet a Finnish person that could poke sane with a long stick
<Myrtti> we are creatively mad.
<bigcalm> gordonjcp: one of my ex-gfs is Finnish. Mad as a brush
<bigcalm> Daft as a brush
<directhex> i need a collaborator for a community project.
<bigcalm> Is it to play games?
<Myrtti> collaborator
<Myrtti> oooorr conspirator?
<bigcalm> Just about to reboot to GameOS just to play A New Beginning
<Myrtti> mmmm?
<Myrtti> conspiracy!
<Myrtti> wooo
 * bigcalm wonders when OCZ will do something with my returned SSD
<directhex> Ye Olde SteamOSe. a steamos remix for older computers. BIOS-compatible, ISOhybrid based distribution
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I have a couple of spare machines
<bigcalm> All BIOS
<directhex> my i7 is pre-UEFI
<directhex> i cba doing this without users, and for that i need things i don't have time to deal with - a domain and a website, basically
<directhex> i'm one of the few people at large who knows enough debian-installer B&I to actually do what i'm proposing. all the community solutions i've seen so far have been rubbish
<diplo> evening all
<Myrtti> those with Google Now on your phones, try 'let's go caroling'
<popey> awww
<popey> thats cute
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-17
<Mydim3> hey can anyone help me?
<Azelphur> !ask | Mydim3
<lubotu3> Mydim3: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<antichatter> .in 5 minutes
<Mydim3> anyone
<Mydim3> i want to install steam os and i don't know how help
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> not that damn kid again
<shauno> the one trying to put it on an old p4?
<daftykins> yeah :D
<daftykins> with i865 graphics no less
<shauno> with a high chance it's not 64bit :/
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> moo-rning ;)
<MooDoo> :D
<knightwi1e> morning everyon e
<MooDoo> morning knightwi1e
<knightwise> hmm.. looking for some nice ways to spice up my command line
<MooDoo> http://www.geocities.com/spunk1111/xmas.htm
 * knightwise ** eyes ** bleeding ***
<knightwise> was thinking more along the line of a cool color sceme
<knightwise> not too much fluf
<MooDoo> lol
<knightwise> I have to say, Ubuntu 13.10 screams on my Lenovo twist.
<knightwise> the 120 gig SSD does help so I can only imagine what an 8 gig memory upgrade would add
<dwatkins> hiya
<MooDoo> hello
<directhex> bonjour
<MooDoo> avec vu un cuppa ;)
<directhex> do i have anyone awake today who feels like collaborating on a project?
<directhex> i have successful booting of ye olde steamose as a bios dvd, bios usb stick, uefi dvd, and uefi usb stick
<directhex> well, in qemu anyway
<MooDoo> directhex: how's it working for you?
<directhex> MooDoo, dunno. that was step 1. step 2 is making the disk partition requirements more relaxed
<directhex> (and non-gpt on bios systems)
<diddledan__> I thought geocities was excised from the internet?
<MooDoo> yes it's closed
<MooDoo> unless ou're in japan
<diddledan__> so how is that link still serving evil asciiart?
<MooDoo> oh yeah didn't notice that
<dwatkins> with sed, what's the syntax for taking somthing in brackets from the source and placing it in the destination text? I thought it was (some text) and $1, but that seems now to work.
<dutchie> \1
<dutchie> $1 is perl
<diddledan__> I have great trouble getting sed to work with anything complex - it complains about invalid escape sequences left-right-and-center
<dwatkins> hmmm, I tried that but it failed, possibly because the source has a single quote... http://hastebin.com/wisasuwuho.txt
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Maple Syrup Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: what kind of calendar are you using?
<diddledan__> lol
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I don't know, but any calendar that gives me a reason to consume maple syrup is good in my book. :)
<dwatkins> When : Always December 17
<dwatkins> National Maple Syrup Day provides us with the opportunity to enjoy and appreciate this delicious American treat. This sweet and unique flavor originated in America. Native American Indians were the first to harvest and boil the sap of the maple tree into a thick syrup.
<dwatkins> ...and there was me thinking it was Canadian ;)
<JamesTait> Where did you get that from, dwatkins?
<dwatkins> JamesTait: http://www.holidayinsights.com/moreholidays/December/maplesyrupday.htm
<JamesTait> Ooh, I may have a new source! Thanks, dwatkins! :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<dwatkins> JamesTait: a new sauce? ;)
<MooDoo> hmmmm maple syrup and bacon lol
<JamesTait> MooDoo, no!
<JamesTait> Hi msm, aquarius. :-D
<dwatkins> dutchie: what is the \1 syntax called, so I can look it up in the sed documentation, please?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: those are capture groups, I think
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "capture" being the search term
<dwatkins> thanks MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's waht Perl calls them anyway :)
<JamesTait> dwatkins, maybe also back-references, but that might be a term I've made up myself. :-P
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: heard that too
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: but that might be only if you use it in the first part of s///
<MartijnVdS> http://www.gnu.org/software/sed/manual/html_node/Regular-Expressions.html -> back reference
<JamesTait> Oh good, I didn't make it up, at least! :)
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: no but you use the same words as those FSF/GNU people
<dwatkins> bingo! Looks like I need to include the '-r' option to sed to use extended regular expressions, thanks folks!
<dwatkins> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13128955/sed-using-extended-regexp-and-capture-groups for reference
<msm_> Morning JamesTait :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: why not use perl -n ;)
<dwatkins> output full of win: http://hastebin.com/pitoweyume.txt
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: because perl gives me the willies ;)
<MartijnVdS> it makes Perl work like sed and/or awk, giving you *Perl* regexes, with named capture groups (?<foo>blah) -> $+{foo} instaed of $1
<bigcalm> Weee, OCZ have got around to dealing with my dead SSD
<bigcalm> Received Date:	2013-11-28
<bigcalm> Replaced Date:	2013-12-17
<MartijnVdS> didn't ocz go out of business?
<bigcalm> Current location: TAOYUAN CITY TW
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<bigcalm> I'm glad that my warranty was honoured then
<bigcalm> Maybe I should get back into reading tech news
<bigcalm> What's a good source?
<foobarry> g+
<MartijnVdS> arstechnica
<MooDoo> mashable
<bigcalm> Is Thunderbird any good with RSS?
<foobarry> verge (except the their love of apple)
<popey> yc
<popey> lwn
<bigcalm> wht
<foobarry> reddit.com/linux
<foobarry> slashdot for old news
<popey> https://news.ycombinator.com/news
<popey> http://lwn.net/
<MartijnVdS> ycombinator is full of "My way = best" types though
<bigcalm> I see
<MartijnVdS> (even when it isn't)
 * bigcalm pats Thunderbird - good job on being simple to use
<foobarry> check your RAM
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: looks like the Toshiba deal is going ahead: http://ir.ocz.com/news/detail/3014/ocz-reaches-agreement-with-toshiba-corporation-to-acquire-solid-state-drive-business
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ah! hadn't seen that yet
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: http://ir.ocz.com/news/detail/3014/lemmings-lemmings-lemmings
<bigcalm> It's one of those silly URLs
<MartijnVdS> "Let's put the title in, then ignore it"
<MartijnVdS> Amazon does those too sometimes
<foobarry> amazon are really bad at hijacking the back button too
<bigcalm> You have to hit back multiple times really quickly
<bigcalm> Stops the in page refresh
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: are they? it's worked fine/as expected for me
<bagpuss_thecat> morning all
<foobarry> yeah, sucks
<foobarry> put in a 12hr shift today, hope today is not a repeat
<foobarry> ^today^yesterday
<foobarry> got indoors and climbed into bed
<foobarry> faulty sun kit
<bagpuss_thecat> what would cause Unity 13.04 to run with the POSIX locale? In /etc/environment LC_ALL is en_GB.utf8, ~/.bash* and ~/.profile have been removed, and when I log in to a VT the locale is set correctly
<bagpuss_thecat> language and keyboard system tool says that everything is set correctly
<bagpuss_thecat> chalcedony: !
 * bagpuss_thecat starts up Gnome instead, gets the correct locale, and decides to live with it for the day
<diplo> bagpuss_thecat: I had that yesterday, removed US from locales in settings and it went back to normal
<bagpuss_thecat> cool, I'll try that later. thanks
<brobostigon> good morning eveyrone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<MooDoo> yo!
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<diplo> :source /home/andy/.byobu/profile
<diplo> . /usr/bin/byobu-reconnect-sockets
<diplo> :/
<directhex> success
<popey> Success?
<brobostigon> its sunny, :)
 * popey has the blind shut
<popey> cloudy here
<brobostigon> :(
<diplo> Anyone got any suggestions, very intermittently we get a 403 on our web page, sites worked fine for months.. nothings changed in the htaccess
<diplo> Web host saying nothing is wrong, I can't recreate locally EVER
<directhex> popey, did an install in virt-manager on a bios-based vm, from my steamos .iso
<SuperMat1> I was a little perplexed why it wasn't released as an iso in the first place
<directhex> SuperMat1, reduce the target area
<SuperMatt> directhex: how so?
<directhex> SuperMat1, BIOS DVD boot, BIOS USB boot, UEFI DVD boot and UEFI USB boot are all different & need subtle tweaking
<SuperMatt> ah right
<MartijnVdS> though dd/cdrecord'ing the Ubuntu ISO to an USB stick or CD/DVD works great for all of those cases
<MartijnVdS> well
<MartijnVdS> except maybe bios usb boot? not sure about that one
<directhex> MartijnVdS, that's through a bunch of extra work
<MartijnVdS> directhex: yes, but it's all been done, so you don't have to twiddle bits yourself
<directhex> MartijnVdS, unless you modify anything
<MartijnVdS> directhex: aren't there scripts to re-fix it?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, not particularly documented. mostly you just need a giant xorriso command-line, assuming you don't touch the package manifest
<MartijnVdS> what a beautiful name for a tool though ;)
<TwistedLucidity> I have totally failed to get SteamOS to boot. VBox get stuck on UEFI and refuses to do anything. No big loss really, was just curious about it.
<directhex> TwistedLucidity, boots fine for me now. next step: enable emulated 3d support
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: I got no idea what's wrong. I get to the UFEI prompt, try to launch the steam64.efi thing and....nothing happens.
<TwistedLucidity> Never used UEFI before, so I might be getting something wrong
<gordonjcp> directhex: what did you do to get it to boot?
<directhex> gordonjcp, which bit?
<gordonjcp> directhex: SteamOS
<directhex> gordonjcp, i've injected modified BIOS GRUB packages into the package tree & rebuilt all required manifests, and i've created a bootable el torito isohybrid disc by transplanting various isolinux files from wheezy's installer
<gordonjcp> sweet
<gordonjcp> I tried netbooting it to fake EFI but I got nowhere :-)
 * foobarry needs a hug
 * popey hugs foobarry 
 * popey tickles foobarry while hugging
<foobarry> important storage cluster been down since 00:12 on friday morning
<SuperMatt> D:
<foobarry> got home last niht and cralwed into bed straight away
<foobarry> sort of promised wifey wouldn't do that today
<foobarry> missed a roast dinner too
<SuperMatt> I got home at midnight last night, after an hour at the gym and four hours dancing... then I just couldn't sleep
<foobarry> not surprised
<SuperMatt> I'm so far beyond exhausted right now
<foobarry> surely gym and dancing are kind of duplicating the exercise
<SuperMatt> I had 2 hours to kill before dancing
<SuperMatt> so I went to the gym
<foobarry> you could have snoozed
<foobarry> or had a sauna at the gym
<SuperMatt> doesn't have a sauna
<foobarry> i've never been to a gym
<foobarry> i don't know what happens there
<MooDoo> you pick up heavy things
<SuperMatt> mostly you feel inadequate compared to everyone else
<SuperMatt> and you pick up heavy things
<SuperMatt> I mostly do running and stuff
<dutchie>  sometimes you pretend to run/cycle/row place
<foobarry> lol
<dutchie> s
<foobarry> you could run to the gym
<MooDoo> I've got two speeds, slow and stop
<foobarry> then run home without going in
<foobarry> cheaper and less self loathing
<foobarry> although i'd like a running machine to tie doggy onto
<SuperMatt> sure, but when it's wet and dark out, like it is at the moment, it's just nice to be able to do your running indoors
<foobarry> treadmill
<foobarry> stairs
<SuperMatt> I don't have room for a treadmill and I don't have stairs ;)
<foobarry> stand in a machien room for 12 hours like i did yesterday
<foobarry> !sauna
<foobarry> mmmmm topic bar
<foobarry> facebook are doing auto playing video ads?
<foobarry> FAIL
<jussi> NOOOO
<jussi> I hate autoplaying video ads..
<MartijnVdS> time to move to G+ :)
<foobarry> i dont want my family on g+
<foobarry> keep my family pics and tech news separate!
<bashrc> autoplaying ads - how wonderful
<MartijnVdS> that's why you have different circles
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: ^
<popey> dropbox down?
<popey> my icon has gone grey
<popey> on both computers
<MartijnVdS> popey: maybe it's in the new block lists used by ISPs?
<MartijnVdS> because it could be used for terrorism/child abuse/etc.
<diplo> Mine has gone grey as well popey
<directhex> ok. 3d enabled in the vmware driver on the dvd
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> directhex: you should rename yourself to directh4x ;)
<directhex> wonder which package provides virtualbox's 3d driver
<MartijnVdS> directhex: is there one?!
<MartijnVdS> it's probably part of the "guest additions"?
<foobarry> has anyone seen a bug/issue in android where you send a text to a number and they reply back and you cannot reply to them because 1 digit gets removed each time?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: never experienced that
<dwatkins> me neither, the only bug I've seen that's even vaguely related is that my phone puts SMS messages out of order because the network fails to account for the timezone for received messages
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: at least that's not as buggy as one of my previous phones (a Palm with GSM features :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: With a SIM from country A, receiving an SMS country B while roaming in country C made the phone wipe itself
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: reproducibly
<dwatkins> oh my
<MartijnVdS> (at least with A=Vodafone-NL, B=Czech Republic, C=Germany)
<foobarry> me and my wife have it with certain numbers
<dwatkins> that sounds like technological warfare ;)
<foobarry> a number starting 0781 becomes 081...
<dwatkins> My mobile number used to start 0370, now it's 07770, but that's all due to the big number change of about 14 years ago
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: mine was a Palm Tungsten W.. late 2003 early 04
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I've had my number since around 2001
<MartijnVdS> oh wow http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/palm-tungsten-w/4505-6452_7-20897089.html
<directhex> virtualbox-guest-x11
<MartijnVdS> after that, I got a Motorola E1000. Before that, a few Nokia phones
 * MartijnVdS had a 3650 (with the circular keypad)
<MooDoo> anyone recommend a decent low cost server for about 3/400 quids?  I know about the microserver, just for running linux /web/mail/playing about ?
<MartijnVdS> AWS :P
<MooDoo> i want a physical box for my garage
 * MartijnVdS thinks AlanBell and TheOpenSourcerer can help you for realz though
<MartijnVdS> maybe even popey
<MartijnVdS> Alan *, really 8_)
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: I've been running a VIA C700 Jetway mobo for about 4/5 years now. Has a 3TB hdd connected and 1GB ram.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: self build?
<foobarry> MooDoo: get a free poweredge 2950 from a friendly local
<TheOpenSourcerer> yep
<TheOpenSourcerer> V. low power
<TheOpenSourcerer> ~20 - 30W total
<TheOpenSourcerer> It runs a dlna server, samba file server,  has run web and even Java apps too ;-)
<MooDoo> foobarry: you mean like this one - r, samba file server,  has run web and even Java app
<ormiret> MooDoo: definitely think about power uasage for something that'll be on all the time, 1W is about Â£1/year
<MooDoo> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-PowerEdge-2950-III-2X-2-00GHZ-QUAD-CORE-16GB-RAM-2-X-73GB-3-X-750-GB-PERC-/221337291352
<foobarry> lots of people been giving stuff like that away
<foobarry> out of support contract, ripping them out of racks
<foobarry> not low power though ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> this was/is it: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2007/09/untangle-asterisk-pbx-and-file-server-all-in-one/
<popey> that looks noisy
<popey> just from the picture
<popey> MooDoo: I have an old 1st Gen microserver and love it
<popey> it's done well
<TheOpenSourcerer> That dell server will SCREEAAMMM
<popey> i have a 2U server in my garage which i never turn on
<popey> (the old lug.org.uk box)
<TheOpenSourcerer> And EAT electricity
<popey> yeah
<foobarry> good for running esxi
<MooDoo> foobarry: that's what I'm looking at :)
<MooDoo> popey: can't you get them direct from HP?
<foobarry> if i was still in my old role i'd give you one for free
<foobarry> kinda outside my jursdiction now
<MooDoo> ok seen them on amazon
<foobarry> we've had between 6-8 disks go bad on an array :-|
<foobarry> in a couple of days
<foobarry> what the heck is happening
<MartijnVdS> cosmic rays.
<foobarry> yeah baby
<diplo> We used to run the 2950's at work, about 50= of them
<diplo> 50+ *
<foobarry> reliable machines
<foobarry> MooDoo: or maybe a 1950
<foobarry> if you don't need loads of disks
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: there are DNA scanners in the same room...
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: radiation leaks?
<popey> MooDoo: yeah, think so
<diplo> They're very very noisy though!
<MooDoo> hmmm might just even upgrade my nas from netgear to synology
<directhex> ok, tested: out of the box 3d support on virtualbox, big picture runs
 * foobarry hasn't won any toys on the advent calendar comps yet
<directhex> tested: out of the box 3d support on vmware, gnome shell runs but haven't tried BP yet
<AlanBell> MooDoo: the 2U server will be a bit noisy, but it is the 1U boxes that are the real screamers. Personally I would go for something sold as a desktop if the rack mount fixings are not the reason you are buying it
<AlanBell> servers are rubbish - unless you need them, in which case they are OK
<MooDoo> AlanBell: yeah I was thinking of a desktop might just simpler
<AlanBell> servers take *ages* to boot up, are noisy and power hungry
<diplo> I used a a old Optiplex as my server at work
<diplo> dead quiet
<MooDoo> diplo: I'm using an optiplex now, can get them cheap from mcscom.co.uk
<Myrtti> optiplexi are nice
<dwatkins> I'm trying to turn an old Mac Pro into a vmware server.
<diplo> I got mine from my old work, they were chucking it out, bought some more ram and it's as ogood as newish
<diplo> Would like an SS D in it but really can't afford one atm
<MartijnVdS> diplo: I hear OCZs are going cheap 8-)
<diplo> Wrong time of year for me unfortunatley with two young kids and a single dad :/
<diplo> See how I'm doing in Jan sales :)
<MartijnVdS> diplo: I see how that would decrease the "computer toys" budget
<Laney> mmm, got some limoncello in town as a christmas present to self
<MartijnVdS> Laney: you must hate yourself 8-)
<Laney> i loooooooooooooooooooooooove it
<directhex> Azelphur, iirc you have capacity to help seed linuxy torrents?
<Azelphur> directhex: what are you after?
<directhex> Azelphur, i'm putting together a steamos remix
<Azelphur> daftykins: if you can talk me through the seeding process on a server, I should be able to help
<ali1234> if you send me the torrent file i'll seed it on my server
<diplo> Evening all
<directhex> can someone try downloading magnet:?xt=urn:btih:b1efce9ea21632084db51c6e5fe922ce0849b17c&dn=yeoldesteamos-1.0beta1alpha1.iso ?
<arc__> hey how do i install age of empires 2 on ubuntu 12.04
<directhex> arc__, um... i guess with wine
<arc__> do i mount the iso and go ?
<arc__> ok with the sarcasm
<directhex> maybe? i think #winehq might be more help
<arc__> kk
<diplo> directhex: Works
<diplo> Want me to keep it running, or just a test ?
<directhex> diplo, well, this is my first release, so if you want to help share it, keep running :D
<diplo> Will do, running/dling on my home server so will leave it on for a few days
<diplo> Running from your home ?
<directhex> yes
<directhex> let's see if i can hammer through the router for more speed
<directhex> hm, should be UPnP'd
<diplo> Getting about 105 on average, 2 1/2 hours till completion
<directhex> i have 16mbit up...
<diplo> Oh.... :/
<directhex> and transmission says it's opened a upnp port
 * popey suspects directhex is the 31.x address
<diplo> :P
<directhex> i'll see if wife's pc does better w/ a different client
<popey> directhex: do you have a torrent file?
<popey> not a magnet link
<directhex> popey, um... yes. hang on
<directhex> retro.apebox.org/yeoldesteamos-1.0beta1alpha1.iso.torrent
<popey> ta
<popey> away she goes
<popey> hmm
<popey> zero bytes transferring, seems to be trying to get to a tracker
<diplo> Took a good minute or more for mine to start
<directhex> hm. can we try again? i'll try making a new torrent w/ better trackers listed
<diplo> Sure
<x70> evening all
<directhex> http://directhex.github.io/steamos-installer/
<diplo> Going again now
<shauno> seriously?  workstation is 190gbp?
<popey> directhex: 200MB or so on each torrent
<shauno> mine seems happy enough, it's just held back because there's only one complete copy so far
<directhex> wish i knew how to improve that :/
<directhex> bt throttling?
<shauno> okay, I'll admit android land is just confusing me; does nexus 4 get kitkat?
<popey> I'm only getting 50K/s down
<popey> wavers around
<diplo> yeah same
<shauno> you're around 25%?
<diplo> Should be done by morning though
<diplo> Not now, transmission-daemon got confused, so killed it and it broke so had to start a fresh :/
<diplo> I'm guessing 26% maybe popey on his VPS? looks like a bitfolk IP range :)
<popey> ya
<popey> other one is home
<shauno> hm, 31. is now claiming it has 0%
<directhex> restarted the torrent on my desktop, has helped a lot
<popey> 0 here
<directhex> hang on...
<popey> not moving
<directhex> grr, torrents /o\
<shauno> oh this is priceless.  Porsche are offering 3d models of the Cayman S.  Because it turns out people *do* want to download a car; http://www.porsche.com/international/cayman_3d/
<popey> directhex: just blipped up to 300K/s
<popey> now back to 0
<popey> keeps flipping up/down
<directhex> lots of torrent clients don't support magnet or udp
<popey>              295.0 /  989.0 MB Rate: 160.4 /  86.9 KB Uploaded:   402.8 MB [29%]  0d  2:16 [   R: 1.36]
<shauno> it doesn't seem broken, just slow.  I'm just gonna ignore it and see what it looks like in the morning  (I'm the 144. on a hetzner box)
<popey> i see only two peers
<popey> one is my vps, and we all have 34%
<diplo> 11% here
<shauno> I see 7.  and only one's ipv6 :(
<diplo> 7 peers in total over two trackers
<directhex> desktop is finally seeding a little, slowly. wife's desktop is ~10x faster
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-18
<popey> finally finished
 * popey throttles torrent before bed
<MooDoo> morning all
<dwatkins> hiya
<MooDoo> hi dwatkins
 * dwatkins is becoming increasingly disillusioned about Ubuntu, but puts it down to lack of coffee
<dwatkins> !bug 1070598
<lubotu3> bug 1070598 in unity-lens-shopping (Ubuntu) "Please make the shopping results in the Unity dash opt-in" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1070598
<MooDoo> dwatkins: come now, sit on my knee tell unvle moodoo all about it.
 * dwatkins picks up his teddy bear
<MooDoo> dwatkins: opt in would be nice, but turning it off isn't that hard
<dwatkins> it's more the general attitude that seems to being portrayed, that the Powers That Be are pushing Ubuntu in a certain direction and won't listen to suggestions, but I could be misreading the situation
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning
<dwatkins> hiya TheOpenSourcerer
<MooDoo> dwatkins: I agree with you, but can't say it's that bad when the option to turn it off is easy
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: morning
<dwatkins> I guess I'm just thinking of the stereotypical "new" user not knowing this sort of thing.
<MooDoo> the steriotypical new user won't know of the problem so probably won't care imo
<TheOpenSourcerer> What a morning... Thing 2 has had a cold that went croupy - at 06:30am was told to call 999 as he was having trouble  breathing. Whilst waiting for Ambulance we administered Thing 2's adrenalin pen... This seemed to help but now wife and Thing 2 are at hospital. Not bad for 50mins 1st thing on a Wed. morning eh?
<ali1234> dwatkins: you are just noticing this now?
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: oh dear, we had that the other week, so purchased a humidifier that worked a treat in their bedroom
<TheOpenSourcerer> We've had a steamer going for the last two nights.
<TheOpenSourcerer> As he has asthma/peanut allergy he seems to get croup rather too frequently for my liking
<dwatkins> ali1234: noticing that users don't notice, or noticing that the powers that be are pushing this sort of thing?
<MooDoo> oh dear :(
<ali1234> dwatkins: the latter
<dwatkins> ali1234: yes, although I may have not been paying a lot of attention to this sort of thing until recently.
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: hope Thing 2 is back home and all better soon
<ali1234> pushing through unpopular changes has been completely standard since about 2010/2011
<dwatkins> ali1234: ah ok, I guess I should find out more
<MooDoo> Our Thing 1 has a cold at the moment as is constantly tired, glad it's end of school yyear on friday.
<dwatkins> poor things
<MooDoo> dwatkins: yeah it's hard trying to console a 5 year old that want s to go to bed at 4 but he can't for a few more hours :S
<MooDoo> join #debian-uk
<MooDoo> oops lol
<directhex> ali1234, dwatkins, clearly everything went downhill when they removed mono from the default install
 * dwatkins sniggers
<TwistedLucidity> If they get too much wrong, they get forked. (e.g. Linux Mint)
<MooDoo> move to debian before all the problems start at all ;)
<TwistedLucidity> Some of their choices might stick in the craw of the tech savvy - but for new users the choices might make sense. For most people "Simple == Good"
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Not really practical for consumer use cases; games (for example) might require newver features than Debian provides. (Well, Debian Stable anyways)
<ali1234> directhex: i'm seeding your steam thingy since 6:30 this morning. it downloaded it about 5 seconds and it's uploading at about 10KB.
<TwistedLucidity> Still...whatever Canoncial does it can't be as bad as the fluctercuck that's Windows 8. Man that thing is horrid, Had to set a laptop up recently...took me ages to configure the accounts etc. PITA
<TwistedLucidity> The user took one look at it and asked "How long to get Linux on it?" I left them on Win 8 as I didn't have a HDD with me to image the drive, I expect I'll be doing it the next time I see them.
<ali1234> xubuntu is best ubuntu
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234 Kubuntu! BURN THE HERETIC! :-D
<ali1234> no, you are the heretic. nobody likes KDE
<TwistedLucidity> Looked at Xubuntu 13.10 recently, pretty sweet.
<MooDoo> to be honest it's the same with everything if you know it it's easy, i've used windows 8 for months and months and I quite like it after a period of hating it
<ali1234> 13.10 was pretty broken
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Some of the KDE rendering is ass, screen tearing is a pain, quality isn't always what it should be (Krita, Calliga, Amarok all unstable) but nothing is perfect and I have (pretty much) got it to where I want.
<ali1234> KDE font rendering is lol
<ali1234> oxygen theme is just... it just needs to go away
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Yeah, it always manages to look a bit "off" somehow. Not sure what's up with it.
<ali1234> i actually know what is "up" with it
<ali1234> i reported a bug and they told me exactly why it is impossible to fix it
<TwistedLucidity> Can it be fixed? Ah...I see.
<ali1234> so yeah... i'm not really pleased with the idea of the default theme having an unfixable bug due to the way Qt is designed
<TwistedLucidity> Well, maybe I'll consider Xubuntu. But having "Kompare" a click or so away in "Dolphin" is pretty dang awesome.
<TwistedLucidity> I don't like the way I can't force the titlebar to black. Not the entire window; just the titlebar. I guess I could learn how to hack the theme....
<ali1234> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283106 if anyone cares
<lubotu3> KDE bug 283106 in general "Button text vertical alignment is off with Oxygen theme." [Normal,Resolved: wontfix]
<ali1234> TwistedLucidity: xubuntu theming is incredibly easy and with some themes you actually can override the colours
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Ah, but I'm on Kubuntu.
<ali1234> well i dunno about kubuntu. i mean it has an option for everything, but who knows where it is
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: With something like the "Oxygen" theme you can't set the titlebar colour; only the window colour. I just picked a different theme that let me set the titlebar colour.
<ali1234> yeah, well, oxygen sucks for many reasons
<TwistedLucidity> Hmm....wonder if it has that font issue?
<ali1234> the "bug" i pasted is basically... Qt can't do buttons with drop shadows and make them look decent
<ali1234> due to limitations in the way it is designed
<TwistedLucidity> Yes, yes it does. Now I've seen it I can't unsee it. You've ruined my desktop!
<ali1234> and neither can gtk... but the gtk theme designers are smart enough to work within the limitations of the software
<ali1234> yeah you're not the first person who has told me that
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Like your pic at the end of the bug. So the shadow is rendered within the button area? That's retarded.
<TwistedLucidity> Maybe easier to code, but not what a shadow *is*
<ali1234> right. but there's nothing can be done about it in the QtWidgets model
<ali1234> the only correct decision is... design a theme that doesn't have drop shadows on everything
<TwistedLucidity> Well, workaround.
<TwistedLucidity> I don't quite follow what a bug can't be logged against Qt, but then I only have a tiny brain.
<ali1234> well, buttons can't draw stuff outside themselves
<ali1234> that's just a fundamental thing
<ali1234> and if you design using QML this isn't an issue since you can do whatever you want then
<ali1234> but there is no such thing as themes in QML
<TwistedLucidity> Hmm...well...remembering my tiny brain here...a object on the screen could gain a "margin" of sorts which is ignored for positioning etc, but gets used for shadows and what have you.
<TwistedLucidity> But I am no Qt or UI expert; so that probably would lead to a slew of bugs "I mage shadows 200px offset and now I can't read my buttons!"
<AlanBell> faux 3d always causes problems
<AlanBell> see the top bar shadow for lots of them
<AlanBell> one day raised buttons will be raised because they are GL objects modeled right
<TwistedLucidity> I actually thought that the compositor would be doing the shadows etc "Button at X,Y. Shadow that, offset -4,+4; colour #00000, alpha 50%"
<TwistedLucidity> Like I say, no expert
<TwistedLucidity> Luckily the new fashion seems to be for "flat" windows. No shadows, no rounded corners, nada.
<TwistedLucidity> Top tip: When running an install, don't click on "No" when you mean "Yes". face/palm
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: 2.5D touch screens
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: tiny beads under the surface that swell when a current is applies
<gordonjcp> *applied
<gordonjcp> when the button is raised, the button is *raised*
<gordonjcp> it'll be great, a huge improvement in UI interaction, and everyone will hate it
<TwistedLucidity> gordonjcp: Oh yeah, I rememver reading about that. That would sure solve it!
<gordonjcp> TwistedLucidity: there was a neat thing I saw about varying the apparent friction of touch screens for things like slider controls
<gordonjcp> by vibrating the glass slightly you break the stiction between the surface and your finger
<gordonjcp> stop vibrating and your finger stops
<TwistedLucidity> Well, rather than raising the button, I'd raise the edges and a symbol. That way you could navigate by feel.
<gordonjcp> yes
<TwistedLucidity> Technology - so advanced we're going backwards!
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Bake Cookies Day! :-D
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o bc
<bigcalm> Hi MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> Yay.. need to rebuild my OpenwRT firmware tonight
<MartijnVdS> http://git.openwrt.org/?p=openwrt.git;a=commitdiff;h=45c1d0704c17b0f0c166ec732bbefbb390c0b33d;hp=fdd86b954bab15f7490b1998795f910cd8721347
<dwatkins> I've been using Windows (in a virtual machine) for about seven seconds and it already annoys me ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: which version of iwndows?
<dwatkins> Windows 7
<MooDoo> dwatkins: you're too impatient, and you have to remember, it's not ubuntu.....
<dwatkins> yeah, unfortunately not
<dwatkins> ctrl+alt+F1 doesn't let me do things blindingly fast ;)
<MooDoo> oh stop knocking it, there is nothing wrong with windows 7
<dwatkins> I know, I'm just used to operating systems which do my bidding :)
<MooDoo> dwatkins: you doth protest too much
<MooDoo> :)
<dwatkins> I could wax lyrical about the little useability issues I encounter every five minutes, but I mostly keep stumm.
<dwatkins> This applies to all operating systems, since the tools I'm referring-to are mostly web-based.
<MartijnVdS> yay web-based tools
<TwistedLucidity> dwatkins: Focus follows mouse. FOCUS FOLLOWS MOUSE!
<dwatkins> TwistedLucidity: that's related to my original issue (I wanted a window below my mouse to scroll without selecting it)
<TwistedLucidity> dwatkins: KatMouse (other de-borking tools are available)
<bigcalm> Remind me how one finds out the version of an installed package?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: dpkg -l? apt-cache policy?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ta
<dwatkins> thanks TwistedLucidity :)
<bigcalm> Gah, I keep doing this
<bigcalm> git - I meant to commit a change to a branch but did it to the master by mistake. I haven't pushed, so how might I fix the situation?
<SuperMatt> roll back?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: create a new branch now, git checkout -b foo
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: then go back to the master commit, git checkout 32472987239abcdefg
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: (or whatever the id of your "correct" master commit is)
<MartijnVdS> then the scary bit:
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<MartijnVdS> git branch -f branch-name new-tip-commit
<MartijnVdS> that's not too scary :)
<MartijnVdS> branch-name = "master" in your case
<MartijnVdS> and "new-tip-commit" the id of the proper master commit
<MartijnVdS> so you might not even need the checkout
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ?
<bigcalm> Okay...
<bigcalm> I'll have a go
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so, checkout -b, then branch -f master original_master_commitid
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: then put this in your .bashrc:
<MartijnVdS> . /usr/lib/git-core/git-sh-prompt
<MartijnVdS> and after that, put this in PS1:
<MartijnVdS> $(__git_ps1 "(%s) ")
<MartijnVdS> (like so: PS1='${debian_chroot:+($debian_chroot)}$(__git_ps1 "(%s) ")\u@\h:\w\$ ')
<bigcalm> Oh, I already have the branch name in my prompt, along with colouring. Makes life a lot easier :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: that appears to have worked. Thanks :)
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<directhex> moop
<popey> moooop
<MartijnVdS> noop
<diplo> directhex: pimp your url, couldn't find it :)
<diplo> yoop
<directhex> http://directhex.github.io/steamos-installer/
<popey> my vps has a ratio of ~5.3, desktop has ratio of 1.9 for that torrent
<diplo> Mines only 0.6 :/
<popey> left it running rate limited over night
<diplo> Me to, seems you're preffered :)
<popey> hah
 * bigcalm throws the torrent onto his home server
<bigcalm> error(s): [11:17:05] Problem connecting to tracker - <urlopen error unknown url type: udp>
<bigcalm> Humf
<bigcalm> I've allowd TCP+UDP in my router's firewall rule for torrents. So why the error?
<MartijnVdS> "udp>"
<MartijnVdS> ?
<bigcalm> directhex: "30.5GB plus space for games" 30.5GB for the OS alone? o.O
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: this isn't DOS 3.3 you know ;)
<bigcalm> Pfft :P
<directhex> bigcalm, steamos upstream defines 0.5GB for EFI system partition, 10GB for /, 10GB for swap, 10GB for recovery partition, and all remaining space for /home
<bigcalm> Oh, okay
<MartijnVdS> still quite a lot for the efi partition
<directhex> the actual disk usage is closer to 2.5gb
<bigcalm> So, why is the torrent not working for me?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: which client do you use
<directhex> they're being *super* conservative, i think
<bigcalm> Um
<bigcalm> btdownloadcurses
<bigcalm> From my .bashrc: alias torrent='btdownloadcurses --minport 6881 --maxport 6889 --max_upload_rate 150 $1'
<bigcalm> Hehe, spooky
<directhex> bigcalm, i don't think btdownloadcurses supports UDP trackers, or DHT peer finding
<bigcalm> Is there a better headless bt client I can run on my servers then?
<diplo> I use transmission bigcalm
<bigcalm> diplo: I've used that on the desktop, I did not know there was a headless version
<diplo> I'm sure they support cli as well, but I opted to use their web front end
<diplo> ooh yes, works quite well ( for me anyway )
<bigcalm> I see. Simple to set-up?
<diplo> https://trac.transmissionbt.com/wiki/WebInterface
<diplo> Very
<diplo> Took me a couple of mins probably
<diplo> All apt-gettable
<diplo> https://trac.transmissionbt.com/wiki/ConfigurationParameters
<diplo> Is the main area you need to change which is in settings.json from memory
<bigcalm> Aha, it's transmission-daemon that I was looking for
<diplo> Yeah sorry should have mentioned that.
<diplo> Off to hospital, have any issues leave me a PM and I'll help if I can :)
<diplo> ttfn
<bigcalm> Humf, the web interface doesn't want to let me log in. Not so useful
<bigcalm> There we go
<bigcalm> Downloaded quickly enough :)
<bigcalm> Now throwing 150KB/s into the mix
<foobarry> guys, how can i use gmail for my work email instead of o365? how would that work if i want 2 separate gmail accounts? (personal and work accounts)
<bigcalm> foobarry: you can log into multiple gmail and google apps accounts at the same time
<bigcalm> Or you can use an email client, such as Thunderbird
<foobarry> on my phone
<bigcalm> You can add multiple gmail/google apps accounts to your phone
<foobarry> its mainly to get round the issue that i can't read email on my phone with o365
<bigcalm> You can't?  It works for me
<foobarry> how?
<bigcalm> Using exchange
<foobarry> activesync?
<bigcalm> I have an android phone
<foobarry> how do u access the email though on your phone? web client, activesync, imap?
<bigcalm> What OS is your phone using?
<foobarry> android
<bigcalm> Settings -> Add account -> Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync
<foobarry> the imap implementation sucks and used my entire 3g allowance in 1 week. the activensync is a no go because they require admin rights (ability to wipe phone etc)
<foobarry> did it ask you for admin rights?
<bigcalm> I think so, yes
<foobarry> my employer is not to be trusted not to accidentally wipe device
<foobarry> and on principle i cannot give those rights to my personal device to someone just to read mail
<foobarry> hence the gmail request
<DJones> foobarry: Could you set the O365 mail to forward to gmail and set gmail to have a reply to address as your o365 email address
<bigcalm> One has to go through a lot of steps to get to the screen where one can wipe a device
<DJones> Externally people probably wouldn't notice, but you'd end up with the mails you send in gmail & the mails you receive in both
<bigcalm> I don't know if your email admin has access to that, or if it's only visible to the account owner
<foobarry> bigcalm: its two clicks
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> If you know where to look, maybe
<foobarry> a user has aciidentally done it
<bigcalm> Nice
<foobarry> its very easy in o365
<foobarry> ^a user^users
<popey> i thought you could override those settings
<popey> I know I did a couple of years ago
<foobarry> not possible now in o365 2013
<popey> â¹ http://serverfault.com/questions/328828/how-to-disable-remote-wipe-for-exchange-2010-activesync
<popey> "No"
<foobarry> so how can i read 2 gmail accounts on my phone and keep them separate?
<popey> easy
<popey> the gmail app has multi-account capability
<bigcalm> I did say
<popey> you just add each account and switch between them
<popey> yes, but you said via exchange which muddied the answer
<popey> I'm talking only about gmail accounts
<bigcalm> I was also talking about gmail and google apps accounts at the time
<popey> i have 4 gmail accounts on my phone. seems to work okay
<bigcalm> <foobarry> on my phone
<bigcalm> <bigcalm> You can add multiple gmail/google apps accounts to your phone
<foobarry> sorry bigcalm i got confused ,
<bigcalm> No worries :)
<foobarry> o365 is stressing me
<foobarry> gmail should spam filter a bit better too
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<popey> I find the gmail spam filter to be excellent
<bigcalm> Ditto
<foobarry> we have corporate o365
<bigcalm> I never get spam to my inbox
<foobarry> i think stuff has been disabled
<foobarry> by my wonderful company
<popey> you keep flip-flopping between moaning about gmail and o365
<popey> which makes it hard to follow
<bigcalm> I also never get spam to my inbox with o365
<foobarry> no, i'm not moaning about gmail at all
<foobarry> gmail is great
<funkyHat> I find the gmail spam filter *usually* excellent, but occasionally it lets through stuff that should be obviously spam, and I have to check spam because it occasionally marks stuff as spam when it's not
<popey> 12:15:37 < foobarry> gmail should spam filter a bit better too
<foobarry> gmail will filter spam coming via my o365
<funkyHat> Actually it went through a phase of marking nearly every freecycle email as spam even though I'd repeatedly clicked the "not spam" button on hundreds of them
<foobarry>  gmail should/will spam filter those mails coming through o365a bit better
<foobarry> gmail is spam free, largely, o365 is full of spam about property development
<foobarry> and other such crap
<foobarry> lol my first email from gmail team got spammed by gmail
 * DJones contemplates a new laptop
 * foobarry has it setup now. accoutn switching very slick, cheers popey bigcalm 
<foobarry> undecided whether to use the o365 smtp or gmail smtp
<popey> yay
<foobarry> currently takes 30 seconds+ to send mail via TB to o365
<foobarry> never known such a bad system
<DJones> Looks a nice price, i7, 6Gb ram, 1TB hdd for Â£540, wonder what the downside is (apart from the default Win 8 install)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: spinning rust disks, probably
<MartijnVdS> DJones: also, 6GB isn't a lot these days
<DJones> MartijnVdS: I would guess so, can't see a laptop at that price having 1 TB SSD
<MooDoo> are we doing anything for the global jam this year?  or  is it to early to organise?  Get christmas/newyear out of the way first? AlanBell ?
<MartijnVdS> DJones: you MIGHT get an 1TB SSD at that price.
<MartijnVdS> DJones: just the drive
<DJones> Exactly
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: didn't you suggest a hangout?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: yeah that was a christmas one, but didn't get much interest in that lol
<MartijnVdS> aww
<MooDoo> just wanting to get involved with more things as I wasn ubuntu membership at some point.
<TwistedLucidity> I have an HP printer. When I load photo paper and leave the paper type at "Automatic" or set it to "Photo"; printing fails due to thr wrong type of paper.
<TwistedLucidity> If I force "Plain" (which *is* the wrong type of paper), printing works.
<TwistedLucidity> Printing from Windows is fine.
<TwistedLucidity> How the heck do I figure out who to file the bug against? (Kubuntu, HP (drivers team), HP (printer)....)?
<foobarry> don't think much of this 3 bird roast sandwich
<foobarry> tastes like chicken and mince pie
<foobarry> according to this article , this could be noah's ark https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=39+26'26.32%22N+%2F+44+14'04.54%22E&hl=en&ll=39.440626,44.235098&spn=0.002059,0.00574&sll=39.428354,44.230746&sspn=0.00242,0.005284&t=h&ecpose=39.43429465,44.234594,2678.96,0,44.993,0&z=18
<foobarry> http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html
<foobarry> One bitcoin was trading for as low as 2,560 yuan ($421, Â£258), according to the South China Morning Post.
<AlanBell> MooDoo: I am up for the christmas hangout
<MooDoo> AlanBell: cool :D
<MooDoo> it's amazing how many people come unprepared for ubuntu membership meetings.
<foobarry> without their deelyboppers and hot pants?
<MooDoo> yeah that's the one
<AlanBell> elf costume is only for applications in December
<MooDoo> AlanBell: I didn't know that you can also get ubuntu membership for irc related work from you lot :D
<foobarry> MooDoo: consistently appearing in top10 on ircstats :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> afternoon.
<AlanBell> you can indeed, there were lots of people who did oodles of support in #ubuntu and/or were operators
<AlanBell> hi TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Back from a hospital :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thing 2 is fine.
<AlanBell> yay
<MooDoo> foobarry: foobarry I used to be at one point then I stopped coming in here for a bit so I've laxed a lot lol
<foobarry> tbh not much support actaully happens in here
<foobarry> its more community chit chat
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mostly talk about food ;-)
<MooDoo> harldy any at all, neuro is the one next in my headlights on the irc stats lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> And chickens
<jussi> lots of chicken talk...
<jussi> :P
<MooDoo> or chilies
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed,
<foobarry> and nostalgia and talk about smartphones
<jussi> or drinking on trains...
<MooDoo> or stabbing davmor2 or czajkowski ;)
<jussi> haha
<jussi> poor davmor2
<TwistedLucidity> Oh good grief....the number of golks with their HP printers exposed on the public Internet. Jesus wept.
<foobarry> i'd be in fifth place if i didn't keep changing my name
<TwistedLucidity> (Was looking into my printing issue)
<TwistedLucidity> s/golks/folks
<TwistedLucidity> And a bug logged with hplip, see if they do anything. Last time I spoke to them, they didn't seem too interest in GNU/Linux.
<dwatkins> TwistedLucidity: at least they're not webcams...
<TwistedLucidity> dwatkins: No, but some are scanners
<MooDoo> jussi: davmor2 and czajkowski fight a lot, just stay and watch :)
<directhex> ok, ive posted detailed instructions regarding Ye Olde SteamOSe dual-boot. https://github.com/directhex/steamos-installer/wiki/Dual-Booting
<dwatkins> I've just been discussing "What is a Raspbery Pi?" with some colleagues who have never used one before. It reminds me that many people have little idea about how computers work nor how to set them (or their scanners and printers) up.
<dwatkins> directhex: nifty, what linux distro is it based on?
<directhex> dwatkins... steamos!
<dwatkins> aha I see
<dwatkins> looks like Debian
<MooDoo> dwatkins: steamos is debian
<dwatkins> groovy
<MooDoo> older version that wheezy iirc
<shauno> directhex: speaking of which, that torrent is much healthier now.  I've only pushes 17gig so far, but it seems to be running like the hot proverbial off a shovel
<dwatkins> it'll be interesting to see which graphics cards it supports
<gordonjcp> directhex: great SteamOS guru, would you think a Core 2 Duo with a Geforce 210 would run it, or am I going to have to build a new HTPC?
<MooDoo> dwatkins: nvidia at the moment, ati and intel soon
<directhex> gordonjcp, i'd feed it a better gpu if i expected any games to run
<gordonjcp> directhex: okay
<MooDoo> http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/1/648814395741989999/
<gordonjcp> directhex: I mean the same card coped okay with HL2 in a similar machine, before I nicked it for the HTPC
<MooDoo> i tell a lie, it is based on wheezy
<gordonjcp> not stellar but playable
<directhex> gordonjcp, any card on "supported products" on http://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/69372/en-us should work out of the box on steamos
<foobarry> my little boy makes a convincing shepherd in the nativity http://i.imgur.com/zFPYBr3.jpg
<popey> awwww
<dwatkins> MooDoo: hooray, I have an NVidia card
<popey> thats very cute
<popey> Sam was a mouse.
<popey> not allowed to publish any photos of the nativity â¹
<TwistedLucidity> THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
<foobarry> depends. could do. at that distance they are all pixels
<dwatkins> I've been asked to take photos of the homeless shelter I'm volunteering for, but I suspect that homeless people don't want their photos taken for some corporate "look what we helped with" page
<foobarry> he was in 2. was a sheep in this one https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=248707738618724
<foobarry> dwatkins: need to find a fake actor to receive a bread roll
<MooDoo> popey: I wasn't allowed to take photos or video at all, mobile phones had to be off...:(
<jussi> hrm, hands are minorly cold now...
<popey> oh, we were allowed to take pics/video, just told that they can't be shared on social networks
<jussi> I guess in -3 I should actually wear gloves when cutting wood...
<MooDoo> :(
<popey> there's a kid on the school who cannot be photographed
<jussi> popey: sinced when was IRC a social network? :P
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> and casts no shadow
<popey> heh
<MooDoo> a friend of mine was told under no circumstances was any image allowed on facebook, google+ rocks ;)
<TwistedLucidity> Ha ha ha ha
<TheOpenSourcerer> We had the same instructions popey - "you can film/take picture, BUT ON NO ACCOUNT MUST THEY FIND THEIR WAY ONTO ANY SOCIAL NETWORK!" (To be read in the voice of a thunderous female headmaster)
<foobarry> but google image search is ok
<TheOpenSourcerer> My kids was doing the sound (behind the curtain) anyway ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> *kid
<MartijnVdS> the sounds behind the curtain? Hmmm
<TwistedLucidity> Meh, just get the approval of very parent...
<TwistedLucidity> *every
<jussi> food would be nice.............. nothign in the cupboard though :/
<jussi> very wiet on the network currently...
<jussi> quiet even
<MartijnVdS> everyone's died from sudden lack of food
<MartijnVdS> they were in a quantum state of dead and not dead (because of not eating), and your looking in the cupboard killed them
 * dwatkins starts on the peanuts
 * jussi eyes MartijnVdS stonily
<bashrc> superposition
<TheOpenSourcerer> Was just reading this rather interesting analysis of the fiasco that is Microsoft of late: http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/has-microsoft-gone-nuts.html?m=1
<BigRedS> Free Windows Phone makes loads of sense - it's a way to not get sued by MS for using Android
<directhex> free windows phone won't help sell windows phone
<TheOpenSourcerer> And in other news I won a bottle of wine from a tweet :-D
<MartijnVdS> Isn't MS almost 40 years old, making this a mid-life crisis?
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: +1
<directhex> there aren't users asking for it. if someone goes into carphone whorehouse, it doesn't matter how good a lumia or ativ is. they want iphone or galaxy
<ali1234> isn't windows phone already free?
<BigRedS> I know several people happy with windows phones
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: nice one :)
<directhex> BigRedS, doesn't mean there's demand for it
<ali1234> i mean if they say "windows phone is Â£70 but now e're making it free" and then knock Â£70 off the price of a lumia, they will be paying people to take them
<BigRedS> directhex: no, but many people will buy what they're sold, rather than what they've researched
<BigRedS> I took that article to mean free to the manufacturers, in an effor to get more companies to produce more Windows devices
<ali1234> they charge manufacturers to make devices with their software on?
<ali1234> no wonder nobody will touch it
<TheOpenSourcerer> They charge most big OEMs to make Android phones ali1234
<TheOpenSourcerer> They being Microsoft.
<ali1234> right. which makes big OEMs hate them even more
<BigRedS> well, yeah, but that's different-but-related
<jussi> which is why tizen is getting legs...
<BigRedS> if a Windows Phone OS costs as much to use as Android, but doesn't attract lawsuits from MS, it looks more appealing than Android
<directhex> <ali1234> they charge manufacturers to make devices with their software on? <-- it's cheaper than Android
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not if you are a consumer or developer...
<jussi> BigRedS: except consumers dont buy it....
<ali1234> how much exactly does it cost?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well it's pretty much only Nokia anyway
<TheOpenSourcerer> Other WP devices are almost all dead. Like Win RT
<ali1234> i saw a lumia tablet the other day
<BigRedS> jussi: they have 12% of the market I thought? That's not huge, but it beats Apple on the desktop
<TheOpenSourcerer> And now NOK says it's working on an Android phone.
<ali1234> it actually looked really nice
<ali1234> except for the OS
<BigRedS> I think I could get used to the OS
<BigRedS> In the time I've used it feels far less unfinished than Android. And more like someone set out to produce a product than a rival
<BigRedS> but maybe most of my issues with Android are through having used it a lot...
<MartijnVdS> the big problem is that all apps have already been written twice, and nobody wants to write everything a third time, in a third SDK
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - the point was I found that piece an interesting critique of what MS looks like from the outside and what they might have to do. I personally think the split up and sell off would be the best for the shareholders in the end.
<ali1234> how does android feel unfinished?
<MartijnVdS> (twice = A&A)
<BigRedS> yeah, that's what surprised me about WM - it seems to have most of the apps people actually want
<BigRedS> (or the people I know who have them)
<popey> 14:30:19 < ali1234> they charge manufacturers to make devices with their software on?
<popey> they also pay software companies to bring their software to it
<directhex> android is a mess, but it's a well supported mess with all the apps
<directhex> android is the windows xp of smartphones
<ali1234> apps are overrated
<directhex> then you don't want a smartphone
<BigRedS> ali1234: Oh come on, it's a meme all of its own. The magic back button, inconsistent swiping, about six different style ideas in Google apps
<directhex> the defining feature of a smartphone is apps
<MartijnVdS> directhex: and android will still get updates after April ;)
<popey> carriers wont touch a platform without 100 or so very specific apps
<popey> without carriers you end up selling in your own shop.. see Jolla
<jussi> Jolla are doing remarkably well though...
<ali1234> you mean the magic back button that is the only one that actually makes you go back?
<BigRedS> directhex: I think the idea that you need half a bajillion apps to be succesful is largely wrong. There's probably a few dozen that account for the huge majority of use-cases
<BigRedS> twitter, mail, a compass etc.
<popey> its about 50
<popey> once you have those 50 (to 100) you go to market
<BigRedS> ali1234: yeah, but you can never really tell how far back it's going to take you, or whether it's taking you back or up
<TheOpenSourcerer> ... Google Maps and Navigation ;-)
<jussi> popey: also, Jolla do have *some* carrier support
<popey> then you get the next 300, then next 1000 etc
<ali1234> it never takes you "up"
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: comes with the OS though
<popey> jussi: not the point I was making
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: usually
<ali1234> it always takes you to whatever screen you were on before the current one
<popey> ali1234: nope, not true at all
<BigRedS> ali1234: no it doesn't
<ali1234> on most other platform back is the same as up
<MartijnVdS> in some apps it's VERY broken, in others it's sane
<BigRedS> If I open K9 mail in 'all mailboxes' and then press back I get a list of mailboxes
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: sounds like K9 is broken
<ali1234> yep
<ali1234> try using... gmail
<popey> launch App A, go into App A somewhat, switch to App B, click a notification made by App A, you get to App A - some buried subscreen. Press Back, thinking you'll go back where you were to App B, you don't you go back in App A.
<ali1234> popey: that's entirely not true
<popey> it is
<popey> i have done it
<ali1234> firstly, applications shouldn't even steal focus like that, they should put a notification into the top panel thing
<popey> where App A is play store
<BigRedS> Launch app A which triggers App B (play store, say), press back and you often go 'up' (to the play store home page)
<MartijnVdS> popey: it depends on what App A and App B have been programmed to do on Back
<popey> I said tap on a notification
<popey> i.e. you branch from App B to notification to App A
<BigRedS> and teh hold-down-home thingy that shows all the apps has the play store screen in place of App A
<BigRedS> ali1234: the gmail app only does gmail accounts
<BigRedS> but, yeah, this is a meme all to itself - there's probably hundreds of people who've enumerated most of this
 * TheOpenSourcerer has never noticed an issue with the back button. It seems to do what I want it to.
<BigRedS> Android is basically the Linux desktop
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/09/18/ux-things-i-hate-about-android/ ?
<popey> heh, yeah, I have seen that
 * TheOpenSourcerer updates website to Joomla! 3.2.1 - Which works just like WordPress now :-)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: is it secure yet? :)
<BigRedS> hah, and that's the Gmail app!
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: also, does it not do a million heavy db queries anymore? ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol MartijnVdS
<TheOpenSourcerer> Never noticed MartijnVdS
<AlanBell> popey: what is "back" in Ubuntu touch?
<ali1234> i have never seen that happen
<popey> AlanBell: we dont have a soft button for back
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: the db admins at my previous job cursed joomla (or its plugins) for being horribly inefficient, selecting everything from the database several times, and filtering/sorting on the client, stuff like that
<AlanBell> like all big PHP apps, you think "I could do so much better if I started from scratch in something else and spent a few years building it"
<popey> hah! just did it
<popey> i was in irssi notifier, got a notification that some apps needed updating
<popey> so I pulled down the notification, tapped it, it takes me to the play store
<popey> there's an "update all" button, so I press that and accept the new permissions stuff by clicking ok
<popey> it starts installing the apps, I press back and i dont get back to irssi notifier, I get to the home screen
<ali1234> i just did that and then i pressed back and it took me back to gmail
<popey> so it's inconsistent then.
<ali1234> but only for you
<popey> yeah, right.
<popey> it works for you so I must be the only one affected?
<ali1234> you can always never press back, if that's what you want
<popey> "patches welcome"
<popey> "you're holding it wrong"
<ali1234> between us, yes, you are the only one affected :)
<popey> etc
<MooDoo> sigh why are people allowed to purchase domain names :(
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: ?
<foobarry> had to bring my shaver to work today to do a shave
<AlanBell> so, in firefox OS, that should architecturally get the back button right more often I think
<foobarry> no time otherwise
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: "just purchased a xxx domain but wasn't sure what it's for"
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: not me customer.
<foobarry> :-|
<AlanBell> not that back buttons in web browsers work properly all the time
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I hope Firefox OS isn't as much of a memory hog as Firefox itself
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: ...
<AlanBell> dunno, if I ever get a handset I will tell you
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: sigh lol
<popey> someone has given me their Firefox OS handset
<ali1234> MooDoo: what domain did they get?
<foobarry> firefo.xxx
<MooDoo> ali1234: can't remember just a genericname.xxx
<MooDoo> trouble is the .xxx holding page is porn, imaging if you buy nottinghamchurchchoir.xxx for example lol
<ali1234> lol
<AlanBell> why would you.. I don't even . .
<gordonjcp> MooDoo: <shrug>
<gordonjcp> MooDoo: Rule 34 I guess
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: at least it's not a .travel domain. It's hard to convince people those are real
<MartijnVdS> Same with .museum
<MartijnVdS> http://netherlands.national.ethnology.museum/
<ali1234> for reals?
<MooDoo> AlanBell: they didn't realise xxx was porn
<gordonjcp> MooDoo: how... what... <incoherent>
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: .museum is real
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: ah, you can't even :)
<ali1234> but the rest isn't?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: .travel is too
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but "normal" people assume it's fake
<ali1234> i know
<MartijnVdS> they know .com, .net, .org, .nl, etc.
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: indeed I can't even
<gordonjcp> I am 40 and what is this?
<ali1234> but is netherlands national ethnology museum real?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Well, we call it the "Museum Volkenkunde", but yes, it's real
<ali1234> but is that their real web page address?
<AlanBell> MooDoo: did you encourage them to diversify their product offering to take advantage of the sunk cost of their marketing spend?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's one of them, listed on nic.museum
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: they usually advertise with http://volkenkunde.nl/ though
<ali1234> but what happens if someone wants to have a national ethnology museum in a different country?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: "tough, we were there first" ?
<MartijnVdS> dunno really
<ali1234> this domain system is completely backwards and dumb
<MartijnVdS> OK, ali1234.name
<BigRedS> it's in the same category as smtp in my mind
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: nice idea, horrible execution?
<BigRedS> it worked on a small network, and then nobody got around to replacing it before it got too big to be replaced
<BigRedS> so many things are like that because "it seemed like a good idea in 1973 and nobody's had a good enough idea since to bother replacing it"
<ali1234> no, i just mean the way they've set out that museum name
<BigRedS> oh!
<ali1234> it's backwards
<ali1234> the country bit should be last
<ali1234> not first
<BigRedS> yeah, it should be ethnology.national.netherlands.museum
<MartijnVdS> http://index.museum/land.php?country=UK&lang=uk
<AlanBell> popey: how is the firefox os handset? is it the orange ZTE?
<ali1234> or how about ethnology.museum.netherlands
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: like.. nl ?
<ali1234> right, exactly
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: because who wants to type "netherlands" all the time
<popey> AlanBell: yes
<BigRedS> nah, I like the idea of an international council of historians managing the '.museum' namespace
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: there's both "london.design.museum" and "design.london.museum"
<ali1234> you could even have ethnology.national.ac.nl since presumably a museum is academic
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes but we don't use second-level domains here
<ali1234> well, you should
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: tell that to the guy who set it all up
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: .nl was one of the first ccTLDs
<ali1234> fair enough then i guess
<arsen> Ho Ho Ho
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: .nl was created by the same guy as the Kremvax hoax
<MartijnVdS> (Piet Beertema)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.godfatherof.nl/kremvax.html
<ali1234> that silly long museum url doesn't actually work for me
<ali1234> it resolves, then times out
<MartijnVdS> doesn't work here either.. must have abandoned it (lack of use)
<ali1234> hmm i wonder why
<MartijnVdS> bit rot
<AlanBell> Azelphur: bad day for bitcoin?
<Azelphur> AlanBell: *shrug* fairly standard boring day for bitcoin
<directhex> dogecoin remains stable
<arsen> as long as the dogs are safe.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: such stable!
<directhex> MartijnVdS, wow! such market cap!
<SuperMatt> just... wow... http://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2013/msg00235.html
<arsen> for lols i mined some "stablecoin"
<dwatkins> That sounds like BSD levels of dilligency
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> maybe they're still feeling it from the ssh bug
<MartijnVdS> that, or maybe they used to link gnupg with libalsa 8-)
<quorra> bye
<SuperMatt> oh, good bye quorra...
<SuperMatt> we hardly knew you
<SuperMatt> like, at all.
 * Laney got scared that you meant "good bye Quora"
<Laney> not that I'm not cut up about quorra leaving
<foobarry> didn't even have time to shave at work today
<SuperMatt> you shave *at* work?
<foobarry> didn't have time to shave at home since a week ago
<foobarry> thought i might find more time at work
<SuperMatt> well well well, looks like I'm going to be a racker
<daftykins> o rly?
<daftykins> what service?
<SuperMatt> don't quite know yet
<SuperMatt> I've been offered the job, but I need to study everything in detail tomorrow
<daftykins> oic a job :)
<SuperMatt> their hiring process is a bit fuzzy
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> well congrats!
<SuperMatt> they ask you to come in for the interview and then pick the best fit
<MartijnVdS> wrecker?
<SuperMatt> racker
<SuperMatt> rackspace :)
<MartijnVdS> ah, cool
<MartijnVdS> hardware or software? :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-19
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> howdy SuperMatt how are you this fine day?
<SuperMatt> wonderful thank you
<SuperMatt> though I'm leaving for work now
<SuperMatt> toodles
<MooDoo> later :D
<Myrtti> oh boy
<Myrtti> I forgot to check what kind of a cable goes into the laptop powersource before driving south
<MooDoo> ooops
<Myrtti> so now I either need a european adapter or one of these http://www.netstoredirect.com/startech-com-power-cables/48232-startech-com-pxtnb3suk6-power-cable.html
<Myrtti> in about two hours
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey MooDoo , how are you today
<MooDoo> knightwise: yeah I'm ok thanks :) at work, last day tomorrow, just thinking about building another home server....
<knightwise> Same here
<knightwise> looks like I"ll have to do a little trip to France tomorrow..
<knightwise> quickly visit one of our company sites to make sure a server is hooked up
<MooDoo> knightwise: can't someone on site do it
<Myrtti> god bless shaver socket plug adapters
<knightwise> Too dumb :)
<knightwise> its ok ,
<knightwise> 3 hour drive each way to plug in 2 connectors
<MooDoo> knightwise: seriously?  really? no one is that dumb, ok I take that back
<knightwise> Hahah :) you have no idea
<knightwise> And since i'm the senior infrastructure architect .. Its my job to go do that
<MooDoo> knightwise: jesus pay me enough and I'll be your plug in biatch
<knightwise> Hahah :)
<knightwise> I don"t mind
<knightwise> its the last day before the holidays , so its a nice way to close off the week
 * knightwise plans on listening to podcasts and christmass songs all day in the car
<MooDoo> :)
<diplo> Morning all, need a web host this morning. I need a shared ( for now ) box that I can telnet out of for socket calls
<diplo> Anyone got any ideas? ( I'm in the process of setting up a VPS but not finished yet )
<DJones> popey: A couple of weeks back you were part of a conversation about routers/home hubs that would let you ssh in from the internal network using the external ip address and that some routers/hubs wouldn't let you do that, can you remember what the term was for the setting in the router that would allow you to do that
<DJones> I've got something like NAT loopback in mind, but I'm not sure if thats right
<ali1234> DJones: NAT reflection
<DJones> ali1234: Thanks
<ali1234> not all routers have the option, some will always support it, some never will
<DJones> Just found out by accident this morning that the latest Sky routers support it
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Regifting Day! :-D
<bashrc> regifting day?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Myrtti> oh wow http://www.hs.fi/ruoka/30+huikeaa+piparkakkutaloa++%C3%A4%C3%A4nest%C3%A4+suosikkisi/a1387341900783
<bigcalm> Coo
<bigcalm> Though that Sponge Bob is freaking me out
<AlanBell> gosh, we only did the gingerbread house from IKEA
<Myrtti> the trainstation they did is eerily accurate
<bigcalm> Is that Helsinki? I thought I recognised it
<Myrtti> http://files.snstatic.fi/HS/2013/12/piparit/pix/rautatieasema.jpg
<Myrtti> yeah that one
<bigcalm> Yep
<Myrtti> but yeah, there's Hogwarts (Tylypahka), Smaug (I think), few churches
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thing is, they'll all look the same once your fork does it's work ;-)
<bigcalm> 4th from the bottom looks as though it's been 3d printed
<jussi> the tardis is cool :D
<Myrtti> they probably printed a model on paper and put it underneath baking parchment and extruded the meringue on that
<Myrtti> like you'd do 3Doodler ones
<popey> DJones: i dont recall
<popey> Morning btw
<MooDoo> morning
<bigcalm> Ratio at 1.51. I wonder for how long this torrent will be popular
<jussi> unbelievable but true.... I BLOGGED o.O This happens like 2x a year :P
<bigcalm> jussi: about as frequently as me then :) Last entry was from February
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> must be the christmas feel
<ali1234> http://imgur.com/peilfAh
<bigcalm> Oh my god
<bigcalm> Argh
<bigcalm> I don't know if "ugly" is the right word here
<ali1234> it's the teeth
<ali1234> makes me lol every time
<jussi> scary?
<jussi> hrm, any wordpress themers here... ?
<ali1234> i know how themes work... i'm not a designer though
<jussi> ali1234: hrm, I want to basically have something created that in essence, copies the colours fo my qualle theme
<jussi> quassel*
<ali1234> that's pretty easy
<jussi> cant seem to type this morning... maybe need more coffee
<ali1234> just find a theme you like, and then hack the CSS to change all the colours
<jussi> the current one is pretty ok...
<jussi> http://jussi01.com/
<ali1234> you will want to make a child theme
<ali1234> http://codex.wordpress.org/Child_Themes
<ali1234> then just override all the colours
<jussi> ok. shoudl be pretty easy... guess Ill give it a go tonight....
<jussi> Many people like my quassel theme, might be nice to try release it as a WP theme also
<jussi> (curently looks like: http://i.imgur.com/mrD3P41.png)
<ali1234> quassel the irc client?
<jussi> yup
<ali1234> WP themes are a lot more than just colours
<jussi> jeah, I know, but for starters the colours are th important bit
<SuperMatt> I tend to override colours in css
<jussi> dammit, I think Ive lost my long 3.5mm extension cord :/
<bigcalm> I've just noticed that ABP has blocked 7 'ads' on my own blog. Is there a way to find out what it has blocked?
<bigcalm> That's quite a short extension
<foobarry> it used to be easier to check that
<jussi> bigcalm: no.... its an extension for 3.5mm plugs :P
<jussi> its 5 M
<bigcalm> Aha, the list is visible in Firefox
<bigcalm> jussi: :P
<jussi> bigcalm: you shouldnt be that nasty :P
<popey> bigcalm: I'd use ghostery, it tells you exactly what's blocked if you block it
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Myrtti> in case you're not following me on Google+, Happy Holidays peeps https://plus.google.com/u/0/100016383867666174158/posts/d8CrhbtKNcL
<bigcalm> I follow you, I just haven't looked at g+ for several months now
<bigcalm> Replacement SSD has made it to .de - wonder what I'll do with it once it arrives. Don't actually have a machine lacking an SSD now
<bigcalm> "AGT3-25SAT3-120G.20 being replaced with AGT3-25SAT3-120G.RF"
<diplo> Sell it to me for Â£5 + p&p!
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<bigcalm> No
<diplo> :-(
<AlanBell> should I run a trim on an ssd based server running 12.04?
<bigcalm> Is it okay to call male cats pretty?
<SuperMatt> sure
<SuperMatt> I would have thought now that it's almost 2014 we can do that
<bigcalm> :D
<DJones> I like this, some people really have too much time on their hands http://www.superawesomemicroproject.com/
<MooDoo> wow
<SuperMatt> foobarry: I got the job, btw
<bigcalm> Love that engine
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: congrats. What section have you been slotted into?
<SuperMatt> I'm not sure yet! I'm getting all the final details today :)
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: rackspace?
<SuperMatt> yup
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: oh i'm jelous, but congrats :D
<SuperMatt> thanks \o/
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: that mean you're officially a racker?
<neuro> SuperMatt: i have literally just connected, so i've only seen from "final details" but i assume you've just gotten a new job, so congrats ;)
<SuperMatt> hahaha
<SuperMatt> yeah
<SuperMatt> thanks :)
<neuro> in other news, i'm amazed how awesome facial wipes and a napkin are at cleaning an apple keyboard
<neuro> i leave my ashtray waaaaay too close to my keyboard
<Laney> woo rackspace
<Laney> where are they based?
<SuperMatt> wesy london
<SuperMatt> west
<MooDoo> hayes
<SuperMatt> yup yup
<popey> SuperMatt: congratulations!
<SuperMatt> thanks \o/
<popey> last night I quickly threw http://help.popey.com/ up so I can give people help over webcam without needing google helpouts
<popey> need to put it on SSL so we can do screensharing
<popey> and maybe put some auth on it
<AlanBell> is that webrtc?
<popey> yes
<SuperMatt> popey: websockets?
<jussi> SuperMatt: Rackspace sponsor the *ubot* bots, so good going!
<Seeker> SuperMatt: congratulations on the job, sorry to hear about the location :P
<popey> not fully tested yet
<SuperMatt> ah, you said webrtc, duh. stilly me.
<popey> haha
<SuperMatt> Seeker: yes, that is the downside
 * Seeker grew up in Slough
<SuperMatt> jussi: ubot?
<jussi> SuperMatt: Ubottu, lubotu et al
<popey> \o/ that works then
<AlanBell> yup
<SuperMatt> jussi: ah yes
<ali1234> popey: does that need chrome?
<popey> i am using chromium
<popey> but firefox works too
<ali1234> do i have to get someone else o join before the button works?
<popey> which button?
<diplo> I'd like to see it as well so up for testing :)
<popey> http://help.popey.com/?ubuntu should work
<ali1234> it doesn't seem to do anything
<diplo> Button is disabled ref share screen
<neuro> "http://help.popey.com/ wants to use your camera and microphone." Errr, no ;)
<AlanBell> neuro: well that is kinda the point of the thing
<neuro> yeah but i don't want to HAVE to put clothes on ffs
<Laney> hot
<neuro> caveat: i am wearing clothes
<neuro> people say this to me all the time when they learn i work from home
<neuro> "oh, must be great to work in your PJs/boxers/the nude"
<neuro> and i'm like ewwwww
<diplo> ah so i didn't get the prompt under FF, get it under Chromium
<Laney> i think it crashed firefox
<Laney> boom, the browser goes down
<ali1234> i can't get it to work at all in chrome or firefox
<neuro> i wonder if i can start a kickstarter campaign to raise funds to replace my busted apple display ...
<ali1234> update-manager has really get extremely annoying
<ali1234> it pops up every hour here
<MooDoo> neuro: what's the perks?
<ali1234> and when you "disable" it, it still pops up an empty window
<neuro> i get a monitor that works
<MooDoo> neuro: for us, autographed tshirt?
<neuro> you get the satisfaction of knowing i have a monitor that works
<popey> can I actively not contribute so I have the satisfaction of knowing you don't have one?
<neuro> no
<MooDoo> I'll give you part of a bit coin 101010100101010100101010010101010101 there you go
<neuro> funnily enough, apple don't accept bitcoin
<MooDoo> ah well
<bigcalm> My proliant micro server is great at what it does dat to day. But it sucks when you want to import a 3.1GB mysql dump. Speed does not happen
<popey> how much ram?
<bigcalm> 8GB
<bigcalm> I think
<bigcalm> Yes
<neuro> the microserver isn't exactly built for speed
<neuro> but you probably know this already :)
<bigcalm> Did somebody work out how to put 16GB of RAM into one?
<bigcalm> neuro: aye, does what it needs to do for little power. I like my microserver :)
<neuro> the N40L should take 2x8 no problem
<neuro> i like mine too, but i don't use it for anything more grunty than rsnapshot backups and bastion ingress
<bigcalm> I can never remember which model I have, but I think it's the N40L
<neuro> it's the one with the dual core turion
<bigcalm> Considering work bought me 8GB of ECE, I'd rather not throw it away ;)
<neuro> model name	: AMD Turion(tm) II Neo N40L Dual-Core Processor
<bigcalm> model name	: AMD Turion(tm) II Neo N40L Dual-Core Processor
<neuro> there you go ;)
<bigcalm> Oh yes :)
<neuro> i just have the stock 2GB in mine
<bigcalm> It took 7m22s to dump from the Rackspace production server. Still waiting for the local import to complete
<neuro> moving your dbs to ssd would probably help
<neuro> plus MOAR RAMS
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> It's not often that I have to import a production dump
<neuro> i have to try and sell moving our db cluster from stock amazon EC2 instances to PIOPS ones at some point
<neuro> also at some point i need to do a centos/win->ubuntu migration for most of our stuff
<neuro> mind you, i've been saying we're going to do that for months and i just haven't found the time *sigh*
<awilkins> We should so ditch Oracle and go for PostgreSQL
<MooDoo> mongodb if czajkowski was here ;)
<neuro> why postgres rather than mysql?
<awilkins> PostgreSQL has a PL/SQL compatibility layer
<neuro> ew, ok
<neuro> ;)
<awilkins> Plus it's more enterprisey than MySQL
<awilkins> Enterprisey counts for a lot
<bigcalm> I hate that term
<neuro> yeah
<awilkins> I use it with the finest tone of irony possible
<neuro> like "foody"
<neuro> ah, i did not detect that
<awilkins> We used to have a org-wide license for Oracle
<neuro> gah, why does all helpdesk software either be sucky and/or be stupidly expensive
<awilkins> I think now we have to buy our own
<awilkins> neuro, Because it's enterprisey
<neuro> lol, touchÃ©
<bigcalm> Why do I always forget about pipe viewer?
<neuro> Because reasons.
<bigcalm> Of course
<bigcalm> Considering it's been more than 20 mins since I started the import, I don't want to start it again with pv in place
<MartijnVdS> such useful!
<bigcalm> Ag, no
<bigcalm> After typing that, I can't but help read it as "gold, no"
<bigcalm> Erm
<bigcalm> Silver
<bigcalm> :D
<neuro> plutonium
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> no?
<neuro> it's fun!
<neuro> you know, for kids!
<Laney> trix
<bigcalm> real	31m22.547s
<bigcalm> user	2m57.247s
<bigcalm> sys	0m8.073s
<neuro> my hudsucker proxy reference appears to have gone straight over your head
<bigcalm> Who what now?
<neuro> that was for laney :)
<Laney> i don't know what that is
<Laney> so yes
<neuro> tsk
<neuro> no culture in here
<ali1234> O
<jussi> Congratulations (or commiserations) to me, I am now officially allowed to stay in Finland permanently....
<SuperMatt> you lead with the 'grats and you obviously requested it, so I think it must be a good thing!
<SuperMatt> well done jussi
<jussi> thanks SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> looks like today is a good news day for a lot of people
<jussi> sounds that way :)
<bigcalm> Huva!
<jussi> haha
<jussi> HyvÃ¤ ;)
<bigcalm> It's been a while :P
<bigcalm> "good" was the only thing I could remember for the situation
<directhex> SuperMatt, today is a day of EXCITEMENT!
<directhex> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thILxw6wBJE
<SuperMatt> WHOOP WHOOP
<foobarry> SuperMatt: congrts \o/
<SuperMatt> thanks :)
<popey> that video is brilliant
<diplo> Wonder how long until they get a DMCA take down video on that for Cokes music :)
<bigcalm> It's not an exact copy though
<bigcalm> ;
<bigcalm> )
<diplo> Doesn't seem to really matter with these people though... :/
<SuperMatt> it's a derivative work, which should be fine in terms of copyright, especially as it's not for profit
<SuperMatt> having said that, yes, coke will probably pull it
 * bigcalm has a slow boogie to "Self Control"
<bigcalm> Looking at "leather elbow patch" on amazon. I is old now
<TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: Or hipster?
<bigcalm> TwistedLucidity: do hipsters wear such things because they are practical?
<foobarry> what do they do? are they preventative?
<foobarry> or to patch a hole
<bashrc> hhipsters never wear things because they are practical
<gordonjcp> they stop the elbows of your jacket wearing
<foobarry> i've never expericend that problem
<foobarry> i think its a false economy
<bigcalm> I have a lot of tops where the left elbow has worn out
<bashrc> it depends whether you eat with your elbows on the table
<bigcalm> I put a lot of weight on my left elbow when thinking about problems
<foobarry> lol
<bigcalm> My office chair has arm rests
<TwistedLucidity> bigclam: I don't really know. This is what enters my mind when I hear the word "hipster" http://2.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/71/43/7d39bc3a24dee14013b5689279c3276c.jpg
<foobarry> in gneral the collars wear out first or you get too large
<bigcalm> TwistedLucidity: oh my, not me
<bashrc> hipster is originally like a 1950s beatnik
<bigcalm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LcnkkGAiU8
<TwistedLucidity> I wear Gore-Tex because it's practical. And leather (still better in abrassion than Cordura etc)
<foobarry> most of them in shoreditch look like this, but with beard
<foobarry> http://searchingforstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Hipster1.jpg
<TwistedLucidity> fobarry: Wannabe "New Romantics" you mean? But don't have the balls.
<foobarry> i went to a concert a few months ago and it was a hispter convention, everybody was indentical , was hilarious
<neuro> indentical hispters, eh?
<TwistedLucidity> I was indentical before everyone else was. Humph!
<neuro> ;)
<Myrtti> whee cloverleaf cable â¥
<AlanBell> Myrtti: http://i.imgur.com/Q2vLeIN.jpg
<Myrtti> nice
<bigcalm> Coo
<SuperMatt> https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/+MatthewAmes/albums/5959114794313753729/5959114795793714786?pid=5959114795793714786&oid=104760950939866700163 anyone know which star wars character this is?
<popey> Boba Fett
<popey> just asked my 7 year old son, who told me instantly â»
<SuperMatt> oh of course!
<SuperMatt> lollers
<neuro> SuperMatt: please hand in your geek credentials when you leave
<foobarry> the only star wars are 4-6
<SuperMatt> neuro: what foobarry said
<SuperMatt> I was mislead when I bought this star wars calendar
<SuperMatt> I thought it would actually have star wars characters in it :P
<foobarry> i should sell my yak face character sometime
<foobarry> worth about Â£80
<SuperMatt> nice little markup there
<neuro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdEUwHF7d7I
<foobarry> got battle damaged x-wing in box
<foobarry> etc etc
<neuro> WHEN THE FACE IS A PRUNE, ACTION GOES *BOOM*
<daftykins> in fairness i'm a geek but consider Star Wars to be overrated tosh :D
<neuro> oh dear
 * daftykins ducks from the impending flying tomatoes
<foobarry> i'm not a geek and 4-6 was my childhood
<foobarry> i hate star trek programme and all the soap opera derivatives
<daftykins> there's a distinct lack of good sci-fi out there
<SuperMatt> what's your definition of good sci-fi?
<neuro> foobarry: you "hate star trek programme"?!
<foobarry> neuro: yes
<neuro> you know there's more than one, right?
<SuperMatt> I recently watched all of TNG and had a great time doing so
<foobarry> programmes and their derivatives
<neuro> how can you "hate" star trek, is what interests me
<foobarry> i hate most soap operas
<foobarry> *all
<foobarry> my wife watches some of those star trek ones
<foobarry> worf , stryker, counsellor troy etc
<neuro> you know star trek isn't a soap opera, right?
<foobarry> oh?
<foobarry> is casualty a soap?
<neuro> technically it's a drama, but i'd say it's more soap these days
<foobarry> A soap opera, often referred to simply as a soap, is a serial drama, on television or radio, that features multiple related story lines dealing with the lives of multiple characters
<foobarry> The stories in these series typically focus heavily on emotional relationships to the point of melodrama.
<neuro> it sounds like you haven't really watched a lot of star trek, if any, or if you have watched some, you've managed to watch the rubbish episodes (e.g. most of S1-2 of TNG)
<foobarry> yep. soap
<neuro> errr
<neuro> no
<neuro> ail
<foobarry> that annoying gamlbing creature
<neuro> fail
<neuro> the annoying gambling creature?
<neuro> do you mean Quark?
<foobarry> i don't know his name.
<foobarry> yes
<neuro> he's one of the best characters in DS9
<foobarry> i've been told geeks get strong feelings about their soaps
<neuro> ah
<neuro> ok
<neuro> you're trolling
<neuro> never mind
<foobarry> depends who's trolling who
<foobarry> i said i don't like those star trek programmes and related spinoffs
<foobarry> loosely related
<bigcalm> How do you get `ps` to output memory per process as a human readable amount (MB) rather than a percentage of the system's total?
<foobarry> i've been exposed to a lot by my wife
<neuro> foobarry: anything further you have to say on the subject is probably you trying to troll us (or specifically me), so let's talk about something else
<foobarry> ok
<neuro> bigcalm: this is pretty ridiculous, if you're interested:
<neuro> ps -eo size,pid,user,command | awk '{ hr=$1/1024 ; printf("%13.6f Mb ",hr) } { for ( x=4 ; x<=NF ; x++ ) { printf("%s ",$x) } print "" }' | sort
<bigcalm> o.O
<neuro> i know
<bigcalm> That's rather silly. Thanks though :)
<neuro> probably needs a -n at the end
<bigcalm> MySQL using 1.2GB :D
<bigcalm> I'm going to stick that in an alias!
<neuro> that's not an unreasonable amount
<TwistedLucidity> According to that - plasma desktop is sucking down 2.7GB, kwin 2.4GB, XBMC 1.2GB
<TwistedLucidity> :-S
<neuro> i have a slave over here using 9G
<TwistedLucidity> And those figures don't seem to match top - odd
<neuro> i think it's looking at the vm value
<neuro> memory usage reporting on unix is weird
<neuro> then again, i'm using 13.5G of unswapped memory on a machine with 8G ram, go figure
<neuro> (mavericks compressed memory for the win)
<foobarry> http://www.reddit.com/r/dogemarket
<neuro> wut
<foobarry> dogecoin
<neuro> i know
<bigcalm> What the hell is dogecoin?
<foobarry> very fashion
<neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogecoin
<bigcalm> Argh
<neuro> note the "being considered for deletion" header on that page
<bigcalm> Oh dear me
<foobarry> in the top 10 fake currencies
<foobarry> you can probably buy www.windoge.com with it
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: W. T. F. ???
<bigcalm> TW -> PH -> CN -> DE -> where next shall my SSD be?
<bigcalm> Hearing the Windows start up sound makes me want to listen to the Bladerunner OST again
 * bigcalm does so
<neuro> weird
<neuro> i don't get the correlation ;)
<neuro> but then again there are loads of windows start up sounds
<bigcalm> Humm, I'm now reminded of the music from 'Rendezvous with Rama' game
<TwistedLucidity> Should be changed to the sound of someone up-chucking
<bigcalm> Oops, Rama (1996) not Rendezvous with Rama (1984)
<bigcalm> Nobody has made 'Rama' available for modern systems? I would have thought the gog.com would have it
<popey> what did you play it on?
<bigcalm> Windows
<bigcalm> Whatever was around in 1996
<bigcalm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama_(video_game)
<dogmatic69> bigcalm:  dosbox?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: I did ponder that
<dogmatic69> should work, most do
<bigcalm> Will have to buy the discs again. I don't think they survived the move
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fws4UYFyftA yay
<bigcalm> popey: 2K for half a page? Is that per issue or per annum?
<popey> 3 issues
<bigcalm> Ah
<popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/linux-voice/x/1051579
<popey> perks listed there
<bigcalm> Aha, yes
<neuro> "Our content will be published for free after 9 months"
<neuro> by which time, it'll probably be out of date :P
<bigcalm> Indeed, so why not make it freely available? I'm hoping for some handy tutorials that are relevant for several months
<bigcalm> neuro: I take it that you haven't subscribed?
<neuro> bigcalm: no, because i'm skint, otherwise i probably would have
<bigcalm> neuro: fair do :)
<neuro> 1200-odd quid on car repair, tree felling and work travel doesn't leave much for magazines
<neuro> which is why i'm so wound up about my monitor playing up
<Laney> pfft, cars :P
<bigcalm> My clients are great. One has started a ticket (for a project I work with, but not directly in control of) with "AWOOOGAH"
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07P0mXOjKBk ?
<bigcalm> Heh, cute
<bigcalm> Tempting to paste that as a comment
<bigcalm> Amusement could go either way
<bigcalm> Package has made it to FR. Getting closer
<bigcalm> Isn't parcel tracking fun?
<shauno> it gets a bit embarrassing when your gadgets are better travelled than you are
<MartijnVdS> shauno: having never been to China, most of my gadgets *are* more well-travelled than I am
<shauno> my laptop's been to kazakstan!
<DJones> Don't know if this SysAdmin/Webmaster position is of any interest to anybody http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/19709 For reference About says "Ekklesia is an independent, not-for-profit thinktank which examines the role of beliefs, values and faith in public life. It advocates transformative ideas and solutions rooted in a strong commitment to social justice, Christian nonconformism, nonviolence, and creative conversations among those of ...
<DJones> ... different convictions (religious and otherwise)."
<foobarry> DJones: probably if i was single and had a few hours spare a month
<foobarry> i used to do stuff like that for churches and charities
<Myrtti> uhoh http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/19/apollo-theatre-london-balcony
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: hm, I walked past that place last weekend
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: apparently, it's not just the balcony, but the roof as well
 * MartijnVdS switches to BBC News
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: a few years back, a helicopter crashed into Vauxhall station less than a week after I'd left..
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: (I passed through Vauxhall on the way from my hotel to the rest of the city)
<MartijnVdS> wait.. that was THIS year?!
<Myrtti> awful
<MartijnVdS> yeah.. wtf!
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: "All trapped people have been freed"
<directhex> can anyone try "wget http://repo.steampowered.com/download/SteamOSInstaller.zip" and start downloading a file which is not 1006147291 bytes big?
<AlanBell> directhex:
<AlanBell> Length: 1006147291 (960M) [application/zip]
<directhex> grrrrrrrrrrr
<directhex> stupid CDNs
<foster63_> Hello
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-20
<MartijnVdS> ... http://cryptojunky.com/blog/2013/12/19/getting-started-with-dogecoin/
<MartijnVdS> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.0
<popey> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Why's my keyboard suddenly gone all @US@ on me?
<MartijnVdS> because that's the Right Way to do keyboard layouts
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Blame the NSA, its easier for them to understand what you're saying
<TheOpenSourcerer> It was fine last night - now I have @ where " should be? and \ should be #
<MartijnVdS> none if this silly UK layout stuff
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm sure I've seen quite a few people making similar comments over the last few days
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: is it also wrong in the keyboard layout preferences thingy?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great I open the Language tool in settings and get:
<TheOpenSourcerer> "The language support is not installed completely
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some translations or writing aids available for your chosen languages are not installed yet. Do you want to install them now?"
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: This seems to be typical of the comments I've seen mentioned with 13.10 http://askubuntu.com/questions/367209/saucy-keyboard-layout-changing-from-uk-to-us-not-showing-as-changed-in-settin
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah it doesn't install en-gb by default, just en-us
<TheOpenSourcerer> But it was fine yesterday when I went home.
<MartijnVdS> did you upgrade anything? ARe you on trusty?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nothing changed since then. I turned my laptop off, went home, came in, turned it on and now I have en_US
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope. 13.10
<DJones> It seems to be a bit of a random bug
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Language Support gui thing is all greyed out too.
<popey> thats not keyboard surely
<popey> thats language
<popey> its in "Text entry" in system settings here
<DJones> bug 1245379 seems similar
<lubotu3> bug 1245379 in indicator-keyboard (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout changes to UK on 13.10" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1245379
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno - all I know is my keyboard went all USA on me this morning.
<popey> yeah, click the cog, system settings, text entry
<popey> add uk in and make it default
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's the only one I have in there ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> English (UK)
<popey> try flipping to us and back?
<popey> odd isnt it
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - Dicking about with that Text Entry widget seems to have restored normality. TY
<MartijnVdS> StrÃ¤nge
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Human Solidarity Day! :-D
 * Laney pokes JamesTait 
<Laney> yep, pretty solid
<MartijnVdS> but is he also ard?
<MartijnVdS> arid*
<foobarry> seem to have a leak on the rear passenger side of my car. any suggestiosn where to look first? window seals? door seal?
<neuro> does your car run ubuntu? ;)
<foobarry> this chan is my go to place for clever people
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: I'd look at the entire rubber door seal first
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: see if it's old/crusty/visibly leaky
<foobarry> are they easy to replace? jsut pop out?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: depends on make/model really
<foobarry> focus 2006 estate
<MartijnVdS> but usually, yes. Watch a few youtube HOWTO videos first though
<MartijnVdS> before you ruin it ;)
<foobarry> cool ta
<TwistedLucidity> foobary: Gaffa tape around the door. Job done.
<foobarry> might wanna open it at some point
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: how.. ghetto
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: so? Just remove the tape for a bit then re-apply
<Laney> climb out of the window instead
<MartijnVdS> Laney++ # pragmatism
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Brick the window, enter "Dukes of Hazzard" style-ee.
<TwistedLucidity> Next question from foobarry: I have a leaking window.... :-)
<Laney> clingfilm the car
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: cling film
<foobarry> silly season in here today
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it's Friday, Friday, etc.
<foobarry> all the door seals on ebay are used :(
<TwistedLucidity> My head is permanent silly season. The name is for a reason.
<diplo> foobarry: Used is fine as long as they are not cracked and are still suple
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Not a big deal if they are used; so long as they are complete and in good nick. You might be better off popping down to a breaker's and seeing what they have.
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> need to identify the leak source first
<foobarry> carpet under passenger seat is v wet
<foobarry> its been raining a lot lately
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Do you have a sunroof?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: maybe your kid is leaky instead?
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: nope
<foobarry> i experienced that with my mk2 golf though
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Mad idea here. Get some chalk, rub on car. Close door. Open door. If there are patches of seal with no chalk - there's yer leaky bit
<MartijnVdS> blow the car full of smoke. Points where it streams out = leaky bit
<TwistedLucidity> Anyone here an Inkscape ninja?
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: not a ninja, but I know my way around a bit
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: Know why it refuses to print small object which have a stroke set? Remove the stroke, object prints fine. (e.g. small square or something)
<TwistedLucidity> Thinking I  might log a bug about it. Took me an age to figure out why my chrimbo cards looked like butt.
<TwistedLucidity> Even the offical GNU logo needed hacking to get it to print.
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: No idea.. I haven't done much printing with it tbh
<TwistedLucidity> Really, really annoying 'feature'. Tried the SVG in LibreOffice Draw as well, it failed to open it correctly and lost a lot of the gradients etc. Hey ho. Maybe another bug there....
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: what if you open it in a web browser?
<TwistedLucidity> Not tried in a browser directly.
<ali1234> try printing to pdf or summat
<ali1234> also, did you put the gnu logo on your xmas cards?
<ali1234> i think i'm going to need to get a new hard drive for steam games
<MartijnVdS> join us now and share the christmas?
<neuro> stop that
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: But that's the problem. Inkscape will not print small objects with a stroke set; and you only find out *after* to try to print (to any media).
<TwistedLucidity> They don't even appear on export or print preview. Inkscape just ignores them
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: I put a Gnu and a Tux on a design I did for the local LUG.
<ali1234> so it's a inkscape bug then
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Yup, pretty sure it is.
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: what if you scale everything up, so the small object isn't small anymore?
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: Then it prints. Take soemthing big that print, make it small; no printy-print.
<TwistedLucidity> Remove the stroke (i.e. border) then it prints.
<TwistedLucidity> Really damned odd
<ali1234> try to construct minimal test-case...
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: I have with nothing more than squares. Asked Team Inksapce about it on Launchpad; answer there came none.
<ali1234> you need to go upstream
<ali1234> also you probably need to hassle people on irc if you want it fixed before christmas
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Only location I could find to ask questions was Launchpad
<TwistedLucidity> Not to worry - I'll knock up a few more test cases and log bugs for them.
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Don't need it fixed before Chrimbo, now I know the 'rule' I can workaround.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<neuro> I HAS CUPASOUP
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> cupsoup <3
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalmster
<diddledan> morning folks
<neuro> it's a minestrone one too
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> going for the win
<bigcalm> Hi MartijnVdS, good to see you in a cheery mood
<MartijnVdS> much luxury. so soup. wow.
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: no. just no.
<neuro> luxury, lol
<foobarry> croutons
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: No doge?
<neuro> i poured dehydrated granules and bits of bread and veg into a cup, then poured boiled water into it
<diddledan> doge is one of those memes that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever
<bigcalm> Much no
<neuro> and i've been stirring it for the last five minutes
<foobarry> diddledan: and thats what makes it rather funny
<neuro> height of luxury
<neuro> diddledan: name a recent meme that does make sense
<MartijnVdS> neuro: well, you could have someone stir it for you instead
<MartijnVdS> neuro: if you want real luxury
<bigcalm> neuro: have you tried Mug Shots?
<neuro> actually no, i haven't
<neuro> but i've heard they're rather nice
<bigcalm> neuro: they are indeed. Get the Tomato & Herb ones
<bigcalm> Or the Roast Chicken
<neuro> mmm, herbs
<diddledan> I don't get the premise that a dog would 1) spell dog with an e, and 2) is so stupid they can't even speak proper like what I does
<MartijnVdS> neuro: erbs?
<neuro> hoibs
<bigcalm> Or the Chicken and Sweetcorn. All the others are a bit meh
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: we can tell you're a dutchlander :-p
<neuro> i'm liking batchelor's deli boxes at the moment
<diddledan> erbs indeed
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: we prounounce "h" properly. It's Americans (and the French) who don't
<neuro> broccolli and cheese pasta ftw
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: and Belgians, too.. they speak Dutch with lots of missing "h" sounds
<diddledan> I'm working on a site for the belgians right now
<diddledan> it has both french and dutch translations
<diddledan> I have no idea what either says
<diddledan> and even less idea whether they're correlating
<directhex> diddledan, you're surprised at the idea of people thinking dogs are thick?
<directhex> diddledan, have you ever *met* a dog?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I was at a concert on Saturday, and the singer went "This song what I wrote" (jokingly, it seemed).. is that really a way people speak?
<foobarry> some dogs are clever, some are stoooopid
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.nl/2010/07/dog.html
<neuro> jings, the whole premise of cheezeburger was that animals can't spell properly
<foobarry> also, poor spelling could arise from english not being its first language
<diddledan> I think I met a dog once. but it might have been a squirrel
<neuro> SQUIRREL!
<directhex> e.g. http://imgur.com/PEztslL
<neuro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSUXXzN26zg
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doge_of_Venice
<diddledan> lol @ video
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: that page is locked, because of lots of "doge"-related vandalism
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> don't you just cringe at the thought that there's a thing called "doge-related vandalism"?
<popey> I still don't quite "get" doge
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: welcome to t'internet
<foobarry> i think its just funny with not much to get
<directhex> humble weekly sale! all linux compatible! source under BSD license at $150k in sales!
<foobarry> think like a stoned 16yr old
<MartijnVdS> popey: you're a cat person, aren't you? ;)
<diddledan> I'm a cat person
<diddledan> meow
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: no that's a *furry*
<popey> no, i just dont think it's funny after the millionth time seeing it
 * diddledan licks his hand
<popey> maybe after the first few times
<foobarry> most memes are designed like in-jokes when there isn't in fact an in joke
<neuro> foobarry: so you're saying you're a stoned 16 year old?
<neuro> popey: agreed ... the first ones are usually funny, but then they just get done to death
<neuro> or used incorrectly
<foobarry> then new memes start and the 4chan/reddit type say MEEEH that meme is so old
<MartijnVdS> those are the worst
<foobarry> slashdot memes have largely died thankfully
<popey> hm. stanley parable
<directhex> so, has everyone invested heavily in dogecoin?
<foobarry> or did i just stop reading comments
<popey> could be a game to play at xmas maybe
<popey> played the demo and it was quite fun
<neuro> in Soviet Russia, slashdot meme kills you
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: I was reading comments last week, they were STILL going on about Natalie Portman, naked and petrified, and something about hot grits
<directhex> popey, more than i want to spend on interactive fiction
<MartijnVdS> it's like going back in time to 1999
<foobarry> and its not nice MartijnVdS
<directhex> popey, Gone Home was good though, as an interactive fiction
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: well that's slashdot..
<neuro> so much ageism going on here it hurts :)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: feeling old?
<neuro> actually yeah
<neuro> i turn 40 in ~ 3 months
<popey> pfft
<neuro> shut it
<neuro> :)
<foobarry> getting slightly numb feeling in lips today
<foobarry> really worried that means a tooth infectino
<diddledan> ergh
<diddledan> tooth infection FTL
<neuro> a tooth infection is probably an abcess, so you'll get a dull pain initially in your cheek, nose or chin
<diddledan> is it just me that reads that as "faster than light"?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: For Transport London?
<moreati> diddledan: no
<neuro> MartijnVdS: unless you're dyslexic, no
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: or.. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=French%20the%20Llama
<popey> FTL always makes me think of http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0002882
<popey> which was an excellent shootemup for the speccy
<neuro> oh good lord, yes
<popey> I'd quite like some interactive fiction on the ubuntu phone
<popey> wonder how hard it would be to port over one or two of the well used engines
<directhex> popey, unrealengine3 runs on smartphones...
<neuro> probably not that hard
<directhex> iirc stanley parable is Source, so is Dear Esther. Gone Home is... Amnesia engine?
<popey> i liked dear esther
<popey> but then I didnt pay for it
 * neuro spies frotz and frizmo in the repos
<popey> yeah, that kind of thing
<directhex> ah, no. prototyped with Amnesia engine, final game is Unity3D
<popey> only needs a scrollable buffer and keyboard input
<directhex> so Gone Home could be on mobile trivially
<popey> http://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/Maemo
<popey> needs SDL.. interesting
<neuro> ya
<neuro> and libgl
<neuro> wow, beneath a steel sky is actually in the repos
<moreati> http://clb.demon.fi/html5scummvm/
<directhex> a couple of scumm games are freely redistributable
<directhex>   lure-of-the-temptress
<directhex>   flight-of-the-amazon-queen
<directhex>   drascula
<directhex>   beneath-a-steel-sky
<neuro> aye
<neuro> that's pretty awesome
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2013-12-20-104536.png
<popey> hehe
<popey> hmm
<neuro> oh dear
<MartijnVdS> connection defused!
<popey> oh yes
<neuro> you've broked it
<popey> i shutdown my webserver last night
<popey> it was running amok
<popey> need to investigate
<diddledan> skynet?
<MartijnVdS> popey: if you have fail2ban, you can enable its apache triggers in /etc/fail2ban/jail.conf
<foobarry> mining lihtcoins?
<popey> looks like wordpress issue
<popey> i dont use apache
<foobarry> lots of people reporting that their servers were turned into chinese mining platforms
<popey> 2013-12-19 19:46:35: (mod_fastcgi.c.2701) FastCGI-stderr: PHP Fatal error:  Allowed memory size of 268435456 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 4194304 bytes) in /srv/popey.com/www/blog/wp-includes/cache.php on line 457
<MartijnVdS> popey: just set enabled = true on the relevant [apache*] blocks
<neuro> popey: whoops
<MartijnVdS> popey: that sounds like someone trying to upload something huge, or a memory leak
<neuro> popey: you tried using super cache?
<diddledan> hmm. 256MB should be pleny
<popey> yeah
 * AlanBell sees popey's screenshot
<popey> yeah, restarted it
<AlanBell> so that is scumm cames on Ubuntu touch?
<popey> its the url moreati mentioned
<diddledan> I hate drupal
<diddledan> it's official - I have no idea how to work the thing
<directhex> did you recalibrate the dilithium matrix?
<diddledan> directhex: the problem is i don't know where that is
<diddledan> so I've got a "view" which displays correctly in french but in dutch it complains that the categories don't exist (they're the same categories as the french side)
<darrenF> edamato, ping
<edamato> darrenF: pong :-)
<knightwise> hey everyon e
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey guys
<knightwise> anyone have any experience with mediaplayers (the setup box kind) and Linux ?
<knightwise> i'm thinking about getting something like a popcorn hour
<diddledan> setup box?
<knightwise> yeah , like a boxee box or a popcorn hour
<popey> i think you mean "Set-top box"
<diddledan> I'm not sure what you mean by setup box but I guess you're referring to an HTPC
<diddledan> aah set-top
<knightwise> popey: :) I stand corrected
<knightwise> indeed
<popey> friend of mine has a popcornhour
<popey> has had for some time
<diddledan> I know nothing of popcorn hour
<popey> thanks for your useful input â»
<knightwise> aide from spelling .. does anybody have any valuable contributions ?
<popey> can you be more specific?
<popey> i mean, what do you want to know?
<knightwise> I was wondering if a popcornhour had any issues in accessing samba shares on linux
 * popey asks friend
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwS7_7BQ4bc
<knightwise> bless you popey !
<popey> 11:52:28 <@darksatanic> I think so. I don't use it any more.
<knightwise> ok :) looks like it does pretty much everything it needs to do
 * knightwise is getting rid of the pc in the living room
<terminalclient> popey, detected, but read squat
<terminalclient> can't*
<popey> sounds like it needs formatting
<popey> or its knackered
<diddledan> or it was formatted without a partition table
<terminalclient> formatted with gparted just fine
<terminalclient> brand new drive too
<terminalclient> damn it
<diddledan> try `file -s /dev/yourdevice`
<diddledan> that might be able to determine whether it was partitioned or not
<terminalclient> ok
<terminalclient> it's just hanging
<diddledan> hmm
<terminalclient> still hanging, I'm killing the terminal
<bigcalm> Humf, OCZ have sent me a replacement SSD, but it's marked as "Refurbished"
<diddledan> bigcalm: I had the same
<bigcalm> Not sure how I feel about a refurbished SSD. Thing is I don't know if it was pre-used (fewer writes left) or just damaged packaging repackaged
<popey> bigcalm: what does smartctl say?
<bigcalm> popey: it's still in its packaging :)
<popey> you *may* need to take it out
<bigcalm> ;)
<diddledan> for zealots among us: http://www.fsf.org/news/gluglug-x60-laptop-now-certified-to-respect-your-freedom
 * diddledan wonders just what exactly the word "zealot" means
<diddledan> aah, that would fit
<diddledan> noun 1. a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "My life for Aiur"
<MartijnVdS> http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Zealot ;)
<diddledan> so Dicky Stallman is good at hand-to-hand combat, eh?
<diddledan> so. when do we get the "Free Software Movement" classified as a bona fide religion?
<diddledan> I mean if thingy who invented scientology can do it then surely we can?
<diddledan> el ron
<diddledan> ref: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/11/woman-wins-marry-church-scientology <-- if a court believes a scientology chapel is a valid place of worship then the court is surely also legitimising scientology as a religion, no?
<shauno> things not to do on a friday:  typo < vs > in a bash redirection :(
<diddledan> eek
<diddledan> which file did you wipe out?
<shauno> nothing hugely important I hope
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fws4UYFyftA nice
<diddledan> well-done linux voice
<foobarry> linux voice sounds like some political wing
<MartijnVdS> the linux vice 8-)
<MartijnVdS> like miami vice.. but with linux instead
<diddledan> maybe it's part of a movement to getting a voted linux representative in parliament?
<diddledan> "and the representative of the 'free as in beer' party mr moo"
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Moo Doo?
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> moodoo'll doo
<MartijnVdS> moo doodoo?
<diddledan> as if we didn't know that was gonna happen... the editor dude who quit linux format at the same time as the already known linux-voice people has joined linux-voice as their editor
<diddledan> he had to wait out some gardening leave first tho
<diddledan> damned contracts insisting you can't work for anyone else within 3 months
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: 3? My previous month said 6. But only direct competitors
<MartijnVdS> my previous contract, too.
<diddledan> is the phrase "have you mooed today?" a direct rip from windows 95's "where do you want to go today?"?
<diddledan> note: apt-get moo
<shauno> http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/92185/whats-the-story-behind-super-cow-powers  :)
<ubuntu-newbie> hello there
<diddledan> moo
<ubuntu-newbie> Can somebody help me to repair ubuntu 12.04
<diddledan> depends how you broke it
<ubuntu-newbie> by mistake I changed file permission for all files
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> oh god
<ubuntu-newbie> chmod -R 0775 ./
<ubuntu-newbie> :(
<diddledan> that's gonna be a difficult fix
<foobarry> from which directory
<diddledan> I assume /
<ubuntu-newbie> from root
<foobarry> sounds kinda deliberate?
<ubuntu-newbie> luckily I can access command line
<ubuntu-newbie> it was mistake
<diddledan> I don't know of any way to fix it wholesale other than to reinstall
<foobarry> i mean, were you following instructions or something?
<ubuntu-newbie> no, it was command in history
<ubuntu-newbie> and happened by mistake
<foobarry> do you regularly use root session?
<foobarry> or sudo
<ubuntu-newbie> actually I installed ubuntu as guest on virtualbox
<ubuntu-newbie> yeas I use
<shauno> reinstall kinda is the best fix for that.  you can get back to something that appears to be working fairly quickly, but you'll forever be hunting down the exceptions
<ubuntu-newbie> ok.... thanks for your support
<diddledan> the main exceptions that'll hurt you are things that should be suid
<diddledan> you can get away with chmod 755 /usr/bin for e.g. but you can't do that to /sbin because some of those need to be rws (I can't remember the octal for suid)
<shauno> suid is one of the easier fixes, since the easy fix would be wrangling it through dpkg
<diddledan> 2755?
<awilkins> Yeah, but how do you run sudo if you chmodded it off suid?
<awilkins> You don't own the files :-)
<awilkins> Single-user-mode beckons...
<diddledan> awilkins: reboot single user
<awilkins> (or a reinstall)
<diddledan> exactly
<diddledan> reinstall is pretty much the path of least resistance
<shauno> you can get dpkg to reinstall each package, but it won't touch config files that way.  and some things (/etc/sudoers is a great example) are very fussy about their permissions
<foobarry> sounds hardly worth it. system is tainted forver - reinstall
<diddledan> as an aside - why aren't ACLs used. at all?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: they are used, in /dev
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: the sound device, for instance, gets an ACL allowing the current desktop user to use it
 * MartijnVdS learned that at a UDS years ago :)
<diddledan> I tried setting a webapp's permissions using ACLs but it complained that it didn't have the clearly obviously applied permissions because I guess it was only checking the standard user/group/other permissions
<diddledan> shared web hosting is an obvious use-case for ACLs but all the standard webapps will complain that they don't have access when their access is supplied via an ACL rule
<bigcalm> Current background is relevant to me :) http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/1366640
<diddledan> -_-
<diddledan> I don't "get" dubsp
<diddledan> dubstep*
<shauno> I need something that slaps me every time I try to write javascript :/
<diddledan> shauno: I'd gladly accept the task but you tend to do it at such random times that I'm likely to miss it
<bigcalm> shauno: there might be a jQuery plugin for that
<diddledan> as an aside, I wrote a node.js app the other day
<diddledan> it does very little
<shauno> the whole thing of just dropping functions absolutely anywhere fries my brain
<diddledan> I like that
<shauno> no-one does doSomethingWith(theReturnOfThis());  they just write the body of function right in there.  my brain can't handle that.
<bigcalm> htop is showing uptime as: 103 days(!). Why the !?
<diddledan> o_O
<bigcalm> That's on a production server
<shauno> it just does that when you get past 100 days
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> Maybe it indicates that you need to install a new kernel and reboot
<diddledan> that's a windws mentality
<shauno> http://sourceforge.net/p/htop/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/UptimeMeter.c   like 40
<shauno> er, line 40
<shauno> just to show it's not panicking about anything, it does just celebrate a round number
<bigcalm> Click the line and you get an anchor :)
<shauno> oh, duh.  I tried clicking the line number itself
<diddledan> I was just about to ask why sourceforge is so ugly but then I remembered that two seconds ago I read this: http://tech.co/jason-fried-design-2013-12
<bigcalm> shauno: yeah, github & gitlab do the line number clicking bit
<diddledan> literally two whole seconds ago
<diddledan> I'm hungry
<shauno> looking at that, tells me I shouldn't bother watching it tick over 1yr either (I have a box at 340-something days).  it's going to be an uneventful birthday
<bigcalm> Anybody here made use of nut?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: nut?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: Network UPS tools
<bigcalm> I have an APC UPS hooked up to my server. I'd like my desktop to show the battery notification information
<popey> http://news.spotify.com/int/2013/12/20/spotiamp-long-live-the-llama/
<popey> thats just delightful
<neuro> holy crap that's awesome
<bigcalm> Cool
<popey> they said there's plenty of people in the spotify office who would be willing to port it too
<neuro> i've been listening to stuff on spotify today for the first time in months
<neuro> been paying the full whack for it every month, might as well use it
<gordonjcp> popey: nice
 * MartijnVdS gets free spotify with $isp (xs4all)
<neuro> bah
<gordonjcp> anyone know how to stop things sticking to the top bar in Unity in 13.10?
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: unity-tweak can do it
<neuro> use OS X instead
<neuro> SORRY SORRY KIDDING
<MartijnVdS> +-tool
<gordonjcp> neuro: I use OSX on my macbook, for things that OSX is appropriate for
<neuro> gordonjcp: speaning of which, ello
<gordonjcp> neuro: hi
<diddledan> I use to love the visualisations of winamp
<popey> i used to love the simplicity and fast start of winamp
<popey> throw a bunch of mp3s at it and away you go
<popey> no faff
<diddledan> popey: that too
<neuro> i used to automate pls generation for albums and stuff, and just drag the pls file(s) in
<popey> IT WAS ALL TREES ROUND HERE!
<popey> WHERE'S MY EAR TRUMPET â½
<neuro> oi
<neuro> bloomin' interrobangs, indeed
<neuro> in a way i do miss winamp, but itunes match for the win
<bigcalm> Today's the day to get company xmas spam
<bigcalm> supplier xmas spam that is
<bigcalm> Welp, I've managed to get nut working
<bigcalm> Unplugging the mains from my UPS (plugged into server) means that a message appears in syslog on the slave (my desktop) machines
<bigcalm> Though it's not doing a broadcast message
<bigcalm> And I don't know how to get the battery indicator to show in unity :)
<diddledan> bigcalm: nice
<bigcalm> I am still waiting on the distribution block from Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gang-Mains-Extension-Sockets-Cable/dp/B005KCGUZC/
<bigcalm> Meaning I can't actually use the UPS until it arrives :|
<bigcalm> diddledan: http://discworld.cuth.eu/ups/
<bigcalm> Having nothing plugged in means a 2% load. Fun
<bigcalm> The on LED must be power hungry
<diddledan> I'm currently using 16% load on mine
<diddledan> 16 percentages
<diddledan> that's a lot of them
<diddledan> for some reason every manufacturer only gives you the option of using up to 100 percentages
<diddledan> you'd think like marshall amps going up to 11 there'd be at least one manufacturer who thought it would be a good idea to let us have more
<shauno> now that's not true.  mine goes up to 800% :)
<diddledan> if marshall can make 1 louder noise than everyone else then why can't manufacturers of leccy things give us more percentages
<diddledan> shauno: not fair
<shauno> er my laptop; didn't read that far up
<diddledan> I'm thinking more in general - why must everyone insist on only giving us 100 percentages? there must be more available somewhere?!
<shauno> I was going to ask how you're connecting to the ups, but it's a backups .. it doesn't give you any choices
<diddledan> if I want to run heavier equipment on my ups for example I will need more than 100 percentages to cope
<diddledan> even if I buy a "bigger ups" it'll still only have 100 percentages
<diddledan> !
<shauno> have you ever considered a career as a children's entertainer?
<diddledan> now that you come to mention it, no
<shauno> we should work on this.  I'm sure I Can find you some ill-fitting clothes and an oddly coloured nose
<diddledan> shauno: you could punch it?
<diddledan> actually, bad idea
<diddledan> ill-fitting clothes is easy
<shauno> I'd by lying if I'd say that had never crossed my mind in the last 10 years
<diddledan> just send me to primark
<diddledan> :o)
<shauno> anyway, I was just curious because I've got a handful of scripts for abusing the snmp-enabled ones
<diddledan> mine's a smartups
<diddledan> no network tho
<diddledan> it's got usb and serial only
<shauno> we have an appliance that mass-configured them.  over time I've collected a handful of scripts to undo the damage before anyone notices I put it on the wrong network
<diddledan> by serial I believe they mean rs-232
<diddledan> wait, it's got a "smart slot"?
<neuro> i keep meaning to buy new UPSes but i've had 2 power cuts in 13 years so the impetus to do so is low
<diddledan> what can I plug into that?
<shauno> an outrageously priced card that'll bring it onto the network.  let you manage it via snmp/http/ssh/etc
<diddledan> aah
<neuro> must ... resist ... innuendo response ... in family ... oriented ... channel ...
<Laney> giggedy
<diddledan> neuro: I tend to fail at that endeavour
<bigcalm> Guess what I did?
<neuro> i have a self-imposed filter that i have to type through to talk in here
<diddledan> bigcalm: innuendo?
<neuro> otherwise i'd be effing this and essing that
<neuro> bigcalm: fnar
<bigcalm> Because I don't have the distribution block yet, I thought it would be a good idea to turn off the UPS as it wasn't in use
<neuro> wheee
<bigcalm> But because I had just set up nut on the server and my desktop, the server broadcast the alert that the UPS had gone away
<bigcalm> Thus my workstation shut down
<neuro> whoops
<bigcalm> Shortly followed by my server
<shauno> good news, it works :)
<diddledan> lol
<neuro> lol
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Yep, it works :)
<neuro> \o/
<neuro> yay, nearly beer o'clock
<bigcalm> I feel dumb
<neuro> which means it's nearly battlefield o'clock
<shauno> pretend you did it on purpose, it's a pretty good dry run
<neuro> :)
<neuro> "OF COURSE i MEANT to do it"
<shauno> that is the best way to handle oopses.  "sorry, did I forget to mail you about friday's generator test? my bad"
<bigcalm> As the server powered down, I thought I'd plug that into the UPS. Appears to take 16% load while starting up. Now on a steady 14% load
<diddledan> shauno: would an mge galaxy 9000 be suitable for my flat, yathink?
<shauno> goes over much better than "ohhh THAT's what that does"
<neuro> mge, nooooooooooooo
<shauno> suitable? for heating it?
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I was thinking of keeping my pc running
<diddledan> yaknow when there's a slight blip in power
<shauno> I actually know absolutely nothing about the mge units.  they're still handled in france
<diddledan> aah
<bigcalm> Ooo, glad I got transmission-daemon set-up. directhex's torrent is still seeding. Now at 3.11 ratio
<diddledan> well the 9000 is listed as 800-900 kVA
<diddledan> it's "robust" apparently
<shauno> I haven't even got their numbering scheme figured out. eg, I can't tell the difference between the 300 and the 3500
<bigcalm> I'm going to spend some time during the xmas break next week to dismantle my desk, clean everything and sort out my power usage (I think I have 4 x 4 way adaptors in use))
<diddledan> what about a symmetra MW?
<diddledan> I can afford one of those, surely
<diddledan> it's ultra energy-efficient
<diddledan> mission critical, that's me
<shauno> lol
<shauno> I really hate those
<diddledan> :-)
<shauno> I've never yet found two sites with the same firmware.  I have no idea what on earth they do to them
<shauno> and it's not just revision numbers. you'll find entire menus missing, or not where they were last week, etc
<diddledan> hmm
<shauno> just makes you sound pretty clueless on the phone.  "go into configuration, and look for something that starts with alarm .. or notification .. no?  take a look in network .."
<diddledan> perhaps they didn't read the instructions that said "this patch must be applied after that patch" and applied it anyway thereby getting the new features of the second patch but missing out on all the stuff from the previous patch
<diddledan> so the problem is they've got an inconsistent patch history
<shauno> I have a customer in dublin that has our settings under config->notification.  and one in the netherlands that has it under config->network->help->notification
<diddledan> some patches got applied but others didn't
<diddledan> that's just backasswards
<shauno> it is, very
<shauno> it's two problems.  one is that it's all touchscreen-drive, and the touchscreen can't scroll
<shauno> the second is that almost every install ends up requiring a customized firmware.  so if they want to bring anything forwards in this, they shuffle around everything else to fit somewhere else
<diddledan> hmm
<shauno> the hardware's rock solid.  the software makes we want to hurt people
<neuro> most software is like that, to be fair
<diddledan> we're back to my funny coloured nose again, aren't we?
<daftykins> do you have a funny nose? :D
<knightwise> hey everyone
<popey> Evening
<zleap> hi
<diddledan> hi dr nick
<keir> Hello
<keir> Is anybody able to help me figure out why my Ubuntu is booting so slowly?
<AlanBell> keir: I can guess at a few things, maybe trying to mount some device that isn't there?
<AlanBell> or your computer is just slow
<AlanBell> how slow is it compared to what you would expect?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-21
<keir> AlanBell: quite a lot slower, I'm booting off an SSD
<keir> AlanBell: I did a bootchart and it seems (if I'm reading it right) to have lots of idle time
<diddledan> keir: try looking through `dmesg` output on a freshly booted instance to see if there are any timeouts or other errors during bootup
<knightwise> hey everyone
<foobarry> morning
<knightwise> hey foobarry
<knightwise> how are you
<MartijnVdS> \o
<knightwise> hey MartijnVdS  !
 * MartijnVdS h4x0red his TV
<MartijnVdS> factory service menu++
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: Nice :)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: it thinks it was bought in the UK now, and it offers me "real" FreeSat menus and everything
<knightwise> i'm currently working on installing Plex on my media server so I can stream music from anywhere
<MartijnVdS> red button service, too
<knightwise> =-) H@X0rrrrr
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: nah, it's 3 "normal" buttons to get from "off" to "service menu"
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: then a press of the "factory" button (which isn't on normal remotes, yay Logitech Harmony)
<MartijnVdS> and then you just select the country you want, and do a factory reset
<MartijnVdS> And you need a UK postcode so it knows which "local" channels to use when there are options 8-)
<knightwise> hahah :) awesome
<MartijnVdS> but those aren't hard to come by
<foobarry> lol
<dwatkins> W12 8QT
<dwatkins> or the BBC's Wood Lane site: W12 7RJ
<Laney> 0181 811 8181
<foobarry> my tablet started doing the insufficient space error installing new app , ebeneven whwen thgerebis loads of space..annoying
<dwatkins> doesn't Android have two kinds of storage?
<dwatkins> my phone would run out of internal space, so I moved apps to the SD card.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I used the one of my last hotel :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: modern android fixed that by putting everything on one partition, so moving apps won't really help
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: ah ok, I'm still on Gingerbread.
<foobarry> i have cm10
<foobarry> kind of fixed it now bymoving appas around
<foobarry> bit annoying that android ,in trying to make things esier  ,makes things worse
 * brobostigon is a cm11 man, :)
<foobarry> theres elf bowling the movie?
<foobarry> i have a touchpad, cm11 rather breaky,i heard
<brobostigon> it works very well on my nexus7.
<foobarry> i bet
<dwatkins> cm7.2
<foobarry> ubuntu noticed on bbc click today
<foobarry> in the robnot segmemt
<popey> Good morning.
<foobarry> hello
<nigelb> popey: I'll be visiting your kingdom *cough* city in Jan. :)
<popey> huzzah
<foobarry> i never met someone whjo paid for extra birds in angry birds
<popey> did you see the article about where's my water?
<popey> http://appadvice.com/appnn/2013/12/following-player-backlash-disney-removes-energy-system-in-wheres-my-water-2
<foobarry> that wasd hard to read
<popey> first article I found, probably better written ones available
 * popey updates his firefoxos phone
<foobarry> crawls into bed for power nap
<popey> heh
<popey> given this is *firefox* OS.. how did the browser become so terrible on it
<foobarry> back in the land of living
<foobarry> put in a 6 hr parenting shift this morning
<foobarry> gave milk to my son which was three days out of date.woops
<foobarry> can anyone recommend a good bluetooth keybaord foir my tablet?
<foobarry> cheaper is btter
<AlanBell> I can see you need a new one ;)
<AlanBell> what tablet? for the nexus 7 there is a really nice one that clips to it
<foobarry> hhpp touchpad, but future proofy
 * MartijnVdS has a "Minix Neo X7"
<foobarry> typing over a screen session on connectbot is faily
<MartijnVdS> I wonder how customizable it is
<foobarry> martijn, isnt that a android device?
<foobarry> the x5 sucks
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it is, but it seems like a very hacky version to me
<foobarry> think ill buy the hp one. Â£20 on ebay, good reputation
<foobarry> hmm no ctrl or esc key
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: remember we were talking about leaky car?
<foobarry> my wife said it had been streaming in through the windscreen. i think the rubber had receded right at teh top behind the windscreen seal. time for sugru action
<foobarry> but the car will not dry out for long time methinks. its soaked in there
<foobarry> http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/internet-uproar-erupts-after-pr-woman-for-media-firm-tweets
<foobarry> woops
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: leaky windscreen? that'll take a *lot* of sugru to fix
<foobarry> just a teeny bit above the top corner
<foobarry> i've fixed with a little bit of duct tape atm
<foobarry> its a little cavity behind the windscrene and where the roof t-bar ends
<DJones> foobarry: Just saw your comment about keyboards for N7 I've just got one of these for my mother-in-law as a christmas present for her N7 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00FASJ4B8/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<DJones> Seemed quite good, keyboard attaches inside the case with velco so you can use the case purely as a case, or with the keyboard, although as far as I can see it is only compatible with the 2013 N7
<foobarry> wow thats a nice price
<foobarry> i just clicked buy on a hp one on the eebay
<foobarry> thanks, if i had a n7 i would buythat
<foobarry> "synthetic leather"
<foobarry> i wonder whats not comaptible
<DJones> I'm not sure, I'd double check but I've just wrapped it this morning, I'm sure the instructions mentioned it, and I think one of the reviews comments on it somewhere
<shauno> wow, talk about awkward translations.  re the christmas naughty/nice traditions, "if you are good, jesus will bring you sweets.  if you're bad, a black man will beat you".  there really seems to be no good english translation of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chort
<shauno> I've suggested the less descriptive 'a demon'.  because there's no way someone's going to read the original the right way
<foobarry> folk christian is misleading too
<foobarry> doesn't have any judeao christian basis
<foobarry> can't believe i have to walk the dog in this weather
<foobarry> maybe she will turn around after 5 minute
<foobarry> horlicks and stollen mmm
<directhex> Ye Olde SteamOSe second version released! New bugfixes and dual boot. http://directhex.github.io/steamos-installer/
<sebsebseb> hi
<daftykins> directhex: nice work, i'm surprised they made such restrictions for it
<shauno> I was going to ask if you still need seeders, but that came down in 34 seconds
<directhex> i'll ask tollef for download stats later
<ali1234> my ratio is at 6
<ali1234> but i can't even reach the trackers
<MooDoo> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<MartijnVdS> Horizon about comet ISON on BBC Four
<MooDoo> got strictly on in our house :S
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: aww :)
<daftykins> MooDoo: rebel!
<daftykins> i couldn't handle such drivel
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: hence his irc presence, I guess? ;)
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: it doesn't protect the ears :(
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: headphones exist
<daftykins> if anyone's interested in a short read about the original Casio G-Shock watches, i was forwarded this a while ago: https://www.dropbox.com/s/eqa92jp8giql8cu/Casio.pdf
<directhex> ali1234, i'd welcome any suggestions for tcp open trackers for next time
<ali1234> if there are any they are probably blocked to me anyway
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you didn't ask your ISP for the internet *with* porn?
<ali1234> i don't pay for the server
<ali1234> it's at hetzner
<ali1234> it actually looks a lot like hetzner is banned at the tracker end
<shauno> which tracker?  mine's on hetzner too
<ali1234> tracker.publicbt.com
<ali1234> tracker.openbittorrent.com
<ali1234> mtr gets all the way to the last hop then nothing
<MartijnVdS> maybe I should put my 100/100 fibre to good use? :)
<shauno> hm, I can reach them both fine (and mtr to both is clean, with the second-last hop being rrbone.net in both cases); http://cl.ly/image/2z25373G1n07
<ali1234> well, it isn't my firewall
<ali1234> and it isn't rtorrent
<MartijnVdS> maybe it's your history with hetzner? ;)
<shauno> just adding a datapoint since mine's on hetzner too (I know some things have blocked hetzner flat-out, so it was worth checking)
<MartijnVdS> i.e. the number of complaints they've received
<ali1234> yeah efnet totally blocks hetzner
<daftykins> i can't even get the Hetzner homepage
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: "Thanks, Cameron"
<daftykins> huh?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: oh Americans like to go "Thanks, Obama" about everything he has (not) done
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: didn't Cameron push some kind of "block ALL the things" filtering?
<daftykins> oh i'm not interested in politics.
<daftykins> especially neither government having much bearing on my own
<daftykins> well i'm not in England sir
<daftykins> so their jurisdiction doth not apply
<MartijnVdS> ah yes you're on the islands
<daftykins> :)
 * MartijnVdS might pay those a visit this summer
<MartijnVdS> *will
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> let me know if you do!
<SuperMatt> oooh, my s3 has updated and now the email app doesn't make me want to kill myself \o/
<daftykins> 4.3?
<SuperMatt> yup
<daftykins> neat, i'd been waiting to see the arrival of that on my clients two SGS3s
<daftykins> just bought BioShock Infinite on the Steam sale, wow it runs well despite my 6 year old PC (with a slightly newer graphics card)
<daftykins> i can run 1920x1200 + ultra detail :O
<MartijnVdS> Yes.. I have a ticket for the Jersey Opera House on July 26 \o/
<daftykins> ooh what's on there?
<SuperMatt> keep your eyes on the roof
<daftykins> roof? :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://www.jerseyoperahouse.co.uk/show/an-evening-with-nerina-pallot/
<daftykins> ah your fave femme again
<SuperMatt> daftykins: it's a very poor taste joke
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: the roof of the Apollo in London collapsed
<daftykins> oh right
<daftykins> i had not heard of that
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: is it possible to take the car across from France to the channel islands?
<daftykins> yes sir, condorferries.co.uk sail from St. Malo
<MartijnVdS> I need to wait a few months to book then 8-)
<MartijnVdS> "Sailings available up to 24 March"
<MartijnVdS> oh 2015
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hate sites that don't sort out the www. issue
<daftykins> i told them about it once but obviously they do not care
<MartijnVdS> chrome sort-of fixed it
<MartijnVdS> only one extra click
<daftykins> :>
<MartijnVdS> OK.. I'm going to have to plan a trip through France soon then ;)
<daftykins> exciting!
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yeah :)
<daftykins> alas i am on Guernsey so it might be a fair bit more expensive for you to island hop
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I don't know if Jersey has a week's worth of sights to see though
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: hmm i don't know it that well, when we spent a weekend over there we went to see the Zoo and the underground hospital, which were neat
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I'm going to figure out my travel schedule/routes soon :)
<MartijnVdS> heh, Google Maps pegman has a christmas het
<MartijnVdS> hat
 * AlanBell wonders if Myrtti has seen the knitting google doodle
<Myrtti> AlanBell: yes
<shauno> daftykins: I always find it entertaining that nasa.gov still requires the www. prefix.  of all people.
<shauno> I remember reading a whole blog article there about why it's still the case, but I can never find it again.  'www' makes a very poor search term
<directhex> some old school sysadmins are obsessive about it
<directhex> oxford uni was like that
<directhex> i had complaints when my subdomain didn't force www
<penguin42> shauno: I would point out that nasa is concerned with a lot more than the *world* in www
<shauno> I just think it's an interesting example because we tend to see that behaviour and consider it broken
<shauno> ah, found it!  simple answer . they can't afford it?  http://blogs.nasa.gov/nasadotgov/2011/05/31/post_1306860816073/
<penguin42> I guess the DNS change is easy but then someone would have to spend sometime testing any larger change - I'm not sure if I believe there is a need to add more servers
 * AlanBell upgrades a computer to trusty
<penguin42> all good on this one
<salimfadhley> nickserv identify nougat
<penguin42> salimfadhley: Tell me you didn't just change it to caramel
<daftykins> penguin42: XD
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-22
<MartijnVdS> nice bit of history: http://spinellis.gr/blog/20131211/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<AlanBell> morning bigcalm
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Morning morning
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
 * MartijnVdS is a bit tired
<MartijnVdS> did a 15km run earlier
<brobostigon> wow.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: practicing for the 20km run in early March :)
<bigcalm> Got my whole office sorted out. 2 servers, my workstation, modem and router are now on UPS. Everything is _clean_. And I managed to free up 3 mains sockets!
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good luck, :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: More free sockets \o/
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I don't know what I'll do with those free sockets now though
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: guard them. Make sure they're only used in emergencies
<bigcalm> I'm a little confused by the spec of my UPS. It's listed as providing 2.4 minutes under half load. Yet this tells me otherwise: http://proliant/ups/
<MartijnVdS> that URL won't work for us
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I shall print labels for that reason
<bigcalm> Good point ;)
<bigcalm> http://discworld.cuth.eu/ups/
<bigcalm> There you go
<MartijnVdS> the best way to determine runtime under load is to pull the plug and get a stop watch
<MartijnVdS> battery.runtime.low	:	120
<MartijnVdS> so it'll run for 2 minutes when the battery has gone bad
 * bigcalm scratches his head
<MartijnVdS> or worst-case anyway
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> So the specs on the website/box are for that worst-case
 * bigcalm nods
<bigcalm> I'm pleased that any UPS alarms that are broadcast to the server are also broadcast on my workstation
<bigcalm> Time to throw the power to see what happens :)
<bigcalm> It's on battery! woop
<MartijnVdS> Get it to broadcast it to an android app too, using the built-in cloud messaging bits
<bigcalm> That's odd. The load has dropped to 37%
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: why? maybe your machine throttles when it detects UPS-on-battery?
<MartijnVdS> disk shutdown, etc.
<bigcalm> Maybe so!
<MartijnVdS> laptop-mode 8-)
<bigcalm> I didn't hear any change in noise though
<MartijnVdS> maybe the measurements were off somehow?
<bigcalm> Maybe
<bigcalm> Tum te tum
<bigcalm> Wish I knew how to show the battery icon on my workstation though
<bigcalm> shutdown!
<MartijnVdS> that's more than 2 minutes
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> 11:34 -> 11:41
<bigcalm> Not too bad I guess
<bigcalm> Only problem is I forgot to let the Windows server know that it's on an UPS
<bigcalm> Ubuntu server and Ubuntu workstation both shut down correctly
<bigcalm> Windows server just lost power :)
<bigcalm> I wonder if there is a Windows client for nut
<bigcalm> Ooo, there be
<popey> Afternoon.
<bigcalm> Howdy
<arc__> Hey what ubuntu/linux distro is good for a idiot friendly home server
<Azelphur> arc__: ubuntu server edition
<arc__> Ok good start but onw that has a easy to use ui
<ali1234> if you partition an SSD, does it cause extra write amplification?
<bigcalm> Afternoon moreati
<penguin42> ali1234: I think the trick is to ensure the partitions are suitably aligned
<ali1234> also, is a swap partition still necesary for suspend etc?
<moreati> bigcalm: lo
<penguin42> ali1234: If you get it wrong then you can end up with blocks on the filesystem split across multiple blocks of flash
<ali1234> how do i ensure that the partitions are correctly aligned using the ubuntu installer?
<penguin42> now that I don't know
 * bigcalm gives up, gah
<ali1234> hmmmmm... do i want a gpt or msdos partition table?
<penguin42> ali1234: Size of disk?
<ali1234> 120GB SSD
<penguin42> dos is fine, personally I'd create a /boot and a single 2nd partition which I'd then lvm
<ali1234> why separate boot?
<penguin42> hmm I think grub might actually be able to live on an lvm partition these days - but not sure
<ali1234> and why lvm for that matter?
<ali1234> this is a brand new haswell UEFI system...
<ali1234> i would like to avoid any legacy nonsense, if at all possible
<ali1234> (msdos partition table that is)
<penguin42> oh if it's UEFI I think that might be best with GPT but I think it requires a FAT partition to hold the UEFI magic bits but can't rmember the details
<ali1234> hmm this looks hard
<ali1234> i might just do a legacy install then :/
<ali1234> i suppose i could just let the installer do whatever it wants and see what happens
<ali1234> i'm gonna try it
<ali1234> i can always start over
<daftykins> ali1234: haswell setup, is that an early christmas present to yourself? :)
<ali1234> no it's for my dad
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> is it on the way with a legacy install now?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> i just told the installer to do everything automatic
<ali1234> then i'll see what happened
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> yeah i can't say i have a clue how to check for partition alignment
<daftykins> that's even true of my greater knowledge in Windows land - where all i know is you need SP1'd media of 7 to partition SSDs properly to the 4K alignment
<daftykins> well, and advanced format HDDs
<daftykins> but no idea how to graphically confirm it
<ali1234> well it boots very very fast so that's good
<ali1234> like 4 seconds
<ali1234> it made a gpt
<daftykins> yeah must've booted in EFI mode then
<ali1234> i went a bit ott with this system... it has SSD, 8GB and i5 CPU
<ali1234> my dad only checks his email and internet banking so he's getting ubuntu. don't need windows for that
<ali1234> it's hilariously fast though. faster than my computer
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> if i were you i'd have planned it as an upgrade :)
<daftykins> which i5 is it?
<ali1234> 3.1GHz
<ali1234> i think it's 4440 or something
<daftykins> ah yeah, Â£140 odd
<ali1234> yeah, i5-4440
<ali1234> how do i get rid of just the commercial results in the dash, just for one user?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: in "Settings" there's "Privacy"
<ali1234> that disables all online results completely
<MartijnVdS> ... yes?
<MartijnVdS> isn't that what the commercial ones are?
<ali1234> i only want to hide the amazon and U1 music ones
<MartijnVdS> only by removing the packages I guess.. so system-wide
<AlanBell> open the dash, go to the apps page at the bottom
<ali1234> i want weather, wikipedia etc to still work
 * MartijnVdS never uses the dash
<MartijnVdS> just Alt+F2
<ali1234> AlanBell: then what?
<AlanBell> scroll down, you can click any of the dash plugins and then disable them
<ali1234> which one is the apps page?
<ali1234> the "A" thing?
<AlanBell> yeah, however I can't see the shopping one :/
<ali1234> how do you go back in the dash?
<AlanBell> ah, because I had all online ones turned off
<AlanBell> there is an amazon option, which you can individually disable
<ali1234> yeah i found it
<ali1234> thanks
<AlanBell> this is in saucy and above
<ali1234> there's an awful lot of these and there is no way to quickly disable a whole load of them
<ali1234> quite annoying really
<ali1234> i guess i'll just disable all online stuff
<ali1234> and so much for this being a smart search
<ali1234> no matter what i type, at least 10 different people have made a song named that, apparently
<MartijnVdS> asdsdfsdfa?
<ali1234> yes, exactly 10 hits for that
<daftykins> XD
<ali1234> the trouble with this is, all the results are completely random and not what i want
<daftykins> what are you after?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: "No commercial search providers for only one user, but not disabling other online sources like wikipedia"
<MartijnVdS> http://azac.pl/cobol-on-wheelchair/
<ali1234> these fans i bought have a "low speed adapter" which is just an inline resistor
<ali1234> the fans are rated 3A, but this appears to be a 2W resistor. i don't see how that is even remotely safe...
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-15
<webpigeon_web> PLAIN or  ECDSA-NIST256P-CHALLENGE
<diddledan> the original author of blowfish says to use twofish in preference
<diddledan> mind you that's from 2007
<diddledan> there's also threefish
<daftykins> webpigeon_web: yeah that latter one looks like hell for irssi though
<diddledan> PLAIN ftw
<diddledan> PLAIN over a non-ssl connection is unbeatable
<webpigeon_web> erm.... okkaay
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> diddledan: you'll confuse all the active and awake newbies...
<diddledan> !danger
<lubotu3> DO NOT RUN THAT COMMAND! That particular command is DANGEROUS and shouldn't be uttered here. REST OF YOU: DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! Do not use the command or utter it here thank you!
<diddledan> :-p
<ali1234> i think i need to make template classes to do what i want to do ...
<ali1234> g++ errors when you use smart pointers are really unhelpful
<mapp> hi all
<daftykins> mornin'
 * zmoylan-pi has heard critturs outside but doesn't think they were of the daytime variety
<mapp> he
<mapp> ]h
<mapp> hi daftykins / zmoylan-pi  :)
<mapp> watching new homeland ep..sundays are great for tv..brooklyn nine nine and homeland
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> i'm still debating dropping Â£75 on the bluray set of The Sopranos
<zmoylan-pi> you could drop hints for christmas or add it to a wishlist site
<mapp> sopranos was cool
<mapp> u seen it before?
<daftykins> yeah :)
<daftykins> watched it as a kid on TV late night
<mapp> ah
<mapp> i rarely rewatch stuff heh
<daftykins> for such a masterpiece, HD and good sound is a worthy one :)
<mapp> homeland was good
<mapp> sleep time for me:)
<daftykins> g'night o/
<daftykins> i best be off too
<daftykins> where's my late night posse!?
<mapp> zn======
<mapp> zmoylan pinged out
<mapp> :)
<mapp> ah no hes here
<mapp> must be asleep alreadt
<MooDoo> morning all
<foobarry> o/
<DJones> foobarry: Did you end up enjoying death becomes her :)
<foobarry> then she started watching 'what women wnat;
<foobarry> and i ended up watching too :(
<foobarry> and i ended up watching too :(ns
<foobarry> then at bedtime i had to record the last 10 mi
<foobarry> ugh baby typing too
<DJones> Hah, my wife is driving me mad watching christmas movies and christmas concerts, I'm sure they all have the same plot, music and characters
<foobarry> the worst are romcoms
<foobarry> more formulaic than a maths exam
<DJones> foobarry: Yup, they're the one she watches, either that or person A has a hard life & the movie is about how it changes, normally a kid with dodgy parents sent to live with grandparents/aunt/foster & turns into a nightmare child before coming good and reconciling with previous dodgy parents now made good
<DJones> Oh, thats the plot of Annie
<foobarry> girl likes guy, guy gets with wrong girl, girl decides to travel the worl instead/marry wrong man, man drives to airport/wedding at last minute to get with right girl. the end
<DJones> foobarry: Bridget Jones
<bashrc> a concise review
<foobarry> also pride and prejudice, 50 last dates, 50 bridesmaids, 50 wrong dresses
<foobarry> the wedding planner
<foobarry> the wedding singer
<foobarry> my laptop can only handle 5 chrome tabs before 1 of them dies
<foobarry> need to move to the newer laptop soon
<foobarry> no time to transfer data
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> my son woke me at 5.40am to tell me his fingernails were too long. (they weren't)
<foobarry> needless to say i didn't sleep after
<Laney> because you were wracked with worry about the length of the nails?
<foobarry> :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Cat Herders Day! :-D
<nigelb> So, project manager's day?
<JamesTait> nigelb, or parents' day. ;)
<JamesTait> Or crazy cat people's day!
 * JamesTait qualifies regardless.
<nigelb> :)
<NET||abuse> I went completely mad over the weekend and ordered a odroid-c1 from lilliputdirect.com
<NET||abuse> diplo: so you wanted me to let you know if I got one.. well, expecting it to arrive this week.
<diplo> Ah top man, how much did you pay ? if you don't mind me asking. And let me know your thoughts once you have it in hand
<NET||abuse> Â£35
<NET||abuse> bit more than the $34 it's supposed to be, but you just can't get them anywhere else
<diplo> That inclusive of carriage ?
<NET||abuse> yep
<NET||abuse> i think it was
<NET||abuse> hmm, must check teh receipt
<NET||abuse> nope, appologies $40 inclusive of postage
<NET||abuse> Â£40  wrong currency key
<Laney> mister EPC is here with his clipboard
<Laney> want to get me some of https://energy-saving-home-improvement-fund.service.gov.uk/
<foobarry> my rasta electrician is here
<davmor2> JamesTait: Community, community, community is the cat herders battle cry right?
<JamesTait> davmor2, something like that, I think. :)
<diplo> Thanks NET||abuse, may make an order after Xmas
<NET||abuse> yeh, just hoping they manage to ship mine by christmas
<NET||abuse> we'll see
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> \o/ holiday
<popey> no more work till 2015
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> And yet you're on IRC
<popey> sending my "I'm off on holiday" mail â»
<popey> and doing /nick popey|vacation , on work irc â»
<bigcalm> :P
<foobarry> and reporting bugs..
<davmor2> popey: I don't believe you :P
<davmor2> popey: I think you'll be sat there tinkering on an Ubuntu Laptop and with an Ubuntu phone for the whole holiday filing bugs against all the core apps and adding patches cause you're not in meetings all day :P
<davmor2> popey: When you making a minecraft app for the phone anyway?
<popey> haha, maybe
<popey> but today I'm going afk with my daughter... ttfn
<foobarry> anyone had experience of selling on gumtree?
<Seeker`_> popey: damn you :P
<MooDoo> hello all
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning me owld mucka
<MooDoo> davmor2: ayup :D
<diddledan> morning
<davmor2> man this channel goes quiet without a popey to pick on ;)
<zmoylan-pi> a fake popey account...
<davmor2> haha
<MooDoo> it's christmas, everyone is working hard to get rid of their workload so they can party on!
<zmoylan-pi> end of the year jobs that get piled on don't help
<BigRedS> well, the other people you work with who are also trying to get shot of stuff before Christmas
<davmor2> MooDoo: no I don't believe that for one second, we just don't stop being busy :)
<diddledan> oh dear. sydney has a terrorist thing going on
<MooDoo> diddledan: they have for a while now....
<diddledan> MooDoo, yeah, I just woke up :-p
<zmoylan-pi> over 12 hours now
<MooDoo> diddledan: you on lates or something?
<diddledan> MooDoo, nah, just weird sleep pattern :-p
<MooDoo> ouch
<plopey> Not sure I can emulate popey
<zmoylan-pi> just use his tweets for 2-3 weeks back as comments :-)
<shauno> surely it can't be too difficult to get an elvis impersonator in here?
<zmoylan-pi> uh huh huh
<plopey> I've connected a #RaspberryPi to a container delivery truck. Cool.
<shauno> I think they've got you beat; sending 2 to the ISS; http://www.raspberrypi.org/astro-pi/
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if anyone ever did connect a zx80 to a nuclear power station... :-)
<davmor2> plopey: so now that Linux Outlaws is no more what happens to oggcamp the world needs to know
<plopey> #BlackFriday chaos in Britain as Tesco runs out of good sandwiches by 13:02
<marxjohnson> Oggcamp's existance isn't linked to the continuation of a podcast, only to the willingness of people to organise it
<zmoylan-pi> not over yet, isn't last show recorded tonight?
<marxjohnson> and if you're one of those people, pitch in! http://saloon.sixgun.org/c/oggcamp
<davmor2> marxjohnson: it was meant as a joke for plopey the fake popey to give him something funny to say ;)  If I thought for one second that the camp depended on a podcast rather than people I would of been really depressed :)
<marxjohnson> This a the problem with having oggcamp highlights sent to my phone - lack of context :)
<davmor2> marxjohnson: hahaha
<davmor2> marxjohnson: I think the big advantage of the podcast is that it spreads the news to a bigger audience that would be hit by an email once in a while
<marxjohnson> davmor2: True, fortunatley we've got lots of podcasters in the OggCamp community to help us spread the word
<foobarry> agh forgot to renew my library book :(
<zmoylan-pi> how much are libray fines these days?
<foobarry> 8p per day per book
<foobarry> only 3 week loan rather than 4 week in the old days
<zmoylan-pi> extortion!
<zmoylan-pi> :-)
<diddledan> I think it should be extrusion, rather than extortion - extrusion sounds more funner
<zmoylan-pi> did they 3d print the book?
 * diddledan hides from shauno 
<diddledan> grr.. chillywilly
<zmoylan-pi> the ice pop
<bigcalm> Is there a way I could put a button on my desktop (or launcher) that would switch audio output between 2 devices? Needed as it would be quicker/simpler than going though various things so that I can take a skype call through my headset when I've just been listening to music on my soundbar
<ej> hello.
<ej> i have question.
 * bigcalm waits for the question
<diddledan> bigcalm, he gone
<diddledan> [15:01:56] * ej has quit (Quit: Leaving)
<bigcalm> diddledan: yes, hence my waiting
<diddledan> oic. irony
<shauno> diddledan: woosh.
 * popey returns
<diddledan> indiegogo has introduced begging as a service
<diddledan> https://life.indiegogo.com/
<bashrc> nice
<bashrc> BaaS
 * plopey runs for the hills
<shauno> subtle as a sledgehammer
<davmor2> popey: hey dude good day?
<popey> very
<bigcalm> Kids on holiday already?
 * popey registers plopey.com
<popey> yeah, broke up on thursday
 * bigcalm waits for xmas eve to get here for holiday to happen
<diddledan> now is plopey pronounced like plop or pope?
<davmor2> popey: is phopey or popey-phoney gone aswel?
<davmor2> diddledan: he was pretending to be popey so pl-opey
<popey> You guys.
<davmor2> popey: we missed you channel was quiet :)
 * diddledan turns popey's first P 180 degrees
<popey> was looking at car stereos today
<popey> need to get one for wifey for xmas
 * awilkins turns the d's in diddledan 180 degrees
<diddledan> lol
<awilkins> Well, the first one and the last one
<popey> but her car has one of these huge bays, so bought a thing that goes in the slot to make it a normal size slot
<popey> now need to figure out what stereo to get
<popey> one that does bluetooth & usb would be good
<popey> they all seem to do that
<popey> but most look like a gaudy mess
<diddledan> must. resist. comment. about. size. of. slot.
<popey> yeah yeah
<davmor2> popey: take a trip to Halfords don't buy it from there but it will give you a good idea of how it plays and features
<diddledan> usb would be nifty. unless she has an ipwn
<popey> yeah, thats where i was
<popey> they're all much the same
<popey> also would be useful if it could integrate with the steering wheel controls
<popey> bet they don't
<davmor2> popey: did you expect them to be vastly different?
<popey> i expected them not to all look identical
<davmor2> popey: buy one from the manufacturer
<popey> manufacturer of?
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/T1-Audio-T1-24VX02-PACK-Vauxhall/dp/B004S6Q5LK
<popey> hmmm
<popey> could be an option
<davmor2> popey: the car
<popey> nah, not giving them any of my money
<diddledan> they all have the boy racer's boom box styling
<popey> never buying a vauxhall ever again
<popey> yeah, they do
<popey> and tiny buttons
<popey> </dad>
<DJones> popey: I think a lot of aftermarket car radio/cd's just need an adapter to use the steering wheel controls
<popey> might pop to a proper car stereo shop
<popey> like Paula Marks if it still exists
<DJones> popey: http://cartech.about.com/od/Car-Audio/a/Steering-Wheel-Audio-Control-Adapters.htm
<foobarry> why do kids love frozen ? there are far better films
<popey> yeah, my kids love it too
<diddledan> foobarry, because let it go
<popey> sam knows all the songs
<foobarry> let it go sounds likea eurovision entry
<foobarry> *exactly* like one
<diddledan> I like adele dazeem tho
<popey> DJones: thanks, standards! Multiple standards!
<foobarry> osn is asking to watch michael buble now
<davmor2> foobarry: because they are kids and love filme like that till the next one comes along it was the same with the lion King
<DJones> Heh, I looked at changing my stereo in my last car, but gave up because it was going to be a pain in the arse getting the right adapter for a citroen
<popey> yeah, this is why I went to halfords, they fit it for you
<popey> I haven't done this since 1994 â»
<foobarry> i know as much about cars as other people know about computers
<popey> (and don't want to)
<foobarry> the analogy is installing an OS
<diddledan> foobarry, do it right the first time and you'll never have to do it again?
<foobarry> or choosing a printer
<diddledan> foobarry, or is it a case of "just shove linux on it"
<diddledan> I remember my first forey into linux before I understood what a kernel was. I decided to recompile the kernel to get sound. I didn't get sound.
<diddledan> this was suse in circa 1998
 * awilkins recompiled the kernel to get TV card support
<diddledan> I think the big thing that I missed when I was doing it, was to actually put the compiled kernel someplace useful and actually boot it
<DJones> diddledan: I had similar experiences on slackware in about 1995, after making a mess of the kernel so many times, I installed Ubuntu 6.06
<diddledan> but mrproper sounded awesome
<foobarry> i'm just taking the engine out to get the stereo working darling
<diddledan> foobarry, don't forget to decoke the pistons
<diddledan> foobarry, it might be worth a rebore too
 * diddledan pretends he's a blokey bloke bloke and knows what he's talking about
<shauno> I used to write my kernel out to floppies.  made foul-ups so much easier to deal with :)
<diddledan> my next ransom note is going to look the business: http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/BlackCasper
<foobarry> heh
<DJones> Thats the font isohunt should have used for their announcement of oldpiratebay.org rather than the one they used
<diddledan> hehe
<shauno> I wonder if you can still do that.  the default root device used to be whatever was in use when it was built, so if you built your own it'd boot with no args
<daftykins> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ifupdown/+bug/1301015
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1301015 in ifupdown (Ubuntu) "Networking does not restart" [High,Confirmed]
<daftykins> ^horrifying
<popey> is it?
<daftykins> 'tis a bit
<popey> oh.
<diddledan> daftykins, yeah, that's irked me for some time now
<diddledan> daftykins, I'm in the same boat as a lot of those commenters in managing remote systems
<daftykins> is your experience the same, that sudo service networking restart fails too?
<diddledan> yup, it just flat out breaks
<daftykins> so there's basically nothing good beyond full reboot otherwise :(
<daftykins> well, assuming ifup+down fails
<diddledan> ifdown && ifup <-- oh ffs, I forgot to background it like stephane said in a random comment half way down the random bug report that makes it "official". now I have to go catch the train to reading and get into the datacentre to hit the reboob button!?!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> diddledan: family.
<diddledan> apparently you need gymnastic fingers to restart networking now
<diddledan> (ifdown -a --exclude=lo && ifup -a --exclude=lo) &
<diddledan> htf am I supposed to remember that?!
<diddledan> f == fred. for fred's sake and how the fred.
<diddledan> or maybe "how's that, fred?"
<daftykins> nice save :)
<daftykins> made me laugh that
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-16
<diddledan> I think it's time for , your sword is very pointy..
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> that failed
<diddledan> I think it's time for xmas carols: o holy knight, your sword is very pointy..
<diddledan> silly windowfreeze as I'm typing!?! grr.
<diddledan> who is carol, anyway?
<daftykins> you mean, who are they?
<daftykins> the carols @_@
<diddledan> oh, it's plural? I thought it was possessive
<daftykins> well, they move in packs y'see
<diddledan> like cigarettes? do they prey on the weak in the same way?
<shauno> evening
<daftykins> shh mapps might be insulted
<daftykins> hey shauno how do?
<shauno> all do is at 90% normal :)
<diddledan> I don't think we want to know about shauno's doings!
<shauno> ;)  just got back from the cinema.  silly me didn't see how long the film was beforehand :/
<diddledan> oopsiedoodle
<daftykins> shauno: ooh that's a schoolboy error
<shauno> seems the latest anti-piracy measure is to make films last longer than your phone's battery :)
 * zmoylan-pi clutches nokia feature phone which outlasts seven samurai and blade runner every version released back to back :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, yeah but you can't pirate a movie with that - which was shauno 's point methinks
<zmoylan-pi> yeah you can, i remember the first time i saw a nokia n95 with the 4gb hard drive.  the guy used wifi to download bittorrents when he was on night shift from nearby wifi ap while phone was in his pocket at work
<zmoylan-pi> the rez of any video you shoot would be terrible but i have yet to see a hand cammed movie that wasn't anyway
<diddledan> grr, I need moar rams
<diddledan> 8GB just doesn't cut it these days
<diddledan> one vm and I'm out
<shauno> diddledan: http://www.downloadmoreram.com
 * zmoylan-pi is still using 1gb netbook as main system with rasppi 512mb for extra tasks
<zmoylan-pi> though i am thinking of replacing it with a chromebook with 2gb and beefier processor
<diddledan> I need multiple vms tho
<diddledan> because moar operating systems is obviously better
<daftykins> ^
<zmoylan-pi> i could have a dozen rasp pis each with a different os on it :-)
 * diddledan clicks to download 4GB
<zmoylan-pi> and that would /only/ be 6gb :-)
<diddledan> if MB is mega bytes and mb is milibits. and GB is gigabytes, then gb = girly bits?
<daftykins> thing is 2 x 0 = 0
<daftykins> so moar pis != better :(
 * zmoylan-pi tells my pi to ignore the rude man :-P
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> tasty pi
<daftykins> i nearly bought a pair o' scotch eggs the other day, maybe i should have
<diddledan> two balls coated in breadcrumbs?
<daftykins> eggy balls!
<diddledan> with the elf-fart inside
<daftykins> which oddly enough is very similar to the name of my old head teacher
<daftykins> wat
<daftykins> ok i'm going to sleep
<zmoylan-pi> snow plows.... pfft.... http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/888054-7.jpg?w=600&h=708
<daftykins> if anyone dreams of scotch eggs, blame me
<diddledan> daftykins, elf farts!
<daftykins> what do you meeeeeeeean sir?
<diddledan> stingy eggy elf-fart smell
<diddledan> stinky*
<daftykins> diddledan: are you headed anywhere near a marks and spencers with a food hall, tomorrow?
<daftykins> or rather, today
<diddledan> nope
<daftykins> ok well fix that and buy some scotch eggs
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> then we shall compare notes tonight!
<daftykins> gonna have to get some supplies in soon, to survive the festive period
<daftykins> nn all \o
<mapp> hi all
<mapp> night owls
<mapp> hmm no daftykins  and no zmoylan-pi
<mapp> odd
<zmoylan-pi> just attention is elsewhere
<MartijnVdS> popey: https://twitter.com/ProfMike_M/status/544777007754907648
<davmor2> Morning Geeks  how's life treating you all
<MartijnVdS> Sysadmin week at work
<MartijnVdS> not fun :)
<bashrc> fun
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I don't believe you if you hated the job you would do something different :P
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: well normally I code
<MartijnVdS> but every 2 months I get to do a sprint of sysadmining instead
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: nice
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Chocolate Covered Anything Day! :-D
<bashrc> chocolate covered anything?
<foobarry> chocolate covered chocolate
<foobarry> minstrels...mmm
<foobarry> sysadmining is good for you
<awilkins> http://a.tgcdn.net/images/products/additional/large/177a_chocolate_covered_edible_bugs_gift_pack_scorpions.jpg
<awilkins> http://www.snomedbrowser.com/Codes/Details/229880004
<awilkins> Hey, MartijnVdS, could you reset my password?
 * awilkins scuttles away
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Stop making me hungry
<awilkins> http://www.snomedbrowser.com/Codes/Details/227028002 << It's what's for Christmas dinner this year
 * davmor2 covers JamesTait in chocolate and hands him to his wife, she looks so happy :)
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: You plan to have "substance" for your Saturnalia feast?
<JamesTait> davmor2, it'd better be white chocolate then, or at least definitely not dark chocolate.
 * TwistedLucidity is easily confused
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, the (substance) part is just how SNOMED CT deals with things
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: I figured, but it kinda puts one off their dinner? "What are you having?" "Roast substance with boiled substance and mashes substance as a side. For afters we're having frozen substance"
<foobarry> anyone had experience using xrdp in production environment? particularly using session resume
<diddledan> MartijnVdS, the internet is broken
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: have you tried turning it off and on again?
 * foobarry shoots MartijnVdS 
 * MartijnVdS slows down time, sidesteps the bullet
<diddledan> MartijnVdS, google told me to delete c:\windows\system32 but now the internet still doesn't work
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: did you do it while waving a chicken over a pentagram?
<diddledan> MartijnVdS, should I format my processor?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yes
<diddledan> MartijnVdS, will that fix the internet?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: definitely.
<diddledan> coolbeans
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: make sure you first purge it by heating it to boiling
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: some boiling water from a kettle should do fine.
<DJones> The internet is offline since piratebay's server were taken down
<davmor2> diddledan: you almost sound like my mom then
<DJones> If torrent sites, facebook and snapchat were all offline at the sametime, most under 16's wouldn't know what else to do on the internet
<diddledan> davmor2, does she search for google in google to get to google so she can search?
<davmor2> DJones: yes they would that's what minecraft is for :P
<DJones> davmor2: True, there is that
<davmor2> diddledan: no she isn't that bad, but she'll ring up and say "The thingy I open to listen to radio 4 doesn't work, What have I done?"
<diddledan> oh at least she knows it's her fault :-)
<diddledan> :-p
<MartijnVdS> woo. I may be buying this: http://www.funda.nl/koop/alphen-aan-den-rijn/parkeergelegenheid-48125778-saffierstraat-32-a/
<davmor2> diddledan: She always blames herself even when it isn't,  I had to do a fresh install of window7 for her.  2 days later nothing opened. She knows a computer tech guy locally so gave it to him, he rang me asked me what I had done so I told him, He said I've no idea what is happening then I can't install anything, remove anything or modify anything
<MartijnVdS> you mean.. the local tech was clueless?\
<diddledan> he probably wasn't using an admin account
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: no, he had no idea about how it had gotten so broken so quickly
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: windows asks for an admin user's password (like Ubuntu does; UAC is just like sudo somehow :P) in that case
<diddledan> MartijnVdS, sweet, a garagebox onder appartementencomplex!!
<davmor2> MartijnVdS, diddledan: Yeah I think he is setting it so she can't install stuff :)  that'll make her happy :D
<diddledan> not only that, but met kanteldeur en loopdeur!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yes! I already live in that building so.. :)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yes. I think you can translate those :P
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: (deur = door; loop = to walk; kantel = swivel/rotate)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS, there's a link on the top-right to go to the english version - much more helpful. now it reads "garagebox onder appartementcomplex met kanteldeur en loopdeur"
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: oh wow. That's a good translation!
<MartijnVdS> ...
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: google translate knows what to do with it though
<MartijnVdS> almost
<foobarry> didn't know you could tag people in photos on twitter
<foobarry> still not really sure how it works
<foobarry> entered a competition where you were supposed to tag the company in a photo. i was literally the only person on the internet who did it properly. but i bet they will change the rules to include others...
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daftykins> diddledan: it is scotch egg day!
<davmor2> daftykins: no cover stuff in chocolate day
<daftykins> :O
<davmor2> daftykins: <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Chocolate Covered Anything Day! :-D
<daftykins> hmmm
<davmor2> daftykins: and JamesTait is the official ircbot for what day it is :)
<daftykins> er what, i thought it was just a guy with an unhealthy fixation on what day it is
<MartijnVdS> IRC bot appreciation day?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I always appreciate JamesTait 's dedication to his morning greeting and the fact that it always puts a little smile on my face, especially the days that sound a little odd :)
<MartijnVdS> :)
<shauno> these may not be mutually exclusive ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: by the way I'll be checking my logs for your greetings each morning to see what day it is during the holidays so don't think you get off that lightly ;)
<shauno> if you need to be told it's christmas, you're as bad as I am :)
<davmor2> shauno: it's Christmas?  Man I think your calendar is little out
<davmor2> shauno: that's days away yet
<shauno> right, your statement seemed to imply the future tense
<davmor2> shauno: :)
<shauno> I got boring.  I used to look forward to christmas.  now I'm looking forward to it being over
<davmor2> shauno: do you get excited at snow if you say no understand we have to lock you away in a padded room, it'll be for your own good
<shauno> ah I have extenuating circumstances there.  5 years in michigan beat that one out of me
<shauno> where it'd start snowing in november and stop in april-may
 * davmor2 starts dialing the number hello is that the men in white coats
<shauno> surely the sanitarium is equal opportunities by now?
<davmor2> shauno: not for snow haters ;)
<shauno> I should send you to shovel my mother's driveway for 5 months
<shauno> imagine if siberian work camps had walmarts.  you'd be pretty close.
<davmor2> shauno: most nurses are still female fullstop to be honest.  However most porters are male and they tend to do the fetching and carrying :)
<davmor2> shauno: I'd of built a flame thrower end of problem ;)
<shauno> now you have an ice-slick :)
<shauno> (although I have seen a home-made zambonii that came terrifyingly close to this description)
<davmor2> shauno: hahaha
<awilkins> Best way to install Skype for 14.10?
<bashrc_> Aren't there other webRTP options now
<awilkins> WebRTC is all very well
<awilkins> But you can't replace network effects
<bashrc_> you can just say "use this web site" though
<awilkins> Yes, but if someone uses Skype as their main IM, that's the easiest way to say it to them..
<awilkins> Tried http://appear.in
<awilkins> Works very nicely on Chrom(e|ium) as long as you have a webcam
<awilkins> If you don't, it's broken
<awilkins> The screensharing only works in Chrom(e|ium) - I don't care about the video support
<awilkins> THere's Firefox Hello
<awilkins> Which is apparently only available at random
<awilkins> Because it's on my desktop upstairs but not here on my laptop (both running Firefox 34.0)
<awilkins> This is by design, so as not to overwhelm their server
<awilkins> So, a chat platform which by definition, is not universally available
<awilkins> Our company owns Zoom.us
<awilkins> So we kinda have to use that
<awilkins> WHich is a shame because it only works on Windows and Mac
<bashrc> well if you own it you can always port it
<awilkins> You assume that things in corporateland make sense
<daftykins> XD
<awilkins> I have no idea why anyone would be doing anything that didn't support WebRTC now TBH
<awilkins> EVen GotoMeeting wised up
<awilkins> WebEx was the only thing that worked cross platform that I used
<awilkins> And even then you had to fart around making a special 32-bit environment for it if you wanted it to work properly on Linux
<awilkins> And by "properly" I'm not sure the VoIP worked but we used POTS anyway for that part
<bashrc> what about jitsi videobridge?
<bashrc> looks like Google hangouts
<awilkins> Don't care about video, just screensharing
<awilkins> TBH would prefer something like Wave
<bashrc> :)
<awilkins> Screen sharing, mutual document editing, and voice
<awilkins> That's what you need
<awilkins> Screw video
<awilkins> Video is for suits
<zmoylan-pi> we could repurpose all those abandoned fax machines... :-P
<awilkins> And grandma
<awilkins> GotoMeeting didn't work on Linux, WebEx just about did
<awilkins> appear.in works, but it's broken if you don't have a webcam it seems
<awilkins> Or it works on 14.10 but not 14.04
<zmoylan-pi> they've been inventing video phones since at least the 1930s and it still hasn't caught on
<awilkins> Facetime
<awilkins> People love that
<awilkins> Because it just works
<awilkins> And iOS has enough network effect to mean it works for enough of the people enough of the time
<zmoylan-pi> from one apple narciscist to another apple narciscist, of course THEY'D love it :-)
<awilkins> WebRTC has the potential to be the Facetime for Everyone, I agree
<zmoylan-pi> at least till one company gets dominance and then spins off a non standard version
<awilkins> Someone hello me : https://hello.firefox.com/c/TIvGHgstTpU
<marxjohnson> popey: (or anyone else), any idea what's up with the webserver? I tried restarting lighttpd but no joy
<PaulW2U> marxjohnson: It's been down for nearly two days now I think
<marxjohnson> PaulW2U: curses.
<marxjohnson> ah, it's back!
<ali1234> "the" webserver?
<marxjohnson> ali1234: the ubuntu-uk.org server
<PaulW2U> I can ping the server but my browser won't fetch any web pages ;(
<marxjohnson> hmm yeah stopped working again for me too
<diddledan> marxjohnson, port 80 connects but it seems to not return any response once a request is passed
<diddledan> possibly a php issue?
<marxjohnson> diddledan: looks like it, just reqested a static file and it loaded instantly
<diddledan> marxjohnson, is it running php-fpm? if so try restarting that
<diddledan> it does actually load if you give it long enough - is the system maybe io-bound via swap or some other mechanism?
<ali1234> check all the things
 * diddledan checks ali1234 's oil
<ali1234> i just tried out jitsi and firefox hello
<ali1234> jitsi is now better than google hangouts
<ali1234> screensharing actually works, and works well
<ali1234> firefox hello is like something that was made by two interns in a day
<ali1234> it's slow and crashes constantly
<ali1234> and lacks screensharing and conference calling
<ali1234> also it doesn't actually work properly in firefox, but works okay in chrome
<diddledan> lol
<ali1234> basically don't touch hello, use jitsi even if you don't normally use chrome
<ali1234> and complain to every firefox developer you know about their lack of multistream support
<ali1234> i wonder if you could make a jitsi webapp for ubuntu
<popey> marxjohnson: it's php5-cgi
<popey> marxjohnson: i usually end up killing all the php5 processes, mysql and lighttpd
<ali1234> shouldn't you... figure out why it is doing what it is doing?
<popey> sure, when someone has the time to do that
<popey> php â¹
<ali1234> why are you using CGI instead of WSGI?
<popey> pass
<ali1234> oh wait you are using lighttpd?
<ali1234> that's probably why then
<popey> i just shutdown lighttpd and started apache
<popey> site is up again
<ali1234> prefork or worker?
<popey> prefork
<ali1234> what is your MaxRequestsPerChild?
<popey> 2000!
<ali1234> that should be okay
<popey> bah, apache now OOMed the ubuntu-uk server
<daftykins> :o
<ali1234> >_<
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9543665/
<daftykins> that looks like a lorra workers?
<diddledan> so gmail. what do folk like in terms of accessing it - do you only use the web interface? or thunderbirds are go? or ricer it up with mutt?
<popey> i only use the web really
<daftykins> on my PCs i use the web in chrome pretty much dedicated
<daftykins> then browse solely with firefox so that stuff i do doesn't get attached to my account (via sites being logged in etc)
<daftykins> never seen any downtime since the invite-only days :)
<diddledan> yeah chrome does thend to my goto for most things these days
<daftykins> well i just run it in there so that it's not-FF
<daftykins> i don't personally get why everyone is flocking to chrome as if it's the second coming
<diddledan> I just get fed up with chrome eating half my system rams
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> diddledan: scotch eggs were out of stock =|
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> disaster
<daftykins> i know, i had to get some jam doughnuts instead
<popey> almost time for creme eggs
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> popey, now you're talking!
<diddledan> <3 creme eggies
<diddledan> they don't last long when I'm around tho
<diddledan> a box of 6 disappears in an afternoon
<daftykins> same here
<daftykins> i think smaller boxes work out cheaper oddly, a supermarket lad hinted to me once
<shauno> random tip - never buy creme eggs in the states.  they'll break your heart.
<daftykins> ruined, is it?
<shauno> as far as I'm concerned, "made under licence" may as well be the Mark of the Beast.
<shauno> I must have looked like a proper nutter examining the foils to find the ones made by Cadbury Canada instead of Hersheys
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> y'seen that film where they get some guy go in trying to find the perfect egg packet 0o
<daftykins> hmm i can't remember which that is now
<diddledan> shauno, hersheys make chocolate in a manner that causes the end product to contain lactic acid - hence why it tastes of spew
<diddledan> shauno, I feel your pain
<daftykins> hmm, a friend claimed they used sour milk
<daftykins> *use
<ali1234> popey: yeah, too many forks
<shauno> I always figured they used parafin instead of milk.  completely improbable, yet explains everything
<ali1234> popey: reduce/tweak MaxClients and the other parameters http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mpm_common.html
<popey> yeah, fiddling now and testing, thanks.
<popey> monitoring the memory usage...
<diddledan> daftykins, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hershey_bar suggests similarly
<ali1234> popey: check out mod_status, it tells you exactly what each worker is doing
<ali1234> takes a little bit of set up though and it exposes the status via http like this: http://www.apache.org/server-status
<popey> will do if my current fiddles don't yield results
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Charging-Adapter-VL812-B2-Chipset-Firmware-Black/dp/B005NGQWL2
 * popey adds to wishlist
<daftykins> does this seem normal memory usage for a VM that does nothing beyond run irssi in screen? :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/9544104/
<daftykins> not long left now and i'll have to retire those 10.04 VMs
<popey> [136125681.363245] Out of memory: Kill process 29058 (apache2) score 49 or sacrifice child
<popey> [136125681.363261] Killed process 29058 (apache2) total-vm:78416kB, anon-rss:11408kB, file-rss:0kB
<popey> bah
<shauno> daftykins: is that ubuntu?
<daftykins> shauno: yep 10.04.4 server :>
<shauno> mine is http://paste.ubuntu.com/9544178/
<daftykins> what do you run on there?
<shauno> that's it.  screen+irssi
<daftykins> that's a little bit concerning
<shauno> why?
<daftykins> i did notice i still had fail2ban installed, despite not being externally SSH'able, so i just purged that
<daftykins> well, why would mine be so chubby and yours not? :D
<daftykins> heh just read the second part of your paste now *facepalm*
<diddledan> daftykins, chocolate
<daftykins> huh?
<ali1234> aftre buffers and cache you are using like 20mb
<ali1234> 8mb of that is irssi
<ali1234> that's probably just the scrollback buffer
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9544205/
<daftykins> 88MB cache, guess so!
<shauno> much more readable :)
<daftykins> have you modded much on yours of the default packages to have far less from pstree?
<shauno> yeah, I tend to kill things I see no use for
<daftykins> ah
<shauno> it's petty, but I like a short process list.  makes it easier to spot strangers
<daftykins> *nod* makes sense
<daftykins> i run Windows the same way
<shauno> (eg, running 6 gettys on VM where they're impossible to access.  hardly impacts anything, just looks ugly imho)
<daftykins> that's very true
<daftykins> if i knew more i'm sure i'd give it a trim too :D
<shauno> I won't go so far as to claim it's a good idea though.  just personal preference
<shauno> and my ufw rules only allow 2 subnets to ssh, so fail2ban becomes pointless
<daftykins> :>
<popey> ali1234: ok, got server-status working, anything in particular to look for? â»
<ali1234> well just check if you have loads of idle workers all the time
<ali1234> if so reduce then number
<ali1234> then it won't run out of memory?
<ali1234> but if you have loads in use then look at what they are doing
<popey> http://static.podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/server-status
<ali1234> i don't have permission to look at that
<popey> oh of course.
<popey> 2-0117080/8/8_ 2.55721120.00.280.28 94.23.248.168ubuntu-uk.orgPOST /xmlrpc.php HTTP/1.0
<popey> that looks dodgy
<ali1234> exploits...
<popey> poking for them, yeah
<ali1234> the question you have to ask is how many workers and how much memory do they use each?
<popey> 2 requests currently being processed, 8 idle workers
<ali1234> number of workers at startup is not the same as the absolute max
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9544293/
<ali1234> so 16 is the max
<ali1234> now hammer the website and watch what happens
<ali1234> wait no
<ali1234> 256 is the max
<ali1234> yeah that's too much for a small vps
<popey> ah
<popey> where's that set?
<ali1234> MaxClients
<popey> its set to 50
<popey> in apache2.conf
<ali1234> that's probably still too much for prefork on a small VPS. how much ram do you have?
<popey> 460MB
<ali1234> you probably can't have more than 20 apache processes running at once then
<popey> k
 * popey tries 20
<ali1234> you really need some kind of "high water mark" for memory usage
<ali1234> if it still runs out of memory after this, then reduce MaxRequestsPerChild to like 100
<m0nkey_> anyone had issue with ttf-mscorefonts-installer today? it's only downloading andale32 for me.
<m0nkey_> crappy sourceforge
<m0nkey_> returning error 500
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-17
<mapito> hi all
<mapito> switchover time eh
<mapito> or are daftykins  and zmoylan-1i  still around/;P
<Azelphur> OT question, does anyone know what the penalty is for bringing items above the duty free limit back to UK without declaring?
<Azelphur> eg the limit is Â£390 if I come back with Â£450 worth of stuff and don't declare it, what happens?
<DJones> Azelphur: https://www.gov.uk/customs-seizures/get-your-things-back
<DJones> Looks like if you get picked up, they can seize the goods but you can ask for them back after paying duty and maybe a penalty
<Azelphur> ah
<DJones> Not sure whether you can send a postal request to get them back from Guantanamo bay though
<foobarry> google+ is down?
<foobarry> ah up now. was down for 5 mins
<zmoylan-pi> and as the only person to notice you get a prize :-P
<nigelb> I'm surprised anyone noticed :P
<foobarry> i was rtying to access my photos
<popey> Morning all
<popey> everyone says that when G+ goes down
<foobarry> heh
<zmoylan-pi> but with googles resources and so few users you'd expect better uptime
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wright Brothers Day! :-D
<popey> so few users
<popey> right
<popey> people who don't use it say that
<zmoylan-pi> how often does it say on a news item 'and the news first appeared in a post on g+'...
<zmoylan-pi> that's not a measure of success by any means but it is... something
<popey> how is that a measure of how many people use it?
<popey> half a billion are on it
<zmoylan-pi> intentionally?
<zmoylan-pi> :-)
<popey> thats not "nobody" nor "ghost town" as many describe it
<popey> who cares
<popey> my mum is only on facebook because the rest of the family are
<popey> she wouldn't have chosen to use it
<zmoylan-pi> shot themselves in foot with nymwars, would have really suited me up to that point
<popey> meh
<popey> still "I don't use it therefore nobody does"
<popey> still wrong
<zmoylan-pi> i don't use it so it's irrelevent is more my argument :-)
<zmoylan-pi> ditto facebook and their silly numbers of users :-)
<popey> i'm only on fb for family stuff
<zmoylan-pi> does seem to be fb's punishment alright
<popey> wikipedia claims 860M active users on fb vs 540M active users on G+
<popey> not bad in 3 years
<zmoylan-pi> their definition of active is... suspect
<foobarry> compare the g+ and fb android downloads on play store?
<popey> G+ is default on android now
<popey> fb isnt
<popey> which skews things
<awilkins> That's not fair becuase G+ is in the default app set
<zmoylan-pi> there's lies, damned lies and then theirs statistics, and now in the 21st century we have social media engagement numbers :-D
<awilkins> And I wouldn't install the Facebook app for Android if you paid me
<popey> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.plus
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of android devices come with facebook preinstalled
<awilkins> TBH I'd very much like Ubuntu phone just for the same reasons I liked my N900
<popey> claims 500M-1Bn
 * zmoylan-pi seconds the ubuntu phone.  more choice of what runs on it
<awilkins> The app store might have been *tiny* compared to Android or iOS
<popey> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.facebook.katana claims 1Bn - 5Bn
<czajkowski> Aloha
<awilkins> But I knew that most of the apps in the repo were not there to monetize my personal data
<popey> Looking forward to full disk encryption on the ubuntu phone
<directhex> java. bloody bloody java.
<awilkins> Does each app get a sandboxed encrypted data folder?
<awilkins> Each one should get it's own symmetric key and be unable to access the others
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> morning czajkowski
<zmoylan-pi> and when you have an app that needs to access another apps data?
<popey> yes and no
<awilkins> If they want to exchange data it should be via dbus
<popey> each app is sandboxed
<popey> s/dbus/content-hub/
<popey> but /home is one partition, so the whole thing could (in the future) be encrypted
<popey> it isnt at the moment, but I believe its on the roadmap
<awilkins> Accessing each others data is a fragile thing to do anyway
<awilkins> Design information exchange as a service, not a rummaging around in someone elses desk
<czajkowski> TNT reuses their shipping numbers so looking at delivery for my new laptop it's either in slough or on it's way to guildford
<czajkowski> :(
<popey> apparmor prevents apps from seeing eachothers daya
<czajkowski> popey: top of the morning to you :)
<popey> *data
<zmoylan-pi> or it could have really taken a beating in transit and some parts are in slough and some parts are in guilford... :-P
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: do not joke :(
<czajkowski> I can almost reach my new X1
<czajkowski> I do need for the first time not to completely wipe windows off it
<awilkins> Power adapter in Slough, laptop in Guilford?
<czajkowski> and do a partial install of Ubuntu on it as seemingly I need to be able to use word for presentaions as libre office doesn;t seem to do the magic
<czajkowski> :(
<zmoylan-pi> it's delivery time near christmas czajkowski, the horriblest time of the year for deliveries.  fingers crossed it gets there in time for crimbo
<popey> wonder what the battery life is like on that under windows
<popey> what version of windows does it come with?
<awilkins> czajkowski,  I have Windows 7 in a VM for that
<popey> word for presentations? sounds odd
<czajkowski> popey: powerpoint :(
<popey> hehe, open source companies - lol
<czajkowski> popey: Marketing!
<awilkins> Yeah
<czajkowski> all about the pretty presentations
<czajkowski> so will see
<awilkins> I'm having that problem, even though I'm just writing specs
<czajkowski> new odf in google as support could make it a bit easier
<awilkins> They want them in the std. document template
<czajkowski> I find a bog standard what ever presentation importaed into google right now works fine
<awilkins> I tried Markdown ---[pandoc]---> docx
<awilkins> But it sucks. Converting it to ODT is marginally better
<zmoylan-pi> then google docs instead for presentation?
<awilkins> But saving the ODT as docx sucks too
<awilkins> The bullets are wrong
<awilkins> Like, the glyphs for the bullets are different to the ones Word uses
<awilkins> And of course, management insist on using Word / Track Changes as their review & comment tool
<awilkins> So you can't escape it
<zmoylan-pi> then let management fork out for office365?
<awilkins> We have that
<zmoylan-pi> so... completely forked then... :-)
<awilkins> Just adds another layer of complexity
<awilkins> What I was thinking of doing was either writing a Markdown input filter for Word
<awilkins> Or writing an output filter for Pandoc that writes a COM automation script that pokes the document into a running instance of Word
<awilkins> Since Word is the best thing for writing Word documents and nothing else comes close because it's so horribly complex
<bashrc> good moaning
<zmoylan-pi> i think even in the days of word 2.0 i used vim as editor and just copied pasted to word when i was finished.
<zmoylan-pi> couldn't abide it
<awilkins> First problem I ran into is that Pandoc is designed to do HTML, which means that it doesn't have a "you just entered a table" and "you just left a table" kind of event structure in it's output filters
<awilkins> Yeah, doing the formatting is driving me buts
<awilkins> nuts
<awilkins> Just simple things like this one : You have a table. You paste it into an empty Word document
<awilkins> Now try inserting a line above the table to put a title in
<awilkins> It's possible but non-intuitive
<awilkins> You have to put the cursor top-left of the first cell, and hit enter
<awilkins> Which inserts a line above the table
<zmoylan-pi> like clicking start to shutdown....
<awilkins> It's impossible to put the cursor before the table, there's no special key for "insert a line above the cursor" in Word AFAIK
<awilkins> In vim I'd just do `O`
<awilkins> I had to google that to work it out
<awilkins> The people who say that Word is intuitive and other things are hard to learn are just benefitting from years of learned quirks
<awilkins> I've hardly used it
<awilkins> The largest writing project I ever did with any wordprocessor was my epidemiology paper in med school, and that was with Wordperfect 5.1 for DOS
<zmoylan-pi> i think the mean aount of time between me using word these days is at least 1 version :-)
<awilkins> LibreOffice does very well at aping Word - it drives me equally insane
<zmoylan-pi> i saw wordperfect 5.1 around for a long time after windows came along.  i was the one usually asked to get it working on all the wacky printers that came afterwards
<awilkins> Colleague recommends using LibreOffice to save as DOC not DOCX
<awilkins> Keep meaning to try that
<awilkins> But RARRR to management and their insistence on style over substance
<awilkins> Would rather write specs as Markdown in a Gollum wiki and have people actually find them useful, than pretty
<willcooke> ali1234, have you played with the ESP8266 yet?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> whats gollum wiki awilkins
<foobarry> high fives bigcalm
<zmoylan-pi> https://github.com/gollum/gollum/wiki
<foobarry> tis a wiki that supports markdown?
<Guest61476> hey guys. i need an analysis tool for xferlogs, but i don't want to install webalizer with /var/www/ stuff,, just a command line tool that will produce a static set of stuff.
<Guest61476> just all the crontab entries and things, this is running on my own laptop machine, against downloaded log files. anyone know any nice tools for this?
<intrbiz> Guest61476: you can run webalizer in a one shot mode IIRC
<ali1234> willcooke: no, never heard of it?
<ali1234> reminds me of ATJ2085 though, except with wifi
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> I've just ordered one to play with
<willcooke> I think I'll just hook it up to an atmega 329 first
<ali1234> just a bare chip?
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> but
<willcooke> you can program it as well
<willcooke> or talk to it over seria
<willcooke> l
<willcooke> there's a "blink" for it which looks ok
<willcooke> easy enough to code for
<willcooke> and it's got a stdc available
<willcooke> yet another tool chain though
<willcooke> for 2 quid though, I'm going to try it and replace those cheapo 433 Mhz radios
<willcooke> (which I'm having no luck with over more than about 2 meters)
<ali1234> looks perfect for IoT assuming you can actually get the documentation
<willcooke> there's the rub :)
<willcooke> looks like a fairly active community around it
<ali1234> yeah, there was an active community for ATJ2085 too
<willcooke> https://github.com/esp8266/esp8266-wiki
<czajkowski> it wasn't in slough it's finally in Guildford :D new laptop!!!
<willcooke> http://www.esp8266.com/
<ali1234> we never got the proper docs though
<willcooke> from what I read this morning, the chip maker are supporting the community a little bit
<willcooke> I saw talk of a translated data sheet
<ali1234> yes, we got some "support" from actions, they gave us the data sheet with GPIOs etc
<ali1234> which i might add we already had
<ali1234> the thing about these cheap chinese chips is they'll discontinue it in a year and make a newer, slightly incompatible version
<ali1234> and you'll be back to square one
<ali1234> i would stay away from this, frankly
<willcooke> at 2 quid, I'll take a punt
<willcooke> it's only as a toy
<ali1234> yep, those cheap MP3 players were not much more expensive than that
<ali1234> i have a box full of them, they're junk now
<willcooke> :D
<ali1234> good learning experience, but i have no desire to mess around wiwth that type of stuff again
<zmoylan-pi> i have some really cheap and nasty mp3 players.  some were quite good and some were horrible.
<ali1234> how about nRF51822 as a better supported alternative?
 * zmoylan-pi glances nastily at bush mp3 player where i had to read the manual to find how to change volume
 * awilkins has an iRiver 1GB flash player that's great
<awilkins> Takes AAA batteries, play quality is good, plays OGG
<zmoylan-pi> 1gb... how did we ever manage? :-)
<popey> heh
<zmoylan-pi> i think the smallest sitting unused at the mo is 4gb
<popey> i miss my ihp-140
<shauno> my brother had a player that was roughly the size & weight of a pack of smokes, 32meg.  that was an expensive spin cycle ..
<foobarry> popey: my iriver was stolen :(
<foobarry> ihp-140
<foobarry> however i bought the cowon iaudio 16gb player which i have never knowingly charged
<foobarry> has the secret of free energy
<foobarry> and great sound
<diddledan> the us and cuba are to reestablish diplomatic relations
<diddledan> and now I go round parentals
<diddledan> tata
<shauno> hopefully these aren't related
<mapito> apprentice time
<mapito> :D
<diddledan> allo allo
<diddledan> browser ballot in windows is no-more: http://support2.microsoft.com/kb/2019411/en-us?sd=rss&spid=14019
<diddledan> I wonder whether that means less folk will switch to non-ie browsers in the future
<diddledan> and therefore not discover the wonderful world of open sauce
<shauno> lucky them :)  firefox needs to die in fire.
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30526406
<diddledan> apparently hacktivism works
<diddledan> but to be fair, sony has been beaten so hard by the hackers that they're unrecognisable even to a phorensics expert
<diddledan> the poo not only hit the fan, but ripped it out of the ceiling and shoved it up sony's bottom
<shauno> they should just stick it online
<diddledan> </family friendly>
<shauno> I know it's kinda against their ethos, but at this point, they've put everything else online ....
<zmoylan-pi> or maybe after ploughing through all their downloads they've found something in sonys data sony really doesn't want made public
<diddledan> some twit suggested putting it on torrent trackers entitled "complete guardians of peace stolen data dump" or some such
<shauno> you're really supposed to rebuild OpenElec to change .. anything?
<diddledan> don't use raspbmc they don't verify any downloaded data before replacing files on an update - I expect openelec is similar
<shauno> sometimes I really do want to give you a thick ear :)
<diddledan> the raspbmc updater is a shell script of the order "download all the things from unverifiable server over clear http. nuke system with downloaded things"
<zmoylan-pi> sony level security... :-P
<diddledan> I think I recall it even executed a script from the unverified server - again without checking it's velidity
<zmoylan-pi> escalating to adobe level...
<shauno> hm, it seems this buildsystem is so messed up it's going to need a VM
<diddledan> \o/
<shauno> why does everyone need their own buildsystem these days?
<zmoylan-pi> managers like to point at something and say that they decided on that
<diddledan> ok, my mind reads a random twit exclaiming that a football match has gone beyond extra time to the bit where 5 men from each team score a goal against the opposing goalkeeper (unless one of the teams is britain in which case at least one guy misses) and I read an extra space between the L and T leading to a BSDM situation instead of football "penalties"
<diddledan> BDSM**
<diddledan> shauno, not invented here
<directhex> or lack of awareness
<diddledan> the openwrt one is strange
<diddledan> it uses a menu system similar (or maybe stolen from) the linux kernel
<diddledan> +to
<shauno> this is starting to make freebsd look sane.  to change sysctl.conf, I have to rebuild every single binary on the system
<directhex> menuconfig?
<directhex> shauno: i know a number of distros like that
<directhex> shauno: there's a method to the madness, if you have 256 machines to make the change on
<diddledan> openelec likes to pretend it's a consumer electronic device
<shauno> it's hilarious
<shauno> eg, they're removed passwd(1)
<directhex> shauno: i lol'd
<ali1234> i think there's a case to be made for the single-user OS
<shauno> this is one of the things that's irking me right now; http://paste.ubuntu.com/9555267/
<ali1234> i mean we know now that unix users don't provide an adequate security model anyway
<shauno> I have an image with ssh enabled, and u/p root/root
<directhex> like i said, i've used systems like that, designed for mass deployment.
<ali1234> most of security research now is about how to protect programs from each other when they are all running as the same user
<shauno> I'm "not allowed" to change the password.  and the 'tip' to disable password ssh logins - sshd_config is on a read-only squashfs.
<diddledan> ali1234, you still need user-separation for concurrent access
<ali1234> many devices do not need concurrency, or even multiple user accunts
<shauno> "luckily" they've also managed to break ipv6, so at least ssh isn't listening publicly.
<ali1234> for example phones
<ali1234> nobody shares a mobile phone
<zmoylan-pi> a work phone can be shared
<zmoylan-pi> different folks having it on a weekend.  not as common now but still done
<diddledan> ali1234, not true - I might hand my phone over to my sister for her to call her husband in the instance she forgot hers or just can't find it. I obviously don't want her to open the web browser because I was watching pr0n on there the previous night
<diddledan> a second user account in that instance would be awesome
<shauno> curious - if she wanted to send an email on your laptop, would you bother to play the Guest Login dance?
<zmoylan-pi> just install and bury a separate browser on the device, all nasty searches go through that
<ali1234> diddledan: no it wouldn't, you just need guest mode or kid mode
<diddledan> ali1234, that's a separate user account
<ali1234> it doesn't have to be
<shauno> kid mode on the iphone isn't a separate account.  you just lock them into a single app
<ali1234> if you already have app sandboxing anyway, also making it a different user account adds no benefit, just complexity
<ali1234> and app sandboxing is a requirement these days
<ali1234> this is even more true if your app sandboxing is implemented with containers, then you're effectively running a whole different OS, why do you need users?
<diddledan> android does it as separate user accounts because there's a LOT in android that is tied to an "identity" which is shared between apps - the simplest way to allow other people to use the phone/tablet without also allowing access to unexpected things was and is a separate user account which can also be locked-down if the owner wishes
<ali1234> okay, but android has a lot of compromises around the linux/unix model
<ali1234> it isn't necessary to do it that way
<diddledan> no, but it's the obvious way
<shauno> well, http://lakka.tv/ looks neat, but sticking it on top of openelec seems to be a dealbreaker for me
<ali1234> sure, the obvious way isn't necessarily the best way though :)
<shauno> especially when it's half-finished, sitting on a read-only filesystem is a luxury they can't afford
<diddledan> I don't care about hypotheticals which are unlikely to ever happen and likely to behave in a manner that people don't expect
<ali1234> i don't think you can argue that most people expect everything to use the unix user permissions model
<diddledan> user-level separation is obviously the simplest way to .. separate users. why should I log out of facebook and log out of google and log out of twitter and log out of IRC and tell all those things never to remember my password for my sanity just because my nephew wants to play a game?
<diddledan> surely it's obvious that I give him a different environment
<ali1234> i don't know. i mean that's exactly what you have to do using the unix user model
<diddledan> no it isn't
<ali1234> you log out, go to the login screen, someone else logs in
<diddledan> no
<ali1234> a much better solution would be to boot up a container
<diddledan> I lock my account. someone else rocks up and logs into theirs or a guest
<ali1234> this does not have to be implemented using unix user accounts
<diddledan> my applications run in the background. theirs run in the foreground. they don't interact but are separated by my identity being not theirs
<ali1234> this can be entirely implemented with a single user OS with a container per user
<diddledan> per user. user-level separation.
<diddledan> we've got that already!
<ali1234> and quite likely will be more secure that way
<diddledan> I don't care whether it's enforced by the kernel or enforced by the kernel. either way it's enforced by the kernel and I have an account and my guests have an account - how is that not user-level separation?!
<ali1234> it is
<diddledan> you're comparing apples to apples - they're all damned apples!
<ali1234> it just isn't using unix users
<intrbiz> LXC runs the container as a different unix user
<diddledan> I need a way for the host system to direct the interactions from one user to one "container" (in your model) and another user to a different container - they both need to access the same input and output devices so the host os needs to know which user is using it - unix users?
<ali1234> if your host/hypervisor is unix then sure, but why does it have to be?
<ali1234> even if it is, the stuff running inside the container doesn't need to be
<diddledan> I just don't see the need to reinvent the wheel
<ali1234> this isn't re-inventing the wheel
<ali1234> the wheel has already been re-invented and it is called app sandboxing and containers and now you have spare wheels that don't do anything but need mainenance all the time anyway
<diddledan> user-level separation is perfectly suitable to separate users. you're suggesting we don't separate users but instead separate users.
<shauno> it's more like arguing over whether to seperate them with fences or walls
<shauno> either way you're still trying to pretend a phone is a 1960's timesharing system
<ali1234> no, it's more like arguing between walls or walls and fences
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-18
<diddledan> what benefit does the fence give you that the wall can't do on it's own?
<ali1234> none
<diddledan> bingo
<diddledan> so don't bother!
<ali1234> fences are unix users and walls are containers
<diddledan> it's extra work just to use the fancy shiny
<diddledan> no, walls are unix users. fences are sandboxes
<ali1234> lol no
<ali1234> unix user permissions don't cut it any more
<diddledan> and we're back where we came in
<diddledan> why?
<diddledan> why do you think unix users are crap?
<diddledan> </language>
<ali1234> unix user permissions cannot stop some random fart app from deleting your ~
<diddledan> what about them is unfit for purpose
<diddledan> yes they can
<ali1234> no, they can't
<diddledan> they just don't the way people use them
<ali1234> so you are suggesting that people should run eery app as a different user account?
<diddledan> I'm not advocating it
<shauno> this has always been the scary gap in permissions for me
<shauno> people say unix is malware-proof because random trash can't get root (usually)
<ali1234> the unix user model being unsuitable for modern computer users is not a controversial idea
<shauno> which is completely back-to-front.  I don't care if it gets root.  I can reinstall my OS.
<shauno> I care if it trashes my pictures.  which are owned by my user, so are completely unprotected by 1970-style permissions
<ali1234> exactly
<ali1234> and once you've solved this problem, whatever way you do it, the new thing will obsolete unix users
<diddledan> no it won't
<diddledan> the new thing will isolate one app from another, not one user from another
<diddledan> unless you're suggesting everyone installs modern warfare in a separate sandbox just for them?
<diddledan> (hint. modern warfare is 55GB)
<ali1234> the binaries, sure
<ali1234> modern filesystems can deduplicate that stuff without needing to know about users
<diddledan> deduplication takes a LOT of RAM and CPU
<diddledan> I don't believe my phone has that much grunt
<diddledan> (and games on phones are often larger than 1GB each, so don't moan that the argument is moot)
<ali1234> wrong. all it takes is copy-on-write
<ali1234> and that takes only a tiny amount of resources
<diddledan> er. no.
<diddledan> download the game twice you have the game twice
<ali1234> right, why would you need to download it twice?
<diddledan> because I download it in my private app area which isn't a user account, and my brother downloads it in his private app area which isn't a user account
<ali1234> why would you do that?
<diddledan> you advocated containers earlier - inside a container my brother can't access the app I installed in my container
<ali1234> i mean you can do that with unix users, if you install stuff in ~, but why would you?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> each container only runs ONE app
<ali1234> that's the whole point
<diddledan> in which case how do we both access the same app at the same time with different data?!
<ali1234> okay.
<ali1234> you know VMware appliances right?
<ali1234> each app is a VMware appliance. anyone can run it. when you run it, it saves the differences to a private file for you
<ali1234> your host OS has some concept of users, but it doesn't need unix users, or even a filesystem
<ali1234> the OS that runs inside the containers doesn't need to know about user accounts AT ALL
<ali1234> it only needs to know "this is the base image and this is the user's changes"
<ali1234> ie it's transparent to the guest
<ali1234> and for sharing files between containers you use something like ubuntu's content hub
<ali1234> which would be built into the host
<ali1234> and of course the containers can build on top of each other
<diddledan> so now lets ask the question again. in what way, are unix users not suitable for the host to separate the users?
<ali1234> they're fine for that
<ali1234> the point is that you don't need them in the guest. at all
<ali1234> and they just add unneccessary complexity that you don't need
<ali1234> also, they are actually MORE than you need on the host
<ali1234> because the host doesn't even need a traditional filesystem, let alone permissions
<ali1234> so on the host you would replace them with something simpler
<ali1234> simpler is better, less attack surface
<diddledan> new is worse, unproven
<ali1234> that is also true
<ali1234> however, we can't just end all progress because "new is worse"
<diddledan> no, but we're talking about things that can already be done with preexisting tech, so why reinvent the wheel
<ali1234> this is simply the logical conclusion of what happens when you container-ize everything
<ali1234> this stuff can't be entirely done with existing tech, that's the point
<ali1234> it's still being created as we speak
<diddledan> apparmor has existed for years. user-level separation has existed much longer. containers/vms have also been around for ages. the only thing that didn't until recently was content-hub but you don't need that, you _can_ do it with standard unix filesystems and permissions
<diddledan> for that last one. read, ACLs and/or judicious bind-mounting
<ali1234> yes, you can, if you don't mind the technical debt incurred by using 50 year old technology in a way it wasn't intended :P
<ali1234> at some point though you are going to have to refactor everything to not suck
<shauno> I still don't get why you'd want users on a phone at all
<ali1234> shauno: in the most abstract sense, "guest" is a user
<zmoylan-pi> just because it's a feature you'd never use doesn't mean someone won't find it really useful
<shauno> well, I mean I don't see much use for a 'guest' either
<ali1234> the point is you wouldn't expose these users to the... user
<ali1234> unless you were actually making a multiuser mainframe for some reason
<diddledan> I seriously hope you don't think that user-less is the way to go on the server
<ali1234> what kind of server?
<shauno> that's probably the best example of where "container all the things" is already happening
<diddledan> for argument, a web serving host
<ali1234> exactly
<ali1234> okay, say you have a website which consists of one container running mysql, and one container running apache/php/wordpress
<ali1234> why do you need users?
<ali1234> given that each server is running exactly one process, how are you even going to make use of more than one user?
<diddledan> because I want the dba to be able to restart apache and I want the sysad to be able to restart apache and mysql and I want myself to be able to grant and revoke those permissions
<diddledan> dba - mysql, not apache
<diddledan> but you get the point
<ali1234> if you want to restart then, you just reboot the container
<ali1234> there is no need to ever even log into the containers
<ali1234> so you have users in your host/control node and nowhere else
<diddledan> but I want the dba to not be able to restart apache
<diddledan> bingo. you have users
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> you still have users
<ali1234> just not inside any of the containers
<ali1234> where "container" implies an entire virtual machine running a totally isolated operating system which has no concept of users
<diddledan> so when my php app gets pwned the guy that now has access to the server is de-facto root and therefore can exploit any weaknesses in the lxc subsystem with impunity to elevate to host-root?
<diddledan> or otherwise access the kernel
<ali1234> if you have no users you have no root user
<diddledan> yes, you do, because the lxc host kernel has users
<diddledan> just because you choose not to assign uids doesn't mean the kernel doesn't track them
<ali1234> who said we're using lxc?
<diddledan> uml then?
<diddledan> chroot?
<ali1234> this weakness of lxc happens BECAUSE it re-uses unix users
<ali1234> we would be using a yet-to-be-written hypervisor and a yet-to-be-written single user guest kernel
<ali1234> specifically designed to be used this way
<diddledan> that's not a container. that's a vm
<ali1234> it's more like a hybrid
<ali1234> it isn't quite like anything that currently exists
<diddledan> semantics, yes, but container is a specific thing that reuses the host kernel
<ali1234> well okay, forget containers. what we're talking about is a specially designed system where the host and the guest and more tightly coupled than you expect with a VM, but less so than with a container
<ali1234> that is, the host and guest kernels are aware of each other but not the same
<ali1234> the guest kernel would be extremely simple, it would not need any device drivers for example
<ali1234> that would be provided by the host, where appropriate
<ali1234> it wouldn't need to know about block devices and such, the host would just say "this is your read-only root filesystem, and this is your read-write filesystem"
<ali1234> awesome, i have input now
<daftykins> \o/
<ali1234> reconciling the iterative game loop with object oriented event input
<diddledan> ooh, ooei :-p
<daftykins> ^quit message as bad as brand-specific email signatures :(
<diddledan> related: hang on, let me find the email and figure out if there's an archive link for it - I received it a few days ago and it made me laugh
<diddledan> sent to ubuntu uk mailing list in reply to popey's attempt to reinvigorate the loco - referencing open source in general and how to get more people using ubuntu: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2014-December/038123.html
<diddledan> it was head-smacking time for me when I read it
<daftykins> "digital eagles" 0o
<diddledan> yeah I didn't get that one either
<diddledan> when you see it...
<daftykins> *nod* pretty amusing to be commenting like that then use hotmail :(
<daftykins> then possibly a Windows only client too
<diddledan> it's pretty explicit: Sent from Windows Mail
<daftykins> yeah i meant that for that part
<diddledan> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/18/world/asia/us-links-north-korea-to-sony-hacking.html
<diddledan> I like the last paragraph which alludes to an all-out cyberwar - that could be fun to watch.. I wonder if american GIs will be holed-up in a darkened bunker with the only illumination coming from the many computer screens showing the progress of their attacks and counter-attacks and the state of the nation's cyber defences
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> Wargames (1983)
<diddledan> for anyone who likes google play movies/tv - they're giving away a free movie right now - they gave me the first "sherlock holmes" movie with iron-man robert downey jr (I'm unsure whether they're giving everyone or whether it was just me)#
<diddledan> everyone that title**
<diddledan> I'm just about to watch "lucy" now
<daftykins> hrmm something new to the shaun the sheep thing last time :>
<diddledan> yeah, that shaun the sheep is sat in my account never to be watched
<daftykins> it was fun!
<daftykins> ah yesh sherlock holmes
<daftykins> but it won't let me buy a free item because my card has expired
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> that's weird - you can't get a freebie unless they have your balls?
<diddledan> sorry. family.
<daftykins> tsk tsk
<bujji> popey:
<bujji> popey:i have a problem with wifi.
<diddledan> and only popey knows how to fix it?
<bujji> diddledan:you can help me.
<diddledan> I can? thanks.
<mapito> morning
<diddledan> allo mapito
<bujji> diddledan: wifi is not able to enable
<diddledan> mapito, have you gone italian?
<mapito> no heh
<mapito> just my alt nick
<diddledan> theoretically I don't need to do any work today - everyone else is heading off on the company xmas party, but for some reason there's a requirement for a passport, and I didn't get around to applying
<diddledan> my old one is out of date
<mapito> why a passport
<mapito> where you going
<diddledan> no idea
<diddledan> something they're getting up to requires it and the person who organised it hasn't let on what the plan is
<bujji> diddledan:help me please...
<diddledan> bujji, I need more to go on than just "is not able to enable"
<diddledan> bujji, my suspicion is that you have a hardware switch which is in the wrong position
<diddledan> bujji, you're more likely to find someone who knows about these things in #ubuntu at 6:20am in the uk
<bujji> diddledan: i click on network section-->there i cant be able on the wifi
<diddledan> that's not very descriptive
<diddledan> (or if you're using the MS Word spelling and grammar checker and you want to avoid receiving that damned passive voice alert on every single phrase, then "that's very undescriptive"
<bujji> diddledan:I cant be able to enable the wifi in my ubuntu desktop.I tried to use fn+f2 for enable the wifi,but its not working...hope you got my point.
<diddledan> bujji, has it ever worked?
<bujji> diddledan:yes,It worked before.
<mapito> diddledan,  sounds intriguing needing a passport.
<diddledan> bujji, what did you do differently this time that you didn't on previous occasions? e.g. pressing that fn+f2 combo you mentioned
<diddledan> also did you press fn+f2 before trying anything else expecting it to magicly work or did you use ubuntu's networking menu first and resort to the fn+f2 when you couldn't get it working?
<bujji> diddledan: fn+f2 is for enable the wifi(short cut).I tried to check manually but its not working.
<diddledan> bujji, which did you do first
<bujji> diddledan:fn+f2
<diddledan> bujji, that'll be your problem then
<diddledan> you've told the hardware to turn off the wifi
<bujji> i went to network options to enable the wifi,there i cant be able to enable.
<bujji> gui
<diddledan> once you've done that no amount of ubuntu cleverness can work around it - you need to turn the chip back-on such as by rebooting (if that works), pressing fn+f2 again once (and praying) or cursing and swearing because neither of those two worked and you realise there's no other way to enable the chip without going into windows
<bujji> i tried  $ifconfig wlan0 up
<diddledan> fn+f2 is specific to your laptop and doesn't signal ubuntu at all - it completely sidesteps the operating system and tells the hardware to turn off in such a manner that the operating system cannot talk to it anymore
<bujji> it is a shortcut specification to enable wifi.
<diddledan> no amount of fiddling with ifconfig or any other ubuntu utility will be able to do anything with the chip while it's turned off
<diddledan> you might be able to get one of the utilities to report that the hardware is turned off but I can't remember which utility or how to get that info
<diddledan> even though it can tell you the hardware is turned off the utility cannot turn it back on, nothing in ubuntu can
<mapito> what card has he got
<diddledan> no idea, he said it worked previously and then he pressed the magic keycombo and it stopped working
<diddledan> or rather didn't enable.
<diddledan> his words^^
<mapito> what card bujji
<diddledan> afaict none of those magic keycombos ever signal the operating system with their implementation being either entirely hardware or bios driven
<bujji> mapito:how can i found?
<mapito> lspci i think\?
<diddledan> yes, `lspci`
<bujji> might be
<bujji> mapito:help me on this.
<diddledan> a random unnamed googler says that google is going to have a "disastrous" 2015
<diddledan> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/googles-very-rough-transition-nicholas
<diddledan> excuse my language, but I think that's a load of traffic cones!
<diddledan> (bollards)
<diddledan> ex googler at that
<mapito> bujji, run lspci sheesh
<bujji> mapito:what this command do.
<bujji> mapito it gives me different options.
<bujji> mapito:hey
<diddledan> https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1510557_316261935243706_2025905013926039893_n.jpg?oh=729535754c86c0a45d45abc312b30dd3&oe=553934A0&__gda__=1430421819_0f33a99f581f80557f0f1c73261cc4a0
<bujji> diddledan:?
<diddledan> yes?
<bujji> diddledan:whats that url.
<diddledan> it's an image
<bujji> okey
<bujji> mapito:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VVosf9p5GM
<bujji> diddledan:is this work for me.
<mapito> so u fixed it?
<mapito> cool
<mapito> lspci wont give options but it will tell you what your wireless card is
<mapito> so you can find out more etc
<bujji> mapito:not yet
<mapito> find out what the card is and look at the ubuntuforums
<mapito> ubuntuforums.org v helpful
<bujji> mapito:no luck
<mapito> what card is it according to lspci output
<mapito> put that and ubuntu into google:D
<mapito> i dunno what card it is
<diddledan> what's the collective noun for a group of velociraptors?
<diddledan> I thought maybe a herd, flock, gaggle or murder
<diddledan> I came up with them in that order
<bujji> mapito:how can i check that card and all
<bujji> mapito:hey
<bujji> mapito:my output of rfkill
<bujji> mapito:rfkill list all
<bujji> mapito: o/p  0:phy0:wireless LAN
<bujji> soft blocked:no
<bujji> hard blocked:yes
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHIWcRU38ls I'm laughing hard
<diddledan> bujji, like I said 2 hours ago!
<diddledan> hard blocked:yes means you turned it off
<bujji> :mapito:how can i turn it on.
<bujji> diddledan:how can i turn on
<diddledan> I told you that ages ago
<diddledan> [06:33:51] <diddledan> once you've done that no amount of ubuntu cleverness can work around it - you need to turn the chip back-on such as by rebooting (if that works), pressing fn+f2 again once (and praying) or cursing and swearing because neither of those two worked and you realise there's no other way to enable the chip without going into windows
<bujji> I reboot the system and did the same as fn+f2
<bujji> diddledan:but no luck
<diddledan> then I don't know
<bujji> diddledan:chip back-on ??
<bujji> diddledan:success
<bujji> diddledan:thanks for your help
<diddledan> how did you fix it?
<bujji> diddledan:http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2220855&page=4
<bujji> diddledan: you are helpful-->http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2220855
<bujji> diddledan:happy christmas
<bujji> diddledan:bye.see you again.))
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> morning
<foobarry> hi
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> bigcalm: how's life and have you built the super star destroyer yet or better still figured out where the hell you put something that big
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: you're more interested in the SSD than I am...
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's cause I was seriously tempted to buy till I realised I'd have to put it somewhere and you are the only person I know who has it :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Free Shipping Day! :-D
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm living my dream of building it though you ;)
 * davmor2 wraps JamesTait and his family and sends them to South Africa with his free shipping......Good luck getting back but have a lovely family Christmas while you are there :)
 * JamesTait tries to hug davmor2 but can't get past the packaging.
 * davmor2 throws in JamesTait laptop so he has no excuse not to work
<JamesTait> Hah!
<davmor2> JamesTait: I'm not getting you out of work and a free holiday
<bigcalm> davmor2: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/545519810059436032/photo/1
 * JamesTait adds davmor2 to the Christmas card list.
<bigcalm> My office isn't very large
<davmor2> bigcalm: suspend it from the ceiling is as far as I got trying to figure out where the hell to put it but when you realise it is 8KG that isn't the best option out there :)
<bigcalm> That's a lot of plastic
<davmor2> bigcalm: the other option is get a bit of ply wood cut to the right length and width suspend that from the ceiling and then put the model onto that, that would work
<davmor2> bigcalm: how are you with measurements and a drill?
<davmor2> and finding joists preferably
<davmor2> bigcalm: also you seem to be overlooking the width of it :)
<bigcalm> I thought it was long and thin
<bigcalm> What's the width?
<davmor2> bigcalm: it is wedge shaped the widest bit will be your issue
<bigcalm> Which is? :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: you know what nothing says only mentions it's length but I'm assuming about 40 cm's looking at the proportions in pictures
<bigcalm> Kitchen table it is then
<bigcalm> s/Kitchen/Dinningroom
<bigcalm> 1i? 1 x sqr(-1) ?
<davmor2> bigcalm: if I hear nothing from you in the new year I'll send flowers to the crem ;)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Might be best if I leave it boxed
<davmor2> http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/
<davmor2> seemed somehow appropriate
<davmor2> bigcalm: show that to Hayley and say I ask Lord Vader if I should leave it in the box this was his reaction :)
<bigcalm> Cute
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<DJones> bigcalm: davmor2: Azelphur: I think this may be for you https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152383682505146
<bigcalm> Sorry, I lack flash
<bigcalm> DJones: synopsis?
<DJones> Christmas singing stormtroopers
<bigcalm> Ah
<DJones> Doing santa clause is coming to town with excerpts from the original star wars movies
<bigcalm> Cute
<davmor2> bigcalm: try https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRSepEkYsMA
<zmoylan-pi> and you don't 'lack flash' you 'secured your os' :-P
<bigcalm> Grr
<bigcalm> ctrl-w with the wrong window having focus
<zmoylan-pi> use an irc client that doesn't allow ctrl-w to close the window? or remap the combo?
<bigcalm> Never been much of a problem, just one of those things
<davmor2> bigcalm: did that one play for you?
<bigcalm> davmor2: yes, youtube works for me. Facebook only uses flash for videos
<davmor2> bigcalm: you use chromium or chrome then right?
<bigcalm> Chromium
<popey> Morning
<popey> bah, apache eating all the ram and swap again
<popey> Mem:    473624k total,   468804k used,     4820k free,      112k buffers
<popey> Swap:   262140k total,   262140k used,        0k free,     5232k cached
<foobarry> i miss wobbly windows :(
<DJones> \o/ Sky have updated their SkyGo app to work with Android 5.0
<bashrc> I still have wobbly windows
<awilkins> Only when the window blows VERY hard here
<bashrc> I'm on kubuntu. You can turn on wobbly windows under "desktop effects"
<foobarry> i miss kde 3.5
<zmoylan-pi> last time i had wobby windows i found someone stuck a fridge magnet to my crt
<awilkins> Arrgh
<awilkins> I remember that
<awilkins> Magnetized CRT grille masks
<awilkins> Trying to degauss them with an electric razor
<zmoylan-pi> or pressing the degauss option on high end monitors.  *bong*
<popey> *clangggggg*
<popey> *click*
<zmoylan-pi> *sproink*
<awilkins> That really did give you wobbly windows
<awilkins> Someone should do a "degauss" toy for modern desktops
<awilkins> Just makes a *donk* noise and makes the screen wobble and blur a bit
<foobarry> zoinnnnngggtick
<shauno> "wobbly windows" is right about where I gave up on linux on the desktop
<zmoylan-pi> add it as option to screen savers options...
<foobarry> shauno: but beryl, and compiz...so much fun, so much breakage
<mapito> diddledan,  did that guy fix his wifi?
<diddledan> mapito, yeah, he didn't explain what he did but just pasted a link to an ubuntuforums page with many many many posts when I asked him how he did it
<mapito> cool
<mapito> so he didnt need popey:P
<mapito> first thing he said when he came here heh
 * popey isn't needed anymore
<diddledan> popey, it was six o'clock this morning - he was adament that you were the only guy who could help him and seemed to think you're at his beck and call 24/7
<popey> hah
<shauno> hm.  gives me an idea.  we need to start selling maint contracts
<shauno> the real world has taught me that it doesn't actually matter if popey can't deliver what sales promise ;)
<diddledan> shauno, good idea
<diddledan> I just don't get why non-english speakers seem to find this room over either their own language room or the main #ubuntu
<diddledan> having a paywall may help in this regard, or at least give some relief from the pain
<zmoylan-pi> it's more active and turns up in more google searches?
<shauno> I suspect it's something in a translation somewhere
<shauno> eg, if xchat has -uk as the default for en_GB (vs C/en_US)
<zmoylan-pi> noobies should be asked for a 11 digit prime number before their questions are answered? :-)
<popey> well..
<popey> there's google helpouts
<popey> which I keep meaning to try
<diddledan> I'm still waiting for my invite to that
<popey> https://helpouts.google.com/search?q=ubuntu
<popey> seems there are people offering help including SuperMatt â»
<shauno> so the various countries that still prefer English over American English - if they opt to install their OS in English, they may get uk-leaning defaults?
 * zmoylan-pi plans a hiberno english distro... for culchies AND jackeens... :-)
<shauno> I'm still trying to figure out how to modify /etc in this lakka/openelec thing :(
<SuperMatt> I'm not doing that any more because work+dancing+social life = no time for anything else
<zmoylan-pi> if you could convince your bosses that you could work from a club you could work dance AND socialise more efficiently :-)
<SuperMatt> hahaha
<SuperMatt> well there aren't many dance clubs which run 9-5
<zmoylan-pi> presentations at meetings via telecommuting would be neat :-)
<shauno> 'dancing tech support' sounds like what Hangouts was meant for
<SuperMatt> pfft
<shauno> where on earth have I picked up "cat directory/" from?  afiak that only works on Hurd, but my fingers keep typing it
<zmoylan-pi> do you in fact *have* a cat? :-)
<shauno> heh, no
<shauno> iirc on hurd, cat against a folder will list the contents.  I can't remember it working anywhere else though
<shauno> for some reason I've tried to do this multiple times per day, and I can't figure out why
<zmoylan-pi> is it a subliminal desire to acquire a cat? :-P
<shauno> lol, no.  pets are only slightly less evil than children
<awilkins> Looks like Helpouts has been killed for the UK and EU by #VATMESS  : "We've updated our Terms of Service. Providers from Ireland or the United Kingdom may only offer free Helpouts. Customers in the EU may only take free Helpouts."
<shauno> I'd assume it's temporary, unless it was already a dying product?
<awilkins> Wouldn't be surprised if it was on purpose to cause a stink, they can certainly afford it
<awilkins> Hey, that's a point - doesn't this affect Ubuntu sales / donations from the download page?
<ali1234> i would think canonical are already vat registered?
<awilkins> In all of the EU countries?
<shauno> you don't need to be vat registered in every country
<ali1234> right, that's the whole point
<ali1234> under the old rules you needed to be vat registered in every country
<awilkins> Presume they still need to keep track of where everyone comes from - will there be a "I
<ali1234> under the new rules you need to be vat registered in your home country if and only if you would be required to be vat registered in a country you sell to
<awilkins> am in this country" dropdown
<awilkins> ?
<Laney> pretty sure donations aren't subject to vat
<shauno> the new change is simply that you have to charge the vat rate for the buyer's country, rather than the seller's country
<ali1234> and the reason people are unhappy with this is because previously they just didn't bother being vat registered in other countries than their home country, and there was nothing those other countries could do about it
<awilkins> They are unhappy with it because they previously didn't have to register for VAT in the UK because they fell under the Â£81,000 limit
<awilkins> But now they have to work out their VAT remittance to every EU country individually
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> that's what they previously were supposed to do
<ali1234> under the new rules you send all your VAT to your home country and they split it
<awilkins> Yes, but you didn't have to work it all out before
<ali1234> so under the new rules it is much easier to comply with the law, but much harder to flaunt it in the way that online sellers have been doing for years
<awilkins> NOT much easier to comply with the law
<ali1234> no, it is much easier to comply with the law
<awilkins> Previously - you took in less than Â£81k , you complied with the law by not paying VAT
<ali1234> no, you complied with the UK law - not the law in all the countries you were selling to
<awilkins> Now - you have to know the VAT rate for every EU country, keep records of your customers for 10 years
<ali1234> you already had to do that
<zmoylan-pi> thought it was only 7 years in ireland
<ali1234> previous rules: you have to comply with the VAT laws of every country you sell to
<ali1234> new rules: you only have to comply with the VAT rules of your home country
<diddledan> previous purchases I've made from european countries have all been subject to their vat rate
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: hmm.. Apple just went the other way -- from charging Luxemburg VAT on app store purchases in NL to NL VAT
<zmoylan-pi> so the search is on for country with weakest vat rules for shell companies...
<awilkins> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/11295953/How-the-EU-is-throttling-online-business-with-idiotic-VAT-reform.html
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: some "re-shipping" companies in the US are in Oregon for that very reason -- no sales tax
<ali1234> zmoylan-pi: no, because the whole point is to make the rules the same everywhere
<awilkins> Changes : i) No exemption for turnover < Â£81k ii) have to charge VAT in the country of the buyer, not the seller (so now have to account for 28 countries worth of VAT regs)
<ali1234> germany didn't have an exemption in the first place
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: and every country can change VAT regs all the time
<awilkins> May well be true of Germany - bet they don't have a thriving (legal) small business community selling digital product online
<shauno> ugh @ that telegraph article
<shauno> that single last line makes me discount the entire article and look for a better source, I'm afraid.
<awilkins> It's not the only source agreeing with that, but it is the most right-wing one ; although they probably hate it because of the tax abuses it was designed to block
<ali1234> i particularly love how the telegraph claims bandcamp will be affected, while the source they link to specifically contradicts this
<ali1234> you mean the tax abuses like people not paying the VAT they owe when they sell goods over the internet?
<awilkins> Yes
<awilkins> But it removes that Â£81k exemption from small UK business concerns (and any other exemptions), which makes them that much less viable
<awilkins> There are already payment processors offering the option to stop selling into the EU
<ali1234> except that excemption NEVER applied if you sold things to germany
<awilkins> TO Germany or IN Germany?
<ali1234> it's just that there was absolutely nothing germany could do about you ripping them off
<ali1234> TO germany
<zmoylan-pi> when reading the newspapers in uk you must always keep the yes minister guide to newspapers in the back of your mind... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M
<awilkins> First came upon this from girlfriend ... who has a small business selling digital content (craft tutorials)
<awilkins> She's basically very sad because her business plan is no longer viable, because she can't afford all the accountancy that she'd need to comply, and she can't afford to take time off work to make her business her full time employment - she wanted to build up a "long tail" of content and customers.
<davmor2> awilkins: any good accountant will pay for themselves and if she is hitting 81,000 a year she can afford a good accountant, and good accountants will save enough to pay for themselves in my experience
<awilkins> But she's not hitting Â£81k a year - but these new rules mean she no longer has that exemption
<awilkins> Now she has to register for VAT and keep accounts of the address of every customer she has
<awilkins> And charge appropriate VAT for the country of her customer
<intrbiz> awilkins: have you seen the latest update on: https://www.change.org/p/vince-cable-mp-uphold-the-vat-exemption-threshold-for-businesses-supplying-digital-products ?
<awilkins> intrbiz, /,e looks
<intrbiz> awilkins: Enterprise Nation also has some good info on the VAT MOSS stuff: https://www.enterprisenation.com/blog/posts/5-steps-to-vat-moss
<intrbiz> the uproar over VAT MOSS is interesting in that it was intended to reduce tax avoidance by large online retailers etc
 * bashrc doesn't know the difference between a business and a micro-business
<bashrc> I thought all businesses except for charities had to be VAT registered
<intrbiz> bashrc: no
<intrbiz> you only need to be VAT registered if your turnover is over Â£81k in the UK
<bashrc> so digital goods are VAT excempt? That's news to me
<intrbiz> no
<intrbiz> companies with a turnover of less that Â£81K are exempt from VAT
<bashrc> oh
<intrbiz> so they don't need to be registered, nor to file returns
<intrbiz> nor to charge VAT
<diddledan> they can still choose to register if they want to tho
<ali1234> no, countries with a turnover less than Â£81k are exempt from VAT IN THE UK
<diddledan> there's just no requirement
<ali1234> they still have to pay VAT in other countries if they sell there
<diddledan> ali1234, NOW they do. they didn't before the new rules
<ali1234> no, those are the OLD rules
<intrbiz> prior to this change a UK company paid UK VAT regardless of who they sold too
<bashrc> I thought that was the case
<ali1234> the NEW rules are the same, except instead of having to register for VAT in every where you sell to, now you just make one payment to HMRC
<intrbiz> the new rules are you have to charge the VAT rate of the 'country of supply'
<bashrc> sounds ok
<ali1234> intrbiz: no, those are the old rules too
<bashrc> less bureaucratic
<ali1234> intrbiz: the difference is who you pay it to
<intrbiz> yes, I was just getting to that
<bashrc> if I were a business I'd rather pay tax to HMRC that $someothercountry
<ali1234> exactly
<intrbiz> the VAT MOSS scheme handles paying the VAT for you
<ali1234> the only practical change is that HMRC can actually do something if you don't pay, where as foreign countries could not, so nobody ever paid
<intrbiz> the HMRC distribute to the countries
<intrbiz> the real change, is a requirement for all busiensses to submit returns from now on
<bashrc> seems reasonable
<ali1234> again, those businesses would already have been required to submit returns
<ali1234> the difference is that previously they would have had to submit returns to a foreign country's tax system
<ali1234> now they only have to send them to HMRC
<intrbiz> the concern of the small business lobby, is that small businesses now have to submit returns
<intrbiz> and that is too much papper work
<ali1234> again, small businesses already had to submit returns
<bashrc> sounds like no biggy to me
<intrbiz> not entirely sure I agree with that myself
<intrbiz> ali1234: a small business didn't need to submit a VAT return before these changes
<ali1234> i recommend anyone adversely affected by the new rules just sell their digital product for bitcoins on tor
<intrbiz> it won't be long before they attempt to tax BC
<ali1234> yeah good luck with that
<intrbiz> won't stop them trying
<zmoylan-pi> the forms for that will be interesting, it won't accept pirateKing997 as my name... :-)
<intrbiz> :)
<awilkins> zmoylan-pi, That's not your Bitcoin name. Your BC name is just a public key
<awilkins> TBH a public key is a FAR more unique and non-fakeable way of identifying yourself
<zmoylan-pi> but the forms will want a name for the paperwork and some people are really attached to their handles/nicks
<awilkins> Use the GPG words version of your key fingerprint :-)
<bashrc> bitcoin is a public ledger
<awilkins> Yes, yes it is
<awilkins> Basically, it's a very democratic bank
<bashrc> indeed
<awilkins> A bank is a private ledger
<awilkins> Security is done by keeping the plebs away from it
<awilkins> Whereas with bitcoin security is through consensus
<zmoylan-pi> that makes the assyrian empire look stable...
<awilkins> Main problem with Bitcoin is it doesn't do instant transactions
<awilkins> And won't scale
<bashrc> the block chain is really bloated
<awilkins> To do small payments quickly you need some kind of escrow broker that will sign off on small transactions quickly
<awilkins> Like a short-usage credit card that you top up from your main BTC wallets
<awilkins> Of course, that broker would need to be trusted and have a lot of infrastucture... hey, it's Visa
<ali1234> there is no reason not to accept 0 conformation payments for small transactions
<ali1234> nobody is going to steal 1 million cups of coffee from you
<awilkins> True, but a million people might
<zmoylan-pi> that's only 100,000 starbuck coffees... :-)
<ali1234> if you have 1 million customers you can set up your own prepayment system
<awilkins> I rather like NFC payment
<awilkins> That works for sums up to Â£20 in the UK with no online transaction
<awilkins> Don't know what the trust arrangements there are, but it needs a wireless smartcard, so there's crypto involved
<ali1234> the trust arrangements are any payment under Â£20 will be authorized
<awilkins> Oh, and you can charge any amount at all if it's non-UK currency (not sure if they are going to fix that loophole...)
<mapito> film done;]
<mapito> equalizer was pretty cool
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-19
<mapps> hm
<bashrc> morning
<plasmaxbox> man what the hell
<plasmaxbox> sudo fsck -b 98304 -L bad-blocks /dev/sda
<plasmaxbox> fsck from util-linux 2.20.1
<plasmaxbox> e2fsck 1.42.9 (4-Feb-2014)
<plasmaxbox> fsck.ext2: Bad magic number in super-block while trying to open /dev/sda
<zmoylan-pi> not good
<plasmaxbox> nope
<zmoylan-pi> backup?
<plasmaxbox> will not work on any supa block its my cloud nas drive
<plasmaxbox> sudo e2fsck /dev/sda
<plasmaxbox> e2fsck 1.42.9 (4-Feb-2014)
<plasmaxbox> ext2fs_open2: Bad magic number in super-block
<plasmaxbox> e2fsck: Superblock invalid, trying backup blocks...
<plasmaxbox> e2fsck: Bad magic number in super-block while trying to open /dev/sda
<awilkins> That's not a happy filesystem
<plasmaxbox> Model: ATA WDC WD30EFRX-68E (scsi)
<plasmaxbox> Disk /dev/sda: 3001GB
<plasmaxbox> Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B
<plasmaxbox> Partition Table: gpt
<plasmaxbox> Number  Start   End     Size    File system  Name     Flags
<plasmaxbox>  3      15.7MB  528MB   513MB                primary
<plasmaxbox>  1      528MB   2576MB  2048MB  ext3         primary  raid
<plasmaxbox>  2      2576MB  4624MB  2048MB  ext3         primary  raid
<plasmaxbox>  5      4624MB  4724MB  99.6MB               primary
<plasmaxbox>  6      4724MB  4824MB  101MB                primary
<plasmaxbox>  7      4824MB  4826MB  1049kB               primary
<plasmaxbox>  8      4826MB  4828MB  2097kB               primary
<plasmaxbox>  4      4828MB  3001GB  2996GB  ext4         primary
<awilkins> plasmaxbox, Whoa, hold on
<awilkins> You're trying to fsck the whole disk
<ali1234> fsck on /dev/sda?
<awilkins> fsck the partitions, not the whole disk
<ali1234> the partition table appears to contain nonsense anyway
<ali1234> likely mangled by previous fsck attempts
<awilkins> I dunno, I've seen some pretty stupid looking partition tables that worked just fune
<awilkins> That one is a bit wacky though
<ali1234> partitions beyond the end of the disk though?
<awilkins> Ah yes
<ali1234> last time i tried that i heard the read head slamming against the side of the case
<awilkins> That's pretty screwed up
<plasmaxbox> its gpt system and has a raid on the first 2 parttions
<awilkins> Ok, so partitions 1 and 2 might still be OK <cross fingers>
<awilkins> But you're running fsck against the whole disk as a block device, which isn't going to work
<ali1234> oh wait, those values are MB not GB
<awilkins> /dev/sda1 not /dev/sda
<ali1234> that's even more bizarre, but whatever
<awilkins> Yeah, that last partition is pretty big
<awilkins> Why the tiny 2GB RAID?
<plasmaxbox> https://drive.google.com/?authuser=0#folders/0B_6OlQ_H0PxVRXF4aFpYS2dzMEE
<plasmaxbox> it runs arm linux
<awilkins> Are  1 and 2 mirrors of the same filesystem?
<plasmaxbox> ive done the hole thing the disk f/s is intact
<awilkins> Or are they different file systems?
<plasmaxbox> awilkins, indeed
<awilkins> RIght, so there will be another device that is NOT a raw disk that represents that filesystem (if it's mounted)
<awilkins> Doing operations on one half of a RAID mirror will screw it up
<awilkins> do `mount -l `
<plasmaxbox> no matter its screwed anyway
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<plasmaxbox> i have the img file to replace the hole disk setup anywho
<plasmaxbox> it just has bad blocks
<plasmaxbox> and i cant update it
<ali1234> then you can't use an image file
<ali1234> what you need to do instead is tell the HD to reallocate the bad blocks
<knightwise> hey everyone :)
<davmor2> Morning bigcalm
<davmor2> morning knightwise
<davmor2> morning everyone else
<knightwise> Could I have your opinion on something ?
<davmor2> No
<davmor2> :)
<knightwise> I would like to setup an owncloud server ,but i'm not sure what the best way to go is.
<knightwise> I have a router from my ISP,
<knightwise> and it does NAT and hands out 192 range addresses
<knightwise> because i don't trust them I have my own router setup behind it , behind which I have my personal network 172 *** range
<knightwise> Now I want to run owncloud as a vm on my home server (in the 172***) range
<bashrc> there is an Owncloud variant of Freedombone
<knightwise> This server has 2 network cards. (one Wifi , one wired)
<knightwise> The wired one is connected to the 172*** network
<knightwise> would it be better to : A
<foobarry> has anyone had  recruiter emails from google lately?
<knightwise> Host the Owncloud machine on a vm in the 172*** network and forward a port from my router
<davmor2> foobarry: no
<ali1234> foobarry: i had one about 4 months ago
<foobarry> i wondered what the text in the email was,
<foobarry> do they copy paste the same guff every time?
<knightwise> OR to connect up the second network card of my server to the 192*** network and connect the Owncloud VM via that card.
<ali1234> hang on
<knightwise> (making my server multihomed but NOT forwarding any ports through my router)
<bashrc> knightwise: see the install_owncloud function to get some idea of how to configure it with nginx https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bashrc/freedombone/master/install-freedombone.sh
<ali1234> foobarry: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9568144/
<bashrc> I had a Google recruiter email about a year ago. If they had sent it years earlier I would have paid attention, but I don't have much interest in them now and am becoming more anti-Google
<davmor2> knightwise: just see if their router has a dmz if it does point it to your router, then on the dmz for your router point it to the server you want to run own cloud on
<foobarry> ali1234: thanks. thats a different text.
<knightwise> so its safer to do a double nat then to multi home my Server to connect the Owncloud VM directly to the 192 network ?
<foobarry> i think the google emails are just invitation to apply
<foobarry> rather than invitation to interview
<foobarry> hence the same chance as applying "cold"
<foobarry> i have a family, so i try to be productive between 9-5 and then go home
<foobarry> so working at google probably wouldn't fit that idea
<bashrc> do Googlers not work 9-5?
<knightwise> bashrc : i'm installing Owncloud from a Turnkey Vm.
<foobarry> its probably frowned upon
<knightwise> bashrc Google is the nicest looking concentration camp workplace there is
<foobarry> from my previous years in the city, i used to work much longer than contracted hrs
<awilkins> I bet they have an opt-out-of-European working time directive clause in the contract
<foobarry> especially when food is prvoided onsite
<awilkins> Food, laundry, massages
<awilkins> THere were googlers who took to living in the car park in an RV
<foobarry> breakfast lunch and tea
<awilkins> The only thing they couldn't get was shampoo
<bashrc> I don't disagree with Google's workplaces - they are apparently quite cushy - it's more that I don't like the spying business model, the total lack of interest in securing email, the "real names" debacle and such
<foobarry> meh
<awilkins> If I was younger, and if there was still a chance of big fat stock options, I'd go for it
<foobarry> ethically i am ok with google.
<awilkins> But there isn't anymore. No more tales of company massage therapists that got millions in stock
<foobarry> not ok with cig and gambling companies
<bashrc> I don't htink I'd want to be a cog in the spy machine
<foobarry> i'd even work for gchq if they paid more than pittance. i hear its worse than som epublic sector roles
<knightwise> Any final opinions on my setup ? Do I Forward a port to my owncloud VM in my LAN , or Do I Multi Home my VM Hypervisor to have one card in my LAN and one card in my DMZ ?
<foobarry> when i've been the all knowing sysadmin in medium sized business, i've been the spy
<foobarry> in effect, since i had control over internet and email data
<foobarry> thats the sysadmins job :D
<awilkins> My old office (gov org, but not any kind of high-security place) was snooping everything
<awilkins> I mean EVERYTHING - MITM SSL proxy with locally install root CA
<bashrc> personally I wouldn't want to sell out like that, but everyone has their own beliefs/priorities
<awilkins> Internal chat server
<awilkins> And the icing on the cake, they were running all our phone calls through a SIGINT program
<foobarry> depends on yr def of selling out
<foobarry> my wife would think working at a newspaper (partic. the guardian) is selling out
<awilkins> Why particularly the Guardian?
<awilkins> I would have thought that was the least odious?
<foobarry> some personal reasons involving some spiteful libel involving a family member that couldn't be fought
<foobarry> and also their world view stinks a bit
<foobarry> as do all newspapers
<awilkins> Occupational hazard really. Ex-wife is a paediatric oncologist. Sees scary childhood illness behind every sniffle.
 * knightwise loves Xforwarding
<directhex> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRxcSNaVCPA
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Underdog Day! :-D
<nigelb> I need a JamesTait API.
<nigelb> to tell me which day it is :D
<JamesTait> nigelb, I'm hoping to implement a REST API over the Christmas period. ;)
<nigelb> :D
 * awilkins may get as far as REST
<JamesTait> awilkins, I'm sincerely hoping I make it that far.
<plasmaxbox> sudo fsck -L baddbadd /dev/md127
<plasmaxbox>  booo
<bigcalm> directhex: nice vid
<bigcalm> The bass sounds good with my soundbar :)
<JamesTait> jamestait.rest(days=17)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> bigcalm: I thought you weren't allowed a soundbar
<zmoylan-pi> he told them it was a defective toblerone :-P
<bigcalm> davmor2: not in the sittingroom. I have one in my office
<davmor2> bigcalm: man you need help if you can't convince the woman you love to move it into the livingroom
<bigcalm> Wah, I'm keeping my soundbar
<awilkins> Does it provide good positional separation for games
<awilkins> What I want in a sound system ; 1) Good 3D positional location  2) Can plug in a headset without crawling around the back of the PC
<awilkins> (before you say "plug it into the front panel" the front panel sockets have TERRIBLE crosstalk with the motherboard traces)
<bigcalm> I just listen to music on mine and it's connected via fibre optic
<awilkins> I think I have a FO connector
<awilkins> There are gaming peripheral companies selling soundbars...
<awilkins> Which probably means they are not very good soundbars with a pretty logo...
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> instagram has had an instapurge - apparently people who paid for subscribers are angered at the loss of subscribers they paid for
<DJones> ....people pay to be spammed/spam other people....?
<bashrc> sadly, paying for subscribers/followers/likes seems to be a thing
<bashrc> hence unpopular organisations can appear popular online
<diddledan> bashrc, and celebrities
<bashrc> yes
<diddledan> justin beiber lost 3.5million subscribers overnight
<bashrc> :)
<DJones> Some people are just mugs
<diddledan> like justin beiber - believing those 3.5 million were real people
<diddledan> I mean does he really think he's popular enough to have that many in the first place?
<diddledan> I really shouldn't be mean about him, but he is a moron afterall
<DJones> I doubt it, probably doesn't even know what instagram is, just pays a PR Manager to spam his face everywhere
<diddledan> I don't even get what it is he's supposed to be famous for
<awilkins> "Singing", allegedly
<awilkins> I think he's supposed to be famous because his sponsors paid heavily to make it happen
<awilkins> Maybe Miley Cyrus' meltdown is basically her bid for freedom
<awilkins> If she's no longer commercially viable she can relax with her millions
<diddledan> if miley is no longer viable it's her own doing by trying to be "outragous"
<DJones> Egg throwing, drink driving, taking drugs, resisting arrest, dangerous driving
<DJones> Basically being a pratt
<diddledan> she was fine when she was owned by disney because they wouldn't let her go off the rails
<diddledan> then she decided to dress like a prostitute and seduce men old enough to be her grandad live on stage
<DJones> diddledan: That'll have changed now, don't forget they've just bought the rights to a cold blooded murder...Han shot first :)
<diddledan> lol
<awilkins> Disney doesn't have a good record for sane child stars
<awilkins> Miley. Lindsey.
<diddledan> I'm not sure how I feel about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11VGDAOVEag
<DJones> Heh, googling "disney stars gone bad" brings this up http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2014/06/13-disney-stars-gone-wild-when-good-kids-go-bad/
<awilkins> Britney. Zac.
<diddledan> wow that picture of lindsey is bad
<diddledan> she looks ancient
<awilkins> She's the one I actually think is the biggest shame. Wasn't a terrible actress
<diddledan> dear god, number 9 in the list
<bashrc> Are there any Disney child stars who remained sane?
<diddledan> brian bonsall
<awilkins> There's another article for ones that didn't go mad
<awilkins> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/03/good-disney-stars_n_4538410.html
<DJones> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/03/good-disney-stars_n_4538410.html
<awilkins> heheheh
<DJones> Was just looking at that
<DJones> Its interesting that all the stars going bad/not going bad are from the late 80's/90's and onwards
<ali1234> disney only made cartoons before that
<DJones> Good point, that said, even the cartoon voices went bad, Peter Pan's voice ended up a drug addict & in jail and died young due to effects of long term drug abuse
<DJones> Not just a new phenomenan anyway, probably just a case of a lot of people in the public life getting taken along & losing track of whats important
<DJones> ali1234: Did you see the video of Notch's new house
<DJones> Spending his Microsoft money http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/132105-take-a-look-inside-the-70-million-la-mansion-minecraft-paid-for-it-ll-blow-you-away
<ali1234> yeah but nobody would recognise the peter pan voice actor if you put their picture on a website so.......
<DJones> Can't argue with that
<ali1234> i wouldn't buy that house
<ali1234> it's like a car showroom
<DJones> It looks nice, but a bit too "shiny" for my liking
<ali1234> i mean, i might buy it as an investment, but i wouldn't live in it
<ali1234> i would rent it out to rockstars with more money than sense
<DJones> I don't think I'd let rockstars in without a very large security deposit to cover the cost of repairs when they leave
<ali1234> that goes without saying
<ali1234> that's where you'd make most of the money
<DJones> 3 month rental, 9 month rebuild period and start again
<ali1234> i reckon you oculd turn it around faster than that
<ali1234> i mean you can pretty much remove the windows and just sweep everything outside and off the cliff
<DJones> :)
<diddledan> I think I might pop over the cafe and order a burger and chips
 * diddledan like having a cafe over the courtyard from me
<brobostigon> :)
<awilkins> Man likes his Bond. And jellybeans.
<awilkins> Is that a Rolls Royce like Goldfinger has in his garage?
<diddledan> sweet
<diddledan> my boss decided I was worth a bonus
<diddledan> I wasn't expecting one because I'm freelance
<awilkins> Probably more likely to get one because you're freelance
<awilkins> Don't have to give bonuses to the wage slaves, they get to _keep their job_ that's their bonus
<diddledan> teehee
<popey> Morning all.
<bashrc> morning popey
<foobarry> tried making a tree: http://imgur.com/kebjMDv
<foobarry> relevant since it's made of of copper from cat5 cable
<foobarry> covered in plaster, then painted
<ali1234> was expecting a christmas tree
<foobarry> sorry to disappoint :D
<ali1234> what is that green stuff?
<foobarry> woodland scenics foliage.
<foobarry> its part done
<foobarry> gonna fill it out properly but the glue is not very sticky
 * popey just got a fruit hamper in the post \o/
<popey> (also contains booze)
<bashrc> nice
<foobarry> gonna add the tree to my dio http://imgur.com/bs52EiU
<foobarry> popey: from an admirer?
<bashrc> So are UbuntuPhones going to be shipping in 2015?
<DJones> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/12/bq-ubuntu-phone-launches-in-europe-this-february
<popey> from my dads widow
<foobarry> thats nice
<popey> yeah, fresh stuff for mulled wine recpipe too
<popey> -typo
<diddledan> popey, window?
<diddledan> bad typo if so :-p
<diddledan> your dad might wonder why you've suddenly killed him off
<diddledan> microsoft's latest communications seem to echo google's material styling
<diddledan> I wonder who was first
<diddledan> seems bold colours and solid blocks are the rule du jour
<diddledan> rounded corners seem to have been forgotten
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30539198
<dvrr> how to redirect  example.com to www.example.com ubuntu   please guide me
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> you don't own example.com
<diddledan> and you need to specify what you want to be redirected
<MartijnV1S> who? what?
<diddledan> i.e. what protocol
<diddledan> yes, and as MartijnV1S asks, who do you want to redirect
<MartijnVdS> I think I'm only seeing one side of a conversation
<diddledan> oh
<diddledan> [15:23:42] <dvrr> how to redirect  example.com to www.example.com ubuntu   please guide me
<diddledan> that's what I'm replying to
<diddledan> do you have him ignored?
<diddledan> it wouldn't surprise me if you do
<dvrr> example.com some functionalities  not working
<diddledan> dvrr, you don't own example.com
<dvrr> no
<dvrr> example
<diddledan> dvrr, so you can't do anything with it
<dvrr> in mydomain   with out  www  some functionalities  not working
<dvrr> tomcat  server
<diddledan> dvrr, I think you need to find a document that explains how to ask for help
<diddledan> dvrr, this is a good document: http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
<ali1234> duh, it's an example
<diddledan> dvrr, in response to my assumption that you want some http page to redirect to another http page then you need to return a response code of "301" or "302" to the browser from the server/app
<ali1234> http://serverfault.com/questions/262927/apache-tomcat-url-without-app-name
<diddledan> IMO obscuring details of a request for help is never useful - the only time it is ok to do so is when removing a password or other credentials that are supposed to be secrert
<diddledan> domain names are public so there's no reason to keep them secret
<diddledan> if you're worried about them being logged in a public forum then too late. they're in whois already.
<MartijnVdS> also explain what you've already tried
<MartijnVdS> and what the effect was (and waht you expected it to do)
<diddledan> what I expected it to do: "not fail"
<diddledan> :-p
<TwistedLucidity> Why come to an Ubuntu forum to get help with Apache (Java) Tomcat.....?
<ali1234> "hi, how do i make my website work when i got to example.com instead of www.example.com. i tried going to example.com but it didn't work. i expected it to work"
<diddledan> ali1234, that's a completely unhelpful question
<ali1234> "my website uses apache tomcat"
<ali1234> this is exactly the question that was asked, and it's enough information to give a partial answer
<TwistedLucidity> You put an Apache server in front of Tomact and have it re-write the URL. <- One way
<ali1234> TwistedLucidity: right, and that's exactly what the stack exchange question i posted says
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Ha ha ha! Not read it yet, just went with the most obvious answer
<TwistedLucidity> It's one of these things. It's very easy, but can get very complicated depending on how things are set-up.
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: They're in whois with your home address too, unless you're using domain privacy
<ali1234> unless you are working on someone else's server
<TwistedLucidity> Or a company
<diddledan> yes, this is true - and expands my point
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: That too. "Sure, I can fix that. Pay me $quillions"...5 minutes later..."Uh, IRC peeps who do I...?" :-)
<diddledan> adele dazeem and some bubbles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bbuBubZ1yE
<diddledan> .. and some dancing kids
<daftykins> closed it :P
<diddledan> dammit, I'm sat in the dark again
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> no sign of my Sopranos bluray set yet
<daftykins> how will i have fun with makemkv over the Christmas period if it doesn't arrive in time? ;)
<diddledan> :-p
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30555997
<diddledan> popey, I've been waiting for a linkable story about that
<awilkins> Hold on, didn't I see something earlier that said that they DIDN'T have evidence that NK did it?
<diddledan> popey, rory cellen jones tweeted earlier but the beeb hadn't written it up
<bashrc> I think it's very unlikely to be NK. The trolls know that if they push certain buttons US bigwigs go insane
<diddledan> "White House spokesman Josh Earnest told reporters US officials had held daily discussions about the Sony cyber-attack and were considering an "appropriate response"."
<bashrc> I think it's more likely to be Anonymous or a related group trolling Sony
<ali1234> the sheer volume of data indicates an inside job
<diddledan> ali1234, several security bloggers have suggested that as a theory too
<bashrc> more money for cybercommand?
<diddledan> I say we should declare cyber-war
<diddledan> I want there to be hackers in a darkened bunker furiously typing at keyboards in attempt to defend in real-time as well as launch cyber-nukes
<bashrc> heh
<intrbiz> ali1234: or just a totally negligent piss poort job at security
<ali1234> my guess would be NK sleeper agents infiltrating corporate IT
<bashrc> what you mean is military personnel who have been trained to use metasploit
<diddledan> intrbiz, I think piss poor security has been overshadowed by the sheer volume of exfiltrated data
<diddledan> bashrc, yeah
<intrbiz> diddledan: indeed
<bashrc> yes, hte biggest foe here is really just Sony's security cluelessness
<ali1234> if it actually was a sleeper then they would know, but they wouldn't tell you
<ali1234> mainly cos the guy would now have mysteriously vanished
<awilkins> Naah, for my money it's another Bradley or Snowden
<ali1234> but tracking through employee records takes time
<diddledan> bashrc, there obviously needs to be an underground movement of civilian hackers living in abandoned warehouses equipped with high-end computer equipemnt and internet links who are working to prevent both sides from killing normal people
<bashrc> I suspect that whoever is behind it is just playing the NK angle for the lulz
<diddledan> the said warehouses need to be wired to self-destruct, obviously
<awilkins> I bet the whole naked actresses thing was just a sysadmin at Apple who had access to their cloud storage and a penchant for naked actresses
<ali1234> the FBI wouldn't say it's definitely NK if they had zero evidence
<ali1234> they are not politicians
<bashrc> they wouldn't say there were WMD if they had zero evidence either
<ali1234> plus nobody actually wants to start a war with NK, there's no point
<awilkins> Was just going to say that. Oh snap.
<awilkins> WTH...  no point to war?
<diddledan> bashrc, they had evidence provided by the security services - the evidence was false
<awilkins> Of course there are people that want to start a war with NK
<awilkins> Or anyone
<diddledan> "sexy evidence"
<ali1234> no, there arent, not unless you are a crazy conspiracy theorist
<diddledan> I want to take evidence to bed
<awilkins> It's not crazy at all
<awilkins> There's always a motive for war - people make lots of money
<ali1234> they wouldn't make lots of money in a war against NK
<awilkins> Of course they would
<diddledan> the government won't
<awilkins> Much of the money is made just supplying combat troops with the things they need to have a base
<ali1234> no it isn't. the money is made rebuilding the country afterwards
<bashrc> money goes round in a circle between government and subcontractors
<awilkins> NK is already broken
<ali1234> if the country has no money and no natural resources that isn't possible
<diddledan> or in this case, it wouldn't be REbuild, just build
<diddledan> the only infrastructure in NK is government self perpetuation
<diddledan> the civil society doesn't have squat
<bashrc> It's hard to know what capability NK had, but they don't seem very technologically sophisticated in terms of internet
<awilkins> CIA world factbook on NK : mining (coal, iron ore, limestone, magnesite, graphite, copper, zinc, lead, and precious metals)
<awilkins> There must be a load of underexploited resources there
<ali1234> i don't see oil in that list
<ali1234> the rest are meh
<ali1234> not to mention that war against NK would really piss off china
<awilkins> They don't export or produce oil or natural gas
<ali1234> and you don't want to go there
<awilkins> Doesn't mean there isn't any
<ali1234> the US isn't going to invade a country on the basis that they don't know for sure there's no oil under it
<diddledan> surely they wouldn't invade if they were sure, would they? :-p
<ali1234> north korea basically only exists because it is incredibly inhospitable and nobody else wants it
<awilkins> Invading countries on the basis of oil wasn't for the oil
<awilkins> It was to stop them trading oil in Euro
<bashrc> Trying to invade NK would be dumb. They failed the last time
<awilkins> Iran makes noises about trading oil in Euro - OH suddenly the US hates you again
<awilkins> If people start wanting the value back for all those dollars they trade oil with, the US is stick-a-fork-in-it done
<awilkins> Iraq was nothing special in terms of oil production, but Saddam wanted to trade it for Euros
<diddledan> http://jalopnik.com/dopey-old-couple-almost-dies-after-13-hours-trapped-in-1672832892
<diddledan> why does the bbc news homepage not provide any way to get a live stream of news24?
<ali1234> it does
<diddledan> where?
<ali1234> right on the front page
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/ on the right
<ali1234> "LIVE BBC News Channel"
<diddledan> nope
<ali1234> it probably thinks you aren't in the uk
<awilkins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/
<diddledan> awilkins, that's not live
<awilkins> Says 1724
<awilkins> IT's about a minute behind by my clock
<diddledan> err. all I get is a listing of videos and it autoplays "one-minute world news"
<awilkins> Guess it thinks you're a forner then
<diddledan> which is .. 1 minute .. not live
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/atanas/status/545681872333078528/photo/1
<DJones> diddledan: I saw that earlier today, google.co.uk puts convert to mp3 in itunes in 3rd place with no mention of pdf
<ali1234> okay this is really impressive: i can now detect if user unplugs the controller while in game, pause the game, and wait for them to plug the controller back in and press start, for multiple players simultaneously
<ali1234> and they can also press start on any controller than isn't already in use
<diddledan> you probably saw this already, but: http://gizmodo.com/nasa-emailed-a-new-wrench-to-the-iss-1673213597
<m0nkey_> Heh, did you know what was the first part they printed?
<m0nkey_> A replacement part for the printer
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> was it broken?
<zmoylan-pi> in defiance of all logic it was shipped with one part too few? :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, it was ikea
<diddledan> microsoft are the good guys in this: http://www.kitguru.net/gaming/security-software/brendan-morgan/hello-this-is-microsoft-suing-tech-support-scammers/
<diddledan> I'm glad they're taking legal action
<diddledan> I don't care what anyone thinks of microsoft, scammers duping your parents into giving their cc details is a bad thing no matter what operating system they use
<zmoylan-pi> is ms not responsible for the low level of security in their os?  nice to see them targeting scammers though
<diddledan> it's not a security issue - the scammers get the user to give them access
<zmoylan-pi> if the os were more secure they wouldn't have the whole security risks popping up on news making it easier for scammers
<zmoylan-pi> non techies always feel they're one click away from complete muck up on windows
<zmoylan-pi> also a lot of non techies... :-)
<diddledan> the security of windows has nothing to do with the media coverage. it's all about numbers - windows has many users, therefore there's more people doing bad things to windows than other systems, therefore more makes the news - severe problems in non-windows makes the news, too - poodle. heartbleed. bash. just this year. that is actually more newsworthy things that I recall for non-windows than for windows.
<ali1234> poodle?
<diddledan> ali1234, a different ssl bug to heartbleed - turn off ssl3 please.
<shauno> this year's been so weird that they had a nickname for 'grinch' before they had a bug  (and still don't have a bug ..)
<zmoylan-pi> humans are terrible at judging risks.  they see and hear problems with windows and assume all problems are with windows.  biggest os problems :-/
<diddledan> shauno, what's grinch?
<diddledan> ok, I found a google
<shauno> packagekit allows users to install a package without needing sudo
<shauno> (*if* they're logged in locally, are in the wheel group, and the package is in a trusted repo)
<shauno> which is both a) the latest vuln with a catchy nickname, and b) by design
<shauno> basically, someone found something which isn't actually a bug, and took it the PR-route first.  it's pretty funny :)
<ali1234> packagekit lets you install without sudo but it still asks for your password using pkexec
<ali1234> unless you configured it not to, but then you could also configure your user account to have root access
<diddledan> is pkexec effectively a cut-down sudo?
<ali1234> sort of
<ali1234> it is kind of like app armor with capabilities though
<ali1234> it's another example where unix user accounts just aren't good enough :P
<diddledan> teehee
<diddledan> touchÃ©
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I deserved that! :-D
<ali1234> well, it's true
<ali1234> that's why gksudo doens't ship any more
<ali1234> everything has to move to pkexec
<ali1234> for example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/1270090
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1270090 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "time-admin can not install ntp" [Medium,Confirmed]
<diddledan> I guess I'm just so used to the user-account way that I can't really appreciate how another system would work.
<ali1234> i just converted this from a crufty exec "gksudo synaptic --install <packages>" to using packagekit
<diddledan> I'm a closed-minded fool :-p
<ali1234> because gksudo isn't shipped any more, so it's been broken for ages
<diddledan> oh dear
<ali1234> only xubuntu still uses it though
<diddledan> ooh, the bug got some activity 7 days ago with a patch - maybe a dev will do an SRU
<ali1234> yeah that was me
<diddledan> ha
<diddledan> aha**
<diddledan> just waiting on the sponsors then - well done :-)
<ali1234> it's in the sponsor queue now. dunno if it will be SRU'd but should be fixed in the next release
<diddledan> might be worth checking if (I assume it does) it affects utopic and plop the utopic tag on to raise a bit of visibility
<ali1234> it definitely does
<ali1234> but it needs to go into vivid first before it can be SRU'd
<diddledan> there, I added utopic to the bug tags anyway :-p
<diddledan> I've just discovered the wordpress jetpack tie-in with wordpress.com - it's pretty sweet
<directhex> yeah, it's awesomne
<directhex> only site metrics plugin with 0 overhead
<diddledan> specifically the wordpress.com hosted dashboard is pretty sweet
<diddledan> I've been using jetpack's social sharing thing for some time, but just tried out the wordpress.com admin area
<diddledan> I think I'm using a couple other features but can't remember what they were=
<bigcalm> !info gpref
<lubotu3> Package gpref does not exist in utopic
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> you suck! :-D
<bigcalm> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=gperf says otherwise
<diddledan> that's because fingers
<bigcalm> Indeed
<DJones> bigcalm: gpref != gperf
<bigcalm> Quite, spelling fixes all
<diddledan> DJones, unless you're using php and it implicitly converts to int
<DJones> diddledan: Last programming I did was using cobol/dbase so probably not quite relevant
<diddledan> e.g. 0 + gpref == gperf (TRUE)
<diddledan> gpref + 0 == gperf (not sure)
<diddledan> try it and see
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> this isn't factually accurate: http://gaspull.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/teenage-brain-breakdown.jpg
<diddledan> the teenage male nerd thinks about females and female superheroes aggragely the same amount of time or more than the average teenage male thinks about females
<diddledan> aggregately**
<diddledan> speaking of which, I'm now thinking of female superheroes
<diddledan> thank you internet!
<intrbiz> diddledan: I must admit comicbooks are something I've never dedicated much brain power too, I guess I'm not an average nerd or an average male
<diddledan> intrbiz, me either. I think that's the difference between nerd and geek?
<diddledan> I self ascribe to geekdom
<intrbiz> diddledan: sounds plausable
<diddledan> at school everyone called me "boffin" tho, but I'm unsure where that falls on the spectrum
<intrbiz> diddledan: boffin sounds kinda cool, I have no issue with people calling me that
<intrbiz> diddledan: people just used to call me eccentric
<diddledan> lol
<intrbiz> well, the polite ones anyway
<mapps> hi all
<shauno> I always figured comic books were more an american thing
<intrbiz> possibly, japanese too?
<shauno> I mean they're not exactly clamoring to get the beano into the latest films
<zmoylan-pi> 2000ad was a great uk comic in 70s and 80s
<diddledan> shauno, the 90s had "dennis" which was terrible
<intrbiz> shauno: indeed, i guess UK comic books seem more about comedy, where as american comic books seem about superheros
<shauno> I think that's kinda cultural too
<shauno> they have a whole "if you try hard enough you'll be a millionaire" culure.  anyone can be the president, etc
<diddledan> if you try hard enough you can fly?
<diddledan> or.. if you try hard enough you can shoot frickin laser beams from your eyes?
<shauno> which is also why their poorer classes are so down-trodden.  they're so hooked on this dream that they'll be the next millionaire, that they vote in favour of the millionaires
<intrbiz> there is the concept of the 'american dream' dating back to the frist settlers
<shauno> I think it was a lot more true then though
<shauno> you want 50 acres?  go claim it.  you want gold?  go dig it.
<intrbiz> shauno: sure
<diddledan> want to be fireproof? just try harder.
<diddledan> :-p
<shauno> so uhm - someone's finally making an ubuntu phone?
<diddledan> bbq
<diddledan> as in a tasty family meal of burnt burgers
<diddledan> https://www.cloudflare.com/case-studies-christmas
<intrbiz> but will people buy it, that is the question
<shauno> I'm kinda tempted out of nosiness
<shauno> depends what the price with no contract is, because I don't intend on actually putting a sim in it
<diddledan> it's aparently a "mid-range" phone
<diddledan> shauno, it has two sim slots you can not put one into
<diddledan> this is funny: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanmillssecurity
<intrbiz> diddledan: however one is 2G only I believe
<diddledan> oh
<intrbiz> so 3G on one SIM, 2G on the other
<diddledan> oh dear, israel and hamas are at it again
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30558922
<shauno> 30558922nd war in the middle east?  I'm tempted to believe that url :)
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> there's only ever been 1 war in the middle east, it just has lulls and pauses
<intrbiz> sadly, with little end in site
<intrbiz> sight*
<diddledan> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5Pg30dCMAES113.jpg
<diddledan> I giggled: https://twitter.com/markjaquith/status/546083524449939456
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-20
<diddledan> yawn
 * Azelphur puts a sock in diddledans mouth
<Azelphur> I have returned from yankland \o/
<diddledan> what were you doing yanking?
<Azelphur> typical work trip, so Disneyland and parties.
<diddledan> gotcha
<Azelphur> x
<Azelphur> xD*
<diddledan> I missed a 12 hour minibus drive with work yesterday for their xmas do
<diddledan> they went to frogland and I didn't have a passyport
<Azelphur> oops :)
<diddledan> I wasn't the only one
<daftykins> morning o/
<diddledan> allo
<diddledan> time for the night-shift then
<daftykins> no passport!?
<daftykins> have you ever had one? :>
<daftykins> yep, i warn you i'm a tad merry though
<diddledan> I had one in the past but it expired
<daftykins> just had the first of my christmas do's
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> drunky dafty
<diddledan> or should that be dafty drunky
<daftykins> drunkykins
<Azelphur> yea, I've been in LA for the past 2 weeks, as I say did disneyland, a couple parties with a bunch of B-List models, chilling at my bosses mansion in Beverly hills, loads of restaurants, Dave and busters, nickel nickel, balboa island, etc etc. xD
<daftykins> Azelphur: wat
<diddledan> you lucky get
<daftykins> your boss in Beverley Hills O_O
<daftykins> you've been holding out on us!
<Azelphur> yea, there is nothing to complain about with this job
<diddledan> seriously, your boss has a mansion?!
<Azelphur> all of ^ was paid for by my boss too
<daftykins> cor la
<Azelphur> diddledan: yup
<diddledan> jeezas
<diddledan> no wonder they didn't argue about paying you in bitcoin - prolly a crime empire behind it :-p
<Azelphur> diddledan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z4snqdjbe4z0h2y/2014-12-09%2000.49.26.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> wat
<Azelphur> haha
<diddledan> seriously, way
<diddledan> wat*
<diddledan> that's not a mansion, that's a palace
<daftykins> wait a minute, the Azelphur i know uses owncloud 0o
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, it was very palace like.
<daftykins> :D
<Azelphur> daftykins: yea, I'm doing a release upgrade on my microserver so dropbox it is :)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> ok i'll let you off!
<diddledan> I want a microserver
<Azelphur> just fitted a SSD and 5TB drive I nabbed from USA for cheap :)
<diddledan> 5TB.
<diddledan> wat
<Azelphur> diddledan: was only $139
<diddledan> wat
<Azelphur> I managed to glide through customs while being over the duty free limit too lol
<diddledan> I think I need to find a boss who'll pay for me to go yanking so I can stock up on huge-ass drives
<Azelphur> yea, it was pretty cool
<Azelphur> I got a 500GB Samsung EVO for my laptop too
<diddledan> blackfriday in amazon uk had a 1TB EVO for cheap
<diddledan> I succumbed
<Azelphur> yea I went for the 500GB one, didn't really need a TB
<Azelphur> oh, and the company is buying me a Â£1.5k laptop, so that's cool too
<diddledan> aah
<Azelphur> basically, this job is good.
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> what do they have you doing, hacking the pentagon?
<daftykins> i was talking to a student from my old College who works with security in London now, he said he's found a umm, a crash with 'rm'
<Azelphur> diddledan: right now I'm working on an ATS
<zmoylan-pi> hacking the pentagon: step 1) email them a copy of vnc and setup instructions 2) you're done :-)
<daftykins> i forget the term but i'm a little too merry to remember it
<Azelphur> I went a bit nuts though, I think I spent my entire months salary pretty much on toys
<Azelphur> but, black friday + usa, have to take advantage of that
<diddledan> daftykins, "complete *uckup"?
<daftykins> he said he runs a fully up to date gentoo system (which you'll love, diddledan ) then that he was rm'ing off his flash drive and that something failed horribly
<diddledan> yey
<daftykins> so whether that pans out to something exploitable i don't know
<diddledan> methinks it's more likely an io error
<diddledan> you've found another dead drive
<daftykins> that did call to me as soon as he said external drive
<daftykins> argh i can't even remember the two words with which he said 'rm' failed though
<daftykins> ___ ___
<Azelphur> oh, in other shenanigans I also got to play with Google Glass
<diddledan> seriously, what do you do to everyone's drives to make them fail all the time?!
<Azelphur> oh and we got VIP seats to go see a recording of the big bang theory :P
<diddledan> wat
<diddledan> that completely takes the buscuit
<diddledan> NOT FAIR!
<zmoylan-pi> a panel beating hammer to a hard drive leaves no marks to invalidate the warranty
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> that sounds dangerous to the drive's health
<zmoylan-pi> well if you want to replace a wonky drive under warranty and they say it needs to be completely dead for it to be replaced...
<diddledan> I wonder if the oven is up to temp yet
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> could also plug it into 240v mains
<zmoylan-pi> that leaves scorch marks, don't ask how i know
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> though my favourite was the customer who shipped back a pc for repair after it had been underwater and had been rusting on journey for a day or so.
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: you fiend!
<diddledan> flickrgeddon is over
<diddledan> http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/flickr-ends-sale-of-prints-uploaded-under-creative-commons/
<zmoylan-pi> poor yahoo can't catch a break
<diddledan> indeed. I saw no issue with the idea whatsoever.
<daftykins> Azelphur: ermagerd BBT
<shauno> heh, we have a customer who completely submerged a 600kW UPS
<zmoylan-pi> as long as there was an easy way to opt out what was wroing with the idea?
<Azelphur> daftykins: yea, they did one of the song and dance things like the old call me maybe thing
<diddledan> the uploaders specifically chose not to use the NC variant of the license
<Azelphur> but, I don't see it on youtube anywhere, which is sad :(
<daftykins> Azelphur: wow, so taught the cast to dance 0o
<Azelphur> yea and the camera crew
<Azelphur> basically everyone
<daftykins> O_O
<diddledan> shauno, I'll bet that sparked a bit when it happened
<daftykins> i can imagine being a camera man and then "you have to learn to dance" ... "wat"
<diddledan> shauno, does your company's warranty cover floods?
<diddledan> surely it's an act of gord
<shauno> nope.  he's still using it, but the unit's no longer elligible for .. anything
<diddledan> wat
<diddledan> it still works?!
<zmoylan-pi> be a good doorstop
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, bit big
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, you might trip over it
<zmoylan-pi> that door ain't going nowhere
<zmoylan-pi> we used a full height 5mb hard drive from cpm computer for years till we sold it to customer to replace their damaged 5mb hard drive :-P
<zmoylan-pi> they really don't make them like they used to...
<shauno> lol .. "you want to buy my .. doorstop?  well, okay .."
<zmoylan-pi> by using it as doorstop it didn't seize up like they usually did. the vibrtations of door bouncing off it kept it working
<diddledan> my old college used old winchester hard drive platters as door stops in the computing department
<diddledan> as in the 24inch ones
<diddledan> (I think they're 24 anyway)
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the huge winchester disk packs from the dec i learned to program on
<diddledan> might have been 18
<diddledan> yeah those
<diddledan> the ones you put into the upright tumble dryer
<diddledan> https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/historydisplays/FifthFloor/MagneticDataStorage/DataStorageImages/DiskPacks/BurroughsDiskPack.jpg
<diddledan> similar to that
<diddledan> this puts the size into perspective: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/IBM_350_RAMAC.jpg
<diddledan> that's actually an ibm ramac
<diddledan> ah here we go: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Fotothek_df_n-10_0000117.jpg
<diddledan> that bit on the top is exactly the thing my college were using as doorstops, only without the plastic protective carry case
<diddledan> (I believe you took them out of the plastic to put them in the machine)
<zmoylan-pi> when a 5mb hard drive was more than a doorstop http://telstarlogistics.typepad.com/telstarlogistics/2010/01/on-air-freight-and-old-hard-disk-drives.html
<diddledan> wat
<Hornet> anyone here installed openjdk jre from scratch?
<Hornet> really need openjdk-8-jre-headless on my 14.04 server, and nobody is packaging it
<diddledan> not even webupd8?
<Hornet> iirc that pulls in all the X stuff?
<Azelphur> Hornet: nope, https://launchpad.net/~openjdk/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<Azelphur> although it doesn't look like they have builds
<daftykins> sounds like you must go oracle
<Hornet> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjdk-8/+bug/1341628
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1341628 in openjdk-8 (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging]openjdk-8 in 14.04" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<Hornet> various noise on there about it all
<Azelphur> Hornet: https://lists.debian.org/debian-java/2014/04/msg00003.html might be useful
<Hornet> I've been waiting ages and have given up now, might have to go to sodding fedora
<Hornet> that's not the headless one :\
<Hornet> and has issues in any case by the look of it
<Hornet> this is why I'm looking to build it myself, I really can't see an option otherwise
<Hornet> but frankly have less than no idea about how to do so
<diddledan> Hornet, it's all the related openjdk 8 packages including the headless: http://87.98.165.193/debian/openjdk-8u5-b13/openjdk-8-jre-headless_8u5-b13-1_amd64.deb
<Hornet> ...interesting
<diddledan> it's available as aptable repo: http://87.98.165.193/debian/repo/
<Hornet> if this is actually usable I'm amazed it's not mentioned on the bug thread
<Hornet> will give it a shot and see what blows up
<Hornet> many thanks
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30559169
<Hornet> looks like it wants to pull in all of x11-common
<Hornet> among other friends
<Hornet> The following NEW packages will be installed
<Hornet>   libxi6 libxrender1 libxtst6 openjdk-8-jre-headless x11-common
<m0nkey_> diddledan, netflix is the answer.
<Hornet> seems that's not what I thought it was, thankfully
<diddledan> m0nkey_, yeah someone twatted them earlier and they agreed with the suggestion
<Azelphur> so, interesting things. I have a Logitech Harmony remote, and I also have a cheap unbranded USB IR Receiver and remote. I want to make the Harmony do what the crappy remote does, any ideas?
<Azelphur> I can't find any make/model anywhere on the thing
<daftykins> err
<daftykins> with XBMC i've always gone by what irw reports
<daftykins> as a kind of generic template
<Azelphur> no the original crappy remote works fine, it seems to just emulate a keyboard for the most part
<Azelphur> it's getting the harmony to send the same stuff as the crappy remote that is the problem, because it wants a make and model for the remote
<Hornet> http://kodi.wiki/view/Keymap that's probably useful
<daftykins> oh keyboard ones, eww
<Hornet> I did a lot of research with my xbmc setup, so managed to get a remote that was OOtB perfect
<Hornet> for about a tenner from fleabay iirc
<Hornet> never had an issue
 * Azelphur stabs
<Azelphur> but XBMC isn't involved and has nothing to do with the question
<Azelphur> in fact I didn't even say XBMC XD
<Hornet> ...so what are you using it with, your coffee-machine?
<Azelphur> what I'm using it with isn't relevant, the question is how to program the harmony remote to act like the old crappy remote
<Hornet> well, you can't
<Azelphur> as no amount of fiddling with XBMC is going to fix ^
<Hornet> you can program what's recieving it to act differently, perhaps
<Hornet> but that depends on what it IS
<daftykins> nah i just said XBMC as it's my main experience with remotes, really
<diddledan> Azelphur, find a well-supported make and model on google and program the harmony to emulate that?
<Hornet> I read xbmc, didn't realise it wasn't Azelphur who introduced it though
<Hornet> anyway, xbmc has a whole load of research about remotes, what they do and how
<Azelphur> diddledan: I don't think the IR receiver will pick up on anything it doesn't recognise
<Hornet> so if you find the models on their wiki that would help I'm sure
<diddledan> ergh, that be annoying
<Azelphur> it doesn't flash its little LED if I use the harmony for other stuff
<Azelphur> so the harmony is a learning remote isn't it? It's supposed to be able to do this kind of thing :P
<Azelphur> woot, I remembered where the remote came from
<Azelphur> I think I might be able to solve it
<Azelphur> or not, looks like it isn't in Logitechs dropdown list, at least under the name I bought it as
<Azelphur> w00t got it to work, plugged it in and dmesg'd it, turns out its a xenta wireless receiver, a google for the product ID reveals an alternate brand name for the same hardware, the MS-Tech MC-80, which was present in Logitechs site \o/
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> i figured you'd already been down that avenue D:
<Azelphur> the dmesg thing didn't occur to me for no apparent reason
<Azelphur> 2 days later, I've nearly set up all the crap I bought on black friday.
<Azelphur> xD
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i got a switch, a microSD that's still in its' package and a powerline kit i tested
<Azelphur> just the sound bar and an ssd to go
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> \o/
<Azelphur> daftykins: I got a 5TB HDD, 500GB Samsung EVO, 120GB Crucial M4, Logitech Harmony 700, 2 chromecasts, a Sony Smartwatch 3 new case for my phone, and a new 7-port USB charger.
<Azelphur> </having money>
<daftykins> :)
<Azelphur> but nah it was all ridiculously cheap
<daftykins> i was amazed to see this Linksys 16 port gigabit switch for twice the price afterward, Â£100 instead of Â£49.99
<Azelphur> the 5TB was $139, the 500GB EVO was $189, Â£20 for the Crucial M4, $75 for the Logitech Harmony, $35 for the chromecasts, $200 for the SW3, case was free, and the 7 port was like $25.
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I almost bought an 802.11AC router but decided not to
<diddledan> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5RLRbNIQAAMrYh.jpg:large
<Azelphur> hehe
<diddledan> Azelphur, no video, but http://www.cbs.com/shows/big_bang_theory/news/1003613/
<Azelphur> diddledan: hehe I know...I was there ;)
<diddledan> yeah, I was just expanding on your comment above with actual documentary evidence
<diddledan> looks like that was posted about an hour ago
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> diddledan: I could give you loads of spoilers :P
<diddledan> heh
<diddledan> how many episodes did you see recorded?
<Azelphur> just one
<diddledan> aah
<Azelphur> but it isn't aired till the 15th :P
<diddledan> that's last week :-p
<Azelphur> no, Jan :P
<diddledan> oooh, jannywary
<diddledan> I really need to check this against a more recent version of wordpress - I've listed it as compatible up to 3.7.1 - we're on 4.1 now
<diddledan> https://wordpress.org/plugins/custom-menu-fields/
<diddledan> hmm, seems I've also got conflicting advice in the readme
<diddledan> in fact the description section's "getting the value" looks to be completely incorrect
<daftykins> misleading people? for shame, sir!
<diddledan> indeed
<diddledan> IFTFY
<diddledan> give it a mo to update
<diddledan> haha, cute: http://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=690b0543a813b0ecfc51b0374c0ce6c8275435f0
<diddledan> a 4yo committed to the linux kernel
<daftykins> little piece of news from this evening, i met the guy that called the ambulance for me and bought him a pint :) poor guy lost a pair of trousers to my blood apparently :(
<daftykins> apparently my blood patch stayed on the road for over a week :) pretty chuffed
<diddledan> I'm glad you're ok now
<daftykins> ty sir :)
<diddledan> is it me, or does this cat look like a zombie? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5RZBaxIgAEojT7.jpg:large
<daftykins> totally zombie-cat.
<daftykins> ok i have an engagement party to attend in... 7.5hrs
<daftykins> laters \o
<diddledan> tata
<diddledan> lol: https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10857947_1130053837024068_4177800206569031590_n.jpg?oh=d2c273827a5c437578b6aeb579ec8c51&oe=553842DB
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> zmoylan-pi,
<mapps> what was that show again..sorry man il make a note this time
<mapps> zmoylan-1i, >
<mapps> >
<mapps> ?
<diddledan> allo mapps
<foobarry> mehhhhhhh
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TheProphet[S]> Hi all
<brobostigon> hi TheProphet[S]
<foobarry> heh, chrimstas party season http://www.itv.com/news/london/2014-12-16/passengers-along-entire-platform-burst-into-song-and-belt-out-1980s-erasure-classic-while-waiting-for-tube/
<TheProphet[S]> I have Ubuntu 14.04 suddenly freezing quite often. I checked online and noticed it is a common problem. So far I found no solution though. Most people suggest to swap nvidia drivers to the proprietary tested, which I have, but the problem persists
<TheProphet[S]> It doesn't matter what I'm doing, it just freezes and I have to reset from the pc tower, nothing else works. When I reboot I have to go to recovery or the video card won't show anything on screen (the pc is connected via hdmi to the tv
<TheProphet[S]> I can't even access the tty
<TheProphet[S]> Perhaps I should try to reset grub, as I fiddled with that to restore Plymouth, and that didn't work either
<TheProphet[S]> I wanted the old style Linux boot splash, tux and text flowing
<TheProphet[S]> I don't see how grub would affect the system once it's booted though
<TheProphet[S]> The freeze happens after login, I can start some applications but after a while that's it, I have to hard reset
<TheProphet[S]> I spent all morning trying to solve this problem
<TheProphet[S]> I assume you never encountered this problem with your Ubuntu installations
<ali1234> i have seen a small increase in freezes recently
<ali1234> very much nvidia related
<TheProphet[S]> Froze again as I was installing gparted, I'm going to have to deal with broken packages too now :-(
<TheProphet[S]> Is there a way to determine the error?
<ali1234> just the usual
<TheProphet[S]> What happens exactly at the moment of freezing,
<ali1234> if it's nvidia problems what normally happens is the computer keeps running but the display just stops updating
<TheProphet[S]> So if I go to tty2, to which I already logged when the display was working, I should be able to reboot? Because if the computer works I can usually press the start physical button on the tower and reboot, but not in these cases. It seems it's not just the display that freezes, it's the entire system. Nothing works, not just visually
<ali1234> it depends how quick you are
<ali1234> once the display stops working other things will pile up behind it essentially
<ali1234> more and more stuff will start to deadlock because it is waiting on something else
<ali1234> these types of problems are nearly always caused by hardware failure though
<TheProphet[S]> You suggest the video card might be failing?
<ali1234> or power supply or motherboard
<ali1234> or anything else that contains capacitors really
<TheProphet[S]> I do get a strange error in Windows too
<TheProphet[S]> As I said the video card is connected through hdmi to a tv
<TheProphet[S]> In Windows the audio (coming from the video card in this case) fails, or the video does I'm not sure. When that happens I have to use the Jack from the motherboard for audio, and the hdmi audio doesnt respond anymore
<TheProphet[S]> Perhaps it's just the video card hdmi that is having issues
<TheProphet[S]> I'm going to connect the TV to the dvi output and see if I can replicate the error
<TheProphet[S]> If it works I'll try to connect the hdmi again but selecting the analog audio output
<TheProphet[S]> Instead of the hdmi
<TheProphet[S]> No freezing so far
<TheProphet[S]> I can't replicate the error with the DVi cable. I'm going to connect the hdmi cable now and see if by selecting the analog audio output I can replicate the error
<TheProphet[S]> It's working fine so far, no freezing, video through hdmi and audio through standard analogue output
<popey> yay! Something on my wishlist just dropped by 50% and camelcamelcamel told me \o/
<popey> â¹ out of stock
<foobarry> popey: what was it?
<foobarry> i wonder if there room in the market for a camel^2 to autobuy
<ali1234> why not go all the way and allow limit orders in both directions
<mapito> afternoon
<mapito> apprentice final tomorrow
<mapito> yay
<foobarry> to find out who is king of the numpties
<mapito> heh
<mapito> it is rather amusing how full of it they all are
<mapito> and like uh none of them are ever proposing anything 'new; .recruitment agency..wow groundbreaking..a restaurant etc
<mapito> boring..and uninteresting ..hardly innovative
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> its a poor programme really
<mapito> if they proposed anything really new innovative and cool fair enough
<mapito> but none do
<foobarry> the performance along the way is suddenly now irrelevant
<foobarry> used to be diffrerent when he would employ them
<mapito> and this Roisin..qualified accountant..high flyer etc..quits her 'high flying job' -- clearly cant hve been that high up why would u quit to come on a show yoiu may not win
<foobarry> she seems decent enough
<mapito> and her product was a ready meal thats healthy..claimed it's unique..but it wasnt and then after 3months she's burnt through all 250k LOL
<mapito> and was relying on getting bank loans of 500k
<mapito> yea but burnin through 250 and relying oin 500?
<mapito> l o l
<foobarry> M&S can just release that product next week
<mapito> yea]
<mapito> she was saying shed get it in a few stores it sells out then 100s
<mapito>  because eeryt5ing always goes to plan:)
<foobarry> not her money ;)
<foobarry> i'd love to blow 250k of sugars cash and fail
<mapito> lol
<mapito> siphon it into your own ac
<mapito> lol
<foobarry> watching snowman and snowdog with the kids
<popey> foobarry: a case
<popey> foobarry: ali1234 i recall someone setting up a bot that would buy random things under $5 from amazon and send them to him
<penguin42> an early xkcd story?
<penguin42> http://xkcd.com/576/
<Seeker`> hmm. Any bets on whether this Amazon order is actually going to be delivered today...
<penguin42> seems a bit late
<Seeker`> penguin42: just arrived
<penguin42> Seeker`: I guess they're very busy elves at the moment
<diddledan> lol @ xkcd link
<popey> someone did actually do that though
<popey> http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/21/amazon-shopper-bot/
<penguin42> nice
 * penguin42 sigh - just got a survey URL from ovo energy with my name, the service team leads name, my account number, customer ID, tarriff, call time, signup date (and something called AHI?) in the URL
<diddledan> penguin42, awesome
<diddledan> penguin42, is it anonymous?
<penguin42> diddledan: Haha I guess not
<crebley> Listening to Benji B, drinking vodka and installing Ubuntu. I guess that's a very small intersection on anyone's Venn diagram?
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/546400922965139457
<brobostigon> blackadder2, bbc2, 9:35. :)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-21
<shauno> curious.  what'd cause 'load' to go through the roof with idle procs
<penguin42> shauno: IO
<penguin42> shauno: Load is the number of processes that would like to run, irrespective of what's stopping them doing that
<penguin42> shauno: So a bunch of processes that would like to run but blocked on disk will cause the load to spike
<shauno> I think I have disk issues.  that's why the process table was confusing me
<penguin42> yeh, that would do it
<shauno> just spotted a disturbing amount of this in my logs; http://paste.ubuntu.com/9584865/
<penguin42> shauno: Merry xmas
<shauno> :)
<shauno> well the good news is I just need to shove a ticket in for it
<penguin42> shauno: That's definitely a bad disk, it's actually saying medium error as opposed to anything else
<shauno> right
<shauno> luckily it's a paired mirror, so it'll only be "inconvenient"
<penguin42> sure, if the other one keeps it's end of the bargain
<daftykins> shauno: smartctl -a /dev/sdx ?
<daftykins> oh it's RAID
<daftykins> sorry i'm pretty drunk.
<daftykins> :)
<shauno> yeah I was just looking at that.  smart's happy with the drive
<daftykins> may i see?
<daftykins> i'm kind of a hard disk killer XD
<shauno> heh
<shauno> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9584929/
<daftykins> ah friggin' seagates are evil to read SMART data of :>
<daftykins> 6736 reallocated sectors sir? that puppy is toast
<daftykins> line 67
<daftykins> shauno: she's dead, jim!
<shauno> yeah, I already put a ticket in
<daftykins> ah, hosted box?
<shauno> yeah, hetzner
<daftykins> good lord, i've been out drinking for 13 hours
<daftykins> a mates back over from Australia, for a local version of his engagement party
<diddledan> those error rates look scary (I have no idea whether they're nominal or not, but big numbers scare me anyway)
<daftykins> seagate are unfortunately ass-backwards when it comes to SMART data, so those big numbers for error rates are actually fine =|
<diddledan> -_-
<daftykins> but they also can show up as huge values when a disk truly is wonky
<daftykins> so yeah, i </3 Seagate
<diddledan> this is hours? 100712688140336
<diddledan> that's from total head flying hours
<daftykins> diddledan: !
<daftykins> diddledan: I'M FLYING!
<daftykins> sorry.
<diddledan> daftykins, no, you're high
<diddledan> daftykins, don't jump out the window!
<daftykins> it's ok i'm only on the first floor
<daftykins> also, don't do drugs and stay in school
<diddledan> \o/
<shauno> uff, rebuilding 3TB ..
<mapito> another day done
<mapito> ;]
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning everyon e
<popey> yo
<popey> knightwise: you bought a chromebook recently? which one?
<knightwise> Hey popey ,
<knightwise> the Acer C730 (chromebook 11Ã 
<knightwise> got it yesterday. (working on it right now)
<knightwise> but , popey , its a cute little device for the small amount of money you pay for it.
<popey> knightwise: is your main laptop broken?
<popey> whats the motivation for using a chromebook?
<zmoylan-pi> cheap? not paying windows tax? ssd from get go? happier with netbooks?
<knightwise> popey: no , I just wanted to play around with it a little bit.
<popey> zmoylan-pi: I mean, if you already have a laptop.
<hamitron> chrome is shiney
<knightwise> I need to do a workshop on cloud computing in a couple of weeks and since Chrome has been a great help in my 'cross platform workflow' I also wanted to play with the chromebook too
<popey> chromebooks worry me.
<knightwise> And its a handy cheap machine to chuck into my bag when I go out. (i have a 15 inch mbp that is just too expensive)
<popey> vendor lock in just like windows + microsoft office
<knightwise> popey: True, its a little bit of a lock in , but there are plenty 'non google' web services you can work with
<zmoylan-pi> my ancient netbook is starting to make funny sounds on startup so may be on way out.  looking at chromebooks in argos they look nice but thanks to windows panic over them their seem to be netbooks again so might go for one of those instead.  but that's because i prefer hd over ssd
<hamitron> more so tbh, at least with windows you can install libreoffice
<knightwise> (owncloud , shellinabox, etc)
<popey> its still chrome though
<popey> google ID
<knightwise> popey: true.
<knightwise> although you can use the device in Guest mode
<popey> doesn't save though?
<popey> and not what most people will do
<zmoylan-pi> you can run crouton on chromebook but every time you boot you have to select developer mode which would annoy me
<knightwise> true .. but giving up their freedom is their choice
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: you can also dual boot ubuntu on most chromebooks (see Acer 720)
<popey> right, but people in the free software community seem to be promoting chromebooks a lot
<knightwise> btw : Microsoft will be coming out with similar laptops with 8.1 at the same pricerange
<popey> they already did
<popey> HP have one
<zmoylan-pi> the chromebooks have a zen minimalism about them :-)
<popey> they do
<popey> they're rather nice devices
<knightwise> saw an 11 inch Toshiba I5 for 250 euros with 'microsoft 8.1 with bing' yesterday
<popey> some of them
<knightwise> next year is going to be very interesting
<popey> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/12/hps-fanless-2-2-pound-laptop-includes-broadwell-and-a-2560x1440-screen/
<knightwise> True , I like the simplicity of the OS.
<hamitron> this still tempts me: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191398987339?_trksid=e100084.m1843&_trkparms=clkid%3D2473023964625320656&_qi=RTM1967670#lo-descr
<popey> thats a nice device
<knightwise> I'm just finishing up my 'first impressions' article, i'll post it a little later today
<penguin42> popey: Oh that's nice
<popey> I can't imagine that microsoft tablet will ever get any software updates
<popey> I may be wrong
<popey> same for other intel based android tablets
<popey> they're made to a very low price point, get them out the door and forget about them
<popey> see also:- Hudl2
<foobarry> does cyanogen support hudl2?
<foobarry> or intel chips
<popey> dont think so
<directhex> intel windows tablets just get windowsupdate
<foobarry> meh
<penguin42> popey: They've got a chance of getting updates; it should be a lot less hastle to do the updates for them than ARM
<hamitron> popey, but that is a throwaway priced device
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> penguin42: sadly not the case
<popey> the intel bits are needed
<penguin42> popey: Why?
<popey> also, powervr
<penguin42> popey: Yeh I know they have powervr, but what else?
<knightwise> popey: Acer is bringing out the Iconia W8
<popey> there is some faff with the boot sequence
<knightwise> an 8 inch tablet with Windows 8.1 for 150 euros
<popey> i dont know the details, but AIUI it's not straightforward
<penguin42> popey: Hmm annoying
<popey> I'd be interested in AOSP on my hudl2
<directhex> do we even have root on hudl2 yet?
<directhex> or bootloader access?
<penguin42> popey: But still, the kernel mods for it should be a lot smaller than for an Android tablet
<popey> directhex: http://www.modaco.com/topic/373642-how-to-root-your-hudl-2/page-12
<popey> looong thread about it
<popey> but yes, he did I think
<directhex> is it dependable? last thread i saw was brick city
<foobarry> bet that tablet has poor battery life
<popey> yes, thats the only thread I've seen
<popey> the hudl2 isnt bad
<popey> 7-9 hours
<foobarry> i'm loking at the ebay one
<popey> right
<foobarry> ebay tablets are gernally bad news
<popey> I'd imagine they're all similar
<popey> dont buy it from ebay â»
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/664723-linx-7-windows-8-tablet-pc-linx7
<directhex> they're everywhere
<directhex> amazon had one in an xbox bundle
<directhex> afaik they're cheap at staples
<popey> that'll end soon I believe
<popey> Intel ending their subsidy of baytrail tablets
<directhex> http://www.staples.co.uk/tablets/cbs/428369.html
<popey> I doubt the hudl2 will ever see lollipop
<popey> Tesco don't really care, they're box-shifters
<knightwise> http://knightwise.com/the-acer-c730-chromebook-first-impressions/
<knightwise> the review is live :)
<popey> knightwise: that link is duff
<popey> (at the bottom of the article)
<hamitron> I just wish my nexus 7 worked better
<hamitron> :/
<popey> you copy/pasted a google link
<popey> hamitron: 2012?
<hamitron> yeh
<popey> I use mine all day every day
<popey> it's the second screen on my desk
<popey> it sits showing irssinotifier and pings me when I get email/tweet etc
<hamitron> I just find the wifi not as good as my phone
<popey> oh, not seen that
<hamitron> youtube always buffers and stuff
<ali1234> my 2012 got really slow
<ali1234> and crashy
<popey> yeah, mine is quite slow
<foobarry> my tablet is horrendously slow
<foobarry> and my wifes samsung
<ali1234> it's sad, it was really fast when new
<popey> i wiped and flashed lollipop on it, now it's slower
<foobarry> i factory reset the samsung, still slow
<popey> the 2012 nexus 7 has a known io issue
<ali1234> i hve not upgraded to lollipop but all the apps updated individually
<foobarry> low ram i think is an issue
<ali1234> i wiped cache partition and it helped a little bit
<foobarry> my wife does play some high ram games, but my tablet is just slooow all the time
<hamitron> I think my issues started when I upgraded to 4.4
<ali1234> yep same here
<foobarry> i wish android was adminable like linux
<popey> which one does your wife have foobarry ?
<popey> my hudl2 is my "main" tablet now.
<foobarry> galaxy tab 10.1 popey
<popey> obv being the newest, it's the fastest
<popey> but I love the screen size
<ali1234> i think i would actually like ubuntu touch on a tablet
<foobarry> i still have the touchpad hp
<ali1234> i wouldn't "touch" it for phone or desktop obv. :)
<hamitron> I'm tempted to try a stripped down android firmware
<hamitron> but never have the time
<foobarry> glaxy tab 10.1 has a weird defect where the screen shows an oily patch after a while
<hamitron> :/
<foobarry> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/369772/samsung-galaxy-tab-screens-marred-by-oil-slick
<popey> http://n1.nokia.com/en looks nice
<popey> another intel based tablet - apparently shipping with lollipop
<popey> might mean other tablets can get lollipop once that ships
<hamitron> I still can't get the hang of the interface on android
<hamitron> think I've used windows 8 and wp7/8 too long
<popey> I've not used Windows 8 or Windows phone at all
<popey> other than grabbing someone elses windows phone and swiping around a bit
<hamitron> right now I'll use anything really
<hamitron> main things holding me back are knowing what is happening at work (talk of us getting iphones)
<hamitron> and wanting a dual sim phone
<ali1234> get a moto g
<ali1234> they are super cheap, reasonably good, android 5.0, and dual sim
<hamitron> torn between lumia 630, moto g and Sparkle V
<hamitron> if I personally choose
<hamitron> suspect work are going to force me to use an iphone 4s
<ali1234> seems like an easy choice to me
<hamitron> my favourite is the lumia 630
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> but mostly because I use a lumia 710 and lumia 520 right now
<hamitron> that android one program sounds interesting
<ali1234> i've never heard of sparkle V but the name sounds a bit lame
<hamitron> haha, yeh
<hamitron> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Karbonn-Sparkle-Android-SIM-Free-Smartphone-Red/dp/B00PH3RPR6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419087533&sr=8-1&keywords=android+one
<ali1234> get the moto g instead of that it has much better specs
<popey> iphone 4s is getting a bit crusty
<hamitron> popey, yeh :/
<ali1234> http://www.gsmarena.com/karbonn_sparkle_v-6687.php http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_moto_g_dual_sim_%282014%29-6648.php
<popey> surprised if a company is dishing those out
<popey> hand-me-downs?
<hamitron> popey, site manager is looking at getting re-furbs
<hamitron> :/
<popey> i have a 4s I rarely use now, its a bit slow
<hamitron> problem is, my school uses some software that is iOS only
<popey> mind you mine has ios 8 on
<popey> but it runs out of RAM very quickly and kills off apps
<hamitron> oh dear
<popey> so when you switch apps it's always re-starting them
<popey> wifey has a 4, and hers is even slower
<hamitron> they still cost Â£120
<ali1234> iOS sends the suspend signal and then kills the app if it doesn't suspend in a certain time
<hamitron> waste of money imo
<popey> yeah, apple stuff holds its value
<popey> 10 mins I think?
<ali1234> no, more like 10 ms
<ali1234> that's why apps are getting killed when you switch
<popey> oh, i thought apps got an exception and could run longer
<ali1234> if they don't respond fast enough they are toast
<popey> like dropbox
<popey> thats something separate
<ali1234> perhaps if they specifically request it
<popey> yeah
<popey> for doing background uploads etc
<ali1234> apparently it's 5 seconds, still could cause some apps to die if they are really slow
<hamitron> so is this the correct moto g? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorola-5-Inch-SIM-Free-Smartphone-XT1068/dp/B00NBSZ56C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419168007&sr=8-1&keywords=moto+g
<ali1234> 2nd gen dual sim? yeah looks like it
<ali1234> there is also a 4G version but it does not have dual sim
<ali1234> and there are also two 1st gen version which you don't want
<hamitron> k
<hamitron> well, dual sim is the biggest factor
<hamitron> plus new ofc
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> and working
<hamitron> ;)
<foobarry> i got a moto g and the only thing i wish i knew was that new android doesn't let you go under 500mb free
<foobarry> i would have got a 16gb otherwise
<nigelb> ouch
<nigelb> I have a Moto G as well.
<nigelb> And I hadn't discovered that.
<foobarry> its useless limit, since a lot of features don't work under 500mb
<foobarry> e.g. receiving email, messages, etc
<foobarry> found facebook using 200mb of data recently
<foobarry> the functionality is identical to when it has 0mb of data
<foobarry> no idea what its doing
<foobarry> it#s not even cache
<nigelb> Oh, I use fb on the web on my phone.
<nigelb> Not comfortable installing it.
<nigelb> I keep deleting apps I don't use.
<popey> I've started using telegram a lot more to chat to friends
<nigelb> Yep, I use Telegram as well.
 * penguin42 isn't that sure about Telegram's logo for being 'open'
<penguin42> https://telegram.org/img/tl_card_open.gif
<nigelb> TextSecure is pretty good too.
<nigelb> It's my default SMS app now.
<popey> i saw someone has made a command line version of that
<popey> so there may be an ubuntu version at some point
<foobarry> has anyone found a twitter app that integrates multiple accounts other than plume?
<nigelb> doesn't the default twitter app do that?
<foobarry> plume recently broke usability in their app with massively spamming full screen ads
<popey> it does, yes
<nigelb> popey: There's a Telegram binary that works on Ubuntu.
<foobarry> as far as i see, twitter app allows to switch accounts
<nigelb> I used to use it briefly.
<popey> i do
<foobarry> but not mux all feeds together
<popey> ahh
<popey> i never found an app that could do that
<foobarry> plume
<popey> well, gwibber
<foobarry> but they want Â£3 for it
<nigelb> foobarry: there's a webapp
<foobarry> the ad supported one they have destroye
<nigelb> tweetdeck
<nigelb> I have not used their desktop version.
<foobarry> webapps on phone are a bit sucky
<nigelb> ah, on phone. Right.
<popey> yeah, i use tweetdeck on desktop
<foobarry> i recently installed donotcrash
<foobarry> saw a review by some guy called popey on my app store
<popey> ihaha
<foobarry> hard/annoying, quite fun
 * popey checks his high score
<foobarry> 32
<foobarry> might uninstall as its stressy
<foobarry> might be easier on a tablet
<popey> 32
<foobarry> heh
<popey> er, 31
<popey> yeah, i use it on a hudl2
<popey> uh
<popey> my tablet is muted, how do you unmute?
<nigelb> android?
<penguin42> turn up the volume?
<popey> yes
<nigelb> the volume butttons?
<popey> no, i still have a line through the speaker and no in game sound
<popey> yeah, of course i tried that! â»
<nigelb> how about volumes bit in settings?
<penguin42> hold down the power button until the menu comes up where you can chose the profile?
<nigelb> oh, and make sure it's not set to silent
<nigelb> that makes things weeeeeird.
<popey> it was already not silent mode
<popey> but flipped it silent on then off again
<popey> and all is fine again
<popey> how odd
<popey> thanks
<nigelb> "Hello IT, have you tried turning it off and on again?"
<popey> foobarry: played dont touch the spikes?
<popey> Minute quest might be up your street â»
<Guest15576> someone plz help my 14.10 not shutting down or suspending ... it freezes
<foobarry> no, will check out
<Guest15576> ?
<Guest15576> foobarry
<popey> Guest15576: #ubuntu is the official ubuntu support channel
<popey> more people there
<popey> just type /join #ubuntu
<popey> http://liliputing.com/2014/12/hp-chromebook-14-now-available-full-hd-touchscreen-display.html looks interesting
<Guest15576> thanks :)
<diddledan> morning. just bought christmas
<popey> \o/
<diddledan> lots of dvds involved
<penguin42> is there any left for anyone else?
<foobarry> anyone played world of tanks?
<ali1234> i've played similar f2p games
<popey> not me
<ali1234> star conflict is world of tanks in space
<diddledan> hmm, one of my monitors seems dead
 * zmoylan-pi would not want to go shopping in next 4 days for a new monitor....
<diddledan> ok, unplugging it and replugging worked
<diddledan> (power)
<brobostigon> who was that Guest15576, did he randomly pm other people?
<popey> not me
<brobostigon> ok,
<diddledan> ergh, why must people refer to "ubuntu 14"?!
<diddledan> fair enough this is a random twit, but it grates me every time I see it
<penguin42> especially when it's then not clear if it's 14.04 or 14.10
<diddledan> penguin42, exactly
<diddledan> e.g. https://twitter.com/Suuth_TGD/status/546700526768099329
<zmoylan-pi> i must confess i do sometimes forget to say .04 or .10.  i do try and not do that but it happens
<diddledan> it's not a version number
<penguin42> diddledan: Well, it's unique and incrementing, so it may as well be
<diddledan> it doens't really increment tho - else we'd have 14.1 then 14.2
<hamitron> 14.04 and 14.04.1
<penguin42> diddledan: OK, OK pedant!  It's monotonic and unique
<hamitron> ;)
<zmoylan-pi> pedantry on irc?? :-P
<penguin42> never
<diddledan> it's a name which just happens to also be a pair of numbers
<diddledan> the other one that gets me is dropping the 0 off 04
<penguin42> is that a problem?
<diddledan> yes
<penguin42> oh, just checking
<penguin42> diddledan: I mean yes it causes ASCII sorting problems, but not really that big an issue
<hamitron> tbh, I've never liked how some software considers 2.10 to be a newer version to 2.8
<diddledan> hamitron, yeah I don't like that either
<diddledan> hamitron, I've got used to it tho because pretty much everyone does it these days
 * hamitron doesn't
 * penguin42 finds himself running vim 7.4.475-2
<diddledan> I don't really like multiple .s either
<diddledan> I like to treat anything numeric as proper numbers
<hamitron> oh, I don't mind that
<diddledan> the problem I have with multiple dots is that you end up with 2.4.1.5.2.1
<penguin42> doing comparisons on them is a pain
<diddledan> (yes at work we have had version numbers like that)
<hamitron> sure, but better than having 2 different versions of 2.4.1.5.3
<hamitron> ;)
<zmoylan-pi> they could always chuck a little hex in their to mix it up 2.4.1.5.2.F :-)
<hamitron> I don't like the word "beta" is version numbers either
<hamitron> haha
<penguin42> I'm currently trying to figure out tags on an Android kernel my phone uses, the closest tag I can find is LNX.LA.3.5.2.2.c6-03000-8x74.0?
<hamitron> but sure there is plenty we all hate ;)
<diddledan> I prefer the idea of odd numbers being beta and even numbers as stable
<penguin42> I think the 8x74 is the CPU, but the 3.5.2 definitely doesn't correspond to the kernel version - it's 3.4.0 acording to it's Makefile
<hamitron> diddledan, yeh, I like that
<diddledan> (that requires two dots tho, which counters my statement above)
<zmoylan-pi> that was a good idea to my mind alright
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/extempore2/status/546707853478592512
<penguin42> popey: You've failed to answer an important question; what is the smug looking rabbit at the Ubuntu stand in Cina Mobile dev conference?
<penguin42> h
 * popey sees this notification on his phone and wanders into the den to reply
<popey> I have no idea â»
<diddledan> yey phones
<diddledan> notifications ftw
<penguin42> in that case we'd best just call him Frank
<diddledan> penguin42, is there a photo?
<penguin42> diddledan: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wdfQ2S2m7rY/VJVjjNe_IoI/AAAAAAAAByY/KLi5gR01aJk/w1202-h801-no/IMG_1927.jpg
<diddledan> pmsl
<diddledan> lots of men in suits. and a giant rabbit.
<popey> i think he belongs to the stand next to us
<zmoylan-pi> very bunny :-P
<penguin42> looking straight into the camera
<popey> look at the banner behind him
<popey> you can tell where he's looking!?
<zmoylan-pi> it's an odd looking rabbit
<popey> its cute
<zmoylan-pi> just bunny costumes usually have bigger ears
<diddledan> I think he's eyeing the ubuntu phones
<diddledan> he wants to have one away
<diddledan> tis a decent-sized stand for ubuntu
<zmoylan-pi> the british phone network rabbit will rise again :-)
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_%28telecommunications%29
<penguin42> yeh long time ago now
<diddledan> I used to own a cellular pager
<diddledan> no idea why I owned it tho
<zmoylan-pi> i had a pay as you go pager.  cost a quid i think to send a message to me.  ran on a aa battery for a week with space inside for spare battery
<penguin42> to get you alerted to something
<diddledan> penguin42, I was in school, what would I need to be alerted to?
<zmoylan-pi> and no one ever worked out how to send messages to it despite been shown.
<diddledan> I think you had to dictate to an operator to get a message to me via the one I had
<penguin42> diddledan: Impending doom, as normal
<zmoylan-pi> i wrote a programme in basic back then to send messages to engineers pagers.
<diddledan> penguin42, surely I'd know about that already being that it would be my doing
<zmoylan-pi> the service worked at 300bps.  the text just used to fly by...
<diddledan> my doings are renowned
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> they tried the dictate the messages service in ireland but in a weird first stab at outsourcing to india nobody coulld understand the irish or the indian accents which left some weird messages been delivered.
<diddledan> this would be shocking if 1) it wasn't so common, 2) is wasn't so ironically funny: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/antilgbt-preacher-gaylard-williams-arrested-for-grabbing-and-squeezing-mans-genitals-9938465.html
<zmoylan-pi> the more some one protests against gay rights the more i suspect they're closest cases.  tragic really
<foobarry> 3) his name is gaylard?
<diddledan> foobarry, yeah
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> his parents obviously knew something
<foobarry> nature or nurture?
<diddledan> plus his mugshot makes him look like a thug
<diddledan> (that's unrelated to his gayness, obviously)
<diddledan> -- I realised after I wrote about his mugshot that someone might get the impression that I was suggesting that gay folk look like thugs
<diddledan> -- that is NOT what I was implying
<diddledan> I do wish sometimes that I didn't have this shovel readily available for digging holes
<foobarry> url was too long to click
<diddledan> o_O
<foobarry> irssi+nicklist = fail
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> shall I shorten it?
<foobarry> i can imagine the story
<diddledan> http://go.bwlh.at/1JEatrC
<foobarry> ta:)
<diddledan> I should install a self-hosted shortlink thing rather than using bit.ly
<foobarry> independent have a real problem with comment spam
<foobarry> every single story has multiple
<foobarry> why don't they curate it or moderate?
<ali1234> because it is sunday evening?
<shauno> I don't get why newspapers have comments in the first place.  that's not what I visit them for
<knightwise> anyone ever tried the virtual box web interface ?
<popey> penguin42: you should ask joey directly about the wabbit. It could be some highly significant character in china?
<knightwise> i'm following this manual , http://www.howtoforge.com/managing-a-headless-virtualbox-installation-with-phpvirtualbox-on-ubuntu-14.04-ltshttp://www.howtoforge.com/managing-a-headless-virtualbox-installation-with-phpvirtualbox-on-ubuntu-14.04-lts
<knightwise> but when I enter the command update-rc.d vboxweb-service defaults it says it cant find the service
<knightwise> i checked , its also not in the /etc/init.d directory. i've installed virtualbox AND the extentions so i'm a little puzzled at why I cant find the service anywhere
<penguin42> popey: It wants me to join the community to post a comment
<popey> oh
<popey> you could tag him on my post
#ubuntu-uk 2015-12-14
<ali1234> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermoweb-Stitchn-Non-Woven-Medium-Weight-Tear-Away-White/dp/B0047VBD40/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1450051420&sr=8-21&keywords=stitch+and+tear
<ali1234> why is this age limited?
<mapps> hola
<diddledan_> I need a penvil
<diddledan_> pencil
<diddledan_> as in an apple one
<diddledan_> that's the only thing I'll be missing
<m0nkey_> Stop buying apple crap
<diddledan_> :-p
<MooDoo__> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> be careful, it's monday out there...
<diddledan_> merning
<zmoylan-pi> allo allo
<zmoylan-pi> with the flying goggles AND the wet celery...
<diddledan_> I feel I should know that reference
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: you're not in the other channel, it has confused me.
<zmoylan-pi> the tv show 'allo 'allo
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: no i'm not, not sure why I quit out of it lol
<SuperMatt> well get yourelf back in there
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Monkey Day! ð
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<zmoylan-pi> can't go wrong with an infinite number of monkeys... once you eliminate their mistakes...
 * JamesTait sends that link to his boys....
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<zmoylan-pi> right today is cold enough for porridge...
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<diddledan_> :-o
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> JamesTait: whats today I guess I missed it
<JamesTait> davmor2, https://www.daysoftheyear.com/days/monkey-day/
<davmor2> JamesTait: in that case this is the only appropriate song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksJ6QP8BYn0
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think that is fair right :D
<JamesTait> davmor2, you know I sometimes pick the days to make sure I get the song I want? ð
<davmor2> popey, JamesTait, MooDoo: you guys remember this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAbE36IBTZY
<popey> Tripitaka!
<MooDoo> pigsy!!! yeah of course :D
<davmor2> again seemed some how apt for monkey day
<zmoylan-pi> i loved that tv show... and the water margin...
<davmor2> ah the wonder of half term repeats
<MooDoo> davmor2: did you know andrew sachs was the voice acttor for horse in it?
<davmor2> MooDoo: I have a vague recollection of that yes
<zmoylan-pi> they found more episodes a few years back and have dubbed and released them iirc
<diddledan_> toys are here
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> magic post
<MooDoo> wot ya got wot ya got
<diddledan_> toys!
<diddledan_> :-p
<daftykins> dinosaurs?
<diddledan_> I got a job lot of recording gear
<diddledan_> i.e. nice mid-range condenser mic, a springy cage to hold the mic, a bendy arm to hold the cage holding the mic, a presonus audiobox usb interface for said mic, and a shiny nikon d5300
<diddledan_> now to ebay the still-only nikon d3000 that the 5300 is replacing
<diddledan_> the mic is an audio technica at2020
<daftykins> :o
<daftykins> what on earth are you recording, sir? :>
<diddledan_> that's still up in the air :-p
<zmoylan-pi> an interview with butterflies... :-)
<diddledan_> tumbleweed?
<MooDoo> tumbleweed.popey.com
<diddledan_> \o/
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: how the windows world
<SuperEngineer> the silence probablty answers davmor2's question ["Please wait...Windows is too busy to reply"]
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: windows has an update and has rebooted to install it, rinse and repeat
<SuperEngineer> :-D
<davmor2> that or the av is running and has ground the system to a virtual halt, he's possibly getting one letter an hour
<diddledan_> is a virtual halt just an imaginary one?
<diddledan_> like virtual reality
<SuperEngineer> now thaty's just stoopid!  Windows is much better these days.  It's now able to do at lease 1.5 letters an hour.
<diddledan_> how long are the letters?
<diddledan_> 400 words?
<diddledan_> :-p
<daftykins> such childish comments :P
<diddledan_> daftykins: shush, you enjoy it
<daftykins> of course were he on Ubuntu he'd still be wrestling with wifi drivers or perhaps getting it to boot to something other than a blank screen!
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan_> and if he saw daftykins his disk would immediately fial
<diddledan_> fail*
<daftykins> *nod*
<SuperEngineer> Actually, Win10 is a hell of better than old Wins
<diddledan_> I don't get that elon musk story where it reports he and several others are investing in AI to stop AI from taking over the world
<SuperEngineer> ...I know this from all the Apple users who tell me
<SuperEngineer> Did the SkyNet that won the war run on Windows?  I always assumed it ran on Linux.
<SuperEngineer> Complete with an artificial RMS & an immortal Toralds
<SuperEngineer> Hmmm... http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2015/12/beware-of-state-sponsored-hackers-twitter-warns-dozens-of-users/
<diddledan_> well I believe the terminators ran DOS 'cos the "robot vision" shows it loading command.com
<daftykins> :D
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<davmor2> diddledan_: might be dosbox/freedos/or wine running dos you know machines wouldn't pick windows they want something that works ;)
<daftykins> www.twitch.tv/whenchukattacks - this guy is so brave
<m0nkey_> Myrtti, you about?
<Myrtti> marginally
<Myrtti> but yes
<m0nkey_> lol :)
<m0nkey_> pvt?
<Myrtti> sure
<foobarry> argh
<foobarry> just realised i left my tablet charger in a hotel room last week
<daftykins> :(
<zleap> are they not standard 5v 2A chargers
<zleap> micro usb connector
<diddledan_> yawn
 * diddledan_ just napped :-p
<daftykins> O_O
#ubuntu-uk 2015-12-15
<ali1234> argh... joomla vulnerability that affects every release ever...
<daftykins> ooh
<ali1234> via a crafted user agent string :(
<daftykins> O_O
<diddledan_> :-o
<diddledan_> dang
<diddledan_> that's a nasty bug then
<mapps> casino time
<mapps> i was the only person at boat casino last night
<mapps> lol
<ali1234> who was driving?
<zmoylan-1i> finally some battery life... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-phones/12050078/This-smartphone-has-a-battery-that-lasts-up-to-15-days.html
<andylockran> morning guys
 * DJones bookmarks ready for 11am http://www.space.com/17933-nasa-television-webcasts-live-space-tv.html
<diddledan_> DJones: https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/12376237_1745068225781225_3252955097428112529_n.jpg?oh=3d029787347b29710c30b73743c84f70&oe=56E50B8A
<DJones> I saw that yesterday
<diddledan_> d'oh
<DJones> Would be quite funny though
<diddledan_> would be a great april 1st landing
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan_> m00 :-p
<MooDoo> :)
<diddledan_> (I'm nothing if not annoyingly persistent)
<MooDoo> hehe
<diddledan_> this thing is epic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-VUHdmjytM
<MooDoo> diddledan_: now that looks fun
<MooDoo> diddledan_: then again - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpko3CPHonQ
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: you're obsessed ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: admit it you just want one of these http://cdn1.sciencefiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/star-wars-speeder-bike.gif
<MooDoo> obsessed with what? and yes i'd love one of them :D
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday and happy Cat Herders Day! ð¼
<MooDoo> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CevxZvSJLk8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btPJPFnesV4
<davmor2> JamesTait: and because it's christmas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKs8K0FsNjY
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan_> DJones: nasa tv is live with the build-up
<DJones> Got it on
<DJones> Heh, BBc on twitter "Imagine how Tim Peake is feeling now" ... Probably thinking that he hopes he remembered to pack a spare pair of underwear
<brobostigon> lolz.
<foobarry> when do they launch?
<brobostigon> just past 11.
<foobarry> ta
<brobostigon> yw.
<MooDoo> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/ I believe
<Myrtti> http://blogs.esa.int/tim-peake/2015/12/09/watch-principia-launch-live-15-december/
<Myrtti> http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Human_Spaceflight/Principia/Principia_live
<MooDoo> :)
<foobarry> ah did i miss the launch?
<Myrtti> yes
<foobarry> boo
<DJones> Around 6 hours to travel about 250 vertical miles and rendevous with the ISS, wonder how many orbits of earth they make before rendevous
<diddledan_> isn't the ISS currently at an orbit every 45 minutes?
<diddledan_> I may be inventing that tho
<JamesTait> I love the apparent routineness of the whole thing. "Yeah, we'll be in orbit 6m45s after launch, then in 6h we'll dock with the ISS in time for tea."
<DJones> Something like that
<JamesTait> s/6m45s/8m45s
<DJones> I thinks thats the first launch I've watched live since Challenger
<JamesTait> Same here.
<JamesTait> Right, back to work. âº
<MooDoo> bloody spammers
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperMatt> not any more it's not
<SuperMatt> unless you're in some far off distant land
<davmor2> SuperMatt: it is always morning on the interwebs
<SuperMatt> are you saying it's because the internet is still in its infancy, and we are still learning as a species what it means to be interconnected?
<DJones> Heh, Mark Shuttleworth gets a mention on the BBC website as Briton who's flown into space
<SuperMatt> He may live here now, but he's not a native
<DJones> That was my first thought, didn't realise he had dual nationality
<MooDoo> ,
<daftykins> ,, chameleon
<MooDoo> no idea why i did that :D
<davmor2> daftykins: nice :)
<foobarry> feeling grumpy :(
<foobarry> there's a grumpy virus going round. slight sore throat and runny nose, but high grumpiness
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> foobarry: ah that sucks :(
<davmor2> but don't try and save MooDoo with wit and comedy he deserves the shunning he gets for posting random comma's
<foobarry> commas
<foobarry> don't go throwing random apostrophes around either :D
<davmor2> foobarry: I have a cure for that, lemon, 3 table spoons of honey and 300 ml of boiling water
<davmor2> foobarry: meh
<MooDoo> davmor2: "Â£Â£"%$Â£%%!Â£"$!!!!!!!!!
<davmor2> MooDoo: don't make me come over there I will slap you with a stick of spaghetti
<MooDoo> davmor2: s'ok I'll defend my self with this wet hallibut!
<daftykins> bah, these patch panels with 8 connections spread between top and bottom are totally throwing my game
<SuperEngineer> hope you's all watching the live ISS docking
<daftykins> that'd be fun, but i have to go out :(
<zmoylan-pi> it's either very boring and successful or full of excitement and a cockup... no real middle ground :-)
<SuperEngineer> ESA claims docking actually succesful [WEEEE!)...  no news re finding the key though
<zmoylan-pi> they're going to knock on the door and then leg it... :-)
<SuperEngineer> lol
<zmoylan-pi> most expensive joke ever... next to the f-35 program that is...
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<JamesTait> Arse, I missed the docking. :(
<JamesTait> Between Callum's nativity, ferrying my wife around, making dinner for everyone *and* the day job, it got lost.
 * davmor2 points JamesTait to unav
<JamesTait> But I know where I am. I'm exactly where I should be. It's the ISS and the Soyuz that's missing.
<zmoylan-pi> i suspect somehow if either never mind both of those were missing it might just be a teeny tiny news story... :-)
<diddledan_> hic
<diddledan_> my watch is happy today - I did enough moving for it to congratulate me on not being a lazy sod
<zmoylan-pi> sitting on edge of trampoline with 4 kids using it made the difference... :-)
<diddledan_> I apparantly walked 1.74km
<diddledan_> which was roughly 2000steps
<diddledan_> so my pace is about 87cm long?
<diddledan_> I had to figure-out hot to maths to work that out
<diddledan_> how to**
<davmor2> diddledan_: I think you're count is wrong, average stride is 30-40 cm's, so you either ran or were walking on John Cleese ;)
<diddledan_> that seems short
<davmor2> Left-right-left foot back down is 78cm for me at 6foot2inch which is 39cm
<davmor2> diddledan_: http://www.preventdisease.com/healthtools/articles/stride_length_m.shtml
 * zmoylan-pi puts on spaceballs in honour of new star wars movie...
<daftykins> non-event for me :)
<zmoylan-pi> it's a trap... :-D http://i.imgur.com/HiXFfZa.jpg
#ubuntu-uk 2015-12-16
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy Day Of Reconciliation! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
<foobarry> oh no
<foobarry> new star wars is 12A. already got excited and told  5yr old son he is coming to cinema with me.
<foobarry> he's only ever watched octonauts and shaun the sheep on telly with a bit of button moon
<foobarry> wifey now annoyed "you promised him, you have to take him"
<foobarry> i expected a U rating as per many previous SW films
<diplo> I just cover their eyes at inappropriate times foobarry if I can :D
<foobarry> hoping some people in here will watch it with their kids and report back...
<SuperMatt> well 12a means that anyone below 12 can be accompanied by an adult. I guess the general gist is that it's probably ok, but you need to decide if your kid is up to it
<SuperMatt> chances are there won't be any swearing, and it's only so high because of the fighting
<foobarry> i'd like to see how others fare
<SuperMatt> I want to see it, but I don't think I'll have time this side of Christmas
<foobarry> it'll still be there :)
<SuperMatt> I know
<SuperMatt> just reading through the guardian review and it doesn't seem like it's going to be too heavy
<Myrtti> it's 12 unaccompanied, 9 with adult in Finland
<foobarry> its hard to know what a 5 or 6 yr old finds scary
<foobarry> it will be an intense experience for him
<popey> foobarry, IMDB is usually a good reference - may be spoilers http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2488496/parentalguide?ref_=tt_ql_7
<popey> Your son is 5!?
<popey> Sam is 9 and says he's not sure about going because it will be scary
<foobarry> i think i got excited because i saw empire strikes back when i was 5
<foobarry> at the cinema
<foobarry> and ROTJ a few yrs later
<SuperMatt> well a lot of the talk is about how the enw one is more in line with the original three
<foobarry> i'd like to back out now but my wife sys i have committed to it now
<SuperMatt> never make promises to a child!
<foobarry> i didn't but my wife says i did
<foobarry> :(
<SuperMatt> d'oh!
<SuperMatt> in which case, I think they're ganging up against you
<SuperMatt> you can never win
<foobarry> thats for sure
<diplo> foobarry: I quite often take my kids to see 12/15's ( 7 and 9 ) more so the older one, but I do investigate each film first
<diplo> But not so sure about a 5 year old, I can't see a problem though
<foobarry> he's six in jan :S
<foobarry> but a lot of dev goes on at tht stage
<diplo> yeah, my sons watch most of the Marvel and some DC films which are 12
<diplo> Started on Watchmen with the older one when I remembered how bad it was, he keeps pestering me to watch more but I think it's a little toooooo much for him yet
<selinuxium> 'lo
<selinuxium> Anyone here played with Docker or Juju or both?
<diplo> Nope :/ keep meaning too
<selinuxium> Me too..
<diplo> Maybe #ubuntu-server would get more help though :)
<selinuxium> Have a freshly wiped laptop to just do some playgorund stuff..
<selinuxium> True... :)
<diplo> I really must find some time, no free hardware available though, keep pestering work for some :)
<MooDoo_> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> the rarely seen but often talked about changing of the MooDoo's... :-)
<selinuxium> :)
<foobarry> once i was in monaco
<foobarry> doing the tourist thing
<foobarry> saw a massive crowd
<foobarry> thought something was gonna happen
<foobarry> july heat. almost fainting from the sunshine..waiting ages. can't leave now i've invested so much time into waiting. what will happen? crown a new king?
<zmoylan-pi> ice cream van queue? :-)
<foobarry> suddenlysomeone comes out of the palace
<foobarry> switches shift with his mate
<foobarry> crowd disperses. they were waiting to see that?
<zmoylan-pi> military does love it's pomp and ceremony...
<zmoylan-pi> i.t. should start similar tradition, changing of the ink cartridge, every day about noonish depending on how much of the web some eejit has printed out today :-)
<foobarry> can i lvresize / while it's mounted? i guess not
<davmor2> foobarry: http://www.bbfc.co.uk/what-classification/12a-and-12 late and you probably had an answer already but
<selinuxium_> lll
<selinuxium_> bloody net connection...
<webpigeon> selinuxium: I use docker
<selinuxium> What are youy using i for? :) I am getting a little baboozalled with all the orchestration tools... :)
<selinuxium> Are you using it on ubuntu?
<webpigeon> I've got a bunch of debian VMs which i'm using it on
<webpigeon> 1 commerical system (5 containers) and a bunch of little things (forum, smtp server, xmpp server, etc...)
<webpigeon> docker-compose is pretty much the only tool i'm using with it
<selinuxium> Cheers :)
<webpigeon> I'd recommend using their apt repo because the one packaged directly in debian/ubuntu is a bit old
<selinuxium> Ok
<selinuxium> Have you dabbled with Chef/Puppet?
<webpigeon> puppet I used to use where I used to work before my PhD (used it to manage 200 windows desktops and a few debian servers)
<foobarry> what do you do now webpigeon
<webpigeon> looking at controlling non-player characters in role playing games
<webpigeon> doing some work for the uni as well do with collecting statistical models for commuters (think Waze)
<foobarry> where u based?
<webpigeon> University of Essex (Colchester)
<foobarry> i'm looking for mathematically minded linux users to employ for a special role
<foobarry> are you still doing the phd?
<webpigeon> indeed I am
<foobarry> when do u finish?
<webpigeon> 2 more years - only started last year
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> so maybe 3 ... or 4
<foobarry> ...
<webpigeon> It's 4 year fixed term :)
<foobarry> good luck :)
<webpigeon> thanks :)
<diddledan_> a further enhancement to my microphone arrived today : a popfilter
<diddledan_> now all I'm missing is a magewell hdmi-to-usb3 thingy and a suitable cable
<daftykins> and a reason!
<diddledan_> pssh
<diddledan_> reasons are overrated
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i expect some imaginary dinosaur fight recordings for testing purposes!
<diddledan_> haha
<diddledan_> that'll require opening my nephew's xmas pressie!
<daftykins> hmm, mission impossible
<zmoylan-pi> so they get a broken used pressie, they must have just made santas naughty list... :-)
<daftykins> blech, couldn't get a patch panel to do what i wanted so i'm having to send it back :(
<diddledan_> daftykins: you should install a patch
<daftykins> lead? ;)
<diddledan_> "heavy man"
<diddledan_> I wonder why lead and lead are spelt the same when they're entirely different
<davmor2> yeah but he's a big softie
<diddledan_> o/ I'm one of those!
<davmor2> diddledan_: more import lead and led are written differently but pronounce the same
<davmor2> unless it is the other lead
<diddledan_> you could have a led on the end of a lead
<davmor2> same for I read a book and I've read a book
<diddledan_> you need to remember which witch is which, too
<davmor2> diddledan_: yes you always want the right one to write the rite and not the wrong one
<diddledan_> and there's always their misuse of they're
<davmor2> I never get that right and I try :D
<SuperEngineer> & just why does a baker use dough to make bread but uses doh! when burning bread?
<davmor2> diddledan_: where werewolf wear were wear and who knows where they were
<diddledan_> ooh eck that's a good one
<SuperEngineer> Symantics are even more fun...
<davmor2> and they say English is hard to learn pffff
<SuperEngineer> [say the following repeatedly but putting the empasis on a deifferent each time]
<SuperEngineer> i didn't say he stole the money
<diddledan_> it's not hard. I'd mastered it by the time I was 5!
<diddledan_> and most of that was spent unable to speak at all
<SuperEngineer> & you mastered modesty when?
<diddledan_> SuperEngineer: last week. she said I was a gentleman
<SuperEngineer> impressed!
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: mode sty, well like most teens I would imagine
<diddledan_> modesty is cute! :-p
<davmor2> diddledan_: no pretty sure it is mode.Sty in Qt
<diddledan_> :-p
<davmor2> diddledan_: you're welcome :)  If you like tongue twisters a nice clean one I discovered in my spelling book was "Ten titchy toads tried tying toes together"
<diddledan_> nice
<daftykins> perhaps they should have done so tentatively
<zmoylan-pi> i've always gone with the traditional i'm not the pheasent plucker, i'm the pheasent pluckers son and i'm only plucking pheasents till the the pheasent plucker comes...
<diddledan_> how about, ten tetchy titchy toads tentatively tried tying teeny toes together
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: I always thought that was about a pleasent phucker
<diddledan_> the u would probably be Ã¼ if we were German
<diddledan_> alternatively "phoocker"
<daftykins> are you talking about flying fokkers?
<zmoylan-pi> and she sells sea shells by the sea shore was about an actual person
<daftykins> i wonder how good business was?
<SuperEngineer> she sold several sacks saying sayings [she said]
<davmor2> she sells seashells from the seashore if she sells sea shells from the seashore she'll sell sea shells forever more
<davmor2> diddledan_: no you lose the red lorry, yellow lorry repetition error if you throw in tentatively
<m0nkey__> Hola!
<davmor2> hello
 * m0nkey__ tickles diddledan_ 
<foobarry> is there an easy way on linux to dedrm amazon books?
<popey> yes
<foobarry> seem to remember the old way was annoying and required wine and pycrypto
<foobarry> oh?
<popey> calibre has a drm stripper
<foobarry> hmm. maybe i used to do it the hard way
<foobarry> will look again
<diddledan_> m0nkey_: sorry, was round the parentals
<foobarry> hmm. still not straightforward in calibre
<foobarry> amazon suck
<foobarry> anyone know how to find the key for the wine kindle pc app?
<foobarry> hmm seem to have this error https://github.com/apprenticeharper/DeDRM_tools/issues/25
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> will the petrol station sell toothpaste
<mapps> i reckon yes
<diddledan_> I think they should
<mapps> got bite all over me
<diddledan_> who was she? :-p
<mapps> i open the windows to get air in..and yep stupid mosquitos
<diddledan_> aww, that's less fun than I was thinking :-p
<mapps> its annoying
<mapps> no windows open and its all stuffy
<mapps> hmm what to do, not in the mood to do anything
<daftykins> that doesn't leave a lot of choices :D
<mapps> peep show..apprentice and get a rubbish burger i guess
<mapps> easyJet expects the new route to attract around 30,000 visitors during the first 12 months of operation. Fares will start from Â£35.49 one way.
<mapps> pretty cheap
<mapps> peep show's so funny
<brobostigon> someone on my facebook just said, 2001 to be total boredum, what blasphemy, arthur c clarke is a genius.
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> apprentice time!
#ubuntu-uk 2015-12-17
<diddledan_> brobostigon: it's not boring, it's methodical and builds momentun
<diddledan_> momentum*
<diddledan_> I'm betting they didn't wait till the end with comments like that
<mapps> of what ?
<mapps> emd of?
<diddledan_> mapps: 2001
<diddledan_> speaking of 2k1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3rDfRF_650
<webpigeon> selinuxium: https://www.linux.com/news/enterprise/systems-management/873287-getting-started-with-docker
<diddledan_> don't you love that? technicolor have a demonstration of the difference between a certified display and an uncertified display. I'm viewing it on an uncertified display yet somehow they think I can see the quality of their certified displays by viewing an image of it on an uncertified display
<diddledan_> http://www.technicolor.com/en/solutions-services/technology/technology-licensing/image-color/color-certification/color-certification-process/color-spaces
<zmoylan-1i> put the screen on an approved photocopier and print the results :-)
<diddledan_> it's like showing the difference between whitening toothpaste and non-whitening by painting teeth for the photo of non-whitened
 * zmoylan-1i wonders how many people are looking at tvs that are running at well lower than their top res as they don't know the difference
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> whos still up
<diddledan_> not me
<mapps> :D
<mapps> gah
<mapps> gonna have to buy some mosuqito nets
<mapps> sick of getting bitten
<mapps> reallu want to open the windows
<mapps> hmm thogght was last ep this week
<mapps> anyone watch luther
<diddledan_> I've not seen this week's
<mapps> first ep:D
<selinuxium> webpigeon, Cheers
<diddledan_> someone says of their missus seeing start warts last night: "3am sandra comes to bed and says 'great film until they....<insert spoiler here>'"
<diddledan_> (I've edited it slightly to remove any potential spoiler - the actual tweet included a bit more but not a full-on spoiler)
<diddledan_> this person was bemoaning the spoiler he was subjected to
<pwaring> diddledan_: I saw that too (revk)
<diddledan_> yup
<mapps> argh
<mapps> cant sleep
 * diddledan_ didn't try
<davmor2> Morning all
<diddledan_> morning, davmor2
<diddledan_> lol: https://twitter.com/virginmedia/status/677416713726517248
<davmor2> hehehe
 * davmor2 notes the tumbleweeds rollin around in here too
<diddledan_> :-)
<davmor2> diddledan_: have a play with google.co.uk test your knowledge of mozart :)
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> three down
<diddledan_> four - got that first time
<diddledan_> yey I won
<diddledan_> only the second one took more than one try :-)
<mapps> still cany
<mapps> arrgh this sucks
<mapps> diddledan_ dont you find you go past it and struggle to sleep?
<diddledan_> mapps: I don't sleep :-p
<diddledan_> mapps: ok that's a lie. I don't sleep and then I sleep lots
<diddledan_> maybe I should be on martian days?
<mapps> how long you been up
<diddledan_> since about 2pm yesterday
<diddledan_> yesterday was a a day where I slept lots :-)
<mapps> ;]
<davmor2> diddledan_: man you need a job again dude, I think popey was after a footstool and coffee maker ;)
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> speaking of popey, ubuntu podcast has just been uploaded?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday, and happy Wright Brothers Day! â
 * diddledan_ sticks his arms out to the side and yells "NNNNNYYYYEEEEEOOOOOOWWWWWW"
<mapps> ah i assumed diddledan_ worked from home
<diddledan_> I do/did
<mapps> =]
<diddledan_> xmas pressie from boss was a kind "we don't got no work"
<diddledan_> I'm mulling over possibilities for striking-out onn my own
<diddledan_> if I can make it pay my thinking right now is to do kinda short-form web-dev training video series
<davmor2> JamesTait: these seem apt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIQn8pab8Vc  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RouQ5gAngk
<diddledan_> davmor2: awesome choices
<foobarry> nagios: anyone know how i can switch from mk-livestatus to check-mk-livestatus seamlessly?
<diddledan_> foobarry: change all your nrpe configs to include both, then change the nagios config to the new name and restart the daemon, finally once that's had time to propagate you can remove the older nrpe definition
<foobarry> thanks diddledan_ i'll hold over till after xmas and put a cron job in to rstart nagios every night instead until then
<diddledan_> ouch
<foobarry> got a bug that stops nagios each night
<diddledan_> dang, that's not fun
<JamesTait> davmor2, I 'ate that duck!
<davmor2> JamesTait: You like the dance remix then :D
<diddledan_> yey for american politics: http://www.wired.com/2015/12/congress-slips-cisa-into-omnibus-bill-thats-sure-to-pass/
<mapps> ;]
<davmor2> and at this point all the geeks and terrorists move to owncloud in a country that cares not one bit for americas security bills
<diddledan_> like britain.. oh wait
<bashrc> yey for owncloud
<diddledan_> or france? no, just as bad
<davmor2> diddledan_: no we have gchq they've been spying on us all for decades that's what they do :)
<diddledan_> swissroll land?
<davmor2> diddledan_: sealand
<diddledan_> is that still a thing?
<bashrc> I don't think the kind of bulk surveillance has been possible until the last 5-10 years. In the olden days there just wasn't the storage/compute capacity
<zmoylan-pi> the british government has been spying since forever.  it's what they do.  your job is to make the spying irrelevent by filling their databases with crap.
<bashrc> so GCHQ were probably always spying on *some* people, but not the entire population
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: yeah but we're not all terrorists like you
<zmoylan-pi> gchq used to monitor all phone calls/faxes in ireland in mid 80s.  nothing new here. just more computers involved is all
<diddledan_> oh dang, now you're on a watchlist ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> and for all their spying it was useless.  and very very expensive
<bashrc> in the 1980s they woldn't have had the storage capacity for phone calls, let alone the compute capacity to do speech analysis
<diddledan_> yeah, the unionists carried on uniting, and the ira kept on irishing
<diddledan_> and the pira kept on provisioning :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i used to love that sinn fÃ©in used to have an auction site for buying bugs they had discovered in offices, cars, buildings they used...
<diddledan_> bashrc: according to my logic the PIRA had plenty of capacity because they could just provision more :-p
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> I wonder who mo molem slept with to secure the peace deal?
<bashrc> you could do the math. What's the minimum storage for audio. How long is a typical phone call. How many people make calls on a given day
<bashrc> I bet it's way beyond the storage capacity of even the best 1980s computers
<diddledan_> bashrc: now or then? now nobody makes any phone calls :-p
<diddledan_> GCHQ have it easy - the only people using unencrypted comms seem to be the bad guys
<zmoylan-pi> and the geeks
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan_> morning, brobostigon
<zmoylan-pi> even the ones not programming at night wearing hoodies :-)
<diddledan_> how did you know I wear a hoodie?
<diddledan_> I must dig-out my guy fawkes mask at some point
 * zmoylan-pi reports diddledan_ to the daily mail as evil hacker... :-P
<diddledan_> oh thank god for that, I thought I might be in trouble till you said the daily mail
<diddledan_> nobody takes that rag seriously :-D
<brobostigon> morning diddledan_
<zmoylan-pi> they'll start a campaign to install windows vista on your laptop...
<diddledan_> awesome!
<diddledan_> upgrade ftw!
<diddledan_> you can upgrade from 3.1 to vista, right?
<zmoylan-pi> or windows me if it's not compatible with vista...
 * diddledan_ windows' you as requested
<diddledan_> I didn't know that windowsing was a thing
<davmor2> diddledan_: 3.1 these are hackers dude they don't need no stinking windows dos all the way ;)
<diddledan_> ooh, one of those new fangled commandline thingies?
<davmor2> diddledan_: they had to upgrade from punch cards it sounded too violent
<diddledan_> I hear hackers love sitting in front of a screen with text scrolling past too quick for a non hacker to read (I guess hackers can somehow absorb it rather than read it)
<davmor2> diddledan_: they are used to the matrix single lines of text are so much easier
<diddledan_> there's a weird thread on ubuntu-developers mailing list entitled "Backup api"
<diddledan_> latest email just arrived - their backup solution using btrfs snapshot mechanism is to copy a set of files into a different folder (which is backed by a btrfs subvolume) and make a btrfs snapshot of _that_ folder rather than the original
<diddledan_> seems odd to me
<diddledan_> maybe I'm reading it wrong?
<davmor2> diddledan_: no I got a what the hell feeling reading it :)
<diddledan_> I'm not mad then?
<diddledan_> thank god for that. I was worried for a moment.
<diddledan_> was all set to phone my doc to get my meds changed :-p
<diddledan_> </joke>
<davmor2> Oh no you're mad but not for reading that wrong :P
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> good point
<diddledan_> more flying bricks (for those that love launches): http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/12/17/vs-13-mission-status-center/
<diddledan_> this one is launching two galileo satellites (the european equiv to GPS IIRC)
<Laney> http://red3blog.tumblr.com/post/135098280942/formeldeharv-i-put-all-i-want-for-christmas-is
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Laney: oh my ha!
<Azelphur> So, in todays wtf. I noticed my boiler cupboard has a leak, went in there to figure it out, https://owncloud.azelphur.com/index.php/s/Vw1KbY4gK11YtCR
<Azelphur> I shit you not, some nutjob built it like this.
<ali1234> Azelphur: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Whitefurze-14cm-Clear-Plastic-Funnel/dp/B004XLGX0I
<Azelphur> good idea, I have one in my cupboard
<ali1234> that green ring on the upper pipe suggests it was connected to something at some time
<Azelphur> ali1234: had a look around on the floor and nothing is htere
<Azelphur> if there was something there, it must have been removed, probably before I even lived here
<popey> did the pipe not just drop due to gravity and poor connection?
<popey> if you grab the lower one, can you lift it?
<diddledan_> Laney: that's amazingly bad
<diddledan_> err
<diddledan_> that's a bad bit of gapping
<diddledan_> gapping re: Azelphur
<Azelphur> popey: looks like you're right and it has fallen out, no easy way to get it in
<popey> lift it, shove it back in, put a brick under it to hold it for now
<popey> get some plumbers tape to go round the metal pipe and push the bottom one up over it to seal
<Myrtti> Azelphur: whaa
<foobarry> i have 19.86 to pay back on topcashback. why is it only allowing me to pay 11.64 into my account?
<foobarry> Membership Deduction
<foobarry> - 8.22
<foobarry> whats this swindle?
<foobarry> i never signed up for their plus membership
<Azelphur> popey: had my dad come over and reattach the pipe properly, it's propped up by a plastic box :)
<Azelphur> he had lots of complaints about the shoddy workmanship in that cupboard.
<foobarry> dads are great
<NotInThere> Should this work with #Ubuntu ? http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00OGT9U2A
<NotInThere> I shall check the logs at E. of Day.
<Seeker`> Everyone needs to go and see star wars right now
<popey> No spoilers
<Seeker`> popey: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWWMjdFVEAEi9ml.jpg:large ?
<popey> va va voom
 * Seeker` saw the midnight showing last night
<Seeker`> is good. Go see it now.
<SuperEngineer> Star Wars spoilers: the kangeroo learns to swim, the teddy bear gets genitals tatoo'd, the penguins *do* fall over backwards when a plane flies over, ...& Little Red Riding Hood marries the wolf
<SuperEngineer> ...and, aparrently, there seems to be a new film release going on [so they say]
<Myrtti> SuperEngineer: don't play with it too much, some of freenode staffers are taking a dim view on spoilers...
<Myrtti> Seeker`: looks like we've got to wait until 23rd
<Seeker`> Myrtti: aww. Why so long?
<Myrtti> Seeker`: priorities with life at the moment
<Myrtti> I'm just happy we didn't book the midnight show
<SuperEngineer> Myrtti, but re the above: it's true.. my dreams prove it
<Myrtti> hubby's down with a stomach issue of some kind, he stayed awake last night for hours and we ended up calling 111 for instructions
<Seeker`> ouch
<Seeker`> he ok?
<Myrtti> and I'm on my third night of crappy sleep
<Myrtti> yeah, just staying in working from home today, too
<Myrtti> speaking of his work... http://www.comparethemarket.com/
<Seeker`> hope he gets better soon
<Myrtti> or http://www.comparethemarket.com/galactic-insurance/ to be more exact
<Myrtti> I certainly hope so too, we've got things to do and places to be
<popey> Myrtti, before you joined- <AnttiSaarnio> We have received financing to continue Sailfish OS development from our investors. THIS means that reports about Jolla's death are greatly exaggerated :)
<Myrtti> popey: yeah, I heard elsewhere
<Myrtti> cybette â¥
<popey> heh
<Myrtti> I hope it's good news for her
<Myrtti> she is in one of my favourite Wedding Photos â¥
<popey> those jolla tablets on the chinese site are only 120 quid
<popey> clearly means jolla get no revenue from them, but that's cheap
<Myrtti> yeah
<SuperEngineer> Since Linux Voice completely moved to https from http I can no longer use gpodder to catch their [https] feed, or lifrea for the rss feed on https, or [just tried] rythmbox for the podfeed either... could this be a version prob [all from ubuntu repos, on 14.04.3] or a system prob I've not picked up till now? suggestions welcome.
<popey> what error does gpodder give?
<SuperEngineer> "Some podcasts could not be added to your list:"
<SuperEngineer> https://www.linuxvoice.com/podcast_mp3.rss
<SuperEngineer> [still looking for any relevanyt logfile... without much success]
<SuperEngineer> and just updated to 3.8.5 - same version as just tried by degville which worked for him... this appears to be a problem at my end therefore [but work out what the heck is going on]
<SuperEngineer> https connections fully okay via Firefox etc... it's just gpodder & liferea [& I've tried the podcast via rythmbox, fail]
<SuperEngineer> confused
<SuperEngineer> Liferea gives: HTTP error code 0: A network error occurred, or the other end closed the connection unexpectedly
<SuperEngineer> hmm.. just found [relevasnt? gpodder log... http://paste.ubuntu.com/14074357/
<SuperEngineer> gonna try on ubuntu mate partition & see what happens there. bbs
<diddledan_> looks like it thinks he's offline
<diddledan_> dns issue mayhaps
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... just in case you're still available popey - odd! In U-Mate 15.10 no problem found.
<SuperEngineer>  In Ubuntu 14.04.3, no go.  This may well be a local [my system] problem but have no clue where to start on this one :(
<popey> interesting
<popey> could be some python library which needs updating
<popey> oooh, I'm getting a flashback
<SuperEngineer> ah! I do see python errors mentioned in logs.. but are meaningless to me...
<Azelphur> in todays other weird events, https://owncloud.azelphur.com/index.php/s/ITVU0rkCW1MMMGF my head flying hours is greater than my power-on hours
 * SuperEngineer hopes for popey flashback
<popey> do you have any other ssl feeds?
<popey> is that the only one
<SuperEngineer> liferea?
<SuperEngineer> [which also fails]
<SuperEngineer> no other secure feeds on gpodder - all other feeds are http
<SuperEngineer> it is the https which fai;ls on both gpodder and liferea
<SuperEngineer> ...& rhythmbox
<diddledan_> ssl library issues then perchance..
 * diddledan_ awaits the utterance of the oracle
<diddledan_> (popey)
 * SuperEngineer awaits... & hopes
<popey> no idea
<SuperEngineer> doh!
<SuperEngineer> :-D
<diddledan_> it might just be that 14.04 was 20 months ago and the ssl landscape has changed so that the ciphers the client is allowing aren't available on the server's allowed
<diddledan_> just guessing tho
<SuperEngineer> hmmm...
<SuperEngineer> contemplating upgrade to 15.10
<diddledan_> if you had a buttered filesystem I might risk suggesting doing a full system-wide snapshot and attempting an upgrade to a more recent buntu release to see if that fixes the issue - if it does then file a bug on the 14.04 release and if it doesn't then you can rollback with no ill effects :-)
<SuperEngineer> thinks....do I have btrfs or not... no!
<SuperEngineer> [I do have btrfd on an external drives partion for my media backups,; but that ain't gonna help really, is it!]
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> what really worries me is that if this a library prob, there are many other LTS users out there.
<SuperEngineer> If I could prove a bug, I'd report a bug.
<SuperEngineer> The fact that I haven't [yet] heard of anyone else having probbs... worrying.
<diddledan_> it's an odd one because we can't be sure exactly where the issue may be.
<SuperEngineer> agreed
<diddledan_> at least with a crash it's obvious that the program you launched had an issue :-)
<diddledan_> I can hear singing
<diddledan_> I wonder if the school over the road are having a carol evening?
<SuperEngineer> if it's angels singing... run!
<SuperEngineer> shout, "I'm alive, I tell you!]
<user_3216> knife can not cut without the permission of Allah
<user_3216> rulers are not doing Allah is doing
<user_3216> governments are not doing Allah is doing
<user_3216> sleep is not doing Allah is doing
 * foobarry popey 
<diddledan_> I'm sstarting to dislike heart internet. I asked them to cancel a service and instead of cancelling they asked me why I want to cancel and would I please not cancel. then they left it uncancelled
<popey> oh dear
<SuperEngineer> zzzzzzzzzzzz.....  popey it's back again!
<user_3216> hunger is not doing Allah is doing
<popey> go away user_3216
<Azelphur> popey: it's a bot
<foobarry> kicking is not doing popey is doing
<SuperEngineer> it's a bottom
<popey> heh
<diddledan_> if it's a bot why is it using webirc?
<SuperEngineer> webirc is doing, whatitsname is not doing
<diddledan_> it does raise a question tho, what constitutes doing allah?
<diddledan_> because governments aren't doing him
<SuperEngineer> rude!
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<diddledan_> indeed
<popey> moving on
<SuperEngineer> wow! have you the seen size of my
<SuperEngineer> ....
<SuperEngineer> wart
<diddledan_> so dominos want me to buy a pizza to celebrate the start warts
<SuperEngineer> ;_0
<SuperEngineer> the farts awaken?
<diddledan_> nothing proves your love for a movie franchise than gluttony
<diddledan_> more*
<SuperEngineer> Has anybody seen the new StratWarts movie yet?
<SuperEngineer> - just checking so I can add to personal ban list until I see it!  ;-)
<diddledan_> no :-(
<zmoylan-pi> who knew that darth vader would be princess leias dad!!!
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: I heard that luke is actually anakin and is in fact his own father
<zmoylan-pi> accident with faster than light drive and condom again?
<zmoylan-pi> and a copy of big 'uns
<SuperEngineer> diddledan_, you're saved then, zmoylan-pi at least you didn't give awat the teddy bear's dark secret
<diddledan_> yeah. plus regeneration now due to conception while travelling through time with all that wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff
<diddledan_> the teddy bear had a huge thingy?
<zmoylan-pi> i haven't seen episode 2 or 3 yet... so 7 might take a while
<diddledan_> me either
<diddledan_> I kinda gave up after 1
<zmoylan-pi> jar jar binks made me avoid
<diddledan_> 1 ruined it
<SuperEngineer> [you know, the one where the teddy bear reveals it is darth vador's great, great, graet grand mother
<diddledan_> :-o
<diddledan_> so the teddy bear is stuff full of gogo juice?
<diddledan_> "I rush in, whip my wand out and fire my magic all over his ass"
<SuperEngineer> yup, that & mars bars
<diddledan_> gotta love raj
<SuperEngineer> ah, BBT at last!
<diddledan_> \o/
<SuperEngineer> +1
<diddledan_> +1.1*10^15
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> gotta use scientific notation!
<SuperEngineer> [that's not yet proven - it;s only imaginary]
<diddledan_> no that's â-1
<diddledan_> aka j
<zmoylan-pi> i haven't an iota what you're talking about as i don't watch bbt
<diddledan_> or i
<diddledan_> depending on whether you're talking to a mathematician or an engineer :-)
<SuperEngineer> [so... +it/is-not*yet~proven = result]
<SuperEngineer> both now *saisfried*
<davmor2> diddledan_: it doesn't matter the physicist will say they are both wrong
<diddledan_> I think the i/j/â-1 conundrum just proves that we haven't devised appropriate mathematics to cope with the construct. the value definitely exists because it can be used to do funky equations to rotate sine-waves but at the same time it cannot exist because our rules state that â-1 should equal 1 but the previous example relies on that not being the case
<SuperEngineer> but what did the next example say?
<diddledan_> SuperEngineer: you just need to rotate the wave to find out
<SuperEngineer> lol
<diddledan_> I know about i/j being an issue because dad used to be a telly engineer and the tv broadcast system uses it extensively
<SuperEngineer> Best experiment I have ever performed in the physics world:
<diddledan_> you dropped an apple on isaac's head?
<zmoylan-pi> waste of a macbook :-)
<davmor2> SuperEngineer, diddledan_: here watch this and then we can just all get along damn it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N_tupPBtWQ
<diddledan_> see, I don't think it was a random accident, I think his rival was actually in the tree chucking them at isaac
<diddledan_> menamama
<SuperEngineer> Q/ what is the result of building mercury motor and "accidebtally setting tranformer to use direct full mains voltage insteas of 12V?
<zmoylan-pi> i think it was dropped by a cat who resented that he had invented the cat flap...
<diddledan_> SuperEngineer: exploding mercury?
<SuperEngineer> a/ emergency evacuation of entire lab full of students :_D
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: it's a Schroedinger cat flap
<diddledan_> \o/
<diddledan_> my sister in law just cannot get her head around schrÃ¶dinger :-) I tease her with it
<diddledan_> +e
<diddledan_> schrÃ¶edinger
<diddledan_> what I want to know is how did the dude get away with that kind sadistic thinking?
<diddledan_> "I know, let's put nibbles in a box with a load of poison"
<SuperEngineer> "schrÃ¶dinger" or "schrÃ¶edinger"... you don't know until you open the book therefore until then both ae correct
<diddledan_> what did he expect to happen?!
<zmoylan-pi> it was a cat, a lot of people hate cats
<diddledan_> seriously, you put a cat in a box with poison, it be dead
<SuperEngineer> or in a box with tesco cat food - same result
<diddledan_> perhaps it was a cover story to murder a terrifying feline?
<zmoylan-pi> depends on the cat. a lot of people will tell you how hard it is to get a cat to eat a pill that will make them better
<SuperEngineer> ermmm.... this pill is *not* one of "make you better" pills ;)
<zmoylan-pi> so the little beggar will ignore it
<diddledan_> more a make you a lil bit queesy
<SuperEngineer> lol
<diddledan_> upset your stomach a tad
<zmoylan-pi> we found the cat nibbled around the pill leaving it with a few mm of cat food attached.
<diddledan_> you'll be right as rain in no-time
<diddledan_> i.e. we'll flush you down the drain
<SuperEngineer> schrÃ¶edinger's salmonela - you don't know whether it's lethal until you get the post mortem
<diddledan_> is it feeding time yet?
<SuperEngineer> nom nom, stale chicken tonight
<diddledan_> ooh, nice - how you having it, just plain or in a sauce or something?
<diddledan_> plain with beans is nice and simple
<diddledan_> and maybe a jacketed spud
 * diddledan_ lurve bakey beans
<zmoylan-pi> beans on toast, spaghetti on toast, cheese on toast.  anything they can slip under the locked door... :-)
<diddledan_> :-)
<SuperEngineer> Just joking.. prefer living more "on the edge" than that - tonight is actually salmon fish cakes which I can't remember how long ago I bought them... now that's what I call real russian roullette
<diddledan_> toasticles are tasty too, I agree
<diddledan_> lol
<zmoylan-pi> well porcelain roulette... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> just make sure the kazi is covered by wifi and has back up reading material... and maybe a backup battery...
<SuperEngineer> I like the logixc here!
<diddledan_> I don't think you want it backing up
<SuperEngineer> buy shares in andrex is my advice
<zmoylan-pi> or wipe up with puppies... ah la father jack...
<SuperEngineer> ADVERT: mmmmmm... puppies.... smooth of the botty...& better than kittens
<zmoylan-pi> definitely less sharp than kittens
<SuperEngineer> so, in retrospect, I started on this channel today talking about https probs... now we're talking about puppies being better than kittens for botty usage... life is good again!  :-)
<zmoylan-pi> next up; porcupines are a complete no no
<SuperEngineer> #ubuntu-uk... better than therepies, better than pharmasuticals.
<zmoylan-pi> which printer paper is best for backup loo roll...
<SuperEngineer> &, zmoylan-pi, +1 on that. Most definitely better than that!
<SuperEngineer> used printer paper is best... it's been pre-warmed & pre-softened [so I'm told]
<zmoylan-pi> yeah but toner and inkjet ink can leave weird inverse temporary tattoos.... or so i've heard...
<SuperEngineer> "Dear Cartridge World, when I said I wanted a cartridge that didn't leave any residue..."
<zmoylan-pi> dear cartridge world, adding a moisturiser to your cartridges would be appreciated... :-P
<SuperEngineer> :-)
<SuperEngineer> time to go cook those ruddian roulette fishcakes; if you don't hear from me again,,,send flowers bitter
<SuperEngineer> *russian
<zmoylan-pi> and bogroll carrying puppies...
<SuperEngineer> [no kittens, sharp teeth!]
<zmoylan-pi> and their ability to climb anything using claws
<SuperEngineer> youch!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<zmoylan-pi> ... and their was much screaming
<SuperEngineer> & lo, he wept...
<SuperEngineer> ...from both ends!
<zmoylan-pi> but not as much as when a+e applied the iodine...
<SuperEngineer> you are determined to put me off these fish-cakes,  aren't you!
<zmoylan-pi> do amazon have specials on stomach pumps? :-D
 * SuperEngineer checks entiire area... no puppies, no kittens [definitely no kittens]...
<SuperEngineer> and no ambulances outside house [yet]
<zmoylan-pi> remember aliens? check the ceiling space
<SuperEngineer> scratch, scratch
<zmoylan-pi> *bip* *bip* *bip* they're in the room...
<SuperEngineer> can't wait for the stomach bit
<SuperEngineer> and, not being from this planet, /me gets ignored by alien
<SuperEngineer> phew... that was close. Now what's this lump on the wall.....  arrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhh!
<SuperEngineer> [happy dreams everybody!]  ;-)
<mapps> well that was tiresome
<mapps> slept from 11;30am ish till 6pm ish wokeup loads;/
<mapps> wokeup and my clock said 10;05 pm too, pretty confusing thought it really was that late;p
<mapps> charity worker steals 25k after becoming addicted to facebook games
<mapps> spent 4k on virtual crystals...wow
<mapps> handy..feel tired yet got up 7pm
<mapps> ugh
<mapps> ;/
#ubuntu-uk 2015-12-18
<mapps> who here uses kodi? had a q:D
<mapps> hm why does that happen..nets crazy slow say 100kbs force a reset of router..all back to normal?
<mapps> ugh 2hrs and wakeup, :|
 * mapps sulks
<mapps> still not tired;/ taken 2 herbal nytol but i think the herbal stuff is garbage
<_Spondge> But does it Ubuntu ? https://go.indiegogo.com/blog/2015/09/how-to-crowdfund-a-million-dollars.html
<_Spondge> I shall check me logs, laters.
<daftykins> mornin' o/
<mapps> diddledan catchup day?:P
<daftykins> oy, i just walked a mile carrying my sub to a repair shop
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> won't want to be repeating that any time soon
<mapps> ive been trying to sleep..5;40am-820 now cant sleep again turns out herbal nutol i rubbish
<mapps> whats up with it also
<daftykins> runs for a bit the first use of a day, goes into standby, won't come back
<mapps> on
<mapps> oh
<daftykins> so many things to do today
<daftykins> yesterday i finally got home and sorted just before i needed to be out for a meal at 7 :)
<daftykins> then i got offered a job where i used to teach again o0
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> taking?
<daftykins> depends, it'd be a part time role looking after a virtualisation server running MS Hyper-V, which i hate
<daftykins> should not have gotten up so early Â¬_Â¬
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> morning
<bigcalm> I'm using landscape-server-quickstart from ppa:landscape/14.10. Is it possible to update to a more recent version of landscape server by adding the a newer ppa such as ppa:landscape/15.11 and then removing the old one?
<leecowdrey> I think.... add the new one, update etc, then remove the old
<bigcalm> Lets give it a go :)
<bigcalm> It won't complain at having two ppas with the same packages?
<leecowdrey> no as the url's specified are version tagged
<leecowdrey> and even if /14.10 /15.11 was just added by you the packages in ppa should be version tagged for dependencies
<daftykins> ^ apt-cache policy <package> would confirm the preference order, bigcalm
<daftykins> (one the other is added and package lists are updated)
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14086921/
<bigcalm> Does it matter that I'm about to try to use /15.11 on a 14.04 LTS server?
<daftykins> yep mixing packages is a bit scary, how come you need newer than what's default in trusty?
<leecowdrey> if landscape dependencies are met, then you may get away with it. really depends what landscape 15.11 is expecting
<daftykins> !info landscape-server
<lubotu3`> Package landscape-server does not exist in vivid
<bigcalm> daftykins: landscape-server isn't in the repos
<bigcalm> It's only available via ppa
<daftykins> why is the bot out of date in here o0
<daftykins> oh i see
<daftykins> i guess if there's no upstart vs. systemd change in the package it should be ok?
<daftykins> i mean you've got trusty selected so hopefully it'll get an appropriate version
<daftykins> i say go for it :)
<bigcalm> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ygkujgj7tiuq64a/landscape_server_lds_releases.png?dl=0
<daftykins> should be as simple as apt install landscape-server now
<bigcalm> Not update?
<leecowdrey> that graphic (dropbox link) was generated by what?
<bigcalm> Erm, upgrade I mean
<daftykins> all works afaik
<bigcalm> leecowdrey: the web ui for landscape server
<daftykins> leecowdrey: do you mean the URL itself?
<leecowdrey> okay then unsupported does not mean it wont work, just may behave unexpectedly, worse case roll landscape back
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<daftykins> heya \o
<davmor2> bigcalm: you're active twirly
<bigcalm> davmor2: do you run landscape-server locally?
<leecowdrey> bigcalm: meant the content in the png
<davmor2> not locally no I have access to landscape that is controlling my server
<bigcalm> davmor2: yeah, thought that might be the case
<bigcalm> I'll wait for one of my controlled machines to finish updating itself from landscape before I try updating the server
<daftykins> could be wise :D
<daftykins> did it actually ever switch to requiring payment? i remember having it enabled for ages but not doing much with it
<daftykins> been asked to look at a fitbit not syncing, yaaaaawn couldn't care less ;)
<bigcalm> I'm using the free version that gives me 10 VM and 10 real computer licences
<daftykins> ah neat
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Bake Cookies Day! ðª
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> omw you genius, you reminded me i have cookie like things in the house!
<daftykins> \o/
<JamesTait> OK, my work here is done. Time to finish work for the year. ð
<SuperMatt> JamesTait: url for that please, my girlfriend needs to know this so I am treated when I get home
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, https://www.daysoftheyear.com/days/bake-cookies-day/
<SuperMatt> ta
<daftykins> SuperMatt: XD
<JamesTait> Apparently, it's also National Roast Suckling Pig Day.
<christel> nom
<bigcalm> omnom
<davmor2> JamesTait: I'm resorting to this I hope you're proud of yourself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye8mB6VsUHw
<davmor2> JamesTait: see I could of done spiderpig for that one :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> morninf daftykins
<bigcalm> That screwed up the server :D
<bigcalm> I'm going to rebuild the DO droplet and install ppa:landscape/15.11 from the get go
<daftykins> what happened? might not be too hard to sort
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14087094/
<daftykins> o0
<bigcalm> Yeah, going to blitz and reinstall
<bigcalm> Nothing else on the server, I like Digital Ocean for these things
<daftykins> :D same
<daftykins> only thing that annoys me is having to go into the control panel to change the kernel a VM boots
<bigcalm> Is that something you could do with their API?
<daftykins> *shrug* i don't dev
<bigcalm> Heh
<daftykins> i once looked at an android app for DO but didn't really trust putting my login into it
<daftykins> not sure i'm truly that desperate to deploy VMs that i'd be on my phone for it, either ;)
 * bigcalm hugs letsencrypt-auto
<daftykins> o0
<bigcalm> It means that the self signed cert created by landscape-server-quickstart is replaced with a real cert. This in turn means that landscape-client machines don't barf on the self signed cert when trying to register with the server
<daftykins> ah har, so no warnings
 * directhex is off work until february :o
<bigcalm> Just need to remember to renew in 90 days
<bigcalm> Actually, wonder if I can run a crontab to do it for me
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<bigcalm> Free licences have changed
<bigcalm> 10 x computer, 50 x container
<bigcalm> All of my DO VPS are registering as real machines
<foobarry> anyone know how i can speed up a mysql repair table that has already been started?
<bigcalm> foobarry: is mysql running or is this an external repair?
<bigcalm> If it's still running, try disconnecting all other applications from it
<foobarry> its running but nothing connected
<foobarry> might be a 50gb db
<foobarry> mysqld using v low cpu atm
<bigcalm> Google for changing the nice level of a process. I don't know if it's safe to do so or not though
<foobarry> i don't think its cpu bound
<foobarry> everything googley says don't bother repair on large tables
<foobarry> dropped the db instead
<foobarry> user is happy to recreate
<foobarry> anyone had experience tuning mysql for 30gb tables?
<foobarry> When tuning a MySQL server, the two most important variables to configure are key_buffer_size and table_open_cache. You should first feel confident that you have these set appropriately before trying to change any other variables.
<foobarry> cool
<ujjain> where could I advertise my own place to find a new talent for my landlord?
<Myrtti> tenant, you mean?
<foobarry> can i see instagram pic if i am not logged in?
<foobarry> (don't have an account)
<Myrtti> depends if it's a private account or not
<foobarry> ah ok
<foobarry> can see 3 pics, wondered if thats the lot or some hidden
<foobarry> #outoftouch
<mapps> hi all
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> what's new in mapps land?
<diddledan__> daftykins: that jesus loves you fella from #ubuntu has turned up in #wordpress now
<daftykins> lawl, enjoy!
<diddledan__> daftykins: he's playing the victim
<diddledan__> everyone is out to get him
<daftykins> oh but they are
<diddledan__> "it seems to me that people have something personal against me"
<diddledan__> joy
<diddledan__> he really is a vic
<daftykins> given the nick is crazy to use without expecting attention, could be a troll
<diddledan__> daftykins: LOL @ "I was under the impression that that's the express purpose of a channel like this (to do what ever it takes to help someone who asks for it)"
<mapps> nada daftykins watching cm=ome dine with me lol
<mapps> dude on there with an allergy to jewellery O_o
<daftykins> maybe it's just some metals
<diddledan__> he's ragequit now
<daftykins> jesus, don't want me for a sunbeam ~
<mapps> ragequitover what
<daftykins> tbh i should rewrite that wiki on installing wordpress or something
<daftykins> nn all!
<mapps> whatttt?
<mapps> sleep already daftykins?
<mapps> pretty early;p
#ubuntu-uk 2015-12-19
<diddledan__> wow, childhood's end was good
<mapps> whats that?
<diddledan__> a miniseries based on an arthur c clarke novel
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<directhex> http://www.dabs.com/products/sandisk-960gb-ultra-ii-sata-6gb-s-2-5--solid-state-drive-sdssdhii-960g-g25-9SRC.html - Â£150 1T SSD
<penguin42> nice, pity they don't have the small cheap ones
<diddledan__> :-)
<daftykins> you have to go for a minimum size to get enough NAND chips in parallel for the good speeds though ^_^
<user_9753> Allah is doing
<daftykins> unfortunately that series uses nasty tech
<daftykins> ugh not this asshole again
<penguin42> daftykins: Still faster than the spinny rust for laptops
<diddledan__> \o/ bumholio
<user_9753> sun is not doing Allah is doing
<daftykins> yeah but that's not saying much penguin42 :D
<user_9753> moon is not doing Allah is doing
<penguin42> in my case, very nice chocolate cheese cake is doing
<user_9753> stars are not doing Allah is doing
<penguin42> !op
<lubotu3`> Help!  DJones, Myrtti, Mez, AlanBell, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<daftykins> ops are not doing Allah is not doing
<popey> le sigh
 * penguin42 polishes popey's kicking boots
<diddledan__> I hope they have steel toe-caps
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hmm i might have to move my xbox up to the office here to use the speakers with a working sub ;_;
<diddledan__> that's dangerous
<diddledan__> it'll mean instead of working you'll be xboning
<daftykins> naaah
<daftykins> i can stream from down there but you only get stereo
<ali1234> penguin42: SD cards are now so cheap that you can use them like floppy disks
<mapps> hi;]
<diddledan__> ali1234: they need to make them reversable so you can use them like flippy floppy disks :-p
<diddledan__> put a game on there that requests that you flip the SD
<mapps> game and flipping sd?O_o
<daftykins> :D
<directhex> has there ever, in the history of irc, been a net positive outcome from web irc clients?
<penguin42> ali1234: I did see an adapter that took 10 uSDs and presented them on SATA
<user_9876> job is not doing allah is doing
<diddledan__> directhex: no
<directhex> like kiwiirc or mibbit or whatever
<diddledan__> !op
<lubotu3`> Help!  DJones, Myrtti, Mez, AlanBell, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<mapps> lol
<directhex> like, literally, why don't we just ban their entire ip range?
<popey> ffs
<diddledan__> this mormon is persistent
<daftykins> i knew a kick wasn't enough.
<popey> it sometimes is
<user_9876> dollar is not doing allah is doing
<mapps> prob doing the same in other channels
<Myrtti> I'm doing my nails :-(
<popey> haha
<daftykins> lol
<popey> i wish i had that excuse ;)
<diddledan__> Myrtti is not doing (nails), Allah is doing nails
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> you could popey - we won't tell
<popey> well, first I need nails
<diddledan__> because Allah is a pretty princess?
<mapps> seems so
<ali1234> penguin42: how much for the adapter? you can get 10x16GB SD cards for Â£32
<diddledan__> popey: they do glue-on ones for when you wear a nice dinner dress
<mapps> pt 2 of vegas with trevor mcdonald and fargo for breaks at work:)
<penguin42> ali1234: I think it was about 15GBP or so
<daftykins> mapps: what's Trevor doing about Vegas? history?
<mapps> ya
<mapps> talking about how some of it int all glitz and glamour
<daftykins> ah neat, i went to the Hoover Dam :>
<directhex> performance of those adapters is Bad(tm)
<mapps> how shocking eh
<directhex> and 10-way RAID0 is Bad(tm)
<diddledan__> daftykins: why did they name that place after a cleaning device?
<ali1234> you could conceivably build such an adapter to perform rather well
<ali1234> it would cost more than Â£15 though
<daftykins> Hoover is a brand!
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan__> so the vacuum cleaner company built the dam?
<daftykins> the tour isn't able to take you down into the bowels of it because the huge amount of concrete causes radiation o0 which i had no idea happened
<diddledan__> weird
<daftykins> still went pretty far down :D
<mapps> hmm
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/se578v7skbsx1wa/AAD77mPD2Rlx_H0937GjbY5Ua?dl=0
<daftykins> the one up to the sky was taken just holding my old early android out of a grate on the tour aimed up
<daftykins> really jammy to look kinda level
#ubuntu-uk 2015-12-20
<mapps> hi;]7
<mapps> no night owls  up?
<knightwise> morning
<knightwise> join #xps13 #reddit
<knightwise> mornign
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> hello;]
<penguin42> hey
<mapps> homeland finale tonight;D
<diddledan__> another rocket going-up at 01:29 - this one from spacex and they're going to attempt another landing, this time back at launch site rather than a barge : http://www.spacex.com/webcast/
<diddledan__> the video hasn't started yet tho
<penguin42> I wonder why they decided not to go with the barge this time; a barge sounds like a much better place to land stuff
<diddledan__> penguin42: less moving target :-p
<diddledan__> that's a guess tho
<diddledan__> I don't know the answer
<penguin42> pity, their barges had nice names
 * daftykins is playing with Server 2012 R2 and Hyper-V for a job at his old College
<daftykins> damn it's horrible :P
<diddledan__> heh
<zmoylan-pi> they're running out of barges? :-P
<diddledan__> yeah, torpedoing them doesn't help
<zmoylan-pi> pesky nasa zeros? :-)
<diddledan__> yeah. that and weirdo decimal points. and weirdo conversions between feet and cm
<diddledan__> when working for nasa, always remember to not carry the 1
<zmoylan-pi> we should all switch to smoots... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot
<diddledan__> I like that teh googs does smoots
<daftykins> diddledan__: i think you just had a seizure mid-sentence there
<diddledan__> lol
<zmoylan-pi> no no 'e's trying to be hip, down and cool with the kids :-)
<daftykins> i had him pegged for doing a voice artist try out for the chef on the muppets
<zmoylan-pi> der smooty booty dooty?
<daftykins> ho-hoo, careful with that talk around here ;)
<zmoylan-pi> minds in the gutter...
<diddledan__> haha
<daftykins> i'll have you know i was expecting you to steal the last booty we plundered
<diddledan__> der smooley doodey
<diddledan__> ^ what my nephew is good at!
<daftykins> i was about to suggest my cat had a paw in that one
<diddledan__> pooley. dats der smooley doodey!
<diddledan__> don't you love that the web was invented to facilitate the end of the world research (nuclear bombs)
<diddledan__> (that's what cern is all about, right?) :-p
<daftykins> makes me a tad con-cern'd
<zmoylan-pi> it's what the cats would have wanted... :-)
<diddledan__> well when we nuke ourselves to oblivion, the radiation will help the cockroaches to attain sentience
<zmoylan-pi> i thought lawyers were sentient?
<diddledan__> lol: https://twitter.com/meganamram/status/678688132640825344
<daftykins> this is hilarious, to manage this Server 2012 R2 system i need a *second* one to put the management tools on
<zmoylan-pi> so when poop hits the fan you need 2 working systems to fix things... brilliant... :-)
<diddledan__> daftykins: you can put the management tools on a normal windows
<daftykins> they advise against SCVMM being on the Hyper-V host
<daftykins> so yeah a client console could be on a normal OS, but then SCVMM they talk about being on a VM (which is lulzworthy) or on another host
<diddledan__> daftykins: http://blogs.technet.com/b/canitpro/archive/2015/09/03/rsat-tools-for-windows-10.aspx looks like you need pro though
<diddledan__> oh scvmm
<diddledan__> dang
<zmoylan-pi> piddly little toy oses... :-)
<diddledan__> wait, you put the management console in a machine that it's managing?
<daftykins> yeah XD
<diddledan__> inception!
<daftykins> sounds like eggs and baskets eh?
<zmoylan-pi> if it's a small installation it *should* be an ok thing to do...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: and yep, i'd like to take them off windows server but would likely have an uphill battle from their own IT support department :(
<penguin42> daftykins: Drop them into having win server as a guest under KVM ?
 * zmoylan-pi remembers running company mail server on windows 95 plus our office wiki.  till it was all replaced with a small business server install that failed a few times per week...
<zmoylan-pi> such a terrible os
<daftykins> well the use-case is my old College, where groups of 12-16 students at a time (a class) would be setting up VMs to learn OS installs as part of a full Windows domain, and/or Linux and Windows desktop OSs
<daftykins> i know what was on this big chunky server with oodles of RAM when i taught there 5 years ago, but i'm not sure if it's changed
<daftykins> i would likely want to switch to running a free education license of vmware instead
<daftykins> server becomes a drone box, maximise the use of resources on it instead of some silly Windows Server product... then just one client program at the other end to manage it
<zmoylan-pi> that windows 95 server also held a bigfoot drive i found for all our office 'media'... such a faithful little server... :-)
<diddledan__> haha, spain's "Popular Party" has won the election. That's a great name, like the "Tooting Popular Front"
<zmoylan-pi> and not the peoples popular party...?
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan__> nor the popular people's party
<penguin42> oh, they've delayed the launch
<penguin42> https://j.mp/1UT9kB2
<zmoylan-pi> they're waiting for lemon soaked napkins to be delivered?
<penguin42> yes
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-19
<mapps> berlin station so good
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<foobarry> i bought an itunes voucher many years ago, and had to create an appleid
<foobarry> keep getting attempts to login the account so i wanted to remove it...doesn't seem possible
<popey> you have to ask them to remove it I think
<foobarry> sigh
<popey> oh, you might be able to from within itunes
<popey> but that means installing itunes
<SuperMatt> Vendor lock in? What vendor lock in?
<foobarry>  We are unable to complete your request at this time. Please try again or come back later.
<foobarry> thats the support page
<foobarry> and a spinning whell. just like using a mac
<foobarry> they have to call me :(
<foobarry> oh the shame when i had to answer my comical security questions on the phone
<foobarry> ..should i say flippant
<SuperMatt> "What's your favourite operating system?"
<foobarry> been passed to senior adviser
<foobarry> "you don't have any plans to have any apple stuff in the future?"
<SuperMatt> because you said your favourite is Linux?
<foobarry> "your account will be locked forever"
<SuperMatt> I have to use a mac for work, and it's just terrible. For instance, there's no option for the dock to intellihide
<SuperMatt> It's either hidden all the time of visible all the time
<knightwise> morning
<foobarry> "are you currently involved in legal action against apple"
<foobarry> i get the impression not many people do this
<SuperMatt> heh
<knightwise> Ya-a--a-awn
<foobarry> does retro pie work oOK with pi zero?
<foobarry> was thinking of getting some of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-Wired-USB-SNES-Controller-Retro-Gaming-Joypad-Joystick-Gamepad-For-Nintendo-/162281751335?hash=item25c8bf0327:g:8JEAAOSwcLxYKyg8
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> foobarry: i use a pi3 but any pi will do for retropie
<popey> I have 8bitdo bluetooth controllers with my pi3. works a treat
<foobarry> quite expensive?
<popey> they're more expensive than the cheapo wired ones on ebay, yeah
<popey> search for 8bitdo
<popey> they're quality devices
<foobarry> been enjoying star wars pinball on android over the weekend, but got bad headaches
<zmoylan-pi> the game occupying my time is pixel dungeon, a roguealike variamt thats fairly hard
<knightwise> hmmm. is it possible that i need to upgrade my xps firmware to get bluetooth to work   ? ?
<knightwise> cant connect a single bluetooth mouse
<zmoylan-pi> do any other bt devices work?
<zmoylan-pi> send a file from a phone etc.
<knightwise> i havent been able to pair my bluetooth speakers so far
<knightwise> tried an apple mouse and 2 bluetooth models
<zmoylan-pi> it may have a limited bt feature set, try sending receiving a file from a phone.  one of the more basic services
<zmoylan-pi> but it doesn't look good
<knightwise> :( Hmmm
<knightwise> gonna google some more , see if i can find something out
<knightwise> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2323373
<knightwise> hmm. downloading firmware from a dropbox like . rrrr
<foobarry> knightwise: borrow a BT usb adapter from someone
<knightwise> foobarry: gonna try that
<knightwise> see if that works
<ali1234> sending a file from a phone over bluetooth is a bad test because it is explicitly broken
<ali1234> the feature was maintained by gnome so they removed it without writing a replacement
 * zmoylan-pi makes a note to check what's doing the transfer next time i bt to a laptop
<Rixon> Hi there, I've been following a guide to pivot_root so I can shrink my root fs+lvm and grow my var fs+lvm, I got as far as copying the necessary parts into tmpfs and restarting all the services, fuser -vm and lsof both roport nothing holding onto /oldroot but I still can't umount it =( I saw a suggestion that /oldroot/boot might still be mounted, but it's not
<Rixon> any ideas on what to investigate if fuser -vm and lsof both have nothing left to tell me?
<diddledan> Rixon: what about /dev /dev/pts /proc /sys and any other mountpoints?
<diddledan> Rixon: I'd recommend doing the resize in a live-boot environment rather than off your working installation
<Rixon> diddledan: unfortunately we have no physical access to the machine, so no liveCD trickery, hence the online resize
<Rixon>  /dev, /proc, /sys and /run are all in tmpfs now and pivot_root worked fine
<diddledan> yes but did you unmount the old locations?
<Rixon> aaaah it looks like umount -a didn't catch them because they were still busy - thanks I think I should be able to pick it up from there ;)
<Rixon> dunno how I didn't see that haha
<daftykins> diddledan: i see your cat links and i raise you...
<daftykins> kittens in 4K! https://www.dropbox.com/s/50xmsuxadlinsy7/VID_20161219_133034.mp4?dl=0
<diddledan> naww, cute kitties
<daftykins> adding to the 2 year old son and wee dog, bit crazy that place now :>
<daftykins> ooh i just tried a bit more of Tron: Legacy out on the LG OLED, sooo nice looking \o/
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> with any luck the 2017 models will be cheaper ;)
<daftykins> i could totally move up from a 55" to a 65" ;)
<davmor2> daftykins: awwwwwwwwwwwwww
<daftykins> =]
<diddledan> I'm curious if anyone thinks snap could replace rather than compliment something like docker
<diddledan> (or lxd)
<diddledan> there's some kind of similarities in containers and snap's confinement model but implemented using different tech
<diddledan> and if not replace, how do you see snap complimenting docker or vicky verky
<davmor2> diddledan: there is a very nice summary that mark did let me see if I can find it
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> thankyou :-)
 * diddledan checks shuttleworth.com
<diddledan> apparently mark is into integrated product handling solutions :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z3yusiCOCk
<diddledan> lol @ docker and apt-get had a baby
<zmoylan-pi> a frankenstein kill it with fire baby...
<diddledan> don't you love that mark has to have a label telling people he's mark shuttleworth? :-p
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: besides the slide it's actually a good talk :)
<zmoylan-pi> could you pick top 20 silican valley faces out of a police line up? :-)
<diddledan> well it depends whether I saw them actually commit the murder or not
<zmoylan-pi> they wouldn't murder, they'd violate a eula :-P
<diddledan> even worse
<davmor2> diddledan: hope that helps resolve your issue for you :)
<diddledan> they might violate the GPL!
 * diddledan watching it
<zmoylan-pi> gpl 1, 2 or 3, or lgpl? there's not a lot gpl in that...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: it's one project where bits touch all of the above ;)
<diddledan> while we're talking about docker, I spun-up a few containers to support ubulog.com
<diddledan> there's two elasticsearch containers, a web container, and a kibana container (for my use only)
<diddledan> oh and a logstash container
<diddledan> knew there was one I was forgetting :-p
<diddledan> aah, and another container collecting the logs in the first place
<diddledan> so that's 5 containers and 1 kibana container
<diddledan> this guy's getting silly with it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4gH7e3mvFM (same conference as davmor2's link to Mark's explanation of snap vs docker)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-20
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning
<foobarry> afternoon
<penguin42> indeed
 * zmoylan-pi demands a recount
<penguin42> nope, still afternoon
<zmoylan-pi> bugger
<SuperMatt> I would like a second referendum to decide if this time of day should be called afternoon
<zmoylan-pi> i vote for hour of scampering
<foobarry> anyone watch that "find my phone" film on youtube?
<SuperMatt> I have not
<SuperMatt> TBH, I don't think it would be all that interesting
<davmor2> foobarry: is it the sequel to "Dude where's my car?"
<foobarry_> SuperMatt: it was. he put cerberus on his phone and tracked the thiefs lifestyle
<foobarry_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpN9NzO4Mo8
<foobarry_> i think you will enjoy it
<foobarry_> its also well made
 * diddledan hisses at the sunlight
 * diddledan goes back to bed
<diddledan> :-p
<SuperMatt> foobarry_: what did you learn about the theif?
<foobarry_> watch it, its good
<foobarry_> you learn he travels around a lot, gives appearance of religious muslim observance but obvs steals, and smokes weed and hangs out with junkie women for favours
<SuperMatt> So do you see him going to a mosque or something?
<foobarry_> watch the film :D
<foobarry_> they try a honey pot to get the phone nicked but al the thieves spidey senses are tingling
<foobarry_> it gets nicked on the amsterdam tube instead
<foobarry_> started apt-get upgrade on my raspberry pi about an hour ago...
<davmor2> diddledan: so what's the difference between snaps and docker :D
<diddledan> davmor2: it's all about the ephemeral nature of life and how the wind blows a grain of sand and a butterfly flaps its wings. or something.
<davmor2> diddledan: don't forget the fluffy bunnies
<diddledan> bunnies!
<davmor2> diddledan: you didn't watch it all did you
<diddledan> https://9p.io/plan9/glenda.html
<diddledan> I did!
<davmor2> diddledan: \o/
<davmor2> diddledan: not as good as Kittens but close enough
<diddledan> I think I kinda get it - snap is more like docker-lite for a single system, where docker is more cloudy
 * diddledan waves his arms in the air to simulate a cloud
<davmor2> you forgot the woooooOOOOOooooooo
<daftykins> weeee
<zmoylan-pi> woooo
<daftykins> evening all \o how goes it? :)
<zmoylan-pi> chilly
<daftykins> oh?
<zmoylan-pi> tis winter you know... or are you sitting in server room with the aircon turned off? :-)
<daftykins> just a bit tame down south here ;) 7 deg C overnight and 9 in the day right now i think
<penguin42> 3c up here at the moment
<zmoylan-pi> 7c with 87% humidity so feels colder
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-21
<ball> Is there someway to forcibly remount a filesystem as read/write?
<knightwise> good morning
<knightwise> clear
<ball> Hello knightwise
<knightwise> hey ball,
<knightwise> hows tricks
<ball> Not bad. I'm cold but I have to move the Elf on the Shelf before I go to bed.
<knightwise> ha :)
 * knightwise at work 
<knightwise> counting down to Xmass
<ball> I didn't work yesterday but I will today.
<ball> ...so I should probably go to bed now.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<knightwise> mornin
<brobostigon> morning
<SebthreeBQM10HD> knightwise, brobostigon morning girls
<knightwise> how are you peeps doing
<brobostigon> tired. and you knightwise ?
<knightwise> same her e,
<knightwise> been doing a charity marathon the last 2 weekends,
<knightwise> Doing 40 hours of radio presentation over four days is kinda tyring
<brobostigon> :(
<knightwise> its been fun and we reached the goal amount of cash we needed
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> but doing a 10 hour solo show (standing up with barely time to pee and eat .. pretty intense)
<knightwise> but we got to use open source tools so :) .. thats good
<brobostigon> ouchie.
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> but it was a lot of fun
<brobostigon> good good
<knightwise> been using butt and an icecast server to stream the audio to the different shops in the highstreet
<knightwise> (it was a local event) we did a youtube livestream, an icecast stream and we were live on all the speakers in the main highstreet
<brobostigon> good solutions.
<knightwise> yep
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> Too bad there is not install candidate in Ubuntu. Installed the app on my mac (worked fine).
<knightwise> there is an installer for the mac, for windows but you have to compile it from source on linux
<knightwise> bit of a letdown
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> hey flexiondotorg fancy meeting you here
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hmm
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: morning
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, morning
<flexiondotorg> davmor2, I know, right?
<knightwise> my mission for the holidays will consist of getting bluetooth to work on my xps13
<knightwise> apparently connecting a simple bluetooth mouse is a chore
<davmor2> knightwise: try via bluetoothctl instead of gnomebt
 * knightwise is working from home on friday 
<knightwise> gonna toy around it that
<knightwise> currently on my other machine (Win SP4)
<davmor2> knightwise: I found bluetoothctl gave a better representation of what was happening than gnomebt, by the way if you have a mouse that has power saving, xenial's + version of bluez now supports it so if it is that you move the mouse fine on intial connection but after xseconds of not being used it stops working try taping on the mouse button to wake the mouse
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/snoopers-charter-eu-court-ruling-illegal-investigatory-powers-act-emails-david-davis-a7488041.html pesky europeans interfering with snoopers charter... :-P
<SuperMatt> I know right? We voted out so we don't have their pesky laws and oversight!
<daftykins> 14KB/sec and below from digital ocean's apt repos - from a DO VPS, haha.
<knightwise> hey daftykins
<knightwise> I assume thats 'slow'
<zmoylan-pi> i used to get 14kp/s on a 14,400 modem when i downloaded a text file and compression kicked in iirc :-)
<knightwise> ouch
<daftykins> knightwise: do you not know units? :)
<daftykins> as it's a VPS of their own it's LAN based from their mirror server(s)
<daftykins> definitely wonky
<diddledan> daftykins: that's 100kbps
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> that's seriously wonky by several orders of magnitude - it should be getting  1000 times that
<daftykins> took about 4 goes to finish too
<diddledan> 100Mbps would be acceptible on a LAX
<diddledan> LAN
<daftykins> yip the actual 'download' was 12.5MB/sec as you'd expect
<diddledan> weird
<diddledan> blame a noisy neighbour
<zmoylan-pi> someone was wiggling the network cables again
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> maybe the cleaner was using the vacuum machine and causing interference
<daftykins> hrmm hoping to get given a nice little case and put together a cheapish machine in it for fun in the new year, but with those new AMD CPUs coming it might be worth holding out and not just going straight for an intel setup as usual
<daftykins> it'll have an old core 2 duo setup in it, but that won't be worth keeping :)
<zmoylan-pi> the electro jammer suck master 3000... best east european hoover ever :-P
<daftykins> sounds like a guitar
<zmoylan-pi> probably has an attachment to do that to...
<diddledan> scaleway.com looks interesting - treating bare-metal systems similarly to cloud vps-ish systems
<penguin42> diddledan: Openstack's Ironic can do that as well; but yes scaleway is kind of nice for providing
<daftykins> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151905174284 popped this guy in a clients Lenovo Monday morning as he'd gained a vertical bar of inverted colours, worked a treat :) had to update the BIOS though for brightness control to work with it
<daftykins> Â£45 is pretty good for a 1080p panel in a 12.5" machine
<diddledan> was the old panel a lower res? if so that's a nice upgrade too
<daftykins> Yeah 1366x768, Lenovo won't sell to the channel islands so it was the best spec i could get from, i think dabs, at the time. Said client is quite old though so he wouldn't get on with high res until the OSs sorted out scaling a bit more :)
<diddledan> techy lass I follow on the twits: "Today's mission: buy a router. For woodworking. ð·ð»ââï¸"
<daftykins> ho-hoooo plot twist
<zmoylan-pi> well they're making laptops you can use as chisels these days they're so thin and sharp... was only a matter of time...
<diddledan> yeah that's an evolution over the nokia hammers
<zmoylan-pi> striking fear into terminators everywhere...
<daftykins> fella that was putting that TV up with me was telling me that kids these days in woodworking use a router for the door frame hinge cut-outs instead of the old ways, does sound a bit shocking
<daftykins> i had to look them up just now to understand how you'd even apply a powered tool to that task
<zmoylan-pi> when all you have is a router...
<diddledan> that's shocking
<daftykins> but a chippy without a chisel? oy :P
<daftykins> plus imagine a proper site where the electricians are messing about, your chisel won't be after plugging in :>
<zmoylan-pi> probably banned by health and safety...
<daftykins> some drunk kids decided to climb the scaffold on the building opposite me at about 1am last night, oy
<diddledan> well they did put guards on circular saws
<knightwise> Dont see why
<knightwise> stupid people dont need to count to 10
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that's probably a benefit for splinters flying off too
<diddledan> I'm surprised they haven't done the same with chainsaws for tree surgeons
<diddledan> my cousin is one of those
<zmoylan-pi> thankfully i.t. only needs a few simple tools... https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/enjoy-your-time-off-with-the-best-of-work-happens-2016-65-photos-210.jpg?quality=85&strip=info&w=600
<diddledan> it's a shame that now magnetic media is going/gone away that you can't have a bit of fun with a magnet or degauss anymore
<knightwise> What is the best package to install when you want to play with Texttospeech ?
<knightwise> I want to train my pi to "say" things
<knightwise> train = Program
<diddledan> did mycroft release their popeybot tts engine yet?
<diddledan> if so you can get your pi to be popey
 * diddledan waits for the nick mention to raise him from his slumber/work
<diddledan> might be out having fun I guess
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> engaged in hand to hand shopping...
<xnox_test> xnox: test
<diddledan> error
<zmoylan-pi> +++DISCONNECT+++
<xnox> trying out Ubuntu Gnome and I did not receive any notifcations =(
<penguin42> diddledan: Of course the irc mention causes the kettle to switch on, it'll take a while before the coffee is ready to wake him
<diddledan> DIALING 08008880123
<daftykins> be neat if you could use a test channel for that, xnox
 * xnox is sad with hexchat
<zmoylan-pi> boooooo boooooop, boooooooooooo booooobildy booooobildy boooooooop
<diddledan> WWEEEEEEEEEEEEE
<diddledan> ERK OOOO EEEEE blip
<daftykins> i wonder what a modern VDSL2 device sounds like if you converted the frequencies to audible ones
<diddledan> fifth symfony
<zmoylan-pi> strangely i once had a soundcard go wonky and try and play the network packets meant for the network card as sound.... sounded like a dolphin in a blender....
<diddledan> they found that the best way to send data is by embedding it into music
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: lol
<diddledan> it got the wrong DMA settings?
<xnox_test> xnox: test 2
<zmoylan-pi> the most unpleasent noise ever to come out of a pc short of modern music
<xnox> yeah, now works \o/
<xnox_test> xnox test 3
<daftykins> xnox: great, now do it somewhere else.
 * diddledan links zmoylan-pi to some beiber
<xnox> lol
<diddledan> daftykins: test
<xnox> i'm done
<daftykins> yeah this time.
<zmoylan-pi> it had the right settings but they were kinda.... shared as i wasn't playing network games and it should have ignored the packets
<daftykins> idiot.
<diddledan> I've got this stuck in my head right now: "my hump my hump my hump. my lovely lady humps"
<diddledan> it's just those two lines repeating and I can't stop
<zmoylan-pi> this is the song that's been running around my head for past few days... the killers - human https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4jR9P9YJGo
<daftykins> i heard a twitch streamer saying that, not heard the 'song' though
<popey> diddledan: zzzz
<diddledan> :-)
<foobarry_> "Weâre making some improvements to the way we manage your broadband connection. Workâs already started. Itâll take about 10 days and weâll make sure any disruption is kept to a minimum.
<foobarry_> All we ask is that you leave your router on at all times. And that's it.
<foobarry_> After the work is over, youâll be one step closer to a faster, more reliable broadband connection. "
<diddledan> o_O
<foobarry_> from my ISP. absolutely no clue as to what they are doing
<popey> which isp?
<foobarry_> hello, here's an email , to say we're doing a thing. a secret thing, bye
<foobarry_> talktalk
<diddledan> and they're taking 10 days of which 4 are weekend and bank holidays
<popey> lulz
<foobarry_> ah, found a FAQ page
<foobarry_> To make sure you're always getting the most out of your broadband, we use something called Dynamic Line Management; or DLM. It's a system that lets us pro-actively monitor your line when your router is switched on.
<foobarry_> In order to manage your line better and give you the best connection possible, we've improved our current DLM system.
<foobarry_> We've already moved your line so there's nothing you need to do, just leave the hard work to us. Your line will go through a short stabilisation period, and after this you'll be able to enjoy a more reliable broadband connection.
<foobarry_> The stabilisation period is when we test your broadband line to find the best possible speed for you. We do this by monitoring your line during the day and making changes at night.
<diddledan> aah, it's the automated "initial connection" stabilisation
<diddledan> seems they've reset your line to unprofiled so it needs to reprofile itself
<foobarry_> :'(
<foobarry_> i'm not a new customer
<foobarry_> (wish i wasn't a customer at all)
<daftykins> so they're probably putting an MSAN in or something
<daftykins> it wouldn't need to retrain your line without the route changing
<foobarry_> it might be cos i got a new router
<foobarry_> probably need to run speedtest every day
<daftykins> no that'd happen by itself anyway
<daftykins> nah
<foobarry_> however now my powersaving bug is fixed i am so happy
<daftykins> well only if you want to see a difference, but you should look at line sync stats instead of speed tests
<foobarry_> https://www.originbroadband.com/packages/home-broadband-and-phone these guys are cheap
<foobarry_> they supply an asus router, just checking on the model
<foobarry_> DSL-N16
<foobarry_> single band AFAIK
<daftykins> do you consider getting one with a service to be a priority?
 * popey hugs his openwrt netgear wndr3700v2
<daftykins> very old specs ;)
<zmoylan-pi> if it ain't hacked.... :-P
<davmor2> popey: mine died :(
<davmor2> popey: sticking with the VM router for now
<foobarry_> i can't use VM for personal reasons
<popey> i have 3
<popey> bought a spare on fleabay
<popey> don't want these to die and not have a good replacement
<popey> ooh, pub o'clock
<popey> o/
<foobarry_> i think thats called stockpiling
<foobarry_> dr prepper
<foobarry_> pretty cheap though
<foobarry_> how much did you pay popey ?
<daftykins> don't buy an old turd like that, foobarry_
<foobarry_> lol
<daftykins> it's 802.11n tops
<foobarry_> i'll probabyl stick with my free huawei one now that xbox doesn't disconnect anymore
<foobarry_> whats faster than 802.11n?
<daftykins> 802.11ac
<daftykins> there's also a 60GHz band for 802.11ad emerging now
<daftykins> that'd be nigh-on useless in the home, mind you
<foobarry_> what ac devices do you have?
<diddledan> I've got a ubiquity Unifi AC wireless point. pretty impressive signal distance
<foobarry_> but what ac wifi devices?
<diddledan> phone, tablet
<foobarry_> :o
<diddledan> not sure if my mac has ac
<foobarry_> what tablet?
<diddledan> ipad
<daftykins> then when they're -ac you also need to factor in the spatial stream count, as a router in the low end 2:2 config (like mine) gives two transmit and receive streams, so 433Mb x 2 = 866Mb max
<daftykins> (that includes MAC layer, so real world i've seen ~45MB/sec)
<foobarry_> pretty sure i don't have any ac cards
<daftykins> i thought it was connecting at -ac when you were having your wiffy woes
<foobarry_> my work laptop has it however
<diddledan> isn't it amazing that non-techy people cite "a database" as the solution to everything
<diddledan> e.g. Donald Trump
<foobarry_> but they actually mean excel?
<daftykins> derderbers
<diddledan> daftykins: erhmagherd
<foobarry_> i find databases probably the dullest thing in IT
<daftykins> foobarry_: agreed!
<diddledan> "we need to create a database!"
<daftykins> oy when at my old College we had to make a video rental store, first time in Excel then second time in Access - huge cringe.
<daftykins> a mate of mine still tries to apply such A-Level IT lessons to real life, it's really cringeworthy
<foobarry_> punch card reader?
<foobarry_> sounds like the PHBosses here
<daftykins> http://people.com/pets/cat-freed-from-several-pounds-of-matted-fur-at-pennsylvania-shelter/
<foobarry_> retro pie looks cool. if only i could find my ps joypad and usb adapter
<daftykins> mrow
<daftykins> poor kitty
<daftykins> that's the one that's getting integrated into Kodi i think o0 i forget
<diddledan> when someone says something like "we need to create a database" I always think of this: https://youtu.be/hkDD03yeLnU
<daftykins> oh my word that's a crime
<daftykins> an interface interface you say, tell me moar
<diddledan> I love trotting this one out, too: https://youtu.be/O2rGTXHvPCQ
<daftykins> ah yes, ships
<foobarry_> i have an aruba enterprise AP. they usually need connecting to a controller. i wonder if openwrt works on them
<daftykins> search their database
<foobarry_> allegedly the definitely need a controller, hence useless
<daftykins> *nod*
<penguin42> do others have a /usr/@DATADIRNAME@ - it seems to be from gnome-system-tools
<penguin42> ah lp 1617468
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1617468 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "Package contains files in /usr/@DATADIRNAME@/locale" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617468
<popey> foobarry: my "old turd" cost about 20 quid, and the lack of ac isn't a problem for me.
<foobarry_> what can a pi zero realistically run using retro pie?
<foobarry_> snes?
<foobarry_> prob not much newer
<foobarry_> ?
<daftykins> probably next to nowt, yeah
<daftykins> cor the queue at Boots was crazy :P
<popey> I'd imagine there's plenty of old arcade games it can play
<popey> nes, snes, genesis, 2600
<popey> guess I could test that by putting my sd card in a pi zero and seeing what runs and what doesn't
<penguin42> really the CPU in a pi zero isn't that bad by comparison with the old machines being emulated
<daftykins> new kernel engaged!
<popey> yeah
<penguin42> it's significanty more beefy a CPU than what I used for my beeb emulator and I think my arc emulator
<popey> coming up on 20 years old now, is mame
<popey> pretty sure I was using it back in 1997 on a 486 or so
<penguin42> popey: Yeh I did my Beebem back on a P90 in '94
<popey> hehe
<popey> i find emulators endlessly fascinating
<penguin42> yes, they're great fun
<popey> i wrote a simple 6502 one for the pc back in that era, to help teach assembler on pcs
<popey> wrote it in pascal as that was all i had at the time :)
<penguin42> ewww
<popey> yeah yeah :)
<popey> my first pascal compiler came on a floppy disk from one of those catalogs you send off for
<daftykins> what's really the main task of creating an emulator?
<popey> used to spend hours pouring over the catalog for software I "needed"
<penguin42> daftykins: Debugging the weird corners
<popey> heh, yeah, everyone can do the main cpu instructions, it's those odd undocumented things that catch you
<popey> or wierd interrupts or io
<daftykins> i did watch a video the other day that spoke of how old NES cartridges used to add upgraded chips sometimes for say, better sound or so
<daftykins> (i never had one of those)
<popey> i was on a flight back from the US recently and got chatting to the guy next to me. Turned out he was one of the four original designers of the BBC Micro
<penguin42> daftykins: For example on my beebem I found elite scanned a keyboard row that didn't exist and happened not to hit a problem on real hardware; someone found after I released it a bug in one of my instructions whose only obvious bug was that explosions didn't disappear in Elite
<popey> spent the next 9 hours drinking wine and chatting about the old days of computing
<popey> best flight ever
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> daftykins: A commecial emulator I worked on had a bug where the italics in a commercial app tilted in the wrong direction
<popey> hah
<popey> I loved hearing all the intricate details of the innards of the bbc micro directly from one of the designers. Was super fascinating
<popey> wish I'd recorded it :)
<daftykins> :>
<popey> it's shame there aren't many photos of the team or the bbc micro from the early days
<popey> turns out people didn't take many photos back then, what with not having smartphones :)
<daftykins> there's always that weird office one with the polaroid!
<popey> Just played Salamander (Life Force in USA) on my Pi3 with MAME. It's amazing to me that it slows down in exactly the same way at the same point in the game as I remember form 30 years ago.
<popey> ooh, didnt realise it had a 68K at the heart
<penguin42> popey: They might be matching timing of the original CPU when possible
<popey> yeah, impressive
<popey> I like the original experience.
<daftykins> :>
<penguin42> popey: A fun one on the Beeb, in Elite they flip the video registers at a given scanline to switch between high res and lower-res/more colours - when it runs the disk it gets some interrupts and you get a little bit of tearing on that line; it was fun to see that happen during emulation
<popey> holy freole! those salamander boards go for loads of money
<popey> haha, nice!
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Life-Force-Konami-Jamma-Arcade-Circuit-Board-PCB-Lifeforce-Salamander-NW-/322270790127?
<popey> i have that board!
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R-TYPE-1987-Irem-Nintendo-Guaranteed-Working-JAMMA-Arcade-PCB-SHIPS-FREE-/112144829057
<popey> and that one :)
<popey> that's the pention sorted ;)
<knightwise> downloading the latest version of Pixel ,
<knightwise> see if I can get it running on my netbook
<popey> intereting that the pi foundation are into desktop linux all of a sudden
<knightwise> true. But it would make great distro for a netbook
 * knightwise wonders if it would work on my old eeepc
<daftykins> give me that thing, i'll euthanise it for you
<knightwise> diddledan: GET AWAY FROM MY BABY !
<daftykins> XD
<knightwise> Download pretty slow ... gonna take a while
<popey> there's a torrent it seems :)
 * popey starts torrent to see how busy it is
<knightwise> grr
<knightwise> me still fighting with bluetooth mouse
<zmoylan-pi> 400 quatloos on the newcomer ::star trek fighting music::
<knightwise> Lol
<knightwise> hmm i seem to have the broadcom bluetooth adapter
<zmoylan-pi> broadcom.... words to strike fear into every linux user...
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-22
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: indeed
<SuperMatt> morning
<knightwise> Good morning
<SebthreeBQM10HD> morning
<knightwise> Just a few more days until collecive pandemonium
<SuperMatt> The pandemonium will be today and tomorrow as people panic buy their gifts
<knightwise> God i HATE that time of year
<SuperMatt> ah it's fine if you don't take it too seriously
<knightwise> hmm.. the only thing i want for Xmas is to be left alone for a couple of hours and get to tinker with my linux lapto
<knightwise> p
<knightwise> AND make a talking clock from my raspberry pi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> uhmm did some christmas shopping ysterday so thats done
<knightwise> I honestly dont know what i want for christmass
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but yeah its about companies making money out of people, people having an excuse to get drunk etc. the religious aspect is mostly dead unless going to church
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and about lieing to kids that their is santa
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh sorry for breaking that to any believers here :d
 * knightwise serving christmass diner to the poor on christmass eve
<knightwise> been spending the last 2 weekends raising money for charity by doing a live radio show in the city
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah and excuse for people to eat turkey etc
 * SebthreeBQM10HD signed some sort of don't eat turkey at christms thing with other people at a vegan festival last month, which i guess would have little effct
 * SebthreeBQM10HD went veggie not vegan, and proud of oneself for doing that
<SebthreeBQM10HD> that was meant to be /me
<SebthreeBQM10HD> knightwise, And Christmas is also meant to be happpy families together uh
 * knightwise does not have a happy family :)
<knightwise> I do have an adorable wife, 2 cute doggies and a cat.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> knightwise, mine is okish, but not that great
<SebthreeBQM10HD> see most of them enough anyway, so christmas isnt special in that sense as well reallt
<SebthreeBQM10HD> y
<foobarry_> son was puking last night. some swine sent their darling to school on the last day knowing they were sick
<foobarry_> spare apple thing at work. can i install linux on it? model seems to be a I5-4570R all in one monitor imac thing
<knightwise> l
<knightwise> sorry
<knightwise> keyboard barf
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> hey davmor2
<foobarry_> which is the option key on mac? alt or cmd?
<foobarry_> ah, alt key
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry_> http://imgur.com/a/CoSB6 ah thats bette
<foobarry_> anyone got a lenovo 2 a10 tablet?
 * zmoylan-pi checks. sounds familiar
<davmor2> foobarry_: I got the tab 3
<zmoylan-pi> ah, a8...
<zmoylan-pi> lenovo tab 2 a8
<foobarry_> seems that lenovo hobble it and you can't install multi user
<zmoylan-pi> lenovo do seem to be on a how can we shed market share effort recently
<davmor2> foobarry_: you can on the mine
<davmor2> foobarry_: http://www.argos.co.uk/product/5497797?store=136&cmpid=GS001&_$ja=tsid:59158|cid:598756200|agid:24300943250|tid:pla-210099617810|crid:86858465210|nw:g|rnd:10778687078746075859|dvc:c|adp:1o2&gclid=CJC8x5voh9ECFdEK0wodR5QGzg
<davmor2> nice speakers too
<foobarry_> i can gt my ps1 controllers working on zsnes but not lakka :(
<daftykins> tum te tum
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/22/on_call/
<daftykins> i'm sure the fans will enjoy that one
<brobostigon> lolz.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> u
<penguin42> r
<popey> 1
<brobostigon> u
<davmor2> popey: has was rogue one?
<popey> I liked it
<davmor2> popey: well that's 3 to 1, feel free to beast vigo for lying ;)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> h
<foobarry_> this lakka emulation distro thing is great
<daftykins> hrmm i started looking into Sky Q for a client, turns out Watchdog did a program on it last night, so i've snagged it :D
<daftykins> oh dear the customers who tried it out have connection issues... but lo and behold they're using the silly things over wifi, oy! get a cable in there - job done :P
<zmoylan-pi> but the future is wireless daftykins, especially when it keeps those i'm affected by wifi radiation people away... :-)
<daftykins> it's really not XD
<zmoylan-pi> it's the new 'paperless office'
<daftykins> yep that Watchdog program was rubbish
<daftykins> might be fine at my clients where everything can be wired
<daftykins> got a fully populated 24 port gigabit core switch in the basement and had to start adding cheap extra ones around in other rooms :P
<daftykins> must be 4 x AP's now too
<ali1234> a few weeks ago watchdog had a piece on broadband speed
<ali1234> they advised, if your broadband is not fast enough, do the following:
<ali1234> 1. make sure you have installed all the updates for windows
<ali1234> 2. make sure your router isn't right next to your microwave
<ali1234> 3. ring up your ISP and ask for a better router
<daftykins> genius :D
<daftykins> haha an aunt and uncle in Canada sent me an e-card, but it requires flash...
<zmoylan-pi> it's a phishing trap... :-P
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> if your internet is not fast enough change the wifi password to something the kids won't guess... :-P
<daftykins> muahahaha
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-23
<SuperMatt> morning
<knightwise> good morning everyon e
<SuperMatt> Is that e special?
<knightwise>  yes
<knightwise> it takes the special bus to school e ver e morning
<knightwise> it needs a lot of personal space i think
<knightwise> hmm 16.10 has become stricter in adding repositories that dont have a release file ?
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<knightwise> morning everyone
<knightwise> my quest to get bluetooth working on my xps13 is starting to require an elf and a dwarf
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
 * brobostigon offers his wizard powers,
<knightwise> getting nowhere fast with this broadcom bluetooth adapter i'm afraid
 * brobostigon casts a magic spell on it, 
<brobostigon> :(
<zmoylan-1i> i thought the xps 13 was supposed to be good with linux?
<knightwise> it seedtried blueman , tried 16.10 ...
<knightwise> it sees the mouse but wont pair with it
<davmor2> knightwise: what does bluetoothctl list with the mouse
<knightwise> device 30:59:B7:76:45:DA Microsoft Sculpt Confort Mouse
<zmoylan-1i> maybe download and try a few other live distros might see if it's hardware/software?
<davmor2> knightwise: and what happens if you do pair 30:59:B7:76:45:DA
<knightwise> Failed to pair: org.bluez.Error.ConnectionAttemptFailed
<davmor2> knightwise: what version of ubuntu is this on
<knightwise> 1610
<davmor2> knightwise: okay do you have another bt mouse you could try it on because here is pairs fine for me.
<knightwise> i have 2 ms mice (who did not work)
<knightwise> have an apple magic mouse but that isnt even detected
<davmor2> knightwise: let me see if the bt guru is about if he is I'll point you in his general direction for you
<knightwise> thanx Ã¨
<knightwise> gonna see if i can find a bluetooth mouse from another brand in the shop somewhere
<knightwise> perhaps i can try a logitech one
<knightwise> funny thing is , i have my Bose exteral bluetooth speaker and it wont detect that
<davmor2> knightwise: hmmm I wonder if it is a driver issue then seem odd, do you have a usb bluetooth dongle?
<brobostigon> that reminds me, i got different results when i got my bt headset with the builtin bluetooth adaptor to a usb one, seemed strange really.
<knightwise> davmor2: could it be firmware ?
<davmor2> knightwise: potentially
<davmor2> knightwise: can you have a word with koza in #bluez channel
<knightwise> thanx davmor2
<davmor2> knightwise: no worries dude
<davmor2> knightwise: be prepared for a headache of a debugging session though
<knightwise> hmmm
 * knightwise knows what me wants for xmass
<davmor2> headache tablets
<zmoylan-pi> well make sure you add them to the crimbo list of things you can't buy christmas day so have some in the house... milk, bread, butter, batteries, asprin, rennie, plasters...
<davmor2> knightwise: any better now?
<awilkins> Wowzer, found video that Totem plays but VLC can't
<davmor2> awilkins: liar ;)
 * zmoylan-pi passes out the pitchforks and torches
<penguin42> given the weather today we may need the torches
<awilkins> It's encoded with h265 of some sort
<knightwise> davmor2: looks like its a problem with the mouse , its an LE mouse
<knightwise> so i'm off to find a "non-le" mouse that connects over bluetooth
<DJones> Evening
 * DJones leaves this here for popey http://nerdist.com/theres-finally-a-video-game-where-you-play-as-a-cat/
<davmor2> Merry Christmas all see you next year
<DJones> penguin42: Given the weather today according to BBC, its a good job they're mobing from the metoffice as a provider of  data as it was completely wrong, 4 hours of 50MPH winds turned into 30 minutes of wind at around half that speed, and 4 hours of heavy rain turned into 10 minutes of heavy rain
<penguin42> DJones: We've had a few bursts of heavy rain and wind
<penguin42> DJones: Been going on for quite a while, but each burst seems quite short
<zmoylan-pi> i was expecting dublin bay to have impressive waves with all the wind but it was quiet calm
 * daftykins strolls in
<daftykins> cor those wordpress hammering bots are really getting naughty :P
<daftykins> i doubled a clients broadband speed this morning with just a few seconds prodding! \o/
<zmoylan-pi> blocked netflix? :-P
<DJones> daftykins: Is that still the pm spam?
<knightwise> Steam appears to be down (according to slashdot)
<DJones> daftykins: If so Set /mode yournick +R seems to work ok
<daftykins> nah bots are hammering the xmlrpc.php file on my wordpress instance again, seen it before on other folks' servers
<penguin42> teg sineibe ekse saud tgat ub abitger wubdiw
 * daftykins wonders if penguin42 is on the sauce early ;)
<penguin42> <sigh> no I think I was misaligned
<daftykins> ah, doh!
<penguin42> if you move my right hand one character it should be right
<DJones> penguin42: Thats what you get using a swedish keyboard layouy
<DJones> t
<penguin42> bork bork....
<daftykins> i think it's about time i nipped out to pick up a celebratory Toblerone!
<zmoylan-pi> make sure you get a real toblerone and not on of the new ones with big gaps
<zmoylan-pi> check the weight on the side
<daftykins> i'm not sure how to tell!
<daftykins> ah 150g is the modified one, 170g is the original
<penguin42> give it a couple of days and you'll be able to get cream eggs
<daftykins> 400g > 360g & 170g > 150g
<zmoylan-pi> 400g and 170g bars have normal gaps
<daftykins> i think that's the most important piece of research i've done all year!
<zmoylan-pi> either that or give them a squeeze... make yourself really popular in the shop... :-P
<daftykins> nevermind the BT NTE5 telephone master sockets i was just glaring at...
<zmoylan-pi> accept no toblerone lite!! fight the system \o
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> not sure if i linked this shirt, it's amusing - https://www.redbubble.com/people/cosmogorilla/works/21144265-obey-sudo
<daftykins> presume it's a parody of a Soviet Russia era piece of propaganda?
<zmoylan-pi> i saw that i think in another channel... very soviet
<daftykins> hmm i can't find the original
<zmoylan-pi> pretty much every poster produced in 30s and 40s
<zmoylan-pi> there are probably trucks on the road right now delivering creme eggs to storage for shops.  but probably the new recipe versions which are orrible
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I never liked them anyway, too much goo not enough chocolate
<daftykins> that's why you buy 8
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> i liked them as a kid, but since i was 20 or so found them too sweet
<zmoylan-pi> and they got a lot smaller
<daftykins> mmm that's probably similar to how i find age is making me more sensitive to caffeine now... how sad!
<daftykins> sad that i can't down the coffee, i mean
<zmoylan-pi> that's why there are so many tea blends so you can find the perfect one as you age
<daftykins> ah har!
<zmoylan-pi> carrie fisher has heart attack... ::shakes fist at 2016::
<penguin42> still alive apparently?
<daftykins> D:
<zmoylan-pi> yes, taken off commercial flight alive but seemingly a major attack so not good...
<daftykins> London stole her heart
<penguin42> close to landing
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-24
<penguin42> DJones: Looks like the winds were worthy of some warning; it bought down a large tree on a passing car not far from here
<zmoylan-pi> hope no one was hurt
<penguin42> reports say someone had some nasty but fixable injuries
<zmoylan-pi> thank goodness for car safety features
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> DJones: :)
<popey> DJones: that cat game looks great
<knightwise> morning peeps
<popey> yo
<knightwise> hey popey :)
<brobostigon> hi :)
<knightwise> Off to christmas dinner
<knightwise> that is WORKING :)
<knightwise> preparing and serving food for 40 families in need..
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> happy christmas to all \o
<zmoylan-pi> merry crimbo to one and all o/
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-25
<zmoylan-pi> christmas day, the only time of the year when no one so much as blinks when you have a selection box for brekkie :-)
<SuperEngineer> Wishing you all a very peaceful & loving Doctor Who Christmas Special Day ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> and happy birthday sir isaac newtown who's invention of the cat flap saved the patience of millions of people who would otherwise this time of the year be standing holding the door open for a cat who can't decide to go or stay
<SuperEngineer> [and there would be no "dog stuck in cat flap" videos on youtube]
<zmoylan-pi> that too
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> and special mention to this kitty who opens the door THEN walks through the cat flap... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPK382eJIns
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<penguin42> Hey Seb
<SebthreeBQM10HD> penguin42, hi
<brobostigon> new dr who, :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-18
<ali1234> my favourite is the "reservoir dogs" episode with o'brien going undercover
<ali1234> http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Honor_Among_Thieves_(episode)
<ARW387> âââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETbiorn: andylockran czajkowski james_w` yaiyan lubotu3` Laney Laurenceb twinsen^wee nhandler Oli ali1234 Myrtti aptanet Dave mcs_ popey webpigeon pendulum organic ubot9 acheronuk tomred Nafallo BobMottram[m] KrimZon_2 foobarry StevenR_ m0nkey_ Seeker` evildespot daf
<ARW387> âââââââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETbdupgjnumq: SuperMatt acheronuk evildespot Laney arsenip webpigeon tomred ali1234 StevenR_ daftykins Myrtti zmoylan nhandler popey KrimZon_2 hazrpg foobarry mcs_ flexiondotorg DJones Darkstar_ m6lpi BobMottram[m] ubot9 aptane
<ARW387> ââââââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETnfzec: popey arsenip Cueball andylockran foobarry StevenR_ Darkstar_ tomred yaiyan SuperMatt GregKNicholson[m organic higgins czajkowski ubot9 ujjain lubotu3` acheronuk nhandler evildespot flexiondotorg twinsen^wee pendulum zleap BobMo
 * m0nkey_ sighs
<kazz556> ââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETpvdtmd: ahayzen BobMottram[m] ujjain nhandler NET||abuse Chrisfu Nafallo pendulum ikonia 92AACJTTI ali1234 Hirppa evildespot Lcawte Darkstar_ m6lpi Azelphur twinsen^wee aptanet Chaser WillMoogle directhex Laurenceb ilbelkyr chrisccoulson stryx` Unit193 StevenR_ xnox GregKNic
<kazz556> ââââââââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETsstxfzwn: Lcawte StevenR_ ikonia pendulum 92AACJTTI dogmatic69 lubotu3` stryx` m6lpi organic mcs_ Cueball Chrisfu BobMottram[m] diddledan GregKNicholson[m Chaser ali1234 NET||abuse Laurenceb WillMoogle Nafallo twins
<Nafallo> o/
 * Nafallo looks for brobostigon 
<SuperMatt> morning all
<SuperMatt> I'm moving in to my last week at work :)
 * brobostigon spots Nafallo 
<Nafallo> brobostigon: no keep-alive this morning? :-)
<brobostigon> nope, :)
<foobarry> do processes stopped with ctrl-Z consume memory resources? i guess so
<SuperMatt> They will still hold on to the memory they already had
<foobarry> yep, just checked , thx
<foobarry> assumed so
<SuperMatt> All right dudes, you have to entertain me during my last week
<foobarry> microbit 8.50 from ebay
<foobarry> QES
<foobarry> QED
<SuperMatt> Don't know what that is
<zmoylan> a microbit is a tiny cpu with a few k of ram and few k of storage.  it was designed for school kids and all kids in uk schools were given one.
<SuperMatt> I see
<SuperMatt> wouldn't arrive in time, and I don't want to put more pain on the postal and courrier services
<brobostigon> maplins sell them i believe.
<SuperMatt> oh, well there is a maplin close to me
<foobarry> they are wasted on kids
<foobarry> they have accelerometers, GPIO and other bits on me
<foobarry> them
<SuperMatt> hmmm, sounds like it could be fun to tinker with
<foobarry> oh and they can communicate with other micro bits on RF frequencies
<brobostigon> and can be battery powered.
<SuperMatt> got a display and wifi?
<brobostigon> 5x5 led matrix, bluetooth(no wifi).
<SuperMatt> dang, I want something with wifi
<SuperMatt> and a bigger screen
<foobarry> pi zero w?
<foobarry> with blinkt
<SuperMatt> probably something like that would go down nicely
<foobarry> thinking of getting the redmi 5 phone on release
<foobarry> to replace moto g 1st gen
<foobarry> althoug i like the screen size of the moto g
<foobarry> everything seems bigger now
<daftykins> nasty train derailment in the US :( http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/train-derails-onto-i-5-in-pierce-county-all-lanes-blocked/665619813
<diddledan> dang
<diddledan> apparently the train only started service today?
<daftykins> well i fear it won't be finishing it
<daftykins> also saw a claim the track in that area was recently 'upgraded' to handle higher speeds
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-19
<m0nkey_> Wooh. I'm going to Las Vegas :)
<Maefs> for what purpose?
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<foobarry> has anyone tried minecraft for pi?
<SuperMatt> I wonder if I can just go for a nap in the office
<zmoylan-pi> i used to 'check the cables' under my desk.... have one foot against door so people entering would wake me up... :-)
<SuperMatt> Alas this is an open plan office
<foobarry> what they gonna do..sack you?
<SuperMatt> true dat
<m0nkey_> Happy Tuesday
<zmoylan-pi> it's not a monday so it's off to a good start :-)
<diddledan> twofer tuseday?
<zmoylan-pi> two what for tuesday?
<diddledan> things
<diddledan> usually pizza
<zmoylan-pi> so that thingy and the other thingy...
<zmoylan-pi> eeeew, can't stand pizza
<diddledan> hand in your badge!
<SuperMatt> Are you even human?
<zmoylan-pi> which one? i have a few...
<SuperMatt> What do you eat when you go to a tech conference?
<zmoylan-pi> junk food, bk, mcdonalds, raid the occasional vending machine...
<diddledan> pizza == junk food, QED
<zmoylan-pi> gas station sushi is junk food but i don't indulge in that either...
<diddledan> there's a difference between junk food and food that is junk
<zmoylan-pi> ...or from a junk... :-)
<daftykins> http://uk.crucial.com/gbr/en/CT1000MX500SSD1 first 64-layer NAND SSD from Crucial, not a bad price
<Maefs> it's not
<daftykins> funny, reviewers claim it is
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-20
<ali1234> Under 10x the price of HDD... not bad
<SuperMatt> morning all
<foobarry> morning
<foobarry> https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/19/16797358/microsoft-google-chrome-windows-store-removal
<foobarry> good old MS anti compete tactics again
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<m0nkey_> Greetings
<zmoylan-pi> seasonal greetings even... ::passes the mince pies::
<m0nkey_> Ooh, not had one of them in a while.
<m0nkey_> Don't get them in Canada :(
<foobarry> mince pies are one of those things that taste lovely home-made, but shop ones are awful montrosities
<foobarry> i just emptied the office fridge
<foobarry> gross
<foobarry> really gross
<zmoylan-pi> someone had to drink those banana sandwiches... :-)
<foobarry> chicken legs from september
<foobarry> coleslaw from last yr
<zmoylan-pi> you could put the coleslaw to work in hr...
<overcrocker_> overcrocker
<daftykins> umm hi
 * diddledan tickles daftykins 
<daftykins> \o
<diddledan> o/
<daftykins> how goes it sir? all set for some holiday?
<diddledan> aye.
<diddledan> off to the parentals in a few
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> Waaaaaales
<diddledan> nah, 'ampshire
<daftykins> oic
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-21
<warni521> âââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEibcinmjnlg: ujjai hazrpg twinsen^wee âââ
<warni521> âââââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEwxelqzpyf: ujjai twinsen^we
<warni521> ââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEyolcznoho: twinsen^wee hazrpg ujjai ââââ
<warni521> âââââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEmzufiotw: twinsen^wee ujjai
<warni521> âââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEfrfexmxreh: ujjai twinsen^wee hazrpg âââ
<warni521> âââââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEuadvpibjj: ujjai hazrpg twi
<warni521> ââââââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEubohx: hazrpg twi
<warni521> ââââââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEpxjlrvsq: twinsen
<warni521> âââââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEtiyev: twinsen^wee hazrpg u
<warni521> ââââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEwadroj: twinsen^wee ujjai hazrpg
<warni521> âââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEdofjxrxao: hazrpg twinsen^wee ujjai âââ
<warni521> âââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEobtuniilna: hazrpg ujjai twinsen^wee â
<warni521> âââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEkrjyg: twinsen^wee hazrpg ujjai âââââââ,
<warni521> âââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEpnrry: twinsen^wee hazrpg ujjai â,
<warni521> ââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEwyxzkizrxr: ujjai hazrpg twinsen^wee ââââââ
<warni521> ââââââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEgyjoehqia: ujjai
<warni521> âââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEqshtmixfjj: twinsen^wee ujjai hazrpg âââ
<warni521> âââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEzqpsr: twinsen^wee hazrpg ujjai âââ,
<warni521> ââââââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODElhebifw: twinsen^
<warni521> ââââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEryyhcdizr: twinsen^wee ujjai hazrpg
<warni521> ââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEnopdq: ujjai hazrpg twinsen^wee ââââââ,
<warni521> âââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEourhsihvrd: twinsen^wee hazrpg ujjai âââââââ
<warni521> ââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEcjoyslw: twinsen^wee ujjai hazrpg ââââââââ
<warni521> âââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEmmvusild: hazrpg ujjai twinsen^wee âââ
<warni521> ââââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEjzhuyudral: twinsen^wee ujjai hazrpg
<warni521> âââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEplktgeae: hazrpg ujjai twinsen^wee âââ
<warni521> ââââââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODErhzop: hazrpg twi
<warni521> âââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEkgwxjkt: twinsen^wee ujjai hazrpg â
<warni521> âââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEbnnbkidkv: twinsen^wee hazrpg ujjai âââââââ
<warni521> ââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEkcduou: ujjai hazrpg twinsen^wee ââââââ
<warni521> ââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEygpohz: twinsen^wee ujjai hazrpg ââââââ
<warni521> ââââââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEmtmswjck: twinsen
<warni521> ââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEpqzrc: ujjai twinsen^wee hazrpg ââââââ,
<warni521> ââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEdrintgcl: ujjai twinsen^wee hazrpg ââââ
<warni521> âââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEgneaes: twinsen^wee ujjai hazrpg âââ
<warni521> âââââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEqphmh: ujjai hazrpg twinsen
<warni521> âââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEbcnjodd: hazrpg twinsen^wee ujjai â
<warni521> ââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEhlpwc: ujjai hazrpg twinsen^wee ââââââ,
<warni521> âââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEkgkqvqd: twinsen^wee ujjai hazrpg âââââ
<warni521> ââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEpbmki: hazrpg ujjai twinsen^wee ââââââ,
<warni521> âââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEqfpbrldi: twinsen^wee hazrpg ujjai âââ
<warni521> ââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEyffzfcvec: ujjai twinsen^wee hazrpg ââââ
<warni521> ââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEebowcqb: ujjai twinsen^wee hazrpg ââ
<warni521> âââââââââââââââââ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEhaghmpty: ujjai twinsen^wee hazrpg â
<foobarry> sigh
<zmoylan-pi> don't worry christmas is nearly over...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> happy solstice
<foobarry> who decided a major IT operation on 2nd jan was good idea :(
<foobarry> our last day today until 2nd jan
<zmoylan-pi> bean counters
<foobarry> actually it was us because we didn't want to do it before xmas
<foobarry> and its the quitest time of the year for the supercomputer
<foobarry> whats the best phone for Â£100-150?
<brobostigon> nokia 3 ?
<foobarry> looking at: moto g5, huawei p8 lite, xiaomi redmi 5 and htc 650
<foobarry>  Redmi 4X looks good
<zmoylan-pi> tesco have some cheap but good handsets for that
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMatt> howdy ho
<brobostigon> hi
<SuperMatt> 'tis my last day yo!
<MooDoo> awesome x
<foobarry> one of my team's last day too. they worked hard till the final day
<foobarry> i find making ppl only work 6 weeks instead of 12week notice period rally helps
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> I've done 2 months
<SuperMatt> it was a little too long
<foobarry> after 6 weeks people turn into monkeys
<SuperMatt> I turned into a monkey almost immediately
<SuperMatt> but I did jump if there was something important that needed doing
<MooDoo> i would have done nothing tbh
<SuperMatt> I've done close to nothing
<SuperMatt> I've done nothing since I finished training up the new guy
<foobarry> at least you got a new guy
<foobarry> tried to hire, couldn't find anyone with a visa
<SuperMatt> Brexit's going well then
<MooDoo>  /quit
<luna__> http://ubuntupodcast.org/2017/12/21/s10e42-tangy-orange-chairs/
<ridgewang> https://status.fsf.org/conversation/234582#notice-285901  purism.
<diddledan> finished working on a thing: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qupnw3v3y7c68po/Screenshot%202017-12-21%2019.57.06.png?dl=0
<diddledan> try it at https://can-i-demo.it/primitive.html
<penguin42> diddledan: That's throwing me a file back called primitive
<penguin42> diddledan: Which said 'Get : unsupported protocol scheme ""'
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> needs the http or https
<diddledan> I can fix that
<penguin42> yeh it had the https
<penguin42> seems to do it for anything for me
<diddledan> have you got javascript turned on?
<penguin42> yeh
<diddledan> which browser?
<penguin42> ff on ubuntu
<penguin42> ff 57.0.1
<diddledan> ok, gimme a sec to test that
<diddledan> I didn't do firefox :-p
<penguin42> tsk tsk
<zmoylan-pi> more users on lynx these days... :-P
<diddledan> ok, it's building a new deployment no
<diddledan> now
<diddledan> take a few minutes
<diddledan> should be good for retrying
<diddledan> wfm
 * diddledan pokey poke penguin42 
<diddledan> tis fixed!
 * penguin42 looks
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh that works
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> yey for automated deployments
<penguin42> nice effect
<daftykins> bouncy bouncy
<zmoylan-pi> maybe they wanted a mr. bouncy for crimbo
<diddledan> watching john wick 2 - they translated "signora" from italian into english for the subtitties as "signora"
<diddledan> like why would you translate a bit but not all of it
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i never did get around to that
<daftykins> i only just finished Stranger Things season 2, which i tried out on my friends Netflix account so i could see it with the bells and whistles of Dolby Vision HDR
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> stranger things is pretty decent
<daftykins> bit jarring the whole autoplay of something unrelated at the end, mind
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-22
<MooDoo> howdy all
<diddledan> allo allo
<brobostigon> morning
<diddledan> oh gawd: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1734147
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1734147 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 17.10 corrupting BIOS - many LENOVO laptops models" [Critical,Confirmed]
<MooDoo> glad i don't have a lenovo
<diddledan> it does seem telling that Ubuntu is randomly killing Lenovos and Microsoft had to prevent the Creator's Release of Windows from going to a slew of Lenovos, too, also due to EFI shenanigans
<zmoylan-pi> and if you turn off efi and use good old bios does the problem persist?
<MooDoo> wanna play tron in ssh ? ssh sshtron.zachlatta.com
<brobostigon> wow, cool, :)
<diddledan> lol: "vim keybindings for movement"
<diddledan> so you can never get out
<zmoylan-pi> you'll stay there till you learn vim like nature intended...
<Azelphur> Does anyone know of any software I can use to stream the video/audio from aa Windows PC to a Linux one? I have tried moonlight and it'd be perfect apart from the audio sounds horrible
<daftykins> on the same network? why is file sharing or UPnP not viable?
<Azelphur> on the same network, yes, because there is no file, I want to stream the display output.
<daftykins> can you backup with the actual task instead of that, sounds a bit x-y problem right now :>
<zmoylan-pi> aren't there entire protocols to do streaming from one device to another... i seem to remember a bunch of letter soups for sharing video audio last time i used windows
<Azelphur> daftykins: VR PC is in my office, and has a Vive connected to it via a long HDMI cable that runs into my lounge, HTPC is in my lounge. I want to be able to view the monitor of VR PC on my HTPC in the lounge, so that people can see what's going on in VR.
<daftykins> ugh.
<ali1234> so you want a steam link?
<daftykins> don't think that's the same thing
<Azelphur> ali1234: yes, except that doesn't work ( see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZPocek885M )
<ali1234> put in a second HDMI cable
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's an issue too, I would want to do display mirroring, but the TV only has one 4k HDMI input.
<daftykins> time to get a receiver
<daftykins> or a better TV :D
<ali1234> or a bad ass HTPC that can do VR
<Azelphur> I'm just wondering if I can achieve this with OBS, actually :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha, because I totally need a third top end machine  in my home where only I live
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> "I would want to do display mirroring, but the TV only has one 4k HDMI input." - i don't see how they are related
<daftykins> video also seems to suggest the solution is 'walk a few feet away and click a button' ;D
<daftykins> = zero sympathy
<Azelphur> ali1234: HTPC is using the 4k input, I can't now plug the VR PC into that same 4k input, as its in use
<Azelphur> daftykins: but...effort :(
<ali1234> get a switch box?
<Azelphur> ali1234: that could also work
<daftykins> hey buddy, you're the one that runs Linux :>
 * daftykins ducks
<Azelphur> daftykins: haha
<ali1234> i was just setting up OBS actually
<Azelphur> yea, apparently if I compile nginx with the RTSP module and set up OBS, it's possible
<Azelphur> which sounds like a PITA, but at least it's a possibility
<daftykins> my first dabble with it had me appreciating twitch streamers for editing layouts live, a whole lot more
<ali1234> i need a green screen
<daftykins> what would you stream? i thought you had dialup level upload :>
<ali1234> i got better internet
<daftykins> oh nice, what changed?
<ali1234> switched to zen
<daftykins> i thought your phone line was the problem?
<ali1234> it still is, but VDSL is way faster to start with
<daftykins> yeah i'm on VDSL2, but it's only faster depending on line length :>
<ali1234> i had about 500kbit upload before, now its 20mbit
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-23
<ali1234> apparently i am live https://www.twitch.tv/ali123492
<daftykins> i hear some scratching!
<daftykins> and typing!
<daftykins> yep super quiet on the game audio versus microphone though
<daftykins> a lot of streamers seem to end up with super complex mixer setups to tolerate everything :>
<daftykins> ooh yes much louder
<daftykins> haha buggy games ftw
<daftykins> i think i'll pick Zen for my clients London pad, they seem pretty well regarded
<ali1234> i dont think they could make the twitch UI any more complicated if they tried
<daftykins> :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> christmas eve eve... be careful out there...
<brobostigon> and heres me making a copy of my charecter sheet to level up my human wizard rather thn thinking about christmas, :). lol.
<zmoylan-pi> the next wand you find will have bells on... -2 stealth casting
<brobostigon> woops. :)
<zmoylan-pi> could be worse, your wizzzard hat could be replaced with a santa hat... :-)
<brobostigon> lolz, :)
<Seeker`> https://youtu.be/iyKAJsQngIc A different view of a spacex launch
<penguin42> pretty, I was watching the live last night, but it didn't have the ground view after the first few seconds
<penguin42> Manchester centre was quiter than a normal Saturday
<zmoylan-pi> local shopping areas were jammers today...
<zmoylan-pi> christmas carols in the background so it was shopping and not looting...
<penguin42> yeh those will stop on boxing day sales
<zmoylan-pi> then we can play rollerball for the new year sales...
<penguin42> I noticed quite a few shops saying they were closed for new years day that was odd
<zmoylan-pi> i saw a toy store chain in the uk that's closed crimbo eve...
<penguin42> oh that's just because it's run by a Christian who closes the stores every Sunday
<zmoylan-pi> still shutting on what will be the busiest day for toy shops this year
<penguin42> based on Manchester today I think everyone around here has done everything except food presents
<zleap> i just have one or two bits to get,  other than that i am done
<zmoylan-pi> trust me, there are people who will wake up tomorrow and go. oh is today christmas eve, i have done no shopping at all this year for that and go into full panic mode
<zleap> town wasn't too busy today,   compared to a few years ago
<zleap> yeah we get people in panic mode on xmas eve,
 * penguin42 mostly ignores xmas
<zleap> just go out early,  before everyone else
<zmoylan-pi> if they haven't planned ahead to avoid the rush tomorrow i think we can safely rule out plan ahead to start early tomorrow. :-)
<penguin42> I did wonder about going out late tomorrow and looking for bargains
<zmoylan-pi> i already got my discount tin of chocolate mikado biccies...
<penguin42> ooh?
<zmoylan-pi> â¬10 in tescos down from normal price of â¬15 http://store.ukgourmet.us/chmitin.html
<penguin42> oh, I've never seen those
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I thought you meant https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Mikado-Milk-Chocolate-Biscuit/112794011
<zmoylan-pi> they don't last long but they are pricey... but oh so chocolatey... the chocolate is so thick it cracks when you bite in...
<penguin42> ok, got to look out for those
<zmoylan-pi> there are small packs available. about â¬2 for 10 i think... might see them more often than the tins which i only see around crimbo
<zmoylan-pi> there are also chocolte kimberly biccies too... when they first came out in ireland they had to ration them as they couldn't keep them on the shelves... https://www.amazon.com/Jacobs-Elite-Chocolate-Kimberley-Tin/dp/B00076KHBY?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00076KHBY
<penguin42> yeh I've seen those in tesco here but not had any
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-24
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<thelinuxbox> Good morning
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> switched to tmux, and now arrow keys don't work in irssi
<Laney> what's up with that
<Laney> lemme see...
<Laney> nope :(
<thelinuxbox> recently i had the need to create a minimal ubuntu iso, it turned out in my experience so far to be a lot harder than expected, i've filed what i think is a bug, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/live-build/+bug/1739790 because my post on the forums went unanswered, https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2379618, perhaps i've made a mistake in my shell script (it's posted on both the forum and bug
<thelinuxbox> report)?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1739790 in live-build (Ubuntu) "live-build fails to build" [Undecided,New]
<thelinuxbox> any feedback would be much appreciated, thank you very much :)
<thelinuxbox> it's my understanding live-build ia the best tool to use to build a minimal iso of ubuntu
<thelinuxbox> i'm not sure if ubuntu-defaults-template might be an alternative solution, i've tried it and looked online for documentation to make a minimal build template but couldn't locate a proper solution
<zmoylan-pi> arrow keys seem to work in irssi and tmux for me. maybe your terminal emulator is acting the goat?
<zmoylan-pi> up n down scroll through previous comments, left n right through current text on comment line
<ChunkzZ> sup, merry christmas all. :)
<thelinuxbox> Hi ChunkzZ :)
<thelinuxbox> merry christmas, for tomorrow :P
<thelinuxbox> if their are any other alternatives to building an iso from scratch that anyone could share it would be much appreciated, thanks :)
<thelinuxbox> i installed live-build on my debian machine, it worked without any issue's, so it seems like the ubuntu build is broken :(
<daftykins> hrmm why do people always want to reinvent the wheel?
<penguin42> too round
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> how are things up north, penguin42?
<penguin42> daftykins: OK, getting very little done
<daftykins> hehe 'tis the season
<daftykins> i've definitely turned into a full-blown home owner, i want to go upstairs and put another coat of paint on a window instead of enjoy entertainment
<penguin42> haha
<daftykins> wow at Mozilla reviving Thunderbird, that's novel news
<zmoylan-pi> and they're going to keep adding feature to it till they finally add email? :-P
<daftykins> maybe one day :D
<daftykins> first up is breaking all old legacy addon support, apparently
<zmoylan-pi> a mozilla speciality...
<daftykins> it's funny because i just got through heavily advising against going anywhere near Thunderbird to a mate in the US who for some reason is encountering a tonne of quirks in MS Outlook land :)
<zmoylan-pi> not chuck out the baby apple level but still
<zmoylan-pi> thunderbird v outlook... stuck between rock and an awful place...
<daftykins> well i quickly learnt the problem sounded more like his workplaces' setup of hosted IMAP mailboxes rather than doing it right, but i've certainly never had Outlook crash for clients so i figured the laptops he has dished out must be quirky all of their own
<zmoylan-pi> last time i installed outlook it was yonks ago. it was fairly crashy then...
<zmoylan-pi> my main reason for hating it (beyond it been ms ::spit:: ) was the search was just so awful
 * penguin42 is curious what's wrong with Thunderbird (although I'm a mutt user so hey)
<zmoylan-pi> i used to use thunderbird ages back but it got slower and slower as they stuffed more things into it
<daftykins> penguin42: well it got dumped until now, for one - so it's been in ESR status for yonks - but when i put it in for a couple of clients it's just horrid to extract data from afterward
<daftykins> plus using a client in the first place is particularly outmoded now
<zmoylan-pi> i use claws email client atm.  but use evolution for archiving all my email to local store
<zmoylan-pi> claws is tiny lite email client. fire up evolutuion once a week to pull stuff down
<thelinuxbox> Hi :)
<daftykins> ah you're back
<daftykins> yeah don't waste your time reinventing the wheel, just get a server ISO and select nothing when tasksel runs
<thelinuxbox> I sure am, ah that's a great idea, thanks very much! :D
<daftykins> np
<thelinuxbox> by selecting noting when tasksel runs, the server iso basically becomes what the alternative iso use to be before it got discontinued?
<thelinuxbox> alternate*
<daftykins> it's been so long i forget what that even used to do
<daftykins> !alternate
<lubotu3> The alternate CD has been discontinued for the main Ubuntu distro, please use and report any bugs in the !LiveCD
<daftykins> wow they updated something
<thelinuxbox> :)
<daftykins> seems they do pack a bit of cruft into server these days versus say, debian net installs, but it's small enough still that it's pretty moot to be concerned
<daftykins> if you don't have 2GB spare, it's time to phone the museum
<zmoylan-pi> 2gb? luxury... in my day we had to compile uphill in the dark and rain there and back again...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: :)
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: have you caught the update? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/12/22/gemini_special/
<penguin42> daftykins: I hope they leave the keytops blank
<daftykins> ;D
