#ubuntu-mobile 2007-12-03
<dholbach> good morning
<lool> asac: So I'm looking at dropping the nss/nspr deps when moz's version is >= 1.8 in tinymail; checking for existing usage, it seems nss / nspr is used in "libtinymail-camel" conditionally; it looks like the API is used directly
<lool> asac: If HAVE_NSS is set, some structures get PRFileDesc members or things like this
<lool> asac: I don't quite see how this should be pulled over xpcom; do you think this is improper use?
<lool> asac: Hmm nevermind, I see nspr.h is in /usr/include/xulrunner-1.9b1/unstable/nspr.h
<lool> asac: Still not sure this should be enabled or not
<lool> asac: Argh, and MOZILLA_HOME isn't found; I don't see it in libxul-embedding-1.9.pc (tinymail uses libdir, but I see no alternative to that in the .pc either)
<asac> lool: we will eventually migrate to use system nspr/nss
<lool> asac: Ok, it's quite easy with the AC_ARG_WITH() flags I added
<asac> lool: you should test for either mozilla-nspr-1.9 or nspr
<asac> -1.9 will be dropped soon too
<asac> (the versioning)
<asac> lool: how do they use MOZILLA_HOME?
<lool> asac: for gtk_moz_embed_set_path()
<lool> Which seems related to libxul-embedding to me
<lool> asac: It seems to build without nspr/nss .pc files (unless it's dragged by libxul-embedding-1.9's requires or something)
<asac> lool: gtk_moz_embed_set_path is done in glue initialization code now ... so no need for MOZILLA_HOME for you
<lool> asac: Cool, thanks
<lool> widgets/.libs/libmodest-widgets.a(modest-mozembed-msg-view.o): In function `set_message':
<lool> /home/lool/scratch/modest/modest-1.0/src/widgets/modest-mozembed-msg-view.cpp:673: undefined reference to `modest_tny_msg_find_body_part(_TnyMsg*, int)'
<lool> Cool, I think I get the errors StevenK was getting now
<asac> :)
<StevenK> That'd be them
<StevenK> Any help gratefully received
<lool> StevenK: It's a circular dep between src/ and src/widgets I'm afraid
<asac> lool: so is the nss/nspr issue mentioned in mail now resolved?
<lool> src/widgets/modest-mozembed-msg-view.cpp uses modest_tny_msg_find_body_part() which is in src/modest-tny-msg.c and src/Makefile.am asks to link modest against widgets/libmodest-widgets.la
<lool> asac: Well theoritically I don't use nss/nspr modules as I pass --with-mozilla-nss-pc=no, but technically there are many refs to nss/nspr and I didn't review them al
<lool> all
<lool> asac: It looks like some extensive work to properly review and cleanup the whole tree to me  :-/
<lool> Eh modest is Copyright (c) 2006, Nokia Corporation
<asac> lool: you can use nspr
<asac> and nss
<lool> asac: You think I should if it builds withoutN
<lool> ?
<asac> right ... its better to not do that, but if its needed it should be possible :)
<lool> asac: Sure; for now it seems it builds without, it's trivial to add the b-deps and pass the proper --with if necessary
<lool> StevenK: dpatch updated for tinymail BTW (pub/~lool)
<lool> err p.u.c/~lool
<lool> StevenK: So looking at it, it's no fun: 32 widgets sources, not an option to move, src/modest-tny-msg.c depends on -folder and -text-utils which probably depend on other stuff => might be movable, and modest itself is clearly not movable
<Mithrandir> StevenK: about helix, do you think there is any development work we need to do about it, or is it just getting the integration working?
<Mithrandir> StevenK: I'm trying to make up my mind wrt minispecs/a full spec for it.
<StevenK> lool: Don't bother with moving, I just want it to compile.
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Um. If I could remember the mail that said what needed to be done for helix
<lool> StevenK: Moving is usually the long term way to fix circular deps across automake dirs AFAIK
<lool> Blah SVN modest needs SVN libwp
<StevenK> Right
<StevenK> lool: I saw your mail about tinymail, let's see what Philip says
<lool> StevenK: Can you confirm where the libwpeditor SVN is?
<lool> ATM I'm guessing in garage along modest
<StevenK> https://garage.maemo.org/svn/modest/libwpeditor-plus/trunk
<lool> Ok, that's what I found as well, thanks
<lool> wp_text_buffer_replace_image isn't even in libwp SVN, sigh
<lool> And source is missing at repository.maemo.org, cool
<StevenK> Right. I commented that bit out
<lool> I'll write the Nokia guy who wrote the change that he didn't update libwp
<agoliveira> lool, StevenK, welcome to the wonderfull world of maemo repos hell :)
<StevenK> Haha
<lool> agoliveira: Hehe
<asac> lool: i think mozilla_xpcom_includetype needs to be empty when $mozilla_xpcom version is < 1.9
<asac> lool: what about the GLUE patch?
<lool> asac: That one I wanted to think more about it and rework, it's a bit ugly ATM
<lool> asac: You mean the one in configure.ac, right?
<lool> asac: I'd like the flags to be pulled cleanly   :-/
<asac> no the one in code ... mozembed_init 
<asac> or something like that
<asac> but the one in configure.ac needs to be fixed as well
<asac> #ifdef XPCOM_GLUE should be clean enough imo
<lool> asac: Oh yeah, also a separate fix, but didn't send it yet indeed
<asac> ah ok
<lool> asac: You want to send it?
<lool> I didn't have to change it in anyway since your version
<lool> haha the Nokia guy is running gutsy :)
<lool> He commits his debian/changelog with +modest (1.0-maemo21) gutsy; urgency=low
<asac> makes sense to use gutsy ;)
<Mithrandir> Jan-Dirk or somebody else?
<lool> Yeah, this guy
<StevenK> Right
<lool> Another mail sent for the second error
<lool> modest-mozembed-msg-view.c:49:40: error: widgets/modest-scroll-area.h: No such file or directory
<lool> And then modest-mozembed-msg-view.c:373: warning: implicit declaration of function 'modest_scroll_area_new'
<asac> lool: imo the trunk branch is broken
<lool> and obvious failure after that
<asac> i ran into the same issues
<asac> but could build with gnomeui
<lool> asac: You had to build tinymail with gnome-desktop stuff though, right?
<lool> It really looks like modest is in constant flux and quite rough in SVN
<asac> hmm ... no idea ... the gnomeui was just a joke :) ... no functionality, mostly dialogs saying "Hello" opened when activating some menu/button
<lool> asac: ah :-(
<asac> why do you want trunk=
<asac> ?
<lool> In file included from ../../src/widgets/modest-mozembed-mime-part-view.h:40, from modest-mozembed-msg-view.c:48:
<lool> /usr/include/libtinymailui-mozembed-1.0/tny-moz-embed-html-mime-part-view.h:28:25: error: gtkmozembed.h: No such file or directory
<lool> asac: Why search for bugs which might be fixed in trunk or for which the fixes might not apply to trunk?
<lool> I usually try reproducing stuff with trunk/head, if I do I fix it there, then backport downstream
<lool> Pff the -I flags when building tinymail take two xterm screens, it's ridiculous
<StevenK> I think half of our problems with modest are because of xul embedding requiring that evil evil hack of .c -> .cpp
<lool> asac: Ah, I have an issue for you here
<lool> MODEST_MOZEMBED_CFLAGS ends up with -I/usr/include/xulrunner-1.9b1/stable
<lool> It should be unstable
<lool> So I guess libtinymail should be setting includetype?
<lool> The thing is that pkg-config var are in a common namespace, so it's a bit ugly to set includetype in tinymail's .pc
<asac> yes 
<asac> he?
<lool> Would it make sense to rename includetype to libxul-embedding-includetype?
<asac> lool: that would need to be done upstream
<lool> asac: That's what I was suggesting :)
<lool> asac: Unlikely to ever happen?
<asac> well ... i will ask :)
<lool> It's a concrete example: a lib exposing it's gtkmozembed implementation needs to set this var
<lool> asac: Cool, thanks :)
<asac> but he isn't awake yet ... so later
<lool> I need to get some food before 2pm &
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: I'm pondering renaming mobile-applications to mobile-core-applications and make mobile-applications the full set of apps from the SoW, using the minispec idea.  Thoughts on that?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I guess it's ok.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: and actually makes sense if we want to consider the whole lot of applications.
<lool> Mithrandir: Do you know whether a .pc can define vars to be used in another one?
<Mithrandir> lool: I don't believe that is supported, no.
<lool> Mithrandir: Like libtinymailui-mozembed-1.0 would set includetype=unstable so that the require would use it
<lool> Mithrandir: Ok, thanks
<Mithrandir> ship two .pc files.
<lool> Mithrandir: Exactly what I was about to write to asac  :)
<lool> asac: ^
<lool> asac: Would be nice to have libxul-embedding-unstable and libxul-unstable
<lool> asac: Because I can't set the var in libtinymailui-mozembed-1.0, I tried it's not honoured
<Mithrandir> to me, it looks like the mozilla people are trying to bend pkg-config to do something it's not designed to do (and which it isn't easily extended to do)
<lool> Mithrandir: Eh, it's Mozilla!   :-P
<asac> pkg-config can do it ... the macros can't though :) ... which doesn't make much a difference
<asac> ... i will ask if they accept a patch for -unstable :)
<asac> oh ... misread. nm
<asac> lool: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/255146 ... appears to use unstable 
<lool> asac: Yes, but not if I put it in libtinymailui-mozembed-1.0.pc
<lool> asac: But it's of course fine if I set it on the command line
<asac> what do you mean? i run pkg-config on libtinymailui-mozembed-1.0 in that paste
<lool> asac: It's just unpractical to change all PKG_CHECK_MODULES() in other packages into $PKG_CONFIG calls
<asac> ah
<asac> ok
<lool> It kind of defeats the pkg-config concept :-/
<asac> well but why is it inherited when using --define-variable ... but not if you define the variable in the .pc file itself?
<asac> sounds like a bug as well
<Mithrandir> if anything, it should be something like Requires: libxul-embedding-1.9 [includetype=unstable] in the .pc file
<Mithrandir> asac: no, that's not a bug.  There's nothing which implies that a .pc has a way of reaching out of its own scope.
<asac> yes right. bad thought :)
<lool> Ok, passed one more failure in modest SVN, now at modest-mozembed-msg-view.c:385: warning: implicit declaration of function 'gtk_widget_tap_and_hold_setup'
<asac> lool: its a #define gtk_widget_tap_and_hold_setup(a,b,c,d)
<asac> and might be excluded because of #ifndef MODEST_HAVE_HILDON_GTK
 * asac  out for lunch
<Mithrandir> lool: that one we need to patch around, since we don't have tap-and-hold yet.
<lool> Mithrandir: Yup, i'm adding an ac_check_decl in modest
<lool> asac: good lunch
<lool> asac: I think I prefer changing their #ifdef maemo_chages which is set for some reason to a more specific check
<lool> Cool, fails to link now
<StevenK> Damn modest
<lool> Hmm if a C file calls gtk_moz_embed_find_text(), I do need to link to -lxul, no?
<asac> lool: no
<asac> lool: well ... i can't tell for sure, epiphany, devhelp, yelp ... all use typeaheadfind not the mozembed function
<asac> but i would guess that its provided by gtkmozembed_glue.cpp
<lool> smagoun: Heya, around?
<lool> smagoun: I read about your freetype1 changes, but couldn't see the difference between your package in the ppa and the one in hardy (apart of the build-conflicts); is this fixed in hardy?
<smagoun> lool: hi
<smagoun> lool: I think it's fixed in hardy, yup.
<StevenK> smagoun: You told me it was
<smagoun> I didn't see any sign of a fix for gutsy, even though it was clearly broken - hence the upload to the PPA
<smagoun> StevenK: The bug (let me find it...) mentioned a Hardy fix
<lool> smagoun: Ok, everything is fine then
<lool> smagoun: I just wanted to make sure that it was fixed in hardy, I couldn't see any difference between hardy and ppa build-deps, so it's fine
<smagoun> Here's the bug: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/freetype1/+bug/135663
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135663 in acton "FTBFS: wrong build-dependency on libkpathsea4-dev" [Undecided,Fix committed] 
<StevenK> Ah yes, I remember that one
<StevenK> Anyway, I'm going to bed, since it's 2:20
<smagoun> StevenK: 'night
<StevenK> Night
<smagoun> Is there a way to see all packages that failed to build for gutsy/LPIA? We've run into this problem a couple times now.
<smagoun> It'd be nice to know what else is broken
<StevenK> launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/lpia/+builds
<smagoun> 485 build failures. Hmm.
<StevenK> Enjoy :-P
<smagoun> Presumably some were superseded by working builds?
<StevenK> Right
<smagoun> ugh
<StevenK> Hence the enjoy. :-P
<StevenK> Anyway, night 
<lool> smagoun: Better to fix them when you need to  ;)
<lool> smagoun: Ok, thanks for the bug id
<smagoun> lool: The problem is that we don't even know what's broken/out-of-date!
<smagoun> grep -v kde isn't a valid input to the package filter on that page....bummer
<lool> smagoun: Ah you want to compare the lpia versions with the i386 versions?
<smagoun> lool: yeah
<lool> smagoun: You can script that over the Packages file easily
<lool> grep-dctrl provides tools to extract any field you like out of the files, but even awk should be enough I guess
<smagoun> no kidding. I'll have to take a look, I didn't know about grep-dctrl
 * smagoun is allergic to awk
<smagoun> Thanks!
<lool> Try perl!
<smagoun> :)
<lool> Actually sort / uniq would be enough :)
<lool> asac: Do I understand correctly that it should be libtinymailui-mozembed-1.0 which should #include gtkmozembed_glue.cpp?
<lool> Hmm no that's currently fine
<lool> asac: If I #include <gtkmozembed_glue.cpp> just before gtkmozembed.h, just like in the yelp example in the wiki, I get a /usr/include/xulrunner-1.9b1/unstable/nscore.h:117:1: error: "NS_HIDDEN" redefined
<lool> Oh it's actually a problem with gtkmozembed_glue.cpp alone, the two includes are from gtkmozembed_glue.cpp
<asac> lool: you have to compile with g++ ... are you doing that?
<asac> lool: otherwise you have wrong CFLAGS
<lool> asac: Ah no
<lool> asac: Is there a solution to build with gcc?
<asac> (repeated: in the end the zooming should encapsulated in libtinymailui-mozembed)
<lool> asac: Or do you have pointers to build with g++?
<asac> lool: just rename the file extension of the .c file that now includes the .cpp file to 
<lool> asac: I don't understand your last sentence
<asac> .cpp
<lool> "repeated: ..." => what do you mean?
<asac> lool: libtinymailui-mozembed implements the whole gecko business :)
<asac> now modest people hacked because they wanted zoom 
<lool> Oh you mean modest should do gecko directly?
<asac> no ... it shouldn't ... but it currently does :)
<lool> Ok
<lool> asac: Hmm I renamed the .c file including tny-moz-embed to .cpp, finally got g++ to build it, but it fails in the same way
<lool> Ah, it's not the same file I think, sorry
<lool> asac: I'm giving up, can I hand you the ball?
<asac> whats happening now?
<lool> Same thing
<lool> Except I'm building with g++
<asac> is -DXPCOM_GLUE defined?
<lool> It is
<asac> lool: did you include the _glue.cpp in two files?
<lool> I'll copy the last lines of build to you
<lool> asac: I did
<asac> lool: that won't work
<asac> lool: just once
<asac> it just exists to make the symbols available during linking
<lool> http://paste.debian.net/44079
<lool> asac: Ah
<asac> gtkmozembed.h is enough for just the headers
<lool> asac: Looks better; *sigh* thanks a lot
<lool> asac: How shoud I pick the file where to include the cpp?
<asac> lool: usually the right place is to do it wherever the previous code intiialized gecko
<lool> asac: And am I supposed to rename all files including mozembed to cpp?
<asac> e.g. gtk_moz_embed_set_path
<lool> Should I protect with ifdef XPCOM_GLUE?
<asac> yes
<lool> Am I supposed to rename all files including mozembed.h to .cpp?
<asac> no ... I think just the file with the _glue.cpp
<asac> lool: anyway, if you want to hand it over, just open a xulrunner 1.9 bug to track this. and tell me the svn branch, the build-depends and the configure flags of modest and tinymail + whatever patches you already have :)
<lool> Ok, I will
<lool> asac: If I don't rename the other file, I get the error
<lool> Ah no wait, automake needs a distclean again grrr
<lool> autotools have been very painful when switching a file with the same name from C to CPP
<asac> yes :) ... run sh autogen.sh
<lool> It's not enough, I have to cleanup some dependency files manually
<lool> (To properly cleanup, I'd have to distclean before renaming)
<asac> oh right .. if you forgot to clean before you run into issues
<asac> lool: if you ask for help on xul 1.9 could you at least try if the modest trunk really works fine with 1.8?
<lool> asac: Ok
<asac> i just fear to work against something that doesn't work at all
<lool> asac: http://paste.debian.net/44080
<lool> XPCOM_GLUE is defined; this only cpp fiel is where the init is supposed to happen, and it produces this despite the mozembed.cpp include
<asac> lool: isn't that just a warning?
<lool> asac: It is, shall I ignore that?
<asac> yes
<asac> thats fine
<lool> Wow, I've been fighting such warnings most of this afternoon thinking these were the issue
<asac> (well fine is something else, but i never had issues because of that)
<asac> oh sorry ... i thought the paste before was an error:
<lool> asac: It was, but I also got warnings oh well
<lool> Wouah SVN built after the last error I fixed before dinner
<lool> StevenK: So, SVN builds for me now \o/
<lool> StevenK: The circular dep must have been temporary and fixed upstream (would not be surprizing); I'm sending my patches upstream and I shall prepare an updated snapshot tomorrow, with the fixes
<lool> StevenK: How could I easily extract your changes to reapply them to the snapshot as to not lose any of them?
<lool> asac: Thanks for your help BTW, I think I was losing patience at the end of the day with the many Mozilla issues which are really me learning how to use their stuff properly
<lool> Wow, serious bug we have since a long while: Variable 'datarootdir' not defined in '/usr/lib/pkgconfig/osso-af-settings.pc'
<lool> Cool, saw my first modest window before it crashed \o/
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-12-04
<dholbach> good morning
<corevette> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Mobile_and_Embedded_Edition
<lool> StevenK: Did you get my question about the changes to modest you did?
<lool> StevenK: Is there an initial tarball you started with which I could compare to the .dsc you handed?
<lool> StevenK: The idea is to not drop your changes when moving to a new SVN snapshot, yet not to have to search for them in the diff between your snapshot and the new one
<StevenK> lool: I can run svn di, which should show you all of the changes I made.
<lool> StevenK: Would be nice; are there many changes?
<StevenK> lool:  6 files changed, 24 insertions(+), 15 deletions(-)
<StevenK> lool: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/modest.diff
<lool> StevenK: Ok; thanks
<StevenK> lool: And that's with an up to date svn checkout of modest, too.
<lool> StevenK: I needed more changes for some reason
<lool> StevenK: Dirk said he merged all the changes I sent yesterday already
<lool> Except the ones from my last mail of yesterday evening
<StevenK> lool: What other changes?
<lool> Misc stuff really
<lool>                 my_type = g_type_register_static (TNY_TYPE_MOZ_EMBED_HTML_MIME_PART_VIEW,
<lool>                                                   "ModestMozembedMimePartView",
<lool> -                                                 &my_info, 0);
<lool> +                                                 &my_info, GTypeFlags(0));
<lool> That kind of changes
<lool> Good summary of the available apps at http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/nokia-n810-review.ars/3
<StevenK> lool: Is that on top of my changes?
<StevenK> lool: And does yours actually build?
<lool> StevenK: Mine built yesterday, yes
<lool> StevenK: Concerning tinymail, what's your plan?
<lool> StevenK: Philip merged most of our changes he says
<lool> And indeed, I only see the LIBTINYMAILUI_MOZEMBED_CFLAGS in configure.ac missing
<StevenK> lool: I was going to upload it, and then modest blew up. And then I got distracted. :-)
<StevenK> lool: Would you mind sending me what's different between my modest changes and yours?
<lool> StevenK: When I've merged them, I will
<asac> any update on tinymail/modest :) ?
<lool> asac: Well as I said yesterday, it built for me, and StevenK built it this morning as well
<lool> Most of my fixes have been merged upstream, except XUL stuff and a couple of warnings which I seem to be the only one to get
<asac> ok, does it work?
<lool> It shows a dialog before crashing here :)
<lool> I'm cleaning up the patches, merging stuff upstream and downstream and midstream and will investigate after that
<lool> I found an urgent bug in osso-af-settings though
<asac> k
<asac> lool: do you have a bt of the crash? is it mozilla related?
<lool> asac: I don't have it yet; it was too late yesterday evening
<lool> asac: Did you see the Mozilla backtrace by Philip?
<lool> StevenK: Ah BTW, you need to change tinymail to build against openssl or nss; philip confirmed this is required
<lool> No idea about nspr though
<lool> I suppose nspr isn't required per se
<StevenK> Change it how?
<lool> StevenK: Build-dep on libnss-dev and configure with --mozilla-nss-pc=nss or something similar
<lool> Grepping for usage of the nss and nspr pc files would be best
<lool> StevenK: You saw Philip's mail, right?
<StevenK> lool: I glanced through it.
<StevenK> lool: But, right, NSS would be preferable to OpenSSL
 * StevenK wonders off to discover the wereabouts of his sister in law.
<StevenK> wanders. Oh well
<lool> StevenK: Dirk recommended using the gtkhtml frontend, not mozembed; any reason you picked this one and not the other?
<lool> StevenK: Cool, Dirk merged *all* my changes in SVN r993!  The only thing I need to build modest is the wp_editor() func, which I know where to find now hehe
<StevenK> Way cool.
<StevenK> Is there any reason? Nope, not other than the fact that I'd worked to get libtinymail-mozembed working
<StevenK> r993 | djcb | 2007-12-04 22:28:07 +1100 (Tue, 04 Dec 2007) | 2 lines
<StevenK> * fixes
 * StevenK slaughters Dirk
<lool> Oh eh, the debian/changelog and the SVN log aren't really useful; I more or less mentionned that to him indirectly, I hope he'll do better
<lool> Also, there's no ChangeLog
<StevenK> Of course. Because that would be useful in tracking stuff down
<lool> StevenK: We shouldn't use libwpeditor-plus at all actually
<lool> It seems wpeditor is what we want
<StevenK> Hah
<lool> I'm not sure whether we need libwpeditor-plus, but I think it's a fork which isn't needed anymore
<StevenK> Right.
<StevenK> Where does wpeditor hide, then?
<lool> I'm still investigating; I found a version in the repository, but I'd like to check whether there's an official SVN
<lool> StevenK: So, wpeditor required some porting (I'm on amd64) and some fixes; it just built fine here, but will require packaging cleanup
<StevenK> Fair enough
<StevenK> Send me a mail with where you found it, and your patches and I'll look at cleaning it up
<lool> And modest built  \o/
<lool> Some other breakage introduced by last night fixes by Dirk, but nothing too big
<lool> StevenK: It seems to me we can drop libwpeditor-plus; I'm confirming with Dirk
<StevenK> Excellent.
<StevenK> I need to figure out why yours built and mine doesn't?
<StevenK> Oh, right -- do I need to do that nasty hack of .c -> .cpp any more?
<lool> StevenK: You do because he forgot to commit or to rm the .c file, but the .cpp file is there
<lool> And the missing header file is there too
<lool> But there's a C issue he introduced
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> I'm pondering blowing away my tree and reintroducing the changes
<lool> StevenK: The changes to build modest SVN are: 1) MODEST_MOZEMBED_CFLAGS, 2) rm src/widgets/modest-mozembed-mime-part-view.c, 3) src/modest-account-mgr-helpers.c fixes
<lool> (replace has_errors ||  with if (!has_errors) )
 * lool deserves a lunch break
<StevenK> lool: Before you go?
<lool> StevenK: Hmm?
<StevenK> lool: About your mail, checked how? If they build, or what?
<asac_> lool: you sure you can remove the part-view?
<lool> StevenK: Yeah, if they use the vars and need a rebuild
<StevenK> Ah
<lool> asac_: The .c file was renamed .cpp
<asac_> lool: right :)
 * asac_ lunch as well
<StevenK> lool: I'll take -control-panel and -applets, you can check -desktop?
<lool> asac_: If you leave the .c file around (like in current SVN), it's confusing automake and it builds two objects or so and it fails to link
<lool> StevenK: Yup
<lool> StevenK: Might want to wait that osso-af-settings pops up though
 * lool hungry &
<StevenK> Sure.
<jussi01> Hmmm, who are the canonical staff responsible for Ubuntu Mobile? 
<lool> re
<lool> jussi01: "reponsible"?
<jussi01> lool: hehe, who is working on it and who is the project lead/s?
<agoliveira> StevenK: ...because lool is smarter than you and knows how to tinker with auto* files?
<agoliveira> StevenK: Ooops, old joke.
<StevenK> agoliveira: I think I'll have to get you for that
<lool> jussi01: The tech lead is Mithrandir; there are many people from canonical giving a hand and some people full time ont he project; it depends on the topic
<agoliveira> StevenK: bring a beer when you do! :)
<lool> The casual suspects for mobile stuff would be Mithrandir, StevenK, agoliveira I guess
<jussi01> lool: ok. How about the business lead?
<lool> jussi01: But then we get help from kernel team, from mozilla folks etc.
<lool> jussi01: It "depends" :)
<StevenK> agoliveira: I was pondering bringing over some .au beer - would we drink it?
<lool> jussi01: If you can tell a little more, we can look for proper contact
<lool> jussi01: Unless it's private or something?
<agoliveira> StevenK: Absolutely!
<jussi01> lool: Are you canonical staff?
<StevenK> agoliveira: I'll see if I have a room for an 8-pack
<StevenK> (The beer I'm thinking of comes in 8-packs, not 6-packs :-)
 * lool would be curious to taste Australian beer to, but doesn't want to commit to drinking the full beer
<lool> jussi01: I am
<StevenK> lool: The stuff I'm planning to bring is *dangerously* smooth
<lool> jussi01: But I'm not only working on mobile stuff
<lool> StevenK: That's what I suspected
<StevenK> Heh
<lool> And I'm pretty sure Australien beer flows from bottom to top
<lool> Which is why people easily get drunk with this stuff
<StevenK> Well, it's also 1.8 standard drinks, which helps
<lool> Your country and your beers are too large!
<StevenK> Haha
<agoliveira> StevenK: I had some great beer-related experiences at LCA in 2002 so I'm all for it :)
 * agoliveira misses LCA, not so much the trip itself...
 * StevenK grins
<agoliveira> specially because of a dork trying to play a didgeridoo at the airport lounge for some 2 or 3 hours...
<agoliveira> The trip was Joinville/SÃ£o Paulo/Buenos Aires/Wellington/Brisbane and the return Brisbane/Sidney/Wellington/Buenos Aires/SÃ£o Paulo/Curitiba/Joinville (last part by bus). Not fun at all.
<StevenK> I bet
 * StevenK gets impatient for Eyas to mail him
<agoliveira> Oh, and a gentleman died of a heart atack right in front of me at Wellington's airport lounge.
<StevenK> !
<agoliveira> Yeah, as I said, this trip was no fun at all...
<lool> agoliveira: What did you do to the poor guy?  "boo!"?
<StevenK> Hah
<agoliveira> lool: He was an old guy that passed running for some reason. After a few minutes, he returned and sat just in front of me, gasping for air (from the running I suppose). He quiet down, started to read a magazine and a few minutes later, he simply dropped the magazine and felt on his side. Me and another guy ran to help, tried CPR while the airport staff came to help with defribilators and everything, worked on him for about 30 minut
<lool> agoliveira: Cut at "30 minut"
<agoliveira> ...worked on him for about 30 minutes but was too late.
 * agoliveira -> lunch
<lool> agoliveira: Ah, it seems we all have to die at some point
<StevenK> lool: I've done the 3 things to modest. So it should build?
<lool> agoliveira: (I'm not saying this because you're heading off to lunch)
<lool> StevenK: It should... with wpeditor
<StevenK> Which you still haven't mailed me about! :-P
<davidm> agoliveira, I'm in 
<lool> davidm: 14:40  * agoliveira -> lunch
<lool> That was 10 mns ago or so
<lool> StevenK: Hehe
<lool> StevenK: I'd like to clarify where it's hosted
<lool> StevenK: I can hand you a .dsc for you to test
<davidm> lool, thanks, yea I saw that, just wanted him to know I was in, he wanted to talk with me.
<lool> StevenK: I'm not confident with one change to the source, but it should only affect the runtime
<StevenK> lool: If you don't get any clarification soon, mail me a link to the .dsc
 * StevenK is going to chat to Colin about daily mobile builds
<lool> StevenK: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/packages/wpeditor/2.12-0ubuntu1/hardy/wpeditor_2.12-0ubuntu1.dsc
<lool> StevenK: So that you can play with modest
<lool> StevenK: I'd suggest not working on wpeditor until we clarify
<StevenK> I'll build it only
<agoliveira> lool: About the guy who died, we have a saying here that roughly translated "the turkey don't die the day before (the dinner)". Day in day out you can read about people that survive disasters with minor scratches while some just trip on the shoelace, hit the head and die on the spot so yes, it was really that guy's turn.
<lool> StevenK: So I got confirmation that we can drop libwpeditor-plus, it was used "during the time there were no proper releases available"
<lool> StevenK: I mailed my first round of fixes to wpeditor; they are looking to move to a SCM
<lool> StevenK: The current place to get wpeditor is http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/w/wpeditor/
<raji> asac, you there? 
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-12-05
<dholbach> good morning
<jussi01> dholbach: Good morning Daniel!
 * jussi01 gives dholbach a Huge hug :)
 * dholbach hugs jussi01 back :)
<jussi01> :D
<jussi01> Hello All.
<agoliveira> jussi01: Hello.
<jussi01> agoliveira: Hi. do you know the process if I wanted to compile ubuntu mobile for arm? and if there are already arm images?
<StevenK> If you wanted to compile Ubuntu Mobile for ARM, you'd first need to port Ubuntu to ARM, it isn't a platform we support.
<jussi01> StevenK: ummm...ok. 
<agoliveira> jussi01: The primary platform, at least at the moment, it's the Intel's LPIA which is x86 based. Personally, I want to port it to arm but as a pet project, not related to Canonical.
<StevenK> agoliveira: It should be easy-ish, given Debian supports ARM
<jussi01> agoliveira: Cool. what is the process??
<agoliveira> StevenK: Yep.
<StevenK> Easier than say, lool's toaster.
<jussi01> StevenK: isnt maemo runnng on arm (n800)?
<agoliveira> jussi01: Well, basically get a arm based device, fix the kernel and try to compile the rest of the applications using crosscompiling generally.
<StevenK> jussi01: Right, but that doesn't use Ubuntu.
<agoliveira> jussi01: Yes, maemo is the the base of the nseries of web tablets.
<agoliveira> I intend to get a Chumby to do that as the Nokia devices have some proprietary parts that would make difficult to port UME to it.
<StevenK> agoliveira: Personally, I'd suggest you get a high MHz ARM box as a workhorse for the port.
<jussi01> agoliveira: I have a custom kernel running on an arm device. How does one go about cross compiling? 
<agoliveira> StevenK: That would be nice indeed but too expensive for me here.
<jussi01> agoliveira: I _may_ have access to one  of those in the near future....
<agoliveira> jussi01: This is quite a lenghy subject to go over here but usually you have a x86 compiler that can produce arm binaries in this example. After compilation you test those binaries on the target device or an emulator.
<agoliveira> jussi01: As I said, *if* I try something, it will be a pet project, just for fun, nothing serious.
<jussi01> agoliveira: ok. I need to continue something at work, but I will grab you to talk a little more in a little while. 
<agoliveira> jussi01: Sure.
<jussi01> :)
<ian_brasil> jussi01: why not try to apt-get the ubuntu sources inside scratchbox and then compile?
<Fenario> lool: Did you see my email from earlier today?
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: whats a Chumby?
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: http://www.chumby.com/
<lool> Fenario: Got it now
<lool> Fenario: he's jussi01 here :)
<Fenario> lool: what channel is jussi01 on ?
<lool> jussi01: Fenario (Jon Melamut) is making himself available to contact you
<lool> Fenario: He's here?!
<Fenario> lool: how would jussi01 be on a Canonical channel?
<lool> Fenario: Hahaha; the email ended in my "admin-cron" folder because of the subject line :)
<lool> Fenario: This isn't a canonical channel; this is a public channel
<lool> Fenario: We're in #ubuntu-mobile on freenode; /me waves
<Fenario> lool: sorry I realived I am on the wrong channel :-
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: way cool, i want one
<Fenario> jussi01: ping
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: I'm thiking about get one of those in January
<jussi01> Fenario: pong
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: maybe we should import a load to Brazil and sell then from the Manaus free zone !
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: I know a few fellow geeks who would love one :)
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: i imagine, they look awesome and pretty cheap too
<jussi01> Fenario: ?
<Fenario> jussi01: hello
<smagoun> StevenK: I saw you updated the spec for Java in UME. I recommend you not bother with IBM or Blackdown, and instead look just at the IcedTea VM.
<smagoun> Blackdown effectively died several years ago, and IcedTea is the real thing.
<smagoun> (Sun's JRE - not IcedTea - would be my first choice but I don't think the license is ubuntu-friendly?)
<smagoun> Also, I think one key feature that needs to work is Java applet support, which requires a Java plugin for the browser. I'm not sure if any VMs do that yet, other than the offical Sun VM.
<StevenK> Sun's JRE is not very friendly, no
<mjg59> We can distribute the Sun VM
<mjg59> It's non-free, but the same is true of Blackdown and IBM
<StevenK> smagoun: I'll update the mini-spec to drop IBM or Blackdown
<smagoun> (The IBM VM supports java 5 while Java 7 is on the way from Sun)
<StevenK> smagoun: mini-spec updated, thanks
<smagoun> cool
<raji> asac, You there?
<smagoun> Hmm, more LPIA bustage - agoliveira's evince patches didn't make it into gutsy/LPIA: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evince/2.20.0-0ubuntu3/+build/403195
 * smagoun thinks the LPIA build queue needs a babysitter, this has happened a number of times
<raji> asac, How do I hack networkmanager to run wpasupplicant with -dd option.?
<agoliveira> smagoun: Weird... I can see my patch on the source
<smagoun> agoliveira: lpia build failed because of a dep problem
<agoliveira> smagoun: Yes, libhildon-1-dev is missing and makes sense as it's a requirement for evince on LIPA.
<agoliveira> LPIA
<smagoun> ...
<agoliveira> As a matter of fact, not many applications will build there with this one missing
<lool> smagoun: The buildd admins should be given back builds which are failing for some archive temporary problem and the uploader should be dealing with build failures AFAIK
<lool> Looking at this build log, I think the buildd admin will deal with it
<smagoun> lool: when? The failure is almost 2 months old. :)
<asac> raji: wait a sec
<smagoun> lool: Several other packages aren't correct in gutsy/lpia, like tasks and freetype1. It's a systemic problem that needs to be fixed
<lool> smagoun: I wonder whether this build was attempted before ppas would pull from universe
<lool> smagoun: It looks like the buildds would only pull from gutsy/main in the log
<lool> smagoun: I don't know who's exactly supposed to look into missing builds; if you find out, I'm interested
<smagoun> lool: I added an action item for tomorrow's meeting, I want to find out too. :)
<asac> raji: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/nm_supp_debug.diff
<lool> smagoun: But then, apart of StevenK, I'm not sure who would be knowledgeable on this during the meeting
<agoliveira> smagoun: I remember that Tollef was looking into this.
<raji> asac, thanks
<kyleN> davidm: ping
<davidm> kyleN, pong, what's up?
<kyleN> i got an email on the list from a fellow I met at UDS/cambridge and he's wasking about location-based activities on UME.
<kyleN> not sure what to say, can you give me something?
<davidm> Not sure what you are looking for?
<kyleN> what will UME do to support location based apps liked GPS, if anything
<kyleN> any API we might support, etc
<davidm> Well some will have GPS's and we are planning on have gpsd in the build to support that.
<davidm> Beyond that for hardy I'm not sure we have plans yet.
<kyleN> is gspd an open source daemon package or something?
<kyleN> s/gspd/gpsd
<kyleN> i found it on wikipedia, thanks
<davidm> NP, gpsd is quite handy since it will allow several applications at a time share the gps data stream.
<kyleN> cool. And i just realized the email was to me and another fellow personally, not to the list. I responded withe the gspd info. 
<kyleN> The fellow was in the mobile room much of the week at UDS.
<kyleN> usm7f5
<kyleN> wrong window
<ian_brasil> kyleN: apt-get install gpsd :)
<kyleN> thanks Ian! ;)
<ian_brasil> geoclue can get location based info either from gpsd (if a gps device is attached) or from hostip.info ,plazes and other web based location services if not 
<ian_brasil> geoclue  can also be used by any application that would like to use location information (YMMV with this though a.t.m)
<ToddBrandt> asac: would you support a patch to network-manager-applet, that adds a file called "src/load.c" which mirrors the behavior of "src/main.c" but builds nm-applet into a hildon status bar library instead of an executable?
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-12-06
<bspencer> Mithrandir: lool : StevenK   Question about the PPA.  I was understanding the PPA to be used with Gutsy.  Is that right?
<StevenK> bspencer: Right.
<bspencer> Mithrandir: lool  ping
<StevenK> bspencer: Mithrandir is on holidays, and it has to be something like 2am for lool. What's up?
<bspencer> Howdy StevenK 
 * StevenK waves
<bspencer> I was trying to understand the PPAs
<bspencer> gutsy PPA and hardy PPA
<bspencer> actually my goal is to know what the hildon-desktop story is
<bspencer> we are trying to find the ubuntu-mobile hildon-desktop
<StevenK> hildon-desktop was uploaded to Hardy, and also to the Gutsy ubuntu-mobile PPA.
<bspencer> so they are the same now and forever?
<StevenK> They are not.
<bspencer> there is a Hardy PPA curiously enough, which has hildon-desktop
<StevenK> Which means a Hardy version was also uploaded to the PPA for some reason - I suspect so it actually existed.
<StevenK> PPAs are very easy to change, and while Hardy is in development, it is also fairly easy to change
<bspencer> OK.  So if we are going to create a Moblin-OSV compliance spec, we will be looking at the Gutsy-PPA hildon-desktop since that is the only thing that works in an image today. 
<bspencer> if/when we move to Hardy based images we can use that.
<StevenK> Right. Which makes it simple since they are both the same version. They can be updated in lockstep if you so wish it.
<bspencer> got it
<bspencer> thanks for the input
<StevenK> No problem.
 * StevenK runs off to lunch, but with no idea of what to eat.
<dholbach> good morning
<lool> StevenK: Around?
<lool> StevenK: I just wanted to tell you that I'm switching from "let's kick modest and its deps until we have a build path and it runs" mode to "quiet" mode, where I'll basically work on other stuff.  I think the tinymail/modest blockers are solved, but please ping me if you meet any new one
<lool> I'll pursue and bridge the upstream discussions I started when needs be
<StevenK> Hurray
<StevenK> I find that modest hangs and mis-behaves on my Q1
<lool> StevenK: With gtkhtml?
<lool> StevenK: You absolutely need to use tinymail SVN though
<lool> The version you were basing of had bugs here
<lool> s/basing of/basing on
<asac> lool: is there a package or bzr branch somewhere?
<asac> (or a backtrace of the crashes you got with mozembed :))
<lool> asac: I didn't investigate them further; upstream says it's experimental code in modest
<lool> asac: I wasn't under the impression that they would be passionate about getting mdoest to work nicely with mozembed
<lool> asac: And there are like millions of warnings and errors on startup, so it would make sense to fix these instead IMO
<lool> asac: But if you like to build it, it's not too hard
<lool> asac: You'll need to build tinymail out of SVN with the single line change to configure.ac to add the unstable CFLAGS, and modest is about the same amount of changes
<asac> currently tinymail bails out here in camel
<asac> ../libtinymail-camel/bs/libbodystruct.a: could not read symbols: Bad value
<lool> SVN tinymail?
<asac> have you seen?
<lool> No
<asac> i use --with-platform=mozembed
<asac> aeh
<asac> maemo
<asac> :)
<lool> Big update it seems
<lool> I just svn uped
<asac> ok --enable-imap-part-fetch
<asac> i need i guess (reading the svn log)
<asac> lool: did modest upstream say that mozembed is experimental or gtkhtml?
<lool> mozembed backend is experimental in modest
<lool> And they recommend gtkhtml and it's what they use for maemo
<lool> asac: I get the same error you do
<lool> /usr/bin/ld: ../libtinymail-camel/bs/libbodystruct.a(bodystruct.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
<lool> That's the actual error
<lool> Building with -fPIC now
<asac> let me know
<lool> ../../libtinymail-camel/.libs/libtinymail-camel-1.0.so: undefined reference to `camel_folder_get_cache_filename'
<lool> But at least it doesn't bail out in the same ugly way
<asac> i don't understand why to add -fPIC explicitly
<lool> I think it's needed on amd64
<asac> ok i will get r3066
<asac> wow ... the modest svn log looks like they don't care
<asac> * fixes, speedups
<asac> * fixes
<asac> * fixes all around
<asac> lol
<asac> :)
<lool> Yeah :-(
<StevenK> The debian/changelog is the same
<lool> asac: Fortunately, there's the debian/changelog
<asac> you really want to use that in mobile?
<asac> ok tinymail r3066 builds \o/
<asac> oh modest already integrated the gtkmozembed_glue.cpp stuff
<asac> nice
<lool> asac: Yeah, almost everything merged
<lool> They didn't drop the .c file though
<lool> But modest is using some old ABI we don't have and I think it needs big work to be fully working
<asac> ABI or API ?
<asac> configure: error: you need to have either wpeditor or libwpeditor-plus installed
<asac> ??
<lool> asac: ABI
<lool> asac: Like the deprecated Gtk+ signals
<lool> It's not visible in the API (and you can't easily check in configure, especially when cross compiling) and checking at runtime would be impracticatl
<asac> ah
<lool> asac: You need wpeditor-dev
<asac> where is that?
<asac> not in hardy for me
<lool> asac: And you should remove libwpeditor-plus* if you have them
<asac> i have nothing :)
<lool> asac: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/packages/wpeditor/2.12-0ubuntu1/hardy/
<asac> thanks
<lool> asac: If you're not running latest p.u.c crack, you're not "in"
<agoliveira> asac: Hi. Do you know any "Openoffice hacking for dummies"? I'm looking at the code and don't even know where to start. This thing uuencoded (God know why) is freaking me out.
<asac> installed ... no going ahead
<asac> agoliveira: i am not openoffice :) ... mozilla is my domain
<agoliveira> asac: Ooops, indeed, sorry :)
<asac> np
<asac> lool: hildon-help or osso-help ?
<asac> where to get that?
<StevenK> agoliveira: calc is the guy is you want
<agoliveira> StevenK: Ah, thanks.
<lool> asac: I don't think you need anything
<asac> lool: nm ... i found libhildonhelp-dev
<asac> well modest with platform=maemo ... needs it
<lool> Yeah, no -help, but libhd-help-dev indeed
<lool> (I dpkg -led \*help)
<asac> ... + mime + fm :) ... now its building
<asac> lool: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2506/
<asac> otherwise it fails because of fatal warnings
<asac> wow ... modest starts
<asac> modest works :-D
<asac> now lets see with mozembed
<lool> asac: Of course it works!  You didn't see my screenshot?  :)
<lool> asac: I've sent a patch for the has_error thing already; I thought it was merged, grmblb
<lool> asac: But Dirk is aware of it, so hopefully should be fixed soon
<asac> k
<lool> asac: I've sent the fpic issue and the subsequent undefined symbol error to tinymail-devel@; I couldn't solve them rapidly enough, and I don't want to dig further since both are the result of recent changes
<asac> sure
<asac> lool: who is the modest maintainer?
<asac> (who did you send the patch to?)
<agoliveira> asac: I am a modest mainteiner!
<agoliveira> asac: Oh, you mean *the* modest mainteiner :)
<asac> the upstream maintainer i mean :)
<asac> ;)
<lool> asac: To Dirk, as found in Debian changelog
<smagoun> asac: Dirk-Jan Binnema@nokia
<lool> asac: I'm sending stuff to modest-devel@ now though
<agoliveira> asac: I couldn't let the joke oprtunity pass ;)
<lool> agoliveira: :)
<asac> agoliveira: yeah :)
<davidm> Almost time to start our weekly meeting...
<smagoun> lool: Is there a working archive for modest-devel?
<ian_brasil> i thought modest used tiny? if so the maintainer is p van hoof i think http://pvanhoof.be/blog/
<lool> smagoun: I don't think so, I wondered the same :-(
<davidm> Are we ready to start?
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:00. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> Action items from last week, stating from the top
<davidm> [topic] lool to take a look at bug # 172426 and see if he can reproduce it.
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to take a look at bug # 172426 and see if he can reproduce it. 
<davidm> lool, any luck?
<lool> davidm: No, I didn't look at it
<davidm> lool, carry it over until next week?
<bfiller> davidm: horace from Intel took and look and could only reproduce part of it
<lool> I expect to have little time to look at it next week, but will resume work on it the following week
<lool> davidm: Yes
<davidm> lool, can you exchange email with horace to see what he knows?
<bfiller> lool: horace checked in a fix into moblin hildon-desktop. Isn't he supposed to commit changes to launchpad?
<lool> asac: [ Removing make installed files fixed the second tinymail build failure for me (see tinymail-devel) ]
<lool> bfiller: Bah
<davidm> [action] carry over lool to take a look at bug # 172426 and see if he can reproduce it. until Dec 20th.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  carry over lool to take a look at bug # 172426 and see if he can reproduce it. until Dec 20th. 
<lool> davidm: We discussed this shortly with bfiller, and it seems Horace addressed another bug, but not the bug Bill is seeing and Horace and I don't
<davidm> OK
<davidm> Thanks
<lool> bfiller: They should IMO
<davidm> new topic then
<lool> bfiller: Why they don't escapes me
<lool> Where's Bob?
<davidm> [topic] bfiller to for looking into a better solution for a banner to be
<MootBot> New Topic:  bfiller to for looking into a better solution for a banner to be 
<lool> Where's Horace?
<bfiller> lool: Horace is in China I think
<mawhalen> Bob Spencer?  
<mawhalen> He is in China working right now -
<mawhalen> It's the middle of the night
<mawhalen> Rusty is there too
<davidm> There is some meeting today that is keep Don Johnson from attending today.
<lool> Is Moblin having weekly meetings where we should discuss using bzr?
<bfiller> davidm: I have temp solution for problem, waiting for hildon-desktop problems to be resolved
<lool> mawhalen: Thanks for the info
<davidm> bfiller, Do I need to carry over again or are you good? 
<bfiller> davidm: I will follow up directly with bspencer, so I you don't need to carry over
<davidm> OK, thanks
<agoliveira> mawhalen: Tell them to try the marinated snake! :)
<mawhalen> and scorpions
<davidm> [topic] Don_Johnson to get this written up (USB info) with some use cases and put it on the mail list.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Don_Johnson to get this written up (USB info) with some use cases and put it on the mail list. 
<davidm> I'll take this, Don sent out the USB info and I am having it tested.  We have the client side files now and will see how it goes. 
<asac> lool: ok i added the (new/current) modest and tinymail patches to: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/xulrunner/xulrunner-porting ... as you said modest was completely broken :)
<davidm> So I'm going to drop this action as complete.
<agoliveira> asac: Meeting now.
<davidm> I'm going to skip "bspencer & Don_Johnson to clarify the process and deliverables" since neither of them are here
<lool> asac: Well upstream said that
<davidm> [topic] bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works
<MootBot> New Topic:  bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works 
<asac> sorry for the interruption
<davidm> asac, NP
<lool> asac: Modest needs a lot of non-mozembed fixing and upstream says the mozembed part is experimental, so it seems we should focus on gtkhtml as a starter (given current constraint of the mobile team)
<davidm> whoops both are not here either. Next topic then
<lool> Carry on?
<davidm> [action] carry over to next week: bspencer & Don_Johnson to clarify the process and deliverables
<MootBot> ACTION received:  carry over to next week: bspencer & Don_Johnson to clarify the process and deliverables 
 * agoliveira thinks that's going to be a quick meeting :)
<davidm> [action] continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works
<MootBot> ACTION received:  continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works 
 * lool goes filing surprize agenda items
<davidm> [topic] smagoun Since my group needs it, I'll take an action item to test overriding exa for a gutsy psb backport
<MootBot> New Topic:  smagoun Since my group needs it, I'll take an action item to test overriding exa for a gutsy psb backport 
<smagoun> Working on it today. Nothing to report, other than my current build crashes
 * agoliveira looks very hard towards Paris...
<davidm> carry the action forward?
<smagoun> haven't had a chance to root-cause yet
<smagoun> davidm: sure
<davidm> [action] carry over smagoun Since my group needs it, I'll take an action item to test overriding exa for a gutsy psb backport. In progress.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  carry over smagoun Since my group needs it, I'll take an action item to test overriding exa for a gutsy psb backport. In progress. 
<davidm> next action then?
<davidm> [topic] kyleN to test h-i-m and get back to StevenK on status Mobile Application spec: (issue documentation is light)
<MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN to test h-i-m and get back to StevenK on status Mobile Application spec: (issue documentation is light) 
<kyleN> I haven't had a chance to try this out yet. Our project is currently expecting to use SCIM though.
<davidm> OK, carry over then, or drop?
<kyleN> it's onmy list to check, so I'd say drop it from the carry over
<davidm> OK, will do.
<davidm> The next topic is for Amit and he is on holiday so it's a skip
<davidm> [topic] amitk to update hardy ppa with drivers
<MootBot> New Topic:  amitk to update hardy ppa with drivers 
<davidm> I don't know if this got done or not.
<davidm> [action] carry over amitk to update hardy ppa with drivers
<MootBot> ACTION received:  carry over amitk to update hardy ppa with drivers 
<davidm> That concludes prior actions.
<davidm> New topics next
<davidm> [topic] smagoun - Better tracking of LPIA build failures (correct versions of evince, freetype1, tasks, probably others didn't get into gutsy/lpia because of various build failures: [WWW] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/lpia/+builds)
<MootBot> New Topic:  smagoun - Better tracking of LPIA build failures (correct versions of evince, freetype1, tasks, probably others didn't get into gutsy/lpia because of various build failures: [WWW] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/lpia/+builds) 
<smagoun> We've discovered - the hard way - that a number of LPIA builds failed, so correct versions of certain packages didn't make it into gutsy. For example, the gutsy/lpia versions of freetype1, evince, + tasks are out-of-date.
<smagoun> We'd like to make sure this doesn't happen in the future. What's the best way to monitor LPIA builds to make sure they're sync'ed with i386?
<davidm> agoliveira, lool any thoughts?
<agoliveira> davidm: Sorry, no. I don't know how this works. SOmeone from the build team is needed I guess.
<agoliveira> I remember that Tollef was looking into this.
<smagoun> He's on holiday this week, right?
<davidm> Yes and I don't know where it's at, Tollef is on holiday, so I'll look into it and query the build team
<davidm> smagoun, yes he is.
<davidm> [action] davidm to query build team on best way to monitor the i386 builds and the LPIA builds to stay in sync.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  davidm to query build team on best way to monitor the i386 builds and the LPIA builds to stay in sync. 
<davidm> I'll also query tollef but he is on a real vacation and pretty much out of contact.
<davidm> next topic
<lool> (I'm personally of the opinion that this is regular QA)
<lool> (On our archive)
<agoliveira> I sent him an email days ago: no response.
<lool> It should be covered by some existing process or docs (I would be surprized if it isn't), but I'm not too familiar to tell which
<smagoun> I figured it might be a special case since LPIA is in ports.ubuntu.com
<davidm> lool thanks, I'll check
<davidm> [topic] ChickenCutlass - Discuss reasons behind the decision to use acpid, custom moblin battery applet instead of using gnome-power-manager and its status bar applet.
<MootBot> New Topic:  ChickenCutlass - Discuss reasons behind the decision to use acpid, custom moblin battery applet instead of using gnome-power-manager and its status bar applet. 
<ChickenCutlass> I just wanted to get some info from Intel about how the decision was made to use a custom battery applet as well as acpid and not use the existing gnome-power-manager
<ChickenCutlass> I think this might be a question for ToddBrandt 
<ChickenCutlass> There seems to be a bunch of duplicate code
<ChickenCutlass> more to maintain
<davidm> ToddBrandt, comments?
<davidm> I see he's in the room but I'm not sure if he is watching.
<bfiller> can anyone from Intel ping him?
<smagoun> >14 hours 20 minutes
<mawhalen> I will
<smagoun> don't think he's here...
<davidm> ChickenCutlass, can you send him an email with your question?
<ChickenCutlass> davidm, ok -- I will post to the list
<lool> Basically Intel is forking a lot of stuff and distros don't like forks
<ChickenCutlass> lool, exactly
<davidm> Good point.
<agoliveira> We're going to have a very hard time trying to integrate it back.
<agoliveira> *if*
<davidm> [action] Michael Frey to post " Discuss reasons behind the decision to use acpid, custom moblin battery applet instead of using gnome-power-manager and its status bar applet" question to the list.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Michael Frey to post " Discuss reasons behind the decision to use acpid, custom moblin battery applet instead of using gnome-power-manager and its status bar applet" question to the list. 
<davidm> [topic] smagoun - startp performance update from agoliveira
<MootBot> New Topic:  smagoun - startp performance update from agoliveira 
<smagoun> I'd heard that agoliveira was measuring bootup time, any progress on that?
<smagoun> (measuring + finding improvements)
<agoliveira> smagoun: Sorry, didn't have the chance to go into this yet. I made a few tests but nothing conclusive yet.
<agoliveira> I expect to be able to do it early next week.
<lool> agoliveira: Did you manage to get bootchart working?
<smagoun> lool: It worked for us - apt-get install bootchart was all we needed
<agoliveira> lool: On the Q1? yes.
<agoliveira> But as I said, I didn't look into it very hard.
<davidm> smagoun, agoliveira has been stuck on claws fixes and some other work, it's top on his list now.
<smagoun> thanks
<davidm> NP
<lool> smagoun: Yeah, for me too, which is why I wonder
<davidm> [action] agoliveira to report next week any findings on boot speed.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  agoliveira to report next week any findings on boot speed. 
<agoliveira> Deal.
<davidm> OK, I have no further new items, the floor is open as we have some time left... 
<davidm> [topic] open floor
<MootBot> New Topic:  open floor 
<davidm> Anything from anyone?
<davidm> Going once..........................................
<kyleN> the usb client use cases provided a lot of info
<kyleN> that Don J sent to list: just mentioning that
<davidm> It does, and with ARMS access we now have the client side code too.
<kyleN> Going twice.....
<davidm> It's a bit confusing but we are delving into it to see what it does.
<kyleN> right
<davidm> Indeed
<lool> I'm worried that it ends in MIC
<agoliveira> lool: MIC?
<smagoun> anyone else think that a squashfs partition + ext3 partition + big vfat parition is going to be a bit limiting?
<lool> MIC simply doesn't sound like a very maintainable place to live
<smagoun> upgrades will be painful...
<lool> agoliveira: moblin-image-creator
<agoliveira> smagoun: I think that will be a mess...
<davidm> That could be an issue.
<agoliveira> lool: Oops :)
<lool> smagoun: I don't understand why they picked a real partition for vfat instead of a loopback mounted one
<smagoun> lool: I don't understand *any* of the decisions they made :)
<lool> smagoun: squashfs should go away
<davidm> smagoun, I hope it's not a "big" vfat partition, that could really eat space.
<lool> smagoun: It's supposed to be possible to have only a real ext3
<lool> Dunno how far this support is at the moment though
<smagoun> davidm: My understanding from the thing Don posted was that data was expected to be on the vfat partition? Or did I read it too quickly?
<robr> we really need to have Rusty in this discussion for USBC and VFAT
<lool> robr: +1
<davidm> robr, that is true, otherwise we are spinning wheels
<kyleN> yes, the data to share must be on vfat, which eems non great for usability
<kyleN> seems
<lool> It sounds like userspace is not architectured for maintenance or upgrades, just one shot "we can do it"  :-/
<davidm> Shall we take this to the list and bring it back here if necessary?
<HappyCamp_laptop> The vfat was only put in a few days ago, by alek.  I'm sure it will be easy to make it a file on the system.
<HappyCamp_laptop> Also I thought squashfs was optional.
<robr> we seem to keep putting this discussion off from week to week, why don't we schedule a meeting when Rusty is back just for the USBC discussion so we can hammer it out once and for all
<lool> HappyCamp_laptop: Did you have a change to discuss doing this in a separate codebase?
<HappyCamp_laptop> lool: nope
<kyleN> from a user's point of view, I'd want the photos/videos/music folders to be automatically sharable, but they are not in vfat
<lool> HappyCamp_laptop: I think you should consider what happens if we need to fix a device; say, how do we provide an upgrade to the USB Client files which are in the vfat
<lool> HappyCamp_laptop: I'm sure that if you discuss with Alek, you will want to split it out
<mdz_> robr: +1
<HappyCamp_laptop> I'm confused, wouldn't you just copy the new files there?
<davidm> robr, that makes sense to me. Can you take the lead on pulling the meeting together?
<lool> HappyCamp_laptop: Who would?
<robr> if you don't put them on a VFAT partition your other choice is to share them over RNDIS/Samba which a whole bunch of other issues
<HappyCamp_laptop> Whatever update program we come up with.
<robr> davidm: i can do that
<lool> HappyCamp_laptop: We already have apt and dpkg; why would we want another program?
<kyleN> robr: right, so the usablity is questionable?
<davidm> [action] robr to arrange a meeting around USB and VFAT issues.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robr to arrange a meeting around USB and VFAT issues. 
<HappyCamp_laptop> Still confused, why wouldn't the usb client files be part of a package?
<agoliveira> I had this crazy idea about creating a client application a la Apple :)
<lool> HappyCamp_laptop: So you need some infrastructure to update the contents of the vfat
<lool> HappyCamp_laptop: Which makes me wonder why we should do it in MIC in the first place
<lool> (Since obviously MIC wont be installed on the final devices)
<HappyCamp_laptop> lool: why?  vfat is mounted, and then you have package which installs content into wherever we decide to have vfat mounted.
<HappyCamp_laptop> That would be how I would think it should be done.
<lool> HappyCamp_laptop: Hmm I wouldn't want a .deb installing data directly in a mounted vfat
<HappyCamp_laptop> why not?
<HappyCamp_laptop> Is that a problem?
<lool> I am not sure dpkg is ready to cope with installing packages over vfat
<HappyCamp_laptop> Because if not, things will be more difficult :(
<HappyCamp_laptop> vfat makes things more difficult :(
<davidm> I think before we go to far with this conversation we need to have the right people in the meeting.
<HappyCamp_laptop> okay
<lool> davidm: good point
<davidm> OK so it's tabled until robr gets the right people together then.
<lool> HappyCamp_laptop: So I would personally thing it would be simpler to have a package take a directory and generate a vfat out of it; this generation could happen each time we drop something in that dir
<lool> HappyCamp_laptop: I didn't see any drawback to this, and it keeps the problem simple
<lool> HappyCamp_laptop: I'm happy to setup a meeting with you and Alek to discuss this
<HappyCamp_laptop> lool: okay, I don't understand but I'm sure you can explain it :)
<davidm> OK, anything else new? I don't see anything new on the meeting wiki
<HappyCamp_laptop> lool: you will need to meet with us individually, and probably alek first.  alek_desktop is in PRC and I am in Oregon.  Will be tough for you to meet with us at the same time.
<lool> HappyCamp_laptop: Ok; will meet with him then; is he aware of the public meeting?
<agoliveira> HappyCamp_laptop: Maybe bring him there for the sprint?
<robr> actually i think lool needs to meet with alek rusty happycamp and me
<davidm> robr please make sure I'm on that list too.  Thanks
<HappyCamp_laptop> robr, lool is in Europe and sound asleep when we normally meet with PRC.
<robr> agoliveira: that's a good suggestion
<lool> HappyCamp_laptop: I probably am, it feels like you wake up when I go to bed and vice-versa; it's very bad for day to day questions / work
<robr> HappyCamp_laptop: understood, but if we're going to solve this someone is going to lose some sleep
<lool> (Nobody to blame here, it's just a fact)
<agoliveira> lool: When in need, blame the new guy...
<agoliveira> Hmm... that means you :)
<lool> robr: If it's one shot, I guess I can be the one; but I'll need to plan with a lot of advance time then
<HappyCamp_laptop> lool: sorry about that.  I usually start work late so that it is easier to work with PRC, since I have to work late.
<robr> or you just blame HappyCamp
 * agoliveira can't say that. He's the boss :)
<lool> As my computer is basically in the room where my wife sleeps (and me too naturally)
<robr> i might be able to convince Alek to stay up a little late, 9am PST is only 12 midnight in PRC
<davidm> OK, so we have a short range plan, robr is going to find a suitable time for everyone to meet, recognizing that someone is going to be a bit inconvenienced.
<HappyCamp_laptop> "only" ;)
<robr> correction, that's 1am
<lool> robr: I'm in UTC + 1 ATM, can you send some meeting proposals via email to all of us?
<robr> lool: sure
<lool> Thanks
<davidm> Ok we already have an action item for that so we are good.
<lool> We need to exchange more with Intel; I feel we go through huge pains because we don't exchange enough in advance :)
<davidm> OK, there is no new additions to the wiki page for the meeting.  Are we done then?
<agoliveira> Just a quick note: is Intel aware about our company-wide hollidays? If not, maybe they should.
<davidm> Good point, we are off from Dec 24th - Jan 1 back on Jan 2
<davidm> I'll make sure Don Johnson has this info, I think he does already.
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:54.
<agoliveira> I'm starting a week earlier so my last week working this year is the next.
<ian_brasil> lool: if you haven't already done so you might want to contact pvanhoof 'at' gnome.org directly rather than the nokia maintainer of modest
<lool> ian_brasil: The Nokia maintainer seemed to be doing all the commits
<lool> Another Nokia guy who's hard to reach is the wpeditor maintainer
<lool> Didn't respond to me yet
<InSearchOf> Anyone around?
<lool> HappyCamp: So, do you want me to clarify the idea for vfat maintenance?
<agoliveira> InSearchOf: Lot's of people around :) Say hi to Sasha :)
<sodarock_home> lool: sure
<ian_brasil> lool: ok, most of the underlying modest stuff is tiny so i think he is upstream of upstream
<lool> ian_brasil: Okay; thanks for the tip
<sodarock_home> lool, can you write it up as an email?  Alek is the one doing the implementation.
<lool> sodarock_home: sodarock_home HappyCamp HappyCamp_ubuntu HappyCamp_laptop how many do you get here?  :)
<sodarock_home> I've been busy with Fedora enablement on MIC.
<InSearchOf> hey agoliveira 
<sodarock_home> lool: sorry, home system, work system 1, work system 2, etc...
<lool> sodarock_home: I did write it up in my email to ubuntu-mobile@
<sodarock_home> lool: okay, I will make sure to read it and send it to alek.
<lool> sodarock_home: Yup, saw the many commits for Yum support
<lool> sodarock_home: I basically read your commits messages as you might have guessed  ;)
<lool> sodarock_home: I've Cc:ed Alek in my message since you mentionned he worked on the subject
<sodarock_home> lool: We are trying to get Fedora working, then Red Flag will be getting their stuff working too.
<InSearchOf> I'm from pdaXrom, www.pdaxrom.org, we are looking at starting to dev. for ubuntu for the use on ARM arch.
<lool> sodarock_home: Are you expecting Ubuntu installs to be able to run MIC to bootstrap their dist (don't know how it's called) and UME and Red Flag installs to be able to do the same?
<InSearchOf> agoliveira, you were talkin to sash earlier correct?
<sodarock_home> lool: basically you will be able to do the same thing on Fedora/Red Flag as you do now with Ubuntu.  Is the goal.
<lool> sodarock_home: Okay; so I don't expect I'll run tests to bootstrap their distro myself, but I can ensure the deps are in place to do so
<sodarock_home> lool, if you have an Ubuntu host, you can do Ubuntu images.  and vis-versa
<lool> sodarock_home: Are you currently doing QA at Intel on how MIC works in UME with pure UME repos?
<sodarock_home> But Ubuntu will not be able to make a redflag/fedora image.  Though if you did install yum on Ubuntu you could.
<lool> sodarock_home: Ah so you don't want to allow RF images from Ubuntu hosts in particular?
<lool> sodarock_home: Well that's the question I'm asking: do you want to pull yum in the Ubuntu MIC packages
<sodarock_home> My goal is only to make them work on their respective distributions, since trying to do more seemed like more work.
<sodarock_home> lool: I don't think so
<lool> sodarock_home: Okay; nobody will do QA for cross rootstrapping IIUC?
<agoliveira> InSearchOf: Yep. I know him for quite some time.
<lool> Ok
<lool> sodarock_home: How is their mobile edition called?
<lool> (RF)
<sodarock_home> lool: no plans on my end, but things can always change.  I wasn't planning on adding yum support to MIC, but then I was told to :)
<sodarock_home> lool: midinix or something like that?  midlinux?
<sodarock_home> I forget, neither of those look correct :(
<InSearchOf> agoliveira, well I believe sash was speaking to you about moving pdaxrom to the ubuntu platform... opening up the use on ARM devices
<lool> sodarock_home: Are you at Intel building stuff from UME, or testing our daily builds?
<lool> sodarock_home: I mean, are you doing QA with "pure" UME?
<sodarock_home> lool: I don't think so.  We primarily are testing using Gutsy and moblin.org
<lool> sodarock_home: MIDLinux seems to match on Google
<sodarock_home> I believe, but not positive.
<agoliveira> InSearchOf: Yes, he told me about it.
<lool> sodarock_home: Ok, thanks for the info
<InSearchOf> sashz, your here
<sashz> yes
<sashz> hi
<sodarock_home> Okay, well I'm going to go into work now, lool 
<agoliveira> InSearchOf: As I told him, we don't have any support now for anything but Intel's LPIA but as the base of UME is Maemo, shouldn't be hard to do it.
<lool> sodarock_home: have fun
<InSearchOf> agoliveira, as of today I'm going to start working on pdaXrom/ubuntu... I'm going to be putting together another svn branch
<agoliveira> InSearchOf: Cool.
<InSearchOf> agoliveira, sash noted about the build systems you guys us... it is not up to par?
<agoliveira> InSearchOf: I'm sorry but I don't understand what are you asking.
<InSearchOf> agoliveira, nevermind :-)
<mawhalen> lool: aren't the daily builds still off Gutsy?  Do you have Hardy daily UME builds?
<lool> mawhalen: I don't know where the hardy daily builds stand; my builds are hardy at the moment, and the hardy MIC pulls from hardy
<mawhalen> We have a resource that we were going to start looking at doing some integration test of the Hardy UME builds
<mawhalen> Could he contact you to figure out where to get the bits?
<mawhalen>  Or - could do it on mailing list - 
<lool> mawhalen: I'm not sure what bits you need, so I can't promess anything
<lool> mawhalen: But he's welcome to ask me (or the mailing-list) anything :)
<mawhalen> I'll have him come and search!
<mawhalen> thx 
<InSearchOf> all, is there anyone has attempted ARM builds that I could cross reference with?
<agoliveira> InSearchOf: Not that I'm aware of.
<ramesh_> lool: where can I get a MIC that I can build hardy images with ?
<lool> ramesh_: You can configure the latest MIC in gutsy or hardy to do so, and the MIC in hardy will do so by default
<InSearchOf> agoliveira, thanks
<ramesh_> lool : Thanks.
<InSearchOf> agoliveira, do you mind if I ask you a few questions? or point me in the direction to find some info about UME
<agoliveira> InSearchOf: Sure, no problem.
<InSearchOf> well first where can I find some info on UME
<InSearchOf> where are the UME source repos? 
<agoliveira> InSearchOf: The source are the same for Ubuntu the only differece is that when it's built to run on lpia arch, it links the hildon interface. IF you want to build an image to start with, check the image-builder package.
<InSearchOf> agoliveira, is UME run using XFCE, OpenBox, or a custom build gui?
<agoliveira> Hildon which is the maemo's one. The WM itself is matchbox.
<ToddBrandt> ChickenCutlass: you still on?
<ToddBrandt> davidm: you as well?
<ChickenCutlass> ToddBrandt, yes
<ToddBrandt> sorry to miss the meeting
<davidm> I'm still here
<ToddBrandt> the answer to why I built the battery applet pretty by reusing snippets of gpm code instead of just installing gpm is that we have a custom solution for power management called PPM
<davidm> NP ToddBrandt 
<ToddBrandt> so GPM would just get in the way
<ChickenCutlass> ToddBrandt, so why build PPM
<ToddBrandt> I just added the battery applet so that the user could see what the charge state is, that's all
<davidm> ToddBrandt, so you could not just extend GPM?
<ToddBrandt> ChickenCutlass: that is a deep philosophical question that only Rusty can really answer, but the short of it is that we started the project without knowing which license we were approved for
<ToddBrandt> so GPM is GPLv2, and that was out initially
<ToddBrandt> as for why we don't just extend GPM, actually I think it's not a bad idea to do that, but ultimately the decision's Rusty's
<ChickenCutlass> ToddBrandt, ok -- I am just trying to understand some decisions that were made.  I am also trying to reduce the amount of "new" code
<ToddBrandt> I think at this point the PPM infrastructure is so different that it would be harder to extend than just to continute on the original course
<ToddBrandt> yea, I understand, new code is generally bad
<ChickenCutlass> ToddBrandt, where is PPM -- is that a moblin project
<ToddBrandt> I've looked over the GPM code and it seems to incorporate alot of things that PPM has covered in parallel, but I believe that PPM is also tuned to handle some hardware spefici features of LPIA
<ToddBrandt> yea, it's on moblin.org, I thought they made a project page for it but I could be wrong
<ChickenCutlass> I will check
<ToddBrandt> mawhalen: what's the project site for PPM?
<ToddBrandt> I know there's a blueprint for PPM
<ToddBrandt> because I wrote the first version of it, but it has since been hugely  modified
<ChickenCutlass> ToddBrandt, ok -- i will look it up
<ToddBrandt> http://moblin.org/projects_ppm.php
<ToddBrandt> there's the page, found it
<ChickenCutlass> ToddBrandt, thanks
<ToddBrandt> ChickenCutlass: one other reason for not just reusing GPM is it's desktop oriented and PanelApplet based I think, where all the moblin stuff is based on the hildon API which uses objects a little higher up the GTK tree from PanelApplet, Hildon status bar applets are all just children of the GtkButton class
<ToddBrandt> Plus GPM uses libbobobo which is also unued on moblin
<ChickenCutlass> ToddBrandt, got it
<mawhalen> agoliveira: you online?
<agoliveira> mawhalen: Yes, right here.
<mawhalen> agoliveira: i heard your samsung hd crashed
<agoliveira> mawhalen: Well, not completely but it's not 100% I guess. Working but making some strange noises.
<mawhalen> agoliveira: did david get you a new drive?  OR is there anyway to order one easily to Brazil?
<agoliveira> mawhalen: I already got one, no need to worry about it.
<mawhalen> agoliveira: talk nicer to it
<mawhalen> agoliveira: ok - 
<agoliveira> Thanks for asking. BTW, if you have another Q1 needing a good home, I'll be glad to find it :)
<mawhalen> agoliveira: only if I don't have to ship it to Brazil...
<mawhalen> agoliveira: I actually don't have any spares at the moment
<agoliveira> mawhalen: Just kidding but anyway, I'll be there in January so I can bring one if necessary.
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-12-07
<dholbach> good morning
 * jussio1 walks in and waves
<jussio1> InSearchOf: ping
<jussio1> dholbach: do you know which timezone agoliveira is in?
<dholbach> jussio1: he's in brazil
<jussio1> dholbach: ahh, thank you.
<sivang> HOwdy all
<sivang> nice to be back
<sivang> (to ubuntu in general, that is)
<sivang> I wonder if anyone would know if there's a version of ubuntu mobile + cross compilation environment available to test it on an Alchemy AU1500 based evaluation board ?
<sivang> (I'm currently running a debian nfs root under a hand made kernel, but need X on it so want to try ubuntu mobile)
<sivang> ah right, so it's only for intel based hardware at the moment. I should come back later then :)
<ian_brasil> i am getting an error running sudo debootstrap --arch lpia hardy ${DIR} http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports
<ian_brasil>  of -> Failure trying to run: chroot /home/ian/Dev/Ume/hardy-lpia-chroot/ubuntu-ports dpkg --force-depends --install var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.6.1-6ubuntu2_lpia.deb
<ian_brasil> any ideas?
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: Just that? No other info?
<ian_brasil> just that it seems
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: Have you seem any erros related to debootstrap not being able to mount /proc?
 * ian_brasil looks
<ian_brasil> no...only warnings -> Couldn't download package libgnutls13 , libasound2, libgnutls13, util-linux
<ian_brasil>  and sed
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: Sorry, beats me
<ian_brasil> np...libgnutls13 depends on libc6 so i imagine th original error might be related to the download problem...i will try again in a while
<edwin_wang> ping agoliveria...  r u there
<agoliveira> edwin_wang: 
<agoliveira> edwin_wang: Hi, yes, I'm here but about to enter in a meeting
<edwin_wang> yes, i know. i will try to join the same meeting as well
<InSearchOf> agoliveira, I have a few more questions about moving pdaxrom or UME, are you available?
<agoliveira> InSearchOf: Sorry, meeting now.
<agoliveira> edwin_wang: ok
<InSearchOf> agoliveira, will chat later
<agoliveira> InSearchOf: ok
<kyleN> lool: I'm trying to install gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse lpia and can't do it. is there a problem with this package?
<agoliveira> kyleN: Yes, they are ilegal for you and I already sent your data to RIAA and MPAA. Expect SWAT, FBI and the Spanish Inquisition arriving any minute now...
<agoliveira> kyleN: as nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, you can just relax :)
<kyleN> I always expect the Spanish Inquisition!
<agoliveira> kyleN: You can't. Their chief weapon is surprise!
<smagoun> agoliveira: it's not the inquisition, it's another silent LPIA build failure: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins-bad-multiverse0.10/0.10.5-1/+build/364774
 * smagoun is not amused
 * agoliveira is just going to stop before starts to recreate the whole sketch...
<agoliveira> smagoun: Damn...
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: i am not sure what that was about as the debootstrap is working now
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: Gee... call a rezadeira :)
<ian_brasil> i have one dancing outside constantly ;) (rezadeira == shaman in english (more or less))
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-12-01
<skotti_> Hello everyone
<playya> hi
<HaggisPC> i tried ubuntu-8.10-mid-lpia.img on my Acer Aspire One A150 yesterday , Awsome !! now writing the ubuntu-8.10-umpc-i386.img to try then will add the progs/fixes for adding UNR stuff so i can have best of both :) these netbooks are brilliant
<HaggisPC> booting umpc now :)
<HaggisPC> ooo , i like it better than the mid/unr :) but no wifi , guess i need to build latest driver again
<HaggisPC> moved left panel to bottom and shrunk hight to 30 :) looks even better now
<Alastair_> hi guys
<Alastair_> someone with penmount toucscreen around here? :D
<HaggisPC> i have no touchscreen , just trying umpc image on my Acer Aspire One A150 , looks awsome !! Alastair_ 
<Alastair_> i'm with the regular ubuntu atm, but i'm downloading the mobile version.. the touchscreen is giving me headaches :/
<HaggisPC> what device you using it on ?
<Alastair_> giga M912M
<Alastair_> do you have working wireless ?
<HaggisPC> no , i have to build the latest ath5k driver as usual
<HaggisPC> installing umpc now
<HaggisPC> thats a nice machine you got Alastair_ 
<Alastair_> damn... i hoped at least it'll work out of the box :/
<HaggisPC> what wifi you got ?
<Alastair_> AR5007EG
<HaggisPC> ohh same as the Acer Aspire One
<Alastair_> yea,
<Alastair_> how about the touchpad
<Alastair_> does it work... xD
<HaggisPC> for the mid / unr i had to blacklist the ath_hal and buils a new ath_pci
<HaggisPC> touchpad works fine :)
<Alastair_> ^^ lol, at least something to look forward..
<HaggisPC> build*
<Alastair_> mine doesn't work with the regular version..
<HaggisPC> i'll link you to the info and download for wifi , 2 secs
<Alastair_> thx :p
<Alastair_> btw. how did you burn the image ?
<Alastair_> now i see it's .img file, i can't write it to the flash with unetbootin
<HaggisPC> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AspireOne
<HaggisPC> see the wifi part
<HaggisPC> dd it
<HaggisPC> in windows i use flashnul
<HaggisPC> http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://shounen.ru/soft/flashnul/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dflashnul%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26hs%3D7k4
<HaggisPC> howto flashnul here http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://shounen.ru/soft/flashnul/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dflashnul%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26hs%3D7k4
<HaggisPC> sudo dd if=/path/to/your/downloaded.img of=/dev/usb-device Alastair_  :)
<HaggisPC> allthat should help :)
<Alastair_> the problem is i'm running windows on my main pc :D
<Alastair_> still waiting for my new drive to arrive in order to migrate
<HaggisPC> use flashnul and a usb stick :)
<HaggisPC> stick in your usb stick then got start / run type cmd to get comand prompt
<HaggisPC> got = goto
<HaggisPC> the cd to dir you have flashnul and image in
<HaggisPC> type flashnul -p ,then you will see which number your drive is
<HaggisPC> then
<playya> i think the problem is that the windows pc has a different wifi chip
<HaggisPC> thype flashnul THE_NUMBER -L image.img :)
<HaggisPC> Fedora 10 manages to select the correct driver :P
<HaggisPC> hehe
<Alastair_> i think i managed to write it, now i'll test it
<HaggisPC> i don't mind building it each time but i am sure others are getting pissed off by now
<playya> just avoid kernel updates
<HaggisPC> why module ath5k get included is beyond me
<HaggisPC> it would have save loads of hedaches
<HaggisPC> brb , going to build http://snapshots.madwifi-project.org/madwifi-hal-0.10.5.6/madwifi-hal-0.10.5.6-r3835-20080801.tar.gz
<HaggisPC> at least i know this works fine :)
<HaggisPC> cannot find build-essential , apt-get install build-essential gives not found
<HaggisPC> time for a coffee and ciggie i think
<HaggisPC> silly me apt-get update then apt-get install build-essential lol
<HaggisPC> building happy now :)
<haggisAAO> 8-) yay :) on wifi via umpc and Acer Aspire One A150 
<Alastair_> it's alive....... lol
<Alastair_> i've managed to boot the umpc version
<HaggisPC> yay !!
<HaggisPC> do you have wifi ? probably not
<Alastair_> i'll know in a few sec
<Alastair_> slow flash...
<Alastair_> it booted
<HaggisPC> ohh your still running from flash
<Alastair_> the interface is strange
<Alastair_> love the virtual kb tho xD
<HaggisPC> :)
<Alastair_> but the touchscreen is still fu*ked up
<Alastair_> no touchpad too -.-
<HaggisPC> fheck
<HaggisPC> i got my first bug !!
<Alastair_> no wireless also
<HaggisPC> brightness applet is screwed
<Alastair_> damn, i have no luck :/
<Alastair_> lol... mine works xD
<HaggisPC> so add a mouse for now then we will fix your wifi
<Alastair_> at least the menus are large and i can touch them
<HaggisPC> applet grabs focus but doesnt return it so i am in limbo lol
<HaggisPC> ohh get terminal then
<Alastair_> which is better
<Alastair_> mobile or nbr
<HaggisPC> have both :) 
<Alastair_> that's why i'm asking xD
<HaggisPC> you can add nbr to this :)
<HaggisPC> i'll give you link once i find it again , 2 sec
<Alastair_> the only difference i saw is that strange launcher nbr has :s
<HaggisPC> try sudo ts_calibrate  to fix touchscreen , i guess ubuntu will use it
<Alastair_> command not found
<HaggisPC> yes Alastair_ but it is great for fast switching to different progs :)
<HaggisPC> google ubuntu touchscreen then :P
<Alastair_> my biggest problem is the touchpad :/
<Alastair_> everything else i can overlook for the moment
<HaggisPC> i will find mid/unr link
<Alastair_> for now i'll install this
<HaggisPC> okay , i'll try help with touchpad after wifi
<Alastair_> i've bookmarked that link you gave me, i'll try it after installing it
<HaggisPC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/TurnUMPCDesktopIntoNetbook
<HaggisPC> okay hook up an ethernet cable , the apt-get update
<HaggisPC> then*
<Alastair_> hm xD
<HaggisPC> some of that you won't want to do as you have touchscreen
<Alastair_> i think i like the standart umpc version better xD
<HaggisPC> me too :)
<HaggisPC> killed xserver :)
<Alastair_> lol
<Alastair_> btw. how did you partition your disk
<Alastair_> i'm wondering how much swap space to leave
<HaggisPC> guided , then used all disk
<Alastair_> nah, i want to create a 2nd storage partition, the disk is 160gb
<HaggisPC> removed that dam brightness applet :)
<HaggisPC> just use free space you can change things/sizes with gparted later
<Alastair_> i left it with 270mb swap, i think it'll be enough
<HaggisPC> aye
<theseinfeld> Hobbsee, ogra, any changes to bug #289402  and kdebase-workspace builds?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289402 in kdebase-workspace "circular build dependency between kdebase-workspace and kde4bindings, broken on lpia and hppa" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289402
<Alastair_> 271mb swap 13.5gb system, rest storage xD
<Alastair_> i think the touchscreen is screwing the touchpad
<HaggisPC> could be , mabey someone with more experience can help there , mabey rmmod the touchpad driver
<HaggisPC> to see if touchscreen fixes
<Alastair_> nah
<HaggisPC> or other way around :()
<Alastair_> the touchscreen is working, it just doesn't work at the edges of the screen
<Alastair_> around half a cm ;/
<HaggisPC> ahh you need to calibrate it
<Alastair_> yea, but can't find a way to do it :/
<Alastair_> there is no proprietary driver for 8.10, and the calibration tool from the old driver doesnt work
<Alastair_> 75% installed :D
<HaggisPC> system > administration > touchscreen :)
<Alastair_> jesus, how stupid can i be
<HaggisPC> :P
<Alastair_> just send the machine to sleew
<Alastair_> sleep
<HaggisPC> heck !
<Alastair_> pressed fn+f1 instead alt+f1
<Alastair_> lol
<Alastair_> the installation resumed xD
<HaggisPC> i just love this umpc mobile image :)
<HaggisPC> yay
<Alastair_> i hope i didn't damage something
<HaggisPC> i am sure it will be fine
<Alastair_> that's the 1st feature i disable right away
<Alastair_> the damn sleep is useless :s
<HaggisPC> me too , i hate such things  , if i want it to go to sleep , ill press the power buton :)
<Alastair_> yep...
<Alastair_> i only hope this mobile version is more forgiving on the battery ...
<HaggisPC> i had loads of updates after i built the wifi and rebooted , 105 of them ,so i hope nothing breaks
<Alastair_> under vista it survives for nearly 3hrs with disabled wireless, the regular ubuntu drains it in 1-1:30 without wireless X_X
<HaggisPC> hopefully once you get everything updated it will be better anyway
<HaggisPC> restarting my AAO now fingers crossed
<HaggisPC> botted fine but on wifi , guess ill neet to rebuild
<Alastair_> no evtouch capable device found
<Alastair_> ;(
<HaggisPC> ouch
<Alastair_> hm... i'll update first and then fix the wifi xD
<HaggisPC> ahh , it war kernel update , so will need to rebuils but first i'll see if i have ath5k module
<HaggisPC> war=was
<HaggisPC> damn module not found
<HaggisPC> make clean
<HaggisPC>  ,make ,
<HaggisPC> sudo make install then
<Alastair_> grr
<Alastair_> now i'll have to disconnect my main pc cuz the lack of wifi :/
<Alastair_> but i'm too lazy to do it now :D
<HaggisPC> Every time there is a kernel update you will need to perform the following steps to make the wireless work. Go to the directory (madwifi-hal-0.10.5.6-r3835-20080801) and run: make clean
<HaggisPC>  , make
<HaggisPC> , sudo make install ,GRrr
<HaggisPC> okay Alastair_ , just follow the wifi part on that link and once you get wifi up and running do an update and then you'll have to build again like i did
<HaggisPC> well going for reboot , hopefully wifi will be back again but mabey i'll need new linux headers for the new kernel
<HaggisPC> i got wifi again :)
<haggisAAO> yay!!
<haggisAAO> running kernel 2.6.27-9-generic now
<HaggisPC> we wouldn't have all this hastle if the kernel had ath5k built
<ogra> HaggisPC, it had ath5k built 
<ogra> and it broke the world 
<HaggisPC> ahh but i thought it was fixed
<ogra> this is why we ship a linux-backports-modules package on the image for later installation, including an ath5k backport from a later and better working kernel version
<HaggisPC> ahh :)
<ogra> you just eed to install that package to get ath5k
<ogra> *need
<HaggisPC> i am new to ubuntu as you may have guessed
<ogra> there is a /debs dir on your image that should contain the linux-backports-modules package
<HaggisPC> so do i need to add new repo sources or just apt-get install linux-backports-modules
<ogra> at least on the -umpc image, i'm not sure the dir made it into the -mid images
<HaggisPC> cool :)
<Alastair_> hmm.. so if i install this package i won't have to make my own driver ?
<ogra> after install, just plug in the usb key you installed from, navigate to the debs dir and doubleclick the package 
<HaggisPC> thats cool :)
<HaggisPC> now that was well thought out ogra :)
<ogra> HaggisPC, nah, well thought out would have been if it just worked right away :)
<ogra> but its a usable workaround :)
<Alastair_> ogra, are you one of the devs :D
<ogra> the next release will do better in that regard
<ogra> Alastair_, i'm responsible for the -umpc image, yes
<HaggisPC> i bet you have had a laugh with me building and breaking stuff to get wifi :)
<Alastair_> lol
<ogra> no, i didnt, i just got online and saw the backlog and felt rather sorry :)
<ogra> if i would have been up earlier i could have told you earlier ... i guess we need better docs here 
<ogra> though if your way worked thats fine as well ... all that counts is tht you get a working system ;)
<Alastair_> do you have any suggestions about my problems with the touchscreen & touchpad :?
<HaggisPC> just shows i must be learning something :)
<ogra> Alastair_, i think the touchscreen driver for the gigabyte is proprietary ... 
<ogra> (which means no, sorry)
<Alastair_> yup, but unless they include proprietary drivers in the distro there must be a foss one too... :s
<Alastair_> cuz i have partially working touchscreen
<ogra> hmm
<Alastair_> it is recognized and all, just not calibrated :/
<ogra> do you happen to know what model and manufacturer the touchscreen is ? 
<Alastair_> Penmount 6000 USB
<Alastair_> xserver-xorg-input-penmount
<ogra> right
<Alastair_> i think this is the current driver
<ogra> i dont think that package has a calibration tool 
<Alastair_> there is some sort of calibration tool in system>administration
<ogra> bug 227183 seems the issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227183 in xserver-xorg-input-penmount "no calibration tool" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227183
<Alastair_> "Calibrate Touchscreen"
<ogra> Alastair_, thats the calibration tool from evtouch
<Alastair_> ah.. :D
<Alastair_> well, leave the touchscreen, any hope for the touchpad ? :D
<ogra> (i wrote that, we'll have something better in jaunty (9.04), for intrepid (8.10) it only works with evtouch devices)
<ogra> note really, i dont have much experience with touchpads beyond using one on my laptop ...
<ogra> for the touchscreen there seem to be some intresting bits in the bug though
<Alastair_> hm.. can't wait for the time when i'll put ubuntu on my ipaq :p
<haggisAAO> brb
<HaggisPC> need coffee and ciggie 
<Alastair_> did you try that backports thingie
<HaggisPC> it's old modules compaired to kernel i am running now so , no , i am going to redo from scratch right now
<HaggisPC> my house refuses to heat up 13C inside , -5C outside
<Alastair_> here it's -6c
<HaggisPC> where are you Alastair_ , 10 miles west of Glasgow Scotland here
<Alastair_> bulgaria
<Alastair_> inside temp 26c according to the AC xD
<HaggisPC> nice and warm in your house :)
<Alastair_> hm
<Alastair_> according to msn weather it's 5c above 0 :s
<HaggisPC> lol @ msn
<Alastair_> they probably don't account for moist and wind ^^
<HaggisPC> yes , feels more like -12 out there
<Alastair_> i'm brb, moving the ethernet to the notebook
<HaggisPC> backports worked a treat ogra , you should ad info to umpc page , running ath5k now
 * bizkut is away: auto-away
 * bizkut is back (gone 00:18:13)
 * Hobbsee is pondering cake
<Hobbsee> bizkut: any chance you can turn that off?
 * HaggisPC steals that cake from under Hobbsee's nose
<Hobbsee> :(
<bizkut> Hobbsee, now you know that I am back :D
<Hobbsee> bizkut: yeah, but /away <reason> exists for a reason, far less intrusively
<Hobbsee> ie, people who specifically look for you will know you're away, not the general population
<bizkut> Hobbsee, I turn the away on so people don't have to wait if I don't answer their /query/questions because they know I am not in front of my pc
<bizkut> ok then
<Hobbsee> bizkut: but they see that anyway, with the /away.  That's why it's useful :)
<ogra> beyond that its a general politeness rule in ubuntu channels to not annoy people with automated in/out messages, please turn it off
<Hobbsee> ogra: that too
<HaggisPC> back l8a
<Alastair_> damn
<Alastair_> the wireless worked for a while, but after the update all went to hell -.-
<theseinfeld> Hobbsee, you there?
<theseinfeld> ogra?
<ogra> theseinfeld, what did you break again ? :)
<theseinfeld> nothing, I just try to understand this #289402
<theseinfeld> so, why the kdebase-workspace builds on i386 and not on lpia?
<theseinfeld> to quote from southpark: It doesn't make any sense. :D
<theseinfeld> if we find the answer there,...we can fix the #289402 in lpia
<theseinfeld> and hppa
<theseinfeld> mdz, are you guys going to drop the lpia?
<ogra> theseinfeld, this will be discussed at UDS
<ogra> (as i told you last week already)
<hagisbasheruk> ogra, you should make a note about adding backports to /etc/apt/sources.list for future upgrades for ath5k users , did upgrade and lost wifi lol , forgot to check my sources for backports before running
<ogra> you shouldnt add backports
<ogra> linux-backports-modules is a regular package that lives in intrepid-updates ... 
<hagisbasheruk> well after kernel update i have no ath5k module
<ogra> not in intrepid-backports
<hagisbasheruk> okay :)
<hagisbasheruk> should i remove backports from sources ?
<ogra> well, backports are usually packages from the next release that get backported ... given the status of 9.04 i wouldnt expect much stability from such packages
<hagisbasheruk> ahh ... okay removed ;) thanks
<ogra> linux-backports-modules just means that single modules will be backported from newer kernel versions and put into this package 
<ogra> it isnt related to the backports archive :)
<hagisbasheruk> ahh well thats what has caused me the confusion , should be named different then ;)
<ogra> file a bug, probably the kernel team agrees ;)
<hagisbasheruk> :)
<hagisbasheruk> ohh bye the way , now that i love this umpc image feel free to use me for testing on the Acer aspire one a150
<hagisbasheruk> its great that i have only found one bug , brightness applet doesn't work for me and keeps focus
<hagisbasheruk> filed my first ubuntu bug : https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/303998
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 303998 in ubuntu-mobile "brightness applet doesn't work on Acer Aspire One A150 , applet freeze and holds focus so have to kill X server " [Undecided,New]
<hagisbasheruk> forgot to check if bug was still there after all the updates , it is still present
<hagisbasheruk> anyway to make the navbar in the midbrowser smaller , i am in the about:config now
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-12-02
<hagisbasheruk> good morning 
<hagisbasheruk> Alastair_, any luck ?
<Alastair_> yea
<Alastair_> just not with the touchscreen and touchpad :D
<hagisbasheruk> tell me how you got on then
<Alastair_> btw.
<Alastair_> http://ftp.kaist.ac.kr/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-backports-modules-2.6.27/
<Alastair_> easy fix for the wireless problem ^^
<Alastair_> just install the patch corresponding to your kernel version and architecture and voila... :D
<hagisbasheruk> remember when you do update to get latest linux-backports-modules-kernelNUMBER to go with new kernel
<hagisbasheruk> or you lose wifi again
<Alastair_> yea... the strange thing is that it said that i have this version in the repo, but there they have only 27-7 :s (i needed 27-10)
<Alastair_> anyway, it's working :D
<hagisbasheruk> i suggest you findout who wrote touchscreen driver to see if they can help configure it for your screen
<Alastair_> now if i can fix the touchpad at least i'll be happy :D
<Alastair_> nah, the touchscreen won't be an easy thing to fix
<Alastair_> it seems that the only hope so far is for penmount to release a driver...
<Alastair_> but the touchpad is another deal... there is no reason it shouldn't work otb :/
<hagisbasheruk> well , i had prob with touchscreen on my MobilePro 900c with Jlime Linux and Kristofer the kernel developer modded the driver for my machine :)
<hagisbasheruk> he made a debug kernel for me to take down co-ordinates from screen then modded the code just for my machine :)
<Alastair_> i think there is some sort of conflict between the touchpad and touchscreen over which one should control the pointer
<hagisbasheruk> ahh then just blacklist one of them :P
<Alastair_> how xD
<Alastair_> i prefer working touchpad over half-working touchscreen...at least for the moment
<FreeSoul> hi guys :D I've a couple of questions: does ubuntu mobile supports poulsbo chipset? what about marvell wifi? and why when i try it on my Benq MID S6 i don't have the gui as the one of the screenshot online?
<hagisbasheruk> sorry , i lost ability to type Alastair_ :/ hi FreeSoul brb , need a Pee
<Alastair_> are you sure you aren't mistaking netbookremix and mobile?
<Alastair_> :D
<FreeSoul> hagisbasheruk: nop, take your time :)
<Alastair_> nbr is the one with fancy gui
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: no, i downloaded the one from teh topic and the daily release of 17
<Alastair_> can you show me the screenshot xD
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: no :( it's just a list of applications with a top bar with home button, network and so on :)
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: can you give me the url of the one you mentioned?
<Alastair_> do you mean this one http://www.canonical.com/projects/ubuntu/nbr ?
<FreeSoul> ah no no, wait :)
<FreeSoul> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile
<hagisbasheruk> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/intrepid/release/ubuntu-8.10-umpc-i386.img for 7 to 10" screens
<FreeSoul> anyway Benq MID S6 is a mid, not a netbook, it has 4.8" screen and so on
<hagisbasheruk> so you want http://releases.ubuntu.com/intrepid/ubuntu-8.10-mid-lpia.img 
<FreeSoul> yeah i've installed exactly that :)
<FreeSoul> anyway i don't care a lot about gui... i need drivers to work :D
<hagisbasheruk> if you have done an install the look on your usb/flash device for.....
<hagisbasheruk> linux-backports-modules-2.6.27-7-generic_2.6.27-7.4_i386 in debs folder
<FreeSoul> uhmm no, i runned it as live from usb
<FreeSoul> what this file should do?
<hagisbasheruk> click on it to install , well thats if they put it on the mid image
<hagisbasheruk> adds missing driver modules
<FreeSoul> ah good!
<FreeSoul> i've tryed some modprobe from the live but with no success. It can only see the bluetooth :) no wifi, no 3g and so on.
<hagisbasheruk> i duno if its on the mid image though but it is on the umpc image
<FreeSoul> also the switch on/off is not working
<FreeSoul> i see
<Alastair_> btw. hagisbasheruk does your integrated mic work ?
<Alastair_> i can't get mine to work in apps :s
 * hagisbasheruk is new to ubuntu-mobile and ubuntu in general but i am sure ogra or some of the other devs can help if you have probs
<hagisbasheruk> i duno Alastair_ 
<FreeSoul> lol, benq mid comes with integrated mic and no software to use it
<Alastair_> skype ? :D
<hagisbasheruk> so is the integrated mice the mic or frontmic in the mixer ?
<Alastair_> or the voice recorder that comes with ubuntu
<Alastair_> frontmic...
<Alastair_> at least for me
<FreeSoul> yeah... tryed but there are two problems: no way to make skype work with the sound card and at midinux they didn't set sw keyboard as input for X
<Alastair_> easy and fast test to see if it works at all - boost it to the max and if there is echo - it's working xD
<Alastair_> btw. the cam is working too... and for my surprise it's recording at 1280x1024, under vista the max was 640x480 ^^
<hagisbasheruk> try some of the sound fixes on that aspire page i linked you to yesterday
<hagisbasheruk> ooohh :)
<FreeSoul> hagisbasheruk: where is the deb directory supposed to be?
<hagisbasheruk> "/deb/ on /dev/your_device"
<Alastair_> hm..
<Alastair_> the sound system is working just fine, the problem is i can't tell skype or the other programs to use the frontmic as source :s
<Alastair_> tried alsa&pulse from the sound settings, nothing works :/
<hagisbasheruk> thats why i said see soun fix 
<hagisbasheruk> plug your device into a pc and you will see it FreeSoul 
<FreeSoul> hagisbasheruk: my mid has just one mini usb port. On that i've the usb flash driver with ubuntu live... what else can i don? i'm in / and looking for a deb directory
<hagisbasheruk> i never saw it until i did install as i couldn't access my /dev/sdb usb device as it was in use via the live image
<hagisbasheruk> type mount to see whats mounted
<hagisbasheruk> brb , need power cord from downstairs
<Alastair_> FreeSoul in the flashdrive's root dir there should be deb dir
<Alastair_> but i'm not sure if there is such a dir in the lpia image
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: /deb/sdb is mounted as /cdrom and there no deb directory in it. I've casper, preseed, boot.msg, initrd.img, ldlinux.sys syslinux.cfg
<FreeSoul> yep, i'm running lpia
<Alastair_> yeah... no backports for you then :/
<FreeSoul> yeah :)
<Alastair_> what's the model of the wifi chipset ?
<FreeSoul> damn i've the damn sensation i'll must use this stupid Midinux still for lot of time....
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: it should be a marvell wifi
<FreeSoul> i need to reboot mid to find it out
<FreeSoul> rebooting in midinux :)
<FreeSoul> anyway, i'd like to know why they did such a mess at Midinux
<Alastair_> http://www.google.bg/search?hl=bg&q=ubuntu+lpia+marvell&btnG=%D0%A2%D1%8A%D1%80%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5&meta=
<Alastair_> at least you're not alone xD
<FreeSoul> yes.... but really, it was lot lot of time that i didn't saw anything so bad designed
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: marvell 8686_v9
<hagisbasheruk> mabey you can perswade someone to add your driver to the mid image ;) if you cannot get the linux-backports-modules file on your device
<FreeSoul> hagisbasheruk: i really dunno who to write to. I've managed to contact also benq mid s6 product manager!
<Alastair_> hagisbasheruk, he is using different architecture, there's no backports package for him :D
<FreeSoul> i've also drivers source code that are in Midinux
<hagisbasheruk> what cpu does it have ?
<FreeSoul> hagisbasheruk: atom 800MHz
<Alastair_> atom :?
<FreeSoul> intel atom
<Alastair_> weren't the atoms i386
<hagisbasheruk> so linux-backports-modules is what he needs
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: yes, it's a damn x86 :)
<Alastair_> try this
<Alastair_> http://ftp.kaist.ac.kr/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-backports-modules-2.6.27/linux-backports-modules-2.6.27-10-generic_2.6.27-10.8_i386.deb
<FreeSoul> it's Intel Atom Z500
<Alastair_> i thought it was with some kind of xscale
<hagisbasheruk> download the file to your devices memory / boot ubuntu mid and mount your memory device and install file
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: oh, no, please no :)
<FreeSoul> hagisbasheruk: ok man :)
<Alastair_> well, if it's x86 the file from the link must work...
<Alastair_> hm... btw. w8
<Alastair_> what's your kernel's version xD
<Alastair_> this package is for 2.6.27-10...
<FreeSoul> 2.6.22.18-2
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: of course it will use kernel from ubuntu live that is 2.6.27
<hagisbasheruk> nice device bye the way :)
<FreeSoul> hagisbasheruk: yes, nice device, damn horrible software
<FreeSoul> or, better, worst "linux" (yes, they call it linux) system ever
<Alastair_> http://ftp.kaist.ac.kr/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-backports-modules-2.6.22/
<Alastair_> i can't find 2.6.22-18 :s
<hagisbasheruk> uname -r in your terminal FreeSoul to determine ubuntu kernel
<hagisbasheruk> you need the right file to go with it
<FreeSoul> hagisbasheruk: now i'm running midinux... to download the deb file, it's 2.6.22.18-2
<FreeSoul> after reboot i'll use lpia kernel that is 2.6.27
<hagisbasheruk> ahh :) so you need one from http://ftp.kaist.ac.kr/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-backports-modules-2.6.27/
<Alastair_> i think the i386 package won't install on it, but you can always try xD
<FreeSoul> why should it not install? i hope it will not ask for dependecies
<hagisbasheruk> it should
<hagisbasheruk> install
<Alastair_> nope, at least it didn't ask me... but i think there is a reason they have two images (i386 and lpia xD )
<FreeSoul> lol
<FreeSoul> this will be one of last tests i'll do... next I'll take plane for China, go at Midinux headquartier and I'll kill everybody :D
<hagisbasheruk> lpia is Low Power Intel Architecture
<Alastair_> idk if they are different architectures tho xD
<Alastair_> maybe i'm just thinking too much xD
<hagisbasheruk> linux-backports-modules-2.6.27-7-generic_2.6.27-7.4_i386 in debs folder , its i386
<FreeSoul> damn i've downloaded 2.6.27-10_i386!
<FreeSoul> ok i'm booting ubuntu... let's see
<Alastair_> that's why i told you to watch out for the version
<hagisbasheruk> same but one is compiled with flags for power saving stuff for atom
<Alastair_> if you haven't updated the installation it probably uses 2.6.27-7
<Alastair_> hmmm
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: i'm booting from live... i check the kernel version, i try to install -10 and if it fails i go back to midinux, download -7 and repeat the step
<hagisbasheruk> FreeSoul, just uname -r in terminal first to see what kernel you have
<FreeSoul> hagisbasheruk: yes yes i know, i'm sysadmin :)
<hagisbasheruk> the pic same as for modules
<hagisbasheruk> ok :P
<FreeSoul> damn :) it's 2.6.27-4 :)
<FreeSoul> ok i try to install -10 anyway :)
<Alastair_> don't do stupid things xD
<FreeSoul> lol
<hagisbasheruk> wait ill get you file
<Alastair_> http://ftp.kaist.ac.kr/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-backports-modules-2.6.27/linux-headers-lbm-2.6.27-7-server_2.6.27-7.4_i386.deb
<Alastair_> 27-7.4 or 27-4 ?
<FreeSoul> 2.6.27-4
<Alastair_> no backports for that...
<Alastair_> and i gave you the wrong link anyway xD
<Alastair_> you don't need server headers xD
<FreeSoul> just to know... i'm not a ubuntu/debian user. to install a from a local package? apt-get install file.deb?
<Alastair_> nope, just doubleckick it
<Alastair_> installing from terminal involves dpkg, not apt-get
<FreeSoul> here it says: packages list... done, building dependecy tre... done, could not file file bla bla.deb
<FreeSoul> ok
<FreeSoul> just for fun, how to install from terminal?
<FreeSoul> dpkg ?
<Alastair_> dpkg --help :D
<FreeSoul> ok
<FreeSoul> damn! trying to install the -10 (ok don't worry about version) it says that kernel arch is lpia, not i386!
<FreeSoul> brb
<hagisbasheruk> ahh ...
<FreeSoul> back :)
<hagisbasheruk> google is not my friend today , i am too sleepy
<FreeSoul> so with the arch problem may be a huge one
<hagisbasheruk> nah , just idle her till devs wake
<hagisbasheruk> here*
<FreeSoul> auihaiuhaiuhaiuhaiuah how not :)
<FreeSoul> i'm sure they will magically switch on on their own
<hagisbasheruk> while you wait you might like to read , very good reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekintrepid/UMPC
<FreeSoul> hagisbasheruk: yep but this umpc related
<FreeSoul> am i wrogn?
<hagisbasheruk> still give insite into whats happening 
<FreeSoul> i can tell you also a nice new.... it's happening that intel is not releasing public updated drivers for this devices... and consider that the drivers inside Midinux are written by intel 
<FreeSoul> wasn't mandriva making something for mids? am i wrong? I really hope not be forced to use mandriva :) but it's for sure, better then midinux :P
<hagisbasheruk> brb 10 mins need cuppa and toast
<Alastair_> http://www.umpcportal.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3912&start=15
<Alastair_> btw. for keyboard you can try cellwriter
<Alastair_> virtual kb for touchscreen devices, it's included in the umpc version
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: it's me the TDFS there, i wrote the review :)
<hagisbasheruk> :)
<hagisbasheruk> no bread left , i am not going out in that snow , settled for a couple of small pork pies for breakfast :)
<FreeSoul> :P
<Alastair_> aw, i'm making crÃ¨me caramel for lunch xD
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: :)
<hagisbasheruk> mmm...
<FreeSoul> when is it planned next mid release?
<Alastair_> april 2009...
<FreeSoul> ahahhahahahaa
<FreeSoul> 5 months!
<Alastair_> but maybe they'll release beta/alpha before that
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: yeah i regurarly try the daily build
<hagisbasheruk> yup 9.04 , ie 2009 04 month
<FreeSoul> i'm quite sure Benq will give still no updates... even if they are promising.... who wanna bet? :)
<Alastair_> most manufacturers tend to do that :/
<FreeSoul> i think they are just damn stupids!
<FreeSoul> a device without drivers... what the hell do they think user will buy it for?? to see in switched off on the desk?
<Alastair_> as soon as they reap the initial profit they gradually leave the support for their devices lying in the dust xD
<FreeSoul>  Alastair_i think i'm one of the poor stupid dreamers with hope in mid devices...
<Alastair_> yea, i hope they drag more attention to them, but we'll see
<FreeSoul> yep...
<Alastair_> i even considered to buy nokia n810 or the new giga with 7" screen
<FreeSoul> anyway i think i'll never buy anything from benq again
<Alastair_> cuz the netbook ain't that easy to use while on foot :D
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: n810 is nice but with small screen resolution... an all 7"+ staff can't fit in your pocket
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: yep, you can't bring it anywhere
<Alastair_> nah, i take it everywhere with me and it's pretty usefull, just not comfortable to use while walking on the street
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: hahah
<Alastair_> it's tablet, not regular one ;)
<FreeSoul> uh, much better
<FreeSoul> with linux?
<hagisbasheruk> ARM are getting in on the netbooks with ubuntu suporting them , i look forward to a netbook from them that will last all day on 1 charge
<Alastair_> untill yesterday it was with vista
<FreeSoul> Alastair_: now? ubuntu?
<Alastair_> yea
<FreeSoul> nice :)
<Alastair_> still has some problems, but i hope they'll be fixed soon
<hagisbasheruk> Alastair_, do you still have vista on it olso ?
<FreeSoul> i damn need an os for my mid....
<Alastair_> nope, the vista is gone xD
<Alastair_> why don't you start a thread in the forums
<Alastair_> maybe someone'll help you there...
<hagisbasheruk> i really didn't like vista , i tried it on my Acer Aspire One A150 , ran great but it sux as an OS , Mac OSX86 is great on it though :)
<Alastair_> i don't like it either, but i can't remove it from my main pc yet :/
<Alastair_> the day valve ports their source engine to linux i'll never touch windows again ^^
<hagisbasheruk> my misses now has my pc since i got the AAO , she has XP Media Center Edition
<FreeSoul> by guys, c ya! thanks for helping me
<FreeSoul> have a nice day
<hagisbasheruk> cya
<Alastair_> later.. :D
<hagisbasheruk> u 2
<FreeSoul> :)
<Alastair_> i made a 2nd pc for that purpose :p
<Alastair_> the main rig is mine and mine alone :D
<hagisbasheruk> i just share files/drives on the network so that gives me access to my movies and music etc without having to have them on my netbook :)
<hagisbasheruk> great for installing unreal tournament etc in linux
<hagisbasheruk> plus netbook has no cdrom drive
<hagisbasheruk> quake3 runs great on this :)
<hagisbasheruk> i was very surprised
<Alastair_> nah, i'm more addicted gamer...
<Alastair_> that's why i keep the windows installation :/
<Alastair_> but if they release some of my favourite games on linux i'll definitely move forever
<hagisbasheruk> i have ps3/xbox360/wii/ds/gizmondo for that
<Alastair_> i had ps3 and x360, it's just not the same :/
<Alastair_> on top of that after the thousands of euro spent on the pc i don't want it to be just a home cinema ^^
<hagisbasheruk> virtualbox is very good , well on my pc anyway , q3 ran great, never tried crysis though
<Alastair_> yea about that...
<Alastair_> what's the deal ?
<Alastair_> does it bring native performance in the games or... ?
<Alastair_> never quite understood the concept.. :s
<hagisbasheruk> install it and then install a os to run on it then u have windows on linux
<hagisbasheruk> near native speed now
<Alastair_> interesting
<hagisbasheruk> so should run everything fine :)
<Alastair_> after my new drive arrives i'll try it xD
<hagisbasheruk> what cpu u got ?
<Alastair_> q6600 @ 4.1g
<Alastair_> it's running at 3.6 most of the time tho...
<Alastair_> way too much heat and wasted electricity otherwise xD
<hagisbasheruk> ahh so that will be great with vbox
<Alastair_> what about the video ?
<hagisbasheruk> kill windows on your pc
<hagisbasheruk> its fine
<Alastair_> i mean how does it work... do i have to install drivers in the guest os or something ?
<hagisbasheruk> i must try virtual box on this :) todAY
<Alastair_> i can't... i deleted the ubuntu cuz i ran out of space... i purchased a new hdd but it won't be here for a few more days...
<hagisbasheruk> install it , run it ,make virtual drive, install XP , Vista or Linux, install games , smile :)
<hagisbasheruk> brb
<Alastair_> i wish i was in the US :/
<hagisbasheruk> why
<Alastair_> we have to wait so much time to get exotic hardware here... not to speak about the price -.-
<hagisbasheruk> i buy straight from hong kong / china mostly now
<Alastair_> i buy from germany... mostly... but the shipping is so damn slow...
<hagisbasheruk> yes , 2 weeks from hongkong/china
<Alastair_> where are you ?
<hagisbasheruk> still in bed
<hagisbasheruk> :) i am on holiday
<hagisbasheruk> snow outside
<hagisbasheruk> Scotland :P
<Alastair_> ^^
<Alastair_> well, china is in another continent xD
<Alastair_> but germany is some 1500km from me...
<Alastair_> there's no logic why i have to wait 2 or more weeks for a simple lightweight package :/
<hagisbasheruk> i would have that in 1-2 days here in the UK
<Alastair_> this is some glitch that happened when DHL transfered their shipping service to the national postal service
<Alastair_> before that my packages arrived in max 3-4 days
<Alastair_> doesn't matter anyway... if it doesn't come soon i'll go buy HD103UJ...
<Alastair_> at least they can be found on our market :s
<Alastair_> and are extremely cheap ^^
<hagisbasheruk> back l8a , got housework to do
<filipegarcia> how can i record the mobile usb image in a cd?
<filipegarcia> i try but it doesn't boot
<hagisbasheruk> it is a disk image dd if=imagename.img of=/dev/usbdevicename
<filipegarcia> yes i know, but i have to install in a old pc that doesn't support usb boot
<hagisbasheruk> convert img to a bootable iso and burn
<filipegarcia> i try that also but then the cd doesn't boot
<hagisbasheruk> what os is o the pc now ?
<hagisbasheruk> filipegarcia, ?
<filipegarcia> xp
<hagisbasheruk> okay do you have usb ?
<filipegarcia> yes
<hagisbasheruk> and usb flash card ?
<filipegarcia> yes
<hagisbasheruk> update the bios of the old pc to get usb boot option
<hagisbasheruk> or download puppy linux live cd and burn that and boot into puppy with image file on the usb flash
<filipegarcia> ok, thanks 
<hagisbasheruk> mount your hdd and usb , move image to hdd and then dd if=image.img of=/dev/sdb or whatever your usb will be
<hagisbasheruk> ohh that still wont help
<filipegarcia> because it wont boot also 
<filipegarcia> i guess the update bios would be the better choice 
<filipegarcia> but it's lot of work also
<hagisbasheruk> you need magic iso run that in XP and make iso from img
<filipegarcia> but i can record the img to the cd 
<hagisbasheruk> try magic iso and make cd bootable
<hagisbasheruk> brb
<filipegarcia> ok
<hagisbasheruk> back
<haggis-AAO-umpc> hi Alastair 
<Alastair> hi
<Alastair> :D
<haggis-AAO-umpc> any progress ??
<Alastair> nah, i just got back, haven't played with it...
<Alastair> btw.
<haggis-AAO-umpc> i have been tweeking my video and got sdcard readers working here
<Alastair> on the vurtiabox forums i saw some posts that it doesn't support direct3d, only directdraw... how do you play 3d games o_O
<haggis-AAO-umpc> ohh .... mabey i played them in wine
<Alastair> hmm.. ? what tweaking xD i thought the intel driver does all the work
<Alastair> btw. my cardreader works otb :s
<haggis-AAO-umpc> http://www.winehq.org/
<Alastair> yesterday i tested it with my photo's card...
<haggis-AAO-umpc> :)
<haggis-AAO-umpc> do the tweeks from that acer aspire one link and you gain some FPS
<haggis-AAO-umpc> in GL screensavers are 2 times as fast
<Alastair> wine works, but it's far from a solution :/
<Alastair> i played hl1:source hl2 and it's episodes through wine, but it's just not the same as native environment...
<haggis-AAO-umpc> i am sure there was a plugin for virtualbox that gave 3d acceleration
<Alastair> and i hear l4d is even worse :/
<Alastair> does your syndaemon work ?
<Alastair> mine says i'm missing shmconfig or something
<haggis-AAO-umpc> yup
<Alastair> yup it works, or yup you're missing shmconfig too xD
<haggis-AAO-umpc> duno , how to test
<Alastair> open terminal and type syndaemon
<haggis-AAO-umpc> yup , it works
<Alastair> can you post me your xorg.conf in private ?
<haggis-AAO-umpc> i see enable and dissable when i type and move the pad
<haggis-AAO-umpc>  sudo syndaemon
<haggis-AAO-umpc> 2 secs
<Alastair> mine says "Can't access shared memory area. SHMConfig disabled?"
<Alastair> probably that's why my touchpad doesn't work
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-12-03
<haggis-AAO-umpc> added syndemon to /etc/rc.local
<haggis-AAO-umpc> :)
<haggis-AAO-umpc> If this is an issue for you, the touchpad can be configured without enabling SHMConfig by placing the desired options in a HAL fdi file and rebooting.  thats handy for u Alastair 
<hagisbasheruk>                                                                                                                                                                                   .
<hagisbasheruk>  hi merriam ::)
<hagisbasheruk>  well did it work Alastair ?
<hagisbasheruk> gggggggeeeeeeeeeeeeeettttttttttting laggggggg
<hagisbasheruk> brb
<hagisbasheruk> back , lag stoped
<Alastair> nah
<Alastair> nothing happened :(
<Alastair> how can i check if the synaptics driver is even loaded ?
<hagisbasheruk> lsmod
<Alastair> well, either i'm blind or i can't see anything remote connected to it xD
<Alastair> it seems the driver isn't loaded :s
<hagisbasheruk> modprobe it
<hagisbasheruk> add it to /etc/modules
<Alastair> modprobe what... synaptics doesn't work
<hagisbasheruk> ohh it doesn't 
<hagisbasheruk> what device do u have again
<Alastair> M912M
<hagisbasheruk> what does xinput list give you in erminal ?
<hagisbasheruk> +t
<hagisbasheruk> i have solution for your touchscreen Alastair https://answers.launchpad.net/netbook-remix/+question/44781
<Alastair> this is my xinput list
<hagisbasheruk> ohh lol
<hagisbasheruk> send again
<Alastair> lol
<Alastair> there's info on my touchpad too on that site xD
<hagisbasheruk> driver defenetly not loaded
<hagisbasheruk> I've just got the touchpad working on my M912M. The solution is simply to pass the option "i8042.noloop" to the kernel when booting. (Edit the root=vmlinuz line in the grub menu to add it). LOL
<Alastair> i'll try this now
<Alastair> i just write this at the end of the line or what ?
<hagisbasheruk> yup
<Alastair> LOL
<Alastair> it's alive
<Alastair> omg, thank you so much :D
<hagisbasheruk> :)
<hagisbasheruk> #---------------------------------------------- taken from menu.lst file
<hagisbasheruk> title Ubuntu 8.04.1, Hardy Heron
<hagisbasheruk> root (hd0,5)
<hagisbasheruk> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.24-21-generic root=UUID=c09ba635-5bf4-4eb1-be04-7ae8e61dc758 ro quiet vga=773 splash -- i8042.noloop
<hagisbasheruk> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-21-generic
<hagisbasheruk> quiet
<hagisbasheruk> #----------------------------------------------- taken from xorg.conf file
<hagisbasheruk> Section "InputDevice"
<hagisbasheruk>         Identifier "Configured Mouse"
<hagisbasheruk>         Driver "mouse"
<hagisbasheruk>         Option "CorePointer"
<hagisbasheruk>         Option "/dev/input/mice"
<hagisbasheruk>         Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2"
<hagisbasheruk>         Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
<hagisbasheruk>         Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true"
<hagisbasheruk> EndSection
<hagisbasheruk> from that page
<Alastair> ok...so now only the touchscreen issue is left on the table
<hagisbasheruk> brb got to change bedding 
<hagisbasheruk> fix that from new driver given
<hagisbasheruk> on link
<Alastair> that driver doesn't work with intrepid
<hagisbasheruk> forgetthat ill change bedding in the morning , cant be bothered getting up now :)
<Alastair> nvm... the touchpad is enough for now :D
<hagisbasheruk> http://www.penmount.com.tw/Download/Driver/PenMount/gpm-1.20.1-penmount.tar  build your own !!
<hagisbasheruk> :)
<hagisbasheruk> make
<hagisbasheruk> sudo make install :)
<hagisbasheruk> the modprobe it
<hagisbasheruk> thenP
<hagisbasheruk> but that means you'll need to build it for every new kernel update though
<Alastair> that doesn't work either xD the same error as the other driver
<Alastair> i'll just have to wait 'till they add support in the calibration tool, or for penmount's driver
<Alastair> moreover it is working at least partially... for the rest i'll use the pad :D
<hagisbasheruk> :)
<Alastair> thank you for finding that link xD
<hagisbasheruk> np 
<hagisbasheruk> had my googling head on tonight :)
<Alastair> i searched google for hours, but never imagined the solution will be in the netbook-remix entry on launchpad...
<hagisbasheruk> i just googled gigabyte m912m touchpad :)
<Alastair> lol
<Alastair> i tried many combinations, and every one of them involved ubuntu xD
<hagisbasheruk> and was the 4th entry
<Alastair> sometimes the simplest solution is right infront of your eyes but you can't see it ^^
<Alastair> btw.
<Alastair> is this permanent or will i have to enter it every time ?
<hagisbasheruk> that is what made me click .....
<hagisbasheruk> I've just got the touchpad working on my M912M. ... the ps/2 mouse port on the motherboard and that has know problems in linux with kernels after 2.6.10. ...
<hagisbasheruk> :)
<hagisbasheruk> perm
<hagisbasheruk> you did edit menu.1st ?
<hagisbasheruk> or did you just edit grub on bootup ?
<Alastair> grub
<Alastair> btw. the scrolling and tapping is working too...
<Alastair> and much better than under windows i might add...
<hagisbasheruk> edit your /boot/menu.1st
<hagisbasheruk> then it will be perm
<hagisbasheruk> edit your /boot/grub/menu.1st even
<Alastair> thanks
<Alastair> did you notice any real improvement after tweaking the video ?
<hagisbasheruk> faster GL
<Alastair> how much fps do you get on glxgears ?
<hagisbasheruk> 2 sec i'll download
<Alastair> no need it is already installed :D
<Alastair> just type glxgears in terminal...
<hagisbasheruk> lol
<Alastair> hm... i see ~300fps improvement
<hagisbasheruk> 575 frames in 5.0 seconds = 114.817 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 577 frames in 5.0 seconds = 115.378 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 3254 frames in 5.0 seconds = 650.771 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 3235 frames in 5.0 seconds = 646.989 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 3432 frames in 5.0 seconds = 686.218 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 3117 frames in 5.0 seconds = 623.283 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 3340 frames in 5.0 seconds = 667.988 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 1166 frames in 5.0 seconds = 232.789 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 520 frames in 5.0 seconds = 103.911 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 1007 frames in 5.0 seconds = 201.195 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 494 frames in 5.0 seconds = 98.491 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 568 frames in 5.0 seconds = 113.442 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 1242 frames in 5.0 seconds = 248.219 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 459 frames in 5.0 seconds = 91.722 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 646 frames in 5.0 seconds = 129.200 FPS
<hagisbasheruk> 3212 frames in 5.0 seconds = 642.354 FPS
<Alastair> lol lol stop xD
<Alastair> definitely works.... b4 this i got ~300fps
<Alastair> now it's almost double
<hagisbasheruk> :)
<Alastair> on my main pc i get around 13000 xD
<hagisbasheruk> lol
<Alastair> and that was with grossly underclocked video...
<hagisbasheruk> i wonder if the umpc will get a lpia kernel at some point
<hagisbasheruk> battery life sucks
<Alastair> i have around 2hrs with wifi
<hagisbasheruk> me 2
<Alastair> my battery sux tho...
<Alastair> 4500mah
<Alastair> afaik the acer has bigger battery
<Alastair> have you tried the lpia image ?
<hagisbasheruk> 2200mAh
<Alastair> theoretically if it's x86 it should boot on a normal pc ..
<hagisbasheruk> yes on netbook remix
<Alastair> :s
<Alastair> my bat has twice the capacity yet survives for the same amount of time... wtf
<hagisbasheruk> my bios acpi or what ever it is must be better
<Alastair> nah
<Alastair> no matter how better it is this shouldn't be happening :s
<hagisbasheruk> :P
<Alastair> i guess the ssd is more economical, but even so ....
<hagisbasheruk> oh i did power saving mods to sdd
<hagisbasheruk> i have hdd version of ASPIRE ONE
<hagisbasheruk> oops
<hagisbasheruk> script polls sd reader to see if card is present and if not it powers it down
<hagisbasheruk> i will get bigger bat after new year sometime
<Alastair> hm...dunno...
<Alastair> i've seen external battery packs...
<hagisbasheruk> cheep?
<Alastair> but they cost almost as new pc ....
<hagisbasheruk> lol , sod that
<hagisbasheruk> i found a nice way to save bookmarks with midbrowser, grab icon in adrressbar and put on top taskbar
<hagisbasheruk> then move to desktop later
<Alastair> i removed the midbrowser asap... i'm too addicted to the classical firefox
<hagisbasheruk> :)
<hagisbasheruk> i guess you can always use F11
<hagisbasheruk> To decrease boot time, activate concurrency bootup:  sudo gedit /etc/init.d/rc  and replace the line:
<hagisbasheruk>     * CONCURRENCY=none 
<hagisbasheruk> with
<hagisbasheruk>     * CONCURRENCY=shell 
<hagisbasheruk> brb going to test that now
<hagisbasheruk> never noticed any difference , mabey on next boot
<Alastair> omg... what the heck...
<Alastair> did you see the size of gta4 x_x
<Alastair> 2 dual-layer dvds ...
<hagisbasheruk> lol
<hagisbasheruk> no blue ray :)
<Alastair> that standart was doomed from the beginning
<Alastair> we want holographic disks xD
<hagisbasheruk> there is a mic fix coming http://git.alsa-project.org/?p=alsa-kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=8ef355da64ff087b6f26c4c28a14753861e83e4b
<hagisbasheruk> available in kernel 2.6.28-rc2
<Alastair> hm...
<Alastair> i reckon 9.04 will be the distro for this machines...
<Alastair> they came out too late for intrepid devs to include support for them :/
<hagisbasheruk> sudo update-manager -d and see a surprise
<Alastair> the wireless link is down, i can't xD
<hagisbasheruk>  Welcome to Ubuntu 9.04 'Jaunty Jackalope' =
<hagisbasheruk> *** THIS IS A DEVELOPMENT RELEASE ***
<hagisbasheruk> The Ubuntu team is proud to announce Ubuntu 9.04 'Jaunty Jackalope'.
<Alastair> yea, i know, they released the alpha some time ago...
<hagisbasheruk> i got to go for it , lets see what breaks
<Alastair> nothing yet
<Alastair> just incremental updates over intrepid...wait for the beta
<hagisbasheruk> 2 l8
<hagisbasheruk> i guess i can just fill in bugs for a while until everything is running great on the AAO
<hagisbasheruk> bed time , good night
<skotti_> Hello everyone
<skotti_> Any python-guru around?
<playya_> skotti_, just ask your question. maybe someone mght help you.
<skotti_> playya_: Thanks for the hint.
<skotti_> I'm trying to start an executable from within python using os.popen( os.P_NOWAIT , <program-file> )
<skotti_> I want the program to start (while i do a time.wait(X)) and then the pythin script executes a number of LDTP commands
<skotti_> But the process is not detached, popen blocks further execution
<skotti_> This is probably because a pipe is opened, but i don't need it.
<playya_> skotti_, if you don't need the pipes you might use os.system
<skotti_> playya_: I tried that but the python script just stops
<skotti_> The program (be it gedit for convenience) opens and python waits for the process to end
<playya_> could you paste some code?
<skotti_> yep
<skotti_> program = os.path.join( ' ','usr','bin','gedit' )
<skotti_> print "hello"
<skotti_> os.system( program )
<skotti_> print "hello again"
<skotti_> [...]
<skotti_> the second print is executed only if i manually close gedit
<skotti_> Alternativly i tried os.spawnl( os.P_NOWAIT, program ) which - to my surprise - does not start gedit but continues ok...
<playya_> tried to remoce the os.P_NOWAIT ?
<playya_> works for me
<skotti_> Trying now...
<skotti_> os.spawnl() takes at least 2 arguments
<playya_> os.popen( program )
<playya_> <open file ' /usr/bin/gedit', mode 'r' at 0x7fa18caf6d50>
<skotti_> I get "No spawning" as message.
<skotti_> And then it waits for me to close gedit
<hagisbasheruk> ogra, you might want to put a not on the webpage about after you install the linux-backports-modules from /deb/ folder , after you do an update before you reboot , sudo apt-get install linux-backports-modules-intrepid-generic ,mabey you could word it better than me and i hope you understand what i mean
<hagisbasheruk> good morning everyone
<hagisbasheruk> not=note P
<hagisbasheruk> if you reboot without doing so you won't have the linux-backport-modules-2.6.27-9-generic so you lose wifi
<hagisbasheruk> as kernel gets updated
<skotti_> playya_: Tricky thing, i have to give up on that for now. Anyway, thanks for your help, i appreciate that very much.
<Alastair> the current kernel version is 2.6.27-10
<Alastair> but the backports version in the repos is older
<Alastair> so if you update you loose wifi anyway...
<hagisbasheruk> i have2.6.27-9-generic 
<hagisbasheruk> says my system is upto date
<hagisbasheruk> ohh distro upgrade went wrong , no intel driver for xorg
<hagisbasheruk> sso had to redo everything
<hagisbasheruk> oh and good morning Alastair playya_ skotti_ cprov and everyone else :)
<cprov> hagisbasheruk: morning.
<skotti_> Hi hagisbasheruk
<skotti_> playya_: Trivial solution to my popen-problem: assign the object.
<skotti_> f_obj = os.popen( somefile )
<playya_> good idea
<playya_> i only tested it in the python shell
<playya_> hi hagisbasheruk 
<hagisbasheruk> :)
<hagisbasheruk> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S01E19 - Love Letters - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2008/12/03/s01e19-love-letters/
<hagisbasheruk> podcast time :)
<Alastair> mornin...
<Alastair> hagisbasheruk, maybe it depends on which update server are you using...
<Alastair> i'm using the main server
<Alastair> and the latest kernel is 27-10 :D
<hagisbasheruk> ahh using uk servers here
<Alastair> lol
<Alastair> at last i feel good about my quad :D
<hagisbasheruk> you got a quad bike :P
<Alastair> ppl say gta4 is making very good use
<Alastair> (of the extra cores) xD
<hagisbasheruk> good , what video card/s u using
<Alastair> currently 7950GT :(
<hagisbasheruk> 8600GT here
<Alastair> i had 3870 x2
<Alastair> now i'm considering 9800gtx+ or 4850...
<Alastair> i should've tested the ati with ubuntu b4 i sold it :/
<hagisbasheruk> i am never upgrading the pc now i have given it to the misses
<Alastair> :s
<Alastair> dunno... i'll never give up the big screen... ^^
<Alastair> nor the processing power..
<Alastair> the notebook is for outside use only :D
<hagisbasheruk> brb
<Alastair> aw
<Alastair> love my ISP xD
<Alastair> the gigabit connection rulez
<hagisbasheruk> ??
<Alastair> 51MB/s download
<Alastair> from the local NAS
<Alastair> average speed 26,95 :p
<hagisbasheruk> whall !!
<Alastair> 7.04GB in under 3 minutes
<hagisbasheruk> i have 16 meg broad band , average 1.7Kb/s
<hagisbasheruk> Mb/s
<hagisbasheruk> even
<Alastair> yea, but wait for the shocker - i'm paying for thes goodness only 12.5 euro xD
<hagisbasheruk> can i get your isp here in uk :)
<Alastair> it is a branch of some international organisation afaik....maybe they have something in uk, dunno
<hagisbasheruk> how long have you had that type of speed ?
<Alastair> but the reason i'm getting such speeds is that both me and their NAS are connected to the same backbone fiber channel...
<Alastair> most of the users ain't that lucky
<hagisbasheruk> :)
<Alastair> lol
<Alastair> the second image averaged at 49MB/s xD
<hagisbasheruk> you should setup an ubuntu mirror :P
<Alastair> we already have one i think... and 2 more in bulgaria
<Alastair> idk if they completed it tho...
<Alastair> nah... they made debian and slack mirrors, the ubuntu one was cancelled
<hagisbasheruk> back la8 got stuff to do now
<NCommander> morning ogra 
<ogra> hey NCommander 
<NCommander> ogra, how goes it?
<ogra> cursing rpm 
<ogra> the autofoo stuff is a total mess
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> MID on x86/amd64 should be usable AFAIK
<NCommander> THere are a still a few hildon specific things broken (on my todo list of things to look over)
<NCommander> but it should just work I hope
<ogra> cool
<NCommander> We need to modify casper on mid however to work without an Ubuntu user :-)
<ogra> uh, why ? 
<ogra> the settings package should create one 
<NCommander> If you use ubiquity to install, you don't get one
<NCommander> I filed a bug about it
<crevette> hello
<crevette> superm1: hey, are you interested in sponsoring an upload of obex-data-server 0.4.2 ?
<superm1> crevette, for jaunty?
<crevette> superm1: yep, sorry
<superm1> crevette, have you tested to make sure that it still works with the rest of the bluez stuff (at least the functional stuff) already?
<crevette> superm1: I use it for weeks, it solvd the various we add with gnome-user-share
<crevette> had
<superm1> crevette, ah very good.  sure i can sponsor it then. do you have it published somewhere for me to grab?
<crevette> superm1: I'm trying to find a place and a way to host it because gvfs in jaunty seems broken for me
<superm1> crevette, PPA perhaps?
<crevette> I can host any file ?
<superm1> well it's a source package that gets sponsored, and even get a free test build so i dont have to run one here :)
<crevette> superm1: https://edge.launchpad.net/~bmillemathias/+archive
<crevette> let me rebuild it for jaunty
<crevette> as launchpad permit that
<superm1> crevette, i tried to build in my jaunty sbuild (amd64): http://pastebin.com/f2ab7c8a6
<superm1> so you'll need to sort out what's going on there
<crevette> okay
<crevette> it seems the package name has changed
<crevette> thanks for hte feedback, I was busy until now
<crevette> I was to push my package to ppa to test the build (I didn't build it for jaunty yet)
<crevette> superm1: I saw that debian/ changes was now handled in bzr, should I do something to commit files ?
<crevette> or provide you a patch ?
<superm1> oh yeah i forgot that we moved it to bzr.  yeah you should put together a bzr branch to merge or commit to yourself.
<superm1> i believe it's owned by ubuntu-dev
<crevette> yep it is
<crevette> superm1: I don't understand why the dput server (don't know how it is called) denies me to upload my package stating intrepid has already such package but my package is for jaunty ...
<crevette> this why I still not have uploaded it
<crevette> +is
 * Hobbsee hopes crevette is *not* a MOTU
<Hobbsee> oh good.  He isn't :)
 * Hobbsee sends him an email to answer the question
<persia> Hobbsee, ?
<Hobbsee> persia: the last question above
 * persia is still over a week behind on backscroll, and peeks ahead
<Hobbsee> persia: don't worry :)
<persia> Hobbsee, probably bluetooth-team PPA
<Hobbsee> persia: must be.  There's nowhere else he could dput to, that it would work, i think
<persia> Well, own-PPA, but yeah.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-12-04
<casao> hey, has anyone made a usb key for umpc w/ unetbootin under Windows?
<crevette> hey superm1 
<crevette> superm1, you can grab obex-data-server from https://edge.launchpad.net/~bmillemathias/+archive for sponsoring if you want, I can open a bug in lp if you need
<crevette> Hobbsee, around ? I've jsut seen your kind mail
<Hobbsee> crevette: yes
<Hobbsee> did you find it helpful?  :)
<crevette> yep
<crevette> but the pint is I am using jaunty
 * crevette is tired of its typo errors
<Hobbsee> that's a typo?  I thought that was just your longing for beer showing up...
<crevette> Hobbsee, I was just stating of "pint" instead of "point"
<crevette> ah :)
<Hobbsee> i know.  but a pint is a measurement of beer ;)
<crevette> yep
<crevette> :)
<crevette> we use this word in french too
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<crevette> so, my point was that I use Jaunty and I put jaunty in the changelog 
<crevette> I've already push a version of this package in my ppa but I deleted it afterward
<crevette> perhaps soyuz keeps an history 
<Hobbsee> crevette: did you use dch -i, not just dch, and have 2.10.39ubuntu2 of devscripts installed?
<Hobbsee> it does, you can't use the same version number
<crevette> Hobbsee, if I used dch only I incremented the version myself
<Hobbsee> crevette: ah.  that'd do it :)
<Hobbsee> seems to be working here just fine, so it had to be something local :)
<crevette> but anyway I succeed to upload my package after
<Hobbsee> \o/
<crevette> apprently it kept my deleted version in this its big book :)
<crevette> Hobbsee, you are welcome if you can upload it also :)
<crevette> https://edge.launchpad.net/~bmillemathias/+archive
<crevette> hey
<crevette> superm1: around .
<crevette> is someone can sponsor an upload of obex-data-server ?
<crevette> s/is//
<StevenK> crevette: I would suggest asking in #ubuntu-motu
<crevette> okay, I asked here because it is related to bluetooth, and superm1 told me he could do it yesterday
<crevette> StevenK: should I open a bug ?
<StevenK> crevette: Actually, that sounds like a plan
<crevette> StevenK: okay done
<StevenK> crevette: Also subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors, if you haven't already
<crevette> ah thanks a lot for the notice
<Don> Is there a wiki site on how to cross compile ubuntu-mobile from sources. the help pages on ubuntu,com ,talk about pre-built targets only.can anyone advise me on this?
<persia> Don, Why cross-compile?  Generally we do native builds of everything, and then just use the output of the buildds on target systems.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-12-05
<ogra> hrm, there isnt even an editor in the default install
 * ogra wants to take notes
<playya> ogra, not even vi?
<ogra> no terminal
<crevette> ogra: waht are you taking about 
<ogra> mo way to install software graphically either
<ogra> crevette: jax10
<ogra> the default preinstalled OS
<playya> ssh ?
<StevenK> No terminal
<ogra> nope
<ogra> no way to get to console at all
<ogra> no package/softgware install tool in the gui
<StevenK> Which irritates me greatly
<playya> it was a little bit trickey too on my eee
<ogra> yeah
<playya> k orgtk based?
<ogra> i dont want to reflash yet though
<ogra> moblin i think
<playya> ctr + alt + t or alt+f2
<ogra> no F KEYS
<playya> not a good device ;)
<ogra> hmm, no alt either i just notice
<ogra> the device is fine, the os is lacking
<ogra> StevenK: battery shows 60%
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-12-06
 * NCommander wonders why this channel keeps falling off his AJOIN
<heret1c> yo :)
<heret1c> trying to fish pix out of a nokia 6070 by serial USB. how? have gnokii/gammu etc.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-12-07
<alex_21> Hey all, I am new here. Does the mobile eddition work like the desktop?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-12-01
<Il__Matteo> hi
<Il__Matteo> i would like to try ubuntu on my mobile phone, since its os is bugged. device: hiphone a007 (iclone). installed os should be windows mobile
<Il__Matteo> can anybody help?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-12-03
<popey> what happens if someone has a hardy lpia install and wants to upgrade to lucid?
<popey> also, where can I get an lpia image to test this on virtualbox/testdrive/kvm/whatever
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-12-04
<rbelem> hi asac 
<asac> hi rbelem ;)
<asac> first
<asac> ;)
<rbelem> :-)
<asac> whats up?
<rbelem> asac, well i thinking in change the roadmap of ubuntu liquid
<asac> rbelem: sure. also if you want that spec to be changed/approved etc in any way
<asac> let me know
<rbelem> asac, ian and me talked about use plasma-mobile instead of hildon
<asac> thats moving towards qt?
<rbelem> asac, yep...
<asac> like what maemo does?
<asac> how much work would that be?
<rbelem> asac, maemo is moving for qt too in the next release
<asac> rbelem: right. thats why i wonder if that would mean packaging the latest stuff they are currently doing
<rbelem> asac, maybe we need to work more with plasma mobile code
<asac> rather than updating the old hildon stuff
<rbelem> asac, yep
<asac> rbelem: can you already estimate how many packages that would be?
<rbelem> asac, currently plasma-mobile is not packaged 
<rbelem> asac, maybe just plasma-mobile plasma-mobile-defaults
<rbelem> asac, and a different meta package 
<asac> where would all the other packages come from?
<asac> e.g. i would expect new maemo does quite some work on "new" packages
<asac> or dont you plan to get those in?
<rbelem> asac, well i can work to get these packages in
<asac> rbelem: would you mind writing up on some packages what getting a plasma-mobile etc. in a working state for lucid would involve?
<asac> e.g. maybe two variants: a) the small pitch: only essential bits get done ... and b) the full pitch: adds a bunch of goodies from the maemo effort?
<rbelem> asac, yes i will work to get plasma-mobile in a good state, because right now it is very initial
<asac> rbelem: what i mean: if we have a good wiki page we can better understand how much work is involved and if there is need to ask for help somewhere etc.
<asac> at least we could blog about it etc. and maybe attract someone willing to help etc.
<rbelem> asac, ah cool!
<asac> thats why i wondered if you could put up a spec that documents the plan for plasma-mobile
<rbelem> asac, i will update the liquid wiki with that
<asac> including: what packages would be involved and what needs to be newly packaged etc.
<asac> great
<asac> rbelem: if you have something ping me. i will review and see if we can make a community spec or something out of it to get this a real place on our "mobile" roadmap
<rbelem> asac, currently i'm writing the seeds to generate a proof of concept iso
<rbelem> asac, cool
<asac> rbelem: right. include all that in the document too etc.
<rbelem> thanks asac 
<rbelem> :-)
<asac> welcome.
<rbelem> hi asac, i made some changes to the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/UbuntuLiquid
<rbelem> asac, what do you think? I missed something? Is there anything you want to add?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-12-05
<Il__Matteo>  hi everybody! i'm on ubuntu 9.10 and lamely trying "chroot" in order to make Ubuntu mobile work. i'm following this procedure: http://paste.ubuntu.com/335055/plain/ . but, when i come up with the last step, console writes me back "chroot: cannot run command '/bin/bash'. No such file or directory". Can anybody help, please?
<Il__Matteo> hi! anybody here? :)
<rbelem> hi Il__Matteo 
<Il__Matteo> hi!!! i want to install ubuntu on my mobile phone, but can not find a clear step by step guide. the best i found is here: http://www.programmazione.it/index.php?entity=eitem&idItem=38367 - click bottom right link to access. And it's about ubuntu 7
<Il__Matteo> + i have problems with chroot command
<rbelem> Il__Matteo, which phone do you own?
<Il__Matteo> it's an iclone... cesim a007, i guess
<om26er> which type of mobile phones can ubuntu-mid be installed?
<Il__Matteo> rbelem, it's an iclone... cesim a007, i guess
<rbelem> Il__Matteo, i'm trying to find its specs :-)
<Il__Matteo> uh, thanks :Â°
<rbelem> Il__Matteo, i did not find useful information
<rbelem> Il__Matteo, if you find something ping me here
<rbelem> Il__Matteo, it will be a pleasure to help you hack this device
<Il__Matteo> :(
<Il__Matteo> thanks anyway!
<Il__Matteo> have a nice w.e.!
<Il__Matteo> bye
<rbelem> Il__Matteo, some info to help you go on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnFreeRunner
<Il__Matteo> ok, thanks! :)
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-12-06
<WaywardGeek_> Hi, guys.  I have a dumb idea for Netbook Remix I thought I'd test here:  A dynamically warping multi-touch virtual keyboard... http://billrocks.org
<WaywardGeek_> When you place 8 fingers down, a translucent virtual keyboard appears that is warped so that the home keys are under your fingers.  As you type, the keyboard adapts based on your touches.
<WaywardGeek_> IMO, it might be a wonderful interface for the next generation of ARM-based internet tablets.
<WaywardGeek_> Any thoughts?  I'd love to help or spearhead development of such a thing.
