#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-28
<jrwren> where are you?
<rick_h_> alabama
<rick_h_> at some Auburn U hotel that's fancy as all get out
<jrwren> hatiesburg.
<jrwren> oh, Auburn.
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> kind of crazy, never flown into one state to arrive at another (ATL->Auburn)
<jrwren> ha! that is different.
<jrwren> cab from ATL to Auburn?
<jrwren> how long of a drive?
<rick_h_> rental car, here all week about 1:40
<jrwren> what ya doing there?
<rick_h_> supposed to have an intro sprint with the new boss
<rick_h_> but his mother died this weekend, so now working on my own for a couple of days and then sprint with him rest of week after that I think
<jrwren> damn, sucks about his mom.
<rick_h_> yea, definitely
<rick_h_> guess she's been sick a while and he's been in/out for months.
<rick_h_> but yea,I feel kind of rotten coming down and all
<snap-l> Evening
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh man, sorry to hear that re: your boss' mom
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, bad stuff
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, bad stuff
<rick_h_> gah, bad network connection here
<jrwren> how was the pizza?
<snap-l> Good morning
<Wolfger> morning
<brousch> yessir
<snap-l> Apparently Apress' $15 sale is crushing the site
<brousch> i saw 60% off the readable code book
<brousch> and designing mobile interfaces
<Wolfger> Javascript: The Definitive Guide, or Javascript: The Good Parts? Not sure which sounds better...
<Wolfger> Art of Readable Code sounds like a winner.
<snap-l> Well, The Good Parts is a great way to learn best practices about Java
<snap-l> Script
<snap-l> not sure why I hit return too early. :)
<snap-l> Definitive Guide is a great reference manual
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> cranky is coming to down...
<brousch> rick_h_'s wallet is probably aching already
<rick_h_> nope, staying away
<brousch> cranky the crane?
<rick_h_> something like that
<Wolfger> cranky the shaft?
<rick_h_> stupid meeting room isn't ready until 8, asked if they coule move it up to 7am all week, confused the heck out of the poor girl
<brousch> mr. crankypants?
<rick_h_> yea, well I kind of think understanding engligh is a requirement for hotel front desk work
<snap-l> That's you're problem right there.
<snap-l> Alabammers speak southern, not Englush. P)
<brousch> try saying it again, but with a mouth harp
<rick_h_> no, she wasn't from around here
<rick_h_> but thanks for the help
<rick_h_> I'm going to be quiet before I set of alarm bells
<snap-l> The rayen in spayen flaws rawtly awn the playen
<snap-l> Got the nook last night
<brousch> color?
<snap-l> Tablet
<brousch> d00d
<snap-l> JoDee got it for me for Christmas, but couldn't wait to give it to me.
<brousch> root that sexy beast yet?
<snap-l> No, I have to be gentle with it. :)
<Wolfger> Heh
<Wolfger> How do you like it so far? Killed lots of pigs yet? ;-)
<brousch> sure, sure, break it in gently for a while, then root the heck out of it
<snap-l> Wolfger: Funny enough, I haven't installed Angry Birds on it yet.
<snap-l> The reader portion is very good
<snap-l> lots better than what was on the color
<snap-l> they finally got it right.
<brousch> the reader was good on the color
<snap-l> It's much improved on the Tablet
<brousch> just not good enough to keep me from all of the CM goodness
<snap-l> I hope they give you an upgrade
<brousch> pretty pointless since i don't use it
<brousch> i just use the Nook App from the android market
<brousch> adobe reader works well for pdf
<snap-l> brb for kernel upgrade
<brousch> someone buy this for me for xmas please http://dvice.com/archives/2011/11/asus-quad-core.php
<brousch> i don't even have a quad core computer and now tablets have it?
<snap-l> brousch: Pretty soon you'll be able to compile C programs in no time on your tablet
<snap-l> of course, your battery life will be around 15 seconds, so it better be "Hello World"
<Wolfger> ooh, that's a pretty tablet
<Wolfger> with optional keyboard
<snap-l> http://net.tutsplus.com/articles/editorials/are-jquery-users-fools/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nettuts+%28Nettuts%2B%29
<snap-l> rick_h_: ^^ ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, saw that one this weekend
<Wolfger> So I see Google updated its names policy to allow for Mononyms, if you use a "." for your last name and include a photo ID. :-p
<snap-l> rick_h_: I'm slow. :)
<rick_h_> gave it a scan, it's a few points, but I don't think it's greatly written
<rick_h_> but at least I don't feel alone out there :P
<Wolfger> and so I changed my last name to "." as they tell me to, and the auto-response is that this doesn't adhere to the names policy.
<snap-l> YOU ARE NOT ALONE
<snap-l> Wolfger: Great. :(
<Wolfger> I'm still waiting for them to not require real names as they announced they would well over a month ago :-(
<snap-l> WEll, at lease they have some semblance of backtracking
<snap-l> I'm sure Cher, Shakira, and Madonna are pleased as munch
<snap-l> punch, even.
<Wolfger> or, barring that, for them to disable my G+ as I told them to even longer ago...
<Wolfger> The funniest thing is that when I go to my profile page, there is a banner that says "Wolfger - is using Google+. Join Google+ to connect with the people who matter most."
<Wolfger> Liars.
<Wolfger> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/122068/what-do-neglected-oreilly-book-topics-tell-us-about-that-topic bwahahahah
<snap-l> n/url
<snap-l> Are you fucking kidding me?
<snap-l> I added a comment.
<Wolfger> ++
<Wolfger> Of course, I also ++'d the conspiracy comment
<snap-l> Yeah, me too
<Wolfger> p.se... Your daily dose of humor that wasn't intended to be humor.
<rick_h_> so anyone know how I can get the full command being run I see in ps?
<rick_h_> it's too long and gets truncated
<brousch> ps -aux | cat
<snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/122074/whats-the-best-chair-for-sitting-at-the-computer-and-developing
<rick_h_> brousch: doh, pipe ftw
 * snap-l gets ready  to burn karma. ;)
<rick_h_> stand up!
<rick_h_> <3 my stand up desk
<rick_h_> and you're not getting it for $200
<rick_h_> try 4x that
<snap-l> rick_h_: No kidding. :)
<brousch> $800 for a desk?
<snap-l> brousch: $800 for a desk that goes up and down
<Wolfger> rick_h_: what a racket.... no-chair costs more than chair?
<snap-l> hah, got closed.
<Wolfger> decisions, decisions... my membership in Bug Squad is about to expire.
<rick_h_> no, $800 for a chair
<rick_h_> the desk is half that, which is why i went desk vs chair
<rick_h_> well, a little over half that I guess once I put a top on it and shipped it
<Wolfger> $800 is way too much for a chair
<snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/742/good-furniture-for-programmers
<rick_h_> yea, well I spent $400 ona chair and still not happy with it
<Wolfger> I got chairs in the $100-200 range at staples, with optional 3-year warranty.
<Wolfger> Casters broke, called in the warranty, they didn't even bother trying to fix, just sent me a staples gift card for the replacement cost on the chair.
<rick_h_> yea, they suck, sorry. I've gone through a half dozen chairs over the last 10 years
<rick_h_> this last one finally lastd a few years, but still not comfy enough for full work day
<rick_h_> lol
<Wolfger> which I used to buy new casters that I installed myself, and I don't remember what else. But it was nice :-)
<rick_h_> it's less about what will hold your butt, and more about a chair that's ergo correct so you can keep typing into your 60s
<rick_h_> while walking in an upright position
<brousch> we bought refurbs for $150/ea
<Wolfger> meh. Walking upright is over-rated :-)
<brousch> they've been nice for 5 years
<Wolfger> I was actually quite happy with my cheap Staples chair, until the arm cushion got ripped.
<Wolfger> It was a far better chair than what I'm forced to deal with at work every damned day
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://www.amazon.com/Office-Star-Ergonomically-Designed-Mahogany/dp/B002L15NS0/ref=sr_1_23?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1322494815&sr=1-23 are pretty cool
<rick_h_> should try that for a bit
<Wolfger> the problem with those chairs is the same problem I have with standing desks...
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ONBT4O/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&redirect=true is what I got back in 2007
<Wolfger> No place to recline :-)
<rick_h_> it's been nice for that long, but needs replacing bad now
<brousch> yeah, i love my recline
<rick_h_> recline isn't for coding
<rick_h_> go to your living room then :P
<Wolfger> recline is for when you're *not* busy, granted, but it's nice to be able to do when you have time to relax.
<Wolfger> I also like to recline while talking to somebody who's bugging me at my desk
<brousch> yeah, i don't code for 9 hours then go home
<rick_h_> ouch, snap-l is shut down in a hurry
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I suck. :)
<snap-l> It was mostly a joke posting
<snap-l> WHat the fuck?
<snap-l> Just got a dump of buzz traffic in my mail
<brousch> snap-l: me too
<brousch> old stuff
<snap-l> Yeah, really old stuff
<brousch> hm, i think wolfger commented in each one of them
<brousch> probably his fault
<snap-l> Yeah, I wonder if there was a wolfgerjam
<Wolfger> could be
<Wolfger> maybe my G+ got reinstated?
<brousch> but this was buzz stuff
<Wolfger> I actually quit using Buzz some time ago when suddenly the only person I was following was gamerchick
<brousch> :P
<Wolfger> brousch: I lost the ability to comment on Buzz posts due to G+
<Wolfger> and the profile fiasco
<Wolfger> sweet! I can comment in Buzz again!
<Wolfger> and I'm back to "following 53 people"
<snap-l> Wolfger: Are things getting sorted out in the Google front?
<Wolfger> Woot. I publicly +1'd something in Reader and didn't get an error!
<snap-l> rick_h_: Did a console.log on 'this" under Node. Now I understand why you slapped my hand for using it in that script I was writing for Fudge dice.
<snap-l> Definitely not the same as Python's "this"
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: oh heh
<Wolfger> of course, the Plus site itself is still blocked by Chrysler...
<rick_h_> well all depends on what "this" is
<rick_h_> this is all a matter of scope in JS
<snap-l> Exactly
<snap-l> Just a bad habit to get into
<rick_h_> well console.log is all good
<rick_h_> I don't recall what the issue I "slapped" your hand about tbh
<rick_h_> but cool if it makes sense :)
<snap-l> I used this.variable to house my variables
<snap-l> you changed it to var that = {}; that.value = 0;
<snap-l> etc.
<rick_h_> ah ok
<snap-l> under a function literal.
<Blazeix> http://cloud9ide.posterous.com/vim-mode-for-advanced-editing-in-cloud9-ide
<rick_h_> yea, big win if they can get a decent experience
<snap-l> Awesome
<n0p> rick_h_: you work at launchpad now?
<rick_h_> n0p: yea
<n0p> wow, cool, congrats!
<rick_h_> ty
<rick_h_> down in AL to meet my boss and try to get bootstrapped on some of this crazy stuff
<n0p> ah, cool when did you start?
<rick_h_> couple of weeks ago
<n0p> nice
<n0p> i wanted to ask you about phantomjs, you still playing with it?
<rick_h_> yea, fun stuff, lots to get my head around
<rick_h_> n0p: little bit, I use it for bookie js testing
<n0p> we are looking to replace selenium
<rick_h_> meh, since it doesn't launch browsers, it's not a great replacement
<rick_h_> it's good for an automated test "does it obviously fail"
<rick_h_> but not great for real browser testing
<rick_h_> I use it for testing my bookis.api.js against a server to make sure my api code works
<rick_h_> but I wouldn't use it for interface testing
<n0p> ah, ic
<rick_h_> the new selenium webdriver stuff not making you guys happy?
<n0p> but it does do UI testing?
<n0p> yeah, its not supported in phpunit
<rick_h_> so really, all it does is run JS
<rick_h_> so if your JS tests the UI then you can do it
<rick_h_> but it's really just a dump headless browser
<rick_h_> so to get it to test my JS, I load a .html page that has qunit JS tests on it
<rick_h_> and then parse the output of the html for success/fail
<rick_h_> so you can load up your page using phantomjs and get the page content and then walk through the html if you want I guess
<n0p> hmm
<rick_h_> http://css.dzone.com/articles/phantom-js-alternative
 * n0p reading
<rick_h_> so that article is doing like what you want I think
<rick_h_> but even they kind of ack that it's a bit fundamentally different
<rick_h_> I think phantomjs makes a great "runner" for a test framework
<rick_h_> you could build a test framework around phantomjs, but it's not one itself
<rick_h_> I think that better says what I've been trying to explain
<n0p> yeah, still trying to read it, a few conversations floating around here
<rick_h_> np
<Wolfger> http://perlbuzz.com/2011/11/finding-a-lost-dogs-owner-with-perl-and-wwwmechanize.html
<n0p> heh, good ol mechanize
<rick_h_> off to find local food, let me know if you've got any other ? n0p
<n0p> thanks, and congrats again
<Wolfger> Here is a staffer who should get a stern reprimand, if not lose his job... If he just lets this slide, probably nobody notices. Now it's national news and this girl is gaining all sorts of popularity. http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/28/us/kansas-high-schooler-tweet/index.html
<brousch> has anyone heard of this before? it looks like tons of open source programs (i.e. vim)  on android http://nookdevs.com/Optware_for_Android
<greg-g> brousch: whoa, you can run irssi on your nook! :)
<brousch> yeah, that is targetted at nook color, but i think you can do it on mosy anything
<greg-g> awesome
<Wolfger> "What are you playing, Angry Birds?"  "No. Nethack."
<_stink_> o/o/
<Wolfger> Apache seems like overkill...
<brousch> samba?
<Wolfger> "What are you reading?"  "Server logs. People from 13 different countries have visited my Nook."
<brousch> perl 5.10.0-6
<Wolfger> \o/
<brousch> alot of useless stuff like that
<brousch> :-D
<brousch> php
<rick_h_> your own wordpress?
<rick_h_> or launchpad instance! :P
<brousch> postgresql 8.2.13-2
<greg-g> rick_h_: har har! doesn't LP take 3 servers to setup correctly to just test it? :P
<Wolfger> there you go, rick_h_. A business case for Canonical to buy you a Nook tablet :-)
<rick_h_> greg-g: only 3? :P
<greg-g> I figured they were making improvements on community involvement, I guess not ;)
<brousch> python 2.5 2.6 and 2.7
<greg-g> seriously though rick_h_, do you have something like a Canonical-paid aws account for testing LP?
<rick_h_> greg-g: no, we run out test suite on AWS and I'm supposed to be able to expense the ec2 time on there
<brousch> zsh 4.3.10-1
<rick_h_> but nothing from them to rnu on. I run on my laptop tbh
<greg-g> rick_h_: ah, ok
<greg-g> by "I'm supposed to be able to expense the ec2 time" you mean you have to have a good reason why you used 20 minutes to do X?
<brousch> zsh+git+python rick_h_ could live on this
<rick_h_> greg-g: well I guess I need to expense it via paper that says "I spent 40hrs of ec2 running LP tests so please write me a check"
<rick_h_> I've not been there a month yet to find out
<greg-g> ah, gotcha
<rick_h_> but there's a built in test runner (tests take 3-4hrs to run)
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> that starts up an ec2 instance and rnus all tests, reports to the rest of the infrastructure
<jjesse> rick_h_,  you need a credit card that gives you mileage or points
<jjesse> to use as your work expenses :)
<rick_h_> jjesse: got it
<jjesse> so check = miles :)
<rick_h_> and yes, will be using that for stuff. Still working on getting it used
<jjesse> what happened to your laptop bag?  i think you posted TSA complained about it?
<rick_h_> jjesse: oh just that everyone's cranking through and my bag gets scanned back/forth 20 times
<rick_h_> and they bring over a guy who says "he just wants me to check out all this electronic gear
<rick_h_> so he tears it apart, unpacks it all into 4 more bins, and then I have to wait in line while they rescan it all
<rick_h_> no one else called out anywhere, so of course I've got enough silicon in my laptop bag to set off alarms above anyone else on a holiday rush travel day
<greg-g> rick_h_: hahaha, the rick_h_ I know and love
<rick_h_> hey, not my fault I'm bringing a second usb monitor, a pico projector, along with the crap to run this stuff
<_stink_> "what is this?" "it's zsh" "stay here sir while i call my supervisor."
<rick_h_> _stink_: yea, if they ever want me to power on my stuff I'm going to be missing that flight
<brousch> github? what's that, some association for perverted jerks?
<jjesse> wow
<snap-l> rick_h_: I'm pretty sure your awesome setup is a threat to national security.
<jjesse> just build a 2nd partition of windows that you would boot to :)
<rick_h_> jjesse: hey, this ssd disk space is previous, I'm not bothering to install windows :P
<jjesse> yeah i know
<jjesse> i'm now on a SSD as well
<brousch> set up a boot option that just loads a windows desktop png
<greg-g> brousch: hah, there ya go, genius
<rick_h_> "please open word sir"
<rick_h_> oh 23@#$#@$#@
<greg-g> "how's LibreOffice?" "libre-what? that's a french word! KILL HIM!"
<greg-g> ok, I think I went too fast with that joke to the killing
 * greg-g looks around
<greg-g> yep
<_stink_> sorry on the phone with the Feds turning you in.
<brousch> yeah, they would just probe him
<greg-g> _stink_: well played
<_stink_> i guess they're busy, might be a few days.
<_stink_> <3
<jjesse> they are busy building the new tunnel under the white house front lawn :)
<greg-g> ?
<jjesse> you didn't see the article about all the work being done in the front lawn of the white house?
<jjesse> http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/in-the-nations-capital-underground-is-where-its-at/2011/11/22/gIQABFo42N_story.html?tid=sm_btn_googlePlus
<greg-g> me? news?
<greg-g> wait, no pics?
<brousch> it's a secret compound. who would have pix?
<jjesse> yeah i was disappointed as well
<greg-g> at least of the above ground commotion
 * snap-l loves this photo: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/Kenny_G_Miles_Davis.jpg
<snap-l> Miles' expression on his face says it all.
<greg-g> haha
<brousch> sigh, i have failed to install optware for android
<Blazeix> cool article about python: http://mirnazim.org/writings/python-ecosystem-introduction/
<Blazeix> it hits pyflakes/pip/virtualenv/etc. i imagine it almost gets the rick_h_ stamp of approval, but then it includes django.
<Blazeix> oh, fabric, too.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> well I do like to keep my stamp ready
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-29
<greg-g> geez, jca, whats with all the connecting/disconnecting with "excess flood"?
<greg-g> oh
<_stink_> oh?
<greg-g> he's not connected, hence the "jca" ;)
<greg-g> failed tab-complete attempt
 * snap-l has all of the parts and such turned off
<rick_h_> heh, something broke
<rick_h_> always feel a bit strange carrying grocery bags up to a hotel room
<_stink_> hehe
<rick_h_> jjesse: I don't know how you spend so much time traveling
<jjesse> rick_h_,  what do you mean?
<jjesse> its my job and its how i pay the bills
<rick_h_> yea, just everything is a pita when you're on the road
<jjesse> yes it is
<rick_h_> amazing you get stuff done and don't kill anyone along the way :)
<jjesse> you learn to adopt
<jjesse> my wife and i always talk before her bed time, no matter where i am or who i am with, even if i'm out with a client
<rick_h_> yea, but that's tough
<rick_h_> had a google hang out with the boy and wife
<jjesse> nice
<rick_h_> poor guy's all "daddy up please"
<rick_h_> mucho respect you do it
<jjesse> i bet it would be harder just starting out, but Caleb has always know that daddy goes on trips
<jjesse> thanks
<rick_h_> now if only I had a movie rental service I'd relax to a movie...ugh
<jjesse> so i guess he has adopted it
<jjesse> adopted to it i ment
<rick_h_> adapted :)
<rick_h_> gotcha
<jjesse> would be rougher if he didn't now it all the time
<jjesse> good luck
<rick_h_> yea, get new patterns I guess with time
<rick_h_> still, crazy
<jjesse> good luck
<jjesse> after over 5 years of doing it though i don't know if i would want to go back to a normal office job
<rick_h_> jjesse: that's cool
<rick_h_> I like the "idea" of travel
<rick_h_> guess for a work at home guy it's a bit of a culture shock
<jjesse> yeah i bet it is
<jjesse> i've been home the last 3 weeks getting a bit travel itchy :)
<Wolfger> jjesse: s/ travel it//   :-D
<Wolfger> morning party people
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> in the place to be
<brousch> KRS-One attacks
<brousch> no old school in here?
<rick_h_> guess not
<Wolfger> must be a west-side thing
<brousch> buncha lamers
<brousch> now you can really hack your kindle http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200203720
<snap-l> brousch: I only heard KRS-One when I was at Hope
<snap-l> but that's not indicitive.
<Wolfger> OK, guys and gals, get hacking.... http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200203720
<Wolfger> doh'
<Wolfger> brousch: beat me to it
<brousch> u so slow!
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/11/29/open-metalcast-episode-35-turkey-hangover/
<snap-l> brousch: you get a mention in the show-notes for Tyson Boogie. :)
<brousch> woohoo!
 * Wolfger pokes the channel with a sharp stick
<greg-g> does anyone else A) use Unity in 11.10 B) get weird shit with the menus when using your mouse to navigate to a menu item (eg: File -> Open).
<greg-g> My computer gets, on a regular basis (good thing I don't use menus too much), a confusion of what should be displayed. eg: I click on File in Firefox and when I move my mouse down it changes the dropdown menu to the Time/Date widget dropdown, or the Me Menu dropdown
<brousch> i don't remember that happening to me
<brousch> though i did fly into a rage when i tried unity after gnome shell and couldn't find the menus because i forgot they were hidden until mouseover
<greg-g> haha
<Wolfger> that's obscene
<greg-g> am I the only one not excited about google maps indoors?
<brousch> i don't really give a crap about it
<greg-g> awesome
<greg-g> I mean, I even live in the area where there are probably some of the most indoor places mapped, but, I would rather not have yet another reason for people to walk around looking down at their phones and not the world around them
<rick_h_> heh, I'll let you know
<rick_h_> ATL is one of the areas
<rick_h_> so if it helps when I'm out then I'll like it
<rick_h_> if not...whatever
<greg-g> :)
<Wolfger> greg-g: wtf are you talking about? I have no idea what this is. :-p
<Wolfger> Indoor maps on Google? Are they using x-ray satellites now?
<rick_h_> Wolfger: go catch up on rss for a bit :)
<greg-g> http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2011/11/new-frontier-for-google-maps-mapping.html
<Wolfger> gah
<Wolfger> OK, that's pretty cool
<brousch> yeah, after reading the article it is nice
<brousch> i was thinking more indoors street view
<Blazeix> I like that malls are doing it; no more trying to find those dumb little map posts.
<brousch> greg-g: this is what i thought you were taliking about http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2395479,00.asp
<greg-g> brousch: oh, huh, yeah, that's pretty dumb
<Wolfger> yeah, that's lame
<snap-l> Howdy
<snap-l> back from the land of Swedish meatballs. :)
<brousch> and green goop?
<snap-l> green goop?
<ColonelPanic001> green poop
<snap-l> sounds painful
<brousch> green goop http://twitgoo.com/515zkm
<snap-l> That's cranberries with parsley
<brousch> looks like green goop
<brousch> maybe it will make green poop?
<snap-l> maybe
<snap-l> OK, back out. bbl.
<greg-g> busy body today
<krondor> ugh and I thought I could finally get rid of BES servers; http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/29/us-rim-idUSTRE7AS0A720111129
<rick_h_> bah, walking to coffee shop and they'veonly got 6 tables all full
<rick_h_> hippie hangouts ftl
<rick_h_> krondor: didn't you hear? BB is going to turn into a software company
<rick_h_> can't see devices in the US, but hey, we've got enough regulations they can make $$ building services for the real popular smart phones
<krondor> yuck
<greg-g> I'm sad this is a won't fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/deja-dup/+bug/324631
<_stink_> +1 for updating the report with good links, though greg-g
<greg-g> thanks :)
<jrwren> is it me, or has ubuntu gotten way more complex than it used to be? networkmanager and upstart and update-notifier seems like it adds a lot of complexity for not much benefit
<rick_h_> but but but...I agree
<rick_h_> but I'm not normal, so don't take my opinion on the matter
<jrwren> i'm not normal either, aparently.
<jrwren> at least with the manual stuff i could track down how things work.
<jrwren> is it me, or has ubuntu gotten way more complex than it used to be? networkmanager and upstart and update-notifier seems like it adds a lot of complexity for not much benefit
<jrwren> oops.
<jrwren> lolz.
<jrwren> i haven't had to deal with them being broken until now
 * greg-g is considering jumping ship
<greg-g> but I was also just appointed to the LoCo Council ;)
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> maybe you can help fix stuff.  complain really loudly
<greg-g> use that planet.ubunt access for good!
<rick_h_> heh, greg-g been there done that
<rick_h_> they all have different issues
<greg-g> yep
<jrwren> i can't figure out why my bridge interface doesn't start on boot. I have to login, ifdown and ifup on it, then it works.
<greg-g> huh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-11-30
<Blazeix> heh, anyone gone to wikipedia lately? they're trying something new with the donation messages.
<rick_h_> no, heard a few things
<rick_h_> but I actually don't use it much, I'm strange
<snap-l> rick_h_: Really?
<snap-l> Maybe that's my problem. :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I maybe hit wikipedia a couple times a month
<rick_h_> if that
<rick_h_> one link in my history going back to the start of Nov
<rick_h_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth#16-bit_direct_color
<snap-l> greg-g: Congrats on becoming the head of the loco council
<snap-l> er, just the loco council. Not just the head.
<greg-g> there is no head
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Yeah, as soon as I typed that, I thought "That doesn't make sense"
<greg-g> snap-l: but thanks!
<brousch> We got not a flake of snow here. Not even any frost.
<snap-l> Reminder: Detroit-ish Ubuntu Hour / Coffee House Coders is TONIGHT, and it's at 7PM. More info: http://ur1.ca/68laz !ubuntumi
<rick_h_> woot! chc time
<brousch> rick_h_: you gonna skype in for the meeting?
<rick_h_> brousch: I think I might be at the muppets if all goes wlel
<rick_h_> well that is
<brousch> Review from my 4 year old: "That was a great movie!"
<rick_h_> lol, should help kill a night and I don't have to embarass the family :)
<rick_h_> the boy is a bit too young still
<brousch> 4 seemed right
<brousch> he didn't talk much, sat through the whole thing with no potty breaks
<rick_h_> that's cool
<Wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> party!
<Wolfger> brousch: any review from the older "I grew up with the muppets" crowd?
<brousch> i laughed
<rick_h_> Wolfger: I've heard good things
<brousch> not enough gonzo
<rick_h_> heh, I'll like it then
<Wolfger> rick_h_: I had my first true vim moment yesterday... I went to edit a text file in my go-to Windows editor (ConText) and thought to myself "it would be so much easier to just cw this than highlight the word and change it"
<brousch> rick_h_: you prefer the more intellectual muppets like fozzie?
<Wolfger> so I opened vim and made the change there
<rick_h_> Wolfger: awesome!
<rick_h_> brousch: come on, more beaker!
<rick_h_> he's got such emotional range
<brousch> beaker and bunsen were basically not in it at all
<Wolfger> more Swedish chef and Animal!
<brousch> very sad
<brousch> animal was prominent
<rick_h_> oh come on...now I don't want to go
<brousch> i hadn't seen any other muppet movies, so i think i missed some references
<brousch> my wife and son are the muppetheads
<rick_h_> there were a few on netflix
<rick_h_> I watched the gonzo movie a little bit ago there
<rick_h_> and muppets take manhatten I think
<brousch> there's a gonzo movie?
 * Wolfger makes a note to check Netflix tonight for the Gonzo movie
<brousch> the most annoying thing was the voices being wrong
<rick_h_> yea, he gets his own. It's muppets from space or something
<Wolfger> Best movie ever was Muppet Treasure Island
<brousch> gonzo, piggy, and kermit were all off
<Wolfger> I used to know most of the words to every song in that movie
<Wolfger> brousch: that sucks
<brousch> ok, a google search for "gonzo movie" with safesearch off has produced some interesting results
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> brousch: muppets from space
<rick_h_> that's what you want to look for I think
<brousch> darn, no streaming
<brousch> added muppet treasure island too. boy loves pirates
<rick_h_> no? they move around
<rick_h_> I started watching one muppets movie
<rick_h_> and a couple of weeks later went to finish, but it was off streaming
<rick_h_> cranky rick_h_
<brousch> geez
<brousch> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/924
<brousch> Come on, mating handicap? You're rich, good looking, and have been to frickin space. I don't think a little facial hair is going to be a problem
<brousch> oh, and a nice accent
<rick_h_> heh, someone sounds jealous :P
<brousch> man-crush
<rick_h_> nice
<brousch> if you meet him i need you to save some epithelial cells so i can clone him
<rick_h_> heh, I'll keep that in mind
<Wolfger> chuckle of the day: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/122505/why-c-cant-be-made-as-python-in-terms-of-convenience
<Wolfger> man, jcastro is all up in everybody's shit on AskUbuntu, editing everything. :-)
<brousch> he is crazy on there
<jcastro> I AM BECOME DEATH
<krondor> I think he has an army of ghostwriters doing it for him, or a really awesome script.
<ColonelPanic001> jcastro is the fifth rider of the apocolypse. I knew it all along
<ColonelPanic001> but he brings Ubuntu goodies sometimes, so I don't mind.
<Wolfger> krondor: there's a "powered by Perl" tattoo at the base of his neck...
<krondor> lol, so a script forged in the fires of mount doom it is.
<snap-l> Afternoon
<snap-l> jcastro is a one man editing machine on askubuntu
<snap-l> There should be a meme: WWJCA - What would Jorge Casto Ask?
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<snap-l> Concise, clear, credible
<krondor> I'm not sure why askubuntu allows people to ask questions.  It should just pump all queries to the castro moderation engine for review ala slashdot.
<snap-l> Because jcastro would slit his writsts?
<jcastro> I'm not a top answerer
<jcastro> I just organize alot
<snap-l> You're the top "fix-your-shit" er
<snap-l> you take "UNity is crapppppp", and turn it into "I do believe, good sirs, tht my video card is lacking to display your fine Unity Product in significant detail, and I need assistance on how to have my machine adequately display Unity 2D. Good show, pip pip cheerio".
<Wolfger> LOL
<snap-l> (note: I have not heard jcastro use "pip pip cheerio" nearly enough)
<Wolfger> not sure about pips, but could use more Cheerios...
<greg-g> mmmmm, cherios
<Milyardo> hmmm, quite indubitably
<brousch> snap-l: y u brake jamendo?
<snap-l> eh?
<snap-l> works for me
<brousch> it says under maintenance
<snap-l> give it a sec and try again
<snap-l> That's not maint, that's Jamendo's servers hiccuping.
<brousch> Jamendo is currently under maintainance, sad isn't it ?Â Nevertheless, you can still listen to a whole bunch of wonderfull music (just here on the right) waiting for it to come back again
<brousch> ah, it is fixed
<brousch> thank you
<snap-l> You're welcome
 * snap-l hides the magic switch
<rick_h_> ugh, head hurts now
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-12-01
<snap-l> Evening again.
<snap-l> http://brainacle.com/how-to-write-vim-plugins-with-python.html
<snap-l> http://items.sjbach.com/97/writing-a-vim-plugin
<snap-l> Bah, I wish these articles didn't peter out before actually showing something useful
<snap-l> Heading to reddit != useful
<Blazeix> this one isn't bad: http://orestis.gr/blog/2008/08/10/scripting-vim-with-python/
<Blazeix> though it looks pretty hard to do simple things
<rick_h_> there's a book in progress, let me find it
<rick_h_> http://learnvimscriptthehardway.stevelosh.com/
<Blazeix> yeah, I was commenting on my dislike of vimscript, when widox and snap-l mentioned pythoning it up.
<Blazeix> whenever i modify an existing vim plugin, I can never tell if my lack of vimscript knowledge is holding me back, or if the original author wrote terrible code.
<rick_h_> heh, both
<rick_h_> ugh, rotten wireless here
<rick_h_> how was CHC?
<Blazeix> pretty good. just snap-l, widox and me, and I was about an hour late.
<Blazeix> got to see snap-l's new tablet
<rick_h_> oh yea? shiny?
<snap-l> Yeah, it's purdy.
<rick_h_> lol
<derekv> what is it the happen?
<snap-l> derekv: Pardon?
<derekv> cute way of asking whats up.
<greg-g> quÃ© paso?
<rick_h_> morning party people
<jjesse> morning rick_h_
<brousch> in the place to be
<mydogsnameisrudy> Morning from the U.P. ahe
<brousch> how much snow you have?
<mydogsnameisrudy> just a trace this morning
<mydogsnameisrudy> a bit of ice on the pond tho
<brousch> is that what you call lake superior?
<mydogsnameisrudy> well its lake huron on my side ..
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Sounds like a 1970s folk song: Lake Huron By My Side.
<brousch> google reader has a slightly different look. now each post is more seperated
<brousch> an improvement!
<rick_h_> Blazeix: widox https://github.com/mozilla/doctorjs
<rick_h_> kind of cool, works a little better
<rick_h_> but still not 100%
<Blazeix> cool
<snap-l> rick_h_: Do you use CTRL_X CTRL-O?
<rick_h_> snap-l: it's just ctags
<rick_h_> oh sorry, you mean omni-completion? yea some
<snap-l> http://youtu.be/U13xOvDa19U <- provided without comment
 * rick_h_ is scared
<rick_h_> ok, that is scary
<snap-l> And it works
<brousch> you want crazy? i'm in kde right now
<snap-l> brousch: That's not crazy. that's punishment.
<snap-l> and waiting to be in KDE is masochistic.
<brousch> it's fugly, but its behavior is more gnome2-like than unity or gnome3
<snap-l> More human than human. :)
<rick_h_> the quest for gnome2 continues?
<brousch> gnome shell quirks have annoyed me the last 2 days
<brousch> and unity quirks are still annoying
<rick_h_> lol, so much for he great gnome shell
<brousch> well, it's still less annoying than unity
 * snap-l doesn't have as much trouble with Unity.
<brousch> i don't like how it dynamically adds desktops
<snap-l> eh?
<brousch> and the notification thing is buggy
 * snap-l is still on 11.04 on his desktop, though
<snap-l> The laptop is running 11.10
<brousch> gnome shell gives you 1 desktop more than what you're using, so if the only program on desktop 2 crashes, desktop 3 becomes desktop 2
<snap-l> Oh, that's Gnome Shell
<snap-l> Well, of course it is, because it's Gnome Shell
<snap-l> it knows better than you what you want to do
<brousch> since i always have the same thing on desktop 1,2,3 i have to rejigger my programs whenever one closes
<brousch> and i can't park banshee on desktop 10
<snap-l> Why the fuck would you have 10 desktops?
 * snap-l can barely manage two
<brousch> i always have 4
<snap-l> Oh, right, because gnome shell did away with Minimize, didn't it?
<snap-l> because nobody ever shuffles things off their desk, ever.
<brousch> #1 work web browser with email, calendar, etc; #2 personal web browser with email calendar, etc; #3 pidgin; #4-9 actual work; #10 music
<snap-l> That's your problem right there
<snap-l> expecting to do actual work.
<Blazeix> when i was playing with gnome shell i had stationary things like email and music on #1 and #2
<Blazeix> that way I was fine with the dynamic workspaces being appended on the end
<brousch> Blazeix: right, but if you close your email program, everything moves up and you have to rejigger your programs to get it right again
<Blazeix> close your email program?
<brousch> or it crashes
<rick_h_> mutt doesn't crash, what's the matter with you :P
<Blazeix> ah, yeah, I could see that being annoying if it crashed. I don't think that ever really happened to me though
<Blazeix> the dynamic workspace thing was annoying, but I could see getting use to it eventually
<brousch> well with firefox on #1 and chrome on #2, i have crashes once a week probably
<brousch> the other big annoyance is the notifffication thing in the lower right. it just doesn't work right
<Blazeix> yeah, that's why I didn't have temporary things like browsers on #1 and #2, it definitely required me changing my patterns
<brousch> i've had trouble with it in dropbox and banshee
<snap-l> I want to smack my library sometimes.
<Blazeix> the notification thing was glitchy for me to
<snap-l> They literally send out an image filled with text in an e-mail
<brousch> and it slides up just far enough to be annoying if i have chrome downloads
<Blazeix> it like to jump up and down and play tag with my cursor
<Blazeix> s/like/likes/
<snap-l> http://library.booksite.com/5460/nl/?list=CNL9&preview=1
<brousch> snap-l: hah, that's how my doctor friend had his web site until i beat him about the head for a month
<brousch> anyways, i am disgruntled
<brousch> so now my eyes hurt from kde's theme
<brousch> but i have 10 desktops and stuff is not moving around, and notification area looks good and works, and my menus are where they're supposed to be
<brousch> does http://opendesktop.org work for anyone else?
<snap-l> Appears to work over here.
<rick_h_> works here on this sucky hotel wifi
<brousch> hm
<Blazeix> it's detecting you're running KDE, so it knows you don't care about how your desktop looks
<brousch> i wonder how irritated i would have to become to want to try one of your goofball tiling window managers
<rick_h_> lol, come to the dark side
<rick_h_> I wonder if greg-g is still experimenting or gave up
<Blazeix> if you're like me, not very irritated. I was in fluxbox land, and a friend said, "switch to Awesome," so I did.
<rick_h_> ok, fubar this. mifi time. Now if only I was in a 4g area ugh
<snap-l> Blazeix: If someone told you to jump off a bridge, would you?
<snap-l> because I'm totally there. :)
<Blazeix> idk, that same friend has since switched to wmii, and I'm resisting that.
<Blazeix> maybe if you told me to jump off a bridge while switching to Awesome.
<snap-l> There you go. :)
<brousch> ah, found a nice dark theme. apparently kde doesn't have to be painfully ugly, it just is by default
<snap-l> brousch: ++
<brousch> whoa: "Warning: Something's Not Right Here! mail.google.comÂ contains content fromÂ www.teefury.com, a site known to distribute malware. Your computer might catch a virus if you visit this site."
<greg-g> rick_h_: I'm... uh....... using Unity right now.... :(
<snap-l> Uh oh, the cult of awesome is shrinking.
<greg-g> but, if it makes anyone feel any better: I sure do hate Unity
<snap-l> Why?
<greg-g> it just handled IM's better (as in, if I'm away from my desk when I get one, I'll know about it via that meMenu or whatever its called)
<greg-g> better than gnome-shell
<snap-l> Yeah, the me menu is pretty nice
<greg-g> why do I hate: alt tab behavior is a major one
<snap-l> has saved my bacon
<brousch> greg-g: ug, yes, alt-tab
<brousch> and middle-click for new window. i don't have middle click!
<snap-l> Who's fault is that? :)
<greg-g> but seriously, why the fuck did they fuck with alt-tab? I haven't seen ANY reasoning that this is in any way better
<brousch> dell's?
<rick_h_> yea, get a real machine :P (thinkpad ftw)
<brousch> steve jobs the genius says i need 1 button. unity says i need 3
<greg-g> wait, brousch , middle click for new window? where?
<rick_h_> middle click on the icon in the sidebar thingy right?
<brousch> yeah
<brousch> for a new window of a program already running
<greg-g> ah
<greg-g> gotcha
<greg-g> ctrl+n not good enough for ya?
<brousch> no
<rick_h_> nothing is good enough for brousch, can't you tell?
<rick_h_>  :P
<brousch> then i have to move the window where i want it
<rick_h_> but middle click has magical mind reading location properties?
<brousch> yes, because i go to the desktop i want it on, then make a new window
<greg-g> ah
<brousch> otherwise i have to fgo to the desktop where the program is running, make a new window, then move it to the desktop i want it on
<rick_h_> if you used awesome you'd just move it to the right desktop with a quick shortcut like win-shift-4
<rick_h_> is there nothing like that in unity?
<brousch> any shortcut where i have to click more than <mod>+<key> is very annoying
<rick_h_> yea, I've got a couple that use shift I've trained myself for.
<rick_h_> rather that than getting arrow keys or fn keys and other out of reach keys
<brousch> so in my gnome2 workflow, i switch to desktop 4 with alt+4 then click the icon of firefox/gedit/terminal/whatever and blammo i have a new window where i want it
<rick_h_> so for me that's "meta-4" "ctrl-space" "fire<enter>"
<brousch> right, i'm not as keyboardy as you
<brousch> much of the time i keep my left hand on the keyboard and right on the mouse
<brousch> or touchpad or whatever
<brousch> nipple
<snap-l> You can right-click on the titlebar to move it to a window
<snap-l> Works under Gnome 2 or Unity
<snap-l> I wish that multi-monitor worke that way.
 * snap-l did not know about the middle mouse button trick, though
<snap-l> Though I just found that by holding shift along with the meta key, it'll open a new window.
<snap-l> That's handy.
<brousch> ah, got KDE panels set up just like good old gnome2
<snap-l> screenshot, or it didn't happen
<brousch> and an inoffensive color scheme
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/snapshot1.png
<snap-l> What's the bottom bar for?
<brousch> doh, forgot
<jjesse> brousch,  nice shiny kde :)
<brousch> here we go, fixed the task manager position and added system monitor. oh how i missed system monitor in my panel http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/snapshot3.png
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2011/12/01/spam-patterns/
<snap-l> I never got into the system monitors on the top bar
<brousch> i love them
<brousch> now i need to figure out these floating desktop thingies
<brousch> and wtf an activity is
<jjesse> no one knows what an activity is :)
<jjesse> you can multiple desktops and multiple activities
<jjesse> from my understanding :)
<krondor> jjesse:  activity == workspace but with per workspace settings
<krondor> you can have multiple desktops with multiple activities per use yes
<jjesse> thanks
<jjesse> i find them a bit silly?
<krondor> I only use like 2 or 3 activities.  Dev, Browsing, and Social.
<krondor> it's more for people that are hardcore workflow types, they need per desktop tuning for their day or something.
<krondor> very power desktop user settings
<brousch> interesting
<brousch> so instead of crippling virtual desktops kde gives you even more flexible ones?
<snap-l> Sounds like something that demos well, and is never used again.
<snap-l> like desktop cubes
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> i hate that cube
<jjesse> my son just told me "daddy i want you to stop saying words to me"
<jjesse> i laughed
<krondor> snap-l:  yeah it's nifty, but I'm just not into tuned desktops to that level.
<_stink_> jjesse: hah awesome
<_stink_> ours tells my wife and i to stop talking sometimes.
<krondor> speaking of Compiz, I absolutely love the app switcher in Unity.
<brousch> jjesse: that's how you know your lecture has been effective
<brousch> i've never gotten to that point
<brousch> app switcher?
<jjesse> brousch,  hopefully it was :)
<krondor> alt-tab
<brousch> kubuntu has kind of a cool one
<brousch> hey, dolphin's not bad
<brousch> i don;t think this existed last time i really used kde (2007,2008)
<krondor> brousch:  yeah dolphin finally feels like it can replace konq as of like 4.6 or 4.7.
<brousch> so how many people in here are using kde?
 * jjesse raises hand
<brousch> there may be more using kde than unity
<krondor> I alternate between kde and unity now.  I need to play with gnome3/shell though.
<brousch> what's this window floating on my desktop called?
<brousch> desktop folder
<krondor> folder view widget
<jjesse> that's an applet or widget
<jjesse> the desktop folder
<jjesse> you can select which folder to display
<jjesse> and interact w/ files right there (if you want)
<jjesse> i like to change mine to my home directory
<brousch> obviously i need to read jjesse's book
<jjesse> hahah
<jjesse> it actually go too light on KDE/Kubuntu there was so much to cover and i had so little space
<krondor> brousch lol you should have made the hike to lugwash I just showed them kde a few weeks back
<krondor> I am obviously doing something wrong here.. rsyslog will not send logs to my remote syslogd :|
<brousch> only 3 clock widgets? what is kde coming to?
<krondor> ah nevermind I'm an idiot, tcpdump port s/524/514/ and I see the traffic lol.
<brousch> rick_h_: Are you a manly muppet or a muppet of a man?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-12-02
<rick_h_> brousch: hah
<greg-g> rick_h_! help! vim! In nano, when deleting a lot of text at the end of an email I held down ctrl+k, thus a line was deleted each time the keypress was repeated. In vim I have to do "dd" which means my delete time is doubled! There must be a faster way!
<rick_h_> greg-g: yes, highlight the text you want to delete with line movement
<rick_h_> greg-g: so v and then some movements to get the text, like j, or ctrl-f, or ), etc. And then just hit d once
<rick_h_> and morning TGIF
<Wolfger> greg-g: I might also point out that "dd" is two keystrokes, and so is "ctrl+k" :-p
<rick_h_> greg-g: there's also the . command, which repeats the last change you made
<Wolfger> also, don't forget you can save time on multiple lines with number prefixes... e.g. 9dd to delete 9 lines
<rick_h_> so you can dd and then . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
<Wolfger> rick_h_: that is an awesome tip
<rick_h_> Wolfger: yea, it's darn handy. It can group together a couple of changes so it's often easier to do a cwNewWord
<rick_h_> and then head to the next place and do .
<rick_h_> vs cwNewWord again
<Wolfger> but will it still work if you move between lines? (i.e. dd, j, . will the dot repeat dd or j?)
<rick_h_> the . doesn't really do movement I don't think. It's more of an "Action" thing
<rick_h_> try it out some
<Wolfger> yessir
<rick_h_> :) and with that I've punted it back to you to answer bwuhahaha, *evil friday laugh*
<Wolfger> so which of you freetards is using YaCy?
<Wolfger> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15935550
<Wolfger> They say it's pronounced "ya see", but I'm leaning towards Yahtzee!
<brousch> pythonoids, do you keep your project right in the virtualenv, or do you put virtualenvs somewhere else and symlink the project into it?
<rick_h_> brousch: I keep my project in a virtualenv
<rick_h_> so ~/src/project_ve/src/project_code_in_git
<brousch> me too, but i see some people do a symlink
<rick_h_> brousch: sure
<brousch> if i did that it would make my dropbox happier
<rick_h_> ah, yea I don't dropbox source code
<rick_h_> it could change system to system, break the venv, etc
<rick_h_> if you symlink the venv, and install a new pip install pcakage
<rick_h_> and dropbox sync's it to another machine
<rick_h_> it'll break
<rick_h_> that's what your source control is for, you have remote repos you're pushing to right?
<brousch> right. it is basically useless backups to the cloud
<brousch> sometimes
<brousch> sometimes it is a crappy little script or something i'm trying out
<rick_h_> well /sometimes/yes and take your code out of dropbox all together
<rick_h_> brousch: then create a misc repo
<brousch> like when i tried snap-l's game. i gave a venv
<rick_h_> and I'll bet those aren't in a virtualenv anyway then
<rick_h_> right, but why did you need to back up snapl's game?
<brousch> i didn't
<brousch> i stuck it in with my code projects so i would know where to find it
<rick_h_> ok, well anyway, I'd look at more why you're doing vs worrying about symlinks/virtualenv like that, but that's just my opinion
<brousch> i think virtualenv wrapper does symlink
<brousch> i don't use it though
<rick_h_> yea, it keeps all the virtualenvs in .virtualenv so that it can list and complete which ones you have
<rick_h_> but I hate that level if indirection and it only solves the issue for python stuff which not all code is
<brousch> it should be!
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> but you're right i have no excuse for not having a bitbucket repo for all of my code
<brousch> free unlimited repos
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> more than 0.5GB of mostly virtualenv in my Dropbox/Projects
<rick_h_> right, virtualenv is the answer to "give up disk space for more isolated projects
<rick_h_> so to be expexted for sure
<rick_h_> my answer to that is always, "make your @#$@# rebuildable and don't worry about keeping the virtualenvs, you can recreate those in a heartbeat (or a few at least)
<brousch> my method breaks more often than it's helpful
<Wolfger> It's sad... whenever somebody types something like "@#$@#" in channel, my mind automatically tries to parse it as Perl...
<brousch> if i go to another computer i have to copy out the code, destroy the virtualenv, remake it, put the code back in, then do it all again because the bad one will sync to my main computer
<rick_h_> Wolfger: yes...very sad. :P
<rick_h_> brousch: exactly
<rick_h_> so to summarize, in answer to your question...stop doing it wrong :P
<rick_h_> now I feel helpful, yay friday
<brousch> i'm glad i could be of service
<rick_h_> it's been a rough week, I'll take every bit I can get
<brousch> trouble in canonicaland?
<rick_h_> let's just say I'm not sure this week of travel has been worth the PITA and $$
<brousch> i assume it's shuttleworth's money
<rick_h_> not all of it, it costs me $$ to do things and provide beverages and such all week
<rick_h_> and the babysitters, cleaners, etc I setup for the wife while away
<brousch> they don't expense caffeine?! i thought that was every 1337 coder's biggest perk
<brousch> ooh, home stuff can be bad
<rick_h_> yea, dog is in day care all week since I'm not home to let her out, etc
<brousch> damn, that is expensive
<brousch> like $25/day for us
<rick_h_> anyway, I'm getting to the end of the week and cranky
<rick_h_> yea, same here, though Tues/Thurs are $20
<brousch> probably missing your boy too
<brousch> a weekend is hard enough
<rick_h_> fly out tomorrow, all good
<brousch> i have placed a giant weather widget on my desktop. my conversion to kde is complete
<Wolfger> \o/
<jjesse> yay
<jjesse> rick_h_,  you can't fly out today?
<rick_h_> jjesse: naw, should have thought about it when I set it up
<jjesse> its corporate policy to get consultants back on friday
<rick_h_> but I think there's some policy on arriving/leaving weekends since that tends to keep ticket prices lower or something
<rick_h_> I think probably because they'd have to comp or something your travel time on a weekend?
<jjesse> might be different when you are billing customers
<jjesse> yeah
<jjesse> plus most of the time they are heading right back out
<jjesse> there are times i spend weekend if its multiple weeks in same spot but otherwise its out sunday night, back friday night
<rick_h_> gotcha
<jjesse> i hate it when on friday i don't know where i'm going to be on mondayâ¦ customer told me he needed me onsite on monday but haven't had official confirmation :(  time to punch him
<Wolfger> indeed
<brousch> kde is snappier than gnome-shell and unity
<brousch> oh wow, nice. kde stores all of my notifications so i can go back through them if i missed something
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Downloading the precise images via bittoreent.
<snap-l> Not to be confused with Bit torrent
<Wolfger> you're not satisfied with imprecise images?
<snap-l> nope
<snap-l> I want 12.04 to be as precise as a pangolin
<snap-l> Whatever that means.
<snap-l> also, finally picked up The Sword's Warp Riders
<snap-l> brousch: You're a Sabbath fan, right?
<brousch> only with ozzy
<brousch> dio is way too irritating
<snap-l> Well, check this out anyway.
<snap-l> Dio is definitely an acquired taste
<snap-l> as is Ozzy, to a certain extent. :)
<brousch> trudat
<brousch> and actually i only like ozzy with sabbath, not afterwards
<snap-l> http://ur1.ca/6amt7 <- The Sword
<brousch> bill ward is probably my favorite drummer
<snap-l> Not sure I'd go that far, by a long shot
<snap-l> Like saying that Ringo Starr is your favorite drummer
<snap-l> he just happens to be strongly associated with an act that you like, and fits it like a glove
<brousch> :P
<brousch> that is likely
<snap-l> though I have a ton more respect for Charlie Watts outside of the Rolling Stones chair
<Wolfger> Animal is my favorite drummer
<snap-l> Also got clocking the fuck out of Mick Jagger
<brousch> the sword is kind of sabbath-like
<snap-l> Yeah, that's why I recommended them
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/raw/457/ <- Charlie Watts
<brousch> i don't really care for the singer, but the chronomancers sound good
<snap-l> Yeah, the singer is an acquired taste
<greg-g> Wolfger: ctrl+k is not two keystrokes *on going* I hold down ctrl+K and each time the K is repeated by my keyboard it deletes a line, where as every second time the d is repeated by my keyboard (while being held down) vim deleted a line.
<Wolfger> :-p
<rick_h_> get em greg-g
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> g'morning
<greg-g> well, afternoon for you all
<greg-g> aha, I like the v and the line movements method!
 * greg-g hadn't used visual mode yet :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://lococast.net/archives/241
<rick_h_> :)
<greg-g> haha
<Wolfger> sad... by the time greg-g gets here I'm already done with lunch and thinking about quitting time
<rick_h_> greg-g: worth the 10min
<greg-g> Wolfger: you should move to the west side, or just blame timezones, or the fact that world is round, or....
<Wolfger> ...or just continue to think of you as a lazy slacker who doesn't get rolling til after noon? ;-)
<greg-g> sure, whatever blows up your skirt
 * Wolfger wonders if that's part of the California mystique
<greg-g> :) I've actually been saying that instead of "float your boat" for going on 15 years
<greg-g> holy cow, that's half my life (practically)
<Wolfger> I meant the perception that you guys sleep til noon
<greg-g> oh
<greg-g> well, yeah, definitley not all of SF/bay area, just the college kids, like all college kids.
<greg-g> actually quite the workaholic attitude out here, for better or worse
<greg-g> (probably worse)
<Wolfger> almost certainly
<greg-g> (see the jwz's critique of some VC using his words about startups)
<Wolfger> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/58425/what-are-the-benefits-of-placing-the-concatenation-character-at-the-end-or-begin
<Wolfger> +1 to "flip a coin and move on"
<Wolfger> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/33411/what-is-a-straight-playa-degree ROFL
<Wolfger> Gotta love Programmers SE
<Wolfger> s/Programmers/WastingTime/
<greg-g> Wolfger: I see you like the WastinTime aspect ;)
<Wolfger> greg-g: after finally getting the updates from the vendor that I've been asking for, for a month, and finding everything is still just as fubar as before the updates.... yeah. Kinda lost enthusiasm for attempting to be productive.
<greg-g> Wolfger: ugh, sorry :(
<Wolfger> Kinda feeling like ripping somebody's head off, but lacking the energy to go do so. "It took you a month to give me something that doesn't work AT ALL?!?"
<CrusaderAD> Anyone here use Glade or any other GUI development software?
<brousch> i have used glade once or twice
<CrusaderAD> Any other recommendations for a GUI platform?
<brousch> no one makes desktop guis any more
<brousch> but qt is the other big one
<CrusaderAD> cool, I'll check that out... thanks
<brousch> it was interesting at the gr dev day (former day of dotnet, so mostly MS devs) the keynote asked how many people were making desktop apps. only about 10% of the crowd raised their hand
<brousch> rick_h_: you can transfer departments and work with django! https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=401
<CrusaderAD> brousch: what's all the rage now? mobile/tablet development?
<brousch> web
<CrusaderAD> lol thank god
<brousch> there's a lot of interest in mobile too
<snap-l> http://www.jwz.org/blog/2011/11/you-doom-us-all-to-inhuman-toil-for-the-one-whose-name-cannot-be-expressed-in-the-basic-multilingual-plane/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-12-03
<snap-l> Good morning
<mydogsnameisrudy> Happy Saturday to ya
<brousch> snap-l: my son made up a song on his drums he calls "Angry Birds"
<snap-l> Hah. :)
<snap-l> That's awesome
<brousch> let's see if i can edit this
<snap-l> Heading out to get more fillings drilled out
<snap-l> yeah!
<brousch> ew
<snap-l> brousch: Looking forward to seeing his composition.
<brousch> brush your teeth d00d
<brousch> i might just extract the audio. it's so dark downstairs the video is crap
<snap-l> brousch: I do. These fillings are over 20 years old
<snap-l> They're silver fillings
<brousch>  medibuntu is not behaving. i need my illegal codecs damnit!
<rick_h_> phew I'm beat
<snap-l> rick_h_: wb
<rick_h_> woot
<snap-l> The right side of my face is numb
<rick_h_> ouch, watch out for your tongue
<snap-l> Yeah, it's all good
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/84/detail/ <- Reminder
<snap-l> And apparently it's showing up as 8pm in my calendar.
<brousch> 8pm on mine
<snap-l> Yeah, should be 9pm
<brousch> ok
<brousch> snap-l: son's original drum solo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib25lxsfQDo
<brousch> and "angry birds" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YzygDIo0hs
<snap-l> OK, I'll view those later
<snap-l> heading out
<brousch> i spammed them around the tubes
<snap-l> brousch: He's a regular Elvin Jones.
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YVOd1hK0_w
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-12-04
<brousch> snap-l: George says, "That one rocks!"
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Tell him he rocks too. :)
<snap-l> He's going to be a fine drummer. He's got rhythm.
<brousch> it's scary
<brousch> we play wii music. i can barely push the button on the note and he is improvising to the music
<brousch> snap-l: hah, thanks for the email. i thought the meeting was tonight
<snap-l> Nope, tomorrow
<brousch> i was planning my exercising tonight around it
<snap-l> jcastro: http://lockerz.com/s/161811222
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> so far
<snap-l> I really, really hate Yahoo right now
<snap-l> Forgot my password for my throw-away account on there, and can't manage to get back in
<snap-l> Apparently I gave them a secret question
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> oops
<snap-l> yeah, even better is I'm logged into it under Firefox, but not Chrome
<snap-l> Ah, here we go
<rick_h_> yay! victory
<snap-l> Not yet, just found the password file that had it in there.
<snap-l> Also, Yahoo just LOVES captchas.
<snap-l> And all of this is to try to get access to some stupid file in their groups section.
<snap-l> And, complete and abject failure
<rick_h_> ouch
<snap-l> Can't associate my email with my Yahoo ID.
<snap-l> and this is why I hate Yahoo
<brousch> yahoo is crap
<brousch> flickr is all they have,and i don't use it because it's too annoying to login
<mydogsnameisrudy> wonders why snap-l  is using yahoo then
<brousch> he enjoys pain
<mydogsnameisrudy> oh i c
<snap-l> mydogsnameisrudy: There's several mailing lists for games that I enjoy
<snap-l> and one of them mentioned that they have some files in their group files area
<snap-l> Which unless you're joined to said group with a yahoo account, you can't access.
<brousch> you can usually link to your google account
<snap-l> brousch: Yes, I know
<snap-l> and apparently you can do the same with Yahoo!, at least when it's working properly and doesn't act like a total cockmonkey.
<snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/123144/using-c-but-not-using-the-languages-specific-features-should-switch-to-c
<brousch> see what i mean about liking pain. he willingly reads programmers.se
<jrwren> anyone thinking C will give perf boost over C++ has not followed C++ compilers lately.
<snap-l> jrwren: Well, unless you can name a reason why you're using C++ over C, you have no business using either. :)
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> i like that.
<greg-g> g'morning
<rick_h_> afternoon
 * greg-g is still drinking his coffee
 * rick_h_ is using toddler nap time for bookie hacking
<greg-g> rick_h_: glad to see the tweet about bookie hacking :)
<greg-g> yay!
<rick_h_> yea, with the new job and all that hard to find time
<rick_h_> but getting stabs of needing to work on it some
<greg-g> yeah, I hear ya, new jobs are always time sucking, at least at first
<rick_h_> yea, and holidays to boot
<greg-g> yeah :)
<greg-g> but, things going positively at LP, rick_h_ ?
<rick_h_> yea, I think so
<rick_h_> it's interesting to see inside of a bit
<greg-g> yeah, I bet
<greg-g> we've setup some xmas stuff already: http://www.flickr.com/photos/grggrssmr/tags/xmas/
<jjesse> nice
<jjesse> our christmas tree is a fake tree that is light and decorated already
<jjesse> each year we "take it down" by covering the tree with the tree skirt and putting in the storage in the basement :)
<greg-g> I like those too
<greg-g> carrie loves christmas so we tend to go out a bit more than average
<jjesse> my wife does as well, i'm not a big christmas fan but Caleb seems to love it as well
<jjesse> so i guess i'm becoming less of a grinch
<rick_h_> you give me hope
<jjesse> me?
<rick_h_> with the boy's birthday, and all the events are out at other people's houses...I'm a bit of a grinch still
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> wife's bugging me to get a tree and I'm like "I just got back, we have no where to put it, we're not going to be here for it anyway..."
<greg-g> wait, when's your boy's bday, rick_h_ ?
<rick_h_> 28th
<greg-g> oh nice
<rick_h_> but we're doing his birthday before Christmas this year
<greg-g> gotcha
<rick_h_> oh yea...it sucks...
<rick_h_> we get flooded with gifts and have to do double christmas/birthday. Hide half his gifts and bring them out through the year
<jjesse> that stinks a bit
<rick_h_> plus just rotten timing to get family together. Everyone's already booked
<jjesse> rick_h_,  so you survived your week trip?
<rick_h_> jjesse: barely
<rick_h_> was done for Friday
<jjesse> yeah?
<rick_h_> and had to get up 3:30am to make the airport on Sat
<jjesse> ouch been there done that
<jjesse> i'm off to Indy for the week
<rick_h_> so nice to be behind my own desk, full keyboard, triple monitors, etc
<rick_h_> and sleep in my own bed
<rick_h_> jjesse: cool, have fun in indy. Just don't ask any colts fans how they're doing :)
<jjesse> hahaha
<rick_h_> I did get my new backpack though, <3
<jjesse> going to investing customer has people in EMEA, APAC and Indy i have to work w/
<rick_h_> getting a nice TUMI for christmas
<jjesse> going to be interesting
<jjesse> oooo TUMI so jealous
<rick_h_> so the Budapest trip in Jan should be nice
<rick_h_> I don't even know what EMEA and APAC are...
<jjesse> sorry Europe (Europe Middle East and Afrrica) and Asia and Pacific
<rick_h_> oic
<rick_h_> yea, that's fun stuff. It's funny how strange everyone's hours are when people are everywhere
<jjesse> good news is its 1 week on site for and 2 weeks remote
<rick_h_> remote == from home?
<jjesse> yup
<rick_h_> nice
<jjesse> yeah excited
<greg-g> gnome-shell as tiling window manager (via plugin) http://gfxmonk.net/shellshape/
<greg-g> rick_h_: Blazeix brousch ^^
<jrwren> greg-g: real tree?
<greg-g> jrwren: yep
<greg-g> jrwren: got it from a school fundraising thingy
<snap-l> We're debating on whether to put up the real tree, or put up the Charlie brown Christmas Tree
<mydogsnameisrudy> going to the woods and cutting one down
<jrwren> good looking real tree
<brousch> greg-g: kubuntu is actually growing on me
<greg-g> brousch: cool
<brousch> it's uglier, but i feel like i can make it do whatever i want
<brousch> more linuxy
<Neal__> WOW.   Hi Craig
<snap-l> Hello, Neal
<snap-l> Welcome. :)
<snap-l> Good to talk with you on the phone
<Neal__> Thank You...Been trying to get set-up with 11.10, and anxious to learn whatever I can.
<snap-l> Awesome.
<Neal__> OK.  Thanks fore the help getting in here.  I have some 'paper work' to chatchup on before I can really concentrate on the learnin' thing.  See you in a short while.
<snap-l> np. Feel free to hang out if you want.
<brousch> snap-l is doing phone support now?
<brousch> good side job
<snap-l> brousch: For Ubuntu, yes. :)
<brousch> 9pm tonight, oh fearless leader?
<snap-l> si
<snap-l> or was that directed at greg-g, since I'm the afeared leader. :)
<brousch> greg-g is oh estranged leader
<snap-l>  /away Food
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-26
<rick_h_> jcastro_: need a jigsaw, chop saw, or table saw? clearing out some unused tools
<dzho> rick_h_: would you be inclined to offer them to a hackerspace?
<rick_h_> dzho: oh hmm, hackerspace. Need a table saw, chisels, and such as well? /me is trying to sell of tools I don't use to get a new bandsaw.
<dzho> rick_h_: I don't know if there are any in your area that are interested in buying, just thought I'd represent that possibility for a moment :-)
<dzho> hacker/makerspace might be a good filter for targetting to find buyers, at least.
<rick_h_> yea, I'm trying to sell to my woodworking group. But by being in the group you tend to have this stuff so the basic tools don't seem to sell well
<rick_h_> dzho: so you thinking i3? Or another group you were thinking of?
 * rick_h_ should look at his list membership. Was following one of the groups a while back
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> ug
<rick_h_> yea, with you there
<brousch> time to get coffee and head to work
<snap-l> morning
<rick_h_> http://twitpic.com/bgmtow ah monday
<brousch> It's Cyber Monday! So who wants to cyber?
 * rick_h_ wishes he could splurge on some lee valley cyber goodness
<brousch> Did you just say you wanted to splurge on some tools?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Love it. :)
<snap-l> Argh, was hoping the MDI cable nonsense that VW has would be partof their Cyber MOnday sale
<snap-l> nope, just a bunch of wearables and branded crap
<snap-l> Ah well. One can dream
<snap-l> Apress has all of their ebooks on sale for $15 each
<snap-l> Picked up Foundations of Python Network Programming, and Pro HTML 5
<brousch> So all caught up on your old books then?
<snap-l> brousch: Remember what happened to Jiminy Cricket in Pinocchio? :)
<brousch> No
<snap-l> I can stop whenever I want.
 * snap-l has come to accept he will have a backlog.
<dzho> I just wait for new technologies to be replaced.
<dzho> I find it saves me a lot of time.
<snap-l> dzho: Yeah, that doesn't nearly work as well as one might think.
<dzho> neither do I, I suppose ;-)
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, but I'm pinching pennies to get  a big tool :)
<rick_h_> heh, oreilly had a 50% thing off all books today I thought I saw
<rick_h_> ok now this is interesting http://thenextweb.com/google/2012/11/26/google-acquires-wireless-internet-network-provider-icoa-for-400-million/
<snap-l> btw: if someone is looking to pick up The Art of Computer Programming, InformIT has it 50% off
<snap-l> Physical book, not the eBook
<snap-l> If you don't have it already, now's a great time to stick it to Addison Wesley for supporting SOPA. ;)
<snap-l> (subsidiary of Pearson)
<snap-l> free ground shipping
<brousch> snap-l:  http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/11/26/1456237/oreilly-discounts-every-ebook-by-50
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, I know. :)
<snap-l> I thought you were about me not buying more books. ;)
<brousch> hah
<snap-l> Also, Sheldon (the comic) has one of their books on sale for $1 + shipping
<snap-l> I've been buying the O'Reilly eBooks over the paper ones, because a) they get updated, and b) They load them into Dropbox for me. :)
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha, charging mifi and headphones at the coffee shop...dual out batteries ftw
<rick_h_> now hurry up and charge headphones...christmas music fml
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, it's my least favorite music
<brousch> But what about OMc Xmas edition?
<snap-l> Yeah, not sure I'm doing one this year. :)
<snap-l> Will have to think about it. :)
<rick_h_> Dec 1, then I'll pull out the trans siberian orchestra
<snap-l> Blergh.
<snap-l> I ODed on that to the point where I can't listen to that album
<rick_h_> album? there's a ton
<rick_h_> well, several
<snap-l> I have the first one
<snap-l> also the Savatage album that became TSO
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Winter_Dead
<snap-l> I don't mind TSO, but they're like the Manheim Steamroller of Metal
<snap-l> Great musicians, and horribly overplayed during December
<jjesse> well they haven't really came out w/ a new christmas album have them
<jjesse> they
<jjesse> i took my wife to a show twice and it was the same stuff, no idea why i would want to go again
<rick_h_> so they've got 3 christmas albums, couple non-christmas I've gotten. I tend to only break them out for the holidays
<brousch> LASERS
<rick_h_> looks like a new small album came out end of oct
<jjesse> night castle or whatever it is is pretty good, i listen to that at different times of year other than the holidays
<rick_h_> yea, agree that come actual christmas it's put away, but at least it's better than a lot of the usual christmas stuff
<snap-l> Yeah, I have no problem with them, just overdosed to the point where I'm not interested any more
<rick_h_> jjesse: yea, I really dug the beethoven last night one
<jjesse> agreed
 * greg-g reads scroll back and responds to one thing:
<rick_h_> greg-g: morning :)
<greg-g> I do actually enjoy two of the 3 SOMA.fm xmas stations (xmas in frisko, and the new alternative one)
<greg-g> don't know why I mixed spelling out the numbers and numerals there, (two vs 3), g'morn ;)
<snap-l> greg-g: I may have to check those stations out
<greg-g> the frisko one has some weird stuff every now and then, like, really weird
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> just like SF in general ;)
<rick_h_> coming from greg-g that scares me
<greg-g> :) I do like my weird
 * snap-l is listening to Infections Grooves. Better than any Xmas music. ;)
<jcastro_> those guys are awesome
<snap-l> Their cover of Fame is killer
<snap-l> Bah, Infectious Grooves
<Blazeix> rick_h_: what's that speaker you were showing off at CHC?
<rick_h_> speaker?
<rick_h_> Blazeix: ^
<Blazeix> yeah, a couple months ago, it was some sort of cylindrical usb speaker, or maybe wireless
<snap-l> The Bluetooth speaker
<rick_h_> ah, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007OLJDZG/ref=wms_ohs_product
<rick_h_> <3
<Blazeix> ah, that's it, thanks
<snap-l> Well, I went from wanting a book about Atari Inc: The Business of Fun, to really not caring so much because of their instistance on DRM on the ebook copy.
<devinheitmueller> snap-l: I have the "Once Upon Atari" movie.  Not bad.
<greg-g> snap-l: pirate!
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: Yeah, I picked up the VHS from HSW at a con
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I'm a filthy pirate hippie
<devinheitmueller> Ah, I was going to offer to loan it to you, but no need then.
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: NP. Thanks. :)
<greg-g> "loan"?! you're both pirates!
<devinheitmueller> heh
<rick_h_> ugh https://twitter.com/mxcl/status/273063716021497856 gets me going
<snap-l> Got him to sign a Raiders of the Lost Ark cart for JoDee.
<devinheitmueller> So is the library apparently then.
<greg-g> devinheitmueller: in the UK, it is kinda, as in, they have to buy special "library copies" to lend out because their copyright law is busted. In the US we have the first sale doctrine
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, especially since it isn't true. :)
<devinheitmueller> Yes, I am not in the UK though.
<devinheitmueller> :-)
<greg-g> rick_h_: anything that has the word zealot in it is worthless, no matter the source
<greg-g> devinheitmueller: sure sure, just your random (C) trivia of the day ;)
<devinheitmueller> Well, thank you then.
<greg-g> You're welcome.
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, the webkit thing is the one that bugs me the most. and the fact that it ignores the whole system lock in crap. ugh!
<rick_h_> but that's the goal, it's troll-bait
<greg-g> zactly
<snap-l> rick_h_: Never let the facts get in the way of perfectly good troll bait
<snap-l> rick_h_: Sent a response to Popey correcting him for that tweet. ;)
<devinheitmueller> People have argued that Samsung is largely just a consumer of OSS (and they do the bare minimum required to release the source code to their modified kernel).  However I can say first hand they are a *huge* contributor at least to the LinuxTV project.
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: I had a Samsung Printer. The fact that it had Linux drivers was a huge plus to me
<rick_h_> yea, in the end I don't care about their OSS contributions.
<rick_h_> they sell devices, ones I can buy and do whatever the $%#@$# I want with
<snap-l> Unfortunately the "I refuse to turn on after two years" was a bit of a let-down
<rick_h_> now let's look at the other side...apple...riiiight
<devinheitmueller> I'm just saying there tend to be two classes of corporate OSS:  those that consume OSS and do the bare minimum to comply with the GPL requirements, and those who actively engage with the community, create new contributions, and work to get their stuff merged upstream.
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: I think there's a third though coming out. The ones that comsume, modify, and kind of submit upstream on slightly diff terms.
<rick_h_> at least I think how apple/google works with kthml/webkit is different than many other devs
<devinheitmueller> "diff terms" meaning licensing?
<rick_h_> well, just that not active, behind closed doors, with occassional dumps of code
<rick_h_> though I think google/webkit are a bit cleaner on that end
<greg-g> you mean android? ;)
<rick_h_> I do mean android
<rick_h_> but I think it's more broad than that
<greg-g> :)
 * rick_h_ looks in employer mirror some
<greg-g> hahahaha
<devinheitmueller> I can say firsthand that getting code actually *upstream* can be a huge exercise.  You're just trying to get something done, and in many ways the approach you take isn't the one the upstream maintainers want (not generic enough, doesn't take into account other use cases you don't care about, etc)
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: definitely agree. I've had several patches just sit and I get tired of trying to get them in
<rick_h_> ty github fork and move on mode
<devinheitmueller> Yup.
<rick_h_> but it's more for business reasons in this 3rd group I think.
<devinheitmueller> I'm wrangling with the VLC team this week.  I'm on my fifth attempt to get a relatively simple patch accepted.
<rick_h_> dev in secret/together and then dump back to OSS to take/leave
<rick_h_> ok, so maybe my idea of more than just the 2 distinct camps is a bit naive
<rick_h_> but it sure seems there's more than consumers and producers
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> crap, this was interesting but now it's fake http://goo.gl/mtJqZ
<snap-l> Wow, that's quite the stock jump
<snap-l> $.0005 from $.0001
<brousch> Nice job, rick_h_, lining some pump-and-dumper's pockets
<rick_h_> woot
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/tarasyoung/status/273110968123400193
<snap-l> This is where I get cranky.
<rick_h_> I bought 10,000 shares with my lunch money
<rick_h_> woo cranky monday!
<rick_h_> lol, at least @popey corrected the 'making webkit' crap
<snap-l> Yeah, @popey realized his error pretty early on
<rick_h_> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Postgres amen!
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: OK if I reference you in a tweet?
<devinheitmueller> Uh, sure.
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/squeekyhoho/status/273150447852863489 < devinheitmueller
<rick_h_> hah, chased him away
<snap-l> Uh oh
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: I fear I chased you away. ;)
<devinheitmueller> No, I'm actually doing some router testing, which is intermittently kicking me off the Internets.
<devinheitmueller> As a general rule, it's bad practice to use your main PC *through* a router you are actively developing code for.
<snap-l> Heh
<devinheitmueller> OTOH, openwrt is a pretty neat little project.
<snap-l> I use Tomato myself, but I love these little firmware projects.
<devinheitmueller> Yeah, I was able to port to a new platform over a long weekend.
<snap-l> There are some days when SQL makes you feel like you have super powers
<snap-l> as opposed to the other days where SQL makes you feel like you are undeserving of even a crayon to scrawl your blatherings.
<jhansonxi> Try SQL through M$ Office sometime.  You'll be begging to at least get a crayon.
<snap-l> We do not speak of MS Office and SQL in the same breath
<brousch> It's all drag and drop
<brousch> You don't even write queries
<snap-l> I do love it when I create cartesian product that the MySQL server detects and kills, though
<snap-l> that was fun.
<jrwren_> wtf is SQL through office?
<jrwren_> you mean access as a front end? its not that bad.
<jrwren_> its terrible in the hands of an undereducated user, but very powerful in hands of a professional
<jhansonxi> It may have improved in the last release or two but when I was working with it the SQL support was rather crippled.  Very few command supported.  SQL Server wasn't the problem, just Office.
<jhansonxi> (and its broken drivers)
<jhansonxi> OpenOffice.org was much better.
<jhansonxi> I was responsible for inventory DB maintenance and generating bill-of-materials.  I used Excel for the reports because of a bug in OOo caused conditional formatting to be lost when a data range was updated from a DB.  I got out of that position when management decided to upgrade from SQL Server to Access (Jet or whatever).
<jrwren_> ah, excel.
<jrwren_> right tool for right job :)
<jrwren_> wait, upgrade FROM SQL Server to Access ?
<brousch> Access is the bizomb
<jhansonxi> jrwren_: Yep.  The boss (very experienced Windows SE) replaced PeachTree accounting system with Great Plains.  GP did almost nothing he wanted but allowed to to customize it better.  He wanted to integrate the inventory DB with it and thought that accessing SQL Server from .NET was "too hard".  So the existing DB was deleted (no attempt to port the data) and a new one started using Access only.
<jhansonxi> Several years of data wiped out and I knew how unstable the Access engine was in a multi-user environment.
<jhansonxi> The fact that the SQL Server team had deprecated the engine development didn't deter him because the Office team forked it (because of some query function they couldn't live without).
<jrwren_> GP?!?!  what year was it?
<jrwren_> oh, and anyone who thinkgs accessing SQL Server from .NET is too hard, is foolish at best :)
<brousch> mmmm, Great Plains
<jhansonxi> About 5 years ago (GP is Dynamics now)
<brousch> I long for Great Plains. It was so much easier to query than this clusterfuck called Quickbooks
<jrwren_> QB is a nightmare.
<jrwren_> but all of them sucking so badly suggests the market is ripe for the plucking :)
<brousch> The problem is no one _wants_ to create accounting software
<jrwren_> exactly.
<jrwren_> its not a fun place to be in software dev.
<jhansonxi> Today, if I needed an inventory control system I wouldn't waste time on anything that wasn't browser-based.
<brousch> So the people making it are the ones who can't cut it in more fun jobs
<jhansonxi> It's not bad job security if you can tolerate the environment: http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1994-06-10/
<jhansonxi> I've found accounting people to be the most paranoid of software changes.
<jrwren_> are there browser based inventory control systems?
<jhansonxi> jrwren_: Probably but I haven't looked in quite a while.  I'm not doing IT currently, just contract PCB design (electronics CAD).
<brousch> I need to get all objects from a table for one thing, and a subset of them for another on the same page. Should I make two database calls or one and filter the subset myself?
<brousch> Two calls is much cleaner
<brousch> Hm, actually I need 3 calls sometimes
<Blazeix> without knowing anything about your problem, i'd vote for grabbing them once, then filtering when you need the subset
<brousch> I wonder if Django optimizes it automagically
<rick_h_> make 3 calls, 3 db calls aren't that slow and keep them split.
<rick_h_> test each seperately
<rick_h_> if you can share a chunk then share it and have all three queries call the shared method
<rick_h_> and if you hit a performance issue then make the first call a @cachedproperty kind of thing and then reuse it
<jrwren_> only 1 db call per pageload allowed. :p
 * rick_h_ looks at launchpad (admittingly slow) doing well into double digits ALL THE TIME
<jrwren_> i'm just anti select N+1
<rick_h_> https://launchpad.net/launchpad just did 68 queries in .62 of db time
<jrwren_> as long as you don't have N+1, I'm happy.
<jrwren_> i was j/k about 1 db call per pageload
<rick_h_> yea, and if you've got three different reasons to query, you want to keep them apart and not relying on each
<rick_h_> yea, I mean bookie is kept pretty much to 2-5 at max, but it's very simple
<jrwren_> yes, async queries can be just as fast as the slowest query.
<rick_h_> and everythign is ajax'd as you need it/api calls
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-27
<rick_h_> interesting https://twitter.com/onyxfish/status/273227612061573121
<snap-l> Yeah, well, shipping is getting more expensive
<snap-l> post office is increasing their rates
<snap-l> http://www.fsf.org/givingguide
<snap-l> http://bassdrops.bandcamp.com/ <- This takes fucking balls
<snap-l> New episode of OMC is out, and it's an Instrumetalcast
<rick_h_> .party!
<jjesse> yay for a messed up back and 800mg of ibprofen
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> jjesse: is feeling good!
<jjesse> not yet, still waiting to hit my system
<jjesse> but soon i'll be feeling great
<brousch> What'd you do to yourself?
<jjesse> no idea
<jjesse> probably when i was working on fixing the dryer and bent all weird
<brousch> Right "fixing the dryer"
<jjesse> ok i'll admit it, hurt during sex
<brousch> Oh wow, an actual Python3 webapp https://bitbucket.org/cedricbonhomme/pyaggr3g470r/wiki/Home
<brousch> jjesse: attaboy
<snap-l> God, I fucking hate RVM
<snap-l> logged in to my machine, and it wouldn't source my .bashrc because it created a .bash_profile file for me
<snap-l> which didn't run because it couldn't find the .rvm directory that I deleted.
<snap-l> For everything that I like about virtualenv, the exact opposite is true of RVM
<snap-l> virtualenv is surgical, rvm is invasive
<snap-l> virtualenv works with the developer's environment. RVM tries to take over the developer's environment
<brousch> preach it, brotha
<jrwren_> its funny, i had similar complaints about virtualenv using it for the first time after having used rvm.
<jrwren_> "this virtualenv is lame, it does so little. rvm does it all for me."
<snap-l> jrwren_: Different strokes, I guess. :)
<snap-l> I think my biggest complaint of all is having to use curl to install it, while sourcing the resulting file
<snap-l> I want to make it my life's goal to crack that system and insert something innocuous, like change the prompt of every rvm user to say "this is really fucking insecure $"
<rick_h_> and virtualenv is built into 3.3 now so it's a part of the language ftw
<rick_h_> wasn't there an alternative to rvm that was ok?
<rick_h_> didn't do the cd magic and BS
<snap-l> rick_h_: And that's another contrast: I really hope RVM is never baked into Ruby.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Outside of putting it on a virtual machine, I'm not aware of one.
<snap-l> But I was getting my perennial jonesing for running Tracks, and RVM pretty much killed any enthusiasm
<rick_h_> ah rbenv but looks like no updates in a year :(
<snap-l> Yeah, rbenv is pretty dead, afaict.
<jrwren_> snap-l: different strokes, yes, but also I think it is a dislike of the unfamiliar. we both didn't like what was different because we didn't see (and still dont) a reason for it to be different
<jrwren_> snap-l: I've loathed the curl | bash installer for a while, but really it is not much different than a pip install
<rick_h_> jrwren_: I think sane people dislike too much magic and anything that goes and replaces cd for me is doing too much magic
<rick_h_> imo :)
<snap-l> jrwren_: I really hate it when part of the install process mucks directly with my .bashrc
<snap-l> Seriously, it took the liberty of adding that
<snap-l> Wow, Twitter lists are incredibly clunky
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I don't know how people use them tbh
<rick_h_> hah, jcastro__ beat me to linking snap-l to the juju charm for tracks
<jcastro__> charm install hooks = linode install scripts. :)
<snap-l> The only downside is it installs everything to the system.
<rick_h_> run it in lxc containers
<snap-l> which is what I was hoping to avoid.
<snap-l> Yeah, that may be the better approach
<rick_h_> the lxc containers in 12.10 seem a nice chunk faster than 12.04
<jcastro__> nod
<snap-l> I've not played with LXC at all. Is that the same as the openvps stuff? (or whatever Parallels was doing)
 * snap-l is fuzzy on the name
<rick_h_> sorry, don't know what parallels was doing
<jcastro__> no
<jcastro__> lxc are more like super chroots
<snap-l> There was some container stuff that they did
<jcastro__> so like, containers but they share the same kernel resources
<jcastro__> so "lightweight VMs"
<snap-l> ok
<jcastro__> the parallels stuff is real virtualization afaict
<snap-l> There was one thing they used that was like a super chroot
<jcastro__> I am trying to get in the habit of running things in containers
<snap-l> but you needed a custom kernel to make it work
<jcastro__> rick_h_, is there a write up somewhere for using LXC containers like on the fly for stuff?
<rick_h_> hmmm, I setup using the launchpad docs
<jcastro__> link me up!
<rick_h_> https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC
<snap-l> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LXC ?
<rick_h_> so just start with the first bits
<rick_h_> meh, that seems a bit over the head to start with
<snap-l> Is it compatible with Virtualbox?
<snap-l> ie: is it going to make VB unhappy if I run them together?
<rick_h_> go through the creating an lxc container, then just run ifconfig from inside the container and setup a host alias for the ip
<rick_h_> no, I run both
<rick_h_> I do all my LP dev in an lxc container, but use VBox for my windows VM
<rick_h_> I even do IE testing from my Windows VBox into my LXC container
<rick_h_> to do LP IE testing
<snap-l> nice
<rick_h_> so there's a new series of lxc-XXX commands that do stuff, kind of like kvm
<snap-l> OpenVZ. That's what I was thinking
<jcastro__> snap-l, Hemispheres is really great on long flights
<rick_h_> but I thought juju would deploy to lxc containers and create them for you?
<jcastro__> openvz is more like kvm/xen isn't it?
<jcastro__> rick_h_, yeah, but I want to get used to using it "raw"
<snap-l> It's like a kernel-blessed chroot
<jcastro__> for like, home server/laptop use when I'm messing around and not deploying charms
<jcastro__> snap-l, yeah, so basically, it's like openvz but already in the kernel
<snap-l> WE used OpenVZ for hosted apps at SF.net
<rick_h_> yea, when you create a container it basically copies your /bin and such out to create the new system
<rick_h_> so it bootstraps the lxc from your install and then when you boot/go into it it's just like a VM
<rick_h_> you ssh to it, boot, shutdown, etc
<snap-l> I quite liked openvz, save for the kernel wonkiness
<rick_h_> snap-l: I can show you at CHC tomorrow if you want
<rick_h_> jcastro__: long 3hr chc tomorrow. Make the trip!
<snap-l> jcastro__: Definitely make the trip. I have goodies for you.
<jcastro__> I'm on a plane to vegas for the AWS conference
<rick_h_> doh
<rick_h_> man, nice to get out there. I kept getting emails but $$ conference
<snap-l> jcastro__: You're not actually on the plane right now, are you? :)
<jcastro__> I am
<jcastro__> inflight wifi
<rick_h_> booo, I need to ditch delta to get some of that.
<jjesse> delta has in flight wifi
<snap-l> jcastro__: Download the latest OMC. ;)
<rick_h_> I never get that when I fly. Drives me nust
<jjesse> hrmm that's weird i thought Delta has most of the flights covered w/ wifi
<jjesse> i like not having internet access on a plane, gives me a chance to read and not work :)
<jcastro__> rick_h_, something like 85%+ of their fleet has it
<snap-l> jjesse: That's probably for the super-special crew that spoons the pilot
<jcastro__> and that was like 2 years ago
<jcastro__> the problem now is everyone is on it, so it's slower than it used to be
<snap-l> extra-special-deluxe-spooning class
<rick_h_> well, now that I think about it I guess the long international flights probably don't have it due to being over ocean for the trip
<jjesse> in fact i was on a regional jet between grand rapids and detroit it had wifi
<jjesse> which is dumb
<rick_h_> and then the hops out of amsterdam just haven't had it for me
<jjesse> yeah internet over oceans is something they are still working on it
<rick_h_> so I just choose flights poorly
<rick_h_> thoguh I didn't have it on my flights to/from CA last March either
<snap-l> jcastro__: Maybe we could set up Big Blue Button so we can chat with you on the flight. ;)
<jjesse> rick_h_, when you book a flight it will show if the flight has wifi on it
<jcastro__> snap-l, heh, I can barely IRC
<snap-l> What's the default password for a lxc lucid server?
<rick_h_> so if you do lxc-start it shold just give you a prompt on the machine
<rick_h_> without the -d (detached/headless mode)
<rick_h_> and I just set it from there, but I think it's 'ubuntu'
<snap-l> It just gave me a login prompt
<rick_h_> ubuntu/ubuntu?
<snap-l> nope
<snap-l> ubuntu/[enter] doesn't work either
<rick_h_> what command did you use to create it?
<snap-l> Ah, I passed it my login creds
<rick_h_> ah, there you go
<snap-l> OK, now I'm in
<snap-l> Woah, it's using my home directory. That's odd.
<snap-l> I think I passed one too many flags. ;)
<rick_h_> lol, did you use that launchpad command?
<snap-l> yes
<rick_h_> yea, I don't do that
<rick_h_> yea, normally launchpad sits on your home dir and to help things like up it tries to mirror things
<rick_h_> yea, lxc-destory and recreate to drop some flags and get a more split machine
<snap-l> Ah, nice. It caches everything.
<snap-l> me likey
<rick_h_> what's cool is you can script it. So I only run my launchpad dev stuff when I need to
<rick_h_> and you can make a tracks_start command to fire up the lxc
<rick_h_> then hit the url for the website
<snap-l> Yeah, that's really handy
<rick_h_> and let it fubar the container all ruby wants
<rick_h_> gets bad dump your data, lxc-destroy, and recreate
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-28
<rick_h_> snap-l: https://plus.google.com/u/0/114546378907380458640/posts/ZA7Lk96dian
<rick_h_> krondor: hey, ssshhhhh on G+ :P
<jrwren_>   lolz, cute
<snap-l> rick_h_: cute
<snap-l> man, cat just had thr runs, and managed to step in it
<snap-l> not cool
<rick_h_> doh
<snap-l> Yeah, that's not a trick I hope she masters.
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> morn
<snap-l> I have a cat with a cone trying in vain to clean herself in front of me
<brousch> Be a good mommy and clean her yourself
<rick_h_> http://jessenoller.com/2012/11/28/the-great-python-org-redesign/ whoa, pretty python site?
<brousch> Seems to be rick-dotted
<rick_h_> doh
<rick_h_> bah, this is why bookie_parser needs caching/storage
<rick_h_> wow, $70 python.org site redesign
<rick_h_> $70k that is
<brousch> geezum pete
<rick_h_> well, don't ever let it be said there isn't $$ backing python
<rick_h_> between all the sprints they sponsor, py3 porting, actual bid and company design work for the site whoa
<brousch> Kivy porting stuff to py3 is cool
<snap-l> http://michael.otacoo.com/postgresql-2/postgres-fdw-highlight-redis_fdw/
<rick_h_> yea, the fdw stuff is pretty sweet
<rick_h_> ooh http://pragprog.com/book/tbajs/async-javascript
<rick_h_> crap not another book...I'm so far behind!
<snap-l> You're behind? :)
<snap-l> New CHC launching tomorrow in Detroit 12-4pm
<snap-l> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups=#!topic/coffeehousecoders/RHEBahM2vEQ
<rick_h_> new CHC? cool Middle of the work day though?
<rick_h_> cool
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, that's a little odd, but might be cool to make the trek sometime
<_stink_> look corporatey.
<rick_h_> yea
<widox> hah. that's funny.
<widox> I was talking to a guy about CHC  downtown, I hinted that after-hours was the fun about it
<widox> maybe I'll walk over just to get a free drink :)
<rick_h_> hmmm, aws keynote is either running late or the stream hates me
<rick_h_> there we go
<rick_h_> http://aws.amazon.com/live/
<rick_h_> 410TB of data man
<krondor> ooh CHC Detroit, I'm probably going to be working downtown soon.. might be good to get out during work occasionally
<rick_h_> krondor: hey, you never replied to my PM.
<rick_h_> snap-l: suggested you might be interested in a steam beta for linux?
<krondor> hell yes?  hmm not sure how I missed that
<krondor> hmm that wasn't a question.  My brain is shot today.
<rick_h_> krondor: see pm
<greg-g> pi-shaw, 410 tb? that's nothing, HathiTrust has 474tb http://www.hathitrust.org/
<rick_h_> heh, well same ball park
<greg-g> but, it isn't unheard of/not special :)
<rick_h_> well it makes me double take
<snap-l> Wonder how many TB archive.org has
 * greg-g look
<greg-g> s
<snap-l> and how much of it is utter shit
<greg-g> oh, they have went over 10 PB recently
<snap-l> http://blog.archive.org/2012/10/26/10000000000000000-bytes-archived/
<greg-g> there was a big party where Donald Knuth played the organ
<greg-g> also, I would say that a crap ton of AWS is utter shit as well (see what I did there?) it is mostly stupid fucking startups that don't last a week.
<rick_h_> anyone find it funny that NASA/JPL talking at AWS when they work/worked so much on openstack?
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, this was instagram I think? or flipboard
<rick_h_> a big one
<greg-g> oh, what was the 410 tb referencing, exactly? /me isn't watching
<rick_h_> just the keynote intro where either instagram or pinboard was talking about having 8B objects in S3 and over 410TB of stored data
<rick_h_> so I got thinking what bookie would look like with 400TB of data and went 'whoa!'
<rick_h_> love tech conferences, where a guy can put a jacket over a t-shirt and call it a day to present
<greg-g> rick_h_: oh! that was just one user of AWS? not all of AWS? wow
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, one start up usage of AWS
 * greg-g was vastly confused
<rick_h_> sorry, I assume you're all in my office with me watching this :P
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I was being a bit harsh
<rick_h_> 100GB/s of web site traffic during the rover landing?!
<snap-l> Just seems whenever someone mentions CC music, they mention archive.org (which is almost impossible to search) or freemusicarchive (which has a lot of music that doesn't fit my taste)
<snap-l> (putting it mildly)
<greg-g> there's really not a perfect place for "cc music" as it lives in many places where music lives
<greg-g> I'd say archive.org wrt music is great for live recordings.
<greg-g> I have an IA baseball hat because I uploaded a couple concerts there
<snap-l> Oh, nice
<greg-g> they aren't there anymore, the artist's management changed and they changed their opinion on concert recordings and enacted it retroavtively. I was pissed.
<snap-l> Yeah, they're awesome for live recordings
<snap-l> Which band? Phish?
<snap-l> Or Umphrey's McGee
<greg-g> Xavier Rudd
<snap-l> unfamiliar
<greg-g> awesome Aussie
<greg-g> he's a one man band type, plays guitar, harmonica, didjeradoo(s), stomp box, etc
<rick_h_> yay lower s3 pricing
<widox> our prod db is 25TB at work...
<rick_h_> I love how the staples easy button is the official icon of 'easy' in this stream
<rick_h_> smoser: ftw http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/11/we-interview-daniel-ryan-director-of-front-end-development-for-obama-for-america
<rick_h_> "The cloud-init stuff Moser worked on was very helpful early on as well."
<snap-l> rick_h_: If only they knew... ;)
<snap-l> was re: Easy
<rick_h_> snap-l: oh heh
<rick_h_> snap-l: I wonder if this new redshift thing can replace a chunk of stuff at morpace
<snap-l> Nah, we're going to use terabyte notepads
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/28/stuffmicrosoftsays-dont-get-scroogled-launches-holiday-bing-campaign/?icid=trending3&grcc2=1e04f7a6bf3d881ac088be4cb97b8e9d~1354126753063~fca4fa8af1286d8a77f26033fdeed202~cbf1029a7d4b297e49ce839f73adf943~1354126753061~98~0~0~0~0~0~0~0~9~6~10~14~-1~-5767874609602884243~~http%3A%2F%2Ftechcrunch.com%2F2012%2F11%2F28%2Famazon-web-services-announces-redshift-new-data-warehous
<snap-l> e-service%2F~
<snap-l> OK, #1: Fuck Tech Crunch URLs
<snap-l> and #3: Can they PLEASE get rid uf Uncle Steve Balmer, the used car salesman?
<shakes808> Hello everyone.
<shakes808> Anyone know any windows scripting to check the memory usage from a process and be able to shut that process down, restart it, log it, send out emails?
<snap-l> shakes808: If it wasn't Windows... ;)
<shakes808> ...
<shakes808> you know
<shakes808> tell my job that lol
<shakes808> I found this code
<shakes808> http://pastebin.com/4H2pQTuG
<shakes808> If this is what will do it
<shakes808> I can attempt to modify this code
<shakes808> Never worked with processes and what not like this before
<shakes808> treading with caution lol
<brousch> Windows scripting to do it?
<shakes808> It is for a windows server
<shakes808> Glanced through that code that I found and it seems like it could be my answer. But again, never worked with this level programming / scripting before
<jrwren_> i could totally do it, but i've not time to check out what you posted.
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> gotcha
<jrwren_> ok, i looked.
<jrwren_> that is vb6. don't use it.
<shakes808> lol
<jrwren_> i'm not joking.
<jrwren_> jesus christ, it is vb6 with on error resume next. go murder the person who gave it to you
<jrwren_> shakes808: powershell is probably a good option.
<jrwren_> but I hate powershell irrationally (as apposed to the rational avoidance of vb6)
<jrwren_> so I'd write a little C# programm to do it.
<snap-l> jrwren_: QUick question: Is there seriously a SQL-callable process list under WIndows?
<jrwren_> snap-l: i don't understand teh question. sql callable?
<jrwren_> do you mean the select * from win32_processes or whatever?
<snap-l> That code had a select statement in it, suggesting to me there's a SQL engine for querying such process data
<jrwren_> been there since windowws 2000, yes. There is a name for it. it is not SQL, it just starts with SELECT and returns rows.
<jrwren_> its called WMI
<snap-l> As /proc is to the UNIX way, so is WMI indicitive of the Windows Way. ;)
<jrwren_> not really.
<jrwren_> WMI is /a/ windows way
<jrwren_> shakes808: do you do C# or even vb.net?   should be as easy as calling system.diagnostics.process.getprocesses
<jrwren_> rick_h_: that postgresql fdw is awesome. That was always a cool feature of sql server.
<rick_h_> jrwren_: yea, though I'm not sold that it wouldn't be better to just cron/queue loading data into a local store
<jrwren_> depends on if you want to sync and have teh extra storage.
<rick_h_> yea
<jrwren_> i wouldn't design things around this feature. It is a nice tool to have in the toolbox.
<jrwren_> not something I would look to actively apply.
<rick_h_> right, I've not had a production use for it but it seems cool
<jrwren_> i really don't think i'd use it in production. I think I'd more use it as a dev tool.
<jrwren_> I guess MAYBE a tiny bit in production, but I'd hate it :)
<shakes808> Sorry, back. Was talking to a co-worker about this and he is working on something already for this issue. jrwren: I got that from a forum, post is on the top and he is using C# for this program. It is an unofficial on his own time project, so that would be why I didn't know about it lol. Thank you for the input.
<snap-l> shakes808: Be very learly of forums for solving problems.
<rick_h_> cargo culted copy/paste ftw!!!!!!
<shakes808> snap-l: I know that is why I said that I was treading lightly
<shakes808> lol
<jrwren_> unless it is stack overflow :)
<rick_h_> and highly voted and recent enough to apply, etc
<snap-l> and blessed by jcastro_
<greg-g> I don't always use SE for help, but when I do, I use answers edited by jcastro_
<snap-l> greg-g: +
<greg-g> only one plus?
<snap-l> You'll get the other plus later.
 * greg-g pouts
<jjesse> does jcastro_ only post on askubuntu or does he live on every other stack exchange as well?
<jrwren> no offense to jcastro_ but i'm pretty sure he wouldn't know how to answer questions on stackoverflow proper.
<greg-g> jrwren: that's why i changed it to SE ;)
<Blazeix> i might be a bit late to CHC tonight. just fyi a new person with the nick 'Scala' is going to be checking us out
<widox> I'll wear something nice then, Blazeix
<jrwren> then again, i know jorge has wicked bash-fu, so he might have SO karam of 100k for all I know
<rick_h_> Blazeix: coolio
<rick_h_> jrwren: he's on the handyman site (jjesse)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-29
<snap-l> Good morning everyone!
<brousch> yessir
<jjesse> monring snap-l
<dzho> it's a morning, at least
<snap-l> That it is.
<rick_h_> ugh...zzzzz....
<snap-l> rick_h_: No sleep?
<rick_h_> snap-l: not really
<snap-l> Ugh. Sorry to hear that.
<snap-l> How's the afternoon treating you all?
 * rick_h_ loads up his shotgun
 * rick_h_ realized he first needs to get a shotgun
<snap-l> That good, eh?
<rick_h_> 2 more days...just keep telling myself
<brousch> And 4 more days
<rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD9FAOPBiDk&feature=player_embedded kind of funny
<snap-l> OK, so I got the go-ahead from JoDee to get a new chair
<snap-l> so, what's the latest and greatest in keeping one's ass off the floor in your home office?
<rick_h_> so not sure on the latest/greatest but these two are in my wishlist for one day
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Mirra-Chair-Herman-Miller-Featured/dp/B0002K11BK/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=2MA8O7BXBIDWH&coliid=I2N4BCPE0YX0SX
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Aeron-Chair-Herman-Miller-Adjustable/dp/B000LT80DY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pdT1_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=2MA8O7BXBIDWH&coliid=I18IWMXLWETVAF
<greg-g> geebus.
<greg-g> holy sticker shock, batman
<rick_h_> a good chair is $$ (which is why I don't have either of these)
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ONBT4O/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&redirect=true is what I got in 07 and it's done. I need to replace it but got the standing desk first
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think the Mirra is the one here at Morpace, correct?
<rick_h_> snap-l: is it? I don't know
<rick_h_> I didn't think so tbh, but not sure
<snap-l> It's pretty similar, if not the same.
<rick_h_> yea, slightly cheaper and it's a newer model than the aeron I think
<rick_h_> I ran across it in a list of suggested chairs
<rick_h_> the backs are different
<rick_h_> bam! <3 http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/29/not-to-be-outdone-by-amazon-google-reduces-its-cloud-storage-pricing-for-2nd-time-in-a-week/
<jrwren> ikea poÃ¥ng
<krondor> snap-l:  while you're in the market for expensive chairs; http://mwelab.com/index.php/en/products/emperor-200
<rick_h_> air filtering system, light therapy
<rick_h_> ummm...
<rick_h_> "huuuunnnnnn, instead of getting a VW Taureg TDI can I get a new desk/chair? It's cheaper (by $100)"
<krondor> well if you're on a budget there's always the more plebian Emperor 1510 model for $6K
<krondor> *hand built in canada*
<rick_h_> those canucks
<krondor> hmm capacity 250lbs max.  Are they sure they've got their market demographics right?
<rick_h_> yea, I mean if I'm going to get that it needs to fit both myself and my wife on it
<brousch> I did not need to know that
<rick_h_> sure you did, how do you think I tested out the motorized standing desk?
<brousch> These are not visions I want to have in my head
<rick_h_> cool, let me know if you want any more
<snap-l> krondor: I like living in my house, thank you.
<snap-l> I'd rather not live in my chair.
<krondor> there goes my plan for living vicariously through snap-l
<snap-l> heh
<greg-g> also, buwhahahaha, I now have sudo on all CC servers
 * rick_h_ runs in fear of greg-g 
<brousch> Time to reveal that you've been a mole for MS all along?
<greg-g> ok, what is the prefered brand/make of SSDs these days?
<snap-l> I think Intel is still tops, but not sure personally
<greg-g> k
<greg-g> thankya
<snap-l> np
<rick_h_> yea, I went intel still. They're no longer the absolute fastest but I trust them more
<widox> the two I've got are Intel, fwiw
<widox> ++
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> thanks all
<greg-g> hey snap-l, could you do me a favor with your ting phone? try calling 209-255-1000 and tell me if you get to Free Conference Call .com
<greg-g> I can't even connect, so if you get the freeconferencecall.com message, that helps me (at least, it lets me know I'm mostly alone with this issue)
<snap-l> greg-g: I have mine dialing out using Google VOice, and that worke.d
<snap-l> And it's working even without GV.
<snap-l> Not sure what to tell you.
<greg-g> grrr
<greg-g> that's the number we use for staff check ins :/
<snap-l> Oh lovely.
<snap-l> heading home. bbl.
<greg-g> laterz
<greg-g> ahh, 2 buck chuck to the rescue
<jjesse-home>  love me some 2 buck chuck
<jjesse-home> though its more like 3 buck chuck now :(
<greg-g> yeah :/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-11-30
<snap-l> btw: OMC is on http://metalinjection.fm
<jrwren> ugh, I think the old baracuda 7200.11 is failing :(
<jcastro__> rick_h_, hey
<greg-g> rick_h_: before you respond to jcastro__ , please build me one of these: http://i.imgur.com/OCxwL.gif
<rick_h_> jcastro_: what's up?
<rick_h_> greg-g: hah! There is a metal working subgroup of my woodworking group
<jjesse-home> evening
<jjesse-home> hey jcastro__
<rick_h_> TGIF!
<brousch> rick_h_: Rough week?
<brousch> First call of the morning: Help! My printer's not working!
<brousch> Solution: Push the power button to turn it on
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> good answer
<rick_h_> supposed to be the last day working on this private projects feature on LP so yea
<rick_h_> been rough week closing out the last issues
<rick_h_> and feeling sick today. THink my wife gave me her bug
<brousch> You keep getting infected via contact from this person. Perhaps you should avoid her.
<rick_h_> yea, keep thinking of that
<rick_h_> then she makes a pie and I'm suckered back in
<brousch> mmmmm, pie
<snap-l> Good morning
<dzho> don't be so sure
<jjesse> morning snap-l
<jjesse> wow said good morning to snap-l  and got kicked
<jjesse> apparently freenode doesn't think its a good morning
<dzho> kicked?  messages I saw called it a quit
<snap-l> Heh
<jjesse> all of my channels dropped after saying good morning :)
<snap-l> Maybe it's not a good morning after all? :)
<snap-l> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/spines_speech
<greg-g> I didn't expect I needed to start drinking so early today.
<greg-g> btw, g'morning
<snap-l> Nobody expects the porta-bar
<snap-l> But nobody can find the porta-john
<snap-l> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20554441
<snap-l> I hope you all sold your ZYnga stock
<greg-g> newb question: was does "{}" mean in bash (without the quotes)
<snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2188199/bash-double-or-single-bracket-parentheses-curly-braces
<greg-g> so, in this case:
<greg-g> find -type l -exec git annex reinject ~/mail.old/archive/{} {} \;
<snap-l> find's {} is different
<greg-g> ah, well then
<snap-l> that means take the result and put it in as a vairable
<rick_h_> it's magic!
<snap-l> er, not variable, vur rather put it in the results
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> thanks snap-l
<snap-l> np
<greg-g> that's what I thought/assumed, but I rarely run one-liners I don't understand fully
<snap-l> greg-g: You'll never be a Ruby develoepr, then. ;)
<greg-g> haha, glad to hear it
<greg-g> hmm, that find gives file names like "./something" the dot is confusing the git-annex reinject command....
<greg-g> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/845/
<snap-l> Give it a directory. I think that'll clear that up
<snap-l> find . -type ...
<greg-g> same :/
<snap-l> er, rather /home/greg/
<greg-g> ah
<snap-l> Otherwise it defaults to ./
<rick_h_> I will not commit murder over code...I will not commit murder over code...
<snap-l> rick_h_: I'm not sure that's a mantra you'll stick to
 * snap-l votes rick_h_ most likely to cause bodily harm over a commit message
<greg-g> I can't get rid of that dot :/
<snap-l> That's strange
<snap-l> are you using a dot anywhere in there/
<snap-l> ?
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://blog.ergatides.com/2012/01/13/relative-path-to-absolute-path-in-a-bash-shell/
<rick_h_> try that
<rick_h_> make sure to get that -n flag in there
<rick_h_> http://wiredrevolution.com/bash-programming/convert-a-relative-path-to-absolute-path-in-bash says to use realpath in ubuntu/debian distros
<greg-g> so, my issue was that I didn't trust that a filename like:
<greg-g> /home/greg/Dropbox/./Something/else.txt would work
<greg-g> the /./ in the middle, uh, was interpreted "correctly" in that the file at /home/greg/Dropbox/Something/else.txt was used
<rick_h_> ah cool
<rick_h_> yea
<greg-g> crazy unix
<rick_h_> dammit, wtf is with Java devs not happy until each variable and method name can be nearly a complete sentence?
<snap-l> LordKnowsWhyButIAssumeItIsBecauseJavaIsVerboseFactory
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/11/666-chip-why-a-texas-student-thinks-her-school-id-is-the-mark-of-the-beast/ <- and this is why I subscribe to Ars
<Blazeix> rick_h_: i'm dealing with some java code that's generated from a COBOL module right now.
<Blazeix> every single class name is like 50 characters wrong
<Blazeix> er, s/wrong/long/
<rick_h_> Blazeix: my sympothies. I've got JS code written by a Java dev turned Python dev and taking all will power not to hit the nuke button
<Blazeix> sad times
<rick_h_> yea, especially because this is supposed to be done EOD :/
<brousch> If you'd use a proper IDE that autocompletes for you it wouldn't be such a problem
<rick_h_> then I'd have two problems :P
<brousch> Let me help you set up PyDev
 * rick_h_ runs away
<brousch> You've done so much to help me use vim. I must return the favor
<greg-g> such a nice guy you are
<brousch> Talking like Yoda are we?
<brousch> I have a fork of something on github and want to bring it up to speed with the current version. How do I do that?
<brousch> I think I got it http://share.ez.no/blogs/virgil-ciobanu/how-to-syncronize-your-github-fork-with-original-repository
<jrwren> how can i use pyvenv-3.3 and have it install pip by default?
<jrwren> i think answer is use virtualenv not venv.
<brousch> jrwren: python3.3?
<jrwren> y
<jrwren> django-admin.py in my virtualenv says ImportError: no module named django
<jrwren> i wanted to play with 3.3 and django 1.5
<jrwren> i'm not aware enough to do so.
<jrwren> going back to 2.7 and 1.4
<brousch> 1.5 supports python3, but are you sure 3.3?
<brousch> I would assume 3.2
<jrwren> shouldn't matter much
<jrwren> 3.3 shouldn't break anything from 3.2
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-12-01
<brousch> I'm not having luck with venv in 3.3
<brousch> It seems to use system packages even though i set it to false
<brousch> jrwren: Django 1.5 beta works for me with python3.2
<brousch> virtualenv -p python3.2 venv
<brousch> source venv/bin/activate
<brousch> pip install https://www.djangoproject.com/download/1.5b1/tarball/
<jrwren> hrmf.
<jrwren> i was using django out of a git clone. maybe pip treats that different, or its just messed up
<rick_h_> jrwren: huh? you did a pip install -e to the git repo in a venv?
<jrwren> no, just pip install path/to/clone
<rick_h_> so if you do that it'll just look for the setup.py and install it
<rick_h_> which is fine, but you lose the ability to -U upgrade
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://www.mattfischer.com/blog/?p=319 for ya
<snap-l> rick_h_: Thanks. :)
<tony-smlr> Sunday Morning Linux Review is Live!!   http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCB0VMOf9Kw53CMh9bl4X5nA?v=LTBbojisxW8
<brousch> But, it's only Saturday
<tony-smlr> haha
<tony-smlr> we are also on #smlr
<snap-l> Y'know, for a Sunday morning show, ti's awfully Saturday.
<jcastro_> rick_h_: around?
<snap-l> Afternoon / Evening
<snap-l> reminder: Meeting tomorrow
<snap-l> Should be a short one, as I don' think we have much going on until next year.
<rick_h_> jcastro_: yea
<rick_h_> woot! plumbing day complete
<jcastro_> hey so
<jcastro_> I moved my blog from GCS to S3.
<jcastro_> rick_h_: any idea why my CSS would be busted? http://www.jorgecastro.org/
<rick_h_> looking
<snap-l> css = 400 bad request
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> is the old site up?
<jcastro_> yeah, one sec
<jcastro_> http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/www.jorgecastro.org/index.html
<jcastro_> oh damn
<jcastro_> I must have messed something up there too
<jcastro_> snap-l: how can you tell which file it is?
<snap-l> I was using the chrome web tools (ctrl-shift-c)
<rick_h_> jcastro_: yea, the link is bad
<rick_h_> there's no such thing as 700
<jcastro_> the 400 error seems to be from the google font snippet thing
<jcastro_> but that can't break my entire site can it?
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> the url for that is bad
<rick_h_> well, I wouldn't think so but looking through the rest
<rick_h_> fix one thing at a time
<rick_h_> you've got google analytics in there twice in the HEAD
 * jcastro_ nods
<rick_h_> jcastro_: honestly, it looks like you're missing a css file for the theme
<rick_h_> you've got a screen.css which seems to only do a reset
<rick_h_> hmm, maybe there's more in there. It's minimized and hard to read
<jcastro_> yeah
<jcastro_> but it's been working fine for like a year
<jcastro_> that's why I am suspecting like a permissions change or something
<rick_h_> well the files are working when I load them
<jcastro_> Resource interpreted as Stylesheet but transferred with MIME type text/plain: "http://www.jorgecastro.org/stylesheets/screen.css".
<rick_h_> hmm, csslint doesn't see any errors
<jcastro_> hmmm
<rick_h_> jcastro_: yea, if I cope that css blob into the HEAD inside of a <style></style> block it's back
<rick_h_> so it's about that screen.css
<rick_h_> jcastro_: wtf, your web server is serving the css file as a 'binary/octet-stream' file type
<rick_h_> jcastro_: wife's back. Have to help unload groceries. I think that file type issue is the root of the problem.
<jcastro_> ok
<rick_h_> the file type should be text/css
<rick_h_> not some binary octect stream
<jcastro_> ok
<jcastro_> fixing that
<jcastro_> it's just the s3 simple server thing
<jcastro_> seems to be the same though
<jcastro_> dinner, bbl, thanks for your help
<snap-l> Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read property 'parentNode' of undefined
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-12-02
<rick_h_> jcastro_: https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?messageID=353421
<rick_h_> jcastro_: using cloudfront?
<rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2618168/amazon-s3-is-not-serving-files-correctly as well
<rick_h_> looks like an api thing
<rick_h_> well possibly
<rick_h_> evening, working away wheee
<snap-l> woo woo
<snap-l> rick_h_: You did your plumber deed. YOu should be able to collect lots of husband points for that.
<rick_h_> heh, the trouble is that it's stuff I wanted vs her
<rick_h_> since I do dishes more
<rick_h_> now that we've got the new water softener wanted to update the fixtures little by little
<rick_h_> but yea happy me now
<rick_h_> good grief, this is some of the most convoluted pissy JS I've seen in a LOOONG time
<jcastro_> got it
<jcastro_> rick_h_: it was serving it text/html instead of text/css
<jjesse-home> so am i crazy for trying to run my VMs in NAT mode?
<jjesse-home> instead of just bridging?
<rick_h_> jcastro_: oh hmm, chrome said the binary thing
<rick_h_> jjesse-home: yes
<rick_h_> I HATE That
<rick_h_> oh wait..sorry I'm with you
<rick_h_> NAT ftw, bridging FML
<jjesse-home> so i want to be able to ssh from my laptop to my ubuntu server but i can't connect
<jjesse-home> and someone one askubuntu linked me to reverse ssh forwarding or something to resolve the issue?
<rick_h_> huh? not following
<rick_h_> you don't specify the whole vm/etc thing
<jjesse-home> http://askubuntu.com/questions/224391/unable-to-ssh-into-ubuntu-vm-running-w-a-nat-ip-address-even-w-openssh-server
<jjesse-home> from my host i want to ssh to my guest, it times out
<rick_h_> jjesse-home: ok, so is this virtualbox?
<jjesse-home> rick_h_:  yes
<rick_h_> jjesse-home: on 12.10?
<jjesse-home> yup
<rick_h_> http://askubuntu.com/questions/211603/problems-with-nat-adapater-since-upgrade-to-ubuntu-12-10
<rick_h_> stupid vbox bug in 12.10. network stuff is goofy
<jjesse-home> i have NAT working from a access the internet etc
<rick_h_> other than that, should just be able to install sshd (it's not part of the default install)
<jjesse-home> lol that's a question i asked earlier :)
<rick_h_> actual package is openssh-server or whatever
<jjesse-home> during install of ubuntu server i selected SSH server or whatever the choice was
<jjesse-home> i can SSH from my guest to my host, but not from host to my guest
<rick_h_> and sshd is running?
<rick_h_> on the guest?
<jjesse-home> yes
<jjesse-home> nmap localhost shows port 22 open and up
<rick_h_> hmm, sorry no idea atm
<rick_h_> I never got vbox nat working and just went back to lxc
<rick_h_> so not sure if there's more broken there or not
<rick_h_> but I use lxc in nat and don't need to do any special stuff to ssh
<jjesse-home> lxc ?
<jjesse-home> don't know that one
<billings> linux containers.
<rick_h_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LXC
<jjesse-home> does just linux run in LXC then or can i run other OSes?
<jjesse-home> say windows server
<rick_h_> no, I still use vbox for my windows test machine
<billings> lxc is like BSD's jails
<rick_h_> a bit, I think it's a little more kvm-y than that
<jjesse-home> oh interesting
<rick_h_> really acts like a nice lightweight virtualization
<rick_h_> I do all my LP dev in there.
<jjesse-home> hrmm ok
<rick_h_> so I have a kvm-like command to start my lxc, it boots and I can ssh or I can boot and drop into a shell for a default ubuntu user
<rick_h_> and work in that system, but it's actually kind of local. So I use gvim to cd to the lxc and I can edit the 'remote' files in a local gvim easily
<jjesse-home> thats fascinating
<jjesse-home> i was just going to try and learn some stuff and play around w/ Ubuntu Server
<jjesse-home> but apparently its more difficult than what i thought
<rick_h_> well, I think it's probably something in vbox :( but yea
<rick_h_> pita
<rick_h_> but go bridged and should work fine
<rick_h_> mine did, I just hated that the ip address moved wherever I was
<jjesse-home> and pray i don't conflict w/ anything onsite w/ a customer :)
<rick_h_> well that's dhcp's job
<jjesse-home> yeah
<jjesse-home> so this is all an issue since 12.10?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> at least I hit it then
<snap-l> I've become quite the fan of lxcs. I think they might replace some of the stuff that we're using Virtual machines to handle
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> .morn
<snap-l> Reminder: meeting tonight
<rick_h_> ah good to know
<jcastro_> http://i.imgur.com/BYoYu.jpg
<snap-l> hah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-25
<gamerchick02> maybe
<gamerchick02> a cat with allergies sounds funny. i'm sorry.
<cmaloney> No worries. She's our special little exception
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> it's 20 out. ooof.
<jrwren> looked through a dell catalog at my inlaws. i hadno idea their tablets are x86 atom based. I would like to get one and try ubuntu on it. What do ya'll think?
<rick_h_> very interested in it with the dual app screen business, but not sure it's far enough along yet.
<cmaloney> Hm, I probably shouldn't have an extension .jason should I? :)
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> buddy: "Do you think ADD exists?"
<greg-g> <little bit of discussion, we talk about some other things as well>
<greg-g> me: so what brought up the ADD question?
<greg-g> buddy: "Random side tangent on Reddit in an unrelated thread."
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> greg-g: hah
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> rick_h_: Time to switch to Django! http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/10/python-web-pep8-consistency.html
<rick_h_> heh, they must have had a refactoring in the last year
<rick_h_> last time I went in there I about had a fit and rolled on the floor for a while
<brousch> Didn't this come up when you interviewed Pyramid guy?
<rick_h_> pep8? yea.
<rick_h_> the debate is consistancy over making the move
<rick_h_> until you decide to go all pep8, you have to match the rules of the problem. So it just builds on itself over time
<brousch> What did he ignore? Was it line length?
<rick_h_> oh a few things I'm sure. I don't recall we went down the list
<brousch> I think line length was one. I found it extra amusing because of the PyOhio conversations
<brousch> Pyramid fares much better on http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/11/python-web-excessive-complexity.html
<rick_h_> meh, those blog posts are all just that wheezy guy trying to point out this his stuff is cool
<rick_h_> wish him luck on gaining traction or whatever, but he's just about doing charts that show wheezy at the low end
<cmaloney> Question: why is an article from 2012 showing up on the planet in 2013? :)
<cmaloney> Also: Full Text Feeds are A+. Let's do more of those.
<brousch> rick_h_: I've never heard of wheezy
<cmaloney> brousch: He's the dwarf that never calls and never writes.
<brousch> cmaloney: Old feeds popping up is usually due to someone touching their blog platform in a way that resets their RSS feed
<cmaloney> brousch: I know. Just being a dork.
<brousch> Speaking of dorks, did you play Ogre yet?
<cmaloney> No. I have to figure out where to put the damn thing first.
<cmaloney> I think we're also going to have an Ogre assembly party.
<cmaloney> This is the one item that really cemented that I have a kickstarter problem. :)
<cmaloney> But to my defense it was one of my early kickstarters
<brousch> I have curbed my kickstarter habit by only looking at ones that other people have mentioned. Do not search the site yourself
<cmaloney> No, that would be bad.
<brousch> Question of the day http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20192246/is-there-a-java-replacement-for-kivy
<jcastro> rick_h_, still no kitkat. :-/
<rick_h_> jcastro: :(
<jcastro> I'm kind of meh about kitkat anyway
<jcastro> I mean, there's nothing really big in it afaict
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I was curious how it was on a N4
<jcastro> you got it on your X right?
<rick_h_> honestly, not a lot to see or notice. Even the 'improved battery life' is meh
<rick_h_> maybe a few percent?
<rick_h_> yea
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> at the end of the day they can't fix my phone running java
<jcastro> :p
<rick_h_> and really, the only thing to see is the grey icons a bit.
<jcastro> I might get a Moto G in Jan though, to free up the N4 for ubuntu
<rick_h_> why not get a N5?
<jcastro> and tbh, the sculpted look of the moto you have is just too awesome to ignore
<jcastro> I don't really see the justification to spend that much tbh'
<rick_h_> yea, I do <3 the feel. I checked out waf's N5 and honestly I'm really happy with the size and hand feel of the X
<rick_h_> though I want to put it in a case because of the $$, but then I lose the awesome feel so I'm running free
<jcastro> these days I am finding hard to justify the price for the top tier phones
<jcastro> I really don't care that much
<jcastro> it'd be nice to go mid-tier for a while
<rick_h_> yea, I got the wife a droid mini and just let it be
<rick_h_> she's happy
<jcastro> at $179 full price though for the G
<jcastro> that's pretty much epic
<jcastro> the hw is basically N4ish
<rick_h_> yea, I want to see one
<jcastro> and the N4 is still no slouch
<rick_h_> heh, and I see the DE motox went down $100
<rick_h_> oh well
<rick_h_> http://www.androidcentral.com/motorola-offer-factory-images-developer-editions-not-void-warranties made me happy though
<jcastro> yeah that is awesome
<jcastro> so basically, the need for your phone goes away
<jcastro> I wonder if the motorola guys are like "let's be better nexuses than Nexuses"
<jcastro> That's a motto I can get behind
<rick_h_> sure seems like it atm
<rick_h_> and on verizon to boot
<rick_h_> we'll see when the next os update comes around what happens
<rick_h_> that'll be the true test
<brousch> I'm happy with my S3
<brousch> Fast and clean with Cyanogenmod. Android 4.3.1
<brousch> Ug. Blizzard outside
<jcastro> there's a bit of snow on the ground here
<jcastro> but nothing major
<rick_h_> yea, just cold here
<rick_h_> might have to change out of the shorts :P
<jrwren> cmaloney: Ogre assembly party? will the Ogre from Skinny Puppy be there?
<cmaloney> I wish
<brousch> My hands ache from the cold. It's a pleasant 43F in Portland
<jcastro> rick_h_, are you on wordpress.com or do you host your own?
<rick_h_> jcastro: wordpress.com
<rick_h_> jcastro: I've given up hosting my own
<jcastro> OMG
<jcastro> cmaloney, you run self hosted wordpress!
<brousch> Where's your Pyramid-based blogging platform?
<jcastro> I need a guinea pig
<jcastro> http://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/how-to-integrate-your-blog-with-this-site/1266
<rick_h_> brousch: man bookie or bust
<brousch> Is that competing with Discus then?
<rick_h_> brousch: no, just mean if I'm hacking on something it has to be something in the bookie universe
<rick_h_> too much code not written for me to do anything with a blog/etc
<cmaloney> jcastro: You high? :)
<brousch> I mean discourse competing with Disqus
<rick_h_> oh, no at least not directly
<jcastro> dang, I just need to find one lousy person with wordpress
<jcastro> but like, tons of people don't self host anymore I guess
<brousch> I have it on dreamhost
<jcastro> wanna try it?
<cmaloney> I self-host, but I'm not sure I'd want someone else moderating my comments. :)
<jcastro> well, it's more like flagging if someone is acting like an idiot
<cmaloney> I think it makes more sense for a planet.ubuntu blog
<jcastro> yeah it's just all the ones I can find are self hosted
<cmaloney> but I'm not sure what the benefit is for a little outsider like me.
<jcastro> and the work-hosted ones will take some time
<brousch> So what is Discourse? Replacing Ubuntu forums?
<cmaloney> (I wish)
<jcastro> I also wish
<cmaloney> Honestly if vBulletin disappeared overnight I'd be happy
<cmaloney> THere's only a handful of forums that I participate in and that number is dwindling
<brousch> Discourse is giving me a headache. Too many bright colors
<cmaloney> Apparently there's a new initiative in CC called "Team Open"
<rick_h_> team half-open!
<rick_h_> gonna kick team open's butt!
<greg-g> cmaloney: it's kind of odd
<greg-g> but, whatever
 * greg-g doesn't have all the details
<greg-g> they don't consult me anymore :)
 * greg-g goes to get some lunch and such
<gamerchick02> so. comcast increased my bill to over $100. i will call tomorrow and get them to take the services i don't use off.
<greg-g> huh, interesting:
<greg-g> "Shotwell's bug tracker has moved to GNOME's Bugzilla: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=shotwell"
<greg-g> I wonder if that is a good sign or a bad one
<widox> well, its Bugzilla; so probably bad ;)
<greg-g> heh
<gamerchick02> interesting
<waf> wow, you know how people lament about developers that just glue stuff together?
<waf> i just glued this together, and I'm feeling pretty awesome: files.fuqua.io/upload/collab/
<waf> er, http://files.fuqua.io/upload/collab/#81lkijurf6r
<waf> just glues together ACE editor with mozilla's together.js
<waf> and bam, p2p collaborative code editing
<greg-g> neat
<rick_h_> :)
<greg-g> p2p though?
<rick_h_> you're missing webrtc
<waf> webrtc
<greg-g> ah
<rick_h_> oh well then coolio :)
<waf> yeah, it's just using mozilla's free webrtc hub
<waf> oh wait, i lied. only the audio is over webrtc
<waf> the rest is just streaming websockets
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-26
<rick_h_> waf: you check out termbeamer yet?
<waf> i can't guarantee that the interviewee will be a linux user
<rick_h_> waf: ah, didn't realize it was interviewy
<rick_h_> waf: we use it for work sometimes. Do a hangout with that for editor/shell
<waf> oh, um, yeah. i didn't mention that in here.
<waf> :)
<waf> aw, no arch aur love for termbeamer
<waf> i'll keep an eye out for it though
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Do you have options outside of Comcast?
<cmaloney> because if you do you might want to mention them to Comcast.
<gamerchick02> yeah. AT&T but that's not an option because i need a stupid phone line
<gamerchick02> i'll figure it tomorrow. going to bed
<greg-g> photos of me with glasses! https://identi.ca/greg
<rick_h_> anyone on stable firefox?
<rick_h_> greg-g: pic looks good, I had to go glasses a few years ago. Just couldn't use my font size I wanted without them and the headaches when spending too much sign trying to parse blurry text
<jjesse> wahoo my Samsung S4 on Tmobile is downloading a software package :)
<rick_h_> jjesse: woot
<jjesse> 781mb
<jjesse> that seems pretty big
<rick_h_> yea, kitkat was a large update
<rick_h_> I didn't see the size, but took a while to download over the wifi.
<brousch> geez, that seems huge
<jjesse> thats what she said?
<brousch> cyanogenmod is under 200MB
<rick_h_> brousch: but doesn't include the google apps and such
<brousch> cyanogenmod is 175MB, gapps is 85MB
<brousch> So kitkat is still 2x bigger
<rick_h_> anyone on stable FF around and willing to do a quick test for me on the bookie extension?
<brousch> I can try it on windows
<rick_h_> brousch: the test is to see if you can click on the B icon in the popup when you hit the extension
<rick_h_> brousch: and does it open up a tab to your bookmarks
<rick_h_> another user is saying they can't click it as it won't do anything. They do show it hovers and shows the url thuogh
<rick_h_> I'm wondering if it works for me since I'm on nightly vs stable
<brousch> what add-on am i looking for?
<rick_h_> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/bookie/
<brousch> Hm, doesn't show up if I search for "bookie" in add-ons
<rick_h_> brousch: no, it's not reviewed yet
<rick_h_> it's about a 4wk backlog to get reviewed before it'll show in search
<brousch> Hm, I don't even get the B anywhere that I can see
<brousch> I'm on FF 22.0
<brousch> It might be the Enterprise Stable FF
<rick_h_> brousch: so in the bottom of the window should be the add-on bar
<rick_h_> brousch: and on the far right a little B icon to open the bookie extension
<brousch> ah, it is there
<rick_h_> the B icon in the popup only has the right url after you setup config
<rick_h_> because it reads your username from the config
<brousch> I click it once and get the "Add Bookmark" form, then clicking the B in that form goes to bmark.us/brousch
<rick_h_> lol, ok interesting
<brousch> Seems like good behavior to me
<rick_h_> oh, so it loaded it in a new tab?
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> I read that as in the popup itself navigated
<brousch> Opens a new tab to bmark.us/brousch
<rick_h_> cool, that's good then. What it's meant to do.
<rick_h_> thanks
<brousch> NP
<brousch> And the new tab opens in FF even though Chrome is my default browser, so that's good
<rick_h_> cool
<rick_h_> thanks for testing it out brousch
<rick_h_> I guess it's something off in the guy's setup
<jjesse> wow that update took a long time to download
<rick_h_> you go novell, attach that dropbox lol http://paste.mitechie.com/show/AgDVLlb9cdws2Lgst1iU/
<jjesse> this is something I work w/ every day
<jjesse> preventing ePHI from leaving the custoemrs network
<rick_h_> good luck!
<jjesse> hospitals are terrible :)
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<jjesse> wahoo
<cmaloney> Heh
<jjesse> so i don't htink i got kitkat?  about phone after reboot still shows android version 4.3 so i wonder what i just downloaded of 780mb
<rick_h_> wow
<brousch> video ads pre-loaded on your phone
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> "welcome to your new boot animation movie, with relevent ads to you. you'll want to reboot your phone all day long"
<jjesse> argh here is the update: http://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-5887
<jjesse> no kit kat
<rick_h_> lmao, galaxy gear support!
<jjesse> yeah 780mb for that garbage :(
<rick_h_> what is KNOX?
<jjesse> no idea
<rick_h_> Knox is meant to create a virtual partition on Android devices that would insulate corporate-managed apps and data from attack, an approach pioneered by smaller companies such as Divide but not generally used in mainstream companies
<rick_h_> nice, so you can now give samsung $$ for  watch and you can have your corperation blow it all away
<rick_h_> nice update
<jjesse> basically
<rick_h_> :/ bummer man
<jjesse> oh and i launched knox and its an additional 170mb download
<jjesse> so what was in the 781mb i downlaoded?
<brousch> maybe 4.3 -> 4.3.1?
<brousch> Anyways, that's why I put CM on my S3. Vendors throw too much crap on there
<jrwren> is it true there is no google apps on cyanogenmod?
<rick_h_> jrwren: you have to download them as a diff download
<rick_h_> jrwren: but they've built it into the setup process
<jrwren> not bad. i misunderstood the limit.
<brousch> http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Google_Apps
<brousch> Basically they are not allowed to bundle gapps with the CM ROM
<rick_h_> heh, and we find the scaling limit of couchdb http://scalenpm.org/
<rick_h_> right, I just meant earlier that it's not part of the d/l you see in CM if you were comparing the update
<jcastro> rick_h_, dang, they're shipping the moto g's on 2 december
<jcastro> that's pretty much the best phone deal of the holidays
<jrwren> will it run ubuntu phone?
<jcastro> it's totally unlocked so someone can probably make a build
<cmaloney> It's cheap enough to try.
<cmaloney> New CC licenses are out
<rick_h_> jcastro: no LTE :(
<rick_h_> dammit, "I can't duplicate this...for two days"
<rick_h_> "Oh, I didn't realize I was using the last stable release from weeks ago that doesn't have this code"
<brousch> At give camp a few weeks ago I kept thinking rick_h_ was there. Look at the guy far away in the middle of https://www.dropbox.com/s/c3hngy6ne1jptta/2013-11-10%2012.38.32.jpg
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> Wow, that's close.
<cmaloney> Not exactly, but damn close.
<brousch> I think he's a PHP programmer
<brousch> So a few years behind rick_h_
<cmaloney> And you didn't burn his computer right there on the spot?
<cmaloney> I'll bet he was using a Macbook tgoo
<brousch> I think so
<cmaloney> And you didn't burn his computer right there on the spot? For shame
<cmaloney> I thought we brought you up better than that.
<brousch> He was helping a charity!
<cmaloney> "Look, I know you're donating your time and all, but you happen to look like a friend of mine and he'd be happier knowing his doppelganger wasn't giving people the wrong impression. Now gasoline isn't itself flammable but the vapors are and ... "
<cmaloney> *FOOOOOM*
<rick_h_> wow, I better watch out or cmaloney will nuke me for making a poor choice down the road
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-27
<brousch> 4.4 just hit for my N7
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> heh, always check out your forks I guess. Interesting. https://github.com/waghanza/Bookie/commit/29a7d688cef495bfdfdea36bdaaba3be23bebc32
<rick_h_> holy crap! https://github.com/miso-belica/readability.py/commits/master
<rick_h_> booo, my makefile is gone!
<rick_h_> damn, it's working on py 2.6-3.3 https://travis-ci.org/miso-belica/breadability
<jrwren> wha?
<rick_h_> yea, that's what I said
<jrwren> openshift origin server.
<jrwren> its almost liek someone pushed to the wrong remote
<rick_h_> oh, that one
<rick_h_> yea, that one is crazy. At first I thought he was trying to openshift-enable bookie
<rick_h_> but it's just wtf
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yes
<cmaloney> Good morning
<monkeyjuice> morning
<jrwren> good morning.
<jrwren> trolling trolling
<rick_h_> getting the day off right
<rick_h_> hmm, I need to get that friday feeling on
<cmaloney> Who's trolling whom?
<jrwren> i've been out all week. last friday was my super friday.
<jrwren> and now I'm sick :(
<rick_h_> doh
<jrwren> trolling peeps about "ultimate nix display"
<jrwren> whatever that may be.
<cmaloney> The ultimate nix display was the 24" monitors I had on the Sun Workstations in the 1990s. :)
<cmaloney> It just said "I'm here to get shit done"
<brousch> Those were awesome
<brousch> I remember going into the computer labs at U-M. All of the Apples and PCs would be occupied, but tables of Sun workstations were open
<jrwren> what was res on them?
<jrwren> i loved my 1600x1200 19", but displays today are far better.
<brousch> I don't remember, but they were some of the  best monitors I had seen
<brousch> jrwren: Have you seen this? http://twolivesleft.com/Codea/
<jrwren> nope
<brousch> Looks pretty interesting
<brousch> It looks like what I want to make on Android with Kivy
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: I saw your email the other day, I'm just a terrible person and didn't answer yet. Sorry, not ignoring you. Will answer soon.
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: No worries. :)
<cmaloney> I'm just trying to get my go game on. :)
<ColonelPanic001> like, at lunch today. I just saw it in the morning, said "oh cool, I'll answer him when I wake up". And now I'm remembering again.
<cmaloney> That's OK. We have things in the trunk from when we went to Staples this past weekend that I still haven't remembered to take out.
<ColonelPanic001> I do that a lot
<ColonelPanic001> once it is in the trunk, it's out of sight&&mind
<ColonelPanic001> it belongs to the trunk from then on
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> Well, there's a roaster that's making its way into the trunk so the Staples stuff will be liberated
<brousch> Until groceries
<cmaloney> In the "nice problems to have" I love it when I mention Creative Commons Games and someone pipes up with "Cards Against Humanity"
<rick_h_>  /me looks at the latest add-on that arrived this week
<cmaloney> mem
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> Is there a mobile version yet?
<rick_h_> of CaH?
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> I'm not sure how that would work
<brousch> You get dealt a hand in a game with other people. One person deals the template and votes on the best
<brousch> Less fun than the real one
<cmaloney> It'd probably work about as well as a mobile version of Apples to Apples
<cmaloney> which is to say "not really"
<cmaloney> Apaprently there's a Facebook version
<cmaloney> so there you go
<cmaloney> And there's versions on XBox Live and PSN
<cmaloney> I am so leaving money on the table it seems
<brousch> It would work fine, but be less fun than live
<cmaloney> http://www.cahapp.com/#
<cmaloney> I have NFC what this app is doing.
<brousch> It does nothing!
<rick_h_> ok, this is awesome http://r.bmark.us/u/a3725958be84c3
<rick_h_> have to give the crooks credit and drones meet mainstream
<brousch> geez
<cmaloney> It's only going to get worse.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-28
<tony-smlr> smlr is are live Video http://youtu.be/3tkXYgvEMGk and audio stream http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> morning and such
<brousch7> yes
<brousch7> May you be more stuffed than your turkey today
<greg-g> ain't stuffing the turkey, that just makes uncooked stuffing
<greg-g> putting the fixings in the pan around the turkey
<greg-g> alright, back at it (got to sleep in until 7:30, catching up quickly!)
<rick_h_> happy thanksgiving greg-g and company :)
<cmaloney> Happy THanksgiving everyone!
<derekv> woot
<greg-g> cmaloney: the squeezebox software for linux isn't in debian/ubuntu?
<greg-g> sorry, enjoy thanksgiving cmaloney
 * greg-g goes back to looking stuff up himself
<cmaloney> greg-g: It's not in the main repo
<cmaloney> but you can get it via their site
<cmaloney> http://downloads.slimdevices.com/
<cmaloney> http://downloads.slimdevices.com/LogitechMediaServer_v7.7.3/
<cmaloney> That's the latest non-beta software.
<cmaloney> There's a 7.8 beta that moves a few of the plugins locally
<cmaloney> http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-29
<greg-g> cmaloney: ah, cool. I was actually looking for any of the client software that I've seen (eg: softsqueeze)
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> greg-g: softsqueeze and squeezeslave are on sourceforge
<cmaloney> though i use squeezelite
<cmaloney> good norning btw
<rick_h_> oooh, 4k come save me! http://accessories.ap.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=hk&cs=hkdhs1&l=en&s=dhs&sku=210-ACBV
<rick_h_> wow http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236338
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Daymn.
<rick_h_> well, at least one day we'll get non-HD monitors. Now if only they'd come down from costing more than twice the price of my liquid cooled desktop
<brousch7> 39" 4k monitor for $550
<brousch7> What's wrong with that?
<rick_h_> brousch7: you left about $3k off
<brousch7> No. I posted a link to it last week
<cmaloney> THat one was in HK dollars
<cmaloney> I wonder how the Dell ultrasharp monitors compare
<cmaloney> They seem to go on sale an awful lot
<brousch7> I came across this very interesting monitor yesterday: 39" 4K TV (3840 x 2160) for $550. Very tempting. http://goo.gl/f0bKreï»¿
<cmaloney> I don't trust Tiger Direct
<brousch7> It's also on amazon
<cmaloney> Ah, that's better. ;)
 * cmaloney just has a thing against Tiger Direct
<brousch7> That was just where I found it first
<brousch7> Amazon has good reviews of it too
<brousch7> http://www.amazon.com/Seiki-Digital-SE39UY04-39-Inch-Ultra/dp/B00DOPGO2G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1385739422&sr=8-1&keywords=seiko+39+4k
<cmaloney> I also don't trust reviews of products that are less than a year old
<cmaloney> s/year/6 months/
 * cmaloney still hold a grudge against BluRay too, but that's another matter altogehter.
<brousch7> So many trust issues
<cmaloney> yep
<jrwren> why hate blueray?
<cmaloney> Because Sony has gone out of their way to obfuscate the format.
<cmaloney> Much the same way that they did with SACD.
<cmaloney> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/BluRay
<cmaloney> That and I currently have a TV that only supports 720p so it's not going to give me much outside of a non-pixelated picture.
<brousch7> cmaloney: 720p? My phone has better resolution
<cmaloney> brousch7: That's OK. My TV is likely older and cost less than your phone. ;)
<rick_h_> and you look at it from about 100x farther away
<cmaloney> yep
<brousch7> My wife says she sees no difference between our 40" 1080p tv and our standard def 30" from 2000
<jrwren> does she wear glasses? contacts? has she had an eye exam?
<cmaloney> Howdy.
<jrwren> cmaloney: brousch7 wife is blind. did you know?
<cmaloney> jrwren: I had no idea
<rick_h_> brousch would be proud of me :P https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/KnaY6ZZhXdE
<greg-g> hellz yeah, got my new 24" 1920x1200 monitor today, and it looks beautiful
<rick_h_> greg-g: woot
<greg-g> so hard finding the x1200 part of that
<greg-g> how come I'm not being more productive already?
<rick_h_> greg-g: you need to get 3 of them
<greg-g> rick_h_: aha! thanks!
<rick_h_> glad to be of service
<brousch7> Go rick_h_ !
<rick_h_> :)
<jrwren> greg-g: ooooh... what kind of display?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-11-30
<hhyhqyq> .
<greg-g> jrwren: Acer B243PWL
<_stink__> rick_h_: you implemented your own sessions in bookie, right?  didn't use some other session package?  looking at code now.
<rick_h_> _stink__: well it's in pyramid
<rick_h_> look for 'remember'
<rick_h_> _stink__: in views/auth.py
<_stink__> ok yep, just saw that
<_stink__> trying to digest
<_stink__> thanks
<_stink__> so that tells the browser to set a cookie for itself
<rick_h_> _stink__: rgr, adds it to the header
<rick_h_> _stink__: but yea, farmed out to pyramid security
<_stink__> and ReqAuthorize is what checks for good credentials for whatever view callable needs it?
<rick_h_> well, request.username is populated by parsing out the header and finding who the user is
<rick_h_> look in bookie/views/auth.py:
<rick_h_> errr from bookie.lib.access import RequestWithUserAttribute
<rick_h_> that thing reads the user back out of the encrypted header, and then the lib/access.py uses a bunch of stuff to figure out if a user is auth'd or not for the given request
<rick_h_> e.g. your header can't authorize you to delete another user's account
<_stink__> rick_h_: silly question - how can i tell from the code that the headers sent back (generated by remember(), i think) are encrypted?  i just don't see that in the code.
<_stink__> i mean i obviously believe you just don't see it to understand it.
<rick_h_> _stink__: so that's pyramid's job and the type of security you use in that. There's a key in the .ini file you use that is the key
<rick_h_> auth.secret=PLEASECHANGEME
<rick_h_> http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/en/1.5-branch/quick_tutorial/authentication.html?highlight=remember%20secret
<rick_h_> _stink__: see the auth policy setup in the bookie/__init__.py
<rick_h_> http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/en/1.5-branch/quick_tutorial/authentication.html?highlight=remember%20secret
<rick_h_> errr crap
<rick_h_> from pyramid.authentication import AuthTktAuthenticationPolicy
<rick_h_> from pyramid.authorization import ACLAuthorizationPolicy
<_stink__> ahhhhhhh great
<_stink__> ok thanks so much
<rick_h_> _stink__: np, thanks for the refresher :) but yea that built in code takes in the secret and uses it to encrypt so that only the server can decrypt
<rick_h_> so obiously don't let that get out or people can build their own valid remember headers
<_stink__> ok cool.  and nothing special about this for API vs. plain old web session use, right?
<_stink__> i mean they look the same.
<rick_h_> _stink__: yea, just I don't use it to store data really
<_stink__> right ok
<_stink__> just valid or not
<rick_h_> so I've not messed with trying to keep track of extra stuff, it's either "You're a good person" or not
<_stink__> haha
<_stink__> wow this is a puzzle of many parts
<rick_h_> _stink__: yea, I had to think a bit to get it figured out again
<rick_h_> it's the kind of thing you setup once and then don't look at again for a while
<rick_h_> but be careful, bookie is part pyramid, part custom
<_stink__> yeah i needed an example badly
<rick_h_> so not sure it's the best overall example
<_stink__> that's ok
<rick_h_> but it does work :/
<_stink__> hah
 * rick_h_ wishes he could rewrite all his code every year to avoid that 'oh wtf was that...hmmm years ago' stuff
<_stink__> i see that the configurator is told to use RequestWithUserAttribute as request factory.  but i can't tell why user() in RequestWithUserAttribute gets called.
<_stink__> i think if i understand that i will be in a good place.
<rick_h_> looking
<rick_h_> oh! ok, easy. It's that @reify decorator
<_stink__> does that mean it gets run on instance init and substituted right away?
<rick_h_> it's a caching decorator that turns request.user into a call to user() at first, and then the cached value after that
<_stink__> i can't see how user() gets called at all.
<rick_h_> so anywhere you see request.user, it's hiting that once and then remembering it after that
<_stink__> OH
<_stink__> ok
<_stink__> the attribute is enough
<_stink__> fantastic
<_stink__> an explicit call to the method isn't needed
<rick_h_> https://github.com/Pylons/pyramid/blob/master/pyramid/decorator.py#L1
<rick_h_> yea
<_stink__> haha, have that one open already
<rick_h_> it's catching the __get__ (which is called when you do obj.property
<_stink__> smart.  love it.
<_stink__> ok, now to sleep and let this soak in.
<_stink__> thanks again.
<rick_h_> _stink__: cool, let me know if you need a hand or second set of eyes on some code
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> cmaloney: added a show notes doc in the lococast folder fyi
<rick_h_> cmaloney: sent the link to chris
<cmaloney> Woo woo
<cmaloney> We need more people bitching about OSS
<cmaloney> Then we can sell ads and make BIG INTERNET MONEY
<rick_h_> bwuhahahaha
<rick_h_> cmaloney: did you listen to the last "In Beta" had some good OSS complaining :)
<cmaloney> I haven't yet.
<jrwren> omg, watching my wife and 6yo play super mario wii is hilarious! its a laurel and hardy routine
<jrwren> i think i stopped listening to "In Beta" because of low signal to noise
<cmaloney> jrwren: You have a Wii or Wii U?
<jrwren> old wii
<cmaloney> (We have the Wii too)
<jrwren> you know how cheap i am, right? :)
<cmaloney> I'd send you my friend code but it's not like it does much. :)
<cmaloney> bbl
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> i've never really used wii network internet or anything
<jrwren> i actually forgot that it even had a net connection until someone mentioned it recently.
<greg-g> rick_h_: what 2-3 sentences of info should I know before I buy a cross cut saw (I honestly only have a coping saw, actually two)
<greg-g> huh, looked up saws on wikipedia, got this USDA Forest Service book: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/recreational_trails/publications/fs_publications/04232822/toc.cfm
<rick_h_> greg-g: you should know the size of the material you're cutting. Are you using bench hooks for cutting. Larger is easier to keep cuts straight and level. I use http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/16-inch-large-tenon-back-saw.html
<cmaloney> http://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun
<cmaloney> I think we're going to have a lot of fodder for tomorrow.
<rick_h_> heh, I'm staying away from it
<rick_h_> I'll only get into trouble
<cmaloney> Now I'm really going to bring it up. ;)
<jrwren> during our meeting?
<cmaloney> During lococast.
<rick_h_> I really like this thing http://antirez.com/news/64 and I asked Erica about it and my wife has set me straight
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-12-01
<derekv> checking out freenas
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-24
<cmaloney> Evening and all that.
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Heh
<jrwren> brousch_: ZOMG! I just saw your comcicon pics.  AWESOME!
<brousch_> jrwren: It was fun, but got too crowded after a couple of hours
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<mrgoodcat> morning
<cmaloney> t lsGood morning
<cmaloney> Hah
<mrgoodcat> TLS HELO: GOOD MORNING
<mrgoodcat> (disclaimer* i have no idea how the tls protocol works)
<mrgoodcat> i'm sure 'GOOD MORNING' is nowhere in it though
<cmaloney> telnet :25
<cmaloney> HELO decafbad.net
<mrgoodcat> or email style
<mrgoodcat> EHLO
<mrgoodcat> just to be different
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Regardless, good morning. :)
<rick_h_> any +1's appreciated http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/2nax5n/open_source_project_that_uses_sqlalchemy_and/
<cmaloney> +1 granted
<cmaloney> I am the +1 fairy.
<rick_h_> ty much
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-25
<cmaloney> Got this in the mail today: http://cloudkickermusic.com/album/live-with-intronaut
<cmaloney> *swooooon*
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> They parallel released it with Century Media
<cmaloney> http://www.metalinjection.net/video/carcass-goatwhore-hilariously-featured-on-cbs-elementary
<cmaloney> (OK this is hilarious)
<cmaloney> Also explains my day most days.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I've heard that walking desks can decrease concentration
<rick_h_> cmaloney: that's a good thing for me :)
<cmaloney> Then go with my blessing
<cmaloney> concentration /focus
<cmaloney> Good morning
<mrgoodcat> anybody see this article yet? http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30191218
<mrgoodcat> its pretty much the british intel services complaining because american companies don't make it easy to spy
<mrgoodcat> its nice and refreshing to see these companies not being awful for once
<akelling> About time they did not roll over.
<mrgoodcat> the complaints make me feel warm and fuzzy inside
<mrgoodcat> they complain about "complex encryption techniques" that make it hard to spy on content
<mrgoodcat> and such things that i'm wholly in favor of
<akelling> lol right!
<mrgoodcat> "Where there is a possibility that a terrorist atrocity is being planned, that argument should not be allowed to prevail,"
<mrgoodcat> in reference to companies saying they need to protect their users' privacy
<akelling> The possibility of X are crazy arguments.
<akelling> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/11/beefed-up-iphone-crypto-will-lead-to-a-child-dying-doj-warned-apple-execs/ - This artical comes to my mind also.
<mrgoodcat> what a misleading title
<mrgoodcat> wow
<cmaloney> Well, if it's only one child I'm OK with that.
<cmaloney> Just as long as the DOJ lets me choose
<cmaloney> I have a list
<cmaloney> (note: not really)
<mrgoodcat> lol
<akelling> hahahaha cmaloney
<jrwren> i do. really. its historical. hitler, 100 yrs ago. that sort of thing.
<cmaloney> https://gear.mozilla.org/products/mozilla-heroes-lithograph
<cmaloney> Such a deal
<rick_h_> such a good deal? famous work? /me doesn't know what it is
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-26
<cmaloney> I'm not sure what it is either.
<greg-g> man, phabricator makes being a quasi-product manager a fun adventure game :)
<brousch_> finally a hackable Linux tablet! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2019641820/raspitab-the-first-tablet-with-raspberry-pi-inside
<brousch_> 800x480 :(
<mrgoodcat> well the rpi probably can't drive a super hi-def display
<brousch_> It has hdmi out that powers 1080p
<brousch_> Many people use it for XBMC
<mrgoodcat> i was thinking more with the touch interactions and the inherently graphic interfaces of touch devices
<mrgoodcat> also, price is something to look out for. its a kickstarter not exactly samsung
<mrgoodcat> might not have access to great displays at an affordable price
<mrgoodcat> kind of expensive...
<brousch_> yeah
<brousch_> Linux is doooomed. Android will rule the client
<mrgoodcat> not necessarily true
<brousch_> http://www.techrepublic.com/article/system76-sable-touch-the-state-of-touch-support-in-linux/
<jrwren> but it soooo expensive.
<jrwren> i'd rather fund a kickstarter for rooting and getting cyanogen mod on cheap $60 tabs
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> $60? Can barely get a good keyboard for that, and thats a BT mobile one
<jrwren> I think it was.
<brousch_> The screens on cheap tablets are crap. Unusable for more than 10 minutes
<mrgoodcat> get the cyanogenmod phone
<mrgoodcat> https://cyngn.com/products/oneplusone/
<jrwren> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834686016  it was $54.99 when I bought it.
<jrwren> its garbage laregly because android 4.1 is garbage.
<cmaloney> Nice. Apparently even if you delete your account (as I thought I had with the MUG account) you still get the NFL Twitter message
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'm still on Android 4.1. :)
<cmaloney> Ah, I thought I'd deleted it.
<cmaloney> rectified
 * rick_h_ keeps hitting software update on his phone to get 5.0
<rick_h_> tablets are updated and I'm wishing for consistancy
<jrwren> cmaloney: zomg, how can you stand it? It is honestly the most infuriating user experience I've ever had.
<jrwren> Windows 8, is better. (I mean 8, not 8.1)
<rick_h_> lol, jrwren that's because you're not on 4.0 :P
<rick_h_> honeycomb I think was 4.0 and that was the release that shall not be named any more
<jrwren> yeah, so glad I never used 4.0
<cmaloney> jrwren: You also must've not used 2.4 and saw 4.x as a blessing
<cmaloney> 3.x was Honeycomb
<cmaloney> I'm on 4.1.2 on my phone
<cmaloney> All of the other devices are Nexus (Tablet, JoDee's phone)
<brousch_> I'm not impressed with 5 on my Nexus 10
<cmaloney> and likely my next device will be NotSamsungNotSprintCrapwareEnabled
<cmaloney> brousch_: I'm surprised they let the 10 have 5
<jrwren> brousch_: 5 is out?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Out for a week iirc
<brousch_> Android 5 is available for the Nexus 10, and 7 I think
<jrwren> ah, brand new. cool!
<cmaloney> I haven't received the upgrade to 5 on my Nexus 7 2012
<brousch_> Maybe not 2012. That is old
<brousch_> ANCIENT
<cmaloney> I heard rumors it might get 5
<cmaloney> I'm not concerned either wy.
<cmaloney> way
<jrwren> my phone is from Oct 2011 :p
<cmaloney> Mine is from whenever I started using Ting
<cmaloney> I've actually replaced the battery once.
<rick_h_> brousch_: yea, on the N10 :/ but my N10 is having issues as well
<rick_h_> but at least the buttons are in the same place between them
<rick_h_> and I can finally cast my device screen to my chromecase
<rick_h_> chromecast
<rick_h_> I'm liking it in the N9
<rick_h_> actually picked up this MS BT keyboard holder thing and sitting at starbucks using it as my computer atm to try it out
<rick_h_> gotta love MS for the hardware once in a while :)
<cmaloney> MS makes pretty nice hardware
<cmaloney> Still think the Natural Keyboard is from hell though.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> I just wish they made it with real switches these days. Oh well
<rick_h_> the kenisis will do for now.
<cmaloney> yeah, I like having all of my keys in one spot on the desk, thank you. :)
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch_> The surface Pro 3 fixed the Surface Pro 2 keyboard
<brousch_> Still slim and switchless, of course, but at least it has some travel now
<rick_h_> yea, this MS thing is surprisingly good for a mini-keyboard as far as feel goes
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_ liking a MS thing?
<mrgoodcat> stop the presses
<brousch_> If the surface pro 3 didn't cost $2000 I would replace my tablet and computer with it
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: We don't play the "MS is crap" game most of the time
<cmaloney> at least not with hardware. :)
<brousch_> Windows 8.1 is good with touch
<cmaloney> we appreciate and hate all hardware equally
 * brousch_ flees
<cmaloney> brousch_: INTO THE FLAMES OF PERDITION WITH YOU!
<cmaloney> HEEEEAAAATHEN!
<mrgoodcat> i see software hate is still in full swing though
<mrgoodcat> one of my work computers is windows 7 and most of the time I don't want to push needles into my eyes
<mrgoodcat> sometimes though....
<brousch_> Heh, I use win7 all day at work
<mrgoodcat> i have 2 computers on my desk
<brousch_> It's not bad VirtuaWin for multiple workspaces
<mrgoodcat> so i can use linux most of the time. but windows for certain things
<brousch_> I used to do that, mostly because our old computers were so damn slow. The new ones are fast, high res, and multi-monitor
<brousch_> Actually getting a 4k screen to test next week
<mrgoodcat> well i suppose that's something. mine are both pretty quick
<mrgoodcat> my winders machine is a dell latitude E7440
<mrgoodcat> < 3 months old
<brousch_> We have Lenovo Thinkcentre  M92Z all-in-ones
<brousch_> Core i5, 24" touchscreen
<mrgoodcat> i want leap motion
<mrgoodcat> with windows 8.1
<mrgoodcat> touch goodness without stupid fingerprint smudging
<jrwren> brousch_: http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Aspire-SW5-012-16AA-Detachable-Touchscreen/dp/B00NGK98GS/ref=sr_1_6?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1417016316&sr=1-6&keywords=acer+laptop
<jrwren> cheap surface 3 knock off :)
<brousch_> the problem is it is my only computer, so I really need 512GB of storage
<jrwren> if it is your only computer then $2000 is a good price point.
<brousch_> And 8GB RAM for android dev and virtual machines
<jrwren> or, go apple and spend the $2000 on the best mac book air you can buy and an ipad and use 2 devices :p
<brousch_> Hard to justify when my current laptop and tablets are acceptible
<brousch_> The airs have crappy resolution
<brousch_> Also only 256GB storage
<brousch_> I would go with the macbook pro retina
<jrwren> my air has 512GB storage.
<jrwren> it has suboptimal resolution, true, but i trade that for it being WAY lighter and smaller than an MBP, which I value more.
<mrgoodcat> idk my gf's mbp isn't exactly big
<mrgoodcat> and the retina display is nice
<rick_h_> jrwren: or get the 13" xps 13 which is air-like, better keyboard, much better display, and more linux friendly
<brousch_> A dell?!
<rick_h_> yea, :(
<cmaloney> brousch_: Lenovo messed up the THinkpad enough to make rick_h_ run away
<rick_h_> since lenovo took 5 years to kill thinkpads
<rick_h_> but kill them they did
<greg-g> the x230 is still way better than the xps, imho
<rick_h_> greg-g: I used mine with my son the other day and I did like/miss parts of it
<rick_h_> greg-g: but that display and thinner body is too much to give up
<jrwren> rick_h_: but... but... apple!  :]
<rick_h_> jrwren: but but but...sucks. I'm so mad at my air
<jrwren> rick_h_: really?  why mad?
<brousch_> The Lenovo Yoga Pro 3 is also nice, but about the same price
<rick_h_> because the screen sucks, the keyboard sucks, the performance sucks, the lack of linux support for things like their stupid pcie camera sucks
<rick_h_> maybe if I'd gone for the 13" air I'd hate it less
<rick_h_> but damn I hate this little 11" one
<jrwren> oh linux.
<rick_h_> yea, sorry but OSX is fail and I can go on and on about that crap
<jrwren> oh yeah, 11" is too small. My wife loves hers. I had one for 6mo or so and felt it too small.
<brousch_> Years of experimentation showed me that 12" is the smallest I like for a laptop
 * rick_h_ still hasn't updated to yosemite because he's afraid he'll rage quit computing once all that crap lands
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I'd like to think one OS upgrade wouldn't have you rage-quit all of computing
<cmaloney> but I'm not going to take that bet.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: have you seen the reports about yosemite? I love it. All the mac loving folks on the team having issues with blurry fonts, non working devices, stupid toy looking UI
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, I think there's serious issues in Cupertino
<cmaloney> Sadly I think they're going to go through several CEOs before they realize what they should have done is put Steve Jobs into cryogenic storage.
<cmaloney> and revive him once a quarter.
<jrwren> I LOVE yosemite.
<jrwren> being able to answer my phone on my laptop is awesome.
<cmaloney> Google Voice
<rick_h_> jrwren: uh huh, yea been doing that for a while now
<jrwren> and safari in yosemite is rather nice.
<cmaloney> Chrome
<rick_h_> and it works :P
<jrwren> rick_h_: yeah? awesome!
<cmaloney> Hangouts.
<mrgoodcat> yea. gvoice and chrome
<jrwren> other than that, yosemite is a nothing change.
<jrwren> gvoice, you need a gvoice phone number, right?
<rick_h_> I hear it's a minus change
<mrgoodcat> s/other\ than\ that//
<rick_h_> jrwren: you need an apple phone right?
<jrwren> rick_h_: yes.
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> jrwren: Of course you need a gvoice number. :)
<mrgoodcat> which is free
<mrgoodcat> and easy to obtain
<jrwren> so... someone has to call you on the right phone number.
<rick_h_> jrwren: my only phone number
<rick_h_> and I can use any phone I want
<cmaloney> jrwren: As opposed to your Apple phone which only gets called by the Paparazzi?
<brousch_> I felt sorry for the friend who upgraded to yosemite then took 15 minutes to connect to the projector that caused no problems for 2 years
<jrwren> my only phone number too.
<jrwren> ya'll be crazy.
<mrgoodcat> the number of people who have my gvoice phone number vastly outweighs the number of people who have my "real" phone number
<rick_h_> jrwren: and you be blindly not seeing the chains on the other end as well
<brousch_> Yes. 2 people have my real number: my wife and my dad
<cmaloney> yeah, I give out my gvoice number to everyone
<jrwren> rick_h_: what chains? google gives all your data to NSA. Apple doesn't :p
<cmaloney> few folks get the home number, and fewer still get the mobile number
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, apple just lets the NSA hack it out manually
<rick_h_> jrwren: "oops, sorry missed that loophole/firewall"
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: you're deluding yourself if you think the NSA doesn't have access
<jrwren> rick_h_: fortunatley there is no evidence of that.
<cmaloney> jrwren: goto. ;)
<rick_h_> jrwren: what?! seriously
<jrwren> seriously.
<mrgoodcat> yosemite was a worthless upgrade. my gf got super butthurt about it breaking all her things
<mrgoodcat> apps crashing now and wifi works like 60% of the time
<jrwren> that has not been my experience.
<_stink_> yeah the one mac guy i know hates yosemite for the same reason.
<mrgoodcat> oh she doesn't hate yosemite
<mrgoodcat> it just doesn't work
<mrgoodcat> she's a full blown apple person
<mrgoodcat> wifi not working is better because it helps her creative flow or some other bs
<_stink_> haha
<greg-g> "This sucks! Everything broke! Oh, I still love it, how could I not?! It's so sexy and expensive and such a great status symbol I can show off."
<greg-g> (not saying that's your gf, that's just me being crotchety)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Well, to be fair Mac folks have generally had it good
<jrwren> i've no idea what broke.
<jrwren> everything working here.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-27
<rick_h_> evening
<mthx> Anyone here familiar with launchpad?
<rick_h_> mthx: a bit :)
<mthx> rick_h_: Where do I find the sha1sum for a tar.gz on launchpad? Specifically looking at this package
<mthx> https://launchpad.net/~system76-dev/+archive/ubuntu/stable
<mthx> The package in the AUR [https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/system76-driver/] is out of date so I am trying to update the MAKEPKG manually, but I can't find the correct sha1 for 14.04.12
<mthx> At the moment, my shiny new Galago Ultrapro (Arrived this afternoon) is trackpadless, wifiless, and who knows what else it is missing.
<rick_h_> mthx: looking
<mthx> rick_h_: Ahh, just found it!  It's in the changelog
<rick_h_> mthx: ah cool, I was looking in the ppa build log but didn't see it on that package
<mthx> Neat. never manually reconfiged an AUR package before. Guess there is a first time for everything!
<mthx> btw, congrats on the jujucharm update!  I haven't had a chance to check it out yet, but seen it in the news quite a bit the last day or so.
<rick_h_> mthx: cool thanks, lots of hard work by the time. Hopefully starts to make finding and using Juju easier with a single home
<cmaloney> I'm not saying a fucking word (re: The video games conversation behind rick_h_ )
<cmaloney> Happy Thanksgiving!
<rick_h_> mhilton: wheee
<DrDaemonEye> Happy Thanksgiving everyone
<mrgoodcat> happy thanksgiving to you as well
<cmaloney> Whew. Sent round 1 home
<cmaloney> now waiting for round 2
<_stink_> like clearing the stadium for a doubleheader.
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-28
<cmaloney> Happy day after Thanksgiving day
<cmaloney> akak #000000 Friday.
<rick_h_> ugh
 * rick_h_ crawls back to bed so tired
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I see the cleaning pics on G+
<cmaloney> http://rs79.vrx.net/works/photoessays/2014/black_friday/
<cmaloney> http://blackfridaydeathcount.com/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-29
<rick_h_> c!m
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yes making room for the walking desk
<rick_h_> and kicking the wife out
<rick_h_> it'll be awesome, room for the whiteboards
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> But the keyboard museum...
<cmaloney> what will happen to that? :)
<rick_h_> dumpster show up wed
<rick_h_> and i've got a week to fill it and make room
<cmaloney> Holy shit, Debian is getting a fork
<cmaloney> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20141127.212941.f55acc3a.en.html
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Listening to Bandcamp Weekly and one of the guys from Red Fang mentioned that he used Linux on his computer
<cmaloney> https://bandcamp.com/?show=102
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> cmaloney: so my wife saw the keyboard G+ post and had to ask me about it over breakfast.
<rick_h_> "I know you're going to have a good reason for this, but how, how does someone have that many keyboards? And there's more?" lol
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, I'm the same way
<cmaloney> I have a bunch of keyboards
<cmaloney> some I've managed to unload and some that are still in drawers
<cmaloney> like the Model M PS/2 version that I can't part with
<cmaloney> Doesn't have a super key, loud as fuck, but happy to have it.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-11-30
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> evening
<rick_h_> man, the bookie traffic lately is kind of nuts
<cmaloney> I think it's because GSoC is heating up again
<rick_h_> well what's cool is people using it
<rick_h_> had people with bugs running their own, someone wants AD support, another person doing the irc bot thing
<cmaloney> Nice!
<cmaloney> Hooking up with AD, eh? That might be a fun one
<cmaloney> Have played a bit with LDAP but not enough where I'd want to see if I could get it working with generic AD
<cmaloney> But you can bet your bippy if we ever need a bookmarking app for work I'll be providing patches. :)
<rick_h_> well I'd let velruse deal with it
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/progmetal/comments/2nrqe4/this_guy_made_a_program_that_randomly_creates_a/
<tony-smlr> SMLR E140 (11/30/2014) -Going Live Soon- Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1oj-K0wxSo - Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> I wish I could get it through some wanker's thick skull (who happens to share my name) that he doesn't own "craigmaloney@gmail.com"
<cmaloney> Apparently he signed up for an EA account
<rick_h_> heh, time to buy some games?
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
<cmaloney> And I love that the email they sent to me is from an unmonitored account so sending mail back to them is futile.
<cmaloney> Just turned on two-factor auth though
<rick_h_> and the office cleanup for the long weekend is complete https://flic.kr/p/pY3gx7 phew
<rick_h_> and what a crappy shot :)
<cmaloney> Damn, that's one clean office
<rick_h_> so much crap thrown out
<rick_h_> one nice long open spot for the new desk to go into
<cmaloney> Nice. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-23
<greg-g> "actually having a real conversation with the producer of a radio show via twitter" is yet another reason why indie talk radio is best
<greg-g> thisishell.com fwiw
<greg-g> I love the Boot Liquor station on SomaFM. Current lyrics: "If I can't be the love of your life, I'll be the life of your party"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-24
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> no mr recruiter, i'm not proficient in Java, jQuery and CoffeeScript development.
<cmaloney> jrwren: You should be.
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> There's no future in Go. ;)
<jrwren> now THAT, i believe.
<rick_h_> jrwren: I got one for PHP recently and I had to think "could I write a 10 line working PHP program from memory today? ...nope"
<jrwren> :0
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Same with me and Perl. I could probably muddle my way through some code but it would take me a while to get back into the swing of things.
<jrwren> I've never used java or coffeescript in a professional envirnoment and jquery only minimally.
<brousch> I haven't even installed Python at my new job. I think I'm becoming management
<rick_h_> brousch: welcome to the club
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-25
<brousch> They grew from 2 to 30 people in 2 years and have never had an IT guy
<brousch> Now contracts require them to have real security and policies
<jrwren> brousch: sounds kinda fun.
<jrwren> brousch: big enough to have some money and interesting problems, small enough to keep out stupid huge "solutions"
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> Exactly
<brousch> The hard part will be convincing the partner company that things like Github are secure enough
<_stink_> my big company uses github.com with 2FA and is content with that
<_stink_> brousch: fwiw
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> snow tire season begins...
<rick_h_> cmaloney: chc tonight?
<cmaloney> That's my plan
<cmaloney> rick_h_: you?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea looks like it
<greg-g> 35 in Petaluma this morning
<rick_h_> wooo 41!
<cmaloney> Current conditions at Detroit City Airport, MI (KDET)
<cmaloney> Last updated Nov 25, 2015 - 11:53 AM EST / 2015.11.25 1653 UTC
<cmaloney>    Temperature: 48.0 F (8.9 C)
<cmaloney>    Relative Humidity: 62%
<cmaloney>    Wind: from the SSE (160 degrees) at 9 MPH (8 KT)
<cmaloney>    Sky conditions: clear
<widox> Sunshine and clouds mixed. High around 65F. ahhyeah :D
<rick_h_> heh just as i out snow tires on boty vehicles
<widox> its a good time to be in the south
<rick_h_> widox: where down south?
<widox> rick_h_: Savannah, GA
<jrwren> its hot out.
<jrwren> Savannah is my favorite city of the south.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-26
<rick_h_> evening
<Scary_Guy> hey
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> yo
<Scary_Guy> wow there are actually four of us, might be able to have an actual conversation lol
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> <3 Microsoft
<cmaloney> Apparently my domain is blocked because someone at Linode got it on the blacklist.
<cmaloney> so I can't send mail to live.com
<Scary_Guy> well that sucks
<cmaloney> I swear hotmail, comcast and yahoo are the whiniest idiots when it comes to domain blocking
<cmaloney> and yet the LCD when it comes to spamming nonsense.
<gamerchick02> happy thanksgiving everyone!
<cmaloney> you too!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-27
<wolfger> Happy Thanksgiving, gamerchick02, cmaloney, et al
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> Happy post-Thanksgiving
<Scary_Guy> Happy black friday.  where the deals are made up and the customers don't matter
<cmaloney> Who's line is that anyway?
<gamerchick02> so much for a day off. i've been helping my mom do some deep cleaning.
<rick_h_> wheeee
<cmaloney> Woo woo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-28
<cmaloney> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-11-29
<cmaloney> morning pt. 2
<cmaloney> On 2015-11-30, 19 hours from now, the membership
<cmaloney> of Ubuntu-Michigan (ubuntu-us-mi) (which you are the owner of) in the Verified LoCo Teams (locoteams-verified) Launchpad team
<cmaloney> is due to expire.
<Scary_Guy> #openbsd-us-mi then? :P
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Nah, nothing that horrible
<Scary_Guy> That's the only reason why I mentioned it.  my friend wants me to switch but I just can't bring myself to it
<Scary_Guy> even if it is the most secure
<cmaloney> Meanth the verification expiration isn't that horrible
<Scary_Guy> Still, two weeks notice would be nice.  then again I'm kinda new
<cmaloney> We had notice. :)
<cmaloney> Check scrollback from a few days back
<Scary_Guy> I didn't see it, so it's not in the log
<Scary_Guy> I must have been OL then
<Scary_Guy> also, I don't actually keep logs :/
<Scary_Guy> I really should since my memory is shit though
<Scary_Guy> anyway, bbl.  building a friend a new system and ruining it with win10 :(
<cmaloney> woo woo
<cmaloney> have fun
<jrwren> openbsd is more secure, it is also much slower.
<jrwren> "more secure" for some definition of secure
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-11-29
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morn
<cmaloney> how goes?
<rick_h> zzzz
<rick_h> sleepy today
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I didn't sleep well last night either
<cmaloney> sinuses = suck
<jrwren> i'm sleepy too, and I got a good nights sleep. what is going on in the world?!?!
<mrgoodcat> good morning
<cmaloney> btw: Bean and Leaf is under rennovation this Wed
<cmaloney> so if anyone wants to meet up somewhere else in RO please LMK
<cmaloney> otherwise we'll skip this week
 * rick_h has lessons so no go here
<cmaloney> Yeah, figured as much. :)
<jrwren> rick_h: oooh! where you taking lessons? private?
<rick_h> guitar lessons at the local music shop
<rick_h> yea, instructors rent out room space there
<jrwren> cool.
<jrwren> yeah, I saw your books pic.
<cmaloney> Yeah
<rick_h> https://goo.gl/photos/7j3sgXNNR8YXLWeu8
<rick_h> the boy in his
<jrwren> I feel like I've hit a platau on self taught. I should probably get some instruction
<cmaloney> rick_h: Where are you taking lessons?
<rick_h> I find that even if I'm mostly just going through the books, a lesson is on the calendar and I get to bug someone with questions/etc
<rick_h> http://www.mccourtsmusic.com/ in waterford
<cmaloney> Was wondering if we might know the instructor since JoDee taught flute at Evola
<rick_h> http://www.mccourtsmusic.com/eric-lockhart.html
<rick_h> is the guy I'm working with atm
<rick_h> though not sure it's going to work out. I need a bit more hand holding I think than his "well you could do this *riff/riff/riff* did you see what I did there?"
<rick_h> and i'm going "ummm, so this is D right?"
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I completely understand that
<jrwren> yup, getting past absolute basics takes a while too. especially with only spuradic practice times.
<rick_h> I've been good at 30min a day for the couple of weeks so far
<rick_h> hopefully will be able to keep at it
<rick_h> put the boy down for bed, play for 30min
<jrwren> that is good. that will get you learning very quickly.
<rick_h> the big thing is that there's so much to work on
<rick_h> notes, songs, chords, etc
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> have you played with yousician at all? it is fun
<rick_h> so feel like taking a nibble off a giant cake and wondering if you're making a dent in it
<rick_h> no, I just found the tabs android app and having fun getting a bit lost in that lately
<rick_h> oh hmm, app for your computer eh?
<cmaloney> Yeah, there's a lot of musician applications for the computer
<cmaloney> Jorge had something that would allow you to plug in a bass to play along with music
<cmaloney> Sort of like Rock Band / Guitar Hero, but with a real instrument, and more forgiving
<_stink_> sorry, but computers will never catch on.  they are too hard to use.
<rick_h> nice
<cmaloney> _stink_: I'm waiting for the Soroban to make a comeback
<cmaloney> nice clean interface
<_stink_> yes!  and satisfying sound effects.
<cmaloney> Had a second interview with a company. Whee.
<rick_h> woot!
<greg-g> cmaloney: nice
<cmaloney> We'll see
<cmaloney> it's referral marketing, so it already feels dirty
<cmaloney> but then again, I worked for Market Research for 4 years 8 months (but who's counting) so ... ;)
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> for a few months before grad school I temp'd at a market research firm, doing semi-cold calls (to people already in our database, but still) doing the pre-screen interview. Such horrible work.
<cmaloney> Also learning that I need to follow the "folk" tag on Bandcamp as some metal-esque bands don't tag as metal
<cmaloney> Blergh
<cmaloney> greg-g: Which firm, if I might ask?
<greg-g> oh god... uh
<cmaloney> Where was it located?
<greg-g> something in minneapolis, a small outfit
<cmaloney> Ah, OK
<cmaloney> Thought it might have been Morpace. ;)
<greg-g> all they did was: get the right demographic, bring them in to do the in-person group interview thing, summarize and send report to the company
<cmaloney> Yup
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-12-01
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> How goes?
<_stink_> eh, busy
<_stink_> you?
<cmaloney> not mugh going on. Whee.
 * greg-g yawns
<cmaloney> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-12-02
<cmaloney> yo
<_stink_> hello
<user2> hi is there someone here who can walk me through installing nvidia proprietary drivers?
<gamerchick02> user2, you should be able to go to the settings, pick the drivers option, and install them that way
<gamerchick02> i'm on windows right this minute so i'm not exactly sure
<user2> yeah the system update thing right?
<user2> I go there and there is a proprietary driver available, but selecting it and rebooting leads me to a blank screen/boot hang issue
<gamerchick02> hrm, i think that's above my pay grade. cmaloney or greg-g can you help?
<greg-g> user2: first step I would do is search for the exact make/model of your computer and "nvidia ubuntu howto" in google, see if others are having the same issue
<user2> www.pastebin.com/nWgDL6TL
<user2> www.pastebin.com/ZATXSMGH
<greg-g> did you do what I suggested?
<user2> yes
<user2> seems like there is a variety of solutions
<user2> ive checked a few of them already but couldn't make anything of it, which is why i came to the irc chats
<greg-g> so, there are many reports of it not working then, any documentation on official looking websites like wiki.ubuntu.com or similar?
<greg-g> documentation on how to get it working, that is
<greg-g> ftr: it doesn't always work
<user2> most people seem to work through ppa repositories
<user2> I got the same issue I have now when I tried to do that
<greg-g> sounds like a gamble at this point, afaik
<greg-g> if PPAs are the proposed solution
<user2> another solution suggested disabling secure boot, but I checked BIOS and couldn't find anything regarding boot security
<user2> hahaha shit I don't gamble often
<greg-g> user2: honestly, I haven't futzed with nvidia on linux since.... oh man, 2007? Others might weigh in with more advice later if they see this
<user2> well thanks for your help
<user2> hopefully the arizona channel can help me
<greg-g> godspeed
<user2> sudo modprobe nvidia returns : FATAL: Module nvidia not found in directory /lib/modules/4.4.0-51-generic
<user2> does this mean anything to you?
<greg-g> I haven't messed with modprobe in just about as long :)
 * greg-g is a happy thinkpad/intel user :)
<gamerchick02> i've not had to either, come to think of it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-12-03
<cmaloney> I currently use NVidia, but I use the alternate drivers
<cmaloney> user2 ^^
<cmaloney> but I also have a machine from 2012
<user2> you use the open source drivers?
<cmaloney> I use the proprietary drivers on one machine
<cmaloney> and the Noveau drivers on my laptop
<cmaloney> The noveau drivers are decent for non-gaming tasks
<cmaloney> and the proprietary stuff works for gaming and what-not
<user2> I would be happy with nouveau but it wont fit my screen properly
<user2> system settings gives me 'unknown display'
<user2> it wont let me set a custom display over something like 600x800 either
<user2> i guess its time to read into nouveau stuff
<cmaloney> Yeah, I didn't have nearlt this much trouble.
<greg-g> remember when this was all we ever talked about? :)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> yes
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<cmaloney> Reminder: meeting tomorrow at 9pm
<cmaloney> https://www.reddit.com/r/Detroit/comments/5g5wl4/elf_for_hire/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-12-04
<_stink_> haha
<tony-smlr> We are live!  SMLR E217/218 - Time is running out for NTP - http://www.youtube.com/c/SmlrUs/live
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<jrwren> yo
<cmaloney> I love my parents
<cmaloney> Dad called to let me know there's a "Certified Ethical Hacking" class at Oakland University
<cmaloney> explained to my mom that if I was interested in hacking I'd be in jail.
<cmaloney> and that it's the equivalent of being a "Certified Ethical Mob Boss" for law enforcement
<cmaloney> the good ones are far more creative than what you'd get in a class.
<_stink_> oh c'mon. you are interesting in hacking aren't you?
<_stink_> you just have chosen not to.
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's it. :)
<brousch__> cmaloney: I feel the same way, about security in general. If I were interested in it, I would already be doing it by this point in my career
<jrwren> 10 yrs ago i'd have been curious who is teaching said class. Hopefully it was no one I knew.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-11-27
<jrwren> I got new disks on black friday. I'm going to redo my home storage and I can't decide if I should continue using janky LVM and just carve out mirrors from the new disks (pros: familiar)  or use md mirror (pros: simple)  or use zfs (pros: new & neato)
<brousch> Put it all in the cloud and let Amazon worry about it
<jrwren> *eyeroll*
<mrgoodcat> what are you storing?
<mrgoodcat> i haven't found i have a real need for home storage in years
<mrgoodcat> other than a single drive i use for my local backups
<brousch> jrwren: Yeah, actually I let Google handle it
<mrgoodcat> yea google handles my photos
<mrgoodcat> I also have local copies, but they just don't take up enough space to justify a NAS
<mrgoodcat> i don't do any video or anything so my space requirements are pretty small
<mrgoodcat> i also don't plex
<jrwren> smh.
<jrwren> Scary_Guy will understand.
<jrwren> but then he'll probably tell me he uses BSD for such things. ;)
<jrwren> storing 7.1TB of video, growing, mostly slowly.
<mrgoodcat> plex stuff?
<jrwren> family video
<jrwren> i don't use plex
<jrwren> only $167/mo for S3.  HA!
<jrwren> so, brousch advice was terrible for me.  thanks for nothing, brousch. :p
<brousch> Is it terrible? What price can you put on your memories?
<jrwren> not $167/mo.
<jrwren> its easy to put a price on memories: can I afford this? no.
<jrwren> gee, I put a price on it.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> cmaloney: good morning. What do you think about storage?
<cmaloney> I have two Synology RAID devices in the basement for storage
<cmaloney> and a 2TB drive in my main machine for music
<cmaloney> It's not perfect by any stretch
<cmaloney> I've also used md and it's pretty decent. That's what I use for my home directory on my desktop
<cmaloney> md mirror
<jrwren> synology is great. It is what I modeled my current LVM usage after.
<jrwren> I guess the real question I have is: am I ready for zfs and is it ready for me?
<jrwren> its too big an unknown. I think I'll stick with what I know and what works.
<Scary_Guy> https://u.cubeupload.com/vAXHZK.png
<jrwren> reiserfs it is.
<brousch> ohmy
<Scary_Guy> I like to look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems and compare things listing pros and cons of each.  Also, WTF is NOVA?
<Scary_Guy> well, it sounds neat
<cmaloney> I'm surprised Andrew Filesystem didn't catch on more
 * cmaloney remembers seeing a presentation about Andrew File system at an Ohio Linuxfest and coming out of the presentation even more confused.
<Scary_Guy> BTRFS still looks like the best option to me, ZFS/HAMMER are fine too
<mrgoodcat> anybody got a mtb light they recommend? broek mine this weekend :(
<greg-g> mountain bike?
<greg-g> how'd it break?
<Scary_Guy> I was just about to ask
<mrgoodcat> dropped on the pavement
<mrgoodcat> trying to take it off the bike that was mounted on the roofrack
<mrgoodcat> butterfingered it
<Scary_Guy> ouch, and that ruined it?  I'd avoid that brand
<mrgoodcat> well i mean
<mrgoodcat> its like a 12 foot drop
<mrgoodcat> onto concrete
<mrgoodcat> maybe not 12
<mrgoodcat> but 9 at least
<Scary_Guy> 6 at most probably, I'm taller than most car roofs
<mrgoodcat> are you taller than a suburban with a bike on it?
<Scary_Guy> I'm close, but probably not bike rack/bike on it no
<Scary_Guy> anyway Pelican makes some great lights.  Not for the bike, just in general.  I guess you could duct tape it to the bars though :p
<mrgoodcat> how fuckin tall are you?
<mrgoodcat> just the truck is 6ft + rack + bike
<mrgoodcat>  lol pelican doesn't make any with bar mounts?
<mrgoodcat> oh i see they're a hardware brand
<mrgoodcat> work lights and such
<jrwren> i guess his height at 6'5"
<Scary_Guy> close, 6'3"
<Scary_Guy> taller than many but still fairly average
<jrwren> the hat adds 2 inches?
<Scary_Guy> I could probably be a CEO of a company because of my boobs, I mean height
<jrwren> or POTUS!
<Scary_Guy> also the cowboy boots have about an inch of a heel
<Scary_Guy> that too
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_vcy7I0zIM
<cmaloney> Yeah, Scary_Guy is taller than I am
<Scary_Guy> and my dick's bigger too :p
<cmaloney> Ahem.
 * jrwren points to the CoC
<Scary_Guy> chamber of commerce?
<jrwren> https://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct
<Scary_Guy> https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Offended :p (nsfw, obviously)
<jrwren> I prefer the stephen fry offended diatribes
<Scary_Guy> I like Stephen Fry in general
<Scary_Guy> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/welcome-to-the-internet was good too, that rant is legendary
<Scary_Guy> https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt is classic, but outdated.
<Scary_Guy> personally I'm very libertarian on things and think the free exchange of ideas is paramount.  Also there is always room for a good joke as long as it's all in good fun
<Scary_Guy> but to each their own and I respect the conservative nature of official channels such as this.  this isn't 4chan/reddit after all
<cmaloney> ty
<jrwren> i was only reminding, not chastizing.
<jrwren> no lines crossed, just acknowledging getting close to a grey area.
<jrwren> I thought it was a funny joke, but I don't know if everyone would take it the same way.
<jrwren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XOaYMkz5Cc makes me laugh every time.
<Scary_Guy> I think most people on IRC are mature enough to see it as such
<greg-g> at the same time, it's not the most welcoming of language to non-male-locker-room-desensitized people. :/
<jrwren> whoo hoo! new cable modem docsis 3!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-11-28
<Scary_Guy> welcome to the ability to have reasonable speeds, not that you'll get them after the FCC FSCK's the internet
<jrwren> speeds exactly the same as with old modem. :)
<jrwren> but at least if i want to pay for faster i will get it.
<jrwren> zomg, do NOT use -D option on mkfs.ext4 if you want it to go fast.
<Scary_Guy> they wouldn't give me a new modem, so I upgraded my speed and they had to so I could utilize it.  of course after upgrading I didn't want to go back
<jrwren> oh, i buy my modem instead of rent.
<jrwren> over the years it saved some money, but... i've also heard of people's bought modems going bad, in which case, you lose money :(
<Scary_Guy> apparently they say we can't use our own because we use VOIP, which is bullshit
<jrwren> huh... that... is... weird... is it comcast?
<greg-g> phones are super effing expensive
<Scary_Guy> these days yes, seems like that's the plan though.  budget phones are still crap and flagships cost what they used to before things got stupid cheap
<Scary_Guy> I suppose you can thank iPhone for that
<jrwren> i dunno.  $399 iphone is cheap for what you get IMO.
<jrwren> and there are the free and $1 flip phones out there still. phones seem cheap.
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> I think the big issue is the disparity between the "cheap" phones and the flagship phones
<cmaloney> It's either "This is the same stuff that we were flogging two years ago" or "This is a phone that now costs as much as a house payment"
<jrwren> flagship phones are stupid.
<jrwren> its like saying cars are expensive because a mclauren costs 250k
<Scary_Guy> I like to get last generation flagship phones because they still work well and are cheap.  now I like getting them from two generations ago
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-11-29
<cmaloney> Good AM
<jrwren> Good morning.
<greg-g> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oct2xKMGOno
<cmaloney> greg-g: TF?
<greg-g> :) :) :)
<greg-g> I have no idea, just a teammate pasted it this morning. I had to share.
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-11-30
<jrwren> LMAO... i never noticed the k8s logo has 7 sides... amazon's k8s service logo has 6 sides.
<jrwren> heptagon has 7 sides. heptio logo... is at least a 7 w/ mirror image, but they do k8s... so they are k8s minus 1.
<jrwren> which side are they missing?
<Scary_Guy> N64 logo is best logo
<Scary_Guy> https://i.imgur.com/zVJb8.jpg
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren_> Good morning.
<mrgoodcat> morning
<mrgoodcat> rick_h: what do you think are the chances you'll still have that santa cruz in the spring?
<rick_h> mrgoodcat: good, put it in storage for the winter
<rick_h> Cleaned it up, put a new chain on it, got it out of the way for now
<jrwren> its late 2017 and there is still no Choco Cookie webfont in a CDN. My faith in the open web has died.
<Scary_Guy> not yet, wait until they kill Net Neutrality, then it can die
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-12-01
<greg-g> le sigh
<cmaloney> morning
<brousch> indeed
<cmaloney> \m/
<waldo323> cheers
<jrwren> Good morning.
<cmaloney> waldo323: Hey, long time no see! :)
<cmaloney> (in IRC that is)
<cmaloney> Finally got JoDee's phone back from LG
<cmaloney> glad they fixed it, but a little upset those fsckers stole the original box I shipped it in.
<cmaloney> since it had the lovely little sim removal tool. :(
<waldo323> cmaloney, good to be back.  tough lesson regarding the phone, typically I'll only send the phone and any specified parts otherwise I hold on to them
<jrwren> ya know... that is a good point. I sometimes save original boxes for that purpose, but i've never had one returned to me. They won't save it and return it to you.
<mrgoodcat> seem sort of silly tbh
<mrgoodcat> i'm almost surprised they don't send it back in the normal packaging anyways
<mrgoodcat> since its like purpose built to protect the phone in shipping
<cmaloney> Probably because it's fedex and they pay by the mm or some shit
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> i hate fedex
<mrgoodcat> it actually prevents me from using certain online stores
<mrgoodcat> i'll do just about anything to use ups instead
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
<mrgoodcat> ups has a key to my apartment building. fedex does not. also i've now had twice where i stayed home to receive a package from fedex and it was marked as "unable to deliver, recipient not home" with no door tag left
<mrgoodcat> which is just downright unacceptable
<cmaloney> The delivery dude knocked and was literally holding the "sucks to be you" tag, ready to affix on the door
<cmaloney> Sorry bud, but that is not an atomic operation
<mrgoodcat> i wouldn't mind if that was the case so much. i understand the dudes in a hurry i guess. but i mean i was home and nobody ever knocked or buzzed and there was no door tag left
<mrgoodcat> they simply didn't come
<cmaloney> and then he hands me a pen to write on their device to sign
<cmaloney> so I likely scratched it.
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I really hate that mentality
<mrgoodcat> i've read online that the drivers will mark deliveries as unsuccessful if they're running behind because then they aren't held accountable for the late delivery
<mrgoodcat> because they're penalized for not delivering their quota
<cmaloney> But yeah, I've had instances where fedex was "unable to deliver" when they barely made any ripples near the porch
<cmaloney> I'm still al little salty about the CD that Amazon sent that somehow got lost in Romulus
<cmaloney> I hope you enjoy Revocation, ya bastards
<mrgoodcat> fedex takes a coveted spot above comcast and verizon for "most hated company" in my house
<cmaloney> I think DHL is somewhere in that mix
<mrgoodcat> ah i've not had too much experience with dhl
<cmaloney> That's in part because they're the one company that sucks worse than Fed Ex
<mrgoodcat> haha
<cmaloney> FedEx is great for businesses because they make packages disappear better than anyone
<cmaloney> DHL is just a burden on both sides of that transaction
<cmaloney> So I understand why FedEx gets used a lot, but they're a pain for anyone that isn't a business.
<mrgoodcat> amazon uses ups at least for my address so that's 99% of my online spending covered
<mrgoodcat> and ups can deliver to my apartment when i'm not home so i don't have to stay home for a day
<jrwren> i get lots of USPS from amazon now.
<cmaloney> I <3 usps when they don't completely fuck up
<cmaloney> eg: send a priority-mail package to Florida instead of Texas
<cmaloney> I can understand why though: they totally look the same. ;)
<cmaloney> Got my first consulting check today. W00t!
<cmaloney> I'm no longer a complete burden to society!
<cmaloney> \o/
<_stink_> o/o/
<mrgoodcat> |m|/
<mrgoodcat> rick_h: oh i missed your response (even though it was only like 2 minutes after my question). thanks for letting me know. i'm currently going through the process of agonizing over bike choices :)
<mrgoodcat> ideally i'd be going for a short travel FS carbon 1x or possibly 2x with components taht aren't too garbage
<mrgoodcat> like SRAM GX or Shimano SLX or better
<mrgoodcat> i'll probably have to compromise to stay within budget though
<rick_h> mrgoodcat: always happy to chat bikes. Yea I just got my Ibis mojo 3, 1x eagle
<rick_h> mrgoodcat: but yea, eagle gx is good stuff in the more entry bikes
<rick_h> mrgoodcat: what are you looking at? Giant has some good budget offerings.
<rick_h> Good price to perf, diamondback has a new one that's carbon as well.
<mrgoodcat> yea diamondback has some really good deals
<mrgoodcat> i get a corporate discount on their website too
<mrgoodcat> varies bike to bike but the overdrive carbon pro 29er is only 1904 after the discount
<rick_h> Nice, they've got a build a bike thing on their site which is cool
<rick_h> I was thinking release 3? I'd have to look.
<mrgoodcat> i've also got a line on a 20% discount at ACF (which means trek)
<rick_h> Cool
<mrgoodcat> yea the release is their FS that i was looking at
<mrgoodcat> i'm a bit torn between FS and hardtail at the moment
<mrgoodcat> I think i've pretty much come to grips with the fact that my budget will probably dictate an aluminum bike if i go FS
<rick_h> So I've been on hardtail for 2years and fs for a month, FS feels better downhill but that's about it.
<rick_h> On anbig down hill I can do it faster.
<mrgoodcat> yea i've been on both. learned on a HT diamondback, switched to a trek FS, now i'm on a norco revolver HT
<rick_h> But it's not like "I couldn't do that before I had a FS"
<rick_h> Gotcha
<mrgoodcat> actually my bike is still a trek
<mrgoodcat> but its taken apart
<rick_h> Hah
<mrgoodcat> and i've been riding the norco
<mrgoodcat> which is my dads
<rick_h> Ibe got some spare parts if you want. Carbon bar, xt brakes, etc. Been hacking on things.
<mrgoodcat> current frontrunners are trek procaliber 9.8 (carbon ht), trek top fuel 8 (aluminum FS), diamondback overdrive pro carbon (carbon HT)
<mrgoodcat> did you get the carbon bar for the weight reduction or do you notice its any more comfortable to ride? i've only used aluminum bars
<mrgoodcat> i know a lot of people say the carbon bars have more flex though which can reduce hand fatigue
<rick_h> Yea I got it for width and testing how it felt different
<rick_h> My ibis came with an I is bar but I've bought my own before so not using the Ibis carbon
<mrgoodcat> got it
<rick_h> I like how it feels but with grips and gloves can't tell a ton
<mrgoodcat> the mojo 3 is a 27.5?
<rick_h> 27.5+
<rick_h> I've got minion 2.8s on there
<mrgoodcat> oh man i was looking at plus bikes
<mrgoodcat> they look so fun
<rick_h> Yea, with my weight and around here I wanted to go plus
<rick_h> So I looked at all of them
<rick_h> Really really happy with it so far
<mrgoodcat> glad to hear
<rick_h> Grip has been great in leafy covered stuff the last month
<mrgoodcat> yea the wide tires have crazy grip
<mrgoodcat> the only thing i've heard is that plus tires can get slippery in mud really quick
<mrgoodcat> but that's fine since i usually try not to bike in the mud too often
<rick_h> Yea not looking to shower off in the cold before going in the house.
<brousch> cmaloney: Congrats! Who are you consulting with?
<cmaloney> A friend's company
<rick_h> cmaloney: what's this?
<cmaloney> not sure how much I can reveal at the moment. :)
<cmaloney> rick_h: I got paid today. :)
<rick_h> cmaloney: woot woot
 * cmaloney is not a freeloader. :)
<brousch> Is it for development?
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah
<cmaloney> and interesting development at that
<brousch> That's good enough to satisfy me
<mrgoodcat> congrats!
<cmaloney> Thanks!
<cmaloney> If anything this has taught me that I need more sources of income
 * cmaloney starts planning out Typing Monkey Omnimedia
<cmaloney> ;)
<Scary_Guy> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/linux-journal-ceases-publication
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-12-03
<tony-smlr> We are going live, SMLR E259 (12/3/2017) Video: http://youtu.be/Xk_U_3q3k54
<rick_h> evening
<cmaloney> howdy
<Scary_Guy> greetings
<greg-g> yolo
