#ubuntu-meeting 2005-05-12
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:dholbach] : Tue ?? ?? 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Wed ?? ??? 04:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<Alessio>  Wed 13 Apr 04:00 UTC Community Council ???
<dholbach> that's why i changed it
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-08
<dholbach> congratulations Lure!
<ogra> welcome Lure :)
<Seveas> nice, welcome aboard!
<Surak> Congrats, Lure
<Tonio_> welcome aboard Lure :)
<Seveas> Ju, you're up
<Ju> Hi !
<Ju> I'm Julien Rottenberg, I live in Los Angeles, and I'm currently seeking a job as a Network Administrator. I have been using Ubuntu since Warty and I'm the third ubuntu-fr administrator.
<Ju> I did some advocacy at the "Linux Expo" in Paris, at the "Fete de l'Huma", some wiki pages on the ubuntu-fr doc, and posts moderation on the french forum.
<Ju> My profile on Launchpad is https://launchpad.net/people/ju  -  Wiki : http://wiki.ubuntu.com/JulienRottenberg
<Seveas> Any ubuntu-fr members around to cheerlead?
<Yann2> Ju's doing a huge work in the Ubuntu-fr team, I think he's one of our activest members.
<Ju> thanx Yann2 ;-)
<Seveas> Yann2, good to hear
<Toadstool> Ju is a great member of the French Ubuntu team.
<Yann2> what to say more? his wiki page is quite long :)
<lucas> I'm not involved at all in ubuntu-fr, but looking from the outside, it seems Ju is doing a great work
<Gloubiboulga> I agree with Yann2 and Toadstool, Ju does a really great work in ubuntu-fr
<Seveas> Yann2, true, but testimonials from others are at least as important as a clear wikipage
<mako> is there anyone else here from ubuntu-fr
<eric_p> ju does a great job on ubuntu-fr
<eric_p> and he helped me setting up kubuntu-fr
<eric_p> almost all wiki pages have been updated once by ju
<skateinmars> I'm not too much involved in ubuntu-fr (just an irc op), but I can tell Ju is really doing a great job for the ubuntu-fr community
<elmo> looks fine to me based on wiki page
<Seveas> same here
<mako> yes
<mako> i think it's fine
<Kamion> no problem here, seems to be helping to run the ubuntu-fr locoteam so seems like a no-brainer
<Seveas> Welcome aboard ju!
<Bluekuja> Congrats Ju
<Ju> Great ! It's honor for me to be a Ubuntu member \o/ 
<Surak> Congrats tu!
<gnomefreak> congrats ju
<mdke> nice work Ju 
<Surak> s/tu/Ju
<Yann2> welcome Ju :)
<Ju> thx !
<Seveas> Perfect score so far, everyone's accepted
<Gloubiboulga> congrats Ju :)
<Seveas> sfllaw, you're up next
<sfllaw> Congrats!
<ogra> next one is a no brainer too i guess :)
<Toadstool> congrats Ju :)
<Seveas> ogra, well...
<sfllaw> ogra: Hey!  I resemble that comment.
<ogra> heh
<sfllaw> I'm Simon Law, from Montral, Canada.  I'm a new Canonical employee who's primary function is to improve QA in Ubuntu.  But I'm also a Debian developer and a free software developer.  
<sfllaw> Recently, I've been trying to build support for triaging bugs, which is something we're losing on.  I've written new articles under HelpingWithBugs, organised support on IRC, drummed up enthusiasm for HugDay, and have started triaging bugs myself.
<sfllaw> My future plans include building up community efforts in QA, especially with the BugSquad team.  I have a couple tools I want to write that will help debug and reproduce problems.  As well, I have some expertise in building automated test harnesses for Linux distributions, which should come in handy.
<sfllaw> s/who's/whose/
<sfllaw> Bah.
<Kamion> p.s. quality controller is the best job title ever
<elmo> haha
<Kamion> very thomas the tank engine
<mdke> lol
<Seveas> Big \o/ from me based on debian work and QA efforts and plans, -0 based on the fact that he's been active for not a too long period
<ogra> sfllaw, did an awesome job in the short time he's involved yet 
<mako> right, not too long a period in ubuntu but i am familiar with sfllaw's work in debian
<elmo> I think the fact that he has a contract takes care of ensuring the "sustained" part of the requirements
<ogra> s/awesome/unbelivable, incredibel awesome/s
<Kamion> Seveas: -0 noted, although on the flip-side we can expect employees to ... oh, what elmo aid
<Kamion> said
<sfllaw> mako only says this because I bought him a drink at Debconf 2.
<mako> elmo: welll, there's also visible world elsewhere in the free software community
<elmo> mako: right, that too
<mako> sfllaw: you bought me a drink at debconf?
<elmo> so anyway, +1 from me
<Kamion> oh wow you worked for maple, I used to use that at school
<ajmitch> and he's been active in debian for years now
<mako> sfllaw: i must have forget. you should do it again :)
<ogra> elmo, but i think what he did until now also counts a lot, dholbach can tell even more i think
<sfllaw> mkOf course.
<sfllaw> mako: Of course.
* Kamion is curious what PropterHoc might be
<dholbach> I'm very happy to work together with sfllaw on the Bug Front and knew him beforehand already. He's quick to understand, to plan and to envision and I think he'll help us to gain back ground :-)
<Seveas> If he doesn't, he'll have to buy eberyone drinks at Ubuntu French Kiss :) 
<ajmitch> Seveas: he'll do that anyway, won't he? :)
<Seveas> true 
<ogra> oh, is that the official name ? 
<dholbach> He triaged quite a bunch of bugs already and quickly got an overview over people and teams - apart from that he's very helpful in #ubuntu-bugs to new people.
<sfllaw> Seveas: And this will help us how?
<ompaul> ajmitch, no hes just buying for mako
<ogra> sfllaw, hey, this is the *community* council 
<sfllaw> Getting you all drunk?
<sfllaw> I suppose.
<ogra> its a major social thing to buy everyone in the distro team a drink at confs ;)
<Kamion> anyway, +1, know him from Debian and he's got off to a flying start
<mako> yes, sounds great
<mdke> welcome aboard sfllaw 
<Seveas> Awesome! Welcome aboard bughunter!
<Bluekuja> congrats sfllaw
<dholbach> ROCK ON!
<sfllaw> Thanks.
<ogra> YAY
* dholbach hugs sfllaw
* ogra hugs sfllaw 
<Seveas> GROUPHUG!
* sfllaw hugs dholbach.
<ogra> yay
* sfllaw hugs ogra.
<Seveas> Surak, you're next
<ajmitch> he's picked up on the hugging quickly as well..
* mvo congrats sfllaw
<Surak> I am Alexandre Otto Strube, from Brazil. the wikipage is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlexandreOttoStrube and launchpad is https://launchpad.net/people/surak
<Surak> right now, the plan is bug triage and hardware support. I'm intended to leave developers do their job, and help users with their bugs (several people just want to help, but don't know exactly how).
<Surak> I'm doing a lot of work by helping out users in irc, specially on #ubuntu-br .
<Surak> Actually working on a Ubuntu-based distribution for a brazilian computer manufacturer. We try to keep as close as ubuntu as possible, and give the most that we can back to ubuntu, in form of testing, bug reporting and translation to pt_BR.
<Surak> I've written a tutorial on how developers can change source code in Ubuntu/Debian, which lead to a video driver for breezy amd64 - a functional Via Unichrome (breezy-amd64 used vesa): http://www.surak.eti.br/linux/ubuntu/deb/xserver-xorg-driver-via-preview-amd64-6.8.2.deb
* ogra tries to hug 96 ppl, but notices his arms arent long enough
<Surak> for the future, as ubuntu gets more and more simple (to me, through learning), the plan is to help by adopting universe packages, and providing quality work on them.
<Surak> I would like to introduce someone which can talk a little bit more of me: Claudio Filho (filhocf), the Openoffice Brazil team leader, our upstream in openoffice translation :-) He started the MozBr and PgSQLBr projects also, and is an active collaborator on Debian/Debian-Br-CDD. Altough not a ubuntu member, someone I respect when the matter is open source. I did a lot of work with him before ubuntu, specially.
<Surak> Meyer and Licio can talk a little about my work also. KurtKraut is the #ubuntu-br ircop, and can talk also.
<filhocf> Hi.. 
<dholbach> Surak triaged some hundred desktop-bugs already, and I'm very grateful for what he did.
<licio> Surak is a hard colaborator of the bugTriage, translates and help in irc channel #ubuntu-br
<KurtKraut> Surak, you've forgot to mention that you're a colunist at http://planeta.ubuntubrasil.org
<dholbach> He has a good overview over what goes on upstream, knows which questions to ask, etc - he's very motivated.
<Surak> indeed!
<filhocf> about Surak, i know him some years, and your efforts to help in localization of OOo and Moz here is incredible
<Kamion> Surak and co. had a go at UbuntuExpress back in the breezy timeframe; we didn't end up using that code, but they made a decent effort
<filhocf> Surak helps in a help system called Rau-tu(how-to in brazilian speak) and is a big collaborator there
<ogra> and he's around pretty long already
<Kamion> he's been helping out a bit with ubiquity triage work more recently
<filhocf> in localization part, i think that is a big help to Ubuntu.
<elmo> looks fine to be based on wiki page + kamion's comments
<mako> wellwell, i appreciate that you're trying to work closely with ubuntu while working on your own derivative
<mako> i'd love if you document the things that have and haven't worked well as part of that process
<mako> but i'm happy with membership
<Surak> today, more work of mine is done in bug triage than in my own job, for desperation of my boss :-)
<Seveas> Surak, hehe 
<Seveas> 2 down, Kamion what's the verdict?
<Surak> but as we are porting our own derivative to dapper, its equally important that dapper is in shape
<zul> @schedule Ottawa
<zul> @schedule Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: Current meeting: Community Council | 03 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 03 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 16:00: Technical Board | 10 May 08:00: Edubuntu
<Kamion> I'm fine with Surak for membership, per the above
<ogra> zul, please, we're in a meeting :)
<Seveas> Ok, 3 down! Congratz Surak !
<Bluekuja> congrats surak
<zul> sorry..
<Seveas> btw: Who has launchpad duty today?
<ogra> conagrats Surak 
<Surak> thanks
* dholbach hugs Surak
<licio> congrats Surak , welcome 
<camilotelles> congrats Surak!
<Surak> i'm shaking :-)
<Meyer> congrats, Surak 
<KurtKraut> Surak, well done boy ;D
<mdke> well done Surak 
<filhocf> congrats Surak, and congrats to Team too.
<mako> gary coady?
<Seveas> iegary, you're up
<Kamion> I'd forgotten about launchpad duty - I'll do it
<iegary> Hi, I'm Gary Coady, I've been administering Debian systems since '97, so have a good bit of experience with Debian-ish systems. Updated a third party package (aiccu) with debconf support and general Ubuntu integration. Have been working doing C programming for the last few years. A year of tech support (receiving, fixing core dumps etc.) as well.
<iegary> I've been helping out with bug triage and fixing in Launchpad since March (you can find me in #ubuntu-bugs and #ubuntu-desktop), and have provided a good number of patches. I think I've helped somewhat in improving the quality of Dapper when it releases, and look forward to helping further with Ubuntu in the future. My wiki page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GaryCoady provides a few more details.
<Seveas> Kamion, cool
<mako> Kamion: you on it?
<Kamion> mako: yes
<dholbach> I'm *VERY* pleased that iegary stepped up to write patches that upstream looked for for quite some time. He says that he just picks up the "easy things" - but don't believe him.
<seb128> iegary is sending a lot of amazing GNOME patches to fix all sort of bugs to the desktop
<dholbach> He fixed quite a bunch of annoying things in the desktop world - he's a real asset and we're happy he's with us.
<seb128> very good work
<iegary> thank you!
<seb128> thank *you*
<seb128> :)
* dholbach high fives iegary
<Seveas> \o/ for the patching effort
<Seveas> please pick up more of those "easy" tasks 
<dholbach> yeah :)
<iegary> Oh I wouldn't touch any of the difficult ones...
* seb128 does't find those patches "easy" BTW 
<Kamion> ok, launchpad brought up to current
* ogra points to gnome-screensaver ... all these 'easy' bugs are waiting :P
<seb128> (like that refcounting on poppler was not trivial code)
<Seveas> iegary, if you have a moment to spare: Implement a "settings" button in gss please ;)
<ogra> woah, poppler ?
<mako> iegary: sounds like a great member to meto me :)
<dholbach> pffffft
<ogra> that indeed deserves membership right away !
<Kamion> iegary: could you visit https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/+join, please?
<iegary> I hear you, Seveas
<iegary> btw, I hear a rumour I broke pdftex, for the record ;)
<elmo> ogra: dude, don't make me rethink the edubuntu/kubuntu delegation thing :-P
<ogra> elmo, :P
<elmo> ack from me anyway
<elmo> (I'm cheating and pre-reading wiki pages, I'm not really this fast)
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> YAY for elmo!
<Kamion> sadly, I'm not, give me a minute or two
<Seveas> elmo, FTW 
<mako> elmo: i preread them too :)
<elmo> Seveas: eh?
<Seveas> elmo, nvm, I was just cheerleading
<Seveas> The microsoft keyboard has some bad effects on my mental state
<Kamion> oh yes, it was the brltty thing I noticed iegary for
<ompaul> Seveas, we need someone to give you a type m in its place
<mdke> is the microsoft keyboard responsible for the appearance of the dreaded ?
<Yann2> hum. i've been approved as member approximatively one year ago, but never subscribed to the ubuntumembers team -_-
<Yann2> should I forget it? :D
<mako> Yann2: no, do it now
<mako> Yann2: i remember approving you
<Yann2> thanks, done
<Kamion> iegary++, clearly doing a fine job beyond the normal call of duty on bug QA work
<mdke> nice work iegary 
<Seveas> nice one, welcome aboard!
<Bluekuja> congratz iegary
<dholbach> congratulations iegary!
<iegary> thank you! I'm glad to be here.
<Surak> congrats iegari!
<Seveas> keep up the bug work
<Seveas> gnomefreak, you're up
<gnomefreak> thank you, Seveas 
<Kamion> still need iegari to apply to join the team before I can add him
<elmo> gnomefreak: where's your wiki page?
<mako> is there no wikipage?
<gnomefreak> Hi I'm John Vivirito aka gnomefreak, I have been helping on irc for many months now, helping new and experienced users on IRC, mailing lists, and more to the best of my ability. I have also done some material in the wikis. I can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Johnvivirito https://launchpad.net/people/gnomefreak http://www.freewebs.com/ubuntufreak/ubuntulinux.htm  right now I am learning more about Ubuntu and hope 
<gnomefreak> to get some more Python and C experience. Done
<mdke> elmo: mako: small "v"
<Seveas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Johnvivirito
<gnomefreak> elmo, i thought it was oon the agenda wiki
<gnomefreak> s/oon/on
<Seveas> gnomefreak gets a \o/ from me for IRC support - he's active quite a lot
<ompaul> I support gnomefreak in his application, he makes an excellent meeter and greeter, and has buckets patience with new users, he gets people from starting block to up and running, he is attentive to the user and gets to the root (should that be sudo ;-)) of the problem even with very new users, be it terminal material or not and walk them through to getting it usable, he has learnt a lot since he started in #ubuntu and his help is polished to 
<ompaul> a high level. He does not get excited with abuse or trolls. 
<ompaul> or Seveas +1
<nalioth> +1 for gnomefreak for the above reasons
<Seveas> And I want to hijack this a bit: he'd be a great #ubuntu op too
<ompaul> we need him 
<Seveas> (So a vote on that would be nice)
<Kamion> I'm obviously too tired to make sense of the IRC logs in that wiki page
<gnomefreak> thanks guys :)
<_jason> gnomefreak is very active on irc.  He helps out the new guy as well as someone with a more difficult propblem.  He never seems to get frustrated and is always willing to help.
<mako> ompaul: thanks
<ompaul> mako, when we can we do :-)
<mako> i read the first one
<mako> it backs up everything that om has said
<Seveas> gnomefreak reminds me a bit of myself a year ago, when I started doing IRC support. Full of enthousiasm and always willing to help/learn
<mako> very patient, very helpful
<Kamion> the main thing that's missing from the first log seems to be a link to the bug filed about the problem. :-)
<Seveas> heh
<Kamion> but yeah, what mako said
<mako> gnomefreak: how long have you been helping out on irc?
<gnomefreak> mako, strongly helping out since december
* mako nods
<mako> alright, the most we can do is rely on testimonials and examples.. i'm happy with membership on those grounds
<gnomefreak> thank you
<Seveas> mako, how about IRC op?
<mako> oh yes, that sounds fine
<ompaul> mako, I really want to see him as an op
<mako> if the other irc ops would like to see it
<nalioth> +1 on gnomefreak as op
<Seveas> mako, they want to 
<Kamion> happy with gnomefreak for membership
<gnomefreak> thank you
<Surak> congratulations gnomefreak!
<Kamion> gnomefreak: how's the new user network progressing? it's been a while since I heard anything much about it
<ogra> congrats gnomefreak 
<Seveas> Surak, ogra: not yet
<Kamion> er, elmo's not said anything yet
<gnomefreak> thank you everyone im glad to be aboard
<elmo> ack
<Seveas> gnomefreak, you're not there yet
<Seveas> ah, you are ;)
<gnomefreak> oops
<Seveas> congratulations!
<gnomefreak> thank you
<mdke> nice work dude
<Bluekuja> Kamion: new user network its not so much active now
* ogra knew he can speed that up with premature comments ;)
<ompaul> welcome abored 
<ogra> congrats gnomefreak 
<ogra> :)
<Surak> congratulations now :-)
<gnomefreak> Kamion, its going ok 
<Bluekuja> congratz gnomefreak
<gnomefreak> thank you everyone
* Kamion attempts to reconcile Bluekuja's and gnomefreak's comments. :)
<_jason> gnomefreak: congrats
<gnomefreak> ty _jason 
<Seveas> gnomefreak, ah, the new user network is moving forward?
<Kamion> lp munging all done
<ompaul> maybe its time to move it on 
<nalioth> Seveas: incrementally moving
<Seveas> ompaul, move on to where?
<Seveas> nalioth, good to hear
<mako> alright
<ompaul> Seveas,  the bar for the party :)
<gnomefreak> Seveas, its getting there
<Bluekuja> well, kamion talking with one of new user network admins, he said that the project is not more active because we dont need anymore
<Bluekuja> it
<Bluekuja> it was really usefull when ubuntu started
<mako> alright, is there any other bueinss
<Kamion> you mean we have fewer new users now than before? that sounds implausible
<Kamion> no other business from me
<Seveas> datetime of next meeting
<BlueT_> am i the next to be voted?
<mako> umm.. probably should be a bit earlier
<mako> for example, 12UTC
<Seveas> BlueT_, you're not on the agenda
<Bluekuja> well, of course now there a lot of new users, but seems that the team is something like freezed
<Bluekuja> it would be really nice to have it back
<Kamion> actually, BlueT_ is on the agenda
<Kamion> under "Member candidates covered in recent meetings"
<Seveas> AH
<Kamion> BlueT_: go ahead
<BlueT_> My name's Matthew Lien, 22y. I'm the Ubuntu@Taiwan leader and Organizer. wiki page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BlueT
<BlueT_> Managing the [ LoCoTeam - Ubuntu@TW] 
<BlueT_> --
<BlueT_> Maintaining these servers and site contents
<BlueT_> Website/Forum :  http://www.ubuntu.org.tw
<BlueT_> Doc Team :  http://wiki.ubuntu.org.tw - Our own Docs for Traditional Chinese User and Translate Docs from English to Chinese.
<BlueT_> APT server :  http://apt.ubuntu.org.tw - archive mirror, 2Gbps bandwidth.
<BlueT_> Deb Team :  http://apt.ubuntu.org.tw/ubtw and  http://apt.ubuntu.org.tw/ubtw-testing - our own patched and up-to-date package for chinese users.
<BlueT_> LiveCD Team :  http://apt.ubuntu.org.tw/UbuntuTW-LiveCD/ - Our own Custom version LiveCD for Traditional Chinese Users.
<Kamion> "gray hat hacker"? /me raises eyebrow
<BlueT_> ISO mirror :  http://apt.ubuntu.org.tw/release
<BlueT_> Dapper mirror :  http://apt.ubuntu.org.tw/cdimage/releases/dapper/
<BlueT_> --
<BlueT_> Helping Ubuntu-(CN|HK) to be a organized LoCoTeam with our framework.
<BlueT_> Organizing a Ubuntu-ZH, which is a United Team of Ubuntu-(TW|CN|HK), for doing things about TW <-> CN <-> HK.
<BlueT_> Help users on #ubuntu-tw #ubuntu-cn #ubuntu-hk #ubuntu-zh.
<BlueT_> Prepearing a doc server for ubuntu-tw , ubuntu-cn and ubuntu-hk local teams (have been setted up).
<BlueT_> Prepearing a buildd server for ubuntu-tw , ubuntu-cn and ubuntu-hk local teams.
<BlueT_> BetterCJKSupport which aims to make CJK user can use ubuntu more smoothly.
<BlueT_> Translate doc from english to chinese.
<BlueT_> Kamion: white hat for now and future, actually :)
<BlueT_> Write HOWTOs and Docs.
<Kamion> BlueT_: what are the modifications in the UbuntuTW live CD?
<Kamion> are they things that we could integrate properly - are bugs filed?
<Seveas> (bbiab)
<Kamion> http://apt.ubuntu.org.tw/release 404
<Kamion> ah, releases
<BlueT_> Kamion: it was for chinese bug fixs in breezy
<Kamion> http://apt.ubuntu.org.tw/cdimage/releases/dapper/ is a bit out of date FWIW
<Kamion> BlueT_: are they still needed in dapper?
<BlueT_> Kamion: the connection speed of cdimage is REALLY slow. we tried our best to mirror :(
<BlueT_> Kamion: i'll focus on locolization in our dapper livecd :)
<Kamion> there was a period when it was slow due to various issues - you may find it's faster now though, that was a while ago
<Kamion> although I appreciate that shoving bits half-way round the world takes a while
<elmo> it definitely shoudl be better now
<Surak> BlueT_: i can rsync the daily images in matter of minutes today from cdimage
<elmo> if it's still slow, I suspect network problems, or just general poor level3 .eu -> asia links
<Kamion> BlueT_: I feel quite strongly that we should be making sure these bits get merged; if you want to mail me (or maybe better ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com) a list of things that need to be integrated, that'd be good
<BlueT_> Kamion: okay :)
<Kamion> can somebody who knows about it talk with BlueT about the official Ubuntu book?
<Kamion> (looking down at the bottom of the wiki page)
<Seveas> I've asked the publisher about translations - no response yet
<BlueT_> Surak: the speed's still slow here :S
<neuralis> Seveas: talk to me afterwards, i can probably answer your question(s).
<Seveas> (I'm one of the reviewers for the book)
<Seveas> neuralis, after the meeting is bedtime, sorry
<Kamion> BlueT_: on CDs, if you burn our released CD images, you can call those official; for altered/localised CDs we'd have to talk about the details
<neuralis> Seveas: that's fine, catch me whenever
<Kamion> any other ubuntu-tw folks around?
<mako> BlueT_: i can talk to you about hte book too
<Surak> Seveas: I spoke with mako about pt_BR: I have someone with money who wishes to do it. Mako, did you receive my email?
<mako> Seveas: i've been talking to the publisher about translations.. she said she can make it happen but isn't entirely sure how
<BlueT_> Kamion: Mark asked me to email him these, but no response from him. :S
<mako> Seveas: it's under a free license though so, well, it can happen :)
<BlueT_> mako: ok :D
<Kamion> BlueT_: try ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com then
<Kamion> BlueT_: were any of your group at the localisation sprint in London?
<BlueT_> Kamion: abelcheng and freeflying-ibook knows me :)
<mako> i'm still trying to get a sense of the answer to Kamion's first questions
<mako> now large of a diff are you carrying and how much of it can you get back into ubuntu
<mako> s/now/how/
<BlueT_> Kamion: nope. we're not invited. but abelcheng was there :)
<Bluekuja> guys i have to go, kamion I'll contact you tomorrow to talk about the new user network
<Bluekuja> suggestions etc
<BlueT_> mako: almost everything. # how much of it can you get back into ubuntu
* Meyer back
<mako> BlueT_: bugs filed?
<BlueT_> mako: i can't say a correctly number for that question, coz we have a DebTeam for now. # now large of a diff are you carrying 
<OgMaciel> heya mako...  long time don't see
<BlueT_> mako: not enough time for it.
<mako> BlueT_: what do you mean by a DebTeam?
<BlueT_> mako: somebody should focus on bugs filing, and somebody should focus on else.
<Kamion> a mix of both activities works well for most of the Ubuntu development team, FWIW; it's better for the people who are familiar with the problems to file the bugs
<Kamion> anyway, we're drifting off-topic; how do folks feel?
<BlueT_> mako: now we have a team for doing patches and packaging softwares.
<Kamion> I'd really like a commitment to push for reintegration of the ubuntu-tw development work, so that it's a contribution to Ubuntu proper
<mdke> BlueT_: (if you're interested in translating the Desktop Guide, Server Guide, Packaging Guide etc, have a look at the ubuntu-translators mailing list archives, there are details there of how to do that.)
<BlueT_> mdke: i see. i had subscribed that mailing list already :)
<Kamion> but if that's done, I'm happy with the rest of the work
<elmo> kamion++
<Kamion> (local advocacy, testing, local documentation etc.)
<mdke> BlueT_: good, I was just checking because I saw the thing about translating the book so I thought I'd just clarify in case you didn't know about it.
<BlueT_> mdke: thanx :)
* mako nods to Kamion 
<BlueT_> and apologize if there's any questions i didn't answer
<mako> that sounds like a fair deal
<Seveas> So, +3 once the ubuntu-tw works are merged?
<elmo> not conditional on it being merged, but a commitment to working towards that
<BlueT_> coz english is not my native language, so maybe i'm a little slower than you @@"
<mako> elmo: right
<mako> alright then
<mako> BlueT_: welcome
<mako> if there are no problems then, lets reconvene in two weeks at UTC12
<Kamion> can I approve BlueT in LP?
<ogra> without that commitment ?
<BlueT_> mako: thanx :)
<Kamion> BlueT_: can you say that you will get somebody to send a summary of your changes to ubuntu-devel@, and we can move on? :-)
<BlueT_> changes on...?
<Kamion> BlueT_: the ubuntu-tw live CD, with respect to dapper
<ogra> bugs that havent been filed etc 
<BlueT_> Kamion: yeh of course :)
<ogra> s/filed/filed yet/ :)
<Kamion> ok, great, thank you
<Kamion> I've approved BlueT in launchpad now
<elmo> ANY OTHER BUSINESS?
<Kamion> right
<Kamion> 00:15 < mako> if there are no problems then, lets reconvene in two weeks at UTC12
<Kamion> works for me
<Seveas> ack
<freeflying-ibook> hi all, I know something about BlueT_ , shall I tell something
<Kamion> going
<elmo> is that midday?
<Kamion> freeflying-ibook: go ahead
<Kamion> elmo: yes
<elmo> oh, hang on
<Kamion> freeflying-ibook: although we've already approved him so it's a bit late, but quick
<elmo> Kamion: that's the middle of debconf
<elmo> I think all four CC folks will be there ;-)
<Kamion> I won't
<freeflying-ibook> Kamion: BlueT_ has host ubuntu-tw,and do support in taiwan
<elmo> Kamion: no?  bummer
<Kamion> afraid not :(
<Kamion> no mehico for me
<freeflying-ibook> Kamion: he has worked with us lots for BetterCJKSuppor spec, like test, etc
<elmo> mako's registered at least and usually turns up.  mark's going
<elmo> 12UTC is going to be awfully early in mexico
<mako> elmo: i'm actually *not* going to be at debconf
<elmo> mako: ah
<Seveas> *shock*
<mako> i asked them to unregister
<mako> i know
<mako> first time in like 5 years
<Kamion> how about we make it 2000UTC then, to let elmo and mark get adequate beauty sleep
* ogra thinks it will be a small debconf this time, many people arent going
<mako> combination of end of the semester, sponsors week at the media lab and getting married sort of added together :)
<Kamion> freeflying-ibook: ok, thanks; sounds like we were right to approve him from your point of view, then :)
<mdke> wow, congrats mako 
<ogra> mako, getting married ????
<Kamion> mako: oh, hey, congratulations
<Seveas> getting married?!?
<mako> ah, yes, i haven't blogged that yet :)
<freeflying-ibook> Kamion: thanks
<ogra> mako, you ????
<mako> will do today :)
<Seveas> when?
<gnomefreak> congrats mako 
<ogra> mako, WOW !!!!
<Seveas> congratulations!
<elmo> Kamion: in some ways 12UTC might work better - there's more chance of me attending, if not mark.  20UTC would put us middle of day, fighting with talks (or the water park)
<ogra> yeah, congrats
<freeflying-ibook> BlueT_: congrats
<ajmitch> mako: nice way to spring it on us :)
<BlueT_> mako: congradulations!
<mako> either time is fine for me :)
<mako> ajmitch: thought you wouldn't notice :)
<ompaul> mako, :-) best of luck
<BlueT_> Kamion: am i one of ubuntu-members now?
<Seveas> BlueT_, yes
<Surak> mako: congratulations, and.... good luck!
<gnomefreak> congrats BlueT_ 
* BlueT_ kisses everyone!
<BlueT_> Seveas: thanx
<ogra> BlueT_, welcome :)
<elmo> kamion/mako: ok, let's do 12UTC.  I can have fun trolling mark, telling him he has to attend to make up for missing so many
<BlueT_> gnomefreak: you too :D
<gnomefreak> thank you
<ompaul> BlueT_, well done
<BlueT_> ogra: *hug*
<ogra> :)
<BlueT_> ompaul: thx :)
<mako> elmo: sounds fine
<ogra> elmo, tell him he'll be kept in afterwards :)
<Kamion> elmo: works for me; throw a bucket of water over him for me ;)
<elmo> ok - can we call this a night?  I'd kind of like to get some dinner ;)
<elmo> mako: (congratulations)
<Kamion> righto
<Kamion> adjourned
<ogra> yay
<ogra> that was longish
* ogra joins elmo in digging for dinner
<gnomefreak> night everyone and thank you again
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 04 May 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 10 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu
<mdke> night all.
<BlueT_> good morning everyone and much thanx :)
<Surak> night folks
<Meyer> @schedule Brazil/East
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Brazil/East: 03 May 09:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 10:30: Xubuntu | 03 May 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 17:00: Technical Board | 10 May 09:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 10:30: Xubuntu
<_sHaDe> Buona Notte a Tutti :)
* #ubuntu-meeting  [freenode-info]  please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<highvoltage> !schedule UTC
<lifeless> @schedule UTC
<lifeless> ?
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 03 May 12:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 13:30: Xubuntu | 04 May 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 20:00: Technical Board | 10 May 12:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 13:30: Xubuntu
<highvoltage> is there an edubuntu meeting here now?
<Kinnison> highvoltage: it's 10:05 UTC
<lifeless> schedule sydney
<lifeless> @schedule sydney
<Kinnison> highvoltage: So I guess the edubuntu meeting will start in 2h
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 03 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 23:30: Xubuntu | 04 May 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 May 06:00: Technical Board | 10 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 23:30: Xubuntu
<lifeless> 2 hours
<highvoltage> pggg, 12:00 SAST now :) sorry.
<lifeless> highvoltage: ...
<lifeless> @schedule SAST
<lifeless> highvoltage: what city are you in ?
<ogra> lifeless, he's in capetown 
<ogra> (GMT+2)
<lifeless> so, in theory:
<lifeless> @schedule capetown
<lifeless> nup, sucks
<rikai> @schedule eastern
<lifeless> @schedule GMT+2
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Canada/Eastern: 03 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 03 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 16:00: Technical Board | 10 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 09:30: Xubuntu
<lifeless> @schedule (GMT+2)
<lifeless> file a bug :)
<rikai> lifeless: i do believe that GMT+* has been disabled.
<ogra> just poke Seveas :)
<ogra> @schedule UTC+2 
<lifeless> 20:18 [freenode]  -Ubugtu(n=bugbot@ubuntu/bot/ubugtu)- Error: Unknown timezone: (GMT+2) - Full list: http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/timezones.html
<ogra> same for UTC+2
<lifeless> the send-to-console behaviour of ubugtu really shits me
<lifeless> I dont see them for ages
<rikai> i do believe that the only way that works is by timezone name or major cities.
<lifeless> yeah
<ogra> probably it just forgot how addition and subtraction work
<lifeless> I figured capetown would be major enough
<rikai> Seveas disabled all other forms.
<lifeless> @schedule posixrules
<Ubugtu> Schedule for posixrules: 03 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 03 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 16:00: Technical Board | 10 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 09:30: Xubuntu
<lifeless> rikai: not really :)
<rikai> @schedule New York
<rikai> :F
<lifeless> posixrules is not a major city :)
<rikai> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 03 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 03 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 16:00: Technical Board | 10 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 09:30: Xubuntu
<rikai> aha!
<lifeless> @schedule johannesburg
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 03 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 04 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 22:00: Technical Board | 10 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 15:30: Xubuntu
<ogra> johannesburg > capetown ???
<lifeless> apparently
<ogra> heh
<Seveas> lifeless/ogra: GMT+/-X has been disabled because it's confusing
<ogra> given that capetown it the capital, you probably should have it in that list :)
<Seveas> it has only official timezone names
<Seveas> If you think things are missing: contact the olson db maintainers 
<highvoltage> ogra: we have two capitals in SA :)
<ogra> highvoltage, officially ? 
<highvoltage> ogra: just a sec...
<rikai> south africa hs 3 capitals it seems.
<rikai> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa
<highvoltage> ogra: no, i was wrong
<rikai> look tot he table on the right.
<rikai> *to the
<highvoltage> ogra: we have 3 official capital cities :)
<cbx33> @schedule
<Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
<cbx33> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 03 May 13:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 14:30: Xubuntu | 04 May 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 21:00: Technical Board | 10 May 13:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 14:30: Xubuntu
<rikai> Cape Town(Legeslative), Pretoria(Administrative) and Bloemfontein(Judicial)
<rikai> and 11 official languages.... sheesh.
<highvoltage> rikai: was almost 12, since sign language almost became one too :)
<bimberi> @schedule canberra
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Canberra: 03 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 23:30: Xubuntu | 04 May 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 May 06:00: Technical Board | 10 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 23:30: Xubuntu
<rikai> highvoltage: heh.
<_sHaDe> ciao a tutti
<lucasvo> @schedule zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 03 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 03 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 04 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 22:00: Technical Board | 10 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 15:30: Xubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 04 May 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 10 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu
<cbx33> afternoon all
<jsgotangco> wow 2UTC for development
<jsgotangco> that's like 4am in capetown
<ogra> or germany
<highvoltage> or italy
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> 3AM in the uk
<jsgotangco> that's 10am for me heh
* highvoltage gets up at 5, usually, so it's only an hour earlier
<bimberi> Noon in Oz :P
<highvoltage> which suits me. nobody will bug and disrupt me that time of the morning.
<jsgotangco> shall we start?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: 3 more minutes, i think :)
<ogra> 4
<Laser_away> hi everybody
<ogra> wow, you made it !
<LaserJock> heh, barely ;-)
<cbx33> nice one LaserJock 
<ogra> 12:00 UTC :)
* ajmitch sits out of the way again :)
<JaneW> hi all
<jsgotangco> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi
<JaneW> Edubuntu meeting time
<cbx33> w00t
<Bluekuja> hi all
<jsgotangco> ok
<flint> Good morning Jane and all the gang...
<Bluekuja> i just arrived :)
<ogra> heya
<cbx33> hey Bluekuja 
<Bluekuja> hey pete
<Bluekuja> hi oliver
<Bluekuja> hi jane
<highvoltage> hi flint 
* rikai listens in.
<Bluekuja> ooh highvoltage
<flint> hey Jonathan!
<Bluekuja> hi
<JaneW> ok today's meeting is somewhat momentous
<ogra> ok, no topics added to the agenda, thats great :)
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda
<JaneW> and a bit more official that some of the others we have had
<cbx33> indeed
<ogra> yeah, welcome to the first edubuntu council meeting evah :)
<JaneW> as it is our first ever EC nominations/votes/inauguration
<JaneW> RAH
<ogra> so do we follow the general agenda first ? #
<ogra> i dont have much from a tech POV 
<JaneW> I think we should do EC first
<JaneW> agreed?
<cbx33> yes
<Bluekuja> okie
* jsgotangco raises hand
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> k
<ogra> jsgotangco, ?
<JaneW> as the rest tends to becomes rambling discussion, let's do official business first
<JaneW> agree/disagree now
<flint> ok
<jsgotangco> oh go ahead
<highvoltage> yep
<ogra> JaneW, you chair ?
<JaneW> yes sorry I was merrilly typing in wrong #
<JaneW> JaneW ok officially
<JaneW> JaneW The edubuntu council will review membership candidates at every first meeting in a month, please add yourself below and subscribe to [WWW]  https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members, the same membership rules as in ubuntu apply.
<JaneW> JaneW ok who do we have up for membership today?
<cbx33> heheh
<JaneW> just cbx33 today?
<JaneW> and is highvoltage approved already?
<ogra> shouldnt we first make the EC complete ? 
<JaneW>  (I am not clear on that)
<ogra> nope, we'll need to vote 
<cbx33> who can vote?
<ogra> we have two EC  nominations
<highvoltage> well, i suppose the EC should exist first before it approves members :)
<JaneW> ogra: ok
<JaneW> ogra / highvoltage : yes good point!
<ogra> i think only EC should vote for EC
<JaneW> ogra: ok want to run with this part?
<JaneW> ogra: yes but like CC we can hear argument from outsiders
<highvoltage> let the arguments begin!
<JaneW> which can help the EC to decide
<JaneW> so who is the EC
<JaneW> so far ogra
<ogra> and you
<JaneW> and I
<JaneW> I think we need at LEAST one and preferably 2 more
<ogra> so praise the candidates *now* !
<ogra> i'd say we need at least 2, preferably 3 :)
<JaneW> what will consistute a quorum? 2 or 3?
<highvoltage> ogra: any candidates from university?
<JaneW> I'd say 3
<ogra> JaneW, we need a weight against employee power
<LaserJock> highvoltage: me
<jsgotangco> stand au loin
<JaneW> ogra: yes
* Seveas does a cheerleading dance for highvoltage 
<ogra> so at least two for now
* bimberi praises highvoltage 
* cbx33 advocates both highvoltage and LaserJock 
<JaneW> ogra: should we look at other Ubuntu ppl (Kamion, mdz etc some to mind)
<flint> I would suppose that all this should be written on a web site and ratified by a popular vote.
<cbx33> thank you both for all your help and support
* Bluekuja quote cbx33
<ogra> JaneW, i doubt they have ambitions to become EC members :)
<JaneW> ogra: I don't know
<Kamion> JaneW: please not me; I'm already on the Community Council and the whole point of this is to delegate
<Kamion> not much point in delegating to myself
<ogra> flint, it was discussed on the mailinglist over the last week
<JaneW> Kamion: ok, noted
<bimberi> hehe, i think they have enough meetings :)
<cbx33> heheh
<JaneW> ogra: what about jsgotangco or mhz?
<ogra> JaneW, aslo i think two canonical employees is really enough
<flint> typically the beginning of governance starts with a vote of aclaimation.
<Kamion> I think it's important that the Edubuntu council are people who are actively involved in Edubuntu, not just Ubuntu in general
<ogra> flint, as it happened on the ML
<highvoltage> i think both jsgotangco and mhz would be good candidates
<ogra> yes, jsgotangco would be great
<jsgotangco> err?
<JaneW> highvoltage: additionally they cover different timezones, which is handy
<flint> ogra, was there a posting of quorum?  
<ogra> mhz is rarely around recently
<JaneW> jsgotangco: !
<JaneW> ogra: yes, but he might be able to fix that
<Kamion> flint: FWIW this is delegation of governance not initiation of governance
<ogra> flint, there was an explanation how we want to go forward with that, some nominations and praising
<highvoltage> ogra: he's been real busy 'out there' though
<flint> Kamion, i missed one meeting was there a vote to initiate this council?
<ogra> highvoltage, right
<JaneW> jsgotangco: you interested?
<jsgotangco> ack
<Kamion> flint: it's a delegated body requested to be created by the Ubuntu Community Council
<jsgotangco> :D
<JaneW> I'll take that as a no...?
<jsgotangco> i thought we are nominating?
<ogra> JaneW, ack usually means acknowledged
<flint> JaneW, I believe that is so.
<JaneW> ogra: the problem is that the longstanding active community is still pretty small.
<cbx33> ogra: not in calvin and hobbes :p
<JaneW> ack can be like GAH!
<LaserJock> cbx33: hehe
<flint> Kamion, I agree that the UCC says go but do WE say so?
<ogra> JaneW, yes, but we have people like LaserJock highvoltage and jsgotangco applying for the job, so i think thats fine 
<JaneW> ogra: great, let's take all 3. ?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i don't mind doing this for the interim till we get stable enough for proper voting
<ogra> we'll get more people involved with a working council simply through membership
<ogra> i'd also like to suggest a time limitation on the job
<ogra> i.e. max two release periods
<jsgotangco> yeah
<highvoltage> time limitation is great
<LaserJock> yep
<JaneW> Yes that's a good idea
<highvoltage> does membership also have time limitation?
<bimberi> ogra: yes, tying it to release periods is a very good idea
<ogra> people can apply again and get voted again though
<cbx33> ogra: good
<ogra> highvoltage, yes, two years by default iirc
<ogra> LP setting
<JaneW> yes I think that's it
<highvoltage> ok, great.
<ogra> so JaneW would you be happy with these three then until eft+1 ?
<JaneW> ok do we have the core EC then?
<ogra> looks like :)
<JaneW> LaserJock/ highvoltage / jsgotangco  you happy with that?
<highvoltage> JaneW: yep
<ogra> jsgotangco, highvoltage, LaserJock welcome to the powerful world of the EC :)
<JaneW> I need a clear affirmative
<jsgotangco> JaneW: sounds fun
<ogra> yeah
<highvoltage> mhuahahaha
<highvoltage> JaneW: YES
<LaserJock> yes, I am here ;-)
* jsgotangco evil grin
<JaneW> ok Done
* cbx33 congratulates highvoltage LaserJock jsgotangco 
<ogra> LaserJock, and you are fine with it ?
* JaneW slams down wooden hammer
<rikai> Congrats guys :)
<LaserJock> ogra: yessir
<JaneW>  we'll need a cake...
<ogra> great :)
<flint> JaneW, should the candidates be special in their interests or merely involved in development?
<bimberi> \o/
<JaneW> flint: not so much dev related, more COMMUNITY issues, by definition
<ogra> flint, the EC candidates should be members for some time already 
<JaneW> but I am sure dev will be touched on too
<flint> should a teacher or a student be involved, maybe one or the other already is?
<ogra> flint, we're done for now with that part ...
<highvoltage> flint: read ogra's last post to edubuntu-devel, he said exactly that :)
<LaserJock> flint: I'm a PhD student and teach a bit as a part of that
<flint> LaserJock, excellent.
<jsgotangco> yeah he has a Laser
<JaneW> cbx33: is also involved with a school
<cbx33> indeed I am
<ogra> flint, and highvoltage closely works on the frontline with teachers and schoools
<jsgotangco> im not messing with a guy with a *Laser*
<flint> ogra, I have very good feelings about Jonathan.
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: heh, you better not ;-)
<JaneW> ok, on to today's candidate/s
<highvoltage> flint: :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, pfft, just get a big mirror 
<ogra> he cant harm you :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<JaneW> we have cbx33 
<ogra> yeah, membership candidates please prepare the 3 liner
<ogra> oops phone
<highvoltage> and a wiki page
<JaneW> cbx33: can you breifly tell us why you'd like to join
<highvoltage> but you don't have to phone us.
<JaneW> and what you plan on doing?
<highvoltage> :p
<cbx33> ok
* cbx33 is Peter Savage, 24 year old IT Manager currently working in a school in Southampton UK. Have been using linux for about 2 years in various forms and recently moved to Ubuntu. Run a small LUG at the school called YouthLUG, where we teach Ubuntu to the pupils. I started contributing to Ubuntu/Edubuntu at the beginning of April. Spearheading Ubuntu advocacy at the school, giving out ShipIt CD's.
<cbx33> Been working heavily on documentation recently, creating SchoolsAdvocacy page, eventually hoping to be a printed pamphlet to send to schools. Wrote LTSP man pages, and LTSP DHCP and multi boot docs. Perform testing on Edubuntu CD's, whenever required. Working on the edubuntu testing plans and report templates. Reporting bugs, submitting fixes wherever possible. Offering support whenever I can to the #edubuntu channel.
<cbx33> I hope to push Edubuntu to schools more and more. Would love to showcase Edubuntu at the BETT show in London next year. More testing. Organise a team to write an edubuntu book for school administrators. Get involved with getting better Active Directory integration for easier migration for schools. More bug fixing, learning python and contributing to the LTSP manager package. Aim to be come a MOTU.
<cbx33> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PeteSavage
<jsgotangco> the advocacy page is exactly what i wanted for a desktop guide before
<Bluekuja> hehe
<jsgotangco> it lists the basic apps that differentiate edubuntu
<cbx33> :D - were working on it
<JaneW> cbx33: sounds great thanks
<highvoltage> cbx33: is the ltsp man pages available on-line somewhere?
<JaneW> cbx33: yes and that advocacy page looks great, I am sure it will be very usefull.
<cbx33> they are in my LTSP bazaar branch
<cbx33> I do have some online links too
<ogra> highvoltage, i'll upload the ltsp package with the manpages today
<cbx33> thank you ogra 
<jsgotangco> i made some hi-rez screenshots of the applications, if you want, i can turn them over to you
<highvoltage> ok, nice.
<ogra> but there is also the bzr branch from cbx33 
<JaneW> cbx33: hopefully we can print them as a brochure, but I can't commit to that unfortunately
<cbx33> nice jsgotangco :D
<cbx33> JaneW: I understand
<LaserJock> cbx33: when did you first get involved with Edubuntu?
<cbx33> I've been involed with the development of edubuntu ie joinging the community since the beginning of April
<cbx33> but was using and testing it a little while before, though hadn't been part of launchpad
<JaneW> from what I have seen so far cbx33 is not only keen, and enthusiastic, but reliable and available too, which counts for a lot.
<ogra> and cbx33 did an awesome job since then
<jsgotangco> cbx33: care to elaborate about the testingplan?
<ogra> i bet youre the most active community contributor currently
<JaneW> So even though you have only been around a short while, if you plan to stay on for a while, I am happy to gve you my vote.
<highvoltage> I know Ubuntu memebership is about long-term, sustained contribution, but i think that cbx33 has already proven his dedication to us in this short perioud.
<highvoltage> *period.
<highvoltage> ogra: i second that
<Bluekuja> yeah, cbx33 is doing a great work
<cbx33> Sure, the testing plan will detail, similar to the ubuntu testing plan, what we need to do to fully test the betas, in particular the difference to ubuntu
<ogra> oh, btw, EC quorum is 3 of 5, right ? 
<Bluekuja> just taking a look to the advocacy page
<JaneW> ogra: yes
<cbx33> the report tempalte is supposed to provide a way of signing off packages to say they have been tested and approved by at least 2 people
<LaserJock> I've had very good interactions with cbx33. He did proofreading for the Ubuntu Packaging Guide and I'm helping him with the Advocacy page a bit
<cbx33> JaneW: I plan to stay :p
<JaneW> ogra: but I think if only 3 memebers are present (quorum) then the vote would need to be unnanimous (agreed?)
<cbx33> thank you highvoltage 
<highvoltage> JaneW: yep
<highvoltage> sorry, you asked ogra 
<ogra> JaneW, i'd think 4 weeks of *very active* contribution is enough to call it sustained, even if he'd disapper tomorrow he would have contributed a lot already :)
<Bluekuja> yeah
<JaneW> do you all agree that 3 votes are needed to get in? regardless of now many EC members are in attendance?
<ogra> JaneW, yep
<Bluekuja> he's working really hard for the project
<LaserJock> JaneW: agreed
<highvoltage> ogra: yep
<jsgotangco> ack
<ogra> so does anyone have any additional questions to cbx33 ?
<Bluekuja> nope
<cbx33> https://launchpad.net/people/petesavage/
<cbx33> whoops i forgot to add that
<ogra> the wikipage talks for itself i think and we all have already worked with him
<JaneW> ok so official voting now. Who would like to vote cbx33 as EC member?
<bimberi> no, agree with what's been said so far - great work cbx33!!
<JaneW> +1
<ogra> +1
<highvoltage> +1
<JaneW> that's 3, you're in!
<Kamion> JaneW: EC member or Edubuntu member?
<cbx33> :D
<flint> cbx33, nice wiki page indeed 
<LaserJock> +1 with some reservation on the time, but I really like cbx33's work
<bimberi> cbx33: the first Edubuntu member - congratulations!
<JaneW> to be clear that's as Edubuntu Member
<Bluekuja> congrats cbx33
<Bluekuja> :)
<jsgotangco> +1 for hard work (did my vote matter?)
<jsgotangco> :D
<cbx33> Thank you all for all your support 
<ogra> cbx33, wow, thats 5 of 5, welcome aboard !
* ogra approves in LP
<JaneW> congrats cbx33 , and that's for your excellent work so far. And for your wife's art.
<cbx33> this community is the most helpful I've ever worked in, and no eliteism either
<cbx33> thank you ogra 
<ogra> and congrats for being the first :)
<jsgotangco> err where's the LP page?
<Bluekuja> great pete welcome :)
<cbx33> https://launchpad.net/people/petesavage/
<ogra> there are two other people on the LP page
* cbx33 removes his flame retardant gear
<LaserJock> JaneW: oh yeah, I was going to mention he should become a member through marrage ;-)
<JaneW> are they here?
<JaneW> cbx33: did you need it?
<ogra> (not listed on the wiki though)
<cbx33> no
<highvoltage> cbx33: i second that (most helpful community i worked with before)
<ogra> is Arnnstien1 around ?
* highvoltage is glad that JaneW forgot to fuel the hoops
<JaneW> highvoltage: that's in large part due to you too
<JaneW> damn, next time
<highvoltage> JaneW: thanks ;)
* cbx33 is relieved
<ogra> freeflying applied accidentially i think, he's already ubuntu memeber, so no need to apply additionally to edubuntu-members
<highvoltage> cbx33: congratulations!
<bimberi> cbx33: interesting process innit?
<jsgotangco> do i add myself here?
<highvoltage> cbx33: and welcome :)
<JaneW> ogra: so are there any more to consider?
<LaserJock> quick question. Are the EC by default Edubuntu members?
<cbx33> indeed it is
<ogra> JaneW, only Arnnstien1 and freeflying are on the list
<cbx33> thank you highvoltage 
<ogra> LaserJock, yes
<highvoltage> ogra: really?
<ogra> JaneW, apart from the fact that neither seem to be here, the above i wrote applies at least to freeflying
<LaserJock> ogra: and is there an EC LP team?
<JaneW> the next EC sitting to consider candidates is Wed 7 June
<highvoltage> ogra: as far as i understand, they have exactly the same rights and everything else, although they're not exactly the same in name
<JaneW> will we keep it at this time or at 20:00?
<ogra> LaserJock, https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members
<ogra> yes
<ogra> i'll make the rest of the EC team admins after the meeting
<ogra> JaneW, we decided to do every second meeting in the evening, didnt we ? 
<JaneW> yes we did
* jsgotangco doesn't mind 20UTC
<ogra> highvoltage, edubuntu-members is a member of ubuntu-members 
<LaserJock> JaneW: I suggest a rotation. This meeting started at 0500 for me
<JaneW> ah right, sorry I miscalculated, I was thinking it was going to stay day time, it's all good
<ogra> so ubuntu-memebership automatically applies
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, great
* highvoltage is fine with 20UTC too
<JaneW> ok next EC sitting on 7 June at 20:00UTC
<ogra> LaserJock, thats why we said we'd do every second one at 20:00 UTC last week
<ogra> can the rest of the EC please apply for membership at https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members, so i can make you admins
<bimberi> ogra: you might consider an edbuntu-council (say) LP team as well
<JaneW> ogra: done
<ogra> bimberi, all admins of the edubuntu-members team are the council
<ogra> i dont think we need a separate tem 
<ogra> team
<JaneW> I agree
<jsgotangco> yeah i have too many emblems already
<bimberi> yep, just though of that myself as you asked them to apply :)
<ogra> emblems !!!
<JaneW> this needs a better emblem
<ogra> highvoltage, edubuntu-members has no emblem yet !!!
<JaneW> it's not even an edubuntu emblem...
<LaserJock> ogra: done
<highvoltage> ogra: *GASP*
* highvoltage will have to make one, complete with firey hoops and all
<JaneW> highvoltage: cbx33 : next task - emblem!
<cbx33> hehehe
<LaserJock> what? no emblem? That's it, I'm out ;-)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> heh
<JaneW> ok we'd better move on
<JaneW> ogra: tech update?
<ogra> ok, any other EC business ? 
<ogra> flint, when will you apply for membership ? 
<flint> when invited.
<flint> i will consider it.
<ogra> flint, thats not how it works 
<ogra> you need to apply for it :)
<flint> ogra, that is how I work.  in the mean time someone needs to be an advocate.
<ogra> same as ubuntu membership :)
<flint> I am not an ubuntu member either.
<JaneW> flint: it's like politics, you get involved, get noticed, and get in the running
<ogra> you'll become one automatically if you apply for edubuntu membership :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<JaneW> ogra: hang on a sec, don;t all members need to sign the CoC?
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> we haven't mentioned that have we?
<LaserJock> uh oh
<flint> thank you all.  I will consider this and accept this as offered.
<bimberi> it's ok, cbx33 has
<cbx33> of course I have
<jsgotangco> hmm didnt notice cbx33's monster karma
<JaneW> cool
<cbx33> I submitted hte first bug on 1.0.1 not being signable :p
* JaneW checks
<ogra> JaneW, if the LP page of the people says "Ubuntero: yes" then its fine
<cbx33> as fas as I know
<ogra> (that means they signed)
<cbx33> there are 4 duplicates now :p
<cbx33> jsgotangco: I don;t quite know what happened with karma
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: yeah, he's go more karma than me :/
<JaneW> yikes
* JaneW better work on increasing karma
<jsgotangco> cbx33: you got lots of specs
<cbx33> it just kinda happened one day
<JaneW> that's it I am not answering e-mail anymore
<jsgotangco> 4 of which are edubuntu specs
<highvoltage> karma shouldn't count for membership
<cbx33> indeed
<highvoltage> (not yet anyway)
<highvoltage> the karma system is still a bit dodgy :)
<cbx33> i don;t think it's enough of an indication
<jsgotangco> yeah but 4 edubuntu specs
<highvoltage> (no offence to launchpad admins)
* jsgotangco thinks spec karma is too much
<JaneW> ok we are running out of time
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> well, I'm trying, jsgotangco, depends if they are any good
<JaneW> highvoltage: don;t worry they know and are working on it :)
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> lets move on to normal meeting business
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: it's an incentive for people to use a new lp feature ;)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I agree, although having any karam indicates you have done something anyway
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep
<JaneW> AFIAK specs have highest karma, then bugs and then translations.
<jsgotangco> do we get tech updates?
<ogra> so tech update: nothing in particular, flight7 is in preparation as i just heard
<JaneW> ogra: bugs?
<ogra> most of my recent work was on ubuntu bugs
<JaneW> starting to stabilise?
<ogra> yes, we have some 
<cbx33> I've submitted a few edubuntu bugs or contributed to some already present
<JaneW> 4 weeks to go
<ogra> there is that ldm bug that makes ltsp boot into console which needs fixage
<ogra> all other bugs a re rather minor
<ogra> (wrt edubuntu)
<LaserJock> uggh, I've got a couple squeak bugs I might be able to take care of
<cbx33> printing is an issue I think
<cbx33> depends on how everyone else feels about its importance
<lifeless> JaneW: IIRC the karma is balanced : each section contributes to the total karma equally.
<LaserJock> cbx33: what is wrong with printing?
<lifeless> JaneW: but, because there is less history in the system for specs, actions there have a higher amount of value at the moment, this will balance out over time
<ogra> cbx33, printing ? 
<JaneW> lifeless: oic
<cbx33> LaserJock: I can't add a printer on the live cd
<JaneW> lifeless: thanks
<ogra> cbx33, thats no edubuntu bug
<cbx33> ah sorry ogra 
<ogra> cbx33, thats rather general ubuntu/cups breakage
<cbx33> though we were talking about all bugs affecting edubuntu
<jsgotangco> that's cups its known
<ogra> (should be adressed indeed)
<cbx33> my apologies ogra 
<cbx33> can we put pressue on it all
<ogra> cbx33, we wont release with a completely broken cups :)
<cbx33> phew :p
<ogra> if you filed a bug, it should be addressed by pitti
<jsgotangco> its been on -devel discussion for a weeks
<cbx33> yeh it's alredy being addressed
<LaserJock> do we have any mechanism for seperating Edubuntu and Ubuntu bugs? Or is it just ogra weeding his way through the vast fields of bug reports?
<ogra> LaserJock, we have the edubuntu-bugs team
<cbx33> I'm trying to search through when i get a sec and reassign them
<ogra> all new edubuntu specific bugs should get assigned to it
<cbx33> I think on LP it would be nice to include the assignee in a list
<ogra> that includes edu apps we include or breakage of the metapackages -docs -artwork -meta
<ogra> (everything that differs to ubuntu)
<LaserJock> ogra: do you have a feeling for how many bugs, percentage wise, are Edubuntu specific?
<cbx33> ogra: do we have a definitie list of that somewhere
<ogra> i know that we have less than 20 bugs 
<ogra> (that are edubuntu specific)
<ogra> cbx33, nope, not yet
<LaserJock> ogra: cool, better than MOTU Science at the moment
<ogra> the bugsquad knows about the edubuntu-bugs team 
<ogra> so future assignements should go to that team
<ogra> also if you talk to people in #edubuntu that want to file a bug, please advise them to assign it to the team
<cbx33> will do
<ogra> other tech stuff ? 
<jsgotangco> yeah
<highvoltage> ogra: kind of
<ogra> shoot
<ogra> (in order please)
<ogra> jsgotangco, ?
<jsgotangco> too bad we're frozen at the moment for flight 7 but we already have a yelp page and a firefox startpage
<LaserJock> ogra: have you considered making edubuntu-bugs the inital bug contact for Edubunt packages?
<ogra> jsgotangco, isnt that doc stuff ? 
<LaserJock> oh, sorry jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> ogra: oh sorry
<ogra> (later on the agenda anyway)
<jsgotangco> :P
<JaneW> we have 8 mins so better speed things up
<highvoltage> right
<ogra> LaserJock, yes, we should at least subscribe edubuntu-bugs to all packages, i havent gotten around to do that yet
<highvoltage> ogra: i added a little spec to the add-on cd we discussed: https://launchpad.net/products/edubuntu-addon-cd
<ogra> highvoltage, you had something ? 
<ogra> ah, nice 
<JaneW> can we do docs now?
<highvoltage> ogra: i will flesh it out a bit more over the following week
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> but thats rather eft stuff 
<cbx33> heeh
<cbx33> the add-on cd is a great idea
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, it's eft stuff, so we'll talk about that on #edubuntu then
<ogra> lets stic to dapper for that meeting 
<highvoltage> JaneW: ok, docs it is then
<JaneW> k
<JaneW> jsgotangco: hit it
<jsgotangco> We're frozen at the moment for flight 7 but we already have a yelp page and a firefox startpage
<jsgotangco> but with so close to release, should we even consider opening up the firefox hompeage for translation
<cbx33> hmmm
<jsgotangco> localisation of firefox is *quite* complicated
<JaneW> jsgotangco: what's your call on it?
<jsgotangco> im not sure if ogra_ is familiar with it
<JaneW> jsgotangco: is it worth attempting?
<highvoltage> on documentation, if someone wants to work on a 'getting started with lab administration' section for the getting started guide, that would be great.
<ogra_> i'm a slacker and didnt include them in edubuntu-docs yet :)
<highvoltage> even if it's something simple like adding users and managing users/groups.
<ogra_> sorry for the disconnect
<jsgotangco> JaneW: im not familiar with it at all, Diziet made a wiki page, but it made my brain fizzle
<JaneW> jsgotangco: :/
<ogra_> jsgotangco, thats my job to sort the technical side
<jsgotangco> although the start page is just 4 or 5 sentences
<JaneW> jsgotangco: we can;t do anything risky and cause instability, we'll be lynched
<ogra_> i'll sort it with Diziet
<JaneW> or worse
<jsgotangco> if we could finalise the page and make amendments, we can open up translation of the firefox page at least
<highvoltage> ogra: perhaps not strictly doc, but will firefox have links to schooltool/schoolbell, or will he have it in the start page at least?
<jsgotangco> no need for rosetta, just send in the same html page would do
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: it should really
<cbx33> school advocacy doc is growing big, anyone that want to contribute would be welcome https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy/Planning
<ogra_> jsgotangco, did you add that ?
<jsgotangco> i was thinking of directly linking from the upper right of the page
<jsgotangco> ogra_: no not yet, i was waiting for you
<cbx33> jsgotangco: moodle too?
* jsgotangco needs to install a server later
<highvoltage> JaneW: that would be nice
<ogra_> nope
<ogra_> cbx33, sabdfl wants to go for LAMS
<LaserJock> sorry, I'm still new. Is there a Edubuntu doc repo? I've seen some stuff in the doc team repo but I don't think that is all of it.
<cbx33> ah ok
<ogra_> which is far beyond moodle
<cbx33> never used it
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: its our own svn too
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: im the only one using it
<flint> ogra, what is LAMS?
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: ah, ok
<cbx33> got a link ogra ?
<jsgotangco> LAMS should be good
<LaserJock> cbx33: google probably does ;-)
<cbx33> :p
<ogra_> lamsfoundation.org
<flint> cool
<highvoltage> nice
<jsgotangco> it needs java though no?
<flint> ogra, the schooltool gang will be less than thrilled with LAMS eh?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: can you possibly create a wiki page for how to access edubuntu repro, and how to get documents from it?
<Bluekuja> highvoltage: there are news from the drupal translation?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: sure its not really much to look at though, its basically the docteam repo in trunk
<ogra_> highvoltage++
<highvoltage> Bluekuja: yes, it's not currently supported, although Hedgemadge has a friend who's working on some php code that could provide a solution
<cbx33> nice
<highvoltage> Bluekuja: but in the meantime, nothing stops us from doing manual translations
<Bluekuja> highvoltage: great, it would be really nice to have a translated page in the edubuntu website
* ogra_ has to leave soon
* JaneW too
<cbx33> are we over time?
<JaneW> yes
<ogra_> you can, indeed
<JaneW> ok, last words
<highvoltage> Bluekuja: yep, i suggest you start translating existing pages alread
<JaneW> artwork seems to be starting to come together
<Bluekuja> highvoltage: ok, where i can find them?
<ogra_> yeah
<cbx33> lisa's hard at work
<JaneW> and we have seen some nice first drafts of ideas from cbx33 's wife
<Bluekuja> highvoltage: drupal website?
<ogra_> we had some new proposals from the marketing
<LaserJock> any status change on the Win95 clone?
<JaneW> please thanks lisa for those
<highvoltage> on artwork, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/JonathanCarter/emblem <-- ECC emblem :)
<cbx33> I will
<ogra_> seems we have no say about the chalkboard 
<Bluekuja> nice one highvoltage
<Bluekuja> hehe
<JaneW> highvoltage: nice, but make it ec
<highvoltage> ogra_: OMG
<cbx33> ogra_: but we're trying t provide alternatives
<JaneW> else it's hard to distinguish
<ogra_> so the dapper release will have a chalkboard wallpaper and all other elements will get adjusted accordingly
<highvoltage> JaneW: ok
<cbx33> ogra_: that's insane
<ogra_> cbx33, no go ...
<JaneW> yes our default wall paper will be chalkboard themed, it is being improved
<ogra_> we'll include lisas wallpaper in any case
<JaneW> and we want to add some ROCKING alternatives
<ogra_> but it wont be the default theme
<JaneW> and then make sure everone switches to that :)
<LaserJock> ogra_: so what about the color scheme? will it be no longer orange?
<ogra_> eah
<ogra_> LaserJock, it never was orange :)
<cbx33> ogra: I can't believe we're being forced on this
<cbx33> mustard :p
<jsgotangco> will it blend with red?
<ogra_> we have a dark bordeaux
<JaneW> cbx33: no it's drak green (chalkboard colour)
<LaserJock> ogra_: well, whatever. I'm terrible with colors (just ask my wife)
<JaneW> drak=dark
<ogra_> i'm working with the new wallpaper as background currently, and the red somewhat "works" 
<ogra_> but i'll see what the design agency proposes
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
* cbx33 is gonna cry
<cbx33> :p
<kjcole> ogra_: oh you and your European spellings: It's spelled border. ;-)  (Showing my hick 'merican ways.)
<ogra_> :)+
<cbx33> is that a dodgy goaty :
<JaneW> kjcole: tsk
<jsgotangco> i gotta go downstairs first for late dinner
<jsgotangco> anything else for me?
<highvoltage> ogra_: dark bordeax? not windows 95 teal? ;)
<JaneW> maroon, or burgandy are easier to spell
<JaneW> highvoltage: teal is blue/green!
<jsgotangco> brb
<cbx33> jsgotangco: expect docs soon :p
<kjcole> university president.  See news reports.
<ogra_> highvoltage, the design agency will propse the default window border colors and i'll have to adjust the theme
<highvoltage> JaneW: sorry, i was thinking about the chalkboard color
<ogra_> anyway, i have to leave
<cbx33> see ya later ogra_ 
<cbx33> and thank you
<highvoltage> cheers ogra_ 
<JaneW> highvoltage: ok
* ogra_ has visitors sitting infront waiting that he stops silent typing
<kjcole> Oops.  I said "Sorry to have been late -- and quiet.  Chaos and minor revolt concerning an unpopular choice of president for Gallaudet.  See news reports.
<Kamion> JaneW: "burgundy" ;-)
<highvoltage> JaneW: can you hit your hammer to adjourne the meeting?
<ogra_> feel free to go on, xubuntu starts in 20 min :)
<LaserJock> hmm, well this has been a lot shorter than CC meetings ;-)
<JaneW> Kamion: yes, that's the one
<JaneW> ok meeting adjourned
<JaneW> thanks everyone
<highvoltage> thanks!
<JaneW> back to #edubuntu
<kjcole> Ta-ta
<JaneW> FYI I updated the agenda
<LaserJock> JaneW: great
<cbx33> thanks JaneW 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 May 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 10 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu
<nomed> hi all
<jsgotangco> hi
<janimo> hi all
<freeflying> hi all
<nomed> agenda ?
<nomed> i hadn't the time to write down anything :(
<janimo> no agenda as usual :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<janimo> we can talk about anything
<janimo> like current status
<janimo> or whatever comes up
<jsgotangco> is flight 7 being baked for xubuntu?
<nomed> janimo, ok
<nomed> i can explain the current status of the icon theme
<nomed> that i would see on next release if possible
<nomed> but i guess i'm in late
<nomed> i still didn't send the patch as i would get more feedbacks by xfce upstreamers
<janimo> nomed, xfce upstream seems positive about it.
<janimo> did you get in contact with tango?
<nomed> as there is something that should be fixed
<janimo> jsgotangco: yes tomorrow is flight 7
<nomed> janimo, dobey is waiting
<janimo> just found out :)
<janimo> nomed: waiting for what?
<nomed> i send the patch
<nomed> but i asked to upstreamer to change some desktop files
<janimo> oh, so you're waiting for him? 
<nomed> no answers about that
<nomed> solution:
<nomed> or add not-needed icons name to xl file
<nomed> and i do not like it very much
<nomed> or patch desktop files
<nomed> and i do not like it very much
<nomed> no reason for having xfce4-settings and xfce-settings-show
<nomed> same icon ...
<nomed> different name
<nomed> same app
<nomed> one is used within the desktop file the other within the menu
<nomed> janimo, same for xfprint and xfce4-printer
<nomed> and some others
<janimo> I remember that part of your mail upstream
<janimo> I guess you could sent a patch to xfce bugzilla for it
<janimo> they should apply it
<janimo> I'd not like to patch our packages too much if it can be done via upstream
<janimo> although xfprint author is busy nowadays
<nomed> janimo, absolutely yes
<nomed> ok i'll do that
<janimo> nomed: ok thanks
<nomed> i'll send patches over bugzilla
<janimo> it should not be too many sources referencing those icons
<janimo> maybe only .desktop files
<nomed> yes
<janimo> ok make sure it's against svn trunk
<janimo> since we are not quite the same
<nomed> but i 'm goinging to choose icon naming entries for them
<janimo> very close but not up to date
<janimo> sure
<nomed> it would be nice to have some serious feedbacks
<nomed> anyway they told me they 'll trust
<nomed> and i do not wait anymore
<janimo> yes
<nomed> then ...
<janimo> right the sooner the more chances we have to get them in by dapper
<nomed> for the xfce-settings-show panel|dialog or whatever you want to call it :)
<nomed> we need to choose a gtk2-theme for xubuntu
<nomed> and add gtk-icon-theme="Tango"
<nomed> or Tango-xfce or Xubuntu-icons
<nomed> or the gtk theme icons will not show up
<janimo> how does that app differ from the rest that it has these errors?
<nomed> it loads first icons
<janimo> what does it have to do with the gtk2-them?
<janimo> ah, hardcoded icons?
<nomed> more or less
<nomed> janimo, i didn't check the code
<nomed> but i've had the impression that there is something wrong on the sequence
<janimo> so does the code need to be changed (in principle) to use a specific gtk2-theme?
<nomed> janimo, not really
<janimo> I wonder how xfce devs handle this since they use othere gtk/icon themes too
<nomed> you can just add gtk-icon-theme="Foo"
<nomed> to the $HOME/gtkrc-2.0
<janimo> in the .desktop ?
<janimo> we cannot add stuff  to $HOME
<nomed> or gtkrc
<janimo> the most we can to is add default configs to /etc/xdg
<nomed> janimo, yes
<janimo> which we already do for gtk and icons theme
<janimo> clearlooks+tango
<nomed> that's why i told you we should choose a gtk2-theme
<nomed> then to that file
<nomed> "gtkrc"
<janimo> if that apps disregards these settings it need to be fixed by another approach
<nomed> we echo gtk-theme-icon=Tango
<janimo> but we should not create stuff in $HOME
<janimo> that's against  the rules
<nomed> janimo, can't we have a gtkrc theme for xubuntu ?
<janimo> nomed sure
<nomed> a debian native pkge ?
<janimo> but not put in home
<nomed> janimo, or or :)
<janimo> well is that different than the gtk engine?
<nomed> or in $HOME/gtkrc-2.0
<janimo> we have gtk2-engines-xfce already
<nomed> or in /usr/share/themes/Xubuntu/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
<janimo> nomed, packages MUST NOT touch stuff in $HOME :)
<nomed> janimo, ok :D
<janimo> the second is ok
<nomed> so /usr/share/themes/Xubuntu/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
<janimo> but I wonder if the default theme does not do that alreday
<nomed> i was just explaining all the solutions :)
<nomed> janimo, no
<nomed> it always uses Rodent icons
<nomed> even if they do not really exist
<janimo> dpkg -L gtk2-engines-xfce
<nomed> more then hardcoded
<janimo> there are plenty of gtkrc files there
<nomed> janimo, we'll do that just for xubuntu theme
<janimo> but none is the default rigth now
<nomed> and we'll explain how to have it working on other themes
<janimo> but the ubuntu theme is clearlooks now do you mean we change it?
<nomed> if we can't find a way to patch xfce-mcs-plugins
<janimo> I am still a bit confused by the difference between gtk engines and themes though
<nomed> janimo, ehhehe
<nomed> yep
<nomed> we'll not touch the engine
<nomed> just the theme
<janimo> the engines is code which comes with some themes which add soem touch to it
<janimo> eight?
<janimo> right?
<nomed> the engine is what the gtkrc uses 
<nomed> within gtkrc you set colors for ex
<janimo> so we have the clearlooks theme set by default which I assume uses the clearlooks engine
* janimo checks
<nomed> yes
<nomed> not the ubuntulook one
<janimo> indeed
<nomed> janimo, what you have to check is
<janimo> so we can patch one of the gtk2-engines-xfce themes to use the clearlooks engine
<nomed>  /usr/share/themes/
<janimo> and tweak it to whatever it takes to get the icons right
<nomed> janimo, nhaa
<nomed> wait
<nomed> gtkrc file is what is called gtk2-theme-foo
<janimo> indeed
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 May 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 10 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 11 May 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<nomed> that depends on gtk2-engine
<nomed> we can for ex
<nomed> momdify  ubuntulooks gtkrc file
<nomed> the ubuntu default theme
<nomed> in a way it'll use the colors we like
<nomed> and add to it
<nomed> gtk-icon-theme="Tango"
<janimo> you dont't mean modify but copy and modify right? :)
<nomed> yes
<nomed> :)
<janimo> is the icon-theme part of the gtkrc??
<nomed> janimo, anyway it would be nice if source could be patched
<nomed> xfce source of xfce-settings-show
<janimo> nomed, if upstream does not answer shortly I'll look at the source
<nomed> so icon-theme doesn't need to be part of gtkrc file
<janimo> I tmay be rodent is hardcoded and that's all
<nomed> janimo, i see benny is cleaning stuff
<janimo> we have another bug (again) preferred applictaions do not have a mcs entry icon
<janimo> it used to work once
<nomed> i hope he'll find the time to check it
<janimo> anyhtng else to discuss?
<janimo> questions?
<janimo> does anyone use xubuntu here with non-english locale?
<janimo> if so is there anything that can be improved in this regard?
<_sHaDe> chi usa evolution di voi?
<janimo> _sHaDe: /join #ubuntu
<_sHaDe> ?
<_sHaDe> sorry :)
<janimo> use the #ubuntu channel for user request :)
<nomed> umm ... 
<nomed> janimo, is it fine for u if i patch ubuntu pckges .. <-- could u read this ?
<janimo> nope
<nomed> i was talking alone
<nomed> :)
<janimo> did not see any movement in the past 20 minutes
<janimo> :)
<nomed> yes .. i was  talking with me :D
<nomed> http://phpfi.com/115896
<janimo> nomed, just bugzilla patches firts
<janimo> then I'll upload as they apply them
<janimo> as for orage plugin the panel I agree
<janimo> in the panel I mean
<janimo> I don;t think I changed anything in the mcs -lugins package but I'll check
<janimo> nomed, I think the exec is ok there since it will mostly be called from the menu not directly from cmdline
<janimo> so /usr/lib is ok imho
<janimo> wait.
<janimo> upstream and us both install in /usr/bin
<nomed> janimo, dpkg -L orage | grep orage_plugin ?
<nomed> is it ok ?
<janimo> you mean a and .la?
<janimo> I have to delete those
<janimo> or something else?
<janimo> nomed, can you mail me these concerns?
<janimo> need to go away for a while
<janimo> thanks
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 May 02:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 10 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 11 May 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<zul_> @schedule Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 03 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 16:00: Technical Board | 10 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 11 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 May 08:00: Edubuntu
<Spee_Der> Greetings to all.
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-09
<Surak> ubugtu, sit! @schedule bahia
<Surak> @schedule bahia
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Bahia: 03 May 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 17:00: Technical Board | 10 May 09:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 10:30: Xubuntu | 11 May 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 May 09:00: Edubuntu
<Surak> @schedule bahia
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Bahia: 03 May 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 17:00: Technical Board | 10 May 09:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 10:30: Xubuntu | 11 May 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 May 09:00: Edubuntu
<Lathiat> @schedule Perth
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Perth: 04 May 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 May 04:00: Technical Board | 10 May 20:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 21:30: Xubuntu | 11 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 May 20:00: Edubuntu
<nhaines> Ooh, I didn't know that command.
<nhaines> @schedule Los Angeles
<nhaines> blah.  :)
<nhaines> @schedule Los_Angeles
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 03 May 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 13:00: Technical Board | 10 May 05:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 06:30: Xubuntu | 11 May 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 May 05:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 10 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 11 May 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<mdz> good morning
<dholbach> good morning
<mdz> if you aren't here, please speak up
<Mithrandir> fsvo morning being night.
<Keybuk> what's the treshold?
<Keybuk> I mean, I'm only here in body
<Mithrandir> wouldn't it be easier to be here in spirit, given that this is IRC?
<Kinnison> I'm only here in spirits
<Kinnison> woooo
<Kinnison> haunting the channel 'n all that jazz
<Keybuk> Kinnison: ah, you fixed it
<Kinnison> Keybuk: thanks for earlier,
<Kinnison> aye, it came back at around 01:10
* Kinnison apologises for his current phone voice but the chest infection has done bizarre things to my vocal cords
<Riddell> hi all
<mdz> Kamion,fabbione,seb128,pitti,heno,mvo,doko,iwj,sfllaw,BenC,ogra,JaneW: ping
* mvo yawns heartily
<ogra> meeep
<sfllaw> pong.
* ogra is frustrated
<doko> pong
<Surak> @schedule bahia
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Bahia: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 May 17:00: Technical Board | 10 May 09:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 10:30: Xubuntu | 11 May 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 May 09:00: Edubuntu
<mdz> pitti: good morning
<mdz> dholbach: seen seb?
<JaneW> pong
<dholbach> mdz: not yet
<sfllaw> mdz: We saw seb yesterday.
<dholbach> mdz: he was definitely aware of the meeting
<pitti> hello
<Surak> seb128 was @ @ubuntu-devel some hours ago
<sladen> bah </battery>
<seb128> hi
<dholbach> heya seb128 :)
<Surak> seb128, you won't die anymore
<Surak> :-)
<mdz> heno won't be able to make it
<seb128> Surak: I didn't indent to, and I didn't before ... why "anymore"? :)
<mdz> could someone UKish ring Kamion?
<Surak> seb128: it's a common saying in brazil. When some people are talking about someone and then this person suddenly appears, we use to say: "seb, you won't die anymore"
<seb128> ah, k ;)
<Keybuk> mdz: no answer
<mdz> SMS sent to BenC
<mdz> time to get started
<mdz> reverse order tonight
<mdz> sfllaw: you're up first
<Keybuk> mdz: gah, that hurts my head :)
<sfllaw> We had a bug night tonight.
<sfllaw> And I did a bunch of triaging and wiki writing.
<mdz> I see a bug moon rising
<sfllaw> Plans?  Figure out what we can do to make BugSquad better.
<sfllaw> Maybe hold another BugDay next week.
<sfllaw> 21:48 < welshbyte> going on UTC+1 time HUG day saw 28 new bugs opened and 65 closed.
<sfllaw> And a whole whack were triaged.
<dholbach> and lots triaged
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> We definitely should keep up the Bug Days weekly until release.
<mdz> the list of confirmed, open, major bugs looks pretty good
<mdz> but it's difficult to take it seriously with so many bugs yet to be triaged
<mdz> dholbach: agreed
<mdz> sfllaw: how did you discussions go regarding the subsystems we discussed?
<sfllaw> It's likely that weekly meetings can build enthusiasm and train our volunteers.
<sfllaw> I talked with everyone but BenC.
<sfllaw> I distilled the X triage requirements into a wiki page.
<Mithrandir> sfllaw: you have?
<dholbach> I think 85 people in the channel were a record we set these days. :-)
<sfllaw> Everything else is still in my head.
<seb128> sfllaw: we talked about what?
<sfllaw> Gah.
<sfllaw> :P
<Mithrandir> sfllaw: I can't remember talking with you, apart from some random chatter about a few bugs?
<dholbach> seb128: you had a mail conversation :-)
<mdz> he hasn't talked with *everyone*; there were certain people I suggested he speak with
* pitti waves to sfllaw, too :)
<Mithrandir> mdz: oh, ok. :-)
<seb128> oh, just to "important" people like dholbach so :p
<Keybuk> sfllaw: we talked? :)
<dholbach> hahahaha
* dholbach hugs seb128
* seb128 hugs dholbach
<mdz> easy, guys :-)
<mdz> sfllaw: have you read over the HelpingWithBugs / Bugs documentation?
<sfllaw> I've actually chatted with many people.  Mostly because my triaging has sent bugs there.
<mdz> sfllaw: are there any areas where it is obviously lacking which might help make the bug days more effective?
<sfllaw> mdz: I have.  And made changes to parts of it.
<sfllaw> I wrote stuff in DebuggingProgramCrashes
<sfllaw> That was for this BugDay.
<sfllaw> I'll do more, probably with stuff about how to prepare patches for bugs.
<sfllaw> debdiff and the like.
<mdz> perhaps we could include some statistics in the bugday announcements
<sfllaw> That's an excellent idea.
<Surak> mdz: +1
<mdz> sfllaw: the count of bugs in each of those reports I sent you would be a good starting point
<mdz> I've asked LP for more automated reporting, but I expect it will take some time
<sfllaw> You mean those crazy-long URLs?
<mdz> yes
<Surak> sfllaw: let me know when you have this patch stuff done. I'm interested in translating it as soon as it's ready.
<mdz> you know, the ones I said needed to get shorter ;-)
<mdz> (and I didn't mean the URLs!)
<sfllaw> tinyurl is my friend.
<sfllaw> I think the Needs Info list has gotten longer, actually.
<mdz> sfllaw: would be nice to have some updates on the bug count in your update at these meetings as well
<sfllaw> I'll remember to do that.
<mdz> sfllaw: thanks
<mdz> seb128: next?
<seb128> catchup with bugs and mails from my week of VAC, bug triage, backporting patches from CVS and fixed bugs for dapper
<seb128> next week: the same 
<mdz> seb128: how was the part of your vacation when you were NOT on irc?
<seb128> very good
<mdz> rested?
<seb128> the weather was nice
<seb128> yep, got some sleep too
<seb128> I'm fully of energy for dapper now ;)
<pitti> PHEAR, you bugs! :)
<mdz> seb128,dholbach: of new bugs which come in, are you seeing a lot of duplicates or more new bugs?
<mdz> seb128: sleep is good medicine for the soul
<bddebian> pitti: :-)
<dholbach> both, but an awful lot of duplicates
<seb128> as dholbach said
<mdz> I wonder if people are searching and not finding, or not searching
<seb128> lot of new bugs too
<seb128> many details too
<mdz> details?
<seb128> like "that app doesn't use themeable icons"
<mdz> minor and wishlist?
<seb128> right
<mdz> those should be fast to deal with :-)
<dholbach> stuff that is good forwarded upstream to be done in the new cycle, but not now
<seb128> not a lot of important issues, which is good
<mdz> yes, the smoke is clearing a little bit, and I think overall quality is actually pretty good
<mdz> but it is hard to be confident when we aren't sure what is lurking in the unconfirmed pile :-)
* bddebian is trying
<seb128> I read every desktop bug we get basically
<mdz> bddebian: thanks for your help
<seb128> and try to milestone for dapper anything we should fix
* Surak found some to forward upstream, and quite some dupes.
<Keybuk> mdz: generally I prefer people *not* to try and find duplicates themselves
<Keybuk> nearly every time that happens, it just results in noise on the bug because they have something different to the reporter
<Keybuk> (for my bugs, anyway)
<mdz> I think that if we can catch up on all bugs filed before April 27 before RC, we should have a good idea what we're dealing with
<seb128> I'm pretty happy with the bug situation for dapper atm (out of the number of dups and wishlists we get), the "to fix for dapper" list is pretty short
<mdz> most of the beta feedback probably came in within the 7 days after beta
<iwj> Keybuk: Yes, I agree.  People are very bad about even managing to stay on topic on one firefox bug report.  The `it's too slow' one is about the worst for that.
<mdz> Keybuk: it's usually fairly harmless when someone comments asking if a bug is a duplicate
<mdz> incorrectly marking them, of course, is a different story
<mdz> iwj: it's also fixed!
<mdz> (thanks)
<mdz> the forums users will be thrilled
<mdz> anyway
<mdz> seb128: thanks
<mdz> Riddell: next?
<Keybuk> mdz: the problem is even more when people just leap onto an existing bug -- without filing their own
<Riddell> done: bugfixing, kubuntu ubiquity especially fun with qtparted, linuxtag planning, chat with sfllaw
<Riddell> next week: flight 7, linuxtag, kubuntu ubiquity (finnish off qtparted fixes, do location map)
<Keybuk> I can think of a dozen in the past week I've actually had to talk to two separate people on the same bug
* Keybuk shakes his head at infinity
<sladen> having the duplicates come is a very handy thing, it gives an idea of the scale of the problem and helps confirm it by having a completely separately sourced account of the bug (and the combination of the reports is better as the second bug information often includes pointers that would have been mentioned if the second person had just Me Too-ed the first bug report
<mdz> Riddell: what's left on the kubiquity hit list?
* infinity apologises for losing track of time discussing stuff in -devel.
<infinity> In my defense, for the first time ever, I didn't get pinged about the meeting. :)
<sfllaw> infinity: We're already at R.
<mdz> infinity: ha, I saw you talking there and assumed you were here too
<mdz> infinity: (that's why)
<infinity> mdz: Oops. :)
<Riddell> mdz: qtparted has issues, that author obviously has never tested it on a mac for example
<Riddell> but in general it's shaping up really well
<mdz> Riddell: does it basically work on i386ish partitions?
<Riddell> yes, it does
<mdz> Riddell: you have perhaps open bugs where you're the package contact
<mdz> we need to start seeing that list shrink
<mdz> if qtparted won't be ready on powerpc, so be it
<mdz> I'm sure most of them are upstream, but they need to be triaged so that we can see if there are severe issues
<mdz> Riddell: are you reading your bug mail from launchpad?
<Riddell> I expect ubiquity to be out of the way by early next week so heavy triage mode by then
<Riddell> yes, anything for kde or kubuntu goes straight to my inbox
<mdz> early next week is only 2 weeks from RC
<mdz> Riddell: I ask because I come across bugs where the reporter says they are fixed, etc. but the bug remains untouched
<mdz> or the severity is wrong
<bddebian> Hmm maybe I should spend some time on kubuntu bugs?
<mdz> there seem to be a good bunch of folks helping to triage the bugs, which is good
<Riddell> I do read them all, but I often don't respond
<Riddell> bddebian: always welcome :)
<dholbach> Riddell: you might want to try to set up "weekly bug tasks" for the kubuntu community - that's what we did for the desktop team
<bddebian> Riddell: Do they get assigned to kubuntu team?
<mdz> Riddell: if you've taken the time to read the bug, it's worth the extra time to fix the severity, reject bogus reports, confirm the bug, etc.
<Riddell> bddebian: to kubuntu-team yes
<bddebian> OK, sorry to interrupt
<mdz> Riddell: of all the bugs on your list, only one is targeted for dapper (34321) and it's minor
<mdz> surely there are kubuntu bugs which need to be fixed for the release
<Riddell> I've never used the targeting function
<mdz> and we need to have that data recorded in malone
<mdz> Riddell: do you keep a list elsewhere?
<Riddell> a handwritten one of things I know I need to work on the coming week
<iwj> I've been using on-paper todo lists too, it seems to work OK.  But you have to be careful to catch stuff as it comes in and write it onto thelist.
<mdz> Riddell: ok, we should talk about ways to keep more organized there...but not tonight
<mdz> paper is not very good because no one but you can see it
<mdz> it's important that we have a central list of bugs to be fixed for the release, so that we know how close we are
<mdz> malone is the best place to keep it
<iwj> It's a shame that Malone is so awkward.
<ogra> hey, its getting better
<dholbach> I agree with ogra.
<mdz> I've been using it for many hours every day, and there's really not that much to complain about
* mvo thinks the advanced search is quite ok
<Mithrandir> I find it quite usable now.
<mdz> right, moving on
<mdz> Riddell: thanks
<mdz> pitti: next?
* sladen wishes that Description, Subscription, Status and leaving a comment could be done in one page-refresh rather than 5
<pitti> reducing-duplication: no progress since last week
<pitti> general stuff done in the past two week:
<pitti>  * tons of security updates
<pitti>  * almost managed to catch up with my bugs inbox
<pitti>  * bug fixing
<pitti> plan for next week:
<iwj> And yes, of course a paper list doesn't mean you don't have to keep the stuff up to date in Malone.  Think of it as a cache.
<pitti>  * torture infinity harder with PHP security update
<pitti>  * bugs, bugs, bugs
<pitti> not a lot to tell, just a lot to do :)
* infinity nods his assent to that.
<Keybuk> sladen: I tend to open them all in tabs, and click through each one
<mdz> pitti: seems like security updates have been heavy; are you caught up now?
<infinity> My list gets shorter each week, but has more real work too.
<mdz> Keybuk: me too
* Kinnison AOLs, tabs rock
<pitti> mdz: kernel finally built, xorg too; some smaller ones are still pending
<mdz> pitti: langpacks in good shape for release?
<pitti> mdz: but at least all that mozilla & friends stuff lies behind me now
<pitti> mdz: need to be updated again, of course, but the process is working well now
<mdz> pitti: xorg?  I thought fabbione said we weren't vulnerable to the latest one
<pitti> mdz: we didn't have any troubles with the last ones, so we can be reasonably confident now
<infinity> mdz: There's been another since that one.
<pitti> mdz: there's even a newer vuln :)
<mdz> ah
<mdz> I don't read much except my inbox and malone ;-)
<pitti> mdz: anyway, I still need to fix these three handfuls of packages to generate a pot file for rosetta import
<mdz> pitti: I thought the missing pot files were sorted?
<pitti> mdz: not yet, sorry
<pitti> some of them have been fixed, mainly the xfce ones
<mdz> pitti: I remember some who promised to help you ;-)
* mvo coughs
* pitti will go around prodding people RSN
* mdz looks at mvo
<mvo> pitti: please give me a list via PM
<seb128> pitti: GNOME packages should be fine, if they are not let me know
<pitti> mvo: will, thanks
<mdz> pitti: thanks
<mdz> ogra: next?
<ogra> * general: doc work, bug triage, lots of edubuntu artwork discussions and trying to calm the community about the default wallpaper, preparing first edubuntu council meeting, writing the tech chapters for the cookbook, checking the new edubuntu testplans with the new edubuntu test team, preparing linuxtag talk
<ogra> * next-week: more bug triage (especially looking at bug 39656 and bug 39294 aside from the screensaver bugs ) , uploading all the doc work, linuxtag talk.  
<ogra> seems i have to skip flight 7 since i see no way to free 8 Meg on the i386 CD currently :( (and have no clue what suddenly ate that space) 
<ogra> (again: please, please announce flight CDs in advance, i have planned no time for flight preparation at all this week and wasnt aware we'd do one tomorrow until today)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39656 in sabayon "prevents ltsp logins" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39656
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39294 in ltsp "No ldm login on the thinclient" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39294
<Mithrandir> ogra: beta 1 was two weeks ago.  When did you think we were going to do f7?
<ogra> Mithrandir, not a week after breta2
<ogra> Mithrandir, edubuntu usually is oversized and requires preparation
<ogra> Kamion promised me to announce flights earlier
<mdz> ogra: I need you to work on your assigned bug list, especially the high-severity and dapper-targeted bugs
<Mithrandir> ogra: it was talked about earlier this week too.
<ogra> Mithrandir, where ? 
<mdz> ogra: what's this about the cookbook?
<Mithrandir> ogra: #u-d
<ogra> mdz, the ltsp related parts need to be writen by me (mostly just listing lts.conf params that i have to document anyway)
<iwj> Talking about something on #u-d with whoever happens to be there at the time isn't a substitute for an announcement.
<mdz> ogra: surely that can wait until after the release
<ogra> mdz, ok, but 39294 is serious for edubuntu
<mdz> Mithrandir: iwj is right; perhaps it would be a good idea to start sending pre-announcements of milestones to -devel-announce
<ogra> ++
<Mithrandir> mdz: ok.
<mdz> ogra: it's also been assigned to you for 3 weeks; what's happening with it?
<ogra> mdz, i didnt look deep into it yet 
<mdz> if it's a serious bug for edubuntu, it's more important than artwork or documentation
<mdz> please make bugs your #1 priority
<ogra> right, but it requires equipment i'm not near until monday
<mdz> ogra: do you need a vmware license?
<ogra> mdz, nope, i have enough HW, its just the current situation 
<ogra> it will be solved on monday
<mdz> we're short on time, talk tomorrow
<mdz> ogra: thanks
<mdz> mvo: next
<ogra> and wont occur again
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - new version of the dist-upgrade tool with various fixes (sources.list rewrite, terminal, logs) uploaded
<mvo> - bug triage/fixing (gksu, update-notifier, update-manager, pango [race on upgrade, #41297] )
<mvo> - i18n work (language-selector, pango-libthai)
<mvo> - ugprade testing
<mvo> - Espresso prototype work for a self-update mechanism
<mvo> - preparing the linuxtag talk
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - more bugfixing/bug triage
<mvo> Blocked:
<mvo> - sysadmin setup for the auto-dist-upgrade testing
<mdz> mvo: I saw a bug comment from you about a bug found during auto-dist-upgrade testing and assumed that was unblocked
<mvo> mdz: I have a local setup on i386 and amd64 
<mdz> mvo: can you send me a mail tomorrow with your idea for the espresso update mechanism?
<infinity> mvo: I'll do PPC in my house if you want, then we're covered.
<mvo> mdz: I have a bzr branch for it,
<bddebian> Hmm, this all sounds like work.  Maybe I don't ever want to be a -dev
<mvo> infinity: cool, lets do it tomorrow
<mvo> mdz: I can mail you the details
<infinity> mvo: I think the "run it in the DC" thing can wait until post-release, as long as we have SOMETHING.
<mvo> infinity: *nod*
<mdz> mvo: send me the code as well, then; I'd like to review
<infinity> mvo: Ping me tomorrow, lucifer will be at your disposal.
<mvo> mdz: ok
<mvo> infinity: thanks!
* mvo wonders about the name a bit
<mdz> mvo: your +assignedbugs is pretty huge
<mvo> mdz: I know, but the stuff with "major" shouldn't be that big anymore
<mvo> some bugs just take so long to fix :/
<mdz> mvo: yes, very few major.  have you looked at the rest and corrected severities?
<Kamion> damnit, sorry for sleeping through; here now
<mdz> Kamion: welcome, sleeping beauty
<mvo> mdz: I try to keep up with the list, but need to do some more triaging for the last two days
<Kamion> Riddell: the other major missing bit of KDE ubiquity that's obvious to users is the timezone selector
<mvo> mdz: its on my list for tomorrow
<mdz> mvo: try to prioritize triaging incoming bugs over known, normal bugs, to make sure that we are aware of any major bugs
<mvo> mdz: ok
<mdz> mvo: thanks
<mdz> Mithrandir: next
<Mithrandir> misc: casper hacking, flight-7 preparations, fixed popcon, some bug triage
<Mithrandir> next week: flight-7 release, bug triage, book flights to Paris
<Mithrandir> blocked on: getting the new kernel into the archive
<Riddell> Kamion: that was on my todo item
<Mithrandir> Ben promised me a new kernel in the archive eight or so hours ago, but still no sign of it.
<Mithrandir> and we want that for f7
<mdz> Mithrandir: your bug list is relatively manageable by comparison to some; how about teaming up with Simon to help out with the Unconfirmed list next week?
<Kamion> Riddell: oh yes, so it was, thanks
<sfllaw> Mithrandir: That would be much appreciated.
<Mithrandir> mdz: post-flight-7, sure.
<mdz> Mithrandir: exactly
<sfllaw> Thanks.
<Mithrandir> I need to do some xkb work too, but that's manageable.
<mdz> Mithrandir: the only amd64 bug I saw which looked serious is that abiword "save as" bug
<Keybuk> uh ... where did the datacentre just go? :P
<Keybuk> oh, is back
<Mithrandir> mdz: yeah, I just noticed it.  I'll investigate after a bit of sleep.
<sfllaw> Sorry.  That was my teleporter.
<mdz> right
<mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
<mdz> Kinnison: next?
<mdz> Kinnison: are you feeling any better?
<Kinnison> A bit better
<Kinnison> here goes
<Kinnison> distro: However I have gotten g-p-m 2.14.3-0ubuntu1 done and a lot of bugwork catchup from when I was ill. Other than that I've been working on bits handed to me as general bugs.
<Kinnison> launchpad: assisted infinity in diagnosing a bug in the binary packages of goffice. examined and reported on any publisher impact from marking warty as obsolete.
<Kinnison> ongoing: bug triage and fixing in the general sense on the march to release.
<Kinnison> ongoing-launchpad: whatever comes up (there was something but my sickness addled mind can't remember it)
<Kinnison> buglist: long but I believe should shorten fairly soon. I have a big g-p-m checkover to do over the next few days.
<Kinnison> confused: am I going to Paris?
<Kinnison> [end] 
* infinity needs to add "confused" stanzas to his updates in the future.
<bddebian> heh
<ogra> Kinnison, Paris -> are you distro team or not ? 
<Kinnison> ogra: now yes, june 20, no
<ogra> :)
<ogra> oh
<JaneW> heh
<mdz> Kinnison: your bug list is pretty tame; Simon could use your help as well
<Kinnison> mdz: Okay sure
<mdz> Kinnison: make sure you look at anything I've marked for dapper, though
<mdz> Kinnison: see what you think of that new powernowd that's been requested
<Kinnison> yeah, I was reviewing the diff of that earlier before my eyes exploded
<infinity> Kinnison: Yes, please do.  I'm pretty sure we want/need it, but it needs to be tested a bit.
<Keybuk> Kinnison: it'd be really nice if the save-session bug could be fixed before dapper
<mdz> Kinnison: thanks
<mdz> Keybuk: next?
<Keybuk> * "Solved" the IBM T42 Docking Station problem, the docking station appears earlier in the PCI order than the internal IDE, which is why it gets priority -- no known solution to this.
<Keybuk> * Currently testing patch to move mounting of remote filesystems to a network up event, while retaining support for remote /usr.  Promising, will upload if I get no problems.
<Keybuk> * Several Network Manager bugs fixed in new upload, discovered that nm actually relies on wpasupplicant once it's started and that disabling it for non-encrypted networks actually broke nm.
<Keybuk> * Documented FTP Mastery stuff at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration
<Keybuk> * Flight to Paris booked.
<Keybuk> * Have started grepping the entire bug list for anything that looks like undetected hardware, failing to mount root fs, and "180-hangs"
<infinity> Kinnison: (forum and list users claim the sid package "works just great on dapper")
<Keybuk> * Milestones - have two bugs with a 6.06 milestone, and neither of them is going to be done before then; what's the appropriate procedure here?  bug 4505 and bug 7839
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 4505 in bubblemon "bubblemon: merge new debian version" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4505
<Keybuk> * Bug Misc - mdz, you frequently jump onto bugs and point things out, or ask questions (and cause them to be asked) but don't actually subscribe to the bug -- this makes it hard to keep in contact with you about it ... no idea how long it'd take you to respond otherwise.  Could you subscribe so those of us who feel we need to explain ourselves all the time don't gain a nervous twitch? :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 7839 in Ubuntu "Ubuntu bug reporting tools need to point to Ubuntu bug systems" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/7839
<Kinnison> Keybuk: the save-session bug -- yes... I think I've got some stuff to do that somewhere
<Keybuk> uh, not 4505 then :)  bug 4504 :p
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 4504 in dpkg "dpkg: multiple fixes required for Nexenta OS" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4504
<mdz> Keybuk: please work with infinity on that kernel/udev/initramfs mess; that's important for dapper
<Kinnison> infinity: yeah, I was being thorough, though perhaps I should be faster instead :-)
<mdz> Keybuk: I usually only subscribe when I need to see the answer, to avoid getting flooded...if you need for me to be in the loop, feel free to subscribe me
<infinity> mdz: I think we've mostly sorted that through idle chatter in -devel... I'll be hacking today and provide him with a "udev should do this" when I'm done with my half.
<Keybuk> (the idle chatter that made infinity late)
* infinity coughs.
<mdz> Keybuk: documentation looks good, thanks for that
<Keybuk> mdz: I needed the space on my whiteboard
<mdz> Keybuk: appropriate procedure for the milestoned bugs is to find time to talk with me about them
<infinity> Keybuk: I'll try to keep those docs up to date if/when I change any ftpmastery tools.  Looks good and useful, though.
<mdz> Keybuk: 7839 should be targeted for edgy
<mdz> Keybuk: 4505 should be rejected
<mdz> time!
<mdz> Keybuk: thanks
<mdz> Kamion: next
<Kamion> ue-partitioning-tool: Agreed with mdz to defer remaining feature work and concen
<Kamion> trate on stabilisation.
<Kamion> misc: Week spent fixing top Ubiquity crash bugs and a few other issues. Getting
<Kamion> into moderately good shape now, I think; just one last crash to fix before Flight CD 7.
<Kamion> next-week: Obviously more Ubiquity bug-fixing, and mop up other >= major and ubuntu-6.06-targeted bugs elsewhere.
<Kamion> the "one last crash" is 39734
<mdz> ok
<mdz> ubiquity ha been looking very good in my testing
<mdz> Kamion: thanks for the update
<mdz> iwj: next
<iwj> Last ~week: firefox (bugfixes), ghostscript (new gs-esp upstream, bughunting, etc.), fonts (trying to push anymetrics=1 upstream at least to Debian is a bit of a struggle so far but I'm getting there I think).
<iwj> Next week: Non-firefox bugs, including dpkg issues, if I can manage to get round to any.
<iwj> Firefox next week: ff 1.5.0.3 some time near next Tue/Weds.  There's some discssion in ubuntu-art of new theme setup for firefox in Dapper, which I have to get stuck into.
<iwj> It would be nice if Malone bug searches could be made to exclude certain packages.  I can't see the non-ff wood for the ff trees.  (Or perhaps I'm just not finding this feature in the UI.)
<mdz> (I apologize in advance that we're going to run late; have had a lot of bug talk)
* infinity raises brow... 1.5.0.3?
<doko> iwj: thanks for gs-esp
<pitti> infinity: yep, small and fast update
<mvo> iwj: are you in contact with fontocnfig upstream about the change?
<pitti> iwj: I can send you a CVE changelog snippet again
<iwj> mvo: I think so but only via the Debian BTS.
<mdz> iwj: you should be able to get partway there with a sort
<iwj> pitti: Yes, please.
<mdz> (the bug list issue)
<mdz> iwj: and have you tried the package bug report?
<iwj> mdz: That does help but you only get to sort on one thing if I'm not mistaken.
<iwj> The package bug report is the opposite of what I want IYSWIM.
<mdz> iwj: the javascript-based sort by clicking on the columns is multi-key I believe
<mdz> iwj: so what you can do is request a large batch (get all your bugs on one page) and sort with the column heading javascript widget
* iwj tries it.
<mdz> iwj: thanks, and while you do...
<mdz> doko: next?
<mdz> er
<mdz> infinity: sorry
<mdz> infinity: you were next
<infinity> Mine's short anyway.
<infinity> last week: was sick up to and through the weekend, spent the last few days hunting build failures and chroot breakers resulting from the dapper-autotest runs.
<infinity> this week: today is initramfs-tools bugfix day (several in the works), plus need to catch up on PHP security, upstream bugfix version bumps for a mess of stuff, then start chewing through my other assigned bugs as quickly as possible.
<doko> - openoffice.org: amd64 / kde / scim debugging, found reason for slow startup times on amd64, pending upload; proposed amd64 32bit fixes for ia32*, needs confirmation from Riddell; backport of 2.0.2 to breezy available on p.d.o, not yet announced, problematic: -l10n failure on the buildds, which is not reproducible on a fresh chroot.
<doko> - printing related packages: bug triage, no further uploads yet.
<doko> - had the pleasure to join an eclipse working group to address promotion and packaging on linux distros. that group will now become an eclipse sub-project, more news, if the information is somewhere available online.
<doko> - preparing java package updates (status report emailed).
<doko> - other: sprained one toe, fractured another one, running against my last box of breezy CD's. 
<doko> - next week: catch up on more printing bugs, address the six major assigned bug report, investigate the -l10n build failure.
<Keybuk> infinity: when does your "day" begin?
<mdz> infinity: what's on that upstream list apart from mysql?
<infinity> Keybuk: About 3 hours ago.
<doko> subversion 1.3 -> 1.3.1 ?
<infinity> mdz: MySQL, SVN, Apache2, PHP (still need to get an exception for this one), Tbird 1.5.0.2.
<mdz> doko: can you mail me a URL for a log of the -l10n failure?
<mdz> doko: you didn't mention that your injury came from Ubuntu CDs.  in the line of duty!
<Riddell> doko: I'm unsure of the way to test your 32 bit patch
<doko> mdz: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/188774
<mdz> doko: can you mail it please? I'll forget otherwise
<doko> Riddell: I can try that myself on Friday
<doko> mdz: ok
<mdz> doko: thanks
<iwj> mdz: Well, starting at  https://launchpad.net/people/ijackson/+assignedbugs  I can't see a way to get them on one page and the js column heading sort seems not to do what I would want - I click on In and then Importance, or vice versa, and I don't get it sorted by one and then the other.
<mdz> dholbach: next
<dholbach> bugs: need to catch up, hug day yesterday, hug day next week?
<dholbach> icon mission: ubuntu-art people catch up on their bugs, I got a new set of icons from the designer yesterday, will package next - some stuff still missing, will call him
<dholbach> this week (done): hug day, some bug triage, random fixes, motu business
<dholbach> this week (todo): more bug triage, more fixes, prepare LinuxTag talk, do LinuxTag talk
<dholbach> next week: bugs bugs bugs, motu bugs (test rebuilds?)
<mdz> iwj: I believe you need to hand-edit the query string to get larger batches; #launchpad should be able to help
<pitti> oh, that's possible now?
<mdz> iwj: Apr 24 09:28:20 <kiko>  just change the batch URL parameter
<mdz> so presumably &batch=1000 or so
<iwj> doko: Sympathy for your foot !
<pitti> cool; last time I tried, the batch_end was just ignored
<mdz> dholbach: another hug day next week, no?
<mdz> pitti: if it doesn't work, please complain to kiko ;-)
<dholbach> mdz: yeah - i wrote that pre-meeting, i will see with sfllaw to that
<mdz> dholbach: cool, thanks
<pitti> mdz: just checked, it indeed works now. cool!
<Surak> batch is limited tough. I don't remember the quantity, but it's either 100 or 1000.
<mdz> it's definitely more than 100
<iwj> ?batch=1000 seems to work.
<mdz> and if it's currently too low, I should be able to get it increased
<mdz> I think that's all; BenC and fabbione are missing
<mdz> any other business in <60 seconds?
<JaneW> just SoC
<mdz> JaneW: if you have a prepared update, I'd like to hear it
<Kamion> Flight 7 tomorrow we hope, but no new kernel; I guess BenC didn't make it on that today
<Kamion> so we may have to get our skates on tomorrow morning
<JaneW> nothing prepared, just that things are well underway, lots of activity
<JaneW> we could do with a couple more mentors
<mdz> I hope BenC is OK
<JaneW> esp if we get 20 projects this year
<mdz> I sent him an SMS at the start of the meeting and got no answer
<JaneW> and we need specs
<JaneW> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2006
<Keybuk> Kamion: would you like to borrow mine, they may fit? :)
<Keybuk> JaneW: who is supposed to write the specs?  My understanding was the students did for their proposals
<mdz> Kamion: he wanted to get a new kernel in to get it tested, or there were flight-7 blockers needed fixing?
<mdz> Keybuk: I think she means ideas for projects
<infinity> mdz: He wanted it tested, there's no real blocker.
<Kamion> mdz: we're half-way through a kernel ABI change; I'd rather not do a milestone release in that state
<Kamion> but it FTBFS on sparc
<mdz> Kamion: which half?
<Riddell> mdz: mind and promote knetworkmanager and wlassistant :)
<JaneW> Keybuk: we need a good summary, rational and acceptance criteria, they can fill in the blanks
<infinity> The halfway through thing isn't the end of the world (since the seeds haven't been changed), but it also sucks.
<mdz> Riddell: i will do it before I sleep tonight
<Kamion> mdz: new kernel images on !sparc, no l-r-m/linux-meta/d-i
<mdz> Riddell: in the future, you're likely to get faster responses from Kamion or Keybuk since they're on your time zone
<infinity> Kamion: If we don't care about doing Flight-7 on ports, we can just press on with what we have, and let the new kernel come later...
<mdz> ok
<mdz> that was more than 60 seconds of other business
<mdz> anyone not compellled to stay and chat is excused to sleep
<mdz> thanks, all
<iwj> sleeeeeeep
<ogra> yeah
<mdz> compelled, even
* dholbach stays up
<ogra> finally
<iwj> Goodnight everyone.
<Mithrandir> iwj: please see my question in #u-d
* pitti crawls back into bed, cu later
* mvo will just stay up
<nhaines> Good work, everyone.  :)
<infinity> Later, everyone. :)
* infinity goes back to work.
<seb128> dholbach: you crazy freak
<JaneW> night
* dholbach high fives mvo
<doko> good night
<iwj> I'll be a bit late starting tomorrow, FAOD ...
<ogra> the nurse rings in 3h :/
<seb128> 'night
<ogra> night all
<dholbach> night guys
* dholbach hugs seb128
<nhaines> JaneW, are there specific SoC ideas that need specs actually written up, or are there just not enough ideas yet?
* Kamion will be out sporadically tomorrow due to house-buying administration work
<nhaines> Night, dholbach!  :)
<Kinnison> bedness!
<Kinnison> ciau
* seb128 hugs dholbach
<Surak> night all
<Kamion> staying up now to sort out ubiquity upload
<dholbach> night nhaines
<JaneW> nhaines: sanity check on the current ideas, more ideas if possible, and expanding on good ideas.
<nhaines> JaneW: I'm not feeling too confident in myself, but maybe this would be a task I could look at.  I'll browse the SoC wiki page tonight.
<JaneW> nhaines: awesome, thank-you :)
* JaneW better get some sleep, have to be up in 75 mins again :(((
<nhaines> Every little bit helps, I suppose.  :)
<nhaines> Have a nice nap!  :/
<JaneW> nhaines: indeed (sleep and SoC help)
<nhaines> :D
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 10 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 11 May 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<MagicFab> hey
<nhaines> hey  :)
<MagicFab> are there CC meetings summaries somewhere ?
<nhaines> Yes, but not today yet.
<nhaines> Or wait, the CC meetings?
<MagicFab> oh no , just asking about previous ones. I know about the full logs, but am looking for summaries if there's any
<nhaines> Sorry, you'll have to look on the wiki.  I don't know about those ones.
* nhaines blushes.
<MagicFab> tx
<bimberi> MagicFab: have you found them? - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<MagicFab> bimberi: I was hoping for summaries, which I remember back from around oct 2005 ;) 
<MagicFab> going through th elo0gs of CC meetings I've missed
<nhaines> Hi, robitaille :)
<robitaille> Hi nhaines 
<MagicFab> hey robitaille
<robitaille> Salut MagicFab 
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-10
<_sHaDe> Notte a Tutti
<freeflying> @schedule shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 10 May 04:00: Technical Board | 10 May 20:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 21:30: Xubuntu | 11 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 May 20:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<pips1> ajmitch, ping?
<pips1> !seen ajmitch
<ajmitch> yes?
<pips1> hi, is zope-cps 3.4.0-1 going to be packaged for dapper?
<ajmitch> it should be in there now
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/zope-cps/3.4.0-1
<pips1> ajmitch, I'm keen to test it on my current dapper test machine, but I there are many dependencies unsatisfied... do you know what the current work is?
<ajmitch> yes, we're working on it
<pips1> ah, ok, great!
<pips1> zope-cps has lots of dependencies, I don't want to go through compiling it all...
<pips1> thanks for your work!
<pips1> ajmitch, is there a specific date when I should come looking for testing it?
<ajmitch> at the moment, we're waiting for new packages to be checked & processed
<ajmitch> so a few days, I'd assume
<pips1> ok, roughly mid-next week, i check again
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-11
<kbrooks> !schedule EDT
<kbrooks> @schedule EDT
<kbrooks> @schedule EST
<Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 09 May 15:00: Technical Board | 10 May 07:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 08:30: Xubuntu | 11 May 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 May 07:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<kbrooks> Dang it.
<kbrooks> When's the next CC meeting?
<mjg59> Week on Tuesday, I'd guess
<mjg59> Unless it's been postponed for any reason
<kbrooks> week on tuesday?
<kbrooks> may 16 2006
<kbrooks> which is sunday IIRC
<mjg59> Uhm. No.
<mjg59> Not the following Tuesday, but the Tuesday after
<_sHaDe> Notte a Tutti
<ubuntu_lt> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 09 May 23:00: Technical Board | 10 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 16:30: Xubuntu | 11 May 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-12
<_sHaDe> Buona Notte a Tutti
<kbrooks> I'd like to become a Ubuntu member. How do I prepare?
<neuralis> kbrooks: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.url http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/ical
<Seveas> @schedule amsterdam
<Ubugtu> An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
<Seveas> meh
* dsas contacts seveas
<Seveas> @part
<Seveas> dsas, ?
<dsas> just trying to be funny ;)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : test
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : test 2
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : 09 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 10 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 11 May 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<Seveas> great, working again
<dsas> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 09 May 21:00: Technical Board | 10 May 13:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 14:30: Xubuntu | 11 May 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 22:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 13:00: Community Council
<kbrooks> Seveas: 16 may... thx
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.bugtracker.bugsnarfer True
<kbrooks> Seveas: :-)
<kbrooks> Seveas: i want to be a Ubuntu member 
<lucasvo> bug 55678
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-13
<kbrooks> bugs
<kbrooks> bug 1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu Dapper "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<kbrooks> heh
<BlueT_> @schedule taipei
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Taipei: 10 May 04:00: Technical Board | 10 May 20:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 21:30: Xubuntu | 11 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 May 05:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 20:00: Community Council
<zul> @schedule Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 09 May 16:00: Technical Board | 10 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 11 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 17:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 08:00: Community Council
<poningru> @schedule NewYork
<poningru> @schedule New York
<poningru> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 09 May 16:00: Technical Board | 10 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 11 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 17:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 08:00: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-14
<johan_> pcmcia networking need always to reload it doesn't load to himselves
<johan_> working in kubuntu dapper beta 2 release
<simira> sfllaw: get a room
<robitaille> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : 09 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 10 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 10 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 May 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<robitaille> @timezone US/Pacific
<robitaille> @schedule US/Pacific
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Pacific: 09 May 13:00: Technical Board | 10 May 06:30: Xubuntu | 10 May 13:00: Edubuntu | 11 May 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 14:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 05:00: Community Council
<Seveas> ah, now I know what's missing...
<Riddell> a way to stop it setting off my highlights 12 times a day each week there happens to be a kubuntu meeting?
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.topic  Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | %s
<Seveas> Riddell, /ignore 
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 10 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 10 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 May 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<zul> @schedule Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 09 May 16:00: Technical Board | 10 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 10 May 16:00: Edubuntu | 11 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 17:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 08:00: Community Council
<ubuntu_lt> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 09 May 23:00: Technical Board | 10 May 16:30: Xubuntu | 10 May 23:00: Edubuntu | 11 May 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 May 00:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 15:00: Community Council
<neuralis> @schedule new_york
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 09 May 16:00: Technical Board | 10 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 10 May 16:00: Edubuntu | 11 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 17:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 08:00: Community Council
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 09 May 23:00: Technical Board | 10 May 16:30: Xubuntu | 10 May 23:00: Edubuntu | 11 May 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 May 00:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 15:00: Community Council
<highvoltage> @schedule johannesburg
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 09 May 22:00: Technical Board | 10 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 10 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 11 May 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 14:00: Community Council
<highvoltage> isn/win 15
<lucas> @schedule Europe/Paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 09 May 22:00: Technical Board | 10 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 10 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 11 May 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 14:00: Community Council
<zul> @schedule Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 09 May 16:00: Technical Board | 10 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 10 May 16:00: Edubuntu | 11 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 17:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 08:00: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 10 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 May 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Community Council
<mjg59> Evening
<highvoltage> evening mjg59 
* Keybuk workraves
* highvoltage sets alarm clock for 23:00 SAST just in case i fall asleep
<zul> hey
<sivang> evening all
<highvoltage> evenin'
<fabbione> evening
<zakame> hi all
<sfllaw> Afternoon.
<sivang> hey sfllaw , what's up?
<zakame> hi sfllaw 
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> mdz, mjg59: ping
<bddebian> Heya sfllaw
<zakame> sivang
<sivang> hey zakame 
<mdz> good day
<bddebian> zakame
<Keybuk> I assume we won't have the sab as usual
<highvoltage> Keybuk: South African Breweries?
<mdz> highvoltage: they won't be here either
<sfllaw> Alas.
<highvoltage> :)
<cbx33> evenin all
<pitti> hi
<ivoks> hi
<mdz> that's odd; I have evolution set to remind me 1 hour in advance of tech board, but it reminded me 2 hours in advance instead
<mdz> it even said so itself
<sivang> evolution getting life of its own :)
<bddebian> It's evolving? ;-P
<cbx33> that's scary
<Keybuk> evo sucks at time zones
<fabbione> s/at time zones//
<Keybuk> I gave up using it's alarms once I realised it thought DST was something that happened to other people
<ivoks> :)
<Keybuk> and that upstream had ignored that bug for ~ 3 years
<Keybuk> well ... I can see we have a FULL agenda tonight
<pitti> strange, the notifications have always worked fine for me, also with dst
<ogra> for me too
<ivoks> then i consider my self lucky... for not using gnome :)
<sfllaw> twm all the way!
<ogra> ivoks, because it works fine for some ppl ? 
<ivoks> ogra: because it works for someone, but not for all :)
<zakame> strange, notifs never borked on me too...
<LaserJock> sfllaw: you use X? ;-)
<sfllaw> LaserJock: Sometimes.
<zakame> what was giving me an annoyance was xchat-gnome's missing underscores
<seb128> is that fixed now?
<Keybuk> shall we get started, anyway?
<seb128> I think there is a bug open about that :p
<Keybuk> I can see sfllaw and zakame
<Keybuk> do we also have zul ?
<zul> yep
<zakame> hi Keybuk seb128 :D
<Keybuk> ok, shall we start at the top then
<Keybuk> sfllaw: you're proposed for ubuntu-core-dev
<Keybuk> and you're at the top of my list, so you get to go first :)
<sfllaw> Hmm...  I don't know what to say outside of what I said to the Community Council.
<sfllaw> I've been a Debian Developer since April 2003.  I'm upstream maintainer for a few pieces of software and package more that just those.
<sfllaw> I've been doing Ubuntu work for about two weeks now and have been steadily triaging through bug reports.  I expect to do this for as long Canonical pays me and probably after that.
<sfllaw> Ask me questions.
<sfllaw> Please?
<ogra> will you pay us beer in paris ?
<fabbione> sfllaw: do you like beer?
<ogra> *lots* of beer ?
<fabbione> we love it :)
<ogra> :)
<azeem> ogra: there's no good beer in Paris, d'oh
<sfllaw> I do.  I have a fondness for Qubec beers.
<sfllaw> And ones from a small University town in Waterloo.
<fabbione> +1 for sfllaw 
<ogra> azeem, ah, damned, right its the wine country
<Keybuk> sfl: do you support the quebecistani separatist movement?
* sivang prefers wine 
<bddebian> Wow, two weeks of bug triaging?  Can I apply then? :-)
<mjg59> sfllaw: What will you be doing with main?
<sfllaw> Keybuk: I am apolitical.
<ogra> anothe +1 for sfllaw then :)
<jbailey> *lol*
<jbailey> Simon does cook *Very* well.
<jbailey> Even vegan food. =)
<azeem> sfllaw: is it true that you are part of a group which calls itself `THUG'?
<highvoltage> wine is not an emulator?
<cbx33> The Hug User Group ?
<Keybuk> (For those just floating by, sfllaw works for Canonical and is in charge of Ubuntu QA)
<mjg59> Could we have a little less in the way of background noise, please?
<sfllaw> mjg59: I hope to be sponsoring bugfixes into main, that I have vetted.  As well, I hope to package various debugging tools that I will write.  And, of course, to upload my own packages which I will maintain in parallel to my Debian ones.
<mdz> (sorry, was drawn into the kernel discussion in progress)
<sfllaw> azeem: I am no longer.  We're now called CHUG.
<mjg59> sfllaw: Which Debian packages do you maintain which would be appropriate for main? (or are we talking about universe here as well?)
<sfllaw> wvdial and wvstreams are the canonical examples.
<ogra> heya, what about tvtime ?
<sfllaw> Is that in main?
<mdz> no
<sfllaw> Sweet.
<ogra> nah
<mdz> ogra: he was answering mjg59's question
<mjg59> sfllaw: wvdial isn't really (well, at all) integrated into the desktop right now. Do you have any interest in trying to improve the state of dialup?
<sfllaw> I do.
<mjg59> Excellent. How? :)
<sfllaw> This weekend, I found the fix to the bug in WvStreams that hung autodetection.
<Keybuk> I'd be especially grateful of any dial-up integration assistance you could provide
<mdz> indeed, that is an area where we have known deficiencies due to Ubuntu developers having broadband :-P
<sfllaw> So that's a start.
<Keybuk> do you know much about ISDN?
<sfllaw> Sadly nothing about ISDN.
<sfllaw> I understand jbailey does.
<sfllaw> And he lives, like five minutes away.
<mjg59> sfllaw: Other areas of interest include trying to improve winmodem setup and the like
<mjg59> It'd be good to have that working to the legally practical extent
<sfllaw> That would excellent.  I have to caution you that my primary responsibility is still QA.
<mjg59> Obviously
<sfllaw> But I would be happy to work in this direction, as it's something I've wanted to do for WvDial for a while.
<mdz> sfllaw: I'd love to see a launchpad team devoted to dialup support, to which the relevant bugs could be directed
<mdz> I expect that if you sent out a call to the community, folks would join up
<mdz> teams are a good way to create a focal point for that kind of work
<mjg59> sfllaw: On another note, wvdial isn't really the model of a modern UI - exposing things like "stupid mode" to the user is somewhat confusing :)
* zakame would join, as he's on a winmodem
<sfllaw> mjg59: All I have to say in its defence is that it was excellent at the time it was written...
<mdz> (wvdial hasa UI?)
<mjg59> sfllaw: I'm not going to disagree in the slightest
<sfllaw> WvDial has suffered from its age.
<highvoltage> a ui, probably not a gui :)
<ivoks> mdz: gnome-ppp
<pitti> does any country apart from Germany actually use it?
<sfllaw> I know people use it with IRDA and Bluetooth cellphones.
<ivoks> pitti: wvdial?
<mdz> pitti: ISDN or wvdial?
<mjg59> Ok, I think I'm done. Anyone else?
<sfllaw> And that's in North America.
<ogra> ISDN
<ivoks> ISDN is popular in Croatia too
<Mithrandir> not that uncommon in .no either.
<zakame> ivoks: which fortunately I'm now ITA'ing in Debian atm
<fabbione> and in some parts of italy too
<highvoltage> and in south africa
<Mithrandir> (but I tend to solve the problem by throwing an ISDN router in between. :-)
<highvoltage> i'm connected with wvdial right now
<mjg59> No, really, can we please focus on the agenda rather than veering off into unrelated tangents?
<ivoks> zakame: :)
<sfllaw> Any other questions?
<mdz> highvoltage: hmm, another dialup team member raises his hand ;-)
<mjg59> mdz: Keybuk: Anything else?
<crimsun> sfllaw: this may not lie in the scope of bug hunting, but do you envision automating strace, backtraces, and the like?
<mdz> not from me
<Keybuk> nothing fro me
<mdz> votes?
<Keybuk> +1
<mjg59> +1 
<sfllaw> crimsun: I do.
<fabbione> +1
<sfllaw> I haven't yet written specs for these tools yet.
<mdz> +1 here based on Debian and Ubuntu involvement and high expectations ;-)
<sfllaw> But I've done similar things on a smaller scale.
* dholbach congratulates sfllaw!
* dholbach hugs sfllaw!
<sfllaw> mdz: Aww.  That's so sweet of you.
* sfllaw hugs dholbach 
<ogra> yay sfllaw !!
<dholbach> yoooohoooooo!
<zakame> rock on sfllaw ! :D
<sfllaw> Thanks.
<pitti> mdz: ISDN
<bddebian> w00t sfllaw, the Official Task Master
<ivoks> i see you allready huged before :)
<mjg59> fabbione: Dude, you don't seem to be on the tech board? :)
<cbx33> congrats sfllaw 
<pitti> welcome sfllaw 
* jbailey ^5's Simon
* dholbach points to the stand of sfllaw merchandise in the back.
<sfllaw> mjg59: When are those appointments coming up?  Next week?
<fabbione> mjg59: so? i like sfllaw , is that a problem`??? :)
<mjg59> sfllaw: Appointments?
* sivang recommends not messing with fabbione 
<mdz> fabbione: not a problem in itself, but it's confusing during the meeting :-)
<mjg59> Ok. Who's up next?
<Keybuk> zul is next
<Keybuk> (for main)
<zul> ok..
<mjg59> zul: Cool. Can you introduce yourself?
<bddebian> What the?..
<zul> my name is ChuckShort and I have been using linux in one form or another for the past 10 years
<zul> i been using ubuntu since hoary and i have been contributing since then as well.
<zul> i am a member of the kernel team where i been helping out with patches, external drivers, bug triaging and some support
<zul> i also helped out with the bug squad doing uploads to universe with various fixes, i also been trying to help out with grub as well
<fabbione> i can speak up as witness for zul work
<highvoltage> cool. chuck uses linux!
<zul> im also a member of the laptop team
<fabbione> at least for the kernel part
<mdz> zul has been a member of MOTU since September
<bddebian> highvoltage: :-)
<fabbione> he did quite a job...
<mdz> unless that's when we migrated into launchpad, in which case it's been longer ;-)
<ogra> and did a huge amount of fixes already
<Keybuk> you've certainly touched a fair number of packages
<zul> i also obeen bugging people about ubuntuce or embedded ubuntu
<fabbione> and Dear TC please approve zul so he can stop nagging me to be to a TC meeting :P
<zul> and i was at ubz as well
<zul> hehe
<mjg59> zul: So, what would you be doing in main?
<Keybuk> zul: and what would you like to do in main?
<Keybuk> heh, snap
<zul> mdz: i done more work with bugzilla :)
<fabbione> anyway.. joking aside.. i think he can manage quality wise to keep up with our standards
<zul> i would like to continue with the kernel team, i want to help out maintain the dapper kernel once dapper has been released
<fabbione> and he has always been there
<zul> as well as varous bugfixing and vetting bug fixes into main
<zul> oh yeah i was also a gentoo developer where I maintained apache for gentoo before i got burned out
<mdz> zul: what do you think we can do to help effectively triage kernel bugs?  it is one of the highest volumes of new bugs we have
<zul> mdz: basically keep doing what i have been doing asking questions and providing test modules for users to try
<sfllaw> zul: Hmm.  Could we go beyond that?  Looking at our bug triage rates, we're slipping behind the rate of bug filing.
<zul> for example if user has a problem with the sky2 module i would try to find a patch or create a patch and put it somewhere where users can try it out
<zul> sfllaw: true
<mdz> zul: it seems that at present, there are many bugs which do not even see a response (e.g., reports which need to be asked for more info), I'm referring to that problem more so than getting the bugs fixed
<zul> sfllaw: i havent had a chance to look a lot of kernel bugs because of real life commitments recently
<zul> but in the past i try to be as prompt as possible
<mdz> BenC: we're discussing zul's application, and in the process, the question of how to address the problem of kernel bug triage
<BenC> should I address zul or kernel bugs first?
<BenC> my comments on kernel bugs will probably me much more lengthy :)
<zul> mdz: i think the amount of volume of kernel bugs that we have now are old stale bug reports that users never get back to us
<mdz> BenC: zul; in fact we should probably defer the other conversation until later in the meeting after applications are processed
<zul> ok not a problem
<BenC> ok, in regards to zul, he's worked quite a bit with the kernel team
<BenC> for the most part, he is very capable of handling the technical, and social aspects of working with the team. Always asks questions when he needs to and is receptive to comments and criticism
<bddebian> zul has been helping quite a bit with Universe bugs too
<ogra> and with grub iirc
<BenC> I've only had a few occasions to comment on his work, but after talking with him about the issues, he's produced better work, so his willingness to learn is definitely there
<BenC> zul: are you paying me by the word, or just for the end result? :)
<fabbione> BenC: LOL
<zul> lol
<zul> end result..*ssh* :)
<mdz> mjg59,Keybuk: any further questions?
<mdz> I would like to talk about kernel bugs, but later
<zul> as BenC said i am very willing to learn and i think i have come a long way from where I started
<Keybuk> none for me
<mjg59> No, I'm good
<mdz> ok, votes
<mjg59> +1 from me
<mdz> +1, strong recommendations all around and substantial body of good quality contributions
<Keybuk> +1
<mdz> zul: congratulations and welcome
<dholbach> congratulations zul!
* pitti hugs zul 
<fabbione> zul: welcome to hell!
<zul> wohoo...thanks..
* fabbione grins
* sfllaw hugs zul.
<sfllaw> Welcome to the club!
<zul> fabbione: been there done that
* highvoltage shakes zul's hand
* zul does a jig
<mdz> there was one more applicant, yes?
<Keybuk> and last up (for main) we have zakame 
<BenC> zul: cash, no checks
<Keybuk> thanks for being patient :)
<zul> BenC: beer good?
<Keybuk> mdz: gah, stop clicking before me <g>
<BenC> beer and marlboros :)
<zul> hehe
<ogra> yay zul :)
<mdz> Keybuk: you approved sfllaw for the wrong team :-P
<zakame> way to go zul! :D
<mdz> zakame: you're up next
<sfllaw> mdz: I don't mind.  Add me to more.
<zakame> ok
<Seveas> sfllaw: collecting emblems? 
<Keybuk> mdz: I did?  I approved him for both
<mdz> Keybuk: I did -core-dev, and then you did -dev
<Keybuk> well, I approved him for -dev on the basis you did -core-dev
<Keybuk> right
<bddebian> w00t zul
<Keybuk> zakame: would you like to introduce yourself?
<mdz> -core-dev implies membership in -dev
<mdz> anyway, right
<Keybuk> mdz: it does, but then I always figure that -core-dev may be lost without losing -dev ... so people should be in both, in case they resign from main but stay on in universe *shrug*
<ogra> why wasnt he in -dev ?
<zakame> Yes, I'm ZakElep, currently fixing bug 6548 as I write this :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6548 in gxmms "Panel Icon is Missing [gxmms-bmp]  (Dapper)" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6548
<ogra> as an all time uploader 
<mdz> ogra: sfllaw
<ogra> oh
<ogra> k
* ogra should stop fiddling with liveCDs during meetings
<sfllaw> ogra: You're working too hard.  :)
<ogra> :P
<BenC> FYI, I am typing up some notes on kernel bugs, so when we are ready to discuss, someone just ping me so I can lay it out
<sfllaw> zakame: You should probably tell us more about your application.
<mdz> BenC: ok
<mdz> zakame: tell us about what you have been working on so far, and what you would hope to do as a core developer
<zakame> I have been on the Ubuntu team since October 2005, and since then I have been working on various things for the distro, including translations, bug fixing and triage, and now I feel that its time for me to up the ante by working on doing and coding feature specs for ubuntu :)
<zakame> sfllaw, mdz: sorry, my dialup's laggy :/
<Keybuk> and what in main particularly irks or interests you, that you would like to work on?
<Keybuk> . o O { dial-up support? :p }
<bddebian> heh
<zakame> I have been noticing the comments on bugs lately in the devel list, and as a result I have been reasearching for putting together a 'smart' bug reporting tool 
* mdz murmurs something about dh_iconcache...
<ogra> the famous dholbach_iconcache :)
<sivang> hehe
<zakame> yes, I am also doing work for DhIconCacheChanges, currently in Universe, but I would like to help on main too :D
* bddebian too
<zakame> and yes, DialUpSupport too, as I have said earlier... I'm on a linuxant right now using the free liceense, and yes, 'tis a bit crappy doing work under a 14.4, but still it works
<mdz> zakame: what sort of features do you have in mind for main?
<sabdfl> erk
<sabdfl> sorry, i thought we were on at 23h00 UTC
<zakame> mdz: lots; for some, I would like it to have better support for non-broadband users like me,
<zakame> hi sabd	
<mdz> sabdfl: zakame was just telling us how he would like to spec out how to improve out-of-the-box dialup support in Ubuntu
<sabdfl> sounds good!
<mdz> zakame: have you made any sponsored uploads to main?
<zakame> mdz: I also want it to have better printing preferences imrpovements; there has been some cases other users have pointed me on, since I'm the debian packager for gtklp
<sabdfl> i realised the meeting was underway when I got to the LP mails telling me sfllaw was a new dev - welcome aboard :-)
<sivang> LOL
<sabdfl> zakame: are you tracking upstream's plans for gtk printing prefs?
<zakame> mdz: none at the moment, but I have pending debdiffs to upload for dh_iconcache
<Keybuk> sabdfl: tsk, ignoring your IRC pings, eh? :)
<sfllaw> sabdfl: Thanks!
<ogra> LP needs a ping interface :)
<mdz> zakame: are you a Debian developer?
<zakame> sabdfl: not yet, sorry, as in between doing ubuntu work I am also doing some real life stuff teaching for our summer camp :)
<sivang> ogra: an SMS interface :)
<highvoltage> hmmm.. a meeting reminder thingy would be nice... perhaps a fridge function instead?
<zakame> mdz: I am currently on the NM queue waiting foran NM
<zakame> err AM
<pitti> highvoltage: it's already there, subscribe to the fridge calendar
<BenC> zakame: Good luck with that :)
<mdz> sabdfl: I've mailed you a copy of the log for zakame prior to your arrival
<zakame> sabdfl: I have been looking on the printing specs on LP though, but I haven't considered them fully
<zakame> BenC: thanks
<mdz> zakame: most of the work that I've seen of yours has been high-volume but trivial changes, like dh_iconcache and syncs from Debian.  The former is mostly a large one-time transition, and the latter doesn't require any upload privileges.  Can you tell us what motivated you to apply for upload privileges to main?  what do you plan to upload?
<sabdfl> hey raphink, great work with KDE at LinuxTag
<raphink> thanks sabdfl :)
<sabdfl> zakame: would you be willing to avoid a core set of packages initially (stuff that might directly affect install or boot?)
<zakame> sabdfl: if it is too intrusive, yes
<sabdfl> zakame: can you give me an example of "too intrusive"?
<sabdfl> and how would you get a non-intrusive change reviewed?
<Keybuk> I'm not sure I'm happy with that idea ... if someone isn't ready to touch anything in main, they should stay in universe
<Keybuk> being able to upload to main is because you can be trusted to work on packages that directly affect install and boot
<sivang> Keybuk: one specific package comes into my mind ;-)
<mdz> Keybuk: I agree; it's as much work to make that decision on a per-package bases as to review and sponsor the uploads
<sabdfl> Keybuk: i don't know i think it's worth having guys who are confident to work quickly on light-touch issues
<zakame> I see... ok, I suppose I will hold on thatfor now :)
<sabdfl> i think its possible to exercise good judgement on that front
<sabdfl> not commenting on zakame per se but i think if someone has energy, good judgement, and a good track record in MOTU then it's worth giving them the opportunity
<Keybuk> if someone has a good track record in MOTU, then I generally don't see any obstacle for main upload
<Keybuk> we're sliding away from the point here, however
<Keybuk> anyone got any further questions for zakame?
<mjg59> zakame: Do you feel not having main upload privileges is currently preventing you from doing things you want to do?
<sabdfl> zakame: can you list any bugs you would be confident to fix and upload to main?
<sabdfl> ok, zakame, i think you need to come back in early edgy
<sabdfl> zakame: also, try picking out some fixes to main issues and running those past sfllaw
<Keybuk> sabdfl: a -1 from you then?
<sabdfl> as debdiffs
<sabdfl> Keybuk: yes, for now
<Keybuk> other votes?  mdz? mjg59?
<mjg59> I'd agree with Mark for the moment
<sabdfl> i like zakame's style but think i'd like to see examples of main patches beforehand
<zakame> zakame: thanks :D
<mdz> I would prefer to see zakame working with a core dev to sponsor uploads, to get some substantial experience and review there
<sabdfl> zakame: keep track of all the work you do in universe too, so you can point us at a neat list
<Keybuk> I agree also; I'm happy with zakame's work so far, but would like to see more "non-trivial" uploads to his name before approving him for main
<Keybuk> sabdfl: LP does that for us :)  https://launchpad.net/people/zakame/+packages  this LP thing is great, you should try it out! :D
<zakame> sabdfl: of course, I shall do so in my wikipage :)
<mdz> zakame: would you be willing to start on your proposed work in main through a sponsor, and reapply at a later date?
<fabbione> zakame: show this guys some balls and help me with X
<fabbione> ;)
<zakame> mdz: yes, I'd be happy to :D
<sabdfl> Keybuk: pity about the UI, the guy who did that must suck ;-p
<zakame> fabbione: I take it you will be my sponsor :D
<sabdfl> looks perfect!
<sabdfl> who's up next?
<Keybuk> sabdfl: it's improving all the time, imo
<fabbione> zakame: if you are ready tio sweat yes
<zul> sabdfl: i think thats it
<zakame> fabbione: I'm on it then :D
<mdz> zakame: glad to hear it, thanks
<sabdfl> hey zul - benc has been telling me about your great work on the kernel
<mdz> that's it for core
<mdz> are there MOTU applicants pending?
<zul> sabdfl: thanks its nice to hear
<fabbione> zakame: cool
<zakame> mdz: it's no problem for me:) I take it as a good lesson to look back to :)
<mdz> sabdfl: funny you should mention it...
<mdz> ah, you got the mail already of course
<Keybuk> mdz: none that I can see
<mdz> there are 15 pending applications for ubuntu-dev
<mdz> but most of them are old
<mdz> if anyone is here to apply, please speak up
<sivang> I am
<sivang> sorry, been away form the machine
<Keybuk> I could swear I got an e-mail about sivang today
<Keybuk> yet LP shows he applied 2005-10-04
<sivang> I reapplied today
<sivang> so this makes sense
<sivang> can I go on?
<mdz> LP bug?
<mdz> sivang: yes, go ahead
<sivang> mdz: don't think so :)
<sivang> anyways,
<sivang> I am Sivan Greenberg,
<sivang> been with Ubuntu since roughly october 2004 (before warty)
<Keybuk> dholbach: can you mail Peter Norman Greenfield and do your reminding them that they need to show up at TB meetings thing?  And probably that he needs to work with the MOTU before applying
<sivang> since done I have done a long way in my view, 
<sivang> I have started with documentation , slowly but surely learning the development ways in ubuntu. Although my universe record is not that big, I have done some non trivial patches and mofications for packages in main
<Keybuk> sivang: you're certainly a face we're used to seeing on the channels
<sivang> like:
<sivang> gnome-cups-manager
<sivang> gnome-system-tools
<sivang> system-tools-backends
<dholbach> Keybuk: I mailed all of the guys.
<sivang> irssi
<highvoltage> oooh, irssi
<dholbach> Keybuk: I'll try to make sure to give all of them a month to answer and if they don't we can drop them from the list.
<sivang> liblpint-bonobo - the launch[pad integration library for bonobo 
<sivang> (for this I created the lib itself, packaging was done by someone else)
<sivang> and recently created the package for my python application,
<sivang> based on the specifciation from UBZ HomeUserBackup (hubackup in universe)
<Keybuk> You've even touched sysvinit, iirc?
<sivang> indeed
<sivang> ;-)
<ogra> Keybuk, sivang was lacking packaging knowledge for quite some time but did awesome work on patches, recently he jumped on MOTU and also does packages now 
<Keybuk> who sponsored that one for you, ooi?
<sivang> and I will never forget what you said wrt to my patch there :)
<Keybuk> what did I say?
* ogra cheers for sivang ...
* sivang tries to recall the exact phrase
<sabdfl> sivang: have you worked closely with any MOTU developers or core devs in particular?
<Keybuk> (I'm entirely aware it may be me who sponsored it ... my memory is not what it was)
<sivang> sabdfl: yes, pitti, seb128, mvo, and recently slomo who helped me get my pakcage in universe
* ogra remembers sivang working with pitti, dholbach, mvop 
<sivang> bddebian also helepd with reviews
<pitti> yep, I uploaded several fixes from Sivan
<sivang> I also worked with pitti on the DB2 packaging, even sent a couple of patches
<dholbach> I had a look at hupbackup, but somebody else took it to improve and upload after me.
<sivang> Keybuk: never patch debian/. using the patch system, (or from within debian.) IIRC  ? is that so? :)
<Keybuk> ahh
<Keybuk> I get quite passionate about that :)
<sabdfl> i'm certainly convinced of sivang's commitment, but can't comment on packaging skills. pitti, mvo, seb128?
<sivang> Keybuk: indeed :)
<sivang> oh, and just today I Helped slomo with tray icons transpernacy patches,
<sivang> which are still pending review at http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/tray_icon/
<pitti> from my experience, Sivan learns slowly, but steadily; he is cautious and I trust him to not do stuff he's unsure about without asking
<seb128> I think that sivang has some good willing but still lot to learn too ...
<pitti> and his enthusiasm is remarkable
<Keybuk> any further questions for sivang?
<Keybuk> mdz, mjg59 ?
<mdz> yes
<sivang> ALl I can say my performance in studying will be much improved from now on, I feel I am really managing to tackle things more neatly and quickly then before. I guess that comes over time of experience on the project.
<sabdfl> +1 from me for sivang then
<mdz> sivang: while developing your backup application, you waited a long time before uploading your packages, rather than developing them incrementally within Ubuntu.  why did you choose this approach?
<mdz> in a collaborative project, it is important to work transparently, by making your work visible throughout the development process
<sivang> mdz: looking back, I feel I had been a bit harsh on myself. I felt it was not appropriate to release the project to the wild in the condition it was then. regardless of that, I registered the branch in LP and tried to interest other memebers of the team (community wise) in the project, but did not get too much resonse.
<sivang> mdz: again, the branch was available and viewable, even through LP's revision control
<sivang> https://launchpad.net/people/sivan/+branch/hubackup/devel-main
<mdz> very few people will go to your LP page and check out a bzr branch, compared to having a package in universe
<mdz> the "release early, release often" mantra is key to what we do
<sivang> I agree, this is correct. Feeling it was not appropriate at that time to put in as a package in universe, I approached people or respoded to peopel who showed interest in the specificaiton. This might have been a mistake.
<highvoltage> mdz: sorry for asking a possibly off-topic and ignorant question, but shouldn't a package be of a certain quality first before it goes into universe?
* Keybuk hides ... I can't really comment here ... I never upload anything I work on until I'm happy with it <g>
<raphink> highvoltage: this is why REVU exists
<sabdfl> highvoltage: that's why we need.... Personal Package Archives! Coming SOON to a Launchpad near YOU
<highvoltage> yay!
<Keybuk> sabdfl: are they?  \o/
<sivang> mdz: I was not happy with the application until it fulfilled it's main functionaly. when it did so, I released the package to universe.
<sabdfl> Keybuk: sure, ask Kinnison
<mdz> highvoltage: it should have a basic level of functionality; it does not need to be feature complete or bug-free
<sivang> (including the important bits)
<Keybuk> exxxxcellent, one of the remaining blockers for HCT that
* Keybuk shall send a sarcastic mail to mbp for not keeping him updated <g>
<zakame> sabdfl: coolness!
<mdz> sivang: you asked for your package to be included in the release, even though it had not been uploaded yet (meaning you did not feel it was ready for people to even test yet)
<sivang> mdz: dealing with application that can screw one's home folder and CDs I felt proper testing should be done prior and after completing the main functionality.
<sabdfl> can we come to a decision on sivang?
<sabdfl> sivang: reasonable - did you publish it outside the archive?
<sivang> sabdfl: outside the bzr branch you mean?
<sabdfl> yes, as debs people could test
<sivang> mdz: I believed I could make it for this release, I admit I had wrong esitmated the time to reach the the point where it could be presented to people. assuming so without publishing debs for testing was wrong, that's true.
<sivang> sabdfl: no :-/
<sivang> sabdfl: for intersted people, I instructed to bzr branch it, and then test it.
<mdz> sivang: thanks for the explanation; I wanted to understand your thinking because you seemed confused about why it couldn't be included
<mdz> sivang: I've seen now that it's in universe, you're already getting good feedback
<sivang> mdz: I believe I was, I was too optimistic about how much time would need to get from one milestone to the other, which flawed my judgment.
<sivang> mdz: I know more then know how every small detail in a spec, can result in days of implementation. this fact should be of warning for us.
<mdz> I'm finished with my questions
<sivang> (now)
<sivang> mdz: yes, I did got some nic feedback and interest
<mdz> votes regarding sivang for ubuntu-dev?
<sabdfl> +1
<mdz> +1
<Keybuk> +1 from me
<sivang> mdz: (the gui needs more work, though :p)
<mjg59> +1, yes
<ogra> yay, welcome sivang 
<pitti> sivang: congratulations! you have waited so long :)
<mdz> sivang: welcome to the team
* sivang faints
<zakame> congrats sivang!
* mvo congrats sivang
<ogra> yeah, well deserved after all this time 
<lifeless> congrats sivang
<sabdfl> well done sivang
* ogra remembers talking to sivang about maintainership in mataro :)
* sivang takes some time to relax the excitment and comes back to hug everyone
<sabdfl> i remember your excitement in mataro!
* sivang hugs all
<sabdfl> it's been a great road so far
* sivang thanks all
<highvoltage> congrats sivang 
<Keybuk> I think that's everybody now?
<sabdfl> very well done
<sivang> sabdfl: been amazing road!
<ogra> yeah, well done
<mdz> Keybuk: yes, and we've run long already
<sivang> thanks all fo the cherring, and thanks mdz for the more then in place questions
<mdz> any last-minute business to discuss?
<sivang> pitti: thank you!
<sabdfl> is ubuntu-dev a member of ubuntumembers yet?
<ogra> didnt BenC want to discuss kernel bug handling ? 
<mdz> after the TB meeting is adjourned, we're going to have a discussion about kernel QA on #ubuntu-kernel with BenC & co.
<sabdfl> looks like it isn't
<ogra> ah
<ogra> :)
<BenC> ok
<mdz> sabdfl: is that what the CC resolved?
<sivang> ogra: we also talked about that you need to understand the make file language hand by hand :)
<sabdfl> i believe so, yes
<ogra> sivang, hehe, yes
<sabdfl> in other words, this group should also be considering substantial-and-sustained contribution
<sabdfl> but i think that's implicit, even for ubuntu-dev
<sabdfl> as sivang just found out :-)
<dholbach> good night
<ogra> night dholbach 
<sivang> sabdfl: :-)
<mvo> night dholbach
<zakame> gn8 dholbach 
<sabdfl> night all
<pitti> bye folks
<highvoltage> good night!
<seb128> 'night dholbach
<zakame> bye all
<mdz> sabdfl: I wasn't present and haven't read the log yet, but if that was their decision, I'm happy for ubuntu-dev to be added to ubuntu-members
<sabdfl> done
<sabdfl> i'd like to do this for any team which has a robust structure and leadership
<sabdfl> and in the case of large groups, like the forums, governance
<mdz> ok
<mdz> we've been here long enough :-)
<mdz> adjourned, thanks everyone
<zul> damn missed the rest of the meeting
<zakame> thanks mzdz
<ogra> thanks 
<zul> thanks mdz
<sivang> thanks everybody , been a great meeting :)
<mdz> zul: <mdz> after the TB meeting is adjourned, we're going to have a discussion about kernel QA on #ubuntu-kernel with BenC & co.
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-07
<nifan> b'dia
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 08 May 22:00: Technical Board | 09 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 16 May 15:00: Community Council
* highvoltage raises hand
<jsgotangco> hey highvoltage
<jsgotangco> raise hand for what?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: I did it in the wrong channel :) meant for edubuntu
<afflux> @shedule berlin
<afflux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 08 May 22:00: Technical Board | 09 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 16 May 15:00: Community Council
<avoine> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 08 May 16:00: Technical Board | 09 May 16:00: Edubuntu | 10 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 May 11:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 16 May 09:00: Community Council
<nifan> b'tarde
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-08
<nifan> b'tarde
<ds500ss> H!I
<ds500ss> /reg
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 May 13:00 UTC: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-10
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 May 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 20:00 UTC: Forum Council
<nifan> b'dia
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 17 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 20:00 UTC: Forum Council
<nifan> b'tarde
<pochu> beuno: around?
<beuno> pochu: yeap
<pochu> hey, somebody has mailed me about if I know any developer in Argentina, do you mind if I ask him to mail you?
<pochu> I don't know of anybody ;)
<beuno> pochu: sure, go ahead, do you know what for?
<pochu> specifically in Buenos Aires
<pochu> beuno: he doesn't speak spanish. he's traveling to argentina, and would like to meet any developer
<beuno> pochu: sure, I'm in  Buenos Aires, although I'm going to debconf in june
<pochu> beuno: It's for now :)
<pochu> beuno: mail sent, thanks!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 17 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 20:00 UTC: Forum Council
<beuno> pochu: sorry, went to a meeting, np!
<pochu> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-11
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 15 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 17 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 20 May 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<aman> plz help
<popey> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 15 May 13:00: Community Council | 15 May 15:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 12:00: Edubuntu | 17 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 20:00: Forum Council | 20 May 17:00: Xubuntu Developers
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-12
<mc44> je
<arualavi> @schedule Andorra
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Andorra: 15 May 15:00: Community Council | 15 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 17 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 22:00: Forum Council | 20 May 19:00: Xubuntu Developers
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-13
<Uzuul> hello
<nifan> b'noite
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-05
<arunkr> "Error in service module" message And I cann't login in Ubuntu 7.10 any way (GDM and console). any solution
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-06
<Hobbsee> oh, ubotu hasn't been updating the meetings, i'll bet.
<Hobbsee> the 30/4 one has passed.
<BunnyRevolution> i understand there is a meeting tomorrow.  what is the general order of business, and how does one get a chance to speak?
<boredandblogging> BunnyRevolution: what meeting are you talking about specifically?
<boredandblogging> community council?
<BunnyRevolution> correct
<boredandblogging> BunnyRevolution: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<BunnyRevolution> i've reviewed the link, and it appears it is a open meeting with pre-selected participants, or i'm unable to find instructions for participation.  i've not attended an ubuntu meeting before.  is there another link i should be looking at for guidance?
<boredandblogging> what is that you want to discuss?
<Hobbsee> BunnyRevolution: it's in this channel, and anyone can talk, as long as they keep to the topic, and provide useful information.
<BunnyRevolution> thank you for that information.  i'll be attending.
<boredandblogging> BunnyRevolution: if you have something specific you want to discuss, add it under general agenda items
 * RoAkSoAx by all
<popey> @schedule
<popey> doh, /me reads /topic
<Daviey> @schedule london
<Daviey>  < popey> doh, /me reads /topic
<soren> :)
<popey> Hah!
<popey> Yo soren, you going to UDS? (have I asked you that already?)
<soren> I am, and you have not.
<soren> Not that I remember anyway.
<soren> popey: I assume you are too?
<popey> yes
<soren> Cool
 * soren makes a note to make sure not to get the hotel room under popey
<popey> heheh
<popey> it's Sladen you need to avoid ;)
<soren> Uhuh..
<soren> :)
<dholbach> hi popey
<popey> moo
<ogra> popey, hey, did you notice the fresh classmate images on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/classmate/images/8.04/ ?
<stgraber> soren: you don't want to be flooded this time ? :)
<soren> stgraber: I'd rather not, no :)
<soren> stgraber: It wasn't me the last time, though. I just remember the stories :)
<popey> ooo no ogra
<popey> was playing with the classmate just last night
 * popey wgets
<Andre_Gondim> !time
<ikonia> t/opic
<ikonia> oops
<jdavies> @schedule
<jdavies> @schedule
<ubottu> jdavies: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
<jdavies> and again..
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: 06 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 07 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 08 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<jdavies> @schedule
<stdin> @schedule
<ubottu> stdin: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 06 May 21:00: Community Council | 07 May 21:00: Server Team | 08 May 13:00: Desktop Team | 09 May 04:00: MOTU | 14 May 21:00: Server Team | 15 May 13:00: Desktop Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 07 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 08 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<emgent> @schedule it
<ubottu> emgent: Error: Unknown timezone: it - Full list: http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/timezones.html
<emgent> @schedulerome
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubottu> emgent: Schedule for Europe/Rome: 06 May 23:00: Community Council | 07 May 23:00: Server Team | 08 May 15:00: Desktop Team | 09 May 06:00: MOTU | 14 May 23:00: Server Team | 15 May 15:00: Desktop Team
<emgent> argh.
<jussi01> @noe rome
<jussi01> @now rome
<ubottu> jussi01: Current time in Europe/Rome: May 06 2008, 17:48:55 - Next meeting: Community Council in 5 hours 11 minutes
<Andre_Gondim> @now brazil
<ubottu> Andre_Gondim: Error: Unknown timezone: brazil - Full list: http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/timezones.html
<Andre_Gondim> @now sÃ£o paulo
<ubottu> Andre_Gondim: Error: Unknown timezone: sÃ£o paulo - Full list: http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/timezones.html
<stdin> jussi01: link fixed to
<Andre_Gondim> @now recife
<ubottu> Andre_Gondim: Current time in America/Recife: May 06 2008, 12:49:43 - Next meeting: Community Council in 5 hours 10 minutes
<jussi01> ok, dont abuse it
<persia> @now error
<ubottu> persia: Error: Unknown timezone: error - Full list: http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/timezones.html
<persia> jussi01: Does that want to point somewhere else?
<emgent> persia: lol
<jussi01> persia: we are working on it currently;)
<persia> Excellent :)
<stdin> @now FakeTZ
<ubottu> stdin: Error: Unknown timezone: FakeTZ - Full list: http://jussi01.com/web/timezones.html
<persia> .msg ubottu helo
<stdin> !hi | persia
<ubottu> persia: Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu-meeting!
<persia> stdin: Almost, but not quite what I wanted :)
<stdin> !-hello
<ubottu> hello is <alias> hi - added by Pici on 2007-10-10 20:34:45
<stdin> same thing ;)
<Andre_Gondim> !now recife
<ubottu> Factoid now recife not found
<Andre_Gondim> @now recife
<ubottu> Andre_Gondim: Current time in America/Recife: May 06 2008, 15:24:08 - Next meeting: Community Council in 2 hours 35 minutes
<mantiena> hello all
<sirex`> Hello mantiena :)
<gnomefreak> @now
<ubottu> gnomefreak: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 06 2008, 19:06:23 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 53 minutes
<emgent> @now rome
<ubottu> emgent: Current time in Europe/Rome: May 06 2008, 21:06:39 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 53 minutes
<sirex`> @now Vilnius
<ubottu> sirex`: Current time in Europe/Vilnius: May 06 2008, 22:06:58 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 53 minutes
<fdd> hello.
<sabdfl> evening / afternoon / morning all
<atoponce> afternoon
<sabdfl> did i miss the TB at 19h00 UTC?
<atoponce> haven't seen anything here..
<mantiena> ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿ï»¿hi sabdfl
<emgent> uhm
<emgent> mantiena: little backspace?
<emgent> hi sabdfl
<RoAkSoAx> @now lima
<ubottu> RoAkSoAx: Current time in America/Lima: May 06 2008, 14:10:54 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 49 minutes
<mantiena> emgent: you see strange characters in my posts ?
<RoAkSoAx> ubottu, not giving the exact hour!
<atoponce> mantiena: tons of space before "hi sabdfl"
<emgent> mantiena: not strange characters, only more backspace.
<sirex`> mantiena: I see it too.
<sabdfl> hi emgent, mantiena, atoponce
<mantiena> this is pidgin from Ubuntu hardy bug
<fdd> @now Bucharest
<ubottu> fdd: Current time in Europe/Bucharest: May 06 2008, 22:12:08 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 47 minutes
 * mantiena will try to use Empathy
<sirex`> Maybe some one knows, how can I connect all events from fridge.ubuntu.com/event to my Google Calendars? I tried to add iCal, but it fail.. :/
<juliux> sabdfl, it is all ready possible to submit dates to your calender for october?
<juliux> ;)
<gnomefreak> juliux: you mean sirex` ?
<mantiena> emgent, sirex`: do my posts look better now ?
<beuno> sirex`, it's a known bug. We are trying to fix it though
<atoponce> mantiena: your posts were fine, it was just the one
<juliux> gnomefreak, i mean sabdfl;) we will have the second ubucon in october in germany;)
<sirex`> mantiena: now they looks normaly :)
<sabdfl> juliux: sure, not sure i will be able to make it, but it's always good to know what's on just in case
<gnomefreak> juliux: ah
<juliux> gnomefreak, from last year i know that it can't be to early;)
<ogra> juliux, hannover this time ?
<juliux> ogra, 80% gÃ¶ttingen;)
<ogra> oooooh !!!!
<juliux> ogra, so close enough for you;9
<no0tic> @now
<ubottu> no0tic: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 06 2008, 19:17:52 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 42 minutes
<ogra> yeah, i could nearly walk
<sirex`> sabdfl: there are plans for another ubucon in Vilnius in few weeks.. :)
<juliux> ogra, but there is a bad news, it is two weeks bevor the 8.10 release :(
<juliux> ogra, 17,18,19 october;)
<ogra> juliux, my GF is freaking out in happiness that she finally has an opportunity to see all the phreax
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 07 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 07 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 08 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team
<ogra> juliux, noted
<juliux> ogra, cool
<ogra> if its that cloes to release i'll probably only make one day though
<juliux> ogra, girlfriends at ubucon are difficult, since last ubucon my girlfriend want to come with me to all ubuntu/opensource events
<ogra> but in any case better than last time
<ogra> haha
<juliux> ogra, we had to make the date fix bevor the release schedule was publik, and last year this weekend was the weekend after the release
<juliux> if you want you can make a sprint at ubucon;9
<juliux> you get a glass room so everybody can watch you
<ogra> well, goettinen is surely a jewel worth to get some devs to see it
<ogra> *goettingen
<juliux> we will see who is coming;)
<juliux> last year we had only one dev so if we get two this year everything is fine;)
 * ogra wonders if thats the genral ubuntu tenor for this year ... we'll only go to beautiful places ... prague, goettingen ...
<ogra> well, berlin is 3h by train
<ogra> they have no excuse
<juliux> i will drive by train to berlin
<juliux> may is ubuntu travelling month;) 6 days uds, 2days ubuntuusers.de meeting, 6 days linuxtag;9
<juliux> argh by car;)
<ogra> i'll likely only do one or two days of linuxtag like last year
<ogra> i'll run the ubuntu grill this time though ... so its likely towards the end again
<juliux> saturday evening is ubuntu barbecue again
<ogra> yep
<juliux> sponsored by ubuntu deutschland e.v.;)
<juliux> cool
<ogra> oh, not the berlin LoCo ?
<ogra> thats nice
<juliux> they are not a loco;)
<ogra> share the load :)
<juliux> the will organise it but we will pay;9
<ogra> cool
<juliux> ubuntu berlin is a subgroup
<ogra> they are quite loco somethmes though :)
<juliux> pls not more splitting;)
<ogra> especially if beer is involved
<juliux> hehe
<juliux> but we know that you need no beer;)
<ogra> lol
<juliux> Syntux_, do you try today to become an ubuntu member?
<Syntux_> juliux, yes
<juliux> Syntux_, +1
<Syntux> juliux, woohaa!
<juliux> Syntux, i read your posts on loco-contacts
<Syntux> juliux, but why the +1 ? do you know me ?
<Syntux> ah, lovely :-)
<Syntux> btw, how many +1 one would need to get it?
<juliux> Syntux, it is not my decision;) i am not a part of the community council
<Syntux> ah so you can't even vote ?
<juliux> i can only give you a testimonial
<Syntux> juliux, great, I'm offering FREE PIZZA for wikinized testimonials LOL
<Syntux> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Syntux
<juliux> Syntux, sounds good, should i give you my address?
<Syntux> juliux, yes please send it to jad @ my nickname dot net and if you don't live in the states then you have to supply me with any online pizza store in your country
<juliux> Syntux, hehe
<Syntux> heh
<juliux> Syntux, if we meet at an uds you can sponsore me a pizza
<Syntux> sure :D
<Syntux> oh are you from germany ?
<juliux> yeo
<Syntux> man! your language is the hardest thing I ever encountered in my life!
<juliux> hehe
<juliux> i can understand you
<Syntux> I thought Arabic Grammar was hard until I registered for German Course
<boredandblogging> don't think the CC is doing member approvals anymore
<boredandblogging> delegated to the regional membership councils
<juliux> don't asked me about german grammar, i have no idea about it
<Syntux> boredandblogging, always carrying the bad news; THOU SHALL STOP
<Syntux> heh
<stgraber> boredandblogging: indeed, the regional councils have their LP teams since a day or two
<juliux> boredandblogging, are this councils allready founded? i didn't see a offical announcment
<boredandblogging> stgraber: good to hear
<Andre_Gondim> @now recife
<ubottu> Andre_Gondim: Current time in America/Recife: May 06 2008, 16:42:09 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 17 minutes
<boredandblogging> juliux: haven't seen any official word yet
<stgraber> juliux: I have been added to a LP team and now have the right to approve/decline membership, so the teams are in place, the structure (meetings and stuff) aren't
<juliux> stgraber, ok
<stgraber> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-membership-board-emea for the European one
<Syntux> stgraber, then would you recommend heading to bed instead of waiting?
<stgraber> IIRC the Community Council hasn't done membership approval last time because the regional councils were about to be created, so there will probably be no membership stuff today.
<stgraber> that's just my opinion though :)
<Syntux> nice, it was like BTW :-)
<stgraber> "Starting 2008-04-15, membership applications will be handled by regional teams, delegated by the Community Council, as described at StreamlineMembershipApproval."
<stgraber> from the CC wiki page
<RoAkSoAx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards
<fdd> it seems like, that's it...
<Syntux> yeah
<bimberi> @now sydney
<ubottu> bimberi: Current time in Australia/Sydney: May 07 2008, 05:54:08 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 5 minutes
<sabdfl> sirex`: that's very cool! how many folks would you expect?
<fdd> @now Bucharest
<ubottu> fdd: Current time in Europe/Bucharest: May 06 2008, 22:54:23 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 5 minutes
 * elkbuntu flounders around trying to wake up.
<bimberi> hey elkbuntu!
<juliux> morning elkbuntu
 * juliux gives elkbuntu a coffee
<elkbuntu> juliux, it had better be at least double shot
<emgent> sabdfl: some time today for ubuntu members candidature?
<sirex`> sabdfl: it hard to say, becouse we opened registration only for those who planning to install ubuntu, and now we have about 20. But it is possible, that about 100 people will come...
<juliux> elkbuntu, you can get a coffee flat;)
<Syntux> @now Amman
<ubottu> Syntux: Current time in Asia/Amman: May 06 2008, 22:56:38 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 3 minutes
<elkbuntu> well, i've only got 45 minutes to spare before i have to run off for a rudely cooincidental breakfast meeting
<amachu> hi i am also here
<RoAkSoAx> emgent, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards
<emgent> argh changed.
<emgent> ok thanks RoAkSoAx
<Andre_Gondim> @now
<ubottu> Andre_Gondim: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 06 2008, 20:03:29 - Next meeting: Community Council in 56 minutes
<mdke> ah drat
<mdke> silly time zones
<mdke> see you in an hour then
<elkbuntu> oh what?
<mdke> elkbuntu: drat!
<elkbuntu> mdke, yeah, this calculated as now for me
<sabdfl> emgent: no, those will be handled by the regional boards from now on, unless someone is contentious and it gets escalated to the CC
<sabdfl> sirex`: sounds awesome! Please give my regards to everyone there. It has been ages since I was in Vilnius.
<no0tic> hi mdke :D
<mdke> hi there no0tic
<Schwitzd> hi all
<Schwitzd> mdke: :D
<sirex`> sabdfl: ok :) BTW you are welcome to come again in Vilnius..
<mantiena> sabdfl: it seems you visit in Vilnius was pretty silent, not like Eric S. Raymond or R. Stallman visits :)
<emgent> heya mdke :)
<mdke> hi emgent, Schwitzd
<no0tic> so, where and when will new members be considered?
<mdke> no0tic: please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership for details. The regional boards will be up and running shortly
<nhaines> I was hoping the schedule might be mentioned at the CC meeting.
<nhaines> But perhaps not.  In any case, I'm really happy that they've finally been established.  :)
<nhaines> Is there a mailing list or other place I can get further information?
<boredandblogging> all the councils are working on it, am sure they will make it publicly known when they are open for business
<mdke> nhaines: only that wikipage for the present. Is there information missing which you expect to be there?
<no0tic> mdke "next meeting of the membership board for your region" where are the dates?
<stgraber> no0tic: AFAIK we haven't planned a meeting (yet)
<mdke> no0tic: as I said, they will be up and running shortly
<no0tic> stgraber, ok, so today no memberships?
<mdke> correct, sorry
<no0tic> mdke, ok, will tell that to our new candidates
<nhaines> mdke: Mostly dates, but knowing how early it is in the teams' lifecycles, then perhaps a mailing list where such things are being negotiated.
<nhaines> mdke: Mostly I'm concerned that I'll have no notice of the first regional meeting, seeing as CC meetings have been so unannounced in the recent past.
<mdke> nhaines: that shouldn't be a problem. Also, the meetings will be regular so even if you miss the first one, you should be able to attend one the following week. We've implemented a procedure to fix late announcements of CC meetings, as you'll see from the agenda page
<mdke> no0tic: thanks
<bimberi> nhaines: Subscribing to the regional team's agenda page on the wiki is one way
<RoAkSoAx> nhaines, you should suscribe to the wiki page and when they add dates, you will recieve a notification email...
<bimberi> great minds... :)
<mdke> afk
<nhaines> mdke: I do see that, and I believe that the CC meetings will be much more regular as a result.  Congrats on the work to fix what is an all-too-common problem.
<nhaines> If subscribing to the wiki page will ensure notification, then I shall do it.  :)
<emgent> hi Volans :)
<fdd> AFAIC the membership *problem* will be solved soon.
<Volans> Hi all
<nhaines> AFAIC?  What's C?  :)
<fdd> actually it is AFAICT: As Far As I Can Tell.
<fdd> my bad.
<nhaines> Ah!  Okay, that I would have recognized.
<bimberi> goodness me, some of those applicants have been waiting 6 months
<stgraber> so they probably can wait a week or two ? :)
<juliux> bimberi, they never appeare at a meeting;9
<fdd> @now Bucharest
<ubottu> fdd: Current time in Europe/Bucharest: May 06 2008, 23:28:09 - Next meeting: Community Council in 31 minutes
<nhaines> @now Los Angeles
<ubottu> nhaines: Current time in America/Los_Angeles: May 06 2008, 13:32:06 - Next meeting: Community Council in 27 minutes
<fdd> @now Bucharest
<ubottu> fdd: Current time in Europe/Bucharest: May 06 2008, 23:35:55 - Next meeting: Community Council in 24 minutes
<bimberi> juliux: They've probably given up :/
<juliux> bimberi, i think they never come to a meeting
<fdd> sure they don't.
<mantiena> but some of them (like me) are here now :)
<bimberi> Those regularly held, well notified meetings?  heh
<nhaines> bimberi: Well, that's what they're trying to fix.
<bimberi> nhaines: Yes, I'm coming cross too negatively I realise.  Things are on the improve. :)
<nhaines> bimberi: No sense in saying "it should have been sooner!" if at least there's now a solution.  Can't help that now.  :)
<fdd> @now Bucharest
<ubottu> fdd: Current time in Europe/Bucharest: May 06 2008, 23:44:57 - Next meeting: Community Council in 15 minutes
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 07 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 08 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team
<BunnyRevolution> i've listed my interest in the discussion topic at this address http://www.tatteredmoons.org/index_1.html for your review.  i'll take questions after the meeting starts.  i'll leave the link posted available for the hour.
<mdke> nhaines: I will try and announce by way of email to vaguely relevant mailing lists and the blogsphere when the regional boards are ready to go - we have just a couple of issues to resolve first
<nhaines> mdke: My anxiety is mainly due to my habit of not finding things out until the last minute.  I know setting up regional boards must be a massive amount of work and I have every confidence in the new system--just not in my ability to attend.  :)
<fdd> @now Bucharest
<ubottu> fdd: Current time in Europe/Bucharest: May 06 2008, 23:55:16 - Current meeting: Community Council
<nhaines> mdke: I'd also offer any assistance, but there I'd better leave it to the pros at this late time.
<mdke> nhaines: understood. We are nearly there, genuinely
<Andre_Gondim> @now recife
<ubottu> Andre_Gondim: Current time in America/Recife: May 06 2008, 17:57:37 - Current meeting: Community Council
<ramvi> @now stavanger
<ubottu> ramvi: Error: Unknown timezone: stavanger - Full list: http://jussi01.com/web/timezones.html
<juliux> hey tonyyarusso
<gnomefreak> hi tonyyarusso
<juliux> tonyyarusso, shirts are orderd today, they will arrive at the end of may
<sabdfl> evening all
<gnomefreak> hi sabdfl
<tonyyarusso> heya folks
<tonyyarusso> juliux: Very good :)
<mantiena> hi again
<nhaines> Evening, sabdfl.  :)
<sabdfl> who's here from the CC?
<mdke> o/
 * boredandblogging waves
<fdd> evening.
<tonyyarusso> ya
<tonyyarusso> win 6
<sabdfl> hey mdke - had the same issue with clocks :-)
<mdke> sabdfl: summer time is so bitter sweet
<tonyyarusso> Oh, did the sane countries just switch this weekend?
<mdke> a few weekends ago here
<juliux> tonyyarusso, in the middle of april
<tonyyarusso> juliux: I've lost track, since I think we did in March or some stupid thing.
<sabdfl> no sign of mako or dholbach
<juliux> ahh no at the end of march;)
<mdke> while we are waiting, a quick update on membership applications. As announced at previous meetings, we are setting up regional membership boards to consider membership applications. Instructions on how to apply can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership. The membership boards have been nominated, and we are just in the process of creating mailing lists to permit them to arrange meetings: if you subscribe to the wiki page for the board you ar
<sabdfl> lost some of that
<mantiena> :)
<sabdfl> after "wikipage for the board you ar" ...
<mdke> wiki page for the board you are interested in, you will find out when the first meetings are.
<sabdfl> hey james
<elmo> sorry I'm late
<mdke> thanks sabdfl
<mdke> hi elmo, Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey all
<nhaines> If no memberships will be considered at this meeting, then I shall keep quiet and listen respectfully.  :)
<sabdfl> thanks mdke for setting up the various teams
<sabdfl> are the lists pending the usual admin intervention?
<mdke> sabdfl: yes, although I only requested them this afternoon
 * atoponce is here, but teaching class. he will try to keep an active eye on the meeting
<sabdfl> elmo, what's the usual turnaround on mailing list creation for non-LP lists?
<mercmobily> Good morning
<Daviey> >3 months i think is the average :)
<sabdfl> what's Mike B's current nick?
<juliux> there is also a request for a mailinglist for the loco council open;)
<elmo> sabdfl: if we can assume jono's approval, I can have someone creat them tomorrow
<mdke> sabdfl: from memory it is MikeB
<tonyyarusso> last seen as Technoviking by me at least.
<jcastro> sabdfl: Technoviking
<atoponce> sabdfl: Technoviking or MikeB
<mdke> oops
<sabdfl> i'll channel the man and say +1 on behalf of jono
<sabdfl> he said he may be late, so let's get started
<mdke> agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<sabdfl> Burgundavia: ping?
<juliux> elmo, can you also create the loco council mailinglist? tickt in rt is allready open
<Burgundavia> sabdfl: yes?
<elmo> mdke: who wants to admin these lists?
<mercmobily> I Was wondering if I could humbly ask the chair person if I could be considered for membership first, since it's 5:00AM here and I would love to be able to go back to sleep. If it's a problem, please ignore this message.
<mdke> elmo: I'm happy to do so in lieu of the team secretaries and then hand over to them
<mdke> elmo: alternatively, we could just pick one person at random :)
<sabdfl> Burgundavia: just checking to see you were here!
<Burgundavia> I am, no worries
<elmo> mdke: I'll opter for you
<elmo> s/er//
<RoAkSoAx> mercmobily, please take a look to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/
<sabdfl> mdke: please make sure they appoint chairmen and/or secretaries as a first priority
<mdke> sabdfl: sure thing
<sabdfl> ok, i think we are open for business
<sabdfl> first item on the agenda is the concerns raised by paladine
<sabdfl> is he here?
<sabdfl> Paladine: pping
<elmo> juliux: that one is with jono atm, could you ping him please?
<Paladine> I am here
<sabdfl> is there a wiki page which summarises the issue?
<juliux> elmo, ok i will ping jono about that
<sabdfl> i recall that the commentary was removed from the agenda page in favour of having it elsewhere
<nealmcb> mercmobily: i.e. the process has changed, there will be no membership consideration today - the regional boards will be doing that "real soon now"
<mercmobily> roaksoak: that page wasn't linked from anywhere in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda . Does this mean that you are not actually getting members?
<Paladine> I did add details to the wiki but someone removed them (Hobbsee I think)
<mercmobily> neal: *ugh*
<tonyyarusso> Paladine: Is there a new page with them, separately?
<sabdfl> the agenda should just be one-liners, backing information should be in the wiki elsewhere and linked
<Paladine> nope, my instructions were to just raise my points at the meeting
<sabdfl> ok, Paladine you have the floor
<Paladine> thanks Mark
<sabdfl> in future folks, let's try get some sort of /Talk page with points of view together for an agenda item like this
<Paladine> I am actually very concerned that itit has come to this sort of action
<mdke> good idea
<sabdfl> hey scott
<Paladine> but over the past 12 months or so I have become increasingly aware of certain irc "volunteers" being rude and disrespectful both to users faces and in their #ubuntu-ops channel
<Paladine> I see ops regularly breaking the CoC
<Paladine> in multiple channels
<Paladine> then coming down hard on users for exceptionally minor infractions
<Paladine> and it needs to stop.  It is bad for the community and it is bad for the Ubuntu name
<Paladine> I could go an list literally dozens of examples but for the purpose of trying to get this resolved quickly I will paste just a few links
<sabdfl> Paladine: can you give examples of the sort of behaviour that you believe violates the CoC, without delving into personal incidents?
<gnomefreak> hi LjL
<LjL> hello
<Paladine> Mark, sure, I would actually prefer to do that than paste links directly to logs
<Paladine> there have been a number of instances (in fact it seems to be farely frequant) where the IRC team discuss users in #ubuntu-ops with utter disrespect and rudeness
<christel> (i'm here btw so if you want me to comment on anything dont hesitate to hilight me, i'd rather not jump in at random )
<Paladine> furthermore, in some of the official channels, certain ops kick and ban users just for fun
<Paladine> now, I know we all want to enjoy ourselves, but there cannot be any room for ops to abuse users
<Paladine> it is simply unacceptable
<penguim> Pretto, good luck
<Technoviking> sorry I'm late
<mneptok> hail Technoviking
<Paladine> thats the basic issue Mark, a systemic problem as opposed to isolated occurrences
<Paladine> so much so
<Paladine> that an unofficial channel has now become the chatroom of choice for a lot of long term ubuntu users
<sabdfl> which unofficial channel is that?
<atoponce> Paladine: can you give a specific example, backed up in logs, where an ubuntu channel op banned "just for fun"?
<LjL> #ubuntu-offtopic
<Paladine> now it is ##club-ubuntu
<BunnyRevolution> (i'm here, and i've listed only those incidents i've discovered pertaining me on a website page if requested, without names)
<Paladine> it was ##ubuntu-uncensored
<Paladine> but certain ops forced the channel name to be changed
<sabdfl> can you give examples of ops discussing users in a disrespectful manner?
<mneptok> Paladine: i'd be very interested in seeing clear, concise evidence of ops kicking users without any provocation.
<Paladine> sab, I could but I don't think it would be acceptable language to quote in this meeting to be honest
<ikonia> is it any co-incidence that the channel mentioned is filled with people who have serious bans against ubuntu ?
<Paladine> I would point the concerned parties to the #ubuntu-ops channel logs over the past couple of months for reference
<BunnyRevolution> i will - http://www.tatteredmoons.org/index_1.html
<mdke> Paladine: don't worry about that, we have thick skins. It would be helpful to point us to a few examples in the logs
<Seeker`> Paladine: Are there any more specific examples - there must be hundreds of pages of logs
<gnomefreak> Paladine: i think since sabdfl asked it would be fine to post
<ogra> Paladine, thats why we have /msg :) send it so sabdfl in a pm
<ogra> s/so/to
<Paladine> mark give me a second I will dig a couple out
<christel> while Paladine has never contacted freenode regarding ubuntu, we have seen a growing trend of complaints from users who feel harassed by or personally persecuted by members of the ubuntu ops team over the past few months
<Paladine> ok here is a simple 3 lines paste (this is quite a tame one)
<Paladine> [03:07] <elkbuntu> yeah. the way he's bitching
<Paladine> [03:08] <Pici> Oh, I take it you havent been around when kahrytan is there...
<Paladine> [03:09] <elkbuntu> yeah, he needs repeated bullets to his brain too
<Paladine> I find that sort of behaviour utterly reprehensible
<Paladine> and completely against the CoC
<sabdfl> indeed
<mdke> christel: that's sad to hear. Do you have a mechanism for referring such complaints back to the Ubuntu community governance?
<Pelo> Paladine, what channel is this from , to help put it in context ?
<juliux> that issue reminds me to #chaostreffpunkt
<LjL> i find scaring LoCo leaders away from their LoCo totally reprehensible, too
<Paladine> Pelo, the paste is from #ubuntu-ops
<christel> mdke: we ask the users to take it back to ubuntu, we're not really in a position to act on them unless they are a actual network issue
<tonyyarusso> I would like to note that there were pairing complaints filed by the ops team against certain users, but those for some mysterious reason were dropped rather than being passed on to people like christel.
<sabdfl> ok, let's discuss the specific question of the language in #ubuntu-ops
<Paladine> I actually left all the official Ubuntu channels in protest to the treatment of a user and ended up being banned as a result of leaving
<Paladine> which is a little strange in my eyes
<sabdfl> folks in the CC?
<christel> interfering with the running of a project's channel(s) would alas be outside our scope
<tonyyarusso> uh, we have never banned for leaving, either.  Could you show the logs from that?
<mdke> christel: sure. We can talk later about how we can help identify the relevant complaints arena for such users so that you can refer to
<sabdfl> elmo? mdke? Burgundavia?
<LjL> sabdfl, I'd like to point out that #ubuntu-ops has long existed as a channel for *operators to exchange opinions/information*. It also serves as a point of contact for users. For transparency, it was decided that the channel be logged.
<mdke> sabdfl: yes, I'm here and reading.
<LjL> *I do not believe*, however, that operators should watch every single word they say there.
<christel> tonyyarusso: that appears to be a misunderstanding, which i believe the ubuntu irc council will discuss (some assumption about how having people on the irc council who also volunteer for freenode making any ubuntu issue automatically a freenode issue or some such)
<sladen> Paladine: regardless of the reason [given] for the ban, was the ban perpetural, or just for a short time?
<tonyyarusso> christel: it would be helpful if those could somehow be forwarded to the Group Contact, although I'm not sure how would be the best way for that.
<mdke> guys. Let's slow it down
<christel> mdke: i generally tell them to speak to jono, as i reckon he doesnt have enough to do :D
<Paladine> the ban was lifted after multiple complaints were made to the actual channel registrar
<sabdfl> LjL: ops are acting in a leadership capacity here
<Paladine> the most recent ban I am mean
<ogra> LjL, it should still respect the CoC
<Paladine> which was against emma in #ubuntuforums by Pricechild
<mdke> please leave the floor open for the CC and Paladine for the moment, we'll invite some more comments shortly
<christel> but yeah, we even had one case of a user threatening to sue us over us allowing him to be 'abused' by the ubuntu ops
<Burgundavia> hmm, reading
<tonyyarusso> christel: somewhat agreed, although portions of it were specifically asked to be taken upwards within Freenode, and we were told such was being done, and found out later it never was.  Odd all around, but we'll deal with that separately.
<christel> tonyyarusso: aye :)
<mdke> the key point is the one that sabdfl has identified already, that ops have extra responsibilities because they act in a leadership capacity. Bad language, in whatever environment, is inconsistent with that
<Paladine> it is not just bad language that is the issue
<mdke> it's very important that ops lead by example and don't adopt aggressive language
<mc44> mdke: because no-one ever swears in -devel, right?
<Paladine> some ops have been going around literally harassing emma
<Burgundavia> mc44: there is swearing and then there is swearing at somebody
<Paladine> to the point where they even masqueraded as new users to try and get her to say something they could then ban her for
<mdke> mc44: I don't think you read my message. We ask our *leaders* to assume extra responsibility
<Paladine> LjL you know who you are
<stdin> Paladine: emma is guilty of the same
<ikonia> inappropriate
<LjL> Paladine, that was because emma harrassed users to begin with.,
<LjL> However,
<LjL> I have already stated my position about what I did to the CC.
<Paladine> whether emma was behaving appropriately or not it irrelevant
<Paladine> you have signed the COC you mustn't behave inappropriately
<LjL> I think I'll leave it to them to decide whether that particular topic should be debated.
<gnomefreak> i would like to respectivly as emma to bring up his/her own issues at a meeting instead of being talked about without being here
<gnomefreak> s/as/ask
<tonyyarusso> Nobody tried to get her to say something - we knew that she was saying it, but was smart enough not to say it directly to us.  We had reports of the same from other users, and the uncloaked users were used to confirm the report (successfully).
<emma> Excuse me, mark or whomever I should be addressing, I've been sitting here quietly since I just barely got home from work. Since I see my name being mentioned quite a bit, may I have the floor?
<mdke> gnomefreak: we're discussing a general issue, all examples are relevant
<mdke> let's hear emma now
<gnomefreak> mdke: shes here anyway :)
<sabdfl> mc44: people should not swear at or about each other
<Technoviking> where the people like emma and kathyn?? treated poorly when they was first banned, or only after multiple instances of trouble
<emma> Hello sabdfl
<tonyyarusso> agreed.  (although all sides are at least equally guilty on that point).  Room for improvement, certainly.
<sabdfl> emma: go ahead
<nalioth> Technoviking: two completely seperate incidents
<mc44> sabdfl: right, I don't think there has been repeated directed swearing, which isn't to say it should happen at all
<emma> Technoviking, just to answre that question only for myself. The first Ubuntu op who I ever felt antagonized by, was on my first interaction with them. They have recently left the Ubuntu community though and I do not want to dwell on negative things.
<emma> Thanks sabdfl -- First of all, I realize this might not be the best place to say this, but it's really cool to speak to you. :)
<emma> This is a statement that I wrote in case my name was mentioned, and especially since I did not expect to be able to be here at all ---http://emnode.blogspot.com/
<emma> If everyone could just please read that.
<sabdfl> thanks emma
<emma> yw
<Burgundavia> thanks
<Daviey> I should probably mention that emma has been banned across all #ubuntu channels (even channels she's never been in), and the #ubuntu-uk ops were questioned if we should also ban her.  Emma has been in #ubuntu-uk for a fair while now, and has been a very useful member of the channel.
<ikonia> sabdfl: could you explain to me how that statment has anything to do with anythign being discussed at this meeting ?
<emma> Oh shoot I just noticed it does not link --   http://emnode.blogspot.com/
<emma> (for convenience. sorry.)
<ikonia> Daviey: I disagree on that
<sabdfl> emma, have you ever sent private message spam to other ubuntu users?
<LjL> sabdfl, please, define what you mean by "spam" first.
<LjL> Or we'll go through what we've already painfully gone through multiple times.
<tonyyarusso> Yes, that will be a key point.
<emma> I do not spam people.
<sabdfl> is there not a standard guide to "pm spam" in ubuntu?
<Paladine> yes I think spam is difficult to define and this is where a lot of the problems lie
<Scunizi> I was the recipient of an unsolicited PM request to join #ubuntu-unsensored from emma.
 * ogra doesnt think we have a pm rule at all
<Paladine> I would class spam as someone deliberately disrupting a channel in order to advertise a commercial service or resource
<mdke> what is the complaint about emma and why has she been banned from those channels?
<ikonia> Paladine: why does it have to be comercial
<LjL> sabdfl, no, there is no guide to "PM spam" that I am aware of. I'd say that's a part of the guidelines that's currently left to common sense.
<Paladine> I don't class someone being friendly with new users and telling them about other uuntu channels on freenode as spam
<ikonia> Paladine: I do
<Paladine> ubuntu sorry
<ikonia> Paladine: it's not an ubuntu channel
<juliux> Paladine, that is spam
<stdin> when it's unsolicited, I do
<Paladine> ikonia, thats your opinion and you are welcome to it, it is not shared by me
<sabdfl> emma was characterised as sending people "pm spam" and i'd like to understand what that means
<mneptok> sabdfl: repeated requests to /join other, non-official channels via /msg
<mdke> yes, let's find out what has been done, rather than everyone expressing their own opinions about spam
<Paladine> emma you still have that log of the disguised op?
<Technoviking> was she mass inviting people to the #ubuntu-uncensored channel?
<LjL> Paladine, of course she does.
<christel> (i'd dare say you can't have a rule preventing people from pm'ing anyone else in $common_channel -- it would open a entirely different can of abusable worms)
<LjL> And I do.
<emma> Paladine - No. That was posted by the op in question on the Ubuntu pastebin themselves and now it is gone for some reason...
<mneptok> Technoviking: yes, but not on the 2008-era botnet level of "mass"
<popey> sabdfl: I agree with Daviey, i was approached by another op, inferring that i wasn
<LjL> emma, Paladine, I can surely dig that log up if needed.
<popey> er
<emma> sabdfl -- If you like I could clarify what I have actually done and not done.
<popey> wasnt impartial in #ubuntu-uk, because i didnt stamp on emma
<mdke> what attempts were made to resolve the issue by discussion?
<sabdfl> emma: please do clarify
<mneptok> mdke: there were numerous discussions in -ops about the behavior, and we asked it be stopped. /join'ing official channels only to selectively seek other users to surreptiously invite them elsewhere is not productive.
<LjL> There were numerous private discussions, I believe, too.
<emma> sabdfl -- I'm a social person long before I ever found out IRC existed. I am relatively new to IRC but I am the same here. I have certainly pmed people to get to know them. And most of them have become friends to one extent or another.
<Pretto> my first time here, and i would like to ask if every meeting works like today, everybody saying things at same time, some personal fights...
<nhaines> It seems, if I may say so, that *selective* targeting is not precisely mass-spamming.
<LjL> nhaines: the selectiveness being?
<Seeker`> Pretto: This topic has been creating friction for a while - it is not usually like this
<Pici> Pretto: This is a particularly emotionally charged meeting...
<mdke> nhaines, LjL - please leave issues of definitions until later
<stdin> Pretto: it's not the norm thankfully
<LjL> mdke, what the hell!
<nhaines> LjL: Selectiveness was mneptok's qualifier, not mine.
<LjL> mdke, you're asking questions
<LjL> sabdfl is asking other questions
<nhaines> mdke: understood.
<emma> sabdfl -- I also certainly don't deny that in the course of a conversation, I have told people I have gotten to know about things I do and am interested in, if I feel like they welcome that exchange.
<LjL> it's not clear whether we should reply, or let Emma speak first
<LjL> honestly
<LjL> I'll do myself a favor if I use the following command
<Paladine> I think it would be prudent to let emma speak
<Pretto> ok.. thank you, i think that someone could leader who will talk at time
<sabdfl> let emma speak, please
<sabdfl> emma: have people often complained that they felt your pm's were unwanted?
<emma> sabdfl -- No.
<mneptok> sabdfl: the -ops team has had complaints from a number of users.
<Paladine> ops team have had complaints or have sought out complaints?
<Paladine> thereis a big difference
<gnomefreak> Pretto: normally ther eis but this is a heated topic im guessing for a while i just got back after a 3+ month leave
<Pici> We have had complaints.
<mneptok> Paladine: just what i said.
<tonyyarusso> mneptok: Say, are any of the ones you happen to know of around atm?
<sabdfl> mneptok: what sort of complaints?
<sabdfl> for example, are they "i am getting totally spammed here"? or "should I join this channel i've been invited to?"
<mneptok> sabdfl: "i don't know this person." "is this other channel official?" "is this person related to the community in an official regard?"
<gnomefreak> complaints == banned users that feel they were justified in what they did or users that were never banned complaining?
<sabdfl> emma: when you pm people, is that after you've had personal exchanges / conversations with them in the public channel, or are you pm'ing people you've never exchanged with in the channel?
<mneptok> sabdfl: also along the lines of "i don;t want this person /msg'ing me. can you help?"
<Pici> gnomefreak: Not that sort of complaints.
<sabdfl> Pici: is that what you meant? what mneptok is describing?
<gnomefreak> Pici: ok thanks just trying to catch up :)
<Paladine> let's give emma a chance she is not the worlds fastest typist and she is more than a little intimidated by this whole affair
<Pici> sabdfl: Exactly. or "is emma a bot? why is this person messaging me about this channel"
<ikonia> yeah, I'm sure she is
<sabdfl> Pici: are we talking 3 people? or 30 people with those questions about emma's pm's?
<emma> sabdfl - That has varied. I will some times pm people (in ubuntu channels or otherwise) based on the interesting things they have said in channel or that I've seen them say in the past.
<tonyyarusso> likely somewhere in between, although I doubt anyone's really been counting.
<ikonia> how does that relate to #ubuntu-uncensore
<emma> I would like to point out that #ubuntu-uncensored no longer exists
<ikonia> it did until a week ago
<ikonia> so it's a mute point
<ikonia> why did that channel exist before you where banned
 * Pelo wants to know if the ppl were complaining about getting one invite or if they were getting hammered 
<ikonia> why is that channel mentioned if your just dicussing things of interest
<emma> I have had a a real interest in cooperating with -ops and when I understood that my channel was antagonistic to the community it is gone.
<tonyyarusso> Pelo: Generally one or two per user, but spread among many users.
<Paladine> given that there are about 70 people currently online who feel emma has been mistreated (some people in ubuntu-uk and other in ##club-ubuntu) I think it is fare to say that the "regular" irc community members don't agree with the ops interpretation on this matter
<ikonia> Paladine: 70 of 10000 is not regualr
<sabdfl> emma: when you pm someone you haven't spoken with before, would you usually be pming them about something to discuss, or asking them to take an action like join a channel?
<ikonia> Paladine: given that 4 of the users have serious bans/issues hanging over tham, thats not the best CV to poist
<mc44> Paladine: excuse me, you shouldn't speak for others, being in a channel is not supporting a position
<Pici> sabdfl: I honestly cannot put a number on it, I've witnessed more than 3 complaints myself, but I have purposely trying not to keep track (being an op is stressful enough)
<mneptok> sabdfl: i think the bigger issue is that the behavior was asked by the official -ops team to be stopped, and emma self-vetoed that. she may not agree, but the first instance of disagreement should have been before this council. instead, we're hearing what may well be the last.
<tonyyarusso> Note that it took over a month of clearly stating that the channel name was unwelcome (but outside of our namespace) before anything changed - it wasn't a matter of "say, could you change that?" 'sure.'
<sabdfl> the reason i ask is that i think it's different to engage someone in a personal conversation ("hey, did you see this slashdot article, it reminded me about what you said yesterday")
<christel> ikonia: #ubuntu-uncensored was closed pretty shortly after its conception when nalioth (iirc) explained channel naming policies to emma and she moved the channel to unofficial namespace
<sabdfl> from "please join this channel we are having fun"
<emma> sabdfl -- I would usually be talking to them as I would talk to someone I met say at a grocery store who uses the same spaghetii sauce that I use.
<ikonia> christel: I was in there 2 weeks ago
<tonyyarusso> Paladine: Membership in that channel is not tied to believing she was mistreated - people are there for various reasons.
<christel> ikonia: sure you werent in ##ubuntu-uncensored? :)
<ikonia> christel: %`150
<sabdfl> emma: but the complaints seem to be centered around your invitations to join channels
<sabdfl> it seems those complaints would most likely be from people you didn't really have a personal relationship with
<sabdfl> so i'm guessing the invitation was one of the first things you were sending them, right?
<christel> ikonia: strange, then someone must have hax0red my databases to fake the registration and drop dates.. :)
<Paladine> could I just interject a second please Mark
<mneptok> emma: you still seem to fail to understand that when the ops ask you to stop behavior in official channels, you stop. you don't decide the CC would disagree with the ops and continue the behavior.
<Daviey_a> If emma would be so kind, it might be helpful to have a log of one of her pm's - so we can gauge what happend?
<tonyyarusso> sabdfl: Usually the conversations consist of two to five lines of "small talk", and then asking the user to join the channel.
<emma> sabdfl -- To be totally frank with you. I am sure that I am not a spammer, there is no way for me to account for the perceptions of an unnamed and uncounted number of people.
<BunnyRevolution> sabdfl: emma's pm'ed me, and her first, second, third etc. pm was unrelated to any channel abuse or op abuse going on.  i personally don't find a pm as intrusive.
<bascule> ikonia: you are clearly wrong #ubuntu-uncensored forwarded to -offtopic for a long long time
<Pretto> i think that the focus was lost, even emma has made some kind os spam, the topic was about bad ops beharvior
<Paladine> with respect, even if she was being a little "enthusiastic" in making people aware of the unofficial channel, it does not and never can excuse the hate campaign which commenced as a result by certain members of the ubuntu ops team
<nickrud> Pretto, emma's issue just encapsulates the ops behavior, as well as some too vague policies
<ikonia> bascule: ##ubuntu-uncensored, because ubuntu-uncensored was closed, it's my mistake
<emma> sabdfl -- Even having said that though, once the Ubuntu leadership which I consider to be rational and respectful spoke to me and explained exactly what they did not like, I did not continue to do the same thing I was doing.
<bascule> OK :)
 * Pelo seconds Pretto comment
<Pici> I think we are getting off topic here, the name of the channel was just another part of the issue, but clearly not the main one at this point in the discussion.
 * sladen stands up as somebody who *hasn't* been spammed/invited by emma
<sparklehistory> emma private messaged me completely out of the blue, I'd never talked to her before and usually don't speak that much in #ubuntu-offtopic.  She asked if I wanted to join/idle in a free-wheeling unregulated ubuntu channel called ubuntu-uncensored.  After clarifying that this was not the same sort of idea as -offtopic I declined.
<mneptok> emma: long after you were asked to stop, you PMed me and invited me to a channel.
<emma> sabdfl,  This last point I made is pretty important for me to highlight.
<emma> what sparklehistory just said is not true and I think that nalioth may be able to confirm that he is speaking a falsehood.
<Paladine> we are somewhat missing the point here, my complaint was not about emma, my complaint (on the agenda) was about the resulting behaviour from ubuntu ops
<zarul> going offline  to work now.. please take note for later membership vote... +1 for nbliang , he contributed a lot
<zarul> thanks!
<sabdfl> emma: the point about changing your behaviour once "ï»¿the Ubuntu leadership which [you] consider to be rational and respectful spoke to [you]" ?
<emma> sparklehistory, is on the -ops logs coming on April 2nd to comment on a PM he received from me on MARCH 5TH.
<emma> I encourage you to look at the -ops logs for April 2nd.
<mc44> Paladine: do you count banning from ubuntu channels as qualifying a major part of this hate campaign?
<stdin> Paladine: I believe the ops are attempting to justify some of the behaviour of which you speak, so it's on topic
<emma> This was obviously not something that was eating at him and it would appear that he only came in after some op encouraged him to do so.
<ikonia> emma: any chance you could answer marks question ?
<sabdfl> sparklehistory: is that the case? that you only raised the issue two weeks later?
<emma> Also and this is key -- He posts his link to the pastebin of our PM with a password. It appears that he gives nalioth the password.
<Paladine> mc44, I regard the blanket banning of emma and the conversation which took place in #ubuntu-ops as reprehensible
<Paladine> conversations
<ikonia> sabdfl: could you please repeat your question about if the respected ops staff asked emma to stop her behaviour ?
<Pelo> Paladine, do you have a log of this conversation ?
<emma> In the post that sparklehistory just presented to this meeting he says that I told him about Ubuntu-uncensored but that is not true. In the PM that I had with sparklehistory I never once mention the name of any channel.
<Paladine> Pelo, there are multiple instances of this sort of behaviour, not just directed at emma but directed at other users including me (for simply raising the point on the agenda)
<emma> sabdfl - Sorry there seems to be many threads at once to respond to at the moment :)  Yes, it is important for me to highlight that after the  Ubuntu ops leadership that I respect spoke to me and explained the pattern they did not like, I never repeated that pattern.
<sabdfl> emma: ^^ please could you reply to that?
<tonyyarusso> Paladine: are there more other than the link you gave earlier?
<ikonia> at what point did they ask you ? before after the 5th of march ?
<emma> sabsdfl - by 'that' do you mean your penultimate question to me?
<sabdfl> emma: why do you say you respect some leadership but not others?
<Paladine> tonyyarusso, as I said the #ubuntu-ops logs over the past 6-8 weeks at least are littered with similar behaviour, it would be silly to paste them all
<emma> sabdfl - I have more to say that is positive about the leadership I respect than I would want to say negative about the rest. :)
<tonyyarusso> Paladine: It woud be far easier to see your point if they were aggregated rather than claimed though.
<bascule> tonyyarusso: I have one http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/04/30/%23ubuntu-ops.html 4:00 onwards
<ikonia> emma: please stop dodging the qestion
<BunnyRevolution> i've tried to stay outside of the issue, and have managed to do so for the most part, but have began to experience the same abuse researching the issue, op abuse is not confined to emma.
<sabdfl> emma: i'm thinking about what you're saying, and it creates a problem for me
<sabdfl> we appoint an IRC council, they appoint ops, iirc
<Paladine> tonyyarusso, I would rather not drag the meeting into a mud slinging contest.  I would advise that key members of this committee review the logs at a more appropriate time
<sabdfl> and we can't have a situation where people listen to some ops but not others
<mneptok> BunnyRevolution: TBH, you come to -ops at least 3 times per day, say nothing, and leave. it causes people to begin to question your motives. personally, i don't consider you to be impartial.
<Paladine> there certainly isn't enough time in this meeting to cover all the points
<sparklehistory> sabdfl, I didn't raise the issue until it was pointed out to me by tonyyarusso that that sort of thing shouldn't be happening.
<sabdfl> if some ops are not respecting the leaders' CoC, that should be escalated immediately
<sabdfl> but the fact remains, they are leaders in the community
<emma> sabdfl -- Re: Your IRC Council --- Nalioth, PriceChild, and LjL are three of them that I feel I can work with and not feel insulted.
<sabdfl> sparklehistory: what else had you and tonyyarusso discussed in regard to emma? was there a suggestion that a complaint should be filed?
<BunnyRevolution> as the ubuntu irc channels are a form of ubuntu support many people see this as a reflection of Ubuntu.  op logs that are littered with language, and poor remarks that would not be allowed in any other *buntu channel is "approved" of in ubuntu-ops
<mneptok> emma: i think you are missing the point that it is not your judgment call about whose requests to respect.
<Pici> bascule: Thats quite tounge-in-cheek, not everything in the -ops logs should be concidered serious, we're quite sarcastic people at times.
<sabdfl> emma: i don't think i can support your decision only to listen to some members of the council, and not others
<sabdfl> if there are issues, those should be raised, but selective listening just divides the leadership of the community
<BunnyRevolution> in reality i've always seen the *buntu channels as sponsered by Canoical
<Daviey_a> sabdfl,  I don't think that is what she is saying
<emma> Here is the log where sparklehistory comes in on April 2nd to talk about something that happened on March 5th --- http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/04/02/%23ubuntu-ops.html
<sparklehistory> sabdfl, nothing else really, I mentioned to him that this had happened and he told me I should report in -ops so others were aware of it, I did and that was it
<sabdfl> Pici: people who cannot contain their sarcasm should not be leaders in Ubuntu
<emma> See 06:37
<wobblywu> hi
<bascule> Pici: well yeah, but it comes from somewhere, now I know no-one is perfect, but if people are given position, they need to be 'better than' but all in all, I think it will just cause ops to be more discrete in what they say rather than change the underlying attitudes
<BunnyRevolution> mneptok: if i had stated my intentions, would you have allowed me to continue to peruse the channel?  sometimes research does not allow intentions to be made clearly.
<sparklehistory> sabdfl, correction, I don't believe emma actually mentioned the name but from hearing about the -uncensored channel I put the two together
<mneptok> BunnyRevolution: the /topic of -ops clearlyt discourages idling or using the channel for any other purpose than to report issues. this includes intelligence gathering. we'd like it to stop.
<emma> In the log I just linked to you can see that sparklehistory posts a pastebin of our pm.  sparklehistory just stated here in #ubuntu-meeting that I told him the name of my channel. If infact nalioth saw that pastebin as it appears he might have, he can confirm that sparklehistory history is not telling the truth.
<Seeker`> BunnyRevolution: If you just wanted to see what is being said, you could look in the logs
<sabdfl> emma: how many people would you say you have invited to join this channel?
<emma> sparklehistory, thank you for your correction. I am glad that we sorted that out.
<stdin> BunnyRevolution: your quite obvious intent to hide your ID was what made use suspicions of you in the first place
<Pici> This particular conversation was within operators, we were not addressing a particular user within the channel, most lines were followed by :P and was ended with </rant>.
<Paladine> Pici, that doesn't make it ok
<nixternal> sabdfl: you have mail
<sparklehistory> emma, yeah, it was awhile ago and it's hard to keep things straight
<emma> sparklehistory, so you feel it is spamming even when I give you no information that actually leads you to the channel?
<Paladine> I was insulted by the behaviour even though it was not directed at me
<Pici> Paladine: I'm just elaborating.
 * BunnyRevolution bows out for the afternoon
<sabdfl> Pici: the way you say something has as much impact as what you are saying
<sabdfl> Pici: it is simply unacceptable to call an ubuntu user a "fucker" or to suggest they get bullets in their brain
<emma> sabdfl, I do not know to be honest with you. I can tell you that I pm vastly many more people than I have ever told about any channel I am a part of. And I am a part of many channels on Freenode.
<mdke> I think we are hearing enough issues from users who are expressing their problems in a measured way to think that there is potentially an issue of governance in the irc community
<sabdfl> totally, utterly unacceptable
<bascule> Pici: inderlying attitudes, and actions that can corroberate that attitude are apparent
<ikonia> emma: you are only part of about 3 channels on freenode that you do not own
<Pici> sabdfl: I'm not defending that.  I'm only saying that not everything is always serious.
<mdke> issues will always arise in any area of the community, the key is to deal with them in a mature and conciliatory way to ensure that they do not become polarised
<emma> sabdfl - as proud as I am of my ubuntu related channel I am an op or contact in several others channels here, and one of them is rather serious.
<mneptok> sabdfl: personally, the only brain i think about vis-a-vis bullets when on IRC is my own. :)
<mdke> it looks like that isn't always happening here
<Paladine> just to try and cool things down for a minute, I have a suggestion on how we might improve the situation if I may?
<OgMaciel> mdke: +1
<emma> ikonia -- How exactly would you know that?
<ikonia> emma: I have whois'd you
<sabdfl> Pici: i'm not going to repeat myself ad nauseam here. the comments referred to are unacceptable, and i for one will not support an operator or irc council member who takes that tone as a matter of course
<mdke> ops have a duty to show extra responsibility and maturity, and to take extra time to explain decisions to users, and to explain how to escalate issues if they disagree
<emma> ikonia -- why?
<Paladine> Mark, the problem is one I have encountered several times in the 17 years I have been using irc and running irc servers
<gnomefreak> i think the pm issue people have are related to !pm factoid as people should be asked to pm unless its official reasons
<Paladine> inevitably there comes a time where people develop and ego
<sparklehistory> I found it disconcerting if be pm'd from an official ubuntu channel from someone I had never spoken to before who was not an official and asked to join a non-sanctioned channel even if the specific channel wasn't named.
<ikonia> emma: because of your known behaviour, and to be honest, because I can
<emma> ikonia -- apparently many many times in order to know what channels I am 'a part of' on some long term scale?
<Paladine> and that has happened here with regards to ubuntu users and channels
<mneptok> sabdfl: "as a matter of course" +1. but be aware, emma's actions, inactions, and behavior disrepsectful to the commitment made by the -ops team made this a somewhat irritating issue.
<ikonia> emma: not at all, everytime you first highlight me, my irssi script whois's anyone
<sabdfl> sparklehistory: it's a big, wide world out there
<emma> ikonia -- Are you an Ubuntu op or part of Ubuntu leadership? I've noticed you have said my name in here many times today, but I'm unsure about your role in this.
<ikonia> so I know who I'm talking to
<sabdfl> how can you be "pm'd from an official channel"?
<Paladine> the ubuntu ops seem to be desperate to control every single channel where ubuntu users want to hang out
<sabdfl> pm'ing is outside of channels altogether?
<mneptok> sabdfl: i don't mean to excuse the behavior, merely point out that circumstances in this case may mitigate or explain it.
<mc44> sabdfl: when someone pms everyone who joins that channel
<ikonia> emma: as I've made clear to you on many occasions, I am nothing to do with ubuntu
<emma> ikonia - Okay then I'm feeling I need to focus on the people who are to do with Ubuntu right now. :)
<tonyyarusso> sabdfl: (followup to mneptok, the more serious comments were also for a much, much more serious problem as well, so while I can't excuse them, there is a factor of "heat of passion" kind of thing to consider.)
<JanC> I think some people in ops have been under a lot of pressure due to trolls & other stupid people, resulting in them getting cynical and having a low threshold for anything that looks disrupting...
<sabdfl> mneptok: nonetheless, just the nick will do, insulting references are unacceptable
<ikonia> emma: this is a public meeting
<ikonia> emma: I'm asking a valid questions
<sabdfl> ikonia: what is your role in ubuntu irc ops?
<ikonia> sabdfl: I have no role, other than a community memebr
<ikonia> member
<mneptok> sabdfl: agreed. it's not excusable, but maybe a bit understandable, given human nature.
<sabdfl> ok, then ikonia please sit back for a while
<tonyyarusso> JanC: I would say that is a fair assessment.
<ikonia> sabdfl: fair enough
<sabdfl> It strikes me that censure is a fundamental part of the Ubuntu community.
<sabdfl> The existence of a CoC is specifically to identify conduct that is unacceptable, and the implication is that unacceptable conduct will be censured.
<mdke> JanC: that seems to match what I am hearing too
<sabdfl> There is no implication that, just because Ubuntu is a very human-oriented, and freedom-oriented, project, that anybody can do what they like, on Ubuntu resources or spaces.
<sabdfl> In fact, our willingness to ask people to change their behaviour, or even to leave the community if they won't, is core to the commitment we have to a productive community.
<gnomefreak> JanC: i have to agree the job is very stressful at times and people (including myself at times) sometimes get a little over zelous
<sabdfl> so i am supportive of ops who are firm in maintaining documented standards of behaviour
<sabdfl> IRC is unusual in that censure is more rapidly applied in this medium than in others
<nickrud> JanC, and -ops has also become a place ops go to to release some steam, hence the hyperbole
<sabdfl> and it's delegated very far - to specialists and passionate irc ops
 * Pici listens (er, reads)
<sabdfl> but that creates a potential for abuse, or misunderstanding, that quickly results in community divisions
<tonyyarusso> (re: nickrud, that practice dates back to when #ubuntu-ops was a more private channel, and perhaps it hasn't adapted well to us deciding to make it publicly logged.)
<sabdfl> it would take a lot longer to decide to ask someone to stop contributing in, say, mailing lists
<JanC> I think it helps if ops don't have too much work; maybe we should try to get more (good) ops that are "local" to a channel?
<sabdfl> emma: i am very concerned that you would choose to continue with behaviour that ubuntu ops have asked you to cease
<sabdfl> though i have to say i'm also upset at the language and tone taken by some of those ops
<tonyyarusso> JanC: There has already been the beginnings of some of that discussion, actually.  It would definitely help.  AFAIK, two or three have actually been added since release day for 8.04 or shortly before.
<gnomefreak> JanC: since ive been back someone has Floodbot in #ubuntu to take a bit of a load off of the ops so they can be somewhere else inforcing rules or whatever
<sabdfl> what do other folks on the CC think at this stage? elmo? mdke? Burgundavia? Technoviking?
<mneptok> emma: bear in mind, the best way to gain repect is to show it. and ignoring the clearly stated wishes of trusted community members does not engender respect. while everyone should be respected as a matter of course, it's unfair to ask people to maintain respect for -non-reciprocal people.
<ompaul> gnomefreak, that would be LjL
<emma> mneptok - I feel the same commented could have been made by me and many other ordinary Ubuntu users. I believe there is a CoC that is even stronger for leadership and when leadership breaks the cycle of respect that is when people can really become hurt.
<gnomefreak> ompaul: ah thanks
<tonyyarusso> JanC: (there was also a coincidental occurence of more especially troublesome issues at the same time than usual recently, which is part of the problem too.)
<Pici> I'd like to hear from the rest of the CC as well.
<sabdfl> emma: did you escalate your concerns to the CC?
<sabdfl> or did you just ignore the folks you didn't think were being respectful enough towards you?
<mdke> sabdfl: I can only repeat what I said above, to be honest. I think that we have a potential problem here, arising out of the fact that irc is a live medium and makes emotions run high.
<sabdfl> yes
<Daviey_a> sabdfl, emma didn't know the CC existed until recently
<Burgundavia> indeed. This is an issue we have dealt with before
<mneptok> emma: i can say with no hesitation that you chose to ignore requests, repeat unproductive behavior, and decide there was a list of leaders you would ignore long before ops began to lose respect for you.
<emma> mneptok, sabdfl I have a documented history of being a considerate and positive part of ubuntu channels where the cycle of respect was not broken by the leadership there.
<Technoviking> while I don't excuse the ops comments, I do feel they are "heat of the moment" issues
<ikonia> emma: I have documented history of toublesome behaviour ?
<mneptok> emma: we're talking about -ops. this is where your behavior and actions were discussed.
<sabdfl> emma: nonetheless, deciding you don't like a leaders behaviour does not give you licence to ignore them, it gives you grounds to ask that their approach be reviewed
<mdke> from what I am hearing and from complaints that I have seen in the past I think there is an issue about helping ops try to rise above those issues
<ikonia> mdke: or supporting them in their decisions
<emma> sabdfl - As Daviey_a said and also, I believe the standard order of things is to take your concerns to the Ubuntu IRC Council first. And I have done that. And I trust PriceChild and Nalioth completely.
 * Pelo wonders if the "club-house" mentality of the -ops might not be a large part of the issue 
<mdke> and I'm in particular concerned about what christel said about freenode receiving a few complaints
<sabdfl> yes, +1 mdke
<sabdfl> christel: can you give us some idea of the complaints?
<Paladine> Mark, with respect, emma didn't know about the cc, which is why I raised the agenda issue.  but even saying that, after the point was raised on the agenda there was talk among the ops of blocking the agenda items simply because I did not approach the irc council first
<mneptok> Paladine: emma was informed of the IRC Council and CC quite a few times early in the discussions
<Paladine> and the reason I didn't approach the irc council was because I had no confidence that the issue would be dealt with
<nealmcb> I think more regular meetings of the IRC council would help.
<tonyyarusso> Pelo: See previous comment about it's history actually being as a private channel.
<mdke> I think when an issue arises with a user and the ops team communicates a decision to them, we should always work to ensure that there is (a) dispassionate discussion of the issue first, involving the user without intimidating them, and (b) communication of how to escalate the issue if there is a disagreement, including to the CC if necessary
<emma> mneptok, I do not recall that. I believe I did not know about the CC until I found my name on one of the wikis.
<sabdfl> Paladine: you would nonetheless have a documented meeting at which your concerns would be raised and discussed, which the CC could refer to
<christel> sabdfl: i can certainly try -- now, as you are probably all aware we generally don't meddle in channel affairs, doing so would be abusing our powers and go against everything we stand for. However, we are very happy to try mediate where there is a interpersonal problem.
<mdke> nealmcb: I think that is a good idea
<mc44> mdke: I think that happens. The complaints seem to be about things said in publically logged channels not directly to users
<tonyyarusso> nealmcb: Actually, more regular meetings of the entire IRC team would help.  That again is something we had been moving towards, although it's had a little less traction in recent weeks due to personal time constraints than it did earlier in the winter.
<Pici> nealmcb: As an op I agree with that as well.
<nickrud> I can't agree more wth nealmcb
<juliux> but you also have to see the point of the irc ops, if you get spammed by some persones over weeks it is realy hard to respect the coc, so i think it is human if you write what you feel, and if you are an irc op on a high traffic channel it is more hard
<mdke> mc44: well, I think we're all agreed that those are unacceptable
<emma> sabdfl, mneptok , I suppose that most or many people discover the Ubuntu community first and then get into Ubuntu. I discovered Ubuntu from a book store. I only found IRC after already installing Ubuntu. And only then much later did I learn about the forums and the much larger community.
<Paladine> Mark, that's true, but I felt the issue was getting so out of control I didn't think it would be good for the community to delay the issue with a meeting I felt would not resolve anything as some of the members sitting on the committee are the same I have witnessed being abusive
<bascule> mc44: but lets not play down that is is a demonstration of an attitude in total
<mc44> mdke: yes, however in person I think the logs show complaining users are treated patiently and respectfully.
<gnomefreak> Pici and nealmcb +1 on the more meetings
<emma> sabdfl, I regret some what that I have only begun to learn about the community aspect of Ubuntu after a few people have tried pushing me out of it.
<ikonia> what a sob story
<mneptok> emma: yes, and among your first acts here was to repeatedly tell the -ops team how to run things. or wht you'd do. or what's being done incorrectly, in youyr opinion.
<christel> occasionally though, users believe that we should police every channel on the network (which, with 15 active volunteers, 48K daily users and just under 15,000 active channels is somewhat impossible) and we occasionally get a few complaints about particular channels or projects hit us rather than the projects GCs/IRC councils/whatever they may be calleds
<mc44> mdke: for example, I believe civil conversations with emma in ops amount to hours of time
<mdke> ikonia: that is not a helpful comment
<mneptok> emma: it's like arriving at a party and saying "this food is terrible. and the music sucks." not a great way to win friends and influence people. :)
<ikonia> mdke: neither is cyring wolf every 30 seconds
<christel> over the past few months we've had a few instances where users have contacted us saying that they felt abused by #ubuntu-ops ops
<Paladine> irrespective of the facts or allegations, I think that the seriousness of this issue is illustrated by the number of people who have come here this evening to voice their concerns and therefore it needs addressing
<mneptok> emma: there are constructive ways to criticise. forking channels and attemtping to siphon users is not among them.
<emma> mneptok, I think that you and I have had good pm conversations and I consider you someone I've become friendly with. :)
<sabdfl> christel: several of the Ubuntu ops folks are also Freenode staffers. I for one am grateful for the experience they bring and the cross-pollination of leadership between Ubuntu and Freenore, but I want to know how those folks separate between project behavioural rules and network rules.
<mneptok> emma: (one man's opion to the last few statements)
<mdke> mc44: sure, it's very difficult for us to judge individual situations at that sort of detailed level. We can only respond to the fact that we've had several complaints and that they seem to be from sensible people
<sabdfl> christel: how does ubuntu compare with other projects in size, users, and complaints?
<christel> sabdfl: i'll get to that in a moment
<mc44> mdke: yet these complaints relate, as far as I can tell, to the banning of two people
<mdke> mneptok: I don't think establishing unofficial channels should be so actively discouraged. We don't do it with websites
<PriceChild> Apologies for being late, here now and catching up.
<sabdfl> mdke: i agree, but i can see that there are subtle issues when it comes to the promotion of those channels
<mdke> mneptok: I'm told that freenode policy provides for the channel to be prefixed with ##, and if its unofficial nature is explained in the topic, I can't see an issue.
<mdke> sabdfl: yes, I'm not addressing the promotion issue
<tonyyarusso> mdke: No, that wasn't particularly the problem, but rather the original choice of name combined with the content of the channel at the time.  The new channel is significantly better in both regards, actually.
<sabdfl> for example, if someone set up "ubuntuexpertsforhire.com" and started pm'ing people in #ubuntu-* about it, we would have issues
<christel> the most noteworthy of our complaints have been related to 'namecalling' and 'kick bouncing' and one particular incident where the user in question felt they were being persecuted for being disabled
<sabdfl> that would be outside the trademark guidelines
<tonyyarusso> sabdfl: Note there there was (is?) ubuntu-uncensored.com.
<sabdfl> i can totally see that someone setting up an unofficial channel and pm'ing tons of people about it would feel like spam
<sabdfl> especially if they were asked not to do it, and then continued to do it
<mneptok> mdke: agreed. but to participate in the official channels with what appears to be the sole purpose of recruiting users away from them dances close to the edge of the CoC, IMO.
<tonyyarusso> Yes, still is.
 * Pretto thinking about what is used to elect an user as an channel operator.. irc commands knowledge? community beharvior? friendship with another op?
<sabdfl> what is kick bouncing?
<mdke> mneptok: yes, I'm not addressing the promotion issue
<ogra> sabdfl, i think she meant kick banning
<nealmcb> I think and a description for the record in this conversion of the number of folks on the irc council and  the number of ops (with a link to their nicks, policy documents, etc) would be helpful.
<christel> now, as a result of these complaints we choose to take a closer look at -ops, being somewhat surprised at recieving complaints -- ubuntu has always been one of the projects who we keep using as an example of a 'great community which is well run'
<mneptok> mdke: without active promotion in official channels, i have no issues at all with people creating unofficial channels.
<sabdfl> what's kick banning?
<christel> sabdfl: yeah, by that i mean repeatedly kick banning people
<mneptok> mdke: (to be clear) :)
<ompaul> removal and banning
<mdke> mneptok: is the same true of the whole team?
<christel> ie. kicking a user from a channel without banning them
<ogra> sabdfl, kick them out and ban so they cant re-join
<sabdfl> ok
<mneptok> mdke: i would not presume to speak for them.
<mdke> mneptok: (as far as you are aware of that)?
<mneptok> mdke: want me to guess? ;)
<wobblywu> kick bouncing would be not banning the user, but repeatedly kicking them out and letting them join in again (then kicking them out again, etc)
<christel> sorry, when just kicked you can (and many clients do so automatically by default) rejoin
<mdke> mneptok: it hasn't ever been discussed as a team?
<stdin> mdke: it wan't just the promotion of the channel, it was it's anti-ubuntu topic
<mneptok> mdke: not in any fora in which i have been involved.
<tonyyarusso> nealmcb: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc/+members ought to help.
<mneptok> mdke: but, history shows no real problems with any unofficial channels other than emma's. make of that what you will.
<tonyyarusso> nealmcb: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InternetRelayChat for documents.
<Pici> nealmcb: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines for more info
<Paladine> mneptok, so seveas threatening to "sue" me for starting ##ubuntu-politics about 14 months ago is ok then?
<tonyyarusso> mdke: I have no issue with creation of unofficial channel provided that they don't deliberately tarnish the Ubuntu mark, which in the early incarnations was the case more so.
<mneptok> Paladine: hardly what i said.
<sabdfl> we have no problem with a -sucks domain, i don't see why we would have a problem with a -sucks channel
<bascule> tonyyarusso: the mark, or the ops?
<sabdfl> (we pre-registered a few sucks domains iirc :-))
<christel> now, we choose to look at #ubuntu-ops to see if there was anything we could do to help get things back on track, what became apparent to us is that the ops team is pretty small and often very busy, causing the individuals to wear out quite quickly -- which, i'll be the first to admit can make it pretty hard to be nice and polite and all sugar and spice when trying to deal with 'a problematic user' or even just a user who needs things ex
<mdke> christel: "user who needs things ex... [cut off]"
<christel> ah, sorry
<mneptok> christel: snipped at "ex..."
<christel> explained in a different to normal manner
<mneptok> ...plained ....
<sabdfl> yes, i think the team is stretched, the community is huge
<emma> sabdfl, I would like to reiterate that once the Ubuntu leadership that I respect came to me and spoke to me about their concerns in a way that was rational and respectful, I have cooperated with them. The channel that keeps being referenced no longer exists.
<tonyyarusso> bascule: Mark.  Although it did quite a bit of the latter as well, that wasn't in the name and such affiliated with the behavior.
<ikonia> emma: when was it removed
<ikonia> emma: to be %100 clear, when was ##ubuntu-uncensored shut down/removed
<christel> the ubuntu ops team believe in transparency, which is well and good -- it also has drawbacks, it means that when a public channel is where you bring users to talk to them about what you view as a problem the user in question often enter a defensive mindset by default, they feel publically humilated and belitted
<sabdfl> emma: please don't make me repeat my distress at your selective listening for designated leaders, regardless of their behaviour
<stdin> emma: after many, many hours of discussion, like the 2.5 hour chat we had
<mneptok> emma: the ##ubuntu-uncensored channel does not exist, but it auto-forwards to ##club-ubuntu
<bascule> tonyyarusso: probably not the right place but I fail to se the tarnish of the mark, and I don't really understand the second part
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 07 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 08 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<Paladine> the point is it shouldn't have been removed in the first place, I see no issue with an unofficial channel called ##ubuntu-uncensored
<emma> sabdfl -- And while I do not feel I am a spammer, once the Ubuntu leadership that I respect came to me and spoke to me in a rational and respectful way about their concerns about PMing people, I have not done anything to repeat that pattern either.
<Pici> Pretto: Regarding new operators, we look at helpfullness in the channel, history of kicks/bans (we have software that tracks that), and we bounce op ideas off of each other before someone makes the offer.  We usually start off with one channel at a time for new ops.  also, Ubuntu membership is not a prereq (I'm not a member yet, but applying soon)
<mneptok> emma: "closed" and "moved" are not the same thing
<bascule> tonyyarusso: I will talk to you somepoint :)
<PriceChild> ikonia: as far as I am aware, emma renamed it.
<ikonia> PriceChild: to ##ubutu-uncensored
<sabdfl> emma: i'm growing impatient with your continued emphasis on the "...that i find reasonable and respect" part of that statement
<christel> when they then are 'screamed at' by ops and kicked with kick messages like 'LIAR' etc they don't really feel that the -ops team were in any way trying to mediate or solve a situation
<Pretto> Pici, me too
<christel> either way, i'm going off tangent -- it's a frustrating situation for users and channel ops alike, we often have frustrating situations among freenode staff too, but luckily we can use eachother as sounding boards and ask someone else to take over when we feel we are close to losing patience with a user
<wobblywu> I propose we all get silly drunk together, forget any of this has ever happened, and move on
<mdke> I'm trying to think of how we can take this forward. I think we need to work with the ops team to find solutions to issues that have been raised this evening, such as understaffing, atmosphere in #ubuntu-ops, escalation processes, and so on.
<sabdfl> christel: could you address my question about freenode and project rules, and how people who wear both hats should operate?
<christel> thats a bit more difficult in a situation like #ubuntu-ops where it all takes place in public and the ops often are on their own at the time of trying to work with a user to find a solution
<bascule> wobblywu: practical to the last :)
<mdke> perhaps we can begin an email dialogue between the CC and the ops team to work on those
<sabdfl> leadership in a fishbowl
<Technoviking> mdke: +1
<Paladine> I also think we need some non "ops" on the irc council to help present a neutral view
<mdke> I think we can all recognise that being an op is one of the hardest jobs around, we just need to work on ways to make it easier to do and to ensure that users all get a fair discussion
<Paladine> but thats just my opinion
<christel> sabdfl: yes i can, our internal policy dictate that you dont wear both hats at once -- we also ask that if a situation is such that it makes it impossible to stay impartial due to the project cross-over you step away from the situation as far as fn staffdom goes
<PriceChild> Paladine: if someone is of sound enough judgement to be on the irc council, why wouldn't they be ops?
<emma> sabdfl,  my apologies. I only mean to say that there were some ubuntu leadership that were antagonistic to me and that made it impossible for them to communicate with me. I just want to be clear that I am cooperative with Ubuntu leadership and that while we are talking about this pming, it's not something that I continued doing.
<OgMaciel> I feel that mdke has pretty much nailed a plausible solution about 30 minutes ago
<popey> Paladine: i suggested similar at UDS Sevilla but was pooh poohed
<popey> (by the irc ops)
<mdke> Paladine: well, a team council is specialist by definition, but we could have others subscribed to the mailing list and better escalation to the CC
<sabdfl> How do folks on the CC feel about the statement that we expect ops to maintain a respectful tone and to refrain from referring to users in derogatory terms?
<tonyyarusso> mdke: If you do, you should be aware that there are more people on the -irc mailing list than just the ops.  Just a thing to note.
<Pici> (not cc) but I think that should be a given regardless of situation.
<nealmcb> mdke: +1 on escalation policies, particulary "(b) communication of how to escalate the issue if there is a disagreement, including to the CC if necessary"  and the irc council
<mneptok> sabdfl: i'm not on the CC, but +1 from me. i think we also must relaize that Ubuntu is for human beings, not just "humans beings of infinte patience and restraint." missteps will be made.
<sabdfl> emma: if you think an ubuntu leader is violating the CoC, please escalate that issue, but respect their wishes nonetheless
 * ogra expects ops to stick to the CoC as much as himself as a ubuntu member
<Paladine> Pricechild, I don't want to be an op, I have a lot of commitments, but I would be happy to sit as a "civilian" on the council and I am sure many others would too
<emma> sabdfl, I will do so.
<Technoviking> sabdfl: +1
<christel> you also asked about size, there's a fair few projects of similar size to ubuntu using freenode, as for complaints, we don't often get a series of complaints regarding a channel/project/namespace -- there's a couple for which we do, ubuntu didn't use to be one of them until very recently
<tonyyarusso> popey: I believe the concern was experience of the situation, although our team has now been around long enough that we could start seeing "retired" ops who might be good for that purpose.
<nickrud> having someone who's not in the fishbowl as a reality check is a good idea (imho) Paladine
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia, for instance, not that he has time.
<sabdfl> Paladine: it's a lot easier to call for patience and counselling of difficult users when one isn't in the firing line or committed to doing that counselling
<christel> now, i also believe that part of why there's been a rush of complaints may likely be related to the very public nature of some of the issues as raised above (for instance emma/-uncensored)
<christel> people bandwagon, this is no exception
<popey> tonyyarusso: i dont believe that was the case
<Paladine> Mark but that is a good thing, it keeps things more objective and less emotionally driven
<mdke> sabdfl: that statement is fine by me, although I think we should pursue things a bit further too, and work with the ops team directly on how we can improve all the issues facing them
<sabdfl> i certainly don't want to see an escalating war
<nhaines> As a former op in a high-volume channel, +1 to sabdfl's point on patience.
<dthacker> perhaps volunteers who handle users well could be recruited?
<sabdfl> emma, i would ask you to stop making a habit of inviting people to a different channel, when all you have in common is that you met them in an ubuntu channel
<christel> i agree, patience is important, setting an example is also important -- you can't expect your users to behave better than you do ;)
<sabdfl> mdke: +1
<emma> sabdfl - Done. :)
<Paladine> Mark, emma (to my knowledge) stopped inviting people some time ago
<sabdfl> christel: i would also like to say that ubuntu may choose to be more firm about censure than other projects
<ikonia> Paladine: she's in the channel
<tonyyarusso> dthacker: that might be an interesting point - semi-professional catalysts, if you will, who don't do the actual moderating?
<mc44> mdke: Most of those issues such as patientence and escalation don't seem to actually have been accused or presented evidence with.
<sabdfl> and we would expect all ubuntu ops to stand firm on the CoC
<nhaines> Paladine: sabdfl did not accuse, but asked for an ongoing commitment.
<sabdfl> even as we expect them to remain polite in doing so
<nbliang> sorry guys, running out for work. have to wait for the next meeting again... :(
<Paladine> nhaines, I am not disputing that, I just thought it was worth making clear that it doesn't happen anymore
<christel> sabdfl: i would be very glad if i saw the -ops team back to following your code of conduct 110% and all of the time :)
<sabdfl> if there are freenode staffers who are also ubuntu staffers, then in #ubuntu-*, the ubuntu CoC should hold, and censure is fine, if respectfully handled
<mneptok> sabdfl / mdke: you may count on personal time from my life in dealing with these issues. if helpful.
<nickrud> !membership > nbliang
<mdke> mneptok: thanks.
<popey> christel++
<gnomefreak> what about a nuetral person example someone who is good with the community is given 1/2 ops to moderate between ops+users with issues?
<Daviey_a> As a resolution, emma has agreed to stop - is there a reason her whole #*ubuntu* ban should still exist?
<christel> and how you run your channels is up to you, we've never attempted to overrule or change any decisions made by the irc council or ubuntu ops
<gnomefreak> s/person/people
<christel> nor have we suggested that they undo any bans or similar set
<sabdfl> nbliang: membership is nwo going to be handled by regional boards, not the CC, please see the agenda
<mdke> right, I'll investigate taking these issues further with the ops team, and we can work with freenode to ensure that any complaints received can be pointed to the right place for escalation
 * l3on says "Bye all! (interesting, but too late here)"
<sabdfl> thanks mdke
<sabdfl> ok. phew
<sabdfl> hopefully, that also dispenses with the second item on the agenda
<tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: I think it's worth looking into, although the specifics will need some hammering out, surely.
<christel> we have however, refused to place network wide bans when they have been demanded by -ops :)
<Paladine> the logging item?
<sabdfl> and the third is handled by our shiny new fixed schedule
<sabdfl> Paladine: yes
<gnomefreak> tonyyarusso: agreed just an idea to add to help this whole situation
<mneptok> mdke: ping me offline and i'll see if i can offer any worthwhile insight.
<christel> and will, should it not be a network issue, continue to do so :)
<mdke> thank you to everyone who has attended to discuss their views, and has taken time out with this meeting
<Paladine> no Mark, I have other concerns there
<Paladine> ones I take very seriously indeed
<sabdfl> Seeker`: agreed?
<tonyyarusso> Daviey_a: We're still evaluating peripheral behavior.  It may be declining, but generally speaking bans that took three months to earn take longer than most to earn removal of as well.
<Pici> christel: Those were regarding complaints of 'stalking' correct?
<sabdfl> ok, Paladine, what is the logging issue, briefly?
<Seeker`> sabdfl: Yes - I agreed last time, but noone took it off the agenda :)
<christel> Pici: stalking?
<tonyyarusso> Daviey_a: We will most certainly be keeping an eye on things and looking for an appropriate time though.
<Paladine> The IRCSeek Israelie company logging official channels
<sabdfl> Seeker`: you can edit the agenda yourself
<Pici> christel: Perhaps not, nevermind then :)
<Seeker`> sabdfl: will do
<christel> Pici: no, i've never heard of any stalking related stuff :)
<sabdfl> Paladine: there's no problem with logging
<PriceChild> The irc council made a decision about IRSeek, and I have independently invited Paladine to discuss them with us. I'm not sure why this is being escalated to the CC first?
<christel> (not related to ubuntu anyhow)
<tonyyarusso> christel: lucky :)
<Paladine> Mark, anyone who knows me, and many do (whether for good or bad reasons) knows I am very active in the privacy arena
<Paladine> whereas we don't object to canonical logging the channels
 * tonyyarusso needs to step out to microwave food - hilight me if necessary please.
<Paladine> many of us do object to a 3rd party commercial venture doing it
<stdin> Paladine: the IRSeekBot is only in channels where ubuntulog is already logging anyway
<mdke> Paladine: "we" being?
<Paladine> mdke, dozens of users have discussed this over the past couple of weeks
 * popey is slightly disturbed that Paladine insists on mentioning that irseek is isreili whenever it is mentioned ;S
<sabdfl> popey: +1, seems irrelevant
 * stdin assumed it was a typo
<popey> -typos
<sabdfl> Paladine: google finds the logs anyhow
<gnomefreak> is someone in the community linked to IRCeek?
<Paladine> popey, whether I like it or not, I do have an issue with the fact they are israeli (whether that is a problem down to me I don't know) but I would object to any 3rd party company doing the same irrespective of where they are from
<mdke> I've heard something about this question before
<nhaines> I'm not sure there can be a reasonable expectation of privacy in an open, public forum such as mailing lists, web forums, or IRC.
<mdke> I can't really see a problem with the logging, myself, especially for channels that are already logged
<popey> Paladine: would you have the same issue if they were Scottish? Welsh? Arab?
<Paladine> sabdfl, yes you can find the logs on google, but it would take a lot of effort for someone to bring all that data together an duse it
<nickrud> mdke, not to drag emma back into this, but her objections to it precipiated -uncensored and all the rest
<Paladine> but for one company to control all of that as a commercial venture makes things more sinister
<Paladine> popey, yes
<Daviey> sinister?
<popey> "control" == store
<elmo> I'd like to echo PriceChild's question about why this is being escalated to us, if it hasn't been discussed with the irc council first?
<Seeker`> Paladine: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<Paladine> as I said I would have the same issue with any 3rd party company doing it
<elmo> Paladine: ^--
<nhaines> What if it were an individually run service for free?  Why would that be more or less sinister?
<popey> Paladine: so why mention the country of origin if it's irrelavent?
<ogra> Paladine, they could just scrape irclogs.ubuntu.com
<stgraber> Paladine: I have previously done some scripts parsing logs in irclogs.ubuntu.com, it's as easy as if you have your local IRC client logging the channels
<mdke> elmo: +1 from me.
<stdin> honestly we can't be sure there aren't unofficial log-bots in the channels anyway (there probably are), so what's wrong with an officially sanctioned one?
<sabdfl> CC - please vote on a proposal to ask the IRC council to discuss this publicly with paladine and other concerned folks, then put up a /Talk page with viewpoints, if it needs to be escalated to us
<juliux> Paladine, why are then in this channel?
<mdke> lets have some discussion first in the IRC council, and then we can discuss a documented issue if necessary
 * popey copies his logs to a public place
<mdke> sabdfl: +1
<elmo> sabdfl: +1
<Technoviking> sabdfl: +1
<sabdfl> done
<LjL> sabdfl, there is some discussion already on the public Ubuntu IRC mailing list.
<sabdfl> ok Paladine?
<Paladine> juliux, because if I hadn't been I would have wasted everyone's time with my agenda items
<Paladine> yes mark
<LjL> I'm not sure Paladine has intervened in it.
<sabdfl> LjL: let's ask the IRC Council to discuss it and prepare the viewpoints if it is still necessary for us to review ig
<LjL> sabdfl, there is one problem.
<sabdfl> ok, bimberi around?
<mdke> Paladine: Hopefully you can resolve this with the irc council. If you feel the issue needs to come back to us, please write up a wiki page setting out the issues.
<Paladine> sure mdke I am happy to do that
<LjL> sabdfl: I am, as you know, an IRC Council member,
<sabdfl> bimberi's suggestion on the agenda, for regional boards to give precedence to those have been waiting, is noted
<LjL> If other members of the IRC Council are willing to go *again* on a discussion that has been done numerous times before,
<Paladine> can I just thank the organisers for moving this meeting date from the original meeting which I was unable to attend
<mdke> bimberi's agenda item is fine - we will certainly work to ensure that all the people in the list on the agenda for the CC are transferred to relevant regional boards
<mneptok> Paladine: personally, i find your distaste for the company based on their nationality to be counter to Ubuntu's philosophy. i would suggest politely you keep such portions of your opinion to yourself. i speak only as an individual in the community.
<sabdfl> LjL: perhaps they could skip the discussion and prepare the summary of viewpoints on the matter, for us to review
<LjL> -- If other members of the IRC Council are willing to go *again* on a discussion that has been done numerous times before, they can do that. However, I won't contribute.
<Pretto> mdke, that was the question i had, does we have to fill the proposal again?
<sabdfl> Paladine: i would echo mneptok's concerns in that regard, they colour your privacy concerns unnecessarily
<LjL> Actually,
<mdke> Pretto: you don't need to prepare another personal wiki page, one is enough
<popey> mneptok: ++
<sabdfl> Pretto: the CC wants to have a document in the wiki that summarises this issue, it will be faster than a long IRC conversation
<nhaines> mdke: Pretto was concerned about the regional board agenda pages.
<ogra> mneptok, ++
<Daviey> mdke, sabdfl elmo, As a resolution, emma has agreed to stop - is there a reason her whole #*ubuntu* ban should still exist?
<Paladine> I can accept that criticism, I don't like being more warey of them because of their origin but I would be dishonest to deny it
<Paladine> however
<RoAkSoAx> mdke, some of us have already transferred to the regional boards, (and i've told other users to do the same) but we are not in the same  order (in the list) and we don't have the same date of application as in the CCAgenda
<Paladine> as I said I would have the same issue with any company
<mdke> LjL: I think what we'd like is for Paladine to detail exactly what problems he sees, for these to be considered by the IRC Council in case there are some issues that weren't considered already, and then escalated if necessary
<emma> My name was mentioned again. It is true that I've also been very passionate and vocal about my distrust of IRSeek. And my opinions about IRSeek did seem to cause me trouble.
<nhaines> Paladine: focus on the substantive issues.  If they are strong, they will stand alone.  :)
<RoAkSoAx> mdke, but i don't believe that's a problem
<elmo> Daviey: I think that's a question for the the IRC council?  (though, I'd be interested in their answer)
<Technoviking> Daviey: That is upto the irc council I would think
<Pretto> sabdfl, i know that... i meant that how does you guys will know that i want to be a member, the last council wiki was removed the proposal
<mdke> RoAkSoAx: I think the boards will be quick enough to process applicants that it won't be a problem. but I'll make a note to raise the issue
<sabdfl> Pretto: i'm sure the regional boards will outline a process
<LjL> mdke, wait a moment, is the *IRC Council* being asked to prepare a memo with "viewpoints", or is *Paladine* being asked? It's not the same thing.
<emma> I would like to say that I have been in contact with the CEO of IRSeek and have had quite long discussions with him. I have found him to be an extremely good guy and very receptive to my concerns. As a result of my talks with IRSeek, IRSeek is implementing policy changes which put the issue to rest for me.
<sabdfl> LjL: it should be a /Talk style page, with all viewpoints addressed
<mdke> LjL: we'd like Paladine to set out his issues, and for the IRC Council to consider them
<emma> I am now very comfortable chatting in and being part of channels that IRSeek is in.
<stdin> Paladine: then there's no need to mention your dislike for it's origin, and there's no point in raising it
<sabdfl> don't trample on someone else's view, add your own, and the CC will review and make a decision
<mdke> LjL: that can then result in a wiki page with different views if applicable
<emma> You can see the result of my discussions with the CEO of IRSeek here --- http://emnode.blogspot.com/
<Pretto> sabdfl, i will wait to see what comes next, can i suggest one thing?
<LjL> mdke, sabdfl: what is wrong with using the extant, faily extensive Ubuntu IRC mailing list thread about it?
<LjL> Look, seriously, you're wasting a lot of time, and I really do feel I'm wasting too much of mine.
<PriceChild> LjL: I think we can summarise those in one document.
<PriceChild> LjL: I will summarise them in one document.
<sabdfl> thank you, please allow otehrs to add to that document, and we will review
<sabdfl> LjL: because I don't have the time to review an entire thread, when it can be summarised into one document
<mdke> LjL: a mailing list thread can be used for further discussion, although it is easier for us, if we need to consider the question, to review a wiki page
<LjL> sabdfl: a "Talk" page in the Wiki style you seem to be suggesting is going to be no shorter than a ML thread.
<mdke> LjL: it can be the same mailing list thread, or a new one, it doesn't matter
<nealmcb> emma: thanks - I hope you include a summary of that in the proposed talk page
<Paladine> I will put together a document of my concerns over the next week Mark and forward it to the irc council
<sabdfl> LjL: yes, it is
<mdke> Paladine: thank you
<emma> nealmcb, you are welcome.
<Pici> LjL: Lets let PriceChild put it together for now, as he is willing to take the time.
<mdke> PriceChild: thanks for that
<sabdfl> Paladine: please put it in the wiki, give yourself a paragraph or n for your views, allow others to state theirs, ask people not to repeat points already made
<sabdfl> keep it objective. the nationality of the company in question is absolutely not relevant
<Paladine> can users add new wiki pages?
<Paladine> or do I need someone else to create it?
<sabdfl> Paladine: yes, they can
<Paladine> ok I will do that then
<Technoviking> sorry I have to go get my son from school
<sabdfl> thanks all!
<mdke> right, let's close the meeting. It's been a long one
<stdin> Paladine: all you need is a launchpad account
<popey> Paladine: give me a shout if you need help creating wiki pages
<gnomefreak> 18:54 <      gnomefreak > emma: can you add the concerns you had to the talk  page or ML as he only talks about the experation date
<nealmcb> Thanks to all for their passion, time, patience and honesty!
<sabdfl> but enjoyable, thank you all for participating
<gnomefreak> sorry posted in wrong channel
<mdke> the next meeting will be on 20 May at 11 UTC
<Paladine> will do popey, thanks
<Paladine> I have a launchpad account
<popey> np
<sabdfl> night all
<gnomefreak> night sabdfl
<Pici> goodnight CC
<mdke> thank you for everyone who took the time to help us with these issues
<nhaines> Good night, sabdfl.
<ogra> night sabdfl
<mdke> and for keeping the discussion civil :)
<tonyyarusso> mdke: "long one"?  Clearly things have been successfully changed since the last one I made it to!  ;)
<popey> mdke: ++
<nealmcb> mdke: :-)
<Paladine> thanks Mark and everyone else who attended
<ompaul> cheers
<mdke> tonyyarusso: well, a long discussion of the first item. Night all
<emma> gnomefreak, my concern with IRSeek had been that it seemed impolite. I feel that a real-time, semi-social interaction like chat is more like a conversation and having everything you do or say recorded for all time, to be read by people you cannot know, is too high a burden.
<bascule> bye
<nealmcb> I'll once again suggest the use of mootbot for these meetings to organize the agenda better
<gnomefreak> emma: thank you
<emma> yw.
<ogra> emma, but they can easily pull it off irclogs.ubuntu.com
<Pici> nealmcb: I dont think we have the mootbot up and running yet, although its on the list of things we need to do with the bots.
<mdke> agenda updated; I'll do a short report tomorrow for the team report
<LjL> Pici: does the list say "everything"?
<nealmcb> Pici: ahh - thanks - It is a great service, but I know you all are coping with a lot of new work :-)
<emma> My concerns about IRSeek were sincere and passionate but my conversations with the IRSeek board has lead to IRSeek policy changes that fully address those concerns -- The logging that IRSeek does now, allows for the grace of time to mercifully erase mistakes (large or small) that is commonly expected in conversation-like social exchanges.
<emma> That's really all I can contribute to this part of the meeting. Thank you all for listening to me as much as you have.
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-07
<Andre_Gondim> @now recife
<ubottu> Andre_Gondim: Current time in America/Recife: May 06 2008, 20:04:29 - Next meeting: Platform Team in 6 hours 55 minutes
<wobblywu> so, I managed to miss the rest of the meeting, didn't I?
<bascule> it was all OK in the end wobblywu
<bascule> nothing catastrophic :)
 * mneptok got waylaid by paying customers
<mneptok> nighty, folks. back to the treadmill!
<gnomefreak> @now new_york
<ubottu> gnomefreak: Current time in America/New_York: May 06 2008, 20:15:45 - Next meeting: Platform Team in 5 hours 44 minutes
<IdleOne> evening all sorry I am late
<IdleOne> maybe I'm not
<MenZa> Maybe the meeting's over. :)
<IdleOne> heh maybe. is it?
<MenZa> The CC-meeting? Yes.
<IdleOne> are you serious
<IdleOne> omg
<IdleOne> all day I have been waiting and I missed it :/
<gnomefreak> its been over for over an hour
<IdleOne> gnomefreak: I was sure it was for 8:30 eastern time
<MenZa> Turns out it wasn't.
<gnomefreak> no 7pm EST
<MenZa> @now EST
<ubottu> MenZa: Current time in EST: May 06 2008, 19:40:21 - Next meeting: Platform Team in 5 hours 19 minutes
<gnomefreak> no thats not right either
<gnomefreak> more like 5 EST maybe
<MenZa> lol
<MenZa> Or four
<IdleOne> it's 2040 now
<gnomefreak> maybe 4 but i think 5 :(
 * MenZa nods
<gnomefreak> i was there if that counts
<ogra> IdleOne, really? then i'm already over 70 years old now, damend, time flies
<IdleOne> lol
<MenZa> :D
<IdleOne> gnomefreak: is the log for todays meeting up yet?
<gnomefreak> IdleOne: not sure since we lost the secritary
<gnomefreak> yes that isnt spelled right but you get the hint :)
<IdleOne> yeah
<nalioth> gnomefreak: it was 5pm EST
<gnomefreak> nalioth: thanks
<nalioth> gnomefreak: it was 4PM CST
<nalioth> on the wiki page, there is a link to tell you what time it is gonna be where you live
<IdleOne> nalioth: or gnome or anybody else could you please help me to find the link for when the US-council is meeting next ?
<IdleOne> gnomefreak*
<gnomefreak> thats a bit harder but CC said they are gonna get everyone where they need to go
<IdleOne> so I guess I can expect an email few days before the neeting from The fridge?
<IdleOne> meeting
<gnomefreak> its not on the page i thought it was
<IdleOne> yeah thought so also but figured I wuld ask in case I was not seeing something
<gnomefreak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<gnomefreak> IdleOne: ^^^
<IdleOne> ty
<gnomefreak> anytime
<IdleOne> ok that is where I add myself but there are no dates lol
<IdleOne> for the next meeting
<gnomefreak> IdleOne: maybe email them and find out or ping one of the council members
<IdleOne> will do
<gnomefreak> IdleOne: nixternal is most likely the easies to reach
<gnomefreak> or mikeB
<IdleOne> thanks for the info :)
<emma> IdleOne, here's a little Ubuntu tip I did for myself --- I set my clock on the Gnome pannel to use UTC :)
<IdleOne> emma: hehe yeah I might have to do that also but then I'll end up late for work everyday or early
<emma> hehehe
<Pretto> gnomefreak, the decision to change how new member will be aproved was made today?
<gnomefreak> Pretto: it was made a while ago its finished being set up today IIRC
<Pretto> gnomefreak, ok.. i see.. i got a little frustrated with that decision made just in time
<Pretto> i was just couting the days left
<IdleOne> well Im off . thanks for the help gnomefreak emma and nalioth
<IdleOne> oh MenZa you too :)
<emma> welcome IdleOne see you around.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 07 May 12:00 UTC: Bugs for Hugs Day | 07 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 08 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team
<nickellery> @now PST
<ubottu> nickellery: Error: Unknown timezone: PST - Full list: http://jussi01.com/web/timezones.html
<nickellery> @now Vancouver
<ubottu> nickellery: Current time in America/Vancouver: May 06 2008, 22:40:06 - Next meeting: Platform Team in 19 minutes
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Platform Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 May 12:00 UTC: Bugs for Hugs Day | 07 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 08 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team
<TheMuso> Greetings folks.
 * ArneGoetje waves
<cjwatson> good morning Vietnam
<asac> welcome
<james_w> morning all
<evand> heh, 'morning
<cjwatson> slangasek may not make it; he was ill earlier
 * ogra puts matches under the eyelids
<TheMuso> Ouch.
<cjwatson> bryce,calc,doko_: around?
<TheMuso> That would keep my eyes closed I think.
<ogra> well, they stay open that way without effort :)
<doko_> good mornign
<cjwatson> slangasek: ah, wasn't really expecting you; feeling better?
<slangasek> cjwatson: better, though tired :)
<cjwatson> so, hello everyone; as usual my mail has not yet caught up overnight, so I'm missing any late agenda items anyone sent
<cjwatson> the main thing I wanted to bring up was intrepid merges
<cjwatson> those on the 8.04.1 team are not expected to be spending time on intrepid as well, so (unless they're feeling keen beyond the call of duty) people will need to take over their merges
<cjwatson> http://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html - I've already agreed with Evan that I'll sort out his since they're mostly d-i
<evand> thanks again for that.
<cjwatson> asac,TheMuso,slangasek: are you guys going to want assistance here, and/or do you have any special comments on particular packages?
 * calc here
 * calc was looking in another window
<slangasek> I expect that assistance will be welcome, 8.04.1 is definitely keeping me occupied at present
<slangasek> no comments on specific packages at the moment
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Well most of my merges are a11y stack related, which I can only partly do atm due to broken packages on the buildds. I've done espeak which was simple. I'd be happy if othes would look into my other merges, mdadm, openssl. I think thats about it for main.
<asac> the amount of merges listed for me looks still handlable for me
<TheMuso> cjwatson: However the a11y merges are very quick and easy, so I'm happy to do them.
<cjwatson> ok
<asac> well ... xorg-server might wanna go back to bryce ;)
<cjwatson> asac: I thought that probably went without saying ;-)
 * ogra doesnt have many merges and could take some if ltsp is done (which will be a bit time cnsuming due to total redesign of the source)
<cjwatson> ogra: perhaps you could take mdadm and openssl for Luke then
<ogra> sure
<TheMuso> ogra: re mdadm, I had a glance last night, and it has a gcc 4.3 issue that needs solving, preferably upstream first I suspect.
<ogra> oki
<cjwatson> Steve has a good pile of merges of completely unimportant packages like coreutils
<cjwatson> oh, it just occurred to me that not everyone has done this before
<cjwatson> (maybe)
<cjwatson> briefly, obviously we have to merge from Debian each cycle, and we assign this task to people by default on a who-touched-it-last basis, hence merges.ubuntu.com. However, the regular protocol is that if you want to do a merge you talk to whoever's listed on that page and ask (for synchronisation purposes), and anyone may choose to hand off a merge to any other developer if they choose
<doko> hmm, still having some hardy stuff as well, so it may be difficult to take additional ones. trying ...
<cjwatson> doko: (what's on your hardy list?)
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Since my hands only seem to be full with sound for .1 atm, as I said in my report, I'm looking at dmraid bits, so that there is material for discussion at UDS. After that, I will focus on .1 moreso.
<doko> working gcc-3.*-doc fixes, python, python-central, bash, openjdk, sun-java*
<cjwatson> traditionally doko ends up touched-it-last for the entire archive due to having uploaded lots of things for toolchain changes
<cjwatson> TheMuso: ok, up to Steve to keep you busy there
<asac> TheMuso: what is the likelyhood that we can find something for the infamous bug 192888 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 192888 in pulseaudio "firefox crashes on flash contents when using libflashsupport" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192888
<TheMuso> asac: Daniel and I are playing with using dmix with pulseaudio, however for some weird reason, this affects pulseaudio's esd compatibility code, relating to sample caching and playback.
<TheMuso> asac: Nothign more at this stage.
<ogra> asac, not nspluginwrapper ? i thought i saw a discussion with crimsun to change it
<asac> ok ... yes, nspluginwrapper on i386 is certainly an option. not sure if its suitable for 8.04.1
<asac> but if nothing else works we should consider this
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> even though its very intrusive from a package change view i think its the sanest option
<cjwatson> I like the idea of nspluginwrapper, though it's kind of untried on i386 (at least in our context) isn't it?
<asac> cjwatson: fedora does it ... untested for us
<ogra> fedora defaults to it, but indeed it wasnt much tested for us
<asac> we can switch that soonish in intrepid and learn from experience
<ogra> snap
<cjwatson> yeah, hence the parenthesis
<cjwatson> unfortunately I don't think we'll get a lot of user testing on intrepid right now
<TheMuso> Any instructions anywhere on how to do it manually, so I can test locally?
<cjwatson> anyway, merge state was my only agenda item; any other business (after flash)?
<asac> TheMuso: well ... you have to build nspluginwrapper on i386 ... once thats done you just need to enable the postinst snipped in flashplugin-nonfree for i386 too
<asac> we can take a look at this later today
<asac> (if you are still available?)
<TheMuso> asac: Ok, I'll probably be off for the evening in a while, but will look tomorrow morning.
<cjwatson> flashplugin-nonfree just tests whether /usr/bin/nspluginwrapper exists
<TheMuso> Right.
<cjwatson> although you probably need to cause it to be reconfigured
<asac> oh right. then you just need to build it :)
<ogra> well, what about all the other plugins ?
<asac> ogra: the other plugins don't crash that much
<ogra> no, but do they clash ?
<asac> well ... some do. but its managable. but we can give it a try; certainly nothing for hardy updates
<ogra> if npluginwrapper is loaded it might hog something the others need ...
<ogra> *ns
<asac> personally, i would prefer to only use nspluginwrapper to shield ffox from nonfree plugins that we cannot fix. but that might just be me.
<asac> ogra: does fedora use it for everything?
<ogra> afaik yes
<ogra> i can ask warren later tonight if US eastcoast is up
<asac> ogra: yes, that would be great.
<TheMuso> Hrm interesting. Nspluginwrapper is only being built for amd64.
<asac> TheMuso: yes. thats what i ment :)
<TheMuso> asac: Right, I thought you meant it was available for i386 and amd64, but flashplugin-nonfree only uses it on amd64.
<ogra> is it used for everything in amd64 for us ?
<asac> ogra: no only to bridge 64-bit world to 32-bit => nonfree only
<cjwatson> historically it was a 64->32-bit shim - it's only more recently that it was mooted as a way to protect firefox from runaway plugins as well, AIUI
<ogra> ah
<asac> note that nspluginwrapper only supports basic npp plugins; e.g. no totem (xpcom), no java
<doko> and it doesn't work for the javaplugin
<cjwatson> ok, doesn't sound like there's any other business other than nspluginwrapper/flash/hardy
<cjwatson> going once
<cjwatson> going twice
<cjwatson> adjourned; thanks all
<asac> thanks
<evand> thanks
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<ogra> thanks
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<cjwatson> rest -> #ubuntu-devel
<slangasek> thanks!
<calc> thanks!
<james_w> thanks all
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 May 12:00 UTC: Bugs for Hugs Day | 07 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 08 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team
 * Hobbsee reads the CC log, with interest.
<Hobbsee> glad to see it's relatively balanced, although misses some fairly important points (like that apologies for certain comments have been made)
<Hobbsee> Daviey: the reason she doesn't get unbanned, after saying that she won't spam anymore, is that she consistently says that she's not spamming, when, by all other accounts, she is.
<Hobbsee> while she continues to apparently not understand what spamming is, we have no confidence in her assurances that she'll actually stop.
<Daviey> "by all other accounts" - and yet these weren't provided last night
<Hobbsee> well, it was at 7am local time, and i had late night work.
<Hobbsee> im' not sure why the entire wiki documentation wasn't provided.
<Hobbsee> OTOH, it was not asking the CC to deal with emma herself, so that's probably why.
<Daviey> meh
<\sh> Hobbsee, the whole discussion is so "childish"
<Hobbsee> \sh: i know.  I would have expected resolution on a freenode level, as this has been happening in multiple namespaces, far prior to this.
<Hobbsee> \sh: as it is, there actually is no resolution, beyond enforcing channel bans, because the users can always appeal to the CC.  *shrug*.
<Hobbsee> \sh: resolution on how to make the op team work better is, of course, useful.
<Hobbsee> \sh: short of the CC deciding, and sabdfl deciding, there is actually no, final, no-more-appeals resolution :(
<Hobbsee> which leads to childishness.
<\sh> Hobbsee, it looks like that we are running into a dead end with all those rules ... we had the 10 commandments spread by moses directly from the hand of the almighty...and now we produced hundreds of thousands rules around them and pushing more stupidity towards others...oh well
<Hobbsee> \sh: i know.  there's actually some progress on making -offtopic more subjective, and not being a list of rules of !o4o.  self-moderating, if you will.
<emma>  \sh -- I agree with you that it is childish and I hope that as a result of this meeting there will be less childish behavior. I do not appreciate finding my name highlighted in here after the meeting is over, by someone who has been one of the greatest sources of all the antagonism referenced in the meeting itself.
<Hobbsee> (and apologies for not making what was expected to be a 6am local time meeting, and so hearby responding now.  sigh)
 * Hobbsee assumes emma will display proof, too.
<Daviey> so, keep pushing in hope you do?
<Hobbsee> nah.  i have little time for this - that's only why i read the backscroll, and made a fwe comments after that.
 * Hobbsee can ignore her in most places.
<Daviey> *sigh*
<\sh> emma, actually it has nothing to do with you...I'm referencing to general issues...
<emma>  \sh yes, understood. You are not the one who hightlighted me. But the fact we can all tell that you were talking about general issues, and nevertheless the the opportunity was seized by someone to mention me, is very telling.
 * Hobbsee blinks.
<Hobbsee> "Thou shalt not discuss anything in the meeting, if it highlights emma"
<Hobbsee> right then.
 * Hobbsee dumps emma on /ignore
<Hobbsee> more to the point, *more* ignore.
<Daviey> Hobbsee: why can't you just stop it?
<pochu> @schedule
<ubottu> pochu: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 07 May 12:00: Bugs for Hugs Day | 07 May 21:00: Server Team | 08 May 13:00: Desktop Team | 09 May 04:00: MOTU | 14 May 06:00: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00: Server Team
<bimberi> pochu: Thankyou for the python packaging session at UOW.  I've been reading through it - filling the gaping holes in my knowledge :)
<pochu> bimberi: I'm glad it was useful!
<bimberi> pochu: Very.  Plus someone's turned it into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python
<pochu> yeah I know, he asked me where to put the tutorial and I told him that was a nice place ;)
<bimberi> :)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 08 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<pedro_> hello
<heno> Hi pedro_
<pedro_> hey heno, cgregan
<cgregan> Hello!
<heno> bdmurray, ogasawara: ping?
<ogasawara> oops, I'm here
<james_w> hi all. Is there an agenda for the meeting?
<heno> james_w: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<james_w> thanks
<bdmurray> me too
<heno> #startmeeting
<heno> ... :( no bot
<james_w> I have something small to mention related to last week's meeting if you would give me a minute or two at the end.
<heno> As stated the agenda is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> james_w: sure
<heno> topic: UDS topics - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/UdsPrague
<heno> There are still a few open slots in the schedule
<heno> so please suggest topics
<heno> (esp. if you will be present)
<ogasawara> heno:  can we just add suggestions to the wiki and you'll work out the scheduling?
 * stgraber waves
<heno> I'll add a session about coherence in the use of LP as dholbach suggested
<heno> hey stgraber
<heno> ogasawara: it helps if you email me a reminder too
<ogasawara> heno: ok will do, thanks.
<heno> we can also schedule topics quite informally for FOSSCamp
<stgraber> QA Tracker / QA Portal and Ubuntu Brainstorm stuff will have to be done at FOSSCamp
<stgraber> also the Ubuntu package website stuff mvo asked for
<heno> indeed. in fact we should split up that list in two parts
<heno> mvo: will you be at FOSSCamp?
<stgraber> he'll
<heno> ok, thanks :)
<heno> next
<stgraber> jcastro sent the full list of attendees yesterday
<heno> Mobile testing - the UME team could use some help with testing.
<heno> I've sent an appeal to planet http://blog.omma.net/?p=8
<pedro_> I've just added one topic
<mvo> I played with the mobile stuff a bit and a big problem seems to be that test images are hard to find (and/or not available)
<heno> pedro_: great, thanks
 * mvo will be at fosscamp
<cgregan> The ones we are worried about are here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/hardy/menlow/
<heno> mvo: are these no good http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/hardy/menlow ?
<heno> It's linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEinstall but could perhaps be more prominent?
<cgregan> I could also link from Project Page in LP?
<mvo> will that work on any hardware ? I heard (maybe wrong) that it requires recent intel chiptsets
<cgregan> Unless you have a Samsung Q1 you will need to use Xephyr
 * mvo nods
<cgregan> The steps are in the wiki
<mvo> I wonder if it would be possible to produce images that can be booted into via e.g. kvm and that are ready made - so that a test would only require a system with kvm and a download.
<mvo> but this is probably out of scope for now (and for this meeting) :)
<cgregan> lool is actually working on that
<heno> It is a good point actually
<mvo> it just crosssed my mind today when I setup a environement to test some hildon stuff
<heno> A direct kvm image is proving tricky but what about a barebones ubuntu system + xephyr in full screen mode as a kvm image?
<mvo> yeah, I talked to him about it. I think it would be a great help already to just have a manually build kvm image (with ubuntu-vm-builder) so that people can quickly port stuff to hildon/mobile (or just check what it looks like)
<cgregan> I agree
<jcastro> yes I was just going to say a flag in ubuntu-vm-builder would be great
<mvo> that sounds fine as well
<mvo> (what are the tricky bits with a direct kvm image? sorry I'm a bit ignorant about the finer details)
<cgregan> We want to ditch Xephyr as soon as possible since you run as root
<mvo> lpia support was added to it (u-m-b) by lool and is in bzr already
<heno> but root in a dedicated vm is not so bad (as a short term testing alternative anyway)
<cgregan> heno: I agree, but since you need MIC to manage the images anyway and Xephyr is built in..we did not create a VM with Xephyr
<cgregan> It is possible though
<mvo> could we plug a additional backend to the m-i-c so that it produces kvm images as a additional "device" ?
<heno> (MIC = Moblin Image Creator, btw)
<cgregan> mvo: I think that is what lool is working on...a script that can be run to kvm-ize a UME build
<cgregan> We also want to ditch MIC as soon as we can too...so very little is being integrated or changed there
<cgregan> heno: thanks..forgot not all have heard of this thing! :-)
<heno> I'll have a go a creating a bastardised Xephyr based VM image
<heno> ok, next
<heno> The next meeting would normally be next Wednesday
<heno> but several of us will be travelling
<heno> can we move it to Tuesday same time?
<heno> or 16.00 UTC even?
<pedro_> 1900 UTC right?
<pedro_> both are ok for me
<heno> either works for me
<stgraber> date and time work for me
<heno> slight preference for 16.00 perhaps
<ogasawara> I'd prefer 16.00 if possible
<bdmurray> 1600 is fine here
<stgraber> ok, so Tuesday 16:00 ?
<pedro_> let's go for it then ;-)
<heno> great!
<cgregan> heno: we would run over our talk, but otherwise is ok
<heno> I'll mail the list about the change
<pedro_> ok I'm updating the wiki page now
<heno> cgregan: we can perhaps move that
<cgregan> Sure...anytime after 1600 is good
<heno> I'm actually not really at work on Tuesday anyway
<heno> james_w: can we have your topic?
<james_w> sure, it's a quick one.
<james_w> I saw at the last meeting you were outlining some new QA Team Roles.
<james_w> I mentioned these to someone, and she pointed out that the forums feedback coordinator role had a lot of overlap with the mission of the forum ambassadors
<james_w> she said the later project is not that active currently, but it may be somewhere to find interested people.
<heno> james_w: indeed. I think the ambassadors project could benefit from well-focused missions like this one
<heno> I think one reason it didn't take root was that it was too broad
<james_w> cool, I just wanted to bring it up. Thanks for your time.
<heno> I'll mention it for a few people I know who are involved in the ambassadors project
<heno> thanks james_w
<heno> any other topics?
<stgraber> nope
<heno> right, thanks everyone!
<pedro_> thanks
<heno> #endmeeting
<stgraber> thanks
<Pretto> emma, what theme do you use in your ubuntu?
<zul> evening
<nijaba> o/
<sommer> yo
 * owh opens bleary eyes.
<dendrobates> \o
<jdstrand>  \o
<nijaba> <o>
<soren> o/
<nealmcb> o/
<mathiaz> hello guys ! :)
<ivoks> halloo, moelltaler gletschar...
<ivoks> :D
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<nealmcb> I'd say the right hands win.  or are those left hands?
<soren> Mine's a stick.
<mathiaz> Let's get started now that ubottu updated the topic
<mathiaz> today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<nealmcb> mootbot isn't back up yet
<jdstrand> that's my right hand-- I'm facing you
<mathiaz> nealmcb: nope - we'll have to live without him for a while :(
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<mathiaz> Previous meeting logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080430
<mathiaz> There was no action :D
<ivoks> :)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Virtualization Meta Packages
<owh> mathiaz: I recall an action you had, but I cannot recall what it was.
<mathiaz> kirkland: what's your brand new ideea ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: so...
<kirkland> mathiaz: basically create a meta package that requires the virtualization packages necessary to get up an Ubuntu virt-host into a useful state
<kirkland> mathiaz: we have a handful of documentation right now that details the steps to do so
<nealmcb> no gui?
<kirkland> mathiaz: but in the grand spirit of Ubuntu making difficult Linuxy things easier, this meta package helps things along
<soren> And no ponies, either.
<kirkland> I have test packages available in my PPA
<kirkland> right now, we're debating the most appropriate name of it
<kirkland> right now, there are ubuntu-virt and ubuntu-virt-extras
<mathiaz> kirkland: is virt-manager included ?
<kirkland> ubuntu-virt being just stuff in main, ubuntu-virt-extras += universe packages
<kirkland> mathiaz: yes, ubuntu-virt right now is (virt-manager, kvm, libvirtd)
<kirkland> -extras adds stuff like virt-viewer
<kirkland> qemu, etc.
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'm thinking about a server that one would like to turn into a virtualization host
<kirkland> so i'm polling the server team here for two things
<kirkland> a) confirmation/information on what packages should be included
<kirkland> b) the most applicable name
<mathiaz> kirkland: virt-manager requires a desktop IIUC
<kirkland> dendrobates suggested ubuntu-virt-host and ubuntu-virt-host-extras, and I tend to prefer those,  but soren and jdstrand like the shorter names
<zul> mathiaz: i thought it didnt
<kirkland> mathiaz: i think it pulls some X libraries, yes, but not the whole desktop
<jdstrand> 'host' doesn't mean anything to me *shrug*
<nealmcb> ubuntu-virt-dev for the gui stuff?
<kirkland> mathiaz: I *think* you can ssh -X and run virt-manager
<nealmcb> probably not....
<nealmcb> ubuntu-virt-build?
<mathiaz> kirkland: well - virt-manager support qemu+ssh
<nealmcb> but requires x11 libraries?
<kirkland> to me the key is the ability to create/delete/manage/host virtual machines
<mathiaz> kirkland: that's how I run it here - I have a server that only has kvm and libvirt
<nijaba> kirkland: I think we would need an ubuntu-virt-client, another ubuntu-virt-server
 * nealmcb would prefer offhand that ubuntu-virt just be what you need to run stuff, and have gui stuff on top of that
<mathiaz> kirkland: and then use virt-manager on my laptop to manage the vms
<kirkland> one package for the bare minimum to do that.  a second package with add-on niceties
<nealmcb> client! yeah
<owh> Why are we referring to it as "virt", as in ubuntu-virt, rather than ubuntu-vm?
<mathiaz> kirkland: would it make sense to have a -gui package to pull in the gui part ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: yes, perhaps
<nijaba> owh: vm= virtual machine, not virtualization server
<nijaba> mathiaz: that's what I meant with ubuntu-virt-client
<owh> nijaba: I realise that, but the thing makes virtual machines does it not?
<owh> nijaba: Originally the script was ubuntu-jeos-builder.
<kirkland> mathiaz: i find the most useful combination to me (kvm, libvirt-bin, virt-manager) ...  what would you call that?
<mathiaz> owh: we're talking about kvm and libvirt
<kirkland> note that i mainly use that on my desktop machines
<mathiaz> owh: not ubuntu-vm-builder
<jdstrand> kirkland: -virt ;)
<nealmcb> perhaps -gui would be better for the gui stuff, and -client can be used if necessary for cli/api client stuff
<nijaba> owh: ubutu-vm-builder and virt-install do, yes (as well as part of virt-manager
<jdstrand> there aren't that many packages
<mathiaz> kirkland: in my own use case, I'm only using kvm+libvirt-bin on my server
<nijaba> kirkland: same as mathiaz here
<nijaba> kirkland: and all DC client will do the same
<nijaba> kirkland: remeber, no GUI on server by default
<mathiaz> kirkland: so I'd have ubuntu-virt for kvm+libvirt, which is what is needed to turn a server into a system that can provide vms
<kirkland> nijaba: i understand
<mathiaz> kirkland: and then ubuntu-virt-gui or -client to manage the vms
<jdstrand> what about moving virt-manager to -extras?
<kirkland> mathiaz: hmm, i think that's just virt-manager though
<soren> ubuntu-virt-node vs. ubuntu-virt-management?
<mathiaz> kirkland: yes - maybe that's enough then
<nijaba> soren: not bad
<kirkland> soren: define ^
<soren> Or mgmt for short.
<soren> -node is kvm + libvirt-bin.
<soren> +ssh.
<jdstrand> 'node' is unclear-- node has a singular connotation to me
<soren> -mgmt is libvirt-bin (to get virsh) and virt-manager.
<jdstrand> whereas a server could have a gajillion vms
<dendrobates> I think it important that the name clearly represent what it is.  I think the -host or -server helps that.
<kirkland> jdstrand: soren: okay, i like this, but i agree that -node is ambiguous
<kirkland> i'd suggest -host or -server
<soren> Really?
<soren> I have one virtualisation node on which I run 27 vm's.
<soren> That makes sense in my book. I'm not insistant on it, though. At all.
<kirkland> :-)  I'd say you have one "virtualisation SERVER  on which you run 27 vm's"
<soren> It's never struck me as ambiguous.
<dendrobates> hmm node? it sounds a bit jargony.
<nijaba> so ubuntu-virt-server and ubuntu-virt-mgmt?
<kirkland> okay, votes between ubuntu-virt-server and ubuntu-virt-host where either = (kvm, libvirt-bin, openssh-server) ?
<soren> Maybe I'm infected with the clustering terminology.
<nealmcb> of course a vm can be a whole network with servers and networks....
<owh> +1 ubuntu-virt-host
<mathiaz> kirkland: ubuntu-virt-host +!
<mathiaz> kirkland: ubuntu-virt-host +1
<owh> mathiaz: The first vote doesn't count, but is it a dimple?
<kirkland> okay, and the other is ubuntu-virt-mgmt ?
<soren> -server +1
<nijaba> kirkland: ubuntu-virt-server +1
<sommer> ubuntu-virt-server +1
<jdstrand> -mgmt +1
<nealmcb> -host +1
<ivoks> a tie :)
<dendrobates> -server +1
<ivoks> -server +1
<soren> I'm not sure where ubuntu-vm-builder fits in, though.
<sommer> ubuntu-virt-creator ? :)
 * owh is also unsure.
<kirkland> soren: i was going to put that in -extras
<jdstrand> does this mean no -extras for universe stuff?
<soren> kirkland: Ah, good. :)
<jdstrand> ok
<nealmcb> hosting runs things, servers serve things (like download your vms from my server...)
<nealmcb> but it is all hopelessly ambiguous :-)
 * owh changes vote from host to server
<soren> I'm hosting server vm's on my cluster nodes.
<soren> It's great.
<jdstrand> unless you're like me, and have your vms on the local machine
<kirkland> +1 from me for ubuntu-virt-server
<kirkland> another poll now, ubuntu-virt-mgmt vs ubuntu-virt-extras ?
<mathiaz> Ok - so it seems ubuntu-virt-server is the prefered choice
<ivoks> we have -server for everything else
<ivoks> people will understand
<nijaba> I think it wold be neet to have a ubuntu-virt-full that is -server + -mgmt for the desktop guys
<ivoks> bringing in -host, which is uniq is... 'what's that all about?'
<mathiaz> kirkland: -mgmt +!
 * nealmcb goes with the flow
<owh> -extras +1 (to stay consistent with the other names)
<nijaba> kirkland: what is in -extra?
<nealmcb> nijaba: how about -desktop?  full seems more ambiguous
<kirkland> nijaba: virt-manager, ubuntu-vm-builder, qemu, virt-viewer, kqemu (perhaps) ... other goodness in universe
 * nealmcb is cautious about too much stuff in -extras
<nijaba> kirkland: isn't that what -mgmt is supposed to be?
<owh> nealmcb: That has too many connotations with ubuntu-desktop.
<nijaba> and u-v-b should be in -server (or not, since not in main)
<jdstrand> how is qemu 'mgmt'?
<kirkland> nijaba: i was suggesting either -mgmt or -extras ...  perhaps we should split that into 3?
<ivoks> jdstrand: how about kqemu? :)
<nijaba> and qemu should be both in -server and mgmt
<jdstrand> ivoks: exactly
<nealmcb> nijaba: I'd think u-v-builder would be part of the management stuff offhand
<kirkland> nijaba: qemu is universe
<jdstrand> nijaba: that puts -server in universe then
<kirkland> nijaba: kvm includes a subset of qemu code (enough)
<nijaba> jdstrand: right
 * nijaba hides
<jdstrand> heh
<ivoks> -addons
<kirkland> okay, so then we'll have a total of 3 meta packages built from the same source.....
<owh> ivoks: They're hardly addons, they're needed to get started :)
<kirkland> ubuntu-virt-server, ubuntu-virt-mgmt, ubuntu-virt-extras
<mathiaz> kirkland: works for me
<mathiaz> Let's move on
<kirkland> with ubuntu-virt-server being server-only, non-gui, packages for hosting vm's
<kirkland> and in main
<jdstrand> kirkland: I like the idea, but -mgmt seems to then only contain virt-manager...
<mathiaz> kirkland: could you upload these meta-package to your PPA and then ask for feedback on the ubuntu-server ml  ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: you bet.
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'll build against Hardy (since most people still running that) and Intrepid too
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok.
<mathiaz> kirkland: but the meta-package won't make it hardy
<kirkland> mathiaz: i understand this
<mathiaz> kirkland: great
<mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to upload new meta-package for ubuntu virtualization things and ask for feedback on ubuntu-server@l.u.c
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Merges
<mathiaz> As you may have noticed, intrepid is open for business
<soren> Wooh!
<ivoks> what's that? :)
<soren> :)
<ivoks> a joke, a joke...
<mathiaz> There is a huge stack of packages from debian waiting to be merged
<mathiaz> I'd add that this is probably the best time to get started in packaging
<soren> "merged" means that in hardy, we took the package from Debian and changed it somehow, and now Debian has a new version and we need to merge the two change sets.
<mathiaz> I'd like to know if any has a list of easy merges
<mathiaz> /any/anyone/
<soren> *cough* dpkg *cough*
<soren> :)
<owh> mathiaz: Microsoft and Yahoo?
<zul> *cough* mysql *cough*
<ivoks> i'm sure bacula won't be the easy one... :/
<mathiaz> so that we can hand them to people that want to start packaging.
<zul> ivoks: already done :)
<ivoks> :]
<soren> Wow.. I hardly have any left. :(
<soren> Maybe only like 20 or so.
<soren> Well, the basic rule is:
<kirkland> owh: LoL  :-)
<soren> Look at either: http://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html or http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html and find things that look interesting.
<soren> ..and poke the person named there.
<soren> ask them if they're working on it already.
<soren> If not, dig in :)
<mathiaz> soren: it's sugested to contact the last uploader before doing a merge - wouldn't the laste merger make more sense ?
<sommer> cool
<soren> mathiaz: It's hard to say anything in general about it.
<soren> mathiaz: The last uploader will usually know who to talk to.
<soren> ..so that's probably fine.
<mathiaz> soren: well - or look into the changelog
<mathiaz> soren: to figure out what the last uploader did
<owh> Is there any documentation to actually do the merge, that is, something to help new people get started?
<zul> owh: check the wiki
<nealmcb> owh: and the recent open week logs
<soren> owh: The packaging guide is a good starting point, I believe.
<mathiaz> owh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<owh> Tah
<mathiaz> owh: and the last openweek sessions - there were a couple of sessions related to Merging.
 * owh adds that to the ToDo list which is threatening to avalanche off the desk.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] SRU for hardy
<mathiaz> zul: how are we doing on this front ?
<_ZeuZ_> Sorry to interrupt, just wanted to join and see what's going on... Hope you guys don't mind
<nealmcb> _ZeuZ_: welcome
<zul> mathiaz: pretty good been slowly going through my list
<owh> _ZeuZ_: The meeting is open to all comers, welcome.
<zul> added a couple more today as well
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/StableReleaseTracker
<zul> people are welcome to add to the list as well :)
<mathiaz> is the place where SRU are tracked
<_ZeuZ_> Lovely, will do my best... I come from  Debian desktop enviroment seeking for easier network administration... Well, actually, easier traffic contorl and bandwidth managment and prioritizing... Hope I can help in something
<mathiaz> anyone that comes across a bug worth fixing in hardy should ping zul about it
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] UDS topic and preparation
<zul> or if Im idling zulcss@ubuntu.com
<mathiaz> As I said last week, we're preparing for UDS
<ivoks> mathiaz: sorry to interrupt
<ivoks> mathiaz: what about bugs in dapper?
<ivoks> dapper is still supported and should get our attention also
<mathiaz> ivoks: we're still looking into them
<mathiaz> ivoks: aggreed. But now we have two LTS to look after
<ivoks> right
<mathiaz> ivoks: we plan to 8.04.1 in July
<Nafallo> only LTSes? or just priority?
<mathiaz> ivoks: so we focus on hardy until then
 * kirkland guesses we'll see more -server users come the first hardy dot-release
<mathiaz> ivoks: of course it doesn't mean we drop dapper - if bugs pop up we should aim at fixing them.
<ivoks> mathiaz: ok, i do understand, i'll fight for some bugs in dapper :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: great - we're still issuing SRU for dapper, feisty and gutsy.
<mathiaz> ivoks: any contribution is of course accepted
<ivoks> sorry for distraction, please continue with topic...
<mathiaz> (a new cyrus-sasl2 package has been uploaded to dapper-proposed)
<mathiaz> to go back to UDS topics and preparation
<mathiaz> dendrobates: how are things going ?
<dendrobates> mathiaz: good, the schedule is nearly final.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: where/when will the schedule be published ?
<dendrobates> mathiaz: I am not sure.  All the track leads need to be done first.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: right - is a topic list available ?
<mathiaz> dendrobates: UDS is in one and half week - people should start preparing the subjects
<dendrobates> mathiaz: not yet.  But soon.  I'll announce it in #ubuntu-server.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: ok - thanks.
<mathiaz> Anyone has questions about UDS ?
<_ZeuZ_> yes, a noob question here...
<nijaba> who's coming?
<_ZeuZ_> what is UDS?
<soren> Is it going to be fun?
<_ZeuZ_> I dunno, was it?
<ivoks> nijaba: o/
<sommer> o//
<nijaba> _ZeuZ_: Ubuntu Developper Summit
<_ZeuZ_> oh...
<owh> soren: Only if you bring your 27 virtual machines...
<zul> is there going to be beer?
<_ZeuZ_> Gotcha
<mathiaz> _ZeuZ_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid?highlight=%28UDS%29
<ivoks> zul: in prague... lots of cheap beer
<soren> owh: Aw.. :(
<owh> soren: Ok, perhaps it will be fun if you turn up :)
<mathiaz> ok - that's all I had for this week
<owh> Are we onto other items yet?
<soren> \o/
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any other business
<ivoks> yeah
 * owh would like to know about vmware-server in hardy. Do we have a time-line yet?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'd like to thank those that tested my Documentation Search ....  newz2000 is using it for the basis of a revamped search.ubuntu.com
 * ivoks would like to start bigger disscusion with kernel team
<ivoks> we need to coordinate better
 * nealmcb still wishes we could see proposed blueprints -  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/blueprint/+bug/66093
<owh> kirkland: I use it regularly :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 66093 in blueprint "Meeting specifications page omits whether they have been accepted" [Medium,Confirmed]
<kirkland> owh: ;-)
<_ZeuZ_> is there any GUI for TCNG or Iptables bundled with Ubuntu Server? It would make it be even more used for newcomers,ISPs(news and old ones wanting to migrate)  and such...
<nealmcb> o/ at uds
<mathiaz> ivoks: how come ? why not talk directly to them ?
<mathiaz> ivoks: in which area should we cooperate ?
<kirkland> _ZeuZ_: perhaps a better topic for #ubuntu-server ...  as soon as this meeting is over, most of us will migrate our attention back over there
<ivoks> mathiaz: there are bugs which impact servers, but are kernel bugs
<_ZeuZ_> Oh, lovely... sorry...
<mathiaz> ivoks: and they don't get the required attention ?
<ivoks> mathiaz: right
<_ZeuZ_> Just thought it would help for ubuntu's supremacy in this territory... Red Hat allready has one... I got the ISOs and burned them to test, we can't fall under red hats feets on what to servers come
<ivoks> mathiaz: or no one notices them
<mathiaz> ivoks: hm.. seems like we need to make more noise then
<ivoks> mathiaz: i just wante to point out that we need to talk with them more often :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: do you have a list of the bug numbers ?
<ivoks> mathiaz: no, but i did encounter 2-3 in last 7 days :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: we can talk with ogasawara  - she's the kernel bug triagger
 * owh wonders if the vmware-server question was noticed.
<mathiaz> I'm sure nijaba has an answer :D
<ivoks> mathiaz: i'm not really sure what to do, but i have a feeling we aren't doing enough
<nijaba> mathiaz: I'd love to have one, sincerely
<ivoks> mathiaz: as soon as i figure out what's wrong, i'll be first to op to fix it
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - the right person to talk about that is ogasawara
<ivoks> :D
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
<mathiaz> Agree on next meeting date and time.
<_ZeuZ_> a kernel bug? Hmmm... I'm pretty noob at that, but, shouldnt that be caused for a patch on the ubuntu's flavor of linus kernel?
<nijaba> we have a meeting with vmware next week, so may have more info then
 * kirkland will be enroute to Prague this time next week
<owh> nijaba: Tah.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<ivoks> kirkland: me too
<mathiaz> same place, same time ?
<owh> I'll be in sunny Perth waiting for the sun to rise :)
<kirkland> mathiaz: perhaps meet a day earlier next time?  or a day later, from Prague?
<nealmcb> I"ll be wandering around prague...
<nealmcb> starting tuesday
<sommer> just wanted to point out this link for uds attendees: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Prague/Attendees
<mathiaz> most of us will be in Prague on Thursday
<mathiaz> or travelling to Prague on Thursday
<ivoks> sommer: i tought we use lp for that
<mathiaz> and some of us will also be travelling to Prague on Wednesday
<sommer> ivoks: ah, I just noticed it on planet ubuntu this morning in someones blog
<ivoks> sommer: ups... nice wiki
<mathiaz> Anyway - I guess not a lot of people will show up for next week's meeting
<nealmcb> save our energy for the coming week....
<owh> mathiaz: Any point in skipping a week?
<sommer> ivoks: thought it'd work good for shared cabs and such :)
<mathiaz> I'll be available as I'll already be in Europe then - and be travelling to Prague on Thursday
<kirkland> someone should seed that wiki page with the attendees from https://edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-intrepid
<ivoks> sommer: yeah... it's 00:00 over here, so i have late start and didn't notice taxi, flights etc...
<mathiaz> owh: it seems most of us won't be available
<owh> mathiaz: Sorry, I meant it as, "Let's skip next week..."
<mathiaz> north american will probably be flying over the atlantic then
<mathiaz> owh: we'd also skip in two week, when most of use will be at UDS
<sommer> mathiaz: +1 :)
<nealmcb> that should be a sub page of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid
<owh> mathiaz: You mean, I can sleep in ?
<owh> excellent!
<mathiaz> owh: hehe
<mathiaz> so let's say we skip the next two meetings ?
<sommer> owh: nope, I don't think anyone said that :)
<owh> I'm happy either way mathiaz. If there's a meeting, I'll be there.
<owh> Do we know where UDS intrepid + 1 will be?
<mathiaz> owh: somewhere in North America
<mathiaz> owh: probably on the West Coast (according to the location of the previous UDS)
<owh> mathiaz: Ah, so it alternates between USA and Europe then?
<mathiaz> owh: yeah - this is how it was done in the past
<jjesse> @schedule detroit
<ubottu> jjesse: Schedule for America/Detroit: Current meeting: Server Team | 08 May 09:00: Desktop Team | 09 May 00:00: MOTU | 14 May 02:00: Platform Team | 14 May 17:00: Server Team
<owh> mathiaz: If that's the case, then I might be at a UDS in a year from now :)
<mathiaz> alright - so we haven't decided if we meet next week
<owh> So, was it agreed that we skip the next two meetings?
<nealmcb> owh: full list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperSummit
<jjesse> sorry for joing late
<mathiaz> who's is in favour of having a meeting next week ?
<owh> +1
<owh> -1
<owh> Doesn't matter :)
<owh> Well it does, but I'll be here if there is one :)
 * mathiaz wonders if owh and him are the only one around
<ivoks> nope
<sommer> owh: just make sure to wake up either way
<jjesse> i', around not that it matters
<jjesse> on a confrence call :)
<owh> sommer: Only if you come and tuck me in the night before :)
<sommer> heh, more fun when people wake up grumpy :)
 * kirkland pats mathiaz on the back
 * owh hasn't had a surrogate mother for years:)
 * owh thanks mathiaz for all the hard work and suggests we take a fortnight's leave.
<mathiaz> Alright - so no meeting next week - we'll meet in three weeks again - May 28th
 * nealmcb thinks we already have, in effect :-)
 * kirkland waves
<mathiaz> thanks all for attending
<sommer> thanks mathiaz
 * ivoks drops ons bed
<owh> Later all, I'm off to brekkie.
<mathiaz> and see ya in Prague for those of you that will be there :)
<owh> ivoks: ons?
<ivoks> owh: on
<owh> ivoks: You need more sleep ;-)
<sommer> later all, have a good one
<ivoks> owh: it's late... i baerly keep my eyes open
<nijaba> thanks for hosting mathiaz
<owh> ivoks: Go to bed. You're eyelids are getting heavy.
<ivoks> mathiaz rulez
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-08
<pitti> hello everyone
<Hobbsee> pitti!
<mvo> hey pitti
<Riddell> hi
<pedro_> hello
<pitti> hm, I can't find Ted online, is he on vac?
<MacSlow> hi
<MacSlow> hi seb128
<MacSlow> hi mvo
<mvo> hey MacSlow
<MacSlow> hi Riddell, Hobbsee
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<seb128> hello
 * Hobbsee waves to MacSlow
<pitti> hm, Ted is not on vac
<kwwii> hi
<MacSlow> hi kwwii
 * pitti phones
<MacSlow> no idea what's with ted
<MacSlow> ah :)
<pitti> ted2: ah, that's *the* Ted?
<ted2> pitti: good morning :)
<pitti> ah :)
<pitti> ted2: welcome
<mvo> hello ted2
<pitti> ted2: it's your evil twin brother!
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-05-08 FYI
<ted2> Yeah, I'm trying to use Empathy to learn it's flaws... it seems that "tedg" and "ted1" are among the flaws :)
<pitti> I didn't see anyone else posting agenda items; did I miss any?
<pitti> did everyone have a chance to review their assigned bugs on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.04.1 ? Any problems with those?
<pitti> we should solve them soon, we won't have any time in Prague, and towards the end of June we want to start building hardy.1 CD candidates
<seb128> doh, that's short
 * MacSlow feels like an idiot working on integrating mipmapping in clutter only to see that yesterday something from elsewhere was pushed upstream
<pitti> seb128: well, we still have about six weeks to hammer at it
<mvo> pitti: when do we get daily CDs again?
<mvo> (for hardy .1)
<MacSlow> so much for wasting time... especially nobody from O-Hand told me they are working internally on it
<pitti> mvo: unsure; do you think they'd be useful already?
<pitti> mvo: I don't think they are hard to set up, need to talk to Colin
<mvo> for me at least yes
<pitti> ACTION: pitti to set up daily hardy CDs with Colin
<mvo> I have a SRU open with the cdromupgrade script on the server cd
<Riddell> 18:00 < slangasek> evand: no ETA yet on hardy CD builds
<ted2> MacSlow: That sucks, any clue on why?  Seems like something they'd be against also.
<pitti> mvo: right, we also have some installer fixes
<pitti> MacSlow: who's O-Hand?
<mvo> thanks pitti
<MacSlow> ted2, no idea... especially since I blogged about it and chatted a bit with Matthew Allum (Opened Hand boss) about the API
<MacSlow> pitti, that's "Opened Hand" the upstream of clutter
<pitti> ah, ok
<ted2> They also do "dates" and a couple other embedded (sorry mobile) things.
<Hobbsee> pitti: enomootbot?
<pitti> Hobbsee: don't worry, just convention; I'll trawl through the log anyway afterwards
<Hobbsee> pitti: ahhh
<ted2> MacSlow: So I guess at o-hand the right hand doesn't talk to the left? :)
<MacSlow> ted2, while the pure GL-side of things was easy for me making a patch out of this against clutter wasn't that easy... spent several days on this... then cogl (internal OpenGL-abstraction of clutter changed) had to move stuff over...
<mvo> how do you feel about upgrade failures (maintainer scripts) in universe packages? I would like to still milestone those on the grounds that even they are universe they may break upgrades and give a bad user experience - how is your feeling about this?
<MacSlow> ted2, no clue... but I feel misable trying to work upstream (thus neglecting direct work on the face-browser) just to see that I wasted about two weeks for nothing
<pitti> mvo: yeah, that makes sense
<pitti> mvo: I recently watched a friend doing a dist-upgrade which was completely wrecked due to python-numpy failing to install
<ted2> MacSlow: Yeah, for sure.  Are there going to be any o-hand folks at FOSSCamp/UDS?
<pitti> mvo: btw, on that occasion u-m immediately crashed/aborted, so that the system was left in a 80% upgraded state
<MacSlow> ted2, yes... Matthew will be there... I will bring that up when talking with thim
<pitti> mvo: but there was no possibility to finish the upgrade, nor do the cleanup, etc.
<mvo> pitti: was that a server upgrade?
<Hobbsee> mvo: how many are we talking about?
<mvo> pitti: for the desktop it should continue
<pitti> mvo: no, standard ubuntnu desktop
<mvo> Hobbsee: so far not that many
<pitti> mvo: it didn't :/, it just went away after the failure
<mvo> pitti: oh? it skips the cleanup, but it should go on, could you ask him to sent me the logs?
<Hobbsee> mvo: as in, 5, 10, 20, 50?  And how long do you think i'tll take to find out the rest?
<mvo> pitti: went-away == crashed
<mvo> Hobbsee: in the range of 10-20 I would say
<pitti> MacSlow: argh, that sucks; communication problem? i. e. you didn't know about each other working on the same ting?
<MacSlow> pitti, no... I blogged about that I missed mipmapping in clutter... showed that I had the needed GL-stuff already done and planned to write a patch for clutter
<MacSlow> pitti, I also emailed the clutter-ml regarding how to go about exposing it in the clutter-API
<pitti> mvo: sure, I'll ask him
<MacSlow> pitti, so they cannot have missed that I was working on it
<pitti> mvo: /var/log/<where>?
<pitti> MacSlow: they read your blog?
<mvo> pitti: /var/log/dist-upgrade/* please
<pitti> mvo: TODOed
<mvo> thanks again pitti
<pitti> MacSlow: oh, nevermind, ML
<MacSlow> pitti, well I pointed them to it and it gets  to p.g.o and p.u.c so there's plenty of exposure
<Hobbsee> mvo: so easy enough to hit in one go, if we have a list.  *nod*
<pitti> MacSlow: how do you think can we avoid that in the future? they didn't take you serious enough or so?
<mvo> Hobbsee: some of the failure seem to be a bit icky (haskell for example)
<pitti> mvo: oh, we still need to finish the /etc diff for dapper->hardy, too
<MacSlow> pitti, I'll write Matthew an email and ask him
<pitti> MacSlow: can you talk to them again and ask him how to avoid that in the future?
<pitti> ah, good
<pitti> ok, so I went throug the unassigned hardy.1 milestone list and picked out a few which look like falling into our team
<pitti> shall we just quickly go through them?
<pitti> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/206998
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 206998 in compiz "Screen splited when changing monitor resolution settings " [High,Triaged]
<seb128> sure
<seb128> iz mvo bog ;-)
<pitti> it's not entirely clear whether it's a compiz or an xrandr bug
<seb128> I get the issue too
<mvo> pitti: right, I worked a bit trying to eliminating some of the noise, I will run another one soonish
<pitti> mvo: do you think you can care for coordinating this between the X and compiz upstreams?
<seb128> the cursor can go in the area, clicking work etc
<pitti> mvo: etc diff> me too
<seb128> but compiz consider the vertical line as the viewport limit
<pitti> ah, right, I think I noticed that, too
<seb128> so I would say it's a compiz bug
<mvo> pitti: I can look into it yes
<pitti> thanks
<pitti> bug 213081
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 213081 in linux "CUPS does not print to LPD printer" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213081
<pitti> cupsish, I'll take that one
 * mvo looks at till
<pitti> bug 150187
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 150187 in poppler "[gutsy] [regression] Evince has very bad quality when printing pdf files." [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150187
<seb128> I don't think this one will be fixed easily
<pitti> mvo: I have a much better connection to upstream nowadays, I'll manage :)
<seb128> it seems to be cairo or poppler
<pitti> seb128: right, that seems like a tricky poppler bug, I guess?
<pitti> seb128: is that actually a regression from gutsy?
<seb128> no it's not
<seb128> gutsy had the issue
<seb128> it might be a regression from dapper
<pitti> I mean, the bug in that generality seems weird to me
<seb128> where we were using the splash poppler version and not cairo
<pitti> I print out PDFs very often (well, my wife does), and they look fine
<pitti> so it affects only some?
<seb128> right
<seb128> you can assign it to me
<MacSlow> yeah... I never saw issues with PDFs too
<mvo> they generally look ok for me too (also I don't pint that much)
<seb128> but I don't guaranty it'll be fixed for hardy
<seb128> I'll try to talk with upstream about it
<pitti> seb128: no, I'd just like milestoned bugs to have someone who is looking into it
<seb128> I'm looking at this one
<pitti> seb128: if it ends up being unmilestoned because we can't do anything, that's fine
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: can you assign it to you? thx
<pitti> bug 184238
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 184238 in transmission "Menu entry should be named "Transmission BitTorrent Client" Instead of only the unclear "Transmission"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184238
<pitti> *violently agreeing*
<seb128> pitti: done
<pitti> oh, apparently fixed upstream!
<seb128> pitti: mvo has been assigned to the sponsor request before hardy, not sure why he didn't upload though
<seb128> pitti: I got jdong to submit the debdiff before hardy, it's just waiting for sponsoring
 * seb128 looks at mvo
<mvo> *cough*
<mvo> ...
<pitti> ah
<pitti> mvo: can you take this? or shall I?
<mvo> sure, happy to take it now
<ted2> seb128, pitti: It might also be the printer.  The cairo ouput changed to the point of pushing some printers in the new release.
<mvo> sorry - I must have overlooked it before the release
<seb128> ted2: that's not a new bug, it was already there in gutsy
<pitti> mvo: thanks, assigned now
<seb128> mvo: that's alright, that was a string change so tricky, but now let plenty of time to translators to do a good work
<MacSlow> hi OgMaciel
<pitti> bug 208097
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 208097 in python-aptsources "FTBFS in Hardy due to python-distutils-extra changes" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208097
<pitti> darn, too late to remove the package from hardy final now
<Hobbsee> pitti: even if it doesn't build?
<OgMaciel> hey there MacSlow
<pitti> IMHO we should just remove it from intrepid and ignore hardy; any objection?
<seb128> +1
<pitti> Hobbsee: hardy is frozen, we cannot remove stuff from it
<pitti> ok, I'll deal with it
<Hobbsee> pitti: oh, i thought you could - as in, that there were reasons why it wasn't a good idea, rather than a technical limitation against it
<mvo> +1
<pitti> for reasons like that I like milestoned bugs to have a clear assignee
<pitti> Hobbsee: that's pretty much the case, yes
<pitti> (I believe, anyway -- who knows how soyuz breaks if someone woudl actually attempt it :-P)
<pitti> bug 204770
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 204770 in tracker "[hardy] gdmsetup cause intensive disk activity and take a very long time to open" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204770
<Hobbsee> pitti: on second thoughts, i suspect it's a *very* good idea not to try.
<pitti> seb128: you commented on this, do you have a quick summary?
<pitti> Hobbsee: *chuckle*
<seb128> pitti: gtkfileselector has a search item which uses tracker
<pitti> ooh, that one again
<Hobbsee> pitti: :)
<pitti> right
<seb128> and libtracker api for "is tracker running" autostart this one
<seb128> which is completly broken if you ask me
<pitti> sudo time-admin or other program, and there goes tracker driving you mad?
<seb128> yes, but tracker is disabled in hardy so I'm not sure why that's happening
<seb128> I'll consider dropping the gtk tracker support if the tracker guys don't fix the issue
<pitti> it doesn't just start tracker, but also gvfs daemons, etc., doesn't it?
<pitti> seb128: could we just make the file selector not triggering autostart?
<pitti> so that people coudl still manually enable tracker, but it wouldn't start magically any more?
<seb128> yeah, I was considering that as well
<pitti> not sure whether it's possible
<seb128> well, just stop installing /usr/share/dbus-1/services/tracker.service
<pitti> seb128: the gdm task is bogus, right?
<seb128> easy enough
<seb128> pitti: yes, that's an upstream one
<pitti> seb128: ah, but that's just the trigger, not the actual bug, right?
<seb128> pitti: I think we should just remove the dbus service file, this way tracker is started by the session or the user or not
<seb128> I don't like the "is autostarted when random program check if tracker is running"
<pitti> seb128: that sounds reasonable
<seb128> right
<pitti> seb128: ok, let's discuss this offline
<pitti> do we have someone inclined to bluetooth in the team?
<seb128> ok
<pitti> bug 220269
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 220269 in bluez-utils "bluetooth mouse stopped working after bluez-utils and bluetooth update [hardy]" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220269
<seb128> I would say to ask the mobile team
<pitti> ok, I'll do that
<seb128> or mithrandir
<pitti> mvo: bug 221920 looks like a simple blacklist addition to compiz
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221920 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "Compositing results in garbage on the screen for Intel 82815, shouldn't be turn on by default" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221920
<mvo> pitti: yes
<pitti> seb128: yes, I mean 'ask the mobile team/Tollef'
<pitti> mvo: can I hand that to you?
<mvo> sure
<pitti> bug 211388
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 211388 in ntp "/etc/dhcp3/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/ntpdate not created on dapper->hardy upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211388
<pitti> that sounds pittiish
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> (unless someone jumps at it :) )
<pitti> heh, I reported it
<pitti> fallout from the /etc diff trawling
<pitti> mvo: btw, any chance we could have an updated /etc/ diff for dapper->hardy current?
<pitti> mvo: we fixed some issues in the last weeks
<pitti> bug 209520
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 209520 in nautilus "SMB error: Unable to mount location when server configured with security=share" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/209520
<pitti> argh the suck argh
<pitti> that sounds like gvfs fallout
<mvo> pitti: yes, I worked on the code to remove some noise and plan to rerun it soonish
<pitti> ACTION: mvo to produce an up to date dapper -> hardy-proposed /etc/ upgrade diff
<seb128> pitti: that's part of the giant gvfs smb mess we have
 * pitti hugs mvo, thanks
<seb128> and the bug title is not accurate
<pitti> seb128: who's on that? Steve and you, I suppose?
<seb128> yes, for some value of being on it
<pitti> seb128: btw, it seems that SMB connection icons on your desktop disappear on upgrade; is that already known as well?
<seb128> but I really need to look at those for 8.04.1 and steve offer to help on those too
<seb128> pitti: it's in the milestone list somewhere, search for gnomevfs there
<seb128> or gnome-vfs
<pitti> seb128: ah, thanks
<pitti> hm, bug 186049
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 186049 in galago-sharp "System.DllNotFoundException: libgalago" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186049
<pitti> beagle search? galago? that doesn't sound very mainish to me?
<seb128> no it's not
<pitti> ok, so let's not worry about assigning it now
<pitti> that's the list for our team as far as I can see
<pitti> anything else?
<seb128> not from me
<kwwii> nope
<pitti> I'll take the task of finding/fixing some more /etc upgrade bugs
<pitti> mvo already has his hands full, according to the milestone list
<Riddell> pitti: I'll probably have a load of main inclusion reports
<Riddell> needed for kde 4
<pitti> Riddell: ah, for intrepid?
<Riddell> pitti: yes
<Riddell> just to warn you (or doko)
<pitti> Riddell: will intrepid drop kde3?
<Riddell> pitti: as much as possible yes
<pitti> Riddell: right, I'm all for a package review, but we usually don't do MIRs for version upgrades?
<pitti> (which, in a way, that is)
<doko> Riddell: warn about what?
<Riddell> pitti: right but there's new dependencies
<pitti> e. g. I did not submit MIRs for a new postgresql release either, etc.
<pitti> Riddell: ah; those should have MIR bugs, yes
<Riddell> pitti: and some new kde modules, which may or may not count as new packages
<pitti> but I don't think that we need an MIR for e. g. kdelibs -> kdelibs-kde4
<Riddell> doko: that I'll need various MIRs for kde 4
<pitti> Riddell: sure; let's not waste our time with busywork for the standard components which had a KDE 3 counterpart, and the rest gets MIR bugs; do you think that's reasonable?
 * mvo_ is sorry - disconnected
<pitti> ... so that we can hand off the remaining 3242 bugs to mvo
<pitti> mvo_: oh, welcome back!
<seb128> ;-)
<Riddell> pitti: yes, although it's not always clear what had a kde 3 counterpart
<Riddell> e.g. the new kdepim server
<pitti> Riddell: well, common sense, I think
<Riddell> yep
<pitti> Riddell: if you introduce new networking libraries or ffmpeg, we better MIR them :)
<pitti> good, anything else we should talk about?
<seb128> pitti: any news about fixing the retracers?
<pitti> ugh, that
<seb128> pitti: we could use debug stacktraces for some crashers
<seb128> and autoduplicates closing too
<pitti> ok, so tomorrow will probably keep me busy with my archive day and SRU
<pitti> I'll try to reproduce these problems with fakechroot on my box this afternoon
<pitti> I have no idea why it suddenly falled apart so badly :(
<pitti> s/falled/fell/
<pitti> ACTION: pitti to look into fakechroot problems for apport retracers
<pitti> AOB?
<pitti> ok, then let's all give seb128 a big hug to spend his free day with us
<pitti> and enjoy having an ice cream now!
<Keybuk> pitti: thanks very much!
<seb128> ice cream yeah ;-)
<pitti> Riddell: hm, speaking about it, surprisingly few KDE bugs on the milestone list; does it just work? :-)
<pitti> ah, hi Keybuk
<cjwatson> pitti: all the code is there for hardy CDs to be enabled; somebody just needs to start running and testing them
<cjwatson> DIST=hardy cron.daily-live etc.
<pitti> cjwatson: oh, yay; they'll automatically use -proposed?
<cjwatson> "automatically" in the sense that I've already told them to do so, yes :-)
<pitti> right, that's what I meant cjwatson-proactive-automatically
<pitti> cjwatson: awesome, thanks!
<pitti> I'll set up the cronjobs then
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<Riddell> pitti: well KDE 3.5 is pretty stable after three releases
<pitti> Riddell: lucky you! :)
<pitti> Riddell: kde 3.5.10 should *so much* be ported to gvfs *duck*
<Keybuk> thought of the day ...
<Keybuk> did we decide whether to do Kubuntu 8.04.1 or not?
<pitti> oh, is that decision our's?
<Keybuk> do we _want_ to?
<Keybuk> Riddell: ?
<cjwatson> marilize was asking me about that (by implication); I dodged the question because I wasn't sure :-)
<cjwatson> I think what I said was that I saw no reason not to release CDs for anything that gets suitably tested
<pitti> my feeling, too ^
<Riddell> Keybuk: I don't think it's been discussed
<Keybuk> Riddell: do you think it's a good idea?
<cjwatson> there will probably be changes that affect Kubuntu, even if there's little in the way of specific work on KDE
<Keybuk> Riddell: do you think we'll get enough test coverage for it?
<cjwatson> i.e. kernel and platform changes
<cjwatson> s/probably/definitely/
<Keybuk> kubuntu people will get the large -updates collection the first time they install updates anyway
<Riddell> Keybuk: yes I think we can get test coverage, it seems like a good idea to me
 * cjwatson would rather take the opportunity to reduce mirror load, personally
<cjwatson> by shipping roll-ups of updates
<Keybuk> just the Kubuntu CD?
<Keybuk> or the KDE 4 remix as well?
<Riddell> there's not been any kde 4 updates (unless we move 4.0.4 to -updates)
<cjwatson> Riddell: same comment re kernel+platform changes
<Riddell> yep
<Riddell> so if we can get it tested, may as well
<pitti> Riddell: ok, so I'll set up daily CDs for kubuntu and k4buntu, too?
<Riddell> pitti: please do
<cjwatson> k4buntu> :-)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Security Team meeting | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Security Team meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<kees> #startmeeting
<kees> err
<kees> no mootbot?
<kees> well, I can paste logs manually.  :)
<mra> heh
<kees> so, who all is here for the security team meeting?
<propagandist> heyya ;o]
<mra> I am
<jdstrand> o/
<kees> alright, let's get started.  Current Agenda is here:
<kees> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<kees> I don't see emgent, so I'll dropped the whitehat topic for now.
<kees> [topic] CVE review
<kees> we've got a bunch of things cooking
<kees> any CVEs anyone is interested in working on?
<jdstrand> I might suggest https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/speex/+bug/218652
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 218652 in xine-lib "CVE-2008-1686: Multiple speex implementations insufficient boundary checks" [Undecided,In progress]
<jdstrand> I am handling xine-lib, gstreamer, speex and vorbis-tools, but there are a lot of universe packages that need it
<kees> yeah, it's a pretty long list.
<jdstrand> it's an easy patch
<jdstrand> but a lot of packages
<kees> also on the horizon is a kernel update, probably early next week.  it's being built currently.
<kees> in an effort to increase CVE visibility, jdstrand and I have built a web area that is exported regularly from the ubuntu-cve-tracker bzr tree:
<kees> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/open.html
<jdstrand> kees: do you want to advertise that link, since it's a symlink?
<kees> (and some graphs as well: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/open-cves.png)
<jdstrand> (I don't care, but I thought since it isn't official yet, we could use the real one)
<kees> jdstrand: an index.html needs to be built up, but it's a reasonable starting point for the moment.
<jdstrand> fair enough
<mra> it looks good so far
<kees> any help with open CVEs (especially testing) is, of course, greatly appreciated.  :)
<jdstrand> absolutely!
<jdstrand> :)
<kees> okay, moving on...
<kees> [topic] SELinux status
<kees> propagandist: how goes selinux in the final hardy release?  I haven't seen many complaints.
<propagandist> kees: other than a few bugs, its going well
<mra> is there any way to see how many people have switched over to it?
<propagandist> That would be interesting to know...
<jdstrand> popularity-contest could give a relative idea
<jdstrand> but I don't know how many people use that
<kees> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/
<kees> I'm not sure how to examine just hardy, though
<kees> 42 people are using it says popcon.  :)
<kees> so, I suspect that's not a useful number.
<mra> that's pretty good for how new it is
<kees> propagandist: any specific plans for intrepid?
<propagandist> kees: some additional policies for maybe apache and xguest (just suggestions) and some work to sync up with debian as much as possible
<kees> propagandist: sounds good.
<propagandist> I'm open to suggestions as well
<jdstrand> propagandist: I'm surious as to what you'll come up with to contain apache, especially wrt virtual hosts, php and perl
<jdstrand> s/surious/curious/
<kirkland> kees: sorry, missed the roll call, belated, "here"
<kees> propagandist: btw, is anyone from tresys coming to UDS?
<kees> heya kirkland, no worries.  :)
<propagandist> jdstrand: ;o] me too... I'll be using the current refpol as a starting point, but after that we'll see
<propagandist> jdstrand: I'll try to keep everyone updated on the plan for that
<propagandist> kees: I don't think so. It's in Prague yes?
<jdstrand> propagandist: I mention that, because I was hoping at some point to do the equivalent with apparmor, but the way apache is packaged now doesn't really help with profiling :?
<jdstrand> mathiaz and I started a conversation on it, but we may talk about it more at UDS
<kees> propagandist: yea, prague
<jdstrand> propagandist: it might be a several release process to get apache in shape-- especially since we would want to get Debian involved
<propagandist> jdstrand: true true
<kees> okay, moving on...
<kees> [topic] hardy review
<kees> while CVEs should really cover stuff in hardy, is there anything people wanted to talk about relating to the release?
<kees> anything to do better/different for intrepid, etc?
<SEJeff> Blog about the proactive security work
<SEJeff> We have smack and we also have capabilities support in the kernel
<SEJeff> Why not work on cutting down on suid root binaries?
<mra> that one can be tough because you can quickly cause usability problems
<kees> SEJeff: I've tended to blob about the things I'm directly involved in.  are those other two areas ones you could blog about?
<SEJeff> I started work on this awhile back: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Security/Investigation/Setuid
<kees> SEJeff: it looks like a pretty short list so far, which is good.
<SEJeff> kees, If we start writing patches to make some of those utilities only check the caps instead of the uid, would the patches get accepted into ubuntu if it takes awhile for upstream to adopt?
<kees> SEJeff: yup -- as long as there was no loss in functionality, I'd be happy to see them in Ubuntu.
<jdstrand> SEJeff: seeing that list, cupsys shouldn't be as big of a concern-- it is protected via apparmor by default (pitti purposely dropped the extensive derooting patch IIRC because of the use of apparmor)
<SEJeff> Here's the email about this I initially sent: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-hardened/2007-October/000227.html
<kees> I'd prefer they get passed up through Debian and upstream too, of course.
<SEJeff> Of course
<SEJeff> THats the goal, but gnu utilities maintainers are notorious for taking a LONG time for stuff like that. It took ages for the selinux folks to get the -Z options into upstream
<kees> yeah, understood, but having a LP bug linked to the upstream bug with the patch will go a long way towards being able to show where things stand for each package.
<kees> (and those LP bugs could be linked to from the wiki page)
<SEJeff> I also still owe you guys a version of ubuntu-cve-tracker that supports tablesorting. tablekit was just too heavyweight because of prototype.js
<SEJeff> I got it working and didn't like it so dropped it
<kees> heh
<jdstrand> SEJeff: oh yea-- I reworked the table slightly-- shouldn't affect too much based on what I saw of your previous work
<kees> I think we've gotten into intrepid so...
<kees> [topic] intrepid
<jdstrand> s/yea/yeah/
<kees> besides working on what interests people from the roadmap (and/or adding more things to the roadmap), there's at least one area I'd like to cover here: hardened compiler options
<kees> the testing done with the hardening-wrapper was a success, and as a result, the majority of its features were put directly into the gcc defaults
<kees> due to the need for a central place to document this, I wrote up: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags
<jdstrand> \o/
<jdstrand> *awesome* work and tenacity kees! :)
<kees> *whew* thanks.  I have to thank infinity and doko as well.  :)
<kees> and of course, everyone else who did testing of the wrapper
<SEJeff> Thats a huge win
<jdstrand> yea infinity and doko !
<kees> -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 is by far going to be the biggest glitch-causer, but the result will be better code overall
<kees> now, as far as PIE, there were many good concerns raised, so we'll discuss it further at UDS.  I'm pushing for PIE-by-default on amd64.
<jdstrand> it's for the mergers to fix right? ;P
<SEJeff> Ubuntu needs a page just like this: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Security/Features that is "marketed"
<kees> jdstrand: heh.  well, and anyone else watching the automated import build failures...
<kees> SEJeff: absolutely.  I actually have something a little like it, but it was rather ... bare ... until recently.
<jdstrand> SEJeff: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/features/security
<kees> the URL from jdstrand is a result of some of that "marketing" work
<kees> I want a matrix, though, too.
<jdstrand> nijaba wrote a lot of that
 * jdstrand nods
<kees> another area of work I'd like to see is on getting PIE-by-default for various daemon's builds.  it's the same list that was put together before, but the goal here would be to make it part of the build system, and to avoid the need for a wrapper.
<kees> specifically: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Security/HardeningWrapper#targets
<jdstrand> kees: you mean debian/rules?
<kees> jdstrand: yeah.
<kees> there is some example of how to do this in openssh, and is rather painful.
<jdstrand> a lot of those are already quite different from Debian, so that shouldn't be a big deal
<kees> while the wrapper is an easy way to test that the build and execution would work, I'd like to get a common "configure" macro or something to do it.
<jdstrand> (just the act of carrying the diff that is)
 * kees nods
<jdstrand> kees: what about dh_hardening
<jdstrand> ?
<kees> hunh.  probably more of a makefile include, but yeah, that's a great idea.
<kees> while not hugely popular yet, 10 debian source packages are using the hardening wrapper -- including quagga.
<jdstrand> IIRC, there seems to be quite a bit of interest though
<kees> yeah, even those few packages really put it through its paces.
<kees> wrung out a few odd-ball bugs
<kees> anyway...
<jdstrand> my main focus in terms of intrepid development is more work on ufw
<kees> we'll have more of an idea about the 'official' focus on security work after UDS.
<jdstrand> specifically package integration-- which is one of the topics at UDS
<SEJeff> Zelut has been working on ufw support for kickseed
<kees> I'm excited about that.  It should be very interesting.  :)
<SEJeff> indeed
<SEJeff> But for it to get into debian, that will probably have to use iptables
<jdstrand> SEJeff: yep-- been talking to him a bit about it
<jdstrand> SEJeff: ? ufw is just a front-end for iptables
<SEJeff> We'll work more on kickseed later on.
<jdstrand> oh, the kickseed part
<SEJeff> jdstrand, yes, and kickseed is in debian-installer
<SEJeff> but is ufw in debian by default? not so much
 * jdstrand doesn't think it's in Debian at *all* yet...
<kees> jdstrand: couldn't hurt to find a DD (*cough*) to sponsor it...
<jdstrand> heh
<jdstrand> it's on my todo list
<kees> :)
<jdstrand> I think I'd like to separate out debian/ from the bzr branch, but need to think about it some more
<kees> anything else to cover?  anything to bring up at UDS that isn't already in the roadmap?
<jdstrand> (I could look at what lamont does with bind9 for inspiration)
<SEJeff> kees, Focus on proactive security more. You've been doing a heck of a job so far. Don't stop
<kees> thanks; I'd like to do more.  :)
<jdstrand> SEJeff: that's another thing I hope to do-- add some more default enforcing apparmor profiles
<kees> [topic] next meeting
<kees> two weeks would be UDS.
<SEJeff> kees, Speaking of that. 1 last thing from me
<kees> how about we push to the 29th, so we can review UDS discussions?
<kees> SEJeff: sure
<SEJeff> Seeing as how Apparmor getting upstream still is stalled... and Smack is a MAC framework "aligning with Ubuntu's use cases"
<SEJeff> Why not look into migrating to SMACK
<SEJeff> It might seem radical, but you don't get the weird errors with things like the btrfs bug I sent to the list
<jdstrand> I'm on vacation on the 29th
<jdstrand> (that whole week actually)
<kees> SEJeff: true, it's worth looking into.  the main benefit with AA currently is the help we're getting from AA upstream with bugs, etc.
<SEJeff> Sure, because you are 1 of 2 users
 * kees nods
<SEJeff> SMACK upstream would have similar responses /me thinks
<kees> agreed.  there's a price to switching, but intrepid would certainly be a good time to examine that.
<SEJeff> ANd smack is upstream, so it causes less problems than anything out of tree
<mra> Casey is pretty good, the only real drawback is there is only one of him
<SEJeff> mra, and Crispin Cowan works for Microsoft now.
<mra> yes, but he hasn't been the one pushing patches for a while now
<kees> SuSE still has developers on AA, so I'm not freaking out just yet.
<mra> I'm just saying AA has less to worry about from freak bus accidents
<SEJeff> kees, They have commercial support contracts in place. Of course they will support it
<kees> but I'm quite glad to have the tresys folks working with Ubuntu too.  :)
<propagandist> What about SELinux (perhaps stating the obvious here)?
<propagandist> kees: :o)
<kees> propagandist: yup, that would be on the list too.  I've personally been more interested in "choice", but obviously we needed to pick something originally to run with.
<SEJeff> If I ever get time (maybe maybe not) I'll work on setroubleshootd
<jdstrand> propagandist: I am super excited about the selinux work that's happened so far
<propagandist> SEJeff: that would be awsome, I think joejaxx had a working/almost working package of it
<jdstrand> :)
<SEJeff> noted
<SEJeff> What about polgen-gui?
<SEJeff> ANyone working on that?
<kees> okay, so proposed meeting time: 2000 UTC, here, June 5th.
<SEJeff> You give them that and people can't say SELinux is hard anymore
<jdstrand> kees: wfm
<propagandist> kees: sounds good to me
<propagandist> SEJeff: ;o]
<mra> kees: that works
<propagandist> SEJeff: I don't think anyones started on that (maybe joejaxx though)
<kees> alright.  thanks everyone!
<kees> #endmeeting
<jdstrand> thanks kees!
<propagandist> thanks ;o]
<SEJeff> propagandist, Can we carry a bit more convo on in #ubuntu-hardened?
<propagandist> SEJeff: sure
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Security Team meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 09 May 16:30 UTC: Ubuntu 8.04.1 Team | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 09 May 16:30 UTC: Ubuntu 8.04.1 Team | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<emgent> @now rome
<ubottu> emgent: Current time in Europe/Rome: May 09 2008, 00:03:01 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day
<emgent> argh!
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-09
<emgent> @now rome
<ubottu> emgent: Current time in Europe/Rome: May 09 2008, 02:43:38 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day
<no0tic> @now
<ubottu> no0tic: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 09 2008, 00:51:14 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day
<emgent> :D
<emgent> @now rome
<ubottu> emgent: Current time in Europe/Rome: May 09 2008, 04:27:02 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubottu> emgent: Schedule for Europe/Rome: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | 09 May 06:00: MOTU | 09 May 18:30: Ubuntu 8.04.1 Team | 14 May 08:00: Platform Team | 14 May 23:00: Server Team | 15 May 15:00: Desktop Team
<RoAkSoAx> @now
<ubottu> RoAkSoAx: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 09 2008, 03:25:41 - Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day
<RoAkSoAx> @schedule
<ubottu> RoAkSoAx: Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | 09 May 04:00: MOTU | 09 May 16:30: Ubuntu 8.04.1 Team | 14 May 06:00: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00: Server Team | 15 May 13:00: Desktop Team
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> should we get on with it?
<TheMuso> 2 mins by my clock here.
<TheMuso> 1 min
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 May 16:30 UTC: Ubuntu 8.04.1 Team | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<LaserJock> ah, I have 2 after here
<persia_> Any volunteers to chair?
 * ajmitch is just here for the LaserJock fan club
<LaserJock> do we have the fancy bot in here andymore?
<ajmitch> not that I can see
<LaserJock> I can chair but I don't know how to use the bot
<TheMuso> Damn bots, we become too dependant on them.
<persia_> That's OK.  There's no bot.  Are you sure you want to both chair and have all the agenda items?
<ajmitch> they'll take over one day
<LaserJock> persia_: then you chair :-)
<persia_> Bah.
<TheMuso> I can chair if you'd like.
<persia_> Welcome to the MOTU Meeting for 9th May 2008.
<ajmitch> how about we hold a meeting on how to hold the MOTU meeting?
 * TheMuso gets the agenda up.
<persia_> The agenda is available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<persia_> Who would be willing to handle minutes & announcements for the next meeting?
 * TheMuso raises his hand.
<persia_> TheMuso: Thank you.
<persia_> OK.  First up, LaserJock re: Name/need for MOTU fan club?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> so this is from our last meeting
<ajmitch> state your rationale behind this suggestion
<LaserJock> where we renamed ubuntu-universe-contributors to revu-uploaders
<LaserJock> some people thought we should have an open team for people who wish to associate with MOTU can join
<RAOF> So people can LP badge hunt?
<ajmitch> so that they can feel involved?
<ajmitch> this team would have no functional purpose then?
<LaserJock> it's purpose is to help people find "identity"
<LaserJock> ajmitch: not presently no
<persia_> Badge hunting / feeling involved sounds clearer than "fan club" to me.
<RAOF> Very much so.
<ajmitch> so this would come before the team that grants ubuntu membership which is prior to upload rights?
<LaserJock> persia_: yeah, I just threw it up there
<lifeless> badge hunting is a time honoured wow tradition
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yep
<ajmitch> team proliferation
<RAOF> Yeah.  I don't really see how membership of an entirely open team maps to feeling involved in anything but a transient way.
<LaserJock> sebner last time said he joined u-u-c just to gain some identity with the team
<ajmitch> RAOF: like my involvement with MOTU? ;)
<LaserJock> I've seen a few times where people have asked if they could join a team to get into MOTU
<RAOF> I'd suggest hanging around in #u-motu is both a better way to feel involved and learn useful things at the same time.
<LaserJock> RAOF: for sure, but that doesn't really say anything about a team
<LaserJock> it's an orthogonal issue
<TheMuso> Doesn't make sense to me.
<LaserJock> persia_: thoughts?
<RAOF> LaserJock: I thought the idea was to make people feel more involved?
<ajmitch> anyone can create such a team, to be honest
<LaserJock> RAOF: for people who see joining such a team, yes
 * persia_ temporarily takes off the "chair" hat.
<LaserJock> but it doesn't mean that joining #ubuntu-motu is any less important
<ajmitch> that must be a heavy hat
<LaserJock> ajmitch: it's a small chair
<persia_> Such a team might make sense, if there was a known purpose, and a clear demand.  I'm not sure there is value if there is no demand, and no known purposed
<LaserJock> agreed for sure
<RAOF> And that it's a distraction from a useful way to feel involved; ie: hang in #motu or join the motu list.
<LaserJock> my agenda item is mostly a response to what sebner said last time
<ajmitch> it would give people some way to say "I'm a foo!
<ajmitch> "
<ajmitch> but no more
<LaserJock> well
<ajmitch> fill in foo with the appropiate team member name
<LaserJock> we currently have no good way of seeing who's associated with MOTU
<LaserJock> in terms of new people
<ajmitch> what does it mean to be associated?
<ajmitch> are you looking at potential MOTUs?
<ajmitch> revu-uploaders?
<LaserJock> well, it shows interest
<LaserJock> and potential for contribution
<LaserJock> we'd surely get badge hunters
<RAOF> What would we do with the knowledge of interest or potenital contribution?
<ajmitch> I'm not opposed to the idea, I just don't see it being much use
<ajmitch> maybe as a psychological stepping-stone into MOTU
<bbyever> i think people show more interest when they join a channel or a mailling list than just a lp team
<RAOF> I mean, that we wouldn't get by people popping up in #motu or on the motu list?
<LaserJock> well, would it be worth an email to -motu asking if people are interested?
 * persia_ redons hat
<persia_> There doesn't seem to be much of either agreement or argument.
<TheMuso> Maybe its something for the ML.
<persia_> LaserJock: Could you put together a draft wiki page decsribing the potential team for representation at a future meeting?
<persia_> (or the mailing list :) )
<ajmitch> persia_: probably because it's such a non-intrusive change that it wouldn't mean much to us either way
<LaserJock> persia_: I think an email would be best. I'm not sure a wiki page is going to do much right now
<persia_> ajmitch: Perhaps, but my immediate concern is about finishing the agenda within an hour :)
<ajmitch> well the next 2 items aren't too long, I'm sure :)
<LaserJock> persia_: if we get lost of response I/we can do a wiki page for a formal proposal
<persia_> LaserJock: Makes sense.  Anything else you want to add for this item, or shall we go to the next?
<LaserJock> nah, I just wondered what people thought of the idea
<LaserJock> I think we all pretty much agree
<ajmitch> next item is fairly simple, I think
<LaserJock> persia_: moving on?
<persia_> OK.  Next item: LaserJock re: Require 7 day aging period in -proposed for SRUs?
<LaserJock> ok
 * persia_ doesn't always type sufficiently quickly
<LaserJock> so our current SRU wiki page only says that verification requires 2 + votes and no - votes
<ajmitch> If, as I've been told, archive admins require this anyway, then there's no reason not to sync MOTU SRU policy with what's expected by archive admins
<LaserJock> however, the ArchiveAdmin page says that there is a 7-day aging period
 * ajmitch lets LaserJock 'talk' :)
<LaserJock> as a MOTU SRU member I think we should resolve the two for sure
<LaserJock> and don't mind  7-day aging
<ajmitch> ok, I agree, objections to the plan? :)
<LaserJock> *however* I do see where we need to be able to have exceptions to that
<TheMuso> IMO we sync with what main has.
<TheMuso> Less confusing.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: well, Main doesn't have it either
<TheMuso> LaserJock: So you're saying we should have a 7 day aging period?
<LaserJock> this is w.u.c/StableReleaseUpdates vs w.u.c/ArchiveAdministration
<LaserJock> SRU has no 7 day aging, ArchiveAdmin does have it
<TheMuso> Right.
<persia_> From my reading of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-11-23, ~motu-sru may adjust the plan as required, at their will, so long as MOTU is notified of the changes.
<LaserJock> and pitti says 7-days is his current SOP
<RoAkSoAx> (sorry if its kinda late)  I would like to make a suggestion. If you create a team, so called a fan club, you should give that team special tasks so that they will feel more involved than just being part of a ML or being active on a #u-motu. That way, those team members will have some specifical things to work on and not just going around searching for things to do... For example, all those team members would work in certain type of bugs, maybe
<RoAkSoAx>  only work on merges or things like that.
<LaserJock> so
<LaserJock> everybody think going with the 7-day aging is cool?
<TheMuso> Yep.
<RAOF> Yes, if that's archive admin or main sru policy.
<persia_> Just to ensure consensus, I'd like there to be an ACK from one of jdong, imbrandon, or dktrkranz, although not necessarily in this meeting.
<persia_> (unless you decide it's just an oversight by the last person to edit the page)
<LaserJock> sure, I can email them
<persia_> OK.  Anyone disagree with a 7-day aging period, or shall we move on?
<LaserJock> well, I think perhaps the ArchiveAdmin page was just never updated
<TheMuso> Move on IMO.
<LaserJock> but I think it's reasonable and if that's the way they've been operating anyway
<LaserJock> might as well get it written down for everybody
<persia_> Next up: LaserJock with General thoughts on microrelease exceptions to "minimal diff" requirement for SRUs
<LaserJock> ok, so the TB approved a process for having exceptions to the "minimal changes to fix the bug" rule for SRUs
<persia_> Is there a link to the exception process?
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
<LaserJock> basically, the TB approves packages that do stable branch microreleases
<LaserJock> right now there is only firefox, thunderbird, and postgresql
<LaserJock> I emaild the TB about the possibility of MOTU SRU doing the approval for Universe packages
<ajmitch> which packages in universe do you think this may apply to?
<LaserJock> well, often times gnome-related packages have a stable branching scheme
<LaserJock> one I know personally is gchemutils
<LaserJock> but perhaps glom, as we've been discussing with Murray Cummings about what to do there
<RAOF> And a test suite?  Do we want to maintain that criterion?
<ajmitch> so this suggestions is mainlly that the motu-sru team should petition the TB to be allowed to decide?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, the TB told me to liase with slangasek on the issue, which I'm working on
<LaserJock> basically, given good enough testing it shouldn't be a big deal to do new uptream microreleases
<ajmitch> ok, so what are you asking from us?
<LaserJock> well, basically is this something you guys would like to see?
<ajmitch> sure, if the packages involved are sane
<LaserJock> I'm looking at things that might streamline the SRU process
<RAOF> I don't touch many packages with a test suite, let alone one that's run during package build.  Are there many such packages in universe?
 * ajmitch is not involved in the SRU process, so doesn't have much of opinion worth considering
<persia_> (speaking only as myself): In addition to approved microrelease exceptions per-package, it may be interesting to look at selected microreleases by non-exempt packages where only a subset of the closed bugs would otherwise be considered suitable for SRU.
<LaserJock> RAOF: I'm guessing a test suite would not be required.
<RAOF> Right.  That'd be worth mentioning :)
<LaserJock> RAOF: well, I haven't specifically thought of that
<LaserJock> but the number of packages with test suites is pretty small
<LaserJock> and Universe, in general, just isn't so strict
<RAOF> Yeah.
<TheMuso> Yeah I'd like this.
<LaserJock> persia_: right
<TheMuso> 5~/c
<LaserJock> one thing I'm seeing in SRU is that we fix one bug at a time
<LaserJock> if an upstream does a bug-fix-only release that fixes 5 bugs, one of them being an SRU bug, I think we're making things better
<TheMuso> I agree.
<RAOF> Absolutely.
<LaserJock> I'm also looking at upstream testing
<LaserJock> upstreams often are going to have more testing than we're going to be able to do in -proposed
<LaserJock> so I sometimes worry about the potential for us to cause a regression/bug in cherry picking
<ajmitch> trying to cut down on the number of "you all suck" blog posts after a release?
<LaserJock> yes, that too :-)
<LaserJock> we want to balance keeping user's systems stable with the need to get usptream fixes to users
<LaserJock> in an ideal world they'd be the same thing
<LaserJock> in any case
<LaserJock> I just wanted to hear people's feelings on "opening" up a little more to upstream bug-fix-only releases
<LaserJock> well, that and I thought we should have an agenda for tonight ;-)
 * ajmitch is happy enough with the idea
 * ajmitch is also not involved in approving such packages :)
<LaserJock> on a somewhat side note, I think MOTU SRU is really kicking butt right now
<TheMuso> Agreed.
<persia_> Anyone else want to express an opinion about opening this right now?
<RAOF> Nope.  I'm broadly in agreement.
<persia_> OK.  LaserJock: Please continue keeping us all informed about SRU stuff.
<persia_> Does anyone have any other business they would like discussed at today's MOTU Meeting?
<LaserJock> yeah, I just don't want to ramrod things through without getting people's thoughts
 * ajmitch can't wait to join the laserjock-fan-club team on LP
<LaserJock> pfft
<LaserJock> persia_: I think I'm good
<persia_> Actually, I've one.  The next meeting is scheduled for 23rd May, 12:00 UTC, which is during UDS.  Anyone else think the 30th might be a better date?
<TheMuso> Yes.
<TheMuso> Things will be in full swing at that time.
<TheMuso> i.e during uds.
<persia_> Anyone really want to have the meeting on the 23rd?  (you have seconds to speak, or you wait a week for the meeting)
<persia_> (err.. 120 seconds)
<LaserJock> yeah, I think moving it to the 30th is reasonable
<LaserJock> I don't know how many people are going to UDS but it I don't think we exactly have any pressing issues
<RAOF> The 30th seems reasonable.
<TheMuso> There will be a lot of MOTU folk there.
<LaserJock> great
<LaserJock> so that's a good reason to postpone
<persia_> OK.  Next meeting will be 12:00 UTC on the 30th then.
<persia_> Meeting adjourned.
<TheMuso> Thanks fols.
<TheMuso> folks
<LaserJock> awesome
<LaserJock> thanks everybody
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Bugs for Hugs Day | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 May 16:30 UTC: Ubuntu 8.04.1 Team | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 May 16:30 UTC: Ubuntu 8.04.1 Team | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu 8.04.1 Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<ubuntero-ar> ï»¿*******   Pedro Villavicencio Garrido -----------> Â¿Â¿Â¿porque me expulsaste del canal #ubuntu-cl ???? Â¿Â¿Â¿que te pasa???'
<ubuntero-ar> ï»¿ï»¿*******   Pedro Villavicencio Garrido -----------> Â¿Â¿Â¿porque me expulsaste del canal #ubuntu-cl ???? Â¿Â¿Â¿que te pasa???'
<jdavies> ...
<jdavies> mruiz: you here for ubuntero-ar?
<pedro_> ubuntero-ar: you're insulting us, that's why
<jdavies> ubuntero-ar: el lugar mejor para descutir esto seria en #ubuntu-irc
<mruiz> jdavies , hi. Yes... days ago we had some troubles with him
<jdavies> hi pedro_
<jussi01> this is really not the place...
<ubuntero-ar> estaba buscando al sujeto y esta acÃ¡ basta de defensa coorporativa
<jdavies> best take this to #ubuntu-irc
<pedro_> jdavies: agreed :-)
<jdavies> ubuntero-ar: por favor haz: /join #ubuntu-irc
<ubuntero-ar> ï»¿/join #ubuntu-irc
<jdavies> sin el espacio
<zul> afternoon
 * pitti does the Hardy dance
<pochu> @now
<ubottu> pochu: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 09 2008, 16:30:29 - Current meeting: Ubuntu 8.04.1 Team
 * asac jumps in
<slangasek> morning, folks
 * ogasawara waves
 * mvo waves
 * zul waves
 * bdmurray waves
<pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html is rocking hard
<bdmurray> pitti: does tagging bugs as hw-specific still get reflected there?
<pitti> don't know about you guys, but for me it helped tremendously to actually *use* hardy while doing fixes for it :)
<asac> pitti: those are the ones we should verify, right?
<pitti> bdmurray: yes
<pitti> bdmurray: (hw)
<pitti> asac: right, the non-green ones
<pitti> I spend about 2 hours on SRU processing every day, so people are very active :)
<slangasek> :)
<asac> bookmarked
 * seb128 hugs pitti for the good work
 * pedro_ waves
<seb128> hello pedro_
<pedro_> hey seb128
<slangasek> ok, let's go ahead and get started, I'll direct evand to the logs afterwards
<bdmurray> So if I am running the proposed kernel and have no issues with it how do I document that?
<pitti> I just have two points, but let's hand the mike to slangasek
<slangasek> (though perhaps we're already started :)
<slangasek> likewise, I just have a couple of things
<pitti> bdmurray: for cases like that I usually say exactly that in the bug
<bdmurray> pitti: but there are 9 bugs for the kernel...
<slangasek> first, please keep in mind that any bug that's going to be fixed in an SRU needs to be tracked in both hardy and intrepid, which means nominating the bug for release
<pitti> ^ also my point
<pitti> please create *both* hardy and intrepid tasks
<slangasek> We currently have a large number of bugs that are milestoned but have not yet been targeted for the release!
<pitti> so that we won't forget to fix stuff in intrepid which we SRUed
<slangasek> (You can see the difference in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1264, and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1264)
<pitti> (many bugs don't even have hardy tasks)
<asac> slangasek: so the right search to get a list of bugs that need are properly targetted would be to search in "hardy" + 8.04.1 tag?
<evand> Sorry about that.
<slangasek> asac: correct; the first of those links I provided is the list of bugs that are tracked as "release-critical" for .1.
<asac> i was a bit confused what search i should exactly use to get the right ones :/
<slangasek> evand: hi; will send logs in /msg
<evand> thanks slangasek
<slangasek> of course, in practice since there are so *many* more bugs that are targeted for .1 without being targeted to the release, I can't ignore the other set either - but if any of those bugs are *yours*, please make sure you talk to me about getting them targeted to release. :)
<asac> slangasek: so whould someone go through the second link and nominate those that look properly milestoned?
<slangasek> asac: yes, that's an ongoing task of mine, but I would like us to get to the point where I don't have to poll the page :)
<pitti> asac: you can do that 'on the go' when you start working on a bug
<asac> pitti: right. question is if we should work on all bugs of the second link
<asac> maybe slangasek wants to filter them first
<pitti> slangasek: +milestone/8.04.1 should be good enough for an overview, no?
<pitti> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.04.1 that is
<pitti> that's my preferred page
<pitti> since it shows assignments and doesn't care (so much) about tasks
<slangasek> asac: for the moment, I'm just asking that people make sure that any bugs that their team has identified as targets for 8.04.1 get targeted to the release
<slangasek> asac: I'll take care of filtering the rest and confirming/denying release nominations
<pitti> for the record, yesterday the desktop team went through the list and assigned desktopish stuff to people
<pitti> it would be good if the other teams could do the same
<asac> slangasek: ok, so we should only work on nominated ones and the teams should get around and fix that list as good as possible
<pitti> IMHO it is very important to have assignees
<asac> will do that for mozilla stuff now
<pitti> unassigned milestoned bugs -> will be forgotten about
<slangasek> pitti: right, unfortunately I don't find a way to filter that list to bugs that are properly nominated :)
<pitti> asac: you should be able to create the actual tasks, not just nominations
<asac> pitti: yes. word confusion here
<slangasek> pitti: so I need to catch up on that first
<pitti> slangasek: you mean sth. like https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+nominations?field.subscriber=ubuntu-sru ?
<pitti> well, probably not with subscriber, but rather with a milestone
<slangasek> pitti: roughly, yes
<slangasek> but then, that's the page I already linked to :)
<slangasek> ok, the next thing from me is to check in and make sure that everyone's workloads are appropriate, or whether we need to try to redistribute
<pitti> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+nominations?field.milestone%3Alist=1264
<pitti> slangasek: ^ I think that's pretty good
<slangasek> yes.  It's not the same view, though, it lacks the assignee info you were keen on :)
<pitti> slangasek: right, but ideally this list would be empty, so we can just go through and accept/deny
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> so, no comments from anyone on workload?
<zul> no Im good
 * pitti is fine, he'll grab some more bugs (and generate some with the /etc upgrade diff)
<seb128> help on desktop bugs is welcome
<seb128> I'll never manage to tackle everything singled handed
<kirkland> anyone with particular expertise on openssl?  I could use a second set of eyes on a memory leak....
<kirkland> i see pitti's name in the changelog :-)
<pitti> *cough*
<pitti> kirkland: happy to review
<asac> slangasek: i am still utilized with catching up on my own SRU stuff. i expect to have cycles for others by mid of next week, so could start to assign some low-hanging fruits to me.
<kirkland> that's what i thought :-)
<slangasek> seb128: is there a good list somewhere of the desktop bugs in question?
<kirkland> pitti: i'll ping you later
<asac> own == mozilla related
<pitti> kirkland: (although I'm not an openssl guru at all, but I can give it a general review)
<evand> I can probably handle taking on a few more bugs in the near future, but I'd like to make sure I get through the major installer issues first.
<slangasek> asac: great, thanks
<seb128> slangasek: bugs in those lists assigned to ubuntu-desktop
<zul> the server team keeps track of server related bugs on the wiki for what its worth works for us
<asac> but remember that i am 50% ;)
<evand> By all means, assign things to me as well
<slangasek> evand: oh, btw, I did a one-off hardy livecd build yesterday; if it checks out I can go ahead and cron something
<evand> hooray
<evand> that will make my life much easier, thanks
<pitti> oh, yeah, that's one of my current TODOs, cron hardy-proposed dailies
<pitti> we need them to SRU-verify installer things
<slangasek> kirkland: I also have some familiarity with OpenSSL <whimper>, so if I'm easier to grab than pitti on account of timezones or whatnot, feel free
<kirkland> slangasek: thx.
<pitti> encryptz: maybe just grab some from the unassigned list you feel comfortable with?
<slangasek> seb128: hmm, currently I find zero bugs in those lists assigned to ubuntu-desktop, maybe I'm doing something wrong
<pitti> erm, evand, I meant
<asac> maybe we can setup a wiki page with a list links to tasks?
<pitti> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.04.1 has plenty
<pitti> slangasek: ^
<slangasek> then I guess my query is broken somewhere :)
<pitti> argh, please no wiki page for tracking bugs
<slangasek> oh, these are assigned to desktop-bugs, not ubuntu-desktop :)
<evand> pitti: ok, I'll give a look through it
<seb128> slangasek: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.milestone%3Alist=1264&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_cve.used=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&search=Search
<pitti> evand: (sort first by status, then by assignee, otherwise you'll go crazy)
<evand> haha ok
<slangasek> shorter URL: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1264&field.assignee=desktop-bugs :)
<pitti> seb128: I'll grab bug 210379
<slangasek> ok, ^^ there's the list of bugs that seb128 is asking for help with on desktop
<asac> pitti: well ... there are lots of links floating around :) i don't want the bugs on wiki page ... just the links we paste here ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 210379 in glib2.0 "should not list mounts that the user doesn't have permission to use" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210379
<pitti> that's my competency
<pitti> asac: ah, yes, that would be good
<seb128> pitti: that one should already be fixed
<pitti> seb128: no, see my latest bug comment (upstream and LP)
<seb128> pitti: though the fix doesn't work for you? I'm just reading my mails about that
<seb128> ok, thanks
<pitti> assigned to me
<pitti> (it takes some communication with hal probably)
<seb128> pitti: right, I suggested that on the bug before too (checking for local mounts)
<pitti> seb128: I saw
<slangasek> zul: I didn't get a chance to chase up all of those bugs before the meeting, but yes, we ought to have all of the relevant bug state in LP itself instead of stored externally in a wiki; pitti and bdmurray are both very good at generating static web pages from LP queries, so I'm sure one of them could show you guys how to get the reporting view you want without trying to keep a separate authoritative source for the data
<zul> slangasek: sure but Rick asked me to do that so he could track them better
<pitti> zul: e. g. http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html is dynamically generated for tracking bugs, and IMHO it's very useful (and updated hourly)
<slangasek> zul: noted, I'll talk to Rick then :)
<zul> but I will ask pitti and bdmurray as well
<pitti> zul: I'm happy to add more stuff to it if you need something
<zul> pitti: thanks
<pitti> zul: or categorize it differently, etc
<slangasek> it's reasonable to want a page that lets the team get an easy overview, but this page needs to be built from LP data
<slangasek> 5 minutes on the clock, any other business?
<pitti> o/
<zul> nope
<pitti> I would appreciate if you guys could follow some rules which would really help me with the SRU bug management:
<slangasek> pitti: go ahead :)
<pitti>  * make sure that the bug has proper and correct tasks
<pitti>  * try to avoid stacking uploads into -proposed without getting the older ones into -updates first
<pitti>  * if you do upload a new version into -proposed, use -v<latest version in -updates/final>
<pitti> (otherwise they become a nightmare to track)
<pitti>  * after you uploaded to -proposed, don't forget about it; encourage and chase people to get it tested!
 * mvo coughs for being guitly of point (2)
<pitti> with the current number of SRUs, I can't possibly chase all bugs to get verified
<pitti> I'm a bottleneck for SRU processing, so I'd like to spend less time with fixing tasks, asking people whether stuff is fixed in intrepid, asking for test cases, etc.
<slangasek> on that note, bdmurray had also asked me about folks not providing test cases for their SRU uploads
<pitti> I do see that this is hard for things like the current kernel upload
<pitti> I guess for those we can just all use the new kernel for two weeks and then take the plunge
<slangasek> this is documented on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates as one of the responsibilities of the SRUer - please provide a clear test case in the bug description wherever possible, so that our SRU verification team can get a handle on these bugs with a minimum of effort
<pitti> also, it's perfectly reasonable to ask bug reporters for testing stuff
<pitti> even more so for hardware specific issues
<seb128> anybody has an issue with the evolution switch to gnome-keyring btw?
 * pitti doesn't use a keyring in evo, didn't test
<pitti> but I can set it up if required
<slangasek> pitti: this is in reference to email passwords, AFAIK?
<seb128> I don't feel strongly about it, I think it's better to have the keyring used for the lts but we can do without it too
<slangasek> I don't use evo for email, is the thing-
<zul> pitti: what about test cases that require special hardware?
<pitti> well, I only have a local Maildir,
<pitti> zul: as I said, I think for those the bug reporters should test it
<seb128> pitti: no ldap directory configured in evo either?
<zul> pitti: gotcha
<pitti> seb128: not ATM
<pitti> seb128: I did have LDAP for taks and contacts at one point, but that was only for testing
<bdmurray> zul: It'd be helpful if those were tagged as hw-specific too
<seb128> ok
<pitti> (about three years ago perhaps)
<zul> bdmurray: sure
<pitti> seb128: let's discuss that offline
<slangasek> and we're at time - any last-minute comments before everyone runs away? :)
<seb128> pitti: ok
<slangasek> adjourned.  thanks, folks!
<evand> thanks
<pitti> thanks everyone
<pitti> oh
<pitti> next meeting?
<pitti> 'when we need one'?
<slangasek> I'll send out a proposed meeting time for next week by email
<seb128> thanks
<asac> thanks
<zul> thanks
<mvo> thanks
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<RoAkSoAx> anyone knows if the CC meeting handles issues related to translations?
<RoAkSoAx> or if there is a council that can handle that?
<juliux> RoAkSoAx, add it to the cc agenda and we will see what happens
<RoAkSoAx> ok thanks juliux
<RoAkSoAx> =)
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-10
<RoAkSoAx> @now
<ubottu> RoAkSoAx: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 09 2008, 23:48:34 - Next meeting: Platform Team in 4 days
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-04
<stgraber> @schedule Montreal
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-05
<Keybuk> cjwatson, mdz: ping
<mdz> hi
<cjwatson> here
<Keybuk> I've just /msg'd sabdfl
<siretart`> hm. me is here as well, but need to leave for another meeting here at my job
<Keybuk> siretart`: no problem, randa informed me that you'd need to leave earlier
<Keybuk> cjwatson: you chaired the last meeting, right?
<siretart`> in case that I don't manage to return before the end of the TB meeting:
<cjwatson> I think so. Did I forget to do notes?
<Keybuk> I can't see any notes since ~March
<cjwatson> whoopsie
<siretart`> I'd like to suggest to promote x264. it is clean license wise but implements an mpeg4 encoder
<cjwatson> I'll sort that out, then, sorry
<Keybuk> siretart`: Codecs in ffmpeg has been on the agenda before, and without the notes I can't remember what's left to discuss
<siretart`> if we could promote it from multiverse to universe, then vlc and 'ffmpeg' (without -debian) could be promoted as well
<cjwatson> multiverse/universe is purely a question of licence, not patents, AFAIK
<cjwatson> that can be done with a simple bug, subscribing ubuntu-archive
<siretart`> oh, I understand that x264 should be promoted then? - great, I'll file a bug then
<siretart`> thanks!
<cjwatson> I haven't looked at it, but from your description it sounds OK
<cjwatson> I don't think we really discussed this at the last meeting, anyway
<cjwatson> it was a carry-over
<Keybuk> ok
<cjwatson> but if there's nothing urgent we can probably move on ...
<Keybuk> siretart`: was that sufficient? or was there anything else on that topic?
<Keybuk> guess he's moved on
<Keybuk> so we'll do the same
<Keybuk> mdz: you've added an agenda item about the ubuntu-drivers team
<Keybuk> which is something of a magic glue team for Launchpad privileges
<mdz> right
<mdz> so this came up as a result of the kernel team having difficulty with bug nominations
<mdz> rumour has it that this is controlled by the ubuntu-drivers team
<mdz> but I have more or less lost track of what privileges that team actually has
<mdz> I'm pretty sure it's a lot more than just bug nominations
<Keybuk> we'd probably need a Launchpad coder to confirm
<mdz> the description of the team in LP says "This team needs a rethink after a discussion about privilege levels in Launchpad"
<mdz> and I agree
<cjwatson> I'm reasonably sure that something in blueprints is controlled by ubuntu-drivers too
<Keybuk> cjwatson: targeting to sprints got separated out
<cjwatson> and I certainly remember that the reason we had such trouble with that team was that the set of people we wanted doing feature planning work wasn't the same as the set we wanted doing bug nomination approval
<mdz> so what I think needs to happen is an audit of 1) where ubuntu-drivers is used to fill a role, 2) what privileges are associated with those roles, 3) which role(s) can do what (e.g. nominate bugs)
<Keybuk> the sprint Driver is now the team that can approve blueprint proposals for a sprint
<mdz> then for us to reorganize how we do it around that
<Keybuk> however it may be that the distro Driver is the team that can approve blueprint nominations for a distro release or milesstone
<Keybuk> (do we use that?)
<mdz> since sabdfl invented ubuntu-drivers, I think, I was hoping we could give this task to him, but he doesn't seem to be attending the meeting
<Keybuk> I'm reasonably sure that the distro Driver is the team that can approve bug nominations for a distro release
<cjwatson> note that one of the steps on NewReleaseCycleProcess is to set ubuntu-core-dev as the driver for the stable release
<Keybuk> there's something to do with drivers in hwdb submissions as well
<cjwatson> IOW ubuntu-drivers is the Driver for /ubuntu, and furthermore ubuntu-core-dev is also the Driver for /ubuntu/jaunty et al
<cjwatson> (but not /ubuntu/karmic. Don't ask me, I didn't invent this)
<Keybuk> EditSpecificationByTargetOwnerOrOwnersOrAdmins
<mdz> we seem to agree that this needs clarification
<cjwatson> let's delegate to sabdfl by mail? :-)
<mdz> cjwatson: yes, but with a backup who will chase it
<Keybuk> it seems to make more sense to just talk to the LP people directly?
<cjwatson> Keybuk: sprints> oh good
<Keybuk> to me, with a quick grep through the source, the distro drivers team is used in lots of surprising places
<cjwatson> although I don't think it was just sprints
<Keybuk> cjwatson: right, as I said above
<Keybuk> sprint driver -> approve proposal for sprint
<Keybuk> distro driver -> approve targeting to a release
<mdz> Keybuk: if you're willing to take it on, I'd be grateful
<mdz> so long as it gets documented somewhere, so we can get out of this paralysis of not knowing what effect our changes would have
<Keybuk> I don't mind chasing this
<cody-somerville> (Keybuk: its a trap)
<mdz> Keybuk: ok, your action & we can move on?
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> cjwatson: archive reorg
<cjwatson> so I have three things here where I'd like TB decisions to be made. I'll take the simplest first
<cjwatson> DebianMaintainerField: obviously <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> for universe/multiverse packages no longer makes as much sense in the new world order. Does anyone object to simply setting Maintainer to <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com> across the board?
<mdz> sounds appropriate to me
<LaserJock> do we have an idea about how many devs are actually subscribed to -devel-discuss?
<cjwatson> we copied the subscription db from ubuntu-devel when we created -devel-discuss, IIRC
<cjwatson> I've got no problem with advertising it more widely and generally trying to do a better job of it
<mdz> I don't even have the moderator password, no idea
<LaserJock> ok, I just wondered in terms of the field being used to get in touch with maintainers if we'd lose some people
<cjwatson> in practice I think it is not that frequently used as a contact address, but it's a useful general contact mechanism for upstreams who aren't especially well plugged into the Ubuntu community
<cjwatson> we won't be changing Maintainer in any event until we do the full component changes anyway
<cjwatson> at that point ubuntu-motu is likely to know about it :-)
<mdz> cjwatson: we still get the occasional rant from folks who expect it to go to an individual responsible for the package concerned
<Keybuk> cjwatson: as a contact address, it makes sense to me
<LaserJock> ubuntu-motu currently gets maybe 1-2 "contacting the Maintainer" emails a week
<mdz> which unfortunately is in conflict with the resolution with Debian
<Keybuk> mdz: in the few cases we have an individual responsible, don't we already set it?
<LaserJock> and almost all of them need to be redirected to the bug tracker
<cjwatson> mdz: we do often set it to an individual
<cjwatson> or a more appropriate list
<cjwatson> for example, installer packages are mostly ubuntu-installer@
<mdz> Keybuk,cjwatson: yes, the point is that most of the packages in Ubuntu don't have it set to an individual maintainer because there isn't one
<persia> http://pileofstuff.org/ubuntu-survey/ is an unscientific summary of some polling about ubuntu-devel-discuss
<cjwatson> mdz: right
<Keybuk> mdz: most of the people complaining know who to contact anyway ;)
<mdz> this concept isn't widely understood among users who are familiar with other distributions with a simpler package maintenance role
 * Keybuk suspects you're thinking of one individual, particularly
<mdz> Keybuk: not that I know of, I just see comments from time to time
<cjwatson> I didn't really want to have a full discussion about the Maintainer field; this is merely evolution of what we have in place right now, and if -devel-discuss is a problem then it's already a problem for main
<mdz> they email technical-board@ sometimes too
<mdz> cjwatson: fully +1 on ubuntu-motu -> ubuntu-devel-discuss
<Keybuk> +1 from me too
<cjwatson> what should we do with the broader discussion? action to revisit when we're closer to actually making the change, or something?
<Keybuk> "the broader discussion" being?
<cjwatson> it's not really a TB matter, but if -devel-discuss isn't being effective as a contact then it's obviously a problem
<mdz> I have no data either way
<mdz> only anecdotes
<mdz> there is very little content which I think is appropriate to send to Maintainer: rather than file as a bug
<mdz> LaserJock: what sorts of "contacting the Maintainer" emails does ubuntu-motu get?
<cjwatson> LaserJock: do the motu contacts generally end up being answered well?
<LaserJock> I wasn't trying to say that -devel-discuss shouldn't be used, I just know of a number of devs you aren't subscribed so I was wondering if it should be promoted more
<cjwatson> one thing I often get by various routes is questions about how to make some particular type of enhancement to a package
<cjwatson> which often certainly isn't material for a bug report and answers.lp is not really ideal either
<LaserJock> mdz: "please update package X" or "here's a fix for bug X" or "please fix bug X"
<cjwatson> e-mail is just fine for that, if it actually gets answered
<mdz> cjwatson: I'd say a mailing list is miles better than an individual for that
<cjwatson> LaserJock: now, *those* are definitely bug tracker material
<LaserJock> cjwatson: usually with a redirection to the appropriate place or a clarification of update procedures
<LaserJock> occasionally we do have Debian Maintainers using it I think
<cjwatson> mdz: right, by "I" I'm thinking of things I read on mailing lists
<LaserJock> I would just suggest that maybe -devel-discuss might need some promotion among MOTUs when it's changed over
<mdz> cjwatson: I think we can move on to the next topic of yours
<LaserJock> but having 1 address for Maintainer contacts would be helpful I think
<cjwatson> LaserJock: promotion> I agree; I'll note that in archivereorganisation/components
<Keybuk> cjwatson: ok, next? :)
<cjwatson> my next "simplest" topic was security support
<cjwatson> there is a policy question here
<cjwatson> right now our security team concentrates effort on main, and universe is a best-effort kind of thing
<cjwatson> I don't think they're going to want to offer full security support for everything, just on workload grounds
<cjwatson> what package sets do they offer elevated security support for?
<cjwatson> (perhaps in terms of products)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I think that's a decision left to the Security team(s)
<mdz> cjwatson: the ones corresponding to the seeds for first-tier products
<cjwatson> is it? I thought it was higher-level than that
<cjwatson> mdz: specifically? Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu server, UNR, obviously - how about Kubuntu?
<Keybuk> my understanding right now is that the security team use the seeds to decide
<mdz> cjwatson: yes (same as they do now)
<cjwatson> actually I'm slightly confused about the status of UNR here, since I think some of it is still in universe
<jdstrand> not directly, we look at what binaries are in main
<mdz> cjwatson: er, it is?
<cjwatson>    maximus | 0.4.8-0ubuntu3 | karmic/universe | source, amd64, i386
<persia> There's been no specific effort to put UNR in main.
<persia> So anything not in main for other reasons is still in universe.
<mdz> cjwatson: that's a bug
<cjwatson> mdz: all well and good, but leaves me confused about status if the security team is currently working with main
<cjwatson> jdstrand: what products do you believe you support?
<jdstrand> basically, we'll use rmadison (or our own lpmad) and see if the source is in main. if it is and a vuln affects a binary from that source, we see if it is in main. if the binary is in main, we are responsible, if not, we are not
<cjwatson> in the full awareness that this is probably a thorny topic, how about the education edition? bits of that are still in main
<LaserJock> cjwatson: it's all in Main, and kees has done some work
<cjwatson> so IMO the reorganisation is an opportunity to regularise this and make it easier to say to users that particular Ubuntu-based products/flavours/whatever are supported or they are not
<LaserJock> i.e. Moodle
<cjwatson> LaserJock: mm, yes
<jdstrand> I'm not sure we are the ones to decide, cause 'support' sort is blurred between security support and Canonical support
<jdstrand> at least in how I see it discussed
<mdz> jdstrand: leave Canonical support out of it; we're talking "maintenance" here
<jdstrand> of course, we'll certainly want input! ;)
 * jdstrand nods
<cjwatson> sorry, yes, I should have said maintained not supported
<mdz> cjwatson: if the question is which packages the Canonical security team considers their highest priority, then I think we can make that a Canonical question rather than a TB question
<mdz> cjwatson: from a TB perspective, anyone is welcome to provide updates for anything they like
<cjwatson> mdz: yes, my question is which packages the Canonical security team considers high-priority
<cjwatson> do you want me to raise this with you/somebody-else(who?) by mail?
<mdz> cjwatson: ok, let's take that offline then, we should involve some Canonical stakeholders anyway
<Keybuk> mdz: indeed, from my POV when I first proposed doing this, the point was to make it easier for community teams to provide support or maintenance to the archive on an equal footing to Canonical
<Keybuk> cjwatson: ok, the last item?
<jdstrand> mdz: sorry if I am just catching up, but are you saying that whatever packages are considered 'officially maintained' can be updated in a stable release by anyone with upload rights to the package after reorg?
<mdz> jdstrand: I think I'm saying that the reorg doesn't change much here; our maintenance policy should be more or less the same on a package-by-package basis
<cjwatson> jdstrand: at that level, there is no change to the rules; uploads to -security would still require vetting
<mdz> but Colin has pointed out that we haven't defined that very rigorously and need to clean it up
<jdstrand> ok
<cjwatson> jdstrand: but since we can no longer say "everything in main is maintained" (since post-reorg nearly everything will be in "main"), we need a better definition
 * jdstrand nods
<cjwatson> my last item is to get general consensus on a process for approving the creation of new package sets, which is a responsibility that will rest with the TB
<cjwatson> dholbach made a suggestion, which I'll paste here:
<cjwatson> As Package Set creation will result in significant amount of work and organisation, we want to ensure the request is reasonable. All these decisions will be subject to TB approval. Requests for new package sets should be discussed in TB meetings and be accompanied withe following data:
<cjwatson>     * Name of the package set
<cjwatson>     * Purpose of the package set
<cjwatson>     * Expected packages: ... (at least 5)
<cjwatson>     * Expected developers working on the set: ... (at least 2(?))
<cjwatson>     *
<cjwatson>       Canonical Supported (if so, follow new equivalent of MainInclusionProcess)
<cjwatson>     * Is the set likely to grow, change?
<cjwatson> We want to make sure:
<cjwatson>     * The software is well-maintained,
<cjwatson>     * There's a clearly defined purpose of the package set and no uncontrolled wild growth,
<cjwatson>     * There's no other convenient way of satisfying developers to work on this.
<cjwatson> I actually think we can be a little less strict than that, because package sets should be a fairly lightweight thing; for example I see no problem in creating a package set for the printing packages that Till has been approved to work on, even if it's just Till
<Keybuk> right, the most obvious thing from my mind was that "Canonical Supported" need not be in that process at all
<Keybuk> Canonical should follow its own process for deciding what it will and will not support
<Keybuk> which pretty much ties into the answer to the previous question
<cjwatson> largely agreed, although I think it is in Canonical's interests to define what it supports in terms of package sets
<cjwatson> but there is certainly no need to deal with that at package set creation time
<Keybuk> the number of expected developers or packages don't really seem useful, and I'd expect any set to evolve over time
<Keybuk> it strikes me that we need a set of bullet points like
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#CoreDev
<Keybuk> but for package sets
<Keybuk> though those bullet points are possibly contentious as well
<mdz> cjwatson: it seems logical to deal with it at package set creation time, though the person requesting the new package set shouldn't have to worry about that
<cjwatson> in what circumstances would we delegate the authority to manage package sets?
<Keybuk> the first one precludes a package set of badly maintained software that a team decides to care for
<mdz> cjwatson: I don't think I can answer that question properly until I/we have more experience working with them
<cjwatson> by which I mean to add or remove particular packages to or from a set
<Keybuk> and the third is a bit odd, since only the way that developers can work on things is through package sets
<mdz> I think this is a case where we should have everything come to the TB at first so that we can work out what's appropriate and delegate from there
<cjwatson> ok, that's fine by me
<mdz> this also means we don't need to decide all of the criteria up front
<cjwatson> well
<mdz> we should go through a few of these (maybe use our existing package sets to trial the process) and see what matters
<cjwatson> I expect that we will want to delegate quite a lot to ubuntu-archive
<cjwatson> since people aren't going to stop changing the seeds, or changing dependencies, and operationally life will need to go on
<dholbach> the reason I came up with the requirements that cjwatson quoted was to make sure that the need for the package set is evident and will not be dropped and forgotten after the request was granted - but if you think otherwise that's fine with me
<mdz> dholbach: I agree it's a good idea to vet new package sets
<cjwatson> as I discussed with dholbach last week, to some extent I view package sets as a macro facility
<mdz> I'm just unsure that we should block on agreeing how we'll do the vetting
<LaserJock> do new packages to a package set need to be approved by the TB? (something along the lines of a MIR)
<LaserJock> *to an existing package set
<cjwatson> LaserJock: that was where my comment about ubuntu-archive came in
<cjwatson> moving packages between package sets is analogous to component moves, IMO
<cjwatson> at least to start with
<cjwatson> there are two questions about delegating authority for package sets, which need to be thought of separately: one is adding/removing packages to the set; the other is managing the set of people who can upload packages in that set
<cjwatson> I think we should delegate the former to ubuntu-archive for the time being; mdz, Keybuk, do you agree?
<mdz> cjwatson: yes
<Keybuk> yes I agree
<cjwatson> the latter is equivalent to granting upload privileges, and that's a more complicated question
<cjwatson> rather, granting the ability to grant upload privileges
<mdz> cjwatson: so what do you need in order to move forward?
<cjwatson> if nobody has any firm ideas there, I'd be happy to say that the TB will continue to be the only body able to grant upload privileges for the time being, and that we will decide on delegation once we have more experience with package sets
<cjwatson> knowing that you are not concerned about defining criteria for new package sets up-front is useful information in itself
<persia> So, MC should push all applications to TB for final review after collecting the information?
<mdz> cjwatson: I have only general ideas; I think the decision should take into account the packages, people and products involved, the upload permission changes which would result, etc.
<cjwatson> Keybuk's suggestion of something like UbuntuDevelopment#CoreDev strikes me as a good one
<cjwatson> persia: what kind of applications? new developer applications?
<persia> Yes.
<mdz> the creation of a new package set is essentially delegating upload privileges for a set of packages, right?
<cjwatson> mdz: in the general case, yes, but I believe we will start out by having each new package set owned by the TB
<mdz> what sort of controls will be in place for adding new packages to a set, to avoid unexpected changes in upload permissions?
<cjwatson> hm, or possibly by ubuntu-archive+TB
<LaserJock> is there a definition of what a package set should be used for? like, should be it be used to create a product/metapackage or is carving out maintenance teams OK as well?
<cjwatson> LaserJock: both
<cjwatson> LaserJock: ArchiveReorganisation on the wiki has more details
<mdz> LaserJock: basically, any situation where a group of packages should have different governance
<dholbach> regarding package set creation: is "add list of initial packages and uploaders to TB agenda" enough for a process right now?
<dholbach> mdz: as I see it adding a package set won't change upload permissions of others that can already upload those packages
<cjwatson> dholbach: change permissions> that is correct
<mdz> dholbach: AFAIC, yes
<persia> Well, except in the case of the creation of a restricted package set.
<cjwatson> dholbach: process> I think that's what I'm hearing, yes
<mdz> dholbach: (that was to your first question...yes that is enough of a process, in my opinion)
<cjwatson> and we will deal with anything more that arises case-by-case, for no
<cjwatson> w
<cjwatson> that concludes my questions
<dholbach> OK great, I'll make a note to make sure it's documented somewhere once we move to the new process
<mdz> any other business?
 * mdz eagerly anticipates an on-time conclusion
<cjwatson> dholbach: no need, I'll take an action to do it on archivereorganisation/permissions
<Keybuk> mdz: hey, who's chair? :)
 * dholbach hugs cjwatson
<Keybuk> AOB?
<persia> One more note on ArchiveReorg: with karmic underway, is this only waiting process definition, or will it likely be delayed until new archive open to avoid mid-cycle confusion?
<Keybuk> no, good
<Keybuk> thanks all
<cjwatson> persia: the former; since we're only doing permissions this cycle, it doesn't need to be synced
<persia> cjwatson, Thanks for the confirmation.
 * mathiaz waves
<sommer> o//
 * pschulz01 waves hello.
<ttx> \o
<mathiaz> if the Technical Board meeting is over, let's get the Server team started
<zul> heylo
 * RoAkSoAx saluda :)
<kirkland> mathiaz: o/
<mathiaz> all right - let's get started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:06. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nealmcb> <o>
<mathiaz> today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> last week minutes:
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090428
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] High Availability Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  High Availability Team
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: how is this going?
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: IIUC the ubuntu-ha team has been created
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, well the team has been created: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ha
<RoAkSoAx> we've setup a wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHighAvailabilityTeam and #ubuntu-ha
<nijaba> o/
<RoAkSoAx> many people have join, however they seem not to be participating in the mailing list yet
<RoAkSoAx> here's a list of packages that we'll work on: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ha/+packagebugs
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: great - that seems like a very good start
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: you may wanna send an email to ubuntu-ha@ to explain what is the goal for the next few weeks
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, yes, I already send an email for some feedback on clustering tools, but nobody has answered yet, i guess i'll resend it
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx:  ie trying to get a handle on the bugs related to the ubuntu-ha packages
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, regarding on our goals, we are working on it with ivoks
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: great - start small
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: once you get things rolling you can think about greater things
<RoAkSoAx> indeed, step by step
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: great - it seems that you're getting started
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: and already have the first task (bug triaging) figured out
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: it seems to be in good hands :)
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: anything else related to the ubuntu ha team?
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, yes, and I requested motu mentoring and ivoks is my mentor... so we are gonna work together on packaging
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, and that's about it
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: great - once you've get a handle on the bugs, you'll have a better picture of what can be fixed in the packages
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: ivoks will be able to sponsor most of the fixes in the packages
<RoAkSoAx> awesome
<mathiaz> great - let's move on
<mathiaz> another related item: wiki pages
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: ^^?
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: did you get a chance to review the Ubuntu community wiki pages?
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, yes I've identified some howto's such as setting up HA NFS server, HA Apache servers
<RoAkSoAx> I just identified 4 howto's related to HA
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: great - did you have time to review them?
<ivoks> sorry for being late
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, yes, one is old, the others are kinda good, but personally, if there's a plan to include them in the server guide somday, i think we'll first consider howto's on how to setup the HA tools rather than services
<RoAkSoAx> but they look good
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: ok - seems like this topic could be a discussion for the ubuntu-ha@ mailing list
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, k
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: which documentation could be useful and gather the ideas under the Ideas section on the wiki page
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: may be someone will have time to write a wiki page about it
<mathiaz> ok - anything else related to the Ubuntu HA team?
<mathiaz> ivoks: ^^?
<ivoks> nothing much, we just started
<mathiaz> ivoks: agreed - and it seems that there is already a plan in place (bug triaging)
<mathiaz> it looks good then :)
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Features for karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  Features for karmic
<mathiaz> we're in full swing for UDS preparation
<mathiaz> if you have ideas that needs to be discussed register a blueprint in LP
<mathiaz> Its name should start with server-karmic-
<mathiaz> and should be proposed for the Karmic sprint
<pschulz01> o/
<mathiaz> pschulz01: sure - ?
<nealmcb>  I was curious who put up the webmail item in the open discussion item of our agenda.  I tracked it down and added some attributions to the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting  But I guess the poster (mpathy) isn't around....
<dendrobates> mathiaz: could we name them server-karmic-community-*
<mathiaz> nealmcb: right - it's a leftover from last week
<ivoks> er...
<ivoks> dendrobates: that sounds... wierd
<pschulz01> I'm going through the dovecot-postfix install.. but are there any plans for a postfix-mailman ?
<dendrobates> mathiaz: I've alreadyt reviewed the others and don't want to miss any community ones.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: ah ok.
<ScottK> Last time we looked at webmail in Main (Hardy, IIRC) there wasn't a 'good' webmail package that the security team was willing to have in Main.
<pschulz01> (or is there a prefered alternative list management software?)
<dendrobates> ivoks: I'm fine with any naming scheme that lets me find them.
<ivoks> dendrobates: hehe ok
<mathiaz> dendrobates: right - it's hard to figure out the new ones from the one you've already reviewed and rejected?
<mathiaz> ScottK: right - IIRC there is a blueprint about that
<mathiaz> so the webmail discussion should probably be taking place during UDS
<dendrobates> I haven't rejected any.
<pschulz01> otherwise I'll put together a blueprint.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: and yes.
<mathiaz> meanwhile additional research can be done
<mathiaz> with the results added to the wiki page
<ivoks> i was planing on webmail inside general mail related discussion
<mathiaz> pschulz01: ^^ it seems that your proposal would fit in this topic
<nealmcb> ScottK: do you recall any specific security feedback on horde ingo that you can pass on to mpathy?
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - make sure a blueprint is created for that
<ivoks> horde, as squirrelmail are... well, ugly
<ivoks> :)
<ScottK> nealmcb: I don't recall what packages we discussed.  It was quite a while ago.
<pschulz01> mathiaz: Agreed
<ivoks> mathiaz: i will
<pschulz01> ivoks: +1
<zul> whoa...squrrelmail there is a flashback
<mathiaz> dendrobates: when will a draft of the schedule be available?
<dendrobates> mathiaz: at some point, yes.  I'll find out when.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: IIRC last time we got the first draft way too late
<mathiaz> and lack time to get prepared
<mathiaz> dendrobates: or is there a least of accepted blueprints?
<nealmcb> ScottK: do you remember where the hardy webmail conversation took place?
<mathiaz> dendrobates: so that the list of topics to be discussed is known (even if we don't know when)?
<ScottK> nealmcb: It was in the server team room when we were doing the big discussion about lists of packages to add to Main.
<nealmcb> so at uds
<ivoks> in boston?
<ScottK> Yes
<ivoks> yes, we concluded that roundcube was too insecure
<ivoks> kees said that :)
<ScottK> Recent events have not caused me to revise that opinion.
<mathiaz> IIRC there was a wiki page covering this discussion
<mathiaz> anyway we can research things in preparation for a UDS discussion
<ScottK> Just whoever is researching should have a good argumenat why the security team shouldn't faint at the prosepect.
 * jdstrand is poised to faint
 * nealmcb gets out the smelling salts
<ivoks> all webmails are security problems
<mathiaz> allright - anything else related to blueprints and UDS preparation?
<ivoks> err... make that 'all php webmails are security problems'
<nealmcb> ivoks: is the word "webmail" necessary there?
<ivoks> nealmcb: not really
<Pres-Gas> alpine web version?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on
<mathiaz> and defer the php security discussion to another forum
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Merges
<MootBot> New Topic:  Merges
<mathiaz> Now that the karmic repostories are open for general consumption, we're focusing on merges
<mathiaz> Merge-O-Matic is your friend
<mathiaz> https://merges.ubuntu.com/
<kirkland> merge, merge, merge if you want to make MOTU ;-)
<RoAkSoAx> where can we find a list of merges related only to the server team?
<mathiaz> there are lists of outstanding packages for all the components
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: I'll work on this one again
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, ok cool :)
<ivoks> RoAkSoAx did a good job with drbd merge
<mathiaz> If you don't have upload privileges, prepare a merge and use the sponsorship process
<kirkland> i owe RoAkSoAx a review of QEMU
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<RoAkSoAx> indeed
<ivoks> kirkland: bug number? i'm his mentor :)
<kirkland> ivoks: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/+bug/371879
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 371879 in qemu "Please merge qemu 0.10.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<kirkland> ivoks: be my guest :-)
<ivoks> tnx
<mathiaz> As kirkland just mentionned, merging is a good way to get packaging experience to get MOTU status
<mathiaz> There is also an overview of what merging is about: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<mathiaz> And there should be some wiki pages having practical examples of merging packages
<mathiaz> IIRC there were a couple of sessions given about Mergin package during the previous Ubuntu Developers Week.
<mathiaz> Any question related to the merging process?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on then
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
<mathiaz> Anything else to add?
<Pres-Gas> o/
<mathiaz> Pres-Gas: sure - ?
<Pres-Gas> I thought I saw meeting minutes regarding the openchange mapi plugins...has then I did not see anything more after release.  Is the server team the go-to on that now or another team?
<Pres-Gas> I would love to help out.
 * Pres-Gas is quickly looking for those minutes...
<mathiaz> Pres-Gas: are you refering to the mapi plugins for evolution?
<ivoks> i couldn't test openchange mapi in evolution cause of environment... it was firewalled or something...
 * pschulz01 thinks it wass about 6 weeks ago.
<Pres-Gas> mathiaz: evolution-mapi
<Pres-Gas> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fubuntuserver.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F03%2F10%2Fserver-team-20090310-meeting-minutes%2F&ei=bF8ASo38C-qElAfbwbDlBw&usg=AFQjCNHXrSllChNHE6y_EDItBnOt-H8RnA
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fubuntuserver.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F03%2F10%2Fserver-team-20090310-meeting-minutes%2F&ei=bF8ASo38C-qElAfbwbDlBw&usg=AFQjCNHXrSllChNHE6y_EDItBnOt-H8RnA
<Pres-Gas> ahhhh
<Pres-Gas> sorry
<Pres-Gas> http://osdir.com/ml/ubuntu-server/2009-03/msg00030.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://osdir.com/ml/ubuntu-server/2009-03/msg00030.html
<Pres-Gas> Better
<mathiaz> Pres-Gas: right - we were looking for testers
<mathiaz> Pres-Gas: seb128 is looking after the evolution package
<Pres-Gas> ivoks, I may have an environment suitable for testing.  Exchange 2007 ADS on server 2008
<mathiaz> Pres-Gas: however he doesn't have access to an exchange environement
<mathiaz> Pres-Gas: thus we were looking for testers that have access to such an environement
<james_w> Pres-Gas: jelmer packages evolution-mapi, samba4, openchange etc., so you could email him if you want to help out on that side
<mathiaz> Pres-Gas: If you have access to such an environemnt testing new versions of the plugin would be helpful
<Pres-Gas> Hmmm...I think I saw seb128's page in launchpad.  I may be able to get access to a test account in our environment...I will talk to my resources and get with those people.
<Pres-Gas> I do support at a University and we have gotten a number of contacts regarding this
<mathiaz> Pres-Gas: great - if you can get a test account and conduct some testing of the development version of the plugin that would be helpful
<Pres-Gas> I will get with jelmer and seb128
<mathiaz> Pres-Gas: great
<mathiaz> anything else?
<Pres-Gas> Thanks, I was not sure if it was appropriate...it is the server team and I only saw one mention of it in the minutes
<mathiaz> all right - if there isn't anything else, time to wrap up
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week, same time, same place?
<ivoks> +
<sommer> +1 :_)
<mathiaz> great - so see you all in one week, same place, same time
<mathiaz> in the mean time have fun with merging packages from debian into karmic
<mathiaz> see you all
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:59.
<bradf> YO!
 * manjo waves
<amitk> sup
<cooloney> cooloney stand up
 * rtg is here
 * cking is here
<manjo> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is manjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<manjo> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
 * apw phases in
<manjo> [TOPIC] New Starters
<MootBot> New Topic:  New Starters
<manjo> Please welcome John Johansen (jjojansen) to the Ubuntu Kernel Team.
<apw> welcome!
<cooloney> welcome, jjohansen
<jjohansen> thanks good to be here
<amitk> welcome jjohansen
<manjo> [TOPIC] Open Action Items - ogasawara smb apw to discuss regression lists
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items - ogasawara smb apw to discuss regression lists
<smb> Keep us reminding
<apw> i think we have basically decided to take this as a UDS action ...
<ogasawara> apw, smb: prolly best to just UDS it
<apw> ack
<rtg> duck and cover :)
<smb> Yeah, I think we agreed more or less last week to go for that
<manjo> [ACTION] apw smb ogasawara arrange UDS session on regression
<MootBot> ACTION received:  apw smb ogasawara arrange UDS session on regression
<manjo> [TOPIC] Open Action Items - pgraner to schedule a UDS session for X lockup bug squashing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items - pgraner to schedule a UDS session for X lockup bug squashing
<manjo> pgraner, ?
<pgraner> manjo: On the list of BP's I'm doing today and tomorrow
<manjo> k. moving on..
<manjo> [TOPIC] Open Action Items - manjo to deep dive on suspend/resume bugs to find patterns
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items - manjo to deep dive on suspend/resume bugs to find patterns
<manjo> Wrote a script to fetch Lspci.txt and other attachments to suspend/resume bugs, wrote a script to find common HW (Video, Network, SATA/RAID/IDE controllers), looked through the subset of bugs containing most commonly used hardware. Found that 26 bugs use rtl8187 module. This module is found to cause resume problems. If the module is removed before suspend, resume works fine. Need to dup/mass comment these bus. Continuing to look for similar patterns
<manjo> during spare cycles.
<manjo> any thoughts ?
<apw> manjo, thats a good start
<amitk> rtl8187 is ethernet?
<manjo> yes
<manjo> realtech
<cooloney> is it wired or wireless?
<bradf> manjo, share your scripts :)
<rtg> manjo: how nVidia? Any correlation?
<manjo> bradf, k
<smb> cooloney, I think it is wired
<cooloney> bradf, agree,
<manjo> rtg, I have a list of most commonly used/reported HW I can post that on a wiki
<manjo> with counts
<manjo> is there any interest in seeing something like this ?
<rtg> manjo: that would be of interest, perhaps blurt it on the k-t list?
<ogasawara> manjo: if you have it already, I'd like to see it
<manjo> [ACTION] manjo to blurt list of HW On k-t
<MootBot> ACTION received:  manjo to blurt list of HW On k-t
<manjo> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty
<manjo> smb, apw ?
<smb> Jaunty: proposed kernel uploaded
<smb> 2.6.28-12.43
<smb> waiting the quarantaine time and them move to updates to be ready for the stable update
<manjo> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Intrepid
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Intrepid
<smb> Intrepid: latest proposed has moved to updates
<manjo> smb what are you doing with the continuing flood of 2.6.27.y updates?
<smb> We have quite some stable updates which wont get into the default kernel now
<smb> I have started to have a topic branch for them
<smb> I need to test compile and then would push it as is
<amitk> so you will still take wholesale .y updates?
<smb> amitk, No
<smb> Not for Intrepid anymore
<smb> This will just be a topic branch for interested parties
<smb> If there is a real fix required this has to be picked manually
<amitk> aah, so you won't upload it, just maintain it in git
<smb> amitk, Correct
<rtg> what do you think about building it alongside mainline in the kernel-ppa ?
<apw> rtg that would be feasable
<smb> I still have to think a bit about the naming scheme for that
<smb> probably like the upstream kernels
<rtg> k, perhaps a quick chat at UDS.
<apw> we would want some kind of tags for those ...
<apw> a good idea
<bradf> didn't I see there there won't be any further updates to .28 but there will be more for .27?
<smb> bradf, Yes, as novel (greg) uses that ...
<rtg> manjo: note the action item. schedule a session for end-of-life stable update kernels.
<bradf> smb, android also
<smb> We had been thinking of stepping up as 2.6.28 but it might be a big leap for a start
<manjo> [ACTION] smb schedule a session for end-of-life stable update kernels.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smb schedule a session for end-of-life stable update kernels.
<pgraner> bradf: android is already there and I just added the EOL session
<smb> pgraner, thanks
<manjo> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Hardy
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Hardy
<manjo> smb, ?
<smb> Hardy also has moved to updates now with the latest proposed kenrel
<smb> So we are open to start new proposed rounds for hardy and intrepid as things are comming in
<manjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Status - Alpha-1 may 14th
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Status - Alpha-1 may 14th
<manjo> rtg, ?
<rtg> Karmic is on track. I've only to upload linux-meta to complete the first upload requirements.
<rtg> There is some ongoing discussion re LRM
<rtg> I'd like nothing more then to drop it.
<rtg> So, its the only outstanding item.
<apw> are we going to be able to squash it with netbooks not having tool chains for dkms?
<amitk> is broadcom shipped in any of the OEM engagements?
<pgraner> rtg: +1 on the LRM dropping
<rtg> Broadcom is, of course, the major sticking point.
<pgraner> rtg: can we keep LRM for the OEM tree only?
<awe> rtg: ;/
<rtg> I expect a healthy discussion on the k-t list
<rtg> pgraner: that is one possiblitiy
<awe> amitk: broadcom is on almost all of the big projects.  ;(
<rtg> manjo: thats all I have on Karmic.
<pgraner> rtg: we have time in the general kernel discussion track at UDS with this topic
<manjo> [TOPIC] ARM Tree - Status ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Tree - Status ?
<bradf> nothing new from me
<bradf> looking into android
<amitk> Just talking to upstream about upstreaming the imx51
<manjo> [TOPIC] LPIA Tree - Status ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  LPIA Tree - Status ?
<rtg> amitk: it build for Karmic, but will it run?
<sconklin> new release today incorporating jim and apw's debug changes
<amitk> rtg: I'll try it out soonish
<cooloney> i'm preparing a babbage demo for ARM seminar next week in Beijing
<sconklin> Expect a rebase in the next week to the current distro hardy
<manjo> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs - Regressions ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs - Regressions ?
<ogasawara> I'd gone through the regression-tracker list for unassigned linux bugs but none had been confirmed against Jaunty final so I've asked for testing and feedback.
<lieb> is there a need for debug on hardy-lum lpia too?
<ogasawara> Other than that I'm still making my way through a backlog of New bugs for regressions, but nothing major so far.
<manjo> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs - Bug day report ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs - Bug day report ?
<ogasawara> manjo: I've also got some stats . . .
<ogasawara> Kernel Team (220 total bugs)
<ogasawara> ============================
<ogasawara> Fix Released = 19
<ogasawara> Fix Committed = 7
<ogasawara> Won't Fix = 52
<ogasawara> Invalid = 12
<ogasawara> Reassigned = 1
<sconklin> lieb: good question, I'll ask smagoun
<ogasawara> In Progress = 6
<ogasawara> Triaged = 17
<ogasawara> Confirmed = 8
<ogasawara> Incomplete = 81
<ogasawara> New = 17
<ogasawara> Community (50 total bugs)
<ogasawara> =========================
<ogasawara> Won't Fix = 16
<ogasawara> Invalid = 1
<ogasawara> Incomplete = 33
<apw> ogasawara, who did the community ones... the ones i peeked at (not all) seemed to be bradf
<bradf> apw, me
<bradf> apw, i've not made it through all of them though
<apw> i'd not have expected you to either!  just wondering if we had had any input outside the team
<manjo> ogasawara, anything else ?
<ogasawara> manjo: nope
<manjo> [TOPIC] Open discussion - Anyone ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion - Anyone ?
<bradf> apw, I didn't see anything happening with them so just went for it
<apw> bradf not complaining :)
<ogasawara> apw: I'm going to try to ping some individuals personally for the next one
<smb> Definitely not :)
<cking> ogasawara, great!
<manjo> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair Selection
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair Selection
<rtg> don't everyone speak at once.
<apw> we need a rota
<rtg> I'm wondering if its worth having these meetings until after UDS?
<cooloney> sorry, i will travel to beijing at that time, although i do like to host the meeting
<rtg> we've got a lot pending on UDS sessions.
<smb> Likely the week after next we are busy with our hands
<apw> well we are adding new sessions from this meeting, but we could likely do so elsewhere
<manjo> there is just one more Tue in between now and UDS
<rtg> ok, lets do next week, then cancel until after UDS?
<manjo> I can do next week
<apw> deal
<rtg> sounds good. lets do that
<smb> ack
<bradf> +1
<cking> +1
<lieb> +1
<manjo> [ACTION] manjo chairs meeting next week
<cooloney> support
<MootBot> ACTION received:  manjo chairs meeting next week
<rtg> done?
<manjo> anyone ?
<manjo> anything else ?
<apw> done here
<manjo> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:29.
<cking> complete!
<smb> \o/
<cooloney> great
<amitk> bye
<knome> i suppose there is still no EMEA regional board meeting?
<popey> hi knome
<popey> i am trying to clarify this
<knome> ok? :)
 * popey pokes Seveas Pricey stgraber 
<Pricey> Hey
<stgraber> hey
<popey> look up :)
<stgraber> sorry, was with a customer :)
<stgraber> well, I thought it was today (reason why I sent a mail to the list) :)
 * popey hopes we'll be quorate
 * popey pokes Pricey stgraber Seveas 
<popey> I've missed someone havent I
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-membership-board-emea/+members#active
<knome> :P
<popey> heh
<Pricey> popey: Hey
<popey> phanatic markvendenborre forumsmatthew are missing
<knome> /nick knomey
<popey> not looking promising
<knome> never is when i am available
<knome> never since december
<knome> ...it's like the regional boards wasn't working as good as they should *cough*
<czajkowski> hard to find a date and time that is going to suit to get as many people as you need I guess.
<popey> :(
<popey> sorry guys, i know its frustrating
<knome> the board is like 8 guys
<popey> well, we dont all need to be here
<knome> and you only need quorum which would be, like, 5 people
<czajkowski> aye, it's all good, not the end of the world
 * popey hugs czajkowski 
<knome> and they have had a meeting like once in 6 months
<czajkowski> cheers ;)
<knome> even if announced to be more often
<czajkowski> knome: that would take a long time to get through seeing as someone them take a long time.
<Mean-Machine> czajkowski, we'll still be here to cheer for you next time! \o/
<czajkowski> would also be very noisey
<czajkowski> Mean-Machine: cheers
<knome> popey, it's ok, just wanted to let you know also
<popey> i understand knome
<popey> completely
<knome> and it's a problematic situation
<knome> for both sides
 * ebel puts away his pompoms
<popey> haha
<popey> they suit you ebel
<ebel> *\o/*
<knome> i even talked with mdke and he promised even to ask the CC for approve people to members, but haven't heard nothing since
<knome> not that i should receive special attention... ;)
<czajkowski> ebel: next -ie event you bring them along to cheer at, how's that
<popey> i will contact the team and see if we can organise a meeting for one evening next week
<Shane_Fagan> So is it definitely not going ahead??
<Mean-Machine> czajkowski, ebel will bring them to geeknic :D
<popey> and will update the wiki to reflect it
<ebel> (note to self: Going to need to get some pompoms by next -ie meeting)
<popey> Shane_Fagan: well, we're not enough people unfortunately
<knome> i truely hope i can attend it
<ebel> Mean-Machine: I'll be in Monte Carlo instead of geeknic, sorry :P
<Mean-Machine> ebel, do you still live in EIRE?
<Mean-Machine> :P
<czajkowski> popey: coolio, and thanks
<ebel> Mean-Machine: More than 50% of the time. :P
<popey> Really sorry guys.
<popey> (and gals)
<czajkowski> hehe
<czajkowski> thanks
<joskulj> it would be really great if the next meetings would be announced on the wiki page since I don't think that I can attend next week. Thanks for this.
<popey> yeah, will update it
 * czajkowski guesses popey's to do list just got very long this evening 
<popey> hah
<popey> it happens
<joskulj> Great, I'll probably would try to attend in June if there is a meeting
<czajkowski> popey: trick is to tick them off the to do list, or even better delegate :D
<popey> czajkowski: i have a job for you
<czajkowski> oh dear
<popey> ;0
<czajkowski> how can I help?
<popey> J/K
<czajkowski> heh ok
<cody-somerville> moo
<popey> moo indeed
<Mean-Machine> oiche mhaith
<Technoviking> anyone here for the CC meeting?
 * elmo o/
<Technoviking> Anyone have any question or comments for us?
<cody-somerville> Yes
<cody-somerville> "<knome> cody-somerville, the emea regional board meeting cancelled once again as there is not enough people..."
<knome> .
<cody-somerville> Oh, looks like knome is here to speak for himself :)
<knome> i just wanted to raise to your knowledge that the regional board meetings haven't happened as many times as they should have
<knome> due to scheduling i haven't been able to be available at all times but whatsoever i have waited my membership approval meeting since december
<elmo> knome: have you raised this as a concern with the emea regional board?
<knome> and i have even tried the asia/oceania board once, but it was cancelled as well as there was not enough board members available (even if announced on the wiki 2 weeks in advance)
<knome> elmo, i have spoken with mdke and also noted this to popey today.
<elmo> knome: what did they say?
<knome> elmo, mdke said he would investigate, popey was sorry, but couldn't do anything.
<popey> i didnt say that
<popey> i said i would try to get a meeting organised for 1 week today
<popey> which i have already mailed the team about
<knome> popey, you said you were sorry. i did not mean you said you could not do anything. sorry for being unclear.
<popey> i appreciate this doesn't help you today.
<knome> *i said
<knome> popey, i understand.
<elmo> knome: it sounds like the EMEA board appreciate your concerns and are trying to respond to them?
<knome> elmo, after six months, yes.
<elmo> knome: did you raise these concerns 6 months ago?
<popey> it has not been six months since the last meeting
<popey> we had one last month
<knome> elmo, my concern is about this happens too much (meetings are scheduled but not enough people turn out)
<knome> popey, i know, but due to my personal scheduling i could not attend it.
<popey> so you understand the issue occurs on both sides
<popey> we all have personal lives
<knome> popey, totally.
<knome> but once the meeting is announced and the people in the board have agreed on the time, i don't see how this can happen many times in a row.
<popey> fact is we did have a meeting last month and rattled through many on the list
<popey> it hasnt happened many times in a row
<popey> as i said, we had a meeting last month
<knome> persia also noted that they have the same problem with the asia/oceania board
<Shane_Fagan> Maybe make the boards bigger?
<popey> its certainly an issue, and one that perhaps needs to be raised with the cc
<knome> popey, i haven't been able to join 2 meetings in 6 monts
<popey> you're erroding your own argument knome
<popey> by saying that its unacceptable for us to not attend, and then not attend yourself
<knome> popey, if the board had met once in a month, i've had 4 possibilities already
<knome> popey, as i said, i understand the problem is on both sides
<popey> well there's 3 boards, and nothing stopping you adding your name to the other board lists
<knome> popey, but i hope it would be possible to do something on the side *who decides the meeting times*
<knome> popey, i can't stay awake 24 hours in a day and i have to make my living.
<popey> as do members of the boards
<elmo> ok, so.
<elmo> how about this.
<knome> popey, but if i understand correctly, you can decide on the days?
<elmo> knome: since you're concerned about this, would you be willing to do either or both of the following:
<elmo>  1) come up with a report of the meetings of the membership boards have managed over the last say, 6 months
<popey> knome: how else does the date get decided other than by consensus of those on the board?
<elmo>  2) start a conversation with the boards, to see if they believe there's a problem in terms of regular meetings and/or ability for people to make meetings (on either side)
<popey> I completely agree that there is an issue
<popey> not sure what the solution is
<elmo> knome: and then feed that info back to the CC list?
<knome> popey, no way else. but as you can affect on they days, i suppose you have thought if you can attend the meetings or not and reschedule
<popey> knome: well for at least one meeting I was delayed due to train failure
<popey> I'm sure other members also have reasons for not attending
<knome> popey, i think that was the one i unfortunately missed as well
<popey> this is why we have a large team, so we can be quorate without everyone attending
<mc44> perhaps the approvals could be made asynchronous, the majority of substantiation/support seems to happen on the wiki page anyway
<knome> popey, maybe then update the wiki before the date?
<popey> knome: i will
<popey> knome: thanks for your feedback, its appreciated
<czajkowski> knome: you ahve to admit/understand dates clash, and even if there is a set date, things come up. Also the reason I would assume that there is 8 on the board is to allow for not having to have all 8 there, maybe a solution (i dont know if this has come up) would be to increase that number. but popey has said he'd look into it
<knome> czajkowski, of course i admit it.
<czajkowski> and elmo has offered you a construcrive route to take
<czajkowski> so why not try that in the mean time
<knome> czajkowski, making the board bigger would only lead to more people having to be there to be the quorum.
<czajkowski> knome: that is a downside, but you cant have it every way,
<knome> elmo, well i definitely have done 2 already, but if i have time i can also do 1.
<popey> I'd be happy if this issue was taken to teh cc
<popey> to allow us to get some idea of the problem globally
<Shane_Fagan> How about making like substitutes? You know like in football
<mc44> I'm not sure a quorum is actually intended to be a majority of each board.
<knome> so if that is the case, we might have had the meeting today.
<knome> i think we had 3 of 7 board members.
<knome> popey, are you willing to raise the issue up?
<popey> i am happy to raise the issue within the emea board
<elmo> knome: as somone who's concerned about the issue, I was hoping you'd be willing to escalate it
<knome> elmo, sure, but i have had the impression that there is not going to happen a lot of things if it's somebody from "outside" raising things up. i'd be happy to do that, though.
<knome> elmo, (didn't i already do that?)
<knome> :P
<elmo> knome: sure, you started.  I'm suggesting a way of moving it forward, that I think will be constructive
<popey> knome: the cc listen very carefully to issues like this, whether it's from someone "inside" or "outside" (whatever that means)
<elmo> popey++
<knome> popey, "A quorum of 3 or 4 people will be sufficient to hear a membership application."
<popey> yeah, we (emea board) have talked about that issue specifically
<popey> we've decided that 3 isnt enough
<knome> what is the outcome?
<knome> right. what's the rationale? (just curious)
<popey> but if we had a mandate that said we should go ahead with 3, possibly with email based confirmation from non-attendees then so be it
<popey> well, how low do you go?
<popey> is 1 enough?
<knome> totally not.
<popey> so why 3?
<popey> why not 2?
<knome> with 3 you can't go on a draw situation.
<knome> and it's almost half, as the board is 7 members.
<knome> 4 seems to be very difficult to gather anyways.
<popey> most quorates that I
<popey> gah, eee keyboard
<popey> most quorates that I'm aware of are more than 50%
<knome> me too, but 3/4 is what the original spec (by cc?) says
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StreamlineMembershipApproval
<popey> true
<knome> the idea about non-attendees voting by email afterwards actually sounds quite good.
<knome> then at least things would go forward
<popey> unfortunately you lose the Q&A
<knome> as the attendee board members would (hopefully) to be able to ask such questions that tells about the guy approving for membership
<knome> -to
<knome> that way the non-attendee members could decide by the log, or in some cases, ask for review in the next meeting.
<elmo> knome: in any event, I think we should take this discussion to email
<elmo> knome: there's only 2 CC and 1 EMEA member here tonight
<knome> elmo, ...exactly.
<elmo> knome: so will you do (1)/(2) above?  if not, that's fine, but it'd be nice to know, because if not, I'll see if someone else can
<elmo> if you will do (1)/(2) above, I'd suggest we'd leave further discussion to the resulting conversation from that
<knome> subjectively i have done enough of (2), i will mail the cc-list now.
<knome> (1)
<elmo> (2) did you speak to anyone besides the EMEA board?
<knome> elmo, i have spoken with mdke and persia.
<elmo> mk
<elmo> knome: thanks for raising the issue, I'll look forward to your email
<elmo> anything else from anyone else?
<knome> np.
<popey> thanks for the feedback knome
<knome> when can i have my membership? :P
<elmo> ok, if there's nothing else, I guess we'll call this meeting
<popey> thanks elmo
<knome> thanks
<nhandler> MOTU meeting is in 15 minutes
<nhandler> james_w: ping
 * james_w waves
<james_w> hey nhandler
<yvan300> hey all
<james_w> hi yvan300
<james_w> let's get this show on the road
<james_w> who is here?
<nhandler> james_w: Are we using MootBot? If so, do you want to chair?
<yvan300> has the meeting finished
<james_w> we could do
<james_w> yvan300: which one?
 * ajmitch is here
<yvan300> beginners
<james_w> yvan300: that's in an hour
<yvan300> oh ic
<james_w> hi ajmitch
<james_w> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:03. The chair is james_w.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * yvan300 takes a seat in the back
<james_w> yay, it worked
<ajmitch> now to see if there are enough people present
<james_w> ajmitch, nhandler: what did you think of the Jaunty cycle?
 * ajmitch had very little involvement with the jaunty cycle
<nhandler> james_w: Any apsect of it in particular?
<ajmitch> from what I could see at a distance it went without too many problems
<james_w> nhandler: what was your overall impression?
<james_w> is there anything in particular you would like to discuss?
<nhandler> james_w: I think one of the biggest issues was the whole notification system
<nhandler> However, I think most of that has been discussed elseware
<james_w> [TOPIC] notification system
<MootBot> New Topic:  notification system
<james_w> is there anything related to MOTU that we should discuss about that do you think?
<nhandler> james_w: Not really. Most of the issues regarding the lack of discussion/communication have already been discussed
<james_w> so you don't think it was really a MOTU issue?
<nhandler> james_w: It wasn't the MOTU team that initiated the notification changes. It was a Canonical team
<ajmitch> not unless it involved changing packages in universe to suit
<ScottK> I'm not sure it was significantly worse for MOTU than anyone else.
<ScottK> ajmitch: It did.
<ajmitch> ScottK: I wasn't sure how much of that was being done, from what I could see those changes were being deferred
<ScottK> There were a few packages that got patched.  I didn't count how many.
<james_w> maybe a dozen or so
<ScottK> I sponsored a few, but only with either a commitment to maintain the patch until it was upstream or that the patch came from upstream.
<james_w> In reltation to these changes, I wasn't particularly happy when I felt you were obstructing my work on them ScottK.
<ScottK> james_w: I can understand that.
<james_w> though it didn't last long in the end, so I don't think it's a big issue
<james_w> ScottK: you don't understand when I think you were blocking me?
<pochu> he's said he can
<ScottK> james_w: I was trying to say that I understand why you weren't happy about it.
 * ajmitch sees a "can", not "can't"
<james_w> ah, sorry
<ScottK> No problem.
<james_w> I shouldn't schedule meetings that are this late in my own timezone :-)
<james_w> ScottK: do you think there is anything that we should examine there, or just chalk it up to a one-off that probably won't occur again?
<ScottK> james_w: I'm reasonably certain stuff like this will happen again, but that it's out of our hands.
<ScottK> I think most of the problems with it were much broader than MOTU and there isn't a lot we could have done better.
<james_w> and do you think you would take the same actions again?
<ScottK> Probably not.
<ScottK> I think that once it happens again the odds of my having any significant involvment in Ubuntu development are quite low.
<james_w> I think we should work to avoid those in the small critical teams are blocking people in general, even though it is sometimes required
<ScottK> So the particular issue that came up between you and I is very unlikely to repeat.
<james_w> ok, that would be a great shame
<james_w> does anyone else have anything for this topic?
<ScottK> That particular case of me being a blocking force wasn't so great, but in other circumstances we've got ubuntu-mozillateam to agree to maintain their Universe firefox packages and they didn't before.
<ScottK> Nothing else here.
<james_w> in this case I felt there was not an issue of maintenance of the changes, so it was different for me
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> My only point is that sometimes a block is useful.
<james_w> sure, and I would agree
<james_w> as I said, it only amounted to about 2 hours frustration, so we shouldn't dwell on it
<james_w> any other topics to discuss?
<ScottK> How about Python transition.
<james_w> REVU? QA? transitions? motu-release? co-ordination? communication?
<ajmitch> only other thing that was sprung on MOTU late in the cycle was the python transition
<james_w> [TOPIC] python transition
<MootBot> New Topic:  python transition
<james_w> ok, what went well here?
<ScottK> That one we actually knew was coming as it was a spec item from UDS.
<ScottK> What I didn't expect was that it would get uploaded so late.
<james_w> I think we released with nothing uninstallable?
<james_w> (because of python default changing at least)
<ScottK> Yes, we got to installable, but only started to scratch the surface of 'works with Python 2.6'
<ajmitch> I've heard that there were still packages that needed fixed at least
<ajmitch> SRU candidates, perhaps
<ScottK> Yes, there are ones not working.
<james_w> yeah, I think we're going to be seeing python2.6 issues for a while
<james_w> could we improve on this somehow?
<ajmitch> and some of those that were fixed early on will need to be updated again to work with some changes to --prefix, etc
<james_w> more testsuites during build springs to mind
<ScottK> I think it would be a good idea to not make a new Python version the default in the release it's introduced.
<james_w> communication about the testing needs with the userbase, and feedback by filing bugs with a specific tag or something
<ScottK> Obviously that's bigger than MOTU, but we can take that to the lessons learned session at UDS.
<james_w> yeah. some of the things are "outside MOTU", but our experiences would certainly be valued
<ScottK> Personally, I found the Python transition frustrating as it took time away from stuff I wanted to get done for the release.
<james_w> I felt that it was also no co-ordinated that well
<james_w> regardless of the timing issue
<ScottK> Yes.
<james_w> we had to work out the way to find broken packages, share common fixes
<ScottK> I think maybe next time there needs to be a companion spec for getting the modules/applications transitioned.
<james_w> and the "correct" way to do some things was only revealed later
<ScottK> Yep.
<james_w> obviously we need to do some of this, but providing a starting point would have led to a better feeling I think
<james_w> I guess this goes beyond python
<james_w> but it is the most obvious because ironically it is actually the one best set up to handle these transitions
<james_w> so, what would be a good way to present the feedback?
<ScottK> Part of the complexity was we had two transitions here.
<ScottK> 1. Python 2.5 -> 2.6
<james_w> you mean 2.6 available and 2.6 by default?
<james_w> ah
<james_w> gotcha
<ScottK> 2. Build system changes (dist-packages/usr/local by default)
<james_w> I can see why they were done together, but it did make it trickier
<ScottK> The 2.6 part would have been pretty easy without the build system changes.
<ScottK> So when we focus on 'it was painful' we need to communicate about what caused the pain.
<james_w> should we just wait for the "3.0 by default" session at UDS and try and remember this stuff?
<ScottK> Also since we were ahead of Debian, that made it hard too.
<ScottK> 2.7 first.
<ScottK> 3.x is a long way off.
 * ajmitch can't see ubuntu moving to 3.0 by default until around or after the next LTS
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> Probably after.
<ajmitch> depending on how long upstream will want to support 2.x
<james_w> perhaps we could create an "informational blueprint" out of this?
<james_w> (basically a wiki page)
<ScottK> It appears they understand 3.x will take a long time and are continuing development of 2.x at a low rate.
<james_w> "best practices for a python transition"?
<james_w> and "best practices for a transition" I guess
<ScottK> 1.  Go after Debian.  2.  Done.
<ScottK> ;-)
<james_w> heh
<james_w> 1b. make sure Debian starts after DIF and finishes before it
<ajmitch> python teams in debian are fairly decent
<james_w> indeed
<ScottK> Yep and gave us some help.
<james_w> if python2.6 had been available in Debian at the same time it would have been easier to work together
<RainCT_> (hi)
<james_w> hi RainCT_
<ajmitch> nothing we could do directly to change that
<ScottK> james_w: Yes.   Absolutely.  And that's something that is in doko's control to provide (modulo Debian release freezes)
<james_w> (and NEW)
<ScottK> Yes, and New.
<james_w> we can't put this all at his feet however
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> He's the only one that can manage the timing.  Due to the release freeze in Debian, it really wasn't possible this time.
<ajmitch> no, but noone else would really have been able to update it in debian
<james_w> yeah
<ajmitch> syncing 2 release cycles & approvals from various people wouldn't be easy
<ScottK> Yes, although there's a spec about that for discussion at UDS.
<james_w> plus being the main python maintainer, plus dealing with all of the toolchain and java and ...
<ScottK> Trying to sync up squeeze and Ubuntu's next LTS.
<ajmitch> ScottK: great, put forward our concerns & suggestions then :)
<james_w> ok, I think we've done on this topic, agreed?
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ajmitch> sure
<james_w> any other topic suggestions?
<ScottK> Yes
<ajmitch> REVU & new packages?
<ScottK> I think we need to work with main to define targets for other multiple versionsed libs
<ajmitch> though it's not something in my area
<james_w> ScottK: libdb etc?
<ScottK> e.g. boost1.35 for Jaunty.  What's the target for Karmic
<ScottK> libdb too
<ScottK> james_w: Yes.
<james_w> [TOPIC] multiply versioned libs
<MootBot> New Topic:  multiply versioned libs
<james_w> if they're even real things :-)
<ScottK> We need to define the targets early and communicate them.
<james_w> you said "work with main", is there someone you have in mind?
<ScottK> We also need a cleanup plan for pushing the old stuff out.
<ajmitch> ScottK: how much coordination with main is needed given that archive reorganisation?
<james_w> or is it just a "look at the whole" distro thing?
<ScottK> james_w: I think most of this falls under Foundations.
<ajmitch> I'm guessing it'll tend towards 'look at everything'
<james_w> probably :-)
<ScottK> I think it's a look at the whole distro, make a plan, communicate it.
<james_w> everything seems to...
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> I guess the first thing I would ask is: "Do we have a list of all of these?"
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> I know boost and libdb.
<james_w> if not, then lets start one, so we at least know what to look at
<ScottK> I'm sure there are others.
<james_w> yeah
<ScottK> I need to leave for $WORK (working 7PM to 3AM this week).
<james_w> once we have that we can have a meeting at the start of the cycle (UDS or otherwise)
<james_w> ScottK: ah, ok, have fun!
<ScottK> I'm curious for feedback on how people felt about motu-release and exception processing.
<ScottK> I'll read the scrollback.
<james_w> I'll try and gather some
<ScottK> I'll also toss in that we could have had final freeze much later.
<ScottK> I intend to take that up at UDS with ubuntu-release.
<james_w> yeah, I remember you saying that now
<james_w> oh, good, I was just going to say that you know the issues much better than us :-)
<ScottK> Security-in-soyuz really altered the release critical path in a way we didn't anticipate.
<ScottK> Later
<james_w> bye
<james_w> all those in favour of actioning ScottK to do the rest of the work say "Aye" ;-)
<nhandler> Aye ;)
<RainCT> Aye :)
<james_w> motion carried :-)
 * ScottK is very good at ignoring actions he doesn't feel like doing ....
<james_w> is anyone else familiar with the multiple versioned libraries issue?
<nhandler> Not really
 * RainCT doesn't even know what it is :(
<ajmitch> not with any intimacy
<ajmitch> RainCT: carrying multiple versions of the same library
<james_w> I suggest we take it to the mailing list then, as we will be able to have a more useful discussion
<RainCT> ajmitch: there are lots of those, or not?
<ajmitch> eg how many should be carried across releases, transitioning packages from one set to another
<ajmitch> RainCT: not a huge number
<pochu> e.g wxwidgets2.[468] ? :-)
<RainCT> or is it just that aptitude shows me the old ones which have already been deleted? :P
<yvan300> has the meeting brgun
<james_w> RainCT: they just aren't caught by the usual soname change -> NBS route, so they can pile up and become a pain
<ajmitch> it shows up more when there are multiple sets of headers that can be installed at once
<RainCT> +1 to killing wxwidgets packages! :P
<james_w> yvan300: still 20 minutes :-)
<nhandler> yvan300: BT meeting in ~15 minutes
<james_w> ok
<james_w> [TOPIC] REVU and new packages
<MootBot> New Topic:  REVU and new packages
<yvan300> james_w: ok
<james_w> who here was involved in this last cycle?
<nhandler> o/
<RainCT> \o
<nhandler> Near the end of the last cycle, persia, mok0, and myself started discussing possiblely moving to a new REVU interface
<nhandler> (and RainCT )
<yvan300> james_w: what are we gonna basically discuss
<james_w> yvan300: no idea, sorry, I'm not on that team
<ajmitch> nhandler: what problems would that solve?
<yvan300> nhandler: u know
<nhandler> ajmitch: It would create separate lists instead of the two main ones we have now
<st33med_> know wat?
<nhandler> Let me try and find the wiki page
<james_w> nhandler: yeah, can we start with an overview of what improved last cycle, and what is still a problem?
<nhandler> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVUWorkflowProposal
<nhandler> Last cycle, RainCT implemented weekly REVU days which IMO caused a lot more Developers to devote time to reviewing packages on REVU
<nhandler> I am hoping to continue to hold these days (first one is Friday)
<ajmitch> nhandler: currently I see a breakdown of new/archived/updated, etc
<nhandler> ajmitch: One of the biggest issues with the current layout is for packages that receive one advocation. After that, many developers are hesitant to comment on the package because a non-advocating comment will send it to the needs work list
<nhandler> That was one thing that mok0's layout would solve
<ajmitch> ok
<james_w> a quick look suggests to me that the proposed interface would be an improvement
<nhandler> A demo can be seen here: http://dmz-212.daimi.au.dk/~mok/revu/
<james_w> were there any concerns expressed about it?
<ajmitch> nhandler: I guess anything that helps get through the list of packages that are 6+ months old on there would be good
<ajmitch> some of those being just uploaded, commented on, & forgotten
<james_w> and there's code!?
<nhandler> ajmitch: In the end, it simply boils down to the fact that we have lots of packages being uploaded, but very few developers devoting time to REVU
<RainCT> iirc (that was quite some time ago :P) persia wasn't really happy with it but didn't want to block the change if he was the only one feeling so
<james_w> that looks great, though I would change the default page shown to MOTUs
<ajmitch> nhandler: it cuts 2 ways - not enough people reviewing, and uploaders not making changes after getting comments
<nhandler> RainCT: I think I had some concerns as well, but I need to look at it again (it was a while ago)
<james_w> it seems like we could move this to a mailing list discussion to try and get the change approved, am I wrong?
<nhandler> james_w: This was discussed at a previous MOTU meeting and on the list. I'll try to coordinate to get the ball rolling again
<james_w> nhandler: thanks
<james_w> is there anything else to discuss about REVU?
<RainCT> Uhm yes I got a question
<nhandler> Go ahead RainCT
<RainCT> Not a really important one, but well. I have plans for making processing of packages start as soon as the upload finished (using inotify), but now I'm wondering whether this will bring any benefit considering I already have a cronjob processing everything at 3 minute intervals. Do you think this would be useful, or is there something else you'd like to see improved soon?
<ajmitch> RainCT: I think 3 minutes is fine
<nhandler> RainCT: I think 3 minutes is frequent enough. Most people are not sitting at their computer refreshing REVU waiting to review a pacakge
<ajmitch> RainCT: I think logging of rejects & possibly mailing that to be more important :)
<nhandler> I also would like to move towards having REVU build packages in a LP PPA (or in some other fashion)
<nhandler> 5 minute warning
<bodhi_zazen> :)
<Hellow> heh
<bodhi_zazen> The Borg are coming
<jamesrfla> Borg?
<thewrath> star trek
<nhandler> Please let us finish the meeting
<ajmitch> nhandler: getting things into a PPA would require re-signing things, or having a team PPA for the revu uploaders
<RainCT> ajmitch: OK, I think I'll tackle this after finishing exams (in two weeks).
<st33med> bodhi_zazen, I don't want to die!
<ajmitch> RainCT: I can take a look at it, I should have a branch of it somewhere
<RainCT> For PPA integration, there is currently a "Import from PPA" feature which I need to make visibule on the GUI
<james_w> nhandler: there is a difficulty that you can'r re-upload with the same number, which may not make it possible
<nhandler> ajmitch: Since the packages need to be resigned before being uploaded to Ubuntu, I don't think resigning for the PPA would be an issue
<james_w> another method would obviously work, but require more resources for REVU
<bodhi_zazen> shh ... BT do not interrupt, sorry MOTU
<james_w> worth looking at though I think
<ajmitch> nhandler: automated or otherwise?
<ajmitch> it's something that was looked at quite awhile ago, before PPAs were around
<nhandler> ajmitch: I would prefer automated, but manual (at MOTU request) would work too
<ajmitch> and there just weren't the resources on the REVU server to autobuild there
<ajmitch> plus security concerns, etc
 * ajmitch thinks we'll need to finish up & discuss later/elsewhere
<RainCT> Personally I don't see the need for automated package builds
<nhandler> RainCT: I don't have strong feelings towards automated builds, but I think a manual copy-to-ppa option would be nice
<RainCT> It isn't that difficult to build the package yourself, and if for some reason it is it's still possible to upload it to a PPA. But if you want this I don't disagree why having it neither
<nhandler> Ok, we are about out of time
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-06
<nhandler> james_w: Are you going to send out the minutes?
<james_w> I shall
<nhandler> Thanks
<james_w> thanks everyone
 * Vantrax waves to all
<james_w> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:00.
<james_w> all yours BT!
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Do you want to chair or should I?
<Rocket2DMn> thanks guys
<bodhi_zazen> I shall nhandler
<nhandler> ;)
 * bodhi_zazen feels the need to assert authority  :)
<Hellow> Meeting time?
<bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:01. The chair is bodhi_zazen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bodhi_zazen> Welcome everyone
<jamesrfla> Hi bodhi_zazen
<Bodsda> Morning people
<bgs100> Hi bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Agenda : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<Hellow> afternoon peoples
<bodhi_zazen> We have a full schedule so please read ahead
<bodhi_zazen> ready Rocket2DMn ?
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Mailing list
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mailing list
<Rocket2DMn> Yeah
<Rocket2DMn> Just as a followup to a decision made earlier, everybody needs to be on the mailing list, or you will lose voice
<Rocket2DMn> AFAIK, saj and overdrank are the only two not on the list now
<Rocket2DMn> saj apparently said he would get on later this week, so we just need to talk to OD
<nhandler> Has anyone seen overdrank recently?
<jamesrfla> nope
<PartyBoi2> not for awhile
<Rocket2DMn> no, havent seen him around, just on the forums occassionally
<Bodsda> no
<thewrath> no, only when he said he would sign up alter on in the week
<bodhi_zazen> How about if we send out an email to the 2 MIA with a 30 day deadline ?
<Rocket2DMn> howabout just before the next meeting bodhi_zazen
<Rocket2DMn> that's 2 weeks, right?
<bodhi_zazen> 2 weeks is too short , IMO
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: I think overdrank is the only one we need to send an email
<sdennie> Either way works for me
<bodhi_zazen> some people have things come up
<Rocket2DMn> ok, 30 days then
<Rocket2DMn> you want to email overdrank bodhi_zazen ?
<sdennie> It's a trivial thing to do
<bodhi_zazen> Well, email helps document nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> I shall
<Rocket2DMn> Thanks, that is all for this topic i believe
<bodhi_zazen> anyone want to vote ?
<nhandler> I don't think a vote is necessary. I think we [AGREE]
<ds305> I vote not to vote.
<sdennie> Naaa
<bodhi_zazen> [ACTION] email with 30 day notice
<MootBot> ACTION received:  email with 30 day notice
<sdennie> 0
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Ubuntu newsletter
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu newsletter
<nhandler> I'm up
<bodhi_zazen> Team reporting looks great nhandler
<nhandler> I talked to the UWN editors, they said that they would be wiling to include a blurb about the UFBT after our meetings
<cprofitt> I agree with the process nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> I think we need someone to lead that project up , probably should be me ?
<cprofitt> and the UWN editors are very nice
<cprofitt> to work with
<nhandler> I have been getting involved with the UWN lately bodhi_zazen, so I can act as a liason
<bodhi_zazen> what do we need to do nhandler ?
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: The Team Reporting link explains how to handle it
<nhandler> If you want, I can demonstrate after this meeting
<bodhi_zazen> link here for logs please nhandler :)
<bgs100> What is the Ubuntu Newsletter?
<cprofitt> I also have a pretty good relationship with Tyche and JohnC
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting
<nhandler> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter
<bodhi_zazen> OK, let up proceed with it then
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting
<bodhi_zazen> [ACTION] Proceed with Team Reporting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Proceed with Team Reporting
<jgoguen> what's the link to our team report?
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReport
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReport
<sdennie> Haha
<bodhi_zazen> [IDEA] I think we need to include the Education FG on that as the Moodle site has the highest visibility right now
<MootBot> IDEA received:  I think we need to include the Education FG on that as the Moodle site has the highest visibility right now
<bodhi_zazen> any other comments ?
<Rocket2DMn> thanks for making that nhandler , we'll add it to our linkbar at the top
<nhandler> I agree bodhi_zazen, all FGs should be included in the team report. They are part of the team after all
<nhandler> Thanks Rocket2DMn
<thewrath> agreed
<Rocket2DMn> [ACTION] Add https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReport to the BT wiki navbar
<sdennie> nhandler: Well, maybe not ALL groups...
 * nhandler notes only the chair can use [ACTION]
<Rocket2DMn> oh, thanks
<bodhi_zazen> Some teams are inactive, I think only major FG
<Rocket2DMn> I think FGs should just post a subsection when appropriate
<thewrath> what teams would be included?
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: If the team has some important news, it should go there
<nhandler> That was what I was thinking RoAkSoAx
<nhandler> * Rocket2DMn
<bodhi_zazen> I think Education, wiki, and "forums"
<bgs100> I have to go...
<bgs100> Wait, nevermind
<bodhi_zazen> we can hammer out details over the next few weeks
<sdennie> bodhi_zazen: Yes, those seem to be the most visible and interesting groups
<bodhi_zazen> shall we move on ?
<nhandler> Fine
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] VOTING IN MEETINGS
<MootBot> New Topic:  VOTING IN MEETINGS
<bodhi_zazen> he he he
<bodhi_zazen> capslockfailure
<st33med> bodhi_zazen, lrn2pushcapslock
<nhandler> We used to use VoteBot to restrict voting to BT members. Now that we are in #ubuntu-meeting, that is no longer possible
<bodhi_zazen> nhandler raises a good point
<Hellow> o/
<Rocket2DMn> I think we should still keep it to members voting, people can't private vote so it's easy to disregard votes from non-members.
<PartyBoi2> It should be kept to members only, imo
<jamesrfla> +1 I kind of brought it up...
<bodhi_zazen> +1 Rocket2DMn
<st33med> Private Message Voting.
<cprofitt> we can ask to have VoteBot allowed.... in here.
<Vantrax> o/
<ds305> Stongly feel only members can vote. Accounting is something that can be done with penci/paper if necessary until automation returns.
 * zu22 concurs members-only
<Snova> cprofitt: Yes, but it works based on voice, I think.
<bodhi_zazen> go Hellow and Vantrax
 * Bodsda agrees, members only
<nhandler> I could hard code some settings into VoteBot to make it look in #ubuntuforums-beginners to determine members
<st33med> We can set up VoteBot to accept votes via PM
<Vantrax> Voting should still be possible just by messaging votebot, even if its not in here
<nhandler> It already does st33med
<Rocket2DMn> st33med, votebot already does accept private votes
<Hellow> I was going to suggest voting by PM XD
<bodhi_zazen> we can vote in #ubuntuforums-beginners
<cprofitt> +1 bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> which would solve the "problem"
<cprofitt> was just typing that out
<st33med> +1
<nhandler> It sounds like the team still wants member voting
<Rocket2DMn> that is true bodhi_zazen , and we can just say the results here
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: I don't think it solves the problem
<PartyBoi2> +1 bodhi_zazen
<zu22> +1
<Joeb454> it creates a fix, definitely
<Joeb454> but not solve
<bodhi_zazen> why not Joeb454 ?
<nhandler> I might be able to code something that would allow us to hold the vote in here, but use #ubuntuforum-beginners to determine members
<Rocket2DMn> I don't have a problem using MootBot though, it seems more responsive to me
<bodhi_zazen> and who asked you ?
<Joeb454> it just seems a hassle
<Hellow> Perhaps we can have a dedicated vote bot with a database of members, and it allows only those people in the database to vote?
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: :|
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: Mootbot is open to all users
<bodhi_zazen> :)
<jamesrfla> lol Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> nhandler, yeah, but we can see the votes
<sdennie> nhandler: I'm sure you could
<jamesrfla> we all know votebot has lag. Rocket2DMn brings up a good point
<cprofitt> how do other teams handle votes in this channel?
<Bodsda> nhandler: could you not have a list coded into votebot of voiced members in #ubntuforums-beginners then check each vote in here against that list?
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: But that means we need to manually count the votes and verify non-members did not vote
<Snova> I think that's mostly because it echos all your votes back.
<bodhi_zazen> how about if we use #ubuntuforums-beginners for voting until we have a better solution
<st33med> I could potentially modify my bot to accept votes
<sdennie> Snova: It is
<Rocket2DMn> nhandler, if it came to that, i would support using VoteBot, but I don't see it being a problem
<bodhi_zazen> alternate would be mootbot until there is a problem
<st33med> It's much faster and no lag
<nhandler> I should be able to get VoteBot working by the next meeting
<cprofitt> perhaps we should ask some of the other teams that use this channel
<bodhi_zazen> st33med: NO MORE BOTS :)
<st33med> bodhi_zazen, no, I mean 'replace'
<nhandler> cprofitt: Other teams simply use MootBot since the meetings are open
<st33med> :)
<cprofitt> k
<Snova> st33med: Votebot itself is not laggy, it just has the annoying "feature" of echoing all your votes back.
<Joeb454> cprofitt: I think they get non-members to then vote -1 to get the count back to what it should be
 * Hellow echoes his prior suggestion
<bodhi_zazen> Shall we vote ?
<bodhi_zazen> +1 = use mootbot
<bodhi_zazen> -1 = use votebot in #uf-b
<st33med> What happened to yea or nay?
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: HOW DO WE VOTE ;)
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] Mootbot ?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Mootbot ?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<st33med> ;)
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<sdennie> 0
<st33med> -1
<jamesrfla> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from st33med. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<PartyBoi2> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from jamesrfla. 1 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<Bodsda> where are we voting?
<MootBot> -1 received from PartyBoi2. 1 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<Vantrax> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Vantrax. 1 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<Bodsda> oh here
<Joeb454> +1
<jgoguen> -1
<zu22> -1
<Bodsda> -1
<Hellow> -1
<MootBot> +1 received from Joeb454. 2 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<nhandler> -1
<duanedes1gn> _1
<MootBot> -1 received from jgoguen. 2 for, 5 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<cprofitt> +0
<duanedes1gn> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from zu22. 2 for, 6 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -4
<Hellow> lol
<ds305> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Bodsda. 2 for, 7 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -5
<bodhi_zazen> 0
<MootBot> -1 received from Hellow. 2 for, 8 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -6
<MootBot> -1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 9 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -7
<MootBot> Abstention received from cprofitt. 2 for, 9 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -7
<MootBot> -1 received from duanedes1gn. 2 for, 10 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -8
<MootBot> -1 received from ds305. 2 for, 11 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -9
<Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, you have to use a +
<st33med> lawl
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: you need a +
<Hellow> win
<bodhi_zazen> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 2 for, 11 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -9
<sdennie> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from sdennie. 2 for, 11 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -9
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]
<MootBot> bodhi_zazen, Either there isn't a meeting in progress, or there is already an active vote.
<st33med> :\
<bgs100> +0
<jamesrfla> ?
<MootBot> Abstention received from bgs100. 2 for, 11 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -9
<bodhi_zazen> LOL
<Snova> MootBot is echoing things as well... but it's not lagging nearly as bad...
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: [ENDVOTE]
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 11 against. 4 abstained. Total: -9
<nhandler> Snova: VoteBot needs threading
<Rocket2DMn> lol, I got rocked
<bodhi_zazen> OK Votebot for now then >:)
<zu22> votebot ftw!
<st33med> bodhi_zazen, I am saying that I want to replace VoteBot with my codebase
 * bodhi_zazen likes mootbot, can we do that again ?
<jamesrfla> go lagy votebot
<nhandler> At one point, ibuclaw was playing around with adding threading support
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: the total still would've been -8
<sdennie> I think Votebot just needs it's throttling turned off.
<ds305> bodhi_zazen: Mootbot couldn't even rig it's own election!
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] IRC Policies
<MootBot> New Topic:  IRC Policies
<st33med> It's multithreaded and can handle a lot of messages at once
<thewrath>  I guess it is my turn
<bodhi_zazen> thewrath: you here :)
<thewrath> yes sir
<bodhi_zazen> go :)
<thewrath> Over the past week I have seen and heard issues in the bt channel. Last night was the end of the line. I believe many of us where in the room. I read about it. I wanted to remind everyone that we are an official ubuntu channel
<bodhi_zazen> I too see bad behavior on the channel
<bodhi_zazen> we have discussed this b4
<thewrath> I also propose some kind of reprocution if a member is foudn to do this
<Rocket2DMn> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/IRC
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/IRC
<thewrath> bodhi_zazen: i bring it up after last nights incidents
<bodhi_zazen> complaints to mailing list with SHORT logs please
<bodhi_zazen> to be handled by council
<Bodsda> o/
<Joeb454> o/
<ibuclaw> at some point, I may merge/edit and push my branch, but the current codebase nhandler has is huge.
<st33med> \\o
<bodhi_zazen> Bodsda:
<Bodsda> is the mailing list really the best place to discuss a bt members bad behaviour, should it not be private?
<bodhi_zazen> I would like to remind everyone to behave
<bodhi_zazen> Not if it occurs in the main channel Bodsda
<zu22> o/
<nhandler> Bodsda: Depending on the nature, either send it to the BT Council mailing list or post it in ##beginners-council
<bodhi_zazen> the council will discuss it in private
<Bodsda> nhandler: and if it is a problem with a council member?
<Vantrax> Bodsda: then to Bodhi directly
<bodhi_zazen> Well if a council member acts out I will kick ass :)
<Bodsda> fair play -- cheers for the clarification
<sdennie> Bodsda: Burn them!
<Hellow> lol
<jamesrfla> +1 bodhi_zazen
<st33med> :D
 * nhandler hopes it does not come to that
<Hellow> BANHAMMER
<Bodsda> +1 nhandler
<Joeb454> bodhi_zazen: I would say that in general, the council wouldn't discuss behaviour via the mailing list, rather via the IRC channel
<Joeb454> sorry, I have epic lag
<bodhi_zazen> +1 Joeb454
<zu22> o/
<thewrath> o/
<st33med> What happened to beginner's council?
<bodhi_zazen> complaints via mailing list, discussion in private
<Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, should I update the BT/IRC page to include info about contacting the council?
<bodhi_zazen> we banned you st33med
<st33med> D:
<Joeb454> Rocket2DMn: I think so
<bodhi_zazen> sure
<Rocket2DMn> that is to say, i would update with info about what to do with complains or problems
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: Maybe a separate Council wiki page would be best
<cprofitt> 0/
<Joeb454> also, thewrath in regards to IRC behaviour, I have updated VoteBot's !ops factoid to display the correct list of ops (it's quite large)
<bodhi_zazen> [ACTION]Complaints to bt mailing list, discussion in private
<MootBot> ACTION received: Complaints to bt mailing list, discussion in private
<zu22> o/
<bodhi_zazen> go zul
<thewrath> +1 Joeb454
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: BT Council mailing list, not BT list
<zu22> the ip of someone who was in #uf-bt scanned my machine for open ports, should i have reported this to anyone? it wasn't a BT member
<cprofitt> I would also like to recommend using +m to calm things down if it is non-voiced folks acting up
<bodhi_zazen> zu22: lol
<Hellow> D:
<bgs100> cprofitt, but that even silences those who (don't have voice and) were not acting up
<sdennie> cprofitt: I like that idea
<bodhi_zazen> zu22: Well, we really do not have jurisdiction on that kind of thing
<jamesrfla> zu22: that happened to me and it was a Ubuntu forum beginners team member
<thewrath> o/
<bodhi_zazen> If you feel harassed, mailing list or e mail me
<cprofitt> bgs100, you are correct... but people evading bans find it not fun when they have no voice
<zu22> bodhi_zazen: oh ok, just wonder what steps i should take
<zu22> jamesrfla: ah i see
<Joeb454> bgs100: we could temporarily voice the members that need to be if it comes to that
<bodhi_zazen> +1 johnc4510
<bodhi_zazen> lol
<bodhi_zazen> servers johnc4510 for hanging here
<bodhi_zazen> +1 Joeb454
<bgs100> 1+ Joeb454
<Vantrax> epic tab fail in this channel
<zu22>  /msg hellow +1
<zu22> oops
<bodhi_zazen> thewrath: just  speak so long as it is on topic
<Bodsda> fail
<thewrath> okay bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> any further comments on irc behavior ?
<bodhi_zazen> I am *trying* to keep the channel a sfriendly and relaxed as possible
<sdennie> I have a comment
<bodhi_zazen> do what you want so long as we do not receive complaints :)
<duanedes1gn> bodhi_zazen: +1
<jamesrfla> o/
<Bodsda> o/
<thewrath> +1 bodhi_zazen
<Rocket2DMn> within the CoC of course
<duanedes1gn> Rocket2DMn:  absoloutely
<sdennie> I think we should be open but not crazy in our censorship.
<Vantrax> and all BT members should have signed the CoC
<Bodsda> REMINDER: Bad/Vulgar language is not 'really' appropriate
<bodhi_zazen> Off topic comments -> table until agenda items are covered
<jamesrfla> bodhi_zazen: maybe we should create like a ubuntu forums beginners team club channel were the team can hang out and not have to worry about this problem
<cprofitt> I would think ghetto language also does not fit
<paultag> jamesrfla, -1
<Bodsda> jamesrfla: create yet another room?
<Hellow> oh god
<bodhi_zazen> -1 we have too many channels already
<paultag> jamesrfla, bad behavior is not tolerated anywhere
<jamesrfla> just a idea
<Hellow> -1
<paultag> Sorry I am late
<bodhi_zazen> additional comments :)
<bodhi_zazen> and +1 sdennie
<johnc4510> bodhi_zazen: did you need me?
<cprofitt> having mock fights and other foolishness is not good either
<johnc4510> saw you mentioned me
<johnc4510> with a +1
<nhandler> Nope johnc4510, tab failure
<sdennie> cprofitt: Agreed
<johnc4510> ah
<cprofitt> it was tab failure johnc4510
<paultag> o/
<bodhi_zazen> no johnc4510 , tab failure, sorry
<johnc4510> cool
<Hellow> Basically, be mature and respectful and we will have no problems
<johnc4510> thought i was being volunteered hee hee
<cprofitt> hello by the way johnc4510
<johnc4510> later
<Bodsda> bye
<paultag> o/
<johnc4510> cprofitt: hey
<bodhi_zazen> paultag: just go ahead so long as it is on topic
<cprofitt> one other thought -- if a Jedi Knight goes OP
<paultag> I think we need to moderate a little more tightly in the chan. We are having a lot of issues lately. I know Rocket2DMn will hate me for this, but I think we need to give IRC FG a bit more leway with moderation.
<cprofitt> everyone should reflect on their behavior and calm down
<cprofitt> none of us like taking out the kick/ban stick
<bodhi_zazen> yes paultag
<paultag> It is out of hand
<bodhi_zazen> report issues on mailing list please
<bodhi_zazen> and I agree, especially at "off hours"
<thewrath> o/
<jamesrfla> I haven't seen any of this behavoir but if I do see it should I just bring it up with the cousil?
<paultag> on that note I need to go :P
<bodhi_zazen> mailing list james
<Hellow> bye paultag
<bodhi_zazen> OK, focus groups ?
<bodhi_zazen> then elections
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Education FG
<MootBot> New Topic:  Education FG
<zu22> o/
<bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: :)
<cprofitt> ?
<cprofitt> this was on the agenda?
<jamesrfla> ?
<bodhi_zazen> anything on educatino ?
<Hellow> ..it was?
 * cprofitt looks for notes
<Vantrax> who put it there?
 * jamesrfla didn't see it in agenda 
 * Hellow looks
<Vantrax> not there:P
<Bodsda> cprofitt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings#FG%20Leader%20Nominations
<PartyBoi2> it's not there lol
<bodhi_zazen> if you have an on topic comment, feel free, otherwise hold to end of meetign
<zu22> My idea for Education FG is to print BT bumber stickers and t-shirts and sell them. And the profits go into a fund we use to advertize Ubuntu.
<st33med> ... That's not educational
<Bodsda> zu22: read the post above yours
<Bodsda> :)
<zu22> Bodsda: ok
<Bodsda> nice idea though
<cprofitt> Um... the education team is involved in a project...
<bodhi_zazen> OK, as I am sure everyone knows, I (we) are in process of throwing up a moodle site
<cprofitt> the project is called the Ubuntu Community Learning Project
<st33med> Ooooh
<bgs100> moodle?
<bodhi_zazen> we have broad and ever growing support :)
<bgs100> What's that?
<cprofitt> it involves using Moodle to tie together existing content
<cprofitt> to make courses
<cprofitt> We gave a session during open week
<cprofitt> and are preparing to present the idea to the CC
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<bodhi_zazen> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning
<cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<bodhi_zazen> [LINK]https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<MootBot> LINK received: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning
<nhandler> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<cprofitt> I think that is about all... Vantrax anything to add?
<sdennie> That's a lot of links
<bodhi_zazen> We will likely present to the CC on June 2nd - so I will of course be demanding your presence and suport :)
<Vantrax> not really, ill make a point of looking at the items on the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<cprofitt> I would like to thank bodhi_zazen Vantrax and pleia2 for their efforts...
<Vantrax> were looking for everyone to contribute on what they want covered.
<thewrath> o/
<ibuclaw> Vantrax, awesome ;)
<bodhi_zazen> I purchased a server and colocation, am open to contributions / assistance with sys admin, etc
<cprofitt> go ahead thewrath
<bodhi_zazen> I will likely offer VPS to BT members as I posted on our MAILING LIST
<cprofitt> yeah bodhi_zazen is putting REAL money in to this endeavor
<cprofitt> he deserves major mojo and thanks
<st33med> Not e-money?
<bodhi_zazen> no, no, no, please no :)
<Bodsda> monopoly-cash?
<st33med> Canadian money?
<st33med> Euros?
<jgoguen> st33med: hey! :P
<st33med> :P
<thewrath> i will contribute the tutorials i have made into courses for that just an fyi i guess
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Wiki team ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Wiki team ?
<Rocket2DMn> yeah hey
<bodhi_zazen> Rocket2DMn: you are up
<Rocket2DMn> the Wiki FG will be holding a meeting immediately following this team meeting.
<Rocket2DMn> I was planning on having it in the team channel, but if that is too busy, we could go to #ubuntu-doc
<bgs100> g2g
<bgs100> storm
<Rocket2DMn> All Wiki FG members should be in that channel anyway
<bodhi_zazen> Sweet :)
<Rocket2DMn> anybody else interested in contributing to documentation should talk to me
<bgs100> nvm
<Rocket2DMn> that is all
<bodhi_zazen> Wiki of course feeds into community learning
<bodhi_zazen> and work on forums as well
<bodhi_zazen> I even contributed to the wiki , so please assist if you have an interest in documentation
<Rocket2DMn> ill be calling on you to help with wiki later bodhi_zazen  :) there are pages that could use your expertise
<bodhi_zazen> Any other FG want to report in ?
<bodhi_zazen> OK Rocket2DMn :)
<nhandler> LP is fine
<st33med> Where are these stickers coming in?
<bodhi_zazen> if there are no other FG to report in -- Elections ?
 * cprofitt nods to elections
<Joeb454> sounds good
<bodhi_zazen> To be honest , we have exactly what we need on the wiki page , no ?
<st33med> I elect Joeb454 to be Vice Buddhist
 * Joeb454 will not be standing again for IRC, I didn't even notice my name up there
<Rocket2DMn> we have 15 minutes left guys
<bodhi_zazen> shall we just vote to accept all members en mass ?
<Vantrax> lol
<bodhi_zazen> or do you want to vote on each ?
<Vantrax> who do we have?
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<bodhi_zazen> scroll down a bit
<cprofitt> I think we need to vote on each and have the nominees agree that they are willing to serve
<nhandler> We have a US Teams meeting in here after us, so we need to be done on time
<Rocket2DMn> we only have 2, lets just do them individually
<duanedes1gn> Ash_R is not here?
<cprofitt> as noted Joeb454 just said he would not be
 * sdennie is glad to not be the leader of a FG.  (Or is he?!)
<Bodsda> duanedes1gn: no, he is working
<bodhi_zazen> Rocket2DMn: we have 9
<Rocket2DMn> oh youre talking about FGs bodhi_zazen ?
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Vote on FG Leads
<MootBot> New Topic:  Vote on FG Leads
<Vantrax> oh
<Rocket2DMn> oh ok, are there even any competitors?
<bodhi_zazen> sorry , me bad
<Vantrax> im assuming everyone is planning on staying?
<bodhi_zazen> no, these have left their competition behind
<bodhi_zazen> lol
<cprofitt> Vantrax, Joeb454 expressed not wanting too
 * nhandler would be glad to have someone replace him
<nhandler> (or volunteer to co-lead)
<Joeb454> I would postpone it until the next meeting, so we can have time to discuss it porperly
<Vantrax> anyone up for replacing either of them, or co lead
<jamesrfla> replace who?
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] Accept all 9 nominations for FG leads
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Accept all 9 nominations for FG leads.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<st33med> Joeb454, we already postponed it once :)
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nhandler> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<PartyBoi2> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from PartyBoi2. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
<swoody_> +1
<jamesrfla> +1 I guess
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody_. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Vantrax> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax. 4 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 4
<bodhi_zazen> Joeb454: we have been discussing it for some time :)
<bgs100> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bgs100. 4 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Bodsda> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Bodsda. 4 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 4
<sdennie> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from sdennie. 4 for, 0 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 4
<st33med> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from st33med. 4 for, 0 against. 7 have abstained. Count is now 4
<ds305> +2
<duanedes1gn> +0
<Joeb454> nhandler: replace who?
<MootBot> Abstention received from duanedes1gn. 4 for, 0 against. 8 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Hellow> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Hellow. 4 for, 0 against. 9 have abstained. Count is now 4
<ds305> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ds305. 5 for, 0 against. 9 have abstained. Count is now 5
<cprofitt> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cprofitt. 5 for, 0 against. 10 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Joeb454> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Joeb454. 5 for, 1 against. 10 have abstained. Count is now 4
<zu22> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from zu22. 5 for, 1 against. 11 have abstained. Count is now 4
<nhandler> Joeb454: I think he was talking about you and me
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 1 against. 11 abstained. Total: 4
<sdennie> I think the FG leads should be a separate meeting
<bodhi_zazen> 11 Abstained , lol
<Vantrax> i agree sdennie
<cprofitt> I think we need to have a sep. meeting with time to discuss
<swoody_> sdennie +1
<PartyBoi2> +1 sdennie
<Joeb454> nhandler: I wouldn't mind somebody replacing me
<cprofitt> I think the 11 abstained count indicated that
<bodhi_zazen> OK, FG leads next meeting then
<nhandler> New members?
<Rocket2DMn> ok, lets do our two padawans
<cprofitt> we should ask everyone nominated to remove their names if they are not interested
<Bodsda> thewrath is the only one
<bodhi_zazen> Wait - BUT I really do not want to put FG leads off beyond that
<bodhi_zazen> we have been discussing FG leads for some time now
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: We only decided to hold an election at the last BT Council meeting
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]New Members
<MootBot> New Topic: New Members
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, we could take the FG vote to our channel immediately after this
<cprofitt> so we have time
<Hellow> 10 mins
<Vantrax> cprofitt: +1
<sdennie> bodhi_zazen: I almost think it's a big enough subject that it should have it's own meeting.
<bodhi_zazen> thewrath:
<bodhi_zazen> you are up :)
<Rocket2DMn> thewrath, can you tell us your wiki page?
<bodhi_zazen> sdennie: I am OK with that so long as :
<bodhi_zazen> 1. People show up
<nhandler> +1 sdennie
<thewrath> ok hold on
<bodhi_zazen> 2. We make progess
<thewrath> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/thewrath
<bodhi_zazen> comments from nhandler ?
<nhandler> I would just like to say that thewrath has really done a great job of interacting with the team in the month or so that he has been around
<nhandler> I think he would make a great addition
<bodhi_zazen> ufw has a gui interface thewrath = gufw
<thewrath> yes that is on my next plate to do tutorial for
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] thewrath for membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  thewrath for membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<sdennie> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sdennie. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nhandler> +1
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<swoody_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody_. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Bodsda> +1
<bgs100> +1
<ds305> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Bodsda. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bgs100. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<jamesrfla> +1
<Hellow> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ds305. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9
<jgoguen> +1
<zu22> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 10 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 10
<PartyBoi2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Hellow. 11 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 11
<duanedes1gn> +1
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 12 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 12
<MootBot> +1 received from zu22. 13 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 13
<MootBot> +1 received from PartyBoi2. 14 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 14
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedes1gn. 15 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 15
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 16 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 16
<zu22> +1
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 16 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 16
<Vantrax> lol zu22 dont vote twice:P
<bgs100> Wow
<bodhi_zazen> Welcome thewrath
<duanedes1gn> wow
<zu22> lol sorry my session is lagging bad
<Bodsda> Congrats thewrath
<jamesrfla> Welcome thewrath
<bodhi_zazen> OK, last member
<bgs100> That was unanimous
<Hellow> lol
<bodhi_zazen> Ash R
<Bodsda> bodhi_zazen: he is not here
<bodhi_zazen> neither of them could make it
<Hellow> bodhi_zazen: What is his IRC nick?
<Vantrax> we can vote with them absent
<nhandler> thewrath: Be sure to send me your LP nick
<bodhi_zazen> both spoke to me b4 the meeting
<thewrath> okay nhandler
<duanedes1gn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ash%20R
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone wish to speak on AshR ?
<bodhi_zazen> Thank you duanedes1gn
<bodhi_zazen> IMO AshR has been awesome :)
<Hellow> I barely know AshR
<cprofitt> +1 bodhi_zazen
<swoody_> bodhi_zazen +1
<Bodsda> I like the guy/girl -- +1
<ibuclaw> he's British, so he gets my vote :P
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] AshR for membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  AshR for membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Vantrax> I havent really see ashr, seems nice tho
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nhandler> +0
<PartyBoi2> +1
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from PartyBoi2. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Snova> +1
<ibuclaw> +1
<Hellow> +0
<Bodsda> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<swoody_> +1
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<jamesrfla> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Snova. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<tim_sharitt> +1
<ds305> +1
<Vantrax> +0
<MootBot> +1 received from ibuclaw. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<MootBot> Abstention received from Hellow. 5 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
<jgoguen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Bodsda. 6 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody_. 7 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 7
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 8 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 8
<MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 9 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 9
<jamesrfla> Lag
<MootBot> +1 received from tim_sharitt. 10 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 10
<duanedes1gn> +0
<MootBot> +1 received from ds305. 11 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 11
<MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax. 11 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 11
<Joeb454> WOW - 45s lag - I missed the entire vote
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 12 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 12
<MootBot> Abstention received from duanedes1gn. 12 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 12
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 12 for, 0 against. 4 abstained. Total: 12
<zu22> +0
<zu22> doh
<bodhi_zazen> We have 5 minutes
<jgoguen> lol
<bgs100> zu22, Fail
<bodhi_zazen> Other issues ?
<zu22> bgs100: heh
 * Bodsda thinks we should have a team song
<bodhi_zazen> Next meeting, 2 weeks
<swoody_> Bodsda +1
<cprofitt> shall we move the FG lead vote to our channel or table til next meeting?
<Vantrax> bodhi_zazen: FG Lead in channel after?
<nhandler> Sounds good bodhi_zazen. I'll update the calendars
<bgs100> Bodsda, ROFL
<bodhi_zazen> Agenda next meeting - FG leads ?
<bodhi_zazen> I do not think we should have an ad-hoc meeting on FG leads now
<nhandler> +1 bodhi_zazen
<Vantrax> everyone is here
<cprofitt> ok... then table it until next time... that is fine with me...
<bodhi_zazen> The wiki FG is meeting
<Vantrax> ahh
<Bodsda> right, im off to bed guys -- almost 1am here -- im +1 for listed fg leads and +0 for any changes
<Vantrax> good point
<bodhi_zazen> and as people feel there was not enough discussion we need to set a time
<zu22> gtg cya
<bodhi_zazen> People are leaving after this meeting
<bodhi_zazen> see ^^
<bodhi_zazen> so, it is not "fair" to proceed IMO
<Bodsda> guess i can stay for a sec
<Rocket2DMn> we're basically out of time
<jamesrfla> bodhi_zazen: might as well just end the meeting
<bodhi_zazen> Other issues ?
<nhandler> Nope
 * Bodsda still thinks we need a song
<bgs100> Is the meeting officially over?
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDMEETING]
<bodhi_zazen> I have 3 min left on my clock Rocket2DMn
<swoody_> bgs100-> now it is :)
<nhandler> #endmeeting bodhi_zazen
 * bgs100 takes that as a yes
<Rocket2DMn> i have 1 min left on mine
<Hellow> i have two
<Bodsda> 2 mins on mine
<bgs100> I have 2 also
<swoody_> two here
<bodhi_zazen> tis over now :)
<Hellow> Lets use two minutes saying how much time we have left XD
<Bodsda> no point in wasting the time
<Bodsda> 1
<Rocket2DMn> no you need to #ENDMEETING i think bodhi_zazen
<Hellow> 2
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: I just said that ;)
<Hellow> oh, 1 now
<Rocket2DMn> i know nhandler , im just a copycat
<bgs100> 1 now too
<Bodsda> finished :)
<Bodsda> 01:00
<Bodsda> night guys
<Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, i dont think the meeting ended, the bot didnt say so
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: End the meeting
<Hellow> bodhi_zazen: pring
<Hellow> bodhi_zazen: L00K
<cprofitt> yeah its #ENDMEETING
<Vantrax> bodhi has to run it tho
<Hellow> It didnt end it, I didnt see the bot respond
<jamesrfla> +1 Hellow
<bodhi_zazen> #ENDMEETING
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:02.
<bodhi_zazen> lol
<Hellow> that works
<Vantrax> NOOB
<thewrath>  /leave
<Vantrax> he he he
<bodhi_zazen> totally :)
 * zaafouri is away (brb =))
 * zaafouri is away (brb =))
<evand> hi ya
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> hi
<cjwatson> afternoon
 * james_w waves
<TheMuso> Greetings
<robbiew> hey TheMuso, I haven't forgot about the meeting time issue
<TheMuso> robbiew: ok
 * slangasek waves
 * Keybuk dances
<robbiew> liw is sick
<Keybuk> swine flu?
<robbiew> lol
<slangasek> and he's also under the weather
<robbiew> mvo: doko: here?
<Keybuk> mvo is on a call to the room I'm sitting in
<robbiew> ah
<doko> yes
<robbiew> the infamous pre-UDS DX sprint
<Keybuk> â¥ DX
<robbiew> Keybuk: gotcha ;), thnx
<robbiew> we should get started....going to be short as I'm drowning in PDRs
<TheMuso> shorter is better for me. :)
<Keybuk> oh, yeah, that
<mvo> robbiew: yes
<mvo> robbiew: but as Keybuk said, in a call
<robbiew> mvo: no worries
<mvo> I will just multitask :P
<Keybuk> 8F. Promptness in filling in performance reviews   (o) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
<cjwatson> stop, you're giving me nightmares
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Karmic Alpha 1
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Alpha 1
<robbiew> didn't we JUST do a release?
<robbiew> jeesh
<mvo> it never stops!
<cjwatson> I literally just cleared away the alpha-1 blockers I own about two hours ago
<cjwatson> or, at least, the blockers I know about ...
<doko> hmm, maybe we should care about build failures before the release?
<doko> armel currently is not releasable, needs a manual gcc-4.4 build at least
<cjwatson> any other big important ones? I'm more concerned about things that cause uninstallability, personally
 * Keybuk has a udev update to go in on friday
<cjwatson> currently slightly mystified by http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/karmic_probs.html being full of rubbish that I can't reproduce under chdist :-/
 * TheMuso ran into libltdl package uninstallability stuff, but hasn't dug into it deeply.
<TheMuso> I just retried my builds, and will wait to see what happens.
<cjwatson> TheMuso: there was a problem due to some packages, including libltdl, being in universe by accident
<cjwatson> I fixed that yesterday
<TheMuso> cjwatson: ah
<doko> openjdk will need a manual build as well (armel only)
<cjwatson> though it does keep on coming up
<slangasek> bwah, why is karmic_probs full *again*?
<TheMuso> cjwatson: ok so my retries should succeed then./
<cjwatson> (ah, and now I see my chdist problem)
<cjwatson> slangasek: my guess is http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/architecture-mismatches.txt
<cjwatson> fixing now ...
<slangasek> yeesh
<cjwatson> somebody's asleep at the wheel while driving NEW, but I have yet to figure out exactly who and why
<cjwatson> I fixed what I thought was one of the major causes
<slangasek> I'm wondering if there's an LP behavior change here
<cjwatson> this isn't entirely a new problem, although the prevalence is a bit startling
<robbiew> slangasek: did Riddell agree to cover for you next week?
<slangasek> robbiew: haven't caught him yet, actually; pitti is assuring me that it's not a problem for him to cover - but I will talk to Riddell anyway to make sure at least Kubuntu is covered
<robbiew> slangasek: okay
<cjwatson> I suspect that we could do with a mass give-back before alpha-1
<cjwatson> at least, once the current buildd logjam clears
<cjwatson> we had some fairly long intervals where e.g. core GNOME libraries were uninstallable on several architectures
<robbiew> okay...moving along
<robbiew> [TOPIC] UDS Karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  UDS Karmic
<robbiew> I've scheduled everything that I know about
<slangasek> pointer to the current schedule?
<Keybuk> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/foundations-a/ ?
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/foundations-a/ ?
<robbiew> if you've created a blueprint and need it scheduled in our track or another teams, i suggest you email me or the track manager
<robbiew> and some in http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/foundations-b/
 * cjwatson remembers that he probably needs to register for the sprint
<cjwatson> (and, I'm betting, so do a number of other people)
<robbiew> yes
 * TheMuso does so
<cjwatson> is there anything else major that team members need to do before UDS?
<cjwatson> I assume that in general we need to do prep work
<slangasek> oh cool, the schedule just broke :)
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> Keybuk can fix it :)
<robbiew> cjwatson: not really, I suppose I need to make sure I have someone to lead the discussions for each session
<robbiew> I will do that early next week
<TheMuso> yep, somewhat spectacularly.
<robbiew> [TOPIC] LSB
<MootBot> New Topic:  LSB
<robbiew> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lsb/+bug/370066
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lsb/+bug/370066
<robbiew> I need some help with this "bug"
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/370066/+text)
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/370066/+text)
<slangasek> robbiew: erm; targeted to 8.04.3?  Is hardy actually compatible with LSB 4?
<robbiew> yep...according to the LSB folks.  I have been working with them to get this done
<robbiew> I will forward the email from Ted
<slangasek> ok
<robbiew> apparently both 8.04 and 9.04 are compliant*
<robbiew> * = some excusable failures apparently
<cjwatson> it's not a huge patch, and relatively unlikely to be invasive; but for karmic we should try to get Debian to go along
<robbiew> they are willing to mark us as compliant, if we make the changes to our package
<robbiew> cjwatson: do you think they will be open to it?
<robbiew> they = Debian
<slangasek> there's no reason why they shouldn't
<cjwatson> don't see why they wouldn't be, indeed
<robbiew> I suppose that would make things easier on us
<cjwatson> slangasek: wanna take this up with Chris Lawrence?
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> (assigning bug to me)
<cjwatson> thanks a lot
<robbiew> slangasek: thanks
<robbiew> [TOPIC] PDRs
<MootBot> New Topic:  PDRs
<robbiew> yay!
<robbiew> The deadline is this Friday (if I recall correctly)
<cjwatson> yeah, I suck currently but should make it
 * robbiew sucks REAL bad...stupid UDS scheduling! :P
<james_w> I heard a hint that the deadline was just for the multiple choice part, is that correct?
<james_w> i.e. we don't have to write objectives for Friday
<TheMuso> james_w: thats how I understand it yes.
<cjwatson> I'm not authoritative for this time round, but in the past, objectives have been something that you write after discussion with your manager, i.e. after the verbal review
<robbiew> right
<james_w> ok, thanks
<robbiew> but you need to do more than the multiple choice part...I believe the written part concerning your objectives from this cycle is also needed
<TheMuso> yes that sounds about right.
 * TheMuso remembers doing that.
<cjwatson> gah, sorry
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/Good News?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/Good News?
<cjwatson> the GTK d-i frontend actually appears to work with current GTK
<james_w> eglibc. Presumably this would fall under our team. Does there need to be a discussion about it?
<TheMuso> awesome!
<cjwatson> so that's looking a lot more hopeful for karmic now
<cjwatson> james_w: I believe it's still a bit up in the air in Debian ...
<james_w> I can imagine
<evand> I've got disk image support in usb-creator basically finished, but I'm still working on other bits before I merge my personal branch into trunk.
<TheMuso> cjwatson: I dare say I and other studio users/testers would be happy to give it a run for studio when things are ready.
<robbiew> just a reminder that doko starts his tour of duty in OEM next week...but still is welcome to attend this meeting :)
<cjwatson> mostly I'm worried about lurking ABI breakage
<cjwatson> if anyone can do this properly, codesourcery can, but I haven't found an accurate and up-to-date summary of changes from glibc to eglibc yet
<doko> well, let's prepare eglibc-2.10 in a PPA ...
<cjwatson> I'll be a lot happier if this does get through NEW and Debian adopts it
<doko> it's being prepared for experimental
<cjwatson> it's in NEW right now for unstable
<Keybuk> slangasek, robbiew: summit is fixed again
<Keybuk> rickspencer was trying to have a sneaky meeting alongside the monday morning plenary
<robbiew> okay
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> oh...Muharem has joined the team...I believe was sprinting with mvo last week
<robbiew> :/
 * robbiew forgot to invite him to the meeting
<mvo> he is sprinting this week
<doko> cjwatson: that's still 2.9
<robbiew> ah...okay, cool
<mvo> he is currently in this room with me :)
<robbiew> :)
<cjwatson> doko: oh, right
<mvo> its going very well so far, he is a great addition to the team
<cjwatson> doko: switching to 2.9 first would be better anyway so that we can easily distinguish problems caused by eglibc from problems caused by 2.10
<dholbach> hiya al-maisan :-)
<al-maisan> hello dholbach :)
 * slangasek waves :)
<james_w> hey al-maisan, welcom
<al-maisan> thank you all :-)
<robbiew> al-maisan: I'll setup a call with you soon...just been really busy this week with PDRs and UDS prep
<robbiew> okay...anything else"
<al-maisan> robbiew: no problem :)
<robbiew> s/"/?
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:48.
<robbiew> thanks all!
<james_w> thanks
<evand> thanks
 * TheMuso heads to bed
<TheMuso> thanks
<slangasek> thanks :)
<mvo> thanks
<heno> hello everyone
<davmor2> hello
<pedro_> hola!
<ara> hola hola
<intellectronica> 'allo
<bdmurray> Hi!
 * ogasawara waves
<fader_> Howdy
<cr3> yo homies
<heno> ok, let's start!
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> The pas week we did a catch up new bugs for SRU and Karmic hug day it was pretty good but too much bugs to do there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090430
<pedro_> the list is quite big as you can see
<pedro_> but anyways ~43 bugs were hugged, and jgoguen continue doing a good work on that front as every week
<heno> ugh, lots indeed
<pedro_> so thanks a lot to him and to bdmurray for the great work that day
<andresmujica> hi
<pedro_> Tomorrow we're celebrating a hug day based on... Compiz!
<ara> pedro_: cool :)
<heno> great :)
<pedro_> page is up and people already started to work on it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090507
<pedro_> yeah jgoguen is a amazing we all know that ;-)
<bdmurray> pedro_: One thing useful to do is reassign bugs to the plugin package if they are plugin related correct?
<pedro_> so everybody is welcome to join us tomorrow to start squashing some bugs there
<bdmurray> I mean specific to a particular plugin
<pedro_> bdmurray: would be good as part of the triage process, yes indeed
<heno> next
<pedro_> i asked to mvo if he had any other particular task he want us to be focus during the hug day and he said not for now
<heno> [TOPIC] New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<bdmurray> This week primes2h became a member of Bug Control.  He is specifically working on cleaning up old gutsy kernel tasks at the moment.
<heno> great to see some specialisation!
<bdmurray> that's it this week
<heno> ok, thanks
<heno> [TOPIC] Should we be looking at doing some hardcore stress testing to get fixes into karmic no that jaunty is out? -- davmor2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Should we be looking at doing some hardcore stress testing to get fixes into karmic no that jaunty is out? -- davmor2
<davmor2> there are some things available in jaunty that are likely to be default in karmic
<davmor2> would it be worth stress testing these thing, like ext4 on the more stable jaunty than karmic
<davmor2> if so what will be the best way to stress test things like ext4 and maybe banshee
<ara> is banshee going to be the default player in karmic?
<heno> Time might be better spent digging into ext4 bugs from jaunty
<cr3> davmor2: might there be existing suites which could be leveraged for this?
<ogasawara> there are already a few ext4 bugs that have been on the radar (some fixed)
<heno> presumably lots of people are already using these new features
<fader_> I imagine we've got a number of early adopters who will be using e.g. ext4 pretty heavily
<davmor2> ara: likely as rhythmbox is nolonger being developed
<pedro_> ara: there's going to be a discussion about the new default player for karmic at UDS, there's no decision yet
 * cr3 is a user of ext4
 * fader_ is as well.
<pedro_> davmor2: which is not true ;-)
<heno> looks like there is not much support for that test project, davmor2
<fader_> If there are test suites defined for some of these things I think we can likely get people to run them
<fader_> (I would happily run some tests if you can point me at some)
<pedro_> btw https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-default-media-player-choice <-
<ara> pedro_: can you point me to the blueprint (if any). It looks like an interesting discussion if it happens in a free slot for me :)
<heno> looking into likely karmic changes so we can start tracking them makes sense though
<sbeattie> davmor2: I think, for things like ext4 and X's UXA, finding issues with karmic's kernel/X stack might be more useful.
<andresmujica> the test suspend stress would go into this right?
<davmor2> sbeattie: this I know but it tends to be quite unstable initially which is why I thought it might be worth testing on jaunty
<pedro_> ara: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-default-media-player-choice
<davmor2> pre alpha1
<ara> pedro_: thanks :)
<pedro_> ara: you're welcome
<sbeattie> davmor2: I agree with you on unstable/broken in various ways, I briefly tested 2.6.30 because I have an i965 and had other issues (wifi's overrated anyway)
<heno> davmor2: I think SRU testing for hardy/intrepid/jauntu would be time better spent
<sbeattie> but the divergence is big enough that you may just end up hitting bugs that upstream has already fixed in what's in karmic.
<davmor2> heno: fair enough it was more of a talking point at any rate :)
<heno> ok, moving on then :)
<sbeattie> it's worth thinking about stress tests in our testing regimen.
<heno> [TOPIC] http://qa.ubuntu.com landing page. Any updates?
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://qa.ubuntu.com landing page. Any updates?
<heno> sbeattie: agreed
<davmor2> sbeattie: I'm already stressed :)
<schwuk> Pending an RT request which henrik and I are chasing.
<ara> the other day mdz asked me why the landing page stated "ubuntu brainstorm". As if it was something new :)
<heno> heh
<mdz> ara: I never noticed it before :-)
<mdz> or if I did, I forgot
<heno> so, watch for a change any day now ...
<heno> [TOPIC] Do we need bugsquad's team regular meetings? -- andresmujica
<MootBot> New Topic:  Do we need bugsquad's team regular meetings? -- andresmujica
<andresmujica> hi,
<andresmujica> i believe that we need to hold regular meetings for bugsquad members
<heno> +1
<andresmujica> looking for a more streamlined process in bug triaging
<pedro_> that'd be good at least once a month
<andresmujica> yap
<andresmujica> i believe that too
<heno> should we bake them into bug days?
<andresmujica> once a month would be ideal
<andresmujica> hmm, i won't like that
<andresmujica> because at bug days
<heno> that would encourage more activity around them
<andresmujica> it's already the packaging triaging sessions
<bdmurray> Tuesdays?
<andresmujica> and the bug day the work is distributed the whole day
<pedro_> right, so what about a Tuesdays?
<pedro_> heh
<andresmujica> sure!
<andresmujica> monthly or wweekly?
<bdmurray> Let's start of with monthly and if there is lots to discuss move to weekly
<andresmujica> i do agree!
<heno> sounds good
<heno> starting next Tuesday? what time?
<andresmujica> so, what should i do?
<pedro_> yeap, so Tuesday 12th as the first meeting?
<andresmujica> make a wiki page with an initial set of topics?
<bdmurray> I suggest we have the first on the 12th as some of will have conflicts on the 19th and 26th (UDS)
<ara> andresmujica: blog, fridge
<andresmujica> 12th is perfect!  same time?  16:00 UTC?
<bdmurray> Is there anything else scheduled here then?
 * pedro_ looks at the fridge
<andresmujica> room is free at that time
<andresmujica> just after the server team meeting
<bdmurray> andresmujica: at 16 or 17 UTC its 17 now
<pedro_> nothing as far as i can see, the desktop meeting is at 16:30 but that happens at #ubuntu-desktop and not here
<ogasawara> the kernel team has their IRC meetings at 1700 UTC on tuesdays
<andresmujica> ohh.. 17 UTC now   12:00 GMT -5 for me
<bdmurray> 1600 is fine with me
<andresmujica> for me too.
<heno> pedro_, ogasawara ^ ?
<davmor2> push come to shove you could always move it to #ubuntu-bugs if it does clash
<ogasawara> works for me
<pedro_> oops sorry. works fine for me
<pedro_> davmor2: yeap
<heno> ok, next
<heno> [TOPIC] Specs/Blueprints/Ideas for UDS Karmic - Any more for any more? -- schwuk
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specs/Blueprints/Ideas for UDS Karmic - Any more for any more? -- schwuk
<schwuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/UDSKarmic
<pedro_> andresmujica: if need help setting up something, just drop me a message
<schwuk> We've created blueprints for all the proposed topics for KArmic (see link)
<andresmujica> pedro: sure i'll do, thks
<schwuk> Does anyone have anymore? for consideration?
<schwuk> sbeattie: I've got yours too.
<heno> thanks schwuk!
<sbeattie> schwuk: cool, thanks.
<andresmujica> so we need to subscribe to those specs for UDS attendees, right?
<ara> schwuk: cool
<pedro_> are they already on summit.ubuntu.com?
<heno> we have two rooms this time so we can schedule smaller discussions in room B
<heno> pedro_: yes but the order is  not final
<pedro_> ah i answer myself: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/qa-a/
<pedro_> heno: ok
<ara> didn't we agree that blueprints is not the best match for every qa discussion?
<heno> please, everyone: subscribe yourself to topics you are interested in
<pedro_> heno: how someone can schedule a discussion on room B? should we do that at UDS or we can use the same wiki page?
<pedro_> s/on/in
<heno> pedro_: people with access to the summit admin page can do it
<heno> which I think is ubuntu-drivers
<heno> e can also schedule more in room B at UDS
<pedro_> ah ok
<heno> ara: right. some should just be discussion topics
<heno> shall we make a non-spec discussion section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/UDSKarmic ?
<schwuk> I'm guessing no more topics then heno, so we can fill the gaps with discussions now
<schwuk> heh
<sbeattie> idea for session|discussion: regular benchmarking/stress testing to look for regressions?
<schwuk> heno: I'm guessing you can schedule sessions without blueprints, right?
<heno> schwuk: right, with summit site admin access
<ara> schwuk: yes, in pink (roundtables, discussions, etc)
<schwuk> sbeattie: it's a wiki :) go add it
<heno> bdmurray: you have that access too right?
<bdmurray> heno: yes
<intellectronica> i'd like to have an opportunity to discuss qa tracking in launchpad with you guys, but there isn't any concrete proposal i can file as a blueprint. shall i file one anyway, or would you like to schedule a non-blueprint session for it?
<davmor2> am I missing something how do you add you name
<heno> so nag bdmurray, myself or any Ubuntu driver to add sessions :)
<schwuk> intellectronica: there's also a request for a hwdb session i.e launchpadlib
<andresmujica> hey, the X bug sessions that bryce has proposed aren't included within the QA specs?
<intellectronica> maybe we should just schedule a malone/qa team summit session, where we can discuss all of that?
<heno> intellectronica: please file a placeholder, I'm sure we'll have action items (a spec) after the discussion
<intellectronica> heno: ok, will do
<heno> andresmujica: are they on desktop, or unscheduled?
<schwuk> intellectronica: added one to the wikipage I linked earlier for you
<andresmujica> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-troubleshooting-x-freezes-and-crashes
<schwuk> heno: added a discussions section to that page
<heno> thanks
<intellectronica> schwuk: fanks
<heno> seems to be unscheduled
<andresmujica> this is another one desktop-karmic-intel-canonical-bug-process
<heno> bdmurray: can you check if he wants that on the qa track?
<andresmujica> and this one desktop-karmic-xorg-intel-upstreaming-working-session
<bdmurray> heno: sure.  I'd also like to arrange a discussion w/ him regarding X bug auto handling
<heno> bdmurray: cool, good breakout room discussion
<heno> andresmujica: thanks for raising that
<heno> Any other business?
<andresmujica> np
<bdmurray> A bit ago I sent an e-mail out about private bugs and a report of them
<bdmurray> I noticed last night that there are some that ubuntu-universe-crashes isn't subscribed to and I've removed those from the report
<bdmurray> Since we can't see them and therefore can't do anything...
<bdmurray> I'll check with pitti regarding getting the crashes team subscribed to them
<heno> ok
<heno> do we need a UDS discussion about crash report triage btw?
<bdmurray> Thanks everyone for helping out with those as the list is dwindling
<sbeattie> bdmurray: did you think more about adding weighting to that list?
<bdmurray> heno: I think there are a couple of things to discuss
<bdmurray> sbeattie: I did think about it
<heno> bdmurray: will you file a non-spec A-room topic?
<bdmurray> sbeattie: maybe we can discuss the details after the meeting
<sbeattie> bdmurray: sure thing
<heno> right, any other other business?
<heno> ok, thanks all!
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:48.
<davmor2> thanks
<pedro_> gracias!
<schwuk> thanks
<ara> thanks!
<andresmujica> thanks! nice meeting :)
<eeejay> did i miss the meeting?
<eeejay> there was a terrible netsplit, the worst since 1996
<PeperJohnny> nothing yet
<eeejay> oh, good
<ara> eeejay: what meeting do you mean?
<Riddell> ** Kubuntu meeting in two minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
<ScottK> \o
<apachelogger> o/
<Mamarok> \0/
<jfolsom> \oo/
<eeejay> ara: the QA meeting
<ara> eeejay: it was an hour ago :(
<JontheEchidna> \o
<a|wen_> :)
<eeejay> ara: !
<Tonio_> \o/
<Lure> hello to all kubuntu friends!
 * Tonio_ is happy to be able to be there at time, for once... :)
<Nightrose> meep :)
<Riddell> evening friends
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings has an agenda
<blizzz> moinmoin
<Riddell> we should start with memership as is our normal way
<Riddell> Mamarok: want to go first?
<Mamarok> ok
<Riddell> give us a few sentences on who you are and what you do in kubuntu
<Mamarok> well, hi all
<Riddell> oh and where's your wiki page
<Mamarok> My wiki page can be fund here:
<Mamarok> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MyriamSchweingruber
<Mamarok> I am a long time KDE user, using Kubuntu since it's existence
<Mamarok> as my nick shows I am also a Amarok person
<Mamarok> and it reads Mama-rok :)
<Mamarok> when my time allows it I give some support in #kubuntu and #kubuntu-de
<Mamarok> ditto for triaging bugs
<Riddell> and run the kubuntu-users mailing list
<Mamarok> and of course handing out Kubuntu CDs at the SwissTeam events and various booths in Switzerland and Europe
<Mamarok> welll,the mailing list moderation is something I try t least, not easy I admit...
<Mamarok> try to* even
<Riddell> Mamarok: what's the feeling like from our users on the jaunty release?
<neversfelde> Mamarok is a relentless supporter in #kubuntu-de, too
<Mamarok> neversfelde: thx :)
<Mamarok> well, I hear both sounds, like it and don't like t, it's the usuall KDE 3 vs 4 shouting
<Mamarok> but KDE 4 winds over as it seems :)
<apachelogger> since she is in a way or another my mom I suppose we should make her member :P
<Mamarok> apachelogger: :)
<Tonio_> :)
<neversfelde> :)
<apachelogger> Mamarok: what are your thoughts about kubuntu l10n? :P
<Mamarok> oh, did I forget to dsay that I'm a KDE 4 lover
<Mamarok> ouch, I used Rosetta in it's beginning and stopped to some time ago
<ScottK> Bonus points for making the attempt.
<Mamarok> it's just too buggy for serious translation, messing up things, etc.
<Tonio_> I unfortunatelly approve this...
<Mamarok> let's very much hope they got the message now since apacheloggers mail
 * apachelogger notes: need to report bugs and be pita about them
<apachelogger> Mamarok: what are you doing over at amarok?
<Mamarok> apachelogger: French and German translation of AKO
<Mamarok> bug triaging
<Riddell> Mamarok: of the many free software projects you're involved in, which has the coolest community?
<maco> haha
<apachelogger> uh
<apachelogger> dont answer that!
<Mamarok> Riddell: you are jokin, aren't you? KDE of course!!!
<Riddell> and the best looking people
<maco> someone digging for compliments?
<apachelogger> Mamarok: how is the weather in .ch?
<Riddell> KDE is awfae cool
<Mamarok> Riddell: remember I always take a picture of you?
<Mamarok> apachelogger: better than it was yesterday in Berlin
<Riddell> we seem to have run out of serious questions
<apachelogger> aye
<Riddell> Mamarok gets a +1 from me for top user support
<Tonio_> +1 for me, obviously,  based on excellent community work ! plus we need more women in the process... keep up the good work !
<Riddell> Nightrose?
<Nightrose> +1 for dealing with the user list
<Riddell> Mamarok: you're in!
 * apachelogger notes that Nightrose is biased 
<Nightrose> heh
<Mamarok> wow, thanks a lot, folks!
<neversfelde> that was easy :)
 * Mamarok bows
<JontheEchidna> welcome :)
 * apachelogger hans Mamarok a cookie
<blizzz> congrats Mamarok :)
<apachelogger> +d
 * ScottK wonders who is Hans?
 * Mamarok *hugs* apachelogger 
<neversfelde> Mamarok: congratulations
<Riddell> on with the agenda
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuKarmicSpecs
<ScottK> Congratulations Mamarok
<Mamarok> and hugs to all the others of course :)
<apachelogger> ScottK: you really dont wanna know
<Riddell> that has the specs I've registered for UDS
<Riddell> I also saw a spec for DX discussions
<Riddell> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-karmic-kde-integration
<Riddell> shtylman, ScottK, rgreening: all ready for UDS?
<Riddell> who else?
<maco> <--
<shtylman> Riddell: yep
<Riddell> jpds: you going to come to the Kubuntu sessions?
<Tonio_> Riddell: me I guess :)
<ScottK> I still need to make my travel arrangements.
<rgreening> Not really :)
<Tonio_> Riddell: and all ready on my side
<rgreening> but I'll get there :)
<Riddell> Tonio_, maco: great
<Riddell> ScottK: book quick!
<shtylman> I do still need to register for sessions though
<rgreening> Travel is done, just need to post up details and look for cab buddies
<Riddell> first rule of UDS is, up by 9 o'clock sharp
<Riddell> else people get grumpy
<shtylman> ooo.... I dunno about that one ;)
<apachelogger> Oo
<Riddell> second is work hard and play hard
<apachelogger> clearly I will never attend UDS
<JontheEchidna> lol
<wirelessmonkey> If you see technoviking...tell him to take his own cab ;)
<Tonio_> and drink even harder !
<Tonio_> but latelly, only !
<Mamarok> shtylman: just don't walk in a session that already has started
<shtylman> Mamarok: noted :)
<Riddell> there should be a way for non-attendees to dial in and contribute
<Riddell> and I believe rickspencer3 has put our sessions spread out along the week one a day
<Mamarok> apachelogger: we could keep you awake for the "9 sharp" session, then let you sleep?
<Riddell> rickspencer3: are they in any order?
<apachelogger> Mamarok: that would be cool I suppose
<rickspencer3> yeah, two a day in the afternoon
<Riddell> rickspencer3: probably the top two on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuKarmicSpecs should be in the first two days as they're the most important and may need some thinking about
<Lure> any candidate to drive discussion with rosetta about l10n (follow up on apachelogger's mail)?
<Riddell> Lure: there's a roundtable scheduled
<nixternal> oy oy
<Lure> Riddell: great, I hope several of you will attend and hopefully this will improve in karmic
 * apachelogger notes to keep the 9 o'clock sharp rule in mind while asking that question
<seele> there is a single blueprint for packaging and development? will you be able to talk about all that in two sessions?
<Mamarok> Karmic has to be *the* Kubuntu release, with all the Ks all over...
<Riddell> if you think there's other things that should be discussed then do add them to that wiki page
<Riddell> seele: that's why it should be at the start of the week incase we need more sessions to finish it off
<shtylman> Mamarok: I agree...think lots of polish should go into it..
<Mamarok> Riddell: translations.....
<seele> double sessions maybe, heh
<Tonio_> Riddell: kpackagekit... decent graphical package manager is or eternal problem I think...
<shtylman> seele: I think icons deserve a special touch :)
<seele> shtylman: icons?
<Lure> Riddell: dx-karmic-kde-integration should be linked from Kubuntu spec page - should I add it?
<Riddell> Lure: please
<smarter> [20:19:27] -*- smarter notes that https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-karmic-kde-integration should probably says that dx means desktop experience
<smarter> don't know if that message was sent or not
<ScottK> I have to say I was deeply troubled by a lot of their discussion at their meeting yesterday.
<Riddell> smarter: poke rickspencer3, he registered it
<shtylman> seele: just general usability icons, kde people will probly get to some of them, but some of the icons (like network manager) don't always make sense
<Lure> ScottK: I hope you will be there on UDS meeting then ;-)
<Riddell> network manager artwork is known to be sub par by upstream
<Riddell> moving on
<Riddell> JontheEchidna: you had an agenda item
<Riddell> What's new with pkg-kde-tools? (I spy with my little eye a merge...) -- echidnaman
<JontheEchidna> yeah, what's up in pkg-kde-tools land?
<JontheEchidna> I noticed you merged the other day, so what's the plan for moving forward?
<Riddell> it's merged, go use it :)
<Riddell> no need to use the kde4.mk from cdbs any more
<JontheEchidna> neat
<Riddell> use the debian-qt-kde.mk one (or kde.mk if you want)
 * apachelogger recommends the former
<rgreening> so is cdbs still required as a build dep? or does that get removed too?
<apachelogger> rgreening: aye
<JontheEchidna> still required
<rgreening> k
<Riddell> cmake isn't though
<rgreening> oh..
<rgreening> really
<Riddell> currently qt is compiling away with new libqt4-phonon package
<rgreening> cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
<Riddell> this means everything using phonon will need to be recompiled against it
<Tonio_> Riddell: what are the benefits of it compared to cdbs kde4.mk ?
<Riddell> and I don't know if that's the same scheme Debian will use so it could change again
<Riddell> Tonio_: it's the same as Debian
<Riddell> Tonio_: kde4.mk only existed because Debian didn't have a globally installed .mk file, now they do
<Tonio_> Riddell: I meant from a technical perspective :) syncing with debian is always good
<Tonio_> Riddell: okay
<Riddell> so waiting on qt, then I'll upload phonon (which now only builds the backends), then kde4libs and base and the rest
<Riddell> currently not much is installable in karmic but hopefully that'll get sorted out by tomorrow
<ScottK> I think the biggest new thing is their symbols file magic, which I totally don't understand.
<Riddell> ScottK: yes they are a bit mysterious
<Riddell> currently we don't use them though
<Riddell> they require dpkg from experimental which was merged last I looked
<Riddell> next week.. alpha 1
<JontheEchidna> so is it possible to inlude them now for merge/sync purposes?
<JontheEchidna> (symbol files)
<ScottK> There are packages that we could sync if that would get done (I think)
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: Not yet.
<JontheEchidna> strigi could be synced if we had symbol files
<Riddell> JontheEchidna: you can include them, they just don't do anything
<JontheEchidna> I had heard that they caused FTBFS
<Riddell> so something breaks currently if you compile it?
<JontheEchidna> or maybe I misunderstood
<ScottK> That was my experience in Jaunty.
<ScottK> Needed to actually remove them so dpkg-gensymbols wouldn't try and fail to update it.
<Riddell> dpkg-gensymbols shouldn't get run
<Riddell> I'll look at that later, no need to clog up meeting with it
<ScottK> OK.
<Riddell> 4.2.3 should be done by the end of day, thanks to everyone who helped with that
<JontheEchidna> cool, that's about all the questions I had
<JontheEchidna> yup, 4.2.3 is coming along
<JontheEchidna> beta1 soon...
<Riddell> yes beta 1 next week
<JontheEchidna> do we want to get the merges finished before that?
<Riddell> that might clash with our alpha 1
<shtylman> Riddell: will it be backported?
<Riddell> yes we do, we're mostly blocked on buildds for the merges
<Lure> Riddell: beta1 goes directly into karmic?
<Riddell> shtylman: I hope so but we'll be pushing it to get it backported right on time
<Riddell> we'll see
<Riddell> Lure: yes
<Lure> Riddell: great
 * Lure will switch then to karmic ;-)
<Riddell> so lots to do
<Riddell> if anyone wants to help the packaging ninjas do speak up!
<Riddell> PPAs
<Riddell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2009-April/002788.html
 * Lure just admires all the effort put by all ninjas - it is HUGE amount of work and releases!
<Riddell> shall we go with what I propose there?
<JontheEchidna> I'm fine with that PPA layout
<neversfelde> yes, soujnds good
<Lure> Riddell: fine with PPA - I will also retire digikam-experimental in favour of kubuntu experimental ppa
<Riddell> Lure: good plan
<Riddell> Network manager plasmoid update?
<Riddell> who's tested the new network manager
<Riddell> nobody?
<shtylman> Riddell: where can we get it/test it from?
<seele> is it in experimental or someone's ppa?
<Riddell> shtylman: kubuntu-experimental PPA
 * smarter just updated KubuntuKarmicSpecs
<neversfelde> the ppa build by a|wen_?
<Riddell> apachelogger: you had a page for test results?
<Lure> Riddell: does not work for hidden+WPA-Enterprise+PEAP+MSCHAPv2
<Lure> Riddell: but just did quick test
<smarter> Lure: that's some pretty hardcode testcase :p
<Tonio_> Riddell: on my ppa, seems to work pretty decent
<Tonio_> Riddell: but I never had any problem with in for my special usecase
<Lure> smarter: that is what my company uses, and no way to test what is wrong in that picture
<apachelogger> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kububntu/PlasmaWidgetNetworkManager
<apachelogger> though I recommend to talk to a|wen before doing tests
<Lure> unless I try to configure something like this at home ;-)
<neversfelde> a|wens build orked fine for me
<Tonio_> Riddell: people having problems' feedback would be more interesting
<Riddell> it seems to work perfectly for me
<a|wen_> i'm looking at updating it soon ... some of the problems reported has already been fixed
<apachelogger> a|wen_: btw, we need a testcase for wrong password
<apachelogger> the timeout seemed a bit long IMHO
<Riddell> at least it does the right thing of opening kwallet before it needs the login password
<neversfelde> oh, feedback on jauntys original version was not so good in our forum, people had to switch to network-manager-gnome several times
<a|wen_> but they did some restructuring; so wanted to see that the svn settled again
<Tonio_> still no way to set options for the vpn connections...
<neversfelde> yeah, that kwallet problem was mentioned there several times
<Riddell> ok so not time to go for a SRU yet
<Riddell> it'll be hard to convince them to allow it as a SRU since it's not minimal patches but I think we should try
<ScottK> Riddell: Maybe upload to Karmic and then backport.
<a|wen_> we had some wpa1+peap failing for once
<Riddell> ScottK: mm, yes
<apachelogger> Riddell: well, it is an incredible improvement to what we have in jaunty
<a|wen_> i'll check the svnlogs and do a an update soon
<Lure> Riddell: we should try - we get lots of negative press and risk of getting worse than current state is low
<neversfelde> ScottK: +1
<apachelogger> so if we do proper regression testing it should be no problem
<ScottK> SRU promised regression free.  Backports just promises 'better'.
<apachelogger> SRU failed to keep that promise loads of times ;-)
<Riddell> let's get it into backports toot sweet then
<ScottK> apachelogger: Agreed, but that doesn't make it OK.
<JontheEchidna> I saw that k3b got uploaded to karmic, do we want to backport that soon too?
<apachelogger> cases where users have to install nm-applet do
<Lure> I would go backports as fallback scenario if SRU is rejected
<apachelogger> the potential for regression is minimal, as there wasn't working a whole lot
<Riddell> JontheEchidna: test it and check it works with DVDs first
<ScottK> We also still have KNetworkManager too, so I don't think nm-applet is really required.
 * JontheEchidna doesn't have a dvd burner
<neversfelde> is it possible to get plasma-widget-networkmanager in backports as a rolling release?
<Lure> ScottK: it is, for my combination - knetworkmanager also does not work :-(
<ScottK> Lure: So not a regression from Intrepid then ;-)
<Lure> ScottK: confirmed ;-)
<ScottK> Not saying Knm was great ...
<Lure> ScottK: but true, it works for hidden networks, which are more common
<apachelogger> ScottK: knetworkmanager does also not work in a whole lot of cases
<neversfelde> ScottK: I recommended knetworkmanager lot of times, there was no great success
<apachelogger> + it is not on the CD
<ScottK> apachelogger: Is on the DVD though
<apachelogger> the idea of getting it into updates is to deploy it _all_ users
<apachelogger> that includes those that have no clue about anything
<ScottK> It seems to me the biggest challenge for Karmic packaging is the OOo KDE4 stuff.
<neversfelde> plasma-widget-networkmanager is a major issue what people dislike in jaunty
<JontheEchidna> network-manager and intel drivers have been the biggest gripes I've seen about jaunty
<Riddell> we'll get it into backports as soon as we can then
<neversfelde> JontheEchidna: +1 here
<Lure> neversfelde: I think intel driver regressions are even worse (but they are at least not kubuntu specific)
<Riddell> when a|wen_ gets an update we'll do more format testing on it and go for an SRU
<apachelogger> agreed
<Riddell> Lure: yeah that's nasty too, but not really our area
<ScottK> Riddell: Have you seen any progress on OOo for KDE4?
<Tonio_> yup
<neversfelde> Lure: yes, ofcourse
<apachelogger> AFK
<Lure> Riddell: I think ubuntu cycle should be 1-2 months after Fedora
<Riddell> ScottK: no, I'll probably look at it quickly before UDS to see if there's any possibility of us working on it
<Riddell> there may well not be but worth looking
<smarter> KNetworkManager stopped working after an Intrepid->Jaunty upgrade for my father
<Lure> Riddell: they have all the bleading edge stuff linked with fedora releases
<smarter> had to switch to the plasmoid
<ScottK> Riddell: It might be a good area for collaboration with Debian as they'll be interested too.
<seele> when will we make a decision about koffice? do we need to do it at UDS? it's still in beta
<Lure> Riddell: or ubuntu should skip some latest and greatest if we want to be monthe before fedora
<ScottK> seele: What decision about KOffice?
<Riddell> seele: as a replacement koffice won't be ready for some time
<smarter> it's definitely not going to replace OOo in the near future
<Riddell> 2.0 is looking like a great base but it's not an OO killer for the moment
<shtylman> given the choice I would stick with OO for some time
<smarter> not even sure it'll ever be able to replace it for the professional userbase
<shtylman> as OO is picking up users on other platforms as well
<seele> ScottK: Riddell: simply to include it.
<Lure> Riddell: Oracle looks more like OOo killer to me ;-)
 * zaafouri is away (brb =))
<seele> i thought it was on the karmicspec list
<Riddell> seele: koffice 2 will move to main for karmic I'm sure
 * neversfelde is unsing koffice in a professional environment, but normal user would not do that
<smarter> Tonio_: ^ I think you discussed with the Koffice2 guys at some point and they said it'll never really be corporate-friendly?
<Lure> neversfelde: koffice 2?
<blizzz> neversfelde: can you create diagrams?
<neversfelde> I am only writing
<neversfelde> but professional writing :)
<ScottK> Probably enough about KOffice for the meeting ....
<neversfelde> Lure: yes
<blizzz> kile is for writing :Ã¾
<neversfelde> +1
<shtylman> blizzz: +1
<Lure> neversfelde: you are a brave person then ;-)
<Tonio_> smarter: well the guys I discussed with, yes
<Tonio_> smarter: they expect it to be a "works", not an "ms office" like
<Riddell> any other business?
<seele> did you already do membership for Mamarok?
<Lure> who is planning to go to gran canaria for Akademy?
<JontheEchidna> seele: at the start :)
<ScottK> seele: Yes.
<seele> ah, heh
 * Lure is considering and good Kubuntu attendance would help with decision ;-)
<Riddell> seele: we did but we didn't hear your vote
<Tonio_> smarter: but on the other hand, our target are home users.... you want to use kubuntu at work -> use OOo and that's it
<seele> i wasnt here
<Riddell> Lure: I am
<seele> +1 obviously
<Tonio_> smarter: I see no problem with that
<seele> Lure: i am presenting
<smarter> Tonio_: except it's probably not obvious for most people
<Lure> Riddell, seele: great! anybody else?
<ScottK> Tonio_: Until the kids can copy the papers they write to a memory stick and take them to school and work with MS Office there, it's not a suitable default for home use either.
<Lure> ScottK: with Office2007 SP2 + fixes for ODF we might actually see that day sometime ;-)
 * Riddell will believe it when he sees it
<ScottK> Lure: Someday, maybe.
<shtylman> <- is skeptical...
<apachelogger> koffice needs more work force
<maco> does koffice2 not do doc?
<apachelogger> in about ever aspect
<apachelogger> maco: barely
<apachelogger> though
<maco> oh
<apachelogger> actually it does ODF barely as well
<Tonio_> ScottK: true that, of course
<ScottK> Lure: Even if it were fixed now, it'd be about 2013 before it predominated in schools.
<maco> apachelogger: so what DOES it do?
<Riddell> I think we're out of meeting items
<apachelogger> look shiny
<smarter> maco: spinned texts :p
<Lure> maco: non standard odf
<Riddell> office suite talk to #kubuntu-devel
<Riddell> thanks for coming everyone
 * apachelogger continues strike
<Lure> apachelogger: huger strike?
<Lure> hunger even
<tsimpson> huger strike, that'a a good idea. keep huging people until they give you money
<neversfelde> Meeting finished?
<ScottK> Yep
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-07
<ogra_> moo
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * GrueMaster grunts in acknowledgement.
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090507
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090507
<NCommander> [topic] Action Items Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Items Review
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to investigate #338148
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to investigate #338148
<NCommander> Poked it with a stick, VNC4's package is ... strange. Will see about solving after karmic kernel is descrewed.
<NCommander> [topic] lool to spec ec2-package-builder for karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to spec ec2-package-builder for karmic
<GrueMaster> isn't he out on holiday?
<ogra_> lool is on holiday
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> [topic] #
<NCommander> GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<GrueMaster> co
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander and GrueMaster to debug #337809
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander and GrueMaster to debug #337809
<NCommander> (I believe thats the APIC 0 issue, LP is currently timing out for me)
<ogra_> yes it is
<ogra_> according to the roadmap
<GrueMaster> yes it is.  CO.  I've been focusing on other issues this week.
<NCommander> Same here
<NCommander> [topic] StevenK to follow up with Tim on lpia kernel configuration
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK to follow up with Tim on lpia kernel configuration
<ogra_> hmm, no StevenK
 * NCommander just noticed
 * NCommander will note ATM I'm half dead :-/
<ogra_> can you ping him in the other channel ?
 * ogra_ is in another machine atm
<ogra_> *on
<NCommander> ogra, he's /away ATM
<NCommander> But I pinged him
<ogra_> ah
<NCommander> [topic] HIgh priority bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  HIgh priority bugs
<ogra_> looks like most of the team is missing btw
 * ogra_ doesnt see dyfet either
<NCommander> This is the right time for the IRC meeting, right?
 * NCommander just wants to make sure he's not loosing it
<ogra_> yes
<ogra_> it didnt change according to my gcal
<GrueMaster> same here.
<GrueMaster> I pinged dyfet.
<ogra_> davidm, plars ?
<plars> ogra_: yes?
 * ogra_ isnt sure persia is supposed to attend atm
<ogra_> plars, just checking who of us is actually here :)
<NCommander> Anyway, a heads up on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ports/+bug/373214
<NCommander> ATM the armel kernel headers are completely hosed, so any build that needed the kernel headers will fail on armel, amd64, i386, lpia, and powerpc
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 373214 in linux-ports "/usr/include/asm/* is not present in linux-libc-dev" [Critical,In progress]
<ogra_> thats totally not bound to armel as i understood
<NCommander> This bug is on cjwatson and on my plate, as well as members of the kernel team, but until its resolved, please expect any upload to fail on these architecture.
<ogra_> its broken on all arches
<ogra_> or not?
<NCommander> ogra_, ia64, sparc and hppa are unaffected
<NCommander> (aka, only the archs people use are affected :-))
<ogra_> heh
<NCommander> It looks like its a bug in find in some very rare cirmstances
<NCommander> Oh, cjwatson isolated it, so it should be fixed soonish
<ogra_> great
<lool> NCommander: Not sure why specing ec2-package-builder is still on the agenda; it's registered for karmic
<NCommander> lool, its an action item, I just haven't scratched it yet
<NCommander> So that's pretty much all I have on bug and annoucements affecting the team.
<ogra_> on a sidenote we have a massive issue on armel with c++ it seems
<NCommander> ogra, ?
<davidm> I'm here sorry
<ogra_> but afaik lamont is working on libstdc++
<NCommander> ogra_, what's the issue? (I haven't heard anything)
<plars> ogra_: bug#?
<ogra_> totem, python-apt and some libgnome stuff ftbfs'ed
<ogra_> i talked with cjwatson about it, seems lamot is doing a build that fixes it atm ... i dont think there is a bug open for it
<lamont> ogra_: the linux-libc-dev issue is probably going to be an issue for the libstdc++ thing, but yes, libstdc++ is actively on my list
<ogra_> on rimu there is a local build from doko if you need to testbuild any packages
<ogra_> lamont, do you think it will be solved in time for alpha1 (so we can build images)
<ogra_> ?
<davidm> StevenK will be here shortly
<ogra_> currently livecd-rootfs fails
<cjwatson> I just sent a patch to findutils upstream to fix the linux-libc-dev bug
<cjwatson> it'll be fixed in Ubuntu as soon as I can manage it
<ogra_> cjwatson, yay, one down the list
<NCommander> cjwatson, +1 :-)
<ogra_> so we only have libstdc++ left ...
<lamont> cjwatson: the expectation is that said bug will probably get in the way of libstdc++ - tell me that's happy and it'll definitely get time from me
<NCommander> hey StevenK
<NCommander> [topic] # StevenK to follow up with Tim on lpia kernel configuration
<MootBot> New Topic:  # StevenK to follow up with Tim on lpia kernel configuration
<StevenK> Please carry over, I think that should be discussed at UDS
<cjwatson> lamont: (-> #ubuntu-devel)
<NCommander> fair enough
<NCommander> [topic] Specification Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Discussion
<NCommander> if any :-P
<NCommander> Going once
<NCommander> Going twice
<NCommander> Going three times ...
<NCommander> [topic] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<davidm> I think you can remove that from the agenda
<davidm> Specification Discussion that is
<NCommander> davidm, I will when I write up the next weeks wiki pages
<davidm> That works
<NCommander> No open discussion?
<NCommander> Ok ...
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business ...
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business ...
<ogra_> doesnt look like
<davidm> Nope
<NCommander> Well
<bradf> good meeting!
<NCommander> I think we're about to set a record for fastest mobile meeting ever
<davidm> Nah, we had one in 10 minutes once
<plars> heh
<StevenK> First one with the new format, if I recall
<davidm> that was a while ago however
<ogra_> heh, well, i dont remember but i think the last pre-UDS ones were as short as well
<NCommander> Ok, I think we're done
<StevenK> We went from a meeting that took 70 minutes to 10, and we all went "WTF?"
<NCommander> Going once
<ogra_> yeah
<NCommander> twice
<NCommander> three times
<NCommander> And we're out of here!
<StevenK> Sold!
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:24.
 * StevenK coughs
<ogra_> who pays it ?
<StevenK> The bidder, we were just selling it
 * ogra_ didnt see any hands up ... but NCommander sold it
<NCommander> ogra_, I dunno who to :-)
<ogra_> damned ... then you have to keep it and pay the storage costs :P
<GrueMaster> judging by the scroll log, I think it went to a silent bidder.
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> these quiet guys buy the world :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-08
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> persia, soren, jpds, nhandler, nixternal: who of you is up already?
<persia> I'm about, but need a few minutes before I'm ready.
<dholbach> ok
<soren> I need a minute and a half. Sorry.
<dholbach> soren: no worries
<dholbach> I think jpds said something about not being sure he made it to his office in time
<dholbach> so let's see
 * soren is here now
<dholbach> lidaobing is not around yet it seems
<dholbach> directhex neither
<dholbach> james_w?
 * james_w waves
<dholbach> hiyaq
<soren> Good morning.
<jpds> Morning.
<soren> Derka, derka, derka.
<dholbach> soren: which language is that? :)
<soren> dholbach: Terrorist :)
<lidaobing> dholbach, hello
<dholbach> hi lidaobing
<dholbach> persia might need another few minutes, so we'll kick off the meeting shortly
<lidaobing> ok
<soren> Agenda?
<dholbach> persia, jpds, soren: anybody of you wants to chair?
<persia> I can chair.
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 02:04. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> persia: super
 * soren hugs persia 
<dholbach> Our agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
<persia> [LINK] Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meeting
<persia> [topic] Universe Contributor Application for Li Daobing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Universe Contributor Application for Li Daobing
<dholbach> lidaobing: how are you doing today?
<lidaobing> dholbach, hello
<dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiDaobing/UniverseContributorApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiDaobing/UniverseContributorApplication
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiDaobing/UniverseContributorApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiDaobing/UniverseContributorApplication
 * persia shows dholbach the comfy roller-chair on the side of the table, specially reserved for him :)
<dholbach> persia: thanks muchly :)
<lidaobing> dholbach, how to go on? introduce myself?
<dholbach> lidaobing: we're just going to ask a few questions .... how was the jaunty cycle for you?
<lidaobing> I uploaded several packages during jaunty
<lidaobing> the most important one is ibus 0.1.1
<lidaobing> which is considered the next generation input platform
<lidaobing> but it is not finished in jaunty cycle
<dholbach> lidaobing: would you recommend it for the default in karmic or does it still need more work?
<lidaobing> only the base package and japanese and hangul input method came in
<lidaobing> i think it need more time to become the default.
<lidaobing> I still experience in some problem with it
<lidaobing> such as dealing with zombie ibus process
<dholbach> did you get a lot of interest from users testing it?
<lidaobing> and dealing with java application,
<lidaobing> yes, many one suggesting this package, because scim is more buggy, :-)
<lidaobing> and ibus is still has no qt immodule
<dholbach> I hope we can get the remaining modules into Karmic - did you work on packages for all the modules available?
<lidaobing> yes, except one which maybe have patent issue on it.
<dholbach> ah ok
<lidaobing> the author sue the Microsoft for it.
<dholbach> I appreciate your efforts on the input method front... do you have any other interests (in terms of other packages) too?
<lidaobing> I have uploaded several other packages in jaunty
<lidaobing> such as fqterm and llk-linux
<lidaobing> I am interested in packaging the packages in Chinese culture.
<dholbach> that sounds great
<dholbach> persia, soren, jpds: do you have any questions already?
<soren> lidaobing: I'm curious about how widely adopted Ubuntu is in China.
<jpds> Oh, nice work getting ibus into Debian too!
<soren> lidaobing: I think in most of the rest of the world, it's a clear leader, but in China, I'm not so sure.
<lidaobing> soren, Ubuntu is also the leader in China
<lidaobing> soren, i mean leader Linux distribution
<lidaobing> Windows still consume almost all the market, more than 99%
<dholbach> jpds: in Debian is it still in NEW?
<lidaobing> jpds, still in the NEW queue.
<jpds> dholbach: Yeah.
<dholbach> ok
<soren> lidaobing: Cool.
<lidaobing> soren, thanks
<jpds> lidaobing: I usually find finding a sponsor the hardest bit myself :)
<lidaobing> jpds, too few sponsor in debian-mentors
<lidaobing> jpds, I became DD weeks ago
<jpds> lidaobing: Oh, well done.
<persia> lidaobing, One of the things we look for in UCD applicants is integration with the development community.  I note that you only have one endorsement on your application.  Did you request more?
<lidaobing> so I am busy sponsoring in this two weeks
<dholbach> congratulations lidaobing, I noticed the change of email addresses :)
<lidaobing> persia, sorry, I forget to request more.
<lidaobing> persia, too busy in these two weeks
<james_w> I didn't realise that lidaobing didn't have many endorsements. I have sponsored several ibus packages, and others, and I found the work to be very good, and very much needed.
<persia> james_w, Thanks.
<james_w> and co-ordination with Debian is obviously excellent :-)
<dholbach> lidaobing: in your application you say "N/A" under "What I like least in Ubuntu" - is there anything that went on your nerves in terms of Ubuntu development?
<dholbach> anything that could be easier?
<persia> Or even anything that could just be improved?
<lidaobing> much better than in Debian, I have pbuilder-dist and ppa in ubuntu
<lidaobing> it help me much
<directhex> am i fashionably late?
<dholbach> directhex: it's all good, we're still on the first application
<dholbach> I'm all set in terms of questions... persia, jpds, soren?
<persia> I'm good.
 * soren too
<jpds> I'm set too.
<persia> Right then.
<persia> [VOTE] UCD Application for Li Daobing
<MootBot> Please vote on:  UCD Application for Li Daobing.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<lidaobing> thanks.
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<jpds> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +1 from me.
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<persia> lidaobing, congratulations
<lidaobing> thanks all of you.
<lidaobing> thanks.
<directhex> yay for lidaobing!
<dholbach> congratulations!
<james_w> congratulations lidaobing, much deserved
<lidaobing> thanks.
<persia> [topic] core-dev application for James Westby
<MootBot> New Topic:  core-dev application for James Westby
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesWestby/CoreDevApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesWestby/CoreDevApplication
<jpds> congrats lidaobing
<persia> james_w, What prompted you to apply for core-dev now?
<james_w> one immediate reason is so that I can take on full archive admin duties
<james_w> the others are so that I don't have to wait for sponsors and can ease the burden on them
<james_w> and that I would like to be a core-dev ;-)
<dholbach> james_w: in the application you say that you dislike that the ubuntu development processes are sort of disconnected from upstream development
<dholbach> james_w: could you explain that a bit... and maybe you have an idea or two
<james_w> I think that it is bad as it will put some people off even trying to help out
<GunbladeIV> w0ot lidaobing :D
<james_w> things like patch systems are alien to an "upstream" developer, so when they are in a package it takes a lot more work to add a patch, build the package and test
<lidaobing> GunbladeIV, :)
<james_w> the v3 (quilt) format will help with that particular issue I think
<james_w> the other barriers I see are some gratuitous differences in process, and some odd tools
<james_w> if we can slim the basics down then we may get more people willing to help out casually
<persia> When using "upstream" here, do you mean the software authors, Debian, or both?
<dholbach> I'm a bit confused by seeing "quilt" and "help with an issue" in one sentence, but I'm probably not up to scratch when it comes to the new source package format.
<dholbach> :-)
<james_w> in addition, smoothing the flow from an upstream fix to a package fix would help us a lot at times, and that is one thing that I hope to improve with distributed development
<james_w> dholbach: quilt rulez!
<persia> dholbach, It's about automation.  Our current quilt solution has no automation, which is part of what makes it painful.
<ajmitch> dholbach: less mucking around with integrating patch systems :)
<soren> james_w: I'm confused. You say that patch systems are confusing to upstreams, but the v3 (quilt) format will help.. Isn't that a contradiction in terms?
<james_w> persia: I am mainly talking about software authors. though I guess it does apply on a smaller scale to Debian, though perhaps more that we are forced to modify there processes somewhat, so most improvements there would come from Debian and us working together to improve a process.
<james_w> soren: not really, as you can ignore the patch system in that format, just patch the upstream source directly, and dpkg-dev will turn it in to a patch in debian/patches/
<james_w> this means that you can totally ignore the presence of the patch system without people telling you that you need to use one
<james_w> and lintian complaining about the same as a matter of fact
<soren> james_w: Hmm... I see. I've not actually used the new formats, I just read a bit about them when they were introduced in dpkg.
<persia> That actually applies to most of the v3 formats, not just v3(quilt).
<james_w> persia: yeah, but I think the other v3 formats are silly in their own right
<persia> james_w, So, even as a bzr developer, you don't like v3(bzr) ?
<james_w> bryce wrote a post a while ago that I agree with, about our tools being silly and crufty and this putting people off
<james_w> persia: correct, to me the format is inside-out
<lifeless> james_w: I want to distract you when you have a minute
<james_w> lifeless: #bzr?
<dholbach> lifeless: do you want to tell us to hurry up with James' application? :)
<persia> james_w, You note in your application that you find sending patches upstream effective as an alternative to uploading to main.  Do you expect your behaviours to change if you become core-dev?
<lifeless> dholbach: no, keep him hanging :)
<lifeless> james_w: no, #motu :P get-orig-source and bzr maintained code
<james_w> persia: I don't think so
<dholbach> james_w: how will we get to the point where we can marry upstream branches with our source package branches? :)
<james_w> lifeless: I also dislike get-orig-source quite a lot
<lifeless> james_w: I could easily loath it
<lifeless> I agree about our toolchain
<james_w> dholbach: we'll be discussing that at UDS and after
<dholbach> nice, that makes me happy
<dholbach> james_w: I have a final question
<dholbach> james_w: do you have plans to share your own mixtapes?
<james_w> dholbach: heh, not currently :-)
<persia> soren, jpds More questions?
<james_w> lifeless: was your questions more specific than whether I like it?
<jpds> None from me.
<lifeless> james_w: after you're in-or-out methinks
<soren> james_w: I haven't quite kept up with the whole distributeddevelopment thing..
<soren> james_w: When are we expected to switch?
<james_w> soren: it should be possible to work productively in bzr in karmic
 * persia admires the careful phrasing of that answer
<james_w> unfortunately I am late in delivering stuff for the start of karmic, so you can't see that yet
<dholbach> soren: you must have missed a note...
<james_w> it's just around the corner, I promise :-)
<dholbach> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2008-11-20 11:33 /usr/bin/dput -> bzr
<james_w> heh
<soren> dholbach: Wouldn't be the first time.. :(
<dholbach> soren: I was kidding :)
<persia> james_w, So, could you summarise what is different about uploading to main?
<soren> dholbach: I wasn't.
<soren> :)
<james_w> there's still a lot of documentation and stuff to add before we can ask people to generally use it
<james_w> persia: you are uploading packages that are generally going to be more widely used and relied on
<james_w> except that there are some of those in universe
<james_w> you can break CD builds
<james_w> except that you can do that from universe
<james_w> (found it at last: http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/drupal/node/62)
<james_w> generally you should exercise a bit more thought and care before uploading a package in main
<persia> OK.  Part of where I was going was that many of the things that can break things in ways that affect hundreds of packages live in main.  What are some ways you can determine if a given upload is likely to be innocuous, and how might you deal with one that may not be so.
<james_w> using my knowledge and experience as an Ubuntu developer, testing, peer review, and testing.
<james_w> if you slip up then try to catch on quickly, alert any relevant parties, and decide on the course of action
<james_w> whether it be fixing, reverting, or something more drastic
<persia> soren, Anything else?
<soren> Nope.
<persia> [VOTE] Recommend James Westby for consideration as core-dev
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Recommend James Westby for consideration as core-dev.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> +1 althought your willingness to share your own mixtapes clearly needs work :-)
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<jpds> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<dholbach> congratulations james_w :)
<directhex> yay james_w
<james_w> thanks everyone
<ajmitch> well done
<persia> james_w, We'll forward your application to the TB.  Your meeting will probably be scheduled in a couple weeks, although UDS may postpone it.
<directhex> someone new to bug for main sponsorship! \o/
<persia> [topic] MOTU Application for Jo Shields
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application for Jo Shields
<directhex> eek, that's me
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/directhex/MOTUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/directhex/MOTUApplication
<ajmitch> ew, mono stuff ;)
<jpds> I must say, I agree with James' comment for improvement.
<dholbach> directhex: how are you doing today?
<directhex> i'm doin' good, considering the beer festival in town yesterday
<dholbach> directhex: you mention a few things you'd like to do better in the future... did you think of ways how you could do that? or reasons why you run into those problems every now and then?
<directhex> dholbach, i think my process needs work. i ought to keep notes to remind me of this stuff
<directhex> my memory isn't great, so i often simply forget the "check the BTS" bit. it's been commented on in my debian work too
<directhex> so i'm fully aware that it needs improvement
<ajmitch> for the record, I think directhex has done an impressive amount of work & am surprised that he hasn't applied for MOTU (& NM) earlier
<directhex> i should probably just make a checklist and stick to it
<dholbach> directhex: so post-it notes with "any unmerged changes?", "forgot update-maintainer?", "got milk?" on your screen?
<directhex> dholbach, well, tomboy, but yes
<persia> directhex, The vast majority of your uploads seem related to pkg-mono stuff.  Could you cite a couple examples of other areas in which you're active?
<persia> ajmitch, Thanks.
<directhex> ajmitch, i have an intense feeling of unease when it comes to committing to something i don't feel i'm comfortable taking full responsibility for, so i wanted to "try it out" as much as possible first
<directhex> persia, that's my primary area of expertise, so i have some interactions where that intersects with other groups (kde team, ooo team, etc). for the most part i don't do much with other areas other than file bugs, simply because other smarter people know those things better than me
<directhex> and i know how annoying it is to have someone who doesn't understand your team blunder in & try to do things their way.
<directhex> that and i have only limited cycles, and pkg-mono covers ~75 source packages
<persia> That makes sense.  Have you also considered requesting upload for only the pkg-mono stuff?  If so, what made you choose MOTU instead?
<persia> geser, Welcome.  We're just processing directhex's application.
<directhex> persia, i'd like to think that just because i focus on one thing, it doesn't mean i can't be useful in others
<directhex> persia, e.g. i don't spend much time with REVU because i'm not a MOTU so can't advocate
<dholbach> directhex: you have experience with working with Debian and Ubuntu developers - where do you see the main differences ... in terms of process and socially?
<directhex> dholbach, ah, a pet subject! i think debian is a much "purer" democracy - everyone has equal voice, whether you package X or a lib only 3 people use, your opinions are taken equally, argued about on the mailing lists, then thrown away by the secret cabal.
<directhex> dholbach, as i said in my application, i think the best way to improve ubuntu is via debian
<directhex> dholbach, but ubuntu's stricter governance helps give it enough discipline to actually release with some frequency
<dholbach> directhex: is Ubuntu lacking democracy?
<directhex> dholbach, it's more tiered.
<directhex> dholbach, it's not a bad thing
<dholbach> or asking differently ... is there an obvious point where you see it lacking/missing?
<directhex> dholbach, ubuntu lowers barrier to entry for new developers, and REVU works much better than Mentors
<directhex> dholbach, i can't think of anything "in terms of process and socially" which i'd highlight as "worse" in ubuntu. different, perhaps, but not worse
<directhex> better in many cases
<ajmitch> is it a feeling that MOTUs have less of a voice than core developers?
<dholbach> ok... I just wanted to get a feeling for what your experience has been like
<directhex> ajmitch, no, i think to an extent that's a good thing. i doubt ubuntu could release as often as it does if all ~18000 packages were given "equal merit" - the core-dev split allows the core packages to be given greater focus
<directhex> dholbach, i feel that there are other areas that could do with improvement, especially coordination & sending patches to debian, but that's usually per-person and simply a case of "oops, didn't think it would be useful"
<dholbach> ok
<directhex> dholbach, and i think THAT'S grown frmo the hostility some debian developers express to their ubuntu peers
<dholbach> directhex: do you have plans for Iron Python?
<persia> directhex, While you're applying for MOTU today, you're also applying for Ubuntu Membership (as you do not already have it).
<dholbach> you mention it on your application
<directhex> dholbach, yes. i don't know how many things i have time for in karmic cycle, but i want to give ironpython some attention
<directhex> dholbach, there's a major new release which is blocked on mono 2.2+
<directhex> dholbach, and we need to formalise how we work with doko, who is still the sole package maintainer
<persia> The irc logs for the past few months, include several phrases from you, which taken out of context, may not match expectations of CoC complaince (e.g. "$person is a liar" or "Sod Ubuntu").  How might act differently if speaking officially on behalf of Ubuntu?
<ajmitch> directhex: fwiw, I'm planning to actually be active in ubuntu/debian development again, and will probably look at that too :)
<directhex> hm
<directhex> you can make anything out of contextless comments, IMHO.
<directhex> the former was in response to an observed process by someone with documented issues with reality trying to influence ubuntu policy directly; the the latter could ahve been expanded to "don't take a dumb route to fit within the confines of current ubuntu capability - ubuntu can be fixed to do the right thing, so do the right thing now". but i'm missing yoru point i think
<directhex> how would i act differently? i'd like to think i don't wave my "i have an ubuntu hat" hat about unneccessarily, and make it clear when i'm making formal statements and when i'm not
<directhex> i'd feel uneasy about every comment i make on multiplayer notepad being taken as official canonical ltd policy
<dholbach> hm? Canonical Limited policy?
<dholbach> I'm sure I just missed something
<persia> Well, set aside Canonical, but those who are Ubuntu Members are empowered to speak on behalf of Ubuntu.
<directhex> persia, empowered to, or always doing so?
<persia> Therein lies the complicated part :)
<directhex> persia, again, i think that if people want to take statements out of context, they'll do so with or without any "call a spade a shovel" statements i make
<directhex> and yes, i recognise that it's complicated. i've been a mdoerator on some large forums before, and generally, i've managed to make ti clear when i'm being a moderator and when i'm being a member
<directhex> i'm generally quite direct when talking about things. irc is not a format for subtlety or nuanced turn of phrase
<persia> jpds, dholbach soren: Other questions?
<persia> geser, ?
<dholbach> do you think there's a way to make comments like the one above less mistakable?
<directhex> sugar-coating? usually. but not without sacrificing some of the implied courage of conviction
<directhex> so could i be more subtle? yeah, very lkely
<directhex> will i always remember to? i can't promise that, i'm only human
<dholbach> oh... I wasn't talking about sugar-coating :)
<persia> Well, it's not about subtlety, really.  It's about maintaining an atmosphere of respectful criticism.
<dholbach> right, we're all human
<directhex> persia, i'm fully respectful of everyone i work with and come into contact with in ubuntu
<directhex> persia, and for the most part i'm not critical, respectful or otherwise, of their work - i've got full admiration for them taking their time to help make ubuntu more awesome
<directhex> as i'd hope they feel towards me
<directhex> awesomeness is important
<dholbach> directhex: first of all I appreciate the work you've been doing and as I said in my endorsement I've been very happy with what I've been reviewing - I'm just wondering about the comment in your application saying that there was a need to "steal a package from somebody" - we don't really have the concept of package owner
<ajmitch> I think that's more of a debian & pkg-mono thing in that specific case
<directhex> a debian thing, yeah. if a package is owned by a DD who is active in ubuntu, then there's pretty much a de-facto package owner
<dholbach> still I'd expect there was a way to come to a conclusion together
<directhex> i'd hope so, definitely
<directhex> i think the main issue is time, where someone's main driver is a very busy bunny
<persia> dholbach, So it's really the word "steal" that you're addressing?
<dholbach> persia: yes
<directhex> so when i say "steal" i mean "adopt from someone far too busy"
<directhex> this is probably a statement about stark language again isn't it @|
<directhex> :|
<ajmitch> perhaps a little too colloquial at times :)
<dholbach> maybe I didn't grow up in the world of package owners - I don't really care too much about whose name is in the maintainer field
<directhex> doko knows we want to make changes to ipy, but i haven't sat down & discussed at length with him yet because it's blocking on something else
<dholbach> still I'd hope that there was a way to discuss it and come to a conclusion
<directhex> dholbach, as long as the outcome is "package gets updated; debian gains awesomeness; ubuntu syncs awesomeness" then i'm happy. when there are no blockers, i'll try to schedule time to discuss with doko whether he wants to be maintainer, whether he wants help, or whether he wants to let pkg-cli-apps take over the package
<dholbach> that outcome sounds good to my ears
<directhex> dholbach, i'd seek to avoid any solution ending in the words "0ubuntu1" as a matter of course
<dholbach> that was my last question
<persia> soren, jpds geser ?
<geser> no questions
<jpds> Nothing from me.
 * soren catches up
<soren> No, I'm good.
<persia> [vote] Jo Shields to become a MOTU
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Jo Shields to become a MOTU.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
 * soren likes keeping applicants in suspense :)
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<ajmitch> soren: evil man
<jpds> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<soren> ajmitch: "Takes one to know one" :)
<persia> +0.  With a narrow interest, I'd rather see greater takeup of Per-Package uploaders.
<persia> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<persia> directhex, Congratulations.
<directhex> thank you
<ajmitch> soren: how could I deny it?
<dholbach> congratulations directhex
<ajmitch> directhex: well done
<james_w> congratulations directhex
 * dholbach offers to do the "honours", or does anybody else want to do it?
<directhex> that just leaves NM ;)
<persia> dholbach, nhandler expressed some interest a few hours ago.
<persia> [TOPIC] Other business
<dholbach> well, I could do it *now* :)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other business
<dholbach> no AOB from me
<persia> Does anyone else have anything they want to bring before MOTU council at this time?
<persia> dholbach, Well, if you like.  Up to you.
<directhex> thanks to all
<directhex> ajmitch, we'd love to see you rematerialize within pkg-mono if you're interested in rejoining. you're on the honour roll on the website, after all
<ajmitch> directhex: oh that's nice to see :)
<ajmitch> I'll need to familiarise myself with what's changed
<persia> OK.  If there's nothing else, we'll adjourn.
<persia> The next meeting will be 28th May, 17:00 UTC
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 03:38.
<dholbach> thanks all
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-09
<VK7HSE> elky: Are you about ???
<VK7HSE> Oops wrong IRC ;-)
<cprofitt> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:05. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Mission Statement
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mission Statement
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
<doctormo> Here
<cprofitt> Hello all...
 * pleia2 waves
<cprofitt> Thanks for making it to the Ubuntu-Learning meeting
<Vantrax> Thanks cp
<cprofitt> Before we begin our first topic I would like to let everyone know that we need to prepare a 'rationale' for the CC (Community Council) meeting on June 2nd
<cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale
<cprofitt> We will use some of the topics today to help generate that
<DougieRichardson> Should this not be a specification?
<cprofitt> and we will discuss that later in the meeting... but I wanted you all to see that page.
<DougieRichardson> OK
<Vantrax> It will be part of the specification yes
<cprofitt> DougieRichardson, I have seen that used as well...
<doctormo> Should I add my rationale to the page, or here?
<cprofitt> now.... for the first topic...
<Vantrax> to that page doctormo
<cprofitt> Mission Statement
<cprofitt> opens the floor up to any suggestions
<Vantrax> I agree with the change proposed, basically swapping out the first line of the existing project outline with that one
<pleia2> I like the suggestion given on the wiki page
<Vantrax> is that the correct understanding?
<cprofitt> yes, that is the idea Vantrax
<cprofitt> unless others want to suggest some more 'changes' to the word smithing
<cprofitt> if there are no other comments we can vote on the proposed change...
<Vantrax> I think you guys did a great job with it
<cprofitt> [VOTE] Accept the proposed change to the mission statement (on the agenda)
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Accept the proposed change to the mission statement (on the agenda).
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<thewrath> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from thewrath. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nhandler> 0
<nhandler> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pleia2> +1
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<DougieRichardson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from DougieRichardson. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<cprofitt> Last call for votes
<cprofitt> anyone need more time?
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
<cprofitt> [AGREED] Change the mission statement to - The project is focused on building and maintaining an interactive learning environment(s) to support all aspects of the Ubuntu Ecosystem
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Change the mission statement to - The project is focused on building and maintaining an interactive learning environment(s) to support all aspects of the Ubuntu Ecosystem
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Goals: We need to evaluate the goals of the whole project and draw up immediate goals, short term goals and long term goals.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Goals: We need to evaluate the goals of the whole project and draw up immediate goals, short term goals and long term goals.
<pleia2> tall order :)
<Vantrax> very tall
<cprofitt> It is a tall order...
<nhandler> One short term goal would be to get approved by the CC
<pleia2> short term: contact teams, get moodle running
<cprofitt> and one I do not think we can full flesh out here, but I would like to build consensus on that we need to evaluate...
<Vantrax> my suggestion is to create concrete short term goals and become more general for the medium and long term
<doctormo> Gah my stupid computer crashed, I need the logs!
<thewrath> +1 Vantrax
<Vantrax> Mid term goal is to create the 4 programs for stage 1
<cprofitt> I agree with immediate, short term, medium term, long range pool
<doctormo> cprofitt: +1
<cprofitt> I do not think we need to vote that they need to be fleshed out...
<Vantrax> time frame would ideally be for 10.4
<thewrath> that would be a good time period
<cprofitt> Vantrax can you build a page on the wiki for goals...
<Vantrax> problem will be work volume unless we have more contributors
<pleia2> it also depends on portions of the project
<Vantrax> ill start one
<yvan300> Vantrax: i'll help u
<pleia2> the -classroom portion will still be recruiting folks to do IRC sessions
<cprofitt> [ACTION] Vantrax to start wiki page for goals - immediate, short term, medium term, long range pool
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Vantrax to start wiki page for goals - immediate, short term, medium term, long range pool
<doctormo> Vantrax: Design should focus on leveraing the community and community growth.
<cprofitt> +1 pleia2
<thewrath> I can help with doing some IRC sessions that should not be an issue
<pleia2> cprofitt: maybe we move on from this topic and let the wiki speak for itself?
<cprofitt> yes
<cprofitt> lets use the wiki as a draft page... and everyone can contribute their thoughts
<doctormo> hang on, does the wiki still say that we're here to serve the -classrooms irc lessons?
<yvan300> +1 cprofitt
<pleia2> doctormo: -classroom is a sub-project of Ubuntu Learning
<cprofitt> doctormo, no... IRC -classroom is part of our overall project...
<thewrath> doctormo: do you mean like how the wording is that we server only the classroom lessons?
<doctormo> pleia2: Do we have a list of sub-projects?
<cprofitt> some people who come on-board will use IRC
<pleia2> doctormo: official list? I don't think so
<Vantrax> doctormo: they should be added to the LP
<cprofitt> doctormo, we do not have such a list yet...
<pleia2> but so far, -classroom, beginners team education focus group
<doctormo> It would be good to have a list, I'm not in the IRC classrooms sub-project or it's agenda.
<thewrath> cprofitt & pleia2: would it be a good idea to list our sub projects on the wiki
<cprofitt> ready to move to the next topic?
<pleia2> yep
<cprofitt> doctormo, thewrath we will have a list of teams we are working with...
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Structure: Since this team is combining the efforts of several different teams I think a board should be setup for the leadership structure. There has been no discussion on this, but I think it is critical for continued teamwork and project cohesion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Structure: Since this team is combining the efforts of several different teams I think a board should be setup for the leadership structure. There has been no discussion on this, but I think it is critical for continued teamwork and project cohesion
<Vantrax> pleia2: can you add a affiliates part to the wiki page?
<Vantrax> +1 cprofitt
<pleia2> Vantrax: yeah, I can do that
<cprofitt> While I do not like formal  structure to building teams... and community efforts...
<thewrath> i think the committe should have a member or two members from all teams concerned
<cprofitt> with the fact that we are going to work with so many different teams I think we would be best served to do so
<cprofitt> thewrath, that is a good idea until we have numerous teams...
<cprofitt> I would like to suggest something akin to the BT structure, but I am open to suggestions
<pleia2> yeah, there are far too many teams for that to be feasible
<DougieRichardson> not familiar with the BT structure, link?
<Vantrax> cprofitt: my suggestion would be to have a 5 person project board
<pleia2> cprofitt: I'm not familiar with the BT structure, can you explain?
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Structure
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Structure
<cprofitt> thanks nhandler
<Vantrax> BT has bodhi as a perm board member, an the others are elected
<cprofitt> The structure I am looking at is the Jedi Council on that page...
<doctormo> It's < 12 > 3 != 8, optimal team sizes of any kind.
<cprofitt> and the BDFL = Bodhi
<DougieRichardson> Anything not written from a Star Wars POV ;-)
<Vantrax> lol
<pleia2> yes, less dorky please
 * pleia2 grins
<thewrath> i agree sometihgn simialr to the BT jedia council structure i think would be feasible
<Vantrax> UFBT = NERDS:P
<cprofitt> We do not need the starwars references
<pleia2> I don't think we should have any perm board members
<doctormo> I know, next we'll be doing Star Trek federation councils
<pleia2> but otherwise it seems fine :)
<pleia2> doctormo: lol
<cprofitt> I am thinking one 'head' position and a council of four perhaps...
<Vantrax> that sounds good
<pleia2> why?
<thewrath> pleia2: agreed. members should be voted on
<cprofitt> not sure of anyone's size thoughts
<nhandler> With cprofitt = head
<doctormo> cprofitt: -1, I don't think we need a head yet, none of us are yet in focus of the shared directives.
<pleia2> doctormo: +1
<cprofitt> doctormo, I agree with waiting on the head...
<Vantrax> doctormo: that is also a reason for a head, to give direction
<nhandler> cprofitt: I think the "council" should have different people who have experience in the different areas/teams we are working with
<DougieRichardson> There are only 19 people in ubuntu-learning, how many people are you envisaging in this venture and should it be this centrally controlled
<cprofitt> but I think there is a reason for one as we move forward
<thewrath> doctormo:  +1
<doctormo> Vantrax: In this case, direction is an amalgamation of overlapping priorities, not something that isn't defined.
<cprofitt> DougieRichardson, I envision many in the future... and many of those will also join the projects aligned with out efforts
<pleia2> right, so the "direction" of the project isn't always going to be best-served by a single leader
<pleia2> we come from lots of places and presumably all the board members will have different priorities (this will be healthy)
<cprofitt> I was not looking at the head being an overlord
<cprofitt> but a 'lead contact'
<cprofitt> and tie-breaker
<thewrath> cprofitt: +1
<cprofitt> if we have no 'head' then we need 3 or 5 member board...
<thewrath> i like that idea. that should be what it is and not a lord
<pleia2> I'm unconvinced
<doctormo> A lead will be useful when we have someone who has joined from no other groups, who has contributed a great deal and is focused on the directives that form out of us as a group.
<Vantrax> this is, and should always remain a colaberative process
<doctormo> Then we can have a head.
<cprofitt> doctormo, pleia2 do we need a lead contact?
<pleia2> cprofitt: I don't think so
<cprofitt> doctormo, pleia2 do we need an odd number on the board?
<doctormo> Yes
<pleia2> yes, odd number
<cprofitt> 3 or 5?
<nhandler> I think an odd number is good to have for votes
<pleia2> 5
<nhandler> 5 imo
<doctormo> 5
<thewrath> if no dead def an odd number on the board
<thewrath> 5 sounds good
<thewrath> *lead not dead
<cprofitt> ok... lets vote on that
<cprofitt> [VOTE] Ubuntu-Learning will have a five person board
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Ubuntu-Learning will have a five person board.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Vantrax> +1
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<thewrath> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from thewrath. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nhandler> +1
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<doctormo> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from doctormo. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<DougieRichardson> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from DougieRichardson. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 6
<cprofitt> [AGREED] Ubuntu-Learning will have a five person board
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Ubuntu-Learning will have a five person board
<Vantrax> i would recommend the initial board be cp, bodhi, pleia, dr mo, and myself.
<cprofitt> Should we vote for the board members?
<cprofitt> not now... but next meeting
<thewrath> i think we should have a proposal of how is interested and why they should be on the board
<Vantrax> yes, next meeting i would say
<thewrath> liek the fg leads in bt cprofitt ?
<cprofitt> ok....
<thewrath> *without the question mark
<cprofitt> then I will create a page and people interested in being on the board can add their name, etc?
<pleia2> cprofitt: +1
<cprofitt> so we know who is interested
<cprofitt> [ACTION] cprofitt will make wiki page for board candidates
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cprofitt will make wiki page for board candidates
<Vantrax> please do cp, link it the agenda
<yvan300> cprofitt: +1 great idea
<doctormo> I gotta get me a MootBot
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Meetings: Determine a 'best' time schedule for meetings.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Meetings: Determine a 'best' time schedule for meetings.
<cprofitt> Can everyone post their time zone
<nhandler> I think we should consider using Doodle to schedule meetings
<Vantrax> GMT+10
<nhandler> [LINK] http://www.doodle.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.doodle.com/
<cprofitt> EDT (GMT-4)
<yvan300> cprofitt: most of us live in the western hemisphere
<nhandler> UTC-5
<pleia2> EDT (GMT-4)
<DougieRichardson> UTC+1
<thewrath> UTC -5
<yvan300> let me find out
<pleia2> thewrath: you're in my state, you're -4 :)
<thewrath> pleia2:  ty
<cprofitt> yeah... its UTC-5 when we are EST
<cprofitt> we are EDT now... GMT-4
<thewrath> pleia2: now its -4 seveal months from now its -5
<doctormo> is doodle foss?
<pleia2> thewrath: you are mistaken
<nhandler> doctormo: I don't know, but we use it for other teams. It is an online tool (no registration needed)
<cprofitt> nhandler, what does doodle do for scheduling?
<pleia2> oh yes, I used doodle just recently
<doctormo> nhandler: would be nice if this sort of thing was a druple/django module of some sort. bug beggars can't be choosers.
<yvan300> i'm the same as thewrath
<Vantrax> why not use gcal?
<nhandler> cprofitt: You create a table listing possible dates and times. Users can then mark which dates/times work for them. It then displays the results in a nice table
<cprofitt> Vantrax, what time zone are you?
<cprofitt> ah... I found it back a ways
<cprofitt> GMT+10
<nhandler> Vantrax: gcal is only good for displaying the final meeting time, not choosing one
<Vantrax> ^ GMT +10
<pleia2> doodle example: http://doodle.com/fquzy498htwcv5ny
<cprofitt> does doodle adjust for local times?
<cprofitt> or is it set to one time?
<nhandler> Yes cprofitt
<nhandler> Each user can specify their time zone to have the possible times adjusted
<cprofitt> nhandler, do you want to set one up for us then?
<nhandler> cprofitt: Sure
<cprofitt> thanks
<nhandler> We are only interested in choosing a time, right? Not a date?
<cprofitt> I would like to pick a 'day' and time
<pleia2> well, I'd like to see a weekend vs weekday option
<cprofitt> and we need to decide if weekends / weekdays are good.
<DougieRichardson> If everyone shows a typical week's availabilty we get a better guess at a time
<pleia2> DougieRichardson: +1
<cprofitt> I am thinking we need to meet every other week right now...
<cprofitt> +1 DougieRichardson
<cprofitt> what about frequency folks?
<pleia2> cprofitt: every 2 weeks for now
<Vantrax> fortnightly
<doctormo> I'm available all times that the jobless usually are (except 00:00 to 07:00 EST, sleep)
<pleia2> we can adjust as needed
<pleia2> doctormo: bah, sleep :)
<nhandler> Ok, I'll setup the Doodle so we can choose a day of week and time
<cprofitt> [AGREED] meetings every other week
<MootBot> AGREED received:  meetings every other week
<cprofitt> thanks nhandler
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Rationale: We need to document what the rationale is for forming a new 'team' or creating a 'project' for review by the Community Council
<MootBot> New Topic:  Rationale: We need to document what the rationale is for forming a new 'team' or creating a 'project' for review by the Community Council
<cprofitt> This was a request from bodhi
<cprofitt> and I agree we need this to be a more comprehensive document in the end
<yvan300> cprofitt: can you explain the topic more
<pleia2> cprofitt: should we just add our thoughts to the rationale page?
<cprofitt> bodhi wants to present the project to the Community Council on June 2nd
<cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale
<cprofitt> Yes, please everyone add your thoughts on that page
<cprofitt> We will want to have a complete 'charter' or 'specification' in the end
<cprofitt> but bodhi wants us to have the rationale by June 2nd
<pleia2> we will have another meeting before then
<cprofitt> From the individual notes I will try to craft a draft... and we can vote on it next time
 * pleia2 nods
<DougieRichardson> It needs to follow this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecSpec
<cprofitt> by they way anyone who wears a fancy hat (Martin) gets bonus points for his ideas
<cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecSpec
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecSpec
 * cprofitt smiles
<DougieRichardson> The rationale is one part but the usage cases are the most important thing, IME
<doctormo> cprofitt: If it needs it, we should create a slight tree rationale where items that veer slightly are given their own sub-projects.
<cprofitt> sounds good...
<thewrath> doctormo: +1
<DougieRichardson> If the usage cases are clear, other projects will grasp the advatage of the project quicker
<cprofitt> everyone ok with process?
<pleia2> yep
<doctormo> From a very quick analsys we may end up with learning vectors as sub-projects. irc, locos, forums etc etc
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Review of announcement to Planet, and a call for input on program content. (Vantrax)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of announcement to Planet, and a call for input on program content. (Vantrax)
<Vantrax> everyone read the post im going to be putting up?
<nhandler> No, link?
<Vantrax> its in the agenda
<nhandler> Ah
<Vantrax> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
<cprofitt> My personal thought upon quick read of the announcement is that we need to rework it given the mission statement change.
<Vantrax> yep, i will update that bit
<DougieRichardson> When are you thinking of releasing this?
<cprofitt> The intention part of it reflects the original mission Vantrax posted, but not the new one.
<doctormo> Should those goals be meeting actions?
<pleia2> Vantrax: I mentioned it before, but we want to be very careful about our use of the word "training" - perhaps to the extent of not using it *at all* in our documentation
<cprofitt> I am also thinking we may want to wait until we have the rationale done and after the CC meeting; but unsure of the process potential projects take
<pleia2> unless it's very specifically targeted :)
<Vantrax> yeah, that is a point, but we are doing training, and its hard not to mention it
<pleia2> we're "learning" and "education"
<doctormo> pleia2: And for money, i.e. libal
<cprofitt> I also think that the initial goal has to be expanded to include the idea of enabling teams to use Moodle to improve their existing training options
<DougieRichardson> cprofitt: We should wait until the CC meeting.
<thewrath> instead of training why not use educating and teaching?
<Vantrax> cprofitt: this int a potential project, it has been approved by canonical. The CC meeting is more an annoucement.
<doctormo> cprofitt: Teaching the tools and skills of teaching will be section 0,
<Vantrax> an explanation of what we are doing if you will
<pleia2> Vantrax: s/We want to take users and turn them into contributing members of the community./We want to take users and turn them into contributing members of the community and expert users of Ubuntu.
<pleia2> or somesuch
<thewrath> pleia2: +1
<doctormo> pleia2: +1, much more balanced :-)
<cprofitt> We may have four tracks we all want to see, but the overall part of this project is 'improving' the educations efforts
<Vantrax> sounds good
<doctormo>  and expert users, maintainers and advocates of Ubuntu
<pleia2> doctormo: +1
<cprofitt> DougieRichardson, I agree we should wait until after the CC
<doctormo> Perhaps we should be less concerned about the topics in the description?
<cprofitt> Vantrax, despite Canonical approval this is a community project
<doctormo> I mean, mentioning Ubuntu yes, but the aim is teaching and equiping teachers, no?
<cprofitt> and needs approval from the community
<Vantrax> the aim is to create a self sustaining education system in the end
<doctormo> A school?
<doctormo> A university?
<pleia2> which includes teaching teachers, developing materials, coordinating sessions
<pleia2> advertising
<DougieRichardson> vantrax:it doesn't work like that. Canonical != Ubuntu
<cprofitt> [VOTE] Wait on announcement until after CC meeting
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Wait on announcement until after CC meeting.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<DougieRichardson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from DougieRichardson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nhandler> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<thewrath> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from thewrath. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<doctormo> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from doctormo. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Vantrax> DougieRichardson: Jono Bacon = community manager? he already said go for it
<Vantrax> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax. 5 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
<doctormo> Vantrax: the community is more than jono
<Vantrax> no argument there
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 5
<doctormo> Vantrax: he's more like the bridge from canonical to ubuntu with a bit of organisational flair.
<cprofitt> [AGREED] Announcement will wait until after the CC meeting
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Announcement will wait until after the CC meeting
<DougieRichardson> vantrax: if we go to a CC meeting proclaiming an announcement, it will be rejected.
<thewrath> i agree with DougieRichardson after they have given us approval then announcement
<cprofitt> thank you doctormo DougieRichardson and pleia2 for your advice in regards to the CC
<Vantrax> fair enough:P
<cprofitt> I respect you all and greatly appreciate the advice
<Vantrax> <- is playing devils advocate tonight
<cprofitt> Vantrax, will your reword the announcement and put it on a draft page?
<Vantrax> sure
<pleia2> Vantrax: someone has to :) cheers
<cprofitt> thanks.
<Vantrax> ill link it into the agenda for the next meeting
<cprofitt> Anyone have any non-agenda items?
<doctormo> Decent will be tollerated with a pillowed fist!
<Vantrax> lol
<cprofitt> Dissent ?
<cprofitt> or Decent?
 * cprofitt ponders
<doctormo> cprofitt: yea, creative dislexia
<Vantrax> eww
<doctormo> sorry
<cprofitt> doctormo, all forgiven with your hat
<cprofitt> [ENDMEETING]
<nhandler> #endmeeting
<cprofitt> #ENDMEETING
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:55.
<cprofitt> thanks everyone...
<cprofitt> very productive...
<cprofitt> I appreciate all the fantastic work everyone has put in.
<doctormo> So the mode of the learning team is "under construction" until the announcement
<Vantrax> more or less
<thewrath> i would defatinatly would like to help out with anything i can
<DougieRichardson> Out of interest, how many are here from other interested teams?
<thewrath> i think this group will succceed and hoping that maybe ubuntu can be taught in high schools or colleges around thw rold
<nhandler> o/
<thewrath> yes nhandler ?
<pleia2> DougieRichardson: bugsquad is interested but they aren't here, motu school is already doing classes in -classroom
<doctormo> DougieRichardson: I'm from the LoCo interest, I focus on physical classroom events with local none ubuntu using public.
<nhandler> thewrath: I'm just saying that I am with motu ;)
<thewrath> ah
<thewrath> sorry nhandler misunderstood what you were saying
<doctormo> shall we move this lack to #ubuntu-learning?
<thewrath> yea
<thewrath> lol
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-10
<Vantrax> man, i need to be able to ssh into the darn server as root >.<
<Vantrax> can fix this darn permissions error on my website >.<
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-10
<MetisRebel> hello?
<halvors> Will the meeting for Asia/Oceania be here tomorrow?
<drubin> halvors: Please read the docs on the wiki. You know it will be here since you asked this yesterday
<halvors> OK, i only will be sure. Sorry ;)
<halvors> The meeting tomorrow will be 1-2 hours long?
<ari-tczew> probably just
<halvors> only 1 hour ?
<ari-tczew> halvors: why you ask?
<halvors> maybe i not will come before  10.30
<drubin> halvors: You should be there at the start of the meeting.
<halvors> ok
<halvors> i will try
<halvors> but if i dont so...?
<halvors> if i be there 11.30
<halvors> 10.30 sry
<halvors> so can i dont be a member :(
<ari-tczew> halvors: in which meeting are you interested tommorow?
<halvors> asia
<halvors> meeting
<ari-tczew> heh, e.g. I'm interested in DMB Agenda meeting tommorow, 15:00 UTC
<zanzibar1982> ciao a tutti!
<zanzibar1982> :-Dammazza, si sente l'eco, qui...
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-11
<halvors> Will the meeing beiginnow or?
<cody-somerville> jussi, I think I fixed the UTC issue with gcalendar.
<cody-somerville> jussi, (a little while ago)
<cody-somerville> jussi, Can you confirm if its still an issue or not?
<jussi> cody-somerville: err, which issue? Im at uds and some whatconcentrating on other stuff.
 * jussi defers to tsimpson
<cody-somerville> jussi, /topic
<jussi> cody-somerville: ahh, yeah. tsimpson can give you all the info on that.
<cody-somerville> tsimpson, :)
<halvors> When will new Ubuntu Members be taken up?
<tsimpson> jussi: I can?
<halvors> Can what?
<tsimpson> !member | halvors
<ubottu> halvors: Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<jussi> apw:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                C
<halvors> Yes i have done all this ;)
<halvors> Only waiting for the meeting to start ;)
<tsimpson> halvors: which meeting are you waiting for?
<halvors> AsiaOceania
<halvors> It will begin now
<halvors> ;)
<halvors> hehe | ubottu
<halvors> !none
<tsimpson> 10:00 utc is in an hour
<halvors> Ok, the meeting begin 12:00 GMT +1?
<tsimpson> at 11:00 GMT+1
<tsimpson> UTC is the same time as GMT
<elky> Ooh, so I do get to go home first? Yay!
<halvors> My clock is 11 now
<halvors> so the meeting have to begin now or have i taken fail?
<elky> halvors, you need to wait for one hour
<halvors> ok
<halvors> i misunderstand sorry ;)
<tsimpson> halvors: it's 09:03 UTC now
<halvors> thanks
<elky> halvors, you can always check UTC time by typign "date -u" in your terminal
<halvors> Meeting begin?
<amachu> halvors: few min
<halvors> Ok, a am waiting ;)
<amachu> persia: elky: Hi
<Vantrax> how many do we have here?
<elky> amachu, o/
<freeflying> hi all
<halvors> hi
<amachu> freeflying: Hi
<freeflying> amachu: hey, long time no see :)
<amachu> Vantrax: Hello!
<elky> we do have quorum I believe
<elky> Shall we begin?
<halvors> yes ;)
<amachu> elky: yes
 * elky wonders if she remembers how the bot works...
 * Vantrax is ready
<elky> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 05:02. The chair is elky.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<elky> :D
<amachu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<elky> is nasirkhan amongst us as a different name
<elky> ?
<amachu> elky: persia, takdir, lifeless are missing though
<elky> amachu, quorum is 4 afaik.
<halvors> I am here ;)
<halvors> also i am Halvor Lyche Strandvoll
<amachu> elky: I understand, we shall kick off
<amachu> halvors: Please wait
<halvors> For?
<amachu> nasirkhan is not here
<elky> halvors, the person listed above you to have a chance to show up
<elky> he's also known as saikat says launchpad
<amachu> halvors: there is a name before yours, just wanted to ensure he isn't here before considering you
<ejat> yes
<ejat> 0/
<halvors> yes i understand ;)
<amachu> Vantrax: freeflying: We have begun
<freeflying> amachu: yes
<amachu> halvors: yes, go ahead..
<halvors> yes...
<halvors> so
<halvors> ...
<ejat> takdir will be late a bit ... prayer time in ID
<elky> ejat, aha, thank you
<ejat> elky : :)
<Vantrax> Halvors, can you tell us a little about yourself and your contribution?
<amachu> halvors: are you there?
<halvors> I come from Norway, i live in a small city Asker, near Olso.
<halvors> Yes i am here ;)
<elky> halvors, you need to explain to us why you deserve membership
<amachu> halvors: https://translations.launchpad.net/~halvors/+activity is that all your contributions?
<halvors> And i want to be a member of Ubuntu and help transelate Ubuntu into Norwegian, i will transelate primary to NO_nb but maybe to NO_nb too
<halvors> Yes, i have been more active here at IRC, in the Ubuntu Server channel
<halvors> And i need to be a member og Ubuntu to be a member of Ubuntu Norwegian Transelators.
<halvors> Are you there?
<Vantrax> we are
<freeflying> halvors: you done?
<halvors> Yes, if there is no more somone will know...
<amachu> halvors: are there people here to support your nomination?
<elky> launchpad is excruciatingly slow for me today
<halvors> As said i will be more active if i be a Ubuntu memeber.
<halvors> No, i not think.
<ejat> halvors .. is it need to be that way?
<freeflying> halvors: why don't you try to apply from EMEA meeting? since you're living in a Europe timezone
<halvors> Becouse it is so long time until
<halvors> Here somone said to me that i could use Asia/Oceania instead
<Vantrax> I am curious how you need to be a member of Ubuntu to be a member of Norwegian Translators, I
<Vantrax> er I have never heard of that as a requirement
<elky> Vantrax, yeah, that sounds quite odd
<halvors> No, meybe
<halvors> maybe sry
<freeflying> halvors: as amachu asked, do you have anyone here to support you?
<elky> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~halvors
<halvors> I only heard that when i requested to Ubuntu Norwegian Transelators
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~halvors
<elky> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/halvors
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/halvors
<takdir> sorry i'm late
<halvors> No.. Who should that be?
<elky> Ok, well, i'm sorry but I'm going to vote -1 for you today. It seems we have some issues to discuss with the norwegian translators, but you have not done enough for membership in my opinion.
<Vantrax> halvors, i think you have made a great start in your contributions
<Vantrax> but ubuntu membership is a reward for significant and sustained contributions to ubuntu
<elky> [VOTE] halvors for member
<MootBot> Please vote on:  halvors for member.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<elky> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from elky. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<amachu> halvors: I can notice contributions from you, but they aren't substantial enough to give a +1 in favour. Good start..
<ejat> -1 for me to since halvors not in the norwegian translator team
<MootBot> -1 received from ejat. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<Vantrax> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Vantrax. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<freeflying> _1
<freeflying> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from freeflying. 0 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -4
<elky> We will work with you to get through this requirement.
<Vantrax> I think we will have to find out about you not being able to join, that seems to be an area of consern
<elky> But right now, we're not going to make you a member just so you can join it.
<elky> It doesn't fix what's broken if we do :)
<Vantrax> I think you are making a great start to your contribution but I would like to see it continue over a longer period
<amachu> probably if it is some issue about joining Norweign LoCo, you shall talk to jono
<Vantrax> translation team i think
<halvors> Ok, i understand.
<Vantrax> ill find out who is in charge of the team and double check that requirement. It should not be there
<halvors> Someone could help me get inside the Ubuntu Norwegian Translators?
<elky> halvors, we will, yes.
<Vantrax> We will halvors
<amachu> contact the LoCo contact person
<amachu> have you tried?
<amachu> halvors: is it a Loco + translation team?
<halvors> So should i try to request new membership at Ubuntu Norwegian transelators?
<Vantrax> are you involved in the Norwegian loco?
<halvors> loco?
<Vantrax> the local ubuntu club if you prefer
<elky> halvors, could you provide us with links to the launchpad teams you are trying to join?
<halvors> I am norwegian and a i am i Norway now
<Vantrax> locos are local user groups that promote and work with ubuntu in their countries/states
<elky> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 4 against. 0 abstained. Total: -4
<amachu> are you in touch with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hubuntu
<Vantrax> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams?action=show&redirect=LoCo
<amachu> elky: I gave +0
<amachu> elky: and appears you have closed voting
<halvors> no
<elky> amachu, oh, sorry, i thought we all voted
<amachu> ejat: voted in between
<amachu> that counted for -4
<amachu> elky: no probs
<amachu> halvors: suggest you contact the team, and if you couldn't get a respose contact the loco-contacts list or jono
<halvors> Here is the team i try to join: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-no
<Vantrax> halvors, if you get in touch with your loco, and the guys in your local ubuntu channel
<takdir> halvors, it's better if there is some testimonial for you at your wiki from ubuntu norwegian translators or your loco team
<elky> halvors, have you ever been in #ubuntu-no ?
<halvors> I have waited for membership in norwegian transelators
<ejat> anyone from here from ubuntu-no to support u halvors ?
<halvors> in 2 mouths
<halvors> Nope
<Vantrax> halvors you can definately contribute to translations without being in that team, that group is responsible for reviewing and approving translation submissions
<amachu> fine..
<amachu> nasirkhan isn't here..
<amachu> and welcome takdir Vantrax :-)
<Vantrax> o/
<halvors> What should i do for be a member of ubuntu?
<halvors> also more
<ejat> welcome to both of u :)
<takdir> :)
<Vantrax> contribute more, what you have already been doing over a longer period of time
<Vantrax> also get involved in your loco (the people in #ubuntu-no will help)
<halvors> ok
<halvors> thanks
<takdir> halvors, if have blog, you can write your activity for ubuntu and post some pictures
<amachu> halvors: there has be some credible proof of sustained contribution for Ubuntu..
<halvors> hope i can be a member for next meeting ;)
<amachu> halvors: there has to be some credible proof of sustained contribution for Ubuntu..
<Vantrax> no problem, i hope to see you back here again in a few months with some testimonials on your wiki and a crowd to cheer you on
<ejat> get involved with ubuntu-no activities ... then from there u may see what u can contribute ...
<halvors> ;)
<elky> halvors, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NorwegianTeam will be of use to you if you have not already seen it
<Vantrax> anyone else?
<elky> ejat, should we wait around for nasir?
<ejat> its up to the board ..
 * ejat open for it .. 
<Vantrax> ill wait
<elky> i'll wait too
<ejat> :)
<amachu> probably for another five minutes
<amachu> :-)
<amachu> ejat: your wiki page?
<ejat> amachu : wiki.ubuntu.com/fenris
 * ejat need to update to latest info .. :( sorry for that .. 
 * ejat in ubuntu training at Monash University ...  2 things need to be done at one time .. but its ok 
<amachu> ok
<amachu> lifeless: persia: silent today? Hmm.. strange thing to happen..
<czajkowski> amachu: persia is at UDS
<czajkowski> possibly in the middle of a session
<elky> and so is lifeless
<ejat> owh .. concerntration in session :)
<halvors> thanks
<ejat> has 5 minute past?
<amachu> czajkowski: thanks for the info
<elky> amachu, on the other hand, this is why we now have this many members :)
<amachu> elky: I have to leave now,  there is quorum without me..
 * ejat need to learn more from u guys .. 
<elky> amachu, that's fine. have fun
<Vantrax> later
<ejat> amachu : see u soon ..
<amachu> elky: ejat: Vantrax: takdir: all four of you, if you can wait, its fine..
<amachu> else declare the meeting is over..
<amachu> am leaving now..
<Vantrax> i will wait
 * amachu is away: Gone away for now
<takdir> amachu, ok, i'll wait
<freeflying> i'm leaving as well
 * ejat still waiting ..... 
<Vantrax> me too, for another 5 min
<elky> yeah, I think we need to finish so other meetings can happen
<takdir> may be nasir will not come
<elky> ejat, have you been talking to nasir?
<ejat> elky : no ..
<takdir> now is 10.58 UTC :)
<Vantrax> we done
<Vantrax> hes not comin
<Vantrax> elky can you close?
<takdir> yup
<ejat> i think .. can end the meeting
<elky> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 05:59.
<halvors> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 06:32. The chair is halvors.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<halvors> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:32.
<Pretto> does anyone knows where do I find the official cd cover art for download
 * lfaraone waves at geser.
<ari-tczew> hello
<soren> o/
<lfaraone> So, are we going to have a meeting today, or is UDS going to trump it?
<Sylvestre> on the wiki, "Next DMB meeting: May 11th, 2010 15:00 UTC"
<ari-tczew> may someone else will be a chairman today?
<ari-tczew> e.g. persia
<soren> There's a session allocated at UDS for it.
<soren> I have no idea why people aren't in it.
<lfaraone> soren: are you at UDS?
<soren> lfaraone: Yes.
<lfaraone> soren: ring some doorbells? :)
<CardinalFang> Hi.  Is there a Membership Board meeting now?
<soren> I'm in my room. The conference rooms are far away :)
<lfaraone> CardinalFang: there should be one.
<cody-somerville> Hey
 * cody-somerville wonders where everyone is too.
<soren> o/
<soren> cody-somerville: Are you in the room?
<cody-somerville> soren, I am.
<cody-somerville> soren, or I think I'm in the right rom.
<soren> cody-somerville: Rosewood?
<soren> cody-somerville: I'm in my own room, so my not being there is expected :)
 * smoser is present
<ari-tczew> 4 DMB members are necessary for meeting right?
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: Yes.
<ari-tczew> there are only 2 ?
<ari-tczew> maybe kees can join meeting?
<lfaraone> cody-somerville, soren, maybe call persia / geser ?
<dobey> hmm
 * smoser goes to try to locate someone
<cody-somerville> nixternal, ping
<cody-somerville> stgraber, ping
<cody-somerville> geser, ping
<cody-somerville> persia, ping
<cody-somerville> cjwatson said he won't be able to make the first half of the meeting.
<ari-tczew> kees, ping
<nixternal> pongers
<kees> ari-tczew: hello
<ari-tczew> kees: can you join this meeting now? we're looking for DMB members
<smoser> i pinged persia in hallway
<nixternal> you mean james bond?
<dobey> persia is here
<kees> ari-tczew: I can't, I'm in a another meeting
<ari-tczew> :(
<nixternal> I am guessing persia is probably in "Review and Planning for Distributed Development"
<nixternal> nevermind, there he is now :)
<cody-somerville> :}
<lfaraone> Okay, I think we're set then.
 * lfaraone has to be out by 16h UTC.
<nixternal> neversfelde_: you around?
<ari-tczew> members of Ubuntu Technical Board are members of DMB as well?
<nixternal> just in case this meeting does go on and we can get enough members
<cody-somerville> nixternal, Do you want to chair? stgraber doesn't appear to be around.
<nixternal> sure, wanna make sure we have enough members first
<cody-somerville> geser, ping ping ping
<neversfelde_> only with mobile phone atm, I will need 20 min to get to a place with network access
<nixternal> neversfelde_: groovy, i want to make sure you get your stuff heard today...right now it seems 2, maybe 3 of us are here from the dmb today
<nixternal> silly uds :)
<ari-tczew> mdz, Keybuk ping
<nixternal> ari-tczew: they aren't DMB members
<soren> ari-tczew: They're not DMB.
<czajkowski> ari-tczew: just saw mdz head into a uds session
<persia____> We have four: Cody, Soren, Richard, and myself.
<nixternal> they are the tech board
<nixternal> rock on!
 * JamieBennett is here if you get around to him
<nixternal> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:19. The chair is nixternal.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cody-somerville> and Colin just showed up
<nixternal> [TOPIC]Review of previous action items:
<MootBot> New Topic: Review of previous action items:
<Sylvestre> FYI: I am on the agenda and I have to leave at 16h20 UTC
<nixternal> persia____: updates?
<cjwatson> here
<ari-tczew> oh, sorry, ~techboard (Ubuntu Technical Board) is a subteam of DMB, this is confusing
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: that's administrative and doesn't reflect the actual board
<ari-tczew> ok, let's start metting
<ari-tczew> meeting *
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: we already did, see above.
<persia____> I did update the wiki pages.
<nixternal> persia____: thanks!
<ari-tczew> okok
<cjwatson> I didn't create the team yet (please carry that over) but have obviously scheduled this meeting :-)
 * geser is finally there
<nixternal> haha, I was just going to ask you :)
<geser> sorry, was having lunch
<ari-tczew> geser come back!
<persia____> I've also spoken to TheMuso: reasons for not commenting for abogani are 1) work not up to quality in intrepid, not closely worked with him since then.
<nixternal> groovy persia____, thanks!
<nixternal> stgraber and soren: did you vote on Rodrigos app? I have been busing with job interviews for the past 2 weeks, so I have been a bit afk
<nixternal> s/busing/busy
<lfaraone> nixternal: I think stgraber coudln't make it.
<nixternal> still, need to add him to the minutes here
<nixternal> even though they aren't here, we don't leave them out
<soren> nixternal: I sent my +1's (as I did to the chair on IRC), but they don't seem to have landed in the list archives.
<nixternal> rock on! thanks soren
<nixternal> ok...
<nixternal> [TOPIC]Administrative Matters
<MootBot> New Topic: Administrative Matters
<nixternal> heh, I take it we didn't consider changing the ordering just yet? :)
<cjwatson> I have no background on this agenda item
<nixternal> should we have a vote on doing membership stuff the first hour?
<cody-somerville> I added that.
<cjwatson> I do think it seems to take us too long agonising before we get started :-)
<nixternal> we don't want to be doing 2 hour meetings....i say spend an hour on membership if there are that many, and then use the rest of the time to hit the other agenda items?
<cody-somerville> I'll write an e-mail to the list about this.
<nixternal> cody-somerville: thanks
<persia____> I think we should do administrative forst, but then focus on membership quickly.
<nixternal> [ACTION]Cody to write an e-mail to the list concerning the layout/format of the DMB meeting - membership first
<MootBot> ACTION received: Cody to write an e-mail to the list concerning the layout/format of the DMB meeting - membership first
<nixternal> ok, move on to membership stuff right now?
<cjwatson> please
<nixternal> who had to leave in a few minutes?
<Sylvestre> me but I still have 40 minutes
 * lfaraone by 16:10 or so.
<lfaraone> (really 15:50, but i can stretch it another 20 if I need to)
<JamieBennett> Hi, my name is Jamie Bennett. I currently work for Canonical on the Mobile team concentrating on ARM hardware.
<JamieBennett> Although officially I work on ARM specific stuff, I do development on a wider scale.
<JamieBennett> heh
<JamieBennett> cut and paste to wrong window, sorry
<nixternal> [TOPIC] Sylvestre Ledru PPU Application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sylvestre Ledru PPU Application
<nixternal> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SylvestreLedru/MyApplication
<ari-tczew> I have time, I'm not going out
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SylvestreLedru/MyApplication
<nixternal> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~sylvestre-ledru
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~sylvestre-ledru
<Sylvestre> So, you want me to introduce myself now ?
<nixternal> Sylvestre: a quick intro will be fine while we work up some questions for you
<Sylvestre> ok
<Sylvestre> thx
<Sylvestre> My full time work is being a core developer on Scilab and in charge of the Linux / Unix / Mac version of the software.
<Sylvestre> I am also a Debian Developer, leader of the Debian Science team and involved in the Debian Java team.
<Sylvestre> I maintain Scilab and most of it dependencies (like some pretty borring one like atlas). I also maitain some other packages like guake.
<Sylvestre> On the overall, if I apply, it is that I would like to be able to manage directly into Ubuntu the most important packages (Scilab, guake, atlas, blas, lapack) to make sure that Ubuntu is shipped with the right versions of ""my"" packages.
<cjwatson> Sylvestre: just on an administrative note, it would help to have an explicit package list - your DDPO page has packages in a few categories (primary maintainer, sponsored upload, NMU, etc.) and it would be easier to deal with an explicit list
<nixternal> Sylvestre: are you looking at 42 packages to have PPU for?
<persia____> Sylvestre: You're clearly very active in thses packages in Debian.  Could you share some of your thoughts on how the Ubuntu release cycle differs from Debian, and how this might affect when or what should be uploaded?
<cjwatson> what do you consider the "right versions"?
<cjwatson> this is a deliberately vague question :-)
<Sylvestre> oh, plenty of questions
<Sylvestre> about the list, some of my package are not very important (worldwind, some 'useless' libs, etc), I can do a list of what seems important
<Sylvestre> I don't know if you have a way to help DD on this subject for the list of packages
<cody-somerville> Sylvestre, With regards to the packages you're looking for upload permissions for, do you work closely with the Ubuntu developers who work on those packages in Ubuntu?
<Sylvestre> cody-somerville, my concern is that they are not really someone working of these packages
<cjwatson> I'm just asking for an explicit list of the packages you're applying for; I'm not trying to pass judgement on their importance
<cody-somerville> Sylvestre, For some of them there definitely is.
<Sylvestre> blas, lapack, atlas are critical in the scientific world and AFAIK, they are not really maintained on the ubuntu side
<cjwatson> (because I may have to sit and tell Launchpad about the permission changes on each of those and I'm going to need that to be 'for x in foo bar baz;')
<cjwatson> I agree the atlas stack is at best undermaintained
<cjwatson> of course note that we actually regard it as a feature that packages are synced where possible, although obviously somebody needs to be paying attention to bugs
<Sylvestre> persia____, I think that Debian is too exigent for its release, the degree of quality is too high. I am happy with testing but for "normal users", I defintely prefer Ubuntu
<Sylvestre> cjwatson, I really like working with team, I'll be happy to work with others on the package I maintain (as long as we agree on a common Vcs)
<persia____> Sylvestre: I'm more looking for your thoughts on how things would differ from a developer perspective?  What do you think you'd have to do differently, etc.
<cody-somerville> Sylvestre, What VCS would that be?
<nixternal> it looks like all of your packages are being sync'd from Debian->Ubuntu
<Sylvestre> Debian-science svn or git for science packages
<Sylvestre> I am using torsten werner svn for non java / science packages
<Sylvestre> I don't know bzr but I don't mind learning
<cody-somerville> Sylvestre, Are you familiar with Ubuntu's model of maintaining packages communally?
<geser> Sylvestre: your LP page doesn't show any sponsored uploads. Was there no need for e.g. sync requests after DIF to pull fixes from Debian to Ubuntu or did someone else those?
<Sylvestre> (sorry, I am doing the list)
<Sylvestre> the list would be atlas, blas, code-saturne and its dependencies (ecs, libbft, libcgns, libfvm, libmei) Scilab and its dependencies (flexdock, jeuclid, jhdf, libjgraphx-java, libjlatexmath-java, libjogl-java, libjrosetta-java, libmatio,libskinlf-java),
<Sylvestre> I can also maintain guake and fwbuilder since they seems pretty used in Ubuntu
<cjwatson> that seems like a reasonable list, thanks
<Sylvestre> cody-somerville, not sure to understand exactly your question
<nixternal> Sylvestre: you are already maintaining them, though upstream, they are all being sync'd to ubuntu from what I could see :)
<Sylvestre> geser, indeed, I have been waiting for the automatic sync
<nixternal> which is a good thing btw
<Sylvestre> nixternal, yes, I just liked to be able to sync when I want (and when ubuntu is not freeze)
<Sylvestre> especially since I deeply changed the blas/lapack/atlas stuff (which is a dependency of more than 300 packages)
<Sylvestre> http://bit.ly/bcibeF
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bit.ly/bcibeF
<nixternal> I am fairly certain though that PPU/MOTU/Core-Dev doesn't give you anymore of an advantage of synching than a typical user/contributor...you still request a sync the same way right?
<cjwatson> um
<cjwatson> if someone who can upload a package requests a sync, we will execute it without question (assuming that we're not in freeze, whatever)
<nixternal> at least that's how I always did it...don't tell me there was an easier way that I never looked at persuing :)
<cjwatson> they could upload it directly anyway
<nixternal> cjwatson: ahh, yeah...
<cjwatson> if somebody who can't upload a package requests a sync, we will make them get sponsorship
<cjwatson> in future, people with upload permissions will be able to sync directly by pressing a button in LP
<nixternal> right...
<geser> Sylvestre: in your "What I like least in Ubuntu" section, you mention the missing "feedback" from Ubuntu to Debian. Have you some ideas on how we can improve that?
<nixternal> cjwatson: "future" :D
<cjwatson> therefore it is perfectly reasonable for people to apply for upload privileges on the basis that they want more convenient syncs
<cjwatson> nixternal: near future
<Sylvestre> Well, I don't really want to fill many requests and check on them if they have been done or not
<nixternal> rock on!
<nixternal> no way I am doubting Sylvestre experience anyways, he has more Debian packages than I do :)
<Sylvestre> geser, for example, it would be great to have an option in Launchpad to say "OK, I am a DD and I would like to be informed of any upload from Ubuntu, any bug reports on 'my' packages"
 * lfaraone also would like that feature. *goes off to file a request*
<Sylvestre> Zack is going to talk about that at UDS
<cjwatson> I think that would get support as long as people can figure out how to design it
<persia____> Sylvestre: So, some sort of subscribe-all-the-packages-where-I'm-listed-as -maintainer button?
<Sylvestre> exactly
<nixternal> that would be a nice feature, instead of going to every package and subscribing manually
<nixternal> ok, everyone ready to vote? anymore questions?
<Sylvestre> I did that once but I have to do it for each new package :/
<cody-somerville> Sylvestre, If a Ubuntu developer upload a change to a package you maintain in Debian that you disagree with, what would you do?
<nixternal> ooh good q? there
<cody-somerville> I'd still like to hear thoughts on how behaviours may differ in preparing uploads for Debian and Ubuntu.
<Sylvestre> Depends on the kind of changes, if it is an icon, I won't mind (or I will detect ubuntu or debian and switch it)
<Sylvestre> if it is a bigger issue, I usually like to ask on a mailing list if my solution is crap or not
<Sylvestre> I really don't care being wrong (as long as I hear good arguments)
<Sylvestre> (btw, most of my packages are team maintained)
<Sylvestre> I don't believe in the "one package = one maintainer" approch
 * cjwatson nods
<cjwatson> nixternal: no more questions from me
<nixternal> geser, persia____, cody-somerville? no more from me either
<cody-somerville> no more from me
<geser> no more for me either
<nixternal> persia____: ?
 * soren has no more questions either.
<persia____> I can vote.
<nixternal> oops, forgot about you :D
<nixternal> [VOTE] Sylvestre Ledru PPU Application
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Sylvestre Ledru PPU Application.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nixternal> +1
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia____> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia____. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<nixternal> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<nixternal> congrats Sylvestre!
<nixternal> cjwatson: you going to process all of those packages? :)
<Sylvestre> oh, many thanks :)
<lfaraone> nixternal: now, I have to leave RSN, I was wondering if I could go next.
<nixternal> lfaraone: yes, one sec
<cjwatson> after the meeting
<nixternal> [ACTION] cjwatson to process all of Sylvestre's packages for PPU
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to process all of Sylvestre's packages for PPU
<nixternal> :)
<nixternal> [TOPIC] Luke Faraone MOTU Application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Luke Faraone MOTU Application
<lfaraone> Hi, my name is Luke Faraone. I have been working on Ubuntu since 2007. I am a Debian Maintainer, and am currently going through the Debian New Maintainer process.
<lfaraone> My interest in Ubuntu MOTU work is twofold: fixing low-hanging fruit when I can find it, and handling sponsorship / syncing RC bugs fixes from Debian. I'm not one to come up with brilliant solutions to problems, so I prefer to leave that to others and handle the more straightforward, but potentially less interesting work myself.
<nixternal> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukeFaraone/MOTUApp
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukeFaraone/MOTUApp
<lfaraone> This summer I will be working full time on application development for Ubuntu.
<nixternal> [LINK]https://launchpad.net/~lfaraone
<MootBot> LINK received: https://launchpad.net/~lfaraone
<lfaraone> In Ubuntu, I've worked on a variety of packages reviewing the RCBugs list. A lot of my uploads were syncs, but they involved carefully checking the changelog during freezes and testing to ensure these packages built and installed in Lucid.
<lfaraone> (EOF)
<nixternal> lfaraone: in the 'what you like least' section, i take you are talking about how KDE apps look in GNOME? In KDE, GNOME apps are looking more and more native now, can't even tell the difference unless the underlying subsystem crashes, then it goes all 1980 looking on you :)
<lfaraone> nixternal: well, I hadn't tried Lucid on my main system when I wrote that :)
<geser> lfaraone: your sponsors mention that you should do some more checks before "uploads". Could you give some examples of what you have missed in the past?
<lfaraone> geser: I've forgotten to update the maintainer, for example. (during actual uploads, that is)
<lfaraone> geser: And occasionally I forget the suite. I've been combating that recently by triple-checking everything that I usually miss before submitting it to sponsors.
<lfaraone> *the correct suite; such as "karmic" instead of "karmic-updates"
<cjwatson> yeah, I've evolved a pretty paranoid set of wetware checks myself over time
<nixternal> if i don't update maintainer, debuild tells me about it and bombs out
<lfaraone> nixternal: as soon as I figure out how to do that, I'll implement that in an instant :)
<nixternal> i thought that was a default action, because I have never modified debuild to do it
<geser> that happens when you use your @ubuntu.com email address for the changelog
<lfaraone> nixternal: it's a warning, I think I've seen it on occasion, but it's not fatal IIRC.
<nixternal> geser: ahhhhhhh
<lfaraone> geser: ah, I use my personal email :)
<cjwatson> yeah, it's a slightly crudely odd check
<cjwatson> or oddly crude, or something
<nixternal> lol
<lfaraone> I'll put that on my to-investigate list.
<nixternal> i like that check, because maintainer for some reason is in the back of my head..but i always using my @ubuntu.com addy
<cody-somerville> lfaraone, Do you find making small mistakes is frequently a problem for you?
<cody-somerville> *is still
<cjwatson> I'm glad somebody is gardening the RC-fixes-not-in-Ubuntu list.  Is there anything we could do to improve handling of that?
<lfaraone> cody-somerville: No. I've been working very hard recently to ensure that doesn't happen.
<cjwatson> apart from just more people looking at it
<lfaraone> cjwatson: I'm not sure. It'd be nice to get more information in the UI itself, rather than having to reference several pages manually, but that's a task for someone with AJAX skills :)
<nixternal> lfaraone: something I did when I was doing the whole MOTU thing was I had a checklist....when I got MOTU, I was whicked anal retentive and would check not once, but twice, or three times...I even have a nack for testing building, installing and testing in a chroot, and installing it live on my system and running it to test for regressions...yeah, that means I am not putting it out whicked fast, but I am at least trying to get it out th
<cjwatson> mm, if somebody has a "simple guide to applying ajax to noddy web pages" I'd be interested ...
<nixternal> I broke kubuntu-docs in main enough times to learn quickly :)
<lfaraone> nixternal: yeah, I've since written one that I use. I'll publish it when I finish finals :)
<nixternal> hehe, nice
<nixternal> I have no more questions and am ready to vote, everyone else?
<cjwatson> likewise
<cody-somerville> I'm good.
 * geser too
 * persia____ is ready to vote
<nixternal> [VOTE]Luke Faraone MOTU Application
<MootBot> Please vote on: Luke Faraone MOTU Application.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia____> +1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia____. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cody-somerville> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<nixternal> soren: ?
<nixternal> 3
<nixternal> 2
<nixternal> 1
<nixternal> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<nixternal> :)
<lfaraone> Thank you. I have to go, but I greatly appreciate the trust you are putting in me.
<nixternal> lfaraone: groovy, congrats!
<nigelbabu> lfaraone: congrats
<nixternal> neversfelde: you here yet?
<lfaraone> (and with that, I'm out, to celebrate later!)
<neversfelde> yes
<nixternal> groovy
<nixternal> [TOPIC] Christian Mangold MOTU Application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Christian Mangold MOTU Application
<neversfelde> Hello, my name is Christian I am 30 years old and I currently live in Wuppertal, Germany.
<neversfelde> I'm contributing to Ubuntu for several years now and I mostly work with the Kubuntu team. I started packaging back at the beginning of the Karmic cycle and I want to take the next step now and become a MOTU.
<neversfelde> Details about my work are im my application https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChristianMangold/MOTUDeveloperApplication
<neversfelde> My personal wiki page is here http://wiki.kubuntu.org/ChristianMangold and my Launchpad profile here https://launchpad.net/~neversfelde
<nixternal> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChristianMangold/MOTUDeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChristianMangold/MOTUDeveloperApplication
<nixternal> [LINK]https://edge.launchpad.net/~neversfelde
<MootBot> LINK received: https://edge.launchpad.net/~neversfelde
<neversfelde> Last meeting the question came up, why I want to be a MOTU and not a kubuntu-dev. Turns out that it seems to be necessary to be a MOTU and a kubuntu-dev to handle the over 100 KDE packages in universe.
<neversfelde> Beneath that I believe that Ubuntu is one distribution and so I am not limited to packages which have a K in it, although I did not package a GNOME app or something else in the past.
<neversfelde> I think it is quite normal, that I focus on KDE applications, because it is the desktop I use, but I also want to help in a general way.
<cjwatson> yeah, the kubuntu unseeded packages stuff is complicated and I'd prefer not to block applicants on it
<cjwatson> though there has been some discussion on it
<nixternal> hehe, I look at build failures, and of course it was kdebindings... fyi dmb, ignore those, as there has yet to be a single upload w/o a failure :)
<neversfelde> kdebindings is a beast
<nixternal> i uploaded it enough times to realize i don't want to upload it anymore :)  though i do depend on it quite heavily...maybe it is time to work on it again...nah :)
<geser> neversfelde: I live not that far away from you (Dortmund) :)
<cjwatson> comment about debian/copyright from apachelogger in your application; have you looked at the DEP-5 copyright format stuff?
<nixternal> neversfelde: there you go, now you can go to geser's house and get him using Kubuntu :)
<neversfelde> geser: than you should ignore my preferences in soccer :)
<neversfelde> nixternal: I will do that, once I have some Lucid CDs
 * geser upgrades to maverick before that :)
<neversfelde> hehe
<cjwatson> we seem to have a bit of a dearth of questions to ask ...?
<nixternal> lol
<cody-somerville> neversfelde, Do you feel you have a good understanding of Ubuntu development policies and development cycle? Do you see any room for improvement in either?
<nixternal> kind of hard for me to come up with anything as i have worked with neversfelde now for quite some time on kubuntu.....sponsored a package here or there back in the day
<geser> neversfelde: as you used REVU to review packages. Does the process still work or should it get improved and how?
<neversfelde> cjwatson: yes, I am working more careful on this
<neversfelde> cody-somerville: I think I have after beeing part of the team for two cycles now. There are always some things to learn, though
<cjwatson> that was to cody I guess
<nixternal> no, i think that was for you debian/copyright question
<cody-somerville> I'm ready to vote.
<neversfelde> geser: it works, but it is far away from beeing perfect, for example it does not work with source format 3.0
<nixternal> i am ready to vote as well
<neversfelde> cjwatson: yes, it was for your question
<persia____> Fixing REVU for format 3.0 needs a working sparc kernel, mostly :)
<neversfelde> I am sorry, I  have a bad connection here, everything is very slow
<nixternal> [VOTE] Christian Mangold MOTU Application
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Christian Mangold MOTU Application.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia____> +1 : 2 cycles as productive ninja with wide universe scope
<MootBot> +1 received from persia____. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<apachelogger> persia____: revu is running sparc? scary...
<apachelogger> explains a lot :P
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<nixternal> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<nixternal> congrats and welcome neversfelde
<neversfelde> Thank you all
<apachelogger> neversfelde: congrats
<nixternal> [TOPIC]Scott Moser PPU Application
<MootBot> New Topic: Scott Moser PPU Application
<nixternal> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScottMoser/DeveloperApplicationPPU
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScottMoser/DeveloperApplicationPPU
<nixternal> [LINK]https://edge.launchpad.net/~smoser
<MootBot> LINK received: https://edge.launchpad.net/~smoser
<smoser> Hi, My name is Scott Moser (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScottMoser/DeveloperApplicationPPU).  I'm a member of the Ubuntu Server team, and have ben active fixing bugs and maintaining some of the "cloud" packages in ubuntu, and have done bug fixes and some new packaging on general server packages.  I'm in charge of producing our EC2/UEC images.  Hopefully, if someone is using "Ubuntu" on EC2, they're using these images or s
<smoser> tarting from them.
<smoser> I'm applying for PPU access to cloud-init, cloud-utils, ec2-ami-tools, ec2-api-tools, euca2ools, eucalyptus, python-boto, vm-builder.  For each of these packages I have support from the ubuntu maintainer for this application, and am the primary 'upstream' developer of native-ish packages cloud-init and cloud-utils.
 * smoser hears crickets
<smoser> EOF
<soren> Heh :)
<nixternal> heh, trying to dig up a question :)
<soren> I'm just ready to vote :)
<nixternal> smoser: seems you and I have that same 'proctrastination' bug as we are used to longer dev cycles elsewhere...have you done anything to fix that?
<smoser> been whacked on the head
<persia____> smoser: From your experience coordingating AMI image release, what parts of the release process did you find most awkward?
<smoser> i guess that the work item tracker has probabply helped a bit
<nixternal> ie. i started using some GTD methods to help, I use task by taskwarrior.org and share the backend files via dropbox for all machines, including my droid...that helps me a lot now
<nixternal> task is cli and is the greatest GTD app in the world!
<smoser> nixternal, the work item tracker is gtd-ish tool.  i havent adopted anything else.
<geser> smoser: should the "server edition" have a different (longer) release schedule than the "desktop"?
<smoser> persia____, regardin the release... the thing i dislike the most is not having a consistent set of packages across all releases (isos or images).
<cody-somerville> I'm ready to vote.
<nixternal> lol, me too cody-somerville :)
<cjwatson> smoser: not having a consistent set of packages - expand?
<smoser> it would seem ideal to me if there was a snapshot point in time for all releases, rather than the kind of rolling snapshot that we end up with (as some isos have bugs found, others do not, we do not re-spin all to pick up fixes and re-test)
<cjwatson> oh I see, right
<cjwatson> yeah, nasty compromises
<smoser> geser, i dont think server should have longer release schedule
<smoser> i think 6 month releases are one of the major reasons why people come to ubuntu
<smoser> at least it was for me.
<persia____> smoser: Heh.  You pick one where there's so many people working on ways to resolve it that I can't usefully pinck your brain :)
 * persia____ has no other questions
<cjwatson> me neither
<nixternal> [VOTE] Scott Moser PPU Application
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Scott Moser PPU Application.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<smoser> i very much like the dream of "make all archive" being reproducible at any given point in time.
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> smoser: I would love to have archive snapshots in LP - been on the wishlist for a long time, that
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<nixternal> persia____:?
<persia____> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia____. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<nixternal> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<nixternal> congrats smoser !!!
<smoser> woohoo, now to brussels. thank you all.
<cjwatson> again, will implement after meeting
<nixternal> dobey: you around?
<dobey> yep
<nixternal> [TOPIC] Rodney Dawes PPU Application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Rodney Dawes PPU Application
<nixternal> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RodneyDawes/DeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RodneyDawes/DeveloperApplication
<cjwatson> (the other two PPU candidates are in the room here at UDS)
<nixternal> [LINK]https://edge.launchpad.net/~dobey
<MootBot> LINK received: https://edge.launchpad.net/~dobey
<cjwatson> I'm curious whether our art teams make use of icontol
<cjwatson> icontool
<cjwatson> and if so whether it ought to be in main?
<dobey> it is used by ubuntuone-client
 * soren has to leave in a little bit
<cjwatson> in the upstream release prep process or something?
<dobey> i'd like to get more artists using the tools and improving them as well though
<dobey> yes, to generate the PNG icons from the SVG
<cjwatson> ok, then I think we should get it into main; but this is probably a side issue from your app ...
<dobey> i am fine with that :)
<cjwatson> ... any substantive questions?
<persia____> dobey: You seem also active upstream for a couple of these packages.  Could you share your experiences with the Ubuntu freeze cycles and how that affects work planning?
<nixternal> i am waiting for ubuntuone to work with a) Kubuntu (this release hopefully right apachelogger?) and b) android...and having a bit more than 2GB of storage for me would be helpful, as I am up to 6GB with dropbox and invites :)
<cjwatson> we probably shouldn't hold dobey responsible for commercial aspects of u1
<dobey> sure. the karmic cycle was a bit difficult as the lp milestones don't reflect the actual freeze dates, but the milestones instead
<nixternal> hehe
<cjwatson> oh, that's an interesting point about milestones
<cjwatson> I wonder if we should change that
<geser> dobey: as you mentioned not much experience with packaging, how complicated are the packages you want PPU upload rights and how comfortable do you feel yourself to understand with what's going on behind the scenes?
<nixternal> dobey: are you planning on extending out from u1 in the future or are you happy with just uploading it for now?
<cjwatson> (this is the first time I've seen that mentioned - I'm usually the one who creates the milestones since I'm typically the release team member who's still awake the day after release)
<dobey> geser: i have lots of experience with packaging, that was pitti's comment about debian packaging
<cjwatson> dobey: if you could send me a mail about that as a reminder, I'd appreciate it
<dobey> geser: i am plenty confident though
<dobey> cjwatson: will do
<cody-somerville> I'm ready to vote.
 * nixternal too
<dobey> nixternal: yeah, i will work on others in the future, and apply approrpriately
 * persia____ is ready
 * soren has to leave right around now
<nixternal> [VOTE] Rodney Dawes PPU Application
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Rodney Dawes PPU Application.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia____> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia____. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<soren> 01
<soren> er
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<nixternal> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> congrats dobey !!!
<dobey> thanks all!
<geser> not bad, voting done in 20 sec :)
<nixternal> chad miller here?
<CardinalFang> Yes.  <- CHad
<nixternal> ahh, you are hiding :)
<apachelogger> nixternal: I'll resign if I do not get u1-kde done
<CardinalFang> Old Freenode nick.  Sorry.
<cjwatson> "with(=against) KenVanDine" - *grin*, but can you expand on that?
<nixternal> [TOPIC] Chad Miller PPU Application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chad Miller PPU Application
<nixternal> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChadMiller/DeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChadMiller/DeveloperApplication
<apachelogger> nixternal: and apply for a job at the local apple reseller
<nixternal> [LINK]https://edge.launchpad.net/~cmiller
<MootBot> LINK received: https://edge.launchpad.net/~cmiller
<CardinalFang> cjohnston, I'm only joking.  I bothered him too often about uploading, while he was busy with other things.  This is a reason I'm applying.
<nixternal> apachelogger: you better! get it done that is, you already work for apple i thought :p
<apachelogger> !
<apachelogger> you mustn't talk about this in the public
<cjwatson> yeah, I heard quite a bit of "we're completely reliant on Ken to get things in" from online services a while back
<cody-somerville> CardinalFang, Did you ask Ken to endorse your application?
<CardinalFang> cody-somerville, I did ping him on IRC twice, but got no response.
<CardinalFang> A process question:  I may be interested in maintaining 'python-keyring' later, which is currently in Universe and I will soon request be pulled into Main.  Do I come back here, or do something else?
 * cjwatson attempts to prod ken on irc
<cjwatson> the former
<geser> CardinalFang: just curious: why did you retire from DD?
<cjwatson> sometimes we establish something like "you have permissions for all the printing stuff" and in that case we can add packages freely, but those seem a bit too disconnected for that
<nixternal> cuz canonical paid more silly :p
<cjwatson> last I checked Canonical didn't mind us being DDs ;-)
<CardinalFang> geser, I was not active.  I thought it best to give up my keyring-access to upload than let it sit and be a security problem.
<cody-somerville> CardinalFang, Is there anybody else that you've worked with on these packages that could have endorsed your application?
<nixternal> "I like Python and long walks on the beach" - that is just wrong on so many levels! I am willing to bet you have that on your Dating profile as well :D
 * cjwatson goes to hunt down diffs
<CardinalFang> cody-somerville, Hrm.  Not recently.  I worked with james_w with some of the early source-package branch of desktopcouch, but none of that since late last year.
<CardinalFang> And I'm sure it wasn't memorable for him.
<nixternal> CardinalFang: has a lot changed in your eyes in regards to packaging since you retired from DD? if so, have you kept up with it even though you weren't doing the whole packaging thing?
<cjwatson> the lack of endorsements is a bit irregular, but I've looked over the uploaded diffs and personally I'd have sponsored any of those without qualms (well, except that I'd probably have suggested the use of patch tagging; relatively minor)
<cjwatson> CardinalFang: desktopcouch 0.6.4-0ubuntu1 looks like it was relatively late in the release process, just before final freeze; can you go into the reasons for that?
<CardinalFang> I didn't keep up with debhelper and some of the other tools have evolved a bit, but I'm not surprised by anything.  I especially like some of the recipes in CDBS.
<persia____> I'm a bit more concerned about the lack of *any* comments or endorsements, given the fairly short timeframe of activity, and in comparison to decisions taken at last meeting in similar circumstances.
<cjwatson> (not an intrinsic criticism, just interested in the reasoning)
<nixternal> yeah, i became a cdbs junky, but the new debhelper is a bit sexy
<cjwatson> http://people.debian.org/~cjwatson/dhstats.png - I know which adoption curve I want to be on
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.debian.org/~cjwatson/dhstats.png - I know which adoption curve I want to be on
 * cjwatson rings the off-topic bell at himself
<nixternal> hahaha
<cody-somerville> I'm ready to vote.
<CardinalFang> cjwatson, there were several bugs that I couldn't reproduce that hit something like 3% of machines.  Usually netbooks.  It was some timing/race bug, I am pretty sure, with more than one start-request of couchdb.
<cjwatson> ah, the thread->process change?
<cjwatson> certainly no fan of multithreading here ...
<CardinalFang> Oh gods, don't bring that up.  No, I refer to something else.
<CardinalFang> I *think* that two processes would try to start couchdb at session start, and one would fail.
<CardinalFang> In any case, a retry fixed it.
 * nixternal is ready to vote
<CardinalFang> cjwatson, I didn't look up that version, so I'm working from my memory of the late upload to desktopcouch.
 * cjwatson tries not to get sucked into reading bug 530541
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 530541 in desktopcouch "desktopcouch-service crashed with RuntimeError in run_couchdb()" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530541
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> ready
<persia____> ready
<nixternal> [VOTE] Chad Miller PPU Application
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Chad Miller PPU Application.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia____> +0 : not enough history or comments/endorsements to be sure
<MootBot> Abstention received from persia____. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cjwatson> +1 - I wish Ken had responded, and normally that would make me +0, but in this particular case I had the time and opportunity to read through patches and convince myself of their sanity and such
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cody-somerville> -1 No endorsements
<MootBot> -1 received from cody-somerville. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +0 :  the same as persia
<MootBot> Abstention received from geser. 2 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nixternal> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 1 against. 2 abstained. Total: 1
<nixternal> we need to take this to the list for stgraber and soren to vote on?
<persia____> No.  At +1, two more votes can't reach threshold.
<nixternal> ahh, good point
<CardinalFang> Dang.  Okay.
<nixternal> CardinalFang: in 2 weeks we will have another meeting...get ken and anyone else to comment on your app and come back...you might be down right now but you are far from out
<cjwatson> four more votes could reach threshold given the two non-present folks, right?
<cjwatson> or am I confused?
<cody-somerville> CardinalFang, See if you can get endorsements from the folks who have a history maintaining those packages. Once you get that, I'm sure you'll have no trouble.
<cjwatson> never mind, I was thinking there were nine board members
<cjwatson> doh
<CardinalFang> Will do, cody-somerville.
<nixternal> JamieBennett: you here?
<JamieBennett> yes
<cjwatson> it doesn't look as if anyone had substantive comments; I would not anticipate problems if you can get Ken to pull his finger out and comment :-)
<nixternal> [TOPIC] Jamie Bennett Contributing Developer Application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Jamie Bennett Contributing Developer Application
<cjwatson> hang on
<nixternal> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamieBennett/UniverseContributorApplication
<cjwatson> we're running into dinnertime here I'm afraid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamieBennett/UniverseContributorApplication
<nixternal> [LINK] https://edge.launchpad.net/~jamiebennett
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://edge.launchpad.net/~jamiebennett
<cjwatson> and it's been two hours
<nixternal> this should be a quick easy one then we will adjourn?
<JamieBennett> Hi, my name is Jamie Bennett. I'm currently a member of the Ubuntu Mobile team concentrating on the ARM architecture.
<JamieBennett> Although officially I work on ARM specific stuff, I do development on a wider scale.
 * persia____ is happy to chair next time
<JamieBennett> I was responsible for the web office solution currently in Lucid (webservice-office-zoho) which is in main and is the default office solution on our ARM images.
<JamieBennett> I also worked on the live-cd improvements which resulted in a ~35% boot speed-up (improving casper). Along with this I was responsible for pushing the netbook-launcher-efl interface into the images which is the default UI on ARM desktop.
<JamieBennett> I concentrate on ARM enablement, optimizations, FTBFS fixes, testing and bug reporting/fixing.
<JamieBennett> [EOF]
<nixternal> i am trying to dig for a question here :)
<cody-somerville> JamieBennett, You seems to have quite the Canonical fan club :P
<JamieBennett> :)
<JamieBennett> I try to talk to alot of people
<ari-tczew> what happens? meeting pause?
<ari-tczew> due to dinner?
<nixternal> there is seriously nothing that blatently screams, "Hey pick on this here, it needs work, let's see if we can get him there..."
<JamieBennett> nixternal: good ;)
<nixternal> i seriously don't have any questions for this app, anyone else? I am ready to vote
<cody-somerville> lets vote
<cody-somerville> I'm hungry and want to go eat.
<nixternal> cody-somerville: are you at uds?
<nixternal> dumb question, i know you are
<nixternal> nevermind that
<nixternal> [VOTE] Jamie Bennett Contributing Developer Application
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Jamie Bennett Contributing Developer Application.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cody-somerville> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia____> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia____. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> +1 - after a bit of thought, keep on uploading stuff so that the decision is easier in future! :-)
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<nixternal> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<nixternal> do we need to send to the ml for more votes?
<nixternal> or is this a congrats? did everyone leave who is at UDS?
<cjwatson> I don't think so, persia reckons 4 is the threshold
<nixternal> so that is a congrats then?
<persia____> I think so.
<nixternal> congrats! :)
 * persia____ heads for food
<cjwatson> we are still here but dying to shovel in some food
<JamieBennett> \o/
<JamieBennett> thanks
<nixternal> [TOPIC] Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Business
<nixternal> [ACTION] persia to chair next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to chair next meeting
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: I think, regrettably, at this point we have just run out of steam and need to pause; would like to give your app proper consideration
<nixternal> [ACTION] nixternal to do minutes
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nixternal to do minutes
<geser> nixternal: don't let those at UDS die from hunger, we still need them :)
<cjwatson> I'm sorry that that means it's just you remaining - please don't take that the wrong way
<ari-tczew> pause for some minutes?
<ari-tczew> I'm waiting for 2 hours
<ari-tczew> ...
<nixternal> ari-tczew: they are at UDS, it is 7PM there, they will eat then get drunk
<cjwatson> up to the chair, but I'm not expecting to be online again this evening; I don't know about anyone else
<cjwatson> nixternal: some maybe :) I'm ill and likely to go to bed early
<nixternal> aww, that sucks
 * ari-tczew thinks that this is unfair
<cjwatson> persia has already left
<cjwatson> oh wait, he's back
<nixternal> ari-tczew: i would love to get your app complete, but those at uds have to go eat and may not be back online tonight...if that is the case, then it would be just me to interview you, and then send your app to the mailing list, where it will get debated and questions asked...it will take the same amount of time than coming back at the next meeting...
<nixternal> nothing i can really do, and I apologize for that
<ari-tczew> I DaÅem pierwszeÅstwo osobom niemajÄcym czasu, a sam zostaÅem na lodzie.
<nixternal> it may seem a bit unfair, but i think a bit of patience would be greatly appreciated, plus if you were to get MOTU today, nothing much for you to do right now anyways
<ari-tczew> sorry, translate
<ari-tczew> I gave priority to people not having time, and he was on the ice.
<cjwatson> I'm fine with working on the mailing list
<nixternal> ari-tczew: you would have still be last no matter who went first
 * cjwatson looks at the agenda order - quite
<cody-somerville> nixternal, Can you add an item to the agenda for next meeting for the DMB to establish a time limit or max # of applicants we'll process in a single meeting?
<cjwatson> oh god, I still need to add PPUs to Launchpad as well
<nixternal> cody-somerville: yeah, I would like to modify the way people are adding themselves for membership and maybe do the cutoff like we did for the RMB
<ari-tczew> I wasted 2 hours, but this week I'm very busy and this time is necessary for me. thanks a lot!
<nixternal> ari-tczew: yeah, that isn't helping your cause, especially when one of the things on your app that says you need work with is patience
<nixternal> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:25.
<nixternal> ok, i will do the team report, wiki page, and minutes email
<nixternal> have a great evening those of you at uds, and have a great rest of the day or whatever to everyone else! thanks!
<ari-tczew> this is frivolously
<ari-tczew> when will be next meeting?
<cjwatson> 25th May
<ari-tczew> time?
<cjwatson> we could process an e-mail discussion more quickly than that though
<cjwatson> same time
<ari-tczew> I want to got priority for me next meeting
<cjwatson> I see no reason why you would not be first on the list
<cjwatson> I'll confirm this with persia (next chair) at dinner
<ari-tczew> some people add themselve applications after me
<ari-tczew> ehh...
<geser> ari-tczew: we should add some sorting into the applications that those who applied first get handled first and not pushed back to the end of the agenda (or even the next meeting) because they apply for MOTU and core-dev and not for PPU or UUC
<ari-tczew> geser: so please sorting, because what you did today is due to disesteem people time (today me)
<zanzibar1982> hi everyone
<ari-tczew> hi
<geser> ari-tczew: we got lucky till now that we had only few applicants per meeting which could all be handled in one meeting (one hour). But unfortunately we had in the last two meetings more applicants than we could handle in even a 2 hour meeting :(
<ari-tczew> geser: I don't care about it, you are a DMB member not me. you moved me at end of queue and then kick my ass saying "sorry man, we're going eat and then relax, f|_|ck off". I feel disrespect me.
<DrKenobi> Ubuntu Beginners Team Meeting today? 23 UTC?
<Silver_Fox_> Yes.
<DrKenobi> 12 minutes for the meeting? I am a little bit confused with UTC
<man0riaX> 12:48am here. <:
<Silver_Fox_> DrKenobi,  Open a terminal and enter the following command:  date -u
<DrKenobi> ok
<Silver_Fox_> It will tell you the current date and time in UTC format
<DrKenobi> great! thanks Silver_Fox_
<Silver_Fox_> Pleasure..
<man0riaX> Oh, really cool command. Thank you
<Silver_Fox_> Pleasure.
<bodhi_zazen> lol
<man0riaX> Hi bodhi_zazen
<man0riaX> <:
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-12
<Silver_Fox_> Nearly time
<kidtp> hey : )
<man0riaX> Heya
<kidtp> we starting now?
<nhandler> kidtp: In a minute or so
<ZachK_> kidtp: soon
<kidtp> ok
<kidtp> are there rules?
<duanedesign> 'lo
<Silver_Fox_> Newcomer brings the beer kidtp  ;)
<ZachK_> Silver_Fox_: be good foxy
<Rocket2DMn> lol
<kidtp> haha im a little under aged for beer
<kidtp> im sorry lol
 * man0riaX gives everyone beer.
<Silver_Fox_> Sugar is also acceptable ;)
 * ZachK_ will take the sugar...for the iced tea
<bodhi_zazen> Who wants to run this meeting ?
<ZachK_> bodhi_zazen: you? lol
<malev> who is in charge?
<Silver_Fox_> I would but apparently I'm  not here bodhi_zazen  ;)
<ibuclaw> Hi
<ibuclaw> 'lo team
<ddecator> heya ibuclaw
<ZachK_> nhandler: ping
<ibuclaw> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:04. The chair is ibuclaw.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ibuclaw> OK, who is here?
<ibuclaw> o/
<nhandler> o/
<ddecator> o/
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<PabloRubianes> o/
<swoody> o/
<man0riaX> o/
<Silver_Fox_> o/
 * ZachK_ is here
<Rocket2DMn> o/
<duanedesign> o/
<malev> o/
<kidtp> what are we doing?  :(
<ddecator> attendance
<kidtp> o/
<kidtp> ?
<kidtp> sorry
<bodhi_zazen> o?
<bodhi_zazen> o/
<ibuclaw> OK, what is first on the agenda?
<bodhi_zazen> although I have to leave in 25 min or so ...
<ibuclaw> [TOPIC] FAQ page needs attention, it is messy and difficult to read
<MootBot> New Topic:  FAQ page needs attention, it is messy and difficult to read
<nhandler> Doesn't look like Bodsda is here
<nhandler> ZachK_: This would probably be another good task for the Wiki FG to work on
<ZachK_> nhandler: ok
<ZachK_> ibuclaw: link for that page?
<ibuclaw> [LINK] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/FAQ
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/FAQ
<ibuclaw> I presume he means that page
<ZachK_> ibuclaw: i'll get to work on that after i finish writing a tutorial
<ZachK_> for the forums
<ibuclaw> which overall, feels kinda out of place compared to the rest of the /Beginners pages
<ibuclaw> thank-you ZachK_
<duanedesign> is anyone aware of which page it might be reffering to as (duplication)?
<ZachK_> ibuclaw: :)
<duanedesign> signposts
<Rocket2DMn> much of the rest of the wiki...
<ZachK_> Rocket2DMn: agreed
<ZachK_> It seems like that FAQ page is pretty repetitive
<Rocket2DMn> that page has probably been superseded by Signpost
<duanedesign> So link to appropriatte content that exists on the wiki where possible
<ZachK_> Rocket2DMn: think we should just delete it then?
<ibuclaw> ZachK_, perhaps replace it with a link to another project
<ibuclaw> ie: Ubuntu Manual
<Rocket2DMn> if anywhere, back to the wiki homepage
<cjohnston> o/
<Rocket2DMn> or at least - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Signpost/Questions#help
<ZachK_> Rocket2DMn: you wanna do that then?
<ibuclaw> 'lo cjohnston - have something to add? Or just saying hi. :)
<cjohnston> saying hi
<ZachK_> Rocket2DMn: or do you want me to do it
<ZachK_> hey cjohnston
<cjohnston> I will have something to add to the end though..
<Rocket2DMn> go for it ZachK_ , please check pages that link to it and either remove links or adjust accordingly
<Rocket2DMn> i believe you know how to handle the wiki, ZachK_
<ZachK_> Rocket2DMn: yes i do...
<duanedesign> ;)
<malev> so, no more FAQ?
<nhandler> ibuclaw: You might want to give ZachK_ the [action]
<ibuclaw> [ACTION] ZachK_ to clean up Beginners FAQ page
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ZachK_ to clean up Beginners FAQ page
 * ZachK_ shall do so...when he's done with his UF Tutorial
<ZachK_> :)
<duanedesign> malev: just take advantage of existing documentation
<ibuclaw> I assume no objects and everyone in agreement? :)
<ibuclaw> ZachK_, again, thank-you.
<nhandler> ibuclaw: It is a wiki page. Anyone can edit it if necessary
<malev> I agree!
<malev> o/
<ibuclaw> nhandler, true.
<ddecator> sounds good to me
<ZachK_> ibuclaw: no prob
<ZachK_> ibuclaw: it's what I'm here for
<ZachK_> I'll have a topic when everyone is done if that's ok
<ibuclaw> OK, anything else before we move on?
<ibuclaw> 3, 2, 1...
<PabloRubianes> move on!
<ibuclaw> [TOPIC] Replace VoteBot with ubottu
<MootBot> New Topic:  Replace VoteBot with ubottu
<ibuclaw> nhandler, you are leading this discussion...
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<bodhi_zazen> =)
<ibuclaw> and yes, +1
<ibuclaw> =)
<ddecator> i'm honestly not sure what the differences are. i like ubottu, but i'm more familiar with it so i'm biased =p
<nhandler> Well, the only feature from VoteBot that we actually still need are the factoids. This can be provided by ubottu
<duanedesign> who created votebot?
<nhandler> ubottu also adds a few other features such as fetching URLs for bugs and !info and stuff like that
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<bodhi_zazen> nhandler: are the factiods channel specific ?
<nhandler> duanedesign: I did
<ibuclaw> duanedesign, nhandler did
<ddecator> +1 for bug links
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: They can be, but we really have no realy factoids that are not jokes
<Rocket2DMn> bug links are nice, i use them all the time in other channels
<Silver_Fox_> We are removing one of the more fun elements from the team ?
<bodhi_zazen> Well, some factiods are probably best ##ubuntu-offtopic - at best
<duanedesign> that would be my only concern. Make sure the author is ok with it.
<duanedesign> Rocket2DMn: +1
<ZachK_> The factoids are part of what made this team what it is IMO
<bodhi_zazen> I would -1 migrating the factiods
<nhandler> ZachK_: If that is the case, you have some major misconceptions of the team
<bodhi_zazen> And I really do not want to go through them one - by -one
<Silver_Fox_> The team is about helping ZachK_
<ibuclaw> Rocket2DMn, does ubottu integrate bug links?
<ddecator> ibuclaw: yes
<ddecator> bug 1
<ubottu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Timeout)
<ZachK_> nhandler: I'm not saying that Factoids are what the team is about...I'm saying that it just seems to me that it's what makes us a little different
<ibuclaw> and fails spectacularly at the Bug Description... ;)
<ddecator> ibuclaw: not normally =p
<duanedesign> bug 554185
<duanedesign> lol
<ddecator> yes, so...ubottu is not making its case atm >.>
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 554185 in ubuntuone-client "Ubuntu One Preferences app field values should update periodically" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554185
<nhandler> ddecator: ^^^
<duanedesign> \o/
<Silver_Fox_> Okay, so its slow... :)
<ddecator> also not normally, haha
<ZachK_> At least it pulled the info down
<nhandler> So does anyone else see any other real reason to keep VoteBot?
<ddecator> it also has support for upstream trackers (not sure if that's a default or just in -bugs)
<ibuclaw> ZachK_, IMO - Votebot has been deprecated in this team for quite some time.
<nhandler> ibuclaw: Yep. It doesn't serve much use now that we are an official Ubuntu team and hold meetings in here
<bodhi_zazen> +1 re: votebot == depreciated , lol
 * ZachK_ agrees
<bodhi_zazen> It was a very nice bot nhandler , thank you for making it
<ZachK_> lol @ bodhi_zazen
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Yep. It served its purpose, but now it is time to move on
<bodhi_zazen> vote or just axe it ?
<ibuclaw> ok
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: No more votes at meetings, remember
<ddecator> i think it has the majority, haha
<ibuclaw> how many channels still use Votebot?
<nhandler> ibuclaw: Only the BT channels use it
<ibuclaw> +#ubuntu-beginners-council +#ubuntu-beginners-team
<ibuclaw> OK, so no notice is required for other teams / etc. :)
<nhandler> ibuclaw: And all the FG channels and -beginners
<duanedesign> #ubuntu-beginners ?
<nhandler> ibuclaw: Nope
<nhandler> So the council will vote on the issue, but based on the discussion, it looks like VoteBot will be leaving us soon
<bodhi_zazen> well, we need an [ACTION] or {AGREED] , IMHO
<nhandler> Any more comments about this topic?
<ZachK_> nhandler: -wiki doesn't have Votebot so ya know
<ddecator> i think we're set
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Not really, this is just for discussion (like a ML discussion)
<nhandler> The action will come based on the council's decision
<ibuclaw> [ACTION] BT Council to vote on replacing VoteBot with ubottu
<MootBot> ACTION received:  BT Council to vote on replacing VoteBot with ubottu
<bodhi_zazen> TY ibuclaw
<ibuclaw> last subject
<ibuclaw> [TOPIC] Membership Requirements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Membership Requirements
<ibuclaw> nhandler, off to you again.
<bodhi_zazen> those tags [ACTION] make the logs MUCH EASIER to review later =)
<ddecator> ha, i was just asking swoody about this (kinda)
<ibuclaw> bodhi_zazen, compared to .action .topic and the like?
<nhandler> ibuclaw: MootBot picks up [ACTION]
<nhandler> Well, I am failing to find the link. If anyone has it, please post it
<bodhi_zazen> yes, and better then no MARKS in the LOGS
<nhandler> But basically, paultag started working on some criteria we can use when determining whether to accept someone as a BT member
<ZachK_> nhandler: link for?
<nhandler> Currently, it focuses a bit too much on numbers/stats imo. But I wanted to get some feedback on what everyone thought some good criteria for being a UBT member would be
<nhandler> ZachK_: The criteria wiki page
<ZachK_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
<ZachK_> that it?
<ddecator> i think having the CoC signed isn't too much to ask
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Paultag/UBTCriteria
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Paultag/UBTCriteria
<duanedesign> I like the recommendation from someone outside of BT that is recognized in their area of the community.
<bodhi_zazen> +1 signed CoC
<bodhi_zazen> It is nto *that* hard to sign,
<nhandler> The requirements on the Membership page really aren't that bad. It is the UBTCriteria page I really wanted feedback on
<PabloRubianes> I like the changes but I don't see "Have at least one recommendation from someone outside of the Beginners Team who can attest to the quality of your contribution" a must
<nhandler> PabloRubianes: We were trying to avoid having people who *only* participate in the UBT channels
<nhandler> If they are working with a FG, they will be active in other parts of the community, and should be working with people outside the team
<ddecator> so each sections applies depending on what FG a person applies for, yes?
<PabloRubianes> nhandler: good
<nhandler> ddecator: "applies" probably isn't the best word. They are just some criteria that can be used to judge the work a person has done in a certain area
<nhandler> Like I said, I feel it focuses too much on #s
<ddecator> yah, maybe it should be more like a bug-control application? email and provide links that demonstrate and understanding of how things work
<ddecator> s/and/an
<ZachK_> nhandler: I don't feel that a procurement of Wiki pages that the Candidate has worked on would be a good requirement as most new people don't know how to edit the wiki...I'd make it an option at the very least like, "If you have made any contribution to the Ubuntu Wiki list them here" or something
<nhandler> ddecator: That wouldn't work as well for other areas of the community
<nhandler> ZachK_: New people probably aren't ready to join the team. They should work with a FG until they are ready
<swoody> how about some requirement for the IRC FG? Perhaps 2 or 3 testimonials - again from people well known in the community, inside or out of the BT
<ZachK_> nhandler: true
<ZachK_> nhandler: and the Wiki FG would probably be easier than most
<ibuclaw> nhandler, so we are moving to a more close knit group then.
<nhandler> It would be great to have the different FGs brainstorm some criteria that would be useful in evaluating the work a person has done in a certain area. Remember, it should be stuff like "The # of wiki pages edited" instead of "Edited at least X wiki pages"
<nhandler> ibuclaw: The idea is to have some real requirements instead of just "hang around for a month and get voted in"
<nhandler> We want to also ensure our members are qualified
<Silver_Fox_> Are we suggesting that "You must help outside of UBT" ?
<ZachK_> nhandler: I agree with that...
<nhandler> Silver_Fox_: Yes. The FGs would help with that. Most of them already interact with other teams in the community
<nhandler> i.e. Wiki FG works with the Doc Team
<ZachK_> Silver_Fox_: well shouldn't we try to be the team that Produces people who move on to the Ubuntu community on a large scale?
<ibuclaw> nhandler, that I can agree on. But having the FGs as an entry point onto the team? And main membership granted with merits later?
<ddecator> true, the FG members can be members of other teams that help introduce new people to the workflow of the different areas
<duanedesign> I think it is important that as we adopt as a part of our mission help new users not only with Ubuntu but with the community that prospective members can be new to the community.
<ddecator> well, "members" of other teams, not that it's a requirement i suppose (unless you decide it should be)
<ibuclaw> As opposed to main membership first ... then the *possibility* of joining an FG, *if* the member doesn't laze about.
<PabloRubianes> one thing...
<nhandler> duanedesign: *Prospective* members can be new to the community. But until they learn and are ready to actually help in their area of interest, they should remain *prospective*
<Silver_Fox_> I thought the idea was for the BT to point people in the direction of the wider community,  not have it a prerequisite for joining the BT.  I saw it more of a stepping stone if you will.
<duanedesign> nhandler: +1
<nhandler> Silver_Fox_: The FGs are that bridge to the community
<PabloRubianes> I think only bt member can be really part of the FG on launchpad... otherwise they recive the BTmember sign even if they are not members...
<ZachK_> nhandler: but if you make it so that people can just join an FG and then do work in that most people won't try to attain any more that that...most want recognition for the Label...not what they themselves have actually done
<nhandler> PabloRubianes: That is correct. But that shoul not stop them from participating with a FG
<PabloRubianes> yes, but somewhere it must say that, on the new membership process wiki
<nhandler>  ZachK_ If their only reason for joining the team is to say they are a member of the UBT, they probably shouldn't be a part of the team
<duanedesign> I think there are two cases here. 1. Someone who wants to participate in the community *and* help others do this. They would be joining the team. 2. Users we help join the community but are interested in being a member and helping others do the same
<ibuclaw> PabloRubianes, nothing official yet. This is just a proposal for a revision.
<PabloRubianes> ok
<duanedesign> s/are/are not
<ZachK_> If we make it so that you can join say a part of the team but not all until you "Prove yourself" than what good is that? If a person is going to be a prospective member to the UBT make it so that they are a Prospective member to all aspects of the team..including FG's
<nhandler> Well, it is clear more discussion is needed before any vote can take place. We should probably get the different views documented on the wiki or ML
<nhandler> ZachK_: Well, they aren't really joining the FG. They are just working with them
<ZachK_> nhandler: ok...just making sure of that
<ZachK_> nhandler: personally I feel that you shouldn't be able to join one until you are a full member of the BT but that's My opinion
<Silver_Fox_> A difference exists between joining and helping a focus group
<nhandler> Can FGs work on updating the criteria wiki page for some good criteria to judge contributions in their respective areas? Revisions to the membership page (in a new Comments section at the bottom) would also be helpful
<ibuclaw> Silver_Fox_, precisely
<ZachK_> nhandler: I'll definitely do that for the Wiki Section
<ddecator> i do think part of the membership process should involve encouraging prospective members to check out the various FGs (not require, but encourage them so they can try new things)
<nhandler> Having the different views documented on the wiki should help the council make a decision
<Silver_Fox_> Am I correct in understanding that it is unlikely that if someone only helps out with a FG they are not going to become full members of UBT ?
<nhandler> Silver_Fox_: No
<Silver_Fox_> Okay,  good :)
<nhandler> Any more comments?
<ddecator> none here
<ZachK_> nhandler: I had the SoD topic if that's ok
<bodhi_zazen> gotta run =)
<ZachK_> nhandler: i forgot to put it on the meeting page
<duanedesign> and today during UDS there was some discussion about the team and its role in helping people get involved in the community. Overall it was a positive response. I felt like Jono and others on the community team were willing to provide advice/input. Might be a resource we should utilize.
<ibuclaw> bye bo^H^H^H
<cjohnston> duanedesign: I want to talk on that tonight if we get to it before I crash
<nhandler> Well, I'm done. ibuclaw you're up Mr. Chair
<duanedesign> is that it for agenda items?
<ibuclaw> Silver_Fox_, I don't think it is necessary to help out in BT to be part of this team (for example my role has changed wildly in the last 2 years) - I think the new criteria should provoke a push for FGs to get more *out there* and active in Ubuntu.
 * nhandler -> dinner
<ZachK_> duanedesign: I had one...
<ibuclaw> nhandler, okies
<Silver_Fox_> Activity should be encouraged ibuclaw :)
<ibuclaw> [ACTION] Membership Requirements to be discussed on ML and wiki
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Membership Requirements to be discussed on ML and wiki
<ibuclaw> Silver_Fox_, indeed - as opposed to just dawdling ... (*cough*) That FG shame remain nameless, but I'll be poking around some time later. >:)
<ibuclaw> ZachK_, you have a final topic?
<ZachK_> ibuclaw: i do
<duanedesign> so does cjohnston
<Silver_Fox_> I have no idea to what you refer ibuclaw  ;)
<ibuclaw> [TOPIC] Summer of Documentation Project
<MootBot> New Topic:  Summer of Documentation Project
<ibuclaw> ZachK_, fire away
<ZachK_> ibuclaw: Thanks...Ok I'm sure most of you have received one or more emails from me regarding the Summer of Documentation Project...any questions on that?
<duanedesign> I always liked the Summer of Documentation Project.
<duanedesign> I think it is a good idea
<ZachK_> I'm welcoming Ideas, input, and especially help
<ddecator> i can help after i'm done with school
<PabloRubianes> it should be called Summer/winter
<ZachK_> The Wiki FG has been somewhat slim regarding Members.....and contributions
<ZachK_> Any questions/ideas anyone?
<Silver_Fox_> ZachK_,  As I said earlier,  I am happy to help with SOD again.
<Silver_Fox_> :)
<ZachK_> Silver_Fox_: ok join the wiki fg channel...
<ddecator> ZachK_: a howto of sorts will help =)
<ZachK_> ddecator: ok....good idea that
<Silver_Fox_> ZachK_,  Has the list been updated ?
<duanedesign> PabloRubianes: haha pablo has a point. It is winter down South. :)
<ibuclaw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki/SoD2010
<ZachK_> Silver_Fox_: list?
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki/SoD2010
<ZachK_> TY ibuclaw
<Silver_Fox_> ZachK_,  List of pages that require attention
<Silver_Fox_> :)
<ibuclaw> Those who wish to participate, please bookmark that. =)
<ddecator> ZachK_: for example, i have the content almost done for the software center page (just need some more screenshots) but idk how to format the page, so i'll probably just go into a finished one and copy the formatting, but a wiki detailing everything would help
<PabloRubianes> I think we have some new people who speak spanish arround now, so do it it in spanish is ok? Documentation in Spanish is not so good...
 * ddecator bookmarks page
<ZachK_> ddecator: ok I'll put a link on the Wiki FG page as there is already a wiki page with formating help on it
<ddecator> ZachK_: but for BT pages specifically?
<ZachK_> ddecator: the format is the same for all wiki pages...
<ibuclaw> PabloRubianes, go for it. =)
<ddecator> ZachK_: but i mean like the navigation area at the top of main pages that are for BT pages
<ZachK_> ddecator: that would be the /include bt header
<duanedesign> cjohnston: are you still with us?
<ZachK_> ddecator: i'll tell you all about it later
<cjohnston> yes
<ddecator> ZachK_: well then mention it on a wiki, because i had no idea =p
<ZachK_> ibuclaw: unless anybody else has anything more that's all i got
<ibuclaw> ok, thank-you ZachK_
<ZachK_> ibuclaw: yup
 * ZachK_ out
<ibuclaw> I'm hoping to see more members contribute this year. =)
<duanedesign> +1
<ZachK_> ibuclaw: as am i
<cjohnston> Am I up?
<ZachK_> cjohnston: yuppers
<cjohnston> Okie...
<cjohnston> Today at UDS we had a session on fixing this page:
<ibuclaw> IMO - Open Source documentation is lagging behind the FAST development pace
<cjohnston> http://www.ubuntu.com/community
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community
<cjohnston> duanedesign participated remotely with us
<ibuclaw> cjohnston, wait for it =)
<ibuclaw> topic?
<cjohnston> umm
<cjohnston> UDS Community Involvement discussion
<cjohnston> without the spelling errors
<ibuclaw> I see none =)
<ibuclaw> [TOPIC] UDS Community Involvement discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  UDS Community Involvement discussion
<ibuclaw> take it away then.
<cjohnston> Ok.. Today at UDS we had a session about fixing this page: http://www.ubuntu.com/community
<cjohnston> duanedesign participated remotely with us..
<cjohnston> I think we had some good ideas...
<cjohnston> Currently there are a couple problems with the page..
<cjohnston> 1) it looks old
<cjohnston> 2) some of the pages under it arent really correct
<ddecator> oh yah, i remember seeing this page when i was first getting involved and i wasn't sure where i was supposed to go..
<cjohnston> so we want to redeisgn the page to 1) provide accurate information on getting involved with the community
<cjohnston> and 2) update it to the new "light" theme of Ubuntu
<cjohnston> We want the end result to look similar to: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/1004features
<cjohnston> The top set of images (header image) will be pictures of people (contributors, users, etc)
<cjohnston> under that...
<cjohnston> Each of the "sections" that are there now will be changed to different ways to get involved
<cjohnston> So the current browse the web could be something like Documentation
<ibuclaw> More Human, less Tango?
<cjohnston> yes
<cjohnston> with a little discription of what is involved in documentation
<cjohnston> and a link to get more info on what documentation means and how to get involed
<cjohnston> we want to include the different ways to contribute to ubuntu
<cjohnston> and really just make the page better
<cjohnston> we are planning on waiting to sstart this IIRC until the new website design is relased
<cjohnston> hopefully soon
<cjohnston> but duanedesign and I had mentioned that since the BT is wanting to focus on helping users become contributors
<cjohnston> this may be something good for us to help work on
<cjohnston> I just wanted to see if any members had any interest in helping out with redoing this pagr
<cjohnston> page
<nhandler> I would be up for helping out
<ibuclaw> cjohnston, so is the design on the main Ubuntu site you linked open to anyone to help out?
<ibuclaw> [LINK] http://www.ubuntu.com/community
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community
<cjohnston> and if so, we will get together with jono at some point, and go over what he is wanting from this, and bounce ideas off each other and make it happen
<duanedesign> i think anything the team can do here would be good.
<cjohnston> ibuclaw: we will design the new page, and then after being approved by jono, he will submit it to the proper authorities to get it changed
<nhandler> cjohnston: I can't help with design stuff, but in terms of the content that should go on there, I can help with that
<cjohnston> we wont be able to edit that page directly
<ibuclaw> cjohnston, just confirming what I thought was the case, thanks.
<nhandler> Bleh, the page links to projects, not teams :(
<cjohnston> nhandler: that sounds good.. i think we almost more need help with the content more than the design just because ultimatly the design will have to be done by the webmaster
<cjohnston> and the website team
<nhandler> cjohnston: An email to the ML asking for volunteers might also be handy
<cjohnston> but we can provide them with the mock design (working preferably) to go off
<cjohnston> of
<cjohnston> nhandler: sounds like a good idea
<cjohnston> ill have to try to remember that
<duanedesign> cjohnston: ill try and help with that ;)
<ddecator> i can help with bugsquad related material if it's needed
<duanedesign> here is some notes from that session. http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/community-m-improvement-ubuntu-community-pages
<cjohnston> Ok.. so nhandler and duanedesign are interested.. I'm going to send an email to the ML at some point, hopefully soon, and solicit more help.. Like I said, it may be a litte while before the real work starts, however we could technically start gathering content now, and just put the content into place once we have the design to work off of
<cjohnston> and ddecator
<cjohnston> thanks duanedesign
<duanedesign> thank you cjohnston for representing th BT at UDS
<cjohnston> and I did put it into a gobby doc (not that it matters) afterwords
<cjohnston> np
<cjohnston> thanks for being there to help me with that
<cjohnston> I had to represent a team im not even a part of earlier :-x
<cjohnston> because they werent there but i kinda agreed with their points
<cjohnston> but thats off topic
<ibuclaw> IMO - I think this is a great opportunity for the team to proves themselves and give out a solid point of recognition =)
<cjohnston> ibuclaw: absolutly
<duanedesign> ibuclaw: +100
<ddecator> ibuclaw: +1
<cjohnston> as duanedesign will attest, jono had mentioned that the BT has been off his radar...
<cjohnston> and I think this would be a great way to get the BT on his radar
<ddecator> definitely
<cjohnston> let him know we are hear and want to help
<cjohnston> would you three mind sending me an email (or someone shoot me an email reminding me that the three of you are interested in helping)
<cjohnston> im so tired ill forget
<ibuclaw> cjohnston, I'll be keeping an eye. Not sure of much I can do to assist, but as always, time will tell.
<ddecator> cjohnston: is your email on your lp page?
<nhandler> cjohnston: Do you get emails when someone MemoServs you ?
<cjohnston> and ill talk to jono tomorrow at some point and let him know that there is a definate desire for the BT to help out
<nhandler> ddecator: chrisjohnston@ubuntu.com
<cjohnston> nhandler: dunno
<cjohnston> ddecator: chrisjohnston@ubuntu.com
<ddecator> nhandler: thanks
<cjohnston> if i spelled it right
<cjohnston> jono was looking for someone to take this project because he doesnt really have time to do it himself, but it most definatly needs major work
<cjohnston> that I think is all that I have... unless anyone else has any questions
<cjohnston> also
<cjohnston> does anyone have any questions/concerns that they would like me to bring up at any point with anyone
<kermiac> sorry, still waking up - I can give ddecator a hand with bugsquad info
<ddecator> kermiac: thanks mate
<cjohnston> :-)
<duanedesign> cjohnston: cant think of anything but i will be remote participating the rest of the week if anyone has anything i know where to find you :)
<duanedesign> thanks again cjohnston
<duanedesign> doesnt look like any oof the prospective members up for membership are here
<cjohnston> :-)
<nhandler> duanedesign: We should probably finalize the criteria anyway first
 * cjohnston goes to bed
<ibuclaw> night cjohnston
<nhandler> Any more topics for discussion?
<cjohnston> as it is 230a and 7a will be here quick
<ddecator> haha, night cjohnston
<ibuclaw> OK
 * Silver_Fox_ should consider bed... is 01:26
<ibuclaw> [LINK] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/community-m-improvement-ubuntu-community-pages
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/community-m-improvement-ubuntu-community-pages
<ibuclaw> for anyone interested.
<nhandler> ibuclaw: Are you going to take care of updating the Meeting page and sending minutes to the ML ?
<duanedesign> nhandler: we have three prospective members who were in the process before adoption of the new process.
<nhandler> Well, none of them are here, and most of the masters are missing too
<ibuclaw> nhandler, no probs. Just direct me on what to do. =)
<nhandler> ibuclaw: Yeah, I can help with that
<nhandler> Shall we end the meeting then?
<PabloRubianes> yes
<ibuclaw> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:30.
<ibuclaw> bang on the dot =)
<pedro3005> now that's damn good timing
<ibuclaw> Who are the proposed new members?
 * ibuclaw gets out his quiz book
<ibuclaw> nhandler, how do you make pages immutable?
<ibuclaw> I presume after creation...
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-14
<andi_nuryadin> assalamu alaikum
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-15
 * micr0spell Discounts!! Our Special Limited Time Offers Up To May,22!!! Notebooks,Plasma and LCD TV's.Buy your electronic needs at our unique prices. Laptop Sony VAIOÂ® VGN-FW590FFD-575,57$!!!Apple MacBookÂ® Air MC234LL/A-695,27$!!! http://www.elplace.com/
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-09
<iSkorup> Hey gang
<highvoltage> /win 19
<inashdeen> hi,anyone here?
<inashdeen> i want to make a suggestion
<_persia> Is anyone attnding this meeting on IRC?
<czajkowski> _persia: which one
 * ogra_ is 
<ogra_> DMB
<czajkowski> wish there was a bot that annouced meetings in here
<ogra_> there once was :)
<czajkowski> ogra_: did you break it ...
<cody-somerville> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:21. The chair is cody-somerville.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<psusi> you mean is anyone who is physically at uds also here on irc?
<ogra_> i never touched IRC bots in my life
<rdiankov> rdiankov is here for the per-package-uploader application
<rdiankov> let me know when you guys get around to it
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Application for Ubuntu Core Developer: Christopher James Halse Rogers
<MootBot> New Topic:  Application for Ubuntu Core Developer: Christopher James Halse Rogers
<ogra_> geez, he isnt core dev already ?!?
<cody-somerville> RAOF_, Hi. Could you introduce yourself and your application?
<maco> oh, this channel
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisHalseRogers/CoreDevApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisHalseRogers/CoreDevApplication
<sconklin> link to agenda?
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<RAOF_> Hi.  I'm Chris Halse Rogers.  I've been involved in Ubuntu forâ¦ 5 years now?
<RAOF_> I started off working on various packages in Universe; I had the TIL status on miro for quite some time.
<RAOF_> I'm the maintainer of GNOME Do, and I'm (somewhat) active in packaging mono apps in Ubuntu & pkg-cli-* in Debian.
<RAOF_> I'm currently one of our X maintainers, along with Bryce.
<Laney> There's some more information here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2011-April/000201.html (we started this application on email)
<stgraber> E-mail discussion so far: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2011-April/000190.html https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2011-April/000192.html https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2011-April/000201.html https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2011-May/000217.html
<Laney> :-)
 * stgraber doesn't have any question for RAOF_ and is ready to vote
<maco> ditto
 * Laney had his questions answered on email, so no more from me either ...
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Application for Ubuntu Core Developer: Christopher James Halse Rogers
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Application for Ubuntu Core Developer: Christopher James Halse Rogers.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<maco> +1 i'm with ogra
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<ogra_> :)
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<bdrung> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Laney> +1 // please don't forget about pkg-cli-* â¥
<MootBot> +1 received from Laney. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<_persia> +1 : long history, clean work
<MootBot> +1 received from _persia. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<cody-somerville> #endvote
<maco> :-o persia's back!
 * ogra_ feels less alone knowing that maco is with him
<cody-somerville> #endvote
<ogra_> maco, even at UDS :)
<Laney> [endvote]
<cody-somerville> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<Laney> \o/
<RAOF_> \o/
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Contributing Developer Application: Marcin Juszkiewicz
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer Application: Marcin Juszkiewicz
<hrw> ;)
<hrw> o/
<cody-somerville> hrw, Hi Marcin. Could you please introduce yourself and your application?
<cody-somerville> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcinJuszkiewicz/DeveloperApplicationForUniverseContributor
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcinJuszkiewicz/DeveloperApplicationForUniverseContributor
 * ogra_ cheers for hrw 
<hrw> Hi, I'm Marcin Juszkiewicz, working for Linaro. most of my work is related to cross compilation support in Ubuntu (since 10.10).
<hrw> I maintain cross toolchain (amd64/i386 -> armel) and work on fixing ftfbs on armel platform
<hrw> user of Debian since 1999, moved to Ubuntu year ago due to Linaro work.
<hrw> 7 years in OpenEmbedded project as developer, worked as release maintainer of last versions of OpenZaurus distribution
<Laney> could Debian benefit from any of your work in Ubuntu? Have you been involved with any Debian developent in the past?
<ogra_> marcin did awesome work to enable the arm community to do sane cross builds, he really deserves to be able to upload the bits he maintains
<cody-somerville> hrw, What contribution to Ubuntu are you most proud of?
<hrw> I maintained rox-filer outside of debian for a while and now (with few guys from emdebian team) I work on moving my corss toolchain to debian
<hrw> cody-somerville: cross toolchain packages. they build for debian/ubuntu/linaro backport ppa from one set of debian/rules
<hrw> oneiric version is ready for being merge - but I left that for after uds due to lack of time
<cody-somerville> Any further questions?
<Laney> not from me
<stgraber> nope
<maco> nope
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Ubuntu Contributing Developer Application: Marcin Juszkiewicz
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer Application: Marcin Juszkiewicz.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Laney> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Laney. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<bdrung> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<_persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from _persia. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<cody-somerville> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<cody-somerville> Congratulations hrw.
<hrw> \o/
<Laney> :)
<rsalveti> \o/
<hrw> thanks
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] PerPackageUploader Application 'John Rigby' for packages u-boot-linaro and linux-linaro.
<MootBot> New Topic:  PerPackageUploader Application 'John Rigby' for packages u-boot-linaro and linux-linaro.
<Laney> there's no source package linux-linaro btw
<hrw> Laney: was in maverick, then got split into few iirc
<Laney> yeah there are a few linux-linaro-*
<Laney> move on?
<_persia> The ability to split the package is attributable to jrigby (thanks), but we do need a list.
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Contributing Developer Application: Phillip Susi
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer Application: Phillip Susi
<hrw> ok, will catch him to update application
<Laney> psusi: hi
<cody-somerville> psusi, Please introduce yourself and your application. :)
<RAOF_> How are you not alreadyâ¦ something? :)
<Laney> he was around recently
<Laney> blast!
<ogra_> RAOF_, to busy answering bumail ? :)
<ogra_> *bugmail
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Core Developer Application:  Barry Warsaw
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Core Developer Application:  Barry Warsaw
<barry> hi!
<barry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BarryWarsaw/MyApplication
<psusi> hello
<barry> i'm barry warsaw.  i work for ubuntu foundations.  have been an ubuntu user since 2007 and a linux/unix user for a bazillion years before that
<Laney> make mailman stop spamming me every month!
<psusi> woops, was rebooting for a moment
<barry> Laney, you should see how much *i* get :)
<barry> in natty cycle i worked heavily on python 2.7 transition
<maco> psusi: we'll grab you next
<psusi> roger
<Laney> (http://paste.ubuntu.com/605246/ ;)
<barry> and i'm working w/debian to get those changes and others upstream
 * Laney stops trolling now
<cody-somerville> barry, So, you've submitted a core-developer application before. Can you tell us a little bit about what you've done since then?
<barry> i've done a couple of sru's since then
<barry> and have more packages under my belt
<Laney> I see you plan on working on pkgme/quickly â is this an indicator that you think Debian packaging is too difficult? What could we do better?
<barry> for python packages, i'd like to see that anything with a setup.py is just one button push away from being packaged for debian/ubuntu
<cody-somerville> barry, How would you characterize your understanding of Debian packaging compared to when you last applied?
<barry> dh_python2 makes packages easier (and i've been working on that transition too)
<barry> but i do think that many rules files are kind of magical :)
<Laney> 'dh' is very magical
<barry> cody-somerville, i think i have a better understanding of versioning, and how the relationship between ubuntu and debian works better
<barry> Laney, it is, but kind of in a good way :)  i think make files are rather incomprehensible to many people (in my experience)
<barry> i very often get questions about make/autotools/etc
 * maco does not like pure makefiles. cmake or setup.py pretty please
<cody-somerville> barry, In a nutshell, why should we approve you for core developer in contrast to when you last applied?
<barry> cody-somerville, i think i've learned a lot since then, had many successfully sponsored patches, and have more good endorsements since last time
<cody-somerville> barry, Can you give us a good example?
<bdrung> barry: you are familiar with python packages. are you familiar with other type of packages?
<barry> cody-somerville, good example of sponsored stuff or endorsements?
<barry> bdrung, i have done a few other types of packages.  some vala stuff early in the last cycle
<cody-somerville> barry, an example of your work
<barry> i'm naturally heavy w/python stuff both because of my background and because the py27 transition was so important to natty cycle
<barry> sru for a fuse problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fuse/+bug/697792
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 697792 in fuse (Ubuntu Natty) "permissions of /etc/fuse.conf are reset on upgrade" [Medium,Fix released]
<barry> (that wasn't python specific)
<barry> i recently debugged a problem w/virtualenv and python 3 (which *should* work in debian, but doesn't) and submitted a fix in debian for that
<barry> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=625784
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=625784
<ubottu> Debian bug 625784 in python-virtualenv "python-virtualenv: 'virtualenv -p python3 xx' should work but doesn't" [Important,Open]
<cody-somerville> barry, Would you have felt comfortable pushing that change into the archive yourself?
<barry> i like taking on difficult problems :)  that virtualenv one was particularly fun to figure out and fix
<barry> cody-somerville, the virtualenv one? yes, i would
<cody-somerville> barry, I was referring to the fix for the fuse issue.
<barry> ah, yes.  i would.  i tested it quite thoroughly both before and after, with test packages in my ppa, etc.
<barry> i was very confident that it fixed the bug, but still appreciated code review of it (which i'm a big proponent of)
<Laney> did you watch the bugs afterward to make sure there were no regressions?
<barry> that's one reason for example, that i really like udd to working on patches.  merge proposals are a great interface for doing code reviews
<barry> Laney, i did
<barry> note too, that there were srus for both maverick and lucid
<cody-somerville> Any other questions?
<stgraber> not from me
<Laney> nein
<bdrung> no
<bdrung> nincs
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Barry Warsaw
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Barry Warsaw.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cody-somerville> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<Laney> Mahou'hpu
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<_persia> +1 : Thanks for taking the time to demonstrate a bit more scope since your last application.
<MootBot> +1 received from _persia. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<bdrung> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Laney> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Laney. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<cody-somerville> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
<stgraber> barry: congrats!
<cody-somerville> barry, Thats quite the turn around. Congratulations.
<Laney> wooooooo
<barry> thanks very much!
<bdrung> congrats
<cody-somerville> Unfortunately thats all the time we have today.
<cody-somerville> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:01.
<maco> psusi: sorry about getting skipped :-(
<psusi> no problem... bad timing for a reboot ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-10
<galfly> Hi guys
<galfly> Is it necessary to have been developing for ubuntu to join meetings, say the one in May 19th in Americas?
<IdleOne> galfly: everybody is welcome
<IdleOne> if there is a specific issue you want to discuss that isn't already on the meeting agenda go ahead and add it.
<galfly> IdleOne: Cool. Thanks.
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-11
<iSkorup> Meeting soon!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-12
<rajsmart> Hello
<Captainkrtek> hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-14
<AndrewMC> #startmeeting Ubuntu Youth
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:02. The chair is AndrewMC.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<AndrewMC> HI all welcome to the Ubuntu Youth team meeting can everyone who is here please say: here
<AndrewMC> here
<hakimsheriff> here
<BasicXP> here
<JasonO> Here
<Gulfstream> here
<MichealH> here
<Daniel0108> hi
<AndrewMC> okay
<robotman> here
<AndrewMC> #topic New team leader
<AndrewMC> [topic] New team leader
<MootBot> New Topic:  New team leader
<AndrewMC> So, as most of you know zkrieese was our leader for a long time, and due to real life issues he has put me in charge
<AndrewMC> I am honered to be here and hope to help this team go far
<AndrewMC> [Topic] Merdging with the Beginners Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Merdging with the Beginners Team
<AndrewMC> Okay, so the council has talked and we have decided to bring this forward to the whole team, we are thinking that it may be wise for Ubuntu Youth to merdge with the beginners team
<AndrewMC> (This is where all of you chime in with your opinions hehe)
<hakimsheriff> Why would we do that?
<AndrewMC> hakimsheriff: Well the beginners team and Ubuntu Youth seem to share nearly identical if not identical goals, i think a merdger would benifit both teams
<hakimsheriff> oh okay
<JasonO> O agree, we should merge with UBT because it will help new comers get involved with projects and find something they love to do. Instead of doing nothing or taking their own path(s).
<hakimsheriff> yes that could work
 * BasicXP nods
<Gulfstream> but is there any harm that could result in the merge?
<UndiFineD> AndrewMC, did you talk to the UBT council about this ?
<AndrewMC> UndiFineD: yes I have
<MichealH> I was away :P
<UndiFineD> ok, cool, what was their view ?
<AndrewMC> UndiFineD: well they said that they would either have someone from the (BT) council come and help us or we could actually merdge with them
<AndrewMC> What I plan on doing is, seeing is if this is REALLY something that this team wants then the (UY) council will finalize with the the Beginners Team council
<Gulfstream> I don't think it is a good idea
<AndrewMC> Gulfstream: no, please voice your opinion, that is what this meeting is about :)
<UndiFineD> well I think that would work alright, the only ones I have not met yet are Gulfstream, BasicXP , robotman I think
 * UndiFineD waves
<robotman> hello
<AndrewMC> UndiFineD: and the problem with UY is, why does someone need to join a seperate team when the beginners team is already there and has a full mentor (or whatever its called) system in place.
<Gulfstream> but Ubuntu youth is designed for youth
<UndiFineD> how many youthful people do you have currently ?
<hakimsheriff> Me
<AndrewMC> UndiFineD: everyone in #ubuntu-youth with +v are team members
<robotman> Well i think it would be benificial becuase as a new person there area  ton  of similar communuties which means that you have to be in a ton of seperate teams to get noticed
<robotman> even though they do similar things
<hakimsheriff> Maybe it could be the Youth Focus Group in the Ubuntu Beginners team?
<AndrewMC> Gulfstream: Well, (again this is all still in planning) what I am thinking is, that we would still have our own IRC channel and such but it would be a place for the youth of the beginners team to hang out and work together on projects
<UndiFineD> alright guys I was just being curious, continue with your meeting
<AndrewMC> UndiFineD: oh no, we value input
<AndrewMC> Gulfstream: so yes basicaly a youth focus group
 * JasonO Has been up for 20 hours, needs some sleep. Good bye.
 * JasonO robotman also expressed his opinion
<AndrewMC> So, are we all set to vote on this or does anyone else want to bring something up?
<MichealH> AndrewMC, I'm good :)
<Gulfstream> so what would be the real gains of merging to UBT? Or is it just as good as having the teams the way they are now?
<AndrewMC> Gulfstream: Well i think it will really improve membership.
<BasicXP> I understood team goals differently. Ubuntu Youth is for engaging youth in different projects, while Ubuntu Beginners is "to enhance the initial experience of new Ubuntu users"
<Gulfstream> that's how I understood the teams when I looked at the pages.
<BasicXP> You said the goals of both teams are similar. I just don't get the similarity
<AndrewMC> BasicXP: Well UY is pretty much the same thing, and the beginers team (as least for me) was my starting point, UY was designed to be a beginners team for youth which is why it makes sense to merdge with the beginners team.
<robotman> The main thing i see that was differant when i was looking into joining teams was that UBT has bug and DEv section
<AndrewMC> The way I see UY (after the merdger) would be a place for the youth of the beginners team to come together and chat and work together on projects.
<BasicXP> AndrewMC: then ubuntu-youth becomes sort of youth focus group, as Gulfstream already said
<BasicXP> that might work
<AndrewMC> BasicXP: Yes, i beleive that is what the BT council would do
<BasicXP> btw, merge :)
<AndrewMC> #vote Should we activly persue a merdger with the Beginners Team?
<AndrewMC> grr
<Gulfstream> so then what would be changed?
<AndrewMC> Gulfstream: We wouldnt be seperate team, we wouldnt need to have our own membership process
<Gulfstream> AndrewMC: so all existing UBT members would be UY members or vice versa?
<AndrewMC> Gulfstream: That I dont know yet, I have just gotten the ok from the BT council to bring this up, the specifics of the merger have yeto to be determined, what we didnt want to happen was we get everything all set to go and find out that this was not something that the team wanted.
<AndrewMC> I assume (note ASSUME) we would fall under the Focus group rules
<BasicXP> BUT the current team goals include more then just beginner education
<AndrewMC> If we vote this up then the UY council will work out the specifics of the deal and then hold another meeting before anything is written in stone
<Gulfstream> I think there would actually be a need for a separate UY membership service, so there isn't any inappropriate spamming
<AndrewMC> [vote] Should we activly persue a merger with the Beginners Team?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Should we activly persue a merger with the Beginners Team?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<AndrewMC> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from AndrewMC. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MichealH> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from MichealH. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<robotman> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from robotman. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Gulfstream> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Gulfstream. 3 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MichealH> AndrewMC, Cos I am a Grammer Nazi Its *merge* :)
<AndrewMC> Remember that this is ONLY deciding if we should move forward this this, after we get a full plan laid out from the BT council we will hold another meeting before anything is set in stone
<AndrewMC> any last votes
<popey> MichealH: its merger. and it's grammar, and it's 'because'. :0
<AndrewMC> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 1 against. 0 abstained. Total: 2
<AndrewMC> Okay, so this WILL be brought forward to the BT council, and we will hold another meeting once we get a full plan laid out
<AndrewMC> [topic] Any final concerns, quesitons, or ideas?
<MichealH> popey, Oh, I thought he ment merge *hides*
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any final concerns, quesitons, or ideas?
<AndrewMC> okay, I would like to thank all of you who attended today, have a great day/afternoon/evening and keep hacking :)
<BasicXP> i'm sorry, had to reboot, my computer gone crazy
<BasicXP> AndrewMC: what was the decision on the merging?
<Gulfstream> <AndrewMC> Okay, so this WILL be brought forward to the BT council, and we will hold another meeting once we get a full plan laid out
<AndrewMC> Gulfstream: beat me to it :)
<BasicXP> thanks
<hakimsheriff> sorry everyone, i had to leave, but i am back now
<AndrewMC> okay so any further discussion will be held in #ubuntu-youth again thanks for attending
<AndrewMC> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:39.
<Mkaysi> here
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-15
<freshman> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-08
<gipsypyaesone> hello, is there any meeting for asia? I think it is too early :-)
<head_victim> gipsypyaesone: in about 30 minutes
<gipsypyaesone> <head_victim> >> Thanks
<benonsoftware> RMB meeting now?
<Destine> benonsoftware, yes.
 * benonsoftware wishes jaddi27 good luck
 * head_victim is here now, sorry for being late
<Destine> head_victim, hey
<head_victim> Gday, just pinging around to see if other members are around
<elky> here
<head_victim> Just need one more for quorum.
<Destine> lifeless?
<Destine> ejat,
<Destine> head_victim, anybody else?
<head_victim> Destine: trying for another one
<gipsypyaesone> here, gipsy
<head_victim> Sorry all, we're having problems getting quorum (enough people to conduct the meeting).
<jamesh> how long do you usually wait in situations like this?
<elky> usually until half an hour
<jamesh> okay
<elky> the problem is that the UDS has taken all the potential substitutes and put them somewhere where it's 3am
<Destine> elky, true indeed.
<elky> this happens every UDS
<gipsypyaesone> not started?
<jaddi27> gipsypyaesone, There are not enough people to make a quorum for the meeting to occur tonight
<gipsypyaesone> ok ok
<head_victim> Sorry to all the applicants, we don't have enough board members to proceed. This is probably due to UDS that is occurring.
<gipsypyaesone> anything?
<Pendulum> head_victim: how many short are you?
<Pendulum> sorry, I had the wrong time in my head, but I've actually been up for most of an hour so I could have helped :-/
<gipsypyaesone> i think we should change date and time.
<gipsypyaesone> :-)
<james__> highvoltage: https://plus.google.com/109922199462633401279/posts/HgdeFDfRzNe
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-09
<barry> join #ubuntu-uds-junior-ballroom-2
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-06
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> meeting in five minutes
<ScottK> \o
<bdrung> glatzor doesn't seem to be online
<micahg> o/
 * stgraber waves
<bdrung> we are quorable
<bdrung> quorable or quorumable
<micahg> quorate
<bdrung> good to know
<bdrung> is our chair Laney here?
<tumbleweed> hi
<tumbleweed> cody-somerville: any chance you can change our calendar event to match the agenda?
<tumbleweed> (or anyone with fridge calendar admin privileges)
<micahg> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May  6 15:08:04 2013 UTC.  The chair is micahg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<micahg> welcome to the bi-weekly DMB meeting
<micahg> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:  Review of previous action items
<micahg> #subtopic bdrung to write up a short summary of sweetshark's recent sponsorship
<micahg> bdrung: I think this is done, right?
<barry> micahg: it has been done
<micahg> #subtopic barry to conduct sweetshark ppu vote on ubuntu-dmb list
<bdrung> yes
<barry> not done, but will do so this week
<micahg> so, this wasn't done yet as we're still discussing the feedback
<micahg> #subtopic all: review separation of ppu from membership
<bdrung> should we discuss it here or on email?
<micahg> bdrung: email I think
<micahg> bdrung: which thing?
<bdrung> micahg: i could answer your questions and we could discuss it here or i response via email after the meetinng
<micahg> bdrung: yeah, I think email is better
<bdrung> okay
<micahg> so, what about the PPU/membership stuff, did we have consensus?
<bdrung> i think so
<tumbleweed> looked like it
<barry> yes
<micahg> ok, so I guess we need a vote, should we wait until next time when Laney is present?
<micahg> or does the list count as the vote?
<bdrung> why should we wait for him?
<tumbleweed> list vote counts as far as I'm concerned
<micahg> oh, we haven't heard from stgraber yet who raised the objections originally
<micahg> so, I'll try to ping him for feedback this week and we can announce the change at the next meeting hopefully
<micahg> #action micahg to ping stgraber for feedback on PPU/membership decoupling proposal
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to ping stgraber for feedback on PPU/membership decoupling proposal
<micahg> #topic PerPackageUploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:  PerPackageUploader Applications
<micahg> hrm, I still don't see glatzor around
<micahg> I guess we can wait a few minutes (until :20), otherwise, I'll wrap the meeting
<barry> darn.  he said he was going to be here this week. :/
<stgraber> micahg: sorry, been sprinting last week, will try to go through that thread and reply this week
<micahg> barry: well, hopefully next time...
<micahg> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:  AOB
<micahg> anything else?
<micahg> stgraber: thanks
<barry> nothing from me
<bdrung> i don't think so
<micahg> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May  6 15:22:50 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-06-15.08.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-06-15.08.html
<micahg> thanks everyone!
<tumbleweed> thanks micahg
<barry> thanks micahg
<jdstrand> hi!
<jjohansen> hi
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May  6 16:34:24 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Evan Broder (broder) provided a debdiff for lucid for libapache-mod-security (LP: #1169030)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1169030 in modsecurity-apache (Ubuntu) "CVE 2013-1915: local files disclosure or resource exhaustion via XML External Entity attack" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1169030
<jdstrand> Scott Kitterman (ScottK) provided a debdiff for hardy for clamav and new package for saucy (LP: #1172981)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1172981 in clamav (Ubuntu Hardy) "clamav 0.97.8 security update" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1172981
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> I've got openjdk-6 updates to finish testing and publish
<jdstrand> last week a very productive week, and I've got lots of notes to assimilate and things to follow-up on, so I'll be doing that quite a bit
<jdstrand> there is an embargoed issue I'm going to be looking at
<jdstrand> and patch piloting
<jdstrand> that's it from me. mdeslaur, you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> and I have a few updates in the sec ppa to test and hopefully release this week
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm working on apparmor stuff this week
<sbeattie> I'm currently finishing up a couple of carried over work items, the aa-easyprof templates for qml apps and html5 apps
<sbeattie> after that, I'll move on to modifying aa-easyprof to take a manifest file and emit policy
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> This week, I'm working on this blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-s-appisolation-dbus-performance
<tyhicks> I finshed my carryover work item last week
<tyhicks> I'm wrapping up "adjust policy language to better match the network rule style and use more appropriate dbus keywords"
<tyhicks> then I'll move on to the performance testing work items
<tyhicks> then chat w/ jj to determine the best route forward to improve performance (if needed) and start on those changes
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> hi I'm am working on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdev-s-appisolation-signals-ipc-ptrace
<jjohansen> and doing a little prep for tomorrows apparmor meeting
<jjohansen> sarnold: your up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week
<sarnold> I'll be doing some patch review for john, and if steve or tyler have anything ready, that'd be fun too :)
<tyhicks> I have some stuff that I can send up this week
<sarnold> I may also look over some seccomp patches for upstart, that sounds like a good wayto reduce attack surfaces overall, and some of our time on it would probably eb worthwhile
<sarnold> tyhicks: woot :)
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, and I don't see steakbot^Wchrisccoulson, so jdstrand, your turn
<jdstrand> yeah, it is a UK holiday
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-htmlpurifier.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mpack.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gnash.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/geshi.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libpoe-component-pubsub-perl.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May  6 16:54:05 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-06-16.34.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-06-16.34.html
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<tyhicks> thanks
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> thanks jdstrand
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-08
<amachu> à®²à¯à®à¯ à®à®¤à¯à®¤à®¾à®à¯à®à®¾à®à¯ à®à®´à¯à®à¯à®à®µà®à¯à® à®¤à¯à®à®°à¯à®à¯à®. à®à¯à®à¯à®à®à¯à®ªà®³à¯à®³à®¿ à®®à®¾à®¤à®°à®¿ à®¨à®¿à®±à¯à®¯ à®à®°à¯à®à®³à¯ à®µà®°à¯à®à¯à®à®¾à®²à®¤à¯à®¤à®¿à®²à¯ à®à®¿à®à¯à®à¯à®à¯à®®à¯. à®¤à®²à¯à®µà®°à¯à®à®³à¯ à®à®©à¯à®©à®à®¤à¯à®¤à®¿à®² à®ªà¯à® à®à®´à¯à®¤à®à¯ à®à¯à®²à¯à®²à¯à®à¯à® à®®à¯à®¤à®²à®¿à®²à¯.
<amachu> that was a wrong channel
<amachu> sorry
<ev> o/
 * slangasek waves
<stokachu> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed May  8 15:01:27 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> stgraber doko ev slangasek xnox barry bdmurray cjwatson stokachu jodh
<slangasek> stgraber: hi :)
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> First report in a month or so. Been traveling, releasing 13.04, sprinting and finally back home.
<stgraber> Feature work:
<stgraber>  - Image based updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1305-image-based-updates)
<stgraber>   - Finalized design of the whole solution during the sprint, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades
<stgraber>   - Implemented early proof of concept server-side at: https://phablet.stgraber.org (sprint channel)
<stgraber>   - Got a working test client at: lp:~stgraber/+junk/resolver-sprint-demo
<stgraber>   - Started rewriting the current server code to move from squashfs to tar.xz and run without privileges
<stgraber>   - Opened RT ticket for the server infrastructure
<stgraber>   - Trying to get the next steps for the GPG side of things sorted
<stgraber>  - Mobile sync and provisioning (OMA)
<stgraber>   - Spent some time discussing with Tony Espy about state of OMA CP in Android and how the ofono/android driver will deal with that
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - Merges. isc-dhcp merged, netbase synced, started looking at ifupdown and ifenslave-2.6
<stgraber>  - Changed dependencies of ltt-control as we now have lttng in the Ubuntu kernel
<stgraber>  - Bugfixes/SRU for LXC, cherry-picking high priority bugs into 13.04
<stgraber>  - Upstart in saucy now has user sessions enabled by default. The only Xsession script that had to be ported was gpg-agent.
<stgraber>  - Some work on the QA tracker to allow product leads to trigger rebuilds
<stgraber>  - Reinstalled my usual set of test machines on saucy
<stgraber> TODO:
<stgraber>  - Continue porting the image based server side code to python3-tarfile
<stgraber>  - Get some kind of UI and API on the new rebuild feature of the QA tracker
<stgraber>  - Continue with the remaining merges
<stgraber> (DONE)
<stokachu> stgraber: that pattern matching for dhcp worked awesome
<stokachu> thanks for that
<slangasek> doko: around?
<stgraber> stokachu: yay! should have thought of that before I applied that patch to 13.04, we could have save ourselves that patch entirely ;)
<slangasek> ev: go ahead
<ev> very short week - sprint last week, holiday Monday and Tuesday
<ev> Stagingstack deployments of the entire infrastructure now exist as of the sprint - https://errors.staging.ubuntu.com/
<ev> Spending my time getting the final bits done on the charms so we can go live on prodstack (OOPS reporting to a central server, handling our various cron jobs, etc)
<ev> (done - iknowright?)
<barry> :-o
<slangasek> !
<ev> ha
<slangasek>  * in Oakland last week - lots and lots of planning meetings :)
<slangasek>   * these will feed into the public discussions at vUDS next week - many of the relevant blueprints have already been registered
<slangasek>  * doing merges for saucy; merged kexec-tools, then ran into a terribly knotty acpica-unix NMU that needs serious fixing before getting merged
<slangasek>  * working on syncing Debian/Ubuntu on the upstart architecture
<slangasek>  * on vacation next week, so will miss UDS for the most part... if you have any sessions you need me at, be sure to ping me directly and I'll see if I can make it
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> xnox on vacation
<slangasek> barry:
<barry> - recovering from the sprint (i.e. getting my inbox to below 500 messages ;)
<barry> - merging in and refactoring resolver fixes from the plane ride and stgraber's demo branch.  switching gpg code over to python3-gnupg which provides a somewhat more straightforward api (despite missing an necessary feature, easily hacked around).
<barry> - lp:~barry/+junk/resolver is the canonical location and should now be up-to-date
<barry> - lots of TODOs described in the branch.  top priorities include checking image zip signatures and plumbing through the reboot initiation.
<barry> done.
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader bug triage
<bdmurray> investigation into bug 390319
<bdmurray> investigation into bug 1175637 regarding kernels being marked as manually installed
<bdmurray> testing / fixing of package-version-new-buckets API call on errors
<ubottu> bug 390319 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu does not automatically check for updates, even when set to" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/390319
<ubottu> bug 1175637 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "Kernel updates are being marked as manually installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1175637
<bdmurray> uploaded apport bug fix for cloud_archive hook error in 1173240
<bdmurray> worked on phased updater glue code between launchpad and errors
<bdmurray> â done
<cjwatson> Really being kicked in the head by jetlag this week.  Apologies for doziness.
<cjwatson> foundations-1305-arm64-bringup: Resurrected the auto-cross-builder and finished off raring builds last week.  Need to start it up for saucy.
<cjwatson> A bit of UDS prep.  I've registered all the blueprints I know we want at this point.
<cjwatson> foundations-1305-click-package: Prepared and posted initial click-package announcement.  Publicising prototype early next week; need to make some progress on new unpack directory layout and hooks interface before then.
<cjwatson> Packaged OpenSSH 6.2p1.
<cjwatson> Various merges and such.  Went through a number of packages orphaned in Debian and applied Ubuntu patches to them so we can sync.
<cjwatson> Holiday on Friday.
<cjwatson> ..
<stokachu> bug 1022545 - Waiting on SRU
<stokachu> bug 1144612 - Waiting on SRU
<stokachu> bug 1169740 - Waiting on SRU
<ubottu> bug 1022545 in rsyslog (Ubuntu Raring) "Backport upstream bugfix "$PreserveFQDN on" not working properly" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022545
<stokachu> bug 604717 - I dont believe this is SRU worthy, would like opinion.
<stokachu> bug 1175687 - This is for one binary but we might as well convert rpm to multi-arch
<ubottu> bug 1144612 in cifs-utils (Ubuntu Precise) "mount.cifs incorrectly update /etc/mtab when -o remount is used" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1144612
<ubottu> bug 1169740 in rsyslog (Ubuntu Quantal) "rsyslog hangs loading modules" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1169740
<stokachu> bug 857983 - In verified state, needs some attention to move forward
<stokachu> bug 1004775 - This just hit unapproved queue, however, due to importance would like to see this approved.
<ubottu> bug 604717 in ntp (Ubuntu) "Please convert init script to upstart" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/604717
<ubottu> bug 1175687 in rpm (Ubuntu) "Please mark rpm2cpio Multi-Arch: foreign" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1175687
<ubottu> bug 857983 in gpointing-device-settings (Ubuntu Quantal) "The Pointing Devices menu item is missing after upgrading to Oneiric" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857983
<stokachu> bug 1121874 - Just uploaded, needs sponsor/sru, not expecting that today but just to add to my current list.
<ubottu> bug 1004775 in network-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "NetworkManager restarts dnsmasq and adds host route on every IPv6 route lookup" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004775
<ubottu> bug 1121874 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Raring) "MySQL launch fails silently if < 4MB of disk space is available" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1121874
<stokachu> misc:
<stokachu>   - Going to start looking existing porting efforts of ubuntu touch to sgs2 and attempt to contribute
<stokachu>   - continue working on python-salesforce
<stokachu> (done)
 * doko woke up
<cjwatson> You're having a day like mine then ...
<slangasek> stokachu: bug #604717 might be SRU-worthy, *if* the current behavior results in services trying to start out of order and failing
<ubottu> bug 604717 in ntp (Ubuntu) "Please convert init script to upstart" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/604717
<stokachu> slangasek: ok ill follow up with support/OP
<slangasek> stokachu: #857983> according to http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html, there's another bug in that upload, bug #796171, which hasn't been verified yet
<ubottu> bug 796171 in gpointing-device-settings (Debian) "Does not appear in Xfce's main menu" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/796171
<stokachu> slangasek: ah my bad i keep forgetting to check that page
<slangasek> stokachu: 1175687> looks straightforward; do you need support there, or are you just going to push a patch to sponsors?
<slangasek> stokachu: oh, and is that the t-mobile sgs2 or the international sgs2? :)
<stokachu> at&t i777
<stokachu> at least thats the one i have
<slangasek> stgraber: can you take bug #1004775?
<ubottu> bug 1004775 in network-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "NetworkManager restarts dnsmasq and adds host route on every IPv6 route lookup" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004775
<slangasek> ah drat
<slangasek> that helps me not at all!
<stokachu> haha sorry! :D
<slangasek> doko: morning!  want to give your status?
<stgraber> slangasek: I'd be happy to if I was on the SRU team ;)
<slangasek> stgraber: oh, I thought it still needed sponsorship
<stgraber> slangasek: nope, it's in unapproved
<slangasek> well, FINE then
<slangasek> :)
<stokachu> yea that one just hit unapproved queue
<stokachu> but its a hot one :)
<slangasek> I'll have a look at it this morning
<stokachu> cool man really appreciate it
<slangasek> doko: ?
<doko> ahh
<doko> - started with merges
<doko> - preparing a test rebuild
<doko> - tomorrow is bank holiday, and intending not to work on Friday (swapping the May 1 bank holiday)
<doko> (end)
<slangasek> :-)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: you had a bug you posted to the team list earlier... did anyone follow up on that?
<slangasek> (I've misplaced the mail so I don't have the bug #, sorry)
<bdmurray> I think infinity did and kirkland added a merge proosal
<slangasek> ok
<bdmurray> https://code.launchpad.net/~kirkland/ubuntu-release-upgrader/1173209/+merge/162798
<stokachu> bug 859600 is not blocked by the other keyring bug
<ubottu> bug 859600 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Precise) "Please convert gnome-keyring to multiarch" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/859600
<stokachu> but i think libgcr needs multi-arch now
<slangasek> bdmurray: so we'll leave that in infinity's hands?
<bdmurray> slangasek: yes, sounds good
<stokachu> bug 1094496 was verified by OP
<ubottu> bug 1094496 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Precise) "gnome-keyring-daemon leaks memory" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1094496
<slangasek> stokachu: yep, so that's good for publication... 859600 needs sponsorship then?
<stokachu> slangasek: yes sir
<slangasek> can someone here sponsor gnome-keyring to precise for bug #859600?  it's been pending for a while... now that it's unblocked on the other SRU, we should get that in
<ubottu> bug 859600 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Precise) "Please convert gnome-keyring to multiarch" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/859600
<slangasek> stgraber: how about you, since the last bug didn't stick? ;)
<stgraber> slangasek: sure, I can take that one ;)
<stokachu> also bug 1022545 and 1144612 needs sponsors
<ubottu> bug 1022545 in rsyslog (Ubuntu Raring) "Backport upstream bugfix "$PreserveFQDN on" not working properly" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1022545
<ubottu> bug 1144612 in cifs-utils (Ubuntu Precise) "mount.cifs incorrectly update /etc/mtab when -o remount is used" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1144612
<slangasek> stokachu: if nobody gets to them before then, I have my patch pilot day coming up next week
<stokachu> slangasek: ok sounds good
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else, then?
<stokachu> im good
<slangasek> anyone? :)
<doko> im tired
 * slangasek lets doko get back to being a zombie
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed May  8 15:38:14 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-08-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-08-15.01.html
<slangasek> thanks, all :)
<barry> thanks!
<ev> thanks
<stokachu> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-10
<tullymore> #ubuntu-tv
<tullymore> oops.ie
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-05
<sil2100> o/
 * kenvandine high fives sil2100!
 * bdmurray is here
 * xnox hello
<sil2100> Hi!
<sil2100> xnox, bdmurray: hello, is there any chance for the meeting to still take place today?
<sil2100> xnox, bdmurray: if now, would it be possible for my MOTU application to be considered through e-mail instead?
<sil2100> s/now/not
<micahg-work> sil2100, that might be an option yes
<sil2100> \o/
<sil2100> Would be awesome, how should I proceed for that to happen?
<micahg-work> I think we just need to confirm internally that there are no objections, you should hear from us within a day or two, there will probably be questions by E-Mail if we go that route
<sil2100> micahg-work: thank you :)
<micahg-work> sil2100, thanks for your great work
<micahg-work> and I'm sorry we weren't able to have quorum today
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> hol
<mdeslaur> hello
<jjohansen> \o
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May  5 16:34:57 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I got the openjdk updates out last week
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> I went through the blueprints last week and think 14.04 is up to date
<jdstrand> as a first pass, I carried over the work from 14.04 to 14.10 blueprints
<jdstrand> I plan on discussing this with mdeslaur and then we can go over it all as a team this week
<jdstrand> then I have sprint planning
<jdstrand> there are also some 14.10 apparmor policy updates (apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu) that I hope to do this week
<jdstrand> and I am looking at various open CVEs to fix
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I have some updates I just published, and am continuing to down down the never ending CVE list :)
<mdeslaur> that's about it from me!
<mdeslaur> also, some blueprint discussion with jdstrand
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up!
<sbeattie> I'm continuing some work I started last week on improving gcc hardening.
<sbeattie> I have a patch that updates the default to -fstack-protector-strong (and fixes some issues with -Wformat-security patch), but am currently exploring alternate approaches discovered while trying to figure out the best way to make the default be PIE for amd64 only.
<sbeattie> I also need to investigate seem reports that apache mod_apparmor may be not working correctly in trusty
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me this week.
<sbeattie> tyhicks, you're up
<tyhicks> I'm still hacking on kdbus from last week
<tyhicks> I also need to merge dbus from debian and refresh our mediation patches with the latest set that I've attached in the upstream bug
<tyhicks> oh, and I have a short week this week since I'm off on Friday
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I have an embargoed issue to finish up with, then more testing of the newest images with the trusty backport kernels.
<jjohansen> I need to get a set of patches together for upstream and push them so they are ready for the next merge window
<jjohansen> then I need to get back to finishing off the stacking work for apparmor
<jjohansen> - the patches for upstream this time are mostly around enabling dbus mediation with the upstream kernel
<jjohansen> thats it for me sarnold your up
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week; I need to return to getting the qrt test-django script to function on saucy and newer (I got distracted last week by libvirt 'issues'. ugh.) I haven't made much forward progress on test-django yet, it's been frustrating so far.
<sarnold> but now that I've got shiny new VMs, hopefully there aren't many new hurdles to finishing it off :)
<sarnold> depending upon how that goes I may pick up an update
<sarnold> I tihnk that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson is off today
<sarnold> (or is it bank holiday?)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libkdcraw.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/redis.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/plib.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tinymce.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libtar.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> thanks mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen and sarnold :)
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May  5 16:58:15 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-05-16.34.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-07
<belkinsa> godbyk and pmatulis_: ready?
<godbyk> belkinsa: Yep!
<belkinsa> Perfect./
<belkinsa> #startmeeting Doc Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed May  7 18:00:18 2014 UTC.  The chair is belkinsa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Doc Team Meeting | Current topic:
<belkinsa> chair godbyk pmatulis_
<belkinsa> #chair godbyk pmatulis_
<meetingology> Current chairs: belkinsa godbyk pmatulis_
<belkinsa> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
<belkinsa> Who is here for the Doc Team meeting?
<godbyk> o/
<GunnarHj> o/
<pleia2> o/
<belkinsa> Anyone else?
<pmatulis_> hi, i'm here
<belkinsa> Prefect, you are one of the chairs, pmatulis_ and godbyk,
<GunnarHj> So there are three chairs and me. ;)
<belkinsa> And pleia2.
<belkinsa> She is not one.
<GunnarHj> Aha, right..
<belkinsa> Okay, starting now.
<belkinsa> The first item is: Find a time, day, and week for our monthly meetings
<belkinsa> #topic Find a time, day, and week for our monthly meetings
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Doc Team Meeting | Current topic: Find a time, day, and week for our monthly meetings
<belkinsa> I was thinking about using the same day and time as this meeting for every month.  Would this work for everyone?
<pmatulis_> not me, 1 hr earlier is better
<godbyk> As far as I know right now, yes. My schedule is likely to change a bit in a couple weeks, though, but I'll try to keep this slot open for our meeting.
<belkinsa> Alright, pmatulis_.  And cool, godbyk.
<shaunm> hi all
<GunnarHj> Fine for me, whether 1h earlier or not.
<godbyk> belkinsa: An hour earlier is fine for me, too.
<godbyk> Hi, shaunm.
<belkinsa> Hey all, shaunm, we are figuring out a date and time for our monthly meetings.  One our earlier is the most voted option and the same day.
<pleia2> this is a tricky discussion to have during the meeting where all attendees can make this time ;)
<godbyk> pleia2: Good point. :)
<belkinsa> Agreed, would this be better via mailing-list?
<pleia2> well, I think we just agree to an hour earlier than this time and re-evaluate later
<belkinsa> Sure, that can work.
<godbyk> I'd post that time to the list and see if anyone can't make it.
<belkinsa> Alright, do you want to take that action item, godbyk?
<GunnarHj> Yeah, let's decide and let people who are not here object.
<godbyk> belkinsa: Sure.
<belkinsa> #action godbyk Post the new time (and date) for our monthly meetings to the list and ask if it's a good time for the rest
<meetingology> ACTION: godbyk Post the new time (and date) for our monthly meetings to the list and ask if it's a good time for the rest
<godbyk> Which Wednesday are we interested in? First Wednesday of the month or some other one?
<belkinsa> Oh, I think the first Wednesday of the month.
<belkinsa> But anyone else can voice something else.
<pmatulis_> wow, this is going to be a long meeting
<belkinsa> It will, since there is a lot of items.
<GunnarHj> Let's go for first Wednesday, please, and go on.
<belkinsa> Sure.
<belkinsa> Moving on...
<belkinsa> #Topic vUDS Prep
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Doc Team Meeting | Current topic: vUDS Prep
<belkinsa> The vUDS is June 10 to June 12.
<belkinsa> Are going to have a roundtable just like the last time?
<belkinsa> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC
<belkinsa> #topic vUDS Prep
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Doc Team Meeting | Current topic: vUDS Prep
<belkinsa> Sorry
<GunnarHj> Can't hurt.. Do we have more specific topics to discuss?
<godbyk> I think it'd be nice if we could entice some developers and designers to attend in the hopes of recruiting their help in keeping us up to date on user-facing changes that we need to document.
<GunnarHj> +1
<belkinsa> We could talk about a Global Doc Jam that could be in the middle cycle.
<belkinsa> godbyk, I agree.  We need networking with them to get the docs updated.
<pmatulis_> IMO they're too busy
<pleia2> if someone wants to make the blueprint, we can add ideas to it prior to the vuds session so we have some talking points
<pmatulis_> i once had an arrangement to have them just update blueprints whenever something new came up that needed documenting, nothing happened
<pleia2> (I believe this is what we did last time)
<GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Too busy to let the docs team know about news? I'll never accept that.
<pleia2> I have a couple devs who have emailed after I spoke with rick spencer about this last cycle, I can reach out to them
<belkinsa> Sure, that can work, pleia2.
<belkinsa> And I could work out that blueprint for the ideas.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Excellent about the blueprint.
<belkinsa> #action belkinsa Create the next vUDS Doc Team Roundtable Blueprint for ideas on talking points
<meetingology> ACTION: belkinsa Create the next vUDS Doc Team Roundtable Blueprint for ideas on talking points
<belkinsa> #action pleia2 Reach out to developers for updates for Doc Team
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 Reach out to developers for updates for Doc Team
<belkinsa> Are we ready to move on?
<pmatulis_> just a sec
 * belkinsa nods
<pmatulis_> in these blueprints, by "Doc Team" do you mean desktop and server peeps?
<belkinsa> No, all sub-teams: wiki and manual included.
<pmatulis_> so where is this 'developer news' going to end up?
<pleia2> in our last blueprint we had subsections for each team
<pleia2> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-1311-docteam-roundtable
<godbyk> pmatulis_: They could just drop emails to the ubuntu-docs list. It doesn't need to be anything complicated.
<belkinsa> Indeed, godbyk has it.
<pmatulis_> godbyk: ok, but srsly, they'll just say to subscribe to some mailing list, but let's move on
<GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Good point. We need to establish some kind of procedure.
<godbyk> pmatulis_: No subscription required. If it ends up in the moderation queue we'll find it.
<pleia2> pmatulis_: I actually have and positive discussions with a couple of devs, so I am more hopeful :)
<belkinsa> Indeed, pmatulis_.  godbyk and I are the mods.
<pmatulis_> pleia2: glad to hear
<pleia2> I think he meant that the devs will tell *us* to just subscribe to the mailing lists
<pmatulis_> yep
<godbyk> Ah, I understand.
<belkinsa> I think someone needs to take on an action item for a procedure on this...
<pleia2> belkinsa: just emailing the list is fine
<belkinsa> Sure. Why not.
<GunnarHj> I'm not sure that emailing the list is fine. People forget.
<GunnarHj> I can take a procedure action item.
<belkinsa> #action GunnarHj Work out a procedure for developers to get updates to Doc Team
<meetingology> ACTION: GunnarHj Work out a procedure for developers to get updates to Doc Team
<belkinsa> Thanks, GunnarHj.
<GunnarHj> yw
<belkinsa> Okay, moving on...
<belkinsa> I think we will skip the Open Help Confectioner (http://openhelpconference.com/) topic and discuss this on the list if needed.
<GunnarHj> Is anyone planning to go there?
<belkinsa> #Topic Open Help Conference
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Doc Team Meeting | Current topic: Open Help Conference
<shaunm> me, of course :)
<belkinsa> I still don't know if I will.
<shaunm> I'd really like to encourage you guys to do a sprint. they're really good for bringing a team together
<belkinsa> Okay, moving on.
<GunnarHj> shaunm: Hmm... I know what sprintf is, but sprint? ;)
<belkinsa> Or not.
<belkinsa> GunnarHj, it's like what we do in the vUDS's.
<shaunm> GunnarHj: it's where the team comes together for a few days to work on stuff
<shaunm> and to be social. the social part is important
<godbyk> shaunm: I'd love to go, but I lack the funds at the moment.
<godbyk> shaunm: It looks like a cool conference, though.
<GunnarHj> I guess it's easier for Americans to go there than for us in Europe..
<belkinsa> Can we move on?
<GunnarHj> shaunm: Is it a 100% IRL event?
<shaunm> GunnarHj: more or less
<GunnarHj> shaunm: It's a pity IMO.
<belkinsa> shaunm and GunnarHj, can do this outside the meeting since we have other items.
<shaunm> sure
<GunnarHj> ok
<belkinsa> Thanks.
<belkinsa> #topic Identifying news that affect the docs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Doc Team Meeting | Current topic: Identifying news that affect the docs
<belkinsa> Since this was yours, GunnarHj, do you want to talk about it?
<GunnarHj> I put up that item, but I think it has been already covered.
<belkinsa> I think so.
<belkinsa> Anyone else?
<belkinsa> Okay, moving on.
<belkinsa> #topic Desktop
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Doc Team Meeting | Current topic: Desktop
<belkinsa> #subtopic Find a driver
<belkinsa> Would this be a better of as a action item that someone can do?
<GunnarHj> Suppose it would be easier to find a driver if there were some contributors. Personally I fear that the lack of persons who are ready to make significant contributions will soon be alarming.
<belkinsa> knome, we are talking about finding a driver for the desktop sub-team.
<belkinsa> Bummer, GunnarHj.  How many do we have right now?
 * knome keeps hidden under the table
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Well, it depends on how you define "significant". But without dsmythies I see Kevin and myself.
<godbyk> Normally, I'd volunteer, but I'm going to be busy this year working on my dissertation.
<GunnarHj> So what do we do? After all we are talking about a highly visible package that is shipped with each Ubuntu installation.
<knome> if nobody wants to take the driver title, then so be it
<knome> let's focus on getting it better with the resources we have and not stumble with bureaucracy
<godbyk> If there's no driver, then we just keep muddling along as we have been, I guess.
<knome> increase publicity of docs during the cycle
<GunnarHj> knome: The resources we have? Which are those?
<knome> random people around at random times.
<GunnarHj> (sorry for sounding so pessimistic, but I am)
<belkinsa> Sorry.
<knome> there are people who want to make the team work better
<belkinsa> Internet died on me.
<pmatulis_> do we know to what extent the online help facility is actually used?
<knome> but might not necessarily be able/willing to work with the desktop docs.
<knome> like me.
<knome> we can send a request for the IS
<knome> ...if we want stats/if there are any
<belkinsa> +1 we need stats.
<pmatulis_> i remember just stumbling upon it.  i'm not a big desktop user mind you
<pmatulis_> i'm not talking about online as in web
<pmatulis_> but online as "in your computer", the docs package
<knome> right.
<knome> how would we know how much that is used?
<knome> there's no sensible way to track that
<pmatulis_> yes, that's what i'm getting at.  a poll comes to mind
<belkinsa> I dig that idea pmatulis_/
<knome> polls are going to be twisted, vocal minority and all
<knome> but sure.
<belkinsa> Who wants to take the action item to make a poll?
<pmatulis_> knome: statistics will always be like that, but we can extract valuable information nonetheless
<knome> pmatulis_, i hope so
<GunnarHj> Not sure I see the point. It's the same content on the computers and at help.ubuntu.com.
<godbyk> There's also this: http://popcon.ubuntu.com/
<godbyk> I'm not sure if it tracks when programs are executed or just if the packages are installed
<knome> godbyk, that only tracks the amount of times the package is installed
<godbyk> knome: Ah, figures.
<pmatulis_> GunnarHj: you don't see the point in having both in-computer and on the web?
<knome> anyway, the poll needs to be conducted somewhere where enough people from all skill levels hang around
<belkinsa> +1
<GunnarHj> pmatulis_: No, what I mean is that it doesn't really matter if people read the docs on the web or on their computers.
<GunnarHj> After all I take it that we think a desktop guide is good to have...
<pmatulis_> GunnarHj: well, that's not what the poll is about
<GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Maybe I missed something. What's the poll about?
<belkinsa> Guys, can we move on and I can give the action item to someone.  (Look at the time)
<pmatulis_> GunnarHj: the poll would be along the lines of: "Do you read docs from the help facility in your computer?"
<pmatulis_> point being, ever since the serverguide ceased to be a package, we have had greater freedom to get stuff done
<GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Ok, I see.
<belkinsa> ...
<pmatulis_> maybe preceeded by: "Do you even know about the help facility in your computer?"
<GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Can't help thinking that there is a big difference between the desktop and the server in this respect.
<pmatulis_> GunnarHj: what respect?
<belkinsa> GUYS!
<GunnarHj> pmatulis_: The server is not shipped with a desktop. :)
<belkinsa> Can this be talked about on the mailing-list because we are running out time.
<pmatulis_> GunnarHj: thanks for reminding me
<GunnarHj> pmatulis_: But sure, it would be nice to know to which extent people know about it and use it, of course.
<knome> i'm not sure what the point of the meetings are if not discussing things
<GunnarHj> knome: Me neither.
<knome> i understand there are schedules and people need to run, but there's clearly discussions to be had
<godbyk> The meeting is for discussing things, but I think we only have this room reserved for the hour.
<godbyk> So we could continue the discussions in #ubuntu-doc.
<knome> we can continue at -doc
<pmatulis_> anyone handling the poll then?
<knome> my point is, if the meetings are held once per 2-3 months and are 2 hours long, maybe we need more meetings.
<belkinsa> Sorry guys, my internet is failing.
<godbyk> Welcome back, belkinsa. If we're out of time in this channel, we can move the discussion to #ubuntu-doc.
<belkinsa> sure.
<belkinsa> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed May  7 19:03:37 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-07-18.00.moin.txt
<belkinsa> Besides my internet is crap
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-08
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
 * mvo waves as well
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May  8 15:02:01 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<cjwatson> Oh I forgot about mumble this week, oops
<slangasek> ah that's why it was quiet
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo)
<slangasek> slangasek jodh infinity mvo barry stgraber cjwatson bdmurray caribou xnox doko
<slangasek> not much news from me this week
<slangasek>  * in contract phase on the Java role
<slangasek>  * busy week for NEW processing for the phone (MMS, qt gles packages)
<slangasek>   * discussions with sergiusens about use of gccgo vs. go-gc for go-based package
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> jodh:
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
<jodh>   - cgroup support:
<jodh>     - Finished reworking test_job_process async test suite. However,
<jodh>       some more recent changes seem to have now broken
<jodh>       test_job so currently identifying the issue and fixing up the tests.
<jodh>     - Currently working with xnox to clean up the branch and identify
<jodh>       fix the remaining tests.
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - Prepared initial fix for bug 1315060. Now adding an append option:
<ubottu> bug 1315060 in upstart (Ubuntu Utopic) "Allow --confdir to look for system jobs in more than one directory" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1315060
<jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1315060
<jodh>   - Merged a fix upstream for building upstart under utopic (thanks to cjwatson
<jodh>     for review): lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/fix-deprecated-json-calls.
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - upgraded to utopic.
<jodh>   - Obtained full strace for bug 1314697.
<ubottu> bug 1314697 in dnsmasq (Ubuntu) "DNS resolution no longer works; dnsmasq uses 100% CPU" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1314697
<jodh> â
<jodh> slangasek: sorry - had to scrabble for my unicode end-of-message glyph :)
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> infinity is at the cloud sprint this week
<slangasek> mvo:
<mvo> = Next week =
<mvo> - further HardwareEnablement EOL work
<mvo> - Click, address issues raised during the code review(s)
<mvo> - work on outstanding trusty ubuntu-release-upgrader issues (i.e.
<mvo>   regression in locale.setlocale())
<mvo> = Last week =
<mvo> click:
<mvo>   lp:~mvo/click/documentation-tweak
<mvo>   lp:~mvo/click/multiple-frameworks
<mvo>   lp:~mvo/upstart-app-launch/hide-on-missing-framework
<mvo> hwe-eol:
<mvo> - Coordination
<mvo> - lp:~mvo/update-manager/hwe-support-status
<mvo> misc:
<mvo> - open/upload translated package description utopic series in LP
<mvo> - Another try to get "apt" bash-completions included #747094, I begin to
<mvo>   think I should maintain this as part of the apt source package myself
<mvo> - Prepare fix for multiarch upgrade issue to send upstream (we need to
<mvo>   have the same pkgname as debian for this fix)
<mvo> - ubuntu-release-upgrader for utopic
<mvo> - (very few) merges - should I do more?
<mvo> apt:
<mvo> - big merge of all abi break branches
<mvo> - debug/fix various smal regression/test-failures in the abi break branch
<cjwatson> mm, I've been meaning to learn how to write bash completion
<mvo> [DONE]
<mvo> prepare fix for multiarch upgrade issue - for samba4
<mvo> (sorry that apparently got lost)
<barry> phone: python3 ports for ubuntu-filemanager-app, webbrowser-app, sudoku-app, autopilot temp-dev fix for sphinx, general autopilot py3 planning, discussions, development.  with help from xnox and thomir, we should be eliminating py2 from touch *in the next day or so*.
<barry> ubu/deb: debian bug 745673, debian bug 732703.
<ubottu> Debian bug 745673 in wnpp "ITP: wheel -- PEP 427-based built-package format for Python" [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/745673
<ubottu> Debian bug 732703 in python3.4 "python3.4: cannot create a virtualenv" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/732703
<barry> misc: upgraded laptop to utopic.  desktop coming soon.
<barry> todo: patch pilot today
<barry> done
 * mvo checks 427
<slangasek> mvo: more merges> there's a long tail of stale merges that no one is dealing with... I claimed the 4-year-old gxine merge the other day. :) http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/oldmerges/
<barry> wheels ftw!
<mvo> barry: :)
<doko> mvo is the new ev
<mvo> slangasek: aha! thanks, I will check that out and attack some
<mvo> doko: *cough* I hope that is something positive
<slangasek> barry: hurray! death to python2 and all it stands for!
<slangasek> (or something?)
<slangasek> stgraber is also at the cloud sprint
<slangasek> so, cjwatson
<xnox> doko: not quite, it's still under 200 lines.... unless mvo is only getting started =)
<barry> \o/
<xnox> barry: slangasek: well baring autopilot managing to pass through ci-train and 3 more clicks to land.
<cjwatson> livefs in LP:
<cjwatson>  - Continuing work on the browser code.  This is almost entirely done now although not yet pushed anywhere; I still need to finish writing test code.
<cjwatson>  - Set up a local buildd slave so that I could do a straight-through test.  This was (eventually) successful, but in the process I discovered a small but important bug in the launchpad-buildd code, so we'll need to roll out a fix for that.
<cjwatson>  - Worked through William's initial review of https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/livefs/+merge/217261.
<cjwatson>  - To do: finish browser tests, reviews/QA/deployment, cdimage changes.
<cjwatson> Reviewed and extended Dimitri's fix for bug 1275162 and uploaded to unstable for syncing to Ubuntu.  Uploaded trusty SRU candidate (also with fixes for bug 1314134).
<ubottu> bug 1275162 in grub2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "incorrect efibootmgr command is set by update-grub under OVMF" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1275162
<cjwatson> Reviewed Michael's click branches.
<ubottu> bug 1314134 in grub2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "network stack never yields control on busy networks" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1314134
<cjwatson> Tested germinate SRUs.
<cjwatson> gnuradio 3.7.3 transition.
<slangasek> xnox: is bfiller the right person to help us make sure the clicks land?
<cjwatson> Helped out with address-book-app -proposed blockage.
<cjwatson> Signed up for DebConf.  Whee.
<cjwatson> ..
<bdmurray> check in with thedac regarding OOPS cf deletion process
<bdmurray> daisy: don't write to OOPS CF if there is no StacktraceAddressSignature
<bdmurray> daisy: update EoL releases to include Natty and Oneiric (someone submitted crashes for them)
<bdmurray> daisy: don't accept crashes without an ExecutablePath
<bdmurray> reported RT 70111 regarding read / write access to cassandra after testing
<bdmurray> submitted RT to update daisy to r436
<bdmurray> submitted rt to have daisy updated and subsequently retry retracing failures to retrace
<bdmurray> ubuntu-emulator testing of apport and whoopsie
<bdmurray> reported ubuntu-emulator-runtime bug 1316302 and MAC addresses
<bdmurray> reported daisy bug 1316337 regarding adding useless data to the OOPS cf
<bdmurray> reported daisy bug 1316763 re: bucketing of recoverable problems
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 1316344 regarding webbrowser app crash report truncation
<ubottu> bug 1316302 in goget-ubuntu-touch (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-emulator-runtime uses the same MAC address" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316302
<ubottu> bug 1316337 in Daisy "daisy adds crashes to OOPS column family that have no StacktraceAddressSignature" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316337
<ubottu> bug 1316763 in Daisy "bucketing of recoverable problems is done poorly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316763
<ubottu> bug 1316344 in apport (Ubuntu) "webbrowser crash files destroyed somehow" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316344
<xnox> slangasek: and/or with poppey/serguisens. Potentially we can do direct to store upload to fix up the manifest key, if we end up blocked on that.
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 1316841 regarding no duplicate signatures for apportcheckresume crashes
<ubottu> bug 1316841 in apport (Ubuntu) "apportcheckresume does not create a duplicate signature" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316841
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 1316845 regarding package version for apportcheckresume
<ubottu> bug 1316845 in apport (Ubuntu) "apportcheckresume does not contain package version" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316845
<bdmurray> investigation into kubuntu-driver-manager increase in crash rate (overrode it)
<bdmurray> investigation into phased updater issue with qtiplot
<bdmurray> overrode some (update-manager, software-properties) phased updates
<bdmurray> bug bot modifications to check for more iso identities
<bdmurray> uploaded Trusty fixes for bugs 1304143, 1306412
<bdmurray> provisional MRE research for Tech Board
<slangasek> xnox: please don't bypass the process unnecessarily :)
<ubottu> bug 1306412 in patch (Ubuntu Trusty) "patch -pq throws segfault" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306412
<ubottu> bug 1304143 in gdebi (Ubuntu Trusty) "ImportError: cannot import name 'ki18n' when launching gdebi-kde" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304143
<bdmurray> â done
<xnox> gnutls26->28:
<xnox>  - merged 26, synced 28, thus gnutls-bin is now provided by gnutls28.
<xnox>  - will be filing bugs in debian to get packages migrated over
<xnox> Systemd:
<xnox>  * Upload plymouth with initial systemd support. Fixed up obsolete
<xnox>    module (rtc) left over in /etc/modules. bug #1317077
<xnox> SRU bugs fixed in utopic:
<ubottu> bug 1317077 in kmod (Ubuntu) "systemd-modules-load.service fails: /etc/modules contains nonexisting module "rtc"" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1317077
<xnox>  - bug #1273462, bug #1315755, bug #1123460, bug #1249732,
<cjwatson> gnutls> yay
<xnox>    bug #1315464, bug #1300464, bug #1275162 (when syncs from
<ubottu> bug 1273462 in upstart (Ubuntu Trusty) "Users can mistakenly run init.d scripts and cause problems if an equivalent upstart job already exists" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273462
<xnox>    debian)bzr diff
<ubottu> bug 1315755 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu Trusty) "/init: line 327: egrep: not found" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1315755
<xnox> upstart:
<ubottu> bug 1123460 in bzr (Ubuntu Trusty) "verify-signature crashes on non ascii characters" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1123460
<xnox>  - working with jodh to get async branch into shape for merging.
<ubottu> bug 1249732 in bzr (Ubuntu Trusty) "bzr verify-signature fails when acceptable_keys is defined" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1249732
<xnox> python2 off touch:
<ubottu> bug 1315464 in dbus (Ubuntu Trusty) "Cannot login if ~/.cache is dead symlink" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1315464
<ubottu> bug 1300464 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu Trusty) "[UIFe] Ubuntu GNOME Trusty Slides Update" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300464
<xnox>  - progressing with fix-ups to drop python2 off the touch images.
<ubottu> bug 1275162 in grub2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "incorrect efibootmgr command is set by update-grub under OVMF" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1275162
<xnox> ..
<xnox> cjwatson: seems pretty much everyone was eager to get that in debian as well. thus the upload restricting to add gpl v2+ compat turned around quickly.
<cjwatson> People aren't so keen on old crypto code right now
<mvo> heh
<doko> - two days off
<doko> - sent GCC 4.9 ftbfs issues
<doko> - updating gcc-4.8 before the 4.8.3 release candidate
<doko> - fix more python3.4 autopkg tests
<doko> - got involved into the ensurepip wheel packaging
<doko> - start looking at the proposal for the openjdk-8 packaging.
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> and no caribou today, it seems?
<mvo> french holiday I think
<slangasek> ah yes
<mvo> (or on strike)
<slangasek> aren't those the same thing? :)
<mvo> lol
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DebConf planning
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: DebConf planning
<slangasek> if I've already approved you to attend DebConf, please register for the conference (as a professional attendee): http://debconf14.debconf.org/registration.xhtml
<slangasek> don't register yourself for food/accommodation, which we should handle centrally
<slangasek> and if you're not sure if you're approved to attend, come talk to me :)
<slangasek> I'll get an event code into the system ASAP so you can start submitting your travel requests too
<doko> does this mean we won't have lunch together with the other participants?
<cjwatson> err
<slangasek> however, we still need to settle which dates everyone will be in attendance
<cjwatson> I already registered myself for food/accommodation
<cjwatson> I think I missed that memo
<slangasek> cjwatson: yes, the memo is late, you get an exception ;P
<cjwatson> should I try to unwind my registration?
<slangasek> doko: no, it means that you should not register yourself for lunch because that makes it more difficult for the company to pay
<slangasek> cjwatson: don't worry about it until I have a chance to talk to Michelle
<cjwatson> ok
<barry> slangasek: and that always goes so smoothly with our usa travel agent :)
<slangasek> so we'll hopefully have the DebConf schedule fleshed out more in the next week or so, at which point we'll talk about which dates it makes most sense for people to attend ... assuming not everyone is going to attend for all 10 days
<xnox> also ESTA approvals
<slangasek> barry: in this case, PSU asks for payment at time of registration for the room, so that makes it easier for msm to just pay it :)
<barry> slangasek: \o/
<slangasek> any other questions?
<barry> ah, you can't fill out the travel auth until there's an event code
<slangasek> right
<cjwatson> FWIW PSU only asked me for time-of-registration payment for food
<cjwatson> that is, the bill consisted entirely of 4x 10x breakfast+lunch
<slangasek> oh, interesting
<cjwatson> whether that's an error on their part I don't know
<slangasek> well, something else for me to bother them about :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else to discuss?
<slangasek> everybody getting ready for Malta?
 * mvo nods
<slangasek> does anyone here happen to know how to accept ubuntu-core-dev's invitation to https://launchpad.net/~phablet-team ?
<slangasek> the team has no admins; I asked bdmurray whether the DMB got an email about it and he said no
<xnox> slangasek: i think you need an admin, in the owners team?
<xnox> slangasek: https://launchpad.net/~pspmteam/+members ?
<popey> slangasek: i just tried to manually add but it failed, because its already been invited
<slangasek> xnox: the invite has been sent by the admin of phablet-team, but someone has to accept it on behalf of ubuntu-core-dev
<slangasek> and I don't know who that "someone" can be
<xnox> slangasek: oh.
<slangasek> maybe an option shows up in the UI for the members of the DMB?  barry, bdmurray?
<bdmurray> what is the structure of the url invite?
 * barry is no longer dmb
<slangasek> oh
 * xnox is
<slangasek> right
<xnox> oh, since i'm a member of phablet-team already, i can't add one of my teams to it?!
<slangasek> xnox, popey, bdmurray: shall we adjourn and try to figure this out on #ubuntu-devel then?
<slangasek> (anything else from anyone?)
<doko> yep
<bdmurray> https://launchpad.net/~phablet-team/+member/ubuntu-core-dev maybe that
<xnox> no allowed here
<doko> trying to prepare for GCC 4.9, planning to make it the default in Malta
<popey> "Ubuntu Core Development Team (ubuntu-core-dev) has been invited to join this team, but hasn't responded to the invitation yet."
<slangasek> I think you should make it the default everywhere, not just in Malta
<popey> (when I click that link)
<bdmurray> ah, I got it
<bdmurray> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+invitation/phablet-team
<doko> there are a number of issues now filed for Debian; I don't want to repeat the bug filing here in Ubuntu
<doko> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=ftbfs-gcc-4.9;users=debian-gcc@lists.debian.org
<slangasek> doko: 94 is still a lot. is anyone driving down the bug list in Debian?  Will gcc-4.9 be made the default in Debian soon?
<doko> can we do a 5 a week bug squash until Malta?
<doko> slangasek, see the email to -release, and the refusal on the qt related ones to work on anything else before 4.9 is the default
<slangasek> doko: link to the -release mail?
<slangasek> these are certainly NMU candidates in Debian; perhaps you'd like to announce a "bugsquashing party" in Debian and drive them down there, before making the switch of default in either Debian or Ubuntu
<slangasek> we certainly want to make sure the Qt packages are fixed in Ubuntu before we make the switch, so that we're not hampering the touch work
<doko> yes, announcement will follow for ubuntu
<xnox> bdmurray: accepted.
<xnox> slangasek: ^
<slangasek> xnox: yay!
<bdmurray> well, now I could have clicked the button I was trying to say look I found it
<xnox> slangasek: i hope this does not translate into spamming core-devs.... =)
<slangasek> doko: anyway, I think it's best to coordinate this with Debian, and where possible to do the fixes there directly via bugsquash NMU
<slangasek> xnox: I'm pretty sure ubuntu-core-dev mail is already bitbucketed :)
<cjwatson> ubuntu-core-dev has an e-mail address yet
<cjwatson> *set
<xnox> slangasek: archived neatly in /dev/null ?! =)))))
<slangasek> billgates@bugone.com
<cjwatson> So it should at worst only spam  ubuntu-core-reviews@lists.ubuntu.com
<xnox> anyway... gcc-4.9 transition bug fixing needed. ok.
<slangasek> alright, sounds like that's everything then
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May  8 15:41:29 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-08-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<barry> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
<jodh> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-11
* buvan changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: topic
<buvan> TOPIC ubuntu
* buvan changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ubuntu
* buvan changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ubuntu-meeting
* benonsoftware changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: buntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
* benonsoftware changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<benonsoftware> That's better :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-04
 * self-confidence1 and there is no tooth fairy
 * self-confidence1 ahahahahahahh !!!!!!!!!
 * self-confidence1 let's dance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcoqJCJlHbQ
 * self-confidence1 `\o/` `\./` `\o/` `\./' `\0/`
 * self-confidence1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwIe_sjKeAY
 * self-confidence1 okay, one more and I am done here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JQiEs32SqQ
 * self-confidence0 rule nr1. - DON'T TALK about fight club, how tough does it sound?
<Riddell> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<Riddell> hmm, that list could do with a few updates
<benonsoftware> Well anyone with an Ubuntu cloak has op in here.
<Seveas> Riddell: it could indeed :)
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> \o
<jjohansen> o/
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May  4 16:38:56 2015 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Andreas Cadhalpun (andreas-cadhalpun) provided a debdiff for vivid for ffmpeg (LP: #1436296)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1436296 in ffmpeg (Ubuntu) "FFmpeg security fixes March 2015" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436296
<jdstrand> Unit 193 (unit193) provided a debdiff for trusty and utopic for icecast2 (LP: #1449771)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1449771 in icecast2 (Ubuntu Vivid) "Multiple CVEs in 2.3.3-2ubuntu1 found in trusty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1449771
<jdstrand> Felix Geyer (debfx) provided debdiffs for trusty-vivid for pdns (LP: #1450037)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1450037 in pdns (Ubuntu Vivid) "CVE-2015-1868" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1450037
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I plan to attend UOS, particularly for the core and convergence tracks
<jdstrand> then I'm working on the seccomp SRU
<jdstrand> (which is in progress)
<jdstrand> I've also got an ubuntu-core-security SRU I am preparing
<jdstrand> and then need to implement something for seccomp policy regeneration on policy updates for ubuntu core
<jdstrand> and review tools updates for snaps
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I have a short week as I'm off on thursday
<mdeslaur> I'm working on updates, and have a bunch more that are in various stages of testing
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie...
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week.
<sbeattie> I'll be keeping an eye on UOS as well
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<sbeattie> I need to harangue mdeslaur or jdstrand to sponsor my rsyslog and apparmor SRUs for trusty.
<sbeattie> I also have a pending apparmor upload for wily when it opens
<sbeattie> And I need to get on with gcc-pie testing.
<sbeattie> That's pretty much my week. tyhicks is out, so jjohansen?
<jjohansen> I have next cycle of kernel sign-offs to do this week
<jdstrand> sbeattie: are the bugs all ready and you are satisfied with apparmor and rsyslog? I'd be happy to do the pocket copy for you
<jjohansen> For apparmor I am still cleaning up the domain transition bits and hunting bugs, improving, extending or writing new regression tests around that
<jdstrand> sbeattie: is the apparmor upload a merge of what went to Debian?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: infinity will probably do the pocket copy
<jjohansen> jdstrand: oops sorry, ignore that
<jdstrand> sorry, I'm asking sbeattie questions during your report
<jdstrand> I was slow to ask
 * jjohansen missed the sbeattie bit and thought that was a kernel question
 * sbeattie waits for jjohansen to finish
<jjohansen> heh, well if I had read who you were poking
<jjohansen> ...
<jjohansen> sbeattie: go
<sbeattie> jdstrand: I do need to finish up the paperwork on the SRU bugs.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: just ping me when you want me to copy to trusty-proposed
<sbeattie> jdstrand: and I haven't looked at the debian upload, I'll do that as well.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: what is left on the gcc pie work?
<jdstrand> sbeattie: are you ready for me to stop firing questions at you?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: I need to do a few more test rebuilds
<sbeattie> jdstrand: heh. :)
<jdstrand> sbeattie: ah good, so then after that, you can hand to doko?
<jdstrand> sbeattie: or is there more?
<sbeattie> ah, sorry, one of us needs to do some benchmarking as well.
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> seems this week your plate is full for benchmarking. we can circle back around to that when tyler is back
<sbeattie> okay
 * jdstrand is done firing questions at sbeattie
<jdstrand> sbeattie: thanks :)
<jdstrand> jjohansen: ok, feel free to proceed. that said, I have a question for you already
<jjohansen> jdstrand: fire
<jdstrand> is the 'cleaning up the domain transition bits' part of the upstreaming work?
<jjohansen> I think so
<jdstrand> ok, good. we'll (and this is for all of the team, not just you/the upstreaming work) need to come up with a plan after tyler gets back for what to focus on
<jdstrand> for the cycle
<jjohansen> ack
<jdstrand> obviously, the upstreaming work is important-- I'd just like to map everything all out
<jdstrand> pull people in, etc
<jdstrand> anyhoo-- that isn't a question-- just me commenting
<jdstrand> jjohansen: please proceed :)
<jjohansen> well thats it for me :), sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm on CVE triage this week; I'll also be checking in on UOS; I'll also be working on testing openstack updates
<jdstrand> sarnold: how are the openstack updates going? I saw the question to beisner. are you unblocked?
<sarnold> jdstrand: no, his answer is helpful but it doesn't really provide an immediate "do this" kind of answer; the mysql charm bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+source/mysql/+bug/1423153 and I didn't see any discussion how to retrieve the password via the juju relations, and I don't know why a five or six week old fix isn't working..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1423153 in percona-cluster (Juju Charms Collection) "/var/lib/mysql/mysql.passwd no longer exist" [High,Fix released]
<jdstrand> sarnold: ok, can you follow up with them on irc outside of the meeting?
<sarnold> jdstrand: I've asked for information on the bug to find out what the right answer is for finding the password.. if they report back that the answer is to use the relatin-get mechanism, then I think I'm going to file a ahndful of bugs on documentations and go annoy jcastro's stackoverflow answers..
<jdstrand> and let me know how I can help unblock you
<sarnold> jdstrand: thanks
<sarnold>  I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson ?
<jdstrand> that all sounds fine, but let's also make sure we are moving forward
<chrisccoulson> so, it's a short week for me this week. I shall be hoping that I don't have to deal with any more issues on arale, so I can get planned work done :)
<jdstrand> (which, you are doing the right thing, just want to make sure we don't stall out on email/bug reports/etc)
<chrisccoulson> I'm going to be working through code reviews (doing the camera branch right now)
<chrisccoulson> and I want to get https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/oxide/media-permissions in to a state where it can land too
<jdstrand> those kinda go hand in hand, right?
<chrisccoulson> Sort of - camera works on the desktop already (with the permissions branch)
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> is arale looking ok now?
<chrisccoulson> It is. Nobody has pinged me today anyway :)
<jdstrand> well, that's a start :)
<jdstrand> are there any browser/oxide UOS meetings?
<jdstrand> s/meetings/sessions/
<chrisccoulson> I also got Firefox 38 building on precise last week with the updated compiler (see gcc-mozilla and hardening-wrapper in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ubuntu/ppa and firefox in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ubuntu/ppa).
<chrisccoulson> That seems to be working ok :)
<chrisccoulson> UOS - I'm not sure about that. I haven't checked the schedule
<chrisccoulson> I've not scheduled anything
<chrisccoulson> Firefox 38 is next week btw
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<jdstrand> if you could keep an eye out for meetings wrt that, that would be great. if you need one of us to attend in your absence, let us know
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: ^
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/k4dirstat.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/qpid-python.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/novnc.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-arm-none-eabi.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python-restkit.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May  4 17:09:50 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-04-16.38.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-05
<gnuoy> I see no kickinz1
<arosales> o/
<gnuoy> ok, I'll grab this one
<gnuoy> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May  5 16:02:45 2015 UTC.  The chair is gnuoy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<gnuoy> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<gnuoy> I'm not seeing much in the way of minutes from the last few weeks https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server
<gnuoy> Am I missing something there?
<gnuoy> Is it just me an arosales or are other people lurking?
<jamespage> o/
 * arosales is sudo here
<arosales> :-)
<gnuoy> ok, well lets move on since I see no minutes to review actions from
<gnuoy> #topic W Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: W Development
<smoser> o/
<gnuoy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<gnuoy> hmm, that's not a thing
<gnuoy> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<gnuoy> that is a thing
<gnuoy> Bug #1450642 is fix released in wily
<ubottu> bug 1450642 in libseccomp (Ubuntu Vivid) "seccomp missing many new syscalls" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1450642
<coreycb> o/
<gnuoy> #subtopic Blueprints
<gnuoy> Those who track work with blueprint should prepare their wily ones
<gnuoy> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-w-server is not a thing either
<gnuoy> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> gnuoy: nothing special here, thanks !
<gnuoy> caribou, np
<gnuoy> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<gnuoy> I don't see matsubara
<gnuoy> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<gnuoy> any thing for/from the kernel team?
<gnuoy> gaughen, are you about atm?
<gaughen> gnuoy, yes
<gnuoy> hi!
<gaughen> Hey Liam
<gaughen> I mean gnuoy
<gaughen> what's up?
<gnuoy> gaughen, who would look after creating the 'w' specific pages for this meeting?
<gnuoy> The ones on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting/IRCCommands
<gnuoy> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<gnuoy> Please feel free to discuss openly...
<smoser> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/
<smoser> Ubuntu Online Summit is goin on right now.
<smoser> that link above is the link to the scehdule.
<smoser> please watch, participate, have fun
<gnuoy> thanks smoser
<gnuoy> ok, I think we're done
<gnuoy> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<gnuoy> 12th May same time, kickinz1 to chair
<gnuoy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May  5 16:17:48 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-05-16.02.moin.txt
<gaughen> gnuoy, depends on the page. the release schedule would be infinity
<gnuoy> gaughen, what about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-w-server and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<gnuoy> ?
<gaughen> gnuoy, whomever the manager of the server team is would create it, so me for now
<gnuoy> thanks gaughen, much appreciated
<gaughen> and the ReleaseSchedule one is infinity
<gnuoy> kk
<arosales> gnuoy, thanks for chairing
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-07
<pleia2> o/ just getting ready for the CC meeting
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May  7 17:03:08 2015 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pleia2> #chair elfy mhall119
<meetingology> Current chairs: elfy mhall119 pleia2
<elfy> hi
<pleia2> so we don't have any catchups scheduled for today, picking those up again on May 21st https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<pleia2> hope to chat with Forums Council & Core Apps/Phone folks then
<pleia2> #chair czajkowski
<meetingology> Current chairs: czajkowski elfy mhall119 pleia2
<pleia2> in case anyone missed it, we just had an Ubuntu Online Summit Hangout, video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KonbSx2s4x8
<elfy> forum's will be here for sure :p
<pleia2> :)
<elfy> it'll be good to see what the Phone folks have to say :)
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> czajkowski is on a work call, mhall119 you around and/or have anything to contribute to meeting?
<pleia2> otherwise we can probably wrap this up, I think we caught up in our summit session :)
<elfy> pleia2: mhall119 is afk I believe
<pleia2> ah
<pleia2> well then :)
<pleia2> thanks elfy!
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May  7 17:09:11 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-07-17.03.moin.txt
<elfy> I'm about off and on anyway if anyone needs a ping
<pleia2> enjoy
<mhall119> sorry pleia2, thought it wsn't happening
<pleia2> yeah, I got my wires crossed :)
<belkinsa> Is olive here>
<belkinsa> #startmeeting 22 UTC Membership Board Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May  7 21:59:48 2015 UTC.  The chair is belkinsa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 22 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<belkinsa> Who is all hear for the meeting?
<gsilva> I am
<wxl> o/
<toddy> o/
<gsilva> And good evening to you all
<elacheche_anis> O/
<gsilva> o/
<elfy> evening all :)
<Kilos> o/
<belkinsa> Okay, we are set.
<Kilos> hi elfy
<belkinsa> Hello and welcome to the Membership Board meeting!  The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards.  We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off. The format for the meeting is as foll
<belkinsa> ows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO). Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions. During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applica
<toddy> Good evening, gsilva
<wxl> wow it's a regular party in here :)
<belkinsa> nt. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<rafaellaguna> o/
<belkinsa> #topic gsilva
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 22 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: gsilva
<belkinsa> gsilva, please introduce yourself and give links to your LP profile and wiki page.
<gsilva> Okay then
<belkinsa> #voters hggdh wxl toddy belkinsa elacheche_anis popey
<meetingology> Current voters: belkinsa elacheche_anis hggdh popey toddy wxl
<belkinsa> #voters PabloRubianes marcoceppi
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes belkinsa elacheche_anis hggdh marcoceppi popey toddy wxl
<wxl> there's elfy too belkinsa
<Kilos> and me
<ahoneybun> o/
<elfy> wxl: not in membership board
<belkinsa> #voters ahoneybun Kilos
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos PabloRubianes ahoneybun belkinsa elacheche_anis hggdh marcoceppi popey toddy wxl
<ahoneybun> yay
<belkinsa> elfy, lives here.
<elfy> just hanging about :)
<toddy> :D
<wxl> :)
<hggdh> gsilva: please go ahead
<Kilos> :D
<belkinsa> #voters jcastro
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos PabloRubianes ahoneybun belkinsa elacheche_anis hggdh jcastro marcoceppi popey toddy wxl
<elfy> wxl: we just 'can' vote if quorum needs it
<belkinsa> We are good now
 * wxl nods at elfy 
<gsilva> My name is Gustavo Silva, I am 22 years old and I am Portuguese. I am finishing a master's degree in Industrial and Firm's Economics, hence my background is based on Management and Economics. I started using Ubuntu a very long time ago (not even sure what the version was but it was with Gnome back then) and started using it again last year because I felt it offered me enough alternatives for my daily life, even though
<gsilva> I am unemployed. Recently, I was criticizing a lot of bits here and there about the Wiki of Lubuntu and then things progressed from there
<gsilva> From small changes and contributions, to huge plans and ideas. The guys at Lubuntu thought I'd be a great adition to the team so I am leading the Wiki & Docs team.
<gsilva> And you also want these: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/gsilva https://launchpad.net/~gsilva
<gsilva> oops
<gsilva> this one instead: https://launchpad.net/~gustavosantaremsilva
<hggdh> heh. Usually, this is how we start -- we get an itch on Something We Do Not Like(TM), and get involved
<gsilva> Well, I found a lot more about Linux in general after that. Of course I was too naive, but I guess that's part of contributing to such community :)
<wxl> is this a good time to interject comments about the candidate? being the release manager for lubuntu, i have a lot of experience working directly with gsilva
<belkinsa> Does anyone have questions?  Or any comments?
<hggdh> gsilva: out of curiosity -- do you participate in the PT community?
<wxl> belkinsa: okie dokie :)
<gsilva> hggdh, unfortunately no. I tried reaching them many teams and it seems they are inactive for now, even though they organize some conferences here and there. They usually organize them in Lisbon, which is 300 kms away from home, which is also unfortunate
<slickymaster> the PT community has a very meager existence hggdh
<gsilva> If I'd have to judge from their official website, I'd say they are inactive at the moment - honestly. But I don't want to say it because it may not be true
<gsilva> I emailed one of the guys recently and got no answer until today
<slickymaster> close to true gsilva
<wxl> keep trying gsilva. worse comes to worst, take over. :)
<ahoneybun> gsilva: have you thought of drawing up some blueprints of the future of the Lubuntu Wiki?
<wxl> sounds like slickymaster may have some insight on that matter if need be
<hggdh> gsilva: OK. It is just because I have always looked at them, perhaps as a way to keep tabs... part of having ties, I guess
<gsilva> Damn, too many comments :D
<PabloRubianes> Maybe the loco council could help with that
<wxl> i think if they're unreachable, they're unreachable, PabloRubianes, but if someone is anxious to start something where things are otherwise active, i'm sure they could help
<gsilva> wxl, yes, I am thinking of that after I put all of my plans in practice in regards to Lubuntu. When things start rolling by themselves, then I can help out the LoCo team, which is something I wish to do. I have some secondary plans in mind to do that. Long story short, Ricardo Lafuente organizes Open-focused conferences: It is an opportunity to introduce open source technologies
<hggdh> gsilva: and what else you plan to do on Ubuntu?
 * hggdh considers the question answered :-)
<belkinsa> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<gsilva> ahoneybun, well, there are two major things in regard to Lubuntu (within my team, ofc): First, prepare a different structure and launch a manual. The manual is undergoing and I need help for the structure
<gsilva> Otherwise, that will take more time.
<wxl> ahoneybun: he actually does have some blueprints, too
<gsilva> But yes, I try to keep some flow of blueprints to the team page, just in case someone joins the team and needs guidance
<wxl> ahoneybun: they're assigned to the team, though, and not him directly from what i remember
<ahoneybun> thats why I did not see them on his LP
<wxl> yeppers
<wxl> i've tried to keep things that way among lubuntu team members to allow others to fill in for people if need be
<gsilva> hggdh, well, the main thing is the organization of regular open-source dedicated online conferences. I talked with belkinsa yesterday, at our community session. Let me search for the link
<wxl> because we have a darn small team
<gsilva> hggdh: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/meeting/22484/community-1505-planning-session/
<gsilva> Yes, all blueprints are assigned to the team so that anyone can see them if they ever need to
<gsilva> Besides, it is a team effort :)
<hggdh> when the team is small enough, this works OK.
<hggdh> cool
<gsilva> I'm also planning to work on a communication plan to the Lubuntu team, which may be scaled up to Ubuntu and/or other flavours
<belkinsa> Any more questions/comments?
<hggdh> none from me
<PabloRubianes> No. Ready to vote
<Kilos> nope
<toddy> no, I'm ready to vote
<belkinsa> Okay
<gsilva> My plans, even though focused on Lubuntu, are easily scoped to other flavors as well. In fact, I'd really appreciate if all distributions could merge efforts in some of them :)
<wxl> ready
<gsilva> Oh, apologies
<wxl> no problem, gsilva
<hggdh> gsilva: no need to apologise
<belkinsa> But first do we have anyone hear to cheer him on?  Or has the board got what they wanted from the questions?
<wxl> well i can cheer very loudly, but it sounds like we're good to go?
<hggdh> I know wxl is cheering for him already.
<belkinsa> rafaellaguna?
<belkinsa> Alrighty then, it's voting time!
<rafaellaguna> I have no questions, because I know how useful was gsilva for the team
<belkinsa> #startvote For gsilva's Membership?
 * wxl kicks the bot
<belkinsa> #startvote For gsilva's Membership?
<wxl> can't parse ? perhaps?
<belkinsa> #vote For gsilva's Membership?
<meetingology> Please vote on: For gsilva's Membership?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<gsilva> The bot doesn't want to vote for me
<wxl> ah
<Kilos> lol
<gsilva> tadaaa :)
<wxl> +1 (well, +â would be more accurate)
<meetingology> +1 (well, +â would be more accurate) received from wxl
<hggdh> +1 Obrigado por teu trabalho. Nos, por cÃ¡, apreciamos.
<meetingology> +1 Obrigado por teu trabalho. Nos, por cÃ¡, apreciamos. received from hggdh
<toddy> +1 Keep up the good work and raise the PL Community/LoCo back to life
<meetingology> +1 Keep up the good work and raise the PL Community/LoCo back to life received from toddy
<Kilos> +1 Keep up the good work
<meetingology> +1 Keep up the good work received from Kilos
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<ahoneybun> +1 (looking forward to working with you)
<meetingology> +1 (looking forward to working with you) received from ahoneybun
<belkinsa> +1 Keep up the good work
<meetingology> +1 Keep up the good work received from belkinsa
<elacheche_anis> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elacheche_anis
<belkinsa> Any else?
<belkinsa> Okay
<hggdh> guess we are good
<belkinsa> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: For gsilva's Membership?
<meetingology> Votes for:8 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<elfy> awesome gsilva - welcome :)
<gsilva> thank you, hggdh and ahoneybun :) I will try my best to get the LoCo back together
<PabloRubianes> Congrats!
<slickymaster> parabÃ©ns gustavo, bem vindo Ã  famÃ­lia Ubuntu
<belkinsa> COntrags!
<ahoneybun> yay!
<hggdh> gsilva: bem vindo :-)
<gsilva> thank you all for the support :D
<toddy> Congrats
<wxl> congrats gsilva !!!
<cwayne> hey congrats!  Sorry I'm late (I was going to be +1 anyway)
<slickymaster> se precisares de ajuda com alguma coisa apita
<rafaellaguna> parabens!!! \o/
<Kilos> well done gsilva  keep it up
<slickymaster> gsilva:^
<elacheche_anis> congrats gsilva :)
<wxl> np cwayne
<belkinsa> Please refer to this page for more info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership#Benefits_of_Membership
<gsilva> And everybody knows how to speak Portuguese all the suddon? :D
<wxl> gsilva: google translate :)
<slickymaster> hggdh, prazer em 'ver-te'
<gsilva> slickymaster, thank you :D
<hggdh> well, we are all over the world :-)
<wxl> hehehe
<gsilva> wxl, some of this is actually well spelled, hence my question - stuff that google translation fails a lot :D
<hggdh> slickymaster: o prazer Ã© meu, creia :-)
<belkinsa> #topic olive
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 22 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: olive
<belkinsa> Is olive here?
<belkinsa> Okay, if not, he will have to wait for the 22 UTC meeting
<wxl> you mean 12 utc belkinsa ?
<belkinsa> Thanks for everyone for coming!
<elacheche_anis> the next 22 UTC meeting maybe :D
<belkinsa> No, he signed up only for 22 UTC
<gsilva> 11, more precisely :P
<wxl> oh
<belkinsa> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May  7 22:21:49 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-07-21.59.moin.txt
<slickymaster> so gsilva, you're from Lisbon?
<elacheche_anis> congrats again gsilva :D
<hggdh> gsilva: para registro, falo Portugues
<elfy> thanks everyone - lovely to see people turning up for these :)
<gsilva> no, I am from Porto, slickymaster
<slickymaster> do Porto?
<elfy> ahah
<gsilva> thank you, elacheche_anis :)
<gsilva> sim, do Porto
<slickymaster> I'm also from Porto gsilva ;)
<hggdh> LOL
<gsilva> really? That's interesting! Do you belong to the LoCo? Or not really=
<gsilva> *?
<wxl> slickymaster: gsilva: sounds like you guys need to hang out on #ubuntu-pt :)
<gsilva> Where were you like, 3 months ago?
<elfy> wxl: or in that bar they both know - but never see each other in ...
<gsilva> indeed :) Maybe we can start something for our region as well !:)
 * ahoneybun is flying to Lisbon soon
<slickymaster> being kept busy in -the Xubuntu team
<wxl> hahahah elfy
<elfy> wxl: we're not faces in general ;)
<gsilva> I'm also busy with Lubuntu team :) We can prepare something in the future, for sure :)
<rafaellaguna> nice session. see you guys! congrats again, gsilva
<slickymaster> yeaps gsilva
<wxl> elfy: yeah i was excited to see your face in the session earlier :)
<elfy> oh dear  - I feel sad for you :p
<hggdh> gsilva, slickymaster: look for FernandoMiguel, he is from o Porto as well (and lived there)
<slickymaster> he's he still active in the community hggdh?
<wxl> hahahha elfy it's nice to put a face to the name regardless of what the face looks like ;)
<slickymaster> is there any way to reach him?
<hggdh> slickymaster: was. And Tiago Carrondo
<slickymaster> Tiago I know
<elfy> wxl: for sure
<slickymaster> and do kepp in touch, from time to time
<slickymaster> * keep
<wxl> ok i'm out guys
<elfy> gsilva: and while I might not know Porto - I know Galicia a bit
<wxl> thanks again for all that showed up
<wxl> glad gsilva made a friend in porto!
<wxl> and super happy he's one of the elite few now XD
<slickymaster> gsilva, if you need to contact me, you'll find my contacts here -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slickymaster
<gsilva> It is a bit different :P
<hggdh> slickymaster: ele costumava estar no #ubuntu+1; sei que ele renovou o membership por agora, logo ainda estÃ¡ por cÃ¡
<gsilva> Thank you, I'll keep those and I will get in touch with you soon. I'll not promise a date because I am not sure when I'll have more time, but we'll see :)
<slickymaster> vou tentar apanhÃ¡-lo hggdh
<slickymaster> obrigado pela dica hggdh
<slickymaster> gsilva, whenever you'll be able
<hggdh> slickymaster: pois, renovou dois dias atrÃ¡s
<elfy> hggdh: maybe sort out a membership board ping factoid to call the team?
<hggdh> elfy: not a bad idea at all
<elfy> got to be easier than remembering names - then adding ones
<hggdh> yes :-)
<elfy> the board's pretty stable now afaik
 * elfy checks
<hggdh> I have no edit rights
<slickymaster> in the wiki hggdh?
<elfy> hggdh: I just made the assumption you could being ircc - sorry
<hggdh> elfy: heh.
<elfy> hggdh: yep - board is stable till July 2016
<hggdh> slickymaster: https://launchpad.net/~fernandomiguel
<elfy> and I have NO idea how to tell ubottu anything at all - other than be quiet :p
<slickymaster> great hggdh, no I can contact him
<hggdh> elfy: yes. Then I think it will be time for me to leave
<slickymaster> s/no/now
<hggdh> slickymaster: my pleasure
 * slickymaster bows towards hggdh 
 * hggdh returns the honour
<slickymaster> lol
<elfy> hggdh: so - you going to do that - or do I have to try?
<elfy> cos I've got a bone in my leg atm
<elfy> !mb-ping  #ubuntu-meeting <reply>ahoneybun popey hggdh cwayne elacheche IdleOne iulian jcastro marcoceppi Kilos PabloRubianes rickspencer3 s-fox belkinsa toddy wxl:Membership Board
<ubottu> elfy: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ahoneybun> o/
<popey> uh
<elfy> sorry :D
<popey> ubottu: mb-ping #ubuntu-meeting is <reply>ahoneybun popey hggdh cwayne elacheche IdleOne iulian jcastro marcoceppi Kilos PabloRubianes rickspencer3 s-fox belkinsa toddy wxl
<ubottu> I'll remember that, popey
<popey> sorry everyone
<elfy> popey: sorry
<popey> that's done it though, so you should be able to !mb-ping in the future.
<elfy> popey: well that was the intention :)
<popey> :)
<hggdh> popey: thank you, sir
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-05-09
<ahoneybun> wxl is there a LoCo meeting tomorrow
<ahoneybun> ?
<psusi> isn't it time for the developer membership board meeeting?
<Laney> psusi: in 17 minutes
<Laney> date -u is your friend
<psusi> I asked google and it said EST is GMT-5... probably doesn't account for stupid daylight savings time
<BenC> EST is currently GMT-4, if that helps
<psusi> I figured
<psusi> I know it bounces back and forth between -4 and -5, just can never remember when we're on each
<psusi> daylight savings drives me nuts
<BenC> You leave my wandering hour of sleep vs sunlight alone, sir.
<BenC> Good morning/afternoon/evening
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<BenC> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May  9 15:01:23 2016 UTC.  The chair is BenC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<BenC> Iâm going to be a little slow getting started. First time using meetingology
<cyphermox> no worries
<BenC> I see 4 present, including myself.
<BenC> 5
<BenC> Guess thatâs enough to get started
<BenC> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<BenC> infinity: If youâre here...
<BenC> I believe membership changes were done.
<BenC> Can anyone else confirm?
<sil2100> I updated the agenda last week since it was a bit chaotic
<rbasak> I think lamont had some suggestions for us in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-May/000922.html in relation to this?
<rbasak> Sorry, I meant Laney.
<BenC> rbasak: I saw that as well
<cyphermox> I don't think that has been done, but you can add an action for me to fix this
<lamont> whew
<BenC> Iâm guessing no one has done that changes. Anyone want to volunteer to take care of them?
<cyphermox> o/
<rbasak> Thanks cyphermox
<BenC> #action cyphremox Update Mate packages per Iain Laneâs suggestions
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphremox Update Mate packages per Iain Laneâs suggestions
<rbasak> flexiondotorg: FYI ^. AIUI, this won't affect your actual uploadaccess.
<BenC> Basically a house keeping action, right?
<rbasak> I believe so, yes. Paves the way for more MATE uploaders.
<Laney> Well
<Laney> The other half of it was that you should merge my branch and make it an automatically generated set
<rbasak> I think there is a question for flexiondotorg here though.
<Laney> that's how flavour ones normally work
<Laney> but up to you of course
<rbasak> Does he want to seed those packages that Laney mentioned?
<rbasak> Laney: ah, I assumed BenC's action covered your entire email.
<Laney> Maybe so
<BenC> I had assumed that as well
<flexiondotorg> I can answer questions if need be.
<Laney> OK, I think that the second part is housekeeping but the first part not
<Laney> no bother if you want to define it differently :)
 * Laney goes away
<rbasak> flexiondotorg: are you happy to seed the packages Laney mentioned?
<BenC> Thanks, Laney
<BenC> flexiondotorg: Itâs in the devel-permissions email in the above URL
<flexiondotorg> Ummm, do you mean the expanded packages I requested PPU for?
 * flexiondotorg reads...
<flexiondotorg>   caja-actions
<flexiondotorg>   caja-dropbox
<flexiondotorg>   mate-accountsdialog
<flexiondotorg>   mate-common
<flexiondotorg>   mate-user-share
<flexiondotorg> So, The above are not seeded.
<rbasak> I think so, yes. Because then we'll make it an automatically managed packageset instead. So rather than individual PPU, you'd be able to upload MATE-seeded stuff that isn't seeded elsewhere.
<rbasak> (I think)
<flexiondotorg> But are part of the MATE packageset in the Debian pkg-mate team.
<flexiondotorg> I would like to be able to upload fixes for those packages.
<rbasak> The suggestion is that you do seed them.
<cyphermox> flexiondotorg: indeed, they should be in the mate supported seed, probably. we can discuss this after the meeting, but it's very much a jfdi thing
<flexiondotorg> If by seed, you mean, include in the images.
<cyphermox> not really
<flexiondotorg> Then no, I don't want to seed them.
<rbasak> They don't have to be in the images.
<cyphermox> they will be in a seed that doesn't make it into the images :)
<rbasak> You can seed them in a "supported" seed which basically means that you claim support for them but without them being in the images.
<flexiondotorg> OK, then yes :-)
<rbasak> Great, thanks :)
<flexiondotorg> If those packages go in a seed that is not part of the images, that is fine with me.
<BenC> Ok, so I think weâre in agreement that the action stands and the suggestions in Laneyâs email will be performed.
<BenC> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
<BenC> #subtopic Martin Wimpress / Ubuntu MATE Packages
<BenC> I think this is sort of done, right?
<rbasak> I think this is moot now then? I do have another question but I'll take it up with flexiondotorg in #ubuntu-devel.
<BenC> #agreed Martin Wimpress / MATE Packages already handled.
<BenC> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<BenC> #subtopic Phillip Susi https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhillipSusi/DeveloperApplication2
<psusi> o/
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> Hi psusi
<sil2100> Hello
<rbasak> We deferred you last time because you weren't online and we didn't see any endorsements.
<BenC> psusi: Thanks for joingin. Care to give us some background and information youâd like to say?
<psusi> well, I have been using Ubunutu since 6.06 was in development... and now I feel old...
<rbasak> psusi: I see that you're still missing endorsements. Do you need more time?
<BenC> Yeah, noticing that as well.
<psusi> I do a ton of bug triaging, and fix bugs whenever I can, though my time for that has been a bit limited lately due to busy schedule at work and a second kiddo at the end of last year
<psusi> I've been a contributing developer for a few years now and decided it's time to stop pestering others to upload for me
<psusi> not sure about the endorsements... I've been askiing in -devel every now and then for a good 5 months now
<psusi> I'm also the upstream develeoper for GNU parted, and contribute to upstream gparted, and am the debian maintainer for gparted
<BenC> I see you focus mainly on partition/disk/bootloader type packages. Is there any reason not to do per-package upload permissions instead of coredev?
<psusi> my attention sometimes wanders ;)
<psusi> but I suppose that would probably cover most of my work, yes
<rbasak> https://launchpad.net/~psusi/+uploaded-packages says that your last sponsored upload was in 2014?
<psusi> wow... I guess lately I've been getting more of them in thorugh Debian
<psusi> though I have at least one upload that has been waiting for sponsorship for months... a fix go grub to finally use dpkg-triggers for update-grub
<BenC> The grub spam on my screen during some apt operations would agree to that being a good featureâ¦
<rbasak> Is that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1250109?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1250109 in linux (Ubuntu) "Please use dpkg-triggers" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<sil2100> http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=*Susi*&sponsoree_search=name <- it seems there was one more in 2015
<psusi> I try to keep gparted just auto syncing from debian as I'm the dm there so I just upload there and let it auto sync to ubuntu
<psusi> of course, during debian freeze, that can be a bit problematic when I want to update ubuntu for its release schedule
<BenC> Anyone have any other questions or comments for psusi?
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> > that can e a bit problematic
<rbasak> Can you give us a recent example?
<psusi> hrm... I don't recall exactly what it was now, but the last time debian had a freeze ( which has been some time now ), there was a crash bug fix of some sort that I wanted to get into Ubuntu
<psusi> let me check the change log
<psusi> pretty sure I ended up just filing a sync request bug and having someone else sync from debian experimental
<psusi> after uploading it there
<BenC> psusi: Thanks for answering our questions.
<BenC> If thereâs nothing further, Iâll call for a voteâ¦
<BenC> #vote Phillip Susi for Ubuntu Core Dev
<meetingology> Please vote on: Phillip Susi for Ubuntu Core Dev
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<BenC> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from BenC
<rbasak> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from rbasak
<sil2100> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from sil2100
<cyphermox> -1, there are no endorsements, not much in terms of recent uploads; we really ought to gate core-dev on someone actively needing the permissions / wasting reviewers' time with perfect uploads.
<meetingology> -1, there are no endorsements, not much in terms of recent uploads; we really ought to gate core-dev on someone actively needing the permissions / wasting reviewers' time with perfect uploads. received from cyphermox
<bdmurray> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from bdmurray
<rbasak> I don't think it's appropriate to grant upload access without any endorsements from fellow developers.
<BenC> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Phillip Susi for Ubuntu Core Dev
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:3 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion denied
<BenC> psusi: I suggest applying for per-package, and getting some endorsements as well.
<sil2100> I must agree with cyphermox here a bit, even though I see that the uploads you did were fairly good, I didn't also see any more challenging uploads set for sponsoring
<BenC> Thanks for your time and contributions, they are definitely appreciated.
<psusi> guess I need to pester cjwatson some more... he sponsored me for contrib back when I didn't feel comfortable enough to have core
<rbasak> I'd also like to see a demonstrated need for upload access.
<rbasak> Especially for core dev.
<psusi> ppu might work also
<cyphermox> sil2100: it's not just the challenge level, but showing that one can do unsupervised upload to any part of the archive, etc.
<BenC> Ok, moving on
<BenC> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: AOB
<cyphermox> sil2100: so as we discussed last week, "X is wasting reviewers' time by asking for sponsoring for otherwise perfect uploads" is a great gate for core-dev access
<BenC> Anything from any one?
<sil2100> I would also really recommend PPU right now
<cyphermox> BenC: nothing from me
<sil2100> cyphermox: right
 * sil2100 is good
<BenC> Ok
<BenC> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May  9 15:34:43 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-05-09-15.01.moin.txt
<BenC> Thanks everybody. See you all in two weeks!
<psusi> o/
<sil2100> BenC: thanks for chairing! First time but really pro
<BenC> Thanks!
<sil2100> o/
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May  9 16:30:33 2016 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Thanks to Otto KekÃ¤lÃ¤inen for his help on security updates for the community supported mariadb-5.5 last week. Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> this week, I'll be working on Touch bluetooth policy, pull requests for new snappy interfaces, landing seccomp arg filtering depending on MP feedback and policy recompiled on snappy for apparmor upgrades
<jdstrand> the snappy team is sprinting this week and I'll help as needed with that
<jdstrand> I'll work on the docker interface for snappy as have time
<jdstrand> fyi, tyhicks is sprinting with the snappy team and may not attend. let's skip him for now but if he shows up give him the floor
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage and community this week
<mdeslaur> I'm about to release some openssh updates
<mdeslaur> I'm on patch piloting duty tomorrow
<mdeslaur> and I have another samba regression to take care of
<mdeslaur> that's about it, perhaps I'll get lucky and will have time to look at some other updates this week
<mdeslaur> sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I'll have some USNs to write for kernel updates in the next day or so
<sbeattie> I need to finish up testing the libc updates
<sbeattie> I'm working with do ko on getting an updated gcc-4.8 into the trusty-security pocket
<sbeattie> oh, and I have an openjdk-6 update to do.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: that's a sponsored openjdk-6 update?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yeah, t daitx prepared it
 * jdstrand nods
<sbeattie> I'm also digging into a few more pie-related build failures for yakkety
<sbeattie> ... and that will probably consume my week
<sbeattie> jjohansen: you want to go next?
<jjohansen> sure
<jjohansen> I'm working on apparmor
<jjohansen> I have a few things to finish up with on the xace investigation, so that others can evaluate it
<jjohansen> and then its back to fixing kernel bugs
<jjohansen> that is addressing some bugs with apparmor in the kernel
<jjohansen> so that stacking can be fully utilized
<jjohansen> thats it for me sarnold?
<jjohansen> sarnold: you're up
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: why don't you go and sarnold can follow you
<chrisccoulson> This week, I've got a firefox update to get out, and also Oxide
<chrisccoulson> I also need to fix a build failure with xenial/armhf
<chrisccoulson> I plan to get bug 1326697 finished too - part of that involves migrating to git, which I've basically done now
<ubottu> bug 1326697 in Oxide "GN (Generate Ninja) is coming" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1326697
<chrisccoulson> Oh, I need to do Thunderbird too
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<jdstrand> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week.
<sarnold> I owe a few emails to different teams as a result of past MIRs, want to work on building my source code searching tool, and will return to MIRs this week
<sarnold> and if I feel good about the imagemagick patches along the way, it'd be nice to finally get that tire fire released
<sarnold> I see they've been busy in the last week, hopefully they've addressed some of the concerns that have been raised about their ptaches
<sarnold> that's it for me, jdstrand back to you?
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/policycoreutils.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/yubiserver.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pinpoint.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sqlite.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xerces-c.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May  9 16:55:58 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-05-09-16.30.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-05-10
<rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 10 16:00:04 2016 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> Hi all.
<cpaelzer> o/
<rbasak> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<caribou> o/
<rbasak> #info No actions from previous meeting.
<rbasak> #topic Development Release
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Development Release
<rbasak> So, it's Yakkety time. At this time in the cycle we want to be working on syncs and merges. nacc's git importer should be online soon (this week) so I've been putting off looking at merges until then.
<rbasak> #subtopic Release Bugs
<rbasak> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rbasak> I guess it's pretty early to be looking at release bugs right now. The only one listed there is a gcc fix that I know the Foundations team are working on.
<rbasak> #topic Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
<smoser> o/
<rbasak> I noticed that others have been triaging bugs - thank you.
<jgrimm> o/
<teward> o/  (late)
<rbasak> I triaged a few bugs that I think are pretty straightforward and good for any prospective Ubuntu devs. I tagged them "bitesize". If you are looking to get upload rights in the future then please take a look at this - I've been deliberately setting them aside.
<cpaelzer> FYI - if one has more than a spare minute it is really way more effective to triage "all of a package", since that drops repro time a lot and you often find dups easier
<rbasak> I've been keeping a close eye on bugs that affect Xenial. There's one squid3 upgrade issue that infinity is looking at for us. MySQL has a few bugs that upstream are working on for me; we intend an SRU this month. I'm not aware of any other major issues.
<rbasak> Are there any bugs that people would like to point out?
<rbasak> I suppose that's the following topic, actually.
<rbasak> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> nothing particular to bring up
<cpaelzer> rbasak: 1578576 is hot as well, but mdeslaur is on it
<cpaelzer> bug 1578576
<ubottu> bug 1578576 in samba (Ubuntu Xenial) "ntlm_auth --helper-protocol=squid-2.5-ntlmssp report segfault" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1578576
<rbasak> #info Squid, Samba and MySQL bugs noted; all are in progress. Nothing else in particular to bring up.
<rbasak> Thanks cpaelzer
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
<rbasak> Any questions to/from the QA team?
<jgrimm> rbasak, well we don't have a QA rep at the moment.  there is a Canonical job posting if any one is interested, or friends to recommend
<rbasak> Thanks jgrimm!
<rbasak> #info No questions to or from the QA team
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Nothing noteworthy from our side so far. Are there any questions?
<jgrimm> libvirt update planned for yakkety?
<hallyn> today i think
<hallyn> just looking over the changelog
<jgrimm> cool
<jgrimm> just making people aware in case there is fall out
<cpaelzer> hallyn: didn't you say you were blocked on a dh_ tihng - is that already solved?
<hallyn> i did - but today i can't get upgrades to fail,
<hallyn> so it does seem fixed somewhere.  i don't know where
<hallyn> (not in init-system-helpers, no update there)
<cpaelzer> hallyn: " today i can't get upgrades to fail," sounds great .-)
<rbasak> Sounds good ;)
<rbasak> Thanks smb for representing the kernel team
<rbasak> #info No questions to/from the kernel team
<rbasak> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
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<rbasak> Anything here worth mentioning?
<rbasak> #info No upcoming CfPs of note
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
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<rbasak> Any of these?
<rbasak> #info No upcoming events of note
<rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<jgrimm> i created a y blueprint for server .. blank slate atm
<rbasak> I have one thing to mention. Last cycle I landed some stuff quite late. Although I followed process, it surprised some other teams.
<rbasak> jgrimm: do you have a link, please?
<jgrimm> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-y-server-core
<rbasak> So, my thought is: perhaps at the meeting we can have a topic to consider what we need to communicate with other teams, eg. stuff landing that might impact people.
<rbasak> Then we could take actions to make that communication. As a way of not forgetting.
<jgrimm> rbasak, that works for me
<rbasak> #link #topic Open Discussion
<rbasak> Uh
<rbasak> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-y-server-core
<cpaelzer> rbasak: we should consider anything passing a TBD pre-FF date as being a candidate for that list/communication
<rbasak> cpaelzer: that's a good point - the closer we are (or past) FF we really need to be communicating this. But I don't see any reason to exclude communication even now in the cycle - just that the bar for required announcements would be higher and go down as the cycle progresses.
<cpaelzer> rbasak: yeah, ack on that
<jgrimm> rbasak, agreed
<rbasak> OK. Agenda already edited :)
<rbasak> Anything else for Open Discussion?
<teward> jgrimm: the blueprint isn't blank anymore, I've added a work item for the nginx merge from Debian that I need to get done this cycle.  No bug filed yet... it's a messy merge, might end up reapplying the Ubuntu delta, basing on a clean Debian version of the package
<jgrimm> teward, thank you
<rbasak> Thanks teward
<teward> rbasak: only what I just told jgrimm - nginx merge will be messy, I may give a call out for 'installation/upgrade' testing in the future when it's 'ready' for such tests, I expect bugs as a result as well too post-merge
<teward> yep
<rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<rbasak> The next meeting will be at Tue 17 May 16:00:00 UTC 2016. jamespage will chair.
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 10 16:18:51 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-05-10-16.00.moin.txt
<rbasak> Thanks all!
<jamespage> o/
<caribou> thanks rbasak
<jamespage> thanks rbasak
<jgrimm> thanks rbasak
<cpaelzer> thanks rbasak, cu
<teward> thanks, rbasak
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-05-12
<sil2100> o/
<tdaitx> \o
<pitti> Ã¸
<infinity> Sorry, lost track of time.
<xnox> hi
<barry> \o
<robru> o~
<pitti> no slangasek today?
<infinity> slangasek: *poke*
<chiluk> o/
<infinity> pitti: He's at the snappy sprint, but he might be around?
<infinity> I don't think he told any of us to take over for him.
<pitti> *shrug*
<pitti> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 12 15:06:43 2016 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pitti> shuf results: xnox barry bdmurray tdaitx infinity chiluk pitti slangasek robru cyphermox caribou sil2100 doko
<xnox> i win =)
<pitti> (totally fair dice roll, I swear!)
<pitti> #topic lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<xnox> working on sru bugs for netcfg, gcc-5.
<xnox> working on cloud-images for z/vm almost done to hand over to cpc team.
<xnox> jetlagged, having afternoon naps.
<xnox> done.
<bdmurray> xnox: that's old age
<infinity> xnox: Me too (re: jetlag).
<barry> jetlag, shmetlag
<xnox> infinity, calgary & texas are not the same time zone? =)
<barry> recovering from lxd/schroot/encrypted home unmounting/kernel panic issues
<barry> pycon prep; @public decorator; PEP 8 discussions
<barry> LP: #1579738
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1579738 in Canonical System Image "Device stopped receiving OTA-updates due to outdated keyring" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579738
<barry> SRU'd pip/pyparsing fixes; pex 1.1.6-1; pyflakes 1.2.2-1; pyparsing 2.1.1+dfsg1-1 (debian bug #710660; debian bug #735542; debian bug #823560); debian bug #823883; LP: #1560134; LP: #1578761; debian bug #823358; enum34 1.1.5-1 (debian bug #820312; debian bug #793506)
<ubottu> Debian bug 710660 in python3-pyparsing "python3-pyparsing: add autopkgtest" [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/710660
<ubottu> Debian bug 735542 in python-pyparsing "Should Suggest: python-pyparsing-doc" [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/735542
<ubottu> Debian bug 823560 in src:pyparsing "please build a pypy-pyparsing package" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/823560
<ubottu> Debian bug 823883 in autodep8 "autodep8: Support PyPy packages" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/823883
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1560134 in pyflakes (Ubuntu) "TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str'" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1560134
<infinity> xnox: Off by an hour!
<barry> starting on the libpeas resync
<barry> --done--
<bdmurray> added in yakkety, and its milestones, to the errors code
<bdmurray> committed a fix to Errors for LP: #1571772
<bdmurray> created yakkety test crashes
<bdmurray> fixed fetch-test-crashes to put right arch crashes in right folders
<bdmurray> tested pitti's apport gdb changes in the staging env of the error tracker
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1571772 in Errors "retrace failure example instance should be a clickable link" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571772
<bdmurray> investigation into why using sandbox version of gdb doesn't produce a crash_sig
<bdmurray> reported apport bugs LP: #1580287, LP: #1579949, LP: #1579897
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1580287 in Apport "apport doesn't install gdb dependencies" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1580287
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have failed queue retracers stop using --sandbox
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1579949 in apport (Ubuntu) "add_gdb_info hides OSErrors when running gdb during retracing" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579949
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1579897 in apport (Ubuntu) "report's _command_output function doesn't always return the error" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579897
<pitti> barry: done?
<bdmurray> worked with barry to sort out issues with ubuntu-release-upgrader tests
<bdmurray> resolved ubuntu-release-upgrader test ordering failure w/ test_sources_list
<bdmurray> resolved ubuntu-release-upgrader unicode sources test failure
<bdmurray> uploaded potential xenial fix for LP: #1538438
<bdmurray> â done
<pitti> barry: nevermind, scroll error
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1538438 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt-helper crashed with SIGABRT in __gnu_cxx::__verbose_terminate_handler()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1538438
<bdmurray> modified cranberry branch of ubuntureports ubuntu-archive-tools to be auto updated
<tdaitx> = Security update for OpenJDK 6
<tdaitx>   * New icedtea 1.13.11 release
<tdaitx>   * Provided backport to Wily, Trusty, and Precise to the security team on Friday; published on Tuesday
<tdaitx>   * ARM32 JIT is broken due to the hotspot security update
<tdaitx>     - IcedTea 1.x patches OpenJDK 6 to add ARM32 JIT
<tdaitx>     - Differently from IcedTea 2.x it provides no way to disable that build (it is always enabled)
<barry> :)
<tdaitx>     - doko added a small patch to prevent it from being build (thanks!)
<tdaitx>   * Trusty's OpenJDK 6 is in Universe but also being handled by the security team
<tdaitx>     - They release to both -security and -updates pockets
<tdaitx>     - Trying to understand if how much of an overburden this is (if any at all) for them
<tdaitx>     - If it is, then why do they care for Universe? Got a partial response, need further info
<tdaitx>     - Will tackle that on our next sprint
<tdaitx> = JCK 8
<tdaitx>   * Build packages for JCK 8
<tdaitx>     - Being kept on a private repo
<tdaitx>   * Updated scripts to use the new JCK 8 packages
<tdaitx>   * Updated setup scripts to use LXD
<tdaitx>   * Refactoring scripts to break down dependencies and moving further to something that can used in a charm
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx>   * Handling new OpenJDK bugs (duplicates, requesting additional info from users, ...)
<tdaitx> (done)
<infinity> * Last week:
<infinity>   - Cloud sprint
<infinity>   - Emergency security kernel
<infinity> * Two day week this week:
<infinity>   - SRU queue reviews
<infinity>   - SRUs for dpkg, apt, ubuntu-dev-tools, mplayer
<infinity>   - Merges
<pitti> bdmurray: sorry, had to revert the "gdb from target release" thing, see bug
<infinity>   - Looking into LSB printing issues
<infinity>   - General AA cleanup work
<infinity>   - Test and release lts-xenial trusty d-i support
<infinity>   - Clean up ubuntu-core -> ubuntu-base rename
<infinity> (done)
<xnox> infinity, ubuntu-base is snapish or just-tarball?
<pitti> basically a debootstrap tarball
<xnox> ack
<chiluk> - LP 1579917 - Collected information for Intel, opened bugs with Lenovo as well.
<chiluk> - LP 1576747 - half-tabled.  Need to grab debug logs.
<chiluk> - Day-job. This week was mostly issues related to ADS configuration.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1579917 in linux (Ubuntu) "Skylake processor never reaches low power states on X1 Carbon gen 4 with NVMe drive" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579917
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576747 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Network manager unable to control wifi after suspend in 16.04" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576747
<infinity> xnox: It's the ubuntu-core rootfs tarball renamed to avoid confusion with people stealing my product name. :P
<chiluk> - Merging ...
<chiluk> - done
<xnox> infinity, =)
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - fix lxd bridge detection in LXD image build script, and generalize proxy detection support
<pitti>  - britney: make force-badtest hints apply to lower versions, and to running tests (#1579095)
<pitti> distro fixes:
<pitti>  - apport: Fix gdb error handling during retracing (#1579949, #1579897), test/analyze #1517257, revert our initial solution as it's broken
<pitti>  - Investigate apport regression on amd64, libnih/gcc problem (#1580601)
<pitti>  - libxmlada: fix autopkgtest regression
<pitti>  - postgresql: prepare new upstream security/bug fix releases for all supported Ubuntu releases (#1581016)
<pitti>  - Review/merge https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/whoopsie/ftbfs-network-manager/+merge/294166
<pitti>  - systemd: make timesyncd respect DHCP-advertised NTP servers (#1578663), revert default #threads limit (#1578080)
<pitti>  - lots of SRU reviews (are infinity and me the only ones doing these now?), cleaned up old SRUs
<pitti> yakkety planning:
<pitti>  - Discuss/research/draft convergence-y-replace-upstart blueprint, waiting for cypermox and slangasek to review/approve
<bdmurray> pitti: I saw, thanks. I wonder if there isn't some other approach to doing the retracing.
<pitti>  - Discuss/research/draft convergence-y-replace-upstart blueprint; ongoing, systemd --user is designed differently and it is not yet clear how to apply that (https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2016-May/036440.html)
<pitti> (end)
<robru> so no slangasek ?
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> - prepped for TRIO landings (soon we'll have yakkety+xenial+vivid silos)
<robru> lp:cupstream2distro
<robru> - prepped for TRIO landings
<robru> lp:canonical-mojo-specs
<robru> - submitted branch to fix some paths that are changing
<robru> parallelization work
<robru> - bileto build job is nearly complete. just needs to finish unit tests and flesh out some corner cases
<robru> (EOF)
<cyphermox> - merges: d-i (partially done), cdrom-checker
<cyphermox> - discussed grub vs. gfxboot on CDs for bug LP: #1530530 with Mirv
<cyphermox> - grub2 zfs integration and SRU (bug LP: #1527727)
<cyphermox> - moving secure boot dkms magic to shim and using triggers
<cyphermox> - investigating how to have NM unmanage most devices except wwan and wlan
<pitti> bdmurray: we could perhaps first try to run gdb.$release on the host, and fall back to gdb if that doesn't exist? (same for -multiarch)
<infinity> pitti: re: are we the only ones doing them?  I suspect that's been true this week, but bdmurray and arges will no doubt wake up again.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1530530 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Installer doesn't show up on some Chromebook" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1530530
<cyphermox> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1527727 in grub2-signed (Ubuntu Xenial) "grub-probe for zfs assumes all devices prefix with /dev, ignoring /dev/disk/..." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527727
<caribou> Bugfix :
<caribou>  - multipath coredump:
<caribou>    LP: #1532789 - uploaded for SRU
<caribou>    Lot of issues with multipath-tools on Trusty recently
<caribou>  - Apache 2.4.18(xenial) backport (LP: #1335068)
<caribou>    Request help from laney
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1532789 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu Trusty) "Trusty multipath-tools suffering seg faults" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1532789
<caribou>  - qemu-img hang on Mutex
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1335068 in trusty-backports "Please backport apache2 2.4.10-1ubuntu1 (main) from Utopic" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1335068
<caribou>    Identified kernel bug fixed in Xenial
<arges> infinity: whats the issue?
<caribou>    Trusty has the fix in lts-xenial
<infinity> pitti: I'm also going to get apw in the rotation once he's done a few with handholding.
<caribou> Development work:
<caribou>  - makedumpfile development
<caribou>    Various contribution from HPE
<caribou>    further fix for s390 enablement
<infinity> arges: SRU queues backing up a bit.
<pitti> infinity: oh, nice
<caribou>  - Various sponsoring : bash-completion, packagekit
<bdmurray> pitti: I didn't do my shift last week because of the sprint and the week before I was on holiday.
<caribou>  â Done
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - General work on OTA-11
<sil2100> - Xenial touch transition
<sil2100>   * Pushing no-change rebuilds after libhybris arm64 enablement
<sil2100>   * Preparing automated scripts for checking arm64 buildability in touch packages
<arges> infinity: i did a bunch yesterday actually...there are just a lot
<sil2100>   * Various poking people regarding arm64 build failures
<sil2100> - Touch translations
<sil2100>   * Looking into missing translations in exports for OTA-11, poking to get that fixed
<sil2100>   * Finishing up some automated scripts for langpack sanity-checking
<sil2100> - Discussions on tarball release processes
<infinity> arges: Ahh, good.  Then nevermind me calling you out. :)
<sil2100> - Helping out in getting the jenkaas custom tarball jobs working (firewalls, setup)
<sil2100> - system-image:
<sil2100>   * Figuring out the issue with broken OTAs after key rotation with Barry and fixing it
<arges> np
<sil2100>   * Modifying the documentation
<sil2100>   * Removing stale unused devices in stable channels
<sil2100>   * Switching all custom tarball imports from s-jenkins to jenkaas
<sil2100> - Properly setting up the DMB meeting on the fridge calendar
<sil2100> - DMB meeting
<sil2100> - Touch seed updates per various requests, adding new frameworks
<sil2100> - Touch emulator
<sil2100>   * Preparing the emergency snapshot with OTA-10.1 packages and building emulator images
<sil2100>   * Promoting generic and generic_x86 to the stable channels
<sil2100> (done)
<infinity> arges: And yeah, post-lts-release, the queues tend to be worse than usual, as everyone remembers all the bugs they forgot to fix a week before release.
<pitti> bdmurray, infinity, arges: I was asking because seb128 seemed interested in joining but didn't get a response last time
<infinity> pitti: I'll take that discussion off a public channel. :)
<pitti> sil2100: oh, what do you test in langpacks? anything applicable to the distro too?
<sil2100> pitti: simple stuff, not sure if it'll be useful: checking image manifests and seeing if any langpacks are missing or added, checking versions, checking contents for .po files (listing if some are missing/added)
<pitti> sil2100: the last one seems interesting indeed
<sil2100> pitti: basically covering some of the common error cases in our touch POV
<pitti> doko: ?
<infinity> sil2100: Any kind of testing would be decent.  Our langpack SRU process is pretty awful these days.
<infinity> sil2100: So, if you come up with any automation that's remotely handly, please hand it off to pitti and we can make the world a better place.
<jose> also, fridge cal? just request in #ubuntu-news
<sil2100> infinity: ok, sure, currently the scripts are very touch oriented as in they're looking at certain touch channel top-most images and checking their manifests as well, but certain tests can be made optional I suppose to make it more useful for others too
<infinity> sil2100: Right, anything that's checking the actual package contents would be nice to have.
<infinity> sil2100: Right now, I think pitti's method is to spot-check a few languages for sanity, make sure nothing was FTBFS, and assume it's all good to promote.
<pitti> I usually do some kind of diff <(find old) <(find new) thing as a sanity check
<infinity> (And, honestly, it's hard to come up with a "good" test that isn't "find 60 testers who speak 60 languages and ask them to install 400 packages")
<pitti> and then download the -de pakcages and test them, but there's not much more
<pitti> infinity: that's actually the test plan right now -- install an update, run through a (short) list of verification steps and mark it off on the wiki page
<pitti> ok, no doko apparently, so
<pitti> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<infinity> I recommend we all lose/gain 20 pounds (as appropriate) before Athens, so we can be the sexiest nerds on the beach.
 * pitti goes off to do about 120.000 push-ups then
<infinity> pitti: Yeah, in your case, you might want to gain 50. ;)
<barry> ubuntu beach sprint party - awesome movie
<infinity> barry: Well, you're not wrong.  It'll cause awe.
<pitti> but which beach?
<infinity> Perhaps not for the reasons we'd like. :)
<barry> or palindromically: ew, a....
<cyphermox> infinity: people will go blind from the glare of too much white skin
<pitti> AFAIK the ocean is some 5 km away, so not just an easy walk from the hotel :/
<infinity> pitti: I recommend whichever beach is most popular with middle-aged American tourists, so we have a fighting chance of finding someone who looks worse in a swimsuit.
<pitti> cyphermox: or deaf from getting technobabbled all day?
<pitti> ok, clearly..
<pitti> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 12 15:25:56 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-05-12-15.06.moin.txt
<infinity> Heh.
<caribou> infinity: cyphermox: that's what we'll all look on the beach : https://youtu.be/eTm0X93l8vk?t=1m8s
<cyphermox> is that gilligan?
<caribou> cyphermox: non, "L'avanture c'est l'avanture" from Lelouch
<infinity> That's a lot of very French looking men.
<infinity> Now I need to watch a Jean Reno moview.
<infinity> Or a movie.
<pitti> thanks everyone
<sil2100> o/
<barry> \o
<slangasek> pitti: oops - good meeting :)
<slangasek> (sorry, sprinting and failed to send my regrets)
<pitti> slangasek: no worries, you can still go to scrollback to see what we broke this week :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-05-08
<sil2100> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<rbasak> o/
<sil2100> o/
<micahg> I'm kinda here and I have another meeting in 25 min
<sil2100> Do we know who's chairing today? I guess we stopped selecting chairs recently
<rbasak> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May  8 15:11:31 2017 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> Might as well be me rather than me waiting around.
<rbasak> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<rbasak> rbasak to sort Aron's request (carried-over)
<rbasak> I was looking at this earlier, and would like a second opinion. But I'll move on for now.
<rbasak> #topic Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Applications
<rbasak> #info There are no applications on today's agenda.
<rbasak> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
<rbasak> One from Gunnar about GNOME Help packages. Is someone availalble to take that please?
<rbasak> I see no other outstanding requests.
<rbasak> Any volunteers?
<bdmurray> rbasak: that's just adding packages?
<bdmurray> If so give it to me.
<rbasak> I think so.
<bdmurray> Well either way, I'll do it.
<rbasak> It might the description of personal-gunnarhj changing too.
<rbasak> Thanks!
<rbasak> #action bdmurray to handle GunnarHj's GNOME Help packages PPU request
<meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to handle GunnarHj's GNOME Help packages PPU request
<jbicha> happyaron also requested his packageset be updated
<rbasak> Yeah, see above - I'll discuss that next.
<rbasak> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<rbasak> I'm not sure on what basis to handle happyaron's request. Do I just verify that he's listed in the Debian Uploaders field?
<rbasak> As network-manager seems like quite a step up from some packages in universe from an Ubuntu perspective.
<rbasak> The others seem straightforward to me, with dkms perhaps in the middle.
<rbasak> For reference: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2017-April/001100.html
<bdmurray> Do we know what his original application was like?
<rbasak> I think it might be before my time. I'll see if I can find it.
<rbasak> I can only find https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AronXu/DeveloperApplication, which was presumably unsuccessful. Or was that converted to PPU maybe?
<jbicha> hi, I hope I'm not interrupting but happyaron has been one of the main maintainers of NM in Ubuntu:
<jbicha> https://git.launchpad.net/network-manager/log/
<jbicha> https://git.launchpad.net/~network-manager/network-manager/+git/ubuntu-applet/log/
<bdmurray> I think because network-manager is seeded it requires some further discussion.
<rbasak> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/09/09/%23ubuntu-meeting.html is relevant.
<rbasak> That's Aron's core dev application (unsuccessful) and it looks like the ubuntukylin packageset was created instead.
<bdmurray> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#PerPackage
<bdmurray> That makes reference to "need to show ... previous work on the package" and "previous concern for the package ... in Ubuntu" - so I think an application needs to be more than just add these.
<rbasak> I suppose that applies to all of them?
<rbasak> Shall I reply and ask him to address that bullet point for the packages he's requesting?
<Laney> The DD process applies to happyaron. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess
<bdmurray> Well maybe not for DDs, but I'm concerned about this in particular because of bug 1676547.
<ubottu> bug 1676547 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "No network connectivity after upgrade from 16.04 to 16.10" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1676547
<rbasak> OK, so what should I do next?
<bdmurray> I think the guidelines for DDs are clear and we should just add it, but I personally have reservations.  So then the question is do we, the DMB, get to exercise judgement in this (DD) case.
<rbasak> The DMB set the DD guidelines, so the DMB absolutely can exercise judgement so we so choose.
<jbicha> bdmurray: is 1676547 happyaron's fault? I'm not sure how relevant that bug is here?
<rbasak> And if we do choose, then perhaps that's an indication that the DD guideline needs amending.
<jbicha> (and I apologize if I'm speaking out of turn here)
<bdmurray> jbicha: cyphermox could explain better but as I understand it the SRU of network-manager to xenial add new capabilities which were not accounted for in Yakkeyt.
<jbicha> ah ok
<bdmurray> So if you had the X SRU installed and upgraded to yakkety you'd have no network. If you didn't have the n-m SRU you'd be fine.
<rbasak> Perhaps the DD guidelines need amending to make it clear that the same original criteria must still apply to the packages being requested?
<jbicha> I think I helped sponsor those SRUs :(
<Laney> The page I linked says you can seek assurances if you think the new packages have more 'impact'.
<bdmurray> Well not many people upgrade from X to Y this late, but still even if it didn't impact many people its not a great experience.
<bdmurray> rbasak: So I think network-manager is worth some further discussion.
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> What about the others?
<rbasak> dkms?
<rbasak> ocserv and proxychains are I think probably uncontroversial?
<bdmurray> rbasak: thinking about dkms
<bdmurray> that's also seeded so maybe it should be discussed too?
<rbasak> #agreed Aron Xu's DD-based PPU request for network-manager needs further discussion
<rbasak> OK
<sil2100> I see only one direct ubuntu upload of dkms made by him
<rbasak> #agreed Aron Xu's DD-based PPU request for dkms is similarly seeded so should probably be part of the same discussion
<rbasak> ocserv and proxychains are I think probably uncontroversial?
<bdmurray> agreed
<sil2100> +1
<rbasak> #agreed +1 for Aron Xu's DD-based PPU requests for ocserv and proxychains
<bdmurray> rbasak: although proxychains was already in his list...
<rbasak> Thanks all. I'll reply to the list.
<rbasak> Hmm. OK!
<bdmurray> rbasak: also you said ocserv and he said ocsev
<rbasak> I think he typoed it. What he said didn't seem to exist, and so I looked up his Debian maintainerships.
<bdmurray> Hmm, okay.
<rbasak> I guess that's it for Aron for this meeting today then?
<rbasak> Any other AOB?
<bdmurray> not from me
<rbasak> That'll be it then. Thanks all!
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May  8 15:49:02 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-05-08-15.11.moin.txt
<sil2100> o/
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May  8 16:35:11 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Jeremy Bicha (jbicha) provided debdiffs for trusty-zesty for weechat (LP: #1686478)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1686478 in weechat (Ubuntu) " CVE-2017-8073 weechat remote crash" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686478
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> Got through a lot of the snappy PRs and store reviews the last two weeks. As of this second, caught up, but dbus activation and update-ns PRs are looming. All my PRs are merged
<jdstrand> picked up the uid/gid seccomp filtering branch since it sounds like people are assigned to worked on privilege dropping in snaps and this is a requirement for that work
<jdstrand> embargoed issue
<jdstrand> wayland/gnome/plasma and kubernetes-support after
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I have a whole bunch of updates I'm currently testing to release this week, including tomcat7, tomcat8, apache2, freetype, etc.
<mdeslaur> that's probably all I'll be doing
<mdeslaur> that it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I've got openjdk-8 updates pending, and will hopefully have openjdk-7 soon.
<sbeattie> I'm also working on a libplist update
<sbeattie> I have some kernel signoff and triage to do.
<sbeattie> After that, I'll look for more updates to pick up
<sbeattie> That'll consume my week.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: over to you
<tyhicks> I'm on cve triage
<tyhicks> I've got a number of followups to do from the roadmap sprint last week
<tyhicks> I need to drive the design of the final bit of the seccomp kernel patches to completion
<tyhicks> I may also get a chance to start working with the fscrypto userspace code this week
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I am working on apparmor upstreaming this week
<jjohansen> I have a few bugs to follow-up on
<jjohansen> but other than that, it is all upstreaming work
<tyhicks> jjohansen: what specifically are you working on for upstreaming this week?
<tyhicks> a couple weeks ago it was dealing with apparmofs changes and checkpatch cleanups
 * tyhicks is mainly curious if you've hit any blockers around those two
<jjohansen> I have a revised, smaller securityfs patch that I should be able to send up today. The securityfs portion is done, I am just doing some revision on the supporting apparmor bit
<jjohansen> it reduces the securityfs changes to just what is needed to support adding symlinks
<jjohansen> much smaller than the old change
<tyhicks> nice
<tyhicks> thanks
<jjohansen> there are still some check patch changes to do
<jjohansen> and I have a list of other random fixes that I know of to preform
<tyhicks> ok
<tyhicks> I had one more thing for myself. I need to retire precise from UCT and open precise/esm in UCT.
<mdeslaur> \o/
<tyhicks> sarnold: I think jjohansen is done now
<sarnold> i'm in the happy place this week
<jjohansen> well, sure I was just digging up the list
<sarnold> returning to MIRs
<tyhicks> jjohansen: we can sync up on those details later
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got chromium, firefox and thunderbird to release this week
<sarnold> wow
<chrisccoulson> I also need to finish my new script for automating symbol uploads, so I can stop doing it manually
<chrisccoulson> I'm not sure what else yet. That's me done
<tyhicks> ratliff: you're up
<ratliff> I'm in the happy place. I have a number of tasks from the sprint.
<ratliff> I'm going to work on an icu update for esm.
<ratliff> I'm going to instantiate the notification service.
<ratliff> If I have time, I will do an update for UC15.
<ratliff> that's it for me, back to you, tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pyrad.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/plasma-workspace.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pcs.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/claws-mail.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/golang-github-appc-docker2aci.html
<sbeattie> tyhicks: not to discuss particularly, but related to what ratliff said, there's ESM infrastructure tasks that will need to be done.
<tyhicks> sbeattie: I think I've got most of the tasks to perform locally documented but you're right that we'll need to do some infrastructure things
<tyhicks> sbeattie: I'll try to knock those out today/tomorrow
<tyhicks> ratliff: fyi ^
<sbeattie> tyhicks: sure, I'm happy to help there, too.
<ratliff> thanks, tyhicks and sbeattie
<tyhicks> ok
<mdeslaur> ratliff: does anything actually use icu in the esm packageset?
<tyhicks> shh
<tyhicks> there's a reason why it is the first :)
 * mdeslaur shuts up
<tyhicks> it'll be a good test
<tyhicks> it is in the list but there's not much there that depends on it
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May  8 16:57:31 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-05-08-16.35.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks
<ratliff> thank you tyhicks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-05-09
<cpaelzer> o/
<ahasenack> o/
<dpb1> o/
<smoser> o/
<rbasak> o/
<nacc> o/
<cpaelzer> ok I pinged a few more and know of afew others that they won't be avilable, lets start
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May  9 16:03:27 2017 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<cpaelzer> There were plenty of actions, but also I know some of them resovled - so lets go one by one
<cpaelzer> ACTION: rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has (carried over)
<rbasak> Still pending :-(
<cpaelzer> wrong
<cpaelzer> I added a description of the way we tag mysql bugs as triage if they are suitable for a central dup bug or to steal replies from.
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/mysql
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-5.7/+bugs?&field.tag=triage
<rbasak> Oh. Thanks!
<cpaelzer> That covers the most common cases and we can easily add more.
<cpaelzer> I updated the wiki for that, the remaining action would be for rbasak to update who maintains the package.
<cpaelzer> rbasak: you are doing that with Lars and more? - it would be nice if you could update this section.
<cpaelzer> The site became a bit "light" now that we actually do it via launchpad tags, but it seemed to make more sense.
<cpaelzer> rbasak: are you ok to take that remainign update as action with you?
<dpb1> cpaelzer++
<cpaelzer> only your part rbasak :-)
<rbasak> My todo entry for that is below the fold now :-/
<cpaelzer> honestly I just wasn't sure I'd get the oracle role in this right, so I'd ask you to take that
<rbasak> Sure
<cpaelzer> everything else will be in the tags unless we want another solution
<cpaelzer> and the wiki plinks
<cpaelzer> #action: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page
<meetingology> ACTION: : rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page
<rbasak> ack
<cpaelzer> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot
<cpaelzer> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot
<nacc> cpaelzer: both continue
<cpaelzer> I see useful new content
<cpaelzer> ok, continuing
<cpaelzer> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot
<cpaelzer> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot
<cpaelzer> the next pair is for rharper on cloud-init
<cpaelzer> ACTION: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<cpaelzer> ACTION: rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
 * rharper hangs head
<cpaelzer> continue?
<rharper> well, we did publish the docs
<rharper> but I've not referred to them in the guides
 * rharper fetches link
<cpaelzer> nore the release notes?
<rharper> http://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/network-config.html
<smoser> \o/
<rharper> cpaelzer: correct, we should link to that in guide and notes
<rharper> s/we/rharper
<rharper> so, yes, carry
<cpaelzer> yeah, I'll continue your action then and info on this
<dpb1> that looks like technical content
<rharper> ack
<rharper> dpb1: yeah, did that before we were told to
<dpb1> rharper++
<cpaelzer> #info mysql triaging now assisted by most common bugs being tagged, see links for details
<rharper> sweet, I was hoping for a gold star
<dpb1> gold stars for all!
<cpaelzer> #info ipv6 info available for cloud-init
<cpaelzer> #link http://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/network-config.html
<cpaelzer> #action: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<meetingology> ACTION: : rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<cpaelzer> #action rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<cpaelzer> the last action was ACTION: teward to add release notes blurb for nginx (1.10.x -> 1.12.x)
<cpaelzer> I synced with him as he can not attend
<cpaelzer> pasting from that now
<cpaelzer> <teward> cpaelzer: well i won't be able to be at the meeting tomorrow [...] make a note on the action item for me re: nginx release notes  to push it to the next meeting for a status checkin
<cpaelzer> <teward> i've got the bulletpoints on a notepad document, i've not gotten much further
<cpaelzer> teward: thanks for keeping us updated, notes in the meeting and keeping the action for now
<cpaelzer> #action teward to add release notes blurb for nginx (1.10.x -> 1.12.x)
<meetingology> ACTION: teward to add release notes blurb for nginx (1.10.x -> 1.12.x)
<cpaelzer> that gets us to current dev
<cpaelzer> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<cpaelzer> #subtopic blueprints
<cpaelzer> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-aa-server-core
<cpaelzer> I saw nacc and myself check a few of the merges already
<cpaelzer> more to come the next weeks for sure
<nacc> lvm2 just went through as well
<cpaelzer> thanks nacc
<cpaelzer> your pace on this makes me proud and wishing there wouldn't be that much libvirt/qemu things up in the air atm
<cpaelzer> nacc for merge president
<dpb1> nacc++
<cpaelzer> #info merges going well so far and which is good given how early in the cycle we still are
<cpaelzer> #subtopic Release Bugs
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> I've mostly seen 17.04 issues recently which is natural after the release and people using it now
<nacc> i think my m.u.c list is pretty short now, so i can pick up others next week
<nacc> yep
<cpaelzer> anyone seen 17.10 things that are worth to share?
<ahasenack> would this be the place to bring up that samba bug I've worked on?
<cpaelzer> SRU comes later
<ahasenack> it's for artful first
<cpaelzer> and if you miss it there there is open discussion as a catch all
<cpaelzer> then pelase shoot
<cpaelzer> this isn't so strict on where
<ahasenack> I have this mp: https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/ubuntu/+source/samba/+git/samba/+merge/323767
<cpaelzer> as long as people provide good input
<ahasenack> and I outline 3 options at the bottom
<nacc> ahasenack: yeah i need to take a look at it
<nacc> ahasenack: as i did the last bit of samba
<nacc> but if you want to own samba! please do )
<nacc> :)
<cpaelzer> oO
<ahasenack> let me just paste the 3 options here quickly (3 lines)
<ahasenack> a) upload to artful, exercise there, and do the same for the zesty SRU
<ahasenack> b) upload to artful, but for the zesty SRU, remove the fix-1584485.patch until we are happy artful's samba is fine.
<ahasenack> c) remove patch from artful and zesty until patch author can chime in
<ahasenack> current status is that pam_winbind is broken on zesty+
<nacc> ahasenack: this is the static linking thing, right?
<ahasenack> yes
<cpaelzer> ahasenack: could you ontline in one sentence what the original patch was for?
<cpaelzer> so everybody knows without reading through all of the bug
<ahasenack> static linking some samba libs into pam_winbind and nss_winbind so that on package upgrades we didn't get into a situation where the running processes would dlopen new/old libraries and crash
<cpaelzer> #link https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/ubuntu/+source/samba/+git/samba/+merge/323767
<nacc> ahasenack: i would prefer a), i think, it matches what i'd expect we'd do (fix dev release and then SRU fix back)
<ahasenack> nacc: ok, that's what the MP is doing
<nacc> ahasenack: ack, i will try and get feedback to you today
<cpaelzer> #info discussion on how to preceed on an issue with sambas libraries (regression-update)
<ahasenack> thanks, my concern is leaving zesty with a broken pam_winbind for too long
<ahasenack> since this was a regression
<ahasenack> s/since/specially/
<cpaelzer> ahasenack: once you encounter a stall on the process with a) you can emergency fix it in zesty
<ahasenack> I wouldn't call it a stall just yet, but thanks :)
<cpaelzer> ok thanks ahasenack for working on this, anything else before I leave current development release?
<ahasenack> not from me
<nacc> php transition is done, we're at 7.1 now
<nacc> php7.0 has been removed
<nacc> tomcat8 transition may have to wait for a bit, as upstreams are not yet compatbile
<cpaelzer> upstreams not compatible means you can't start pushing in the new one while the old one is around?
<cpaelzer> is upstream working on this - so we know this will resolve?
<cpaelzer> #info php7.1 transition complete in artful release
<cpaelzer> nacc: ^^ ?
<cpaelzer> do we expect this to resolve upstream and pull then?
<nacc> cpaelzer: yeah there is a bug open and just waiting on upstream to change their code
<cpaelzer> ok, great
<cpaelzer> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd)
<nacc> cpaelzer: if we migrate tomcat8 to 8.5, dogtag-pki and tomcatjss will immediately break again
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> I know slashd is on a sprint, so we give him a 60 sec timeout to appear ...
<cpaelzer> #info tomcat8->8.5 transition stalled by upstream issue (versions are not compatible)
<cpaelzer> <timeout>
<cpaelzer> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<cpaelzer> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<cpaelzer> powersj is out atm
<cpaelzer> from his info mail an info
<cpaelzer> #info All Artful server ISO tests are now running
<cpaelzer> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<cpaelzer> I pinged smb when the meeting started and he was around today, but didn't join yet
<cpaelzer> there might be a kernel breaking somewhere else
<ahasenack> :)
<cpaelzer> and it is too early to start our #1 question being "what will the next kernel version be"
<cpaelzer> anyone else soemthing for the kernel section of the log?
<cpaelzer> going on ...
<cpaelzer> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<cpaelzer> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<cpaelzer> Linux Plumbers Conference Deadline is closing in
<cpaelzer> nothing else on my personal radar that touches us
<cpaelzer> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<cpaelzer> there will be a mini-sprint the rest of the week to make some of our libvirt delta upstreamable to debian/libvirt-upstrem
<cpaelzer> to ease maintenance later on and let everyone benefit
<nacc> nice
<cpaelzer> any sem-public events out there that people might care?
<cpaelzer> semi
<cpaelzer> ok, that is a no
<cpaelzer> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<cpaelzer> I have something here
<cpaelzer> this is a wall of text, sorry, but there was already so much progress
<cpaelzer> #info Discussion on updating the serverguide as a "bug fix"
<cpaelzer> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2017-May/020429.html
<cpaelzer> There is a mail thread about the discussion I kicked off, but the TL;DR is nicely in a quote of Doug Smythies
<cpaelzer> "Procedure: For the 16.04 Ubuntu Serverguide, just tell me when you want an update publication done and I'll do it, after say about a 2 week string freeze and translation catch up window**. For the 14.04 Serverguide, it would have to be an important update, as typically, and only speaking for myself, I don't bother with the older LTS versions."
<cpaelzer> I also saw andreas already started with a doc MP
<cpaelzer> #link https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/serverguide/use-sasl-external-for-config-changes-973981/+merge/323786
<cpaelzer> And a few minutes ago I saw the MP was merged
<cpaelzer> so perfect case to encourage everyone
<cpaelzer> we felt that those won't be updated, but the feeling was wrong
<cpaelzer> So for the issue we had other than fixing in the package if we can, for the guide update add a bug task and provide a branch.
<cpaelzer> Starter info for the guide is here:
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/BuildingDocumentation
<cpaelzer> #info feel more free before to do serverguide changes when applicable as a "bug fix".
<cpaelzer> Any further thing to add?
<cpaelzer> giving a few extra sec as this was a lot of text ...
<ahasenack> :)
<cpaelzer> Also on the thread, we were asked to also provide some doc contribution to kernel uninstall handling
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/serverguide/+bug/1031091
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1031091 in Ubuntu Server Guide trunk "Serverguide Automatic Updates contains inconsistencies and / or errors" [High,Triaged]
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/1647790
<cpaelzer> Would anyone be willing to action himself to take a look at these as well?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1647790 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Choosing "No automatic updates" has no effect" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dpb1> I'd like to look
<cpaelzer> great
<cpaelzer> #action: dpb to look into a few open issues around automatic updates that were pointed out by the doc team
<meetingology> ACTION: : dpb to look into a few open issues around automatic updates that were pointed out by the doc team
<cpaelzer> anything else before I close?
<cpaelzer> nacc: you'll be the next chair - is next week ok for you?
<cpaelzer> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<nacc> cpaelzer: yep
<cpaelzer> #info next week meeting at the same day/time, charing will be nacc
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May  9 16:33:45 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-05-09-16.03.moin.txt
<ahasenack> thanks cpaelzer
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-05-11
 * slangasek waves
<cyphermox> o/
<sil2100> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 11 15:00:43 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e doko bdmurray slangasek infinity sil2100 cyphermox tdaitx xnox mwhudson rbalint)
<slangasek> doko bdmurray slangasek cyphermox rbalint tdaitx xnox sil2100 infinity mwhudson
<slangasek> doko: hello!
<bdmurray> slangasek: he's on a plane afaik
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<slangasek> :)
<bdmurray> Even though we didn't have a meeting last week I'm gonna spare you two weeks worth of activities.
<bdmurray> SRU queue reviews out the wazoo
<bdmurray> uploaded apport to artful with xnox's autopkgtest changes
<bdmurray> merged xnox's autopkgtest change into upstream apport
<bdmurray> uploaded apport to artful disabling add_gdb_info_abort_glib test and enabling crash reporting for 17.10
<bdmurray> deep dive into apport autopkgtest failure with test_add_gdb_info_abort_glib
<bdmurray> reported bug re __glib_assert_msg (LP: #1689344)
<bdmurray> discovered / tested bug LP: #1580601 regarding __nih_abort_msg
<bdmurray> searched for bugs with AssertionMessages from glib or nih
<bdmurray> investigation into ET retracers stalling (vim 17.04 crashes)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1689344 in apport (Ubuntu Zesty) "print of __glib_assert_msg not returning a message" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689344
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1580601 in libnih (Ubuntu) "__nih_abort_msg symbol cannot be read any more" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1580601
<bdmurray> updated daisy to stop accepting / retracing vim 17.04 crashes
<bdmurray> tested daisy changes in devops / staging
<bdmurray> switched Launchpad retracers to use gdb sandbox for retracing
<bdmurray> modified Launchpad retracers to remove EoL releases from retracing pool
<bdmurray> review of ubuntu-release-upgrader bugs
<bdmurray> reported aptdaemon bug LP: #1689668
<bdmurray> uploaded artful fix for LP: #1689093
<bdmurray> reported snapcraft bug LP: #1689966 (full house!)
<bdmurray> sponsored a livecd-rootfs change for rcj
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1689668 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "dialog to resolve config file conflicts can be only one line high" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689668
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1689093 in apport (Ubuntu Xenial) "modify ubuntu-gnome hook to set UnreportableReason for 14.04 and 16.04" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689093
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1689966 in Snapcraft "unable to build a snap of whoopsie" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689966
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek>  * planning sprint last week in Montreal
<slangasek>   * working to catch everybody up on the output
<slangasek>   * working out the net netplan plan for 17.10
<slangasek>  * short week, out sick yesterday
<slangasek>  * various SRU reviews, including catching up on openstack in the queue
<slangasek>  * getting pieces in place for the ESM experience
<slangasek>  * MP review for rbalint's unminimize script
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> yo
<cyphermox> MIRs:
<cyphermox>  - gnome-user-docs, gnome-getting-started-docs
<cyphermox>  - discuss sbuild / related perl package MIRs with infinity
<cyphermox> grub/UEFI:
<cyphermox>  - rework linuxefi patches; make sure SB is used in all cases including chainload
<cyphermox>  - fix loading in UEFI mode when shim validation is disabled (bug LP: #1689687)
<cyphermox>    - this fixes prompting to disable SB when it already is.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1689687 in grub2 (Ubuntu Artful) "pass validation if shim protocol is not installed" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689687
<cyphermox> netplan:
<cyphermox>  - SRU netplan 0.21 to xenial
<cyphermox>  - planning for netplan by default (foundations-aa-migrating-to-netplan)
<cyphermox>  - related planning to deprecate net-tools (foundations-aa-deprecate-legacy-net-tools)
<cyphermox> (done)
<rbalint> * fixed upgrade regression due to screen CLI change (LP: #1686117)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1686117 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "upgrade from Zesty to Artful fails if done in text mode" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686117
<rbalint> * closed #861237 and #861300 because the patches should not be forwarded or should be forwarded in a reworked form
<rbalint> * finished and tested fix for LP: #1680577
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1680577 in autopkgtest (Ubuntu) "Autopkgtest fails on s390x due to long PATH in test config" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1680577
<rbalint> * triaged LP: #1687344
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1687344 in wireshark (Ubuntu) "package wireshark-common 2.0.2+ga16e22e-1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-removal script returned error exit status 128" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1687344
<rbalint> * prepared fix for LP: #1685484, but Debian maintainer does not seem to like it yet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1685484 in systemd (Ubuntu) "DHCP exit hook for setting systemd-timesyncd NTP servers doesn't work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1685484
<rbalint> * merged libdebian-installer, waiting for sponsorship (LP: #1688246)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1688246 in libdebian-installer (Ubuntu) "Please merge libdebian-installer 0.110 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1688246
<rbalint> --
<rbalint> * fixed pywavelets build on armhf LP: #1688574
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1688574 in pywavelets (Ubuntu) "pywavelets 0.5.1-1.1 FTBFS on armhf" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1688574
<rbalint> * added fixes for lvm2 and open-iscsi in LP: #1576341
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576341 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd in degraded state on startup in LXD containers" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576341
<rbalint> * also added fix for sytemd, but maybe lxc images could be fixed instead
<rbalint> * updated unminimize script based on revire
<rbalint> * preparing SRUs for all releases for LP: #1684090
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1684090 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "Autopkgtest is failing on most architectures, ppc64el passes" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1684090
<cyphermox> oh, sorry about that indeed I need to sponsor your libd-i
<rbalint> * started using https://github.com/mnauw/git-remote-bzr/ which fork can open new branches on lp: and now I'm really happy :-)
<rbalint> EOF
<slangasek> cyphermox: "including chainload" - oh, does that explain why we've been failing to chainload Windows? :/
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK
<tdaitx>   * Repackged OpenJDK 8 for Xenial/Yakkety to the security team (this time with jamvm included)
<tdaitx>   * Finished backporting security patches to OpenJDK 7
<tdaitx>     - build time is taking a long time since I enabled additional tests, might need to move them to autopkgtest in the future
<tdaitx> = JCK
<tdaitx>   * Improving automation
<tdaitx> (done)
<cyphermox> slangasek: no, that's something else more or less unrelated
 * xnox ponders when we will start moving to git for our workflows (e.g. seeds, d-i, etc)
<xnox> building cloud images with netplan (multiple issues in cloud-init/nplan)
<xnox> systemd-udev stable device names for arm64 platform NICs (needed for certification, submitted pull request upstream)
<xnox> openssh debugging sandbox violation on crypto-accelerated s390x, results presented back to IBM who are now landing that patch to upstream
<xnox> systemd/lxc attempting to pass through adt with unified cgroups
<xnox> filing sbuild MIR just now =)
<xnox> ..
<cyphermox> slangasek: I have a patch that fixes that too though, in theory
<sbeattie> tdaitx: I'm just publishing openjdk-8 this morning
<sil2100> Uh, oh
<infinity> xnox: Moving seed to git was a TODO for Colin and I.  Should revisit it.  d-i should come with a merge o' doom.
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Finalizing some old branches for better classic confinement handling
<sil2100>   * Looking into issues with autopkgtest dying because of exceeding API rate
<sil2100>   * Some work here and there on the hook API
<sil2100> - A few single kernel SRU reviews
<sil2100> - Regular SRU reviews
<sil2100> - Work on and testing of the new upstream package releases for GCE
<sil2100> - DMB meeting
<sil2100> - Some testing of the uvp-monitor
<sil2100> (done)
<cyphermox> infinity: did you do that merge o' doom?
<infinity> * Three day week, due to vacation last week:
<infinity>   - General SRU/AA tasks
<infinity>   - Back to work on glibc 2.25 and trunk
<infinity>   - Drove artful uninst, priority-mismatches, and NBS reports back down to zero
<infinity>   - Some more back and forth with guillem about dpkg/buildinfo
<infinity>   - Some fixes to dump build-essential from desktop to ship-live
<infinity>   - autopkgtest gardening
<infinity> (done)
<infinity> cyphermox: I sure didn't.
<cyphermox> phew
<tdaitx> sbeattie, nice, thanks! I'm planning to upload openjdk-7 today, but I might wait for doko to review it if he has the time for that
<sbeattie> tdaitx: okay, thanks.
<slangasek> any other questions on status?
<rbalint> regarding moving to git maybe we could start using git commit msg convention
<rbalint> one line subject, one empty, then details
<rbalint> bzr style comments imported to git seem a bit crowded
<infinity> When working on packages, I tend to just use debcommit.
<infinity> Which doesn't at all match git/kernel conventions, but oh well.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else for today?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 11 15:18:37 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-05-11-15.00.moin.txt
<slangasek> evidently not :)
<slangasek> thanks, all
<sil2100> o/
<tdaitx> \o thanks!
<rbalint> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-05-12
<aisrael> Can anyone here edit the membership board wiki? It's marked as immutable, so I can't move myself to the 3rd Wednesday meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<Kilos> aisrael i hope thats right.
<aisrael> Kilos, Yes, that's great. Thank you!
<Kilos> you welcome
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-05-14
<phunyguy> cccccccuhdavvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
<phunyguy> sorry....... cat.
<remet> im here
<remet> Sarvatt
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-05-07
<slashd> o/
<cyphermox> oi
<sil2100> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<jbicha> o/
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Ubuntu Developer Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May  7 15:02:20 2018 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cyphermox> jbicha: arrange call for nominations and elections; that's very done.
<jbicha> we just need to confirm the results
<cyphermox> that'll go next
<cyphermox> no other outstanding items
<cyphermox> #topic DMB election results
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: DMB election results
<cyphermox> jbicha: want to take it away?
<cyphermox> or I'll add
<jbicha> I'll let you do it :)
<cyphermox> So; we have DMB members re-elected:   rbasak,  micahg,  sil2100
<sil2100> \o/
<cyphermox> and two new DMB members:   slashd   and   tsimonq2
<cyphermox> seemsl ike tsimonq2 is potentially away.
<slashd> Congrats micahg sil2100 tsimonq2 rbasak
<cyphermox> congrats everyone
<cyphermox> I don't know that there's any formal procedure to "confirm results", that's certainly not in docs, and wouldn't make sense for /us/ to confirm it -- it's the TB's job to process adding people to the right team
<cyphermox> however, it doesn't look like that has been done yet.
<sil2100> Thanks o/
<jbicha> last year we had a vote
<micahg> we usually just take a vote
<sil2100> Congrats slashd o/
<cyphermox> jbicha: vote is nonsensical in that process
<cyphermox> if you really insist
<micahg> it's a vote to certify
<cyphermox> we're two, for one we're not quorate, and like I said, what's the point of us confirming election results?
<jbicha> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2017/09/11/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t20:15
<jbicha> it is funny that there would technically only be two of usâ¦
<cyphermox> micahg: my point is, it is nonsensical for the board itself to certify election results for itself
<cyphermox> that would potentially make more sense if the TB did ;)
<cyphermox> since the TB/CC delegate membership/upload rights decisions to us
<cyphermox> let's just do it now
<cyphermox> #vote Confirm election results
<meetingology> Please vote on: Confirm election results
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<jbicha> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jbicha
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<cyphermox> that's quorum I guess
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Confirm election results
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<sil2100> I wasn't sure if I was to vote
<tsimonq2> I apologize.
<tsimonq2> I'm here.
<sil2100> Since it's a bit strange to vote for myself
<jbicha> sil2100: I think the biggest issue is whether anyone had objections to the election results and I'm not aware of any soâ¦
<cyphermox> sil2100: it's fine.
<sil2100> Ok
<cyphermox> We do not have applicants to upload rights at this time, so I suggest we move ahead
<cyphermox> nothing on the ML either?
<jbicha> #action jbicha to ask TB to update DMB member status and announce results
<meetingology> ACTION: jbicha to ask TB to update DMB member status and announce results
<cyphermox> ta
<cyphermox> jbicha, also update the mailing list access
<jbicha> could someone else take care of ensuring the new members get added to the IRC channel & mailing list?
<cyphermox> ack
<cyphermox> #action cyphermox to sort out ML / IRC channel accesses
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox to sort out ML / IRC channel accesses
<jbicha> thanks
<cyphermox> #topic Next chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Next chair
<cyphermox> we should update the list, and attempt to follow it better ;)
<micahg> indeed
<cyphermox> anyone wants to go first for this new DMB iteration?
<cyphermox> or do an explicit next chair thing every meeting.
<micahg> I won't be at the next meeting, so I can't volunteer
<jbicha> so next meeting is scheduled for May 21 at 19:00 UTC unless there are objections
<cyphermox> ack
<sil2100> I can chair if anything
<tsimonq2> Ah, just checked timing, I can too.
<cyphermox> sil2100: you win ;)
<slashd> I prefer to wait thing to be official before being volunteering.
<cyphermox> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<tsimonq2> I'll chair for next meeting + 2 :)
<cyphermox> slashd: things are official, we just need to fix up permissions
<sil2100> :)
<slashd> cyphermox, ok
<cyphermox> but for ease of use, I'll script up the meeting process like I have for others
<micahg> Thanks to bdmurray and Ben Collins for their service
<cyphermox> absolutely
<tsimonq2> Thanks!
<cyphermox> #agreed The DMB thanks Brian Murray and Ben Collins for their service as DMB members.
<sil2100> Thanks!
<cyphermox> #agreed The DMB welcomes new members Simon Quigley and Eric Desrochers, and congratulates Micah Gersten, Lukasz Zemczak and Robie Basak for their re-election
<cyphermox> I think that captures it ;)
<sil2100> Let's party!
<cyphermox> sorry if I butchered anyone's name
<sil2100> |o/
<sil2100> \o|
<cyphermox> anything I am forgetting?
<slashd> cyphermox, you are probably the best to pronounce my last name here ;) lol
<cyphermox> slashd: you know I can butcher that too.
<slashd> ;)
<cyphermox> alrighty, I think we're very done.
<cyphermox> #done
<cyphermox> heh
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May  7 15:27:08 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-05-07-15.02.moin.txt
<cyphermox> meetingology: you lied, the #agreed command doesn't work.
<sil2100> cyphermox: thanks for chairing o/
<mdeslaur> hi
<ratliff> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May  7 16:32:49 2018 UTC.  The chair is ratliff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ratliff> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<ratliff> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<ratliff> Thanks to Nicholas Guriev for providing a debdiff for phpliteadmin in bionic (LP: #1767723)!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1767723 in phpliteadmin (Ubuntu) "CVE-2018-10362: Authentication bypass" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767723
<ratliff> Thanks to Scott Kitterman (ScottK) for providing a debdiff for quassel in trusty (LP: #1767539)!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1767539 in quassel (Ubuntu Bionic) "Security fixes from 0.12.5 require backfit to earlier releases" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767539
<ratliff> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Thank you!
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<ratliff> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> this week I plan to:
<jdstrand> * email catch up from last week
<jdstrand> * finish part ii of phase 1 of the snap usns work
<jdstrand> * perform many PR reviews snapd
<jdstrand> * investigate issues with resquashfs enforcement
<jdstrand> this is also a short week (off friday) and I'm off next monday
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently publishing qpdf and cups-filters updates
<mdeslaur> and there's a new webkit2gtk update to prepare
<mdeslaur> and I'll be going down the list after that
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I've got an embargoed issue on my plate
<sbeattie> I need to finish updating our tools in prep for cosmic
<sbeattie> I've got a couple of other updates on my plate (openjdk-8, gcc-4.6 backport)
<sbeattie> I'm also trying to catch up on apparmor merges and land a few of my own.
<sbeattie> that's likely my week. jjohansen, over to you
<jjohansen> this week I need to finish up with the major items for the 4.18 pull request
<jjohansen> â¢ I still have some revision on the unix domain socket mediation
<jjohansen> â¢ followup on mjg's audit rules patch
<jjohansen> â¢ more of the dfa cleanup, to allow us to lift permission conversion to unpack time
<jjohansen> â¢ the scope and view work (though that will probably get bumped to the next release)
<jjohansen> I still have some bugs in the 2.13 release to chase down
<jjohansen> and I really need to continue on with the 3.0 policy versioning work, so we can get a release out before 4.18 lands
<jjohansen> thats more than I will be able to do so, sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week
<sarnold> I'm still sorting out missing pieces of my desktop as a background activity
<sarnold> and moving down the MIRs -- currently gce-compute-image-packages is in progress, moving on to fprintd next
<sarnold> and apparmor patch reviews as needed
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<ratliff> I'll go ahead while we wait for chrisccoulson
<ratliff> I'm in the happy place this week.
<ratliff> I am catching up from sprinting last week and working out outcomes from last week's sprint.
<ratliff> Thus, I have some internal work to do. I also have some embargoed work.
<ratliff> leosilva: I'm going to hand over to you now.
<leosilva> I'm bug triage this week
<leosilva> I have a libraw update to work
<leosilva> Also I'm planning spend same time in php5 issue core dump - bad news the guy has not how to reproduce, now it's blind debug
<leosilva> that is all.
<leosilva> ratliff: back to you
<ratliff> thanks, leosilva!
<ratliff> chrisccoulson: last call
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<ratliff> See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<ratliff> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<sarnold> last call, eh? ... I guess I'm in for another old rasputin..
<ratliff> hehehe
<ratliff> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, leosilva: Thanks!
<sarnold> thanks ratliff!
<leosilva> tks ratliff!
<ratliff> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May  7 16:51:36 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-05-07-16.32.moin.txt
<sbeattie> ratliff: thank you!
<jjohansen> thanks ratliff
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-05-10
<sil2100> o/
<philroche> \o
<sil2100> (sorry for being late)
<bdmurray> o/
<juliank> o/
<rbalint> o/
<Odd_Bloke> o/
<Odd_Bloke> Who's our dear leader today, with slangasek absent?
<philroche> I can do it
<juliank> anarchy!
<philroche> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 10 15:05:40 2018 UTC.  The chair is philroche. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<philroche> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<philroche> echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke juliank fginther)
<philroche> bdmurray sil2100 tdaitx cyphermox rbalint rcj slangasek fginther juliank doko philroche xnox infinity Odd_Bloke mwhudson
<bdmurray> worked with webops regarding mojo spec for the Error Tracker
<bdmurray> updated errors, daisy, retracers for cosmic
<bdmurray> updated apport-test-crashes for cosmic
<bdmurray> tested staging version of Error Tracker with cosmic changes (passed)
<bdmurray> submitted RT re update of production version of the Error Tracker
<bdmurray> uploaded update-notifier fix for LP: #1768748 and verified it too
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader to cosmic with support for upgrading to cosmic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1768748 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Bionic) "17.10 to 18.04 upgrade: 'upgrade now' has no effect" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768748
<bdmurray> updated meta-release-development for cosmic
<bdmurray> uploaded plymouth to T, X, A with a fix for bug LP: #927636
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 927636 in Plymouth "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in script_obj_deref_direct()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927636
<bdmurray> review of ubuntu-release-upgrader telemetry server support
<bdmurray> testing of trigger looping bug reports
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> sil2100:
<sil2100> - Very short week due to holidays
<sil2100> - Some distractions due to getting fiber from a new ISP
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and some releases
<sil2100> - Kernel SRUs (+ rebased rebuilds after the CVE)
<sil2100> - Work on security-britney mojo spec with IS
<sil2100> - Testing the grub/shim changes for --auto-nvram
<sil2100> - Work on missing e-mails from the ADT instances
<sil2100> (done)
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 8 security update
<tdaitx>   - provided Xenial, Artful, and Bionic packages to the security team for review and release
<tdaitx> * Backport security updates to OpenJDK 7
<tdaitx>   - finishing up hotspot fixes
<tdaitx>   - comparing fixes that required changes with the ones available on icedtea pre-release repository
<tdaitx>   - combing through icedtea fixed bugs & lp bugs to include any critical fixes
<tdaitx> * Reviewing our openjdk-10 related fixes and forwarding the missing ones to Debian
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK-10 update
<tdaitx>   - reproducing failed certificate bugs (LP: #1768799) to sru the required changes (LP: #1769013)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1768799 in openjdk-lts (Ubuntu) "Java can't connect to https sites" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768799
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1769013 in ca-certificates-java (Ubuntu) "Please merge ca-certificates-java 20180413 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769013
<tdaitx>   - scilab fails to start with openjdk-11-jre (LP: #1762999)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1762999 in scilab (Ubuntu) "Unable to start Scilab 6.0.1 on bionic because of missed Java" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762999
<tdaitx> * fixing libcommons-lang3-java 3.7-1 FTBFS
<tdaitx> (done)
<bdmurray> cyphermox:
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<cyphermox> I'm here!
<cyphermox> - May 9: out sick
<cyphermox> - much autopkgtest fixage for netplan
<cyphermox> - netplan SRUs
<cyphermox> - initramfs-tools + netplan fix for remote rootfs over NFS in cosmic
<cyphermox> - preparing shim-signed + dkms SRUs for module self-signing
<cyphermox> - fixing grub-probe diversion mess for some minimal images
<cyphermox> (done)
<cyphermox> rbalint:
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * only things i can't yet talk about
<rbalint> (done)
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * Cloud images released for CVE-2018-8897, CVE-2018-1087 and CVE-2018-1000199
<ubottu> A statement in the System Programming Guide of the Intel 64 and IA-32 Architectures Software Developer's Manual (SDM) was mishandled in the development of some or all operating-system kernels, resulting in unexpected behavior for #DB exceptions that are deferred by MOV SS or POP SS, as demonstrated by (for example) privilege escalation in Windows, macOS, some Xen configurations... (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2018-8897)
<ubottu> ** <A HREF="https://cve.mitre.org/about/faqs.html#reserved_signify_in_cve_entry">RESERVED</A> ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2018-1087)
<rcj> * Development of simplestreams generation for AWS Minimal images (WIP)
<ubottu> ** <A HREF="https://cve.mitre.org/about/faqs.html#reserved_signify_in_cve_entry">RESERVED</A> ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2018-1000199)
<rcj> (done)
<rcj> juliank:
<juliank> * spent last week on a tiny autopkgtest work sprint; got to know it, and fixed some stuff.
<juliank> * merged gpgme1.0, wget, zsh,
<juliank> * sponsored transmission sync, brltty, slang2 merges; ca-certificates-java
<juliank> * bootstrapped bos01 cloud for autopkgtest - more runners, wooohoooo
<juliank> * uploaded new python-apt for cosmic fix, and apt for test fix (googletest breakage)
<juliank> (done)
<philroche> * Cloud image delivery following CVE -2018-8897, CVE -2018-1087 and CVE -2018-1000199
<philroche> * Cloud image build system vanguard
<philroche> * Fixes to https://github.com/chrisglass/ubuntu-old-fashioned so we can verify proposed livecd-rootfs changes
<philroche> * Verifying changes in cloud-init for Softlayer cloud and GCE
<philroche> (done)
<philroche> xnox:
<blackboxsw> +1 thx phil :)
<philroche> np :)
<philroche> infinity:
<philroche> Odd_Bloke:
<doko> somebody skipped me ...
<doko> - archive opening
<doko> - now at PyCon
<doko> (end)
<Odd_Bloke> * Planning sprint last week
<Odd_Bloke> * Catching up
<Odd_Bloke> (end)
<philroche> doko, that was me. I figured you were not available. My bad
<doko> ahh, somebody not reading my emails ;p
<rcj> We read the good ones.
<philroche> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<gaughen> I can't think of anything philroche
<philroche> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 10 15:23:25 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-05-10-15.05.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-05-11
<sirry62> hello
<tsimonq2> Hi.
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-05-12
<trimpher54> TESTING TESTING
<PaulW2U> trimpher54: please use #test for testing
<shellfishers> TESTING TESTING
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-05-06
<slashd> o/
<sil2100> o/
<slashd> from what I can see no applicant today.
<sil2100> Yeah, we just have the 2 carried-over action items to touch-base on
<slashd> yeah do we start a meeting anyway ?
<slashd> My action for APAC is waiting on the original APAC requester
<sil2100> hm, we usually wait for quorum when starting the meeting, but that's only relevant for when voting is required
<sil2100> tsimonq2 doesn't seem to be around for his action item as well
<sil2100> So I guess we'll be carrying them over
<sil2100> All the other action items are done, so yay
<tsimonq2> I'm around, but alas, with no completed action item :(
<slashd> ok, I guess we are done then ? ;)
<sil2100> tsimonq2: no worries! Hope you'll find some time for that - remember, it's enough if you just have some base we can all chip in on
<sil2100> I'd say we're done, but let's stick around here in case anyone comes with some DMB-related request
<sil2100> I like treating DMB meetings as 'time when we're available for the community'
<sil2100> (I mean, we're available always, but here we're specifically for that ;p)
<slashd> sil2100, make sense
<ddstreet> sil2100 slashd tsimonq2 or any other dmb member, my application is sched for next mtg; if you have any requests for info for me to gather before the mtg, please let me know at your convenience (or now, if you have something now)
<slashd> ddstreet, I won't be able to attend next meeting on May 20th, on my side I worked enough with you to have my opinion about your work. I'll make sure the dmb get my vote pre-next mtg.
<slashd> so my absence won't be a blocker for you
<ddstreet> slashd thnx
<slashd> Here's my recommendation :
<slashd> - set yourself as patch pilot for 1 or 2 days
<slashd> it's low traffic really low
<slashd> - http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/
<slashd> fix something FTBFS
<slashd> again it's up to you, but I think it might help
<slashd> more 'upload' won't satisfy them I'm afraid
<slashd> there must be something in the list that is not super time consuming if you want to have a look
<teward> just as a heads up SOMETIME before the end of the month (next week or two) I intend to file my application for Core Dev.  If you need any requests for info you need from me, let me know now or after I post the item to the agenda. (just wanted to give a heads up about it)
<cyphermox> aaaa. sorry, I thought I was on, but my connection was dead
<teward> (work schedule is chaotic evil with interrupting my ability to get the application filed :P)
<slashd> ddstreet, try to expand your work outside more 'upload' only if possible, show that you can also handle other coredev task basically.
<sil2100> teward: ok o/
<slashd> sil2100, cyphermox, tsimonq2 : did we establish a list of thing we would like ddstreet to do before he re-apply for coredev (beside more upload) I know tsimonq2 is working on a document but meanwhile can we help ddstreet to reach its objective ?
<tsimonq2> slashd: set yourself as patch pilot for 1 or 2 days> That seems to me to be a bit of a catch 22.
<tsimonq2> Of course, recommendations can be made about what to do, and triage can be done, but a lot of it is, well, sponsoring.
<cyphermox> not that I know. the story for applications is pretty much "do work", where that's ftbfs fixes, etc.
<tsimonq2> Since we're at that point in the cycle, I would also recommend merges from Debian.
<tsimonq2> cyphermox: +1
<slashd> tsimonq2, ddstreet did a few merge already from what I can remember
<tsimonq2> As was said before, we're not looking for a set amount of uploads. We're looking to see that you have demonstrated skill in a wide variety of tasks.
<tsimonq2> slashd: Ah, got it.
<slashd> tsimonq2, right this is why i put focus on not only more uploads, ddstreet already showed his skill in the upload area imho
<slashd> tsimonq2, remember ddstreet is already a sponsor in stable release, so he can help as patch pilot for stable release at least.
<ddstreet> is that something that would carry any weight at all in my coredev application?  sponsoring to sru releases?
<ddstreet> i was under the impression it would not
<tsimonq2> slashd: Ohh, got it.
<slashd> tsimonq2, ack
<tsimonq2> ddstreet: Yes and no.
<ddstreet> well that's not ambiguous xD
<tsimonq2> You should have devel uploads to supplement your SRUs, but I would say that if you can demonstrate your skill that way, that's fine.
<tsimonq2> Sorry ;)
<slashd> tsimonq2, I think he did a decent amount of devel upload in disco, and will continue in eoan : https://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=Dan+Streetman&sponsoree_search=name I don't think devel upload is an issue for ddstreet
<slashd> we can have a wider discussion next mtg, but my goal is more that provide reasonnable goal for him to succeed
<slashd> s/that/to ^
<tsimonq2> ok
<slashd> this is why I have suggested patch pilot, and FTBFS situation, (he already did merge (for vlan) iirc and decent amount of devel uploads imho).
<slashd> ddstreet, so bottom line ddstreet continue to do what you are doing, and if you can show us other things such as FTBFS it won't hurt your next application I guess, that's what I can think of and seem to come out from the discussion so far, as you already did other proposal (merge, devel uploads, ...) hope it helps a little bit to prepare you for next mtg
<ddstreet> slashd thnx
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-05-07
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: jamespage: doko: didrocks: jdstrand: MIR meeting pre-ping for awareness
<cpaelzer> Note: doko mentioned he might pass due to PyCon
<jamespage> o/
<didrocks> hey
<cpaelzer> hiho
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: jdstrand: around as well?
<cyphermox> I'm around
<cyphermox> doko did tell me yesterday he didn't think he'd be around for the meeting
<cpaelzer> yep me as well
<cpaelzer> I pinged jdstrand as well inhis chan
<cpaelzer> I think we are as complete as we can be today
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: do you chair or should one of us do that again?
<cyphermox> feel fre
<cpaelzer> well I can copy and paste as well :-)
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May  7 13:05:13 2019 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer> We didn't have any that I remember - all was assigned
<cpaelzer> anything I miss that was open from last week(s)?
<cpaelzer> well, that is a no then
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> Three MIRs with security team ack
<cpaelzer> there was one follow on which is tracked in the wider scope of mailman3 MIR-mania
<cpaelzer> I will set all three bugs to "In Progress" per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MIRTeam#Process_states
 * jdstrand is here
<cpaelzer> That is just the grinding on the long list of mailman3 bugs that will continue for a while
<cpaelzer> hi jdstrand
<jdstrand> hey
<cpaelzer> I think we are done with new bugs then
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> please also mention any other open questions that you might have asked or been asked
<jdstrand> to that last point, yes, we are grinding. the list is bought up every week in our meeting and lots of people are assigned to various MIRs. it's just so many it'll take a while
<jdstrand> brought*
<cyphermox> yup
<cpaelzer> jdstrand: that is fine
<cpaelzer> it was no different to us for the filing and then MIR-team processing
<cpaelzer> There is a doc collecting extra tasks at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hfG79-Pq4G_Q0txNdwKZJBHnpOiKeMUhwdBrhYqbbwQ/edit
<cpaelzer> internal only for now, but soon after initial discussion/clarification converted into public trello cards
<cpaelzer> just FYI for you
<cpaelzer> if more comes up in the security reviews this will be added the same way to the server teams task list
<jdstrand> ack
<cpaelzer> the list of incomplete bugs had no updates
<cpaelzer> and nothing else was mentioned here
<cpaelzer> so I guess no news
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<didrocks> nothing for me
<cpaelzer> me neither
<cpaelzer> seems like no one
<cpaelzer> 5
<cpaelzer> 4
<cpaelzer> 3
<cpaelzer> 2
<cpaelzer> 1
<cpaelzer> goodbye
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May  7 13:15:26 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-05-07-13.05.moin.txt
<cyphermox> thanks!
<cpaelzer> thanks everybody
<didrocks> thx
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-05-09
<sil2100> o/
<xnox> \o
<cyphermox> o/
 * vorlon waves
<juliank> \o\
<gaughen> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May  9 15:04:46 2019 UTC.  The chair is gaughen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<gaughen> o\
<sil2100> o>
<juliank> |o|
<gaughen> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<gaughen> order - infinity doko juliank cyphermox xnox waveform bdmurray tdaitx vorlon rbalint mwhudson sil2100
<cyphermox> ~o~
<gaughen> infinity isn't on the channel
<juliank> me I guess
<bdmurray> juliank: your turn
<gaughen> doko is at a srpint
<gaughen> juliank, it's you
<juliank>  * booked DebConf travel
<juliank>  * python-apt SRUs with locking fixes  (LP: #1826870)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1826870 in python-apt (Ubuntu Cosmic) "cache.commit() doesn't release the archives lock" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1826870
<juliank>  * Various work on getting APT 1.9 ready to upload (ABI/API break), not done yet - first break, some more to come throughout the cycle, as we're working towards APT 2.0 and improve extensibility.
<juliank>  * apt SRUS to fix LP: #1820886 and LP: #1821640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1820886 in apt (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Potential inconsistency due to system halt/reboot being allowed when package installation in progress" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1820886
<juliank>  * merged wpa 2.8 from experimental; dropped android-headers build-dep
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1821640 in apt (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Missing pattern for linux-image-unsigned keeps autoremovable kernels on the system" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821640
<juliank>  * added more gnome 2 stuff to removal bug
<juliank> (LP: #1825972)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825972 in libgnome-keyring (Ubuntu) "Remove gnome 2 stack + linsmith from eoan" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825972
<juliank> (done)
<bdmurray> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> fixing bringing up interfaces without an assigned IP in netplan (bug LP: #1763608)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1763608 in netplan "Netplan ignores Interfaces without IP Addresses" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1763608
<cyphermox> netplan.io 0.97 release + SRUs
<cyphermox> more debugging of HTTP Boot for MAAS
<cyphermox> fielding questions from Till on NM VPN DNS bug 1754671
<ubottu> bug 1754671 in network-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) "Full-tunnel VPN DNS leakage regression" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754671
<cyphermox> updated sbuild-launchpad-chroot to work on eoan
<cyphermox> partner work
<cyphermox> tracking/verifications for in-flight SRUs
<cyphermox> reviewed subiquity PRs
<cyphermox> whitepaper / spec review responses
<cyphermox> (done)
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> * uploaded s390-tools cherrypicks from master for secureboot
<xnox> * uploaded bash PATH SRU updates into all the releases
<xnox> * uploaded upstream test fix for golang-github-prometheus-client-golang
<xnox> * uploaded/working on perl stack regressions w.r.t. SSL_MODE_AUTO_RETRY
<xnox> * uploaded transition to uncouple icu & boost-regex transitions
<xnox> * subiquity code reviews
<xnox> + srus waiting to be accepted into -proposed:
<xnox>   - xenial bash
<xnox>   - bionic bash, s390-tools, ruby2.5
<xnox>   - cosmic s390-tools, python-tornado4 (NEW)
<xnox> Done
<waveform> * Short week (bank holiday Monday)
<waveform> * Working on consolidating raspi2 and raspi3 classic images (armhf working, arm64 being tricky)
<waveform> * Attempted to shuffle cloud-init's startup order to avoid partition renaming (this doesn't work)
<waveform> * Attempted to shuffle fstab earlier in systemd's boot sequence (this is a bad idea!)
<waveform> * So, back to partition renaming - investigated upgrade procedure for /boot partition renaming
<waveform> * Digging into ubuntu-image issue building armhf images on arm64
<waveform> * Investigating wifi issues on core for cec
<waveform> (done)
<xnox> tdaitx, hello
<bdmurray> disabled accepting crash reports from Ubuntu 14.04 in the Error Tracker
<bdmurray> wrote test case for upgrading from 12.04 to 14.04 w/ ESM enabled
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 1824862
<ubottu> bug 1824862 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Trusty) "Enable upgrading from 12.04 to 14.04 while keeping ESM enabled" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824862
<bdmurray> reported bug re u-r-u and upgrading from 18.04 to 19.04 (LP: #1827635)
<bdmurray> uploaded u-r-u for Eoan, disco SRU for LP: #1827635
<bdmurray> updated meta-release-development for Eoan
<bdmurray> uploaded u-r-u again with Ermine info also update m-r-d
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1827635 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Disco) "dist-upgrader tarball needs updating to support upgrades from bionic to disco" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827635
<bdmurray> tested / merged vorlon's MoM changes, updated MoM on the server
<bdmurray> reported u-r-u bug LP: #1827951 re snap refreshing
<bdmurray> reported u-r-u bug LP: #1828072 about updating and SRU'ing it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1827951 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Disco) "snaps not refreshed when upgrading from bionic or cosmic to disco" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827951
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1828072 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Disco) "KernelRemoval section is out of date" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1828072
<bdmurray> uploaded SRUs of u-r-u to B, C, D releases
<bdmurray> reported u-r-u bug LP: #1828100 regarding long term fix for it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1828100 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "KernelRemoval section of DistUpgrade.cfg shouldn't require manual updating" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1828100
<bdmurray> tdaitx:
 * sil2100 pokes tdaitx 
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<tdaitx> * local tests with jck 11 using lxc
<tdaitx> * fixed & tested tomcat8's LP: #1827090, missing upload
<tdaitx> * fixed & tested netbeans' LP: #1825604
<tdaitx> * working on netbeans' LP: #1828427, cleaning up conflicts from upstream patch
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1827090 in tomcat8 (Ubuntu) ""-1" instead of "8005" in tomcat8-instance-create" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827090
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825604 in netbeans (Ubuntu) "Netbeans 10 requires openjdk-11" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825604
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1828427 in netbeans (Ubuntu) "Netbeans fails to create a java project with NoSuchMethodError" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1828427
<vorlon> assuming he's done, since he's having irc problems and won't see if I ask him :)
<vorlon>  * short week, was out yesterday
<vorlon>  * merges
<vorlon>  * improved the filtering of d-i components out of the merge-o-matic stats for Foundations
<vorlon>  * NEW processing
<vorlon>  * SRU reviews
<vorlon>  * boot speed: analyzing remaining pain points across different substrates and kernels
<vorlon>  * prep for Lyon next week
<vorlon>  * out tomorrow, swap for Lyon travel
<vorlon> (done)
<sil2100> rbalint is out sick I think?
<vorlon> rbalint is out sick
<vorlon> sil2100:
<sil2100> - Last week: long weekend due to national holidays
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Some kernel reviews, trying out new code-paths for ESM
<sil2100> - Rewriting the publish_info pieces for ubuntu-cdimage (now merged)
<sil2100> - Setting up an SRU team meeting
<sil2100> - DMB meeting (short one)
<sil2100> - Hacking bileto to not re-set PPA dependencies periodically
<sil2100> - Preparing no-change security-only rebuilds of the toolchain updates for cosmic and bionic
<sil2100>   * Blocked until next week as one additional fix might be pulled in
<sil2100> - All-hands meeting
<sil2100> - Writing up an explaination of the steps needed to add new images for supported devices
<sil2100> - Reviewing final raspi-amazing spec
<sil2100> - Starting the release process of ubuntu-image 1.7
<sil2100> (done)
<gaughen> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<gaughen> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> gaughen: which release are we on?
<cyphermox> ee!
<gaughen> bdmurray, I'm following the instructios
<vorlon> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<gaughen> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
 * cyphermox updates the 'structions
<gaughen> cyphermox, thank you
<vorlon> do we need a checklist item in the NewReleaseCycleProcess to update the link?
<seb128> you guys don't review your stable series incoming bugs? ;)
<bdmurray> the high one, bug 1825021, is carded
<ubottu> bug 1825021 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt's dpkgpm.cc WriteApportReport function should gather more data" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825021
<bdmurray> seb128: Is there one you are particularly concerned about?
<cyphermox> seb128: I think they should be carried over, probably.
<seb128> bdmurray, no, just feels like a weak point to not review the series where most the users are
<cyphermox> ie. script the change of tags
 * vorlon checks where that card is and if it's close enough to the front to ever realistically be worked
<seb128> cyphermox, well, things might be fixed in e but not b
<bdmurray> I haven't had a chance to review them as I've been fixing other bugs
<seb128> anyway, don't let me derail your meeting
<cyphermox> seb128: sure, and then they get in a different list
<seb128> probably not a discussion for here/now
<seb128> cyphermox, we do review all the rls-nn-incoming weekly for desktop (bb cc dd ee atm)
<cyphermox> seb128: if something is broken (incoming) in the previous devel release, it probably is still unfixed in the new devel release
<vorlon> yeah, it's 1825021 is close enough to the top to consider it committed
<juliank> What to do on that though?
<cyphermox> ie. actively culling thigns that are to be fixed, and whatever people really don't care about and won't fix, would be nice.
<cyphermox> rather than forever keeping bugs unfixed in a "incoming" or "tracking" list
<juliank> PATH is now replaced by APT in disco, so tracking it there probably makes no sense
<xnox> cool
<bdmurray> juliank: I thought when we last talked about it we said it needed testing.
<juliank> yeah, well, before I realized it was disco+, and thought it was in cosmic too
<bdmurray> So regardless the original bug is about getting more info and maybe there should be a second one about u-r-u setting the path
<vorlon> bdmurray: do we need to triage any of the ones on rls-ee-incoming that are importance: undecided?
<vorlon> (where valid triage might be "remove tag because someone nominated it but couldn't be bothered to set importance"?)
<bdmurray> vorlon: before we get there could we talk about bug 1821415
<ubottu> bug 1821415 in policykit-1 (Ubuntu) "pkexec fails in a non-graphical environment" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821415
<vorlon> bdmurray: what's the impact of this bug if you run apport as root?
<vorlon> I would expect most users who run apport on servers to just invoke it as root
<bdmurray> vorlon: there should be no impact
<vorlon> so maybe it is low impact overall?
<bdmurray> what about xorg and no X?
<vorlon> as in desktop user is trying to report a problem with their X server not starting?
<bdmurray> yeah
<vorlon> couldn't they also run as root?
<vorlon> but maybe they wouldn't know to
<bdmurray> that is true
<vorlon> do we generate a useful error message in the UI when the client fails to collect due to lack of privs?
<bdmurray> polkit-agent-helper-1: error response to PolicyKit daemon: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1.Error.Failed: No session for cookie
<bdmurray> ==== AUTHENTICATION FAILED ===
<bdmurray> Error executing command as another user: Not authorized
<bdmurray> i wouldn't call that useful
<vorlon> bdmurray: but it at least doesn't silently submit an incomplete report
<bdmurray> Its also worth considering that I'm the one who reported the bug so maybe no one else is bothered by it
<vorlon> so I think it warrants opening a task on apport, but is still probably not a high priority to fix
<bdmurray> okay, thanks for helping prioritize it
<vorlon> so the unprioritized ones
<vorlon> LP: #1727472
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1727472 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "[RFE] Automatically update the Ubuntu version string in ubuntu-release-upgrader" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1727472
<juliank> so boring
<vorlon> certainly seems a worthwhile fix
<bdmurray> should be trivial too
<bdmurray> so target it? and what importance?
<vorlon> yeah I wouldn't make it 'high', but I think we should take it
<vorlon> importance: medium?
<bdmurray> works for me
<vorlon> and carded
<vorlon> LP: #1796193
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1796193 in apt (Ubuntu) "unattended do-release-upgrade asks about /etc/cron.daily/apt-compat" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796193
<juliank> I don't think that's an apt bug, maybe it's a dpkg one?
<vorlon> is it reproducible? do we know what removed it?
<juliank> well, I guess the user removed the file
<juliank> I'm checking files right now
<vorlon> juliank: it's plarson doing automated upgrade testing
<vorlon> so it is unlikely to be the result of user action
<juliank> The files certainly are different in xenial and bionic
<vorlon> I guess there are two questions here
<vorlon> 1) what removed this conffile
<vorlon> 2) what should the handling of conffiles be when using the noninteractive frontend
<xnox> crash burn and die
<vorlon> because we do in general consider there to be no sane default for conffile prompts
<juliank> unattended-upgrades has some code to handle some conffile stuff, maybe it did something here? idk
<vorlon> so I tend to agree with xnox, that the current behavior for 2) is not a bug in the package manager
<bdmurray> I gather that something used to happen with conffiles when using the noninteractive frontend
<vorlon> juliank: unattended-upgrades handling is to hold back those packages
<vorlon> which is not sensible for a release upgrade
<juliank> Now it also detects unmodified moved conffiles or stuff
<juliank> I'm trying to run an upgrade in xenial, but I don't get any
<vorlon> bdmurray: so I think we should initially treat this as a matter of figuring out why there are modified conffiles and addressing that
<bdmurray> So what is the next step with this bug?
<vorlon> ask the submitter for a reproducer
<juliank> Try to reproduce it
<bdmurray> Okay, I remember seeing one with mlocate recently
<vorlon> bdmurray: will you follow up with the submitter then?
<bdmurray> vorlon: yeah and I'll ping david ames again
<vorlon> LP: #1818564
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1818564 in apport (Ubuntu) "directory permission sanity checks" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1818564
<vorlon> is interesting
<vorlon> I wouldn't commit to it
<vorlon> but I'll card it :)
<bdmurray> so leave it incoming?
<vorlon> bdmurray: I'll take it out of incoming but card it
<vorlon> LP: #1825000
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825000 in apt (Ubuntu) "Add ability for mirrors to distinguish interactive and non-interactive apt runs" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825000
<vorlon> ok no fair juliank triaging these during the meeting and invalidating the report ;)
<vorlon> so this is wishlist, I guess we can move on
<juliank> heh, yeah
<vorlon> also the next one
<vorlon> LP: #1828100
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1828100 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "KernelRemoval section of DistUpgrade.cfg shouldn't require manual updating" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1828100
<vorlon> bdmurray has been talking about this one
<juliank> that's something rbalint probably wants to have a look at
<vorlon> that looks like a good one for us to take
<vorlon> so that we can finally put the nail in the coffin of stale kernels on /boot
<vorlon> so I'll take it in for eoan
<sil2100> +1 on that
<bdmurray> Yeah that bug is about the long term fix
<vorlon> so I think that's the bottom of the queue
<gaughen> #topic Team proposed-migration report
<gaughen> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<vorlon> lintian
<vorlon> upstream failure
<gaughen> lintian
<gaughen> vorlon, anything we should do?
<vorlon> Debian broke their own autopkgtests, we can wait for them to fix it
<gaughen> k
<gaughen> done
<sil2100> NEXT
<vorlon> the other one, libnet-ssleay-perl, is xnox breaking apache
<xnox> yes
<sil2100> ;)
<gaughen> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<xnox> and i don't know why, cause it was all green
<gaughen> anything?
<gaughen> beuller?
<gaughen> bueller?
<cyphermox> yes
<gaughen> ooooh
<cyphermox> seb128 has a point;
<cyphermox> should we start to review bb, cc, dd as well as $newcycle
<cyphermox> ?
<xnox> cc is dead to me =)
<gaughen> should we at least do one review of cc/dd at the transition
<gaughen> but monitor bb
<bdmurray> we / somebody could subscribe to the -incoming bug tag
<vorlon> perhaps next week we should review what's in the queue for those, so we can assess how much value there is in doing so
<cyphermox> I already have bb in the script since there *are* point-releases
<juliank> that'S tricky
<juliank> maybe we should do it every first meeting in the month?
<juliank> or every second week?
<vorlon> looks like we need to work through the backlog out of band
<vorlon> and then try to add reviewing these into the meeting agenda
<gaughen> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May  9 15:58:51 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-05-09-15.04.moin.txt
<vorlon> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-05-04
<rafaeldtinoco> hello]
<rafaeldtinoco> o/
<sil2100> o/
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: is going to be 5 min late
<teward> guess I'll chair again but lets wait 5min to get everyone alive
<rafaeldtinoco> ok
<teward> unless sil2100 wants to make up for their failure to appear last meeting :p
<teward> (i'm also finishing up a work call)
<rafaeldtinoco> i need to learn the chairing thing
<teward> *dredges up his logs from last meeting*
<rafaeldtinoco> if I could do pair conversation in pvt with the one chairing
<ddstreet> o/
<sil2100> Sorry, release week was terrible for me!
<rafaeldtinoco> i'd appreciate
<sil2100> I can chair, but if someone else wants to then I can 'skip'
<teward> sil2100: nah i covered for you last meeting and was slated to chair today - your turn today since i took your chair last meeting.
<teward> (I'm here but if you could wait another 2 or 3 min before start that'd be great)
<teward> (literally finishing remarks on a call)
<rafaeldtinoco> alright lets wait another couple of mins
<sil2100> Ok, sure
<sil2100> rafaeldtinoco: ah, so you'd like to try chairing?
<rafaeldtinoco> sil2100: would u help me ?
<teward> good my meeting is done :)
<teward> i can help too if you need
<rafaeldtinoco> ok
<teward> since you poked me too
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<teward> sil2100: you're still primary chair on my radar :P
<teward> i'm just here to DMB meeting :P
<teward> *sips hot coffee*
<rafaeldtinoco> ok lets start
<sil2100> hah, ok, rafaeldtinoco you want to try then?
<rafaeldtinoco> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May  4 15:06:15 2020 UTC.  The chair is rafaeldtinoco. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<teward> #chair rafaeldtinoco sil2100 teward
<meetingology> Current chairs: rafaeldtinoco sil2100 teward
<teward> #sneaky
<teward> :P
<rafaeldtinoco> nice
<teward> (now me, sil, and you can execute the commands)
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<rafaeldtinoco> so the topics now
<sil2100> Let's start with previous action items
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<rafaeldtinoco> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<rafaeldtinoco> tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<teward> simon isn't here so lets roll that over
<rafaeldtinoco> ok
<rafaeldtinoco> #action tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<rafaeldtinoco> is that correct ? ^
<rafaeldtinoco> teward follow up on packageset owning team for ubuntu-mate (carried over)
<teward> carry that over
<teward> and it's duped on the agenda page - stupid copy paste - so you can go right to your request next :)
<teward> s/request/action item/
<rafaeldtinoco> ok
<rafaeldtinoco> #action teward follow up on packageset owning team for ubuntu-mate (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: teward follow up on packageset owning team for ubuntu-mate (carried over)
<sil2100> btw. actually, do we even have quorum?
<rafaeldtinoco> rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" (carried over)
<rafaeldtinoco> that is done ^
<teward> sil2100: me, you, ddstreet, rafaeldtinoco.  4/7
<teward> DMB MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE: reup your "I'm here" wave
<ddstreet> o/
<teward> o/
<sil2100> Oh, right! Sorry, issed your hand ddstreet o/
<sil2100> *missed
<teward> and we know rafaeldtinoco is here so that's quorum
<teward> continue :)
<rafaeldtinoco> ok
<rafaeldtinoco> no actions for me on this one, its done
<rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse (carried over)
<ddstreet> let's drop this one
<rafaeldtinoco> no action ?
<teward> no action and no rollover?
<ddstreet> i still think it would be good to define some policy, but i dont think i will get to writing up a proposal anytime soon
<ddstreet> yeah, no rollover, unless anyone else thinks it's something we should keep on the carryover list
<teward> we need an internal tracker board.
<rafaeldtinoco> i dont see a problem
<rafaeldtinoco> rolling it over
<rafaeldtinoco> until you can or someone else tackle it
<rafaeldtinoco> even if its too long
<teward> yeah, we'll just make a note to not bring it up every meeting.
<ddstreet> that's fine with me, as long as it doesn't annoy anyone else :)
<teward> internally
<teward> won't annoy me
<ddstreet> sounds good
<rafaeldtinoco> ok.. let me put an action
<rafaeldtinoco> and an obs
<rafaeldtinoco> #action ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse (will be carried until mentioned)
<meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse (will be carried until mentioned)
<rafaeldtinoco> teward to follow up with TB / packageset tooling on ubuntu-studio-uploaders being added to ubuntustudio packageset for upload rights
<rafaeldtinoco> this is dependant of my action
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: no ?
<teward> yep it's dependent on your action if you can add them to the packageset
<teward> but if you want to take it you can now, since you're working on the tooling and such.
<rafaeldtinoco> ok, its mine
<teward> cool one less thing on my list xD
<rafaeldtinoco> #action rafaeldtinoco to follow up with TB / packageset tooling on ubuntu-studio-uploaders being added to ubuntustudio packageset for upload rights (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to follow up with TB / packageset tooling on ubuntu-studio-uploaders being added to ubuntustudio packageset for upload rights (carried over)
<rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet to adjust existing member expiration dates from packageset owning teams
<ddstreet> plz carry over again
<rafaeldtinoco> ok
<ddstreet> i should be able to get to it this week
<rafaeldtinoco> #action ddstreet to adjust existing member expiration dates from packageset owning teams (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to adjust existing member expiration dates from packageset owning teams (carried over)
<rafaeldtinoco> i assume this one
<rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet to apply team expiration times for studio packageset owning team
<teward> just as an aside to all: release weeks tend to take everyone's time so the DMB unfortunately doesn't get everything done we want to when a release week crops up
<rafaeldtinoco> will be also carried over ?
<teward> in case anyone wonders why we carry stuff over :)
<ddstreet> yep, please
<rafaeldtinoco> #action ddstreet to apply team expiration times for studio packageset owning team (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to apply team expiration times for studio packageset owning team (carried over)
<rafaeldtinoco> wow we had so many tasks
<rafaeldtinoco> teward to handle PPU rights of tux{math,paint,type},x11vnc for alkisg ahead of edubuntu packageset removal in the future.
<teward> release week got me busy
<teward> plus security response at my FT job got hectic last week due to some major issues that came up
<teward> so i'll be doing that today
<teward> but keep it as rolled-over for next meeting
<teward> for followup
<rafaeldtinoco> sure
<rafaeldtinoco> no faults here, last weeks were busy =)
<teward> yep
<rafaeldtinoco> let me roll over this
<rafaeldtinoco> #action teward to handle PPU rights of tux{math,paint,type},x11vnc for alkisg ahead of edubuntu packageset removal in the future
<meetingology> ACTION: teward to handle PPU rights of tux{math,paint,type},x11vnc for alkisg ahead of edubuntu packageset removal in the future
<rafaeldtinoco> btw, i need to rollover this
<rafaeldtinoco> #action rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" (carried over)
<sil2100> Sure
<rafaeldtinoco> its not done because of my next action
<rafaeldtinoco> rafaeldtinoco to complete documentation on existing packageset tooling, and discuss the current (large) delta in the packagesets that need adjusted
<rafaeldtinoco> i'm half way done here ^
<rafaeldtinoco> have read all scripts, understood all the logic
<rafaeldtinoco> need to document and after that update all seeds based on the tools
<rafaeldtinoco> and suggest the changes for 20.10 to discuss with you all
<rafaeldtinoco> its will be ready by next dmb meeting
<rafaeldtinoco> #action rafaeldtinoco to complete documentation on existing packageset tooling, and discuss the current (large) delta in the packagesets that need adjusted (rolled over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to complete documentation on existing packageset tooling, and discuss the current (large) delta in the packagesets that need adjusted (rolled over)
<rafaeldtinoco> teward to apply permissions changes for oSoMoN to mozilla packageset and send out announcement
<oSoMoN> (hey there!)
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: ^
<teward> E: delayed by phone call sorry
<rafaeldtinoco> no worries
<teward> i have to check on that I may have derped and not done it oops
<teward> so roll over
<sil2100> (oSoMoN o/)
<rafaeldtinoco> #action teward to apply permissions changes for oSoMoN to mozilla packageset and send out announcement (rolled over)
<meetingology> ACTION: teward to apply permissions changes for oSoMoN to mozilla packageset and send out announcement (rolled over)
<teward> (unrelated: seems today is a day for the Net Sec guy at work - me - to get bombarded with crap)
<teward> (stupid phone calls)
<rafaeldtinoco> teward to handle Erich Eickmeyer permissions changes for access to Ubuntu Studio packageset and send out announcement
<teward> same, roll over
<teward> i think i gave them to the team but not the announce
<rafaeldtinoco> ok
<rafaeldtinoco> #action teward to handle Erich Eickmeyer permissions changes for access to Ubuntu Studio packageset and send out announcement (half-done, rolled over)
<meetingology> ACTION: teward to handle Erich Eickmeyer permissions changes for access to Ubuntu Studio packageset and send out announcement (half-done, rolled over)
<rafaeldtinoco> rafaeldtinoco to reinstate Serge Hallyn's ubuntu-core-dev rights.
<rafaeldtinoco> done ^
<rafaeldtinoco> alright, phew
<rafaeldtinoco> we dont have any applicants for package sets or motu
<rafaeldtinoco> we do have for core
<rafaeldtinoco> kanashiro: ping
<rafaeldtinoco> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<teward> #subtopic Lucas Kanashiro
<teward> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucasKanashiro/DeveloperApplication-CoreDev
<teward> (sorry i am impatient)
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: no, please help me
<teward> (those commands are for the meeting logs' benefits)
<rafaeldtinoco> nice, now its introduction time ?
<teward> kanashiro: are you around?
<rbasak> Since Lucas is a close colleague of mine at Canonical I do my usual abstaining unless the others are unanimous and my vote is required for quorum.
<sil2100> rbasak: o/
<rafaeldtinoco> +1 on what rbasak said
<teward> rbasak: awesome.  (didn't realize you were alive heh)
<rafaeldtinoco> I'm on the same team as well
<rbasak> Sorry I was in a meeting at the start (same as Rafael)
<teward> no problem
<rafaeldtinoco> i was saving rbasak to talk until super needed
<rafaeldtinoco> as he was talking in other meeting
<teward> rbasak: with you and rafaeldtinoco taking abstains though, that means we don't have quorum for LUcas' application
<rbasak> That's OK. I will vote +1 if everyone else does and it is required for quroum.
<teward> ack
<teward> i don't see them here though
<rbasak> That's been my personal policy for this kind of situation for years.
<rafaeldtinoco> and im mimic'ing his behavior not to characterize conflict of interest
<teward> indeed.
<rafaeldtinoco> slashd: ping ?
<rafaeldtinoco> eric is on a sprint this week, just checking if he is up to a quick vote
<sil2100> I wonder if kanashiro is around though
<rbasak> Looks like he is
<rbasak> Let's give him a minute
<rbasak> He says he's sending messages but they aren't appearing in here
<ahasenack> nickserv
<rafaeldtinoco> Mode: +Ccnz
<sil2100> Did he identify himself with NickServ properly?
<rafaeldtinoco> kanashiro: try leaving and re-joining the channel
<teward> we can +v them if we have to manually
<teward> i think i had to do that an eon ago for a DMB meeting to move smoothly (before I was DMB)
<rbasak> Well this is an interesting twist
<kanashiro> o/
<teward> (the second time I've had to op today - new record!)
<teward> sorry about the confusion kanashiro :)
<rbasak> (we can see you now)
<kanashiro> great :)
<kanashiro> sorry for that
<rafaeldtinoco> nah its ok
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: so how should we proceed ?
<teward> they're alive so
<rafaeldtinoco> it appears that without you and me.. we have 3 possible votes
<rafaeldtinoco> i called slashd
<rafaeldtinoco> he is likely comming
<rafaeldtinoco> lets see
<teward> rafaeldtinoco: rbasak already said they'd +1 if it's +3 for us
<ddstreet> yeah we should just go ahead
<teward> but we can either wait for slashd or continue or roll over
<slashd> o/
<ddstreet> i think we have enough to vote
<teward> i think we're safe to move forward
<teward> welcome slashd
<teward> now we definitely do
<slashd> I'm here if you need to meet quorum
<slashd> sorry sprinting this week
<teward> slashd: we will need it for this one
<teward> no problem
<rafaeldtinoco> slashd: yey!
<slashd> sure
<slashd> I'm here
<teward> slashd: after this applicant you can go AWOL again :0
<teward> (i'mma keep op to reset perms post-meeting)
<rafaeldtinoco> kanashiro: so, present yourself now
<rafaeldtinoco> please
<kanashiro> I am Lucas Kanashiro (a.k.a. kanashiro) and I am a member of the Canonical Server team. I've been working on server packages (fixing bugs, merges, syncs, reviews, bug triage) and personally taking care of the Ruby stack (interpreter, apps, libraries), and I've gone through most of the processes used by the community at least once (MIR, SRU, seed changes, merge, sync, transition, CVE fix, proposed migration work, package removal). I'd like to
<kanashiro> be more independent to do my work and help to make Ubuntu even better.
<rafaeldtinoco> great. let's give sometime for votes to check your wiki
<kanashiro> ack
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: should we do something when opening for questions ?
<rafaeldtinoco> change topic ?
<slashd> rafaeldtinoco: just for voting, question period doesn't require changing things
<teward> nope
<teward> leave it be rafaeldtinoco :)
<teward> kanashiro: totally unrelated random question not related to your application but as being on the server team: any reason you don't lurk #ubuntu-server ?
<teward> just curious :)
<kanashiro> teward: I think I had some issue with my IRC bouncer and got disconnected
<teward> ah.
<teward> :)
<kanashiro> I'll figure this out
<teward> no problem :)
<teward> no questions from me
<ddstreet> kanashiro are you subscribed to all bugs from any packages?
<ddstreet> (it's not required, i'm just curious)
<kanashiro> ddstreet: I don't think so, I am still learning how to use launchpad properly
<kanashiro> but I should, at least for the core packages
<rafaeldtinoco> Only thing worth mentioning from me is that I have uploaded maybe 70% of his package changes for the ruby2.7 transition. He did all the work in debian and synced it to Ubuntu PLUS solving all excuses that appeared (quote a lot). I follow this work of him for ~2 months.
<slashd> kanashiro: what are the things you need to consider before uploading in developement release when it is a few weeks away from being stable (most recent example is focal which became stable lately) ? and where would you look to see it what can be done or not ?
<kanashiro> slashd: if there is a hard freeze I'd need an approval by the release team, so I need to check if no new feature is introduces (ABI changes). To make sure about the release schedule I'd check the release team wiki page and check the dates
<kanashiro> not sure if this is what you were expecting as an answer
<slashd> kanashiro: yes thanks
<sil2100> kanashiro: since you have worked on bigger things as transitions, can you tell me what additional information can you get from update_output.txt that you can't from update_excuses.html?
<kanashiro> sil2100: I have faced some uninstability issues and output.txt has helped me to identifying them
<rbasak> ddstreet: FWIW, our team has our own process for making sure all bug traffic gets seen, so we generally don't have individual subscriptions (bus factor).
<teward> ^ this
<teward> i can confirm this with how frequently the Server Team at canonical are triaging nginx without anything of my doing xD
<ddstreet> yep, i do know of ~ubuntu-server subscription to lots of packages, there are some members who subscribe individually to pkgs too though
<rafaeldtinoco> kanashiro: you should do it ^ for the pkgs you want to maintain.
<rafaeldtinoco> its a nice best practice
<kanashiro> rafaeldtinoco: yes, I need to do that
<teward> just don't do what tsimonq2 does and subscribe to all the bugs via the bugs mailing list...
<teward> ... seriously just don't xD
<kanashiro> :)
 * rafaeldtinoco leaving it opened for questions, let me know if/when you're all ok
<teward> (seriously don't i won't explain the specifics here bug me in PM if you really want to know lol)
<teward> NO questions from me :)
<ddstreet> nothing else from me
<slashd> nothing else
<sil2100> kanashiro: thanks o/
<sil2100> No questions here
<teward> #voters ddstreet rafaeldtinoco teward rbasak slashd sil2100
<meetingology> Current voters: ddstreet rafaeldtinoco rbasak sil2100 slashd teward
<rbasak> Nicely written up application, btw!
<teward> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<teward> sorry ignore i'm prepping for the vote :)
<teward> i assume no q from you rbasak :)
<kanashiro> thanks rbasak
<sil2100> +1
<teward> #vote Lucas Kanashiro CoreDev Application
<meetingology> Please vote on: Lucas Kanashiro CoreDev Application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<teward> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from teward
<teward> it wasn't ready yet sil ;)
<teward> now it is
<sil2100> Oh, didn't register mine
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<teward> sil2100: because i hadn't started it yet
<ddstreet> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ddstreet
<slashd> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slashd
<rafaeldtinoco> +1 then
<meetingology> +1 then received from rafaeldtinoco
<teward> well that's quorum right there, so we don't need rafaeldtinoco or rbasak but they can cast if they want
<rbasak> +0 as he's on my team and we are quorate.
<meetingology> +0 as he's on my team and we are quorate. received from rbasak
<teward> oh there we go :)
<teward> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Lucas Kanashiro CoreDev Application
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<teward> kanashiro: congratulations on your successful coredev application :)
<ddstreet> congrats kanashiro!
<rafaeldtinoco> kanashiro: congratulations
<sergiodj> kanashiro: congrats :)
<bryce> congrats kanashiro :-D
<kanashiro> thank you!
<rafaeldtinoco> \o/
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: action item ?
<slashd> congrats kanashiro
<teward> who wants that action item of sorting the perms and announcing it?  (I have enough with my current assignemtns)
 * slashd going back to the sprint ;)
<teward> rafaeldtinoco: gotta determine who wants to do it :)
<Odd_Bloke> kanashiro: \o/
<rafaeldtinoco> slashd: thx a lot
<slashd> rafaeldtinoco: sure
<teward> thanks slashd :)
<rafaeldtinoco> I' ll do the honors
<sil2100> kanashiro: congrats o/
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: add an action item for me pls
<kanashiro> \o/
<sil2100> rafaeldtinoco: are you sure? You have a lot on your plate
<rafaeldtinoco> sil2100: you do it then
<teward> #action rafaeldtinoco to add kanashiro coredev permissions and send announcement
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to add kanashiro coredev permissions and send announcement
<rafaeldtinoco> #)
<rafaeldtinoco> ok i do
<rafaeldtinoco> lol
<teward> i can always fix that
<ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco i can take it if you have too much
<sil2100> Yeah, I can take those
<rafaeldtinoco> ill let you guys do it
<teward> IGNORE last action item
<rbasak> #undo is what you want
<teward> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<teward> rbasak: thanks (E:UNDOCUMENTED)
<ddstreet> who's taking the action, me or sil2100 ?
<teward> #action sil2100 to add kanashiro coredev permissions and send announcement
<meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to add kanashiro coredev permissions and send announcement
<ddstreet> ok :)
<teward> sil because i didn't see your claim sorry :)
<ddstreet> np happy to let him have it :)
<teward> well that's the only application for today :)
<teward> so next...
<rafaeldtinoco> looks like we're done
<teward> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
<Odd_Bloke> I did _just_ send a request for cloud-utils to be added to ubuntu-cloud.
<Odd_Bloke> (No rush on that, it can wait for next meeting.)
<teward> Odd_Bloke: That'll be caught between now and next meeting :)
<teward> #subtopic Refresh the packagesets (Sebastien Bacher)
<teward> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001486.html
<rafaeldtinoco> that is on me
<rafaeldtinoco> being carried over together with the packageset scripts
<teward> #action rafaeldtinoco to handle "Refresh the packagesets" mailing list item (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001486.html)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to handle "Refresh the packagesets" mailing list item (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001486.html)
<teward> #subtopic Including yaru-theme in the in ubuntu-desktop set (Sebastien Bacher)
<teward> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001487.html
<rafaeldtinoco> looks like it wasnt picked automatic because of the same reasons ?
<ddstreet> for this (and the next one), i'm super confused about what the desktop-extras packageset is for
<teward> ddstreet: we'll mark this as 'rolled over' pending an AOB item for this
<teward> i'll roll over both items for that reason
<rafaeldtinoco> gnome-shell needs to be added
<rafaeldtinoco> in the exceptions list from the packageset tooling
<rafaeldtinoco> if im reading correctly, sometimes pkgs are put in "wrong"  set
<rafaeldtinoco> and we have to make them exceptions
<teward> rafaeldtinoco: do you want an action item to handle that part?  Since you're the one handling the tooling currently
<ddstreet> i guess?  i'm not sure what 'desktop-core' is intended for though, since there are no uploaders in that pkgset
<rafaeldtinoco> gnome-shell         ubuntu-desktop <- currently
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<ddstreet> thnx
<rafaeldtinoco> all the "same nature" actions
<teward> #action rafaeldtinoco to handle getting gnome-shell into ubuntu desktop exceptions list
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to handle getting gnome-shell into ubuntu desktop exceptions list
<rafaeldtinoco> i'll handle for the next meeting
<rafaeldtinoco> together with the scripting
<teward> @action rafaeldtinoco to look into mailing list item "INcluding yaru-theme in the ubuntu-desktop set" (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001487.html)
<teward> oops
<teward> #action rafaeldtinoco to look into mailing list item "INcluding yaru-theme in the ubuntu-desktop set" (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001487.html)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to look into mailing list item "INcluding yaru-theme in the ubuntu-desktop set" (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001487.html)
<teward> does this also apply to fprint?
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<teward> #action rafaeldtinoco to look into mailing list item "Include fprint pacakges in the ubuntu-desktop set" (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001488.html)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to look into mailing list item "Include fprint pacakges in the ubuntu-desktop set" (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001488.html)
<rafaeldtinoco> all those issues come from the same place: adjusting the packagesets automatically and having exceptions
<rafaeldtinoco> nice
<teward> awesome
<rafaeldtinoco> ill have this all addressed by next meeting
<teward> next quick little item:
<teward> #topic Chair and Time for Next Meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Chair and Time for Next Meeting
<teward> Next meeting is set for May 18, 2020 at 19:00 UTC.  Chair is scheduled to be rbasak per the cycling list of chairs.
<teward> rbasak: will you be available for next meeting?
<teward> (if not i'm happy to chair heh)
<teward> (again)
<rafaeldtinoco> i can chair it
<rafaeldtinoco> now that i know the commands
<rafaeldtinoco> thanks for stepping in to help me
<rafaeldtinoco> specially because ill have many items being addressed
<teward> yep
<rafaeldtinoco> so it will require me big time anyway
<teward> i'll leave it alone for now :)
<rafaeldtinoco> ok
<teward> so rafaeldtinoco you will chair :)
<teward> and i'll still help out :)
<rafaeldtinoco> great. thx
<teward> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Any Other Business
<sil2100> No AOB here
<rafaeldtinoco> n/a
<rafaeldtinoco> ops
<rafaeldtinoco> WAIT
<rafaeldtinoco> I have it
<sil2100> hm?
<rafaeldtinoco> but we probably want to push those to later this year
<rafaeldtinoco> i was going to suggest to move bzr repos (tooling)
<teward> rafaeldtinoco: ddstreet: did you want to discuss ubuntu-desktop/desktop-core during this AOB?
<rafaeldtinoco> to git
<teward> rafaeldtinoco: they are in git already
<teward> last i checked a git repo was made for them already
<teward> at least for the packageset tooling
<sil2100> rafaeldtinoco: which tooling do you have in mind?
<ddstreet> teward i'm ok waiting until next mtg for that, i think with rafaeldtinoco docs on the tooling it may be clearer
<rafaeldtinoco> yes, they are, not the archive-tools though
<teward> ah ok
<teward> ddstreet: ack
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<rafaeldtinoco> lets just wait on this
<teward> rafaeldtinoco: add that as an agenda item when you are ready to discuss it :)
<rafaeldtinoco> we all have many stuff
<rafaeldtinoco> teward: yep, all good for now
<teward> any other business from anyone?
<teward> (30s)
<teward> (20s)
<teward> (10s)
<teward> (5s)
<rafaeldtinoco> that was fast
<rbasak> ubuntu-archive-tools isn't down to the DMB unfortunately
<rafaeldtinoco> your clock should be monotonic
<rbasak> It needs ~ubuntu-archive to move it
<rafaeldtinoco> just saying
<teward> heh
<rbasak> But yes, it should be moved :)
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: yes, i saw that later also
<teward> makes sense rbasak :)  we'll bring that up later as well
<teward> guess there's no other business then?
<teward> thanks all for attending!
<teward> #endmeeting
<rafaeldtinoco> o/
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May  4 16:03:57 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-05-04-15.06.moin.txt
<rafaeldtinoco> thank you!
<ddstreet> thanks all! o/
<teward> rafaeldtinoco: you may wish to also read through the meetingology link I sent you as well as the logs for past meetings :)
<teward> it'll help you learn too :)
<teward> it's how i got the flow down for the meetings here :)
<rafaeldtinoco> already opened h4ere
<rafaeldtinoco> tks teward
<teward> time to go stab my work related items today.
<teward> *away*
<rafaeldtinoco> +1 o/
<sil2100> rafaeldtinoco, teward: remember (one of you who did chair!) about updating the Agenda page o/
<teward> sil2100: if rafaeldtinoco doesn't do that I will by EOD or if not today tomorrow.
<teward> crazy crap in the ITSec world :P
<rafaeldtinoco> sil2100: teward: oh, i thought it was automatic, will do it now
<teward> nope the agenda page doesn't autoupdate
<teward> :)
<teward> i wish it did
<sil2100> I removed Lucas from the Agenda as I have now finished the after-successful-application tasks
<rafaeldtinoco> nice, ill update it based on this meeting then
<rafaeldtinoco> alright. done
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-05-05
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: doko: sarnold: joeubuntu: jamespage: didrocks: meeting time soon ..
<jamespage> o/
<ddstreet> o/
<joeubuntu> o/
<cpaelzer> ok, let's get this started
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May  5 13:01:08 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer> there are two actions of last week
<cpaelzer> #1 I had contact with xnox about the Ubuntu.Groovy community-maas seed that shows up in component mismatches
<cpaelzer> and makes us wonder every week
<cpaelzer> he asked us to "Please ignore community seeds in MIR meetings."
<cpaelzer> he also wanted to fix ubuntu-archive-scripts and ubuntu-archive-tools proposed misssmatches reports but the changes didn't work out
<cpaelzer> therefore it is still in the overview, but we should ignore it for now
<cpaelzer> that is ok with me but I wanted you all to know about it as well
<cpaelzer> sparkiegeek: just too late :-)
<sparkiegeek> cpaelzer: heh
<cpaelzer> I already mentioned that xnox told us to ignore the mistmatches triggered by "Ubuntu.Groovy community-maas seed" and similar
<cpaelzer> action #2 we had sarnold trying to probe for a new time that might work better for him but not make it worse for others
<cpaelzer> looking at the poll the one with the highest amount of acks (4 full, 1 kind of ok)
<cpaelzer> is 90 minutes after the current slot
<cpaelzer> doko: you are not in this poll yet, could you let us know if this time works for you?
<cpaelzer> I see didrocks, ddstreet, jamespage, sarnold and myself
<jamespage> I'd forgotten about that
<jamespage> +90 mins is OK with me
<cpaelzer> jamespage: you have added your answers to the poll
<cpaelzer> so you only forgot that you already did that :-)
<cpaelzer> doko: I'll be sharing the poll of sarnold once again with you na query
<cpaelzer> let us go on from here - if doko arrives before the meeting is over we can make a decision
<cpaelzer> otherwise I'd wait another week to really know
<cpaelzer> before changing the meeting time every week ... :-)
<cpaelzer> actions done (or postponed)
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cpaelzer> we ignroe maas
<cpaelzer> we have talked about apport which is a fals positive
<cpaelzer> as it has an alternate dependency
<cpaelzer> let us go through the new ones if anyone has context on them
<cpaelzer> sphinx -> mathjax ?
<cpaelzer> debian-goodies -> a bunch of perl things
<cpaelzer> and another perl in libmoox-struct-perl -> libnamespace-autoclean-perl
<cpaelzer> and fonts-telu ->  fonts-teluguvijayam
<cpaelzer> the latter seems liek a package split
<cpaelzer> all those perl/fonts things are usually managed by foundations and we miss doko atm
<cpaelzer> anyone against keeping this waiting for another week until he is here?
<cpaelzer> python-ecdsa is different, that has an approved MIR already (was in xenial)
<cpaelzer> pulled in by dnspython which is part of the deps of e.g. samba
<cpaelzer> I'll ping on that one to be re-promoted
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> empty for one \o/
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> no recent updates on those either
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> still no response from doko
<cpaelzer> it seems no new work to distribute "right now" came in this week
 * cpaelzer feels like this becomes a monlogue
<cpaelzer> we will re-visit the time change next week once we have dko's answer as well
<cpaelzer> anything else?
 * cpaelzer is a lonely log-filler :-/
<cpaelzer> but we are doen for today
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: doko: sarnold: joeubuntu: jamespage: didrocks: anything to add ?
<jamespage> nowt from me
<joeubuntu> Not here.
<cpaelzer> I think I need to add some fast-path to the meeting in case lists and such are empty
<cpaelzer> let me tinhk about it until next time
<cpaelzer> cu next week
<joeubuntu> bye all!
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May  5 13:22:17 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-05-05-13.01.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-05-07
<luna_> Any Ubuntu translators meeting today in 7 minutes?
<rs2009> In 2 minutes, now
<rs2009> The Foundations one?
<sil2100> Yes, we have our weekly meeting in a minute now
<luna_> rs2009: ah i have a translators one in my calendar but maybe thats an old entry sent an email to the right people, sorry for bothering
<rs2009> I have Translators in my Calendar, too :)
<rbalint> o/
<sil2100> o/
<slyon> o/
<xnox> ooo
<xnox> aaaa
 * xnox ponders who rs2009 is
<xnox> hi there!
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May  7 15:02:06 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
<bdmurray> juliank sil2100 tdaitx mwhudson doko vorlon xnox waveform bdmurray slyon rbalint infinity
<bdmurray> juliank: !
<juliank> (mostly reconstructed from archive@ubuntu.com emails...)
<juliank> apr 30:
<juliank> * fix apport to test depend on python3-twisted instead of python-twisted-core
<juliank> * add groovy to python-apt templates
<juliank> * merge keyutils
<juliank> * sync ncurses (we dropped our delta in focal [multlib, etc] in focal, was that on purpose?)
<juliank> * merge xfsprogs
<juliank> * python-apt 2.1.3
<juliank> * fixed cargo not to install .crates2.json and rebuild affected packages (#1868517)
<juliank> may 07:
<juliank> * rebuild more rust packages to get rid of .crates2.json in /usr/lib/cargo as opposed to /usr
<juliank> * apt 2.1.0 and 2.0.3
<juliank> * reviewed new maas deb (more changes to snap transition)
<juliank> * raised concerns on https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/python-apt/-/merge_requests/43
<juliank> (done, nothing before apr 30 I remember right now)
<rs2009> xnox: I'm not sure if you have seen me before, but many do know me, including popey and tsimonq2 :)
<juliank> sil2100:
<sil2100> Skip, not ready yet
<tdaitx> Short week: halfday on Thu, holiday on Friday
<tdaitx> * LP: #1798369 focal now fails with apt-clone error
<tdaitx> * combing jck failures
<tdaitx>   - jck does not start configure services
<tdaitx>   - doing it manually before the run
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1798369 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Eoan) "Reinstall Ubuntu (with preserving existing data) shows error message due to "Could not get lock /target/var/cache/apt/archives/lock"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798369
<tdaitx> * reproduced LP: #1838740 in bionic, eoan, and focal
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1838740 in openjdk-lts (Ubuntu Focal) "libjawt.so inconsistency lets JVM crash" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838740
<tdaitx>   - works fine in an eoan chroot (focal host)
<tdaitx> (done)
<rs2009> are we holding the community council?
<bdmurray> doko:
<xnox> rs2009:  no we are not =) this is Ubuntu Foundations meeting
<rs2009> referring to the one at 5pm
<rs2009> xnox: Have got that one in my calender at 5PM :)
<xnox> rs2009:  it's at the afternoon tea o'clock UK time meeting, and was at this timeslot since forever. I don't know what happens here at 5pm =) sorry. It might be CC, i don't know really.
<doko> - archive opening tasks
<doko> - accepted binary new packages, built for all archs, are entirely new packages
<doko> - GCC updates, enabling -mtune=z15
<doko> - Backport fix for GCC ICE with -mtune=z15
<doko> - Python 3.8.3 rc1
<doko> - packaged cvise and pebble
<doko> - GCC 10.1.0 release
<doko> - some talks about organizing +1 maintenance
<doko> - taking two sick leave days this week.
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<xnox> doko:  oooh, backport GCC ICE => how far back? will it land in focal too?
<vorlon>  * nvidia focal release post-mortem and plan to prevent future skew
<vorlon>  * UEFI signing key rotation
<vorlon>  * hitting packages in -proposed with sticks
<vorlon>  * i386 rebootstrapping of inkscape in groovy
<vorlon> (done)
<bdmurray> xnox:
 * xnox ponders why we need inkscape on i386 => plugins?
<xnox> 7th May:
<xnox> working on interactive netboot
<xnox> UC20 beta launch planning updates to initrd/core/pc-gadget
<xnox> release-upgrader change landed, horay
<xnox> product sprint last week
<xnox> off tomorrow, 75 years anniversary of VE day
<xnox> done
<doko> xnox: yes, get gcc-10 and gcc-9 stabilized, make a test rebuild for main, and backport
<bdmurray> waveform:
<xnox> doko:  awesome! you are the best.
<sil2100> I'm ready if anything
<waveform> * Released Focal (now seems like ages ago!) ... with working USB ports! \o/
<waveform> * Experimented with camera integration in Classic (while playing around with a beta of the new Pi HQ camera)
<waveform> * Investigated LP: #1861128 again as apparently my work-around isn't working around the delay (came up on the forums)
<waveform> * Investigated https://github.com/snapcore/pi-gadget/issues/47 while working on bumping u-boot revision (partially PRE_ENV, partially pointless heading outputs), but ran into git-ubuntu issues
<waveform> * Working on merge of u-boot (LP: #1877122), but I broke git-ubuntu :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861128 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "getty.target starts before cloud-config is done" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861128
<waveform> * Investigated LP: #1870346 - cloud-init team now think it's netplan related
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1877122 in u-boot (Ubuntu) "Merge u-boot 2020.04 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1877122
<waveform> * ... but not fixed by LP: #1870410; attempting to build image with "full" fix for LP: #1874377 to see if that fixes it ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1870346 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "Wifi configuration" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870346
<waveform> * ... it didn't
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1870410 in systemd (Ubuntu Focal) "wireless does not work on boot on RPi 3s" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870410
<waveform> * ... continuing investigation this week with slyon (and finally getting somewhere :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1874377 in netplan.io (Ubuntu Focal) "Netplan does not connect to Wireless after `sudo netplan apply` until reboot" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874377
<waveform> * Tested uc20 armhf beta images
<waveform> * Helped debugging of new pi-bluetooth snap
<waveform> * Proposed merge of flash-kernel 3.100 (LP: #1876922)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1876922 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu) "Merge flash-kernel 3.100 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876922
<waveform> * Comparing our kernel config to Raspbian's to see what else we're missing (Juerg has already noted V3D DRM is lacking)
<waveform> * Replied to a bunch of forum posts, wrote another post about pibootctl (and future config plans)
<waveform> (done)
<bdmurray> this is since our last meeting
<bdmurray> updated daisy and errors code for 20.04 LTS release and groovy
<bdmurray> uploaded update-manager w/o ubuntu-support-status
<bdmurray> uploaded update-manager w/ ubuntu-security-status
<bdmurray> sponsored fix for LP: #1873670
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1873670 in python-mapnik (Ubuntu) "python3-mapnik not working due to stale icu65: refernces " [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1873670
<rs2009> I have built Ubuntu Unity Remix 20.04. This remix is for the people who believe that the old Unity7 DE should still be used. There are many people who use Xenial only because it has Unity7. Iâve created this distribution to solve that problem. This will encourage people to upgrade to Focal.
<bdmurray> tested Raspberry Pi images
<bdmurray> testing systemd-timesyncd / chrony issue
<bdmurray> review of xnox's u-r-u changes for chrony
<bdmurray> sent Focal Final Freeze announcement email
<rs2009> - issues in LightDM
<juliank> rs2009: please stop crashing this meeting, talk elsewhere
<bdmurray> 20.04 LTS release work
<bdmurray> reported gnome-initial-setup bug LP: #1874148
<bdmurray> sponsored SRU fixing LP: #1874469
<bdmurray> SRU review of debootstrap
<bdmurray> updated bugbot for python3 / commented on old SRU bugs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1797565 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1874148 Can't exit via global menu "Quit" option" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1797565
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1874469 in update-manager (Ubuntu Focal) "[SRU] update-manger intermittently hangs during snap updates" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874469
<bdmurray> setup rls-gg reports
<bdmurray> reviewed RPi download stats / updated graph
<bdmurray> submitted RT #125672 re offical mirrors w/o Focal
<bdmurray> uploaded, verified u-r-u fixing LP: #1796940 for 16.04
<bdmurray> uploaded, verified u-r-u fixing LP: #1872902 for 18.04, 19.10
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1796940 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Xenial) "ubuntu-release-upgrader-core missing a dependency" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796940
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1872902 in germinate (Ubuntu Focal) "Upgrade to Focal now removes chrony" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872902
<bdmurray> uploaded apport fixing LP: #1876952, LP: #1876945, LP: #1872059
<bdmurray> uploaded a 20.04 LTS SRU which fix the above bugs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1876952 in apport (Ubuntu Focal) "missing a package hook for linux-raspi and linux-raspi2" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1876945 in apport (Ubuntu Focal) "collect '/.disk/info' from RPi preinstalled systems" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876945
<bdmurray> â done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1872059 in apport (Ubuntu Focal) "missing hardware/runtime info when reporing linux-firmware bugs via apport" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872059
<bdmurray> slyon:
<slyon> weeks before:
<slyon> - review & merge netplan PR for documentation fixes
<slyon> - working on netplan's NetworkManager read/write plugin
<slyon>   * Wake-On-WLan
<slyon>   * Wake-On-Lan
<slyon>   * WiFi band/channel/bssid
<slyon>   * Handling of unkonwn interface names
<slyon>   * IP4/6 routes
<slyon>   * IP4/6 routing-policy
<slyon>   * Basic bond settings
<slyon>   * Basic VLan settings
<slyon> - ISO testing of pre-release focal builds
<slyon> - investigated bug #1874377
<ubottu> bug 1874377 in netplan.io (Ubuntu Focal) "Netplan does not connect to Wireless after `sudo netplan apply` until reboot" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874377
<slyon>   * worked on a fix for this problem, available via:
<slyon>     https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/netplan/pull/133
<slyon> this week:
<slyon> - Preparing netplan.io 0.99-0ubuntu3 SRU for bionic, eoan and focal
<slyon> - SRU test verification for bug #1874377 (eoan & focal on RPi3)
<slyon> - SRU test verification for bug #1871825 (bionic, eoan & focal)
<slyon>   * Awaiting approval by SRU team
<ubottu> bug 1871825 in netplan "[FFe] Update to netplan.io 0.99" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871825
<slyon> - Preparing NetworkManager snap patch (netplan-plugin) for initial testing
<slyon>   * Building NetworkManager 1.22 snap with netplan-readwrite-plugin
<slyon> - Drafting a netplan try-commit feature improvement
<slyon>   * Can be used for programatic 'netplan try' calls, e.g. by snapd
<slyon> - Debugging of cloud-init/wifi for bug #1870346
<ubottu> bug 1870346 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "Wifi configuration" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870346
<slyon> (done)
<rs2009> LightDM's login prompt hides the text field for password in Ubuntu sometimes.
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * uploads via Debian: wireshark 3.2.3
<rbalint> * release week
<rbalint> * systemd: multiple uploads, cooking the next for groovy
<rbalint> * merges: munin
<rbalint> * syncs: postgresql-pgmp
<rbalint> * uploads via Debian: cpluff
<rbalint> (done)
<vorlon> rs2009: we're in the middle of a meeting here; this is not the right place for this conversation
<vorlon> rs2009: you may want to try #ubuntu-devel
<bdmurray> any questions on the lightning round?
<sil2100> rs2009: you can stay of course if you have things to bring up with the Ubuntu Foundations team specifically, but that would be in the AOB section
<sil2100> bdmurray: me!
<sil2100> - Was off on Friday
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Package sponsoring for various teams and people
<sil2100> - netplan:
<sil2100>   * Sponsoring 0.99 SRU backports for Lukas
<sil2100>   * Working on the backlog
<sil2100>   * Review of the OpenVSwitch spec, started planning work
<sil2100>   * Started review of the NM read-write plugin
<sil2100> - Working on some image building things
<sil2100>   * Lots of related discussions
<sil2100>   * More work coming
<sil2100> - Work on langpack-o-matic, enabling weekly PPA builds, preparing for Ukrainian refresh
<sil2100> - Fixed 'current' promotion of uc20 images (i.e. disabling it)
<sil2100> - Helping out a bit with UC20
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> okay, did we miss anybody?
<bdmurray> moving on then
<rs2009> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1866959
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1866959 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Password - No Place" [Undecided,New]
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<xnox> rs2009:  that is not appropriate for Ubuntu Foundations, we do not work on any remixes, flavours, or desktops at all. We only deal with things that all flavours share as a base.
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> ff, not gg?
<xnox> both?
<bdmurray> We could look at gg but I didn't see much there / thought we should focus on ff this week
<vorlon> ok
<rs2009> xnox: hmm, basing on lightdm in the ubuntu source, I thought it would count in here?
<bdmurray> bug 1874272
<ubottu> bug 1874272 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Stage "searching for obsolete software" takes a very long time (30 minutes)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874272
<bdmurray> unfortunately this doesn't seem specific to jibel
<xnox> rs2009:  it never did. lightdm used to be #ubuntu-desktop thing. There is no lighdm on Ubuntu Server nor on Ubuntu Core. Thus is out of scope for Foundations. We work on bootloaders and toolchains.
<rs2009> ah, ok
<bdmurray> So this seems worth taking / carding
<bdmurray> juliank: Do you have any idea what that might be about?
<rs2009> fine in AOB?
<juliank> Not yet
<juliank> rs2009: no
<bdmurray> bug 1875107
<ubottu> bug 1875107 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "unable to upgrade with lubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-desktop installed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875107
<vorlon> rs2009: it's not for Foundations, and this is a Foundations meeting; please try #ubuntu-devel
<bdmurray> vorlon did you at one point in time say upgrading with mutliple metapackages isn't supported?
<vorlon> bdmurray: I can't recall saying that
<vorlon> it might imply some undefined behavior though wrt snap transitions
<vorlon> maybe that was the context of the conversation?
<bdmurray> I think it would have been pre-snap but regardless this seems easily fixable.
<juliank> I don't think anybody is testing multi meta stuff, though?
<juliank> but fixing it best-effort seems fine?
<bdmurray> juliank: lots of users are!
<xnox> rs2009: please join /j #ubuntu-devel and we can talk there. please stop posting here.
<bdmurray> bug 1874091 - xnox can you elaborate a bit on this ubg?
<ubottu> bug 1874091 in ubuntu-drivers-common (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-release-upgrader should use ubuntu-drivers and migrate people from nvidia-dkms to l-r-m" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874091
<xnox> bdmurray:  yes, we used to install nvidia badly
<xnox> bdmurray:  and where possible we should "remove nvidia-dkms & install linux-modules-nvidia" instead.
<juliank> +1
<bdmurray> xnox: what upgrade path is this for? B to F? E to F?
<xnox> bdmurray:  i don't know if we already do that in release-upgrader or not, i.e. "rerun ubuntu-drivers and make it do things to correct stuff"
<vorlon> bdmurray: I'm having a hard time following this meeting via http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs, I see a lot of high bugs there that we haven't discussed, and I also see bugs listed there which are closed in LP (LP: #1870071).  is this error on my end?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1870071 in pyhamcrest (Ubuntu) "pyhamcrest ftbfs (dep-wait on removed python-pytest-cov)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870071
<xnox> bdmurray:  any to F
<bdmurray> vorlon: I just closed 1870071 before the meeting
<vorlon> ah ok
<xnox> vorlon:  that one was closed 33 minutes ago.... i guess the report is not that quick
<bdmurray> xnox: and what about seb's question re ubuntu-drivers-common?
<bdmurray> vorlon: I'm using a special brian sort method
<xnox> bdmurray:  because we calculate the upgrade, we can't just run "ubuntu-drivers install". I think that needs a no-op option, or like make `ubuntu-drivers list` support `--package-list` option
<vorlon> bdmurray: please add a button for this sort order to the js ;-)
<xnox> bdmurray:  such that we can then add those packages to our calculation first
<xnox> bdmurray:  and like have an option to ubuntu-drivers to remove things too.
<xnox> bdmurray:  i guess i should type all of that in that bug
<bdmurray> xnox: Could you add that to the bug?
<bdmurray> yes please
<xnox> ok
<bdmurray> bug 1876151
<ubottu> bug 1876151 in installation-guide (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Documentation says 20.04 can be installed on i386" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876151
<bdmurray> is the installation-guide really ours?
<vorlon> it should maybe be server nowadays
<vorlon> but if the package says it's ours we should probably drive it in the meantime
<bdmurray> Is updating it / checking that it has been updated be part of a release checklist?
<vorlon> no
<vorlon> it's also pretty d-i-specific
<vorlon> IIRC
<bdmurray> okay, so we should target and card that one?
<vorlon> yeah
<vorlon> interestingly, installation-guide also just came up on #ubuntu-release
<bdmurray> bug 1871641
<ubottu> bug 1871641 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu never finishes booting: A start job is running for Hold until boot process finishes up (3min 7s / no limit) -- removing 'splash' kernel parm fixes it" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871641
<vorlon> so I will also try to figure out who owns the fact that it's being published on help.ubuntuc.om
<xnox> vorlon:  the publication on help.ubuntu.com used to be driven by documentation person with like mpt years ago, and then later got updated by some community person i think.
<xnox> (timeframe 'within last 6 years')
<vorlon> bdmurray: Desktop Team has been driving a lot of the plymouth work this cycle, can we ask them to prioritize this one?
<xnox> vorlon:  and maybe frank helped to improve s390x portions of that
<vorlon> well I've uploaded the installation-guide in the not-too-distant past, but I don't want to do it again
<bdmurray> vorlon: should they also be subscribed to the package then?
<vorlon> bdmurray: plymouth?  yeah at this point
<bdmurray> okay, I'll follow up with them
<xnox> "The bug occurs when an external monitor is plugged in."
<xnox> ouch
<bdmurray> bug 1875918
<ubottu> bug 1875918 in openjdk-lts (Ubuntu) "openjdk crash: jdk11+eclipse+jformdesigner" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875918
<tdaitx> I was looking at it now, will see if I can reproduce it
<bdmurray> tdaitx: okay, if you can let us know so we can decide about carding it
<bdmurray> vorlon: are there some other bugs you wanted to look at?
<tdaitx> ok
<vorlon> bdmurray: I see bugs marked 'high' on systemd and netplan, shouldn't we be taking decisions on these?
<vorlon> LP: #1861941, LP: #1838329, LP: #1876884
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861941 in linux (Ubuntu) "bcache by-uuid links disappear after mounting bcache0" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861941
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1838329 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Cryptswap periodically fails to mount at boot due to missing a udev notification" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838329
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1876884 in netplan.io (Ubuntu) "netplan using incorrect renderer" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876884
<rbalint> i got this assigned by xnox, but did not have a card yet
<xnox> hm
<bdmurray> is it clear that the work is in systemd?
<rbalint> bdmurray, looks like in udeb
<rbalint> udev
<xnox> ah, that gem, yes
<xnox> rbalint:  we suspect that there is fuzzy matching done on /by-uuid/ symlinks
<rbalint> i haved got to fully triaging it yet
<bdmurray> ð
<xnox> rbalint:  and that /bcache/by-uuid/ symlinks are purged, when purging /disk/by-uuid/ symlinks due to udev retriggering device.
<bdmurray> okay, so let's target and card that
<bdmurray> should the card jump the queue though if you are looking at it?
<rbalint> bdmurray, i'm not sure about the prio
<mclemenceau> rbalint want me to card it?
<rbalint> mclemenceau, please
<bdmurray> so then the cryptswap one
<bdmurray> It looks like there is fix that we could include as a distro patch
<vorlon> ddstreet is working on it and thinks it should be fixed in a different package than the patch
<rbalint> +1
<vorlon> ah, no, that is in systemd still
<rbalint> +1 for carding :-)
<vorlon> seems appropriate to target, but let him work through it?
<rbalint> ok
<bdmurray> maybe somebody could ping the reporter while we have the bug open
<bdmurray> then the netplan one
<slyon> still trying to grasp whats going on there... seems like a really basic setup
<rbalint> bdmurray, LP: #1874494 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1874494 in netplan.io (Ubuntu) "netplan apply does not remove systemd service for wlan0 after config removed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874494
<bdmurray> rbalint: bug 1876884 is the one steve mentioned
<ubottu> bug 1876884 in netplan.io (Ubuntu) "netplan using incorrect renderer" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876884
<vorlon> seems straightforward that we should take it and card it
<bdmurray> okay
<slyon> +1
<vorlon> (doing)
<bdmurray> we'd talked about fixing bug 1874494
<ubottu> bug 1874494 in netplan.io (Ubuntu) "netplan apply does not remove systemd service for wlan0 after config removed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874494
<bdmurray> correct slyon?
<vorlon> if milestone is set, seems like there's already a decision and we should follow through?
<bdmurray> yeah
<slyon> yes, I think we should card this.
<mclemenceau> got it
<slyon> To investigate further
<xnox> slyon:  "incorrect renderer" => it feels like initramfs is used to setup netwokring on boot.
<xnox> slyon:  i.e. ip=dhcp, which on ubuntu generate netplan.
<vorlon> is that everything for bugs?
<vorlon> because devel-proposed also needs a bit of love :)
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<slyon> xnox, thanks I'll check that
<vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/groovy/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> 40 packages needing attention, 7 packages not yet considered late
<vorlon> pkg-config seems to have some related cross-arch regressions, so needs investigating
<rbalint> i can take that
<vorlon> rbalint: would you like.. ok :)
<vorlon> apt-clone blocking python-apt
<vorlon> juliank: ^^ ?
<juliank> not sure
<juliank> will investigate
<vorlon> not sure if you can take it?
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> libclone-perl is i386 bootstrapping, I'll get on it
<vorlon> libmoo-perl is autopkgtest waiting; libmoox-struct-perl looks like an MIR issue
<vorlon> doko: ^^ do you want to fast-track the perl promotion?
<vorlon> dbus-python blocked by armhf autopkgtest regressions, will retry
<vorlon> dnspython is a "candidate" but not going, so someone should look
<vorlon> bdmurray: ^^ ?
<bdmurray> okay
<vorlon> lxml is a candidate but not migrating, needs investigating. xnox?
<xnox> ok
<vorlon> python-packaging, I think I just unblocked via NBS removals; I'll take this one to follow through on if necessary
<vorlon> re2 is part of a transition, so related packages need sorted so it can migrate. tdaitx ?
<vorlon> python-webencodings, I don't know what's holding that up.  waveform ?
<waveform> vorlon, no idea - but I can take a look?
<vorlon> waveform: thanks
<vorlon> erlang has autopkgtest regressions - sil2100?
<sil2100> vorlon: on it!
<tdaitx> vorlon: ok, I will take it
<waveform> the ubuntu-image one looks like it's the sfdisk missing thing (is that fixed?)
<vorlon> vim, build failures, I'll take a look
<vorlon> python-httplib2, candidate but not migrating - slyon can you look into this? (ask sil2100 or myself if you need help orienting)
<slyon> vorlon, sure!
<vorlon> we're at time; did I miss giving anyone a package to look at?
<sil2100> I think slyon knows his way around autopkgtests now! But in case you need sponsoring anything (or retries or such), just give me a sign
<slyon> will do!
<vorlon> (I'm not going to go through the whole list this week, a lot of these are going to shake out before next week anyway)
<rbalint> i take procps
<vorlon> ok, I think I already retried the autopkgtest
<doko> vorlon: ok, doing perl
<vorlon> bdmurray: so I think that's it
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> okay if nothing else
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May  7 16:05:15 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-05-07-15.02.moin.txt
<rbalint> o/
<slyon> o/
<xnox> vorlon:  lxml migration https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/spyne/+bug/1877406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1877406 in lxml (Ubuntu) "RM spyne depends on dropped python-lxml" [Undecided,Incomplete]
