#ubuntu-classroom 2007-06-25
* #ubuntu-classroom  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
<IndyGunFreak> surprised that didn't work
<jrib> it worked for you right IndyGunFreak ?
<IndyGunFreak> no it didn
<IndyGunFreak> t
<IndyGunFreak> had't to root into /usr/share/.mplayer/skins
<IndyGunFreak> i thought it was cuz i accidentally dropped the S on my skins folder.
<Cain_UnAbel> ok i figured it out
<jrib> what was it?
<jrib> IndyGunFreak: try:  cd ~/.mplayer/skins && wget http://www.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/Skin/Blue-small-1.4.tar.bz2 && tar xf Blue-small-1.4.tar.bz2
<IndyGunFreak> jrib: im not sure why that didn't work to be truthful\
<Cain_UnAbel> is there a skin where the video and control are together
<Cain_UnAbel> and not independent of each other
<jrib> I don't think so
<jrib> try vlc or gxine
<Cain_UnAbel> alright
<IndyGunFreak> Cain_UnAbel: the WindowsXP skin is.
<Cain_UnAbel> thanks
<IndyGunFreak> thats the one i downloaded
<IndyGunFreak> i'm curious why that didn't work though...
<IndyGunFreak> any ideas jrib?
<Cain_UnAbel> have either of you had problems with frostwire not connecting to the network?
<jrib> IndyGunFreak: the small blue command didn't work after you restarter mplayer?
<IndyGunFreak> Cain_UnAbel: i had all sorts of problems, finally just dropped it and went with limewire, no probs since
<IndyGunFreak> jrib: no..
<IndyGunFreak> jrib: well, it worked.
<jrib> ?
<IndyGunFreak> but it doesn't put the skin in my list
<IndyGunFreak> on mplayer
<jrib> oh
<jrib> you using mplayer from the repos?
<IndyGunFreak> yeah
<jrib> no idea
<IndyGunFreak> oh well, i'm over it.. :)
<Cain_UnAbel> IndyGunFreak, do you happen to have a link to the limewire installation you used?
<IndyGunFreak> Cain_UnAbel: its on limewire.com
<IndyGunFreak> Cain_UnAbel: download the limewire.deb file for ubuntu.
<Cain_UnAbel> it says error dependency for libc6
<Cain_UnAbel> i have the newest version installed
<IndyGunFreak> hmm
<Cain_UnAbel> now its saying dependency is not satisfiable
<IndyGunFreak> ok.
<IndyGunFreak> Cain_UnAbel: open synaptic, and do a search for libc6
<IndyGunFreak> tell me what you have installed.
<IndyGunFreak> i have libc6, libc6-dev, libc6-i686,
<Cain_UnAbel> yea
<Cain_UnAbel> all of those
<IndyGunFreak> wierd.
<Cain_UnAbel> so am i fucked?
<IndyGunFreak> no..., holdon
<IndyGunFreak> may wantto watchyour language to, i don't care, but ops get upset about it.
<Cain_UnAbel> whoops
<n2diy> FSCKED!
<IndyGunFreak> don't know why you're having that problem
<IndyGunFreak> and you had allthose ones i posted installed?
<Cain_UnAbel> yea
<IndyGunFreak> no clue.
<Cain_UnAbel> that sucks
<Cain_UnAbel> neither do i
<IndyGunFreak> holdon Cain_UnAbel
<IndyGunFreak> i think iknowhow i got around this now.
<IndyGunFreak> Cain_UnAbel: i don't understand the problem
<IndyGunFreak> cuz i just installed it on my laptop(didn't have it previously), and have only those 3 packages with libc6 installed, and it has no dependency issue.
<IndyGunFreak> you downloaded the ubuntu .deb file, right?
<Cain_UnAbel> is there another package that could be causing this
<Cain_UnAbel> yes
<Cain_UnAbel> i had this problem with frostwire as well
<IndyGunFreak> hmm,
<IndyGunFreak> Cain_UnAbel: join me in #indygunfreak
<IndyGunFreak> actions over..
<IndyGunFreak> lol
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-classroom.log
<OxS> is anyone using e17?
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-06-26
<trough27> hi
<jrib> bye
<tucci> hello? jrib?
<jrib> hi
<jrib> is libmozjs0d installed?
<jrib> I don't have libmozjs-dev installed either, that was an error on my part
<tucci> one sex
<jrib> 0_o
<tucci> :> I mean one sec
<tucci> err... now synaptic won't start
<tucci> nevermind, got it
<Sam331> http://www.codepoetry.net/archives/2004/08/27/partitioning_the_ipod.php , how do I use this? The commands do not work
<tucci> yes, libmozjs0d and libmozjs0d-dbg are both installed
<jrib> tucci: the only other package I have with libmozjs.so is libxul0d
<tucci> I have all the libxul0d except -dbg - should I download that?
<jrib> nope
<jrib> hmm, why doesn't it work for you...
<tucci> I had it working fine when I was using ubuntu, then i switched to kde and and my hard drive got borked, so I did a fresh install of kubuntu
<tucci> And now it won't work
<jrib> the error is with libmozjs.so right?
<tucci> yes
<jrib> do all of these files exist (since I have no idea which one it wants): /usr/lib/firefox/libmozjs.so /usr/lib/libmozjs.so.0d /usr/lib/xulrunner/libmozjs.so
<tucci> yes all three of those exist
<jrib> well I have no idea why it complains about libmozjs.so then, because those are the only package installed files that I have that contain that
<tucci> weird...
<jrib> you using 32bit or 64bit?
<tucci> er, 32? I think, how do I know?
<jrib> uname -a
<jrib> I'm on 64bit, but it usually works the other way around -- things are more likely not to work on 64 bit
<tucci> Linux tucci-laptop 2.6.20-16-generic #2 SMP Thu Jun 7 20:19:32 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux
<jrib> you're on 32bit
<jrib> tucci: and you are typing exactly "./celtx" right?  not "./celtx-bin"?  Because "./celtx-bin" gives me the libmozjs.so error as well
<tucci> oh, no i was using ./celtx-bin, but the other's not working either... hang on
<tucci> great, that appeared to work now, though it opened up a new terminal with an error (will pastebin)
<tucci> error at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27211/
<tucci> but celtx looks like it opened, will look more closely
<tucci> yes, it works fine AFAICT - does that error message mean anything?
<tucci> thanks jrib
<jrib> np
<jrib> I don't know what that error message means
* jrib promptly removes evil linux adware program
<SonhadorPR> hello again
<jrib> hi
<jrib> open up a terminal please
<SonhadorPR> did you get any of the error msgs?
<jrib> !terminal
<ubotu> The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome) or K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE).  Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal
<jrib> yep
<jrib> then type this command: sudo apt-get update
<jrib> and pastebin the output
<jrib> !paste
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<SonhadorPR> I already did that
<SonhadorPR> gives me the same error
<jrib> but I didn't see it :)
<SonhadorPR> yes I know..
<SonhadorPR> Ie been loking for 3 hours for some helo..
<SonhadorPR> is not easy..
<SonhadorPR> help
<jrib> k
<SonhadorPR> yeah...I did that...and the message still comes up
<SonhadorPR> at the end..
<jrib> pastebin the full output
<SonhadorPR> I don think it will work...I can e-mail it toyou...
<jrib> ?
<jrib> why would it not work?
<jrib> it's a web form
<SonhadorPR> but I using a VMS irc from my linux account,m because the chatzilla wont connect to the servers
<jrib> open http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org in a browser
<jrib> paste the output in there, press submit, copy the url and paste it here
<SonhadorPR> ok...
<SonhadorPR> and after I paste it?
<jrib> press submit
<SonhadorPR> ohhh..
<SonhadorPR> ok
<SonhadorPR> first I sent a copy of the msg I posted on a server for help..
<SonhadorPR> let me paste the command line next..
<SonhadorPR> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27215/
<jrib> do you still have the realplayer .deb you used?
<SonhadorPR> well...the omne I installed is the *.bin
<jrib> you never used a .deb?
<SonhadorPR> heres the other paste...after that some website told me to type sudo apt-get upgrade, thats where the msg comes up again
<SonhadorPR> no....Im new on ubuntu
<SonhadorPR> I found a site that tells you how to install all kinds of files
<jrib> ok, type this command: apt-cache policy realplayer
<jrib> SonhadorPR: you want to avoid taht
<SonhadorPR> *.deb, *.rpm, *.tar.gz
<jrib> stick to the repositories
<SonhadorPR> etc...
<jrib> yes, you will end up with a broken system (case in point)
<SonhadorPR> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27216/
<SonhadorPR> yeah...but the repositories didn have the Real Player that I wanted...
<SonhadorPR> maybe I should kill the Real Player..
<jrib> you don't really need it anyway
<jrib> but we'll fix this...
<SonhadorPR> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27217/
<SonhadorPR> well...bottom line I wanted a player who can open AVI files..
<jrib> ok, to remove it, run: dpkg --purge --force-remove-reinstreq realplayer
<SonhadorPR> the mopvie player that is installed doesnt support them
<SonhadorPR> ok...what am I removing?
<jrib> realplayer
<SonhadorPR> if the Real Player works fine, I want to leave it alone
<SonhadorPR> I just want to fix the problem on the package manager
<jrib> that's what we are doing
<SonhadorPR> do you think thats conflicting with the synaptic?
<SonhadorPR> ok
<SonhadorPR> let me do that...hold on...
<SonhadorPR> ok..some crazy stuff came up...let me paste it..
<SonhadorPR> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27218/
<jrib> ok, now try: sudo apt-get update
<SonhadorPR> ok...it went through the whole list, no errors
<jrib> great, now about realplayer.  I can give you instructions on how to install it properly if you want, or I can tell you how to get a good linux player that can play that stuff
<SonhadorPR> yeah...lets try find some other player
<jrib> ok, well I really like mplayer
<jrib> try: sudo aptitude install mplayer
<SonhadorPR> ok its dl and installing...I think the other problem got fixed, because I dont see the orange box with the white star anymore
<SonhadorPR> its done
<SonhadorPR> now...in my desktop I still see a folder which has a lock, and says Real Player....I cant delete it
<jrib> lets do one thing at a time
<jrib> can mplayer play your Real file?
<SonhadorPR> ok sure, sorry...
<SonhadorPR> I dont know...I would have to find another avi file, since I just deleted the other one I had
<jrib> http://service.real.com/realplayer/test/
<SonhadorPR> ok let me get that
<jrib> download it since we didn't install the plugin
<jrib> this is the command: mplayer -playlist http://service.real.com/learnnav/testrams/realvideo10_512.ram
<SonhadorPR> Error parsing option on the command line: -playlist
<jrib> pastebin the full input and output
<SonhadorPR> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27220/
<jrib> you missed the url?
<SonhadorPR> ??
<jrib> this is the command: mplayer -playlist http://service.real.com/learnnav/testrams/realvideo10_512.ram
<jrib> you forgot the http... part
<SonhadorPR> oohhh...
<SonhadorPR> ok..let me paste the other set of errors
<SonhadorPR> hold on
<SonhadorPR> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27221/
<jrib> k, we need to install w32codecs now
<jrib> for that we need to add the medibuntu repo
<SonhadorPR> ok
<SonhadorPR> ok
<jrib> http://medibuntu.org/repository.php
<jrib> let me know if something is not clear there
<SonhadorPR> ok let me see...
<SonhadorPR> I type in the 2 sudo commands, correct?
<jrib> well the full line
<SonhadorPR> starting with echo?
<jrib> yes
<SonhadorPR> ok
<jrib> and the other with wget
<SonhadorPR> deb http://packages.medibuntu.org/ feisty free non-free
<SonhadorPR> thats what came up
<SonhadorPR> let me do the other line
<SonhadorPR> ok...it went through the whole list of things, and now its done with no errors
<jrib> ok, now: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install w32codecs
<jrib> you've probably noticed, but I'll tell you that apt-get is the command line way to do what synaptic does in the gui
<SonhadorPR> will I didnt know..I just thoght they were similar
<SonhadorPR> I actually like using command lines better, if only I knew all the commads...hehehe
<jrib> prepare to be overwhelmed:
<jrib> !apt > SonhadorPR (see the private message from ubotu)
<jrib> !cli > SonhadorPR (see the private message from ubotu)
<jrib> !rute > SonhadorPR (see the private message from ubotu)
<jrib> have fun :)
<SonhadorPR> hehehe
<SonhadorPR> ok
<jrib> alright after that last command finishes, try:  mplayer -playlist http://service.real.com/learnnav/testrams/realvideo10_512.ram
<SonhadorPR> ok...its still going...ill let you know
<jrib> SonhadorPR: alright, I'm going to go but, mplayer /should/ be able to play Real files now, but firefox will still use totem.  If you want, you can remove totem-mozilla and install mozilla-mplayer so that your browser will use mplayer too (requires a restart of your browser)
<SonhadorPR> ok it works perfect!  thank you...
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-06-27
<kurkoten> hello
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-06-28
<unagi> hi?
<jrib> unagi: what did you do exactly?
<unagi> well for a few days ive been trying to get maya to work
<unagi> i downloaded rpm's and converted them to deb
<unagi> i FINALLY get it to run but the problem is it locks my system up shortly after.......and it breaks my package manager
<jrib> well I can't help you with maya
<jrib> but we can fix the package manager probably
<jrib> pastebin the error
<unagi> ubuntu also crashes frequently
<unagi> whats pastebin
<unagi> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<unagi> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27553/
<jrib> k, so now pastebin what happens when you try to reinstall awcommon
<unagi> sudo apt-get reinstall awcommon?
<jrib> no, use the .deb you have
<unagi> the package could be corrupt or you are not allowed to open the file
<jrib> what command did you use?
<unagi> i double clicked on the deb
<jrib> do it in a terminal
<jrib> sudo dpkg -i /path/to/deb
<unagi> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<unagi> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27554/
<jrib> unagi: pastebin /var/lib/dpkg/info/awcommon*
<unagi> ok cool good news
<unagi> i fixed my package manager
<unagi> bad news....had to remove maya to do it
<jrib> ok
<unagi> or maybe not
<unagi> im confused
<unagi> linux doesnt make sense to me =*(
<checkergrrl> hi there jrib
<jrib> one sec
<checkergrrl> k
<jrib> checkergrrl: what do you actually want to accomplish?
<checkergrrl> okay
<checkergrrl> i want to find all the .txt files of a directory and compress(gzip) it to a new directory
<checkergrrl> is it possible?
<jrib> do you want to keep the originals?
<checkergrrl> nope
<checkergrrl> but if there is no othe option ..than its fine
<jrib> well, I'm trying to figure out the syntax to make it create them in a new directory
<checkergrrl> what about if the  new directory is already created and we can point it out to it
<jrib> true, we can do something like  gzip -c FILE > FILE.gz
<jrib> does that make sense?
<checkergrrl> mmmm
<checkergrrl> thats a new one
<checkergrrl> >
<jrib> what were you thinking?
<checkergrrl> let me try
<jrib> wait
<checkergrrl> okay
<jrib> here is what you can try (it will just print stuff and not do anything):
<checkergrrl> find -name *.txt gzip -c FILE > FILE.gz
<checkergrrl> gzip -v *.txt
<checkergrrl> works for all txt
<jrib> do you want to make several seperate .gz files or you want like a tarball?
<checkergrrl> for each .txt file i want to create a gz
<checkergrrl> but i want to use the "find" command
<jrib> find -name '*.txt' -exec echo "gzip -c {} > /path/to/new/directory/{}.gz" \;
<jrib> try that
<checkergrrl> k
<jrib> do those commands seem to do what you want?
<checkergrrl> yes...but i am getting this error msg: find: missing argument to '-exec'
<jrib> can you paste the command you used?
<checkergrrl> i used the one you typed
<jrib> was that the only output?
<checkergrrl> yep
<checkergrrl> find: missing argument to '-exec'
<jrib> it works here, did you copy and paste the whole thing or type it out?
<checkergrrl> type it out
<checkergrrl> mmmm
<checkergrrl> okay let me try again
<checkergrrl> hahha...now i got >
<checkergrrl> jrib...i will work on it
<checkergrrl> :)
<checkergrrl> there must be soemthign i am doing
<checkergrrl> maybe a space or something
<jrib> copy and paste what you are doing
<checkergrrl> well..i am using different boxes
<checkergrrl> hold on
<checkergrrl> let me try something different
<checkergrrl> i will paste it on IM
<checkergrrl> lol
<checkergrrl> jrib thanks for all your help
<checkergrrl> i will be around tomorrow
<checkergrrl> i got class to go to
<checkergrrl> :(
<jrib> k
<checkergrrl> hey jrib
<checkergrrl> it worked!
<jrib> hey
<checkergrrl> awesome :()
<checkergrrl> :)
<jrib> it didn't
<checkergrrl> it did
<jrib> because you have echo right?
<checkergrrl> yep
<checkergrrl> your command was right
<jrib> you have to get rid of the "echo" for it to actually do stuff instead of just printing it
<checkergrrl> wait
<checkergrrl> mmmm...okay ..i better go before i am late
<checkergrrl> i will c you tomorrow?
<jrib> sure, I'll probably be around
<checkergrrl> great
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-06-29
<DesRat|Zex_Suik|> jordan_u can you see this
<Jordan_U> DesRat|Zex_Suik|, no
<DesRat|Zex_Suik|> lol
<DesRat|Zex_Suik|> okay im at cmd line
<DesRat|Zex_Suik|> now what
<Jordan_U> run: passwd < your user name >
<DesRat|Zex_Suik|> run command not found
<DesRat|Zex_Suik|> lol
<DesRat|Zex_Suik|> nvm
<DesRat|Zex_Suik|> ok asked for new unix pass
<DesRat|Zex_Suik|> entered it and tzped new pass twice
<Jordan_U> Enter whatever you want for the new password
<DesRat|Zex_Suik|> then reboot
<DesRat|Zex_Suik|> loading now
<ZexSuik> woot
<ZexSuik> works
<ZexSuik> thanks Jordan_U!!1
<ZexSuik> you're my hero for the day!
<ZexSuik> now I just pray that my other OS still loads like before
<ZexSuik> hopefully I won't be back for awhile
<ZexSuik> have a good night
<checkergrrl> morning jrib
<checkergrrl> :)
<jrib> checkergrrl: morning
<jrib> did you figure out your command?
<X337> Hi I'll think its better If i've poste this qustion here because I think its a little bit difflicult to explain it , so in the main chat I thing this is impossible to explain...Do someone now how I am making a .bash_profile in my home directory for my currently user on the system?
<jrib> X337: what do you want to accomplish?
<X337> I want to install some toolchain jrib: http://ps2dev.org/ps2/Tools/Toolchain/ps2toolchain-20070626.tar.bz2
<X337> sorry jrib, that was the toolchain for ps2..I mean that one : http://ps2dev.org/psp/Tools/Toolchain/psptoolchain-20070626.tar.bz2
<checkergrrl> jrib ...are you there?
<jrib> checkergrrl: hi
<checkergrrl> hhey :)
<checkergrrl> no i was not able to figure out the command
<checkergrrl> havent played iwht it
<jrib> X337: you can use ~/.xprofile which gets sourced when you log into X
<checkergrrl> i was playing with the join command
<checkergrrl> lol
<jrib> checkergrrl: there is a slight problem with what you want to do.  What happens if you have a/foo.txt and b/foo.txt, two files with the same name but in different directories?
<X337> ah ok thx jib :)
<X337> *jrib sorry
<checkergrrl> k
<checkergrrl> is this for the join cmmand or the find and exec
<jrib> find and exec
<checkergrrl> ok
<jrib> anyway this will do what you want but if you have a/foo.txt and b/foo.txt only the last one gets gzipped (the first one gets overwritten):
<jrib> mkdir new; find -name '*.txt' -exec sh -c 'gzip -c {} > new/`echo {} | sed s#.*/##`.gz' \;
<checkergrrl> OH!!!!! My goodness
<checkergrrl> thats a long long command
<checkergrrl> i havent even got to there
<jrib> got to where?
<checkergrrl> s#
<jrib> do you know about sed?
<checkergrrl> command s# /##.
<checkergrrl> etc
<checkergrrl> nope
<checkergrrl> i am just learing linux
<checkergrrl> very new at it
<jrib> !sed
<ubotu> The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome) or K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE).  Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal
<jrib> ugh
<jrib> what a useless factoid alias
<checkergrrl> but i am star to enjoy it alot
<checkergrrl> hahah
<jrib> http://www.grymoire.com/Unix/Sed.html and http://doc.novsu.ac.ru/oreilly/unix/sedawk/index.htm are decent.  You probably want to learn about http://www.regular-expressions.info/ too
<checkergrrl> mmm ..:)
<checkergrrl> wooo thanks jrib
<jrib> checkergrrl: what's the reason you want to gzip all your txt files?
<checkergrrl> there is no reason...just want to learn how u can use various commands
<jrib> ah ok, cool then
<checkergrrl> and see how usuful they can be at any time
<checkergrrl> for example i was palying with join command yesterday
<checkergrrl> and i was not able to get it to work
<checkergrrl> lol
<checkergrrl> any how
<jrib> have you checked out the rute book?
<checkergrrl> its a challenge ...but its good to have someone like that you to encourage me
<checkergrrl> rute book?
<checkergrrl> no
<jrib> I've never used the join command
<jrib> http://rute.2038bug.com/ really great
<checkergrrl> mmm
<checkergrrl> yah...apperently its not to usuful until u learn how to write scripts i imagine
<jrib> it walks you through that
<checkergrrl> WO!!! looks like a great book
<checkergrrl> its like a linux bible
<checkergrrl> jrib: kewl i was able to figure how join wokrs
<checkergrrl> :)
<jrib> nice, you know more than me now
<checkergrrl> lol
<checkergrrl> no no
<checkergrrl> now i am going to try your comannd
<jrib> make sure you don't have a directory called "new" with stuff in it as it would get overwritten
<checkergrrl> hahha
<checkergrrl> i wont
<checkergrrl> :)
<checkergrrl> jrib?
<checkergrrl> u there/
<checkergrrl> Wo!
<checkergrrl> its worked
<checkergrrl> it worked worked very well...and it keep the original file
<jrib> cool
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-06-30
<stu-mc> jrib: here
<jrib> stu-mc: hi
<stu-mc> hi
<OmegaCenti> listening in.
<jrib> stu-mc: what is the full path to the directory you want to modify?
<stu-mc>  it is /var/www/maison-paradis
<jrib> what is the output of: ls -ld /var/www/maison-paradis
<stu-mc> i have changed it by logging as the user who owns the dir. but the point of asking about it was that in future i would not know the pass of users i might want to change persmissions on folders to
<OmegaCenti> drwxr-xr-x 78 omegacenti omegacenti
* nalioth renames #ubuntu-classroom to #jribs-Ubuntu-Classroom
<stu-mc> i can put back using the user to test with if you want
<jrib> stu-mc: if you want to figure out what is going on, sure
<stu-mc> it read rxwr-xr-x 5 maison-paradis
<stu-mc> ok let me su back 2 mins
* jrib asks nalioth to spit out his gum
* OmegaCenti giggles at nalioth
* nalioth renames #ubuntu-classroom to #ubuntu-classroom-featuring-jrib!
<stu-mc> ok changed back ill get that line for you
<stu-mc> drwxr-xr-x 5 maison-paradis maison-paradis 4096 2007-06-28 23:02 /var/www/maison-paradis
<jrib> it's still 755
<OmegaCenti> 4096? is that size?
<stu-mc> i just changed back to 755 using the user
<jrib> ok, and what do you want to change it to now?
<stu-mc> 775
<stu-mc> using anything but the actual user
<OmegaCenti> I just not understood the 775...
<OmegaCenti> Neato
<OmegaCenti> whats the first second and third group?
<jrib> alright, what is the output of: sudo chmod 775 /var/www/maison-paradis
<stu-mc> Omega : http://www.linuxheadquarters.com/howto/basic/chmod.shtml
<stu-mc> no output
<OmegaCenti> user,group,everyone else
<stu-mc> but does not change the permissions
<jrib> and now, ls -ld /var/www/maison-paradis
<stu-mc> drwxr-xr-x 5 maison-paradis maison-paradis 4096 2007-06-28 23:02 /var/www/maison-paradis
<jrib> indeed...
<stu-mc> ill give you a history see if it impacts on this
<OmegaCenti> sudo ask you for password?
<stu-mc> made dir as root, added it as a apache viretual site directory, then wanted to create a user with it as a home dir so i could use it as a ftp user, so chnaged the owner to the user for ftp (maison-ftp) this broke apache so i re a2ensite'ed it and that then allowed it to work
<stu-mc> sorry owner is (maison-paradis) not (maison-ftp)
<jrib> what does 'sudo echo hi' do?
<stu-mc> does no output
<OmegaCenti> sudo broke
<jrib> what is the output of 'groups'?
<stu-mc> for the current user shows :
<stu-mc> stuart adm dialout cdrom floppy audio dip video plugdev scanner netdev lpadmin powerdev admin
<stu-mc> however i am also a member of maison-paradis even though its not listed there
<stu-mc> if i do id stuart i get : uid=1000(stuart) gid=1000(stuart) groups=1000(stuart),1001(maison-paradis)
<jrib> hmm
<jrib> stu-mc: 'getent passwd stuart'
<stu-mc> this is why i keep going back to windows i break things to easily lol, but with windows i have the knowledge to fix them
<stu-mc> stuart:x:1000:1000:stuart,,,:/home/stuart:/bin/bash
<jrib> 'getent group admin' is what I meant
<stu-mc> nothing should i sudo it ?
<jrib> do you have any other users with sudo access?
<stu-mc> nope
<jrib> have you set a root password?
<stu-mc> nope
<stu-mc> i didnt think you could
<jrib> not recommended, but would save some time now :)
<jrib> 'grep admin /etc/group'
<stu-mc> hehe
<stu-mc> lpadmin:x:113:
<stu-mc> admin:x:117:
<jrib> alright, I guess you just managed to remove yourself from the "admin" group somehow (/me notes to ask users to use 'id' from now on).  Try rebooting in recovery mode and issuing: adduser stuart admin
<stu-mc> recovery mode?
<jrib> yeah, should be an option in grub's boot menu
<stu-mc> ok ill look
<stu-mc> haha give me a few i cant reboot ill have to go to the box
<stu-mc> ok ther, sorry had to move lappy and goto the box
<stu-mc> at # now
<jrib> 'adduser stuart admin'
<stu-mc> ok says done
<jrib> reboot
<stu-mc> ok i think when trying to add myself to maison-paradis group i screwed up.
<jrib> you used usermod eh?
<stu-mc> i did
<jrib> without -a?
<stu-mc> usermod -G
<stu-mc> i think
<stu-mc> i tried about 5 diff commands, all examples of the net
<jrib> yeah, without -a it replaces your current groups with the list you give
<stu-mc> but when using groups it didnt show me so kept trying
<jrib> it's easier to use adduser
<stu-mc> but if i had used id then it would have shown
<stu-mc> what a git lol
<stu-mc> but ty v.much
<jrib> np
<stu-mc> ok sudo echo working. all fixed. you are a star.
<jrib> great
<stu-mc> jrib sorry to bother you again, i need to find the pid of a task ( i only know about top which doesnt show it)
<jrib> stu-mc: I use:  ps -ef | grep PROCESS
<jrib> there's also system -> administration -> system monitor
<stu-mc> i need to learn to use CLI as i will be ssh'ing when needed
<jrib> !cli
<ubotu> The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome) or K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE).  Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal
<jrib> http://rute.2038bug.com/ is really great
<stu-mc> ok what i expected to find isnt there, i belived firestarter was running by default ( i used it then decided against it). but its not listed.
<jrib> it's just a gui to iptables
<jrib> it sets up iptables rules so it doesn't need to be running for the rules to be active.  Try 'sudo iptables -L'
<stu-mc> if i load it in gui from system>admin and turn it off then i get access to my dns server (on the same box)
<stu-mc> ok for the record that list is far too long (when i do ipatbles -L)
<jrib> yeah, those are the iptables rules you currently have set
<jrib> !iptables
<ubotu> Ubuntu, like any other linux distribution, has firewall capabilities built-in. The firewall is managed using the 'iptables' command (see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IptablesHowTo), or GUI applications such as Firestarter (Gnome) or Guarddog (KDE).
<stu-mc> can i stop iptables from running ( allow full access to and from the box?
<jrib> stu-mc: you can flush the rules
<stu-mc> ok ill look into it, one last thing if ya dont mind, how do i find what services run at startup ?
<jrib> it's on the page ubotu linked:  iptables -F
<jrib> (to flush taht is)
<jrib> stu-mc: man update-rc.d  will explain how it works.  You may like to use sysv-rc-conf which is a nice ncurses interface to manipulating sysv init scripts
<jrib> system -> admin -> services for the gui
<stu-mc> ok ill look thanks ( ironicly i stop firestarter because it wouldnt let me add a network just ip's, even thought it states it should do network)
<stu-mc> im behind a ipcop box so im safe.
<Pirate_Hunter> hi
<Pirate_Hunter> jrib: you here yet?
<jrib> hi
<Pirate_Hunter> kl
<Pirate_Hunter> like i was saying i need to just hide or delete the folder from applications
<jrib> run this:  find ~/.local ! -user $USER
<Pirate_Hunter> kk
<Pirate_Hunter> it doesnt do nothing just says bash: /home/me/.local: is a directory
<jrib> pastebin the command and all of its output
<Pirate_Hunter> jrib: that was the only output
<jrib> right, but I need to see what you typed
<jrib> because that output doesn't make sense
<Pirate_Hunter> me@medesktop:~$ ~/.local ! -user $USER
<Pirate_Hunter> bash: /home/me/.local: is a directory
<jrib> right, that's not the command
<jrib> run this:  find ~/.local ! -user $USER
<Pirate_Hunter> hmmm???
<jrib> you forgot "find"
<Pirate_Hunter> ok
<Pirate_Hunter> that gives me nothing as output
<jrib> ok
<jrib> what directory are you trying to hide?
<Pirate_Hunter> u were expecting that?
<jrib> well no, that doesn't explain why it isn't working :)
<jrib> but that's normal, yes
<Pirate_Hunter> transgaming folder in applcation, why it created a folder for itself i have no clue
<jrib> run 'alacarte' in a terminal
<Pirate_Hunter> done
<jrib> actually, before that run this command: find ~/.config ! -user $USER
<Pirate_Hunter> that does nothing
<jrib> ok, carry on with alacarte, click the checkbox next to the transgaming folder
<Pirate_Hunter> if i right click the folder the option are greyed out
<Pirate_Hunter> what does this mean: (alacarte:6786): GnomeUI-WARNING **: gnome_icon_entry_gtk_entry deprecated, use changed signal!
<jrib> ignore it
<Pirate_Hunter> so what do i do from here
<jrib> you have "applications" selected on the left and "transgaming" displayed on the right along with "accessories", "games", etc...
<jrib> right?
<Pirate_Hunter> yup
<jrib> and if you click on the checkmark, there is no output?
<Pirate_Hunter> transgaming has created an actual folder for itself even knowing i cna find it in games
<Pirate_Hunter> yeah i get not output if i right click the transgaming folder
<jrib> try just clicking on the checkmark next to "transgaming"
<Pirate_Hunter> did that it unchecks the app inside the folder but i can still see it in application ti just checks itself
<jrib> I don't understand, what do you mean by "uncheckes the app inside the folder"?
<Pirate_Hunter> in alacarte/ left side is where all the folders are (menus) right side are the apps and i cna uncheck them not to show in menu but transgaming just acting weird
<Pirate_Hunter> I might as well delete it aint using it now and delete all its folders which i dont know hwere they are
<jrib> on the left side you select "applications" so that the folders show up on the right
<Pirate_Hunter> yeah
<Pirate_Hunter> how do i delete this completely and all its folder as well as setting
<jrib> Pirate_Hunter: yes, I'm here...
<jrib> :)
<Pirate_Hunter> kk you could answer my last question
<jrib> how did you install cedega?
<Pirate_Hunter> rpm converted to .deb which is a no no than i got a .deb package an official package
<jrib> you should be able to use synaptic to remove it
<Pirate_Hunter> would it delete setting and folder as well as links if it made any
<jrib> it should
<Pirate_Hunter> hmmm...?
<jrib> so, it should, but I can't predict the future :)
<stu-mc> evening, I have created a user and set its home dir to a dir that already was there and not owned by the new user so it gave me an error, when i logged in under that user the home dir went back 1 place so instead of /var/www/if-guild it puts the user in /var/www/. I have then altered the the dir permissions using chown to the new user, i then usermod -d/var/www/if-guild <user>. the prob is it still los the user in /var/www/
<jrib> stu-mc: you should use #ubuntu for support, this channel doesn't have as many eyes watching it
<stu-mc> kk thanx
<stu-mc> jrib: ok ill sort out myself, thanks for help yesterday, it seems people only answer questions in there special area, and if its not they are just negative and un-helpful, critasise people for poor use of english, spelling, punctuation. end of the day i have been on widows using forums for years, the user base for linux maybe very large and so on these days but the most of them are actually less usfull than a floppy disk fo
<stu-mc> sorry my english is crappy, but hey ho, im not english teacher nor do i expect others that speak to me to have perfect english.
<stu-mc> so hey ho, have fun and thanks alot. but windows is calling me and beta server 2008 is now out.
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-07-01
* stu-mc calmed down a bit with a beer in hand
<stu-mc> jrib: sorry for loosing my kool.
<m1r> hi all
<m1r> /root/.setup5340: error while loading shared libraries: libgtk-1.2.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<m1r> The setup program seems to have failed on x86/glibc-2.1
<nalioth> m1r: what are you trying to install? and what distro are you running?
<m1r> ubuntu 7.04 , enemy teritory
<nalioth> got a link?
<m1r> link to ?
<nalioth> enemy territory.
<m1r> i dl from gaming site
<m1r> used it on other machine with np
<nalioth> ok. it seems it is wanting another version of glibc.
<nalioth> i'm asking for the site, so i can look at it
<m1r> second i give u link
<m1r> http://www.gamershell.com/download_2355.shtml
<m1r> last time i didnt have to install libgtk as i recall
<m1r> ok is runing now, i got scared :)
<m1r> 2 days infront pc dont make ppl feel good
<nalioth> perhaps a nap is in order  :)
<m1r> think that is good idea, but i want my full spectar of games run first :)
<m1r> got used laptop with ati 9000x64mb /512ram/2660mhz p4
<nalioth> sounds good :)
<m1r> man, it is a beast :)
<m1r> 1st time i managed to run 3d desktop
<m1r> so i am filing it with every game i know for linux :)
<m1r> do u know any good games u can recomend ?
<m1r> i got open arena , nexuiz , torcs, et now
<m1r> it is amaizing that all of them run with np :)
<m1r> only problem is , i cant have anything ON desktop open if i want play, that part i dont get yet
<nalioth> i'm not much of a gamer  :(
<m1r> me neither :) but with this power ... :)
<m1r> would be pitty not to see what can it do , at least :)
<nalioth> yep :)
<m1r> on 2nd boot, shit showed me my battery is 16h time left :D
<m1r> but then after 1 min, it got to 1h :/
<m1r> some damn nice bug would that be :)
<m1r> *tnx lord for nescaffe 3in1*
<m1r> i go seek some more games, tnx for help m8 :)
<m1r> when did this chanell open btw ?
<nalioth> it's been open for a long time
<nalioth> i thought you were having compile issues, not install issues
<m1r> ah :)
<m1r> ah nice, found a site with list of games , wish me luck :P
<m1r> http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Native_Games
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-06-25
<james_w> pleia2: hi, I just sent a reminder mail about tomorrow's session if you would like to moderate it.
<pleia2> james_w: sure, just nudge me like 5 minutes before you start
<pleia2> thanks :)
<pleia2> james_w: oh yeah, added your address to the "accepts" list too
<pleia2> so it won't be held for moderation next time 'round
<james_w> great, thanks pleia2
<persia> What is moderation?
<persia> I'm a big fan of interactive lessons.
<pleia2> persia: moderation is optional, decided by presenter
<pleia2> some people like interactive, others don't like being interrupted
<persia> OK.  I think I'd like to try without then.  I've had a few sessions now about apport and stacktraces, and have yet to have querants significantly distract.
<pleia2> works for me :)
<persia> Further, as I don't really have a script, other than having a selected example, it's nice to have people ask questions.
 * pleia2 nods
<persia> Of course, if james_w is incredibly successful with marketing, and I'm presenting to a crowd of 10.000, I may change my mind :)
<james_w> pleia2: ah, sorry, I meant moderate the mail, not the session. They are normally small, so it's not necessary, but it's obviously up to persia.
<james_w> pleia2: also, it may not be the best time of day for you
<pleia2> gotcha
<pleia2> heh, I'm always around
<persia> pleia2: At 10:00 UTC?  Don't you like to sleep once in a while?
<pleia2> I was up then this morning :)
<pleia2> but FWIW - the access list allows any ubuntu member to give themselves ops here
<pleia2> so if you guys need to change the topic, get ops during the session, etc, you can with /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-classroom
 * persia tries to remember not to make presumptions about the preferred diurnal habits of others
<pleia2> s/ubuntu member/ubuntu member with an ubuntu cloak
<persia> Right.  Ubuntu Members who pay attention to IRC.  Those without cloaks may not know exactly what to do with ops :)
<pleia2> well, some people don't *want* cloaks
<pleia2> I've considered getting rid of mine because I like my rdns ;)
<persia> Sure, but people with that much -fu are likely to be able to arrange ops in other ways :)
<jp88> hi err where do i ask for help
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-06-26
<Saj0577> Hey anyone here?
 * persia apologises for the delay, but will not be able to start for about 5 more minutes.
<dholbach> persia: that's fine - let's wait for the people who show up a bit late :-)
<persia> Right.  Pologies again for the (extended) delay.
<persia> Welcome to the session on interpreting and using apport retraces.
<norsetto> Pologies accepted
<persia> Today, we'll be looking to understand, and hopefully discover a solution for Bug #180363 in nicotine
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 180363 in nicotine "nicotine crashed with IndexError in _parse()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180363
<persia> To help follow along, I encourage everyone to collect a text editor, and the hardy nicotine source.
<persia> So, apport is the incredibly useful tool that is installed on all our machines to allow us to get better quality bug reports, especially for crashes.
<persia> When a program crashes, apport notices, and prepares a crash report.  When so enabled, it prompts the user to submit the crash report to launchpad as a new bug.
<persia> There, the apport-retracer system will review the bug, possible determine it to be duplicate, and help with additional information (e.g. retraced stacktrace with symbols for stripped binaries).
<persia> Apport bug reports typically explain the type of crash in the title, have some information in the description, along with basic information about the package version, installed Ubuntu version, and user environment.
<persia> This is followed by a single comment with a number of attachments, representing further information apport collected from the user system.
<persia> For this bug, we have four attachments: Dependencies.txt, ProcMaps.txt, ProcStatus.txt, and Traceback.txt, which seems fairly normal for python crash bugs.
<persia> Dependencies.txt shoes the entire tree of recursive dependencies for the crashing package.  This can be useful to determine if someone has upgraded to the latest version, or if the bug appears to also be in a dependency, which version of the code one ought inspect.
<persia> ProcMaps.txt shows the local address space for associated objects (libraries, data) used by the application.  I've never found this useful, but it may provide insight in cases of library symbol contention and the like.
<persia> ProcStatus.txt provides information about the process itself, including the pid access permissions, memory allocations, and permissions/capabilities.  In general, I usually only check this to make sure the memory allocations (Vm* are not overly large  (100s of GB), which may indicate a runaway memory leak.
<persia> Lastly, we have what I consider most interesting, Traceback.txt, which explains the call stack at the time of the crash, and will guide the investigation of the code towards determining the problem exactly.
<persia> Are there any questions about the basic format of a python apport-crash bug?
<james_w> not from me
<norsetto> persia: perhaps few words about ThreadStacktrace.txt and Registers.txt ?
<persia> OK.  Now, when triaging an apport crash bug, it's important to make sure it's complete.  If there isn't a trace, or it is unreadable, it may need to be retraced, or if the bug is old, it may be worth asking the submitter to submit an updated crash report.
<persia> norsetto: Those happen in other languages, but good point.
 * persia grabs a bug with those attachments
<siretart> when working on crasher bugs for packages xine, vlc or mplayer, I get a lot of bugs like bug #103756
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 103756 in xine-lib "Editing names of mp3 on nautilus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/103756
<siretart> how am I supposed to triage them?
<persia> OK.  If we look at bug #242674, we can see a few more attachments.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242674 in pidgin "pidgin crashed with SIGSEGV in g_object_notify()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242674
<siretart> sorry for disturbing, will ask again later.
<persia> siretart: No need.  queued.
<persia> CoreDump.gz is the snapshot of the process memory when it crashed.  Most of the time, you won't need to use this.
<persia> ProcEnviron.txt provides some of the environment variables that are set
<persia> Registers.txt contains the state of the processor registers at the time of the crash (which is typically only meaningful for very low-level crashes).
<persia> Stacktrace.txt is similar to Traceback.txt, except that it's a C-style stacktrace, rather than a python-style traceback.
<persia> ThreadStacktrace.txt is a stacktrace of all the currently running threads in the application, which can be interesting if there is thread contention.
<persia> For triage, I tend to consider that there is often mostly sufficient information provided by apport itself.  If the information is complete (no ?? in the traces, see bug #239842 for an example of this issue), one can likely understand the issue.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239842 in vlc "vlc crashed with SIGSEGV in rawmemchr() with rm stream" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239842
<persia> When I triage them, I often try to put a short summary of the issue in a comment before setting "Triaged", explaining where or why it crashed, as a result of the code investigation.  Often, the code investigation is sufficient to produce a small patch, which makes a welcome attachment.
<persia> Any other questions about the format of a apport bug, or the basic information provided?  (When we're done with this, we'll be investigating the nicotine but more deeply)
<persia> OK.  Now, let's take a deeper look at our source code and the Traceback.
<persia> The first thing to note is that the version of nicotine has changed between the time the bug was reported, and our current source.
<persia> This means that the line numbers will not be reliable.  This is very frequently true when investigating apport crashes.
<persia> Often, the best solution is to search the file for the relevant section.
<siretart> what was the bug number of the nicotine bug again? (sorry, I arrived late)
<persia> So, When reviewing a Traceback, we start at the top, and process downwards.
<persia> Each step represents another layer of nested function, and leads to the crash.
<persia> The first error is in /usr/bin/nicotine.  Looking at the source, there is a python script at the top level also named nicotine.
<persia> Generally, this will be the same file.  In those cases where the file we seek is not immediately available, I usually use a construction like `find . -$(filename) -print` to get the file in the source.
<norsetto> siretart: bug 180363
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 180363 in nicotine "nicotine crashed with IndexError in _parse()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180363
<siretart> thanks
<persia> norsetto: Thank you.
<persia> OK.  The Traceback says that we want line 152, which is supposed to be "result = checkenv()".
<persia> In our newer source, line 152 is "import locale", which is clearly not the issue.  If we scroll down from here a bit, we can find "result = checkenv()" at line 191.
<persia> Although sometimes source will have multiple lines with roughly the same content, we can be fairly confident this is the correct line because it is still in the root source, rather than being in a specific function (and the Traceback reports "in <module>"
<persia> At this point, we'd like to get some idea as to what we expect for result.  Scrolling down a bit first we can see that no result will continue the program, and any result will print the result and exit.
<persia> Next, we'll look for the definition of checkenv()
<persia> This is up at line 49, and we'll be looking for a gettext call in checkenv()
<persia> gettext is exceedingly commonly used, with the shorthand _(), which makes it a little hard to read the message.
<persia> We can guess that there are about 40 extra lines added, given the difference between lines 152 and 191 from our previous search, so we want to look for something somewhere between lines 90 and 130 (although this is inexact)
<persia> To help us know which is the right line, we can look further down the traceback.  While sometimes the error is in the library (gettext in this example), we ought first search our code.
<persia> Reading the Traceback, it calls gettext, which calls dgettext, which calls translation, which calls _init__, which calls _parse, which crashes.
<persia> The final error message tells us that the list index is out of range.
<persia> This looks like an attempt to translate a plural word that couldn't find the right information in the translation file.
<persia> Now, reading 40 lines of code to determine which might have a poor plural translation will be an exercise in frustration.
<persia> Luckily, launchpad keeps a copy of every source package ever uploaded, so we can look back to see which line we really wanted.
<persia> If we go back to the main bug page, and click "nicotine", we go to the nicotine package page.
<persia> On this page, we can scroll down through the versions until we find 1.8.2+dfsg-1ubuntu1.  Clicking on this headline takes us to the summary page for this version, where we can examine it.
<persia> In this case, line 90 is close to the string "You do not have Python Vorbis bindings installed.
<persia> Others will not be able to see the lengths and the bitrates
<persia> of Ogg Vorbis files that you share. You can get the from
<persia> http://www.andrewchatham.com/pyogg/.
<persia> If you're using Debian, install the python-pyvorbis package."
<persia> Returning to our current source, we can see that string starting from line 111
<persia> Now, we know the issue is with the hungarian translation, because our bug page says "LANG=hu_HU.UTF-8".
<persia> Our source package has a languages/hu directory, containing nicotine.po, which holds the translations.
<persia> Here, we can find that there is a translation available, from around line 4469
<persia> My Hungarian isn't very strong, so I'm going to trust that the translation is likely correct (although it may not be).
<persia> However, I do know that in order to check for the crash, I need to test with a hungarian locale, and try with the python-pyvorbis package uninstalled.
<persia> As a result, I can now uninstall python-pyvorbis, and execute `LANG=hu_HU.UTF-8 nicotine` to try to reproduce the crash.
<persia> If it breaks, we can describe the problem in detail (or if we know Hungarian, Python, or gettext maybe track it down).
<persia> If it works properly, we can document that it worked properly under that set of conditions, ask the submitter to verify it works for them, and suggest installing the python-pyvorbis package as a workaround.
<persia> Any questions about the Traceback review, and the process of discovering the problem?
<siretart> excellent description of how to track that particular issue down!
<persia> siretart: Thank you.
 * norsetto think it appropriate that persia should change his nick to holmes
<persia> OK.  Anyone willing to volunteer to use this session as a basis, and triage the bug on launchpad?
<siretart> or rather dr.watson ;)
<persia> Anyone?
<persia> It would really benefit from someone adding a comment about the cause of the problem, and testing to see if it can be replicated locally.  If anyone knows Hungarian, Python, or gettext, they may be able to provide more insight.
<norsetto> well, it seems that all translations are f*d up, all those msgid are marked as obsolete
<persia> norsetto: Thank you :)
<james_w> there's also siretart's question
<siretart> yes
<persia> Which one?  I'm sorry I missed it.
<siretart> in media players, I have the problem that there are many failed retraces
<siretart> e.g. bug #103756
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 103756 in xine-lib "Editing names of mp3 on nautilus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/103756
<siretart> I'm unsure how to handle these
<siretart> I don't really expect from the casual reporter to actually understand how to do a proper retrace
<james_w> in that case the user just used the wrong procedure to file the bug
<persia> siretart: For cases like that, it would be good to educate the submitter to use gnome-open (or the equivalent) to open the crash report, which ought trigger apport.
<james_w> you should close the bug and ask them to submit it using apport. apport-cli -c "/var/crash/..." or double clicking in nautilus will file it properly so that apport can do it's thing.
<siretart> okay, I see
<siretart> close with wontfix or invalid?
<james_w> Invalid
<siretart> ok
<persia> Invalid, with a comment requesting them to use apport to open a new bug.
<persia> (using the same crash report).
<james_w> explain that you are only closing it as the above procedure will open a new bug report, you are not rejecting their bug.
<persia> In cases where the retracer cannot find the symbols (?? in the trace), it usually means that no ddeb exists for the version the submitter is using.  In these cases, verify that there are ddebs for all dependencies available for the release the submitter is using, and then ask them to replicate, opening a new bug.
<norsetto> what about adding explicit dbg packages? Seems like a good idea to do for packages which have frequent crashes
<siretart> I'm providing -dbg packages for ffmpeg and xine packages. does apport get confused by those?
<siretart> norsetto: :)
<norsetto> siretart: ;-)
<persia> I don't actually know if apport gets confused: I'll suggest asking pitti, but I seem to remember something about apport handling those from the changelog at some point: might check the code first.
<persia> apport does get confused if the package doesn't call dh_strip somewhere in debian/rules: manual stripping or failure to strip binaries are the most common cause of failed retraces.
<persia> While -dbg packages are incredibly helpful in cases where submitters are expected to produce their own stacktraces, they have little benefit for an apport-enabled environment.
<persia> Any further questions?  We're a little over time (Sorry that I started late), but I'd like to make sure everyone's questions are answered before we close.
 * norsetto hands over a boquet of flowers to persia
<pleia2> great session persia :)
<james_w> thanks persia
<persia> Thanks everyone for attending.  Please feel free to ask me in #ubuntu-motu if there are any future questions about tracking down a specific trace, or in #ubuntu-bugs if you have triage questions.
<siretart> indeed, thanks for the session persia.
<persia> james_w: pleia2: Do logs of these sessions happen automatically?  Is there a team that edits them for readability and puts them on the wiki?
<james_w> persia: I was going to do that.
<pleia2> persia: I'll go ahead and post the logs - if you'd like to do a summary that's cool, or I'll see if someone on the team would like to
<pleia2> or james_w can :D
<pleia2> thanks james_w
<persia> james_w: Excellent.  Thank you.  It's nice to have such a proactive Dean :)
<james_w> pleia2: perhaps we should have a discussion about MOTU school/classroom interaction.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> certainly don't want to step on each others toes
 * persia hopes the discussion happens here so hecklers can pursue their interests :)
<james_w> pleia2: do you have time now?
<pleia2> sure
<james_w> Unfortunately I'm not on the -classroom list, and I've missed all the discussion around starting it up again. Is there a "mission statement" for the project?
<pleia2> essentially it's what is in the Introduction on the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
<james_w> so MOTU school seems to fit in with that quite well.
<james_w> it's about getting involved, and it's more advanced stuff.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> reading your wiki page - this is great, you guys keep track of your sessions
<pleia2> so we can just link to your resources
<james_w> there's not many to track :-)
<pleia2> this is a great way to do things
 * pleia2 ponders encouraging other teams to do this sort of thing
<pleia2> and having classroom be a sort of aggregation
<james_w> that might help with finding topics and presenters.
 * pleia2 nods
<james_w> so are you happy to continue like we did for this session for a while and see how it goes?
<pleia2> yep!
<james_w> as in I organise sessions and Cc: the list.
<pleia2> do you typically send a message to the lists with a link to the logs/notes of the session?
<james_w> "typically" :-)
<james_w> I think I did once, and then didn't last time. Do you think I should.
<james_w> ?
<pleia2> yeah, there was one fellow who replied to the lists asking if there would be logs
<pleia2> plus it'll help me keep the Classroom wiki updated - like a reminder "this session is done, go link up"
<james_w> sure, I'll do that once they are up.
<pleia2> thanks :)
<james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/IntrepretingApportRetraces
<james_w> spam sent.
<maek> so whats it all about ??
<RonLu1> jrib: worked only in irc.ubuntu.com.... in irc.freenode.net doesn't work
<RonLu1> identify
<jrib> RonLu1: ok
<jrib> erm
<RonLut> jrib: ok... what's now?
<maek> so whats it all about ??
<jrib> RonLut: you know the path you are copying to correct?
<RonLut> right.
<jrib> RonLut: and the file is on your desktop
<RonLut> jrib: right.
<jrib> so you just do: cp '~/Desktop/name of file' /place/you/want/to/copy/to
<jrib> then give the error...
<RonLut> jrib: without sudo?
<jrib> right
<RonLut> ok jrib, here is what I wrote in terminal and what I get back:
<RonLut> ronlut@ronlut-desktop:~$ cp '/home/ronlut/Desktop/EURO08.exe' '/home/ronlut/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/EA Sports/UEFA EURO 2008'
<RonLut> cp: cannot create regular file `/home/ronlut/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/EA Sports/UEFA EURO 2008/EURO08.exe': Permission denied
<RonLut> jrib?
<jrib> RonLut: ok now give permissions of the location and all of its parents directories
<RonLut> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23180/
<RonLut> Which parent directories?
<jrib> /home/ronlut/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/EA Sports
<jrib> /home/ronlut/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/
<RonLut> By the way, thank you for helping me... I really appreciate it!
<jrib> /home/ronlut/.wine/drive_c/
<jrib> etc...
<jrib> RonLut: wait, isn't the file there already?
<RonLut> it is... I need to replace
<jrib> give yourself write permissions on it
<RonLut> jrib:  :( how to do that?
<jrib> chmod +w /path/to/file     or just right click -> properties
<RonLut> thank you
<RonLut> It works...
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-06-27
<_str_theory> Hi, can someone point me toward instructions to compiling ubuntu with gcc?
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-06-22
<delcoyote> hi
<evanrmurphy> hi delcoyote
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-06-24
<somaunn> hello
<somaunn> what is the cmd to see the kernel version
<sattam> socceroos: ask in #ubuntu
<socceroos> sattam: i think you're talking to somaunn? =)
<sattam> oh sorry
<socceroos> you're right mate. =)
<DKcross> hello friends
<socceroos> hello
<DKcross> socceroos,  how are you man?
<altman> Hi, does anyone know how to create a source package (.tar) that can be built just using "./configure" and "make" and "make install"?
<redsoxking> does anyone talk in this room? LoL
<nhandler> redsoxking: This room isn't for normal chat. It is for classroom sessions (see the topic). There will be a sesson in 3.5 hours
<redsoxking> ok cool, whats the topic?
<nhandler> redsoxking: Please read the channel topic. The upcoming session is about pbuilder
<redsoxking> ok ok, im new at this i just found this and I've only had linux for 2 weeks, sorry, never used a chat room b4
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-06-25
* nhandler changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-classroom || Now: Testing your packages using pbuilder || Run 'date -u' in a terminal to find out the UTC time
<nhandler> Hello everyone. My name is Nathan Handler, and today we will be learning about pbuilder.
<nhandler> Can I have a quick show of hands from anyone who is here for the session?
<Quintasan> \o
<mschafer> Howdy.
 * mbt raises his hand
<nhandler> If at any point in the session you have a question, feel free to stop me in order to ask it.
<sdennie> \o
<nhandler> When packaging, it is very important to test that the package builds prior to uploading it to the official repositories.
<nhandler> Test building allows us to catch and fix mistakes before the package is made available to thousands of other users.
<evanrmurphy> sorry I'm late
<nhandler> The majority of uploads for Ubuntu are for the development release (currently Ubuntu 9.10, Karmic Koala). However, due to the unstable nature of the development release, many developers prefer to stick with a slightly more stable release.
<nhandler> No problem evanrmurphy ;)
<nhandler> This is where pbuilder comes into play.
<nhandler> pbuilder allows developers to create and manage a minimal Ubuntu chroot.
<nhandler> The great thing about pbuilder is that the chroot can be for any version of Ubuntu, not just the one you are currently running.
<nhandler> This allows developers to package for the development release while still running the latest stable release on their computers.
<nhandler> A pbuilder chroot only contains the core essential packages. This allows developers to verify that their build dependencies are correct.
<nhandler> Once a package is done building in pbuilder, the chroot is left untouched. This means that it can be used to build multiple packages without worrying about it getting cluttered with extra files and applications.
<nhandler> Right about now, you should be starting to see why so many developers use pbuilder to test their packages prior to uploading.
<nhandler> For those of you who attended Dustin Kirkland's session about Personal Package Archives (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs/2009-05-07), you might be wondering why you would want to use pbuilder instead of simply uploading to your PPA on Launchpad.
<nhandler> There are a few reasons you might want to do this.
<nhandler> First, PPAs only support building packages for amd64, i386, and lpia. However, Ubuntu builds packages for several other architecutres. You can use pbuilder to test that your package will build on these archs.
<nhandler> Since Launchpad PPAs are used by thousands of users, there is a delay between the time you upload your package and the time it begins to build. This delay does not exist with pbuilder (you also do not need to upload the package).
<nhandler> pbuilder also has several other benefits that will be discussed later.
<nhandler> Earlier, I mentioned that pbuilder was for creating and managing Ubuntu chroots. That was only partially true.
<nhandler> pbuilder can also be used to create and manage Debian chroots. This is very useful for users who contribute to both Ubuntu and Debian.
<nhandler> You can also have multiple chroots for different Ubuntu and Debian versions. I personally have a chroot for intrepid, jaunty, karmic, and sid.
<nhandler> Finally, for those of you running amd64, you can also use pbuilder to build i386 packages. However, you can't build amd64 packages on i386.
<nhandler> The ~/.pbuilderrc file is what you will use to configure pbuilder.
<nhandler> All developers have a slightly different system for handling multiple chroots with pbuilder.
<nhandler> I keep all of my pbuilder stuff on an external hard drive, and I have a special script to help me switch between my multiple ~/.pbuilderrc files. I have made these files available in a bazaar branch: lp:~nhandler/+junk/pbuilder
<nhandler> If you decide to use my scripts, be sure to modify the varaible at the top of the files so that it has the correct path.
<nhandler> You can then do '/media/pbuilder/switchPbuilder karmic' to switch to the karmic pbuilderrc file. Note that this will cause you to lose your current ~/.pbuilderrc file (if it exists). You might want to back it up first.
<nhandler> The above command assumes that you places the pbuilder files at /media/pbuilder. If they are anywhere else, your command will be slightly different
<nhandler> If this is the first time using the pbuilderrc file, you will need to do a 'sudo pbuilder create' before you can do anything.
<nhandler> Any questions?
<sdennie> Yes, but I'll wait.  ;)
<nhandler> Ok sdennie
<nhandler> Now we will take a look at pbuilder hooks.
<Quintasan> I have a suggestion if you allow :P
<nhandler> Go ahead Quintasan
<Quintasan> if you are new to pbuilder and need many chroots, try using .pbuilderrc form ubuntu wiki -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Multiple pbuilders
<nhandler> Quintasan: I link to that later. The issue with that is that the setup on the wiki does not work well for other scripts that run pbuilder for you.
<nhandler> This is because you need to pass a dist option to pbuilder each time with that setup
<nhandler> Quintasan: However, thank you for linking them to the wiki page (I was going to do that later ;) )
<nhandler> Now, back to hooks
<nhandler> Hooks allow us to extend the functionality of pbuilder to make our lives easier.
<nhandler> I use 3 hooks with pbuilder: B10list-missing (list missing files), C10shell (drops to shell upon FTBFS), and D10aptupdate (run apt-get update before anything).
<nhandler> I have created a bazaar for these hooks as well: lp:~nhandler/+junk/hooks
<nhandler> You can place them in /media/pbuilder/pbuilder/hooks. Be sure to leave the prefix on the filenames.
<nhandler> Hooks beginning with B<digit><digit><name> are executed after the build system finishes building successfully and before copying back the build result.
<nhandler> C<digit><digit><name> hooks are executed after build failures and before cleanup
<nhandler> D<digit><digit><name> hooks are executed before unpacking the source inside the chroot.
<nhandler> There are several other prefixes that you can use for your hooks. You can read more about them in the pbuilder manpage.
<nhandler> Now, to test out using pbuilder, we are going to try and build the hello package.
<nhandler> Before doing this, make sure you have 'deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ karmic main' in your /etc/apt/sources.list (This line for other Ubuntu versions should work as well) or the ubuntu-dev-tools package installed.
<nhandler> You can now do 'apt-get source hello' or 'pull-lp-source hello karmic' to download the hello source package.
<nhandler> This should consist of a .diff.gz, a .dsc, and a .orig.tar.gz. We will now build the binary package using pbuilder.
<nhandler> Type 'sudo pbuilder build hello_*.dsc' to start building the binary. You can use 'sudo pbuilder build --logfile build.log hello_*.dsc' if you want to store the build log to a file.
<nhandler> If you are using my pbuilder files, you should now look in /media/pbuilder/pbuilder/result/karmic, and you should see a nice .deb that you can install (if you want).
<evanrmurphy> log since 00:01 UTC, for those who just came: http://paste.ubuntu.com/203246/
<nhandler> You have successfully built the hello package in pbuilder!
<nhandler> Any questions/problems so far?
<sdennie> nhandler: Yes
<nhandler> Go ahead sdennie
<sdennie> nhandler: You didn't describe how pbuilder was creating the toolchain for the distro you planned to build against or what the technology was to allow that to happen.  I'm assuming some fakeroot magic for the latter.
<nhandler> sdennie: That magic lies in the /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-createbuildenv file.
<nhandler> That file uses debootstrap to create the chroot
<sdennie> Excellent.  That's answers the first part.
<sdennie> Or maybe both parts
<sdennie> Anyway, don't let me stop you.  We can chat offline if I have more questions.  :)
<nhandler> sdennie: debootstrap is the technology that allows it to happen. If you want to get more detailed, feel free to take a look at the debootstrap source, but that is a little more advanced than we will go tonight ;)
<sdennie> Fair enough.  Proceed.  ;)
<nhandler> If you are not using the D10aptupdate script. be sure to run 'sudo pbuilder update' prior to building a package. This will make sure that your chroot has access to the latest packages in the repositories.
<mschafer> nhandler:  So pbuilder-createbuildenv installs both the toolchain and the other packages marked essential?
<nhandler> mschafer: Yes, it will take care of creating a chroot with all of the packages you need for a very minimal Ubuntu/Debian installation which resembles the build daemons
<mschafer> Okay, thanks.
<nhandler> Now, I want to show you all a few more uses for pbuilder.
<nhandler> There are several instances where having a clean environment to run a script would be useful.
<nhandler> You can login to a pbuilder chroot using 'sudo pbuilder login'. Once you exit (Ctrl+d), the chroot will go back to the way it was, just like when building a package.
<nhandler> If for some reason you want to save your changes to the chroot (i.e. If you update the /etc/apt/sources.list file), you can pass the --save-after-login option to the pbuilder command.
<nhandler> A few weeks ago, Daniel T Chen showed us how to use piuparts to test our packages (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs/2009-04-23). By using the --basetgz or --pbuilder flags, you can have piuparts use your pbuilder chroot for testing packages.
<nhandler> Any more questions?
<evanrmurphy> nhandler: Yes.
<nhandler> Go ahead evanrmurphy
<evanrmurphy> nhandler: You made a comment about pbuilder-dist earlier. Do you recommend not using it?
<nhandler> evanrmurphy: I didn't mention pbuilder-dist earlier. I was talking about the method described on the wiki page for handling mulitple pbuiler chroots
<nhandler> I personally do not use pbuilder-dist, but I know a lot of developers who love it.
<evanrmurphy> nhandler: I got an error on the example you showed until I realized I had to replace "pbuilder-dist <version>" with "pbuilder", so I can see it complicates examples. ;)
<Ampelbein> nhandler: yes. there are cases where pbuilder won't fail to build, yet the buildd's will. I was given the advice to add pkgbinarymangler as extra build-dep to resemble more closely the buildds. are there any more tweaks like that?
<nhandler> Ampelbein: Yes, you can use 'sudo pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd' when creating the chroot
<nhandler> For those of you who are interested in pbuilder-dist, it is part of the ubuntu-dev-tools pacakge
<nhandler> * package
<nhandler> I would suggest reading the pbuilder-dist manpage to learn about it, as its usage is slightly different than pbuilder
<Ampelbein> ok, thanks.
<evanrmurphy> nhandler: thanks
<nhandler> If you are interested in learning more about pbuilder, I would suggest reading:
<nhandler> The pbuilder manpage: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/karmic/en/man8/pbuilder.8.html
<mschafer> nhandler:  I had been using a fresh install in a virtual machine to do builds in the past.  Sounds like pbuilder is better because it gives the minimal set of other packages.  Would you recommend pbuilder over a VM?  Any other reasons for or against?
<nhandler> mschafer: I would suggest using pbuilder over a VM
<nhandler> One reason is that it is more like the buildd's than a VM
<nhandler> You also have the ability to use pbuilder hooks with it, which really are useful for debugging FTBFS issues
<mschafer> Can you use pbuilder on an Ubuntu system to run a Debian chroot?
<nhandler> mschafer: Yes. As I said earlier, I have both Ubuntu chroots and a Debian sid chroot
<nhandler> mschafer: A pbuilder chroot is also generally faster and easier to use than a VM
<mschafer> Though I would imagine that I would still need a Debian VM to actually run the application, since I'm pretty sure that Gnome is not an essential package and therefore not in the pbuilder chroot.
<nhandler> mschafer: pbuilder will *not* help you test that the applications actually runs. It just tests that it builds
<mschafer> Ah, gotcha.
<nhandler> And it will pull in any Build-Depends that it needs in order to build the package
<sdennie> That's a good point.  Does the application build outside the chroot and install/deb inside the chroot?
<nhandler> sdennie: It doesn't install the binary .deb file that it builds. However, the file is placed outside of the chroot so that you can access it later
<sdennie> nhandler: Right.  That's what I mean.  But, does the building happen in the chroot or does it download every dep you may need every time within the clean chroot?
<ajmitch> all of the compilation happens in the chroot (which is why you can setup ccache in the pbuilder config)
<nhandler> If you want, you can login to a pbuilder chroot and modify the /etc/apt/sources.list file to use your PPA in order to satisfy Build-Depends as well
<nhandler> Let me give you guys a few more links that might help
<sdennie> ajmitch: Thanks.  :)
<nhandler> The Kubuntu Ninja Build Environment wiki: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/BuildEnvironment
<ajmitch> sdennie: a clean chroot is used for each build, but a cache of previously downloaded build dependencies is kept
<sdennie> ajmitch: Very cool.  Thanks.
<nhandler> The last link talks about creating an environment that takes advantage of multiple chroots and hooks.
<nhandler> All of the hooks I mentioned today can be found in lp:~kubuntu-members/pbuilder/pbuilder-hooks
<nhandler> Any last comments or questions?
<sdennie> Interesting stuff nhandler.  Thanks a lot for the presentation.
<nhandler> You are welcome sdennie. Logs of this session will be available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs/2009-06-25
<mschafer> Thank you, nhandler.
<nhandler> Since we have a few minutes, does anyone have any comments/suggestions about the series of Packaging Training Sessions we have been holding?
<nhandler> Any topics that you would like to see covered?
<Quintasan> Thanks for session nhandler, I'm not so new to pbuilder but I learned lot's of intresting things (super ultra top secret ninja hooks :>)
<mschafer> I noticed there was a recent session on packaging Java apps, but I haven't read the logs.  A session on Python apps would be good for me.
<Quintasan> I'm intrested in packaging core KDE things
<nhandler> mschafer: That is something that we should probably have. We do have a session on packaging Perl apps coming up as well ;)
<nhandler> Quintasan: There is a Kubuntu Tutorial Day next week you might like Quintasan
<nhandler> Quintasan: You also might be interested in JontheEchidna's packaging training session: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs/2009-06-18
<nhandler> Any other comments/suggestions?
<evanrmurphy> nhandler: Thanks. I'm still wading through the tutorials and trying to get oriented in the Ubuntu dev world.
<mschafer> I'm currently working with a package that depends on other packages, but the dependencies are heavily patched.  Perhaps this is just something that I should learn from an experienced packager, but if it's meaty enough for a training session, that would be good.
<mschafer> Maybe a session for gnarly dependencies or something like that.
<nhandler> mschafer: I'm not sure I understand what your suggestion is.
 * Quintasan scans thorugh the LP branches he got, lots of reading
<evanrmurphy> nhandler: Are there sessions for other aspects of developer work or is it focused on packaging? Or does packaging just about cover it?
<nhandler> evanrmurphy: Is there a certain aspect in particular you are interested in?
<mschafer> Probably because I'm too clueless.  Let's see.  How does one package a software project when upstream has altered other software that are already in packages but don't have the upstream alterations?  As I said, this may be something that isn't of general interest.  But it's something I'm currently working through.
<nhandler> evanrmurphy: Pretty much, any topic related to Ubuntu development is fair game
<nhandler> mschafer: Is there a reason for not updating the versions of the dependencies currently in the Ubuntu archives?
<mschafer> The dependency upstream doesn't have those changes.  The upstream of the package that I'm working on described their changes as so extensive, they're just shy of a fork.
<evanrmurphy> nhandler: Perhaps a panorama of how everything in the developer community fits together, a more zoomed-out overview. Then again, there's a good bit of that in the documentation.
<mschafer> Well, this may not be a widespread problem.  It's just my current challenge, so I thought I'd mention it.  Don't want to take up any more of your night (morning).
<nhandler> mschafer: Yeah, that is a little too specific in my opinion for a session, but feel free to ask questions in #ubuntu-motu about it
<mschafer> nhandler:  Thanks!  And thank you for your time tonight.  Very informative.
<nhandler> evanrmurphy: I think several people have touched on that in their sessions, but having a session dedicated to that wouldn't hurt
<evanrmurphy> thanks again for the good session
<nhandler> You are welcome
<nhandler> Are there any more questions?
<nhandler> Ok then, thanks for coming everyone
<nhandler> Remember, you can always find details about the Packaging Training Sessions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training
* nhandler changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-classroom || Upcoming: || Run 'date -u' in a terminal to find out the UTC time
<itnet7> Thanks nhandler !
<evanrmurphy> nhandler: I don't know if you're still there. I hope you can answer this question when convenient:
<evanrmurphy> I just installed the hello*.deb we made during the session, and I'm trying to figure out if it does anything I can test.
<evanrmurphy> Reading through the README right now... is there a hello world binary or something I should be able to find on the system and execute?
<nhandler> evanrmurphy: Type 'hello' in a terminal
<evanrmurphy> oh!
<evanrmurphy> :)
<evanrmurphy> It even did it in my chosen localization.
<evanrmurphy> nhandler: Thank you very much!
<nhandler> You are welcome evanrmurphy
<oussama> hi all
<oussama> who can help me learn ubuntu?
<pleia2> oussama: the class schedule is in the topic
<oussama> date -u
<truthordare> hy all.. i am new to this.. i have been using ubuntu since a long time.. and befor that was using debian and slackware..
<truthordare> i was looking at web for participating in ubuntu and i found this link to the irc..
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-06-27
<jcastro> 10 minutes!
<tgpraveen> hi ppl
<tgpraveen> i know c/c++ and java to somewhat ok level
<tgpraveen> i want to help in floss software
<tgpraveen> by writing/fixing code
<tgpraveen> can anybody guide me from where i should start and how?
<jcastro> find a project on launchpad and dig in?
<tgpraveen> is there a good book on the tools used or some good resources>
<tgpraveen> dig in?
<tgpraveen> jcastro: what all should i know before i can dig in?
<tgpraveen> git?gtk?
<tgpraveen> or is there some good beginner's guide or something?
<jcastro> I would just browse a project and pull it with bzr and just start messing with it
<jcastro> there's no real guide afaik
<Bram> start by fiding a project that interess you, then you will know what to learn to be able to contribute to it
<jcastro> or you could find a project you care about and mail their list asking for a place to start
<jcastro> what bram said!
<jcastro> (5 minutes until "How to Run A Jam" session!)
<Bram> tgpraveen: are there any soft you use and you like that you think miss a feature or in witch one you want to invest ? (avoid soft like firefox or the entire gnome/kde :p)
<jcastro> yeah, start with something small
<tgpraveen> Bram: i am intrested in telepathy/empathy
<jcastro> tgpraveen: also, if you search launchpad for "bitesize" bugs there are usually little one liners and stuff you can fix
<jcastro> tgpraveen: #telepathy on freenode I believe.
<tgpraveen> project and i hang out in their irc channel and file a lot of bugs and all but dont know how i
<tgpraveen> should start with the code part
<tgpraveen> their really needs to be a nice starting point/beginner's guide explaining and guiding to stuff like what the version control tools are, what toolkits are etc
<Bram> tgpraveen: oh I know some of the dev of this project, do you know glib and others gnome techno ?
<jcastro> tgpraveen: yeah that's been a problem for a long time
<Bram> they do a lot of C and some python and if my memory is good they uses git
<tgpraveen> Bram: no i am absolute beginner
<jcastro> unfortunately lots of projects do things differently, so one true guide would be difficult
<tgpraveen> Bram: so what so what gnome technology should i specifically learn
<jcastro> ok, who is here for the How to Run a Jam session?
<tgpraveen> should i begin with learning glib? if so what is best way to do so?
<fetova> me :)
<jcastro> woo!
<Bram> jcastro: me to
<fetova> :D
<jcastro> ok, let's give it a few minutes for the stragglers
<jcastro> and then we'll begin
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams
<jcastro> for those of you who want to cheat
<fetova> first time to ubuntu-mx, so want to know what to do in a better way xD
<Bram> tgpraveen: I don't know exactly what techno they use but start hacking in C/glib and start to learn how to use git
<Bram> tgpraveen: btw it's a big project but I think if you ask them they will find some small bugs that you can fix
<tgpraveen> Bram: ok i have started with learning git. what do u mean by hacking in glib? reading their docs?
<Bram> tgpraveen: make some c code using the glib
<jcastro> ok, let's get started
<jcastro> tgpraveen: we have a session now in this channel
<tgpraveen> hmm... ok. Bram jcastro thx for ur help bye
<jcastro> can you guys move the discussion to -chat or something?
<jcastro> tgpraveen: don't leave permanently!
<tgpraveen> jcastro: ok
<jcastro> tgpraveen: check out the gnome love project as well
<jcastro> it's designed to get people started
<jcastro> that will at least move in you the right direction
<jcastro> ok, so this session is How to Run a Successful Jam
<jcastro> please holler if you're here for that and from what local team you are from
<cyphermox> yep, from Ubuntu-Quebec
<jcastro> ok, so the reason we are doing these sessions
<jcastro> is to give people some best practice knowledge on how to run jams, and share good ideas
<jcastro> and tell you what NOT to do, heh
<jcastro> ok, so in October we are having what we call the Ubuntu Global Jam
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<jcastro> we do one of these per cycle
<jcastro> in the past we called them the Ubuntu Global Bug Jam
<jcastro> because all we did was bugs, but this year we're going bigger because that's how we roll
<jcastro> so the idea is that over a weekend, ubuntu local teams from around the world go do awesome things.
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam/Events
<jcastro> so right now locos are signing up to do bug jams, installfests, translation jams, whatever your team feels they can contribute to the most.
<jcastro> the fundamental thing to remember about jams is that they're ALL about your local team
<jcastro> the goal of all these jams is for your loco team to get together and have a good time.
<jcastro> when you start off with a jam some locos get bent around the axle on details
<jcastro> like "we only triaged X amount of bugs, we failed!"
<jcastro> don't think of it that way
<jcastro> the coordinated work around the world is great and helps ubuntu tremendously, but getting your loco together and forming those bonds is the key there
<jcastro> our first jam was pretty much a disaster
<jcastro> by the time you do a few they will be second-hand
<jcastro> so don't worry too much if you have a bug jam and you don't get through alot of bugs or something
<jcastro> the main key is to develop your local team
<jcastro> any questions so far?
<jcastro> ok
<jcastro> So, we happen to have a place where we write down all the good practices on running jams:
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams
<jcastro> The most annoying bit is figuring out a venue
<jcastro> this can be difficult or easy, depending on where you live
<jcastro> usually what we do is assign one person to deal with a venue
<jcastro> and then they call around or whatever
<jcastro> one thing to remember is the audience of your loco
<jcastro> so for example if you have a bunch of teenagers who want to help you wouldn't want to have your jam in a pub where they can't get in. :D
<jcastro> power and internet access is pretty important as well
<jcastro> In our loco we find that having a projector is useful
<jcastro> if someone in the jam "gets stuck" on something we put it up on the projector
<jcastro> and then the group discusses how they would triage that bug
<jcastro> or work on that piece of code
<jcastro> or whatever
<jcastro> so if you have access to a projector that helps people collaborate
<jcastro> it also encourages people to discuss things out loud instead of migrating to their little groups and sticking their heads in a laptop for hours without talking to people.
<jorgevazq> how suitable would it be to have the jam in a university?
<jcastro> universities are perfect
<jcastro> for a couple of reasons
<jcastro> first off, they have a bunch of students and student organizations
<jorgevazq> they also have good internet connections
<jorgevazq> and projectors
<jcastro> when we did installfests here we got with the local computer science department at the university
<jcastro> and they lent us routers, switches, cables, all sorts of stuff
<jcastro> the dean even stopped by!
<jcastro> students are always motivated (more than us old people), so I encourage you to definatly take advantage of hosting at a university
<jcastro> you can even sometimes have interested professors stopping by
<jcastro> which is nice because you can tell them about linux and open source, and hopefully get them interested
<jcastro> if they get interested they will want more information, so your loco can help them with that
<Bram> (projector == bug manager ?)
<jcastro> Bram: what do you mean?
<Bram> 17:14  <jcastro> In our loco we find that having a projector is useful
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> so what we do, is we break up into teams
<jcastro> and start triaging bugs
<jcastro> (we do bug jams)
<jcastro> and then when someone gets stuck
<jcastro> we put the bug on the projector
<jcastro> and then we all talk about how we should triage it
<jcastro> and usually a more experienced person will say "we should mark this bug as confirmed" (or whatever)
<jcastro> then people agree and/or discuss
<jcastro> then we go back to our bug lists.
<jcastro> we use it as a "I need help from the group" type thing
<jcastro> you can also use it to put your todo list up there
<jcastro> or use a whiteboard if available, etc.
<jcastro> Any other questions on venue or equipment?
<jorgevazq> yes, I do have a question:
<jcastro> Ok, the next step is promoting your event
<jcastro> this is where you get alot of bang for the buck
<jcastro> you want to post to local lists
<jcastro> so here, we try to promote it to local lugs, local python and java groups, and other techie groups in the area
<jcastro> putting up posters at universities has also been useful for us.
<jcastro> some of the larger locos like France have signs and all sorts of goodies already premade and ready to be modified
<jcastro> you can post on loco-contacts to ask around for resources other local teams have made
<jcastro> there are a ton of things on the wiki you can remix and reuse to make nice looking posters if you want
<jcastro> also blogging about it, getting it on the ubuntu weekly news, things like that always help
<jcastro> and don't forget mentioning it on the forums!
<jcastro> one useful place I've seen people have good success with is their local computer store
<jcastro> usually you can put off a little sheet with your list address or something and stick it on the bulletin board.
<jcastro> this is a good random way of getting people interested in open source in general.
<jcastro> sometimes we try to have a jam and random new people just show up
<jcastro> which we don't plan for but when it happens you should look at it as a good opportunity to educate them about ubuntu, give them a CD, and answer questions
<jcastro> even if they're only vaguely interesting at the minimum when they go home they will say "wow, what a nice bunch of people" :)
<Bram> having beers works to :p
<jcastro> When it comes to the jam itself really the only way to learn it is to do it
<jcastro> yes, beer helps!
<jcastro> we coordinate with other locos during the jam to see what's going on
<jcastro> in fact last year the guys from chicago called us to see how we were doing.
<jcastro> and we shared some tips over the phone
<jcastro> absolutely do not be afraid to ask other, more established locos for help and guidance.
<fetova> annoted xD
<jcastro> We added docs jams this time too
<jcastro> so an easy one to get started with would be to ask around what people are interested in when they get there
<jcastro> and then maybe go to the wiki page of that thing
<jcastro> and collectively fix it
<jcastro> a great tool to use for this is gobby
<jcastro> which is a collaborative text editor
<jcastro> you can grab the wiki page, everyone can work on different parts at the same time, and then one person can just upload it
<jcastro> or you can grab a bunch of wiki pages
<jcastro> and assign them to teams or whatever
<jcastro> I like to try to assign people into little teams
<jcastro> usually like, an experienced person with a new person
<jcastro> so that they can learn from each other
<jcastro> that way, by the time the next jam starts, you'll have 2 experienced people. :D
<jcastro> but you can organize however you want
<jcastro> some people just want to show up and they already have a list of things to work on
<jcastro> so just let them do their thing
<jcastro> some people want more detailed tutorials on how to do stuff
<jcastro> that's fine too
<jcastro> as long as your group feels it's doing something valuable then anything goes.
<jcastro> sometimes we've had plans and new people show up and we end up just spending the whole time telling new people how to report a bug or something.
<jcastro> and that's ok.
<jcastro> so while your jam is running it's important to talk to the rest of the world
<jcastro> we have people in irc saying hi to each other and talking about what they are working on
<jorgevazq> you mean, other locos??
<jcastro> yep
<jorgevazq> :)
<jcastro> this is where the whole "Global" thing comes in
<jcastro> actually, putting the global channel on the projector would be fun too
<jcastro> it makes you feel like the entire planet is working on ubuntu at the same time
<jcastro> but it's also good for coordinating work
<jcastro> one group might say "hey, over here in michigan-us we are working on amarok bugs, anyone want to help out?" or whatever
<jcastro> you can also have friendly competitions as well
<jcastro> which I think all the germans do, heh
<jcastro> while the event is happening you should be telling the world about it
<jcastro> and taking pictures and everything.
<jcastro> one thing we learned was that by taking pictures of everyone having a good time this helps you next time when you are working on planning it
<jcastro> because people see the pictures and say "wow, I should have gone, I will go to the next one, look at all those beers!"
<jorgevazq> besides, it's good for the posters
<jcastro> and of course we encourage you to put them on posters, etc.
<jcastro> yep!
<jcastro> and on your wiki as well
<jcastro> we like to showcase the diversity of our local teams, so the more pictures you put up, the cooler the posters and presentations look. :D
<jcastro> this helps build up buzz and excitement
<jcastro> ok, so let's talk about some things to avoid
<jcastro> first off, it's important that your venue stuff is squared away
<jcastro> having 50 geeks show up to a pub with no internet is a buzzkill
<jcastro> or someone forgets to make a reservation or whatever.
<jcastro> also you should pick a location that is open and is agreeable to most people
<jcastro> when I planned our first release party for ubuntu here in 2005, I did it in a bar and there were a bunch of people smoking
<jcastro> and people who were nonsmokers were choking to death
<jcastro> so just something to think about
<jcastro> (now we try to have them outside, heh)
<jcastro> also you should ensure that you're not leaving people out because they might not be experienced with ubuntu
<jcastro> "sorry you can't participate this is for developers only" or whatever wouldn't be right
<jcastro> but you all know that, that's common sense. :D
<jcastro> any other bad ideas?
<jcastro> oh
<jcastro> you should definately do a team report at the end
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports
<jcastro> basically you just fire off a mail
<jcastro> telling us how many people showed up
<jcastro> and what you learned, links to pictures, whatever
<jcastro> this helps us see how well the event is running and things we need to fix in our planning
<jcastro> it also helps us be able to map out resources better
<jcastro> so for example if it's like "we tried to have a bug jam in mexico but jorge never told me how to get started" would be a good one. :D
<fetova> xD
<jcastro> it also helps us link up locos to each other
<jorgevazq> xD
<jcastro> so for example if you had a doc jam and it went ok, maybe next time we can ask a doc team member to join you on irc to give you tips, things like that
<jcastro> any questions? That pretty much covers it.
<fetova> sweet :D
<jorgevazq> hey, I have a question
<jcastro> of course, when you get good ideas, feel free to add them to the wiki
<jcastro> jorgevazq: shoot!
<jorgevazq> here in Mexico we have been thinking about streaming parts of the jam
<jcastro> oh
<jcastro> that is a good idea!
<jorgevazq> since we can't all move to mexico city
<Bram> stupid question: have you ever tried to make a jam on irc ?
<jcastro> if you have the bandwidth to do that, that would be great
<jorgevazq> cool =)
<jcastro> Bram: for people that don't have locos they participate in irc
<jorgevazq> Bram: but IRC is less... personal
<jcastro> Bram: in fact the Club Ubuntu virtual loco is one of the larger participants
<jorgevazq> and the purpose of jams is to unite the LoCos
<jcastro> Bram: what we do here since the jam is all weekend is also jam on irc before and after the actual event
<jorgevazq> that's a good idea
<jcastro> also
<jcastro> it's a good idea to tell people things on irc before the event
<jcastro> like "I will need help learning how to do foo and bar"
<cyphermox> ah question: I'm assuming not all LoCos have events running all through the weekend, correct?
<jcastro> no
<jcastro> the weekend is there just so locos can be flexible to plan stuff
<jcastro> you don't need to have a 48 hour jam
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> also, you don't even need to do it on that weekend.
<jcastro> this is just a timed event
<jcastro> your loco can jam whenever you want
<jcastro> do it as many times as you want in a cycle, whatever works for you
<jcastro> you can also have targetted jams too
<jcastro> like, "hey guys, it's 5 weeks until release, anyone wanna jam and triage some bugs?"
<jorgevazq> :O
<jorgevazq> (didn't know that)
<ziroday> how long do the jams normally last for, what times do you find best to run them?
<jcastro> ours are about 3 hours?
<jcastro> we do them in the afternoon so we can go to dinner after
<jcastro> they don't all have to be boring and stuff either
<jcastro> have a picnic, or relax too
<jcastro> jorgevazq: we have totally social jams too, but most people just call those normal loco meetings.
<jcastro> oooh oohh, for pictures
<jcastro> normal pictures of people are fine
<jcastro> but try to have a group picture
<jorgevazq> hoho, so they don't have to look like they're hacking a bank
<jcastro> because we put a bunch of those together to make mashups and stuff
<jorgevazq> just people javing  fun
<jcastro> no, you can also have good jams without computers
<jcastro> you can tutorials, lightning talks, remember, the purpose of the jam is to improve your local team
<jcastro> so if you want to have a 5 hour session on how to use the gimp or something, then rock on with that.
<jorgevazq> can we try other crazy stuff, like translating ubuntu to Mexican-Spanish??
<jcastro> yep
<jorgevazq> sweet
<jcastro> if you look on the events list you can do "Translations Jams"
<jcastro> in fact, those are new, I don't think anyone has done that yet
<jcastro> that would be a cool way to break some new ground
<jcastro> any other questions before I wrap up?
<jcastro> ok well I hope you found this session informative
<jcastro> I certainly had a good time!
<jcastro> as always, please feel free to post to the loco list if you have questions
<jcastro> or feel free to mail me at jorge@ubuntu.com if you need help
<jorgevazq> which loco are you from?
<jcastro> I am from michigan
<jcastro> in the us.
<jorgevazq> cool... greetings from mexico
<jcastro> I am hoping to go to mexico for vacation!
<Bram> jcastro: thanks for this session o/
<stefanlsd> jcastro: we just finished running a packagejam today in south africa. 11 people :)
<jcastro> stefanlsd: that's great!
<jcastro> stefanlsd: hey you do the gears PPA right?
<stefanlsd> jcastro: yeah
<jcastro> hero.
<jcastro> I am running it with mozilla prism so I have a nice offline gmail thing on my laptop
<jcastro> it's totally great
<stefanlsd> i'd be happier if i could actually get it through revu.   ^ awesome!
<jcastro> ok, I am going to go have lunch, everyone have a great weekend!
<fetova> lol
<fetova> would be a nice idea
<jcastro> stefanlsd: yeah I have been trying to find a gears upstream to help us with that license thing
<fetova> same to you :D
<jcastro> stefanlsd: I will find you on monday and we can talk!
<jcastro> cheers everyone!
<jorgevazq> see you later
<jorgevazq> =)
<stefanlsd> jcastro: kk. thanks.  cheers :)
<jorgevazq> we'll be in touch... i hope
<ntovar> La primera charla de la tarde "Dale el efecto wow a tu escritorio"
<ntovar> Laura Delgado comienza cambiando el fondo del escritorio
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-06-28
<DKcross> some person know commmand for hibernate ubuntu
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-06-28
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Current Session: Introduction to C#: Session 4 - Instructor: juju2143 || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<pleia2> juju2143: you about?
<pleia2> hopefully he just got tied up elsewhere and will arrive soon :)
<juju2143> ohhhh right
<juju2143> the course.
<juju2143> everyone's there?
<sirmacik> yep
<sirmacik> I'm ready (;
<sirmacik> hello juju2143 and pleia2
<sirmacik> \o
<juju2143> hello.
<juju2143> so last Friday, we did classes
<juju2143> now we'll do inheritance.
<juju2143> It's one of the advanced features of OOP
<juju2143> So, like our last example, we created a Person class
<sirmacik> hmm.. I think I've lost it... could You paste it to some nopaste?
<juju2143> say you are programming some RPG game, you would like a Warrior or a magician
<juju2143> So you could create a warrior class and a Magician class
<juju2143> These classes would be exactly the same, with the exceptions of some methods such as doMagic(), or mana level
<juju2143> So why not put these methods and attributes in common in the same class?
<juju2143> I would compare it to the apt-get system of Ubuntu
<juju2143> like, Warrior and Magician both depends on libperson
<juju2143> same thing in C# and in every OOP language that supports inheritance
<juju2143> the warrior class would include the Person class and take its attributes, etc.
<juju2143> so open your console application.
<juju2143> in Main.cs you would have something like this:
<juju2143> Class Person
<juju2143> {
<juju2143> ...
<juju2143> }
<juju2143> Class Warrior : Person
<juju2143> {
<juju2143> ...
<juju2143> }
<juju2143> class Magician : Person
<juju2143> {
<juju2143> ...
<juju2143> }
<juju2143> (right, the C in class should be lowercased)
<juju2143> So it's really simple.
<juju2143> You add this : Person thing
<juju2143> and you can add methods in Warrior like if you were in Person
<juju2143> same thing in Magician, but without the methods in Warrior.
<juju2143> sirmacik, they are not needed, just have a console application handy. And paste the classes in there.
<juju2143> so if you have this:
<juju2143> class Person
<juju2143> {
<juju2143> public Person(string Sex)
<juju2143> {
<juju2143> m_sex = sex;
<juju2143> }
<juju2143> public string m_sex = "Male";
<juju2143> }
<juju2143> so in your Main() you can instanciate Person like this:
<juju2143> Person a = new Person("Male");
<juju2143> you should, even there is nothing in Warrior, instanciate it like Person, just replace Person with Warrior
<juju2143> So, that's it for inheritance.
<sirmacik> :o
<sirmacik> nice (;
<juju2143> Now there something else worth mentioning today.
<juju2143> (damn I forgot what it's called)
<juju2143> So you can have methods of the same name in same class
<juju2143> Only difference is the type of return and/or number of arguments.
<juju2143> (hm, finally, disregard the type of return, the compiler have no way to know which type to return)
<juju2143> So, say you have a method called doSomething.
<juju2143> You can have a dosomething that takes no arguments, one that takes a string, one that takes an int, one that takes one string and one int, etc.
<juju2143> So you could have endless methods with the same name.
<juju2143> Also, something interesting with inheritenceyou can do is polymorphism.
<juju2143> Now you are wondering what's this big word.
<juju2143> Something you should know is that all classes inherits from System.Object
<juju2143> something you can do is simply put your Person class in an object
<pedro3005> juju2143, sorry
<juju2143> like this: object o = a
<juju2143> pedro3005, oh no problem
<juju2143> so it's kinda useful if you have a method, say doSomething, who takes an argument you don't know what ii is
<juju2143> it*
<juju2143> public void doSomething(object o)
<juju2143> {
<juju2143> // do something with o, who would be anything
<juju2143> }
<pedro3005> and then could you test upon the type? like if (isint) or something?
<juju2143> yeah, something like that
<juju2143> then you can give doSomething a Person or a string
<juju2143> same thing if you replace object by Person in the above example
<juju2143> you could give a Warrior or a Magician to your method
<juju2143> So you transformed your Person into an object
<juju2143> now to do the inverse you could write this:
<juju2143> Person p = (Person)o
<juju2143> (you need to cast it)
<pedro3005> so you'd be transforming o into a person object?
<juju2143> yep
<pedro3005> but that's weird
<juju2143> this is encapsulation.
<pedro3005> what is o?
<pedro3005> can you transform anything into a person object?
<juju2143> o is an object containing a Person
<juju2143> so:
<juju2143> Person a = new Person("Male");
<juju2143> object o = a;
<juju2143> Person p = (Person)o
<juju2143> ;
<juju2143> like you could do this:
<juju2143> double a_double = (double)an_integer;
<juju2143> where an_integer is an int variable
<juju2143> this is casting (and not castration)
<juju2143> oh yeah, for the thing with methods of the same name
<juju2143> it doesn't work well with constructors
<juju2143> so you have to do this:
<juju2143> public Person(string arg) : this()
<juju2143> {
<juju2143> }
<juju2143> in fact it works without this() (i think)
<juju2143> but there you can reuse the constructor without arguments in the constructor with arguments
<juju2143> so this won't work:
<juju2143> public Person(string args)
<juju2143> {
<juju2143> Person(); // or this();
<juju2143> }
<juju2143> it would give an error.
<juju2143> So I think that's it for today for inheritence and that thing I forgot the name
<juju2143> for today
<juju2143> homework: mess with these things
<sirmacik> are there going to be next lessons?
<juju2143> i don't know, I think so
<juju2143> come back tomorrow, we'll see. Maybe we'll do graphics.
<sirmacik> oh, that'd be great (;
<juju2143> yep :P
<sirmacik> see You then, good night
<sirmacik> (it's 23:14 here)
<juju2143> good night.
<juju2143> :P
<pedro3005> alright juju2143, thanks for the lesson
<juju2143> your welcome.
<ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<pleia2> adding next one to the calendar
<ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-06-29
<ljsoftnet> is there a video to watch when ubuntu user's day comes?
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Current Session: Introduction to C#: Session 5 - Instructor: juju2143 || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<juju2143> right
<juju2143> everyone's there?
<sirmacik> I'm here, but unfortunately with a lot of work to do for tomorrow :/
<juju2143> sirmacik, you can do it, the course finished
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<sirmacik> :/
<sirmacik> juju2143: thank You for all these lessons
<juju2143> your welcome, if you have questions just ask me here.
<juju2143> or maybe you can suggest a topic and i'll talk of that in a course.
<juju2143> (a topic retated to C# of course.)
<juju2143> *related
<juju2143> So that was my intro to OOP in C#.
<sirmacik> (;
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-07-01
<qwebirc37762> hello
<deckoy> hello people
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-07-02
<awanti1> hi
<DaVinci> hello!
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-07-03
<kadaj> how do I register my nickname?
<pedro3005> /ns help
<kadaj> REGISTER kadaj357 kdjtar-subs@yahoo.com
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-06-30
<Zaragon> hi all...looking for info on wireless adapters...first ubuntu box, first problem...so what channel or internet place does one go?  My brand new adapter has no linux drivers available
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-07-02
<wangerin1> Is anyne aware of a install/setup-guide for ClassBot ? We're trying t
<wangerin1> Is anyne aware of a install/setup-guide for ClassBot ? We're trying to setup a local system here in DK
<nigelb> wangerin1: yes, its on launchpad.  Please feel to talk to nhandler in #ubuntu-classroom-backstage
<nigelb> wangerin1: He'll be able to help you set it up :)
<wangerin1> nigelb: I've found it, but can't get i loaded in irssi. I'll se if nhandler can help ;-)
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-07-03
<vulong_ubuntu_lu> some body help me!
<vulong_ubuntu_lu> a have problem with my sound cart
<vulong_ubuntu_lu> sound card
<vulong_ubuntu_lu> i have try every method that i see BUT
<shotty> Hi all, can anyone please explain how this channel works? Just found the link on Ubuntu wiki
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-06-25
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu App Developer Showdown - Current Session: Building Unity integration into your app - Instructors: mhall119
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/25/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
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<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/25/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<aquarius> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/app-developer-cookbook/ubuntu-one/adding-ubuntu-one-files-support-to-your-app/
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<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/25/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<jderose> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jderose/+junk/gst-examples/view/head:/video-player-0.10
<jderose> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Novacut/GStreamer1.0
<jderose> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Novacut/GStreamer1.0
<jderose> sudo apt-get install gstreamer0.10-tools
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<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/25/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
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<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/25/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<mhall119> Go to http://developer.ubuntu.com/showdown/Â­workshops/classroom/ to watch the video and askï»¿ questions at the same time
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#ubuntu-classroom 2012-06-26
<aneas> i need help with quickly
<pleia2> aneas: there aren't any classes going on now, but you can try asking in #ubuntu-app-devel
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu App Developer Showdown - Current Session: Storing configuration information - Instructors: jono
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/26/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
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<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/26/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
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<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/26/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
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<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/06/26/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
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<Daviey> I really feel i learned something there.
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-06-27
<Hamdon> Hi, would anyone know the easiest way to create a file chooser dialog when a button is clicked using glade and gtk?
<pleia2> Hamdon: there aren't any sessions going on right now, I think you want #ubuntu-app-devel
<Hamdon> Ok thank you
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-06-28
<sparrow2> please anybody help me out with installation of pygame in ubuntu precise I have been trying for so long...:(
<sparrow2> my software centre is giving error dependency is not satisfiable-libportmidi0 ...I am new to ubuntu pls help
<ykilla> please anybody help me out with installation of pygame in ubuntu precise I have been trying for so long...:( my software centre is giving error dependency is not satisfiable-libportmidi0 ...I am new to ubuntu pls help
<Pendulum> ykilla: this isn't a support channel. For support you want #ubuntu
<ykilla> ok thanks for telling..
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-06-30
<Guest6993> im having problems getting void 11 to work
<ggg4444> can someone help me with my void 11 problem?
#ubuntu-classroom 2013-06-24
<varg1> Ø§ÙØ±ÙØ² Ú©ÙØ§Ø³ ÚÙ Ø³Ø§Ø¹ØªÛ Ø´Ø±ÙØ¹ ÙÛâØ´ÙØ
<smartboyhw> Guys, our QA Classroom sessions starts 1 hour later. Make sure you join us through #ubuntu-classroom and #ubuntu-classroom-chat!
<smartboyhw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
<smartboyhw> 17 minutes till the first classroom session begins!
<jlking3> Hi Phill
<smartboyhw> Yeah!
 * smartboyhw does anticipate for his own session a week later.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Introduction to QA / Testing: Overview of testing tools and areas - Instructors: balloons
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<balloons> Hello and welcome to the ubuntu quality team session. My name is Nicholas Skaggs and I'm the QA Community Coordinator. Thanks for attending (or reading this log later!)!
<balloons> This is the first of many being held over the next few weeks serving as a introduction to the ubuntu quality community team
<balloons> in this sessions I'll be giving a brief overview of what we do as a team and some of the ways to be involved.
<balloons> This will be a high-level introduction with plenty of time for questions. So let's get started
<balloons> You may ask questions at any point.. Just be sure to utilize the #ubuntu-classroom-chat channel. Prefix your question with QUESTION: to ensure I see it.
<balloons> So first I'm going to give a brief overview of what QA is and how the team works, then I'll dive into the activities we do during the cycle. Along the way, we'll talk about the tools we use as well. Finally, we'll talk about how you can get involved and then do a Q & A.
<balloons> So to start off, letâs take a look at the wiki page for the team
<balloons> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam. On the page you can see some of the teams goals and purpose. Simply put, we help ensure everyone's work in ubuntu is presented in the best possible way
<balloons> From designing good process, to testing, to making sure things 'just work', we want the culmination of work that results in the ubuntu image to be the best it can be
<balloons> The ubuntu community site also has a page worth checking out on quality; re-iterating these goals and some team background
<balloons> http://community.ubuntu.com/contribute/quality/
<balloons> So who are we and where do we hang out?
<balloons> We're people from all over the physical world, and from many different aspects of ubuntu
<balloons> I held a blog series recently snapshotting of few of the people who are on the team: http://www.theorangenotebook.com/search/label/peoplebehindquality
<balloons> So where do we hang out? As you can imagine many different places. A quick list of where to find us:
<balloons> right here on IRC, #ubuntu-quality
<balloons> on our mailing list:     https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality
<balloons> in the forums;     http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=427
<balloons> on askubuntu;     http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/quality
<balloons> and even on social sites like facebook; https://www.facebook.com/groups/UbuntuQA/
<balloons> twitter; https://twitter.com/ubuntutesting
<balloons> and google+; https://plus.google.com/b/108452779163647535106/108452779163647535106/
<ClassBot> christoffer asked: So this is not about how I can utilize launchpad (and other tools) for my own app development, is it more general about Ubuntu development?
<balloons> christoffer, this is intended to server as an introduction to the quality team. you can see the full schedule we have planned here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom
<balloons> I'm not sure if there is a specific session that meets your needs or not. Most of the sessions come from a quality perspective not development.
<balloons> Sorry that link should be: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
<balloons> Ok, So, what do we do exactly as a team?
<balloons> During the course of the cycle, we as a team participate by providing test results for the packages as they are undergoing development. If we find a bug, we'll also report and file it.
<balloons> In addition, we develop testcases, best practices and even tools to help us test more effectively
<balloons> We test different types of things and utilize some terms to describe them
<balloons> The frst is cadence testing, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cadence.
<balloons> Cadence testing is simply the term we use to describe that we test at regular intervals.
<balloons> In practice, this amounts to us testing every ~2 weeks during the cycle -- we test images, packages and and hardware.
<balloons> The second is smoke testing, or dogfooding as some would call it, the development version of ubuntu. This means simply installing or upgrading to the development release and using it as a regular machine. By attempting to work and perform tasks under the development version you may encounter a bug. Your unique usage of the development version of ubuntu represents a testcase in of itself and helps us achieve broad general coverage across a
<balloons> variety of hardware and workflows
<balloons> The third is a call for testing. This is a call to test a specific piece of software, with an accompanying set of tests and instructions for testing.
<balloons> This call could happen at anytime throughout the cycle, and is utilized by developers to help ensure the software they are landing in the development version is ready for general consumption.
<balloons> This type of testing is generally for a new package landig in the development version of ubuntu
<balloons> So collecting the results and running these different types of tests requires us to have a tool to help
<balloons> The tool we use is called the QATracker
<balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/QATracker
<balloons> The tracker is where we submit the test results and get information needed to complete the test, such as the testcase and installation instructions.
<balloons> There are actually several qatracker instances each geared towards testing different things
<balloons> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com is used to report results for image testing
<balloons> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com is used to report results for package testing
<balloons> http://laptop.qa.ubuntu.com is used for laptop/hardware testing
<balloons> Each one has a specific focus and keeps track of results and testcases in the specific domain we're testing
<balloons> The wiki page I linked above gives more specific details on how the qatracker works and it's usage
<ClassBot> smartboyhw asked: Why should people join Quality when there are other aspects of contributing to consider? (I know the answer, but not all people here do:))
<balloons> Joining the quality is a great way to get started with contributing to ubuntu.
<balloons> you get to work with many different teams inside ubuntu and therefore get a taste of all the different areas. Quality is never the same from cycle to cycle; there's always new things to test and new ways to do it
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<balloons> In addition, it covers a wide variety of skills. From very technical to writing to creativity
<balloons> We'll talk more about the opportunities in a moment
<hmdshr> ÙÛØ´Ú©Û Ø§ÛÙØ¬Ø§ ÙØ§Ø±Ø³Û Ø­Ø±Ù ÙÙÛØ²ÙÙ Ø
<balloons> Are a technical person? Do you like to code?
<balloons> or perhaps your just wanting to learn a little python?
<balloons> You could consider writing some automated testcases using autopilot and contributing them to the ubuntu-autopilot-tests project
<balloons> you could also work on some of the tools we use, such as testdrive; https://launchpad.net/testdrive
<balloons> Perhaps you enjoy writing, or are skilled with explaining things step by step
<balloons> we need your skills in our ubuntu-manual-tests project writing manual testcases!
<balloons> Maybe you just like breaking things, or running bleeding edge software -- contributing test results is right up your alley!
<balloons> Even if your not running ubuntu, but a flavor instead, we still need and welcome contributions in all of the above areas. We share many things like testcases and tools across the ubuntu family
<balloons> smartboyhw, I hope that helps to answer your question :-)
<ClassBot> smartboyhw asked: I accidentally stumbled upon http://desktop.qa.ubuntu.com/ . What's that for?
<balloons> Well as you can see at one time that was used for testing the desktop -- specifically new unity features. Nowadays we simply utilize packages.qa.ubuntu.com for those sorts of tests
<balloons> Ask any questions if you have them :-) Let me share with you the next steps for joining the team and being more involved
<balloons> The steps for joining the team are quite simple. It's an open membership. You simply need a ubuntu SSO account
<balloons> https://login.launchpad.net/+new_account, if you don't have one
<balloons> That will allow you to contribute results to the tracker. In addition you should join our launchpad team and mailing list.. And then leave us a message and say hello! We're happy to help you get started and guide you through an area you'd like to help in
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<balloons> You can consider contributing testcases, test results, or even some new artwork for our pages (we always need those with an eye for creativity ;-) )
<balloons> Here's the links to our launchpad team and mailing list
<balloons> LP team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testing
<balloons> mailing list:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality
<ClassBot> jlking3_ asked: The process, when I look at it, seems overwhelming and intimidating. I'm afraid that I'll report something wrong or in the wrong place or in the wrong way. I don't want to make things worse for the developers.
<balloons> jlking3, yikes! we're here to help you feel more comfortable about the process. You don't have to jump into the technical deep end of kernel debugging or some other exotic testing right away (or ever :-) ). Our tests are intended to be run by folks like yourself. We work together to share knowledge and help each other test and file bugs. You don't have to be an expert to participate
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Introduction to QA / Testing: Using md5 checksum and Zsync - Instructors: phillw
<balloons> I don't know everything (surprise!). However collectively as a team we are able to help each other out and solve most problems
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<phillw> Hi everyone, my name is Phill. Whiteside and I'm the QA Team leader for lubuntu
<phillw> This short session is to introduce zsync and md5sum
<phillw> Firstly, why use zsync?
<phillw> each iso image is quite large and as they usually get updated each 24 hours, that's a lot of data!
<phillw> zsync only downloads the parts of the ISO that have changed, it is faster AND uses less bandwidth
<phillw> Why use md5sum?
<phillw> it is quite possible for a corruption to occur when downloading the ISO, if this happens your ISO will either not install, or exhibit very odd behaviour
<phillw> the other nice thing about zsync is that when it has downloaded the update, it automatically checks the MD5 checksum for you (one less step to carry out).
<phillw> You will see the zsync links if you go to the iso tracker and select the 'cd' icon to the  left of the ISO you want to download at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/270/builds
<phillw> in my example, the alternate install for lubuntu in 1386 architecture would be zsync http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily/20130623/saucy-alternate-i386.iso.zsync
<phillw> zsync can also be scripted up to do various tasks automatically. Further details on that can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy/Zsync
<ClassBot> jlking3_ asked: so you always add .zsync to the end of the URL to get the zsync'd version of the iso?
<phillw> jlking3: the tracker has several ways to down load an ISO (direct, rsync etc.) the filename ends .zsync to make it obvious that it is the zsync version
<phillw> if you wish to manually check an  ISO, move to the directory with the ISO in it and issue the command
<phillw> md5sum *iso
<phillw> this will give you the md5sum of the ISO's in the directory, which you can then check against what is on the iso-tracker, in my example, that would be http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily/20130623/MD5SUMS
<phillw> Using zsync elliminates this step, as it does it for you.
<phillw> That's the end of this introduction, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask (Preface them QUESTION: )
<ClassBot> Vasudevan asked: Which is a faster way to update daily isos over a slow home dsl connection - apt-get dist-upgrade or download zsync version? Thanks.
<phillw> Vasudevan: if you are UPDATING a running install,. use apt-get update && apt-get upgrade. The dist-upgrade is to go from, say, 12.10 to 13.04. Zysnc will refresh (or create) and ISO already on your system. They have different uses depending on the circumstances.
<ClassBot> jlking3_ asked: So you manually compare the MD5 checksums?
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<phillw> Vasudevan: if you use zsync to update an ISO, it will automatically do the md5sum check for you.
<phillw> sorry that was for jlking3 :)
<phillw> QUESTION : Thnaks, in terms of download which is faster - apt-get upgrade or zsync - over dsl conn?
<phillw> Vasudevan: I've never compared them, so cannot answer that, sorry.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<phillw> apt-get update & upgrade for use on an already installed system, zsync is to get the ISO to install a system.
<phillw> Thanks everyone for attending and for the questions. Happy testing :D
<phillw> The next session start at 21:00 UTC / GMT, and it's me up 1st :)
<phillw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy/
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || No Sessions Currently in Progress
<varg1> Ú©Ø³Û Ø§ÛÙØ¬Ø§ ÙØ³Øª Ú©Ù ÙØ§Ø±Ø³Û Ø¨ÙØ¯ Ø¨Ø§Ø´Ù Ù Ø¬ÙØ§Ø¨ ÙÙ Ø±Ù Ø¨Ø¯ÙØ
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: An introduction to bug reporting - Instructors: phillw
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<phillw> Hi everyone, my name is Phill. Whiteside and I'm the QA Team leader for lubuntu
<phillw> This session is to briefly outline two systems of bug reporting with the development releases
<phillw> Firstly, why report a bug?
<phillw> For the testers, Often we are using the latest, unmodified alpha code for various projects during the development release
<phillw> do NOT assume someone else will report a bug!
<phillw> Another important thing to remember is that Discussing a bug on IRC, email, forum or facebook areas etc. does not raise a bug. The devs do not monitor those areas
<phillw> By all means use them to discuss a problem. Once your discussion about the bug is at a stage where you can report it, then for it to be actioned by the devs youÂ mustÂ raise a bug.
<phillw> When 12.04 came along, it had added in an extra system for automated reporting of crashes.
<phillw> It is still being enhanced.
<phillw> But, there were blog reports of 'Canonical spying on your system', this is untrue.
<phillw> The system that runs is called whoopsie and reports to launchpad and if you 'say yes' also to errors.ubuntu.com
<phillw> it keeps an eye on your /var/crash area and if it sees something arrive, it springs into action
<phillw> Apport actually writes the crash file to /var/crash and if the release being run is the development release of Ubuntu, the .crash files is submitted to Launchpad
<phillw> it also looks out for .crash files as well. (i.e. not generated by apport).
<phillw> Whoopise is an ongoing and active project. Fuller details all about it can be found atÂ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker
<phillw> For most of running test cases, we will still use apport (ubuntu-bug)
<phillw> going onto launchpad and manually creating a bug often results in a bug report that can not be actioned owing to a lack of information.
<phillw> the best way to prevent this is to use the ubuntu-bug command.
<phillw> For bugs that happen at install time, it can be a bit difficult to work out what to raise the bug against.
<phillw> To this end, for testing of ISO's a quick list can be found atÂ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview/Install_Bugs
<phillw> So, if the error occurred whilst trying to install an iso, you would issue the command ubuntu-bug ubiquity
<phillw> if you are testing an application, e.g. GClac and it failed, you would issue the command ubuntu-bug gcalc
<phillw> using ubuntu-bug ensures that as much information relevant to the bug is obtained and put onto the bug report.
<phillw> Again, there is a full explanation atÂ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
<phillw> If you are unsure on what package to allocate a bug against, please feel free to ask on #ubuntu-bugs and one of the people there will be more than happy to assist.
<phillw> incomplete bugs do take time up which could be better spent actually dealing with bugs.
<phillw> Brian will beÂ Â holdingÂ Â a session immediately after this introduction to explain this further.
<phillw> by the way, please do feel to ask Questions, but I will get as much covered as I can, which should leave ~ 10 mins at the end for a Q & A session
<phillw> Within the quality team, we have a brief section on the basics of bug reporting as it affects quality. This can be found atÂ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview#Bugs
<phillw> That's the basics covered, last time I ran this, there were a couple of questions - which I will now cover.
<phillw> My bug goes to Private, what does it mean?
<phillw> Usually, when a bug is marked "Private" there's some good reason for it.Â Â With a lot of segfault (crash) bugs I see, a lot of them get marked as private, either because they contain information that *could* be private or could identify your system, or similar reasons
<phillw> Typically, I see this with bugs which have core dumps or tracebacks which could contain information to identify someone: passwords, account numbers, etc. fall in the category of information that needs to be "removed" from the bug before it goes to a public view.
<phillw> Those private bugs are therefore exactly what they are: hidden from the public eye until someone's gotten to it and actually looked through to see if there's anything that needs removal on those bugs, and then we usually make the bug visible after such things.
<phillw> Also, The bot that goes looking for duplicated bugs does not worry if the bug it is using as master is private. If this happens please go to #ubuntu-bugs and raise it with them
<phillw> What about reporting kernel bugs, could it be a duplicate?
<phillw> For kernel bugs, *always* report a new one. It is difficult to say, a priori, if your affected system is *identical* with another in an already reported bug
<phillw> There is a 3rd type of bug, in the test cases... This is to report an error in the test case (Typo, things out of order in the sequence etc).
<phillw> on each test case, for example,Â http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1301/info
<phillw> it is not for reporting bugs found by using the test case, but only in the test case itself (these are written by humans, and we do make mistakes, even with over sight and proof reading :) )
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<phillw> That sums up all I have to say, Brian will be following. Please feel free to ask questions
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<phillw> Well, thanks for attending. I hope it was of use to you.... I'm never sure if no questions means I've covered it all - or scared everyone away :)
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Filing and following up a good bug report - Instructors: bdmurray
<bdmurray> Hi, I'm Brian Murray an ubuntu developer and leader of the Ubuntu Bug Squad.
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<bdmurray> I'd like to elaborate a bit more on what philw waid regarding reporting bugs.
<bdmurray> ubuntu-bug is useful for reporting bugs about specific packages via the command 'ubuntu-bug' and the name of the package
<bdmurray> However, sometimes you don't always know the name of the package.  Like what is the name of the package for the "Software Updater".
<bdmurray> In that case you can use "ubuntu-bug -w" and then a dialog will appear indicating that you should click on the window for the problem application
<bdmurray> apport will then gather information about your system and the application to add to a new bug report
<bdmurray> Its also possible to use apport with symptoms for example if you are having an issue with an USB disk drive.  You can use 'ubuntu-bug storage'.
<bdmurray> This will run through a series of tests to determine which package is the problem and then open a bug report about that package.
<bdmurray> Additional symptoms live in /usr/share/apport/symptoms/ and include issues as vague as audio and display.
<bdmurray> As you can see ubuntu-bug is a great help when reporting bugs, but is also a great help for us developers as detailed information about your system and specific information for the package is gathered.
<bdmurray> However, having said that there is still one critical bit of information missing!  Detailed steps to recreate the bug report.
<bdmurray> When I say detailed steps I really mean a list like
<bdmurray> 1) click on the file menu
<bdmurray> 2) choose print
<bdmurray> 3) click on this other thing
<bdmurray> 4) watch it explode!
<bdmurray> This makes it easy for us to follow the same steps with little confusion
<bdmurray> Additionally, an important part of the bug life cycle is having a bug confirmed
<bdmurray> this also allows another Ubuntu user to come along and see your bug and follow the same steps you did and if they get the same result, confirm the bug report
<bdmurray> It also helps for us to know how often the problem occurs.  Was it one in every ten attempts to scan something?
<bdmurray> Or did it happen every single time?
<bdmurray> I believe philw already mentioned this but is ususally best to open new bug reports rather than possibly adding additional issues to an existing bug report.
<bdmurray> Having said that if you do find a bug that you think is about the same issue please mention it in the bug you are filing, either in the description or as an additional comment.
<bdmurray> It is also important to know that every issue you may experience should be a separate bug report.  We don't want to hear about your printer and your DVD drvie in the same issue as they are unlikely to be related or be fixed with the same change.
<ClassBot> balloons asked: does that mean I can use ubuntu-bug and say something like ubuntu-bug display or ubuntu-bug graphics if I'm having graphical issues, and ubuntu-bug audio for audio issues, etc?
<bdmurray> balloons: yes, you can use 'ubuntu-bug display' to help you file a bug about graphic issues and the same is true for audio issues.
<bdmurray> It's pretty neat, feel free to give a try, just don't send the bug to Launchpad!
<bdmurray> (There will be a final confirmation dialog where you can review the details of the bug report.)
<bdmurray> Let's say we've filed bug 1192332 and want to see what other bugs there are reported about update-manager
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1192332
<bdmurray> You can find them by clicking on update-manager (Ubuntu) in the "Affects" table
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<bdmurray> Or by click on the word Bugs next to Code and Blueprints
<bdmurray> Then you could review those new bug reports about the package and see if you can confirm them.
<bdmurray> A bug can be confirmed when you can recreate the same issue.
<bdmurray> You can confirm a bug by clicking the pencil next to "This bug affects you"
<bdmurray> or by clicking the pencil next to the bugs status in the "Affects" table
<bdmurray> You can learn more about confirming a bug here
<bdmurray> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl-cQDAlPFc
<bdmurray> Also keep in mind that bug reports can frequently be dialogs between developers and testers.
<bdmurray> As such watch for additional requests for information or testing and reply promptly.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<bdmurray> Another part in the bug life cycle process is verifying that fixes actually work and as someone experiencing the issue you are in a good position to do that.  As I understand it that will be covered in the next section.
<ClassBot> balloons asked: is there a recommended way to filter bugs against a package that one might be interested in? for example, I see 1700 bugs for update-manager at the moment.
<bdmurray> I'd generally use the search box.  For example I was looking for configuration file prompts so I typed in 'conf file' in the dialog and clicked search and found some good results.
<bdmurray> One can also filter on bug tags by clicking on advanced search
<bdmurray> generally bugs are tagged with the release code name (e.g. saucy) so you could search for bugs affecting saucy
<bdmurray> well really reported from saucy
<bdmurray> any other questions?
<bdmurray> I'm available in #ubuntu-bugs most of the time
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Verifying SRU updates - Instructors: chilicuil
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<chilicuil> my name is Javier Lopez http://wiki.ubuntu.com/~chilicuil
<chilicuil> this session will be practical so prepare your lp id and terminal =)
<chilicuil> I made some slides, you can fetch them from: http://people.ubuntu.com/~chilicuil/pdf/sru-updates.pdf
<chilicuil> if you have any question at any point feel free to ask in the #ubuntu-classroom-chat channel and I'll be glad to answer them
<chilicuil> so, to begin
<chilicuil> a SRU is a proposed update which has already been accepted in the ubuntu dev version and now is trying to make its way to a stable release (precise, quantal or raring)
<chilicuil> not every update is candidate for SRU, to become a SRU an update needs to:
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Verifying SRU updates - Instructors: chilicuil - Slides: http://is.gd/GFWXJ1
<chilicuil>   * fix a severe regression
<ClassBot> Slides for Verifying SRU updates: http://people.ubuntu.com/~chilicuil/pdf/sru-updates.pdf
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<chilicuil>   * fix a program which loss user data
<chilicuil>   * be simple and safe
<chilicuil> this page summarize all the details: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<chilicuil> so why stable ubuntu versions have a different policy?
<chilicuil>  *stability*
<chilicuil> in the past even one liner fixes have brought important issues, bugs #81125, #309674 and #559822 are some examples
<chilicuil> so we're trying to ensure updates archived in -updates don't break everything =)
<chilicuil> unfortunately, this policy has an issue
<chilicuil> if no one actually test that a proposed update is good enough to get copied to stable releases, it could stay at -proposed starving for ever =(
<chilicuil> a complete list of current -proposed updates can be found here: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<chilicuil> if you open the link, you'll see that there are updates for all stable releases, lucid, precise, quantal and raring
<chilicuil> and once saucy get released, proposed updates will be visible there before any other place
<chilicuil> blue and green updates are optimal to test
<chilicuil> I'd like that we test a couple of them right now
<chilicuil> you won't need many things, and it's relative easy to do
<chilicuil> you'll require:
<chilicuil> * any stable ubuntu release, I'll asume raring for this example
<chilicuil>  * a lp account
<chilicuil>  * optionally, pbuilder, virtualbox or a spare machine
<chilicuil> there are chances that a proposed update could be really wrong and burn your machine, but tipically that's not the case
<chilicuil> personally, I use pbuilder for testing cli applications and virtualbox for apps with a graphical interface
<chilicuil> however, right now, I'll test directly on my main machine, since I've picked a safe update to test =P, and because I don't want to overcomplicate the example, learning pbuilder and virtualbox require a session for themselves
<chilicuil> if you don't have a lp account you can create one in a couple of minutes: https://launchpad.net/+login
<chilicuil> I'll wait here for those who don't have one =)
<chilicuil> ok, I'll assume you've created a lp account, let's review some of the pending updates: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<chilicuil> as you can see, there are plenty of opportunities to help
<chilicuil> for now I'd like that we could focus on software-properties, specifically bug #1047424
<chilicuil> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1047424
<chilicuil> this report was opened to fix a problem with the additional drivers dialog
<chilicuil> reports related to a sru are exceptional good, so it's generally easy to follow instructions
<chilicuil> if they're not clear enough you can put a comment in the report and add the tag: 'verification-failed'
<chilicuil> the 'test case' section is specially helpful so try to not overlook it
<chilicuil> when a sru is requested, and it's accepted, members of the sru team, add the 'verification-needed' tag, our work as part of the QA team is to change those tags for 'verification-done' | 'verification-failed' depending of the result of our tests
<chilicuil> before going further, I recommend to upgrade the system
<chilicuil> $ sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
<chilicuil> even if you use pbuilder or virtualbox, is generally a good idea to make sure we have the latest updates before testing any SRU
<chilicuil> I'll give a couple of minutes for those who want to follow the live SRU testing session and need to update their machines
<chilicuil> in the meantime, I'll talk more about the SRU reports
<chilicuil> when you open a SRU report, you'll usually see these sections: [Impact], [Test case], [Regression potential], [Original description]
<chilicuil> the Impact section refers to the main problem, why this SRU should be introduced to stable releases
<chilicuil> the [Test case] sections usually have instructions step by step to reproduce the bug, it's a mandatory section, so you can be feel safe to find clear instructions
<chilicuil> the [Regresssion potential] section list some issues who could appear after adding this update, the less the better
<chilicuil> finally the [original section], well, it has the original post for reference
<chilicuil> now, I'll asume we had enought time to update our systems, so we can look at the report #1047424 and see how if we can reproduce the bug
<chilicuil> so the bug refers to a incorrect dialog after installing any driver using the software properties application
<chilicuil> we'll launch the application by typing 'drivers' at the dash and selecting 'Software & Updates'
<chilicuil> after opening it, we can click the latest tab 'Additional Drivers' and install or remove a driver, let's do it
<chilicuil> you don't need to worry, we won't reboot our systems, so if you don't have a driver to install, remove one, we'll reinstall it before leaving the session
<chilicuil> after selecting one driver we can press 'Apply changes', this will triage the installation|uninstalling process
<chilicuil> after doing it, you'll see a 'Restart ...' button
<chilicuil> a dialog asking for confirmation will appear, and it'll only have 'cancel' and 'shutdown' as options, that's the bug!
<chilicuil> instead of asking for shutting down the system, it should ask for rebooting
<chilicuil> so, we've confirmed the issue
<chilicuil> so, once we've seen the bug, we'll apply the -proposed update
<chilicuil> detailed instructions are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed
<chilicuil> the fastest to do it IMO is to modify /etc/apt/sources.list
<chilicuil> so, if you don't feel like reading the wiki right now, you can trust me and run:
<chilicuil> $ echo 'deb http://mx.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ raring-proposed main restricted multiverse universe' | sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/proposed.list
<chilicuil> that command will create a file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/proposed.list with the following 'deb http://mx.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ raring-proposed main restricted multiverse universe'
<chilicuil> apt uses those files to know from where to pull software
<chilicuil> after adding the proposed repository the system needs to update the index and apply the updates
<chilicuil> $ sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install software-properties-gtk
<chilicuil> those commands will download the new index and after that will update the software-properties-gtk program, sudo apt-get install can install or update (if the package is already installed)
<chilicuil> after completing the last step, it's time to retry the dialog
<chilicuil> close the 'Software & Updates'
<chilicuil> program
<chilicuil> and then open it again, go the driver tab and renable the uninstalled driver
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<chilicuil> one hint to know that you applied correctly the update is that after executing sudo apt-get install software-properties-gtk you should see your computer downloading a package from -proposed
<chilicuil> if you don't see it, something went wrong, and you should review your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/proposed.list file
<chilicuil> so, once you've applied the proposed update, you need to follow the test case steps and ensure the issue has gone
<chilicuil> if you are following this example, you should see that after applying the driver installation and selecting the 'Restart...' button you'll see this time a dialog with two buttons, 'cancel' and 'reboot'
<chilicuil> the -proposed update works!
<chilicuil> that's it, that's exactly what SRU testing is about
<chilicuil> so, once we've tested and confirm that the proposed update fixes the reported issue, we can add comments, those who completed the sru testing, please do so
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<chilicuil> something like, 'the proposed update work in Ubuntu raring amd64' should be enough
<chilicuil> and don't forget to add the appropiate tag, in this case, 'verification-done'
<chilicuil> after completing all these steps a member of the SRU team will review the report and probably will copy the -proposed update to -update, after that, a lot of people will improve its Ubuntu experience
<chilicuil> if have any problem while doing SRU testing feel free to ping me, or to join #ubuntu-quality
<chilicuil> if you*
<chilicuil> I think that's all, any question?
<chilicuil> thanks Skini151, you rock!
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || No Sessions Currently in Progress
#ubuntu-classroom 2013-06-26
<lordievader> Goede middag.
#ubuntu-classroom 2013-06-28
<jmarsden> Hello, my name is Jonathan and I am an Lubuntu developer and a long-time Linux system and network admin.
<jmarsden> This session is	about Using VirtualBox for Testing.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Using Virtual Box (VBox) - Instructors: jmarsden
<jmarsden> Hello, my name is Jonathan and I am an Lubuntu developer and a long-time Linux system and network admin.
<jmarsden> This session is	about Using VirtualBox for Testing.
<jmarsden> I have put my notes and	some screenshots on a wiki page	at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy/Virtualbox
<jmarsden> I suggest viewing that page during the class if	you are	able to	do so.
<jmarsden> Virtualbox is free software that allows the creation and use of one or more virtual computers "inside" a real physical machine.
<jmarsden> What that means for testers is a way to test installation or other actions that might be destructive if done on their main PC.
<jmarsden> So it saves us from having to have several machines just in order to test installing Ubuntu.
<jmarsden> I hope by the end of the session you will: Understand enough to install and use VirtualBox for Ubuntu ISO testing
<jmarsden> Be able to create, configure and use VirtualBox virtual machines
<jmarsden> And be aware of the limitations of this kind of testing.
<jmarsden> Hopefully that is clear, and those wanting to follow along have already installed virtualbox on their own machines.
<jmarsden> If not, on Quantal or Raring a quick    sudo apt-get install virtualbox -y
<jmarsden> should be all you need to get that job done.
<jmarsden> On earlier releases you probably want to download a .deb file fron virtualbox.org and install it manually.
<jmarsden> https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads is the page, and sudo dpkg -i virtualbox-4.2_4.2.12-84980~Ubuntu~lucid_amd64.deb
<jmarsden> (or similar) is the command to install it.
<jmarsden> OK, any questions about what virtualbox is or how to get it installed?
<jmarsden> Good!  Let's look at how to create a virtual machine suitable for testing the installation of Ubuntu from a downloaded ISO image.
<jmarsden> You can run Virtualbox from the menus or with the command    virtualbox &   in a shell.
<jmarsden> Then click New to create a new VM (I will say VM when I mean Virtual Machine).
<jmarsden> You need to give the VM a name and select Linux and Ubuntu for the OS type and version.
<jmarsden> You then need to choose a memory size.  For Ubuntu 1024MB (1GB) is common.  512MB will work fine for Lubuntu or server installations, etc. and is the default size.
<jmarsden> In general you do not want to use more than about 50% of the memory of your local PC for VMs that run at the same time.  Your host OS needs *some* RAM to work in.
<jmarsden> But VMs only consume RAM when they are running, so you can create many VMs that use a lot of RAM, as long as you do not plan to run them all at once.
<jmarsden> Generally speaking you will want to create a new virtual hard drive for each VM you create, and that is the default action on the next screen.
<jmarsden> There are several different "hard drive file type"s to choose from.  The default is VDI which is fine for our purposes, so use that.
<jmarsden> The next screen asks you to choose between a dynamic and fixed size virtual hard drive file.
<jmarsden> Performance is somewhat faster with a fixed size file, but that uses up all the space it can be even if most of it is empty.  Using dynamic sizing means you only use the disk space on the real PC that you actually need.
<jmarsden> And dynamic is the default, so in general just keep life simple and use that.
<jmarsden> Next you need to tell Virtualbox how big this new virtual hard disk will be -- it's maximum size.
<jmarsden> The default is 8GB and that works well for Lubuntu testing at least.  6GB is often sufficient if you want to keep things small.
<jmarsden> At this point, you have a virtual machine which you could start up.  But a few changes to the configuration will help...
<jmarsden> The first item is to tell the VM which ISO you want it to use to install from, so click on Storage and then on the "Empty" CD/DVD drive item.
<jmarsden> Then clicking on the CD icon on the far right lets you open an ISO file (which you downloaded earlier) to select it as the "virtual CD" (or DVD) to boot this virtual machine from.
<jmarsden> If all is well you will see the name of that ISO file appear in the "Storage Tree" section of the screen once you have selected the ISO to use.
<jmarsden> This is, in a sense, putting a "virtual" CD in the "virtual" CD/DVD drive of the VM.  No burning step is needed, which is convenient and saves time as well as the cost of CD-R blanks.
<jmarsden> Next we can configure networking to use what VirtualBox calls "Bridged" networking.  This is more flexible than the default of "NAT".
<jmarsden> Bridged networking makes the virtual machine appear on the network it is bridged to (usually your local LAN).
<jmarsden> So in that sense it is just like other machines on that network, it can see your local DHCP server, router, etc. and other machines can see it, and use services it runs.
<jmarsden> One more optional thing we can do, while here in the Network screen, is to change the NIC type.
<jmarsden> The default works fine, but since we are running Linux in the VM *and* Linux as a host OS, we can get better performance if we click the triangle next to "Advanced"
<jmarsden> and then select "virtio" as the adapter type.
<jmarsden> Then click OK to complete work in the Network dialog, and your changes to the NIC type and network type should be visible in the main Virtualbox GUI screen.
<jmarsden> There are plenty of other things you can configure about your VM, but none are needed for ISO testing... we do not need multiple hard drives, or multiple screens, etc.
<jmarsden> OK, any questions about configuring a VM and getting it ready to install a test version of Ubuntu ?
<jmarsden> Good!  So now we have a VM all ready to run... how do we start it?
<jmarsden> The easy way is to double-click on its entry in the list of VMs on the left, or select it and click the Start button , the green right-pointing arrow icon.
<jmarsden> If you want to you can start it using a command in the shell:  VBoxHeadless --startvm name-of-vm &
<jmarsden> where "name-of-vm" is the name you gave to your VM when configuring it.
<jmarsden> Actually you can do all this configuration work from the command line if you want, but that is only useful if you need to script it to configure many VMs in bulk, and we won't cover doing that in this session!
<jmarsden> When you click that Start button, or otherwise start up the VM, it will go through a boot process just like a real PC does, it even has a BIOS and you can configure whether to look at the floppy, CD, or hard disk first!
<jmarsden> In our case it will boot from the ISO we selected for its virtual CD, and that should begin the process of installing your chosen flavour of Ubuntu.
<jmarsden> If you are doing real ISO testing, follow the test case instructions carefully at this point... that is the subject of a different classroom session.
<jmarsden> After the installation process is complete, you will want to reboot the machine.  You will also want to remove the (virtual) CD so it boots from the hard drive the next time.
<jmarsden> While the VM is running you can do that by clicking Devices -> CD/DVD Devices... -> Remove disk from virtual drive.
<jmarsden> Or, once the VM is stopped you can configure the drive to be empty (takes too long for my taste!), or run a command    VboxManage modifyvm name-of-vm --dvd none
<jmarsden> Now if you start the VM it should boot from its virtual hard disk into Lubuntu, or whatever flavor you are testing.
<jmarsden> If that works and you are doing application or network testing, it can be really helpful to shut the VM back down and then take a "snapshot" of it.
<jmarsden> That means you can later quickly reset the state of the VM, including its hard disk, back to the state it was in at the time of the snapshot -- in this case, a freshly installed machine.
<jmarsden> So, how can we shut down a VM?
<jmarsden> The clean way is to use whatever buttons or commands exist inside the VM itself to shut it down.  For example, in a shell run the command    sudo shutdown -h now
<jmarsden> But sometimes (recently for Lubuntu daily-live images!) doing that fails.  Just as in the real world we have some choices.
<jmarsden> On a real PC we might push the reset button or even remove the AC power cord.
<jmarsden> The equivalent in the Virtualbox GUI is to click Machine -> Close -> Power Off
<jmarsden> You can do that from a command line if you prefer:    VboxManage controlvm lubuntu1310 poweroff
<jmarsden> (if the machine name is lubuntu1310)
<jmarsden> If the Virtualbox GUI does not work, or for whatever reason you just really really need to kill the VM, you can kill all of your currently running VMs with one command:
<jmarsden> killall VirtualBox
<jmarsden> The capitalization of VirtualBox matters in that command -- and please only do that if the other approaches fail to work.
<jmarsden> Ok, any questions about the basic use of VirtualBox VMs -- starting them, stopping them, ejecting virtual CDs from them?
<jmarsden> OK, moving on then... Virtualbox has a lot of other capabilities that are good to know about but not always necessary for ISO testing.
<jmarsden> One of them is Guest Additions.  Ihe idea is that if you run some additional software in the VM, it can be smarter about communicating with the host PC it is running on in useful ways, including cut and paste working between applications on the VM and applications on the host.
<jmarsden> It also allows resizing of the VM screens to any resolution you can fit on your real screen -- handy for real world use, but not all that important for ISO test use.
<jmarsden> Guest Additions also allow setting up shared file space on the host machine that is visible in the VM as well.
<jmarsden> This is handy for developers who build a new application on their host and then want to install it on the guest, or the other way around.
<jmarsden> In ISO testing you do occasionally want to move a log file or a config file from the guest out to the host, ready to create a LaunchPad bug or something.
<jmarsden> For that, just using scp works well enough that in general it is not worth setting up Guest Additions and file sharing, at least in my view.
<jmarsden> You can configure VMs to be accessible using Remote Desktop.  This is the screen, keyboard and mouse "remote control" protocol that Microsoft Windows uses by default, and the rdesktop client uses in Linux.
<jmarsden> Again that is rarely useful for our testing purposes, unless you set up test VMs at home and then go somewhere else and run tests on them :)
<jmarsden> One thing Virtualbox does not offer by default is access to USB devices.  You can add a closed source "Extension pack" to get this capability, if you need it.
<jmarsden> However you still cannot boot from USB devices, so its use for ISO testing is somewhat limited, and in general I recommend NOT installing the Extension Pack.
<jmarsden> Any questions about these various additional capabilities that Virtualbox has?
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<jmarsden> OK, let's briefly look at some limitations of using Virtualbox for testing.
<jmarsden> Not using real hardware (no BIOS bugs, weird video cards, etc.)
<jmarsden> Some people might say this is a benefit!  But it does mean some classes of bugs will not show up in a VM that will happen on some real machines.
<jmarsden> No wireless NIC access (virtual NICs are "wired" NICs)
<jmarsden> There may be workarounds for this but in general it is not easy to do wireless network testing in Virtualbox VMs.
<jmarsden> No boot from USB (so testing Live USB stick "persistence" is not possible, please use a physical PC to test that)
<jmarsden> There are test cases that need "perstistent" filesystem tests and booting from USB... Virtualbox cannot be used for those tests.
<jmarsden> And lastly, it is not easy to test or use special purpose hardware (Braille readers, USB devices, scanners, SCSI controllers, etc.) in VMs
<jmarsden> For further detailed info, see http://www.virtualbox.org or the man pages for vboxmanage and vboxheadless , and the full Virtualbox user manual which is at https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/UserManual.html
<jmarsden> And we have five minutes left... any questions?
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<jmarsden> None :)  Either everyone is asleep or I answered the questions already :)
<jmarsden> Ok, thanks for being here and learning about Virtualbox.
<jmarsden> The URL for the wiki page with most of what I spoek about here is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy/Virtualbox
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || No Sessions Currently in Progress
<ahmadubuntu> hi every body
<ahmadubuntu> how I can see channel logs?
<smartboyhw> !irclogs | ahmadubuntu
<ubot2`> ahmadubuntu: Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too.
<ahmadubuntu> thanks
<ahmadubuntu> !irclogs
<ubot2`> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too.
<balloons> Hello and welcome to the Introducing Test Cases session . My name is Nicholas Skaggs and I'm the QA Community Coordinator. Thanks for attending (or reading this log later!)!
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Introducing Test Cases - Instructors: balloons
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/28/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<balloons> I hope everyone is ready for some QA classroom sessions! I'll repeat my intro again for the log ;-)
<balloons> Hello and welcome to the Introducing Test Cases session . My name is Nicholas Skaggs and I'm the QA Community Coordinator. Thanks for attending (or reading this log later!)!
<balloons> In this session we're going to provide a brief overview of the different testcase types you'll encounter, talk a little about where the team stores and manages it's testcases, and then let you know how you can learn more about contributing testcases and results.
<balloons> Feel free to ask questions at any time by prefixing your question with QUESTION: in the chat
<balloons> The sessions following this will cover using different tools to help you test manual testcases.
<balloons> Next week there is a section of classroom sessions on creating new manual and automated testcases. If your curious about contributing in this area, please feel free to ask questions and check out the resources given.
<balloons> Also mark the date and time to attend those sessions.
<balloons> The full classroom list is found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
<balloons> And with that, let's get started
<balloons> So, let's start off by talking about what a testcases is.
<balloons> According to the ISTQB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Software_Testing_Qualifications_Board) a
<balloons> TestCase is:
<balloons> A set of input values, execution preconditions, expected results and execution postconditions, developed for a particular objective or test condition, such as to exercise a particular program path or to verify compliance with a specific requirement. [After IEEE 610]
<balloons> Definitions are fun eh? So what does it really mean?
<balloons> Simply put a testcase is a set of specific actions and specific results. By performing the listed action, you should expect the listed result.
<balloons> This allows for the test to be completely repeatable and reproducible across many machines and testers without ambiguity
<balloons> So how is this useful to us?
<balloons> By having a list of testcases we can ensure the software works EXACTLY the same, and as EXPECTED for ANYONE.
<balloons> If I follow the testcase and get the proper result, and so does 5 other testers, we have assurance that the software will function properly on each of these representative machines.
<balloons> However we also have what are called smoke tests. These tests don't meet the listed criteria above for a testcase.
<balloons> Instead, they are a list of open exploratory questions intended for the testers to intercept and potentially find issues.
<balloons> A smoke test is not repeatable or reproducible and therefore has much more limited use. In general we greatly prefer well written testcases with the Action/Expected Result format.
<balloons> So we understand what a testcase is, and how it is useful to us. So, what does a testcase look like?
<balloons> A typical testcase found on the testing tracker intended for manual testing will follow one of two formats mentioned above.
<balloons> You can see the formats listed on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/TestCaseFormat
<balloons> For some real-life examples, let's look at the packages and iso trackers for an example of each testcase.
<balloons> Here's a default testcase on the iso tracker: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1301/info
<balloons> And here's an example of a smoke test: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1336/info
<balloons> See how the smoke test (barring a couple Action/Expected results at the top :-) ) is a list of questions which are open ended? This allows for a broad range, but very shallow testing.
<balloons> The default test showcases a list of Actions/Expected results that tests very specific functionality.
<balloons> In general we prefer these style of testcases as noted above.
<balloons> So how do you use it? If your contributing results to a qatracker and you have a default testcase you now have the knowledge to understand how to read it.
<balloons> Perform the action in bold, and then wait for the expected result listed in italics. If you don't get the expected result for ANY step you've found a bug and something is wrong.
<balloons> This is general overview of what testcases look like, how they work, and the thought process behind them. The next sessions will cover performing testing using the testcases found on the various trackers.
<balloons> next week we'll also cover writing testcases. Both manual tests, as we've covered and seen above, as well as automated tests
<balloons> Are there any questions?
<balloons> If not we'll wrap this one up early then. Enjoy the next sessions!
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Using Virtual Manager(KVM) - Instructors: phillw
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/28/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<phillw> Hi, my name is Phill. Whiteside and I'm the Team Leader for lubuntu-quality. This session is a brief over-view of the installation and use of KVM, using the graphical interface (GUI) virtual manager.
<phillw> Firstly, can you please ensure that you have carried out the steps of getting and ISO and installing virtual-manager as detailed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy/Section3
<phillw> So, what is KVM?
<phillw> It is a virtualisation system that allows you to install and run a different (or same) operating system from within your existing system.
<phillw> If any one has questions while I go through this session, please feel free to ask on the #ubuntu-classroom-chat channel, prefix your question QUESTION: so that I notice it!
<phillw> KVM is exrtremely powerful, something which can put new comers off. I speak from experience!
<phillw> However, we're going to use virtual-manager which takes care of the 'behind the scenes' stuff
<phillw> Assuming you have virtual manager installed and have added yourself to the group libvirtd then Virtual Machine Manager should appear in your menu area (On my system it is under "System Tools")
<phillw> launching it for the 1st time will bring up a window with no entries in it.
<phillw> Towards the top left corner is a little icon that looks like a computer with a small sun shining on it. Clicking on this creates a new Virtual Machine
<phillw> Sorry for the pause, I was doing some other work on it and had managed to disconnect myself!
<phillw> We now have a window called 'New VM', into this enter the name you want it called (I'm using lubuntu AMD64, so I'll call mine lubuntu-64)
<phillw> We are using a local ISO, so we just need to click 'Next'.
<phillw> (Forward)
<phillw> Next, it is asking where the ISO is stored. That depends on where you saved it / them. I use ~/Desktop/iso/ to hold mine
<phillw> So I browse to /home/phillw/Desktop/isos/saucy-alternate-amd64.iso
<phillw> The OS Type is Linux from that drop down box
<phillw> and it should default to ubuntu12.10 which is quite close enough for us
<phillw> Click 'Forward'
<phillw> I use 512MB of RAM and 1 processor for testing, obviously if you have plenty of RAM or you intend to do smoke testing of applications you can use the default of 1024 MB
<phillw> next up is the Create a disk image. Again I use 10 GB for this, so as to have room to do the side-by-side installs that are mentioned in the test cases, but you can use 5GB if space is low on your hard drive
<phillw> sorry for the pauses here, my local virt-manager has decided not to play and I've had to ssh into my dedi server!
<ClassBot> Vasudevan asked: how to improve the video perf of the kvm guest - my settings are : model - vga,  RAM - 9 MB. Tried increasing ram - does not seem to help - screen refresh is sluggish
<phillw> kvm guests are getting opengl acceleration sometime this year (fingers crossed) (thanks balloons)
<phillw> Vasudevan: one of the other things to check is if your CPU supports hardware acceleration, you can check that out at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM/Installation#Check_that_your_CPU_supports_hardware_virtualization
<phillw> again, sorry for the pauses
<phillw> Having selected the disk size you want, click 'forward'
<phillw> It will give you a summary of what it is about to do.
<phillw> one *VERY* important thing here is to click on the 'Customise installation before install'.
<phillw> this is because of bug 1080674
<phillw> which means the default video setting does not work
<phillw> I'll include the full link... https://bugs.launchpad.net/cairo/+bug/1080674
<phillw> So, put a tick in that box and then click 'Finish'.
<phillw> a new window opens, click on video on the left hand panel.
<phillw> and change it from 'default' to vmvga
<phillw> Click 'Apply', then click on 'Begin Installation' (Near the Top left of the window)
<phillw> A new window will appear, once it connects it behaves just like a normal installation.
<phillw> Now then, in best tradtions... I prepared one earlier on my local machine.
<phillw> After the installation is completed and it has rebooted, you will have the usual grub2 login screen.
<phillw> one note of grub... it will say that it can only find one operating system in yor VM - this is correct. the virtual machine is enclosed in its own little 'sandbox' and cannot affect your host machine.
<phillw> when you shut down the virtual machine (usually via the *ubuntu shut down method) you can close the window and also then close the virtual machine window.
<phillw> The next time you want to fire up the machine, launch virtual machine manager, click on the machine you want to use and then click the 'play' icon. Once it is starting up, click on Open and a new window will appear showing the machine boot up.
<phillw> If you want to really delve into how much you can do with KVM then there is an extensive wiki area at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM/ which goes into full details of different ways to use KVM. These are beyond this course (I even use virt-manager on my dedicated server) with a couple of virsh commands to fine tune a couple of things as the VM's on there are 'production' machines.
<phillw> So, does anyone have any questions?
<ClassBot> Vasudevan asked: Did not use guestfish before; guestfish is installed, but the next cmd fails - sudo libguestfs-test-tool -> command not found?
<phillw> Vasudevan: I'm covering guest fish in the next session
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Using Guestfish with KVM - Instructors: phillw
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/28/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<phillw>  Hi, my name is Phill. Whiteside and I'm the Team Leader for lubuntu-quality. This session is a brief over-view of the installation and use of guest-fish
<phillw> what is guest-fish?
<phillw> It is a set of commands that allow to manipulate KVM's
<phillw> The one that I will specifically be covering is that of the copy-out command.
<phillw> http://libguestfs.org/guestfs-recipes.1.html#export-any-directory-from-a-vm
<phillw> has the general syntax, but I'll give an example
<phillw> if your virtual machine 'died' during an install and will not restart, you need to get the log files from it.
<phillw> to use guestfish tools the machine needs to not be running (in this case it is obviously not!!)
<phillw> on your host machine, do a
<phillw> cd
<phillw> to get to your home directory
<phillw> assuming your virtual machine is called
<phillw> myvirtualmachine
<phillw> we issue the command
<phillw> virt-copy-out -d myvirtualmachine /var .
<phillw> this will take the entire contents of /var and pop them into ~/home/var
<phillw> using this command you can pull in crash reports etc. or even the entire machine using
<phillw> virt-copy-out -d myvirtualmachine / .
<phillw> virt-copy-out has a sister command virt-copy-in, which I've used on a poorly VM to insert a patch onto it when it could not 'see' the network and I couldn't use apt-get :)
<phillw> If you'd like to look at the other things you can do with guest fish, head over to http://libguestfs.org/guestfs-recipes.1.html
<phillw> Again, a lot of this is outside the scope of this quick introduction which was meant simply as a way to pull files from a 'dead' KVM so that a bug could still be raised.
<phillw> if you have any questions, please feel free to ask (Remember to prefix them with QUESTION:  )
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<phillw> if you have questions on any of the subjects covered in these classrooms, please feel free to ask on #ubuntu-quality or contact the tutor directly.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Using pbuilder - Instructors: chilicuil - Slides: http://is.gd/EW5Uv9
<ClassBot> Slides for Using pbuilder: http://people.ubuntu.com/~chilicuil/pdf/pbuilder.pdf
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/28/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<chilicuil> Hi, I'm Javier Lopez an Ubuntu contributor: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/~chilicuil
<chilicuil> on this session I'll talk a little bit about pbuilder
<chilicuil> pbuilder is a tool many people in Debian & Ubuntu use to compile .deb packages, however it can also be used to test software, or to try things in a sandbox
<chilicuil> I made some slides that you can fetch from: http://people.ubuntu.com/~chilicuil/pdf/pbuilder.pdf
<chilicuil> if you have any question at any point feel free to ask in the #ubuntu-classroom-chat channel and I'll be happy to answer
<chilicuil> so, to begin
<chilicuil> technically, pbuilder is a cli driven wrapper in bash for chroot, debootstrap, dpkg-source and other similar tools
<chilicuil> it helps to create minimal Ubuntu setups (using debootstrap) which then are saved and compressed in /var/cache/pbuilder
<chilicuil> after the initial setup, pbuilder can uncompress and mount any of these images in a chroot environment
<chilicuil> chroot is an old tool which was introduced for the first time in the 70s on Unix systems
<chilicuil> it allows to change the root directory to one specified, this creates the ilussion that you are in other system from where you can launch apps that cannot access files from outside the chroot on normal conditions
<chilicuil> this minimal setups are easy to create and use with pbuilder
<chilicuil> I forgot to tell you, that this session will be practical, so fire up you terminal if you haven't done it =P
<chilicuil> to continue I'll ask you install:
<chilicuil>  $ sudo apt-get install pbuilder
<chilicuil> if you don't feel like installing anything, feel free to ssh ubuntu@vps.javier.io and use any of the 10 available spots, passwd=ubuntu
<chilicuil> pbuilder has already been installed there so you can avoid the last step
<chilicuil> I'll wait a couple of minutes so you can decide if you install it or use the vps env =)
<chilicuil> there are many alternatives to pbuilder, such as, pbuilder-dist, pbuild, sbuild, etc
<chilicuil> however in my opinion, pbuilder is one of the easiest to use and maintain once you've configured correctly
<chilicuil> in order to start using it, you'll need to configure a couple of vars in your ~/.bashrc and ~/.pbuilderrc files
<chilicuil> first, you need to identify yourself, you can do it if you add the following to the ~/.bashrc file
<chilicuil>  export DEBEMAIL="yourmail@domain.com"
<chilicuil>  export DEBFULLNAME="Your Name"
<chilicuil>  Ubuntu vars here: https://github.com/chilicuil/dotfiles/blob/master/.alias.linux#L51
<chilicuil> that how my personal conf looks, feel free to grab any var
<chilicuil> once you've updated your file, you need to create a ~/.pbuilderrc file
<chilicuil> the ~/.pbuilderrc is nothing but a pure bash script, it may seem scary at the first impression but don't let it to stopping you from trying it, I'll suggest you to try with the following file
<chilicuil>  $ wget https://raw.github.com/chilicuil/dotfiles/master/.pbuilderrc -O $HOME/.pbuilderrc
<chilicuil> now, if you open the file, you'll see a lot of vars, it because this file has been customized to allow pbuilder work with differente ubuntu and debian releases
<chilicuil> I wont explain every aspect of it but the most important parts
<chilicuil>  UBUNTU_SUITES=("saucy" "raring" "quantal" "precise")
<chilicuil> here are defined the releases pbuilder will be able to manage, whenever a new dev cycle start you can update this part to include the newest ubuntu dev release
<chilicuil>  UBUNTU_MIRROR="us.archive.ubuntu.com"
<chilicuil> from where pbuilder will download files
<chilicuil>  PATH_PBUILDER="/var/cache/pbuilder"
<chilicuil> where minimal ubuntu setups will be saved
<chilicuil>  HOOKDIR="$HOME/.pbuider-hooks/"
<chilicuil> where hooks will be saved, hooks are scripts (in any language) which are launched at different times, ie. before login into the chroot environment, before building packages, before deleting the environment, etc
<chilicuil> right now I suggest you to trust me and use this config, if you agree, you'll need ot place a '#' before  export BUILDRESULT=....
<chilicuil> this will allow pbuilder to save to /var/cache/pbuilder/result/, otherwise it will fail when trying to copy to the specified version, I'm running a modified pbuilder version
<chilicuil> let me know when if you do it, or if you have problems to edit the file, I'll wait a couple of minutes
<chilicuil> ok, now that we have it configured (hopefully correctly), we're gonna try to login
<chilicuil> run the following in a terminal:
<chilicuil>  $ sudo DIST=saucy ARCH=amd64 pbuilder login
<chilicuil> anyone was able to do it?
<chilicuil> if you try to do it, you'll find that it wont be possible, since you've not created the minimal image
<chilicuil> so, we need to create it first
<chilicuil>  $ sudo DIST=saucy ARCH=amd64 pbuilder create
<chilicuil> balloons> QUESTION:  sudo DIST=saucy ARCH=amd64 pbuilder create -- are you making a little chroot here?
<chilicuil> thanks for asking balloons, yep, a chroot is created and then very basic packages are installed, after that, the complete chroot is saved and compressed so pbuilder don't need to recreate it every time you use it
<chilicuil> and it end of the command you should have a file in /var/cache/pbuilder/saucy-amd64/saucy-amd64-base.tgz with the minimal setup
<chilicuil> Vasudevan> this also failed - E: debootstrap failed W: Aborting with an error
<chilicuil> E: No such script: /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/saucy
<chilicuil> nice catch Vasudevan, when working with very recent ubuntu releases sometimes the soft links in /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/ are not updated (on stable releases), so you need to create them manually
<chilicuil> you can do it by running: $ cd /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts && sudo ln -s gutsy saucy
<chilicuil> and then retrying the create step: $ sudo DIST=saucy ARCH=amd64 pbuilder create
<chilicuil> you should look now a verbose output with all the packages which are been installed in the minimal setup
<chilicuil> dependying on you bandwidth it should create a minimal setup in 5-20 minutes
<chilicuil> you can create as many minimal setups as you want, for example, ubuntu precise for i386 computers
<chilicuil>  $ sudo DIST=precise ARCH=i386 pbuilder create
<chilicuil> or ubuntu raring for amd64, $  sudo DIST=raring ARCH=amd64 pbuilder create
<chilicuil> Skini151> QUESTION: What package we can't test with pbuilder?
<chilicuil> great question Skini151, chroots have their limits, I've been personally able to run even unity on a chroot environment, however I'd say that it's perfect for testing apps which doesn't have too many dependencies, for example bad apps to test would be the scopes, or an apps which depends of a particular network setup, for example network-manager
<chilicuil> good examples are gedit, the calculator app, most cli apps, vim, netcat, coreutils...
<chilicuil> Skini151> QUESTION: Is there a list of packages that can be tested with pbuilder or vice versa
<chilicuil> Skini151: not that I know, however any app which can work on a chroot environment can be tested with pbuilder, since pbuilder is only a wrapper around chroot
<chilicuil> Skini151: I'll look at it and will give you back a list off-air
<chilicuil> alright, if you completed the last step, you should have now a minimal and pristine image of ubuntu saucy in /var/cache/pbuilder/saucy-amd64/saucy-amd64-base.tgz, let's continue
<chilicuil> to make sure our image works, we are going to compile a package
<chilicuil> in another terminal, please type:
<chilicuil>  $  mkdir hello && cd hello
<chilicuil> and then: $ pull-lp-source hello #probably you'll need to install ubuntu-dev-tools
<chilicuil> this will fetch the source code of the hello package, which is a program that print 'Hello World!', a very basic program
<chilicuil> Vasudevan> QUESTION: can we ignore this error - E: Logic failure in hook handling. Directory /var/cache/pbuilder/saucy-amd64/build//31858/tmp/hooks should exist but it does not.
<chilicuil>  Vasudevan: if you don't have, and it fails completely, you can create a directory in ~/.pbuilder-hooks or to comment out the hooks var in your ~/.pbuilderrc file
<chilicuil> it looks like this:
<chilicuil> HOOKDIR="$HOME/.pbuilder-hooks/"
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<chilicuil> if you downloaded the source code of the hello package, you can create the source deb file (.dsc) with the following command:
<chilicuil>  $ cd hello-* && debuild -S -us -uc && cd ..
<chilicuil> and then build the package with the following:  $ sudo DIST=saucy ARCH=amd64 pbuilder build hello*.dsc
<chilicuil> this step will take a couple of minutes, and the result will be available in: /var/cache/pbuilder/result/saucy-amd64
<chilicuil> if you see a .deb package there, we've done it right, and we can ensure we have a working minimal image available
<chilicuil> now that we know for sure that pbuilder works we can use it for whichever we want, one of these possibilities is for testing sru's
<chilicuil>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/PerformingSRUVerification
<chilicuil> try this:
<chilicuil>  $ sudo DIST=saucy ARCH=amd54 pbuilder login
<chilicuil> you've access to a pristine environment, cool, eh?
<chilicuil> there are some tips available from the <SLIDE 16>, and some other good resources at:
<chilicuil>  * tinyurl.com/pbuilder
<chilicuil>  * wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<chilicuil> and if you need help, feel free to join us at #ubuntu-quality, #ubuntu-motu or ping me directly
<chilicuil> I think that's all, any question?
<chilicuil> jsjgruber-l99-p> QUESTION: How do you use pbuilder to test unity?
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<chilicuil> jsjgruber-l99-p: I was actually thinking in chroot when answered that question, I suppose pbuilder can be modified to do it, however it can't be done by default, to run unity inside of chroot you'll to mount extra directories, most taken from the livecd and then start some other deamons, such as dbus, enable X connections to the outside X and launch finally unity
<chilicuil> thanks everyone for attending (or reading later)
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/28/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
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#ubuntu-classroom 2013-06-29
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Using Test Drive - Instructors: Noskcaj
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
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<nigelb> Sorry about that. The session is at 20:30 UTC.
<Noskcaj> what's the command to start the session?
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Using Test Drive - Instructors: Noskcaj
<Noskcaj> Hello everyone, I'm Noskcaj, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj
<Noskcaj> This is the session for Testdrive
<Noskcaj> You may ask questions at any point. Just be sure to utilize the #ubuntu-classroom-chat channel for that.
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<Noskcaj> Hello everyone, I'm Noskcaj, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj
<Noskcaj> This is the session for Testdrive
<Noskcaj> You may ask questions at any point. Just be sure to utilize the #ubuntu-classroom-chat channel for that.
<Noskcaj> Testdrive is one of the main tools for iso testing (and the easiest to use), and to a lesser extent, general desktop testing.
<Noskcaj> First I will cover what testdrive is and how to use it, then i will show how to get involved with making testdrive
<Noskcaj> Refer to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Testdrive for more detail
<Noskcaj> Part 1.
<Noskcaj> Testdrive is one of the main tools for testing daily and release isos, and to a lesser extent, packages. It has both a CLI (command line) and GUI (graphical) version. It is a manager for downloading/syncing ISOs(wget, zsync, rsync and md5) and running isos, both in Virtual machines(KVM, Virtualbox and (if you can make it work) Parallels) and on real hardware (USB-creator is part of testdrive, or you can manually burn the ISOs)
<Noskcaj> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Testdrive
<Noskcaj> The testdrive metapackage (what installs from âsudo apt-get install testdriveâ) contains (amoung other things):
<Noskcaj> testdrive-cli: the command line version of testdrive
<Noskcaj> testdrive-gtk: the gui version of testdrive, this is what i recommend and is very simple to use.
<Noskcaj> Virtualbox: a stub of the open-source version of virtualbox
<Noskcaj> Qemu: a stub of qemu/kvm
<Noskcaj> I highly recommend you install the full version of either KVM or Virtualbox after the session (both available in the ubuntu repository, or their own repos)
<Noskcaj> By doing so you can configure much more and manually recover logs. See the other sessions for more info on Virtual Machines
<Noskcaj> Testdrive will work with any version of virtualbox after 3.0
<Noskcaj> To start testing the new release, you simply need to sync any of the ISO's we want to test. Once the ISO's is synced, you can run it in a Virtual Machine or on real hardware
<Noskcaj> First, you select the ISO we want to test, to be able to synchronize it
<Noskcaj> Second, you click on the Sync button to start the synchronization
<Noskcaj> Once the sync process is complete, a new ISO will appear to be cached. If the time shown is Unix start time (January 1st, 1970), the sync was canceled partway through and needs running again
<Noskcaj> Click on Launch to run the ISO in a Virtual Machine or click on Create USB Disk to burn to a USB
<Noskcaj> If you want to use a cd or dvd, you will have to manually find the iso in the cache
<Noskcaj> Please note that new Ubuntu Development Release ISO's are updated daily, sometimes many time a day (Beta and RC), which means you will have to sync everyday the ISO you intend to launch, if you want to have the latest ISO
<Noskcaj> To save time, all info on the settings menu is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Testdrive#Settings
<Noskcaj> Remember to ask questions if you donât understand something
<Noskcaj> Part 2.
<Noskcaj> In the last 6 months, testdrive has become an active project again.
<Noskcaj> All code, bugs, translations and info to do with testdrive can be found at https://launchpad.net/testdrive
<Noskcaj> Translating Testdrive is rather simple. Join your countryâs ubuntu translation team, then go to https://translations.launchpad.net/testdrive and start translating. Most languages are incomplete
<Noskcaj> Nearly every bug in testdrive is found and triaged, but if you see an issue or a ânewâ bug, please confirm it and make sure itâs on https://bugs.launchpad.net/testdrive
<Noskcaj> Coding is the one area testdrive falls short. Both the original developers (at no fault of their own) donât have time and the only other people who do more than the occasional bugfix are smartboyhw (Who has put a lot of good work into getting kylin in, but is frequently busy) and myself (Iâve got time but donât know much python and i have no knowledge of gtk)
<Noskcaj> If youâve got the time and/or knowledge, please contribute. The main issues currently are the lack of kylin and ubuntuGNOME and the fact that parallels is broken
<Noskcaj> Thank you for your time. Does anyone have any questions?
<Noskcaj> QUESTION: Can you run through what to do when launching testdrive for the 1st time after installing it?
<Noskcaj> Testdrive works straight out of the box, although you may want to change the hypervisor and RAM and Disk usage, this can be done through the settings menu
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
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<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || No Sessions Currently in Progress
#ubuntu-classroom 2015-06-22
<dupingping> awesome notes editor: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ubuntusticky/files/ubuntu-sticky-trial_1.0.0-0ubuntu1_i386.deb/download
