#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-05
<lapo> hi
<Madpilot> The DocTeam has started getting 6.06's docs up on Lulu, so people can get paper copies inexpensively. http://www.lulu.com/ubuntu-doc
<jak08> kool
<jak08> and then what do I do with them?
<Madpilot> um, read them? ;)
<jak08> oh, is that anything like eating?
<Madpilot> ...
<jak08> well?
<jak08> ahh, here I imagened it being free, but you trickedme you sly dog
<jak08> but it is coo
<SS2> Madpilot: they cost nothing?
<SS2> $0.00 <--- looks cheep
<jak08> click on them and find out
<jak08> thats to download
<Madpilot> you can download the PDFs free; I think the actual paper copies are about $7 USD
<jak08> yes I want the chinnese one
<SS2> Madpilot: ok, but that price ist also good ;)
<Madpilot> yeah. they're not huge books, only about 80pgs for the Ubuntu Desktop Guide, and at least 10 or 15 pages is the licenses at the back...
<jak08> still it's kinda cool
<Madpilot> as more translations get done, we'll add them, too
<jak08> yep
<jak08> you will
<jak08> I'm pycik thats how I know
<Madpilot> psychic?
<jak08> yep thats the work
<jak08> word*
<klepas> moin
<AndyFitz> new slashdot theme is nice
<lapo> hi
<AndyFitz> hi lapo
<lapo> yo andy
<AndyFitz> how goes it mate.  tried the inksccape pre releases ?
<lapo> yep, using it
<lapo> well, a 3weeks old build I believe
<AndyFitz> give it another whirl ;-)
<AndyFitz> some more polish is on   we're looking to release before friday ( may / may not happen )
<lapo> cool, downloading it
<lapo> no support yet for effects, right?
<AndyFitz> not yet
<AndyFitz> blending modes and filters some day tho ;-)
<AndyFitz> two SoC projects for filters
<AndyFitz> scribus has blending modes now .. ( experimental )
<msikma> Hey everyone
<nettogrof> hi:)
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<lapo> any thunderbird/firefox skinner around?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-06
<orro> hello?
<troy_s> hello
<orro> hi
<msikma> Hi everybody
<Madpilot> hi
<msikma> Everybody doing okay?
<Madpilot> just fine here
<bersace> msikma: you should not add link already in the Wiki ;)
<msikma> I was planning on making that top section a little repository for useful links. I think it's useful to have them at the top rather than somewhere midway. But you're right, they're a little redundant.
<bersace> msikma: then move contacts link to top and drop "Contact" title
<msikma> So, what's everybody doing? I'm at work, working on a Flash game. Gotta link it to an online scoreboard... boring work.
<nettogrof> hi mgalvin
<mgalvin> hi nettogrof
<troy_s> paris countdown on
<lapo> hi
<bersace> lapo: hi
<lapo> ciao bersace how is going with the sane sane gui? :-)
<bersace> sane is so insane :(
<bersace> especially option handling
<bersace> sane handle option, option group and scanner button the same way (same struct)
<msikma> Sane? You mean scanner software?
<msikma> Oh, right
<bersace> so i have to do a lot of trick to get a sane option handling
<bersace> yep
<msikma> Bye
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-07
<troy_s> new code updates at launchpad.
<Madpilot> for which features?
<troy_s> hey mad
<Madpilot> hi
<troy_s> you interested in helping the administration end?
<troy_s> you seem to be very accessible
<Madpilot> LP admin?
<troy_s> yes
<troy_s> you familiar with it?
<troy_s> i just noticed that you spoke up regarding the calendar and such, and our team needs good folks with good technical knowledge as well as art smarts.
<Madpilot> I've fiddled with LP, never really had any reason to get into it
<msikma> Yeah, someone will need to keep the calendar updated a little bit.
<msikma> I think that a caldendar will prove very useful
<troy_s> well more than useful
<troy_s> it is tied into the overarching ubuntu design system
<troy_s> which is more important
<troy_s> the specs and such
<msikma> Too bad it can't be a Google one, though, since I check that constantly because I keep track of my working hours with it
<troy_s> it is a very useful method to keep tabs on several things.
<troy_s> the lp calendar binds into the rest of the system which is nice.
<msikma> Yeah, just gotta bookmark the page it uses
<msikma> Can you syndicate the LP calendar via XML or Ical format?
<msikma> Because then I could import it into Google Calendar, like I did with the Fridge calendar.
<troy_s> uh... i suspect that RSS and such is in the works.
<troy_s> Launchpad is quite new.
<troy_s> Greetings kyle.
<troy_s> where the heck has bersace been...
<Kylekf> hi :)
<Kylekf> sorry for late reply was away just now
<msikma> Hello
<Kylekf> hi
<msikma> Hey guys, how would you like ubuntu-art.org?
<msikma> I think a separate domain for the Ubuntu artwork team would be neat.
<msikma> Then we could also have mail redirects.
<Madpilot> you could probably get artteam.ubuntu.com - the DocTeam has doc.ubuntu.com for internal/testing stuff, and help.u.c for the actual released docs
<msikma> artteam.ubuntu.com would also be nice, but I think it would be even better to have ubuntu-art.org. Mainly for the ease of remembering and access, and the e-mail addresses.
<lapo> hi
<bersace> lapo: hi :)
<msikma_> Time to go away again.
<msikma_> Bye
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-08
<msikma> Hi
<klepas> moin
<troy_s> moin
<klepas> hey troy_s
<troy_s> how goes it klepas?
<klepas> not too well
<klepas> quite disgruntled atm
<troy_s> how come?
<klepas> our state government here in the capital of 300,000 has released this year's fiscal policy
<troy_s> uh oh
<klepas> they want to shut down a quarter of the of the Capital's schools, including 22 preschools, 15 primary schools, an established highschool my sister has just begun to attend with over 850 students and one of Canberra's most reputable colleges, Dickson College
<klepas> and i am off
<klepas> going a rally at the college
<klepas> bye
<msikma> Hey Troy_s
<msikma> How's things?
<klepas> troy_s: back
<offs> hello...
<troy_s> hey bersace, can you put a link to the blasted ubuntu font from the documents page?  i can't find it.
<troy_s> and i can't remember where it is on the wiki.
<troy_s> thanks brother.
<bersace> troy_s: apt-get install ttf-ubuntu-title
<bersace> troy_s: i don't understand what you want
<bersace> a link where to what ?
<bersace> troy_s: i receive the mail
<bersace> i'll do something
<bersace> The problem is : We have two namespace : Artwork and ArtworkTeam
<bersace> What do we need really ?
<bersace> i guess that Artwork is less confusing than ArtworkTeam
<bersace> and that ArtworkTeam should be renamed to Artwork/Team
<bersace> I would like to gather Edgy proposals, but Artwork/Evaluation/EdgyPropositions is a mess
<bersace> msikma: ping
<bersace> We have two namespace : Artwork and ArtworkTeam What do we need really ? i guess that Artwork is less confusing than ArtworkTeam and that ArtworkTeam should be renamed to Artwork/Team
<bersace> in the wiki
<bersace> should we seperate Drafts and Evalutions ?
<bersace> i gather
<bersace> ok
<bersace> si i rename a lot of pages
<bersace> added redirection
<bersace> and create some pages
<bersace> don't want to do more alone
<bersace> bye
<msikma> Hello :)
<nickm__> anyone around?
<nickm__> oh well, basically i have some images some people might like to work with to create wallpapers or whatever, i dont want to join the art team or anything, they're just here if anyone wants to play with them
<nickm__> http://boredklink.googlepages.com/home
<nickm__> maybe i can put a link on the wiki for people to get to them if someone would show me where to put it
<nickm__> hi jason, are you there?
<_jason> yeah, I was just making sure this channel existed
<nickm__> okay
<_jason> nickm__: forgot to look to see if you were already here :)
<nickm__> im looking for someone from ubuntu-artwork cos i have some artwork people might *might* want to hack on
<nickm__> its ok :)
<nickm__> make screenshots and the like
<nickm__> *wallpapers :)
<_jason> nickm__: ah, probably best to try later or just email then
<nickm__> alrighty, thanks :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-09
<msikma> Our programmer just emptied the database of the wrong site.
<msikma> Looks like we'll be working late tonight!
<bersace> say what ?
<msikma> He had to empty a database. Happily dropped all tables. Unfortunately, he used the wrong database which apparently, as he says, authorized his request with a cached password.
<msikma> Ohh, he found a recent XML version of the database.
<msikma> Great. So now all he has to do is write a script that converts that XML into MySQL tables.
<bersace> but, which database ?
<bersace> at your work ?
<bersace> or about ubuntu-artwork ?
<bersace> msikma: ping
<msikma> Nah, it has nothing to do with Ubuntu.
<msikma> Just work-related stuff.
<bersace> i posted a big e-mail about our wiki organisation
<bersace> please check it and comment it
<bersace> by mail if possible
<msikma> Yeah, I've seen it. I agree with pretty much all you've said. Great thinking! I'm pretty busy right now, so I'll respond to it later.
<msikma> Hmm... I wonder if Math.round() or >> 0 is faster for rounding numbers...
<bersace> hello
<bersace> i was cleaning my room with my mother, so i was absent quit some hours ^^
<bersace> Have anybody a reaction considering Wiki reorganisation
<bersace> ??
<kyledye> bersace, i like it
<kyledye> kind of cleans it up a bit
<bersace> so msikma and kyledye are ok
<bersace> what about troy_s
<msikma> !@#$!@#$ bugs in ActionScript
<msikma> It's such a beautiful day
<msikma> And the working day is almost done
<msikma> But I really should fix this
<msikma> Works absolutely fine the first time, no matter which settings you use, but the second time the script is used, it messes up... I need to make it go not only from state A to B or A to C, but also from B to C.
<msikma> Oh well, I'll fix it at some point.
<bersace> msikma: please talk about ubuntu-artwork, not you *@! proprietary software mess
<bersace> s/you/your/
<msikma> I don't care about any of that.
<troy_s> greetz bersace et al
<troy_s> i love the idea of wiki structuring.  my only thoughts are to keep it streamlined.  not too many sub pages, only as many as needed.
<troy_s> and bersace, before you start -- think in advance about all the cross links.
<troy_s> the links will be a nightmare
<bersace> yep
<bersace> i know how to redirect :)
<troy_s> glad you posted it... it has already started to evolve anyways.
<troy_s> i think if you keep it as streamlined as the artwork team is now, we win.
<troy_s> only thoughts are that we keep perhaps all NEW content in something like Drafts or Unsorted or whtaever...
<troy_s> a singular dir for all of it.
<troy_s> and with the sub pages thing that henrik has setup, it is easy to see material as soon as it is added.
<bersace> For the page template
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> less is more.
<bersace> i would like to drop the title Sub Page and just put the a bold "subpages" with the list of subpages
<troy_s> i think we need to keep our thoughts towards how a first time user would look at the pages.
<bersace> that won't pollute the ToC
<bersace> ok ?
<troy_s> it might be nice to have a link to subpages from teh contents no?
<troy_s> give it a bit of time on the mailing list too... just get your planning in place first.
<troy_s> give the mailing list a day or two.
<troy_s> ok workie time.
* troy_s is out.
<bersace> so you want to wait one day or two before applying changes ?
<troy_s> bersace yes i think that is prudent.  give it two days for responses.
<troy_s> in teh meantime, why don't you copy and adjust a mirror below your home page on the wiki?
<troy_s> so that the existing stays, but the fresh can begin to be worked out without damaging the structure?
* troy_s is really out this time.  I mean it.  ;)
<bersace> troy_s: what is my "home page on the wiki"
<troy_s> bersace:  when you sign up for launchpad, you get a home page dir dedicated to you.
<bersace> ok
<troy_s> it is a good 'work' area
<bersace> ok
<bersace> that will lead to mass renaming :(
<troy_s> well you can plop an outline in there
<troy_s> without too much nightmare
<bersace> ok
<bersace> i really hate the one-cell-table in PageTemple
<bersace> for ToC
<troy_s> ???
<troy_s> oh.. i just copied henriks.  it is clean and simple.
<kyledye> wish they'd let me do a layout for ubuntu.com :(
<bersace> troy_s: hey ! you are owner of ubuntu-art at launchpad !
<bersace> greeeeaaaaaat !!!!!
<bersace> I propose Incoming to replace Drafts and Propositions
<kyledye> ?
<bersace> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/%c3%89tienneBersac/ArtworkReOrganisation
<kyledye> what can i do to help
<bersace> review this page
<bersace> add you propositions
<bersace> complete it
<bersace> and wait for troy_s to trigger the migration
<bersace> in fact, that page should be ArtworkTeam/ReOrganisation :(
<kyledye> ok
<kyledye> bersace: do you think i could be involed with the template creations?
<kyledye> involved*
<bersace> yep
<bersace> of course
<bersace> i wish not only !
<kyledye> awesome
<kyledye> <-- web designer by trade :)
<kyledye> it's my passion
<kyledye> wtf is this launchpad thing
<Snake> Can someone tell me what font the Ubuntu logo is in?
<neodreams> ttf-ubuntu-title
<neodreams> ;)
<neodreams> package
<Snake> Is there anyway I can get it not in package form? I need it for use one a..
* Snake whispers windows machine
<neodreams> I can
<neodreams> wait sec
<Snake> Okay thanks man
<neodreams> http://neodreams.ctech.ca/ubuntu.ttf
<Snake> yay
<neodreams> :)
<Snake> Wow awesome set
<neodreams> yep !
<Snake> thanks again
* Snake idles here for a bit in support :D
<neodreams> lol
<kyledye> :)
<kyledye> howdy nettogrof
<nettogrof> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-10
<jak08> why is it that this room is always silent?
<poningru> :)
<klepas> moin
<klepas> troy_s: ping
<Burgundavia> anybody here with a wacom tablet?
<klepas> oh i wish :)
<Burgundavia> the basics are only about $100
<klepas> i've been thinking about getting one now that i've got my laptop
<dum8d0g> hi people
<dum8d0g> (sorry for my english, I'm from czech)
<dum8d0g> I'm searching for ubuntu fonts (truetype) and some materials
<dum8d0g> colors, vectors, photos and more..
<dum8d0g> I just want make better our page ubuntu.cz to be less different with ubuntu.com
<dum8d0g> (yes I know, my english is really bad ;))
<dum8d0g> ok, i have..
<dum8d0g> :)
<dum8d0g> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
<troy_s> greetz boyz and grrls.
<troy_s> klepas you in?
<klepas> troy_s: in now
<troy_s> hey bersace...
<troy_s> added some comments to your wiki structure at your personal page there...
<bersace> troy_s: thanks
<bersace> We need to create a CategoryArtwork too.
<troy_s> ???
<troy_s> i think you need to start a bulleted listing so we can 'see' how it will look when finished
<troy_s> great work though bersace... the simplicity is going to help completely.
<bersace> ok
<bersace> done
<troy_s> weekend meeting suggestion is great too... but the problem is that
<troy_s> i am off to paris.
<troy_s> hope to see you there :)
<bersace> hh !
<troy_s> irc is a very bunk meeting technique in my opinion
<bersace> i'm thinking about reusing ArtworkTeam logo in our PageTemplate
<bersace> troy_s: meetings must be short
<bersace> one hour, no more
<troy_s> ber:  yes and targetted.  but i still have yet to see what folks are going to arrive at that we _cant_ in the mailing list
<bersace> so IRC is a good way to dump a bunch of ideas and triage that later
<troy_s> which is why i am sort of non-commital on the wiki organization for meetings and such.
<troy_s> absolutely!
<troy_s> braindump for certain
<troy_s> i would say irc is wonderful
<bersace> yep
<troy_s> but we aren't at that stage yet
<troy_s> when we get down to deciding motifs and such
<troy_s> irc will be very important
<troy_s> but really, we can poll and keep a flowing discourse on the mailing list
* troy_s is out for family time.
<bersace> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/%c3%89tienneBersac/ArtworkReOrganisation
<bersace> Created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryArtwork
<bersace> Added a nice icon in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/PageTemplate
<bersace> Updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/%c3%89tienneBersac/ArtworkReOrganisation#head-73e7195ec66fefd074881d59f190f1971118c27c
<troy_s> uncomfortable with being labeled as leader there bersace :)
<troy_s> so pull me out of that until we have official proceedings and such.
<troy_s> bersace:  new adjustments.
* bersace is back
<bersace> troy_s: As you edit the Tree, it feels like you want to create Incoming sub pages
<bersace> i mean subnamespace
<bersace> such as Incoming/Documentation and Incoming/LooseIdeas
<bersace> isn't it ?
<bersace> Are Structure Documents Team Guidelines ?
<bersace> How could we handle current developpement
<bersace> ?
<bersace> not in the wiki ?
<bersace> we need wiki for polls, launchpad only allow to vote, not to show each choices in details as we need .
<bersace> maybe should we just put poll's item's page in Incoming ....
<troy_s> polls seem like we should stick with launchpad for
<troy_s> wiki is really an evolutionary process
<troy_s> it is a great starting point (instead of telling people go xxx or yyy, just point them to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork or wherever)
<bersace> hmmm
<bersace> i don't suggest to use wiki to vote, just to have page that explains in details item. On page per item.
<troy_s> yep
<bersace> of course, wallpaper vote just use link to art.ubuntu.com as we did earlier
<troy_s> well launchpad requires that you provide a wiki page for further details.
<bersace> so we have to put some pages for e.g. Frozen etc.
<bersace> ok
<bersace> so where should we put those pages ?
<bersace> Incoming ?
<bersace> Evaluations ?
<troy_s> art.ubuntu.com... thanks for reminding me... i'll email henrik now to see if we can factor in some sort of cvs use.
<bersace> AnyThingElse ?
<troy_s> well...
<troy_s> let's for now leave the basic structure plus a little more refinement
<troy_s> i think you have given it a good simple starting point
<bersace> ok
<troy_s> and hopefully things can 'fit in' below it as we need them.
<bersace> so we can start applying changes ?
<troy_s> right now, i think we need to resolve the whole team section.
<bersace> ok
<troy_s> i would still give it a little more time
* bersace go to dinner
<troy_s> for the folks who are going to contribute to contribute.
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> we need to be as transparent and democratic as possible within the team
<troy_s> or else people will get disillusioned.
<troy_s> we also need to WORK, so it is a delicate balance between the two :)
<troy_s> if we all keep doing what we have been doing, we can expect the same results.
<troy_s> so that obviously doesn't work.  that said, i think we are making good process.
<troy_s> frank's document needs to be wikiized
<troy_s> i wonder if there is an easy way to cut and paste... i guess a little wiki formatting would be easy enough.
* bersace is back
<bersace> troy_s: which document from Frank ?
<troy_s> check the mailing list
<troy_s> he has a link to a pdf.
<bersace> grabed
<bersace> Frank is so a rocking guys !!!
<bersace> :)
<troy_s> clever guy
<troy_s> and he believes in working on leaving paper trails
<troy_s> which is important in community efforts
<troy_s> otherwise they just dissappear into the vapor of mailing lists and such
<troy_s> even compiling wiki pages and gathering data is critical work.
<bersace> agree
<bersace> May should we have a Documents namespace rather than a Documentation, that include such highly important documents
<bersace> ?
<bersace> and including documentations ?
<troy_s> documentation is broad enough i think.
<troy_s> remember, we really need to let the complexity flow from the simplicity at the top.
<troy_s> otherwise we end up square one again... scattered stuffs everywhere.
<bersace> ok
<bersace> That was just a naming question
<bersace> i wonder if Documentation is only for Technical documentation or also for such documents
<troy_s> Seems to suggest everything in document compiled form?
<troy_s> That is a good thing I think.  Pretty broad, and you can clarify with subdirs.
<bersace> ok
<bersace> read
<bersace> That document is so good
<bersace> i completely agree
<bersace> troy_s: do you want do wikize it or at least the little itemized summaries ?
<bersace> I think that Frank should do it in its wiki home page
<troy_s> yep.
<troy_s> agree.
<troy_s> if you mail frank, i am sure he will give you the doc or wahtever he generated it from.
<bersace> sorry
<bersace> i restarted my session to test tapioca
<troy_s> wtf is tapioca?  a pudding?
<bersace> lol
<bersace> http://tapioca-voip.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/ScreenShots
<troy_s> ahh
<bersace> didn't work :(
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-11
<klepas> moin
<klepas> hey Madpilot
<Madpilot> hi
<klepas> when you join a new channel, using
<klepas> ack.. wrong window :)
<msikma> Hey guys
<msikma> Wow, just 5 people in here
<troy_s> netsplit city
<klepas> moinmoin
<msikma> Hi klepas
<msikma> Can't wait till I get my new PC. I simply can't edit print sized visuals with 512 MB of RAM.
<troy_s> msikma
<troy_s> gig of ram is 75 bucks cdn
* troy_s has a dual core x2 amd with 4 gigs.
<msikma> I need a new PC anyway.
<troy_s> get a dual core 64bit amd brother
<troy_s> they rock
<msikma> #!@$!#@$ smudge tools
<troy_s> what are you using?
<troy_s> please tell me you are using gimp
<msikma> Why would I use GIMP?
<msikma> I don't know my way around it.
<troy_s> it is almost identical to photoshop
<troy_s> only diff is hotkeys
<msikma> Nonsense.
<troy_s> more or less identical
<troy_s> it is NOT nonsense
<msikma> It would be kind of cool to have knowledge of how GIMP works.
<troy_s> you need to try it to see for yourself.
<msikma> Do you know a lot about it? For example, how would I cut a selection to a new layer in GIMP?
<troy_s> egads
<troy_s> that is like basic basic
<troy_s> marquee tool
<troy_s> cut
<troy_s> then if you want, paste new layer
<troy_s> or anchor it to the layer below
<msikma> Yeah, I tried it a few times, but it's simply too confusing for me. Photoshop works for me, I have no desire to spend even more of scarse free time learning another program for something which I can already adequately do with other software.
<troy_s> that woudl have taken you less that six seconds to figure out.
<msikma> troy_s: is there a shortcut that cuts a selection into a new layer?
<msikma> I mean, I get the cut and paste.
<troy_s> of course there is.
<msikma> But Photoshop has CTRL+SHIFT+J, for example.
<troy_s> if you simply use the menu you can see the hotkeys... or you can remap them, or if you are REALLY silly, you can use gimpshop
<troy_s> that is called a HOTKEY
<troy_s> keybinding
<troy_s> every program has had them since about 1969
<msikma> Well, whatever.
<msikma> Is there one like that in GIMP?
<troy_s> do you even use a nix box?
<troy_s> you can use gimps
<troy_s> you can remap your own in gnome
<troy_s> you can do whatever you want
<troy_s> bro
<troy_s> that which doesn't meet you needs can usually be customized in open source land in under a minute.
<troy_s> its very flexible.
<msikma> Well, bro, I'm a designer. I'm sorry for using proprietary deathware. But this is what it's gonna be. I still don't see any reason whatsoever to use a program which I don't know my way around when there's another program which I know can do the trick and DOES work for me.
<troy_s> one step forwards, two steps back.
<msikma> Maybe if so many people weren't so dead set on convincing others that GIMP is better than Photoshop, there would be more designers in open source land
<msikma> So yeah. Sorry for this explosive argument from my side.
<msikma> But that's really how I feel.
<troy_s> feel free.
<troy_s> i am not saying gimp is the best thing ever... i am saying that it IS open source and if you tracked how proprietary software trends work, you would see why you should try and support SOMETHING open source.
<troy_s> period.
<troy_s> that WILL take some effort, but the rewards to the rest of the world are very large.
<msikma> I do plan on trying to tame the beast at some point.
<msikma> It can't be all that hard once I get past the initial frustrations.
<troy_s> yah you really can't get frustrated... that will kill you.  i will say
<troy_s> that there have been a few folks who have tried to make
<troy_s> an interface adaption for people who are very fearful  -- it is called gimpshop
<troy_s> i believe all the key bindings and layout try to be identical.
<msikma> Yeah, but I don't see why I would use that.
<msikma> I'm interested in seeing if GIMP's layout is actually beneficial to workflow.
<troy_s> what's up kelpas?
<troy_s> layout is just frontend.
<msikma> "Just the frontend"? It's the layout I'm interested in for GIMP. If that "confusing" layout actually makes me work faster once I get accustomed to it, then that would be one reason for a possible switch.
<troy_s> that is waht gimpshop is
<msikma> I know that it can do pretty much everything Photoshop can. But if it can do that while at the same time being easy and quick to use, then things get interesting (to me).
<troy_s> gimpshop controls the frontend.. it is gimp
<troy_s> but it organizes it to what you would be used to.
<msikma> Yes, but I'm not interested in GIMPshop.
<troy_s> with me?
<troy_s> yes... but the migration MIGHT be easier for you...
<msikma> I just want to see whether the layout of GIMP (not GIMPshop) works better than Photoshop's.
<msikma> Placement of tools. Shortcut keys. Et cetera.
<msikma> That's one reason why I could switch.
<troy_s> ultimately it is just 'different' really.
<troy_s> the upside is that you can run a native 64 bit version
<troy_s> which is a power factor
<troy_s> great for scripts and such.
<msikma> There's one thing I don't really like about GIMP, though.
<troy_s> ?
<msikma> A while ago, there was this splash screen contest for GIMP. It was on Slashdot. I'm not sure if you know which one I'm talking about, since they hold those competitions pretty often, right?
<troy_s> msikma:  its open source :)
<msikma> And I remember checking it, totally not liking the winning entry, and going through all other submissions and not finding a single entry that I liked.
<msikma> And that made me think that GIMP has a poor userbase. That might be (very) unfair of me, but that's how it appeared to me when I read that news post.
<troy_s> uh have you ever needed to create art as part of an artistic team... that's what it is about.
<msikma> I don't see what you mean.
<troy_s> try working on an animation friend.
<troy_s> ;)
<msikma> I still don't see what you mean.
<troy_s> if you are a lead, you make decisions... if you are a grunt, you need to learn how to contribute to make the direction better.  not sit and whine and try to change things...
<troy_s> it is how styles develop
<msikma> But surely, you can't rebut that it's very discouraging if a designer can't see any good entries in a competition like that.
<msikma> I don't see how this is relevant to what I've just said.
<troy_s> msikma:  you need to educate... i am quite sure that there are historic artistic genres you wouldn't like either.
<troy_s> what i am trying to say, is as shakespeare would say, one man's meat is another mans poison
<msikma> Oh.
<msikma> So you're saying that even though all entries were bad, that's just my opinion and everybody else thought they rocked?
<troy_s> your idea of bad might not be the same as others...
<msikma> What.
<troy_s> there is no such thing as bad... just different.
<troy_s> i like bergman
<msikma> What a horrible argument.
<troy_s> you like spielberg.
<troy_s> oh lord.
<msikma> troy_s: are you trying to say that I don't know how to tell good designs from bad designs? There's such a thing as bad designs, you know. Not everything can be explained as "different".
<troy_s> yes
<msikma> And that contest for GIMP splash screens had awful submissions.
<msikma> That is an opinion from a designer.
<msikma> I don't see why one would have to take it easy on GIMP users simply because they use open source software.
<msikma> They were simply bad designs.
<msikma> Sure, some might like it, but I remember talking to people I work with about it. We actually didn't talk about it for very long, just quickly agreed "yeah, that's pretty bad" and then went on about our business.
<troy_s> designer... blah
<troy_s> if it were that simple, the world wouldn't have artistic genres.
<troy_s> sorry...
<troy_s> "There's such a thing as bad designs, you know."  -- that statement is fundamentally incorrect.  Einstein proved his general theory of relativity many moons ago :)
<troy_s> there certainly are designs that don't fit with motifs / contrast / etc... but again, that is all dictated by societal trends.
<troy_s> even composition is societally dictated.
<troy_s> do your homework before making such profound statements.
<msikma> What.
<msikma> Are you even a designer?
<msikma> Yes, there ARE bad designs. There ARE things that "are" ugly.
<troy_s> msikma:  careful...
<msikma> What do you mean, careful?
<troy_s> msikma: what qualifies a designer?
<msikma> You're being unreasonable.
<troy_s> well if you want to start biting off credentials... i would be careful.
<troy_s> no, i am being very logical and open to other people's work.  not all work you will agree with.
<troy_s> cubism?  dadaism?  rococo?
<msikma> I feel as though you're just protecting the GIMP users which I just explained weren't very good during that splash contest.
<msikma> Also, I'm not talking about credentials.
<troy_s> i am NOT protecting gimp... i am saying that your notion of what is good and bad is well... based on cultural / societal / and other complex notions.  good and bad are not black and white
<msikma> Okay, let me give some examples.
<troy_s> some people like it... some don't.
<troy_s> your examples won't help.  you are fundamentally incorrect in your vantage.
<msikma> Using the "difference clouds" filter in Photoshop to make a cloud sky... good or bad design?
<msikma> Using the default green gradient in Macromedia Flash... is that good or bad design?
<msikma> Or are these poor examples?
<msikma> Is stretching typefaces bad?
<troy_s> yes... there are no hard and fast rules period.
<msikma> Well then I disagree with you on a fundamental level.
<troy_s> ultimately you are asking a far more complicated question than what is good or bad.  is it composition?  is it hue?  is it contrast against the existing structure?  is this designed?
<msikma> It's much more simple than that, Troy.
<troy_s> is the artist using the 'norm' and trending against it?
<troy_s> no its not!!!!
<msikma> Yes it is.
<troy_s> if it were, you would be pasolini or vertov or michaelangelo.
<msikma> There are simply some things a designer is probably better off not doing.
<troy_s> no
<troy_s> completely incorrect... that is tradition speaking.
<msikma> So a designer isn't incorrect when he decides to make a site with a red background and orange text?
<msikma> Which hurts the eyes and hamstrings usability.
<troy_s> well depends what his goal is... is he trying to play on the lack of distinct contrast etc?
<troy_s> does it hurt eyes?  or is it a cultural 'norm' currently in advertising?
<msikma> No, let's say that it's for a client. Say... a hosting provider.
<msikma> He's making a site for a hosting provider. He uses a full red #ff0000 background with orange #ff0066 text.
<troy_s> let's say for a bloody real world application... the medium becomes part of the message.  there are NO hard and fast rules.  in 1950 it would have been absolutely RIDICULOUS to use a swoosh instead of a name.
<troy_s> its far more complicated than those hard and fast finite rules that you are cleaving to.
<troy_s> far more.
<msikma> That's nonsense.
<troy_s> notice how the logos on cars
<troy_s> are gradually getting bigger again?
<troy_s> do your homework
<msikma> Do my homework?
<msikma> Stop looking down on me.
<troy_s> yes do your homework;
<msikma> First you look down on me for using Flash (at WORK). Then you disagree with me on Photoshop. And now you're saying that I'm fundamentally flawed in basic design ideas.
<msikma> Do you even _want_ me to contribute to Ubuntu-art or are you just looking for an oppertunity to bully me out of it?
<troy_s> anyways, it was a fun discussion.  i must go spend some time with my daughter.  don't take things so personally.
<msikma> No, you should apologize to me.
<troy_s> i am not bullying... i am asking you to try and expand your views on the world just ever so slightly...
<troy_s> take care msikma.
<msikma> You definitely should apologize.
<msikma> I really would want you to. If you don't, then I don't want to work with you anymore.
<troy_s> don't be so juvenile.  creative debates are common.  i encourage you to look to art history a bit and do your homework though.  that is not an insult... just a viable option.
<msikma> That's not what I mean. But you'll read what I do mean in the next mail I'm sending to the list right now.
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> ok...
<msikma> By saying "laf", I guess you find it laughable that people have feelings. That's okay. I hope that you will at least respect my request for some basic decency.
<troy_s> listen.  if this is a critical moment, then i certainly am willing to apologize for attempting to have you think a little 'outside the box'.
<troy_s> i intend you no personal attack, etc...
<troy_s> i strictly was trying to state that are is darn complicated.
<troy_s> (as a paraphrase)
<troy_s> i never once said you were stupid or anything like that...
<troy_s> (as quoted)
<troy_s> but alas, you can read the log.
<troy_s> you also need to appreciate that people in the open source movement tend to have philosophical vantages that might seem alien to you.
<troy_s> peace.
<bersace> msikma: did i miss something about proprietary software here ?
<troy_s> how you doing bersace?
<bersace> fine
<bersace> troy_s: when do we do that wiki migration ?
<bersace> troy_s: you know i'm also working on gnome-scanning as Google SoC project
<bersace> so i have to spend more time on that than ubuntu-art
<bersace> i.e. work on gnome-scanning, free time on ubuntu-art
<troy_s> SoC summer of code?
<troy_s> bersace:  let everyone chime in on the potential via the mailing list... then do it... i would probably try to do it off your root page to make sure that all the links work before updating the main one.
<bersace> troy_s: you mean creating Artwork/* inside tienneBersac/ before renaming to Artwork/ ?
<troy_s> personally, that's what i would do.  so it can get done little bits at a time... it is quite a large effort to organize it all.
<troy_s> further, then the existing links all exist and work as well before they get forwarded... with me?
<bersace> troy_s: that will be a nightmare to migrate all pages !!!
<bersace> we might save link renaming using Self:/PageName
<bersace> but i think that might increase the work nameing and check
<bersace> see you later
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-04
<Madpilot> I just got an email from LP that my -artteam membership was about to expire - could someone please re-up me? Thanks!
<troy_s> Madpilot: I'll hit it now... hold.
<troy_s> Madpilot: Done.
<Madpilot> troy_s, thanks. Not sure why I want to get 'the icons are ugly' bug reports, but what the heck :)
<troy_s> Madpilot: No shit.
<troy_s> Madpilot: Lol... I suppose we wait until there is civil unrest regarding the art and design of Ubuntu...
<troy_s> Madpilot: On the upside, Diana puts the pressure on Ubuntu.
<Madpilot> actually, some of the icons *are* ugly. The default Nautilus icons - the little round orange things - are useless.
<troy_s> Madpilot: Well you are preaching to the choir here.
<troy_s> Madpilot: The main problem is -- what the hell is the design scope for Ubuntu?  Has anyone thought about it more than say, the amount of time they spend thinking about passing gas?
<Madpilot> design scope appears to be "Orange. Except when it's tan, or a somewhat odd salmon shade."
<troy_s> Madpilot: LOOOOL
<troy_s> Madpilot: the best comment I received was after talking about no palette...
<troy_s> "Why don't you just take all of the colours and call it the palette?"
<troy_s> lol
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<lapo> hi
<kwwii> hi lapo
<lapo> yo kwwii
<kwwii> sorry that I haven't been around much - I was given a different project to work
<kwwii> on
<lapo> np, I'm kinda busy with work stuff
<kwwii> I just updated http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomaticArtworkBuilderInstructions and uploaded a test theme for anyone interested
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-05
* #ubuntu-artwork  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-06
<Phantomgraph> 'ello all!
<Phantomgraph> I have a simple question if anyone has an ear...
<Phantomgraph> Has anyone created a model in either Wings 3D or Blender of the Ubuntu logo?
<nothlit> Phantomgraph: yeah there have definitely been, but i don't think the files themselves are available
<Phantomgraph> Thanks nothlit! Anyone know if theirs any specs for such a model? I've been working with Blender for soem time now and would like to create a mesh for the community.
<Phantomgraph> *some
<nothlit> i think its up to artistic preference really
<nothlit> everybody can grab the svg's as a baseline
<Phantomgraph> *nods* OK, I think I'll do a little modeling today. I'm not part of the 'big' picture of folks that contribute, but I have a vision of a nifty background in my head and I have to 'get it out' so to speak.
<Phantomgraph> Can I ask folks here if the model looks 'correct' to the official logo?
<Phantomgraph> (When I get something working)
<nothlit> Phantomgraph: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
<nothlit> in terms of correctness, you're not allowed to rotate or change the colours lol, so its pretty hard to get wrong :P
<Phantomgraph> *nods* been there... one of the links is busted (copyright I think) Pardon me I'm on dial up so I..
<Phantomgraph> take some time
<nothlit> if people are around, they'll be happy to offer critiques though :)
<Phantomgraph> Awsome :) As it takes forever for me to DL anything I tend to stay away from all the sign up stuff.. When I get something done I'll post it here for all to laugh at ;p
<Phantomgraph> If nothing else it'll give all a chuckle... thou the Ubunto logo shouldn't be too hard!
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-07
<neverblue> how can I change my theme to the default "human" theme, via command line?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-08
<darkmatter> andreasn: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=535808713&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o :)
<darkmatter> final direction has been chosen
<darkmatter> mornin' klepas :)
<darkmatter> the final work on glory/ozone has begun :D
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=535808713&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-09
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=536631828&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-10
<klepas> darkmatter: how is Glory going?
<darkmatter> going well
<darkmatter> klepas: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=536631828&size=o
<klepas> mmhh
<klepas> not a fan of the gradient across the menu
<klepas> what i saw last week looked awesome
<darkmatter> klepas, I still have that version too
<darkmatter> its just not the primary build
<darkmatter> klepas, I keep all versions on hand. its just theres a certain target audience I'm after.. the current work gets the highest in the polls from said audience. so its taking the lead ftm
<klepas> could i get a copy of one one of the versions of last week from you? :)
<klepas> i really like it
<darkmatter> sure.. most the widgets are unchanged.. just let me finish off the last few basics and I'll package the beasty
<klepas> thanks :)
<darkmatter> np
<darkmatter> klepas: I just wish gtk was easier to customize. the vision I actually have for the theme cant be really done AFAIK
<klepas> *nod*
<klepas> have you encountered any bugs?
<klepas> you could ask for further functionality within GTK?
<klepas> bbs; dinner
<darkmatter> it relies heavily on text effects (as in the colorurs) to accomplish a lot of the look.. and therin lies the problem... we can only exact a small amount of control over that
<darkmatter> a few bugs.. a few fixes
<darkmatter> so far breakinng even
<darkmatter> ;)
<nothlit> hmm a 3d look for the menu highlight is important for for the theme i think, just needs to be tweaked :)
* nothlit waits for the changes to the right hilights and the vertical scrollbars :D
<nothlit> darkmatter: the polls lol?
<darkmatter> lol what?
<nothlit> " the current work gets the highest in the polls from said audience"
<darkmatter> yup
<darkmatter> got a problem with that :P
<klepas> darkmatter: how'd the packaging go?
<nothlit> interesting choice of word is all :)
<darkmatter> well.. I did *poll* :P
<darkmatter> klepas.. havent done it yet
<darkmatter> just working on widgets
<klepas> no worries
<linnuxxy> where can I find a tutorial about creating a new gfxboot theme... i did googled but didn't found any!
<darkmatter> nothlit: ping
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=538501542&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=538501544&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o
<linnuxxy> where can I find a tutorial about creating a new gfxboot theme... i did googled but didn't found any!
<nothlit> linnuxxy: what do you mean gfxboot? you mean the usplash? or isolinux splash?
<nothlit> isolinux is general, usplash documentation on the wiki and theres some stuff on the forums
<linnuxxy> gfxboot is the program appears when u first boot from the CD
<nothlit> thats isolinux
<linnuxxy> showing Start or Install Ubuntu
<nothlit> darkmatter: the left inset panel and horizontal bars look pretty done :)
<linnuxxy> so... how to build isolinux theme?
<nothlit> i didn't know gtk theming had an ugly stage like everything else though lol :)
<nothlit> linnuxxy: now you have the name, google will give you lots of documentation
<nothlit> darkmatter: i'd like to see the table headers more rounded, search inset still needs boosting i think
<nothlit> text entry*
<nothlit> oh the slider bar itself could do with some depression, more defined form
<nothlit> the overall look you have is great though :)
<darkmatter> nothlit: yeah.. I'll fix those after I squish a few bugs that popped up
<darkmatter> thanks :)
<nothlit> btw do you prefer generalised critiques or is the nitpicking ok?
<darkmatter> nah... critiques are fine
<darkmatter> help me weed out nastiness
<darkmatter> :P
<darkmatter> its going to take a while to override some crap... but its getting there
<darkmatter> anyway.. bedtime
<nothlit> kk cya later
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-02
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/ubuntu_palette_0.1.gpl
<kwwii> everyone test that out
<_MMA_> The palettes dialog in GIMP really ought to have a importer.
<_MMA_> Otherwise, putting it in /.gimp-2.4/palettes works.
<theDtTvB2> _MMA_: Right click -> Import palette?
<_MMA_> I see. That's not very discoverable. A button with the others on the bottom would be best.
<theDtTvB2> It took me time to find the menu. It would be good to have some buttons.
<theDtTvB2> But I think it has a lot of buttons already.
<psyke83> hey
<darkmatter> cool... deja vu... but in a windows way
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-03
<kwwii> so between the emails, the wiki and this nonsense everyone should check out the new information
<sportman1280> hello.  i have a bug with an icon set and am trying to fix it.  The firefox 3 bookmark icon (the folder) is using the gnome default icon.  Not the icon set icon.  I dont believe it is being set right, but how do i go about setting the firefox bookmark icons?
<andreasn> sportman1280: the organize-bookmarks icon?
<andreasn> screenshot?
<sportman1280> no the actual bookmark fold icons
<sportman1280> sure one sec
<sportman1280> http://savage.lcsee.wvu.edu/~jderemer/Screenshot.png
<andreasn> did you try to restart the browser?
<sportman1280> andreasn: notice how they are grey folders?
<sportman1280> andreasn: yes.  If you notice the navigation icons are correct.
<andreasn> well, yellow-brown rather I would say, but yet :)
<andreasn> "but yes" I mean
<sportman1280> they are supposed to be a blue folder...
<sportman1280> im not sure which icon firefox 3 uses for that icon
<andreasn> it's the stock gtk icon
<sportman1280> ok. thanks
<sportman1280> there is no gtk icon for the kamel icon set
<sportman1280> so ill fix that :)
<andreasn> the name it calls is gtk-directory
<sportman1280> yep. i had found it
<sportman1280> its already fix
<sportman1280> ed
<andreasn> should work with just a symlink to folder
<sportman1280> thanks a lot :-D
<andreasn> does it work now?
<sportman1280> yes
<andreasn> sweet
<andreasn> np
<sportman1280> just created a icon called gtk-directory
<sportman1280> theres a lot of directory and folder icons, so i wasnt sure which one.... hah
<G-H-Robson> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-04
<kwwii> andreasn: ping? do you have an svg of a bug? I remember you made a nice one
<andreasn> I didn't make one, but Sebastian Kraft (I think it was him anyway) did one
<andreasn> I just did a 256x256px variant of it
<andreasn> let me see if I can find it
<andreasn> kwwii: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=82506&action=view
<andreasn> kwwii: and http://www.andreasn.se/diverse/temp/bug-buddy.svg
<kwwii> andreasn: thanks :-)
<DanaG> Seen this thing?  I like it except for the blatant branding (logo and name): http://willwill100.deviantart.com/art/Interpid-Ibex-Wallpaper-1-87094933
<andreasn> kwwii: np
<Cimi> kwwii, no new theme in intrepid, mirco is too busy with face-browser
<kwwii> Cimi: I can still put in a murrine theme
<Cimi> kwwii, I think that we could have transparency in ubuntu 9.10
<Cimi> because could be that the next gtk version will be released in august 2009
<kwwii> Cimi: yeah, I assumed we will have to live without transparency this time around
<Cimi> but that sucks
<kwwii> yes, that does suck
<Cimi> because this means we may don't have a stable transparency for 10.04
<Cimi> drivers needs to be updated
<kwwii> I mean, we could ship with any all plugins turned on if it looks good
<Cimi> and fixed
<Cimi> It won't
<Cimi> and it will crash
<kwwii> perhaps we could pick a couple of apps and test it
<kwwii> I haven't tested any plugins yet
<Cimi> because the issues remains
<kwwii> it does look good in the terminal though :-)
<Cimi> you can't use an application with a system tray
<kwwii> ouch, right
<kwwii> that does suck
<Cimi> yeah
<kwwii> the system tray needs fixing anyway
<Cimi> but as said
<Cimi> mirco is not going to fix
<kwwii> I think that I will post a screenshot with and without transparency to mark and tell him that if we want it we have to pay for it
<Cimi> unless someone inside ubuntu decide that rgba is more important
<Cimi> not to pay
<kwwii> ie. someone at or for canonical has to do it
<Cimi> just change the priority
<Cimi> mirco could work on this instead gdm
<kwwii> the problem with gdm is that he has been working on that for more than a year
<Cimi> gdm face browser is IMHO *fucking useless*
<kwwii> so they really want him to finish this up
<Cimi> 99% of the PCs have just 1 account installed
<kwwii> yeah, I thought about that too
<kwwii> and you only spend like 30s at that screen
<Cimi> and 99% of the time on your pc is supposed to be inside your DE, not on the DM!
<Cimi> fucking useless
<Cimi> as said
<Cimi> a lot of time and money wasted
<Cimi> and as consequence
<Cimi> we won't have transparency for more then 2 years
<Cimi> because the testing period will start in 9.10, and maybe won't be stable in time for 10.4
<DanaG> I'd rather they figure out a way to get native-resolution framebuffer.
<DanaG> Having usplash all stretched out of whack is annoying.
<DanaG> One workaround: calculate a way to compensate for the stretching, by reverse-stretching.
<Cimi> v86d does the trick
<Cimi> you can use every resolution you like
<DanaG> Even ones that aren't in the VBE modes?
<kwwii> as far as framebuffers go, I think that there will always be problems
<DanaG> I wonder if there's any reliable way to detect whether the LCD stretches.
<DanaG> If console uses AxB and Xorg uses CxD, stretch the splash to make it look like it matches the latter.
<Cimi> DanaG, you can use archlinux ;)
<DanaG> What does that have to do with anything?
<DanaG> =Ã¾
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-07
<m-c> Hello artwork fellows.  Very nice Heron desktop, in 8.04.  May I ask what is probably a FAQ?  Under what license is the artwork distributed within Ubuntu distributed?
<__mikem> so, heres my question, lately ubuntu is starting to fall behind in the looks department. I was wondering how the effort to come up with a new interface for 8.10 was going?
<nothlit> __mikem: the plan is theme teams, so in terms of gtk, things like new wave, or a variant of what _MMA_'s working on etc, and just a selected background from the various submissions that will accrue
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-08
<__mikem> nothlit: do you have a screenshot of the current product?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-01
<SiDi> hi
<robsta> morning
<robsta> ping kwwii
<SiDi> hi
<thorwil> moin!
<robsta> hey thorwil
<SiDi> hi thorwil
 * thorwil traces outlines for a freelance job
<SiDi> kwwii, ping ^^
<kwwii> SiDi: pong
<SiDi> What's up ?
<kwwii> reading through and ansering emails on the list
<knome> any regexp wizard? :P
<kwwii> mat_t: did you see this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Numerals ?
<SiDi> kwwii, when did u find the time to visit all barcelona ? Oo
<SiDi> knome, tell me i'm meant to have studied them :d
<kwwii> SiDi: I spent 10 hours one day doing nothing but walking around and taking pictures :p
<SiDi> kwwii, wow :p
<SiDi> there were even places i didnt know myself :[
<kwwii> ;)
<SiDi> why didnt you make a sexy photo of the whole front of the sagrada familia by the evening ?
<SiDi> its awesome :P
<kwwii> knome: what's the problem?
<kwwii> hehe, I didn't like the way it looked with the cranes behind it
<knome> nothing anymore, except php not understanding my preg string :P
<SiDi> Are those animal photos from the Zoo of barcelona ?
<kwwii> I took a lot more pics than I posted
<kwwii> no, they are from a farm here in bavaria
<SiDi> oh okey
<SiDi> none of you ever saw the white gorilla of Barcelona ? :P
<kwwii> nope, I missed that#
<SiDi> thats a shame
<SiDi> was the last one in the world, and he's dead now
<SiDi> kwwii, btw, did you talk to the author of the notify-osd icons about the battery ones i made ?
<kwwii> SiDi: not yet, I was still hoping to get a response on the font link I posted earlier
<kwwii> SiDi: mat_t is the person you want to talk to :)
<SiDi> the font link ?
<SiDi> mat_t, ping ? :D
<robsta> hi kwwii
<kwwii> robsta: hey
<mat_t> SiDi, hi :)
<SiDi> hello mat_t
<SiDi> Do you mind having a look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-May/010514.html please ?
<mat_t> sure
<SiDi> Cheers
<mat_t> np - looking now
<mat_t> SiDi, where would these icons be used?
<SiDi> in gnome-power-manager and xfce4-power-manager's battery state notifications when the user presses XF86Power
<SiDi> currently gpm shows the generic "info" icon (the one like a light bulb)
<SiDi> and xpm shows the panel's battery icon
<SiDi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/NotifyOsd Example here
<mat_t> SiDi, it's nice, but we don't want to use green or yellow - the decision was to use grayscale + red (for warnings) only
<SiDi> even very desatured green / yellow ? :]
<mat_t> yeah :)
<SiDi> :[
<mat_t> the battery can still change
<SiDi> and what if i make those in black & white then ? :p
<mat_t> that would be cool
<SiDi> (and maybe some pink for the midlow one :p)
<SiDi> btw, these notifications are normally triggered by the user himself (unless low on battery -> warning case)
<SiDi> so there shouldnt be such a "drawing attention from focus" problem
<mat_t> sure - we don't want to create exceptions though
<SiDi> Okey
<SiDi> Give me a few mins for a black n white version then ^^
<mat_t> thx :)
<SiDi> For the middle low (~30%) one, am i allowed to have ~10% red or not ? :p
<mat_t> SiDi - the red should only appear when the panel icon turns red
<mat_t> so that we have a consistent message
<SiDi> Okey
<SiDi> mat_t, http://filebin.ca/bfejfq/notification-battery_0.2.tar.gz here it is
<kwwii> funny, you both sat across the table from each other last week and I bet you didn't even know it :p
<SiDi> We didnt :D
<SiDi> c'mon, im sure you still dont know wht i look like kwwii :D
<SiDi> btw, i thought about these icons the day after art session :X
<kwwii> SiDi: honestly, I don't :p
<kwwii> I just repackaged them for the breathe team, so it is much easier to make changes
<mat_t> SiDi, thx, looking now
<mat_t> SiDi, cool, would be good to test against the bubble background as well
<mat_t> see how the inside part work against dark background
<macvr> kwwii: hi, regarding the network manager icons for breathe... have to checked the screenshots of the icons? or do u still need to see the icons with light/dark backgrounds?
<macvr> U^
<kwwii> macvr: to be honest, I was still trying to find the email with the attachment :p I found several others in the meantime ;)
<kwwii> but not the one I wanted
<macvr> kwwii: wait..
<SiDi> mat_t, gonna make a vid, sec
<macvr> kwwii: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-June/010582.html
<kwwii> macvr: thanks
<kwwii> macvr: I think that the light version seems to need more definition and better antialiasing
<kwwii> the slight curve is hard to do right at that size
<macvr> kwwii: no they are all the same version on different panel backgrounds...only the dark is a bit darker
<macvr> kwwii: yeah , the lower most bar is not a curve at the bottom :P
<kwwii> macvr: one thing to think of is the use of color...we are trying to limit the use of color in the panel to make it more effective
<macvr> kwwii: oh , no... the lack of color in win7 looks unattractive :(
<kwwii> I would aruge that the need to show an icon for connection at all is a bug and that the use of the icon is for informative purposes. Ideally all of this would be transparent to the user so we would be correct to move in the direction of less is more
<macvr> kwwii:but dont u think that the user would want to know tht status of the signal, and be notified about the strength if he moves away? right now the only notification he gets is if the signal is lost, if u take out the icon " for wireless" that would be bad, maybe ethernet is not needed... still i dont think this color is too much of a distractor .
<kwwii> the bars already represent strenght, why does it need color as well?
<macvr> kwwii: and we still havent removed the icon, so breathe might require one atleast then :)
<macvr> kwwii: well for the lower signals, the red/yellow color is a quick indicator.
<kwwii> macvr: sure, breathe is free to do as it pleases
<SiDi> Damn, 5 minutes for uploading  a poor video
<kwwii> red=problem to me
<macvr> kwwii: yup, low signal sometimes leads to poor transfers, so i think it is a problem.
<kwwii> poor != problem
<kwwii> none = problem
<SiDi> i must agree with kwwii
<kwwii> lol, I give up on trying to sound intelligent
<SiDi> im always on low signals
<SiDi> cause im in public places
<macvr> kwwii: oh... ok. so which color would be ideal for low signal? yellow?
<SiDi> no color, macvr :)
<macvr> SiDi: :(
<SiDi> a low signal is a normal thing. When it goes at 20/30 % there begin the connectivity problems
<SiDi> but anything above is just a bit slow, but its normal in many cases
<kwwii> I think that signal strength doesn't need a color
<macvr> SiDi: the red is usedfor 25%
<macvr> kwwii: ok.. , i just thought that the old hi-color uses blue for all , so wanted to spice it up... :P
<kwwii> the connection animation might use red and green to denote that a connection was established or not...the red is also good for when you lose connection
<SiDi> http://filebin.ca/ctrxoj/out-1.ogv mat_t
<kwwii> everything else is just overkill, if you ask me
<kwwii> going online is not the momentous occasion it used to be :9
<macvr> kwwii: yup..!
<macvr> kwwii: but if u guys do the icon in greyscale it would look exactly like the win7 wireless icons :(
<SiDi> oh btw macvr during the connection animations, do you make the distinction between the connection part and the DHCP query part ?
<macvr> SiDi: ya
<SiDi> macvr, not our fault if they copy our genious ideas :p
<macvr> SiDi: but we still havent implemented it... have we? so they walk away being the genius!
<SiDi> macvr, i cant recall of microsoft having voluntarily made a good usability choice
<macvr> kwwii: i was mentioning the greyscale of the present wireless hi-color icons
<macvr> SiDi: they never did , nor will they ever!
<kwwii> well, simple indicators are what they are
<kwwii> simple
<kwwii> there is little creativity in showing the levels of something with so few pixels
<mat_t> SiDi, looks great
<SiDi> good :]
<mat_t> :)
<macvr> kwwii: what about greyscale of the ones i'v made?
<kwwii> macvr: well, I stil think the form needs slight improvements
<macvr> kwwii: ok.
<kwwii> but otherwise, nice
<macvr> SiDi: <rant>M$ is so horrible! that they do not provide the transparent windows borders when it can easily be done by a simple uxtheme modifications! i feel the only reason they are not doing it is just to sell more of the ultimate version! <rant>
<SiDi> of course, what do you think ? they wanted the netbook edition not to be able to run more than an app at a time
<macvr> kwwii: ok... i'll see if i can make one in greyscale... :)
<SiDi> I dont know if they count their endless popup messages and such as apps though
<macvr> SiDi: 3
<macvr> SiDi: but that seems to have been scrapped!, also they are adding the size limit!
<macvr> for netbooks
<macvr> kwwii: would the icons looking like the notify-osd be fine for the panel as well?
<kwwii> macvr: well, the forms yes, but not the style as it would be too weak on certain backgrounds
<macvr> kwwii: yup... i was asking for the form... didnt want to do a lot of work for this curved style and not be used !
<SiDi> macvr, its things that happen though :P
<macvr> SiDi: got to get used to it :P
<kwwii> macvr: ideally, whatever we present in the panel would use the same metaphor as what is used in the notifications (or elsewhere, for that matter)
<macvr> kwwii: actually that was what was discussed in the mailing list... but i thought of using these icons in the notifications :P
<kwwii> macvr: right, unfortunately, I was somewhat away from my email last week and the breathe discussion didn't get noticed until I returned home
<kwwii> having time to discuss things directly in irc works much better than email :)
<kwwii> well, for some things
<macvr> does anyone know what "unset" for the fill and stroke means? since i'm new to inkscape
<SiDi> Dunno, got it in french here :]
<kwwii> it means remove it
<kwwii> or there is no fill/stroke
<kwwii> where do you see that?
<macvr> kwwii: how come it will say there is no fill/stroke even thought the colors are displayed? i'm checking the notify-osd icons
<SiDi> Oo
<kwwii> macvr: which one specifically? I'll open it and then we can figure this out
<macvr> all
<macvr> wireles
<kwwii> macvr: ungroup things
<kwwii> the groups themselves have no traits
<kwwii> but the objects within them do
<macvr> kwwii: ? how do i do that? u mean the borders and the bars?
<kwwii> oh, and unset=black
<kwwii> so there are elements with fills and stuff but the black stuff says "unset" which means it has a black fill by default in svg
<macvr> kwwii: what is the benefit of unset rather than using the regular black fill/stroke?
<kwwii> wow, those svgs are not very nice in an xml editor
<kwwii> macvr: to be honest, I think that was done by a script to reduce the size of the svg
<kwwii> for instance, in every svg there is a polka dot pattern
<kwwii> freaky
<kwwii> I really don't remember doing that
<macvr> kwwii: ya i saw the dots :)
<macvr> kwwii: ok... thanx...  will try to work on the icons ... it try to see if i can make the icons which display the curves in the greyscale[just to make sure it doesnt resemble M$ :P], but if not will make thme like regular bars :)
<macvr> kwwii: also the panel icons need to be of the 22px?
<kwwii> macvr: some are 22x22, some are 16x16
<kwwii> depending on what you are working on
<macvr> kwwii: the old high color are in 22px, i'll see what can be done... thanx
<kwwii> macvr: right, I think they are 22x22 and the current ones are just padded 16x16 icons in a 22x22 image
<macvr> kwwii: so for best usage? which size do i do?
<kwwii> macvr: well, try it at 22 and see how it looks on the panel itself
<kwwii> I think that 16x16 looks better because you have more paddign to the panel edge
<kwwii> but depending on what the shape of the icon is this can vary
<macvr> kwwii: could u explain that? if i wanted a curve?
<kwwii> ie a 4px horizontal bar in the middle of the 22px icon has plenty of padding anyway :)
<kwwii> it is an issue of vertical panel from the top and bottom of the icon to the edge
<kwwii> see what looks best for the form you are using then make a decision and make them all that size
<macvr> ok.
<SiDi> mat_t, so, is there a chance to have those icons in Human, so that i can begin patching the power managers ?
<mat_t> SiDi, sure, put them in \
<mat_t> thanks - good work
<SiDi>  i dont think i can put them anywhere myself :)
<kwwii> SiDi: I can help you with that :)
<SiDi> good ! :P
<kwwii> SiDi: send me a tar.gz (or whatever) with your final versions per email and we can continue the discussion from there
<SiDi> okey
<SiDi> i'll do a few tweaks and make sure i vacuum the defs of the svg's then
<kwwii> I am working on an update for the icon theme package currently anyway
<SiDi> give me 10 mins :)
<SiDi> any new icons planned ? :D
<kwwii> no hurries, send me something by tomorrow or so
<kwwii> for now I am trying to clean out the cruft
<kwwii> things change so quickly without notice :)
<kwwii> developers seem to like playing icon-name-bingo
<SiDi> yeh :P
<SiDi> the xfce icon names are.. weird
<SiDi> oh, any idea whos responsible for the wiki themes ?
<kwwii> well, it depends on which wiki
<kwwii> the kubuntu people take care of their own theme, for instance
<kwwii> but they are still using the one I made for them a long, long time ago :p
<SiDi> well, any idea how to get started to make a theme ?
<SiDi> i want one for the xubuntu wiki :D
<knome> SiDi, ask me for help once you've started :P
<SiDi> Cause the brown doesnt look sexy with our blue custom menu :P
<SiDi> knome, no :p its my toy !
<SiDi> you go design an usplash before i _really_ do what i said i'd do knome ;)
<kwwii> time for a meeting
<SiDi> oh btw, Human doesnt have the gpm-ups-xxx icons
<SiDi> only the gpm-ups-xxx-charging
<knome> SiDi, meh
<SiDi> why
<knome> ;)
<SiDi> i wonder if i should go on karmic
<knome> why not?
<SiDi> cause i need to send a dmesg to a kernel.org guy with the very kernel i have now
<SiDi> but i cant till im back home
<SiDi> cause i'll need another machine to get the dmesg while this one is booted
<SiDi> well
<SiDi> long story :p
<knome> hmh
<knome> i need to go wash my hand
<SiDi> my keyboard doesnt work with vanilla kernel
<knome> a sneezed a bit too hard
<SiDi> so i use some boot options
<SiDi> and i gotta get a dmesg with a debug option but my keyboard's broken then ^^ so gotta ssh
<SiDi> and got no ssh
<knome> ehm
<macvr> kwwii: are u there?
<macvr> kwwii: i'v just tried a icon concept in the grey scale and sent it to the mailing list. could u check it out?
<macvr> kwwii: ping!
<SiDi> if he doesnt answer, you should give him some time instead of pinging him again and again :D
<macvr> SiDi: it was nearly half hr so..
<macvr> SiDi: did u check the mail?
<SiDi> no :P
<macvr> SiDi: could u check it out?
<SiDi> that looks damn blur to me :/
<macvr> he wanted a 24px size...
<macvr> but even so... its is just a rough mockup... what do u think of the design?
<macvr> SiDi: just made up that design, since the last time i was herein the irc ! i'm no way an expert to make a production ready icon in such a short time :P
<SiDi> its not really usable as it is :P
<macvr> noway
<SiDi> i honnestly preferred it with colour
<macvr> u cant use that, it has a background
<SiDi> apart from that i meant
<SiDi> i dont know if its the scaling + png rendering but they look both blur and aliased here :P
<macvr> i too want color, but the team seems to want something that doesnt disturb!
<SiDi> i guess its a price to pay for curved icons at size a resolution, but still
<macvr> how do i do the antialaised?
<SiDi> you cant really do it :p
<macvr> oh...
<SiDi> Ask kwwii if its possible to go for black & white & one unique colour as the current one
<SiDi> cause white on dark background defo doesnt look nice to me. and i have tons of systray colorfull icons anyways :]
<macvr> does he usually go off for hrs?
<SiDi> He's got a social life too, you know :)
<SiDi> and he works for Canonical
<macvr> it would be useful if we know when he is away! and when online
<SiDi> No privacy for him ?
<macvr> i didnt mean thaat way :(
<SiDi> dashua, friend request on *-look.org , you evil :[
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-02
<dashua> SiDi: Heya
<SiDi> hi ^^
<dashua> Confirmed :)
<dashua> Sorry, I didn't see it =/
<SiDi> hehe :P
<dashua> Wow.  Up to almost 7000 downloads and a piss poor rating
<dashua> That just doesn't seem right
<dashua> In just over a month, damn saboteurs
<SiDi> Well, i personally vote down any cursor theme generated by a dirty script
<SiDi> but apart from that i usually dont vote down much
<SiDi> i think its not worth much anyways
<SiDi> there are total pieces of crap with over 85%
<SiDi> just because its a pale copy of windows or macos
<dashua> Hey SiDi, I tried out moblin and it's pretty damn cool, just no broadcom yet
<SiDi> oh, didnt have the time for that yet :p
<SiDi> neither got the netbook
<dashua> Yeah, if it looks like OSX or Windows it gets good ratings
<dashua> I really like the interface
<dashua> Much better than UNR
<dashua> For a netbook
<dashua> I just tried a live USB
<SiDi> ah
<SiDi> i killed an USB key like that
<SiDi> wrote on its mbr when trying to restore grub x_x
<dashua> Damn
<SiDi> ping
<SiDi> IRC died..
<dashua> SiDi: ping
<SiDi> ty
<SiDi> damn gmail
<SiDi> my gmail theme goes red after 2 AM
<SiDi> to ensure i go bed x_x
<dashua> That's cool
<SiDi> i wanna code
<SiDi> coded a daemon for volume notifications in xubuntu
<SiDi> adding some code to make sure it syncs the track/card to watch with xfce4-mixer
<dashua> You're getting some nice work done on notifications for xubuntu
<dashua> I really should try it on my netbook
<SiDi> Indeed you should :D
<dashua> I bet it runs like a dream
<SiDi> Of course :D
<dashua> I just really need compiz
<SiDi> it boots in 2 secs, and 4 on a pentium II (i lie)
<SiDi> ah
<dashua> Wow
<SiDi> compiz doesnt use xfwm4, so i dont use compiz
<SiDi> (actually xubuntu is longer to load than ubuntu x_x theres a bug in xfce 4.6.0 that was discovered too late and that isnt fixed yet)
<SiDi> (but its more reactive afterwards :p)
<dashua> Well, Jaunty boots in about 16 seconds on my SSD ext4
<dashua> Pretty quick
<dashua> XPS is actually pretty fast too, but a regular hd
<SiDi> XPS ?
<SiDi> 16, yeh :P
<dashua> Dell m1530 laptop
<dashua> 16 is the netbook
<SiDi> Okey :)
<SiDi> i rewrote my code twice and it still works wtf :/
<knome> haha
<SiDi> well
<SiDi> still crashes when switching sound card though
<knome> meh
<SiDi> good night knome
<knome> night SiDi :)
<macvr> wow what a quiet room !
<macvr> kwwii: hi... free?
<SiDi> working people, here ! :p
<macvr> SiDi: guess u are not among those working!
<kwwii> macvr: hi
<SiDi> macvr, cleanin the xubuntu wiki actually
<kwwii> actually, I was heading out in a few minutes...it has been somewhat quite today
<macvr> kwwii: did u have time to check the nm icon i sent in the mail... its just a rough mockup , but would ubuntu be interested in that design?
<macvr> guess i caught u just in time!
<kwwii> macvr: hrm, I can't find that email...was it to me personaly?
<kwwii> or is it on the list?
<macvr> nope i sent it as a reply on the list... wait let me find it..
<rigobot> hi all!...if i have a suggestion for an icon, is there a place to put the svg/png proposed?
<kwwii> macvr: I found it
<SiDi> macvr, the one to convince is _MMA_ btw :) he's the Breathe guru
<SiDi> macvr, use the Submissions page with the template too, its _really_ easier to find the pics back
<SiDi> rigobot, for Breathe ?
<SiDi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions
<rigobot> yes,sorry
<macvr> SiDi: now i'v moved to a higher goal! targetting ubuntu!
<kwwii> macvr: they still seem to large to me (they fill up too much of the vertical space) and a bit to rough still
<macvr> SiDi: i'm not sure breathe would be interested in greyscale :( ,
<rigobot> Sidi: thank
<kwwii> macvr: I like the idea but I am not sure if the rounded bars can work like that
<kwwii> I am guessing that they need to be more rounded
<kwwii> and/or thinner
<macvr> kwwii: they are lagre , it was just a rough mockup... i tried to get it to u yday, so pretty rough.. :(
<kwwii> currently we are using horizontal lines in the icons for notifications so these would not fit with that any more
<kwwii> if you add these to breathe be sure to add icons for the notificaitons which also match
<macvr> kwwii: they do need to get thinner, i'll try to get something, with that shape? is it fine as design shape? also i found it was better getting the curve displayed if done at the 128px , rather than a 22px...
<kwwii> well, in the end the icons will only be shown at 22x22 pixels so that is the one you have to worry about
<SiDi> hi thorwil
<thorwil> hi all
<kwwii> hi thorwil
<macvr> kwwii: yup, its just the icon scale down better and have a decent shape for some reason, will try ...
<macvr> kwwii: will get back if i have something decent to show :)
<kwwii> macvr: cool, happy drawing ;)
<macvr> :)
<thorwil> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/log/?p=569
<kwwii> lol, are they still trying to sell that?
 * kwwii heads out to the biergarten...bbl
 * SiDi had a keyboard revolt :/
<SiDi> Am i allowed to love the current Breathe icon and be upset at all those current efforts to get rid of it ?
<thorwil> SiDi, you mean the folder icon? no, you are not :p
<SiDi> Grr :[
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-03
<macvr> anyone here? i have a ques!
<thorwil> somewhat
<macvr> thorwil: hi, the dpi and ppi are the same?
<thorwil> macvr, that's dots versus points per inch
<macvr> i understand that but , why i had the doubt is , gimp allows any number of dpi  but inkscape sets a max for the certain size, why is that?
<thorwil> macvr, no wait, actually ppi is pixel per inch
<thorwil> so dpi for printing and ppi for the digital realm
<macvr>  i understand the full form , but what effect do they have on the output?
<thorwil> macvr, your artwork in inkscape already has a certain size
<thorwil> and the mapping to the output in pixels depends on the resolution you assume
<macvr> thorwil: i'm trying to make an icon in 2px , so doing it in inkscape is better or in gimp?
<macvr> 22px^
<macvr> does gimp allow transparency?
<thorwil> icon creationis usually simpler in inkscape
<thorwil> yes
<macvr> i meant transparency of the paint? , not the background.
<thorwil> macvr, create your icon in inkscape with a size of 22px x 22px, set resolution on export to 90 dpi, which reults in 22px mapped to 22px
<thorwil> yes
<macvr> thorwil: where do i set it in inkscape?
<macvr> ok.. fund it!
<macvr> found it!
<macvr> thorwil: thank you, i didnt realize the diff, since i was usually exporting the larger size at a smaller px, at that time the dpi is not customizable freely! now i understand... thanx
<thorwil> in the export dialog, i hope. i think you can set default dpi in the preferences somewhere
<macvr> :) thanx
<thorwil> np
<thorwil> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2008
<SiDi> the 8 is WOW
<SiDi> we should get it in karmic just to say we got a bigger fish than 7
<thorwil> this as bg would rock ;)  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/8-cell-simple.gif
<kwwii> nice
<savvas> SiDi: we have bigger fish to fry :P
<thorwil> kwwii, sounds like something i have been mentioning a couple of times, flash-supported gui building: http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009/06/adobe-launches-flash-catalyst-tool-for-rapid-ui-design.ars
<kwwii> thorwil: wow, I will pass that on to our new flash UI guy
<kwwii> he has been looking into doing python and clutter and all kinds of stuff
 * thorwil wants one floss graphics-system with scripting and an top-notch authoring environment to cover all of desktop gui, web-apps and entertainment
<kwwii> thorwil: you are not the only one :)
 * kwwii heads out to test new lenses (everyone loves getting a gift!)...bbiab
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<SiDi> mat_t, hello. Do you receive ayatana mails ?
<mat_t> SiDi, hi yes I do
<SiDi> Alright, just sent a mail with that icon Mark wanted for when the AC is plugged
<SiDi> mind giving me hints to improve it ? :)
<SiDi> It's here for curious ubuntu-art people : http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7791/notificationbattery100p.png :)
<macvr> SiDi: how about making the bolt in black?
<macvr> and at an angle of 45
<SiDi> macvr, the background for the pic is black already
<SiDi> I'll try, sec
<macvr> i know but, the icon is what matters, or making the bolt darker?
<macvr> than the battery
<SiDi> i'll try that in a sec
<SiDi> got some folks to help in #xubuntu right now
<macvr> SiDi: np...
<SiDi> I dont think it looks great at all :/
<SiDi> The icon's form looks weird when rotated
<macvr> SiDi: someone in the ayatana list had asked for the battery straight up? i think it was mark? did u try it like that?
<SiDi> http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7791/notificationbattery100p.png / http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7791/notificationbattery100p.png / http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7791/notificationbattery100p.png
<SiDi> straight up ? what do you mean ?
<macvr> instead of sideways, standing
<SiDi> oh
<SiDi> I dont think it'd be sexier personally :p
<macvr> i think the 3rd is good
<SiDi> It'll be a lot of work to rotate the icon
<SiDi> Cause the whole light gradients would have to be redone
<macvr> i think mark had asked for it, probably to save space!
<SiDi> and i'm far from skilled enough for this ^^
<SiDi> It wont save space :)
<SiDi> the place for the icon is square
<macvr> the width
<macvr> oh!
<macvr> ok.
<macvr> then why change something which looks good!
<macvr> the 3rd image with the dark flash looks good, btw the presentation was a cool idea
<SiDi> http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7791/notificationbattery100p.png this one you mean ?
<thorwil> SiDi, yeah, great presentation
<mat_t> SiDi, I like the original
<SiDi> Damn, everyone reads ayatana :P
<SiDi> mat_t, me too :] But it looks a bit blurry in the notifications :/
<macvr> this one> http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7791/notificationbattery100p.png
<mat_t> SiDi, maybe try with the lighter bolt
<SiDi> i'll redraw it without curves and with slightly lighter colors in minutes
<SiDi> gotta get something to drink first :O
<SiDi> macvr, mat_t thorwil http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7791/notificationbattery100p.png
<thorwil> SiDi, can you make the zick-zack slightly larger?
<macvr> my vote is still > http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7791/notificationbattery100p.png   :P
<mat_t> SiDi, try slightly brigher, subtle outline around the bolt - will make it look sharper
<kwwii> SiDi: the bolt seems to touch the top and bottom too closely, if you ask me
<kwwii> erm, bad explanation...sorry
<SiDi> kwwii, i got your point
<SiDi> subtle outline gives blurness mat_t :/
<SiDi> i was actually gonna try not-subtle-at-all
<mat_t> sure, whatever works best
 * mat_t reboots
<macvr> kwwii: i gave up on the curve! :( its just was crisp enough!  how is this? http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3705/21741737.png    http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/4346/95115686.png
<SiDi> macvr, users will kill you if that ever goes to Human
<SiDi> The current icon is bright for empty and darker blue for full
<kwwii> I would add a little bit of space between the bars, just a pixel or so
<SiDi> if you put bright for full and dark for empty, you'll upset a few million current users :]
<macvr> SiDi: they seem to be mooving away from color!
<kwwii> but he does have a point about the active parts being dark and the inactive lighter grey
<SiDi> Yeh but use the dark for full and light for empty :] people are too used to it, changing it will bring drama imo
<kwwii> as that is how we denote inactivity in gtk as well
<kwwii> SiDi: I was agreeing with you :p
<SiDi> its really not about the design, its the same problem than for a logo. You shouldnt change it even if it sucks, or you lose all your branding
<macvr> kwwii: so black os the incidator?
<macvr> as
<SiDi> kwwii, the yeh but was for macvr :D
<macvr> SiDi: but when u go dark then in dark panels it would not display well!
<SiDi> totally agree :D
<macvr> *i vote colors are best
<SiDi> http://filebin.ca/zjadkb/plugged.tar.gz
<SiDi> i'm for the last of the set
<SiDi> anyways i dont bother much about the panel icons : knome will make a whole set that will be the sexiest ever
<macvr> which?
<SiDi> get the tar.gz above
<kwwii> macvr: well, for light and dark panels we will have to have two versions of the icons
<kwwii> and a system to switch intelligently
<macvr> SiDi: still i think that the last one is blurry
<SiDi> kwwii, is it a good solution to change the icons each time the user changes his theme ? :/
<SiDi> macvr, the 4th is just too dark and thin :)
<macvr> kwwii: is that possible now?
<macvr> SiDi: try white in the size of the 4
<kwwii> SiDi: adjusting the color so that they can be seen should be acceptable
<SiDi> macvr, thats the #1
<kwwii> macvr: no, currently it is not possible
<macvr> kwwii: is knome working on a panel set?
<macvr> icon
<kwwii> and it might come down to use stating a fact like "our default panel is dark" and making a decision based on that
<kwwii> macvr: not sure
<kwwii> and I have to leave for band practice now, bbl
<macvr> kwwii: that wont be a good thing!
<macvr> bye
<macvr> SiDi: can the size of 1 be reduced a bit? just by 2-4 px just so that it doesnt touch the edges? its seems the best of the lot[after the black :P]
<SiDi> It doesnt touch the edges :[
<macvr> it looks like it does :P the diff between this and the black is the black has the white border , so it doesnt seem like it touches!
<SiDi> the 40 and 50 icons dont rock but the rest looks good to me
<SiDi> and its not black macvr :D
<macvr> SiDi: :P
<macvr> i still think that the darker one is better ! , or if u could get the white smaller?
<knome> ehm
<SiDi> macvr, if i get it smaller it goes really hard to see it (it is already)
<SiDi> but feel free to pick the svg and play with it macvr ;)
<SiDi> knome, ehm ?
<knome> SiDi, i've not said i'm going to implement the icon theme ;)
<knome> SiDi, at least not in the near future
<SiDi> oh, really ?
<knome> yeah. :P
<SiDi> knome, i thought we'd had a pinky icon theme with mice everywhere ! :(
<SiDi> btw, i got another completely crazy and stupid idea
<SiDi> put the mouse in a submarine, and put the submarine in a swimming pool, add some plants and fishes, make a photo, and there you got a wallpaper for karmic
<knome> :O
<SiDi> (although a mouse swimming in the ocean, in a digital painting / speed painting style would rock, but i gotta find the person who _can_ do that :/)
<macvr> SiDi: http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1239/newchz.png   how is this?
<SiDi> macvr, like mine ? :D
<macvr> but just that its crisper, without the stroke
<macvr> rransparent stroke was the prob
<macvr> transparent
<SiDi> Send me the SVG please macvr ;)
<macvr> SiDi: http://filebin.ca/oepwjb/new.tar
<SiDi> Sorry but it goes too blur without a stroke :/
<SiDi> there's not enough contrast
<SiDi> (macvr will kill me soon, i fear :p)
<macvr> that is another thing that need to be corrected, that shade of white doesnt do it justice :P
<SiDi> go for black then :D
<SiDi> and check out how it renders at 20% :D
<SiDi> and i really dont wanna try to split the zigzag in two parts for the 40/50/60 icons :[
<SiDi> thats hard and it'll likely not be sexy
<macvr> SiDi: http://imagebin.ca/view/GfrHLHih.html <how is this?
<SiDi> sexy :D
<SiDi> but show me what it gives @ 20% of battery please
<SiDi> https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg00170.html here is the current icon set if you dont have the 20% one
<macvr> SiDi: oh... this was the split u kept talking about!
<SiDi> Yeh, well :P
<SiDi> the icon has to be visible in dark and bright backgrounds
<SiDi> and possibly half dark half bright
<SiDi> thats what makes it hard :(
<SiDi> i'm gonna lag, i'll do something wick to my xfconf settings, brb
<macvr> how do u expect to maintain the same color for dark and light and expect it to look good?
<SiDi> by using light grey with a dark grey stroke :]
<macvr> i would say the best option to maintain visiblity change the color of the flash
<SiDi> Cant change ! :P
<macvr> that is a hard one...! will try to come up with a good combo , but it might take time to figure it out ... btw why dont u want to change it? is it in the guidelines? or ur design?
<SiDi> Its my design :]
<SiDi> if you change it, you have to manage the 40/50/60
<SiDi> cause they'll have both backgrounds
<macvr> that is not prob
<macvr> just add the gradients to the icons and the split icon will show in 2 colors?
<macvr> but not sure how it would look :P
<SiDi> Bad ? :D
<SiDi> gonna eat
<SiDi> see you
<SiDi> ping ?
<macvr> SiDi: how about setting the battery grey a bit darker?
<SiDi> feel free to do so ^^
<SiDi> im waiting for the food to be ready :D
<SiDi> (see i'm lazy :d)
<macvr> SiDi: http://imagebin.ca/view/kJjqHW0.html   < how is this?
<macvr> SiDi: http://imagebin.ca/view/08JHKv.html <
<SiDi> send me an svg and i'll play with it after lunch ;)
<SiDi> thanks for ur experimentations btw
<SiDi> pls drop me that at sidnioulz@gmail.com
<macvr> how does that look?
<SiDi> it looks cool
<SiDi> i need the svg to check in the bubble now ^^
<macvr> ok... in just amin i'll upload
<SiDi> see you soon
<SiDi> thanks
<SiDi> i need to suspend the PC though
<macvr> wait just a sec
<macvr> SiDi: ping
<macvr> SiDi: http://filebin.ca/rcnxuo/new---notification-battery-100-plugged.svg.tar i'v done only for the 100% , u can follow the gradient for the rest..
<SiDi> dashua, hey mate, sorry, completely forgot to make the xfwm for Hanso
<SiDi> let's say i'll work on it tonight :]
<macvr>  SiDi: http://filebin.ca/rcnxuo/new---notification-battery-100-plugged.svg.tar i'v done only for the 100%
<SiDi> thanks
<macvr> SiDi: it might be a bit darker than , what u would want but, i think the only way is finding ur best choice as a middle ground between the darkness i have added and ur original svg...
<SiDi> did you change the gradient too ?
<SiDi> macvr, i like it, it looks better in 20 and 100
<SiDi> now lets check in 50
<macvr> yes , i have changed the gradient in the background, grey , making it a bit darker, makes it better visible, with white
<macvr> flash
<SiDi> Okey, cheers
<SiDi> i'll redo the whole icons then
<macvr> have fun :)
<dashua> SiDi: No worries.  I see sabdfl is digging your ideas in ayatana ;).  Good work.
<SiDi> cheers
<dashua> Those battery icons work now or do I need that script?
<SiDi> idd they work, but they're not implemented in the power manager ^^
<SiDi> the script just shows what i have in mind
<dashua> Ah nice
<dashua> Watching the video now
<SiDi> :]
<SiDi> ive actually had comments from youtube people
<SiDi> i understand now why people say youtube comments are really dumb :]
<SiDi> the comment deleted by its author, i received it by mail, i still didnt understand it
<dashua> They're almost as useful as comments on Digg
<SiDi> except that comments on digg are understandable from times to times XD
<dashua> Yeah
<SiDi> kwwii, dashua do you know any ways to efficiently reduce the size of a svg file ?
<kwwii> SiDi: well, vacuum the defaults in inkscape
<kwwii> and save the file
<kwwii> then repoen it and do that again
<SiDi> alright, already doing this :]
<SiDi> why do it twice ?
<kwwii> or just close it and then open it and vacuum defaults
<kwwii> well, if you do not close it you won't get rid of everything
<kwwii> so you do not have to do it twice
<kwwii> but I always end up doing it that way because I forget
<kwwii> anyway
<kwwii> you could also save it as plain svg
<kwwii> that might or might not be smaller
<kwwii> not sure
<kwwii> there are probably scripts around which can reduce the size
<SiDi> like inkscape --vacuum-defs *.svg ? :D
<kwwii> adobe illustrator makes paths which are much smaller to begin with
<kwwii> sadly inkscape makes lots and lots of points
<SiDi> hm
<SiDi> Well, thanks :P
<SiDi> it'll stay at 100KB/icon
<kwwii> well, if that is the template, then it is understandable
<kwwii> it is not just one icon
<SiDi> macvr, what is your name ?
<Hanthor> hello?
<SiDi> hi
<Hanthor> you again?
<SiDi> i'm everywhere
<SiDi> you can't escape me
<Hanthor> yes
<SiDi> macvr, you dont want your name in the THANKS file in the package? :/
<Hanthor> so what did they talk about at UDS?
<Hanthor> Mark said that they would
<SiDi> about what exactly ? :]
<SiDi> We talked about many things
<Hanthor> arywork for Karmic
<SiDi> (esp. about the quality of the beer in spain, though)
<darkmatter> you can put my name in the thanks package :P something like 'darkmatter, thank you for NOT contributing, you're ideas are to radical you evil, evil person you' ;o
<SiDi> darkmatter, hm, i'll think about it :]
<SiDi> macvr, ping ? Do you want your nick in the thanks file or your actual name ?
<darkmatter> just put mac<guy>vr. deal with the complaints leter :O
<darkmatter> umm.. where did that e come from? o_O
<SiDi> i'll put mac<!darkmatter>vr.
<SiDi> a TCP packet from you, i would say
<Hanthor> were there any disscusions about arrwork at UDS?
<Hanthor> wow it isn't talk like a pirate day
<darkmatter> yargh matey?
<SiDi> We won't let anyone know
<SiDi> we keep everything for us, till november
<Hanthor> isn't first drop on august 27th
<SiDi> You wont have anything before november
<Hanthor> oh i see
<SiDi> (you should not believe a single word of what i say btw ~)
<Hanthor> ok
<SiDi> (except this phrase, maybe)
<knome> haha
<knome> SiDi, you are evil
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-04
<SiDi> knome, ?
<SiDi> :(
<SiDi> knome, why so ?
<knome> meh
<knome> you can wonder it out yourself
<SiDi> no :p
<SiDi> its cause i didnt thank knome ? :]
<knome> you fooled Hanthor ;P
<SiDi> oh this XD
<SiDi> indeed
<SiDi> i even joined all his channels
<SiDi> and said, Hanthor, everywhere !
<knome> o.o
<SiDi> now im playin ff xii :D
<knome> duh
<knome> atm i'm getting tired
<SiDi> huhoh
<SiDi> i spoke to a chicken
<SiDi> and killed a giant turtle
<SiDi> i love this game
<SiDi> hola spg76 !
<spg76> Hola.
 * _MMA_ waves
<SiDi> wow when did _MMA_ enter ? :
<knome> SiDi, he backspaced
<_MMA_> buenos noches
<_MMA_> SiDi: 'bout 2hrs ago.
<knome> damn, i lost my messenger connectivity
<_MMA_> spg76: As I work alot during the week, Im more active here on the weekend.
<knome> "work", what's that
<_MMA_> Something that gets the the $ I need for my triple monitor setup. (and a Wii for the kids) ;)
<spg76> _MMA_: I'll try to join the channel more often from now on.
<knome> ;))
<spg76> That includes weekends.
<_MMA_> spg76: That would be great. Especially when we're working on some art and just need qyich questions answered.
<spg76> _MMA_, Yeah, that's true. Sometimes a mail to the list for some little feedback it's too much :)
<_MMA_> :)
<spg76> _MMA_: Are we open the wiki page for submissions? Or do you have to make some cleanup?
<_MMA_> spg76: Open? yes. I'd /like/ the submissions to focus on the areas I outlined in the email.
<_MMA_> But, generally, it's open.
<spg76> OK.
<spg76> _MMA_: One more thing.
<spg76> Do you received the files that I sent you a few days ago?
<_MMA_> spg76: Yes. I just haven't uploaded them to BZR.
<_MMA_> spg76: I think you are at the point artistically that you should have full BZR access. You would just have to learn a bit about it.
<spg76> _MMA_: Well, I'm willing to do it now :) Just let me know what I have to do and how should be the process and I'll do what I can.
<_MMA_> spg76: Lest get together next weekend and do a little teaching session. Ok?
<_MMA_> *let's
<spg76> _MMA_: OK.
<_MMA_> spg76: Ill also try to find the time to write you up a step-by-step guide before I leave for my mini-trip this weekend. Something to play with.
<_MMA_> For now, I gotta run. Later guys.
<spg76> _MMA_ That would be great. Thanks.
<macvr> SiDi: hi...
<SiDi> hellow
<SiDi> whats up ?
<macvr> slept off yday...!
<macvr> how come u didnt maintain the the flash throught the icons?
<macvr> through out
<macvr> SiDi: was it a conscious effort or did u miss the difference in the flash ?
<SiDi> the flash ?
<SiDi> err, what did i miss exactly ? :d
<macvr> i had duplicated the flash, thats what made it a bit crisp...
<SiDi> oh
<macvr> u'll notice the difference if u just look at the 100 and the 90%
<SiDi> i see now
<SiDi> well, tell me next time XD
<macvr> i was sleepy, thats y i couldnt even complete sentences!
<SiDi> hehe
<SiDi> Well, it'll stay like that for now
<SiDi> i sent the file to ayatana already xD
<macvr> thats where i noticed:P
<macvr> SiDi: i had done the flash, just in case u wanted it, grab it from>>> http://filebin.ca/ebkues/correctedflash.tar <<< have a nice day...
<SiDi> the flash i took it out of the svg :p
<SiDi> oh, all the icons
<macvr> SiDi: the flash i took it out of the svg??
<SiDi> i thought you sent me the little flash image apart
<SiDi> i understood what you said now, thanks :]
<SiDi> i'll put them in 0.6
<macvr> SiDi: i noticed it only from ayatana mailing, so wanted to warn u before someone found it ! ya u can change it for next version...
<SiDi> anyways i'll wait for feedback from the ayatana people
<kwwii> SiDi: btw, it is normally not good to cross post to two mailing lists
<SiDi> ill probably have something to change
<SiDi> kwwii, aw
<SiDi> why that? :P
<kwwii> well, it simply gets confusing what was said where
<SiDi> true
<kwwii> but anyway, none of my team members have been around long enough to know about netiquette in mailing lists
<SiDi> sorry :p
<kwwii> no worries
<SiDi> kwwii, the way you said that is scary. Does it mean you eat people who work with you ? :|
<thorwil> kwwii, what, you didn't teach them netiquette with a cane!?
 * SiDi doesn't like Ã©tiquettes anyway. :(
<thorwil> SiDi, you don't like if everyone quotes in the same way, for example?
<SiDi> No, of course.
<SiDi> Well done stuff, correct behaviour, blah :P
<shadeslayer> is there a app which can increase resolution without reducing quality??
<thorwil> shadeslayer, i know that there are commercial tools, but i'm not aware of a free solution
<shadeslayer> thorwil: um anything like a website ??
<shadeslayer> something which can do the above??
<thorwil> shadeslayer, sorry, don't recall any names, so i'd have to google just like you do ;)
<shadeslayer> okies
<kwwii> there is little or no way to decently scale a picture up (by very much) without losign quality
<kwwii> losing
<shadeslayer> bah..
<shadeslayer> thanks anyways
 * SiDi will create a launchpad group for the protection of icons that are threatened of disappearing !
<knome> SiDi, like... what?
<SiDi> the breathe folder icon ! :(
<knome> don't know it :P
<macvr> knome: hi, are u making any icons for the panels?
<knome> macvr, not really.
<knome> macvr, SiDi always talks whatever ;)
<macvr> :)
<SiDi> meh
<SiDi> knome im sad
<SiDi> no more barcelona :(
<knome> SiDi, heh
<SiDi> gotta go back home cause these *** that manage my appartment told me i cant keep it next year :@
<macvr> SiDi: u went for half a day and u miss it?!!!
<SiDi> i gotta phone them now, and cant from spain x_x
<SiDi> macvr, i went for a day and a half actually
<SiDi> and for the ending party :D
<SiDi> and now ive been here a good week, taking holidays ;)
<macvr> oh... still hung over , couldnt find way back :P
<macvr> knome: i dont understand kwwii's idea of not having colors for the icons in the panel, and not being able to use white for the nm icons? hat is the direction ubuntu is going actually?
<macvr> anyinfo?
<macvr> what^
<knome> no, i don't know about the ubuntu general direction
<macvr> ok... thanx
<SiDi> mat_t, hope your computer had a good night
<SiDi> knome works on Xubuntu
<SiDi> but its the same
<SiDi> you're only allowed to use blue
<SiDi> and it has to be blue that fits well with other blue
<SiDi> and it has to have a moustache too
<knome> haha
<macvr> blue! meh
<macvr> blue=m$ :P
<SiDi> no
<SiDi> blue = xubuntu
<SiDi> they copied us
<knome> ms blue is different from the xubuntu blue
<SiDi> theirs doesnt have a moustache
<knome> macvr, http://xubuntublog.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/the-prettiest-of-the-buntus-is-coming/ <- if that reminds you of ms...
<macvr> knome: nope... :)
<SiDi> funny btw how people calls us the pretiest of all *buntus :d
<macvr> isnt kubuntu also blue?
<knome> macvr, yes, but it's a different blue altogether
<knome> SiDi, that's totally funny. especially when it's vinnl calling us that ;)
<macvr> damn mint! else green would have been fun
<SiDi> knome, i noticed people not from xubuntu were calling us that way
<SiDi> we have to make it a moto imo :d
<knome> o.o?
<knome> hah
<macvr> just realized , even apple is blue! :P
<SiDi> yeh but they got those damn scrollbars with the most horrible ever gradient
<SiDi> and just cause some ads said "hey this is cool"
<SiDi> people think mac Os is stylish
<knome> people think that white plastic is stylish
<knome> ;P
<macvr> everyone is blue but ubuntu! why is that?!
<SiDi> cause they couldnt challenge knome
<SiDi> :D
<knome> there is no reason why we could not be somthing else.
<macvr> plastic is out of fashion, its just apple trying to keep it hep!
<knome> need to eat ->
<macvr> why could u be something else?^
<knome> there is nobody restricting us
<SiDi> have a nice meal knome
<macvr> ha
<knome> mark shuttleworth doesn't come saying "you have to be pink" to use
<knome> *us
<SiDi> macvr, knome cares about us having our own identity, and hes totally right on this
<knome> nor blue ;)
<SiDi> pink ? hmm
<SiDi> other crazy ideas in my mind
<knome> Myrtti would like to see that :P
<knome> ok, now ->
<knome> bbl
<SiDi> (im the guy who ruins all the seriousness of knome by proposing completely stupid artwork ideas)
<macvr> SiDi: does knome also work in ubuntu/xubuntu?
<SiDi> he works only in xubuntu
<macvr> SiDi: any links for his artwork? the panel icons he has created, u were referring to ?
<SiDi> this was a joke macvr :p
<SiDi> hes done the default xubuntu wallpaper / gdm
<macvr> ah!
<SiDi> hes working on a theme now
<SiDi> i was meant to work on the usplash but it got... delayed. :D
<macvr> SiDi: http://imagebin.ca/view/GhfvCsf.html < how do devs make the icon at the small px?
<macvr> i'm just not able to get a crisp circle icon as a nm bar!
<SiDi> its pixelart ! :D
<SiDi> draw pixel / pixel
<macvr> SiDi: i tried that but circles, arcs are tough to get crisp enough for production :/
<SiDi> heh
<SiDi> thats true ;)
<macvr> have u tried karmic?
<SiDi> yeh
<SiDi> but i didnt boot on it much
<_MMA_> kwwii: So you think Andrew's folder submission is better than current or what?
<SiDi> _MMA_, i find it bad at little resolutions :/
<SiDi> looks almost circular on the bottom
 * SiDi prefers the shape of the current icon :p
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, it is pretty good
<kwwii> I really like the ideas he has shown
<kwwii> it works pretty well at smaller sizes but could use some more simplification
<_MMA_> kwwii: Well It's mostly derivative. I don't see anything new. Kinda the point. :)
<_MMA_> But generally, yeah. Best new one to come along. Good bash-up
<_MMA_> *mash-up
<kwwii> things could still improve but it is pretty nice
<kwwii> anyway, I am officialy on vacation as of 20min until the 14th
<kwwii> but I will still be around
<kwwii> I guess we can go ahead with the meeting
<kwwii> but it will suck without everyone
<kwwii> :(
<_MMA_> Sure. Im driving home this weekend. Will be well away from a PC.
<kwwii> monday night my band is playing :)
<_MMA_> \m/
<kwwii> and from what I have heard of the main act we are better :p
<_MMA_> hahahah Killer. :)
<kwwii> well, they have some deal in which they have to have 100 paying guests or else they have to pay for rent...@3â¬ per head
<kwwii> I was thinking that on Monday night I would be lucky to play to 30 people
<kwwii> I get the feeling that they are going to fill the place up with friends and hope not to have to pay :p
<_MMA_> Can often be the way.
<kwwii> well, we are going to kick their ass
<kwwii> they were all begging to use our equipment
<kwwii> my bass players ampeg head and cabinet is almost as old as I am :)
<_MMA_> kwwii: Oh. No. Bad form. And they are the headliners?
<kwwii> yepp
<_MMA_> pfftt
<kwwii> we headline on 1.8 at festival with 4 bands
<kwwii> playing 3rd
<kwwii> I am guessing that monday night will be telling
<kwwii> if they hate us we know what to work on :p
<kwwii> the first of august will be cool, it is at a sort of commune of hippy students in the middle of conservative catholic bavaria
<_MMA_> kwwii: Nice. :)
<kwwii> there are people camping out with kids, etc
<_MMA_> kwwii: Try to get some soundboards.
<_MMA_> Or even video.
<kwwii> well, if we ever get our new stuff mixed we can start out myspace page
<kwwii> my bass player stopped me on the street today to play a song we recorded the other day
<_MMA_> cool
<kwwii> we have everything on disk...just a matter of getting it mixed
<kwwii> anyway
<_MMA_> kwwii: I got to go to the studio last week. Lots of fun.
<kwwii> killer
<kwwii> time for sleep
<kwwii> see you
<SiDi> and why no concert at uds then kwwii ? :O
<_MMA_> Yeah. I hear Prague was the best for that.
<_MMA_> (best one)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-05
<macvr> hi ... does anyone know which mail , cory had listed the icons ESSENTIAL for the next release? i'm just not able to find that mail!
<macvr> found it... nevermind
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/15709/screenshot_HP9X2C.png
<dashua> Breathe portable media is sexxy
<macvr> dashua: is that ur screenshot?
<zniavre> wicj is this player please ?
<macvr> zniavre: looks like rhythmbox
<zniavre> o_O with rounded text aera ?
<macvr> nope sorry, its banshee
<zniavre> it looks realy good by the way but it is not RB
<zniavre> banshee ok tahnk you
<zniavre> thank*
<zniavre> i hav good feeling of those rounded texte zone it makes it smooth
<dashua> macvr: Aye, Banshee trunk.  Sorry, AFK
<thorwil> 8-} http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=34f0e2d4-795b-4c4c-964d-da99e85a39fa
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-06
<zniavre> http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot1.png   does the shadow is correct please ?
<knome> thorwil, if you order one of those (displays), will you order one for me as well ;)
<knome> zniavre, does not look totally wrong.
<knome> zniavre, i am bad with shadows, though.
<thorwil> knome, sure. right after my world tour!
<knome> :]
<knome> but really, the resolution is quite lousy
<thorwil> gnarg  http://www.flickr.com/photos/mairin/3599035712/
<knome> o.o
 * MetalMusicAddict waves.
 * MetalMusicAddict is _MMA_ (from a different PC.)
<MetalMusicAddict> macvr: Why did you remove your color of "document-save"? I think green was better there.
<macvr> i liked it too but , it was too similar to daniel's submission felt like cheating :P
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: ^
<MetalMusicAddict> Naa... That's what's needed sometimes.
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: also thought that someone might tell daniel himself to correct the color
<MetalMusicAddict> Also note, I won't be able to reply to the list 'till tomorrow night or so.
<macvr> np...
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: so should i add mine or , will someone tel daniel?
<MetalMusicAddict> Well since you nixed it now, just drop a note on the list.
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: did u check the emblems, i tried to keep them simple since they will never be viewed full... how are they?
<MetalMusicAddict> I really want to reply again to the thread about the spreadsheet mime. Nobody listened to my 1st post about setteling the look of the base mime 1st.
 * MetalMusicAddict looks again
<MetalMusicAddict> macvr: Oh yeah. Are they from scratch?
<macvr> yup, onlt for the downloads the world icon i copied off of the internet categories icon
<macvr> only^
<MetalMusicAddict> Really? And you just started with SVGs? :)
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: come on, they are just simple lines... are they usable? or need any editing?
<macvr> just started on 1 emblem then since i was on a roll , made 6!
<MetalMusicAddict> You'de be surprised how many can't even do that. ;)
<MetalMusicAddict> But yeah. I like 'em. Might need a little shine here and there.
<MetalMusicAddict> I wanna see what Seb says.
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: like my initial submissions for nm-signals?
<MetalMusicAddict> I think the "X" and "!" finishes are off from the others though.
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: hei x is me
<MetalMusicAddict> They have this edge shine that looks to be missing from the others. (I'd get rid of it)
<thorwil> macvr, i think the favorite star should be symmetrical. or have a clear perspective
<MetalMusicAddict> But I like the odd shape to the arrows.
<thorwil> macvr, for downloads, try to put the globe in front and/or make it larger
<MetalMusicAddict> thorwil: Really? Strait-on? I thought the perspective worked. Kinda quirky.
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: i had a tough time with x , i made that 1 fully, but ! i copied the lines and tried to remake from mail-important
<thorwil> MetalMusicAddict, yes, quirky. is Breathe quirky?
<MetalMusicAddict> thorwil: Well we don't have to be *SO* serious.:)
<macvr> thorwil: i wanted to have the perspective, atleast let the fav have its perspective , MetalMusicAddict wont let the folders !
<MetalMusicAddict> But I could take it or leave it.
<macvr> thorwil: i tried to put the globe ahead, but didnt look that good :(
<MetalMusicAddict> macvr: huh? What about the folders?
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: perspective.. :P
<MetalMusicAddict> Well as long as it hits the design points I'm open. ;)
<thorwil> the X strokes end with non 90 degree angles
<macvr> thorwil: also when it goes smaller there is a problem with the circle shape of the globe , hence i'v hid it in the 16px..
<macvr> thorwil: that was purposeful
<macvr> x
<thorwil> well, i hope if i cut that X in halves and flip one to compare them, they will match ;)
<macvr> thorwil: since i had the X not at as the tilted + , it created a weird effect! since i'm new i found this the best i could get, but if u can better it.. go ahead
<macvr> they wont :P
<MetalMusicAddict> macvr: As for the network icons, I really have to give more thought to it. I think I need to create a page for all of it. Listing where these all could be used. I have it on my list but I traveled back home this weekend (300 miles) to see my family so I can't get to it 'till next week.
<thorwil> macvr, i think synchronized is too close to some reload icons. plain ends on the arrows would move it away a bit
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: did u check dashua's screenshot>> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/15709/screenshot_HP9X2C.png < u can view the nm -icons in action
<thorwil> macvr, i can guide you through how to make sure things are symmetrical, but i will for sure not check each submission
<MetalMusicAddict> macvr: Yes I did. Slick. But like I said, I want to see more submissions before I make any switch.
<macvr> thorwil: will try the sync with plain ends but , tried this since i didnt want to do the same way it is always done...
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: no problem , just wanted u to check it out.. :)
<MetalMusicAddict> macvr: Keep the current submission up when you put up the edit with thorwils suggestions.
<macvr> ok
<SiDi> macvr, what do you think the battery icons are ? big cheating from me :) the original one is what holds 97% of the work, and i didnt do it ^^
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: why do all the actions have light from below? why not maintain the lights everywhere?
<SiDi> actually for the arrow icons having bottom light
<macvr> SiDi: :P   ... well then i'll just add them to spite daniel :P
<SiDi> i whined about it too, and i think seb too
<MetalMusicAddict> macvr: Talk to daniel about that. He's done them.
<SiDi> but it was forgotten amongst the big feedback and once the bottom light icons were polished it was a bit late
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: he said that u shot him down!
<MetalMusicAddict> macvr: Id have to look back. You gotta remember, you guys work on specific areas where I have to see things as a whole. Sometimes, past chats are forgotten.
<MetalMusicAddict> Lots to remember. :P
<SiDi> :p
<SiDi> the work part of artwork :p
<MetalMusicAddict> macvr: But you keep it in mind and bring it up next week. We'll revisit it then.
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: np... but check the light for the icons before proposing to replace human... i think the lights are very inconsistent..
<macvr> ok..
<MetalMusicAddict> macvr: Remember this is a process. So sometimes I'll let things in that are *almost* there to refine later.
<MetalMusicAddict> macvr: If I got hung up on everything to be 100%, we'd have like 10 icons. :P
<macvr> MetalMusicAddict: np...i understand...i'll remind u later... but there is a mail in the list "lighting effect of actions"...  incase i forget too :P
<MetalMusicAddict> Sure. I just can't get to it (my list email) from here.
<MetalMusicAddict> But I'm reading the web archive.
<macvr> thorwil: got sidetracked... symmetry ? how i did the x was , i made a rectangle , duplicated it and flipped it... but when something didnt look good i adjusted it...
<thorwil> macvr, well, you can see things like such non-straight angles in typography sometimes
<thorwil> macvr, anyway, you should make sure that things are either clearly symmetrical, or obviously not at all. "almost" is bad, as it nags the viewer
<macvr> thorwil: the problem i had was , i didnt want the X arms to be symmetrical! so i ended up having to adjust the edjes
<macvr> i didnt want the arms to point to the corners, hence i had the problems!
<thorwil> macvr, do you mean vertcial or horizontal symmetry now?
<macvr> i think the horizontal doesnt have much prob, but it more the vertical plane
<thorwil> macvr, to me it looks like the X is meant to be symmetrcial on both axes. if it is not, it should be more pronounced
<thorwil> macvr, you could study the letter X in various fonts to see some approaches
<macvr> ok... i'll have to be more careful, what i adjust :) i think i accidentally adjusted a wrong line and had to adjust the rest :( using the laptop to draw is tough!
<macvr> i think mouse would have been better.!
<thorwil> ouch, yeah :)
<macvr> usin the tap to lock and drag just makes it tough to release :( , sometimes i'll have to try several times to just get it to the right px!
<thorwil> macvr, if you have shape you need to tweak and later on need the other halve of it to be symmetrical ...
<macvr> thorwil: i think that where i went wrong, i didnt make the same changes on either sides!
<macvr> thats^
<thorwil> it's best to delete the halve of it, copy the remaining, flip it and use the arrange tools to place it exactly on the cut
<thorwil> in this case, you do have nodes exactly on the axis of symmetry
<macvr> thorwil: how do i erase? or delete part of the image?
<thorwil> macvr, with bezier tool, drag select all nodes on the bad side and hit delete key
<macvr> thorwil: oh... thats the only option :( an eraser like the one in GIMP would be wonderful
<thorwil> macvr, then select the nodes on the open side and make the segment straight (horizontal toolbar)
<thorwil> macvr, no, the other option is to use a rectangle
<macvr> horizontal toolbar? what is that?
<thorwil> make it cover the part you don't want anymore, select both, hit ctrl-shift-minus (substract, also in the menus)
<thorwil> macvr, are you on inkscape 0.46?
<macvr> s
<macvr> u mean the one on the top?
<thorwil> yes
<macvr> ok..
<macvr> unrelated... what is glyph meaning?
<macvr> thorwil: ^
<thorwil> just another term similar to sign, symbol, character
<macvr> ok... hear it sometimes in the mailing list, google didnt give a better reply... so was wondering
<macvr> thorwil: also, will the object combine when it is flipped ?
<thorwil> macvr, not automatically. use the arrage tools to place the half exactly on the cut line. then select both halves and do Path -> Union
<macvr> thorwil: ok...thank you... ill see how i can improve that X icon...  :)
<thorwil> you might want to play with 2 objects and the Align and Distribute tools a bit to see what each one does
<SiDi> Anyone living in dublin with a room/flat i could rent for this summer, by chance ? :P
<macvr> i havent used them untill now , but will play soon...
<macvr> thorwil: ^
<thorwil> good :)
<macvr> thorwil: thankx for the tips... :)
<thorwil> np
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-07
<macvr> anyone? feedback on this >>> http://imagebin.ca/view/6g3oDc.html << i'd want to use this as the base for the smileys? anyi have missed? is the color ok?
<macvr> anyone? feedback on this >>> http://imagebin.ca/popup/6g3oDc.html << i'd want to use this as the base for the smileys? anything i have missed? is the color ok?
<macvr> SiDi: feedback on this >>> http://imagebin.ca/popup/6g3oDc.html << i'd want to use this as the base for the smileys? anything i have missed? is the color ok?
<ryanprior> macvr: IMO you should use the *awesome* smileys. People love those.
<ryanprior> If you don't want to rip them off, you could at least use them as inspiration. The smiley you posted there has no style. :-(
<macvr> ryanprior: ? i dont know whic u are refering to? links pls?
<SiDi> too glossy for me :)
<ryanprior> macvr: http://www.google.com/search?q=%3Aawesome%3A+smiley
<macvr> ryanprior: but those icons dont have any gloss, or shade... are u sure that is the style for breathe?
<macvr> SiDi: but if the gloss isnt there it would look too close to the gnome icons! :(
<SiDi> i dont think that'd be so dramatic
<SiDi> i *hate* glossy smilies personally :D
<SiDi> get a mirror and tell me if you think your face looks like human flesh or like plastic :p
<macvr> i tried to make them look like buttons, not faces :P
<macvr> ryanprior: where u mentioning about the eyes? or just the whole look of the awesome smileys?
<ryanprior> basically the fact that it's recognizable
<ryanprior> it has spirit
<ryanprior> the :awesome: smiley is generally done in few colors, but it has vibrant colors, big expressive eyes, and it makes me happy to see it
<ryanprior> that's why it's so popular, so I'd say either just use that as a base and adapt it to what you want, or use it as inspiration to build a similarly expressive, happy smiley
<ryanprior> as far as being in the breathe style, the breathe style is "better than reality". That doesn't necessarily mean reality in all things. The tradition of smiley faces has never been to be realistic. So take what makes a smiley, and make it really shine, put a little gloss and lighting on it, and I'd hope it'll fit the breathe style fine.
<macvr> but i didnt recognize them :P   .... but i get ur point... i'll see what i can do to make it better , the problems i thought would arise with adding the white os the eyes , was with small sizes, i'm not sure i'll make them look good, but will try... :)
<macvr> s/os/of
<ryanprior> macvr: I took a big Awesome and just resized it down to 16x16
<ryanprior> http://ryanprior.com/awesome_tiny.jpg
<ryanprior> still easy to identify
<ryanprior> could use pixel tweaking of course
<ryanprior> but I don't think whites in eyes is a big deal so long as you use big eyes
<macvr> ryanprior: ok... will try...but i'm just a noob with inkscape :(.. things are just easier creating for 128px... :)
<ryanprior> macvr: Keep at it! Thanks for the effort. :-)
<macvr> ryanprior: how to draw dots in inkscape?
<macvr> its easier in gimp
<ryanprior> macvr: nah, you just have to think differently
<ryanprior> macvr: small circles with no border is an easy way
<ryanprior> macvr: If you want fuzzy "painted" dots, use a gaussian blur.
<macvr> ryanprior: ok, i thought that small squares are the best! maybe i should try with circles
<ryanprior> macvr: Are you talking about one-pixel-wide dots?
<macvr> s
<ryanprior> macvr: I hate using Inkscape for pixel editing, dunno what other artists use but I wouldn't do it.
<macvr> ryanprior: what do u use ?
<ryanprior> thorwil: What do you use for pixel art?
<thorwil> ryanprior, gimp
<ryanprior> I'd go with that then, macvr.
<thorwil> macvr, if you have to tweak just one pixel in inkscape, use a rectangle
<macvr> thorwil: ok.
<thorwil> macvr, but if you feel the need to do so for an icon larger than 16x16, you are doing something wrong ;)
<macvr> thorwil: but i find gimp easier , does gimp do svgs?
<ryanprior> macvr: I use mtpaint (http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/) but The GIMP has much better plugins, etc.
<macvr> for 16px ,
<thorwil> macvr, gimp can render SVG and import paths from SVG. COuld be it can also save paths to SVG, not sure
<thorwil> macvr, but it is no SVG editor and you can't save te whole image as SVG
<macvr> thorwil: i tried saving as svg , but kept loosing pics!
<macvr> oh!
<thorwil> macvr, raster images in SVG are referenced, not embedded, for all i know
<ryanprior> yes, SVG is xml only
<thorwil> macvr, show me what you are working on
<ryanprior> I personally think there should be a container format allowing for embedding content
<ryanprior> but SVG is not that
<macvr> thorwil: http://imagebin.ca/popup/6g3oDc.html
<macvr> thorwil: thats just a base for the smileys
<macvr> for breathe
<thorwil> macvr, where do you see the need for per-pixel editing there?
<macvr> thorwil: ryanprior suggested using awesome smileys as base with white eyes....  for that
<thorwil> macvr, i assume every size is exactly on its plate and you turned on the grid to place everything exactly on the pixel grid?
<macvr> yup
<thorwil> awesome smilies?
<macvr> thorwil: does that look ok?
<ryanprior> thorwil: the :awesome: smiley. http://www.webwhitenoise.com/media/1/20080619-awesomehuge.jpg
<macvr> thorwil: http://ryanprior.com/awesome_tiny.jpg
<ryanprior> ^ my quick dirty sized-down version
<macvr> ryanprior: u sized it down using which program?
<ryanprior> macvr: imagemagick
<thorwil> macvr, i think a more stylized and straight-on look is more fitting for Breathe
<macvr> ryanprior: ok.
<macvr> thorwil: any comments on the base smiley i have done?
<thorwil> macvr, yes. see on the mailing list ;)
<ryanprior> thorwil: straight-on smileys are soulless. They don't make me smile. :-\
<macvr> thorwil: damn i forgot the eyes!
<macvr> actually wanted to do it for the different emotions ... thought it might be a better place to hint the light
<macvr> thorwil: light from above will it look good?
<macvr> its just a minor adjustment but i 'll try light from above
<thorwil> macvr, light from straight above simplifies shading and shadows and is consistent with Tango and Oxygen. there is a risk that it looks a bit stiff, boring, but lighting has to be consistent across the set
<macvr> thorwil: i'm making the changes ... will show link soon... but personally i think emoticons should be allowed an exception like the folders :)
<macvr> thorwil: http://imagebin.ca/popup/QnSstFVH.html < how is this?
<thorwil> macvr, ok. try to move the shine a bit lower, towards the center
<thorwil> macvr, also, play a bit with the shapes of the eyes to see if you can reduce the jaggedness
<macvr> thorwil: how could the shine be at the centre? then it would become a ball!
<thorwil> macvr, is there a stroke on the eyes, or are the fill-only?
<thorwil> macvr, yeah, shouldn't be at the center, just a little lower than now
<macvr> thorwil: http://imagebin.ca/popup/ZV_1d6CR.html the eyes here have more light...
<macvr> u mean the eye shape of the 128px? or the smaller ones?
<thorwil> macvr, yes, on the big one
<thorwil> a bit too much shine on the eyes on the last
<macvr> then probably i should use a rounded rectangle for that size too
<thorwil> macvr, no
<macvr> will see what i can do.. with an ellipse
<thorwil> macvr, if there's an outline (stroke) around the eyes on the large size, you should try turning it off
<macvr> oh!
<thorwil> or at least make sure it's 1px strong
<thorwil> as lines below 1px will lead to bad rendering
<macvr> thorwil: http://imagebin.ca/popup/Ejx436.html < i think this is better? adjusted the light on the eyes too, brought the top shine down... does it have to be lower?
<macvr> any  other changes need to be made? & i'll stop bugging u !
<thorwil> macvr, no, it's fine!
<macvr> thorwil: shine?
<thorwil> yes
<thorwil> macvr, try less saturation on the bottom
<macvr> the border?
<macvr> thorwil: but then it didnt have the thickness of a button!
<thorwil> yes, what is now a brownish orange
<thorwil> macvr, right above this thick edge, you could add a thin and subtle highlight, running up on the edge to almost middle height
<thorwil> basically a "u" shape
<macvr> ok i get it...
<thorwil> macvr, btw, recommended reading: http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm#light_stuff
<macvr> ^thankx
<macvr> thorwil: http://imagebin.ca/popup/DuP3lP5b.html ... how is this?
<thorwil> macvr, good
<macvr> ok... thanx a lot... i'll add that to the submissions :)
<thorwil> np
<macvr> thorwil: http://imagebin.ca/popup/LXjam3Ls.html ...this is the latest edit of the fav emblem
<macvr> thorwil: actually i forgot to mention yday, this one is actually symmetrical but, i realized that it is more like the startrek ^ symbol!
<thorwil> interesting. i keep wondering if the edges of the star shouldn't line up
 * thorwil -> supper, bbl
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-07
<ZachK_> hallo?
<thorwil> awesome. this is the third release where i get sticky tooltips on the workspace switcher, sometimes
<knome> hah
<Cimi> so tired
<kwwii> Cimi: out late last night?
<sammi> hi, are there any old fashion artists here?
<sammi> im trying to draw scenes but, unfortunately, the real world cant be put on pause to notice all of the details...
<thorwil> sammi: hi! with old fashion, you mean "knows how to use a pencil"?
<sammi> throwil, yes. thats what i meant
<thorwil> sammi: i have some experience with life drawing, but often work with either photos or no reference at all
<sammi> ah, ya,  i have basically concluded that i need to get a digital camera
<thorwil> sammi: a camera produces something that is quite different from what you see, once you look closely
<thorwil> sammi: what are you trying to draw and why?
<thorwil> the "why" can make a difference regarding acceptable shortcuts
<sammi> i understand. i like drawing animals mostly
<thorwil> sammi: if your problem is that they won't hold still or if you actually want to draw them in movement, you might have to work on your technique to enable you to draw fast and capture the important stuff with few strokes
<thorwil> you would do sketches "life" and later on refine the best of them or base a new drawing on them
<sammi> ya, thats what i did in drawing class, like 1-5 minutes figure drawings
<thorwil> so you should have plentiful of cheap paper to not worry about wasting it
<sammi> i think im gonna start carrying arround a sketch pad again
<sammi> lol yep
<thorwil> irc can't compete with an actual drawing class :)
<thorwil> i guess you have been shown how to construct bodies from simple geometry?
<sammi> nope, not really. he was an anti-line nazi, lol
<sammi> contour lines i mean
<sammi> taught us to build shapes by mostly shading.
<thorwil> that's painting, not drawing, then, isn't it?
<sammi> lol kinda
<thorwil> sammi: explore both approaches
<sammi> ya
<sammi> bah, pandora keeps freezing on me and i have to restart firefox
<thorwil> even among artists working in the digital realm, you can find both approaches
<sammi> dont digital artists begin on paper? most i mean
<thorwil> many tend to start with sketches/outlines on paper
<thorwil> a few sketch digital or paint digital from the get go
<sammi> i tried the latter before, it as a disaster. looked like a preshchool drawing, lol
<thorwil> i don't recommend it, especially if you lack training with the real thing. although it can make building large/complex scenes quite a bit easier
<thorwil> sammi: do you have examples of your work online?
<sammi> nope
<sammi> im not a beginner, but not a professional.
<thorwil> sammi: ah, then i guess i don't have to ask if you can construct perspectives with 1, 2 or 3 vanishing points :)
<sammi> depends how complex the secne is, lol
<thorwil> the people who make me feel inferior: http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=137
<sammi> hehe. ya they are incredible. i wish i had the patience to do something like that. i get bored after 3 hrs or that unless i really love it.
<Cimi> kwwii: no no... I'm too old instead
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-08
<Beyecixramd> any Plymouth themers here? i need some help with a theme
<Beyecixramd> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdleov_plymouth-lhlinux_tech
<Beyecixramd> i need a slower throbber
<zniavre> good morning
<zniavre> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/187396/screenshot1.png > somebody understand what is happening here ? (why the border is different)
<vish> zniavre: it was a murrine bug , iirc it is due to the option : glazestyle
<vish> zniavre: try changing the option, for that and see if it changes
<vish> zniavre: it happens when buttons are slightly taller than the width
<kwwii> that bug is fixed in the latest code, iirc
<zniavre> ho ok thank you
<zniavre> i will try after lunch
<knome> "ho ok" ?
<knome> not very nice :T
<zniavre> im sorry my english is short ....
<knome> heh np :P
<knome> just wearing smarty pants
<zniavre> i do :o)
<zniavre> vish ho yes it works
<knome> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ho â definition #2 :P
<zniavre> i thought i had the lastest GIT code
<zniavre> knome,  o_O
<knome> yup.
<zniavre> anyway vish kwwii  thank you it's solved
<Cimi> another reason to fork :)
<kwwii> hehe
<Cimi> ivanka: kwwii I'm ready for the call
 * thorwil dreams up a conspiracy theory around "the call"
 * thorwil adds more raptors for good measure
<kwwii> Cimi: hey
<zentili> here too
<zentili> no one is alive
<zentili> of course
<knome> yes
<knome> we're all dead
<knome> no need coming back
<zentili> that's why i love irc
<knome> we're still all dead
<knome> ;)
<zentili> people use it to take it opened for days
<zentili> but never watching at it
<zentili> btw, i'm looking for someone who knows the eog stock items names
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-09
<cjohnston> kwwii: ping
<kwwii> cjohnston: pong
<cjohnston> kwwii: are you still around?
<knome> probably not :)
<kwwii> hi
<knome> oooh
<kwwii> cjohnston: pong
<cjohnston> kwwii: I am working on redoing the community page on the ubuntu website for Jono.. (http://ubuntu.com/community)... We are wanting to put in more detailed info about getting involved with the different areas of the ubuntu community... artwork being one.. I am looking for someone to write some info following a structure provided by Jono for us to use about artwork.. Would you be able to do it? You can see more info
<kwwii> cjohnston: I guess I would be the right person to take care of that
<cjohnston> Is that something you could do in the next couple of days?
<kwwii> cjohnston: can you send me an email with any details?
<kwwii> cjohnston: yes, I am about to board a train for 4 hours ;-)
<cjohnston> Sure...
<cjohnston> oh fun..
<cjohnston> kwwii@u.c or something else?
<kwwii> that will work fine
<cjohnston> I will work on sending it now.. Thanks!
<kwwii> np, glad to help
<thorwil> i have a single panel on the top, including window buttons. after a few days, the min/max wm buttons pointing down and up still throw me off :}
<vish> pretty awesome stuff http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-deus-ex/100909 !
<thorwil> vish: looks like it owes quite a bit to GITS
<vish> thorwil: storyline maybe. but the graphics are un-freaking-believable!
<thorwil> ah, the theme thread on the ayatana list is a great opportunity to reach new levels of uselessness ^^
<vish> thorwil: heh , i was wondering when Dani would mention that on ayatana ;p
<vish> thorwil: he had mailed me once saying there is no discussion on artwork about the themes!
<vish> the default ones
<thorwil> vish: i could create a long lists of issues with the theme, but with unclear goals/objectives and often no clue what is and isn't as intended or what is caused by technical issues ...
<thorwil> vish: instead we get to see another "it's bad" vs "no, your wrong, can't you see it's good!"
<vish> thorwil: any opinions are just subjective/personal and not really useful atm
<vish> thorwil: having an engine and just tweaking colors are calling one theme more Usable is really silly. I'm not sure why he says elementary is more usable. though I use it ;p
<vish>  colors and*
<thorwil> vish: well, the default selection colors in Ambiance don't allow one to distinguish between focused or not easily. the dark buttons reduce contrast quite a bit
<thorwil> selected items in side panels look too much like buttons
<thorwil> vish: so there's a lot happening with just tweaking colors ;)
<vish> ha , that is a bug. no sure that is USABILITY ;p
<thorwil> vish: like i said, how would i know what is and isn't intentional? it's not like anyway would talk to me about that
<vish> :)
<vish> we really need a murrine fork... new ideas. new design. new style
<vish> thorwil: his earlier mail was funnier when he tried to make the ubuntu-mono icons use tango palette ;p
<thorwil> vish: wow. only proposing that tango switches to the mono palette could beat that
<vish> hehe .
<vish> thorwil: was there any research about the tango palette , for "Usability" ?
<vish> i mean was the palette chosen for usability or for consistency
<thorwil> vish: i think it was designed to step on no one's feet. rumor has it color vision impaired designers were involved
<vish> thorwil: yeah , when Dani had sent the earlier mail about the tango palette, he mentioned that. and i was wonderinf why nothing about the "research" is ever mentioned on the site. and i had not heard of it being researched either
<thorwil> vish: i don't know where that idea comes from. from what i know, at the beginning, it was all about having a style and palette that would allow the icons to blend in on windows, mac and linux (or should i say gnome?) ...
<thorwil> cue troy complaining about how trying to work in any context leads to never being great
<thorwil> good night! :)
<vish> yeah , seems sometimes Dani gets confused ;p  like saying that the elementary theme "they take years to improve this theme" , the theme hasnt even been there for 8months ;p and equinox is even shoprter
<vish> thorwil: nite!
<amanthethy> @Kwwii: If you weren't aware as yet, the first link in the topic doesn't exist (wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/VisualIdentity
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-10
<vish> thorwil: did you see this^
<vish> oh you werent logged in
<vish>  <amanthethy> @Kwwii: If you weren't aware as yet, the first link in the topic doesn't exist (wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/VisualIdentity
<vish> thorwil: where has that page gone?
<thorwil> vish: just wanted to say, not polite to have a "did you see this^" pint at ivanka ;)
<ivanka> hey vish, thorwil, what am I missing?
<vish> hehe ;p ,   i have the log/part disabled
<vish> ivanka:   <amanthethy> @Kwwii: If you weren't aware as yet, the first link in the topic doesn't exist wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/VisualIdentity
<vish> : http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/VisualIdentity
<thorwil> ivanka: vish pointed upward to something not on my log, but your join message was right above
<ivanka> thorwil: ah - I am waiting for kwwii to arrive at Linux Tag so we will take a look.
<thorwil> kwwii deleted that page with the comment: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official is updated so this page is no longer needed
<ivanka> kwwii: is always on it :-)
<vish> yeah , the topic needs updating then :)
<vish> ivanka: hmm , we need to set up the milestones for papercuts. we havent launched it yet
<thorwil> vish: in case you are not aware, if a page doesn't "exist" anymore, you can use the Info link to get to previous version or to just check the comments
<vish> thorwil: ah , never knew info can be used there , good to know
<ivanka> vish: I will hassle thedoctor - let's get him to exercise his project management skills!
<vish> neat!
<thorwil> vish: it's part of the amazing user experience of the wiki, that a deleted page doesn't appear obviously different from one that never existed :)
<thorwil> doctor who? :)
<vish> thorwil: ian
<vish> thorwil: ha the "?" made me think you were asking ;p
<thorwil> what a strange interpretation of that symbol!!
<vish> thorwil: oh you were asking! there I was thinking you made a reference to Doctor Who ;p  > http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho
<thorwil> lol
<thorwil> vish: i did. and i asked!
<thorwil> for real
<vish> thorwil: ;p
<ivanka> ah iainfarrell - we were just talking about you
<ivanka> iainfarrell: though I called you thedoctor and that confused vish
<iainfarrell> ivanka: hi
<iainfarrell> sorry, tube issues this AM
<iainfarrell> what's happening?
<ivanka> iainfarrell: when might you be able to cast your project manager eye on the milestones for papercuts?
<vish> iainfarrell: i have already mentioned this to david, he was a bit busy a couple of days ago.
<iainfarrell> ivanka and vish - I was planning to meet with David this week but he's been a combination of busy and sick
<iainfarrell> however, vish, I could have a look with you if that works?
<vish> yeah and he wasnt sure he'd be free this week :s
<vish> iainfarrell: sure,
<iainfarrell> we're working to a very tight deadline
<iainfarrell> this week
<vish> iainfarrell: yeah , if we launch this week , we can have ~10 weeks for papercuts
<iainfarrell> but I could have a look later this afternoon
<iainfarrell> ahh I see
<iainfarrell> well we'd better get cracking then :)
<iainfarrell> let just check there are no burning fires in my inboc
<iainfarrell> inbox even
<iainfarrell> what time is it with you?
<vish> 2:00 om
<vish> pm*
<iainfarrell> ok
<iainfarrell> so can we chat at 3?
<vish> sure
<iainfarrell> groovy
<iainfarrell> will ping you in a bit
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-11
<zniavre> good afternoon
<zniavre> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/187396/rgba.png encore un petit bug des tableaux de bords mais c'est disponible (menus rond c'est sympas)
<zniavre> sorry it was not for this channel
<thorwil> pas de problÃ¨me
<zniavre> merci    :o)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-12
<wers> i want to quickly test gtkrc changes. what I usually do is to save the gtkrc then fire up a new thewidgetfactory. any better and faster way to do this?
<thorwil> amazing. http://fluffy.jussi01.com/wp-uploads/2010/06/fluffy_desktop.png
<zniavre> :o)
<thorwil> kwwii: the thumbnails on http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ need frames. the first one actually needs ... content!? ;)
<rafaelement> I have made a mockup of nautilus and finery.look at it and tell me what you think pls.
<rafaelement> http://imagebin.ca/view/KhZ_uol9.html
<rafaelement> Hey People, another version of my Nautilus Mockup.pls tell me what you think and feel free to ask for the image if you want to do something with it.
<rafaelement> http://imagebin.ca/view/yLQkBuw.html
<rafaelement> By Image I mean the actual file btw.
<thorwil> rafaelement: i don't think having the canvas blend in with sidebar and toolbar is a good idea. there should be a clearer separation between scrolled area and all the static parts
<vish> !test
<ubot2> hrm?
<thorwil> rafaelement: note that a few people over at #gnome-design (and #gnome-art) on gimpnet are working on a detailed redesign
<rafaelement> thorwil:oh i didnt know that.i ll look about it.
<rafaelement> thorwil:the blending imo just looks good,and edges/black lines dont.so maybe just a borderless color difference might work.
<rafaelement> #gnome-design
<rafaelement> oups,sorry
<thorwil> rafaelement: note Gimpnet, not freenet. the man to talk with would be garret, but yesterday he said goodbye for the weekend
<thorwil> rafaelement: his starting point was http://linuxart.com/log/archives/2009/07/24/nautilus-streamlined/
<rafaelement> thanks a lot.
<thorwil> np
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-13
<coz_> hey guys
<cypha> hey, anyone that can help me with a logo?
<cypha> i'd paypal my gratitude as well
<thorwil> cypha: you have my attention :)
<cypha> :)
<cypha> cool
<cypha> may I pm?
<thorwil> sure, preferable, even
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-06
<tiago> hello
<tiago> anyone here?
<darkmatter> hiya coz_
<coz_> darkmatter,  hey guy
<darkmatter> I get to have fun today. rebuilding my desktop. died on saturday :/
<coz_> darkmatter,  ooo.. that's always a pain
<darkmatter> psu blew a really big cap. I hope thats all that blew
<coz_> darkmatter,  a cap on what? motherboard?   video?
<darkmatter> psu. motherboard et al _looks_ ok. will find out after I toss in the new parts and see if it boots.
<darkmatter> had A POWER SURGE EARLIER THAT DAY. SOME DUMMY TOOK OUT ONE OF THE TRANSMISSON MAINS
<darkmatter> oops. caps
<darkmatter> I hate lappy keyboards
<coz_> darkmatter,  ooo   ,, so you are replacing the cap or the motherboard?
<darkmatter> coz_: I said mobo looks ok ;)
<darkmatter> just tossing in my old psu. will fix the cap once I can afford to
<coz_> oh sorry
<coz_> darkmatter,  my mind is elsewhere today
<darkmatter> may as well hook up the router. change the bios battery, and try to get my earth shattering subwoofer going while I'm at it
<coz_> :)
<darkmatter> coz_: no problems. my mind is all over the place today as well.
<darkmatter> that psu was runnng for 5 years straigh anyway. lol
<darkmatter> was bound to go sooner or later.
<coz_> darkmatter,  yeah that usually goes before  hard drives
<darkmatter> I just hate when these things hapen though. aggravating as H.E.-double-hockey-sticks :P
<coz_> darkmatter,  for sure,,  I had 3 psu's  go a few months ago within days of eachother
<coz_> nature is calling be right back
<darkmatter> I _hope_ the ss drivers for fedora work properly with this lappy when I dual boot it. it needs gamma correction under nix. can't do that with vesa :/
<darkmatter> sis*
<darkmatter> freaking SiS M760GX chpset. bane of the living
<darkmatter> haha
<coz_> darkmatter,  does sis even have a decent driver that will work with gnome3??
<darkmatter> coz_: no. not on linux. they don't release the 3d drivers for nix excet to OEM. I can get basic 3d/compositing (even on vesa), but I need the sis drivers for displlay setting. fedora and ubuntu have them, thankfully. but I'd rather go fedora first
<coz_> oh ok
<darkmatter> the open source drivers for it _may_ run shell. but thats not my concern. fallback mode is fine. I just want colour correctness like in winders'
<coz_> ohhh
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-07
<Bacta> Hai all!
<marcushaslam> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-08
<bil> hey guyz
<bil> hello?
<bil> anybody home??
<darkmatter> hiya coz_ :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  hey guy
<darkmatter> coz_: http://www.microsoftaddict.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/12/files/2011/06/win8_start_web.jpg
<coz_> darkmatter,  what's that?
<darkmatter> windows 8
<coz_> oh
<coz_> darkmatter,  it has an appliance interface?
<darkmatter> the tablet/netbook/lappy ui
<coz_> darkmatter,         oh boy,, looks like it is across platforms now
<darkmatter> lol. yeah
<darkmatter> coz_: my backup psu no wrky. underpowered :(
<darkmatter> gotta get a new one next month
<coz_> darkmatter,  oh man,, yeah,, I usually have a few laying around from clients who give me their old systems.. not all work or even powerful enough but I can piggy back them sometimes
<darkmatter> coz_: video of "mosh" in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itaOL_jSO-M&feature=player_embedded
<darkmatter> actually looks awesome
<coz_> darkmatter,  yeah, but I still like list driven menus,, I do not like appliance interfaces
<coz_> darkmatter,  although,,this looks better designed
<darkmatter> coz_: yes. perfect for compact systems. I'd run that on a laptop in a heartbeat
<coz_> darkmatter,  and it seems they did not put all of their eggs into the same basket , they still have desktop interface
<darkmatter> coz_: yes. they gave you a choice of which to run, plus you can run the desktop within the tile interface
<darkmatter> which is cool
<coz_> darkmatter,  which makes microsoft having a far superior,, design team :(
<darkmatter> yesh
<coz_> darkmatter,  which is a bit depressing considering the talent on this channel alone,, gnome,, canonical,, they have failed at design consitently
<coz_> particularly gnome,,, of course they wont use 2 i nterfaces,, "too much work upkeeping classic and gnome3"  I am sure they would say that
<darkmatter> yes :(
<darkmatter> coz_: yes for failing consistently. but aS A PLUS, GNOME STILL HAS CLASSIVC
<darkmatter> they call it fallback
<coz_> darkmatter,  oh!   I thought that was out the window?
<darkmatter> my internet is evil and flaky today
<darkmatter> coz_: nope. open system setting > system info > graphics > forced fallback mode
<coz_> darkmatter,  mmm   I may try that to see how compiz runs on it
<darkmatter> it's same as gnome 2, but without the system menu. clock top center, and has the user menu fr settings/session
<coz_> mmm
<coz_> darkmatter,  ok then I will back off ,,"slightly"  from condeming the gnome developers :)
<darkmatter> coz_: http://www.neowin.net/forum/uploads/monthly_05_2011/post-1302-0-84018800-1306241102.png
<coz_> ah!!!
<coz_> darkmatter,  that looks nice :(
<darkmatter> and it works flawlessly with compiz. *plus* metacity is a functional compositor now
<coz_> darkmatter,  excellent !! :)  I am a bit happier today now :)
<coz_> ah I have to break ,, be back later
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-09
<coz_> anyone remember the gnome3 project for ubuntu mentioned here about a week ago?
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-10
<vish> coz_: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntugnometeam
<vish>  <coz_> anyone remember the gnome3 project for ubuntu mentioned here about a week ago?
<coz_> vish,  yeah that was one but there was another fellow who is creating a revision that is not from ppa  but an ubuntu with gnome3 preinstalled
<vish> oh.. maybe i missed it.. :)
<coz_> vish,  its no biggie.. i tried fedora 15  with gnome3  and it was nice and just found compiz can run fine on the fallback mode
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-12
<Islington> rejoice for krita can now open psds apparently:http://siddharthkde.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/hack-the-planet-gsoc-2011-krita-import-and-export-of-adobe-psd-file-in-krita-2/
<palhmbs> I'm trying to figure out how to install a wacom tablet
<palhmbs> but I can't find the xorg.conf in /etc/X11 -
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-06-09
<smjms> does anyone know why ttfautohint makes the fonts look so good on Windows/DirectWrite, even though it's based on FreeType's auto-hinter and FreeType autohinting on Linux doesn't look as crisp and clear as on Windows?
