#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-02
<dholbach> hai
<tseng> hi dholbach
<tseng> whats up
<dholbach> hey tseng
<dholbach> enjoying sydney and writing up stuff for the motu/community bofs
<tseng> ok
<tseng> you pinged me
<dholbach> today it's raining a bit, so i dont mind
<dholbach> yeah... wanted to know when you arrive
<tseng> sunday
<dholbach> sunday morning, right?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> 6:30 about
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> need to check when koke and ajmitch arrive
<ajmitch> dholbach: saturday afternoon
<ajmitch> just got the spending money in my account this morning ;)
<dholbach> woohoo, cool
<ajmitch> yeah, it means I can pay a friend back who I owe some money to :)
<tseng> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey tseng
<dholbach> how are you?
<tseng> good
<dholbach> see you later
<\sh> gentlemen
<\sh> morning ogra
<\sh> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/457
<koke> \sh: are you sure k3b needs cdrdao??
<koke> http://k3b.plainblack.com/requirements <-- it's optional
<koke> koke@ababol ~ $ LC_ALL=C apt-cache depends k3b | grep cdrdao
<koke>   Suggests: cdrdao
<\sh> koke: well, it asks you for it , when you start it directly
<\sh> koke: and for 0.3.10 it was required...strange
<\sh> behaviour
<koke> --> ogra (~ogra@CPE-60-225-18-37.nsw.bigpond.net.au) <-- you too already in .au??
<ogra> since monday, yes :)
<koke> linuxconf?
<ogra> koke, when will you arrive ?
<tseng> ograconf
<ogra> nah, like tseng said
<ogra> blueparrotconf
<ogra> http://www.blueparrot.com.au/
<koke> 24 @ 05:55
<ogra> ah, great, so you have a day to see sydney at least
<ajmitch> hi
<tseng> hi
<koke> hmmm, 05:55 is 21:55 @ BIO, and after 2 days flying, I guess I'll need to rest a bit :)
<tseng> koke: ill be there 6:30
<tseng> no no
<tseng> we are hitting the town
<tseng> you can sleep until i get there
<ajmitch> sounds like fun :)
<ajmitch> I don't know what I'll get up to when I get there
<tseng> ...going out
<ogra> koke, you shouldnt, else you will have a very weird sleep schedule.... one needs to stay awake the first day
<ajmitch> maybe on sunday afternoon
<tseng> you go out the 24th or bush.
<tseng> bust*.
<ajmitch> heh
<tseng> every other day is scheduled until 9
<tseng> and most things in .au seem to close at 4-5
<ajmitch> nah, it's not that bad
<ajmitch> I did spend a couple of months in .au last year
<ajmitch> so I don't care as much about the tourist stuff :)
<tseng> i would just feel bad going all that way and not seeing a few things
<tseng> the bridge, opera house, and the beach
<ajmitch> yeah, but I could go to sydney for the weekend if I wanted, it's close enough
<koke> ajmitch: but you are a lot closer :)
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> I might be living in australia next year
<koke> I don't know when I'll be able to be there again
<koke> and I've wanted to visit .au and .nz for a long tima
<koke> time
<ajmitch> .nz is nice :)
<ajmitch> koke: are you going to visit NZ after UDU?
<koke> someday I'll visit (I hope)
<koke> ajmitch: I don't think so :(
<koke> brb
<ajmitch> ah, that's a shame
<tseng> jeez i do not want to go to work today
* ajmitch wants to visit europe at some point
<tseng> tommorow i fly!
<ogra> ajmitch, i would (if you pay my flight rescheduling :-P)
<ogra> tseng, YEAH
<ajmitch> yeah, I've got work tomorrow as well
<tseng> :D
<tseng> see you there!
* tseng work.
<ajmitch> heh :)
<ajmitch> see you in sydney! ;)
* ajmitch considers going off to sleep
<ajmitch> ok, good night
<ajmitch> will talk to you all tomorrow
<mfilizzi> I have a new package that I would like to get approved for Universe.  per Jonathan Riddell it's posted on the MOTUNewPackages page.  He suggested I hit some people up over here to review it for me.
<Burgundavia> not many here, add it to the page, and it will get reviewed in time
<mfilizzi> thanks
<herve> heya!
<bddebian> Hello her
<bddebian> herve even...
<\sh> yo herve
<herve> yo :-)
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> k3b is bad
<\sh> it asked for cdrdao..but has only a suggested package dep
<\sh> but it's user annoying when this app asks you for a tool which is not installed
<herve> not even recommended?
<herve> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=263887
<\sh> sure..only recommended
<herve> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=296228
<Amaranth> sorry, was testing something
<herve> Amaranth, you're free to leave and come back -:)
<\sh> well
<\sh> well
<\sh> and again well
<\sh> it's all bullshit what debian and the sourcemonkeys of k3b are doing
<\sh> first of all...if an application is bugging me: this and that application is not installed, so I don't have to complete functionality, I, as a user, will going to install it.
<\sh> but if the application is saying: well, i can run without it, and I can burn cds without it, so what...
<\sh> it's annoying , both ways
<herve> "I can run without it, though I'm pretty much useless... pretty interface still, isn't it?"
<Amaranth> lmao, you mean k3b and cdrdao?
<\sh> yepp
<\sh> the error message at the beginning gives the picture: without cdrdao I can't burn cds
<\sh> well..is vcdimager working together with cdrecord?
<\sh> because of the bue/bin file ?
<\sh> cue/bin file ;)
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net
<\sh> ok
<\sh> u can use cdrtools to burn cue/bin projects..so cdrdao is not needed anymore...
<\sh> I could patch this out of the k3b source ,)
<\sh> and remove cdrdao from control as a recommended package
* Amaranth hopes libburn someday replaces all these command line tools
<\sh> hehe...
<\sh> k3b is really stupid
<\sh> File -> New -> VCD Project ==> You need vcdimager
<\sh> but, cdrdao is used for burning *lol*
<herve> well, you can still generate iso files, can't you?
<\sh> but vcdimager makes cue/bin files
<herve> yes but it's not k3b :-)
<\sh> k3b uses vcdimager
<herve> is vcdimager a GUI?
<\sh> no...
<\sh> commandline
<\sh> it converts mpg files to vcd compatible structure
<\sh> and it's not working at all :)
<\sh> doing the conversion by hand, it's ok
<\sh> with k3b it breaks :) finally with the actual vcdimager version of ubuntu ;)
<herve> that's the point
<herve> vcdimager is too geeky :-)
<herve> and k3b a nice front-end
<herve> ...
<herve> to packages it is not depending on... :-)
<\sh> hmmm..transcode is geeky
<\sh> vcdimager is easy
<\sh> vcdimager -t svcd -c test.cue -b test.bin blade.mpg ;)
<herve> seriously speaking, it's still a command line tool
<\sh> herve: it doesn't matter, if there is a gui, why not, but it should work with the gui :) if the gui is calling the cli...it depends on it
<herve> that's my point too
<\sh> well...it's vcdxgen fault
<\sh> shermann@shermann-laptop:/media/hda1/Videos$ vcdxgen --filename-encoding=iso-8859-1 blade.mpg
<\sh> **ERROR: charset conversion failed
<\sh> --filename-encoding=STRING            use given charset encoding for
<\sh>                                         filenames instead of UTF8
<\sh> and running vcdxgen --filename-encoding=utf8 blade.mpg ==> works
<herve> try with latin1
<\sh> jepp
<\sh> works
<\sh> and k3b doesn't use it this option and fails...
<\sh> cause vcdimager blade.mpg failes
<\sh> -e
<\sh> fixing it
<\sh> vcdimager has a bug
<\sh> it's fixed in 0.7.21
<\sh> are we syncing against testing or unstable?
<\sh> btw herve can u upload now?
<Burgundavia> unstable
<herve> \sh, no answer from mako nor elmo
<\sh> Burgundavia: thx
<\sh> ok...I'll wait with the fix
<\sh> 0.7.21 is in unstable
<Burgundavia> elmo is on vacation
<Burgundavia> until 23 from what I understand
<herve> usually free software folks have more time during their holidays
<herve> there it's the contrary, he retires from free software stuff :-)
<\sh> ok..what about bugfixes for hoary=?
<herve> if it's not a critical or security fix, don't care
<ajmitch> morning
<herve> hi ajmitch
<\sh> herve: functionality?
<herve> \sh, no new features, for sure
<\sh> herve: not new features..old features
<herve> you're fixing an old feature?
<\sh> herve: vcd burning is an old feature...but because of a bug in vcdimager is it not working
<ajmitch> I suppose I should start packing today :)
<herve> ajmitch, for the udu?N
<\sh> ajmitch: upload first ;)
<\sh> ogra told me you should upload before you leave ;)
<herve> \sh, the broken feature isn't harmful?
<\sh> herve: annoying :)
<herve> he told me too!
<\sh> it doesn't work
<ajmitch> \sh: upload what? ;)
<herve> \sh, I doubt it makes it to hoary them :-)
<herve> ajmitch, I don't have upload rights yet
<\sh> ajmich: http://www.ubuntulinux.com/wiki/StephanHermann <- buglist
<herve> s/them/then
<\sh> ajmitch: dsc and diff.gz are all on http://ubuntu.linux-server.org/<packagename>
<ajmitch> \sh: bugfixes or new packages?
<\sh> bugfixes
<\sh> new packages are on motunewpackages :)
* ajmitch is waiting vewy vewy patiently for his box :)
<ajmitch> \sh: submitted bugreport & patch to debian?
<\sh> ajmitch: for one package yes...the rest is .desktop bla
<ajmitch> .desktop files may still be appreciated by debian maintainers
<\sh> ajmitch: malone bugs ;) everything is there
<herve> ajmitch, I have one upload pending
<\sh> ajmitch: if they're ok..i will send them all to debian :)
<herve> maybe another but I get a silly bug
<ajmitch> ok, but I have to go to work about 10 minutes ago ;)
<herve> woops!
<herve> :-)
<\sh> ajmitch: go then :)
<ajmitch> I'll upload one, at least..
<ajmitch> lintian needs fixed
<\sh> ajmitch: I don't mind :)
<\sh> ajmitch: i can wait :)
<ajmitch> tagtool uploaded
<\sh> ah thx :)
<ajmitch> ethereal is too large to grab quickly ;)
<\sh> then forget about mysql-admin etc.
<ajmitch> ok, will talk from work
<\sh> ok cu :)
<\sh> where can I make proposals for QA?
<herve> ubuntu? no idea
<\sh> is there a ML for this? ubuntu-chiefs ? ,-)
<herve> sounder? :-)
<\sh> i found something on the wiki
<\sh> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuProcedures
<\sh> cheers guys, my first beer for today and my last ;)
<\sh> strike.
<\sh> tagtool compiled for all three archs
<ajmitch_> great
<\sh> thx ajmitch
<\sh> now I'm writing a proposal for a better QA
<\sh> and for a changing in bugfixes for stable releases
<\sh> oh well...my english
<\sh> for a different view of bugfixes in the stable release ;)
<\sh> better?
* ajmitch_ isn't sure :)
<\sh> denglish ;)
<\sh> mixture of german and english ;)
<herve> night all
<\sh> night herve..oh he's gone
<tseng> hi
<ajmitch_> hi tseng
<\sh> re tseng
<ajmitch_> how long until you leave?
<\sh> if you have time, please re-read this proposal and fix some mistakes (increase the version number please) and annotate the fixes with your name :) thx
<\sh> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ProposalForABetterQAForUbuntu
<tseng> i leave tommorow night
<tseng> 6pm EST iirc
<tseng> im not sure we have bad qa atm
<tseng> saying you want to improve qa as a blanket statement is a slippery slope
<ajmitch_> tseng: feel free to add stuff to the selinux bof page :)
<tseng> if you want to build a team of users to file bugs in some sort of organized fashion, be our guest
<tseng> ajmitch_: im mostly along for the ride on that one
<tseng> ajmitch_: i can install and configure selinux , not much more
* ajmitch_ added a couple of items for now, will do more after work
<ajmitch_> ah alright
<tseng> i use it on gentoo and fedora
<tseng> fedora "just works"
<\sh> tseng: well...QA is never good as it should be, this is not the point
<\sh> the qa is/was good for ubuntu..not the question...but we can do it better :)
<tseng> ok then, show me the manpower
<\sh> and we have to take care about the "after release show"
<\sh> tseng: this is something else.. we need to establish the structure first, then we will find manpower :)
<\sh> well...I know the QA of redhat...
<tseng> thats an oxymoron?
<tseng> (ever looked in an SRPM)
<\sh> ... <--- ;)
<\sh> the QA of redhat was shit
<tseng> yes.
<\sh> and the marketing was even more worse then the QA (in europe)
<\sh> but i don't want to blame anybody...
<\sh> tseng: but I have to say, the SRPMS of redhat are better then those of suse :(
<tseng> i found little reason to look at suse until after novel + ximian merger
<\sh> tseng: hehe :)
<\sh> tseng: this is also a nice story...buy a gnome company and then buy a kde focused distributor ==> evolution for kde ,-)
<tseng> i dont like kde
<tseng> but rather than risk trolling any harder, im going to get dinner or something
<\sh> ok, then kmail for gnome...;)
<\sh> i don't have anything against gnome/kde..i'm using :)
<\sh> the switch user function of kde is a nice one ;)
<Amaranth> FUSA is nice too
<\sh> fusa?
<Amaranth> Fast User Switch Applet
<\sh> this is for gnome, right
<Amaranth> I always just had a link on my panel for gdmflexiserver.
<Amaranth> Yeah
<\sh> but it's not enabled by default
<Amaranth> http://ignore-your.tv/fusa/
<Amaranth> This is new.
<\sh> nice :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-03
<\sh> ok...last cigarette and then sleeping time
<tritium> hi crimsun
<crimsun> hi tritium, how're things?
<tritium> crimsun, not bad, you?
<tritium> crimsun, do you by chance have python-scipy installed on your machine?
<tritium> I'm getting tons of segfaults and other errors doing even the simplest plotting.
<crimsun> tritium: no, I don't, I've seen a couple posts on u-u about it and will look
<tritium> I'll search for those...
<tritium> even walking through a simple exam from http://www.scipy.org/documentation/plottutorial.html fails
<tritium> example, that is
<crimsun> ok, I'll look at it later when I have access again to a Breezy machine
<crimsun> this machine running the livecd doesn't have very much RAM
<tritium> crimsun, thanks
<aisipos> Anyone here able to hear a bug report about installing kdelibs-data (which has had a security update)?
<aisipos> sudo apt-get install kdelibs-data
<aisipos> Results in (partly snipped):
<aisipos> Unpacking replacement kdelibs-data ...
<aisipos> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.4.0-0ubuntu3.1_all.deb (--unpack):
<aisipos>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/icons/default.kde', which is also in package knetworkconf
<\sh> aisipos: malone
<aisipos> ok
<\sh> much more interessting is this: http://spaces.msn.com/ compare everything with http://www.ubuntulinux.com/
<aisipos> The component to file against would be kdelibs, not kdelibs-data, correct?
<\sh> source: kdelibs binary: kdelibs-data
<\sh> but check first for an already existing bug pls :)
<aisipos> ok. :)
<aisipos> I'm not sure the "search" feature in Malone works properly...
<\sh> well list all the bugs from the ubuntu project...there are not much, and kdelibs update is new ;)
<aisipos> In fact I'm reasonably certain it doesn't work at all... :)
<aisipos> Didn't see anything about kdelibs, so I'll file a new one.
<aisipos> Ok, bug filed here: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/462
<aisipos> Is there any way I can force this to install in the meantime?
<\sh> --force-yes
<\sh> apt-et install --force-yes kdelibs-data
<aisipos> sh: that command gives me the same error as before. Do I need to use dpkg directly somehow to fix this?
<\sh> try it
<\sh> I'm leaving it right now...
<aisipos> I got it to install with:
<aisipos> sudo dpkg --force-overwrite -i /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.4.0-0ubuntu3.1_all.deb
<aisipos> I supposed I could have used --force-overwrite from apt-get, but I don't know.
<crimsun> no, you did it correctly
<aisipos> But at least the red update ! in my tray is gone. :)
<aisipos> Thanks for all the help.
<ajmitch> sigh, I hate losing things only a few hours before travelling :)
* ajmitch waves to ogra 
* ogra waves back...
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> how's it going over there?
<ogra> tired... we were swimming.... and i'm just not trained for such things....
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> still warm there?
<ogra> ajmitch, sure
<ajmitch> good
<ogra> and sunny like hell
<ajmitch> :)
* ajmitch will remember to pack a light shirt then
<ogra> ajmitch, i bet you wont see much of sydney anyway... and the temperature will depend on the aircondition of the hotel.... this conference is heavy packed (compared to the last one)
<ajmitch> yeah..
<ajmitch> ah well
<ajmitch> a little bit of insanity is good
<ogra> its a bit sad that not even one day is lanned for going out together.... last time mark put this in the schedule
<ajmitch> I guess they were just too squeezed for time, with only 1 week
<ogra> yeah... thats what i mean.... making it 10 days and having one relaxation day and one hack day in the schedule would have been nicer... but well
<ajmitch> are there any hack days at all?
<ajmitch> or is it all BOFs?
<ogra> all BOFs
<ogra> no hacking time planned....
<ajmitch> that's a shame
<ajmitch> people will be too tired to do much at night
<Treenaks> ogra: that needs to be fixed for the next ubuntu conf
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> who is responsible for bugfixing hoary right now?
* ajmitch wonders what will be arranged for lunch & dinner at UDU
<ogra> Treenaks, then convince mark... he made the new schedule.... nobody is happy with the parting of the BOFs in four pieces either
<\sh> malin == mutant thunafish
<\sh> ;)
<Treenaks> ogra: /next/ ubuntu conf... I'm not on udu
<ogra> \sh, only security fixes go in...
<ogra> Treenaks, i'm not sure if it will change for the next conf
<\sh> ogra: I know :) but this should be a thing to change...cause functionality breaks should also be fixed
<ogra> \sh, nope...
<ogra> \sh, they have to be worked around....
<ogra> \sh, only major dataloss or security fixes...
<\sh> ogra: k3b as an example...vcdimage 0.7.20 has a bug...that's the reason why you can't create or burn any vcds with k3b...bug is fixed in 0.7.21 (already in sid, synced to breezy in a couple of days)...so the only thing you can do, backport bugfix from 0.7.21 to 0.7.20 or add a patch to k3bs vcdimager call
<\sh> ogra: this should be covered as well...
<ogra> \sh, nope...
<ogra> ajmitch, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/UbuntuDownUnderSchedule
<ajmitch> yeah, I was reading it
<ogra> pretty packed
<ajmitch> I've got to check how many there are where I have to bilocate ;)
<ajmitch> are you leading the universe or other BOFs?
<\sh> ogra: give me a reason why not :)
<\sh> it doesn't add more functionality, nor breaks anything
<ogra> it drags away developer time
<ajmitch> \sh: because we don't control what goes into hoary now ;)
<ogra> it drags away ftp masters time
<ajmitch> and you'd have to get someone to review those changes, etc
<ogra> you cant guarantee it doesnt brak something else without wide testing... so it drags away testers time from breezy...
<ogra> etc
<\sh> ogra: so, we should establish a "post release test enviroment for security and repair-functionality updates"
<ajmitch> no matter how sure you are that it is fixed, you probably don't have access to other architectures to check that
<\sh> ajmitch: that's the reason why, there must be a qa for something like this..
<ogra> \sh, NO
<ogra> we have a policy ....
<ogra> its that simple...
<ogra> a release is not supposed to get updates....
<ogra> its only 6 months to the next one....
<ogra> its neither discussable nor arguable...
<ogra> it is how it is
<\sh> it has to be discussed...we're not talking about hundreds of "updates", we're talking about a couple of bugfixes..leaving the version, patching the break
<GheRivero> res
<ajmitch> hi
<ogra> \sh, no
<fwiffo> iffo
<fwiffo> sorry for the noise :)
<diamond> lo folks
<tritium> hello diamond
<diamond> tritium: hey. it's rather quiet around here compared to the hectic pre-release days ,-)
<tritium> no kidding!  But that's a good thing for me - I can really use the time to get caught up on my work.
* diamond flees
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net
<tritium> Sweet - I'm runnning the LiveCD on a dual G5 in the university's computer store :)
<herve> evening
<tritium> hi herve
<tritium> crimsun, ping
<herve> hi mike, how's life?
<tritium> herve: not bad, just busy.  You?
<herve> exhausted!
<herve> but happy :-)
<tritium> good :)
<tritium> okay, I'll be back
<\sh> herve!!
<herve> \sh!!
<herve> :-)
<\sh> ok..this was dinner
* herve discovering the wonders of the static keyword in C...
<crimsun> tritium: pong
<tritium> crimsun, sorrry about that ;)
<\sh> hmm...i will take a nap for 2 hours and then working
<tritium> crimsun, something came up.  Sorry I had to run...
<crimsun> np
<crimsun> Setting up libgtk2.0-0 (2.6.7-1ubuntu)
<crimsun> hmm...
<fabbione> that's ok :)
<tritium> crimsun, anyway, I was in the university store, running the LiveCD on a dual G5, and was going to ask if you had experience with sound on G5s
<crimsun> tritium: I don't personally, no, but I know there has been upstream activity (BenH's patches)
<crimsun> tritium: for instance, the mac mini is now supported
<crimsun> g5s should be supported just fine, but that will require cvs
<tritium> crimsun, ah, cool.  Thanks for the info.
<crimsun> (fixes were committed just 8 days ago)
<tritium> I knew you'd know the story ;)
<crimsun> for g5s, you're most interested in the tumbler portion
<crimsun> (http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/alsa/alsa-kernel/ppc/tumbler.c?rev=1.39&view=log  if you want to view)
<tritium> Thanks a bunch!
<crimsun> np
<crimsun> back later, more work
<tritium> take care
<GheRivero> res
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-04
<\sh> morgen ogra
<ogra> morning
* ogra yawns
* \sh too
<\sh> time to go to bed
<\sh> after a nice coding session between me and python/qt3
<\sh> and hacking python-apt_pkg
* \sh writes Pynapiqt
<herve> hi ogra !
<ogra> hey herve
<herve> how's Australia?
<whip|udu> hey ogra are you here?
<\sh> G'night all....have fun down under :)
<ogra_> herve, nice
<herve> \sh, night!
<ogra_> herve, but crappy network :)
<herve> I can see :-)
<dholbach> hey
<herve> hi Daniel!
<dholbach> hey herve
<dholbac1> re
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbac1] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | => http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaloneUniverseWishList <= | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
<herve> night all!
* Amaranth curses repeatedly
<Amaranth> no matter what i do, with more than one package, i never get a diff.gz
<thom> Amaranth: you're just ending up with a tar.gz and a .dsc?
<Amaranth> and a changes file
<thom> yeah, you've not got an orig.tar.gz, so you're building native packages rather than upstream ones
<crimsun> if you intentionally built it without an .orig.tar.gz in .., you'll create a debian-native package
<Amaranth> I have an orig.tar.gz
<Amaranth> dh_make made that
<thom> and what version number are you using?
<Amaranth> I run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot from ~/bittorrent-4.0.1/ and end up with bittorrent_4.0.1.orig.tar.gz, bittorrent_4.0.1ubuntu1_all.deb, bittorrent_4.0.1ubuntu1.dsc, bittorrent_4.0.1ubuntu1_i386.changes, and bittorrent_4.0.1ubuntu1.tar.gz in ~
<thom> you've got a native version number
<Amaranth> ?
<thom> you need 4.0.1-1
<thom> in your debian/changelog
<Amaranth> *groan*
<thom> the -1 being the debian version
<Amaranth> 4.0.1-1ubuntu1?
<thom> yeah
<crimsun> except I don't think debian has v4, so you'd have to make it 4.0.1-0ubuntu1
<Amaranth> dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source
<Amaranth> *headdesk*
<Amaranth> yay, finally
<Amaranth> now to watch lintian puke all over me
<Amaranth> or not
<fabbione> hey guys
<nmorse> aby members of the XFCE team in here?
<nmorse> any*
<nmorse> Nevermind, I see one now
<nmorse> Crimsun, are there any more themes for XFCE available at all?
<nmorse> The ones I used on Debian Unstable and on Gentoo just aren't there
<crimsun> nmorse: which one(s)?
<nmorse> Aguelemon, Agua, stuff like that
<nmorse> It occurs to me now in a moment of clarity they may be GTK themes from another WM
* nmorse feels like an idiot
<crimsun> hmm, afaik there're there
<crimsun> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=xfwm4-themes&version=hoary&arch=all
<crimsun> they're there, rather
<nmorse> why don't they show up in the Settings > User Interface > Themes menu?
<crimsun> they don't?
<crimsun> I'm not in front of my Xfce install
<nmorse> Just those preface by xfce- and those that came with GNOME
<crimsun> file a bug in malone for it, the package is xfwm4-themes
<crimsun> I'll look when I get home in a few hours
<nmorse> the files are all listed in /usr/share/themes though
<nmorse> I'll file the bug then
<crimsun> is this on a fresh install of Hoary?
<crimsun> or were you using os-works sources before?
<nmorse> Fresh install of Hoary
<nmorse> so file the bug in the Ubuntu Universe section?
<crimsun> yep
<crimsun> when I need more info (I will), I'll simply reply with the request
<crimsun> gotta get back to work now
<nmorse> crimsun, I think I figured out the problem
<nmorse> The menu only shows themes in the gtk-2.0 style with gtkrc files
<nmorse> the ones done with xfwm4 directories and themerc files don't show up
<colombus> bonjour
<colombus> hello world
<dholbach> hey
<siretart> hi folks
<\sh> moins dholbach
<ajmitch_> evening all
<\sh> hey ajmitch, now at udu? :)
<ajmitch_> in sydney
<ajmitch_> at a friend's place
<ajmitch_> will turn up at the hotel tomorrow :)
<\sh> :)
<herve> hi!
<\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/11-Pynaptiq-A-Kynaptic-Replacement.html
<\sh> played a bit more with pyqt and python-apt
<ogra> \sh, wow, show that to riddell next wwek
<herve> hey ogra!
<ogra> hey herve...
<\sh> ogra: :) it's far from complete :) only an hour of work..there is no documentation for python-apt so i had to hack it
<ogra> \sh, which version did you use ?
<\sh> ogra: the versions on hoary :)
<\sh> but i used a different eric3 version ;)
<\sh> the one in hoary doesn't work
<ogra> \sh, you cant install anything with this version
<ogra> \sh, the whole commit/update interface is still missing....says mvo
<\sh> ogra: what about 0.6.x?
<ogra> \sh, look at update managers source
<ogra> \sh, there is a unstable tree (arch) with the start of commit/update/progress interface
<\sh> well...
<\sh> this is chaos
<\sh> http://packages.debian.org/experimental/python/python-apt
<\sh> this is on experimental
<\sh> unstable is 0.5.4.x
<ogra> \sh, totally outdated.... mvo will give me the arch url next week, i'll post it to you then...
<\sh> txh
<\sh> thx
<ogra> \sh, or mail michael.vogt@ubuntu.com
<ogra> :)
<\sh> but i don#t think that those functions are outdated in the next version which I used right now ;)
<ogra> \sh, he likes the idea of someone working on it
<\sh> ogra: he is standing next to you? ;)
<ogra> \sh, lets do that lkater, its terrible late here and i only have some minutes left to talk to susus....
<\sh> sure :) have fun and a good night...have to go and wash my clothes in troisdorf
<susus> talk to me please ...
<susus> ;o))
<\sh> ;)
<\sh> hmm
<\sh> the universe packages, do they have all in the Section: universe/<group>?
<herve> this is overridden in the pool
<\sh> but from control file view, it should have it
<herve> I never heard about it
<\sh> well all universe packages have Section: universe/<package group> in the control
<\sh> anyway..
<herve> this is the effect of the override, isn't it?
<\sh> no
<\sh> oh yes
<\sh> sorry
<herve> :-)
<\sh> and how can I determin a "meta package"
<herve> there is an official list in debian
<\sh> so there's no flag or something
<herve> what do you want to do?
<\sh> I'm playing with python-apt ;)
<\sh> and I have to determine what are "normal" packages and "meta" packages, which are providing only deps and nothing else
<\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/11-Pynaptiq-A-Kynaptic-Replacement.html
<herve> ha ok
<herve> I don't know of a flag
<herve> but such packages only have files in /usr/share/doc/<package> ?
<herve> but quite hard to check on 10.000+ packages :-)
<\sh> no
<zul> oi its quiet
<herve> I may have found the cause of my locale issues with dia...
<\sh> what was it?
<herve> dia writing the PS file with some locale-aware printf function
<\sh> uh
<\sh> how can u get a workaround?
<herve> one of the authors have commited his fixes
<herve> I'm making dpatches of them
<\sh> good :)
<herve> I'm also fixing endianess issues
<herve> \sh, ping
<\sh> pong
<herve> you already had to cope with gcc 4 build issues, as I remember?
<\sh> a bit yes
<herve> when the .c declares a static function but the .h don't say it's static
<herve> how to know which one is right?
<\sh> well...do what the .h says
<herve> thanks
<herve> that's what another patch for tla did too
<herve> and the series of functions this one belongs too don't have any other "static"
<\sh> well...I don't know if i'm correct, but .h is the declaration, and this must be true ;)
<herve> my previous patch added it to the .h :-)
<\sh> :)
<\sh> hmm
<\sh> herve: do u know something about qt?
<herve> ask me about python but not qt :)
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> python+qt ;)
<\sh> this is one of my question
<\sh> or better python
<\sh> i have one function..
<\sh> it returns a global object instance
<\sh> now I have a subclass of this object, with a couple of more functions
<\sh> how can I make a type casting?
<\sh> lets say: QWidget to QBla
<\sh> QBla(QWidget) is wrong ;)
<herve> hmm...
<herve> let me experiment something
<herve> python 2.4?
<\sh> yepp
<herve> I guess you wouldn't know if it uses the new object model?
<\sh> well u know: c++: (QBla *)QWidget instance
<Amaranth> Why would you have to cast?
<Amaranth> If it supports the same API you should be fine.
<\sh> ok..QBla is a inherit QWidget, so it's compatible..but I have a function which is returning QWidget only but I need the adds of QBla
<Amaranth> o_O
<Amaranth> How did you get in that mess? :)
<\sh> well..qt
<Amaranth> Someone in #python-gilliam was asking a similar question for the DOM, no one had an answer.
<\sh> QWidget *QTabWidget.currentPage()
<\sh> returns a qwidget
<herve> \sh, that syntax isn't pythonic :-)
<\sh> herve: yeah, this is c++ ;)
<\sh> but i'm playing with pyqt ;)
<herve> I don't see a hack to do so
<herve> unless inheriting from your factory in turn and override that code :-)
<Amaranth> herve: Do you by any chance use twisted? :)
<herve> Amaranth, not yet, but it's too promising to ignore
<\sh> hmmm....another idea...let me try
<Amaranth> Well, that factory subclassing bit will come in handy. :)
<herve> I remember some <instance>.__of__(class) syntax
<herve> but it's a zope hack I guess
<Amaranth> I spent an hour last night trying various hacks to make this work
<herve> another idea may be to write a wrapper instead of a subclass
<herve> that wrapper picks a QWidget
<herve> and provides extra methods computed by calling the QWidget instance
<Amaranth> w00t, got it
<Amaranth> qwidgetinstance.__class__ = QBlah
<Amaranth> As long as QBlah subclasses QWidget it should be fine
<\sh> ahhh...let me try :)
<herve> hu no :-)
<herve> you need to patch __dict__ too
<Amaranth> herve: That only works for old-style classes
<herve> the name resolution is dynamic?
<\sh> sip
<\sh> but it's not working
<herve> hey!
<herve> Amaranth, it seems to work!
<Amaranth> http://rafb.net/paste/results/Ojy0Fv32.html
<herve> works with it without inheriting from object
<herve> s/it/or
* Amaranth is l33t python master ;)
<herve> ;)
<Amaranth> http://rafb.net/paste/results/9OAyi817.html <--works too
<herve> now do the same with C++ code :-)
<Amaranth> ha
<Amaranth> This is why I don't do C or C++. :)
<\sh> but i have this one:
<\sh> class foo: and class bar(foo):
<herve> it's ok
<\sh> and a class third: def __init__(self,instanceOfFoo).. def returnInstanceFoo(): return instanceOfFoo
<herve> that's the case I tested
<herve> you're using the wrapper or the subclass model?
<\sh> subclass
<herve> hmm...
<herve> Amaranth,
<herve> you sure the resolution is still dynamic with byte-code?
<Amaranth> ?
<Amaranth> You mean it doesn't work in a pyc?
<\sh> thats right
<herve> I wonder
<herve> haven't tested
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> i worked around
<herve> me too
<herve> I have all the patches to make dia exports independant of the locale
<\sh> nice...
<\sh> working
<herve> I am compiling dia to see if the patches are good :-)
<herve> I saw lamont filed a bug in debian about dia not compiling with gcc 4.0
<herve> the DD replied "heh, gcc 4 isn't even in debian!"
<\sh> herve: u have a flashplayer?
<herve> \sh, yes
<\sh> herve...ok stay here don't run away
<herve> :-)
<\sh> ok..just finished ;) publishing
<\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/12-More-from-Pynaptiq.html
<herve> nice video :-)
<\sh> yeah :)
<\sh> vnc2swf:)
<\sh> and I found another bug in the package...have to patch it, and rebuild it for breezy
<herve> woohoo! dia now ROCKS!
<\sh> well...we're working while the others shaking their balls ;)
<herve> I guess we have no kind uploader here?
<\sh> sureley not
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> thinking about a qtbittorrent client ;)
<ajmitch_> morning all
<crimsun> herve: sure, url?
<crimsun> morning ajmitch_
<\sh> oh :)
<\sh> a couple of packages have to be uploaded and/or reviewed ;)
<herve> crimsun, http://deb.oursours.net/motu/pending
<herve> morning ajmitch
<crimsun> herve: k
<herve> thanks in advance
<crimsun> herve: (need source.changes, too)
<crimsun> (unless you wanted me to pbuild them?)
<herve> I'll upload them
<crimsun> thanks
<herve> you'll upload them straight, without review,
<herve> ?
<crimsun> I'll review them in a bit if you'd like review
<crimsun> (I only saw a request for an uploader)
<herve> I was used to it with dholbach :-)
<herve> changes uploaded
<crimsun> ah, I guess I'll have to pbuild regardless, because you uploaded i386.changes :)
<herve> argh...
<crimsun> unless you built using pdebuild, in which case the source.changes will be in ../
<herve> uploaded
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-05
<herve> now I forwarded all my dpatches to debian
<crimsun> dia uploaded. I'm getting a strange checksum mismatch for ttf-larabie, so I'm redownloading the tar.gz
<herve> hrm
<herve> ha yes
<herve> it's a native package
<herve> *fear*
<herve> I'll probably have to upload the whole set
<herve> I just added the source.changes when you asked
<crimsun> ok, make sure the md5sum for the tar.gz matches what's listed for it in the .dsc
<herve> same sha1
<crimsun> c7f8189344a46d5c510112bba5eaacc105a8199c  ttf-larabie_20011216-3ubuntu1.tar.gz  <-- ?
<crimsun> for certain the md5sums didn't match
<herve> I get another value :-)
<crimsun> welp, that would explain that
<crimsun> I'm using wget
<herve> dia rejected
<crimsun> what was the reason?
<herve> "pload is signed by 0x1FE80436CA130121E49B77DB7BD1B015C88ABDA3 but is not in the Maintainer keyring."
<crimsun> what the
<crimsun> I just uploaded to universe a couple days ago
<herve> I reuploaded the whole ttf-larabie
<herve> but I guess it's not really important now :-()
<crimsun> and I did upload to the correct site (not Debian!)
<herve> I guess we need elmo's help
<crimsun> yep, or perhaps another MOTU with privs can try.
<crimsun> sorry, need to run. Will check back later.
<herve> np, thank you again
<herve> night all
<tseng> so who is running essid UBUNTU
<tseng> i cant dhcp it
<tseng> or better yet, who wants to come to room 205 and give me a cable
<tseng> ogra: !!!
<ogra> tseng, ....
<ogra> tseng, alrady here ?
<tseng> yep
<tseng> come on up!
<ogra> yay... we are packing our bags in the hostel and wait for a taxi to pick us up
<tseng> sweet
<tseng> so you will be here soon
<tseng> someone else is here already
<tseng> i heard someone pass my room talkinga bout canonical one
<tseng> and we have an UBUNTU essid
<ogra> dholbach is already walking to the hotel, he might be there soon
<tseng> awesome
<tseng> how far are you?
<tseng> i could go down to meet him
<ogra> tseng, a bit tired, (dholbach tends to stand up at 6 so we were waking up very early the week)
<tseng> yes
<ogra> but else i'm fine...have some blisters on my feet from discovering sydney *g*
<tseng> good :P
<tseng> i met some locals in the park next door
<tseng> a little drunk, they gave me m&ms and we had a good time
<ogra> heh
<mjr> I was wondering is there possibly going to be an amd64 mono for hoary, or will it have to wait?
<ogra> mjr, it will be in breezy
<mjr> righto
<ogra> tseng, ok, heading over to you now....
<tseng> ok
<ogra> ciao
<koke> tseng: you around?
<tseng> hi
<dholbach> hey!
<dholbach> tseng: how are you... nice to see you... finally
<tseng> yep
<tseng> lets talk on irc when we are 2 feet away
<tseng> geek sex
<dholbach> tseng: i had geek sex for one week now
<dholbach> with !6! guys around me
<dholbach> koke: sleeping already?
<koke> dholbach: maybe :)
<dholbach> :-)
<tseng> har
<koke> hey guys, I need caffeine quickly... do you know where I can get some free drinks?? :D
<dholbach> hrm... free drinks
<dholbach> dunno
<koke> hey, at the singapore airport there was "free ...." in all places
<tseng> like hookers free
<tseng> dholbach: :'
<tseng> :'(
<dholbach> tseng: oh, so you're really soooo sorry?
<dholbach> tseng: my cracktop needs HUGE amounts of power :-/
<tseng> thats because its so damn big
<tseng> you have a 30" screen
<dholbach> hahahaha :-)
<dholbach> tseng: still listening to country music?
<tseng> er
<dholbach> that's what i heard :-)
<tseng> you heard wrong
<dholbach> just kidding
<dholbach> hey tritium
<tritium> hey dholbach :)
<tritium> What's up?
<dholbach> finally arrived in the conference room, now tseng is going to take a picture of me or somethign
<dholbach> how are you?
<tritium> Cool.  I hope you're having fun!
<tseng> no such thing
<tseng> you imagined it
<dholbach> tritium: thank you... how are you?
<tritium> I'm getting a bit stressed, but managing, thanks.  How are you?
<dholbach> tritium: have blisters, but i'm fine, thanks :-)
<tritium> blisters?  what have you been up to?
<tseng> too much dildo
<tseng> (thats a common theme here)
<dholbach> tritium: walking from one beach to the other barefoot :-)
<dholbach> and walking in general
<tseng> does anyone know how to check out from svn on alioth
<tritium> I see...
<tseng> nm
<tseng> here comes the crack
<tseng> oh
<tseng> i shoudlnt do that here
<tseng> sigh
<tritium> Well, I just stopped in to say "hi".  You guys take care, and have fun.
<tseng> thanks
<tritium> See you later!
<tseng> cya.
<tritium> bye tseng, dholbach
<tseng> where is ajmitch
* schweeb pokes tseng 
* tseng pokes back
<tseng> in the eye
<schweeb> you went to UdU?  thought you weren't goin?
<tseng> im here, bish
<schweeb> you suck, bish
<tseng> ok
<tseng> whiprush was here
<schweeb> I just got back from penguicon, UdU would have been much teh better
<schweeb> yes, that's how I knew you were there
<tseng> he is spying for you?
<schweeb> of course
<schweeb> he's my bish
<tseng> what did he say about me?
<schweeb> something about your mother
<tseng> jeez
<schweeb> and how you look all of 14 :p
<tseng> 15, thanks
<Treenaks> a true Gentoo geek :P
<Treenaks> *whistle*
<schweeb> that's nothing to be proud of
<schweeb> her
<schweeb> bah, s/her//
* schweeb stabs his POS laptop + its trackpad
<tseng> didnt you see the pic mike made
<schweeb> which one? supertseng?
<tseng> yes
<schweeb> yea
<schweeb> lol
<tseng> !14
<Treenaks> url?
<dholbach> tseng: his flight seems to have get delayed or somethign
<tseng> thegrebs.com/~michael/orion/super.tseng.png
<tseng> is me as a cartoon
<Treenaks> there's no "S" on your chest
<dholbach> tseng: nice
<schweeb> how are the boomerangs and kangaroos, guys?
<tseng> they are suprisingly lax on the crack smoking here
<tseng> it doesnt really feel like being in another country that much
<tseng> and holy crap IE7 will have working png
<Treenaks> tseng: WTF?
<Treenaks> It's adapting!
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> welcome to 2001
<Treenaks> now we know Microsoft really ARE the borg.. they adapt..
<tseng> i need a nap
<tseng> yeah.. ill be down for dinner
<GheRivero> res
<ajmitch_> evening
<ogra> yay, ajmitch_
<dholbach> hey ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> it finally works..
<tseng> dholbach: i have my own kids table
<dholbach> tseng: oh... you're back
<dholbach> tseng: still tired?
<tseng> dholbach: yes
<dholbach> i can imagine
<dholbach> but food will make it better
<dholbach> tseng: hungry?
<tseng> dholbach: meh
<dholbach> hrm
* ajmitch_ is
<\sh> morning *yawn*
<LISP> hello; this is the xfce channel isn't it?
<\sh> no
<LISP> found out..unfortunately
<\sh> hoi dholbach
<dholbach> hey \sh
<\sh> how is it down under?
<dholbach> atm a bit hectic... planning the BOFs and everything
<\sh> dholbach: how long is the meeting? 1 week?
<dholbach> \sh: yes
<hsprang> hi!
<thierry_> hi, could you have a look at http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
<thierry_> this application looks great and the .deb is already done... would be great to have it on the universe
<ogra> thierry_, please add it to the UniverseCandidates page in the ubuntu wiki
<thierry_> k
<herve> *yawn* hi!
<\sh> hey herve
<\sh> hehe...I wrote a torrent client with pyqt and python-bittorrent api in less then 10 hours ;)
<ogra> \sh, you can do that faster ;)
<\sh> ogra: hehe...without having an api documentation for bt-api?
<\sh> but to half done apps in less then 48 hours is good
<\sh> i love python
<ogra> me too :)
<\sh> let me do some clean up of the gui and I will show you the result
<herve> even the python-gnome api? :-)
<ogra> herve, yep, yust not the stuff they left out ;)
<\sh> herve: I'm the one who disliked the whole gtk stuff from the very first beginning
<herve> I don't know about the api
<\sh> I wondered in the past and even today, how the guys from gimp can live with this nasty crap :(
<herve> but gtk looks much better than qt in a gui
<\sh> herve: for me it's important that you can use it
<\sh> and I don't like c++ style C code
<motaboy> Hi all!
<herve> hi
<ogra> night all
<trygvebw> Hi, in which package is dh_make?
<herve> dh-make
<herve> :-)
<trygvebw> ok :)
<trygvebw> thanks :)
<zyga> arr
<zyga> hello folks
<zyga> I'm asking again about freeciv 2.0
<zyga> ubuntu does sync with experimental or do I have to wait till freeciv goes to unstable/testing?
<herve> freeciv 2.0 is in unstable
<zyga> herve: so now it's just a matter of auto-syncing with it?
<herve> if the package compiles on ubuntu, yes
<zyga> herve: is there any page with up-to-date generated stats that I could track?
<herve> about what?
<zyga> herve: about wether it compiles or not
<herve> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/
<zyga> hmm freeciv is nowhere on the list
<zyga> isn't that list a little too short for universe?
<zyga> (aren't you a little too short for a stormtrooper) ;-)
<herve> size doesn't matter :-)
<herve> but sure it seems freeciv never made it
<zyga> gecko guys would disagree ;] 
<zyga> herve: never made it to transition or ... ?
<zyga> (transition from debian)
<herve> I can't even find any trace in hoart
<herve> hoary
<zyga> it's in hoary allright
<zyga> but it's outdated 1.4.x
<herve> sure
<herve> but dated from the time warty "forked" from unstable I gues
<herve> s
<herve> never updated afterwards
<zyga> herve: what can I do to help?
<zyga> should I tell someone about that / file a bug report?
<zyga> (or just compile from source and forget about package for a moment)
<herve> if you compile can recompile the debian package for breeezy
<herve> we could sync it by hand
<zyga> herve: I'm not a silled packager
<herve> just apt-get source freeciv
<herve> apt-get build-dep freeciv
<herve> cd freeciv-2.0.0
<zyga> herve: wont that fetch current 1.4.x version?
<herve> dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc
<herve> hu right
<herve> get the one from debian by hand
<zyga> right
<zyga> packages.debian.org has older version... trying to find a better place
<herve> hmmm
<herve> ha yes
<zyga> ok it's in experimental
<herve> of course freeciv never synced then!
<zyga> dind't it move to unstable?
<herve> seems not
<zyga> so I have three files .tar.gz .dsc and .diff.gz
<zyga> I guess I should apply the diffs first
<zul> zyga: dpkg-source -x *.dsc
<herve> ha yes, sorry
<zyga> zul: thanks! :)
<herve> you switched to the manual method :-)
<zyga> herve: I'm used to it ;-)
<zyga> getting deps now
<zyga> what does fakeroot do BTW?
<zyga> (building now)
<herve> argh
* zyga thanks herve and zul for invaluable assistance :-)
<herve> yes you need fakeroot :S
<zyga> I've already got it
<zyga> it seems to be a script of some kind ;] 
<zyga> does dpkg-buildpackage keep compilation log?
<stazz> Are the packages in the main repository updated only when new version of ubuntu is released?
<herve> I think no
<herve> you need another command in another package
<herve> that would do "fakeroot dpkg-buildpckage" in a row :-)
<herve> stazz, which version of ubuntu?
<stazz> herve: hoary
<herve> stazz, hoary only receives security and grave fixes, now
<zyga> hmm lots of warrnings but nothing critical IMHO
<herve> you the answer to your question is yes :-)
<herve> zyga, if you knew all warnings gcc 4.0 reveals... :-)
<stazz> herve: oh, damn.. so I should really use breezy to live on the edge? :)
<zyga> herve: nah pointer singn differs stuff that's in 3.4 AFAIR
<zul> xrisk is fun
<herve> stazz, warning, the edge is sharp!
* zyga has freeciv_2.0.0-*.debs
<zyga> :>
<zyga> so they build allright ;] 
<zyga> cool
<herve> zyga, already built? wow :-)
* zyga memorizes steps needed to build a package this way
<zyga> installing now
<herve> zyga, we have better tools if you build packages often
<stazz> herve: what are the tools called?
<herve> pacakge devscripts
<zyga> herve: I build stuff alot but not packages, I need to learn packaging first
<stazz> herve: where could one get them from?
<herve> stazz, apt-get install devscripts :-)
<stazz> heh.. ok
<zyga> hmm is there any way to cross compile stuff this way?
<zyga> (by any I mean = easy, not any)
<zyga> so that I could produce i386, amd64 and ppc packages from, say amd64
<herve> I don't know about cross-compiling
<mjr> I don't believe there's a prearranged easy way
<zyga> hmm menu entries were not updated ...
<zyga> ah
* zyga is blind
<zyga> works fine :>
<zyga> thanks again
<zyga> if anyone want's my .debs I can put them on a website for easy access
<zyga> (if I knew how simple this was I would never have waited for universe to sync)
<zyga> freeciv roxx :>
<burner> so... i was going to post some stuff to the wiki about Azureus... but I'm curious if it's already in the plans to grab the latest .deb from debian unstable/sarge (they're the same version)
<\sh> burner: azureus is not in the ubuntu repos
<\sh> burner: just because of java
<\sh> please search for java and azureus on the wiki
<bur[n] er> \sh: i already installed it via debian unstable
<bur[n] er> but...
<bur[n] er> couldn't at least azureus be in ubuntu without the java dependency?
<bur[n] er> just put it in as a broken package?
<bur[n] er> so people could add their own source for java itself
<\sh> bur[n] er: no...too much chaos then..lets wait for java packages
<\sh> bur[n] er: or use btdownloadcurses or my tool (qt-python app + bittorrent python api)
<bur[n] er> bleh to other tools ;)
<bur[n] er> java is going to be included in multiverse/universe at some point right?  so azureus packages could be on the way after that?
<\sh> bur[n] er: I think so
<bur[n] er> thanks \sh
<herve> night all!
<GheRivero> res
<trulux> heya fellows
<tseng> guten morgen trulux
<trulux> hi tseng
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-06
<zul> how is sydney tseng?
<tseng> good thanks
<zul> has the bof started yet?
<tseng> no
<tseng> an hour
<zul> ah
<schweeb> howdy, dholbach
<ajmitch_> morning
<dholbach> hey schweeb, ajmitch_ :-)
<schweeb> how's Australia
<dholbach> schweeb: mark has his talk
<dholbach> is having
<schweeb> awesome
<Burgundavia> what is the great sabdfl saying?
<zul> *cough* flumotion *cough*
<Burgundavia> is there a stream?
<zul> nope
<koke> ogra: dholbach where are you now?
<ogra> koke, i'm in sublime1
<ogra> (where we had the expanding-universe bof
<Burgundavia> ogra, I did some more expansion of the gis page, looking for stuff that is already packaged
<Burgundavia> is it still useful for me to continue doing that?
<dholbach> koke: newsletter bof
<tseng> dholbach: !
<dholbach> tseng: whats up?
<tseng> nm
<tseng> what bof next?
<tseng> toolchain or kernel
<koke> maybe thinclients or toolchain for me
<dholbach> where's toolchain?
<ajmitch_> sublime 2
<tseng> who has working usbmass
<ogra> Burgundavia, wow, great :)
<Burgundavia> ogra, I am about half done doing that opengis page, should I keep on working on it?
<ogra> opengis ?
<ogra> you mean the debian list ?
<Burgundavia> the opengis.org page, that lists all the hundreds of programs
<ogra> ah, the opensourcegis.org
<Burgundavia> I have been checking those what they are and if they are packaged
<ogra> if youre already half done, and like to go on, go on ;)
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> I will only do it if it is useful for eventuallly getting them into ubuntu
<\sh> morning
<\sh> ok..now i'm working on https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/412
<ajmitch_> hi \sh
<\sh> morning ajmitch
<\sh> well, the actual version of eric3 is running perfekt
<\sh> but not this one in hoary
<\sh> bti qsizepolicy looks like, it's a problem with python-qt
<\sh> the segmentation fault a problem of eric
<susus> ogra: ping
<tseng> hi ogra
<ogra> hey, still awake tseng  ?
<tseng> yes and no
<tseng> dinner here takes so long
<Treenaks> tseng: I'm sure it's nothing compared to Spanish dinners ;)
<tseng> i dont like the food here
<tseng> the dinners anyway, its rather odd stuff
<Treenaks> "odd stuff"?
<tseng> yes
<Treenaks> chunks of cow?
<ajmitch_> bbl :)
<tseng> oh and, there are 2 of each course on the menu
<tseng> and you randomly get one
<Treenaks> cool
<tseng> whip|udu: ping?
<whip|udu> hey
<whip|udu> tseng: yeah?
<tseng> whip|udu: tell schweed he is my bish
<tseng> schweeb
<\sh> re
<trulux> what's the font used in the mono logo? :)
<Burgundavia> #dashboard or #mono might give you a better answer
<trulux> Burgundavia: I think it's the first off-topic question I make in this channel after a big couple of questions regarding Ubuntu development, just asking as here we have some Mono lovers
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> who did the mono logo?
<trulux> Burgundavia: should I know it? :)
<herve> hi
<trulux> hey herve
<trulux> herve: do you have some free time now?
<herve> hardly
<\sh> hey herve
<\sh> herve: are u working on the python-sip qt3 and kde packages?
<herve> not anymore
<\sh> herve: shit..
<herve> I tried my hands on them a few weeks ago now
<\sh> we should provide actual versions and pykde is only in the snapshot release usable
<herve> you mean there's an upstream not packaged in debian?
<\sh> herve: I didn't check breezy right now, but I think they don't use pykde-snapshot from 20050316
<\sh> cause the 3.11.x is broken
<\sh> lemme check
<herve> trulux, what was on your mind?
<herve> \sh, the logic would drive to package stable versions, not snapshots :-)
<herve> \sh, all 3.11.x or < 3.11.3 ?
<\sh> herve: there is only one official 3.11.x == 3.11.3
<trulux> herve: the final libssp packages
<herve> trulux, I'm afraid it's a too big fish for my few skills
<trulux> herve: I don't think so
<trulux> in the other hand, I have partially finished the gcc-3.4-hardened package, just that I don't know how to make it "moving", at least virtually, /usr/bin/ld to the created tmp dir, it's throwing errors due to the obvious unexistence of the file within the package source tree
<trulux> let's say, package build tree
<herve> \sh, you refer to python-kde3 ?
<herve> trulux, what would I have to do?
<\sh> herve: jepp
<\sh> hmm...qlist.h is not there anymore
<\sh> in the sip file but it's included..removing it ;)
<herve> \sh, I saw the latest changes we are missing wrt debian, and they seem quite interesting
<trulux> herve: just test them and look at them so, you can have an idea before uploading them which is something we need to have done
<\sh> well...finally I'm compiling by hand now :)
<herve> trulux, I can't upload you know
<herve> hi AstralJava
<AstralJava> Hi herve!
<AstralJava> ...and all. :)
<\sh> and the unstable package of pykde is 3.11.3
<herve> \sh, -4
<herve> we have -1
<\sh> herve: but ours is against python2.3 and not 2.4
<\sh> but sip4-qt3 is against 2.4
<herve> trulux, maybe in about two hours
<herve> \sh, that's part of the mess I tried to solve
<\sh> ok..lets wait for the sync of those packages
<\sh> cause on breezy we're always with -1
<herve> you know, you are one of the people who would make this sync
<herve> I doubt it will be autosync
<herve> because it was altered for ubuntu
<\sh> herve: ok..i will deal with it later ;)
<\sh> cause those packages are really messy
<\sh> eric3 the same
<herve> I tried eric3 a few days ago and it ran fine
<\sh> updated version is running like a unicorn...smooth and nice with stars sprinkling
<\sh> herve: but not with our versions of pyqt etc.
<\sh> default is: issue with qsizepolicy (wich is a pyqt issue, and resolved in a new version)
<\sh> and a segfault
<\sh> and this is also know by upstream and fixed in actual release
<\sh> what we were shipping is 2-3 minorversions old
<\sh> thats the reason why, I would like to see a change of behaviour with bugfixes...
<herve> that's also what I expect from bugfixes ;-)
<\sh> bugfix-packages after release would be nice for the user
<herve> ok, see you later!
<\sh> cu herve
<AstralJava> See ya.
<trulux> herve: ok, many thanks in advance
<herve> houba !
<herve> ok trulux
<herve> I give you the next hour
<herve> now I mean, for an hour
<trulux> herve: oh, many thanks ;D
<lsuactiafner> ok i run a native 64bit system, the current mplayer package for amd64 doesnt run the 32bit w32codecs to play wmv files, so i make a statically linked 32bit binary compiled for athlon-4 that will play the wmv files, called mplayer32
<trulux> herve: I'm off for today
<lsuactiafner> now i want to make a package for it, to basically cp mplayer32_binary /usr/local/bin
<lsuactiafner> so the fakeroot and dbuild commands are basically useless for me.. since i had to crate a chroot with serveral compile flags ect to make the binary
<trulux> herve: could you send your comments and whatever you think would be worthy to lorenzo@gnu.org?
<lsuactiafner> but i'm new to this so not sure what to do from here?
<herve> trulux, sure but about what? what to do!!
<herve> lsuactiafner, not sure to understrand, you want to make a debian package from a set of files
<herve> that's what we usually call a tarball :-)
<lsuactiafner> well a debian package with only one file in it
<lsuactiafner> that needs perform the command to the effect of cp mplayer32_binary /usr/local/bin
<herve> do it by hand, that's the best solution
<herve> especially because a debian package don't have to do anything in /usr/local
<lsuactiafner> k will see if i can figure it out
<lsuactiafner> tried earlier but looked like the syntax would give me problems
<trulux> herve: test it, review the structure, check for anything to complain, do a upload or forward it to pitti or mdz or someone with time to upload
<trulux> herve: that's it
<trulux> now, see you
<trulux> herve: many thanks in advance
<lsuactiafner> thanks
<trulux> herve: are you dcc capable?
<herve> trulux, ha ok, will seek your archive in the wiki
<trulux> herve: ok
<herve> trulux, never tried from here
<herve> lsuactiafner, cd / && tar zcf /tmp/mplayer-static.tgz usr/local/bin/mplayer_static
<trulux> herve: common way: untar the archive, apply the debian diff and try to build, there's a very last error regarding the /usr/bin/ld to /usr/bin/ld.real movement I told you
<herve> lsuactiafner, you're done :-)
<trulux> herve: 'nite :)
<trulux> 'nite all
<herve> night!
<lsuactiafner> herve : yeh am now after writing INFO ect files
<lsuactiafner> will send in next 10 minutes
<lsuactiafner> ok dcc this or can i upload to a local ftp server?
<lsuactiafner> am on a 5k/s dailup so its better to use ftp servers rather than dcc
<lsuactiafner> uploading..
<lsuactiafner> siretart:  10:27    0.28/  3.42 MB    5.12 kB/s -
<lsuactiafner> the server is like 1200m from here on a much faster link.. am stuck on a dailup
<siretart> hi
<siretart> lsuactiafner: huh?
<lsuactiafner> umm
<lsuactiafner> i made a package, need some developer to look @ it and adjust the package as need be
<lsuactiafner> since i dont know how to make a decent workable package, only the binary
<crimsun> please add your repo's url to the MOTUTodo
<crimsun> and the appropriate NEW page if it's new
<\sh> *grmpf*
<\sh> herve: ping
<herve> night all
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-07
<dholbach> morning
<tseng> hi
<ajmitch_> hi
<Riddell> the masters... http://jriddell.org/photos/2004-04-26-sydney-dholbach-ogra-motu-bof.jpg
<zul> scarey...who is who?
<ajmitch_> dholbach, ogra, koke
<mvirkkil> koke: talking of the devil ;-)
<koke> err, what?
<mvirkkil> koke: zul asked who is who in this pic: http://jriddell.org/photos/2004-04-26-sydney-dholbach-ogra-motu-bof.jpg
<mvirkkil> koke: And ten seconds after ajmitch_ replied, you joined.
<koke> mvirkkil: yeah, he's next to me :)
<koke> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUTodo#msg20050425222306+0100@https://www.ubuntulinux.org <-- what do you think about the mplayer comment?
<koke> apart from I think it's not on the correct place
<schweeb> any of you guys within poking distance of whiprush?
<schweeb> if so, tell him I'm returning his ping from earlier
<tseng> ill poke him in the eye
<tseng> when i see him.
<schweeb> I hear shuttleworth shuts off you kids' wifi at night :)
<Unfrgiven> schweeb: thats cuz its really expensive
<schweeb> he's got the monies to pay though ;)
<tseng> yeah.
* schweeb looks around for sabdfl
<tseng> my hands start shaking when it goes off
<schweeb> whew
<tseng> its rough
<Unfrgiven> tseng: hehehe
<schweeb> tseng: in reply to your earlier comment, you are MY bish
<tseng> no
<tseng> you have it all backwards
<schweeb> I PWN J00
<koke> schweeb: hey, he's in Global
<schweeb> Global?
<koke> this room :)
<schweeb> take a picture of the dumb look on his face, send it to me, then throw something at him, and tell him if he had something useful to say, to message me :)
<koke> ping %motus :P
<koke> What would we want for a NewMOUTGuide?
<ogra> koke, a stripped down debian new maintainers guide ?
<koke> sure, but we'll want to add things like cdbs, dpatch and more
<ogra> with some tweakage for ubuntu and a chapter about cdbs....
<koke> how to fix XX, and YY...
<ogra> yep
<Burgundavia> the docteam is looking at a new web frontend, so hopefully we can get non-docteam stuff like that on there (it will interface with our svn repo)
<schweeb> whorehay
* schweeb pokes whiprush
* ajmitch_ looks in
* bddebian pokes ajmitch_ in the eye
<bddebian> :-)
<ogra> bddebian, please regard the code of conduct !
<ogra> bddebian, (take a fluffy glove )
<ogra> ;)
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch_ knows that I love him :-)
<ogra> :)
* schweeb stabs whiprush
<bddebian> Hey ogra how come you aren't yelling at schweeb, he is obviously more violent?? :-)
<bddebian> Bah
* tseng stabs schweeb in the face
<tseng> (oh nose)
<schweeb> bddebian: whiprush has a bit of extra padding
<schweeb> he can take it
<bddebian> Sheesh, it's getting bloody in here all the sudden :-)
<schweeb> he also has his +10 GNOME fanboi shield
<bddebian> hehe
<schweeb> tseng, however
* schweeb shoots tseng with a 50 cal rifle
<ajmitch_> hi bddebian
<ajmitch_> why aren't you at UDU?
<schweeb> some of us are poor/don't have time :)
<schweeb> I've got a little of both going on
<schweeb> dunno what his excuse is :)
<bddebian> ajmitch_: Because I suck.. :-(
<bddebian> I haven't even shipped your laptop yet I am such a fucking loser.. :'-(
<HostingGeek> WOW its udu today!
<HostingGeek> I might come
<HostingGeek> where is it
<dholbach> hey
<ogra> dholbach, hey ?
<tseng> hi.
<dholbach> ogra: hrm?
<ogra> :)
<tseng> hrmph
<ogra> humph
<dholbach> see you later
<ajmitch_> tseng: initial mono crack is ready
<ajmitch_> so it'll be upload, wait for buildds, upload improved mono
<tseng> ajmitch_: rock
<tseng> are you uploading now?
<ogra> ajmitch_, dont upload from here....
<tseng> its on my linode
<tseng> over ssh
<ajmitch_> ogra: it's been built on a remote box
<ogra> ah, ok
<ajmitch_> I'll upload in a few min, just had to sign the changes & dsc
<tseng> ok.
<ajmitch_> hi d3vic3
<ajmitch_> welcome to UDU
<d3vic3> lo ajmitch_
<d3vic3> thanx,
<tseng> hi
* d3vic3 thinks about the 1 hour at security gate *sigh* 
<d3vic3> hi
* ajmitch_ hopes he didn't break the upload too badly :)
<tseng> ill cut you
<tseng> :x
<ajmitch_> heh
<ogra> hey d3vic3
* ogra waves
<d3vic3> lo ogra
<tseng> ajmitch_: are you stuck in NEW?
<ajmitch_> not sure, I need a new whitelisted address
<Amaranth> can someone tell me what linda is trying to tell me here?
<Amaranth> whiprush: smeg; ex-desc-contains-desc_s
<Amaranth> File /home/travis/Projects/smeg_0.5-0ubuntu1_all.deb failed to process: Format args for usr-lib-in-arch-all don't match Description. (0 vs 1)
<Amaranth> err, that should be W:
<Amaranth> I passed lintian, just need to clear up linda warnings. :)
<\sh> morning guys
<ajmitch_> hi \sh
<bddebian> Heya Boilermaker
<bddebian> :)
<tritium> Go Irish!  ;)
<tritium> What's up bddebian?
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> Work.. :-(  You?
<tritium> Same here.
<\sh> re
<herve> hi
<AstralJava> Hello herve.
<\sh> hi herve
<\sh> welcome ian|static :)
<ian|static> lo \sh :)
<\sh> I'm quite proud to introduce to you, dear MOTUs, a new (K)ubuntu member, formerly gentoo infrastructure member and dev, ian!
<\sh> ^^
<ian|static> heh.. thanks.
<\sh> it's quite silent here, cause most of the guys are at the UdU conference right now :) but herve is working ,-)
<\sh> it's really nice this background
<ian|static> thanks. just put it on kdelook.org too. ( http://kdelook.org/content/show.php?content=23444 )
<mjr> hmm, the universe gnomebaker crashes hard for me, both in native amd64 and in x86 chroot
<mjr> just checking, but is this known? :)
<herve> bye all
<GheRivero> res
<\sh> hi
<\sh> patching pykde to hell
<Amaranth> \sh: Make sure it stays there. :D
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-08
<\sh> Amaranth: hehe..but now it works :)
<\sh> i applied a couple of third party patches and now kconfigskeleton can deal with bool,ints etc,
<Amaranth> it'll all break again soon
<Amaranth> gcc4 :P
<\sh> Amaranth: well..:) before I try to compile sip/pyqt/pykde, kde itself must compile with gcc4 and right now, it's blacklisted ;)
* Amaranth thinks everyone should compile with -Werror
<Amaranth> If you don't have any warnings you don't have anything deprecated to break next release.
<\sh> well, sometimes the upstream must have something to do :)
<ajmitch_> morning
<tseng> schweeb: *slap*
<schweeb> tseng: you are my bish
<ajmitch_> hah
<tseng> false
<tseng> ask whiprush
<schweeb> whiprush is just a plain bish.
<schweeb> and you are my bish.
<tseng> no way
<whiprush> it's a circular bitch dependency
<schweeb> rofl
<tseng> wait for it
<dholbach> hey
<ajmitch_> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch_
<schweeb> dholbach: make sure whiprush comes home with a Ubuntu shirt for me :)
<schweeb> this is the task I place on you, oh great MOTU
<dholbach> schweeb: what size are you?
<schweeb> dholbach: Large
<schweeb> or XL, if they're kinda small tshirts
<schweeb> (dunno how the euro sizes work or anything)
<thom> schweeb: we are not in teh eurozone :-)
<thom> (and australians are pretty good at blindly copying yanks ;-) )
<schweeb> yea, but you're at .uk's former prison colony :p
<schweeb> I suggest you withold whiprush's membership status until I get a t-shirt :)
<thom> hahah
<schweeb> which, I should probably have my status, if there were ever another CC meeting ;)
<schweeb> I'm guessing it'll be another 2 wks after UdU is over for the next one, now
<schweeb> hrm... think I'll start hackin around on breezy tomorrow... done w/ the old job, have a few days off before the new job
<thom> breezy is pretty scary right now :-)
<schweeb> indeed, I have a few buddies that upgraded
<schweeb> if I didn't have spare time, I wouldn't even consider it for the next 2 or 3 weeks after UdU, as I'm sure things will go NUTS
<schweeb> but, I fully support Grumpy, so I'm obviously a fan of crack
<tseng> grumpy is evil
<Unfrgiven> grumpy is likely going to result in the number of bugs in bugzilla to blowout
<ajmitch_> grumpy is sweet crack
<dholbach> tritium: hey michael
<tritium> dholbach, hey Daniel :)
<tritium> What's going on?
<dholbach> just finished the edubuntu bof :-)
<tritium> edubuntu?
<tritium> ubuntu in education?
<dholbach> yes
<tritium> awesome!
<dholbach> now i'll have a bof with mvo
<dholbach> see you
<tritium> see you :)
<ajmitch_> 
<jaldhar> Riddell: ping
<ajmitch_> hey bddebian
<tseng> ajmitch_: crack
<tseng> ajmitch_: pure crack.
<ajmitch_> tseng: how good is that crack?
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch!
<tseng> hey dudes.
<bddebian> Hello tseng
<ajmitch_> wb fabbione :)
<bddebian> ajmitch_: Are you at UDU?
<Riddell> jaldhar: yo
<ajmitch_> bddebian: sure
<bddebian> ajmitch_: Sure?
<bddebian> jaldhar is here?
<jaldhar> Riddell: I'm involved in packaging yast for debian.  Is this sometinhg kubuntu would be interested in?
<jaldhar> bddebian: yes
<ajmitch_> bddebian: sure, I'm at UDU
<ajmitch_> :P
<d3vic3> jaldhar, issint yast specific to SuSe, I mean license wise ?
<jaldhar> d3vic3: not anyomore.  It is GPL as of 9.2
<bddebian> ajmitch_: Is that sarcasm?
<d3vic3> jaldhar, sweet
<d3vic3> but then, it configures everything system wide? will it be apt-get/dpkg-* compatible then ?
<ajmitch_> bddebian
<ajmitch_> no, it's a statement of fact
<bddebian> ajmitch_: Ahh.  How is it?
<jaldhar> d3vic3: eventually though we still have a long way to go
<d3vic3> jaldhar, i can imagine
<jaldhar> See: http://yast4debian.alioth.debian.org/
<d3vic3> I can give a helping hand, I'm an ex suse user (prev company)
<jaldhar> d3vic3: fnat would be great
<jaldhar> s/fnat/that/
* jaldhar is typing with one hand and rocking a cranky baby with the other
<dholbach> jaldhar, d3vic3: could you talk with Kamion about this? i think he would like to hear about it althought i assume he wouldn't approve of it
<d3vic3> sure
<jaldhar> dholbach: ok.  the only drawback I see is there is no equivalent GNOME ui for it (though there is a curses one.)
<dholbach> jaldhar: i assume adjusting it to the needs of the ubuntu/debian world is more work than a proper new interface
<Riddell> jaldhar: sounds very insteresting
<Riddell> jaldhar: do you have anything available currently?
<jaldhar> Riddell: a very basic version (i.e. it starts up without crashing) is available.  More is working but I haven't packaged it yet.  in a day or two I hope
<jaldhar> See: http://yast4debian.alioth.debian.org/ especially the FAQ for details on the apt source
<Riddell> jaldhar: cool, I'll try and check it out, keep us updated too
<Riddell> jaldhar: we are going to have to start looking for configuration tools for the next kubuntu soon
<jaldhar> Riddell: what kind of timeframe is soon?
* ogra reads yast
* ogra runs as fast as he can
<bddebian> heh
<jaldhar> dholbach: the major work will be in fixing the location of files, becoming debian policy compliant etc.
<dholbach> it should be completely coordinated with the guys from "main"
<d3vic3> probably
<amu> hehe
<Riddell> jaldhar: well next release is in 5 months
<Riddell> jaldhar: but we'll need to look at configurations tools pretty soon like in the next month I guess
<jaldhar> Riddell: we hope to have everything basically working by then
<jaldhar> Riddell: btw I will be applying to be a MOTU soon as soon as I can spare some time to backup this laptop and install kubuntu on it
<dholbach> could you take the conversation to #ubuntu-devel
<dholbach> i'm sure they want to hear about it
<d3vic3> true
<jaldhar> dholbach: ok I'll do that after I've finished the next round of packaging so there is actually something worth looking at.  I just wanted to get an initial reaction for now
<Riddell> jaldhar: sign up athttp://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUKDE
<jaldhar> Riddell: will do
<ajmitch_> ogra: yast?! what crack is this?
<dholbach> jaldhar: i really encourage you to work with us, but to be honest, i'm not very confident in yast in ubuntu, but that's just my opinion
<tseng> buh.
<ogra> ajmitch_, www.suse.com ;)
<ajmitch_> ogra: yes, I've seen that..
* bddebian shields his eyes
<d3vic3> ajmitch_, Zope BOF is on
<ajmitch_> d3vic3: I thought that was this afternoon?
<tseng> where is ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> ajmitch is upstairs @ the zope BOF
<tseng> ok
<tseng> im at drafting for selinux
<ajmitch_> tseng: come & visit me in vibe out if you want to talk in person
<tseng> ok.
<tseng> schweeb schweeb schweeb schweeb schweeb schweeb
<blueyed> schweeb
* tseng ignores lunitik
<GheRivero> res
<ajmitch_> d3vic3: we're down in forum, if you want to join us
<tseng> ajmitch_: he doesnt.
* ajmitch_ feels so unloved
<tseng> vibe the fuck out.
<\sh> morninh
<\sh> -h+g
<\sh> http://www.airbus.com/A380/seeing/indexminisite.aspx first flight of the A380
<Treenaks> I want one for my next birthday!
<\sh> me too :)
<\sh> and I patched my pykde so it's working as expected...
<\sh> now i can go and change the packages
<Treenaks> pykde.. *shudder*
<\sh> why=
<\sh> ?
<\sh> anyways...coffee :)
<\sh> and shower
<\sh> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey \sh
<\sh> how r u? :)
<dholbach> busy :-)
<\sh> hehe :)
<\sh> did u or anyone else make some videos from the conf?
<dholbach> dont think so
<\sh> thats bad ;)
<koke> I have one of the Sydney opera house, but only with spanish ppl
<tritium> Good morning.
<trulux> tritium: hey! :)
<tritium> Hey trulux :)
<trulux> tritium: howya?
<tritium> trulux, busy but good.  You?
<trulux> Treenaks: same, too busy with school, good (though not really good ...), jus preparing things for German class
* Treenaks looks at trulux 
* trulux looks at Treenaks 
<Treenaks> trulux: itym tritium
<trulux> Treenaks: oh, right, It took time for me to get the joke *grin*
<tritium> :)
<tritium> Morning, ogra
<ogra> hey tritium
<dholbach> hey tritium
<dholbach> ogra: where are you hanging out?
<tritium> Hey dholbach :)
<ogra> 2nd floor
<tseng> 2nd floor sublime?
<ogra> in the corridor
<tseng> lame
<tritium> I'm on the 2nd floor too ;)
<ogra> on the sofas
<ogra> tritium, wrong continent ;)
<tritium> ogra, dang :(
<tritium> I'll join you guys in spirit, by crawling "down under" my desk.
<trulux> tritium: haha :)
<ogra> dholbach, coming downstrairs for a smoke now
<dholbach> ogra: ROCK
<Treenaks> crack rock?
<\sh> hey ogra
<bddebian> Hello
<tritium> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Heya Boilermaker / Fightin' Irish.. ;-P
<tritium> :)
<\sh> grmpf normally i have free today
<\sh> but those guys from nagra, they screwing everythin
<tritium> nagra?
<\sh> dtv crypto system
<tritium> I see
<\sh> so..one last cigarette and then getting ready to rumble ;)
<Treenaks> \sh: firing squad etc.
<\sh> ok...leaving cu later guys
<tritium> me too...se you all later.
<tritium> see
<dholbach> good night!
<Unfrgiven> can anyone give me a hand with dpatch?
<Unfrgiven> i have created a patch called 01blah.dpatch. i have a file called 00list with "01blah" in it. but the patch doesnt seem to be applied. any ideas? what am i doing wrong?
<trulux> try to rename it to 01_blach.dpatch
<Unfrgiven> trulux: ok trying it now.
<Unfrgiven> does pbuilder give any indication that it is running dpatch?
<Unfrgiven> trulux: didnt work :(
<trulux> Unfrgiven: ... have you read the developer reference?
<Unfrgiven> trulux: no i havent
<Unfrgiven> trulux: i guess i should
<Unfrgiven> trulux: i thought that it was outdated and the one to read was new maintainers guide
<trulux> yes, I think so, but I'm not an expert on packaging (yet ;P )
<schweeb> tseng: ?
<schweeb> all you freakin people in .au, trying to ping me at 3:30 am @_@
<trulux> schweeb: better, all you freakin' people at .au having fun in the beach, talking to the Ubuntu fellows and drinking .au beer together, trying to make me committing suicide 'cos I'm not there!?
<schweeb> that too
<AstralJava> Hehe, was it today's or yesterday's UF's daily strip, that said "All Fosters is shipped overseas, but I can see if guys can find you something similar from the sump...".
<AstralJava> Might not be too jealous after all...
<herve> hello
<bddebian> Hello herve
<AstralJava> Hi herve.
<herve> if you're wondering about unicode and encodings, there is this excellent article: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html
<tarzeau> how to get software into ubuntu ?
<bddebian> Heya tarzeau
<tarzeau> bddebian: omg please tell me you don't use ubuntu
<tritium> tarzeau, this is a good starting place: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUGettingIntoIt
<bddebian> tarzeau: Why?
<tarzeau> oh i need to be on irc to get packages into ubuntu?
<tritium> well, you'll need to coordinate with others to get your packages reviewed and eventually approved
<tarzeau> bddebian: have you lately played w/ plan9?
<bddebian> tarzeau: No, haven't seen it.  I was supposed to see the talk about it at FOSDEM but they were running so far behind that I missed it. :-(
<tritium> tarzeau, which software?
<tarzeau> tritium: www.linuks.mine.nu/debian/supertransball2/
<tritium> are those package you build yourself?
<tarzeau> yes
<tritium> tarzeau, you could review the MOTU process, and consider getting involved.  If you want to pursue it, request a package review.  Some changes would be necessary (e.g. ubuntu version number, etc.)
<tarzeau> tritium: ah ok, thanks
<tarzeau> no i don't really feel like it, rather go play that and nethack some more
<tarzeau> bddebian: hurd, right?
<bddebian> tarzeau: Of course, what else is there? :-)
<tarzeau> bddebian: gnu-kbsd ?  i run OPENSTEP (Mach ;)
<Gagatan> g'evening
<tarzeau> bddebian: it's just confusing me to see you here
<Gagatan> I'm maintaining a couple of packages in debian.. and I've applied for motu.. I'd like to have updated packages in ubuntu as well as debian.. what's the next step?
<Gagatan> I'm not DD as I have 2 DDs sponsoring my current packages
<bddebian> tarzeau: Why?  I was trying to become a DD but I am questioning that decision so I came here. :-)
<herve> tarzeau, strange, your diff.gz has DOS end of lines :-)
<tarzeau> herve: because upstream hs DOS end of lines
<herve> tarzeau, *fear* :-)
<tarzeau> herve: that stuff is developed on dos you know (well windows nowadays)
<tarzeau> i have nother: http://gnu.ethz.ch/debian/ocp/
<tarzeau> and one more game too!
<tarzeau> Gagatan: which packages you do?
<herve> tarzeau, you've done the diff.gz yourself?
<herve> I mean the changes
<tarzeau> bddebian: haha, i would love a @gnu.org one
<tarzeau> herve: yes
<tarzeau> herve: why do you guys ask so strange questions?
<tarzeau> if i do the stuff myself? who else, my mom?
<herve> tarzeau, you should really consider using dpatch
<bddebian> tarzeau: A gnu.org what?
<herve> tarzeau, you could work with other people/upstream, etc.
<tarzeau> herve: it's up to the maintainer what he uses
<tarzeau> herve: i have talked with these upstreams, and chosen to do it how it is now
<herve> it's up to you to ease your reviewer's and upstream's life ;-)
<tarzeau> i have my reasons. if you really want, i can explain them to you
<Gagatan> tarzeau: luma,pyrad and python-smbpasswd
<herve> tarzeau, I'm not considering your changes but how to review and maintain them
<tarzeau> nothing hard to review here, is there?
<tarzeau> herve: look into the diff.gz and review it?
<herve> in short, we have better tools than modifying the source code itself
<tritium> tarzeau, lintian checks, etc. as well
<herve> tarzeau, I can't get why you did those changes and the consequences
<tarzeau> tritium: i use lintian
<tarzeau> herve: which exactly?
<Gagatan> tarzeau: quite simple packages.. I'm also co-developing luma.. all packages lintian-clean upon upload to d.unstable
<tritium> tarzeau, that's fine.  Nevertheless, you'll want to work cooperatively with whoever reviews your packages.
<herve> tarzeau, the whole, it's just a 844 lines diff for me
<tarzeau> tritium: true
<tarzeau> tritium: but if i will do this longterm is a question that is unanswered, because keeping stuff in debian, will likely get them in all forks of debian
<tritium> tarzeau, I guess that is a question only you can decide
<Gagatan> well.. I'm gonna hunt some food.. I'd really appreciate if someone could give me a hint on the next step of becoming motu (other than wait)
<herve> Gagatan, what's your current state?
<Gagatan> herve: applied on the webpage.. and tried asking here a while ago, but no reply
<herve> Gagatan, applied to be a MOTU? I'm afraid you forgot some steps...
<tritium> Gagatan, you read the wiki page?
<bddebian> What if I'm stupid but want to become an MOTU?? :-)
<Gagatan> tritium: at least I thought so at the time.. ;) I'm on the list of candidates.. next step is get a signed gpg key to sign the Code of Conduct?
<herve> bddebian, stupid people can help ubuntu too ;-)
<tritium> Gagatan, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUGettingIntoIt
<herve> Gagatan, you don't need a trusted key for signing the CoC but it won't be enough for uploading packages on your own
<tritium> bddebian, you're not, though
<herve> Gagatan, note you need to be a member at first
<herve> which is quite easy
<bddebian> herve: How so? :-)
<bddebian> tritium: How would you know? :-)
<tritium> bddebian, because you're a smart guy
<bddebian> tritium: Well don't go pull my records from Purdue then.. ;-P
<tritium> bddebian, lol, okay ;)
<herve> bddebian, providing usability tests :-)
<herve> Purdue is a school?
<tritium> herve, yes, a University (known for engineering)
<tritium> dropped a few spots to 10th: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/eng/brief/engrank_brief.php
<bddebian>  :-(
<herve> bddebian, then, if you saw my own records... -:)
<tritium> bddebian, imho, GPA is not a sufficient statistic
<tritium> So don't be so down about it.
<bddebian> tritium: Oh I could care less about GPA, I'm just still not so bright.. ;-P
<bddebian> For example, I'm about to go have a cigarette, knowing full well that it is killing me.. ;-)
<tritium> well, everyone shines brightly in their own way
<herve> bddebian, how can you look yourself in a mirror afterwards?! ;-)
<tritium> bddebian, you can always stop
<bddebian> Nah, if I stop I'll start drinking heavily. :-)
<blueyed> Are there know problems with ppp on breezy? Actually (since the last update of "ppp" (on 24th) I have to run "sudo pppoeconf" after each reboot).
<blueyed> s/know/known/
<trulux> herve: hey
<trulux> tritium: talking about Purdue? :)
<tritium> trulux, we were, yes
<Gagatan> herve: heh.. now I see :)  I'll go see if I can help out somewhere :-)
<herve> hi trulux
<trulux> herve: bbl, dinner, then I'll talk to you on the packages
<herve> trulux, too late for tonight :-p
<herve> by the way
<herve> good night all!
<siretart> hi there
<siretart> does anyone has experience with packaging python apps with cdbs? I want to change the bindir prefix. is this possible?
<siretart> I don't know distutils very well :(
<\sh> re
<siretart> hi \sh
<tritium> "re" still puzzles me...
<siretart> tritium: its short for "Hi, I've returned"
<tritium> siretart, ah, taken from "returned"?  Thanks...
<siretart> jupp
<tritium> :)
<siretart> :)
<siretart> I'm packaging a game in python
<siretart> the distutils is installing the scripts in /usr/bin, policy wants them in /usr/games
<siretart> and I'm using cdbs with python module. what would you recommend to "fix" my problem?
<tritium> siretart, have you checked the cdbs tutorial?
<siretart> yes, but havn't found something applicable
<tritium> https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial_2fCDBS
<tritium> Wow, that looks new...
<tritium> looks like my bookmark is outdated
<siretart> I could give distutils options, but now I'm at the docu of them, and I cannot find anything else than --prefix for setting paths..
<tritium> what about DEB_PYTHON_INSTALL_ARGS_ALL ?
<siretart> yeah, there I could say things like --force, but what should I say for manipulating the dir for scripts only?
<siretart> as said, I don't know distutils very well
<tritium> not sure, siretart
<\sh> http://kdelook.org/content/show.php?content=23479
<\sh> ian|static: fantastic work :)
<siretart> ah, found the option, but, how to give distutils setup.py a specific option to the install_scripts command?
<\sh> siretart: there is a doc on python.org for this
<siretart> \sh: yes, I have the manual already open :)
<siretart> yeah, found it in the distutil doku on python.org. thanks \sh!
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-01
<zul> heylo
<sivang> ls
<sivang> oops
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> you might want /names for here ;-)
<jmg> what is required to be able to modify specs on launchpad?
<jmg> Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page.
<wasabi> Permission. ;)
<sivang> anyone here that can upload a package?
<sivang> (it's laready been approved by slomo__ and jpatrick)
<sivang> I just want to upload an update
<sivang> lifeless: ping ^^ ? :)
<sivang> night all
<crimsun> sivang: sure, url?
<lifeless> sivang: sorry, right now am flat out
<lifeless> sivang: and I'd have to review the whole thing, third party oks aren't sufficient to upload to a buildd
* Hobbsee glares at ajmitch 
* Hobbsee waves to everyone else
<crimsun> hullo
<crimsun> well. Apparently the mysterious queue ate my upload. /me sighs and uploads again
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> death to all mysterious queues!
* Hobbsee whacks StevenK with a rubber mallet on her way out to work
<crimsun> ok, something is very, very broken, because it's simply dropping all my uploads.
<LaserJock> bummer crimsun, soyuz hates you
<crimsun> I guess so.
<crimsun> LaserJock: mind uploading the fix for #40408, then?
<LaserJock> crimsun: got a debdiff?
<crimsun> LaserJock: http://www.sh.nu/~crimsun/flashplugin-nonfree/
<FunnyLookinHat> Anyone here working on the network-manager-gnome package?
<LaserJock> crimsun: do I need to do debuild -S -sa on that to get it signed?
<crimsun> LaserJock: debsign it
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> crimsun: sure those are right? dput says the md5sums are right
<LaserJock> s/right/wrong/
<LaserJock> argg, whatever. It didn't work
<crimsun> what the...
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, a manual md5sum on the tarball is different then what is in your .dsc
<crimsun> dput should have failed on my system, then.
<crimsun> I just now used wget on a Debian system, and I get the same md5sum
<LaserJock> oh crap, just a sec
<LaserJock> crimsun: ok, I uploaded it
<crimsun> thanks
<LaserJock> crimsun: so how did you know that yours weren't going through?
<crimsun> LaserJock: I rebuilt -ubuntu2 as -ubuntu1 and attempted to upload it. I should have gotten a REJECT, but I got nothing.
<LaserJock> I just got an accepted email from Ubuntu Installer
<crimsun> great
<LaserJock> hmm, that is weird that your having problems
<crimsun> bddebian: well, don't feel so bad. You may not be marked a Ubuntu member, but at least you can upload. :-p
<LaserJock> lol
<bddebian> crimsun: :-(  You can't upload?
<bddebian> Man we are behind on vnc4
<crimsun> LaserJock: this is not the first time. This is actually the fifth or sixth time the upload infrastructure has been broken for me.
<LaserJock> bddebian: vnc4 needs major work :(
<LaserJock> bddebian: I tried, but it was just too messy for me
<bddebian> LaserJock: I know that's why I wondered if 4.1.1 from Debian would do any good
<LaserJock> bddebian: perhaps, last I knew though the big problem is is it ships its own X source
<crimsun> I _bet_ it's my key. Again. LP seems to have major issues with my GPG key.
<lifeless> have you filed a bug?
<crimsun> I filed one a while ago, it was marked fixed
<crimsun> I can file another one...
<LaserJock> the more the merrier
<LaserJock> right bddebian?
<TheMuso> c/
<bddebian> LaserJock: Absolutely :-)
<ajmitch> hm
* ajmitch obviously needs more RAM in this box
<ajmitch> Mem:      16621552     287288   16334264          0      63456     124072
<ajmitch> -/+ buffers/cache:      99760   16521792
<LaserJock> ajmitch: hmm
<bddebian> WTF should I do about all these merges?  They'll require UVF exceptions right?
<LaserJock> not if they are just new debian revisions, I don't think
<bddebian> These aren't new revisions
<ajmitch> most of them were filed months ago
<ajmitch> there needs to be a good reason to ask UVF exceptions
<ajmitch> more than just 'the bug is open'
<LaserJock> yeah, I wouldn't worry about them unless they are bug fixes
<bddebian> Sheesh
<bddebian> tsk, tsk, crimsun was supposed to merge insight :-)
<bddebian> Oh, scratch that, you reported it :-)
<bddebian> Oh, it's ajmitch's fault pyx isn't gonna make it.. :-)
<bddebian> Hehe, nice nick zerokarmaleft
<zerokarmaleft> bddebian: thanks
<ajmitch> describes me fairly well soon
<jmg> hahhahaha
<zerokarmaleft> it doesn't have anything to do with launchpad
<zerokarmaleft> but it's not like my karma cup runneth over in that respect either
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well get to work d00d :-)
<bddebian> zerokarmaleft: Well it's funny in both contexts here :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: I would, but you're fixing all the bugs
<bddebian> ajmitch: Sha, right.  I'm not even making a dent :-(
* ajmitch will be back soon, from uni :)
<bddebian> There's still over 5,000 unconfirmed bugs alone :'-(
<crimsun> hmph. gst now refuses to play certain media types.
<LaserJock> like what?
<crimsun> unencumbered m4as that I purchased from iTMS and ran through jHymn. They played fine just three hours ago.
<bddebian> Ugh
<ajmitch> how annoying
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm trying to figure out how to use ssh keys today :)
* LaserJock was apparently living in the stone ages
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Man, this sucks
<LaserJock> but bzr has a bug right now where you can't use password auth for sftp
<bddebian> I think EVERYTHING has a bug at this point :'(
<lifeless> bddebian: many bugs is normal. its less than one per package
* lifeless doesn't understand what the fuss is. for ubuntu, 64K bugs would STILL be only 4 bugs per package.
<crimsun> the good news is that it's not even one per package. the bad news is that some packages have a LOT of bugs. :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah in motuscience there are only something like 48 bugs for ~450 packages
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, why only 48? ;-P
<LaserJock> cause somebody clean house
<crimsun> hmm...could it be...bdd...
* LaserJock gives the MOTU of the month award to bddebian 
<bddebian> lifeless: It's not fuss, I just wish I could do some more significant stuff I guess.  I don't really know what I'm looking for or what to focus on half the time.. :-(
<bddebian> LaserJock: pfft
<crimsun> dude, triaging and your efforts are hugely significant
<lifeless> bddebian: well, there are two basic approaches, per-package, or time based triage
<bddebian> lifeless: Time-based?
<lifeless> I tend to do per - package. Like I'll pick a package and look at *every* bug in the package.
<bddebian> lifeless: And I usually try to hit any/all bugs for a package I "fix" if I can
<lifeless> bddebian: time based is when you do a custom search for bugs in all of ubuntu, for bugs that are 'unconfirmed' in oldest-first order
<lifeless> time based is harder because there is less context between the bugs
<bddebian> lifeless: Ah, well that's what I'm doing now :-)
<bddebian> >5600 Unconfirmed bugs :-(
<LaserJock> bddebian: just write some mass-confirm script ;-)
<bddebian> Heh
<LaserJock> akkk, my package doesn't build in dapper!
<LaserJock> No such file or directorypy to ./ .../bin/sh: /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch-run
<bddebian> w00t
<bddebian> There wasn't an /usr/X11R6/ symlink in Breezy was there?
<ajmitch> it would have been a directory then
<LaserJock> dang it, all of a sudden pbuilder doesn't like my dpatch rules or something
<bddebian> ajmitch: X11R6 existed in Breezy?  Are you sure?
<ajmitch> I may be wrong - it exists in my chroot but with very few files in it
<ajmitch> which would indicate that it was meant to be removed then
<bddebian> Well I know there is /usr/X11R6/lib which is symlinked but I thought everything else was gone
<bddebian> Does anyone have an /etc/alternatives/mozilla?  I don't
<crimsun> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 2005-10-25 14:03 /etc/alternatives/mozilla -> /usr/bin/mozilla-firefox
<bddebian> Weird, I wonder why I don't have one
<bddebian> Oh, I do, I can't type
<pschulz01_> I'm looking the a SVG Perl package... similar to 'libgd-gd2-perl'. I can do 'dh-make-perl --cpan GD::SVG' which almost works.. but no package is produced. (I'm using dapper).
<crimsun> oh ho, I see the gst issue.
<crimsun> gst, due to alsa dmix, will not play 48kHz files without a rate parameter, which requires a hand-modified ~/.asoundrc . I 'converted' the file to ogg vorbis, and I received the same gst error.
<bddebian> w00t
<crimsun> duh, I should have noticed that, being involved with audio and all...
<crimsun> ...except this is an alsa-lib issue, not gst. Blarg.
<bddebian> You can't know everything
<bddebian> You could be like me and not know anything ;-P
<crimsun> well, no, I _should_ know that. I first diagnosed this precise problem half a year ago.
<crimsun> I just didn't pay any attention to the original files' sampling rates.
<bddebian> Shit, 1am, I gotta get to bed.  Gnight folks.
<zakame> hi all
<crimsun> any MOTUs alive?
<jmg> crimsun: are you an alsa expert?
<crimsun> jmg: expert? I don't know if anyone besides Takashi or Jaroslav can be an expert
<jmg> crimsun: okay... let me rephrase..
<jmg> expert on alsa and ubuntu perhaps?
<crimsun> perhaps, what's up?
<jmg> well, i have an ice1712
<jmg> Hoontech DSP24 Value
<jmg> the volume slider doesnt affect the volume
<crimsun> mm, you need the envy*control
<jmg> ice1712 driver is not very good i know that
<jmg> crimsun: tried it... didnt help
<jmg> envy24control
<crimsun> even the one from alsa-utils_1.0.11?
<jmg> hmm
<jmg> I can go and give it a go
<jmg> again
<jmg> just a sec
<jmg> ok
<jmg> rhythmbox wont play at all
<crimsun> ok, is any sound audible?
<jmg> yeah, the ubuntu chime at start
<crimsun> and nothing afterward?
<jmg> beep can play
<jmg> but not rhythmbox
<crimsun> is beep configured to use oss, esd, or alsa?
<jmg> also no control in envy24control has any affect
<jmg> currently configured for oss, but alsa works
<jmg> alsa only works with default pcm device
<crimsun> ok. do you have multiple cards?
<crimsun> s/cards/sound devices/
<jmg> i have an onboard ac97 thats disabled in bios
<jmg> so it doesnt get discover1ed
<jmg> alsa is listing 3 devices
<jmg> ice1712 multi and 2 ice1712 consumer devices
<jmg> well not devices, i forget what the alsa term is... slots? or maybe the other way round
<crimsun> err, well, what does /proc/asound/cards list?
<jmg> 0 [DSP24          ] : ICE1712 - Hoontech SoundTrack Audio DSP24
<jmg>                      Hoontech SoundTrack Audio DSP24 at 0xec00, irq 185
<jmg> that's all
<ajmitch> yay, done with work for the day
<ajmitch> now for my other job..
<pschulz01_> Greetings.. is there a 'single signon' system for a ubuntu network? Does edubuntu support this?
<crimsun> jmg: ok, does ``amixer'' give you an error?
<jmg> crimsun: Nope, but it gives more options than you can shake a stick at
<crimsun> jmg: ok, so you've never used System> Preferences> Sound> Default sound card  (or asoundconf set [..] )
<crimsun> jmg: please pastebin the output from amixer
<jmg> crimsun: Stand by :)
<jmg> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12913
<crimsun> jmg: ok, is sound currently audible?
<jmg> yes but as i said volume sliders et al have no effect
<ajmitch> [    2.725265]  Brought up 32 CPUs
<ajmitch> [    2.725434]  Total of 32 processors activated (64001.81 BogoMIPS).
<ajmitch> excellent...
<crimsun> ajmitch: nice
<jmg> ajmitch: :D
<jmg> what is that? superdome?
<ajmitch> niagara
<jmg> niiiiiiiiice
<crimsun> jmg: so adjusting 'PCM' (after unmuting it) has no effect?
<jmg> got one of the test systems?
<ajmitch> 4 of them, bought
<ajmitch> 16GB RAM each
<jmg> did you use a t1 before that?
<jmg> wow
<ajmitch> nope
<jmg> my puny sgi 1100 with 4gb ram doesnt seem so cool now :(
<ajmitch> heh
<jmg> crimsun: sliders in volume control?
<jmg> neither master nor pcm does anything
<crimsun> jmg: using amixer or alsamixer, actually.
<jmg> i went through every slider in alsamixer and none of them did anything
<ajmitch> jmg: this thing is great for throughput, crap for any floating point code or stuff that's not heavily threaded
<jmg> it might be a routing thing?
<jmg> ajmitch: i know, i wanted to get one and run 64 tremor encoders on it
<crimsun> jmg: could be, can't investigate atm (heading to bed soon)
<jmg> ajmitch: and then go and stream an orchestra
<ajmitch> heh
<jmg> or the UN or similar event that could do with having boatloads of channels
<ajmitch> server room is nice & loud now
<jmg> are the niagras really loud?
<jmg> i thought they were supposed to be lo power consumption?
<ajmitch> they are, but they still have a reasonable noise level, and with 4 of them going..
<jmg> heh
<jmg> "low" is probably still what, 600watt?
<ajmitch> the cases mainly have fans at the front which create most of the noise
<ajmitch> CPU is meant to be around ~75W
<jmg> thats just cpu though
<ajmitch> each box we have has 2 2.5" drives
<jmg> aww
<jmg> cute :)
<ajmitch> my home pc probably has more power consumption
<jmg> heh
<ajmitch> (dual-core, 5 drives)
<jmg> hardcore.
<ajmitch> nice, I see davem has a "Suuuuuuper Seeeeekret Tree." implementing some of van jacobson's stuff that he talked about at LCA
<Gloubiboulga> morning Universe
<jmg> haha
<jmg> Seeeeeeeeeeekret
<ajmitch> it was one of the only talks to get a standing ovation I think
<jmg> A modest proposal to help speed up & scale up the linux networking stack?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> modest indeed
<ajmitch> it'd provide vast improvements on multi-core hardware
<jmg> pity my boss didnt let me go to lca
<ajmitch> quite a shame, it was very good this year
<jmg> especially when im in auckland
<ajmitch> it helped that I live 10 minutes walk away
<jmg> hah
<jmg> uhh
<jmg> did revu just go down?
<ajmitch> why do you say that?
<ajmitch> it appears to be working
<sivang> crimsun: still up for my package review and refresh upload?
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> sivang: probably the wrong time of day to ask
<sivang> ajmitch: ah, okay, what about you? :)
<sivang> (It's already been uploaded and approved by jpatrick / slomo)
* ajmitch is working on other stuff right now, sorry :)
<sivang> ajmitch: k, np, thanks anyway.
<ajmitch> seeing how long this box takes a build a kernel :)
<sivang> hmm, that's rather boring, isn't it? :)
<ajmitch> nice, about 8 minutes for a standard build
<slomo> sivang: is it that urgent? ;) just wait until it's out of NEW... and then get the new version uploaded
<ajmitch> hi slomo
<sivang> slomo: what difference will it be then then now? oh, and hi btw :-)
<slomo> sivang: the uploader would have something to diff against... now he would need to review to complete package again (in theory)
<sivang> slomo: ah, okay then.
<ajmitch> amazing how many posts on the local LUG list are about ubuntu at the moment :)
<ajmitch> including a few trying xubuntu on older hardware
<ajmitch> crap, no j2re or j2se for this platform
<dholbach> heya motu world!
<sivang> mornign dholbach
<dholbach> hey sivang
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<ajmitch> how are you?
<dholbach> hey ajmitch, fine - thanks
<ajmitch> great :)
<dholbach> just got a nice croissant with nougat and chocolate from the bakery and a coffee
<dholbach> yummy
<dholbach> how are you?
* ajmitch finally got ubuntu installed on another machine today - took 4 hours to install it
<ajmitch> I'm good thanks
<cbx33> 4 hours?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> slow cd
<cbx33> how so?
<cbx33> ahh
<ajmitch> and very slow console for installer
<ajmitch> 9600 baud, I think
<cbx33> crikey
<ajmitch> it's odd considering what the rest of the machine is like :)
<cbx33> i use VM ware now for most of my install testing
<cbx33> :)
<ajmitch> no way you could simulate this in vmware
<cbx33> heheh
<ajmitch> sun T2000
<cbx33> well not all of us are as hardcore as you ajmitch :p
<ajmitch> no need to be sarcastic
<cbx33> i work in a school
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> sorry ajmitch, wasn't trying to be sarvastic :p
<freeflying> how shall I change the source of pbuilder ?
<kelmo_lap> hi siretart
<siretart> hey kelmo_lap
<kelmo_lap> siretart, can i ask for some assistance please? to clean up and tag/discuss some wpasup bugs
<kelmo_lap> i have little good experience with the BTS . . .
<ajmitch> hi siretart, how are you?
<siretart> hey ajmitch - I'm fine, and you?
<siretart> kelmo_lap: sure. what is it?
<kelmo_lap> ok, lets see if the bug bot will work for me
<kelmo_lap> debian bug #304087
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 304087 in wpasupplicant "Subject: wpasupplicant not working with ipw2100 driver" [Important,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/304087
<lifeless> awesome
<kelmo_lap> i think fixed with: http://hostap.epitest.fi/bugz/show_bug.cgi?id=140
<kelmo_lap> which i have already ported to our 0.5 branch
<kelmo_lap> fixes wext with static wep keys
<kelmo_lap> i can port to 0.4.8 or we can wait for 0.4.9
<kelmo_lap> either way, we can tag that ticket as oending, i think
<siretart> wow
<kelmo_lap> s/oending/pending
* Mongoose is away: /_\ zzZzZZZZzz
<siretart> kelmo_lap: there is a shellscript called 'bts' in the devscripts package you can use
<siretart> kelmo_lap: try 'bts tag 304087 pending'
<kelmo_lap> ah cool, i shall read up on it, thanks
<siretart> it expects a local mta functional though
<kelmo_lap> hmm, i don't have that . . .
<kelmo_lap> control<at> i must use
<kelmo_lap> anyway, lets continue
<kelmo_lap> debian bug #295445
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 295445 in wpasupplicant "Subject: Please add hotplug support and driver autodetection" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/295445
<kelmo_lap> i think we disagreed on this one
<siretart> kelmo_lap: just a mom
<kelmo_lap> i don't like it one bit
<ajmitch> siretart: good thanks :)
<siretart> hostap #140 doesn't talk about static wep keying with ipw2100 - Are you sure these things are related?
* ajmitch has to get wpasupplicant & networkmanager working together again
<siretart> ajmitch: cool :)
<kelmo_lap> siretart, related to wext
<ajmitch> siretart: it currently just Doesn't Work :)
<kelmo_lap> don't matter what damn driver, just the wpasupplicant backend
<ajmitch> probably because I still have an old config file lying around
<kelmo_lap> feel free to test it yourself with our 0.5 branch on ya girlfriends ipw2100 laptop
<joelbryan> how do you use someone else patch and make derivatives of it?
<siretart> kelmo_lap: ah, i see
<siretart> kelmo_lap: If this really fixes the issue, I'd love to have this fix in dapper asap, since we are currently in deep freeze mode
<kelmo_lap> siretart, well, i can easily port to 0.4 branch tonight if need be
<kelmo_lap> trivial patch
<kelmo_lap> or you can, whatever
<siretart> a sec, boss in room
<kelmo_lap> hehe
<kelmo_lap> ajmitch, i've never attempted to use nm yet
<kelmo_lap> ajmitch, can you chosse interfaces to control and not to control via nm?
<kelmo_lap> choose*
<ajmitch> I don't know
<siretart> kelmo_lap: would be great, I'd happily test that patch on the affected laptop. she would be very thankful as well ;)
<kelmo_lap> siretart, just committed
<kelmo_lap> to stable branch
<kelmo_lap> please test
<kelmo_lap> if possible ; )
<siretart> thanks! will test it asap (most likely tomorrow)
<kelmo_lap> siretart, that patch was so important it also went straight into 0.3 0.4 and 0.5 branches of upstream cvs
<siretart> uuh. I see.
<kelmo_lap> not many people must use wpa_supplicant for wep ; )
<siretart> ok. spotted the patch, it is a 4-liner, will test it asap
<kelmo_lap> debian bug #354388
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 354388 in wpasupplicant "Subject: wpasupplicant: please recompile with madwifi-dev" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/354388
<kelmo_lap> that is not valid
<kelmo_lap> my new madwifi packaging does not and will not include a -dev package anymore
<siretart> we have 2 options: either close it with explanation, or, if you think that ppl will reopen it anyway, mark it 'wontfix'
<kelmo_lap> i will close it then
<siretart> I agree
<siretart> if they reopen (or refile dupes), we can mark them wontfix anyway
<kelmo_lap> debian bug #350963
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 350963 in wpasupplicant "Subject: wpasupplicant: wait-for-interface option -w does not work anymore" [Normal,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/350963
<kelmo_lap> his argument was refuted on the hostap mailing list
<kelmo_lap> oh
<kelmo_lap> anyway, its not really pertinent to the package now
<siretart> kelmo_lap: could you perhaps post a link to the bugreport to the relevant links on the mailing list?
<kelmo_lap> if i can find them . . .
<siretart> :)
<kelmo_lap> one last thing, then i'll leave you alone
<kelmo_lap> in 0.5 branch, i began putting the code in the ifupdown script into functions
<kelmo_lap> to make it more readable
<kelmo_lap> if you agree with that style, then i'd like to throw it into the stable packaging at some stage too
<siretart> like in, -4?
<kelmo_lap> up to you, thats why i ask
<siretart> hm
<siretart> considering that we are currently in deep freeze for dapper, I'd prefer focused patches to trunk/
<siretart> is it only refactoring or are there functional changes as well?
<kelmo_lap> refactoring will allow functional changes to be integrated with greater ease
<siretart> hm. I'd like to compare the to scripts first
<kelmo_lap> i don't want to maintain two vastly different scripts for too long
<siretart> me neither
<kelmo_lap> well, they are not much different
<kelmo_lap> but you know what i mean . . .
<siretart> I understand. sure
<siretart> hm. the refactoring makes very sense
<kelmo_lap> siretart, looks much better now huh?
<kelmo_lap> easier on the eye
<kelmo_lap> especially for people looking at it for the first time
<siretart> right
<siretart> I'm happy to test it. lets put it to trunk, and I'll cherry pick fixes for the next ubuntu upload
<kelmo_lap> thanks
<kelmo_lap> and thanks for your time too, siretart
<siretart> no problem. :) thanks for your work on wpasupplicant :)
<siretart> I'm just annoyed about Felix :/
<kelmo_lap> ah, i am over it now
<kelmo_lap> forget about that guy
<kelmo_lap> if he wants something to be done, he needs to attach code with his whingy emails
<kelmo_lap> because i think we are both way past satisfying that guy ;-)
<siretart> maybe. But I still don't want to appear like an bad maintainer
<kelmo_lap> what you are doing is fine
<kelmo_lap> it is impossible to do what every single bug reporter wants you to
<kelmo_lap> but this guy is just a bit too persintent, and testing some nerves
<kelmo_lap> that is all
<kelmo_lap> we will get that roamin solution when we have a chance (and we are not replying to the same thing every other day)
<kelmo_lap> roaming*
<siretart> maybe you're right
<kelmo_lap> originally i was going to start hacking on one straight away, but then the wifiroamd project was born
<kelmo_lap> so i guess that effort should be backed
<kelmo_lap> siretart, well, hopefully the small patch will fix that static wep key issue, i am pretty confident it will, but of course cannot be sure about driver specific problems
<kelmo_lap> siretart, if it does, we can tag that changelog entry
<kelmo_lap> later
<kelmo_lap> apologies for all the noise motu's ;-)
<ajmitch> hah, as if talking about packaging is going to be off-topic
<siretart> so, I'm out for lunch
<siretart> bye!
<kelmo_lap> siretart, forgot to discuss one other thing before, but that can wait until after dinner ;-)
<kelmo_lap> siretart, also, we should end this poisonous mailing list thread . . .
<siretart> you're right. I should finally focus on my thesis here
<kelmo_lap> yes, that is far more important
<pygi> someone update and ask for UVFe libsdl please ? 
<dholbach> I'm going to file a bunch of bug reports with the the prefix [UNMETDEPS]  in a bit and subscribe motu to them
<dholbach> that way it should be easy to get a list and them fixed for release
<dholbach> which is good
<dholbach> YAY!
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
* Hobbsee steals StevenK's fingers
<StevenK> OW!
<StevenK> I need those to fix bugs!
<StevenK> Besides, typing with my nose is annoying.
<Hobbsee> oops!
<Hobbsee> i meant "keyboard" not "fingers"
<StevenK> Heh.
<StevenK> Now I can't type at all. :-(
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Mithrandir> just use gok
* TheMuso decides to stand at the door and hand everybody foam protection suits so that Hobbsee can't do any damage to anyone.
<TheMuso> Or maybe something a bit thicke.
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Mithrandir sprays foam at Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> not like i'd be able to do much damage anyway - i should be worried about you all doing damage to me
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: getting picked on again? :)
* Hobbsee accesses the secret stash, and sprays capsicum spray at Mithrandir 
* Mithrandir goes to wikipedia to see what capsicum is.
* Hobbsee has heard that the police use it
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> Some.
<TheMuso> I'd rather eat them
<TheMuso> THe red ones in particular.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<StevenK> Capsicum spray isn't really capsicum.
<Mithrandir> good thing I had a helmet on, then
<StevenK> Capsicum spray is vile, and *hurts*.
<StevenK> Dear me. Must have been something we said.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: haha
<Hobbsee> it timed out, for some reason - it's done it before
* Hobbsee wonders if there's a rotten new exploit out
<Mithrandir> there's one which instantly panics your box, at least
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> yes, but i'm using the workaround for that
<Mithrandir> "not having local users"?
<Mithrandir> at least of the kind you don't trust.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> no, only one user on this machine, and thats me
<StevenK> Mithrandir: The ip multicast bug?
<Mithrandir> StevenK: yep
<StevenK> That's a fun DoS.
* Hobbsee wonders what that is
<StevenK> Hobbsee: "ip r g 224.0.0.1 iif eth0"
<StevenK> With a 'dev eth0' in there.
<Hobbsee> ah right...
<Mithrandir> you don't need dev eth0, do you?
<StevenK> I'm unsure, and I don't really want to try it. :-)
<Mithrandir> it worked without eth0 when I tried it on my test box.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | We are in feature freeze now. Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DhIconCacheChanges and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu
<zul> heylo
<dholbach> ok, so if y'all search for UNMETDEPS in Launchpad's bugs, we should have a little list of bugs that should mostly be a rebuild
<dholbach> (and I fixed the bug with the wrong subjects in the meantime) :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: yeah, thanks, I'll get rebuilding
<ajmitch> I've assigned a bunch of zope* bugs to myself :)
<dholbach> rock on - Karma love for you!
<ajmitch> waiting for syncs, and need to upload some python evils
<ogra> sivang, congrats
<zakame> hi MOTUs ! :D
<ogra> Accepted upbackup 0.0.1 (source)
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: some of the uninstallable packages are xubuntu ones
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: you guys don't seam to default subscribe your team to those packages, do you?
<dholbach> xfce4-wavelan-plugin for example
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, some plugins are not suscribed to the Xubuntu team, I'll add them
<dholbach> rock on
<dholbach> hope those uninstallables are easy to fix
* dholbach hugs Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> the uninstallable plugins are the ones which have not been ported to the new panel yet
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> i see
<Gloubiboulga> not really easy to fix, and it's upstream job...
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, do I have to do anything technically before starting uploads
<Gloubiboulga> like getting my gpg key signed
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: um
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: you don't have a key on launchpad yet?
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, it's on
<dholbach> sounds good
<dholbach> try it :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: if we remove zope2.7, can we subscribe 'ubuntu-archive' to the bug and look into getting it done?
<Gloubiboulga> ok, I have a few in progress bugs, it's time to upload :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: or when is the removal planned?
<dholbach> GO Gloubiboulga, GO GO GO!
* zakame hugs Gloubiboulga
<StevenK> I wonder if remove-packages.py actually works now.
<ajmitch> dholbach: #39631
* Gloubiboulga hugs zakame back
<dholbach> bug 39631
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39631 in Ubuntu "sync and removal requests: zope*" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39631
<dholbach> ajmitch: thanks - then close the bug - it has no point
<ajmitch> ok
<sivang> ogra: ?
<sivang> ogra: ah ;-)
<sivang> ogra: Well, already pending a fix. I need someone to upload the new fixed packaged, which I already uploaded to revu for ease of check and retrival :)
<sivang> ogra: and thanks :)
<sivang> is everything okay with revu?
<sivang> it does not respond anymore.
<Gloubiboulga> groovy, my first upload has been accepted :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello Gloubiboulga
<zakame> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<bddebian> Ohh, vnc4 4.1.1 from Unstable builds and installs.. Hmm
<carthik>  :)zakame, thanks for taking on the streamtuner bugs
<zakame> carthik: hey, no problem
<zakame> I'm preparing a patch as soon as I get my upload privs back, courtesy of malone 41102 :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41102 in qprocd "Could not upload any Universe packages; email parsing bug?" [Major,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41102
<bddebian> zul: ping
<zul> bddebian: pong
<bddebian> zul: Caught up yet? ;-P
<zul> bddebian: no i was watching the hockey game last night
<zul> im a canadian and its the play-offs ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<zul> its quiet today
<bddebian> Yeah, you better be working ;-P
<bddebian> Heya cbx33
<cbx33> hey bddebian
<zul> i will when i get home :P
<bddebian> Heya Seveas, highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi bddebian!
<Seveas> hi Boo 
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Hmm, why would cacti bring in apache and apache2 packages?
<FunnyLookinHat> On latest updates:
<FunnyLookinHat> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/xserver-xorg_7.0.0-0ubuntu31_i386.deb: subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 2
<ogra> FunnyLookinHat, there is really no need to spam all ubuntu channels with it
<FunnyLookinHat> ogra,  only sent to devel and motu, wasn't sure where it should go.
<ogra> to launchpad
<FunnyLookinHat> kk
<dholbach> yeah, file a bug.
<ogra> 32 is already building with the fix since 1h so you'll surely find a bug about it
<sivang> re
<bddebian> wb sivang
<sivang> hey bddebian , anything broken already ? :)
<bddebian> sivang: xorg apparently but I didn't do that one ;-P
* bddebian opens the floodgates of -motu ML
<sivang> bddebian: I would be scared if you have, MOTU is not dealing with xorg as it's in main right?
<bddebian> Aye
<sivang> bddebian: care to upload a fixed version of upbackup for me in a couple of seconds?
<tuxmaniac> bug 41305
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41305 in scilab "Scilab version is old, new stable version is 4." [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41305
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: D00d, keep dreaming :-)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Why this?
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: Need UVF exceptions for all your "new" packages :-)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Yeah!!! I got it :( I know what you mean also!
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: Actually they are fairly self contained so you could file UVF bugs for them
<farruinn> Does setting up a new pbuilder environment usually take a while? It's been on "Checking component main..." for quite a while
<farruinn> Ignore my question - it just wasn't being verbose about downloading stuff
<sivang> bddebian: I've uploaded a fixed version to revu, will you be able to review and upload?
* sivang needs to become a MOTU
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Am off now! And will not be in IRC Tomorrow mostly as I am travelling :) See ya
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: did you package scilab 4?
* tuxmaniac says Scilab is not free software!
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: You want me to ? I can do it
<tuxmaniac> But I thought I will get MAgic up!
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: dude, I think scilab4 is going to be a beast
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: did you get any reviews from xcircuit on REVU?
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Not yet! HAve some errors on Lintian but the previous package also has the same!
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: yeah, there is some stuff that needs to be taken care of, if I have time I'll try to do a more thorough review and make a comment
<tuxmaniac> thank u! LaserJock  I am still new to packaging! So the more the revoew points more helpful it would be
<LaserJock> yes,  learn by doing
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Oh my god.. Scilab is really gonna be one!!!
<LaserJock> MOTU is a great place to learn to package
<tuxmaniac> helluva lot of features added also !!
<tuxmaniac> But LaserJock Does everybody know that Scilab is _Not_ free software! It was pointed out by one of my friends
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: yeah, that is why I wasn't too keen on packaging 4
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: :))
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Octave?
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: what about it?
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Nothing! I was thinking something and typed something
<LaserJock> k
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: HAve to leave now! Will be pretty late on IRC tomorrow!
<LaserJock> cya tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Bye
<LaserJock> ya know, sometimes I could just strangle Mr. Gates :/
<LaserJock> I but a new motherboard in the HP I bought in 2002, now Windows XP refuses to recognize my key
<FunnyLookinHat> How do I clear or remove a specific package from my downloaded cache?
<LaserJock> FunnyLookinHat: I usually just go to /var/cache/apt/archives and rm it
<FunnyLookinHat> LaserJock, sweet thanks
<bddebian> Heya jaldhar
<LaserJock> howdy bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<freeflying-ibook> can anyone close bug 34996
<LaserJock> freeflying-ibook: you can't?
<freeflying-ibook> LaserJock: howw to do it?
<LaserJock> freeflying-ibook: mark it "Fix Released" or "Rejected"
<freeflying-ibook> LaserJock: thx
<bddebian> Gawd I hate it when work gets in the way of my Ubuntu work.. :-)
<Tonio_> hi everyone ;)
<Gloubiboulga> hey Tonio_ :)
<bddebian> Heya Tonio_
<Tonio_> ;)
<sys8794> if someone packaged captive-ntfs what are the chances it could get included in a dapper flight?
<zul> isnt that the binary only driver?
<ogra> zero ?
<sys8794> it is a script written to r/w to ntfs
<sys8794> there is already a lice cd (trinity rescue kit) that uses it, however since ubuntu is my fav I was wandering if there was a way to get that included ?
<tseng> chances of a brand new experimental module loading proprietary ms code going into a dapper install cd post beta:
<tseng> "not gonna happen"
<tseng> feature freeze was a long time ago, and kernel freeze has past
<sys8794> ok well I hadnt had a chance to keep up with all of the deadlines I have been out of country (with no access) for last 8 months. Now I am back where I have access trying to make things happen so thought I would ask
<tseng> you missed the boat for dapper unfortunately
<sys8794> no worries actually it will give me time to package and test, and include in beta on own, and if I can create a stable encior then I will try for next flight so we can get it included
<sys8794> encior-envior (short for enviorment:)
<pef> hello
<Gloubiboulga> hi pef !
<pef> Gloubiboulga: salut, j'ai bien recu ton mail ;)
<Gloubiboulga> pef, ok, a me tenait  coeur de te prvenir :)
<pef> c'est sympa :] 
<dolson> yay, I just got a job offer as a Perl developer
<dolson> I guess I gotta go learn Perl now
<LaserJock> dolson: I feel sorry for you ;(
<dolson> lol
<dolson> Whatever dude, I haven't had a job since December
<dolson> I'm just glad I don't have to move to another city now
<sivang> LaserJock: why? among us there are people who has to do PHP for a living ;-)
<LaserJock> arggh, you all just need to go into the sciences where we use *real* languages like Fortran
<tseng> sivang: hah-hah
<dolson> I like PHP, but I don't have a choice here
<dolson> at least they will allow me to run Ubuntu on my system at this place :)
<LaserJock> I only know a little python and fortran :/
<zul> *shudder* fortran
<LaserJock> I've had a hard time getting my advisor to let me use python instead of Fortran
<LaserJock> but we still use it for most everything
<Gloubiboulga> MOTUs, if we have a bug in ubuntu for foo_1.4-1, and debian's foo_1.4-2 fixes it, can we just sync the package?
<LaserJock> my advisor almost had a fit when he bought us all iMacs and then realized that they don't have g77
<bddebian> Gloubiboulga: If it is just a revision update for a bug fix, yes afaik
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: yes, if it builds ok, etc.
<Gloubiboulga> ok, so do I just upload the package (after testing it), or is there something else to do for syncs?
<bddebian> Oh no
<bddebian> File a sync request bug on LP
<bddebian> Unless you need to make Ubuntu changes, then you can upload
<Gloubiboulga> ah ok
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<Gloubiboulga> thanks LaserJock
<Gloubiboulga> and bddebian :)
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: you made MOTU? !!!
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, yep :)
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: congrats!!
<Gloubiboulga> thanks LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> I think I finally got all the NEW packages in I wanted, and removed all the ones I wanted :-)
<bddebian> Oh cool, so xcircuit got in? :-)
<dholbach> bye everybody
<highvoltage> bye dholbach!
<dholbach> bye highvoltage
<crimsun> bye daniel
<dolson> bye dholbach
<dholbach> bye dolson, crimsun *wave*
<crimsun> yay, I have the same issue as zak
<crimsun> and we'll both be using the same hackaround for soyuz :(
<crimsun> err, :)
<bddebian> :-(
<crimsun> it's a good thing -- we can both upload again :)
<bddebian> Oh, cool
<LaserJock> ackk, my virtual machine ate my network connection
<uniq> i've made a patch for bug 41547, (url in bug comment) can someone review, apply and upload fix?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41547 in kbanking "[UNMETDEPS]  xsim has unmet dependencies" [Normal,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41547
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-02
<LaserJock> uniq: you might try #kubuntu-devel
<freeflying-ibook> uniq:is it in main?
<uniq> it's a motu package in universe. and it's on the priority list https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=unmetdeps&orderby=-datecreated&search=Search
<freeflying-ibook> uniq: I can review it for you
<uniq> freeflying-ibook: no, it's on dholbacks list of unmet deps packages. very MOTU imho.
<uniq> well, the patch adds a >, not much to review. But sure.
<zul> heylo
<LaserJock> hi zul
<zul> hey LaserJock
<allee> hi, I've a bug in malone, and right now preparing the bug report for upstream bts.  Upstream told me to keep him up to date
<allee> Now I'm ponder if it's okay to create a  lauchpad account for upstream (asking upstream before of course) and subscribe this account to bugs that are upstream bugs.
<allee> this would keep upstream automaticly informed in case more info gets added to malone.
<allee> Or are there other ways better achieve this?
<lifeless> yup
<lifeless> get upstream to make their own account ;)
<lifeless> then you can subscribe them to those bugs
<lifeless> do upstream have a bts ?
<allee> lifeless: okay is there a naming conventions  like  <product>-upstream  or <product>-devel
<lifeless> allee: no, accounts are for *people*
<allee> lifeless: yes KDE bts (and I add a lauchpad link when KDE bts bug is filed)
<lifeless> allee: what sort of updates was he/she asking for ?
<allee> lifeless: we were hunting https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/digikam/+bug/34462  on #digikam channel
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 34462 in digikam "Digikam deletes EXIFs when auto-rotating on import" [Major,Confirmed] 
<allee> lifeless: yeah, but upstream are several people.  3-5 in this case
<lifeless> creating an account for a list is wrong
<allee> lifeless: all digikam bugs in KDE bts are send to digikam-devel ml
<lifeless> allee: so, when you file it upstream, they will get mail.
<lifeless> allee: I'm trying to understand what 'upstream' want to happen here
<lifeless> then I can advise how to make malone do that
<allee> lifeless: upstream told me: keep me inform, send debug output etc
<lifeless> allee: once its filed upstream, you should be doing that in the upstream bts though
<lifeless> allee: thats what *upstream* means.
<jmg> hi all
<allee> lifeless: I'll do this in KDE bts.  But what happens when other see the malone bug and add infos to the malone bug, then
<lifeless> allee: the bug is tagged upstream. So other know to go to the upstream bts.
<allee> a) I've to tell them please use upstream bts or b) forward it myself
<allee> checking ...
<lifeless> allee: there are two choices here. you can use the upstream bts, or malone, as this bug gets fixed.
<lifeless> if you use malone, and upstream want to be involved, then they need to use malone
<lifeless> given that you are saying this *is an upstream bug*, its entirely appropriate that you use the upstream bug tracker.
<lifeless> malones upstream bug watch will synchronise data from the kde bts eventually, though it doesn't right now.
<allee> heh, develish: for marked-as-upstream don't allow additional comments, redirect to upstream bug URL instead ;)
<lifeless> :0
<lifeless> hmm, digikam product isn't linked tothe source package
<lifeless> allee: is it still stable in dapper ?
<allee> is a product created automaticly?  I vaguely remember that I started long ago to add it but when bazarr came into play aborted
<lifeless> you created the product
<lifeless> its a little stale, just updating it
<allee> lifeless: for cameras without gravity sensor, yes.
<lifeless> is it still the stable release that we package in dapper ?
<allee> yes
<allee> lifeless: but there's 0.8.2-beta1 that better than 0.8.1 (I've a half finished UVF for it  + digikamimageplugins later)
<allee> UVF not finished because I could convience upstream to look into the exif-list bug (fixed in devel trunk already, for of future 0.9 release)
<jmg> 41678
<jmg> #41678
<lifeless> bug 41678
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41678 in ispellcat "Please sync with Debian unstable" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41678
<jmg> heh
<jmg> crimsun
<crimsun> jmg: hi
<LaserJock> oh sweet, irssi is sponsoring SoC projects
<jmg> dont know if i should bother you with alsa stuff
<crimsun> jmg: I'll be in a much more suitable timeframe to look at alsa stuff in an hour
<jmg> ok
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<zul> heylo
<ajmitch> hi
<zul> how is it going ajmitch?
<ajmitch> good, how are you?
<zul> good
<jmg> if network-manager is interfering (i think) with my bootup, wheres the right place to file a bug?
<jmg>  /etc/init.d/networking start after bootup will fix the problem. hmm
<freeflying> ajmitch: ping
<ajmitch> yes? any reviews must wait, i'm at work
<freeflying> ajmitch: not reviews, heh, can I ask for sync from sid now
<ajmitch> you can, but why ask me?
<freeflying> ajmitch: thanks, just wanna confirm from you that can ask for now.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<dolson> hi
<bddebian> Hello dolson
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> hello dolson
<dolson> hi zakame
<dolson> zakame: I got a job today, did you hear? :D
<bddebian> dolson: Cool, congrats :-)
<zakame> dolson: w00t! :D
<zakame> dolson: good for you, now its my turn to find a job :)
<dolson> bddebian: I thought you were here earlier when I said it :D
<dolson> zakame: yeah, I'm a Perl developer starting Monday. I get to install Ubuntu on my workstation. And now I'm looking for a good book on learning Perl
<bddebian> dolson: I sorta was but I was swamped at work so I didn't say anything :(
<zakame> dolson: now, double w00t! I'm doing Perl too... I have the Llama, second ed
<crimsun> dolson: the ora.com cookbook & learning perl are good
<dolson> bddebian: ;) it's all good. I hope that I can pull it off
<dolson> crimsun: thanks bro, I'll check out the ora one (I already bookmarked Learning Perl)
<crimsun> zakame: it seems you and I are triggering the same soyuz bug with '.' ;)
<bddebian> Who reviews the MOTU UVF requests?
<zakame> crimsun: looks like it
<crimsun> bddebian: the uvfe team (sire,slom,dholb)
<zakame> a workaround would be to update my key's UIDs, right? add a "Zak Elep" without the B...
<crimsun> zakame: just make sure your display name and your changeslist name both have no '.'
<crimsun> zakame: that's the workaround that cprov recommended to me
<zakame> ah, ok
<crimsun> like I have to use "Daniel T Chen" instead of "Daniel T. Chen"
<dolson> oh no, it's Beginning Perl that I bookmarked
<zakame> but anyhow, celso's already doing the fix :D
<crimsun> yeah
<bddebian> Hmm, to attempt to look at bugs at this hour or not...
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<dolson> how does Yelp work, exactly? if I install something like postgresql-doc-8.1 does it show up docs in Yelp, or do I have to browse to the files and such?
<crimsun> it's unlikely that pgsql's docs will show up in yelp by default, since yelp is gnome-centric
<crimsun> you'll more than likely need to use info, man, and $PAGER in /usr/share/doc/postgresql-doc-8.1
<dolson> oh, there it is
<dolson> I just tried it and it does show up
<crimsun> ah, excellent.
<dolson> yeah, I'm impressed :D
<dolson> go to System > Help > System Documentation to launch Yelp, then go to Applications > Programming, and it lists it there. Pretty slick stuff
<crimsun> cool
<dolson> ooh, Yelp has bookmarks too. I love this.
<XhyldazhK> hi all
<XhyldazhK> i have... kind of a request...
<XhyldazhK> i'm a chicken scheme user, but i've found that chicken in dapper drake is 1.63, that is ancient (2004 or earlier)
<XhyldazhK> there is a chicen source .deb in debian unstable, currently i'm compiling it
<XhyldazhK> please update chicken, it shouldn't be very hard
<XhyldazhK> the one in debian unstable is latest one, 2.3
<crimsun> we're two months past upstream version freeze.
<XhyldazhK> oops
<XhyldazhK> sorry...
<lifeless> XhyldazhK: that means, that unless there is a serious bug in chicken, we'd rather not update it
<lifeless> because we'll run the risk of *adding* bugs.
<lifeless> we can make exceptions, there is a process.
<XhyldazhK> ok... but it will be updated in system updates / next version?
<crimsun> in dapper+1, yes
<lifeless> you can file a bug on chicken in dapper now if you like, as a memo
<lifeless> but it *should* be automatica.
<XhyldazhK> well is not a bug, its simply that 1.63 cannot use chicken 'egg' modules in static linking and 2.2+ can
<XhyldazhK> automatica?
<lifeless> s/a\./\./
<crimsun> XhyldazhK: are these modules already packaged in dapper?
<crimsun> (I don't know anything about chicken, sorry)
<XhyldazhK> nope... they are installable via a program that is included with chicken
<XhyldazhK> it downloads them and installs them
<crimsun> if it were to install 1.63 now, would said modules be usable by default, or is extraordinary effort required to make them work?
<crimsun> s/if it/if I/
<lifeless> crimsun: what are you trying to ask ?
<XhyldazhK> 1.63 can use those modules, only cant make a statically linked executable using them
<crimsun> lifeless: if the current package is unusable (as in the older version of gtk-gnutella, say), then that's viable for a UVFe request
<XhyldazhK> what is a problem for me because i'm developing for the gamepark holdings gp2x using a compiler installed by myself and using a cross-compiled chicken installed by myself(2.3) in addition to the 'normal' chicken 1.63
<XhyldazhK> now that I speak, for dapper+1 a cross compiler for gp2x would be great
<dolson> XhyldazhK: is there one in Sid?
<XhyldazhK> sid = unstable?
<dolson> XhyldazhK: debian unstable, yeah
<crimsun> XhyldazhK: ok, as long as 1.63 is usable at least with those modules, then the impetus to file a UVF exception is much lower
<XhyldazhK> yes, i know...
<XhyldazhK> if that's not possible i will simply post somewhere the method to get ht updated chicken deb
<dolson> XhyldazhK: if there is a gp2x cross-compiler in debian unstable/sid, then it should be in ubuntu edgy automatically, but if not, then someone has to package it
<crimsun> (never fear, dapper+1 is only a bit over one month away)
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> no one? :)
<crimsun> hi ivoks
<crimsun> & Hobbsee
<ivoks> hi crimsun
<Hobbsee> hi crimsun
<ivoks> crimsun: did you wrote any spec?
* Hobbsee has finished playing with the antialiasing settings, which were changed for some reason, and has changed them back to be something readable :D
<ivoks> crimsun: i tried to contribute something, but I guess that owner has to put me in Contribute list, right?
<crimsun> ivoks: I haven't yet, no
<ivoks> ok
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> wb all
<zakame> what's up with malone 28810?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28810 in kdrill "undeclared dependency on libXp6" [Major,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28810
<Unfrgiven> hi all!
<highvoltage> hi :)
<Hobbsee> hi Unfrgiven and highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi Hobbsee
<zakame> hello Hobbsee highvoltage Unfrgiven
* Hobbsee waves to zakame 
* highvoltage waves to zakame too
<highvoltage> public holidays++
<slomo> zakame: ping?
<zakame> slomo: pong, what's up? =)
<slomo> zakame: regarding bug #6004... please look bug #6003
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6004 in xvidcore "Changed CFLAGS for a speed increase." [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6004
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6003 in transcode "Changed CFLAGS for a speed increase." [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6003
<slomo> zakame: so don't do it ;)
<zakame> slomo: ah, thanks for the heads-up ;-)
<slomo> zakame: np :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | We are in feature freeze now. Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h (MOTU bugs) and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DhIconCacheChanges and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS)
<dholbach> unmetdeps went from 91->85
<dholbach> rock on!
* Hobbsee examines the page
<Hobbsee> 85 hey?
<zakame> wtg
<dholbach> and that was on i386
<dholbach> i suppose there are more around on amd64 and powerpc
<dholbach> it'd be nice if we could clean those up
<dholbach> most are easy rebuilds
<dholbach> and others might be just stuff we might want to remove
<dholbach> or sync from debian
<Hobbsee> dholbach: ping?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: pong
<dholbach> i'm here :)
<Hobbsee> bug 41535 - that package can now be removed from the repos, it's depreciated with kde 3.1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41535 in konq-shellhere "[UNMETDEPS]  xsim has unmet dependencies" [Minor,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41535
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> i followed up on the bug
<dholbach> i'd rather like somebody from the kubuntu camp to get that done
<Hobbsee> oh, didnt see that
<dholbach> i don't want to be blamed for removing kubuntu packages :)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: well, i'm more from the kubuntu side, adn i'm telling you that you can remove it...that okay?
<Hobbsee> :P
<dholbach> no :)
<dholbach> I want somebody to justify and present it to 'ubuntu-archive' team.
<Hobbsee> damn.  i'll raise it in our meeting tomorrow then
<dholbach> ... somebody else than me.
<Hobbsee> *wonders how to do that*
<dholbach> just say: it's obsolete, functionality is nowadays in blah, makes no sense, package has no rdepends, remove it please.
<Hobbsee> how can you see if anything relies on the package?
<dholbach> apt-cache rdepends <something>
<Hobbsee> gotcha
<dholbach> rock on
<Hobbsee> nothing, great.
<Hobbsee> gets justified in the bug report?
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> and subscribe 'ubuntu-archive'
<dholbach> and make the bug description a bit more telling :)
<dholbach> <-- my fault
<Hobbsee> hehe gotcha
<dholbach> but as I said in my mail to ubuntu-motu, the bug in the script is fixed now
<dholbach> so next bug massfiling will be happier :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> dholbach: okay, done that one :)
<dholbach> nie!
<dholbach> nie!
<dholbach> nice!
<dholbach> ...
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> ni!  to you too
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach in return :)
<Hobbsee> er...for bug 41564 the package doesnt seem to exist on my system...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41564 in illuminator "[UNMETDEPS]  xsim has unmet dependencies" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41564
<ajmitch> that's the source package name
<ajmitch> binary packages are on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/illuminator/0.9.1-3
* ajmitch hugs dholbach & Hobbsee as well ;)
<Hobbsee> ooh, more hugs!
<dholbach> hey ajmitch :)
<Hobbsee> gotcha
<ajmitch> hey daniel, how's it going?
<dholbach> fine, thanks
<dholbach> just trying to look into a gok segfault
<ajmitch> sounds nasty
<Hobbsee> ooh goody...i think i can fix this one too...
* Mongoose is away: /_\ zzZzZZZZzz
<kelmo_lap> moin siretart
<siretart> hey kelmo_lap
<siretart> kelmo_lap: I uploaded something based on r370 to ubuntu for fixing the wext issue
<siretart> kelmo_lap: there are quite a lot of reports in NM which I think will be fixed by this
<kelmo_lap> siretart, sure there would be
<kelmo_lap> siretart, cheers for verifying that on the ipw2100 hardware, i do not have ipw2100 available to me
<siretart> :)
<kelmo_lap> r370 or r320?
<siretart> err, the one just before you refactored the ifupdown script
<kelmo_lap> ok, 320
<siretart> I didn't get to thorough testing of the new script
<siretart> ok
<kelmo_lap> i would like to push a new upload, but would appreciate testing/advocating of the "refactored" script
<kelmo_lap> siretart, wouls that be possible for you todo sometime in the next week or so?
<kelmo_lap> s/wouls/would
<siretart> kelmo_lap: I see that I get at week end to it
<siretart> kelmo_lap: a quick test showed me that it works
<siretart> but since we are in deep freeze for dapper, I'm more conservative with uploading there than to unstable
<kelmo_lap> sure, you have every right to be
<kelmo_lap> siretart, the other thing a didn't get a chance to say, madwifi-ng is on the verge of experimental (rotting in NEW), the madwifi-includes patch i already have in preparation for our experimental branch
<kelmo_lap> siretart, but we could make another choice
<kelmo_lap> siretart, on second thought, probably not
<kelmo_lap> siretart, again, i'd like to test your thoughts on that issue
<kelmo_lap> heh, as i ask, a bug is filed with an interesting patch
<kelmo_lap> debian bug #365014
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 365014 in wpasupplicant "Subject: wpasupplicant: Patch for supporting madwifi-old and madwifi-ng in parallel" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/365014
<kelmo_lap> hmm, interesting
<siretart> kelmo_lap: err
<siretart> kelmo_lap: I don't get it quite, I think. Why don't we just keep the madwifi-old headers in the package, and let the madwifi-ng users just use wext?
<kelmo_lap> siretart, that was my "second thought"
<StevenK> Is wext less sucky than supplicant?
<kelmo_lap> siretart, i would be happy todo that until as madwifi upstream, i declare madwifi-old dead
<kelmo_lap> siretart, which could be as soon as 2.6.17
<siretart> and why do you want to switch the headers from madwifi-old to madwifi-ng at all?
<siretart> I understand that it is for madwifi-old users only anyway
<siretart> wb kel ;)
<kelmo_lap> sorry, my sesion timed out
<kelmo_lap> +s
<kelmo_lap> _always_ happens mid-conversation
<kelmo_lap> never when its quiet
<siretart> gnar
<siretart> f
<siretart> why do you want to switch the headers from madwifi-old to madwifi-ng at all? I understand that we need the driver backend 'madwifi for madwifi-old users only anyway
<kelmo_lap> siretart, i said yes, we should do exactly that, until madwifi-old is oldr than old, when it becomes madwifi-dead
<kelmo_lap> soon it will be cactus ; )
<kelmo_lap> siretart, but like i said before, i am extremely wary about supporting both madwifi and madwifi-ng private ioctls, like suggested in the new bug
<siretart> kelmo_lap: even if it becomes dead, the header is gpl'ed, and it doesn't harm
<kelmo_lap> siretart, i use madwifi-ng on 2.4.32
<kelmo_lap> siretart, there is no wext there
<siretart> kelmo_lap: I completly understand. and now there is the new fact, that madwifi-ng is happy with wext, so the bug report gets sort of 'invalid'
<siretart> oh
<siretart> but didn't you say that madwifi-ng would work with wext?
<siretart> aah, not on 2.4. I see
<siretart> hi Fuddl :)
<Fuddl> hi siretart
<kelmo_lap> siretart, yes i completely agree with you in some ways
<kelmo_lap> siretart, but in other ways i take a different rtain of thought
<kelmo_lap> s/rtain/train
* Amaranth does a little dance
<kelmo_lap> siretart, as you can already see, I am already telling the reporter of the new bug that madwifi-ng supports wext, therefore no extra patching is required
<kelmo_lap> siretart, but in a way, as a madwifi admin, i feel like madwifi-ng should have full support at some stage
<kelmo_lap> siretart, just at the right time ; )
<kelmo_lap> siretart, so thanks for your input, i think we can agree that since wext support is there, we can leave things as they are for now, ok?
<siretart> kelmo_lap: I completely agree.
<siretart> kelmo_lap: I suppose that there are still many users out there who don't want to switch to madwifi-ng (yet). I'd like to provide them with a working wpasupplicant as well
<kelmo_lap> siretart, sure, but i don't like patches to support both
<siretart> and for those who run madwifi-ng, there is wext. So only 2.4 users with madwifi-ng are in the cold, right?
<kelmo_lap> siretart, no matter how good these patches are
<kelmo_lap> siretart, because upstream already rejected such ideas
<siretart> if upstream doesn't support that, we needn't either
<kelmo_lap> good
<kelmo_lap> siretart, 2.4 users, and users of <=2.6.13
<kelmo_lap> will be "in the cold"
<siretart> I think that should be the minority. or become the minority in the foreseeable future
<siretart> we cannot satisfy everyone anyway
<kelmo_lap> well, when madwifi-old ceases to exist, i will change my tune
<kelmo_lap> my point was: this is happening much sooner than i anticipated
<kelmo_lap> did ubuntu just commit some persistent net renaming to their udev package or so?
<siretart> I think it is there for some time.. You may want to ask Scott (Keybuk) for that, he cares for udev
<sivang> can anyplease check if he can install a package named "upbackup" ?
<sivang> that's the HomeUserBackup package, that has been already uploaded 2 days ago but for some reason did not appear
<sivang> it alreayd came out from NEW as I recived 'Accepted' message
<sivang> anyone an idea?
<freeflying> sivang: can not
<sivang> freeflying: what do you get?
<freeflying> sivang: no package
<freeflying> sivang: seems it's atill in NEw queue
<sivang> freeflying: I see
<sivang> freeflying: thanks
<freeflying> sivang:  :)
<zakame> hi all
<trappist> if I assign a bug to motu-reviewers, is motu-reviewers implicitly subscribed to the bug?  It doesn't seem to be getting any attention (bug 36051)
<bddebian> Heya gang
* Hobbsee waves tiredly to bddebian 
<bddebian> :-)  Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
* Hobbsee is not here
<Hobbsee> this is a script, pretending to be hobbsee :P
<bddebian> heh
<Hobbsee> wish the script would find her phone, and figure out the correct time for the alarm though
<Yagisan> G'day all
<bddebian> Heya Yagisan, how's things?
<Yagisan> bddebian: not to bad. short of cash though
<bddebian> Yagisan: Who isn't? :-)
<Yagisan> bddebian: looks like my ddns provider has disappeared tonight. damm that is annoying.
<Amaranth> ooh, azureus
<LaserJock> mutt doesn't come with an addressboook, right?
<Spec> I have a .changes file I want to upload to my apt repository sitting elsewhere, I have dput set up to use scp, but when I do dput GANGES blah.changes, I get a traceback, for file in changes.dict['files'] .split('\n'):  KeyError: 'files'
<webwolf_27> nothing going on here
<LaserJock> webwolf_27: not much
<webwolf_27> I noticed
<webwolf_27> so now I'm gonna go check #mysql
<crimsun> webwolf_27: most of us are in exams or working
<webwolf_27> but say, there is a debian package that I want to port to breezy and dapper, who do I put in as the packager?
<webwolf_27> crimsun, I done with exams, and haven't found a job yet :(
<LaserJock> webwolf_27: you would probably just add a new changelog entry
<crimsun> webwolf_27: it exists in debian but not in dapper?
<crimsun> s/dapper/ubuntu/
<webwolf_27> dapper I haven't checked yet but it's not in breezy
<webwolf_27> avidemux
<Gloubiboulga> it's in dapper
<crimsun> Binary: avidemux
<crimsun> Version: 1:2.1.2-0.0ubuntu1
<crimsun> we just approved a uvfe for it, heh
<webwolf_27> ok, and how do I get it for breezy
<crimsun> take the dapper package and build it in a breezy pbuilder
<crimsun> dapper srcpackage, that is
<webwolf_27> crimsun, of course source package
<webwolf_27> when I finnally get a few of my own projects finished I'll package them too
<LaserJock> so I'm interested to see what happens with the SoC. I wasn't around for the last one but seem like a lot happened
<phanatic> hi people
<Gloubiboulga> hey phanatic :)
<phanatic> hello Gloubiboulga :)
<bddebian> Hello phanatic
<phanatic> hey bddebian
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<phanatic> hi raphink
<raphink> hi phanatic
<zul> bbl
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-03
<ppirrip> motd
<tseng> aotw
<zul> heylo
<ajmitch> hey zul
<zul> hey ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi zul and ahm
<LaserJock> ajmitch i mean
<zul> hey laserjock
<ajmitch> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> ajmitch: do you use mutt?
<ajmitch> I do
<Hobbsee> hi LaserJock and zul
<Hobbsee> and ajmitch
<LaserJock> what do you use for an addressbook?
<ajmitch> I don't
<Hobbsee> he remembers all the addresses :P
<LaserJock> not even aliases?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> why would I send anyone mail? ;)
<LaserJock> hmm, well then you're no help ;-)
<ajmitch> yeah, I'm just useless :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<LaserJock> well, the lack of an addressbook is my only real complaint with mutt ATM
<LaserJock> I got abook, which seems nice, but it doesn't do groups apparently
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee, btw
<ajmitch> yes, hello Hobbsee :)
* ajmitch is getting forgetful in his old age
<Hobbsee> why do i get teh feeling that someone's laughing at me?
<ajmitch> I'm not
<Hobbsee> or that i should change my nick to TigerlikeHobbsee or something...
<Hobbsee> :P
<ajmitch> LaserJock may be laughing at you, but he's not showing it
* LaserJock is preoccupied trying to figure out how to make a 58 person group alias in mutt
<Hobbsee> run an rm -rf on the email addresses - simple solutoin
<LaserJock> and reading an email from a guy who is going to give the doc-team a 3 part email about how we have it all wrong
<ajmitch> LaserJock: those sort of emails are great
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> gotta love them
<LaserJock> apparently he spent lots and lots of time trying to find documenation on setting up a networked printer via CUPS
<LaserJock> and then says we are doomed to become another OS/2
<LaserJock> I can only hope that somewhere in the pages and pages that he has to say that there will be something useful to learn
<zul> mmmm...os/2
<zul> yessss!!!
<ajmitch> zul: ?
<zul> watching hockey....ottawa just scored...and scored again
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> soccer and hockey are two sports I just haven't really been able to get into. There isn't enough scoring I think
<_jason> k, so I am trying to build a package.  I finally found one that seems to be easy.  I'm trying to figure out the depends because the docs don't mention any and tried using the 'objdump -p' command listed in the debian manual.  However, I am getting things like nxclient which really don't seem to be needed for something like http://www.stellingwerff.com/?page_id=10
<_jason> oops, not the manual, I meant to say the new maintainer's guide: http://www.us.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html
<_jason> oh my question: Any advice? :P
<LaserJock> _jason: usually you can look at the website or the INSTALL or README file to get an idea of the dependencies
<zul> LaserJock: in hockey?!
<LaserJock> zul: yeah, it's like usually like 1-5. I'm used to basketball and football where the scores are much higher, makes it seem like more is happening ;-)
<bpuccio> LaserJock: that's easy, assign each goal in soccer 5 points, that is sort of what they do in football
<bpuccio> I find football too slow, too much stop and start and stop
<_jason> LaserJock: I can't find anything in those files nor on the site.  It does have an 'autopackage' though.  Would that usually contain some information about the dependencies?
<LaserJock> bpuccio: yeah, stupid Americans. We just like to fool ourselves ;-)
<zul> LaserJock: because you multiple everything like 7 in football so it looks like there is more scoring ;)
<bpuccio> ha! I am an American :D
<LaserJock> zul: but it isn't just multiplying by 7. You can score 1,2,3, or 6
<LaserJock> makes for more combinations and strategy
<zul> LaserJock: i dont have the attention span for football
<LaserJock> zul: hmm, that is what I was thinking about hockey :/ Maybe it is just what we grew up with or something
<zul> LaserJock: yeah probably...my dad was watching football when i was born i never really got into it
<LaserJock> actually it took a buddy at school to get me interested. Once I got into the season and was following team and had a better grasp of the rules, etc. it became a lot more interesting
<_jason> ok different question, after running dh_make, my control file has Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}.  It is intended that I manually replace that, correct?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch, LaserJock
<ajmitch> _jason: depends on what else you need
<bddebian> Man, this xsim is REALLy pissing me off
<zul> wohoo...another goal
<ajmitch> bddebian: work on something else then
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> ajmitch: It's a pride thing now :-)
<bddebian> Heya zul
<ajmitch> there's too many other packages out there that need fixed before release to waste time now :)
<zul> bddebian: xsim is like from 2003 see if there is another version and file a uvf
<ajmitch> (says the one who's sitting wasting time)
<_jason> ajmitch: so the `` ${shlibs:Depends}}, ${misc:Depends} '' stays in there and I just add to it with commas?  or maybe there is a good reference for this, I feel like these are basic questions I should be able to read about somewhere
<whiprush> hi aj
<ajmitch> hey whiprush
<whiprush> ajmitch: had a great fspot talk this past weekend.
<bddebian> zul: There is a new release in Debian but even though it says it fixes the issue, it doesn't
<ajmitch> _jason: yes, shlibs is used for those library packages you build-depend on
<ajmitch> whiprush: sweet, how'd it go?
<whiprush> perfect, until the very end, it just crashed.
<ajmitch> _jason: you may not need misc:Depends
<ajmitch> whiprush: wonderful, got any decent info for a bugreport?
<whiprush> so I did a bit of XGL to make them forget.
<ajmitch> haha
<whiprush> no, it was on some other laptop.
<ajmitch> distract them with shiny bling
<bddebian> heh
<whiprush> it was probably my fault, I had copied over my .gnome and whatnot over
<whiprush> probably some cruft in my config
<ajmitch> probably not
<whiprush> fspot crashes are rare for me
<ajmitch> at what stage did it crash?
<whiprush> doing an effect.
<whiprush> you select the picture
<whiprush> and click "b&w" or whatever the effect was
<whiprush> oh, my friend has the presentation on video
<whiprush> I'll just show you sometime.
<ajmitch> hm, b&w worked for me
<whiprush> other than that at the end, people loved it
<ajmitch> I'll check the video
<ajmitch> sweet
<whiprush> I did my usual "who here knows about fspot?" question
<whiprush> and there was like, no one.
<ajmitch> they do now
<whiprush> well yeah
<whiprush> I would think though, that by now people would be all over it
<whiprush> every time I give a talk though, no one seems to know.
<ajmitch> hopefully in main for edgy
<ajmitch> we'll see
<whiprush> and I've been giving the same talks in my area for 2 years.
<whiprush> ajmitch: unf...
<ajmitch> probably replace gthumb
<whiprush> hopefully.
<whiprush> i don't dislike gthumb
<whiprush> fspot is just so sweet though
<ajmitch> yeah, but having 2 apps for the same task in the desktop seed would suck
<whiprush> indeed
<ajmitch> hopefully the gphoto issues with canons will be solved soon
<whiprush> gthumb does do "browsing directories" better though
<ajmitch> true
<whiprush> fspot makes you import and stuff
<ajmitch> f-spot isn't setup for filesystem browsing
<whiprush> gthumb just goes where you want it to and doesn't care about your photo library and all this stuff.
* whiprush nods
* ajmitch has a few bugs to sort through in malone for f-spot
<whiprush> ajmitch: snag me this weekend and make me triage
<whiprush> need to get /something/ done this cycle. :D
<ajmitch> sure :)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Oh fsck xsim
<ajmitch> whiprush: what arch were you running the demo on?
<whiprush> i386
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> I just saw there's a mono bug about it on ppc
<bddebian> Hmm, reject or backport to breezy?
<bddebian> Bug #24185
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 24185 in xorg xserver-xorg "cannot find 'fixed' font after upgrade" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/24185
<ajmitch> backport what?
<ajmitch> and asking MOTUs about what to do with X bugs is dangerous :)
<ajmitch> hey bmonty
<LaserJock> hi bmonty!
<bddebian> ajmitch: He is talking about Breezy
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<ajmitch> bddebian: I wouldn't reject a bug just because it talked about breezy
<bddebian> ajmitch: I wasn't going to reject it, I was going to backport to breezy
<ajmitch> you asked if you should reject it
<bddebian> Well I meant reject because it seems like a configuration issue, or at least fixable
<bddebian> And this one looks like an explosion waiting to happen :-)
<bddebian> Bug #26682
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 26682 in evms "EVMS does not work with MD" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/26682
<lifeless> ouch
<lifeless> thats like the dependency on udev that was missing
<lifeless> fortunately I only use evms with lvm, not md
<ajmitch> looks like it's solved now
<ajmitch> for x in bbr bbr_seg bsd disk dos drivelink gpt lvm2 mac md multipath; do
<ajmitch>         copy_exec /lib/evms/${EVMS_VERSION}/${x}-* /lib/evms/${EVMS_VERSION}
<ajmitch> done
<bmonty> hi ajmitch and bddebian!
<Hobbsee> hi bmonty
<bddebian> ajmitch: So you can close it?
<bmonty> hey Hobbsee
<ajmitch> bddebian: you can if you want :)
<ajmitch> I couldn't bear to take that karma away from you
<bddebian> D00d, you are the one that found out that it was fixed
<ajmitch> no, I just checked the file listed
<ajmitch> ask wasabi if you see him to check if it's really fixed
<bmonty> Malone #41523, I think this package should be morgued, does anyone think otherwise
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41523 in realplayer "[UNMETDEPS]  realplayer has unmet dependencies" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41523
<wasabi> hi
<bddebian> ajmitch: There's wasabi now :-)
<ajmitch> bmonty: s/morgued/removed/
<ajmitch> wasabi: bug 26682
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 26682 in evms "EVMS does not work with MD" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/26682
<wasabi> Yeah that ones fixed.
<ajmitch> thanks
<wasabi> Checking if the OTHER one is fixed. ;)
<bmonty> ajmitch: whatever...I think it is a useless package
<bmonty> should I subscribe the archive admin team to the bug so they can remove it?
<bddebian> wasabi: Can you close that please?
<ajmitch> might as well
<ajmitch> bddebian: too late
<lifeless> bmonty: wtf does 'be morgued' mean ?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Ah, good man :-)
<bddebian> lifeless: Removed from the archive
<ajmitch> lifeless: it means that a package is removed, a common misuse of the word
<bddebian> bmonty: I agree :-)
<bmonty> ajmitch: morgued != removed ?
<ajmitch> bmonty: nope
<bmonty> what is the difference?
<ajmitch> kamion can explain :)
<lifeless> bmonty: a package-version that is not published is in the morgue
<ajmitch> the morgue is a place where old packages go
<wasabi> Bah I don't even know how to close bugs in this thing.,
<lifeless> bmonty: it does not mean that the package is no longer in the distro
<ajmitch> wasabi: it's horribly non-obvious
<ajmitch> you have to click on the link evms (Ubuntu)
<bddebian> wasabi: Click the package name hyperlink
<wasabi> Ahh.
<wasabi> Makes sense, actually, just not obvious. ;0
<bddebian> bmonty: I thought morgued == removed too..
<bmonty> lifeless: makes sense, thanks
<bmonty> gotta make sure I use the right terminology :)
<wasabi> Haha. Still don't see a close button in here.
<wasabi> fix commited maybe?
<ajmitch> wasabi: set the status to fix released
<wasabi> Already set.
<bddebian> wasabi: fix released
<ajmitch> right, that's because I closed 26682 :)
<bddebian> karma thief ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes, I am, I'm a bad bad person
<ajmitch> welcome back, Hobbsee :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Bah, we love you
<bddebian> wb Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> no you don't :P
* bddebian hugs ajmitch
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you dont want to be loved?   :P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I do, of course
<Hobbsee> oh, misread it
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: there are 10171 bugs open. that's more than last week
<bddebian> ajmitch: I know
<bddebian> :-(
<bddebian> Some of these bugs are just crazy though...
<ajmitch> like bug 37247?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 37247 in asterisk "asterisk deb + files in /var/run" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37247
<ajmitch> more imake magic
<ajmitch> oops
<ajmitch> bug 37427
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 37427 in mxv "FTBFS: missing headers or build-dependencies" [Major,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37427
<bddebian> ajmitch: No, like: Bug #27525
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 27525 in rrdtool "php4-rrdtool: Use of RRD extensions (graph only?) causes Apache to segfault" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/27525
<ajmitch> exciting
<bddebian> Oh, You need to read it :-)
<bddebian> Do we expect every xorg/hardware combo to work out of the box without any user intervention?
<ajmitch> no idea
<bddebian> Bug #28898
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28898 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "IBM A21p display is corrupted" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28898
<ajmitch> you have a thing for X bugs today?
<bddebian> I'm just trying to help, sheesh
<ajmitch> I know, I'm just wondering why you're targetting X :)
<zul> night
<bddebian> ajmitch: I'm just going in order :-)
<bddebian> Damn, I need a PPC and an amd64 :-)
* ajmitch has amd64
<ajmitch> the ppc downstairs gets used for OSX too often
<jamessan> Seveas: is your updated Bugzilla plugin for Supybot available somewhere?
<bddebian> I think this should be rejected?  Bug #29326
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 29326 in sudo "User removed from /etc/sudoers after update to Dapper" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29326
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon, imbarry ;-P
<imbrandon> hello
<imbrandon> ;)
<bmonty> bddebian: if it is true that nothing modifies sudoers, I think that bug should be rejected
<bddebian> Well I would think Matt Z would know :-)  Though I don't know why he didn't reject it?
<lifeless> is sudoers a config file
<lifeless> if it is, it could be replaced
<bmonty> maybe ask the submitter to verify what Matt Z asked for, and if no response reject it
<bmonty> lifeless: yes, sudoers is the config file for sudo
<lifeless> bmonty: I know that. 'config file' in this context is the dpkg term
<lifeless> meaning its owned by the package, and can conflict if locally edited etc
<bmonty> lifeless: ahh...good question, I don't know
<bmonty> ajmitch: malone #41521, the package creates a python2.3-rpy that needs python2.3-numeric which is no longer in the archive, should I modify the package to only make the python2.4-rpy package?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41521 in rpy "[UNMETDEPS]  rpy has unmet dependencies" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41521
<bddebian> Do we care that guile won't configure in Mingw32??
<bddebian> bmonty: I think I looked at that one :-)
<ajmitch> bmonty: if you wish
<bddebian> Gah, I am tempted to reject any bugs with over 50 lines pasted directly in the message, just on principle :-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: sounds good to me
<bddebian> ajmitch: Do we care that guile won't configure in Mingw32?
<ajmitch> not particularly
<ajmitch> what bug is that?
<ajmitch> never mind, I found it
<ajmitch> honestly, filing a serious bug because he can't cross-compile it?
<ajmitch> welcome back Hobbsee_
<bmonty> bug number?
<ajmitch> bug 29742
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 29742 in guile-1.6 "guile fails to configure within the MinGW environment" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29742
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<Hobbsee> hmmm...looks like i need to ghost...
<LaserJock> wb Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: You gonna reject it? :-)
<bddebian> WTF is a PATA disk?
<bddebian> Parallel ATA?
* Hobbsee waves again to bddebian 
* bddebian waves back
<Hobbsee> your yakuake package is great for instruction :P
<bddebian> ?
<Hobbsee> the dh_iconcache thing
<bddebian> Ah :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: hmm, I initially though you said a PITA disk :-)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Might be :-)
* Hobbsee snorts
<Hobbsee> arent all disks like that?
<bddebian> Pretty much
<LaserJock> that is what I was thinking
* Hobbsee demands that her machine BUILDS FASTER!!!
<ajmitch> heh :)
<LaserJock> I wiped my drive and installed Dapper beta
<LaserJock> and today I installed pbuilders and chroots for sarge, sid, dapper, breezy
<Hobbsee> ooh fun!
<bddebian> Install doesn't use parted does it?
<bmonty> good night everyone
<bddebian> Gnight bmonty
<LaserJock> bddebian: what do you mean? d-i or ubiquity?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: got rid of one of those dhicon changes packages...
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Nice
<bddebian> LaserJock: Dunno, submitter doesn't specify.  It's pretty vague actually:  Bug #32778
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 32778 in parted "ext2 not formatted correctly" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32778
* bddebian feels so loved
<ajmitch_> bddebian: but you are
<bddebian> Yeah right
<bddebian> Damn I'm glad I don't use synaptic.  Ugh
<ajmitch> how so?
<LaserJock> oh, I really like synaptic
<bddebian> Too much information.  I like my old "apt-get" :-)
<LaserJock> I'm trying to learn aptitude, but it usually ends up confusing me too much
* Hobbsee continues fixing the packages :P
<Hobbsee> seeing as they're kde ones, and all..probably worth doing...
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i think you killed the chat...
<ajmitch> we can revive it
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> it was me?
<ajmitch> yes
* LaserJock starts to dance and sing
<ajmitch> now you're just scaring everyone
* LaserJock stops singing and dancing and gets back to trying to figure out ssh-agent
<Hobbsee> hehe!
<ajmitch> heh
* Hobbsee FINGERS IN EARS!
<bddebian> hehe
<ajmitch> no, I'm not about to sing
<Hobbsee> no, you'd have to be okay singing...but LaserJock...
* LaserJock votes for Hobbsee to lead the MOTU song
<Hobbsee> heh..dream  on...
* Hobbsee is not a MOTU :P
<ajmitch> we'll make an exception :)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you can't be one until you sing the MOTU song ;-)
<ajmitch> haha
* Hobbsee is iconcache fixing, and therefore cant sing
<Hobbsee> haha....just watch me
<LaserJock> oooohhh, touche
<Hobbsee> oh second thoughts, *dont* watch me - it's unnerving, being stared at :P
* LaserJock stares over Hobbsee shoulder from thousands of miles away
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you want to stare at my computer screen?  you wont see much...IRC, msn chat, couple of terminal windows, firefox
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: hmm, your right. not terribly exciting
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> you need to spice it up a bit
<Hobbsee> er...how?
<ajmitch> XGl. shiny stuff
<ajmitch> gnome ;)
<Hobbsee> eww!  no!
<Seveas> jamessan, ping
<dholbach> good morning MOTU world!
<ajmitch> morning daniel
<dholbach> hey Andrew
* Hobbsee waves from her spaceship
* dholbach waves from the orbital laser platform
<Hobbsee> hehe
* ajmitch waves from his hideout under a bridge
<Hobbsee> hehe
* imbrandon waves from inside tron's program
<dholbach> hey antinobody
<dholbach> everybody welcome antinobody
* Hobbsee waves to antinobody 
<dholbach> he wants to get involved in the MOTU team
<imbrandon> welcome ;)
* tuxmaniac waves to antinobody 
<dholbach> it'd be nice if somebody could introduce him to do some easy stuff, like rebuilding packages for the UNMETDEPS run or something
<dholbach> something to sink his teeth in and get started
* imbrandon could use some easy stuff too ;)
* Hobbsee hands antinobody a biscuit :P
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> hehe...so could i...
<Hobbsee> check out those dh_icon changes...tehy're not too bad...
<Hobbsee> done 9 of them today :D
* tuxmaniac says best way to get involved is to hang around the IRC channels and help around with certain issues and you will suddenly find yourself active in Ubuntu Community
* ajmitch still has 8 to upload :)
<antinobody> Oh hi
<dholbach> Hobbsee: nice work
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: yeah, exactly
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: get to it, hehe :P
<ajmitch> yes ma'am
<Hobbsee> oh, i know why you're doing this...
* tuxmaniac also did the same way!
<dholbach> somebody could tell antinobody how to the dh_iconcache thing for one package - to simply start off
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you're just delaying so i'll get frustrated, and so go for motu myself?  :P
<dholbach> that'd be nice
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: me? never..
<Hobbsee> ;P
<antinobody> that would help indeed
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: besides, I've still got to do a nice, strict package review for you :)
<Hobbsee> antinobody: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html <-- packaging guide, very useful, worth bookmarking :)
<Hobbsee> heh...that sounds scary...
<ajmitch> it's not, you know that
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DhIconCacheChanges has a list of packages that need to be modified
<dholbach> antinobody: ^ just grab one of the universe/multiverse ones and start off :)
<dholbach> with   apt-get source <package>    you can grab the source
* Hobbsee would probably suggest having a bit of a readthru of the packaging guide, which tells you about all the versioning, etc, which is oftne needed
<dholbach> and have a look at the debian/ dir
<antinobody> I'll give it a shot
<antinobody> no promises though, such things scare me
<dholbach> they shouldn't
* Hobbsee will go and update the ones that she's done
<dholbach> the debian/ directory is "the packaging"
<imbrandon> you'll get it in time, i'm still learing a bit
<dholbach> you will see that it mostly has a structure you can understand :)
* Hobbsee took the lazy way of updating that wiki page :P
* Hobbsee advises everyone not to take the ones directly below hobbsee, cos they're the ones i'll do next...
<dholbach> antinobody: Hobbsee and ajmitch are our dh_iconcache experts, they can surely help you
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: said he hadnt done one, i thought...
<Hobbsee> although i guess he's seen mine...
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, i'll do the 2 j2re if you like/wasent planning on doing them right away
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that's cool, i'll continue working down from where i was...
<imbrandon> kk
<ajmitch> dholbach: you mean Hobbsee is
<Hobbsee> it goes start hobbsee, hobbsee, more hobbsee, hobbsee, end hobbsee :P
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> see how busy she's been today?
<Hobbsee> i shoulda started in that darned meeting this morning...
<Hobbsee> woulda been a better use of time :P
<ajmitch> would have kept you awake :)
<Hobbsee> oh i stayed awake for the whole time...
<ajmitch> by some miracle
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: do you need me to keep my sources for that stuff, or the debdiffs are fine, and i dont have to touch them again?
<ajmitch> debdiffs are fine
<Hobbsee> my ~/devel/iconcache folder is getting rather full hehe
<ajmitch> :)
<imbrandon> gnome.mk is the only thing that needs to be changed about the debain rules on these ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: no, dh_iconcache is
<imbrandon> ok
<dholbach> imbrandon: you have debian/rules with gnome.mk?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: http://pastebin.com/686542 is the debdiff (which is now uploaded)
<imbrandon> k thanks
<Hobbsee> and i had a look at dholbach's yakuake to figure otu that much :P
<imbrandon> hehe
<dholbach> imbrandon: does the debian/rules you look at use gnome.mk?
<imbrandon> no i was looking st the list email
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> if a package uses gnome.mk or xfce.mk, it just needs a rebuild
<imbrandon> kk
<dholbach> because those cdbs script take care of it
<ajmitch> a shame the kde.mk wasn't changed
<antinobody> at the rate Hobbsee's nabbing these, I'm probably best off starting at the bottom...
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> she'll probably finish those in a few minutes as well :)
<dholbach>  antinobody: please don't hesitate to ask
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> antinobody: no...i do actually have to build them....and that tends to take a while...
<antinobody> I know, I know, it was a joke
<antinobody> Still, I'm thinking of starting a ways down the list anyway
<antinobody> You could have magical powers and all
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> antinobody: start at the bottom of the k's, adn go up, if you like
<Hobbsee> there are still an *awful* lot of k's there
* Hobbsee starts on kdeaccessibility
<antinobody> I'm on okle...that's technically a k, sort of
<antinobody> same idea
<dholbach> antinobody: the idea is to modify   debian/rules
<dholbach> antinobody: which is sort of the "Makefile" of a package
<dholbach> it has all the instructions of what to do to go from source to a package
<dholbach> in this series of changes   dh_iconcache   is added to it
<dholbach> in the right place... :-)
<dholbach> but Hobbsee and ajmitch can tell :)
<Hobbsee> hmmm?
* Hobbsee takes the risk of killing her system
<ajmitch> and me?
<ajmitch> what have I done now?
<Hobbsee> still here?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: no
<Hobbsee> right, excellent.
<Hobbsee> thought my system was going to freeze
<Hobbsee> antinobody: you never realise quite how slow your machine is when you do this :P
* Hobbsee demands that her machine build FASTER!
<antinobody> Hey my names sean too!
<Hobbsee> :)
<sean> I did?
<sean> Oh, wait...that explains so many things at once
<sean> At least I know why I have the same name as me
<Hobbsee> hi raphink
<ajmitch> hello raphink
<Hobbsee> raphink: sleep well?
<Gloubiboulga> salut raphink
<raphink> hi ajmitch && Hobbsee
<raphink> slept quite weel thanks
* Hobbsee gives up, and builds both at once :P
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> now do i dput these ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: you dont, you use a debdiff...
<Hobbsee> debdiff *.dsc > foo.dsc
<raphink> salut Gloubiboulga
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: then email it to one of the lovely motus, and try to poke and prod them into uploading it for you :P
<imbrandon> ummm *looks confused at this point* ... ok , and i am supose to be building this with debuild -S -sa ?
<imbrandon> ahhh ok
<raphink> Hobbsee: I wouldn't recommend doing since, less you might get confused with names
<raphink> using .debdiff is recommended ;)
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i was told, use debdiffs :P
<Hobbsee> hehe...well, yeah..not foo
<imbrandon> kk np
<Hobbsee> in our computing class a while ago, someone went and asked what foobar was :P
<StevenK> Hobbsee: FTP Operation Over Big Address Records (RFC 1639)
* Hobbsee kills off the second one
<Hobbsee> haha
* Hobbsee jumps on StevenK before she can be jumped on
<ajmitch> hello StevenK
* StevenK waves.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you're just encouraging him :P
<Hobbsee> hmm...that's probably true
<StevenK> Heh heh
<StevenK> I don't encouraging.
<StevenK> Er, need
<Hobbsee> heh
<StevenK> If I didn't need to pick my wife up, I'd go take a nap. :-/
<Hobbsee> StevenK: caffeine fixes all
<StevenK> I've had 1L of coke today already.
<ajmitch> already?
<ajmitch> that's barely a start
* StevenK kicks ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey now
* StevenK cackles at units.
<StevenK> You have: lead
<StevenK> You want: gold * 1.0519553
<antinobody> I should probably figure out where dh_iconcache goes...
<Hobbsee> hi Seveas
<Seveas> hiya
* Hobbsee gives up, and cleans out her pbuilder
<antinobody> Hobbsee:  I bet if I knew what you were doing, I'd feel bad for you
<Hobbsee> antinobody: i was running out of space - i had 400MB left, earlier today :P
<Hobbsee> oh crud...this will take a while...
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, ok now whom do i mail this diff too ;) lol
<Hobbsee> er, not me..
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: any of the motu's...the ones who are awake are useful
<antinobody> Hobbsee:  I remember not feeling ignorant at one point
<ajmitch> or attach it to a bugreport on malone, assign it to motureviewers
<dholbach> imbrandon: Gloubiboulga, StevenK, ajmitch and I seem awake :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> dholbach: I'm on the edge ;)
* Hobbsee pokes ajmitch - stay awake, you!
<ajmitch> ouch
<Hobbsee> have the other 8 got uploaded yet?  :P
<ajmitch> no, I haven't checked them all :P
<Hobbsee> poor.
<imbrandon> k give me a few more min i'll get both these diffs done before i try to mail them
<ajmitch> I know..
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% mount | grep -c pbuilder
<StevenK> 14
<StevenK> Hrrrrm
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: probably worht emailing one of them to a motu and checking if it's right...then just do a whole lot, and email a whole bunch of them to a motu :P
<imbrandon> heh true
<imbrandon> dholbach, wanna slip me your email ?
<dholbach> imbrandon: fire away
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: dholback@ubuntu.com most likely...
<imbrandon> k
<dholbach> dholbach@ubuntu.com
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> sorry for being pedantic :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> oh darn.
* StevenK ponders rejecting bug #6424
* Hobbsee always seems to read the nicks wrong :P
<Hobbsee> StevenK: which one is that?
<StevenK> Ah, no Ubugtu
<StevenK> Bug #6424:
<StevenK> Getmail is not quiet when using Spamassassin
<Hobbsee> Seveas: who ran away with ubugtu?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: does someone need a key to do dev work?
<imbrandon> sent dholbach
<imbrandon> key ? like gpgkey ?
<imbrandon> everyone should have one anyhow ;)
<ajmitch> you need a key to upload anything
* imbrandon learned howto upload to revu the other day
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yes
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: antinobody does not have a gpg key...
<ajmitch> antinobody should generate a gpg key then :)
<imbrandon> he can make one
<imbrandon> it dosent have to be a "SIGNED" key ;)
<Hobbsee> true
<dholbach> other way: if you want to get stuff uploaded to universe/multiverse: you can file a bug and assign to motureviewers
<dholbach> that works too
* ajmitch said that :)
<Hobbsee> ah ok, so you an
<dholbach> oh yeah... well: as ajmitch said, then
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> did that look correct dholbach
<imbrandon> this would be my first one to along with antinobody lol
<imbrandon> i've built packages etc etcetc just not for motu
* Hobbsee is off for dinner...
<imbrandon> l8tr Hobbsee
<dholbach> imbrandon: not arrived yet
<dholbach> Hobbsee: bon apptit
<Hobbsee> fortunately, this will build while i'm away :D
<imbrandon> ouch actualy it just got kicked back
<Hobbsee_away> imbrandon: i'm still waiting on mine to be signed....
<dholbach> Hobbsee_away: where do you live again?
<imbrandon> yea i have been lazy also and havent gotten mine signed either lol
<imbrandon> ok dholbach sent to the correct email addy this time
<Hobbsee_away> dholbach: sydney
<dholbach> Hobbsee_away: should be easy, no?
<Hobbsee_away> dholbach: should be
<Hobbsee_away> just havent quite gotten around to it.   besides, ajmitch is visiting, and is going to sign it :)
<dholbach> imbrandon: hum
<dholbach> imbrandon: it just contains "java diff"?
<dholbach> imbrandon: missing attachment?
<Hobbsee_away> hehe
* Hobbsee_away does that too, usually :P
* Hobbsee_away has learned to attach FIRST to solve that problem..
<imbrandon> oh jez, when i resent i dident attach , sorry one sec
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> *shuffles back into the corner*
* dholbach apt-get source's  j2se1.4-i586 on an amd64 machine
<imbrandon> hehe i did the same thing the first time and figured i should do it on a 686
<imbrandon> so i redid it just to make sure it wouldent make a diff
<dholbach> imbrandon: uploaded
<imbrandon> cool
<imbrandon> k now onto the next few
<imbrandon> qemu-system-x86_64 is SLOW on 32bit proc
<imbrandon> heh
<antinobody> Wow, I should follow this chat better
<antinobody> I have a vague idea what a gpg is, no idea how to generate one
<imbrandon> one sec i'll grab you the wikki for it , its pretty simple
<antinobody> gracas
<imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto?action=show&redirect=GPGKey
<imbrandon> to build the debs you only need to get to the part about uploading to the key server but its a good idea to get it signed someday
<antinobody> ok, appreciate it
<zakame> hi all
<zakame>  all hi
<ajmitch> hey zakame
<Gloubiboulga> hi zakame
<imbrandon> heya
<antinobody> hey
<zakame> hello ajmitch Gloubiboulga imbrandon antinobody
<dholbach> hey zakame
<zakame> hello dholbach ! :D
<dholbach> imbrandon: you tried to get this into breezy?
* dholbach does some corrections
<imbrandon> um no
<imbrandon> dident think so
<imbrandon> ohhh the changelog still sais breezy probbly
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> it does :)
<imbrandon> grr
<dholbach> and it's dh_iconcache, not dh_cache
<dholbach> sorry for being pedantic
<dholbach> i changed and reuploaded
<imbrandon> no problem at all
<dholbach> ok, cool
<tseng> dholbach: you are german, you cant help it
<imbrandon> i should have checked better
* tseng hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> tseng: I know - I'll try to do better.
<imbrandon> heh
<tseng> guten morgen
<dholbach> tseng: I might go to Greece - how does that sound?
<tseng> dholbach: that sounds wonderful
<dholbach> it's just a crazy idea, but I'd love to
<tseng> dholbach: but i still need to find money to go to catalonia
<dholbach> tseng: Ok, until then I'll try to win the lottery twice a week and give you the money, if I make it. Ok?
<tseng> ok
<dholbach> Cool - I'll give you weekly reports.
<tseng> i will have plenty of money in a few weeks after i pay off my new sofa
<tseng> and pay my bills, get the next paycheck
* dholbach wants a new sofa too
<tseng> but prices will probably go up by then
<dholbach> I saw such a nice one, but I'm sure my dog and I would mess it up in just a week
<dholbach> I'd spill a glass of red wine and my dog would make scratches in it
<antinobody> Isn't that why you buy a new couch?  It's boring using the same ruined coach over and over again.
<antinobody> Eventually you have to break a new one
<tseng> i bought one because i moved and didnt own one
<dholbach> I don't have one either
<antinobody> I've never actually bought a couch, I just get the ones other people think are too ugly.
<dholbach> atm
<antinobody> But I imagine that would be why I'd get a new one
* Hobbsee is back
<Gloubiboulga> welcome back Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
<ajmitch> wb :)
<Hobbsee> packages finished building :)
<imbrandon> wb
<Hobbsee> ty :)
* Hobbsee wonders why this doestn work
<Hobbsee> dholbach: ping?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: pong
<Hobbsee> dholbach: with this iconcache thing, what happens when the package, kdeaccessibility, builds multiple binaries?
<Hobbsee> how do you check if the thing actually worked?
<Hobbsee> i've been checkign the postinst files, which usually shows it...but i cant see where it should be here..
<dholbach> doesn't show up?
<dholbach> foreach my $package (@{$dh{DOPACKAGES}}) {
<dholbach>         my $tmp=tmpdir($package);
<dholbach> that should take care of it
* dholbach gets kdeaccessibility source
<Hobbsee> there's other stuff in the individual binarys postisnt files, but not the iconcache stuff, that i can see...
<dholbach> gtk-update-icon-cache?
<zakame> Hobbsee: it should be in the package where the icons are
<dholbach> Hobbsee: can you show me your diff for debian/rules?
<zakame> bbl
<Hobbsee> dholbach: http://pastebin.com/686764
<Hobbsee> is the rules file
<Hobbsee> only difference is the bit at the end...
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> oh?
* dholbach doublechecks
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure if it's in the right place, or what
<dholbach> hum
<ajmitch> or if someone's been telling you lies all this time :)
<Hobbsee> that's possible...in which case, there will be punishment :P
<ajmitch> uh oh
<Hobbsee> :P
<antinobody> Anyone want to help me place dh_iconcache in debian/rules for okle?
<antinobody> You know it sounds like fun
<dholbach> antinobody: can you put the rules file online somewhere?
<dholbach> maybe paste it to pastebin.com too?
<antinobody> http://pastebin.com/686755
<antinobody> Done and not unfinished-like
<dholbach> Hobbsee: if you're not afraid to view a *HUGE* site: http://tinyurl.com/f89c6 - it contains all the packages installing stuff to /usr/share/icons
<dholbach> Hobbsee: and it should be some of these binary packages: kmouth, kbstate, kttsd-contrib-plugins, kmousetool, kdeaccessibility, kde-icons-mono, ksayit, kdeaccessibility-doc-html, kttsd, kmag
<dholbach> Hobbsee: kde-icons-mono looks like a good start
<dholbach> Hobbsee: the others might ship stuff too
<Hobbsee> er...
<dholbach> yeha :)
<dholbach> you have the packages or the built tree still flying around?
<Hobbsee> of kdeaccessibility?  yes
<Hobbsee> both
<Hobbsee> i left them building over dinner
<dholbach> nice
<dholbach> for the debs you can do this
<dholbach> for i in *.deb; do dpkg -c $i | grep usr/share/icons; done
<dholbach> or something
* Hobbsee suddenly feels really stupid
<Hobbsee> so...what are you trying to tell me?
<Hobbsee> i'm not understanding...
<ajmitch> getting a list of packages that put files in /usr/share/icons
<ajmitch> it'd be dpkg-deb, rather than dpkg
<Hobbsee> yes, but why do i want a list of them?
<antinobody> Hobbsee:  Dude, don't even.  You might be beating with the whole "time-zone" thing, but I'm whipping you in the feeling stupid category.
<ajmitch> probably to pass the package names as arguments to dh_iconcache
<Hobbsee> antinobody: hehe
<Hobbsee> dont feel stupid...took me ages to figure out what the heck needed fixing to start doing this too...
<antinobody> Honestly, my feeling stupid here is more of an outlet for feeling stupid in a larger context
<antinobody> But that is not to be worried about
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i dont really understand how that helps, or what you're trying to tell me.  is this my packaging error, or i'm looking in the wrong place for the postinst file, or what?
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> the   install/kdeaccessibility::   thing in debian/rules says:
<Hobbsee> the bit i added, yeah
<dholbach> for the kdeaccessibility binary package (which is one of the many binary packages), run dh_iconcache in the install target please
<Hobbsee> right...yes...
<dholbach> the problem is: you need to know which of these binary packages ship the icons
<Hobbsee> and the install target is...where?
<Hobbsee> or dont we care?
<dholbach> after stuff is built
<dholbach> install is fine
<dholbach> it's just that there are 10-15 binary packages
<Hobbsee> ah right....
<Hobbsee> yep
<dholbach> and you run dh_iconcache for one of them
<dholbach> (which might not ship icons at all)
<dholbach> but that's fine... you just need to check on the others
<dholbach> or run   install::   dh_iconcache
<dholbach> then it's run for the whole lot of them
<Hobbsee> ooh goody...
<Hobbsee> that applies to all multiple binary packages?
<dholbach> yeppa
<Hobbsee> is the install:: dh_iconcache syntax "install/packagename:: dh_iconcache", or dont you need the packagename in there?
<Hobbsee> also, that replaces the bit that i added in?
<dholbach> yeah, replace it
<dholbach> <target>::   means   apply for all binary packages
<dholbach> <target>/>binarypackage>::   means   apply for this binary package only
<dholbach> <target>/<binarypackage>::
<Hobbsee> a ha!
<Hobbsee> thankyou :D
<dholbach> i meant
<dholbach> yeah!
<dholbach> de rien :)
<Hobbsee> whatever that is
* Hobbsee only speaks english, and bits of german!
<dholbach> "anytime" or something :)
<Hobbsee> ah :)
<antinobody> I can't help you, I only speak English and Spanish
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> dholbach: enters and spaces matter in makefiles?
<dholbach> yes
<antinobody> Umm, not to be a pain, but does anyone happen to know where I'm supposed to put dh_iconcache in okle?
<antinobody> http://pastebin.com/686755
<antinobody> being my debian/rules file
<ajmitch> antinobody: I'd put it after dh_installmenu, or in a similar location
<ajmitch> though it shouldn't matter too much
<antinobody> Ok, thank you, that answers my question
<dholbach> antinobody: thanks for working on it
<antinobody> Wow, it turns out I get really polite when I stay up until 4 in the morning...
<dholbach> antinobody: dh_iconcache looks at the icons that are to be installed, so need to add it somewhere, where the build and everything else has happened already
<ajmitch> heh
<tseng> antinobody: it works for ajmitch too
<tseng> ajmitch: you should see him on a full nights rest
<ajmitch> tseng: I'm not polite
<tseng> er
<tseng> s'why its funny
<tseng>  < ugner> tseng: you are not pleasant to talk to
<Hobbsee> heh
<ajmitch> evening Yagisan
<Hobbsee> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch, Hobbsee
<antinobody> Ok, dh_iconcache is added to debian/rules and the debian/changelog is update (to the best of my knowledge and understanding), what is left to do?
<dholbach> run    debuild -S
<antinobody> hiya yagisan
<dholbach> or wait
<dholbach> you can just do a       diff -ruN orig/ changed/
<dholbach> and paste the patch somewhere
<dholbach> the diff it displays
<dholbach> and somebody can upload that :)
<antinobody> it says there are niether directory
<herzi> dholbach: i'm just committing the evolution-maximized patch to HEAD and gnome-2-14
<dholbach> herzi: i noticed
<dholbach> antinobody: then run         debuild -S
<dholbach> antinobody: and upload the .diff.gz and .dsc somewhere
<dholbach> i'm getting some lunch
<dholbach> antinobody: from then on, somebody else can assist you
<antinobody> ok
<antinobody> running debsign failed
<Hobbsee> yeah, that's okay
<Hobbsee> debsign isnt the same as building a deb...it's signing it
<antinobody> Ok, how can I tell something didn't go wrong?
<antinobody> I mean, I take it there should be a series of files .diff.gz .dsc .dsc.asc, etc, etc, which did spit out
<antinobody> I take it that was the idea?
<Hobbsee> yep
<Hobbsee> antinobody: then type debdiff *.dsc > packagename.dsc
<antinobody> ok
<Hobbsee> that'll create a file called packagename.dsc, which you can then upload/sent to a MOTU
<Hobbsee> oh, strike!
<Hobbsee> that packagename.dsc SHOULD read packagename.debdiff
<Hobbsee> someone want to hit me over the head for such a stupid error?  sheesh!
<ajmitch> no, we all make mistakes :)
<Yagisan> mistakes ? what's that ;)
<antinobody> ha, I don't have patchutils
<antinobody> ok
<antinobody> Um, in packagename.debdiff, do I include build number?
<Hobbsee> nope, it's just a name so that the MOTU (and you) recognise what it is
<antinobody> Ok, I have a .debdiff file, where do I hand it over, and how?
<Gloubiboulga> antinobody, send me your debdiff, I'll have a look: gauvainpocentek@gmail.com
* Hobbsee growls menacingly
<antinobody> Ok
<antinobody> It cannot be easy to menace over the internet
<antinobody> Surely it takes refinement
* Hobbsee shakes her fist too :P
<Gloubiboulga> antinobody, you don't know Hobbsee yet ;)
<Hobbsee> LOL!
<antinobody> I know she doesn't speak Spanish
* Hobbsee prances around innocently in a flowing dress, giving off a totally different impression to being menacing :P
<ajmitch> hehe :)
* Hobbsee goes to look for a single binary to do...
<antinobody> I think she enjoys the ability to define in strict terms exactly what impression she's giving off
<Hobbsee> those multiple binaries deserve to be hung, drawn, and quartered!
<Hobbsee> :P
<Gloubiboulga> antinobody, if you change something in the package, then you have to use a XubuntuY version
<Gloubiboulga> in the changelog that os
<Gloubiboulga> is*
<dholbach> Hobbsee: haha, tell riddell :)
<Hobbsee> hehe...guess we'd lose all of kde that way, wouldnt we?
<antinobody> Ok
<antinobody> Wait, for what?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: it'd mean that the upstream kde guys had to split up their stuff
<antinobody> oh, I see
<Hobbsee> ah, that could be fun.  Tm_T would love that.
* Yagisan only uses 2 kde apps. as long as they work I'm happy
<Hobbsee> which are they?  i'll be sure to break them
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: please break k3b and konqueror for me then ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<antinobody> Oh, nobody uses those
<Gloubiboulga> antinobody, just seen that you've only "signed" with your first name...
<antinobody> In changelog?
<Gloubiboulga> yes
<antinobody> Ha
<antinobody> Well, that's fixed
<Gloubiboulga> great :)
<antinobody> Ok, so what do you mean by using XubuntuY
<Gloubiboulga> in this case it should be 5ubuntu1
<Gloubiboulga> 0.4+cvs20040728-5ubuntu1
<Gloubiboulga> the -5 is the package version in debian
<antinobody> I see, I see
<Gloubiboulga> if the package only needs a rebuild in Ubuntu, it becomes 5buil1, or 5ubuntu1 if we need to hcnage something
<antinobody> distinguishing and all of that
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<antinobody> ok, I've sent you what I hope is a fixed version
<zul> heylo
<Hobbsee> hi zul
<zul> hey Hobbsee how is it going?
<Hobbsee> okay, doing some of these dh_iconcache fixes :)
<zul> ooh...fun
<Hobbsee> the single binaries are fine, the multiple binaries are hell :P
<Gloubiboulga> antinobody, you've sent me the entire debian/rules in the patch :)
<antinobody> I have
<antinobody> I'm learning, if I don't practice, I'll forget it in the morning...or, well, when I wake up anyway.
<antinobody> That's my excuse
<antinobody> In reality I have little idea what or how I sent you anything
<Gloubiboulga> antinobody, no problem
<antinobody> aighto
<Gloubiboulga> antinobody, actually it's a backup debian/rules~ that you sent awith the patch
<Gloubiboulga> I'll remove it, test and upload, is that ok with you?
<antinobody> Won't hurt me any
<antinobody> At some point, I may even know what I did
<antinobody> As it is 5 in the morning, I should probably sleep.
<Gloubiboulga> antinobody, read some doc on the wiki, I'm sure that'll make things more clear
<Gloubiboulga> well, read the doc tomorrow then
<antinobody> Indeed
<antinobody> Well, today...but later.
<antinobody> Sin embargo, buenas noches, todos.
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: what is dh_iconcache ? (should I care about it for not-yet-in-ubuntu packages ?)
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: see topic
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: ok. I shove my icons into usr/share/pixmaps so it doesn't appear to affect me
<Hobbsee> hehe okay
<siretart> zul: I see that you uploaded mldonkey
<siretart> zul: did you actually try some upgrade test? last time I tried it I got terrible isntallation problems
<zul> siretart: yeah, i did. ill test it again though
<siretart> zul: I'm asking because I spend hours of testing, fixind and stuff, but I kept on getting strange errors from the maintainer/configuration scripts, and therfore refrained from uploading
<zul> im not able to start mldonkey-server because of /etc/default/mldonkey
<siretart> zul: err, huh?
<zul> Starting MLDonkey: mlnet configuration file prevent mlnet to be started (use force-start).
<siretart> zul: in my package, I extended /e/d/mldonkey to include username and group in order to be able to create /var/run/mldonkey with correct owner and group
<siretart> hm
<siretart> zul: I'm happy to share my old mldonkey source package with you. perhaps you can merge some bits from that. interested?
<zul> siretart: sure..
<zul> send me an email to zulcss@gmail.com and ill look at it tonight when i get home
<siretart> sent
<zul> thanks
<zul> now back to my wiki page..
* Hobbsee continues to do the single binary dh_iconchanges :)
<No1Viking> I'm trying to install WebGUI CMS. Anyone got good instructions how to do it on dapper?
<G0SUB> There is a weird font bug in Dapper now ...
<G0SUB> I can't select any font other than Sans now
<G0SUB> my desktop fonts suck now
<ivoks> dapper is work in progress
<G0SUB> ivoks: I am aware of that
<G0SUB> ivoks: what I want to know is if this is a known bug and if there are any fixes
<ivoks> search on launchpad
<ivoks> or join #ubuntu-bugs
<azeem> I would expect ubuntu bugs being about fixing bugs rather than discussing their existance
<zul> azeem: its a little from column a a little from column b
<azeem> I see
<ivoks> after so many reports on xserver-xorg... :)
* ajmitch wonders if he should upload e2fsprogs 
<StevenK> Heh
<ajmitch> do I feel lucky?
<StevenK> Lately? No.
<ajmitch> hah
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Tm_T> Hobbsee: what?
<Hobbsee> Tm_T: you'd love it if you could get a newer version of kopete in, wihtout needing to change all of kdenetwork :P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: sounds like sanity
<Hobbsee> heh
<Tm_T> Hobbsee: hehe
<Tm_T> Hobbsee: well, we sort of have to, because 0.12 is NOT part of kdenetwork
<Hobbsee> true
<Tm_T> and 0.12 will be atleast dapper+1
<Tm_T> agh, release in next week and I haven't done my fixes yet
<Tm_T> oh well...
<Riddell> kopete 0.12 is next week?
<zakame> hello all
<Yagisan> I'd like to ask for some advice. I have a package (N-Y-I-U). It makes a binary + a few supporting libs (internal use only). Some libs are under a non-dfsg license (non-commercial clause). How would I convert my .deb to make separate .debs for the engine, and for the internal libs. Is there a tutorial ?
<Amaranth> Yagisan: probably best to look at another package
<Amaranth> Yagisan: you have to use debian/files.* and debian/control
<ajmitch> Yagisan: do you plan to distribute this?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: yes
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I'd like to send it back to revu
<ajmitch> then you'll have to split the sources, rather than just the binaries :)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I see. I may need to bug you further on this then in future
<Yagisan> Amaranth: thank you
* ajmitch just got a bug about having non-dfsg-free docs in one of his debian packages
<Amaranth> GFDL?
<ajmitch> no, an RFC
<zakame> moo
<Yagisan> ajmitch: um, some of those internal libs need common headers. duplicate them in the source tarballs ?
<ajmitch> it's an evil & nasty way of doing it
<ajmitch> but yes, probably
<ajmitch> depends on the build system
<Yagisan> ajmitch: monolithic automake based
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I'm trying to rewrite it, as upstream rearranges evrything
<ajmitch> good luck
<ajmitch> what license is the rest of it under?
<Yagisan> thanks ajmitch. GPL v2 or later, some BSD
<ajmitch> hm
<Yagisan> ajmitch: we are removing and rewriting the non-dfsg stuff, but that will take time
<ajmitch> I'd investigate how well you can have GPL & non-commercial-only in the same project, linking together
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I'd just like to get the package into the best shape I can, before resubmission
<ajmitch> sounds reasonable
<Yagisan> ajmitch: the non-commercial stuff is in some of the seperate plug-in libs
<ajmitch> ok
<Yagisan> ajmitch: you can delete it and it works (minus the features deleted of course)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: but the end-users don't want me to do that
<ajmitch> as upstream you could put in an exception anyway (if all the contributors agree)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: yes, that is easy. not many contributors
<ajmitch> the FSF takes a fairly strict interpretation of what a derivative work is then
<ajmitch> saying that a plugin is dependant on the main app, and so is covered as a GPL derivative
<ajmitch> ie no non-free stuff
<ajmitch> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLAndPlugins for the boring info
<ajmitch> a few entries later it has a sample exception template
<Yagisan> ajmitch: it looks close to the borderline case atm, and is going to move further towards it (rather like the linux kernel and say the nvidia module).
<Yagisan> ajmitch: thanks for the heads up. I will bring it to the rest of the teams attention
<ajmitch> best to find out now than when you go to upload
<Yagisan> ajmitch: yes, much better now. I still have a chance to fix it before upload
<Hobbsee> night all...
<phanatic> hi people
<zul> hi phanatic
<bddebian> Hello phanatic
<zakame> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey zul, bddebian, zakame
<bddebian> zakame!! :-)
<ajmitch> hello phanatic
<phanatic> greetings, ajmitch
<zakame> bddebian!! :-)
<Seveas> jamessan, ping
<jamessan> Seveas: pong
<Tonio_> yop
<bddebian> Heya Tonio_
<Seveas> jamessan, you were interested in Ubugtus bugtracker plugin?
<jamessan> Seveas: is it still based on the Bugzilla plugin or did you end up rewriting it?
<Seveas> somewhere in between
<Seveas> I rewrote most of it, but parts of the old code are still ther
<Seveas> e
<jamessan> actually, I just noticed you're still running an older version of supybot.  a user was asking for Bugzilla updated to work with 0.83.1 so I thought I'd take a look at what you had done
<Seveas> hehm no I run the older one, will have to update in a month or so
<Seveas> around that time I'm going to port it
<jamessan> maybe I'll just buckle down and port the Bugzilla plugin this weekend
<Seveas> btw: the plugin now understands trac, bugzilla, malone, debbugs and sourceforge
<jamessan> heh, trying to obsolete some of my other plugins I see ;)
<phanatic> raphink: missed the channel :)
<Seveas> not really, i just wanted a uniform interface
<raphink> phanatic: what do you mean?
<phanatic> raphink: i wanted to greet you here, not on -devel :)
<raphink> oooh ok :)
<jamessan> Seveas: the newer 'nested plugins' may work well with that.  I'd be interested in seeing how the plugin's evolved
<Seveas> jamessan, bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl has a link to the code
<phanatic> raphink: i envy you because of the developer summit held in paris ;)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> you can come phanatic
<phanatic> yeah, it's in the last week of my exam period, so if i do my studies well, i can make it
<iegary> anybody able to take a look at bug 29802? I've added a patch with a possible workaround.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 29802 in mysql-admin "MySQL Administrator Locks when trying to do User Administration" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29802
<zul> what does the patch do?
<iegary> zul: moves /usr/bin/mysql-admin to /usr/lib/mysql-admin/mysql-admin, adds a shell script to set an environment variable, then exec the binary with all arguments.
<iegary> zul: the bug is that without a certain env variable set, the app usually hangs trying to view/add users. An alternative would be to mess with the code, which might be more intrusive
<Spec> but it would be a better fix
<Spec> and you could submit it upstream
<iegary> well it's not a fix - it looks like a workaround to hide an unknown race condition - changing the code based on this workaround would just serialize stuff that's usually done in parallel, and will almost certainly not be the final fix.
<iegary> I might have a look for the real fix this w/end if I have time then - looks like somebody forgot to unlock a mutex.
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Hi
<LaserJock> hi tuxmaniac
<LaserJock> I'll try to revew xcircuit soon
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: No probs!
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Am begining to package Magic now
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: G0SUB said something about ITP so that I pack it for debian too!
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: I infact waiting for some nice review comments so that I can take care while doing the next packaging process!
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: yeah, in debian if you would like to package something new, you usually file an Intent To Package (ITP) bug againt wnpp
<tuxmaniac> Yes G0SUB told me just now!
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: for more info go to http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: it isn't necessary in order to get the package into Ubuntu but it is nice to give the Debian users a package too
<bddebian> LaserJock: I think tuxmaniac is your new MOTUScience master :-)
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Ok..
<LaserJock> bddebian: :)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: I am _not_ a master.. Still a wanna be.. Will definitely inform you when I become.. :)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: BTW how much of Bugs you squashed today :)
<bddebian> I'm being slow today.  Only about 10 so far
<zul> i better catch up
<bddebian> zul: I'm pushing 33K now :-)
<zul> im pushing 10k :)
<bddebian> Bah, you can close that gap over the weekend ;-P
<zul> bddebian: heh, i have the next week off from work :P
<crimsun> d'oh, the next dev summit is in France
<bddebian> zul: Uh oh :-)
<LaserJock> eww, I slipped below 10k today. I better get moving
<crimsun> gah, below 60k :/
<bddebian> w00t, go crimsun
<tuxmaniac> I do a Suspend to RAM on my laptop
<tuxmaniac> When I long in again
<tuxmaniac> the network Monitor does not show the data activity but the network is working fine
<tuxmaniac> Is this a Bug?
<tuxmaniac> *log
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> (it is a bug)
* tuxmaniac runs to file one!
* bddebian cries
<zul> another xsim?
<bddebian> Nah
<bddebian> Heya cbx33
<bddebian> slomo_: You around?
<cbx33> hiya bddebian howz it all going
<bddebian> cbx33: OK I guess. You?
<cbx33> yeh goo
<cbx33> d
<bddebian> Bug #37297 Should go upstream?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 37297 in pmount "Please support dmask and fmask in addition to umask" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37297
<dholbach> bddebian: pitti is upstream
<bddebian> Ahh
<dholbach> good bye
<phanatic> bye dholbach
<dholbach> phanatic: I noticed you'll be in Paris too! Great!
<dholbach> :-)
<phanatic> yeah, i hope i get a little sponsorship, then i'll be there for sure :)
<dholbach> super! :)
<dholbach> see you guys around
<dholbach> *wave*
<LaserJock> hi \sh
<\sh> moin moin
<Gloubiboulga> hello \sh
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder what the dev conference will be called
<LaserJock> UFF - Ubuntu French Fried?
<LaserJock> UFT - Ubuntu French Toast?
<LaserJock> I sure hope they think of better names than me
<LaserJock> I just had lunch, food is on the brain
<sivang> LaserJock: do you know where it is going to be / has anything been announced about it yet?
<LaserJock> near Paris
<LaserJock> it is on ubuntu-announce
<raphink> Tonio_: I _have_ uploaded k-d-s
<raphink> LaserJock: that'll give you a good opportunity to come see me :)
<Tonio_> raphink: good ;)
<raphink> Tonio_: I have uploaded kds on tuesday
<raphink> 3 days ago
<raphink> unless you mean a new one
<Tonio_> raphink: there is a new one yes ;)
<raphink> ah
<raphink> did you send it to me?
<raphink> ah I see
<Tonio_> ;)
<raphink> Tonio_: sorry I'm just overbusy lately
<raphink> all the time I don't work or spend with the job searching I spend with my friend ;)
<raphink> I'll upload now
<LaserJock> raphink: I'd love to, I just don't know that I can make it
<raphink> ah
<raphink> I hope you can :)
<LaserJock> it is in June, right?
<raphink> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> I'd have to get a passport and I don't know that I could get sponsorship
<raphink> ah
<raphink> Tonio_: I only see changes by Lure in this new one
<crimsun> passports don't take too long
<raphink> but I'll upload
<crimsun> I'd love to go, but there's no way I could get release time :/
<Lure> raphink: in k-d-s? not mine....
<LaserJock> I could get the time, I just don't have any money
<Tonio_> raphink: hu ?
<Lure> raphink: but you can do my kdeadmin ;-)
<crimsun> well, if we pool, maybe half of each of us can go ;)
* LaserJock is still a poor grad student with a wife
<raphink> oh wait a min
<raphink> wait
<Tonio_> raphink: or was it riddell ?
<raphink> I confused
<raphink> sorry Tonio
<raphink> give me one minute
<Tonio_> Lure: how do you extract datas from an rpm ?
<Lure> raphink: take your time - just do not upload new kernel ;-)
<Tonio_> I don't know anything about that crappy binary package structure :)
<Lure> (as they told you on TB ;-)
<raphink> Lure: haha
<raphink> Tonio_: juste une petite faute de frappe dans le changelog ;)
<Tonio_> raphink: ok
<Lure> Tonio_: I think rpm is cpio package , will try to remember how I did it last time...
<Tonio_> raphink: tu sais comment extraire les datas d'un rpm ? je vais pter mon slip la ca me les casse.......
<raphink> I'll fix it Tonio_
<Tonio_> Lure: rpm2cpio ?
<raphink> Tonio_: avec alien ?
<Tonio_> raphink: bah je vois pas comment en fait
<raphink> man alien
<raphink> je sais pas
<Tonio_> connard ;)
<raphink> haha
<raphink> :)
<raphink> j'ai jamais fait
<Tonio_> bah je fais un deb et j'extract du deb, mais  bon c rilou :)
<raphink> :p
<raphink> et reste poli hein?
<Tonio_> bah ici c pas une insulte ;)
<raphink> et heu ...
<raphink> c'est quoi ce kds horrible l ?
<Tonio_> de koi ?
<raphink> tous les fichiers de debian/ sont en chmod x
<Tonio_> serieux ?
<raphink> meme control
<Tonio_> bah ecoute j'ai rien chang moi
<raphink> a va pas du tout a
<Tonio_> c'tait comme ca avant ?
<raphink> ben regarde
<raphink> j'ai du 700 sur presque tous
<raphink> je sais pas je regarde
<Tonio_> bah ca a toujours t comme ca
<Lure> Tonio_: or alien... will try
<LaserJock> I feel like I'm at the dev conference already :-)
<Tonio_> et franchement on s'en bat les couettes
<Lure> LaserJock: lolo
<raphink> oui mais a va pas Tonio_
<raphink> je vais changer a
<raphink> dans l'upload
<raphink> :)
<raphink> jj'en profite :)
<Tonio_> k
<raphink> voil a va tre mieux :)
<raphink> hop
<ajmitch> morning
<raphink> hi ajmitch
<raphink> Lure: I'm doing yours now
<Lure> raphink: thanks
<Lure> raphink: if you will test, try PPC ;-)
<raphink> ah
<raphink> ok then I'll build on this one
<raphink> brb
<ajmitch> ah, I see the developer summit is announced
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-04
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello LaserJock
<LaserJock> ajmitch: how's your day going?
<crimsun> ooh, nice upstream changes in alsa for reducing resource consumption :)
<ajmitch> good, how about you?
<crimsun> 'lo ajmitch, LaserJock
<ajmitch> hey crimsun
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ok, was just talking to a potential postdoc employer
<LaserJock> but I'm fighting a bit with ssh-agent stuff at the moment
<crimsun> g'luck w/ both
<crimsun> (may I recommend keychain?)
<LaserJock> I've got keychain on my mac, but the one computer I'm having problems with doesn't have it I don't think
<LaserJock> and it is the deparment server so I don't have a lot of access
<LaserJock> it doesn't have much of anything it seems, I think it is a SuSE box
<crimsun> you really only need write access to ~/.ssh, which I hope you have
<LaserJock> yes
<ajmitch> LaserJock: good luck with that :)
<LaserJock> but I've been trying to get ssh-agent to start up when I log in, but it isn't working terribly well. It keeps leaving proccesses behind
<ajmitch> so who's going to go to paris in june?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you?
<ajmitch> ENOTIME
<LaserJock> ENOMONEY
<ajmitch> that too :)
<LaserJock> I can more or less take off as much as I want, but money is quite tight these days
<ajmitch> I've got an exam on the 21st, so no chance of getting away
<LaserJock> ah, school is out mid May here
<ajmitch> hi bmonty
<bmonty> hi MOTUs!
<crimsun> hi
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<bmonty> how's everything going today?
<tseng> bmonty: yo
<LaserJock> crimsun: ah, I found keychain. I thought it was a bigger app or something. It is close to what I was doing, just better
<cyberix> slomo_: Your package has been linked to. See http://gnunet.org/download.php3
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> slomo was just the last person to touch it
<imbrandon> ls -la
<imbrandon> dammit
<ajmitch> at least it wasn't a password
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch the dh_iconcache needs to go into the "binary-arch: build install" list correct ?
<ajmitch> no
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> it goes with the rest of the dh_* calls
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<imbrandon> yea
<bddebian> ajmitch: You have some time by any chance?
<ajmitch> heh, funny man
<ajmitch> some
<bddebian> I'm trying to figure out where xpm2wico is getting the X11R6 path from
<bddebian> It's not an xmkmf package
<ajmitch> it still sounds scary
<ajmitch> what X11R6 path is it getting?
<bddebian> Several
<bddebian> I found one place in configure.in but it's still picking it up?
<ajmitch> veyr helpful
<bddebian> Er configure.ac
<ajmitch> build time? run time/
<ajmitch> ?
<bddebian> autoreconf time.  Still get them in configure
<ajmitch> why are you doing autoreconf?
<bddebian> Hmm, maybe it's AC_PATH_X?
<bddebian> Should I just hammer configure and Makefiles manually instead?
* ajmitch shrugs
<bddebian> ajmitch: Why wouldn't I run autoreconf?
<ajmitch> I'm wondering why on earth you need to?
<ajmitch> anyway, I'll be back soon
<bddebian> OK, laterz
<bddebian> Any other takers wanna help my dumb ass?
<bddebian> Welcome dolson
<dolson> thanks. not sure why all of a sudden I noticed X-Chat wasn't running
<LaserJock> hi again bmonty
<bmonty> hey LaserJock...may laptop battery died :(
<LaserJock> bummer
<mgalvin> might i kindly nudge someone to fix some low hanging fruit in anyone is interested
<mgalvin> Bug #31728
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 31728 in moin "moin 1.5 should require or suggest python-xml for DocBook rendering" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31728
<crimsun> this one? moin | 1.5.2-1ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Sources
<crimsun> it really should at least Recommends it
<crimsun> will have to find a main uploader, though
<bmonty> anyone know of any reason why we should keep the euro-support package around? (Malone #41519) Doesn't Ubuntu support the euro character out of the box?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41519 in euro-support "[UNMETDEPS]  euro-support has unmet dependencies" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41519
<crimsun> bmonty: it does support it ()
<bmonty> crimsun: I know, so why have a package to assist with enabling support for it....I'm going to ask it to be removed
<bmonty> unless anyone objects
<crimsun> what does euro-support give us that isn't already in by default?
<LaserJock> crimsun: I think that is bmonty's point
<bmonty> I think we are in violent agreement :)
<bmonty> crimsun: BTW, how did you generate the euro character?
<mgalvin> crimsun: yes... ah right it is in main :-/
<crimsun> bmonty: err, I meant that GNOME already supports it
<crimsun> bmonty: AltGr+5
<bmonty> what does the Gr part mean?
<crimsun> System> Preferences> Keyboard> Layout Options> Adding the Eurosign ...
<crimsun> it's equivalent to ctrl+alt, according to google://"what is altgr"
<bmonty> crimsun: the default dapper supports the euro character so we don't need a package to help out with it...and potentially lead users in the wrong direction
<crimsun> bmonty: right, I wasn't disgreeing with you; I just didn't have apt-cache show running, so I wondered if you knew what it added extra
<bmonty> crimsun: it adds a script to try printing the euro character with fonts installed on the system, and has packages with depends on font packages that have the euro character
<bmonty> all unnecessary for Ubuntu
<crimsun> ah, yeah, that can be removed
<bmonty> I requested that the archive team remove it
<LaserJock> bah, who needs a Euro anyway ;-)
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> Heya slomo_
<crimsun> yay for gst0.15 :)
<crimsun> gah, 0.10.5
<ajmitch> I was going to say... :)
<crimsun> I seem to have a problem with '.' and '1' today
<LaserJock> I was going to say ..
<crimsun> hooray, quod libet plays mpcs correctly again
<crimsun> (thanks to fix in gst 0.10.5)
<bddebian> W00t
<bddebian> crimsun, crimsun, he's our man, if he can't do it, no one can.. Yeah crimsun  :-)
<bmonty> Malone #41522, am I on crack or is there no issue here?  The only binary is installable on my system.  Maybe this is a problem on a non-i386?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41522 in xffm "[UNMETDEPS]  xffm has unmet dependencies" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41522
<bddebian> bmonty: I've run in to a couple of those.  Have you pulled the source and checked the changelog?
<bddebian> I found one or two that were already sent up for buildX s
<bmonty> bddebian: yup, nothing interesting there
<bddebian> Yeah, xffm4 seems to work for me too
<bmonty> ok, thanks bddebian
<bddebian> No, thank YOU :-)
<imbrandon> any motu's want a cupple diff's for the iconcache i've got done?
<bddebian> imbrandon: Sure, shoot
<imbrandon> bddebian@ubuntu.com ?
<bddebian> Hmm, you can try it
<imbrandon> k sent
<imbrandon> PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 9): 550 <bddebian@ubuntu.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table
<LaserJock> heh
<bddebian> Figures
<bddebian> I get no love
<imbrandon> lol
<bddebian> imbrandon: bddebian@comcast.net
<imbrandon> k one sec
<imbrandon> k resent, lemme know and i'll update the wiki when they are uploaded ;)
<bddebian> imbrandon: gxine uploaded
<imbrandon> k ;)
<zul> heylo
<imbrandon> 'ello
<bddebian> Heya zul
<zul> hey bde
<zul> doh...bddebian
<bddebian> imbrandon: Is j2se supposed to be j2sdk1.4?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> err no
<imbrandon> j2se1.4-amd64
<bddebian> Hmm, I don't see that anywhere
<imbrandon> one sec
<imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DhIconCacheChanges
<imbrandon> top of univer+multivers list
<imbrandon> pool/multiverse/j/j2se1.4-amd64
<bddebian> Oh shix, I rpobably don't have multiverse on that box
<imbrandon> ;)
<bddebian> Ack, 34 freakin' Mb
<imbrandon> yea its a bigin
<imbrandon> so was -586
<imbrandon> but its done and uploaded
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> sooo dumb question as i'm semi new to ubuntu ( few months ) how do "I" get to be a motu that can upload ?
<bddebian> You keep doing what you're doing :-)
<imbrandon> hehe kk
<bddebian> Then go to a CC meeting and become a member
<bddebian> If they feel you have contributed enough
<bddebian> Then work some more
<imbrandon> cool
<bddebian> Then apply to TB meeting to become MOTU :-)
<imbrandon> cc meetings in irc?
<bddebian> Yes
<imbrandon> cool
<bddebian> imbrandon: j2se uploaded
<imbrandon> cool, thanks bddebian
<bddebian> NP, thank you
<imbrandon> i'll have a few more by the end of the evening if your still arround ( if not its all good i'm sure SOMEONE will be awake by there ;P )
<LaserJock> ack, how do I get rid of \n ?
<bddebian> backspace? :-)
<bddebian> Delete key?
<imbrandon> mv icewm_1.2.23-3ubuntu1-diff.dsc ../diff/
<imbrandon> err yea umm backspace
<LaserJock> bddebian: well, I was sort of looking for a more sophisticated (read sed or awk) way to do it
<LaserJock> bddebian: but yes, the backspace key was sufficent, just not elegant
<imbrandon> s/\n/null
<imbrandon> heheh
<LaserJock> well, with sed it just put 2 lines together
<LaserJock> oh well
<zul> bbiab
<imbrandon> ok who wants a few more uploads?
<chillywilly> lalalala
<imbrandon> anyone ? lol
<bddebian2> imbrandon: Shoot them to me if I can keep my damn network up long enough
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> sent
<bddebian> Sheesh, now I'm imbrandon's bitch too
<bddebian> :-)
<imbrandon> hahaha
<LaserJock> heh, that's right bddebian
<zul> but you do it so well
<LaserJock> imbrandon: make you a deal, you get him during the week and I get him on weekends ;-)
<imbrandon> hehe kk
<imbrandon> sounds fair
<imbrandon> lol to us atleaste
<bddebian> hmm
<bddebian> Somedays I do wonder why I come here.  I can get verbal abuse at home and at work.. ;-P
<imbrandon> lol
<bmonty> goodnight everyone
<bddebian> gnight bmonty
<Spec_> how do you get an e-mail @ubuntu.com ?
<bddebian> Spec_: You have to be a member
<imbrandon> become an ubuntu member
<Spec_> i am a member
<Spec_> is it automagic?
<Spec> (now i look more like a member)
<imbrandon> heh
<Spec> woah, cool
<Spec> dragoncow2@ubuntu.com is me, whee :)
<imbrandon> i still need to become a member lol
<bddebian> I've been a member since July 2005 and I still don't have a working @ubuntu.com email
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i noticed earlier
<Spec> i've been a member since two months ago i think
<Spec> but as soon as i became a member, i got swamped with non-computer-related-crap, sometimes mistakenly called life
<bddebian> imbrandon: Stop picking the freaking big packages will ya? :-)
<imbrandon> hehe i'm just going down the list
<imbrandon> i think there is only one big package in there
<imbrandon> heh i could do kdevelop next ..... j/k
<bddebian> You can send that to zul :-)
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> i have a local apt mirror here on the lan so it makes it kinda easy
<bddebian> imbrandon: OK, all up.  Please check the buildlogs for these as I am not exactly doing thorough package checking on them since they are 1 line changes.  Thanks.
<imbrandon> k i have been
<imbrandon> yea it will be nice when these are all done ( the dhiconcache ones )
<imbrandon> no hobbsee yet tonight
<bddebian> Nope
<bddebian> Maybe she actually has a life?
<imbrandon> hahaha as should i but hell
<imbrandon> but it IS friday .... might head out for a beer or two
<bddebian> Speaking of which, I need a smoke
<imbrandon_> .
<bddebian2> Grrr
<imbrandon> bddebian, still awake?
<imbrandon> err should say connected ( ie network problems )
<imbrandon> i got one more for ya, not an iconcache one, and a little more than 1 libe change lol
<imbrandon> or zul
<bddebian> imbrandon: Yeah, apparently my isp is freaking out tonight :-(
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> bddebian@charter.net ?
<bddebian> Aaaahhh for Gods sake
<imbrandon> ahh comcast.net , ok sent
<imbrandon> this one isnt a big package but its a big patch ( kbfx )
<zul> is kbfx in main?
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> universe
<imbrandon> patch is from like 4.8rc2 to 4.9.1 + a local fix for ubuntu automake script
<imbrandon> thus the size
<imbrandon> quite in here tonight
<jmg> heh
<jmg> anyone know how i could uninstall the dependencies of kubuntu-desktop?
<imbrandon> u all of them ? there is a thread on the msg board
<jmg> nah
<imbrandon> anyluck with patch that bddebian ?
<imbrandon> comcast is not liking him tonight ;(
<imbrandon> *yawns*
<antinobody> Hello folkses
<Hobbsee> hey antinobody
<ajmitch> hi
<antinobody> Hmm... I'm using a laptop that hasn't been upgraded to beta, with apt-get -f upgrade take care of that?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade will
<antinobody> (I'm visiting home for the weekend, using brother's comp)
<antinobody> thanks
<Gloubiboulga> hello pef
<pef> Gloubiboulga: salut :)
<pef> Gloubiboulga: alors ? dsol pour l'autre soir, minuit ca fait trop tard pour moi en ce moment :)
<Gloubiboulga> pef, a y est, j'ai rejoint l'quipe :)
<pef> flicitations :] 
<Gloubiboulga> merci :)
<pef> Gloubiboulga: donc tu serais plutot xfce toi alors ?
<Gloubiboulga> pef, oui :)
<pef> Gloubiboulga: super, c'est ce qu'il faut pour mettre sur plein de vieilles bcanes
<pef> (entre autre, videmment)
<Gloubiboulga> c'est l'ide de dpart de xubuntu
<Gloubiboulga> mme si on a eu des commentaires du genre "DSL c'est plus rapide"
<Gloubiboulga> a apporte un environnement plus lger, avec des lments rcents
<pef> Gloubiboulga: mais avec xubuntu tu change juste le desktop ou alors tu vire aussi certains services histoire d'allger le tout ? car sur une vieille bcane, le boot ca prends pas mal de temps aussi
<Gloubiboulga> pef, c'est la base ubuntu et tu changes le desktop
<Gloubiboulga> y'a pas (encore) de bidouillage dans le systme de base pour rendre le tout encore plus lger
<pef> ok, c'est bien ce qui me semblait
<imbrandon> heya antinobody Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
<antinobody> heya
<imbrandon> got a few of those dhiconcache outa your way
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> oh goody
* Hobbsee was having trouble fixing them last night...
<imbrandon> ;)
<antinobody> Did you all know it takes a long time to upgrade a distro?
<Hobbsee> hehe...that's why i dont do it terribly often...
<antinobody> Hard to avoid if you want to help out
<Hobbsee> true
<imbrandon> hehe i run a local apt mirror of dapper so it dosent take that long ( almost have to with 10 computers here in the house )
<imbrandon> i stil am trying to think of a good/cool use for my p 100mhz laying arround
<antinobody> Make a hell of a paper weight
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> probbly be an irc / email terminal for out in the garage
<imbrandon> maybe , duuno yet
<q|-_-|p> #ceviz.net #ceviz.net #ceviz.net #ceviz.net #ceviz.net#ceviz.net #ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#ceviz.net#cev
* Hobbsee curses
* Mongoose is away: /_\ zzZzZZZZzz
<Tonio_> hi
<jbeckers> hi
<jbeckers> I'm building some checkinstall debs, but they're all trying to install gconf files in the same location
<jbeckers> eg: `/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/%gconf-tree-bg.xml'
<jbeckers> which of course is no good :-)
<jbeckers> so my question is: what's the policy on these files? include/exclude from packages?
<Lathiat> wow someone was smoking some crack
<Lathiat> http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=36077&PHPSESSID=09867e8cb99e6c47fd22516ff74666a9
<Lathiat> LD_PRELOAD for gtk apps to use the kde file chooser
<ajmitch> awesome crack
<Lathiat> yes, that is awesome crack
<Lathiat> :)
<bmonty> hi bddebian
<ivoks> anyone uses gnome-ppp? :)
<zul> hey
<LaserJock> hi zul
<zul> hi LaserJock
<\sh> moins
<Gloubiboulga> hi \sh
<sivang> hey \sh , 'sup?
<\sh> doing some kubuntu work :)
<sivang> \sh: cool, already approved for uploads?
<\sh> no...that has time :)
<sivang> \sh: good luck anyways. Say, do you know when stuff will start getting out of NEW? :-)
<\sh> sivang: when elmo is releasing them :)
<sivang> \sh: heh, well I guess I still have to wait for my upbackup crack binaries to come out :)
<antinobody> hello peoples
<highvoltage> hello!
<ajmitch> hi
<highvoltage> bddebian: you just mussed the hi! loop :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi highvoltage :-)
<highvoltage> hi bddebian :)
<bddebian> Let's see if my isp is still puking on me.. :-(
<antinobody> That's an unpleasant metaphor
<\sh> moins bddebian
<bddebian> \sh!
<\sh> bddebian: how is life? :)
<bddebian> \sh: Fair to midland.  You?
<\sh> going up the hill :)
<highvoltage> life... *sigh*
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon.  I think I finally have a stable connection again
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> i'm cleaning my basement , just hooked up this comp in the basement as a "irc / email gateway" heheh its a 100mhz cyrix 32mb ram with dapper and fluxbox lol
<imbrandon> talk about pushing dapper to the limits, but anyhow cool hopefully charter or comcast dosent screw you arround tonight
<antinobody> You got dapper runner on that thing?  Nice.
<imbrandon> heh yea
<imbrandon> root@svr:/files/brandon# uname -a
<imbrandon> Linux svr.imbrandon.sytes.net 2.6.15-21
<imbrandon> ;)
<\sh> re
<bddebian> wb \sh
<antinobody> Ok, still trying to contribute to the dh_iconcache efforts.  Anyone know how I fix the fact that I have no /usr/share/dpatch folder?  debuild -S is complaining about it
<bddebian> Install dpatch? :)
<imbrandon> debuild -S -sa ? and install dpatch
<antinobody> wow...suddenly I feel slow
<crimsun> no, you need to install dpatch first.
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<imbrandon> well i dident mean in that order ;)
<imbrandon> sorry
<crimsun> 'lo bddebian
<antinobody> Yeah, bddebian is right, I hdn't done that yet
<crimsun> imbrandon: np, that's what happens when I read line-by-line :)
<imbrandon> ok guys i got to get a little more cleaning done, i'll be back in a few hours , bddebian did that kbfx patch look ok once you finaly got a stable connection ?
<antinobody> Hmm... is there a reason I shouldn't make a new gpg key?  The other one's on a computer 45 miles away
<bddebian> imbrandon: WHere did you get kbfx 1.9?
<imbrandon> 4.9.1 and i got it from the official kbfx cvs ( savanna )
<imbrandon> just had to modify the cvs.sh part of the make becouse it was looking for automake 1.6 and ubuntu uses 1.9 othern than that its a clean cvs checkout
<bddebian> imbrandon: OK, that's fine but it would need a UVF exception.  You need to file that on LP
<imbrandon> ok
<imbrandon> once i get back upstairs i will do that
<bddebian> NP
<Kyral> Hey, does anyone know a good GTK reference aside from the Tutorial?
<Kyral> one of my friends is having trouble with the C Bindings to it
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-05
<imbrandon> bddebian, where on launchpad do i go to file a uvf exception
<bddebian> imbrandon: Just file a bug and call it: UVF Exception: kbfx and give the details
<imbrandon> ahh ok, thought i was going insane ;)
<bddebian> imbrandon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/UVFStatus
<antinobody> Hmm, is there anything anyone wants someone with minimal knowledge to do at the moment?
<\sh__> fix bug #1?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu Dapper "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<bddebian> antinobody: Define minimal.  Couldn't be much less than mine
<bddebian> \sh__: ;-P
<antinobody> Oh, call it "learning stage"
<imbrandon> ok how can i generate those files ( the diffstat ? )
<imbrandon> is that what i've been sending you?
<antinobody> I've learned how to package, to a point, and I sent a patch to someone for one of the dh_iconcache updates
<antinobody> I've seen bug #1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu Dapper "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<bddebian> imbrandon: diffstat foo.orig.tar.gz  foo_new.orig.tar.gz
<bddebian> antinobody: You can certainly triage bugs then.  See if you can reproduce them, etc
<imbrandon> k
<antinobody> Ok then, anywhere you want me to start, or just go down the list by severity, reproducing what I can?
<antinobody> That was addressed to bddebian, I'm just not used to IRC chatting yet
<bddebian> antinobody: You can either pick a package you know or run down the list, whatever you are comfortable with.
<imbrandon> bddebian, this dont look normal ........
<imbrandon> root@delean:/devel/kbfx# diffstat kbfx_0.4.8+cvs20060413.orig.tar.gz kbfx_0.4.9.1ubuntu1.tar.gz
<imbrandon>  ERROR, |   22 ---
<imbrandon>  used,  |  391 ++---------------------------------------!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<antinobody> bddebian:  All right, will do.
<imbrandon>  2 files changed, 14 insertions(+), 260 deletions(-), 139 modifications(!)
<imbrandon> no output or anything ( guessing becouse of the errors 22 )
<bddebian> imbrandon: Yeah that is a strange one
<bddebian> Sorry gang, have to head out again for a bit, bbiaw
<imbrandon> kk l8tr
<\sh> bddebian: https://launchpad.net/bugs/41537 are there no python2.4 packages which you can use as replacement deps?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41537 in python2.3-psycopg "[UNMETDEPS]  xsim has unmet dependencies" [Normal,Needs info] 
<\sh> or change them directly to python2.4 conform packages :)
<whiprush> good evening everyone
<\sh> hey whiprush
<antinobody> hello
<Kyral> hmm, this is random...
<Kyral> but does anyone know why most configuration files on Unix are called *rc?
<Kyral> like .bashrc, .vimrc, .conkyrc?
<\sh> why not ;)
<Kyral> I dunno...it just occurred to me that its a common denomenator and it got me wondering what does "rc" stand for
<crimsun> mm hackety hack.
<crimsun> for i in *; do dpatch patch-template -p "$(echo $i)" "$(grep ^Subject $i|awk -F "Subject: \[PATCH\]  \[UBUNTU alsa-lib\]  " '{ print $2 }')" <$(echo $i)>"$(echo $i).dpatch"; done
<\sh> rc could be ressource configuration ?
<Kyral> That could be it, would also explain the acronym for BSD-style init
<Kyral> Why I think of these things I will never know
<\sh> lol
<Kyral> Well, lets just decide that we think it stands for "Resource Configuration" and until someone else who was actually around when the acronym first appeared shows up and proves us wrong, then its right :P
<\sh> RC is normally Release Candidate...but .bashrc named as .bash release candidate...no :)
<\sh> runtime configuration could also be possible
<LaserJock> I think it is Random Configuration ;-)
<Kyral> That also sounds better
<Kyral> runtime config
<Kyral> grr, my server is acting up
<Kyral> Domain 0 will randomly lose internet access
<Kyral> but the rest of them will function fine
<Kyral> which is REALLY wierd since Domain 0 acts as the NAT router for the others
<LaserJock> Kyral: still running that Xen stuff?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> but it doesn't have any sign of being compromised
<Kyral> was any kind of update in Breezy recently that would have restored /lib/tls?
<LaserJock> I got a beta of Parallels Workstation which is a virtualizatoin for x86 macs
<LaserJock> seems to work nice
<Kyral> I have half a mind to switch the hypervisor over to ArchLinux when I upgrade to Xen 3
<whiprush> so hey I've been relearning packinging this weekend.
<whiprush> do you guys do anything special as far as figuring out build deps?
<whiprush> or do you just note them as you build the package?
<whiprush> btw, the new ubuntu packaging guide is awesome.
<Kyral> whiprush: run it in pbuilder without anything listed then see what configure bitches about?
<whiprush> yeah that's what I've been doing.
<whiprush> wondering if that's the smartest way
<crimsun> most upstream tarballs come with an INSTALL and/or README that list build dependencies
<whiprush> ok so there's no automated way, you just need to read the upstream docs and see what pbuilder complains about?
<crimsun> as you work through packaging, you'll get to known which -dev packages correspond to which names
<whiprush> I found some script in the debian new maintainers guide, but it was ... uh ... not optimal.
<Kyral> I was planning on redoing Domain 0 anyway....
<crimsun> I've never used an automated means, but that certainly doesn't preclude its existence
<Kyral> I think the Domains would prefer having physical partitions backing them :P
<whiprush> crimsun: yeah I'm sure just experience with certain packages is the key.
<whiprush> I just chuckle because it takes me a good afternoon to do a simple package.
<whiprush> and the desktop team can crank out the entire desktop in a few hours, heh.
<LaserJock> whiprush: if you have any problems or comments about the Packaging Guide please send a note to me or the docteam ML
* Kyral wonders how long it would take him to make his distro work
<whiprush> LaserJock: I found it to be very well done. Are you guys planning on publishing it for dapper?
<whiprush> I noticed it was a draft still
<LaserJock> whiprush: it is already shipped in the ubuntu-docs package so it is in the Gnome help
<whiprush> cool
<LaserJock> whiprush: it is also on doc.ubuntu.com (which will go to help.ubuntu.com when dapper is releasd)
<whiprush> yeah I found it on doc.u.c
<LaserJock> whiprush: and in a little bit you will be able to get print copy lulu.com
<whiprush> metal.
<LaserJock> I'm actually looking at the first test copy right now
<LaserJock> it should be < $10USD because we are waiving royalties (and lulu waives there charges) so it is just the cost of printing and shipping
<whiprush> that price sounds reasonable
<LaserJock> ack stupid homonyms s/there/their/
<LaserJock> whiprush: all shipped Ubuntu (and Kubuntu) documentation will be available
<LaserJock> we just started the project a week or two ago
<whiprush> that's sweet dude
<LaserJock> I think so.
<LaserJock> I like having print copies around
<LaserJock> and the packaging guide wouldn't sell enough copies (I don't think) for a normal publisher to be interested
<crimsun> jmg: give me a chance to finalise alsa-lib_1.0.10-2ubuntu2 first, please
<jmg> crimsun: cool
<jmg> how much of debian policy applies to universe?
<jmg> all of it?
<crimsun> what's in question?
<jmg> upstream changelog:   * Remove libxen packages (no stable API/ABI)
<jmg> They've marked the library packages (previously nicely seperated) as "conflicts"
<jmg> Seems pretty hackish.
<jmg> (by julien)
<crimsun> well, we use DP as a fairly strict guideline, but that doesn't mean there're no exceptions.
<jmg> it kind of makes sense as they are tied together in xen-utils
<crimsun> frankly if you're willing to lead the maintenance work, you can deviate, but well, for your sanity you may not wish to
<jmg> just now we have xen-utils installing into python, which i dont like
<jmg> *sigh*
<jmg> pkg-xen torpedoed all the libxen stuff and rolled everything into xen-utils
<bddebian> Should python deps be version dependent?
<jmg> yeah
<bddebian> I.E. urlgrabber has Deps: python2.3-dev python   Isn't that wrong?  Or does it just need a rebuild?
<jmg> bddebian: it should support python2.? in building
<bddebian> jmg: ?
<jmg> bddebian: and hopefully yes
<jmg> (it just needs a rebuild)
<bddebian> But "python" is going to grab 2.4 in Ubuntu isn't it?  So I would get python 2.4 with python2.3-dev wouldn't I?
<jmg> nah it would get python2.3-dev
<jmg> it needs to depend python2.?-dev
<jmg> iirc
<bddebian> Gah
<crimsun> bddebian: eh? we're still there in -devel
<bddebian> I know python2.3-dev is going to get python2.3-dev.  But python is going to try to pull python2.4 isn't it?
<bddebian> crimsun: You are but none of the people that typically ignore me are :-)
<jmg> yeah it will
<bddebian> So then, that is broken isn't it?
<jmg> yes but it presumably just needs a rebuild
<bddebian> jmg: Aw, shit, I'm talking about build-deps not deps, sorry
<crimsun> does it b-d explicitly on python2.3-dev?
<bddebian> crimsun: Yes build-dep: python python2.3-dev
<crimsun> you can get away with making the latter python2.4-dev
<bddebian> I know but what is the most correct?
<bddebian> Regardless of what Kamion says, I do want to try to do "the right thing"
<crimsun> python and python-dev will work
<crimsun> it will pull python2.3 and python2.3-dev in Debian and python2.4 and python2.4-dev in Dapper
<crimsun> but--
<bddebian> Does it work with both? ;-P
<crimsun> s/but--//g
<crimsun> I can't test currently
<crimsun> if you're unsure, test it with 2.4
<bddebian> Hmm, seems to work
<bddebian> Hmm, do I dare upload
<bmonty> bddebian: if it makes you feel any better I've taken the python2.3 binaries out of a couple packages already when build-deps aren't available
<bddebian> bmonty: It's not that man, I'm just pissed off I guess
<bmonty> bddebian: why, what happened?
<zul_> what happened?
<bddebian> bmonty: I had probably better not talk about it or I will offend some
<zul_> blah...
<sn9> quick question: is there a channel for requesting a backport (of a non-universe pkg)?
<robitaille> there is a backport mailing list....not sure about an IRC channel
<robitaille> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-backports
<Lathiat> is approval require to bring in a brand new package?
<sn9> i've been told the version of dbus in breezy in fundamentally incompatible with the version of hal in breezy
<Lathiat> thats ridiculous :)
<Lathiat> because hal is isntalled and works by default :)
<sn9> doesn't work for me
<sn9> dbus, that is. hal is ok
<sn9> i think
<ajmitch> something as central as dbus to the desktop would not be backported
<sn9> so there's no way to get gnome-vfs working without going to dapper completely?
<ajmitch> gnome-vfs should work just fine in breezy, and does so for many people
<sn9> and it used to work for me, but it was very flaky and finally broke altogether
<sn9> now, nautilus can't recognize when removable media is mounted
<sn9> nobody seems to know anything about this problem is #ubuntu, so i went to #gnome on GIMPNet, and that's where i was told that hal 0.5 requires dbus 0.50 or later
<robitaille> sn9 maybe it's time you try Dapper?  The release is getting quite closer.  It's most probably a simpler route than trying to backport or convince someelse to backport dbus
<sn9> i'm already using the kernel and udev from dapper
<sn9> installed breezy in july
<sn9> a day or two prior to the breezy release, a ton of packages got pushed to the repos, and a few dependencies broke that were never fixed
<zakame> hi all
<LaserJock> hi zakame
<zakame> hello LaserJock
<zakame> ooh gnome-ppp doesn't work again
<zakame> bug 42055
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42055 in gnome-ppp "Latest update breaks functionality" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42055
<zakame> considering this is O in debian, I guess I ought to pick it up =)
<zakame> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey zakame
<zakame> ooh Ubuntu French Kiss, eh?
<Hobbsee> zakame: er, what?
<zakame> Hobbsee: reading from sounder
<Hobbsee> oh ok
<zakame> then again, we do have an fkiss package
* Hobbsee doesnt want to be part of any ubuntu french kissing thanks :P
<Hobbsee> we have many interestingly named packages...
<zakame> lol
<Tonio_> hi
<tiCo89> hello
<tiCo89> somebody time to sponsor packages?
<Hobbsee> tiCo89: StevenK might
<StevenK> I might now.
* StevenK was off playing Playstation.
<StevenK> tiCo89: Please don't /query me. You can just ask here.
<tiCo89> kk
<tiCo89> also...
<StevenK> That not so much a sponsor, but a sync request.
<StevenK> It may also require a UVF exception.
<tiCo89> can you copy libezV24 from debian and then add cobex to ubuntu? : http://www.marioiseli.com/~mario/dpkgs/UploadQueue/
<StevenK> This late in the release, I doubt it.
<StevenK> libezV24 might get sync'd, but I doubt very strongly new packages will find their way in.
<\sh> moins
* StevenK waves to \sh.
<\sh> guys, where is the unmet deps list? give me some packages to work on :)
<StevenK> \sh: In the topic.
<blaamann> I tried to update and the complete universe three is emty for no.archive.ubuntu.com e.g look in http://no.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy-updates/universe/source/
<blaamann> Seems like it has been empty for a day or two
<blaamann> And I can see that the other threes are empty as well
<blaamann> E.g http://no.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy-updates/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz is not there
<\sh> blaamann: please ask the sysadmins of this mirror or elmo/znarl on #ubuntu-devel
<blaamann> \sh: Didn't know who to ask, I will try #ubuntu-devel
<\sh> blaamann: elmo and znwal are the sysadmins and can tell you more about it...
<\sh> hey barry
<blaamann>  \sh: Thanks
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi Stephan
<StevenK> blaamann: I'd mail the sysadmins of the no.a.u.c mirror
<\sh> bddebian: please give me some packages (for later) to work on unmet deps...
<\sh> bddebian: I saw that you are world champion for those packages :)
<bddebian> Well not if you ask Kamion :-)
<StevenK> \sh: That's what the topic is for: http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS)
<\sh> StevenK: yes :) I found the list :)
<\sh> StevenK: but I don't want to take packages where bddebian is already working on :)
<\sh> fai is not solvable, until fai-kernels are entering the archives.....whereas, this kernel package has nothing to do with standard boot kernels, because they are only used for booting fai install clients...
<StevenK> I've taken two, but I've at least commented on them.
<\sh> the only good solution for fai would be to recommend fai-kernels and remove the dependency on it
<bddebian> \sh: Take anything that you want on that list
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Except maybe matplotlib.  I have a solution, I just need some answers :-)
<bddebian> \sh: Take a look at swingwt, I think it should be fixable
<zul> for the icon cache stuff, you just add dh_iconcache to the debian/rules file
<\sh> bddebian: just have a look on yum (actually I need it for my project as well :))
<bddebian> \sh: I just uploaded what should be a depends for yum last night so it might be fixable.  Give it a shot :-)
<zul> \sh: swingt looks like its stuck in the builds
<\sh> python-urlgrabber (source urlgrabber) is somehow not available, or do I miss something there?
<bddebian> OK, so I was playing with mozilla-locales-ru last night and now I can't get rid of the damn thing and it's hosing any of my other installs :-(
<bddebian> \sh: I just uploaded a new urlgrabber last night??  Hmm, maybe it failed?
<bddebian> zul: Yes, just add dh_iconcache to debian/rules
<zul> okie dokie...ill guess ill work my way from the bottom and work my way up
<\sh> bddebian: no..just had to update my packages.gz :)
<\sh> bddebian: problems with the libswt3.1 libs
<bddebian> Ayew
<bddebian> There is a newer version in the archive
<bddebian> Any ideas how I can remove the mozilla-locales-ru?
<zul> purge?
<bddebian> Tried that
<kelmo_lap> what error do you get
<bddebian> Look at this crap:
<bddebian> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13143
<bddebian> kelmo_lap: ^
<bddebian> \sh: Oh yeah, you can have ANY of the *-locales-* crap on Unmet Deps :-)
<kelmo_lap> well. i coud inly suggest crude hacks for that, not knowing the software at all
<\sh> bddebian: lol
<kelmo_lap> only*
<ivoks> \sh: hello :)
<ivoks> \sh: how are you?
<\sh> ivoks: fine :)
<zakame> bug 42055, I do need a MOTU UVF exception to update to 0.3.23, right?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42055 in gnome-ppp "Latest update breaks functionality" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42055
<zakame> do note gnome-ppp is orphaned in debian
<\sh> zakame: did you take it over from the old maintainer? :)
<zakame> \sh: I've yet to post an RFA in wnpp, but I'm working on packaging the new upstream now
<bmonty> bddebian: ping
<paniq> hey, where can i get libneon 0.25.5 from?
<bddebian> paniq: Debian has it
<bddebian> In unstable
<paniq> thanks
<paniq> now if i only know how to get it ;)
<paniq> -o+e
<crimsun> you'll want to compile it in a Ubuntu pbuilder
<slomo_> paniq: why do you want it? gst-plugins-bad? ;) you could file a uvf exception and hope to get it into dapper
<paniq> bmpx
<crimsun> there is a uvfe req for libneon already
<paniq> i actually only want it to satisfy bmpx :>
<crimsun> paniq: it's not a hard dependency; I spoke with deadchip about this weeks ago
<paniq> yes, but it has support for icecast and so on... i would want to use that.
<paniq> i suppose if i obtain the .deb and install that one it will do for now
<bddebian> paniq: Just pull the .dsc, orig.tar.gz and diff.tar.gz from packages.debian.org
<bddebian> Then dpkg-source -x foo.dsc
<bddebian> Then build it :-)
<bddebian> OK, off to honey-dos, later folks
<siretart> could someone please try to install python-urlgrabber in dapper?
<siretart> does that work for you?
<\sh> yepp
<siretart> oh, hey \sh! :)
<\sh> siretart: apt-get update :) didn't find it this morning :) but I think barry uploaded a new one last night
<siretart> hm. I keep on getting 'no candidate for 'python-urlgrabber'
<\sh> Need to get 61.5kB of archives.
<\sh> After unpacking 270kB of additional disk space will be used.
<\sh> Get: 1 http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe python-urlgrabber 2.9.7-2ubuntu1 [61.5kB] 
<\sh> Fetched 61.5kB in 0s (118kB/s)
<\sh> Selecting previously deselected package python-urlgrabber.
<\sh> (Reading database ... 105953 files and directories currently installed.)
<siretart> hmm
<siretart> verry strange
<siretart> let's try another mirror. perhaps de.archive.ubuntu.com has problems (again)
<\sh> I'm just using archive.ubuntu.com without the local mirrors...
<siretart> interesting. de.archive.ubuntu.com seems to lag a bit
<siretart> ok. was a local mirror problem
<bmonty> anyone done a dist-upgrade to dapper from a breezy server install?  if so, how did it go?
<alexr> Hi there
<alexr> Can anybody help us place the newly release gramps2.0.11 into the universe, in time for Dapper?
<dallingham> alexr and I would like to know if it is too late to get gramps updated for dapper.
<carsten> And I would like to support dallingham and alexr
<carsten> :)
<LaserJock> well, Dapper is pretty much frozen
<carsten> well, .11 fixes about 20 bugs compared to .9 without introducing new things :-) /me hides
<LaserJock> carsten: oh, that is nice
<dallingham> LaserJock: GRAMPS 2.0.11 is essentially a bug fix release.
<dallingham> As was 2.0.10
<dallingham> We are feature frozen as well, with all of our new development going into a 2.2 branch.
<LaserJock> ok, so you need to do a Upstream Version Freeze (UVF) excemption request
<carsten> dallingham: if you don#t have a launchpad-account: I have
<dallingham> carsten: I don't have a launchpad-account.
<carsten> want me to do it?
<dallingham> If you would, I would appreciate it.
<carsten> good
<dallingham> Thanks.
<LaserJock> sorry guys but I've got to go, but maybe another MOTU can help you out.
<carsten> sure
<LaserJock> but if you file a bug with a changelog, etc. and assign it to the motu-uvf launchpad team
<LaserJock> that will get you started
<LaserJock> check out https://launchpad.net/people/motu-uvf/+assignedbugs for examples
<carsten> Perhaps I am blind, but I don't see how I can assing a bug to the motu-uvf team. This is my report: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gramps/+bug/42270
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42270 in gramps "Upstream Version Freeze exception for 2.0.11" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<vud1> hi.. i am doing a package.. but i have a problem
<vud1> it is like... the old version files doesnt are removed and changed by the new
<vud1> i dont understand :(
<vud1> i am using dh_clean in the rules files.. but it doesnt seem be enought
<Gloubiboulga> vud1, which files are modified?
<dolson> uh, I guess there's some kind of problem with xchat-gnome because this is the second time that it's disconnected me without me noticing
<dolson> not even disconnected, it just quit
<vud1> Gloubiboulga: python files.. code files
<vud1> it is strange.. becouse in de package-version dir, the changes are ok
<vud1> but in the package-version/debian/package dir.. are the old files
<vud1> :?
<Gloubiboulga> I don't really understand what happens, could you upload the source package somewhere?
<vud1> yes.. 1 minute, i upload it to my server
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<alexr> vud1: are you talking about gramps?
<alexr> vud1: if so, 2.0.11 has a change compared to 2.0.9: the man files moved from doc to doc/man
<vud1> Gloubiboulga: wget http://www.e-oss.net/pytrainer-deb.tar.gz
<vud1> Gloubiboulga: look at the main.py file
<Gloubiboulga> ok, looking
<Gloubiboulga> it's modified during the build?
<vud1> the package-version/pytrainer/main.py and package-version/debian/pytrainer/pytrainer-0.9.3/debian/pytrainer/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/pytrainer/main.py are differents :(
<vud1> modified not.. is like.. the debian/... version is the old one
<vud1> mmm
<vud1> perhaps is the setup.py?
<vud1> i dont know
<Gloubiboulga> I've broken dpkg...
<vud1> broken?
<Gloubiboulga> yep, I tried to install xvfb and there's a conflict with kaudiocreator
<vud1> orf
<vud1> mmm
<vud1> :(
<vud1> well i am going to continue looking for the problem
<vud1> thanks a lot :)
<Gloubiboulga> I'll have a look as soon as I have fixed my problem...
<Gloubiboulga> vud1, your main.py file seems installed in a strange directory btw
<Gloubiboulga> you have 2 debian/ subfolders
<vud1> mmm
<vud1> i am going to see that
<vud1> mm
<vud1> what are the 2 subfolders?
<Gloubiboulga> you've wrote: package-version/debian/pytrainer/pytrainer-0.9.3/debian/pytrainer/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/pytrainer/main.py
<vud1> ah yeah
<vud1> was a paste mistake
<vud1> sorry
<vud1> :D
<Gloubiboulga> ok :)
<vud1> the correct paste is..
<vud1> debian/pytrainer/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/pytrainer/main.py
<Gloubiboulga> vud1, I'm sorry, I can't test the build, my system is too broken :/
<vud1> :(
<vud1> thans anyway..
<vud1> only one question
<vud1> the lintian command said me this:
<vud1> pytrainer source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<vud1> N:
<vud1> No1Viking:   When you NMU a package, that fact should be mentioned on the first
<vud1> No1Viking:   line in the changelog entry.
<vud1> ..
<sivang> guys, is here anything that can be done to get some of you to praise me on universe upload right application? I've seen some mergers going etc?
<vud1> what is NMU?
<Gloubiboulga> vud1, Non Maintainer Upload, it's not a problem in ubuntu
<\sh> non maintainer upload
<No1Viking> vud1, What?
<Gloubiboulga> it's debian specific
<phanatic> hi people
<Gloubiboulga> hey phanatic
<vud1> aaah ok
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga
<phanatic> Gloubiboulga: are you comin to paris?
<Gloubiboulga> phanatic, I think so
<phanatic> would be great to meet there in personal :)
<Gloubiboulga> phanatic, indeed, will you come?
<phanatic> Gloubiboulga: i hope to get some sponsorship. i'd like to go...
* sivang notes it would be great to meet all the french mafia there and learn some french :-)
<Gloubiboulga> phanatic, that'd be really great
<phanatic> sivang: are they that criminal? :)
<sivang> phanatic: well, they commit crimes only against bugs :-)
<sivang> phanatic: the leaders are seb128, dhloback and vntz
<sivang> vunts, event
<phanatic> sivang: i see... but bugfixing isn't a crime :)
<sivang> phanatic: well, it's a good crime :)
<phanatic> sivang: i agree :)
<ispiked> does Jonas Smedegaard come on irc?
<azeem> ispiked: why?
<ispiked> azeem: I just wanted to ask him something.
<azeem> didn't know he was doing Ubuntu
<ispiked> azeem: well, he was listed as a package maintainer for python-id3lib.
<azeem> yes, he is the Debian maintainer
<ispiked> azeem: oh, ok.
<azeem> Ubuntu MOTU is the point of contact for Ubuntu issues, though
<ispiked> anyway, you might be able to answer my question. that python module is written in c#. how is it compiled and run on ubuntu sysems when they don't ship mono.
<ispiked> packages are compiled on the system they're made on, right?
<azeem> ispiked: are you sure it is written in c#?
<ispiked> azeem: yes. I'm looking at the source code.
<azeem> ispiked: packages are compiled on the Ubuntu build machines
<ispiked> azeem: how could the module run without .net dependencies?
<azeem> ispiked: it looks like c++ to me
<ispiked> yeah, I think you're right. :P
<ispiked> having it named with .cc threw me off.
<azeem> c# sources have .cs as extension I think
<ispiked> yeah, good point.
<ispiked> ok, well that answers my question.
<vud1> there are any web to see the packages avaliable in ubuntu?
<ispiked> vud1: packages.ubuntu.com maybe.
<vud1> thanks :)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-06
<dieta> Hello
* Mongoose is away: /_\ zzZzZZZZzz
<bmonty> anyone know why pbuilder would install a package (libssl-dev) and then remove it?
<\sh> bmonty: how do you mean "install it and directly remove it?"
<bmonty> \sh: in installing the build-deps it installs libssl-dev and then later I see the package being removed
<\sh> but before the source actually is compiled?
<bmonty> yes
<bmonty> I'm trying to rebuild freeradius with EAP-TLS and TTLS enabled
<\sh> strange...
<bmonty> could it be that one of the build-deps conflicts with libssl-dev?
<bmonty> is there a way I can "force" pbuilder to ignore an error with build-dep install?
<bmonty> I figured it out....libssl-dev was listed as a build conflict
<bddebian> What's up folks?
<J_P> hi all
<Laser_away> bddebian: absolutely nothing here, apparently ;-)
<bddebian> Laser_away: Ahh
<crimsun> which is a good thing, since I have four finals to give this coming week.
<bddebian> Doh
<bddebian> I'm looking at xfce4-wavelan-plugin :-(
<Laser_away> hmm, for some odd reason my nvidia card doesn't work
<bddebian> Ack, where the hell is this thing picking up aclocal-1.8
<zul> heylo
<zul> all of those builddepends bugs have been taken care of?
<zul> oh wait never mind..there is just more bugs
<bddebian> Unmet Deps?  Hell no :-(
<bddebian> I'm playing with xfce4-wavelan-plugin now but failing :'-(
<bddebian> Who's the xfce guru around here..
<zul> im thinking the xubuntu guys
<bddebian> zul: Yeah, but who are they? :-)
<zul> #xubuntu
<bddebian> Is there a #xubuntu-dev?
<zul> doesnt look like it
<Laser_away> bddebian: janimo is who you want
<bddebian> Ah
<Laser_away> bddebian: although I think crimsun works on xfce stuff as well
<bddebian> I thought so too
<bddebian> But crimsun hates me ;-P
<zul> gah?
<Hobbsee> hi everyone
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian :)
<crimsun> bddebian: you should just apply for main. That would resolve such issues. :)
<bddebian> crimsun: I'd love to but I don't think I'm on the favored list :-)
<bddebian> Heya tuxmaniac
<crimsun> bah, there's no favoured list :)
<crimsun> besides, you have enough good will from breezy
<bddebian> I do?
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Hi. Whats the favoured list all abt? Can i know?
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: Inside joke.  crimsun says I should shoot for main uploader, but I usually just annoy those poor folks :-(
<tuxmaniac> :))
* bddebian thinks crimsun was pulling his chain anyway
<tuxmaniac> Guys did u see a bug report from one Richard Feynman!!!!
<tuxmaniac> bug 42283
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42283 in vim-latexsuite "not possible to launch evince as dvi viewer programm out of gvim latexsuite" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42283
<tuxmaniac> Hope you guys know what I am thinking!! :)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: It works for me or I mean I have not understood the bug!!!
<tuxmaniac> He asks me to open a .tex file in gvim out of nautilus!!!
<bddebian> Sorry man, it's 1:30am, I'm fading fast
<tuxmaniac> Oh ok. Sorry bddebian
<tuxmaniac> Its 10:50 AM here :)
<bddebian> NP :-)
<sivang> morning all
<kelmo> hi siretart, all
<siretart> hey kelmo
<kelmo> siretart: nice wiki page
<sivang> hey siretart , kelmo
<siretart> kelmo: thanks :)
<kelmo> siretart: thanks a lot!
<Tonio_> hi everyone
<sivang> kelmo: which wiki page?
<kelmo> hi sivang
<kelmo> wiki.debian.org/WPA
<siretart> I wanted to do something about the empty alioth page, and decided to create a wiki page instead
<Tonio_> siretart: how long will we be able to make uvf exceptions ?
<kelmo> siretart: which is perfect
<siretart> Tonio_: we don't actually have a deadline, but I think that we 3 will keep on focusing more and more on bugs than on uvf exceptions
<Tonio_> siretart: we have an updated version of knetworkmanager but since we're waiting informations upstream, I'like to anticipate not to be too late :)
<Tonio_> siretart: ok, that's just since knetworkmanager is a big feature for kubuntu so.... may I ping you when uvfe is online ? :)
<siretart> Tonio_: if you think that knetworkmanager needs an exception, just add the information we need, along with some sort of risk analysis
<Tonio_> siretart: sure ;)
<siretart> Tonio_: I'll get an email as soon as you assign that bug to motu-uvf
<sivang> siretart: are you a DD already?
<siretart> sivang: no, still waiting on AM assignment :(
<Tonio_> siretart: ah, true, I forgot you got emails for this... (stupid myself !)
<sivang> siretart: ah, nice to know you've already gone through all the other administrativa :-)
<sivang> siretart: epsecially, the techincal inquery
* Mongoose is away: /_\ zzZzZZZZzz
<siretart> sivang: err, the AM does the P&P and T&S inquery, I've only been advocated so far
<ivoks> did anyone did translations with rosetta?
<sivang> siretart: ah, woops, sorry. I'm sure you'll make it thouhg :)
<vud1> hi. I am reading all the possible rols ubuntu contributors.. and i see that there are de uploaders, de reviewers and the motus, arent they?
<G0SUB> sivang
<vud1> but i havent a clear idea about the diference between the motus and the reviewers one
<sivang> G0SUB: ?
<G0SUB> sivang: how are you ?
<\sh> moins
<sivang> G0SUB: fine, and you?
<G0SUB> sivang: I am ok too!
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> hi all
<Gloubiboulga> hi zakame
<G0SUB> Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hello G0SUB :)
<G0SUB> Gloubiboulga: hi!
<zul> heylo
<phanatic> hi people
<Gloubiboulga> phanatic, zul, hello
<jpatrick> hello *
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga
<Hobbsee> hey all
<Kyral> RPI?
* Kyral growls low
* Hobbsee prods Kyral 
<Kyral> yes?
* Hobbsee waves
<Kyral> Hey
* Hobbsee didnt really have anything else to say, just hello
<Kyral> I apologize for my behavior
<Hobbsee> Kyral: oh?  which was this?
<Kyral> but if the RPI in his hostmask means Rochester Polytech Instutute, then I have a minor annoyance with him
<Kyral> Being that I hail from Clarkson Univerisity, and we are rivals
<tseng> hm didnt clarkson have some kind of big linux project
<tseng> i forget what it was about, some custom distro
<Kyral> Xen based, but Ed kinda went AWOL on us
<Kyral> Xen Breezy
<tseng> no before that
<tseng> a few years ago
<Kyral> Dunno, I'm only a Sopomore
<tseng> i think it was based on gentoo
<Kyral> I think someone was working on a frontend to Portage
<Kyral> you can check the COSI webpage if you are really interested, we archive EVERYTHING
<Kyral> cosi.clarkson.edu
<jpatrick> must have a lot of free space
<Kyral> but more recently, Clarkson took 1st and 2nd place in Tuxmasters
<tseng> that only goes back to 2005
<Kyral> *shrug*
<Kyral> I recall seeing a machine labelled for the purpose before we started cleaning out the other day
<tseng> Pen2 Gentoo Installer
<Kyral> yea! Labs getting renovated, HAPPY!!
<tseng> that was it
<Kyral> It was prolly Rouslan's way to automate the installation of the old lab build, which ran Gentoo
<tseng> no, it was just your generic gui installer
* Kyral shrugs
<tseng> it was okayish
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> I mean, I'm gonna try to create a custom distro on my own, just to see if I can actually do it
<Kyral> COSI: Defying Convention 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, 367 days a year
<tseng> modifying ubuntu is too easy to bother with anything else
<Kyral> Yanno, I had a working Lab Build based on Ubuntu
<Kyral> but the day before we were set to install it
<Kyral> they were like "well, we are gonna try Fedora for a day"
<tseng> ...
<Kyral> and next thing I knew my work was sent to /dev/null
<Kyral> The general opinion of Ubuntu in the COSI is very low
<Kyral> I mean they support the whole newbie friendly thing, but as a distro for technically proficient people, the opinion is very low
<Kyral> Then again a bunch of people still run it on laptops because its fire and forget and for a system like a laptop, you don't really feel like messing around with configurations
<Kyral> I think right now we have 3 ArchLinux users (including me), 2 - 3 Ubuntu users, and 1 Slackware user
<Kyral> oh and 1 OpenSuSE user
<Kyral> sorry..you got me talking about COSI and I'm passionate about COSI :D
<tseng> putting Open next to SuSE is such a farse
<Kyral> IIRC, they basically did the same thing that RedHat did with Fedora right?
<Kyral> Holy cow, Slack is FINALLY gonna ship a 2.6 kernel by defualt
<tseng> Kyral: with a bit less Open
<Kyral> tseng: ah
<tseng> i dont know of any community contributors
<Kyral> I tried it over the semester, but found it too "top heavy"
<Kyral> yah...this is why I like ArchLinux's AUR
<tseng> i know of a small handful of community fedora members
<Kyral> Its even more open than Debian and Ubuntu when it comes to community
<tseng> being more open
<tseng> than ubuntu is asking for trouble i think
<Kyral> I mean in that you still have to have "Trusted Users" (like MOTU)
<Kyral> but like even untrusted builds are in AUR, (not available via pacman mind you), in the "unsupported" category
<Kyral> people use and vote on them and the TUs mark them safe or not
<Kyral> if a PKGBUILD is safe and gets 25 votes, it winds up in community
<tseng> if you take a look over at the gentoo forums, youll find proof that you can get 25 idiots to agree on anything
<Kyral> lol
<zul> thats why they have gentoo
<tseng> I will let the MOTU and Debian look after my system :)
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> I like the system
<Kyral> granted I haven't tried to push anything through it yet lol
<Kyral> lol, debootstrap is in AUR
<Kyral> Oh well, EXAM TIME
<Hobbsee> hehe...enjoy
<Kyral> Ugh, if that wasn't sarcasm I'd kill you through your monitor
* Hobbsee hides behind ajmitch - dont let him kill me off!
<ajmitch> heh :)
<Mithrandir> ehlo dudes and dudette(s)
<ajmitch> hi Mithrandir
<phanatic> hi Mithrandir :)
<Hobbsee> hey Mithrandir
<jpatrick> Can someone look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2316 ?
<zakame> hi all
<Hobbsee> hi and bye zakame
<zakame> heya Hobbsee!
* Hobbsee beds....night all...
<phanatic> hey zakame
<zakame> heya phanatic!
<phanatic> zakame: i saw you wanna participate in soc :)
<zakame> yup, I am working on a proposal right now :D
<phanatic> just like me :)
<zakame> coolness! :D
<phanatic> i hope you're submitting to ubuntu as well ;)
<zakame> phanatic: yes, actually I am trying to catch ogra to talk about that willow packaging
<phanatic> oh, i see
<zakame> I feel I should do something for edubuntu now :)
<phanatic> zakame: i plan to do some gui development
<zakame> phanatic: coolness!  I haven't gotten around to do GUIs, although I'm now happily trekking down the GTK-tutorial lane
<phanatic> :)
<G0SUB> phanatic
<phanatic> hey G0SUB
<G0SUB> phanatic: doing SoC stuff?
<phanatic> right
<G0SUB> phanatic: well, me too!
<G0SUB> phanatic: I want to do the Samba GUI & the Offline Updater thingy
<phanatic> G0SUB: yeah, i've noticed you're doing offline-update (or update-offline :)), great idea imho
<G0SUB> phanatic: I hope so :)
<G0SUB> phanatic: did you read the spec?
<phanatic> yep
<G0SUB> phanatic: is the spec ok?
<G0SUB> phanatic: what are you working on? Bzr?
<phanatic> G0SUB: i think it's alright
<phanatic> yeah, bzr-gui
<G0SUB> phanatic: excellent
<G0SUB> and zakame ?
<G0SUB> phanatic: why isn't the submission form online yet?
<phanatic> he's working on pachaging willow i think
<phanatic> i don't know... we have time till the 8th anyway :)
* G0SUB would like to submit now ... exams start from 9th
<sivang> phanatic: bzr-gui? in SoC ?
<sivang> phanatic: you have a spec for that?
<phanatic> sivang: yup, http://bazaar-vcs.org/GraphicalUserInterface
<sivang> phanatic: nice, are you already accpeted to do it by google?
<zul> hey hub
<sivang> hmm
<sivang> http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/about.html
<sivang> empty?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<phanatic> sivang: decisions will be made till 22nd may
<phanatic> the application process begins today
<phanatic> hey bddebian :)
<bddebian> Hello phanatic
<sivang> phanatic: can non student people apply?
<phanatic> sivang: you have to be enrolled with a university
<hub> sivang: it is a student project
<hub> sivang: I suspect they get tax credit for that
<hub> sivang: that's why they restrict to students
<hub> at least that is what I think it is, I have no insider information
<phanatic> wb Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> ty phanatic :)
<phanatic> Gloubiboulga: i saw you were accepted as ubuntu developer. congratulations :)
<Gloubiboulga> thanks phanatic :)
<sivang> hub: k, thanks
<G0SUB> sivang: can you review the spec I wrote for my SoC project?
<bddebian> ajmitch_: You around?
<Yagisan> bddebian: it's about 3am in NZ atm, so I expect he is in bed
<bddebian> Well wake his ass up :-)
<bddebian> BTW, Hi Yagisan
<bddebian> Anyone else deal with zope?
<Yagisan> bddebian: it's like a 2-3 hour flight to NZ, then I need to get a connecting flight to south island to do that
<bddebian> Heh
<Yagisan> bddebian: oh, G'day, and no - I'm only a user.
<sivang> G0SUB: sure, send me the link by email
<sivang> G0SUB: sivan@ubuntu.com
<G0SUB> sivang: okay. thanks
<G0SUB> sivang: sent
<phanatic> sivang: will you be a mentor?
<phanatic> (btw is there a list of mentors for ubuntu?)
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<\sh> remoins
<LaserJock> hi \sh
<bddebian> ajmitch: Awake yet? :-)
<bddebian> Where's Daniel been hiding?
<bddebian> LaserJock: How about we just upload xircuit? ;-P
<LaserJock> bddebian: which one?
<bddebian> LaserJock: tuxmaniacs :-)
<LaserJock> umm, no
<bddebian> No?
<LaserJock> I need to look at that. Lintian and linda has some complaints that didn't look trivial
<LaserJock> bddebian: did you look at it?
<bddebian> They are trivial but they should be looked at/fixed since we are jumping Debian
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac said that he though the errors were there before
<bddebian> Because the Debian maintainer is lazy? :-)
<bddebian> It's things like standards version, "Should mention NMU", that type of crap
<hub> hey \sh
<\sh> hey hub :)
<bddebian> Do we have something that can unpack a .jar file?
<hub> bddebian: unzip
<hub> bddebian: .jar is .zip basically
<bddebian> Hmm
<Gloubiboulga> Gnight MOTUs
<bddebian> OK, I'm not touching jython from upstream.. Ugh
<LaserJock> bddebian: do you think the xcircuit on revu is ready to go?
<LaserJock> bddebian: "xcircuit source: build-depends-on-obsolete-package build-depends: xlibs-dev" needs to get fixed
<crimsun> libx11-dev at the very least. In Debian that's a serious bug.
<bddebian> LaserJock: We should probably fix the lintian errors but I don't want to step on tuxmaniacs toes since he did all the work
<LaserJock> bddebian: sure
<LaserJock> bddebian: ack, do we have a UVF exception for xcircuit?
<bddebian> Of course not :-)
<LaserJock> uggh, well at least having a working package should help the process :-)
<bddebian> Yep
<bddebian> If anyone actually looks at the UVF bugs :)
<bddebian> Later folks
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-07
<\sh> ajmitch: gallery is available again...http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/ at the usual place :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<nictuku> hi bddebian!
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Heya nictuku
<bddebian> and ajmitch
<ajmitch> bddebian: you were trying to bug me earlier?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Do you think zope2.8 is worth fixing or should apps be made to build with zope3?
<nictuku> I wonder if I can help with some random bugs. Let me browse them :-)
<ajmitch> if you knew zope, you'd know that's a really really silly question ;)
<ajmitch> no offense, but zope3 is quite a different API
<chillywilly> hi
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well I don't know zope but it's on my unmet deps list :-)
<ajmitch> massive porting work involved
<zul> heylo
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> bddebian: no, it's on my bug list :P
<bddebian> ajmitch: OK
<bddebian> ajmitch: So are you going to replace python2.3-xml with 2.4-xml in zope2.8?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> the only unmet dep bug open for zope2.8 is bug 35998
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 35998 in zope2.8 "zope2.8 uninstallable" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35998
<bddebian> ajmitch: Many of the unmet deps on LP depend on zope2.7 | zope2.8 :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: have you looked at the bug reports for those? most of those I've assigned to me already
<bddebian> When?
<ajmitch> when dholbach did his mass-filinf
<bddebian> Hmm, no I didn't notice that
<bddebian> never mind....
<ajmitch> I appreciate your desire to fix things :)
<ajmitch> but I'm also waiting on bug #39631
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39631 in Ubuntu "sync and removal requests: zope*" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39631
<bddebian> I'm glad someone does :-)
<ajmitch> after that mess settles I can attack the rest
<bddebian> Syncs are never going to happen ;-P
<ajmitch> stop  being so pessimistic
<bddebian> :-)
<ajmitch> I should upload this python2.3-xml to universe now
<ajmitch> & see if it gets through NEW
<bddebian> I thought we were only carrying python2.3 and python2.3-dev?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> since all the zope2.x products require python2.3 & various python2.3-* packages...
<ajmitch> so if you happen to remove one I need... ;)
* nictuku suggest closing bug 3897
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 3897 in apt-listbugs "It always says "No report available:" when you ask for bug details." [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3897
<ajmitch> basically if zope breaks, then plone breaks
<ajmitch> and plone is a very popular CMS
<zul> and people get pissed
<ajmitch> I will
<ajmitch> since I need it for work
<nictuku> can I change the status to "Unconfirmed" myself?
<ajmitch> for edgy it won't matter, but for dapper plone will still run on zope 2.8
<ajmitch> nictuku: you can, but unconfirmed means leaving the bug report open
* StevenK waves to ajmitch.
<StevenK> ... and others.
<ajmitch> morning StevenK
<nictuku> hi StevenK
<StevenK> Does anyone know anything about pkgstriptranslations?
<ajmitch> pitti will :)
<StevenK> I uploaded a new version of ldaptor ripping out the Python2.3 stuff, and fixing, oh three FTBFSes along the way, to end up pkgstriptranslations barfing on my upload and bombing out.
<nictuku> I could not reproduce bug #6124
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6124 in beep-media-player "beep media player playlist clik makes system freeze after program reopen" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6124
<ajmitch> StevenK: ok, I'll get round to killing you later then
<StevenK> Oh?
<ajmitch> ;)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Bring it on. :-P
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I'll probably be visiting in june/july :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: If it's June, you can come to my birthday bash.
<crimsun> nictuku: please note it as a comment.
<ajmitch> StevenK: late june
<StevenK> Aw
<ajmitch> StevenK: when's your birthday?
<StevenK> Early June.
<nictuku> crimsun, I did.
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> mine as well
<nictuku> I was wondering what you guys do with old, unreproductible bugs
<StevenK> ajmitch: 8th. You?
<ajmitch> 12th
<StevenK> Ohhhh, look at all of the zope stuff in UNMETDEPS.
<ajmitch> look at how many are assigned to me
<ajmitch> most of those are because zope2.7 & 2.8 are uninstallable
<crimsun> leave them
<ajmitch> due to python2.3 packages being mercilessly ripped out
<crimsun> nictuku: leave them
<StevenK> ajmitch: Ahh.
<StevenK> python2.1 is also uninstallable.
<ajmitch> hence my threats of further maiming ;)
<ajmitch> python2.1 is horribly out of date
<ajmitch> python2.5 alpha 2 is already out
<StevenK> Should we just punt python2.1 from the archive?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> it's already being discussed, I think
* StevenK nods.
<ajmitch> I wonder where my upload went
<ajmitch> it hasn't been quite 30 minutes, but still..
<StevenK> It looks like most of the UNMETDEPS bugs have already been claimed.
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> you have to get in quick around here
<ajmitch> don't worry, there's 10K other open bugs for you
<StevenK> Reckon
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> ajmitch: Won't they work with python2.4?
<bddebian> 2.1 needs removed
<ajmitch> bddebian: zope2.8 & below only support up to python 2.3
<bddebian> Bummin
<StevenK> Wheee.
<ajmitch> zope 2.9 requires python 2.4.2+
<StevenK> "interchange packages require non-threaded perl"
<StevenK> Mmmm, yummy.
<ajmitch> in other words, their code is broken enough to trip up on a threaded perl :)
<StevenK> Yup.
<StevenK> I wonder if I need a UVF for a package that FTBFS, which I'd like to get synced from Debian.
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> if it's a new upstream version, then always yes :)
<ajmitch> the fact that it FTBFS just makes things a bit easier to explain
<StevenK> ajmitch: The version in question is already in the archive, it just fails to build.
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> then if you're not getting a new upstream, just ask for a sync :)
* StevenK nods.
<ajmitch> simple :)
<ajmitch> what matters is the source package version in the archive
<StevenK> It's one of doko's packages, and he asked me, "When you upload it, can you put your name in the Maintainer field." :-)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> what package is it?
<StevenK> spe
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> maybe this upload has caught another soyuz bug ;)
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> Awww, Warty is still marked as SUPPORTED.
<ajmitch> kill it
<ajmitch> now
<bddebian> heh
* nictuku is hoping soon to apply to be a MOTU
<ajmitch> nictuku: what packaging work have you done?
<StevenK> ajmitch: It was supposed to be EoL'd on the 30th, IIRC.
<ajmitch> StevenK: exactly. someone's sleeping on the job
<StevenK> Ah.
<nictuku> ajmitch, I've packaged pycacic and nwu from scratch (both are in revu), and I've done some small fixes here and there. I'm working to improve those skills, though
<ajmitch> do you think that is enough to be given unrestrained upload rights to universe? :)
<nictuku> no. :-)
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> then how soon is soon? :)
<nictuku> that's why I said "hoping to apply soon".
<nictuku> when I feel very comfortable with packaging
<ajmitch> and can quote debian policy backwards, like StevenK?
* StevenK lala's quietly.
<zul> eh? the standard's have been raised since i have become a motu?
<zul> :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<nictuku> maybe that is a test for my enthusiasm
<ajmitch> pass the initiation of the MOTUs? ;)
<zul> is that like the stonecutters?
<StevenK> Just wait until mako shines his spotlight in your eyes.
<ajmitch> what about the comfy chair?
<nictuku> at least I've walked some way in the process, since I managed to be a member.
<StevenK> No comfy chair. It's in a bare room with a large spotlight and water dripping onto your head.
<ajmitch> hey zakame
<ajmitch> StevenK: no cushions?
<StevenK> You're lucky if the back of the chair doesn't fall off.
<ajmitch> heh
<zakame> heya ajmitch!
<ajmitch> nictuku: see what fun it'll be to join the MOTUs?
<nictuku> well someone has to update the MOTU recruitment wiki. It is too friendly, I guess.
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> no sense of impending doom at all
<zakame> nictuku: needing your love? =)
<bddebian> Hmm
<nictuku> I could stand some sticks under my nails. I really want to help
* StevenK prepares the tor^WMOTU recruitment chamber.
<zul> heh...motu's keep the metric system down, hold back the electric car...we do we do
<ajmitch> :)
<bddebian> StevenK: :-)
<ajmitch> StevenK: so do you want to meet up for a beer^Wkeysigning in july?
<zakame> indeed indeed
<ajmitch> I think I'll be in sydney for a week or two
<StevenK> ajmitch: Sounds good. I might have to drag you over to my place for dinner, too.
<ajmitch> I could probably manage that
<zul> for the winecfg shouldnt the default be alsa? #42169
<crimsun> zul: reportedly the alsa output isn't as robust
<zul> really? thats not really surprising :0
<crimsun> ...and I just got blame in #ubuntu for someone losing his NTFS partition to Beta 2's live installer.
<ajmitch> crimsun: impressive
<zul> lol
<crimsun> why the heck do I even bother?
<ajmitch> since it's obviously your fault
<bddebian> Yeah, bastage! :-)
<ajmitch> crimsun: I know, it's hard trying to help people at times
<zul> crimsun: you are just too malicious
<ajmitch> I generally just watch those channels, when I can
<nictuku> :-( why did you do that? poor user
<zakame> crimsun: aww *patpat*
<ajmitch> nictuku: seriously, this user was abusing crimsun in #ubuntu
<StevenK> But isn't that what crimsun is for?
* StevenK runs away.
<nictuku> sorry, I was joking.
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> but I just read what happened, and it doesn't make me happy
<nictuku> I'm not very talented on dealing with angry users. I had some troubles in #ubuntu-br too
<nictuku> specially those that starts cursing #ubuntu because no one there could help him.
<ajmitch> that frequently happens, I think
* StevenK wonders if he should close a bug that is fixed in Dapper.
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> we usually do that
<ajmitch> well..
<ajmitch> depends on the bug, I guess ;)
<nictuku> sorry to ask again, but you guys really just leave unreproductible bugs open, even after many users confirming it works for them?
<bddebian> nictuku: I suppose it depends unfortunately
<ajmitch> nictuku: considering there are > 10000 bugs, expecting us to close bugs as soon as someone comments saying 'works for me' is a little unrealistic
<ajmitch> sometimes the bug will still exist, but the people testing haven't come across the case where it breaks
<nictuku> and sorry if it's obvious, but what is the difference between unconfirmed and need info?
<StevenK> Ohh, it's even unreproducible with Breezy.
<ajmitch> need info means we're waiting for more information from the bug reporter, eg backtrace, version numbers
<ajmitch> StevenK: wonderful!
<StevenK> ajmitch: Figured it out.
<nictuku> ok, that makes the first lesson: don't be frusted with the fact of having a dozen thousand open bugs. right?
* StevenK finds two bugs that should be easy to solve.
<bddebian> StevenK: So get on it.. :-)
<ajmitch> back later
<StevenK> bddebian: I'm working on 'em
<nictuku> is it of any help for a non-uploader to fix UNMETDEPS ? or doesn't that help much?
<bddebian> nictuku: Absolutely.  Just attach a diff to the bug
* StevenK buggers to find some lunch.
<zul> everybody got quiet all of the sudden
<ajmitch> yes, I left :)
<zul> yeah
<zul> that must be it
<LaserJock> I'm here zul
<zul> wohoo!
<zul> ;)
* bddebian too (sort of)
<bddebian> What is up with libswt-gtk-3.1?
<ajmitch> it's java
<ajmitch> it's evil
<bddebian> Yeah, well it's broken
<ajmitch> so fix it
<chillywilly> ya mon
<bddebian> Well why is there libswt3.1-gtk-java but no libswt3.1-gtk?
<bddebian> But there is libswt-gtk-3.1 and libswt-gtk-3.1-java
<ajmitch> because of package naming?
<nictuku> 41572 seems to justify a sync from debian. It's only a locales package. what do you think?
<ajmitch> 'only locales' he says :)
<bddebian> nictuku: Did you try the Debian package? :-)
<LaserJock> ack, do you guys know if it is possible to unsubscribe from a bug?
<ajmitch> nictuku: sadly it'd probably break with mozilla-thunderbird-enigmail
<ajmitch> which is the package that most people would care about
<LaserJock> what's a little breakage here or there? hehe ;-)
<nictuku> ajmitch, the diff shows a lot of changes, but I can't follow them (.jar, .rdf and debian/* files)
<ajmitch> nictuku: I saw that just by looking at the depends line
<LaserJock> bddebian: mind if I close the python-scipy-core unmet dep bug now?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Is it fixed? :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: I assume so, I'm not sure how to exactly test that? was scipy-core not installing at all?
<bddebian> Oh, hmm, did I ever upload it?
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah, I'm just not sure why it was broken
<LaserJock> I've installed it recently I think
<LaserJock> hi tritium
<tritium> hi LaserJock
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<nictuku> well I'll that anyway
<tritium> hey there bddebian
<nictuku> let me see where it breaks
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, it looks like I removed the python2.3 pacckage
<LaserJock> bddebian: it installed fine on my dapper box, but I never knew it had a problem. Must have occured between installs ;-)
<bddebian> he
<bddebian> +h
<bddebian> Oh, zul broke swingwt :-)
<zul> hmm?
<nictuku> I'm updating enigmail-locales sid package to 0.94, getting the .xpi's for that version and merging it to the package in sid (which has the locales files for 0.93). let's see if it works
<nictuku> there are even some new languages added in that version. We could make packages for those too, what do you think?
<nictuku> we are in a freeze, so I guess that will have to wait..
<LaserJock> hmm, for a UVF exception is the diffstat of the .orig.tar.gz better than a diff of the whole source package?
<nictuku> "dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source"
<nictuku> ah :-) debian/rules binary clean
<LaserJock> anybody got a AMD64 pbuilder available?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> LaserJock: what do you need?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: can I get you to build praat from Debian unstable?
<ajmitch> sure, just a min
<ajmitch> building
<ajmitch> so many compile warnings..
<LaserJock> hmm
<ajmitch> ok, built
<LaserJock> ajmitch: could I get you to install it and just see if doesn't segfault when you run it?
<LaserJock> or, I guess it is supposed to hang on startup
<ajmitch> it'd have to be done later, I'm still at work :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ok, np. If you can just tell me whenever you get to it.
<ajmitch> ok
<LaserJock> I'm trying to get a UVF exception but the main bug fix is for AMD64
<StevenK> LaserJock: I can have a try.
<LaserJock> StevenK: k, that would be cool
<StevenK> Oh, crap, I can't run it here either.
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon and keyes
<imbrandon> heya lazerjock
<imbrandon> hey anyone in here wanna confim something for me, monodevelop should require libgdiplus package ( it will run without but crashes randomly and has screen redraw problems ) anyone have monodevelop installed?
<imbrandon> never mind found it in launchpad
<nictuku> hmm
<nictuku> it's so fun to work with deb packages of moz applications
<G0SUB> hello!
<G0SUB> how do I generate a locale?
<G0SUB> dpkg-reconfigure locales doesn't give me options to select locales to generate anymore
<TheMuso> c
<Mithrandir> hi TheMuso, I was just looking for you.
<Mithrandir> TheMuso: the reason why your changes haven't been uploaded is it's been a weekend and yesterday was a national holiday in .no, so I have tried to do at least some other stuff than sitting in front of my computer.
<TheMuso> Mithrandir: Thats fine.
<lifeless> Mithrandir: omg, a life ?! did your partner die of shock ?
<lifeless> :)
<Mithrandir> lifeless: no, she was mostly busy either sewing or sitting in front of her computer. :-P
<lifeless> ahha!
<Mithrandir> (though, we did help out at my stepmother's cabin on Saturday, opening up for the season)
<nictuku> G0SUB, tried locale-gen ?
<nictuku> hehe packaging mozilla extensions seems to be an art of its own
<G0SUB> nictuku: earlier reconfiguring locales would give me an option to select which locales to install
<crimsun> G0SUB: if you're not using System> Administration> Language Support, then you need to pass the list of locales from /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED that you want to locale-gen, as nictuku mentioned.
<G0SUB> crimsun: there is a bug.
<G0SUB> crimsun: selecting bengali from that menu installs the langpacks but doesn't generate the locale
<G0SUB> crimsun: so there is no language option in gdm
<nictuku> G0SUB, the lack of a debconf interface for picking locales seems to 'work as intended'
<nictuku> ah
<G0SUB> nictuku: the debconf interface was pretty cool
<nictuku> me agrees!
<nictuku> there isn't even an explantion in the changelog or README :-(
<nictuku> going to bed
<nictuku> good night all
<ajmitch> night
<crimsun> 'night
* Mongoose is away: /_\ zzZzZZZZzz
<dholbach> hello motu world
<dholbach> GUYS!
<dholbach> You've been doing incredible job on the UNMETDEPS
<dholbach> I'll have to think of something new for you! :)
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
* ajmitch is still waiting for some stuff to be processed in NEW & doko's syncs :)
<ajmitch> and we've got a few new people involved with the dh_iconcache changes :)
<dholbach> nice
<dholbach> that sounds soooo good
* dholbach hugs ajmitch and the MOTU crew
<dholbach> you guys rock
* ajmitch hugs dholbach 
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach
<ajmitch> you've been doing a great job getting people to work though
<ajmitch> Hobbsee is another one we're very happy to have working now :)
* Hobbsee is saddened.  she clearly wasnt doing a great job :P
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<ajmitch> you are!
* ajmitch hugs Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee just thinks it's odd to be reffered to as a guy :P
* Hobbsee cuddles back :) - heya
<ajmitch> :P
<Hobbsee> even though it happens so many times, i still havent really gotten used to being called a guy, when i'm not :P
<ajmitch> we don't mean to exclude you in any way, shape or form :)
<Mithrandir> good morning, dudes and dudettes.
<Hobbsee> hehe i know :)
<Hobbsee> i know that - it just still *feels* odd - parituclarly if i i happen to be wearing a skirt, and so am really obvious :P
<Mithrandir> skirts rock.
<sladen> morning girls and boys
<ajmitch> hello sladen
<sladen> ajmitch: don't think it's "morning" in Nez Zealand though :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> hey sladen
<Hobbsee> no, it's not, it's 7pm there...
<Mithrandir> it's always morning on IRC
<Hobbsee> :P
<Mithrandir> it's called IGT and is a special time zone, just for IRC.
<ajmitch> of course, how else could we live our lives?
<Hobbsee> hehe
<sladen> Hobbsee: I was pointing somebody at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WPAHowto but that seems to possibily be out-of-date compared to the current status of network-manager and latest dapper
<Hobbsee> sladen: yeah, that is out of date.  it does work, if you dont want to use network-manager though
<sladen> Hobbsee: oooh, okay.  It's not me trying to get it to work, but somebody else;  are there better instructions anywhere?  At the moment it's like the blind leading the blind
<sladen> since my only interaction with WPA was at Debconf last year where I pissed around for a day and then just went back to using nice reliable cables
<Hobbsee> no...i rewrote it, but it got changed back - and i dont have a copy of what i changed...
<Hobbsee> i'd try using it thru n-m
<siretart> dholbach: when approving uvf-requests, I started to assign the bug from motu-uvf to the person who will handle the upload/sync/etc. Do you see any problems with that?
<zakame> bug 42205
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42205 in pcmciautils "wireless card stops working after installing pcmciautils on 2.6.12" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42205
<zakame> erm, bug 42055
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42055 in gnome-ppp "Latest update breaks functionality" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42055
<dholbach> siretart: no, not at all.
<dholbach> siretart: that's fine
<siretart> ok. will continue to do so
<siretart> dholbach: are all hug days on wednesday, btw?
<lucas> hi all
<dholbach> no, we switched the times a bit, but plan to stay midweek
<siretart> hey lucas
<siretart> ok
<dholbach> as it seems to suit a lot of people better
<zakame> can my good peers comment on bug 42055 :D gnome-ppp needs love =)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42055 in gnome-ppp "Latest update breaks functionality" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42055
<siretart> lucas: please let understand the issue: how many reverse depends does ruby1.9 have? what risk do you think comes with a ruby1.9 update?
<lucas> I haven't checked rev depends. but 4 packages fail to build because ruby1.9 doesn't build on amd64
<lucas> not much risk ; it's a dev snapshot anyway
<siretart> lucas: well, upgrading a dev snapshot sounds risky for all reverse depends
<lucas> then, somebody has to find the bug and fix it, because it's a much bigger problem to release without ruby1.9
<lucas> (and I won't, I'm over-busy for at least a month)
<siretart> hm. any idea why ruby1.9 ftbfs on amd64 only?!
<lucas> crappy network here ...
<zakame> hi \sh!
<\sh> moins
<Toadstool> hi here
<Toadstool> siretart: looks like it is a ruby segfault when it runs the test suite...
<kelmo_lap> moin
<\sh> clamav has a security hole .... announcement: http://www.clamav.net/security/0.88.2.html
<siretart> Toadstool: and it is reproducable
<Toadstool> yep
<siretart> Toadstool: I'd really love to see a list of reverse depends affected by a possible ruby1.9 update, and a few test rebuilds. can you care for this?
<siretart> hey kelmo_lap
<Toadstool> siretart: i'm on it :)
<\sh> siretart: uvf exception for security fixes possible?
<\sh> siretart: moins btw :)
<siretart> hey \sh ! :)
<siretart> mom
<Ibalon> heya siretart \sh
<\sh> siretart: see heise and the attached security advisory :) I'm checking what the other changes are, or if it's better to backport the fix
<\sh> well it's worth it...
<Hobbsee> hi \sh
<siretart> \sh: Is it really a new upstream version or just a patch to the current version?
<siretart> \sh: if the latter, then just go on with uploading, no uvf exception necessary
<\sh> siretart: the security fix I can fix via patch...
<\sh> let's see if I can backport all changes
<siretart> \sh: I'd suggest diffing the 2 versions, and look at the diff. for an uvf exception, you need to create that diff and diffstat anyway
<\sh> siretart: yeah, if i can avoid it it's not much....
<siretart> often security fixes are just a couple of patch hunks...
<Toadstool> siretart: I just tested rebuilding a few ruby1.9 rdepends on i386 and amd64 and it works just fine
<\sh> siretart: backported the important parts to 0.88.1 ... security fix included...
<siretart> Toadstool: how many reverse deps are there? could you please add this information to the bugreport, so it doesn't get lost? (I mean that you tried building it and what reverse deps you tried to rebuild
<siretart> \sh: great! please attach the patch to the report and subscribe me. I'll happily sponsor you
<Toadstool> siretart: yep adding my test results to the bug report
<\sh> siretart: I'll file a bug report on launchpad, including debdiff what was your launchpad id again?
<siretart> \sh: the same as my nick: 'siretart'
<\sh> siretart: ok...uvf report :)
<\sh> they changed more then the backport is worth...debdiff and diffstat attached to bugreport...
<\sh> siretart: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/clamav/+bug/42568
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42568 in clamav "Security issue fixed in 0.88.2" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<\sh> one more cigarette then I have to buy a sleeping bag for tomorrow
<\sh> siretart: are you visiting the LT?
<siretart> \sh: yes, it looks like I'm coming on thursday evening, and will stay until saturday evening
<\sh> siretart: cool...visit the kubuntu booth then :) I'll be waiting for you and a cup of coffee as well :)
<siretart> \sh: I definitly will be there! :)
<\sh> great .. ok have to hurry a bit...last preparations for LT :)
<\sh> later guys
<Toadstool> siretart: I've just updated the ruby1.9 bug report
<Toadstool> if you have any comments... :)
<lucas> Toadstool: excellent work :)
<Toadstool> thanks lucas
<lucas> Toadstool: libdb3-ruby ftbfs too because of this
<lucas> but if libdb4.3 was fixed, this one will probably work too
<Toadstool> yep, and libdb4.2 too
<Toadstool> I can test right now
<StevenK> Right. There is an update-pot sort of thing. The ldaptor.pot that falls out is empty.
<phanatic> hi people
<zakame> heya phanatic! =)
<phanatic> hey zakame :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<crimsun> 'lo barry
<bddebian> Hi Daniel
<zakame> heya bddebian crimsun
<bddebian> Hi zakame
<phanatic> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello phanatic
<LaserJock> good morning MOTU Land!
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<phanatic> hi LaserJock
<\sh> re
<bddebian> \sh: I'm thinking I should pull an \sh and turn in my key :-)
* LaserJock thinks the he should talk to the LP admins about locking bddebian key so he can't do that ;-)
<\sh> lol
<\sh> bddebian: i'm old, i'm fould, I'm forking ;)
<\sh> bddebian: seriously, my time is counted in the moment...looks like that I will push again after dapper
<bddebian> \sh: Well I'm old, fat, and apparently annoying :-)
<\sh> bddebian: no you are not..at least "apparently annoying" is not correct...the rest I can't proove
<bddebian> ?
<\sh> bddebian: no you are not..at least "apparently annoying" is not correct...the rest (fat and old) I can't prove, checking
<bddebian> Heh
<\sh> what I wanted to say is, WE NEED YOU AND YOUR INPUT, friend :)
<bddebian> \sh: Nah
<LaserJock> bddebian: it's true
* \sh kicks bddebians ass, when he is coming to germany the next time :)
<\sh> bddebian: really, you are great, you are not annoying..better to ask many times before making a mistake..that's great...I wish, i would do it the same way
<bddebian> Bah.  You just do it right the first time :-)
<\sh> bddebian: no ways...I never do anything right the first time...
<\sh> oh well..I just came back from cologne...it's 25 degrees...and all the girls which are != german are so pretty...
<\sh> indians, turkish, africans...wow...I have to leave this country...
<Gloubiboulga> Is there someone in particular I need to hug to be added in the LP MOTU team? :)
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: probably dholbach
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: lemme try
<dholbach> you're added
* Gloubiboulga hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> ogra can make you a admin
<Gloubiboulga> thanks Daniel
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<LaserJock> \sh: xchat-gnome is no longer installed by default, it would have to be gaim launchpad-integration
<\sh> dholbach: so you went with some kde'ler to have some drinks? we could need a good kde guy like you ;)
<\sh> LaserJock: whatever is serving the problem "connecting to irc"
<\sh> but thinking of gaim as irc client is like thinking about emacs to be a slime line mail client
<LaserJock> heh, well I'm a bit concerned about the whole thing because xchat was droped because it was said that IRC usage is not enough to warrant an IRC-only client
<LaserJock> and then this IRC Support thing sounds like an Official support system.
<dholbach> \sh: a kde guy like me? ... hum ....
<\sh> dholbach: if you can drink with scott, you are a kde guy, hehe :)
<\sh> LaserJock: who said this?
<dholbach> If drinking is the only thing kde people need to know, I suppose you better pick somebody else
<LaserJock> \sh: about what?
<\sh> LaserJock: [18:38]  <LaserJock> heh, well I'm a bit concerned about the whole thing because xchat was droped because it was said that IRC usage is not enough to warrant an IRC-only client
<\sh> who is "it"?
<LaserJock> \sh: oh, the big guys. mdz or Kamion I think
<\sh> LaserJock: oh wow...what drugs are they using? it's something like "well, let's remove postfix from default, because there is no usecase for having a smtp only software...let's use hula"
<LaserJock> \sh: basically it came down to anybody who wanted to use IRC would be advanced enough to know how to install xchat
<LaserJock> \sh: and instant messaging is used way more than IRC by users
<LaserJock> anyway, it was sort of messy because then the doc team had to pull the links to #ubuntu from the docs because gaim doesn't handle irc:// if I remember correctly
<\sh> well, to be frank, email is more used then IM or IRC..so why not remove IM and IRC? these thoughts are somehow totally crap...IRC is older then IM, and IRC has a more common user base..even totally dump people can use irc if they have it started..where as IM they have to know which buddies they have to add...
<\sh> in the first place
<LaserJock> \sh: anyway, the decision was made, although irssi is still installed by default. So know the irc clients are gaim and irssi :-)
<\sh> lets replace irssi with centericq with irc support...
<\sh> I wonder who will cry then ;)
<\sh> simplifying gnome is one thing, but reducing functionality is the other..and proposing broken software like gaim is totally crap
<Toadstool> siretart: here?
<LaserJock> \sh: I know "Ubuntu, sponsored by the bug fixing talents of bddebian" ;-)
<bddebian> Give me a break
<\sh> rotfl..yeah that's a good one
<dholbach> \sh: can you stop bickering?
<ohoel> do any of you have a nice changelog formatter plugin of sorts for gedit handy?
<\sh> dholbach: i'm doing what?
<dholbach> It's different to propose something a solution or elaborate on a problem than to rant for ten minutes.
<dholbach> "what drugs are they using?" ...
<LaserJock> ohoel: hmm, that would be interesting to have. I don't know of any.
<\sh> dholbach: aehm....that's nothing to worry about....I'm not bickering...
<LaserJock> dholbach: my only concern was that the decision process didn't seem to be apparent at all. Did the desktop team make that decision?
<dholbach> It's inappropriate, that's all I'm saying.
<ohoel> LaserJock: I was advised to grab gedit off cvs as it has support for pyton in the text snippets plugin, but thought I'd ask here before I go churning ;)
<dholbach> LaserJock: Voicing concerns is fine with me - but it depends how that's done.
<dholbach> No, the Desktop Team didn't make that decision.
<LaserJock> who did? do you know?
<dholbach> Take the discussion to the mailing list - but I suppose it was discussed already.
<\sh> dholbach: well, it's gnome anyways..but the decision was wrong, imho, and I never saw any discussion on u-d about it...
<dholbach> \sh: I appreciate that you have concerns and want to discuss them. It's just the questions *how* you do that.
<\sh> dholbach: I think "what drugs are they using" and kamions "when I'm not totally on crack" (from this morning) is quite normal in our area...I didn't insult anybody.
<dholbach> Until now I didn't even say if I agree or disagree, but bickering for the sake of it, is completely out of place and I don't want to have that in here. It creates a bad atmosphere and has *no* effect on fixing the issue at all.
<\sh> dholbach: so it's wrong to say "someone is totally wrong" just because of someones name and position? or don't I get the point?
<dholbach> No, you're complaining and make snide remarks.
<dholbach> \sh lets replace irssi with centericq with irc support...
<dholbach> etc
<\sh> dholbach: yes? that's what's "replacing xchat with gaim" is
<dholbach> I personally think that gaim is not a nice irc client either
<\sh> so where is that bickering?
<dholbach> but that's not the point
<dholbach> " well, to be frank, email is more used then IM or IRC..so why not remove IM and IRC? these thoughts are somehow totally crap..."
<dholbach> that's bickering
<dholbach> you know that it doesn't change anything, but you're just complaining
<\sh> it's my opinion..it's not bickering, but if you see it this way, please do
<Gloubiboulga> bddebian, I think you've uploaded a new xmedcon package (with dh_iconcache), right?
<bddebian> Gloubiboulga: Hmm, sounds familiar.  Did I break it?
<Gloubiboulga> bddebian, not at all, but it's not added on the wiki page :)
<bddebian> Doh :-(
<Gloubiboulga> bddebian, I'm editing it, I can file the cell for you
<zyga> hey motus
<bddebian> Heya zyga
<LaserJock> ok, so anybody interested in science is welcome to come over to #ubuntu-science!
<bddebian> Science is for geeks ;-P
<LaserJock> actually it's for nerds but whatever
<tseng> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya tseng
<Se7h> hi all
<bddebian> Hello Se7h
<Se7h> LaserJock, isn't gstreamer-rtp available ?
<Se7h> hi bddebian
<Tonio_> hi
<bddebian> Heya Tonio_
<LaserJock> Se7h: hmm?
<Se7h> gstreamer0.8-rtp
<LaserJock> Se7h: what about it?
<tseng> nothing is using gstreamer 0.8
<Se7h> where is it?
<Se7h> lol
<tseng> on my system
<Se7h> :> cute
<Se7h> another issue
<Se7h> gstreamer-plugins-good wont upgrade for a dep of libcdio3, witch isnt available (only libcdio6)
<chantra> hi, is there any admin around?
<warpforge> do you have a question?
<LaserJock> chantra: admin of what?
<chantra> yep, I've uploaded a package t revu (updated one), but it doesn't seem to have made its way up?
<chantra> revu
<chantra> LaserJock: revu
<tseng> siretart and siretart
<tseng> uh
<tseng> and sistpoty
<chantra> cool cheers ;)
<pygi> tseng: heh 
<LaserJock> chantra: did you upload a source package? *_source.changes?
<chantra> siretart: I've uploaded gaim-2.0.0beta3
<chantra> LaserJock: yep
<LaserJock> chantra: how long ago?
<chantra> Good signature on /home/tman/packages/gaim/gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu0_source.changes.
<chantra> Checking Signature on .dsc
<chantra> LaserJock: about 1h1/2 ago
<chantra> should i just reupload it?
<chantra> ended with Successfully uploaded packages.
<chantra> :)
<xixaq> hello people. I'm wondering. I've installed all of the repositories that come with ubuntu. I notice that some programs are listed twice. Isn't that a waste of space? :)
<LaserJock> chantra: gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu0 ?
<LaserJock> xixaq: like what?
<chantra> LaserJock: yep, that's it
<LaserJock> chantra: it's there
<chantra> even I cleared my firefox cache, I still see gaim_2.0.0beta3-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<chantra> on revu.tauware
<warpforge> xixaq: There's a reason I didn't refer you to #ubuntu-motu. Your question doesn't need answering by admins.
<xixaq> LaserJock: like python2.4-schoolbell and schoolbell.
<LaserJock> chantra: what url are you going to?
<LaserJock> xixaq: those are duplicates
<LaserJock> s/are/aren't/
<xixaq> oh.. Sorry :)
<chantra> LaserJock: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2288
<LaserJock> xixaq: no problem
<Riddell> dholbach: are you doing the upstream version freeze exceptions for universe?
<LaserJock> chantra: each upload gets a new upid. go back to the main revu web page and reload it
<LaserJock> chantra: for instance, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2318 ;-)
<chantra> arf LaserJock , sorry for that. As the previous one was still reloadiing fine I thought it was all good
<chantra> :p
<LaserJock> chantra: yeah, revu has each upload seperated
<LaserJock> xixaq: sometimes the packages seem redundant but they actually have a purpose
<LaserJock> xixaq: python packages are especially that way because they are byte compiled for each python version so there is a package for each python version (2.3 and 2.4)
<lucas> I hate it when firefox crashes and I have > 10 tabs opened
<lucas> LaserJock: you might be able to help me. what do you use for bibliography management ?
<xixaq> LaserJock: I see. I just noticed that everything was identical, except the name. Version and description. Thought I'd make myself useful and report it. :) Perhaps I should wait until I learn more about how stuff works in this environment.
<LaserJock> lucas: ack, nothing right now. I'll be starting writing my dissertation soon and I'll have to use some sort of bib manager for latex
<lucas> have you considered using citeulike.org ?
<LaserJock> xixaq: oh, np. thanks for look out for stuff. that is what makes Ubuntu rock. you are  welcome to hang out here and learn more about how it all works
<xixaq> thank you. :)
<LaserJock> lucas: looks pretty cool
<LaserJock> dholbach or slomo: so can I upload a new praat now or do I need to wait for something else?
<\sh> ok gentlemen, I'll see some of you during the linuxtag :)
<LaserJock> crimsun: hello
<crimsun> hi LaserJock
<ajmitch> hi
<crimsun> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> CC meeting is on
<LaserJock> dholbach: did you happen to see my earlier question about the praat UVFe ?
<crimsun> sigh, here we go again in #ubuntu
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, sorry I didn't get back to you about testing that
<dholbach> LaserJock: it'll be set to confirmed when it's ready - i'll have another look later - i
<dholbach> m on the phone
<LaserJock> dholbach: ok, fine. no problem
<LaserJock> crimsun: what's going on?
<crimsun> same shit as yesterday, excuse my language please
<crimsun> I'm getting to the point where if Kyozabe1 says anything to me, I'm going to stand up and walk away.
<lucas> crimsun: too much IRCing lately ? :)
<crimsun> yeah, I think I reached that point about ten years ago
<crimsun> anyhow, I'm ignoring him for everyone's sanity, since I'm sure you guys don't need to hear about it.
<LaserJock> crimsun: I honestly don't know how you can spend so much time on #ubuntu
* ajmitch can't
<zul> heylo
<ajmitch> hi zul
<zul> hey ajmitch
<bpuccio> hmmm, anyone know why I've been banned from #ubuntu? I haven't said anything all day, I just lurk there, found out I got banned when I just got home now
<ajmitch> bpuccio: most likely tor again
<bpuccio> ajmitch: damn and I thought I had filtered out all of the exit ports, time to look into locking it down further... I wonder if my ISP is willing to get me a second IP and how much that will cost
<bpuccio> thanks, ajmitch
<ajmitch> that was just a guess, but it's fairly common that tor sessions get blocked
<ajmitch> not because of your specific one
<ajmitch> 17:45 -!- 69 - #ubuntu: ban *!*@tor/session/* [by ChanServ!ChanServ@services., 2588961 secs ago] 
<bpuccio> hmm, yeah, I'm not connecting to anything via tor at the moment, but I do run a (pretty locked down) exit node at the rate of 3GB per day of bandwidth, so I'm assuming it nabbed my IP because of that, thanks again
<ajmitch> well you're connected to freenode via tor
<ajmitch> at least according to whois
<bpuccio> nope, don't have tor or privoxy installed on this machine
<bpuccio> however a machine on this network (all share the same public IP) is a tor exit node
<bpuccio> so it assumes (rightfully so I guess) that since this IP is part of the tor network that I'm connecting via tor
<bpuccio> it can't tell the difference
<ajmitch> probably
<bpuccio> meh, I'm not worried, thanks for your time
#ubuntu-motu 2007-04-30
<ajmitch> kalon33: I'll tell you when it's done
<ajmitch> it seems to be going rather slowly
<kalon33> ok, thank you :)
<ajmitch> Kmos: for updates to existing packages, it's often easier to put it as a debdiff in a bug against the existing package
<marseillai_> hi
<marseillai_> i have to move lib from /usr/lib to /usr/lib/myapps . how can i do this with CDBS ?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: around?
<Nafallo> LaserJock: JID says Sleeping.
<LaserJock> now why would he be doing that? ;-)
<LaserJock> I thought he might enjoy the last comment on Bug #85474
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 85474 in maxima "Maxima frontends cannot connect" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85474
<ajmitch> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> person reports a similar bug in fedora
<LaserJock> hola ajmitch
<crimsun> geser: ok, do you want to generate a new dsc and tarball, then?
* ajmitch wonders why revu-key update is taking so long today
<jussi01> ok, ive made the man page, ive got dh_installman in my rules file, but i still have no man page. what am i doing wrong?
<geser> crimsun: will do
<boss-bcp> Could someone take a look at libpam-cups ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4936 ) for me? It's currently been advocated by one MOTU.
<ajmitch> fixed up the build-depends?
<ajmitch> there's also some very ugly stuff going on in postinst
<ajmitch> alternatives *only* work when packages cooperate
<ajmitch> a subsequent update of cups would probably blow away the symlinks you add
<jekil> i run a suid program, so it has a uid xxx, but i cant display it on X session of user yyy, how i can do?
<jekil> the program is a gnome applet that must run suid
<geser> crimsun: https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/devscripts/+bug/108232/comments/10 contains the tar.gz
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108232 in devscripts "[Merge]  devscripts 2.10.4ubuntu1" [Undecided,Fix committed]  
<crimsun> thanks, looking as soon as these kids give me a moment
<geser> the only changes are: chmod +x test/debchange.pl scripts/requestsync.py and the new changelog entry
<ajmitch> Kmos: rather large whitespace-only changes in the diff, orig.tar.gz is modified from upstream
<kalon33> /join #ubuntu-fr
<kalon33> sorry :p
<ajmitch> kalon33: you can upload now
<kalon33> bad command :p
<kalon33> thanks ajmitch :)
<crimsun> geser: uploaded, thanks
<Kmos> ajmitch: maybe it's because of the whitespace in the end of ddclient executable file
<ajmitch> Kmos: there are literally thousands of lines with whitespace changes
<Kmos> ajmitch: that whitespace in the end of file make diff to do that
<Kmos> it's the only explanation, because the .orig.tar.gz isn't changed by me
<kalon33> ajmitch : When I recover my password in the revu main page, I got "None" is it usual or not ?
<ajmitch> kalon33: you can get your password after a successful upload
<ajmitch> Kmos: nothing will touch the orig.tar.gz
<ajmitch> so something you did must have changed it
<kalon33> okay, thanks, I'm a newbie for that ^^
<ajmitch> size is slightly different, md5sum is different
<Kmos> ajmitch: i've uploaded another one
<Kmos> you see that on file ddclient_3.7.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz ?
<Kmos> -				  'skip' => 'local:',                
<Kmos> +				  'skip' => 'local:',
<Kmos> stuff like that ?
<jekil> someone have an example of a setuid wrapper?
<kalon33> here is my package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4955 if someone could give his advice on it... :)
<ajmitch> Kmos: yes, it's messy
<Kmos> ajmitch: i think i've fixed it :)
<Kmos> ajmitch: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4956
<ajmitch> diff is still 158KB
<ajmitch> looks a lot saner though
<ajmitch> you're still using a different orig.tar.gz to what is on sourceforge
<Kmos> i've used svn export https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/ddclient/trunk/svn ddclient
<ajmitch> Kmos: um
<ajmitch> why?
<ajmitch> you're taking trunk & saying it's 3.7.1
<ajmitch> btw, please remove the log file :)
<Kmos> i'll download it
<ajmitch> it contains things you'd rather not share with the world
<Kmos> oki
<ajmitch> (assuming it's yours)
<Kmos> i'll do it, thx
<geser> ajmitch: the debian package for ddclient contains also a log file
<superm1> ajmitch, when you finish looking over ddclient, would you a few moments for another revu?
<Kmos> ajmitch: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4957
<ajmitch> geser: I hope it's just an example then
<ajmitch> superm1: no, and I shouldn't be spending any time on ddclient either
<superm1> ajmitch, ah okay :)
<ajmitch> this is as far as I can go right now with ddclient
<Kmos> ups, now patches failed.. :(
<Kmos> let's work
<superm1> Well if there are any other takers up for a revu in here: http://revu.tauware.de./details.py?upid=4910
<jmg> #55782
<jmg> hmmm
<kalon33> good night all ;)
<pygi> somebody remind me the command to generate the time and date stuff for changelog pls?? :)
<Nafallo> ehrm... dch? :-)
<pygi> Nafallo, danke :)
<ajmitch> pygi: emacs
<pygi> ajmitch, I don't use that :P
<ajmitch> your loss
<superm1> thx for the backport jdong_ 
<pygi> ajmitch, let's not go into that again :P
<ajmitch> pygi: don't you want an editor war? :(
<pygi> ajmitch, nah
<ajmitch> oh well
<pygi> ajmitch, mind doing an upload for me?
<pygi> or anyone else who I can bug for that matter? :)
<ajmitch> can't, heading out the door in a few minutes
<pygi> oki, np
<bddebian> Crap, I think some of the asterisk modules are going to need an SRU :-(
<pygi> bddebian, heh
<bddebian> Hello pygi
<bddebian> Gah, biab
<eolo999> pygi, 822-date
<pygi> eolo999, danke, but got it already =)
<eolo999> pygi, ok
<ryanakca> Why isn't my package showing up on REVU? I dput'd it 20 or so minutes ago
<pygi> ryanakca, patience :)
<ryanakca> lol
<ryanakca> pygi: I'm used to it showing up in 10 minutes :)
<pygi> ^_^
<eolo999> i'm looking for a guide on writing new dpatch rules for a package. I've seen it but don't remember where (motu-school?). Someone can give me an address?
<ryanakca> And, can a REVU admin resync the keys or something? I added a uid to my gpg key (ryanakca@kubuntu.org), but, I can't retrieve my password for it on REVU... just for my old addy.
<pygi> ryanakca, poke sispotty
<ryanakca> eolo999: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources?highlight=%28patch%29 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekfeisty/patching?highlight=%28patch%29
<eolo999> thx ryanakca 
<ryanakca> eolo999: the rest are https://wiki.ubuntu.com/?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=patch&titlesearch=Titles
<ryanakca> pygi: kk, thanks
<crimsun> `revu-key update` running.
<crimsun> hmm, keyserver's timing out.
<ryanakca> crimsun: thanks
<ryanakca> pygi: hmm..
<bddebian> Are we supposed to reject breezy bugs flat out now?
<jdong> bddebian: sounds good :)
<crimsun> bddebian: yes.  It was EOL'd circa 7.04 release.
<crimsun> bddebian: free for a query?
<bddebian> crimsun: Any time for you man
<crimsun> thanks.
<eolo999> ryanakca, i still can find an article i've seen about writing debian/rules from scratch... it is a package that had not a patch system...
<ryanakca> eolo999: hmm... read http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html and http://www.us.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
<bddebian> >4,000 unconfirmed bugs is just insane :-(
<jmg> bddebian: where?
<jmg> feisty?
<bddebian> jmg: ubuntu
<jmg> need some triagers
<crimsun> keyring sync completed.
<jmg>  ugh.
<bddebian> Anyone know why we need orbit and orbit2 in the repos?
<crimsun> well, a lot of packages build-dep on liborbit2-dev
<crimsun> only a couple against liborbit-dev, though.
<azeem> but Barry doesn't care about Gnome
<ryanakca> crimsun: thanks
<bddebian> hah
<ryanakca> hmm... I dput my package to revu over an hour ago... nothing (jailkit)
<ryanakca> (nothing = I can't see it on http://revu.tauware.de)
<ajmitch> ryanakca: it's not in the rejected queue
<ajmitch> ryanakca: which generally indicates that you uploaded to the wrong place
<ryanakca> ajmitch: http://pastebin.ca/465259    ... same thing as last time
<bddebian> I'm just wondering if Bug #31662 is worth giving a shit about
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 31662 in orbit "orbit does use it's own copy of libIDL, not the packaged one" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/31662
<ajmitch> ryanakca: ok, it's there this time
<ryanakca> ajmitch: kk
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4961
<ryanakca> It's a chroot utility
<ryanakca> builds fine in pbuilder-gutsy, and lintian + linda return no errors (Just a couple I: about a minus sign being used instead of a hypen in the man pages)
<ryanakca> s/hypen/hyphen
<ScottK> ajmitch: Do you have time to look at a debdiff for an SRU candidate?
<crimsun> url?
<ScottK> The last comment in Bug #108612.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108612 in pythoncad "[apport]  pythoncad crashed with ExpatError in parse()" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108612
<ScottK> Thanks.
* ajmitch should stay away from irc
<ScottK> ajmitch just isn't mean enough to keep fans like me away.
<crimsun> ajmitch: are you handling the above debdiff?
<crimsun> (avoiding stepping on toes)
<crimsun> ScottK: 0.1.33-2ubuntu0.1~proposed1, please
<ScottK> crimsun: Ah, yes.  Sorry about that.
<ScottK> crimsun: Anything else?  If not I'll attach the change to the bug?
<crimsun> ScottK: it looks fine to me aside from that triviality
<ScottK> crimsun: Edited and attached.
<ajmitch> crimsun: no, I should be working
<crimsun> ajmitch: ok
<crimsun> ScottK: uploaded.
<ScottK> crimsun: Thanks.
<crimsun> np
<bddebian> Heya persia
<persia> hey bddebian
<TheMuso> Are there still known issues with linux-libc-dev?
<crimsun> apparently.
<crimsun> 2.6.22-1.5 FTBFS on !ia64
<zakame> aww
<crimsun> as steven pointed out about 14 hours ago
<TheMuso> Ok, explains why a package here seems to bomb on an ioctl constant, even though its properly declared  by a chain of header files.
<TheMuso> this is on i386.
<TheMuso> Or is that something totally unrelated?
<crimsun> it's likely related
<crimsun> hmm, that's actually an awesome, if not brutal, idea
<TheMuso> crimsun: ??
<crimsun> ship a broken linux-libc-dev in the final release so those wacko compile-everything-yourselves can't
<TheMuso> hahaha
<TheMuso> crimsun: Ok do you want to deal with the bug reports?
<TheMuso> for that
<crimsun> -> "Fix released"
<crimsun> :)
<TheMuso> heh
<crimsun> seriously, though, it'll probably make more sense to revisit the source package after >> 2.6.22-1.5 is available on i386
<TheMuso> Yeah true.
<TheMuso> WIll keep my eye out.
<TheMuso> I'm actually surprised that the package in question uses ioctls.
<TheMuso> No actually I shouldn't be.
<TheMuso> uses sockets
<TheMuso> I'll guess we won't see Mom back on until this problem is fixed also.
<crimsun> is libxine1-ffmpeg installed?
<crimsun> err, -ECHANNEL
<TheMuso> heh
<ScottK> Is dpatch a Build-Dep or a Build-Dep-Indep?
<ajmitch> ScottK: build-dep, it's usually run in the clean: target
<ScottK> ajmitch: Thanks.
<ScottK> eolo999: Are you there?
<ScottK> Is there any kind of special merit badge for successfully adding dpatch to a non-cdbs package (learned some things today)?
<ajmitch> no
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Back to fixing...
<bddebian> ScottK: I'll give ya one ;-)
* ScottK takes before he changes his mind.
<bddebian> Ah well, bed time gnight folks
<persia> bddebian: good night
* ScottK types to slow...
<eolo999> ScottK, yes unluckily...it's five o clock and my son is not sleeping
<ScottK> Yeck.
<ScottK> Check your e-mail.
<ScottK> I hope I did what you would have wanted.
<ScottK> eolo999: ^^^
<eolo999> thanks for all your work
<ScottK> eolo999: Thank you for your contribution.
<eolo999> i read the e-mail
<ScottK> That one turned out to be a little more complex than I had expected.
<eolo999> i hope that pysol now 'really works' and hope to find an easier app to package ;)
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> But don't forget, next after it gets approved for Ubuntu, we want to send the patch to Debian so they can use it too.
<eolo999> it's possible to have a list of commands you used?...
<eolo999> or it's too long
<ScottK> eolo999: Yes.  I will e-mail to you.
<ScottK> Is there anyone from UUS available to look at eolo999's fix for Bug #39975.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 39975 in pysol "Automatic play -> Auto drop setting forgotten" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/39975
<eolo999> ScottK, again you have been very kind, thanks
<ScottK> eolo999: The part I did is not something you should expect to have to do.  As the page you found said, adding dpatch is not easy.
<ScottK> eolo999: If no one is available now, it also goes to a mailing list of people that can upload and so we just wait for the bug status to change.
<ScottK> I also have a sync request: Bug #111155 that's ready for UUS.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111155 in pyyaml "sync request pyyaml 3.04-1 from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111155
<eolo999> if you got an idea of the next package I can work on, tell me ;-)
<ScottK> OK. You can also pick.
<ScottK> eolo999: You want to look into Bug #110219?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110219 in python-gnuplot "python-gnuplot package not working in feisty fawn" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110219
<eolo999> exactly, where do i find packages that need a fix?
<ScottK> Look for interesting looking bugs in Launchpad.
<ScottK> I have not looked at that bug in any detail.  It was on my list of bugs to look at 'later'.
<ScottK> It may turn out to be easy or hard, I have no idea.
<ScottK> Your Python is clearly up to hard ones.  I thought your Pysol fix was a good approach.
<jdong> heaven help me.....
<jdong> I have just spent half an hour writing a russian reversal script......
<ScottK> What have you done now jdong?
<jdong> In Soviet Russia, a russian reversal script writing YOU
<jdong> obviously it needs some work
<jdong> but it is one step closer to cliche'ing yet another joke
<ScottK> OK.
<jdong> lol, just me being my wacko self :D
* ScottK was afraid maybe you accidentally uploaded Automatix or something.
<jdong> haha!
<jdong> I still love Ubuntu :)
* ScottK knows.  Said accidentally.
<jdong> so how are you doing :)
<ScottK> Doing good.
<jdong> glad to hear
<ScottK> Getting other people to fix bugs that annoy me is always good.
<jdong> yay :)
<ScottK> Grow the community at the same time.  All that good stuff.
<jdong> now if only all these dapper-backports would triage themselves... :D
<eolo999> thanks ScottK , now it's time to rest for me ... i'll give a closer look at that bug tomorrow, otherwise i could stay up till tomorrow : )
* ScottK needs to ge clean the kitchen.
<jdong> eolo999: you'll soon learn not to sleep :D
<ScottK> eolo999: Yes, get some rest.
<ScottK> jdong: He has an 11 month old.  He knows already.
<eolo999> jdong, i'm learning with my little son
<jdong> eolo999: ah, yes, that is an excellent way to learn :)
<jdong> I remember when my little sister was that age
<jdong> sleep definitely did not exist
<eolo999> that's why i started python dev
<ScottK> eolo999: Do you use Ubuntu or Kubuntu?
<eolo999> Ubuntu
<eolo999> u?
<ScottK> OK.  I'll leave the Python/KDE bugs out of the stuff I push your way.
<ScottK> Kubuntu
<ScottK> I also have servers running Ubuntu.
<jdong> aha, that's what /reconnect does......
<ScottK> Gotta run for a bit (kitchen duty calls).
<eolo999> dont't be hurt, i find kde still too messy
<ScottK> If you like Gome, you should use Ubuntu.  I can't stand it myself.  To each his own.
<jdong> I've used both heavily before....
<jdong> currently I am using GNOME but with a bunch of KDE apps
<eolo999> same for me jdong 
<jdong> I can't live without K3b, have gotten involved in development/packaging of KTorrent...
<jdong> I love some of the stuff on KDE
<jdong> a lot of the stuff on KDE
<jdong> but I still do not find it intuitive for me as a DE
<jdong> of course that's just my personal tastes :)
<eolo999> ok, this a real 'CIAO'
<eolo999> bye
<RAOF> Hm.  Can I reject bug #94302 (and it's various Feisty duplicates)?  As I understand pacakging, the Conflicts line of the banshee pacakge *should* be preventing these bugs from cropping up, but there seem to be enough bugs filed about it to make me doubt my understanding.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 94302 in banshee "Banshee 0.12.x crashes when old banshee-official-plugins are installed" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94302
<crimsun> well, we definitely don't ship banshee-offical-plugins in feisty.
<ScottK> OTOH, the bug reporter says he had it from Edgy before he upgraded.
<RAOF> Edgy has one though, so people upgrading can still be hit.
<crimsun> I'll attempt the upgrade path in two hours after a fresh reinstall of 6.10
<crimsun> ah hell, this kernel won't finish.  I'll just reinstall 6.10 now.
<persia> Should I be suprised if something build locally (with updated linux-libc-dev), and I see "'ECONNRESET' was not declared in this scope" in a buildd failure log?
<ajmitch> persia: no
<persia> ajmitch: Thanks.  May I presume resubmissions are as normal, but pending the resolution of the kernel issues?
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> they'll just fail & get queued
<persia> Will they be automatically requeued?  I thought requeuing required manual intervention.
<ajmitch> depends
<ajmitch> there'll most likely be a mass give-back
<persia> Ah, that makes sense.  Thanks.
<jdong> "dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${source:Version}"
<jdong> silliness...
* jdong grumbles a bit
<Lichte> Hello
<ScottK> Hello
<Lichte> are there any people here who package gnome-java ?
<ScottK> It's pretty quiet here right now.  
<Lichte> OK
<Lichte> I'll have to check during the day
<ScottK> I'd suggest wait and see.  Certainly not me though.
<ScottK> During the day where?
<Lichte> ScottK: :)
<Lichte> USA
<gpocentek> good morning #ubuntu-motu!
<ScottK> Goog morning gpocentek.
<ScottK> err.. Good morning.
<ajmitch> hi gpocentek 
<Lichte> good evening gpocentek
<ScottK> Lichte: There are people here from all over the world, so it's not always easy to tell when the best time to show up is.
<ScottK> gpocentek: Do you have time for UUS review of a couple of bugs?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<ScottK> Good evening Hobbsee.
<gpocentek> ScottK: yep
<ScottK> Bug #111155
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111155 in pyyaml "sync request pyyaml 3.04-1 from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111155
<gpocentek> hello ajmitch 
<ScottK> gpocentek: and then Bug #39975 is the other.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 39975 in pysol "Automatic play -> Auto drop setting forgotten" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/39975
<ScottK> I may have one more if I can figure out why scapy isn't building even without my patch....
* gpocentek wonders why ScottK is not MOTU yet ;)
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch, ScottK 
* ScottK usually waits to try and join stuff until I'm way over-qualified (not that I think I'm qualified for that yet).
<gpocentek> :)
<ScottK> I will note for the record that you are the first to ask that question.
<ajmitch> ScottK: don't worry, he's one of the ones who'll grill you when you apply
<ScottK> I'd expect nothing less.
<Hobbsee> hah
<ajmitch> & dholbach can hug you to death
* ScottK wouldn't want to be MOTU if not ready.
* Hobbsee will poke around with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  too, if requested
<gpocentek> hehe
<Hobbsee> !timebasedreleases
<ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
* ajmitch got an email yesterday asking me to upgrade a library in feisty. in main
<crimsun> ponies!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hah.  did you use that link, too?
<gpocentek> ScottK: 111155 is OK, I subscribed the archive team
<ScottK> gpocentek: Thanks.
<jdong> ajmitch: heh I get those daily
<jdong> I'm still getting "wah wah firefox wah"
<crimsun> TB 2.0, too?
<ajmitch> jdong: except I'm not a backports crack addict
<crimsun> my fav are TB 2.0 and Azureus 2.5.0.x
<jdong> ajmitch: I'm trying a new 5-step program for that.
<TheMuso> Heya all.,
<ScottK> Heya TheMuso.
<RAOF> Afternoon, TheMuso 
<gpocentek> hello TheMuso 
<crimsun> gracious, a cd-based dist-upgrade takes ages on a Pentium II/266
<TheMuso> Why does that not surprise me?
<crimsun> require more pony powah
<jdong> haha I found a 500MHz unbearable
<jdong> it had a crappy little HDD in it
<jdong> that took forEVER to Reading Package Database....
<ScottK> gpocentek: Thanks for looking at the bugs.  I need to get to bed, so if you find anything wrong with Bug #39975, please just comment in the bug or let me know here (I'll read the scrollback).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 39975 in pysol "Automatic play -> Auto drop setting forgotten" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/39975
<ScottK> Good night all.
<gpocentek> ScottK: I've just uploaded it. Good night!
<ScottK> Great.  Thanks.
<crimsun> RAOF: confirmed.  A dist-upgrade does not remove -official-plugins.
<crimsun> RAOF: (using aptitude.  Did not test apt-get or synaptic.)
<RAOF> crimsun: Mad.  What's aptitude thinking?
<RAOF> What version of banshee-official-plugins is in Edgy and is not removed by dist-upgrade?
<ajmitch> conflicts/replaces with << can be interesting at times
<RAOF> Right.  So, how do we fix it?
<crimsun> RAOF: -official-plugins 0.11.1-0ubuntu2
<RAOF> Hm.  Which dpkg --compare-versions thinks is lt 0.11.4
<crimsun> I can retry with apt-get in the morning
<crimsun> according to Conflicts semantics, though, it /should/ work.
<RAOF> Indeed, that's what's puzzling me.
<crimsun> unless I've utterly misparsed the semantics.
<crimsun> hmm, Breaks doesn't seem appropriate in this scenario, either.
<crimsun> (from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-July/000168.html )
<RAOF> Hm.  Debian policy seems to suggest against a versioned conflicts, but the Ubuntu packages I've looked at have almost always have a versioned Conflicts.
<TheMuso> Gotta love it when you have to contact authors of source code to ask that they add copyright/GPL source header, etc.
<crimsun> cine*?
<TheMuso> crimsun: No. A utility that is shipped with espeak.
<crimsun> fun times.
<TheMuso> Upstream added the utility, but there is no license stated for the code.
<TheMuso> Indeed.
<TheMuso> The utility will only be used in package building, but nevertheless, the source will be available.
<siretart> morning
<Fujitsu> Hi siretart.
<siretart> anyone using ndiswrapper around?
<siretart> hi Fujitsu 
<siretart> crimsun: around?
<crimsun> siretart: hi
<siretart> crimsun: I've asked you before, do you actually use the mailing list motumedia@tauware.de? I see only spam there
<crimsun> siretart: is the spam originating from my address?
<crimsun> siretart: I read the list, if that's what you're asking
<siretart> crimsun: no, I propose to remove that mailing list completely
<crimsun> siretart: oh, ok.  What will replace it?
<siretart> crimsun: what kind of traffic do we have there? bugmail has been disabled for some time now
<Fujitsu> Why doesn't bugmail go there?
<ajmitch> hi siretart 
<siretart> because I removed the contact address of the motumedia team
<siretart> hi ajmitch 
<crimsun> siretart: I've seen perhaps one or two relevant emails.
<Fujitsu> siretart: Well, yes, but why?
<siretart> Fujitsu: I was getting nearly all motumedia bugmails twice
<siretart> we can of course readd the adress, no problem. nobody objected when I proposed to remove it that time however
* Fujitsu murders the last commenter on bug #85474
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 85474 in maxima "Maxima frontends cannot connect" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85474
<crimsun> siretart: sure, +1 on the complete removal.
<gpocentek> siretart: hi, I use ndiswrapper
<siretart> gpocentek: does ndiswrapper use 'wlan0' or 'eth0'?
<gpocentek> wlan0
<siretart> ok. thanks
<gpocentek> np
<dholbach> good morning
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
<gpocentek> morning dholbach 
<TheMuso> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu, hey gpocentek, hey TheMuso
<siretart> gpocentek: do you happen to use WPA with your ndiswrapper wifi device?
<siretart> hi dholbach 
<dholbach> hey siretart
<gpocentek> siretart: I don't
<crimsun> siretart: I do.
<crimsun> Do you need something tested?
<crimsun> (I'm still at the office, but I can test when I arrive home.)
<siretart> crimsun: it's about bug #108013
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108013 in wpasupplicant "wpa_supplicant doesn't work with ndiswrapper anymore (dup-of: 102385)" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108013
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 102385 in wpasupplicant "netgear wg311v2 (acx chipset) using ndiswrapper 1.9 and wpa supllicant fails to associate with access point." [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102385
<siretart> I can't really believe it, and I think I've found something relevant on the upstream mailing list
<crimsun> wpa_supplicant in 7.04 definitely works with ndiswrapper.
<siretart> ok
<crimsun> I've got an unfortunate bcm4311
<siretart> ok, then the upstream post ist most probably correct
<ajmitch> hi dholbach 
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<crimsun> RAOF: hmph, reproduced with apt-get, too.
<RAOF> crimsun: Stupid dpkg.
<crimsun> I wonder if the Breaks code affected it.
<RAOF> Hm.  Maybe?
<crimsun> will have to look later; it's 3:26 AM
<RAOF> Good morning! :)
<crimsun> :)
<jussi01> can someone help me?, ive just created the man page for my program, but when i install the deb, it doesnt seem to have a man page, how do I make it install?
<RAOF> jussi01: As I understand it you generally want some dh_installman magic to install your man pages (ie: it's not totally automatic)
<jussi01> RAOF: yeah, ive got that uncommented, but it stilldoeesnt work... Im a little lost now...
<RAOF> jussi01: You're not using CDBS, I suppose?
<jussi01> RAOF: nah, debhelper
<RAOF> Thought so.
<RAOF> jussi01: Do you have a package.manpages?  Or do you explicitly pass the manpage filename to dh_installman?
<jussi01> RAOF: no, i have package.1 (waon.1) i changed that like the instructions said from manpages.1
<RAOF> jussi01: "man dh_installman" suggests that you need to either pass the manpage to install or have a package.manpages file in the debian/ directory
<jussi01> ahhh, ok
<persia> jussi01: You need to list all the manpages in package.manpages (see man dh_installman).
<jussi01> with "package" meaning the name of my program?
<RAOF> Indeed.
<jussi01> :D Understood!!! 
<RAOF> Or, rather, the name of the binary package it should go in.
<jussi01> okies, ill let you know how it goes. :D
<persia> jussi01: If your source pacakage doesn't have multiple binaries, you can probably just use "manpages2.  If you have multiple binaries, whatevery the binary package name is.
<jussi01> ok, thanks persia
<jussi01> and thanks RAOF also :D
<jussi01> do i really need a man page for the "g" version of the program - its self explainitory.
<RAOF> Probably.  But you should be able to do what grep does (egrep, pgrep, etc all go to the same manpage)
<persia> jussi01: It's annoying for users to not be able to type "man whatever" for any command.  If they are substantially the same, you could make a manpage for both, and link them.
<jussi01> persia: ok. 
<persia> Is gutsy JACK likely to work?  I'm porting freqtweak to wx2.6 (with help from upstream prerelease 0.7.0), and Jack keeps crashing.  I'm not sure if I've broken something, or if it was broken beforehand.
<jussi01> dholbach: ping?
<jussi01> gpocentek: you around?
<dholbach> jussi01: pong
<gpocentek> jussi01: yep
<jussi01> dholbach: Im sending you an email with the link for my upload to revu - could you have a look at it when you have time?
<jussi01> gpocentek: you also?
<jussi01> :D
<jussi01> gpocentek: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4963
* gpocentek just received the REVU mail about waon ;)
<jussi01> :D
<dholbach> jussi01: yes, I'll do that once I got some other work done
<jussi01> dholbach: thanks a lot!!
<\sh> moins
<jussi01> \sh: morning!
<davisc> Can I ask here about status of bugs in the universe repo? 
<gpocentek> jussi01: I don't get why you don't build the pv binary
<jussi01> I removed it because it is a seperate program, and should be its own package, but I can put it back in?
<gpocentek> or you can build 2 binary packages from the same source
<gpocentek> what does pv do?
<jussi01> its a phase vocoder
<jussi01> it is quite related
<jussi01> hmmm, now im having second thoughts
<jussi01> gpocentek: scratch that, Ill pop pv back in. 
<gpocentek> ok
<gpocentek> the pixbuf thing is also very weird
<jussi01> gpocentek: yeah, I still dont understand it. 
<jussi01> gpocentek: out of curiosity what is the gnome2 version of that package?
<gpocentek> jussi01: looks like it's part of gtk+
<jussi01> gpocentek: Ill have another look into it...
<gpocentek> jussi01: it seems that you can patch the gwaon makefile to remove the gdk_pixbuf bits
<gpocentek> it builds fine here without this
<jussi01> gpocentek: could you send the patched makefile over?
<jussi01> and the program runs fine?
<gpocentek> testing...
<gpocentek> yep, it works
<gpocentek> jussi01: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18346/
<jekil> hello
<jussi01> gpocentek: thanks a lot!!
<gpocentek> np :)
<gpocentek> hi jekil 
<persia> Is there something additionally wrong with the powerpc buildd environment?  I've gotten a couple assembler errors from the buildds, for packages that compile for i386 and amd64.
<jussi01> gpocentek: now it should be better :D
<dharrigan> Hi Everyone. I've setup a chroot in /var/chroot following this advice "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot"
<dharrigan> However, it lost me a bit near the end.
<dharrigan> Shall I just perserve becoming root then sudo'ing to chroot to do building + installing (is this easiest)
<dharrigan> ?
<gpocentek> jussi01: it's usually a good idea to document the changes you apply to the sources in debian/changelog
<\sh> siretart, ping ldt.c:80: error: '__NR_modify_ldt' undeclared (first use in this function) is because of broken linux-libc headers?
<jussi01> gpocentek: ah, forgot about the
<jussi01> that
<gpocentek> jussi01: and it's even better if you use a patch system (though I don't think it's not worth the pain here)
<gpocentek> s/not//
<jussi01> :)
<jussi01> gpocentek: so s ingle line entry to change log is all good?
<zakame> anyone got around to making a sid pbuilder on feisty host?  it borks due to sid missing libdevmapper1.02 (it has 1.02.1)
<gpocentek> jussi01: I'm fine with that, let's see what will say Daniel ;)
<jussi01> gpocentek: excellent :D
<jussi01> gpocentek: I just uploaded the one with the fixed changelog
<gpocentek> ok
<gpocentek> jussi01: did you drop the libgdk-pixbuf2 build dep?
<jussi01> gpocentek: thanks for all your help so far! I wouldnt have been able to do it without you. 
<jussi01> gpocentek: yeah
<jussi01> oh, no...
<davisc> Can I ask here about status of bugs in the universe repo? 
<gpocentek> jussi01: we're here to help :)
* jussi01 slaps himself...
<DktrKranz> any sponsor here?
<jussi01> gpocentek: anything else to add before i upload 1 more time?
<jussi01> :D
<gpocentek> let me have a closer look
<gpocentek> jussi01: "Description:A Wave-to-Notes transcriber" << missing space
<gpocentek> before "A"
<jussi01> gpocentek: in control?
<jussi01> yeps, fixed
<gpocentek> jussi01: the "All rights reserved" in README might be a problem
<jussi01> hmm, Ill email the guy and make sure its ok to take that out, but im pretty sure its just some random thing he put there...
<gpocentek> I guess so, but I'm sure that our archive admins won't like it ;)
<gpocentek> jussi01: I have to go, I'll review your next upload later
<gpocentek> see you
<jussi01> gpocentek: thanks again
<cbx33> hey guys
<siretart> \sh: looks like. try building in a feisty chroot
<\sh> siretart, will do it just now :) I wasn't sure, because the symbol is there in asm-<arch>/...
<siretart> \sh: this really smells like the general gutsy breakage
<\sh> siretart, yepp
<shawarma> siretart: "the general gutsy breakage"?
<Nafallo> shawarma: ubuntu-devel@ has info from cjwatson :-)
<siretart>   jepp
<shawarma> Nafallo: ah, I see.
<shawarma> So stuff that manages to compile is just fine, right? The binary packages in the archive should be in working order?
<Fujitsu> If it works, it should be fine.
<Fujitsu> s/works/has built/
<shawarma> Alright.
<shawarma> Otherwise, I'd probably be trying to downgrade my laptop to Feisty again right about now. :-)
<Fujitsu> Yay, somebody asking why we don't just upload a Subversion checkout of mplayer to feisty-updates.
<harrisony> feisty-svn ?
<Q-FUNK> :D
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: lart them from me ;-)
<Q-FUNK> that's starting to sound dangerously close to OpenLSD
<Q-FUNK> 
<Q-FUNK> OpenBSD
<ogra> heh
<Q-FUNK> update?  yes, fetch from CVS and make world.
<ogra> see the dragonfly !
<ogra> sooo colorful :)
<dharrigan> Hi people. I have a chroot environment, that I switch into by "dchroot -c mychroot -d". When I want to sudo, I am asked to type in the root password, but it keeps telling me my passwd is wrong
<dharrigan> from my normal (non-chroot) account, when I type in sudo and then the password, it works fine
<dharrigan> I'm building a package, and I want to dpkg -i it, but I get this problem.
<dharrigan> Anyone know how to fix?
<Amaranth> your chroot has it's own set of passwords
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4961
<ryanakca> It's a chroot utility. builds fine in pbuilder-gutsy, and nothing from lintian/linda (other than a couple I: about minus being used instead of hyphen in the man pages)
<harrisony> bug 111217 is quite interesting
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111217 in matplotlib "not publication quality???" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111217
<StevenK> Is that another way of saying "this is a buggy pile of crap" ?
<StevenK> Heh, no it isn't.
<harrisony> nah its more along the lines of WTF is this doing here, 
<persia> harrisony: Looking at the upstream "What's new", it appears upstream claimed to be able to generate "publication quality" starting with 0.29.  Debian maybe?
<Amaranth> !info matplotlib
<ubotu> Package matplotlib does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
<Amaranth> grr
<StevenK> It looks like matplotlib has been NMU'd 3 times.
<StevenK> I wouldn't NMU it just to change the description.
<eolo999> gpocentek, thanks for uploading pysol... 
<gpocentek> eolo999: thanks for the patch ;)
<ScottK> gpocentek: That was eolo999's first.
<gpocentek> cool :)
* ScottK notes that the new scapy finally got attended to by the build system and FTFBS as expected (hardcoded Python 2.4 paths).
<Q-FUNK> LOL
* ScottK was trying to fix something else a couple of days ago and wondered why it kept FTBFS in my pbuilder.
<PhinnFort> uh oh, we got an endless loop: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/console-setup/+bug/91399
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 91399 in console-setup "fail to install with subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 3" [Medium,Needs info]  
<PhinnFort> (in the comments)
<PhinnFort> he gets an update in the mail, the mailclient answers automatically, an update is sent, it answers, etc.
<PhinnFort> (at least in the mailing archive)
<ScottK> It looks fine on the bug AFAICT.
<PhinnFort> doesn't seem like his mails stick in the comments
<PhinnFort> but it's trickling into my mailbox;)
<PhinnFort> "I am out of the Office until Sunday evening. I will check my mail during the week, but will only awnser a few E-mails."
<ScottK> eolo999: Your job after the upload is to monitor the building of the new package.  Make sure it builds successfully and when it's fully built, mark the bug fix released.
<ScottK> eolo999: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pysol/4.82.1-4.1ubuntu6
<eolo999> ScottK, ok__good morning
<ScottK> PhinnFort: Look in the headers and see where the messages are coming from.  If you don't know how, pastebin the header and I'll tell you.
<PhinnFort> ScottK: they're coming from "Florian Jensen <admin@flosoft.biz>"
<eolo999> successfully built on gutsy
<PhinnFort> Kmail is quite nice
<ScottK> PhinnFort: Not the person in the from, but the server in the header.
<ScottK> eolo999: Then mark it fix released.
<PhinnFort> 10.114.193.3
<ScottK> PhinnFort: Would you pastebin the entire header please.
<eolo999> ScottK, but not feisty
<PhinnFort> http://rafb.net/p/P5XcLi94.html
<ScottK> eolo999: No.  Feisty is already released, so it only goes back to Feisty if it meets specific "Really Important" criteria.
<ScottK> eolo999: See the When section here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
* PhinnFort just got another mail from Florian
<ScottK> PhinnFort: You're getting them from LP, so I'd go to #launchpad and discuss it there.
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<eolo999> ScottK, now its 'fix released'
<ScottK> Great.
<eolo999> ScottK, tried to give a look to Bug #110219, but mailing list reference is wrong
<ScottK> eolo999: Because we had to add dpatch, feeding the patch to Debian is more complex than just sending them the patch.  I'm adjusting what we did to make it useful for them and will take care of sending to the Debian Bug Tracking Systmem.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110219 in python-gnuplot "python-gnuplot package not working in feisty fawn" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110219
<eolo999> ScottK, good.
<ScottK> eolo999: He responded to your post on the bug.  Looks like you may have to do some detective work.
<DktrKranz> \sh, around?
<\sh> DktrKranz, yepp
<DktrKranz> I would like to thank you
<DktrKranz> I noticed you just uploaded some packages :)
<\sh> DktrKranz, yepp, just uploaded...3 minutes ago :;)
<DktrKranz> I hope they won't suffer from build problems
<yondie> does apt have any weird cool plugins?
<shawarma> yondie: Not really.
<shawarma> yondie: What do you want to do?
<shawarma> yondie: There are lots and lots of tools that do things relating to the package database, but no plugins to apt-get as such.
<DarkSun88> \sh: Thank you for upload. :)
<yondie> shawarma: i want some plugins so that i can include https as a method
* shawarma wanders off for a lecture.
<abogani> Someone can sponsor me for Cycletest (http://tglx.de/projects/misc/cyclictest/) package?  Useful package for Gutsy realtime kernel flavour.
<ScottK> eolo999: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=418546 :-)
<ubotu> Debian bug 418546 in pysol "Automatic play -> Auto drop setting forgotten" [Unknown,Open]  
<crimsun> err, sponsoring?  Is the source package on revu?
<shawarma> yondie: apt-transport-https is your friend.
<shawarma> Oh, he buggered off.
<abogani> crimsun: No... Can i found more info about REVU on the wiki?
<ScottK> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<abogani> ScottK: Thanks.
<TheMuso> Yay for debug code in debian/rules. :)
<TheMuso> /c/c
<StevenK> TheMuso: Sea what?
* StevenK ducks.
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> I'll have a good reason to move to GNOME/Orca this release.
<TheMuso> and gnome-terminal
<StevenK> Oh?
<TheMuso> We're dropping speakup as from gutsy.
<StevenK> Why?
<StevenK> Great, now I have to get Sean's DECTalk working.
<TheMuso> Code is a PITA to maintain, due to bad coding, breaks so easily, and the community haven't stepped up to try and help us support it and make it a better piece of code.
<TheMuso> StevenK: If you mean a dec express, I have a replacement speakup_dtexp.c file that makes it work if you'd like it.
<StevenK> I thought upstream had a plan?
<TheMuso> StevenK: So did we.
<TheMuso> StevenK: But its taken way to long to get it sorted, and the code is a mess as it is.
<StevenK> TheMuso: I mean a Digital DECTalk box. Actual hardware.
<TheMuso> The kernel eam want to have as little difference to their kernel from mainline as possible.
<TheMuso> Ah.
<StevenK> speakup + speech-dispatcher seems a little fragile, anyway.
<StevenK> It gets in this funny state where it detaches from it's SHM and then spins. If you kill it, it doesn't clean up the SHM, so you need to do so manually. All without speech.
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<TheMuso> I think its more speechd-up than anything else
<StevenK> Which is no problem for me, but is for Sean.
<TheMuso> I know.
<TheMuso> I'll be making speakup kernels available for gutsy once its released if people want them.
<StevenK> Yeah, I keep forgetting you're well aware of that. Sorry.
<TheMuso> thats ok
<StevenK> TheMuso: How about free hardware synths for any visual impaired Ubuntu users? :-P
<TheMuso> StevenK: If they can be found.
<StevenK> That's a point.
<TheMuso> The older serial only ones are hard to come by, unless you buy a doubletalk brand new
<TheMuso> And I'm not giving any of mine up for anything!
<StevenK> Sean said DECTalk's are as rare as hens teeth.
<TheMuso> Damn straight.
<TheMuso> I have two of them luckily.
<TheMuso> Picked em up second hand for cheap as chips
<StevenK> Neat.
<TheMuso> If I have a choice, I'd rather use hardware synths any day.
<TheMuso> Less crap tying up the CPU.
<StevenK> Why not use them, then?
<TheMuso> I do.
<TheMuso> But only on the console.
<TheMuso> I need to learn more python and write serial synth support for Orca.
<StevenK> Orca, gnome-speech or both?
<StevenK> I'm still not sure of the software stack for speech under X.
<TheMuso> Orca can either use gnome-speech, emacspeak, or speech-dispatcher.
<TheMuso> I'd actually write another speech module for orca to work with hardware synths, and tie in another GUI window to configure them.
<StevenK> So if your Evil Plan is sucessful, it wouldn't use any of them.
<TheMuso> Nope.
<cbx33> oooh
<cbx33> TheMuso, sounds .... evil !
<TheMuso> For hardware synths at least.
<cbx33> how ya doin
<elkbuntu> cbx33, that's because TheMuso *is* evil
<TheMuso> cbx33: I'm talking about speech synthesis here.
<cbx33> hehe
<StevenK> TheMuso: Need any help learning Python?
* cbx33 did a lot of that at uni
* cbx33 is an acoustical engineering you know :p
<Hobbsee> yes, TheMuso is very evil.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Not really. Just getting the syntax right, which is not hard to work out from reading the orca code. Then its just a matter of learning the API, and glade.
* cbx33 has never ever found TheMuso to be evil
<jsgotangco> he's evil
<TheMuso> StevenK: I certainly know who to ask if I do, several people are here presently.
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> just gimme a shout if I can be of help ;)
<StevenK> TheMuso: Glade seems to be pretty easy to pick up.
<cbx33> it is
<cbx33> very
<StevenK> TheMuso: If an idiot like me can understand and use it, anyone can.
<persia> TheMuso: Do you have a special attachment to sooperlooper?  I'd like to process the merge whilst working on my plan to abolish wxwindows2.4.
<StevenK> persia: Abolish all the way out of the archive?
<TheMuso> heh
<cbx33> hehe
<persia> StevenK: If possible.  eCos looks tricky :)
<TheMuso> persia: Not particularly, but I can have a look if you'd like,.
<persia> the: No worries, you just processed a merge since my last patch, and I wanted to check.  I'll proceed.
<TheMuso> But I may be going to bed soon, and I'm still having fun with preparing a new upstream package for main.
<siretart> persia: do you actually use eCos from the package?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: then you can bug StevenK into sponsoring it
<persia> TheMuso: It will be a couple days.  sooperlooper waits for linux-libc-dev
<StevenK> Can he?
<StevenK> Well, he can try. :-P
<persia> siretart: I don't use it at all.  It just build-depends on libwxgtk2.4-dev
<crimsun> err, um, killing wxwindows2.4?
<crimsun> that's ... interesting.
<TheMuso> heh
<crimsun> do you plan to drop audacity 1.2.x?
* TheMuso has had a good belly laugh in the last ten minutes.
<persia> crimsun: I want to.  It's only 14 packages.  3 have fixes in Debian.  4 have publically available patches.  I can probably do the others before I have to go back to work.
<persia> crimsun: Um.  Debian did.  Do you want to keep it here?
<crimsun> I have no compelling wish to, but I'm not its primary caregiver
<crimsun> I'm not exactly thrilled about its current bug count
<crimsun> it just needs to be evaluated carefully, since 1.3 is purportedly less stable
<persia> I've not been giving it much attention for the past year or so :(  Sorry.
<StevenK> TheMuso: We're that entertaining?
<crimsun> I'm definitely not going to be pushing for random new versions given gutsy's purported intent of stabilisation
<persia> I'm inclined to trust Free when it comes to audio apps, but I'll check about stability prior to pushing very hard.
<TheMuso> StevenK: All the evil comments.
<crimsun> fbond: any movement on the -firmware front?
<ScottK> I have an update ready that fixes both an FTBFS and a crasher in scapy that's ready for UUS review if anyone is availalble.  The fix is attached to bug #111221.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111221 in scapy "scapy FTBFS in Gutsy due to hard coded Python 2.4 paths" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111221
<TheMuso> ScottK: I presume it doesn't need to wait on linux-libc-dev?
<ScottK> TheMuso: It's a pure python package, so I would think not.
<TheMuso> ah
* ScottK is very unlikely to be able to fix anything that needs to wait on linux-libc-dev.
<StevenK> linux-libc-dev is almost sorted out.
<ScottK> doko: If a Debian package is packaged with hard coded paths for Python 2.4, is that fair game to file a bug in BTS (wondering since they don't have 2.5 support yet)?
<doko> ScottK: sure, and don't forget to attach a patch
<ScottK> doko: No problem.  It's a one liner.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> Is FTBFS an Ubuntu unique term or does Debian use it too?
<TheMuso> I've seen it in Debian bugs.
<StevenK> Debian does too.
<ScottK> Thanks
<persia> ScottK: Debian did it before Ubuntu existed.
* Hobbsee is wondering when PBU will be a similar term
<ScottK> persia: Thanks.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: ?
<Hobbsee> PBU == Package Blew Up.
<TheMuso> ah
<siretart> Hobbsee: smells like SNAFU ;)
* Hobbsee doesnt know what that is
* Hobbsee has herad it before, though
<StevenK> Situation Normal, All Fucked Up
<siretart> right
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<TheMuso> haha good one
<TheMuso> yay! Package builds at last!
<ScottK> Hobbsee: You can also use Fouled for $F if needed for the audience.
<Hobbsee> heh
* TheMuso readies himself for bed.
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<dholbach> night TheMuso
<cbx33> hi all
<cbx33> I know this isn't exactly the place to ask, but it's the only IRC server i can get to right now
<cbx33> anyone know the deskbar applet?
<cbx33> if so
<cbx33> how do they do that little window that comes up when you clikco nthe arrow?
<cbx33> i know it's gtk jiggery pokery
<fbond> crimsun: (re: -firmware) everything is quiet, and working correctly (to the best of my knowledge)
<sivang> Has anyone seen Mellisa Draper?
<codingmaster> Hello Ubuntu MOTU!
<codingmaster> I am participating this year in the Summer of Code for Ubuntu.
<codingmaster> I am working on the Ubuntu Firewall Configuration.
<codingmaster> I hope you can help me by adding suggestions for a good project name, using this wiki:
<codingmaster> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFirewallConfiguration/Name
<codingmaster> Thanks in advance to all of you!!!
<ScottK> codingmaster: But Ubuntu doesn't ship with a "firewall".  Not sure exactly what you mean.
<codingmaster> just check the wiki page
<codingmaster> I am working on a Ubuntu Firewall
<codingmaster> that will be shipped
<codingmaster> when it is finished
<codingmaster> it is my Summer of Code project
<codingmaster> I hope to get some good suggestions for a great project name :D
<bddebian> Heya gang
<boss-bcp> Could someone take a look at libpam-cups ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4936 ) for me? It's currently been advocated by one MOTU.
<ScottK> bddebian: Got time for a bug fix upload?
<ranf> hi
<ScottK> Hi
<geser> ScottK: what do you need uploaded?
<ScottK> Bug #111221
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111221 in scapy "scapy FTBFS in Gutsy due to hard coded Python 2.4 paths" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111221
<ScottK> geser^^
<geser> will uploaded it
<ScottK> geser: Thanks.
<bddebian> ScottK: Probably in a little bit, sure
<bddebian> Oh, nm
* bddebian glares at geser ;-P
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> :-) Heya geser
<geser> ScottK: what's the rationale to move B-D-I to B-D? doesn't it build without this change?
<persia> bddebian: If you really want one, I can give you one :)
<ScottK> geser: It does build, but Lintian givew you errors.
<geser> ah, ok then
<ScottK> geser: I looked and that same change is already in the svn trunk at Debian Python Modules Team for their next release.
<bddebian> So won't we sync it?
<ScottK> Eventually.  It's not released yet.
<ScottK> The point is it's not a diff with Debian we'll have to maintain.
<geser> and only if the Debian package fixes the python2.4 build failure
<persia> ScottK: If you upload Xubuntu1, the automatic sync stops.  You'll have to watch for the release.
<ScottK> geser: Yes.  I committed that change to Debian Python Modules Team svn.  The only long term diff we end up with is the fix for the Ubuntu specific networking problem.
<geser> you have access to it?
<ScottK> persia: Yes, but of bug #96753, we are going to have to merge anyway.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 96753 in scapy "[feisty]  scapy crashes using any version of python" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96753
<ScottK> geser: Yes.
<geser> yeah
<persia> ScottK: Ah, right.  Nevermind, I'll go back to things I understand.
<ScottK> If it weren't for there being an Ubuntu specific change we are going to be stuck with anyway, I would have just pushed the change in Debian and waited.
<ScottK> NP
<geser> ScottK: either fetch devscripts from gutsy or don't forget to change the distribution in the changelog :)
<ScottK> Aww.  Rats.
<ScottK> Do you want me to redo it or will you fix it.
<ScottK> ?
<geser> I've fixed it already
<ScottK> geser: Thanks.
* ScottK is needing to ask for help on how you dist-upgrade a pbuilder too.
<geser> I did it with pbuilder login --save-after-login and dist-upgraded
<ScottK> geser: Thanks.  I'll give that a shot then.
<bddebian> pbuilder update --distribution gutsy --override-config?
<bddebian> Of course you need to change all your sources.list and such
<persia> Wouldn't that also require an updated debootstrap?
<ScottK> Which AFAIK isn't avaialble yet.
<geser> ScottK: uploaded
<ScottK> geser: Thanks.
<bddebian> persia: Nope
<persia> ScottK: gutsy debootstrap was published 25th April (in gutsy only).
<ScottK> Ahh.
<ScottK> That explain why I don't get it....
<ranf> I grabbed 0.3.3.2ubuntu3 today from the pool.
<jdong> persia: is that debootstrap stable?
* persia should really investigate pbuilder again
<persia> jdong: I don't know.  I haven't tried to do anything with debootstrap for about 5 months.
<jdong> ok, I'll test it out later then
<jdong> if it's good then I'd like to backport it....
<DktrKranz> jdong, if I mind well, it fixes a problem with sid
<DktrKranz> so, it could be useful having it for feisty
<jdong> K, I'll test it later on
* jdong queues the builds
<sacater> hey, sorry, im still having SIP trouble, can anyonehere test ekiga with me, i have set it up my end
<sacater> LaserJock: elli there :D
<sacater> oh bye them :D
<sacater> then*
<Kmos> how is member of app-install-data-commercial team ?
<Kmos> to update opera to v9.2
<Kmos> bug 105859
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 105859 in app-install-data-commercial "Opera 9.2 is out with many bug fixes" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105859
<boss-bcp> Could someone take a look at libpam-cups ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4936 ) for me? It's currently been advocated by one MOTU.
<ajmitch> morning
<crimsun> moin
<ajmitch> boss-bcp: did you change what I asked you to?
<ScottK> good morning ajmitch.
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ScottK> I'm trying to convert a single source package to provide two binary packages instead of all in one.  It's a Python package that uses pysupport.  If anyone knows of I good example I can crib off of, I'd appreciate it if you'd point me in that direction.
<imbrandon> moins ajmitch bddebian crimsun 
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<jdong> hi imbrandon :)
<imbrandon> ello jdong 
<jdong> does my ktorrent package look good for gutsy upload?
<imbrandon> jdong, yea , i'm waiting on a phone call from jono then i'll hop on it
<jdong> awesome :)
* jdong passes time scripting more libnotify madness
<bddebian> w00t, I think I may have actually fixed rate-engine
<jdong> I've now got a disk based spool going
<jdong> so that it can actually have a queue of notifications _without_ race conditions
<imbrandon> is there a ubuntu-mentors channel active ?
<imbrandon> crimsun, ^
<imbrandon> libnotify rocks
<imbrandon> i've been playing with it a bit and irssi remote sessions lately
<jdong> likewise
<jdong> I was trying some of the blogged solutions for libnotify remotely queued popups
<jdong> but haven't been able to get them to work without duplicating or truncating notification queue....
<jdong> so I wrote a set of notify-push/notify-pop/notify-peek scripts that maintain a spool dir on disk
<jdong> one file per notification, named by time.time()
<jdong> so much work for those pretty bubbles :)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> well the nice thing is hopefully i can get them working with growl and/or libnotify via fink on osx also
<crimsun> imbrandon: I don't know.  If so, it hasn't come across my vision.
<imbrandon> crimsun, ok cool, just wondering
<imbrandon> woot, goot a good MOTU plug on LugRadio
<ajmitch> oh good
<imbrandon> hopefully i dident sound like a a$$ too much :)
<ajmitch> it was mentioned that we're a lazy pack of bums who lurk on irc?
<imbrandon> heheh
<imbrandon> not quite like that
<imbrandon> just a 5 minute spot on MOTU packageing for s04 espsidode 18 iirc :)
<ajmitch> ah right
<ajmitch> imbrandon, international radio superstar
<imbrandon> hahah not quite
<imbrandon> i need to give jono hell for not recording it in jokosher yet though
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> hrm
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4961
<ryanakca> It's a chroot utility
<ryanakca> builds fine in pbuilder-gutsy, and lintian + linda return no errors (Just a couple I: about a minus sign being used instead of a hypen in the man pages)
<ajmitch> fun to see people requesting updates on u-devel-discuss for packages in feisty
<imbrandon> ajmitch, like sru's ?
<ajmitch> like new upstream versions
<imbrandon> or [..] 
<imbrandon> ohh
<ajmitch> new version of alsa, for example
* ajmitch wonders if he can strip some ram out of the unused XP box here at work..
<ajmitch> firefox in < 512MB RAM is not happy ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<pochu> hi all!
<DktrKranz> hi pochu 
<pochu> wxwidgets2.8 failed to build because the bad kernel headers, should I create a .build1, or ask an admin to give it back?
<pochu> hi DktrKranz 
<DktrKranz> if I mind well, such builds should be rescheduled by a buildd admin
<DktrKranz> I've got a similar issue too :(
<pochu> so do I poke one in -dev, right?
<pochu> gonna try :)
<DktrKranz> maybe there's some here
<Lichte> Hi all
<Amaranth> so
<DktrKranz> any sponsor for a FTBFS?
<pygi> anyone wanna take a look and tell me how much mistakes I did? :)
<Amaranth> is anyone getting to sevilla at around 1pm on the 5th?
<Lichte> anyone here package gnome-java ?
<gnomefreak> anyone know the policy for backporting python?
* gnomefreak doesnt think it fits inside the rules for backporting
<DktrKranz> gnomefreak, is it a standalone application?
<Amaranth> gnomefreak: not going to happen
<DktrKranz> or python interpreter?
<gnomefreak> Amaranth: i didnt think so
<Amaranth> _everything_ uses python :)
<gnomefreak> yeah i know that is what i was explaining to him
<jdong> gnomefreak: the entire interpretor? no way
<jdong> and that's an authoritative no way
<jdong> I saw the backport
<gnomefreak> thats what ive been trying to tell him :(
<jdong> I'll go ahead and handle the backports bug
<gnomefreak> i just pasted it to him 
<jdong> if LP wouldn't be stupidly slow
<gnomefreak> jdong: he said he filed one a little while ago so it might be his
<jdong> @cox.net?
<gnomefreak> hes wondering how to file a bug against feisty-backports
<gnomefreak> yes thats him
* ajmitch wonders why it's such a definite 'no way' :)
<jdong> against feisty?
<jdong> ajmitch: lol
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-01
<ajmitch> jdong: from rc to final
<gnomefreak> jdong: to backport things to feisty backports you would file against feisty-backports in LP and you cant
<gnomefreak> everything would have to be rebuilt no?
* gnomefreak guessing most are using shlibs
<jdong> ajmitch: what changes are there from RC to final?
<jdong> and who handles security updates, etc for such a backport?
<gnomefreak> we could push that through secruity couldnt we?
<pochu> jdong: you, of course!! :p
<gnomefreak> security
<jdong> if it's truly nonintrusive enough for rc->final, then SRU it.
<jdong> force the version to final
* jdong does a quick debdiff...
<ajmitch> jdong: just talk to doko about it
<jdong>  33 files changed, 52338 insertions(+), 54230 deletions(-)
<shawarma> ajmitch: Did you get my /msg earlier?
<jdong> 10k of them are a UUE'd doc file
<WebMaven> jdong: is that a lot?
<gnomefreak> its only a fifth of the changes waits to hear others
<WebMaven> (and the two numbers seem suspiciously close)
<jdong> WebMaven: it's uncomrtably much, especially me not being a python dev....
<imbrandon> jdong, where is your gutsy dsc for ktorrent ?
<WebMaven> jdong: which two did you just compare?
<DktrKranz> ajmitch, have you got some time to sponsor a FTBFS fix?
<jdong> imbrandon: http://web.mit.edu/jdong/www/misc/sponsor/ktorrent_2.1.4-0ubuntu1.dsc
<jdong> WebMaven: I compared feisty with edgy
<ajmitch> DktrKranz: no
<WebMaven> so, that was the diff between 2.4.4 and 2.4.4c1?
<jdong> there is over a thousand lines in various patches and code changes
<DktrKranz> np, thanks anyway
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4961 ?
<ryanakca> It's a chroot utility that builds fine in pbuilder-gutsy, and lintian + linda return no errors (Just a couple I: about a minus sign being used instead of a hypen in the man    Czessi pages)  
<jdong> WebMaven: http://pastebin.ca/466311
<jdong> pay no attention to the docs.uue
<ryanakca> oops, sorry. (copy paste)
<imbrandon> jdong, uploaded gutsy ktorrent
<jdong> thanks imbrandon 
<imbrandon> np
<jdong> do you look at main SRU's too, or is that not your thing?
<superm1> imbrandon, before i forget, could you ack that other backport that you looked over a week ago or so?
<pochu> imbrandon: do you want to upload liferea too? :)
<imbrandon> sometimes, depends on if its an app i am familiar with
<jdong> imbrandon: ktorrent? :)
<imbrandon> superm1, aure
<WebMaven> jdong: Just about none of that is changes to Python, it's all debian stuff...
<imbrandon> sure*
<jdong> WebMaven: umm... *.dpatch directly patch python source....
<WebMaven> Hmm. OK.
<jdong> and looking over it, a direct backport won't work for sure; apport hooks are all in there
<WebMaven> ??
<imbrandon> links2 -g https://launchpad.net
<imbrandon> err
<Loic> imbrandon, libvidcore4 still hasn't showed in proposed
<siti> with pbuilder, I want to test/make multiple packages that depend on each other, how can I do this?
<imbrandon> Loic, it might still be on the buildd's
<WebMaven> jdong: ??
<Loic> Ok, thanks. I don't really know much about the time it takes :)
<jdong> WebMaven: Feisty python is patched with apport crash handling hooks, and I'm sure Edgy's apport will not correctly react to being triggered by Python
* pochu wonders whether somebody wants to sponsor him :-)
* jdong generates debdiff w/o .uue
<imbrandon> pochu, for ?
<WebMaven> is that apport-support.dpatch ?
<pochu> imbrandon: liferea (and/or wesnoth)
<jdong> yep
<gnomefreak> pochu: you might not want to do that yet
<pochu> gnomefreak: why?
<WebMaven> jdong: so, leave that bit out?
<gnomefreak> pochu: we changed alot of things on the way mozilla apps build/ depends on
<pochu> btw, gnomefreak, what did you want yesterday?
<gnomefreak> we == mozilla-team
<gnomefreak> pochu: i figured it out :)
<jdong> WebMaven: that would make it a source-change backport, but it also doesn't solve the issue with it excluded....
<pochu> gnomefreak: I've built it here and tested it and it works fine
<gnomefreak> i had to rebuild liferea
<jdong>  32 files changed, 1234 insertions(+), 326 deletions(-)
<jdong> that's still HUGE
<gnomefreak> pochu: we havent gotten hunspell nss and nspr in yet
<pochu> gnomefreak: hmm, how long will it take to be there? :)
<jdong> http://pastebin.ca/466327
<gnomefreak> hunspell == OO.o guys iirc but asac should have already pinged them about it
* pochu wonders whether somebody wants to sponsor wesnoth :)
<gnomefreak> pochu: i dont know atm. nss and nspr should have been pushed today but i havent seen it yet
<pochu> gnomefreak: cool, then I'll wait
<WebMaven> Hmm.
<jdong> imbrandon: would you be willing to look at KTorrent SRU bug 110881?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110881 in ktorrent "[SRU]  Citical bug cherrypicks from SVN" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110881
<WebMaven> jdong: well, if I can't have a 2.4.4 final on Edgy, I guess I can upgrade.
<jdong> WebMaven: or you can cheat the check out of zope3.
<Lichte> anyone here package java-gnome ?
<WebMaven> jdong: is there a similar problem backporting Gutsy's 2.5.1 to Feisty?
<imbrandon> jdong, yes, just not right this moment ( eating )
<jdong> imbrandon: ok, enjoy your food
<gnomefreak> pochu: i should know more this time tomorrow and i will let you know. is this 1.3?
<jdong> WebMaven: yes. I general I do not backport any language stacks because it could cause a wide range of undexpected changes in behavior that I would be unable to support
<pochu> gnomefreak: no, 1.3 is still beta, and will take some time to be final
<gnomefreak> from what i saw its stable
<WebMaven> jdong: I can't solve my problem by modifying Zope's source because I've got a deployment process that gets a fresh checkout of Zope3.
<pochu> gnomefreak: it's 1.2.13 (which fixes at least 3 crashes in LP)
<pochu> gnomefreak: it isn't
<jdong> WebMaven: you could use a tool such as prevu to make your own python2.4 backport
<WebMaven> jdong: that sounds interesting...
<gnomefreak> maybe 1.2.13 im thining of but checking just ot make sure i am crazy :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, arround?
<gnomefreak> yeah i see it
<ajmitch> imbrandon: vaguely
<WebMaven> jdong: how did Gutsy's Python2.5 accumulate so many changes so soon?
<gnomefreak> well i pinged him to see if we pushed the libs but most likely i get answer tomorrow
<imbrandon> have you seen many/any sarge to etch ( specificly apache2 to apache2.2 ) production updates ?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ^
<jdong> WebMaven: because a Ubuntu dev uploaded a new version :)
<imbrandon> i'm thinking about upgrading edgy --> feisty on my production webserver to get apache2.2
<ajmitch> imbrandon: why, what's the problem?
<pochu> gnomefreak: no worries, it can wait :)
<ajmitch> it's not a big jump
<imbrandon> nothing yet, just looking for pitfals if there was any
<ajmitch> ought to work
<WebMaven> jdong: I understand that, I mean, why is the 2.5.1 final package (for Gutsy) so different from the 2.5.1 rc1 package for Feisty?
<imbrandon> kk
<jdong> WebMaven: I haven't debdiffed it, but I would expect a similarly large set of changes
<WebMaven> Are you sure it's got just as many changes as... Ah, OK.
<WebMaven> jdong: How do I check myself?
<gnomefreak> debdiff command
<jdong> WebMaven: wget the dsc, orig.tar.gz, diff.gz for both releases
<jdong> WebMaven: run debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
<jdong> WebMaven: if the screen overflows the default size of your terminal, then no way ;-)
<gnomefreak> lol
<jdong> gnomefreak: :)
<WebMaven> debdiff is not installed.
<gnomefreak> install it?
<jdong> install devscripts
<pochu> ok folks, I'm off to bed now
<jdong> I think it's in there
<gnomefreak> jdong: sadly it is
<pochu> If anyone wants to sponsor me, wesnoth is at http://emilio.pozuelo.org/deb/ :)
* gnomefreak fought ffor what seemed like all day trying to figure that out
<jdong> gnomefreak: apt-file search? :)
<gnomefreak> jdong: i have had nothing but bad times with apt-file
<jdong> hey pochu, you've been triaging some of the xserver-xgl bugs, right?
<pochu> jdong: can't remember :)
<pochu> jdong: I triaged some compiz bugs, beryl-core...
<pochu> maybe xserver-xgl too
<Amaranth> pochu: you're stuck, you've got to handle all things bling ;)
<Amaranth> i've been worthless with bug triage lately
<gnomefreak> me too
<Amaranth> mostly people all the new bugs are problems caused by the package and not upstream
<pochu> Amaranth: yeah, no activity from your side! :(
<Amaranth> and i run fresh git
<Amaranth> err
<Amaranth> s/people/because/
<jdong> WebMaven:  21 files changed, 1731 insertions(+), 94 deletions(-)
<Amaranth> so i just ignore them and know that when compiz gets updated to 0.5 in gutsy they'll go away
<jdong> WebMaven: a 1000 line blob labeled "svn-updates.dpatch"
<WebMaven> jdong, gnomefreak: devscripts installed, python packages downloading.
<pochu> Amaranth: then package it! :)
<pochu> though I don't know whether we should package 0.4 or 0.5
<Amaranth> pochu: hehe, i gotta work :)
<Amaranth> 0.5 for sure
<Amaranth> this software is so new and developing so fast the latest development version is almost certainly better than anything else
<WebMaven> jdong: how did you get the chart?
<jdong> WebMaven: pipe it to diffstat
<jdong> (install diffstat first!)
<pochu> night all!
<jdong> WebMaven: my "adjusted" charts are from unpacking the sources and removing *.uue
<Amaranth> jdong: dude with a 3 year old laptop and a native upstart system got a 19 second boot
<Amaranth> from grub to X asking him to login (with the e17 login manager)
<jdong> Amaranth: damn! where'd you get native upstart?
<jdong> wrote your own events?
<Amaranth> not me
<Amaranth> i'm thinking with his setup i'd get like 10 seconds though :D
<jdong> cool
<Amaranth> he doesn't have too many extras though
<Fujitsu> Hopefully Gutsy will see replacement of some of that stuff.
<Amaranth> just "this shit needs to boot", X, and the things dbus used to start
<Amaranth> err, is needed to boot
<Amaranth> and wow i'm in -motu, not forums :)
<WebMaven> jdong: OK.
<WebMaven> can you paste your chart so I don't have to do that too?
<jdong> WebMaven: ok
<jdong> WebMaven: http://pastebin.ca/466357
<jdong> WebMaven: as I've said before, you can probably do these backports yourself with prevu or pbuilder without a hitch...
<jdong> but it is not appropriate for the official backports repo
<WebMaven> can you tell what the heck that svn-updates.dpatch is?
<WebMaven> everything else is pretty small.
<jdong> WebMaven: a gigantic clump of code updates pulled from python SVN
<jdong> that's the part I am most worried about :D
<WebMaven> you mean, they just grabbed stuff from svn *on top* of the official python release?
<jdong> yep
<WebMaven> :-(
<jdong> WebMaven: http://pastebin.ca/466362 diffstat on that dpatch
<jdong> it makes changes all over the charts
<ryanakca> anybody?
<WebMaven> Hmm. alll the .tex stuff is docs.
<jdong> it's not the docs that I'm worried about
<jdong> it's the other changes it makes to every other module in there that bothers me
<Amaranth> #
<Amaranth> #
<Amaranth>  Modules/cPickle.c                  |   19 +-
<Amaranth> #
<Amaranth>  Modules/cStringIO.c                |   16 +-
<WebMaven> Lib/test are, well, tests.
<Amaranth> #
<Amaranth>  Modules/posixmodule.c              |    7
<Amaranth> #
<Amaranth>  Objects/exceptions.c               |    2
<WebMaven> yeah.
<Amaranth> #
<Amaranth>  Objects/longobject.c               |    8 +
<Amaranth> whoa, bad paste
<Amaranth> those right there make it an instant "no"
<Amaranth> and/or "over my dead body"
<WebMaven> yeah, I see that.
<Amaranth> unless it's broken up into pieces and each patch explains what it does
<Amaranth> jdong: you're horrible :P
<jdong> Amaranth: LOL
<WebMaven> This is just crazy.
<jdong> may I propose the crackpot "don't tell us you did this" solution.....
<WebMaven> Eh?
<jdong> change the #define'd version to 2.4.4 in the source, release type FINAL instead of GAMMA
<jdong> and dpkg-buildpackage
<jdong> lol
<WebMaven> Ew.
<jdong> I know
<WebMaven> Well, for 2.4.4, I just need to upgrade to Feisty.
<jdong> but zope wouldn't know the difference :D
<jdong> yeah, that'll fix your problems too
<ajmitch> you can tell zope to ignore the python version anyway
<WebMaven> ajmitch: yes, I am aware of that.
<ajmitch> WebMaven: I knew you would be :)
<WebMaven> I have an automated build-and-deploy system I am dependent on that pulls a fresh Zope3 down and compiles it in a workingenv directory.
<jdong> modify your deployment system then :)
<WebMaven> if it was *mine* I would.
<WebMaven> And, in any case, passing the python explicitly is *very* annoying.
<ajmitch> agreed
<jdong> is forcing the version to appear as final really that crackful?
<ajmitch> jdong: it can be
* imbrandon grabs a mt dew and decides to upgrade his box remotely to feisty
<jdong> heck it's not like the current naming isn't deceptive already with SVN cherrypicks
<WebMaven> But, based on these stats, I understand why a backport isn't in the cards.
<WebMaven> crackful?
<WebMaven> dabaR: ??
<dabaR> :)
<WebMaven> dabaR: I know about the tab key...
<WebMaven> dabaR: I don't get it... what were you trying to tell me?
<dabaR> WebMaven: you never got a reply. I suggested prepending his nick.
<WebMaven> Oh, I see. Thta was convoluted.
<WebMaven> jdong: crackful?
<jdong> i.e. unwise, insane
<ScottK> jdong: Doesn't that mean you'll be in favor?
<jdong> :P
<jdong> I am trying this new 10-step program.
<WebMaven> |-Q
<jdong> it's working, so hush :)
<WebMaven> How can you tell it is working?
<WebMaven> 'cause I've been using this spray-can of elephant repellent all day, and whadaya know, I haven't seen an elephant all day...
<Adri2000> I have an announcement for everyone who wants to start working on merges... :)
<Adri2000> After 3 days coding, here it is: DaD, written by Lutin and me, is a free Merge-o-Matic with features such as comment ability on the web page and automatic maintainer field update (another great feature is that it's up to date)
<Adri2000> It may be still a bit buggy with some particular packages, patches welcome :)
<Adri2000> http://adrishost.homeip.net/DaD/merges/ (note: it's still updating)
<TheMuso> Adri2000: You rock!
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<sharms> Adri2000: looks awesome
<TheMuso> I might modify grab-merge.sh to talk to that if you don't mind.
<TheMuso> Unless you have done one already?
<Adri2000> TheMuso: already done
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<Adri2000> http://adrishost.homeip.net/DaD/grab-merge.sh should work :)
<Lutin_> :)
<TheMuso> Perhaps this is worty of an addition to the topic.
<Toadstool> Adri2000: send a mail to u-motu@, this is awesome!
* Toadstool waves
<TheMuso> Heya Toadstool.
<Toadstool> hey TheMuso 
<Adri2000> hey Toadstool :)
<Lutin_> hey Toadstool 
<Toadstool> hi Adri2000 & Lutin_ 
<ajmitch> Adri2000: if only it were completely accurate :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Adri2000] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe/Multiverse Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | Gutsy open for uploading | Let's merge! http://adrishost.homeip.net/DaD/merges/
<Adri2000> ajmitch: explain?
<ajmitch> don't worry, I thought it had ignored the section changes, but I see the .patch generated is against the last debian version
<ajmitch> it does drop earlier ubuntu changelog entries though
<Adri2000> ajmitch: which package?
<ajmitch> or not..
<Adri2000> "It may be still a bit buggy with some particular packages" < it's probably one of those :)
<ajmitch> looks like the debian maintainer included them
<ajmitch> which isn't usual
<DktrKranz> Adri2000, Lutin, good work :)
<Lutin> ajmitch: so, is it an acutal issue ?
<Lutin> DktrKranz: thanks
<DktrKranz> just a little question, if I can
<ajmitch> Lutin: doesn't appear to be, for this one
<Lutin> ajmitch: yay :)
<Lutin> DktrKranz: sure
<ajmitch> just appears to be a sync request now
<DktrKranz> how do you manage comments?
<TheMuso> I have one of my packages here and it seems to have the changelog entries II previously added.
<Lutin> DktrKranz: ask Adri2000 :=) . it's a php thing, I can't tell
<Adri2000> DktrKranz: you mean how does one change them?
<Adri2000> DktrKranz: or how do we store them?
<DktrKranz> both
<Adri2000> 1) change it and press enter
<Adri2000> 2) they are stored in a file
<Adri2000> and we use php
<WebMaven> Adri2000: how long will it take to complete? It is up to 'nethack' right now.
<DktrKranz> understood, thanks
<DktrKranz> once again, good work guys :D
<Adri2000> WebMaven: well currently it's downloading a 55Mb file, so it may take some time
<Lutin> DktrKranz: once again, thanks ;)
<Adri2000> WebMaven: but it's the first time we run the script completly, then it will be just updates
<Fujitsu> Did I do something wrong, or does the LVM initramfs hook have to be manually modified to boot from a VG with snaphots?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Let me guess. Gutsy?
<Fujitsu> No, Feisty.
<Toadstool> Adri2000: how often will the page be updated once the first update is complete?
<TheMuso> oh
<Fujitsu> Creating snapshots to check that an upgrade doesn't totally screw things up.
<TheMuso> ah
<Fujitsu> But upon rebooting, I had to load dm-snapshot in the initramfs manually, and mount everything.
<Lutin> Toadstool: we don't know yet
<Adri2000> Toadstool: dunno, once a day would be good?
<ajmitch> well debian only updates daily
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: Where'd you get the scripts to do that?
<Fujitsu> I thought MoM was nice and closed.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: you think it's that hard to duplicate?
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: from my head and Lutin's head :p
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Well, probably not.
<ajmitch> Adri2000: bzr branch for it?
<Adri2000> ajmitch: not yet
<Fujitsu> I just thought it looked surpisingly similar.
<Lutin> ajmitch: not yet. still needs dome cleanups / fixes
<Lutin> some*
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: How's your upstream bandwidth?
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: not a lot :p
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: we will probably move to another server soon
<ajmitch> Adri2000: please turn comments of the form "bug #12345" into the appropriate lp link please :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
<Adri2000> ajmitch: it's an <input type="text">, you can't make links in that :/
<ajmitch> suck
<Lutin> maybe we could generate an LP link from the comment and place it somewhere
<WebMaven> wow, bug #12345...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
<WebMaven> What a special number...
<jdong> I still like bug 666 the best
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 666 in malone "can't file a bug on Ubuntu" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/666
<WebMaven> pretty soon we'll have #123456
<WebMaven> only about 22k more bugs to go.
<Lutin> jdong: yeah, definitely that bug was evil ;)
<jdong> :)
<Fujitsu> WebMaven: #111367 is one of the latest, so it's a lot less than that to go.
<WebMaven> 12k, then.
<WebMaven> Well folks, I am signing off. Thank you all for being patient in explaining why what I wanted is not reasonable. ;-)
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: There's a bug somewhere in the last uploader thing. It says plotdrop was last touched by Riddell, which is wrong.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: you sure/
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: he sponsored my upload
<Fujitsu> Ah, that might do it.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: it's ok
<Fujitsu> You're listed in the Changed-By field, though.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: it _was_ last touched by ridell
<LaserJock> hmm
<nixternal> MOTU peeps! my first Gutsy merge is awaiting you at bug 111370
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111370 in xgalaga "[Gutsy MoM]  Merge xgalaga_2.0.34-42ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111370
<nixternal> now merge it and make me happy!
<LaserJock> but I'd think if I was Changed-By then it'd me that'd be lists as 'last touched by"
<nixternal> hola LaserJock!
<Fujitsu> Oops, there is no Changed-By. I was looking at the wrong LP field.
<LaserJock> nixternal: hola me amigo
<Fujitsu> I looked at the portlet, didn't see a Riddell, but did see a LaserJock. Oops.
<TheMuso> Well I have determined that Internode's mirror is not fast enough for gutsy development.
<TheMuso> Not synced fast enough even.
<imbrandon> MoM is running now ?
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Dad is. :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: doesn't look like it to me
<TheMuso> Me neither.
<imbrandon> hola LaserJock and TheMuso
<TheMuso> Heya imbrandon .
<ScottK> Good evening everyone....
* ScottK is in the 6th hour of a 5 hour phone conference.
<imbrandon> ello ScottK
<TheMuso> ScottK: Oh fun.
<LaserJock> ScottK: what?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you going to Seville?
<ScottK> LaserJock: Just saying hello.
<LaserJock> a 6hr phone conference, that's insane
* LaserJock hates phones
<imbrandon> LaserJock: no :(
<ScottK> Well it's better than 6 hours on a plane to Californica, sleep in a hotel, sit in a conference room for 6 hours, go back to the hotel and then another 6 hours in a plan (or worse yet, no hotel and redeye).
<ScottK> err California.
<swj> will pidgin make into feisty once released?
<ScottK> No
<swj> thanks
<ScottK> swj: New packages go into the developmental release (Gutsy now).
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4962 ? It's a chroot utility (jailki9t) that builds fine in pbuilder-gutsy, and lintian + linda return no errors (Just a couple I: about a minus sign being used instead of a hyphen in the man pages)
<superm1> imbrandon, could you possibly do a short revu?  http://revu.tauware.de./details.py?upid=4910
<imbrandon> ugh
<imbrandon> apache2 broke
<LaserJock> I sure wish MoM was up and running, I liked the graphs and nifty lists:-)
<ScottK> ryanakca: Are you shipping the debian dir in your orig.tar.gz?
<ryanakca> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> Is it meant to be a debian native package?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Use dad for the time being. :p
<TheMuso> oh graphs
<jdong> superm1: I get brandon first!
<TheMuso> right
<superm1> lol jdong .  come on...... :)
<ScottK> ryanakca: Unless it's a native app, that's discouraged.
<jdong> NO. MY imbrandon :)
<TheMuso> I'll be available to do some in a sec, as soon as I get these few packages uploaded.
<ryanakca> meant to be that way? well the guy packaged it for the apps site, and http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=268254 ... but it never went past that
<ubotu> Debian bug 268254 in wnpp "ITP: jailkit - chroot jail utilities" [Unknown,Open]  
<ryanakca> (aka, he's packaged it, and kept it up to date, and you can get a .deb off the project's site, but he hasn't gotten it uploaded to debian)
<ryanakca> ScottK: scrap the original debian/ and start from scratch?
<LaserJock> you don't need to start from scratch
<ScottK> ryanakca: At this point you ship a non-native version number with a debian dir in orig.tar.gz.
<ScottK> ryanakca: Not necessarily.
<LaserJock> but if there's no real reason for a native package you should remove or move it
<ryanakca> non-native version number?
<ScottK> ryanakca: about the debian dir, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ
<ScottK> Native packages don't have the epoch.
<ScottK> IIRC
<ryanakca> kk
<ScottK> Bottom line is it's your call, but it looks like maybe it should be a native package.
<ScottK> It's got no utility outside Debian packaged distros...
<ryanakca> ok. so, unless it's a native app, it shouldn't have a debian/ . But, it looks like it should be a native package?
<ryanakca> native package = ?
<ScottK> I think look in the Debian New Maintainer's guide.
<ryanakca> ah
<ryanakca> ScottK: what do you mean it has no use outside Debian packaged distros?
<ryanakca> It's used to create chroots...
<ryanakca> http://olivier.sessink.nl/jailkit/
* ScottK was guessing.  If not, never mind.
<persia> How does one update comments in DaD?  I'd like to add a bug number for one of my uploads for which a merge already has a bug.
<persia> ryanakca: Generally native packages are not developed outside Debian.  If there is an upstream, it shouldn't be native.
<ryanakca> ScottK: kk, I'll repack it
<TheMuso> Adri2000: Your grab-merge script doesn't create/download the scripts for building the source package with the appropriate version number.
<ryanakca> is the wiki down?
<ryanakca> MOTU/FAQ doesn't want to load...
<Adri2000> TheMuso: with which package for example?
<ryanakca> And, for REVU people. w.u.c/MOTU/Packages/REVU says 'please use [WWW]  The revu-Development-Center for feature requests and bug reports.' Click on the link, you go to http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi , and you get a 403
<TheMuso> Adri2000: I am working on my distcc merge, and there is no merge-* scripts.
<TheMuso> MoM usually includes merge-genchanges and merge-buildpackage
<Adri2000> TheMuso: ah these scripts, yes sorry I removed them, because I have never used them :p I can re-add the few missing lines
<TheMuso> Righto.
<TheMuso> Adri2000: Thanks. Saves a bit of time.
<bddebian> Goddamnit, I know I submitted that bug for rate-engine to Debian
* ajmitch smites bddebian 
<Adri2000> TheMuso: done
<TheMuso> Adri2000: Thanks again.
<bddebian> ajmitch: Now what did I do? :-)
<ryanakca> ScottK: ok. I've renamed it to jailkit_2.3repacked1.orig.tar.gz (and it doesn't have a debian/). How do I tell debuild to use the new orig.tar.gz instead of the old one?
<TheMuso> looks like LP has some problems
<ajmitch> never
<jdong> yeah I mean white and green?
<jdong> oh.. you mean technical problems
<persia> TheMuso: Retry a few times.  I'm having occasional pages load.
<TheMuso> I am getting internal server error, for only one package.
<TheMuso> nope its all good now
<superm1> TheMuso, will you be able to revu my package, or a few more in line yet ahead of me/
<LaserJock> hmm, so somebody in my LUG sent an email today about how Ubuntu was totally not newbie friendly
<ajmitch> LaserJock: quite right, it's not
<ajmitch> neither is windows
<LaserJock> his objection was that there were no GUI system configuration tools
<LaserJock> I was offering to get a bunch of Feisty cds in Seville for the LUG and he thought it was a bad idea :/
* ajmitch agrees
<ajmitch> there are some areas where ubuntu is definitely lacking in management tools
<LaserJock> yeah, but I would think there would be less configuration that needed to be done
<TheMuso> soyuz must be choking or something... I'm awaiting two acceptance emails.
<LaserJock> at least that's how I find it
<TheMuso> superm1: I have to do a few house chores first, then I might do some reviewing of merges.
<superm1> K TheMuso, thx
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it depends on what area
<ajmitch> some of the fedora tools (system-config-*) really are quite useful
* bddebian re-submits patches for rate-engine to Debian
* ryanakca agrees with ajmitch 
<LaserJock> so it seems this guy suggests PCLinuxOS
<keescook> Lutin, Adri2000: \o/   (yay DaD!)
<ryanakca> well, on the Fedora tools (system-config-*)
<LaserJock> I've been playing around with openSUSE a little and some of the Yast tools are pretty nice
<imbrandon> yast slow
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> its nice but slow
<LaserJock> package management is rough
<LaserJock> but there's some interesting things in there
<imbrandon> hrm server upgraded to fiesty, not too many hickups
<imbrandon> had to reinstall libapache2-*
<imbrandon> but all else went well, even updated OpenFire, hrm that software really should be packaged
<LaserJock> has Ubuntu's emphasis on new users dissuaded devs from developing system config tools?
<imbrandon> not really, kubuntu has guidance
<imbrandon> and a whole new systemsettings appart from KDE
<imbrandon> :)
<jdong> burn :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no, I've been writing some :)
<ajmitch> Toadstool: "Update to some CVS snapshot"? :)
<ScottK> ryanakca: Did you get your problem sorted out?
<ScottK> imbrandon: Guidance is an official KDE app now.
<imbrandon> ScottK: yea but only JUST now
<imbrandon> kubuntu has been using it 2+ releases
<imbrandon> :)
* ScottK is a revisionist.
<imbrandon> guidance is the first non c++ app in kde svn too 
<ScottK> Yes.
* ScottK read all about it in LWN.
<ScottK> Go Python.
* TheMuso returns
<persia> Anyone familiar with GLU C++ code?
<ryanakca> ScottK: I've renamed it to jailkit_2.3repacked1.orig.tar.gz (and it doesn't have a debian/). How do I tell debuild to use the new orig.tar.gz instead of the old one?
<TheMuso> ryanakca: Is there a reason why you have repacked1 in the version field of the tarball?
<TheMuso> c
<ryanakca> TheMuso: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ see Upstream already provided a debian-dir in the orig.tar.gz, what now?
<TheMuso> ryanakca: I assume you've asked upstream?
<plugwash> it says you may have to repack but not that you always have to.
<plugwash> afaict the only reasons to repack would be licensing issues or a file that somehow caused problems so early in the build process you couldn't remove it from the clean target (which is the standard debian way of dealing with unwanted upstream files that don't suffer license problems)
<ryanakca> TheMuso: no.
<TheMuso> ryanakca: Well as the FAQ says, ask them to kindly remove it.
<ryanakca> plugwash: well, the upsteam debian/ works fine.
<ryanakca> TheMuso: kk
<ryanakca> TheMuso: and then I just put it back it... seems kindof like a waste of energy...
<ryanakca> oh well.
<ryanakca> I'll email him
<TheMuso> ryanakca: The debian dir you are to create for ubuntu is likely going to be a lot cleaner. The Ubuntu debian dir will also be in the .diff.gz.
<ryanakca> TheMuso: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/jailkit-0704292120/jailkit-2.3/debian/ well, I was thinking of just copy pasting. Lintian doesn't give any errors, nor does linda. And it builds without errors in pbuilder. kk
<persia> ryanakca: There are a few packages in the repository that start with the upstream Debian dir, and only carry local changes in diff.gz.  This is not recommended by policy, but saves repacking the tarball.  You'll want to make sure to remove all upstream entries in Debian/changelog, and use a proper <upstream-version>-<revision> version in your changelog entry, but it should work.  Still a good idea to speak to upstream.
* plugwash thinks thats a perfectly sensible approach
<ryanakca> persia: kk
<ryanakca> will do
<plugwash> i guess it could cause some issues with the changelog when updating the package but nothing too hard to handle
<ryanakca> Thanks :)
<plugwash> personally i think persuading upstream to remove a usefull feature from thier source is a mean thing to do
<ryanakca> persia: do I leave him as XBCS-Original-Maintainer?
<ryanakca> yeah
<ryanakca> XSBC-
<persia> ryanakca: I only use that for Debian maintainers, as they asked for it.  For a package not in Debian, check with Upstream to see whether they want to receive Ubuntu bugs directly.  Also, there shouldn't be a difference between XSBC-foo and XBCS-foo.
<ryanakca> persia: ah, so the order of letters in XSCB doesn't matter?
<persia> plugwash: The changelog is usually the problem.  Some upstreams use Debian/changelog instead of Changelog, which gets very confusing when trying to separate upstream changes from packaing changes, and which versions were released.  Also, some upstreams don't worry about policy much.
<persia> ryanakca: It shouldn't (but use XSBC-, because everyone does).
<ryanakca> kk
<ryanakca> thanks
* ryanakca heads to bed
* plugwash wonders if seding DEBIAN/control between debhelper generating it and dpkg-deb assembling the package breaks any policies
* ScottK waves goodnight to ryanakca...
<plugwash> persia yeah i agree upstreams shouldn't be using the debian/changelog as thier main changelog
* aoirthoir stretches.
<superm1> imbrandon, ping?
<imbrandon> superm1: pong
<superm1> imbrandon, i've got the script finished up and functional on pegasus
<superm1> so i wanted to see how this interaction with the buildd's happened now
<superm1> its in /var/cache/mythbuntu_build/weekly_fixes_branch_build.sh 
<superm1> resultant source packages are put into /var/cache/mythbuntu_build/builds/pool/feisty/weekly ATM
<imbrandon> ok i am busy for the next 2 or 3 hours, but i'll add iot to my list to check out here in a few
<superm1> k
<imbrandon> i have to be at work in 3 hours and will have time to poke it then
<nixternal> is there anything funky I need to do on my 64bit box to test build 64bit packages?
<persia> nixternal: As long as you have a 64-bit kernel, and 64-bit libraries, you're all set.  If you have 32-bit stuff, you probably want to use some sort of virtualization environment.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: do you have a ubuntu server disc laying around? or image?
<imbrandon> yea why?
<joejaxx> can you pastebin me the contents of files in /preseed/?
<joejaxx> contents of the files in /preseed/
<imbrandon> hrm i dont seem to have one arround, thought i did
<imbrandon> ubuntu on dells ( officialy now ) woot
<ajmitch> imbrandon: dell PR out yet?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: it alright :) thanks for looking
<ScottK> But are they going to ship it with Automatix?
<ScottK> It had to be asked.
<joejaxx> ScottK: :P
<ajmitch> ScottK: go away
* ScottK goes back to doing annoying paperwork....
<imbrandon> ajmitch: no just the canonical support emplyees blogs
<nixternal> ya, kind of odd a blog would try and be the announcement, but nothing via feedburner on it yet
<nixternal> I just found out you can get SLED on their N series laptops, I didn't know that until the teachers were pimping them at school today
<persia> Will Ubuntu automatically drop packages dropped in Debian, or should a removal bug be filed?
<ajmitch> I wonder if he'll get in trouble for posting it before dell does
<nixternal> ajmitch: I wondered the same
<nixternal> then again, I wonder how much noise Dell is really going to make with it outside of the community
<nixternal> I didn't realise they already sold Linux laptops
<nixternal> the closest thing I got with the N series was no OS, but they seem to charge more for hardware then
<nixternal> Compaq/HP was the only company to accept the fact I denied the EULA and give me money back for not using Vista
<jmg> nixternal: michael dell rolls feisty
<nixternal> Michael Dell also rolls 10 other machines loaded with bloatware :)
<nixternal> and one with Vista which is even worse ;p
<nixternal> hopefully Mr. Dell will fix his company and make them #1 in hardware sales and support again
<jmg> nixternal: none of them use vista
<jmg> that i saw
<nixternal> jmg: sure there is, his big crazy box is Vista
<jmg> i liked what gartner said about dell reactivating xp sales
<nixternal> he runs Vista Ultimate on his XPS 710
<jdong> I'll consider Dell again once my HS sysadm buddies tell me they're NOT filling out 2 HDD RMA's per week on 1000 PC's....
<nixternal> jmg: wow, they upgraded Michael Dell's page, he runs Vista on everything now
<jmg> "this is weird, normally you see consumers clamoring for the latest and greatest"
<nixternal> all but that one M90 laptop
<jmg> hmm... could that mean... vista sucks hard?
<nixternal> and he had more machines the last time I looked as well
<jmg> url?
<nixternal> http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/biographies/en/msd_computers?c=us&l=en&s=corp
<jmg> it seems he plays a lot of games
<jmg> they should list what games he plays
<nixternal> well, he needs to stop and pick dell up out of the hole the last idiot created
<nixternal> Sims :)
<nixternal> all of that power, and he plays the sims..haha
<nixternal> now that would be funny
<jmg> or solitaire
<nixternal> hahahaha
<jmg> actually i think they are games on his desktop, i just dont know what 
<jmg> he has two laptops, one for gaming and one for work
<persia> Life is good.
<persia> -ECHANNEL
* ajmitch wonders where his bug got to 
* nixternal squashed it with a swatter
<ajmitch> nixternal: thanks, but I'd prefer an archive admin do it
<nixternal> orly
* nixternal grabs 2 bug traps and sets them up
* RAOF looks at the DaD page and wonders whether the new democracyplayer will play any better with python 2.5
<nixternal> RAOF: yes :)
<nixternal> at least I have been running it, the latest here and it seems pretty good
<nixternal> it actually worked right from the get go
<RAOF> You mean I won't have to add stupid LD_LIBRARY_PATH wrappers around it?  Awesome.
<nixternal> I didn't add them
* RAOF does the happy dance.
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> but who knows what will happen between now and when it is your turn ;)
<jdong> RAOF: poke me if you ever get democracyplayer working right
<jdong> backports camp is whining about it too
<RAOF> jdong: The infuriating thing is, the Feisty version works for me!
<RAOF> *Perfectly*
<jdong> heh
<RAOF> Feel free to backport the current Feisty version.  It'll work on amd64, at least :)
<jdong> RAOF: ok I'll quote you and approve the backport kthxbye :D
<jdong> lol
<RAOF> nixternal: So you downloaded the 0.9.5.3 version from upstream?
<RAOF> nixternal: (getdemocracy.org, not debian)?
<nixternal> RAOF: yes, but this is built on Slackware
<nixternal> Python 2.5
<RAOF> Oh.  Right.
<RAOF> They probably don't have a high enough python-dbus version to trigger some of the bugs :P
<nixternal> it is the latest, I compiled it out of boredom on Sunday
<nixternal> err, that would be yesterday
<nixternal> man, I love Slackware, but I am sorry, I can't deal with all of the work anymore
<nixternal> I could package Python 2.5 before it tests, packages, builds, makes, installs, and blows up on Slackware
<RAOF> Hm.  I *tried* upstream's 0.9.5.3 when I was packaging, and it didn't seem to help very much. :(
* RAOF has never tried Slackware.
<nixternal> umm, where is the power down in Ubuntu?
<ajmitch> nixternal: ?
<nixternal> I can logout, hibernate, lock screen, and switch user, but I cannot power off, or reboot for that matter
<ajmitch> funny
<ajmitch> usually it shows there
<nixternal> OK, so it is something goofy here
* ajmitch rages
<nixternal> well, I wonder if that is going to happen with every ShipIt CD?
<ajmitch> my sync request still isn't appearing
<nixternal> I just received the LoCo Feisty ShipIts, and installed Ubuntu 64
* mneptok seeks a voluntictim
* RAOF admires the word "voluntictim"
<persia> mneptok: For what?
<ajmitch> hey mneptok 
<mneptok> persia: maintenance of a new package.
<ajmitch> oh dear
<mneptok> heya ajmitch 
<mneptok> yeah, exactly. "oh dear."
<ajmitch> so what are you seeking fresh blood for?
<persia> mneptok: Erm.  I'm not around constantly enough to do a good job.  Sorry.
<mneptok> dead-simple Java app
<RAOF> Yeah, what package?  I may be able to help, if it's... not java :)
<ajmitch> eww
* ajmitch scurries off
* mneptok sits by his (now) deserted lamp-post
<persia> Could anyone point me to a good GTK1.2 -> GTK2.0 migration guide?
<ajmitch> mneptok: aw
<ajmitch> mneptok: how simple is it, and what is it? :)
<ajmitch> mneptok: general practice is to file a bug, tagged with needs-packaging
<ajmitch> & hope that someone picks it up in the next 2 years
<ajmitch> since there are already a few hundred bugs filed like that
<TheMuso> Can one look at the build queue for an arch?
<ajmitch> yes
<mneptok> ajmitch: yeah, there's such a backlog that if someone doesn't jump, i won't burden LP. in 5 years i may have a clue about Debian packaging. or not care.
<TheMuso> Whats the URL?
<ajmitch> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/i386/+builds
<mneptok> ajmitch: http://jirc.hick.org
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<ajmitch> mneptok: oh dear, looks worrying
<mneptok> ajmitch: the dist dir could be dropped in place. then you just need a .desktop and >=sun-java5-jre
<mneptok> [mneptok@ra]  mneptok :: ls /usr/local/share/jIRCii 
<mneptok> docs  extra  jerk.jar  license.txt  readme.txt  whatsnew.txt
<mneptok> works like a charm
<ajmitch> mneptok: the license (artistic) is sufficiently screwy
<mneptok> 00:47 <@mneptok> `butane: i need to get off my ass and get a .deb built for the Ubuntu repos.
<mneptok> 00:47 < `butane> mneptok: yes :)
* ajmitch doesn't know what version of the license it may use
<mneptok> he's happy to have us do whatever we please.
* ajmitch probably won't have time to make a package, anyway
<mneptok> no worries
<ajmitch> way too much else on my plate right now :)
<ajmitch> like uds in a few days
<mneptok> the "ictim" part of "voluntictim" tends to bring one's current responsibilities into much sharper focus.
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> ah, the hills are alive with speculation about dell
<ajmitch> just wonderful
<persia> ajmitch: You don't approve?
<mneptok> ajmitch: you should see EtienneG hand-wringing over a MOTU app ;)
<ajmitch> mneptok: when is he going to do that?
<mneptok> "these guys do this all day. they have years of experience. i'm just some new guy."
<ajmitch> persia: it could increase the community support requirements a fair bit
<ajmitch> mneptok: hah!
<mneptok> ajmitch: 'zackly
<ajmitch> most of us *can't* do it all day
<ajmitch> and few of us have years of experience
<mneptok> ajmitch: he may have to be the first to have MOTU-ship thrust upon him
<ajmitch> he'll have to fight his way past the evil motu council
<mneptok> maybe in Seville. grab him and throw him in the pool.
<persia> ajmitch: "could"?  I would expect it to, but I would also expect that it would result in more input on bugs, which is sometimes a good thing.
<lifeless> ajmitch: you mean if dell ship ubuntu ?
<mneptok> when he gets out, raging, welcome him aboard >:)
<ajmitch> lifeless: yeah
<ajmitch> we're already drowning
<lifeless> ajmitch: it will only make a difference if end users that current buy dell, and stick to windows, start buying and choosing ubuntu.
<mneptok> persia: input on bugs is a signal-to-noise endeavor. sadly, Dell desktop users tend to use low-wattage broadcasting.
<lifeless> ajmitch: I think that if dell start shipping ubuntu we'll see only a few new users.
<ajmitch> mneptok: a useful analogy
<ajmitch> lifeless: we'll see how it goes - I don't think many will go out of their way to get ubuntu
* mneptok over-generalizes himself into inanity
<persia> mneptok: perhaps.
<sharms> I was attempting to do a merge request for gajim, but it appears the dependencies dont work right in my builder.  I am a bit rusty, do I fix the depends just for python 2.5 or should I keep 2.4 in also?
* ajmitch bought stuff from dell recently :)
<mneptok> stock?
* persia points at ajmitch as a high-wattage dell user
<ajmitch> 20" lcd monitor
<ajmitch> fairly cheap at the time
<mneptok> persia: nah, ajmitch is too erratically violent to be a good bug reporter ;)
<lifeless> ajmitch: I think the main consequence of dell shipping ubuntu is that they will be committing to good hardware support and currently users that buy and wipe windows will be able to just buy.
<ajmitch> mneptok: when have I ever hurt you? :)
<ajmitch> lifeless: that, I will welcome
<mneptok> ajmitch: every night as i fall asleep alone
<ajmitch> you almost make me feel sorry for you
<mneptok> then you remember, my suferring is like nectar.
<mneptok> suffering, too
<mneptok> bleh. elf needs nicotine.
* persia misses bugmail
<crimsun> FWIW, a couple Dell engineers have been commenting on audio bugs
<crimsun> not that that's any indication, but I certainly didn't see that during previous cycles
<jdong> crimsun: I can tell you are saying that with an enthusiastic smile on your face
<jdong> *sounds* great though :)
<crimsun> the pun is murderous.
<jdong> haha
<crimsun> mm, gutsy.
<crimsun> evolution-mail-CRITICAL **: mail_tool_uri_to_folder: assertion `uri != NULL' failed    Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<jdong> crimsun: maybe it's a mutation in its memory pool.
<jdong> ok, ok, I promise, I'll stop :D
<ajmitch> crimsun: does that mean we can murder someone making puns like that?
<crimsun> I like the deliberate ambiguity.  :)
<boss-bcp> ajmitch: "It is not necessary to specify packages that are in build-essential, especially with tight versioning like this." -> I followed the Debian New Package Maintainer's Guide for Build-Depends. How would you do it otherwise? Would you leave build-essential out entirely?
<persia> boss-bcp: If a package is depended on by build-essential, you don't need to have it in build-depends.  All buildds have build-essential installed already.
<boss-bcp> ajmitch: Also, CUPS keeps all those symlinks in /usr/lib/cups/backend. If that changes, then CUPS will likely be Kerberized at that point. Have you tested libpam-cups out or were you commenting based on what the postinst seems to do?
<boss-bcp> persia: Okay, I will make the change accordingly.
<boss-bcp> persia: Have you taken a look at libpam-cups? ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4936 )
<boss-bcp> persia: If not, how would you do the postinst to account for both ipp and smb?
<ajmitch> boss-bcp: they may be symlinks for you, but here they're not
<ajmitch> the only symlink is smb
* ajmitch knows that someone worked on kerberizing cups last year
<persia> boss-bcp: I haven't.  My apologies, I'm not very familiar with ipp or smb.  You'd do better to ask someone else.
<boss-bcp> ajmitch: As part of the Google Summer of Code, yes. I don't think it materialized.
<ajmitch> I'll ask him if I see him online today
<boss-bcp> ajmitch: Until then, libpam-cups is a temporary fix.
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> and if two packages don't cooperate with alternatives, you use dpkg-divert
<boss-bcp> Okay, I'll look into it. Thanks.
<patoh> Hello, I am looking for a place to obtain the patch/s that ubuntu applies agenst firefox to get the gnome priniting dialog rather than the xul one. The large .diff on launchpad for firefox is of very little help, can anyone point me to a place where I can get the patch/s that you guys apply.
<imbrandon> patoh, might start at http://patches.ubuntu.com/
<gnomefreak> patoh: apt-get source firefox than go into debian/patches
<patoh> gnomefreak: would require ubuntu installed
<patoh> thanks imbrandon I will look into it :)
<gnomefreak> yeah it would and seeing as this is a ubuntu channel the assumption would be you are running ubuntu ;)
<persia> gnomefreak: The directory doesn't exist in any case
<gnomefreak> persia: sure it does
<gnomefreak> persia: has been packaging it
<gnomefreak> i have been even
<patoh> no firefox directory in http://patches.ubuntu.com/f/ =/
<persia> gnomefreak: Something must be odd about my config then.  Hrm.
<patoh> unless they are debian patches
<gnomefreak> persia: are you looking in the source?
<persia> gnomefreak: I'm in .../firefox-2.0.0.3+15/ after `apt-get source firefox`
<patoh> can anyone point me to where debian keep their patches as they don't seem to be ubuntu patches but rather ones merged from debian.
<crimsun> err...
<crimsun> utter parse error
<gnomefreak> /home/gnomefreak/firefox_build/firefox2.0.0.x/ubuntu-2.0.0.x/debian/patches
<persia> gnomefreak: Strange.  No worries: it's probably something wrong locally.
<gnomefreak> persia: you may be before the new patching (cant think of word atm)
<gnomefreak> persia: we have changes the way patches work in mozilla apps along with nss and nspr and a bunch of other things (you will see most of this in gutsy) i do believe we released the last release for feisty with new patching system
<persia> gnomefreak: Probably.  I checked on a machine which has seen various updates from various sources recently in an attempt to understand differences between various packages :)
<persia> Is a build-dependency on x-dev considered a bug?
<crimsun> at this point, a minor one, yes, but one nonetheless
<crimsun> err, sorry
<crimsun> misparse
<crimsun> I meant xlibs-dev
<persia> crimsun: So, if I'm porting a package from wx2.4 to wx2.6, I should probably fix that too?
<persia> crimsun: Ah, no, this is x-dev.
<crimsun> err, it shouldn't list x-dev at all, since libwxgtk2.6-dev covers it
<persia> crimsun: Right.  I'll fix it then.  It's one of those packages used by 27 people, which doesn't get as much attention as it might.  Thanks.
<gnomefreak> i read something (i think on motu membership) that i had to have my key signed by a devel. is that motu devel/uploaders or core-devel?
<joejaxx> i think motu
<persia> Does LP enforce that now?
<crimsun> gnomefreak: core-dev definitely has that requirement; MOTU should, too (and does IIRC)
<crimsun> gnomefreak: aren't you still in the Triangle, NC area?
<gnomefreak> yeah
<crimsun> I'm only ~70 mi east of you
<crimsun> s/east/west/
<gnomefreak> yep give or take but i wasnt sure if it was motu signing it or core devels signing it
<crimsun> it's too early in the morning :-)
<gnomefreak> lol
<gnomefreak> i havent slept yet
<crimsun> well, theoretically any dev in the strong set suffices
<crimsun> if you can make it to a TriLUG meeting, nearly all of us are in the strong set
<gnomefreak> oh ok. by the look of things atm july/august would be next one i can get to
<crimsun> hmm.  I think I'll be flying out of RDU in a couple weeks if that's more convenient.
<gnomefreak> i know atm im tied up for the next 3 weeks 
<gnomefreak> well it will be a while before i can apply for motu anyway :(
<gnomefreak> as much as ive been doing none of it is on my lp page
<gnomefreak> but looks like iceape will be mostly mine
<joejaxx> :)
<crimsun> that's a significant undertaking :-)
<joejaxx> gnomefreak: ftw! :)
<Fujitsu> crimsun: I only joined the strong set three weeks ago. It's not a requirement, it appears.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: just a flip of the LP switch, so to speak?
<Fujitsu> That's right.
<Fujitsu> Now, I must be off to TAFE.
<gnomefreak> i hope iceape works out its been hell so far :(
<Fujitsu> Hopefully this machine will boot fine since the Gutsification.
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Mozilla stuff is hell. Sorry.
<joejaxx> i have no idea how i am going to get mine signed
<gnomefreak> fuits getting better
<joejaxx> there is not anyone near me
<jussi01> can some one point me to the channel where the know all about the leagal stuff for ubuntu?
<gnomefreak> joejaxx: where are you?
<joejaxx> new jersey
<gnomefreak> ha
<gnomefreak> damn
<joejaxx> yeah
<crimsun> ah, you just missed ogmaciel, who moved down from NJ to NC
<gnomefreak> NY is closest people i know near there
* gnomefreak was borna nd raised in NJ
<crimsun> hmm, isn't there an NJ locoteam?
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> yeap
<crimsun> /someone/ in it has to be in the strong set
<gnomefreak> yes but im not sure it ever took off
<persia> joejaxx: If the strong set is all you need, try https://biglumber.com/x/web?qs=New+Jersey.  Developers may be a bit harder.
<gnomefreak> hmmmmm maybe i should stop him from uploading ffox :(
<joejaxx> persia: oh ok thanks
<joejaxx> the birds are chirping and it is 4am
* gnomefreak tired of screwing with this. ill work on it later 
<joejaxx> gnomefreak: iceape troubles again? :(
<gnomefreak> no firefox-trunk
<ranf> hi
<joejaxx> hello
<gnomefreak> hi
<gnomefreak> i was hoping to have it in my repo yesterday but they changed something upstream and i think that is what is causing it but when i get up later ill play with it more
<joejaxx> gnomefreak: oh ok 
<gnomefreak> ok im goin gto try and get sleep night
<joejaxx> alright
<joejaxx> Goodnight gnomefreak 
<persia> Could someone who knows C++ better than I please explain what x means in http://pastebin.us/30006?  I don't understand the scope or type for this.
<Hobbsee> persia: looks like a temporary variable, inside a function
* Jucato guesses x is an object of type wxString...
<Hobbsee> er, a class
<dholbach> good morning
<jsgotangco> hello
<Jucato> local variable in GetTabMsg?
<Hobbsee> a class, which gets returned
<Jucato> ooh hi jsgotangco :)
<persia> Hobbsee: so if I want to use a fancy unicode-aware constructor, I should do something like wxString x = <constructor>?
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach 
<joejaxx> good morning dholbach 
<dholbach> heya Hobbsee
<dholbach> hey joejaxx
<Hobbsee> persia: no idea.  i usually use foo = class(bar)
<Hobbsee> or whatever
<ajmitch> hey dholbach 
<persia> Hobbsee: Thanks.  I'll try that.
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<dholbach> hey slomo
<ajmitch> hm, playing a game, and suddenly 1 monitor claims it's out of range
<ajmitch> now that is strange
* ajmitch may need to stop using this monitor :(
<jekil> hello
<Hobbsee> hi jekil 
<TheMuso> Evening folks.
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<dholbach> TheMuso: there are some merges/updates left on the a11y front - are you going to take care of them?
<TheMuso> dholbach: Sure. Is there a list anywhere?
<dholbach> orca is done
<dholbach> there's a new lsr
<dholbach> i did accerciser too
<TheMuso> Thats done.
<dholbach> nice
<TheMuso> I did speech-dispatcher today also, and am waiting for an update to espeak which I will do later this wee.
<TheMuso> week
<dholbach> ok, no gnome/a11y updates left then
<dholbach> maybe we can look at the accessibility/+packagebugs page for checking if there are merges to do
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> I'll have a look in a bit.
<dholbach> thanks a lot
<TheMuso> np
<TheMuso> imbrandon: When are we likely to have a gutsy pbuilder for ubuntuwire machines, particularly sparky?
<geser> aurora has already one
<TheMuso> Right. Well since thats i386, I don't need it. :)
<ajmitch> hi TheMuso 
<TheMuso> Hey ajmitch.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Do you have admin on sparky? I'm wondering if you would be so kind as to get a gutsy pbuilder set up? There is no hurry.
<ajmitch> yeah I could
<TheMuso> As I said. No hurry, just want to find out more about why a package FTBFS only on sparc.
<TheMuso> Looked at the log, and its something to do with headers, but I need to check for myself independantly.
<ajmitch> not linux-libc-dev stuff still?
<TheMuso> DOn't know.
<ajmitch> sparc buildds are a little slower, I suspect
<TheMuso> Thats why I want to have a look.
<TheMuso> Yeah probably.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, there should be one already, if nopt lemme make it now
<imbrandon> not*
<imbrandon> ajmitch, did you start already ? if not i will
<ajmitch> nope
<TheMuso> imbrandon: There isn't a script for it at least
<imbrandon> doing it now
<TheMuso> Ok thanks.
<TheMuso> brb
<TheMuso> back
<imbrandon> TheMuso, almost done, few more minutes ( sparky is kinda slow hehe )\
<TheMuso> imbrandon: No problem.
<geser> imbrandon: I'm just curious: why points intrepid (which should be ppc) to aurora?
<ajmitch> night all
<persia> night ajmitch
<geser> Lutin: about DaD: You are currently highlighting the debian revision. Is it possible to also highlight new upstream versions? That would be handy short before UVF
<imbrandon> geser, intrepid had somehardware problems i'm trying to fix and aruror just took its ip for the moment as a secondary one
<Lutin> geser: yep, that's planned ;). I can't do it though, as I don't know php
<geser> Lutin: who should I contact about the webpage? Adri2000?
<geser> I've an other suggestion: add the date when the page got generated
<shawarma> Is there really any point in pointing out that we've done the DebianMaintainerField dance in each and every package we change?
<Lutin> geser: yes, you can contact Adri2000 for the web stuff. we're adding what you said right now
<persia> shawarma: It's good to have it in the changelog, at least until everything is updated.  This makes it easier to see at a glance which packages are modified locally.
<shawarma> persia: You can see that from the version anyway.
<DktrKranz> Lutin, I discovered a little problem when grabbing kolab-webadmin
<Lutin> DktrKranz: yep ?
<DktrKranz> if I mind well, it only downloads REPORT file
<DktrKranz> it's not urgent, I already did the merge
<DktrKranz> (the debdiff, actually)
<Lutin> DktrKranz: you mean, it does not download any file ?
<DktrKranz> just REPORT file
<persia> shawarma: There's still heaps of packages unchanged.  Perhaps when the migration is complete, it won't be required anymore.
<Lutin> (anyways, packages whose name contains '-' are not processed correctly, fix commited but the packages haven't been updated)
<DktrKranz> nice to know
<imbrandon> TheMuso, gutsy pbuilder all ready to go on sparky
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Thanks.
<imbrandon> np
<shawarma> imbrandon: yay!
<imbrandon> btw for those of you still learning and that dont read p.d.o , Miriam put up a nice multi binary package howto for beginers 
<imbrandon> http://www.miriamruiz.es/weblog/?p=42
<DktrKranz> TheMuso, around?
<TheMuso> DktrKranz: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
<TheMuso> DktrKranz: Whats up?
<DktrKranz> have you got some time to sponsor a FTBFS fix?
<TheMuso> Sure.
<TheMuso> Bug number?
<Lutin> geser: around ?
<DktrKranz> bug #96339
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 96339 in phpgroupware "[UNMETDEPS]  phpgroupware has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96339
<TheMuso> DktrKranz: Why is it marked fix committed?
<DktrKranz> erm, \sh uploaded a previous version, I forgot to pass it to Confirmed...
<TheMuso> ah I see why
<TheMuso> O having a look now.
<shawarma> Lutin: What sort of bandwidth do you have to DaD?
<Lutin> shawarma: low
<shawarma> Lutin: Want a mirror?
<shawarma> I've got lots and lots of space and bandwidth.
<Lutin> shawarma: we're going to move to a new server hopefully soon :)
<persia> Lutin: How does one update the comments field?  There's a couple merges of mine for which there are bugs.
<shawarma> Lutin: Cool.
<Lutin> persia: edit the comment and press enter ?
<persia> Lutin: Ah.  I thought it was just display.  Thank you.
<Lutin> persia: np
<TheMuso> DktrKranz: Looks good. Did you test build your previous debdiff that has this problem?
<TheMuso> that caused even
<DktrKranz> yes, this time I checked :)
<DktrKranz> looks good to me, I've got a build log, if you want to see it
<DktrKranz> previous debdiff missed a comma
<TheMuso> DktrKranz: I saw that, but did you test build it?
<DktrKranz> do you mean the new debdiff? yes, I did
<TheMuso> never mind, uploading.
<DktrKranz> I did both
<TheMuso> Ok.
<TheMuso> uploaded.
<DktrKranz> thanks
<jussi01> Could someone tell me if we can accept programs where "all rights reserved" comes after the copyright? what is the stance on this?
<TheMuso> np
<persia> TheMuso: Are you especially attached to nethack?  I'd be happy to process that (having touched that source before).
<TheMuso> Pumpernickel: No I'm not. Go ahead.
<TheMuso> sorry, persia ^^
<TheMuso> slip of the finger.
<persia> TheMuso: No worries: I've been called stranger foodstuffs :)
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> persia: Let me know when you're done, and I'll review it.
<jussi01> lol
* Pumpernickel pokes TheMuso 
<TheMuso> Pumpernickel: Sorry, accidentally tab-completed your nick instead of another.
* Hobbsee pokes TheMuso too
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> heya :)
<shawarma> Is Debian doing SSP by default, too?
<persia> TheMuso: 111477
<TheMuso> bug 111477
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111477 in nethack "Please merge nethack 3.4.3-10.1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111477
<persia> TheMuso: If you have time now, feel free to grab any of my others
<TheMuso> persia: Ok I'll see how I go.
<persia> The new upstream (and Debian) gmsh compiles under feisty, but not under gutsy.  The problem appears to be with the GLU headers.  Could anyone suggest how I might track that down (or does anyone know about a GLU issue such that I shouldn't try)?
<shawarma> persia: GLU is the same in feisty and gutsy (so far).
<persia> shawarma: That's why I'm confused.
* Hobbsee wonders about GLU headers?
<TheMuso> persia: Pbuilder up to date
<Hobbsee> persia: i wonder if all the libc*-dev stuff got fixed...
<persia> TheMuso: I don't use pbuilder, but the gutsy environment is up to date (about an hour old, actually).
<TheMuso> Ok.
<persia> Hobbsee: Perhaps.  I thought that was all because of dash vs. bash though.
<TheMuso> persia: What do you use?
<Hobbsee> chroot, probably
<persia> TheMuso: depending on my mood, vmware or hardware.  Usually more vmware earlier in the cycle, and more hardware later.
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> I would advise to use something like pbuilder for test building however.
<persia> TheMuso: I thought the main advantage there was to make sure that there were sufficient build-depends.  Are there other advantages?  (same for schroot or the like)
<Kmos> persia: to see if patches are applied
<persia> Kmos: I don't understand.
<Kmos> with pbuilder you can see if patches for the package are correctly applied
<luisbg> anyone knows where I can find some wiki ubuntu admins?
<persia> Kmos: Ah.  I typically create .orig.tar.gz, .diff.gz, and .dsc, copy them to a fresh snapshot, and use dpkg-source -x and debuild to check.  Perhaps more manual, but it does find at telling me what worked.
<Kmos> :))
<Kmos> it's another way
<Fujitsu> pbuilder-somerelease build something.dsc
<Fujitsu> Much easier.
<TheMuso> persia: pbuilder is a lot quicker.
<persia> OK.  I'm convinced.  When I've finished my wx2.4 project, I'll go investigate scripted build environments again.
<TheMuso> um... how is requestsync called again? So long since I used it, I have forgotten.
<TheMuso> The second argument particularly.
<dabaR> luisbg: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wiki
<Fujitsu> requestsync somepackage gutsy
<TheMuso> ah thats right.
<siretart> is the launchpad mail buginterface down or just slow?
<persia> siretart: Down (or at least no mail for > 12 hours)
<siretart> persia: k. thanks
<Fujitsu> Oh, good. I was hoping it wasn't my mail being stupid.
<persia> There's no updates in #ubuntu-bugs either
<Fujitsu> That uses the bugmail.
<persia> Earlier LP was having internal errors, and bugmail stopped around then.  I expect it is being worked on, but there are still issues.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: do you have 2 minutes ?
<Fujitsu> Lutin: Sure.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: what was exactly the issue concerning DaD and wxmaxima ? I'm not sure I understood your mail correctly
<Fujitsu> Lutin: The orig.tar.gz of wxmaxima in Ubuntu and Debian differ, although they have the same name.
<Fujitsu> This causes dpkg-source to fail when debdiffing, so things go very wrong.
<Fujitsu> fujitsu@aurora:~/Merge/wxmaxima$ wc -l wxmaxima_0.7.1-0ubuntu1.patch 
<Fujitsu> 0 wxmaxima_0.7.1-0ubuntu1.patch
<Fujitsu> That, for example.
<persia> The same probably occurs for all -0ubuntuX packages...
<siretart> Fujitsu: is this the same problem in libdts?
<Fujitsu> siretart: Try to debdiff it, and see if it complains about a size/checksum mismatch.
<siretart> k
<Fujitsu> Like so:
<Fujitsu> dpkg-source: error: file wxmaxima_0.7.1.orig.tar.gz has size 694125 instead of expected 679327
<siretart> i see
<Fujitsu> In this sort of case, MoM puts it in the manual merge list.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: oh, I see
<Lutin> persia: not quite sure about that..azureus seems to somewhat work
<persia> Lutin: The orig.tar.gz names differ.  This is probably because of the repack.  For free software, I would expect failure.
<Fujitsu> persia: No, for most it will be fine.
<Fujitsu> wxmaxima probably ships as a .tar.bz2 or something, so it has to be recompressed.
<persia> Fujitsu: For most -0ubuntuX differences?
<TheMuso> c/
<Fujitsu> persia: Right.
<Lutin> most -0ubuntuX should work
<Fujitsu> In this case I can't see why they differ, but most won't.
<persia> I've usually had trouble with merging -0ubuntuX versions, but perhaps it's just me.
<Fujitsu> -0ubuntuX versions are the only ones that this will occur in, but it won't occur in all of them.
<Fujitsu> Well, it can happen in later ones, actually, if they've been merged with Debian since.
* jdong testports irssi
<persia> Fujitsu: depends on the merge.  If Ubuntu changes are applied to Debian base (as recommended), it doesn't happen.  If Debian changes are applied to Ubuntu base, the issue continues.
<Fujitsu> persia: the orig.tar.gz cannot change. Soyuz won't let that happen.
<Fujitsu> Once it's uploaded, it's stuck like that until a new upstream version.
<persia> Grumble.  My understanding of recommendations is flawed.
<Fujitsu> ?
<persia> I thought that new Ubuntu revisions were supposed to attempt to mirror Debian revisions, including the adoption of Debian .orig.tar.gz where appropriate.  Apparently Soyuz prevents this.
<Fujitsu> dak doesn't let that happen either.
<Fujitsu> As far as I know, at least.
<persia> This complicates the packages.qa.debian.org patch tracking interface.  For dak, I suspect it's less of an issue, as Debian tends to let primary maintainers upload each upstream, with NMUs mostly restricted to revisions.
<Lutin> which is not always true with native ones
<dharrigan> Hi. If, using debuild, can I tell it to sign packages once it's done?
<Fujitsu> dharrigan: It does by default.
<persia> Lutin: Native revisions?
<Fujitsu> Lutin: Please, no native NMU versioning...
<Lutin> persia, Fujitsu : don't remember where, but I'm sure there's a native-NMU package somewhere
<persia> testapp 14.32.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.14
<Fujitsu> Lutin: Oh, there are.
* elkbuntu blinks
<Fujitsu> And they're missing from your merge list.
<Fujitsu> I was about to report that.
<Fujitsu> carpaltunnel is one of mine, and it's not there.
<Fujitsu> it doesn't need a merge, but the versioning means it looks like it does.
<Fujitsu> persia: Not quite. native-NMUing involves sticking a -0.1 on the end.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: native-NMU packages need to be merged as well, don't they ?
<Fujitsu> Lutin: They do, yes.
<Fujitsu> But ubuntuX > -0.1.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Thank you.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: oh
<Fujitsu> carpaltunnel 0.0.9ubuntu2 is actually 0.0.9ubuntu1's changes merged into 0.0.9-0.1.
<Fujitsu> Mithrandir attacked me for that upload, until I explained it was the only way
<Fujitsu> Basically, native-NMUing sucks, and breaks out versioning completely.
<Fujitsu> s/out/our/
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: lovely
<TheMuso> persia: Nethack uploaded.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yep, pretty much.
<Fujitsu> I've done a couple of those now.
* TheMuso should head to bed.
* Fujitsu too.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Probably need to give the debian maintainer a stern talking to.
<TheMuso> :)
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Why?
<TheMuso> ...or not. sorry didn't read quite properly. :)
* TheMuso wonders whether he will receive an email from soyuz in the next five minutes.
<jdong> I love it when they all arive, and my e-mail libnotify popups skyrocket
<Fujitsu> I've got the nethack one already.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: gutsy-changes?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Right.
<TheMuso> wow. I thought that list would be just a little busy.
<persia> Shows in my LP package list as well.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: why couldn't you do 0.0.9-0.1 => 0.0.8-0.1ubuntu ? it wouldn't have been considered as native the n?
<Fujitsu> Lutin: Argh, it's the Mithrandir question again!
<Fujitsu> 0.0.9ubuntu1 > 0.0.9-0.1
<Fujitsu> I can't upload something less than what's already there.
<dharrigan> Hi, I've uploaded some packages to my own repository, and when I try to install them I get the "cannot be authenticated" warning message. I've added my key to the apt-key ring
<dharrigan> what step am I missing?
<StevenK> dharrigan: Did you generate a Release and Release.gpg file?
<persia> Perhaps Ubuntu should avoid natives by always using something like 0.0.9-0ubuntu1.
* TheMuso is outa hee.
<StevenK> persia: But then it isn't a native package.
<TheMuso> here
<Fujitsu> persia: That implies an eternal diff from Debian for everything native.
<dharrigan> StevenK: yes, a Release, but no Release.gpg
<Fujitsu> Night, TheMuso .
<persia> StevenK: Exactly.  The diff.gz would be blank (or only Ubuntu changes).
<StevenK> dharrigan: Then that's what you're missing - a Release.gpg
<dharrigan> I'm using apt-ftparchive to generate my rleases
<StevenK> persia: No, it wouldn't, based on how dpkg works.
<dharrigan> I guess it's a switch on there
<StevenK> Hrm, maybe it would.
<persia> Fujitsu: Why?  0.0.9-0ubuntu1 > 0.0.9 and < 0.0.10, isn't it?
<StevenK> It would be easy to stuff up.
<persia> StevenK: very easy
<Fujitsu> persia: We already had a 0.0.9ubuntu1, which was already > 0.0.9-0.1
<Fujitsu> Wait, I think I misread that.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes.  In your case, you did the 100% correct thing.  I was thinking of a new guideline to prevent others from having your issue.
<Fujitsu> persia: We still need an eternal diff from Debian to keep the different version...
<persia> Fujitsu: Hrm?  When Debian releases 0.0.10, including all the patches we submitted back, we can sync.  When we diff, we can use 0.0.10-0ubuntu1, which is less than the NMU 0.0.10-0.1 or 0.0.10-0.1ubuntu1 if NMU'd (I think.  Now I'm going to play with dpkg --compare-versions)
<Fujitsu> Oh, only when we make changes, I see.
<StevenK> I won't be 0.0.10-0.1
<StevenK> That is non-native
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Yes it will!
<persia> StevenK: Are you especially attached to bacula?  It represents 10% of the remaining dependencies on wx2.4, and I'd like to merge, if you don't mind.
<Fujitsu> That's native-NMUing.
<StevenK> persia: It's the only merge I have!
<StevenK> Mine!
<persia> StevenK: OK.  Yours.
<StevenK> I have to fight other people for them.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: That's a matter of opinion.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: And one that hasn't been resolved, to my satisfaction, anyway.
<persia> dpkg --compare-versions agrees with me.
<Fujitsu> Oh, right. It's only in the Developer's Reference.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: there are plenty of merges for everyone...
<persia> Hobbsee: No, he can have that one.  It means there is a community helping with wx2.4 abolishment.  I'm in favour of that.
* Fujitsu wonders why versioning isn't in Policy.
<Hobbsee> lol
<jdong> Hobbsee: needed something from earlier?
<dharrigan> I'm getting a BADSIG now that I've created a Release.gpg and after running apt-ftparchive
<Hobbsee> jdong: yeah, wondering if a backprot of kvpnc from edgy to dapper works.  or feisty to dapper
<jdong> good question
<StevenK> dharrigan: Then it isn't signed/created right.
<dharrigan> StevenK: I thought that debuild would create the sign for me?
<StevenK> Why would debuild generate a Release.gpg?
<dharrigan> StevenK: I've done that manually by runnning gpg against Release
<dharrigan> gpg -abs -o Release.gpg Release
<StevenK> Then I'm out of ideas, sorry.
<jdong> doesn't the signed Release need to contain the md5sums of all the Packages files?
<persia> Lutin: Are you especially attached to thuban?  It represents 11% of the remaining dependencies on wx2.4, and I'd like to merge it, if you don't mind.
<Lutin> persia: sure, do it :)
<dharrigan> jdong: the relesae file contains all the md5's
<persia> Lutin: Thank you.
<Lutin> persia: np
<dharrigan> Anyone? I'm googling away but can't seem to find anything helpful to solve my BADSIG problem
<asac> BADSIG?
<dharrigan> GPG error: http://www.harrigan.info unstable Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 6B9BD284E2BE72FC David Harrigan <dharrigan@gmail.com>
<dharrigan> it's in my apt-key list (as root)
<ogra> as root ?
<ogra> you shouldnt touch packages as root ...
<dharrigan> I'm installing a package, so need to sudo
<ogra> sure
<ogra> but you are talking about building packages and signing, no ?
<jdong> Hobbsee: building edgy->Dapper right now... past depcheck so probably will succeed
<Hobbsee> right
<crimsun> "open sauce Ubuntu".  Nice.
<dharrigan> ogra: yes, I'm building as a normal user.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ogra> dharrigan, than you should sign as a normal user as well ;)
<dharrigan> then I'm uploading them to my server, running apt-ftparchive then gpg on the Release file, then I'm trying to sudo apt-get update and I get this user.
<ogra> i.e. not with roots gpg key)
<persia> Hello bddebian
<dharrigan> I do sign as a normal user. on the server, I have my gpg keys
<bddebian> Heya persia
<Adri2000> DaD updated :)
<dharrigan> ahhh
<dharrigan> wait just a moment
<dharrigan> I'm using debuild -us which means don't sign it
<ivoks_> so, it's official - ubuntu on dell machines?
<bddebian> Yeah?
<siretart> huh?
<ivoks_> yes
<ivoks_> http://news.com.com/Dell+picks+Ubuntu+for+Linux+PCs/2100-7344_3-6180419.html
<persia> Lutin: thuban looks like it should be a sync, but depends on newer packages in Debian.  I'll update DaD, but not process it.  Apologies for the false hope.
<Lutin> persia: so, it'll be synced ?
<bddebian> Hmm, thuban rings a bell for some reason
<persia> Lutin: It can't sync now - it doesn't build.  Debian moved to wx2.6, so there's no need to maintain Ubuntu changes, but until more packages are available, it cannot be built.
<Lutin> persia: eh, ok :)
<persia> bddebian: You worked on it for Breezy (or was it Edgy)
<bddebian> Ahh, OK :-)
<Lutin> good news though, sticking to 2.4 is almost pointless
<persia> Lutin: Yep.  I'm trying to migrate everything away during this session.  As of now, I need 2 sponsorships, 1 sync, 2 merges (one is tricky), 1 drop, and 5 patches.  I've finished 1.5 patches, and hope to get the rest this week.
<elkbuntu> ivoks_, not on dell.com or ubuntu.com yet
<sharms> http://news.com.com/Dell+picks+Ubuntu+for+Linux+PCs/2100-7344_3-6180419.html
<Hobbsee> persia: sponsorships?
<Lutin> persia: wow, great
<ivoks_> elkbuntu: right, not yet... we will see
<persia> Hobbsee: bug #111391, bug #111399 (those were the easy ones).
<sharms> ivoks_, elkbuntu: yes read my article.
<sharms> ivoks_, elkbuntu: Dell spokesman Kent Cook said
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111391 in sooperlooper "Build against wxwidgets2.6" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111391
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111399 in trustedqsl "Please build against wxWidgets 2.6" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111399
<Hobbsee> persia: ahh
<ivoks_> sharms: :) scroll up :)
<elkbuntu> sharms, i read it when it hit /. hence why i said 'yet'
<Hobbsee> persia: just become a MOTU, dammit.
<sharms> doh
* bddebian seconds that
<elkbuntu> sharms, plus, it's like the worst kept secret in the history of teh intarweb
<crimsun> dude, open sauce Ubuntu.
<crimsun> 'nuff said
<ogra> heh
<persia> Hobbsee: You convinced me last week to follow the process.  It'll take a while (and probably another absence for me) ;)
<persia> Hurrah!  Bugmail!
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> persia: is that "hurrah!  more bugs i can fix!"
<persia> Hobbsee: No, just happy to get status reports, rather than needing to check to see if anyone commented on anything.
<Hobbsee> ahh
<crimsun> ah, the days of "just" status reports
<crimsun> (oops, do I sound jaded?)
* elkbuntu pats crimsun
<persia> crimsun: Status reports can contain action items, no?
<crimsun> persia: sure, but six comments == six "status reports"
<crimsun> on high volume bugs, that's a real PitA.
<persia> crimsun: True.  I only see about 200 bugs, so the volume is less painful.
<crimsun> yeah, I definitely sound jaded.  I'll just shush.  :-)
<dharrigan> Ah, I'm stuck. I've created signed packages, I'm uploaded them to the server, I've created a release file and created a release.gpg file, but still I get a badsig error
<dharrigan> My dsc and changes file are both signed
<persia> crimsun: I've been investigating audacity.  Debian, Fedora, and OpenSUSE all have 1.3.2.  Free reports that he released 1.3.2 in 64 Studio some time ago, and has had very few reports of stability issues.  The upstream bugzilla has a number of issues that are reported "fixed in 1.3.2".  Could you recommend someone within Ubuntu to whom I should speak regarding the use of the "beta" version?
<siretart> persia: your rationale sound to me that we should just upload 1.3.2 to gutsy
<persia> siretart: crimsun was last uploader, so I want his blessing :)
<siretart> persia: sure
<Adri2000> <geser> I've an other suggestion: add the date when the page got generated <- done
<persia> siretart: Part of it was that upstream still reports 1.2.6 as "stable" and 1.3.2 as "beta", and that gutsy is supposed to be about stabilization, more than about new features.
* siretart has done his first offer for mentorship in LP. let's see what happens :)
<Hobbsee> siretart: don tdo it.  it'll turn evil :P
<siretart> Hobbsee: I see a swiss flag on the bug now. now, is that evil? ;)
<Hobbsee> :P
<sharms> http://www.ubuntu.com/news/dell-to-offer-ubuntu
<persia> ScottK: About pop-before-smtp.
<shawarma> Adri2000: I can't grab-merge.sh stunnel (the orig.tar.gz named in the REPORT file is wrong. It's missing dfsg).
<shawarma> Adri2000, Lutin: Either of you going to UDS by any chance?
<luckyone> masters of the universe, I would like to see KDEnlive in the repos, I think it looks like a quality video editing program. It is currently in debian sid
<Lutin> shawarma: no chance, no :/
<Lutin> luckyone: I'm working on it
<luckyone> Lutin: whooray!
* luckyone bows in appreciation
<Lutin> :)
<luckyone> adios masters of the universe, thanks for hearing my plea!
<Lutin> shawarma: thanks for your report concerning stunnel, I'm looking into it :)
<Lutin> shawarma: ok, actually it's fixed
<shawarma> Lutin: Eh?
<shawarma> Lutin: Oh, it'll be fixed on the next update or something?
<Lutin> shawarma: I mean, the code is fixed. you'll have to wait for the newt update though :)
<Lutin> next*
<shawarma> Lutin: Cool. I'll hack around it for now.
<shawarma> Lutin: Thanks.
<Lutin> shawarma: okay
<Lutin> shawarma: thank _you_ :)
* shawarma hugs Lutin and Adri2000 
<shawarma> Lutin, Adri2000: You guys totally rock.
<Lutin> :)
<Adri2000> :] 
<Lutin> shawarma: will you go to UDS ?
<Adri2000> shawarma: no, I'm not going to UDS :(
<persia> Adri2000: I was working on the merge of thuban, but it was blocked by gdal.  Do you have an attachment to gdal, or may I merge (or sync) so that thuban can be synchronised (or merged, if there is a problem with the new gdal)?
<zul_> is there going to be voip again at uds?
* persia hopes so
<Adri2000> persia: do it
<persia> Adri2000: Thanks.
<ranf> 
* persia resolves to avoid mentored bugs in the future
<bddebian> heh
<persia> Adri2000: Just for reference, gdal is a SYNC, pending import of ogdi.
<shawarma> Lutin: Yes, I'll be at UDS.
<siretart> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+mentoring should definitely be in our topic, what do you think?
<shawarma> Lutin, Adri2000: I was just asking since it would be a suitable occasion for buying you guys beer for doing this. :-) You'll just have to wait until we meet sometime.
<Lutin> shawarma: hehe . I would come, if I could. unfortunately I have classes 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:siretart] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe/Multiverse Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | Gutsy open for uploading | Let's merge! http://adrishost.homeip.net/DaD/merges/ | https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+mentoring
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:siretart] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe/Multiverse Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | Gutsy open for uploading | Let's merge! http://adrishost.homeip.net/DaD/merges/ | Want to join MOTU? Try helping out on these: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+mentoring
<jdong> wow that's long
<siretart> indeed
<jdong> those two added together filled up my irssi buffer :)
<DktrKranz> siretart, say I'm going to fix one of them, should I mail mentor or talk to him on IRC?
<siretart> DktrKranz: I'm fairly new to this mentorship idea, but mentors are automatically subscribed to the bugs, so they should receive any bugmail on the corresponding bugs anyway
<siretart> DktrKranz: if you need to discuss something, feel free to use either email, irc or whatever you think is best
<DktrKranz> I'll do, thanks
<persia> Does the Archive-Auto-Import automatically import new packages from Debian, and if so, do they go through an Ubuntu NEW queue?  If so, how can I check the status?
<siretart> persia: yes, they do
<siretart> persia: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue to check the NEW queue in gutsy
* bddebian dances around siretart
<persia> siretart: Thanks.
* siretart hugs bddebian 
<persia> siretart: If I can't find something there (or in the build queues or the repositories), is a hint required, or should I just wait a while?
<siretart> persia: if it isn't there, it is either accepted or not accepted, I think
<siretart> persia: did you get a 'ACCEPTED' mail from launchpad?
<persia> siretart: I didn't upload it.  I'm curious about the status of the import of ogdi-dfsg from Debian because it blocks a SYNC request for gdal, which blocks a sync request for thuban, for which the Ubuntu version depends on wx2.4.
<crimsun> persia: what do you mean?
<crimsun> persia: (RE: use)
<persia> crimsun: My apologies, but I don't have enough context.
<crimsun> 'Could you recommend someone within Ubuntu to whom I should speak regarding the use of the "beta" version?'
<persia> crimsun: When last we spoke, you indicated that you were not the primary caretaker for audacity.  I seem to have the highest upload count of Ubuntu versions in the changelog, but don't consider myself the primary caregiver either.  I was hoping you could suggest someone to whom I should make the case for a migration of audacity from 1.2.6 to 1.3.2.
<persia> s/spoke/communicated/
<crimsun> persia: there's no one to whom you need to make a case; we're not in any sort of freeze
<persia> crimsun: OK.  I'll check to see if merge or sync is appropriate, and file the relevant bug.  I thought you had concerns about 1.3.2 due to upstream labelling 1.2.6 as "stable" and 1.3.2 as "beta".
<crimsun> persia: yes, that was my approach, but I don't plan to touch audacity this cycle.
<siretart> persia: if launchpad doesn't now about the package yet, I'd bet it hasn't been synced yet
<persia> Ah.  I should probably find a volunteer to watch the bugs then, prior to requesting a newer version.
<persia> siretart: OK.  Thanks.  I'll just wait then.
* bddebian thinks he likes DaD better than MoM ;-P
<eolo999> ScottK, or anyone else, can you give a look to bug #110219, i think I shoul tag the bug as 'rejected', what do you think?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110219 in python-gnuplot "python-gnuplot package not working in feisty fawn" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110219
* Lutin hugs bddebian 
<bddebian> Lutin: What for? :)
<sharms> do you always need a reason for a hug?
* sharms hugs bddebian
<Lutin> bddebian: for liking DaD better than MoM
<bddebian> Ah :-)
<crimsun> eolo999: I'd leave it unconfirmed
<eolo999> crimsun, thanks
<eolo999> any python project that need some developer for small and simple task?
<eolo999> my english :s
<sharms> eolo999: best thing to do is check out the wiki pages for MOTU
<eolo999> sharms, i mean not packaging, but developing, i would like starting to code in a group...
<sharms> right, but we need you more
<sharms> ;)
<eolo999> in the meanwhile i'll check other registered python related bugs in launchpad... some suggestion?
<crimsun> eolo999: I'm sure ubiquity, migration-assistant, and apport could use some love
<crimsun> eolo999: not to mention bughelper
<eolo999> It would be nice to have a way to search bugs with a 'dev-language' keyword...
<dholbach> bughelper has some bugs marked as bitesize
* bddebian curses Debian sometimes.. :-(
<persia> bddebian: What now?
<bddebian> Just goofy stuff.  I know we are bad about it too but I don't know why it seems like they don't even look at any of our work.
<persia> bddebian: They don't have to.  That's why we exist :)
<alterlaszlo> ScottK, i'm back
<bddebian> Well for example when we upload a newer upstream and now they finally have it but some of our little tweaks aren't there.  Is it work merging or just sync it?
<bddebian> s/work/worth/
<ScottK> Hi alterlaszlo.
<persia> ScottK: Apologies for stealing your bug.  I really thought it was different.
<ScottK> Which bug?
<persia> ScottK: pop-before-smtp
<ScottK> Oh.
<ScottK> persia: I was on e-mail and didn't associate your IRC handle and the name.  I had no idea it was you.
<persia> ScottK: I guessed :)
<ScottK> persia: Did you file the bug in BTS yet?
* ScottK wasn't kidding about thinking that's important.
<persia> ScottK: Now that you're on IRC, you aren't checking your mail.  I still have about 60 pending, but I'm getting better about that.
<bddebian> Anyone have a PPC or ia64 handy?
<ScottK> persia: I got the one about you wanting to skip that step.
<h4writer> hi, got a question. If I want to make an installer for my program, where do I need to save the files? So where is the default installation dir for ubuntu? Does that apply to python programs too? Or have they another location?
<sharms> h4writer: you need to understand the linux filesystem: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/install/sparc/
<sharms> err
<sharms> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemTreeOverview
<alterlaszlo> h4writer, and you can give a look to python module 'distutils'
<jdong> Mez: "This was probably a case of PEBKAC".... probably?
<jdong> :)
<sharms> pebkac seems to be the new buzzword this week
<h4writer> sharms and alterlaszlo will look to it, thanks ;-)
<jdong> well it's the right word for "downloading the Dapper disc and thinking it was Feisty" :D
<sharms> ugh I gotta minimize irc and get some work done
<ScottK> persia: Thanks for the BTS bug.
<siretart> hrmpf
<persia> ScottK: Like I said, I'm getting better about it (being able to sync torcs was a big motivator).
<siretart> anyone feels like requesting jack-audio-connection-kit to be promoted to main?
<persia> siretart: I'd be happy to write it up, but why?
<siretart> persia: xine can build a jack output plugin, if it finds the jack headers
<siretart> it is enabled in debian, with it I could just sync the debian source
<persia> siretart: Ah.  The jack plugin for xine was merged with xine trunk?
<siretart> persia: it is since 1.1.4 I think. or even earlier
<persia> siretart: I thought it was separate, but I don't really follow xine closely.  Should anything go with it (qjackctl, etc.)?
<siretart> persia: I just need the library, but I'm sure our audiophilies think different ;)
<bmhm> can some1 send me a fixed .deb of "gDesklets" for feisty 64?
<bmhm> can't compile it myself somehow... 
<siretart> bmhm: what's broken?
<persia> siretart: Certainly, but I presume that anyone playing with audio has it installed from universe.  Does it need to run or be useful in self-constrained main?
<bmhm> its a known bug siretart 
<bmhm> the deamon won't run
<siretart> bmhm: what's the bug number?
<bmhm> erhm
<bmhm> wait a second
<bmhm> http://tinyurl.com/3xs5y7
<siretart> persia: I'd be perfectly happy if the daemon and stuff would be demoted to universe, I just need libjack0.100.0-dev in main
<bmhm> #83922
<siretart> and nothing more
<siretart> bug #83922
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 83922 in gdesklets "gdesklets does not start feisty herd3 amd64" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83922
<persia> siretart: OK.  I'll make a small report.  It should be easier to get in that way.  Thanks for the details.  Note that my queue is currently a few hours long, so it might be late tonight UTC.
<siretart> persia: oh. thank you very much! 
<siretart> persia: I think I'll upload a xine-lib version without the jack dependency anyway today
<persia> siretart: No worries.
<siretart> persia: It will FTBFS however, since ffmpeg is not in main yet, though
<siretart> but  ffmpeg won't get to main if nothing depends on it. a nice vicious circle
<persia> siretart: It's designed to fit in 700MB.  Not much space for more packages at this point :)
<siretart> persia: no, ffmpeg must not get on the cd in any case. I just need it as build-dependency
<siretart> bmhm: sorry, the bug does not contain a patch, and there doesn't seem to be a fix in debian either
<siretart> bmhm: I'd suggest to subscribe to that bug. if you can fix it, please attach your patch there and ask for sponsoring here
<bmhm> wait
<bmhm> i want to compile it myself siretart 
<bmhm> but it says:
<bmhm> http://nopaste.info/f323e89594.html
<bmhm> meaning: "nothing to do for target "all" "
<h4writer> alterlaszlo, you told me about distutils. Now can it be it is only for distributing modules so anyone can use those modules. I'm searching to make an installer for my program. So distutils isn't useful for me...
<siretart> bmhm: it seems that the variable $file is not set
<siretart> bmhm: seems the build system is screwed up
<ScottK> h4writer: distutils provides the Python installer tools.
<bmhm> siretart: so what can i do? configure went well...
<sharms> I think he wants a point -> click installer
<ScottK> h4writer: Are you looking for a gui installer?
<h4writer> ScottK, no, just looking to make an installer file for my program. I've started already
<ScottK> h4writer: OK.  Then distutils and setup.py is almost certainly what you want.
<ScottK> h4writer: Take a look at the pyyaml source package for a clean example.
<ScottK> h4writer: If you get a good setup.py, then packaging for Ubuntu with cdbs is trivial to do.
<h4writer> ScottK, and can I mention I want runner.py in /bin or so?
<h4writer> or do I need to script it afterward
<ScottK> h4writer: You can let disutils figure out where to put it or you can tell distutils where to put it, your choice.
<h4writer> okey
<ScottK> h4writer: pyspf source package shows the debian/rules file putting files where the are wanted.
<h4writer> okey, thanks. Will start to read now;-)
<ScottK> h4writer: Also, disutils is the Python way to do it.  Best to learn that if you are learning how.
<ScottK> err distutils.
<h4writer> ScottK, (y)
<persia> crimsun: When you have a few minutes, I'd like to review the reasons for some of the audacity 1.2.6 changes.
<gpocentek> anyone of the ubuntustudio team around?
<LaserJock> gpocentek: you could try #ubuntustudio-devel I think
<gpocentek> LaserJock: thanks
<Nafallo> where can I find automatix? I need the sourcecode to see what evil things the fucker does!
<zenrox> Nafallo: it dont do evil things
<zenrox> but look in #automatix tho for questions
<Nafallo> zenrox: I know. my ex-gf installed the damn thing. I've fixed sources.list and apt-key now...
<ScottK> zenrox: sigkilling dpkg may not be evil, but it's not sound design. (no more comments on this topic for me today).  
<Mez> jdong, lol - yeah, probably, as the site might have been updated since I downloaded
* jdong looks up at DktrKranz's quitmsg....
<ScottK> keescook: Were you still planning on sending out an e-mail on clamav or would you like for me to poke the e-mail list again?
<Nafallo> zenrox: thanks for pointing me to the channel. seems I can't get the source of them unless I unpack the damn .deb myself :-P
<keescook> ScottK: hey, sorry, I haven't had a chance yet (trying to do some mentoring and cleanup before I leave for UDS)
<keescook> go ahead and poke the mailing list again; I'm most interested in figuring out how to test breakage in things like php5-clamavlib
<ScottK> keescook: I'll try and write something up then.
<ScottK> doko: If you have a minute alterlaszlo would like to join us in the python* teams.  He's got good Python, but is still learning packaging (even more than me).  The Python part of this patch: http://librarian.launchpad.net/7471982/pysol-settings-fix.debdiff is his.  I'll help him out with packaging questions.
<persia> siretart: jack-audio-connection-kit build-depends on type-handling and libfreebob0-dev, both of which are still in universe.  libfreebob is fairly new, with only one upload to Debian, and no registered upstream bug tracker.  How much do you want it?
<alterlaszlo> ScottK, thanks for good python ;) i'm a rapid learner, but still learning..
<siretart> persia: gna, leave it. I'll talk to pitti about it at UDS
<siretart> persia: thanks for looking so deep into it
<persia> OK.  I'll email you a quick brief of my research in case you want to file later.
<siretart> that would be great!
<siretart> maybe some other folks from ubuntustudio are interested in working on this? might be good to CC them
<persia> siretart: Sorry: saw your message too late :(
<siretart> persia: excellent report, thanks a lot. I'm sure it will help me arguing with pitti :)
<persia> siretart: The only problem I saw was freebob, which is just very new.
<ajmitch> morning
<ScottK> Good morning ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<bddebian> et tu LaserJock
<ajmitch> LaserJock!
<LaserJock> my flight got canceled :(
<bddebian> doh
<LaserJock> bddebian: that's what I thought
<LaserJock> I had to really run to make the flight in the first place
<LaserJock> they were all "You really need to get here earlier"
<LaserJock> so I made it
<LaserJock> and then the captain's messing around with stuff in the cockpit
<LaserJock> and 30 min later he said that the cabin pressurization system wasn't work
<LaserJock> +ing
<LaserJock> then another 30 min. and they canceled the flight and told us to get off the plane
<LaserJock> so I spent ~ 3 years standing in line getting rebooked and new tickets
<LaserJock> hehe, s/years/hours/
<LaserJock> seemed like years
<ajmitch> LaserJock: so what now?
* ajmitch was a little surprised to see you on irc
<LaserJock> I'm trying again
<LaserJock> same flights, just 24hrs later
<ajmitch> painful
<ajmitch> oh well, that's another 24 hours in our company on irc
<LaserJock> but it means I'll miss the first morning of UES
<ajmitch> suck :(
<siretart> LaserJock: :(
<ajmitch> I suppose it's better than everyone on the plane passing out as the plane crosses the atlantic
<LaserJock> yeah
<ajmitch> brb
<eolo999> ScottK, any news?
<ScottK> No.  He's probably offline.
<ScottK> Many people are focused on getting ready for UDS this week.
<ajmitch> plus it was a public holiday in .de
<ScottK> Ah.  Did not know that.  Thanks ajmitch.
<eolo999> in italy too... it's the working class day...
<keescook> hm, where do I get arbitrary debian diff.gz's from?  (I want to do a manual merge of a main package...)
<LaserJock> arbitary?
<keescook> LaserJock: like, squid 2.6.5-4 so I can see the ubuntu changes made
<LaserJock> well, if it's a current Debian version I usually use the link on packages.qa.debian.org
<LaserJock> if it's not still in the archive, I think snapshots.debian.org is the archive
<keescook> LaserJock: yeah, that's the problem; it's not a version that's in ... aaah! snapshots! cool, I will go check
<keescook> hm... does not exist.
<keescook> ah! http://snapshot.debian.net/
* ScottK quits hitting refresh on http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html and goes off to do something productive (package is near the top)...
<ajmitch> oh it could be stuck there for awhile
<ajmitch> hey keescook :)
<keescook> hiya ajmitch!
* ajmitch wants to update samba
<ajmitch> hopefully 3.0.25 should be out real soon now
<ajmitch> morning StevenK 
* StevenK waves blearily.
<ajmitch> up early today
<StevenK> Yeah, need to be at work in an hour.
<ajmitch> nasty
<tbender> hi
<ScottK> Helle er4z0r
<ScottK> Err Hello
<er4z0r> ScottK: I would like to make a suggestion about dependencies of a certain package. Is this ok here or do I need to subscribe the list?
<ajmitch> amazing, the needs building queue for gutsy i386 is finally empty
<pochu> hi all
<pochu> slomo: can you sponsor a liferea update?
<Lutin> hi pochu 
<pochu> slomo: it fixes at least 3 lp crashes
<ScottK> er4z0r: We can discuss such things here.  What package?
<pochu> hey Lutin
<slomo> pochu: url? :)
<er4z0r> ScottK: basket - a multi-purpose note-taking application for KDE
<pochu> slomo: sure :) http://emilio.pozuelo.org/deb/
<er4z0r> ScottK: it has a dependency on kontact, which is somehow strange to me
<pochu> thanks!
<slomo> pochu: thanks, i'll take a look later
<pochu> slomo: ok, thank you!
<er4z0r> why should I need the whole bunch of apps (kmail, kadddressbook etc.) if I only want that basket
<ScottK> er4z0r: Kubuntu packages all those together.  For example, if you want kmail you need all that stuff too.
<ScottK> er4z0r: For that particular kind of discussion (because it's about how Kubuntu packages KDE that is unique to Kubuntu) #kubuntu-devel would actually be a better channel.
<er4z0r> ah ok, thank you
<ScottK> er4z0r: Just know going in that it's that way on purpose.
<er4z0r> hmm, quite annoying to people who prefer to use other than KDE apps for mail, calendar etc.
<ScottK> er4z0r: Sure, but it's a design decision they've made.
<pochu> slomo: now they're 4 crashes, instead of 3 :-) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liferea/+bug/103724
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 103724 in liferea "liferea crash when i clicking an video link (mpg,ogg, etc..)" [Medium,Needs info]  
<pochu> slomo: so feel free to update the changelog, if you're going to upload it :)
<ScottK> If anyone is interested in wordpress, Bug #111620 may be worth fixing....
<slomo> pochu: done ;) looks good, i'll just testbuild it now and then it's up :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111620 in wordpress "Remote Exploits: multiple vulnerabilities" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111620
<ajmitch> yay, more wordpress holes
<jmg> suxpress
* ajmitch guesses that many of these are already fixed in ubuntu
<slomo> pochu: uploaded
<DktrKranz> any sponsors around to review some merges?
<pochu> slomo: thanks a lot!
<sacater> pochu: meep
<sacater> :D
<pochu> hey sacater!
<Lutin> DktrKranz: sure
<DktrKranz> Lutin, thanks
<DktrKranz> I've got some
<Lutin> DktrKranz: ok. what package(s) ?
<DktrKranz> bug 111439
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111439 in bbclone "Please merge bbclone 0.4.6-9 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111439
<pochu> I'm off to bed, it has been a long day
<Lichte> can I get to feisty+1 by changing the word feisty to gutsy in apt sources and then apt-get distupgrade ?
<sacater> pochu: g'night
<jdong> Lichte: that's what I've heard most developers do to make their pbuilder gutsy
<er4z0r> ok, found what I needed
<er4z0r> thanks guys
<bddebian> Later gang
<Lutin> DktrKranz: commited. thanks for your work :)
<DktrKranz> thanks to you :)
<DktrKranz> I've got some more, if you want
<Lutin> DktrKranz: one more, then I'll go to bed :)
<DktrKranz> yep :)
<DktrKranz> bug 110770
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110770 in amanda "Please merge amanda 1:2.5.1p3-2 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110770
<Fujitsu> Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
<Fujitsu> Stupid, stupid, stupid mplayer-using person.
<ajmitch> hello to you too
<Fujitsu> Defending the suggested inclusion of a new upstream checkout in feisty-updates:
<Fujitsu> `I don't agree. e.g. Complete new Firefox bugfix-versions (2.0.0.*) are
<Fujitsu> released using the Ubuntu update mechanism.'
<Fujitsu> Hi ajmitch.
<Lutin> DktrKranz: as the maintainer change is a new change, it should be listed in a separate changelog entry, not listed with the remaining changes
<Lutin> other than that, ok
<DktrKranz> whoops!
<DktrKranz> I'm going to fix it
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-02
<DktrKranz> Lutin, adjusted, could you please check?
<Lutin> DktrKranz: sure
<jmg> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6610901.stm
<Fujitsu> jmg: Nice! I didn't realise it had made such major news outlets.
<jmg> Fujitsu: i imagine there will be a call made from BillG to MichaelD sometime soon
<Lutin> DktrKranz: commited
<DktrKranz> thanks, again :)
<ajmitch> yay, apache 1.3 will be killed from sid soon
<jmg> why????/
<ajmitch> because they don't want to be supporting it in 3 years time?
<jmg> heh
<Burgwork> only BBC
<ajmitch> seriously, they remove things now, because they have to support them for the lifetime of lenny development & whatever follows
<ajmitch> same with php4
<DktrKranz> ajmitch, is that news on some ML?
<ajmitch> DktrKranz: just debian-devel
<DktrKranz> ok, I'm going to search
<DktrKranz> PHP 4 too?
* ajmitch can get back to unbreaking his packages
<ajmitch> of course
<Fujitsu> I'm devastated at the loss of both.
<Fujitsu> They were such valuable assets.
* ajmitch still has to use php4
<jmg> heh
<Burgwork> ajmitch: you know more about this DaD?
<Lutin> Burgwork: is there something in particular you want to know ?
<Fujitsu> Burgwork: DaD is the work of Lutin.
<Lutin> and ajmitch 
<Lutin> err. Adri2000 
<Burgwork> Lutin: nah, just interested for the UWN
<ajmitch> not me
<ajmitch> I don't do anything useful like that
<Burgwork> heh
<Lutin> you do tons of other useful things
<ajmitch> Lutin: oh really?
<Amaranth> *sigh*
<Amaranth> compiz is now getting some really weird bugs filed against it
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: eg?
<Amaranth> bug 111454
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111454 in compiz "Insane CPU usage with compiz" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111454
<Lutin> ajmitch: sure :)
<ajmitch> Lutin: I just show up lots on irc
<Burgwork> Lutin: does it do everything MoM did?
<Burgwork> how do people get involved in development, etc
<Amaranth> although this guy didn't file it against compiz, seb128 moved it there
<Fujitsu> Burgwork: No, it doesn't do everything MoM did. One big aspect of MoM that is missing is the being out of date.
<Burgwork> heh
<Lutin> Burgwork: apart the fact it lists only uni/multiverse merges :)
<Fujitsu> I really don't think evolution-data-server is going to be affected by compiz.
<Burgwork> Lutin: one suggestion on the UI: I would link directly to the patch file in the UI
<ajmitch> it doesn't have the fancy graphs
<Burgwork> oh, and make the bug links clickable
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Oh no!
<Adri2000> Burgwork: I've just sent a mail about DaD to ubuntu-devel :)
<Burgwork> LP lacks shiny graphs
<Amaranth> I'm thinking I should just blame nvidia-glx for this bug :)
<Fujitsu> Burgwork: They're textboxes, so it's not really possible.
<Burgwork> Adri2000: just saw that
<Burgwork> hence my questions/comments
<Amaranth> It makes the kernel do something eds doesn't like ;)
<Amaranth> What does DaD stand for?
<Adri2000> Burgwork: bugs number linkable is not possible, because comments are in an unput type=text so that they can be modified
<Adri2000> input*
<Lutin> Amaranth: suggestions are welcome :)
<geser> Amaranth: it's the counterpart to MoM
<Adri2000> Amaranth: nothing for the moment, it's just MoM...DaD :p
<Amaranth> It has to be Debian something
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: Maybe you could parse the comment, and add a `(bug)' link next to it if it's a bug reference. It'd be useful to have the link somewhere.
<Fujitsu> Debian-assisted-D....
<ogra> Burgwork, to answer your question from #ltsp ... dhcpd checks for a matching interface on startup ... if it has a subnet declaration for an interface it will bind to it
<Burgwork> Done already in Debian?
<Burgwork> ogra: ah,, thanks
<geser> Debian-assisted-Desaster :)
<ogra> does anybody know who runs the christian edition ? 
<Lutin> geser: :)
<ajmitch> pretty much what I answered :)
<welshbyte> why don't the MoM devs get together with the DaD devs and make a BaBY?  *duck*
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: adding to TODO, I'll try to do that
<ogra> i seem to have gotten an email wrongly i'd like to forward to the right ppl
<Lutin> welshbyte: hehe 
<Amaranth> ogra: It has developers? I thought it just appeared one day
<ogra> giggle
<Fujitsu> Ew, CE is bright orange.
<Amaranth> your best bet is probably their subforum on ubuntuforums.org
<Amaranth> I don't even know if they have a website
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: christianubuntu.com?
<Fujitsu> Which redirects to whatwouldjesusdownload.com
<ogra> ah, right ... 
<Amaranth> you're kidding
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: Unfortunately not.
<dabaR> pah
<ogra> wasnt raphnik involved there as well ? or was that ichthux ?
<Fujitsu> ogra: That was Ichthux.
<ogra> ah
<Fujitsu> I'm not sure what massive benefits CE has over Ichthux.
<ajmitch> ichthux actually has known developers, and packages in universe
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Which must be a downside.
<Amaranth> I thought CE was a script run on top of default ubuntu to change it
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: why?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Why else would CE exist?
<Amaranth> while Ichthux was a real distro
<Fujitsu> Hm, they have a link Ichthux on their sidebar.
<ajmitch> I think CE was around first, in vague form
<Amaranth> it was
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: Ichthux has a script to install on top of default Ubuntu as well. It's called `sudo apt-get install ichthux-desktop'
<Burgwork> Fujitsu: pish, your sane install methods
<Amaranth> Fujitsu: haha
<ajmitch> that's like comparing kubuntu-desktop with automatix
<Burgwork> give me crackish script any day
<LaserJock> CE was after Ichthux
<ajmitch> LaserJock: oh was it?
<LaserJock> the CE guy got the idea about a year after Ichthux was started by raphink
<LaserJock> he got the idea from Ichthux, rather
<ajmitch> ah yes, ichthux was debian-based awhile ago
<LaserJock> it was first a Knoppix remix
<LaserJock> then was going to be a CDD since there were a few DDs involved
<LaserJock> then since raphink got involved with Kubuntu it became Kubuntu based
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
<ajmitch> hi TheMuso 
<dabaR> Its MsOTU
<dabaR> It's It's
* dabaR loves the amount of coherent contribution he does.
<ScottK> Heya TheMuso.
<Lutin> hey TheMuso 
<Adri2000> Fujitsu, Burgwork: bug links are now clickable
<ajmitch> Adri2000: yay!
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: Great :)
<ajmitch> how'd you do it?
<Adri2000> eh, and same bug as in LP, debian bug #nnnnn is matched :p
<ajmitch> yeah, but input fields?
<Adri2000> ajmitch: look, it's not clickable in the input field
<Adri2000> there is a link in the "package" column
<ajmitch> right, I hadn't refreshed
<RAOF> If anyone's around, I'd just like to check that bug #111651 looks right for my first sync request.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111651 in banshee "banshee: Sync 0.12.1+dfsg-3 from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111651
<shawarma> RAOF: At a glance, it looks fine. I can recommend the requestsync script in the devscripts package, though.
<shawarma> RAOF: If it bitches about a missing e-mail, you should just set the DEBEMAIL environment variable.
<RAOF> Thanks.  I'll check it out next time.
<RAOF> I already do :)
<TheMuso> requestsync is only currently useful for MOTUs
<TheMuso> As it automatically subscribes ubuntu-archive admins.
<shawarma> TheMuso: Oh, right. I forget.
<RAOF> Oooh, not a good idea for me then :)
<TheMuso> Probably wouldn't be hard to add a command-line flag to make it subscribe uus or ums where necessary.
<TheMuso> I may look into that.
<shawarma> RAOF: Of course you could comment that bit out of the script.
<RAOF> Man, democracyplayer's going to kill me *again* :(
* shawarma goes to bed
<shawarma> Goodnight.
<RAOF> Night!
<RAOF> TheMuso: devscripts are python, right?  And published in bzr on launchpad?
<TheMuso> RAOF: Don't know. Afaik only requestsync is python.
<TheMuso> The rest are mostly perl.
<RAOF> Ugh, don't know perl.
<TheMuso> Anyways, I may add that to the script later if I get a chance.
<TheMuso> the uus/ums stuff.
<RAOF> Eh, looks simple enough that I could do it myself.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Ok if you want to.
<TheMuso> RAOF: I feel that having something like that will still make the script useful to non-MOTUs.
<TheMuso> Probably wouldn't hurt to write a manpage for it as well. I may do that at some point.
<TheMuso> Back later.
* ajmitch returns
* Fujitsu greets ajmitch.
<ajmitch> so what's new?
<ajmitch> universe merged yet?
<Fujitsu> Of course.
<ajmitch> good
* ajmitch returns to sleep
* Fujitsu wonders when syncs will be processed.
<ajmitch> when an archive admin has time
<Fujitsu> Possibly.
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> I guess that's less ubuntu time for me tonight
* ajmitch got text message requiring presence at pub this evening, due to a friend being in town
<ajmitch> what a shame
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
<RAOF> Hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi Fujitsu, RAOF
<bddebian> so WTF is dh_gtkmodules ?  That's a new one on me
<joejaxx> Hello Everyone
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<joejaxx> time for me to do some merges
<ajmitch> oh, it's bddebian 
<bddebian> Recognize the WTF did ya?
<jmg> rtfs?
<joejaxx> haha
<jmg> :)
<joejaxx> :P
<ajmitch> yes, I should just put an /ignore line in for anything containing 'wtf' or similar
<ajmitch> it'd probably cut down on a lot of traffic
<bddebian> *boo hoo*
<jmg> ajmitch, ignore is client side
<ajmitch> jmg: I'm aware of that
<ajmitch> I mean visible noise
<jmg> okay
<jmg> lines per hour
<jmg> *snort*
<ajmitch> it'd probably mean a few MB less each month in the logs
<jmg> heh
<Lathiat> ya'll should check digg.com today
<Lathiat> hilarious
<jmg> haha
<Fujitsu> Lathiat: Same on /.
<Lathiat> One story was posted and deleted by digg.com after 16,000 diggs
<Lathiat> now its covered
<Fujitsu> Somebody added a tag to the article.
<Lathiat> heh yeh
<jmg> that key is so going to get blacklisted
<Lathiat> oh, naturally
<jmg> if not, ill get it as a tattoo
<jmg> http://09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63.com/
<Tesl> Hey everyone =)
<Tesl> I'm in an interesting position right now, I'm working as a software developer but right now (and for a few weeks by the looks of things) I have completely nothing to do, so figured I could start getting involved in doing some development over here =')
<ScottK> Hi Tesl
<ScottK> What are you interested in?
<Tesl> Right now I'm just spending today finishing up a study tool (Features are all there, the code is just veryyyy hacked up right now!) (http://sourceforge.net/projects/jlst)
* TheMuso returns
<bddebian> wb TheMuso
<Tesl> I'm not sure particularly, My development background is mostly C++, but with a fair bit of Java/Python too
<Tesl> And shell scripting if required :] 
<ScottK> Cool.  Do you have any background with Debian packaging?
<Tesl> I've been doing quite a lot of GUI related work lately using Glade, kinda enjoying that
<Tesl> Not so much =/
<ScottK> Tesl: Are you using Ubuntu or Kubuntu or ?
<bddebian> bluekuja: ping?
<Tesl> This laptop is actually Fedora Core 6 =P
<Tesl> But Ubuntu
<ScottK> Lack of packaging background is fine, this is a good place to learn.
<ScottK> OK.  I won't point you at KDE stuff then... (I use Kubuntu).
* bddebian wants to learn from ScottK
<Tesl> I've written code before using QT3, but not for a pretty long time now
<ScottK> bddebian just needs a little more age and wisdom.
<bddebian> hah
<RAOF> Heh, if you wanted some actual coding work, I'm sure Kubuntu would *love* to have the restricted-manager ported to QT :)
<ScottK> Tesl: Found any bugs that annoy you and you want to fix?
* ScottK wouldn't care - doesn't use restricted video drivers....
<Tesl> Not particularly, or at least nothing that I'd feel particularly capable of fixing myself (ie, weird beryl behaviour, or printer drivers :P)
<ScottK> Earlier today crimsun was saying that bughelper needs help with coding and it's in Python.
<Tesl> I'm really enjoying Python, only started using it a few months back but it's totally stolen my heart heh
<ScottK> Tesl: Where we are now is early in the development process for Gutsy to be released in October.  Looking through Launchpad to find something you'd like to try and fix is a great way to get started.
<ScottK> Tesl: You can then come here and get help packaging your fix for upload and start to learn about that too.
<Tesl> Sounds good =)
<Tesl> Thanks ScottK, I appreciate the help
<ScottK> Tesl: No problem.  We've got about 20,000 open bugs (Not all valid of course) so we can use all the help we can get.  Thanks for showing up to contribute.
<Tesl> Downloading Feisty just now, I've another machine sat next to me which I can turn into my new dev machine for this :] 
<bddebian> w00t
<ScottK> Excellent.
<bddebian> Wow, ScottK becomes the MOTU PR man :-)
<ScottK> If I can't upload, I can recruit.
<TheMuso> Tesl: Once you have feisty set up, I suggest you set up a gutsy pbuilder and chroot. Chroot instructions are found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<ScottK> Tesl: On another topic, since you're running FC and like Python - have you ever contributed/updated packages for Fedora (I need help with that with another hat on)?
<TheMuso> Tesl: Setting up pbuilder can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Tesl> TheMuso, I've Feisty on one laptop and I'm putting it on another, but I'll be sure to do just that
<Tesl> ScottK, I've never contributed to Fedora, but I have built RPM's before (admittedly, not recently)
<ScottK> Tesl: Thanks.  I'm looking for someone who understands the contribution process (I've got RPM spec files contributed already) I understand it's somewhat Byzentine. 
<ScottK> Nevermind - was off topic here anyway.
<Tesl> No problem :] 
<Tesl> Ahh finally a decent DL speed. I'm based in Japan right now, so its always upsetting when I'm downloading at anything less than 1mb/s heh
<bddebian> Gah, I'm dragging butt, I'm going to bed.  Gnight folks
<_MMA_> night
<ajmitch> bye bddebian 
<ajmitch> hello Burgundavia 
<jmg> whats the right place to raise a bug for laptop support (terrible acpi, broken sound)?
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
<Burgundavia>  elkbuntu: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-planet-editorial-policy
<Burgundavia> and anybody else who wants to look at it
* ajmitch looks
<Fujitsu> Is there a no-posting-aacs-processing-keys clause?
<ajmitch> heh
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: that would fall under the "company objects to post"
<jdongbotu> lol
<Fujitsu> I haven't actually read it yet.
<Burgundavia> illegial content is an interesting question
<Fujitsu> But that key isn't necessarily illegal.
<jdongbotu> the key is illegal....
<Fujitsu> Surely a 128-bit number can't be copyrighted.
<Burgundavia> only is certain counties
<jdongbotu> in the USA it is
<jdongbotu> DMCA's flying everywhere
<Fujitsu> Sure, but DMCA-takedowns seem to be issued for everything these days.
<jdongbotu> taking a look at digg.com....
<jdongbotu> I DONT THINK IT CAN BE ENFORCED :D
<Burgundavia> hmm, it probably should mention the DMCA in there
<tonyyarusso> Only use of the key is illegal, not knowledge of it, afaik ianal
<jdongbotu> tonyyarusso: apparently the key itself is protected from DMCA
<jdongbotu> because you can't distribute it
<jdongbotu> but IANAL
<jdongbotu> I am jdongbotu, the all knowing bot.
<Burgundavia> things you gain for illegal activies tend to be illegal
<Fujitsu> I like the proposed pirate flags, resulting from converting it to hex colours.
* tonyyarusso lets all of the non-US folks post it then
<jdongbotu> Fujitsu: lol yes :)
<jdongbotu> FWIW I have it as my wallpaper
<Fujitsu> jdongbotu: Me too!
<jdongbotu> :)
<jdongbotu> I have it on irssi alias too
<Fujitsu> It's a little unfortunate that it's a byte too long :(
<jdongbotu> just for the heck of it
<jdongbotu> Fujitsu: that... bites.
<Burgundavia> linky to the image?
<jdongbotu> http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/54442119/
<Fujitsu> http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9812/colorsgq0.png
<jdongbotu> it's pretty beautiful on the eyes too
<Fujitsu> It's very LP.
<jdongbotu> Fujitsu: coincidence? :)
<Fujitsu> Has everybody heard the song?
<jdongbotu> Fujitsu: I've heard about it :)
<Fujitsu> So, Fabian blogged about the Dell deal before the embargo was actually lifted?
<ajmitch> dunno
* ajmitch is reading forums
<ajmitch> "Perhaps a new release plan should be developed so all bugs are fixed for new releases.
<ajmitch> funny
<ajmitch> very funny
<jdong> ajmitch: anyone reply back "it's called debian"?
<ajmitch> jdong: of course
<jdong> :)
<jdong> problem solved :)
<Fujitsu> 3. A clean install of the release is done daily on the PC, using the daily ISOs. Not being able to install on the PC is a release blocking bug. Not being able to boot the PC to gdm is a release blocking bug.
<Fujitsu> Great idea, forum users!
<Fujitsu> Let's reinstall our systems daily!
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: this is for specific testing, of course
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: that is sane
<Burgundavia> what most forums people don't see is that their bug is not everybodies
<ajmitch> an example used in that post is importing into f-spot
<ajmitch> whereas you need to test importing with many types of cameras & images
<ajmitch> it has to be broader testing, rather than repetitive
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: So we need to get every type of camera! Duh.
<ajmitch> time for a caffeine run
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gaim/+bug/111668
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111668 in gaim "internet running slow" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Fujitsu> We need something like Digg, but for Malone bugs.
<jmg> chop chop
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: might as well reply that the dead bits of gaim are clogging the tubes
<jmg> ajmitch +1
<Fujitsu> Probably!
<jdong> be nice :)
<jdong> I'm sure he actually suspects that some sort of gaim deadlock is slowing down his network
<persia> jdong: Easy to reproduce: connect with a modem & join a high-bandwidth warez channel
<Fujitsu> Call the plumber.
<jdong> lol, but seriously
<jdong> we've had positive ID of a bunch of KTorrent bugs where it would go ballistic and try to map infinite numbers of UDP connections
<jdong> and manage to drop out connectivity for an entire NAT
<ajmitch> that's pretty special
<jdong> so it isn't 100% ridiculous to suspect a crashed gaim can peg the network
<Burgundavia> wow, glad I run GNOME
<jdong> Burgundavia: your GNOME torrenting apps are worse ;-)
<Burgundavia> because GNOME is bug free
<jdong> lol
<Burgundavia> everybody knows that :)
<jdong> yay deluge!
<jdong> and Azureus!
<jmg> bug free, as in bugs for free
<jdong> and you have that crusty 8-year-old bittorrent-3.4.2 also :D
<Burgundavia> that is due to bittorrent changing their license
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Obviously GNOME's fault.
<Burgundavia> clearly, just like povery and war
<jdong> lol
<ajmitch> and world hunger
<jdong> uh huh :)
<Fujitsu> We cause all problems.
<Burgundavia> no, world hunger is caused by KDE
<ajmitch> all you need to do is install enlightenment
* ScottK once used fish to copy ~20,000 small files onto a server and (not understanding how all the worked) fork bombed the server.  That was fun.
<jmg> yay forkbombs
<crimsun> persia: ping, what do you wish to discuss WRT audacity 1.2.6?
<persia> crimsun: You changed to a lot of --system libraries (especially for portaudio).  I just wanted to find out why, so as to determine whether to maintain the delta.  Also, I was curious about disabling resampling.
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<RAOF> Heya Hobbsee 
<crimsun> persia: sec, alsa triage ATM.
<persia> crimsun: No rush.  Audacity won't install for anyone until the libflac5++ migration is done anyway :)
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch, RAOF 
<crimsun> persia: at the date of the original 1.2.6 merge, samplerate and resample usage were mutually exclusive.  ALSA and JACK support had been requested for sometime, so I hacked in support for the system PA19.
<persia> crimsun: Thanks.  I'll check upstream re: samplerate/resample, and use internal libraries as Debian (so long as ALSA/JACK works).
<crimsun> Why am I so surprised that XFS beats the pants off JFS for streaming x264 encodes?  Hmph.
<RAOF> I would've thought that the FS overhead would be insignificant compared to the processing required?
<jdong> RAOF: probably cache flushing
<jdong> but XFS streaming performance rocks
<jdong> and you don't end up with a file in 15000 fragments like ext3
<TheMuso> crimsun: Do you normally use JFS?
<crimsun> TheMuso: on external USB drives, yes.
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
* TheMuso uses it for everything atm.
<ranf> mornin'
<ranf> Umm, my very first upload to REVU was binary. How do I use dcut now? "dcut revu rm x.changes" ?
<Fujitsu> ranf: dcut doesn't work on REVU. Ask a REVU admin to help.
<ranf> Fujitsu: ok
<ajmitch> ranf: package name?
<ranf> ajmitch: wtmptail
<ajmitch> removed
<ranf> great. thanks
<ranf> Now it's the source pkg. I'm not sure if I picked a too simple package as a starter.
<RAOF> When are packages in main likely to be finished merging/syncing (particularly: python-support 0.6).  I just want to know whether to wait for that before merging democracyplayer.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: whne they all build
<ajmitch> and when the ones that failed have been given back again\
<RAOF> Oh, it's just automatic merge/sync?
<ajmitch> since it can take a few tries to ram some of them through :)
<ajmitch> merging is always done manually
<ajmitch> and will mostly be done after UDS
<crimsun> I tend to not shove in merges until the first round finishes.
<crimsun> let the dust settle a bit; it hasn't been open very long.
<RAOF> Ok.  So I can put off wrestling with democracyplayer again.
<RAOF> Heh, maybe upstream will release a fixed version before I touch it again :)
<Burgundavia> RAOF: democracy player is a great idea
<Burgundavia> just not a great implementation
<RAOF> I'm not totally sure why it's firefox, really.
<RAOF> XUL is great, as long as you want to look awkwardly out of place *everywhere*
<Burgundavia> indeed
<ajmitch> hi viviersf 
<viviersf> elo ajmitch 
<crimsun> imbrandon: ping, there's a request for rsync service for xubuntu isos on imbrandon.com.
<dholbach> GOOD MORNING
<crimsun> EHLO
* dholbach HUGS crimsun
<ajmitch> HEY DANIEL(s)!
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<crimsun> allo
* jussi01 tickles dholbach
* dholbach tickles jussi01 back
<jussi01> hi Daniel
<dholbach> how's it going?
<jussi01> good thanks, you manage to take a look at waon yet?
<jussi01> hows yourself?
<dholbach> no no yet
<dholbach> I'm quite busy atm, sorry
<jussi01> ok, np's whenever you get to it :D
<jussi01> dholbach: btw, I have a question, gpocentek said something about the "all rights reserved" may not be good in the readme... whats your view?
<Lutin> hey there
<jussi01> hi Lutin
<ajmitch> hi Lutin 
<ajmitch> jussi01: should be ok if there's a clear license
<Lutin> hi ajmitch and jussi01 
<Lutin> dholbach: you around ?
<crimsun> around but likely quite busy.
<crimsun> according to 4 minutes prior
* Lutin slaps himself for not reading before asking questions
<jussi01> ajmitch: excellent. if you get a chance maybe could you also check out my package? I think its just about ready,,,,
<Lutin> thanks crimsun 
* ajmitch is also on limited time tonight
<jussi01> ajmitch: ok no probs
<ajmitch> what is it?
<jussi01> ajmitch: waon
<jussi01> ajmitch: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4929
* ajmitch would suggest stripping unnecessary dh_* rules in debian/rules
<ajmitch> it looks very much like a dh_make template that hasn't been cleaned up
<ajmitch> eg you use dh_installexamples, do you ship any examples?
<jussi01> ok, i can do that
<imbrandon> crimsun: pong, sure ? they just want me to mirror them and make them available via rsync ?
<crimsun> imbrandon: from what I gather, yes.
<imbrandon> i guess i could do all the iso's for that matter
<imbrandon> ok
<crimsun> many thanks
<imbrandon> anyone i should poke when i get it done ? you ?
<ajmitch> +Maintainer: Jussi Schultink <jussi01@gmail.com> <-- should be updated for the maintainer spec, so that it's an ubuntu.com address like MOTU
<ajmitch> jussi01: does it *only* run on i386?
<jussi01> ajmitch: unfortuantely yes
<ajmitch> that's plain nasty :)
<jussi01> ajmitch: explain to me? Im not allowed to have me as the maintainer?
<ajmitch> you get recorded as XSBC-Original-Maintainer
<Tesl> Anyone want to do me a favour? =)
<Tesl> Just uploaded the first release to sourceforge of a project I was working on (for my own benefit really)
<ajmitch> MOTU or some other ubuntu.com address gets to be maintainer
<Tesl> Anyone want to test it quickly?
<ajmitch> Tesl: excellent :)
<Tesl> sourceforge.net/projects/jlst
<Tesl> It's a tool to help me study Kanji / Japanese Vocab (I live in Japan now)
<Tesl> http://sourceforge.net/projects/jlst
* ajmitch has no time currently to test it, sorry
<jussi01> ajmitch: ah ok... Im unsure on how to go about changing the stuff that needs changing - what exactly do I need to change?
<Tesl> meh, tis okay
<Tesl> I'll test it on this other machine I have :] 
<ajmitch> jussi01: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<Tesl> <--- Way Too Lazy
<ajmitch> jussi01: it explains the rationale behind it
* jussi01 slaps not having an @ubuntu address.... :P
<ajmitch> jussi01: generally just renamed Maintainer to XSBC-Original-Maintainer, and set Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>                                                                                                                     
<ajmitch> jussi01: sorry :)
<ajmitch> otherwise it just won't build for us
<jussi01> ajmitch: sure, its all good :D
<jussi01> Ill just have to go and get me an @ubuntu address... :D
<ajmitch> yeah
<jussi01> so did I tell you Ive almost convinced my Uni to put a whole classroom on ubuntu? :D
<Tesl> heh, good man =)
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh 
<\sh> I'm really lucky...wine does compile on my gutsy pbuilder but not on our buildds :(
<jussi01> ajmitch: what about in the changelog? me or motu?
<ajmitch> you
<jussi01> ok:D
<Hobbsee> so you can be blamed when it all breaks
* ajmitch will let Hobbsee take over reviewing
<jussi01> hehe
* Hobbsee doesnt ahve enough power
* jussi01 steals Hobbsee's long pointy stick...
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: battery power? :)
<jussi01> and teases Hobbsee about it... ner ner ner ner...
* Hobbsee grabs it back.  mine
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes
<Hobbsee>      Battery 1: discharging, 4%, 00:09:53 remaining
<ajmitch> you see, we'll all see the shy & harmless Hobbsee at UDS
<Hobbsee>      Thermal 1: ok, 45.0 degrees C
<Hobbsee>   AC Adapter 1: off-line
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> will you now?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> all talk :)
<jussi01> lol
<Hobbsee> most of the time :P
<ajmitch> we know that you wouldn't hurt anyone :)
<imbrandon> crimsun: rsyncing releases.ubuntu.com now, should only take about an hour or so , i'll poke ya when its done
<crimsun> imbrandon: rockin'
<jussi01> yay imbrandon...
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: sure sure
* Hobbsee checks that the cellar door is locked
* ajmitch guesses Hobbsee will time out soon :)
<ajmitch> when are you leaving tomorrow?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: 3.50, iirc
<Hobbsee> pm
<ajmitch> not bad
<ajmitch> so you still have a few hours to panic on irc
<ajmitch> started packing yet?
<Hobbsee> nope
<jussi01> lucky feckers....
<crimsun> I really need to label these usb disk drives more clearly
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: oh well, you can probably start about lunchtime :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i will when i get home
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> no - i'll need to be at the airport then
<crimsun> only took me 1,5 hours to find the one containing ubuntu-feisty.git
<ajmitch> just throw a few clothes in a bag, grab the laptop & passport :)
<Hobbsee> heh
<imbrandon> ajmitch: sounds like my packaing
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, it's what I'll probably do on friday afternoon
<jussi01> passport? why all she needs to do is point the long pointy stick at em and they will let her through...
<ajmitch> terrist!
<jussi01> lol
<ajmitch> wb viviersf 
<viviersf> ta
<viviersf> got new rams ajmitch :)
<imbrandon> 49.93 M/s , not too bad hehe
<ajmitch> viviersf: heh
<crimsun> beats the pants off my 3.3 K/s
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> time to work some magic with dd & nc
<imbrandon> backup/restore ?
<imbrandon> moins anibal 
* Hobbsee drops out
<Hobbsee> bye!
<imbrandon> later Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> :)
<anibal> imbrandon, hello
<saispo> hi
<saispo> last week i push some packages on REVU, but no news about it, why ?
<Lutin> saispo: did you ask for a review ?
<saispo> yes
<Lutin> saispo: what package ?
<saispo> claws-mail
<saispo> 2.9.1
<ajmitch> back later
<Lutin> saispo: there's no package named claws-mail on REVU
<saispo> hmmmm
<saispo> i dput them
<Lutin> saispo: btw, claws-mail has been sitting in debian NEW for only 5 days. I might be wise to wait a bit and see it's uploaded to unstable so we can sync it
<Lutin> unless you have changes against the debian package
<saispo> Lutin: ok :/
<saispo> most of security hole are fixed in 2.9.1
<Lutin> ok
* arejay wonders when democracyplayer will be updated :/
<Lutin> dholbach: is there a particular point in adding an explicit B-D on libglib2.0-dev in clutter ? libgtk2.0-dev already depends on it iirc
<dholbach> Lutin: is it a versioned b-d?
<Lutin> dholbach: yep, >= 2.8
<dholbach> then it's specified like that in configure.ac
<dholbach> if it's the only thing that's different from debian, then just sync it
<dholbach> it's not worth to keep
<Lutin> ok
<arejay> any ideas why  libxul-dev is broken?
<RAOF> hey slomo
<slomo> hi RAOF 
<slomo> arejay: we don't use xul anyway... use firefox (firefox-dev)
<RAOF> slomo: So, a Tao update is that their build system is annoyingly broken.
<slomo> RAOF: so talk to them to fix it :)
<RAOF> I am.
<arejay> slomo: thanks :) trying todo a svn build of democracy 
<RAOF> arejay: It probably won't work, unless you've applied the patches from the previous Ubuntu package.
<arejay> RAOF: ah. indeed it will not work. where might i find the patches? launchpad?
<RAOF> slomo: I'm currently trying to help them fix their build-system-generator to output sane autotools
<RAOF> arejay: apt-get source democracyplayer?  debian/patches?
<RAOF> arejay: But there probably is somewhere you can just get the patches, though.
<RAOF> slomo: Basically, I just want to let you know that I *am* still touching Tao, but not to expect anything soon :)
<slomo> RAOF: ok, thanks :)
<arejay> RAOF: *shrug* no source package exist..
<RAOF> arejay: Do you have any deb-src lines for universe?
<RAOF> Because that source package *definitely* exists.
<arejay> RAOF: just added them -- forgot to check there.
* RAOF takes some time out to check whether his wireless card works with WPA2... nope :)
* siretart hugs slomo
<slomo> hi siretart :)
* slomo hugs siretart 
<siretart> :)
<imbrandon> sudo apt-get install php-myadmin
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> moins siretart 
<imbrandon> and slomo 
<slomo> hi imbrandon 
* arejay is thinking democracy dosnt like python 2.5 even after applying patches
<arejay> maybe something with boost
<RAOF> Actually, I think it's more likely to be a gtkembedmoz issue
<RAOF> But I got 0.9.5.3 running previously.
<arejay> doing some more hacking, a grep on python2.4 returned some hits even after applying the 2.5 python patch
<RAOF> Oh, the debian package buildsystem will replace some of the python2.4 shebangs with python2.5 (IIRC)
<siretart> huhu imbrandon 
<arejay> *crosss fingrs* its building now.
<arejay> RAOF: I see what you mean - its not doing any rendering..
* RAOF is not sure what he meant :)
<RAOF> You mean, there's nothing in the windows?  Or what?
<arejay> RAOF: ya nothing in the window
<RAOF> Oh, I've not seen that.
<RAOF> Mine would always just segfault :)
* arejay is now experinceing that
<arejay> TIMING   gtkAsyncMethod: <function initRenderers at 0x879df7c> took too long: 1.313
<arejay> DTV: Warning: Can't process cookie expiration: Wed, 02-May-07 09:41:22 GMT
<arejay> TIMING   gtkAsyncMethod: <function fileDuration at 0x87a202c> took too long: 1.210
<arejay> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<RAOF> That's my package :)
<RAOF> Do you have the LD_LIBRARY_PATH wrapper around it?
<arejay> RAOF: did you send any bug reports upstream? 
<RAOF> arejay: They're already there.  That's where I got the patches from
<arejay> TIMING   gtkAsyncMethod: <function initRenderers at 0x879df7c> took too long: 1.313
<arejay> DTV: Warning: Can't process cookie expiration: Wed, 02-May-07 09:41:22 GMT
<arejay> TIMING   gtkAsyncMethod: <function fileDuration at 0x87a202c> took too long: 1.210
<arejay> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<arejay> oops - sorry
<arejay> http://pastebin.ca/467092
<RAOF> arejay: Try with "LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/firefox ./democracyplayer"
<arejay> RAOF: it worked!
* arejay tests stablity
<arejay> uh wait a min..
<arejay> it launched 0.9.22
<arejay> forgot that was still installed...
<RAOF> That seems... odd.
<RAOF> Ah, you missed the "./" :)
<arejay> RAOF: nope - for some reason it launches the one in /usr/bin
<RAOF> That's really odd.  Hm.  
<arejay> I'm uninstalling it now.. 
<arejay> ok it runs with "LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/firefox ./run.sh
<arejay> sweet sound works now in 0.9.5 :)
<RAOF> I won't be updating the Universe package until python-support 0.6 is merged from sid, but it's good to know that the patches still apply :)
<RAOF> Sound has *always* worked for me.
<arejay> RAOF: did'nt for me in the 0.9.22 package :)
<arejay> video was always weird like it floated above content 
<arejay> (beryl user here)
<arejay> RAOF: anywho thank's for the help :) I'm off to watch some diggnation
<Nafallo> imbrandon: jabber @ ubuntuwire down or something?
<imbrandon> Nafallo: shouldent be, lemme check
<imbrandon> ( i'm am working on the server though so i might have oopsd
<imbrandon> )
<Nafallo> I'll try to debug my side :-)
<imbrandon> Nafallo: yea it was my bad, i did oops
<imbrandon> its starting the daemon now, give it a sec
<Nafallo> oki, thanks
<imbrandon> soory bout that, been working on all the servers most of the night heh
<imbrandon> trying to upgrade some hardware and add some redundancy
<imbrandon> for most services
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon, come to UDS.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: wish i could gurl
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: wish harder, and come.
<imbrandon> but not this time, i'll have to get the wrong end of your stick in Boston :)
<Hobbsee> i wont be there
<Hobbsee> i expect
<imbrandon> sure you will :) shush
<Nafallo> imbrandon: that's better. thanks :-)
<imbrandon> Nafallo: np, sorry bout that
<imbrandon> Nafallo: btw i've added the aim and msn transports to ubuntuwire.com jabber also
<imbrandon> not quite sure how you would use them as a normal use yet 100%
<imbrandon> user*
<imbrandon> but i /think/ you can add like someone\n40msn.com@msn.ubuntuwire.com to you buddy list and have it work
<imbrandon> but thats not tested yet
<Nafallo> imbrandon: kewl, but I already use MSN from a Swedish universe through my other jabberaccount :-)
<Nafallo> s/universe/university/
<Nafallo> dooh!
<tepsipakki> Nafallo: Swedish universe sounds.. frightening ;)
<Nafallo> tepsipakki: hehe :-)=
<ajmitch> hi
<Lutin> hi ajmitch 
<StevenK> ajmitch: All packed?
<ajmitch> hah!
<StevenK> Heh
<ajmitch> you assume I've started
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
<StevenK> Should I ask if the clothes you're taking are in the washing machine, or is that a bad question? :-)
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee 
<ajmitch> would "I just put them in there 3 minutes ago" be an adequate answer? :)
<StevenK> Ha!
<ajmitch> I don't leave until friday night, however
<StevenK> Ah
<StevenK> Do you end up going via Sydney?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> why?
<StevenK> I'm just wondering.
<ajmitch> air NZ flies to london via asia or the US
<StevenK> The US seems to be a little out of the way for London. :-)
<StevenK> Then again, depends which way they fly.
<ajmitch> well NZ & london are almost opposite on the globe
* ajmitch is going via hong kong though
<ajmitch> not bad, copying the stuff off the laptop, ~93Mbps
<StevenK> Heh
<ajmitch> fairly good for a 100Mbps network
<ajmitch> dd | nc ftw
<StevenK> ajmitch: You're just dd'ing the whole partition?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> grab a snapshot
<StevenK> That's one way to back up data, I suppose.
<ajmitch> it's an LVM pv anyway, so I can just activate it on here
<StevenK> Ah
<StevenK> LVM on your laptop? Masochistic, much?
<ajmitch> that's not masochistic
<ajmitch> it runs fine
<ajmitch> besides, I was using the spare LVM space for xen & other things
<ajmitch> nice, 100GB laptop drive compressed down to 49GB
<zul> stop downloading porn and you wouldnt have that problem
<TheMuso> Is anybody able to explain why a package builds fine in my pbuilder, get FTBFS on the same arch on the build servers?
<StevenK> What's the failure on the buildds?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Can't find a package with a particular version. pkg-config >= 0.8 is needed, and 0.21 is installed, yet it says can't find it. Yet in pbuilder, it finds it with no problems.
* TheMuso is going to try on aurora to see what happens...
<TheMuso> wow mirror.imbrandon.com seems broken or something.
<StevenK> Oh?
<TheMuso> tried running an update and it failed to fetch the release gpg files and other bits I think.
<TheMuso> connection refused...
<StevenK> Seems like imbrandon is going more for denial of service as opposed to redunant services.
<TheMuso> heh
<davromaniak> slomo, are you here ??
<slomo> davromaniak: yes
<davromaniak> I know you have some knowledge in MONO language, so could you review my youtranslate package please ??
<davromaniak> here is the link : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4872
<davromaniak> mr_pouit, reviewed it, but it's better if somebody confident with mono reviews it
<slomo> davromaniak: why exactly did you regenerate the tarball? and are you sure you don't need libgtk2.0-cil in build depends?
<TheMuso> hmm. Ok mirror.imbrandon.com is up again.
<davromaniak> slomo, let me remember
<slomo> davromaniak: and use dh_clideps -d to have duplicates removed
<dharrigan> Hello everyone. Anyone perhaps help me sort out the BADSIG problem I'm having when I do an update? I've created and signed a package, uploaded it, added to the root's keychain but update gives me a BADSIG.
<dharrigan> .
<davromaniak> I regenerate the tarball in order to add COPYING.lib, some files in the program have a different licence
<slomo> davromaniak: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/youtranslate-0704221615/youtranslate-1.1.9/yTTrayLib.cs is MIT X11 licensed normally... anyway, is there any file that is GPL or everything LGPL?
<davromaniak> for libgtk2.0-cil, I'm sure, I builded it without any error
<slomo> with pbu8ilder?
<davromaniak> yes
<slomo> weird
<dharrigan> when I run gpg --verify on the dsc it says a good sig
<slomo> davromaniak: sounds impossible :)
<davromaniak> ah ?
<davromaniak> so, it's better if I add it
<slomo> one moment
<davromaniak> ok
<slomo> you can remove the configure stuff from debian/rules, it does nothing anyway :)
<davromaniak> ok
<dharrigan> oh, but running gpg --verify Release.gpg Release gives me a badsig
<slomo> davromaniak: oh no... hm, you build depend on gtk-sharp... never ever do that, just depend on libgtk2.0-cil or whatever package is needed for your package... apart from that, gtk-sharp is the old 1.0 version and will be removed soonish, better get it ported to gtk#2
<davromaniak> ok
<slomo> davromaniak: you need libglade2.0-cil and libgtk2.0-cil instead of gtk-sharp
<davromaniak> ok
<slomo> davromaniak: and then replace in PKG_REFERENCES in  Makefile.youtranslate everything with gtk-sharp-2.0 and glade-sharp-2.0
<slomo> then it should be fine
<davromaniak> where ?? PKG_REFERENCES ??
<davromaniak> in Makefile.youtranslate ?,
<slomo> yes
<davromaniak> ok
<slomo> hm, then you need to add a dllmap for youtranslate.exe
<slomo> gdk-x11-2.0 needs to be mapped to libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0
<davromaniak> how I do this ?
<slomo> see http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ch-mono.html#s4.2
<davromaniak> ok
<TheMuso> aw/c
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: ?
<slomo> davromaniak: in debian/copyright copy the upstream copyright line in there... i.e. "Copyright (C) 2006 Salvatore Scarciglia <laas.mono@gmail.com>"
<davromaniak> copy where ?
<slomo> behind "Copyright: " :)
<slomo> it's partially there already
<davromaniak> ah
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Heya!
<davromaniak> sorry, my brain is not fully operational today, ;)
<slomo> davromaniak: everything else is good... good work :)
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso!
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I believe you fly out tomorrow. Is that correct?
<davromaniak> ok, for the .config file, what is his name ??
<slomo> davromaniak: youtranslate.exe.config
<slomo> in the same directory as youtranslate.exe
<davromaniak> ok
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yep!
<slomo> davromaniak: oh... another thing... make the package "Architecture: all" in debian/control
<slomo> davromaniak: it's architecture independent
<davromaniak> ok
<davromaniak> another thing, in the rules file, what do I need to erase ??
<davromaniak> the configure thing
<davromaniak> if I erase that : configure: configure-stamp
<davromaniak> configure-stamp:
<davromaniak> 	dh_testdir
<davromaniak> 	# Add here commands to configure the package.
<davromaniak> 	touch configure-stamp
<davromaniak> this will work ?
<davromaniak> or debhelper will be grumpy ?
<slomo> davromaniak: i have to leave now, try it or let's talk about it later today ;)
<slomo> bbl
<davromaniak> ok, thanks for the help
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: SO when does the summit kick off?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: sunday, i think
<TheMuso> Cool.
<TheMuso> Must be a long trip if you are leaving tomorrow.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: ubucon first
<TheMuso> ah
<dharrigan> Everyone. Fixed my badsig problem.
<StevenK> dharrigan: What was it?
* TheMuso has just thrown a really tough one to the devs. Fun watching this sorta stuff unfold sometimes.
<dharrigan> 2 things. One, the sig file was out-of-date from the Release file. I wasn't generating it correctly (in sequence).
<dharrigan> second, I wasn't generating a Sources file (I had the compressed versions). When I told apt-ftparchive to also generate a Soruces, thigns worked.
* dharrigan thinks it's neat that I can release signed packages :)
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> not again...
<dharrigan> dholbach: ping?
<arejay> anyone know what provides nsIServiceManagerUtils.h ?
<arejay> I *think* xpcom..
<dholbach> dharrigan: pong
<Hobbsee> arejay: tried packages.ubuntu.com for it yet?
<arejay> Hobbsee: ya - no avail.
<TheMuso> arejay: Try apt-file.
<arejay> Hobbsee: perhaps python-xpcom
<arejay> TheMuso: I get no results.. apt-file search  nsIServiceManagerUtils.h (assuming i'am using it correctly)
<Hobbsee> it's probably not in ubuntu then..
<StevenK> Or Debian.
<StevenK> packages.debian.org can't find it either.
* arejay shoots foot
<jellyfish2002> anyone seen bddebian?
<Hobbsee> jellyfish2002: not today.  he should come on in the next while, though
<Hobbsee> hi pirast 
<jellyfish2002> okie thx
<pirast> hobbsee, hi
* Hobbsee always ends up thinking of piranas when you come in...
* Q-FUNK thinks of pies instead
<\sh> hgmmm does anyone know what this error means?
<\sh> In file included from external.cpp:46:
<\sh> /usr/include/avifile-0.7/creators.h:4:2: warning: #warning Use #include "avm_creators.h" instead
<\sh> ../src/drip.h:198: error: previous declaration of 'drip_config Config' with 'C++' linkage
<\sh> external.cpp:52: error: conflicts with new declaration with 'C' linkage
<\sh> argl
<pirast> hobbsee, lol ^^
<StevenK> \sh: Yes.
<StevenK> \sh: 1. external.cpp should reference "avm_creators.h" instead.
<\sh> StevenK, it just came to me, I think, when I read the paste now ;)
<StevenK> \sh: Okay. :-)
<StevenK> \sh: I was planning on saying, "Oooooh, you want me to tell you..." :-)
<\sh> StevenK, created the patch right now, but thanks :)
<StevenK> \sh: Pastebin it? I'm curious.
<\sh> StevenK, sometimes I can't see the tree because of the forrest around ;)
<StevenK> Hah
<\sh> StevenK, s/#include "creators.h"/#include "avm_creators.h"/
<\sh> in encoder/external.cpp 
<\sh> trying to build it now
<StevenK> \sh: Ahhh, there is more than one error. :-)
<\sh> StevenK, surely I'm just cratching 
<StevenK> \sh: Compare src/drip.h, line 198 or so with external.cpp, around line 52. I think you'll find conflicting definitions.
<\sh> I think I'm doing too many things at the same time ;)
<\sh> massupdating servers...
<\sh> and merging packages
<shawarma> TheMuso: I was just looking at that ardour build. Why did you add an epoch?
<TheMuso> shawarma: Debian did that.
<TheMuso> When they were creating several packages during beta/rc, for demudi, they screwed up the versioning.
<shawarma> TheMuso: Oh.
<shawarma> I just looked at the source overview page on lp and it wasn't making a lot of sense.
<TheMuso> I can understand.
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<TheMuso> When I uploaded, I actually made sure to add all changes since the rpevious version in the .changes file.
<TheMuso> for that very reason, explanation of why it happened. :)
<shawarma> TheMuso: You didn't figure it out, did you? The FTBFS?
<TheMuso> shawarma: No.
<\sh> StevenK, how would you fix the problem with drip.h/external.cpp? commenting in drip.h's line?
<StevenK> \sh: I'd need to see the code.
<\sh> StevenK, let me try something ;:)
<StevenK> \sh: Add learn C++ to your todo list. :-)
<TheMuso> shawarma: The problem of course, is that the build servers use a different chroot system to pbuilder.
<TheMuso> So unless I had a similar setup to test with, I can't work it out, as it works in pbuilder.
<\sh> StevenK, well, the problem is more the change in our toolchain ;)
<StevenK> TheMuso: It's sbuild, which you can set up if you're sufficently masochistic.
<TheMuso> StevenK: hmmm ok.
<shawarma> TheMuso: True.
<StevenK> TheMuso: For sufficently, read "very very"
<TheMuso> StevenK: How difficult is that to set up?
<TheMuso> riiiiiiiiight
<StevenK> I suspect that answers your question. :-)
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<TheMuso> ooooouch. Sparc has a looooooong build list.
<StevenK> One of them is down.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Ah.
<StevenK> Was, I should say.
<xxxxx1> hi all.
<Adri2000> is there a date for the next motu meeting?
<imbrandon> StevenK: ping
<StevenK> Pong
<imbrandon> " tar -zxvf *.tar " hates me
<imbrandon> thinks i want to untar to another tar
<imbrandon> help pwease
<StevenK> for i in *.tar ; do tar zxvf $i ; done
<StevenK> ?
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> you rock
<StevenK> No, I just happen to know shell scripting. :-P
<imbrandon> lol
<\sh> StevenK, fixed drip
<StevenK> \sh: Nice!
<\sh> uploaded
<jellyfish2002> so quiet?
<elkbuntu> grrr... specs/blueprints proposed to uds still havent been triaged :-/
<geser> Adri2000: the next motu meeting will be sometime after UDS
<Adri2000> geser: ok, it was because I was updating wiki.u.c/MOTU, I just wrote "No date yet"
<Adri2000> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi Adri2000
<Adri2000> bddebian: http://adrishost.homeip.net/DaD/merges/librep/librep_0.17+svn20070119-2ubuntu1.patch - this patch fixes FTBFS right?
<bddebian> Is that the stack direction one?
<Adri2000> yes
<bddebian> Yeah on PPC and ia64 but I was hoping someone with PPC or ia64 would make sure it's still necessary first
<Adri2000> bddebian: we have a ppc build machine, you know? ;)
<bddebian> Adri2000: I know but I have never used/asked about any of them.  I need to
<Adri2000> bddebian: if you have an ssh key in LP, it should work
<geser> Adri2000: if you mean intrepid.ubuntuwire.com it has hardware problems
<ScottK-laptop> Good morning everyone.
<Adri2000> geser: arg :(
<Adri2000> hi ScottK-laptop
<ScottK-laptop> Is there a way to get a rebuild on a package that FTBFS and all that appears to be needed is anther build attempt for Feisty?
<bddebian> Heya ScottK-laptop
<ScottK-laptop> The build in question is https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/264902 and it looks to me like a build system error, not the package.  The same package built for Gutsy.
<bddebian> ScottK-laptop: Ask for a throwback or add a build1 version
<ScottK-laptop> heya bddebian.
<ScottK-laptop> What's the process for a throwback?  Bug pitti on IRC?
<geser> ask an build admin (Mithrandir) for a give-back
<ScottK-laptop> geser: Thanks.
<ScottK-laptop> geser: Would you mind taking a look at that build log and see if you agree that a give-back should be all that's required?
<bddebian> throwback.. Hehe yeah give-back.. Sheesh
<bddebian> Heya geser
<ScottK-laptop> During dependency checking it says: libtest-harness-perl: already installed (=*=PROVIDED=*= >= 2.62 is satisfied)
<persia> ScottK: Its Wednesday: bug seb128 (See mail to ubuntu-devel-announce on 20th Feb).
<ScottK-laptop> persia: Thanks.
<Adri2000> persia: archive admin != buildd admin
<Adri2000> I don't think seb128 is a buildd admin
<persia> Adri2000: Ah, thanks.  ScottK: Ignore my previous.
<slomo> siretart: ping?
<ScottK-laptop> OK.
<ScottK-laptop> But then the reason for the FTBFS is: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libtest-harness-perl (>= 2.62)
<ScottK-laptop> Seems very odd to me.
<ScottK-laptop> persia: Still looking for an SRU bug?
<geser> perl-modules provides libtest-harness-perl
<persia> ScottK: Sure.  You have one?
<geser> that's why is it reported as provided
<ScottK-laptop> geser: Then why the unment build depends?
<geser> it thinks it's installed
<geser> but they the version check fails
<geser> provides are unversioned
<ScottK-laptop> Maybe the version was to low when it was attempted.  I look in LP and the version is high enough now.
* ScottK-laptop still can't type today.
<ScottK-laptop> Sounds like a good rationale for a give-back then?
<geser> buildd installs all needed depends and is happy with perl-modules providing libtest-harness-perl
<ScottK-laptop> persia: There was a CVE bug reported yesterday on one of the web log tools yesterday.  I mentioned it here.  You might look in the IRC log or I can find it for you after I get back to my desk.
<geser> and calls then dpkg-buildpackage which checks the build-deps again and is unhappy about the missing libtest-harness-perl
<geser> as it is versioned perl-modules can't satisfy it
<geser> that's how I understand it
<geser> you should talk to a build admin about it
<StevenK> Or change the Build-Depends
<geser> a simple give-back won't do it
<StevenK> perl-modules | libtest-harness-perl ()
<ScottK-laptop> geser: The same package built for gutsy?
<ScottK-laptop> StevenK: It's not a problem in gutsy, just FTBFS in Feisty.  
<geser> StevenK: how? I assume the version is important else it wouldn't be versioned
<ScottK-laptop> The thing is the version in Feisty IS sufficient: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libtest-harness-perl
<geser> ScottK-laptop: it doesn't build in gutsy either
<geser> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/libmail-box-perl/+builds?build_state=all
<ScottK-laptop> Sure enough.
<ScottK-laptop> Same issue.
* ScottK-laptop has a theory...
<ScottK-laptop> libtest-harness-perl is new as a separate source package.
<sharms> Wow
<geser> Hi bddebian (overlooked you highlight)
<sharms> my blogging power knows no bounds
<ScottK-laptop> So I think what StevenK said makes perfect sense now.
<sharms> AMD wants to talk to me about their drivers for ATI cards
<bddebian> geser: It's ok.. *sniff sniff* :'-(
<geser> libtest-harness-perl is a seperate package and provided by perl-modules
<geser> bddebian: it wouldn't happen again
<ScottK-laptop> OK, then since 2.64 > 2.62, why the unmet depends?
<bddebian> geser: :-)
<geser> because libtest-harness-perl isn't installed at all
<geser> the buildd believes perl-modules is enough but dpkg-buildpackage has an other option
<ScottK-laptop> I see.
<ScottK-laptop> Is that a buildd problem or a packaging problem then?
<geser> the question is if it really needs libtest-harness-perl 2.64 or if it is also happy with libtest-harness-perl from perl-modules
<imbrandon> 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
<imbrandon> ( just for the irc logs ) 
* imbrandon stops
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  I would have thought the question is why does buildd think libtest-harness-perl is there and dpkg-buildpackage has another opinion.
<geser> I'd say it's a buildd bug as provides can't be versioned (if nothing has changed any my analysis is correct)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: If Mithrandir does it, it must be OK.
<ScottK-laptop> geser: Then I guess the answer is still go talk to Mithrandir about it.
<geser> yes
<ScottK-laptop> geser: Thanks for your help.  I'll go do that.
<geser> he should know more about it than me
<sharms> Can anyone tell me what problems are bugging you with the current fglrx driver?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: :)
<imbrandon> sharms: thats its binary ?
* Fujitsu watches the MPAA take on the whole internet.
<sharms> imbrandon: looking for more technical problems
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: i got a blog post for the recordbooks comming ... :)
<sharms> uh oh, should I get my flame suit on?
<siretart> slomo: pong
<slomo> siretart: any idea what should be done about seahorse? seahorse handles it gracely (after removing the conflict) now but gpg-agent fails at least for me... and if both are installed and one of them is in Xsession.d the user has absolutely no choice which one to use, the first from Xsession.d will always be used
<s-ndh-c> hey ppl
<s-ndh-c> id like to help ya fixing mono bugs in ubuntu, who is the one i should be talking to?
<bddebian> s-ndh-c: Just get fixing :-)
<slomo> s-ndh-c: hi... which bugs in specific? but in general just start to do it :) you could also help getting packages merged with debian though if you want ;)
<s-ndh-c> xsp2 for example its just a litle packaging bug, the preinst script checks for the wrong initscript so it
<s-ndh-c> -so it
<s-ndh-c> :)
<s-ndh-c> but i will have a look at the mono related bugs and see what i can do
<slomo> s-ndh-c: cool :) for xsp, did you check whether it's already fixed in debian?
<s-ndh-c> slomo: no i didnt
<s-ndh-c> will do that later when iam at home, i just came here to ask where i could lend you a helping hand
<s-ndh-c> :)
<siretart> slomo: hm. hoestly, I don't think that either of the two should be started via Xsession.d. Or both Xsession.d scripts check some configuration in users home if the user wants that agent started at all
<siretart> slomo: it must be somehome user dependent, else it won't work in multi user environments where one user wants seahorse and the other one gpg-agent
<siretart> slomo: those environments are not uncommon. think of LTSP or sunray environments
<alg> Hi, guys. I have a question regarding the packaging of a Java application for upload. Can I get some assistance here?
<slomo> siretart: yep... sure. but i can't think of anything that doesn't require manual configuration by the user (well, except for special cases, i.e. gnome-session starting it automatically if available)
<siretart> slomo: maybe this checking can be restricted to the case that both agents are actually installed. but that's even more surprising that installing a package breaks another one
<siretart> slomo: I do think that you need to take the user configuration into account
<siretart> I mean: both seahorse and gpg-agent
<alg> hey, gurus! :) any help?
<alg> The problem is that the application runs only on Sun JRE (not GCJ). How do I correctly package it in this case? I end up with no dependencies, as this JRE is not in the repository as far as I know. So, do I have to include some note in the description?
<s-ndh-c> i think in feisty its included sun-java5-jre and sund-java6-jre
<s-ndh-c> atleast packages.ubuntu.com lists those
<alg> oh really. let me check
<xxxxx1> sun-java6... too
<s-ndh-c> but in older releasese it isnt
<alg> because I was building a package on the previous version of Ubuntu
<alg> right
<xxxxx1> edgy?
<s-ndh-c> or am i wrong?
<alg> I guess, even on Breezy
<xxxxx1> alg: edgy have java6 too
<s-ndh-c> yeah its in edgy-backports
<alg> it's funny. I was always building sun-java myself from bin with java-package :)
<alg> now I can see the official!
<s-ndh-c> alg: hehe same here
<alg> xxxxx1, s-ndh-c: very nice. Thanks guys for quick and right pointers!
<persia> Anyone have a bit of time to help me with a library transition?
<dholbach> persia: what kind of transition?
<stgraber> gpocentek: Just reuploaded miniracer on REVU, the FTBFS was caused by GCC, the package build just fine with the newest. The .desktop isn't in the data package (from what I've checked) and I've changed the Dependency/Recommends.
<bddebian> Many busy place lately :-)
<stgraber> btw, good afternoon everyone
<bddebian> Hello stgraber
<persia> dholbach: The most recent version of libflac in gutsy has a binary libflac++5 instead of libflac++5c2.  There are 6 packages not scheduled for merging that depend on libflac++5c2.  5 of them are simple rebuilds (-build1), and one needs a patch due to another build-dep change.  Where I need help is with a template for the -build1 comment, and some uploads (once I have made all the debdiffs).
<stgraber> Some of you already in Spain ?
<dholbach> persia: just write something like "rebuild to depend on libflac++5 instead of libflac++5c2"
<dholbach> that's good enough
<dholbach> if you need to get uploads done, just ping me
<persia> dholbach: Thanks.  I'll put all the debdiffs in a bug.  May I pijng you when I'm done for uploads?
<dholbach> sure
<persia> dholbach: I'm a slow typist :).  Thanks.
<dholbach> np
<bddebian> persia: You are an animal man :)
<persia> bddebian: I fail entirely to follow your footsteps, but I'm learning to climb over the sides :)
<bddebian> persia: pfft, I'm nobody :-)
<persia> bddebian: Bah.  You uploaded all my patches for Dapper.
<bddebian> Well I didn't say I wasn't a good schlub :-)
<ScottK-laptop> Thanks for all the help.  See you all later.
<shawarma> Lutin, Adri2000: Something is wrong with http://adrishost.homeip.net/DaD/merges/jokosher/REPORT (see the base version)
<persia> StevenK: Thanks for the upload.
<Adri2000> shawarma: yep, it's because there is not debian version in http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/j/jokosher/jokosher_0.2-0ubuntu5/changelog, so this package is not based on any debian version
<Adri2000> there is no*
<bddebian> persia: See, you don't even need me for uploads anymore :'-(   ;-P
<persia> bddebian: I've a bunch pending.  Do you want to upload something?
<bddebian> Actually I'm busy at work atm :-(  But I probably can later
<shawarma> Adri2000: Makes sense. Still, it breaks grab-merge.sh (set -e).
<persia> bddebian: No worries.  I'm not in a rush about anything (all the freezes are ages away).
<tuxmaniac> heya
<shawarma> slomo: I see you're the debian maintainer for last-exit now. I take it can just be synced?
<slomo> shawarma: yes
<shawarma> slomo: Cool. I'll file the request.
<slomo> shawarma: same for tomboy iirc, seahorse needs a single-line change
<jussi01> Hello Motu's!!
<bddebian> Heya jussi01
<jussi01> heya bddebian
<jussi01> bddebian: any chance you could reveiw my package if you have a moment?? I really want to get it uploaded as its my first... :D
<jussi01> bddebian: link is http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4929
<bddebian> jussi01: Not right now but probably in a little bit, sure
<jussi01> bddebian: thanks very much
<imbrandon> lets see, m4a , mp3 , vorbis , wav , what am i missing
<bddebian> wmv, aac, :)
<bddebian> mov
<imbrandon> nah only audio, and i have aac 
<imbrandon> hrm
<bddebian> Oh, audio
<imbrandon> flac maybe
<persia> imbrandon: au? flac?
<bddebian> ra? :-)
<imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/magic-number/   <--- my time waster for today
<yeti> tell me if this is the wrong place to ask, but the #ubuntu people didn't know anything about it, so i'd like to try it here: is it possible to run feisty without evms/lvm/device-mapper?
<imbrandon> yeti: yes
<yeti> imbrandon: great, is there anything specific i have to keep in mind? or just remove the services from runlevel?
<imbrandon> as long as you dont have any lvm devices you should be ok
<yeti> you see, on edgy, my only HDD was /dev/hda, i don't really understand where feisty "maps" it to /dev/sda or /dev/mapper/sda. is that on kernel level already
<yeti> ?
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> never seen that
<arejay> part of the new kernel right?
<arejay> didn't they change some ide stuff/
<nixternal> when is Ubuntu getting ext3cow?
<yeti> does ubuntu keep a broken-out dir with their kernel patches somewhere?
<imbrandon> nixternal: when you package it
<imbrandon> yeti: patches.ubuntu.com
<s-ndh-c> slomo: i looked at the debian package and it checks for the wrong initscript too, and there is no bug filed for that atleast i didnt see one
<s-ndh-c> :)
<s-ndh-c> for xsp2 that is
<zul_> imbrandon: you have too much times on your hands
<imbrandon> zul_: hehe
<yeti> hm, no severe kernel code changes in that kernel-package patch on patches.ubuntu.com. what is that one against? stock debian kernel? vanilla?
<geser> kernel-package was used to build kernels
<geser> if you look for the source code of the kernel itself it's in a git(?) repository
<jdong> yes....
<jdong> UBuntu kernel is in git
<yeti> geser: i'm mainly interested in the patches themselves, not the final patched source
<jdong> use git to compare the Ubuntu branch with the linus branch
<jdong> from that you can build a list of changesets that comprise your split-out patches
<jdong> which... will be unwieldly large :D
<imbrandon> hrm how can i split a filename cmd line
<nixternal> imbrandon: that is kernel stuff, /me no messy messy ;)
<imbrandon> cut seems to want a file
<nixternal> what is the filename to split?
<imbrandon> blah.txt ( i want blah )
<nixternal> do you want to do it with a small script or in one simple pass?
<imbrandon> one pass if possible
<persia> imbrandon: basename
<nixternal> yup
<imbrandon> hrm seems broken
<nixternal> basename blah.txt .txt
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$ basename man1.wav
<imbrandon> man1.wav
<imbrandon> ahh
<persia> imbrandon: echo `basename blah.txt .txt`
<imbrandon> thanks
<jdong> imbrandon: you'd probably want to do "`basename "blah.txt" .txt`"
<jdong> that at least saves you from some wacky characters
* jdong uses that a lot in his video encoder scripts
<imbrandon> jdong: :)
<imbrandon> for i in *.ogg ; do ogg123 $i -d au -f `basename "$i" ".ogg"`.au ; done     
<imbrandon> shhhh :)
<jdong> hehe
<imbrandon> mischeif i tell you http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/magic-number/
<jdong> LOL
<persia> imbrandon: Wouldn't you want to start with .wav to make .au?  .au is low quality, but not lossy (I think).
<jdong> imbrandon: http://web.mit.edu/jdong/www/misc/whatdoesthisdo.jpg
<imbrandon> persia: it dosent really matter its all just text-to-speach anyhow
<imbrandon> more of a joke really
<imbrandon> jdong: ncie
<imbrandon> err nice
<s-ndh-c> slomo: and there is another problem both mono-xsp and mono-xsp2 initscript seem to use >& /dev/null do redirect output and this seems bash specific ie. it gives an error if the shell is dash
<jdong> hehe, pitti isn't happy about the size of that debdiff
<jdong> as unbelievable as it is, there are crash reports and data loss reports around for each of the patches I separated out......
<imbrandon> jdong: i'm guessing that barcode us UPC-9 or w/e
<jdong> imbrandon: yep :D
<s-ndh-c> slomo: maybe changing the shebang to bash would be an option as bash seems to be preinstalled anyways
<jdong> yay bashism
* jdong wonders if squashfs can compress down ut2004 any better.....
<s-ndh-c> :)
<jdong> I love a game or two but the amount of space they take up is obscene
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> 7 formats 
<imbrandon> anymore ?
<jdong> lol look through an unlocked ffmpeg or mplayer for random formats it can encode to? :D
<jdong> you'r missing wma....
<jdong> can ffmpeg do wma?
<imbrandon> dunno
<imbrandon> can it do ra ?
<jussi01> bddebian: it seems you reveiwed the wrong upload...:( the manpages are fixed in the latest upload (may 2nd)
<jdong> .me heads onto ffmpeg
<jdong> imbrandon: http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/ffmpeg-doc.html#SEC25
<jdong> imbrandon: looks like you can still do a few more via a medibuntu'ed ffmpeg :D
<bddebian> jussi01: Grr, OK
<jussi01> bddebian: so link is: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4991
<persia> Grumble, hydrogen never got built during the feisty cycle, and was FTBFS on release.
<xxxxx1> :/
<ScottK> Lutin, Adri2000: klamav does not show up on DaD.  I assume this is because we
<ScottK> ...
<crimsun> persia: SRU it.
<ScottK> we've never gotten it from Debian.  I was wondering if it could be added as in theory we could get it from them.
<ScottK> Just someone would have to do a merge....
<persia> crimsun: Once I get a working build, I'll try.
<Adri2000> ScottK: it doesn't show up on DaD because debian version < ubuntu version
<ScottK> hmmm
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> Adri2000: Yep.  That's it.  Sorry for the noise.
<shawarma> Adri2000: Same is true for tomboy. It's not there, but their version is newer, I think.
<persia> dholbach: Bug #111797
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111797 in rezound "libflac++5c2 to libflac++5 transition" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111797
<shawarma> Adri2000: They got 0.6.3-1, we got  0.6.3-0ubuntu1.
<Adri2000> shawarma: tomboy is main
<shawarma> Adri2000: Ah, it's only universe?
<shawarma> Adri2000: I've been checking that for every package. :-)
<shawarma> Adri2000: Sorry for the noise then.
* shawarma rushes out the door
<Adri2000> shawarma: yes, it's written on the top of the page ;) but the current code should support main if we want it
<Lutin> jdong: < jdong> imbrandon: looks like you can still do a few more via a medibuntu'ed ffmpeg :D  <== what for ?
<jdong> Lutin: imbrandon is being a hippie rebel by encoding a speech readout of the AACS key to as many codecs as he can :)
<Lutin> jdong: :)
<jdong> imbrandon: you need to put the key in the directory name and filename of everything... so when you get your takedown notice and post it up, they have to issue a takedown notice FOR the takedown notice :D
<persia> jdong: That's actualy a good idea, as if one doesn't comply, the data becomes part of the public record in the ensuing court action.  Needs a volunteer though.
<ScottK> persia: The bug I mentioned earlier is https://launchpad.net/bugs/111620 - need to see if any of those CVEs apply to Feisty.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111620 in wordpress "Remote Exploits: multiple vulnerabilities" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.  I've another on my plate now, but I'll take a look at that when I have a chance.
<ScottK> OK.  I've got another when you want it too.
<jdong> persia: lol I'm sure some rebel somewhere already did that
<jdong> especially since a LOT of blog systems put the title of the page in the URL
<persia> ScottK: Well, I do mean to get back to wx2.4 at some point :)
<ScottK> You wanted SUR practice ;-)
<ScottK> err SRU
<jdong> In Soviet Russia, SRU practice YOU
<persia> ScottK: Yep.  I've two now, which should cement the process in my head.
<jdong> hah I should stop aliasing corny jokes
<dholbach> persia: getting sources
<persia> dholbach: Thanks.  Hydrogen will be a while (docbook recording and DTD changes).
<dholbach> np
<dholbach> persia: kwave:
<dholbach> dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<dholbach> debuild: fatal error at line 1239:
<dholbach> dpkg-source -b kwave-0.7.7 failed
<dholbach> daniel@bert:~$ 
<persia> dholbach: Ah - let me respin those.  Sorry :(
<dholbach> I'll be off in a bit
<dholbach> i'm sure you'll find somebody else to do the other uploads
<dholbach> if not, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<persia> dholbach: k3b and kid3 are fine.  I'll upload the others in a bit.
<persia> Anyone feel like uploading the libflac++ transition?
<persia> Oops - it's just kwave.
<imbrandon> jdong: http://www.imbrandon.com/index.php/2007/05/02/sudo-apt-get-install-hd-dvd_playback/
<imbrandon> ( its in the dir name now too )
<jdong> LOL
<persia> ls
<sharms> imbrandon: awesome
<imbrandon> jdong: ( and anyone else that wants ) help me out with a digg or 3 http://digg.com/tech_news/HD_DVD_Code_Converted_to_Audio_in_your_language
<jdong> imbrandon: LOL
<imbrandon> :)
<psusi> what happens when two packages contain the same file?  doesn't that make dpkg choke when trying to install the second package?
<bddebian> yes
<DktrKranz> it complains
<persia> I'm getting a docbook error that "_" is an invalid character in some contexts, for utf8 source files.  The same files in latin1 don't generate an error. The UTF8 was generated with iconv.   Could someone nudge me in the right direction?
<psusi> so how should this be resolved?  I upgraded my home machine last night to feisty and had trouble because two packages contained libaudio.so
<psusi> so I had to remove one
<jdong> it's a bug in the two packages
<jdong> you can force it manually via dpkg --force-overwrite
<jdong> but it is a bug in the packaging of one, the other, or both
<jdong> and should be filed as such
<psusi> ok... I'll file a bug then... now wasn't there a way to set it up so that it is ok to have the same file in both?
<s-ndh-c> why is it in both packages if its not a different version or something
<s-ndh-c> psusi: how would that work without overwriting?
<psusi> beats me.... that's why I'm asking
<psusi> but I know there is something in there because some packages provide different alternative implementations and dpkg doesn't complain
<jdong> alternatives are different
<jdong> I don't know how they're done
<psusi> now damnit... packages.ubuntu.com can't search for packages that contain a given file name with wild cards in it?
<persia> psusi: apt-file
<psusi> don't have the system in front of me
<psusi> and I have no apt-file command anyhow on another system here
<s-ndh-c> slomo: the bashism thing is resolved in debian unstable/testing`s mono-xsp(1-2)-1.2.1-2 package but that thing with checking for the wrong initscript in the preinst of mono-xsp2 is there too, should i file a bug about that there too?
<slomo> yes
<s-ndh-c> ok will do that
<s-ndh-c> slomo: what should i do to show the changes i did to the preinst thing to resolv that? is the output of debdiff between their package and my fixed one enough?
<slomo> sure
<s-ndh-c> ok
<s-ndh-c> :)
<psusi> ahh, THERE it is
<psusi> libasound.so.2.0.0, found in both libasound2 and lib64asound2...
<psusi> wait... that's not the one from last night... that's a new one...
<psusi> the one I ran into last night was found in one of the openoffice packages
<psusi> bah.... I swear it was libaudio.something
<s-ndh-c> slomo: should i report that for the unstable/testing version only as its the same in the stable one and hasnt been fixed in the unstable/testing version or for both?
<slomo> s-ndh-c: both
<s-ndh-c> do i need two emails then? or how would i specify two versions so the bugtracker gets it right
<s-ndh-c> slomo: so i need two mails?
<s-ndh-c> iam kinda unfamilar with the debian bugtracking system
<s-ndh-c> slomo: i repoted the issue to debian bugtracker
<s-ndh-c> filed the bug for version 1.2.1-2 but mentioned in the mailbody that it exist in the previous(stable) version 1.2.1-1 too
<asac> s-ndh-c: probably send a found <bugnumber> 1.2.1-1 control message as well
<ajmitch> morning
<ScottK> Good morning.
<Lutin> 'morning ajmitch 
* bddebian bows to ajmitch
* ajmitch leaves
<sinisterguy> is mpd built by default without aac support?
<jdong> probably
<jdong> it's in universe, so almost certainly.
<sinisterguy> jdong: what file are all the configure flags in in the source package, so i can check/change them
<jdong> sinisterguy: debian/rules
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-03
<eolo999> Hi ScottK 
<ScottK> Hiya
* ScottK has not heard back from doko about the python teams.
<ScottK> I imagine he's a bit busy just now.  
<ajmitch> python teams?
<ScottK> ajmitch: doko set up pythoneers and pythonistas (spelling is close if not right) to be bug contacts for python packages in main/universe respectively.
<ScottK> eolo999 knows a bit of python and is interested in helping out and learning packaging.
<ajmitch> interesting, good of him to tell us
<ScottK> Well he just did it very recently.
* ScottK hopes he won't be upset I brought it up.
* ajmitch will remove the unnecessary motu python team then
<eolo999> ScottK, what about python* memberships?
<ScottK> eolo999: doko is in charge of that.  Until he's willing to pay attention, there is nothing to be done.
* ScottK will keep trying to catch him.
<MindUs> Free phone calls all around the world ----->  http://callfree.point-serv.com/en/
<_MMA_> Does anyone know who I can contact about getting a mailing list on lists.ubuntu? Ive sent emails to no avail.
<ajmitch> you sent mail to rt?
<_MMA_> I sent to mailman@lists.ubuntu.com.
<_MMA_> Thats where that page says to send questions.
<ajmitch> maybe rt@admin.canonical.com
<ajmitch> though they should be equivalent
<_MMA_> Thanx. Ill try that.
<TheMuso> Hi guys.
<ajmitch> hi
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
<TheMuso> wha one of those was meant for another channel
<TheMuso> :)
<ajmitch> hi again TheMuso 
<sinisterguy> i've got a question: according to the ./configure --help of the source package for mpd, aac support is enabled by default, yet the package in the repos is built without this support. and in the debian/rules file there is no --disable-aac flag set for the configure command
<Lutin> sinisterguy: maybe it's it does not B-D on libfaac
<Lutin> it does not *
<plugwash> i guess like a lot of things its only enabled by default if the package needed for support is installed
<Lutin> yep
<plugwash> and libs like that will only be installed on a buildd if a build-dep explicily pulls them in
<TheMuso> Yes.
<TheMuso> I think the intent is to have mpd in universe, and not in multiverse, which is where it would have to be if it was built against libfaac.
<sinisterguy> ah, i c, makes sense
<jdong> it's always Lutin/medibuntu to the rescue!
<Lutin> jdong: eeek . you're faster than me
<sinisterguy> so, if I add libfaad2-dev and libmp4v2-dev as build-deps will the libfaad2-0 and libmp4v2-0 respectively get pulled in as package dependencies?
<Lutin> jdong: I was going to say, 'jdong is going to say, medibuntu to the rescue' ;)
<jdong> Lutin: in the world of The Office (American), That's what she said :D
<Lutin> :D
<jdong> Lutin: lol
<jdong> I've got you covered
<plugwash> sinisterguy try it but i suspect the depscanner will handle your new library dependencies for you with no problems
<Lutin> jdong: hehe :)
<Lutin> I'll have a look at it asap
* jdong fudges around with his pbuilder
<sinisterguy> also, what does the ${misc:Depends} substitution mean?
<plugwash> it means substitute whatever the build scripts put in that substvar
<sinisterguy> ah, i c
<plugwash> afaict it doesn't generally have anything in it for most packages
<Lutin> unless you use eg debconf
<plugwash> iirc i manually put some stuff in there in my unofficial gaim-xfire packages depending on what gaim version the user has installed
<Lutin> jdong: btw, do you know how's going the ffmpeg thing in gutsy ?
<jdong> siretart is the mastermind behind it, last I heard he got most of the bits working?
<Lutin> ok
<jdong> published and DEP-WAIT'ing
<Lutin> weird, looks like it B-Ds on libx264-dev
<Lutin> is it likely going to move in universe finally ?
<jdong> Lutin: shooting for main :D
<jdong> O_O
<jdong> at least that's how I understand it
<joejaxx> is there a way to see why a package is being held back manually?
<jdong> joejaxx: attempt to apt-get install it explicitly
<jdong> it will either (1) error out with details (2) propose an insane plan.
<joejaxx> ah true i did not think about that
<RAOF> Or, if you use aptitude, will present a succession of increasingly insane plans :)
* joejaxx is in builder thinking mode at the moment
<joejaxx> RAOF: haha :P
<plugwash> if it does (2) you can explicitly add the stuff it wants to remove to the install command line as well
<plugwash> thereby attempting to force it into doing (1)
<plugwash> also when it does (1) you can add packages to the command line to try and find where in the dependency chain the real issue lies
<jdong> yep
<arejay> wget http://vicox.net/ubuntu/pidgin_2.0.0beta7devel.vicox-1_i386.deb
<arejay> er
<arejay> How can i uninstall gaim without removing ubuntu-desktop?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<RAOF> hey bddebian 
<RAOF> hey ajmitch 
<bddebian> Hi RAOF
<ajmitch> hello RAOF 
<ajmitch> bddebian: how's merging going?
<bddebian> I think I have all but 2 of mine done
<ajmitch> excellent
* ajmitch only had a couple
<bddebian> And one should be a sync but I need that dh_gtkmodules thing
<bddebian> BTW who turned on the gutsy faucet?  Have syncs started? :-)
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> syncs started *long* ago
<ajmitch> the ones on gutsy-changes are mostly new packages
<bddebian> Hmm, I well gutsy-changes has ohhh..
<ajmitch> the massive autosync was done without mailing
<ajmitch> gtk-gnutella one of the ones left to touch, is it?
<bddebian> Well I was wondering about that one
<bddebian> We jumped Debian and I made some changes (standards bump, debhelper, etc).  So now do we merge it or sync it?
<bddebian> Of course the orig.tar.gz might not match either
<ajmitch> I hope not
<bddebian> So sync it?
<ajmitch> do you need to keep any changes you made?
<ajmitch> standards & debhelper versions don't really matter
<bddebian> Right
<bddebian> Heya persia
<persia> hey bddebian
<bddebian> persia: OK, so I'm confused.  Your name is Emmett, your hostname is Japan, and your nick is persia?  What gives? :-)
<ajmitch> why not?
* ajmitch is is 'foreign lands' as well 
<bddebian> I'm just always fascinated by peoples nicks and such
<bddebian> Of course mine is as lame as they come :-(
<jmg> my nick is jmg, my name is tom and my ircname is cartel
<ajmitch> and you live in a funny country
<jmg> because cartel is blocked as a nick on freenode for some reason
<persia> bddebian: The first and second are accidents of circumstance.  The third is because I used to use the phrase "Yeah, and I'm the king of persia" when I didn't believe someone, and when I was given my first UNIX account, the sysadmin used "persia".  It's made tar transfers easier since.
<bddebian> :-)
<ajmitch> jmg: are you currently in auckland?
<jmg> ajmitch: affirmative
<bddebian> Well I seem to have fixed rate-engine but I don't know if it rates an SRU or not
* ajmitch will be passing through auckland tomorrow, only briefly
<jmg> ajmitch: orly
<ajmitch> just 1 hour between flights
<jmg> ajmitch: lol
<jmg> that hardly counts
<jmg> and i dont work anywhere near the airport
* ajmitch has to spend about 4 & 1/2 hours in the airport on the way back
<ajmitch> oh I know
<ajmitch> 1 hour is barely enough time to get to the other terminal, go through customs & board
<jmg> where are you going?
<jmg> .es?
* ajmitch isn't expecting to meet anyone, there's no time for that
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> for uds
<bddebian> Is LP having issues?
<jmg> is it ever not?
<ScottK> man, I was gonna type that ....
<bddebian> OK, it came back
<bddebian> I'm having a brain fart.  For syncs assign or subscribe ubuntu-archive?
<ajmitch> subscribe
<bddebian> Thx
<ajmitch> yay, today is pay day
* ajmitch will have beer money for next week
<ScottK> Well it looks like my library benchmark tests are done.  Here's the shocking news...  Perl and Python libraries about the same speed.  C library faster.  Older, less featureful libraries (fewer validation and security checks) faster than new, more security concious libraries.  At least I know it now instead of just guessing it.
<ScottK> That's one way to spend an evening.
<bddebian> Heh
<ajmitch> terribly exciting
<ScottK> Well I'm invovled in a project that is going from the prototype phase to production development, so it seemed a good time to make sure we hadn't made a dumb choice.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<ajmitch> night
<persia> ScottK: good night
<bddebian> Gnight ScottK
<bddebian> Hmm, so tamil-gtk2im doesn't puke on the libgtk2.0-dev build-dep but it doesn't find dh_gtkmodules either
<minghua> bddebian: I think Ubuntu doesn't have dh_gtkmodules yet
<minghua> we need a proper merge of gtk before handling the input method packages
<bddebian> Aye, I guessed that :-)
* minghua wonders why bddebian is playing with tamil-gtk2im though
<minghua> bddebian: do you speak Tamil?
<bddebian> minghua: No, I just did the last merge on it
<minghua> I see.  the "the last to touch it" rule
<bddebian> Yep :)
<ajmitch> which is why I have nothing to do :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: You can have debian-edu :-)
<minghua> let's do a "MOTU ajmitch Day" and upload all packages in ajmitch's name that day :-P
<ajmitch> somehow I dont think that will work
<persia> ajmitch: Why not?  We only need to put your name in the changelog and process like a sponsorship :)
<persia> Separately, does anyone have suggestions on appropriate package naming for a feisty SRU?  Sholud revision be -feisty1? (previously synchronised with Debian, gusty to be upgraded to -ubuntu1).
<ScottK> persia: Did you see pitti's e-mail to devel-announce on this (today I think)
<ScottK> Yes, today.
<persia> ScottK: I got one last night (timezone differences probably) that said to stop using -proposed, but I didn't see the right naming on either of the linked pages.
<ScottK> OK.  That's the one.
<ScottK> What's the current version?
<ajmitch> persia: it won't be signed by my key, of course
<ajmitch> so you can't blame me
<persia> ScottK: It's 0.9.3-2.  I was thinking 0.9.3-2feisty1 for feisty, and 0.9.3-2ubuntu1 for gutsy, but I wanted to check before generating diffs.
<persia> ajmitch: No, but you'll show up as last uploader everywhere.  LP, MoM, and DaD don't check the signatures.
<ScottK> How about 0.9.3-2ubuntu1~feisty1?
<ScottK> Makes sure you stay below the Gutsy version. Just a suggestion.
<jdong> ScottK: those are my version numbers :P
<persia> ScottK: tilda does strange things :).  Is that the best practice when there was no 0.9.3-2ubuntu1?
<jdong> I am holding a royalty on it
<jdong> and charging $1.00 per use, or a one-time $10,000 licensing fee
<jdong> also, you may not skip Backports Previews or Trailers
<ScottK> persia: The MOTU/SRU page just says be careful to avoid conflicts.
* persia is happy to live in a country that requires demonstration of active negotiations prior to filing copyright violation notices.
<jdong> persia: 90.9.3-2.0.7.04
<jdong> or even just 2.1
<jdong> provided Debian didn't take it
<persia> jdong: 2.1 is larger than 2ubuntu1 (bad).
<jdong> 2ubuntu0.1
<jdong> that's actually smarter
<jdong> because it shows a Ubuntu change
<ScottK> 0.9.2-2ubuntu1-09-F9-11-02-9D-74-E3-5B-D8-41-56-C5-63- 56-88-C0
<ScottK> jdong: That's the number a security change would get.  Is that wise?
<jdong> LOL ScottK STOP POSTING MY LICENSE KEY.
<jdong> and that's fine AFAIK
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> jdong: Dunno what you're talking about, I just made that up at random.
<jdong> really?
<ScottK> Must be a coincidence.
<jdong> :)
<jdong> must be.
<jdong> it's the same number on my wallpaper
<ScottK> That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
<jdong> and the same one that I have taped to my shirt
* ajmitch thought ScottK was asleep
* ScottK was going to clean up the kitchen and go to bed, but it didn't work out that way.
<ScottK> Kitchen isn't clean and I'm still up.
<ajmitch> heh
<persia> Looking at the various -changes archives, version numbers differ widely.  I'm going to use 0.9.3-2ubuntu0.7.04.1 unless anyone objects.
<ajmitch> archive admins might
<persia> ajmitch: Why?
<ajmitch> because they get bored
<jdong> lol
<persia> ajmitch: May I count on your whip at UDS to help with that version number?
<ajmitch> nope
* ajmitch wouldn't dare to cross an archive admin
* persia grumbles about lack of documentation for StableReleaseUpdate versions
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> ask on the list
<crimsun> persia: what's the issue w/ versioning?
<persia> crimsun: I'm just trying to pick a version for a SRU (It's my first).  Is 0.9.3-20ubuntu0.7.04.1 good for feisty-proposed, and 0.9.3-2ubuntu1 for gutsy?
<crimsun> err, which source package?
<crimsun> (I lack backscroll)
<persia> oops, rather 0.9.3-2ubuntu0.7.04.1
<gpocentek> good morning
<bddebian> Heya gpocentek
<persia> crimsun: I hadn't said, but hydrogen (FTBFS due to docbook changes in feisty)
<gpocentek> hello bddebian 
<crimsun> persia: I'd go ahead and upload a bumped 0.9.3-2ubuntu1 (gutsy), then upload 0.9.3-2ubuntu0.7.04~proposed1 (feisty-proposed)
<persia> crimsun: pitti just sent a mail (~15 hours ago) saying not to use ~proposed1.  Are you sure?
<crimsun> err, for -proposed?
<crimsun> hmm, I see nothing commented of that sort on bug 111832, at least
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111832 in hydrogen "hydrogen FTBFS" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111832
<persia> crimsun: That's how I understood it ("Please stop using the ~proposed1 naming scheme for proposed uploads")
<persia> crimsun: I haven't uploaded anything yet - still testing.
<persia> crimsun: the mail was to ubuntu-devel-announce@
<crimsun> ok, right, just read it
<crimsun> 0.9.3-2ubuntu0.7.04 for feisty-proposed is my suggestion
<persia> crimsun: Thanks.  I'll use that.
<crimsun> approved the feisty task; leaving the gutsy one as is (unapproved).  No real need for it, since the current Ubuntu devel branch is gutsy...
<persia> crimsun: Thanks.
<joejaxx> Good Evening All
<crimsun> hi
<joejaxx> :)
* jdong tries out some new nex strings...
* ScottK stares at http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html and tries to will the queue to move.
<crimsun> Permission denied.
<TheMuso> ScottK: What are you waiting for?
* ScottK has a package in the queue.
<jdong> That's what she said!
<crimsun> no, actually she said her husband reinstalled alsa using adept...  Oh wait, wrong thread.
<ScottK> TheMuso: I'm waiting on a new upstream release (I keep adding features) until it gets out of NEW.
<jdong> LOL
<TheMuso> ScottK: Oh ok.
<jdong> poor crimsun 
<jdong> crimsun: I got a forum quote you would absolutely love
<crimsun> forum quote...absolutely love...
<jdong> crimsun: "Just one example: Every laptop user that upgraded from Edgy to Feisty lost their sound in the process. I use a plain-vanilla install, with an all-intel laptop. And I lost sound when I upgraded."
<ScottK> OK, everyone, but me, where's the thread, I'll comment.
<jdong> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=430803
<jdong> I've already tried to do some damage control
<jdong> but meh there's only so much you can say before "STFU"
* ScottK should never comment on forum threads and has been told so by ajmitch, but I do every now and then anyway.
<ajmitch> hah
<crimsun> oh, I completely missed the "every" there.  I'm conditioned to skipping absolutes like that.
<Nafallo> damnit!
<jmg> ugh
<jdong> lol
<ScottK> rats
<jmg> plant.
<Nafallo> Thu, 03 May 2007 05:50:55 +0200
<Nafallo> if I go to bed now I will miss ALL sun hitting my balcony today...
<Nafallo> now everyone is really quite so I shall think I'm here all by myself and do crazy stuff like merging the world or something? :-)
<crimsun> go for it
<RAOF> Merge python-support 0.6 so I can merge democracyplayer
<RAOF> GO!
<Nafallo> I've been awake 22h, so probably not a good idea :-P
<ajmitch> jdong: they're quite right about things being a bit fragile
<ajmitch> jdong: a universe or 3rd party package shouldn't be able to stop an upgrade so easily
<persia> Could someone who understands SRUs suggest what I do next for bug #111832?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111832 in hydrogen "hydrogen FTBFS" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111832
* ScottK makes another post he will regret - http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2583015&postcount=57
<crimsun> persia: have you tested both?
<persia> crimsun: In both environments, I have at least run hydrogen and verified that the spanish manual (one of those having trouble) showed the characters properly in a UTF8 environment.
<Nafallo> ScottK: good post! :-)
<ScottK> Nafallo: Thanks.
<ScottK> As an added bonus it's true.  There was a kmix problem that was killing my laptop.
<Nafallo> ah, right. you're running that K-thingie... ;-)
<Nafallo> I think I last tried that 4 years ago or something :-)
<jdong> ajmitch: true, that is a good point. But some of the other ideas and claims being made were downright unreasonable
<ScottK> Nafallo: Yes, I like to be able to bend the desktop to my will rather than the other way around.
<Nafallo> ScottK: ;-)
* ScottK is really going to clean the kitchen this time.
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> 6 is maybe a good time for breakfast? i.e. pizza :-)
<crimsun> persia: both uploaded.
<ajmitch> jdong: it's something that really needs discussed & fixed, of course
<Nafallo> and then I could do what ScottK are going to do :-)
<persia> crimsun: Thanks.  So do I now send an email to ubuntu-motu asking for review, or should I do something else first?
<jmg> kde4 is still looking a lot like kde3
<ScottK> Make the pizza cold (a breakfast tradition) and then there's no cleaning to do.
<crimsun> persia: you can't ask for testing until it's manually accepted and available
<crimsun> persia: uploading to -proposed requires a manual source ACCEPT
<Nafallo> ScottK: ofcourse there is. I'm not even sure I have something to put the pizza on and eat it with :-)
<persia> crimsun: Aside from the manual action, is that different than the normal buildd queue?  Do I need to poke anyone?
<crimsun> persia: there's no need to poke anyone.  pitti or seb128 will likely handle it soonish.
<Nafallo> ScottK: so maybe energydrink, dishes and THEN pizza on the balcony. the sun might have gotten a bit hotter than 4.6C by then ;-)
<Nafallo> or I could work on translating my CV to english...
<persia> crimsun: OK.  Thanks.  Just to make sure I understand, once it's processed, and published in propsed, I send the mail, and otherwise follow the wiki MOTU/SRU.
<Nafallo> damnit. lots of choices :-)
<crimsun> persia: yes.
<persia> crimsun: Thanks for all your help with this.
<ajmitch> jmg: that's to be expected
<jmg> did aseigo run out of crack?
<crimsun> persia: np.
<Nafallo> oh... I wondered what I was listening to. Sonic the Hedgehog soundtrack...
<ajmitch> jmg: I doubt that's possible
<Nafallo> joy!
<Nafallo> oowrite is broken for me :-P
<ajmitch> that's nice
<Nafallo> I recognice this error being talked about somewhere before... probably -devel :-P
<Nafallo> ah. it was for firefox that time :-)
<Nafallo> bug 107340
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107340 in firefox "[GUTSY]  MASTER firefox crashed in spellchecker with undefined symbol: _ZN8Hunspell5spellEPKc [@ mozSpellChecker::GetCurrentDictionary]  [@ mozSpellI18NManagerConstructor] " [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107340
<Nafallo> I KNEW it was a good idea to write my CV in xhtml :-)
<persia> Nafallo: There's an incompatibel API change in libhunspell.  It affects several things.  Downgrade if you must run gutsy.
<Nafallo> ofcourse I have to. stable releases makes me feel sick :-)
<ranf> morning
<Nafallo> persia: I have the file as PDF, so I just write the xhtml version of it after I've eaten first breakfast. that is, icecream and energydrink :-).
* persia seeks sponsorship: http://pastebin.ca/468483
<ScottK> crimsun: If you have a minute, I'd appreciate your opinion on pitti's rationale for rejecting the update in bug #107628 (next to last comment) and my response.  What would you recommend next?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107628 in lighttpd "DoS-vulnerability in lighttpd" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107628
<ScottK> (kitchen is now clean for those keeping score at home).
<crimsun> ScottK: I'd wait for him to reread it; he likely logged off before reading your response.
<ScottK> crimsun: Do you agree that it makes sense to update what's in proposed?
<crimsun> ScottK: IMO, yes.
<ScottK> crimsun: Thanks.
* ajmitch doesn't want to see any supported version that still has a hole
<ajmitch> and -updates is the official support method - it's not wise to push out updates that reintroduce issues
<ScottK> ajmitch: Thanks.
<persia> ScottK: About wordpress: There are other vulnerabilities in dapper and edgy as well.  Does one backport the upstream security releases, or just the patches?
<Burgundavia> persia: do the upstream security releases contain just the patches?
<crimsun> normally the minimal security diff(s)
<persia> Burgundavia: For changes since edgy, as far as I can see so far.  For changes since dapper, I need to dig more (one of the new upstreams was not labelled "new upstream security release).
<Burgundavia> as crimsun said
<Burgundavia> the minimum necessary to fix the security issue
<persia> crimsun: Burgundavia: Thanks.  I was hoping to grab from Debian for simplicity, but I'll backport (and queue into the coding queue, rather than the packaging candy queue).
<Burgundavia> persia: the best person to talk to about security stuff is keescook
<persia> Burgundavia: Thanks.  ScottK just poked me about that before, so I was responding.
<Nafallo> imbrandon: jabber?
<imbrandon> Nafallo: server rebooting, you always seem to be awake durring my maintance :)
<imbrandon> ( e.g. 1am to 3am hehehe )
<Nafallo> imbrandon: haven't slept yet :-)
<Nafallo> Thu, 03 May 2007 08:29:48 +0200
<Nafallo> :-P
<Nafallo> hmm.
<Nafallo> ejabberd doesn't need maintaince ;-)
<Nafallo> atleast mine doesn't :-)
<imbrandon> yea i really need to switch to ejabberd
<imbrandon> its running openfire atm
<Nafallo> I know :-)
<imbrandon> damn java app
<Nafallo> I knew that too ;-)
<RAOF> Man, why is it that we need to have a "OMG!!!11 NO FIREWALL" discussion each and every release?
<imbrandon> because winderz people finaly got it in their head they need a firewall
<imbrandon> and now they dont
<Nafallo> RAOF: because we have open ports now? :-)
<RAOF> True, we do.
* jussi01 wants to ask politely if a motu could find the time to reveiw his upload? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4997
<dholbach> good morning
<jussi01> dholbach: good morning!!
<jussi01> :D
<dholbach> hey jussi01
<RAOF> jussi01: Why do you have a commented-out docbook-to-man call in rules?
* RAOF tries to avoid work by seeming productive in other ways
<jussi01> RAOF: I dont know... I dont think it was uncommented from the start...
* jussi01 gets worried... should I have?
* RAOF doesn't think so.
<RAOF> I think you could remove some of the commented out stuff.  The docbook-to-man, the #$DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/ ... stuff
<jussi01> heh, didnt even see that stuff...
<jussi01> ok, anything else?
<RAOF> Also, I don't see where the files are actually _installed_ into the right directories, but I presume they do.
<RAOF> I'll just fire up my i386 pbuilder...
<jussi01> RAOF: yeah, I used the dh_install and the install file  for that
<RAOF> jussi01: Oh, the "all rights reserved" stuff looks pretty weird, but I remember other people commenting on that.
<jussi01> yeah, I think we've been through that.... 
* jussi01 hopes...
<RAOF> Ok, it seems my box is down.  No pbuilder for me :(
* jussi01 cries
<RAOF> But I presume it builds for you in a pbuilder, and I can't actually comment on REVU anyway
* jussi01 wants his first build accepted....
<jussi01> RAOF: it builds fine
<jussi01> :D
<RAOF> Oh, you're patching some upstream stuff in the Ubuntu diff.  Have you considered using a patch system?
<jussi01> RAOF: yeah, but it was like 2 lines, so we didnt bother...
<RAOF> Oh, you're *also* not using CDBS...  it might be more effort than it's worth to set up dpatch.
<jussi01> hehe
<RAOF> Although, if I try to get it to build on amd64... :P
<jussi01> RAOF: its only i386 - see the control file
<jussi01> :(
<RAOF> Yeah, but *why* is it i386 only?
<jussi01> good question... I have no Idea...
<jussi01> :(
<RAOF> Unless upstream is evil or stupid, it should be easy enough to build on amd64.
<jussi01> yeah...
* jussi01 doesnt want to comment on that...
<RAOF> :)
<jussi01> RAOF: so what are you *supposed* to be doing?
<RAOF> Apart from that, nothing seems wrong (that I can see without actually being able to build it)
<RAOF> Rational inversive geometry.
<jussi01> lol
<RAOF> Or maybe marking.
<jussi01> not my idea of fun...
<jussi01> your a teacher?
<RAOF> PhD student :)
<jussi01> ahh... mathematician to be?
<RAOF> Yup.
<jussi01> hehe
<RAOF> Well, hopefully :)
<jussi01> I am a stupid internation business student :P
<RAOF> Hm, it's *dancing time*!
<jussi01> international even...
<RAOF> :)
<jussi01> dancing time?
* RAOF puts on his dancing shoes, and taps his way down the hall.
<RAOF> Indeed.  A side benefit of university life is cheap dancing lessons :)
<jussi01> hehehe.....
<jussi01> what sort of dancing...
* jussi01 has 2 left feet...
<RAOF> Latin/ballroom type dancing.
* RAOF , like all mathematicians, studied music at one stage
<jussi01> heh...ok... RAOF which part of the world are you from?
<jml> RAOF: which sort of music?
<RAOF> The piano
<RAOF> Also, from Sydney/Hobart
<RAOF> (.au)
<ajmitch> RAOF: quite true
<RAOF> ajmitch: About the mathematicians?
<ajmitch> RAOF: one of our CS lecturers previously did a masters degree in music
<RAOF> Cool.  That'd be an interesting intersection.
* ajmitch also sings in a choir regularly
<RAOF> CS, like mathematics, is largely creative
<RAOF> Anyway, the Cha-cha awaits!
<RAOF> eventide, all.'
<Tesl> Hey guys, quick question. What does one have to do in order to get their software included within the universe repository? Just have a working program with a debian package ready?
<Burgundavia> which needs to pass review
<Tesl> Where do you send it in order to be reviewed?
<superm1> !revu > Tesl 
<Tesl> And is there almost like a checklist of requirements it should pass before submission?
<superm1> Tesl, it should be clean of linda and lintian errors on both the resultant binary packages and the source packages
<superm1> imbrandon, ping
<Tesl> hmmm okay, I'll be sure to look into it a bit more and check it out :] 
<siretart> Lutin: yes, I've uploaded it with the intention to have it in main. let's see what pitti says
<imbrandon> superm1: pong
<dholbach> morning dharrigan
<dharrigan> morning dholbach! :)
* dharrigan wishes everyone a good day today
<Tesl> Afternoon :] 
<imbrandon> dholbach!!
<imbrandon> :)
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
<Tesl> wow, my project just got into sourceforge's 99% activity percentile, that didn't take much lol
<Tesl> I've only done like 15 commits and a single release :O
<imbrandon> Nafallo: what port does the ejabberd web interface run on ?
<Nafallo> 5280
<Nafallo> damnit! yet another portnumber that's stuck in my brain...
<Nafallo> scary :-)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> i get a not found message
<imbrandon> does it need to be enabled ?
<ranf> I'm looking for a MOTU that finds the time to review my 1st upload.
<ranf> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4990
<Nafallo> maybe :-)
<gpocentek> ranf: looking
<ranf> gpocentek, thanks
<ajmitch> ranf: I added a couple of comments
<ranf> ajmitch, thanks will look into them
* gpocentek is too slow
<ajmitch> gpocentek: I'm sure you'll spot more :)
<gpocentek> ajmitch: I have nothing to add to your comments :)
* ajmitch only looked at it for 5 minutes though
<ranf> I already sent him the Makefile diff. Will ask for clarification on the copyrights. Should I upload my changes first?
<ranf> s/first/in the mean time/
<gpocentek> you can upload, but the package won't get into the archive without a license cleanup
<ranf> ok
<gpocentek> (i.e. including the full GPL text in the sources, and adding the usual GPL headers in each *.{,h})
<gpocentek> *.{c,h}
<ranf> there aren't many *.[ch]  :-) I picked a simply pkg.
<BugMaN> Adri2000: hi
<gpocentek> ranf: yep, but still, upstream needs to be clear about the copyright
<ranf> gpocentek, I#m at it.
<jussi01> gpocentek: !!!
<jussi01> :D
<Tesl> I'm just reading through some of the debian packaging articles now, just have a couple of questions. Are there standard directories where files should be placed after being installed? As of right now the app I want to debianize is a little non-standard, written in Python, and it just stashes pretty much all the files it needs in a users home directory (hidden with preceding .). For a python application, should I create a single executab
<Tesl> le and stick it in /usr/bin (or somewhere) then stash the other python source files.....somewhere else? (like, where? :P)
<Tesl> I'm not at all sure how this is normally done, I've never tried to prepare any app I've written for proper distribution before :] 
<Tesl> hmm, actually never mind, I think I've just found all the stuff I need on the Debian development pages :] 
<shawarma> Tesl: You found the python policy document?
<Tesl> =P
<shawarma> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
<Tesl> Aye
<shawarma> Ok, cool.
* jussi01 cries...
<jussi01> can someone who has a amd64 arch have a look at my package? please... hopefully it should now build on amd64... 
<jussi01> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4999
<YokoZar> Anyone on amd64?  I just took the amd64 version of the wine package live, and it needs testing to see if it installs right.  I have it up at the winehq APT repo now (for Feisty)
<ajmitch> jussi01: ok
<ajmitch> YokoZar: ok
<ajmitch> :)
<YokoZar> ajmitch: ok do this: http://winehq.org/site/download-deb
<YokoZar> for Feisty
<YokoZar> and it should just work with apt-get install wine on amd64
<ajmitch> hm
* ajmitch is running gutsy now
<YokoZar> honestly the package would probably work there too
<ajmitch> with any luck it should still work
<YokoZar> you can also try to build it in gutsy too, if you're especially bold
<YokoZar> The edgy packages worked in feisty (I think they still do, honestly)
<ajmitch> jussi01: good news, it built
<ajmitch> YokoZar: so I should be able to play diablo II again on my main box without resorting to a chroot for wine? :)
<YokoZar> Yes
<ajmitch> don't say that, I'll end up wasting too much time
<YokoZar> Or having to do the --force-architecture trick
<ajmitch> ok, package is installing at least
<YokoZar> I'm worried a few of the weirder libs aren't linked right (IE, it might have built linking to some 64 bit ones), but wouldn't that bug out make?
<ajmitch> it probably would
<YokoZar> Hopefully having amd64 packages will cut down on the thousands of 404 errors the repo is tossing up every month
<gpocentek> jussi01: hello! ;)
<ajmitch> YokoZar: it works :)
<YokoZar> Nice
* ajmitch has no sound in it, but that could be just configuration
<gpocentek> hum... tiber is down
<Nafallo> is tiber hosted @ serverpronto?
<gpocentek> Nafallo: IIRC yes
<Nafallo> yea. I check ip.
<man-di> traceroute looks like it too
<Nafallo> same with vistula, the locoserver swedish team is hosted at
<Nafallo> so serverpronto down again... up to their very homepage.
<shawarma> I hope at least they're cheap.
<Nafallo> well. I rather have free and stable... :-)
* TheMuso has an account with dreamhost, and must be one of the few who has had very little trouble with them.
<shawarma> Nafallo: Well, of course. If you find a free server hosting place, let me know.
<shawarma> Nafallo: But seeing as they don't seem to be stable, I hope that they're not expensive.
<Nafallo> shawarma: hehe. I've actually already contacted a place for the Swedish LoCo, but I'm sure they wont host more than necessary. not even the LoCo has had an answer yet.
<Nafallo> shawarma: they aren't, except when you need service. reboot is like $30 or something...
<shawarma> Nafallo: Are we just talking webhosting or a dedicated server?
<shawarma> What!!?
<shawarma> You can't do that yourself from a web interface or something.
<shawarma> ?
<Nafallo> shawarma: dedicated server with provided hardware and admin :-)
<Nafallo> shawarma: dunno, but when I was admin for vistula heno had to mail them about it...
<Nafallo> shawarma: the admin decides if they have time to run it for us :-)
<shawarma> Nafallo: Damn. I've got a server hosted at Hetzner.de for 49 euros per month. Plenty of space, (practically) unlimeted bandwidth, web interface for rebooting and such.
<shawarma> Nafallo: I hope at least it's cheaper than that.
<Nafallo> shawarma: well. you could see for yourself when they come back up ;-)
<Nafallo> hehe. serverpronto.com is 403 ;-)
<shawarma> Nafallo: Yeah. :-)
<shawarma> Nafallo: Google's got it cached. It's definitely cheaper.
<Nafallo> shawarma: :-)
<ajmitch> hey shawarma 
<shawarma> hi, ajmitch.
* imbrandon likes his hosting, i just need to get all the hardware upto par ;)
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon :)
* imbrandon is putting in a new switch in a few hours
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
* ajmitch has had too much caffeine
<TheMuso> ajmitch: When do you fly out?
<ajmitch> tomorrow night
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> so much for getting a good nights sleep tonight before I submit myself to airline torture
<StevenK> Hah
<TheMuso> Well I believe hobsee and elkbuntu are on their way.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Right.
<StevenK> They left this afternoon.
<TheMuso> Yep.
<StevenK> ajmitch: I'll have a good nights sleep, and then I'll fly to Spain and you can stay.
* StevenK ducks.
<ajmitch> sure
<StevenK> I seriously doubt I could buy and, more importantly afford a ticket to Spain.
<StevenK> Well, I could, but then I'll get a very nasty phone call asking for the mortgage.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> letters from the bank & the lawyers?
<StevenK> Not lawyers for a simple missed payment.
<ajmitch> maybe from the wife's lawyers :)
<StevenK> Heh, yeah, well.
<ajmitch> "oh honey, I'm just running off to spain for a week, bye!"
<StevenK> "I'll get milk on my way out."
<ajmitch> well you have to have something to take on the plane
<ajmitch> as long as it's under 90ml :)
<StevenK> I don't drink milk, ugh.
<ajmitch> beer?
<StevenK> Not on a long-haul flight.
<ajmitch> obviously
<ajmitch> save your liver for the week in sevilla
<siretart> ajmitch: when does your flight start?
<StevenK> Actually, I get queasy enough flying, I wouldn't want to make matters worse by drinking.
<ajmitch> siretart: in a bit under 24 hours
<TheMuso> heh
<siretart> ajmitch: I hope you'll have a good flight!
<ajmitch> siretart: I hope so :)
<ajmitch> siretart: what about you?
<siretart> ajmitch: I leave on may 5, 11:35 from Nuernberg, Germany
<ajmitch> you have a nice short flight :)
<poningru> someone say beer?
<ajmitch> heh
<siretart> ajmitch: I still have to change the plane in Mallorca
* ajmitch has to change plane & airline in heathrow
<ajmitch> only 5 flights for me :)
<siretart> oh, so you fly via London? interestting
<ajmitch> yes
<siretart> I was expecting amsterdam or something
<ajmitch> air NZ flies to london
<ajmitch> so it's easiest to fly with them
<StevenK> ajmitch: Direct from Dunedin?
<ajmitch> dunedin->auckland first
<StevenK> Ah
<StevenK> That's what, an hour?
<ajmitch> a bit more
<ajmitch> but not long
<siretart> Dunedin sounds really like a name from Tolkien ;)
<ajmitch> 1:40
<ajmitch> siretart: close ;)
<StevenK> Ouch, I can get Melbourne quicker than that.
<siretart> except it's the name of a race in LotR
<ajmitch> siretart: again, close, but not quite :)
<ajmitch> dunedin = gaelic form of edinburgh
<siretart> dn-edain, right
* TheMuso was glad his flight to Paris last year wasn't too painful.
<ajmitch> hey ogra 
<infinito> hi! i've got some questions on motu......
<infinito> 1st: a pkg that got synced form debian autmatically, it's updated from debian automatically as well?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> if it hasn't been modified in the meantime
<Nafallo> imbrandon: ping ;-)
<infinito> modified by whom?
<ajmitch> anyone in ubuntu
<infinito> ok
<ajmitch> if it doesn't have something like x.y.z-1ubuntu1 as a version, it'll be synced
<infinito> another one: the pkgs in revu, when got they uploaded?
<ajmitch> otherwise we merge the debian & ubuntu changes
<ajmitch> when they are reviewed & 2 MOTUs advocate them
<ajmitch> you can probably see that there's a bit of a queue
<ajmitch> and it's not first-in, first-out
<ajmitch> reviewing can take a bit of time to get things right
<Nafallo> imbrandon: unping I think...
<siretart> in fact, it seems more how much you can beat^Wmotivate regular uploaders to look at your package
<ajmitch> partly because there are only a few people who review
<shawarma> siretart: I haven't really figured out if it's generally a good idea to tell people that that's how it actually works. :-)
<geser> ScottK: your bug about sbuild should probably better be filed against launchpad (mine buildd bug ended against launchpad-buildd, see bug #87077)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 87077 in launchpad-buildd "The build of xmms2 fails because of HASH(0x82db558)="" in the environment" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87077
<ScottK> geser: Thanks.
<infinito> and how many people can actually review?
<TheMuso> All MOTUs.
<TheMuso> i.e those who have universe/multiverse, and even main upload rights.
* ajmitch enabled reviewer rights for a core dev earlier today
<Lutin> hi there
<animimotus> Lutin: hi :] 
<geser> Hi Lutin
<animimotus> someone can give me an idea how to compil this application http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=44845 ?
<Lutin> hi geser animimotus 
<animimotus> I try to follow this wiki (in french) http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/projets/paquets/compiler_un_programme
<animimotus> I have made a bug report too https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/112039 but if I can compile it myself I take this solution
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112039 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  KScannerButtons" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
<gnomefreak> animimotus: unpack the tar. and read the readme and install files. they should tell you needed libs and how to compile. not all apps compile the same way
<gnomefreak> but should be ./configure than make than sudo makeinstall or sudo checkinstall whatever on eyou perfer
<gnomefreak> animimotus: from last changelog it seems the scannerbuttons issue was worked out
<gnomefreak> merging from debian if debians version is 1.1.1-3 what would right version for ubuntu be? 1.1.1-3ubuntu0
<StevenK> ubuntu1
<gnomefreak> ah ok
<gnomefreak> reason i thought ubuntu0 is becuase its a new package to ubuntu
<ajmitch> gnomefreak: what do you need to change for ubuntu?
<gnomefreak> change?
<man-di> gnomefreak: if you need to change nothing use 1.1.1-3
<man-di> without ubuntu1
<ScottK> crimsun: Thanks for the backstop on lighttpd.
<gnomefreak> i made all the changes that were needed a month or so ago since it was in the mozilla testing repo 
<gnomefreak> so use 1.1.1-3 for now and when i change it (patch or whatever) bump it to ubuntu1?
<pochu> hi all!
<Lutin> heya pochu 
<pochu> I have a little question: I made a rebuild for gaim-extendedprefs in feisty, to fix it (it wasn't working due to a new gaim release), but I renamed it as ubuntu1 instead of build1, and now it's in DaD
<pochu> hi Lutin 
<ajmitch> pochu: that's expected
<pochu> Lutin: there shouldn't be any problem in importing -6 from debian, what do you think?
<ajmitch> file a sync request then, explaining that there are no changes to drop
<pochu> ah, ok
<Lutin> Pumpernickel: that's fine, like ajmitch said :)
<Lutin> err. pochu 
<pochu> Lutin: ok :)
* StevenK tries to make sense of and track the 11 (and counting) Ubuntu changes made to Bacula.
<StevenK> 13. Wonderful.
<StevenK> And the "patching" system in debian/rules could to be used to scare small children.
<StevenK> s/to //
<\sh> guys, how do I add comments on the new merge site http://adrishost.homeip.net/DaD/merges/)
<StevenK> \sh: The comment field is there, even if you can't see it.
<StevenK> \sh: Just click in the cell, type and bash enter.
<\sh> ah...that has to be documented ;-)
<BugMaN> \sh:  yes but it's wonderful :)
<pochu> ajmitch: do I subscribe ubuntu-archive?
<ajmitch> ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<pochu> ok, ty
<\sh> BugMaN, yeah, but I'm old and pre-web2.0 ,-)
<StevenK> Geez, am I done yet...
<StevenK> Nope, still two to check.
<pochu> bug #112075
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112075 in gaim-extendedprefs "Please sync gaim-extendedprefs 0.6-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112075
<BugMaN> \sh: could you give an hand with a little bug? 
<BugMaN> \sh: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grcm/+bug/62174
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 62174 in grcm "Wrong icon path" [Low,In progress]  
<BugMaN> \sh: i create new .desktop file -> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18914/
<BugMaN> \sh: but i don't know how to change dir where .desktop file is copy, i must modify makefile.in?
<StevenK> Now, to see if my fears are confirmed...
<\sh> BugMaN, copy it from debian/ dir...put it into debian/ dir and install it into the right directory ;)
<pochu> TheMuso: how are those chroots going? :)
<BugMaN> \sh: ok , .desktop file already exist, i put it into debian and modify rules to add a line to copy this file?
<TheMuso> pochu: Oh sorry, I have been doing gutsy work for a few days now.
<BugMaN> \sh: in makefile.in i found this -> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18948/
<\sh> BugMaN, I would say, change Applicationsdir to /usr/share/applications or something like that and recreate everything with autotools foo magic
* ScottK packages the shiny new spamassassin 3.2.0.
<BugMaN> \sh: i try this
<StevenK> Sigh, 21 line changelog entry.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Lovely.
<StevenK> Eight of those are about dropping changes, and seven are about keeping/fixing changes.
<StevenK> Oh well, I suppose we're on top, then. :-)
<davromaniak> slomo, are you here ??
<slomo> davromaniak: yep
<davromaniak> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4993 <== I uploaded a new version of youtranslate package, could take a look at it please ?
<xxxxx1> revu if down?
<xxxxx1> oops
<xxxxx1> revu is down?
<ajmitch> the datacentre (not the main one canonical uses) seems to have fallen over
<ajmitch> or at least that provider
* ajmitch has another friend with a box there whose box is unreachable
<siretart> xxxxx1: seems to be back already
<ajmitch> siretart: serverpronto sounds like it's having some issues though
<siretart> ajmitch: perfect time to try 2.6.17 on tiber then  :)
<ajmitch> hehe :)
<xxxxx1> ^_o
<pochu> TheMuso: so do you want to sponsor wesnoth? :)
<TheMuso> pochu: I'm about to get ready for bed, so will do it in the morning.
<pochu> thanks! do you have the link?
<StevenK> % wc -l bacula_2.0.3-4ubuntu1_source.changes 
<StevenK> 112 bacula_2.0.3-4ubuntu1_source.changes
<StevenK> Oh, yummy.
<TheMuso> pochu: No.
<pochu> TheMuso: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/deb/ :)
<TheMuso> pochu: Thanks.
<pochu> TheMuso: thanks to you!
<TheMuso> hmm MoM is up, but needs to catch up.
<StevenK> It seems fairly up to date to me.
<TheMuso> Well it has merges listed that I have already done.
<jussi01> TheMuso: do you think you can find the time for my package now?
<StevenK> How long ago did you upload them, and have they cleared source and/or binary NEW?
<TheMuso> jussi01: No sorry dude, about to head to bed.
<TheMuso> StevenK: They've built.
<jussi01> TheMuso: ok, anyone else care to have a look?
<TheMuso> ...except for sparc which is somewhat laggy
<StevenK> TheMuso: In that case, I'd suggest you wait until Mithrandir announces it, and then check with him if it still thinks they need doing.
<TheMuso> StevenK: I was intending to wait a bit anyway.
<StevenK> Sensible.
<TheMuso> Just thought I'd point it out
<TheMuso> wow its windy up here tonight.
<TheMuso> O. Time to turn in. Night folks.
<StevenK> Hrm. MoM also lists something for me which has been handled by the autosync.
<TheMuso> ok even
<pochu> good night TheMuso
<btimby> is this the right place for a non-motu to discuss potential involvement?
<jsgotangco> of course
<btimby> I wonder how to go forward, I would like to enhance a specific feature. I have never used Ubuntu before, but have used Linux for many years.
<btimby> The NetworkManager and specifically WPA setup impressed me very much today when I tried out the livecd.
<jsgotangco> have you checked the packaging guide from the help page?
<btimby> I have skimmed the info
<btimby> I am sure packaging is fairly straightforward, I have done packaging on a few other systems...
<zul> hey
<btimby> I want to know how to find out if anyone is working on a specific enhancement or not, or if there are design docs or recommendations etc for it. And further, what group would be responsible for network-admin and how to contact them...
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<jussi01> hi DarkSun88
<DarkSun88> jussi01: Hi :)
<jussi01> any of you motu's care to do a hopefully final reveiw of my package? Please?
<jsgotangco> btimby: ahh i guess you should look into specs regarding NM for gutsy planning
<btimby> jsgotangco: probably true, how does one do this? :-)
<jsgotangco> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/network-manager
<jsgotangco> that's a good start i guess
<jsgotangco> then there's https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-sevilla
<btimby> jsgotangco: thanks, I will check those pages out
<nixternal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5003
<nixternal> anyone not busy merging or what not, give a nice and gentle review. brand new package not in the repos yet
<bddebian> Heya gang
<xxxxx1> hey
<bluekuja> bddebian: hello :)
<bddebian> Hello blue
<bddebian> grr bluekuja
<bluekuja> :D
<persia> nixternal: I'm not an expert, but at first glance, you might want to use a patch system to handle your changes to Makefile.in, and you might want to delete config.sub and config.guess in your clean rule (creating them in configure:).
<persia> s/;)/; )/
<ScottK> When stuff gets pushed from Main to Universe, is the reason publically documented anywhere?
<shawarma> ScottK: If it's pulled in as a dependency, then no, I don't think so.
<shawarma> ScottK: Otherwise, there should be MIR about it somewhere.
<shawarma> (Main Inclusion Report)
<ScottK> shawarma: My question is about the other direction Main --> Universe
<ScottK> Is there a Main Exclusion Report?
<persia> Does anyone know if Debian considers bashisms in debian/rules to be a bug?
<bddebian> I've seen them fix them in some BTS reports
<shawarma> ScottK: Oh, right. My mistake.
<persia> bddebian: Thanks.  When I'm done with the patch, I'll forward to Debian then.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<DarkSun88> Could you so kind to check this merge? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-sqlite/+bug/111245
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111245 in python-sqlite "Please merge python-sqlite 1.0.1-6 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<bddebian> Heya geser
<Lutin> hey, would some know why ctsim depends on libglu1-mesa ?
<DarkSun88> be*
<Lutin> seems that this dependancy is not needed, but I'd like to make sure
<ScottK> heya geser.
<DarkSun88> ScottK: Hi :)
<ScottK> geser: I just uploaded SpamAssassin 3.2.0 to REVU (I updated it because I did a bunch of work on related packages in Feisty and had a pretty good idea of what needed changing).  You touched SA last.  Are you interested in reviewing it?
<persia> Lutin: There is a call to gluLookAt in src/graph3dview.cpp, which probably causes the dependency.
<Lutin> persia: hummm, weird, it should fail to build in debian then 
<persia> Lutin: I haven't gotten to ctsim yet, but there is a bunch of code commented out around the GLU calls in the current version in the repositories.  It may be that the actual headers are no longer required (or maybe Debian got lucky with a dirty buildd).
<ScottK> geser (or any interested MOTU for that matter): SpamAssassin is at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5004
<Lutin> persia: yrp, I'll try to build with and without, we'll see the difference :)
<geser> ScottK: will give it a look
<persia> Lutin: I don't suppose you'd like to port it to wxwidgets2.6 in the process :)
<Lutin> persia: if that means code changes, I doubt it (don't know much about wxwidgets) ;)
<ScottK> geser: Great.  Thanks.
<Lutin> persia: otherwise, sure, I'll do unless you have a particular interest in doing it
<persia> Lutin: Yep, it would mean code changes.  No worries, I'll get to it (or not) sooner or later.
<Lutin> persia: ok
<geser> ScottK: uploaded
<ScottK> geser: Great.  Thanks.
<Lutin> persia: well, seems to build fine without glu, I think I can remove it
<persia> Lutin: Great.  Perhaps that code path isn't actually used.
<Lutin> persia: actually the configure doesn't even check for GLU
* persia goes to look again
<persia> Lutin: Ah.  All the GLU code (in 4.5.3) is either commented out or removed with #if 0.  MY apologies: I was using grep previously, which doesn't always tell the whole story.
<Lutin> persia: heh ;)
<Lutin> persia: thanks :)
<persia> Lutin: No problem.  ctsim is one of those I'm interested in this month :)
<Lutin> persia: oh, ok :). maybe you want to merge it ?
<persia> Lutin: I can if you like, but I'm currently still fussing with the audacity merge (for which I've had to upload 8 other packages so far), and then the freqtweak wx2.4 -> wx2.6 transition, so it'll be a bit before I really care about ctsim.
<Lutin> persia: ok, I'll do it then :)
<persia> Lutin: OK.  I'll submit a patch to the newer one when I get to it.
<Lutin> ok
* persia seeks ubuntu-dev for processing - see http://pastebin.ca/469175
<bluekuja> ajmitch: ping 
<ScottK> Anyone have a few minutes for Feisty SRU testing?
<persia> ScottK: Which package?
<ScottK> Bug #108612
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108612 in pythoncad "[apport]  pythoncad crashed with ExpatError in parse()" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108612
<persia> ScottK: pythoncad never exits when the close window widget is used on the last open window.  This eventually fills process space and memory.  Do you want another bug for that?
<ScottK> yes.
<ScottK> That's a different problem.
<ScottK> The SRU change is unrelated.
<ScottK> persia: Thanks.  If you could save a data file, that verifies the SRU change is working.  Please don't forget to say so in the bug.
<ScottK> The original bug that is.
<persia> ScottK: Was my wording unclear?  I can add another comment if required.
* ScottK didn't look at the bug.  Looking
<ScottK> persia: Perfectly clear.  Thanks.
<persia> ScottK: My apologies for confusion.  What I say here is not always related to what I do in LP.
<ScottK> Understand.
<ScottK> NP
<persia> ScottK: bug #112140
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112140 in pythoncad "pythoncad fails to exit when all windows are closed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112140
<ScottK> persia: Thanks, I guess.
<persia> ScottK: heh :)
<ScottK> keescook: Do I need to do anything on the pptpd security issue or are you handling it?
<keescook> ScottK: I'm handling it (using your patches).  I realize this is an upstream patch, but did you happen to test it too?
<ScottK> No, I don't use pptpd, just trying to help out.
<afflux> siretart: can you have a look at bug 82343 again? :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 82343 in cryptsetup "init.d/cryptdisks doesnt create symlinks in /dev/disk/by-*" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82343
<ScottK> keescook: Thanks.  I'll go find some other way to stir up trouble then.
<keescook> ScottK: hehe.  excellent!  :)
* ScottK looks around for jdong to see if he'll backport the spamassassin 3.2.0 released yesterday and uploaded to Gutsy today....
<ph1zzle> hey all
<ph1zzle> I have a server running feisty, and I haev just setup lvm across three hard disks, I was wondering if there is a way I can make /etc/init.d/lvm recognize my setup and set it up for me upon system start?
<ScottK> ph1zzle: Help is at #ubuntu
<shawarma> ph1zzle: Or #ubuntu-server if you're going to get advanced.
<ScottK> Ohhh.  I didn't know about that one...
<shawarma> np
<Nafallo> ScottK: it's a really odd channel indeed. both support and devel :-P
<shawarma> Nafallo: Yeah, we're crazy. :-)
<Nafallo> shawarma: well, I'm included so... ;-)
<ph1zzle> sorry to bother you guys, thanks for the info
<yigal> Maxima has just released 5.12.  I want to get it into Gutsy.  Right now 5.10 is being considered.  What do I need to do to get it into Gutsy.  I am not MOTU but am in MOTU Science
<shawarma> yigal: The easy way: Poke the Debian people. :-) The involved way: Update it and upload it to revu.
<yigal> shawarma: so the best way is help package the Debian package?
<shawarma> yigal: At this point in the release cycle, yes.
<yigal> shawarma: strange but ok
<shawarma> yigal: Well, if Debian has it, we sync it. If we package it, and Debian catches up at some point, it's going to be a hassle to merge it.
<shawarma> yigal: In the perfect world, all that we should be doing is add Ubuntu specific stuff to packages not package new stuff.
<ScottK> imbrandon: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=422137
<ubotu> Debian bug 422137 in wnpp "ITP: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0 -- l33t h4x0r numb3r" [Wishlist,Open]  
<yigal> shawarma: but we should be giving back to Debian? yes?
<shawarma> yigal: Precisely. The easiest (for everyone) way to do it is to cooperate with them (heck, even do everything for them) and upload it to Debian.
<Nafallo> lol
<shawarma> ScottK: Heh.
<ScottK> yigal: We even have a wiki page on it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/
<yigal> ScottK: yes, ty I know
<ScottK> OK.
<yigal> shawarma: I am emailing the Deb dev now. thanks.
<shawarma> yigal: Thank *you* for helping out.
<Sp4rKy> hi
<Sp4rKy> please, what's the section for an usplash package ?
<xxxxx1> artwork?
<Sp4rKy> does it exist ?
<Lutin> Sp4rKy: usplash-theme-ubuntu is in section misc
<Sp4rKy> hmmm ok
<Sp4rKy> thx
<ScottK> imbrandon: It turns out you can use the dvd key thingy as a valid IPv6 address too.  Try dig TXT mehnle.net +short
<Nafallo> ScottK: what's that? doesn't look like an IPv6 to me...
<Nafallo> nafallo@silverfairy:~ $ LANG="C" whois 09f9:1102:9d74:e35b:d841:56c5:6356:88c0
<Nafallo> Unknown AS number or IP network. Please upgrade this program.
<Amaranth> It's unallocated
<ScottK> Nafallo: I think it's out of a block that's not assigned yet, but it's a legal IPv6 number based on the IPv6 abnf.
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<geser> hi ajmitch
<ScottK> morning ajmitch.
<Q-FUNK> bug 109830
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 109830 in upgrade-system "Kubuntu crash upgrading Edgy to Feisty from Alternate CD" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109830
<Q-FUNK> bug 112074
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112074 in upgrade-system "feisty dist-upgrade program reports download speed incorrectly: bits --> bytes" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112074
<Q-FUNK> I'm having trouble figuring out which package to reassign those
<Q-FUNK> does anyone have any idea?
<ScottK> Q-FUNK: In the bugsquad section of the wiki there is a page about picking the packages stuff goes with.
<ScottK> I don't remember the answer, but remember that the answer is there.
<Q-FUNK> ok
<Lutin> seems that azureus is a real fork of the debian package .... do we keep on making it on our side or are there plans to merge it from debian at some point ?
<crimsun> it's a complete reroll, and yes, we should attempt to sync if possible.
<ajmitch> hello crimsun 
<crimsun> hi ajmitch 
<ajmitch> how are you?
<crimsun> beat (finals).  Yourself?
<ajmitch> I'm alright, though I've got to start packing for uds after lunch
<crimsun> ah, right.  I was beginning to wonder if planes had suddenly gained wifi without my notice.  ;)
<ajmitch> nope, not away until this evening
<bddebian> Must be nice :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: flying isn't
<ajmitch> and for some reason my cell phone has decided to lose all the phone numbers that were stored on it
<ajmitch> which is mildly annoying
<crimsun> d'oh
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: You have cell phones in NZ, or are you just translating into USese?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: we call them either cellphones or mobiles
<Fujitsu> We just call them the latter.
<Lutin> crimsun : you meant merge it ?
<crimsun> Lutin: no, I mean the best case is a sync, but I doubt it can be synced (though I haven't looked for gutsy)
<Lutin> crimsun: the ubuntu version is a repacked package, the md5sums will differ. isn't it a blocker ?
<crimsun> Lutin: yes, but it doesn't matter anyhow.  People are screaming for 2.5.0.4 or whatever is the newest.
<Lutin> crimsun: ok, so basically wait and sync when the next new upstream version is uploaded to debian ?
<crimsun> Lutin: or manually merge whatever is the newest upstream
<crimsun> it's your call - you have the powah!
* ajmitch wonders if the ldap backend for mit kerberos should be ported to the mozilla ldap sdk
<Lutin> crimsun: hehe, ok
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-04
* Fujitsu thanks Lutin for being silly enough to take azureus out of his hands.
<crimsun> O:-)
<mr_pouit> :D
<Lutin> Fujitsu: I've never said I'd do it tough :) just curious ;)
<Fujitsu> I guess once we get the Debian one it might actually be a bit maintainable.
<Lutin> yep
<Lutin> I wonder if we can sync debian that easily though. iirc ubuntu changes include new binary packages
<Fujitsu> Check that there's nothing horribly wrong with the Debian package, and just eliminate the Ubuntu changes from existence. That's what I think.
<Fujitsu> We're not going to be able to sanely merge them.
<Lutin> sure
<Lutin> Fujitsu: do you know what's the purpose of azureus-gcj ?
<nixternal> is MoM up and rocking for merges?
<ajmitch> getting there at least
<ajmitch> the merge lists are still out of date for what's in gutsy
<zul> do do do
<Lutin> nixternal: if it's for universe/multiverse, you can use DaD ;)
<nixternal> Lutin: ya, forgot about DaD, hope he doesn't find out :)
<Lutin> nixternal: hehe :)
<zul> ouch..
<zul> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82-FJyniP7A
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
<Lutin> hey TheMuso 
<nixternal> bug 112232 & bug 111370 => available for Gutsy Merges you MOTUs who are around
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112232 in kst "[Gutsy MoM]  Merge kst_1.3.1-2ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112232
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111370 in xgalaga "[Gutsy MoM]  Merge xgalaga_2.0.34-42ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111370
<TheMuso> nixternal: Looking at the first one now.
<nixternal> thanks TheMuso 
<TheMuso> nixternal: Is the debdiff against ubuntu or debian package?
<TheMuso> nixternal: Attempting to patch either the sid or the current vesion in gutsy has the changelog failed to being patched.
<TheMuso> hunk 1
<TheMuso> The patch does apply cleanly to the gutsy version however.
<TheMuso> appart from the changelog.
<TheMuso> oh and debian/control failed to patch also.
<nixternal> TheMuso: against ubuntu
* nixternal kicks debdiff
<TheMuso> nixternal: Looks like its already been merged.
<nixternal> oh
<nixternal> didn't know that
<TheMuso> Well it wouldn't hurt to check gutsy-changes before you go ahead and merge a package.
<TheMuso> I'll reject the bug.
<nixternal> thanks
<TheMuso> np
<TheMuso> moving onto second.
<nixternal> I didn't see the email come through on that one, but p.u.c shows it as the updated version
<TheMuso> packages.ubuntu.com is not always up-to-date.
<TheMuso> The best place to check is feisty changes archives, as packages can be uploaded, yet not show in LP for a while.
<nixternal> ahh, bryce updated it
<nixternal> thanks bryce :)
<TheMuso> Updated what?
<nixternal> xgalaga
<nixternal> merged it rather
<TheMuso> So another reject? :)
<TheMuso> looks like it...
<TheMuso> nixternal: So yeah, check feisty-changes first.
<nixternal> has kst been merged as well?
<ajmitch> hi
<nixternal> hola ajmitch 
<nixternal> sure has...argh
<bddebian> Heya gang
<tonyyarusso> hey
<bddebian> Hello tonyyarusso
<tonyyarusso> What's new?
<jsgotangco> hey
<RAOF> hey bddebian.
<bddebian> Hello jsgotangco, RAOF
<bddebian> So, anyone seen this before:  linda reports it but no lintian error:
<bddebian> E: sdlmame-tools; Binary /usr/bin/chdman contains unneeded section comment.
<jsgotangco> heh i didn't notice the nick, i was like "wth does ROAF mean"
<RAOF> :)
<jsgotangco> err RAOF rather
<bddebian> :-)
<RAOF> bddebian: Sounds like the binary hasn't been properly stripped, or something.  But I'm no ELF expert :)
<jsgotangco> ok i gotta start my day and do some work ciao
<bddebian> RAOF: Yeah, that's what linda -i says but I am not sure what to tell the submitter about it :-(
<bddebian> Later jsgotangco
<RAOF> bddebian: Check that there's a dh_strip in there, maybe?  That's what's responsible for stripping debugging info, right?
<bddebian> Aye
<RAOF> I suppose you could always tell the submitter to work out what that error message is about :)
<bddebian> Gah, idiot, yeah dh_strip is commented out
* RAOF strikes again!
* bddebian turns in his MOTU badge again :'-(
<jmg> i had to pick a hostname for this box that referenced i had to go through hell to get it
<jmg> [root@soulcube ~] #
<ajmitch> jmg: I'm afraid many won't get that reference
<jmg> why are you afraid?
<jmg> are you a hell monster?
<ajmitch> you'll need to kill a few to power it
<jdong> jmg: he would be doomed.
<jmg> i'm already knee deep in the dead
<jdong> jmg: I just washed up in the shores of hell
<jdong> omg we're such dorks :)
<bddebian> Hellraiser?
<zul> shawn of the dead?
<jmg> Doom 3
<RAOF> I never finished that.
<jdong> that's what....
<jdong> must...resist....
* RAOF got *tremendously* bored of poorly lit hallways with predictably trapped goodies.
<jdong> RAOF: agreed
<jdong> it was very exciting for the first 10 minutes
<jdong> but then it just got old
* bddebian never played anything past Doom
<jmg> the problem with that game was they failed to ship it with an essential accessory - a square of acid
<jdong> same pattern of going into a dark dark room, hitting a trigger point, monster out of nowhere
<jmg> meaning you had to acquire it from a third party
<jdong> and, haven't they ever heard of tactical flashlights?
<jdong> you get this big maglite that doesn't really work, and can't shoot while holding it.
<jmg> jdong: and you cant clobber monsters with it
<jmg> the story was cool
<jmg> it was very like SS2
<jmg> or marathon
<RAOF> I never really got got into the story.  But SS2 was *awesome*
<jmg> yeah
* RAOF still plays that occasionally.  "lllloook at you, hacker..."
<jmg> the two things i learned about acid safety
<jmg> 1. do not watch the philadelphia experiment
* RAOF once again considers the feasibility of a shodan GStreamer filter.
<jmg> 2. absolutely never, under any circumstances, attempt to play system shock 2.
<RAOF> That could get disturbing.
* bddebian points everyone towards Oblivion
<jmg> i cant wait for bioshock
<jmg> SS2 failed to run under wine when i tried it
* chillywilly pokes bddebian in his oblivion
<bddebian> w00t
<ajmitch> I hate packing
<ajmitch> hi Amaranth 
<Amaranth> hey
<Amaranth> anyone landing in sevilla at around 1pm on saturday?
<Amaranth> +/- 1 hour or so
<ajmitch> nope, 11pm
<bddebian> Hello Amaranth
<Amaranth> wow am i the only one getting there early? :)
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> there are people already there
<Amaranth> i mean early on saturday
<Amaranth> everyone is either already there or gets there late at night
<ajmitch> who else do you know of who gets there at night?
<Amaranth> pricechild
<Amaranth> but he is going to train iirc
<ajmitch> ah
* ajmitch wants to share a taxi from the airport if possible
<chillywilly> where are you guys going?
<ajmitch> seville
<ajmitch> (spain)
<chillywilly> why?
<ajmitch> ubuntu developers summit
<bddebian> To Hell if I don't change my ways ;-P
<chillywilly> dev conference or somethin'?
<chillywilly> gotcha
<chillywilly> bddebian: that's bad doctrine ;P
<bddebian> chillywilly: Amen brotha :)
<chillywilly> ajmitch: you can afford to go all the way to spain but you can't afford to come visit me?
<chillywilly> sheeeeit
<ajmitch> chillywilly: you think I'm paying to go to spain?
<chillywilly> hehehh
<ajmitch> this one's on canonical
<chillywilly> mr. shuttleworth needs to send some of that fat cash my way
<chillywilly> I really think all of ubuntu should make the shift to some cool packaging technology like conary :)
<gpocentek> good morning
<bddebian> Heya gpocentek
<gpocentek> hello bddebian :)
<viviersf> erf
<viviersf> morning guys
<bddebian> Hello viviersf
<viviersf> im up way to early for my liking
<ajmitch> you're mad
<ranf> hello
<bddebian> Hello ranf
<ranf> hi bddebian 
<ranf> My pkg upstream has a problem with copyright. See http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4990 Is it enough if he includes the full text of the GPLv2 as "license.txt"?
<superm1> Hi guys, are there any MOTUs around that would be up for a revu?
<bddebian> ranf: I believe it should be, provided it is all covered under the GPL
<ranf> ATM he's got two lines in license.txt: saying dl the license from my homepage. it is GPL.
<bddebian> I believe it needs the preamble in the source files also, no?
<persia> ranf: I think all the source files are supposed to have the GPL header also.
* bddebian is not a license expert
<bddebian> superm1: What package?
<ranf> persia, he says his package multitail doesn't have this. But is in Debian and Ubuntu. 
<superm1> http://revu.tauware.de./details.py?upid=4910
<superm1> bddebian, ^
<ranf> persia, I browsed fsf.org and found only this: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WhyMustIInclude
<imbrandon> superm1: you mean http://revu.tauware.de./details.py?upid=4988 ? heh 4910 is for your old upload
<gpocentek> ranf: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl.html#SEC4
<imbrandon> moins all
<superm1> ah yes imbrandon 
<superm1> just grabbed from FF history :)
<bddebian> Goddamnit, not again
<imbrandon> ?
<bddebian> Why do people use those stupid urls and not just tell me the frickin' packagename? :-)
<superm1> haha.  mythbuntu-artwork-usplash
<imbrandon> mythbuntu-artwork-usplash
<crimsun> shall we have an "obfuscate the url" contest in bddebian's honor?
<imbrandon> :)
<bddebian> Yes :-)
<persia> ranf: I'm not a license expert, but I don't understand how multitail made it past debian-legal, as the only reference to GPL is in Debian/copyright, which somehow doesn't seem to necessarily reflect upstream intentions.  For justification for the source headers, see http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-howto.html
<bddebian> No knock on Debian but I have to admit that I'm surprised that the shape of some of the Debian packages I've seen over the last couple of years.  They used to be so hardcore about their packages.
<ranf> gpocentek, thank you both. I guess I send him these two links and let him decide then.
<crimsun> bddebian: have fun with http://www.pc-help.org/obscure.htm
<ranf> persia, ^^^
<bddebian> crimsun: Nice :-)
<bddebian> Wow, now THAT is a rules file! :-)
<superm1> amazing it still builds with just that huh?
<bddebian> :-)
* gpocentek hugs cdbs
<gpocentek> we have debian/rules with only one line for some xfce packages
<bddebian> scary
<gpocentek> :)
<ranf> gpocentek, which one for instance?
<bddebian> OK that has to be one of the dumbest exit messages I've ever seen.. :-)
<superm1> thx bddebian.  do i need to get one more advocate yet since hobbsee's was on my old version?
<bddebian> Yep :-)
<superm1> imbrandon, do you want to by chance ? :)
<gpocentek> ranf: the xfce4-places-plugin waiting in NEW
<bddebian> I wonder if searchandrescue actually works in Debian or if there are just no bug reports on it...
<ranf> gpocentek, how can I look at NEW?
<gpocentek> ranf: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue
<ranf> gpocentek, ah ok
<gpocentek> I'm not sure you can get the sources from there
<ranf> lokks like it is already through (?)
<gpocentek> no it's still pending (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=xfce)
<persia> Odd - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-places-plugin exists, but is empty.
<gpocentek> because it's still in new I guess :)
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<gpocentek> good night bddebian 
* ajmitch can resume packing now
* ScottK returns from an evening out to find spamassassin FTFS on amd64 and ppc.  Lovely he says, an opportunity to learn about two architectures he knows nothing about...
* RAOF would offer ScottK a shell account on his amd64 box, but (1) ScottK already has one (right?) and (2) it's currently off :)
<ScottK> No I don't.
<dsk> hello 
<ScottK> RAOF: would touch work differently on amd64?
<RAOF> ScottK: Aren't you a MOTU?  Isn't the ubuntuwire system (or whatever it was) for you?
* ScottK is not MOTU
<RAOF> Not as far as I'm aware :)
* RAOF curses his switched-off box.
<ScottK> hello dsk
<dsk> is this the official dev channel for ubuntu?
<RAOF> ScottK: If you'd *like* a shell account on an AMD64 box, I'll scrape your ssh key from launchpad and give you one.  But this evening, not now :)
<ScottK> dsk: (ironically, those are my initials) for Universe packages, yes for Main, no.
<ScottK> RAOF: Sounds good (later).
<ScottK> Here's the spamassassin story for anyone who might have an idea...
* RAOF listens before lunch.
<ScottK> The shiny new sa 3.2.0 ships without a BUGS file.
<ajmitch> there are no bugs!
<ScottK> Normally sa releases have one.
<ScottK> dunno.
<ScottK> debian/control installs the BUGS file.
<dsk> well i had some complaints about libcurl included in fesity fawn ? where do i report ?
<ScottK> err rather rules
<ScottK> dsk: Did you file bugs?
<RAOF> dsk: almost certainly file a bug againt libcurl on launchpad.net
<ScottK> So what I did to solve this problem (since future releases will almost certainly have that file) is add touch BUGS (with an appropriate comment why it's there) in rules.
<ScottK> This solve the problem on i386 (all I have), but the package FTBFS on amd64/ppc.
<dsk> ok i will do that ... :)
<ScottK> Is there some reason those archs and dh_installdocs might get unhappy at trying to install an empty file?
<RAOF> Not as far as I'm aware.  
<persia> ScottK: I've installed empty files previously with amd64, so it's probably something else.
<ScottK> persia: Thanks.
* persia retries locally on amd64
<ScottK> What it dies on is "cp: cannot stat `BUGS': No such file or directory" during dh_isntalldocs on both arcs
<ScottK> persia: Sounds great.
<ScottK> I note that it's still waiting to build on sparc and ia64, so I may have more failures ahead of me.
<ScottK> But it was great on i386....
<ajmitch> it should probably fail on anything ~i386
<ajmitch> s/~/!/
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> Any idea why?
<ajmitch> i386 is special as it builds arch: all packages
<ScottK> So maybe my touch is in the wrong spot in rules and it only works for arch: all.
<ScottK> Hmmmmm
* ajmitch checks
<ScottK> Yes.  I think that's exactly it.
<ajmitch> ScottK: quite right
<ajmitch> it's only in the arch-indep rules
<ScottK> ajmitch: So if I add touch BUGS above line 182  (in binary arch) that should fix it?
<ScottK> persia: I think we have it figured.
<ajmitch> or configure, or some other rule
<ScottK> ajmitch: Does that mean any of those would work or it's one of them?
<ajmitch> anything that always runs
<persia> ScottK: OK.  BTW, 3.2.0-0ubuntu1 worked for me.  The big difference was that I didn't get "make[1] : `spamc/spamc' is up to date." after the "optional module missing" errors, and as a result, ran dh_installdocs -i prior to dh_installdocs -a.
<ScottK> OK.  Well then if I put it right before dh_installdocs -a that ought to be save because then it must run when dh_installdocs runs.  
<ScottK> persia and ajmitch - thanks.
<persia> Reading backscroll, that's because I rand binary-indep locally as well.  Sorry for the confusion.
<ajmitch> this is one area where building on the buildds is different than pbuilder
* TheMuso pricks up his ears
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Whats different?
<ajmitch> whether arch: all is built or not
<persia> ScottK: You might want it in configure: just to be clear it is required, rather than a special step just before installing the docs.
<ajmitch> iirc it's not built on !i386
<Lathiat> sounds right
<ScottK> OK
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Ah ok. Don't think that will solve my weird ass ardour problem then.
<persia> Could someone with a DE keyboard tell me where the / key is?
<ScottK> So I put it in build-arch-stamp: configure, right?
<dsk> ScottK : did the bug filing 
<ScottK> OK.
<persia> ScottK: I'd put it under configure: (before configure-stamp:), but that's just my opinion.
* ScottK learns something every time he packages something ...
* ScottK looks
<ranf> Shift+7
<ScottK> persia: Would you give me a line number where you are thinking?
<persia> ScottK: I'd insert two lines between 37 and 38, the first containing touch, and the second blank.
<ScottK> persia: That would cover both indep and binary arch, right?
<ScottK> So I can just move my existing touch there?
<persia> ScottK: Should.  configure: is always run.
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.  We'll try taht.
<persia> ranf: Thanks.
<ScottK> OK. I think I got it.  Bug #112258 is ready for UUS review.  I'm going to bed, so if there are problems, I'll read the scrollback in the morning.
<ScottK> Thanks for all the help persia and ajmitch
<ajmitch> np
<persia> all credit belongs to ajmitch
<ajmitch> nah
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112258 in spamassassin "3.2.0-0ubuntu1 FTBFS on amd64 and ppc" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112258
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I'll look at that if you are busy.
* ScottK just realized I did the changelog for Feisty, not Gutsy.
* ScottK can fix if you want first?
<TheMuso> Please.
<jmg> #1
<ScottK> TheMuso: Done.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Thanks
<ScottK> Good night and thanks.
<joejaxx> Good Morning Everyone
<RAOF> Good afternoon joejaxx :)
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> it is 2am here
<RAOF> You're living in the wrong place, then.  For me, it's always about 5ish on a Friday afternoon :)
<joejaxx> :)
<jmg> for me its always 16:20
<crimsun> and for me, it's always HUG DAY
<crimsun> or maybe that's just my escapism screaming at these alsa bugs.
<RAOF> Heh, poor crimsun and his ALSA bugs.
<crimsun> it would be a little bit better if people opened support tickets instead of filing bugs
<persia> My sound doesn't work.  Fix it now, now, now! :)
* ajmitch hugs crimsun 
<ajmitch> jmg: what a surprise
<jsgotangco> what's the hottest temp a cpu can take? (sorry its OT)
<RAOF> jsgotangco: Anything less than the melting point of silicon :P
<jsgotangco> right heh
<RAOF> But < 70 odd centigrade is (AFAIK) generally considered adequate.
<ajmitch> ok, see you in sevilla
<RAOF> Happy travels
* ajmitch detaches
<joejaxx> ajmitch: see you :)
* RAOF wonders vaguely why celcius == centigrade
<jsgotangco> have a good trip
<dholbach> good morning
<robitaille> RAOF,  centigrade is actually obsolete in favour of celsius according to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centigrade
<robitaille> I learn new useless things every day....
<man-di> MoM is active now? and packages are merged automatically (where appropriate)?
<crimsun> you might be mugged at gunpoint one fine afternoon, and the perp just might return your wallet if you knew that centigrade is actually obsolete in favour of celsius
<geser> man-di: seems MoM is running again, but we have now also DaD (http://adrishost.homeip.net/DaD/merges/)
<persia> 1 degree Celsius = 0.99974 degrees centigrade.
<TheMuso> and Mom is still a bit out of date.
<TheMuso> There are merges listed there that I've already done.
<TheMuso> as an example...
<geser> man-di: it's only a help for the merging as it must be reviewed and uploaded by a dev
<man-di> geser: interesting but it doesn show most of packages needing merging (as can be seen on http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/java.html)
<RAOF> Oh, and there's a unicode "degrees C" character.
<jml> RAOF: now all you need to do is figure out how to type it using the compose key :)
<persia> I've generated a new audacity merge package.  It appears to work on i386 just fine (but my vmware sound is not really a good test), and fails with memory errors on amd64, unless I run under valgrind, in which case it works, if a bit slow for proper testing.  Does anyone have any suggestions on debugging this?
<crimsun> ooh
<jml> persia: 1 degree Celsius = 1 degree centigrade
<crimsun> persia: can you recompile with noopt?
<persia> jmk: No.  Centigrade is defined as 100 degrees between the boiling and freezing points of water at 1 atmosphere.  Celsius is defined in terms of Kelvin (see previous link).
<persia> crimsun: Thanks.  I'll try that.  I must head off soon, so I probably won't have the results for many hours.  What should I expect?
<geser> man-di: have you only checked universe or also main on MoM?
<man-di> patches.ubuntu.com contains the diffs/patches to look at that I need
<crimsun> persia: hopefully it won't be reproducible
<persia> crimsun: Ah.  If that works, I suppose I add that to the build options in debian/rules and test again before upload?
<crimsun> well, then it's time to go cvs/svn snarfing
<crimsun> I can dig up an em64t for testing later today
<persia> crimsun: I probably have to grab patches anyway for a couple other things :)  Should I expect different behaviour on em64t than amd64?
<RAOF> Isn't em64t the same ISA as amd64?
<slomo> siretart: ping? can you take a look at http://librarian.launchpad.net/7548262/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-amd64.gst-plugins-bad-multiverse0.10_0.10.4%2Bcvs20070502-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ? seems that x264 is broken
<RAOF> jml: Damn you, now you've got me playing with the compose key >:(
<crimsun> persia: identical, or intel really fubared
<jml> RAOF: :D
<jml> RAOF: what I _actually_ want to do is for you to find some sort of guide on using the compose key for me:)
<persia> crimsun: No worries then.  When I'm all done, I'd appreciate testing on i386 and ppc (as I only have virtual environments for those), but my mail dev environment is amd64.
<persia> s/mail/main/g
<persia> crimsun: Thanks again for all your help with this (and all the other issues).
<RAOF> jml: What is there to know (apart from crazy stuff like deg C)?  Compose + c + , => cidilla, etc.
<siretart> slomo: is x264 out of NEW already?
<jml> RAOF: ellipsis
<slomo> siretart: no... ok, let's wait then ;)
<jml> RAOF: en-dash is "Compose c - - ." for example
<man-di> can someone give me a link to an explanation why Ubuntu sometimes use build1 instead of ubuntu1?
<jml> RAOF: that is kind of weird
<StevenK> siretart: So, do you feel like doing some mailman admin? :-)
<jml> RAOF: and there's no help on it at all
<StevenK> man-di: The package doesn't require Ubuntu changes, only a rebuild.
<StevenK> man-di: buildX packages can still be synced, since there is no Ubuntu changes.
<man-di> StevenK: thx
<geser> man-di: build1 is used when a package needs only a rebuild (like in transistions) and ubuntu1 when Ubuntu introduced changes
<man-di> so its the same as +b1 in Debian
<StevenK> man-di: Close enough, yes.
<StevenK> Except that +b1 is for one arch only.
<man-di> StevenK: there are rebuilds in debian that affected all archs
<man-di> so its not limited to one arch
<man-di> its just an additional feature
<StevenK> Of course, but it requires a build on each.
<man-di> StevenK: in Ubuntu
<siretart> slomo: the updated ffmpeg I uploaded some days ago requires the NEW x264 as well. I'd suggest to add a versioned build depends on everything B-D'ing on x264
* man-di feels like jumping back and forth between different worlds
<siretart> slomo: x264 recently entered debian (we had marillat before), and many debian packages are starting to depend on the (surprise) debian version
<siretart> StevenK: sure, what's up?
<StevenK> siretart: ubuntu-universe-sponsors has moved to lists.u.c
<StevenK> siretart: Would you mind disabling/removing the list on lists.tauware.de
<StevenK> ?
<slomo> siretart: yeah noticed that... for whatever reason it was accepted in debian but ffmpeg had to disable some encoders ;)
<siretart> StevenK: I'll remove the list and send you a tarball with the archives, okay?
<StevenK> siretart: I was thinking about that - the archives are in the bugs, so I don't think I need them.
<siretart> slomo: are you coming to debconf this year?
<siretart> perhaps we can have a bof about this
<siretart> StevenK: ok
<StevenK> siretart: But mail them if you like..
<slomo> siretart: nope... but do you know if xvid is planned to be uploaded to debian too?
<siretart> slomo: no idea. sorry
<slomo> siretart: btw, i uploaded a seahorse without the gpg-agent conflict yesterday... won't make everything much better but at least seahorse and kde can now be installed again together ;) i still have to find a better solution
<Lathiat> seahorse as an ssh agent > *
<Amaranth> seahorse r0xz0r j00 s0xz0r
<Amaranth> or however you say that ;)
<siretart> StevenK: sent, should be in your inbox soon
<siretart> StevenK: list removed, btw
<siretart> slomo: so it is still started via xsession.d?
<siretart> slomo: well, in this state, we at least don't need to recompile the packages, this way we only need to delete the xsession.d file (via cfengine)
<mzung1> Hi all, not sure if this is the appropriate chan - but here goes:  i've a dapper server, with a telephony card, and am trying to install bayonne.  I have a customised ver, which compiled no probs on the old server (SuSE 8), but i get errors when compiling on dapper - ok, step back - let's try the dapper version - sudo apt-get source bayonne , sudo apt-get build-dep bayonne - and this also has the same failure, which i find strang
<Burgundavia> hmm
<RAOF> Does the (binary) dapper package work fine?
<mzung1> yes, as far as it goes
<RAOF> Or is the whole package just broken, and you're the first to try it? :)
<mzung1> maybe!
<RAOF> So it's the patched version which fails to build correctly?
<mzung1> the binary installs, and runs
<mzung1> both ubuntu-patched and vanilla fail
<Amaranth> !info bayonne
<ubotu> bayonne: Telephony server of the GNU project. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.16-6build2 (feisty), package size 406 kB, installed size 1412 kB
<Amaranth> that looks evil
<slomo> siretart: yes
<s-ndh-c> do i just write those commands for control@bugs.debian.org into the mailbody?
<mzung1> i haven't tried on feisty - just on dapper (the intended server box) and edgy (my pc)
<mzung1> the really weird thing is how did a binary get into universe, if there's a flaw in the build?
<mzung1> or (more likely) i'm doing something stupid ;)
<RAOF> It'd be easier to tell with some build logs.
<RAOF> Or at least some details as to what you're doing, *what* fails, etc :)
<mzung1> ok - remind me how to paste 
<RAOF> !pastes
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pastes - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<RAOF> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<mzung1> ta
<mzung1> brb
<mzung1> the result of configure is:
<mzung1> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19105/
<RAOF> mzung1: 
<RAOF> mzung1: Ok, and the build log?
<mzung1> coming....
<RAOF> Oh, apart from the root@ bit :)
<mzung1> (i'm in africa, and boy is the net slow!!!)
<mzung1> lol
<mzung1> sudo bash....
* mzung1 slaps head
<mzung1> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19108/
<mzung1> for the make
<mzung1> btw - the dapper build had a much shorter error list - but i'm not near that box :(
<RAOF> Hm.  Apart from the missing --prefix=/usr on the configure, it doesn't seem like much of an error.
<RAOF> Or rather, that all those errors are coming from the failure to find the cc++/script.h & cc++/audio.h include fiels.
<RAOF> Do they actually exist?
<mzung1> i'm assuming build-dep puts them in place?
<RAOF> You'd hope so, but since you're using different configure flags from the Ubuntu package...
<RAOF> However, it'd be good to check that those include files *actually* exist :)
<mzung1> what would i have to do to just attempt to built the same binary as is in universe?
<RAOF> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<mzung1> that's my first step to solving the prob, i think
<Amaranth> -us -uc
<RAOF> Check out the configure flags used in the debain/rules file of the pacakge, tool.
<RAOF> Oh, yeah.  -us -uc (but not having them won't hurt much)
<mzung1> ok - many thanks - i'll go play with it, and let you know
<mzung1> learning curve....
<BugMaN> Adri2000: ping
* RAOF goes to watch some SciFi.
<RAOF> Night all!
<StevenK> siretart: Thanks so much!
<jussi01> Morning peoples :D
<jussi01> If someones got a minute, could I politely request that they take a look at my upload to revu and tell me what more needs doing, if anything, to get it uploaded into gutsy? link is: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4999 (its my first package and I really want to have it uploaded) :)
<Kmos> geser: are you there?
<stgraber> gpocentek: Currently uploading the fixed version of the package, this one should be finally ready to upload :)
<ScottK> I was wondering if anyone would be available to re-upload the dapper-proposed fix for Bug #107628?  Pitti has asked to have it re-uploaded (see comment 28).  The correct patch is attached at comment 29.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107628 in lighttpd "DoS-vulnerability in lighttpd" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107628
<Adri2000> BugMaN: pong
<BugMaN> Adri2000: i correct debdiff for the bug of grcm, look https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grcm/+bug/62174
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 62174 in grcm "Wrong icon path" [Low,In progress]  
<ScottK> Adri2000: Would you be up to re-uploading the lighttdp fix above?
<Adri2000> sorry I don't have much time before I go back to school, and I also need to eat :p
<ScottK> OK.
<Adri2000> BugMaN: great, tested? does the .desktop file work fine? because I don't any other symlink in /usr/share/applications/, otherwise you can just move /usr/share/gnome/apps/Internet/grcm.desktop into /usr/share/applications/
<BugMaN> Adri2000: yes
<BugMaN> Adri2000: i installed the package and the icon appear in menu
<Adri2000> ok cool, so I'll upload in a few hours (after school)
<BugMaN> Adri2000: i try to move but the part that copy the file is in Makefile.in and it's better to open bug upstream
<BugMaN> Adri2000: thanks ;-)
<Kmos> someone checks this one.. i think now it's perftect: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5006
<Kmos> *perfect
<ScottK> Kmos: Why did you remove silence_undefined.diff?
<Kmos> it's applied on upstream
<TheMuso> ScottK: If I can be bothered setting up a dapper chroot, I'll have a look at that debdiff. :p
<Kmos> from 30 days to 25 days
<Kmos> isn't necessary 
<Kmos> TheMuso: can you check the ddclient ?
<TheMuso> Kmos: I've got two packages in my revu queue before I may get a chance to look at that.
<TheMuso> Actually, 3 sorry.
<ScottK> TheMuso: That would be nice.  It's already been uploaded once though, the archive admin just may have been a touch overzealous when he rejected it.
* TheMuso sets about getting a dapper chroot up.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<Kmos> :)
<TheMuso> ScottK: Which dapper repo am I pulling the source from?
<ScottK> Proposed
<ScottK> Kmos: OK.  I'd suggest add a comment on REVU to that effect.
<TheMuso> ScottK: gotcha.
<TheMuso> I'll get a chroot set up first.
<Kmos> ScottK: can you add it ? :)
<Kmos> i don't have my account open
<ScottK> Kmos: No.  Only MOTUs can comment on other people's packages.
<Kmos> ok, sorry
<ScottK> Kmos: Are you running Feisty?
<Kmos> ye
<Kmos> p
<Kmos> yep
<ScottK> Kmos: Would you be willing to do an SRU test for me? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pythoncad/+bug/108612/comments/9
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108612 in pythoncad "[apport]  pythoncad crashed with ExpatError in parse()" [Medium,Fix committed]  
<ScottK> Shouldn't take more than a few minutes?
<Kmos> ScottK: sure, pvt me
<_filippo_> where i could ask about a ubuntu main repository bug?
<_filippo_> i don't have too much time at the moment i'll file an entry at launchpad as soon as i can
<ScottK> That's what you should do.
<_filippo_> but maybe you already know the answer
<_filippo_> i want to remove gaim 
<_filippo_> but it wants to remove nautilus-sendto
* ScottK runs Kubuntu, so no.
<_filippo_> but i need nautilus-sendto to use gnome-bluetooth and evolution
<_filippo_> is there someone knowing the solution?
<_filippo_> maybe installing sendto from sources would work.. but i think this is a bug
<_filippo_> and has to be solved.
<_filippo_> afaik it was already on edgy
<_filippo_> and no one solved it
<TheMuso> _filippo_: Is there a reason you want to remove gaim?
<_filippo_> TheMuso: at the moment just to give a try to last beta
<_filippo_> but the reason is not important
<_filippo_> nautilus-sendto doesn't need gaim in any way
<TheMuso> Well it might actually. It may allow people to send stuff into gaim.
<TheMuso> I don't know, I don't use it. Just a guess.
<_filippo_> TheMuso: gaim needs it but it doesn't need gaim to work
<ScottK> Kmos: Thanks for testing that.
<_filippo_> TheMuso: other programs that need nautilus sendto optionally (like gaim) don't have it as a dependency 
<_filippo_> so why gaim does?
<TheMuso> _filippo_: You would have to ask those who packaged it.
<Kmos> ScottK: np
<_filippo_> TheMuso: i'll post an entry to launchpad
<_filippo_> TheMuso: i think many people will try to install pidgin these days
<TheMuso> Probably.
<_filippo_> TheMuso: and they'll surely encounter the same problem
<Kmos> Architecture Releases Mirrored
<Kmos> We have found no releases for any architectures on this mirror. This is normal if we have not yet successfully verified the mirror.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Got a dapper chroot up. Just got to prep a pbuilder.
<\sh> hmmm...grab-merge.sh dolphin results in nothing ;)
<ScottK> TheMuso: Great.  I'll be leaving here in about half an hour for the better part of the day.
<TheMuso> ok
<ScottK> I'll check back here before I go.
<ScottK> I'll check the scrollback to make sure it went OK though.  
* TheMuso watches his connection slow to a crawl while a 75MB tarball for wesnoth gets uploaded.
<ScottK> Thanks for taking care of it.
<TheMuso> ScottK: np.
<TheMuso> ScottK: What do I do with the bug once its uploaded?
<TheMuso> Do I mark it anything in particular?
* TheMuso is not up on security/SRU atm.
<ScottK> I'll keep an eye on the bug.
<ScottK> It's in a bit of an odd state.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Ok.
<TheMuso> I'll just hilight you once its uploaded.
* ScottK will also go bug pitti and remind him not to reject it again.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> TheMuso: I'm off for about 6 hours.  I'll check in when I get back.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Ok.
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<siretart> \sh: try removing the set -x from grab-merge.sh
<siretart> I noticed that some files seem to be missing, which aborts the complete script
<TheMuso> ScottK: You mentioned the maintainer change in the changelog, but didn't actually change it in debian/control.
<TheMuso> ScottK: I don't want to touch it until I've heard back from you about it.
<pochu> hi all
<pochu> TheMuso: thanks for the upload!
<TheMuso> pochu: You're welcome.
<TheMuso> I guess you just got the bug mail.
<pochu> TheMuso: yep :)
<afflux> these packages to merge listed at the link in the topic... if they have no comment, should I just take a package and look at it, check if I can do it, even if I'm not a motu?
<TheMuso> afflux: If you mean from Dad? I'd ask the person who previously merged it if they are working on it, and just haven't added a comment, but other than that, just go ahead and do it.
<afflux> jep, alright. I'll have a try tonight then ;)
<\sh> db4.5 / coin2 uploaded..
<\sh> siretart, will do
<\sh> siretart, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19123/
<\sh> siretart, and it looks like that it's really a missing file
<siretart> \sh: I've changed the set -x to set +x for me
<siretart> err, set -e to set +e, sorry
* Hobbsee waves
<\sh> siretart, now it works somehow but with some broken files
<\sh> siretart: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19125/
<siretart> \sh: query?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Heya! How was the flight?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: long.  and  got caught in security screenings *multiple* times
<TheMuso> oh fun.
<TheMuso> I'll bet you're rather tired atm.
<Hobbsee> not really - we slept a fiar bit on the plane
<TheMuso> Thats good.
<TheMuso> Hows Melissa holding up?
<Hobbsee> tired, i think
<TheMuso> Right.
<Hobbsee> she's grabbing a wireless key downstars - dont think they would give us multiple
<Hobbsee> we're trying to find out where the ubuntu education summit is too - front desk wasnt too helpful
<Hobbsee> but i'm not sure they understood us
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: heh
<Hobbsee> they understood us most of the time
<TheMuso> Whats the weather like?
<Hobbsee> 20C or so?
<TheMuso> Nice.
* TheMuso has just finished a fun revu session.
<Hobbsee> much sucess?
<TheMuso> A fair bit.
<TheMuso> Two packages are almost ready for an ack...
<TheMuso> One package hasn't had any comments with it yet, and needs a lot done to it yet.
<TheMuso> SO I got them started.
<Hobbsee> nice
<TheMuso> So when does the summit kick off? I.e spec sessions etc?
<Hobbsee> um...sunday, iirc
<TheMuso> elkbuntu: Hey there. Hobbsee told me all about the flight.
<TheMuso> elkbuntu: Hope you had a good trip.
<elkbuntu> TheMuso, babies should be banned from airplanes
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i'm not quite sure where she is...
<Hobbsee> haha, yes
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, i think it's underground :-/
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: eep
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: underground...where?
<TheMuso> elkbuntu: I know what you mean.
<TheMuso> elkbuntu: There were a few on my flights last year.
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: so we should come find you?
<Hobbsee> hiya ogra 
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, there;s a talk on atm
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: right.  who's doing it?
* StevenK notes he'd like to be in Spain.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: come, then :P
<Hobbsee> swim fast
<TheMuso> heh
<StevenK> Hah
<ogra> Hobbsee, arent you supposed to be on a plane ?
<Hobbsee> ogra: no.  i've already been on 4.
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> And Hobbsee says "Enough with planes already!"
<Hobbsee> ogra: i've done my plane duty for the day
<Hobbsee> AND ENOUGH WITH THE FRICKING SECURITY CHECKS!!!!
<elkbuntu> lol
* StevenK ears ring.
<TheMuso> haha
<Hobbsee> no, my shoes contain metal, but DO NOT CONTAIN EXPLOSIVES OR SOMETHING.
<elkbuntu> laughing at you at least kept me sane
<Hobbsee> hah, yes
<StevenK> Hobbsee: On the way back to .au from .fi, Singapore Airport got me to boot my laptop.
<StevenK> I was incredulous.
<Hobbsee> heh
<ogra> Hobbsee, you mean you are here already ? 
<Hobbsee> ogra: yep
<ogra> Hobbsee, come down then :) 
<Hobbsee> ogra: we're not sure where the education thing is though - apparently downstairs
<ogra> we're in the cellar
<Hobbsee> that requires finding shoes
<StevenK> Heh
<PhinnFort> StevenK: I hope you managed to put in a bit of advertising for ubuntu
<Hobbsee> hah
<ogra> bah, just come barefoot
<ogra> its warm enough :)
<StevenK> PhinnFort: This was in 2005, and I didn't run Ubuntu.
<PhinnFort> ah, ok
<StevenK> Then, I note.
<\sh> oh hobbsee on her way to europe :) welcome to the real world ;)
<Hobbsee> \sh: i'm  already there :P
<Hobbsee> \sh: when will you come?  :)
<Hobbsee> ogra: ok, we'll try to find you
* StevenK chuckles at -motu mailing list.
<StevenK> "If you MOTU have nothing to do ...."
<geser> Kmos: I'm now here, will look at ddclient later
<Kmos> geser: ok, thx
<geser> Kmos: I gave the debdiff for your last upload a quick glance and it looks good
<Kmos> :-)
<Kmos> geser: nice
<geser> I will look at it later but it seems it can be uploaded now :)
<Kmos> geser: thank you
* TheMuso may as well look at ddclient now...
<StevenK> And then, when ajmitch gets to Sevilla ...
* StevenK sighs at #debian-devel
<Kmos> TheMuso: nice
<\sh> hmm...I'm not going to sevilla...too much work, no money, and a wife
<StevenK> Those are my reasons!
<tepsipakki> StevenK: what's on #d-d?
<StevenK> tepsipakki: On OFTC, btw. Bad mouthing Ubuntu, take #487628576376
<TheMuso> Kmos: According to the debian maintainer field spec, the old maintainer field should be XSBC-Original-Maintainer. At the time that I updated it, the spec wasn't finalized, and Lure's script did that for me.
<TheMuso> SO probably best to change that.
<tepsipakki> StevenK: ah, that again.. I'm on #debian-x, but it's been polite for quite some time now :)
<StevenK> tepsipakki: Yeah, because the Debian X guys got so much help from us. :-)
<tepsipakki> StevenK: well, it's about time :)
<TheMuso> Ok. I'm off to bed. Night folks.
<Lutin> night TheMuso 
<pochu> night TheMuso 
<Lutin> heya jdong 
<jdong> hey Lutin 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya persia
<xxxxx1> bddebian: <o/
<bddebian> Heh, hello xxxxx1
* \sh hates kernel compiling
<\sh> on sles
<\sh> guys, have a nice weekend :)
<\sh> and have fun in sevilla :)
<saispo> :)
<saispo> no python-clearsilver maintainer in this room ?
<persia> saispo: Ubuntu is currently using the Debian clearsilver.  If there is a bug, please visit launchpad.net.  For help, please visit #ubuntu.
<saispo> persia: not possible to open a bug :/
<saispo> i try but i have an errors
<saispo> persia: clearsilver must be rebuild...
<pochu> !info python-clearsilver
<ubotu> python-clearsilver: python bindings for clearsilver. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.10.3-4.1 (feisty), package size 165 kB, installed size 424 kB
<pochu> !clearsilver
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about clearsilver - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<persia> saispo: Why?
<saispo> persia: API error with trac
<saispo> RuntimeWarning: Python C API version mismatch for module neo_cgi: This Python has API version 1013, module neo_cgi has version 1012
<persia> saispo: Yep.  That's a bug.
<saispo> :)
<saispo> persia: you have the power to rebuild it ?
<persia> saispo: Not directly, but I'll file the bug for you.  In future, I recommend #ubuntu-bugs if you are having trouble filing bugs.
<saispo> persia: ok, no problem :)
<Hobbsee> hey all
<persia> Hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya persia!  
<alg> Hi guys. Can anyone help me with re-sync'ing the REVU uploaders keyring? I've just registered my pgp key in the launchpad.
<persia> alg: I believe that most of the REVU admins are currently in transit to UDS Sevilla. (and it's Friday evening in Europe).  You'd probably do well to ask again next week.
<alg> persia, ok. thanks. I'm about to leave too. it's Friday evening in Europe. ;)
<alg> persia: btw, I seem can't find in docs what login should I use to enter REVU? The email I used to generate the key?
<alg> (I mean email address)
<Hobbsee> alg: the email attached to launchpad
<persia> alg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU provides some basic guidance for starting.
<alg> Hobbsee: great. I used the second e-mail to generate the key and confirmed it in the launchpad
<Hobbsee> :)
<alg> persia: yes, I read it several times and know it inside-out, but they say only "no password to enter", but no mention what login is :)
<alg> thanks guys, have a great weekend!
<persia> alg: Sorry then.  Hobbsee (as usual) has the correct information.
<alg> persia: :) sure, np. At least you are 2 of 165 who even answered. ;)
<alg> bye
<Hobbsee> gah
<Hobbsee> he needs to do a recover password first
<persia> Hobbsee: Now I'm curious.  Are you sure it is LP email, or is it the email of the upload (done with the key).
<Hobbsee> persia: it's both
<Hobbsee> it's the primary email on LP, i believe
<persia> Hobbsee: Thanks.  Last I heard, REVU & LP were still very distinct.  I'm glad to hear things are improving.
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, think they're getting better
<bddebian> Heya jellyfish2002
<jellyfish2002> hi bddebian
<Pici> Am I correct in assuming that Pidgin will not be backported(?) into Feisty, but rather introduced in Gutsy?
<Pici> I'm not looking for a definite, just want to change an ubotu factoid
<persia> Pici: As far as I can see, pidgin isn't currently scheduled for introduction in Gutsy.  Backports are handled separately, and packages may be backported if there is sufficient demand (although only to the backports repositories).
<Pici> persia: hm, thanks for the answer
<jussi01> Hello Motu's!!
<aaroncampbell> How long does it usually take for new releases of programs to make it into the repos?  For example, ktorrent released 2.1.4 (fixed major crashes) on April 23, I think Thunderbird 2 came out on Apr 17, and now Pidgin 2 (the new GAIM is out).  I'm wondering when we might see these (and I'm not sure which of these should be asked about here)
<Nafallo> aaroncampbell: thunderbird is in the repos, pidgin is waiting for Debian NEW.
<jussi01> Could I politely ask for a motu to check out waon on revu please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5012
<aaroncampbell> Nafallo: hmmm, I still have thunderbird 1.5, and I checked for updates (adept and apt-get) about 10 minutes ago
<Nafallo> nafallo@silverfairy:~ $ apt-cache madison thunderbird
<Nafallo> thunderbird | 2.0.0.0-0ubuntu2 | http://se.archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/main Sources
<jussi01> aaroncampbell: your running gutsy?
<aaroncampbell> gusty?  I'm on feisty
<aaroncampbell> jussi01: Kubuntu Feisty
<jussi01> aaroncampbell: IIRC, nothing new goes into feisty since it is released, only security flaws and stuff... so gutsy for those...
<Nafallo> aaroncampbell: what jussi01 just said
<aaroncampbell> wow...bummer
<aaroncampbell> I guess I'm used to Fedora...doesn't work quite the same
<aaroncampbell> gusty is still alpha right?
<jussi01> very alpha
<Nafallo> it's the development version
<ivoks> not alfa yet
<jussi01> heh, yeah, that...
<Nafallo> all the new crack will go in there, and you should expect lots of breakage and to be able to fix most of it yourself :-)
<aaroncampbell> Well, I understand what you are saying, but I REALLY hate not getting new releases for 6 months.  Unfortunately, that might be the thing that sends me back to Fedora.  They don't release as regularly, and they don't have everything set up quite as nice, but major releases of apps will be dropped into the current version
<aaroncampbell> Thanks for the info though
<pochu> aaroncampbell: you can enable backports
<pochu> so you have new upstream versions
<pochu> but they aren't officialy supported, AFAIK
<Nafallo> correct. they aren't. community maintained at best.
<Nafallo> imbrandon: I think jabber is down again? :-)
<imbrandon> Nafallo: fixed , thats it i'm moving to ejabberd
<Nafallo> imbrandon: \o/
* gpocentek is happy to see a lot of good quality packages on REVU
<bddebian> gpocentek: Uploaded them all yet? :-)
<azeem> w63
<azeem> oops.
<bddebian> heh
<gpocentek> bddebian: not yet ;)
<imbrandon> anyone made pigdin packages yet?
<Nafallo> imbrandon: seb128 are working on them AFAIK, and Philip5 @ #ubuntu-se has provided some.
<psusi> jdong: hey... I'm reading your new boot to ram wiki... nice work... I have actually been thinking of trying something like that myself lately
<imbrandon> Nafallo: linky ?
<Nafallo> imbrandon: no idea. I don't use his stuff :-)
<Nafallo> imbrandon: try philip.magicalforest.se btw.
<Nafallo> he might use the sub I gave him ;-)
<jdong> psusi: sweet
<jdong> imbrandon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootToRAM
<afflux_> lionel: are you working on merging your libapache packages (those mentioned at DaD?)
<psusi> jdong: I was working on an idea to divide the image up into a few parts that contain different levels of functionality so you can choose to only load a smaller subset into ram if you don't need the rest
<jdong> psusi: that is a great idea
<jdong> psusi: probably by using another unionfs between a tmpfs of squashfs'es and a mounted medium, we can make that a trivial hack too
<jdong> divide /casper into /casper/ram and /casper/disk
<psusi> like a minimal set might just contain required things for a basic shell, maybe fdisk, parted, and things like that you would want to use for a rescue system
<jdong> and union them together
<psusi> then you could have another set that contains basic xwindows environment, but not all the apps...
<psusi> yea, that's what I was thinking
<jdong> I love Linux; the ability to do things like this
<jdong> boot2ram only took me an afternoon of casper hacking to get working
<imbrandon> hrm converting an existing install would be nice
<imbrandon> instead of the livecd thing
<psusi> load the core minimal system into ram, then uniion it with the other cramfs on the cd... so you can do everything, but then if you say, want to insert another cd, you can drop the extended stuff on the cd and just run the basic stuff out of ram
<jdong> (during classes, but that's a different story...)
<psusi> hehehe
<jdong> imbrandon: converting an existing install would take rsyncing / into /casper/chroot, then installing casper inside the chroot
<jdong> I think that's all it takes...
<jdong> but most people have such enormous installs that it probably won't work out practically :(
<psusi> I've also been wanting to set up an alternate rescue system in an initramfs for some time, so you can pick from the grub menu a rescue mode that lets you defrag, repartition, etc your root partition
* jussi01 says politely, if someone would have time to check out my package that would be wonderful. I think its almost done :D http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5012
<jdong> psusi: that would be awesome; I am surprised at how hackable Casper is, I'd love to see some sweet casper-based systems
<imbrandon> hrm yea a /home on the hdd and the rest casper, but still syncable
<imbrandon> would be nice
<jdong> imbrandon: ooh, the /home would be a great addition, and probably very trivial as a fstab entry
<jdong> takes a bit of /etc/passwd syncing
<jdong> and then another good addon is unioning with a persistent medium rather than tmpfs
<jdong> which I think casper already supports?
<psusi> would be really nice to be able to save your livecd state back to a cdrw
<psusi> jdong: question... why rsync instead of cp -a?
<jdong> psusi: Puppy (I think) uses cdrw multisession
<psusi> really?  I'd be very interested in how they do that
<jdong> psusi: (1) more progress (2) I still think rsync is more reliable at preserving bits
<jdong> mostly #1
<jdong> rsync is installed standard on Ubuntu anyway
<psusi> ohh, you mean you like to see it estimate how much longer it will take?
<jdong> it shows you exactly what is going on
<jdong> i.e. how many more files to go
<jdong> how fast a certain file is copying, etc
<cbx33> hey guys
<cbx33> need some advice from the people in the know
<cbx33> what do you guys think of the AMD turion 64 dual core mobile chips?
<jdong> cbx33: the chips are okay, the mobos suck
<cbx33> yeh?
<jdong> because 99% of the time they come with ATI junk
<cbx33> ahhh tell me about it
<cbx33> I'l just check this one
<jdong> I am very biased towards Centrino on laptops
<cbx33> oh really?
<jdong> faster chips, better chipset
<jdong> very Linux friendly
<jdong> very Open Source friendly
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> well unfortunately this is going to be an XP laptop
<jdong> ah, ok
<cbx33> purely for the software it has to run
<jdong> well, then it should be fine
<jdong> the turion x2 is a good chip
<jdong> not as fast as Intel Core * Duo, but not bad still
<jdong> (probably cheaper than Core Duo)
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> do you rate dell ok?
<cbx33> http://configure.euro.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=uk&cs=ukdhs1&l=en&kc=&oc=n05153a
<jdong> dell is okay
<cbx33> 2Gb RAM...not bad ;)
<jdong> I personally don't feel comfortable with them, but that can be personal bias
<cbx33> see if we can get a rebate for Vista too ;)
<jdong> I worked a few years in a all-dell school district
<cbx33> you're right about the ati crap
<jdong> we were filling in like 3 or 4 HDD RMA forms per week
<cbx33> ouch
<jdong> and we had a few DOA's from the warranty service too
<cbx33> tbh the ones we've had...d600's have been generally quite good
<cbx33> where are you based?
<jdong> we had optiplex desktops, precision laptops
<jdong> (USA, Michigan)
<cbx33> out of choice who would you go for?
<imbrandon> yes, dell ftw, they support ubuntu :)
<cbx33> manufac wise
<cbx33> imbrandon, haha
<jdong> Acer makes good, inexpensive systems....
<cbx33> hmmm always had problems with the
<jdong> I love my Acer
<cbx33> hmm
<jdong> don't get me wrong about Dell -- I think it is fine
<imbrandon> dell dell dell, they choose us, we need to support them now :)
<cbx33> interesting
<cbx33> imbrandon, yes
<cbx33> 60 for shipping is a little funny
<imbrandon> ( and system76 too )
<jdong> don't buy HP/Compaq; nothing but trouble with them personally
<cbx33> yup i agree
<jussi01> cbx33: call dell up and say your not buying with out free shipping.. voila, free shipping...
<cbx33> hahah
<imbrandon> actualy we use a few thousand dell servers at work of all diffrent configs and such, they are great imho
<jdong> jussi01: sadly that works a lot
<cbx33> yeh like that'll work
<jussi01> jdong: I worked there
<imbrandon> cbx33: it does
<jussi01> it does work
<cbx33> jussi01, really?
<jdong> cbx33: I have been able to cut my cable internet bill by half with that strategy
<jussi01> cbx33: yes in dublin
<jdong> threatening to not be a customer is VERY effective
<cbx33> awesome
<jdong> and always worth a shot
<jdong> after all, what do you lose?
<imbrandon> worst they can say is "no"
<jdong> imbrandon: oddly our school Dell servers were very problem-free
<jussi01> yeah, and keep pushing - especially on highend systems...
<imbrandon> jdong: oddly? thats a good thing i would think
<jussi01> my dell has been great - everything works ootb with linux
<jdong> imbrandon: oddly, marking an inconsistency between their servers and desktops
<jdong> anyway, I don't mean to dell-bash in any way
<imbrandon> nah all our workstations are optiplexes and work great too
<cbx33> phoning now
<jdong> I would much rather blame students
<jdong> they probably did all kinds of crap to those systems
<jussi01> cbx33: good luck :D
<cbx33> indeed
<jdong> well, time to switch to a real computer (tm)
<jdong> 0% battery for the past 10 minutes
<jussi01> lol
<cbx33> transferring to UK
<jdong> I'm gona run it dead today
<cbx33> appsrentl
<cbx33> i'm in the UK
<cbx33> heheh
<jdong> I have a feeling the meter has lost sync
<jussi01> So no ones got time to look at my package?
<cbx33> jdong, heheh
<jdong> jussi01: eew.
<cbx33> hahah
<jussi01> lol
<jdong> jussi01: maybe none of us are that comfortable with our manhood.
<cbx33> i want someone to look at the inotify package
<jussi01> jdong: you know what i meant...
<jdong> ;-)
<cbx33> hahaha
<jussi01> waon package...
* cbx33 averts his eyes
<jussi01> hopefully uploadable now... after like 20 revisions
<cbx33> waon?
* cbx33 needs to package vcsfrenzy
<jussi01> does anyone know if there is lemmings for linux??
<jussi01> if someones interested...please... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5012
<Kmos> geser: thanks
* jussi01 begs
* imbrandon wonders if we should put a big note on REVU to put package names not upload url's
<jussi01> imbrandon: [22:01]  <jussi01> waon package...
<jussi01> i was trying to make it easier.... :(
<jussi01> but In future - no probs
<afflux> my gutsy pbuilder doesn't want to install (http://phpfi.com/231825)
<cbx33> well well jussi01 
<cbx33> you may just be right ;)
<jussi01> cbx33: how so :?
<ScottK> TheMuso: Thanks for catching the bit about the changelog.
* ScottK is back.
<ScottK> I had put it in and was told to take it out.  I missed taking it back out of the changelog.
<ScottK> Urgh..
<ScottK> New update momentarily.
<xxxxx1> bye all.
<cbx33> jussi01, well i got a bit knocked off
<cbx33> which equated to shipping ;)
<cbx33> so i basically got the shipping for free
<ScottK> jdong: Want some shiny new backport crack?
<jdong> mmm?
<jussi01> cbx33: nice!!
<ScottK> All the dependencies are already in Feisty  and based on the documentation, interfaces don't change - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/spamassassin/3.2.0-0ubuntu2
<psusi> hrm... question.... I have a gpg key at home with access to revu.... can I somehow make a subordinate signed key to take to work to upload to revu, without having my main private key there?
<ScottK> Some of the supporting libraries change a bit, but they are all there.
* jussi01 asks again (begs) if a motu could please take a look at the waon package... 
* ScottK is not motu jussi01, so can't revu, but I'd suggest just waiting a bit.  UDS in Spain starts soon and so a lot of people are travelling or busy getting ready to travel.
<jussi01> ScottK: thanks... Id forgotten about UDS
* enyc wishes he could sudo apt-get install curtain  and have curtain-hooks and curtain-rail auto installed as dependancies, with a preinstall script that sets the curtain-pole length ;-)  but seemingly ubuntu universe does not have control over irl curtains in that room... ;-)
<sacater> Sigh, i hate asking this :(, but anyone here got SIP or something similar, i need to test my router settings on SIP...
<ScottK> jdong: What do you think?
<jdong> ScottK: sorry, haven't looked at it yet; I wanna get this ktorrent SRU fixed up first
<ScottK> No problem.
<geser> psusi: you can have a signing subkey on your key but I don't know if you can easily split it and take it to work
<geser> that would be a good question for the gnupg-users ml
<psusi> I think you can, but would it be recognized by revu?
<bddebian> Heya geser
<geser> Hi bddebian
* ScottK makes a sarge pbuilder.
<geser> psusi: I have a RSA subkey on a smartcard and it works for normal uploads
<psusi> cool... I'll have to try to set that up then...
<jdong> ScottK: sounds good; file a bug agsinst product feisty-backports and I'll take a closer look
<ScottK> jdong: Will do.
<jdong> thanks
* jdong waits for pitti to show up again
* jdong has updated debdiff :D
<dothebart> hy...
<ScottK> Hello
<bluekuja> dothebart, hello
<dothebart> feisty is the latest stable right now?
<bluekuja> ye
<bluekuja> why do you ask it in #-motu?
<dothebart> is its /bin/sh a link to bash too?
<ScottK> No
<ScottK> dash
<bluekuja> yep
<bluekuja> dash
<dothebart> ah, that doesn't know 'source'
<dothebart> ?
<dothebart> somebody installing my citadel-webcit package claims that he gets this error:
<dothebart> /var/lib/dpkg/info/citadel-webcit.config: 79: source: not found
<dothebart> actually line 79 of the script is 'fi'
<dothebart> but there is a 'source' in line 27...
<dothebart> ah, yes. dash doesn't know how to do source. thats it, thanks.
<geser> but you can replace it with .
<dothebart> yes, thats what i did.
<ScottK> jdong: Bug #112456
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112456 in feisty-backports "Backport of spamassassin 3.2.0-ubuntu2" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112456
<jdong> ScottK: cool number :D
<jdong> I'll take a look tonight
<ScottK> Great.
<ScottK> jdong: I would suggest making sure it builds on sparc before backporting.  Still waiting on that last I checked....
<jdong> ScottK: heh I don't have any sparcs around :-/
<imbrandon> there is one on the community buildds
<imbrandon> want me to test build ?
<jdong> imbrandon: sure, that'd be awesome
<imbrandon> jdong: get MOTU dammit
<imbrandon> jdong: dsc link?
<jdong> imbrandon: I want to!
<jdong> imbrandon: just build gutsy's spamassassin
<jdong> sorry, don't have a dsc handy; got to go back home, bbias
<ScottK> imbrandon: I'll get it if you need it.
<imbrandon> jdong: talk to others for more than just me ( e.g. crimsun or whomever else sponsors your uploads ) but i'll be happy to vouch if you send the MC a email
<imbrandon> you've come a long way in the last few months
<bddebian> Later gang
<imbrandon> later bddebian 
<dothebart> hm, does feisty have a libsieve2? 
<dothebart> the updated chroot already had one...
<superm1> imbrandon, are you doing -motu stuff right now, or just dropping in?
<jdong> ah, good old power plug
<geser> !info libsieve2-1 > dothebart
<dothebart> mille gracie.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Updated patch for Bug #107628 is attached to the bug.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107628 in lighttpd "DoS-vulnerability in lighttpd" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107628
<ScottK> jdong: You don't backport new pacakges do you, just upgrades, right?
<jdong> ScottK: new packages are fine too
<jdong> they're actually less risk :D
<ScottK> Ohhh.
* ScottK files more bugs...
<jdong> as long as apt doesn't kill itself trying to install it :D
<ScottK> No, easy stuff.
<jdong> that'd be awesome
<imbrandon> superm1: just popin in for a bit
<imbrandon> i'm always in and out
<imbrandon> hehe
<Nafallo> lol
<superm1> imbrandon, :)
<Nafallo> I should not have though about sex there... ;-)
<imbrandon> Nafallo: no you shouldent have
<imbrandon> heh
<Nafallo> don't make it easy then... ;-)
<ScottK> jdong: You didn't happen to backport a newer python-support to Dapper than 0.1~whatever did you?  I need 0.2
<zer> i am trying to build Pidgin with pbuilder but i get this: http://rafb.net/p/y1zza230.html
<zer> if i compile normally, everything works fine
<imbrandon> SSL Library/Libraries......... : None
<imbrandon> and your trying to build with ssl
<zer> imbrandon: i also get the same error if i install gnutls-dev
<zer> he says "SSL Library/Libraries......... : GNUTls" then for sure
<imbrandon> your missing alot of deps it looks like
<imbrandon> i built it a while ago with : yes for nearly everything
<imbrandon> you should probably look at the gaim control file
<imbrandon> ( and others )
<zer> mh, okay i will add some deps. strange i can't figure out what is the reason for this error
<jdong> what kinds of plans are there for debianizing pidgin?
<jdong> i.e. deiban? seb128?
<zer> pidgin 2.0 final is out by the way :)
<imbrandon> i just told you its trying to build libpurple/ssl and there is no ssl support
<zer> imbrandon: yes, i tried with SSL support and i get the same error
<zer> an Pidgin-dev also didn't know what is causing this error
<Nafallo> jdong: seb128 waits for Debian NEW last I've heard.
<jdong> Nafallo: ok, works for me
<imbrandon> zer: your configure should look like this, i JUST compiled it
<imbrandon> http://rafb.net/p/aD6SuD49.html
<imbrandon> brb
<zer> imbrandon: thank you, i will try
<jussi01> Hello motu's :D
<psusi> well that's nice.... freenode just stopped responding
<zer> imbrandon: now it says the same http://rafb.net/p/Ol5ZZh73.html
<imbrandon> no its not the same, now its a perl message
<imbrandon> heh read the errors young padiwan
<zer> okay you are right, but: he has no reference to purple_*
<imbrandon> right it /looks/ like you dont have the perl-dev packages dep'd on
<imbrandon> in your build deps
<jekil> there is a list of to adopt/orphaned packages?
<imbrandon> jekil: in ubuntu ?
<jekil> imbrandon: yes
<imbrandon> jekil: every package in ubuntu is a group effort, since there are no maintainers there cant be such a list
<psusi> jdong: ping... you still around?
<jekil> imbrandon: great, thanks
<jdong> psusi: in soviet russia, jdong always around YOU ;-)
<psusi> lol.... could you sponsor an upload for me?  I have attached a debduff to bug #110335
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110335 in wxwidgets2.6 "index.html is a dangling symlink" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110335
<jdong> psusi: haha, I'm not a MOTU :)
<jdong> though I want to be
<psusi> ohh.. lol
<psusi> me too ;)
<jdong> wow is that a change in attitude for me ;-)
<psusi> thought you had become one already... I guess you're a slacker like me ;)
<jdong> :)
<jdong> I've always had some excuse why I couldn't commit to MOTU
<jdong> but now I think back and it all sounds silly
<imbrandon> virtualbox is nice
<jekil> but it haven't snapshot right?
<imbrandon> yes it has snapshot
<jekil> uh, great :)
* jdong had it kpanic a few times on him :(
<jdong> probably PEBKAC though
<jdong> didn't try to hard to get it up
* jdong looks at his last statement.... and rephrases....
<imbrandon> heh
<jdong> I did not spend to much effort getting it to work properly.
<jdong> s/it/VirtualBox/
<jdong> there. fixed.
<Monk-e> hahahahahahahahaha
<Monk-e> Oh.
<zer> imbrandon: so you think i need a perl package for this error? http://rafb.net/p/ZQ2lu018.html
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-05
<Kmos> zer: really don't know
<eolo999> Hi ScottK 
<zul> is there anyone not traveling to uds today
<gouki> zul, me, unfortunately
<eolo999> me, too
* imbrandon isnt
<imbrandon> heya zul 
<zul> hey imbrandon 
<crimsun> zul: me four.
<TheMuso> ScottK: You there?
<TheMuso> ScottK: Has anybody uploaded your fix yet?
<ScottK> TheMuso: Just got here.
<ScottK> Not as far as I know.
<TheMuso> Ok.
<ScottK> Hi elmargol
<ScottK> Oops
<ScottK> Hi eolo999
* ScottK reads the scrollback
<eolo999> here you are
<ScottK> TheMuso: No one mentioned on IRC they updloaded it.
<ScottK> eolo999: Yes, here I am.
<eolo999> lot of people waiting for you ScottK 
<TheMuso> ScottK: Ok, I'll grab your updated diff and have a look.
<ScottK> TheMuso: THanks
<ScottK> eolo999: Yes.  I was out.
<eolo999> so you had some ideas about my next class
<ScottK> Or at least that we could look together.
<eolo999> i was watching http://tinyurl.com/2us2se
* ScottK looks
<eolo999> aka https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=datecreated&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.owner=&field.component=4&field.component=3&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.status_upstream=&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&f
<eolo999> ield.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.tag=bitesize&field.has_no_package.used=
<eolo999> oops, sorry
<ScottK> eolo999: Maybe see if you can reproduce this one (may be another 64 bit only problem) Bug #112140
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112140 in pythoncad "pythoncad fails to exit when all windows are closed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112140
<eolo999> ok, i'll try to reproduce that...
<ScottK> If you can reproduce it, I think it's worth fixing.
<ScottK> eolo999: Make sure you use the package in the feisty-proposed repository.
<eolo999> ?
<ScottK> Add an entry in your sources.list for feisty-proposed and then install just that package from it and then comment it back out.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Ok looks good. Running through pbuilder now.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Thanks.
<ScottK> eolo999: That's where stuff that might be released to feisty, but needs some testing sits.
<ScottK> So you don't want to install all the stuff from that repository, just the one package.
<eolo999> i've pythoncad Version: 0.1.33-2 in my normal sources...
<ScottK> eolo999: The version in feisty-proposed fixes Bug #108612
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108612 in pythoncad "[apport]  pythoncad crashed with ExpatError in parse()" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108612
<ScottK> You want 0.1.33-2ubuntu0.1~proposed1
<eolo999> ok, .....
<ScottK> If you want, just look  on your sources.list and on the line for feisty universe, change feisty to feisty-proposed, update and it should be there.
<TheMuso> gah stupid me. Forgot to enable univese in the pbuilder chroot. :)
<TheMuso> universe even
<eolo999>  deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu feisty-proposed main restricted universe multiverse
<ScottK> Looks right to me.
<ScottK> Just remember, install the one package you want, not all the updates.
<ScottK> eolo999: If you can reproduce it and want to fetch the source, you'll need an equivalent deb-src line in sources.list
<eolo999> did it...installing
<eolo999> and sourcing
<eolo999> working on it
<eolo999> confirmed process permanence after closing all win
<ScottK> eolo999: Cool.
<eolo999> ehm, cannot test gutsy
<ScottK> No problem.  We are fixing Feisty right now.
<ScottK> New upstream version in Gutsy.
<ScottK> Once you figure out the problem, look in the source in the version in Gutsy to see if the code's the same.
<ScottK> Gotta run. Be back later.
<eolo999> ok.
<ScottK> Back sooner than I thought.  Might have to run on short notice.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Uploaded.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Thanks.  Now to go bug pitti to remember not to reject it again...
<TheMuso> heh
<ScottK> He's not around.  I guess I'll have to bug him later....
<StevenK> He's probably not around because it's 2:20am in Sevilla...
<ScottK> StevenK: That would do it.
<ScottK> Good night all.  I think I'm calling an early night of it tonight.
<jdong> rest up, ScottK 
<nixternal> ScottK: you must be ill, it isn't even 9 there yet
<nixternal> carry on shipmate
<ScottK> Not sick, just had a REALLY bad day.
<jdong> aww
* nixternal is waiting anxiously for his pizza
<nixternal> and guess what, it is here!@!#@
<nixternal> back in a bit
<crimsun> imbrandon: ping, would it be feasible to host a git tree on ubuntuwire for me, please?
<eolo999> ScottK, are you there? I've good news.
<ScottK> Yes.  Still wrapping a few things up.
<eolo999> seems it was easy
<ScottK> Cool.
<eolo999> do you want me to send you the diff?
<ScottK> Please.  I'll look at it in the morning.  I'll be here most of the day tomorrow and we can package it up.
<ScottK> Just email it.
<eolo999> ok , i email the diff (one word!)
<jdong> pidgin is on alioth....
* jdong grabs and builds
<eolo999> sent diff and marked bug as 'in progress'.
<ScottK> eolo999: Looks reasonable.  I'll test it and we'll package it tomorrow.
<eolo999> our time zones are quiet different...
<eolo999> tomorrow, when?
<eolo999> in that function self is always an Interface instance and never an Image so the the program never entered the if block that lead to gtk.main_quit
<eolo999> hey guys congrats me, my second bug!
<eolo999> ScottK, What I ask my self is how could the developer miss that?
<ScottK> Stuff happens.  The save fix I already did was just as simple.
<ScottK> eolo999: Next step is pull the Gutsy source and see if it has the same problem.  If it does, look in the upstream svn and see if it's still there.
<eolo999> but Ctrl-C every time you run 'your' app is quite visible...
<eolo999> sorry the question and the lazyness. How do I get the gutsy source?
<ScottK> eolo999: Change the deb-src line in your sources.list from feisty to gutsy, update, apt-get source pythoncad.
<eolo999> no way to not always change apt sources?
<ScottK> Yes.
<eolo999> i did it from ubuntu packages and then dpkg-source -x .......
<ScottK> That works too.
<eolo999> ok, so i did it
<ScottK> There is also dget too.
<eolo999> in gutsy it's corrected the same way i did it
<ScottK> OK.  Then that's as far as you have to look.
<eolo999> no sorry
* jdong kicks nspr
<eolo999> it was my version file in the editor
<jdong> stupid uninstallable libnss's
<ScottK> We've all done that.
<eolo999> it's same as in feisty
<eolo999> the
<ScottK> Then we'll fix it there too.  Yeah.  You get to package two fixes.
<ScottK> More learning...
<eolo999> i try to install and see... if it is true
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> If it is, the pythoncad source is available (IIRC) from svn at their web site.  I'd check that too.
<eolo999> confirmed bug in gutsy too
<ScottK> Cool.
<ScottK> Head off to the svn now.
<eolo999> ok
<jdong> HA! got pbuilder-satisfydeps to work on pidgin!
<jdong> SUCK ON THAT PBUILDER!!!
<jdong> ScottK: weren't you sleeping?
<ScottK> In theory.
<jdong> lol
<jdong> I've had a few cases where I apparently had a 2 hour IM conversation with a peer about code, but don't remember it
<jdong> "Yeah man, thanks for the ideas, I didn't know you are online at 4AM"
<jdong> "Umm.... I'm.... not?"
<ScottK> The key question is were you correct.
<jdong> apparently the ideas were quite sound and inspirational
<eolo999> downloaded svn, but i'll check it tomorrow (event today 3.40 am)...
* jdong shrugs
<eolo999> thanks ScottK 
<ScottK> When I was in the Navy I had a job where they'd have to wake me up to make decisions in the middle of the night.  I could usually remember I'd been called, but not what the problem was or what I'd decided.  Usually, I'd just quietly go in and review the watch logs to see what I decided.
<eolo999> seems code from svn keeps that line ?! Perhaps I AM wrong!
<ScottK> I'll look into it tomorrow.  Now at least we know how many bug reports you have to file after you get done fixing.
<eolo999> ok, I go to bed, thanks again
<ScottK> Good night.
<jellyfish2002> hi motu
<jdong> GAAH
<jdong> the build failed at the LAST step
<jdong> because of a few HTML files being in the wrong spod
<ScottK> Of course.  The one it fails on is always the last step.
<jdong> :)
<jdong> I'm convinced
<jdong> well I exported MAKEOPTS=-j3
<jdong> hopefully this makes pass 2 faster :D
<jdong> if not, I'm just gonna screw the -dev pacakges
<jdong> fortunately nobody has to know about my hacked up pidgin :)
<jdong> eew that didn't sound good
<DarkMageZ> lol
<jdong> whoa, pidgin doesn't replace gaim
* ScottK backports a package to sarge...
<jdong> argh, it didn't pick up SSL?
<jdong> wonder if just b-d on libgnutls-dev works
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jdong> looks like pidgin might actually be backportable
<jdong> it doesn't seem to fight with existing gaim
<jdong> though both installed is kind of awkward
<Fujitsu> Backported from where? It's not in unstable, nor in Gutsy that I can see.
<jdong> Fujitsu: I know, I'm predicting. It's in alioth SVN
<Fujitsu> beta7 is in Debian NEW, but doesn't look like final is yet.
<Fujitsu> Oh, it is now too.
<imbrandon> final is in NEW also
<imbrandon> jdong: its in svn ?
<jdong> I got it from http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-gnome/packages/unstable/pidgin/?rev=0&sc=1
<imbrandon> does it make clean packages
<jdong> the svn version ftbfs'ed me initially
<jdong> due to nss3-dev -> nss-dev
<jdong> and then it ftbfs'ed me building documentation.
<imbrandon> ahh care to share your 3 files ?
<jdong> so I err... hacked off that bit
<imbrandon> e.g orig dsc and diff ?
<jdong> imbrandon: still working on getting SSL/TLS support....
<jdong> imbrandon: but those were the only two changes I made to the SVN stuff
<jdong> nss3->nss in control
<jdong> removed the last line in debian/rules (cp *.html whatnot debian/....)
<jdong> didn't bother investigating why that step failed. stupid me.
<jdong> I'll see if it'll spit back a DSC
<jdong> if it does then I'll do it
<jdong> I kind of hackishly got the tarball so I'm not sure if dpkg-source will see it properly?
<imbrandon> ness3 seems to work fine in gutsy gaim
<imbrandon> hrm
<jdong> bleh, it clobbered the tarball together with the diff
<jdong> probably an underline.
<jdong> imbrandon: nss3 results in uninstallable in feisty pbuilder; ebook was apparently linked against firefox's nss
<jdong> imbrandon: http://pastebin.ca/471710
<jdong> pastebin; diff of my debian/ from the svn URL I posted
<jdong> svn://svn.debian.org/pkg-gnome/packages/unstable/pidgin/trunk/debian
<imbrandon> that svn looks empty
<imbrandon> i hate websvn
<imbrandon> grr
<jdong> lol
<jdong> :)
<jdong> kinda silly the webviewer can't proxy
<ScottK> jdong: I think what I'm doing to pyspf to get it to build in sarge would remind you of your bad old days of unofficial backports ;-)
<ScottK> Good night all (really this time).
<bddebian> Gnight ScottK
<jdong> imbrandon: aha, debian/rules, --enable-gnutls=no -> yes
<jdong> :)
<imbrandon> should be something like : --enable-perl --disable-silc --with-zephyr=/usr --enable-dbus --enable-gnutls=no
<imbrandon> --enable-nss=yes --enable-cyrus-sasl
<imbrandon> right ?
<imbrandon> i think your straying a bit too far , i built it fine earlier with the gaim debain/
<jdong> imbrandon: I want --enable-gnutls=yes
<jdong> else my gaim can't ocnnect to googletalk jabber
<imbrandon> sure it can with nss=yes
<jdong> hmm
<jdong> nss didn't work for me then :(
<imbrandon> SSL Library/Libraries......... : Mozilla NSS
<imbrandon> ^^ my ./configure
<jdong> how the....
* jdong grumbles
<imbrandon> :)
<jdong> I hate you.. in the loving way :)
<jdong> SSL Library/Libraries......... : GnuTLS
<jdong> good enough.
<jdong> lol
<imbrandon> well not good enough for the repos if we want to stay close to debian ;)
<jdong> it doesn't look happy with libnss-dev providing libnss3-dev
<jdong> imbrandon: good enough for my own computer :D
<imbrandon> jdong: http://rafb.net/p/WU0isf59.html
<jdong> imbrandon: you used nss3 or nss?
<jdong> (pbuilder?)
<RAOF> Oh, cool.  There's a mono plugin engine for pidgin?
<jdong> RAOF: yeah, haven't figured out what is required to enable it
<jdong> mono's going on its world domination campaign :)
<RAOF> :)
<jdong> I do have to say DLR/Silverlight really looks/sounds cool
<imbrandon> http://rafb.net/p/GTtX3l49.html
<imbrandon> jdong: adobes version is better and semi opensource
<jdong> imbrandon: those pastes are photoshopped. I reject your reality and substitute my own.
<imbrandon> jdong: want me to just package it for you ? lol
<crimsun> that's a dangerous road
<jdong> imbrandon: lol, please :). this on feisty?
<crimsun> you'll end up maintaining them, too.
<imbrandon> yea fiesty
<jdong> ok cool
<jdong> that does a lot of blame-shifting too
<jdong> I'm happy
<imbrandon> crimsun: thats what i was afraid of, a gnome app :)
<crimsun> don't be afraid of gnome.  Just its users.
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> ok give me ~20 minutes to see how this works
<imbrandon> i should have something you can test
<jdong> YAY MY PIDGIN FLIES
<jdong> YAY!!!
<jellyfish2002> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya jellyfish2002
<jellyfish2002> any more things i can learn from u?
<jellyfish2002> regarding the usage of linda & lintian
<jellyfish2002> i not really sure of it
<bddebian> How much time do you have?
* jdong grins
<jdong> bug 112511
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112511 in feisty-backports "Backport Pidgin 2.0.0 Final to Fiesty" [Undecided,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112511
<jdong> bug 112513
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112513 in feisty-backports "Backport Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 to Feisty" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112513
<jellyfish2002> will you be around abt 2 hrs later?
<jellyfish2002> coz i going for my lesson now
<bddebian> jellyfish2002: It's possible, its 11pm atm :-)
<jellyfish2002> okie i try to rush back cya later bddebian
<bddebian> Later
<jdong> "Tracker works without severe bugs (nothing like the beagle indexer),"
<jdong> haha
<jdong> I'm sure bhale would love to hear that
<eck> can someone explain do me how i can create a new patch for a package using dpatch? the wiki page isn't clear to me
<DarkMageZ> differences between gaim & pidgin besides the name change?
<jdong> DarkMageZ: some new icons, a few minor UI changes
<jdong> I am not impressed
<jdong> I have reverted to feisty gaim for now
<DarkMageZ> i've stoped using gaim altogether and switched to emesene
<plugwash> yes, the dropping of protocol from the status icons has created quite a stir
<bddebian> eck: Does it already use dpatch?
<eck> bddebian: yes
<persia> eck: Take a look at the xterm package.  You need to have rules like prepare: patch: and unpatch:.
<persia> eck: Or listen to bddebian, who knows well
<bddebian> eck: dpatch-edit-patch  make changes  exit
<bddebian> Then you'll need to add the newly created patch file to 00list
<eck> it appears that it does not use dpatch, since there is no 00list file in debian/patches -- is there something i should be looking for in the rules file (or elsewhere) to determine which patch system the package uses?
<imbrandon> cdbs?
<bddebian> Heya gpocentek
<gpocentek> hello bddebian 
<bddebian> eck: Yes, in debian/rules is there a patch: target?  Or as imbrandon says, does it use simple-patch-sys or any such thing?
<plugwash> eck is it a traditional rules file or a CDBS one?
<eck> i'm not sure -- the package is coreutils
<plugwash> post debian/rules up on a pastebin, i really don't fancy downloaing a package that big to take a loo
<plugwash> *look
<eck> sure, give me a sec
<persia> OOh!  DBS.
<eck> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19201/
<persia> eck: Use dbs-edit-patch to generate your patch
<imbrandon> jdong: ok package cleaned up a bit, patches fixed
<eck> neat, it worked
<imbrandon> and building
<eck> thanks everyone
<jdong> cool
* jdong has gone back to gaim already
<jdong> pidgin didn't really fly with me too well
<imbrandon> will let you test/guinypig when its done
<jdong> I'd want my plugins to work
<jdong> :)
<jdong> without a massive rebuild
<jdong> wow am I picky...
<imbrandon> what plugins ?
<eck> do i need to assign the patch a number prefix, or should i just submit the patch on LP and let the maintainer take care of it?
<jdong> libnotify, otr
<imbrandon> eck: just submit the patch
<imbrandon> jdong: you know you takin cycles away from my kde4 compile :) heheh
<jdong> lol sorry :)
<jdong> you don't have to let me have your package :)
* jdong snickers....
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> Greetings all.
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso 
<bddebian> Heya TheMuso
<nixternal> how do I go about getting bug 107552 into feisty-proposed?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107552 in krename "krename crash if i want rename files again." [Low,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107552
<ranf> hi
<minghua> nixternal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<nixternal> minghua: thanks for that, the "When" section is exactly what I needed to see there. No need to get that one SRUd then, I am testing the Gutsy package now and will put it on revu shortly for someone to upload
<nixternal> err, not revu, but will put in for a merge rather
<minghua> nixternal: also ask around when other people are here - I've never done an SRU so wiki links are all I can help :-)
<nixternal> ya, I have done a couple, but for some reason brainfarted on the idea of it for some reason
<ranf> hmm, my dput upload doesn't show up. I guess I upped both binary and source *.changes. Any admin hanging around?
<persia> nixternal: When you get a working feisty fix, attach a debdiff to a bug in launchpad, and advocate that the bug be applied to feisty.  Once someone uploads to -proposed, the archive admins will review and release (or not).
<nixternal> ya, I have already done that, but I don't think it is a big enough issue to warrant an SRU since it isn't sever
<nixternal> and if there is a MOTU around, can you please look into bug 112528
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112528 in krename "[Gutsy Merge]  krename_3.0.14-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112528
<StevenK> nixternal: Looking.
<nixternal> rock on StevenK, thanks
<StevenK> Closes: #xxxx is a Debian-ism
<persia> StevenK: Is there a document somewhere that indicates that we are supposed to use (LP: xxxxxx)?
<nixternal> heh, something I have been using and am used to
<nixternal> I have never been told to use LP: and nobody has every said other words in the past year about (Closes: #xxxxx)
<nixternal> seeing as it has 0ubuntu1 in the version
<StevenK> persia: There's a spec about it, does that help?
<persia> StevenK: Sure.  Which?
<StevenK> That's a hard question.
<persia> StevenK: I've looked a couple times since I first heard about LP: last week, and didn't find anything.
<StevenK> nixternal: Do you have an .orig for .14?
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> you want me to dput this?
<nixternal> err
<StevenK> dput it where? :-)
<nixternal> actually I made the debdiff against .13
<nixternal> sorry
<StevenK> Yes, you did.
<StevenK> You debdiff gave me pause to think when it needed patch -p4, too
<StevenK> s/You/Your/
<nixternal> hiya Hobbsee 
<persia> nixternal: When managing a new upstream vesion to fix something, I recommend putting the new package in REVU, and submitting diff -urN of the debian/ directories and a link to REVU on LP (or at least that's what I did for feisty).
<nixternal> persia: I am doing it the way I have been for the last year, and the way I have been shown, but if your way is the correct way, then I can do that
* minghua never finds a debdiff useful for a new upstream release, too much noise
<nixternal> minghua: I agree
<nixternal> minghua: but everytime I dput revu a new upstream release I never hear the end of it :)
<persia> nixternal: For new upstreams?  the way you've done it is typical for new revisions, but hard to look at for new versions.
<minghua> persia: no, I believe uploading new upstream releases of packages that already exists in archive is actually discouraged
<persia> minghua: Very much so.
<nixternal> minghua: and that is exactly what I have been harped at about :)
<minghua> argh
<nixternal> I used to dput revu everything at first, hehe
<minghua> I meant "uploading  to REVU new upstream releases of packages"
<Hobbsee> hi nixternal!
<persia> nixternal: Can you fix the bug without a new upstream?  If so, backport the fix patch to the old upstream, and only make a new revision.
<nixternal> persia: already have for feisty, but seeing as this is for Gutsy, to me that is rather rediculous, seeing it is just the beginning stages, the latest version fits nicely
* persia is not qualified to have an opinion on new-upstream foo for gutsy, except for libjsw.
<minghua> I wouldn't do -0ubuntu1 merges at this early time of a development cycle, but that's just me
<StevenK> minghua: If he wants to, it's his dime.
<persia> StevenK: but merging is difficult with -0ubuntu1, if Debian picks up the package.
<minghua> StevenK: sure, I am just lazy (to avoid asking for sync later) :-P
<StevenK> persia: Yup.
<nixternal> I am doing all that I can so I can finally go MOTU this dev cycle, and before I get drug off for doc work and KDE 4 work
* minghua finds out that krename is quite abandoned in Debian though
<minghua> last maintainer-upload at 2005-12-05
<Hobbsee> yay, krename
* Hobbsee remembers dealing with that
* StevenK likes renameutils
<StevenK> 'qmv -f do' ftw
<StevenK> It drops you into $EDITOR, and you can edit the filenames directly. As long as you don't change the order of the lines or delete lines, it deals.
<StevenK> nixternal: You could always upload krename to Debian.
<nixternal> StevenK: ya, I need to do that seeing as they are 5 releases behind
<StevenK> nixternal: Who's the Debian maintainer?
<nixternal> dunno, would have to look
<minghua> I don't think many will object if nixternal hijacks the package
<minghua> Maintainer for source package krename is Roman Kreisel <roman.kreisel@web.de>.
<persia> nixternal: I take back everything I've said about it.  Please upload -0ubuntu1 (as you've done the last two versions).  It will be a good thing :)
<nixternal> I hijacked it last year I think :)
<StevenK> nixternal: If you want to maintain it in Debian, I suspect either myself or white will be happy to sponsor you.
<nixternal> rock on StevenK, I will look it over here and get my Debian pbuilder/chroot rockin'
<minghua> nixternal: I think it's still polite to mail the maintainer and debian-devel list before hijacking, though
<StevenK> Yes.
<StevenK> I won't upload it if nixternal hasn't done stuff by the book.
<nixternal> oh ya, I definitely wouldn't try and hijack it
<nixternal> I will definitely contact the original maintainer
<persia> Could someone strong in CVS-fu pleaes suggest how I would extract each of the patches applied to a specific directory in a CVS repository?
<StevenK> By careful reading of cvs log
<persia> StevenK: Great.  Thanks!
<nixternal> haha
<StevenK> persia: It isn't really helpful, I suspect. :-)
<minghua> especially not helpful if there are many files in the directory, I think
<StevenK> Yeah, but that's CVS being brain-dead.
<minghua> using date is probably the safest bet?
<StevenK> Using revision numbers is safer.
<persia> StevenK: Actually, in my specific case, it is very helpful.  I'm not very familiar with CVS, and I am trying to determine the set of patches that my upstream applied to some embedded library source to determine if I can safely use the system library source, so I actually need to read *all* the changes to the embedded source directory.
<StevenK> persia: cvs annonate might also help you.
<StevenK> persia: Followed by cvs di -r<> -r<> <file>
<persia> StevenK: Thanks.  The output of cvs log looks easier at first glance, but I'll look at cvs annotate as well.
<StevenK> persia: cvs annonate gives you the file with usernames and revision numbers, so might help you piece stuff together.
<ranf> anybody of you guys knows what gets used for VOIP at UDS Sevilla? 
<nixternal> alrighty, I contacted Roman about krename in Debian
<StevenK> What's his last name?
<nixternal> I took a glance through wnpp and didn't see it listed and he hasn't uploaded or maintained it in about a year and a half now
<nixternal> Roman Kreisel
<StevenK> Ah, don't know him.
<StevenK> nixternal: You might want to update the bug report, if you're going to try for the Debian route.
<nixternal> roger
<nixternal> updated
<afflux> If I'm not wrong, I'd need a sponsor for bug 112449... Anyone here who could have a look at it or at least tell me if I can go on merging the other libapache-mod- packages mentiond on DaD?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112449 in libapache-mod-random "please sponsor merge libapache-mod-random 1.4-10 from debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112449
<lionel> afflux: no need to merge them
<Fujitsu> I expect that apache will be removed in the near future.
<afflux> ah alright :)
<afflux> I'll take another one for learing :D
<lionel> Debian have done the necessary on his side (changing shell from /bin/sh to /bin/bash)
<afflux> I saw the entry in the changelog but I actually saw now fix... seems I've been looking in the wrong directory. grr
<afflux> s/now/no/
<gpocentek> Nafallo: do you plan to update wave-look for gutsy on REVU?
<_filippo_> !seen Lamego
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen lamego - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<_filippo_> seen Lamego
<crimsun> who?
<RAOF> _filippo_: I don't think ubotu keeps activity logs
<_filippo_> crimsun: how does it work?
<_filippo_> RAOF: well ok
<crimsun> 11:50 -!- Lamego [n=lamego@a83-132-143-105.cpe.netcabo.pt]  has quit [Remote closed the connection] 
<_filippo_> thanks
<_filippo_> crimsun: thanks
<persia> Does it matter if Ubuntu packages don't support BSD kernels?
<crimsun> not really, but it is best if we deviate as little as possible from Debian source packages if the latter support them.
<persia> crimsun: OK.  I'm just getting complaints from /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk about patches to config{sub,guess}, and would prefer to avoid a possible future FTBFS.  I'll leave it alone for now (just a warning: the patches apply).
<jussi01> hiya all!!
* jussi01 is very proud of himself :D
<gpocentek> morning
* jussi01 's package (waon) was just uploaded :D:D:D Thank you all who helped :D
<jussi01> morns gpocentek
<gpocentek> congrats jussi01 :)
<jussi01> thanks :D
<jussi01> its the first one... so its a big thing for me ::D
<gpocentek> hehe, I know that feeling ;)
<DktrKranz> any u-u-s around to review a couple of merges?
<gpocentek> DktrKranz: I've just uploaded rsh-redone 
<Nafallo> gpocentek: I guess I should. kind of low on my TODO list though.
* DktrKranz hugs gpocentek :)
<gpocentek> Nafallo: np, I just try to clean REVU a little
<Nafallo> gpocentek: kewl! :-)
<gpocentek> I wonder if I shouldn't archive all the upload done before february...
<gpocentek> the list of package would be less scary
<gpocentek> packages*
<Nafallo> Adri2000: ping DaD, is there a way we could filter out packages that has it's own packagesystem in Ubuntu. gajim being one of those :-).
<ranf> hi
<ranf> My latest dput upload doesn't show up on REVU. I think because of a binary upload I did earlier today?
<crimsun> yes, you'll need the previous upload removed so that you can reupload source only.
<ranf> crimsun, I need an admin's help, right?
<crimsun> yes, and AFAIK, gpocentek is active.
<davromaniak> Seveas, are you here ??
<Seveas> davromaniak, yes
<davromaniak> you are the developer of falcon ??
<Seveas> yes
<ranf> he is not listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU . gpocentek: help please 
<davromaniak> with the new version (1.5.4-0ubuntu2), I have an error
<Seveas> davromaniak, on feisty?
<davromaniak> no, edgy
<Seveas> pm me the error then :)
<davromaniak> http://wklej.org/id/14e30601de
<davromaniak> oops
<Seveas> davromaniak, ls -la /usr/bin/python
<Seveas> what does that say?
<\sh> Nafallo, did you pushed gajim to bazaar somewhere?
<Nafallo> \sh: indeed I did. let me find the URL for you.
<gpocentek> DktrKranz: postgresql-8.1 8.1.9-1.1 (source) in Ubuntu
<gpocentek> DktrKranz: looks like your merge is not needed
<davromaniak> slomo, did you took a look at youtranslate ??
<Nafallo> \sh: sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-dev/gajim/ubuntu/
<DktrKranz> gpocentek, see 8.1.8-1ubuntu3 changelog entry
<\sh> Nafallo, which team I need to be in to push modifcations to the branch? ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: ubuntu-dev
<\sh> Nafallo, ah the usual :)
<gpocentek> DktrKranz: the package built fine on the buildds
<ranf> gpocentek, are you an admin?
<gpocentek> ranf: no
<DktrKranz> even with python2.5?
<DktrKranz> if so, we can manage a sync
<gpocentek> DktrKranz: the sync has already be done from what I see
<DktrKranz> whoops, didn't notice
<gpocentek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postgresql-8.1/8.1.9-1.1
<DktrKranz> I see
<DktrKranz> I'm going to close my bug, then
<ranf> \sh, could you please my remove my binary upload for "wtmptail"?
<DktrKranz> thanks
<jekil> hello
<gpocentek> DktrKranz: thank _you_ ;)
<\sh> ranf, I don't have any revu powers anymore...
<ranf> \sh, oops, what a pity.
<ranf> \sh, while i'm at it should I wipe you from the Wiki page?
<\sh> ranf, whatever :)
<persia> crimsun: Could I trouble you about audacity again?
<_filippo_> Lamego: ping?
<Lamego> pong
<Lamego> i am working on pidgin 2.0 right now :P
<_filippo_> Lamego: i've just sent you an email? did you receive it?
<Lamego> then i will read your email :)
<Lamego> yup
<_filippo_> Lamego: ah ok thanks ;P
<ranf> ajmitch, could you please remove my binary upload for "wtmptail"? 
<_filippo_> Lamego: i've posted a bug on launchpad about gaim-pidgin
<\sh> Adri2000, ping DaD : package destar and dolphin are totally broken (changelogs not  merged correctly) 
<Lamego> a bug on the final :P ?
<_filippo_> Lamego: no on upstream gaim
<_filippo_> Lamego: it depends on nautilus-sendto and i think this is wrong
<_filippo_> Lamego: i've installed pidgin but i cannot remove gaim without losing sendto features
<_filippo_> (like sendo to evolutio and sendto bluetooth)
<_filippo_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/112316
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112316 in gaim "Removing gaim causes nautilus-sendto removal" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Lamego> are you sure you build with the proper dependencies ? Piding has some tones of compile options :P
<_filippo_> Lamego: it's not a pidgin but a gaim problem
<_filippo_> Lamego: i want to remove it but i can't
<Lamego> ah ok, that bug description seems better
<Nafallo> why work on pidgin? :-)
<Lamego> Nafallo, to make it available for users in general
<Nafallo> there is always packages in the wild...
<Nafallo> Debian NEW has it, and seb128 is working on it AFAIK.
<Lamego> Nafallo, if you could point me to the .diff for it, it would be helpfull
<Nafallo> I would bet jdong will put it in feisty-backports when it's NEWed in Ubuntu
<Lamego> anyway I couldn't find a .deb for it :)
<Nafallo> I'll ask Philip5 about URL next time I see him.
<Lamego> until then its packaged :P
<Lamego> thanks anyway :)
<Nafallo> feel free to duplicate work then ;-)
<Nafallo> i just can't see a point in doing that :-)
<Kmos> learn how to package better :)
<Kmos> lol
<Lamego> Nafallo, hundreds of users see the point in it
<Lamego> can you point them, to a pidgin 2.0 package right now :) ?
<Nafallo> Lamego: hundreds of users should learn the meaning of "waiting" then :-)
<Lamego> Nafallo, I like that approach "easy, you just need to wait six months"
<Nafallo> Lamego: a couple of weeks before there is an official backport at most... ;-)
<Kmos> Lamego: not so long, it will be available for feisty in backports as Nafallo says
<Nafallo> something tells me it's on jdongs radar already :-)
<Lamego> it will be available this weekend ?
<Lamego> if not, than, is too old :)
<Nafallo> I said a couple of weeks. people are traveling to Seville atm.
<Nafallo> Lamego: you see, that's exactly why I don't like users...
<Lamego> so, so its not work duplication, they are travelling, I am building :)
<Lamego> unless they are doing it on their laptop :P
<Nafallo> hmm. I wonder if it might be in Ubuntu NEW...
<Lamego> Nafallo, that exactly what I like as an user, to be able to install the latest version as soon it gets available :)
<_filippo_> Nafallo: gaim stressed users with thousands of betas.. i think users aren't wrong wanting to try the final release soon
<Lamego> not because its new, but usually it fixes some bugs I am experiencing or provides some features which I need :)
<Nafallo> Lamego: because the version number incremented rather than the package provides features you need surely? :-)
<Lamego> Nafallo, read my comment :)
<Lamego> Nafallo, I do usually read the changelogs :)
<Nafallo> Lamego: you, I wrote my thing before ;-)
<Nafallo> Lamego: but new code == bugs, so not matter how many bugs they fixed there should be new ones ;-)
<Lamego> and you can be sure, most of people which spend time trying to compile a new version, do it because they need, not because they like to compile :)
<Lamego> Nafallo, sure, but in general, a new release, specially when final, releases a bugs from a series of testing more often than it introduces new bugs
<Lamego> i mean, includes bug fixes
<Lamego> that is way you have testing before releases :)
<Lamego> according to your theory, we should also not upgrade to a newer distro version, it resolves bugs, and introduces new ones :)
<Nafallo> sure, but I would still use what we have in the repos except I have a chance of actually getting the changes uploading. call me conservative but... ;-)
<Nafallo> no, I run gutsy right now. I do this because I try to find bugs and get them fixed before we release.
<Lamego> Nafallo, sure, same as me, unless i trust the package builders :)
<Lamego> the same way you seem to trust on the backports :)
<Nafallo> but upgrading from 6.06.1 just for the sake of it on a ordinary user... no, I wouldn't :-)
<Nafallo> I don't use backports myself...
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> or rather, backports comes from the distro I help developing :-P
<Nafallo> anyway. shower and stuff.
<Nafallo> *poff*
<Lamego> :P
<Adri2000> \sh: indeed, for dolphin it's because the ubuntu package is not based on any debian version (only 0ubuntuX versions in the changelog) and thus DaD doesn't find the "base version" and cannot create the patches correctly. for destar it is actually based on a debian version, but for some reason it didn't download it, I'll look at the log when redoing all the merges on the new server
<Adri2000> \sh: for the first problem (only 0ubuntuX versions in the changelog), we may try to handle that better in the future
<\sh> Adri2000, hmm..we should consider to mark them as "initial release to ubuntu, before debian...please be careful)
<geser> Adri2000: can you make the dir listings on DaD a little bit wider?
<geser> I use to look at the ubuntu patches when reviewing syncs/merges
<geser> but currently I have to check the url to find the patch as it gets cut off
<Adri2000> Nafallo: if you mean packages with only 0ubuntuX versions in the changelog (ie. no debian base version), it's the problem mentioned above. but in the case of gajim, it is based on a debian version (old yes, was during dapper cycle, but still).
<Adri2000> geser: yes I can, just need to find the right option of apache :)
<Nafallo> Adri2000: based and based... I think \sh dropped Debians packaging there already :-)
<Nafallo> Adri2000: anyway. is it possible to filter it? :-)
<\sh> Adri2000, gajim was special and is still...we are not matching with debians package...
<\sh> Adri2000, so all patches will be a mess for someone who has no clue about the package diffs between ubuntu and debian...
<Nafallo> the last time someone other than me, slomo or \sh touched it all our patches was gone :-P
<Adri2000> Nafallo: there are still debian changelog entries in debian/changelog, that's why DaD thinks it's "based" on the debian package
<Adri2000> Nafallo: and filter... add a comment "Don't merge" would be a good start
<\sh> Adri2000, http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_autoindex.html#indexoptions 
<\sh> Admiral_Chicago, NameWidth=[n  | *] 
<\sh>     The NameWidth keyword allows you to specify the width of the filename column in bytes.
<\sh>     -NameWidth (or unset) allows mod_autoindex to calculate the best width.
<\sh>     NameWidth=n fixes the column width to n bytes wide.
<\sh>     NameWidth=* grows the column to the necessary width.
<\sh> ;)
<Adri2000> thanks \sh :)
<\sh> Adri2000, np
<\sh> added now "DONT TOUCH IT"
<Adri2000> Nafallo: we could add support for an "ignore" file with all the packages we don't want to merge in it, but that's not yet written
<\sh> Admiral_Chicago, where can we find the source...I think we can help :)
<Nafallo> Adri2000: nice :-)
<\sh> Nafallo, added your comment
<Nafallo> \sh: ? :-)
<Nafallo> ah
<Nafallo> right
<Adri2000> \sh: in a bzr branch on LP, as soon as we have finished everything and moved to the new server (that should be done today, I hope)
<Adri2000> geser: done :)
<\sh> Nafallo, what do you think about a ubuntu gajim splashscreen ? ;) 
<Nafallo> \sh: naah. starts fast enough to do without :-)
<\sh> Nafallo, lol
<geser> Adri2000: thanks
<Kmos> who update the canonical commercial repo ?
<Kmos> bug 105859
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 105859 in app-install-data-commercial "Opera 9.2 is out with many bug fixes" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105859
<\sh> Kmos, canonical itself
<\sh> but don't expect people working on a weekend..
<Fujitsu> Nor during UDS, probably.
<\sh> no, not during developer summits...too much beer and other hot stuff ;)
<Kmos> hehe
<Kmos> \sh: the hot you don't mean girls surely :)
<Kmos> lol
<Nafallo> chili? :-)
<\sh> Kmos, no..but hard drinks (I remember different whisky during UBZ)
* \sh drinks now a beer 
<Kmos> http://www.getdeb.net/download.php?release=817&fpos=0
<Kmos> \sh: u're german? =
<Kmos> =)
<Kmos> hehe
<\sh> Kmos, you don't know...I'm german and most of the blogging time anti-american -,)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> nice title on this song.
<Nafallo> Imperfect breed of humanity :-)
<Kmos> \sh: nice, i was born in germany, but live since 6 months of life in Portugal
<Kmos> USA will destroy everything
<\sh> Kmos, cool...:) I visited portugal one time, Lagos...
<Nafallo> I want to move :-)
<Kmos> I hope one day I can visit germany
<Kmos> :)
<Kmos> lagos, hmm.. i think that's around Lisbon (Capital)
<Nafallo> maybe down to dead c0de :-P
<Kmos> Lamego is also Portuguese :)
<Kmos> the owner of getdeb.net
<\sh> Kmos, no...it's south...
<\sh> near the most west point of europe ;)
<Kmos> algarve :)
<\sh> yeah
<Kmos> where everyone goes in vacances
<Kmos> lol
<Kmos> I live near Viseu =) in the north
<Kmos> 8/9 hours of car from algarve
<Kmos> if next year the UDS be in Portugal it would be great, there are a lot of ubuntu users here
<\sh> I don't think so, that the next Developers Summit is in Europe...
<\sh> It will be somewhere else...
<Nafallo> after Seville will be US
<\sh> hey ivoks 
<\sh> so again Mr. Bush Junior country...why oh god why..why not ZA or Japan..japan has a great marketshare of linux regarding the LPI courses
<\sh> or cameroon is also ok
<\sh> or turkey
* persia would prefer Japan
<\sh> india is also nice
<Nafallo> bandwidth?
<\sh> well, this is a problem but nothing what couldn't be solved...
<persia> Everything but Cameroon above has locations with decent bandwidth.
<\sh> yepp
<DktrKranz> italy, so I can get there :P
<Nafallo> persia: even za?
<persia> Nafallo: I thought I heard something about networking there, although I haven't been following the fixed line news as much recently as in the past.
<Nafallo> according to the mirroradmin only the place with his mirror has decent bw :-P
<ivoks> hi all
<\sh> DktrKranz, you are from Italy?
<DktrKranz> yep
<ivoks> what's the topic of conversation? :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: Italy, it seems :-)
<ivoks> oh :)
<\sh> DktrKranz, well it's not far away from germany :)
<DktrKranz> or "the place where you get the greatest pasta or lasagna"
<ivoks> what about it?
<\sh> ivoks, decision for Ubuntu Developer Summits != US
<ivoks> ou!
<DktrKranz> \sh, it's only five hours in a car :)
<ivoks> italy would be nice - very close :)
<\sh> DktrKranz, Sdtirol? ,-)
<ivoks> (read: cheaper to get there; i might even show up :)
<Nafallo> \sh: you won't be making that decision anyway :-P
<\sh> Nafallo, that's right :) 
<DktrKranz> north Italy, but not sudtirol :)
<Nafallo> so why bother? :-)
<\sh> Nafallo, but I could give hints, why US is not the right place
<ivoks> well, i agree with \sh about US
<ivoks> its not that it
<\sh> DktrKranz, so area is around firence ;)
<ivoks> is far away, but these procedures...
<DktrKranz> just in the middle, near boulogne
<\sh> ivoks, thx ... that is one of the problems...
<Nafallo> Nordic countries would be cool :-)
<ivoks> :)
<Nafallo> like... Sweden ;-)
<ivoks> Nafallo: yes, in winter time, so i can bring my snowboard :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: you won't have time for snowboarding :-)
<ivoks> there's always time for snowboarding :D
<Nafallo> hehe
<\sh> ivoks, the other thing is, US is not against Linux...but other countries need to be touched by our linux love... 
<Kmos> \sh: Portugal is one of that countries..
<\sh> and they should leave Iraque
<ivoks> let's not turn this into politics
<Kmos> the public administration uses more windows that we like
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> do some merges people ;)
<DktrKranz> yep!
<afflux> don't really want to disturb you since I think \sh is right but wasn't there a rule on freenode or the ubuntu channels that we shouldn't talk about politics?
<ivoks> oh, gutsy... :)
<afflux> grr, i'm definetly too slow...
<ivoks> afflux: er... i wouldn't like that rule where we 'shouldn't do something'
<ivoks> it just mather of being polite
<\sh> afflux, if freenode or ubuntu are not allowing me to talk about politics, I would stop uploading packages or using this service...really
<ivoks> not everybody agrees with everybody
<\sh> afflux, nobody will stop my pushing towards democracy and free speech
<afflux> well, i think i at least read somewhere that we shouldn't to this in theese channels..
<afflux> (I perfectly agree with you two ;))
<\sh> is it written in the CoC ? as I said, I stop directly
<\sh> but as everyone know..I'm something between mad and a a**hole
<afflux> hehe
<ivoks> i'll start working on gutsy, as soon as my lectures on faculty are over
<DktrKranz> no politics in CoC, \sh will be still around :)
<ivoks> bbl
<persia> When using autotools, when there are embedded library sources, how is ./configure called for the embedded sources?
<afflux> Oh, it could be that I missunderstood a sentence from the freenode policy ("Unlawful activities and their related support activities are considered off-topic, as are inappropriate advertising, heavy media file trading, gaming and proprietary game software modding, warez, hax0r activity, porn and various forms of antisocial behavior, including (but not limited to) political, racial, ethnic, religious or gender-related invective. Off-topic activity may result i
<afflux> It's the only thing I can find where "politics" are mentioned ,)
<persia> afflux: The critical word is invective.  Note that discussion of freenode policies is no more on-topic here than politics.
<\sh> afflux, damn..I'm antisocial ;) that's why I'm working on free software...
<afflux> \sh: :D
<DktrKranz> :D
<Kmos> \sh: hehe
<afflux> yes, persia, thats why I say i missunderstood it ;)
<afflux> ah, found something else: http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml (search for "Avoid advocacy debates.")
<afflux> anyway.. it's time for lunch
<DktrKranz> three lines for describing flames ;)
<\sh> let's end with this discussion and do some important work...merges#
<persia> \sh: Would your interest in merges extend to sponsoring?
<\sh> persia, sure..please send me your debdiffs to sh@sourcecode.de
<\sh> hmmm I need more beer...need to go to the supermarket
<\sh> Adri2000, please fix the \ problem ( \ becomes \\ etc.)
<\sh> Adri2000, (web app)
<\sh> persia, is it against latest debian or from ubuntu gutsies repos?
<persia> \sh: Latest Debian
<\sh> persia, uploaded
<persia> \sh: Thank you.
<Adri2000> \sh: done
<afflux> \sh: bug 112547
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112547 in reportbug "merge reportbug 3.37 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112547
<afflux> \sh: against latest debian too
<Kmos> kmos@bash:~/packages/gnu-smalltalk/smalltalk-2.3.3/debian$ dch -v 2.3.3-0ubuntu1
<Kmos> dch: fatal error at line 470:
<Kmos> what's the problem with this?
<Kmos> Found debian/changelog for package gnu-smalltalk in the directory /home/kmos/packages/gnu-smalltalk/smalltalk-2.3.3
<Kmos> but this directory name does not match the package name according to the
<Kmos> regex  PACKAGE(-.*)?.
<man-di> Kmos: gnu-smalltalk != smalltalk
<man-di> the dir need to be named gnu-smalltalk-2.3.3
<Kmos> right
<Kmos> :)
<Kmos> i really don't see it
<Kmos> lol
<_filippo_> Lamego: thanks!! i'm downloading it right now! could i host a copy on project page? also thanks for pidgin i'm already using you package ;)
<Lamego> _filippo_, sure :)
<_filippo_> Lamego: thanks! you're great!
<Lamego> i am rebuilding pidgin with libinotify
<Lamego> hum
<_filippo_> Lamego: how does pidgin use libinotify?
<Lamego> forget it, it's a plugin
<Lamego> I had the wrong idea it was builtin
<_filippo_> ah ok
<_filippo_> forgotten :P
<\sh> Kmos, gnu-smalltalk is a sync...I requested already
<\sh> afflux, checking it
<Kmos> \sh: but it need to be packaged manually, right ?
<\sh> Kmos, gnu-smalltalk?
<Kmos> yes
<Kmos> i'm newbie in packagement :P
<\sh> Kmos, no..it's in debian, and the fixes in ubuntu packages are just rebuilds when I read the changelog correctly
<\sh> Kmos, so it's just a sync
<\sh> from debian
<\sh> no upload necessary
<Kmos> the ubuntu system will do the sync automatically ?
<\sh> but as man-di said correctly, smalltalk != gnu-smalltalk
<Kmos> yeah
<\sh> Kmos, not when there are ubuntu changes inside, then we need to request them
<\sh> (motus do the request, or approving the syncs)
<Kmos> \sh: u're not a motu ? so you reported the bug
<\sh> Kmos, I'm a motu and core-dev :) so I requested the sync  via bug report 
<\sh> Kmos, it will be synced anytime when the archive maintainers have time
<\sh> Kmos, https://launchpad.net/~shermann
<Kmos> i like to help, but if that will be some type of auto process
<Kmos> you need to change your avatar :)
* Kmos lunch
<\sh> Kmos, you have to check the merges pages and check if it's a merge or if we can sync it from debian directly
<\sh> afflux, uploaded
<afflux> \sh: thanks
<\sh> how do I remove a wrong tag?
<\sh> Kmos, neither gnu-smalltalk nor gps... needs-packaging
<persia> \sh: Edit the description, and remove the tag from the space delimited list.
<\sh> yeah just found it
<persia> Would anyone with an i386 of ppc gutsy environment be willing to test a candidate version of audacity?  I am particularly interested in whether it supports JACK properly.
<DktrKranz> persia, I can try later, if you want
<persia> DktrKranz: That'd be great.  I've put a debdiff against Debian sources at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/112606, but want to make sure my architecture conditional stuff works properly before it is uploaded.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112606 in audacity "Please merge audacity 1.3.2-2 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<DktrKranz> is it a merge?
<DktrKranz> yeah, it is :)
<DktrKranz> persia, I'll pass you pbuilder log, so you can see compilation process
<persia> DktrKranz: I'm really interested in the runtime behaviour.  I have a i386 vmware instance, but I don't have a working jackd there, so I cannot determine if the JACK support is working.
<DktrKranz> I've got a VM, but I think I can manage to get it working
<persia> DktrKranz: Does your VM sound work with JACK?
<DktrKranz> I can try to verify it
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<DktrKranz> actually I shut down sound
<DktrKranz> but it's not a matter enable them
<DktrKranz> I'll be back in a couple of hours
<DktrKranz> see you :)
<ScottK> Good morning everyone.
<ScottK> eolo999: Are you there?
<persia> ScottK: good morning.
<ScottK> Hello persia
<eolo999> ScottK, I'm there in 5 minuts
<ScottK> OK
<eolo999> Here a I am
<eolo999> Have you tested pythoncad?
<persia> eolo999: Do you have a fix already?  Please put your patch in a comment to the bug: I (the submitter) would also like to test.
<Kmos> eolo999: it's working very well
<eolo999> do you mean the diff file I sent ypu ScottK ?
<ScottK> eolo999: I think that's the one persia wants.
<ScottK> Kmos: persia is fixing another pythoncad bug than the one you tested.
<Kmos> hmm.. nice
<persia> ScottK: Ummm..  eolo999 is fixing a different pythoncad bug (that I submitted).
<ScottK> Just a sec.  Let me do this with bug numbers...
* persia doesn't fix python (usually)
<Kmos> there isn't a better software opensource for CAD ? pythoncad is too limited..
<persia> Kmos: blender?
<Kmos> persia: it does cad ? like autocad
<Kmos> ?
<ScottK> Bug #108612 is fixed and there is an SRU pending that I've asked people to test.  persia tested it and, in the process found Bug #112140.  That is what eolo999 has a fix for.
<eolo999> i put the diff in LaunchPad Bug #112140
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108612 in pythoncad "[apport]  pythoncad crashed with ExpatError in parse()" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108612
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112140 in pythoncad "pythoncad fails to exit when all windows are closed" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112140
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112140 in pythoncad "pythoncad fails to exit when all windows are closed" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112140
<persia> eolo999: Thanks.
<ScottK> Kmos: I'm a Python guy trying to help out and get Python bugs fixed.  I've got no opinion on the utility of the package.
<Kmos> :)
<persia> Kmos: I haven't used blender much, and not AutoCAD in years.  At least blender can define shapes, and render them.
<eolo999> so we have two patches to join in the new ubuntu package?
<ScottK> eolo999: Have you used pbuilder before?
<eolo999> no... except some MOTU readings I never used pbuilder.
<Amaranth> whee
<Amaranth> finally got wifi in my room
<LaserJock> Amaranth: are you in Seville?
<ScottK> eolo999: We are going to first fix 112140 in Gutsy.  The other bug doesn't apply to that.
<eolo999> i'm opening 'Ubuntu packaging Guide'...
<Amaranth> LaserJock: yep
<Amaranth> just got done eating and got the username/password to the wifi
<Amaranth> you can smoke _everywhere_ here :)
<ScottK> eolo999: Go to http://revu.tauware.de/~laserjock/ and download the script called pbuilder-feisty.
<ScottK> That'll simplify a lot of stuff with getting pbuilder running.
<eolo999> i have the script
<ScottK> eolo999: I'm having you do this step first becuase it takes a while to create the pbuilder.  You might as well get it started.
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> sh pbuilder-feisty create
<persia> eolo999: That works great for me.  Thanks.
<ScottK> It'll ask you for your password
<eolo999> great persia 
<LaserJock> Amaranth: lol, I know. it's not great for me. I have somewhat of an intolerance for smoke
<Amaranth> LaserJock: Are you here?
<eolo999> in package folder ScottK?
<LaserJock> Amaranth: yep, room 3172 I think
<Amaranth> dude
<Amaranth> that's right next door
<ScottK> eolo999: In the folder you downloaded the script to.  This has nothing to do with a specific package yet.
<Amaranth> 3173
<ScottK> LaserJock: Got a minute for an opinion on an SRU?
* ScottK guesses not.
<eolo999> I'm running the script, but I already set up pbuilder for feisty..
<LaserJock> ScottK: not exactly. I actually need to run down and try to grab some food
<ScottK> NP
<ScottK> If any MOTUs (particularly one from motu-sru) is watching, I'd like an opionion on a pending SRU...  There is a pythoncad update in feisty proposed that fixes Bug #108612.  We now have a fix for Bug #112140.  By itself, it wouldn't be SRU worthy, but does it make sense to add it to the existing feisty-proposed package (it's a one liner) or just let it go?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108612 in pythoncad "[apport]  pythoncad crashed with ExpatError in parse()" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108612
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112140 in pythoncad "pythoncad fails to exit when all windows are closed" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112140
<ScottK> eolo999: Is it running?
<eolo999> ScottK, Yes it is running but I already set up pbuilder for feisty following ubu packaging guide
<ScottK> Oh
* ScottK didn't realize you already had one.
<eolo999> now i don't know... i have double.
<ScottK> Where is the one you made from the packaging guide?
<eolo999> don't remember :S
<persia> Does anyone know how to submit a bug for a package that has never compiled in any Ubuntu release (recently attempted sync from Debian)?
<pochu> slomo: can you review 112384?
<ScottK> persia: Is it in the Ubuntu repositories?
<eolo999> /var/cache/pbuilder/
<ScottK> OK.  Good.
<persia> ScottK: The source is in gutsy, but there aren't any binaries (it FTBFS)
<ScottK> Laserjock's script puts it in ~/pbuilder
<illovae> howdy'all
<ScottK> persia: Then shouldn't you just file the bug against packagename as normal?
<persia> ScottK: LP doesn't have a +source/ page for it yet :)
<ScottK> Hmmmm
<ScottK> Dunno then.
<eolo999> can I cancel the creation of the new pbuilder env?
<ScottK> eolo999: We are going to upgrade this one to gutsy, so just let it run.
<eolo999> i downloaded pbuilder-FEISTY
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Last I checked, you can't make a Gutsy pbuilder directly.
<ScottK> You make a Feisty pbuilder and then upgrade it to Gutsy.
<eolo999> ok, perfect
<eolo999> so i'll have pbuilder envs for both...
<Kmos> ScottK: just need to edit one file
<Kmos> kmos@bash:~$ cat ~/.pbuilderrc 
<Kmos> ## Overrides /etc/pbuilderrc
<Kmos> # Default distribution
<Kmos> DISTRIBUTION=gutsy
<Kmos> and it will build for gutsy
<Kmos> sudo pbuilder build *.dsc
<Kmos> :)
* \sh stops working now...just wait for the upload of "grass" and then going out with GF
<ScottK> eolo999: I'm getting the gutsy source now.
<ScottK> eolo999: Open debian/rules in your favorite text editor
<eolo999> ScottK, ok (vim)
* ScottK too
<ScottK> You can see in line 8 that this package is set up to use dpatch.
<eolo999> yes
<ScottK> That tells us how we are going to package the fix.
<eolo999> ok
<ScottK> eolo999: Have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
<eolo999> yes but now i have to follow it step by step.
<ScottK> It's really very easy.
<ScottK> First, is your Gutsy source pristine or have you modified it for the fix already?
<eolo999> dpatch-edit-patch 
<ScottK> Did you do that already or is that what you are proposing?
<ScottK> That is how we'll make the patch if you haven't.
<eolo999> proposing
<ScottK> OK. 
<ScottK> That's the correct (easiest/less likely to make a mistake) answer
<eolo999> tell me ill follow you...
<eolo999> *i'll
<ScottK> You haven't answered my question though...  Is your current Gutsy source modified already or not?
<ScottK> OK I will
<eolo999> the script is still running
<eolo999> so i have not modified yet
<ScottK> ok.  We can do this while the pbuilder is still making
<eolo999> ready
<ScottK> The pbuilder is for building a binary.  We need to get a good source package first.
<ScottK> First, just have a quick look at man dpatch-edit-patch so you know where the documentation is.  It looks harder than it is, but I want you to at least look at it.
<eolo999> i have to source packages, the one i modified and one i didn't touched
<eolo999> two
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> We will be working in the one you haven't touched.
<ScottK> That BTW, is a good practice.
<\sh> bbl
<ScottK> eolo999: Look in debian/patches and you'll see that there's already a patch there.
<eolo999> ok
<ScottK> We want to apply your patch AFTER that patch, so we invoke dpatch-edit-patch like this (gimme a sec to try it first and make sure):
<ScottK> eolo999: From within the source tree..  dpatch-edit-patch 05_clean_exit 02_remove_unused_bindump
<eolo999> did it
<ScottK> OK.  Now you are in an environment where you can make your change.
<ScottK> use vim to open the correct file, edit it as necessary, and save your changes.
<ScottK> Note you don't actually need to comment in the source about the bug number.  We'll do that in the changelog
<ScottK> eolo999: ^^
<eolo999> i'm working...
<eolo999> ok, i'll not write that comment line
<nixternal> good mornin'
<ScottK> Good morning nixternal
<eolo999> edited source file...
<ScottK> Saved it?
<ScottK> exited vim?
<eolo999> now i suppose we have to go on with debian/*
<eolo999> yes
<ScottK> no
<ScottK> Not yet
<ScottK> we are still in dpatch-edit-patch
<eolo999> yes
<ScottK> Now that all of the upstream source changes are made, we exit dpatch-edit-patch
<ScottK> just type "exit"
<eolo999> exit 230?
<ScottK> No
<eolo999> no no no: only 'exit'
<ScottK> exit 230 is an error.  That gets you out without making the patch
<ScottK> exit only is a clean exit and it knows to make the patch.
<eolo999>  Warning: debian/patches/00template not exist, using hardcoded default.
<ScottK> No problem
<eolo999> ready.
<ScottK> now look in debian/patches and your patch should be there
<eolo999> yes
<eolo999> ScottK, should we open a pvt not to bore other guys?
<ScottK> open the patch in vim and have a look
<ScottK> eolo999: I'd say not.  Others may be watching and learning and the channel is quiet today.
<eolo999> ok the patch is nice
<ScottK> Look at the e-mail address in line 2.  If it's not correct, fix it.
<eolo999> done
<ScottK> OK.  Now open 00list
<ScottK> Add your patch to it after the 02 patch
<eolo999> done
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Now we do the changelog
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<eolo999> ok
<ScottK> Type dch -i
<ScottK> That'll bring you up in your editor with a new changelog entry.
<eolo999> in debian folder
<ScottK> anywhere within the source tree.
<ScottK> or in debian
<eolo999> ok
<ScottK> doesn't matter
<eolo999> ready
<ScottK> First line where it says feisty, change it to gutsy
<ScottK> Then edit line 5 to have your correct name and e-mail address if it doesn't
<eolo999> ok
<eolo999> Clean exit (Closes: LP Bug#112140)
<eolo999> it's ok?
<ScottK> Then In the line that starts with * you describe your change.  Something like Add 05_clean_exit patch (LP: #112140)
<ScottK> (Closes: #somebug) is Debian.  We do it a little different.
<eolo999> did as you wrote
<eolo999> * Add 05_clean_exit patch (LP: #112140)
<ScottK> pastebin me your changelog entry and at least one line of the old entry so I can see.
<ScottK> Changelogs get automatically parsed, so they are picky about formatting.
<eolo999> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19285/
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> Format is good, but we have a little problem here...  pythoncad (0.1.33-2) is the Feisty version, not the Gutsy version.
<eolo999> gutsy version is 1.35 or similar
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> So you were making your changes to Feisty source, not Gutsy source
<eolo999> oh oh
<ScottK> So.  Not a big deal.
<ScottK> Just do the same again for the correct package.
<ScottK> It's good practice anyway.
<eolo999> I can do everything in a while, sorry, i didn't understood...
<ScottK> It's hard to communicate everything clearly over IRC.  I probably wasn't clear.
<ScottK> eolo999: I'll be here another 4-5 hours today.  Let me know when you have it done up to here and will pick up.
<eolo999> ok 5 minutes...
<ScottK> eolo999: But we can go ahead and upgrade your new pbuilder to Gutsy.
<ScottK> OK
* ScottK goes for another cup of coffee.
<eolo999> ScottK, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19289/
* ScottK lloks
<ScottK> err looks
<ScottK> Looks good.
<ScottK> Let's upgrade your pbuilder now.  It'll take a bit and it can run while we make the source package
<eolo999> ready
<eolo999> a question ScottK 
<ScottK> Shoot
<eolo999> What if we had more changes to apply to the source code?
<eolo999> now it was easy, just one file, one word
<ScottK> Either make a bigger patch or if it's different problems, make multiple patches.
<ScottK> The packaging process is the same.
<eolo999> i mean when i edited the file from within dpatch
<ScottK> Right, but dpatch-edit-patch will keep track of all the changes and will make a multiple file patch if needed.
<eolo999> ok
<ScottK> dpatch-edit-patch is a lifesaver.
<eolo999> ok
<eolo999> ahead..
<ScottK> Right
<ScottK> From the dir where you downloaded the pbuilder script...
<ScottK> sh pbuilder-feisty login --save-after-login
<eolo999> W: /home/eolo/.pbuilderrc does not exist
<ScottK> Is OK
<eolo999> File extracted to: /var/cache/pbuilder/build//24144
<eolo999> why double slash
<ScottK> This puts you inside another virtual environment
<ScottK> Dunno.  
<ScottK> Don't think it's a problem
<ScottK> There are simpler ways to do this, but I am telling you what worked for me
<eolo999> ok
<ScottK> Use vim to edit /etc/apt/sources.list and change all occurrences of feisty to gutsy
<eolo999> did
<eolo999> one line is commented out...
<eolo999> #deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu gutsy main
<ScottK> We are only working on universe packages here, so that's fine
<eolo999> ok
<ScottK> Once you have that done, exit vim, sudo apt-get update
<ScottK> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<eolo999> why sudo?
<eolo999> it seems that i'm root of this particular env
<ScottK> Are you root?
<ScottK> Ah
<ScottK> Then skip the sudo
<ScottK> It was a while ago I did this....
<eolo999> it's quite slow.
<eolo999> in downloadingf
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> Let's leave that and go back to your package.
<ScottK> The next step is to build your source package.
<eolo999> i'm there
<ScottK> Have you installed build-essential and fakeroot already?
<eolo999> yes
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> then: debuild -S -us should build an unsigned source package.
<ScottK> oo
<ScottK> OOP
<ScottK> Argh
<ScottK> debuild -S -uc
<ScottK> eolo999: ^^
<eolo999> tell me
<ScottK> debuild -S -uc
* ScottK drinks more coffee
<ScottK> Since all we will upload is a debdiff, there is no need to sign the source package.
<ScottK> If you were uploading a new package to REVU, you would do it debuild -S -sa to get signed source.
<eolo999> got a lintian error
<eolo999> E: pythoncad_0.1.35-1ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy
<eolo999> and two warnings
<ScottK> About NMU, right?
<ScottK> These are normal.
<eolo999> yes
<eolo999> E: pythoncad_0.1.35-1ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy
<ScottK> Sorry.  I just remembered one other thing we have to do...
<ScottK> Not a problem.
<eolo999> what
<ScottK> Since this is now an Ubuntu unique package we need to change the maintainer.
<ScottK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField explains.  This also needs to be noted in the changelog.
<eolo999> so what?
<ScottK> eolo999: Bottom line is in debian/control, maintainer needs to be set to Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> and the current maintainer needs to be in XSBC-Original-Maintainer
<ScottK> eolo999: Make those changes and then pastebin the control file.
<ScottK> Sorry about having to go back on this...
<ScottK> eolo999: All this gets easy once you've done a few.
<eolo999> i'm pasting it...
<soulrider> hello
<ScottK> Hello
<soulrider> im here ebcause i wanna know if there are any projects based on KDe similar to AptOnCD
<soulrider> if not i was hoping to get some people and start one
<soulrider> its something that is much needed in some countried
<soulrider> countries*
<eolo999> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19293/
<ScottK> soulrider: You might have better luck in #kubuntu-devel, but not right now as most devs are en route to the developer sprint.
* ScottK looks
<soulrider> oh
<ScottK> eolo999: Looks good.  Now make your source package again.
<eolo999> W: pythoncad source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<eolo999> W: pythoncad source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 0.1.35-1ubuntu1
<eolo999> E: pythoncad_0.1.35-1ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy
<eolo999> ok
<ScottK> eolo999: These are to be expected.
<eolo999> ok
<ScottK> Is your pbuilder done upgrading yet?
<eolo999> strange 0 upgraded
<eolo999> apt-get dist-upgrade
<ScottK> You did do an update before you upgraded, right?
<eolo999> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<eolo999> right
<eolo999> this was while updating: E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
<eolo999> Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2  MD5Sum mismatch
<ScottK> Hmmm
<ScottK> That would explain it I think.
<eolo999> try again to update
<eolo999> ing
<ScottK> OK.
<afflux> fast-user-switch-applet can be synced (bug #112636)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112636 in fast-user-switch-applet "sync fast-user-switch-applet 2.18.0-1 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112636
<eolo999> I smoke a cigarette in the meanwhile...
<ScottK> OK.  Ping me when you get back.
<eolo999> ScottK, dist-upgrading
<ScottK> OK.
<eolo999> 19 minutes!!
<ScottK> Sounds like it worked this time.
<eolo999> 34 K
<ScottK> Back to your source package.
<eolo999> ok
<ScottK> if you look in the dir above the source, you should see .dsc files for both the old and new versions of the gutsy pythoncad.
<ScottK> Got that?
<eolo999> ok two dsc files
<ScottK> Next we make the debiff.  
<eolo999> ready
<ScottK> debdiff packagename-{old version}.dsc packagename-{new version}.dsc > descriptive-filename.debdiff
<eolo999> descriptive-filename = clean_exit ?
<eolo999> .debdiff
<ScottK> I'd do pythoncad-clean-exit.debdiff
<eolo999> ok
<eolo999> did it
<ScottK> Once that's done, pastebin the debdiff (it should be short enough) - If it's big, then we did something wrong
<ScottK> How's it look?
<eolo999> short
<ScottK> Good
<ScottK> Let me have a look
<eolo999> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19297/
<soulrider_> ScottK: is there any way i can flag a package out of date? its even outdated int he debian repos i think
<ScottK> soulrider_: Just a minute
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> eolo999: Looks good to me.
<ScottK> eolo999: Let me know when your pbuilder is done upgrading.
<ScottK> soulrider_: What package?
<eolo999> 7 minutes
<ScottK> OK
<soulrider_> ScottK: filelight
<ScottK> What's the current upstream release?
<ScottK> soulrider_: ?  What's upstream release?
<soulrider_> uhm
<soulrider_> not sure
<soulrider_> im not on kubuntu right now, hold on a sec
<ScottK> soulrider_: We have the same version as Debian.
<soulrider_> yeah, but its old
<soulrider_> its like 0.9 or something like that ?
<soulrider_> as far as i can remember, it crashes every time you exit the program
<soulrider_> version 1.0 is bug free
<ScottK> You have two options:
<ScottK> 1.  File a bug against the Debian package asking for an update.  If the Debian maintainer updates it, then we get it automatically.
<ScottK> 2.  File an Ubuntu bug in LP or package it yourself for Ubuntu.
<eolo999> 1'39''
<soulrider_> ScottK: if i package it myself, how do i submit it ?
<ScottK> soulrider_: It has been years since the Debian maintainer touched the package, so the most likely path to success is package it.
<ScottK> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ScottK> soulrider_: ^^
<nixternal> what I did (with krename) per StevenK is I contacted the current maintainer who hasn't touched the package in about a year and a half about taking over maintainer rights, or at least helping him maintain it
<soulrider_> im gonna chack it out
<eolo999> 10 secs
<soulrider_> im gonna have to go a a PC with kubuntu though to do it right? or is there any other way to create a deb package ?
<ScottK> nixternal: I think that works for someone who knows what they are doing.
<eolo999> upgraded!
<nixternal> ScottK: I don't know what I am doing :)
<nixternal> I just play a "MOTU wannabe" :p
<ScottK> For someone with now packaging experience, I think it's better to learn here and then go to the Debian guy with a good package.
<ScottK> nixternal: You and me both.
<nixternal> hehe
<ScottK> eolo999: Great
<ScottK> eolo999: Now you should be able to just exit the pbuilder and it'll save the new config.
<soulrider_> ScottK: i really cant compile anything by myself :P besides, im not running ubuntu at th emoment
<alterlaszlo> ScottK, it's me (lost connection and got second name)
<alterlaszlo> ScottK, exited pbuilder and saved
<ScottK> soulrider_: Do you plan to run Ubuntu?
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Excellent.
<alterlaszlo> ok
<soulrider_> ScottK: uhm not anytime soon
<alterlaszlo> and now
<dothebart> hy... im looking for some feedback on my citadel.org debs...
<soulrider_> installation is fast and everything but i just dont ahve the time to do it, and im hapyp with how my pc is now
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Now copy the pbuilder script.  cp pbuilder-feisty pbuilder-gutsy
<dothebart> they're available at ubuntu.citadel.org/ubuntu/
<ScottK> soulrider_: I'm a little confused why you were asking for Ubuntu to get a new version then?
<soulrider_> ScottK: i used ubuntu for a long time and my friends use it
<alterlaszlo> then?
<ScottK> dothebart: Are you trying to get your packages into Ubuntu?
<soulrider_> and its a great distro with great community, im allways int he kubuntu channel helping people
<dothebart> if somebody is willing to do that with me, yes.
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Then sh pbuilder-gutsy build {full path to file}/{pacakgename-and-version}.dsc
<ScottK> dothebart: That's what we do here.
<ScottK> soulrider_: OK.  What do you run?
<dothebart> :] 
<soulrider_> ScottK: Archlinux
<ScottK> soulrider_: Is that an Ubuntu derivative?  Where does it derive from?
<dothebart> ScottK: what would be the next steps to take?
<soulrider_> ScottK: Crux i believe
<ScottK> dothebart: You want to put your packages up on REVU.
<ScottK> !revu | dothebart
<ubotu> dothebart: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<alterlaszlo> E: File /home/eolo/pbuilder/gutsy-base.tgz does not exist ScottK !!!
<dothebart> *reads*
<ScottK> soulrider_: Then maybe one of your friends would be interested in packaging it for Ubuntu
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Sorry.  Forgot a step.
<alterlaszlo> ok
<soulrider_> ScottK: my dads pc has kubuntu so its not really a problem
<ScottK> Rename /home/eolo/pbuilder/feisty-base.tgz to /home/eolo/pbuilder/gutsy-base.tgz
<ScottK> Then do it again.
<ScottK> soulrider_: Great.  
<soulrider_> ScottK: if i go there, could you help me package it ?
<alterlaszlo> now seem better
<ScottK> I can help some.  I've about expended my time for today.
<ScottK> soulrider_: There are lots of people here (although the next week or so will be rough because of the developer sprint) who will help you. 
<ScottK> soulrider_: Very open to new people here.
<soulrider_> ok, in about 10 minutes im gonna go downstairs and try to package it
<alterlaszlo> done!
<ScottK> soulrider_: Most of the information you need is in the Ubuntu packaging guide and on wiki.ubuntu.com
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Now look in ~/pbuilder and you should see the .debs
<soulrider_> ScottK: i ahve done some packages before
<soulrider_> actually
<soulrider_> now that i think of it, i packaged filelight
<ScottK> Great.  All the better
<soulrider_> and its in my sent items in gmail
<soulrider_> hold on a sec :P
<alterlaszlo> i don't find it , perhaps confusion of tho envs
<ScottK> What did the pbuilder say at the end?  Did it give you an error?
* ScottK tries to build it.
<alterlaszlo> no errors
<ScottK> ... building...
<soulrider_> ScottK: can i send you the filelight package i build for you to check out please ?
<alterlaszlo> found
<alterlaszlo> , sorry
<ScottK> No problem
<alterlaszlo> i have deb
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Now sudo dpkg -i filename.deb to test it (Gutsy and Feisty are close enough at this point this is a good test).
<alterlaszlo> it works!
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> Now attach the debdiff to the bug and subscribe (do not assign) the bug to ubuntu-universe-sponsors.  Mark it confirmed and unassign yourself.
<alterlaszlo> subscribe??
<alterlaszlo> ScottK, what is not assign but subscribe
<ScottK> On the left colum there is an option to "subscribe someone else"
<alterlaszlo> ScottK, understood
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: You should also probably mention in a comment on the bug that you've built binary packages in a Gutsy pbuilder and test installed them to verify the fix.
<alterlaszlo> ok 
<alterlaszlo> nothing more?
<jdong> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ktorrent/2.1.4-0ubuntu1~feisty1
<jdong> ^^ why has this been queued 3 days...
<jdong> on all arches
<jdong> while dapper and edgy all went through in a heartbeat
<ScottK> The next thing (for Gutsy) would be to ask here for someone from UUS to upload the fix.
<ScottK> i.e.
<ph1zzle> hey guys
<ScottK> If anyone from UUS is available, alterlaszlo has a fix for Bug #112140 that is ready for UUS review and upload.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112140 in pythoncad "pythoncad fails to exit when all windows are closed" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112140
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Next step is to tell Debian about the problem.
<alterlaszlo> ...
<jdong> ok, all the buildd's are idle....
* jdong grumbles :D
<alterlaszlo> listening
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Go to http://www.debian.org/Bugs/ and follow the directions for reporting a bug via email.  It's somewhat complex, but the needed information is there.  Attach your patch (not the debdiff).
<alterlaszlo> OK
* alterlaszlo tries
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: If you want to write up the e-mail and send it to me to check, that's fine.
<alterlaszlo> perfect, thanks ScottK 
<alterlaszlo> is there a 'template'?
<ScottK> Not really.  Just read the text and put the stuff in they ask for
* ScottK can forward one I've sent.  Gimme a sec to find it
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Sent
<alterlaszlo> thx
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: How's it going?
<alterlaszlo> i was eating something
<alterlaszlo> no tried yet
<alterlaszlo> ScottK, Have you seen the comment added by hemmet to the bug?
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> Yes.  That's good.
<alterlaszlo> It says we should mention the change of maintainer in changelog
<ScottK> Oh.
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> That
<ScottK> That's right.
<ScottK> We should.
<ScottK> Add * Changed maintainer to MOTU to the changelog just below the line about the patch.
<ScottK> Redo the source packate (debuild -S -uc)
<ScottK> Redo the debdiff
<ScottK> Attached the new debdiff to the bug and delete the old one.
<ScottK> Sorry about that.
<ScottK> BTW, Emmett is persia here.  So you know...
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Does that make sense?
<alterlaszlo> doing it
<alterlaszlo> almost finished
<ScottK> Great.
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> How about the bug report to Debian?
<alterlaszlo> do I have to check the box that says 'this attachment is a patch' when posting a debdiff in LP?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> It doesn't make a huge difference, but it's better to.
<ScottK> It affects how it gets served back.  If you check the box it gets served back as a text file.
<alterlaszlo> ok done posting new debdiff
<alterlaszlo> now... i have to pause to make my son eat...
<alterlaszlo> i'll work on debian email as soon as I can.
<ScottK> Sure.
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: You are going to have to fix it again.
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: You lost a blank line in changelog that's needed.
<alterlaszlo> sorry
<ScottK> No problem.
<ScottK> Just add a blank line between your entry and the line with your name/address on it.
<ScottK> This is all good for learning.
<alterlaszlo> i really have to go now, i'll be back later..
<alterlaszlo> thx folks
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: See you later.  Three isn't so bad.  My first one was 5.
<\sh> re
<zul> is there a uds channel yet?
<\sh> tomorrow it starts right?
<zul> yep
<\sh> hmm..there's too much \sh again on this merge page...gnarf
<_filippo_> Lamego: i think there's a character encoding problem with trademark symbol of gnome mastermind
<Lamego> _filippo_, yes, it was my typing of the "tm"
<_filippo_> Lamego: maybe you could use &trade;
<_filippo_> Lamego: it works fine on the home page
<Lamego> _filippo_, done :)
<_filippo_> Lamego: thanks now it looks fine ;)
<_MMA_> zul: The channel is: #uds-sevilla.
<zul> _MMA_: thanks
<alterlaszlo> Scottk, can I attach the dpatch file to the debian mail or paste it?
<ScottK> Attach it.
<alterlaszlo> the dpatch is ok?
<ScottK> Yes.  It's got nothing Ubuntu unique in it.
<alterlaszlo> ScottK, sent you e-mail
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Looks good.  What will you put as the subject in the one you send to Debian (title of the bug)?
<alterlaszlo> suggestion?
<ScottK> pythoncad fails to exit when all windows are closed
<\sh> destroy event not correctly catched and called?
<ScottK> That would work too.
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: You're reporting the but, up to you.
<\sh> just a quick guess, no clue if it's correct
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: It's probably better to just file the bug than spend a long time thinking about it.
<alterlaszlo> sorry, i was skyping with some friends in London
<ScottK> No problem.
<Q-FUN1> has there been any talk about releasing Pidgin as an update for dapper/edgy/feisty?
<ScottK> jdong was talking about it.
<\sh> backport?
<ScottK> Yes, as a backport
<\sh> so nothing critical ;)
<alterlaszlo> ScottK, what about 'pythoncad fails to exit'
<ScottK> Fine with me.
<alterlaszlo> so i'm sending it
<\sh> just one package left for today
<Q-FUN1> backport? why not an actual update?
<\sh> to risky I think for dapper
<alterlaszlo> it has been a long day...
<ScottK> Q-FUN1: Why an actual update?
<\sh> actually I think there is nothing wrong with gaim in dapper...
<Q-FUNK> because pre-release versions have various pointless bugs
<ScottK> Q-FUNK: We don't have any actual officialt pigdin packages in those repos do we?
<Q-FUNK> we have old gaim 2.0preX
<ScottK> Q-FUNK: As a rule, they don't do new packages as updates.  Just relevant bugs that qualify for SRU. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<ScottK> I know gaim is main, but same general policy
<\sh> Q-FUNK, 1. you have to change the name from gaim to pigdin and that means 2. all reverse deps to gaim needs to be changed...useless risk
<\sh> use backports if you want to be hip ;)
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=422422
<ubotu> Debian bug 422422 in pythoncad "pythoncad fails to exit" [Unknown,Open]  
<Q-FUNK> nothing to do with being hip.  I'm just getting tired of the various annoyances in preX versions
<ScottK> Q-FUNK: Then find patches that fix SRU worthy bugs and propose that.
<alterlaszlo> Nice. Should I submit the patch for version 0.1.35 too?
<\sh> alterlaszlo, please do :)
<ScottK> Yes
<alterlaszlo> it's enough to change version number, isn't it?
<ScottK> Are the line numbers for the patch the same?
<\sh> depends..new upstream version or new release of the package?
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: The patch you submitted was the one for 1.35
<alterlaszlo> oops.
<ScottK> I'd just submit a comment on the but that says that the issue is present in 1.35 also and that the patch is for 1.35.
<ScottK> Don't worry about the 1.33 patch.
<Q-FUNK> hm.  no pidgin package for fesity+1 ?
<alterlaszlo> 4th error ;)
<ScottK> Q-FUNK: Not in Debian yet.
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Not a big deal.
<Q-FUNK> since when is feisty a debian release?!
<ScottK> Q-FUNK: Where do we get the package from?
<Q-FUNK> not always from debian
<ScottK> Sure.  If someone packages it first.
<Q-FUNK> precisely and ubuntu tends to get around these first
<ScottK> jdong was working with the draft Debian package from their SVN yesterday or earlier today.
<Q-FUNK> ah
<ScottK> You might ask jdong what his intent is next time he's here.
<Q-FUNK> yup
<Q-FUNK> good point
* \sh stops now with the uploading....cu tomorrow or monday...depends what my GF wants to do with me ;)
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Next step is to link the debian bug to the Ubuntu bug in LP.
<alterlaszlo> ok
<alterlaszlo> how?
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: See where it says ,"Also affects another distribution"?
<alterlaszlo> 'also affects upstream' section and add debian bug #
<ScottK> No, another distribution.
<ScottK> Select Debian and then feed it the URL for the bug.
<alterlaszlo> done
<alterlaszlo> and commented patch in deb bugs
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Looks perfect.
<alterlaszlo> ok
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Now, since you already checked and the problem is still present upstream, it'd be polite to report it to them too.
<alterlaszlo> i'm still asking myself how they didn't see the problem.
<alterlaszlo> I think that thy're yousing Mac and Cocoa interface section to develop
<ScottK> That may be.  All the more reason to tell them.
<alterlaszlo> ok
<alterlaszlo> lot of things to do...
<alterlaszlo> solving the problem took 1/100 time !?!
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: Since this is your first one all the way through, we are being VERY thorough.
<ScottK> alterlaszlo: This way your work benifits a lot more people.
<ScottK> Adri2000 or Lutin are you around for a DaD bug report?
<ScottK> Look at DaD's proposed merged changelog for clamav.  The entries are not in the correct order....
<ScottK> 0.90.2-1ubuntu1, 0.90.2-1, 0.90.1-2, and then 0.90.2-0ubuntu1
* ScottK hopes they read the scrollback...
<alterlaszlo> ScottK, notified to Art Haas pythoncad developer.
<ScottK> Great.
<alterlaszlo> what happens to the patch now?
<ScottK> Now to do more on that, we need to get crimsun or someone like that on the MOTU SRU team to decide if we should add it to the pending update for Feisty.
<ScottK> For the Gutsy patch we wait for someone in Ubuntu Universe Sponsors to review and upload.
<ScottK> Not so many people around today.
<ScottK> So, for now I think you've done it.
<ScottK> Congratulations and thank you for your contribution.
<alterlaszlo> great, i'm tired...
<ScottK> Pat yourself on the back and take a rest then.
<ScottK> Now you know how the process works!
<alterlaszlo> not exactly... but I have some notions now, thanks to You ScottK 
<ScottK> Welcome to the club, now go fix some more bugs after you get a rest.
<dothebart> ScottK: i've joined that team...
<ScottK> dothebart: Excellent.
<dothebart> and i've created a citadel project
<dothebart> now i need to wait for approval?
<ScottK> I don't know about what's invovled in making projects on LP.  I've never done it.
* ScottK waits for the new clamav to build...
<xtknight> clamav eh?
<xtknight> they finally patch that up good?  i remember it had a ton of bugs :)
<ScottK> It's always worked well for me.
<ScottK> The bigger problems IME are in the GUIs for it.
<ScottK> Different packages...
<xtknight> well i think the original problem is it wouldn't update via the facilities provided in the GUI..it would segfault if you tried to update klamav or clamav
<xtknight> ive actually not used it much myself
<xtknight> but i remember there were a barrage of bugs and i attempted to investigate..didnt get too far as i dont know how to debug Qt apps well enough....strace revealed greek
<ScottK> That works with klamav in Feisty as long as you have the build-depends installed.
<xtknight> i need to get back into fixing bugs though..i love you guys ;)
<Adri2000> ScottK: re clamav on DaD - isn't it the expected behavior in this case? the current ubuntu version is 0.90.2-0ubuntu1 and is based on 0.90.1-1. even if 0.90.1-2 < 0.90.2-0ubuntu1, it is applied after 0.90.2-0ubuntu1 because no one merged before
<ScottK> hmmmm
<Adri2000> I mean, it's in the order the changes have been/are applied in ubuntu
<Adri2000> currently we have 0.90.2-0ubuntu1, and now we are adding the changes of 0.90.1-2 and 0.90.2-1. since we add it after 0.90.2-0ubuntu1, we put the changelog entries at the top.
<ScottK> Adri2000: When I look at the proposed patch on DaD, it looks in a different order than I remember it being after I grab-merged it locall.
<ScottK> locally..
<ScottK> The sequence here: http://adrishost.homeip.net/DaD/merges/clamav/clamav_0.90.2-1ubuntu1.patch looks sane to me.
<ScottK> I'm in the midst of test pbuilding binaries and about to have to leave, so I'll go back and look at it again and let know you if I still think something is amiss.
<Adri2000> clamav_0.90.2-1ubuntu1.patch is a debdiff 0.90.2-1 0.90.2-1ubuntu1. grab-merge downloads the 0.90.2-1ubuntu1 package, so it should be the same order in the changelog.
<ScottK> Adri2000: They are different.  See http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19343
<ScottK> Gotta run.
<Adri2000> ScottK: looking at you list. if we start at 0.90.1-1, it's exactly in the same order, except that 0.90.1-2 is missing from the first list (patch). it's just because it doesn't appear in the debdiff.
<ScottK> Right
<ScottK> Adri2000: Agreed that's the one difference.  The sequence that is in the grabbed changelog does not make sense to me.  It is in neither date nor version order.
<ScottK> Adri2000: I guess I'm not entirely sure what the rule is for merging the changelog in this case, but it seems to me that date or version order would be the right thing to do.
<ScottK> Adri2000: You can tell from the changelog that 0.90.1-2 was never merged (because there's no -2ubuntu1).
<ScottK> Adri2000: I guess I can see it your way too if I think about it really hard.
<ScottK> Adri2000: OK.  I agree not a bug, just not what I would have expected...
<Daviey> Hi, i want to package a shell script.  Would it be better to compile the shell script or just package the it?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-06
<ScottK> Daviey: In Ubuntu we always start from source.
<Daviey> ScottK, i mean the actual install.  Should it be binary or shell script?
<ScottK> Oh.
* ScottK is not the right person to ask about that....
<Daviey> ok thanks anyway
<superm1> Daviey, what shell script are you speaking of?
<Daviey> superm1, 'unfoo'
<Daviey> superm1, http://obsoleet.org/code/unfoo/
<Daviey> i find it immensely useful 
<superm1> yea i can see that being very useful
<Daviey> :)
<Daviey> (don't steal it :P )
<superm1> alright alright you can have this one :)
<Daviey> seems to work fine compiled
<Daviey> not sure weather to install it compiled or as a script
<superm1> i didnt realize you could even compile shell scripts
<superm1> are they faster when compiled?
<Daviey> it's so small, it should make any difference
<Daviey> just a v. basic wrapper for tar, zip et al
<ScottK> Bug #112710 is ready for UUS review if anyone is available.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112710 in clamav "Merge clamav 0.90.2-1 from Debian Unstable (Main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112710
<jekil> if in ubuntu there is an old version and a bug like this, if i package and upload to revu, my package get in ubuntu?
<Daviey> jekil, what repo is the existing package in?
<jekil> Daviey: universe
<Daviey> can't see why not then
<jekil> Daviey: thanks
<Daviey> jekil, (i'm not a MOTU tho) 
<Xk2c_> question about localisation
<Xk2c_> a .mo and a .po file
<Xk2c_> what are they supposed to do?
<Kmos> it's for translation
<Xk2c_> i have looked at a .po and it contains "replacements" for translation
<Xk2c_> is it used at compile time?
<Xk2c_> or at runtime?
<geser> both
<geser> those files are used by gettext
<Xk2c_> and what is the difference compared to .mo?
<geser> .po contains the "source" translations which can be edited with a simply editor
<crimsun> persia: sure (WRT audacity)
<geser> they get "compiled" into .mo files at build time
<Xk2c_> ic
<geser> and gettext uses the .mo files during runtime to translate text (depending on the locale settings)
<Xk2c_> i guess that makes it faster?
<geser> I'd guess yes, but I haven't looked into the details
<Xk2c_> ok thanks geser 
<jdong> does IRC not have a quit message size limit? :)
* jdong proceeds to exploit
<Xk2c_> i will have to dive a bit deeper into gettext i think
<persia> crimsun: Thanks.  I prepared a debdiff, but I'm really not sure about one of my decisions.  The crash was caused by portaudio19 and JACK on amd64.  Audacity needs to patch portaudio19 for portmixer, so system portaudio19 is a little buggy.  JACK is disabled for !{i386,ppc} in system portaudio.  My solution was to disable JACK for audacity for other architectures, but I wondered if patching portaudio19 might have been better, so 
<crimsun> cut off at "patching portaudio19 might have been better, so"
* persia dislikes fixed buffers
<persia> ... better, so that the architecture-specific debian/rules only needed to be fixed in one place once portaudio had proper memory bounds checking.
<crimsun> ok, so does portaudio19 19+svn20070125-1 from Sid exhibit these problems still?
<persia> crimsun: Not such that it's a bug.  portaudio in SID disables JACK for the architectures where the memory bounds checking causes a crash.
<persia> Rather, audacity portmixer cannot build against Debian portaudio19: upstream hasn't accepted the audacity patches yet (available on portaudio Trac).
<crimsun> hmm.
<crimsun> it looks like the current version synced from Sid doesn't have all the necessary fixes anyhow (reading Debian 406798)
<ubotu> Debian bug 406798 in espeak "espeak: Segmentation fault when sound card in use" [Important,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/406798
<crimsun> it would be best if the available interfaces were consistent across all arches
<crimsun> I suppose in the worst case, if we wanted to maintain the sync from Sid, that we could simply disable j-a-c-k for amd64 in audacity
<persia> crimsun: I think that JACK in portaudio is a good thing, even if it excludes amd64, but I like JACK.
<crimsun> there's nothing stopping us from rolling in the new pa19 snap
<jdong> crimsun: random question... slap me if I'm being ignorant.... but is it just me, or have various "no sound after upgrade" type regressions become more prevalent recently?
<crimsun> jdong: upgrade or _dist_-upgrade from edgy to feisty?
<crimsun> (people abuse "upgrade" frequently)
<jdong> crimsun: just generally in newer Ubuntu releases
<crimsun> jdong: that still doesn't answer the question
<jdong> I have no idea how people do their upgrades... it gives me chills to think about it
<persia> crimsun: If you're considering a new portaudio19, let me know if you want to also include the patch from audacity 1.3.2 (in lib-src/portmixer/portaudio.patch).  If so, I'll respin audacity to build against system portaudio.
<jdong> but I've seen a few cases of various "Intel HDA" users claiming they upgraded properly, but lost sound
<crimsun> jdong: are people meaning dist-upgrade when they mean upgrade?
<crimsun> ...when they say upgrade, rather
<jdong> crimsun: I don't think they are dist upgrading...
<crimsun> I have not seen any issues where a person already running 7.04 final loses sound when they upgrade
<crimsun> persia: I would push for a newer pa19 with the necessary patches applied (and obviously clearly noted in the changelog and README.Debian)
<jdong> crimsun: has the introduction of intel HDA increased the rate of sound errors, or is that a false observation?
<crimsun> jdong: more precisely?
<jdong> i.e. more problems with sound not working, etc after HDA became prevalent, than before.
<crimsun> I don't know if you mean "bug reports" or "hardware errors" by "sound errors"
<jdong> more like bug reports... i.e. sound not working under Linux
<persia> crimsun: patches for JACK, or for portmixer?  If for JACK, such a patch doesn't exist yet (even in portaudio upstream), and portaudio is efficient enough to scare me away from coding one.
<crimsun> jdong: yes, absolutely.  The cause is the spec being too lose WRT pin chaining, so Realtek, Analog Devices, and Sigmatel have gone overboard with extensions, meaning that every new codec revision needs a quirk entry.  It's horrible.
<jdong> crimsun: ah, ok, that makes sense; unfortunately, really :(
<crimsun> persia: applying whatever patches from audacity to the newer pa19 [if applicable] 
<persia> crimsun: OK.  That way, audacity gets JACK support whenever portaudio is fixed.  I'll take a look at it, and respin audacity if I am successful.  Thanks.
<crimsun> persia: thank /you/
* persia really just wanted to not use wx2.4
<crimsun> 2.4 is much more mature than 2.6 even if it's not as nice on the eyes
<crimsun> there are an unbelievable number of workarounds for 2.6's unicode mess in vlc
<persia> crimsun: It doesn't handle unicode (lots of localisation bugs), and it breaks when using wxGetUserName (and my patch for 2.8 and 2.6 doesn't backport cleanly).
<crimsun> yes, but 2.6's unicode is arguably even more ... interesting.
<persia> crimsun: I cannot disagree, but I'd prefer it being odd to issues like the results of running audacity from the archives in a RU.UTF8 locale (and selecting Russian as the display language).  The menus are unusable (and that's only KOI8)
<crimsun> whatever makes our users happy, I suppose.
* persia investigates vlc to take advantage of previous herculean efforts to handle unicode as source material for other wx2.4->wx2.6 porting.
<crimsun> ->coffee
<Xk2c_> night
<crimsun> DaD seems to discard previous Ubuntu changelog entries for the case where foo-0ubuntu[1..x]  was uploaded into Ubuntu prior to Debian foo-1
<crimsun> see DaD's grab-merge.sh of galago-gtk-python, for instance
<crimsun> we shouldn't be discarding those entries
<Fujitsu> crimsun: I believe it's only when the .orig.tar.gz differs.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Check the diffs, the base->ubuntu one is probably empty.
<crimsun> yep
<Fujitsu> I've notified Lu*tin about
<Fujitsu> *about that
<Fujitsu> Has anything changed with regard to the need for running dh_iconcache in debian/rules?
<crimsun> not AFAIK
<Fujitsu> It's annoying having to keep a delta for such a small thing :(
<crimsun> hmm, 2.6.22-1.5 and lilo don't play nicely
<Fujitsu> Hm, eb was synced 3 days ago, yet it hasn't disappeared from DaD yet.
<crimsun> hmm, well 2 more sync requests
<crimsun> I would just like to add that DaD's comment field in the web ui is a great example of "doing the right thing".
<Fujitsu> Just in that it is there, or is there some behaviour of it?
<crimsun> both.  I typed in "sync bug #foo", and it placed it in the leading column correctly
<Fujitsu> Ah, yes.
<Fujitsu> It's very useful :)
<crimsun> hmm
<crimsun> is it not possible to sync newer upstream versions from Debian unstable?
<crimsun> RE: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wxwindows2.4/+bug/104390
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 104390 in wxwindows2.4 "[sync request]  wxwindows2.4 2.4.5.1.1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Rejected]  
<crimsun> of course the md5sums won't match; they're completely different tarballs (as native)
<crimsun> the point was that 2.4.5.1ubuntu2 is subsumed by 2.4.5.1.1
<dabaR_> Can I ask questions about bugs here as well?
<dabaR_> About fixing them.
<dabaR_> Triaging rather.
<crimsun> sure.
<dabaR_> It seems https://launchpad.net/bugs/112725 is not a bug. Can someone help me figure it out, please?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112725 in rhythmbox "MP3 files" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Fujitsu> crimsun: ubuntu2 > .1
<crimsun> Fujitsu: oh right.  duh.
<crimsun> dabaR_: actually it is a bug.
<Fujitsu> I hate that aspect of the versioning :(
<crimsun> dabaR_: looking at ProcMaps.txt, note:
<crimsun> b5932000-b5951000 r-xp 00000000 08:02 2829335    /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstflump3dec.so
<crimsun> b5951000-b5952000 rw-p 0001f000 08:02 2829335    /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstflump3dec.so
<Fujitsu> Why did it get an extra bit, anyway?
<crimsun> dabaR_: reassign it to the gst-fluendo-mp3 source package.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: good question.
<Fujitsu> Surely it had enough components already.
<dabaR_> Just to confirm, I click upstream, select that package, and then reject it for the package it was originally filed?
<crimsun> dabaR_: no, click the name of the source package under Affects and change it to gst-fluendo-mp3
<dabaR_> crimsun: OK, thank you very much :-) 
<Fujitsu> Woah, almost 1200 items in NEW>
<Fujitsu> Is there any reason stuff from contrib/non-free wouldn't be in Ubuntu, other than just not being imported?
<crimsun> I think that's the reason.  Colin mentioned it requiring a separate rune.
<Flannel> Anyone happen to know where I can get a dapper version of sobby 0.4?
<Fujitsu> It's not picked up by the autosync, I know that.
<Fujitsu> And there's no list around that I know of, so I'm making one.
<crimsun> fla	backport it using dpbuilder
<crimsun> ugh, lag
<Fujitsu> Um, that didn't appear very well.
<crimsun> Flannel: backport it using pbuilder
<Fujitsu> Or backport it using prevu. Except that you'll have to backport prevu first :P
<jdong> Fujitsu: lol isn't that an awesome catch-22?
<Fujitsu> jdong: I know!
<jdong> Fujitsu: actually prevu's all python; feisty debs should work for edgy too
<crimsun> or checkinstall it for great justice
* Fujitsu kicks crimsun.
<crimsun> =)
<jdong> YAY PIDGIN PACKAGING!!!11111one
<jdong> lol
<dabaR_> Is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gaim/+bug/112720 a real bug?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112720 in gaim "cap plugin is missing" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<crimsun> dabaR_: yes, wishlist
<crimsun> it's completely intentional.
<dabaR_> I can then say confirmed, wishlist?
<crimsun> if you can in fact confirm it, yes
<dabaR_> OK.
<Flannel> crimsun: Id love to.  Never done it before.  Got any documentation?  Also, can't use PREVU, since, I have no GUI.
<jdong> Flannel: prevu doesn't have a GUI....
<jdong> it depends on pbuilder and devscripts, and is all CLI
<Flannel> jdong: really?  thought it was a gUI based thing.
<Flannel> nevermind then.
<jdong> not at all :)
<dabaR_> I have checked that I am using the same version, and looked over the plugin list, and it does not show that plugin. Does that mean I have confirmed it?
<jdong> it's basically an automatic pbuilder-backporter
<crimsun> dabaR_: yes
<dabaR_> The importance seems locked(lock icon beside it).
<crimsun> changed.
<crimsun> (you need to be a bugsquad member IIRC)
<Flannel> anything I should be aware of with pbuilder on dapper?  And, I just download the source from (where?) and then do the pbuilder thing?
<Fujitsu> crimsun: ubuntu-qa
<crimsun> I can't keep up with all these groups
<crimsun> granted being in core gives me implicit membership, I suppose?
<Fujitsu> -dev is the one that gives you implicit membership, but yes.
<Fujitsu> Oh, -core-dev is a direct member too, though it's not necessary.
<dabaR_> crimsun: should I do something to be able to change them in the future?
<dabaR_> I mean, should I do something now...
<Fujitsu> dabaR_: You need to be trusted and experienced enough to be added to the ubuntu-qa group.
<dabaR_> OK. That is why I added now:)
<Flannel> hmm.  For the record, it seems prevu has been already made available for dapper.  Or, so it claims (and it seemed to install alright)
<dabaR_> OK. There is a bug #112720, and I confirmed it by installing bootcd-i386, and running the bootcdwrite command. Then I looked at the line that is wrong, and I looked up the fact that bash functions do not use () So I changed that in the file that is referenced in the error message.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112720 in gaim "cap plugin is missing" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112720
<dabaR_> I still got errors. Then I changed the sh link to bash(I actually think I broke something, but will see later), adn then there were no more error messages.
<dabaR_> Sorry, that is not the bug #.
<dabaR_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bootcd/+bug/112729
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112729 in bootcd "/usr/share/bootcd/bootcd-run.lib: 144: Syntax error: "(" unexpected" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<crimsun> retitle it to prepend [bashism] 
<dabaR_> Title is summary in LP?
<crimsun> yes
<dabaR_> OK. That i all I do?
<crimsun> you can confirm it
<dabaR_> What about the fact that I found a way to resolve it? And I do not understand the change of the title, what was that about?
<dabaR_> Ah...
<dabaR_> It works when you change your shell to bash.
<dabaR_> So the package maintainer will be able to know what to do if that is the title?
<crimsun> it's a start
<dabaR_> Oh, I get it. I was supposed to leave the same title, but put [bashism]  in front. Not change the name to "prepend[bashism] "
<dabaR_> Can I get the source of the package, and get help from you to make the necessary changes?
<crimsun> sure.  Do you want to fix the bashism or just fix the symptom?
<dabaR_> The one that you suggest to be done. I will need help with pretty much everything, so maybe you can choose what is easier to you.
<dabaR_> I think I want to fix the bashism.
<crimsun> ok, that's the correct but more difficult fix
<dabaR_> Sounds like the right thing to do.
<dabaR_> Right.
<crimsun> ooh, it's in 7.04
<dabaR_> I just got the source.
<crimsun> I guess we have to do an SRU, which means the least invasive fix
<dabaR_> So then the easier thing?
<crimsun> in which case we just /bin/sh -> /bin/bash
<dabaR_> The thing is that the file is a .lib
<dabaR_> Otherwise I would have done that initially.
<dabaR_> This way I do not get how to do that.
<dabaR_> I have to take 10. Bbiab.
<crimsun> dabaR_: no, it's just a snippet in ascii.
<crimsun> $ file bootcd-run.lib
<crimsun> bootcd-run.lib: ASCII English text
<dabaR_> Sorry I do not get your point.
<dabaR_> Or the implications of it
<crimsun> it's a text file that's included/parsed by other scripts
<crimsun> don't mind the extension (filename); it's still a shell script
<crimsun> the list of files that need to be fixed is revealed by:
<crimsun> for i in `grep -nH 'bootcd-run.lib' * |awk -F: '{print $1}'`; do grep -nH 'bin/sh' $i; done
<crimsun> this reveals that two files need to be changed in the SRU, bootcdmkinitrd and bootcdwrite
<dabaR_> For me it the one-liner does not return results.
<crimsun> did you extract the source?
<crimsun> dpkg-source -x bootcd_3.00.dsc
<crimsun> cd bootcd-3.00
<crimsun> for i in `grep -nH 'bootcd-run.lib' * |awk -F: '{print $1}'`; do grep -nH 'bin/sh' $i; done
<dabaR_> oops, sorry, one sec.
<Ursinha> hi all
<Ursinha> i'm trying to install ubuntu via network, and i'm getting a bad signature problem
<crimsun> Ursinha: #ubuntu, please.
<Ursinha> crimsun, i've already asked there, no answers
<Ursinha> not even google
<Ursinha> nothing
<crimsun> Ursinha: even still, this is the incorrect channel.
<Ursinha> i thought it may be a bug, so i'm here
<dabaR_> OK. I think I am up to where I want to be. I now changed those two files to reference /bin/bash.
<crimsun> dabaR_: right, make sure you change all the instances in bootcdmkinitrd
<crimsun> dabaR_: (there are three)
<dabaR_> Right, the grep told us that. I have now, thanks.
<dabaR_> I have now changed all 3 references, that is.
<crimsun> dabaR_: now add your changelog entries, then generate a debdiff against the current 7.04 version
<dabaR_> Is that in the same directory the ChangeLog file?
<crimsun> debian/changelog
<dabaR_> crimsun: I am not sure what to write there.
<crimsun> did you dch -i ?
<dabaR_> This is the first time I am doing something like this, if it was not obvious:). No.
<dabaR_> Hm...
<jdong> Ubuntu uses avahi-daemon for mdns, right?
* jdong trying to enlighten his FBSD box with mdns goodness
<dabaR_> crimsun: I wrote * Changed bootcdmkinitrd and bootcdwrite to use /bin/bash rather than /bin/sh
<crimsun> jdong: IIRC
<dabaR_> BTW, my email address is shown as <dbernar1@dabar>, can/should I change that?
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> e.g.,   (flood)
<crimsun> bootcd (3.00ubuntu0.1) feisty-proposed; urgency=low
<crimsun>   * {bootcdmkinitrd,bootcdwrite}: Use /bin/bash rather than /bin/sh,
<crimsun>     LP: #112729.
<crimsun>  -- Daniel Chen <crimsun@Box.ncat.edu>  Sat, 05 May 2007 22:25:30 -0400
<crimsun> (it's humourous to note that I used a bashism in the changelog entry :-)
<dabaR_> Will you use your version, or mine?
<crimsun> use my version, but use your name and email address
<dabaR_> Ugh, I hope I did not break the syntax.
<dabaR_> I have
<dabaR_>   * {bootcdmkinitrd,bootcdwrite}: Use /bin/bash rather than /bin/sh,
<dabaR_>     LP:  #112729.
<dabaR_>  -- Dan Bernardic <dan.bernardic@gmail.com>  Sat,  5 May 2007 21:29:11 -0500
<dabaR_> Now.
<crimsun> did you use "bootcd (3.00ubuntu0.1) feisty-proposed; urgency=low", too?
<crimsun> that part is vital
<dabaR_> Ah.
<dabaR_> Then I have:
<dabaR_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19371/
<crimsun> yes, that should be above "bootcd (3.00) unstable; urgency=low"
<crimsun> save it, then execute:  debuild -S
<dabaR_> And the 7 lines.
<dabaR_> I mean, it is above +--  7 lines: bootcd (3.00) unstable; urgency=low -- Bernd Schumacher  -------------------------------------------
<crimsun> yes, since you're using vim
<dabaR_> I am having trouble with gpg. I will go read the help page about gpg to fix it, unless you want to help me fix it.
<crimsun> oh, debuild -uc -us -S
<crimsun> you don't really need to sign it, since I'll have to sign it anyhow
<dabaR_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19372/ ?
<dabaR_> The ? helps a lot :)
<crimsun> that's correct so far
<Flannel> So, using prevu (trying to get sobby onto dapper), I did 'libnet6-1.3-0' and then sudo prevu-update, and then tried to prevu libobby-0.4-0, which depends on libnet6, but it says it "Tried versions: 1:1.3.1-2~6.06prevu1" but that doesn't satisfy.  Do I need to do something else?  Should I asking elsewhere?
<crimsun> now,  debdiff bootcd_3.00.dsc bootcd_3.00ubuntu0.1.dsc >bootcd_3.00ubuntu0.1.debdiff
<crimsun> Flannel: walk the stack.  You need to backport that lib first.
<Flannel> crimsun: that is the lib.  And I already backported it (which is what the tried thing says, right?)
<Flannel> crimsun: -> Considering  libnet6-1.3-dev (>= 1:1.3.1-2) //       Tried versions: 1:1.3.1-2~6.06prevu1 //    -> Does not satisfy version, not trying
<dabaR_> I messed up something. Or you mispelled. I do not have bootcd_3.00ubuntu0.1.dsc, I have bootcd_3.00ubuntu1.dsc only 
<crimsun> err, no, then I messed up.
<crimsun> you should use 3.00ubuntu0.1, not 3.00ubuntu1
<crimsun> that's our standard SRU version syntax
<crimsun> (for -updates and -security)
<dabaR_> I did the dch -i thing wrong.
<crimsun> no you didn't
<crimsun> it was correct
<dabaR_> And you reviewed it but did not spot the error, as far as I can see.
<crimsun> right, that was why I said it was my fault
<dabaR_> A-ha.
<dabaR_> I should read better:)
<pwnguin> how do i put in a request to merge a package from debian into gutsy?
<crimsun> pwnguin: well, one doesn't request a merge as much as do the legwork for the merge (i.e., actually merge it) then ask for a sponsor
<pwnguin> ah
<pwnguin> then mergomatic is for?
<RAOF> Making it easier to merge :)
<Fujitsu> Doing part of the legwork
<Flannel> crimsun: do I need to install that lib to be able to backport the next lib? or is prevu-update enough?
<crimsun> Flannel: I'm pretty sure you need to backport that lib first, but I haven't been paying attention
<Flannel> crimsun: I did backport the lib.  sobby (and libobby) depend on libnet6-whatever, I did the libnet6 thing, and am now trying to do libobby, but I get: -> Considering  libnet6-1.3-dev (>= 1:1.3.1-2) // Tried versions: 1:1.3.1-2~6.06prevu1 // -> Does not satisfy version, not trying
<RAOF> pwnguin: You can request syncs, though you pretty much need to do the merge work and find that there's nothing to merge :)
<Flannel> crimsun: which, I think is saying that it sees 1:1.3.1-2(with the prevu extension), but isn't.. using it. for some reason
<Flannel> is 1:1.3.1-2 higher than 1:1.3.1-2~something?
<crimsun> yes
<Flannel> the one sans tilda is higher?
<pwnguin> RAOF: its just a php pear module. given that theres a ton of other modules already in ubuntu, im not sure how it would be any different (though i guess i should check an existing one first)
<crimsun> see dpkg --compare-versions
<crimsun> Flannel: ~ signifies a lowering
<Flannel> crimsun: I see.  So, how do I get prevu to build that library?
<Flannel> The command I just finished before this, was `prevu libnet6-1.3-dev` and I think it completed.
<crimsun> Flannel: you'll need to ask jdong 
<RAOF> pwnguin: Is it not already in Ubuntu, or is there a higher version in unstable (and the current Ubuntu version is -?ubuntu?)?
<Flannel> if it didn't, it was sneaky about errors
<Flannel> crimsun: alright, thanks for your help.
<pwnguin> RAOF: it's in unstable, but not in ubuntu at all. are there general differences between source packages for debian vs ubuntu?
<crimsun> dabaR_: have you generated the debdiff?
<jdong> Flannel: you need to edit your source package to depend on ${Source-version} or 1:1.3.1-2~7.04prevu1
<jdong> whichever makes sense
<RAOF> pwnguin: Then that's not a merge (since there's no existing Ubuntu version to merge).  I thought unstable got auto-syncd, but maybe you'll need to manually file a sync request. 
<Flannel> jdong: You mean ~6.06prevu1?
<jdong> yeah
<pwnguin> RAOF: ah. sorry for the flub on terms
<pwnguin> so where do i file a sync request for php-xml-rss?
<RAOF> pwnguin: That's OK.  Part of what the channel's for :)
<crimsun> pwnguin: what's the name of the source package?
<Flannel> jdong: so, I'll need to manually edit each package that has a depend that I'm also backporting?
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: If it's not in contrib or non-free, it will be synced automatically.
<jdong> Flannel: only if it depends on such an aggressively new package.
<pwnguin> maybe im just using the wrong tools to see what's available
<pwnguin> everyone says packages.ubuntu.com isn't good
<crimsun> pwnguin: likely.  What's the name of the source package?
<Flannel> jdong: Whats the definition of 'agressively new'?
<pwnguin> crimsun: php-xml-rss :P
<jdong> Flannel: the precise version of the package you backported
<crimsun> pwnguin: it's in source NEW awaiting approval.  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=php-xml-rss
<jdong> usually it's a revision or two below, so it will be able to pass the dep version check
<dabaR_> crimsun: I have a file called bootcd_3.00ubuntu0.1.debdiff. It took me a while to figure out that I should be doing it over again.
<Flannel> jdong: That was the same version, minus the ~6.06prevu1, wasn't it?
<crimsun> pwnguin: sorry, binary NEW, not source NEW  (since it has already built)
<jdong> Flannel: yes. it is not too common that a dependency is exactly the version that one backports
<pwnguin> crimsun: ok. thanks. it's okay. i was hoping to find it in feisty, but i guess it missed a window or something
<crimsun> dabaR_: can you pastebin that file?
<jdong> the version number of a backport should be lower than the origin. that is an intended behavior of prevu, for upgrading safety
<pwnguin> or actually, its newer than when feisty synced and i guess nobody asked for it
<dabaR_> crimsun: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19377/
<Flannel> jdong: I understand that.  So, wouldn't all dependencies bcakported be lower, and as such, each (one or more backport dependent package) will require tweaking?
<jdong> Flannel: what you are seeing is a rare case where the version number is EXACTLY the same. I am telling you that does not happen terribly often. Usually the dependency is something like (>= 1.2.3-1) when the version you backport is 1.2.3-5 or something
<Flannel> jdong: Oh.  I understand.  Normally the versions are X, but that version is already X+1.  I understand now, thanks.
<jdong> right
<Flannel> right.  that makes complete sense now.  thanks again.
<crimsun> dabaR_: excellent.  Please attach that to bug 112729
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112729 in bootcd "prepend [bashism] " [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112729
<jdong> no problem; anytime
<dabaR_> crimsun: Done, I believe.
<Flannel> heh, alright.  More newbie questions.  Where do I edit (after apt-get source) the versions of the package depends?
<jdong> Flannel: the file is debian/control
<crimsun> dabaR_:
<crimsun>   bootcd_3.00ubuntu0.1_source.changes: done.
<crimsun> Successfully uploaded packages.
<Flannel> jdong: right, just found it.  thanks
<jdong> Flannel: after editing, run "prevu" with no arguments in current directory
<jdong> prevu will understand how to build a extracted debian source directory
<crimsun> dabaR_: congrats, you've completed your first universe SRU
<Simon80> hey, are any of the developers here familiar with libtxc_dxtn?
<dabaR_> crimsun: hehe. You are not only technically excellent, but also have great skills in communicating with people, and working with you on something is a pleasure.
<Flannel> jdong: the directory with the four package files (well, three then the contents?) or the contents directory?
<dabaR_> crimsun: do we have to do anything else?
<Simon80> it's a library that gets dlopened by mesa, separated only for legal reasons, and not intended for use by anything else
<jdong> crimsun: yep, avahi-daemon+nss-mdns are what Ubuntu uses. my freebsd box is now zeroconfed!
<dabaR_> crimsun: in terms of telling the person that reported the bug that it is fixed, and that.
<jdong> Flannel: the directory that contains the debian/ directory
<crimsun> dabaR_: sometime next week, a member of the ubuntu-sru team will approve it.  Once it's available, he will let us know, and I'll post an email to ubuntu-motu asking for testing.
<Simon80> so, I'm wondering whether there are any real problems associated with putting a library lacking a soname in /usr/lib, if it isn't going to get used in any other fashion than that
<crimsun> dabaR_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<Flannel> jdong: I get warning: new version (0.4.1-1~6.06prevu1) is less than the current version number (0.4.1-1)., do I need to also change it's version? or just ignore that?
<crimsun> ->phone
<jdong> Flannel: that is normal, ignore the error
<Flannel> jdong: thanks
<Simon80> anyone free to answer my question?
<dabaR_> crimsun: having read that page, I think there are 2 things that we did different. Our bug does not seem to satisfy the "When". We used a different version number.
<Fujitsu> dabaR_: It's a regression, and the stuff about version numbers there is wrong. I'll fix that.
<dabaR_> Fujitsu: OK, thank you.
<dabaR_> crimsun: Thank you for teaching me how to do this.
<Flannel> Hmm.  Ok, one more silly question.  In debian/control, there's ${misc:Depends}, where is that variable held?
<jdong> it is added on by various build scripts
<jdong> I don't think many things use misc:Depends
<Simon80> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-control
<Fujitsu> Flannel: You probably want to play with Build-Depends if prevu is failing.
<Flannel> Fujitsu: this isn't prevu, this is after I'm installing it
<Simon80> there's a bit in there about dh_shlibdeps
<Fujitsu> Oh, I see.
<Flannel> installing my backported package, still has the sans ~6.06prevu1 depend
<Flannel> jdong: should I just swap that line out for the depends listed in apt-cache show?
<Flannel> just ditch the variables all together
<jdong> Flannel: no no, you should only be editing build-depends
<jdong> not Depends:
<jdong> wait it's failing while you're installing it?
<jdong> then it may be a Depends: problem.
<jdong> what dependency is it failing on?
<Flannel> yeah, let me get you the exact error
<Flannel> sobby: Depends: libobby-0.4-0 (>= 0.4.1-1) but it is not going to be installed
<jdong> on another topic, how to force dpkg to reinstall an init script?
<Flannel> because I have libobby-0.4.1-1~6.06prevu1
<jdong> Flannel: that line should be in Depends: then
<Flannel> jdong: right, depends is this: Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
<jdong> hmm... why would either of those generate a specific Debian version dependency?
<jdong> I am baffled, consult other MOTU deities
<Fujitsu> jdong: No idea, that's why I'm quiet.
<Fujitsu> I have no idea.
<Fujitsu> I've no idea how shlibs works.
<jdong> Flannel: grep for 0.4.1 in the debian/ directory
<jdong> Fujitsu: I thought shlibs was incapable of selecting any version other than the installed version in the builder
<Fujitsu> jdong: Apparently not.
<Flannel> jdong: only thing I get is the build-deps line
<jdong> at this point, I don't know
<Flannel> Hmm.  I changed the Depends line on libobby, would that have done it?
<Flannel> Depends: libobby-0.4-0 (= ${Source-Version}), libnet6-1.3-dev (>= 1:1.3.1-2~6.06prevu1), libavahi-compat-howl-dev, libavahi-client-dev
<Simon80> what's up with the -0.4-0?
<Simon80> is that supposed to be the version?
<Flannel> that's for libobby-0.4-dev section of that (out of four)
<Simon80> nvm
<Simon80> I see in my own package index
<jdong> Flannel: take out the entore (= ${Source-Version}) section
<jdong> MOTUS LOOK AWAY :D
<jdong> lol
<Flannel> jdong: that's on the library, not sobby itself
<Simon80> lol
<jdong> that is precisely what's failing
<jdong> "libobby-0.4-0 (>= 0.4.1-1)"
<jdong> from the original error
<Flannel> the original apt- error?
<Flannel> that apt error is for sobby, the Source-Version is in the libobby package (which sobby depends, and the sobby depends were what couldnt be satisfied)
<Simon80> hmm, I guess dh_shlibdeps must be dropping the ~ part, right?
<jdong> Simon80: I don't think dh_shlibdeps generates that... I think it might be a misc:Depends expansion
<Simon80> oh, right
<jdong> Simon80: I've never seen dh_shlibdeps pick up any version other than (1) unversioned (2) version installed in the pbuilder
<Flannel> did you see my last?
<jdong> Flannel: what is the Depends line from? the one that you pasted?
<Simon80> what package is failing to be installed?
<jdong> I see it as sobby wants libobby
<jdong> which means edit sobby's debian/control
<Flannel> The one with the expands is sobby, the one with the source-version is libobby
<Flannel> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}  is obby.
<Flannel> er, libobby
<Flannel> darn all these similar packages.
<Flannel> no.  Gaah
<Flannel> the one I just pasted is sobby
<Simon80> did you forget to put ~prevu whatever on the end of sobby?
<Flannel> sobby has just those two things: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
<Simon80> in its control?
<Flannel> yes
<Flannel> it expands (I believE) to: Depends: libavahi-compat-howl0 (>= 0.6.0), libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.0.2), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.10.0), libglibmm-2.4-1c2a, libgnutls12 (>= 1.2.5), libnet6-1.3-0 (>= 1:1.3.1-1), libobby-0.4-0 (>= 0.4.1-1), libsigc++-2.0-0c2a (>= 2.0.2), libstdc++6 (>= 4.0.2-4), libxml++2.6c2a, libxml2 (>= 2.6.24), zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1)
<Flannel> which is what I get with apt-cache show sobby
<Simon80> ok, the problem is that libobby in your pbuilder chroot is missing the ~prevu thing
<jdong> then what is the one you posted a second ago?
<jdong> Depends: libobby-0.4-0 (= ${Source-Version}), libnet6-1.3-dev  (>= 1:1.3.1-2~6.06prevu1), libavahi-compat-howl-dev,  libavahi-client-dev
<Flannel> jdong: heh. which one I posted?
<jdong> ^^ what is that from??
<Flannel> jdong: thats libobby
<jdong> ok
<Simon80> libobby-0.4-dev, right?
<Flannel> let me double check, but I believe so
* jdong attempts identical backport
<Flannel> yes.
<jdong> wait a second....
<Flannel> jdong: you'll also need libnet6-1.3-0 (and first)
<Flannel> jdong: apt-get source libobby-0.4-dev downloads and unpacks to a folder `obby-0.4.1`, which I thought was odd, but tried it again, and same results
<jdong> yes, the source package name is obby
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
<Fujitsu> Hm, I see that LP beta just got turned off.
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
<Simon80> oh LP
<jdong> yay lovely, nothing as wonderful as openafs oopsing while saving a 10 page paper.
<Fujitsu> jdong: Yay :)
<jdong> for the record, I am placing all blame on CMU.
<dn4> Counter Music University
<dn4> i'd blame CMU too jdong
<jdong> :)
<jdong> ok, good, obby building
<jdong> building sobby...
<dn4> anyoen know details about ubuntustudio being in the ubuntu universe
<jdong> Flannel: it installs fine for me
<jdong> Depends: libavahi-compat-howl0 (>= 0.6.0), libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.0.2), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.9.3), libglibmm-2.4-1c2a, libgmp3c2, libgmpxx3, libnet6-1.2-0, libobby-0.3-0 (>= 0.3.0-2), libsigc++-2.0-0c2a (>= 2.0.2), libstdc++6 (>= 4.0.2-4)
<jdong> that's the depends line that mine generated
<Flannel> jdong: that's the dapper version.  Im doing the feisty one
<Flannel> (on dapper)
<jdong> Flannel: remove the version number on libobby altogether
<jdong> n the build deps
<jdong> that's the only difference I made
<jdong> (this is the feisty one, backported
<jdong> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), autotools-dev, pkg-config, libnet6-1.3-dev (>= 1:1.3.1-2), libobby-0.4-dev, libglibmm-2.4-dev (>= 2.6.0), libxml++2.6-dev (>= 2.6.1-2.2)
<jdong> I completely stripped the version number off libobby0.4-dev
<Flannel> jdong: really?  those versions are all wrong.  libobby-0.3-0 is in dapper, and libnet6-1.2 is in dapper and stuff
<jdong> or put in fakely lower version numbers
<jdong> that would get the job done too
<Flannel> just to satiate dpkg, you mean
<jdong> yes
<Flannel> alright
<jdong> I think shlibdeps may not handle these version numbers properly
<jdong> let me double check what happens with stripping off the versions
<Flannel> well, I'll just put in my version.  Youre recommending to just ditch both those variable expands, and just paste in what they actually expand to, right?
<jdong> Flannel: it works
<jdong> NO.
<jdong> Inst libnet6-1.3-0 (1:1.3.4-1~6.06prevu1 localhost)
<jdong> Inst libobby-0.4-0 (0.4.4-1~6.06prevu1 localhost)
<Flannel> jdong: Then... how do I edit versions?
<jdong> ^^ they resolve correctly
<jdong> edit your Build-Depends to match mine
<jdong> it will gneerate packages with incorrect versions (too low)
<Flannel> on sobby?
<jdong> but apt responds correctly by installing the newest available version
<jdong> yes, on sobby
<jdong> remove the versions on net6 and libobby
<jdong> and you will be fine
<Flannel> alright, building
<jdong> one sec, need to reboot
<Simon80> dd if=gouki of=/dev/bed && rm gouki
<Flannel> jdong: still `sobby: Depends: libobby-0.4-0 (>= 0.4.1-1) but it is not going to be installed`
<jdong> what version did you replace in?
<Flannel> none
<Flannel> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), autotools-dev, pkg-config, libnet6-1.3-dev, libobby-0.4-dev, libglibmm-2.4-dev (>= 2.6.0), libxml++2.6-dev (>= 2.6.1-2.2)
<jdong> I have no idea where it is picking up that version then
<Simon80> is Flannel not using pbuilder?
<Flannel> Simon80: prevu
<Simon80> right... /me knows not much about prevu
<Flannel> Simon80: prevu uses pbuilder
<Simon80> I thought so
<jdong> prevu is a wrapper around pdebuild
<jdong> it mangles the version string, then passes control to pdebuild
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> but how do we know that the backported version of libobby is being installed in the pbuilder
<Fujitsu> Can a core-dev please accept the Edgy task of bug #80317?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 80317 in zope2.9 "Critical bug in Zope 2.9.5 (Edgy)" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80317
<crimsun> done.
<Fujitsu> Thanks crimsun.
<Fujitsu> Hm, LP is a bit strange at times.
<Fujitsu> I just filed a bug:
<Fujitsu> `first reported in 9 seconds'
<Fujitsu> Damnit, all my actions are happening in the future!
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You're at UDS?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yep!
<Hobbsee> morning all!
<Fujitsu> How is it?
<Hobbsee> fun :D
<Hobbsee> we had a MOTU discussion on the couches yesterday - that was good
<crimsun> so where's my pony?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: NOPONYFORYOU!
<minghua> poor crimsun
<Hobbsee> very
* Hobbsee drags crimsun over here
<StevenK> What a long reach you have.
<Hobbsee> yep
<Hobbsee> and what pointy teeth, too!
* Fujitsu is eaten.
<minghua> long reach and pointy teeth somehow make me think of elephants
<StevenK> I didn't think elephants had pointy teeth...
<StevenK> Tusks aren't teeth, either.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Neither, but you never know.
<minghua> StevenK: well, in Chinese there is no difference between tusks and teeth, they are the same word
<minghua> but then again, dictionary says "tusk: either of the two long pointed teeth which stick out from the mouth of some animals such as elephants".
* Fujitsu files a bug against Chinese for confusing two distinct concepts.
<minghua> Fujitsu: nice.  share the URL when you find the BTS for Chinese :-)
<jk__> hello.  what's the best way to go about getting involved, perhaps taking over maintaining some package ?
<crimsun> we don't have single maintainers per se
<crimsun> please see the trailing link in the topic
<nixternal> hola MOTUs
<lifeless> hola
<Hobbsee> hola!
<lifeless> ?!
<persia> Fujitsu: Regarding gdal: if you have time, could you help me get it sorted?  ogdi-dfsg needs an upload (112618), and gdal needs an ACK (112630).
<ajmitch> hey hoora_ 
<ajmitch> oops :)
<ajmitch> ENOHOBBSEE
<Amaranth> Seveas: wow you work fast
<Seveas> Amaranth, ?
<Amaranth> the cloak and the fact that we aren't klined, etc
<Seveas> That's elmos work, he did that yesterday or friday
<Seveas> I'm using vpn to my home anyway, so no k-line or cloak for me :)
<Amaranth> oh?
<Amaranth> i thought that was your job
<Amaranth> as the group contact
<Seveas> I didn't know the ip etc...
<jussi01> morning motu's, I have a question - i am trying to get a package to build, but i keep getting this error: configure: error: QTDIR environment variable must be set what might i be doing wrong?
<RAOF> jussi01: It seems to be looking for QT, and can't find it.  I suppose you have the appropriate QT dev packages installed?
<jussi01> RAOF: I think so... they are listed in the control file... but maybe i have the wrong ones...
<RAOF> Ah, pbuilding?
<jussi01> yeah
<jussi01> hence why the question was asked here... :D
<RAOF> Hm.  Pastebin the whole buildlog?  There's probably something further up in configure that give a better idea.
<gpocentek> jussi01: look at the kde.mk class in cdbs, I think it uses the correct ./configure options for qt apps (qt includes dir for instance)
<jussi01> RAOF: its pretty standard at the mo... btw, how do i go about figuring out which qt libs to use?  there seems to be loads of them
<jussi01> gpocentek: Im using debhelper, havent figured out cdbs yet :(
<gpocentek> jussi01: cdbs_configure_flags += --with-qt-dir=/usr/share/qt3 --disable-rpath --with-xinerama 
<RAOF> There's nothing in CDBS to figure out.  You #include the kde stuff, and hope :)
<gpocentek> --with-qt-dir is the option you need to use I think
<jussi01> :D thanks 
* jussi01 crosses his fingers...
<RAOF> ScottK: Was it you that would like access to an AMD64 build machine?
<jussi01> RAOF: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19410/
* jussi01 cries
<shawarma> Er... Just set it?
<RAOF> Awesome.  What software is this again.
<RAOF> Just set it, yeah.
<shawarma> I know nothing about qt or kde, but prepending QTDIR=/usr/share/qt3 seems logical.
<shawarma> jussi01: Have you tried that?
<jussi01> shawarma: no, i will though :D
<jussi01> thank you
<shawarma> np
<jussi01> shawarma: 
<jussi01> so i put that on the line before it?
<shawarma> what? 
<ajmitch> hi shawarma 
<shawarma> ajmitch: Hi!
<shawarma> ajmitch: Where are you at?
<TheMuso> Heya ajmitch.
<ajmitch> shawarma: one of the tables down front
* shawarma is on the left of the stage.
<shawarma> jussi01: Any luck?
* TheMuso is envious of you all. :)
<jussi01> shawarma: its trying now... pbuilder...
* ajmitch is sitting near the feet of sladen, basking in his wisdom :)
<shawarma> Next to siretat?
<shawarma> Er.. siretart, of course.
<ajmitch> yep
<jussi01> damn i wish i could be there
<shawarma> jussi01: Just come!
<jussi01> shawarma: sorry, where did you say to pick up my plane ticket that you paid for?
<shawarma> jussi01: I've got it right here. Come and get it. :-)
<jussi01> :P
* jussi01 tickles shawarma
<sladen> ajmitch: that's the smell of my feet right :)
<shawarma> Please don't.
<shawarma> :)
<jussi01> :D
* jussi01 also wishes for a faster machine... slow freakin hard disk (5400rpm)
* siretart waves in the channel
* jussi01 waves back
* jussi01 wonders when ubuntustudio's turn on stage is...
<jussi01> i know its today sometime...
* ajmitch waves to siretart 
<shawarma> jussi01: You can listen in on what's on the stage?
<jussi01> no, just wondering when i shouldnt be annoying joejaxx..... :P
<jussi01> shawarma: i wish...
<shawarma> jussi01: Oh.
<joejaxx> jussi01: :P
<jussi01> shawarma: that worked, now i have a new error... configure: error: QMAKESPEC environment variable must be set
* RAOF wonders why that software even *has* a configure script.
* jussi01 doesnt know...but it does....
* jussi01 slaps the software...
<jussi01> :P
<shawarma> Google says to set it to something like /usr/lib/qt3/mkspecs/linux-g++/
<shawarma> Or qt4... whichever applies to your package, probalby.
<jussi01> ok... :D
<jussi01> shawarma: btw... look at this :D https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Sevilla/Participate
<jussi01> voip rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<shawarma> I know. :-) I just don't know if the main room is available.
<persia> shawarma: It is, but it's hard to hear the speakers.
<shawarma> persia: Oh, ok.
<ajmitch> it's hard enough in here :)
<jussi01> heh...ok
<jussi01> shawarma: yay, we got past that part :D (it worked). 
<jussi01> thank you:D
<shawarma> jussi01: np
<jussi01> grrr... syntax error... its got an extra && in it... 
* jussi01 cries...
<jussi01> if someone wants to help... http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19418/
<shawarma> jussi01: Where's the source?
<shawarma> jussi01: It's probably not an extra pair of &'s, but rather something that's missing in between the two sets.
<shawarma> i.e. some variable that's not set properly.
<jussi01> shawarma:  http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfedit/
<shawarma> jussi01: I need your packaging bits, too.
<jussi01> shawarma: ones ec..
<jussi01> one sec... :P
<jussi01> shawarma: got email? ill send you the tar....
<shawarma> jussi01: Sure. sh@linux2go.dk
<shawarma> Yay, spambots!
<joejaxx-uds> shawarma: haha
<shawarma> joejaxx-uds: Heck, 500 or 550 spam mails a day doesn't make much of a difference.
<gpocentek> jussi01: have you seen that pdfedit is in gutsy?
* jussi01 cries... gpocentek no...
<gpocentek> it is... it's been synced with debian
<jussi01> grrrr
<jussi01> well next project then
<gpocentek> and has been on REVU for a while, I archived it this week IIRC
<jussi01> grrr, i just looked yesterday... :(
<jussi01> shawarma: nevermind then...
<shawarma> jussi01: *G*
<gpocentek> jussi01: the first thing to dp before starting to work on a package is checking if it's in debian...
<gpocentek> s/dp/do
<jussi01> gpocentek: yep... learnt that the hard way...
<gpocentek> :)
<jussi01> looked through everything ubuntu had...
<jussi01> :(
<gpocentek> well, you learnt a few things about Qt builds, that's nice too :)
<jussi01> yeah, thats true :D
* jussi01 hums always look at the bright side of life from monty python.. :P
<persia> jussi01: You may also want to check debian-mentors and the debian wnpp list: both of these may not be in Debian yet, but can at least save you headache.
<jussi01> persia: thanks
<jussi01> hmmm.. is there a way to get only certain debs from gutsy repo's?
* jussi01 wants the pdfedit deb...
<persia> jussi01: Try https://launchpad.net/+source/pdfedit as a starting point.  The path is twisty, but binaries may be downloaded.  Source is easier.
<persia> Oops:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pdfedit
<gpocentek> or packages.ubuntu.com
<jussi01> packages.ubunut.com has gutsy now? yay :D
<crimsun> what are the rules for #uds-sevilla?  Only attendees?
<persia> crimsun: With attendees including those following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Sevilla/Participate
<TheMuso> crimsun: I'm in there.
<TheMuso> But take note. The voip sounds pretty bad atm.
<Fujitsu> Damn, the noise in 5001 is pretty bad.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Whats the quality like for you?
<persia> TheMuso: I heard the main room was expected to stay bad all conference: the sessions should be better.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Totally garbled, I can pick up the occasional syllable.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Same.
<TheMuso> Ekiga here is using PCM/A for in/out.
<Fujitsu> I'm using Twinkle.
<jussi01> gpocentek: you realise that the pdfedit in gutsy is missing a build dep?
<crimsun> ugh.  I'm firewalled.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Fun times!
<persia> crimsun: Is it STUN proof?
<Fujitsu> Arrrgh, so much static!
<Fujitsu> Not static, but close.
<crimsun> persia: even worse - it's locked by MAC.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: How was your test with spads?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: There was apparently a bit of static, but after testing with him in 5002 he said it was fine.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Did you test via the setup in 5002?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<crimsun> I can tunnel, but that's horrible latency, and from what people are saying about the issues now...
<persia> crimsun: By external MAC?  You could spoof and tunnel, but I suspect the consequences are undesireable...
<crimsun> right, see above.
<gpocentek> jussi01: I didn't look at the package
<Fujitsu> crimsun: It's more to do with the number of people in the room, I believe.
<jussi01> gpocentek: oh, ok...
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: How was your test via that? Mine was garbeled somewhat.
<TheMuso> I could understand him, but it was still not as good as it could be.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Same.
<Fujitsu> It wasn't great, but nor was it bad.
<TheMuso> No.
<TheMuso> Yet uds mountain view was better.
<TheMuso> Looks like the schedule is gone as well,.
<TheMuso> ...or not
<persia> TheMuso: It's better now :)
<Fujitsu> It was fine in 5000, so the mics in the rooms must be dodgy.
<TheMuso> yep
<Fujitsu> Hm, where'd everyone go?
<Fujitsu> Is it lunch time or something?
<crimsun> seems about that time
<TheMuso> they're a bit more quiet now...
<TheMuso> where do we get voip addresses?
<persia> TheMuso: Rooms 1-7 are 5002 - 5008.
<TheMuso> Right.
<Fujitsu> I can almost catch what he's saying.
<TheMuso> I can't. Probably because I'm listening to two sound sources.
<Fujitsu> I can understand him! Yay!
<TheMuso> They're starting quite late for the first day.
<TheMuso> I remember us starting at 11 or so in Paris.
<TheMuso> So is 5002 for room B?
<TheMuso> Well COllin is understandable.
<Fujitsu> So that was Colin?
<TheMuso> Yep.
<TheMuso> I recognise his voice.
<Fujitsu> I don't recognise anybody, of course.
<persia> TheMuso: I think.  Check on #uds-sevilla for confirmation.
<TheMuso> I'm guessing that its Matt talking.
<Fujitsu> mdz?
<TheMuso> I dunno. Can't hear well enough.
<TheMuso> I'm guessing, as things are starting to get under way
<Fujitsu> Ow, it's getting bad again.
<TheMuso> Look like everyone is moving off.
<TheMuso> The only session I'm interested in today is UbuntuStudio, which is up first.
<Kmos> Fujitsu: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror/lisa.gov.pt-release -> can you make a verify on this one ?
<Fujitsu> Um, no.
<Kmos> :(
<TheMuso> Did it die for anybody else?
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<Fujitsu> Completely :(
<TheMuso> same
<persia> Silence is golden.
<shawarma> Our network is down, it seems.
<shawarma> (some poor soul nearby has an open wifi)
<jussi01> lol
<Fujitsu> Nice.
<Kmos> shawarma: any la fonera open?
<Kmos> :)
<shawarma> It looks like there's about 15 of us who found it.
<shawarma> Kmos: Are they the ones called "kubi"?
<Kmos> the name can be changed
<shawarma> I don't know what la fonera is..
<Kmos> http://maps.fon.com/
<Fujitsu> shawarma: I pity whoever is running that.
<TheMuso> Same h ere.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Maybe this will teach him to encrypt it. :-)
<Fujitsu> shawarma: Do the first sessions start now, or in 2 hours?
<Kmos> there is a lot of fon's at seville
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Now.
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> So the schedule is in local time.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Yes.
<TheMuso> Are there channels for the different rooms?
<Kmos> http://kmos.homeip.net/~kmos/FON_ES.kml
<shawarma> TheMuso: Yes.
<TheMuso> Is there a list anywhere?
<shawarma> TheMuso: Or so I think anyway.
<TheMuso> Right.
<shawarma> TheMuso: Spads said they'd be on the schedule shortly.
<TheMuso> Right
<Lutin> Fujitsu: thanks for reporting the eb thing on DaD, it's a regexp error. I'll fix as soon as I can :)
<Fujitsu> Lutin: Thanks.
<Lutin> np
* TheMuso disconnects to save quota.
<Fujitsu> I just did the same.
<TheMuso> I wonder what sort of connection they have for the uds?
<crimsun> if it's a hotel connection, probably a pittance
* TheMuso tries to remember back to Paris, and what they did for network then.
<TheMuso> Looks like they're not going to be up any time soon...
<shawarma> No, James said he's working on it.
<shawarma> I think he said something about the ISP.
<Fujitsu> Poor elmo.
<TheMuso> oh great
<Fujitsu> They probably exceeded their upload quota or something :P
<crimsun> well, at least they shouldn't have to worry about that in Boston.
<shawarma> crimsun: Why?
<crimsun> "upload quota"
<shawarma> I don't think that's an issue anywhere in Europe either.
<crimsun> I can't speak for EU; I don't snarf Internet connections there.
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<shawarma> Whee!
<TheMuso> Now for the conference phones to come back onlie...
<TheMuso> online
<crimsun> wow, with so many esteemed Ubuntu members at UDS/Sevilla, I expect a pony any minute now.
<\sh> lol
<\sh> moins btw
<\sh> just reinstalled feisty on my satellite a100...this soundcard is not supported properly it seems
<\sh> crimsun, you are my sound professional ;) feisty and 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) High Definition Audio Controller (rev 02) 
* ajmitch returns to life
<\sh> crimsun, it's not as loud as it should be...even under windows it's louder
<crimsun> \sh: please read http://www.linux-sound.info/alsa/index.php?task=support and tell me the URL of the paste generated by the script linked from that page.
<crimsun> you'll need to execute it using bash  (``bash alsa-info.sh'')
* Fujitsu wills the VoIP units in the rooms to reboot.
<\sh> crimsun, http://pastebin.ca/473624
<crimsun> \sh: kill $(lsof -t /dev/dsp* /dev/mixer* /dev/audio* /dev/snd/*) && sudo modprobe -r $(lsmod |grep ^snd |awk '{print $1}') && sudo modprobe snd-hda-intel model=auto
<crimsun> fix already committed, waiting for feisty-updates upload
<\sh> crimsun, you want to have the output? ,-)
<crimsun> you shouldn't have any outstanding output
<\sh> crimsun, http://pastebin.ca/473638
<crimsun> oh right, this mess.
<crimsun> sudo modprobe -r $(lsmod |grep ^snd |awk '{print $1}') && sudo modprobe snd-hda-codec && sudo modprobe snd-hda-intel model=auto
<\sh> ah
<crimsun> does that fix the symptoms for you?
<Hobbsee> hi all
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: :D
<Fujitsu> You have a 'net connection again?
<\sh> crimsun, thx a lot...
<\sh> crimsun, where do I put those modules now in to autoload? somewhere in /etc/modprobe.d/?
<crimsun> \sh: well, does it in fact fix the symptom?
<\sh> crimsun, yepp
<crimsun> \sh: echo options snd-hda-intel model=auto|sudo tee -a /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base-hda-intel
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah.  no power yet, though
<Hobbsee> power to the router died before
<Fujitsu> Aha, I see.
<Hobbsee> and i didnt take my laptop down before
<Fujitsu> That's very nice of it.
<\sh> crimsun, and what about the snd-hda-codec ?
<Fujitsu> Have the sessions actually started?
<Hobbsee> yep
<Hobbsee> i'm in one now
<Fujitsu> How annoying.
<crimsun> \sh: moot, only affects snd-hda-intel.
<Fujitsu> The VoIP still isn't up :(
<Hobbsee> joejaxx-uds: interesting - where are you?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: wouldnt surprise me
<\sh> crimsun, hey you are my soundcard god really...
<Hobbsee> no power == no phone
<Hobbsee> we're in the basement...
<jsgotangco> no power??
* ajmitch pokes Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee pokes ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: yes...seems so
<joejaxx-uds> Hobbsee: i am in the ubuntu studio forum in room b
<Hobbsee> joejaxx-uds: ahh, i'm in D
<joejaxx-uds> Hobbsee: oh ok :)
* ajmitch is in salon colon :)
<tsmithe> joejaxx-uds: is the voip working in that room? i haven't heard anything on 5003
<Hobbsee> anyone got a kubuntu cd here?
<Hobbsee> (feisty)?
<joejaxx-uds> tsmithe: i do not think the polycom is powered
* Hobbsee may as well install a fresh copy to dist-upgrade
<tsmithe> joejaxx-uds: rargh
<TheMuso> So if theres no power, why is there net?
<crimsun> IP over PONY.
<shawarma> Theere's no power?
<Amaranth> the power for the VoIP went out
<TheMuso> ah
<shawarma> Crack.
<Amaranth> but i think the VoIP in the firefox room is working
<Amaranth> Salon America?
<Fujitsu> Apparently they overloaded the power, and it took out the router and a number of rooms.
<TheMuso> ah
<tsmithe> crimsun: :P
<TheMuso> grrrr!
<TheMuso> Going to miss the entire session of what I wanted to be involved in.
* tsmithe too :'(
<crimsun> what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
<crimsun> and a tad more cynical.
<Amaranth> battery dead, need to switch
<Amaranth> brb
<TheMuso> True.
<Hobbsee> ooh, power!
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: router was in a slightly different place, i think
<Hobbsee> there are lots of people plugging in, so yes, it would overload
<TheMuso> Well, thats all I want to check out for today.
<Hobbsee> what was it?
<crimsun> the Ubuntu Studio spec.
<Hobbsee> ahhh
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Hobbsee] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe/Multiverse Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | Gutsy open for uploading | Let's merge! http://adrishost.homeip.net/DaD/merges/ | Want to join MOTU? Try helping out on these: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+mentoring | Ubuntu Development Summit
<TheMuso> Enjoy lunch.
<Hobbsee> will do :)
<ivoks> i whish for gtk browser based on khtml :/
<shawarma> 4
<persia> TheMuso: Could I convince you to ACK 32460?  It would help ubuntustudio install on amd64 :)
<shawarma> Yeah, that'll work. :(
<TheMuso> persia: Is that on revu?
<persia> TheMuso: Sorry.  Bug #32460 (it's kinda old...)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 32460 in supercollider "Please remove stale AMD64 supercollider binaries." [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/32460
<TheMuso> persia: Ok looking at it.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.  Let me know if you have questions.
<Hobbsee> persia: cant remove that only from feisty
<TheMuso> persia: What is there to ack?
<persia> TheMuso: I'm not ubuntu-dev.  The bug needs an ACK before archive-admins is subscribed, or they will reject it.
<persia> Hobbsee: I'd be happy if it was only removed from gutsy, although I wanted it removed for Breezy :)
<Hobbsee> persia: heh
<Hobbsee> persia: that's not actually the correct way to fix it, though
<Hobbsee> you should put it to build on everything but amd64
<Hobbsee> in the control file
<Hobbsee> iirc
<crimsun> last I checked, binary-only removals were impossible.
* Hobbsee --> lunch
<Hobbsee> that too
<persia> Hobbsee: That's been the case since Warty.  This is just a stale binary that is annoying.
<Hobbsee> ahh
<TheMuso> persia: I am still confusd.
<TheMuso> confused
<persia> crimsun: Even for archive admins?  Alas, this bug will not close soon :(
<TheMuso> Can someone at uds please track down joejaxx and lend him another card?
<TheMuso> :)
<persia> TheMuso: Long, Long ago, supercollider compiled on amd64.  This was imported into Warty.  The import into Hoary included the fix Hobbsee mentioned, but the binary has never been deleted.
<TheMuso> persia: Sorry, I still am not sure exactly what the problem is here.
<persia> TheMuso: An old version of a binary package needs to be deleted, specifically supercollider_040926-2_amd64.deb.
<TheMuso> persia: I am not sure if it can be done for a new release, so don't want to go ther.
<TheMuso> there
<persia> TheMuso: No worries.  As indicated above, it's not currently possible.  When it becomes possible, I'll track down the procedure, and try to close the bug.
<Fujitsu> Hm... Oh dear.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: ?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Looks like the conference has dropped out again.
<TheMuso> oh crap
<\sh> is voip working now? or should I wait for tomorrow to join? 
<Fujitsu> \sh: Power seems to be on and off.
<\sh> Fujitsu, I think teamspeak is much better ,-)
<\sh> or just irc session
<Fujitsu> That doesn't fix power failures, as far as I know.
<\sh> well...
<TheMuso> heh
<\sh> doing some more merges
<\sh> before someone says, I'm just sitting around and not doing anything
* lionel is now flying to Sevilla
<lionel> see you:)
<pochu> hey slomo! re: bug 112384 :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112384 in liferea "Liferea doesn't work anymore due to the latest firefox upload (2.0.0.3+3-0ubuntu1)" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112384
<slomo> hi pochu 
<slomo> pochu: just a rebuild? it's uploaded in a few seconds ;)
<pochu> slomo: with a new build-dependency (it ftbfs without it, due to a firefox change) :)
<slomo> yes
<pochu> cool, thanks a lot! :-)
<slomo> pochu: what about merging with debian/experimental in the next days? :)
<slomo> uploaded btw
<zorglu_> q. if i put my package in the multiverse repository, and it pass the revue, any new version has to go the revue again ?
<jekil> hello
<pochu> slomo: sure!
<pochu> they have 1.2.7? :)
<ScottK> RAOF: It was me looking for 64 bit, but I got my problem solved already.  Thanks for asking though.
<pochu> slomo: I'm new with merges :) what should I do if we have 1.2.13 and they have 1.2.7?
<pochu> !merges
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about merges - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<RAOF> ScottK: Are you likely to want 64bit access again?
<pochu> !merge
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about merge - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<pochu> !syncs
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about syncs - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<pochu> :/
<RAOF> ScottK: I'm quite happy to set you up with an account anyway.
<ScottK> RAOF: I don't know.  The problem I had turned out to be caused more by my ignorance than lack of a machine, but OK.
* ScottK is just here for a minute right now.  We can discuss details later.
* RAOF would like to promote 64bit safety :)
<ScottK> Sounds good.
<persia> slomo: Could I ask for an ACK for bug #112506?  I'd rather Debian's patch than mine :)
<RAOF> I'll just scrape your SSH key from your launchpad account?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112506 in docbook "Please sync docbook 4.5-3 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112506
<ScottK> RAOF: I don't think I have one there.
<ScottK> If I do, it's almost certainly not right.
<RAOF> :(
<ScottK> Lemme get back to you on that.  I gotta run at the moment.
<RAOF> Put one up sometime, or email me (chalserogers@gmail.com).
<RAOF> Cool, catch you later.
<zorglu_> q. where can i find doc on the revue process ?
<cyberix> Is there a script, process or team that will finally move https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates into Launchpad?
<slomo> persia: done
<persia> slomo: Thanks.
<slomo> persia: np :)
<zorglu_> ok my questions dont attract much attention, i will retry later :)
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Heya! Was the lunch food ok?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yep.  i got scheduled for two critical thinsg at once though :(
<TheMuso> fun
<TheMuso> Night folks. Early night here.
<Fujitsu> Night TheMuso.
<Hobbsee> night TheMuso 
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Have fun.
<RAOF> Night TheMuso.
<Hobbsee> will do
<persia> ScottK: Would you have time to look at gaphor
<afflux> service-discovery-applet can be synced (bug #112826)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112826 in service-discovery-applet "Please sync service-discovery-applet 0.4.4-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112826
<geser> afflux: ACKed
<afflux> alright... since this is my first sync request: what to do now? Some sponsor will upload it? 
<afflux> *will some sponsor...
<StevenK> afflux: No, the archive admins will process it.
<afflux> alright. thank you :)
<persia> afflux: Subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors, and set to Unconfirmed.
<persia> afflux: Ignore me.  I failed to see previous comments.
<afflux> okay
<afflux> ah, fast-user-switch-applet can be synced too (bug #112636)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112636 in fast-user-switch-applet "sync fast-user-switch-applet 2.18.0-1 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112636
<ScottK> persia: I saw the bug you duped.
<ScottK> On gaphor
<ScottK> What did you want me to look at?
<persia> ScottK: It's a bug I've been watching for a while, but haven't gotten around to fixing.  I think I have a working 0.9.2 for gutsy, but *.pyc matches my username.  I saw your offer to mentor, and thought that the package would benefit from someone who actually knew python.
<persia> ScottK: What's the best way to get you the package?  I don't really want to attach it to the bug, as there are a fair number of subscribers, some of whom may try it (and I'm really not certain about it yet).
<ScottK> Why don't you e-mail me the debdiff.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.
<ScottK> persia: Are you fixing the current package or packaging the new ones?
<persia> ScottK: Using a new upstream.  The dependencies on the now very obsolete Canvas properties look to require significant code changes.
<ScottK> OK.  Then maybe just upload it to REVU?
<ScottK> persia: I've got to run.  We can discuss later.
<persia> ScottK: There's still some packaging to do, but I'd like a second opinion on the python bits.  Catch me anytime later.
<ScottK> Even if it's not ready, REVU if fine, just put in a comment that it's a draft, not ready for uploading.
<Hobbsee> revu.  shudder.
<persia> Hobbsee: What do you have against REVU?
<Hobbsee> persia: how many packages are on there
<Hobbsee> persia: and how low quality teh packages often are
* Hobbsee keeps talking in the BOF.
<\sh> Hobbsee, we have to find out what are the good and the bad packages :)
* Yagisan thinks his packages are high quality - but thats just me "P
<persia> REVU is a junkyard.  It's a good place to put certain kinds of things, and sometimes when one looks, there are valuables.
<persia> geser: Thanks, but the ogdi-dfsg FTBFS (bug #112618) has to be uploaded before gdal can sync.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112618 in ogdi-dfsg "ogdi-dfsg FTBFS in gutsy" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112618
<Hobbsee> \sh: 
<Hobbsee> \sh: true that
<StevenK> \sh: I could be nasty and say s/\(package\)s/\1rs/ , but I won't.
* StevenK goes to bed.
<fargiolas> does some know where could i find a ssl enabled gftp package?
<fargiolas> Seveas: i've found your build but it's for edgy, will it work with feisty?
<Seveas> fargiolas, no idea, I'll recompile it
<fargiolas> tnx :P
<geser> persia: I'm on it
<\sh> StevenK, that's not nice ;) because packagers can learn how to do it right ;)
<persia> geser: Thanks.
<Seveas> fargiolas, actually, there's a feisty build already in my repo :)
<fargiolas> Seveas: maybe i've been too quick asking here ;P
<\sh> Adri2000, ping...libglpng is not merged correctly....please have a look thx :)
<geser> persia: uploaded
<persia> geser: Thanks a lot.  Now I'm just waiting for python-support to sync thuban :)
<Adri2000> \sh: it's a snapshot.debian.net problem. http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/pool/libg/libglpng/source/Sources.gz says version 1.45-3 (the base version) is available at http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2004/01/30/debian/pool/main/libg/libglpng, but 404
<\sh> Adri2000, ah 
<afflux> debian changelog from "conquest"-package says "orphan package"... what does this mean?
<persia> afflux: It means that the Debian maintainer will no longer maintain the Debian package.  As a result, there may be fewer updates in the future.
<\sh> afflux, that it doesn't have an active package maintainer anymore
<afflux> okay... does this affect merging on our side?
<persia> afflux: Not really.  Just include the Debian changelog as usual.
<afflux> okay
<\sh> oh god, I'm tired...
<\sh> I need to have a walk
<DarkSun88> Hi
<pochu> hi DarkSun88 
<DarkSun88> pochu: Hi :)
<soc> does someone know where to get "gnome-build-1.0"?
<soc> because i want to use anjuta 2 which needs it
<highvoltage> omg. there's a merging tutorial in the packaging guide!
<Hobbsee> soc: found anything promising in apt-cache search?
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: yes, there is... :)
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: from the motu school, iirc.
<soc> no
<soc> it's almost impossible o build it on feisty
<soc> because it needs gdl >= 0.73 or something
<soc> i don't find gnome-build
<soc> debian hasn't it to
<soc> ^too
<\sh> soc: most propably you are on your own...building anjuta2 because it's not marked stable and it's really nasty to build
<soc> damn ..
<\sh> soc: read the build instrcution on the anjuta webpage...and have fun getting all the dependencies build :)
<\sh> gnome-build is just a tool from gnome for building the source tar balls I think
* \sh stops now for the merge run and has a shower and a walk 
<soc> problem is, i can't use checkinstall at the moment, and building so much things outside apt is quite a mess
<\sh> soc, hint: chroot and building everything..it takes time 
<soc> checkinstall builds packages with /usr/bin/ld, /usr/bin/strip and /usr/bin/gcc that CAN'T be normal
<\sh> checkinstall is evil...
<marseillai_> hi
<\sh> so build it with ./configure make make install in a chroot...man debootstrap
<soc> yes i know ...
<soc> but before feisty it worked atleast
* \sh 's gone...
<marseillai_> is there someone to look at my smplayer package? i try to do it with cdbs but it doesn't work
<Hobbsee> hi marseillai_ 
<Hobbsee> got the build log or something?
<marseillai_> hi Hobbsee 
<marseillai_> Hobbsee: of course i paste it
<marseillai_> and i can put the source package on ftp if you want
<Hobbsee> pastebin
<Hobbsee> put it on revu or something.  that works too
<Hobbsee> (that == ftp)
<Hobbsee> someone can help, even if i cant
<marseillai_> Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19456/
<Hobbsee> (note to marseillai_:  do that first, before asking the question :P )
<dabaR> Hi. I see bug #112850 is assigned to gnome-panel. I expect it should be assigned to desktop-effects. Can I get someone to confirm that?
<Hobbsee> marseillai_: tried with debhelper?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112850 in gnome-panel "cube effect does not work " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112850
<dabaR> sorry nm
<marseillai_> Hobbsee: yes it works with debhelper
<marseillai_> but i would like to improve my skills with cdbs
<Hobbsee> marseillai_: then i'd suggest you use debhelper
<Hobbsee> some things just seem to break with cdbs
<afflux> linda and lintian complain about my package merged from debian... I checked the original debian package and linda has the same complaints. How to go on? Ignore it and put the debdiff to launchpad?
<Hobbsee> marseillai_: there are lots of other packages, i wouldnt worry :)
<Hobbsee> afflux: depends what the errors are...
<marseillai_> Hobbsee: CDBS break on this package or generally ?
<Hobbsee> soc: then you'll need to compile it, etc
<Hobbsee> marseillai_: on this package.  same on asciiquarium
<marseillai_> oki
<Hobbsee> i've not seen it break on anything else, though
<marseillai_> so come back to debhelper
<Hobbsee> yeah :)
<afflux> Hobbsee: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/19457/
<afflux> Hobbsee: to line 27 are the errors for the native debian package, from 27 onwards are the errors from the merged one
<DarkSun88> bug #110779
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110779 in kile "Please merge kile 1.9.3-2 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110779
<DarkSun88> What is the problem in this merge?
<afflux> DarkSun88: there is no problem... it got uploaded
<Hobbsee> afflux: i'd probably leave it, so there's less to merge
<afflux> Hobbsee: so ignore them?
<Hobbsee> afflux: i probably would
<soc> ok
<soc> got it
<afflux> okay :)
<Hobbsee> DarkSun88: means it's uploaded, bu tmay not have built yet.
<DarkSun88> Hobbsee: Right.
<soc> debian(gnome-build) = libgbf
<Hobbsee> DarkSun88: uh...did you test build?
<soc> quite logical ...
<Hobbsee> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kile/1:1.9.3-2ubuntu1
* Hobbsee recalled something screwy about kile
<soc> next time i gonna kill them if they rename packages without mentioning anywgere ,,,
<soc> grr
<DarkSun88> Hobbsee: No, i didn't. 
<afflux> DarkSun88: oh, sry.. didn't look at the build stuff. anyway, it can't apply the patch in debian/patches/07_remove_tips_cpp.diff
<Hobbsee> DarkSun88: should i ask why not?
* afflux goes for a cup of coffee
<DarkSun88> Hobbsee: Because I have Feisty Fawn and I can't use pbuilder for the build.
<Hobbsee> DarkSun88: why cant you use pbuilder?
<afflux> DarkSun88: you can.. check http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<DarkSun88> Hobbsee: I should to upload to Gutsy and to use the archive of Gutsy.
<afflux> DarkSun88: (see the "Multiple pbuilders" section)
<Hobbsee> DarkSun88: no, you should use a pbuilder or a clean chroot.
<DarkSun88> Ah, ok.
<DarkSun88> I didn't know it. :)
<xtknight> why are my kernel images coming out to be >200M when i'm on a release, non-developmental branch of Feisty?
<DarkSun88> So, the problem is debian/patches/07_remove_tips_cpp.diff?
<Hobbsee> dunno - havent tried, to be honest
<Hobbsee> i just know that kile has had trouble before in feisty, iirc
<marseillai_> Hobbsee: could you tell me if this is good : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19458/
<marseillai_> ??
<siretart> \sh_away: could you please have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WineGutsySpec and perhaps comment on it? do you agree to the conclusion?
<sacater> hey all, im going to stop contributions from tuesday to friday, due to SATS tests
<sacater> i will restart on friday afternoon
<Hobbsee> marseillai_: mmm, what?
<marseillai_> Hobbsee: forget it! i made a mistake
<Hobbsee> marseillai_: might be.  cant really tlel from there
<Hobbsee> ahh
<afflux> DarkSun88: ping
<DarkSun88> afflux: Pong.
<afflux> DarkSun88: saw my notes in your query?
<DarkSun88> afflux: No, there aren't
<afflux> huh? I'll quote them then
<afflux> DarkSun88: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/19467/
<DarkSun88> Ok, thank you :)
<afflux> seems like i wasn't identifed
<DarkSun88> afflux: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19471/
<DarkSun88> afflux: Can you check it?
<afflux> DarkSun88:  think this should work... can you send me your source-packages before you put it to launchpad again? fnord@pentabarf.de ;)
<DarkSun88> Ok
<DarkSun88> The debdiff or orig.tar.gz?
<afflux> is orig.tar.gz the one from debian?
<DarkSun88> One moment
<DarkSun88> kile_1.9.3.orig.tar.gz
<DarkSun88> This is version of Debian
<afflux> I'll get it then.. just send me the debdiff please
<DarkSun88> I'll send the debdiff now.
<DarkSun88> afflux: Sended
<afflux> received
<afflux> DarkSun88: oh, it seems like the change in the patch is not yet in the debdiff.. did you rebuild your sources? ;)
<afflux> DarkSun88: (dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot or debuild -S -sa)
<DarkSun88> Argh, right. Excuse me.
<afflux> DarkSun88: no problem, i'll just take the one from the pastebin
<persia> Would anyone with a powerpc be willing to send me the config.log from a failed jack-audio-connection-kit build?
<DarkSun88> afflux: I send you another debdiff.
<afflux> DarkSun88: okay
<DarkSun88> Done.
<afflux> DarkSun88: seems to build now
<afflux> (has not yet finished, but passed the part with the patches)
<DarkSun88> :)
<DarkSun88> afflux: It's gone?
<afflux> 2 seconds ago, yes ;)
<afflux> finished without problems in i386
<DarkSun88> Thank you afflux 
<DarkSun88> :)
<afflux> will check amd64 now, but I don't think that this will cause a problem
<afflux> you can upload the debdiff to launchpad
<DarkSun88> Yep.
<afflux> DarkSun88: no problems on amd64 either
<DarkSun88> Well. I just uploaded the debdiff in Launchpad.
<afflux> alright
<jdong> is it possible to use device-mapper to snapshot a non-LVM block device?
<pochu> if debian has 1.2.7-1 and ubuntu has 1.2.13-0ubuntu2, is it possible to make a merge?
<geser> what do you want merged?
<pochu> geser: liferea
<geser> Ubuntu has the more recent version
<pochu> geser: yes, but there are some changes in debian/ which aren't in Ubuntu
<geser> if Debian has useful changes, you need to extract them and apply on the Ubuntu version
<pochu> ok, thanks :)
<afflux> my gutsy pbuilder complains about not being able to satisfy the build-deb "python-support"... any ideas?
<Q-FUNK> goatse builder.  *shivers*
<pochu> afflux: have you updated it?
<afflux> yes
<pochu> then wait :)
<afflux> I can login and install it by hand O.o
<afflux> argh... found the problem :D
<afflux> debian/control requires python-support >= 0.6, we have 0.5.something
<nixternal_> hey, if I wanted to wget all of the debfiles from a remote dir, what flags do I use with wget to do it?
<geser> afflux: python-support needs a merge (and it is in main)
<geser> nixternal_: is there a .dsc files?
<nixternal_> actually, I am sorry, I ddin't mean .debs, I meant tarballs
<nixternal_> sorry
<pochu> nixternal_: doesn't it work with *.tar.gz?
<nixternal_> wget url/*.tag.gz errors out
<superm1> Hey any MOTUs around feeling up for a REVU?
<jekil> hello
<Lutin> is there a way to discard the dch warning when using -D gutsy under feisty ?
<Kmos> Lutin: i don't think so.. if it add gutsy to the debian/changelog, then it's ok
<Lutin> Kmos: not really ok, talking about scriptability. I mean, press 'enter' is not really what I call scriptable
<Lutin> anyways, I'll just patch it
<ScottK> geser: Are you available to review merges or bug fix uploads?
<ScottK> If you are (anyone else welcome too), it'd be nice to get Bug #108612 uploaded.  It's his first upload...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108612 in pythoncad "[apport]  pythoncad crashed with ExpatError in parse()" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108612
<ScottK> Oops, wrong bug #
<ScottK> Sorry, Bug #112140
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112140 in pythoncad "pythoncad fails to exit when all windows are closed" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112140
<geser> ScottK: not at the moment
<geser> but try to review it when I'm back home
<geser> the patch looks ok
<Daviey> hey, can anybody point me in the direction of a 'copyright' file for a BSD style licence?
<Daviey> should i keep "Copyright (c) The Regents of the University of California."?
<geser> have you looked at /usr/share/common-licenses/BSD?
<Daviey> yeah
<Daviey> but should i keep the copyright of California?
<Daviey> is that copyright refering to their licence of the package?
<geser> I don't know
<Daviey> thanks anyway
<geser> have you checked some other BSD-licenced projects?
<geser> http://code.djangoproject.com/browser/django/trunk/LICENSE sets the copyright to themself
<geser> which makes sense
<Daviey> geser, thanks!
<afflux> in case someone wants to ack a sync or upload a merge: bug 112836 is to be synced and bug 112867 to be merged
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112836 in nautilus-open-terminal "Please sync nautilus-open-terminal 0.8-1 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112836
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112867 in conquest "Please merge conquest 8.2a-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112867
<afflux> I'll go to bed now ;)
<ScottK> geser: Thanks for looking at the bug.
<ScottK> eolo999: geser has said he will review your bug fix for upload later today after he gets home.
<eolo999> perfect...hi ScottK 
<Lutin> hi there
<ScottK> persia: I took a quick look at your package.  Have you considered e-mailing the Debian maintainer and asking to take over the package in Debian?
<ScottK> It looks to me like he's lost interest.
<eolo999> ScottK, I'm moving to Venice tomorrow, i'll try to find a fast internet connection as soon as possible, but I may miss irc for some unspecified days
<ScottK> eolo999: Thanks for letting me know.  If geser has any problems with your fix, I'll take care of it then.
<ScottK> eolo999: Venice was an interesting place to visit.  I hope you enjor living there...
<eolo999> ScottK, It's just 6 months then back to Rome...
<Lutin> heya bashelier :
<eolo999> Don't have neither a house yet...
<ScottK> Ah.  Well Rome was interesting too, although (from an outsider's perspective) totally different.
<ScottK> An adventure then...
<Q-FUNK> venice... wow!
* Q-FUNK gets all dreamy
<ScottK> eolo999: One thing I will do for you, if I don't see you here, that we normally have to do is after the upload, monitor the new build and mark the bug fix-released after the new build is finished building.
<pochu> slomo: do you think it's a good idea to include the mozilla engine in the liferea package, instead of keep splitting it into liferea-mozilla? Since we're building one engine, it will make easier the installation
<slomo> pochu: do what debian does, i.e. one package
<pochu> slomo: ok, I've included the debian important changes, and have a debdiff ready :)
<pochu> slomo: could you review it?
<slomo> cool :)
<slomo> sure
<eolo999> ScottK, I don't really know when i'll fix everything in Venice, thanks for your offer.
<ScottK> No problem.  I'll keep an eye on it.
<pochu> slomo: there's no bug which the debdiff fixes, do you want me to mail it to you?
<eolo999> hope to be back soon with you all MOTUs and thanks for your guide...
<slomo> pochu: sure
<pochu> ok :)
<pochu> slomo: do you think I can remove the liferea-mozilla and liferea-gtkhtml packages if I make liferea replace them, and conflict with them?
<pochu> (and whether it's a good idea)
<Daviey> Hi, what does "changelog-file-missing-in-native-package" mean?  Should the changelog be in the tar aswell?
<minghua> Daviey: do you know what is a native package?
<Daviey> minghua, native to the arch?
<minghua> no
<Daviey> care to explain?
<minghua> trying to find a document, just a second
<Daviey> ta
<minghua> Daviey: actually, you can try lintian -I first, and see what it says
<Daviey> native to packaging system? ie deb?
<minghua> Daviey: http://people.debian.org/~mpalmer/debian-mentors_FAQ.html
<minghua> Daviey: search for "What is the difference between a native Debian package and a non-native package?"
<man-di> Daviey: native means the package is special to ubuntu (and/or Debian) and has not much use outside
<Daviey> hmm
<pochu> slomo: there's a new 1.2.14 release. I've packaged it, with the same changes I mailed you, and it works fine. It's in http://emilio.pozuelo.org/deb/ in case you can take it a look :)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-28
<coppro> okay, I need some assitance
<coppro> how do I make dpkg-buildpackage find my .orig.gz file
<coppro> I can't get it to generate a diff.gz no matter how hard I try
<azeem> the .orig.gz has to be in the parent directory from where you're running dpkg-buildpackage from
<azeem> well, orig.tar.g
<azeem> z
<coppro> right
<coppro> but I still don't get a diff.gz generated
<coppro> do I need the -1 prefix on the version?
<coppro> also, how do I specify lintian overrides for the binary package correctly
<coppro> like, what is the preferred file to put them in and what should I add to debian/rules?
<cody-somerville> coppro, Yes otherwise it thinks you're building a native package.
<cody-somerville> coppro, and what lintian overrides do you think your package qualifies for?
<coppro> the source package includes lost of .DS_Store and ._whatever files
<coppro> and lintian says that in a case like this, it's better to override then attempt to modify the whole source tree
<coppro> still no diff.gz :(
<azeem> what's your .dsc called, and what did you name the orig.tar.gz?
<coppro> wait, I think I made a mistake
<coppro> one more try
<coppro> okay, so I'm not seeing it still
<coppro> and I'm pretty sure I've got it right
<coppro> here's my ls of the root directory after running a build
<coppro> golly-1.3        golly_1.3-1_i386.changes  golly_1.3-1.orig.tar.gz
<coppro> golly_1.3-1.dsc  golly_1.3-1_i386.deb      golly_1.3-1.tar.gz
<coppro> aside from the fact that the directory has the wrong name
<cody-somerville> What are you typing to build the source package?
<coppro> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<cody-somerville> try: debuild -S -sa
<crimsun> the directory seems to be named correctly if the upstream version is 1.3 (not that the name of the directory matters all that much)
<ajmitch> golly_1.3-1.orig.tar.gz should be golly_1.3.orig.tar.gz
<coppro> ok
<coppro> thought I'd tried that already
<cody-somerville> You need the -1 in your changelog
<coppro> how do I install a symlink?
<coppro> specifically, for a manpage
<coppro> I get an error about that
<cody-somerville> Don't you want to get your source package to build first? :P
<coppro> yes
<cody-somerville> Oh, it won't build the source package because of an error aobut a symlink?
<cody-somerville> Why not show us the error?
<coppro> yeah
<coppro> something about irrepresentable changes
<coppro> so I deleted the symlink
<coppro> and I need to figure out how to specify it otherwise
<coppro> I get a failure because it attempts to sign my files without knowing the comment I used on the key ID
<coppro> as well
<cody-somerville> Does your name and e-mail match what you have on your key?
<coppro> yes
<coppro> not the comment though
<cody-somerville> Okay, so change your changelog or specify the key id manually.
<coppro> ok, done
 * cody-somerville goes for a shower.
<RAOF> crimsun: You would be correct, sadly.  Our plugins package doesn't build the banshee plugin on the basis that it does bad things to Banshee's database (it can accidentally lock Banshee out of its own db, for example).
<slomo> RAOF: what banshee plugin?
<crimsun> RAOF: thanks for the clarification
<RAOF> slomo: There is a banshee (0.13.x) plugin in the do-plugins source tarball.  It just reads banshee's DB directly, and as such tends to lock Banshee out.
<slomo> RAOF: ah, that's bad ;)
<RAOF> Someone (it may even be me) will write a banshee 1.x plugin soon using the new DBUS hotness.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<coppro> okay, so how do I put manpages for two programs symlinked to eachother? Simply symlinking in the debian folder gives me an error about an unrepresentable change.
<ScottK> coppro: Probably you want dh_link
<coppro> that would do it
<coppro> do I just dh_link /usr/man/man1/prog.1 /usr/man/man1/other.1, or should I use some other method
<ScottK> That seems generally correct.  See man dh_link to see that you got it right.
<nxvl> ScottK: what's supposed to be done at this point of the release circle?
<ScottK> nxvl: SRUs for Hardy and be thinking about specs for UDS.
<nxvl> ScottK: :D
<ScottK> nxvl: Also new package review on REVU can start, although, of course, nothing can be uploaded just now.
<nxvl> ScottK: did you know when would be open the new repos? or where are it going to be announced?
<TheMuso> When its open. The mailing list is up, but nothing yet.
<ScottK> Usually it's two or three weeks after the release.
<TheMuso> I'd say in the next two or so days, those who are responsible for it are not yet into their working week.
<coppro> I heard it said about May 7 or 8 earlier
<nxvl> that reminds me i need to package some packages
<ScottK> It's done when it's done.
<TheMuso> The first thing that has to happen though is the toolchain bits, anthing they want to change/update has to be done now.
<ScottK> A lot of the when depends on a number of variables about how well things go.  If it's up and in place, they wan't hold back because it's not time yet.
<coppro> wait... why isn't linda in hardy?
<jdong> linda was removed
<jdong> Debian decision
<TheMuso> jdong: Thats weird. Surely StevenK would have campaigned against that.
<coppro> ah, then you should probably take out all the packages that refer to it
<soto> What dictates the suffix in shared object libraries? lib.so.6 versus lib.so.7, how do I change it?
<TheMuso> soto: Are you an usptream developer of the software in question?
<TheMuso> upstream even
<soto> TheMuso: No, it's local
<TheMuso> Its local?
<soto> TheMuso: I have custom patches that I apply
<TheMuso> soto: Right, unless those patches change the ABI/API of the library in question, the soname, i.e the number you mentioned does not need changing.
<soto> Trying to build but the binaries are looking for the wrong library name
<TheMuso> soto: And if they do, you will have to rebuild/modify all packages that build against that library.
<soto> TheMuso: Yes, that's fine. How do I change it?
<TheMuso> soto: I'm guessing you want to change it for the binaries that are building against it correct?
<TheMuso> Building binaries against it should not matter, as long as you have a liblibrary.so symbolically linked to liblibraryname.so.number
<TheMuso> soto: I suggest you find a guide about shared libraries, how they work etc.
<soto> TheMuso: Okay, do you by any chance, know what specifically needs to be done. I think I'm just building it wrong.
<TheMuso> soto: Without knowing what package, and how the package is built, I can't really say.
<soto> The process varies between libraries?
<coppro> ok, time for another stupid question
<TheMuso> I don't know. Does it?
<coppro> I have a manpage I wrote. How do I best compress it
<coppro> I don't want to leave a compressed file in the source package, because it's a pain to edit
<TheMuso> coppro: The manpages get compressed at package build time.
<coppro> is there a rule for compression?
<soto> Well seeing as how my inquiry pertained to how the naming was produced, I wouldn't know.
<coppro> or should I just run gzip
<TheMuso> coppro: If dh_compress is called in debian/rules, then the manpages will be compressed.
<coppro> thanks
<TheMuso> soto: What packages are you trying to modify, and are the patches you are using available anywhere for examination?
<soto> TheMuso: Never mind, it's working now. Thanks.
<TheMuso> soto: No problem.
<coppro> where can I find a defined list of the doc-base sections? Lintian keeps complaining
<coppro> and do I need to do anything about the new-package-should-close-itp-bug
<ScottK> If you're packaging for Debian you should file an ITP bug and close it in the initial debian/changelog entry.  Otherwise, you can ignore it.
<coppro> okeydokey
<coppro> now why won't my manpage work
<coppro> no matter what I do, lintian complains about something :(
<coppro> and it's probably right
<ScottK> If you run out of warnings, you can always run it with the -I flag.
<coppro> no, that's not my problem
<coppro> I get W: golly: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/golly
<coppro> for some reason
<coppro> any help to offer?
<StevenK> TheMuso: It was my choice to have Linda removed.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Oh ok.
<lifeless> StevenK: linda died?
<StevenK> I decided I didn't have that much drive to fix her any more.
<coppro> can anyone help me install a manpage in my package? Give me step-by-step instructions, please. I've done it wrong every time so far.
<coppro> I have a manpage written up already
<TheMuso> coppro: Read the dh_installman manpage.
<coppro> I have
<coppro> multiple times
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hello dholbach
<kahrytan> bug #223486
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 223486 in ubuntu "X Crashes on Logout Applet activation." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223486
<\sh> moins
<emgent> heya \sh :)
<\sh> moins emgent...
<mrpouet> hi
<cody-somerville> Hi mrpouet
<mrpouet> cody-somerville, hi
<mrpouet> i would like to help you, to pack new package in universe and multiverse branch, (i 've good knowledge in debian packagement with cdbs), where can i found request for new packages ?
<mrpouet> all of new packages are "confirmed" ;)
<cody-somerville> Confirmed, I believe, just means that it has been acknowledged - not that it has been packaged yet.
<mrpouet> cody-somerville, oh, so good , i need to help other community contributor, oki i'll do that
<rootbridge> hi all
<rootbridge> I'm a Debian Developer and have been reviewing the ubuntu changes to my packages. I think that in a number of cases the Debian version should be synced (all Ubuntu changes were incorporated one way or another)
<rootbridge> is this the right place to come?
<tseliot> rootbridge: have you filed a bugreport about it?
<laga> rootbridge: yes, that's the right place i guess :). to make your.. yeah, what tseliot said.
<rootbridge> I didn't, anything special or just a bug report?
<tseliot> rootbridge: I think that a bug report against your package in Ubuntu would be enough
<rootbridge> great, I'll file those then
<james_w> rootbridge: can I ask what the packages are?
<rootbridge> james_w: apt-file phpmyadmin mailman mailping php-net-smtp
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> rootbridge: if they have been incorporated then the next time they are merged it should be turned in to a sync.
<james_w> if the way it was incorporated is different or non-obvious then a bug report might help.
<james_w> if you think the changes are wrong then that's obviously different.
<rootbridge> james_w, ok. I've now filed the bug reports already
<james_w> rootbridge: cool, thanks.
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<iulian> Hey sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi iulian
 * siretart highfives sistpoty|work!
<sistpoty|work> hi siretart
<cbx33> hey guys
<cbx33> I have someone building a set of packages for ubuntu
<cbx33> they want a single binary file which uses two tar.gz files
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33>  a single source file I should say
<cbx33> this isn't really the done thing is it
<cbx33> we'd create two pacakges and make one depend on the other
<cbx33> right?
<sistpoty|work> cbx33: I'm not too sure if I understand the scenario correctly...
<cbx33> ok
<james_w> cbx33: you can create a source package made of two .tar.gz. It's not pretty, but it is possible.
<cbx33> james_w: really
<cbx33> I may suggest to them that they put everything into one tar gz file
<cbx33> that may work right?
<james_w> rootbridge: thanks. I've subscribed the sponsors, so the syncs should happen once they have approved and the archive un-freezes.
<james_w> cbx33: that would work. You can also tar the two files up inside another tar.gz, and then unpack them as part of the build.
<cbx33> ahh yes
<james_w> cbx33: as I said, it's not pretty, but it is possible.
<cbx33> yes
<soren> cbx33: It's not unheard of to have the orig.tar.gz simply contain the two tarballs. Not unpacked, but the tarballs themselves.
 * ScottK plugs his ears to avoid hearing more of it.
<soren> ScottK: glibc does it, for instance. evolution used to do it (AFAIR).
<mok0> soren: does that mean you could tar up the debian/ dir in a tarball :-)
<mok0> james_w: ^
<mok0> Is the SRU team == MOTU release?
<DktrKranz2> mok0: motu-sru
<mok0> DktrKranz2: ok thx
<DktrKranz2> and != from motu release
<mok0> DktrKranz2: Ah, so you are one of the guys to befriend... :-)
<DktrKranz2> heh
<DktrKranz2> I'm mostly offline, though
<DktrKranz2> my ISP decided to cut off my DSL without notice
<mok0> DktrKranz2: Are you doing bad things to their net?
<DktrKranz2> probably they use fedora :)
<mok0> DktrKranz2: heh
<DktrKranz2> and didn't want ubuntu stuff on their wire
<mok0> wicked
<DktrKranz2> so I use office connection, but I haven't any development tool here :(
<mok0> DktrKranz2: ydrrrk
<Creationist> Will there EVER be an advanced installer for Ubuntu that offers us the option on which packages to install?
<RAOF> Creationist: Probably not.
<jsgotangco> synaptic not works for you?
<jsgotangco> ohh sorry
<jsgotangco> :)
<RAOF> I'm not sure I'll stake out 'never', though.  That's a long time :)
<jsgotangco> my bad
<james_w> what about the alternate installer in expert mode?
<Creationist> RAOF: Do you know why?  I understand the need for simplicity for most new users, but it would certainly be nice for more advanced users to be able to quickly install a system tailored to our specs without having to make so many extra steps after the installation, you know?
<Creationist> james_w: Yeah, that's what I would have thought would offer the options... but it isn't there.
<james_w> There's "Select and install software" or something similar isn't there?
<Creationist> james_w: Hmm... not that I saw.
<Creationist> And according to RAOF, it doesn't exist yet, if ever.
<\sh> Creationist, why not FAI ? or Kickstart? it will do what you want
<Creationist> \sh: Not during installation, though.
<\sh> Creationist, it helps you to install exactly what you want...and you don't need any cds anymore :)
<Creationist> \sh: Hmm... maybe I don't know what it is lol
<Creationist> I'll look it up.
<\sh> Creationist, automatic installation methods
<jsgotangco> yeah kickstart should work
<jsgotangco> but i think he's looking something like what anaconda can do in d-i
<\sh> anaconda is for hardware recognition, afaik
<jsgotangco> i think that's kudzu
<\sh> oh yes
<\sh> anaconda, kudzu..all those redhat relicts
<jsgotangco> :D
<\sh> jsgotangco, but there is almost always the idea of preseeding the alternate installer
<jsgotangco> yes preseeding should work
<ogra> apt-get install system-config-kickstart
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> create preseed files for d-i wiht a gui
<Creationist> Isn't there a DVD version of Ubuntu available somewhere?  I can't find it anywhere.
<mok0> DktrKranz2: How do I get a SRU, file a bug?
<Hobbsee> !dvd
<ubotu> For playing DVD, see http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/video.html - "libdvdcss2" can be found at !Medibuntu or (for Feisty and earlier) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeveasPackages - Try k9copy (available in !Universe) for backing up DVDs
<Hobbsee> bah
<DktrKranz2> mok0: if it's already open, you can reuse it
<mok0> DktrKranz2: It's not.
<DktrKranz2> keep in mind if it needs fixing for intrepid, consensus was to indicate how to address it once archives are open
<DktrKranz2> so, feel free to open a new one
<mok0> DktrKranz2: sure
<DktrKranz2> subscribe motu-sru, provide a good test case and wait for an ACK
<mok0> DktrKranz2: ... and then I just upload it?
<mok0> DktrKranz2: (sorry for the stupid questions, but I am not familiar with the procedure!)
<DktrKranz2> mok0: once a ACK has been granted, you can proceed with upload to $distro-proposed
<mok0> DktrKranz2: Ah, so I need to put that in changelog
<DktrKranz2> yes, used dch -D $distro-proposed
<DktrKranz2> no $distro or $distro-updates
<mok0> DktrKranz2: got it
<DktrKranz2> be sure to include LP bug reference
<DktrKranz2> or you will get a reject :)
<DktrKranz2> mok0: is bug 223649 the one you were referring before?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 223649 in torque "torque-server init script fails during installation and removal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223649
<sebner> persia: for the new hacker group. Are testimonials a requirement or just a bonus point?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
<Kopfgeldjaeger> could someone have a quick look at (there arent many changes to look at) my package for gtkhash? builds fine with hardy-ppa. i would like to see it in intrepid! http://nicolaispohrer.dyndns.org/packaging/
<persia> sebner: A requirement.  Someone needs to be a sponsor for someone to be sponsored.
<sebner> persia: kk. thx
<mrpouet> re, filezilla-3.0.9.2 (new release is out )doesn't exist in hardy-proposed ? i didn't find it...
<mok0> DktrKranz2: bug 223649
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 223649 in torque "torque-server init script fails during installation and removal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223649
<DktrKranz2> mok0: I looked a bit at the debdiff, it ships several hypen fixes, they are minor issues not really SRU-worthy (even if barrier has been lowered recently). Also, changelog entry lacks LP: #223649 and target must be hardy-proposed
<mok0> DktrKranz2: The hyphen fixes were asked for by persia when he uploaded the package just before new freeze
<ScottK> mok0: Since we are post release, SRU changes should be the minimal fix to deal with the exact SRU worthy problem.
<ScottK> mok0: Due the cleanups in Intrepid
<ScottK> Due/Do
<mok0> OK
<persia> Which hyphen fixes?  (I've lost context).
<DktrKranz2> Exactly, we can bring in -updates low impact bug fixes, but cosmetic changes are usually ignored
<mok0> persia: ah, when you uploaded the torque package for me a few months ago, you made me promise that I would fix a number of hyphen/minus issues in the manpages
<ScottK> Man page formatting changes should definitely just be done in Intrepid.
<persia> mok0: Ah.  Right.  Yes.  As indicated above, those are things that ought be done in a dev release, as they aren't SRU-worthy.  Please do fix the hyphens for intrepid, and drop them from a hardy patch.
<mok0> persia: sure
<Kopfgeldjaeger> nobody here to look at my package?
<DktrKranz2> mok0: just include changes which affect package direcly (e.g. broken installation fix is definitely worth it)
<DktrKranz2> ah, version should be 0ubuntu1.1, to avoid potential conflicts with a future upload in intrepid
<mok0> DktrKranz2: I will upload another debdiff shortly
<DktrKranz2> great. ping me once ready :)
<ScottK> slangasek: Today is your archive admin day, right?
<mok0> DktrKranz2: Pinnnngggg....
<DktrKranz2> mok0: are these errors you receive? http://paste.ubuntu.com/8506/
<mok0> DktrKranz2: yes
<mok0> DktrKranz2: those dirs are now a part of the package
<DktrKranz2> ok, is linda change relly required'?
<mok0> DktrKranz2: no
<mok0> DktrKranz2: I can get rid of it
<DktrKranz2> yes, please
<mok0> will do
<mok0> DktrKranz2: ... and you'll have difficulty removing the package again
<DktrKranz2> without linda override?
<mok0> DktrKranz2: no, no
<mok0> the linda override is just cosmetics
<mok0> DktrKranz2: you installed the package on your machine, right? Try removing it
<DktrKranz2> mok0: I tried on a pbuilder, during apt-get phase I didn't receive any errors, but I guess I will on a real box
<mok0> DktrKranz2: yes you would
<DktrKranz2> I can't directly test it, but it sounds sane and you tested it
<mok0> DktrKranz2: you need to see the debdiff w/o the linda override?
<DktrKranz2> It's not required, if you will upload it without that
<mok0> DktrKranz2: I discovered it yesterday when I needed the package :-(
<DktrKranz2> but if you want to produce bugmail, I won't complain :P
<mok0> DktrKranz2: that's what I am trying to avoid...
<DktrKranz2> mok0: I'll ACK the bug asking to upload to hardy-proposed without linda override in. Just one second
<DktrKranz2> mok0: done. Go ahead and enjoy uploading in unapproved queue :)
<mok0> DktrKranz2: heh, thanks
<DktrKranz2> don't forget to add TEST CASE in bug description to speed up verification phase by sru-verfication :)
<mok0> DktrKranz2: you mean, how to test it?
<DktrKranz2> yes
<mok0> DktrKranz2: good point, I'll remember that next time
<DktrKranz2> how to reproduce and how to test if fix is good
<DktrKranz2> this one is trivial
<mok0> indeed
<DktrKranz2> but sometimes it's not
<mok0> DktrKranz2: I should have discovered it earlier...
 * mok0 kicks himself
<DktrKranz2> I remember a beautiful SRU with a long road to test if everything was good
<DktrKranz2> and TEST CASE saved my day
 * DktrKranz2 loved plr SRUs :P
<mok0> plr?
<DktrKranz2> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plr
 * mok0 tries to locate the SRU DktrKranz2 is talking about...
<mok0> Ah
<mok0> nice
<mok0> gotta run CU later...
<DktrKranz2> 1
<jpatrick> http://www.seqfault.de/files/hardy-thankyou.png \o/
<Kopfgeldjaeger> is there anything special to take care of when porting packages from debian?
<ScottK> As long as the package correctly specifies dependencies and versions, it should just be a rebuild.  If it builds/installs/ it's generally fine.
<DktrKranz2> jpatrick: awesome :)
<ScottK> It took a while to find it, but I'm in there, which is totally cool.
<jpatrick> ScottK: I think they got the names from the ubuntu-members team
<jpatrick> but yeah, it is cool
 * ScottK was guessing from hardy-changes.
<exodos_> hi there, whats the correct way to create /var/log/myproject directory is my deb package? should I use postins script or just include create this dir under debian/tmp ?
<persia> exodos_: Either create in postint, or check & create in init.d
<james_w> persia: /var/log isn't tmpfs is it?
<persia> james_w: Not by default, no.
<james_w> so shipping it in the package would be better, no?
<persia> On the other hand, if the user mistakenly deletes the entire directory when cleaning up log files, having the directory recreated is more robust than failing to write to the log (or failing to start).
<persia> I don't like to ship anything under /var in the package, if it can be avoided, but that's a personal opinion.  I think packages should be fine with /usr and /etc (with perhaps some limited exceptions for /bin or /lib).
<james_w> true, and moving everything to init scripts would make it easier to switch to tmpfs or similar for other things
<Kopfgeldjaeger> when will the hardy repos be opened?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> eeer intrepid
<ScottK> Never
<ScottK> Soonish.
<persia> Well, I can't imagine any use case where use tmpfs for /var/log would be correct, but maybe.
<ScottK> It's usually  1 - 3 weeks after the release
<Kopfgeldjaeger> k
<ScottK> Depends on how long it takes them to get the toolchain in place.  They'll be working on it now.
<jpatrick> Kopfgeldjaeger: it's open, just needs toolchain
<persia> Well, it's currently frozen (although it exists).
<ScottK> Interesting read: http://contentconsumer.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/is-ubuntu-useable-enough-for-my-girlfriend/
<Hobbsee> ScottK: no.  i'ts not.  girls can't use ubuntu, and don't exist on hte intarweb.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: OK.  The title and some of the underlying assumptions about gender are poor.
 * Hobbsee hasn't read it yet
<mbt> Hobbsee: Both of my girlfriends use Ubuntu... :)
<ScottK> Just mentally substitute my 73 year old father for girlfriend and it'll work out.  He wouldn't do as well as she did I don't think.
<ScottK> Although for a person of his age, he's pretty computer literate.
<persia> underlying assumption about gender?  I don't see anything that would prevent the article being "Is Ubuntu useable enough for my boyfreind?", except that one might s/Erin/Aaron/
<sistpoty|work> well, my gf knows ubuntu (or rather gnome) better than I do actually *g*
 * Hobbsee also has a non-technical friend working her way thru ubuntu, who does'nt appear to have problems.
<ScottK> Cool.
<\sh> ubuntu is linux for human beings...what is a non-technical friend then? ;)
<\sh> are technical people non humans?
<ScottK> The one in there that I think really ought to (and can) be managed much better is Firefox jumping to the Adobe web site to offer a Flash download.
<mbt> Well, us "mere mortals" have to be able to use something... :)
<ScottK> Surely we could manage to point that at one of the repository flash packages.
<persia> I'd argue that having applications be usefully aware of resolution and DPI is another reasonable target.
 * \sh can't use windows actually...really...I have problems with the installation in general
<persia> (especially the resolution control tool)
<sistpoty|work> \sh: you're not alone there ;)
<\sh> persia, did you read the thread on wine-devel ml about "wine and 400 DPI" ? ,-)
<persia> \sh: No, I don't follow wine.  Link?
<\sh> persia, moment...I just have it on my imap
<\sh> persia, http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2008-April/065213.html and following
<ScottK> YokoZar: I was wondering if you've looked at the wineconfig program included in kde-guidance and if you think it's a useful thing to have?
<persia> \sh: Looks like a repeat of the standard discussion.  Unfortunately, the current libraries tend to make assumptions about the physical size of a pixel, and so most developers end up with distances measured in pixels, which look really bad on alternate hardware.  For GNOME, the current decision is that all screens are 96DPI, regardless of the actual physical characteristics.
<persia> This is of course different from the resolution control tool not knowing that it only has 400 vertical pixels, and appropriately adjusting the interface.
<slangasek> ScottK: nominally yes, but I'm off today and moving house
<ScottK> slangasek: OK.  Good luck with the move then.
<slangasek> thanks, need it :)
<sistpoty|work> DktrKran12: what's the next step for SRUs, once it's uploaded to -proposed? Is there still a time limit when it may enter -updates (as StableReleaseUpdates on the wiki doesn't seem to contain one)
<jdong> sistpoty|work: 2-3 ACKs from unique users
<persia> I've seen the archive admins pull them after a few months.
<jdong> sistpoty|work: if that's not achieved within a reasonable amount of time, archive admins will pull the update
<sistpoty|work> jdong: ah, thanks... so does bug #208666 qualify to be ready for -updates yet? and if so, is it copied by archive admins or do I need to upload it to -updates?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 208666 in xmms-crossfade "audacious crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208666
<jdong> sistpoty|work: that looks like it's been ACKed adequately...
<sistpoty|work> (strange, but LP doesn't show me who set verification-done... or I'm blind again *g*)
<jdong> interesting
<jdong> sistpoty|work: yeah it's marked correctly
<jdong> the archive admins should copy it to -updates
<jdong> soon. ish.
<sistpoty|work> jdong: ok, thanks!
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Archive admins copy directly from -proposed to -updates now.  No need to re-upload.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: thanks, I've just asked on -devel :)
<DktrKran12> sistpoty|work: basically someone from sru-verification needs to check if fix is good (for universe/multiverse, it'susually me), but sometimes two/three "thumbs up" are enough for a-a to move to -updates
<DktrKran12> sistpoty|work: crossfade will be published to -updates after sevend days elapsed
<DktrKran12> minimum waiting period is preserved to avoid last-minute regressions
<sistpoty|work> DktrKran12: ah, so there still is a delay? maybe the wiki should be updated then?
<DktrKran12> I think there's already
<DktrKran12> at least, there was
<DktrKran12> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates?action=recall&rev=82 named "and passed a minimum aging period of 7 days", newer versions no longer name it...
<sistpoty|work> yeah... that's why I was asking
<DktrKran12> so, it's better asking. I usually leave packages in -proposed at least seven days before attempting to check them, perhaps recent SRU change turned off this requisite
<sistpoty|work> well, I don't mind for xmms-crossfade too much :)
<DktrKran12> probably people from that 32 dupes do :)
<sistpoty|work> heh... and there should really be no regression, since there are no code changes :)=
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hm. how to tell dch how my email address is?
<sistpoty|work> Kopfgeldjaeger: export DEBEMAIL (e.g. DEBEMAIL=Stefan Potyra <sistpoty@ubuntu.com>)
<DktrKran12> it's hard to break something fully broken already, sounds good :)
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: EXPORT DEBEMAIL="Appelation Surname <account@provider.tld>"
<Kopfgeldjaeger> thanks. already tried it, but without the name :)
<ScottK> Who in the world decided puiparts was a good first topic for open week?
<DktrKran12> ScottK: our desire to have at least one run for universe in Intrepid development cycle :)
<ScottK> Well I think having it first when the people in the chat channel are asking about stuff like "How do I make a .deb" wasn't such a great plan.  It's a rather advanced topic.
<RainCT> hi
<sistpoty|work> hi RainCT
<ScottK> Hello RainCT
<DktrKranz2> persia: we are trying to have some machines to run some QA tests, let's cross our fingers :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi RainCT
<persia> DktrKranz2: I've every confidence :)
<DktrKranz2> I haven't, but I really want to run them at least once
<DktrKranz2> both piuparts and AutoUpgradeTools (or equivalent)
<Amaranth> <asomething> ï»¿QUESTION: Will ï»¿piuparts be run against all uploads to REVU?
<Amaranth> Anyone know? :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hmpf. now i've made 3 packages (1 new, 2 from sid) and didnt need much time. i think it would be really cool to have them in intrepid :)
<DktrKranz2> Amaranth: piuparts requires binary packages, REVU only has sources, IIRC
<sistpoty|work> yep
<persia> REVU is unlikely to develop package building characteristics, unless lots more hardware is thrown at it.
<DktrKranz2> what about having debian-style binary uploads?
<sistpoty|work> persia: actually spooky should be fast enough to handle building, but there's a lack of revu devs rather ;
<sistpoty|work> +)
<Amaranth> I never thought that was a good idea
<Amaranth> Except maybe for bootstrapping a new arch
<Amaranth> binary uploads, i mean
<DktrKranz2> REVU won't become a build farm and some additional lintian checks will be showed
<persia> For REVU?  That's a possibility.  Of course, REVU runs on a Sparc, so to run piuparts, people would need to submit sparc binary uploads...
<\sh> Amaranth, bootstraping should be done by buildd admins even for revu
<persia> sistpoty|work: Does spooky have the disk space to run a buildd & associated infrastructure?
<\sh> persia, actually it would be possible if we would find sponsors for hardware and ip traffic
<persia> \sh: In that case, I'd rather see a REVU buildd than binary uploads.
<\sh> persia, we need a fundraiser...
<\sh> amd + a good colo housing company
<sistpoty|work> persia: it has 72Gb reserved for package uploads, and an 18 Gb root partition, so it cannot rebuild the archives in total
<Hobbsee> or just abuse ppa for the purpose
<persia> Hobbsee: PPA doesn't do sparc.
<\sh> and no hppa
<Hobbsee> oh, bah.
<\sh> well, having a hppa or sparc buildd wouldn't make sense, because most people don't have sparc hw or hppa hw at home
<\sh> so building a source doesn't mean it runs as expected
<StevenK> \sh: I have both
<\sh> StevenK, well, there are exceptions :)
 * StevenK grins
<Hobbsee> StevenK: are you normal?  :)
<persia> \sh: It would be useful for running piuparts on spooky though :)
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Doubtful
<sistpoty|work> well, I don't mind using spooky as a developer box too much (e.g. for pbuildering), as long as uwsa take responsibility ;)
<DktrKranz2> debian has community boxes, it's a shame we don't (or on a limited basis)
<persia> Depends on spooky's speed.  I remember sparky having resource contention issues between developer use and REVU.
<sistpoty|work> persia: spooky is fast... and has lots of ram :)
<persia> OK.  Depends on UWSA, but even just for hunting down FTBFS, it might be useful (as we're not all as equipped as StevenK)
<\sh> DktrKranz2, debian has a lot sponsors for hardware and ip connectivity
<DktrKranz2> \sh, yeah :(
<ScottK> If someone wants to do a great service for hppa, what it needs is someone who cares to figure out getting that java infrastructure working.  As it is, any package with a java anything (AFAICT) will FTBFS on hppa.
 * sistpoty|work is off home now... cya
<ScottK> DktrKranz2: Are you still ack'ing SRU's?
<DktrKranz2> ScottK: office time ran out, if you have a quick one, sure
<ScottK> DktrKranz2: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13954003/pyslide_0.4-10ubuntu2.1.debdiff and the last few comments in Bug #199014
<DktrKranz2> ScottK: fine for me, remember to fix it in intrepid somehow
<ScottK> Will do.
<DktrKranz2> thanks
<ScottK> IIRC the version in Debian doesn't actually need it anymore, but I'll get it taken care of.  Did you mark it in the bug?
<DktrKranz2> ScottK: right now
<ScottK> Thanks.
 * ScottK is getting a lot of LP timeouts right now, so can't tell.
<jdong> *sigh* I give up on Launchpad for the day
<ScottK> I'm sure we're just not using it right.
 * DktrKranz2 off
<davromaniak> hi
<davromaniak> I have a little question about the tshirt with all the names written on it, what was the condition to have his name on the shirt, because it's kind of strange that my name isn't on it, so if there was a quota of work done for hardy, I understand it.
<persia> davromaniak: Was your name on a changelog for hardy?
<davromaniak> ah, no, I only did bug reports
<persia> Are you an ubuntumember?
<davromaniak> yes, since september
<persia> That's likely it then.
<davromaniak> ok
<persia> And don't discount bugwork.  Bugs are a major way in which Ubuntu is improved.
<jdong> persia: big +1
<jdong> bug QA'ers are my heroes here.
<davromaniak> ok thanks persia I will ask nemphis about this
<jdong> what is this t-shirt that people keep referring to?
 * jdong feels lost
<nxvl> what t-shirt with names on it?
 * nxvl wants
 * nixternal too
<nxvl> davromaniak: what t-shirt are we talking about?
<asomething> I'd imagine it's this: http://www.seqfault.de/blog/index.php?/archives/87-Einfach-mal-Danke-sagen.html
<persia> http://www.seqfault.de/files/hardy-thankyou.png ?
<asomething> I didn't know it was made into a t-shirt though
 * ScottK is curious where to get this shirt.
<persia> Well, it's an image.  Making a shirt is a matter of handing the image to your local silkscreener.
<ScottK> Right.
<persia> Ought cost ~5 euros for decent quality shirts in bulk.  Maybe 10 for an individual order.  Cheap shirts are about 3 (in bulk).
 * ScottK was hoping for more of a point/click/hand over a credit card number solution.
 * ScottK senses an entreprenurial opportunity for someone.
<persia> Ah.  Hmm..  That takes a couple weeks to set up...
<jdong> ScottK: likewise :D
<persia> Anyone have a merchant account and a relationship with a silkscreener?
<jdong> I would certainly buy one
<ScottK> Not /me (which is why I ask).
<nxvl> where can i can i buy one?
<persia> jdong: If I send you contact info for a reputable silkscreener in Needham, can you organise some?
<jdong> persia: -ENOTIME :(
<persia> heh.  Unfortunately, the only silkscreener I've worked with is in Needham, and I'm not sure anyone else is close enough for that to matter.
<ScottK> jdong: You belong to a loco that needs some fund raising perhaps?
<persia> True.  Anyone in that loco ought be able to get there.
 * persia notes that it likely also needs someone to secure the rights to the image...
<persia> (personal use is likely fine, but fundraising / sales is likely to require paperwork, even if everyone is amenable to no charge solutions)
 * nxvl blogs
<sebner> I also should consider making a t-shirt. I'm also on the list ^^ xD
 * asomething was pleasantly surprised to see his name
<asomething> Any one have experience with registering the new x-content mime type used by the nautilus media tab? I'm trying to add ;x-content/audio-cdda;x-content/audio-player; to Exaile but it doesn't seem to show up in nautilus after installing the the package. adding a dh_desktop call didn't seem to help. Is there any thing special about this? Bug #191475
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 191475 in amarok "[hardy] media tab in file management preferences missing applications" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191475
<davromaniak> I sent an email to nemphis to know if there's a "selection"
<coppro> is there any way to make Firefox use KDE MIME associations? If not, it might make a good package
<mahmoud3> Hello .. May a MOTU repackage grsync from debian sid ,  this fixes LP bug #148272
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 148272 in grsync "grsync crashes on save session" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/148272
<james_w> mahmoud3: that will happen automatically once this archives open for intrepid.
<zul> \sh: ping
 * asomething slaps forehead when he realizes that he's just not calling dh_desktop in the right place
<Festor> Is it possible to make a control file translatable?
<Festor> 	
<Festor> I refer to appear in several languages depending on the system where you install the package
<Festor> Is it possible to make a control file translatable?
<Festor> I refer to appear in several languages depending on the system where you install the package
<laga> Festor: no need to repeat your question. if someone knows, they'll answer
<persia> Festor: I don't believe the translations belong in debian/control directly (and no need to repeat yourself).  Take a look at http://www.debian.org/intl/l10n/ddtp for some pointers that might lead to you a solution.
<Festor> sorry
<Festor> thanks persia :D
<Kopfgeldjaeger> if i need someone to upload some packages i made (not only now, but also later | mostly merges from debian), would it make sense to look for a mentor?
<sebner> Kopfgeldjaeger: a mentor is not forced to upload for merges. The archives for intrepid are still so wait some days and subscribe u-u-s then
<sebner> hey jono :D
<sebner> argh. still closed
<Kopfgeldjaeger> yeah, i know that a mentor isnt really for uploading. thanks.
<ScottK> Kopfgeldjaeger: There's a sponsorship process.  I suggest following it.  People getting impatient about sponsorship is a good way to end up getting ignored.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> (just fto be sure: the thanks was for the tip with u-u-s and not sarcastic in any way :) )
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok
<Kopfgeldjaeger> So, for every package I made, create or change a bug report, set it to confirmed, upload a debdiff (?) there and subscribe u-u-s ?
<jdong> Kopfgeldjaeger: that's correct
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok, thanks.
<sebner> Kopfgeldjaeger: if the debdiff is for universe packages, yes
<jdong> ScottK: why isn't bug 223789 valid for Ubuntu Mercurial?
<jdong> it seems to be a wishlist/update bug
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 223789 in mercurial "[needs-packaging] mercurial 1.0" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223789
<ScottK> jdong: It'll be auto sync'ed from Debian.  Dunno what the bug would be for.
<sebner> Always wanted to do a FFe for it but debian never had this 1.0 version ^^
<jdong> ScottK: ah, I was unaware the version desired was already in Debian
<ScottK> http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/mercurial/mercurial_1.0-4.dsc
<\sh> uhm? the archives are open?
<sebner> \sh: what?
<sebner> intrepid?
<sebner> wth?
<\sh> regarding intrepid-changes ...
<\sh> or is it only the time to get the toolchain up2date?
<sebner> damn it
<sebner> I want to become a ubuntu member first ^^
<ScottK> \sh: Toolchain.
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> ScottK, so it's still time to relax and watchings things to come closer to a workable state...
<sebner> ScottK: on LP intrepid is now "frozen" :) but edgy should be removed ...
<ScottK> sebner: Give them a few days on Edgy.  It just went eol over the weekend.
<sebner> kk. np
<\sh> sebner, actually it should say: deprecated, please upgrade to feisty or gutsy or hardy
<ScottK> \sh: SRUs
<\sh> ScottK, na...-security and new crack for me :)
<\sh> claws-mail testing :) wine on lpia
<ScottK> leonel: I could really do with some clamav debdiffs for Feisty/Gusty ...
<\sh> and wireshark on dapper :(
<ScottK> speaking of security.
<sebner> \sh: also want to add a testimonial? ^^ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StefanEbner
<RainCT> Do you believe? sebner impersonates MOTUs and writes bad stuff about himself -.- (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StefanEbner, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StefanEbner?action=info).. lol
<sebner> RainCT: damn you ^^ wait some seconds and I have a second testimonial :D
<\sh> hmm...
<leonel> ScottK: sorry for the delay ,  I can do it today
<ScottK> OK.  Great.
<leonel> ScottK:  what happened to  bug 213500
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 213500 in clamav "heap corruption before 0.92.1" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213500
<ScottK> leonel: I should have the Debian clamav 0.93 package today.
<ScottK> leonel: Nothing AFAIK.
<\sh> sebner, why did you change your nick from hellboy to sebner?
<ScottK> I'd combine those changes with the new ones in one debdiff.
<leonel> ScottK:  so shuld I cancel tha
<leonel> ScottK:  ok
<sebner> \sh: ah now you recognise me ^^
<sebner> \sh: because it was stupid and for potential copyright issues
<\sh> sebner, na...I knew it already...but I never had the time to ask :)
<sebner> ah. kk
<\sh> sebner, you mean the marvel comic and movie "Hellboy"?
<\sh> sebner, this second class C movie? ;)
<sebner> yeah ^^. late in 2005 I was looking for a nickname and I was young *gg*
<leonel> ScottK: so hardy and dapper are  updated  just gutsy and feisty need patches ??
<\sh> sebner, this guy with red skin and some horns ?
<sebner> \sh: It's not that bad though I'm not a fan of it ^^
<sebner> \sh: yep
<ScottK> leonel: Hardy is fine.  Dapper is fixed in backports and I hope to convince and archive admin to copy that to updates.
<ScottK> So please concentrate on Gutsy/Feisty.
<\sh> sebner, well, I think I have to decline your application, because what we really need, is a red skinned devil, drinking whisky and smoking cigars and always ready to draw a really big gun ;)
<RainCT> xDDD
<sebner> \sh: ohh sad but I understand xD
<RainCT> apachelogger: lol
<leonel> ScottK:  OK
<sebner> hrhr
<\sh> sebner, no, IO
<sebner> \sh: ^^. please read second testimonial
<ScottK> sebner: Fancy looking into Bug 222486?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 222486 in klamav "KlamAV does not work if scanning ARJ files is enabled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222486
 * ScottK runs off to the bank.
 * sebner hides xD
<apachelogger> RainCT: \sh did it!
<RainCT> apachelogger: with your name? o_O
<apachelogger> ah, right, he is a whitish hat, bad excuse I guess -.-
<sebner> ScottK: maybe on weekend. doesn't look like it now but I have to work for school ^^
<sebner> ScottK: also want to add something?
<ScottK> sebner: Figure the fix for that one and I'll get over my hurt feelings about not being asked.
<sebner> ^^
 * apachelogger gives ScottK a cookie
<sebner> I think with that testimonial I should replace mark xD xD xD
<RainCT> sebner: bah and you don't even apologize to ScottK. you *are* evil!
<RainCT> *g*
<sebner> My passion, my pleasure :)
<\sh> apachelogger, what did I do?
<\sh> sebner, hope it helps...and always look on the bright side of life :)
<sebner> \sh: omg. great. xD xD xD
<\sh> apachelogger, my testimonial is longer then yours ;)
<\sh> it's really the time to open the archives...and not writing strange things on wiki pages ;)
<\sh> sebner, I'm looking forward to welcome you to the inner circle of hard work and old farts, aka MOTU :)
<sebner> \sh: hrhr
<apachelogger> \sh: hard work? Oo
<apachelogger> omg
<sebner> \sh: well. this testimonial is just for the new universe contributors page ;)
<apachelogger> none told me -.-
<sebner> apachelogger: hrhr
<rzr> hi guys
<rzr> are you all running hardy ?
<sebner> \sh: page = group
<apachelogger> \sh: btw, it's not always the length that matters :P
<\sh> apachelogger, well, look in the mirror, I can't even count your wrinkles anymore ;)
<apachelogger> good point
 * rzr thought about upgrading on n+1
<sebner> lol
<\sh> apachelogger, right, but I'm using sbuild, so I know the technique very well too...regarding my age and my...oh damn, I should go to bed ;)
 * apachelogger is wondering when 8.10 development starts
<sebner> apachelogger: some days
<\sh> apachelogger, it already begun ;)
 * apachelogger doesn't see it
<apachelogger> it is hiding, that isn't a good sign IMO
<\sh> apachelogger, don't you read hardy-plus-one-changes?
<rzr> \sh: any url so suggest ?
<sebner> \sh: motu candidature will come in 2-3 months but I hope I can keep your comment for it ^^
<\sh> apachelogger, matthias and adam are already pushing the toolchain
<apachelogger> \sh: no... that said, I should be reading maths
<apachelogger> hoooray
<apachelogger> oh, hold on, I will only join intrepid development in july
<sebner> apachelogger: school doesn't matter ;) not for me and it shouldn't for you :P
<\sh> apachelogger, hmmm...but for linuxtag you have time, right? I don't want to sleep  next to a german ,->
<apachelogger> lol
<apachelogger> I have a talk @ LT
<\sh> apachelogger, ok...I think it's time to make a secret public...
<sebner> apachelogger: about? kde, amarok?
<apachelogger> sebner: I dunno
<sebner> xD
<apachelogger> Nightrose: is doing the talks I am responsible for the jokes
<Nightrose> oO
<Nightrose> you didn't tell me that yet honey :P
 * apachelogger is afraid which secrets \sh might make public
<sebner> lol
<sebner> \sh: we hear :P
<apachelogger> Nightrose: now you know :P
<Nightrose> apachelogger: thx for telling me
<Nightrose> :P
 * \sh likes apachelogger , me fell in love with an austrian ,->
 * apachelogger blushes
<sebner> \sh and apachelogger sitting on a tree and kissing ... xD
<\sh> sebner, not really...no...
<sebner> ^^
<apachelogger> hm
<apachelogger> I have acrophobia or whatever the correct spelling is
<\sh> arachnophobia?
<laga> agoraphobie?
<sebner> \sh = spider? hmm xD
<laga> s/ie/ia/
 * \sh is just afraid of stinking feet
<\sh> ok...time to stop being funny.../me needs to fix some things on a server
<apachelogger> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrophobia
<afflux> sebner: evening :)
<sebner> afflux: aloha ;)
<afflux> sebner: will you appear at linuxtag in berlin?
<sebner> afflux: unfortunately not. Too far away and no time :(
<apachelogger> pfft
<afflux> ah, pity :(
<apachelogger> lame excuse
<leonel> ScottK: been thinking  about clamav  and can  we  keep the lattest  clamav for  the  current ubuntu versions  and add a dialog or alert box to the clamav package that use the backports  or  keep it on ppa  ?
<sebner> apachelogger: yes?
<\sh> sebner, try to get a ride with apachelogger
<apachelogger> if I can, sebner can as well
<afflux> hehe
<apachelogger> \sh: I am flying most probably
<\sh> apachelogger, bah....moneytrader you
<apachelogger> well
<sebner> \sh: better would be to get rid *of* apachelogger ;)
<apachelogger> I don't know who is paying yet
<sebner> apachelogger: amarok :P
<apachelogger> I guess canonical could buy my for the kubuntu booth
<apachelogger> or KDE
<afflux> hope we'll meet at the ubuntu area then :P
<apachelogger> otherwise I will have to work @amarok
<afflux> juliux asked me to come and I got a suspension at school
<\sh> apachelogger, I think we can mix it up this year :) I'll come around and show off amarok how it should supposed to be working ,)
<apachelogger> uhh, then I can do nerdtalk @ the kubuntu booth :D
<apachelogger> afflux: LT is great fun
<\sh> afflux, you are suspended from school, because julius asked you to visit the linuxtag?
<\sh> oh dear, I'm sorry..
<afflux> apachelogger: LT?
<\sh> afflux, LT == LinuxTag
<afflux> ah right
<apachelogger> there we have the nerdtalk again
<\sh> afflux, if you would like to come to LT, please join the kubuntu-de booth, there we can have beer...not at the ubuntu-de booth, there it's forbidden to drink beer in the evening ;)
<afflux> awawaw. apachelogger fights against me in 5-a-day, I *WONT* :P
<afflux> well, fight is the wrong expression. He beats ubuntu-de-loco :)
 * apachelogger doesn't even 5-a-day half his bugs :P
<apachelogger> far too lazy
<afflux> that's why I have this nice applet
<apachelogger> doesn't help
<Syntux> guys, I read in Ubuntu Newsletter that you have mentoring space now
<RainCT> Syntux: it says just the opposite, iirc
<laga> no mentoring available? sad
<RainCT> btw, I'm thinking about mentoring someone.. feel free to convince me (but not now, I should be studying since hours)
 * laga sends RainCT to studying
<\sh> RainCT, mentor me :)
<crimsun> cool, then \sh can mentor me :)
<ajmitch> then crimsun can mentor me
 * sebner is off for today. doing some work for school :(.  gn8 @ all
<crimsun> woo!
<afflux> sebner: good night
<RainCT> and then ajmitch can mentor me and we get a nice loop :)
<RainCT> gn8 sebner
<sebner> :)
<RainCT> well, I'm closing irssi as else I won't do anything lol
<RainCT> good night
 * \sh too...time to say good night :)
<jdong> who runs the ubuntu QA blog?
<jdong> I am a bit disappoitned the latest post to Planet from that account seems to undertone "Hardy's released, let's stop caring about it and work on the next release"
<jdong> :-/
<jdong> I think mentioning the point release schedule and encouraging work on SRUs wouldv'e been better
<ScottK> leonel: No.  I want to work within the process for update to the official repository.  This would be easier if the upstream were more sane.
<YokoZar> ScottK: I'm aware of wineconfig and it's author idles in #ubuntu-wine with me.  There's some upstream work being done on Wine (at my request) to allow configuration from the command line so we can replace wineconfig with some more generic configuration tools (eg, being able to remove Wine apps from Gnome-App-Install)
<ScottK> YokoZar: The reason I ask is that large chunks of kde-guidance are likely to get dropped in Intrepid due to kde4 transition.  I'm trying to figure out what we want to keep around.
<leonel> ScottK:  I agree  we need to make security patches  but can we  just recommend to use  a newer backported  clamav ?
<jdong> leonel: I thought we were doing exactly that in hardy-backports?
<jdong> leonel: but if they keep changing the API/ABI and needing us to rebuild our reverse deps it makes it a pain to backport
<ScottK> leonel: My hope is to convince the archive admins to copy 0.92.1 into dapper/feisty/gutsy updates.
<leonel> jdong:  what I mean is just  to make more clear to clamav users that it's better  if they don't get hit by a api change  to use backports
<leonel> ScottK: lets keep pushing ..
<Kopfgeldjaeger> n8
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-29
<LaserJock> is a 2GB file size limit a property of the kernel or filesystem?
<RAOF> Filesystem.  Don't use fat, it's borken :)
<LaserJock> I'm not using fat
<LaserJock> I'm using ext3
 * RAOF looks at his various >4GB files sitting on ext3
<RAOF> And is surprised.
<LaserJock> then maybe it is the kernel?
<LaserJock> or maybe an old version of ext3
<leonel> or a < 2gb HD
<jdong> leonel: LOL.
<jdong> LaserJock: 2GB is such a weird size
<jdong> LaserJock: what inode size did you set up?
<jdong> LaserJock: you didn't hit that news server button thing for fun did you? :)
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I just have an old Debian version
<LaserJock> it's a 120GB hard drive
<LaserJock> and I was writing a data file and it said it reached a 2Gb limit
<jdong> LaserJock: 2GB file size limit is likely the result of silly inode sizes
<LaserJock> how can I check that?
<LaserJock> preferably without destroying my data :-)
<jdong> LaserJock: dumpe2fs dev_node
<jdong> LaserJock: I think that's Block size:               1024 you should be lookin for
<LaserJock> jdong: so it's not because I'm running a 2.4 kernel?
<LaserJock> I get a block size of 1024 it looks like
<jdong> LaserJock: I'm at least not aware of kernel 2.4 limiting filesizes down to that extremity
<jdong> LaserJock: I know some userland apps have trouble with >4GiB but I'm unaware of a 2GB barrier
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> we used to have 2GB barriers all the time
<jdong> LaserJock: maybe I was just really really poor when I started with Linux 2.4 :D
<LaserJock> was a problem when DVD .isos started being made
<jdong> LaserJock: oh yeah, wget had a 2GB barrier didn't it.
<LaserJock> yep
<jdong> yeah you're right, you might be hitting userland size type barriers
<LaserJock> I believe that stemmed from "well, we can't make a file bigger than 2GB anyway"
<jdong> btw I liked your piece on Fedora
<jdong> I think it roughly mirrors my experience with the distro and its community too
<LaserJock> glad somebody thought it was ok
<LaserJock> next up I'm gonna look at Fedora and Ubuntu SRU policies
<LaserJock> that's the one I'm gonna put my fire suit on for ;-)
<RAOF> I thought Fedora didn't freeze, and as such didn't really have a SRU policy?
<jdong> LaserJock: yeah you're really gonna need a fire suit for that
<jdong> RAOF: they partially freeze
<jdong> RAOF: i.e. they won't bring in big things that'll break the world
<LaserJock> they have a "be sensible" freeze
<jdong> RAOF: i.e. toolchain, certain kernel updates, GNOME core
<jdong> RAOF: but they will feel free to bring in basically anything we call universe
<RAOF> Right.  That makes sense.
<jdong> IMO it's sensible for the home Linux enthusiast
<LaserJock> but there are some other more philosophical things as well I'm gonna try to hit on
<jdong> it's not terribly appropriate for the enterprise deployment
<jdong> and I think that's something that needs to be addressed in your thoughts on it, LaserJock
<RAOF> Which means that their SRU policy is likely at least as stringent as Ubuntu's, right?
<jdong> i.e. Ubuntu tries to cater to both enterprise and enthusiast users
<jdong> while Fedora only has to dealw it hthe latter.
<jdong> RHEL's SRU policy is even more stringent than Ubuntu's
<RAOF> (If we restrict 'stable' to mean 'the part that's frozen')
<jdong> RAOF: correct
<jdong> RAOF: they do RHEL-style backporting for the part that's frozen
<LaserJock> "As a 32-bit UNIX system, Linux can handle files not longer than 2Gb."
<jdong> RAOF: but that's less of a concern for the end user that just wonders why the latest K3b isn't available in a 4-month-old release
<RAOF> jdong: Yeah.  It makes a lot of sense for some fraction of the userbase.
<zul> bye bye reiser
<jdong> RAOF: I like Ubuntu's duality and I think ultimately our best solution is to cater to Fedora-like users with a more expanded, open Backports-style effort, while still doing traditional SRUs side by side
<jdong> RAOF: there's no reason why they have to be mutually exclusive the way they are now
<jdong> if someone wants to bring in KTorrent 2.0.4 to fix a bug in KTorrent 2.0.3, there's no reason why we should reject that just because we *can* do a SRU patch-backport
<TheMuso> zul: I saw that.
<RAOF> jdong: Have some sort of Debian-testing like backports thing?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yeah I liked your piece on Fedora. I intend installing Fedora on a new box I got recently alongside other distros. I want to see whats going on elsewhere.
<zul> TheMuso: let the jokes begin :)
<LaserJock> I was honestly surprised
<jdong> RAOF: yeah, I'm thinking a backports-proposed repo that all MOTUs are allowed to upload any (reasonable) packaging of their choosing
<LaserJock> for my laptop Fedora would be my #2 distro
<LaserJock> Debian's nice but takes quite a bit of work on my laptop
<jdong> RAOF: and then the backports team ACKs such packages for copying into backports
<jdong> LaserJock: I feel better having some OS diversity across my systems too
<jdong> LaserJock: I'm strongly considering turning one of my systems to Fedora
<LaserJock> jdong: the problem I personally have -backports is I almost never want the whole thing
<LaserJock> jdong: it's well worth having a look at what they're doing
<jdong> LaserJock: perhaps we need to handle pinning better via update-manager and apt/preferences then
<RAOF> Isn't it by default pinned so that you can install individual things & pull in the necessary deps?
<jdong> RAOF: no default, backports is shut off entirely
<jdong> RAOF: turning it on, update manager recognizes backports separately but checks them all by default
<RAOF> jdong: I mean, once you turn it on.
<jdong> RAOF: and also, update-manager nags about backports updates just like any other update
<jdong> RAOF: when you turn it on, it's not pinned at all
<RAOF> Oh, right.  Yeah, that could be better.
<LaserJock> jdong: what if we did something more like Main -> more enterprise like, Universe -> more desktop like
<LaserJock> and have a strict SRU policy for Main and Fedora-like for Universe?
<jdong> LaserJock: doesn't handle the use case of transmission, KTorrent, and other universe-like apps that seeped into main
<jdong> LaserJock: but in general that distinction works well
<LaserJock> jdong: but those could be perhaps handled via exceptions?
<jdong> LaserJock: perhaps the added provision that we are allowed in universe-SRU to override a main package
<jdong> (puts on flamesuit!)
<LaserJock> yikes
<RAOF> Or a reworking of the archive structure, ala that u-d thread.
<jdong> LaserJock: it sounded better before I wrote it down!
<LaserJock> RAOF: that would be a rather messy SRU policy
<LaserJock> I'm not sure how we'd do it there
<LaserJock> per-seed SRU policies sounds like not-so-fun times
<jdong> LaserJock: my opinion still stands that we should open backports uploads to all SRUs and filter them through a -proposed queue on backports
<jdong> and keep SRUs  there too
<LaserJock> hmm
<jdong> there's defintiely some packages in universe we want to do regular SRUs for, like lighttpd, clamav, etc
<LaserJock> I kinda am not found of that idea
<LaserJock> *fond
<jdong> and IMO those two styles of updating should be kept as independent efforts in independent repos
<jdong> Fedora makes no attempt to combine them
<jdong> which is why Fedora is not designed for an enterprise environment
<LaserJock> if an SRU should be done it should be done, doing it in -backports seems like a workaround
<jdong> LaserJock: it might be a workaround but is a faster , more effortless soltuion that satisfies the enthusiast user
<jdong> LaserJock: it doesn't preclude the delivery of a SRU
<LaserJock> maybe we can have an SRU policy that accommodates that though
<jdong> LaserJock: that's like the archive admins refusing to pull a faulty update because it's a workaround of uploading a new fixed one tomorrow ;-)
<LaserJock> well, let me rethink this
<jdong> they should be complementary
<LaserJock> I guess in a broad definition of SRU it makes sense
<LaserJock> so if we break it up into bug SRUs and feature SRUs
<jdong> LaserJock: I think it makes more sense to break this down in terms of use cases
<LaserJock> then we have a reasonable definition of -updates and -backports
<jdong> we clearly have two different usecases that Ubuntu tries to meet:
<jdong> (1) Joe User is running Ubuntu on his personal laptop. He hears about the newest KTorrent that fixes 2 bugs and adds a major new feature. He wants to try it out.
<jdong> (2) Bob Sysadmin manages an enterprise KDE rollout. He is concerned about 1 of the bugs in KTorrent which is a remote crasher but doesn't want the risk of regressions from the unrelated updates.
<jdong> #1 should be handled as a backport and #2 should be a traditional SRU
<LaserJock> sure
<jdong> both can be offered side by side because typically it's different people who want them
<LaserJock> that's the current situation, IMO
<jdong> and in fact different people who will perform the update
<jdong> LaserJock: current situation is technically we're not allowed to backport for the purpose of bugfixing
<jdong> LaserJock: and also backports must be derived from development packaging, when sometimes current packaging + uupdate is more appropriate
<LaserJock> but that would be a SRU under your scheme
<jdong> (i.e. when Intrepid undergoes some migration or rocky packaging)
<jdong> what I'm saying is we should be allowed to do both. Both backport with intent to fix bugs AND introduce new features
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> that's kinda grey
<jdong> the only major issue I see is versioning convention
<LaserJock> if doing a new upstream releases fixes bugs I don't think anybody is going to complain ;-)
<LaserJock> but the purpose of -backports is for user 1)
<jdong> LaserJock: indeed , but the current imposed limitations on backports doesn't satify user #1
<LaserJock> jdong: why?
<jdong> LaserJock: I'd estimate 25% of backports requests get approved ultimately.
<ScottK> jdong: Backports shouldn't be a workaround for SRUs are to hard.
<arpu> hi
<arpu> i hope here am right
<jdong> LaserJock: the remaining 25% are packages that FTBFS due to a migration, 25% are bugfix-only updates that the archive admins would reject, and the remaining are during a freeze or other case where development branch cannot receive the new version necessary
<arpu> can someone help me with this bug ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/223843
<arpu>   i found out it have nothing to do with the xrdb error messages in .xsession-errors
<ScottK> jdong: I think backporting for non-sru worthy bug fixes should be fine.
<jdong> ScottK: I don't think we need to preclude backporting SRU-worthy fixes either
<ScottK> I've been accepting that all along in fact.
<jdong> ScottK: because there's no reason why the presence of that backport would discourage/preclude a SRU anyway
<LaserJock> jdong: but they should be fixed in -updates?
<jdong> LaserJock: ideally they should be fixed in both
<ScottK> jdong: I think they should do the SRU first if it's feasible.
<jdong> LaserJock: independently at their own pace
<LaserJock> jdong: well, sure
<LaserJock> but there's nothing that says you can't do that now
<jdong> one should not discourage/preclude the other
<ScottK> jdong: I think that's a good theory, but in practice backports do take the pressure off getting an SRU done.
<LaserJock> I just don't know why you'd want to do the same thing twice
<jdong> ScottK: should we really be artificially be imposing that pressure to favor SRUs though?
<ScottK> It's not the same thing twice.
<ScottK> jdong: We should.  -updates is enabled by default and -backports is not.
<jdong> LaserJock: a SRU fix is often not the same as a backport both in the patch itself and the validation process involved
<ScottK> Each for good reasons..
<LaserJock> ScottK: why isn't it?
<jdong> LaserJock: volatility and reduced QA
<LaserJock> I'm just not sure I have good realistic cases here
<jdong> LaserJock: backports is pretty lax on letting new packages in and they're probably at a higher regression risk
<LaserJock> jdong: so?
<jdong> LaserJock: users might cry and whine when backports breaks things
<jdong> not like they don't when -updates breaks things ;-)
<LaserJock> what I'm saying is, if a bug is SRU worthy, then should get it into -updates
<ScottK> The standard for backports is "Builds, Installs, Runs".  Updates go through rather more QA.
<LaserJock> why would we then do the same thing in -backports?
<LaserJock> when the user is getting the fix from -updates
<ScottK> We wouldn't do the same thing.
<jdong> LaserJock: because it's often not the same thing
<LaserJock> then I don't see the problem
<LaserJock> you can already do it
<jdong> LaserJock: the backport would be we take the latest upstream tarball and package it and upload it
<LaserJock> just upload your new upstream release
<ScottK> -updates would get a targetted patch.  -backports gets the whole new version.
<LaserJock> ScottK: that's my point
<jdong> LaserJock: the SRU would be examining the changes line-by-line and isolating only the useful ones
<LaserJock> there's no reason you can't do that now
<jdong> LaserJock: other than the limitations the TB imposed on backports
<LaserJock> no
<jdong> LaserJock: i.e. speicifcally we are not allowed to backport for bugfixing reasons
<LaserJock> but you aren't
<LaserJock> you're backporting a new version that happens to fix a bug
<LaserJock> no biggie
<jdong> LaserJock: try telling the archive admins that ;-)
<LaserJock> why would they object?
<jdong> LaserJock: I've gotten rejected backport approvals for that reason before
<LaserJock> how would they  know?
<jdong> LaserJock: i.e. "this looks like it should be SRU, won't do"
<jdong> LaserJock: they read the backports bug tickets
<LaserJock> hmm, I guess I'm not really up on -backports, I can't imagine why there's an issue
<LaserJock> if a bug is SRU worthy then it should be in -updates
<LaserJock> that says *nothing* about -backports
<jdong> LaserJock: agreed
<jdong> ScottK: do you think I'd be in a shark-infested pool alone to propose that -backports get a -backports-proposed where all MOTUs are allowed to upload? ;-)
<LaserJock> jdong: what would that do for us?
<persia> I suspect the rationale is that a bugfix oughtn't be backported before it goes to -updates, rather than that bugfixes oughtn't go to backports.
<jdong> LaserJock: increase the accessibility of the backports path
<jdong> persia: I think the ultimate rationale is that IF we allow backports to do it, then nobody would bother separating out the patch for SRU because it's more work
<jdong> i.e. people would start saying that Backports "fixes" some bug as a solution.
<LaserJock> jdong: and why do we want that?
<ScottK> jdong: I think anything that increases archive admin steps is a bad idea in the current archive management paradigm.
<persia> jdong: Right,
<LaserJock> jdong: I think that's correct
<jdong> LaserJock: why do we want the current system that I have to keep ScottK on a leash for sponsoring backports? ;-)
<LaserJock> we want to push people to -updates for bug fixes
<LaserJock> as that's turned on by default and is the minimal use-case for getting a fix to people
<LaserJock> jdong: I just wondered if you're having a hard time getting backports done or what. I just don't know
<jdong> LaserJock: at times, yes. I feel like the burden is mostly on ScottK and I to do all of the grunt of the work and people who can be testing can't really test because packages are not readily available
<ScottK> We have choke points all along the path.
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> I don't do backports because I don't use -backports
<ScottK> Not enough testers, not enough core-dev support, not enough archive admin time.
<LaserJock> that's sort of a limitation
<jdong> LaserJock: backports would work great from a community testing model where users volunteer as guinea pigs for a -proposed archive of just generously-built backports
<jdong> LaserJock: msot of the users I speak to have no reservations about putting their systems up for such a job
<jdong> LaserJock: but they also are afraid of the pbuilder/prevu build process
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> what if you had a PPA? or do you do that already?
<jdong> LaserJock: imagine if all SRU verifications had to be done by posting a debdiff and asking users to "go test"
<jdong> LaserJock: well I've considered using a PPA to simulate such a build but I'd like it better if it were something official
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> it just seems to me that we should be able to create common testing grounds/tools/strategies
<LaserJock> I don't think we get nearly enough testing from -proposed
<jdong> LaserJock: the other advantage of having an archive is the ability to directly copy a tested backport verbatim, without having to deal with the race condition of the devel branch getting a new upload
<ScottK> We get 'go path' is the bug fixed testing, not are there regressions testing.
<jdong> LaserJock: I don't think users are too aware of the SRU -proposed archive sheerly because of its low volume and "uninteresting" updates
<jdong> LaserJock: I'd venture a bet that a theoretical testing backports repo that accepted new version backports of everything to be quite "popular" ;-)
<jdong> (good thing or not, I won't say!)
<LaserJock> *sigh*
<LaserJock> I suppose
<jdong> maybe I've just completely lost my sanity tonight :)
<LaserJock> if we could get more testing though I think we could have more interesting uploads to -proposed
<ajmitch> s/tonight//g
<jdong> LaserJock: there is this viscous cycle :)
<ScottK> jdong and LaserJock: My clamav updates to Dapper are perhaps an interesting hybrid.  That went PPA (test) -> dapper-backports (test) -> dapper-updates
<ScottK> clamav and a all the needed rdepends
<LaserJock> in reality, I think -proposed is almost useless
<LaserJock> for almost all SRUs your not gonna just enable -proposed and say, "Oh, they fixed that, cool"
<ScottK> When there was a bad upload of svn to gutsy-proposed a few months ago we got a lot of bug.
 * ScottK would never just enable proposed (although apparently people do).
<LaserJock> people most often have to read the bug report, check out the use cases, and actively test
<LaserJock> you're pretty much just as well to attach a .deb or link to a PPA
<ScottK> What proposed gets you is knowing exactly what's going to end up in -updates is what got testing.
<LaserJock> yep
<ajmitch> assuming that people actually test & give feedback on -proposed
<ScottK> That and you aren't encouraging people to install random software from bug reports/third party repos.
<LaserJock> but having an option for it in "Software Sources" does pretty much nothing
<LaserJock> if you know what I mean
<wgrant> -proposed and -backports should really be pinned when enabled... why don't we do that?
<ScottK> Good question.
 * wgrant hasn't read the whole conversation, as he's at work.
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to think of some ways that we can actually get some testing for SRUs
<LaserJock> as I think that opens up a lot of possibilities
<wgrant> Have people subscribe to a mythical testing ML, to which emails soliciting SRU testing are sent.
<LaserJock> that's a good idea
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if something along the lines of the iso tracker could be used
<LaserJock> and plugging more into the QA team
<LaserJock> say we had a page with a list of packages
<LaserJock> and then individual pages for them that give the test case and a place to click on a "worked for me"
<LaserJock> then promote the snot out of it
<bddebian> Heya gang
 * ScottK is envisioning this page on Launchpad.  It will be slow and very confusing, but look really cool.
<ScottK> heya bd.
<ScottK> bddebian even
<ScottK> Gotta hit tab for the tab completion to work.
<bddebian> Heya ScottK
<ScottK> leonel: Debian package of clamav 0.93 is up in the clamav PPA.
<ScottK> soyuz eating ppa uploads for anyone else?
<ScottK> Nevermind.  Finally showed up.
<ScottK> Three cheers for upstreams that rely on internal interfaces of things they build against.
 * ScottK slaps klamav across the room and heads for bed.
<Zelut> so when I try to build a package with dpkg-buildpackage it complains about no Makefile
<Zelut> ..but it has the instructions it needs in the rules file.  I'm lost..
<TheMuso> Zelut: Is the rules file executable?
<Zelut> TheMuso: it is
<TheMuso> Well obviously a makefile is not found, which the rules file in calling the make command, says it needs.
<Zelut> http://pastebin.ca/1001327 - this is the output of my attempt.
<Zelut> the application does not need to be compiled. the rules file just needs to install them to a few locations.
<Zelut> I guess I don't see / am not familiar enough with the rules file to see why/where its looking for a Makefile
<persia> Line 27.  It calls make.  This implicitly looks for a Makefile.
<Zelut> this is my first rules file.. let me paste what I have and maybe ya'll can tell me what to trim
 * persia suspects the problem is the use of dh_make
<Zelut> http://pastebin.ca/1001333
<persia> OK.  Quick look: firstly, do you have a ./configure in the source?
<Zelut> I don't.
<persia> OK.  Then you likely don't need either of the configure or configure-stamp rules.
<Zelut> all this package needs to do is place 'origami' in /usr/bin and the docs in /usr/share/doc.
<persia> Keep walking through the file with the same sanity check.
<persia> For something that simple, I'd recommend just having a CDBS include of debhelper.mk, and an entry in debian/origami.install
<Zelut> I'm fine with that too if you want to walk me through that :)
<persia> Zelut: OK.  Rules file is two lines.
<persia> #!/usr/bin/make -f
<persia> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<persia> debian/origami.install is one line
<persia> origami usr/bin
<persia> add CDBS to the build-dependencies in debian/control
<Zelut> done
<Zelut> do I need to add the docs I want in /usr/share/doc/origami into the origami.install file?
<coppro> what is the proper way to use dh_compress and dh_installman?
<coppro> assuming I have a prog.1 file already
<StevenK> Zelut: List them in debian/origmai.docs
<TheMuso> coppro: List it in debian/package.manpages
<coppro> dh_compress first, right?
<TheMuso> coppro: I think you shouldn't have to give any arguments to dh_compress
<TheMuso> No.
<Zelut> StevenK: thank you.
<TheMuso> dh_man first.
<coppro> ok
<Zelut> persia: ok, so what do I use to build this voodoo magic?
<coppro> thanks. let's see if this works
<persia> Zelut: debuild :)
<persia> (assuming CDBS and debhelper are installed)
<StevenK> % debuild :)
<StevenK> zsh: parse error near `)'
 * StevenK hides.
<crimsun> mksh: syntax error: ')' unexpected
<persia> Right then.  `debuild # :)`
<crimsun> 1|
<TheMuso> haha
<Zelut> persia: wow.. so it built.  cdbs is magical voodoo isn't it :)
<persia> Yes.  It's magic.  For simple things, magic is quick and easy.  If it gets complex, it may be worth unwinding (I really don't like the sendmail debian/rules)
<Zelut> now, lets say I wanted this package to run three basic commands to clean something up.  How would I do that?
<persia> See, that's where you start getting into deep magic.  You'd add an override rule.  Look at the CDBS documentation from perso.duckcorp: it has a list of common overrides.  When you get longer than about 30 lines, you likely don't want to be using CDBS anymore.
<Zelut> ok.
<coppro> and where can I find the correct list of possible options to fix a doc-base-unknown-section error?
<coppro> I can't figure it out!
<a7x> i wrote a patch to fix a bug (LP: #221661).  would someone be willing to review it and tell me if it's OK?
<a7x> (perhaps ubuntu-devel is a better place to ask...  i'll try there)
<persia> bug #221661
<gnomefreak> a7x: it might be easier to apply the patch and upload to revu
<gnomefreak> persia: bot is gone
<persia> Erm, no.  bugfixes don't belong in REVU: that's for new packages.
<gnomefreak> ah
<gnomefreak> debdiff on bug report thats right
<persia> For bugfixes, best to generate a patch, either put it in a debdiff (or have someone else do that), and subscribe the sponsors.
<a7x> i'm new:  what's debdiff?
<jdong> a7x: you'd really want to catch mvo or Amaranth who are both familiar with compiz enough to give you a meaningful answer
<leonel> ScottK: Great  diffs I'll send them tomorrow
<jdong> a7x: intuitively from looking at the patch I side with you that the current use of export $ENV does nothing useful
<persia> a7x: You might want to take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing (although you may well find someone here who would review your patch)
<a7x> jdong and persia:  thanks
<coppro> how do I get rid of doc-base-unknown-section
<bimberi> br1|: /win 11
<bimberi> well that was deft
<warp10> Good morning
 * persia is amused by intrepid FTBFS reports, and wonders if the FTBFS tracker is watching intrepid yet
<StevenK> Hah
<wgrant> persia: It is now.
<wgrant> It's not right, but...
<wgrant> I can't see why.
<YokoZar> Hey, what exactly do I put into dput to upload to hardy-proposed for an SRU?
<YokoZar> incoming = /hardy-proposed/ ?
<persia> All 0?  Strange.  I received at least two reports for hppa.
<wgrant> persia: As did I.
<wgrant> Well, they were for lpia, and one for hppa.
<YokoZar> actually launchpad rejected incoming = /hardy-proposed
<persia> YokoZar: just upload to ubuntu as usual, with hardy-proposed in your .changes file
<persia> Actually, I've a couple powerpc failures as well.
<ajmitch> YokoZar: new wine for -proposed already? :)
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> rmadison is broken.
<YokoZar> persia: you mean as distribution?
<persia> YokoZar: preceisely
<YokoZar> ajmitch: Yeah the package needs to depend on lib32nss-mdns otherwise dns can't be done on amd64
<persia> You can set this in your changelog entry
<wgrant> Hmm, I think intrepid is borked.
<wgrant> It has no packages.
<ajmitch> borked, or just not setup fully yet?
<ajmitch> YokoZar: yes, that's a definite issue
<wgrant> Both.
<wgrant> YokoZar: Isn't that only the case when libnss-mdns is installed?
<StevenK> wgrant: The Packages files seem large enough
<persia> Hrm.  Somehow I don't think the buildds ought be running intrepid before it's set up...
<wgrant> StevenK: Ah, it didn't have any packages a few hours ago, and I presumed that was why rmadison was being empty. I see it has packages now.
<StevenK> (hardy)root@liquified:~# grep -c Package /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_intrepid_*Packages | cut -d: -f2 | numsum
<StevenK> 24819
<wgrant> I see LP even says it has packages.
<persia> So rmadison ought catch up with the next run of some cronjob?
<wgrant> So somebody needs to fix rmadison.
<wgrant> Is rmadison using a dak import, or some new Soyuz-specific implementation?
<StevenK> Neither
<wgrant> StevenK: What, then?
<StevenK> wgrant: It runs madison-lite
<wgrant> Aha.
<wgrant> StevenK: Should I poke some archive person about it when they appear?
<StevenK> I don't see the point bugging them until the toolchain is uploaded.
<persia> Is it not yet?  Why am I getting build failure messages then?
<persia> Is it just trying to rebuild packages with the old toolchain when the binary version doesn't match the source version?
<wgrant> persia: That's right.
<wgrant> IIRC the build queue thing creates build records for the next distroseries if the build in the previous distroseries failed.
<persia> Nifty.  All the FTBFS's that don't with the latest build tools ought get fixed then :)
<wgrant> Yay, we have a bot.
<StevenK> wgrant: rmadison should be sorted.
<janimo> siretart: hi, do you know if the pulseaudio fixes and improvements mentioned in libxine 1.1.12 relnotes are the same ones backported in ubuntu's 1.1.11.1-1ubuntu3?
<Taylor> hey kahrytan can't you get to terminal? ctrl+alt+f1?
<kahrytan> Taylor,  What?
<Taylor> kahrytan: because if you can get to the terminal by pressing ctrl+alt+f1, then the monitor isn't supported by xorg by default
<kahrytan> I can get to it but screen resolution is messed up. Text is enlarged.
<kahrytan> You must have been in club.
<siretart> janimo: yes, at least they should be. why?
<janimo> siretart: thanks
<janimo> siretart: PA does not seem to get along with totem-xine
<kahrytan> Taylor,  Why you talking to me here?
<janimo> siretart: and I was suggested to maybe check out the latest xine which has PA fixes
<siretart> we had testers on launchpad claiming it would work
<Taylor> kahrytan: because you left ##club-ubuntu
<kahrytan> No one talked.
<Taylor> kahrytan: that's true
<Taylor> kahrytan: did you try editing the xorg config?
<Taylor> pm
<kahrytan> yeah
<kahrytan> !pastebin > kahrytan
<kahrytan> Bug #220952, someone added linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 to the bug even though it has nothing to do with nvidia drivers.  Though, someone did attach mandriva #40403 bug to it and it mirrors the same problem. Could someone correct the bad attachment.
<persia> kahrytan: That's really an #ubuntu-bugs question: looking anyway
<kahrytan> aww. ill redirect in the future
 * persia waits for a join for feedback...
<emgent> morning
<kahrytan> What is motu?
<highvoltage> motu is an acronym for 'masters of the universe'
<highvoltage> they take care of the 'universe' component of ubuntu
<highvoltage> which is the community maintained part of ubuntu
<kahrytan> Oh
<highvoltage> so the motus are mostly community developers
<kahrytan> Then, are you to blame for adding the broken Alien Arena to Hardy
<highvoltage> the motu-games team have merged with the debian games team.
<kahrytan> darn
<highvoltage> in short, the answer to your question is yes.
<kahrytan> The game is broken .. seems well known
<highvoltage> but you might have to hound the debian-games team for that problem :)
<highvoltage> that's a pity. it's a very popular game.
<persia> Well, a fair number of debian-games people are also here
<kahrytan> try playing it for more then 2 maps on single player ...
<kahrytan> 2008 version works from google search.
<norsetto> happy SRU'ing everybody
<YokoZar> norsetto: Indeed...already got one for Wine...
<iulian> G'morning
<jpatrick> morning iulian
<iulian> Hey jpatrick
<norsetto> way to go yokozar
<proppy> oy
<norsetto> super proppy is in, all bow
 * proppy hail to norsetto
<wgrant> \o/ .*
<proppy> .* = fireworks ?
<wgrant> .* == regexp
<proppy> aah ^.*$
<wgrant> No point doing that.
<wgrant> Restricting that there are 0 or more of any character anywhere in the line should be somewhat similar to matching 0 or more of any character being the entire line.
<proppy> sure, but it's pretty
<wgrant> FSVO pretty.
<proppy> useless is pretty
<proppy> wgrant: FSVO ?
<wgrant> For some values of.
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<emgent> heya
<sistpoty|work> hi emgent
<Myrtti> !bot
<ubot5> I am ubot5, ubotu's backup today. :)
<Hobbsee> ah, there we are
<zul> \sh: ping
<\sh> zul, pong
<zul> \sh: do you do the php-xdebug stuff for universe?
<\sh> zul, I uploaded and bugfixed the packages, yes
<zul> \sh: : have you seen #217980
<\sh> bug #217980
<sistpoty|work> ubotu must be on holidays :)
<\sh> zul, hmm?? no open bugs?
<zul> check the apache2 bug listing for 217980
<\sh> zul, yes...I have it now
<\sh> well, the problem is zend-platform ;)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hoi
<zul> \sh: well no the user says he had to remove php5-xdebug
<\sh> zul, yes, because zend-platform does not support other modules next to it
<zul> \sh: ok
<\sh> zul, acrtually zend-platform is closed source, in our company the situation was that, that we couldn't use zend-platform with xdebug, because zend-platform doesn't like some compile options
<azeem> btw, is the UTF8 character at the beginning of the /topic intentional?
<\sh> zul, btw..this applies on windows, too
<zul> care to comment on the bug report then
<\sh> I'll do...I'll subscribe to the bug and do a full knowledge transfer this evening from home...
 * \sh just wonders why he doesn't use the build in zend module for debugging, which is delivered with zend-platform
<zul> thanks
<\sh> well, most likely it crashs because of the strange compile stuff they need...and the build in module works only with zend-core apache package, which doesn't work with php-xdebug, too ;)
<ScottK> So.  I've got this opensuse src.rpm that I know must have the patch I need in it.  What's the easy way to break into this thing and extract stuff?
<laga> ScottK: turn it into a tar.gz using alien?
<ScottK> Maybe.  I'm asking.
<ScottK> \sh: You used to do rpm stuff all the time.  What do you recommend?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: running away.
<ScottK> laga: That seems to work.  THanks.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: That's worked up to now.  Unfortunately klamav FTBFS with the new clamav just uploaded to Debian and opensuse seem to have got it working.
<\sh> ScottK, you just need to extract a patch?
<\sh> ScottK, apt-get install rpm ; mc ; choose the rpm <enter> voila
<ScottK> mc does that.  Cool.
<\sh> ScottK, the magic is pkg rpm ;) without it, it doesn't extract the cpio ;9
<\sh> zul, anyways..updated the bug report...you can decide to invalid it
<zul> \sh: thanks
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> The magic opensuse solution was "remove klammail as it no longer builds against clamav".  Urgh.  I'd hoped for actual fixing.
<\sh> lol
<ScottK> Even better their patch removed the binary, but left the UI for the now missing function.
<sistpoty|work> yay, I win with the first package in hardy-updates :)
<laga> damn :)
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: I'm not sure that's actually a 'win'.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: depensd if it builds or not.
<ScottK> Yeah.  Particularly in this case.
<sistpoty|work> hm? it is already published actually, so it did build... :)
<DktrKranz2> sistpoty|work: re bug 208666, I'm not suure Debian's binNMUs are synced or rebuilt automatically, so we probably need a manual rebuild.
<sistpoty|work> DktrKranz2: yes... error on my side. the source version is not changed, so nothing to sync. I'll take care once intrepid is open
<DktrKranz2> sistpoty|work: thakns. and congrats to be the first one to populate hardy-updates :p
<sistpoty|work> thanks :)
<DktrKranz2> *thanks
<Kopfgeldjaeger> can i already upload debdiffs to launchpad and subscribe u-u-s? or doesnt it make sense yet?
<cody-somerville> Kopfgeldjaeger, For hardy?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> for intrepid
<cody-somerville> Sure, upload it.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok
<cody-somerville> It won't be uploaded until Intrepid is open but you'll be able to get it reviewed and what not and be able to get it in quick once it is open.
<Hobbsee> assuming the package doesn't need a merge, or further modifications to make it build.
<sistpoty|work> norsetto: I've been playing with libitpp yesterday evening, but I couldn't actually find s.th. which doesn't work with the *old* version. any hints what I could try?
<sistpoty|work> (as I'm looking for a good test case)
<norsetto> sistpoty|work: can't help you there, I have spent days looking for something too without success
<sistpoty|work> ah, k
<Kopfgeldjaeger> how can i make debdiff not show the /tmp directories? i mean, when i debdiff two .dsc's, i get something like this: http://nopaste.com/p/aFY7mefYB
<Kopfgeldjaeger> but of course i only want the path starting from gthumb-2.10.6/...
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i knew the solution some time ago :/ but i've forgotten it
<Hobbsee> Kopfgeldjaeger: cd into the directory which contains the gthumb-* ?
<Hobbsee> whihc appears to be different directories, in your patch
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: Generally, install patch-utils.  If that's not enough, you're working on a native package.
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, so that's the problem.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> yeah. i thought the solution once was to install the package patch-utils and then debdiff behaved the "right" way. but patchutils is installed :/
<Hobbsee> Kopfgeldjaeger: uh, those sources are in 2 different parent directories, in /tmp.
<Hobbsee> Kopfgeldjaeger: it's never oging to wokr if you do that.
<sistpoty|work> Kopfgeldjaeger: hm... this looks like you're trying to debdiff too different upstream versions (at least the dirs indicate that)
<Hobbsee> or otherwise the patch paths are borked
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Yes. So I guess I shouldn't do that?
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: You can't debdiff that.  Just attach the diff.gz, and the sponsor will unroll it (make sure you have a working get-orig-source rule)
<Hobbsee> persia: why can't you?  i've done so before, iirc
<Kopfgeldjaeger> OK. thanks.
<persia> Hobbsee: Well, it works in some rare cases, but it's not guaranteed.  Essentially, debdiff can't handle the sort of changes that are permitted in orig.tar.gz, so it's not recommended to use it.
<persia> I'm not sure how debdiff will handle the new packaging formats, or if we will have to define a special procedure to handle processing patches for each one.
<Hobbsee> hm, right
<Kopfgeldjaeger> persia: Just one question left. Can you give me a link about this get-orig-surce rule?
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: I believe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Examples/ChangingTheOrigTarball is the best in Ubuntu, but the Debian wiki likely has more
<Kopfgeldjaeger> thanks
<CrippledCanary> I need some help.... i found a bug #221973, which is now in hardy-proposed but now i found another bug that just shows when upgrading... should this be addressed to in the SRU?
<ubot5> CrippledCanary: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out
<CrippledCanary> bug #221973
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 221973 in smstools "smstools folder under /var/run isn't recreated after reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221973
<ScottK> CrippledCanary: Is it another bug or does your fix cause a regression?
<CrippledCanary> it's another bug... but it stops the smsd daemon from working when doing an upgrade
<CrippledCanary> a line in the config that before upgrade is ......   # eventhandler = @EVENTHANDLER@
<CrippledCanary> but after upgrade it gets uncommented
<CrippledCanary> doing a clean install of the new version works and the line is commented out
<CrippledCanary> prolly something in postinst
<jdong> Dear Compiz:
<jdong> The bullet point toolbar is *NOT* the main Openoffice Writer window.
<sistpoty|work> CrippledCanary: I guess that should be fixed as well
<jdong> The one you're looking for is the one that occupies 230MB RAM currently.
<jdong> PLEASE don't think I closed openoffice every time the freaking toolbar disapears!
<jdong> Love, John
<sistpoty|work> heh
<jdong> P.S. Do it one more time and I'll go back to LaTeX
<CrippledCanary> sistpoty|work: then someone will need to help me sort it out
<proppy> jdong :)
<ScottK> CrippledCanary: I'd finish your current SRU (as it affects all users and not just upgrades) and then evaluate if another SRU is warranted.
<ScottK> But that's just me.
<sebner> mok0: sistpoty|work: heya. You may also want to add a testimonial. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StefanEbner ^^
<CrippledCanary> ScottK: sounds as a reasonable solution to me to but I wanted to check here first...
<mok0> sebner: sure, I will write something
<sistpoty|work> sebner: lol at the current testimonials
<sebner> hrhr ^^^
<sebner> mok0: thx :)
<sistpoty|work> sebner: must add s.th. from home, I have no clue how to log in to the wiki from work *g*
<mok0> sebner: ah, you're hellboy95? Hehe
<sebner> sistpoty|work: np np np
<sebner> mok0: yeah ^^
<DktrKranz2> CrippledCanary: if it's urgent enough, you can push ubuntu0.2 and go to verification phase with two different test cases
<sebner> DktrKranz2: ah, I was looking for you. please write a testimonial :P
<DktrKranz2> sebner: sure. 150 euros
 * mok0 will abstain from making nasty comments about Austria and pedophiles
<mok0> Ooops
<sebner> rofl
<sebner> DktrKranz2: hrhr. free mind and not free beer. how true this is :P
<DktrKranz2> sebner: I don't like beer :D
<DktrKranz2> even free one
<sebner> dito :)
<\sh> DktrKranz2, free wine -> apt-get install wine ,->
<DktrKranz2> \sh, wine is good, italian one, of course :)
<sistpoty|work> apt-get install gerstensaft :P
<sebner> DktrKranz2: haven't heard good things about italian wine ;)
<sebner> *recently*
<\sh> sistpoty|work, ah the very well known gerstensaft...I remember having gestersaft on every invoice of our drink delivery company during redhat times in stuttgart :)
<\sh> gerstensaft even ;)
<sistpoty|work> heh
<DktrKranz2> sebner: a silly try from french producers
<sistpoty|work> (strange enough /me prefers wheat beer though, but that's not in the archives)
<sebner> DktrKranz2: hm?
<DktrKranz2> only french producers dare say something negative about our wines :P
<sebner> lol
<sebner> DktrKranz2: what about the scandal with chemicals in you wine?
<sebner> *your
<mok0> DktrKranz2: You mean the cheap stuff being sold as expensive wines?
<\sh> guys, I switched from french/italian wine to good red wines from stellenbosch, cape area, ZA :)
<DktrKranz2> mok0: these are french ones, our "brunello" is expensive sold as cheap :P
<\sh> ok...end of business
<\sh> cu later5
<DktrKranz2> sebner: I'm still alive, so... I'm immune to chemical stuffs or no chemical in our wines :)
<sistpoty|work> cya \sh
<sebner> cu \sh
<DktrKranz2> woo-hooo... 3 RC closed in Debian today \o/
<sebner> DktrKranz2: lol. If it doesn't kill you it doesn't mean that that it isn't dangerous ;)
<CrippledCanary> DktrKranz2: It's quite easy to work around so i'll just file another bug and wait.
<CrippledCanary> the old working config gets backed up so the only thing to do is to restore that one
<DktrKranz2> CrippledCanary: ok, then. Subscribe motu-sru when ready. Thanks ;)
<CrippledCanary> what sould i do with the previous SRU bug... just make a comment that I verify the fix (and perhaps give a pointer to the new one)?
<jdong> oh bloody hell wine in backports FTBFSed on all arches
 * jdong looks to see what embarrassing thing he did wrong
<DktrKranz2> let's get someone check it, two or more people are ok, sru-verification is better
<jdong> BFD: /build/buildd/wine-0.9.59/debian/wine-dbgsym/usr/lib/debug/./usr/bin/wine-kthread: section `.note.ABI-tag' can't be allocated in segment 2
<jdong> urr....
<jdong> I swear that didn't happen in my pbuilder
<CrippledCanary> I commented the old bug as fixed verified and the new one is bug  #224241
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 224241 in smstools "smstools stop working after upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224241
<CrippledCanary> Is 224241 SRU worthy at all...? should I subscribe motu-sru?
<ScottK> CrippledCanary: I'd ask a motu-sru member (like DktrKranz2) here what they think.
<jdong> on the face of it, I think any bugfix that would be worth an upload to Intrepid is also worthy of a SRU
<DktrKranz2> CrippledCanary: definitely.
<jdong> CrippledCanary: but pertaining yoru bug specifically, can you please describe exactly how this bug happens?
<jdong> CrippledCanary: how does the .bak file get created? does the upgrade overwrite a config file? try to "upgrade" the existing config file?
<CrippledCanary> postinst creates the .bak file from the original and then creates a new "default" /etc/smsd.conf
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jdong> CrippledCanary: err... postinst unconditionally overwrites the config file and just saves a backup?
<jdong> CrippledCanary: well at any rate, we can "discuss" that "feature" another time, but please do prepare a SRU to fix the default config file :)
<CrippledCanary> jdong: I'll try to... not that good at postinst I'm afraid
<jdong> CrippledCanary: well in this case it looks like the "default" config file is simply malformed
<CrippledCanary> jdong: but it works from a clean install with the same postinst script... strange
<jdong> CrippledCanary: it doesn't feel correct to me that postinst places a dummy config file that's not working by default, regardless of if the user had a previous config file
<CrippledCanary> jdong: Can't agree more but that's how the debian folks have packed it
<jdong> CrippledCanary: agreed, it's not appropriate at a SRU stage to fix that, but if installing the SRU causes configs to break, that's an issue
<jdong> CrippledCanary: see if you can (1) reproduce the bug (2) more concisely state with reference to lines in the postinst script what's going on
<CrippledCanary> jdong: I can reproduce the bug... described how to in the bug report
<jdong> CrippledCanary: ah, ok, you reproduced it.
<jdong> CrippledCanary: well in that case I think this should be combined with the other SRU
<jdong> CrippledCanary: as without it, the other SRU would be a regression.
<jdong> i.e. installing it causes the config file to bork
<jdong> CrippledCanary: I think you should modify postinst so that if it detects an existing smsd.conf, it doesn't try to replace it.
<jdong> probably get DktrKranz2's opinion on the combining of the SRUs too
<CrippledCanary> jdong: should a new SRU be ubuntu0.2 then or just keep adding on to the 0.1 one?
<CrippledCanary> and should I assign it to me while trying to sort it out?
<jdong> CrippledCanary: should be 0.2, since 0.1 is a faulty update
<jdong> CrippledCanary: and yes, you can claim ownership via assignment if you plan on doing it
<CrippledCanary> jdong: I'd guess the best way to learn postinst is to start fixing bugs :)
<ScottK> CrippledCanary: That's the right idea.  Keep at it.
<jdong> :)
<jdong> I think we got ourselves a future MOTU in the making :)
 * jdong whispers to ScottK to lock the doors
<CrippledCanary> shoud I subscribe motu-sru to the new bug as well?
<jdong> CrippledCanary: yeah, once the combined debdiff is available
 * jdong wonders if we should just merge the two bug reports together
<ScottK> jdong: First SRU is already in proposed, so shouldn't he just diff against that?
<jdong> ScottK: same result. Ultimately I want 0.2 to contain both fixes
<jdong> whether he wants to base off 0.1 or start over from -1 I'm fine
<jdong> probably your proposal makes more sense :)
<CrippledCanary> It doesn't matter to me... I just want to use the correct procedures
<CrippledCanary> And perhaps keeping them as separate bugs is more useful if someone from upstream have a look as the first affects only ubuntu and the second prolly both ubuntu and debian
<DktrKranz2> jdong: I think uploading a second SRU against ubuntu0.1 is enough, given that we preserve first fix.
<DktrKranz2> so, once ubuntu0.2 will be copied in -updates, we will ship both SRU fix
<CrippledCanary> DktrKranz2: Ok... new patch against 0.1 and fix both in 0.2
<DktrKranz2> (I'm not an archive-admin, this is just my opinion)
<jdong> CrippledCanary: both should be relevant to Debian, but what's clear to me is 0.1 should NOT go in without 0.2's fixes
<jdong> as currently 0.1 alone would break upgrades
<CrippledCanary> jdong: just doing a version bump to -1 would actually trigger the bug... the 0.1 fix isn't the source
<CrippledCanary> jdong: but agree... both should be fixed
<jdong> CrippledCanary: it isn't the source but it does show up at that point
<CrippledCanary> jdong: yes and prolly upgrade from 7.10 to 8.04 to
<jdong> indeed
<CrippledCanary> what does "db_get" do in a postinst?
<laga> CrippledCanary: it gets a value from debconf
<laga> CrippledCanary: man debconf or man debconf-devel
<laga> for the latter, you probably also need the debconf-docs package
<CrippledCanary> laga: shit, then I have to learn that to :)
<laga> debconf-doc*
<laga> CrippledCanary: debconf is great :)
<CrippledCanary> laga: the debian/config is the file that controls debconf, right?
 * ScottK encourages the hamsters for the PPA buildd to peddle faster.
<cprov> lol
<persia> http://xkcd.com/413/
<Hobbsee> yay, hamsters!
<YokoZar> If a stable release update only affects a specific arch, will a later package version only be released for that arch?
<YokoZar> I'm thinking of https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/224042  -- the 32 bit package should be identical to how it was before
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 224042 in wine "Wine 64 bit does not depend on lib32nss-mdns package; dns lookups broken" [Medium,Confirmed]
<sistpoty|work> YokoZar: it will always get rebuilt for all arches, so it may not be bit-identical
<YokoZar> sistpoty|work: That's what I figured, I'm just sort of wondering if that needs to be the case
<sistpoty|work> YokoZar: for ubuntu it needs to be like that, as there's no way to say you want only one arch rebuilt
<sistpoty|work> (and if there are source changes, you'd always need to rebuild all arches, otherwise source wouldn't match the binary)
<persia> Can't one give-back a specific arch manually?
<persia> Or does that only work when it previously FTBFS?
<LaserJock> YokoZar: ping
<YokoZar> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> YokoZar: did you get MOTU SRU approval for bug #224042?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 224042 in wine "Wine 64 bit does not depend on lib32nss-mdns package; dns lookups broken" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224042
<YokoZar> LaserJock: still waiting on it
<LaserJock> YokoZar: but it's already been uploaded to proposed?
<YokoZar> LaserJock: have I done something really wrong?  I just followed the instructions on the wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<LaserJock> YokoZar: you aren't supposed to upload it until it's been approved
<LaserJock> so it's already going through without any MOTU SRU member looking at it
<LaserJock> YokoZar: so please do wait until MOTU SRU has ack'd it before uploading :-)
<sistpoty|work> persia: once it's published, you cannot give-back s.th. (otherwise we wouldn't need to upload packages for rebuilds)
<YokoZar> LaserJock: :(  I thought uploading to -proposed was how the SRU team looked at the new version of the package.  There's nothing between step 3 and 4 that says to wait for approval, so I naturally thought that came in the -proposed to -updates transition
<LaserJock> YokoZar: yeah, we should probably make that clearer :-)
<LaserJock> gotta run, bbl maybe
<persia> sistpoty|work: Ah.  It's the publish run.  Thanks for the clarification.
<sistpoty|work> persia: I'm not too sure, if it's the publisher run actually (as I don't know lp internals that much)
<sistpoty|work> maybe wgrant would know the details though?
<persia> sistpoty|work: Well, right.  In simple terms, the issue is likely that one can't update a binary package to the same version number.
<DktrKranz2> YokoZar: SRU page is not clear that way, it doesn'tsay developers needs to wait for an ACK before uploading to proposed
<sistpoty|work> persia: yes (which does make some sense... otherwise apt wouldn't draw in the "new" packages... and it sounds awful to me to change s.th. which is already released at a version)
<persia> sistpoty|work: Oh, I agree it'd be ugly.  Be nice if Soyuz grew a function to do binNMU's at the click of a button (for appropriately authorised people: e.g. those who can upload there)
<sistpoty|work> persia: hm, yes, that'd be nice indeed :)
<sebner> persia: you still think new contributors group is open tomorrow? ^^
<persia> sebner: I've had no information on the matter since it was last discussed.
<sebner> grml
<sebner> kk. thx anyway
 * sistpoty|work heads home now... cya
<sebner> sistpoty|work: hf
<ScottK> Any doubts I had about not jumping straight to clamav 0.93 before we released are resolved.
<ScottK> Every single package that build-dep's on libclamav-dev FTBFS against 0.93.
<jcastro> nxvl: ready for your session in ~1 hour?
<nxvl> jcastro: always ready
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> jcastro: i'm just working on the last details
<ScottK> I'd love it if someone would look at the serpentine crashes that are coming in and come up with an SRU to make the bugmail stop.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Dunno if it's something you're interested in or not, but I see some kind of accessibility issue in the last comment for Bug 220475
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 220475 in virtkey "Onboard segfaults on Ubuntu Hardy" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220475
<cyberix> Do you agree with this guy that this is not a bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/221995
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 221995 in rhythmbox "Last.fm plug-in fails to communicate current song to lyrics plug-in and cover art plug-in" [Wishlist,New]
<maco> i dont want to ask this in -devel because its not really related to devel, though theyre probably the ones that could answer best... if im writing a script to download the current source package for the kernel and make a modification that fixes a bug and recompile it, do i need to include for it to compile l-r-m?  The bugfix isn't in a spot related to any restricted modules, but will the fact that its even slightly different have an effect?
<CrippledCanary> does anyone here know where debconf information is stored? i want to make sure they are gone for a package i'm debugging
<crimsun> CrippledCanary: /var/cache/debconf/*.dat
<CrippledCanary> crimsun: thanks
<CrippledCanary> crimsun: is there any tools for cleaning that up
<crimsun> CrippledCanary: I need more info to answer your question adequately.
<crimsun> CrippledCanary: e.g., are you attempting to edit /var/cache/debconf/config.dat by hand, or are you attempting to clean it programatically using a package's postrm?
<CrippledCanary> crimsun: by hand...
<CrippledCanary> cleaning up
<CrippledCanary> i'm working on a SRU here... don't want to change more then necessary so changing postrm is not on the schedule :)
<crimsun> CrippledCanary: ok, I'm lacking context for the SRU.  Which is it?
<crimsun> maco: to address your question from 2:54, please see the ABI checking portion of debian/rules
<CrippledCanary> its bug #224241 which should be combined with bug #224241 to make it through -proposed
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 224241 in smstools "smstools stop working after upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224241
<crimsun> err
<CrippledCanary> sorry bug 221973
<ubot5> CrippledCanary: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out
<CrippledCanary> the bug #221973 made a upgrade bug visible that is addressed in 224241
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 221973 in smstools "smstools folder under /var/run isn't recreated after reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221973
<CrippledCanary> i just attached a debdiff to 224241 and subscribed it to motu-sru
<maco> crimsun: in l-r-m or the kernel one?
<crimsun> maco: linux.
<maco> crimsun: actually, how do i change the abi number? i do want to change it because if i leave it the same, update manager tries to "upgrade" from the new, edited one to the old one
<crimsun> maco: no, you don't want to bump the ABI unnecessarily.  You want to adjust the version number in debian/changelog.
<maco> crimsun: oh. ok...
<maco> crimsun: since it's 16.30, should i make it 16.30.1? im afraid putting .31 would mean that when the next kernel update comes out itll be .31 and i dont know how it would react to that
<crimsun> maco: I would use 2.6.24-16.30+foo
<maco> ok
<crimsun> that sorts before the unextremely unlikely 2.6.24-16.30.1 and thus trivially before 2.6.24-16.31, which is far more likely
<crimsun> ugh
<crimsun> extremely^
<maco> ok
<maco> but it comes after jut plain 16.30?
<crimsun> yes
<maco> ok
<maco> is there a list of what +, -, and ~ (anything else?) do in sorting?
<crimsun> yeah, in Debian Policy
<maco> ok
<crimsun> (http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version)
<crimsun> you can check these by dpkg --compare-versions and checking the exit value
<crimsun> or use &&, etc., etc.
<maco> ok
<crimsun> CrippledCanary: ok, a few comments on the 0.2 debdiff
<crimsun> CrippledCanary: first, the distro should be hardy-proposed.  Second, do you really want to include the commented-out debugging echo?
<CrippledCanary> crimsun: will fix both those things... in a few min
<CrippledCanary> crimsun: a new debdiff is attached
<maco> crimsun: ok so if i just change the version number and i leave the ABI number alone, l-r-m doesn't need to be recompiled, right?
<crimsun> maco: if the ABI in fact does not change, correct.
<crimsun> CrippledCanary: ok, ~motu-sru will process it.
<maco> crimsun: it's this: http://tinyurl.com/5vm3ul  i dont think that changes the ABI
<maco> i could be totally wrong, of course
<CrippledCanary> crimsun: great, thanks for your attention
<crimsun> maco: you're correct; it does not.  Have you filed a bug against linux?
<crimsun> that's a trivial fix.
<maco> crimsun: there's a bug filed, targetted at 8.04.1
<crimsun> good.
<maco> i just figure someone might want 3D in the meantime
<rulus> Hi, I'm using a combination of distutils, pycentral and cdbs to create a package from my Python program. Now, how do I split it up in multiple binary packages? Is there any documentation available in this regard?
<elmargol> someone knows a tool to se what parts of an application uses most of the memory?
<crimsun> rulus: dh_install(1)
<rulus> crimsun: thanks :)
<crimsun> rulus: for an example, see quodlibet source.
<rulus> will do, thanks again
<Kopfgeldjaeger> can i convert a dpatch to a normal patch?
<laga> it's a normal patch. patch should strip the leading "garbage"
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok, thanks
<Kopfgeldjaeger> 16 hunks FAILED. super, that means i may go through a 500 lines patch by hand
<Flare183> ouch
<TheMuso> ScottK: I am aware of that issue, and will be preparing an SRU for that today.
<TheMuso> I filed that bug FWIW.
<ScottK> TheMuso: OK.  I just saw it in bugmail and it seemed up your alley.  I guess so.
<milli> ScottK: Are there DVDs built?
<milli> I'm at Interop this week and I'm seeding all the CD torrents ...
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> They were built before release.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-04-30
<ScottK> http://ubuntu-releases.cs.umn.edu/hardy/ as an example.
<sparr__> this is a bug, no?  /usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d: 274: /sbin/runlevel: not found
<LaserJock> man, I wish these earthquakes would stop :/
<ajmitch> LaserJock: move to NZ, we never have earthquakes here...
<LaserJock> but you have ... new zealanders ;-)
<RAOF> You could come to .au - we don't have earthquakes either, and a lower concentration of new zealander's than NZ :)
<PMantis> Australia?
<ajmitch> RAOF: depends on which suburb you're in :)
<LaserJock> RAOF: sorry, you may not have many new zealanders, but your australian concentration is a bit high ;p
<jdong> ia64 build of iscsitarget 0.4.15-5ubuntu2 in ubuntu intrepid RELEASE
<jdong> oh my god oh my god oh my god!!!1
<jdong> IT SAYS INTREPID!!!!
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> all of my packages have been coming back with FTBFS for lpia
<jdong> nixternal: that's a bug in the hardware then ;-)
<nixternal> heh, rsibreak-kde4 FTBFS ia64 :)
<nixternal> jeesh, I am getting a bunch of Intrepid emails tonight
<gnomefreak> do one of you remember the command to automagicly add the next build to changelog (something like dch -i debian/changelog?
<emgent> :D
<calc> intrepid has been open for a couple days now
<calc> well in the archive, its still frozen aiui
<calc> doko has been uploading toolchain stuf for a while now
<calc> zul: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/intrepid/
<zul> calc: I know I was kidding
<calc> zul: ok :-P
<calc> hmm gta iv released today
<ajmitch> ah, an important release
<ajmitch> but will it run on ubuntu?
<calc> isn't it for consoles? :)
<calc> best solution to get rid of windows, get a console for games :)
<calc> i don't actually like gta just noticed it made the news with a poll asking should violent games be sold
 * ajmitch doesn't tend to play many games
<ajmitch> world of warcraft a bit, but cutting back on that for sanity's sake
<zul> i still like pong
<RoAkSoAx> hi there, anyone around?
<CrippledCanary> jdong: I just subscribed -sponsors on bug #224241
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224241 in smstools "smstools stop working after upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224241
<dholbach> good morning
<LaserJock> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hiya LaserJock
<LaserJock> I guess this means I should be going to be
<LaserJock> ;-)
 * dholbach hugs LaserJock
<ajmitch> hello dholbach, goodbye LaserJock
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<PMantis> HI guys, I have my own repo setup... and I'm using "gpg -abs -o Release.gpg Release" to secure it. However, I get this on apt-get update unless I delete the .gpg file: "Failed to fetch http://domain.com/apt-repo/binary/Release"
<secretlondon> can someone sanity check my bug with a .pc file before I send it to debian?
<secretlondon> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/soundtouch/+bug/214929
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 214929 in soundtouch "soundtouch has problems with its .pc file" [Undecided,New]
<secretlondon> This is half the cause of an audacity bug
<YokoZar> dholbach: did you catch the confusion regarding SRU process yesterday?
<dholbach> YokoZar: no, not really - what was it about?
 * dholbach rushes out to walk the dog for a bit - brb
<\sh> YokoZar, what was it?
<YokoZar> dholbach: \sh: Basically I followed the process on the SRU wiki page and ended up uploading without an ack since it wasn't clear I was supposed to wait for one between step 3 and 4
<YokoZar> I assumed that uploading to -proposed was how the SRU team reviewed proposed updates
<\sh> YokoZar, hmm...
<dholbach> YokoZar: best to ask members of https://launchpad.net/~motu-sru/+members if they can clarify the docs
<laga> i wonder if someone from motu-sru can take a look at bug #220087 and ACK it. it fixes an upgrade problem
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 220087 in mythplugins "Some mythplugins packages fail to configure if /var/lib/mythtv NFS mounted" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220087
<YokoZar> Also I guess it's worth pointing out that I'm not sure what to do now.
<YokoZar> \sh: you've seen the bug right?  Very minimal patch, fortunately.  Also I've tested it to work.
<\sh> YokoZar, tbh, I think there needs to be a review of the docs for SRUs...because I wonder if any member of motu-sru does know everything about special packages...
<\sh> YokoZar, yes...nothing which can break existing wine installations
<coolbhavi> Hello  Can you please point out the errors: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8868/
<\sh> coolbhavi, you still have diff fragments in your control file
<\sh> e.g. <<<<<<< mon-0.99.2-11ubuntu1 (ubuntu)
<\sh> and ====
<\sh> and other stuff
<coolbhavi> How to overcome?
<\sh> coolbhavi, remove it in the right way?
<\sh> following merging documentations :)
 * \sh fights more with bacula
<coolbhavi> means removing lines 9 10 and 11?
<\sh> coolbhavi, dunno...it depends if the package is a merge or not.
<\sh> coolbhavi, if there is an ubuntu change, so it's a merge, you need to follow the DebianMaintainerField guidelines for ubuntu (which you can find on the wiki)
<coolbhavi> I have got the major part of merging into my head but the conflicts part I m not understanding at the moment...:(
<Hobbsee> coolbhavi: differences between ubuntu and debian.  you have to merge them, and keep the bits you want.
<coolbhavi> Hobbsee : I understood that but how to edit control files? I m up with it for past hour but I keep getting same error... :(
<Hobbsee> coolbhavi: ...with a text editor.
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> bacula is missing somehow the drop tables script in /usr/share/bacula-director
<coolbhavi> Hobbsee : yes I know but can you give an example please of a sample control file before changes and after changes in merging?
<Hobbsee> coolbhavi: wouldn't that depend on the changes to the control file?
<Hobbsee> the non-merged is what you have now.
<Hobbsee> the merged looks more like a standard control file, which you'll find in the packaging guide.
<coolbhavi> OK thanks I ll come come back if any doubts are there.. Please bear my questions....
<coolbhavi> OK is this a standard control file? http://paste.ubuntu.com/8874/
<Hobbsee> yes
<coolbhavi> Ok thanks
<coolbhavi> Now is my control file correct? http://paste.ubuntu.com/8878/
<\sh> grmpf...
<Hobbsee> coolbhavi: yes, style-wise, it's correc.t
<Hobbsee> i've no way of knowing whether you picked the right bits to merge.
<coolbhavi> I m following yesterdays session on merging at the Open week...:)
<pochu> so does anyone have a needs-packaging wishlist for a Python application/module?
 * \sh needs to recreate his whole build infrastructure...can somebody do me a favour and fix bacula? :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i have a package that patches the configure file. it adds launchpad-integration to lines like <error: Package requirements: libegnome-something \n>. should i add those lines to all messages like that?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> yes, i should. ok.
<fargiolas> jdong: ping?
<Sveinung> does anyone know when all the packages from Debian will be auto synced to Intrepid?
<mrpouet> hi
<StevenK> Sveinung: Sometime after the toolchain is sorted out
<Sveinung> StevenK: thank you. About how long time do you belive that will take? (days, weeks or months?)
<dholbach> a very few days
<Sveinung> thanks
<sebner> dholbach: heya. any news/progress about the new "contributors" group?
<dholbach> sebner: as far as I can see no blockers, now that the name is sorted out
<james_w> dholbach: have you spoken to sistpoty about co-ordinating the revu-uploaders name change? Or is that decision not final yet?
<sebner> dholbach: kk, just want to join ASAP to start the new development cycle with a new mail adress for the changelogs ^^  Btw do you know where to send the application?
<dholbach> sebner: motu-council@lists.u.c
<dholbach> james_w: no, I didn't talk to him about it yet - it'd be nice if that was sorted out too
<sebner> dholbach: great. thx :)
<dholbach> ROCK :)
<james_w> sebner: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-April/001035.html is an example
<dholbach> make sure you CC your sponsors :)
<sebner> dholbach: kk. I have testimonials on my wiki page ^^ xD xD XD
<sebner> james_w: thx :)
<sebner> dholbach: a good laugh ;) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StefanEbner
<james_w> dholbach: I can speak to him today if he is on. Is the decision at the meeting final? There were no responses to the minutes.
<persia> Lack of objection to the minutes is what makes a decision "final".  Note that such a "final" decision is subject to change from new agenda in a future MOTU Meeting.
<james_w> persia: cool, thanks.
<persia> james_w: Please note that in general, building consensus is preferred to any formal process.  The "formal rules" tend to based on precedent from previous cases where there was confusion or disagreement.
<persia> Wherever possible, it's best to proceed on your best understanding, and engage in discussion if this doesn't match your perception of another's understanding.
<james_w> ok
<persia> For wide-ranging changes that affect a lot of people, I like to have final discussion at a MOTU Meeting, just because that way everyone has time to prepare, and can share their thoughts.  On the other hand, the decision (new for gutsy) to use massive task lists to handle transition bugs was taken without a MOTU Meeting.  It really depends on the subject, and whether there is any controversy or confusion.
<\sh> grmpf...
 * \sh needs a hp tape library somehow
 * ScottK doesn't think the team rename should be done until after someone has a REVU patch to change it to work with the new name.
<james_w> ScottK: that's exactly why I was going to talk to sistpoty
<RainCT> ScottK: dunno what you were talking about but if you want to change the team name I can update REVU if necessary (changing the group name seems like a pretty trivial change)
<ScottK> RainCT: I'm not saying it's easy or hard, just that it needs to be done in a coordinated way (unlike last time where MC broke REVU keyring syncs without even knowing they'd done it).
<pochu> nxvl: I think I'm going to 'repackage' terminator for the Python Packaging session ;)
<pochu> nxvl: it's the perfect candidate as it's simple and uses distutils :)
<RainCT> actually, I think I'm going to move this to REVU's config file..
<pochu> nxvl: do you know where can I find some terminator screenshots online? the link at lp.net/terminator doesn't load...
<CrippledCanary> ScottK and RainCT: I manage to sort out the bug for #224221 :)  .....
<CrippledCanary> had to study some debconf :)
<ScottK> Kewl.
<CrippledCanary> now just waiting for a sponsor upload
<sebner> persia: sended my application :) Awaiting for moderators approval. I have you take that not too serious because my applications is somehow a little bit sloppy ^^
<sebner> *hope
<ScottK> jdong: First Hardy backport from Intrepid is done: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/devscripts/2.10.26ubuntu3~hardy1
<ScottK> FYI: Devscripts that (among other things) has intrepid as the default is backported to hardy-backports and will be available there once it
<ScottK> is built/published
<jdong> ScottK: nice
<ScottK> ... intrepid as default for dch ...
<ScottK> Or not.  It's not depwait.  Built in my pbuilder.  Urgh.
<jdong> haha
<ScottK> jdong: It's libterm-size-perl and the whole main/universe thing again.
 * ScottK gives up on backporting anything in Main until it's fixed.
<jdong> ScottK: grumble, the bug is "fixed" in lp development
<jdong> hopefully it'll be really fixed in the upcoming upgrade
<ScottK> Would you please beat on them and make sure.
 * jdong nods
<ScottK> I guess once that fix gets release it'll un-depwait automatically anyway.
<Mez> \sh, ping
<\sh> Mez, pong
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<Mez> \sh, the new xdebug package is in the NEW queue for debian. Do you want me to build a 0ubuntu1 for intrepid ?
<\sh> Mez, if it's in debian, we can sync it later.
<sebner> heya sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<\sh> intrepid is still frozen for toolchain
<\sh> Mez, but we should watch out for indirect bugs, like php-xdebug + zend-platform == crash ;)
<\sh> or better the other way around
<Mez> \sh ah yes, we have a while yet - I forgot. Though it might be fun as It uses 'xdebug' as the source package
<\sh> Mez, this we can resolve with pitti in a clean way imho
<Mez> \sh, I'm sure it can - but it means more work for SOMEONE
<Mez> by the way do you/the guy who made the ubuntu package have alioth accounts?
<\sh> Mez, I have yes..
<Mez> \sh, what's your alioth account ?
<Mez> (as we're using that + collab-maint for xdebug)
<\sh> Mez, oh damn..wrong question ;) wait .. i'll have to check
<Mez> sh-guest ? :P
<Mez> \sh shermann-guest
<\sh> Mez, yes
<\sh> Mez, but the -guest part I never wanted...
<\sh> but alioth is forcing me to use this :(
<Mez> \sh, yeah - it does unless you're a DD
<\sh> well, imho this will never happen ,-)
<Mez> \sh, why not?
<james_w> hi sistpoty|work
<james_w> sistpoty|work: for the renaming of u-u-c to go ahead do you just require a patch to the source and then co-ordination of the time to rename, or is there something else involved?
<\sh> Mez, I disagree with some of debians ways
<Mez> \sh, care to explain?
<\sh> Mez, wrong place, wrong time
<Mez> \sh, no problem
<sistpoty|work> james_w: it's just patching the code and renaming the team afaik... siretart wanted to take care for that (and iirc split off the keyring handling from revu to a different project when doing so)
<james_w> sistpoty|work: ok, thanks, I'll talk to him about it.
<siretart> ah, right
<siretart> that was as well on my list
<james_w> hi siretart
<siretart> hey james_w
<siretart> sistpoty|work: I notice that the daily keyring sync script has been disabled from revu1's cronjob. do you know if we have another place where the keyring sync is done from?
<siretart> I don't remember disabling it
<sistpoty|work> siretart: nothing on spooky at least
<siretart> ok
<james_w> sistpoty|work: do I remember right that you also requested that the ownership of revu-uploaders be transferred to revu admins?
<sistpoty|work> james_w: yes, either /me or siretart did that... but it's not really a problem if that doesn't happen imo
<siretart> james_w: yes, I requested ownership to be transferred to revu-admins
<siretart> james_w: I requested that because I thought only the owner of a team can rename it. it seems that every administrator (revu-admins is) can do that
<siretart> james_w: so my request isn't that urgent. still, I think that revu-admins is a more appropriate owner than motu-council, but YMMV
<\sh> revu is completely separated from motu, I thought
<siretart> \sh: sort of. revu is a service offered by ubuntuwire for ubuntu developers.
<siretart> sistpoty|work: james_w: team renamed, keyring sync started. seems to work
<sistpoty|work> siretart: woohoo, thanks a lot :)
<james_w> siretart: fantastic, thanks.
<persia> I'd agree that "revu-uploaders" belongs to revu-admins, rather than motu-council.  motu-council may be responsible for a different open team, but that's another issue, for another day.
<siretart> wiki page updated
<siretart> if you find any missing references to ubuntu-universe-contributors, please fix them to mention revu-uploaders!
<sistpoty|work> siretart: did you also update revu trunk?
<siretart> sistpoty|work: sorry?
<siretart> sistpoty|work: no, I didn't commit the change yet
<sistpoty|work> siretart: ah... then I don't need to wonder why I'm not getting a mail *g*
<persia> Should old specs also be updated to reflect the team name change?
<siretart> sistpoty|work: production branch updated
<sistpoty|work> thanks a lot, siretart!
<sistpoty|work> persia: might make some sense, I guess
<sistpoty|work> persia: do you mean the revu2 spec? iirc it's referred to from elsewhere
<sistpoty|work> (so it makes sense to update it)
<persia> OK.  I'm just updating the results from a full text search of the wiki then, excepting meeting logs and personal pages.
<sistpoty|work> thanks persia
<james_w> Thanks persia, you beat me to it.
<persia> I'm unsure about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuTutorialsDay/GetYourWorkIntoKubuntu  Anyone have an opinion?
<james_w> persia: I just added a note at the point where it is mentioned to explain it, do you think that is correct?
<ScottK> What's your question about it?
<sistpoty|work> looks good james_w
<persia> Well, I'm not sure about editing an IRC log.  it feels like editing an old changelog entry.  I think it'd be better to extract the useful content from the log, and put it into a HOWTO somewhere, if that hasn't been done already.
<persia> ScottK: I'm not sure I should s/ubuntu-universe-contributors/revu-uploaders/
<ScottK> Maybe add a footnote at the bottom.
<Hobbsee> bug 8896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 8896 in synaptic "Enable auto-install of packages in recommends field by default, like in aptitude" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8896
<broonie> DktrKranz2: I've actually had one of teh SCons developers offer as well.
<DktrKranz2> broonie: no problem then :)
<DktrKranz2> they know better than me, thanks ;)
<broonie> DktrKranz2: Well, he knows nothing about packaging.
<broonie> DktrKranz2: I'm thinking team maintinance might be best.
<DktrKranz2> sounds good
<broonie> How about I look at uploading your package tonight and put you guys in touch with each other?
<broonie> I do want to give up the package since I'm not enjoying maintaining it at all any more.
<DktrKranz2> broonie: great! I'll be mostly offline due to adsl failure these days, I found a old modem and I can connect from time to time
<DktrKranz2> hope to be back in action soon
<DktrKranz2> can I/we poke you for sponsorship?
<broonie> Yes, of course.
<DktrKranz2> good :)
<DktrKranz2> broonie: I noticed link I gave you is incorrect, do you want the good one?
<broonie> Please.
<DktrKranz2> dsc is here: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/s/scons/scons_0.98.3-1.dsc
<broonie> Could you e-mail it, please?
<DktrKranz2> sure, just a second
<broonie> I'll not look at it until this evening.
<DktrKranz2> done
<\sh> hey jono
<Hobbsee> uh oh, i'ts jono!
 * Hobbsee runs and hides
<jono> hey
<jono> :)
<DktrKranz2> broonie: in case of troubles,  just drop me a line by mail or in IRC and I'll catch it when back online
<\sh> jono, will you attend LT this year after UDS? :)
<jdstrand> hi ScottK
<jdstrand> ScottK: I finally looked at bug 217256 and added a comment recommended moving forward with SRU for dapper
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 217256 in clamav "ClamAV Upack Processing Buffer Overflow Vulnerability" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217256
<jdstrand> ScottK: sorry it took so long-- got *really* busy with hardy release
<jdstrand> leonel: hi! I was just looking at bug #213500
<ubottu> jdstrand: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out
<jdstrand> leonel: can you update your dapper debdiff to update 00list and retest?
<leonel> jdstrand: PLOP  sorry ..   I'll redo de debdiff
<emgent> heya people
<jdstrand> leonel: thanks!
<jdstrand> hi emgent
<emgent> hey jdstrand :)
<leonel> jdstrand: also i'm cooking  another debdiff for bug #217256  for feisty and  gutsy
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 217256 in clamav "ClamAV Upack Processing Buffer Overflow Vulnerability" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217256
<jdstrand> leonel: ok. ping me when ready
<leonel> jdstrand: will do
<sebner> geser: around?
 * \sh heads home
<geser> sebner: yes
<sebner> geser: :). I suppose you attended the MC meeting today? I read the minutes. What does that means now?
<geser> sebner: if we don't reschedule the meeting for sometime later this week, the next meeting will be next wednesday
<sebner> geser: that also means until then *nothing* will be done?
<geser> very likely, perhaps only the team rename
<jdong> [  144.547466] wifi0: FAILED verification of AR5K_PHY_AGCCOARSE_HI default value [found=0x6e (-18) expected=0x6e (-18)].
<jdong> heh.
<geser> sebner: but open applications aren't only processed during the meeting. during the meeting we only look which ones are still open.
<jdong> I don't know what that means, but it sure doesn't speak too highly of madwifi...
<sistpoty|work> well, there's a difference between 0x6e and 0x6e... probably a very subtle one *g*
<jdong> :)
<sebner> geser: ok. thanks
<geser> sebner: as your application is on the MC radar, we won't ignore you for to long :)
<sebner> geser: ah. you already noticed ^^
 * sistpoty|work heads home
<sistpoty|work> cya
<leonel> jdstrand: done the debdiff for  bug 213500
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 213500 in clamav "heap corruption before 0.92.1" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213500
<jdstrand> leonel: thanks-- and you tested it too? (the bug just said the debdiff was updated)
<leonel> jdstrand: there's a build error  fixing it
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<wasabi> So... probably a simple problem on my part; genchanges is saying it cannot read the files list file: No such file or directory.  Probably just a missing file I didn't create, but I can't figure out which one.
<wasabi> Basic packaging help. ^
<LaserJock> sebner: are you subscribed to motu-council?
<ScottK> jdstrand: I'm back now.
<ScottK> jdstrand and leonel: My preferred solution for Dapper is to copy clamav from dapper-backports to dapper-updates/-security.  That'll be one less variant we have to make patches for in the future.
<jdstrand> ScottK: understood, and I expressed my opinion on that in the bug
<ScottK> So I guess I need to harass an archive admin then?
<jdstrand> ScottK: looking at the code, IMO it will need full SRU, but at least it'll be the last time
 * jdstrand nods
<ScottK> OK.
<jdstrand> ScottK: but I didn't do the testing
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> Testing is mostly use it and see it not break.
<ScottK> The security hole is known fixed in 0.92.1, so that's not at issue.
<leonel> ScottK: jdstrand  not to be lazy from me  but   agree with ScottK's  solution
<jdstrand> leonel: I agree too
<jdstrand> it just isn't in there *yet*
<ScottK> leonel: In the scheme of things, I'd suggest focus your patching on feisty/gutsy if you have to pick.
<ScottK> pitti did the last clamav pocket shuffling, so I'll ask him on Friday.
<leileilol> think there's a chance for libmodplug to be updated to the latest working version?
<leileilol> the current one in the repositories is a bit old and doesn't sound as good as the latest
<leileilol> although xmms is depreciated, there is one game I know of that uses libmodplug
<leileilol> (nexuiz)
<ScottK> leileilol: For Intrepid, yes.  After that maybe a Hardy backport.
<leonel> ScottK: working on
<ScottK> K
<leileilol> the libmodplug in ubuntu has a problem with patterns in audacious, like makes the first pattern plays twice
<leileilol> and then ends the song abruptly
<mysterycool> Hello.
<mysterycool> I am interested in requesting a mentor to guide me through in order to become a MOTU. I will write an email in a bit and im wondering if u could plz tell me when i'll most probably get a response from a mentor.
<james_w> mysterycool: there are a few people waiting for mentors at the moment, so you will probably join a queue of people I'm afraid.
<james_w> you can start working without one though, so don't let it stop you
<mysterycool> hmm, k, then I think ill get working around with packaging stuff and maybe request one in a while or so =]
<james_w> and any contributions you can make beforehand will probably make you more appealing to invest time iin as your commitment will be more clear.
<RoAkSoAx> hi there, to start merging (for this new development cycle) i should be in intrepid right??
<cyberix> Does Ubuntu Wine team have an irc channel?
<james_w> RoAkSoAx: you mean running intrepid?
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> RoAkSoAx, not even hardcore devs would do that in the next four weeks :)
<ogra> as soon as the merging starts intrepid will eat your children
<james_w> cyberix: I don't think so, they just discuss things here.
<RoAkSoAx> james_w, yes... to do merges... or can i create a pbuilder enviroment for intrepid un my Hardy installation?
<ogra> there ill be a debootstrap in hardy-updates that will support building chroots/pbuilder for intrepid on hardy
<james_w> RoAkSoAx: yup, you can. That's the way most people will do it for a while
<james_w> pbuilder/debootstrap/vm etc. at least
<RoAkSoAx> james_w, so do i just to this?: sudo pbuilder create --distribution intrepid --othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid universe multiverse"
<ogra> but give it still some days, the toolchan is just being built
<james_w> RoAkSoAx: yep, I think that's right, but as ogra says give it a few days.
<RoAkSoAx> ok, because after doing that i have this error: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9012/
<ogra> you cant do that yet
<ogra> there is no intrepid
<ogra> only if the toolcain has built and someone pushed a new debootstrap to hardy-updates
<ogra> dont bother to try before
<RoAkSoAx> oh ok, thanks ;)
<ogra> someone will surely yell in #ubuntu-devel or put it in the channel topic if you can
<ffm> How do I get a debdiff I made accepted?
<james_w> ffm: you should subscribe the sponsors team, then someone will review it and upload if it is ready
<ffm> james_w: Ok. Should I put that I fixed a bug in the changelog of the debdiff? (and if so, can I just edit the diff file instead of going through the process all over again?
<james_w> ffm: yes and possibly, though editing a diff can make it not apply properly
<james_w> if you simply edit a line you are safe, but adding a new line means you need to tweak the numbers at the top of the hunk
<ffm> james_w: Thanks.
<Son26> hi ;)
<james_w> hi
<Son26> what this?
<james_w> Son26: you can find out more about what we do at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<Son26> what this? page?
<Son26> hw?
<Son26> james_w: No!
<laga> ?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> can i unsubscribe someone else from a bug?
<slangasek> Kopfgeldjaeger: no, you need a launchpad admin for that
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok. if i upload a new package, should i upload *.dsc, *.diff.gz and *.orig.tar.gz? or link to the orig file? or create a get-orig-source rule?
<Mez> wow, this rules file is fun
<Mez> mkdir  etc/etc/etc/etc/etc
<Mez> cp etc etc/etc/etc/et
<Mez> over and over again
<slangasek> Mez: bwuh?
<Mez> slangasek, the package I'm making
<Mez> It basically just copies files to the right paths for the respective packages
<RainCT> Mez: why don't you just use dh_install?
<Mez> RainCT, I might... dunno yet
<slangasek> Mez: so you don't mean "etc/etc/etc/etc/etc" literally...? :)
<Mez> slangasek, nope
<Mez> lol
<slangasek> ok, that's what was frightening me
<norsetto> LaserJock: can you pls. check bug 221399 and eventually ack it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221399 in rkward "Not working in hardy x64" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221399
<LaserJock> norsetto: k
<norsetto> LaserJock: thx
<Jazzva> Should I subscribe motu-sru and prepare sru bug report for bug 219303 in order to include this fix in 8.04.1?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 219303 in gnome-voice-control "Problem with OAFIID:GNOME_VoiceControlApplet while adding VoiceControl to GNOME Panel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219303
<norsetto> Jazzva: since you need sponsoring, and u-u-s is already subscribed, you may as well wait for it
<norsetto> Jazzva: your sponsor should help you with the sru too
<Jazzva> norsetto: Thanks...
<Jazzva> Just wanted to check if everything is ok. I would like if this fix could be included :).
<norsetto> jazzva: couldn't keep you away from ubuntu too long eh ;-)
<Jazzva> norsetto: Naah :). I think I managed to do both Ubuntu and school work...
<norsetto> jazzva: when you say "Re-apply changes from 0.2-0ubuntu2" is that because of an incorrect sync/merge?
<norsetto> jazzva: ops, its 0.2-0ubuntu2, so, this cannot be
<norsetto> jazzva: so, do you know why these changes were removed?
<Jazzva> norsetto: Right ... Some of the changes were lost between 0ubuntu3 and 0ubuntu5 (I think). I don't know why they were removed, but it wasn't documented. It might be due to the bad build system. The build system deletes some of the needed files on the dist-clean, that needs to be fixed upstream.
<norsetto> jazzva: ah, so there is no patch system being used ... good
<Jazzva> Some of the build files were changed before, but those changes were lost somewhere between ubuntu3 and 5.
<Jazzva> norsetto: No patch system for now. I'm planning to set up one, when we include 0.3. Most of the changes were made to the build system.
 * norsetto curses against people not using a patch system
 * Jazzva hides
<norsetto> jazzva: ok, so, do you know why was that automake change made in the first place?
<Jazzva> norsetto: Yes. It deleted gnome-doc-utils.make file in dist-clean, which is needed in the build process.
<norsetto> jazzva: that would be the DISTCLEANFILES change, not the addition of the automake call?
<Jazzva> norsetto: automake call was removed. It might be the source of this, too...
<norsetto> jazzva: ah, you only change the in/am, why not changing directly the Makefile then
<LaserJock> norsetto: do you have any idea wbout these lockups in rkward?
<norsetto> jazzva: just automake on another tree with the DISTCLEANFILES change and diff it to the Makefile
<norsetto> LaserJock: no idea
<norsetto> LaserJock: but the change is relatively heavy
<norsetto> LaserJock: its an upstream change, I have seen no refs in ubuntu nor debian bts
<LaserJock> norsetto: I think the version should be maybe 0.4.9-2build1
<norsetto> LaserJock: for an sru!?
<LaserJock> or 0.4.9-2ubuntu0.1
<LaserJock> I don't think a build1 is going to be a problem
<norsetto> LaserJock: I'm ok with it, I'll change before uploading
<Jazzva> norsetto: Hmm, Makefile is made in the build process, and then removed in the cleaning process...
<norsetto> jazzva: ah
<Jazzva> (just checked)
<norsetto> jazzva: you got an upstream with a serious case of cleansing frenzy :-)
<norsetto> jazzva: so, you do need to automake anyway
<LaserJock> norsetto: it looks to me that according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures#Prepare it should be 0.4.9-2ubuntu0.1
<norsetto> jazzva: no wait, that could also be done during the configure step
<norsetto> LaserJock: checking
<LaserJock> although they don't specifically mention rebuilds, my guess is that we should treat them as any other upload
<Jazzva> norsetto: yep. automake would produce Makefile.in, which was provided by the upstream.
<norsetto> LaserJock: ok, will go for 0.4.9-2ubuntu0.1
<Jazzva> norsetto: Anyway, I'm hoping this will be fixed for 0.3, so all of this dirty fixes can be forgotten :).
<norsetto> jazzva: yes, I hope too :-)
<norsetto> jazzva: anyway, I don't get why the automake change was made, you say there is no ftbfs now, correct?
<Jazzva> norsetto: You mean the removal of automake call from configure?
<norsetto> jazzva: from rules
<Jazzva> right.
<LaserJock> norsetto: ok ack'd and I also added a bug watch for the Debian bug so we remember to make sure we get this fixed in Intrepid
<norsetto> LaserJock: err, we will sync and then build with R 2.7.0
<Jazzva> norsetto: afaik, this would produce new Makefile.in, which then produces an unusable applet. It builds, but it fails to start. I think that was the problem.
<RainCT> good night
<norsetto> night rainct
<LaserJock> norsetto: we *assume* we'll sync ;-)
<norsetto> LaserJock: its an autosync
<azeem> persia: are you running pidgin?
<LaserJock> norsetto: I know, I just don't trust it until I see it :-)
<persia> azeem: Yes, why?
<norsetto> laserjock: ok ... thx for your swift help btw
<azeem> persia: you changed the /topic last, and it has a weird UTF8 char at the beginning
<azeem> persia: looks like a pidgin feature/bug to me, I saw it with other pidgin people in other chans
<persia> azeem: It's a 0-byte space, not shown in pidgin.  Comes from oddities in copy/paste.  Depending on various factors, there can be a few oddities transmitted.
<persia> If you don't mind, please clean the topic :)
<Jazzva> norsetto: Right, automake call doesn't produce any wrong change. It did before, since it made .am from unpatched .in. Anyway, it's not needed, as the .am file is provided by the upstream.
<azeem> easier said than done, it freaks out my irssi/screen/terminal combination :)
<laga> azeem: interesting. works fine for me (ubuntu dapper)
* azeem changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | 8.04 is released: Let's fix any SRU-worthy bugs before the users try the package.
<azeem> persia: well, it's just a matter of time till the next pidgin user changes it again
<persia> azeem: Maybe.  On the other hand, last fall I did >80% of the topic changes, and didn't hit it.  It depends on how the copy & paste is done.  I'll check in a less robust display environment next time I change it.
<norsetto> jazzva: ok, can you please mention this in the changelog? Also, the version number should be changed for an sru and it should be hardy-proposed not hardy
<sebner> good night folks :)
<Jazzva> norsetto: Sure thing. SRU version is XubuntuY.1?
<norsetto> jazzva: yes
<Kopfgeldjaeger> n8
<Jazzva> norsetto: Done. Thanks for your help :).
<norsetto> jazzva: de nada
<norsetto> jazzva: glad to see you back ;-)
<Jazzva> norsetto: glad to be back :)
<Jazzva> *good
 * norsetto goes to bed
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-01
<ScottK> nxvl: Down for upgrade.
 * ajmitch wonders if he's seeing a cached page
<ScottK> nxvl: Would you please look at the tinyerp-server package in Debian and see if there is anything that could usefully be contributed from the changes we made in Hardy?
<nxvl> ScottK: you mean to merge it? or to send our patches back to debian?
<ScottK> Send our patches back to Debian.
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> i will take a look
<ScottK> I'd hope we could manage a sync in a but.
<ScottK> THanks.  They did some of the changes, but it's not clear from debian/changelog if they have them all or useful alternatives to the same problem.
<jumpkick> allow me to ask a very stupid question
<jumpkick> why is it that the AMD64 kernel in Hardy LTS ships with no sound drivers at all?
<ScottK> !ask | jumpkick
<ubottu> jumpkick: Please don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-)
<ScottK> I going to guess that there's an error in your assumptions embedded in that question.
<jumpkick> ged@quadcore:/lib/modules/2.6.24-16-generic$ find . | grep snd
<jumpkick> ged@quadcore:/lib/modules/2.6.24-16-generic$
<nxvl> i will work on that
<nxvl> asdas
<jumpkick> ï»¿asdas?
<nxvl> i lose my conection and i was testing if i got keyborad response
<nxvl> i'm conected by ssh to an irssi
<ScottK> nxvl: Thanks.
<StevenK> nxvl: You don't need to hit enter ... :-P
<ajmitch> sure he does
<nxvl> StevenK: i wasn't having any response
<jumpkick> so I guess I should go and log a bug on launchpad then, eh
<ScottK> jumpkick: Not right now.  It's down.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<nxvl> StevenK: i don't even know how i type asdas if i lose conection
<ScottK> I'm guessing if you ask on #ubuntu-kernel where the sound drivers are, someone might better answer there.
 * ajmitch pokes his isp
<ajmitch> someone made a slight screwup with routing there :)
 * ScottK reads http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/pr/2008-04/sunflash.20080430.1.xml and looks for the bit where it talks about "Our Debian packaging wasn't quite so great, but thanks to the volunteers that helped us out."
<ajmitch> ScottK: sorry, this is corporate PR
 * ScottK knows.  Just having fun with it.  
<ajmitch> you? cynical?
 * ScottK vaguely recalls that coming up before.
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, so what should i do next. should i first report the bug en LP and then use the sync Script?
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: nop, the sync script on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess reports the bug
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: you just need to run the script, it will ask you all the information needed for the bug report
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, ok so it would be like this??: requestysync -s abuse-frabs_2.11-1 intrepid 2.10-7
<RoAkSoAx> or requestysync -s abuse-frabs_2.11-1 intrepid abuse-frabs_2.10-7
<nxvl> mmm
 * nxvl man's
<RoAkSoAx> requestsync*
<nxvl> requestsync -s abuse-frabs intrepid 2.10-7
<nxvl> ScottK: RoAkSoAx is also a member of Peruvian LoCo Council, he is starting on this packaging world
<nxvl> sco	so please help him as you did with me 6 months ago :D
<nxvl> ScottK: so please help him as you did with me 6 months ago :D
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: ScottK is a really helpful person, a little grumpy, but not less lovely
<nxvl> :D
 * nxvl HUGS ScottK 
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<RoAkSoAx> yep i need some help to report my firsst sync :)
<TheMuso> Intrepid is not open yet.
<TheMuso> In terms of free to upload.
<nxvl> TheMuso: it isn't?
<TheMuso> nxvl: No.
<TheMuso> The toolchain is still being worked on.
<nxvl> TheMuso: mmm
<nxvl> TheMuso: but we can start reporting bugs for intrepid
<TheMuso> nxvl: I guess you could, but then you would have to make sure they are not missed when things get going.
<TheMuso> Because once its open, things will happen very quickly for a while.
<nxvl> TheMuso: just as for hardy
<nxvl> :D
<ajmitch> I'm sure there are plenty of hardy bugs that can still be worked on :)
 * ScottK went through and requested sync for all the packages he touched last than are, in fact, a sync now.
<ScottK> SRUs are a good thing to work on.  Agreed.
 * ajmitch hasn't touched any packages for so long that it's not an issue
<ScottK> Someone please go fix serpentine.
<ajmitch> what's broken with it?
<nxvl> ScottK: yes, but not for a begginer
<ScottK> Lots of crash bugs annoying my inbox.
<ScottK> nxvl: True.
 * TheMuso would process SRUs now if it weren't for LP.
<nxvl> that's why i'm helping RoAkSoAx on merging and syncing while working on SRU and reporting back to debian
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> and do some merge fun also
<nxvl> :D
 * TheMuso does a double take. I just got a build email from launchpad...
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Do you know any Python?
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, nope :(
<StevenK> TheMuso: Build failure, or build?
<TheMuso> StevenK: build falure
<TheMuso> failure
<TheMuso> hppa packages in intrepid.
<RoAkSoAx> but i could learn =)
<StevenK> TheMuso: I've been getting a few, too. If they failed in hardy, the machinery creates new records for the new release.
<nxvl> do we support hppa?
<nxvl> not officialy, doesn't it?
<StevenK> #define we?
 * bddebian doesn't :)
<nxvl> we as in ubuntu
<TheMuso> nxvl: Same as other community architectures, ia64, sparc, powerpc.
<TheMuso> The ones that are more common get more attentino.
<TheMuso> attention
<nxvl> TheMuso: so, we support it, but not oficialy?
<TheMuso> nxvl: It is supported by the community.
<nxvl> so, yes
 * nxvl HUGS TheMuso 
<sparr__> archive.ubuntu.com is down?
<StevenK> sparr__: Looks fine to me
<sparr__> i am [Connecting to us.archive.ubuntu.com (91.189.88.37)] and/or [Waiting for headers] for minutes at a time
<bddebian> It seems to be VERY busy
<ajmitch> bddebian: get in there & pedal harder?
<bddebian> heh
<LucidFox> When is intrepid scheduled to be unfrozen?
<StevenK> LucidFox: Soon.
<TheMuso> When its ready.
<LaserJock> RSN!
<ajmitch> LucidFox: as soon as LaserJock unleashes the ponies
<LaserJock> heh
<ajmitch> shiny, golden ponies
<LaserJock> sadly, I don't think there are gonna be any ponies this time
<ajmitch> that's unfortunate
<LaserJock> it is
<LaserJock> I guess I could run a pony contest and take contributions from the community
<ajmitch> it could work, I guess
<LaserJock> I just can't in any real sense adequately cover the community
<LaserJock> plus I don't watch movies anymore
<LaserJock> which makes it harder to think of creative things to use ;-)
<Amaranth> The ponies have to be pink or the deal is off
<Amaranth> debhelper 7 looks interesting
<LucidFox> debhelper 7? Blimey, they're fast
<LucidFox> I haven't even got used to debhelper 6 yet
<StevenK> debhelper 7 does look interesting
<RAOF> Ooh, what's new?  And interesting :)
<StevenK> RAOF: A dh command
 * RAOF wonders what dh_command would do
<StevenK> No underscore
<StevenK> 'dh'
<StevenK> Allows you to do:
<StevenK> %:
<StevenK> <tab>dh
<RAOF> Aaah.  Yes, cool.
 * StevenK wonders how to debug a SEGV inside gtk_main
<StevenK> I'm guessing it's one of what has been set up before calling gtk_main(), but how to figure that out ...
<RAOF> The backtrace presumably doesn't contain an obvious null pointer?
<StevenK> The backtrace doesn't look very helpful at all
<StevenK> Including this gem: Backtrace stopped: frame did not save the PC
<RAOF> Yay memory corruption.
<StevenK> Either that or stack smashing. Since the backtrace doesn't look like complete garbage, I'll go with memory corruption
<RAOF> Actually, you could crash in gtk_main() in any number of ways, right?
<RAOF> I mean, the program never _exits_ gtk_main, once it's been called.
<StevenK> Well, you leave it when you call a callback that exits ...
<dudus> Question: Every time there is a series file inside debian folder it means the packages uses quilt as patch system?
<LaserJock> dudus: I don't know, but the easiest way to tell is to look at the debian/control file and see if quilt is a build dependency
<dudus> LaserJock: indeed quilt is a dependency, thanks a bunch ;)
 * LaserJock puts the flamesuit on :-)
 * StevenK kicks strace for being useless
<lifeless> useless seems rather... harsh
<StevenK> munmap()x4 and the SEGV
<StevenK> And gdb seems unhelpful too
<RAOF> gdb still thinking argc resides at 0x00000000?
<lifeless> rebuild without -fomit-frame-pointer?
<lifeless> and/or try valgrind
<lifeless> valgrind is awesome
<StevenK> It isn't built with -fomit-frame-pointer currently
<lifeless> *blink*
<StevenK> So something strange is going on, but I don't know what.
<StevenK> And gdb is having trouble reading the source
<StevenK> (gdb) p argc
<StevenK> Cannot access memory at address 0x0
<StevenK> That is soooo odd
 * StevenK installs valgrind
<StevenK> lifeless: So how I do read this?
<StevenK> That gives me a nicer stacktrace, but it's all in libgtk
<_ruben> is the (source) package for open-vm-tools still hiding in some attic or have all traces been evaporated?
<progfou> _ruben, still some traces here: http://packages.debian.org/open-vm-tools
<_ruben> progfou: that i had found, was wondering if there was an ubuntu version still avail somewhere .. seems the debian version has the gui as well, which idont want
<geser> _ruben: you can get it from LP directly
<geser> _ruben: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/open-vm-tools/+publishinghistory and then select the version you are interested in and you will find the .dsc, .diff.gz and .orig.tar.gz for download
<_ruben> ah sweet .. lets look into that
<CrippledCanary> where should i go to get a sponsored upload done?
<CrippledCanary> Bug #224241
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224241 in smstools "smstools stop working after upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224241
<uvok> hello
<uvok> i made myself a local repositry (with dpkg-scanpackages) to install debs created out of self-compiled sourcecodes. But there's a little problem: synaptic wants to update some packages (those build with dpkg-buildpackage) again and again. (Packages built with checkinstall are not concerned) What can I do to avoid this?
 * persia seeks comment/review for https://launchpad.net/~universe-contributors : Any suggestions on language changes or corrections to team name spelling appreciated.
<persia> uvok: Are you signing your packages?  You may want to add your key to the trusted archive keys for your system.
<persia> On the other hand, I remember others encountering this issue, and don't remember the specific solution.
<wgrant> persia: Shouldn't it be ubuntu-?
<persia> wgrant: Not according to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003716.html (unless I'm reading it incorrectly)
<james_w> uvok: it will do that if the package metadata doesn't match what you have installed, perhaps you need to run -scanpackages again.
<uvok> ï»¿ï»¿persia: No, synaptic says they're not signed....
<uvok> ï»¿james_w: I already ran it again, but it didn't help
<persia> uvok: In that case, you may want to sign them.  I seem to remember that trusted packages are preferred over untrusted packages, but I've not dug into the apt code at that level for a long time now.
<elmargol> Someone knows if gtk has a horizontal separator wich supports fading to the side? like the google reader does?
<elmargol> Hide a part, and if I click it shows it again
<uvok> persia: I wonder about following: apt-cache policy says:
<uvok>      0.1.10-4.uvok 0
<uvok>         500 file: ./ Packages
<uvok>  *** 0.1.10-4.uvok 0
<uvok>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<wgrant> persia: We really should keep to our proper namespace...
<persia> wgrant: That makes sense.  On the other hand, given the arguments about the name so far, I'm really not tempted to change it without some form of documented consensus.
<uvok> the version number is the same.... but i will try signing the packages
<james_w> wgrant: it would also directly clash with the old name for revu-uploaders then.
<james_w> I would support renaming it in a few months, as I think keeping to ubuntu- would be a good thing.
<persia> james_w: I'd actually be more against renaming it in a few months than I am now.  Later, there will likely be members, who may have some identity associated with the name.
<james_w> fair point.
<progfou> uvok, the version is the same but the priority is different, and the current installed packages even has no corresponding source (only found in dpkg list), so it will try to install the one with higher priority (500)
<uvok> ï»¿progfou: so I should change the priority of the local rep?
<progfou> uvok, you should read about APT priority management, it's in the "apt_preferences" man page
<uvok> ï»¿progfou: okay, thanks, i'll read it
<mysterycool> Hello.
<mysterycool> How can I get in the team of developing the actual OS of ubuntu?
<mysterycool> I mean, the MOTU is mostly for packages, right? How can I get involved into the team which actually designs the OS?
<ScottK> jdong: The devscripts backport built, so it looks like the latest Launchpad upgrade removed the misfeature.
<james_w> mysterycool: yes, MOTU is mostly about packages, but you can also help develop software. What do you mean by "designs the OS"?
<ScottK> mysterycool: That depends a lot on what you mean by "OS"
<mysterycool> well, Linux distros always use the linux kernel but like the development of how the ubuntu itself works. not the packages.
<james_w> mysterycool: the packages are what makes up the OS, so they define how it works.
<ScottK> Intrepid devscripts (where dch defaults to Intrepid) is available in hardy-backports
<ScottK> mysterycool: It's packages all the way down.
<mysterycool> exactly, but like, who set the gnome working for ubuntu?
<mysterycool> i mean that stuff.
<AnAnt> Hello, I got a problem with a java package
<AnAnt> when I build it using pbuilder it behaves in different manner than when build using dpkg-buildpackage !
<ScottK> Parts of Gnome are in Main and parts are in Universe.  MOTU works on the Universe part.
<james_w> mysterycool: well, if you want to change the way gnome works then it is best to work upstream on gnome, but if you want to make it integrate better then changing the packages can do that.
<ScottK> There is a desktop team that focuses on Gnome.
<james_w> AnAnt: what's the difference? It's probably due to different build-dependencies being used.
<mysterycool> hmm, k. scottk: whats the desktop team that focuses on Gnome and where can I contact them?
<progfou> ScottK, does it mean Intrepid should be unfrozen soon in the PPA or is it unrelated (devscripts)
<AnAnt> james_w: it has that search feature, when I use it , I get wierd looking ??? characters in search results
<ScottK> progfou: Unrelated
<james_w> mysterycool: ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com is their mailing list
<ScottK> mysterycool: I suspect it would be #ubuntu-desktop, but I neither use nore develop for Gnome stuff so I've no actual knowledge on the matter.
<james_w> AnAnt: is it using a different java runtime? Compare the dependencies of the built packages.
<mysterycool> james_w: can i find info on them on the gnome website?
<james_w> mysterycool: I don't think so, they're an Ubuntu group
<AnAnt> james_w: ok
<uvok> hmmm..... although the packages were signed, and i added my signing key to synaptic-preferences/authentification it still says that the packages are not authenticated...
<progfou> uvok, there is two level of signatures => packages signature, for uploading validation and repository signature, for download validation
<uvok> ï»¿progfou: how can I sign the repositry?
<progfou> uvok, you may want to check at my script here: http://apt.hanoilug.org/ubuntu/hanoilug.org-update+sign.sh
<AnAnt> james_w: building using openjdk
<AnAnt> james_w: I tried both openjdk & sun-java6 for runtime
<progfou> it's probably not "The Right Way"â¢, but it's lighter than reprepro/dinstall and enough for our (HanoiLUG) needs now
<progfou> uvok, you can use my hack, but if you want a better way I would recommend you to use "reprepro", a great tool to manage a repository
<uvok> ï»¿progfou: where does tmpfile comes from?
<progfou> uvok, or just activate and use your PPA on launchpad.net ;-) it's what I'm considering now, to help in letting some of our packages enter Universe
<progfou> $ dpkg -S tempfile => debianutils: /bin/tempfile
<geser> AnAnt: have you compared the used locale?
<AnAnt> geser: compared it where ?
<geser> the one used inside pbuilder and the one used in your environment
<AnAnt> how to compare the locale ?
<AnAnt> oh
<geser> check the output from locale
<AnAnt> geser: different
<uvok> ï»¿progfou: still doesn't work... think i'll try reprepro... (bw: i donÃ't have a ï»¿PPA on launchpad.net :)
<AnAnt> geser: pbuilder: LC_CTYPE="C", LANGUAGE=en_US:en, LANG=C
<AnAnt> geser: my env: LANG=en_CA.UTF-8 , LC_CTYPE="en_CA.UTF-8"
<geser> AnAnt: are the ? you are seeing some accented characters?
<progfou> uvok, (PPA) then just open one! :) it's free, easy and will let you approch the real Debian/Ubuntu package upload process, see there: https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
<AnAnt> geser: they are supposed to be nothing ! ie. they are extra characters
<uvok> ï»¿progfou: Are the packages published then? I actually only want to have the packages for my own
<geser> hmm
<progfou> yep, they are published, and they needed to be under some Copyleft license too...
<uvok> ï»¿progfou: I
<uvok> 'm not so sure if thats a solution for me..
<progfou> uvok, it's your decision :)
<uvok> ï»¿progfou: I#M especilly unsure about "You understand and agree that any content you upload to PPAs must be freely redistributable by Canonical, and released under a license permitting redistribution free of charge"
<uvok> I'm not so sure if this applies to all the packages...
<progfou> any content => everything you'll upload into the PPA
<progfou> if you don't want something to be publicly accessible then just don't upload it in the PPA
<progfou> and if you want a single solution for all your packages, public and privates one, just use reprepro instead ;-)
<progfou> reprepro is not to hard to use but not that easy too, it will take you some time to put things correctly, how long depend on your current background knowledge about repository management...
<persia> progfou: It's not only about the uploaders intent, but also about the licensing of any code that might be included in the package.  Were it only that I would be fine with people redistributing stuff, there's lots of things I could upload to a PPA.
<uvok> ï»¿persia: my repo has no sub-direcories (like dist + pool). the debs are all in 1 dir. can I use reprepre anyway?
<persia> uvok: No idea.  I've never tried reprepro.
<geser> uvok: iirc you just tell repropro that you want to include a specific deb and it will copy it to the correct location (and update all files)
<uvok> I'm trying to read the manpage of reprepro... but yelp doesn't find it, although ther is a manpage (But I don't like reading mans in the terminal....)
<ikonia> What part of the ubuntu package controlls the description of the package displayed by the package manager ?
<ikonia> controls even
<ikonia> I thought it was read from the description field of the spec file
<james_w> the control file, but yes.
<ikonia> ah, thank you
<Riddell> any motu about for a quick test?
<uvok> ï»¿persia: Okay, reprepro seems to work... but theres another problem: the packages produces with checkinstall have an empty depends field, and apt-get update complains about it....
<uvok> Is there a way to remove the empty "depends" lines?
<progfou> uvok, you may use dh_make (in the "dh-make" package) instead of checkinstall
<progfou> it's a bit more lowlevel, but... you have more control over things
<uvok> ï»¿progfou: I would like to. But it fails with some programs where checkinstall works....
<uvok> This is going to be more difficult than i thought....#
<progfou> I would say dh_make itself can't fail doing its job, but it's true that you have to do your part with this one
<progfou> uvok, did you see the Packaging Guide? it contains a lot of usefull information about how to do it "The Right Way"â¢ => https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/
<uvok> thanks, i'll have a look at it
<uvok> the exact error message is:
<uvok> E: Problem parsing dependency Depends
<uvok> E: Error occurred while processing deluge-torrent (NewVersion1)
<uvok> E: Problem with MergeList /var/lib/apt/lists/_home_andreas_Desktop_localrepo_dists_localrep_all_binary-i386_Packages
<uvok> E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened.
<uvok> it seems I have to edit the package-file manually....
<uvok> I already found out that I can put the file into sed and let remove all Lines including depends.... but there are also lines *with* depends removed...
<progfou> uvok, then just use a more precise sed line, like this one: sed -i '/^Depends:[[:space:]]*$/d' control
<afflux> do you think bug 199600 is suitable for a SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 199600 in aptoncd "aptoncd crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199600
<uvok> ï»¿progfou: thanks, I'll try out this
<uvok> I think it's best if I write a script that executes all these commands....
<uvok> I can't remember them all
<uvok> ï»¿progfou: the '-i' tells sed to write the changes into the file, so that I don't have to do a redirect with '>', is that right?
<progfou> right
<progfou> (sorry if I'm lagging: I'm attending the Mark Shuttleworth Q&A in #ubuntu-classroom)
<uvok> Okay, I think this script whould work: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9231/ (gzip without -i removes the uncompressed Package file....)
<progfou> uvok, your script is correcting the Packages file only, so the problem will still remain at the source (the control file in the .deb package)
<progfou> in fact I would rather say that it's a checkinstall problem that should probably be reported as a bug and corrected in definitivelly in checkinstall instead
<uvok> ï»¿progfou: Dpkg doesn't complain about that afaik....
<uvok> in fact, i have no idea how i could change the control-file when the package is created with checkinstall
<progfou> in the meantime you may want to hack the .deb manually using dpkg-deb -x & -e then -b (check man page)
<uvok> the only problem left is the signing. the wrong Key is chosen for signing although GPGKEY ist set...
<bddebian> Hi folks
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser
<progfou> uvok, did you put your gpg id in the SignWith: field? (in the "conf/distributions" file)
<uvok> not yet
<uvok> Bad passphrase <-- it doesnt even want to know the password
<uvok> do i have to insert SignPassword or something similar
<progfou> uvok, note that you'd better use a dedicated gpg key for your repository, not your personnal one
<uvok> why not?
<progfou> look at what do others like Debian or Ubuntu, they all have an "archive" gpg key
<progfou> first because it doesn't identify yourself but some automatic processing
<uvok> the repo is only for my local pc, not for the whole world :-)
<progfou> secondly because you'll have to use a key without password or put the password somewhere, so if you use your personnal key and it got stollen that thief may do things identified as done by yourself
<progfou> oh?! only for local PC?? then in this case why the hell are you bothering with all that? :)
<progfou> just use a deb file:///path/to/your/debfiles/ in your sources.list
<uvok> ï»¿progfou: because synaptic wanted to update the same packages again and again. now this problem was solved
<uvok> ! Oh no.... it worked so fine and suddenly the same problems appear again...
<ubottu> uvok: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<uvok> If i edit the package file theres an hash error.... if i don't theres the dependency error....
<uvok> it worked so fine dor a while....
<uvok> I really ask myself why that doesnt'k work suddenly
<uvok> is there a way to skip the md5-verification of the changed Package-File or how reprepre changes the md5hash in the release-file?
<progfou> uvok, I'm thinking you are just going to far in a too complicated way for your needs :-)
<jdong>     Remaining capacity : 0 mWh, 0.00%, 49:01:38
<jdong> why. I've invented a perpetual motion laptop!
<laga> jdong: we obey the laws of thermodynamics in this channel.
<progfou> uvok, let's come back a bit to your original problem... you say it's always trying to update your packages, do you mean from your version to a new version in Ubuntu? else could you give a precise example with package name and versions concerned?
<uvok> ï»¿progfou: no, from the same to the same version ;-) I had libdvdnav4 version 0.1.10 in my repo and synaptic always wanted to update it again and again
<uvok> from ï»¿0.1.10 in /var/lib/dpkg/status to /var/lib/dpkg/status in the local rrepo...
<uvok> (at least thats what apt-cache policy said)#
 * jdong recalls superm1's ipod-convenience PPA had a similar problem...
<ScottK> jdong: Have you heard anything about MOTU being able to upload source backports?
<jdong> ScottK: n...no, though that'd be really cool
<ScottK> OK.  Riddell was saying he'd heard something about it.  Maybe you should give it a shot.
<jdong> ScottK: oooh I'll be sure to try that soon :D
 * jdong can already see ScottK quietly doing a happy dance
<ScottK> Dunno. Depends on if it's all backports of just Universe ones.
<ScottK> of/or
<uvok> phew... suddenly it works again *rollseyes* I'm starting to wonder if i am crazy....
<jdong> uvok: you should consider becoming MOTU :)
<uvok> I still don't know how i did this... i just went through the bash history,,
<uvok> Ah! I think I got the solution!	I have to delete the Oackages.gz, then execute sed, then gzip the packages file and finally run reprepro check + checkpool
<mario_limonciell> jdong, that bug should have been fixed in launchpad already
<mario_limonciell> just upload a new version of the affected package
<mario_limonciell> and the soyuz gray magic will fix it
<uvok> I think I should put my copyright under that script or release it under GPL ;-DD
<progfou> uvok, more precisely, if you do so you'll to put a copyright (who is the owner of the rights) *and* a license information (what we can do with your work) :-)
<jdong> mario_limonciell: neat; what was the bug exactly?
<mario_limonciell> jdong, somethign with how it was handling pre-depends
<tbutter> does anyone know if revu works? i uploaded a paket 1h ago but it did not get updated.
<pochu> siretart ^
<AnAnt> Hello, I'm making a package for swt3.4 (unstable release), problem is that it doesn't compile for 64-bit arch., here's the build log: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13967106/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.swt-gtk_3.4%7EM6-1%7Eppa3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz , can someone advise for the reason of this failure ?
<rzr> AnAnt: great i'll test it on x86 at least
<rzr> AnAnt: for tuxguitar
<geser> AnAnt: have you tried asking upstream if it's known if it builds on amd64 or not?
<rzr> AnAnt: what's your ppa url ?
<AnAnt> rzr: launchpad.net/~ubuntume.team/+archive
<AnAnt> geser: no, upstream provides 2 tarballs, one for x86 arch & the other of x86_64 arch
<geser> argh
<AnAnt> geser: I found that the Debian maintainer of swt3.3, made a diff between the 2 tarballs, and included the diff
<AnAnt> geser: I found that the Debian maintainer of swt3.3, made a diff between the 2 tarballs, and included the diff in his package (he applied the diff for 64-bit archs)
<emgent> heya
<Kopfgeldjaeger> when merging a package from debian, the ubuntu changelog should be included in the new package. how should i do this? just copy the ubuntu changelog since the last merge under my newest entry`
<LaserJock> Kopfgeldjaeger: I re-add the Ubuntu entries the the Debian changelog
<Kopfgeldjaeger> like i said? or how?
<geser> Kopfgeldjaeger: just "re-apply" the changelog part from the old Ubuntu delta
<LaserJock> Kopfgeldjaeger: I take the Ubuntu entries from the ubuntu package and add them where they go into the Debian changelog
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok, i think i understand. thanks.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> to be sure: the last debian entry of $OLD_UBUNTU_CHANGELOG is from version 1.0. then there are the ubuntu changes to 1.1 and 1.2 and so on. is it ok to copy the ubuntu entries after 1.0 after the 1.0 debian-entry in $NEW_CHANGELOG? because then there is ubuntu-version 1.2 before debian version 1.1.
<LaserJock> hmm, that is interesting
<geser> Kopfgeldjaeger: which package is it?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> gthumb
<LaserJock> I think it *should* go in chronological order (based on the timestamp of the entry)
<LaserJock> even if that means versions might not go chronologicall
<LaserJock> +y
<Kopfgeldjaeger> LaserJock: ok, thanks. I've done it what way.
<LimCore> how can I set importance of given bug?
<pwnguin> i think you have to be part of the QA team
<pwnguin> ie, it's not something just anyone should set
<LimCore> how to become part of it?
<LimCore> I have tallend for finding tons of bugs in ubuntu (and btw, this isn't hard unfortunatelly)
<LimCore> s/end/ent
<pwnguin> unfortuntely, there's a set of rules for what priority a bug gets, so its' not a matter of "this bug affects me so I feel it's important"
<LimCore> I know
<pwnguin> i think joining the QA team means knowing and following the rules
<LimCore> yeap.
<pwnguin> try #ubuntu-bugs
<RainCT> LimCore: request to join the team ubuntu-qa and send an e-mail to bdmurray linking to some bugs that you have triaged, if you haven't already done so sign the CoC in LP, and promise him that you'll be nice
<RainCT> that's what's needed iirc
<sebner> LaserJock: we haven't worked together recently so thanks for the nice comment to my application :)
<sebner> RainCT: also thank you ^^
<RainCT> sebner: eh?
<RainCT> sebner: ah, no problem :)
<LaserJock> sebner: no problem. I've seen you around enough to feel good about cheerleading :-)
<sebner> ScottK: ah and I just saw for +1. Also thanks to you :)
<jcastro> pochu: ~10 minutes until your session!
<pochu> :)
<ffm> How long will it be before a _very_ simple patch is accepted?
<ffm> Like a string change.
<RainCT> ffm: for intrepid?
<ffm> RainCT, for that or SRU
<RainCT> ffm: for intrepid, until the archive opens and a MOTU looks at it
<RainCT> ffm: string changes don't classify for an SRU (unless it's a typo in the code or somewhat like that and is causing a serious problem)
<ffm> RainCT, gnome-vfs hard-codes its webbrowser as firefox sometimes, but not always.
<ffm> RainCT, I fixed the two times it did, so that it used gnome-www-browser
<RainCT> ffm: this might be suitable for an SRU, but gnome-vfs is in main so go ask the guys in #ubuntu-devel :P
<ScottK> IIRC there's already been one gnome-vfs SRU processed.
<sucitrams> just a dumb question, but I'm new in packaging: Is there a way, after running debuild, to speed up the building process, when I run debuild a second time?
<ffm> ScottK, When?
<ffm> *waht
<crimsun> sucitrams: ccache, etc.
<kozz> sucitrams: I'm no dpkg expert, but I guess you can use dpkg-buildpackage with the -nc option
<ScottK> ffm: It was uploaded to proposed a few hours after the release.
<ffm> ScottK, Ah.
<sucitrams> ok thx
<uvok> hi, it's me again
<uvok> I think the reason for the error (woth the package-file-list) is the gpg-signing. It works fine without signing, but it doesn't work with signing. even a removal of the 'old' Release.gpg and a new signing does not help
<uvok> ! but a manual signing works----
<ubottu> uvok: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<uvok> ï»¿ubottu: I already know ;)
<jdong>  Alt-Gr: (n. tech jargon), the sound a sleepy user makes when he tries to lock the screen with right ctrl+alt L and realizes ctrl-alt != ctrl-AltGr
<norsetto> oh, right alt-ctrl-L clear my konversation screen
<mario_limonciell> what exactly is Alt-Gr?
<mario_limonciell> i've never seen such a key
<megabyte405> usually your right alt key
<mario_limonciell> so why isn't it called right-alt then?
<megabyte405> it's called alt-gr on some euro keyboards, stands for alternate graphic, to do whatever's on the right hand side of each key
<Kopfgeldjaeger> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Clavier-portable-p1020454.jpg
<mario_limonciell> oh i see
<mario_limonciell> gosh,  that's way too many things to remember  that the number row can do..
<up_the_irons> hey guys...  quick *nix question.  I have a directory created by netatalk (via AFP share) with the following permissions: drwx--S---  <-- what does the 'S' mode do?
<jdong> mario_limonciell: yeah it's the right alt key. On some of my keyboards it is special and only pretends to act as alt
<jdong> doesn't work for things like locking the screen
<jdong> which requires left-alt ctrl L
<mario_limonciell> because of my little apple wireless keyboard, i had to change virtual box's settings to not use that right alt key for leaving VMs
<mario_limonciell> since it doesn't have one
<mario_limonciell> or right ctrl.  i forget which.  either way, it's missing one
<jdong> mario_limonciell: right ctrl
<jdong> mario_limonciell: it's a RETURN KEY in apple land
<mario_limonciell> yeah i'm not much of an apple folk other than having a touch, a keyboard and a mighty mouse
<mario_limonciell> so it's all new to me
<jdong> mario_limonciell: yeah :-/
<Kopfgeldjaeger> n8
<jdong> mario_limonciell: I don't mind their products from a hardware standpoint but from their lock-in standpoint it's quite irritating
<mario_limonciell> i've gotten so used to both of my HID devices, i feel really out of place on any other ones now
<mario_limonciell> i almost miss hitting ctrl-alt-fn-f1 on other keyboards
<jdong> mario_limonciell: I like the tactile qualities of the new apple keyoards.
<jdong> mario_limonciell: at the same times the way you can flash firmware via USB is a bit bone-chilling :D
<mario_limonciell> yeah
<LaserJock> 829 outstanding merges, I guess we better get crackin' :-)
<wgrant> Ouch.
<sebner> LaserJock: yeah. go go go :D :D :D
<ajmitch> LaserJock: by lunchtime, please
<wgrant> They were rather quick with the toolchain.
<LaserJock> 29 in Multiverse
<jdong> LaserJock: fun.
<LaserJock> and 534 in Main
<jdong> LaserJock: I suppose I have some debian-multimedia fun in store.
<wgrant> Now, what do I have to do this cycle...
<wgrant> Try to merge mplayer and vlc with Debian.
<ajmitch> a good thing that my name isn't on any of these
<sebner> ajmitch: why is that good?
<jdong> sebner: no blame no responsibility :)
<wgrant> TIL is rarely good.
 * jdong quietly looks away from azureus
<sebner> jdong: then we should this motu status ^^
<ajmitch> wgrant: TIL?
<sebner> jdong: + kill
<jdong> which now has a *grumble* security bug.
<jdong> ajmitch: touched it last.
<LaserJock> dang, I only have 2
<ajmitch> jdong: figures, I've been out of touch
<jdong> ajmitch: that's what she.... nah too early for innuendos.
<zul> huh intrepid open?
<wgrant> ajmitch: Touched It Last.
<ajmitch> too early? you?
<jdong> ajmitch: yeah. It's typically only after 2AM that all warning messages begin sounding dirty.
<wgrant> jdong: What has a security bug?
<jdong> wgrant: *azureus* :D
 * ajmitch has never known you to hold back
<wgrant> jdong: Nice.
<ajmitch> zul: apparantly so
<jdong> wgrant: it uses a TCP port to do IPC
<wgrant> Ah right, saw that one.
<wgrant> Really smart.
<zul> ajmitch: thats nice..
<jdong> wgrant: no kidding.
<jdong> wgrant: I'm kinda tempted to call it  upstream design retardedness
<wgrant> That's implied in Azureus.
<jdong> there's little I can see that could fix the bug other than an IPC redesign
<wgrant> :(
<ajmitch> sebner: btw, I'm not really a motu anyway :)
<sebner> damn
<sebner> ^^
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-02
<LaserJock> sebner: he's an uber-MOTU
<jdong> sebner: you don't want to take away his upload powers ;-) trust me...
<sebner> rofl
<sebner> ^^
<sebner> I want to become the Master of the Merges :D
<ajmitch> jdong: why is that?
<wgrant> ajmitch: Is rcbugs running against intrepid yet?
<ajmitch> wgrant: no, it's a little early for that
<LaserJock> ajmitch: cause you da man!
<jdong> ajmitch: because that means more work than the rest of us ;-)
<ajmitch> jdong: heh, not really
<persia> wgrant: Surely we want to run rcbugs against hardy until at least DIF, as every Debian change gets a merge listing.
 * ajmitch will break it to run against both, anyway
<ajmitch> once I un-hardcode some stupidity
<LaserJock> yeah, actually at the moment the RCbugs list may be helpful in spotting SRUs
<persia> Cool.  That makes it better for all.
 * LaserJock has SRU on the brain :/
<persia> LaserJock: Oughn't most of the entries remaining on the rcbugs list qualify for SRU?
<jdong> LaserJock: which is a good thing :)
<sebner> pochu: is there a reason why you constantly ignored my offer that you sponsor my merges? ^^
<LaserJock> persia: I would think so, hence why it'd be a good list to have around
<LaserJock> persia: as we may want to look at this regardless of the presence of an Ubuntu bug
<LaserJock> s/this/that/
<pochu> sebner: lol, where did you offer that? mail, irc?
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  If it's not an Ubuntu bug, it ought get a comment.
<pochu> sebner: I don't recall seeing that :)
<sebner> pochu: 2 times in irc. classroom and classroom-chat
<sebner> if somebody don't want to he/she won't see^^
<pochu> sebner: sorry, I guess there was too many noise ;) feel free to ping me for them, specially if they are python or gnome related
<sebner> pochu: ^^ unfortunately not. just normal merges. :8
<ajmitch> persia: python-lp-bugs should help a bit for automating that
<ajmitch> ScottK had a suggestion earlier for looking up linked debian bugs on LP
<sebner> pochu: but if you check the sponsors list you may find something you want to review. the next days I'll try to fill it ^^
<ogra> .oO( smells like ajmitch in here )
<pochu> sebner: I'm not subscribed to the u-u-s mailing list... I just look at the bug list from time to time, so i'm not sure I'll be able to look at yours...
<ajmitch> ogra: all lies
<ogra> :)
<ogra> hey
<ajmitch> you saw nothing...
<sebner> pochu: ok. np then
<pochu> sebner: so if nobody looks at them, feel free to ping me ;)
<ajmitch> hi :)
<zul> ogra: all crispy like?
<sebner> pochu: well usually I have the problem that I have too many that there always can look at one ^^
<ogra> lol
<persia> ajmitch: Right.  I was thinking of the cases where either a bug didn't affect Ubuntu as we hadn't merged the affected version, or it was fixed in Ubuntu, but the bugs not linked in LP.  Having an autolink for LP is a great thing though, and ought reduce the effort required to keep the comments up-to-date.
<ajmitch> I'll look up what previous suggestions have been made
<ffm> So, how easy is it to take a ubuntu package and get it in debian?
<ffm> Also, can a package have two maintainers, or does that get into the too-many-chefs issues?
<LaserJock> ffm: it can be fairly easy and that's called co-maintaining and it's fine
<ffm> LaserJock, Ah. kk.
<LaserJock> MOTU maintain universe packages and I've not heard of too many people complainging about too-many-chefs
<sebner> gn8 folks :)
<ffm> How hard is it to get J. Random Python Library into main once it's in universe?
<ffm> Assuming the package is not esoteric or a security package, and is well polished.
<LaserJock> well, it depends on if it's needed
<ffm> LaserJock, "needed"?
<ffm> LaserJock, I mean it's useful for education...
<LaserJock> generally a library is going to get pulled into Main because something else depends on it
<LaserJock> what library?
<ffm> LaserJock, python-gasp (not yet in universe). http://edge.launchpad.net/gasp-code (featured lp.net project)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I might consider that for Edubuntu if we get more similar learning tools for programming
<LaserJock> but it needs to get into Universe first :-)
<ffm> LaserJock, ok. (The dev on this helped write the edubuntu spec, btw)
<LaserJock> which spec
<ffm> LaserJock, This was back in 05-06 when there wasn't really all that much of edubuntu. I'm not sure which one exactly.
<ajmitch> persia: ok, half-done for being run for multiple
<ajmitch> multiple (ubuntu) releases, that is
<ffm> How hard is it to start co-maintaining a package? (say, tor, that's always needing new maintainers IIRC)
<LaserJock> ffm: not hard usually
<LaserJock> you just gotta start contributing patches and help out
<LaserJock> often times a current maintainer will ask if you want to become a comaintainer if they think you're ready
<ffm> LaserJock, Would it be considered in edubuntu if there was a book to go along with it? (gfdl, of course). (oh, and it was the original edubuntu spec I was talking about)
<LaserJock> well, a book would be cool to have
<LaserJock> but I'm more thinking along the lines that we'd want a suite of programming education software
<ffm> LaserJock, Like Scratch, Alice, LOGO, etc?
<LaserJock> maybe
 * norsetto goes to bed
<LaserJock> we had a Summer of Code project for a python learning app, that would be something
<porthose> gad what is the command to update po files.  I cant' remember :(
<LaserJock> porthose: intltool-update perhaps?
<nxvl> ScottK: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=478972
<ubottu> Debian bug 478972 in tinyerp-server "Please add downstream patches." [Whislist,Open]
<nxvl> ScottK: that's what you ask me to do, didn't it?
 * nxvl runs bbl
<morten> hi, i have a quick question about package-naming (versions). I'm packagin version 1.0~rc3 (upstream), with no changes (just added the debian/ folder), should the version be package-1.0~rc3-1 or package-1.0~rc3-0ubuntu1 or just package-1.0~rc3 ?
<jdong> morten: -0ubuntu1
<morten> ok, thanks :)
<jdong> morten: -1 is reserved for Debian's usage, raw version numbers are reserved for natively debian/'ed packages.
<morten> ok
<ajmitch> nxvl: 'whislist' may be an issue :)
<jdong> Showing 1-24 of 4,294,967,296 Songs
<jdong> hmm.
<jdong> lucky query, or too suspicious to be accidental?
<jdong> nope. just lucky. got 4.9mil the next attempt
<slangasek> depends on whether 2^32 is your lucky number?
<jdong> slangasek: it's one of those numbers that makes us cringe when we see it outputted, no? :)
<slangasek> because it's much, much more likely to be an integer bound than an actual number of query results... :)
<jdong> :)
<ffm> Where do I see the hoops I jump through to get my package in intrepid?
<coppro> I'm trying to make my first library package
<coppro> is there good documentation somewhere
<LaserJock> coppro: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<LaserJock> ffm: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<ffm> LaserJock, Merci,
<coppro> thanks
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi LaserJock
<nxvl> ajmitch: but it is whislist, not even important :D
<ajmitch> s/whis/wish/
<ajmitch> I'm surprised that the BTS didn't just reject that bug
<ajmitch> though on http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=tinyerp-server it shows up in the outstanding normal bugs
<x1250> Hi: I'm developing a little python script for posting in paste.ubuntu.com. I want this script on ubuntu universe. I have some experience with packaging (two packages for KDE Debian Team, KDE4 experimental) so I can make the package myself. Well, as I said, I have experience working with debian packagers, although little, this package would be for arch=all (interpreted).
<nxvl> ajmitch: yes, sorry!
<nxvl> ajmitch: why whould bts reject it?
<ajmitch> because it's not a valid severity, but thatnkfully it looks like the BTS will accept pretty much anything
<RAOF> x1250: Is this script something that could not be accomplished easily by modifying the existing 'pastebinit' package?
<x1250> RAOF: Yeah, didn't know that package. Then I'll improve it till mine is better.
<x1250> or more flexible
<RAOF> Or you could improve pastebinit, of course :)
<x1250> well, yeah, I can do that too :)
<ScottK> nxvl: Did you look at the latest Debian package and provide patches against that or did you give them the change that Ubuntu made to an older Debian version?
<nxvl> ScottK: yep
<nxvl> ScottK: i downloaded the packages from MoM, i did the merge from newest debian
<nxvl> ScottK: and separate the patches by file
<ScottK> nxvl: Then yes.  That sounds like what I wanted you to do.
<nxvl> ScottK: so now i can delete it from my ToDo?
<ScottK> nxvl: Thanks for looking after that.
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> You may as well submit your merge for sponsorship too then.
<nxvl> ScottK: :D
<ScottK> Then if the Debian maintainer picks up the patches, we can sync later.
<nxvl> ScottK: i will better wait for an answer from the DD
<nxvl> ScottK: and then , depending on that to upload the debdiff or request sa sync
<nxvl> scot	i will ping him tomorrow
<nxvl> ScottK: i will ping him tomorrow
<tbielawa_> Is anyone in here working towards becoming a MOTU?
<nxvl> im going for today
<nxvl> see you tomorrow
<nxvl> tbielawa_: yep
<tbielawa_> I just laid it out in stone today and I'm pretty siked about it
<tbielawa_> I work in the CS department at wvu where I'm going to school. we run it on ubuntu servers so I'm pretty close with it, we do packaging for all our system configs too
<ScottK> nxvl: I'd say get your merge uploaded and then wait.  No need to ping the DD right away.
<ScottK> tbielawa_: There are a number of people working on that.  I don't think except for nxvl any are around at the moment.
<ScottK> tbielawa_: Welcome.  Let us know if you need help or to have questions answered.
<tbielawa_> thanks man!
<tbielawa_> I want to work towards getting on the motu-science team
<ScottK> LaserJock is often around this time of day.  He's a good person to talk to about that.
<nxvl> ScottK: ok, i will do this tomorrow
 * nxvl updates his ToDo and goes away
<ScottK> I found that the best way to get to be a MOTU was to dive in and get to work.
<tbielawa_> heh, I see his name on the wiki page, that's awesome that he comes around theis place
<ScottK> nxvl: Thanks.
<nxvl> ScottK: you are welcome
 * nxvl HUGS ScottK 
<nxvl> ScottK: btw, when are you arriving to Prague?
<nxvl> ScottK: are you going for FOSS Camp?
<ScottK> nxvl: I think I'm there for part of it.
 * LaserJock stumbles in
<nxvl> ScottK: when are you arriving?
<tbielawa_> crazy timing that LaserJock has
 * ScottK looks it up.
 * ScottK hopes he wasn't carrying a laser
<LaserJock> you never know
<LaserJock> :-)
<nxvl> tbielawa_: you need to keep in mind that we are from around the world
<nxvl> tbielawa_: so maybe for you is a crazy hour but from him is a regular one
<nxvl> :D
<tbielawa_> I like that aspect about the FLOSS community
<tbielawa_> the crazy timing I was think of in a 'speak of the devil' type maner :)
<LaserJock> tbielawa_: I gotta run for a quick shower and I'll be back if you're still up we can discusss your MOTU Science future ;-)
<tbielawa_> yes! I'll be around
<nxvl> mm
<ScottK> nxvl: I'm wrong.  I get in late on the 18th.
<nxvl> ScottK: mm for the end of FOSS Camp
<nxvl> ScottK: but just in time for the FOSS Camp beers :D
<ScottK> That or collapsing from jet lag.
<nxvl> nop
<ScottK> The beer might help with that though.
<tbielawa_> :D
<nxvl> i wrong as always with the dates
<nxvl> :S
<nxvl> just fro the pre-UDS beers
<nxvl> :P
<ScottK> nxvl: Have you flown to Europe before?
<nxvl> ScottK: never
<nxvl> ScottK: the 2 times i have go out from Peru where to disney at the age of 7 and to Punta Cana for my prom trip
<nxvl> i spend 5 days drunk at dominican republic
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> it was a nice trip
<nxvl> :P
<ScottK> Flying east a half dozen time zones is (at least for me) extremely painful from a jetlag perspective.  Much worse than flying north/south or west.
<nxvl> ScottK: yep, my return trip seems to last 4 hours, with the timezone changes
<nxvl> and more or less 24 hours for going to
<nxvl> well
<nxvl> im out now
<nxvl> i'll be back in an hour or so
<nxvl> see you
<tbielawa> ahhh, killed my ghost
<LaserJock> tbielawa: k, back
<tbielawa> cool
<LaserJock> tbielawa: so, you're interested in MOTU Science?
<tbielawa> yep!
<tbielawa> I think it fits in closely to what I do now
<tbielawa> I work as a sys admin in the cs department at wvu (i'm also a jr there in the cs program)
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> I'm a PhD chemistry student at University of Nevada
<tbielawa> We run the network on ubuntu servers and desktop stations. THe fun part is packaging it all so it's automated. We're in the process of creating packages for differnet courses now so profs can have them installed on demand
<tbielawa> That's a lot of chemisty
<tbielawa> I really love the community aspect of ubuntu and that the motu's play so I'm trying to get my feet wet in the big pool.
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> tbielawa: have you seen the MOTU Science wiki page?
<tbielawa> yep, have it bookmarked
<LaserJock> k, and do you have a launchpad account?
<tbielawa> Yes, it's tbielawa, got my keys on there too
<LaserJock> tbielawa: k, then if you feel like jumping in join https://launchpad.net/~motuscience
<LaserJock> you'll be getting sent all the bugmail for the science packages
<LaserJock> so you might want to make sure to have a filter set up in your email client ;-)
<tbielawa_> sorry about that LaserJock, wireless was dying
<tbielawa_> To answer your question, yes I do have a launchpad account. name is tbielawa on there too
<LaserJock> tbielawa_: did you see what i said after that?
<tbielawa_> no, I miseed whatever you said
<nxvl> LaserJock: is there any way to filter LP e-mails by team?
<LaserJock> nxvl: yes
<LaserJock> couple different ways
<LaserJock> tbielawa_: ok, here's what I said:
<LaserJock> tbielawa: k, then if you feel like jumping in join https://launchpad.net/~motuscience
<LaserJock> you'll be getting sent all the bugmail for the science packages
<LaserJock> so you might want to make sure to have a filter set up in your email client ;-)
<nxvl> LaserJock: how?
<nxvl> LaserJock: i almost die trying to
<LaserJock> nxvl: if you can filter on headers check the X-Launchpad-Rationale header
<nxvl> LaserJock: and it's driving me crazy to have different teams bug on the same folder
 * nxvl check
<LaserJock> if you can't (gmail for instance) use the footer text of the bugmail
<tbielawa_> app submitted
<nxvl> LaserJock: X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale: you mean
<LaserJock> nxvl: that could be it
<LaserJock> tbielawa_: welcome aboard :-)
<tbielawa_> Thanks LaserJock!
<tbielawa_> Im glad summer break is the week after next.
<LaserJock> I was too
<tbielawa_> Should give me a good opportunity to get into this
<LaserJock> until I found out I'd be teaching chemistry lab this summer
<tbielawa_> L)
<tbielawa_> ohhhhh, not your favorite thing to do?
<LaserJock> well, I'm trying to finish up my dissertation (as you can tell) so it's not great time-wise
<tbielawa_> ya that makes sense
<LaserJock> well, right now we're just barely getting going on intrepid
<LaserJock> the archive just opened for general uploads
<tbielawa> that makes the motu a bunch of busy people then
<LaserJock> it does
<tbielawa> you in particular with all that going on
<LaserJock> http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html shows us the packages that we need to merge
<LaserJock> so right now packages that Ubuntu hasn't touched are being automatically synced from Debian unstable
<tbielawa> I'm not entirely sure what you're saying
<tbielawa> these are the ports from debian then?
<LaserJock> but package that we've modified (have "ubuntu" in the version) have to be manually merged over
<LaserJock> ok, so Ubuntu is based on Debian
<tbielawa> true
<jdong> hmm I've touched 3 things, 1 of which can't be merged for the foreseeable future anyway :)
<LaserJock> so at the beginning of each release we take the current packages from Debian unstable and rebuild them in Ubuntu
<jdong> *whew*
<LaserJock> that's syncing
<LaserJock> if we haven't modified the source at all the syncing is done automatically
<tbielawa> and relevant changes made in the -ubuntu changes are merged over then manully?
<LaserJock> but if Ubuntu has modified it, then we have to manually merge the packages
<LaserJock> right
<tbielawa> thats much clearer now, thanks
<LaserJock> so we have a tool called Merge-o-Matic (MoM for short) that keeps track of what needs to be merged and actually makes an programatic attempt at doing the merges
<tbielawa> ! :)
<tbielawa> 828 outstanding. Is that a hefty stack?
<LaserJock> however, much of the time we need to do things by hand, and we always check anyway
 * jdong is weird and loves merging by hand with version control systems
<LaserJock> it is
<StevenK> There's 500 odd in main
<jdong> holy crap why does claws's source package pump out a bazillion binaries?
<jdong> isn't that really taking modularization to absurdity?
<tbielawa> 0_o
<LaserJock> tbielawa: as the release progresses and Debian maintainers upload new packages we might have new packages to merge or have to remerge
<LaserJock> jdong: because it's special :-)
 * tbielawa nods
<LaserJock> tbielawa: in reality all this work is being done  by a relatively few people
<LaserJock> so that's why we love help :-)
<tbielawa> I wouldn't be here if this wasn't something I was looking forward to helping
<tbielawa> :)
<jdong> tbielawa: generally at this point of a release cycle, Debian has been doing active work for several months on packages while we've been frozen and fixing bugs in existing features/packages...
<jdong> tbielawa: after this big flood of merges, merging becomes much more pleasant :)
<tbielawa> jdong: does it get into a flow? ubuntu develops one season debian freezes, then it switches?
<jdong> with Debian's long release cycles, I've actually not witnessed a Debian freeze since I've gotten involved with Ubuntu development ;-)
<tbielawa> ha, that's the truth
<jdong> but certainly when Debian is imminent to release, their unstable repos do slow down
<jdong> in fact I had to jump to a more aggressive distro back when they were freezing up 3.0
<jdong> 3.1 rather
<tbielawa> so, @all. If I wanted to try and make a dent in this stack this weekend, what would be the first steps I take?
<tbielawa> I can package, that's not a concern
<tbielawa> I guess, I'm more looking for a... spot to throw anything I merge. REVU?
<jdong> tbielawa: there is a wiki page with very verbose instructions on how to handle merging
 * tbielawa nods
<jdong> tbielawa: on the big picture scale, (1) Figure out what Ubuntu did to the old debian version (2) Figure out what Debian has done since the old Debian version (3) Decide which changes are worth keeping from the old Ubuntu version and port those patches on top of the new Debian version
<ScottK> tbielawa: Many MOTU consider it polite that if you are going to merge a package they touched last you check with them first.
<jdong> tbielawa: but as ScottK said, it's a good idea to talk to the last-touched-by person
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging seems like the current wiki page for learning merging
<ScottK> tbielawa: It is a good practice anyway as it will often save you work.  As an example, there are 9 packages that are on the merges list with my name on them that I've already asked to have synced.
<tbielawa> So, the items listed might even have already been completed!
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> That is updated on a periodic, so it will inevitably lag.
<LaserJock> tbielawa: a good idea is to first check the package's Launchpad page to see if there is a merge or sync bug
<tbielawa> I think that contacting the last-touched-by folks would be a good way to start to interact and meet more of the motu's also
<LaserJock> before you start launching into a big effort
<LaserJock> yep
<tbielawa> ha, ya
<warp10> Heya all
<tbielawa> hello
<ScottK> Hello warp10
<LaserJock> basically, if you're not sure ask
<LaserJock> we don't bite
<LaserJock> ...usually
<tbielawa> worst that'll happen is some one says 'rtfm n00b' ;)
<warp10> hi tbielawa, ScottK
<ScottK> tbielawa: That's a good point.  Getting approved to be a MOTU is as much (if not more) about people trusting you and wanting to work with you than about technical skills.
<tbielawa> I understand that sentiment
<tbielawa> developing a ring of trust. makes me think of gpg keys for some reason
<ScottK> ;-)
<ScottK> Bonus points for good collaboration with Debian too.
<LaserJock> I guess we should make sure the merging page is up-to-date huh? :-)
<tbielawa> I did one bug fix today
<LaserJock> very much bonus points for working with Debian
<tbielawa> it's a silly one. there was a typo in the slocate package so I went and submitted a debdiff on 155-61
<LaserJock> there is a Debian Science group, though they are more of a user group than specifically packaging team like MOTU Science
<LucidFox> Hmm, pbuilder create fails for intrepid
<LucidFox> bug #225531
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225531 in pbuilder ""pbuilder create" fails for intrepid" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225531
<tbielawa> (*155061) How are the debian devs to work with
<ScottK> LucidFox: I'm pretty sure that'll work if you have a deboostrap that knows about Intrepid.
<ScottK> LucidFox: Bug 225526
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225526 in hardy-backports "Please backport debootstrap 1.0.9 from Intrepid to Hardy" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225526
<tbielawa> have you guys felt much animoscity from them. I heard rumors that some are angry that 'ubuntu isn't giving back' (whcih I don't understand)
<LucidFox> oh, wait... it's a bug in debootstrap then, not pbuilder
<LaserJock> tbielawa: it very much depends on the developer
<LaserJock> tbielawa: the vast majority are helpful and friendly, a few are not-so-friendly and vocal :-)
<ScottK> LucidFox: We need the new one backported.
<tbielawa> LaserJock: got'cha
<jdong> tbielawa: the vast majority of Debian developers I've interacted with in the process of forwarding bugs have been very friendly
<ScottK> tbielawa: Debian is very much a collection of individuals with individually varying opinions.
<LaserJock> tbielawa: the more we work with them and help them the more friendly they are, in general
 * ScottK has never had any problems.
<tbielawa> I saw in a wiki page some where that it stressed making links on debian or any other upstream projects trackers about issues we find
<ScottK> Only if they are relevant to Debian.
<LaserJock> tbielawa: yeah, in Launchpad if you either forward a bug to Debian or find an existing Debian bug for the issue you can link to it
<tbielawa> right
<ScottK> Also Debian tends to want upstream bugs reported straight upstream and not to their BTS.
<tbielawa> I have a question now about upstream bugs
<tbielawa> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/slocate/+bug/155061 the typo came from upstream, should that get forwarded to... whoever is upstream for slocate?
<ScottK> Although that varies maintainer to maintainer too.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 155061 in slocate "slocate typo: "serach_db"" [Low,In progress]
<ScottK> The kids' computer finally finished upgrading, so I'm going to bed.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<tbielawa> g'nite ScottK
<LaserJock> ScottK: night
<tbielawa> nice to meet you
<LaserJock> my server upgrade is about done
<LaserJock> I'll probably be heading to bed as well soonish
<tbielawa> same applies here. it's 2 on a week day...
<LaserJock> welcome to MOTU Land :-)
<tbielawa> Thanks
<LaserJock> some of us eat-breathe-sleep this stuff
<LaserJock> others don't
<tbielawa> irc?
<LaserJock> that's the beauty of working in Ubuntu
<tbielawa> ?
<LaserJock> you can do as much as you're able when you're able
<tbielawa> Sounds like a pretty good job to me :)
<LaserJock> yeah .... but the pay sucks ;-)
<tbielawa> my day job that does pay is sort of like an extension of this
<tbielawa> We're migrating from dapper to hardy.
<LaserJock> yeah, that's kind of a nice position to be in
<tbielawa> Well, i'm doing most of the leg work. Other staffers are moving userland desktops and work stations to gutsy, right now Im investigating hardy and kvm :)
<LaserJock> my research has nothing to do with computers so it's just a rather obsesive hobby
<tbielawa> LaserJock: I wouldnt' trade it for the world
<tbielawa> must be quite obsesive if you're the motuscience leader
<LaserJock> well ...
<LaserJock> if it was only MOTU Science that I did it'd probably be ok ;-)
<LaserJock> though I haven't been doing as much as I used to
<tbielawa> I'm going to call it quits now
<tbielawa> It's been great getting to know you and onto the science motu team!
<tbielawa> I'll see you all later on today most likely
<LaserJock> yes, thanks for joining
<ethana2> Ogle is crashing constantly
<ethana2> my mom is near crying
<ethana2> There is no launchpad entity for it
<jdong> well as a short-term solution, to prevent more crying family members, I'd suggest trying another DVD player like VLC
<ethana2> What should I use for navigating DVD's with menus and multiple episodes of things?
<jdong> but ogle on launchpad is https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ogle
<ethana2> ...with pulseaudio.
<ethana2> VLC failed miserably with PA, has it been fixed?
<ethana2> k
<jdong> ethana2: as of 12 apr 2008's upload, it's supposed to use the pulseaudio output by default
<ethana2> ok, got a crash logged in terminal
<jdong> I've heard pretty good reports of VLC+pulse
<ethana2> so the version in ubuntu stable right now, correct?
<ethana2> ogle: dvdreadblocks only got 157, wanted 263
<jdong> ethana2: correct. Hardy shipped with that version
<ethana2> FATAL [ogle_mpeg_ps]: dvdreadblocks failed
<ethana2> ok good
<jdong> ethana2: please file a bug on this, but it seems like either ARCCOS copy protection or a scratched DVD at this point
<jdong> but let's make sure. I know little about ogle specifics
<jdong> ethana2: also attach the last 30 or so lines of dmesg as a textfile
<ethana2> it needs to be 100% fault tolerant
<ethana2> alright, will do
<jdong> ethana2: indeed I agree crashing is the wrong behavior for encountering unreliable DVDs
<ethana2> absolutely
<ethana2> my dad switches to the windows drive every time they want to watch a movie
<ethana2> because of bugs like this
<jdong> ethana2: Linux DVD players in general don't seem to handle bad blocks very well
<jdong> ethana2: that's something I'd like to see more work towards
<jdong> of course, the fact that arccos encrypted DVDs purposely plant malformed data and unreadable blocks certainly doesn't help us!
<ethana2> That makes sense
<jdong> yay movie industry ;-)
<LaserJock> anybody happen to know off-hand how one would make an RSS feed out from a mailing list?
<LaserJock> s/from/of/
<jdong> LaserJock: cat -R ~/Maildir | perl -pi 's/^Subject:(.*. .... (joking)
<LaserJock> I was thinking today that it would be nice to make a SRU tester RSS feed
<LaserJock> so I was thinking if you triggered off of a -changes email
<jdong> LaserJock: I think SRU testing would benefit from a more ticket-oriented-type of interface
<LaserJock> then maybe did some fancy stuff
<jdong> LaserJock: i.e. if launchpad could export RSS feeds of queries
<jdong> LaserJock: i.e. verification-* tags
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I was thinking of using something like http://mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/ as well
<TheMuso> jdong: So how do standard DVD players play those DVDs then if they are different, or are they not that different?
<jdong> TheMuso: apparently standard DVD players happen to skip over and ignore such areas of the disk
<jdong> TheMuso: i.e. they pay no attention to filesystem structures, they dead reckon to areas of the discs they assume contain certain content
<TheMuso> jdong: Right.
<jdong> so arccos just has to corrupt the UDF data structure
<jdong> and Linux will spew bloody murder all over it
<jdong> LaserJock: that is certainly beautiful (qa.mozilla)
<jdong> LaserJock: I would love to see that used for SRU, and possibly even backports
<TheMuso> So thats a violation of the standard surely.
<LaserJock> the thing I'm trying to think about is if we should kinda shy away from directing testing people to bug reports
<jdong> TheMuso: pfft. standards. ;-)
<LaserJock> but rather have a nice page with the Test Case info and a place to "me too"
<TheMuso> jdong: heh
<LaserJock> and have all the pending SRUs together
<LaserJock> basically a smashup of http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html and http://mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/
<jdong> TheMuso: the "workaround" for arccos is usually doing a no-ECC rip of the DVD, zeroing in unreadable areas, then using a VOB ripping tool to scan the disk raw for vobs, then reassemble into another ISO...
<jdong> TheMuso: nasty to say the least.
<TheMuso> jdong: You're not wrong.
<TheMuso> How common are arcos disks?
<jdong> TheMuso: all Sony/BMG discs, a lot of Disney and disney-subcompany discs
<jdong> TheMuso: a lot of hot-demand movies now that I think of it.
<jdong> TheMuso: I was converting DVDs for my little sister's movie collection to her iPod touch and 90% of the discs I had to rip were arccos'ed
<TheMuso> Right that is a pain.
<jdong> *grumble*
<LaserJock> oh...
<TheMuso> So do all Linux players choak on them?
<LaserJock> I've never though of putting a DVD on my iPod
<LaserJock> doh
<LaserJock> jdong: how much space does a DVD generally take?
<ethana2> 5 GB
<jdong> LaserJock: a rip to ipod's screen size takes less than 400MB per 2hr movie for unnoticeably degraded quality
<jdong> LaserJock: I recommend using handbrake for such tasks
<LaserJock> wow
<jdong> LaserJock: a rip that can be outputted to a TV with acceptable quality is roughly double that size
<jdong> LaserJock: H.264 is wonderfully efficient like that :)
<jdong> LaserJock: and that's what makes apple's iPod the best portable video player on the market...
<LaserJock> I've got a 30GB 5th gen iPod Video that I have like 5GB of music on
<ethana2> What really bugs me
<ethana2> is that i want to back up a DVD
<ethana2> and it wants me to freaking transcode it
<ethana2> then I found dd
<ethana2> ...but I'd very much like a gui frontend for that
<ethana2> ....and removing file system corruption garbage and CSS while it does that would be nice.....
<ethana2> a DVD image sterilizer?
<jdong> ethana2: the problem with coding up something like that is... you make it too good the feds will be after you.
<jdong> ethana2: handbrake handles these tasks admirably (ripping DVDs) but doesn't work around arccos
<LaserJock> sounds like something a crazy MIT student would do ;p
<ethana2> anyone here live in a nation with sane laws?
<jdong> LaserJock: haha unfortunately the institute's administration is disappointingly disrespectful of students' rights
<ethana2> obscure pacific islands?
<jdong> ethana2: said places don't even have access to encrypted dvds ;-)
<ethana2> *cough* images
<ethana2> oh no
<jdong> ethana2: and said places make *A LOT* of money decrypting said DVDs and selling you money
<ethana2> heh
<jdong> it for money
<StevenK> People sell you money?
<ethana2> piracy for fair use
<ethana2> full circle, eh?
<ethana2> and then the industry complains
<ethana2> idiots.
<ethana2> Well, I filed the bug
<ethana2> I always get so frustrated because my mom doesn't blame this crud on the movie industry
<ethana2> 'well, windows plays it just fine, i guess it's linux's problem'
 * jdong wonders what kind of patching it'd take to get, say, VLC to turn off subchannel ECC
<ethana2> what is subchannel ECC?
<jdong> ethana2: optical drives try to conpensate for read errors by slowing down, rereading, and applying parity correction algorithms
<ethana2> hmm
<jdong> ethana2: all this is great for data discs where losing one bit is unacceptable
<jdong> ethana2: all this is really awful for DVDs where you'd rather lose 0.1 seconds of video than have the movie stall
<ethana2> so it is known to actually help
<ethana2> ah
<ethana2> makes sense, yeah
<jdong> ethana2: most windows media players turn off ECC and simply toss out undecodable frames
<jdong> ethana2: I'm tempted to think we shoul ddo the same though I've never tried it to see what'd happen
<ethana2> i don't suppose they'd be able to do that via wine?
<ethana2> sounds like we should
<TheMuso> jdong: Well I always play dvds in totem-xine, and I probably have a few Sony DVDs, mostly TV series and haven't had a proble,
<jdong> TheMuso: consider yourself lucky then
<ethana2> heh, yeah
<jdong> TheMuso: that's why I tend to have every DVD playing software installed on my systems
<TheMuso> jdong: heh
<jdong> ethana2: nah we have commands that we can issue the drive directly to turn off ECC
<jdong> ethana2: but there's technical implications of doing it messily, hence why I need to test out what it does exactly :)
<ethana2> well there's lindvd
<ethana2> but what are we going to do when we're dealing with blu-ray
<ethana2> and our entire OS is deemed non-kosher by the **AA?
<ethana2> AACS + BD+ + HDCP
<ethana2> I hope HD video doesn't mess with Ubuntu conversion
<ethana2> that would be horrible
<ethana2> yeah, I should probably leave this channel now, I finished what I came here for
<ethana2> good night, all
<ethana2> 'night, jdong
<tbutter> Is revu working? My upload yesterday did not work.
<wgrant> tbutter: What was the package?
<tbutter> wgrant: jodviewer
<wgrant> tbutter: OK, I can't see it anywhere. Are you in the revu-uploaders group?
<tbutter> yes, i uploaded previous versions of the package
<tbutter> should i try it again?
<wgrant> I see an upload a few hours ago - it succeeded.
<poolie> hello motus
<wgrant> Hey poolie.
<poolie>  <poolie> i accidentally uploaded bzr-1.4rc1 to our PPA
<poolie> it should of course have been called 1.4~rc1 instead
<tbutter> wgrant: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=jodviewer
<poolie> what's the most appropriate number for 1.4 final so that it supersedes this one?
<tbutter> it says february 11.
<wgrant> poolie: You'd probably want an epoch, but epochs are almost always mistakes.
<wgrant> The correct course of action is to very carefully check your version numbers before you upload, of course.
<LaserJock> poolie: can you delete the package?
<LaserJock> if it just happened you might be able to delete it without harm
<wgrant> tbutter: Huh, you're right, yet I can see a directory timestamped yesterday.
<LaserJock> not sure though
<wgrant> I'll poke further.
<poolie> wgrant: apt-get install timemachine?
<wgrant> poolie: Correct.
<poolie> but i shall do that in future
<poolie> LaserJock: I can delete it, but people may have it already installed
<poolie> i did it a while ago
<LaserJock> ah
<poolie> apparently deletion is not a good fix for bad version numbers anyhowe
<LaserJock> no, not really
<wgrant> Well, you can either introduce an epoch and have it there for eternity, or use a horrid version until 1.5, like 1.4rc1+really1.4.0
<poolie> an epoch seems like a big hammer to use...
<poolie> yeah i thought something like 1.4really would be better
<LaserJock> wgrant: is 1.4.1 > than 1.4rc?
<wgrant> LaserJock: No.
<LaserJock> s/than/
<wgrant> Otherwise 1.4.0 would be as well.
<wgrant> Which would be even better.
<jdong> wgrant: are you suggesting quiet deletion over an epoch?
<LaserJock> sure, just hoping
<wgrant> jdong: Was I?
<jdong> wgrant: I thought that's how I read it
<soren> dpkg --compare-versions 1.4.1 gt 1.4rc && echo Yes, it is.
<soren> Yes, it is.
<wgrant> I never mentioned deleting anywhere.
<jdong> wgrant: sorry wrong quote attribution
<LaserJock> jdong: I said it
<jdong> IMO dpkg should detect downgrade scenarios
<jdong> i.e. by tracking origin of packaging
<wgrant> Hm, that's strange logic.
<jdong> and noticing when packages are installed from a certain origin
<jdong> and that origin now has an older package.
<jdong> well s/dpkg/apt/
<LaserJock> ok, so 1.4.0 should work?
<LaserJock> by dpkg --compare-versions 1.4.0 gt 1.4rc && echo Yes, it is.
<wgrant> LaserJock: It seems so. But that doesn't make sense.
<LaserJock> why not?
<wgrant> Why isn't 4rc > 4?
<LaserJock> because it has a letter
<LaserJock> and not a .
 * wgrant reads policy
<wgrant> I never thought it would work like that.
<jdong> btw, dear hardy deities, I love the prominent forum link on the start page
<LaserJock> I'm off to bed
<LaserJock> night all
<jdong> though I also prefer some human contact and apparently soliciting that is against the policies of the linked places ;-)
<wgrant> Night LaserJock.
<soren> poolie: So, in summary: You don't need to do anything. 1.4.0 is considered greater than 1.4rc1.
<wgrant> tbutter: Sorry, can you please try the upload again?
<tbutter> wgrant: done
<poolie> soren: normally we call it just 1.4 but if 1.4.0 works that's great
<poolie> thanks very much
<lifeless> poolie: 1.4.0 will work
<lifeless> poolie: don't use an epoch
<poolie> lifeless:  "if it works" was a rhetorical conditional
<wgrant> tbutter: There seems to be an issue with your REVU account, which is causing the acceptance script to crash.
<tbutter> wgrant: is there any way for me to fix it?
<wgrant> tbutter: No, I'm working on it.
<poolie> i gave this tip <http://sourcefrog.net/weblog/software/launchpad/ppa-dput-protection.html> to someone using PPAs today
<poolie> i find it answers well; any suggestions/corrections?
<soren> poolie: I'd rather do something like:
<soren> [DEFAULT]
<soren> default_host_main = myppa
<soren>  
<soren> [myppa]
<soren> fqdn = ...
<soren> etc.
<wgrant> tbutter: Aha, a code change broke it a few days ago. This is why we don't reindent huge blocks of code at a time...
<wgrant> RainCT had a very, very unlucky space which broke the logic.
<wgrant> tbutter: Your upload is there now.
<tbutter> wgrant: thanks
<tbutter> wgrant: the debdiff is empty
<poolie> soren: i think having a default with this command line syntax is a bit of a misfeature
<poolie> but iswym, it might be better to at least change the default to a dead end, rather than breaking ubuntu
<StevenK> poolie: Why? dput <.changes> goes to your default, and dput <place> <.changes> goes to place
<poolie> i understand how it work
<poolie> works*
<poolie> but people just seem to easily forget it
<poolie> til you get trained, i suppose
<poolie> perhaps with ppas it's more common to have multiple targets?
<StevenK> I have targets for the archive, security, my ppa, the ubuntu-mobile ppa and Debian.
<StevenK> So I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at
<tbutter> wgrant: fixed now. thanks
<poolie> i am just observing it seems to cause someone confusion on #launchpad every week or so
<wgrant> tbutter: That breakage was caused by an app being missing from the new serve.
<wgrant> *server
<StevenK> poolie: So they configure their default to their PPA and just use dput <.changes> ?
<poolie> i don't want a default
<poolie> i would rather type 5 extra characters every time than have it go to the wrong place
<poolie> this is just an admittedly hacky way to get that behaviour
<superm1> jdong, man it looks like the guy who ships handbrake-gtk (rippedwire) hasn't updated his debs for hardy.  how's your nice little packaging effort coming on that?
<\sh> hooohoo...ibex opened...preparing pkg mirrors...
 * StevenK updates his local mirror config
<\sh> do we have debootstrap in hardy backports already?
<sebner> good morning :)
<sebner> \sh: around?
<\sh> sebner, somehow...
<sebner> \sh: ^^, I'm not sure. Could it be that you commented to the false universe application?
<\sh> sebner, yesyes...I already posted it to the list ;)
<\sh> somehow the applications need to put their names in the subject ;)
<sebner> \sh: ^^ np np
<x1250> -> /usr/bin/fakeroot: 166: debian/rules: Permission denied
<x1250> should I run debuild as root?
<wgrant> x1250: chmod +x debian/rules
<\sh> sebner, and the doomed part: stefan and steve ;)
<x1250> wgrant: thanks
<\sh> sebner, everytime I have something to do with people from oversees, they name me "Steven" or "Steve" ;)
<sebner> \sh: well, so I'll keep my "Stefan" ;:)
<sebner> \sh: it's just that persia told me it's better to have as much backing as possible otherwise I wouldn't have said anything because in my heart I know that you did mean me xD ^^
<Mez> \sh, added you to collab-maint on alioth
<\sh> sebner, it will go as planned ;)
<\sh> Mez, thx :)
<Mez> s/added you/got you added/
<sebner> \sh: ^^ hope so
<\sh> run debmirror run
<sebner> \sh: a somehow stupid question. I'll start merging soon. Am I allowed to use already my proposed @ubuntu mail adress since I hate this hellboy thing ^^
<\sh> sebner, if it's on your key why not...
<x1250> should I ignore this? I guess its because it expectos unstable?
<x1250> E: pastebin_0.1-1_i386.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file hardy
<x1250> *expects
<sommer> is it possible to add a ppa to pbuilder?
<sebner> \sh: k, thanks :)
<sebner> x1250: yep but it should be intrepid now
<\sh> sommer, you need to add your ppa to your pbuilder sources.list file which you are using
<x1250> sebner: thanks
<sommer> \sh: ah, cool
<sommer> \sh: is that seperate from the system sources.list?
<\sh> sommer, yes...you copied normally the sources.list file to /etc/pbuilder/<whereever> and this file you need to adjust...and then pbuilder --override-config update
<sommer> \sh: ooohhh, don't think I ever actually copied the file, will do though... thanks
<\sh> sommer, just follow the pbuilder howto from the wiki...
<x1250> ok, I'm getting on error and two warnings from lintian. I wonder if I can just ignore them all: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9432/
<x1250> one*
<\sh> x1250, copyright-lists-upstream-authors-with-dh_make-boilerplate <- this you need to fix
<x1250> \sh: ok, thanks
<emgent> hello
<\sh> hey emgent go and start rocking intrepid :)
<emgent> heheh \sh :)
<x1250> is there any man editor other than gedit?
<x1250> :P
<CrippledCanary> where do I go to get a sponsored upload of bug #224241 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224241 in smstools "smstools stop working after upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224241
<CrippledCanary> ubuntu-universe-sponsors is already subscribed
<james_w> CrippledCanary: it's just a case of waiting then
<CrippledCanary> ok.... i wanted to be sure that I didn't miss anything
<Riddell> which wiki page describes how to apply for motu?
<jpatrick> UbuntuDevelopment I believe
<jpatrick> aha: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<Riddell> that has a "Joining the ubuntu-core-dev team" section, but no joining motu section
<Riddell> oh, it's hidden under Contributing Developers
<_ruben> hmm .. this is from an auto-generated dependency list: Depends: libc6 (>= 2.6-1), libdumbnet1, procps (<< 3.2.8), procps (>= 3.2.7), lsb-base (>= 3.0-6)
<_ruben> looks a bit odd, the double mention of procps
<RainCT> _ruben: that's necessary to specify that you only want versions 3.2.7-3.2.8~
<_ruben> hmm .. and gutsy got 1:3.2.7
<_ruben> how does this shlibs:Depends thing work?
 * persia reorders the UbuntuDevelopment page to avoid anything being "hidden"
<persia> Err.  UbuntuDevelopers
<persia> Riddell: Is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#JoiningMOTU more clear?
<Riddell> persia: yes, now it just need appropriate links from MOTU and MOTU/Council etc
<persia> OK.  I guess my next activities are outlined then :)
<sebner> persia: around?
<persia> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU already links to that page from "What does it take to become a MOTU?".  I've updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council to have links to all four groups.
<sebner> nxvl: around?
<persia> sebner: It's a good idea to provide some context when highlighting people.  Many regular channel participants simply ignore contentless pings.
<sebner> persia: ah sry.
<sebner> nxvl: ping, would you mind if I merge the newest beagle version? Since I already asked the last uploader :P
<sebner> persia: would you mind taking a look at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wammu ? Debian fixed the first issue but didn't bumped the python-control versioning. How should I deal with it? Make it to a sync again?
<persia> sebner: If you're hunting merges, feel free to take uqm and uqm-content.  I think one is a sync, but I haven't looked at them in a while.
<sebner> persia: sry, uqm?
<persia> The Ur-Quan Masters.  A quite excellent game in need of a merge for intrepid.  For extra points, follow up with importing the externally hosted packages with the archive admins.
<\sh> W: Failure trying to run: chroot /tmp/schroot-H11754 mount -t proc proc /proc
<\sh> WAAH
<persia> \sh: Backport in progress...  Alternately, upgrade (but it's not safe)
<\sh> persia, it's more ubuntu-dev-tools :)
<persia> sebner: Why was the python-control dep bumped?  That looks like a new change you introduced.
<persia> \sh: Are you sure?  I thought it was debootstrap
<\sh> persia, yes..it's debootstrap...but I have the 1.0.9 from intrepid
<sebner> persia: because of https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wammu/+bug/204895
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 204895 in harvestman "Packages failed archive rebuild test possibly due to python-central transition" [Medium,Fix released]
<\sh> persia, regarding the changelog it's just ln -s gutsy intrepid
<persia> Ah.  No idea then: I thought I read that the new debootstrap fixed it.
<\sh> so it should work
<\sh> persia, I'll bug colin
<persia> \sh: Please report your results.  Be nice to have a guide to preparing an intrepid dev environment around.
<persia> sebner: Hmm.  I guess it depends on how the transition was worked around.  If it can build with earlier versions, it doesn't need the strict dep (note that building with an earlier version may mean it cannot be installed with a later version).  If it doesn't build with the earlier version, and the Debian package doesn't have the strict dep, that's a bug in Debian, as it would break Debian backports, and should be reported as such.
<\sh> persia, will do :)
<persia> \sh: Good luck :)
<\sh> persia, grmpf ;)
<\sh> persia, this happened when using new deboostrap for creating a hardy chroot
<persia> \sh: Ah.  That's extra frustrating.
<\sh> persia, a sudo chroot <chroot dir>  brings "bash exec format error" so during debootstrap it tells me "mount exec format error"...so something really serious is bugged up
<sebner> persia: k, thx. I'll check
<persia> \sh: Excellent.  It being really broken makes it that much easier to track...
<sebner> persia: and thx for the ur-quan stuff. for now I have *really* enough merges to do ^^
<persia> sebner: No problem.  I've about 15 more assigned, so let me know if you're running dry.  There's a few I know will be tricky, but most are just backports of Debian changes and might be syncs.
<sebner> persia: kk, first I'll do mine and later geser's ~50 ones ^^ I'll let you know if I need some but thanks very much for the offer :)
<persia> sebner: Heh.  If you're already chasing geser's, you've plenty :)
<RainCT> is Intrepid's archive already open?
<sebner> RainCT: yep
<RainCT> Oh, nice. Was there any announcement?
 * RainCT wonders if he is missing some mailing list
<sebner> RainCT: I don't think so but really crazy people like me check LP 100times every day ^^
<\sh> persia, ok..intrepid debootstreap + chroot works as expected...now for the hardy one (doing now all manually)
<sebner> RainCT: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid
<\sh> RainCT, topic #ubuntu-devel
<persia> RainCT: There'll likely be an email when everything is done, and the autosync starts.  At this point, the archives are open mostly because it was convenient to do so, rather than because all the intrepid prep is done.
<\sh> DON'T INSTALL DEBOOTSTRAP from INTREPID YET !
<emgent> uhm
<\sh> emgent, revert your install ;) and downgrade to hardy one ;)
<emgent> argh
<emgent> ok, i go to eat
<\sh> lol
<emgent> see you later people :)
<\sh> looks like it doesn't like the --arch switch
<james_w> \sh: it's not http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=363049 is it?
<ubottu> Debian bug 363049 in debootstrap "Failure trying to run: chroot /opt/chroot/unstable mount -t proc" [Important,Open]
<\sh> james_w, somehow it looks like it...but it's different here
<\sh> james_w, sudo debootstrap hardy hardy_chroot <-- works as expected on amd64... sudo debootstrap --arch=amd64 hardy hardy_chroot <--- doesn't work and throws exec format errors (at debootstrap time for the mount command)
<persia> +
<\sh> james_w, I'm trying to reproduce this now with --arch=i386 and --arch=amd64 for intrepid
<persia> Could still be the same bug, but just a different call environment, and different arches on the default mirror
<\sh> but for hardy we had a similiar bug last time for hardy when I remember correctly
<ScottK> I'm still using LaserJock's original pbuilder script and it doesn't use --arch.  So no wonder I didn't see it.
<\sh> ok...--arch=i386 works
<persia> \sh: Maybe.  I don't think debootstrap has worked properly for me since edgy, but I've always assumed that was my fault.
<ScottK> That and I'm on i386 boxes anyway.
<\sh> ScottK, well, it wouldn't be a big deal...but using sbuild + i386 +amd64 on amd64 box it is not nice to have e.g. intrepid-i386 , intrepid, intrepid-lpia ...because it worked before with --arch=amd64 and it should work now ;)
 * persia isn't so concerned about intrepid-i386: it's a rare case that something that works for amd64 and lpia wouldn't work for i386.
<ScottK> Agreed (should work now) - Fortunately it seems a highly qualified community developer is motivated to solve the problem.
<\sh> forget about it
<\sh> see #u-d
<\sh> I kill my wife
<\sh> and I hate my life
<laga> hans?
<\sh> she will get an official tabu for my office
<laga> ah
<laga> ;)
 * laga needs to refrain from making distasteful jokes about hans reiser
<\sh> between saying and doing there is a difference...when I would have killed all people I wanted to kill, hell...I would be imprisoned long time ago ;)
<sebner> \sh: too late
<ffm_> Hey, how do I go about gettting a package in ubuntu + debian?
<sebner> persia: It's building with python-control 0.5 so I suppose we can sync it :)
<geser> ffm_: get it included in Debian and then let it sync to Ubuntu
<sebner> geser: I'll merge scite, ok?
<geser> sebner: sure
<sebner> geser: just wondering why you introduced this FTBFS fix since it doesn't FTBFS with the new debian version nor with the old debian version here
<persia> sebner: Right.  As a lesson, it's a good idea to test things to make sure they really need dependency bumps.  Sometimes for integration purposes, it's better to recompile against a newer version, even when there's not a strict requirement.  In these cases, it's better not to enforce the build-dep if a backport would still work properly.
<\sh> cu later...reinstalling
<sebner> \sh: hf
<sebner> persia: blame ScottK :P He forced me to bump it IIRC
 * persia blames ScottK, but notes that sometimes a strict build-dep is required during a transition, just to avoid race conditions
<sebner> ^^
 * Hobbsee blames persia
<persia> Hobbsee: Always a safe bet :)
<Hobbsee> so, did anything interesting happen?
<persia> Just a merge that can be a sync because we introduced a change that is no longer necessary
<Hobbsee> oh good
<sebner> uhh just 1 more and I have me first 10 full xD
<ScottK> sebner: Which package are we talking about?
<sebner> ScottK: wammu
<geser> sebner: the FTBFS only happened on amd64 (see http://buildd.debian.org/fetch.cgi?pkg=scite;ver=1.75-1;arch=amd64;stamp=1197285793)
<persia> ScottK: Based on sebner's test report, it doesn't actually need a strict build-dep on python-central 0.6.
<geser> sebner: and looking at the scite changelog my fix got included in the Debian package
<ScottK> Right.  The impact of building with an earlier version is it ships an empty /usr/lib dir in the .deb
<geser> sebner: so it looks like a sync now
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  Should that block backports?
<ScottK> persia and sebner: I agree on wammu.  The impact of using the earlier version is minor and not worth maintaining.
<ScottK> persia: No.  It shouldn't.
<sebner> geser: ah totally missed that. sry. Will file a sync bug now :)
<ScottK> I agree wammu is a sync now.
<sebner> ScottK: fine. thx
<ffm_> Uh, debian is a bit difficult for me to get into.
<ffm_> How about getting my package into ubuntu for now...
<persia> ffm_: The process is essentially the same.  Generate a candidate that is fully policy compliant (Debian has fewer policy requirements), and get someone to upload (in Debian you only need one ACK, rather than two).
<persia> For Ubuntu, see !revu
<ffm_> persia: However debian wants my real name.
<persia> ffm_: So does Ubuntu
<ffm_> persia: I'm a minor with parents who don't want to be able to google my name.
<Amaranth> I never understood why people hide their names
<Amaranth> ffm_: Then you can't get a package uploaded
<ffm_> Amaranth: I wouldn't but I'm required to.
<persia> ffm_: In that case, you'll need to work with someone else to have them take responsibility for your package.
<ffm_> Amaranth: What if I could get a person who _did_ disclose their real name to sponser me?
<Amaranth> ffm_: Then they would have to take responsibility for that package (fixing bugs, etc) and hope you would actually do it in their place
<persia> ffm_: That works for both Debian and Ubuntu, but the person who does disclose their real name has to take responsibility for the package (perhaps as your proxy).
<persia> Essentially, someone has to accept the upstream license, and extend a license to the distribution.  In many jurisdictions, it is hard for a minor to do this anyway.
<persia> Amaranth: It's not so much about fixing bugs (although that is good), as the legal requirements for extending a license to the distribution.
<persia> (distributions are granted licenses by uploaders, rather than by upstreams)
<ScottK> Where in our policy does it say we need a real name?
<james_w> ffm_: you can file an RFP in Debian ("Request for packaging"), and if it is interesting it will be picked up.
<ffm_> persia: It's a GFDL book. I'll gladly disclose my name to canonical (they know it already) and have my parents sign and mail a release or what's required.
<persia> ScottK: Inhereited from Debian policy, and no exception confirmed.
<Amaranth> persia: I'm more worried about more and more new junk being uploaded without someone taking care of it when there aren't enough people to deal with the junk we have now
<ScottK> persia: Not quite correct.
<persia> Amaranth: I agree it's a concern, just not one about the name.
<ScottK> persia: In Debian name is only verified for DDs/
<ScottK> No one verified my name before they sponsored my stuff here or in Debian.
<persia> ScottK: No?  I thought it was a requirement.  Interesting.  I wonder how SPI justifies the licenses for Debian software without the requirement.  Maybe it's never been tested.
<ScottK> Anyonymous copyright is valid.
<persia> ScottK: Well, depends on the jurisdiction.  Where you live, it's not.
<ffm_> Fedora has the same policy.... :(
<ffm_> persia: What about the USA?
<ScottK> How does anyone who hasn't got their key signed get something uploaded?
<persia> (or at least so is my reading of the relevant statutes)
<ScottK> persia: I think that's not correct, but I need to depart for a $WORK meeting so we can debate another time.
<persia> ffm_: My reading is that pseudonymous copyright is honored there, but not anonymous copyright, but you'd want counsel for an opinion.
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> Sorry.  I agree with that.
<ffm_> ScottK: What if I signed my pseudonymous key with my personal key (signed by people in the SWOT) and sent it to a canonical employee, who then signed and published that key (without my signature attached).
<ScottK> Look at the upstream author's history for clamsmtp.
<persia> ScottK: Makes sense.  Also, I agree with your point about verification: it's that I believe it to be a possible source of liability, which is fine as long as nobody is intentionally unable to disclose a name was there a question with licensing.
<ScottK> ffm_: There's no verification that the key you put in LP has your actual legal name on it.
<persia> ffm_: Have you registered your psuedonym?  In most states in the USA it's about a $10 fee at the local city hall, and then any questions I raise about not using your real name are likely to be moot.
<persia> And, as ScottK says, we don't verify, although we do reject obvious handles preferring at least believable pseudonyms for new packages.
<ScottK> persia: Have we ever actually done that?
<ScottK> I know LP requires a real looking name for their beta test team and has booted people because of it, but I didn't think Ubuntu did.
 * ScottK really needs to leave ....
<persia> ScottK: Yes.  I've seen several comments on REVU (not all mine) requesting a real name in the changelog.  I suspect we're covered by "reasonable doubt" in common-law jurisdictions, and "limited dilligence" in civil law jurisdictions with that practice, but that's not legal advice.
<sebner> ScottK: bye bye ^^ may want to take a look at my application?
<persia> ScottK: Go to your meeting.
<ffm_> persia: my psedonym is 'ffm'.
<persia> Oh, and Ubuntu doesn't care for most cases, just new packages.  Contributors can have any LP name they like.
<ffm_> persia: If someone else uploads it, I don't get credit for my work.
<persia> ffm_: That's likely insufficient to cause anyone to believe that the reviewer didn't notice.  At least I'd be concerned about advocating such a package, although I can't speak for everyone, and most importantly, not for the archive admins who are the final arbiter as to whether Ubuntu will accept any offered package.
<ffm_> persia: Can a maintainer be psedunonymous?
<persia> ffm_: How do you mean?  There's no reason the changelog can't say "Thanks to ffm for the initial packaging", it's just that someone else has to sign it.
<laga> ffm_: if it's not your real name, would you actually get "credit" at all? t'd stll be your pseudonym in there
<Hobbsee> ffm_: i used a psuedonym for ages in ubuntu.
<Hobbsee> ffm_: made no real difference.
<Hobbsee> ffm_: your identity isn't much different, depending on how many words you're using to define yourself.
<ffm_> laga: yeah, I would.
<persia> ffm_: Yes.  There's at least one Debian Developer who acts strictly according to a legal pseudonym, but it needs to be registered.  In Ubuntu, we don't have maintainers, as such, but the initial packager may be pseudonymous as long as we either don't notice (unlikely in your case at this point), or it is a registered pseudonym.
<persia> (as previously noted, this is neither legal advice, nor a guide to the eventual actions of the archive administrators)
<ffm_> persia: I don't think city hall will allow me to register "FFM", especially as a minor.
<ffm_> persia: I understand.
<persia> ffm_: As a minor, you'd just need parental consent to register a pseudonym, as I understand it, for some set of jursidictions (that's actually decided state-by-state in the USA).  I'm less sure about the use of "FFM", but there are some strange legal pseudonyms out there.
<Hobbsee> ffm_: give them a false name?
<ffm_> Hobbsee: I doubt they'd accept "Fire Fox Man" (what FFM originally stood for) either.
<Hobbsee> ffm_: your parents won't let you put your name on your key, but use an alias for everything else?
<persia> Actually, I suspect "Fire Fox Man" would be acceptable, although it may have trademark issues, depending on the use to which you intended to put it.
<Hobbsee> that's what i did
<ffm_> Hobbsee: I'm not sure... I'll have to ask...
<ffm_> persia: What, with mozilla? They'll thank me for the advert.
<persia> ffm_: Also, you can do lots of bugfixes and revision uploads without any hassle about your name: it's just new packages that get sticky (due to the bit about "This package was debianised by (insert name here)"
<Hobbsee> ffm_: might be worth doing so.
<Hobbsee> persia: i wouldn't have expected there to be a problem until the requiring of keysigning, for motu-ship
<persia> Hobbsee: For working on Ubuntu, I believe there is no problem until keysigning.  For new packages, I've seen a few packages in REVU be rejected for not having a real name.
<Hobbsee> persia: really?
<Hobbsee> persia: who rejected them?
<persia> Really.  I forget who, etc.  Grep "Real Name" in the REVU mailing list archives.
<Hobbsee> persia: following launchpad's lead, i really see no reason why an alias can't be used, prior to the key signing for MOTUship.
<Hobbsee> s/prior/modulo/
<persia> I know I left at least one comment along those lines, but I don't think I was the sole culprit.
<persia> Hobbsee: See backscroll about my opinion on that.  I believe it to be about someone granting Ubuntu the license to distribute the software.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: LP has stopped requiring it.
<Hobbsee> (finally)
<Hobbsee> persia: if that's hte case, then all real names should be verified.
<persia> Hobbsee: Likely.  That's up to Ubuntu's counsel (if any) to determine and impose.
<ffm_> Hobbsee, persia , thanks for the help.
<Hobbsee> ffm_: it shouldn't really be an issue.
<Hobbsee> bah.
<laga> i'd get rather annoyed at my parents if they didn't let me use my name. i mean, it's mine. but of course, i'm sure they have reasons for doing so.
<jcastro> ok, we have 2 open slots for openweek that just opened up @1600 and 1700 UTC
<jcastro> if anyone wants to run a session please let me know
<Hobbsee> laga: they certainly have a point.
<Hobbsee> laga: then again, i choose not to use my real name as much as possible (at least, modulo going to sevilla for a UDS)
<laga> Hobbsee: i used to do the same, but for debian/copyright and debian/changelog i don't want to use a pseudonym
 * Hobbsee just doesn't do new packages.
<sistpoty> hi folks
* sistpoty changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | 8.04 is released: Let's fix any SRU-worthy bugs before the users try the package. | Intrepid open
<laga> yay.
<iulian> Yikes!
<Daviey> :o
<sebner> heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi sebner
<sebner> sistpoty: got my mail?
<sistpoty> sebner: hm? regarding universe contributors application?
<sebner> sistpoty: right :)
<sistpoty> sebner: yeah... but I've been lazy so far and haven't answered yet :P
<sebner> sistpoty: I see ^^
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<sebner> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty, sebner
<iulian> Boo bddebian!
<bddebian> Heh, hello iulian
<guja_nebeska>  I want to be Ubuntu developer. I am relativly beginner, and I am asking from You to give me some advice and literature to read and learn Ubuntu so I can develop that OS.
<guja_nebeska> I am C and C++ programmer, but don't know as much about Ubuntu as programming.
<guja_nebeska> So, please, give me some ebook adivces, books, links, anything.
<guja_nebeska> I'd be very grateful for any kind of help.
<guja_nebeska> Thank You.
<jcastro> thekorn: ping
<RainCT> Hi guja_nebeska
<guja_nebeska> Hi RainCT.
<RainCT> guja_nebeska: what are you interested in? Packaging / bug fixing, creating new applications for Ubuntu, working on existing applications..?
<guj4_n3b3sk4> RainCT, creating new applications.
<guj4_n3b3sk4> But:
<guj4_n3b3sk4> I don't know much about Linux OS and Ubuntu.
<guj4_n3b3sk4> I think I need 1st to learn lots about that.
<guj4_n3b3sk4> So I can build some applications.
<guj4_n3b3sk4> Right?
<persia> guj4_n3b3sk4: We don't tend to build a lot of new applications in Ubuntu, it's more about maintaining the existing packages, and adding new ones from various sources.
<guj4_n3b3sk4> persia, then that kind of stuff.
<persia> If you really want to work on new software, you'd do best to just dig in and write it (and once it's good we're happy to help get it into Ubuntu).
<guj4_n3b3sk4> Anything that can be interesting and having work to do.
<persia> Ah, good.  In that case, we've heaps and heaps of stuff to do.
<RainCT> guj4_n3b3sk4: well, then this isn't the right channel (#ubuntu-motu is about packaging), but anyway.. is there anything specific you would like to know about? For stuff with GUI, look at GTK+ (or Qt if you use Kubuntu). http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=39 might also help
<persia> I'd recommend reviewing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing, and looking at the ~35,000 open bugs.  There's likely quite a few that are bugs in C or C++, most commonly due to people not checking for error conditions being returned by functions.
<guj4_n3b3sk4> Well, if I want to solve some of those bugs, I need to be very familliar with Ubuntu system, right?
<persia> Not necessarily.
<guj4_n3b3sk4> What knowledge do I need to have?
<persia> As an example, let's say there is some game you play that crashed.  You'd only need to understand enough about that game's code to fix the crash.  As you fix more, you'll develop an undersanding of the entire system, and of the processes we use to get the patches available to everyone.
<persia> You really don't need any specific knowledge, only a willingness to learn, a desire to investigate any issues, and the ability to discover information from online sources.
<guj4_n3b3sk4> If that's so, can you give some "bug training pages"? Like the easiest bugs and it's fixes?
 * jdong looks at poolie's latest planet post...
<jdong> it's a good idea, I do it by default...
<jdong> IMO it should be default behavior though
<persia> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs is the list of open bugs, and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs talks about tracking them down.  For the most part, each bug has a unique solution, so that's a bit harder.
<Hobbsee> jdong: because scripts should not be allowed to work, at least for some people?
<persia> You might want to take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek for some current discussions about various aspects of Ubuntu, and the logs may provide some guidance as to how to help.
<jw2328_> guj4_n3b3sk4: look for bugs with the "bitesize" tag, they should be easy to start with
<jdong> Hobbsee: the one regarding setting dput.cf to default to a nonexistent target?
<Hobbsee> yes
 * jdong thinks setting default to nonexistant is useful to prevent accidentally uploading to the wrong spot
<guj4_n3b3sk4> jw2328_, any link to that?
 * Hobbsee doesn't like the thought of merging it each time the package gets updated.
 * persia likes having a default set
<persia> Hobbsee: We already have a significant merge to dput.cf, so it's not a lot extra
<jw2328_> guj4_n3b3sk4: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<Hobbsee> persia: i meant every user, but yes
<persia> Hobbsee: Well, it only happens for those ~1000 people with dput installed, and only when we change the defaults.
<Hobbsee> right, eyah
<gnomefreak> shouldnt envy be in multiverse instead of uni? since its installing drivers and building modules for it? and we are unablet o support the drivers or modules?
<gnomefreak> nvidia=glx-* are the same thing but they cant be put in uni
<persia> gnomefreak: It's not about support, it's about licensing.  If envy works without requiring the download of packages for which the license is inappropriate, it can be in universe.  If it doesn't, it needs to be in multiverse.  Depends on whether it's automatic, or a result of user action.
<persia> The base test is whether a user could conceivably use envy in a way that didn't require non-free software.
<persia> (and yes, licensing often impacts supportability)
<gnomefreak> but isnt that the point it is installed and building nonfree items
<gnomefreak> assuming that the python part of the script is free?
<gnomefreak> atleast if i remember right it is py
 * persia looks for an example package
<gnomefreak> persia something like say the hardware installer in main?
<persia> gnomefreak: That's a fairly direct comparison, and doesn't provide much parallax.  I'd argue that they are both free or non-free for the same reasons, but want to look for something else as a determinant.
<gnomefreak> persia: ok
<gnomefreak> i just dont want people getting the idea we support the drivers or the install of the drivers, apt-cache show doesnt say anything about installing restricted drivers
<persia> BSD w/advertising is enough for non-free, right?
<persia> s/non-free/multiverse/
<gnomefreak> for multi it should be
<persia> gnomefreak: As in, anything with the advertising clause can't be universe?  Oh well.  I thought I had an example.
 * gnomefreak doesnt have a problem with it its the support end where user says you support envy but not the drivers that it gets.  we have worked hard and long to get people to not use official drivers from the .run script and that is all envy does is grab the .run and run it afaik
<gnomefreak> does it atleast remove the modules and drivers when you remove envy?
<devfil> persia: ping
<ScottK> persia: 4 clause BSD (with the advertising clause) is DFSG free, but not GPL compatible.
<ScottK> gnomefreak: I think the difference is that the drivers have to be put into multiverse by an Ubuntu dev and agreed by the archive first.
<persia> ScottK: OK,  Any idea why basilisk2 is contrib/multiverse then?  The only thing I can see is that it requires an old apple ROM image, which would be a good match for envy/jockey.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: ok i get it
<ScottK> gnomefreak: Not sure how well this will work, but it's way better than the original upload that updated from Alberto's PPA and gave a non-developer access to arbitrarily update end users systems.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: persia thanks
<ScottK> persia: No.  No idea (no time to research it just now either).
<ScottK> persia: A few months ago someone asserted 4 clause BSD was non-free on debian-devel and got a serious beat down as a result.
<devfil> persia: this bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/baltix/+source/wxwidgets2.8/+bug/133888 in ubuntu was fixed but in baltix it is in "New", what should be is status?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the 2.8.6.1 release" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<persia> gnomefreak: I'm not likely to research it either, but if you want to track it down, you might use it as an argument to either demote envy&jockey or promote basilisk2.
<ScottK> The summary of the discussion was it's technically DFSG free (because it was part of the defined set of DFSG licenses when DFSG was approved), but really not a good choice for free software.
<ScottK> devfil: You can ignore the baltix part.
<gnomefreak> persia: im gonna grab souce and see if it removes the full install drivers + modules
<persia> devfil: No idea.  I don't track baltix.  If it exists, you might try #baltix.
<persia> gnomefreak: Regardless of how well it works, I can't see any reason why the component should be different than basilisk2.
<devfil> ScottK, persia: ok, thanks
<persia> devfil: In general, once you close the Ubuntu tasks for wxwidgets, feel free to unsubscribe from the bug.
<persia> (and thanks for your efforts with the library: it's really nice to see it being properly maintained)
<devfil> persia: ok
<gnomefreak> its more widely used?
 * persia notes for those not watching, that devfil == dfiloni
<persia> gnomefreak: How does that affect anything?  I can see it for a restricted/multiverse argument, but not for a universe/multiverse argument.
<gnomefreak> well even that makes sense since our drivers are in restricted not multi anymore
<persia> gnomefreak: Right.  Something that gets a lot of use, and can be supported (even as closed source) can be restricted.  I believe the TB limits this to drivers at the current time.  Most non-free stuff gets put in multiverse.
<gnomefreak> ah ok i see it now its all making sense
<persia> gnomefreak: Best check with the archive admins,  If you need a definitive answer, ask elmo, but ask the archive admins first.
<ScottK> jdong: I also set my upload target to a non-existent target in dput.cf, but I don't think we should change the package defaults.
<jdong> ScottK: do we encourage doing so in setting up a default environment?
<jdong> ScottK: with PPAs and revu around, it's really easy to upload to the default when one means the others
<ScottK> True.  I also discovered that if you completely unset the target it send it to Debian.
<persia> jdong: The presumption is that anyone who has permission to cause an issue when uploading to ubuntu by accident has a procedure in place to avoid such mistakes.
<ScottK> Which is why I changed my default.
<ScottK> persia: Or in my case will put them in place after they mess up once.
<Hobbsee> andi t's a development release, which means that you can always revert if you really screw up
<ScottK> Yep.
<jdong> I suppose
<persia> ScottK, Hobbsee: Well, sure.  That's why it's a presumption, rather than a requirement.
<ScottK> kde-guidance has a debian/changelog entry that says "Revert upload intended for PPA".
 * jdong nods
<ScottK> jdong: Changing dput defaults in a way that would affect every developer is not something we should do lightly.
<persia> jdong: All that said, be very, very careful, and don't make another changelog like that :)
<jdong> lol I've never done it (yet) ;-)
<ScottK> That was me.
<jdong> (watch, now that'll curse me to do it)
 * persia would be especially opposed, as >90% of uploads are to Ubuntu default repo, and it's easier not to type it.
<ScottK> Worse I did it during one of the soft freezes.
 * sladen tries to remember to set it to 'unpublished' and only change to the upload distro when it's ready
<sebner> heya afflux
<afflux> hi sebner :) how was your 1st may? ;)
<sebner> afflux: calm, and yours? ^^
<afflux> a rather long night ;)
<sebner> afflux: ^^. btw I hate new bugsquad members -.- they do wired stuff with my bug repots
<sebner> *reports
<afflux> huh
<sebner> afflux: bug 225669
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225669 in wammu "Please sync wammu 0.26-2 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225669
<sebner> afflux: why the hell does he set it to Confirmed and assigned it to MOTU media?
<ScottK> sebner: Let me have a look.
<sebner> ScottK: hm?
<afflux> hm, never saw that name
<sebner> afflux: ^^
<ScottK> He's not on IRC right now.
<sebner> ScottK: I suppose he is pretty new and confused ^^
<afflux> joined bugsquad on tuesday
<afflux> I think we should add some notes to the HowToTriage pages for bugs used by developers for their "todo list"
<afflux> or motu tasks in general
<sebner> afflux: would be nice :)
<persia> afflux: Please do.
<sebner> persia: are you never sleeping? ^^
<persia> sebner: I sleep at least 40 hours a week.
<sebner> persia: ~6 per day. horrible :P
<jdong> that's 3x as much as I sleep...
<jdong> yikes.
<persia> jdong: It's a location thing.  Despite perception, Tokyo is a sleepier place than Boston.  The trains stop earlier and start later.
<jdong> persia: interesting. didn't know that
<sebner> persia: I would be really interested in how old you are and how you look like :)
<jdong> is this what the "if you prefer some human contact" part of the start page means?
<jdong> *hides*
<persia> sebner: Look me up next time you come to Tokyo then :)
<sebner> persia: hmrpf. so never I suppose ^^
<persia> Well, that's about how often I've been to Hermagor ;)
<sebner> persia: well, at least Vienna should be possible ;)
<persia> To be honest, I've only ever been in Innsbruck in Austria.
<sebner> persia: why that O_o
<persia> Close to the Arlberg Pass?  Anyway, well off-topic :)
<sebner> persia: for skiing? , yeah true ^^
<Konam> The package gnome-subtitles isn't working as expected on my system. It crash when I try to create a new sub and doesn't open subs that I already have on my hdd
<persia> Konam: You likely want #ubuntu-bugs, and you'll want to have first searched (and maybe reported something) from https://bugs.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/+source/gnome-subtitles/+bugs
<Konam> persia oh, sorry
<Konam> I thought that this channel was to report this kind of stuff
<Konam> and since the maintainer of that package are the motus I thought that I have to come here, not ubuntu bugs
<persia> Konam: No problem.  This is where we tend to coordinate the MOTU work, but #ubuntu-bugs is where the team that keeps track of all the bugs chats about the bugs, and duplicates, etc.
<Konam> got it
<Konam> persia it seems that the problem isn't in the motu package, a getdeb package have the same problem too, it must be something on my system but I don't know what
<persia> Konam: Hmm..  getdeb is specifically unsupported, and ubuntu-backports recommended for the same purpose.  You might try asking in #ubuntu (user support channel).
<Konam> persia yeah, I know. I was just telling you for the record, not asking for support ;)
<persia> Konam: Sorry if I give the perception that I'm sending you away: it's just that I know nothing about that package, and want to point you towards people who might be able to help :)
<ScottK> Konam: For the record getdeb developers have been asked to participate in official Ubuntu development and work in backports, but declined because the official quality standards are to hard to meet from their perspective.
<laga> hum. i'd like to do an SRU for a native package which doesn't have a patch system. is it ok for the changes to end up in the .dff.gz? for intrepid, the package wll be fixed "properly".
<ScottK> laga: Generally yes, but do note that native packages dont' have a .diff.gz.
<Konam> ScottK I know. What I'm trying to say is that the ubuntu-motu package and the getdeb package are giving me the same problems so I think it got something to do with my system.
<laga> ScottK:  sorry. of course, it's not a native package.
<persia> Further, native packages ought never have a patch system.
<laga> yes. that'd be silly. :)
<ScottK> Konam: OK.  Just read more of the backscroll.
<ScottK> Konam: I remember something about that package.  There may be a pending update for it.  I'd encourage you to look for your issue in existing bug reports.
<persia> laga: The basic rule is to use the existing patch system.  If the packages stores changes outside debian in diff.gz, then your new patches should also be in the diff.gz.  If the package doesn't have any patches (rare), I'd recommend looking at other packages by the same Debian maintainer to select a patch system, in the expectation that this would maximize your chances of getting the fixes into Debian easily.
<persia> If it's an Ubuntu-local package with no patch system and no changes in diff.gz, you get to select the patch system as the first person to generate a patch.
<laga> persia: it's a mythbuntu package. since we're upstream, there is no reason for a patch system
<laga> but thanks for the instructions, i'll keep them in mind!
<ScottK> For an SRU, I think the preference is not to introduce a patch system if one isn't already present.
<persia> laga: In the specific case of mythbunth, you're dealing with Ubuntu-local non-native packages (and thank you for having them be non-native).  Add any patch system you like for the SRU: I'd recommend diff.gz, given that upstream is all in VCS, and you'll likely be creating an SRU branch.
<persia> ScottK: Doesn't that depend somewhat on the package?  I thought that when backporting SRU fixes from Debian, it was encouraged to use the same patch system as used in Debian for the fix, even if that meant introducing something.
<laga> persia: i'm not creating an SRU branch, i'm currently the only one comitting fixes which are for the SRU
<ScottK> persia: If you're pulling a patch from Debian and they added a patch system for it, then I agree that's the low risk approach.
<persia> laga: Ummm...  There's a release branch, and then new work.  Won't the changelogs differ between the intrepid upload and the hardy-proposed upload?  To support another SRU for the same package, won't you want to branch it in your VCS so you can easily do the next one?
<persia> (note that this is mythbuntu-specific advice: most packages in Ubuntu universe don't have dedicated Ubuntu packaging in a VCS, and oughtn't)
<laga> persia: you're right. creating a branch for hardy is the most sane approach. i'll do that later, though. the current SRU debdiff is almost ready :)
<persia> ScottK: Right.  I agree it's a rare case, but want to preserve the "keep the existing patch system" and "minimize non-automated" changes memes.  I really don't like SRUs that deviate significantly from the fix as applied elsewhere or SRUs that include hand-monkeying with autotools stuff to minimize the debdiff.
<ScottK> Yes.
<persia> laga: Please commit your change to a branch in BZR and pull the created package from BZR to generate the debdiff, just to ensure repeatability.  This procedure was missed a few times for some of the Ubuntu native packages previously (pre-Dapper), and there were some odd regressions.
<laga> persia: done.
<persia> laga: Thanks :)  Also, you guys might want to follow the new package format discussions.  If LP can handle the BZR-format packages, it ought make things easier.
<laga> i've committed and created a fresh checkout afterwards, that should be good enough.
<persia> laga: Ought be.  I suspect best practice involves setting some flags and using bzr-builddeb, but I'm not familiar with that tool.
<laga> i've never used t either
<laga> SRU first, learning new things afterwards :)
<persia> Anyone familiar with best packaging practices with BZR willing to review laga's work to make sure the next mythbunth SRU goes smoothly?
<laga> seriously: the debdiff looks sane, i've used the same orig.tar.gz which is already in hardy-proposed.  i don't see what could have gone wrong :)
<afflux> will packages that are new in debian be automatically synced into intrepid or would that need a sync request?
<james_w> persia: sure, give me a pointer.
<persia> laga: Do you have a URL for james_w?
<laga> yes, in a few..
<ScottK> afflux: Ones with no differences between Debian/Ubuntu will be automatically sync'ed
<persia> afflux: Things in contrib and non-free need manual review (to decide if they are universe or multiverse).  Everything in Debian main will autosync.
<ScottK> afflux: I missed New in your question.  Yes.  They will.
<afflux> okay thanks!
<laga> james_w: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythbuntu-control-centre/+bug/221921/comments/7 - here's the debdiff. do you also need the upstream branch?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221921 in mythbuntu-control-centre "SRU: progress bar oddities break creation of diskless clients" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<james_w> you want me to check that your changes are reflected in the bzr branch correctly?
<laga> i have no clue what persia wants :) the debdiff should be OK.
<persia> james_w: If you would, please.  mythbuntu is doing everything non-native in BZR, and I'd like to make sure that the SRU practices match their general packaging practices.
<laga> https://code.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/mythbuntu/mythbuntu-control-centre
<laga> here's the upstream branch
<laga> james_w: revision 214 is what's in regular hardy.
<persia> laga: I'm sure the debdiff is perfect, and that the debdiff is the preferred form of review by the SRU team: I just remember flamewars over SRUs not being in VCS properly for other packages, and want to try to keep you from getting hit.
<laga> persia: ah, now i understand your concerns. i'm being a little bit thick today, didn't get enough sleep.
<laga> as i said, the SRU was built from a fresh checkout. let's see what james_w says
<james_w> yes, it looks like your debdiff corresponds to the changes in bzr.
<persia> Are there any tags that need to be added?  I know many SVN maintainers use tags, but I don't know much about the BZR packaging workflow.
<persia> (and don't know what bzr-buildpackage expects)
<james_w> no, nothing should be required.
<james_w> this is a native package?
<james_w> ah no, you said it wasn't.
<persia> james_w: Thanks.
<laga> james_w, persia: thanks everyone for their feedback :)
<james_w> no problem.
<persia> laga: Sorry for the confusion.  I'm just paranoid about these things.
<laga> no problem :)
<persia> So, I failed to actually get much of anywhere with bug #194924 for hardy, and it's been up to date in Debian for a while.  Anyone think we ought do an SRU, or just a backport when the autosync runs?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 194924 in unison "Please upgrade unison to 2.27.57" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194924
<persia> Essentially, the hardy package is incompatible with everyone else (Windows, Mac, Debian, SuSE, Fedora).
<ScottK> persia: So really the only solution is to upgrade?
<persia> ScottK: Well, it's the easiest solution.  I suppose one could try to backport the communications protocol, but I'd think that would be higher risk.
<ScottK> Agreed.
 * persia should probably have milestoned this bug sometime earlier
<ScottK> persia: How about we do a source backport straight to hardy-backports and then after testing get it copied into -updates?
<ScottK> If it's upload the current package in Sid, I can do that.
<persia> ScottK: Works for me.  Would you mind giving it a shot, and commenting on the bug so the interested parties can test?
<ScottK> persia: I'll upload it, but won't have time to coordinate testing.
<persia> ScottK: Given the bug history, I think that if the -backports availability is noted in the bug, it will get sufficient testers.  I'll try to watch it a bit, and poke if it doesn't get enough in a week or two.
<ScottK> OK.  Then someone will have to approach pitti and ask him to copy it at some point.
<persia> Probably needs some motu-sru attention, but I think jdong was the person who pointed me at it in the first place, so that oughtn't be a big issue.
<persia> Right.  I'm up for doing that, if it gets sufficient positive responses to testing.  If people complain, then I'm tempted to leave it in -backports.
<ScottK> Sounds reasonable.
<persia> Note that the awkward bit is that Dapper <-> Hardy is compatible now, but with this it won't be.  It might be a good idea to leave it in -backports until almost .1 just to let people migrate.  Maybe I'll send an email to the ML once it's in backports to get more opinions.
<ScottK> If it breaks upgrades, I'd be tempted to leave it in backports period.
<ScottK> persia: You mean dapper <-> hardy synchronization, not dapper -> hardy upgrades, right?
<squentin> How should recommended optional dependencies be specified ? I though the ones in Recommends were installed by default, but it seems it's not the case with synaptic (see bug #8896)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 8896 in synaptic "Enable auto-install of packages in recommends field by default, like in aptitude" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8896
<nxvl> Intrepid server are officialy open, didn't them?
 * pochu starts requesting syncs
<pochu> nxvl: yes, see /topic in -devel
<ScottK> persia: Unison hardy-backport uploaded.  Now we wait for an archive-admin to accept it.  Today it pitti's day, but he's on vacation, so maybe slangasek will accept it on Monday.
<bddebian> Oh crap I was supposed to test an upload for Riddell
<nxvl> pochu: wooho \o/o
 * nxvl crates pbuilder chroot
<sebner> nxvl: I merged the new beagle version, ok?
<pochu> sebner: feel free to merge libbeagle too (I was the last to touch it) ;)
<RoAkSoAx> where can i find a list of server related packages to merge?
<sebner> pochu: I feel free ^^ just wondering why it's not on DaD
<sebner> RoAkSoAx: http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
<RoAkSoAx> thanks sebner  :)
<sebner> RoAkSoAx: mind the comments on the right side! ;)
<nxvl> sebner: yep, there is no problem :D
<pochu> sebner: it's in main
<nxvl> sebner: i just did it for my talk :D
<sebner> pochu: uhhh main. I don't want to touch main xD seems to be a sync though
<sebner> nxvl: ok, great then :D
<pochu> sebner: right, I'll ask seb128 to sync it then :)
<sebner> pochu: hey.
<pochu> sebner: I didn't even look at our changelog :P
<sebner> pochu: let me file a sync bug :P
<sebner> pochu: where?
<pochu> where what?
<sebner> <pochu> sebner: I didn't even look at our changelog :P
<pochu> ah, aptitude changelog libbeagle
<pochu> to look at our diff ;)
<sebner> pochu: hmm? I haven't touched libbeagle yet
<pochu> sebner: nevermind
<pochu> see you later!
<sebner> pochu: ^^, ok let me file a sync bug :)
<sebner> pochu: are you sure it's a sync or should I investigate further :)
<nxvl> does anyone has an idea of which packages provides vim's changelog syntax highlighitng?
<james_w> nxvl: hi
<james_w> vim I think
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, this might help ya' http://ubuntuftw.blogspot.com/2007/08/habilitar-syntax-highlighting-en-vim.html
<norsetto> vim? bah, real men use binary editors
<sistpoty> nxvl: vim-runtime
<sebner> heya norsetto
<sebner> sistpoty: ha!!!!!1
<norsetto> hey sebner
<sistpoty> hi sebner
<squentin> Nobody to answer my question ?  How should recommended optional dependencies be specified ? I though the ones in Recommends were installed by default, but it seems it's not the case with synaptic (see bug #8896)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 8896 in synaptic "Enable auto-install of packages in recommends field by default, like in aptitude" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8896
<sebner> norsetto: you may want to add a comment on my application
<sebner> sistpoty: you too :P
<norsetto> sebner: on the wiki you mean?
<sebner> norsetto: no, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-April/001072.html
<sebner> norsetto: but you are also invited to add something on the wiki :)
<norsetto> sebner: ah! The question is, do we REALLY REALLY want you around? hmmmm
<sebner> norsetto: ^^, feel free to write your honest opinion :)
<norsetto> sebner: what if I say no? Will you disappear?
<sebner> norsetto: hmm. no. I will spam u-u-s even more :P
<sistpoty> sebner: answered in the mc-thread ;)
<sebner> sistpoty: ah finally ^^. no. thanks :)
<norsetto> sebner: ach, have no choice then
<nxvl> sistpoty: thanx
<sistpoty> nxvl: at least from my guess that it's in /usr/share/vim/vim71/syntax/debchangelog.vim
<sebner> norsetto: ^^
 * nxvl HUGS norsetto without a reason
<nxvl> :D
<norsetto> nxvl: must be all the hair, but people usually finds me huggable :-)
<geser> nxvl: and check if you have vim or vim-tiny, I'm not sure if vim-tiny has syntax highlighting
<nxvl> geser: the file sistpoty send me is what i was looking for
 * nxvl fix bug and prepares patch
<sebner> does anybody know when this gcc upgrade thing is compleated?
<nxvl> norsetto: when are you arriving Prague?
<ScottK> FYI for people looking for stuff to do: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-May/003743.html
<norsetto> nxvl: as planned, let me check my reservation
<norsetto> nxvl: in principle landing 18 May 13:40
<nxvl> norsetto: so you are not going to make it fro FOSS Camp
<nxvl> norsetto: btw
<nxvl> norsetto: RoAkSoAx (Andres Rodriguez) is a Peruvian new contributor, he's part of the Peruvian LoCo Council also, and of course a friend of mine
<nxvl> norsetto: so please help him when you can, i will apreciate that very much
<nxvl> ScottK: plase take a look at Bug #225834
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225834 in vim "vim should highlight release +1 on changelog" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225834
<jdong> nxvl: that's not properly formatted for hardy or intrepid
<jdong> nxvl: IMO the first debdiff should be targeted against intrepid
<jdong> then one for hardy-proposed
<nxvl> jdong: so, you are saying: merge vim, add the highlight and then ask for a SRU?
<jdong> nxvl: preferably, yeah
<nxvl> jdong: ok i will do that
<jdong> nxvl: alternatively you can attach a SRU for hardy (which has target hardy-proposed) and correct versioning scheme
<jdong> s/has/requires/
<jdong> nxvl: both would earn brownies points :)
<nxvl> mm i think i'm using the correct versioning scheme
<jdong> sorry, yes, the versioning scheme is correct
<jdong> just s/hardy/hardy-proposed/
<ScottK> Actually I think it should be intrepid then hardy-backports.
<ScottK> I don't think it qualifies for SRU.
<jdong> I think a backport would be decent too
<ScottK> If people are wanting to use tools updated to know about Intrepid on Hardy, they shoud look in backports.  I think that's reasonable.
<ScottK> devscripts is already updated and I've asked for debchroot.
<nxvl> well
<ScottK> err
<ScottK> debootstrap
<nxvl> keep in mind this is my first post release time
<ScottK> nxvl: No problem.  Not being critical.  Educating you.
<nxvl> so i don't know how this -proposed or -backpored things goes on
<jdong> nxvl: backports directly pulls from Hardy; -proposed works as per !sru
<nxvl> ScottK: i don't feel i'm being critical, i'm just remaining you so you can gave me a little more information
<nxvl> :D
 * nxvl HUGS jdong and ScottK 
<ScottK> nxvl: OK.  I thought you were worried I was being critical of you.
<ScottK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates?action=show#head-9bac29d96da353649a97b4b1918c0b382b79a000
<jdong> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<jdong> and that's backports.
<nxvl> so, what you area saying is that my distribution should be hardy, but hardy-proposed
<nxvl> or as ScottK says hardy-backports
<nxvl> am i right?
<jdong> nxvl: well what scott is saying is that hardy-proposed's policy (SRU) will likely not allow for this low-impact feature addition
<ScottK> nxvl: Distribution should be intrepid.
<jdong> nxvl: i.e. it's not a critical bug in Hardy
<ScottK> Right.
<slytherin> Do we have any tag like proposed-sru for bugs so that one can decide which bugs to work on?
<jdong> nxvl: but Hardy Backports does allow such updates liberally
<ScottK> So get it in intrepid and then ask for a backport
<jdong> nxvl: hardy backports prefers to use things directly from intrepid
<jdong> nxvl: so the best action is to fix it in Intrepid first, then req a backport
<ScottK> slytherin: I'd look at the motu-sru bug list.
<nxvl> ScottK: yes, i mean after the intrepid inclusion
<ScottK> nxvl: From there the archive admins will do it automagically straight from intrepid.  No debdiff needed.  They have a tool for that.
<jdong> nxvl: requesting a backport from intrepid involves simply opening up a bug report in the hardy-backports product on Launchpad
<nxvl> ScottK: but for the diff or for the whole package?
<ScottK> nxvl: For the whole package.  We only need to mess with source if the package needs changes to specifically to be backported.  We try and avoid that.
<slytherin> ScottK: I am looking for bugs that need debdiffs and ï»¿may qualify for sru.
<ScottK> Then no.  I don't think we have such a tag.
<nxvl> ScottK: ok, thanks!
<nxvl> i will perform the marge later today
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> i'm going for now
<nxvl> thanks!
 * sistpoty is off again... cya
<sebner> heya jono :D
<jono> hi sebner
<pochu> sebner: it's a sync, our change is included in Debian here:
<pochu>    * debian/python-beagle.install:
<pochu>      + Make the python module path python version independent to make it
<pochu>        possible to change the default python version with a rebuild only.
<persia> ScottK: Yes, current Dapper <-> Hardy is compatible for sync.  Upgrades should work, but break compatibility.  I'm not sure of the right solution for -updates, but having it in -backports should help come to a conclusion.
<sebner> pochu: Yeah, I checked ^^
<pochu> ok, thank you
<sebner> pochu: the problem is that I can't test build it because of this uncompleted gcc upgrade thing
<ScottK> persia: I'm guessing the ideal solution would be to put the current Unison in dapper-backports.
<persia> ScottK: That might make sense.  To push the backport all the way back, and then look at pushing the new one to hardy -updates so that Hardy <-> Intrepid, etc. is working.  From what I understand, unison is planning to avoid this sort of thing in the future, where possible (which ought be easy for a project now in "maintenance mode").
<ScottK> persia: Yes, although Unison was in maintenance mode in 2005 when I last used it, so no guarantees.
<persia> ScottK: Really depends on whether some graduate student decides it's a good topic for another thesis :)
<ScottK> Exactly.
<ScottK> I've still got Dapper here, so I'll look into it.
<ScottK> After all, it was developed at the University I attended ...
<ScottK> pochu: Thanks for forwarding.
<norsetto> any kind soul willing to test bug 221399?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221399 in rkward "Not working in hardy x64" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221399
<james_w> Is there a standard DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS for compiling in debugging information?
<james_w> should I use nostrip for that? Or use "debug" or similar?
<james_w> This is extra stuff, over and above the symbol information that is covered by "nostrip"
<sebner> pochu: should I file the bug nevertheless?
<pochu> sebner: let's wait until we can ensure it still builds
<geser> james_w: why not use the existing dbg-sym packages?
<sebner> pochu: great. thanks
<sebner> geser: you merges suck. My wiki page says that I want to merge hot new stuff. you only have ~5-6 new upstream versions :P
<james_w> geser: this is more than the symbol table that is provided there. The program has an --enable-developer ./configure argument that adds more stuff to the code that is useful when debugging.
<geser> ah
<geser> sebner: then edit your wiki page :)
<sebner> geser: hrhr
<ScottK> sebner: Merge courier if you want an challenge.  I'm sure mok0 wouldn't mind.
<sebner> ScottK: WOOOW! O_o
<sebner> God bless DaD ^^
<ScottK> sebner: I'll warn you that the guy before mok0 that I suggested it to gave up on being a MOTU after he tried.
<sebner> geser: may you also want to add a comment on my application?
<sebner> ScottK: well if I'm not able to merge it I will be sad and ashamed but I won't quit ;)
<sebner> ScottK: or do you plan to get rid of me?
<ScottK> No.  Just warning you.
<ScottK> Also no need to be ashamed if it doesn't work out.  It's an advanced merge.
<sebner> ScottK: well I'm here since 4 months ;)
<norsetto> an eternity ...
<sebner> norsetto: ^^
<persia> I think it's more about having done > 100 merges than about the 4 months, really.
<sebner> persia: well. the final statistic said I did 134 uploads for hardy
<ScottK> sebner: Did you see my clamav mail?
<sebner> ScottK: yes, don't worry you'll make it ^^. I have enough todo with courier now :)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> what do we think about pushing changes to Debian rather than merging?
<sebner> geser: ah I just realised that you also commented on my application. thanks :)
<geser> sebner: are you happy now? :)
<sebner> LaserJock: we think reducing the delta is great
<sebner> geser: yes. makes me smile :)
<LaserJock> it seems to me that we are  pretty early into Intrepid so we have plenty of time to sync
<LaserJock> sebner: I was just looking at one of your merge bugs
<sebner> But it seems that norsetto failed :P
<LaserJock> * Merge from debian unstable, remaining changes: - debian/control: Fix a typo in the package description.
<norsetto> sebner: I'm simply moderated
<sebner> LaserJock: yep that was a stupid one
<sebner> norsetto: np ^^
<LaserJock> surely that is a diff we can send upstream
<sebner> LaserJock: see my comment ^^
<LaserJock> sebner: yes, but maybe we should do it *this* time :_0
<LaserJock> :-) rather
<sebner> LaserJock: ask the previous uploader for *not* doing it ;)
<LaserJock> gmsh is probably the same way
<x1250> Where is wxpython on hardy? people say python-wxgtk2.8 is on universe in gutsy, but on hardy universe there is no such package. Searching for wx results in no python related package on hardy universe.
<LaserJock> in fact, maybe we should spend a week or so trying to get rid of diffs?
<sebner> LaserJock: yeah my goal was to wait until they got accepted and uploaded and then report all back
<ScottK> x1250: It's there.
<LaserJock> sebner: but why not do it before and turn a merge into a sync?
<sebner> LaserJock: because merging is a lot more fun than syncing!
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> that's not a terribly convincing argument ;-)
<sebner> LaserJock: for me it is ^^
<ScottK> sebner: We need to actively keep the diff with Debian to a minimum or eventually we'll be a fork from Debian, not a downstream
<ScottK> sebner: Pushing stuff upstream to Debian is less fun, but IMO more important.
<sebner> LaserJock: Nevertheless. Stop complaining and start uploading and I'll take care that all important changes will make there way to ubuntu
<sebner> ScottK: yeah I know. I'm just joking. :)
<ScottK> OK.
<sebner> ScottK: Reducing the delta is also one of my goals ;)
<LaserJock> sebner: I know you're being light-hearted, but please don't tell me what to do :-)
<ScottK> x1250: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wxwidgets2.8/2.8.7.1-0ubuntu3/+build/542753
<sebner> LaserJock: it was more a good meaned advice ^^
<pwnguin> i hate autotools this much: [==================================] (not to scale)
<LaserJock> I would rather we *not* upload any more than we need to
<pwnguin> #
<pwnguin> #
<pwnguin> configure.ac:190: required file `${PO_MAKEFILE}.in' not found
<pwnguin> ack, sorry =/
<sebner> LaserJock: though we are still at the very start? Ok I can live with it if you reject all of them
<x1250> Uhm ScottK, strange thing, I aptitude updated and now I see a lot more wx related packages. And there it is: python-wxgtk2.8
<LaserJock> that we are at the start is all the more reason to turn a merge into a sync
<LaserJock> we have time for Debian to take changes
<ScottK> x1250: Dunno what to tell you.  It's been there all along.
<LaserJock> later on we won't have time and we'll just have to download
 * ScottK agrees with LaserJock.
<norsetto> x1250: thats scottk magic for you
<LaserJock> s/download/upload/
<LaserJock> sebner: I'm not going to reject your merges, I just may not upload them
<sebner> LaserJock: that means you won't do anything?
<LaserJock> which, considering how much I upload these days, is not really any lose ;-)
<LaserJock> I might leave a comment on the bug, but that'd be it
<LaserJock> if another MOTU feels differently they can sponsor the upload :-)
<sebner> LaserJock: k, you'll decide and I'll do what you want
<ScottK> sebner: I think he already suggested focus on getting stuff fixed in Debian.
<pochu> sebner: see it this way: as we are at the beginning of the cycle, there is no harm in waiting a bit to see if Debian incorporates our changes, and if they do, sync the package. If they don't, we have some months to merge the package, but we should aim to sync it.
<LaserJock> well, we need a good way to say "hang on I'm waiting for Debian"
<ScottK> LaserJock: That's one reason Dad has a spot for comments.
<LaserJock> sebner: what I would suggest would be for bugs that Debian might easily take (and feel free to ask if you don't know), would be to open the merge bug, assign yoruself, and forward your diff to Debain
<LaserJock> if Debian takes it you just convert the merge bug into a sync bug
<LaserJock> if not then we'll upload the merge
<LaserJock> in any case, the only way we're gonna get stuff upstream is to force it
<sebner> LaserJock: thanks for the advice :) I'll keep it in mind for my future work
<LaserJock> sebner: it's just my opinion, but in my experience people often do a "upload now and talk to debian later" and they never end up doing it
<sebner> LaserJock: you know what my passion is ;) no to be serious, you are totally right
<LaserJock> well, I know merging is fun
<norsetto> is it!?
<ScottK> The unitary diffs from Ubuntu that appear on packages.qa.debian.org are really hard to digest (sometimes they confuse me even when I did the Ubuntu upload).
<LaserJock> but actually, sending stuff upstream is pretty much the same
<LaserJock> norsetto: ohhh yeah!
<LaserJock> merging is MOTU Hopeful crack!
<ScottK> Breaking stuff down into a sensible bug report with a good patch makes getting stuff into Debian much easier.
 * norsetto definition of fun seems to be not in line with common knowledge
<ScottK> sebner: I've also seen people get MOTU before on the basis of lots of merging and little bug/new package work and then not do so well after.
<LaserJock> norsetto: what's your idea of fun?
<sebner> ScottK: that's also why I want to wait still some time before even thinking of applying
<norsetto> LaserJock: packaging wise, is bug hunting actually
<LaserJock> I agree
<LaserJock> but bug hunting often is not so fast-paced gratification
<LaserJock> blasting through 10+ merges a day gets your blood pumping
<LaserJock> or maybe I'm a nerd/freak
<sebner> LaserJock: I feel the same. I files >20 bug reports as you may can see
<sebner> *filed
<LaserJock> after a while though you start to realize crack isn't all that great for you
<LaserJock> :-)
<Son26> hi
<LaserJock> sebner: that edenmath.app diff (simply s/calcualtor/calculator/) has been with us since Edgy!
<sebner> LaserJock: Yes and I will be the one who is killing it
<LaserJock> ScottK: do you have any feeling on how we can deal with unresponsive Debain maintainers?
<sebner> LaserJock: just wondering why nobody before me did ;)
<LaserJock> my guess (since the last upload was by Debian QA) is that the Debian maintainer is pretty inactive
<ScottK> Package is probably orphaned or nearly so then.
<LaserJock> so how do we go about getting things fixed upstream in these situations
<ScottK> If it's a true upstream bug, bypass Debian and report it to the upstream.
<LaserJock> are these cases where we just have to bite the bullet and keep the diff?
<LaserJock> not true upstream
<LaserJock> in the short description the Debian maintainer just has a typo
<ScottK> If it's a packaging bug keep the diff or someone care enough to hijack the package in Debian.
<LaserJock> it's too bad Debian QA can't step in on things like that
<ScottK> Is there some team that the package would be good in?
<LaserJock> well, s/can't/doesn't/
<ScottK> Someone might hijack the package in some team's name.
<LaserJock> it's a Gnustep
 * ScottK has no idea.
<LaserJock> I don't know if Gnustep packages are team maintained
<LaserJock> I'm not sure who even uses them anymore
<ScottK> When I started with MOTU, I'd have uploaded that fix.  Now I think I'd just send it to Debian and not worry.  It's not worth maintaining a diff for.
<LaserJock> exactly
<LaserJock> ah, the package is oraphaned in Debian but has somebody interested in adoption
<LaserJock> and this particular bug was already filed by Kmos :-)
<norsetto> scottk, LaserJock: what would you do for a debian maintainer that answers "I couldn't care less, its your problem" ?
<Son26> ?
<ScottK> Ah.  So I'd contact that person and encourage them.  Offer some assistance in getting it fixed up.
<LaserJock> Son26: what's up?
<ScottK> norsetto: Either maintain the diff or if it qualifies as a serious bug in Debian NMU the package.
<norsetto> scottk: its a bug upstream, but doesn't show in debian
<ScottK> Ah.  Then get upstream to fix it.
<ScottK> In those cases I don't normally even report them to Debian.
<norsetto> scottk: upstream doesn't even have a bug tracker :-)
<norsetto> scottk: yes, sensible approach
<LaserJock> do they have a mailing list or email address?
<ScottK> Email the author.  Hope for the best.  Maintain the diff in the meantime.
<norsetto> LaserJock: not that I could find
<LaserJock> sounds like we're fairly stuck with it :-)
<LaserJock> I certainly don't mind maintaining diff that we need to
<norsetto> LaserJock: yes, thats the conclusion I came too :-(
<LaserJock> I'm just finding quite a bit of diff that is uneccesary to keep in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> it also makes it look like we don't give back
<LaserJock> or communicate with upstreams
<LaserJock> sebner: did you see that the bug has already been filed in Debian?
<LaserJock> 178 days ago
<sebner> LaserJock: sry, which one?
<LaserJock> edenmath.app
<LaserJock> the "calculator" typo
<sebner> LaserJock: yes, so what can we do?
<LaserJock> well, we can do one of two things
<LaserJock> we can just ask for a sync and leave the typo there until Debian fixes it
<LaserJock> or we can upload your merge and keep the diff
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> actually it's been adopted by a team
<sebner> LaserJock: we should send them a remindert
<LaserJock> perhaps if you bug them they'll upload a fix
<sebner> -t
<sebner> LaserJock: As I said ^^
<sebner> LaserJock: I'll do that tomorrow. thanks. I'm afk
<LaserJock> so you want to email Debian GNUstep maintainers
<norsetto> albert23: bedankt for bug 221399
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221399 in rkward "Not working in hardy x64" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221399
<albert23> norsetto: nessun problema
<sebner> gn8 folks
<norsetto> g'night all
<Syntux> night
<LaserJock> Syntux: btw, I thought your country was named after *me* ;-)
<LaserJock> but a Jordanian in my lab told me this was not the case :-)
<ScottK> My younger brother was born on December 7.  When he was little I showed him Franklin Roosevelt's speech about December 7, 1941 being a day of infamy.  I glossed over the 1941 part and told him the President was talking about him.
<ScottK> I was a great older brother, wasn't I.
<LaserJock> hahaha
<ScottK> persia: Current unison doesn't build on dapper.  It'd need someone who cares to look into what needs to be done to make it build/run.
<ScottK> LaserJock: I'm not kidding.
<crimsun> where does it fail?
<Syntux> LaserJock, HAHA you got a Jordanian in your lab?
<persia> ScottK: Can you paste a buildlog?
<ScottK> crimsun: debian/rules:22: /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/ocaml.mk: No such file or directory
<Syntux> LaserJock, what do you do for livin ?
<ScottK> I can't even build the source package.
<LaserJock> ScottK: were we wanting to do a new upstream release for Hardy?
<persia> heh.  That's going to be fun.
<ScottK> And yes, I did install ocaml-nox
 * Syntux thought they do testing on mouses not Jordanians :p
<LaserJock> Syntux: I"m a PhD Chemistry student, and yes
<Syntux> LaserJock, his name is Iyas ?
<ScottK> LaserJock: Yes and we didn't get it, so I'm having it shoved in hardy-backports.
<LaserJock> Syntux: no, Ali
<LaserJock> ScottK: why didn't you get it?
<Syntux> cool, anyway Good night
<ScottK> I'm not sure.  I will plead -ENOTIME to look into it before release.
<ScottK> I seem to find out the "And if you don't upgrade you will be incompatible with the whole fricking world" stuff after we release.
<LaserJock> ScottK: what I mean is, are you trying to do an SRU?
<mkrufky> slangasek: ping
<slangasek> mkrufky: hi
<mkrufky> you just marked bug 99107 as invalid
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 99107 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 "Feisty ships with OLD cx2341x mpeg encoder firmware" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99107
<mkrufky> the firmware shipping with ubuntu is not compatable with the drivers in the ubuntu kernel
<slangasek> mkrufky: I marked it as invalid /for intrepid/...
<slangasek> there is no linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 package in intrepid
<persia> LaserJock: Ne unison isn't compatible with old unison for syncs.  Everyone else has new unison.  We're looking first at a full suite of backports, and if that is clean, maybe doing an SRU for hardy at some point.  The trick is balancing it so that people upgrading to hardy don't have it break while people using hardy as LTS can still use it.
<slangasek> mkrufky: if this still affects Ubuntu 8.04 and intrepid, then we need to open separate tasks in launchpad pointing to the correct packages
<mkrufky> ah, ok
<mkrufky> ubuntu 8.04 is OK
<slangasek> ok, great :)
<LaserJock> persia: wouldn't getting it into -updates ASAP help rather than hinder the situation?
<mkrufky> 8.04 has the correct firmware -- size 376836
<mkrufky> gutsy was never fixed
 * slangasek nods
<LaserJock> persia: we are breaking compatibility with Dapper if we upgrade Hardy?
<mkrufky> a simple firmware replacement ... who do i have to {ping} to get that fixed?
<LaserJock> persia: and what if we upgrade Dapper as well?
<mkrufky> slangasek: the firmware shipping in 8.04 needs to also ship in gutsy
<persia> LaserJock: Well, that's one option.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-03
<LaserJock> I would love to see some stats on exactly what percentage of users have -backports enabled
<persia> LaserJock: I'm not sure if rushing -updates helps right now, as we'd break anyone using unison as part of their migration effort to hardy.
<persia> (unless we rushed -updates of a new upstream to all supported releases, but that's tricky)
<LaserJock> it just seems like a big issue to leave to -updates
<LaserJock> -backports rather
<slangasek> mkrufky: the bug is currently marked as 'verification-needed'; a proposed fix is available but no one has confirmed that it works, could you please do this following the process on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates?
<persia> LaserJock: Yeah, well, exactly two developers (jdong and I) were paying attention to it at all, and neither of us noticed when Debian uploaded to request a sync.
<LaserJock> but as you say, we could maybe copy from -backports to -updates
<mkrufky> argh
<slangasek> mkrufky: since it's hardware-specific, we're more dependent than usual on users for the verification of the fix
<mkrufky> slangasek: *I* proposed the fix
<Jazzva> Anyone willing to review a merge proposal for ksimus - bug 225499? Thanks :).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225499 in ksimus "Please merge ksimus from Debian unstable to intrepid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225499
<mkrufky> slangasek: i can propose it AND confirm it?
<ScottK> LaserJock: My thought was to get Unison into -backports and then copy into -updates from there.
<slangasek> mkrufky: yes - AFAICS there are currently /no/ confirmations that the package that was uploaded to -proposed correctly fixes the issue :/
<jdong> ScottK: why are we copying backwards-incompatible things into updates again?
<slangasek> mkrufky: so having your confirmation would put us well ahead of where we are now
<mkrufky> that sucks, slangasek -- i cannot roll back to gutsy -- i am on hardy now
<LaserJock> ScottK: that does have some good reasoning to it I guess, although ideally -proposed would be just as good
<ScottK> Jazzva: At this point in the cycle I'd be a lot more impressed with you getting the changed incorporated into the Debian package so we can sync it next month.
<mkrufky> slangasek: im a kernel developer -- i have to stay current
<slangasek> mkrufky: ah :/
<LaserJock> ScottK: but my guess is that -backports has a lot more users than -proposed ;-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: Ideally, but the threshold to get into backports is lower and we can at least point people there if they have problems while we sort it out.
<mkrufky> slangasek: i am one of the maintainers of v4l-dvb kernel subsystem, *and* I work for the hardware manufacturer of these boards
<mkrufky> slangasek: is that enough?
<slangasek> mkrufky: well, what we're looking for is confirmation that the package that the kernel team uploaded really fixes the issue - that no mistakes were made integrating the updated firmware
<ScottK> slangasek: Would you be willing to please accept the unison source backport for hardy-backports?
<jdong> can we really not find 3 people with said hardware to confirm the SRU?
<slangasek> ScottK: can it wait to Monday?
<mkrufky> slangasek: in my experience, people report bugs when things are broken, and they keep quiet when things work.  in the bug report, it was explained where to find the new firmware, and where to put it.  i would assume that users simply installed the new firmware and decided to not care to report the success
<ScottK> slangasek: Yes.
<jdong> IMO *wave business cards* ==> instant fasttracked updates out of standard procedures == wrong...
<mkrufky> slangasek: :-(  all i can say is that the 262144 firmware will no longer work -- we disabled it in the upstream kernel
<ScottK> jdong: Was that aimed at me or mkrufky?
<mkrufky> and i cant roll back to gutsy ...
<jdong> ScottK: not you
<ScottK> K
<slangasek> mkrufky: quite plausible, but then that leaves us stalled with regard to the SRU process; we don't push updates out to all our users, including the many users without this hardware (== bandwidth + download time), without at least getting some confirmation that it's a valid fix
<mkrufky> jdong: im not trying to fastrack this -- i reported this over a year ago
<Jazzva> ScottK: Ok, I'll try. Thanks :)
<jdong> mkrufky: understood, but there is an established verification procedure
<mkrufky> too bad nobody gave the attention while gutsy still was current
<jdong> mkrufky: and I'm trying to understand if it's truly prohibitively difficult to find 3 people to test/verify the fix?
<slangasek> ScottK: then wait to Monday it shall; I'm quite thoroughly occupied with SRU triaging at the moment :)
<ScottK> No problem.
<mkrufky> i gave my knowledge to the bug tracker, i gave the bug and i gave the solution.  i am not offended if nobody wants to test it.  it sucks for the users that dont know how to google for answers
<mkrufky> slangasek: thanks for explaining
<slangasek> sure
 * mkrufky goes home ... ttyl
<mkrufky> oops
<mkrufky> no..
<mkrufky> slangasek: another tidbit of info just crossed my desk
<mkrufky> Hauppauge licensed these firmware imaged to canonical
<mkrufky> Hauppauge gave canonical the correct firmware image, ubuntu found their own and shipped something other than what was agreed on the license
<mkrufky> anyway, it doesnt matter  -- hardy and intrepid have the correct images
<slangasek> hrm, does that imply there's no license to distribute this older firmware version?
<nxvl> ScottK: ping
<nxvl> ScottK: i see that vim as already been merged from sid
<nxvl> ScottK: and the change i wanted to add has ben already added
<nxvl> ScottK: so now i just need to ask for a backport?
<slangasek> also, if there's not a general license to /re/distribute the current firmware, then we may have a problem vis-a-vis the firmware's location in the archive...
<mkrufky> a license + correct firmware was provided.  ubuntu shipped other firmware.  i filed bug 99107 immediately.  saw no action.  users send bug reports to v4l / dvb mailing lists, instead of launchpad // users get new firmware, everybody is happy
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 99107 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 "Feisty ships with OLD cx2341x mpeg encoder firmware" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99107
<mkrufky> would have been nice to remove the intermediate step
<mkrufky> for the future all is well
<persia> mkrufky: If you really want to verify, you might try installing it from a liveCD (doesn't affect the installed system) and reporting the success.
<mkrufky> persia: good idea -- i'll do so over the weekend
<mkrufky> anyway, we need not waste any more time on this today -- thanks for the info
<mkrufky> gotta run...
<ffm> What's the first entry of a ubuntu changelog?
<ffm> (for a new package)
<azeem> something like " * Initial packaging"
<azeem> I think
 * persia prefers " * Initial Packaging (LP: #nnnnnn)"
<ScottK> Although that doesn't actually close the bug when uploaded.
<ScottK> nxvl: Sounds right.
<persia> ScottK: No, but it provides a reference.  The bit about not closing the bug is a bug, as I see it.
<persia> (plus it's good practice for looking at preparing a -1 for upload to Debian, where the bug does get closed)
<ScottK> Right.  Wasn't suggesting it shouldn't be there, just that people should be aware that it didn't follow the principle of least suprise very well.
<tbielawa> good evening folks
<persia> Principle of least surprise?  Launchpad?
 * persia likes launchpad, really, and is happy to use it, but finds it a constant source of surprise.  In humans, this is a good thing, so with appropriate anthropomistion, LP must be good.
<LaserJock> lol
<ScottK> jdong: nixternal successfully uploaded source backports today, so you may want to see if you have the powah too.
<ScottK> persia: I'll just say that my opinion of launchpad's design seems to be pretty consistent no matter which part of it I'm looking at.
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  Then you're not surprised.
<ScottK> Some of the special ways tend to suprise me, but the overall tenor of the design is not suprising.
<jdong> ScottK: oooh!
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what to think about LP
<ScottK> I expect it's just for Universe packages jdong.
<LaserJock> I've used bugzill a tad with Gnome and Fedora
<jdong> ScottK: ok
<LaserJock> and it seems ok, but not really spectacular
<tbielawa> I'm used to RT
<azeem> trac ftw
<ScottK> I suspect that the database engine part of it is really good.  Keeping so much data synchronized with pretty low latency is a tough thing.
<tbielawa> still finding out which buttons to push in LP :)
<ScottK> I just find the user facing part of it really hard to deal with.
<LaserJock> I don't mind it too much
<ScottK> I could forgive a lot more if the U/I were just faster.
<LaserJock> sometimes it's "nifty", sometimes it's "bummer", but in general it gets the job done
<LaserJock> I don't seem to have any problems with UI speed
<LaserJock> maybe it's the connection I'm on
<ScottK> I'm sitting on a 10mb internet pipe.  I don't think it's that.
<jdong> LaserJock: it's launchpad's fault
<jdong> I'm on a 100mbit connection with a 78ms latency to their server
<jdong> they take roughly 3-5s to answer any given bug tracker query for me
<LaserJock> hmm
 * cody-somerville blames python.
<ScottK> cody-somerville: I don't think that's it.
<wgrant> ScottK: There's no data to synchronise - it's all on one Postgres server.
<wgrant> I think with the amount of data some queries have to handle, it'd be hard to make it a whole lot faster.
<ScottK> I think it's excessive interest in a whizbang pretty web u/i and little interest in usability
<jdong> cody-somerville: heh I doubt it's python, google seems to make it work just fine :)
<LaserJock> jdong: 3-5s for searches?
<wgrant> jdong: Almost no user-facing code is Python, apparently.
<wgrant> Mainly internal development tools.
<jdong> LaserJock: yeah
<jdong> LaserJock: the minimum search time
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't do many of those, let me try it
<jdong> LaserJock: more complex queries take bloody longer
<LaserJock> I just go to individual pages
<ScottK> Even with those.
<ffm> Hey, how do I create a REVU account?
<ScottK> I look at a PTS package page and how fast that loads and an LP package page and the wait difference is substantial.
<wgrant> ffm: Join ~revu-uploaders, and upload something.
<ffm> wgrant, I joined, but my auth is not accepted.
<ScottK> !revu | ffm
<ubottu> ffm: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<LaserJock> ok, I guess I just did a search and it took 12s
<wgrant> ScottK: They're completely different. One has to perform DB queries, and one is static pages.
<ScottK> wgrant: That's an implementation detail.  As a developer the perform similar functions for me.
<ScottK> the/they
<ScottK> One with waiting, one without.
<wgrant> True.
<LaserJock> I guess speed just doesn't matter for me too much
<wgrant> Note that you can tell if it's LP or you by looking at the end of the HTML for any edge page.
<LaserJock> "at least 59 queries issued in 12.04 seconds"
<ffm> wgrant, the wiki page isn't too clear.
<wgrant> LaserJock: Ow.
<wgrant> Nice quick queries.
<LaserJock> it's a bit of a slow day
<wgrant> ffm: You need to upload something before you get an account.
<ffm> oh....
<jdong> wgrant: haha
<jdong> that's a GREAT response time :)
<LaserJock> I really like PTS
<LaserJock> but overall Launchpad does quite a bit more
<ffm> wgrant, is "Not running dinstall." a normal output message for dput?
<LaserJock> though i'm not sure if all of it's needed
<jdong> yes, that's normal
<wgrant> ffm: Correct.
<ScottK> LaserJock: It does do quite a bit more and it is also much better integrated.
<LaserJock> I don't find BTS to be as easy to look at
<ScottK> But, at what cost.  I mostly end up typing urls/tab completing to navigate, so all the whiz bang navigation features don't actually manage to help me much.
<LaserJock> but it's got some good features
<LaserJock> do the whiz bang navigation features get in the way?
<wgrant> IMO Malone is better than BTS, except for the slowness and lack of version tracking.
<ScottK> I think they're a big part of the page renderin gtime.
<StevenK> I tend to type out a full URL, like a source package, and then navigating from there.
<LaserJock> wgrant: the version tracking was what I was thinking of
<LaserJock> StevenK: me as well
<wgrant> StevenK: I think that's normal use.
<wgrant> Does anybody know how to get to a sourcepackage page otherwise?
<LaserJock> ScottK: you think? I have no idea
<LaserJock> wgrant: yes
<wgrant> Oh! How?
<LaserJock> From the Launchpad front page
<LaserJock> you go to the Ubuntu page
<ScottK> LaserJock: Mostly I know it seemed much slower after they rolled out the beta css based pages.
<LaserJock> then search for the package
<LaserJock> then find the right one in the search results
<wgrant> Ah, so that searches sources?
<LaserJock> and binary I believe
<wgrant> Wow.
<LaserJock> it can get really messy
<azeem> does packages.u.c have a link to the launchpad page?
<wgrant> That's one fugly list.
<ScottK> Yes.  It does although there's no guarantee that an exact match will even be in the first 100 results.
<tbielawa> does anyone have any apps they used to query and interact with the LP platform?
<ScottK> azeem: No.  P.U.C is not done by Canonical.
<StevenK> ScottK: Some of the time has to be attributed to Firefox's rendering, since it doesn't actually begin rendering until it has the full source in a parse tree
<wgrant> It also seems to think that it should put inexact matches first.
<tbielawa> seems like there is at least two I saw for debian tracker
<azeem> ScottK: but sponsored by it I thought
<tbielawa> something, gui
<LaserJock> azeem: no
<slangasek> azeem: no, djpig runs it up until now
<slangasek> (and he wants out :)
<azeem> slangasek: he can do whatever he wants with a .u.c site?
<azeem> well, ok
<wgrant> tbielawa: python-launchpad-bugs works sort of, but a proper Launchpad API is coming RSNÂ®
<wgrant> And has been for ages.
<LaserJock> azeem: he hosted it personally
<LaserJock> azeem: I assume packages.u.c was a redirct
<ScottK> StevenK: True, but Firefox's ideas about rendering aren't new.  They are an aspect of the system in which LP lives and should properly be considered in the design.
<LaserJock> wgrant: I think it actually may be RSN :-)
<wgrant> Firefox's rendering isn't *that* sluggish.
<wgrant> LaserJock: It has been deferred repeatedly.
<wgrant> But we might see it for 1.2.5, I guess.
<LaserJock> wgrant: I know, but I have semi-reliable sources
<ScottK> Konqueror wants all the images downloaded before it will show you anything (just to increase the fun factor).
<wgrant> ScottK: Even if you specify the size?
<ScottK> I haven't actually investigated it much.
<ScottK> I just watch the number of images increase in the lower left corner until it says x of x images downloaded and then the page appears.
<tbielawa> wgrant: it's a library, that makes me sad. no app yet
<LaserJock> jdong: btw, thanks for the HandBrake suggestion, today I got Bourne Supremacy and Pirates of the Caribbean on my iPod :-)
<wgrant> tbielawa: Correct. It's too slow.
<jdong> LaserJock: fantastic to hear :)
<jdong> LaserJock: now let's pounce on lucidfox the next time he comes in :)
<jdong> LaserJock: he was the last person to attempt packaging it IIRC :)
<LaserJock> oh, that would be nice
<LaserJock> I went the route of least resistance and got the OS X version
<tbielawa> lets hear some good stories. does anyone have any bug trackers they are quite fond of?
<jdong> LaserJock: ah :) that's nice too
<jdong> tbielawa: as a developer I enjoy /dev/null
<jdong> it makes my life happier
<tbielawa> :-|
<LaserJock> I like gmail+tomboy :-)
 * slangasek runs away
<jdong> rofl
<crimsun> there are no boogs.
<ScottK> To put the speed/convenience question in perspective, yesterday I was checking Ubuntu diffs to see if I could request syncs and I just started looking at the Ubuntu patch in PTS rather than try to find anything out about the package from LP.
<jdong> I like using OpenOffice Base
<jdong> it's faster than launchpad
<ScottK> It was easy/faster.
<jdong> (sadly that's probably true... too...)
<tbielawa> oh this is neat, OOB
<LaserJock> ScottK: it really bugs you that much?
<ScottK> I actually like bugzilla.
<LaserJock> bugzilla isn't too bad
<ScottK> I can pull up the Ubuntu patch and review it faster than I can find the debian/changelog info in LP.
<LaserJock> but to be honest I'm more confused by bugzilla's ui than I am with LP's
<ScottK> Yes.  As U/I's go, the current LP U/I isn't extremely confusing.  I just think it's more confusing than that pre-beta U/I.
<ScottK> So it's on a down hill slide.
<LaserJock> anything Sourceforge is rough for me
<ScottK> There trackers aren't so great.
<LaserJock> their email archives and bug tracking are uggg
<tbielawa> SF is rough
<ScottK> Yeah.
<tbielawa> admining a project there is sick nasty weird the first time
<LaserJock> I've done a little with savannah, it's not too bad
<slangasek> nxvl: I don't understand your last follow-up to bug #189616
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 189616 in dovecot "connection problems under load with hardy dovecot" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/189616
<ffm> Hey, my package hasn't appeared on REVU, and its been 30 mins.
<ffm> Hello...
<sladen> ffm: has it appeared now.  You spoke just after an xx:30
<sladen> ffm: Hello...
<ffm> sladen, No.
<sladen> ffm: what was your upload?
<sladen> last it there is kgrubeditor
<ffm> sladen, "thinkcspy" was the package name.
<sladen> what was your dput command to upload it?
<ffm> sladen,
<ffm> sladen, dput revu thinkcspy2_2.0.0alpha1-1_source.changes
<wgrant> ffm: Have you had the keyring synced since you joined the team?
<persia> slangasek: Surely s/i be/it be/, no?
<ffm> wgrant, no, would that be an issue?
<wgrant> ffm: It would.
<slangasek> persia: tried that already, it doesn't clarify it for me :)
<wgrant> I'll sync it, then you'll need to try again.
<persia> slangasek: Ah.  I read it as a request for the upload to the PPA to be reviewed and processed as a possible SRU.  I may be mistaken, but it somehow seems wrong that if the software isn't working as shipped for that bug reporter that a custom fix is applied.
<slangasek> persia: oh, well, it certainly is in line for SRUhood, but turnaround on testing (since we're not to the bottom of the bug yet) is probably faster using a PPA for now
<persia> slangasek: Makes sense: I'm just trying to interpret the comment :)
<slangasek> persia: you may be right, thanks :)
<ffm> wgrant, still no dice
<ffm> but I'll wait a while.
<wgrant> ffm: The sync just finished.
<jdong> 'da SRUhood :)
 * jdong likes that
<wgrant> ffm: gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found
<wgrant> ffm: What's your Launchpad username?
<ffm> wgrant, ~ffm
<wgrant> ffm: The key you used is not associated with your Launchpad account.
<ffm> oops.
<ffm> wgrant, fixed.
<wgrant> ffm: The keyring is resyncing. I'll advise you when to upload again.
<nxvl> slangasek: as i understand it, mathiaz fix it, and upload it on his ppa
<nxvl> slangasek: but i don't understand if he's going to include it on hardy or just publish the patch inthere
<slangasek> nxvl: he's provided a test package that will allow us to /verify/ whether we've identified the problem; we haven't gotten to the root of the problem yet
<nxvl> slangasek: oh! ok ok
<nxvl> slangasek: but did you know if mathiaz reproduced the problem?
<ffm> wgrant, I don't have to resync my keys, do I?
<nxvl> slangasek: cause i can't
<wgrant> persia: I believe all MDT stuff is up and running on Intrepid now.
<wgrant> ffm: No.
<slangasek> nxvl: we think the problem is one of hitting a login limit, that wasn't enforced in the dapper version of dovecot
<persia> wgrant: Excellent.  If you don't mind, I'll remove the "currently offline" :)  How about UEHS?
<slangasek> nxvl: so mathiaz can reproduce hitting the limit, yes
<nxvl> ScottK: mm, i think i better wait until ibex+1 is announced and fix this "issue" on ibex
<wgrant> persia: I've already removed that.
<nxvl> slangasek: so, the problem is that the default value of the limit is rejecting connections?
<wgrant> persia: UEHS will take some time longer. It needs various extra bits and pieces like PostgreSQL.
 * nxvl downloads the package
<persia> wgrant: Heh.  I guess I hit cache.
<slangasek> nxvl: the problem is that a) there's no logging to let you know you've hit the limit, b) the enforcement of the limit is an upstream "bugfix" post-dapper that has effects that were surprising, c) login processes may or may not be reaping properly, we don't know yet
<wgrant> ffm: Try to upload again, please. Tell me when it's done, so I can process it immediately.
<wgrant> Ah, done already, I see.
<nxvl> slangasek: that's what i thougt
<persia> Regarding UEHS, not such a hurry: according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule we've about 9 weeks for open clears, and another 9 for reviewed clears.
<ffm> wgrant, I just tried and got a 553 error
<wgrant> Gah, it just hit another indentation issue.
 * wgrant fixes.
<ffm> wgrant, done.
<wgrant> ffm: Yay, it didn't crash this time.
<ffm> wgrant, woot
<wgrant> ffm: It's on revu.ubuntuwire.com now.
<ffm> wgrant, I see. Thanks muchly.
 * wgrant throws some whitespace at RainCT.
<nxvl> slangasek: so the fix for now is to warn the user about this issue but not to "fix" it?
<slangasek> nxvl: potentially so, yes
<slangasek> well - dovecot should log something when it hits the limit
<slangasek> so that it's easier to troubleshoot
<nxvl> slangasek: yes, but if i want a limit (i.e. 50 connection) i want that there is 50 conections, not less
<nxvl> slangasek: but that's an issue in dovecot, not ours
<ffm> wgrant, so, how do I ask nicely for my revu to be revu'ed?
<wgrant> ffm: I don't deal with that side of things much, so I'm not sure.
<ffm> Anyone else?
<nxvl> btw
<persia> ffm: No information has yet been announced for REVUing for intrepid.  For hardy, there was a special day once a week (Mondays) during which there was a commitment to review packages, and some packages were reviewed more often.  You might paste the REVU URL here, but I doubt many developers will be reviewing before UDS.
<nxvl> does anyone knows what was about the tread of splitting mentors in 2 groups?
<nxvl> persia: sis you remember this?
<nxvl> s/sis/did
<persia> nxvl: I think that our indomitable Mentoring Facilitator became swamped with the discrepancy between mentoring requests and mentoring offers, and hasn't had time to follow-up.
<slangasek> nxvl: currently, there's no evidence that the connection limit is lower than what is documented; part of the problem is that there are some perverse IMAP clients in existence that make multiple connections
<nxvl> slangasek: that's what i'm talking about
<nxvl> slangasek: i know the issue is on the clients
<nxvl> slangasek: but there must be any way to make it work as it is
<nxvl> s/is/should/
<nxvl> persia: mm, that's bad
<nxvl> persia: it would be really nice to have pre-motu mentors
<slangasek> nxvl: if you mean associating multiple client connections with one another so that they don't count against the login limit, then I don't think that's either practical or reasonable
<persia> nxvl: Write up a plan and check with the Mentoring facilitator.  There's a decent chance that you could be part of getting it implemented.
<nxvl> slangasek: mm, yes, you are right
<nxvl> slangasek: well, a warning should fix the problem, now the sysadmins know whats going on
<nxvl> persia: i will talk to norsetto tomorrow or in the worst case at UDS
 * ScottK is still looking for some evidence that the mentoring program is helping.
<nxvl> persia: because i plan to become a MOTU this release cycle, and there are lots of things i must learn about being a motu
<nxvl> ScottK: don't
<nxvl> ScottK: there isn't any :D
<nxvl> ScottK: at least the way it is now
<ScottK> That's my expectation.  I didn't think it was a great idea to start with and haven't seen anything to change my mind.
<nxvl> ScottK: as you said before, ubuntu-classroom should't exist as well as the motu-mentors list
<ScottK> ubuntu-classroom is different as that's for all kinds of things.
<nxvl> it only splits the community in contributors and developers
<nxvl> which shouldnt't happend
<persia> I'm not sure I'm opposed to the motu-mentors mailing list, but it's purpose has become confused with the MOTU Mentoring program.
<nxvl> persia: and what was about this 3th team you were proposing
<ScottK> persia: I don't see the need.
<nxvl> persia: the monkeys of the universe or something like this
<ScottK> I don't know what need motu-mentoring list provides that the regular motu-ml can't cover just fine.
<persia> ScottK: I believe the idea was to support assistance outside of IRC, so that if nobody here could answer the question, it could be asked somewhere.  It's not used that way.
<ScottK> Right.  I think that's on topic for the regular list.
<ScottK> I don't see a need to segregate such mails.
<ScottK> Back in a bit.
<persia> ScottK: Makes sense.  Like I said, I'm not sure I'm opposed, whereas I was certainly opposed to how the MOTU Mentoring program started (although I can imagine there existing a solution)
<persia> nxvl: That was an available identity for Prospective Decelopers are listed on https;//wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers, and might have carried some set of permissions to reduce the number of things a prospective developer need do to "sign up".  I've been convinced that it's not that useful until LP-based mailing lists are more central, and the LP entitlements matrix is less opaque.
<tbielawa> whoa
<persia> s/are/as/
<nxvl> mm
<nxvl> that makes sense
<nxvl> well, i will wait until i feel ready to become a motu to start thinking in those things
 * jdong grumbles about firefox mouse gesture usability
<jdong> they implemented 8-way directions
<ScottK> nxvl: You might consider joining the new universe-contributors team.  I think you've certainly got a good record of sustained contribution.
<jdong> such that if you drag left and in the process go down 10 pixels, it registers as south-west-ish
<tbielawa> is there a tolerance setting?
<jdong> tbielawa: looking now, but settings are no excuse for poor defaults
<ScottK> jdong: I find that most of my Firefox usability issues are solved by using Konqueror.
<nxvl> ScottK: i was asking about it, it is already implemented? cause daniel was looking for a name for it
 * nxvl opens LP
<ScottK> nxvl: Look at the archive for the motu council mail list.  There are already several applications being processed.
<jdong> diagonal tolerance: 60%
<jdong> so if you're within 60% of what's considered a "diagonal" then it registers a diagonal.
<ScottK> jdong: Firefox is an example, IMO, that didn't know when they were done.
<jdong> lovely.
<tbielawa> ...dpkg was cool, simple -- effective... pdebuild is frustrating
<tbielawa> *dpkg-buildpackage
<jdong> tbielawa: pdebuild is more advanced though
<tbielawa> Ya
<jdong> tbielawa: it has to set up an entire virtual ubuntu install
<tbielawa> I am forcing my7self to use it so I can make this intrepid build
<jdong> tbielawa: and for that, it's MUCH better at testing
<ScottK> FF was supposed to be a simple/lightweight alternative to the Mozilla suite, but it hasn't been that for a long time.
<jdong> tbielawa: from personal experience I've screwed up test build results before because my host system has a few 3rd party packages
<jdong> using pdebuild/pbuilder is very important to proper development :)
<tbielawa> jdong: so you figured out your pbuild pretty quick then huh
<jdong> ScottK: firefox3 fixes most of their resource usage issues, but the hardy version shiped with some nasty bugs
<jdong> such as the urlclassifier sync lag
<jdong> ScottK: I do love konqueror. its UI is truly non-blocking threaded
<ScottK> tbielawa: There's a script in ubuntu-dev-tools called pbuilder-dist that assists in automating a lot of the pbuilder setup.  You might look at that.
<jdong> tbielawa: well it took me a while to get started with it but afterwards it becomes second nature
<tbielawa> ScottK:  ohhhhhhm I'll check that out right niow
<ScottK> FF 1.0 was great.  The ones since then, not so much.
<nxvl> ScottK: mm, i will search documentation about the process :S
<nxvl> damn i need to prepare my list of contributions and find some sponsors again
<nxvl> i will hit the motu council at UDS
<nxvl> :D
 * nxvl loves prague
<persia> nxvl: UDS is precisely the wrong time to formally apply to the MC for anything.  Best times are end-UDS through about BetaRelease.
<nxvl> persia: but at prague i can cry in front of you :D
<persia> nxvl: Well, if you really, really, really have a desire to do so.
<nxvl> persia: i'm just joking
<nxvl> at pregue i will present peruvian LoCo team to the LoCo Council, 2 presentations are quite to much for a week
 * nxvl writes his applications for -contributors
<persia> nxvl: What's your LP ID?
<nxvl> persia: nvalcarcel
 * persia can never remember how to spell valcarcel
<nxvl> persia: i have problem with your lastname too, so we are ok :D
<persia> nxvl: You already have all the rights and priveleges appertaining unto the -contributors team.  Unless something changes, no point applying.
<nxvl> i do?
<nxvl> how?
<nxvl> oh!
<nxvl> ok ok
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, i'll try follow your footsteps... you are my idol... lol hheheeh
<nxvl> so, you mean that even not being part of contributors i already have all the privileges -contributor gave to new people
<tbielawa_smk_brk> ScottK: pbuilder-dist is _exactly_ the kind of tool I was looking for
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: go learn some packaging and shut up
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: i don't see you name on the changelog
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: so go and merge something
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, i will i will as soon as i finish stuying for my CCNA exan later tonight
<tbielawa_smk_brk> ScottK:  it felt earlier like making one change was going to equate to manually making it a few different ways (inprepid, debian, etc) if I was going to be a nice dev
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: i'm hearing that since hardy....
<wgrant> RoAkSoAx: Chapter, subject, or final?
<RoAkSoAx> wgrant, chapter 10 and 11 of Module 1
<RoAkSoAx> CCNAv4 Exploration
<wgrant> Ah, that evil v4.
<ScottK> tbielawa_smk_brk: Great.  Thanks LaserJock and RainCT (not here right now).  That's their work.
<nxvl> tbielawa_smk_brk: pbuilder rocks
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, at least i try one this time.. and got a sync :)
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: yep, at least
<RoAkSoAx> wgrant, yeah v4... it's fun :)
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: that's why i'm not going to aqp to slap you
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, some guy that has a company here wants me to help him doing conferences about ubuntu and stuff so i might be needing you here in a couple months :P
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: if it is weekend, there is no problem
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: BUT my girlfrind goes with me :P
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, haha ok i will let you know... :)
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: not, really my girlfriend doesn't need to go, but it will be great if she goes :D
<persia> Anyone feel like some testing?  Tracking down anything in http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/unchanged/unchanged_since_warty that doesn't work in one way or another would make for a fairly easy target.  If nothing else, some of these would benefit from having -dbgsym packages, and many might FTBFS.
 * nxvl looks
<TheMuso> persia: Whats the best approach for getting a -dbgsym package?
<wgrant> TheMuso: Rebuild.
<TheMuso> I thought as much, but wanted to be sure.
<persia> TheMuso: Upload it.  If I remember correctly, we've only build -dbgsym since mid-feisty or so, so anything not updated since edgy or earlier that would generate a symbols table (e.g. compiled C or C++) doesn't have one.
<persia> s/build/built/
<TheMuso> Right.
<ScottK> persia: It might be nice to have the union of that list and the FTBFS list from wgrant
<ScottK> wgrant's Hardy rebuilds
<persia> wgrant: Is that possible?
<kees> TheMuso: if you install "pkgbinarymangler" in your build chroots, you'll get -dbgsym packages locally
 * persia gives complete credit for the unchanged_since_quux lists to wgrant
<TheMuso> kees: Right, I'm just weighing up whether the package I'm looking at needs them, and I don't think so.
<persia> kees: Right, but these are packages that haven't been rebuilt in the archives in the past few years, meaning any apport reports are useless.
<wgrant> ScottK: I can try to arrange that.
<wgrant> Hm, Warty really was quite a while ago!
<persia> (and isn't it "pkg-create-dbgsym" that needs to be in the chroot?)
<ScottK> Then maybe we make an automatic removal request script and feed that list into the removal script.
<wgrant> UEHS almost seems to be working now.
<persia> ScottK: Why removal?  A number of them are doc packages or data packages, and still valid and useful, unless you're looking at an intersection, rather than a union.
<kees> persia: yeah, sorry, I was trying to say you could verify it builds and get local dbysyms at the same time
<ScottK> Right.  I said untion, but was thinking intersection.
<ScottK> union even
<persia> kees: Sure, but for these, it's likely that they won't get -dbgsym by natural attrition anytime soon, so it might make sense to force it.
<kees> persia: right, absolutely.
<persia> ScottK: Ah, for intersection, I'd agree it's an interesting list for a look, but some of the FTBFS could be easy, and the binaries may be in use (just because we didn't rebuild it doesn't mean we didn't ship it, and users don't use it)
<kees> I did something similar for main during gutsy to get the stack protector activated.
<persia> kees: Actually, you'd probably like to see even more rebuilds, to use your shiny new flags :)
<kees> I'll likely do it again for intrepid
 * kees phears hiss flags a little
<kees> er his
<wgrant> Heh.
<wgrant> Rightly so.
<persia> heh
<RoAkSoAx> i would like to do an easy FTBFS :) since im just learning packaging =)
<persia> RoAkSoAx: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ is a good place to start, although I don't know how many easy ones will show up before the autosync really gets going.
<RoAkSoAx> persia, thanks =)
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: ï»¿https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | 8.04 is released: Let's fix any SRU-worthy bugs before the users try the package. | Intrepid open | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/
<persia> Did the fortran transition not complete for Hardy, or is http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ not correct?
<wgrant> persia: That looks fine to me.
<wgrant> Odd to see that g77 is gone, though...
<persia> The two that made me wonder were g77 and libgfortran1
<ScottK> persia: We finished in -updates.
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  OK.  Just skew then.  Is everything from updates in intrepid now?
<ScottK> persia: I'm pretty certain not as I know I have at least one upload to do.
<persia> ScottK: OK.  Do you know if anyone is tracking it?  Be a shame for the autosync to stomp on something.  I'm up for a few blind uploads if there's a list to track.
<ScottK> persia: Not sure.  I considered that a motu-sru responsiblity.
<persia> ScottK: Hmmm.  I'm of two minds about it, but I can understand that assignment.
<persia> Anyone from motu-sru tracking those?
<ScottK> Dunno.  /me isn't in motu-sru.
 * ScottK blames jdong.
<persia> LaserJock, imbrandon, DktrKranz2, TheMuso, jdong: Anyone looking at pushing all the -updates into intrepid before autosync?
<TheMuso> persia: I've pushed the couple of updates I was responsible for, but as for the others, I don't have time now, I will tomorrow however.
<persia> TheMuso: Do you need a hand?  I've a signing key, but don't know what needs hitting (or if there is a list).
<TheMuso> persia: I don't really have a list either. I was just going to go through my SRU bug mail and have a look, but as I said, I've no time today. As it is I'm about to head off to get ready to head out.
<persia> TheMuso: Understood.  Have a good afternoon.
<crimsun> pavucontrol will likely warrant hardy-backports.
<ScottK> persia: I just forward-ported the one SRU I sponsored.
<persia> ScottK: Great.  Just to expand on my "two minds" point: I think motu-sru has an interest in pushing them into intrepid as part of SRU management, and that motu-release has an interest in getting them pushed into intrepid before autosync so that the upload doesn't become invalid and gets tracked by the merge tools.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> persia: It appears to me that autosync is running now, so part of that is OBE.
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  Nevermind then.
 * persia determines to be more careful to schedule available time between release and autosync start in October
<ScottK> There's currently 15,000+ packages sitting in a needs building state, so I'm pretty sure that's autosync.
<persia> That would be autosync indeed.
<wgrant> The buildds should get through them much, much more quickly this time.
<wgrant> queue-builder won't stall for 1.5 hours any more.
<persia> wgrant: Why?  Better hardware, or lots of 10-second failures?
<wgrant> persia: Soyuz not sucking so much.
<persia> Ah, even better
<wgrant> So we won't have buildds sitting idle for the best part of each hour.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: you can't say that soyuz sucks.  or did suck.
<wgrant> I think that queue-builder's performance six months ago was pretty good evidence that that part of Soyuz sucked.
 * persia notes that "queue-builder has directly contributed to a significant improvement in Soyuz performance, with a reduction in machine wear, and increase in capacity that should allow for a larger volume of package improvements in the intrepid cycle" is what was likely meant by "Soyuz not sucking so much"
<wgrant> Hah. Probably.
<wgrant> Too many upstream sites are very slow :(
 * persia wants a marketing droid module in filters
<wgrant> You make a remarkably good one.
<wgrant> I've not seen one better.
<persia> wgrant: Yes, but it requires me to think.  Be better with cut & paste.
 * ScottK imagines that dholbach's next community initiative (following up on 5 and really-fix-it) might be "Let's suck out the suckage."
<persia> Erm.  That's just not good copy.
<ScottK> You're a better marketing droid than I am.
<Hobbsee> maybe ScottK will come up iwth a community initiative
<ScottK> Actually I think that the get rid of kmos initiative has had (eventually) a remarkably positive effect on the community.  I claim credit for that one.
<ScottK> Of course I had help ...
 * bddebian hopes he never gets on ScottK's really bad side :)
 * wgrant evicts bddebian.
<persia> What?  How can one evict a deity.  Deities, by very nature, are supralegal
<bddebian> What's with this wgrant stuff? :)
<persia> bddebian: He's succombed to the irresistible force of identification.
<wgrant> Did the DEHS devs deliberately break all but one of my ~20 diff hunks, or was I very unluck?
<wgrant> *unlucky
<Hobbsee> ScottK: nice.  but that was months ago.
<Hobbsee> my community initiatives failed, so it's someone else's turn.
<tbielawa> has anyone else had an issue with pbuilder-dist failing making a sid environment?
<tbielawa> I don't like to ask but I'm not getting anywhere with it (going back to regular pbuilder --dist... --mirror..) now
<Hobbsee> tbielawa: pastebin the erorrs?
<tbielawa> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9672/
<tbielawa> (same error occurs using pbuilder and pbuilder-dist methods)
<pwnguin> is it really nessecary to duplicate AUTHORS in debian/copyright?
<persia> pwnguin: Only the names and dates.  Other information need not be there.
<pwnguin> fun
<tbielawa> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9674/ here's the entire thing if you're interested
<ffm> Any idea when the REVU instructions will be released for intrepid?
<persia> pwnguin: Don't forget to reverify against all the source files as well :)
 * nixternal is getting a headache updating all of these new kde4 packages
<Hobbsee> ffm: they haven't changed...
<persia> nixternal: Any idea when the next REVU day is scheduled?
<ffm> Hobbsee, I ment the next REVU day .
<nixternal> ya, I am going to shoot either the week prior to UDS or a week or 2 after UDS
<nixternal> I am going to pick a day where I can be around that entire day w/o any interruptions
<persia> nixternal: OK.  The more advance warning you can give, the more we can all prepare to also set aside time :)
<ffm> !uds
<ubottu> The Ubuntu Developer Summit is being held May 19th to May 23rd in Prague, Czech Republic. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid for more info
<ffm> nixternal, How about the week prior?
<nixternal> ya, I am thinking the week prior may be best
 * Hobbsee suspects merges are more important.
<nixternal> I am going to schedule repeating REVU days either once a month or bi-weekly....work people to death!
<Hobbsee> oh dear.
<persia> Hobbsee: *more* important?  While I'm all in favour of working on bugs and updates rather than new packages, I'm not sure that the people who work on one are exactly the same people who work on the other.
<Hobbsee> persia: well, at least for the core stuff, which the new packages build-dep on.
<wgrant> Can people please test various bits of REVU as much as possible? There have been some changes lately, and I've fixed three issues in the past 24 hours, so there are likely more.
<persia> nixternal: Once a month?  That'll be ~75-100 reviews each time!
<nixternal> persia: how did you run it before?
<nixternal> bi-weekly?
<persia> Hobbsee: I don't imagine anything from REVU getting in until the third REVU day or so.
<Hobbsee> persia: ah, that's true
<persia> nixternal: 49 hours every Monday.
<nixternal> hrmm
<persia> biweekly might be better: I only got good attendance by reviewers every second or third week.
<nixternal> ya, that's what I was thinking....attendance was an issue with prior REVU days
<nixternal> did you have a REVU Day wiki page, or did you just add the date to the MOTU page?
<persia> I'm just thinking that monthly is tight with only ~15 weeks.
<ffm> Are the errors I get http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/thinkcspy2-0805030317/lintian something to worry about?
<persia> I just updated the wiki pages to say it was every Monday, all timezones.  As we got closer to FeatureFreeze, I started sending weekly announcements of status of the REVU packages to the ML.
<persia> ffm: Yes.  They ought all be fixed, or your reviewers will tell you to fix them.
<ffm> "E: thinkcspy2_2.0.0alpha1-1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file intrepid"
<ffm> What should it be set to, persia ?
<Hobbsee> ffm: okay, ignore that one.
<persia> ffm: For an upload to Ubuntu, you want to start with -0ubuntu1
<ffm> do I have to increment the change log each time I upload to revu?
<persia> No
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> wgrant: argh. where's my root access gone on revu?
<ffm> persia, Would that be something I want to fix now, or later when its uploaded to ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> ffm: now.  save your reviewers typing.
<ffm> Hobbsee, persia , what about the fullname error? Ignore?
* ffm changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: ï»¿https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | 8.04 is released: Let's fix any SRU-worthy bugs before the users try the package. | Intrepid open, go wild! | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/
<persia> Why go wild!?
<persia> ffm: You'll get complaints about that.  Ignore for now, but be prepared.
<ffm> persia, match ubuntu-devel's topic.
<ffm> persia, is this considered a NMU?
<ffm> !nmu
<ubottu> Factoid nmu not found
 * tbielawa forgot he has a Sun running Debian on the other side of his router
<persia> ffm: It's an NMU because your version targets Debian.  After you fix a couple issues, build the source locally, and run `lintian -iIv foo_source.changes` to see the updated reports.  When it's clean, build a binary, and run lintian against the binary.  When that's clean, upload to REVU again.
<jdong> hmm the new CFS seems to indeed help with interactivity
<jdong> very noticeably
 * Hobbsee starts merging
<ffm> wgrant, you need to reapprove my updated package version?
<Hobbsee> hmmm
<Hobbsee> now, we don't need to keep compatibility this release, do we?
<Hobbsee> because the LTS transition is done
<persia> Hobbsee: We need to support upgrades from Hardy.
<Hobbsee>     - In dput.cf, set ubuntu as default_host_main and change the name of the
<Hobbsee>       ubuntu-revu stanza to revu for compatibility with previous Ubuntu
<Hobbsee>       versions of dput
<Hobbsee> persia: i would have thought the latter could be dropped by now?
<Hobbsee> well, yeah, obviously
<persia> Hobbsee: No, that's the sort of thing we carry forever, unless you want to retrain all the packagers to dput ubuntu-revu rather than dput revu and update all the docs everywhere.
<Hobbsee> mmmm...seems silly, but OK
<persia> I think there was a plan at some point to have REVU be used for multiple distributions, but it was introduced at an awkward time, and didn't really get very far, despite interst on both sides.
<Hobbsee> right
<Hobbsee> may as well bug debian to change hte patch, then.
<persia> Hobbsee: Read the old bugs first: my (vague) memory is that there was a fair amount of discussion involved in the selection of "ubuntu-revu".
<persia> Note that we're patching dput.cf anyway, so dropping one line from the diff isn't a huge savings in merge-effort.
<persia> Also, if you don't use "revu", you might need to adjust the exception handler in dcut that effectively disables it for Ubuntu uploads.
<Hobbsee> true
 * Hobbsee throws it at a ppa
<Hobbsee> hmm, not many merges for main this time.  good
 * persia blames the incipient lenny freeze
 * Hobbsee merges another one
<Hobbsee> although i guess should do the universe ones first - at least, the ones i care about
<persia> Well, maybe, but universe can depend on main, and main can't depend on universe.
<Hobbsee> as in, so people don't steal them
<persia> Hobbsee: Well, maybe, but are there really that many you don't trust anyone else to do?
 * persia only has one merge which others oughtn't try, as it's a hopeless mess that requires background knowledge: freaktweak
 * Hobbsee deals with atool.
<Hobbsee> persia: yes, many, looking at this.
<Hobbsee> persia: (merging into the debian-qt-kde stuff)
 * jdong takes a peek at his universe pets
<jdong> multiverse*
<Hobbsee> yeesh.  ppa stuff is getting accepted a lot slower now.
<Hobbsee> well, published
<Hobbsee> no more auto-building-when-arriving now :(
<Hobbsee> oh, i like that there's a # for "waiting" for each queue
<Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds is very nice
<jdong> muahaha, x264 crack :)
<nixternal> Hobbsee: that is nice
<Hobbsee> nixternal: i thikn that's the neatest, cleanest, nicest version of that page that we've ever had.
<nixternal> most definitely
<Syntux> Good morning
<jdong> ugh I don't feel like I'm doing very reliable multimedia merges at 1:30AM :D
<jdong> but at least there's 5 months and 29 days to yell at me for it :)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> I have been doing backports all day long in between power outtages
 * Hobbsee ohpes not to break things.
<LaserJock> nixternal!
<LaserJock> nixternal: you're alive!
<nixternal> barely :)
<Hobbsee> hmm.  it appears not
 * Hobbsee will watch to see if it falls over
<nixternal> I missed a killer event downtown this evening, so I am sitting in my office, enjoying a nice Chicago Ale working on KDE 4.0.4 backports for Hardy
 * jdong wonders why the heck mp32ogg landed in universe
<LaserJock> nixternal: I managed to pass off as you ok I think ;-)
<Hobbsee> bwah?
<jdong> its name strongly suggests functionality dependency on mp3 decoding...
<nixternal> jdong: because nobody is maintaining it, and manchicken reviewed the code and it is perl garbage
<nixternal> LaserJock: oh ya, how did that go? anybody show up?
<jdong> more importantly, why is mpg123 in universe?
<jdong> that's a mp3 decoder.
<Hobbsee> jdong: i wonder if i can override it though...
<LaserJock> nixternal: it was slow but there were questions and a few people
<jdong> what's our policy on patent-encumbered formats?
<jdong> I thought that would be multiverse
<LaserJock> nixternal: I managed to go a full hour
<nixternal> wow
<nixternal> I was only expecting 30 minutes max...every other doc talk was always slow
<persia> jdong: Doesn't patent encumbrance only apply to encoding?  What about rhythmbox?
<LaserJock> it was, but then I just started rambling until somebody asked a question :-0
<LaserJock> I think they were just asking them to shut me up for a while
<jdong> persia: I thought we didn't decode mp3 by default, u-r-e installs such codecs from multiverse
<nixternal> hehe
 * Hobbsee bwah more....
<Hobbsee> what on *earth* is going on here?
<persia> jdong: Ah, right.  gstreamer.
 * jdong wonders also why gst-fluendo-mp3 is in universe.
<jdong> from debian/copyright:
<jdong> Fluendo has got the relevant licenses to cover its own activities with the
<jdong> Source Code but it is not authorized to sublicense nor to grant the rights
<jdong> which it has acquired over the patents.
<Hobbsee> oh.  found it.
<jdong> In any case, this software license does not allow you
<jdong> to redistribute or copy complete, ready to use mp3 software decoder binaries
 * Hobbsee files a soyuz bug
<jdong> made from the Source Code
<jdong> ^^ doesn't that sound ridiculously non-free?
<jdong> namely, what are we doing in Ubuntu with the package?
<jdong> and we sure aren't Fluendo :)
<LaserJock> geeze, just go ahead and kill the party ;-)
<LaserJock> jdong: maybe you should do a "codec audit"
<jdong> heh :)
<jdong> I'm not sure about what our policy is supposed to be
<jdong> and I don't really have the legal know-how to make an informed decision
<jdong> but from what RedHat/Novell are doing, it's fairly certain at least in North America that even decoding of mp3/mpeg4 is encumbered
<persia> jdong: Just file demotion requests for all of those, and subscribe ubuntu-archive :)
<Hobbsee> jdong: which packages?
<Hobbsee> argh!  someone took the freeze off!
<jdong> mainly gst-fluendo-mp3...
<jdong> Hobbsee: I haven't looked too deep into others, but cursory examination of its debian/copyright simply screams patent encumberance
<Hobbsee> jdong: i can't do anything about it.  LP has not impleemnted it yet, methinks
 * Hobbsee can only do new or unapproved packages.  or something
<jdong> yeah perhaps I should catch an awake archive admin tomorrow to chat about it
<jdong> I'm not sure what our rules are about patent encumbered stuff but we are very inconsistent about it
 * jdong glares at vlc in universe which has a xvid and x264 encoder enabled....
<Hobbsee> i         thought we'd be able to do them all now.  sigh.
<tbielawa> some packages I find have a number and then a colon before the upstream release number, what does this indicate?
<wgrant> Hobbsee: It's on a new more restricted server
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Want me to backport lintian?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: that woudl be good
<wgrant> tbielawa: That's an epoch. It's normally used when upstream has changed their versioning scheme.
<tbielawa> evil evil upstreams
<wgrant> Hobbsee: REVU appears to be working otherwise? No more upload going missing?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: dunno - i don't use it
<RAOF>  
<wgrant> Hobbsee: We don't seem to have a new lintian yet.
<Hobbsee> oh
<Hobbsee> i thought we did
<wgrant> You could give us one.
<Hobbsee> i could
<wgrant> I merged it last time, IIRC.
<Hobbsee> i have already done some merges today
<wgrant> But can't do it right now.
 * Hobbsee uploads dput, and will see fi it works.
<Hobbsee> it should wokr
<Hobbsee> i just can't seem to test it
<wgrant> Note to self: check that uscan works with FTP before running it over thousands of packages.
<Hobbsee> haha
<persia> thousands?  Is it that many now between Ubuntu-local and QA-maintained?
<wgrant> persia: No, but I failed to successfully merge my package limiting changes, it seems.
<persia> Ah.  While I suspect the result would be an interesting list, I'm not sure we're up for it.
<wgrant> No.
<iulian> G'morning
<tbielawa> alo
<eike> morning revu-admins, a package i uploaded to revu can be removed since the version currently in debian sid should work just fine in ubuntu
<wgrant> eike: Which package?
<eike> the package name is pondus, it is not yet in ubuntu, but should be after the next snyc with debian
<wgrant> eike: I'll archive it. Thanks.
<eike> wgrant: thanks!
 * Syntux whisper -> Canonical shop is so expensive 
<proppy> oy
<emgent> morning
<tbielawa_sleeps> mornin'
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hoi
<Kopfgeldjaeger> could someone have a look at bug #147058 and my (very little) debdiff?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 147058 in lynx "Substandard .desktop file (patch attached)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147058
<geser> looks good
<Kopfgeldjaeger> nice :)
<sebner> geser: In fact I really wanted to ask you about this .po thing. but understood it now. Will reopen is as a sync
<laga> can i get some motu-sru love for bug #221921 and for bug #220087 please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221921 in mythbuntu-control-centre "SRU: progress bar oddities break creation of diskless clients" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221921
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 220087 in mythplugins "Some mythplugins packages fail to configure if /var/lib/mythtv NFS mounted" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220087
<sebner> persia: I thought you won't comment on my application!?
<persia> sebner: I didn't.  I was the second councilor to vote.
<sebner> persia: ahh, nice ^^
<highvoltage> soren: hey there. how often are there MC meetings?
<bobbo> could someone have a look at bug 226088 please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226088 in dx "Please sync dx 1:4.4.4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226088
<persia> highvoltage: Weekly.
<sebner> persia: and every member has to vote?
<persia> sebner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council
<Q-FUNK> hi! is there any way to make requestsync use the local sendmail?
<persia> Q-FUNK: It doesn't do that by default?  Are you using the -lp option?
<Q-FUNK> persia: it seems to try to connect to some ubuntu mail host by default
<geser> export DEBSMTP=localhost
<persia> Q-FUNK: Set DEBSMTP
<Q-FUNK> tried that
<Q-FUNK> fails
<geser> does your sendmail listen on port 25?
<persia> mailserver = os.getenv('DEBSMTP') really ought to grab it.  Did you export it?  What error message?
<Q-FUNK> connection refused.
<Q-FUNK> yet e.g. 'mail' command works
<persia> Q-FUNK: mail calls /usr/lib/sendmail.  requestsync connects to port 25 over TCP.  Maybe you need a different local mailserver?
<Q-FUNK> I use nullmailer.
<Q-FUNK> works with everything except requestsync, so far
<persia> Q-FUNK: Does netstat -ntl | grep 25 report a listening socket?  Looking at the (brief) docs for nullmailer, I think it wont.
<Q-FUNK> indeed not
<persia> Right.  You've three choices.  1) Use the LP interface.  2) Use a mail-transport-agent that actually does SMTP, rather than just providing /usr/lib/sendmail.  3) Add an option to requestsync to call /usr/lib/sendmail to send the mail.
<Q-FUNK> fair enough.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> geser: will you also sponsor it?
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: It may be worth checking that you have the right sponsoring team subscribed.  rmadison can be helpful.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> persia: well, u-u-s is subscribed as lynx is in universe
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: See, that's not what rmadison tells me.
<Syntux> A packaging-related myst question; for example if someone wants to install Basket and wants to avoid installing all of the recommended packages http://paste.syntux.net/bin/33 and stick to the dependencies packages http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/basket  what would s/he do
<persia> Syntux: Depends entirely on the front-end in use.  Most ought have an option somewhere.
<Syntux> another question is why such package is packed with all of these recommendations and why apt-get almost forcing me to install the recommended packages?
<persia> Syntux: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-binarydeps and because "The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations. "
<Syntux> I'm trying to get the developer/packager mental state when s/he packaged it, why s/he did that
<Kopfgeldjaeger> persia: do you have a link about rmadison?
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: `sudo aptitude install devscripts; man rmadison`
<Kopfgeldjaeger> persia: ah, i see. apt-cache show lynx shows it's in main. but the maintainer is Ubuntu MOTU Developers... hmpf
<MSohail> Hi all
<Kopfgeldjaeger> persia: already in the manpage ;)
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: In that case, that's a mistake by someone, and yet another issue you could fix in the package :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> jop. sure, will do
<MSohail> I am trying to build kopete with jingle support. I am not able to figure out how to alter debian/rules for this purpose. Any advice anyone?
<wgrant> persia: UEHS is revived.
<persia> Woo Hoo!
<persia> OK.  Anyone who likes investigating new upstream packages, please take a look at http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_updated.html : there are 66 packages either maintained directly by us, or by Debian QA (who very rarely grab a new upstream) that need merging.
<persia> Anyone looking for little stuff might want to try adding watch files to anything listed at http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.html : almost 800 to choose from, and some with examples available.
<LucidFox> jdong, are you around?
<persia> Special bonus points for people who add debian/copyright to the 39 packages for which it appears to be missing.
<geser> how got 39 packages without a debian/copyright got included in the archive?
<LucidFox> per geser
<persia> geser: People were having bad days?
<persia> It's definitely RC, and deserves SRU all the way back to Dapper (be nice to push back to Warty, if we could).  Debian would likely appreciate the patch if they carry the package.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> is there a list of packages without debian/copyright?
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: It can be extracted from ï»¿ http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.html
<jpatrick> if they do not have a copyright, they would never get pasted the NEW queue
<persia> Some might generate a debian/copyright, but I think that's not encouraged.
<persia> jpatrick: Well, they are in the archive, so...
<Kopfgeldjaeger> aaah, now i see
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: If you're up for fixing them, it'd be a great improvement to our licensing situation.  Even better if you can add an upstream pointer, and a watch file :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> if that's everything :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> geser: there's a new debdiff in bug #147058 that also corrects the maintainer field as lynx is in main, not universe
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 147058 in lynx "Substandard .desktop file (patch attached)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147058
<persia> Well, some of those packages surely have bugs as well, and if you can fix them, that's even better.  For packages on the UEHS list, it's generally best to improve the packages as much as possible whenever you touch them, as they don't tend to have dedicated maintainers.
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: I'll subscribe the right group for that then.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> thanks
<Kopfgeldjaeger> OK, I'm definitely too stupid. I looked in some packages with "N/A" in the list, but those on which I looked all have a copyright file... for example "dist-elements". it has a debian/copyright file (see: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/d/dict-elements/dict-elements_20001107-a-4.diff.gz )...
<Kopfgeldjaeger> s/dist-elements/dict-elements/
<persia> LucidFox: To reach a human, you'll do better with #debian-games@OFTC or debian-devel-games@lists.d.o
<LucidFox> Oh.
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: Interesting.  For some reason UEHS couldn't find it.
<persia> Anyway, I think you're repeating bug #468810, and http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-games-devel/2008-March/006973.html
<gnomefreak> anyone on a 64bit system with flash can you run locate libflashsupport  (someones whos flash is working)
<crimsun> "working" or "stable"?
<persia> gnomefreak: By "with flash" do you mean Adobe's code?
<gnomefreak> persia: yeah flashplugin-nonfree
<gnomefreak> crimsun: working as it flah is viewable
<crimsun> gnomefreak: I'm not sure what you're attempting: it's supposed to be installed into /usr/lib/libflashsupport.so
<gnomefreak> crimsun: 64bit needs it? and its installed in /usr/lib32/libflashsupprt.so
<gnomefreak> is it needed in 64bit?
<crimsun> gnomefreak: for nspluginwrapper?  That should be correct.
<gnomefreak> crimsun: ok that what i was thinking as well
<gnomefreak> thanks for comfirming it :) i had him/her mv swf lets see if it works
<ffm> Hey, anyone care to review my REVU package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=thinkcspy2
<Kopfgeldjaeger> for i in *.desktop; do desktop-file-validate $i; done | wc -l shows 354...
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: There used to be some scripts that did even more, but in general, carrying a patch to add a semicolon isn't so interesting.  Carrying a patch to add something to the menu and the Add/Remove programs wizard that would otherwise be missing is interesting.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> but it surely wouldn't be bad if all desktop files would be valid :)
<ScottK> No, but it may not be worth the additional maintenance overhead of maintaining a diff from Debian to deal with small problems.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> does the Add/Remove wizard use the *.desktop files?
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: Yes.  If the package doesn't have a .desktop file, and there's not a special exception in the app-install-data package, it doesn't get shown.  For universe, that basically means adding a .desktop file is required to have it show as an install option.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> and if a package is in package x-cool-app, it is automatically included in the wizard?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> *if a desktop file is in...
<persia> x-cool-app?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> example application.
<persia> Ah, well, semi-automatically.  There's a tool that gets run to import them all once in a while.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok
<Kopfgeldjaeger> is there a list for packages without desktop files?
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: There used to be a couple scripts that generated lsits, but the site is down right now.
<persia> Also, it takes a little review, as many packages don't actually have a GUI, and so oughtn't have a .desktop file, and other packages are not designed for regular launch, but prefer to have an argument, and so ought be MIME handlers, etc., rather than having .desktop files.  On top of that, window managers are extra special.
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: I found a backup of old content on the wiki.  I know the auto-conversion script doesn't handle the new menu format, by the candidate discovery script my be useful: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles?action=recall&rev=58
<wgrant> persia: On orko, I presume? I can grab a copy.
<persia> wgrant: Indeed, although I never did port the autoconversion script to the new menu format.  StevenK's discovery script might have had an update.  It'd be in my home directory, but I don't have anywhere else good to host it now anyway.
 * persia remembers the old way of tracking things: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles?action=recall&rev=54  Despite any issues, surely Launchpad is better than that :)
<rexbron> How often does the motu-sru team look at bugs?
<persia> rexbron: anecdotally, almost daily, but there's a backlog, and tools to manage the backlog are in the very early stages of development.
<rexbron> persia: cool, just curiouse as I just posted a patch and subscribed the motu-sru team
<wgrant> REVU should have a sane lintian now!
<persia> \o/
<ffm> wgrant, define sane
<MSohail> can anyone advice how i can alter debian/rules of kopete to include jingle support? i am working on hardy
<wgrant> ffm: It recognises intrepid.
<ffm> wgrant, wooh.
<ffm> wgrant, do I need to reupload?
<wgrant> ffm: No point - people know to ignore that message.
<ffm> wgrant, woo! I'm lintian clean then.
<persia> Well, it shouldn't be ignored: it often exists due to some other issue in the package, but in this case it's safe.
<ffm> wgrant, bug http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/thinkcspy2-0805030620/thinkcspy2_2.0.0alpha1-0ubuntu1_source.changes gives me an error.
<persia> ffm: Have you runb against your binaries as well?
<ffm> persia, not yet.
 * persia expects lots more changes
<wgrant> ffm: That's normal. .changes files are very dangerous.
<ffm> wgrant, what makes them so?
<wgrant> ffm: They have a signature.
<wgrant> Which can be used to do bad, bad things like upload to other places.
<ffm> wgrant, ah.
<ffm> persia, any idea how to fix http://paste.ubuntu.com/9747/ ? I'm not installing any actual exec binaries.
<persia> ffm: Either don't use dh_make, or delete everything you don't need.  hand edit your copyright file to be nice.  Use dh_compress.  lintian -iIv would have told you most of that.
<wgrant> I think the first part is the most important.
 * persia again considers trying to update dh_make, but not with much spirit
<ffm> wgrant, Use what instead?
<ffm> persia, where should I put the "dh_compress changelog.debian" stanza? in build:, or install:
<persia> ffm: You'll do better asking questions generally, as I'm likely to run out of answers at some point.  http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianrules is the likely source of your information.  You want to compress just before you create the .deb file.
<persia> (and be sure to have all those targets: dh_make doesn't include some by default)
<highvoltage> I just want to make sure I understand https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers right
<highvoltage> universe-contributors are half-way-motu's, right?
<stdin> universe-contributes is anyone who has contributed anything to universe
<stdin> (and it was renamed to revu-uploaders a little while ago)
<highvoltage> stdin: thanks, that kind of answered my next question too :)
<stdin> I actually only realised it the other day ;)
<sebner> stdin: anything = substantial ;)
<stdin> well, now it just meant "anyone who can upload to revu"
<sebner> stdin: no there is a new universe contributors group ;)
<sebner> stdin: https://edge.launchpad.net/~universe-contributors
<stdin> sebner: yeah, but I meant the old one
<sebner> stdin: ok though that was not his question :)
<stdin> it a weekend, I'm aloud to be a bit off :p
<sebner> ^^
<highvoltage> heh
<bobbo> Debdiff up for Bug #226120 if anyone has some time to sponsor it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226120 in fujiplay "Fujiplay packaging needs cleanup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226120
<sucitrams> hi
<highvoltage> hey sucitrams
<Arby> afternoon all
<Arby> I gather this is the place to be if I want to learn packaging :)
<jpatrick> Arby: sure is
<Arby> If I want to work on a merge I gather I'm supposed to contact the previous uploader first, is that correct?
<Arby> prevent duplication etc
<sucitrams> I'm new to packaging and have some questions: I updated the hibernate package from 1.97-1 to 1.99, and all worked fine.
<sucitrams> But now I saw here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hibernate/1.98.1-1 that 1.98.1-1 is the newest Ubuntu version. It was released just 13 hours ago, and so it isn't in the repos. But shouldn't I update from 1.98.1-1 to 1.99? Sorry for my bad englisch :)
<Arby> in which case, Tonio_ any objections to me attempting to merge konversation?
<jpatrick> Arby: I suggest doing the merges, upload them somewhere and point them to JR
<Arby> jpatrick: ok, by JR I assume you mean Jriddell?
<jpatrick> Arby: yeppers
<Arby> jpatrick: so first up I need to file a merge bug?
<Arby> and how do find which component of debian the package comes from
<jpatrick> Arby: http://packages.qa.debian.org/k/konversation.html
<Arby> thanks
<jpatrick> Arby: grab the debian source, merge Ubuntu changes as necessary and upload the new source package somewher and I'm sure JR (or some other core-dev) will upload
<Arby> jpatrick: I'm trying to but it's going to be a lot of small steps
<Arby> is the debian source what I get by running grab-merge.sh
<Arby> I have a lot of wiki pages open and I'm just findin my way around
<Arby> the new version is listed in debian unstable and testing, which should I refer to in the merge bug
<Arby> ah, nvm.
<jpatrick> Arby: the current in Ubunut is 1.0.1-4ubuntu6
<Arby> found it in the changelog
<Arby> jpatrick: yes, and there is a 1.0.1-6 available
<jpatrick> Arby: you'll have to check what Debian included in -5, and -6, and bring those changes to Ubuntu if necessary
<Arby> in progress
<Arby> there's at least one patch that has been applied upstream
<jpatrick> Arby: http://packages.qa.debian.org/k/konversation/news/20080121T134704Z.html
<jpatrick> Arby: appears the Debian folk included our patches in -5, now you'll just have to check out -6
<Arby> jpatrick: that was my understanding, I think I'm heading in the right direction
<Arby> just need some time to work all this out
<jpatrick> any problems/questions, just ask
<Arby> in 'Please merge <sourcepackagename><debian-version> (repository) from Debian <repository> (<component>)' what should repository and component be for Debian?
<Arby> Unstable and ? what
<sebner> Arby: Unstable is enough ;)
<Arby> ok
<sucitrams> What I mean is, when someone fixed a bug in let's say version 1.0 in xy and I grab version 1.1 from the authors website of the program, the bug isn't fixed if the ubuntu-developer didn't inform the program author, right? So if I just get version 1.1 and package it, the bug still exists. How can i avoid this?
 * persia likes to use "Debian unstable (main)" or "Debian unstable (contrib)", as needed.
<sebner> persia: Then I might be too sloppy
<persia> sucitrams: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate
 * Arby bookmarks
<Arby> next question, I have patch.diff.DEBIAN and patch.diff.UBUNTU that are identical except for an extra indent on one line. Do I just delete the .UBUNTU file from debian/patches?
<sucitrams> persia: thx, I'll read this
<persia> ScottK: Recent traffic has caused me to agree with you completely about appropriate content for ubuntu-motu@ and the need for ubuntu-motu-mentors@
<Arby> anybody able to help with my patch conflict above?
<Arby> I think this is the last change I need to make
<sebner> Arby: I suppose you can delete the ubuntu one
<Arby> thanks, that's what I needed to know
<persia> Arby: Depends on the language.  Some languages are whitespace sensitive, and so the extra indent might fix a bug.
<sebner> Arby: persia is right, for example python is whitespace sensitive, for C it doesn't matter
<Arby> as best I can tell this is C
<sebner> Arby: then it doesn't matter
<Arby> the line in question is
<Arby> if ! test -f $kdepotpath; then
<Arby> +# kdepotpath=`kde-config --expandvars --prefix`/include/kde.pot
<sebner> looks like bash!?
<persia> That would be shell, rather than C, but it could be make pretending to be shell.
<persia> which file is being patched in the patch?
<Arby> sorry, I'm new at this I'm not actually sure, hold on I'll pastebin it it's quite small
<persia> Arby: It's never a problem not to know, it's only a problem not to ask when you don't know :)
<Arby> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<Arby> debian version http://paste.ubuntu.com/9776/    ubuntu version http://paste.ubuntu.com/9777/
<Arby> line 22 is the difference
<persia> Arby: In the patch file, the lines at the top, starting --- and +++ indicate what is being patched, and show the relative date.
<persia> In this case, you're patching cvs,sh, which ought be a shell script
<persia> Take a look at the first line of kde/admin/cvs.sh to see what flavour of shell (sh, csh, bash, zsh, etc.)
<Arby> looking for it
<persia> From a quick glance, I suspect it doesn't matter.  I think the Ubuntu version is more readable, but it's not worth maintaining as a diff unless it breaks something.
<jdong> LucidFox: sup?
<LucidFox> I saw ffmpeg-free uploaded to NEW - am I to assume that Ubuntu is finally going to provide alternative ffmpegs?
<Arby> persia: thanks I'll remove the ubuntu one then
<Arby> then once I've done the changes I just run debuild -S or is there more to it?
<jdong> LucidFox: unfortuantely no
<jdong> LucidFox: ffmpeg-free is the replacement pkg for ffmpeg, debian renamed.
<LucidFox> so ffmpeg is going to be removed?
<jdong> LucidFox: likewise; ffmpeg-free generates the same binary package names as ffmpeg does
<LucidFox> ah
<jdong> LucidFox: I was combing through debian-multimedia last night; uploaded a new x264; wondering if we want the new xvidcore?
<jdong> ours seems very out of date
<LucidFox> oh, I was just about to ask if you were going to update x264 - didn't see it
<LucidFox> as for xvidcore, sure
<Arby> can anyone tell me what these debuild errors mean http://paste.ubuntu.com/9779/
<Arby> do I need something extra installed
<Arby> or set up
<sebner> Arby: install cdbs
<Arby> thanks
<Tonio_> Arby: please go for konversation, no problem
<Arby> I seem to also be missing patchsys-quilt.mk
<Tonio_> Arby: and ping me for upload the package once possible
<sebner> Arby: install quilt
<Arby> Tonio_: well on the way (hopefully)
<sebner> Arby: and patch
<Arby> sebner: thanks
<Arby> hmm, that seems all good
<sebner> Arby: fine :)
<Arby> I'll make debdiffs and upload after dinner
<highvoltage> does the latest debootstrap know about intrepid already?
<sebner> highvoltage: yes
<devfil> highvoltage: no
<sebner> ehm. ^^
<devfil> sebner: yes? I tried yesterday and it don't know about it
<sebner> devfil: I set up my intrepid pbuilder 2 days ago
<highvoltage> sebner: I suppose you installed debootstrap from intrepid then?
<highvoltage> sebner: because it isn't in hardy-backports yet
<sebner> highvoltage: yes but it got backported
<sebner> highvoltage: 6 hours ago ^^
<sebner> highvoltage: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debootstrap
<sebner> highvoltage: but yes I'm on intrepid
<devfil> sebner: thanks for this info, I don't know why yesterday it didn't set up pbuilder for intrepid
<pikini_> hi , I am a passionate programmer liking to contribute to ubuntu
<highvoltage> sebner: ah, my local mirror updates every 6 hours, so I'll probably get it soon. thanks
<pikini_> can anyone help me in explaining about Motu
<sebner> np
<sebner> pikini_: well MOTU isn't all about programming
<pikini_> okay
<sebner> pikini_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/
<pikini_> I want to make some contribution to ubuntu , not specific to coding
<devfil> pikini_: you can translate, create package, reply to answers by users etc.
<sebner> pikini_: see link
<bbyever> hi
<bbyever> hi can i apply a .patch to a source, or turn it into a .dpatch ?
<chillywilly> I thought there was a -17 kernel out that fixed the scheduler issues
<pikini_> wat is a patch..?
<jdong> chillywilly: yes, it's in -proposed
<jdong> chillywilly: so far I'm using it for a day and it does seem to help
<devfil> pikini_: a patch is a file that stores in it all the changes made on a file or files
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> guess I'll finally bite the bullet and upgrae
<chillywilly> upgrade too
<chillywilly> jdong: what about the pulseaudio issues?
<jdong> chillywilly: pulse can still be quirky to some people, apparently there's some efforts to work on fixing that
<chillywilly> sudo apt-get remove pulseaudio? ;)
<jdong> chillywilly: not that simple
<jdong> chillywilly: pulseaudio replaced alsa-utils' sound card initialization
<jdong> chillywilly: talk to crimsun about how to properly disable pulse. One person who tried that got no sound at all :D
<chillywilly> that still makes me leery of upgrading
<chillywilly> ok
<Arby> what does this mean I actually have to do http://paste.ubuntu.com/9789/ ?
<jdong> chillywilly: if you're leery, do wait for 8.04.1 ;-)
<Arby> convert src.tar.gz --> orig.tar.gz then run debuild?
<Arby> sorry paste is from a report file after running grab-merge.sh
<superm1> jdong, i've been away for a bit w/o logging, did you answer me about rippedwire/handbrake-gtk in terms of packaging for inclusion in interprid?
<superm1> *intrepid
<jdong> superm1: no, but that would be nice to have packaged :)
<superm1> jdong, well the gui part is easy enough to package.
<superm1> the problem is that handbrakecli
<jdong> one sec lemme go grab lunch :)
<superm1> that it is dependent on
<jdong> superm1: we can then talk about the cli's build system :D
<superm1> alrighty :)
<bbyever> could someone help me patch apt for this bug #202219 ? i cant} understand how the -p option works
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 202219 in apt "apt-get source package=version fails if binary name != source name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202219
<chillywilly> is this accurate in removeing pulseaudio --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PulseAudio ?
<Arby> Tonio_: debdiff attached to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/konversation/+bug/226180 for checking
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226180 in konversation "Please merge Konversation 1.0.1-6 (main) from Debian Unstable" [Wishlist,In progress]
<Arby> Tonio_: this is my first ever package so expect a few screw ups
<Arby> also, what happens next?
<Arby> I'm following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging and it kind of stops after this point
<sebner> Arby: unassign and set it to "confirmed", subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors
<LaserJock> anybody know if people.ubuntuwire.com is up?
<LaserJock> or near up
<Arby> sebner: thanks, done
<Arby> and now I wait
<sebner> LaserJock: Currently unavailable
<sebner> Arby: good :)
<LaserJock> sebner: I realize that :-)
<sebner> LaserJock: ok :)
<Tonio_> Arby: no pb, everyone has a first package in his history ;)
<Arby> If I try to set up pbuilder with 'pbuilder create --distribution intrepid' I get E: No such script: /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/intrepid
<Arby> what am I doing wrong?
<sebner> Arby: got the newest debootstrap version?
<Arby> nope, where do I find that?
<sucitrams> apt-get install debootstrap i think
<Arby> that doesn't do anything
<Arby> ah https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot?highlight=%28debootstrap%29 looks promising
<sebner> Haven't used that ^^
<sebner> Arby: you should wait until your mirror has the actual version
<sebner> Arby: open hardy-backports
<Arby> ok
<RoAkSoAx> Arby, enable the backports on the sources and install it
<Arby> mirror doesn't seem to have caught up yet
<gnomefreak> someone on intrepid can you please run lsb_release
<sebner> gnomefreak: No LSB modules are available.
<gnomefreak> sebner: yeah thats what i get too i was just wondering if it was me
<gnomefreak> thanks
<gnomefreak> its not borked it should do that append a -a or a -c to lsb_release
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hello sebner
<bbyever> hi
<bbyever> for patching apt for this bug #202219 what would be best, a patchsystem or patching the source directly?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 202219 in apt "apt-get source package=version fails if binary name != source name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202219
<pikini_> how to update a new package that has been released in the main ubuntu repository
<laga> pikini_: fllow the SRU process
<laga> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<pikini_> laga:wat is SRU...?
<laga> pikini_: read the link: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<bbyever> ï»¿for patching apt for this bug #202219 what would be best, a patchsystem or patching the source directly?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 202219 in apt "apt-get source package=version fails if binary name != source name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202219
<norsetto> sebner: flightgear seems a fun merge to do
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, would you help me with a merge ?? :)?
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: sure, which one?
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, im trying to merge blam
 * norsetto checks
<RoAkSoAx> the report shows that changes are needed in debian/control
<RoAkSoAx> here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9821/
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: ok, before that, did you manually check the previous changes, and what is new in the current debian package?
<bbyever> hi... i was wondering if anyone could help me with this... how should i patch apt for this bug #202219, using a patchsystem or directly patching the source?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 202219 in apt "apt-get source package=version fails if binary name != source name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202219
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, well in the changelog says that it is the new upstream version so should it be  a sync instead of a merge?
<RoAkSoAx> (upstream release among other changes of course...)
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: not necessarily, we might still have ubuntu changes that needs to be applied
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, so changes should be done in the build-depends on debian control?
<RoAkSoAx> debian/control*
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: what are the ubuntu changes in debian/control and why were they applied?
<RoAkSoAx> the last ubuntu changes are this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9823/
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: I really mean the changes, not the records in debian/changelog
<RoAkSoAx> i don't know, how can i see that ?
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: you must know, otherwise you can't possibly do the merge. You need to open the file with the 1.8.4-3ubuntu2 patch
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: this file will tell you which are the ubuntu changes applied to the base debian package
<RoAkSoAx> this? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9826/
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: again, thats just the changelog bit, I really want to know what changed in control, not the changelog
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9827/  ???
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: yes, now, what are the changes we made in Ubuntu re. the build-depends?
<RoAkSoAx> change name of some packages and added others int eh build-depends?
<RoAkSoAx> for ex libxul-dev (>= 1.8), to xulrunner-1.9-dev ??
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: can you list to me which packages we added and which we changed, and more importantly, why?
<RoAkSoAx> Debian : libgecko2.0-cil (>= 0.11) Ubuntu: libgecko2.0-cil (>= 0.11-3ubuntu4~asac6)
<RoAkSoAx> Debian: libxul-dev (>= 1.8) Ubuntu: xulrunner-1.9-dev
<RoAkSoAx> why, because packages in ubuntu does not always have the same names in debian?
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: I think there is still an additional one
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: well, this is possible, you can check it using apt-cache or p.u.c or lp
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: no, I'm wrong, is just those you listed
<RoAkSoAx> ok, so i've identified the changes... what next... verify the packages in the repositories and editing debian/control and then build source and generate the debdiffs?
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: thats just one side of the changes, what about debian?
<RoAkSoAx> notify debian of the changes?
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: I mean, what are the changes that debian made to control w.r.t. the base version?
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, debian split build-depends in several lines?
<RoAkSoAx> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9832/
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: yes, they also added some build-depnds, make sure these are ok for ubuntu (they should eventually cause an ftbfs if not)
<RoAkSoAx> so i have to check for the packages added by debian in the ubuntu repos?
<RoAkSoAx> and add them to the debian/control
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: yes, once you do that, you are done, just manually solve the conflict in control as we just did
<bobbo> what is the policy about adding your own changes (Bumping Standards version) to a package you are merging?
<norsetto> bobbo: what do you mean your own changes? changes extra to the previous ubuntu changes?
<bobbo> norsetto: I mean adding changes to an automated DaD merge
<pochu> bobbo: I don't think there's a policy for that, but I'd say the general thinking is 'keep the delta as lower as possible'
<bobbo> pochu: ok, thanks :)
<pochu> so don't bump Standards-Version just for the sake of bumping it :)
<norsetto> bobbo: if the change is important (fix a bug or a serious packaging error) then yes, if it is cosmetic (like bump standards version) don't
<bobbo> pochu: norsetto: thanks :)
<pochu> yw
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: btw, I advice you to talk with asac about this merge, he should provide you with some insight I don't possibly have on the reasons for some of the changes he made and if they still apply
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: don't just assume that dad did all the work, because in most cases it doesn't, it just blindly applies all the previous ubuntu changes without criteria
<sucitrams_> gn8
<Arby> I'm trying to merge koffice and I'm struggling to understand a conflict in debian/control.
<Arby> the diff is here http://paste.ubuntu.com/9839/
<Arby> anyone able to help
<Arby> we seem to depend on (= ${Source-Version}) and upstream depend on (= ${binary:Version})
<Arby> I'm not qualified to say which is correct
<Arby> I also need to figure out if the Replaces/Conflicts on krita is still necessary
<norsetto> arby: ${Source-Version} is deprecated, debian seems to be right
<Arby> norsetto: OK so I should remove all the ubuntu lines? any idea on the krita entry?
<norsetto> arby: my opinion count less than nothing, the package is in main, not universe
<Arby> norsetto: you still know more than I do :) which makes your opinion count to me
<Arby> Riddell: still around?
<norsetto> arby: well, your sponsor might beg to differ ;-)
<Arby> true :)
<Arby> if he's still here we'll find out
<pochu> Arby: I think it isn't probably needed anymore as that package isn't in Hardy, but I may be wrong
<Arby> pochu: which 'it', the krita entry?
<pochu> the kitra package, yes
<pochu> so you don't need the conflicts anymore
<pochu> as Hardy->Intrepid and Hardy->LTS will be ok
<pochu> it was probably needed in Hardy for the Dapper->Hardy upgrades
<pochu> but my KDE knowledge is almost zero so don't listen too much to me :-)
<norsetto> pochu: rmadison seems to be of a different opinion
<pochu> really?
<norsetto>      krita | 1:1.6.3-4ubuntu7 |         hardy | amd64, i386
<norsetto> krita | 1:1.6.3-4ubuntu7 |      intrepid | amd64, i386
<pochu> hmm...
<pochu> emilio@saturno:~$ apt-cache madison kitra
<pochu> emilio@saturno:~$ rmadison kitra
<pochu> emilio@saturno:~$
<pochu> that's strange
<Arby> erm kitra?
<norsetto> pochu: are you in gutsy?
<pochu> nope, Hardy
<pochu> ah
<pochu> krita/kitra
<pochu> :)
<Arby> what is madison?
<norsetto> pochu: :-)
<pochu> still, it's probably not needed as it's << 1:1.4.2-7
<norsetto> arby: rmadison -- Remotely query the Debian archive database about packages
<Arby> norsetto: thanks, useful to know
<norsetto> arby: but does the same for Ubuntu, actually its patched to default to ubuntu in hardy
<RoAkSoAx> ok thanks very much norsetto  :)
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: de nada
<Arby> I'll leave the krita entry for now.
<Arby> if it's wrong I'm sure I'll get told quick enough :)
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, oh, one last question... i should look for the packages in the Intrepid repos right?
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: for what?
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, when looking for the packages needed for the debian/control
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: yes
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, and in the changelog... i should put all the new packages added... or name changed and like that?
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: whatever changes you have carried over from the previous ubuntu package + any other you did yourself
<bobbo> can someone have a look at bug #226287 to make sure i did my first merge right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226287 in ubuntu "Please merge torbutton 1.0.4-3 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226287
<RoAkSoAx> ok cool, gracias =)
<sebner> bobbo: why don't you just subscribe u-u-s and wait?
<norsetto> bobbo: just subscribe u-u-s, nobody will jump to your throat :-)
<sebner> norsetto: hihi
<norsetto> bobbo: well, sebner might (never steal a merge from him....)
<norsetto> sebner: hi, oh master of the merges
<sebner> norsetto: hehe, Yes never steal one of my merges but I only start jumping to once throat if my merges are ignored for 2 weeks -.-
<sebner> norsetto: huhu :)
<sebner> No, at least I start annoying my sponsors ^^
<norsetto> bobbo: it is actually better to list all the remaining changes
<sebner> norsetto: you didn't comment at my application and now it doesn't matter any longer but I'm awaiting for comment for my MOTU application ;)
<norsetto> sebner: what do you mean?
 * bobbo goes away to rewrite the changelog
<sebner> norsetto: my universe-contributors application. you were to lazy
<norsetto> sebner: ahh, I see, well, talk with whoever moderate that list, he obviously didn't like my email
<sebner> norsetto: nice joke ^^. no as I said it's not needed any longer so don't worry
<norsetto> sebner: I wish they would take this moderation more seriously, some email to ubuntu-devel really do not pertian there
<sebner> heya jono our great community manager
<jono> hi sebner, thats very kind of you :)
<jono> how are you?
<sebner> jono: fine. just making fun with norsetto :P  and you?
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, if for example, a package in the debian Build-depends has gtk-sharp2 (>= 2.8.0) and the version of the package in the ubuntu repos is 2.12.0, should i change it to... or leave it like the debian Build-Depends
<sebner> norsetto: for my MOTU application I'll post the irclog so you can't blame the moderation any longer :P
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: in principle leave it as is, otherwise it may hurt backports for no reasons
<norsetto> sebner: to tell you the truth this really irks me, I think I will unsubscribe to all ubuntu ml
<Riddell> hi Arby
<sebner> RoAkSoAx: don't introduce anything if it's not really necessary
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, and for example, this one in debian is: libmono-dev (>= 1.1.17) and in ubuntu 1.2.6+dfsg-6ubuntu3 ??
<sebner> norsetto: don't like them?
<norsetto> sebner: quite useless frankly
<Arby> Riddell: trying to fix a conflict in debian control for koffice
<Arby> Riddell: could you look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/9839/
<Arby> and advise what is the correct resolution
<sebner> norsetto: I know you will make an exception for me :P
<Riddell> Arby: use the debian version
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: what do you mean, that we changed to that version or that that version is the ubuntu current one?
<Riddell> Arby: maybe look in the changelog and see if there's a reason for that conflict, but I'm pretty sure it'll be obsolete
<Arby> Riddell: I couldn't find a reason
<Riddell> Arby: actually keep that conflict in, it looks recent
<Arby> let me double check
<Riddell> take the debian version otherwise
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, in the debian Build-depends shows libmono-dev (>= 1.1.17), but when i browse for that package in the Intrepid repos it showed that the version is: 1.2.6+dfsg-6ubuntu3. So should i change or leave it like the debian build-dep
<Arby> Riddell: what about the krita in replaces
<Arby> should that stay too?
<norsetto> [00:15] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: in principle leave it as is, otherwise it may hurt backports for no reasons
<Riddell> Arby: yes
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, oh ok, because in the patch of the older Ubuntu version, the differences where Debian : libgecko2.0-cil (>= 0.11) Ubuntu: libgecko2.0-cil (>= 0.11-3ubuntu4~asac6) so i thought i had to change it
<Arby> Riddell: thanks, I'll make a debdiff shortly and attach it to the bug report. is it OK to ping you to check it?
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: it is possible that for that asac has a rationale
<sebner> gn8 folks :D
<sebner> jono: may jokosher rocking :D
<crimsun> RoAkSoAx: the rationale is listed in the changelog for gecko-sharp2 0.11-3ubuntu4.
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: most probably it is needed to be sure that a certain feature is available, or to avoid a ftbfs, but I don't know for sure
<Arby> Riddell: does  http://paste.ubuntu.com/9853/ look correct to you?
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, ok, and i should keep the changes made in the last ubuntu version regarding to: Debian : libgecko2.0-cil (>= 0.11) Ubuntu: libgecko2.0-cil (>= 0.11-3ubuntu4~asac6) and Debian: libxul-dev (>= 1.8) Ubuntu: xulrunner-1.9-dev
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: I think so
<bobbo> norsetto: Does http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9854/ look better?
<norsetto> bobbo: a bit more verbosity could make it even better :-)
<bobbo> norsetto: cool thanks
<Arby> I assume a 15M debdiff would be considered 'too big'
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, and here, i noticed this "mono-mcs (>= 1.1.17) | c-sharp-compiler" in the last ubuntu version, but in the intrepid repos there is no c-sharp-compiler pacakge... so should i leave it or remove it?
<Arby> now why would it be that big,
 * Arby ponders
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: leave it, it will never get to that since mono-mcs is in the repo
<Riddell> Arby: that paste doesn't look incorrecet
<Arby> Riddell: thanks debdiff on it's way
<Riddell> Arby: I expect most of that debdiff will be changes to Makefile.ins etc?
<norsetto> Riddell: 15 M of makefiles? Thats kubuntu for you :-)
<Arby> Riddell: over to you there I'm afraid the contents of debdiff are gibberish to me
<norsetto> Riddel: btw, do you know of any way to avoid that kde autofiles drag in all the cruft they do?
<Riddell> norsetto: that'll be phased out now with kde 4
<norsetto> Riddell: ok, but for kde 3 there is no hope?
<Zelut> could someone help me figure out what depend I'm missing, resulting in this error:
<Zelut> Checking for X libraries:  Xlibs not found at -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib64 -L/usr/local/lib -lXext -lX11 -I/usr/local/include or Xlibs headers not found
<Riddell> norsetto: not really
<norsetto> Riddell: zut, ok, thanks
<crimsun> Zelut: presuming it uses autotools, pastebin config*.log
<crimsun> Zelut: it's likely missing something besides libx11-dev
<Arby> Riddell: debdiff added https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/koffice/+bug/226281
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226281 in koffice "Please merge koffice 1:1.6.3-5 (main) from Debian Unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<Arby> to be torn apart at your leisure
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, ok, so i check the debian/control generated by the script, and shows this packages: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9857/ . But in the debian version they include these other packages(besides the ones of the ones in the pastebin): "intltool, libmono-cairo2.0-cil, libgnomeui-dev (>= 2.2) " . These other packages should be included in debian/control right?
<Zelut> crimsun: yeah, I have libx11-dev there and I can't seem to track down the other one(s)
<Arby> and with that I'm off to sleep
<Riddell> thanks Arby
<Zelut> crimsun: the configure.log is not found (trying this from within pbuilder)
<Arby> Riddell: all feedback welcome
<crimsun> Zelut: please use the shell hook.
<crimsun> Zelut: i.e., /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/C10shell
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: if it is so then you really have to take the debian one, and make yourself by hand the two necessary changes
<crimsun> hmm, in the name of streamlining bug triaging, we should tighten the sysv-rc versioned dependency [for multiuser semantics, see the TearDown spec]
<crimsun> it is insufficient to simply include sysv-rc (>= 2.86.ds1-14.1ubuntu2)
<crimsun> for whatever reason, some people grab some Debian version of sysv-rc, e.g., 2.86.ds1-54, which will still fail using multiuser
<norsetto> Zelut: another possibility is to look what header or pkg-config files configure is searching for, and making sure that the relevant binary package (apt-file is handy for this) is listed as a Build-Depends
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, ok so, my debian/control looks like this now... http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9860/
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: looks good to me
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, what about my changelog: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9863/
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: you should not list the debian changes, only the ubuntu specific changes
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, oh i thought i should put the changes made from the last Ubuntu version... so what should i put there?
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: as i said, all the ubuntu changes, so, all the previous ubuntu changes being carried over + any new one (if needed)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-04
<LaserJock> anybody know who wrote the debcheck script for qa.ubuntuwire.com?
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, so i just copy the last changes showed in the hardy records (the last one) and paste it in the intrepid records... and since i've mande any patch or anything else... that would be it?
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: not just the last, ALL ubuntu changes (there might be previous ones)
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, including the records of the previous merge? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9865/
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: if its a change you are carrying over, yes
<norsetto> gotta go now, g'night all
<alteregoa> he-man
<alteregoa> MUD? multi user dungeon?
<jdong> err... wrong channel :)
<jdong> this isn't a MUD :)
<jdong> or maybe it is
<alteregoa> fnord...
<jdong> You have walked into a room full of nerdy coders. Press (a) to merge packages from debian. Press (b) to exit
<alteregoa> press alt-f4 to continue
<jdong> that key combination would free so many of us from our Ubuntu addiction.
<pochu> what about syncs? :)
<jdong> pochu: syncs are like merging without a payload....
 * jdong reads that back for innuendos...
<pochu> heh, I never thought about syncs that way
<crimsun> alt+f4 seems only to display workrave
<crimsun> oh well, workrave time :-)
<alteregoa> yeah,
<alteregoa> i have to fix those fidonet stuff now
<alteregoa> would be nice to see synchronet for ubuntu
<alteregoa> in the universe
<sven_> so where's the link for the rules in this place?  i don't wanna start asking things and get kicked for being off topic.
<coppro> where's a good guide to packaging libraries?
<cheatr> Could someone give me a hand? I'm trying to recover my revu password. I entered my email address in the box, and left the password blank. I then clicked on the recover link. I entered "gpg -d <<EOT ; echo" in a terminal. I then pasted the encrypted message that was generated after I clicked the recover link. I then typed "EOT" followed by return. I entered the correct password, but nothing gets displayed. Any ideas?
<wgrant> cheatr: It tells you it has decrypted it?
<wgrant> cheatr: What's the email address associated with your REVU account?
<cheatr> wgrant: mrcheatr[at]gmail[dot]com
<cheatr> wgrant: And it doesn't say anything about it being decrypted. It also doesn't complain about an incorrect password. All it does is show info about my gpg key
<wgrant> cheatr: The encryption was correct; you have no password set.
<wgrant> I'll set one.
<cheatr> wgrant: Thanks
<wgrant> cheatr: Try again.
<cheatr> wgrant: Yeah, it worked. Thanks
<cheatr> wgrant: Is there any way to change the password?
<wgrant> cheatr: Not at this point.
<cheatr> wgrant: Ok, I'm glad firefox can remember my password
<LaserJock> wgrant: ping
<wgrant> LaserJock: Hi.
<tbielawa> so there's a ticket in LP asking us to sync dx from debian unstable.
<tbielawa> which is marked to do in MoM
<tbielawa> Whats the proper way to respond to a ticket like this (#226088)
<white> is there a problem with cowbuilder and simple-patchsys from cdbs?
<white> i tried to rebuild two packages in cowbuilder (which build fine in the normal chroot) and both tell me that patches can't be applied, although it all works with patch
<Hobbsee> heya white!
<white> hi :)
 * wgrant uses sbuild instead.
<RAOF> Anyone want to play "Upload to Debian"? :)
<jdong> RAOF: doesn't sound like a very fun game
<RAOF> Sure it is!  I provide some .dsc, and you put your name on them!  How could there be _more_ fun?
<Hobbsee> RAOF: if someone else does the work, and hands the .dsc files.
<bobbo> nxvl: ping
<tbielawa> anyone have an opinion on wether it's more proper to ask policy questions here or on the mailing lists?
<highvoltage> my guess would be that the mailing list is best, probably just because more people would receive your question
<highvoltage> although, if you want a quick answer, it usually doesn't hurt asking on IRC
<highvoltage> you can always follow to the mailing lists after asking on IRC :)
<tbielawa> highvoltage: good policy you have there, I'll try throw it out in here
<jsgotangco> hey highvoltage
<tbielawa> on second thought, I'm not sure what I mean to ask... I'm just thrown off on this part in the PackagingGuide/Basic about dealing with source that has existing debian/ dirs
<tbielawa> I think I figured it out
<tbielawa> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#head-66bb429f7da4cd243a5977c776c661d5e7603e69
<highvoltage> hey jsgotangco
<tbielawa> is that last bullet implying that you should ask for a clean source from upstream and have THEM provide a diff.gz from the source with debian/ included?
<x1250> tbielawa: nope, it refers to another packager
<tbielawa> I'm not following this part then. How do you deal with debianized sources?
<Arby> If pbuilder tells me 'pbuilder: debootstrap failed -> Aborting with an error' how do I find out what the error was?
<Hobbsee> look further up
<Arby> Hobbsee: it says Failure trying to run: chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/build/16928/. dpkg --force-depends --install var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.7-10ubuntu3_i386.deb
<Arby> but no suggestion why it failed
<tbielawa> Arby:  i've been getting that same error!
<Hobbsee> probably because libc6 is not installable.
<Arby> ah, it's not just me then
<Hobbsee> chroots probably can't be created yet.
<tbielawa> I was making a sid environment when I was having problem
<Arby> oh, I've seen people in this channel say they did it already
<Hobbsee> tbielawa: the fact that your sid wants to install ubuntu versions of important packages is a bigger problem.
<Hobbsee> Arby: i suspect they upgraded theirs from hardy.
<Hobbsee> were you doing a create?
<tbielawa> Hobbsee: I had changed my mirror to make sure it was grabbing from debian ;)
<Arby> Hobbsee: any estimate when it is likely to be possible?
<Hobbsee> Arby: 'when it's done'
<Hobbsee> tbielawa: so, why did it pick an ubuntu version?
<Arby> :)
<tbielawa> Hobbsee:  It was failing grabbing the libc6 from debian
<Hobbsee> oh, so that libc6 is also broken.  right
<tbielawa> W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/build/15482/. dpkg --force-depends --install var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.7-10_amd64.deb
<Hobbsee> tbielawa: that telsl you what failed to install - not why it did
<tbielawa> Hobbsee: I know :( I wish it had some more verbose output
<tbielawa> I had hoped that running it with the -log flag would accomplish that, instead it just replicated stdout to my .laslog
<tbielawa> *.lastlog
<tbielawa> Arby: What was your target dist? I had success making hardy environments
<Arby> tbielawa: intrepid
<tbielawa> DId you start right off pointing at intrepid or try and update to it?
<Arby> started off pointing to it
<tbielawa> I'm running it again to be sure, but IIRC I had luck with pbulder --update intrepid; you may try that
<tbielawa> once i had a hardy working, of course.
<Arby> tbielawa: thanks, I'll try that
<tbielawa> Arby: sure thing :)
<tbielawa> the command to run would have been: pbuilder --update --distribution intrepid --override-config
<tbielawa> though I may have hallucinated it working, i got unmet dependencies on libpam-modules, e3fsprogs, util-linux....
 * Hobbsee wonders why you expected it to work
 * tbielawa likes to dream
<cheatr> Would someone here be willing to look at my package on revu? I doubt it is perfect, but I need some feedback.
<RainCT> cheatr: perhaps you'd have more luck if you say the URL :)
<cheatr> RainCT: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=handbrake
<RainCT> cheatr: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/handbrake-0805040510/lintian  here you have to things to fix
<RainCT> cheatr: the changelog should close a bug (Syntax for that is: (LP: #xxxxx) )
<RainCT> cheatr: debian/control has no section
<RainCT> cheatr: copyright is empty in debian/copyright. and replace "Author(s):" with "Authors:"
<cheatr> RainCT: I searched the entire website, and they do not mention a copyright anywhere, any suggestions on what I should do?
<RainCT> cheatr: what is that HandBrakeCLI thing?
<cheatr> RainCT: It is a video converter. It can convert video files or rip and convert a DVD.
<RainCT> cheatr: yes but what sort of file is it?
 * RainCT 's connection is to slow to download that now
<cheatr> HandBrakeCLI: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.1, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
<cheatr> RainCT: This is their linux version of the file. They also offer an SVN version. Should I use that instead?
<RainCT> cheatr: yes
<RainCT> cheatr: you can't just put a binary in a debian source package, you've to use the sources and compile them there
<cheatr> RainCT: Thanks for the feedback. This should keep me busy for a while. I'll probably be back later after I make all the changes you suggested.
<RainCT> cheatr: no problem, good luck
<cheatr> RainCT: One last question. The source code includes file for Macs and Windows. I know we are not meant to modify the source code, but is it really necessary to distribute these files?
<coppro> where's a good guide to library packaging?
<RainCT> cheatr: yes, unless there is *a lot* of non-linux stuff, in which case I'd consider repackaging the tarball.
<RainCT> coppro: also, there's a tarball on the website (http://handbrake.fr/rotation.php?file=HandBrake-0.9.2.tar.gz). use that instead of getting the source from the SVN
<coppro> wrong username :)
<albert23> coppro: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<RainCT> coppro: sorry
<coppro> that one doesn't explain the basics.
<RainCT> coppro: this might also help https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/LibraryPackaging
<coppro> thanks
<RainCT> cheatr: ^^
<cheatr> RainCT: Yeah, I saw that, and that's what I'm using now. The unpacked .tar.gz is about 5.5 mb. ~3.5 of those are from a macosx folder in it. Should I repack it or leave it as is?
<RainCT> cheatr: then it might be worth repackaging it. but better ask for a second opinion
<RainCT> cheatr: and if you repack it create a get-orig-source rule in debian/rules in order to automatically repack later versions
<cheatr> RainCT: I'm not that familiar with the rules file at this point. So I think that I will first try packaging it as is. Once I figure out how to do that correctly, I can try to repackage it to remove the macosx stuff.
<coppro> what do I do for an upstream without a soname?
<cheatr> Are there anymore sections than the ones listed here: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections? I know that Synaptic shows many more sections.
<RainCT> cheatr: afaik, no. Synaptic shows each 3 or 4 times (for each component).
<cheatr> RainCT: Yeah, but for example, Synaptic lists a Multimedia section. There is no Multimedia section listed on the page I linked to
<RainCT> cheatr: well, it changes the names to be user friendlier
<cheatr> RainCT: Thanks again. And do you have any ideas on what I should put for a copyright if the site and original .tar.gz don't mention one anywhere? I have the authors and license, I just don't know who has the copyright
<RainCT> cheatr: check in the source files
<RainCT> cheatr: for example with:  egrep -i Copyright * */* */*/* */*/*/* */*/*/*/*
<StevenK> Or find . -type f | xargs grep -i copyright  ?
<StevenK> grep -Hi, actually
<laga> RainCT: fgrep -r might be easier than all those wildcards ;)
<RainCT> laga: oh, hadn't noticed the -r option. thanks!
<tbielawa> are new packages still being put into <= hardy
<cheatr> RainCT: None of those commands provide anything
<cheatr> tbielawa: No, but you can put them into Intrepid.
<RainCT> tbielawa: no, they get into Intrepid now
<tbielawa> thanks guys
<tbielawa> Is anyone on that can sync the REVU keys?
 * RainCT 
<tbielawa> :-)
<tbielawa> lp/~tbielawa
<RainCT> tbielawa: done ;)
<tbielawa> RainCT: thank ypu
<RainCT> np
<tbielawa> so I send an upload to REVU and I spotted something wrong with it. using --force to try and reupload failed, is there another way to push this to revu without bumping the -ubuntu# ?
<nixternal> tbielawa: remove the .upload file
<tbielawa> nixternal: that seems almost too simple, thanks
<nixternal> no prob
<tbielawa> it worked :) and revu updates every half hour?
<nixternal> is it that long? I never paid attention to that part really
<tbielawa> oh
<tbielawa> I thought I saw that in conversation once
 * tbielawa has been at his console too long. Typing 'exit' into the google search bar does not close your browser
<LaserJock> I think it updates every 5-10 min
<LaserJock> REVU that is
<sebner> LaserJock: I'll mail the GNUStep maintainer group tomorrow when I have my new mail adress ;)
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> that's assuming your address works tomorrow
<sebner> LaserJock: hmm I hope so :)
<LaserJock> mine has been messed up for at least 2 weeks now
<sebner> LaserJock: buh, maybe because you are not that annoying like me ^^
<LaserJock> probably :-)
<sebner> ARGH
<sebner> afflux: damn ping
<afflux> sebner: damn reping :P
<sebner> afflux: did I already say that I hate new bugsquad members?
<afflux> I think so
<sebner> ^^
<sebner> afflux: is the new doc ready so they can stop setting my syncs to "confirmed" ?
<sebner> jono again =)
<LaserJock> what doc are people looking at that says to set them to "confirmed"?
<sebner> LaserJock: could it be that the MC mailinglist is somehow ****** up?
<LaserJock> sebner: why?
<sebner> LaserJock: latest entries are from 2 May
<afflux> bdmurray, ScottK and persia (or was it pochu? lost my logs, can't check anymore) had a talk about that on friday. bdmurray seemed to feel uncomfortable with using LP as a workflow tracker at all
<LaserJock> sebner: is that a problem?
<sebner> LaserJock: Well, I can't follow my application progress :P
<LaserJock> sebner: I'm asking, do you know if there has been an email since the 2nd?
<LaserJock> that's only 2 days ago
<sebner> LaserJock: well, for example norsetto wrote a comment on the 2nd of may and it seems that it arrived today
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> it may have been moderated
<sebner> LaserJock: hmm the other mails arrived pretty quickly but nvm
<LaserJock> if the people who sent them are subscribed then it goes through right away
<sebner> LaserJock: kk, it's just that the 48 hours timeframe for the MC vote on me is now over and I'm so damn excited :)
<LaserJock> I see
<afflux> sebner: which bug is it this time?
<sebner> afflux: the same xD  bug 225669
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225669 in wammu "Please sync wammu 0.26-2 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225669
<LaserJock> afflux: I'm sure bdmurray doesn't like using LP as a workflow tracker, but on the other hand it's not really up to him either
<sebner> afflux: by Alex Mayorga Adame
<afflux> LaserJock: probably. I'm not really sure how to handle it here since some "workflow bugs" are not too easy identifiable by new triagers.
<LaserJock> afflux: IMO, then they shouldn't be triaging
<LaserJock> triagers and developers need to be working close enough that triagers know what a process bug is and developers can keep and eye on new triagers
<afflux> LaserJock: feel free to adjust the HowToTriage page, or tell bdmurray/pedro to do it.
<LaserJock> there are obvious things like merges and syncs
<LaserJock> which we put in the bug title
<LaserJock> that should be a no-brainer to document
<afflux> yes, but then we got SRU and MIR which are workflow-things that often (okay, not too often for MIR) integrate with usual bugs
<LaserJock> sure
<afflux> not sure what other things we have, I'm not a motu.
<afflux> (not even hopeful ;))
<LaserJock> MIR should be easy to spot
<LaserJock> and SRUs will have stable release bug tasks
<LaserJock> so they shouldn't be all the difficult
<proppy> Hi, regarding prevu, is prevu http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/x/xmonad/xmonad_0.7-1.dsc the way to test xmonad backport build from intrepid to hardy ?
<afflux> I'm not the one who is able to decide for any of those things, but IMHO we end up having a rule like "don't touch bugs containing A, B and C, and maybe D, also check for subscribers E and F and release-tasks"
<proppy> (if launched from a prevu-init'ed hardy)
<jdong> proppy: prevu lp:xmonad/intrepid
<jdong> proppy: or if you add intrepid deb-src lines to sources.list prevu xmonad works too (it uses apt-get source)
<proppy> jdong: ho I thought those were for package hosted on launchpad
<jdong> proppy: no for anything with an Ubuntu source package
<proppy> jdong: I mean those whose source are hosted on launchpad with bzr and stuff)
<proppy> jdong: nice
<jdong> proppy: it scrapes from ubuntu/release/+source/pkgname :D
<jdong> muahaha
<proppy> jdong: using beautifulsoup ? :)
<LaserJock> afflux: that sounds reasonable :-)
<jdong> proppy: using wget and regex :D
<afflux> LaserJock: you mean having or not having the rule?
<jdong> (read: it's a hack till LP has a proper interface)
<LaserJock> afflux: have a rule
<LaserJock> afflux: a list of bugs to not worry about
<proppy> jdong: yep I don't know if they got +rdf url for package
<jdong> proppy: I uploaded a new prevu to Intrepid that supports intrepid chroots, and also now defaults to LP urls
<jeromeg> jdong: i backported the whole empathy/telepathy suite to my ppa for Gutsy, if you want to have a look
<afflux> LaserJock: having one sounds entirely reasonable to me too, but we should keep it easy. Like adding a [MOTU] to the summary (or something like that).
<jeromeg> jdong: it seems to work pretty well
<jdong> jeromeg: ok, I'm extremely busy today, I'll tkae a look when I have some time
<jeromeg> jdong: no problem
<LaserJock> afflux: well, it's not just MOTU
<afflux> yes
<proppy> jdong: I'm not intrepid enabled yet :)
<afflux> was an example ;)
<LaserJock> afflux: I'm more in favor of triager education and oversight
<LaserJock> I've had a number of "my" bug messed around with by triagers
<LaserJock> it veries from low-level irritation to hampering progress
<LaserJock> *varies
<proppy> jdong: thanks for the help, prevu creating base tarball
<jdong> proppy: no probs :)
<jdong> proppy: the only reason I mentioned it is because I also use prevu as my pbuilder replacement for test-building to Intrepid
<afflux> LaserJock: IIRC we badly need more bug triagers to cope with new bugs. Education is very much needed, but as I said above, identifying the workflow bugs seems only to be easy when you've been involved in them earlier.
<proppy> jdong: nice, seems it is still using pbuilder behind the scene, but with a nicer user interface :)
<afflux> LaserJock: anyway, again: I'm just a simple bug triager ;) Going to search some food now
<LaserJock> afflux: we badly need more triagers who can properly triage
<LaserJock> afflux: but yes, it's not always very straightforward to triage
<proppy> jdong: should I attach the build log to the bug report ?
<highvoltage> yo LaserJock
<proppy> jdong: or just notice that it was successfull
<i4x> what is 'packaging from scratch'? I want to build my first package with some files (2 scripts, 1 file.c, 1 README and 1 html page).. is 'packaging from scratch' what I need to do? what is the easiest way to build a package?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: hiya
<LaserJock> i4x: well, generally "packaging from scratch" mean created a new package that hasn't existed before
<LaserJock> i4x: as opposed to updating or fixing an existing package
<i4x> yes, that's what I want!
<i4x> create a new one!
<LaserJock> i4x: it can also mean packaging without any sort of helper system (debhelper and cdbs are common ones)
<LaserJock> which you don't want to do
<i4x> LaserJock: so, it is easier to build with cdbs, right?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> you might want to go with a debhelper-based package to start with
<LaserJock> cdbs can be very easy, but can quickly fail if you need non-standard stuff
<LaserJock> i4x: have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide at all?
<i4x> I'm reading it!
<LaserJock> great
<i4x> but it's too much theory!.. and my technical English is not that great!!
<LaserJock> ah, sorry
<i4x> that's why I've asked..
<LaserJock> there's a lot of packaging theory
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/HandsOn#head-c8ef3f625afd4722778766bac36a65cefbb6f26c
<LaserJock> that might help some
<i4x> I've already tried a way!.. and I was pretty close, but there was an error that made me search more and discover the PackagingGuide !!
<i4x> but there are some ways and I can't decide what is the better and easier!.....
<i4x> I'll take a look!..
<LaserJock> the Packaging from Scratch section
<LaserJock> it has a lot of theory but it's important stuff to know
<i4x> lol, that's where I was! :)
<i4x> thx!!
<LaserJock> if you have specific questions you can ask them here
<i4x> that was a general question that helped some!!
<i4x> but I'll do that!! thx again!
<ScottK> sebner: My suggested rule was ubuntu-bugsquad/qa not touch bugs that have ubuntu-universe-sponsors, ubuntu-main-sponsors, ubuntu-archive, ubuntu-release, motu-release, ubuntu-sru, motu-sru, or ubuntu-mir subscribed.
<sebner> ScottK: sounds good to me
<LaserJock> ScottK: or bugs that are assigned?
<LaserJock> that's another thing that get's people I think
<ScottK> Dunno.  That's true, but bugsquad also uses assignment to keep track of who is triaging.
<ScottK> I think you'd need to kill of that practice first (which I would support).
<afflux> ScottK: that's obsolete
<ScottK> They don't do that anymore?
<sebner> ScottK: btw, I have courier debdiff but I have stress at school and I want to ask Mortel 1 or 2 question so you have to wait a little bit, ok?
<afflux> ScottK: some "old" triagers do that
<afflux> ScottK: but the wiki says subscribing now.
<ScottK> sebner: I haven't looked at it, so no rush.
<ScottK> afflux: OK.  Good then.  That's progress.
<ScottK> LaserJock: Then yes, I'd say or assigned.
<sebner> ScottK: kk :) I should be a contributros member so, at least I think so =)
<afflux> Assignments are a general problem though. Some people (mostly non-bugsquad people) just press "assign myself" because it sounds fancy.
<afflux> (at least I think that's the reason)
<ScottK> Or the bug filer assigns MOTU because they think that'll get it fixed faster.
<afflux> right
<afflux> maybe assigning should be restricted on LPs side to be only available for the bug superviser
<sebner> afflux: I personally assign me if I'm working on a merge or something similar though it's also "In Process" then
<LaserJock> well, *somebody* should be monitoring triager's activites
<afflux> sebner: that's the (imho only) correct way to do it.
<ScottK> OTOH, if the bug reporter incorrectly assigning the bug to someone caused a delay in triaging (as in "bonehead, when you do that, the triagers leave it alone") it might prove a deterrent.
<ScottK> LaserJock: For packages I'm subscribed to, I try to do that.
<sebner> There are always pros and cons. hard to find a good solution
<Artemis_Fowl> @LaserJock: hey
<mushroomsven> anyone out there?
<bobbo> norsetto: you around?
<norsetto> bobbo: yes sir
<sebner> huhu no0tic
<bobbo> norsetto: have i done Bug #226088 right so far?
<sebner> huhu norsetto
<sebner> argh
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226088 in dx "Please sync dx 1:4.4.4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226088
<bobbo> norsetto: the comments make me wonder if i messed something up?
<norsetto> bobbo: no, the guy is a new bug triager and is confused
<i4x> LaserJock, dpkg lets us build packages, doesn't it? but it is more difficult, right?
<bobbo> norsetto: ah thanks :)
<norsetto> bobbo: btw,there is a script you can use to automate sync requests
<norsetto> bobbo: requestsync
<bobbo> norsetto: yeah jpatrick told me that about 10 seconds after i filed the bug
<sebner> norsetto: btw, your comment showed up at the ML today O_o
<tbielawa_irl> my bad
<norsetto> sebner: ah, took  its time
<sebner> wired, yes
<norsetto> sebner: if you look for a fun merge, there is flightgear
<emgent> heya
<norsetto> hi emgent
<emgent> norsetto: :)
<sebner> norsetto: I should start crying about merges ^^. Well first I have school stuff todo, then courier. hmm ok you convinced me. I add flightgear on my todo list =)
<ScottK> norsetto: Can we try to get flightgear fixed in Debian now and maybe sync later?
<tbielawa_irl> norsetto: what should i have done on that dx sync bug?
<norsetto> tbielawa_irl: nothing, if it is subscribed to u-u-s its fine
<norsetto> tbielawa_irl: also, if it is a request from a dev and it is subscribed to the archive its fine
<sebner> Ok, ping me when the sync is ready and I'll file a bug then =). school stuff is crying :(  afk
<mushroomsven> hello folks.  quick question:  exactly how experienced do you have to be in writing software to become a successful MOTU?
<tbielawa_irl> norsetto: thanks for clarifying that. i'll check the activity log next time to see if its been subscribed
<i4x>  in "single binary, multiple binary, library, kernel module or cdbs", what is the difference between single and multiple binary?
<norsetto> tbielawa_irl: you can also check directly through the subscribers tab; anyway thanks!
<highvoltage> multiple binary allows you to build multiple packages from one source package, iic
<tbielawa_irl> norsetto: well look at that! didn't even see that before
<highvoltage> norsetto: ooh, you're online. I looked for you earlier to tell you that I love your sense of humour :)
<norsetto> tbielawa_irl: lp can be VERY confusing :-)
<norsetto> highvoltage: what sense of humour!? I'm serious
<tbielawa_irl> norsetto: ya, that's becoming more apparent as time passes. especially policy on setting and subscribing blablabla
<norsetto> scottk: I think we opened a bug on that already which has never been acted upon
<i4x> highvoltage, but are they independent from each other?
<highvoltage> norsetto: Subject: "Application for "Ubuntu Universe Contributors" (Stefan Ebner)" ;)
<ScottK> norsetto: OK.  Just trying to make sure we use time early in the cycle to get Debian and Ubuntu in sync where we can.
<tbielawa_irl> maybe in an effort to better understand policy I'll write some mail client that'll connect to your account that gets your LP & mailing list mail and apply rules for filtering.. alert you if something shouldn't be touched. etc..
<highvoltage> norsetto: the final .deb packages? if you choose multiple binary, then yes
<norsetto> highvoltage: yes, I'm serious (oh well ....)
<tbielawa_irl> grab relevant data from the mail and give you quick links to items like package.ubuntu homepage, related bugs... dunno..
<tbielawa_irl> what would you guys like to see for managing mail from LP and the mailing lists?
<sebner> norsetto: however. I claim it. just to let you know :)
<norsetto> sebner: scottk is right btw, I checked and the guy to whom I asked to report this has never reported it
<sebner> ScottK: ok a merge then. I'll prepare a debdiff at weekend. Damn. Sometimes debian folks don't like us :\
<sebner> norsetto: ah for you
<sebner> ScottK: sry
<ScottK> sebner: Spend the time reporting the bug and providing the patch to Debian.
<sebner> ScottK: I thought that's useless?
<no0tic> sebner?
<ScottK> sebner: Why do you think that?
<sebner> no0tic: sry. damn tab ;)
<no0tic> :)
<sebner> ScottK: because norsetto already reported the changes back?
<sebner> ScottK: ah sry
<ScottK> sebner: No. norsetto asked someone to do that and they didn't.
<sebner> ScottK: Checked it now. So no merge and waiting for a sync since I'll report the changes back. I'm fine with that
<ScottK> sebner: Yes.  Then if it's not fixed in a month or two we go ahead and merge.
<sebner> ScottK: great. /me is writing his todo list and going back to school work
<RainCT> bobbo: please add new changelog entries from Debian to your sync request (bug 226088)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226088 in dx "Please sync dx 1:4.4.4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226088
<bobbo> RainCT: ok :)
<RainCT> bobbo, norsetto: and status should be New, or have the rules changed again?
<nhaines> Greetings, everyone!  :)  I was wondering if anyon could sync the REVU uploaders keyring?
<RainCT> nhaines: sure, one moment
<norsetto> rainct: for what I remember status should be new, and will be confirmed by the sponsor if acceptable
<RainCT> norsetto: yes. Why have you set it back to Confirmed then? :)
<i4x> anyone has time to explain me how to build a package?
<nhaines> i4x There have been two really excellent Ubuntu Open Week sessions on packaging.  That's how I learned.
<bobbo> RainCT: debian changelog up for bug #226088
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226088 in dx "Please sync dx 1:4.4.4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226088
<norsetto> rainct: because it was set to in-progress
<i4x> i'm trying my best to understand the wiki PackagingGuide, but now I'm starting to confuse what seems to be easy!!
<i4x> nhaines, could you explain some quick ideas?
<RainCT> bobbo: sync request ack'd. (btw, it seems like Debian hasn't added the Homepage field, you may want to ask the Maintainer about this)
<RainCT> nhaines: (keyring synced)
<bobbo> RainCT: thanks, i'll email the maintainer about it
<nhaines> RainCT: mucho thanks!  :)
<RainCT> nhaines: you're welcome :)
<nhaines> i4x: it's sort of tricky.  :)  Well, you might want to try and check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekhardy/PackagingA
<RainCT> bobbo: np, thank *you* :)
<bobbo> RainCT: what happens now? Does it need another ACK?
<sebner> RainCT: I should also start asking you for acking my syncs :P
<i4x> nhaines: I just need to build a package that installs some files (2 scripts, 1 file.c, 1 README.txt and a web-page.html) to their folders!! it seems easy!! and I've almost there doing it with 'dpkg-deb --build debian' !! but then I got an error and latter found wikis' PackagingGuide while searching!! now I'm wondering if there's another way!!
<nhaines> i4x: Daniel Holbach went through with a bunch of others and described step by step how to package a program, including how to set everything up.
<RainCT> bobbo: no, now just wait for an archive admin to do the sync.
<bobbo> RainCT: nice one :)
<nhaines> It's not terribly difficult, but maybe seeing the process through will help.  That's the only way I could figure it out!
<i4x> thx!!
<i4x> nhaines, I'll take a look at it!!
<Arby> I'm trying to merge k3b, the report file has 'C* debian/k3b.files' I can find k3b.files.DEBIAN, shouldn't there also be a k3b.files.UBUNTU?
<Arby> because I don't have one
<Arby> so I don't understand what the conflict is.
<crimsun> Arby: because the current k3b Ubuntu source package lacks a debian/k3b.files altogether.
<Arby> ok, so adding something new counts as a conflict, I hadn't realised that
<Arby> do I just rename it to k3b.files then?
<crimsun> if that's the appropriate action, yes.
<crimsun> (MoM/DaD is only a starting point)
<Arby> well it's my best guess based on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<Arby> from what I've read if I have foo.DEBIAN and foo.UBUNTU I should chose one or the other or combine them
<Arby> and I seem to have a choice of 1 here
<Arby> that's why I'm confused
<Arby> the file in question contains a list of directory paths, I think it describes where various components should be placed.
<Arby> do we stick to where debian recommends to place things?
<crimsun> yes, unless there's a really good reason to do otherwise
<crimsun> there's a debian/KUBUNTU-DEBIAN-DIFFERENCES file worth reading.
<Arby> crimsun: I'm just reading it now
<Arby> although it doesn't all make sense
<crimsun> I've not merged k3b (that I recall); try asking the previous merger
<nhaines> RainCT: Now that I've uploaded my package to REVU, I just patiently wait, correct?  :)
<RainCT> nhaines: yes. I guess it won't take much (a few weeks perhaps) until people start looking at REVU again, then you can ask here on Mondays (REVU Day :)) for reviews
<nhaines> Okay, that sounds good!  :)  Thanks.  This is my first package, so I'm excited.  Hopefully if I do well I can pick up another package or two.
<bobbo> RainCT: is tomorrow a REVU day or is it too early in the cycle?
<RainCT> bobbo: I haven't seen any announcement so I don't think so
<bobbo> RainCT: ok, thanks
<RainCT> and if it was a REVU day it would already have started; it's already Monday in some places in the world (not here though) :)
<nxvl> bobbo: pong
<bobbo> hey nxvl is it OK if i do the apt-torrent merge? You were the last uploader so i thought i'd check
<Kopfgeldjaeger> n8
<nxvl> bobbo: yes
<nxvl> bobbo: go ahead!
<bobbo> nxvl: thanks :)
<nxvl> bobbo: if you need some help just ask for it
<nxvl> :D
<bobbo> nxvl: It looks fairly straightforward but thanks a lot :)
<RainCT> good night
<nhaines> Good night, RainCT.
<greg-g> ok, packaging question, it might be a typo/mistake in the guide I'm not sure
<greg-g> looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<greg-g> at the "dh_make -e your.maintainer@address -f ../hello-2.1.1.tar.gz" step
<greg-g> ask you see the dir you are in is hello-debhelper-2.1.1, and thus my Package Name from dh_make is hello-debhelper
<greg-g> however, in the guide it is just "hello"
<greg-g> is this my mistake or the guide's?
<greg-g> (I'm not sure if "thus" is the correct word in that sentence, since I am just assuming that is where dh_make got the name from)
<Arby> trying to build a package after a merge by running debuild -S fails with 'debian/rules:63: *** target file `clean' has both : and :: entries. Stop.'
<Arby> does that mean the target file is called clean or the target of the section named clean in debian/rules?
<superm1> Amaranth, ping
<Amaranth> superm1: pong
<superm1> Amaranth, wanted to get an idea about how you felt about this before getting the SRU together on it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/160264
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 160264 in dell "[nvidia] compiz displays white screen when locked" [High,Confirmed]
<Amaranth> oh yeah, that one
<Amaranth> probably should get that into our bzr repo and into intrepid before doing an SRU
<Amaranth> talk to mvo tomorrow
<superm1> well hence why i'm talking to you before going above your head :)
<Amaranth> i'm not core-dev so mvo ends up doing most of the packaging work as all the pieces have to be coordinated
<norsetto> greg-g: your tarball name is hello-2.1.1.tar.gz and your source tree top directory is hello-debhelper-2.1.1
<superm1> ah, i thought you were
<superm1> okay
<greg-g> norsetto: correct...
<norsetto> greg-g: so, where is the problem?
<greg-g> the discrepency between what I see and what the guide shows
<norsetto> greg-g: what do you see?
<greg-g> Package Name: hello-debhelper
<norsetto> greg-g: the package name is from debian/control
<greg-g> I thought the debian dir was created by dh_make (this is my first time obviously)
<norsetto> greg-g: yes, thats correct
<greg-g> so, I guess my question still stands, in the example in the guide, should the Package Name as reported by dh_make be "hello-debhelper" or "hello"
<norsetto> greg-g: what is filled by dh-make in debian/control and debian/changelog ?
<RAOF> Arby: It sounds like the merge is broken; is there both a clean: and a clean:: target in debian/rules?
<greg-g> when I just did it, hello-debhelper
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, hello there!! have a question... should i filter all .po files from a debdiff?
<norsetto> greg-g: ok , so the package name will be hello-debhelper
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: yes
<RAOF> Arby: Just because there aren't any conflicts, doesn't mean that the merge is correct :)
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, thanks :D
<greg-g> norsetto: then should the guide be changed to reflect that?
<norsetto> greg-g: let me check
<i4x> people.. telling that the copyright is GPL, I won't get any errors from any GPG, right?
<greg-g> norsetto: k, thanks
<Arby> RAOF: no there is only clean: in /debian rules
<Arby> or debian/rules even
<i4x> what is GPG?
<RAOF> Arby: Want to pastebin debian/rules?
<Arby> RAOF: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10098/
<RAOF> Arby: Heh.  Merging gone haywire :)
<Arby> so it would seem
<RAOF> Arby: That rules file is totally broken; it looks like you've merged a CDBS and debhelper rules file together.  Hilarity ensues.
<jdong> RAOF: ROFL nice!
<jdong> RAOF: good reason to double-check automated merge output :D
 * jdong glares at git merge....
<Arby> that's what I'm trying to do :(
<norsetto> greg-g: just change hello to hello-debhelper in the sample debian/control and debian/changelog, thx
<i4x> anyone knows the difference between GPG and GPL??
<jdong> Arby: hang in there man, we'll figure it out :)
<Arby> RAOF: the untouched version is http://paste.ubuntu.com/10099/
<greg-g> norsetto: ok, but now I'm confused :)
<jdong> i4x: apples and oranges
<RAOF> Arby: Right.  So, you can't merge the rules file; you'll need to pick one (probably the Debian one, unless there's a good reason why we diverge).
<jdong> i4x: GPG is a cryptographic system for encrypting/signing stuff. GPL is an open source license.
<greg-g> norsetto: oh, you mean on the wiki or my build?
<norsetto> greg-g: on the wiki
<greg-g> norsetto: gotcha, not confused anymore :)
<jdong> i4x: the "whatis" tool at the command line is pretty cool for deciphering 3-letter jargon like this
<Arby> RAOF: there is only one rules file, so I removed the Ubuntu section (one line), and left the debian section
<greg-g> norsetto: thanks for the help/confirmation on that.  I know it was a very picky question.
<norsetto> greg-g: I guess also in the example showing the output of dh_make
<RAOF> Arby: In this case the merged file is useless to us; you'll need to manually look at Debian's rules and Ubuntu's rules, figure out why they diverge, and pick one.
<RAOF> Arby: Talking to the last person who touched k3b is likely to help in this, as is the changelog(s)
<norsetto> greg-g: where it says "Package Name    : hello"
<crimsun> sigh, we really should have waited until 8.10 to have PA use hw:*
<i4x> jdong: thx..
<Arby> hmm, that sounds like a big job best postponed until tomorrow
<Arby> it's getting late here
<greg-g> norsetto: yep will do
<superm1> jdong, so what did you have to say about the handbrake build system?
<Amaranth> crimsun: why is that?
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, coudl you check this please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blam/+bug/226670
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226670 in blam "Please merge blam 1.8.5-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]
<crimsun> Amaranth: oh, the whole ALSA regression bits
<Amaranth> crimsun: ah, right
<crimsun> we've just broken an entire class of audio/video apps that don't have native PA plugins
<Amaranth> i thought you meant make it run on dmix, i know nothing about how sound works :)
<crimsun> well, yes, that's how it _should_ have been done for 8.04.
<crimsun> not to mention that a lot of ice17xx-based cards don't work by default in GNOME
<wgrant> Might that be appropriate for 8.04.1 as long as there is a lot of testing?
<crimsun> wgrant: I've asked for a lot of testing
<wgrant> Where?
<crimsun> wgrant: 1928888
<crimsun> 192888*
<wgrant> -8?
<Amaranth> bug 192888
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 192888 in pulseaudio "firefox crashes on flash contents when using libflashsupport" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192888
<norsetto> greg-g: we can also just modify the dh_make command to force the hello name (dh_make -p hello etc. etc.)
<crimsun> note that the proper fix for that bug is really to enable nspluginwrapper for i386 in hardy-proposed
<greg-g> norsetto: should we do that instead, since it appears there are other references later in the guide to the package as only "hello" ?
<wgrant> crimsun: Won't that only stop Firefox going down with it?
<norsetto> greg-g: I think it would be easier
<crimsun> wgrant: yes, which is the concern of that bug report
 * greg-g nods
<wgrant> I would have thought the solution would be to stop Flash crashing. But I guess that's not possible.
<crimsun> TheMuso_: which HDA codec (and revision) is on the machine(s) that have the caching issue?
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: I really haven't got the time now, did you talk with asac as I suggested?
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, havent find him online asa
<superm1> crimsun, this may be a silly question; has Adobe been made aware of the issue that you know of?
<crimsun> superm1: yes, both privately and publicly
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: please do try to talk with him, he is THE mozilla guy
<superm1> crimsun, and have they indicated that a resolution is at least in progress?
<superm1> crimsun, perhaps with some sort of ETA?
<norsetto> g'night all
<crimsun> superm1: they've pretty much ignored the issue.
<crimsun> SEP, IOW.
<crimsun> "not our code, not our problem"
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, ok i'll try to be aware if he comes online, thanks :D
<superm1> crimsun, but it has been proven to be a bug in their code as my understanding though?
<sebner> gn8 folks
<superm1> with it's 'interactions' with "other" people's code
<crimsun> superm1: a bug, yes.  The _only_ bug?  No.
<superm1> given this release being an LTS, I would hope that there is an OSV/ISV interaction going on from Canonical in terms of prioritizing it, and that just not being publicized, but i'd be reluctant to fully believe that since it still doesn't live in partner, multiverse, or restricted
<superm1> (mearly that installer living in multiverse)
<TheMuso_> crimsun: Caching issue?
<crimsun> TheMuso_: PulseAudio from bzr
<crimsun> TheMuso_: Sorry, meaning the sample cache issue
<TheMuso_> crimsun: Well one machine I tested with doesn't have hda. Its got standard ac97/intel8x0 module.
<crimsun> I've tested six different HDA codecs this weekend running around retail outlets; none of them have the issue so far
<TheMuso_> Let me test on another machine right away.
<crimsun> TheMuso_: ok, Sigmatel AC'97?
<TheMuso_> crimsun: No intel.
<TheMuso_> Let me check to be sure.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Its Intel ICH4.
<TheMuso> Going to test on a machine with an emu10k1 card now.
<crimsun> TheMuso: that's what's in /proc/asound/card*/*codec*/* ?
<TheMuso> hang on I'll have a look.
<TheMuso> crimsun: http://www.pastebin.ca/1007502
<crimsun> cool, a ThinkPad?
<crimsun> I think I can poke the people at AD
<crimsun> TheMuso: ok, I have a testing point now.  I'll try again tonight to reproduce it.
<crimsun> TheMuso: thanks.
<TheMuso> crimsun: np.
<TheMuso> yeah a thinkpad.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Same behavior on an emu10k1 based card.
<crimsun> TheMuso: ltrace would be useful at this point
<crimsun> not that I expect anything eye-opening, but...
<TheMuso> crimsun: So should I run gnome-sound-properties through that for example?
<TheMuso> Since I can trigger the message/error with that.
<crimsun> TheMuso: and through esdplay (in esound-clients), please.
<crimsun> sorry, s/through/via/
<TheMuso> crimsun: Does that do sample caching?
<crimsun> well, libesd* is common
<crimsun> gah, lag.  No, it doesn't AFAICT.
<crimsun> (basically, see if it's PA that's the culprit, and if so, why using additional libasound features effectively neuters caching)
<crimsun> (it doesn't make any sense that it's only reproducible on certain cards, since the PA bit is identical)
<TheMuso> crimsun: http://www.pastebin.ca/1007521 for gnome-sound-properties
 * TheMuso gathers output for esdctl.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-03
<stevecrozz> is there a problem with launchpad ppa right now? I uploaded a package using dput a few hours ago and still haven't gotten a message
<stevecrozz> usually it sends a message (accepted or denied) within a few minutes
<dholbach> good morning
<slytherin> good morning
<Rhonda> slytherin: Thought you had fetched it already, did some cleanup in my waste dump, sorry. :)
<slytherin> Rhonda: As i said, I was updating ISO images. And my internet connection is of limited speed.
<Rhonda> I remember, I just didn't think about that when I cleaned up. %-)
<slytherin> dholbach: I was referring to bug 486450 the other day. It has been fixed for a while. Still it shows on sponsorship queue page.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 486450 in gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10 "Typo in package description: "This packages"" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/486450
<dholbach> slytherin: alright, I'll take a look in a sec
<slytherin> Rhonda: Can you please republish the packages? I have time today so I can do basic testing. And I want to upgrade my PC to lucid soon.
<dholbach> slytherin: that's not a bug in the sponsoring overview
<dholbach> slytherin: the bug is closed, but the merge proposal ist still marked as "needs review"
<slytherin> oh
<slytherin> how to i solve that?
<dholbach> james_w can mark it "merged" ... if it is
<Rhonda> slytherin: Yes, I'm currently uploading. :)
<Rhonda> slytherin: http://deb.at/~rhonda/waste/2010-05-03-9GYi1r0kKWs/
<slytherin> Rhonda: did you change version? These are backport packages, right?
<Rhonda> These is the source from lucid built in a karmic environment.
<Rhonda> Didn't change the version, no.
<Rhonda> Or â¦ wait.
<Rhonda> No, didn't change the version.
<slytherin> Rhonda: The packages you published before has ~bpo** in version. That's why I asked.
<Rhonda> Oh.
<Rhonda> Then I handed you the wrong ones before anyway. Good that I got rid of them!
<Rhonda> Those were built in a Debian lenny chroot.  %-/
<slytherin> :-)
<Rhonda> So thanks a lot for asking!
<slytherin> I am downloading these packages right now. Will take at least 2 hours.
<Rhonda> Enjoy ;)
<slytherin> persia: Is u-u-s team still relevant? Or should I let my membership expire?
<Rhonda> Is there a faint of a posibility that wesnoth 1.8.1 might be accepted into lucid proposed instead of lucid backports?
<slytherin> Rhonda: Ideally you should cherry pick fixes from upstream. Also considering that 1.8.1 release add a new UI element it may not be acceptable as it is in -proposed.
<Rhonda> slytherin: It doesn't add a "new" UI element, it adds back an _old_ UI element because the new one doesn't work properly. :)
<slytherin> Rhonda: hmm. In that case it might be acceptable. Still you should discuss before hand with someone from SRU team.
<Rhonda> But sweet to know that you are tracking it, too. ;)
<slytherin> I keep checking project news every now and then. I am actually eager to check the new artwork in 1.8.
<slytherin> And of course new campaigns
<Rhonda> slytherin: There is only one new campaign - but that one can even be played in multiplayer. ;)
<james_w> dholbach: you should be able to mark it "Merged" as well, along with anyone else that can upload the package
<slytherin> james_w: I don't see an option to mark it as merged even though I have upload rights
<james_w> there's no edit icon next to the status at the top?
<slytherin> nope
<james_w> what's the URL?
<slytherin> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~arky/ubuntu/lucid/gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10/fix-486450/+merge/19013
<james_w> hmm
<james_w> I have one, that's a bug then
<james_w> slytherin: can you file a bug against launchpad-code please?
<james_w> I have merged it now
<slytherin> james_w: wait, is it because the reviewer assigned is 'ubuntu branches'?
<james_w> slytherin: that may have something to do with it, but you should still have the button
<slytherin> I will file a bug
<james_w> thanks
<slytherin> james_w: Did you just mark it as merged?
<geser> IIRC the button was once there, but apparently vanished again
<james_w> I did
<dholbach> james_w: I'm not member of ubuntu branches
<dholbach> james_w: maybe that's the reason why?
<james_w> yes
<james_w> but that's not supposed to be the way it works
<dholbach> I see
<james_w> it's supposed to be that if you have upload rights you can change these things
<james_w> and I fixed it a few weeks ago
<james_w> but it seems to have broken again
<ricotz> Laney, directhex - fyi Docky 2.0.3 is released :-)
<soren> ricotz: How does it relate to the 2.1.0 think in the PPA?
<soren> s/think/thing/
<ricotz> soren, 2.1 is the development/trunk branch which will end up in a 2.1.0 release with new features
<ricotz> 2.0 is feature frozen so it can meet a SRU
<soren> ricotz: I see. Is there a PPA with the stable one in it?
<soren> Not that the 2.1 one has been unstable, really. It works very well for me.
<ricotz> soren, no there is no stable ppa
<soren> The only problem I've had with Docky is that when I start a guest session, I have both the gnome panel at the bottom as well as docky.
<kklimonda> ahow do you keep control over all sources, branches and tarballs you end up with because of various motu related activities?
<soren> kklimonda: Carefully. Very carefully.
<soren> ricotz: Alright.
<kklimonda> soren: I can barely contain the mess in ~/code/ and prevent it from spreading it all over my home directory ;)
<ricotz> soren, there is nothing we can do about it, the panel needs to be removed somehow
<soren> ricotz: Yeah, not blaming you guys at all. I understand the problem.
<ricotz> RAOF, you are arround, perhaps you want to take this docky release update ;-)
<slytherin> Rhonda: Tested the backport. Played first 3 scenarios of 'Tale of Two Brothers'.
<Rhonda> \o/
<Rhonda> slytherin: Can you please add it as comment to bug #570609
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570609 in karmic-backports "Please backport wesnoth-1.8 (1:1.8-3ubuntu1/universe)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570609
<slytherin> Rhonda: Done.
<slytherin> I will go ahead and install Lucid on my PC now.
<Rhonda> So what's next? Should I mark it as confirmed?
<slytherin> I don't know how backports procedure work. It has been really long since I requested any.
<Rhonda> ScottK, persia: Shall I set bug #570609 to confirmed, or shall I rather try to get some more tester?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570609 in karmic-backports "Please backport wesnoth-1.8 (1:1.8-3ubuntu1/universe)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570609
<Rhonda> The backup process in the wiki isn't too clear on that part, it's a bit fuzzy.
<persia> I'm not a backporter, but I usually see two testers beyond the requestor.
<Rhonda> Alright, thanks for the response anyway. :)
<ari-tczew> where maverick is looking in Debian? testing or unstable?
<micahg> ari-tczew: should be unstable, as should be lucid now
<micahg> oh maybe not
<ari-tczew> micahg: lucid? LTS = work with testing
<micahg> no, I was right, pull-debian-source pulls from unstable now in LUcid
<ari-tczew> micahg: but I mean about development cycle like autosync... I think that you know what I mean about
<micahg> ari-tczew: dev for Lucid was with testing, now dev for Maverick on Lucid is with unstable
<ari-tczew> micahg: ok. btw. now is time to fix forever libjdic :>
<micahg> ari-tczew: as soon as I finish porting about 30 other packages in Hardy/Jaunty :)
<ari-tczew> micahg: nice! good luck ;-)
<Laney> james_w: is the debian importer off?
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: are you interested in merging transsmision?
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: yes
<ari-tczew> nice
<james_w> Laney: yeah, for at least a few more hours yet
<Laney> ok then
<james_w> should make it such that it only pauses one distro when there is a release
<ricotz> Laney, can i provide you a debdiff for docky?
<Laney> ricotz: just saw your pm, what is it for?
<ricotz> Laney, it fixes bug 573294, bug 540688, bug 555562 and an installation problem on kubuntu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 573294 in docky "Crash reading Crossover launcher" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/573294
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540688 in docky "banshee_control.py crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540688
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 555562 in docky "crash accessing Gnome keyring in Lucid" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/555562
<ricotz> Laney, this should really go in
<Laney> so you already have the diff?
<ricotz> Laney, it should be no backport
<Laney> then what needs doing is the sru paperwork
<Laney> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<ricotz> yes, i have
<ricotz> Laney, infact the whole 2.0.3.1 release could be considerd that way
<ricotz> i will attach my debdiff to a one of these bugs
<Laney> please do the SRU stuff and then subscribe ubuntu-sru to one of the bugs
<Laney> i'll sponsor it for you if they approve it
 * Rhonda wants a usable git-bzr %-(
<imbrandon> Rhonda: me to
<Laney> usable how?
<Laney> I've managed to use it before
<Rhonda> Well, working and stuff. To be able to clone from bzr and push back.
<Laney> oh, not pushing
<Laney> but cloning worked
<imbrandon> yea need both, e.g. i work on lots of debian stuff on alioth and github, and lots of ubuntu stuff on LP
<imbrandon> and it would be great to use one rcs
<imbrandon> yea i know there is bzr-git , but afaik you cant push with it
<Laney> I just have ubuntu branches in git if there's the need
<Rhonda> imbrandon: and bzr-git is the other way round, too. ;)
<imbrandon> Rhonda: yea, git-* would be ideal imho
<imbrandon> git-svn git-bzr etc
 * imbrandon yawns
<imbrandon> ScottK: prod
<imbrandon> poke , all that good stuff
<imbrandon> ScottK: i added a new task to LP bug 571986 , forgot that dapper ( server ) is still supported , not sure if you'll get an notification or not
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571986 in karmic-backports "Please Backport apt-mirror 0.4.7-0ubuntu1 to to Hardy" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571986
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> imbrandon: Why is it in karmic-backports when it's wanted to get backported to Hardy?  *puzzled*
<Rhonda> Oh. Meta-backports-bug :)
<imbrandon> Rhonda: yup ;)
 * Rhonda blames ubottu for cofusing.
<imbrandon> Rhonda: and actualy its backporting to dapper, the others are done ;)
<Rhonda> confusing even, so much that I can't even type anymore.
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> thats ok , i've switched my "dev" machine to squeeze over the weekend, talk about confused ;)
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek starting in 23m in #ubuntu-classroom
<ari-tczew> could someone open a task on karmic in bug 574262 ? I want to prepare a patch to fix it by sru.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574262 in gdm "Please backport to Karmic GDM fix for bug #463376" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574262
<MTecknology> what's SRU?
<jpds> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<MTecknology> thanks
<imbrandon> ScottK: ty
<ScottK> yw
<imbrandon> ScottK: i dident realy think about it before but it fell under the "server" support
<ScottK> Right.  Makes sense.  Most people don't think much about Dapper anymore.
<imbrandon> since its cli and ment to be run mostly on servers even if desktops "can" run it
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> there probably isnt even any users of it in dapper still, but ya never know ;)
<imbrandon> i think from here on out though i'm gonna try the SRU route, it might make more sense until 0.5 is released ( 0.4.X are bugfix releases )
<imbrandon> 0.X being new feature-sets
<imbrandon> clean.sh being the next major function i need to "fix" e.g. it works but ummm not all that great and not how most would think it does , honestly suprised there isnt more/any bugs filed about it upstream/in debian/in ubuntu
 * imbrandon goes back to making the ubuntuone music store work in debian
<stevecrozz> i sent a few packages to my ppa yesterday but got no confirmation and they don't appear in my ppa build queue... is there a problem with the build system right now?
<imbrandon> stevecrozz: hrm, PPA's should still build, have you actualy checked the status on LP for the PPA , maybe the email went to spam/blackwhole
<imbrandon> blackhole*
<stevecrozz> imbrandon: yeah, I don't see any updates here in LP
<stevecrozz> I used dput and it looked like it worked fine
<imbrandon> stevecrozz: then it likely got silently rejected , i would try to reupload, if it was waiting on a buildd it would say so on LP
<stevecrozz> ok, I'll try again
<ScottK> imbrandon: I know there are still server users on Dapper.  I've gotten Dapper specific clamav bugs in the not too distant past.
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> true i still get bugs from debian old-stable
<imbrandon> lol
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: You recently commented on the package in revu. I didn't understand this line of yours:- Packaging appears to be licensed under GPL-3, rather than "GPL-3 or later." This can cause legality issues in the future.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: it's what someone mentioned on IRC before.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: your package is considered a "derivative work" of the upstream package.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: It means that I should change it to only GPL3?
<hyperair> you need to make it GPL-3+
<hyperair> basically GPL version >= 3
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: in upstream or package?
<hyperair> in package.
<hyperair> upstream is GPL-3+
<hyperair> package is GPL-3
<hyperair> GPL states that you must license derivative works under the same version or greater of GPL.
<hyperair> so if upstream changes to GPL-4, your packaging is no longer usable.
<hyperair> it becomes illegal to use it
<hyperair> you'll have to repackage from scratch
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: fine
<AnAnt> hyperair: repackage for scratch ? or just change the license ?
<Rhonda> hyperair: Why would one have to make it gpl3 or later and can't stick with gpl3 only?
<Laney> is it a derivative?
<Laney> i can't imagine that 3 and 3+ will be incompatible
<hyperair> packaging work is considered a derivative, is it not?
<hyperair> 3 and 3+ aren't incompatible
<Rhonda> Because gpl3 only actually is a sub amount of gpl3 or later and thus compatible.
<hyperair> this is a theoretical case, where GPL-4 comes out, and upstream changes to GPL-4+
<Rhonda> The other way round is an issue.
<Rhonda> Not this direction.
<Rhonda> Yes, at _that_ point it might become incompatible.
<hyperair> yes, so this is providing for the future.
<Rhonda> But only with incorporating future changes.
<hyperair> are you saying that we should just ignore the fact that GPL-4 might come out in the future and not plan ahead?
<Rhonda> It won't render the current version invalid, neither now nor in the future.
<hyperair> meaning tht the packaging becomes useless once upstream switches to GPL-4?
<hyperair> won't it?
<Rhonda> No, it won't.
<hyperair> why not?
<Rhonda> Because it doesn't incorporate code now that is gpl4 (or later)
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: I have uploaded the package with ALL the fixes to revu, should be available soon
<hyperair> Rhonda: that is now.
<hyperair> Rhonda: i'm talking about if/when upstream upgrades to GPL-4
<hyperair> the packaging won't be able to be relicensed to GPL-4+
<Rhonda> hyperair: Me too. Even _then_ _this_ now created package can stay gpl3.
<hyperair> Rhonda: and the packaging won't be able to be ported forwards.
<Rhonda> Why won't it be able to be relicensed?
<hyperair> because GPL-3 != GPL-3+?
<Rhonda> Why do you think so?
<joaopinto> "per license X" is not compatible to " per license X and  >X"
<Rhonda> Right. But the person who wrote it might still relicense it.
<carstenh> people die
<joaopinto>  per license X and  >X includes an extra clause which you dropped
<Laney> why would it necessarily be a problem anyway?
<Laney> stuff with multiple licenses is combined all the time
<Rhonda> The packaging isn't that voodoo magic anyway.
<Rhonda> carstenh: The world dies too, slowly.
 * hyperair facepalm
<joaopinto> someone picking up the derivative work would not be able to re-distribute to a new license, violating the original license statement
<Rhonda> And actually people like to stick to gpl2 only because of not being happy with some of the additions in gpl3. The same might happen with gpl4 too.
<hyperair> how about "let's just play safe"
<Rhonda> So people might actually prefer to _actively_ decide themself wether they might want to transition with their code.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: check the new upload now on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnome-media-player
<Rhonda> hyperair: Exactly. gpl3 only might be a "play safe" approach for some people. :)
<carstenh> Rhonda: the world will die only once because there is only one. all people die sometimes and additionnally some stop beeing reachable by mail even earlier
<hyperair> Rhonda: but upstream is GPL-3+
<Rhonda> hyperair: So? The packaging isn't magic, again. :)
<hyperair> Rhonda: meaning "let's throw away existing packaging and repackage because we didn't make accomodations for the future"?
<Rhonda> hyperair: %:\n\tdh @$@@$
<Rhonda> â¦ or such.
<ScottK> If the packager doesn't want to license their work under the terms of whatever oddity FSF thinks up next, they should be able to do so.
<Rhonda> hyperair: Actually it's even better to suggest to put packaging under BSD or MIT and _not_ what upstream chooses.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: is the package ok?
<Rhonda> That way it is possibl eto share packaging amongst different packages where upstream sources are incompatible with each other.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: i'm not a computer. i take time to review things! given how fast these people are pinging me, it'll take even longer >_>
<hyperair> and yes, since we've got so many concerned MOTUs discussing this package, why don't you all also review it?
<Rhonda> hyperair: GPL3+ might not be the best option neither, that's what I'm saying.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: why is vlc suggested?
<bilalakhtar> Yes, a fellow motu is asking for help, please help a fellow motu!
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: Try running the app, you will come to know
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: why don't you tell me, since i'm lazy to run it.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: ok telling
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: This app uses 3 engines for playing media (libvlc, xine-lib, gstreamer)
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: the app allows you to select an engine for playing the particular file
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: not that this hinders uploading the package, but making packages lintian clean even when all checks are turned on doesn't hurd and makes sponsors happy (or sad because they are not able to find minor possible enhancements)
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: so why "vlc" and not just "libvlc"?
<Rhonda> hihi, "doesn't hurd". Sweet typo. ;)
<hyperair> lol
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: libvlc is NOT enough for playing videos in gnome-media-player, you need the x components of vlc also, which are (unluckily) found in vlc
<carstenh> :)
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: your watch file doesn't work. run 'uscan --dehs --no-download' to test
<Rhonda> hyperair, carstenh: Sorry for the meta discussion, but I still believe that chosing explicitly _not_ GPL for the packaging work is the best option.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: with libvlc you can play audio files, but playing video files in vlc mode requires one to have vlc installed
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: will check that out
 * hyperair wonders what the dh_make copyright template is licensed under
<Rhonda> Now my young one needs food
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: CAn you please help me with this? the current source tarball is located on http://launchpad.net/gnome-media-player/development/0.1.2/+download/gnome-media-player-0.1.2.tar.gz . How do I make a regex for it?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: is there a page with a list of all tarballs?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: This project is registered on lp, so the page is https://launchpad.net/gnome-media-player/+download
<carstenh> Rhonda: everything more restrictive than mit, 2-clause bsd or our beloved former project leader's license is imho not a suitable license for debian/*, so we seem to agree :) (and GPLn-only is the worst free license one can choose)
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: https://launchpad.net/gnome-media-player/+download .*/gnome-media-player-([0-9.]+)\.tar\.gz
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: thanks A LOT
<hyperair> =)
<Rhonda> carstenh: Actually I'm thinking of suggesting the WTFPL as sole packaging license for the pkg-games team.
<hyperair> what's WTFPL?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: Shouldn't it be https://launchpad.net/gnome-media-player/+download/.*/gnome-media-player-([0-9.]+)\.tar\.gz
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: no, the space is needed.
<maco> hyperair:  do whatever tf you want with the code
<Rhonda> hyperair: I could tell you but then I might get kicked from the channel ;)
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: fine
<carstenh> hyperair: do what the hell you want with it
<hyperair> Rhonda: just say it. we're very lenient people...
<hyperair> ...i think =p
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: see "man uscan"
<Rhonda> hyperair: it's the What The F... Public License
<maco> hyperair: nah im pretty sure the F isnt allowed in here
<carstenh> actually not "hell"
<Rhonda> hyperair: It has one statement: Do What The F... you want to do with it
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: when there's a space, it means that it's two arguments, i.e. first the page to look at, second, the regex to look for in the hrefs
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: saw it, thanks
<hyperair> maco: the dots helped.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: okay, i don't see any more issues with it. time for a test build.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: uploaded, waiting for revu to show it on the page
<hyperair> ok
 * Rhonda actually wonders wether the license, as it uses profanity, is a violation of the Ubuntu CoC and such licensed stuff should get banned from ubuntu. ;)
<carstenh> Rhonda: you are right, debian/patches/* licensed under bsd 2-clause with upstream gpl would be suboptimal
 * hyperair waits for his maverick cowbuilder to finish installing.
<Rhonda> carstenh: Why so?
<bilalakhtar> cowbuilder?
<hyperair> Rhonda: because the patches are derivative works...
<Rhonda> Doesn't the bsd 2-clause permit relicensing?
<hyperair> Rhonda: upstream gpl.
<hyperair> Rhonda: those patches are not legal to be applied.
<Rhonda> Ah, because of the context â¦
<Rhonda> hyperair: Of course they are legal to be applied.
<hyperair> er
<hyperair> fine, the result of applying cannot be legally distributed
<Rhonda> hyperair: They will get relicensed as per GPL and are allowed to get reliccensed as per their own license.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: cowdancer with a pbuilder interface.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: copy-on-write builder.
<Rhonda> Of course it can be legally distributed.
<carstenh> Rhonda: one clause says "please include me in source" which would make (at least) one file in upstream licensed under gpl and bsd if upstream meges the patch
<Rhonda> hy	The patches _themself_ are because of the contained context a violation of the GPL if put under a different license.
<Rhonda> _That's the issue.
 * bilalakhtar prays to god to get the package inside with no more problems :)
<hyperair> Rhonda: i'm not cut out to be a lawyer
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: heheh it's looking bright. you just need one more advocate after me, if all goes well =p
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: its up on revu
<fabrice_sp> hmm, what happened to mk-sbuild-lv?
<fabrice_sp> it was there in karmic and not in lucid
<hyperair> oh speaking of which i was supposed to try sbuild..
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<carstenh> Rhonda: neither bsd nor mit permit relicensing (if you define relicensing as removing the old license text and adding another one)
 * hyperair groans. my .pbuilderrc was wrong and cowbuilder create failed!
<hyperair> retry....
 * bilalakhtar wishes he had the knowledge to use pbuilder so he could help hyperair 
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: that won't work.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: well you should test your packages in pbuilder/cowbuilder/sbuild first, before uploading to revu.
<hyperair> you mean you didn't?
<hyperair> and after building, you should still run lintian on the binary packages
<fabrice_sp> fyi, mk-sbuild-lv became mk-sbuild
<hyperair> fabrice_sp: thanks
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: oh, I built it using debuild (which runs lintian) and have tried many ppa uploads of it
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: and after that, the sponsor still has to pbuilder/cowbuilder it to make sure that the sponsor didn't bluff =p
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: well, learn to use pbuilder =p
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: it's not so hard, especially with pbuilder-dist around
<hyperair> good grief. this ayatana list is really active.
<hyperair> i look away for 20 minutes to do some review work, and next thing i know, i've got another 20 odd emails in my inbox!
<hyperair> but i just cleared 20 odd emails 20 minutes ago...
 * hyperair weeps
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: are warnings after running lintian on binary deb ok?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: cowbuilder still creating..
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: pardon my slow machine.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: fine, I am having a question. Is it fine to have lintian warnings?
<Rhonda> no
<ScottK> It depends on the warning.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: well, if you know what the lintian warning is, and you have a good reason for not fixing the warnings, then you should override.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: see "man dh_lintian"
<hyperair> and mind, that's only *if* you know why the warning is there and have a good excuse (the excuse should be inserted as a comment into the lintian-override)
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: omg I have a lintian E (error). Its FSSTND-dir-in-usr . What is it? It is not documented on lintian page
<hyperair> lintian-info -t FSSwhatever
<Rhonda> lintian -i gives you extended informations
<hyperair> dir-in-usr.. judging from the tag name, do you have a new directory in /usr?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: what does dpkg -C blah.deb say?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: Looks like its an upstream problem. Will fix it.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: okay, what's the problem? out of curiosity.
<hyperair> seems to be a pedantic error?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: It DOES create a new directory in /usr
<hyperair> lol
<hyperair> why for?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: now I have to make the change in orig as well
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: release a new tarball and use that as your new .orig
<hyperair> naturally, you should also bump the version
<hyperair> the upstraem version i mean
<hyperair> add a .1
<hyperair> or something like that
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: This app was developed by Michael Lamothe, maker of me-tv, on Anjuta. Looks like the problem is with the Anjuta IDE
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: is it important?
<hyperair> lemme seee.... once i get pbuilder working
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: ok I think its fine now
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: beginning to upload
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: uploaded. should be available soon
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: see it now.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: did you change the tarball version?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: no
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: you should have. also did you fix the lintian warnings on the binaries?
<hyperair> W: gnome-media-player: extra-license-file usr/doc/gnome-media-player/COPYING
<hyperair> W: gnome-media-player: wrong-name-for-upstream-changelog usr/share/doc/gnome-media-player/ChangeLog
<bilalakhtar> just a min
<jcfp> bilalakhtar: you are installing NEWS and README files via debian/docs, but both are empty
<guidoi> hi there
<bilalakhtar> jcfp: Can I remove these files?
<guidoi> i need some advice regarding a kinda-resolved bug
<guidoi> i don't know how to proceed
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: solving the warnings
<guidoi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/207065
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207065 in compiz "Bad Compiz Bindings Bug" [Low,Triaged]
<guidoi> I've posted a working patch,
<guidoi> and today it was commited upstream
<guidoi> so the next release of compiz will include the fix
<guidoi> but as of the package in lucid repos, the bug is still there, and the patch is therefore still useful
<guidoi> how should this affect the status of the bug?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: do I need to put a debian/source/format ?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: yes.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: ok
<hyperair> you should put "3.0 (quilt)" unless you have a reason to continue using the current format
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: thanks
<sebner> hyperair++
<hyperair> it's a sebner!
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: should I build-depend on quilt?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: no.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: the whole point of "3.0 (quilt)" is to not have to make any patch-system related changes to packaging
<hyperair> well, one of the points.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: done. uploading now , again
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: no warnings!
<hyperair> \o/
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: by the way, in the future, you should never re-release a tarball of the same version once it has been released once.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: I agree. Since I am one of the upstream developers, I shall fix this problem in the development branch also.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: check it out. up on revu
<jcfp> bilalakhtar: empty files aren't much use as docs, so unless they magically get filled in during build, don't install those.
<bilalakhtar> jcfp: removed them from the doc file.
<jcfp> also, your diff has changes outside the debian dir: gnome-media-player-0.1.2/Makefile.am
<bilalakhtar> jcfp: Sorry, didn't note them!
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: abort, will have to re-upload
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: okay.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: if you have changes outside the debian dir, please use a patch system (with "3.0 (quilt)", you can just use a quilt-styled patch + quilt-styled series file in debian/patches with no further changes)
<hyperair> huh Makefile.am disappeared.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: what happened to the Makefile.am from the upstream tarball?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: Its not required in the debian package, so no need to have it in that place, right?
<hyperair> rule of thumb: never repackage the tarball if not necessary.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: well, in the upstream tar, i don't think its there. I just added it manually, to generate makefile.in, forgot to remove later
<hyperair> question. where's this Makefile.in now?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: Its there
<hyperair> 8e8f6b966b93880f150b304d937c3f33  gnome-media-player-0.1.2.tar.gz
<hyperair> 676db492be4e9b61130adc49e5b1f21f  ../gnome-media-player_0.1.2.orig.tar.gz
<hyperair> please use the upstream tarball.
<hyperair> if there are changes to be made, please use a patch system.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: should I re-generate changes from upstream tar?
<bilalakhtar> fine
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: use a patch system.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: specifically, use quilt.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: done
<bilalakhtar> uploading
<bilalakhtar> These things make me think how stable Ubuntu is intended to be :)
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: check it now. up on revu (again)
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: i mentioned something about a patch system, did you read/
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: I used the upstream tar as the orig, so it was a patch sys for me
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: do you have files in your debian/patches
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: yes, of course
<hyperair> what are they?
<jcfp> bilalakhtar: I: gnome-media-player source: quilt-patch-missing-description debian-changes-0.1.2-0ubuntu1
<hyperair> debian-changes-somethingorother?
<hyperair> yeah, that
<hyperair> another thing, your patch.. touches Makefile.in, but not Makefile.am
<hyperair> please make changes to both Makefile.am and Makefile.in at the same time
<hyperair> in the same patch, i mean
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: becoz makefile.am is not in the upstream tar
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: it is.
<hyperair> $ tar -tzf gnome-media-player_0.1.2.orig.tar.gz  | grep Makefile.am
<hyperair> gnome-media-player-0.1.2/Makefile.am
<bilalakhtar> bump
<bilalakhtar> done
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: uploaded. should be available soon
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: sorry for truobling you for silly reasons :|
<hyperair> np
<hyperair> it's part of the learning process
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: yes, this is the first package I am getting into universe. I also want liboauth and python-tweepy to get into universe. should prepaer source for them soon
<hyperair> =)
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: i'd actually advise you to try getting packages into Debian as well.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: you can see the package on revu now. up
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: the best way is to get them into Debian, then file sync requests to bring them into Ubuntu
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: there's still the issue about your debian-changes-NNNN patch. could you rename it, and give it a proper description for the patch does, please?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/ <-- see this for a guideline on how to write patch headers
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: renaming means just rename the file? i think one needs to specify the new name somewhere else also
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: yes, in debian/patches/series.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: thanks
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: you can actually just do something like "QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches quilt rename -P debian-changes-0.1.2-0ubuntu1 some-other-name.patch
<hyperair> then to change the header you can just do "quilt header -e"
<hyperair> assuming you've configured the EDITOR environment variable properly
<hyperair> and QUILT_PATCHES also
<hyperair> or you can just edit it and change the top
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: uploading. sorry for the delay
<hyperair> np
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: libgstreamermm-0.10-dev is not in debian unstable, only in experimental. the other build dependencies seem to be available in unstable. you could ask its maintainer if he indends to upload it into debian unstable and also file an "itp bug" against the debian bug tracking system.
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: I shall think about debian later
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: uploaded. should be available soon
<hyperair> cool, gstreamer has gotten an mm
<carstenh> ok, how you like. you did already most of the work, getting it into debian shouldn't be a problem anymore
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: is libgstreamer-0.10-dev there in debian stable?
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: no, only in experimental
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: available on revu now
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: getting a package into debian is slightly harder than getting it into ubuntu, but once you've gotten it into debian, it's very easy to get it into ubuntu (just file sync request and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors then someone will come and sync it along)
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: thanks for the info
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: I am going the opposite way
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: and that's the hardest =p
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: first ubuntu, then debian
<carstenh> bilalakhtar: there is stable, testing and unstable and additionally single, often experimental (hence the name) packages that are not considered to be stable enough for unstable are uploaded to experimental
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: ah sorry, i didn't notice this before, but g++ shouldn't be in the build-dep, it's already installed afaik.
<hyperair> minor issue though
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: so should I remove and re-upload?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: ok re-uploading
<hyperair> yeah
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: debian/docs is an empty file, please remove
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: told in the nick of time
<hyperair> heheh
<carstenh> do people still recommend cdbs to people learning packaging?
<hyperair> carstenh: some do, some don't.
<hyperair> carstenh: i don't, personally.
<hyperair> dh7 ftw
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: I use cdbs to make my rules file look good
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: dh7 makes your rules file look even better
<hyperair> %:
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: uploaded and available on revu
<hyperair> <tab>dh $@
<carstenh> dh7 needs only one line (if you use ";")
<hyperair> carstenh: heh, yes that's right
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: did you do a test build?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: or you are going to begin one?
<hyperair> see /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny for DH7
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: going to begin one.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: any more packaging errors? ready for test build?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: building.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: thanks a lot. I don't know how much I can thank
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: no, don't thank me. i should be thanking you for your contribution to ubuntu =)
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: I held you for 2 hours. you must be bored of telling me errors in the package :)
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: i'm a flexible multitasker ;-)
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: you didn't realize what i was doing in the background
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: ohk
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: well, so, how far has the build gone?
<hyperair> dpkg is still installing build-deps
<hyperair> my notebook sucks with i/o
<hyperair> and i've ioniced it to keep my machine usable while building
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: I think using pbuilder, cowbuilder, etc reuires a fast internet connection
<bilalakhtar> right
<bilalakhtar> ?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: yes it does, but only once.
<hyperair> i mean the .debs are cached
<bilalakhtar> good
<hyperair> the next round will just use those cached debs
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: either way, the download only takes a few seconds/minutes for me, since i live on the same network as the nearest ubuntu mirror ;-)
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: lucky
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: yeah, i agree ;-) especially when i maintain that mirror =p
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: it doesn't build.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: which country? I am in saudi arabia (yes)
<hyperair> No package 'gstreamer-interfaces-0.10' found
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: what?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: i'm in singapore, the mirror i maintain is "linux.ntuoss.org"
<hyperair> weird, it built earlier
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: you removed libgstreamermm!
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: 'coz it was not needed. I later realiosed the app didn;t use mm, it used the plain one
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: re-upload
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: but configure.ac looks for mm, so you'll have to change it
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: didn';t think of that, fine, re-uploading
<hyperair> =)
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: uplaoded
<bilalakhtar> sorry
<hyperair> np
<bilalakhtar> you are very patient
<bilalakhtar> up on revu
<hyperair> well i've finished exams, so i've got all the time in the world
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: you are a high-school student or a college student?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: I am a high-school student
<hyperair> university student =)
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: lucky :) My exams are coming close . The indian system of education is damn tough
<bilalakhtar> I am an indian, in case you might ask
<hyperair> =O
<hyperair> i'm chinese.
<bilalakhtar> oh
<hyperair> your name sounded very arabic
<bilalakhtar> I am an indian living in saudi arabia. There are many foreign nationals living here. My name might sound arabic, but I am an indian :)
<hyperair> ah, that makes sense =)
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: began build?
<hyperair> wait wait
 * hyperair re-dgets
<hyperair> weird, i keep getting the old one?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: old one?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: did you change configure.ac?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: nope
<hyperair> then how did you fix the build error?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: just changed control back to mm version
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: I realised the app did use the mm version for some features
<hyperair> heh okay
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: worked?
<hyperair> rebuilding
<bilalakhtar> ok
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: looks like I have to go off to sleep. late night here. did it work?
<hyperair> still building
<hyperair> well chances are it'll work. if it does i'll give you an advocate
<hyperair> =)
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: ok, and if it doesn't, comment. thanks a lot
<bilalakhtar> shall leave now
<hyperair> np =)
<hyperair> good night
<ari-tczew> when maverick will be open for uploads?
<ScottK> When they are done getting the toolchain in place.
<ScottK> Proabably ~a week.
<ari-tczew> ok
<ari-tczew> In ~a week include other changes like rearm MoM, pbuilder, ubuntu-dev-tools etc. ?
<ScottK> IIRC MoM is already done.  The other things should be done already (and in Lucid)
<ajmitch> no doubt we'll be encouraged to use bzr branches to do the merges rather than use MoM's supplied package
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> I wonder if requestsync shouldn't fall back to using rmadison in case the LP Debian import is out of date
<ari-tczew> is there any tool like grab-merge but based on bzr branches?
<Laney> that would be an exceedingly simple shell script
<Laney> you could write it :)
<ari-tczew> wait... using bzr in merge? how? what about debian?
<Laney> LP has had Debian imports for a while now
<ajmitch> bzr merge-package lp:debian/sid/package
<ajmitch> or something like that
<Laney> yep
<ari-tczew> mhm, interesting
<ajmitch> I think that requires bzr-builddeb
<ScottK> Laney: "Fall back to rmadison"?  Arghhh.  I guess it's been improved again.
<ajmitch> Laney: or the debian import stuff should just be fixed :)
<Laney> ScottK: I believe it's been like this for a while
<Laney> ajmitch: It's somewhat systemic
<ajmitch> Laney: I know, I filed a bug about it
<ajmitch> bug 568745 if you want to poke it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568745 in soyuz "Debian unstable record of gpt missing" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568745
<Laney> I just pushed a fix to that effect to udt trunk
<Laney> however I suspect it isn't idiomatic python so please review
<Laney> ajmitch: I've filed a few such bugs in the past :)
<ajmitch> Laney: I'm not surprised :)
<Laney> which leads me to think that working around is not a bad idea for now
<Laney> maybe requestsync should spit out a warning
<ajmitch> have you done a workaround?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> check udt trunk
<ajmitch> looks like an easy change, I should have realised there'd be the interface to rmadison there already
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-04
<LaserJock> when's UDS?
<mathiaz> LaserJock: next week
<LaserJock> mathiaz: ah, thanks
<mathiaz> LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M
<imbrandon> LaserJock: !!
<crimsun> imbrandon: got a sec for query?
<imbrandon> crimsun: sure
<LaserJock> imbrandon: dude!!!
<LaserJock> you're alive! ;-)
<imbrandon> heh yea, been back in the swing for a bit now
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> where's bddebian, that'd be about right
<ajmitch> getting all the old people in one place?
 * LaserJock pops his teeth out to scare the little kids
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i havent seen bddebian in quite a while
<imbrandon> LaserJock: tried lucid yet ?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, been running it since Alpha 2 or so
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> seen ya pop by my blog a while back, i was like, man where is he
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> heck, I even threw some code in to UNE
<imbrandon> sweet
<imbrandon> ive resigned myself to become a DD this summer, even if it kills me
<imbrandon> i've put it off far too long
<LaserJock> I've been busy putting my PhD to use
<LaserJock> I get to play rocket scientist these days
<imbrandon> get a nice gig somewhere? last i talked to you  , you were still in school
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm in Boston now, of all places
<imbrandon> ahh nice, lol, i interview with a company in vegas last week, not sure i wanna move back to NV though
<LaserJock> I'm a contractor with the Air Force
<imbrandon> oh sweet
<LaserJock> in the "space" part
<LaserJock> so it's kinda weird
<LaserJock> I went from nanotechnology to space
<imbrandon> yea but space is fun ( imho )
<LaserJock> I had 2 job offers, on in KS and one in Boston
<imbrandon> if i had a chance to do it all over i would probably do something involving commercial space
<LaserJock> I would like to get out Kansas way or mid west or something
<imbrandon> KS really ? wth is out here in KS
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> well, you do have a couple universities out there
<imbrandon> i like it here, but everything is so spread out
<LaserJock> the one I was looking at was Kansas State, I'd like to be closer to Kansas City though
<imbrandon> lol tell me about it, i got one nephew at Missouri Uni and one at Kansas Uni, talk about rivalry
<LaserJock> yeah, well, here in New England you can't get any elbow room at all
<imbrandon> k state has some campusus here
<LaserJock> it is kinda cool having MIT and Harvard, etc. here
<imbrandon> and ku has all the med scholl campuses here, and then there us umkc ( uni missouri kc branch )
<imbrandon> school*
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> and like a metric ton of community coll
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> i think there is something like 15 in the area
<LaserJock> they have community colleges like starbucks here
<imbrandon> yup
<LaserJock> yeah? that's quite a few
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> I live out in the 'burbs
<imbrandon> most of them are affiliated with jccc ( johnson count community college ) somehow or another, johnson county is the Ks part of KC, jackson co being the Mo side
<LaserJock> I think I pass like at least 7 unis that I know of just to get in to downtown Boston
<imbrandon> s/count/sounty
<imbrandon> lol nice
<LaserJock> but I swear they have to compensate for all the "brain power" here
<imbrandon> i lived up in providence for a short time arround ~2001, worked in boston, was fun, but i had to get out, tooooooo cold
<LaserJock> some people are quite bright, some are ... not so much
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> they don't know how to drive, that's for sure
<imbrandon> hahahah yea, i dident bother driving when i was there, t train all the way baby ;)
<LaserJock> yeah, doing a train is a new thing for me
<imbrandon> thats one thing i love about the coasts , useable mass transit
<imbrandon> sucks here
 * persia remembers old Boston statistics: 52 colleges/universities, with ~3% of the population being a freshman each year.
<imbrandon> i absolutely hate to drive
<imbrandon> unless its for a joyride on my motorcycle
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, and that's 3% of a rather big number, IMO
<LaserJock> not so much for you I suppose ;-)
<persia> ~7M or so.
<LaserJock> it's beautiful here, I gotta give them that
<LaserJock> if it weren't for all the people it'd be a pretty darn good place to live ;-)
<imbrandon> yea it seemed really nice, form what i saw of it, i actualy wouldent even call what i did "live" there, was more like an extended stay ( was there just under 3 months )
<imbrandon> just tooo damn cold lol
<LaserJock> I love the winter here
<LaserJock> it's a bit chilly at times (apparently this winter was real mild) but all the snow is great
<imbrandon> heh i'm a fun in the sun guy, i'd rather it be 98% humid and 104F every day than drop below ~45F ever
<LaserJock> yuck
<imbrandon> yea i need to be in southern CA or NV or AZ
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> gimme -20F over 98% humidity and > 80F any day
<LaserJock> as long as cars still work I'm all good
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> you can always put more on, you can only take so much off :-)
<LaserJock> and computers make great little heaters
<LaserJock> that's my theory anyway
<LaserJock> imbrandon: so what have you been working on with Ubuntu?
<imbrandon> hehe one sec got a semi important /query going , gimme ~2 min
<imbrandon> back
<imbrandon> well not a ton yet, i got "back" late in the cycle, so moslty so far been sponsoring others last minute fixes for lucid
<imbrandon> and catching back up on policys
<imbrandon> touched a few backports and been working today to bring the ubuntuone* stack to debian proper
<LaserJock> working mostly in MOTU or Kubuntu or?
<imbrandon> mostly MOTU and core, not a lot K* yet this time
<imbrandon> well other than general testing
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i think i have resigned to use the gnome desktop with a few kde and qt apps
<LaserJock> holy cow!
<LaserJock> you've gone to the dark side
<imbrandon> i still have KDE4 Lucid on one of my desktops , but i just cant bring my self to the KDE way with kde4
<imbrandon> desktopwise anyhow
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> the "gadgets" get on my nerves, if i could make it feel like 3 or a more traditional desktop i'd be more at home
<imbrandon> but some of the functionality like KIO-slaves are great, cant give those up :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> the plasmoids are kinda annoying
<LaserJock> like I like the functionality of some of them
<LaserJock> but the appearing/disappearing UI controls get on my nerves
<imbrandon> you know if one had the time and manpower ( guess that means $$ ) a new deesktop based on qt/kde libs but made to look/function like gnome 2.X would be awesom
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> the backend for kde is soooooooo much better and easier to work with, but the kde4.x implmentation of it i just cant grok
<LaserJock> mhm, it's weird how that works
<imbrandon> soo i'm kinda like the man in the middle :)
<LaserJock> well, that's not so bad of a place to be necessarily
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> atleaste i can make sure kde apps play nice on other desktops
<imbrandon> and i play arround with kde native on OSX still alot
<imbrandon> thats alot of fun
<LaserJock> does RangerRick still do that?
<LaserJock> I think that was his nick
<imbrandon> i've been meaning to try the same thing on windows ( kde native ) but its really low on my TODO
<imbrandon> yea RangerRick is still the major driving force behind it and the fink port
<imbrandon> but its picked up quite a few others too
<imbrandon> its really in a "maintance" mode now as 99.9% of the needed patches for kde native on osx have ben applied upstream, so its just a mater of checkout;./configure;make;make install
<ajmitch> & wait a few hours
<imbrandon> for _most_ of the stuff
<imbrandon> lol yea
<imbrandon> on my mac mini it take about 3 hours for the base system to compile, but the mini is a intel core solo 1.83ghz with 1gb ram
<imbrandon> so its not a beast :)
<LaserJock> gosh, I remember doing that in Gentoo
<LaserJock> seemed like every time I got done they'd push a new KDE version
<imbrandon> hahaha emerge world
<imbrandon> *wait 3 days*
<LaserJock> I just started grad school
<imbrandon> ohhh a login screen
<LaserJock> and my advisor would come in and ask about something
<LaserJock> and I'd need some package so I'd have to wait for my emerge to finish
<LaserJock> that's actually the primary reason I ended up with Ubuntu
<imbrandon> hehe i rember you telling me that way back when
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I used to have a script to rebuilt kdelibs/base from cvs each night
<imbrandon> ouch
<LaserJock> and it'd get done each night?
<LaserJock> :-)
<ajmitch> yeah
<imbrandon> just base and libs isnt toooooooo much
<ajmitch> this was maybe 9 years ago :)
<imbrandon> only takes about ~30-40 min now iirc on a decent build box
<LaserJock> I was too impatient
<LaserJock> I don't think I every installed from a stage1 tarball
<imbrandon> i'd hate to work on someonthing like oo.o upstream
<imbrandon> that has got to be a nightmare
<LaserJock> oh man
<LaserJock> for Lucid they were rebuilding for the branding changes
<LaserJock> one stupid graphic and they had to rebuild the whole thing :(
<imbrandon> wow, broken design
<LaserJock> well, who knew they'd need to change it :p
<ajmitch> there's a whole day gone
<LaserJock> oracle really could use a better logo though, yuck
<imbrandon> yea, honestly i think we should quarenten oo.o to its own buildd
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i ahvent looked at it
<imbrandon> still havent wrapped my head arround them buying sun
<imbrandon> i was wondering the other day what that ment for stuff like opensolaris and ian murdoch and stuff
<LaserJock> seems like it's not the end of the world, but it's not just same old thing either
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> I'd guess it'll take 'em a while to shake things out
<imbrandon> ohhh syncing works now ... woot
<LaserJock> I know somebody here who works for Sun here in Boston, they're working on a 2nd career just in case
<imbrandon> ajmitch: they must have fixed the backend, syncing is actualy working on my sqeeze box
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i would imagine
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'd hope so, it's really not that different from lucid :)
<LaserJock> it's things like that that make me think perhaps being a poor chemist isn't so bad after all
<imbrandon> heheh yea but it was broke for hours today
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hehehe
<LaserJock> I saw Canonical was hiring a bug person for here in Lexington
<LaserJock> I dive by there on my way to work every day
<ajmitch> tempted?
<LaserJock> oh, sorta
<imbrandon> LaserJock: so do you get to work with any of the current space stuff ? a guy in my Warcraft guild ( shhhhhhh ) works for NASA in the control center room thingie, kinda cool
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> well, I can't tell you exactly what I work on of course (sucks) but it's space, DoD, etc.
<imbrandon> heheh understood
<imbrandon> yea he can never say exactly either, but he sends pics once in a while of the stuff he can
<imbrandon> lemme see if i can dig one up ...
<LaserJock> I work on space vehicles though, or rather the basic chemistry aspect
<LaserJock> no engineering or anything
<Yagisan> cool
<LaserJock> Battlespace vehicles, what a nerdy name
 * Yagisan reads space based weapons delivery platforms instead of space vehicles
<ajmitch> Yagisan: that's the part he can't tell you about :)
<LaserJock> well, it ain't NASA
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> but it's nifty, space is quite different for us chemists
<Yagisan> I knew it - he's working on what will eventually become skynet
<LaserJock> usually we use a space-like environment (vacuum) to simulate stuff on earth
<LaserJock> but now we have a similar environment, but the chemistry is completely different
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ahh i found the last one, i have some more somwhere http://i42.tinypic.com/oizreq.jpg
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> ever nerdy kids dream
<LaserJock> *every
<imbrandon> exactly
<imbrandon> we give him hell on vent all the time about going to mars and other stupid stuff
<LaserJock> man, I used to go through the pre-launch flight procedures in my living room in a tipped over recliner
<LaserJock> a loooong time ago
<imbrandon> he calls the place he works "MCC" no idea what it means though
<LaserJock> mission control center
<imbrandon> lol, that would be it , hahaha
<ajmitch> nothing important or anything
<ajmitch> but the question to ask - does he run ubuntu at work?
<imbrandon> lol no, i was only one of two in my guild that ran linux of any kind
<Yagisan> those pics look similar to debian
<LaserJock> dude, the physicists across the hall do
<imbrandon> actualy at work they might run some linux, i'll have to ask
<LaserJock> I was in their lab getting a tour and I saw it up on a giant TV screen
<imbrandon> neer occured to me to ask actualy , lol
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's good :)
<imbrandon> never*
<LaserJock> I was like "hmm, that brown looks a little familiar"
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> now what am I going to do?
<LaserJock> purple everywhere, so confusing ;-)
<imbrandon> LOL
 * imbrandon uses a "blue" theme
 * Yagisan uses a theme known as maximised xterms
<Yagisan> isn't that the point of a gui - to run many more xterms ?
<imbrandon> lol, yea i dunno why i bother, 99% of the time i live in  a maximied term with tons of screen sessions
 * ajmitch doesn't usually maximise stuff, except for maybe on the laptop
<imbrandon> honestly i think i'd be ok if chrome worked without X via framebuffer or someting and the rest justa  term
<LaserJock> I just have a netbook these days
<ajmitch> a couple of 22" LCDs at work, having a terminal maximised would be overkill
<Yagisan> I've got Kubuntu on the eeepc, which is nice, Xubuntu on this box, but they only ever seem to run xterm, xchat, and vlc/mplayer
<LaserJock> so I don't see much theming
<imbrandon> true
<Yagisan> LaserJock, which one ? I've been using the eeepc 1000h as my main system for about a year now
<LaserJock> I have an Acer Aspire One
<LaserJock> picked it up around Thanksgiving
<Yagisan> although I found the "netbook" spins to be unusable for myself
<imbrandon> the main box i've been using the last couple months is an _old_ 1.5ghz celeron with a gig of ram and an IDE 5400 rpm hdd that wont boot off of USB
<Yagisan> mine was a retrenchment gift to myself
<LaserJock> uh, last November (to be more international)
<imbrandon> makes for a good beater laptop though
<LaserJock> I love UNE
<LaserJock> it works really well with how I use a computer
<LaserJock> 1 desktop, 1 app/window at a time
<LaserJock> I've been simplifying my computing experience :-)
<Yagisan> ah - yeah - I have multiple up and running
<LaserJock> but I'm not a professional
 * ajmitch hasn't been simplifying very well
<imbrandon> yea i have had a few of the 10.1 in dell mini's and love em, just never seem to keep em long renenough
 * Yagisan sobs no one wants to hire me
<imbrandon> but they are tiny, but just big enough to type comfy on
<LaserJock> my wife's laptop died suddenly (started smoking), I gave her mine and went to Walmart and got the cheapest thing they had
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> turns out I really like the netboook thing
<LaserJock> I wish I had a server though
<Yagisan> the battery life is nice - wish the gma950 had more grunt
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> LaserJock: need access to one ? i got a linode i can give ya an account on if ya need
<imbrandon> its not beefy but should be ok for just about anything ya need
<Yagisan> what sort of server LaserJock ?
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> well, the two things that I don't get from a netbook are 24x7 connectivity (IRC for instance) and the ability to build packages reasonably
 * Yagisan has a karmic box here that exists to run xchat, dhcp, bind, samba and lots and lots of kvm sessions
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> I don't know that I'm in desperate need at this point, but it's the one thing I miss having only 2 laptops
 * ajmitch builds packages on the laptop, but irssi runs on a linode
<LaserJock> none of my desktop machines made the move to Boston
<imbrandon> yea i use my linode for basic webserver for things i dont host on google app engine , and irssi
<Yagisan> you can pick up a cheap multicore white-box pc - add a ups, configure mdadm for raid or lvm mirroring, and suddenly, mini-server
<imbrandon> dunno if it would be that good to build packages though
 * Yagisan is doing the lvm setup himself
<Yagisan> got a awesome phenom II x3 chip - 4th core unlocked stable :D
<Yagisan> very happy about that
<imbrandon> eww amd, i mean gl with that ;)
<imbrandon> lol j/.k
<Yagisan> it was best price/performance
<jdong> imbrandon: lol I had to deal with an AMD box the other day not booting Linux to initramfs.
<jdong> nice looking panics
<imbrandon> :)
 * Yagisan isn't a fanboy - i want the best I can get for my limited $$$
<Yagisan> remember cyrix ?
<imbrandon> yup
<jdong> imbrandon: funniest was the stack trace went off the screen
<Yagisan> I still have my 6x86 cyrix chip here
<Yagisan> that was my first server
<jdong> imbrandon: and AMD decides that VESA vga=xxx modes are "deprecated" for their IGP's :)
<imbrandon> i rember the almost x86 chips that overheated and gave me tons of headaches
<Yagisan> glorified 486 that was
<imbrandon> Yagisan: i agree as far as proformace for $$ but i factor in one more thing, headache, and intel almost always seems to win
<jdong> imbrandon: yes and it's performance for the $$, never performance per $$
<jdong> gett
<imbrandon> i ran amd chips for years and cyrix before that even though they had so many incompatibilties , but in the end its worth having the intel for the leaste amount of headaches
<imbrandon> imho
<jdong> they're not done with being incompatible yet
<imbrandon> i mean hell the i3 dual cores are only like $56 bux right now or something ;)
<jdong> imbrandon: yes but the mobo costs a lot
<Yagisan> I can't say I've had compatibility issues in the last 15 years I've been building boxes
<jdong> imbrandon: I've got a friend who assembles entire AMD systems, ready to boot, sub-$300
<jdong> imbrandon: and that's something that's impossible to do with Intel hardware
<imbrandon> wow , i woudlent even consider that
<jdong> so I'll give AMD that.
<jdong> but personally I'd rather get up to the $500 mark and build a decent Intel box
<imbrandon> exactly
<Yagisan> but that's not to say some manufacturers didn't over-promise on their hardware (cyrix - I'm looking at you)
<imbrandon> lol
<jdong> Yagisan: I just had my latest set of AMD headaches a month ago. CLFLUSH gives invalid opcode on entirely valid incantations...
<jdong> Yagisan: which yields FreeBSD Xen guests panicking on boot whenever they'd rotate to AMD hardware
<Yagisan> jdong, which cpu ?
<jdong> Yagisan: Opteron quad 2.4GHz
<jdong> 2xxx series?
<Yagisan> intel has a sweet microcode update system that amd lacks
<Yagisan> I got burned with a first gen amd64 box (like those opertrons you mention)
<Yagisan> works fine with 32bit virtual guests, but can't do 64bit
<imbrandon> yea all in all AMD's arent terrible, and i ran quite a few of them over the years, i just feel like the old man that buys the caddy because the caddy works and the man will come fix it if it dosent type mentality anymore
 * ajmitch has an amd chip at home
<jdong> no they've got okay chips, but Intel never ceases to amaze me with their advances.
<imbrandon> they do have their place, but with intel i dont have to worry if when i boot/compile something if its the cpu's fault or the code
<imbrandon> etc
<jdong> lol a joke from a performance engineering course last term
<jdong> they switched the cluster to Nehalem cores
<Yagisan> I have 3 intel systems here, and 3 amd systems - the microcode updates on the intels are the main advantage i see
<jdong> and their slow vs fast code examples ended up running at the same speeds
<jdong> it was a parallel workload cache line sharing contention "example"
<Yagisan> all intel are 32bit chips ...
<jdong> but silly Nehalem was smart enough to do the necessary reordering in hardware.
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     E7400  @ 2.80GHz
<ajmitch> that one *without* virtualisation stuff, afaik
<ajmitch> so annoying
<Yagisan> :/
<imbrandon> i cant wait to get my grubby fingers on a dual quad i7 setup , hopefully by the end of the summer, packed into a 27inch imac
<jdong> Yagisan: I see some *major* performance differences between Intel and AMD hardware when running "real world" (read: poorly written) code
<ajmitch> laptop is T9600, virtualbox is useful here :)
<jdong> Yagisan: primarily code that's poorly written because of crappy memory access patterns, Intel blows right through them
<Yagisan> jdong, how old is this code ? like Win NT that won't even start on a pentium 4 or later bad ?
<jdong> Yagisan: not old code, new code but just poorly written real world code.
<jdong> Yagisan: e.g. try running comething complex in python or multicore computational code written by a code monkey.
<jdong> Yagisan: stuff that's not ffmpeg or fftw which have been optimized by real performance engineers (tm) to be processor-friendly
 * Yagisan puts away the x264 example he had ...
<jdong> Yagisan: for code like that, you'll find that Intels tend to deal with the code and run it a lot faster than AMD cores.
<Yagisan> I find the two companies plat leapfrog - at any one time one of them is the best - then we get a new chip
<Yagisan> s/plat/play
<imbrandon> not really, marketring makes it seem that way, but intel is RARELY ever on the bottom half
<Yagisan> of course - when I'm spending my money - I'm wanting the best overall performance I can
 * Yagisan did at one stage flog these systems off to customers - I did see this for myself
<imbrandon> the last time i rember intel being on the bottom half of the leapfrog was the frist 4 to 6 months the x86_64 first gen chips hit the market
<jdong> Yagisan: except AMD isn't leapfrogging on the CPU front anymore, they're just putting better GPU's on die and offering it at a cheaper price.
<jdong> Yagisan: ever since Intel came out with the Core 2 architecture AMD has lost the performance, performance-per-dollar and performance-per-watt game
<jdong> they've managed to keep alive with "minimal dollar to reach some performance level"
<Yagisan> they are competitive in overall system performance
<Yagisan> besides - whoever burns the smallest hole in my wallet for what I want to do is clearly the leader for me
<lifeless> so, atom then ? :)
<jdong> lifeless: hahahaha minimal dollar to put something that plausibly runs x86 on a die.
<Yagisan> well - that is my day to day pc actually
<imbrandon> Yagisan: heh thats the same thing ppl say about apple being "expensive" because they dontr have a $300 machine, but if you take their $1100 laptop and go part for part with dell its virtually the same price ;)
<Yagisan> but dell is expensive ...
<jdong> imbrandon: yeah the counterargument you usually get is there's no motivation for the Dell owner to go part for part.
<imbrandon> but you dont hear that mostly, you hear apple is ;)
<jdong> imbrandon: e.g. I'm sure Grandma is fine with an Atom once we get rid of OpenOffice and Firefox ;-)
 * Yagisan wanted a mac when they used powerpc chips - because I wanted a big-endian dev box
<imbrandon> jdong: lol i konw, but it irks me when ppl use hat arguement, its like if you dont like apple for whatever reason cool, but umm  prices is moot
<Yagisan> hey - OO.o and firefox work well on my atom - perhaps would work better with atom tuning (small chace etc)
<jdong> imbrandon: oh likewise. Not to mention it doens't factor in the cost of the attention to detail with the hardware.
<Yagisan> gah - I can't type today
<jdong> imbrandon: I mean I'm sure I can make an argument of why my $30,000 car is superior to the BMW 7-series too based on spec sheet :)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> ok i got to get some food in me, back in ~10-15 min
<Yagisan> being married has caused me to understand what is truly important in a pc now - and it's not cpu speed
<Yagisan> it's how noisy it is - because if it sounds like all I need to do is strap on some wings for it to take off - the wife will turn it off
 * Yagisan wanders off to watch the bourne identity
<arand> Hmm, looking at plymouth, lucid, if I simply do "apt-get source && dch -i && debuild -S && debdiff" the diff comes out as huge. How can I work around this?
<arand> http://pastebin.com/vaUyFkcX   the diff is 10883 lines!  my only change was the changelog!
<imbrandon> arand: it diffs against the orig, sooo there must be changes without patches in plymouth
<imbrandon> is my guess
<imbrandon> arand: yup, look at plymouth-0.8.2/debian/patches/debian-changes
<arand> imbrandon: My aim is to get a neat debdiff.. is there some special fu that would allow me to do this?
<imbrandon> filterdiff
<imbrandon> filter the thing you dont want
<arand> imbrandon: Thanks! Yet one of those things I had no idea existed :)
<carneades> hi, i'm a little confused. I specify default-jre as a dependency in my deb, but when i attempt to install it on a java-less machine it says it can't because default-jre is a dependency and not installed. I then have to run apt-get -f to make it install default-jre. Why isn't the package manager installing default-jre itself?
<slytherin> carneades: How did you try to install your package?
<RAOF> carneades: Because dpkg only enforces the dependencies, there's a lot of the package management that it doesn't do - such as how to get other packages.  apt knows all that extra stuff.
<carneades> i used dpkg -i
<slytherin> Ideally you should use gdebi when installing single package. It will fetch and install necessary dependencies.
<carneades> oh i see
<carneades> i'll give that a whirl
<carneades> while i'm at it, i'm confused as to whether i should specify default-jre or java5-runtime, or openjdk* as the dependency
<carneades> in 9.10 this is more of an issue because there is sun java and openjdk, in 10.04 things are simpler in terms of openjdk being the only big option, but way more complicated in terms of package layout
<slytherin> carneades: default-jre is just a meta package that points to default runtime for that architecture (OpenJDK for all arch since karmic). java5-runtime is a virtual packages. Almost all JREs provide it (openjdk, gij, sun etc).
<carneades> so i should specify java5-runtime if i don't care which they're using?
<slytherin> carneades: An OR dependency 'default-jre | java5-runtime' is more appropriate.
<carneades> oh interesting, why is that?
<imbrandon> because i may have java6 installed ;)
<imbrandon> and that would be my default, rather than pulling in 5 unnneededly
<carneades> ohh i see
<slytherin> carneades: That means 'we prefer default jre as dependency or any other package that provides java5-runtime'.
<carneades> okay thank you all for your help
<slytherin> So user will be able to use the package with Sun JRE. Otherwise your package woould have forced the install of default-jre.
<carneades> right that's exactly what i want, not to pull in a redundant jre for no reason
<carneades> but now in 10.04 there's no way sun can even get in the package system right? it's not in the ubuntu repositories and sun doesn't provide a debian package either.
<carneades> oh wait actually it's in a partner repository i think
<slytherin> you answered yourself. :-)
<StevenK> *the* partner repo, actually
<carneades> fantastic i implemented your suggestions and it worked great
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: Thanks for the advocate.
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: np =)
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: now searching for the second person
<bilalakhtar> Can anyone please review my package? hyperair has already advocated it. its here http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnome-media-player
<bilalakhtar> the package is for maverick, not lucid
<dholbach> good morning
<bilalakhtar> Can anyone please review my package? hyperair has already advocated it. its here http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnome-media-player ? The package is for maverick
 * hyperair mumbles something along the lines of stop pinging me please
<mok0> Hm, gmail seems to be down
<mok0> Can anyone here log on?
<StevenK> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/gmail.com ? :-)
<hyperair> looks available for me
<mok0> Weird
<hyperair> is google chromium kicking shit in anyone else's face?
<hyperair> it keeps hanging on google results pages >_>
<hyperair> hmm now it stopped
<hyperair> weird
<dholbach> hyperair: you have a vocabulary!
<mok0> heh
<hyperair> dholbach: sure i do.
<mok0> hyperair: is your account https: enabled?
 * hyperair hides thesaurus
<dholbach> yeah, quite a vocabulary
<hyperair> mok0: yes it is.
<hyperair> dholbach: ^_^
<mok0> When I click "Sign on" I get a 404
<hyperair> mok0: don't all accounts use https by default?
<mok0> hyperair: it's something you choose in options
<hyperair> it auto-logins-and-redirects for me..
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> use imap!
<hyperair> so, i googled for "chromium hanging" and got something like "Alibaba.com provides chromium hanging, check chromium hanging products detail:"
<hyperair> =.="
<imbrandon> lulz
<mok0> "The webpage atÂ https://www.google.com/accounts/LoginÂ might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address."
<mok0> I doubt the latter is the case :-)
<hyperair> no, it works fine for me
<hyperair> i clicked on the link
<mok0> Hm, I'll just have to wait
<hyperair> or use imap ;-)
<mok0> hyperair: I am :-)
<hyperair> mok0: then why would you need the web interface?
<mok0> hyperair: But I needed to add an event to my calendar
<hyperair> aha
<hyperair> i see.
 * hyperair uses rainlendar
 * mok0 googles for rainlendar.... oh
<hyperair> together with the widget layer it's awesome =p
<slytherin> mok0: doesn't your mail calendar support google calendar
<bilalakhtar> mok0: Are you a motu?
<mok0> bilalakhtar: yes
<hyperair> oho predatorial sponsoree attacks
<hyperair> =p
<mok0> uh-oh
<hyperair> hehehehee
<mok0> revu?
<bilalakhtar> mok0: CAn you please review my package? hyperair has already advocated it. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnome-media-player
<mok0> yikes
<hyperair> heheh
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: lol
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: after all, this channel is meant for that. for something else,
<bilalakhtar> !ot
<ubottu> #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics. Thanks!
<slytherin> bilalakhtar: Don't be impatient. It is too early for maverick development. I am sure most people do not even have chroot for maverick.
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: k
 * hyperair had to create a maverick chroot myself
<mok0> bilalakhtar: I'll review it later today. Busy right now
<bilalakhtar> mok0: Fine, leave it. I will search for a reviewer some weeks later
<mok0> bilalakhtar: huh?
<slytherin> bilalakhtar: Also at this point (just 5 days since release) SRU has higher priority than new packages.
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: sru?
<mok0> stable release updates
<slytherin> bilalakhtar: Stable Release Updates
<slytherin> bug fixes for lucid
<mok0> slytherin: heh
<bilalakhtar> ubottu told me
<hyperair> !sru | bilalakhtar
<ubottu> bilalakhtar: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<hyperair> oh lol
<hyperair> can never beat a bot at speed >_>
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: I always !msgthebot whenever I see an abbreviation I don't know
<hyperair> cool =)
<bilalakhtar> thanks, people, shall leave
 * hyperair too
<bilalakhtar> jono: When will the new Ubuntu website come up?
<jono> hey bilalakhtar
<jono> bilalakhtar, not sure when it is planned
<bilalakhtar> jono: Whenever iit does, it will come, right? since the current website does not represent the new brand
<jono> bilalakhtar, it will at some point
<bilalakhtar> jono: thanks for the info. I think you are busy. should not disturb you more
<joaopinto> good morning
<Laney> ricotz: hi, where are you with the docky sru stuff? I have a bit more time today if you need some help
<ricotz> Laney, hello, think the best way is to propose the new stable release for sru, so no patched up version, when making the release and backporting bug fixes i really taken care this is a bug-fix-only release, i have packaged it in ppa:ricotz/docky
<Laney> do you have a link to the changelog?
<ricotz> Laney, the changelog is included in the tarball - NEWS file
<ricotz> Laney, http://wiki.go-docky.com/index.php?title=Changelog
<Laney> ta
<Laney> jdong: Would you, in principle, accept an SRU for this new upstream release: http://wiki.go-docky.com/index.php?title=Changelog ?
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: pbuilder doesn't cache debs. how do I force it to?
<hyperair> it does automatically
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: I have a problem with pbuilder. After running create, I run builod and specify dsc file.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: I get the error here :- http://paste.ubuntu.com/427495/
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: please see it
<hyperair> sorry no time
<hyperair> later
<slytherin> hyperair: By default pbuilder uses only 'main' component. you need to configure it to use universe as well in this case.
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: oh then fine
<ghostcube> anyone of the nvidia vdpau ppa here?
<cemc> ghostcube: I think I am... cool answer, huh? :)
<ghostcube> cemc: heh.. yeah a kind of
<cemc> ghostcube: but I'm at work right now and it's on the home desktop, so I can't verify anything right now
<cemc> wait just a sec
<ghostcube> cemc: i have a problem with the mplayer package from the ppa :)
<ghostcube> and i dont know if tis the mplayer package or the jackd package that are a bit buggy -.- so we can talk later if you want no problem
<cemc> ghostcube: aha. what problem? if I recall correctly I've installed mplayer from that, and it works, although I'm not using it that much
<ghostcube> if jackd is on at mplayer startup mplayer segfaults
<ghostcube> if mplayer is started and then i activate jackds the output works
<cemc> ghostcube: jackd?
<ghostcube> yes the sound deamon
<ghostcube> i can post a message later that mplayer gives me iam at work too :)
<ghostcube> no linux so far here
<ghostcube> mplayer works fine its just the problem with an runing jackd at startup o.O thats strange
<ghostcube> and in karmic all worked fine so its an lucid bug :D
<persia> ghostcube: Please file a bug: I'd like to see a retrace of that.
<persia> Also, is it possible to reproduce with the non-PPA version?
<ghostcube> persia: need to try the non ppa version havent got the time at this day
<ghostcube> but will test the medibuntu version
<ghostcube> and sure i can file a bug report for this :)
<persia> Please do test the standard version: I'm not able to fix the medibuntu or PPA versions, but I'm concerned if JACK is making something segfault in the repos.
<ghostcube> persia: i must say i dont use the official jackd packages -.-
<ghostcube> i want to figure out who has made the buggy package heh
<ghostcube> so anything doesnt like each other in lucid
<mok0> Just upgraded to lucid... my god
<ghostcube> persia: cause it works if you start mplayer and then jackd to use the output i dont think its jackd causing this
<mok0> so many bugs
<hyperair> mok0: you noticed that too?
<persia> ghostcube: Try the regular repo version: that might not have the issue.
<mok0> hyperair: yes
<hyperair> mok0: which bugs did you hit?
<mok0> hyperair:  it's horrible
<persia> y'all should try upgrading earlier, to fix stuff :)
<ghostcube> persia: yah iam going to check it :)
<hyperair> mok0: i spent two days just fixing all the things that failed to upgrade, since my upgrade went borked halfway
<mok0> hyperair: I am trying to get my nvidia driver to work
<ghostcube> hmm no hazl for me with nvidia here, what kind of driver?
<hyperair> mok0: get intel!
<hyperair> =p
<persia> It's Patch Day!  If anyone has time, please come by #ubuntu-reviews and help knock out patches.
<mok0> ghostcube: proprietary, it's the only one giving a decent performance on the GPU I have
<ghostcube> packaged one or binary version from nvidia page?
<mok0> ghostcube: however, jockey fails
<mok0> ghostcube: package
 * slytherin ditched 5 years of upgraded Ubuntu for fresh install of Lucid
<mok0> ghostcube: but I might go the manual way
<ghostcube> hmmm my nvidia-current worked fine in the update, i did it in terminal by do-release-upgrade
<ghostcube> the only thing hit me was to move .kde but normal :D
<mok0> We need to stop this semi-annual release cycle bullshit
<mok0> ... and release when it's ready
<ghostcube> yeah like debian does -.-
<mok0> ghostcube: yes
<persia> mok0: Takes too long.  We need to do better to try to make it ready in 6 months (maybe this means less new stuff, etc.)
<mok0> persia: nobody releases towards a fixed date
<persia> We do.
<mok0> persia: not even Apple
<mok0> persia: that's why Ubuntu releases are so extremely buggy
<mok0> persia: and it's getting worse
<mok0> persia: karmic was awful
<persia> I think the issue is a lack of coordination, rather than the schedule.
<persia> I think we'd be equally buggy for any arbitrary date.
<mok0> persia: I disagree
<persia> I also think we'd slow down and have a hard time releasing if we didn't release buggy, given the significant lack of attention given to stuff like RCbugs as release nears.
<persia> mok0: Fair :)  I doubt I'll convince you, nor you me :)
<mok0> persia: heh
<mok0> Sorry bitching. When my system runs in a week or so, I will be in a better mood
<persia> Understood.  That's part of why I always upgrade pre-beta: it gives me a chance to at least complain about the bugs pre-release, so that maybe some of them can be fixed.
<mok0> persia: This is my production system
<mok0> persia: I can't afford to have it not working for days and days
<persia> I understand.  I find the FFE process lighter-weight than the SRU process, so since I expect upgrade pain, I time my upgrades appropriately.  My choice isn't right for everyone.
<mok0> The SRU process is a disaster
<mok0> That's the kindest thing I can say about it :-)
<cemc> ghostcube: sorry for not replying... I have karmic for now, and not using jackd (i think ;) )
 * hyperair thinks karmic was a golden release for me
<hyperair> imo dapper, intrepid, and karmic were the best ubuntus
<hyperair> lucid.. well i don't know.
<mok0> hyperair: lucid has been hyped too much.
<hyperair> mok0: well yeah, i think the indicators were not implemented properly
<hyperair> and the 10sec time wasn't achieved for me. still 120sec
<mok0> hyperair: indicators?
<hyperair> mok0: application indicators
<mok0> ah
<hyperair> features cut off, not replaced with equivalents
<hyperair> and despite lucid being an lts, someone's going around claiming that he's conducting tests.
<ogra> hyperair, i have 7seconds on one system and 12 on another
<hyperair> ogra: good for you
<hyperair> ogra: i suppose i have cryptsetup+lvm to blam
<ogra> ah, likely
 * ogra uses neither
<hyperair> that said, from boot => login is awesome
<persia> hyperair: Mostly cryptsetup: LVM should still boot fast.
<mok0> Well I need to reboot so I can come back and tell you my results. How do you measure?
<hyperair> from login screen => usable is terrible.
<hyperair> boot => login screen takes ~ 10 sec, if not less
<ogra> yeah, i agree with persia
<hyperair> after that takes the remaining 2 minutes =.=
<kklimonda> mok0: install bootchart and do two restarts with auto login enabled
<mok0> hyperair: boot, it that from grub fires up the boot sequenc?
<persia> hyperair: Consider dropping stuff fom your session :)
<hyperair> persia: i did >_>
<mok0> kklimonda: ah ok
<hyperair> persia: the only custom things i have in my session.. are probably conky and rainlendar
<hyperair> and gnome-do and docky
<hyperair> that's about it
<hyperair> the panel might be a culprit
<hyperair> i've got quite a few applets there
<ogra> hyperair, ever tested with a newly created account ?
<ogra> just to have comparison data
<hyperair> ogra: yeah, it's pretty fast. which is weird.
<ghostcube> cemc: np :)
<hyperair> actually i take that back about 10secs
<ogra> might be something in your gconf settings ...
<hyperair> after 25 secs, ureadahead is still running.
<ogra> something that wasnt carried over properly
<ghostcube> lucid is the second gutsy
<ghostcube> :D
<ghostcube> a bit of everything
<hyperair> ogra: maybe. my gconf dates back to dapper.
<hyperair> i mean my entire home directory
<ogra> well, mine dates back to warty but i rarely change defaults
 * hyperair did a lot of customization
<hyperair> so much that i don't know if i'd be able to reproduce all of them given a pristine system
<hyperair> speaking of which, my /home is due for a backup
<Breaking_Pitt> Hello I have a problem with my package(once again)
<Breaking_Pitt> I have been working on it but I'm getting this error
<Breaking_Pitt> "update-python-modules: error: /usr/share/python-support/bicho.public is not a directory" in the post-installation script
<Breaking_Pitt> some advice please?
<mok0> My boot time is around 100s
<mok0> What do I need to do to get back my GLX visual?
<mok0> Yikes! What happened to xorg.conf?
 * slytherin wonders what's wrong with launchpad, the 'Post Comment' button keeps disappearing.
<persia> mok0: It was deemed obsolete for most users.
<Breaking_Pitt> hey  I need som helpl, I can't continue some adviceÂ¿?
<persia> Breaking_Pitt: So, does dpkg -c show that directory in your .deb?  Why do you think it ought exist?  What call do you have in postinst that expects it to be there?
<Breaking_Pitt> ok persia let me see thanks for your advice
<Breaking_Pitt> persia, this is what dpkg -c shows -rw-r--r-- root/root       549 2010-05-04 10:50 ./usr/share/python-support/bicho.public
<Breaking_Pitt> let me see my postinst
<persia> OK.  That's not a directory :)
<Breaking_Pitt> i know
<Breaking_Pitt> but http://pastebin.com/z5xSz9Qb here is my postinst
<Breaking_Pitt> this was create by the builddeb
<persia> I have no idea what update-python-modules does, but I expect that it expects a directory.  What is "builddeb"?
<Breaking_Pitt> i
<Breaking_Pitt> I've created this package using cdbs and devhelper
 * POX suspects using old python-support with package generated for new one
<Breaking_Pitt> sorry POX?
<POX> which version of python-support do you have?
<Breaking_Pitt> do you think that the error is in the control file?
<Breaking_Pitt> let me see
<Breaking_Pitt> seems to be none
<Breaking_Pitt> :(
<mok0> persia: Is xorg.conf read if present?
<persia> mok0: I haven't tried since February, but it was then.
<mok0> persia: I see, thanks
<POX> Breaking_Pitt: apt-cache policy python-support | pastebinit -i -
<Breaking_Pitt> sorry what does pastebinit -i?
<POX> sends it to one of http://www.google.com/search?q=pastebin
<kmdm> Bit OT but should do-release-upgrade on a Hardy server be offering the Lucid upgrade? Because it's not unless I pass it the -d option...
<soren> kmdm: Yes, it is.
<kmdm> soren: Hrm, not for me... apt is pointing at de.archive..., Prompt=lts, do-release-upgrade says "No new release found" and with -d it downloads the upgrade tool
<soren> kmdm: right. It's *supposed* to, but doesn't.
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LucidUpgrades
<ogra> use --proposed
<kmdm> aha, ta :) now back to the more interesting problem of trying to upgrade a 1and1 colo server where the server doesn't return after reboot and no serial console ;)
<Breaking_Pitt> POX you are rigth
<Breaking_Pitt> it was a problem with python-support
<james_w> can a MOTU please try changing the status of https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/ssss/maverick/+edit and then changing it back please?
<POX> Breaking_Pitt: I bet you didn't read dpkg warnings (python-support is setting correct minimum versions in Depends)
<Breaking_Pitt> I've read the warning but I have found the main mistake
<Breaking_Pitt> I've created the package in a ubuntu
<Breaking_Pitt> and the testing was done in a debbian
<soren> james_w: Is it ok if it's a core-dev?
<Breaking_Pitt> maybe this was some part of the problem
<james_w> soren: yup
<soren> james_w: Oh. Now I own it.
<james_w> woops :-)
<james_w> fixed
<james_w> but it worked, that's odd
<james_w> thanks
<soren> james_w: The web UI still defaults to passing over the ownership to me.
<james_w> ouch
<james_w> please report that as a bug
<soren> james_w: bug 575086
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575086 in launchpad "Changing a branch's settings defaults to changing owner as well" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575086
<james_w> thanks
<soren> Sure thing.
<soren> james_w: It's probably because I'm not a member of ubuntu-branches, so I can't specify that team as the owner. Or something.
<james_w> yeah, that's what I just commented
<soren> Ah, yes, so you did.
<soren> It's Tuesday!
<soren> \o/
<astraljava> http://isitfriday.biz/
<soren> ...so today is today, rather than tomorrow, which isn't for another day. Whoo!
<james_w> soren: do you have the pencil icon that would allow you to edit the status of https://code.launchpad.net/~lfaraone/ubuntu/lucid/accerciser/libgail-dep/+merge/23773 ?
<soren> james_w: I don't think I do, no.
<soren> james_w: Where is it supposed to be?
<soren> Oh, where the status is.
<soren> No, I don't.,
<james_w> thanks for checking, last one, I assume you do on https://code.launchpad.net/~bluetooth/ubuntu/maverick/obexd/main/+merge/24584 ?
<james_w> soren: ^
<soren> james_w: Yes, I do.
<james_w> thanks
<soren> james_w: Sure.
<james_w> now I understand
<nigelbabu> YokoZar: the wine translations are all accepted?
<nigelbabu> We're having patch day today (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PatchDay), anyone interested in helping out are welcome to join #ubuntu-reviews
<jetienne_> q. i would like to install lighttpd, but not start it. currently this is currently conflicting with apache2
<dyfet> jetienne_ I think this is broadly an upstart question...how to install a service (managed by upstart) and not to have it automatically start at boot?  it's also something I had wanted to know too :)
<dyfet> jetienne_: you can play with the runlevels in the /etc/init/xxxx.conf file directly, but that seems ugly to me
<dyfet> jetienne__: you can play with the runlevels in the /etc/init/xxxx.conf file directly, but that seems ugly to me
<jetienne__> dyfet: yep and this wont help it not to start. aka it will try to start, and then i will modify it
<dyfet> yes...
<dyfet> jetienne__: that's why I was hoping someone would suggest a better way to accomplish this
<jetienne__> dyfet: there are some hidden env variables, i bet one is cool in my case
<YokoZar> nigelbabu: from the bug report, yes (except the last one posted like yesterday, [et] I think)
<dyfet> jetienne__: if they are package specific env vars, you then have to know the package...there should be a more generic use-case/means to do this with upstart itself
<nigelbabu> YokoZar: are we giving those back to upstream?
<YokoZar> nigelbabu: no, they don't apply upstream
<jetienne__> dyfet: ok i will look thanks
<nigelbabu> YokoZar: not even debian?
<YokoZar> nigelbabu: the .desktop files they translate aren't in Debian or upstream
<nigelbabu> YokoZar: is it worthwhile to forward to debian?
<YokoZar> nigelbabu: Debian might start using my packages though (in which case they would get the translations anyway)
<nigelbabu> YokoZar: oh cool :)
<dyfet> jetienne__: when I say there "should be", I mean if there isn't, I would suggest it as a feature request :)
<Laney> how can I tell sbuild to use different mirrors for debian and ubuntu chroots?
<siretart> Laney: configure different mirrors in the chroots?
<Laney> siretart: oh, like that? Thought it might be external.
<siretart> Laney: sbuild TTBOMK doesn't touch apt's configuration files
 * Laney tries
<om26er> how to make a deb from python source?
<astraljava> om26er: There's a good guide here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python
<om26er> astraljava, thanks alot its build now :)
<astraljava> np :)
<ghostcube_> cemc: btw for the vdpau repo the mplayer is not build for lucid :)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-05
<djsmith> I've got a patch to fix (what I consider) a bug in /etc/dhcp3/dhclient-exit-hooks.d/ntp. Is this an okay place to discuss it?
<RAOF> djsmith: dhclient is in main, isn't it?  #ubuntu-devel might be better.  Although filing a bug on launchpad is generally the best spot to put bugs :)
<micahg> RAOF: the file in question is in ntp, which is still in main :)
<RAOF> micahg: Fair suck of the sav. :)
<micahg> ?
 * RAOF declares today âtalk like an aussieâ day.
<micahg> RAOF: google translate doesn't know Aussie :)
<RAOF> âFair enoughâ is a reasonable translation :)
<micahg> RAOF: ah, k
<djsmith> RAOF: I'll use ubuntu-bug then. Thanks
<guidoi> similar question
<guidoi> I've posted a patch to fix an usability bug in compiz
<guidoi> it's already applied upstream
<guidoi> but till the compiz team release the new version
<guidoi> i believe it can be applied on ubuntu's current package too, as an upgrade
<guidoi> someone pointed me to #ubuntu-motu
<guidoi> but i don't know if compiz is in main or what
<guidoi> let me check
<ajmitch> compiz is in main
<imbrandon> guidoi: where is the patch ? /me is afk for a few minutes
<ajmitch> RAOF: can I choose not to talk like an aussie, please? :)
<guidoi> let me get you the url imbrandon
<imbrandon> guidoi: attach the patch to a bug on launchpad against compiz, then subscribe ( NOT assign ) ubuntu-sponsors, when maverick opens we can grab it then
<guidoi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/207065
<guidoi> it's already attached
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207065 in compiz "Bad Compiz Bindings Bug" [Low,Triaged]
<guidoi> uhm suscribe ubuntu-sponsors..
<ajmitch> 'subscribe someone else' on the right-hand side, if you haven't done so
<guidoi> yes i'm on that
<guidoi> Ubuntu Sponsors
<guidoi> or Ubuntu Sponsors for main
<ajmitch> Ubuntu Sponsors
<Laney> oh, my sponsors membership is running out
<guidoi> Ubuntu Sponsors Team team has been subscribed to this bug.
<Laney> persia or TheMuso: please add me to the new team
<guidoi> great, what's ubuntu sponsors team? i mean, how do you define/become sponsor
<Laney> any ubuntu developer with upload powers can sponsor
<imbrandon> guidoi: any ubuntu developer that wishes to become a sponsor and spends some time reviewing patches like yours becomes one
<imbrandon> basicly is a self selecting subset of ubuntu-developers
<guidoi> ah, now i get it
<imbrandon> guidoi: if someone hasent gotten to your patch by .... i'd say about a week after maverick opens you might re-ping us in here
<imbrandon> maverick should open in 2 days ( but its not set in stone )
<imbrandon> and by open i mean status != frozen in launchpad so we can upload
<guidoi> sorry for being so ... un-educated , but what's maverick?
<imbrandon> what will become the next version of ubuntu, e.g ubuntu 10.10
<imbrandon> maverick is the "next" codename , like lucid for 10.04
<guidoi> oh i see
<guidoi> lucid will only receive security updates from now on
<imbrandon> guidoi: you can see the frozenness status at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu , bout 3/4 way down on the right
<Aquina> well lucid will also have backports, right?
<imbrandon> guidoi: yes security updates and major bugfixes
<imbrandon> and in come cases backports
<imbrandon> s/come/some
<Aquina> :-)
<persia> Just a reminder, it's Patch Day.  Anyone with some time to review patches and help get them in the right places is encouraged to stop by #ubuntu-reviews and help out.
<RAOF> df00z1: We don't discriminate against stupid buildsystems; your build target could probably be more succinctly specified as â$(MAKE) install DISTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/iscsitargetâ, though.
<lifeless> RAOF: hah
<df00z1> oh, I didn't realize you could specify distdir on the same line like that
<persia> make accepts variables by a stunningly diverse array of methods.
<RAOF> Bonus points for remembering which definitions take precedence! :)
<hyperair> RAOF: DESTDIR...
<df00z1> the other thing is, type of package, single binary, multiple, library, etc
<persia> hyperair: No, DISTDIR.  upstream is special.
<df00z1> the package contains a kernel module AND a few binaries
<RAOF> hyperair: No, DISTDIR :)
<hyperair> ah, "special" upstreams.
 * hyperair facepalms
<df00z1> Would the type be "single binary" or would I need to break out the package into a kernel module and userland?
<persia> df00z1: You want multiple, and you want to look at dkms to build the kernel modules at install-time (as you can't know which kernel is installed at package build time)
<persia> df00z1: I'd recommend four packages: -source (for m-a users), -module (for dkms users), -docs, and -tools (some folks just use the barename for this one)
<persia> -source is extra points, and can safely be skipped if you like :)
<df00z1> ...hmmm
<df00z1> there's an init.d script though
<df00z1> which requires the kernel module be loaded
<df00z1> the initd script actuallt does a modprobe
<df00z1> so im not sure i can seperate userland from the kernel module...it would have to require the kernel module
<persia> Consider starting the service based on a udev rule instead.
<persia> So that when the module loads, it starts the daemon, etc.
<persia> If the module isn't autoloaded based on hardware detection, consider having the module package do something to ensure it's autoloaded by another means, so it then triggers udev, which triggers the daemon, which leaves a working system.  initscripts are serialised, and slow down startup, etc.
<psusi> bah... imageshack doesn't like .svg it seems
<hyperair> pastebin it!
<hyperair> svgs are text after all =D
<df00z1> I guess I could figure out udev and make it do something like that...
<df00z1> thats non standard
<df00z1> so id have to document it
<psusi> heh
<df00z1> non standard for other distros that is
<psusi> you don't want to view it as text though
<df00z1> anyone who's used to using it would be kinda confused
<df00z1> haha
<df00z1> arnt they XML based
<psusi> I think
<df00z1> surely theres someone out there who can look at the text and paint you a picture of it
<df00z1> hahaha
<psusi> picture viewer does that just fine
<df00z1> then they can save it as a jpg
<df00z1> and put it on imageshack
<jdong> web browsers also do it
<persia> df00z1: Which distro doesn't use udev?
<df00z1> Oh, most use udev
<df00z1> but to start and stop services for this one specific app
<persia> df00z1: Also note that by using udev, you skip the entire sysvinit/upstart/systemd/etc. set of questions.
<df00z1> lol, their makefile has a series of if statements
<persia> Any service that depends on a kernel module *should* use udev to start/stop that service, based on the presence/absence of the kernel module.
<df00z1> that try to detect what distro you're on
<df00z1> and installs the correct init script accordingly
<persia> Yeah, that's just messy :)  Doing it in udev lets you have one standard method for every distro :)
<persia> The bit to consider is that you can't know when the user boots a different kernel, so you might have an initscript that ends up failing because it can't load the module, or worse, claiming to start a service that doesn't work because it has the wrong module.
<persia> And that's just a waste of computation when you can detect the module load, and the user *already* has N ways to ensure that a given module loads if it's available on the system.
<psusi> ahh there we go, saved as png and it's smaller, heh...
<psusi> before: http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5379/befores.png
<psusi> after: http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4760/afterw.png
<psusi> now I can't figure out why it isn't all in one tight ring in the middle... hrm...
<persia> What do the colors mean?
<psusi> apparently different color = different file
<jdong> psusi: temugen's bzr branch has a newer revision
<jdong> psusi: the current one scales the graph to the smallest and largest block# mentioned by ureadahead
<jdong> e.g. before/after are NOT drawn to absolute scale
<jdong> only to relative distance.
<jdong> psusi: the new one has a -f parameter to draw everything
<jdong> psusi: bzr branch http://bradmisik.com/trunk/fragraph/
<psusi> I can't figure out why there seem to be two general rings in the after instead of everything being in a tight ring in the middle....
<psusi> it seems like I didn't manage to get a complete list of the pack file files to defrag...
<jdong> psusi: I just gave temugen the pngs and he asked the same :)
 * jdong spawns temugen...
<jdong> hey it worked!
<psusi> lol
<jdong> psusi: does boot feel any faster?
 * psusi uploads bootcharts
<jdong> damn cool though
<jdong> I've ALWAYS wondered what a Windows-esque defragger graph of a Linux FS looked like
<temugen> jdong: I thought the windows-esque ones were the strip type?
<jdong> temugen: no way, if anything a rectangular array
<jdong> temugen: Diskeeper popularized the strip thing
<jdong> and I have highly negative opinions about diskeeper, but anyway, that's not relevant to this ;-)
<jdong> (in short, the way they labeled fragmentation as a disease to the point that their product has a constant background process that defrags every few seconds is ABSURD)
<jdong> psusi: can you update your fragraph to bzr and generate your after pic again with -f?
<jdong> (which plots the entire disk)
<psusi> before: http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9495/faldaralucid201005041.png
<psusi> http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1530/faldaralucid201005045.png
<psusi> after...
<jdong> psusi: wow the disk is definitely used less afterwards and reaches higher peaks
<psusi> jdong, you update the bzr in the last few minutes?  branched it about 2 hours ago
<jdong> psusi: oh, no we didn't. pass in -f?
<temugen> psusi: no updates; it was stable since yesterday
<psusi> jdong, yea... it reads the files faster as they seem to be backed at the start, which is why I'm wondering why the image shows a sort of outer ring
 * jdong giggles about the use of "stable" :)
<psusi> I'd have to boot back off the rotational disk to do that
<psusi> does this graph the blocks used by directories too?  or only the files themselves that are listed in the pack file?
<jdong> psusi: only the files
<psusi> because so far I just filtered the output of ureadahead --dump with a few greps and an ls -i to get a list of inode numbers of the files it reads, which does not include the directories those files live in
<jdong> psusi: that's what we do too
<psusi> the big 1.5-2 second dip of nearly zero io in the boot chart after the initial square wave is where ureadahead is looping on open() and keeps blocking to fetch one block of directory at a time
<psusi> I need to rework ureadahead to not open() and readahead() each file, but rather call readahead() on the raw block device for all blocks used by the files, and the directories they live in
<psusi> hrm... but yea.... all of the files in the ureadahead pack SHOULD be crammed at the start of the disk... at least after the root directory and journal
<psusi> I need to figure out what files those blocks in the outer ring are from
<jdong> psusi: again, graph with -f to make it to scale.
<psusi> to scale?  I thought -f just graphed all files, not just those in the pack file?  or did I misunderstand?
<jdong> psusi: -f makes the start block 0 and end block max_block
<temugen> psusi: it graphs the whole span of the block device
<psusi> what is it otherwise?
<jdong> psusi: without -f start block is min(readahead_mentioned_block) and end block is max(readahead_mentioned_block)
<jdong> so just the region mentioned by readahead.
<psusi> ohh... then I'm REALLY confused
<jdong> yeah
<psusi> I thought the unmarked space before the inner ring was the journal and root directory
<jdong> which is why I said the graph wasn't to scale and somewhat deceptive in that regard.
<jdong> no no no :)
<jdong> the way that it's by default, it ONLY graphs the region in which there's files mentioned by ureadahead
<psusi> other than that, everything else ureadahead reads should be packed tightly followign that in the first and second block groups
<jdong> so in that way, it preserves the betweenness relationship
<jdong> but not "scale" of the entire disk
<jdong> you want -f for that
<psusi> hrm...
<jdong> and arguably -f should be default, if not for historical reasons
<jdong> (namely, temugen figured out how to get the size of the disk AFTER writing the initial concept) :)
<psusi> k... guess I'll reboot and regraph... would be nice if I could tell it to use the pack file and device under /mnt ;)
<psusi> actually, I can probably fool it with chroot
<temugen> and like -f, you can also specify a bpm (like 1000, which would be one visible block is equal to 1000 disk sectors)
<temugen> psusi: that would be easy to implement if you want me to :) The Ureadahead class already accepts a pack file string in its constructor, just need to get the block device to do the same
<jdong> psusi: I'm hoping it's just the start:end range decreased by orders of magnitude before vs after
<jdong> which I wouldn't doubt to be the case!
<temugen> and it's clear you guys want -f to be default as well :)
<jdong> temugen: hahaha only C/C++ gets the right to make crummy things default for historical reasons ;-)
<psusi> hrm... /dev/252:5: No such file or directory
<jdong> hahahaha looks like we're missing a level of indirection? XD
<psusi> when I was booted from that drive it complained about /dev/dm-5 missing, so I had to symlink it to the correct lvm device
<jdong> psusi: eeeep you're on a LVM device?
<psusi> jdong, of course ;)
<jdong> psusi: you missed keybuk's big speech about how ureadahead doesn't work on device-mapper ;-)
<jdong> psusi: but I do admire your hack for it!
<psusi> eh?  works just fine
<jdong> psusi: it's not supposed to (tm)
<psusi> why not?
<jdong> psusi: because device mapper hides away the abstraction of physical location on disk.
<psusi> so?  ureadahead's idea of physical location is just going to be relative to the start of the volume
<jdong> psusi: or more concretely, stat()ing the mountpoint does not yield a major/minor that can be used to loo kup /sys/class/dev/block/major:minor/queue/rotational
<psusi> normally it's relative to the start of the partition... same thing....
<jdong> psusi: (I'm requiring Keybuk, argue with him, not me!)
<psusi> actually, it does ;)
<psusi> I was actually kind of surprised that that part worked... but ureadahead seems to judge correctly that I'm using ssd normally and rotational for this test volume I copied to the old disks
<jdong> psusi: that's freakish that queue/rotational works on device-mapper :)
<psusi> jdong, I assumed ureadahead was being smart enough to notice the slaves in /sys and check queue/rotational on the slave instead
<jdong> psusi: I'm pretty sure it's not that smart
<psusi> hell, when I first installed karmic before I got the ssd, it was on lvm on the old dmraid raid 0...  after I got the ssd, I just had lvm pick up the running root volume and migrate it on the fly while it was in use over to the ssd
<psusi> then I made a snapshot and tried upgrading to lucid ;)
<jdong> lol I'm confused how snapshots and ureadahead work in practice :)
<jdong> considering logical block locations have nothing to do with physical locations in that case
<psusi> ureadahead just works with logical block locations
<jdong> yes, ureadahead itself works
<jdong> but what it's DOING doesn't work that well IMO when you've got COW and other relocating going on
<psusi> oh yea... it won't perform optimally if the files it's trying to read are split between the original disk and the cow store
<jdong> right
<psusi> at one point when testing lucid I actually booted using the snapshot as the root fs to perform the upgrade from karmic to lucid and if it didn't work, I was just going to delete the snapshot
<psusi> it was kinda cool
<psusi> then I wanted to keep lucid and merge the snapshot back into the origin, but that isn't supported just yet... think it went into 2.6.34
<psusi> anyhow.... back to defrag.. why is fraggraph complaining about /dev/252:5? ;)
<jdong> psusi: trace through the codepath that maps a stat to a /sys/class/block/dev
<temugen> psusi: it checks /sys/dev/block/252:5 for a link
<psusi> ohh, it wanted /sys and /proc --bind mounted in the chroot ;)
<jdong> HAHAHAHAHA
<jdong> XD
<jdong> yes, sysfs would be nice to have :)
<jdong> so would /dev :)
<persia> psusi: schroot is *wonderfully* flexible at doing that sort of tricky bits, if you're just a chroot user (rather than using chroot() as an implementation detail)
<temugen> psusi: so yea, it checks /sys/dev/block/#:# for a link and then reads the output of blockdev on /dev/xxx#
<psusi> the -f didn't seem to make any difference
<psusi> yea, I bound /dev, just forgot /sys ;)
<psusi> there are still two well defined rings, an inner, and an outer, neither of which are all the way against the spindle
<persia> Might it be possible that those are better read locations for some odd reason on that particular device?
<psusi> no... I configured defrag to pack the files in question at the start, so they should all be crammed right around the center in the graph
<psusi> what I need is a mouseover to tell me what file those blocks belong to when I point at them in the graph ;)
<psusi> temugen, any chance you get can that to happen? :)
<baddog> hi
<persia> hey baddog
<baddog> looks like pbuilder requires a fairly big download to set up, which isn't feasible for me. Are there any alternatives available?
<baddog> I would like to get involved with the MOTU
<persia> The alternatives all also require a fair bit of download, plus *using* any of the build-test tools requires download of all the build-deps for each build.
<baddog> hm. crap :(
<persia> Some folks use PPAs, but that tends to run into issues with changelog entries and version numbers.
<baddog> :/
<persia> Some folk don't test-build, but we don't approve of that much :)
<baddog> I guess I'd better find somewhere else to contribute then :P
<persia> Well, we'd be happy to get patches, if you have some.
<baddog> hm. I don't :P
<baddog> but k
<baddog> ok*
<persia> But yeah, if you're bandwidth-constrained, I'd strongly recommend working with one or a few specific upstream development projects.
<baddog> yeah
<persia> You'll have an initial load pulling the code and history, and some continuous load keeping your tree up-to-date, but you won't have the constant test-building.
<baddog> I suppose
<persia> Well, you will, but it won't be from arbitrary packages needing downloading all the time: you'll rather just be building the one source.
<ScottK> That or depending on the type of constraint, one might use a local mirror.
<baddog> nah, local mirrors won't help at all
<baddog> bbl
<temugen> psusi: absolutely
<temugen> psusi: anything to help out your defrag work :)
<jdong> temugen: please tell me SVG's have an alt= equivalent ;-)
<temugen> jdong: it wouldn't be more than 10min of work to render it with a mouseover anyway. I've got all of that data (locations and file blocks) readily available
<temugen> but sure, I'll look into that first :P
<jdong> temugen: render with mouseover? it's a SVG!
<temugen> jdong: so? pygame has an svg library!
<jdong> temugen: I hope they add alt= support before they add onclick= javascript events :)
<temugen> but yes, me too :)
<jdong> ah, pygame
<jdong> yeah let's just link everything against SDL!
<jdong> *ducks* :)
<temugen> sheesh, this is basically a necessary feature now. why didn't we think of that before?
<jdong> temugen: eh because you started out making it just a slide renderer for me based on a selfish request :)
<jdong> temugen: it appears that all the SVG tags support a <desc> subtag </desc>
<temugen> jdong: ah, good point :) (minus the selfish request) The commenting and structure sure wouldn't lend itself to those motives, though
<jdong> I'm not convinced what SVG renderers support that
<ScottK> requirements creep is fun.
<jdong> temugen: can it make extra-fragmented files blink?
<jdong> *runs*
<temugen> jdong: *sigh* it CAN do a lot of things. Do I need to program them is the question.
<psusi> ahhh, being married is awesome
<psusi> lol
<psusi> jdong, temugen yea... I need to figure out what is causing that outlying ring of blocks... inode numbers or names, I don't care.. either way I can analyze in debugfs
<persia> Just a reminder, it's Patch Day. Anyone with some time to review patches and help get them in the right places is encouraged to stop by #ubuntu-reviews and help out.
<imbrandon> evening all
<fabrice_sp> 'morning imbrandon
<fabrice_sp> does somebody knows why the sponsoring page shows all packages as unseeded?
<fabrice_sp> it makes hard to find the packages I can sponsor :-/
<persia> fabrice_sp: Might be something related to the maverick transition: you could just try uploading anything listed as "unseeded" and see what happens :)  Alternately, check with rmadison.
<mannyv> persia: hi from earlier
<persia> hey.
<Rhonda> persia: speaking of maverick, what needs to get done to make wesnoth-1.8 sync into there and dropping the ubuntu patch? :)
<persia> Needs a sync bug.
<Rhonda> Alright, will look into it.
<persia> requestsync should do it.
<ajmitch> Rhonda: oh hi, I did do that libsdl1.2 diff, just fetching the patches from the last 2 debian uploads :)
 * ajmitch needs to follow up on it a bit :)
<Rhonda> Ah, yes, please don't forget about it. Users are already pretty unhappy with the required workarounds.
<Rhonda> Every time I stumble upon bug #56125 I have to laugh again. :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 56125 in apt "apt-get moo doesn't look like a cow" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56125
<ajmitch> why isn't that critical?
<Rhonda> hihi, which brings me back to my comment in http://bugs.debian.org/271810 ;)
<Rhonda> ajmitch: But you could test/comment in bug #570609 if you feel like it. ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570609 in karmic-backports "Please backport wesnoth-1.8 (1:1.8-3ubuntu1/universe)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570609
<imbrandon> ajmitch / Rhonda : the cow bug, i went back to go read it, and apparently i touched it 4 years ago, wow i've been arround here too long
<imbrandon> lol
<Rhonda> I still don't see any informations about author/license for the proposed cows so this should rather be considered invalid.
<imbrandon> author is the original poster, but your right, no license for the patch proposed ;)
<Rhonda> Actually I'm serious on that. I hate it to see Felix Lee's cat used all over the place with stripped out author tag.
<imbrandon> but then again most patches arent licensed
<Rhonda> imbrandon: I highly doubt that the original poster was the author.
<Rhonda> Stating "gentoo's cow" doesn't make it sound like he did it himself.
<imbrandon> sure, he/she could have made the hybrid ;)
<imbrandon> its only a 4 char change imho
<Rhonda> But then he did a derived work from something he might not have a license for.
<imbrandon> ahh now THAT is a good call, but again i have a feeling apt is licensed gpl X even on gentoo
<imbrandon> thus patches and dirivatives must be too
<Rhonda> Does gentoo has apt?
<imbrandon> sure, as does fedora and a few other distros
<Rhonda> I'm not sure that the cow does appear in apt in gentoo. And even then - others can do mistake, we shouldn't just "believe" them.
<imbrandon> there is even apt for win32 via cygwin pkg mgmt
<Rhonda> And actually, the way ascii art is handled within the cowsay package makes me feel extremely uneasy.
<imbrandon> Rhonda: very true, i'm inclided to agree, just giving the devils advocate :)
<\sh> moins
<Rhonda> http://rhonda.deb.at/ascii/unsorted.html
<imbrandon> heya \sh
<Rhonda> When looking at it, I still like my dust puppy and wilbert. :)
<imbrandon> :)
<\sh> -Etoomanyblueprints and topics ;)
<imbrandon> lol, \sh yup, seems that way every 6 months
<\sh> imbrandon, well, in former times it was more "ok, what sounds interesting"...now it's "heck, there are too many topics we are stumbling upon during our daily work"...the whole java stack crap falls into this category
<imbrandon> \sh: yea, you just have to pick the ones you can contribute the most to and trust the others are handled correctly, thats some of the growing pains of being soo biug
<imbrandon> big*
<\sh> imbrandon, well, good thing about this uds is, I'm not alone on this one...our junior sysadmin needs to do some work too...he isn't even involved in this whole ubuntu business, but he will be in no time...
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> food time, back in a bit
<\sh> and this is only all about server, monitoring, puppet and java foo .. oh hell
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> \sh: is anything happening with leonov these days?
<\sh> ajmitch, wanna takeover? looks like with kid, wife and work I'm totally occupied, but if I find somehow the time to do some hacking on leonov, sure...there will be progress
 * imbrandon is curious what leonov is ...
<\sh> leonov was the idea of a desktop launchpad client
<imbrandon> ohhhhhhh nice
<imbrandon> that would be awesom imho
<\sh> imbrandon, http://www.leonov.tv/
<ajmitch> it needs its guts replaced to use launchpadlib
 * \sh needs to update all that
 * imbrandon peeks
<\sh> ajmitch, yes
<ajmitch> I might hack on it a bit & see if I can get anywhere with that
<imbrandon> is it python ?
<ajmitch> it is
<\sh> sure it's python
<imbrandon> nice
<ajmitch> groundcontrol has some similar ideas, but a different focus, I think
<\sh> most of the things I do are nowadays in python
<imbrandon> ajmitch: i might hack a bit too, but you konw my python guru-ness so i'll probably pass stuff through you ;)
<imbrandon> isnt groundcontrol more server admin stuff like webmin on crack
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> https://edge.launchpad.net/groundcontrol
<imbrandon> ahh i misunderstood the 3 minutes i looked at it then via someones blogpost on planet
<ajmitch> \sh: I may as well join the team & quietly hack away on it, no promises on results soon though :)
<\sh> ajmitch, welcome :)
<imbrandon> ahh gc looks more like other app intergration
<imbrandon> from a glance
<imbrandon> ok food is done in the microwave, back again in a min
 * \sh hacks now mostly on FAI + Puppet + Django + QooxDoo to provide a "all you can eat" app framework for companies to auto-deploy/auto-configure their datacenters
<\sh> this I'm doing during my worktime, and the app will be released as GPLed (or whatever license I'll come up) to the public with blessing of my company
 * imbrandon is working on a license key verification webservice server mostly the last couple of days for $work
<\sh> ajmitch, done
<imbrandon> \sh: hahaha Shock Me!, man you dont know how much of a KISS geek I am
<imbrandon> \sh: i have so much KISS merchandise its not even funny, posters, guitar  and guitar picks form the members, ticket stubs, even a 1970's pinball machine
<\sh> imbrandon, are we all KISS geeks? ;) fire, blood, masks and guitars + gene simmons == must have addiction for geeks ;)
<imbrandon> heheh i was/am more of an ACE fan, he is the reason i started playing guitar way back in the day
<\sh> oh well...yes...space with ace
<imbrandon> even went as Ace for holloween a few years ;)
 * ajmitch prefers nice gentle music, like iron maiden
<\sh> what I like today is "gene simmons family jewels" on bio channel
<imbrandon> you know shock me was written because Ace was comming on stage one night durring tour in Germany and he got an electrical shock from the railing from a faulty ground, had to get a stand in guitarist for the show for that night
<\sh> ajmitch, like "gates of tomorrow" of "dance of death" (the music I'm right now listening too?)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: i'm more of a 60 and 70's rock guy, with a tiny bit of the 90's and really new stuff mixed in.
<imbrandon> pantera, omg, cowboys from hell ;)
<\sh> ah well Iron Maiden is still one of the masters of rock...on saturday I was watching a concert of 2003 (recorded in Dortmund, Germany) and even at their old age...they still rock like hell...Hail Eddie ;)
<\sh> (but I think they are still not that old than the original Kiss Lineup)
<imbrandon> hahah yea the original KISS lineup is what, in their early 60's now ?
<\sh> imbrandon, yes..genes 60s birthday was last year when I remember correctly
<\sh> but still...they rock every stadium...it's just so bombastic
<imbrandon> Paul Daniel Frehley (born April 27, 1951), better known as "Ace"
<imbrandon> ahh so 59
<imbrandon> yup
<\sh> last year around christmas, we got visitors from cameroon...one young girl (aged 14 or 15 dunno anymore) she checked my dvd collection and found the official kiss reunion story from 1996 .. she went mad and wanted to watch it directly...asked her "You know Kiss?" "sure, they're my fav band ever...they are so cute and sexy" ;)
<imbrandon> lol, wow
<\sh> Gene, born 1949
 * maco guesses she hasnt seen current photos
<imbrandon> maco: of ?
<maco> imbrandon: the guys from KISS
<imbrandon> maco: hehe probably, plastic surgery does wonders
<\sh> http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/10/18/kiss_fragrance_wideweb__470x313,2.jpg <- gene unmasked
<siretart> morning
<imbrandon> maco: http://www.zrock.com/zforum/images/blacktooth07_5342.jpg <- Ace Unmasked
<imbrandon> moins siretart
<maco> wow they still have enough hair to dye
<imbrandon> hehe
 * siretart hifives imbrandon :-)
<imbrandon> i actualy saw ace on that tour, it was the "rocket ride tour" of 2007ish
<\sh> http://www.kissonline.com/media/index/singlemediaplayer/mediaId/5/type/video/ :)
<imbrandon> \sh: wow thats old, from the 70's
<\sh> yes...in the 70ties I wasn't allowed to watch them at all :) and when they reunited in 1995 I was the first to buy tickets for the concert in dortmund...it was great...I even had tears in my eyes :)
<imbrandon> still a great song though
 * imbrandon gets back to Ubuntu stuff, before i sit and watch youtube all night of KISS ;)
<dholbach> good morning
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<dholbach> hi imbrandon
<\sh> imbrandon, lol
<soren> I'm constructing a watch file for libcloud. I want it to look at its download page (http://incubator.apache.org/libcloud/downloads.html) and find the .bz2 there. However, the link I can find there takes me to a page where I'm supposed to choose a mirror to download from. How do I deal with that?
<slytherin> soren: Use apache's primary distribution site in watch file
<soren> slytherin: They ask that people don't use the main mirrors.
<soren> "Please use the backup mirrors only to download PGP and MD5 signatures to verify your downloads or if no other mirrors are working."
<slytherin> soren: You are not downloading anything, only checking presence of a file
<soren> I'm certainly downloading if there's a new version.
<soren> I guess I'm going to have to do that. I don't see a way to make uscan do a two-step thing.
<slytherin> soren: I have always used main site in watch files. AFAIK, there is no other solution.
<ghostcube> persia: i tested the medibuntu mplayer, and the segfault is still there. i need to check how i can get jackd downgraded cause i use the 1.96 branch from an ppa. ubuntu has an other version packaged afaik
<ghostcube> its the first time since a bit that xine is compiled by ubuntu against jackd libs correct?
<slytherin> ghostcube: because jack moved to main in Lucid cycle.
<ghostcube> hmm, ok will do more bug hunting this evening :)
<ghostcube> i think ubuntu compiled jackd "old" release cycle with xine
<ghostcube> have to check later :)
<ghostcube> heh yeah i use jack2 and ubuntu offers jack 1
<ghostcube> so it will be hard to investigate my bug i think i must live with
<soren> slytherin: Ok, thanks.
<soren> Does anyone know how I can get uscan to understand that 1.0 is the newest version here: http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/p/python-cloudservers/
<POX> soren: opts=uversionmangle=s/(a|rc)/~$1/
<soren> POX: ROCK! Thanks.
<POX> soren: your sponsor suck for not pointing this out before uploading
<soren> POX: Heheh :)
 * soren loves his sponsor anyway
<slytherin> soren: Or easier would be to check only numerical versions. Expression would be ([\d\.]+)
<diwic> Sorry for being off topic here, but can somebody help me get in touch with Marianna (about UDS-M), either on IRC or on phone?
<Pici> diwic: You may have better luck asking in #ubuntu-community-team
<diwic> Pici: thanks
<ari-tczew> packages.ubuntu.com needs some love, because intrepid is EOL and maverick is current devel
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: Looking into it, thanks for the information.
 * Rhonda . o O ( cloning the packages.git repository right now )
<ari-tczew> no problem, you welcome
<Rhonda> Actually I wonder wether djpig might be the only one to be able to deploy it on Ubuntu, too.
<jpds> Rhonda: Yes.
<Rhonda> jpds: Thanks for the information. Actually I'm trying to convince to get added to the deployment group within Debian, maybe it might make sense to have a backup for Ubuntu, too.
<Rhonda> Did the maverick release obsolete any other release?
<jpds> No.
<Rhonda> dapper?
<jpds> No, dapper is supported until April next year.
<Rhonda> Hmm, it's not on the wiki frontpage anymore.
<jpds> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<Rhonda> Yes, it just confuses me that it isn't on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ itself anymore.
<jpds> Hmm, good point.
<Rhonda> jpds, ari-tczew: http://git.debian.org/?p=webwml/packages.git;a=commit;h=736a2217 - now it only has to get deployed. :)
<jpds> Rhonda: Might want to drop intrepid.
<ari-tczew> +1
 * Rhonda wonders why I asked before wether any other releases are obsoleted.  %-)
 * Rhonda nibbles on jpds's shoulder and does another commit.
<jpds> maverick didn't obsolete intrepid! They just happened to occur at the same time...
<Rhonda> nitpicker! :)
<Rhonda> Created commit b675bdf: remove intrepid
<ari-tczew> Rhonda, thanks!
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: Like mentioned, it seems to require djpig to deploy it, so it might take a while to become visible.
<ari-tczew> ok ok
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: now maverick in packages.ubuntu.com isn't importand, because debian import not yet works
<callum1> Hi all, I have found a bug in the xdg-email command. Not sure how I would go about making a new bug
<callum1> I also have a fix for this
<mannyv> callum1: first check and see if it is listed here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-utils/+bugs if it is then not open a new bug report
<mannyv> woops if it is not*
<callum1> mannyv: thanks I have had a look and this appears to be a new bug so I have posted the problem and the fi
<callum1> fix*
<geser> lucas: does http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lucas/merges.html already use Debian unstable as base?
<hyperair> Just a reminder, it's Patch Day. Anyone with some time to review patches and help get them in the right places is encouraged to stop by #ubuntu-reviews and help out.
<lucas> geser: fixed now to use sid, the public version will be updated in a few mins
<geser> thanks
<lucas> (maybe more, it's hammering the LP API when there are lots of pending merges)
<mannyv> callum1: if you are still around you should you should grab the source package with apt-get source xdg-utils and fix the bug in there then add a patch to the bug report
<callum1> mannyv: Yeah i was going to post the patch but  apt-get source xdg-utils
<callum1> Reading package lists... Done
<callum1> Building dependency tree
<callum1> Reading state information... Done
<callum1> E: Unable to find a source package for xdg-utils
<callum1> sorry about paste bomb
<geser> do you have the source repository enabled? (a deb-src line in your /etc/apt/sources.list?)
<callum1> not sure anyway to check which source this package comes from?
<geser> xdg-utils is the right source package
<persia> `apt-cache show ${PACKAGE} | grep Source || echo ${PACKAGE}` tends to work.
<soren> callum1: apt-get source takes care of that. "apt-get source <some binary package>" gives you the corresponding source package.
<callum1> Sorry I mean which sources.list is required for a particular package
<callum1> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=xdg-utils&suite=default&section=all&arch=any&searchon=names usually has universe/main etc but in this case it does not
<kklimonda> callum1: your bug is a duplicate of bug 528867 which has attached a branch with a fix.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528867 in xdg-utils "Typo in last compatibility patch for thunderbird" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528867
<callum1> kklimonda:  nice thats the fix I was going to propose :)
<callum1> Seeing as someone has already done this i will leave this. Thanks for your help guys
<mannyv> callum1: since you already files a bug report in LP you should go mark it as a duplicate with the link on the page labeled: "Mark as duplicate"
<mannyv> oh already done nm
<ScottK> nhandler: I see you were involved in the libnet-ssleay-perl update in Debian.  I was wondering if you could have a look at the 90test-fix-on-64bit-arches.patch patch in the Ubuntu package and see if you think it should be included by Debian too.
<lfaraone> Hey, does anybody running Jaunty have a chance to do a SRU verification for me? (it's as simple as "sudo apt-get install etoys; etoys", and if it runs, you're done)
<arand> lfaraone: I've got a virtualbox if that'll do?
<nigelbabu> Just a reminder, it's Patch Day. Anyone with some time to review patches and help get them in the right places is encouraged to stop by  #ubuntu-reviews and help out.
<nigelbabu> We only have about 108 bugs more to be reviewed, help us make it ZERO!
<lfaraone> arand: that's fine.
<lfaraone> arand: Bug 301190 is the ref
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 301190 in etoys "etoys does not launch" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301190
<lfaraone> When can we start to request syncs for Maverick? (after the toolchain?)
<proppy> Hi, is there a javascript shell available in universe ?
<proppy> it seems that spidermonkey-bin is gone
<ScottK> lfaraone: You can file sync requests now.  They won't be acted on for a while.
<geser> lfaraone: I've already filed some sync requests for packages that can be synced again (don't need a merge)
<arand> lfaraone: Noticed a random crash while testing, not able to reproduce it seems, just report the error I got printed on terminal, or disregard?
<arand> lfaraone: Hmm, my guess is that these crashes are simply down to general instability of etoys :/
<temugen> psusi: Alright you can bzr update and there'll be title tags placed on the blocks for you
<temugen> psusi: Chromium renders them on mouseover, I'd imagine/hope any other browser you use would too
<psusi> temugen: awesome... can't wait to get home and try it
<imbrandon> happy cinco de mayo
<lfaraone> arand: probably.
<lfaraone> arand: can you send me the log of the crash, by the way?
<lfaraone> (is it something like http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=507161 ?)
<ubottu> Debian bug 507161 in etoys "experiencing segmentation fault, no sound" [Normal,Open]
<lfaraone> arand: (if you could, set the "verification-needed" tag to "verification-done")
<ari-tczew> do we need to update-maintainer in SRU, if current maintainer is emailed @ubuntu.com ?
<ScottK> No
<geser> even if you tried to use update-maintainer, it would tell you that there is nothing to change
<RainCT> hey
<RainCT> What happened to GRUB in Lucid? :(
<sebner> RainCT: hmm?
<RainCT> sebner: there's no way I can get it to show up
<sebner> RainCT: no problems here
<imbrandon> rainct, its hidden ,hold shift when booting
<RainCT> Ah. Was trying like mad with escape.
<RainCT> Thanks
<imbrandon> and or modify /etc/default/grub and rerun update
<RainCT> Yeah well it's just in case I need a recovery shell
<RainCT> Eg. yesterday after installing the nvidia driver and rebooting Ubuntu would boot up to the point where X is supposed to start and there hard freeze with a black screen. Had to look for an USB to be able to edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf because I couldn't figure out how to get a shell otherwise
<RainCT> (although disabling the nvidia driver didn't fix it, I ended up reinstalling.. weird stuff :P)
<RainCT> anyway, /me stops whining. Thanks for the info imbrandon, sebner
<imbrandon> np
<sebner> RainCT: I didn't do anything but np :P
<RainCT> sebner: well, I guess I enjoy pinging you ^^
 * sebner throws rotten tomatoes at RainCT :P
<RainCT> sebner: btw, I've got 2x 24" monitors at work. they are awesome :P
<sebner> RainCT: pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
<sebner> RainCT: definately too good for you :P
<nhandler> ScottK: I'll take a look in a little bit
<geser> RainCT: a 3840x1200 dekstop or a 3840x1080 one?
<ScottK> nhandler: Thanks.
 * ajmitch only has 3360x1050 here :(
 * ScottK tosses another ping at jdong over clamav in the lucid-proposed queue.
<directhex> i have 3520x1200 at work
<ajmitch> I suppose I could count my laptop at 1600x900 as well, since I use x2x to use the desktop mouse & keyboard with it
<temugen> ScottK: I'm not sure if he can look at it for a while, he is literally buried in work right now :-/
<geser> I've only 3200x1200 (an old 17" with 1280x1024 and a 24" with 1920x1200)
<ScottK> temugen: I don't care if he looks at it, I just want him to approve it. ;-)
<jdong> ScottK: LMFAO
<jdong> ok ok before heading out for dinner, I'll take a peek
<jdong> what's the change?
<ScottK> jdong: Thanks the powerpc fix yesterday was incomplete.
<jdong> oh it says it
<ajmitch> who needs dinner when there are packages to look at?
<ScottK> I got the commit for the fix in there, but not the one with the fix for the fix so it would compile.
<jdong> oh okay, gotcha
<jdong> sounds reasonable to me, doesn't really change the intent of the debdiff
<ScottK> Thanks.
<jdong> ACK :)
<ScottK> jdong: Accepting.  Thank you and have a nice day.
<Bachstelze> [23:21] < ScottK> I got the commit for the fix in there, but not the one with the fix for the fix <= yo dawg, I heard u like fixes...
<jdong> ScottK: thank you!
<ScottK> Done.
<YokoZar> ScottK: I'm having a little trouble with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine1.2/+bug/571999  it doesn't make any sense to me.  Basically apt is refusing to upgrade when wine and wine1.2 are installed and it's throwing the error that wine1.2 conflicts with wine << 1.2 (which fails because both packages are 1.1.42).
<YokoZar> What doesn't make sense to me is that the conflicts line in debian/control doesn't say << 1.2 at all, but instead says << 1.1.36.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 571999 in wine1.2 "package wine1.2 (not installed) failed to install/upgrade when both wine and wine1.2 are installed" [High,Confirmed]
<YokoZar> wine1.2-dev has a (wrong) conflicts line that says wine-dev << 1.2, but that shouldn't matter since neither wine-dev or wine1.2-dev were installed in the logs linked there.  So I have no idea where this conflicts failing condition is coming from
<YokoZar> ScottK: anyway I could SRU the wine-dev 1.2 to 1.1.36 thing, but I don't think that would fix the actual problem (that now has 12+ duplicates)
<ajmitch> jdong: if you're still alive, do you think temugen's patch for mutt (bug 539348) is SRU-worthy? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 539348 in mutt "Previously tagged messages keep the associated background color until message is again displayed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/539348
<nigelbabu> Just a reminder, it's Patch Day. Anyone with some time to review patches and help get them in the right places is encouraged to stop by   #ubuntu-reviews and help out.
<nigelbabu> We're down to 91 bugs and really could use some help to bring it down to 0
<ScottK> YokoZar: You need to replace win << 1,2 also
<ScottK> win/wine
<YokoZar> ScottK: where?  debian/control under wine1.2 says << 1.1.36
<ScottK> YokoZar: Replaces?
<YokoZar> ScottK: ok you're right it needs to be higher version in Replaces
<YokoZar> ScottK: but that shouldn't generate that error either
<ScottK> If it doesn't replace the current wine package then it would explain exactly the error you're getting.
<YokoZar> A conflicts line with a different version?
<YokoZar> It's not supposed to conflict at all
<ScottK> But it does conflict, right?
 * ScottK quits looking and downloads.
<ScottK> looking/guessing
<YokoZar> Thanks by the way
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-06
<jdong> ajmitch: hmmmm hmmmmmmm, well I remember watching in amusment when temugen was figuring out what muttrc only changed colors of some emails...
<jdong> but I don't know how I can qualify that as serious data loss, denial of service, etc etc etc
<jdong> but at the same time the patch is so simple I can't fathom what'd go wrong (famous last words)....
<jdong> hmm....
<jdong> I'd say ask for a second opinion for the SRU
<jdong> if this were an esoteric Universe package I'd honestly say yes, but given that this is mutt, I'm a bit more careful.
<ajmitch> but given that it's a patch that's from upstream, and in lucid via debian?
<jdong> ajmitch: if I say yes, would you have my back if someone WTFs me? :)
<ajmitch> sure
 * ajmitch uses mutt every day, but not on karmic :)
<jdong> awesome :)
<jdong> mutt hasn't exactly changed in the last decade *ducks*
<temugen> there were a lot of other upstream patches, though :P Not sure what for since mutt is usually rock solid. I can't believe I actually ran into that coloring bug
<jdong> temugen: hahaha I'd rather not go candy-picking, let's just take care of ones people stumble into.
<temugen> jdong: I agree :)
<jdong> temugen: it's no fun to fix a bug until you can point and laugh at someone who was affected
<jdong> (KIDDING, kinda)
<jdong> (don't quote me exactly)
<temugen> quoted
<jdong> :)
 * ajmitch pastes that into the LP bug
<TheMuso> jdong: You still using a macbook?
<jdong> TheMuso: yes sir
<TheMuso> jdong: Are you aware that grub2 now allows an easier way of setting the intel SATA controller to AHCI?
<TheMuso> That is, if you still use a machine with an Intel SATA controller.
<jdong> TheMuso: oh, said Macbook with the Intel chipset has been retired to the folks
<jdong> TheMuso: but that's awesome to know
<jdong> TheMuso: new Macbook Pro has far more amusing gripes about jack sense and those fun topics :)
<TheMuso> jdong: Yeah, the setpci command/module allows things to be adjusted so.
<TheMuso> jdong: I am sure.
<jdong> TheMuso: ah, nice. Yay GRUB2
<jdong> TheMuso: have you ever been scared about all the functionality they're putting into bootloaders these days? :)
<TheMuso> jdong: No.
<jdong> TheMuso: 5 years ago it would've been a joke, but now.... how long will it be before my bootloader supports ssh'ing or a busybox shell?
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> Anyway, I now use grub2 for my 2008 mbp to enable AHCI.
<jdong> cool
<directhex> i wish grub2 would stop adding non-functional osx entries
<TheMuso> directhex: Yeah, we should try and address that somehow...
<jdong> I've never tried any of those entries but assumed they hilariously don't work.
<directhex> garbage IME
<directhex> i chain load grub2 from refit
<jdong> I don't like the switch of hotkeys either for bringing up the menu
<jdong> I was doing technical review for a new edition of a Ubuntu book...
<jdong> and now there's a hilarious number of "if you're using Legacy GRUB.... if you're using GRUB2....."
<RAOF> jdong: Yeah, they hilariously don't work.
<jdong> whoo! hilarious! :)
<directhex> did anyone see my tinkering?
<imbrandon> what tinkering ?
<RAOF> The themeing tinkering?
<directhex> imbrandon, http://imgur.com/AHlSI
 * imbrandon looks
<directhex> RAOF, precisely
<imbrandon> directhex: grub2 ?
<directhex> imbrandon, aye
<imbrandon> nice, i was tinking with some animated plymoth things
<imbrandon> untill i unterly broke my booting
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> should have done it in a VM
<imbrandon> directhex: isnt grub2 hidden by default in lucid though ?
<directhex> imbrandon, yeah, unless you re-enable it, or have multiple OSes
<mannyv> what would be the new version  for an SRU on opendchub 0.8.0-5?
<imbrandon> directhex: :)
<directhex> mannyv, you generally wouldn't SRU directly to lucid, you'd have a fixed version in maverick
<mannyv> directhex, there is an exploit in opendchub 0.8.2 that will give a shell, in 0.8.0 it will not give a shell but it does crash the deamon
<directhex> mannyv, have you filed a security bug? that's a good start
<ScottK> With a patch is even better.
<mannyv> its been fixed upstream, and in sqeeze and I wanted to try brining the fix into lucid
<mannyv> maverick should be fine because the patch will be autosynced
<ScottK> Does the new upstream release just fix this issue or does it include other stuff too?
<mannyv> ScottK it is a new version, moves from 0.8.0 to 0.8.2
<ScottK> How about 0.8.1 to 0.8.2?
<ScottK> For a post release update we need just the fix for the security issue.
<mannyv> ScottK, I don't see a 0.8.1 either in LP or BTS
<mannyv> so should I will file a bug report with the patch and a schroot test build/install against lucid?
<ScottK> mannyv: How about upstream?
<ScottK> Yes.  That would be great.
<mannyv> ok i will do that then come back =)
<mannyv> I still dont quite get what you are asking about 0.8.1
<imbrandon> we try to make sru's as little as possible, only fixing the issues, new versions are fro -backports normaly
<imbrandon> but if its security its a whole nother ball game
<imbrandon> speaking of ball games, nixternal, you watchin the sox and royals playin ?
<psusi> temugen, I can't get a mouseover to work on that svg, though I can see the file names when I look at the raw svg
<jdong> psusi: browser?
<psusi> jdong, chromium or firefox
<jdong> interesting...
<jdong> which chromium?
 * jdong grumbles about more browser fun
<psusi> didn't know there was more than one
<jdong> psusi: ah so many builds of chromium
<temugen> hehe my chromium renders it on mouseover :-/
<jdong> stable (windows-only), beta, dev, SVN nightlies, ... ... ...
<jdong> I'm guessing temugen runs the dev channel
<jdong> psusi: add-apt-repository ppa:chromium-daily/dev?
<imbrandon> google-chrome ftw ;)
<psusi> hrm... ok
<temugen> psusi: view-source:http://svg-whiz.com/svg/Tooltip2.svg or you can add that <script> tag to the svg
<temugen> that will use the title tag that's already on all of the blocks and give you a big and pretty tooltip :)
 * jdong can't wait for the HTML5 browser disparities to start happening
<jdong> and wow what's up with the PPA lagtime
<jdong> (err, OT)
<temugen> psusi: or I can have it autoadd the script for you, but it seems like something that the SVG renderer should take care of and not us
 * jdong semi-sarcastically brings up the idea of cashing in LP karma points for buildscores
<psusi> I'm not quite sure what to do with that
<temugen> psusi: the script tag?
<psusi> yea
<psusi> cut everything in the script tag and put it where in the svg?
<temugen> psusi: http://pastebin.com/6G0CpedZ You should be able to copy and paste that just above the first <path element
<temugen> I should probably test it out first to not send you on a goose chase :)
<psusi> didn't work... hrm...
<temugen> psusi: yea that's going to take a little more work :-/ hang on
<temugen> looking into it
<psusi> k
<jdong> psusi: or you can just use a shinier newer chromium....
 * jdong has no idea what explains the same software not working on two machines the same way :)
<psusi> ohh?  let me update
<jdong> psusi: yeah that'd be my guess to the difference between your setups.
<jdong> plus chromium is one of those things that does awesomely improve overnight (tm), running the dev channel on Linux is really nice.
<temugen> psusi: but if not, I just got the big tooltips working too (3 things to add, or I can add them in the template and you can bzr up, your choice)
<psusi> ok, upgraded to the new chromium, still no popup
<temugen> psusi: it's like a tooltip, you have to let the mouse sit there for a second
<temugen> but I assume you tried that already
<temugen> so I'll start adding the script to the template
<psusi> that other example page worked
<psusi> chromium sure does burn up a lot of cpu whenever I move the mouse over this thing though
<temugen> psusi: yes it does :P ok, you can update. I really prefer to keep this up to the renderer in the future, though
<temugen> and note collision detection/whatever still burns through a core on my machine
<wgrant> jdong: Er, the PPA build queues appear to all be under 90 minutes. Am I missing something?
<wgrant> jdong: That's still bad, but not as utterly deplorable and inexcusable as it has been for the last couple of weeks.
<psusi> there we go!
<jdong> wgrant: oh is it still 90 minutes?
<jdong> wgrant: I was uploading last week to 2 of my PPA's and the builds got estimated for 3 days and built in 2 or so
<wgrant> It should be down to 0 soon.
<jdong> wgrant: and I noticed https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/dev still has packages waiting for build?
<jdong> uploaded 33hrs ago
<wgrant> It's still processing the backlog from the buildd-manager breakage this morning.
<wgrant> Hmm.
<jdong> but ah, glad to hear the queue is clearing up
<wgrant> Oh.
<wgrant> i386 is still well behind.
<jdong> "start in 9 hours"
<jdong> ok
<wgrant> I guess there are tonnes of superseded dailies still to go, so it won't really be that long.
<wgrant> In a couple of months the dailies will be shuffled off into their own build pool, so they will disrupt and be disrupted less significantly.
<jdong> ah okay, cool
<psusi> son of a bitch!
<psusi> they are bloody symlinks ;)
<temugen> psusi: OH DAMMIT
<temugen> *headdesk*
<psusi> the file names listed in ureadahead --dump are symlinks, and the files they point to are left on the outer areas of the disk
<psusi> hehe
<psusi> I optimized the symlink instead of what it points to
<jdong> HAHAHAHAHAHA
<temugen> HAHAHHA
<psusi> lol
<jdong> WHOOOOOOOO!
<jdong> XD
<temugen> CLASSIC!
<ajmitch> obvious fix is "Don't Do That"?
 * psusi searches for ls flag to follow symlinks
<jdong> temugen: maybe it should upon encountering a symlink list.append(mentioned file)
<lifeless> psusi: realpath ?
<jdong> temugen: and ok actually getting ureadahead-like data on symlink (e.g. calling FIEMAP) is an exercise left to the reader.
<jdong> XD
<temugen> jdong: well this isn't a problem with the grapher since the grapher reads directly from ureadahead
<psusi> looks like I want ls -H
<psusi> now let me try again with a -H thrown in
<jdong> temugen: oh ureadahead gives the name of symlinks but actually reads the right files?
<temugen> jdong: that's what it sounds like
 * jdong slaps himself for doubting Keybuk.
<jdong> :)
<ScottK> jdong: Aren't you supposed to be studying or something?
<jdong> ScottK: gah, the downside of a multitasking laptop. Thanks mom!
<temugen> jdong: well, I'm not terribly certain actually...
<psusi> no, ureadahead reads the real file because that's what you get when you open() the symlink
<temugen> psusi: ok, that makes sense
<psusi> but it gives the symbolic name in the pack file, which I was running ls -i on to get the inode number
<temugen> *grin*
<psusi> and that got me the inode number of the link rather than what it pointed to
<temugen> yea
<temugen> well, you got half of the link types right!
<psusi> there, put THAT list in your defrag and smoke it
<psusi> hrm...
<temugen> psusi: hrm?
<psusi> the picture didn't change much...
<psusi> when it says at ##### what is that number?  the block number?
<psusi> OHH
<temugen> byte
<psusi> I need to rebuild the pack file ;)
<temugen> yes you do :P
<psusi> it's not checking their actual location, rather just going with the pack file
<temugen> yes exactly
<psusi> well, looking at it in debugfs, it certainly looks like this file is where it should be... guess I'll go reboot and rebuild the pack file, hehe
<psusi> now that is a thing of beauty
<psusi> and damnit, imageshack doesn't like .svg
<psusi> had to convert it to png... http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8039/afterl.png
<psusi> oh, and I think I found a bug in the sound system it booted too fast... only heard the last half of the startup sound
<psusi> like it started trying to play it before the sound card was fully initialized
<ScottK> I think we aren't going to slow the boot so you can hear the sound.
<psusi> lol... no, but it should wait to start playing the sound until it actually is initialized ;)
<psusi> http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2714/faldaralucid201005052.png
<psusi> looks like ureadahead is now spending half of its total execution time in the big open() hole.. need to get that fixed and oh boy, total time spent in ureadahead should be less than 2 seconds
<psusi> oh yea, forgot to throw my modified ureadahead into the mix...
<psusi> very nice.... getting there now... just a little bit further to the 10 second mark
<psusi> umm.... whoa...
<psusi> I actually got it booting faster from the old rotational drives than my new ssd
<psusi> that's.... fubar
<pace_t_zulu> hey guys i am trying to build gcc-4.2.3 on lucid ... i get the following error
<pace_t_zulu> pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: gcc-4.3-base which is a virtual package.
<pace_t_zulu> obviously i am using pbuilder
<pace_t_zulu> i can understand how a depend that depends on a later version of the package being built might be an issue
<nixternal> imbrandon: I hate the sox!
<ScottK> lucas: I think now'ish would be a good time for a baseline rebuild on Maverick.  It looks like the toolchain is mostly in place.  Any chance of that soon?  Will you be at UDS again?
<imbrandon> nixternal: lol
<psusi> there we go... keybuck was right... ureadahead was in hdd mode... had to fix that and now bootchart shows 5.1 seconds ;)
<ajmitch> psusi: 5.1 from grub to desktop?
<psusi> ajmitch, that's the time on the top of the bootchart... I think it stops counting once you log in
<ajmitch> not too bad anyway, I guess
<psusi> oddly, it was 5.1 seconds the first time, then I turned on auto login and tried again and it went to 7 seconds
<psusi> I am GOING to get it down under 10 seconds on the rotational disks ;)
 * ajmitch would be happy to see < 30 seconds some days
<ajmitch> though I don't run bootchart, so I can't really tell what the actual time is
<psusi> you don't get that now?  outch...
<psusi> apt-get install bootchart ;)
<ajmitch> from 0.000000 to seeing fglrx spam in /var/log/dmesg is 38 seconds, I think
<psusi> now I need to go file a bug about the login sound playing before the hardware is initialized, hehe
<psusi> omg, do you not have ureadahead enahbled?
 * psusi doesn't use fglrx
<ajmitch> this is solely going from /var/log/dmesg, assuming that it's seconds in the left-most column
<psusi> yea, that's the kernel monotonic time
<ajmitch> so I don't know how much I can trust the numbers
<ajmitch> [    3.986695] EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode.
<ajmitch> [   36.602443] udev: starting version 151
<ajmitch> when it has lines like that (30-second jump there?)
<psusi> whoa
<psusi> this is lucid right?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> it doesn't really make sense to me, and overall the laptop doesn't feel too slow
<psusi> ohh... laptop... SLOW hd
<ajmitch> ureadahead is installed, fwiw :)
<ajmitch> probably 5400 RPM, 320GB
<psusi> but with a good defrag, and ureadahead, should be able to get down to ~10 seconds ;)
<ajmitch> where good implies stable & tested :)
<psusi> hehe
<ajmitch> you need to get your crack into maverick soon
<ajmitch> also, still on ext3 here, no ext4
<psusi> ahh, that's another reason
<psusi> upgrade to ext4
<ajmitch> which to do properly, involves moving all data off, mkfs, and move it back on?
<ScottK> Ah, the fun of moving back to syncing from Unstable.
<psusi> ureadahead gets slowed down by indirect blocks on ext3.. extents for the winz
 * ScottK went from 4 pending Universe merges to 25.
 * psusi smacks xchat for autocorrecting his use of "teh"
<ajmitch> ScottK: MoM is running?
<ScottK> ajmitch: Apparently.
<psusi> ajmitch, naw, you can use tune2fs to enable most of the new features and get most of the benefits... especially if you follow it with a chattr -R +e
<ajmitch> psusi: nice, I might grab a live CD & try it out
<psusi> basically the only thing you can't flip on is flex_bg, which just makes fsck a bit faster
 * ajmitch doesn't seem to have many merges
<ajmitch> and it looks like we need to go through & clean out the old comments from last time about sync bugs, etc
<ScottK> Feel free to take libxml2.  I'm probably the last person here who should be caring about the Gnome xml library.
<temugen> psusi: heck yes!
<psusi> ajmitch, actually you don't need a livecd
<ajmitch> I think I even uploaded that at one point in the distant past
<psusi> ajmitch, just flip on the bits with tune2fs and force a fsck on reboot
<psusi> temugen, eh?
<ajmitch> psusi: that sounds too easy
<temugen> psusi: I just got a change to look at the fragraph and the bootchart; awesome job!
<temugen> chance*
<jdong> psusi: *WOW* impressive graph!
<temugen> psusi: are you moving symlinks to the front as well?
<psusi> jdong, which one?
<jdong> psusi: your fragraph
<psusi> temugen, no... since unless they are very long, they don't actually have any blocks
<jdong> psusi: now interesting question: What if you turn off ureadahead?
<psusi> jdong, ohh, right
<jdong> psusi: or.... replace it with a simple dd from start_block to end_block of=/dev/null?
<psusi> jdong, then it won't speed up your boot? ;)
<jdong> psusi: but your files are already so closely packed.
<psusi> jdong, basically that's what ureadahead should result in...
<jdong> psusi: butt what about your open() overhead?
<psusi> jdong, yea... so ureadahead should be able to slurp them up real fast
<jdong> psusi: or.... what about backgrounding ureadahead?
<jdong> psusi: tricking it to think that it's a SSD
<psusi> jdong, going to rework it to not bother open()ing at all
<jdong> psusi: but won't the next time the file need to be open()ed the same overhead be incurred once?
<psusi> naw, backgrounding not good since you will get out of order reads while other things try to access stuff
<jdong> psusi: will seeking around that tiny ring be that big of a deal?
<jdong> psusi: your OS and disk firmware both have readahead/elevators ;-)
<psusi> I need to modify the tracer to map the raw disk blocks each file uses, then append the directories those files live in to the list
<psusi> then at boot time, call readahead() on the raw block device to slurp up the directories, AND the files
<psusi> all in one gigantic sequential read
<psusi> rather, right now it maps the raw blocks to figure out the order in which the files should be read
<psusi> I just need to use the raw address to pass to readahead() on the raw block device during boot instead of passing the file relative addresses to readahead() on the file
<psusi> but yea, you still want the directory blocks read too so that when the file is really open()ed it is there... so need to get the tracer to add the directories themselves to the pack
<psusi> then it should be about 1-2 seconds of pegging the disk as max, and done.
 * psusi beats the hell out of lp
<psusi> any idea how to search for a bug that mentions foo AND bar?  not OR?
<psusi> neither foo AND bar nor +foo +bar work
<ScottK> psusi: Google.
<temugen> psusi: so how exactly are the symlinks laid out in ext3/4? I thought they were generic files unlike hardlink inode additions
<psusi> temugen, ext2+ stores the link destination in the inode if it is short enough to fit, no external blocks needed
<temugen> psusi: ah, awesome! I didn't know that. thank you :)
<psusi> think it was 30 or 40 characters
<ScottK> YokoZar: Would you please look at Spring and either upload a merge or request a sync.
<YokoZar> ScottK: will do
<ScottK> Thanks.
<persia> Or better, go push anything outstanding into DG VCS, request an upload and *then* request a sync.
<gladk> Hi, all
<gladk> Sorry, I am new in packaging, and I am a little embarrassed with a very short debian/rules file, which was created by dh_make. Can anybody give me a link, where I can see an example of this new debian/rules? Thank you
<RAOF> gladk: That'd be a debhelper 7 rules file?  It's pretty awesome, and, as you can see, pretty short :).
<gladk> Right!
<gladk> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-defaultrules it is here described
<gladk> but no examples
<gladk> all faqs, what I have found are with long rules file
<RAOF> So, debian/rules is Just A Makefileâ¢ with some defined rules.  The dh7 mini-rules file takes advantage of fallback rules.
<RAOF> The â%:â rule is âI'm a rule that matches anything.  If you can't find a more specific rule, call meâ.
<arand> Is the "Packaging and MOTU Q&A" session happening?
<RAOF> In the mini rules file, that just calls âdh $@â.  The $@ is a special variable, which contains the target of whatever the rule should be.
<micahg> arand: 1 more hour
<RAOF> So, in this makefile, when you call âdebian/rules buildâ, make goes âcan I find a build: rule?  No.  Can I find a fallback that would match build?  Yeah, the %: rule.  That tells me to call âdh buildââ
<persia> arand: In -classroom?  If it's scheduled now, the instructor may be busy: try asking questions here.
<micahg> arand: or rather 40 minutes
<arand> micahg: Ah, ( right.. UTC != BST)
<dholbach> good morning
<micahg> dholbach: do you have a few minutes to chat about daily builds?
<dholbach> no, I'm sorry
<dholbach> but later on we can - I have not much experience with the topic yet
<dholbach> there might be others who know much more about it than I do
<micahg> dholbach: I saw you scheduled the blueprint for the daily builds discussion for lucid
<dholbach> james_w for example, but I guess he's not up yet
<dholbach> micahg: yes, I need to prepare myself for these
<micahg> dholbach: not about making them, about integrating into Ubuntu workflow
<dholbach> yes, the idea being that lots of teams benefit from them already, so we try the spread the word about them and see if we can improve things, etc.
<dholbach> I haven't investigated the procedure much yet
<micahg> dholbach: well, we were thinking of building a release type picker for mozilla products (daily, beta, stable) and I was wondering if this is something to discuss as a global thing at your session or if I should make a separate session
<dholbach> micahg: I think we should talk about it there
<dholbach> micahg: it'd be great to hear more about best practices and this seems to work well for you guys
<micahg> dholbach: k, then I'll plan to attend your session then and bring it up
<micahg> dholbach: thanks
<dholbach> micahg: thank YOU :)
<YokoZar> ScottK: did you have any insight into the Wine issue I showed you earlier?
 * imbrandon wakes up
<imbrandon> i hate it when i only sleep for 3 hours and then wake, makes for a long day
<imbrandon> moins dholbach
<dholbach> hi imbrandon
<ajmitch> hi dholbach, imbrandon :)
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<imbrandon> ajmitch: havent heard anything from "jak" yet :(
<ajmitch> np
<ajmitch> there's no rush there
<imbrandon> oh i know, was more to let you know, i'm the impatient one :)
<imbrandon> i still havent touched software-center though and am hesitant to put up a "repo" to test without it
<imbrandon> has openweek already started today ?
<imbrandon> bzr lp-open ?
<ajmitch> :0:> bzr help lp-open
<ajmitch> Purpose: Open a Launchpad branch page in your web browser.
<ajmitch> Usage:   bzr launchpad-open [LOCATION]
<imbrandon> hrm, what if it wasent a on lp to begin with ?
<ajmitch> this is for working with ubuntu package branches
<ajmitch> if it's not on LP, you don't need to do that to submit merge proposals :)
<ajmitch> since you'd just be pushing a new branch
<imbrandon> guess it would work for things that have upstream mirrored on LP too
<ajmitch> if the branches have a common ancestor to merge
<persia> it's Patch Day!  Anyone with time to help review patches, please come to #ubuntu-reviews and join in!
 * imbrandon will come review some in a few, goona check whats going on in -classroom incase he is intrested
<persia> Great!
<Laney> persia: please add me to ubuntu-sponsors
<toabctl> i want to build modemmanager from the git-repository. i cloned the repository and copied the debian/ dir from modemmanager-0.3 to the git-reprository. if i try to build with "dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot" i got the following error:config.status: error: cannot find input file: `po/Makefile.in.in'
<toabctl> make: *** [config.status] Fehler 1
<toabctl>  
<toabctl> any ideas?
<imbrandon> toabctl: is there an autoget.sh ? rcs checkouts are normaly not prepared to build right away without some prep work, like autogen and/or configure
<imbrandon> depending on the type of source
<toabctl> imbrandon, yes, there's a autogen.sh
<imbrandon> run it, then try to build
<toabctl> imbrandon, should i first execute ./autogen.sh and then try to build the package?
<imbrandon> yes, since you did a checkout instead of using the upstream tarbal
<persia> Laney: done.  Thanks!
<toabctl> imbrandon, now it works. thanks!
<imbrandon> np
<Laney> cheers!
<toabctl> next question is how to name the package in debian/changelog . it's a git-checkout so i should mention this in the version? is there a version-name-guide anywhere?
<persia> There isn't a version guide.
<persia> Most people tend to do things like 1.2.3+gitYYMMDD or similar.
<persia> Where 1.2.3 is the last released version.
<toabctl> persia, ok. thanks.
<toabctl> persia: and then without 0ubuntu1 or something like this?
<persia> Oh, the stuff after the '-' is the same.
<toabctl> would be "modemmanager (0.3+git20100506) lucid; urgency=low" correct=
<persia> So 1.2.3+git20100506-0ubuntu1 would work.
<toabctl> ah.ok
<imbrandon> and your new tar you carefuly craft would be modemanager_0.3+git20100506.orig.tar.gz for version modemanager (0.3+git20100506-0ubuntu1~tobactl1) lucid;
<imbrandon> :P
<Rhonda> bug #576287 needs someone from the ubuntu-sponsors team to look at it :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576287 in wesnoth-1.8 "Sync wesnoth-1.8 1:1.8.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576287
<sebner> Rhonda: depending on how long you can wait :P
<toabctl> how can i configure if modemmanager starts or not? when i kill it, it will be restarted every time. i want to start it manually with the --debug option.
<Rhonda> sebner: Not for you to be approved into the team. ;)
 * persia notes that sebner *is* a sponsor
<Rhonda> oh
<Rhonda> I can be your Debian sponsor, sebner :P
<persia> sebner: So, are you looking at that (or will you soonish?), or ought someone else?
<sebner> persia: I'm willing to look but I can't create a maverick  pbuilder :(
<sebner> Rhonda: ;D
<persia> sebner: What's not working?
<Rhonda> sebner: What's the problem?
<sebner> persia: I: Installing core packages...
<sebner> W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/build/2062/. dpkg --force-depends --install
<sebner> E: debootstrap failed
<Rhonda> Can you create a lucid pbuilder, do a pbuilder --login --save-after-login and change the sources.list?
 * persia tries a schroot build
 * sebner tries
<Rhonda> When I can't bootstrap directly I usually take the chroot from the former release, copy it and change the sources.list and then do a regular --update
<sebner> Rhonda: well, I never had problems, OTOH I never created a pbuilder that soon in the dev cycle (toolchain not ready etc)
<ogra> persia, are you aware that http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ still points to lucid ?
<ogra> someone should probably change the default :)
<persia> Why?
<ogra> because maverick is of intrest now ?
<persia> Until the archive opens, there's little point, and it's better to focus on SRUs.  http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/maverick.html is boring.
<persia> Shortly after archive-open, all the lucid FTBFS packages will get retried, and that page will be interesting again.
<persia> And then it makes sense to change the default.
<persia> So, unless something strange happens, the default will probably change sometime this weekend.
<persia> But needs stable toolchain first, which, if nothing else, probably needs a fix for eglibc on armel :)
<persia> (but that''s already being investigated by the toolchain folks)
<persia> Oh, and gcc on ia64 would be helpful :)  I'm not sure why kdeplasma-addons was tried: seems early for that.
<l3on> Hi all... I'm trying to packaging a lib for ubuntu (karmic) but I have some problems with SHLIB in amd64 (i386 is fine). There are known issue for SHLIB in amd64?
<imbrandon> persia: you are a schroot user correct ?
<persia> l3on: Not for me.  Could you be more verbose?
<persia> imbrandon: Yes.
<persia> sebner: My maverick schroot created fine.  Maybe try a different debootstrap-mirror?
<sebner> persia: bah, kk. Will try later
<imbrandon> persia: i'm trying to get it to export DISPLAY=:1 on schroot login, i cant figure out a way to acatualy make it work, do you auto set your display for X programs ?
<persia> imbrandon: Have you tried with just `schroot -p ...` ?
<imbrandon> yes :(
<l3on> persia: yes of course... take a look at build logs here -> https://launchpad.net/~l3on/+archive/dtn2/+packages
<persia> How didn't that work?
<l3on> persia: in particular liboasys
<persia> l3on: oasys?
<imbrandon> persia: i';m not sure, probably because outside the chroot i the DISPLAY is not :1
<imbrandon> and -p preserves the env
<l3on> persia: yes
<persia> imbrandon: How about `DISPLAY=:1 schroot -p ...`
<imbrandon> that was the next step, then there was putting "export DISPLAY=:1" inside a script and calling schroot /path/to/script/inside/chroot
<imbrandon> also failed to set it ( or even run the script )
<persia> l3on: So, which variable isn't being set, and how?
<l3on> persia: in Makefile I see this:
<persia> imbrandon: OK.  If you set DISPLAY=:1 manually inside the schroot, does it work?
<sebner> persia: same failure with lucid, I guess my connection is bad as it failed to retrieve some packages
<persia> sebner: Aha.  That makes sense.  Best of luck!
<carstenh> imbrandon: DISPLAY=xy schroot -c sid -p works
<imbrandon> persia: yes
<imbrandon> carstenh: hum ...
<l3on> persia: this is the Makefile -> http://dtn.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/dtn/oasys/raw-file/375fcbb4b5c4/Makefile
<l3on> persia: look for "installlibs"
<l3on> ehm... installlib
<persia> l3on: So, how is SHLIB_EXT defined?
<carstenh> imbrandon: though I'm still using 1.2.x, newer version might behave different
<l3on> persia: this is realy funny. The configure script could enable-shlibs, but there is no effect. SHLIB_EXT is defined in Rules.make as "" (null). This in amd64, in i386 instead all works fine, and I have shlibs without do give to configure --enable-shlibs option.
<imbrandon> persia / carstenh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/428866/
<persia> l3on: You may want to add a bunch of echo statements, and then compare the two build logs carefully.  Something is arch-specific, and it's specific to that code.
<sebner> persia: Rhonda , DktrKranz is willing to do it after lunch :)
<l3on> persia: I'm not so expert in packaging, have you 5 minutes trying to find out the problem?
<imbrandon> persia: we ever hear anymore from the fella doing the linux-rt stuff? i offered to review his stuff , gave him my email and such and never heard anything yet
<persia> l3on: It would take me ~20 to prepare the environment to compare.  You needn't be an expert: just compare the build logs side-by-side until you find a difference.  Then add `echo ${SHLIB_EXT}` in a few places to try to narrow down where it is/isn't being set.
<persia> abogani: imbrandon is looking for you ^^
<l3on> Ok persia :)
<persia> l3on: Once you find the part that is different, come back, and we can probably help you find a way to fix it.
<imbrandon> persia: thanks
<carstenh> imbrandon: schroot has a debug option
<persia> imbrandon: I can't replicate (and I've tried lots of different ways).  http://paste.ubuntu.com/428871/ demonstrates my experience.
<imbrandon> carstenh: k i'll look for it now, i have to run for a few hours ( maybe shorter ) thanks for the input though ( its anoying to export the display every time , lol )
<persia> imbrandon: You might want to look at dropping some scripts in /etc/schoot/ then :)
<imbrandon> persia: k, might be something buggy with my homedir mounts too, since i have the same use and home inside and out of the chroot so .Xauthorty might be finky
<imbrandon> s/use/user
<persia> imbrandon: Play with echo first.  Once you are sure you're setting the variables you need, then try to use them :)
<imbrandon> yup yup
<imbrandon> k got to run, thanks for all the great pointers
<imbrandon> bbiab
<lucas> ScottK: I will be at UDS. will do a rebuild during it
<sebner> Rhonda: bahhhhh, 1.8.1 not in unstable ... *waiting*
<ricotz> Laney, hello, any response on the docky SRU?
<sebner> hio ricotz :)
<ricotz> sebner, hi
<sebner> ricotz: .3 will be bugfix only I guess, if important stuff I guess there is no problem with a SRU
<ricotz> sebner, yes, 2.0.x are bugfix-only releases and indeed it includes important fixes ;-)
<sebner> ricotz: heh, I know, I uploaded 2.0.1 :P
<sebner> ricotz: btw, suggestion: Theme changes should include also the docky dock icon, I want to have the blue one, not the brown one but I don't want to use clearlooks theme in ubuntu :P
<ricotz> sebner, hopefully directhex finishes 2.0.3.1 soon ;-) and an SRU member confirms it for lucid :P, until the same game for 2.0.4 ;-)
<directhex> huh?
<directhex> oh, docky
<directhex> fine fine
 * sebner waves at directhex :D
<ricotz> directhex, hi, yes, docky git tree seems to be ready ;-)
<sebner> ricotz: git tree? Our git tree is up to date (2.0.2) but you use bzr on LP, or am I missing something?
<directhex> updaing my pbuilder
<ricotz> sebner, http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-cli-apps/packages/docky.git;a=shortlog
<sebner> ricotz: yeah, that's our git tree ;)
<ricotz> sebner, the docky icon is colored with the selection color to better blend in, not sure we gonna change that, it is possible to change the color with a gconf-key
<sebner> ricotz: ohh, I totally missed that 2.0.3.1 is already out :D why the .1 btw?
 * sebner searches gconf key
<sebner> ricotz: value 187 is brown? What's blue then?
<ricotz> sebner, there was a problem with 2.0.3 release
<sebner> kk
<ricotz> sebner, this value shifts your selection color, so you need to try
 * sebner tries
<sebner> ricotz: with clearlook the value is 7 but it doesn't change when using my theme :(
<directhex> sebner, you want to update to .1 before sponsoring i guess
<directhex> oh, Laney did it already
<directhex> man, i'm just crap at computers
<sebner> didrocks: yep, Laney is our speedy gonzales :D
<ricotz> sebner, try a negative value
<sebner> @directhex
<sebner> ricotz: no change
<directhex> test building
<directhex> slowly
<sebner> directhex: lucky you, I can't even set-up a pbuilder Â¬_Â¬
<ricotz> sebner, we dont have gconf live updates, so docky should not run while change values manually - http://wiki.go-docky.com/index.php?title=GConf_Settings
<sebner> ricotz: ohoho!
 * sebner kills docky
 * sebner hugs ricotz :D
<sebner> ricotz: works now, had to use a negative value though
<ricotz> directhex, how strict is the debian cli policy since docky is started with "exec mono ..." instead of "exec /usr/bin/cli ..."?
<ricotz> sebner, good :)
<sebner> ricotz: well, we can patch it (or are we doing it already?)
<ricotz> sebner, it is not patched yet, just a thought
<sebner> ricotz: policy is law :P http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ch-appendix.html#s-wrapper-script-example
<directhex> ricotz, it's not something i ever remember to check
<directhex> meebey on the other hand may notice and grump at you
<sebner> heh
<abogani> imbrandon: I'm just start to work on linux-rt for Maverick. :-)
<Rhonda> sebner: What, not in unstable?? Is.
<Rhonda> sebner: What is http://packages.debian.org/unstable/wesnoth-1.8 otherwise?
<sebner> Rhonda: bah, QA site sucks :P
<Rhonda> â¦ or did you fall into the pit of the different source package again?
<sebner> Rhonda: my tools pulled 1.6.5 though :P
<Laney> ricotz: is there already another version planned?
<Rhonda> sebner: wesnoth != wesnoth-1.8
<Laney> I don't want to keep updating lucid all the time
<sebner> Rhonda: ohohoo! You have to tell me such things :P
<sebner> Laney: 0.3.4 says LP
<Rhonda> sebner: The bugreport said wesnoth-1.8. I thought it would be useful to put it in there. :P
<Laney> we don't routinely update
<sebner> Rhonda: /me = stupid, 300 MB?!?!?!?!?!?
<sebner> Rhonda: bah, *that* will take some time
<ricotz> Laney, hi, there is a milestone set, but without plans to release
<Rhonda> sebner: Good art isn't for free. ;)
<Laney> ok then
<Laney> ricotz: you can fix the wrapper upstream, no hurry
<sebner> Laney: btw, imho the last remaining bits for pinta is copyright. Bareftp is more urgent now so you would have to wait 1-2 days if you don't want to do it
<Laney> what do you want to do with the copyright?
<sebner> Rhonda: bah :P
<sebner> Laney: update
<Rhonda> sebner: No, for real. But yes, the music is most of the size, images are also a fair amount.
<sebner> Laney: maaaaaaaany new files, http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-cli-apps/packages/pinta.git;a=commitdiff;h=1f2ff34f970d97d2df9e776e80efccba49fa660a
<ricotz> Laney, sorry, the wrapper wont be updated, we not only support debian
<sebner> ricotz: then we have to patch it
<Laney> what's the problem?
<sebner> Rhonda: well, takes some time time
<Laney> sebner: you can do it, i'm not interested in that
<sebner> Laney: I thought you :P lazy Laney
<sebner> *so
<Laney> well they should be covered by the default
<sebner> Laney: new author ;)
<Laney> like i said, not fussed
<Laney> :)
 * sebner throws rotten tomatoes at Laney :P
<Breaking_Pitt> Hello guys
<Breaking_Pitt> I have a lot of packages to do so every time I try a new one it comes with a different error
<Breaking_Pitt> how can I avoid this error file-in-unusual-dir usr/local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/
<POX> Breaking_Pitt: --prefix=/usr
<POX> but first of all, you have to use python2.5 from package, not the local one
<Breaking_Pitt> sorry POX ?
<POX> Breaking_Pitt: Please paste output of: ls -la `which python2.5`
<Breaking_Pitt> one moment please
<Breaking_Pitt> POX -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1175796 2010-01-24 17:09 /usr/bin/python2.5
<POX> please pastebin your debian/rules
<Breaking_Pitt> ok
<l3on> persia: hi... around? :D
<Breaking_Pitt> POX I have decided that I will buil it from scrach when you want to build a package for a library using dh_make you select single binary or library?
<POX> Breaking_Lunch: depends on the type of package :P, `man dh_make` should have some info about it (I don't use dh_make), for python modules it will be single binary most probably (I'd use py2dsc instead of dh_make, though)
<ScottK> lucas: Glad to hear you are coming.  It'll be good to see you again.
<ScottK> YokoZar: No.  Got distracted.
<philps> anyone know how to programmatically determine what disks are usb flash drives
<philps> or maybe this is the wrong room.  let me know.
<ScottK> It may be that #ubuntu-app-devel (or something close to that) is better.
<philps> sounds good
<lavlu> hi, i want to submit one package to ubuntu repository. the .deb package is fully functional. install fine and work fine. what should i do now ?
<ScottK> !REVU | lavlu
<ubottu> lavlu: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<lavlu> thanks ScottK
<ScottK> yw
<sebner> persia: around for a SRU question?
<ScottK> nhandler: Did you get a chance to look at that patch?
<sebner> There is a crasher bug in bareftp 0.3.1 (which we have in lucid),  0.3.2 is bugfix only except translation updates, new 0.3.3 fixes this crasher bug but has also new features, what do you suggest?
<sebner> cherry pick the crasher bug fix or go with 0.3.2+fix?
<lfaraone> sebner: what sort of bugs?
<sebner> lfaraone: http://pastebin.com/imE1q9Ux
<ScottK> sebner: I suggest just the crash fix.
<sebner> ScottK: sure?
<lfaraone> sebner: "    + Improved drag'n drop. More user friendly on multiple selection" reads like a new feature.
<ScottK> Minor bug fixes don't fit SRU criteria.
<sebner> lfaraone: that's a bug for me :P
<sebner> ScottK: aye aye then
<lfaraone> How should a debian package handle depending on iceweasel? (should it be "iceweasel | firefox | abrowser" ?)
<micahg> lfaraone: yes
<micahg> lfaraone: be careful with version requirements of firefox if appropriate
<ScottK> micahg: Why can't firefox provide iceweasel?
<ScottK> No versioned provides would be one good reason, bit it'd save a lot of modifying packages.
<micahg> ScottK: That's a good question, I defer to asac or chrisccoulson
<ScottK> OK.
<micahg> speaking of asac: (10:05:39 AM) ScottK: micahg: Why can't firefox provide iceweasel?
<chrisccoulson> i don't see any reason why firefox couldn't provide iceweasel
<ScottK> That would certainly cut down on the number of packages that need merging.
<micahg> chrisccoulson: should I add that to the general team discussion for UDS?
<chrisccoulson> micahg - yeah, can do
<micahg> chrisccoulson: just subscribed you also
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<Breaking_Pitt> I'm getting this error some advice? make[1]: *** No rule to make target `clean'.  Stop.
<lfaraone> ScottK: maybe I'm missing something: how can we SRU something if it can't be fixed in the development release until maverick opens up?
<ScottK> lfaraone: pitti will pocket copy from lucid-updates to maverick when it does.
<Breaking_Pitt> I'm getting this make[1]: *** No rule to make target `clean'.  Stop.
<Breaking_Pitt> some advice please?
<ScottK> You need to have that target.  Why make thinks you don't is impossible to know without seeing the makefile in question.
<Breaking_Pitt> is the debian/rules created by default by the dpkg-buildpakage
<Breaking_Pitt> and has a clean: entry
<Breaking_Pitt> ScottK, http://pastebin.com/94kAsFCe this is my rules file
<ScottK> That's a fragment of your debian/rules file and not your debian/rules file.
<Breaking_Pitt> ok here it goes again http://pastebin.com/ksyGQ8DE
<Breaking_Pitt> ScottK, can you see something wrong?
<ScottK> Sorry, I'm tied up with something else ATM.
<Breaking_Pitt> ok
<alket> Hi
<alket> the current version of Bluefish in Ubuntu Universe is 1.*.* but in 15 March Blufish 2.0 came out
<alket> when it is going to be an update ?
<alket> ?
<alket> anyone ?
<astraljava> Might take a while. Debian unstable still has 1.0.7, so syncing to Maverick won't make it. Someone should package the latest version.
<alket> astraljava thank you for response
<astraljava> np :)
<mannyv> I have had a go at my first potential security update if anyone has a moment would you mind providing feedback? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opendchub/+bug/576507
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576507 in opendchub "OpenDcHub 0.8.1 Remote Code Execution Exploit" [Undecided,New]
<persia> mannyv: For security-specific feedback (and procedures), #ubuntu-hardened may be more appropriate. (although I'm looking now)
<mannyv> persia, ok thanks
<persia> I'm not 100% sure, but I *think* you want -5ubuntu1 for maverick and -5ubuntu0.1 for lucid.
<persia> Also, I *think* you want to target lucid-security
<kees> both true
<persia> The patch itself would benefit from application of http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<mannyv> yeah i was pretty certain i got the versions wrong
<persia> Based on the disclosure, it looks like prior versions are unaffected, but I believe it's best practice to attempt the exploit and see if they also need patching.
<persia> dapper has 0.7.14 and the rest have 0.7.15
<mannyv> ok so next steps for me would be to a) attempt on 0.7.{14,15}, b) create a seperate debdiff for each affected version, c) fix patch tagging ?
<lfaraone> Is "lshell impropely handles shell expansions" a SRU-worthy fix? ("ll -a" -> "ls -l-a" rather than -> "ls -l -a")
<lfaraone> ... at the same time, there's a security flaw in lshell that needs fixing apparently. Should these be separate uploads to the different pockets?
<ScottK> lfaraone: Ask the secuirty team in #ubuntu-hardened.  I had one recently they said to put throught the SRU process first and then they'd also put it out through -security.
<RainCT> geser: uhm good question, now that you mention it I have no idea what resolution those screens have. In any case, way more than enough :P
<persia> No such thing.
 * RainCT is confused. persia: was that for me?
<RainCT> ah that there is not enough resolution?
<persia> RIght.
<persia> Human vision is about 60750x40500 pixels.
<persia> Nobody makes displays like that.
<persia> Actually, more like 80000x40000, but as two overlapping 60000x40000 fields.
<RainCT> Well, I suppose there isn't much to gain with 40.000 pixel displays
<persia> Well, you only need that resolution if you've built a 1" display and have it against your eye.
<RainCT> lol
<persia> For a standard monitor position, you only need about 9000x450
<persia> Err, 9000x4500.
<persia> Anything less and it's distinguishable from non-rendered objects.
<persia> (well, depends on display size, distance, etc.)
 * persia fails at math *again* : ~9000x6750 (at 4:3)
<steev> hey all, I've got an issue with WINE and I need a newer openal (1.12.854 which was released in March) No problem I thought, I did a builddep of libopenal1, grabbed the patches and the 1.12.854 sources... but now for the life of me, I cannot seem to get it to create packages with the correct version # - what am i missing that I need to change?
<persia> steev: I'd recommend starting from the Ubuntu openal sources, and running `uscan` in the package directory.  This will create a new source package with the new openal.
<ScottK> YokoZar: I answered your wine question in the bug.
<steev> persia: is there a 1.12.854 sources somehow?
<persia> upstream.  All the packaged ones I know about got deleted.
<persia> But like I said, it's one command to create a packaged 1.12.854 source.
<persia> Just download the current lucid source, and run `uscan` in the package directory.
<anoteng> Anybody care to enlighten me on why a precompiled binary in the source, installed with debian/install file gets corrupted? The size of the file is reduced from 2,7mb to 208 bytes? according to file, it's still a 32bit ELF binary though...
<persia> This will download the upstream sources, and prepare a (separate) packaged directory with the udpated sources.
<persia> anoteng: dh_strip maybe?
 * anoteng reading manpage
<steev> persia: hot.  that is awesome
<ari-tczew> while using command 'dch -i' output target is lucid - is it correct (instead of maverick)? my distro is lucid
<persia> ari-tczew: In my experience, it defaults to the target of the distribution you're running.  You want maverick if you are trying to upload to maverick.
<imbrandon> precompiled binary in the source ? eww, why would you do that
<anoteng> persia, adding export DEB_BUILD_OPTION="nostrip" to the top of the rules file should do the trick then right?
<anoteng> imbrandon, i know it's not a good thing, but upstream insists...
<imbrandon> cant be put in te archive either iirc
<persia> anoteng: Something like that.
<imbrandon> not just "not a good thing" but like very very very very very bad in 99% cases ( unless you are bootstrapping a new compiler )
<anoteng> I know, I'm just trying to get the package working for know, then I'll make a policy compliant package later..
<ScottK> imbrandon: If it's distributable, it could go in Multiverse.
<persia> anoteng: Under what license is this source?
<anoteng> gpl3
<ScottK> Then don't use the pre-compiled binary.
<imbrandon> just out of curiosity what software is it ?
<persia> anoteng: Typically GPL3 software can't be distributed in compliance with the license with precompiled binaries.
<anoteng> DamnVid, a python application.
<anoteng> ok, maybe I'll try again to talk him out of it then..
<persia> anoteng: The only way I know that would make it possible would be to compile another copy of the precompiled binary at build time, do a bitwise comparison to ensure the created binary was the same artifact as the precompiled binary, and then fail the build if it wasn't.  Otherwise, you can't know that the sources you distribute create the binary you distribute, which is a requirement of GPLv3.
<imbrandon> anoteng: what is the precompiled binary ? ffmpeg ?
<persia> Note that the original authors of software are *not* bound by these requirements, as they hold licenses other than those they offer to their users.
<anoteng> yes
<imbrandon> anoteng: no no no no, dont include ffmpeg in the source, esp precompiled
<imbrandon> no no no
 * imbrandon chants more
<anoteng> mkay... will drop it then. But the application has some paths hardcoded. Do I need to patch the source, or can I simply make links?
<imbrandon> anoteng: is there a reason it cant link against the normal ffmpeg ?
<imbrandon> anoteng: patch it
<imbrandon> and repack the tarbal +dfsg if it has the ffmpeg binary in the upstream tar
<anoteng> I guess it's just to make life easier for the author, debugging etc.
<psusi> anyone got any idea what could be causing this? Unable to obtain lock lp-69637264:///~psusi/ubuntu/lucid/ureadahead/mine/.bzr/branch/lock held by psusi@bazaar.launchpad.net on host crowberry [process #19287]
<imbrandon> makes life hell for everyone else though
<anoteng> +dfsg ???
<psusi> locked 5 hours, 13 minutes ago
<persia> psusi: Ask in #launchpad, but bzr break-lock seems to be the commonly-suggested solution.
<psusi> hrm... k... the help file says not to use it unless you are sure the process is dead
<imbrandon> anoteng: debian free software guidelines , e.g. remove the non-free bits from the tar, its a sticky situation for a first package
<persia> anoteng: Debian Free Software Guidelines: used to indicate that you've packaged a special derived version of the upstream source that has been modified to comply with http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
<anoteng> ok, thanks everyone...
<imbrandon> anoteng: now that you have peaked my intrest if you have any problems getting this "right" lemme know i should be mostly avail to help ya
<imbrandon> :)
<anoteng> imbrandon, thanks...
<ari-tczew> I'm preparing a merge @maverick, and I want to use a bazaar instead deprecated debdiffs. What I must to do? get current ubuntu branch or debian branch?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: debdiffs aren't deprecated.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: ok, so now is trend on bazaar
<ScottK> Shifting to distributed development via bzr is a long term goal.  The current tool set works better for some aspects of development than others.
<ScottK> There's decent wiki documentation on merging with bzr, but personally I find it a lot more complex.  Don't let me stop you though.
<geser> ari-tczew: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation has some documentation on how to merge with bzr
<imbrandon> ScottK: open the maverick archives already mr admin , lol j/k i konw you have -0- control over that
<ScottK> imbrandon: Pleanty of SRUs one could do in the meantime if you need your upload fix.
<imbrandon> ive looked through some, most are packages i wouldent feel comfortable touching /me looks again
<persia> imbrandon: There's a few hundred FTBFSs, plus RCBugs that always needs attention.
<persia> Same as prerelease rush, except SRUs.
<imbrandon> true, i forgot ftbfs was a valid sru
<persia> FTBFS is a fairly critical bug, especially as all the binaries got deleted :)
 * persia was given a hint on dvipsk-ja today \\o/
<imbrandon> is lucas's list fairly updated or is the one on qa.uw.o better ?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: In Bug 576592 you said that a sync was appropriate because all changes have been forwarded to Debian.  It would be appropriate if all changes have been incorporated in the Debian package you're asking to have sync'ed, just forwarding them isn't enough.  I suspect this is a language issue and that's what you meant.  Please clarify in the bug.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576592 in twisted-conch "Sync twisted-conch 1:10.0.0-3 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576592
<ScottK> imbrandon: Lucas' list shows everything that failed a rebuild test.  Ubuntuwire just shows onese where the last in archive build failed.
<geser> imbrandon: both lists should be pretty up-to-date
<imbrandon> k
<ScottK> Most of the removed binaries are in lucas' list, but not the uw one.
<geser> imbrandon: or do you mean the FTBFS page for the rebuild archive on qa.uw.o?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: so do I have to change explanation to: all changes have been incorporated in the Debian package ?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: A comment in the bug is fine.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I thought about explanation: 'Packages are the same' as well, would be good?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: "all changes have been incorporated in the Debian package" is clearer.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: ok, I'll remember
<bilalakhtar> what is the process to become a motu?
<ari-tczew> !motu
<ubottu> motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<bilalakhtar> people, what is the process of becoming a motu?
<sebner> !motu | bilalakhtar  ;)
<ubottu> bilalakhtar  ;): motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU#So%20you%20want%20to%20be%20a%20MOTU?
<pochu> !motu | ubotu
<ubottu> ubotu: motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<pochu> !motu | ubottu
<ubottu> pochu: motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<pochu> heh, I wanted to DoS it :-)
<ari-tczew> pochu, you're hardcore :D
<bilalakhtar> sebner: I mean after a person becomes a contributor, what is the process after that?
<bilalakhtar> !motu > ubottu
<ubottu> bilalakhtar, please see my private message
<ari-tczew> sebner: please throw red tomatoes at ... :P
<sebner> ari-tczew: nah, only at hyperair and Laney :P
<bilalakhtar> red tomatoes?
<ari-tczew> yhy :(
<sebner> bilalakhtar: nah, rotten ones
<bilalakhtar> is this an !ot going on?
<sebner> !OT | bilalakhtar
<ubottu> bilalakhtar: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics. Thanks!
<sebner> :P
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: did you found how to become a motu?
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: somewhat
<hyperair> sebner: why meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<ajmitch> hyperair: why not?
<sebner> hyperair: you can take it :P
<bilalakhtar> !ot | sebnar
<ubottu> sebnar: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics. Thanks!
<bilalakhtar> I wanted to send that to you
<bilalakhtar> i mean sebner
<hyperair> ajmitch: meanie.
<sebner> whatever
<hyperair> sebner: 20 points if you can aim tomatoes into my mouth.
<hyperair> sebner: -100 if you hit anywhere else.
 * bilalakhtar throws a tomato into hyperair's mouth on behalf of sebner 
 * bilalakhtar gets 20 points
<hyperair> om nom nom
<sebner> hyperair: hmm, rotten tomatoes are not consistent enough during the flight, You'll get hit all over your body :P
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: you like rotten tomatoes?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: er i've got a time machine embedded in my mouth that reverses the time of the tomatoes.
<bilalakhtar> bye then, so long
<sebner> hyperair: I added black magic to them, your time machine doesn't work! :P
<ari-tczew> !OT | $ALL
<ubottu> $ALL: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics. Thanks!
<hyperair> sebner: i've got a magic nullifier integrated in the said time machine
<persia> Um, let's not do that again.
<sebner> persia++
<sebner> tz tz tz, bad hyperair
<persia> The right answer is something like "Well, you apply to the DMB to be MOTU.  See the bottom of the wiki page".
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I saw that you didn't make any package, so just start contribute to ubuntu
<sebner> ari-tczew: hrm, too late ;)
<ari-tczew> sebner: heh, too young
<sebner> :)
<ari-tczew> hmm, I tried to merge package using bzr, please someone who is the mastermind in bzr merging to check my work bug 521390
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 521390 in junitperf "Merge junitperf 1.9.1-7 (main) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521390
<ajmitch> ari-tczew: it may not matter for that one, but we're grabbing stuff from unstable again for maverick
<ajmitch> looks like it's -7 in testing & unstable anyway
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: I know, but this is residue from lucid development. I'm lazy for changing it due to the same package in testing / unstable
 * hyperair redirects the blame to sebner
<ajmitch> ari-tczew: ok :)
 * ajmitch just wishes the generated diff was against the debian branch
<sebner> hyperair: EHHHHHHHH????
<ajmitch> but I don't know if there's anything we can do to change that, it only makes sense for these merges
 * hyperair chuckles
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: I did following: bzr branch lp ubuntu... then bzr-merge lp debian... then do changes necessary for merge sense then bzr add resolve commit... then push and request a merge. is it ok?
<persia> ajmitch: There's a way to get LP to give you that (assuming the branches are imported as I think they are), but it takes something like 14 clicks (at least last time I tried, with different branches).  It's often easier/faster to generate locally.
<ajmitch> ari-tczew: I don't know, I'm still not familiar enouugh with it all ;)
<ajmitch> afaik there are various tools like bzr merge-package, debcommit which we're to use
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: yea, massacre
<ari-tczew> I think that my merge is OK, but I'm waiting to response from mastermind of bzr
<ari-tczew> maybe geser?
<ajmitch> it looks to be ok
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: do you will take it to sponsor? ;-D
<ajmitch> though when I click on the diff, I don't see the change in debian/ant.properties listed in the changelog
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: because diff which you saw is based on current ubuntu branch, so in current ubuntu's delta we have debian/ant.properties file
<ari-tczew> I think that, maybe I'm wrong, so correct me
<ari-tczew> debdiffs are not hard like bzr :(
<ajmitch> yeah, I think you're right there
<ajmitch> the general case for making packaging changes is that we want to see changes against the current ubuntu branch, it's only here that I want to see the diff against debian
 * ajmitch grabs branches to check
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: before doing a bzr merge, I'm doing merge based on debdiffs dsc dsc > .debdiff, then I'm applying debdiff to bzr branch
<ari-tczew> so I got a debdiff, I can attach to bug, but I think that is beside the point
<ajmitch> that sort of defeats the purpose of trying to use branches
<ari-tczew> honestly I don't see a sense to merging bzr.
<ajmitch> I'm sure there is a point, we're probably just doing it wrong :)
<ari-tczew> This extends the time of our work
<maxb> Keeping full history of packaging changes can be very useful
<maxb> I'm really liking merging in bzr now
<maxb> Sure, it takes some time to absorb the bzr koolaid
<ari-tczew> maxb, my question: merging bzr is a merge code of source package? or merge a revisions as well?
<maxb> I'm afraid I can't understand your question
<ari-tczew> lol, so, you've got a 2 bzr branches. In ubuntu and in debian right?
<maxb> right
<ari-tczew> yea cool, maxb please look at:
<ari-tczew> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/junitperf/maverick
<ari-tczew> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/debian/sid/junitperf/sid
<ari-tczew> bzr is splitted on: revisions changelog and source code
<ScottK> maxb: Since each upload to the archive is a separate commit in bzr, even if you ignore bzr for merging, updating, etc, we are now keeping a full history.
<ari-tczew> we're merging a source code right? but what about revisions changelogs?
<persia> ari-tczew: WHat do you mean by "revision" in that question?
<maxb> ari-tczew: I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean. I have no idea what you mean by "bzr is splitted on: revisions changelog and source code" at all
 * ari-tczew doing like rageman
<ari-tczew> I mean revision's changelog like
<ari-tczew> Recent revisions
<ari-tczew> 5. By Thierry Carrez on 2009-09-02
<ari-tczew>     * debian/control, debian/rules: Build with default-jdk
<ari-tczew>     * debian/control: Runtime depend on headless JREs
<ari-tczew>     * Added debian/ant.properties to force java2 code generation
<ari-tczew>     * debian/control: Policy fixups:
<ari-tczew>       - Bump debhelper to version 5 (also in debian/compat)
<ari-tczew>       - Add ${misc:Depends} to Depends
<ari-tczew>       - Set default section to java
<ari-tczew>       - Move clean target deps to Build-Depends:
 * ajmitch points to mr pastebin for your problems
<ari-tczew> ok, please close this discuss thread, you won't understand what I mean
<persia> ari-tczew: Do you mean the data from `bzr log` or the data in debian/copyright?
<ari-tczew> persia: yea bzr log, that's right!
<maxb> The merge looks fine to me, except that "Force java2 code generation" is a poor way to describe "Compile with Java 1.4 source and target version."
<maxb> Furthermore, it would be useful to have some indication of whether using 1.4 is a higher or lower version that would be used by default, and when that ubuntu-local change could be dropped
<ari-tczew> maxb: is modeled on the antecedents
<maxb> It is part of the job of anyone doing a merge to look for opportunities to discard Ubuntu-specific changes where reasonable
<ScottK> and make sure ones that are appropriate to Debian have been sent there.
<ScottK> nhandler: Did you get a chance to look at that patch?
<ari-tczew> persia: who will decide about MOTU applications on next DMB agenda 11th May?
<persia> Same folk as usual.
<sebner> persia: *you* created a maverick shbuild successfully, right?
<persia> sebner: Yes, a nice fresh one, just when you asked.
<sebner> persia: it seems there is a general problem with pbuilder. As I'm a little bit ill I'm heading to bed now, would you mind doing the sync request of wesnoth? (In fact just needs a testbuild, rest is fine)
<persia> sebner: http://people.ubuntu.com/~persia/pull-soyuz-chroot needs a pbuilder hint, but can be a shortcut to get a chroot.
<persia> (but yeah, I'll testbuild)
<sebner> thx
 * sebner is off then
<maxb> ari-tczew: So in summary, your branch is fine, you just need to provide the debdiff between the debian version and your branch, and explain that the launchpad diff in the merge proposal is the diff between the existing ubuntu version and your merge, not what the reviewers have assumed it to be
<persia> No.
<persia> Really no.
<persia> If one is going to use the bzr method, one should use it entirely, and do a merge-proposal.
<maxb> persia: There *is* a merge proposal
<ari-tczew> maxb: I don't believe.
<persia> The sponsor should then *completely ignore* this merge proposal, and use bzr diff between the Ubuntu and Debian remote branches.
<persia> Or rather the *candidate* and Debian remote branches.
<ari-tczew> then I f|_|ck this due to too long work. don't have time for statistic
<persia> If one uses the debdiff method, there's not much point to fiddling with bzr in the first place, unless one happens to like how bzr merges work.
<persia> !ohmy | ari-tczew
<ubottu> ari-tczew: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<ari-tczew> persia and other, sorry
<ari-tczew> I conclude that bzr merge is theft of time
<ari-tczew> I like work on bzr with SRUs or security updates
<ari-tczew> but merging between distros... sorry, no
<maxb> bzr merge is fine and good, the problem is when sponsors aren't comfortable with bzr merging
<persia> maxb: Rather the annoyance is that the merge proposal is completely useless to the sponsor.
<ari-tczew> persia: where can I find a history of DMB  agenda meetings?
<persia> ari-tczew: ubuntu-devel-announce@ archives is your best source
<persia> Or check the wiki history
<ari-tczew> yea, wiki history is good optin
<ari-tczew> option
<MTecknology> what's up with this version number having 2 ubuntu parts to it? 5.4.2.1~dfsg0ubuntu1-0ubuntu2
<ari-tczew> what about changes on upgrading jaunty -> lucid? can I drop it for maverick?
<maxb> MTecknology: someone Doing It Wrong? :-)
<MTecknology> !info snmpd | maxb
<ubottu> maxb: snmpd (source: net-snmp): SNMP (Simple Network Management Protocol) agents. In component main, is optional. Version 5.4.2.1~dfsg0ubuntu1-0ubuntu2 (lucid), package size 927 kB, installed size 1220 kB
<MTecknology> maxb: I'm guessing 5.4.2.1~dfsg0ubuntu2 would have been right?
<maxb> Oh
<maxb> I see what's going on
<maxb>   * Repackage upstream tarball to re-add the MIBs: even if they are not modifiable (which is questionable), this is not a reason to keep them out of Ubuntu main.
<maxb> That is the critical changelog entry
<maxb> So in this case, the version number, despite looking weird, is actually correct
<maxb> It means:
<maxb> [5.4.2.1] An upstream tarball
<maxb> [~dfsg] repackaged by debian
<persia> No.
<persia> Repackaged to be DFSG-free
<maxb> [0ubuntu1] repackaged again by ubuntu
<maxb> [-0ubuntu2] and then packaged by ubuntu
<persia> No, repackaged the *first* time by Ubuntu (otherwise would have been dfsg1)
<persia> Bit it *should* be 5.4.2.1+dfsg...
<persia> That's a horrid misuse of ~
<maxb> persia: *No*
<maxb> Repackaged first in debian. Re-repackaged in Ubuntu
<persia> Well, then the numbers are not only an annoying example of doing it wrong, but they happen to be the wrong numbers too!
<persia> dfsg0ubuntu1 *should* mean repackaged in Ubuntu but not (yet) repackaged in Debian.
<maxb> dfsg0ubuntu1 is the only reasonable thing to do when the debian repackaging is just 'dfsg' with no numeral
<persia> No, that should be dfsgubuntu1
<persia> At least according to the way we usually do it.  See my wiki page for at least one way in which I find that completely wrong.
<persia> (thankfully somewhat obsolete due to process changes in Debian)
<maxb> No, because if debian then *do* make a dfsg2, dfsgubuntu1 is still greater than dfsg2
<persia> yeah, but it should have been +dfsg1-1 in the first place.
<persia> Anyway, lots of folks doing it wrong, repeatedly, and again.
<maxb> Ideally yes, but the ubuntu numbering is the best approach consistent with the current versioning in debian
<persia> I won't disagree, although it violates our "best practice" recommendations (see prior note about wiki page)
<maxb> best practice?
<persia> Yeah.  It's documented in several places that we're supposed to add "ubuntu1" when first diverging.
<persia> Which is what dch does by default.
<persia> So if you have "1.2.3+dfsg" as a native package, dch will give you "1.2.3+dfsgubuntu1"
<maxb> That is an orthogonal issue. This is not a native package
<persia> Only kinda.
<maxb> Only completely
<maxb> Interesting and painful issue you highlight on your wiki page, though, hinging on a very obscure detail of how versions are compared
<persia> So, the first ubuntu1 was added to the upstream version: if we ignore the part after the "-", it's the same as updating a native package.
<persia> maxb: It's not as bad anymore, because Debian changed how NMUs work, but yeah.
<ari-tczew> what about changes on upgrading jaunty -> lucid? can I drop it for maverick?
<persia> You suggest the insertion of a "0" as being least bad, which might be true, but it's different than just adding "ubuntu1", which is the recommendation in the context which was presumably used as an analogue to determine the version to select.
<persia> In practice, most folk repacking in Ubuntu just use an upstream version following the rules that Debian would, without much regard for how it syncs/merges
 * persia has a list of several hundred packages with the *same* apparent version, but different orig.tar.gzs
<persia> ari-tczew: Depends on the nature of the change.  If it's still required for someone with an original jaunty install, no.
<persia> Any upgrade from jaunty would have been lucid at some point, so if that takes care of everything so that the next upgrade doesn't need it, it can be dropped.
<ari-tczew> persia: ok so I'll drop it, I thought so. thanks
<maxb> The 'append ubuntu1' recommendation is regarding packaging changes rather than repacks, and incorporates the assumption that most/all version strings end with a numeric component, or, if they don't, the likelyhood of a numeric component being appended is very slim
<fabounet> Hello !
<fabounet> we have some bugs-fixs for Cairo-Dock, and we'd like to see them integrated on Lucid.
<fabounet> Here is the bug report on LP :
<fabounet> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cairo-dock-plug-ins/+bug/576647
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576647 in cairo-dock-plug-ins "Please update Cairo-Dock with the following patches" [Undecided,New]
<maxb> The additional zero in the repacked tarball version here is insurance against the possibility of a second debian repack being labelled dfsg2 or somesuch
<persia> ari-tczew: I didn't say drop it.  I said investigate and test.
<persia> fabounet: With lucid released, the process gets a lot more complicated.
<persia> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<persia> fabounet: So, you need to show that a bug meets one of the SRU criteria, and provide test cases, etc.
<fabounet> they do :)
<persia> Based on the bug you show, I think you've a chance, but be aware it's complicated, and will need a lot of handling.
<fabounet> we have uploaded thepatches
<fabounet> and give some indications on their critical level
<persia> Right, but you need to document the test cases, etc.
<persia> See the procedure documentation.
<fabounet> do you have an example ?
<fabounet> ah, I see there are 2 examples
<fabounet> so basically we just need to add a test case ?
<matttbe> Hello!
<matttbe> persia: who can verify our modifications? SRU Verification team?
<persia> matttbe: They will review the code changes, yes.  The process is (quickly): 1) update the bug with justification, details, test case, etc. 2) get it uploaded, 3) hear from the SRU team and address their concerns, 4) undergo the verification process, 5) get the update released.
<persia> But see the wiki page for details.
<matttbe> persia: thank you for this explanation!
<fabounet> thanks, I've added the test cases
<persia> OK.  Next is a minor nit: you want to target "lucid-proposed" instead of "lucid" for a proposed SRU.  If maverick weren't frozen, you'd want to target "maverick" first, and *then* lucid-proposed (have to fix the latest release first)
<persia> You wanted to have described "ubuntu-sru" rather than "sru-verification" (so subscribe "ubuntu-sru" now)
<persia> And be sure to nominate for lucid.
<persia> s/described/subscribed/
<matttbe> persia: thank you, ubuntu-sru has been subscribed but I don't understand what I've to do in order to update Lucid and Maverick versions
<matttbe> should I have to add a tag lucid-proposed?
<persia> maverick is frozen right now, so no need to worry about that.  Next week, you'll want to fix any bugs in maverick before they can be approved to be fixed in lucid.
<persia> Nope, you want the "nominate for release" link.
<persia> and then nominate for lucid there.
<matttbe> ok, I see
<persia> Heh.  The test case description doesn't make it easy for the verification team.  Is there any way to construct some artifical data that will force a crash?
<matttbe> for most of them, it's easy to do the verification
<fabounet> I think it's easier to just read the patch, than trying to reproduce the bug ^^
<fabounet> the patches are indeed very straightforward
<persia> OK.  Be warned the verification team may have comments :)
<fabounet> ok thanks for the advice :)
<fabounet> I'll take the time to explain them then
<persia> The key is that some members of the verification team are just testers, and may not be good at reading code.
<matttbe> So we just have to wait now? :)
<persia> If there's a clear test case, that makes it easier for them, so it's faster to get verified.
<fabounet> ok, well 2 bugs are definitely not easy to reproduce (actually I couldn't reproduce them myself, I just guessed the cause thanks to the different bug-reports soem users made)
<matttbe> but for these two bugs, we've just added a new test for some special case (e.g. if the WM is launched after Cairo-Dock)
<ubuntujenkins> hello I have a package that I have made using a dir2deb script that someone suggested (i did check it first). I would like these two commands as the last thing when the package is configured sudo texhash /usr/share/texmf-texlive' then updmap --enable Map ccicons.map . How/where would i add them to get them to run?
<ubuntujenkins> any suggestions welcome
<persia> ubuntujenkins: http://wiki.debian.org/MaintainerScripts
<ubuntujenkins> thanks persia I will get reading
<persia> fabounet: matttbe: Looks like your bug is in a good state.  Now you just need a sponsor, so subscribe the sponsors team ("ubuntu-sponsors").
<matttbe> persia: thank you, I will do that
<persia> Someone will upload, and then the SRU team will review, and then the verification team will verify, and then it will be published (or someone will comment along the way)
<ari-tczew> when maverick will be open?
<ari-tczew> I'm very impatient :P
<matttbe> ari-tczew: it's open :)
<matttbe> ari-tczew: http://uppix.net/9/9/0/0565c5d1be002bcfc7a10271afa3e.png
<ari-tczew> matttbe: are you sure? [00:24] <persia> maverick is frozen right now
<matttbe> repositories are open, I just have some updates like gcc
<matttbe> but the upload is maybe frozen now
<matttbe> I don't know
<maxb> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick
<maxb> Status:
<maxb>     Pre-release Freeze
<persia> Right.  Frozen.
<persia> Upoads work, but aren't required to be publised before pushing SRUs.
<ari-tczew> before pushing SRUs? I don't understand. I'm interested in merges and syncs
<maxb> I don't think you need to even upload to maverick to do a SRU, until the archive opens
<micahg> persia: also pitti has said that -proposed can be pocket copied to maverick if nothing newer has been uploaded
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-07
<ubuntujenkins> I am still reading about maintainer scripts (following links etc) . On another topic I would like to get a package into universe is there some form of guide/details on what requrements it needs to meet?
<persia> No.
<persia> Basic guidelines are: lintian-clean, nicely packaged, of interest to some Ubuntu developer.
<persia> Depending on the relative cycles, it's often easier to get into Debian, and it's almost always easier to continue to maintain it in Debian.
<ubuntujenkins> ok its not much use to debian as it would be for the ubuntu-manual project but what does "interest to some Ubuntu developer." mean? The program is only really usefull to new users would it get in? It would basically retrive the manual in their langauage
<ubuntujenkins> also where should i send it?
<persia> ubuntujenkins: What is this program, and waht does it do?
<ubuntujenkins> persia: It basically provides a way for the user to get the latest version of the manual (pdf) in their language and view it, keeping it up to date.
<ubuntujenkins> I say "view" but htey will just see it in their pdf reader
<persia> This really doesn't sound like more than a .desktop file.
<persia> Is there another package in which it could be sensibly included?
 * persia is imagining a .desktop file and a script that checks a file location, and if absent, downloads something to make it present, and then opens a PDF viewer
<ubuntujenkins> persia: It does have a gui as the manual might not be avalible in their language, so we ask them to choose one and suggest the could help translate. (Thats the idea). It is a glorified .desktop file . I
<ubuntujenkins> I am not aware of a package we could add it to off the top of my head
<persia> I'm not sure it's enough to have meaningful value as it's own package if it's a glorified .desktop file.
<persia> You could upload it to REVU, but I believe the backlog is larger than will be processed during the maverick cycle, which makes it awkward.
<persia> And I agree there's no point trying to get it in Debian: it doesn't belong there.
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks i will have a go at making it thanks for your help persia
<ubuntujenkins> I think our project lead will be very pleased if we get it in
<micahg> persia: so since REVU queue is backlogged, if I want a new package in Ubuntu for Maverick, I should push it through Debian?
<persia> That's usually best practice anyway, unless it's a package that's interesting to have Ubuntu-local, or needs to be (e.g. for trademark reasons).
<carstenh> ubuntujenkins: you should read something about what debhelper is or how it works in general and then read the man page of dh_installtex
<ubuntujenkins> carstenh: thanks I like your script its very helpful. I think i will look in the morning its gettting late now
<carstenh> ubuntujenkins: dh_installtex is not used by default because it is not standard debhelper module (it's in another packge) and it should take care of the changes you need to make to the maintainer script
<ubuntujenkins> ok, got it I did not think i would be doing all this 4 months ago all so much fun :)
<carstenh> you're welcome :) http://stateful.de/~carsten/tmp/100507UsG9s93sBD8/dir2deb includes a fix for a typo, fixes displaying the error message if a required variable is not set and adds the possibility to overwrite the short and loond description using environment variables. you can check the differences using diff -u oldfile newfile
<carstenh> ubuntujenkins: the only change that is visible in a generated package is the typo in debian/copyright (unless you substituted it with something useful). so there is not need to rerun it for an existing package
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks carstenh
<carstenh> s/loo../long/
<nhandler> ScottK: I can't see any reason not to get it applied in Debian. The pkg-perl team (the real maintainer) are very responsive to applying patches that we need in Ubuntu
<ScottK> nhandler: Thanks.  Would you please push it up to their svn?
<ScottK> I'll be glad to if your rather merge boost1.42.
<nhandler> ScottK: I can take care of it, but it will need to wait until at least the weekend.
<ScottK> nhandler: That's fine.  It's been unmerged for almost two years, another two days won't hurt.
<nhandler> :)
<bilalakhtar> people, what is the process for a contrib to update a package in universe
<bilalakhtar> hello?
<micahg> bilalakhtar: version update or patch?
<bilalakhtar> micahg: version update
<\sh> moins
<bilalakhtar> micahg: yes?
 * micahg is looking, it's late for me :)
 * bilalakhtar understands why micahg is busy
<\sh> micahg, it's never too late...;)
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: not only that it can be alot of things because the packaging may need updating too
<\sh> micahg, btw...are you attending the upcoming UDS?
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: and it may also be actively maintained in debian, and would be better to be updated there in some cases
<imbrandon> s/some/most
<micahg> imbrandon: maybe you can take over this Q
<micahg> \sh: yes :)
<imbrandon> micahg: :)
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: yeah, it requires a test build, test run, and, dch!
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: yes, but quite a bit before that
<\sh> micahg,nice...so we can meet in person :)
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: INCASE it doesn't work
<micahg> \sh: indeed, that will be nice
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: otherwise, its simple to package, and upload
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: first you need to dertimine if it should actualy be updated in Ubuntu, or should it be updated in debian and synced
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: yes that is also there, but my question is, what is the process for a non-motu to do that?
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: THEN you download the new tar, and update the conrtol/rules/*.install as needed
<micahg> bilalakhtar: here's the link I was looking for: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/#MOTU%20Processes
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: the same as a MOTU the only diffrence is you need to get a sponsor to upload it once completed
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: yes, but, should I upload the package to revu or what?
<micahg> \sh: night
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: depends on what your sponsor wishes, but normaly no
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: most of the time you put a diff on an LP bug or Debian BTS attachment
<\sh>  micahg have a good one :) /me just starts to work :(
 * micahg needs to be up in 6 hrs :(
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: thanks. using pbuilder to do some stuff right now :)
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: but one cannot update a universe package in a stable release like karmic or lucid, right? but we can do it for maverick?
<imbrandon> right , well you can but it must follow SRU policys
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: if its just a small update, like from 3.1.2 to 3.1.5
<bilalakhtar> then what?
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: again though if your updating to a new version please make sure you shouldent be doing it in debian first
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: dosent matter how small or big , still folows same steps
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: and thats 3 revisions so its a larger update :) not a small one
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: fine, now I am getting training on how to pakage well :)
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: :) its a long processes with alot of variables
<imbrandon> thats why its hard to give a solid awnser, almost every package needs individual attention
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: yes, and you people, as motus, may be getting a lot of needs-packaging bugs and all the stuff!
<imbrandon> sure, but most needs-packaging should be filed as ITP's in debian
<imbrandon> only the rare case does it nned to be in ubuntu first
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: yes, its  *better* to upload to debian and then sync
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: not only better but damn near a requirement depending on your sponsor
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: yeah
<bilalakhtar> This is a debian question: Where can I find info on how to get packages into debian on wiki.debian.org?
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp
<imbrandon> and mentors.debian.net
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: thanks
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: np
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: its alot to take in, if you have more specific questions be sure to ask :)
<imbrandon> ( i'm sure you will )
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: these are the reasons why windoze stinks. no community support. no way to add packages to the windows repo (there isn't one) !
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: so I should target  debian squeeze and ubuntu maverick?
<persia> Debian unstable.  uploading towards squeeze is almost never right.
<bilalakhtar> persia: isn't squeeze the debian unstable right now?
<bilalakhtar> sorry I am new to debian packaging, though I know about ubuntu packaging
<persia> No.
<bilalakhtar> what is unstable?
<imbrandon> sid
<bilalakhtar> what is squeeze then?
<imbrandon> its called "unstable" though, they dont use the names in the changelog as ubuntu does
<persia> Debian has a permanent "unstable" repository.  Packages that are in that repository and unbuggy for a configured amount of time are copied into the "testing" repository, which happens to currently be "squeeze".
<imbrandon> sqeeze is testing
<bilalakhtar> oh, I got confused when I came to debian. feeling at home with ubuntu
<imbrandon> moins persia
<persia> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: they are very similar and very diffrent at the same time ;)
 * bilalakhtar creates a chroot for maverick
<persia> bilalakhtar: If Debian confuses you, stick to bugfixing in Ubuntu for a while, rather than packaging/updating new stuff.
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: yea i second what persia just stated
<persia> After you've become familiar with the tools, etc. Debian may make a lot more sense.
 * persia doesn't think new packaging or updating is a good place to start *at all*: it's like jumping in the deep end of the pool when one is learning to swim
<bilalakhtar> persia, imbrandon: thanks for your lecture :)
<imbrandon> heh yea, or an ocean
<imbrandon> if your comming form windows
 * bilalakhtar has been fixing bugs for a while now
<maco> i tend to think that reviewing patches and turning them into candidate uploads is a good place to start
<imbrandon> maco: agreed
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: no, I switched to ubuntu when gutsy came
<bilalakhtar> have used hardy, intrepid, jaunty, karmic and now lucid
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: :)
<bilalakhtar> not to forget the GUTSY!
<imbrandon> great
<bilalakhtar> I took up app development in ubuntu a year ago
<persia> bilalakhtar: We don't mean to imply you're not active: we just haven't seen you around that much yet, and like to suggest easy stuff at first :)
<persia> (at least not around in *this* channel: I've certainly seen you lots of other places)
<bilalakhtar> persia: maybe in #ubuntu-offtopic
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: definately but it is ALOT to take in, i started somewhere arround breezy's release and still have alot to learn ;)
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: wow, you have been here since the BREEZY BADGER?
<imbrandon> i ahve be developing since then, i was using before that, yes
<imbrandon> as has persia and ajm*itch and Scot*tK and TONS of other ubuntu-dev's ;) some of us are quite old-ish
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: you develop in which languages?
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: mono,php and c++ mostly , although the last year or so i've been picking up some python
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: I develop in php, c++, gave up python just a month ago
<bilalakhtar> I didn't get any major libraries to have a python bin ding
<bilalakhtar> *binding
<imbrandon> huh?
<bilalakhtar> like, you can see a media player I am currently developing, https://launchpad.net/gnome-media-player
<imbrandon> python has a binding for almost everything ;)
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: does python have a libvlc binding? gstreamer binding?
<imbrandon> yes and yes
<imbrandon> and its trivial to wrap other things like mplayer
<bilalakhtar> but python can never match the vast library support of c
<imbrandon> infact i just wrote a proof of concept python qt app that used gstreamer to play some rtsp streamd mkv videos 2 days ago, in like ~100 loc
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> even had pretty qt overlayed controls on the video surface :P
<bilalakhtar> oh, just found python bindings for libvlc and gst :)
<imbrandon> hehe yea , youb be suprised at the vastness of python binding and libs
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: ok, find a way to create a kernel module in python :)
<imbrandon> hahaha right tool for the job, when you only know one language everything looks like a nail
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: but c is the only language in which you could make a kernel module
<imbrandon> c/c++ is about perfect for kmods, cuz its not too low level like asm to where its proc specific, but still can be compiled standalone
<imbrandon> static*
<bilalakhtar> praise gcc, the gnu compiler collection! the app without which gnu/linux wouldn't be like what its now !
<imbrandon> and rapid app dev is done well in python or ruby or gambas , everything has its place ( then you can always optimize parts that need c++ or asm later ) :P
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: agreed. php would be my language of choice of it had better support for cli and many people had it installed by default
<bilalakhtar> php-gtk should become official
<persia> Please, no.
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: heh if you only knew hahahahah i love php, but then again i feel the right tool for the job is applicable there too, but dont get me wrong where most people here would write a bash or python script i write php-cli apps :) i have a few dozen on my hdd i've written for various things over the years
<imbrandon> but most ( /me looks at persia ) would kill me for it ;)
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: yeah, I also prefer php and love it, for many reasons
 * bilalakhtar has his maverick shroot ready
<bilalakhtar> *chroot
<imbrandon> 99% of the time php is my "fallback" if i need something done *NOW* i do it in php, then i find the best tool for it after
<persia> I've just never seen a "best coding guidelines" doc for PHP.
<persia> And most of the PHP stuff I've seen can be broken with a bit of effort.
<bilalakhtar> one more thing where php is the best is its manual
<imbrandon> persia: there really isnt one, there are alot of best practices but its like perl, its chnaged so much over the years
<persia> But I wouldn't kiil anyone: I tend to grab make when I want something done quick-like, and I know most folks don't prefer it.
<bilalakhtar> the *best* and *most documented* manual. every function has a page
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: i have to agree, the php docs are BY FAR the best i have ever had to use
<imbrandon> that and its hard to find a webserver that dosent support PHP and thats where i make my $$ ( i re-brand websites for people/companys )
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> but i also use it for many things most would cringe at, like i have a 34k+ file mp3 collection that i backup,index, and manipulate nightly on cron via php, and then serve up a frontend to access it while i'm away form $HOME
<imbrandon> i wasent happy with any of the available solutions at the time ( arround 2001 ) so i made my own, it has grown form a simple ~30 line script to a fill blown suiet of php scripts even with their own conffiles and debian package
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> i should really re-write it in c# or c++ someday, but i never seem to have the tuits and i put a ton of hours into the php already
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> what would be really nice is if rhythmbox started using something like couchdb , then i could replicate the db from rhythmbox nightly and use that as a backend for my frontend
<imbrandon> but that dident exist ~8.5 years ago
<imbrandon> and i would be tied to one gui
<\sh> imbrandon, shouldn't be a rpoblem to integrate couchdb into rhythmbox
<RAOF> Does it really make sense to replicate the metadata but not the data?
<\sh> RAOF, just attach your mp3s to the couchdb database documents...there you go ;) but I wonder if it's really a good idea to replicate 10G of mp3s ;)
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> hey dholbach
<RAOF> Or ~40GiB of assorted mp3, wavpack, flac and aac :)
<dholbach> hi \sh
<imbrandon> RAOF: the data is replicated via rsync nightly anyhow, i want the metadata for my front end
<imbrandon> my php script spends about ~60 minnutes a night reindexing the meta data
<imbrandon> to put into a mysqldb
<imbrandon> for my frontend
<\sh> But what would be nice to tell rhythmbox to sync some of the music files via desktopcouch to ubuntu one (or an eventually opensourced compatible service) and have your data also synced to other computers you have hands on ;)
<\sh> imbrandon, I have ampache running at home :)
<imbrandon> \sh: yea i've looked at Ampache, its close to what i have, but i did my first and long before that one
<RAOF> It would be nice to have Banshee play from my U1 account on all my computersâ¦
<imbrandon> one sec lemme see if i can add a .htaccess entry for ya for a moment to look at it
<imbrandon> \sh RAOF : http://bobsmusic.sytes.net/   user:temp pass:brandon
<imbrandon> thats the "front end"
<imbrandon> ( be kind to it, its on my cable modem )
<\sh> garry glitter ... I see that we have a very similar taste of music ;)
<imbrandon> \sh: lol, i have a littel bit of everything
<imbrandon> little*
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: how do I force pbuilder to use maverick archive?
<\sh> ok...it looks like ampache without the shinyness ;)
<bilalakhtar> I added that line in .pbuilderrc, in my package dch, what else?
<imbrandon> \sh: yup exactly, but arround way way before ampache ;)
<\sh> imbrandon, :)
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: depends on your pbulder setup, first you must have a maverik base.tgz
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: something like "DIST=maverick sudo pbuilder create" should work
<bilalakhtar> imbrandon: I added the line in .pbuilderrc, then ran build, do I need to do something else also?
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: something like "DIST=maverick sudo pbuilder build some.dsc" should work
<bilalakhtar> its DISTRIBUTION=maverick
<bilalakhtar> ok, then, I will run update --override-config
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: like i said depends on your pbuilder setup ;) mine i have the DIST varible
<bilalakhtar> create seemed to recognise the distribution variable, but not build
<bilalakhtar> when I ran create, it said "Distribution is maverick"
<bilalakhtar> does that mean I have a maverick base?
<imbrandon> should , but as i said it all depends on the .pbuilderrc and the rest of the setup, pbuilder is very very custom per person/setup
<imbrandon> basicly just go through the same steps you did to make a lucid one
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: http://paste.debian.net/72368/
<imbrandon> bilalakhtar: thats my pbuilderrc for refrence
<bilalakhtar> got it. I am updating base.tgz
<imbrandon> good
<imbrandon> \sh: imbrandon@enterprise:/storage/websites/bobsmusic.sytes.net$ du -sh /storage/users/imbrandon/Music
<imbrandon> 83G     /storage/users/imbrandon/Music
<imbrandon> a little more than 10g :)
<\sh> imbrandon, hehe
 * imbrandon turns off access since this channel is logged , dont want everyone eating up my bandwidth
<bilalakhtar> lifeless: Why is your mugshot an upside-down person?
<ajmitch> because he's upside down?
<lifeless> kiko's sense of humour
<lifeless> then I decided I liked it
<imbrandon> heh or hes downunder
<bilalakhtar> lifeless: Why is your mugshot an upside-down person?
<ajmitch> and again...
<bilalakhtar> ajmitch: I went offline
<bilalakhtar> so missed the answer *probably*
<bilalakhtar> blame my connection
<imbrandon> 03:05:29 < ajmitch> because he's upside down?
<imbrandon> 03:08:25 < lifeless> kiko's sense of humour
<imbrandon> 03:08:29 < lifeless> then I decided I liked it
<imbrandon> 03:08:30 < imbrandon> heh or hes downunder
<imbrandon> ajmitch: i updated the packages on p.u.c to include the rythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store now too, and filed an ITP for it today
<ajmitch> though it'll only work when rb uses python 2.6
<imbrandon> nah i made it work with 2.5
<imbrandon> it works on my sqweeze laptop now
<imbrandon> the packages a a mess of mix between 2.5 and 2.6 though lol
<imbrandon> everything is forced 2.6 except for the musicstore which is forced 2.5 to work with rb
<imbrandon> but it "works" just not clean as i'd like
<imbrandon> i'd really like to hear from jak soon, so i can poke him to atlease update aptdaemon and software-center, and possible give us the ITP's
<bilalakhtar> People, I have uploaded a new version of the package "clamtk" to revu on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/clamtk . I have run a test build using pbuilder, checked for errors using lintian, filed bug #576902
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576902 in ubuntu "New upstream version of ClamTk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576902
<bilalakhtar> People, I have uploaded a new version of the package "clamtk" to revu on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/clamtk . I have run a test build using pbuilder, checked for errors using lintian, filed bug #576902
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576902 in ubuntu "New upstream version of ClamTk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576902
<bilalakhtar> Why are people joining and leaving this channel so much?
<Laney> That's what happens
<Laney> you can ignore them if you like (I have)
<bilalakhtar> Laney: Are you a motu?
 * Laney goes suspiciously quiet
 * bilalakhtar searches for a sponser for an updated package
<Laney> you should just use the sponsor queue
<bilalakhtar> Laney: what sponsor queue?
<bilalakhtar> where is it?
<bilalakhtar> I have subscribed the bug to the ubuntu-sponsors team
<Laney> that's it
<bilalakhtar> james_w: According to the schedule on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews , you are reasy to sponsor packages now
<james_w> bug number?
<bilalakhtar> 1 sec
<bilalakhtar> bug #576902
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576902 in clamtk "New upstream version of ClamTk" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576902
<bilalakhtar> james_w: oh didn't see the recent comment. sorry. no need  to review
 * stefanlsd makes my people i need to buy a beer list for uds
<azop> stefanlsd: It might be easier to grab a keg
<stefanlsd> azop: hehe. yeah. def :)
<azop> stefanlsd: with that in mind, what can I do to help you so I get added to the list?
<stefanlsd> azop: haha. i'll buy u one anyways. just find me
<mirsal> Hello :)
<mirsal> Could you have a look to the last two revisions of php5-mcrypt ? https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/php-mcrypt/lucid
<mirsal> It looks like patches were applied in the wrong order
<mirsal> (on lucid)
<mirsal> zul, ping
<zul> pong
<mirsal> ah, great
<mirsal> zul, cf. my last messages =)
<zul> mirsal: k...ill hhave a look when i get a chance
<mirsal> zul, Thanks
<mirsal> (it should be trivial)
<JontheEchidna> Could an ubuntu-sru person take a peek at bug 576660 please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576660 in soprano "soprano crashes on multiple simultaneous queries" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576660
<JontheEchidna> The reporter happens to be upstream of an affected app, so I'd like for this to not get lost in the morass
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: jdong is probably your best bet.  He's got a ton of projects to get done before the semester ends so he's probably procrastinating.
<nigelbabu> ScottK: procrastinattion 101 :D
<\sh> ./mirror_lucid --to-laptop && echo "done"
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, Can you attach a debdiff or link to bzr branch revision?
<JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: debdiff attatched
<cody-somerville> why do you guys prepend kubuntu_ to your patch filenames?
<ScottK> To distinguish from patches that come from Debian.
<JontheEchidna> Conincidentally, there's a spec to make things a bit more sane in that regard: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/MaverickPatchPolicy
<JontheEchidna> The naming scheme, and patch policy in general for kubuntu
 * jpds wishes we had ubuntu_* patches.
<\sh> jpds, wasn't that somewhere documented, that we should use "ubuntu_" prefix for ubuntu patches?
<cody-somerville> I thought we were going to use patch tags or something for that.
<\sh> cody-somerville, inside the patch file...but it would be nice to see before what is "upstream" patch (means: debian patches) and what is ubuntu only
<cody-somerville> \sh, Can you give a use case?
<cody-somerville> if I'm working with the files locally, executing grep is almost as easy as executing ls.
<dholbach> Last day of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek starts in 21m in #ubuntu-classroom with "Introduction to Ubuntu Development"
<cody-somerville> plus, patch tags or just good ol' revision control would give greater flexibility to see who did what since a patch could easily start upstream but then by modified by Debian and then be modified by Ubuntu. are you going to have upstream_debian_ubuntu_01_blah.patch?
<cody-somerville> wow. I actually really don't like that spec. Adds way too much confusion/bureaucracy, especially for new contributors or contributors not familiar with Kubuntu policies, for very little benefit when a good comment in the patch could be so much more helpful and accurate.
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, Your SRU request needs a bit of improvement. Please describe the change that is actually being made (ie. the commit message is pretty descriptive). Also although the patch being done upstream and upstream history can be a factor in your regression analysis, the meat and potatoes should be based on the actual change your proposing.
<cody-somerville> *you're
<\sh> cody-somerville, I can't right now without searching....but in general...even when someone only changes some sources which are "ubuntu specific" (e.g. launchpad integration in the help menu)...
<\sh> anyways...I think we have enough time next week to discuss some of those little things ;)
 * \sh still needs to setup something for next week
<ari-tczew> dholbach: what are tasks of day-to-day maintenance ?
<dholbach> ari-tczew: I'm giving a open week session right now
<dholbach> ari-tczew: can you mail me?
<ari-tczew> dholbach: sure
<dholbach> thanks
<JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: fixed
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, have you tested the patch yourself?
<JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: yes, it fixes the crash with the given testcase
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, I'm not really sure you provided the information I requested. The commit message says "Instead of checking for the connection state in the current thread, actually try to connect.". I'm curious as to the affect that will have and if it could potential cause other crashes or maybe memory/descriptor leaks.
<JontheEchidna> All I know, is that upstream made a point to release a bugfix release for this patch, and upstream is going to get pissy with us if we don't include it.
<psusi> temugen: say, maybe your python skills could help me some more... so far I have been doing this by hand with grep and sed... could you whip something up that can take the ureadahead --dump output and translate it into a file that lists their inode numbers, one per line?
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, Although I appreciate the delicacy of maintaining healthy relationships with upstream developers,
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, the objective here is to protect our users from regressions while providing a critical fix to a stable release.
<ScottK> cody-somerville: If there's s clear test case and the diff is reasonable, I think that's what the procedure requires.
<JontheEchidna> the rest will be taken care of during the verification-needed bit
<cody-somerville> I don't like the idea of blindly applying patches from upstream SVN which is why I want to see some level of understanding of the change being made.
<JontheEchidna> This is not blindly taking a patch from upstream svn. It is isolating the major fix of a point release of the software, as is SRU protocol, in order to solve a regression that makes an application very unstable.
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, Thats why if you link to say a changelog then it'll help me get that.
<JontheEchidna> http://soprano.sourceforge.net/node/46
<cody-somerville> as I suspected, the fix is "quick and ugly".
<JontheEchidna> obviously clean enough to warrant a point release from upstream,though
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, So, I'm curious if when soprano tries to connect, does it have to explicatively close the connection? What are the ramifications of it trying to connect every time isConnected() is called?
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, I can understand why you want to provide this fix to users. However, from my perspective I think a little extra care here is warranted since this is a "quick and ugly fix" (sic).
<l3on> Hi all... I've some doubts about quilt use: I created patch as described in this tutorial:
<l3on> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-modify.en.html
<l3on> now, have I to add some lines in debian/rules to make sure build operation calls quilt patches?
<JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: if there is already a connection, connectInCurrentThread() will return the existing socket
<JontheEchidna> so it will not result in creating connections that will never be closed
<temugen> psusi: yea, no problem
<JontheEchidna> From what I've seen in the comments, the whole socket architecture needs redone, which is likely why the fix was called "quick and ugly"
<JontheEchidna> a stopgap measure for a class that really just needs redone
<jdong> JontheEchidna: what's the testing scope of the upstream fix? e.g. how many distros/users have adopted that solution?
<jdong> JontheEchidna: I totally sympathize with the motivation to adopt upstream's workaround, but I've been-there-done-that with KTorrent's "trade one race condition for another" approach, and I'd hate to go through a SRU verification cycle just to get a new batch of slightly different versions of this bug
<JontheEchidna> jdong: Fedora has pushed the entire 2.4.3 (this fix plus what looks like some apidocs updates) to Fedora 11, one of their stable releases
<jdong> JontheEchidna: fedora's also pushed iptables packages with the binary missing, alsa packages that can't even install due to nonexistent dependencies.... more importantly than them pushing, what have their users reported?
<jdong> (oh yeah, they also had a bind9 update that shipped a conf file with mismatched braces.)
<ScottK> Right.  They would be the ones who did so great with KDE that Linus switched to Gnome.
<JontheEchidna> they also switched over to 4.0 the first release they could
<psusi> temugen: a few caveats about it though... 1) symbolic links need followed and their destination looked up instead, and 2) could you separate the directories from normal files?  it seems that normal files don't share the buffer cache of the block device, so I need to read directories through the block device, and normal files the normal way, so I'd like to keep them separate on the disk
<ScottK> Same thong
<ScottK> thong/thing
<temugen> psusi: do you want it to print JUST the inodes?
<psusi> temugen: basically... defrag wants a list of inodes to prioritize... one inode number per line... it also takes a priority number though, so basically I want a line that says "=-2" then all of the directory inode numbers, then a line that says "=-1" followed by all of the normal file inode numbers
<temugen> ok
<psusi> that should pack the directories first, where they can be read quickly through the block device, then the files, which can be read normally... all without seeking
<jdong> JontheEchidna: I mean don't get me wrong, Fedora's awesome, but good judgement in pushing out updates is not their claim to fame. The information I'd like to hear from Fedora is "1000 users installed and there's concensus it fixed the bug" type feedback from the users
<BlackZ> I'm unable to upload a package on revu. The last upload was for lucid the 15th feb 2010 but it was signed with another pgp key, however the currently key I'm using to sign the package is imported in launchpad. Any idea?
<psusi> temugen: eventually I'd like to have the package build an alternate initrd for you to choose from your grub menu that will parse the pack file, delete it, then defrag using that information to optimize, and reboot
<\sh> ok...guys...I'll see you at UDS...(arrival: sunday around 1700 GMT+2)
<temugen> psusi: hmmm.... does ureadahead list any directories in the dump?
<temugen> psusi: I stat'd every realpath and check S_ISDIR, but came up with no directories
<jdong> JontheEchidna: anyway, bottom line is, cody-somerville and I are not trying to be bureaucratic jerks making your life harder... We'd just like to make sure you're filing this SRU because you believe it'll fix the bug, not because upstream committed a hackish fix and we're being puppets and following along for the fun of it
<jdong> if you have that confidence in the fix, I'm willing to give you the SRU approval
<psusi> temugen: it does in my version ;)
<psusi> temugen: ohh, and probably going to need --root parameter so you can run it on a fs mounted in /mnt for example
<jdong> or a --pack parameter in general.
<psusi> think --root... because you will need to prepend that to each path when stating it
<temugen> I just pushed a script with fragraph (that relies on fragraph)
<temugen> but what about --root/--pack now? :)
<temugen> ok, so you want a prefix added?
<psusi> temugen: if I mount the fs in /mnt from say, a livecd, there needs to be a way for that to work... normally ureadahead --dump looks for the dump on the current root, which won't work from a livecd
<temugen> ok
<JontheEchidna> jdong: it does fix the bug. I've confirmed that
<ScottK> JontheEchidna: If an SRU is too hard, I'll approve a backport.
<psusi> so need to point ureadahead to the pack file in /mnt, and then the file names it spits out will be relative to /mnt, so need to add /mnt when stat()ing
<temugen> do you have /sys /dev to work with too? (since this script just uses Ureadahead from fragraph, it needlessly reads in the block device too)
<psusi> though actually I think ureadahead does not support --dumping a pack file from another system either...
<psusi> hrm...
<jdong> JontheEchidna: ok, I'll give an ACK for the bug to continue testing then :) sorry for the hassle
<temugen> psusi: I can allow you to pass in a dump of a packfile and you specify a prefix?
<psusi> temugen: do you run ureadahead --dump, or do you parse the pack file yourself?
<temugen> psusi: I can do either
<JontheEchidna> Thank you. I will be perfectly fine to let it go if the verification process catches regressions in -proposed
<psusi> how does it work now?
<temugen> psusi: I do ureadahead --dump, but I can make it so you pass in a filename of --dump output
<psusi> temugen: yea, then to work from another system either ureadahead needs fixed, or you have to run ureadahead in a chroot... hrm..
<temugen> psusi: right now it does ureadahead --dump, needlessly reads /sys /dev stuff like it does for fragraph, and then goes through stat'ing realpaths and checking if they're directories or not
<jdong> JontheEchidna: thanks. I've commented on your bug report.
<psusi> what does it look in /sys and /dev for?
<temugen> psusi: it finds the device from the dump and uses it to pass into blockdev to get sizes
<psusi> ohh, to know how big to make the graph?
<temugen> psusi: for various things, yes
<psusi> hrm... actually, I guess nevermind on the --root parameter... will just need to run it after chrooting into the mounted fs
<psusi> for now...
<temugen> psusi: alright, just ping me if you want something modified
<psusi> cool, thanks
<psusi> I'll give it a try tonight... must.... break... 10 second barrier...
<temugen> psusi: that would be awesome :)
<temugen> psusi: and you did point out in needs to follow symbolic links before grabbing the inode, doesn't that mean some of the symlink names are too long to fit in the inode?
<psusi> I had it down to 13 or 14 seconds last night
<temugen> it needs*
<psusi> temugen: dunno... don't care really... I just want to make sure the REAL file is packed in the proper place ;)
<psusi> though actually I guess stat() will follow the symlink to the real file won't it?  it's lstat that doesn't
<temugen> psusi: does ureadahead seek to read the symlink first to find the realpath, though?
<temugen> psusi: and yea, you're right.
<psusi> all I know is that when I was running ls -i at first, it gave me the inode number of the symlink instead of the file it points to, hehe...
<psusi> it will if the link is too long to fit in the inode, but I don;t think a typical system has any of those
<temugen> psusi: ok, that's fine, I wasn't sure. 13 seconds is awesome :)
<psusi> I think I can get it down to 8 ;)
<psusi> maybe 7
<temugen> O_O
<psusi> my ssd boots in 5 ;)
<psusi> ohh, actually I just scanned for non fast symlinks with find / -mount -type l | xargs du and it did find a few
<psusi> hrm.. quite a few actually...
<temugen> psusi: possibly prioritize those inodes as well? :)
 * psusi wonders wtf there are font files in /var/lib for on a server
<psusi> temugen: no need if they aren't used by ureadhead ;)
<temugen> psusi: no no, of course. just wondering if you want me to list any if they exist in the dump with the python script
<psusi> I wouldn't worry about it for now...
<temugen> ok
<psusi> I seem to have a bunch of symlinks in /var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType that point way over to /usr/share/fonts/some/retardedly/long/name... which is odd seeing as this is a server install
<psusi> headless
<psusi> LOTs of long symlinks in /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages... hrm...
<ScottK> Please don't break the Python symlinks.
<psusi> hoho... not breaking any symlinks... was just checking to see if there are many that could benefit from being moved by the defragger
<psusi> I'm surprised to find so many long ones
<psusi> what are all these needed for?
<ScottK> Just be glad we don't also have python2.5 anymore or there'd be a lot of similar symlinks for  /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages
<psusi> what are they all for and could they not use hard links instead?
<nigelbabu> when we have a package with delta from debian, its not autosynced next cycle?
<ScottK> It's part of the magic that allows us to support multiple Python versions at the same time when upstream totally doesn't support it.
<psusi> ScottK: couldn't hard links be used instead?
<ScottK> psusi: I don't know.
<ScottK> nigelbabu: Correct.  The packages have to either be merged or if the diff is no longer needed a sync needs to be requested.
<nigelbabu> ScottK: oh,ok.  Thanks :)
<fabrice_sp> Will the sync process change this cycle? I mean, I've been subscribing archive admin to sync request. Is it still the way to go?
<geser> yes, at least I didn't read an announcement that it changed
<fabrice_sp> ok
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Why did you think it might change?
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, because I remember a lot of emails on a sync script 1 or 2 months ago (after the luca's email, I think)
<ScottK> Ah, right.  Such a script exists, but it's not the preferred method.
<fabrice_sp> and I understood that the purpose was to allow developpersto do the sync by their own
<fabrice_sp> ok: so no changes then
<ScottK> Not yet
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-08
<plod> cd #ubuntu-packaging
<plod> woops
<apparle> I want to add a software to the repos, how to do that
<Bachstelze> apparle: either do it yourself or find someone who's interested in doing it
<Bachstelze> if you want to go with the former: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<apparle> Bachstelze: I don't know how to make a deb
<Bachstelze> then you'll have to learn
<apparle> Bachstelze: alright, will start off as soon as exams are over :P
<Bachstelze> have fun :p
<lfaraone> If I'm being contracted to do some package development for existing software in universe, should I / how should I disclose that?
<imbrandon> lfaraone: as long as the resulting package meets the Ubuntu guidelines you dont really need to IMHO
<lfaraone> imbrandon: mk. I was just reading http://producingoss.com/en/producingoss.html#contracting
<imbrandon> lfaraone: I mean you /can/ but what does it matter as long as your not trying to push something not done correctly because you feel you need to because of $$
<imbrandon> :)
 * lfaraone uploads a fix to the kernel that secretly breaks it in certain conditions due to money passed from the Russian crime syndicate. 
<Merlin> lol
<imbrandon> lol , only if the kernel wasent so well looked after and in universe that MAY work , for a short time, but then all the trust you have built up arround your name would be no good in the FLOSS world for many many years, if ever again ;)
<Merlin> unless you make your C very obfuscated
<imbrandon> then again the patch would still probably not make it to mainline, thus thwarting the effort
<Merlin> maby you guys can tell me. any news about the proxy/sudo/env-vars bug?
<imbrandon> Merlin: that dosent help much, have a bug number? ( and if you do you likely know asw much about the status as us )
<Merlin> true that yes
<Merlin> #432631 seems to be the nearest
<imbrandon> lp bug #432631
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432631 in apt "clean up system/per-user proxy handling" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432631
<Merlin> fix: adding two lines in the source of sudo
<Merlin> gues i'm rather going to skip that
<Merlin> shouldn't the fix for #432631 be in the final release
<psusi> temugen, I think you forgot to bzr add... I just pulled and still only the one file
<jdong> Hahaha temugen :)
<jdong> *recalls how many times we've been down that road* XD
<psusi> got to pay attention to the list of modified/added files when you commit ;)
<jdong> psusi: psh. bzr ci -m 'grumble grumble'
<psusi> bzr commit and let it fire up your editor ;)
<jdong> We need a qdb for the worst commit log offenders
<psusi> one line synopsis, blank line, good long descriptoin ;)
 * jdong would probably take the cake 
<jdong> psusi: this isn't git! *hides*
<psusi> shhh, yes it is ;)
<ScottK> Did someone say cake?
<Merlin> Cake at our release party: http://web.ee.sun.ac.za/~15312704/fotos/Ubuntu%20koek.jpg
<temugen> psusi: sorry! pushed.
<psusi> temugen, cool... going to test it now... reformatting my test fs atm and restoring backup to it
<psusi> I had just copied it with dd from my primary fs which apparently when I extended it with resize2fs, got laid out funny since resize2fs does not respect the flex_bg feature when adding new block groups... should perform a bit better with a proper layout
<psusi> that plus separating the directories from the normal files just might get the boot time down to 10 seconds ;)
<psusi> well, it's looking good, but there's still at least 5 more seconds in there that need knocked out: http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/643/faldaralucid201005074.png
<temugen> psusi: is my script working OK? 13 seconds isn't too bad, but I know you can hit 10 ;)
<psusi> yea... works good
<psusi> the graph is a nice tight circle
<temugen> is it still a tight circle without -f?
<psusi> I'm not sure why, but it looks like the initial open() loop still is not optimal... as you can see on that graph, the dip in middle after the initial spike
<psusi> it's a lot better than before where it was near zero
<psusi> but still not great, need to figure out why
<temugen> yea I see that
<psusi> yea, -f just makes the circle a lot smaller ;)
<temugen> awesome!
<psusi> also it looks like there's a bit of io spread out after ureadahead slowing things down... seems that some files are being read that escape ureadahead's notice
<temugen> that's not good...
<psusi> there's still about a second there that needs sucked out in taht middle dip where it's still not performing optimally... then several more seconds on io time later reading whatever it is that is not being noticed by ureadahead
<psusi> if I figure those out and fix them, should get it down to 8 seconds or so ;)
<psusi> and I realized I got the priority backwards, hehe... it should be 2 and 1, not -2 and -1
<psusi> DOH!
<temugen> psusi: heh, well... I'm sure you're capable of fixing that :P
<psusi> wait, no, I did... right?
<psusi> yea, yea, I did install the updated ureadahead... if not there wouldn't be directories there, hehe
<temugen> psusi: that was more than 8 seconds ;)
<psusi> hehe
<psusi> yea, 13 seconds is good enough for tonight, I'm fiddling with other things now ;)
<temugen> psusi: sounds good. 13 seconds is still quite an achievement imo
<psusi> it's pretty good I guess...
<psusi> but still have a ways to go
<psusi> hrm... this timevault thing seems interesting, but doesn't look like it has been worked on in some time
<imbrandon> tinevault ? like apple timemachine(tm) ?
<psusi> yea
<psusi> found it linked to on the backup wiki page
<\sh> moins
<BlackZ> could a REVU admin check why I can't upload a package? (the key in launchpad is imported).
<debfx> BlackZ: have you logged in to revu after importing the key to launchpad?
<BlackZ> debfx: fixed, thank you ;)
<debfx> if anyone feels like reviewing a small package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/clamz :)
<ScottK> Unfortunately REVU didn't cooperate: http://paste.debian.net/72531/
<ScottK> Is there a REVU admin around?  ^^^
<bilalakhtar> carstenh: are you a dd?
<ScottK> Better now.
<jcastro> ScottK: we're on the same plane going over the pond
<jcastro> there's a bunch of us
<jcastro> ScottK: that will make it bearable if we get stuck in atlanta for a week. :p
<ScottK> Yeah.  I noticed.
<ScottK> Nothing would make Atlanta bearable for a week.
<ScottK> I figure I don't need to worry about finding my way to the bus for the hotel ....
<jcastro> no
<jcastro> there's a shuttle
<ScottK> right.
<jcastro> ScottK: we get there at 8:35, the busses are from the Java Cafe right to the hotel
<ScottK> I've got the wiki page printed out and (as usual) hope it all makes sense when I get there.
<bilalakhtar> Hi people, I have a maverick base.tgz. Do I need to create another one, if I want to create packages in a debian environment?
<randomaction> bilalakhtar: you'll need a sid base.tgz for Debian environment
<bilalakhtar> randomaction: so I need to create another base?
<randomaction> yes
<bilalakhtar> randomaction: thanks, got it
<bilalakhtar> ahhh, I have to create another base..... I hate to do this..... I have a slow connection
<DktrKranz> REVU is quite crashy today
<sebner> DktrKranz: it's REVU ... and python :P
<jpds> sebner: What, no test suite? ;)
<sebner> lol
<DktrKranz> sebner: python can crash, is the rest of the world that thinks backtraces are errors, they're poetry!
<DktrKranz> *can't
<sebner> It's not a bug, it's feature then?
<DktrKranz> no
<DktrKranz> it's poetry!
<sebner> DktrKranz: poetry = feature?
<RoAkSoAx> jcastro, ping
<DktrKranz> sebner: poetry = something you learn at school by Shakespeare or whatever, feature are how to avoid to learn them
<sebner> DktrKranz: GREAT!
 * RoAkSoAx wonders if someone is at the UDS already or got his flight canceled
<RoAkSoAx> superm1, ping?
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, ping
<Sarvatt> RoAkSoAx: heyo, yeah AA88 today was cancelled
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, heya! Yeah just got back from the airport. To when did you get it changed?
<Sarvatt> superm1 is going from chicago to heathrow to brussels tomorrow instead, i got moved to AA88 tomorrow
<Sarvatt> YokoZar is going to paris today and taking a train
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, we (itnet7) and I were moved to monday AA88
<Sarvatt> well I originally was going from JFK to brussels, but that got cancelled and they put me on AA88 tomorrow and I mistakenly thought it was AA88 today when I updated the wiki :D
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, oh I see.. lucky you. we didn't get a flight
<RoAkSoAx> for tomorrow
<Sarvatt> don't know if I'd call it lucky, I'm going to assume it'll be canceled tomorrow too
<Sarvatt> so even more inconvenience finding a new flight again tomorrow most likely and the others will be filled up by the people rescheduled today :D
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, probably... because they told us that tomorrows flight was full, and we were in the miami airport like 3 hours ago
<geser> I hope you get a flight way before friday
<Sarvatt> RoAkSoAx: ack how long ago did you go to the airport? it was canceled about 3 hours ago
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, since I was flying from Miami to Chicago, I got to the airport around 8.30 MIA time, and they told us something like "The flight was canceled 10 mins ago"
<Sarvatt> it's going to be rough, arriving 8 am monday (2 am my time) and going straight into the sprints and the hotel is overbooked on monday so I have to stay somewhere else later on that night
<Sarvatt> RoAkSoAx: ah yeah 8:30 am EST was when I found out
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, at least you are arriving on monday, we are arriving on tuesday
<Sarvatt> were there no other options? superm1 said they tried to book him for AA88 on monday but he got them to put him on AA86 to heathrow on sunday instead
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, well the lady said that she tried to put us in a flight to MIA-DALLAS, DALLAS-BRU and on AA88 for tomorrow, and both flights were packed. And she also talked to the manager, and the manager itself said that there's a possiblity that flights will get canceled tomorrow too
<Sarvatt> i think superm1 is going dallas - chicago - london - brussels
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, wow... yeah they wanted to send us to dallas to but flights were packged since we wanted direct flight
<Sarvatt> wonder if it's just AA that canceled today
<Sarvatt> might be worth a call to the travel agent if so to try to get put on another airline
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, yeah that;s a possibility too
<Sarvatt> yeah bryceh's flight on delta is on time and leaving soon
<Sarvatt> AA is probably being cheap about the extra fuel costs to go around it :D
<Sarvatt> yeah, delta flights from NY and atlanta to brussels are still running
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, AA for tomorrow too
<Sarvatt> yeah for now, but the delta ones are boarding at the moment I mean so actually going through today
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, but Idk if the travel agency would be able to change our carrier
<Sarvatt> yeah not to mention it costs an undisclosed amount of money to call them outside of business hours about it :D
<Sarvatt> and they are unavailable on weekends via email, i got an autoresponder and was replied to on monday last time
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, haha well I think that the only thing we have left ot do is to contact AA and see if we can get our flights changed for tomorrow
<Sarvatt> really though I would imagine the travel agent can get a refund because of the rescheduling and can just book another airline, i got offered a few airlines when I booked it so its not like they are tied to AA
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, yeah the lady in AA just left us one option, which is weird bbecause in the website other flights are avaialble
<Sarvatt> *wishing* i took the nonstop united airlines flight now because thats going today still
 * jpds is glad for trains.
<Sarvatt> sheesh, $10,990.20 for a ticket on the UA flight today at the last minute
<ari-tczew> I'm looking for site, where are the statistics who and how many fixed bugs in development cycle e.g. lucid. do you have a link ?
<jpds> ari-tczew: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/lucid-fixes-report.html
<ari-tczew> jpds: yea! thanks!
<Sarvatt> hmm, closed a bug with another email address there. I guess sync requests use the primary email on your launchpad account
<RoAkSoAx> Sarvatt, i guerss we'll just have to wait
<jpds> RoAkSoAx / Sarvatt: FWIW: http://planet.ubuntu.com/
<RoAkSoAx> jpds, ty :)
<ScottK> Sarvatt: I suspect Canonical wouldn't cover that one.
<ari-tczew>  is it possible to get a list on launchpad with top packages uploaders?
<ari-tczew> or outside the launchpad
<zooko> Folks: are there any statistics or indications of how many people were still using Ubuntu Dapper in the wild at the beginning of 2008, and the end of 2008, and today?
<zooko> Basically, I'm trying to get a rough feel for "how quickly" do users of LTS's upgrade to the new LTS.
<zooko> Anecdotally, it is very quick. I think Dapper users considered Hardy to be good as gold and jumped right on it.
<zooko> And anecdotally, the same thing is happening with Hardy->Lucid.
<zooko> Not to mention all the people who upgraded from Hardy to non-LTS's.
<zooko> The reason I'm wondering about this is that Hardy had darcs-v1 and Lucid has darcs-v2, and I'm wondering how much effort the darcs project ought to go to in maintaining backwards compatibility with darcs-v1 executables.
<lfaraone> zooko: hm. I'm not sure if that's been studied. maybe you can get that from popcon?
<zooko> lfaraone: hm...
<zooko> lfaraone: hm, can we find something like which versions of libc or kernel are most popular on popcon?
<zooko> Uh, this just looks broken: http://popcon.ubuntu.com/main/index.html
<zooko> Oh well I will just assert without real evidence that users rapidly upgrade to new Ubuntu releases.
<maco> anki  in lucid is FTBFS and incompatible with the current webservice part of the program https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/anki/+bug/550145  <-- can i get an ACK from a member of the sru team?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 550145 in anki "Anki 0.9.9.7.8 in Lucid suffers irreparable loss of functions. sync with debian to 0.9.9.8.6-2 needed." [Medium,Confirmed]
<ScottK> zooko: Do keep in mind that it's not recommended to do the LTS to LTS upgrade until after the first point release.
<ScottK> This was true for Hardy and Lucid both.
<maco> ScottK: really?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> For Dapper - Hardy there were some serious issues that made it a REALLY good idea to wait.   For Hardy - Lucid, I'm not sure.
<maco> i dont recall seeing that recommendation on the how to upgrade wiki page
<BlackZ> if I have a fix for something, should I open a bug for SRU or just subscribe ubuntu sponsors? it's a fix for a debian package
<ScottK> maco: Automatic upgrades for Hardy - Lucid aren't offered yet.  They willbe enabled after 10.04.1.
<ScottK> BlackZ: We should fix it in Maverick first.
<BlackZ> ScottK: ok, so the patch should go for maverick, right?
<zooko> Scottk: thanks for the note.
<ScottK> Yes.
<zooko> ScottK: approximately what year-month do you expect 10.04.1?
<ScottK> zooko: 3 months after 10.04.
<zooko> Thanks.
<ScottK> You might look into a v2 backport to Hardy.
<zooko> Good idea.
<ScottK> Then you aren't required to care ....
<zooko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/410905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 410905 in hardy-backports "Please backport darcs to 2.2 to Hardy" [Undecided,In progress]
 * ScottK tries to look, but it'll take a while (bandwidth off the airplane isn't so great)
<zooko> :-)
<zooko> Where are you headed?
<ScottK> To Atlanta at the moment.  Trying to get to Brussels for UDS.
<ScottK> zooko: We'd need some people to test rdepends.
<BlackZ> ScottK: have you got some time to review a package on REVU?
<ScottK> BlackZ: Not really.
<zooko> ScottK: good luck! Have fun!
<zooko> ScottK: How would someone test rdepends?
<ScottK> One would backport darcs locally and then see if they work with it.
<ScottK> If not, you'd backport the newer rdepend too and see how that works.
<ScottK> We may end up having to backport multiple packages to get a working set.
<ScottK> I put a list in the bug.
<zooko> ScottK: thanks!
<\sh> so...preparations done, bag is packed, time to go to bed tomorrow morning I need to get up early to catch the train to brussels. See most of you tomorrow evening then  at dolce la hulpe :)
<stgraber> \sh: see you there (if I don't have an issue with my flight tomorrow :))
<\sh> stgraber, from where are you flying? :)
<stgraber> \sh: Zurich
<stgraber> \sh: so far Swiss doesn't report any canceled flight to destinations other than Barcelona, so it should be fine
<\sh> 19 airports in spain are closed
<jpds> stgraber: No train?
<\sh> (till 2000 german time)
<stgraber> jpds: yeah but I've been flying from Montreal before that (two weeks ago), so the easiest was to book the whole trip with Swiss
<stgraber> jpds: that's Montreal -> Zurich (stay two weeks there) -> Brussels and then the same thing on the way back
<stgraber> otherwise I'd have taken a TGV to Paris, then another to Brussels
 * hyperair wonders why ari-tczew just /ctcp versioned him
 * ari-tczew did an error by clicking
<hyperair> oh heh
 * ari-tczew wants only get hyperair's full name
<hyperair> haha i see
 * hyperair wonders why for
 * ari-tczew likes to know who is who and who works on what
<hyperair> haha cool
<hyperair> my whois lookup won't tell you anything though. my launchpad page might tell you more
<ari-tczew> hyperair: I know and I did it :P I check full name for sure
<hyperair> heheh
<abogani> However often people don't use as IRC nick the same name for their launchpad page...
<ari-tczew> +1 ^^
<hyperair> abogani: that's when you google for site:launchpad.net <irc nick>
<abogani> hyperair: Yeah but it works only if irc nick is registered in LP page :-)
<hyperair> abogani: well close enough.
<ari-tczew> hyperair: are you afraid due to my investigate? :)
<hyperair> ari-tczew: oh yes i am. very terrified ;-)
<hyperair> no really it's just my nature to be curious about people who find me interesting enough to look for information about me =p
 * abogani is wondering about how many hours per night hyperair sleep...
<ari-tczew> hyperair: so, my previously question, can I get on launchpad list who and how many packages has uploaded?
<hyperair> abogani: none. i sleep in the day.
<abogani> hyperair: Really?
<hyperair> ari-tczew: https://launchpad.net/~hyperair/+related-packages, i think.
<hyperair> abogani: for the past week, yes.
<hyperair> abogani: i'd like to right my body clock, but this needs enough time and willpower.
<hyperair> like it's currently 0430 here.
<abogani> hyperair: impressive
<hyperair> abogani: my record time for shifting my body clock by 12 hours is.... 1 day. but that is only from normal hours to nocturnal hours.
<hyperair> abogani: the reverse takes at least 2 days.
<ari-tczew> hyperair: I don't want to see packages uploaded by you. I want to get a list like top contributors, where I'll find who has uploaded the most packages
<abogani> cool
<hyperair> oh that.
<hyperair> i have no idea.
<hyperair> ari-tczew: i suggest asking in #launchpad
<hyperair> you could probably use the launchpad API
<ari-tczew> would be nice to have got this list (ranking, e.g. top10 packages uploaders)
<hyperair> would be interesting to know, yes.
<hyperair> and it might even encourage ubuntu developers to work harder =p
<hyperair> the competitive ones anyway
<hyperair> similar to how bugzilla points motivate some people
<ari-tczew> yea
<hyperair> ari-tczew: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+topcontributors
<ari-tczew> hyperair: I know about it. I thought about package uploaders ranking modeled on top contributors
<hyperair> ari-tczew: i don't really understand
<ari-tczew> hyperair: nevermind, you know what I mean :P
<ari-tczew> hyperair: I think that it's not hard to create tables with 10 top package uploaders and include to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+topcontributors
<hyperair> then why don't you do it? =p
 * jpds prefers quality not quantity.
<ari-tczew> hyperair: because I can't :D
<hyperair> jpds: i prefer quality *and* quantity.
<ari-tczew> jpds: this is just for information, not necessarily lead to rivalry
<jpds> hyperair: No, you can't have pony.
<hyperair> jpds: pony?
<ari-tczew> hyperair: could you show me a source code of https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+topcontributors +related-packages ?
<jpds> ari-tczew: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/annotate/head%3A/lib/lp/registry/browser/karma.py
<ari-tczew> thanks
<maco> so there's a package that ftbfs in lucid and a buildable package of a new release (that also fixes bugs caused by api changes) in sid. jdong says he'll only ok an sru on lucid if i first get it synced in maverick. can i just use the same bug report and put lucid & maverick targets on it and call that a sync bug?
<imbrandon> maco: as long as it has all the needed information, but i wouold do one at a time personaly
<imbrandon> just so not to confuse those doing the archive work
<hyperair> maco: i'd just use syncpackage and upload it to maverick, then mark it fix released and add a lucid target.
<maco> hyperair: sycpackage?
<hyperair> maco: assuming you've got upload rights for that package, of course.
<maco> i do
<hyperair> maco: yeah, the script you run on a .changes file that allows you to dput syncs instead of waiting for an archive admin to take care of it
<maco> however i did not know about syncpackage. i thought syncs always required bugging archive admins
<hyperair> it was posted on ubuntu-devel sometime
<maco> thank you!
<hyperair> maco: thank pitti, i think. he wrote it.
<maco> hold on...how do i get it?
<maco> its not in ubuntu-dev-tools
<hyperair> http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/syncpackage-ppa
<hyperair> i think
<hyperair> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/scripts/syncpackage
<hyperair> the original
<hyperair> maco: ^^
<maco> wee that should get added to ubuntu-dev-tools totally
<imbrandon> its in there
<hyperair> it's in bzr i think
<imbrandon> but not installed in lucid ( its in the source ) because its not the prefered way
<imbrandon> but if you apt-get source ubuntu-dev-tools the script is there ;)
<imbrandon> the prefered way is click the ( non-existant ) button on lp to sync the package as a ubuntu-dev, thus the script exists
<maco> um that didnt work
<maco> oh goody non-existent buttons
<hyperair> ?
<hyperair> heh
<maco> anyway it yelled at me and told me apt-cache madison didnt know about the package in maverick so screw me
<hyperair> lol
<hyperair> add deb-src lines for maverick.
<maco> i need to have maverick in sources.list i guess?
<imbrandon> maco: hehe yea its a bug in lp that will be fixed sometime this cycle ( the non-existant bug )
<hyperair> yay buttons
<imbrandon> maco: i dont think so
<hyperair> imbrandon: yes, it's needed for apt-cache madison
<hyperair> maco: ^
<maco> hyperair:  wins
<imbrandon> but thats the old script/way
<imbrandon> the new one uses LP
<hyperair> not "old", "current"
<hyperair> until LP gets its button, this isn't old
<imbrandon> umm well old as in not the one in ubutnu-dev-tools
<imbrandon> that uses lp api vs madison
<maco> you know it tells me successfully signed blah blah (since i assume the debian signature isnt enough for upload) but it doesnt actually anything at all about having done anything of an uploading nature
<hyperair> oh i see.
<hyperair> maco: it modifies the .changes and signs it using your key. now you can dput it
<maco> ooooh ok
<imbrandon> maco: it doesent actualy upload it, it just modified the changes so LP wont reject the upload from you
<hyperair> yeah i was confused the first time as well =p
<maco> not a one-shot thing
<hyperair> you could add an alias and make it oneshot =p
<superm1> Sarvatt, more or less (starting AUS though)
<imbrandon> superm1: ! ltns
 * maco goes to stare at /ubuntu/lucid and watch for it to say i uploaded something
<imbrandon> maco: :)
<hyperair> maco: you mean maverick.
<maco> er yeah that
<maco> brain: stop being stupid
<hyperair> lol
<imbrandon> hyperair: yea the new script in ubuntu-dev-tools uses LP api instead of madison, but it still needs some work before its actualy installed via the package ( it works now but requires LP credentials but could all be done anon, thus the needs fixing )
<superm1> imbrandon, si, you join at UDS?
<hyperair> imbrandon: i see.
<imbrandon> superm1: not this time :(
<maco> hrmmm
<hyperair> imbrandon: i'd prefer it just use rmadison though.
<savvas0> Is anyone in charge of udev package online to check out bug #577565 please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 577565 in udev "r8169: eth0: link down - eth0 / eth1 udev rules for same device" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/577565
<imbrandon> superm1: i should be at the next one, i can usaly make every other one
<maco> doesnt the /ubuntu/<release> page usually have a link the queue where right now it instead has some bit about upstream links?
<imbrandon> maco: jsut add /+queue
<maco> imbrandon: i know that, but where'd teh button go?
<maco> why are launchpad buttons always moving about?
<jpds> maco: "Show uploads"
<imbrandon> heh, no idea, its been a gripe of mine for a long time
<maco> oh it moved down 2 inhes
<hyperair> i hate launchpad, simply because it's so goddamned slow
<maco> *inches
<savvas0> it's not slow, it's overcrowded :)
<zooko> hyperair: fixing that is apparently a priority.
<hyperair> zooko: one hell of a priority that is, considering it's been this slow since its inception.
<zooko> I don't know if it was a priority before this year.
<hyperair> savvas0: i suppose, but i get miserable speeds from PPAs.
<imbrandon> maco: Upload by Mackenzie Morgan 6 minutes ago  ( <-- i'm asuming that you by the name similarity , anyhow you its in the queue )
<maco> yep yep i see
<imbrandon> :)
<jpds> hyperair: You live, quite a distance from London?
<hyperair> jpds: something like 8 hours away in terms of time zones.
<hyperair> jpds: oh and i've got eternal summer.
<JontheEchidna> jdong: plingy on bug 517962. This sru should be a bit more straightforward, to say the least ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 517962 in kdebase "nepomukservicestub crashed with SIGSEGV in Soprano::Plugin::pluginName()" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517962
<jdong> JontheEchidna: looks good to me, ACKed!
<JontheEchidna> k, thanks
<maco> if i want to subscribe archive admins to a bug, is that ubuntu-mirror-admins?
<maco> or is there some other lp way to poke archive admins instead of my usual "convince StevenK in PM to do my bidding"
<JontheEchidna> maco: ubuntu-archive is the team to add
<maco> JontheEchidna: ah. thanks
<JontheEchidna> no prob
<jpds> maco: That team manages other LP stuff. ;)
<maco> jpds: okie
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-09
<Bachstelze> guys, what do with #577627 ? it could warrant a SRU, but I'm not familiar with the process
<Bachstelze> oho wow, I really need to go to bed, there's one from 2 months ago already >.>
<lfaraone> bug 577627
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 577627 in php-mcrypt "Shipped config file uses deprecated "#" comment" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/577627
<lfaraone> Bachstelze: Warnings like that probably do not meet the SRU criteria. Will the problem cause applications to fail?
<Bachstelze> nope, I wonder why it's still there, though
<Bachstelze> given it was reported before the release
<lfaraone> Bachstelze: nobody found it, and the user did not subscribe ubuntu-sponsors.
<lfaraone> Bachstelze: can you provide a command that demostrates the issue?
<Bachstelze> anything with php-cli
<Bachstelze> like  php --version
<Bachstelze> with mcrypt installed
<Bachstelze> there's also a bunch of other extensions with the same problem
<lfaraone> Bachstelze: I see.
<lfaraone> Bachstelze: It might be useful to report the problems when they occur to the upstream maintainers, as well as Debian. Carrying an ubuntu delta for a bunch of packages just to fix deprecation warnings seems a bit overkill if you can get upstream or Debian to cooperate.
<lfaraone> *as to Debian
<Bachstelze> it's fiit was fixed in Debian in 5.3.2-1
<lfaraone> Bachstelze: Okay. The reason it was not fixed in Ubuntu was because the patch provided by the original reporter did  not fix the problem.
<lfaraone> (Reading bug 540208, from what I can tell)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540208 in php-mcrypt "deprecated comment in mcrypt.ini" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540208
<Bachstelze> lfaraone: you can also mark #577591 as a duplicate (or Invalid)
<lfaraone> Bachstelze: already done.
<Bachstelze> no, you did 577627 ;)
 * hyperair wonders when the debian autosync begins
<imbrandon> hyperair: i'd assume sometime monday durring UDS when someone has time to turn the bits on
<hyperair> oh cool
<imbrandon> maybe later today if someone is stuck in transit or got there early
<imbrandon> but again this is just my guess , from prior cycles
<imbrandon> but its normaly very very soon after the "archive open" email comes
<imbrandon> they also may be waiting for the default gcc discussion too
<hyperair> i see.
<om26er> how do I know which package is synced from debian and which is not?. after packaging a newer version if I get 'we sync this from debian' thats not good.
<nigelbabu> om26er: packages without ubuntu specific changes are synced from debian
<om26er> nigelbabu, that would make it more than 80%packages?
<nigelbabu> om26er: yup
<om26er> thanks nigelbabu
<BlackZ> if there are bugs in some files of the debian package which I'm packaging from scratch, is it better to apply a patch for the files or modify the files instead? (license: GPL3 +)
<BlackZ> s/debian package/source
<astraljava> BlackZ: From what I understand, you should be patching, as you're not upstream, are you?
<BlackZ> astraljava: no
<BlackZ> astraljava: OK, I've patched it. Thanks ;)
<imbrandon> ScottK: can you prod a package through binary NEW ?
<imbrandon> the source package is the same as before, it just builds a few more binarys now ( from a debian sync )
<imbrandon> btw hopefully your flight(s) were uneventful :)
<imbrandon> i saw crimsun and a few others wernt so lucky
<ScottK> imbrandon: I made it.  What package?
<imbrandon> ScottK: opensync
<imbrandon> is the source package
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> Love the debian/changelog entry.
<azeem> yeah
<azeem> one of my favourite messups!
<imbrandon> heh what part?
<azeem> http://packages.qa.debian.org/o/opensync/news/20100206T230242Z.html
<imbrandon> ahh
<nigelbabu> oh what a messup indeed!
<nigelbabu> and what is 'unreleased'!
<azeem> it's a secret Debian distribution which will reclaim victory from Ubuntu
<azeem> got accidently leaked through this upload
<nigelbabu> yes, and they tend to not have changelog entires to confuse us :D
<ScottK> imbrandon: Done.
<imbrandon> ScottK: ty
<nigelbabu> azeem: I wonder, isn't lintian supposed to catch such type of mistakes?
<azeem> the guy probably didn't run lintian
<azeem> imbrandon, ScottK: http://packages.qa.debian.org/o/opensync/news/20100509T130257Z.html
<ScottK> Revisonism ...
<ScottK> We'll get it on the next autosync run.
<azeem> ScottK: there was a subversion tag of -3 with those changes already, so...
<azeem> plus it fixes an RC bug
<ScottK> It will come in the next autosync run.
<azeem> sure
<laymansterms> Hi, I need to get a dependency packaged for a piece of software that I work on. The dependency I need is very similar to another package that is already in universe. What is the best way to get in contact with the packager? The package in question is pyclutter-gtk.
<nigelbabu> laymansterms: look at changelog and get in touch with last updater
<nigelbabu> especially if that person has @ubuntu or @debian email ID
<laymansterms> nigelbabu, the ChangeLog for pyclutter-gtk says it was generated by 'configure.' Does that matter?
<laymansterms> or should I still try to contact that person?
<maco> ChangeLog? no, look at debian/changelog
<nigelbabu> um, yeah debian/changelog
<laymansterms> oh, oops. Sorry, I forget about the debian changelog.
 * laymansterms has very little packaging experience.
<laymansterms> nigelbabu, the email in the changelog is a debian email address. Do you know of a good channel to ask in? Something equivalent to #ubuntu-motu for Debian?
<nigelbabu> #debian-mentors on oftc
<hyperair> someone with a notebook with one battery please tell me what battery number you have (/sys/class/power_supply/BATN)
<ScottK> laymansterms: If the package comes straight from Debian unmodified, I'd email the maintainer
<hyperair> apparently mine's BAT1, but conky hardcodes BAT0
<laymansterms> ScottK, okay, I'll give that a shot.
<ScottK> hyperair: BAT1 on a Dell mini 10v.
<laymansterms> nigelbabu, thanks.
<hyperair> ScottK: thanks.
<hyperair> anyone else?
<nigelbabu> hyperair: one sec
<maco> ScottK: so, what country are you in?
<nigelbabu> hyperair: BAT0
<ScottK> maco: Belgium.
<hyperair> nigelbabu: interesting.
<hyperair> nigelbabu: so only some computers are affected. whee.
<maco> ScottK: ok so you made it then. dan's plane got a flat tire last night and wasnt allowed to cross the ocean. i think he's hanging out at the airport on standby right now
<BlackZ> could a MOTU review/advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/autotrash ? thanks
<nigelbabu> maco: oh, dan still doesn't have  flight?
<maco> nigelbabu: well he came home last night and was still here when i went out this morning
<ScottK> maco: Ouch.
<maco> but he's gone now, so i assume at airport
<imbrandon> hyperair: mine also is BAT1
<imbrandon> hyperair: toshiba , old intel celeron m based laptop
<imbrandon> ScottK: are autosyncs on/running now ?
<ScottK> I think it was run the first time earlier toda.
<ScottK> y
<ScottK> Not sure how it worked out.
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> how often does merges.u.c update ?
<geser> imbrandon: cjwatson started one
<imbrandon> geser: great
<ScottK> imbrandon: I think /6 hoours
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> trying to plan for my next 2 days, gonna be offline for 4 hours chunks 3x over the next 2 days
<imbrandon> so i'm trying to stack a bit of "offline" stuff to do
<geser> the buildds are busy the next three days at least
<imbrandon> oh i'm sure
<imbrandon> i got some "real" work to do also ( as in my day job ) so i'll likely do some of that too
<imbrandon> ScottK: i tell you i switched companies ?
<ScottK> imbrandon: I thought you started your own store, or is that just a side job?
<imbrandon> ScottK: thats just a side thing , online only
<imbrandon> ScottK: i went to work for the company BenC is working at now, actualy working on the same project ;)
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> I see.
<ScottK> No, you hadn't mentioned it.
<imbrandon> yes, its really a quite cool project, and its based on Ubuntu LTS , woot
<imbrandon> its mostly a 4 to 5 guy team, he is doing the drive/kernel stuff, i got the front end, and there there is some SA and QA guys
<imbrandon> driver*
<laymansterms> hello again, is there a Ubuntu meta package that is helpful for installing helpful packaging tools? I feel like there is but I can't remember the name of it. devscripts or something.
<c_korn> laymansterms: correct, http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/devscripts
<laymansterms> c_korn, I just did an apt-cache search for "packaging" and saw ubuntu-dev-tools. Do you know the difference between devscripts and ubuntu-dev-tools?
<hyperair> laymansterms: and ubuntu-dev-tools
<hyperair> laymansterms: devscripts originates from debian.
<laymansterms> I'd like to use bzr builddeb... is that plugin in one of those packages?
<hyperair> laymansterms: ubuntu-dev-tools is ubuntu-specific.
<hyperair> bzr builddeb is a package of its own afaik
<imbrandon> laymansterms: use both, devscripts is more generic but required and u-d-t makes your life easier ;)
<laymansterms> imbrandon, ubuntu-dev-tools says it replaces devscripts
<imbrandon> laymansterms: yea it probably has some of the updated scripts , it used to depend on it
<imbrandon> now probably encompases it
<laymansterms> it's weird: Depends: devscripts Conflicts: devscripts Replaces: devscripts
<laymansterms> (lines from apt-cache depends ubuntu-dev-tools)
<imbrandon> hum
<crimsun> imbrandon: congrats. Good to be able to hook people up
<imbrandon> crimsun: ty ty
<imbrandon> crimsun: i already got some of the hardware in hand to install monday, looks like its going to be a fun project
<crimsun> nice
<imbrandon> crimsun: did you finaly make it , or still waiting somewhere in-between
<crimsun> imbrandon: I'm still at the origin; our rebooked flight is scheduled for 1715 departure from Dulles
<crimsun> four of us are going to be dragging at the opening meeting
<imbrandon> heh i bet, that sucks
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-02
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> G'morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<talat> Hi i want to rebuild/repackage python2.6 package. is it possible ?
<huats> morning
<directhex> talat, why?
<talat> directhex: i am turkish locale user. Python2.6 now not work in Turkish locale. i want to aplly this patch http://bugs.python.org/issue1813
<talat> i found patched in python2.5 by doko. But i dont know why he is not apply this patch in 2.6 i want to aplly this patch
<talat> directhex: you can see python2.5 issue 18143 patch in debian patch list http://patch-tracker.debian.org/package/python2.5/2.5.5-11
<talat> directhex: can you help me rebuild python2.6 package ?
<directhex> talat, it's a sufficiently major package not to come under -motu remit. try #ubuntu-devel
<talat> ok directhex thnx
<dupondje>   ca-certificates: Depends: openssl (>= 1.0.0) but it is not going to be installed.
<dupondje> but openssl is in oneiric ? Or am I missing something :)
<Laney> it's in NEW
<dupondje> ah ok
<achiang> fta: hey, do you know what gconf keys chromium sets in order to be known as the default browser?
<fta> achiang, it's not a gconf key, it uses xdg-mime
<fta> achiang, xdg-mime query default x-scheme-handler/http
<achiang> fta: ah! that's why setting /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/[http|https] is ineffective. :)
<fta> xdg-settings is supposed to do the right thing depending on the DE
<fta> achiang, ^^, do you have a problem with it? it's supposed to work fine (it sure works fine here)
<achiang> fta: well, i'm working on a derivative, and just trying to preseed chromium as the default browser, and it's not working, so trying to figure out why
<achiang> fta: hm, that xdg-mime invocation returns back an empty string
<fta> achiang, xdg-settings set default-web-browser chromium-browser.desktop  should do the job
<fta> achiang, in natty, or /usr/lib/chromium-browser/xdg-settings in older releases
<achiang> fta: you mean, use chromium-browser's copy of xdg-settings? (yes, this is an older release)
 * micahg wonders why we're shipping chromium's xdg-settings
<fta> achiang, yep, the copy should work everywhere
<achiang> fta: ah, thank you. one more dumb question, should that be safe to run from a maintainer script?
<envygeeks> Does Ubuntu use an orphan adoption round like Debian?
<micahg> envygeeks: no, ubuntu doesn't have maintainers, all packages are shared
<fta> achiang, hm, the maintainer script runs as root, right? the xdg stuff is per user
<achiang> fta: yeah, it runs as root. i already have a mechanism to do things on first boot (as the user) so i can just call the script from there.
<achiang> fta: thank you!
<fta> achiang, good. anyway, if it doesn't work as a user, it means xdg-utils is broken (as the copy is basically what natty has)
<achiang> fta: got it. i think it should be fine though
<dupondje> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/70947561/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.dirmngr_1.1.0-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dupondje> why did this fail ? :s
<geser> dupondje: armel is broken
<geser> dupondje: bug #774175
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 774175 in apt (Ubuntu Oneiric) "apt segfaults on armel in oneiric" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774175
<BlackZ> cdbs: there's no point in merging amsn from Debian (and I'm going to upload a fix for the FTBFS soon)
<BlackZ> cdbs: I'd rather wait for the next Debian revision
<dupondje> geser: thx :) was thinking that I did smth wrong
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-dev-tools/+spec/other-o-udt-debian (if we want a discussion)
<dupondje> to bad I don't have upload rights :( will have alot of sync / merge requests :P
<micahg> dupondje: how do you think you get upload rights? :)
<dupondje> by stalking :D
<dupondje> lots of syncs / merges to do :)
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: thanks for creating it. it was on my todo list :)
<tumbleweed> np
<tumbleweed> bleh, that title was bad, renamed.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-03
<cdbs> BlackZ: did I mark the merge for myself?
<cdbs> Okay, Lorenzo isn't here
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> I have been updating local ubuntu mirror using debmirror since last saturday it has just reached 29%. is there a way to populate it quicker ?
<micahg> kaushal: use a faster mirror?
<kaushal> micahg: shall i pastebin the deb mirror script ?
<micahg> kaushal: it's normal for things to be a little slow right after release
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> It takes almost close to 10 days to get it populated whenever there is a new release
<kaushal> Any workaround ?
<kaushal> micahg: I am using in.archive.ubuntu.com
<kaushal> server=in.archive.ubuntu.com
<micahg> kaushal: that's in the canonical DC, a local mirror might be faster
<kaushal> DC mean Data Center
<micahg> yes
<kaushal> local mirror ?
<kaushal> not sure i understand that
<micahg> kaushal: geo-local
<kaushal> Mumbai, India
<micahg> kaushal: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
<kaushal> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror/ftp.iitb.ac.in-archive
<kaushal> Last update unknown
<kaushal> so what would be the server=...... value ?
<kaushal> Net::FTP: Bad hostname 'ftp://ftp.iitb.ac.in/distributions/ubuntu/archives/'
<kaushal> Net::FTP: Bad hostname 'ftp://ftp.iitb.ac.in'
<micahg> kaushal: get rid of ftp://
 * ScottK generally believes in that.
<micahg> +1
<kaushal> [0%] Getting: dists/hardy-security/Release... dists/hardy-security/Release failed 500 read timeout
<kaushal> micahg: wierd
<kaushal> micahg: Any clue ?
<micahg> kaushal: nope, no idea
<micahg> there's a new debmirror in unstable :)
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/602600/
<micahg> kaushal: you need the rest of the path to the ubuntu repo
<micahg> ftp.iitb.ac.in/distributions/ubuntu/archives/
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> micahg: Thanks
<kaushal> micahg: much appreciated
<kaushal> always helpful
<kaushal> :)
<kaushal> I love it
<dupondje> Hi. Some small question about a merge. debdiff included should be from debian version vs ubuntu merged version? Or previous ubuntu version vs merged version?
<tumbleweed> from the new debian version. From the previous ubuntu version too, if that's more readable.
<geser> for me the DebianâUbuntu debdiffs are easier to check as I can better see what delta is still there and if it matches the changelog entry
<Rhonda> I wonder why bug #565182 never was forwarded to Debian   *sigh*
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 565182 in Irssi "security regression: SSL CN check breaks IRC proxy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565182
 * Rhonda . o O ( and which the mentioned security update was )
<Rhonda> Ah, found it
<Rhonda> Ah. Got considered as minor issues.
<Rhonda> nigelb: can the upstream bug you added in bug #493048 get linked somehow?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 493048 in irssi (Ubuntu) "Tab-completion of channel names cannot be properly used with /join in irssi" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/493048
<nigelb> Rhonda: no. that tracker doesn't work wwith LP :\
<Rhonda> No flyspray support in LP?
<Rhonda> It's not as if that would be such an uncommon bug tracker, to be honest â¦  *sigh*
<Rhonda> It's even packaged for Ubuntu  :P
<Rhonda> Erm, or not. what the, I thought it was
<Rhonda> in dapper only, last time
<nigelb> Yeah, I remember doing that a while back.
<Laney> looks removed
<Rhonda> is
<G> is there a good guide for someone to look at regarding maintaining packages under Bazaar? (Merging, proposing bugfixes etc)
<geser> G: try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation
<G> geser: thanks
<Rhonda> G: specificly, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#Revision%20control%20%28Bazaar%29
<Rhonda> And the links from there
<G> Rhonda: thanks
<Rhonda> Looking for backports ACKs for Bug #734731
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 734731 in lucid-backports "Please backport irssi (0.8.15-2ubuntu1/main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/734731
 * Rhonda . o O ( also looking for endorsements for my PPU application: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GerfriedFuchs/DeveloperApplication )
<Rhonda> uhm â¦
<Rhonda> Is launchpad having troubles with debbugs?
<Rhonda> Actually I wonder why bug #511912 still does show up in my bug list, shouldn't it get hidden because it's set to wontfix?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 511912 in irssi (Debian) "Make a menu item for Irssi" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/511912
<Rhonda> And why does it claim the debbugs number is invalid?
<ScottK> Rhonda: re backports, commented in the bug.
 * Rhonda . o O ( I need to make my matcher urxvt extension smarter so that bug numbers in here go to LP and not the Debian BTS â¦ )
<Rhonda> ScottK: -2 contains a fix for a crash. Actually, I just uploaded -3 to Debian which would even reduce the ubuntu diff (pulling two patches from it), and add another fix. :)
<ScottK> Rhonda: Sounds like we should do an SRU for maverick and than backport that.
<Rhonda> Right, the patch actually should be acceptable as SRU indeed.
<ScottK> How about if we backport 1ubuntu1 from maverick to lucid now and then update the backport once the SRU is done?
<Rhonda> Would work, yes. There are some fixes in 0.8.15 that people should be able to receive in an easy way.
<ScottK> I'll mark up the bug and approve it then.
<ScottK> Please ping me again after the SRU is in -updates and we'll do it again.
<ScottK> Rhonda: It shows up in your bug list due to the Debian task being open.
<Rhonda> Which it isn't, thus the question wether there are issues with debbugs.
<Rhonda> But I think this has to be taken up to the launchpad people. What was the channel again?
<ScottK> Rhonda: It's #launchpad.
<dupondje> Hi, can somebody give his opinion on my patch in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/toonloop/+bug/775588
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 775588 in toonloop (Ubuntu) "Merge toonloop 2.0.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<G> sorry, potentially silly question, merge includes a new patch to fix a FTBFS issue, if I commit while the new patch is 'quilt push'ed, then if I debcommit, then the changes the patch makes will be committed to the Ubuntu bzr branch,  (from my understanding) is this correct, or should the first commit of the new patch, be with it bzr pop'd back to the last previously commited patch
<paultag> G: the commited files should be patched, otherwise it will complain
<paultag> last I checked anyway
<paultag> :)
<tumbleweed> for source format 3.0, patches should be applied. For source format 1.0 + quilt, they shouldn't be
<highvoltage> good morning
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: hi
<G> paultag: so : bzr diff -r tag:<lastdebiantag> should include the changes I made to the files for the patch, plus debian/patches/foo.patch
<G> tumbleweed: okay, yep debian/source/format says 3.0
<paultag> G: my bzr know-how is crap, I use git :)
<G> so I commit both sets of changes
<tumbleweed> G: that diff should include the current ubuntu delta
<tumbleweed> nothing else
<tumbleweed> (err and stuff in .pc)
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: got my visa approved just in time, so at least I'll make it to uds this time :)
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: well done :)
<G> tumbleweed: the debdiff atm looks like: http://pastebin.com/PjMNQe6N
<G> so I'm guessing that's what you mean abotu current ubuntu delta
<tumbleweed> G: I'd revert all the po stuff, it isn't relevant
<G> tumbleweed: yep, I'd been looking at that
<G> tumbleweed: but as far as committing .pc/applied_patches, configure.in (modifications) etc, that is correct?
<tumbleweed> G: yes it's ugly, but it's correct
<tumbleweed> the po changes are probably just due to the package not cleaning properly
<Laney> you can put unapply-patches in debian/source/local-options to not have them applied in the VCS
<tumbleweed> Laney: I wouldn't want to do that in UDD. Part of the aim of UDD is uniformity.
<dupondje> Can somebody give his opinion on my patch in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/toonloop/+bug/775588
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 775588 in toonloop (Ubuntu) "Merge toonloop 2.0.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<G> tumbleweed: thanks for the help
<G> tumbleweed: pushing my branch now :)
<Laney> I would like to have it uniformly applied everywhere indeed
<Laney> looms would be even better
<tumbleweed> Laney: +1 to both of those
<G> so, if I'm taking the UDD appreach, do I just do a merge proposal, and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to one of the bugs that I'm fixing?
<tumbleweed> G: no need to subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<tumbleweed> the merge proposal will be picked up by the sponsorship queue
<G> oh just merge-proposal
<G> tumbleweed: done, thanks
<G> I take it the bugs should all be 'In Progress' too (does assignment matter, i.e. if they are assigned/unassigned etc?)
<tumbleweed> G: when you are getting sponsorship via merge proposal, it doesn't matter. When using a bug with ubuntu-sponsors subscribed, it should be New/Confirmed, with no assignees.
<tumbleweed> it doesn't matter too much, but the status may be used by anyone reviewing it, to make it clear that more work is required
<G> tumbleweed: okay
<udienz> G: hello
<udienz> you can take zabbix merge, sorry for delay
<stlsaint> hey would learning the packaging process thru using a chroot as build environment be good or would a live install server better?
<stlsaint> hyperair: o/
<hyperair> stlsaint: \o
<stlsaint> hyperair: hey would learning the packaging process thru using a chroot as build environment be good or would a live install server better?
<hyperair> stlsaint: i build my things in a chroot.
<hyperair> stlsaint: something like pbuilder/cowbuilder or sbuild would be good.
<stlsaint> hyperair: if i want to build for ubuntu would lubuntu server as a well environment
<hyperair> stlsaint: at the core, ubuntu and lubuntu are no different.
<hyperair> stlsaint: lubuntu is ubuntu with a different set of packages installed.
<stlsaint> hyperair: yea thats what i understood as much, just wanting to make sure before i start off, thanks for the info
<hyperair> np
<hyperair> and good luck. =)
<stlsaint> thanks mate
<dupondje> Can somebody give his opinion on my patch in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/toonloop/+bug/775588
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 775588 in toonloop (Ubuntu) "Merge toonloop 2.0.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<geser> dupondje: looks good (from a formal point, didn't check if your changes are correct but they look ok)
<dupondje> geser: thanks for checking
<tumbleweed> dupondje: you can just subscribe sponsors, and somone will get to it soonish
<Rhonda> huhm
<Rhonda> where does the software center take the icons from?
<Rhonda> Because I got a report that wesnoth doesn't has one in there.
<highvoltage> from the cloud
<highvoltage> (sorry just kidding)
<Rhonda> *sigh* :)
<geser> Rhonda: hmm, an .xpm for wesnoth is included in app-install-data and the Icon entry in the .desktop file for wesnoth mentions it
<quadrispro> hi guys
<Rhonda> geser: .xpm? .png
<geser> /usr/share/app-install/icons/wesnoth-1.8-icon.xpm and /usr/share/app-install/icons/wesnoth-1.8_editor-icon.xpm
<Rhonda> grep Icon /usr/share/applications/wesnoth-1.8.desktop
<Rhonda> Icon=wesnoth-1.8-icon
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> ah
<Rhonda> so not /usr/share/icons/wesnoth-1.8-icon.png
<Rhonda> But nevertheless, why isn't it displayed?
<geser> the same Icon entry in /usr/share/app-install/desktop/wesnoth-1.8.desktop
<Rhonda> geser: So you have no clue neither? :)
<geser> no
<geser> Rhonda: I tried editing /usr/share/app-install/desktop/wesnoth-1.8.desktop and appended ".xpm" to the Icon and after a "update-software-center" I have an icon visible
<geser> but I don't understand why it's needed as the .desktop file for zsnes doesn't contain a file extension either and also only has a .xpm file and it works there
<geser> Rhonda: might be the "." in the Icon name as renaming the icon to wesnoth-18-icon.xpm and updating the .desktop file (without adding an extension) works too
<Rhonda> geser: Hmmmm
<geser> Rhonda: might be bug 745942
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745942 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Icons not displayed for paid apps with a . in their package name" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745942
<Rhonda> AH
<Rhonda> Thanks for finding that one :)
<c2tarun> need some help with the merge. there is a package atom4_4.1-4ubuntu1 in our archive, the change in it is included in its new debian version atom4_4.1-5. To check whether its a sync and not merge what should I check?
<geser> c2tarun: test-build in oneiric
<c2tarun> geser: can you help me in understanding this file a bit please http://paste.ubuntu.com/602971/
<c2tarun> geser: I should keep the Maintainer as Ubuntu Developers?
<geser> c2tarun: yes, keep Maintainer and XSBC-Original-Maintainer from the Ubuntu part and Build-Depends and Standards-Version from the Debian part
<c2tarun> geser: got it :) just for confirmation, can you please check this control file http://paste.ubuntu.com/602972/
<geser> this happens when a change couldn't get applied during a merge because the surrounding context changed
<geser> looks good
<geser> c2tarun: do you still have other changes left? because if the Maintainer change is the only one left -> sync instead of a merge
<c2tarun> geser: the changes made in ubuntu version is included in the latest debian version. I can show you the patch files
<c2tarun> geser: here is ubuntu1.patch file http://paste.ubuntu.com/602974/ and here is debian patch file http://paste.ubuntu.com/602975/
<geser> as the Ubuntu delta is part of a bigger patch in Debian, this should be a sync
<geser> if it builds in oneiric of course
<c2tarun> geser: yeah, trying to build it on oneiric now.
<c2tarun> geser: can you please look at this error http://paste.ubuntu.com/602978/
<c2tarun> geser: it is due to upstream I guess. :/
<geser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags#Ignoring%20return%20code%20of%20write%28%29
<c2tarun> geser: this is the code fragment that is causing the problem http://paste.kde.org/49753/ according to document should I change it to http://paste.kde.org/49759/ ?
<c2tarun> geser: well I should declare written as well. anything apart from that?
<geser> c2tarun: "count" and "buf" need to be replaced with the proper values, you might need to set them before the do {} loops as you modify them inside the loops
<geser> c2tarun: perhaps slangasek can help you a little bit on how to apply his template from the wiki page
 * geser is going to bed
<slangasek> my template?
<c2tarun> slangasek: hey :) can you help me with this error?
<slangasek> oh, did I write that?  hmm :)
<geser> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags#Ignoring%20return%20code%20of%20write%28%29 contains thanks to you
<slangasek> yeah, that rings a bell
<c2tarun> slangasek: what changes should I make?
<slangasek> c2tarun: cooking an untested patch now
<c2tarun> slangasek: ok.
<c2tarun> slangasek: ping
<slangasek> c2tarun: see if this builds for you? http://paste.ubuntu.com/602994/
<c2tarun> slangasek: one more help please, that package is not following any patching system, so should I introduce a patchsystem or I should simply apply and then generate a diff?
<slangasek> c2tarun: there are existing changes to the upstream source, so I would just apply it directly
<c2tarun> slangasek: its not building, here is the error log http://paste.ubuntu.com/602999/
<slangasek> c2tarun: erm.  that's with the patch applied?
<slangasek> well, the line number changed, so I guess so
<slangasek> but that's strange, gcc is being even more picky than necessary
<c2tarun> slangasek: yeah that is with the patch.
<slangasek> sorry, I don't have more time to look at this right now; if you use that template from the wiki page (requires declaring a few more variables in advance), that will fix it reliably
<c2tarun> slangasek: but I dont know what are those variables for?
<c2tarun> slangasek: should I simply declare them and use them?
<c2tarun> slangasek: and what should I mention in /* Handle error */ part?
<slangasek> these are precisely the questions that I don't have time to look at just now, sorry... :)
<slangasek> perhaps someone else is around who speaks C and has time to look at it
<geser> c2tarun: you could try to assign the return value to a variable before checking the result with assert from slangasek's patch
<geser> something like "ssize_t unused;", "unused = write(fd, &m.x, sizeof(m.x));", "assert(unused > 0);". perhaps that makes gcc happy
 * c2tarun trying
<c2tarun> geser: well against expectations it worked :)
<c2tarun> wow...
<c2tarun> geser: I guess this calls for a merge now?
<geser> it's not a typical merge as we have no old Ubuntu delta to preserve but a new one, but yes you can call it "merge"
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-04
<evaluate> Hello.
<evaluate> There is a fix for a pretty serious bug for a package in natty. I currently can't upload it to Debian because of the perl transition. Can someone update it in Ubuntu directly or should I best mail the maintainer of the package in Ubuntu?
<micahg> evaluate: which package?
<evaluate> micahg, http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/clipit
<evaluate> The bug which I'm talking about is bug #702316
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 702316 in clipit (Ubuntu) "Generic Libindicate fallback support breaks applications (such as clipit) on non-Unity WMs/DEs" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/702316
<evaluate> And it is fixed in the 1.3.13 release, which is available on http://sourceforge.net/projects/gtkclipit/files/Version%201/
<micahg> evaluate: best to file a bug, prepare debdiffs for oneiric and natty-proposed and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<evaluate> I wasn't talking about oneiric, I rather thought about a SRU for natty...
<micahg> evaluate: SRUs have to go to dev release first :)
<evaluate> oic
<micahg> evaluate: it would be the same debdiff, just a different version/suite
<evaluate> Is this the procedure you're reffering to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff ?
<micahg> evaluate: yeah
<Rhonda> Can we get the next release done sooner? I fear I might mistype the codename far too regularly for it to be useful.
<micahg> evaluate: version is ubuntu2 for oneiric and ubuntu1.1 for natty-proposed
<micahg> Rhonda: 5.5 months isn't soon enough?
<evaluate> ok, I'll try to go through that...
<Rhonda> micahg: I fear I will have to type it too often in that time. :)
 * micahg guesses debian is easier since it's almost always unstable or experimental
<Rhonda> almost always fits pretty well, though I am one of these rare persons who seem to have uploaded to every single other possibility out there, too ;)
<Rhonda> Preparing security updates yourself to reduce the workload of the security team seems to entail that somehow.
<nigelb> Rhonda: heh
<Rhonda> nigelb: Hey, I like to give everything a try on my own, to form my own opinion instead of being guided by prejudices handed by others.
<nigelb> Rhonda: No no, i was smiling about the bit were you wanted the release early ;)
<Rhonda> The one time I tried emacs it though ended in a reboot of the server I was sitting infront of.
<nigelb> vim ftw
<Rhonda> I wondered how to exit it, and a "helpful" collegue said "I think it's control, meta â¦  and me thinks delete"
<Rhonda> Ah, that one. :)
<nigelb> heh
<evaluate> What should I use in the changelog, natty or natty-proposed (or oneiric)?
<nigelb> natty-proposed I guess
<nigelb> but shouldn'd you fix it first in oneiric?
<micahg> evaluate: natty-proposed for natty, oneiric for oneiric
<evaluate> So do I need to create two debdiffs?
<micahg> evaluate: yep
<micahg> evaluate: same debdiff, just change the version/changelog
<evaluate> ok, got it.
<evaluate> ok, could someone please have a look at the debdiff and tell me if it's fine before I submit it: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/603123/ ?
<Bachstelze> should be ubuntu1.2 I think
<micahg> evaluate: version should be ubuntu1.1, for oneiric ubuntu2
<Bachstelze> also you should fill out the DEP3 info in the patch
<evaluate> Bachstelze, which information is needed exactly?
<Bachstelze> evaluate: lines 39-45 of your paste
<micahg> actually, he already filled it out in 31-32
<evaluate> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/603125/
<evaluate> Bug, Bug-Debian and Reviewed-By don't apply.
<evaluate> Not sure why it says 'debian-changes-1.3.12-1ubuntu2' on the last line though. Is that normal?
<Bachstelze> [08:48] < evaluate> Bug, Bug-Debian and Reviewed-By don't apply. <= delete them, then
<evaluate> You mean the whole part between lines 36-47?
<Bachstelze> the lines that don't apply
<Bachstelze> though since Origin is upstream, you should probably have a Bug line
<evaluate> What do you mean with Bug line please?
<evaluate> The bug only applies to Ubuntu, since it's indicator related...
<Bachstelze> the Bug line should give the URL of the bug in the upstream bug tracker
<Bachstelze> then why does Origin say upstream?
<evaluate> Isn't Origin reffering to the source of the patch?
<Bachstelze> yes
<evaluate> Well, the bug was fixed upstream, so I guess that should be fine then...?
<Bachstelze> then you shoukd out an URL to the bug in the upstream bug tracker in Bug
<Bachstelze> and normally the URL to the upstream VCS commit in Origin
<Bachstelze> it's all there really: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<Bachstelze> put*
<evaluate> Well, there's no bug in the upstream bug tracker about this. It's just in launchpad....
<Rhonda> Is an int signed or unsigned by default?
<nigelb> I think signed
<Bachstelze> yes
<evaluate> Bah, this is too complicated. I'll just request a sync once it gets into Debian.
<Rhonda> That's the spirit! :)
<micahg> evaluate: to get into natty, you still need a debdiff/test case
<evaluate> Well, I don't. I just wanted to help fix that bug, if you're making such a simple patch so complicated, then you can fix it.
<micahg> evaluate: Debian doesn't have requirements about DEP-3 headers on patches?
<evaluate> micahg, it does, but the way to place them there is more sane. If I run debuild -S they are generated automatically and I don't have any influence about what gets put there apparently.
<micahg> evaluate: you should be able to use DEP-3 headers the same way in Ubuntu as Debian, it just requires a Bug-Ubuntu instead of a Bug-Debian, they're auto-generated, but that's meant as a guide, you can remove the auto-generated ones if you don't need them
<evaluate> Also, since the bug was fixed upstream, I don't see the logic behind also creating a patch for Ubuntu. Why not just import the package from upstream?
<micahg> evaluate: we can't take a new upstream version in a stable release without an SRU exception
<micahg> evaluate: would be fine for oneiric though
<evaluate> And wouldn't a complete freeze of X justify a SRU exception?
<micahg> evaluate: not if it can be fixed with a simple patch
<micahg> evaluate: I think the only thing missing was a link to the "upstream" commit, that would go on the Origin line following upstream,
<Rhonda> And actually, the Description that debuild -S produces isn't really sane.
<Rhonda> The whole created thing screams "I'm a template - please adjust me!" in most of its part.
<evaluate> micahg, would this be acceptable: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/603147/ ?
<micahg> evaluate: that looks good to me
<evaluate> Do I just attach it to the bug report or should I also ping a list or something?
<micahg> evaluate: attach to the bug, subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<evaluate> Also, about oneiric, do I need to do it for oneiric too? Wouldn't it be wiser to just sync the patch from Debian once it's there?
<micahg> evaluate: you can attach a second one to the bug for oneiric, just changing the version to 1.3.12-1ubuntu2 and the suite to oneiric
<evaluate> Since oneiric isn't limited to any SRU exceptions or anything...
<micahg> evaluate: yeah, you can sync from Debian if you want to wait for that, but it needs to go in oneiric before ubuntu SRU will accept to natty
<evaluate> ohh well
<micahg> evaluate: you could prepare a new version upload for oneiric if you like as well, but that's up to you
<micahg> evaluate: seems like the least amount of work would be to get this patch uploaded to oneiric and then sync from Debian once it's ready there
<evaluate> micahg, ok.
<evaluate> Gah. "You cannot make any changes at this time. Launchpad is undergoing maintenance and is running in read-only mode."
<micahg> evaluate: oops, yeah, should be over by 9:30 UTC
<micahg> evaluate: thanks for your work on this :)
<evaluate> micahg, sure. It's my package after all... :-)
<micahg> evaluate: you should find that after the first few bumps, it should be clear sailing to get stuff sponsored, if you have any ideas for making the process easier/better, please let us know
<evaluate> micahg, I don't see anything wrong with the process of having something sponsored, but rather with the idea behind preffering a ubuntu patch rather than a new upstream version in a SRU...
<micahg> evaluate: this might help with that: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Why
<evaluate> micahg, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clipit/+bug/702316 -- hope it's ok now
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 702316 in clipit (Ubuntu) "Generic Libindicate fallback support breaks applications (such as clipit) on non-Unity WMs/DEs" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<ScottK> micahg: DEP-3 is not required in Debian.
<ScottK> And I think this is a good example of why.
<Rhonda> Actually that patch is only a good example that debuild -S creates only a template and requires a fair amount of tweaking afterwards. :)
<c2tarun> can anyone please tell me how can I edit this page and write comments? https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<geser> c2tarun: there is a hidden input field in the comment column
<c2tarun> geser: in natty there was a linker problem due to binutils-gold linker. is this also problem in oneiric?
<c2tarun> here is a debian/changelog file http://paste.kde.org/50683/ in line 14 its adding a patch, but when I checked into the file the patch is all ready applied. How is this possible?
<geser> c2tarun: yes, oneiric uses the same linker defaults as early natty
<c2tarun> geser: can you please look at the problem I just posted?
<geser> c2tarun: see line 10; the package now uses v3 (quilt) where package are automatically applied after unpacking
<c2tarun> geser: I also thought so, but when I checked by quilt top I got no patches applied.
<geser> hmm
<c2tarun> geser: I got this error while applying the patch Patch 01_local_hiscores_file_check.patch can be reverse-applied
<c2tarun> geser: I grabbed the package by grab-merge.sh script
<c2tarun> grab-merge.sh bastet
<c2tarun> geser: I am getting similar error with the other patch mentioned in line 17
<c2tarun> geser: ping
<c2tarun> geser seems to be busy, can anyone please help me?
<Laney> you don't need to ping specific people for questions like that
<Laney> that message usually means that the patch has been applied upstream or in debian, and you can remove it
<Laney> (or you are attempting to apply it twice)
<geser> hmm, does MoM the right thing for v3 packages?
<c2tarun> Laney: in changelog its mentioned about adding the patch, how can that be applied upstream?
<geser> Laney: see the changelog entry c2tarun linked; that patch got added in the current Debian revision
<Laney> sure, I was giving a generic answer
<c2tarun> I just pulled-debian-source bastet and patch is not applied there.
<c2tarun> grab-merge.sh can only apply the ubuntu1.patch and no internal patches
 * c2tarun confused, what went wrong and where?
<c2tarun> Laney: are you suggesting that I should drop the patch?
<geser> c2tarun: do you have a .pc/ directory in the package directory?
<c2tarun> geser: yes but its empty.
<c2tarun> geser: nope its not
<c2tarun> geser: it contains three files .  ..  .quilt_patches  .quilt_series  .version
<geser> perhaps it would be best if you take the (unmodified) Debian package and merge manually
<Laney> does it need a merge?
<Laney> changelog suggests not
<c2tarun> Laney: I too think so, let me check it
<Laney> this http://launchpadlibrarian.net/65435629/bastet_0.41-6_0.41-6ubuntu1.diff.gz was the previous diff
<Laney> and the bug logs and debian changelog suggest that that is now upstream
<Laney> so it looks like a sync to me
<c2tarun> Laney: sorry I got disconnected, did you replied to my query?
<Laney> c2tarun: didn't see it
<c2tarun> Laney: how can I request for sync? I tried with reqeuestsync script but dont know why its not working. Is there any particular format for sync bug for LP?
<Laney> c2tarun: did you try with requestsync --lp
<Laney> ?
<Laney> otherwise, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<c2tarun> Laney: I posted a sync bug 777083  please check and tell me if more details are required?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 777083 in bastet (Ubuntu) "Please Sync package bastet-0.43 from debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/777083
<Laney> usually the debian changelog is included
<Laney> and it'd be nice if you said that the only fixes were build fixes which are now incorporated upstream
<c2tarun> Laney: ok, I'll do that, and sorry I requested a sync for the first time so its little bit less in details
<Laney> no problem at all
<c2tarun> Laney: complete debian changelog or latest entry?
<Laney> the new ones
<c2tarun> Laney: please take a look now.
<Laney> c2tarun: looks good, please subscribe ubuntu-sponsors and that's it
<debfx> how can I remove a merge request from the sponsoring overview?
<debfx> (the equivalent to setting a bug status to invalid)
<Laney> set the status of the merge request
<debfx> to work in progress?
<Laney> debfx: sounds good
<Laney> barry: regarding your winpdb upgrade request, have you seen that debian has 1.4.8 now?
<Laney> it has in fact been autosynced
<c2tarun> there is a package named dares, there was a patch to fix binutils-gold error. Debian developer just included this patch in its newer version. No other changes and patch is also not applied in source code, just included as a patch. Is there any need of sync in this case?
<Laney> c2tarun: might as well while you are looking at it, then it'll be autosynced in future
<c2tarun> ok, this question may not be relevant but there was a guy with IRC nick persia, I haven't seen him from very long time on any channel. why so?
<c2tarun> I asked because he was very with everything we do on this channel
<c2tarun> I asked because he was very good with everything we do on this channel
<nigelb> c2tarun: he's in japan, he's having internet trouble for a while.
<c2tarun> ohh...
<c2tarun> I have a question about grab-merge.sh script. This script downloads the source code from debian and then applies the ubuntu.patch file to it? is there any way to make it stop applying that patch?
<micahg> c2tarun: just unpack the debian source separate if you want to see it, it'll be in a different dir
<c2tarun> micahg: got it. in previous ubuntu version, a patch was introduced to fix ftbfs due to binutils-gold, that patch is not included in new debian release. This should be a merge. What should I write in changelog, patch imported from previous ubuntu version?
<micahg> c2tarun: list the patch in remaining changes
<yofel> doesn't debian use the gold linker too?
<c2tarun> yofel: dont think so. :/ because new version is giving same error due to gold linker :(
<yofel> :/
<micahg> the patch should be forwarded if they're affected, but that doesn't mean they'll include it
<micahg> yofel: not yet by default
<yofel> ah ok
<c2tarun> one more problem, whenever i try to use the grab-merge.sh script, none of the patches in debian/patches folder apply. On executing quilt top i see no patches applied, but on pushing the patches none of them apply :( Even the patches introduced in the same version also didn't apply. why so?
<yofel> is the series file intact? I just merged kaffeine, and there the patch got applied without quilt and the series file got renamed to series.UBUNTU
<c2tarun> yofel: on series file isn't intact I have to modify it to include all the patches. can you please try this on your system. grab-merge.sh dma
<c2tarun> yofel: then go inside the folder and check whether any patch is applied or not? then modify the series file in proper format and then try to apply the patches.
<yofel> yeah, it seems the ubuntu patch is applied now and the series file has conflicts
<yofel> everyone: what's the right way to fix that?
<c2tarun> yofel: conflict is because ubuntu patch is not included and few new patches are introduced. We have to include ubuntu patch as well all the debian patches
<yofel> that is true, what I'm not sure is how to handle that fact that 38_fix_ftbfs_binutils-gold.patch is already applied to the source
<yofel> unless all patches were automatically applied..
<c2tarun> yofel: well there is no information in changelog that 38_fix_ftbfs_binutils-gold.patch is applied.
<yofel> nono, I meant that it was applied by MOM
<c2tarun> yofel: and try to pop the patches, none of them are applied :/ or something weird is happening which I have never seen before.
<c2tarun> hmmm.... thats new to me. I didn't know that MOM also applies the patch.
<yofel> nah, I'm wondering if MOM just doesn't consider that dpkg-source now automatically applies patches with 3.0(quilt)
<c2tarun> yofel: what should I do here? get the debian source, copy the debian folder from dma-0.0.2010.06.17-10ubuntu1 and try to build it on oneiric?
<yofel> no idea, I'm pretty new to merging myself and was just asking myself the same..
<dupondje> there is a magic tool for this
<yofel> in this case you could probably just revert that one patch in the Makefile since it's just a one line patch and then rename the patch file and update series
<dupondje> grab-merge package
<dupondje> :)
<dupondje> does alot by itself
<yofel> dupondje: yeah, and that gets us a source with applied quilt patches and quilt says no patch applied
<dupondje> euh, but thats because no patches are loaded in quilt ?
<c2tarun> can anyone please help us here?
<yofel> dupondje: yes, but it seems that the patches were applied by MOM before merging
<dupondje> what package are we talking about ,
<yofel> or MOM just doesn't check if dpkg-source auto-applies the patches
<c2tarun> dupondje: what does that mean that no patches are loaded in quilt?
<yofel> dma
<yofel> it's the 38_fix_ftbfs_binutils-gold.patch from ubuntu
<yofel> the series file has conflicts, but the patch is already applied
<yofel> and that's not because it's in debian or upstream
<dupondje> grab-merge dma
<dupondje> fix conflict in debian/patches/series
<dupondje> and that does it no ?
<dupondje> :)
<yofel> dupondje: yes, but why is the patch (that needs to be kept) already applied?
<yofel> that's not how quilt works...
<micahg> yofel: source format 3 and grab-merge will not work well together
<yofel> that's what I feared...
<c2tarun> micahg: that means we have to merge it manually.
<c2tarun> I tried and encountered this error http://paste.kde.org/51187/
<c2tarun> can anyone help me with this error ^^
<geser> c2tarun: which package is this?
<yofel> still dma
<c2tarun> geser: dma
<dupondje> that patch is applied
<dupondje> because its fixed in the package itself
<dupondje> see ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/d/dma/dma_0.0.2010.06.17.orig.tar.gz
<c2tarun> dupondje: I extracted fresh tarball and then applied all the patches and then on buliding I got this error.
<yofel> a) it's not applied, b) all patches were applied, it's just that MOM can't handle source format 3.0(quilt)
<c2tarun> yofel: was that ^^ for me?
<yofel> no, re dupondje
<yofel> but I got the same error if it helps (no, not really...)
<c2tarun> yofel: you got some different error?
<yofel> no, same
<yofel> crypto.c:92:7: error: assignment discards 'const' qualifier from pointer target type [-Werror]
<yofel> not sure if debian builds with -Werror
<micahg> yofel: they don't
<yofel> good, then we have the problem at least
<geser> c2tarun: change crypto.c:87 to "const SSL_METHOD *meth = NULL;" (add the const to the beginning)
<c2tarun> geser: should I create a patch for this?
<geser> yes, as the package is in v3 (quilt) format
<c2tarun> geser: it worked :) thanks
<geser> np
<dupondje> btw: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=622052
<ubottu> Debian bug 622052 in src:dma "dma: FTBFS: crypto.c:92:7: error: assignment discards qualifiers from pointer target type" [Serious,Open]
<c2tarun> dupondje: ohh.. I should close this bug in my changelog . Thanks :)
<c2tarun> no I cant
<c2tarun> its a debian bug I guess.
<dupondje> ye :)
<dupondje> but you could reply to it with the fix for example :)
<dupondje> the old ftbfs (38_fix_ftbfs_binutils-gold.patch) got fixed this way in debian
<geser> c2tarun: I sometimes add "Closes: #xxx" to my changelog entries, even if it does nothing in Ubuntu but it good for a reference
<geser> it helps checking later if the Ubuntu delta needs merging or can be dropped (because the bug got fixed in Debian too)
<c2tarun> ok then, I'll add "Closes: #debian-bug" to my changelog entry, should I send it to debian as well?
<geser> the patch yes
<dupondje> add the diff to the bug yep
<dupondje> always usefull for debian :)
<dupondje> geser: you have upload rights in universe?
<geser> yes, like any other MOTU too
<dupondje> want to check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/toonloop/+bug/775588 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 775588 in toonloop (Ubuntu) "Merge toonloop 2.0.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<micahg> dupondje: you can ask jdstrand, he's piloting in #ubuntu-devel
<dupondje> also for universe packages ? :)
<geser> for everything in the sponsoring queue
<dupondje> oh ok
<Laney> bigon: I feel like looking at merging epiphany 3, mind if I take it over from you, or are you planning on doing it yourself?
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-05
<sooth> Is jdk-5 no longer in the repositories?
<c2tarun> debian bug 614487
<ubottu> Debian bug 614487 in src:epdfview "epdfview: FTBFS: MainView.cxx:637: error: format not a string literal and no format arguments" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/614487
 * dupondje just fixed himself a virtual build server ^^
<c2tarun> in new epdfview tarball there is no Changelog file, in older version there is an empty
<c2tarun> Changelog file
<dupondje> help2man: can't get `--help' info from ../src/toonloop => any idea? (see https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71114766/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.toonloop_2.0.6-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz)
<dupondje> This builded fine some hours ago :s
<micahg> dupondje: archive can change fast in the dev release, check for a new version of help2man and what changed
<dupondje> micahg: compiled it yesterday with up-to-date build env
<dupondje> help2man got changed 4 days ago ...
<dupondje> weird
<micahg> dupondje: k, well, perl just changed :)
<c2tarun>  can anyone please help me with this error? http://paste.kde.org/51937/
<maxb> The doubled backslash looks mildly suspicious
<c2tarun> maxb: for my error?
<maxb> yes
<c2tarun> maxb: there is just one slash in rules file, dont know how I got there double slash.
<c2tarun> maxb: there is just one slash in build log
<maxb> Does a file debian/links or debian/*.links exist?
<c2tarun> maxb: yes http://paste.ubuntu.com/603622/
<maxb> OK, I think it is a bit wrong to be invoking dh_link with pathnames *and* referencing pathnames in the links files
<maxb> It also seems wrong to be invoking dh_link from an override_dh_installdocs target at all
<chrisccoulson> does debian/spyder/usr/share/doc/spyder/html/_static/ even exist?
<chrisccoulson> i'm pretty sure dh_link will fail if it doesn't
<c2tarun> chrisccoulson: yes it exist, I checked
<c2tarun> though /usr/share/doc/spyder/html/_static/jquery.js location is missing, does that make any sense?
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: it makes sense that it's doing that, but I don't know why it's causing trouble. sphinx installs a jquery into _static, and it's a common packaging practice to replace that with a symlink to libjs-jquery's version
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: I can build spyder 2.0.11-1 in oneiric without any trouble
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: you can??
<c2tarun> how?
<c2tarun> I mean why did it fail on my system?
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: http://paste.ubuntu.com/603639/
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: can you please show me your rules file?
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: unmodified debian source
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: that explains, here is the rules file that MoM provided me http://paste.ubuntu.com/603641/ I included the ubuntu changes. :/ that are causing trouble
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: I got it built on my system as well :) thanks
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: from skimming the changelog I can't see any reason not to sync, but I haven't read the diff (it's messy :P )
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: did you built source package as well?
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: I am getting errors with debuild -S
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: got it. some files are created due to debuild -b those were creating problem, but this never happened before. Is there something wrong with the package?
<tumbleweed> yeah, it doesn't clean properly
<tumbleweed> some packages are broken like that. Download the source again (and shake a fist / file a bug at the debian maintainer)
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: hmm... should I wait after filing a bug or request for sync after filing bug?
<tumbleweed> naah, it doesn't matter for syncing
<Laney> c2tarun: lesson â don't trust grab-merge too much
<tumbleweed> it's only a minor bug
<c2tarun> Laney: I wont even try that again, I'll just read the report from web and do a manual test.
<Laney> I'd actually recommend doing a few merges manually
<tumbleweed> that's how I do all my merges
<tumbleweed> although these days I tend to use UDD to help a bit
<c2tarun> UDD?
<Laney> me too, but without UDD
<Laney> I use emerge-files or meld or vimdiff or ...
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: wiki.ubuntu.com/UDD (bzr-based packaging)
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: I have a script that does the same thing as grab-merge but with bzr branches
<c2tarun> hmm.... I'll do few merges manually :)
<c2tarun> If I want to do a merge manually, where should I get the appropriate debian folder? grab-merge.sh scripts provides a folder which includes debian as well as ubuntu versions contents. Otherwise any debian folder is not perfect.?
<yofel> c2tarun: well, manually merging means getting the debian folder and applying all changes from the ubuntu package to it that should be kept for ubuntu
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: you take the current debian source, the current ubuntu diff (which you can get from merges.ubuntu.com / grab-merge), and you make all the same changes (either manually or by applying bits of patch)
<yofel> you can use merge-changelog to not manually merge that
<tumbleweed> yes, that's handy
<c2tarun> yofel: what is merge-changelog?
<yofel> see --help
<yofel> since the ubuntu and debian debian/changelog files won't be the same you need to merge them in the right order, merge-changelog does that for you
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: the advantage of doing everything by hand, is you see every single change, and get a chance to understand it, why it's there, and make the decision to keep it  / reject it / do it better and/or forward it to debian
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: from where I can find ubuntu.patch without using grab-merge?
<tumbleweed> by debdiffing previous debian & ubuntu sources or getting the patch from merges.ubuntu.com
<geser> which is also linked in the PTS page for that package
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: actually I have a slow internet connection so donwloading sources for all the packages and getting the diff will consume a lot of time.
<c2tarun> geser: I looked at PTS page but couldn't find one, for example this page http://packages.qa.debian.org/aeskulap
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: bottom right corner
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: wow. .. :) got it thanks
 * tumbleweed knows the slow internet connection pain all too well (although my ISP gives free access to their mirror, so I've started mirroring at home. It's awesome. /me waits for them to complain)
<effie_jayx> hello all
<xdatap> effie_jayx, _o/
<effie_jayx> I am having an Issue with a package for Lucid. It appears python2.pm which was introduced by the current co maintainer in debian and it seems not to work when building in Lucid http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/603692/
<effie_jayx> in my perl install there is no python2.pm, only python-central.pm python-support.pm
<effie_jayx> that's when searching /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/
<geser> effie_jayx: that file is in "python" in maverick or later
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing l2tp-ipsec-vpn? It's a little applet to configure and manage L2TP IPsec VPN connections.
<wejaeger> I've just uploaded a new upstream release. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
<effie_jayx> geser: well debhelper is using clean --with python2, can I just change that for anything else. python-support?
<geser> I don't know, better ask someone more familiar with Python packaging
<geser> ScottK: as you're familiar with backporting and also Python packaging, can you help effie_jayx? ^^
<ScottK> I missed the start of the conversation (IRC bot troubles).
<ScottK> What's the question?
<effie_jayx> ScottK: since python2.pm is not available in lucid, what can I use as an option for dh clean. In maverick we use dh clean --with pyhton2, can I use python-support?
<ScottK> If you want to backport a dh_python2 package to lucid you either need to switch it to pycentral/pysupport or we need to backport python-defaults/debhelper.
<ScottK> The latter is probably more reasonable.
<ScottK> barry: ^^^ We should work on this.
<effie_jayx> ScottK: I switched it to python-support, this will be the only difference between the maverick and natty packages. that and the python-all version to 2.6.5~
<ScottK> Should ~work.
<c2tarun> need help with package named asciijump. I used grab-merge.sh script and it applied the ubuntu1.patch and it worked fine. Then I downloaded the debian source code and applied that patch manually and that patch failed at many locations. why so?
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: in this case it was because the changes were accepted by debian
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: then how mom is able to apply the same patch?
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: or grab-merge.sh
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: I hope you are getting, grab-merge.sh applies the ubuntu.patch file to debian source code.
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: how did it apply the same patch which I couldn't.
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: if you compare asciijump_1.0.2~beta-3ubuntu1.patch to asciijump_1.0.2~beta-4.patch you'll see all the changes from the first patch are in the new debian version
<Rhonda> It seems to be able to recognize that the patch already is in the source.
<Laney> it does a three way merge
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: it doesn't just try to apply the previous patch, because that'll never be applyable (the changelog will conflict). It's a bit more intelligent...
<Rhonda> Which when you want to apply it manually it isn't
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: I agree that all the changes are applied, but the beta4 in debian is not building on ubuntu oneiric, while the one beta4-ubuntu1 provided by grab-merge.sh is building properly
<c2tarun> no I need to understand what grab-merge.sh exactly do with the debian version? which patch is applied to it and with what intelligence. :/ otherwise I wont be able to figure out what I did wrong.
<c2tarun> /s/no/now
<Laney> c2tarun: so check the debdiff between the one that doesn't work and the one that does
<c2tarun> Laney: good idea :)
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: actually, just unpack the debian source
<tumbleweed> and look at the topmost patch
<tumbleweed> basically, the debian maintainer screwed up
 * c2tarun thought that debian maintainers were good O_O
<Laney> people make mistakes
<Laney> tumbleweed: I was trying to lead him to find that out :-)
<tumbleweed> Laney: I know, but I thought it wasn't obvious from the debdiff
<Laney> fair
<Laney> i wrote a lintian check which should be in the next version to warn about debian-changes patches
<c2tarun> The version which is working (which is provided by grab-merge.sh) contains one extra patch. Please take a look http://paste.ubuntu.com/603770/
<c2tarun> Laney tumbleweed ^^
<c2tarun> and I couldn't find where did this patch came from, there is no mention about it in this asciijump_1.0.2~beta-3ubuntu1.patch file. :(
<c2tarun> I am bit confused about what is happening.
 * c2tarun will be back in a while, guys please hold your responses
<c2tarun> did anyone replied to my query?
<tumbleweed> c2tarun: look at the the part of the patch starting at line 28
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: yeah that's what I am talking about, from where did that patch come?
<tumbleweed> user error
<c2tarun> sorry? I lost you :( what do you mean by user error?
<tumbleweed> the person adding ld-as-needed.patch didn't apply the patch when he/she added it
<tumbleweed> so when they ran debuild, it generated a patch of the changes, which excatly reverses ld-as-needed..patch
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: ok, we can say that till line 84 its ld-as-needed patch, what about afterlines?
<Laney> you need to take the debian package and remove the debian-changes-blah patch from it
<Laney> minimally you can achieve this by removing it from series
 * Laney hates patches-applied
<c2tarun> Laney: ok , I removed the that debian-changes blah patch and it build successfully. Now what should we call this a sync or a merge?
<tumbleweed> you call it a sync, but with an additional change
<tumbleweed> and please file a bug in debian :)
<c2tarun> tumbleweed: sorry, I never exactly filed a bug in debian :( how do we do that?
<tumbleweed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Bugs
<Laney> " You will also need to change the smtphost option in the same file as it is set to fiordland.ubuntu.com which does not allow relaying"
<Laney> then why is it set to that?
<c2tarun> Laney: sorry from which file?
<tumbleweed> that was fixed
<Laney> wiki should be fixed then
<c2tarun> what are we talking about here?
<tumbleweed> Laney: it probably still applies to old versions
<tumbleweed> it was fixed in 0.115
<Laney> even so, it should be reworded
<Laney> "if you get errors about fiordland, do this"
<hakermania> Why in Natty the 'whitelist' isn't by default set to '[all]' and only to Skype and Java applications?
<arand> hakermania: Because they want to actively steer applications away from using that.
<Laney> that's a question for #ayatana really
<hakermania> Ayatana? What's this?
<tumbleweed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana
<hakermania> ok, got it, thanks
<stlsaint> hey folks, so im trying to learn packaging but my primary os is debians crunchbang, my question is will i be able to follow the ubuntu packaging guide with a debian host? (IE: ubuntu-dev-tools is ubuntu specific so can i work without them and still have valid results?)
<aboudreault> Hi. Can I tell dpatch to not execute a dist-clean?
<aboudreault> now, it fails when I try to create a new patch
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
<ScottK> stlsaint: You should be able to.  Ubuntu-dev-tools is in Debian.
<stlsaint> ScottK: problem is that it will install a heap load of stuff i done see the use of (LAMP stack) and others
<ScottK> aboudreault: Use dpatch-edit-patch to work with dpatch.
<ScottK> stlsaint: Shouldn't.
<c2tarun> If debian version of a package is built successfully on oneiric. But there are some conflicts in debian/control file. should we still call for sync? I think yes, Just making sure.
<ScottK> Depends: binutils, dctrl-tools, devscripts, diffstat, dpkg-dev, lsb-release, python-apt (>= 0.7.93~), python-debian (>= 0.1.15), python-launchpadlib (>= 1.5.7), python-lazr.restfulclient, sudo, perl, python2.7 | python2.6, python (>= 2.7.1-0ubuntu2), python (<< 2.8)
<stlsaint> ScottK: maybe not full lamp but from what i say it installs the apache, mysql-client packages from what i remember from memory
<stlsaint> ScottK: one sec i will show ya
<ScottK> stlsaint: ^^^ is the depends for it.
<ScottK> That's it.
<geser> c2tarun: what kind of conflicts?
<ScottK> stlsaint: Recommends add a bit more, but no lamp:
<ScottK> Recommends: bzr, bzr-builddeb, ca-certificates, debian-archive-keyring, debian-keyring, debootstrap, genisoimage, libwww-perl, pbuilder | cowdancer | sbuild, perl-modules, python-dns, python-gnupginterface, python-magic, python-soappy, reportbug (>= 3.39ubuntu1)
<c2tarun> geser: well simple control file conflicts, like maintainer name and Standards-Version and all
<geser> c2tarun: the other Ubuntu delta got merged?
<stlsaint> ScottK: aye, the basic lamp stuff was only suggested but still bothersome with the other required install packages
<ScottK> Don't bother with suggests.
<stlsaint> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/603829/
<c2tarun> geser: there was just one delta this conflict. actually my point is, we simply cannot take debian/control file from debian versions, so any changes in control file can make a new ubuntu1 version. Shouldn't that go for a merge?
<ScottK> stlsaint: Most of those are pretty smal.
<stlsaint> ScottK: aye
<stlsaint> ScottK: mainly wasnt sure if it was needed since i will be in a debian environment and the wiki said that that package was ubuntu specific
<geser> c2tarun: there was an Ubuntu delta in the past else there wouldn't be a Maintainer change. So got the Ubuntu delta got included in the Debian package? if yes, then the Maintainer change can be dropped (as there is no other Ubuntu delta requiring an update of the Maintainer field)
<ScottK> It is, but you can work on Ubuntu stuff from a Debian box no problem.  It just requires using a chroot or vm for building.
<stlsaint> ScottK: so is that package particularly required for building?
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> It just has stuff that makes it easier.
<stlsaint> ScottK: kk, i will keep that in thought
<stlsaint> ScottK: thanks for enlightenment
<c2tarun> geser: please look at this control conflict
<c2tarun> http://paste.ubuntu.com/603831/
<c2tarun> geser: I should drop maintainer field of debian and build-depends field of ubuntu.
<c2tarun> geser: but I am not sure that we need a new ubuntu version for these changes?
<geser> c2tarun: drop the changes completely as we don't care about hildon anymore (someone please correct me if I'm mistaken)
<c2tarun> geser: hildon?
<geser> c2tarun: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildon
<c2tarun> geser: ok, I'll take a look, what you just suggested is I should simply call for sync with requestsync script without bothering about those conflicts?
<geser> c2tarun: yes, just sync as the first Ubuntu changes to 0.9-1 were related to hildon and the other one (add libgnomevfs2-dev to build-depends) seems to be in the Debian package now too
<c2tarun> geser: thanks :)
<geser> NCommander: do you know if we keep our "hildon" patches or can they be dropped?
<aboudreault> hmm... with libtool..... if I want to name my libX.so libX.so.1.3.0, which mean libX version 1.3.0, what should I use?
<aboudreault> I tried the -version-info... but it produces 1.0.3.
<broder> aboudreault: the soname of a library shouldn't be the same as the version number of the package, it should be based on how you change the ABI
<broder> http://www.gnu.org/software/libtool/manual/html_node/Updating-version-info.html has some information on that
<aboudreault> the ABI should only change between minor version, and not revision. so, 1.2 -> 1.3 etc..
<aboudreault> so my so name should be .so.1.3 ?
<slangasek> c2tarun: hi, I see that you recently (in natty) uploaded a new upstream version of pympd to Ubuntu.  Are you aware that this package has subsequently been removed from Debian because it's "dead upstream" and was orphaned for over a year?  Do you have any interest in maintaining this package in Debian as well, so Debian and Ubuntu could be in sync on this?
<oussama> Hi, do i need to regenerate my public ssh key and my gpg key every time i have installed a newer version of ubuntu ?? Sorry for my bad english
<tumbleweed> no, just copy them from your old install
<tumbleweed> (or upgrade)
<NCommander> geser: Death can come to Hildon
<c2tarun> slangasek: I was not aware that package has been removed. I am interested in maintaining the package, but I dont have any knowledge about its source code and other stuffs. Do you still think that I can maintain it?
<slangasek> c2tarun: if you understand the packaging and take responsibility for relaying bug reports to upstream, you don't have to understand the upstream code very well
<c2tarun> slangasek: well I can do that :)
<slangasek> c2tarun: and effectively, by uploading a newer upstream version to Ubuntu that will never be synced again from Debian, you've already made yourself the go-to guy for bugs with this package; if you do so in Debian as well, at least you'll have better structure in place to support you being a package maintainer, since Ubuntu doesn't really do that :)
<slangasek> c2tarun: are you currently involved in Debian at all?  Let me see what I have for "getting started" links
<c2tarun> slangasek: Nope I just submitted few patches to debian and nothing else
<slangasek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/ForUbuntuDevelopers
<c2tarun> slangasek: thanks :) I'll go through it.
<slangasek> c2tarun: you're welcome :)
<slangasek> c2tarun: when it comes time for uploading the package, you can ping me for sponsorship - but you should also make friends with the debian-mentors mailing list, because I don't scale :)
<c2tarun> slangasek: sure :)
<rexbron> Hi, is it appropreate to ask for sponsorship in this channel?
<tumbleweed> rexbron: absolutely :)
<rexbron> anyone interested in taking a look at bug 778071? I've updated to a new upstream and fixed some packaging bugs so that it installs and works. Currently in natty the package is uninstallable.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 778071 in xvba-video (Ubuntu) "New xvba-video required" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/778071
<tumbleweed> rexbron: debias has 0.7.8-1, any reason to not just sync that?
<tumbleweed> debian
<rexbron> tumbleweed: Ubuntu uses a different package name for the fglrx drivers
<rexbron> so two of the bugs are fixed already in debian
<rexbron> but the bug that makes it uninstallable still persists
<tumbleweed> ok, how about syncing + that fix?
<rexbron> tumbleweed: sure, so request a sync then fix that?
<tumbleweed> no, you can do it all in one go
<tumbleweed> take the debian source, modify it, propose that
<rexbron> ok
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-06
<virusuy> hi!
<virusuy> i'm packaging from scrath.. some unity's launchers
<virusuy> i'm at control file
<virusuy> and i don't know in wich Section can i put this launchers
<ScottK> virusuy: Find another package that's similar.  See what they used.
<virusuy> ScottK: ok!
<highvoltage> guten morgen
<nigelb> hello highvoltage
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
<udienz> lucidfox, thanks for your advocate!
<lucidfox> No problem :)
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
<c2tarun> this is the changelog I got from the source I pulled from debian. http://paste.ubuntu.com/604138/ how can a debian's changelog have ubuntu specific entries? O_O
<Laney> the same way an ubuntu changelog can have debian ones
<Laney> if it reflects the history of the package, why not?
<c2tarun> Laney: but most of the time we either sync or merge from debian. so package comes first in debian and then its ubuntu version comes. Look at the changelog, there is no entry for debian's 15-0 but there is entry for 15-0ubuntu1.
<Laney> there's no reason that it can't happen either way round
<Laney> the first line of the latest changelog even says this
<c2tarun> hmm...
<c2tarun> Laney: ok, so according to the first changelog entry debian is synching with ubuntu, so there is no need for us to call a syn request. Am I correct?
<Laney> debian /did/ copy the ubuntu package once, but now as their version is higher than ours then it can be synced
<c2tarun> hmm... don't you think that our repo will then contain a package with two different versions but same content?
<Laney> or you can speak to the maintainer and find out what he's planning on doing
<Laney> two different versions? no, the old one will go away just like it always does
<c2tarun> old version goes away? I didn't knew that. o_O that's new info, thanks :)
<yofel> old version goes away in the release it gets uploaded to
<yofel> it will still be available in older releases
<c2tarun> yofel: so for one release there can be only one version at a time. got it :)
<ziviani> all, hello. In a preinst file, a call to source debconf lib (. /usr/share/debconf/confmodule) leads to a failure whe pre installing the package (return error status 30). But this exactly same package still works find in Lucid. I check the changelog but nothing to light me.
<ziviani> all, does anybody has any idea on what may be happening?
<ziviani> all, I'm trying it now in Natty
<ziviani> all, Lucid ok but natty fails
 * nigelb ^5 bcurtiswx.
<nigelb> bcurtiswx, Thursday's gonna rock :)
<Laney> ghc 7 transition
<Laney> here goes
<Laney> well, it'll need source newing ;-)
<ziviani> all, hello. In a preinst file, a call to source debconf lib (. /usr/share/debconf/confmodule) leads to a failure whe pre installing the package (return error status 30) on Natty. But this exactly same package still works fine in Lucid.
<Ampelbein> ziviani: you could set -x to see where it fails
<c2tarun> cjwatson: ping
<Laney> c2tarun: I recommend not giving contextless pings; it both saves the time of the person you are after and potentially allows someone else to answer
<c2tarun> Laney: actually he did last merge of package elilo, and now there are two conflicts in that package. Here are the conflicts, http://paste.kde.org/53563/ I was wondering if he could help me in fixing these conflicts.
<c2tarun> can you help me with these conflicts?
<Laney> I don't know what it's for.
<Laney> did you ask him if you could take over the merge?
<c2tarun> Laney: I was going to ask that first and then this problem
<c2tarun> do we have to ask each and every time we want to merge or sync a package. Even if the conflict is obvious and easy to resolve?
<Laney> it is assumed that the previous uploader will take care of it
<c2tarun> but that way no work will be left for new guys :(
<cjwatson> I don't subscribe to the belief that merges are a good thing to start with, actually
<cjwatson> I would prefer to keep that merge, if you don't mind
<c2tarun> cjwatson: sure, I was not getting any hint on how to resolve the conflict.
<cjwatson> I think it should be clear to people who know make
<c2tarun> can anyone please tell me from where to start? I mean except merges, what else packaging related work is there?
<cjwatson> the reason merges are not a good place to start is that merges are not a mechanical task - they often jump out and surprise you with requiring really quite deep knowledge of the package
<cjwatson> I generally recommend starting by finding bugs that are bothering you and figuring out how to fix them, and repeating
<cjwatson> there are no doubt plenty of other ways to do it
<c2tarun> cjwatson: sorry :( but I tried, fixing bugs is not as easy as it seems (at least for me) most of the time we have to understand the programming of whole application, which requires complete scanning of the package source code
<cjwatson> I don't mean to be unwelcoming, just that merging something with the kinds of complex changes elilo has offers lots of ways to make mistakes in ways that are hard to review
<cjwatson> yes, and you have to understand how the programming of the application works in order to do merges, in general
<cjwatson> sure, there are merges that don't require that; it varies
<cjwatson> but for the harder merges, you have to understand lots about the programming of the package, *and* you have to keep state about a three-way merge in your head
<cjwatson> it can be quite cognitively challenging even when you're used to it, at times
<c2tarun> cjwatson: so I should start with fixing bugs first?
<cjwatson> I don't actually in general find that you have to understand the whole package in order to fix a bug in part of it, though
<cjwatson> the skill you have to develop is narrowing down the part of the package you need to understand
<cjwatson> c2tarun: it's just my opinion
<c2tarun> cjwatson: I am trying to learn Qt, I'll start with some kde bugs. Thanks :)
<c2tarun> but can we do simple merges or sync in which conflict is pretty obvious?
<ScottK> c2tarun: Ones that seem obvious aren't always so.
<c2tarun> ScottK: conflicts in debian/control file in which maintainer-name is changed, or Standards-version is bumped are bit easy.
<ScottK> c2tarun: That's true, but there are cases where even if the previous Ubuntu changes are fixed, new ones are needed.  You've had advice from one of the most experienced people in the project on this.  My advice is listen to it.
<ScottK> c2tarun: If you want a generic place to start, look for installation failure bugs in LP and see if you can fix them.
<ScottK> Those are often quite tractable with just a bit of shell and will help you learn how the packaging system works.
<ScottK> You can ask in #ubuntu-bugs for help finding candidates.
<c2tarun> ScottK: offcourse I'll listen the advices. :) that will help me a lot.
<c2tarun> ScottK: sure :) I'll look for such bugs.
<ScottK> Then stop asking if it's a good idea if you do merges.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-07
<MTecknology> one app and packaging and one apps packaging i made are in ubuntu
<MTecknology> kind of addicting :P
<MTecknology> hrm... how do you set a bug supervisor on a package in ubuntu?
<_Andrew> Anyone know why my package was rejected?
<_Andrew> Rejected: Unable to identify file ogre_1.7.2-ogredev.orig.tar.lzma (libs) in changes.
<_Andrew> Can't we use lzma?
<Ampelbein> _Andrew: as far as I know you can only use gzip with source format 1, with source format 3.0 you can additionally use xz and bz2.
<jbicha> _Andrew: why are you not using the tar.bz2 source?
<_Andrew> jbicha, because lzma is 10 Meg less
<Laney> cdbs: hi! have you sent the zsync changes upstream? they don't look ubuntu specific
<cdbs> Laney: Hello there! Nope, I haven't
<cdbs> though I sure should
<cdbs> added to todo
<Laney> thanks :-)
<ari-tczew> wgrant: could you update multidistrotools on qa.ubuntuwire.org for oneiric? it works for natty already.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-08
<DJKorbit> good evening
<DJKorbit> i've just set up my first ppa
<DJKorbit> i'm testing it by adding it to my system but it doesn't work
<DJKorbit> i'm getting this error
<DJKorbit> $ sudo apt-add-repository ppa:hmrocha-fc/geforcego7400
<DJKorbit> Error: can't find signing_key_fingerprint at https://launchpad.net/api/1.0/~hmrocha-fc/+archive/geforcego7400
<DJKorbit> any help?
<micahg> DJKorbit: you might want to try #launchpad
<DJKorbit> ok
<stefanlsd> anyone seen this -   Uploading dahdi-tools_2.4.1-1ubuntu1_source.changes: 3k/4k550 Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ["(7, 9, u'No public key')", "(7, 9, u'No public key')", "(7, 9, u'No public key')"] : Permission denied
<stefanlsd> when dputing
<geser> stefanlsd: yes, seen other "complain" about it in the past weeks
<geser> the LP FTP server checks the GPG signature upon upload, but sometimes the keyserver doesn't like to talk to the FTP server
<geser> if you uploaded with that key successfully in the past, check if your upload got accepted despite that error
<stefanlsd> geser: mm. dont think its my side. gpg --verify says good signature. oki. i'll try later
<stefanlsd> geser: aah yeah. just got he email. looks like it did go through
<geser> stefanlsd: the Ubuntu keyserver and the FTP server don't like to talk to each other sometimes so the FTP server doesn't get a key to verify the signature during upload
<geser> wgrant: ^^ is there a bug about it (failed signature check during dput) which I can point person asking about it to?
<bullgard4> http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/ppas/47: "This repository is available for: Stable." What does Â»StableÂ« mean here?
<Ampelbein> bullgard4: 'stable' refers to the current debian release
<Ampelbein> bullgard4: currently the 'stable' release is also known as 'squeeze'
<bullgard4> Ampelbein: Right. What is the conclusion for Ubuntu?
<Ampelbein> bullgard4: well, stable isn't used as a codename in ubuntu at all.
<Ampelbein> bullgard4: current "stable" releases of ubuntu are: 11.04, 10.10, 10.04, 8.04, 6.06
<bullgard4> Ampelbein: Well, the website's URL is "http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/ppas/47". So there must be a relation to Ubuntu, mustn't it.
<bullgard4> Ampelbein: Didn't you just say that "Stable" here refers to Debian's Squeeze?
<broder> bullgard4, Ampelbein: for google's apt repositories, stable refers to the version of *google's* code, not ubuntu's
<broder> their software generally works irrespective of ubuntu version you're using (or debian)
<broder> e.g. for chrome, i know they have stable, beta, and unstable (or something like that) for the stable, beta, and dev channels
<bullgard4> broder: I have used this PPA successfully with Ubuntu 10.04.2 LTS. But the same PPA in Natty throws a warning and persistently annoys its Update Manager.
<Ampelbein> bullgard4: regarding the "it's on ubuntuupdates so there must be a relation" - not really. It's just another 3rd party site and in no way official.
<Ampelbein> broder: thanks, I didn't know that about google's naming policy.
<bullgard4> broder: In Natty I followed the instructions given in http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/ppas/47 for installing the PPA google-talkplugin. It seems that now google-talkplugin no longer annoys Update manager. My personal explanation is that during the distant upgrade 10.10 to 11.04 alpha something went wrong and I only today fixed this by following the instructions in http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/ppas/47
<bullgard4> . --  Thank you for your help.
<bullgard4> Ampelbein: broder convincingly explained that this is Google's terminology.
<Ampelbein> bullgard4: yes, I didn't know that.
<bullgard4> Ampelbein: So thank you very much for your help and encouragement.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-04-30
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<bobweaver> hello there i am looking for simple easy too fix and package back up projects as I am board. I am not the greatest packager or engineer but i can get around well. any Ideas if there is a team like this? or if there is a way too search on LP to get such bugs ?
<sagaci> bobweaver: search for bugs with tags with bitesize or string-fix
<bobweaver> thanks sagaci
<tumbleweed> bobweaver: harvest.ubuntu.com can help find you bitesize bugs
<bobweaver> thanks tumbleweed  !
<aboudreault> is doing a $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/ in debian/rules the right way?
<tumbleweed> that's problematic
<tumbleweed> it's useful to separate DESTDIR from PREFIX
<tumbleweed> $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/ PREFIX=/usr/
<aboudreault> yeah, my configure call is like --prefix=/usr
<tumbleweed> (well, PREFIX is usally applied at configure time)
<tumbleweed> yes
<aboudreault> ok, I see, will remove the usr/ from the destdir
<tumbleweed> btw, dh should just do the right thing for a package using make like this
<aboudreault> umm...will do a few tests to see what was the problem before
<aboudreault> also trying to tell debuild to use my 8 cpus... doesn't seem to work.
<aboudreault> with the -j8 option
<tumbleweed> the package needs to support parallel builds
<tumbleweed> with dh, there's a --parallel option
<tumbleweed> all that -j option does is set a flag in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianrules-options
<aboudreault> ok
<aboudreault> tumbleweed, dh doesn't seem to do any make install
<tumbleweed> it should
<aboudreault> how can I tell it to do it in install-arch ?
<tumbleweed> by overriding dh_auto_install-indep
<aboudreault> or, what dh_ command is supposed to do the make install
<tumbleweed> dh_auto_install
<tumbleweed> dh_auto_* is for driving the upsteram build system
<aboudreault> damn libtool... my php ext fails to install when I use a destdir
<aboudreault> due to a missing lib
<aboudreault> but the make works
<aboudreault> tumbleweed, Ok, it's moving forward :)
<aboudreault> now, only getting this error: dpkg-shlibdeps: error: no dependency information found for ... (which point to a lib I just built for my packages)
<vibhav> Is the archive open now?
<aboudreault> Is this the correct solution: dh_shlibdeps --dpkg-shlibdeps-params=--ignore-missing-info ?
* tumbleweed changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Quantal: Archive open | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Fix-It Friday: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/KljH7rwo1X
<tumbleweed> vibhav: ^
<vibhav> thanks!
<tumbleweed> aboudreault: that shouldn't produce an error. I can't answer that without looking at it, though.
* dholbach changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Quantal: Archive open | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/
<dholbach> (removed Fix-It Friday - I hope to announce some new initiatives after UDS)
<vibhav> nice
<vibhav> dholbach: In which room will we be discussing that?
<dholbach> vibhav, at UDS - http://uds.ubuntu.com/community/remote-participation/ - but this particular session is not scheduled yet
<dholbach> you might want to subscribe to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-q-dev-initiatives
<vibhav> thanks
<aboudreault> tumbleweed, my current build output: http://pastebin.com/eRXaqB71
 * tumbleweed shovels backports into the udt PPA to get oneiric and natty builds workirng again
<tumbleweed> re shunit2: Why on earch does a package that builds a single arch-indep binary package need to use -indep overrides and v9 compat
<tumbleweed> aboudreault: I'd start by dealing with the warnings on lines 2-8
<tumbleweed> aboudreault: should the php plugin really have a .0.0.0 in its name?
<tumbleweed> aboudreault: -dev in a SONAME is guaranteed to confuse people
<tumbleweed> the recommended binary package name is then libmapserver6.1-dev which looks like a -dev package to the uninitiated :P
<aboudreault> yeah, that's because I build using the git master, our official release is just not ready yet.
<tumbleweed> is the ABI unstable enough that it will probably change before release?
<aboudreault> not sure why the php has a .0.0.0, that's libtool magic
<tumbleweed> yes, libtool thinks everything needs a soname
<tumbleweed> err a x.y.z version in the soname
<aboudreault> tumbleweed, I don't think so... but I won't upload any ubuntugis package before the release, just preparing i
<tumbleweed> then go with the final soname
<tumbleweed> if you aren't sharing teh package, you can't cause any damage
<aboudreault> this is automatically generated
<tumbleweed> right
<tumbleweed> patch it out, so that you can prepare the package with teh final soname?
<aboudreault> I do not have to patch this, when I will build with the real tar.gz package of the release, the so will have the proper name
<aboudreault> talking about the -dev.so one, not the php one
<tumbleweed> ok, but you do know that the library should be in a package with a name including the soname's verison, right?
<aboudreault> ah, so that's probably the issue? my package is named libmapserver, and the so libmapserver-6.1-dev.so
<tumbleweed> yes, it's an issue
<aboudreault> ok
<aboudreault> I see in another package that the package name is libgdal1, and the .so is libgdal1.8.0.so
<aboudreault> ah.. the rules file contains: -L libgdal1 -l debian/libgdal1/usr/lib
<tumbleweed> that'd change to libgdal2 when there was a backwards incompatible ABI change, but until then, just the minor version is bumped
<aboudreault> not sure how to fix those errors: pkg-shlibdeps: warning: symbol dlsym used by debian/libmapserver/usr/lib/libmapserver-6.1-dev.so found in none of the libraries.
<aboudreault> dlsym etc.. are from libc... and the .so is properly linked with them, what can I do more?
<tumbleweed> as the dlsym manpage says, you should link with -ldl
<aboudreault> It is, when I build using debuild... that error only happens in pbuilder-dist
 * tumbleweed can't comment without looking at the source package
<aboudreault> going to push my current branch
<tumbleweed> debfx: lol, I was just looking to see if openarena-players-mature was syncable
<aboudreault> tumbleweed, http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-grass/mapserver.git;a=tree;f=debian;h=2ed63af946e3b4f99b929937beee20b878d899ce;hb=6.2
<jtaylor> can someone unsubscribe sponsors from bug 986279, thx
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 986279 in hg-git (Ubuntu Precise) "can't clone the repo: ValueError: need more than 1 value to unpack" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986279
<Laney> done
 * micahg is shocked mono builds on quantal (everything complex I've tried so far has blown up)
<ajmitch> micahg: the mono maintainers are diligent & careful, you know ;)
<hyperair> heh lol
 * Laney steals a bug for the Launchpad clinic
<Laney> rawr
<bobweaver> Who is in charge of ubuntu mobile
<bobweaver> I just got a ping from a real good python programer and he is about too start
<bobweaver> but I thought that I would get him togeather with others he is real good at python and is well know for it.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-01
<ScottK> It would be useful if someone would look and see what we need to do to kill python-wxgtk2.6 in quantal.  It's already gone in Debian.
<tumbleweed> I seem to recall you pointing at wx related issues in precise too
<ScottK> I may have.
<ScottK> It's one of those things I think should be done, but I've not got time to look into myself.
 * tumbleweed has bug 948944 open in my browser, probably for a while :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 948944 in wxwidgets2.8 (Ubuntu) "after upgrade from oneiric python applications may use the wrong version of wxpython and fail as a result" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/948944
 * tumbleweed may put some time into them this evening. But first, going out for dinner and beer!
<ScottK> beer sounds like an appropriate preparation for working on wx stuff.
<jtaylor> nice I broke my wx installation by installing 2.6
<tumbleweed> oO) maybe jtaylor can fix it before I get back )
<jtaylor> I don't even know how to fix my own installation
<jtaylor> I reinstalled everything and purged 2.6 :/
<jtaylor> still broken
<tumbleweed> nice
<jtaylor>  /usr/lib//python2.7/dist-packages/wx.pth does not get reinstalled for some reason
<jtaylor> hurray reinstalling python-wxversion fixed it
<tumbleweed> the wxwidgets2.6 removal affects beauties like this: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/encadre-image
<tumbleweed> same upstream version since feisty
<jtaylor> neat
 * tumbleweed looks to see if it works with 2.7
<tumbleweed> err 8
<jtaylor> I actually wanted a newer version of wxformbuilder recently, another one of those ubuntu only never updated one
<jtaylor> I looked into it and it embeds a library not available ubuntu (ticpp)
<jtaylor> I don't really fell like properly maintaining both full scale in debian to satisfy my short term need for it
<tumbleweed> that's one of the reasons I created http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/neglected-packages.cgi We should encaurage people to look at it... (and host it on ubuntuwire, so it's faster)
<jtaylor> but others might profit from an updated version not up to debian standards but equal to what is already there
<jtaylor> can I upload it including the embedded library to ubuntu?
 * tumbleweed supposes you could. but IANAAA
<Laney> you shouldn't have looked
<Laney> now it is on your conscience :P
<tumbleweed> :)
<Laney> seriously though, it is important to think about whether dumping something you intend at the outset not to care for is a good idea
<jtaylor> yes but we already have something outdated in the archive, the alternative is to remove it or leave it rotting
<jtaylor> in this case the package is still usable though so rotting may be ok
<tumbleweed> reintroduction in Debian, by someone who cares about it, is preferable to rotting
<tumbleweed> assuming the rot is already well set-in
<jtaylor> it was never in debian
<tumbleweed> no reason it couldn't be, in its next life :)
<jtaylor> not by me, and its not exactly an easy target for a newcomer
<jtaylor> you need to know a bunch of unusual stuff for proper maintenance
<jtaylor> e.g. lua, premake
<jtaylor> though updating the ubuntu package as is is a breeze, just get-orig-source and build :)
<jtaylor> easier than trying to install from upstreams mess of a distribution
<tumbleweed> I do worry that the rotting packages cause an unecessary drain on MOTU
<tumbleweed> but yeah, the bar for an existing ubuntu-only package is pretty low
<dupondje> tumbleweed: maby add popularity next to the list of neglected packages
<dupondje> guess there are ton of packages nobody uses.
<tumbleweed> yeah, that's a useful column
<jtaylor> that page doesn't load for me :(
<tumbleweed> give it a few years
<dupondje> jtaylor: just wait a bit ... :)
<tumbleweed> let's see if I can get it working on syklone before it loads for you...
<jtaylor> been waiting 20 minutes already
<jtaylor> though I had a disconnect in between
<tumbleweed> why on earth did I make this a CGI?
<jtaylor> now it loaded
<jtaylor> quite a log :O
<jtaylor> lot
<tumbleweed> Laney: btw, finally got around to doing the report that was the cause for my ubuntu_upload_history involvement: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/debian-ubuntu-developers/
<Laney> heh
<tumbleweed> I seem to remember taking a workitem for that last UDS
<Laney> what for?
<tumbleweed> can't remember. Presumabyl debian healthcheck
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: anything you need changed on ubuntuwire to get some of that stuff on there? :)
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: laney pointed out last night that debian's UDD hasn't been importing *sources tables. Time for us to do more than just load dumps? :)
<tumbleweed> (I'm not particularly serious there, but it probably does affect some reports)
<Laney> apparently it is getting a new machine
<tumbleweed> yeah, I think we kicked off the replace-ancient-machines movement
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: what'd be required on our side for that?
<tumbleweed> Laney: do we know the timeframe for the new UDD machine?
 * tumbleweed looks for bits from zack
<Laney> no
<Laney> ask zobel in #-qa
<Laney> i think it is pretty imminent though
 * tumbleweed does that
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: is a UDS session needed about any of this, or maybe rolled into another session?
<ajmitch> or JFDI
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: seriously. It's only a short-time issue (we hope) so I think we just sit it out
<ajmitch> ok
<tumbleweed> dupondje: don't you feel like merging xaralx?
<tumbleweed> test-built the version in sid, FTBFS
<dupondje> hoh
<dupondje> I tought I checked that for oneiric
<tumbleweed> we do have a new gcc...
<dupondje> hmz, current debian version is ftbfs ?
<dupondje> due to ?
<tumbleweed> dupondje: http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/tmp/xaralx_0.7r1785-5_amd64.build
 * dupondje should start working for Canonical :)
<Laney> if you're referring to that URL, all Ubuntu members get that
<dupondje> ah no :)
<dupondje> i'm still not ubuntu member btw :P
<dupondje> tumbleweed: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=52725 seems related
<ubottu> gcc.gnu.org bug 52725 in c++ "error: capture of non-variable (in regards to a variable)" [Normal,Unconfirmed: ]
<tumbleweed> we could just remove the package. Debian removed it from testing years ago :)
<dupondje> let me check, shouldn't be to hard to fix :)
<dupondje> bleh, pbuilder-dist doesn't know quantal
<dupondje> ;)
<tumbleweed> it should
<tumbleweed> what release are you on?
<dupondje> Precise
<tumbleweed> you will need to create a quantal rootfs, of course
<jtaylor> do you ahve debootstrap from backports?
<dupondje> nopes :)
<dupondje> ok, i'm running :)
<dupondje> thx
<dupondje> tumbleweed: fixed that one, getting this now
<dupondje> imjpeg.cpp:773:37: error: 'JPEG_LIB_VERSION' was not declared in this scope
<tumbleweed> sounds liek a missing include
<tumbleweed> or something related to the jpeg library switch we did
<tumbleweed> dupondje: added popcon: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/ubuntu-neglected-packages/
<tumbleweed> (statically generated. can't cron it until we have quantal in ubuntu_sources)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-02
<jsjgruber-x-p> chrisccoulson, Would you mind taking another look at lp: #968759? I wasn't done adding information.
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> tumbleweed: you've there a small typo in your template for the list of neglected packages: the package links (1st column) don't work, looks like you typed one ( instead of a {
<geser> dholbach: good morning
<dholbach> hi geser
<dholbach> l3on, auguri! :)
<geser> tumbleweed: and "oops" is listed with the wrong version
<dupondje> Hmz, valgrind should work trough SSH x forward no ?
<tumbleweed> geser: wrong versions is understandable, the data is a little stale
<tumbleweed> geser: fixed it and re-ran it
<geser> tumbleweed: thanks looks good and the uploader columns reads like a who-is-who of Ubuntu :)
<tumbleweed> :P
<geser> tumbleweed: do you why the uploader name for obextool is broken? the other occurances look ok, bug in the data?
 * tumbleweed looks
<tumbleweed> geser: looks like a screwup in Laney and my LP ubuntu upload history scraping
<Laney> NO!
<tumbleweed> :)
<ajmitch> Laney: your code is perfect?
<geser> ajmitch: do you really have doubts about it? :)
<Laney> it looks broken here too https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/karmic-changes/2009-September/009702.html
<tumbleweed> that upload record can be accessed vi aLP, though
<tumbleweed> have I forgotten how this code works?...
<ajmitch> geser: I could never have doubts about such things ;)
<tumbleweed> I'm happy with blaming LP then
<ajmitch> suits me
 * Laney cannot remember what package lp-shell is in
<tumbleweed> lptools
<Laney> ta
 * Laney tab completed "lp-"
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: you could summon mr grant, he probably knows the history of those upload records
<tumbleweed> my logs for that import say:
<tumbleweed> INFO:lp-udd:Importing SPPH record obextool_0.35-0ubuntu2
<tumbleweed> INFO:lp-udd:Importing SPPH record obextool_0.35-0ubuntu1
<tumbleweed> DEBUG:lp-udd:Skipping duplicate SPPH record obextool_0.33-0ubuntu2
<tumbleweed> no record of falling back to -changes e-mail
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> we download the changelog
<Laney> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/o/obextool/obextool_0.35-0ubuntu2/changelog
<tumbleweed> ah
<tumbleweed> right, that wasn't a sync
<ajmitch> are you currently just trying to process quantal-changes?
<ajmitch> that's one messed up name encoding in the changelog
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: just filed bug 993148
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 993148 in Launchpad itself "Base64-encoded? UTF-8 name in -changes e-mail" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993148
<tumbleweed> but no, not trying to process that
<ajmitch> ignore my speculation then :)
<Rhonda> duh
<Rhonda> Host sulfur.ubuntu.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
<Rhonda> *blinks*
<Rhonda> packages.ubuntu.com now seems to be on jubany and noone told me, and I don't have access there.   %-/
<tumbleweed> RT ticket time?
<Rhonda> new ticket in general, lists, loco or mirrors
<Rhonda> so in general?  *looks at tumbleweed*
<tumbleweed> I actually have no idea, I guess so?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: lol: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mdp/+bug/980602/comments/7
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 980602 in mdp (Ubuntu) "[FFe] python-mdp raises an AttributeError on import" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ScottK> tumbleweed: re neglected packages: superkaramba 	0.36-1ubuntu2  is on the list.  superkaramba | 4:4.8.2-0ubuntu2 |       quantal | source is in the archive (in precise too).   For some reason it picks up an old upload from Breezy.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: looking
<tumbleweed> I wish I could remember how on earth this SQL query works
<ScottK> SQL queries are like that IME.
<tumbleweed> yeah, non-trivial queries get twisty
 * tumbleweed comments it for future
<ScottK> tumbleweed: It might be useful to have uscan results on that page (like PTS does) so it's easy to find ones with new upstream releases.
<tumbleweed> that would require us getting uehs into udd
<tumbleweed> or just correlating them separately
<tumbleweed> ScottK: sorted (re superkaramba, and probably others)
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Great.
<tumbleweed> definitly others
 * tumbleweed tries integrating uehs
<tumbleweed> wgrant: how do I access UEHS' DB?
<tumbleweed> ScottK: added UEHS links for now...
<ScottK> Reasonable first step.  Thanks.
<tumbleweed> now, if we can just make the thing readable on a 27" monitor :P
<wgrant> tumbleweed: There's a postgres database somewhere
<wgrant> Give me a moment, I haven't thought about this in slightly over 4 years...
<wgrant> tumbleweed: dehs database on syklone's old pg8.3 instance (psql should connect to it by default). You have SELECT on everything, if you want anything else poke me.
<tumbleweed> there, all pretty now
<tumbleweed> wgrant: ah, thanks for the read permission
<wgrant> uuuuI have pretty much fogotten all about it over the years, so I have pretty much forgotten what the schema looks like.
 * tumbleweed is busy figuring it out
<tumbleweed> change of plan, reading http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/uehs/no_updated.txt will be much easier
<tumbleweed> ScottK: new UEHS column
<ScottK> Great.
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: doesn't look like hdf5 benefitted from the first round of syncs at all
<tumbleweed> dupondje: any progress with xaralx?
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: looks like the transition tracker does not update properly, checked a "bad" one and its good
<jtaylor> Laney: ^
<tumbleweed> hrm, it's not still pointing at precise is it?
<Laney> perhaps you should tell me which package
<tumbleweed> Laney: the version for hdf5 is clearly wrong
<jtaylor> meep and libcgns
<jtaylor> are good
<Laney> ta
<Laney> so it isn't seeing new versions
<Laney> i updated it to point to quantal though
<Laney> cjwatson: can you check if ben is downloading properly please?
<cjwatson> it's at revno 145 of lp:~ubuntu-transition-trackers/+junk/transition-tracker
<cjwatson> (yes, I ought to switch it to the new tracker ...)
<cjwatson> oh, there's a conflict
<cjwatson> resolved the conflict, hopefully next run should work better
<cjwatson> Laney: ^-
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> there was a local modification?
<jtaylor> it works now, thx
<dupondje> tumbleweed: didn't have time for it yet today
<tumbleweed> np
<tumbleweed> ah, that's a much happier transition tracker
<askhl> Hi.  I have created a manpage exactly as specified at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/dother.en.html#manpage , but when I build a package it says "No such file or directory at /usr/bin/dh_installman line 127".  Any help?
<askhl> The name of the file is ag.1 and it's in the debian directory.
<askhl> The name of that file is listed in "python-ase.manpages" in the same directory (and is the only name which it contains)
<broder> askhl: Paths in .manpages files are relative to the root of the package, not the debian directory. does it work if you use debian/ag.1 in the .manpages file?
<askhl> ooooh...
<askhl> It works!
<broder> cool :)
<askhl> Thanks a lot broder
<askhl> One more thing: If a script contains a language extension (such as .py - yes, I know it's bad style), the manpage will be named script.py.1, but .1 has to be the "first extension".  How can this be solved?
<jtaylor> hey octave got a tracker, Laney can you set that up for quantal too? http://release.debian.org/transitions/html/octave.html
<Laney> er, is it more complicated than that for us?
<jtaylor> I don't see why, though I only just found it
<jtaylor> we have the same octave versions so it should be the same
<Laney> so just the three packages need a rebuild?
<Laney> is a tracker worth it?
<ajmitch> there were more than just 3 on the debian list, wouldn't about the same number need rebuilt in ubuntu?
<jtaylor> there are 59
<jtaylor> its almost done in debian
 * ajmitch hopes there's not another haskell transition :)
<Laney> ok, I assumed the unknown weren't affected.
<Laney> oh, 'good'
<Laney> I ticked that and nothing came up. wtf.
<jtaylor> ^^
<ajmitch> odd
<Laney> fancy new javascript
<Laney> done
<jtaylor> thx
<highvoltage> geez it's almost 18:00 local time and I haven't evan had a chance to moo today.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-03
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> hi geser
<Rhonda> cjwatson_, is https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=19679 proper?  I seem to recall that last time it was put into some "internal" canonical RT I don't have access to?
<cjwatson_> Laney: local modification - just to point to the local mirror
<Laney> ah
<cjwatson> Rhonda: not a sysadmin, I don't know how their priorities work :)
<cjwatson> Rhonda: prod on #canonical-sysadmin?  should be easy
<cjwatson> we reclaimed sulfur since it's a fast powerpc box and we needed another buildd
<cjwatson> well, fast-ish
<Rhonda> cjwatson: Alright, will try there.  I just seem to remember that last time you forwarded it to some internal RT. :)
<Rhonda> Hmm, would mails to rt@ubuntu.com go to rt.ubuntu.com or to the internal RT?
<cjwatson> Rhonda: rt.ubuntu.com
<vibhav> what does rt stand for?
<vibhav> can anybodt have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/accountsservice/+bug/873784
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 873784 in accountsservice (Ubuntu) "reload_passwd uses fgetpwent rather than getpwent, ignoring /etc/nsswitch.conf" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<geser> vibhav: RT = request tracker
<Rhonda> vibhav: Request Tracker
<Rhonda> duh, late :)
<dholbach> Ubuntu Development session (at Ubuntu Open Week) starting in 2 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
 * dupondje is teaching xaralx a lesson :)
<tumbleweed> :P
<dupondje> only sad a test build take +15mins :Â§(
<dupondje> is there a way to make pbuilder-dist use multiple cores ? :)
<tumbleweed> export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=parallel=8 in .pbuilderrc
<tumbleweed> or whatever value is appropriate
<dupondje> sweet :)
<tumbleweed> of course, the package needs to use dh --parallel or equivalent
<dupondje> still using 1 core for xaralx
<dupondje> thats sad on a quad core :)
<gau1991> Hello .........
<gau1991> i am new to Ubuntu to development
<gau1991> is there any we to get inside development?
<arand_> !development
<ubottu> Interested in becoming an Ubuntu Developer? Get started here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<arand_> Hmm, whatever happened to papercuts by the way, is that still going or not?
<tumbleweed> I assume so
<arand_> I guess it isn't new and shiny anymore :)
<dupondje> dpkg-deb: building package `xaralx' in `../xaralx_0.7r1785-5ubuntu1_amd64.deb'.
<dupondje> oh oooh!
<dupondje> +#define JPEG_LIB_VERSION        80
<dupondje> but thats quite dirty ofc
<dupondje> tumbleweed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xaralx/+bug/992941
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992941 in wxwidgets2.6 (Ubuntu) "Remove wxwidgets2.6" [Undecided,Triaged]
<dupondje> enjyo
<eagles0513875> hi guys :)
<dholbach> hi eagles0513875, bobweaver, Resistance
<bobweaver> Hello
<Resistance> dholbach, i'm always here :P
<dholbach> you had some more questions? please ask
<Resistance> my questions are tucked away on some obscure logfile on another machine, hence my saying i'll poke you and the MOTUs later :p
<bobweaver> I found error because I am on 12.10
<bobweaver> it would not build in pbuilder
<Resistance> bobweaver, godforbid you said 12.10
<dholbach> Resistance, ok :)
<dholbach> bobweaver, can you put up the build log snippet on paste.ubuntu.com maybe?
<bobweaver> sure
<eagles0513875> dholbach: just to understand i need to be on 12.10 to do packaging correct?
<Resistance> eagles0513875, nope
<Resistance> eagles0513875, i could tell you that, i'm on Natty and I build things for Precise
 * Resistance keeps tarballs and VMs for Oneiric and Precise around for that reason
<dholbach> it helps if you run the development release in "some way"
<Resistance> no argument there :)
<dholbach> be it a chroot, virtual machine, separate partition or some other way
<eagles0513875> Resistance: your a freak of nature to not run the dev release :P
<dholbach> it's important you are able to test what you build
<Resistance> also no argument there :)
<Resistance> especially when you're a backporter, you need to be able to test the backports :)
<Resistance> anyways, i'll be quiet
<Resistance> :)
<bobweaver> Ok there was two error which I will post on was that it could not find the source package because I had run the command to change the debian/control 3 times so it was name different and also because it I was using 12.10 and not 12.04 :) thanks so much  http://paste.ubuntu.com/964956/
<bobweaver> s|on|one
<bobweaver> dholbach,  if you or others make video tutorial of how to package a updated one I will make video of me shaving my head
<dholbach> bobweaver, it will take a few weeks until I get the time, but: challenge accepted :)
<bobweaver>  \o/
<bobweaver> I will get the buzz clippers ready (by the way I have hair )
<gau1991> hello dholbach, after running pbuilder-dist precise build xicc_0.2-3ubuntu1.dsc, where i can find a updated package??? in my current directory there not a single deb of xicc...
<dholbach> gau1991, ~/pbuilder/<release>_result/
<gau1991> i got.... Thanks dholbach.... :)
<bobweaver> I can not believe how much more simple that was then using dh_make and fakeroot and dpkg-buildpackage and all that jazz
<eagles0513875> dholbach: ping i have a question when you get a chance
<dholbach> eagles0513875, you can just ask your question in here - I'm in a meeting right now
<dholbach> just ask and either I or somebody else will find the time to reply :)
<eagles0513875> dholbach: what kind of hardware would one need to package and test on in regards to ubuntu phone?
<dholbach> eagles0513875, I don't know of any Ubuntu phone
<dholbach> if you mean Ubuntu on Android, then I don't know either I'm afraid - I still have a very old mobile phone
<eagles0513875> dholbach: there is a phone version that canonical is working on i read they are wanting to release with the 14.04 LTS
<eagles0513875> dholbach:  this is what im talkin bout http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/242853/canonical_to_expand_ubuntu_for_smartphones_tablets.html
<dholbach> sorry, I don't know
<dholbach> don't they have any specifics in one of those articles?
<eagles0513875> sadly not
<eagles0513875> im thinking of getting an arm based developers board from linaro to help out with development in that arena
<tumbleweed> dupondje: \o/
<eagles0513875> hey tumbleweed :D
<dupondje> can
<eagles0513875> hey dholbach question for you what happens if you have unpackaged source code how does one go about getting it packaged?
<Resistance> you have to build the package around it or find someone to do that
<Resistance> eagles0513875, you also need to make sure the licensing is compatible
<eagles0513875> Resistance: ok
<Resistance> there are instances where a license on a product is incompatible with Debian licensing policies for packages
<dholbach> eagles0513875, just ask here in the channel - no need to ping me - somebody else might pick up the question as well :)
<Resistance> including non-MOTUs ;)
<dholbach> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/ should have an article about it
<eagles0513875> ok :)
<dholbach> I'm still in a meeting and need to run in a bit
<eagles0513875> ahh ok my bad :(
<dholbach> no no worries
<eagles0513875> ill harass Resistance he enjoys that
<Resistance> you better not
<eagles0513875> Resistance: dont i already do that in trekweb :p
<dupondje> tumbleweed: you upload ?
<bobweaver> If I run debconf in preinst to gather info can the info that is gathered also be using in postinst ?
<bobweaver> like can I call in my postinst script
<tumbleweed> dupondje: I will later. Not at home rgiht now
<jtaylor> what happened to validate-desktop-file?
<jtaylor> ah it was desktop-file-validate
<soaringsky> does the myapp.developer.ubuntu.com process get a package into universe or extras?
<tumbleweed> dupondje: as it's effectively a sync + patch, I'd drop all the old ubuntu-specific changelog bits
<tumbleweed> dupondje: do we know why we are having to define JPEG_LIB_VERSION?
<eagles0513875> hey guys i was just thinking is it possible to do nightly builds for libreoffice that can be put in a ppa for those that want the latest and greatest versions of  Libreoffice from the master branch or something of that sort to help with testing?
<tumbleweed> eagles0513875: talk to sweetshark
<eagles0513875> tumbleweed: hehe ya i know him well so to speak but what would i need to do to get something like that going for 12.04 users as well as next release developers etc that way we can offer the latest version for 12.10
<eagles0513875> would he be the ideal person to speak too?
<tumbleweed> well, he maintains the package
<tumbleweed> backporting it isn't going to be particularly fun, but he should be able to help you
<eagles0513875> tumbleweed: maybe not so much backporting except building and putting in a ppa for users to use
<tumbleweed> it's the same thnig
<eagles0513875> tumbleweed: who would i need to talk to in regards to the ubuntu smartphone version as I am interested in helping with that but i probably dont have the right hardware for it though
<eagles0513875> to test and develop that is
<tumbleweed> eagles0513875: I have no idea what hardware people are using for it
<ScottK> Is there an #ubuntu-phone channel?
<tumbleweed> one assumes so
 * ScottK has a vague recollection of one being mentioned.
<eagles0513875> thanks ScottK :)
<bobweaver> hello there I am running into the error that I do not have permission to write to etc in my make file. which is here http://paste.ubuntu.com/965352/   the command that I am running to build package is      fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -F   maybe the Makefile is under the wrong Dir right now it is under /debian
<ScottK> Or mayber you're writing to an absolute path and not a relative one.
<bobweaver> I am not sure I understand what you mean by "absolute" & "relative" could you explain a little more thanks for helping :)
<bobweaver> are you saying that I need to modify the Makefile ? or are you talking about the dir that the Makefile is under ?
<ScottK> It's the difference between /etc and etc.
<ScottK> You may need to modify the Makefile, I didn't look.
<ScottK> The symptom you are describing is often associated with using absolute paths in the build when you want relative paths.
<bobweaver> Where should Makefile be placed ? or best place to place it after running dh_make -e <email> -c <copyleft> -f foo.tar.gz  ? should it stay under the upsource dir or go under /foo-10-foo/debian/    the reason I ask is after I run dh_make It says something about that But I do not understand what it is
<bobweaver> this is what I am talking about |:|   Please edit the files in the debian/ subdirectory now. You should also check that the foo Makefiles install into $DESTDIR and not in / .
<bobweaver> what does that mean ?
<bobweaver> the Makefile part ^^ I know why it wants me too edit the /debian but I have no clue what it is talking about with the Makefile
<dupondje> tumbleweed: we should include the libjpeg headers, but those have conflicting types with the xaralx code ...
<dupondje> really? xaralx is crappy old
<dupondje> anyway, the JPEG_LIB_VERSION is a 'workaround' :)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: I can live with that, but I prefer a changelog entry that makes that clearer :)
<dupondje> hmz :) tumbleweed you fix the changelog, or I upload new debdiff ?
 * tumbleweed doesn't mind too much
<tumbleweed> just sitting down to do it now
<dupondje> I cant upload anyway *sadface* :)
<micahg> dupondje: I'm sure you'll get there eventually
<tumbleweed> yikes 143 uploads https://launchpad.net/~dupondje/+related-software
<tumbleweed> dupondje: when are you applying for MOTU?
 * dupondje hates writing texts :P
<jtaylor> hehe that stopped me from applying for a quite a while :)
 * jtaylor dreads doing it again for DD :/
 * ajmitch applied when it was much less formal :)
<dupondje> jtaylor: they should have templates ^^
<dupondje> <insert name here>
<dupondje> :)
<jtaylor> I liked the DM application, just copy paste a small line of text and insert maintained pacakges :)
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: DD doesn't require a public grilling on IRC :)
<tumbleweed> and you only need to persuade one person to advocate you
<tumbleweed> (did I just advertise Debian as being easier to get upload rights for than MOTU?)
<micahg> yes :)
 * micahg really should go for DD at some point
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: (and you know you have a standing offer for advocation from me)
<ajmitch> micahg: you should
<jtaylor> I know thanks, my biggest obstacle is more my lazyness
<Laney> you get to read licenses
<Laney> and fix bugs
<Laney> and write shell scripts!
<tumbleweed> and recite policy
<broder> "Debian as being easier to get upload rights for than MOTU"> I am so skeptical
<Laney> nah, but DM is easier than PPU
<Laney> and then much easier to extend
<tumbleweed> broder: the advocation bar is quite high
<tumbleweed> but once you're in the system, you won't be rejected
<tumbleweed> (well, unlikely)
<Laney> your progress might be somewhat slow
<Laney> :P
 * tumbleweed stalled an applicant I was AMing until he sorted his RC bugs out
 * dupondje wanted to upload a new package to his ppa, but doesn't like the 18h delay on the builders :'(
<jtaylor> mine build in one hour
<tumbleweed> https://launchpad.net/builders <- 12hrs for amd64
<jtaylor> though I was bad, uploaded a rebuild where a copy would have sufficed because I want to track how many oneiric user sI have :/
 * tumbleweed has never played with PPA usage stats. Have you written a nice script to produce pretty graphs yet?
<dupondje> was bit more some minutes ago
<EvilResistance> can anyone help me debug this?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/965593/  Been at this for about two weeks and still cant figure out the cause of the break
<EvilResistance> (might be so obvious i'm missing it)
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: slow but works ok http://paste.ubuntu.com/965601/
<tumbleweed> eagles0513875: do you have universe enabled?
<tumbleweed> err EvilResistance
<EvilResistance> tumbleweed:  might not in that chroot
<EvilResistance> should i go an enable it within the chroot?
<tumbleweed> yes
 * EvilResistance knew it was something obvious
<tumbleweed> yikes, my netatalk package has had 1698 downloads. No wonder people e-mail be about it
<tumbleweed> I think I just uploaded it for someone to test, when picking at a lp bug
<dupondje> heh :)
<jtaylor> ^^
<EvilResistance> do backports (when uploaded to [release]-backports) build with universe enabled?
<tumbleweed> EvilResistance: same as non-backports
<tumbleweed> universe packages build with univers, main packages build without it
<Laney> tumbleweed: EvilResistance: Nope, backports has all components
<Laney> primarily to cope with packages changing component across releases
<EvilResistance> Laney:  is that bug that prevents backports from build-depending on other backports fixed yet?
<Laney> no
<EvilResistance> thought not, since i havent seen any updates on it (and I'm subscribed to it)
<tumbleweed> Laney: oh
<Laney> I did double check the code to be sure :P
<Laney>     if pocket == PackagePublishingPocket.BACKPORTS:
<Laney>         return component_dependencies['multiverse']
<broder> tumbleweed: has there been any organization done for a keysigning party?
<broder> (or Laney? i forget who claimed responsibility for this last fall)
<tumbleweed> broder: I was actually thinking about that last night, but it's probably already too late
<tumbleweed> (too late to do organisation-before-we-leave-ohme
<broder> hmm...how much would you really need to do in advance?
<SpamapS> time and a place is all you really need
<ajmitch> depends on how formal you want to be
<tumbleweed> SpamapS: they tend to be crazily disorganised, though
<SpamapS> though the longer you have a single organizer who can print out the sheets .. the more keys will be sent.
<ajmitch> it can be easier if everyone sends in their keys beforehand
<tumbleweed> two UDSs ago, there were two versions of the sheets
<tumbleweed> oh, and last UDS too
 * ajmitch should probably replace his key soon
<SpamapS> The one at UDS-P went well, once the initial "oops!" of printing the wrong things on the page was fixed.
<ajmitch> UDS might be a good chance to do it
<SpamapS> I need to get a 4K key setup
<SpamapS> though IMO if I sign the new key with the old key, it should be enough for people to sign my new one. :-P
<stgraber> ajmitch: yeah, I moved to a 4K key 3 UDSes ago, a day before the key signing :)
<stgraber> SpamapS: some people do, but I had almost half of the people who signed my old key refuse to sign the new one until I see them in person again :)
<broder> i've never been able to decide how i feel about that
<SpamapS> stgraber: thats just because you're so much fun to hang out with
<SpamapS> IMO it should be sufficient to have a signed message from the person whose key you signed, and the signature on the acutal key. It should also be time-sensitive. I'm not going to sign it 2 years after the message was signed and sent.
<tumbleweed> going from http://bad.debian.net/list/2012-April/003491.html someone thinks our keysigning is already scheduled
<SpamapS> But if I verified their identity once, whats the point of doing the verification again? :-P
<broder> SpamapS: i'm not interested in verifying your identity. i'm interested in verifying in a cryptographically trustworthy way that you actually sent the message
<broder> (and that your key wasn't compromised by someone who then signed the message)
<tumbleweed> also, everyone has their own keysigning policies
<SpamapS> broder: which you'd do..since I sent it w/ the key you signed. :)
<SpamapS> well if you don't trust my key anymore.. why did you sign it!? ;)
<SpamapS> tumbleweed: true enough. I'm not sure that actually helps the web of trust though.
<broder> tumbleweed: anyway, based on past experience, there will be a keysigning party. i think it would be awesome if one of us could claim responsibility for it so we can be sure it will be run cluefully and in a way that lets everyone make their respective team dinners afterwards in a timely manner
<broder> since that's been a traditional failure of the uds keysigning party
<tumbleweed> broder: :)
<sbeattie> SpamapS: FYI, if you convert to a 4k key, here's the notes the security team took while doing it for our own keys: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GPGMigration
<SpamapS> sbeattie: thank you!
<SpamapS> As part of getting my DD status they asked me to promise to move to a 4K key
 * ajmitch needs to get a transnational republic ID for a keysigning :)
<tumbleweed> I seem to recall there once being a big stink because someone took a fake ID to a debian keysigning
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: yep, it was that one
<ajmitch> http://madduck.net/blog/2006.05.24:tr-id-at-keysigning/
<SpamapS> tumbleweed: just to test people?
<ajmitch> pretty much
<ajmitch> hopefully my NZ passport looks official enough
<broder> SpamapS: I'd also want to verify the new key in person because I basically don't use the web of trust - I have a one-hop path to everybody I want a cryptographically trustworthy path to
<broder> And trusting your old key to verify the new key breaks that assumption for me
<tumbleweed> well, should we go for 6 PM on wednesday as the locals are expecting?
<broder> isn't it traditionally on thursday?
 * broder is a local not expecting anything
<tumbleweed> I was pointing at http://bad.debian.net/list/2012-April/003491.html (which turned up on a secret list far away)
<broder> i'm not opposed. might be less hectic if there's less stuff happening in the evening currently
<tumbleweed> going from the coordination around release-team dinner, dinners are all over the place
<broder> uds is short. there's probably no way to win here
<ajmitch> trying to schedule anything that doesnt' conflict is a bit of a hassle with this many people
<tumbleweed> http://uds.ubuntu.com/event/ looks liek every evening has events
<broder> if all the events are at 7, we can just have the keysigning party at 6! we'll *totally* all be done in time
<broder> :)
<ajmitch> of course you will
<tumbleweed> we don't all have to sign everyone's key
<stgraber> broder: considering 80% of the attendees are the "usual" ones, I'm starting to wonder if it wouldn't be faster to just do it the old way (everyone distributing pieces of paper) at the meet&greet
<broder> stgraber: interesting. although i feel like i always find that one of the "usual suspects" is someone i haven't actually exchanged signatures with
<ajmitch> I'll have to generate a new key & print out fingerprints before I go then
<broder> basically because i don't actually know who has signed my key :)
<tumbleweed> I cross people off the list before the signing if we've cross-signed
<tumbleweed> but I usually miss a few
<stgraber> broder: I usually look at <current version>-changes for anyone who uploaded quite a lot of packages without enigmail showing me that I have signed their key already
<tumbleweed> (and don't necessarily remember
<broder> heh
<ajmitch> my key probably won't be signed by most of you
<ajmitch> you'll trust that I am who I say I am, right? :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-04
<eagles0513875> hey guys
<eagles0513875> i have a question for the 12.10 release what do i need to do to get make bumped up to 3.82 as with libreoffice there is a bug with a multiple core build that canonicals own sweet shark patched, and there is a modified version of make in the libreoffice codebase which would be great for inclusion. either that or from upstream, I am just not sure if his fix made it into upstream yet
<micahg> eagles0513875: someone will probably pull that in, I'm guessing sweetshark will ask for it
<eagles0513875> micahg: i hope so :)
<eagles0513875> how are you btw
<micahg> eagles0513875: fine, thanks :)
<eagles0513875> looking forward to getting involved this cycle :)
<micahg> eagles0513875: you could prepare the merge after asking the person who touched it last an looking for a bug showing someone working on it
<micahg> and make is probably a topic for -devel
<eagles0513875> micahg: i know sweetshark submitted a atch upstream to make and he has a bug report i will have to get it from him
<eagles0513875> micahg: does it matter if its kubuntu-devel channel or ubuntu-devel?
<micahg> eagles0513875: the patch appears to be in experimental
<micahg> ubuntu-devel for general stuff, kubuntu for kubuntu related
<eagles0513875> :-/
<eagles0513875> what repos does ubuntu pull from in regards to development of each new release
<micahg> by general I mean affecting core stuff
<micahg> eagles0513875: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-April/035154.html
<micahg> see that thread
<eagles0513875> micahg: what about other packages such libreoffice with newer versions and mysql workbench how does that work?
<micahg> eagles0513875: libreoffice sweetshark handles, if you want to help, contact him (#ubuntu-desktop is a good place to discuss), mysql-workbench, feel free to request syncs after Debian Import Freeze (or sooner if something is broke)
<eagles0513875> nothing is broken the problem i think we are going to have is that usually when a new release comes out in the workbench channel we usually tell people to upgrade to the latest version
<eagles0513875> to see if the problem was fixed there
<micahg> or propose bug fixes if you have them into the sponsorship queue (or push to Debian and request a sync when it's released)
<eagles0513875> do you know if someone has started a ppa for mysql workbench which will contain all the latest versions so to speak of workbench?
<micahg> eagles0513875: well, as long as nothing else depends on it, there's always backports, if the one in the release is actually broke, an SRU of some sort could be considered (preferably a targeted fix)
<micahg> even if there are dependencies, they just need to be run/install or build/run/install tested
<micahg> err..install/run or build/install/run
<eagles0513875> wouldnt a ppa be better though to have newer versions as they are released for users to use in between releases?
<micahg> no, backports from oneiric on is on by default (pinned lower so you have to explicitly choose that version), PPAs need to be added to software sources
<eagles0513875> correct
<micahg> so, you reach all users in oneiric+ with backports, seems like the best choice assuming you can get the new release into Ubuntu in a timely manner
<eagles0513875> micahg: so its better to package a newer version and request sponsorship upstream
<micahg> yeah, push to Debian is always going to be best (occasionally you just need release team coordination)
<eagles0513875> micahg: the way i understand things its better to get things in the case of ubuntu into upstream debian or is that not always the case
<micahg> *almost always
<eagles0513875> what would be reasons to where that wouldnt be the case?
<micahg> release schedule timing
<eagles0513875> do you mind clarifying what backports repository actually is
<micahg> eagles0513875: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<eagles0513875> ty
<micahg> eagles0513875: in precise, we have a nice tool called requestbackport in ubuntu-dev-tools
<eagles0513875> so micahg i package up the newer release of workbench then request it be backported
<eagles0513875> then once its backported can it be then moved to the appropriate repository for the next release?
<micahg> eagles0513875: yeah, I'd suggest chatting with the maintainers listed here: http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mysql-workbench.html
<micahg> then you can request a sync to Ubuntu and then once that builds, request a backport to previous releases
<eagles0513875> ya im already doing that
<eagles0513875> well it seems like for precise  you have 38 whch is previous release of workbench which is fine and its in debian finally which is a good thing
<eagles0513875> :) but i will discuss it with them
<micahg> yeah, you could request a backport to earlier releases if you're willing to install/run test them (and it builds)
<micahg> or find someone who's willing to install/run test them
<eagles0513875> micahg: well the workbench devs are already provide their own ubuntu packages
<eagles0513875> they have on their site packages i believe for 10.04 and 11.04
<eagles0513875> anywho i gotta run thanks for the info :)
<eagles0513875> morning dholbach
<micahg> eagles0513875: I have a backporter hat around here somewhere, let me know if I can help
<dholbach> hi eagles0513875
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<Rhonda> Isn't #993262 rather a unity bug?
<Rhonda> And Bug #937790 also seems to be unity related somehow â¦
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 937790 in wesnoth-1.10 (Ubuntu) "Problems with fullscreen mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937790
<Rhonda> ah, is also marked as affecting unity anyway
 * eagles0513875 is still debating if i should update to quantal and get my packaging environment finalized
<eagles0513875> micahg: you said ubuntu-devel would be an ideal place to discuss pushing to bump make up to 3.82 right
<micahg> yeah
<eagles0513875> micahg: tried to poke sweetshark but it seems like he is MIA
<eagles0513875> as hes the one that filed the bug :-/ will do some more googling
<micahg> eagles0513875: huh?  he's in #ubuntu-desktop now :)
 * Rhonda wonders â¦ whether a Games session should be done soonish which does cover actual Free games already *included* in Ubuntu â¦  instead of the one recently covering proprietary games that external â¦   %-/
<eagles0513875> Rhonda: no need go to playdeb.net all debian available games are listed there :D
<eagles0513875> they have their own repo with all the games
<Rhonda> eagles0513875: Yes, and with all new bugs and incompatibilities in them.  Hooray!
<Rhonda> That's still external and from their approach of working totally out of the community.
<eagles0513875> Rhonda: join the getdeb channel i think it is on here and talk with them about the issues
<Rhonda> BTDT, got the frustration.
<Rhonda> They aren't interested in integrating or giving back but keep doing their own thing.
<Rhonda> â¦ which leads to more obscure bugs that annoy regular package maintainers for the regular universe archive.
<eagles0513875> Rhonda: would you like me to try and talk to them
<Rhonda> hah
<Rhonda> eagles0513875: http://www.playdeb.net/updates/ubuntu/12.04/?q=wesnoth-1.10 and click on "Changes"
<eagles0513875> O_o
<Rhonda> I'm quite certain that they do *not* include the patch for using the proper font for older releases.
<Rhonda> And I gave up because it was frustrating.
<Rhonda> They do their thing, they are free to, but I am not interested in their buggy approaches.
<Rhonda> And given that they aren't interested in communication or integration I stopped caring.
<Rhonda> I can't do other bug discourage using playdeb because of such situations on regular basis.
<Rhonda> s/bug/but/
 * micahg would treat it like a PPA and close the bugs !Ubuntu package 
<Rhonda> Right, just wanted to explain to eagles0513875 the background why I don't think bringing up playdeb is a good idea. :)
<eagles0513875> Rhonda: sry
<eagles0513875> what would be interesting and im not sure canonical woudl go for and back is a version of ubuntu dedicated to gamers
<micahg> eagles0513875: you could probably have a game flavour if there was enough support behind it
<eagles0513875> micahg: seeing in the store games like world of goo released for linux
<eagles0513875> micahg: i think though it wouldnt work very well with the current release cycle that ubuntu follows it would have to be more along the lines of a rolling release
<micahg> oh, that..there's already humble bundle and such
<eagles0513875> what do you mean
<Rhonda> goo was in an humble bundle :)
<eagles0513875> technically if you release games on mac they shouldnt need much more work to get them running on linux since mac uses mostly the same technologies as linux
<Rhonda> Erm, â¦ well â¦ no?
<Rhonda> Just because there is SDL and GTK on mac too, but then, that's on windows too?
<Rhonda> Developers still don't regularly settle for that.
<eagles0513875> when i say same technologies i mean such as open gl and all that
<Rhonda> "open gl and all that" is on windows too
<Rhonda> That's a rather naive point of view, or I don't get your point.
<eagles0513875> Rhonda: enlighten me how much more work would getting those games to run on linux require?
<Rhonda> No idea which of "those games" you mean, I didn't code "those games" neither, so I don't have the insight in how heavily they depend on windows-centric (or OSX centric) code they have in there.
<eagles0513875> Rhonda: game development has become easy for all platforms except linux sadly in regards to game engines
<Rhonda> And still you claim that porting a game from OSX to Linux would be a non-brainer?  :)
<eagles0513875> Rhonda: yes i could be missing
<eagles0513875> some things
 * eagles0513875 goes about finishing setting up my packaging environment
<Rhonda> _If_ using the proper frameworks, then yes.  But most games don't.
 * eagles0513875 will also upgrade to quantal once i have a bootable pen drive ready :) in case of a reinstall
<tumbleweed> ScottK: wxwidgets2.6 turned out to be fairly easy to kill. olly has already done all the work in Debian. bug 992941 (if you can do removals)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992941 in wxwidgets2.6 (Ubuntu) "Remove wxwidgets2.6" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992941
<dupondje> master tumbleweed ! :)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: I eventually figured out xaralx's problem. yay for generic names like jconfig
<dupondje> Yea I saw :) good catch
<dupondje> :)
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Cool.
<Rhonda> wx, that reminds me of a required update for pgadmin3 â¦
<bobweaver> Hello there all for taking screen shots of program for software center. Do I have to call it in the Meta Data in the control file ? or do I just upload to site. thanks for your time
<jcfp> bobweaver: iirc those screenshots come from screenshots.debian.net
<bobweaver> cool so I have to submit there when I submit my software but I do not need to call it before build in /debian file is what you are saying. Thanks again for your time
<jcfp> they probably only accept those for software already in the repositories, but yeah, it's not a part of the packaging in the debian dir
<bobweaver> cool thanks again !
<tumbleweed> broder, Laney: looks like lynxman is preparing a keysinging party: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Q/KeySigningParty?action=info
<lynxman> tumbleweed: indeed :)
<tumbleweed> lynxman: you found a spot in the schedule yet?
<micahg> jbicha: you seem to have forgotten -v in your tracker upload :)
<dupondje> some motu going to Oakland ?
 * broder waves
<micahg> o/
<tumbleweed> dupondje: yup
<dupondje> you guys don't have to work ? :p
<tumbleweed> micahg: don't see you on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-motu-bof
<micahg> Just saw it now :)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: my employer is nice. Not quite cool enough to fly me to conferences, but can at least do it on work time.
 * micahg will do another blueprint scour sat night
<dupondje> your lucky :)
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: that's pretty good, I'm doing this on holiday time
<micahg> ajmitch: you're coming to UDS?
<ajmitch> micahg: yeah
<micahg> cool
<tumbleweed> I asked if I could do debconf too, haven't got a firm response yet :P
 * ajmitch had already been to linux.conf.au this yeah, can't complain too much
<tumbleweed> those sound like a lot of fun
<ajmitch> oh that was :)
 * dupondje should really work in a more linux minded company
<jbicha> micahg: you know that I never remember -v :(
<lynxman> tumbleweed: we got Thursday evening assigned as usual, 6:30pm. Just need to get a free room
<tumbleweed> cool
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-05
<broder> Do we have enough backports stuff to talk about that we should have a backports bof?
<ajmitch> it could be useful
<broder> i guess i can put one together
<broder> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-backports-bof
 * ajmitch subscribes
<c_korn> hello, can someone tell me which package adds the javax.media.ConfigureCompleteEvent; library? I did not find it with apt-cache search
<tumbleweed> c_korn: nothing, according to bug 104511
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 104511 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] jmf - Java Media Framework" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/104511
<jtaylor> whats the best way to just mass retry the build of a bunch of packages?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: IIRC only archive-admins can mass retry
<geser> jtaylor: how many packages?
<jtaylor> ~ 30
 * ajmitch thought there was a retry exposed via the API on builds
<geser> ajmitch: yes, there is
<ajmitch> for 30 you may as well just open up 30 tabs & click retry on each
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: yes. But isn't there also a mechanism to mass-retry?
<jtaylor> you can retry via the webpageo launchpadlib can probably do it?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: ubuntu-build is the easy way to do it from the command line
<jtaylor> ajmitch: 30 * 5 for each arch :/
<geser> jtaylor: ubuntu-build --batch --retry pkg1 ... pkgn
<geser> assuming you have the rights to do it
<jtaylor> nice thx
<ajmitch> jtaylor: ah, there is that :)
<tumbleweed> hrm must have been thinking of something else
<geser> jtaylor: you can even limit the give-backs to a subset of architectures if you want (see ubuntu-build --help about Batch processing)
<jtaylor> yes I saw, but I want rebuilds on all archs
<jtaylor> we should have synced octave before the autosyncs :/
<geser> don't you need to build the octave-* packages in the right order?
<tumbleweed> going to need rebuilds?
<ajmitch> have they all FTBFS?
<tumbleweed> aah, I see we already have a tracker: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/octave.html
<geser> tumbleweed: probably s/rebuilds/re-tries/ as there is a bunch on the FTBFS page
<tumbleweed> that's not too bad then
<jtaylor> just retries, they were all built before octave itself was
<dupondje> https://github.com/dupondje/Remmina/blob/master/remmina-plugins/rdp/rdp_cliprdr.c => somebody has a crash with: lf2crlf (size=0xb2d99f0c, data=<optimized out>) at /build/buildd/remmina-1.0.0/remmina-plugins/rdp/rdp_cliprdr.c:162 Any idea's whats i'm missing?
<jtaylor> what do I need to update to get devscripts to default to quantal?
<jtaylor> or is that not done yet?
<tumbleweed> I thought it was done last night?
<jtaylor> hm I only have ubuntu1 not 2, even though I updated an hour ago
<jtaylor> out of date mirror probably ._.
<jtaylor> ah no 2 is only in quantal
<geser> jtaylor: as I didn't have time to do it properly, I just edited /usr/bin/dch and replaced precise with quantal where appropriate
<geser> or wait till bug #994208 got fixed for precise too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 994208 in clang (Ubuntu) "Needs to know about quantal" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/994208
<tumbleweed> see the last two comments on that bug...
<jtaylor> no rush I just though I may need something from backports
<c_korn> thanks tumbleweed, there is jmf.jar in the source tarball maybe I can use this.
<jtaylor> nice version check: http://paste.ubuntu.com/968915/
<jtaylor> of course he package does not match that in its build depends ...
<jtaylor> for silent breakage
<eagles0513875> hi tumbleweed  :) and jtaylor  :)
<bobweaver> hello there I hope you all are having a good day and I am sorry to ask the same question over and over again but I am getting no where with the Makefile   stupid permissions It will not write to the correct directory when building here is the make file . I mean what is up with that. ans why can't I find help for this?
<tumbleweed> bobweaver: sounsd like you need to teach it to use DESTDIR
<bobweaver> tumbleweed,  http://paste.ubuntu.com/969493/
<bobweaver> permission dened over and over again when building
<bobweaver> denied *
<tumbleweed> there are some $(prefix) without $(DESTDIR)/ in front of them
<tumbleweed> but I must run now, plane leaving. good luck :)
<bobweaver> but still even with it like that I should not be getting permission trouble I thought that that is what fakeroot is for ?
<bobweaver> like can not mkdir blah  blah blah    : prermission denied     I need too get over that hump maybe someone else can help me ?
<jtaylor> whats the blah blah blah
<bobweaver> like ever line is permissions denied and also does not send to correct build directory I dont get it why this is so stupid (the make file and me) is past me
<bobweaver> jtaylor,  the blah blah blah is any thing that I put in makefile
<bobweaver> install :
<bobweaver>            mkdir -p $(DESKDIR)/ANY DIR
<jtaylor> give yourself permission to write whereever it wants to write to
<bobweaver> but why is it even writing to the system ? on build of package I want ot too put the upsource in correct place and that is also not happening . By put permissions I will chmod 777 my ect dir but I di not think that that is so smart
<jtaylor> how is the make executed by the package?
<bobweaver> dh_make -e name@foo.com -c gpl3 -f foo.tar
<bobweaver> then mv foo.tar.gz ../
<bobweaver> thenn
<bobweaver> fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -F
<jtaylor> is it really $(DESKDIR)?
<bobweaver> in the make file ?
<jtaylor> have you fixed issue tumbleweed mentioned?
<bobweaver> Like this ? but I donr see how that is going to change anything ? I am still getting permissions problems
<bobweaver> http://paste.ubuntu.com/969534/
<jtaylor> even if DESTDIR is set to a directory where you have write permissions?
<bobweaver> thanks for you help btw
<bobweaver> ahh
<jtaylor> you should make the prefix etc overrideable with ?=
<bobweaver> so I have to set the DESTDIR='$HOME/upsource/debian/tmp  '  ? like that then run build ? is it trying to build it into the real dir and nor temp ?
<jtaylor> if you use dh_auto_build it will do it for you
<bobweaver> doese deb-helper use that? I am sure it does
<jtaylor> yes, whats your debian/rules?
<bobweaver> simple
<bobweaver> there is nothing
<jtaylor> please paste a buildlog with DH_VERBOSE=1
<bobweaver> in rules ?
<jtaylor> yes
<bobweaver> ok going to be a bit this is a big packagae and has to be built in virtual envo I think
<bobweaver> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/zpanelcp/zpanelcp/files
<jtaylor> there is no toplevel makefile, how should debhelper know how to build it?
<bobweaver> it is in /debian
<jtaylor> it won't be run there
<bobweaver> for the time being sorry I should have said that sorry
<jtaylor> even if it would CURDIR would probably be wrong
<bobweaver> thanks jtaylor  thanks I am re-writing now moving as fast as I can thanks for helping me I enjoy this and want to learn how too this :)
<bobweaver> jtaylor,  just too make sre I should make rule file like this ?   # Uncomment this to turn on verbose mode.
<bobweaver> export DH_VERBOSE=1
<bobweaver>  
<bobweaver> just uncomment that line ?
<jtaylor> yes
<bobweaver> thanks
<bobweaver> you want me too make video of this build ?
<jtaylor> no, a logfile is enough
<bobweaver> cool
<bobweaver> here goes nothing :)
<bobweaver> http://paste.ubuntu.com/969585/
<bobweaver> let me know if you need anything else thanks sagain
<bobweaver> again *
<azeem> mkdir: cannot create directory `//etc/zpanel': Permission denied
<azeem> DESTDIR not set
<bobweaver> thanks that is what I thought why is deb helper not setting ?
<azeem> so did you touch debian/rules?
<azeem> if not, do you now have a top-level Makefile?
<azeem> (touch except for the DH_VERBOSE change)
<bobweaver> yes ^^ make is in right place
<jtaylor> why does it install somethingin the build step?
<jtaylor> DESTDIR is only set on install by debhelper
<azeem> yeah
<bobweaver> sorry about the lag I fell down some steps brb
<bobweaver> ok back
<bobweaver> ouch
<jtaylor> bobweaver: if your makefiel does not build anything add just add a all:
<jtaylor> that will run (and do nohing) during dh_auto_build, and dh_auto_install will run make install with DESTDIR set
<bobweaver> like this ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/969612/
<jtaylor> no, keep install
<jtaylor> all:
<jtaylor>  
<jtaylor> install: ...
<bobweaver> sweet thanks
<bobweaver> I am getting so close :)
<bobweaver> thank you all for your help you guys/girls/whatever are just awesome !
<bobweaver> sorry too keep coming back I have been googling what is going on for a while now and can not crack it and need some simple help here is the error http://paste.ubuntu.com/969892/      as  you can see $(DESKDIR)  is acting funny when it tries to run the makefile thanks again for your time.
<jtaylor> its DESTDIR not DESKDIR
<bobweaver> facepalm
<bobweaver> thansk again jtaylor
<bobweaver> jtaylor,  do you have a wiki.ubuntu  ?
<jtaylor> no should I?
<bobweaver> well I four one would put good information about you down on it :)
<bobweaver> for *
<bobweaver> ok I think that my file list may be way too long as I am getting a error when building the md5sum here it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/969963/   I am sure that there is a workaround for this maybe open /usr/bin/dh_md5sum to pass the argument into two sections ?  thanks again
<jtaylor> how many files are in there Oo
<jtaylor> normally you use xargs to get around that
<bobweaver> there is over 4000 upsource files
<jtaylor> they all need to be installed?
<bobweaver> this is my first big package :)
<bobweaver> yeah I tried triming t down will try again
<jtaylor> but 4000 should not hit any limit
<jtaylor> maybe there is something else wrong
<jtaylor> what does this output: cd debian/package-name ; find . -type f  ! -regex '.*/DEBIAN/.*' | wc -l
<jtaylor> replace package-name
<bobweaver> 3617
<bobweaver> I might be able too package the moduals on there own then call to then in the control file ?
<bobweaver> moduals= plugins so to say
<bobweaver> like phpmydamin tie in
<bobweaver> I am going to walk my dog and think about it :)
<bobweaver> gezz I have droped it down too 2569 files and it is still yelling at me
<bobweaver> time to take out roundcube and hack mor at postinst :)
<jtaylor> something else is broken
<jtaylor> I tried it with 20000 files, no problem
<bobweaver> 20 ,000 Oo
<bobweaver> I got it too build :) lets see if it will install now :)
<bobweaver> It is installing \o/
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-06
<lfaraone> jdstrand: in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/honeyd/1.5c-8ubuntu1 you changed the dep to libevent1-dev instead of libevent-dev. It appears to be building against libevent (version 2.something) in Debian, is there a reason it needs the older version of the library?
<ajmitch> lfaraone: it FTBFS in debian with the newer libevent
<lfaraone> ajmitch: ahhhhh, okay.
<ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=651463
<ubottu> Debian bug 651463 in src:honeyd "honeyd: FTBFS (tagging.h:89:6: error: expected declaration specifiers or '...' before '(' token)" [Serious,Open]
<lfaraone> ajmitch: so is the solution to fix the FTBFS, or package the old libevent?
<ajmitch> right
<EvilResistance> ajmitch:  i have a pre-release precise pbuilder base tarball.  given that Precise is now released, would you say it is better to just recreate the base tarball, or to just update that tarball as i would any chroot tarball?
<EvilResistance> s/chroot/base/
<ajmitch> it doesn't seem like a simple & straightforward thing to port to the new API, judging from the upstream bugs linked in there
<ajmitch> EvilResistance: I'd just update
<ajmitch> recreate it if you wish, but it ought to be the same
<EvilResistance> and if that should bug out for some reason, then recreate it?
<EvilResistance> (I assumed update would be sufficient)
<ajmitch> update should be sufficient, are you having problems?
<EvilResistance> no, just curious
<EvilResistance> given that the update is taking a *long time* to complete
<ajmitch> curious
 * ajmitch has to leave, heading to the airport soon
<EvilResistance> another question: in pbuilder (I'm on Natty, planning updating to Oneiric), will I need to add a debootstrap script to allow for Quantal?  (as it doesnt yet exist in Natty in /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/, and I havent checked Oneiric)
<ajmitch> hopefully someone else can help :)
<EvilResistance> well thankfully i think its just inet lag :/
<EvilResistance> but the last one is the more pressing question xD
<EvilResistance> can anyone confirm that the quantal repos are online and responding to requests?  they're 404ing repeatedly in the pbuilder chroot creation process
<jdstrand> lfaraone: at the time it did not build. feel free to take the merge and discard the ubuntu changes if they aren't needed any more
<c_korn> hello, I am trying to package OpenRA for ubuntu and dh_clideps exits with errors. can someone please help me with the problem? http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=RPT1mvKF
<jtaylor> c_korn: I take those macos moduleref's are optional?
<jtaylor> you can --exclude-moduleref them
<jtaylor> but e.g. libGL.so is a missing dllmap
<jtaylor> hm does openra have an embedded tao?
<c_korn> jtaylor: yeah, openra has its own tao in a thirdparty directory and installs them, I tried with the ubuntu tao packages but it seems openra needs opengl 2 and not opengl 3 which is in the libtaoframework-opengl3.0-cil package
<jtaylor> if its unavoidable look at the tao package how it does the dll maps and excludes
<Al-Qaida> inshalla'
<c_korn> jtaylor: you a right. it seems to work with the Ubuntu config files. at least for the SDL dll. I need to try the others too. but can you tell me the difference between this (not working) http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ZrMD3wZH and this (working) http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=nF1cecDc
<c_korn> ah, looks like how the dh_clideps parses the .config files. seems it does not know about the dllentry syntax http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=2hPqUEGj
<jtaylor> yes might be a bug in dh_clideps
<c_korn> hum, these errors remain http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=1mEvdazW
<jtaylor> c_korn: still missing a dllmap to libcg
<c_korn> jtaylor: there is no shlibs file for libCg.so
<jtaylor> c_korn: the debian tao package just does not build that part of tao, is that an option?
<c_korn> hum, so I should try if openra also works without Tao.Cg.dll ?
<c_korn> dh_clideps already warns that there is something missing: dh_clideps: Warning: No Debian dependency data for Tao.Cg (2.0.0.0__52fa5aba625fe731)!
<jtaylor> or you could fix libcg :
<c_korn> you mean the nvidia-cg-toolkit source package?
<jtaylor> yes
<c_korn> jtaylor: ok, will see what I can do. thanks!
<directhex> c_korn: the openra devs seemed hostile towards a package, last time i spoke to them
<c_korn> hum, I just got help in #openra about a package
<directhex> and we don't build Tao.Cg because Cg's non-free, which would make Tao contrib, which would screw with e.g. banshee addins
<c_korn> ah, I see
<directhex> as for bundling... you aren't going to get openra uploaded if the source (orig.tar.gz) contains any precompiled assemblies at all. if it ships a copy of the source, and not binaries, then that's something you can probably get away with
<directhex> i managed to build openra against packaged tao, but that was a year or two ago
<c_korn> hum :/
<v> MOTU!
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-29
<joaquinPlanet> Hello everybody, I need a little help, I got stuck in my learning of packaging, I was reading this guide http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/getting-set-up.html, there is a note that says that is advisable to do packaging in a development version of ubuntu ( I'm currently running ubuntu 13.04 ), it also has a link to here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingDevelopmentReleases, wich tells me several ways to work with the 
<joaquinPlanet> the first one, Why testdrive offers me 13.04, shouldn't in be 13.10?, the second one, Why when I start testdrive always try to install Ubuntu?, third one, Where do I have to install my dev tools in my local machine or in the virtual one?
<joaquinPlanet> Sorry if my questions looks silly, I'm pretty new at this.
<joaquin> somebody has a minute to help me out?
<joaquinPlanet> somebody has a minute to help me out?
<gotwig> jo
<gotwig> please take a look at bug #1174070
<ubottu> bug 1174070 in touchegg (Ubuntu) "Touchegg 1.0 under 12.04, 12.10 causes segfault, is NOT working. missing backporting of 1.1 to 12.04/12.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1174070
<gotwig> ara: hey
<gotwig> hello ...
<gotwig> ricotz: hey, are you a master?
<gotwig> ricotz: can you checkout bug #1174070 ?
<ubottu> bug 1174070 in touchegg (Ubuntu) "Touchegg 1.0 under 12.04, 12.10 causes segfault, is NOT working. missing backporting of 1.1 to 12.04/12.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1174070
<gotwig> ough, I g2g
<ggherdov> Hi all, getting this while trying the upgrade 12.10 --> 13.04 http://bpaste.net/show/ma5h6BlmF5piP2Hyh7YN/ . what's happening ?
<tumbleweed> ggherdov: looks like a broken mirror. also, this isn't a support channel
<ggherdov> tumbleweed: ok thanks. and sorry to be OT.
<ivoks> hi guys... i have a question
<ivoks> synaptic package in nb_NO locale is unusable
<ivoks> there's an error in translation
<ivoks> i'm not sure... what package needs to be rebuilt to pick up new locales? langpack or synaptic?
 * mitya57-mobile 's wifi always stops working when it's really needed
<debfx> micahg: what SRU are you referring to in bug #1036618?
<ubottu> bug 1036618 in Precise Backports "Please backport amd64-microcode 1.20120910-1 (multiverse) from quantal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1036618
<foxx2> hello motus! i have a bit of a strange problem with fakeroot.. "fakeroot: nested operation not yet supported".. my google-fu didnt show anything of any relevance.. ive done this procedure many times and not entirely sure why this error is happening now... any immediate thoughts come to mind?
<jtaylor> how are you using it?
<foxx2> "fakeroot debian/rules binary"
<foxx2> here's the output; http://pastebin.com/icsbACN0
<foxx2> i have a feeling that my debuild stuff is somehow clashing with it
<foxx2> cos im seeing paths relating to another project which have no relevance to this one :X
<jtaylor> how is it executing debian/rules clean when you run debian/rules binary?
<jtaylor> the binary target does not call clean
<foxx2> heh.. i think my build environment is completely fucked. im gonna do it from a clean one and try again
<foxx2> lol yeah there we go, despite running git reset --hard, it didnt remove all the changes, so it was still trying to compile with a bad Makefile. i removed the dir, re-pulled, re-ran fakeroot and now it wokrs fine. fail :X
<foxx2> ty for the help anyway :)
<micahg> debfx: idr, I'd have to look into it
#ubuntu-motu 2013-04-30
<iulian> Rhonda: Someone will have to send out an email quite soon I reckon. Do we want to have the News on packages.u.c? I doubt that our users find that helpful.
<Rhonda> The news on the packages site are more a changelog of what's done.
<iulian> Rhonda: Yes, I can see that. I was just saying that I don't see the point of it being public.
<iulian> Anyway, not a big deal.
<iulian> Uni time.
<Rhonda> Do you see it as problem?
<mhall119> question for any MOTU, unity-tweak-tool needs a screenshot uploaded for Raring, the package is in Universe, but is not showing up on screenshots.u.c, how can they upload something for display in USC?
<tumbleweed> mhall119: I don't know anything about screenshots.u.c, and assume most other MOTUs don't, either
<mhall119> tumbleweed: ok, let me change the question then
<mhall119> unity-tweak-tool is in Universe, and needs a screenshot added, how do they do that?
<tumbleweed> it's hosted on a Canonical server, and presumably someone in Canonical administers it
<tumbleweed> mhall119: no idea
<tumbleweed> looks like the Ubuntu one people look after software center things, these days
<mhall119> tumbleweed: yeah, but they only deal with stuff going through MyApps, not stuff in Universe
<jtaylor> cat launchpad git importer do submodules?
<jtaylor> can
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: #launchpad?
<Laney> no
<Laney> it explodes and dies
<jtaylor> hm bye bye ipython daily build then :(
<jtaylor> now I have to start packaging javascript *shudder*
 * tumbleweed doesn't beleive in submodules
<jtaylor> yes they suck :/
<jtaylor> but having more third party javascript code in your repository than own code is also not nice
<chilicuil> hi there, I'm looking into bug #530036 do you think it may be acceptable for a SRU?, I'm not sure how important is to have a wget 'digest' capable into the stable Ubuntu releases (precise / quantal)
<ubottu> bug 530036 in wget (Ubuntu) "Incomplete realization of http digest auth" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530036
<gotwig> hey
<gotwig> I wanna report a broken package
<gotwig> what to do
<gotwig> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/touchegg/+bug/1174070
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1174070 in touchegg (Ubuntu) "Touchegg 1.0 under 12.04, 12.10 causes segfault, is NOT working. missing backporting of 1.1 to 12.04/12.10" [Undecided,New]
 * Rhonda nibbles again on Laney
<Laney> Rhonda has a career in Ubuntu support ahead
<ScottK> mhall119: Own answer is get the package in Debian.  Screenshots from screenshots.debian.net/org (I don't recall which) are automatically pulled in.
<mhall119> ScottK: I'm not sure Debian would want a tweak tool for a desktop shell that isn't in Debian
<Rhonda> Laney: pah :)
<Rhonda> Laney: Now I'm even summoned to unrelated bugs to comment on launchpad. :)
<Laney> have you had a packages related email?
<Rhonda> Of course.
<Laney> You could just remove it
<Rhonda> Why else would I nibble on you. :)
<ScottK> mhall119: Sure, just saying that's the only way I know.
<Rhonda> No, I enjoy the nibbling invites. ;)
<Laney> no, I mean have you ever had an on-topic email as a result of it?
<Rhonda> Yes, just recently.
<Rhonda> "raring isn't the default"
<Laney> heh
<mhall119> ScottK: thanks anyway
<chilicuil> does anyone knows of an alternative to dpkg-shlibdeps?, I'm trying to get all the dependencies of a binary file, but dpkg-shlibdeps requires I setup a packaging directory tree, and I don't want to hack my own ldd + apt-file script
<maxb> ldd alone is no enough?
<maxb> Or you want the deps translated into package names?
<chilicuil> maxb: yes, I want to get the package names where are the .so libraries
<maxb> I think you're stuck with dpkg-shlibdeps then
<chilicuil> maxb: thanks for replying =), I'll give it a shot or write my own script
<Unit193> for file in $(ldd path/to/program | awk '{print $3}') ; do dpkg -S $file ;done    :P  (Though, I don't think I'd use it.)
<chilicuil> Unit193: cool, I've just though in ldd /path/to/program | sort -n | uniq | awk '{print $1}' | xargs -i apt-file search {} #will test both =)
<Unit193> I clearly didn't bother to add uniq, was just an example.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-01
<uber> I need some testers for a Debian package I've built for the latest release of DocFetcher. It was a little tricky. Its available for only amd64 right now. You can install the .deb package from http://uberstudent.net/pool/main/d/docfetcher/
<vibhav> topic
<vibhav> oops
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Saucy open for development. | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs | Small tasks: http://goo.gl/bSual
<alo21> hi everybody... can I start importing package to 13.10?
<geser> alo21: the auto-import seems to be running already
<alo21> geser, so I can start working on merge (if needed)
<geser> yes
<alo21> thanks
<jtaylor> I'd wait with merging for a bit
<jtaylor> debian will unfreeze soon so you may have to merge again
<geser> is it kind of certain that Debian will release the next weekend? or did it got moved?
<jtaylor> I think its still on track
<alo21> jtaylor, ou...OK, I will wait... and which repository do I consider? main, universe or multiverse?
<jtaylor> whatever you want to work on
<alo21> perfect
<jtaylor> just tell the merge owner before you start
<alo21> yea... sure. As you told, is better if I start next week
<jtaylor> can someine in raring please install libjs-mathjax and pastebin: dpkg -S MathJax.js
<geser> would a raring pbuilder work too?
<jtaylor> probably not
<jtaylor> one of the listed files is missing on my system and I'm very sure I didn't delete it by hand
<jtaylor> but regular files should not disappear during upgrades, must be something I did then
<mapreri> jtaylor: if you need it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5622640/
<jtaylor> mapreri: do both files exist?
<mapreri> umh... nope
<jtaylor> the second one is missing?
<mapreri> only the first, libjs-mathjax: /usr/share/javascript/mathjax/unpacked/MathJax.js
<mapreri> jtaylor: yes
<jtaylor> ok so its not just me
<jtaylor> how can a non symlink file disappear on upgrade?
<mapreri> jtaylor: in a "clean" saucy installation both the files exist
<jtaylor> yes on a clean install its fine, it will also reappear if you --reinstall
<jtaylor> so it must be an upgrade issue
<mapreri> jtaylor: is a bug existing against it? and how do you find it??? (i don't use this package, i don't know why I installed it...)
<jtaylor> one of my packages depends on it
<jtaylor> one sort of failed because the file was missing
<jtaylor> hm I can't reproduce it :/
<mapreri> like every evil bug! ;)
<Laney> debfx: nice backports work!
 * iulian might consider doing some backports triaging when he's got more free time on his hands.
<Laney> w00t
<debfx> Laney: thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-02
 * Elbrus recently got PPU rights and can now see private bugs... he is wondering what I need to verify before he can mark them public (bug #927125)
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 927125 could not be found
<Elbrus> there doesn't seem to be real private info, but I am unsure about these Registers.txt etc.
<mitya57> Elbrus: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Apport_crash_reports has some info on what to check
<Elbrus> mitya57: thanks (no CoreDump.gz in this case though)
<Elbrus> Stacktrace failed...?
<mitya57> Elbrus: the retracing service removes CoreDump.gz if retracing was successful
<mitya57> it was in this case
<Elbrus> but the StackTrace.txt says: Processing Failed
<Elbrus> mitya57: so this bug could be public, because the CoreDump was removed and ebook-speaker is not doing anything potentially private?
<mitya57> that's an HTML page
<mitya57> so probably some error on LP side
<Elbrus> thought so
 * mitya57 will now ask on #launchpad
<Elbrus> mitya57: do you agree that that bug can be public?
<mitya57> Elbrus: hm, there's a lot of file names in bug description
<mitya57> I would prefer to keep it private
<Elbrus> ok, so indeed these kind of things can be considered private, ok
<Elbrus> but if I reply to the bug, the OP still gets the mail right?
<mitya57> yes
<Elbrus> I am getting a "syncpackage: D: Source package daisy-player is temporarily blacklisted (blacklisted_current). Ubuntu ignores these for now. See also LP: #841372"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 841372 in Launchpad itself "Incorrect auto-blacklisting in DSD?" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/841372
<Elbrus> does that mean I should use -f on syncpackage if I want to sync?
 * Elbrus is trying to do his first Ubuntu sync ever
<mitya57_> strange, I don't see why it can be blacklisted
<Elbrus> anyway, I get: syncpackage: Error: Not permitted to upload directly to saucy; try saucy-proposed instead.
<Elbrus> so I must be doing something wrong as far as I understand it.
 * Elbrus should have upload rights for daisy-player
<Elbrus> and if I use sausy-proposed (--simulate), it includes the whole history, so that can't be right either.
<Elbrus> AFAIUI
<mitya57_> Elbrus: no, it doesn't include the whole history for me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5627022/
<Elbrus> mitya57_: indeed, but only to saucy
<Elbrus> mitya57_: if I use saucy-proposed than it does
<mitya57_> my paste says: -> saucy/Proposed
<mitya57_> do you have the latest distro-info-data?
<Elbrus> how do I know?
 * Elbrus works on his Debian wheezy system
<Elbrus> so propably not
<mitya57_> you should have 0.14
<mitya57_> http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/distro-info-data/news/20130425T153244Z.html
<Elbrus> missing... indeed
<mitya57_> when you update you should be able to simply do syncpackage daisy-player -d experimental
<mitya57_> ah, and you also need ubuntu-dev-tools from experimental :)
 * Elbrus did his first sync (well, waiting for the e-mail)
<Elbrus> :)
 * mitya57_ has only done two syncs so far :)
<Elbrus> mitya57_: thanks for your help
<mitya57_> yw
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-03
<hannie> I have waited for 3 months to get https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/2076/ in Ubuntu Software Center
<hannie> I understand I have to do it through MOTU
<hannie> New MOTU contributors (who are not members of the MOTU team yet), need to get their packages reviewed and signed off by two MOTUs (core-devs are included in this) to get them uploaded to Ubuntu.
<hannie> This app is the Dutch translation of Getting Started with Ubuntu which is already in USC
<hannie> dch --create
<hannie> dch: fatal error at line 592:
<hannie> Cannot find debian directory!
<hannie> Are you in the correct directory?
<hannie> Which directory am I supposed to be in?
<mitya57> hannie: in the directory that is parent to debian/
<hannie> thanks, I will see if I can find it
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-04
<sicness> Can someone help me? I want to understand next thing: I want to make deb from pypi package and add some file from it to /usr/local/bin/ . Where I can set it?
<tumbleweed> sicness: packages shouldn't touch /usr/local - that area isn't managed by the distro, it's for the sysadmin to install things built from source
<sicness> ok, where I should put bin file?
<sicness> And how can I do it?
<tumbleweed> have you read the packaging guide? http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/
<tumbleweed> our standard packaging tools will put python modules in the right place
<sicness> And wnat to put mudule and one executable file to $PATH
<sicness> sorry ) I want to put mudule and one executable file to $PATH
<tumbleweed> your setup.py will install the module to the right place. for the executable, /usr/bin is probably where you want it
<sicness> Can I use "install file" for place one file to /usr/bin ?
<sicness> For example "foo usr/bin" in "install" file ?
<tumbleweed> yes
<sicness> "foo" file should be in "debian" directory ?
<tumbleweed> no
<sicness> 1 dir upper?
<tumbleweed> yes
<sicness> :) Thx a lot.
<sicness> How about executive bit?
<tumbleweed> you mean executable. dh_fixperms will set that, if it wasn't set
<sicness> ok, thx
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-05
<alo21> hi... now that debian 7.0 has been release, that means we can start import package form unstable. right?
<debfx> alo21: packages from unstable are already auto-synced to saucy
<alo21> debfx, hhmm, and talking about merging?
<debfx> the thing that has changed is that debian maintainers will upload stuff to unstable that they have held off because of the freeze
<debfx> it might make sense to wait a bit before merging packages because I'd expect many packages updates in the next few days
<quidnunc> Does anyone know how to get MP4Client from gpac to work?
<quidnunc> It seems to be missing a library path
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-28
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-29
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-04-30
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> hallo
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-01
<Laney> oh tarball-in-tarball, how elegent you are
<ScottK> Elegant must mean something different in the UK than it does here.
<xnox> ScottK: http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/16/13/161359_dde97bef.jpg
<xnox> ScottK: hipsters in east london, shoreditch would call ^ elegant.
<ScottK> Well. There's no accounting for hipsters no matter where they are.
<Laney> I had either fun or no fun, can't remember which now.
<xnox> Laney: you were a hipster 8) pics or it didn't happen =)
<Laney> If only I had you on snapchat ^o)
<xnox> Laney: you can sent pics via facebook messenger as well.
<xnox> Laney: i guess you don't want me to save them =)
<Zhenech> i heard there is this new shit called email.
<Laney> hahaha
<Unit193> Logan_: OK, I've contacted the darkice maintainer now, happy? :'(
<Unit193> :P
<Logan_> yes
<Unit193> Generally the Ubuntu delta for it is 'compile with lame', don't think Debian will go for that one still.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-02
<j_f-f> Hi, can elseware restart the EeeBotu from #ubuntu-bugs-announce? hggdh seems offline the last days :(
<hggdh> j_f-f: no, only I have access to it. Restarting the beast now
<j_f-f> hggdh: Thanks :-))
<SnowDust> hi all a noob quest
<SnowDust> how to add a .deb to ubuntu universe for 12.04
<SnowDust> can anyone help plz
<SnowDust> he'll loo
<SnowDust> waiting
<SnowDust> anyone there to help me on my noob quest
<Rhonda> You can't add a .deb to an already released version.
<Rhonda> You could create a PPA though, and distribute it through there.
<ScottK> Or get it into a later version and the backport it.
<SnowDust> means if 12.04 did not include a package we cannot get it in any future 6 month version upgrades
<ScottK> !backports
<ubottu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<ScottK> SnowDust: We're developing for 14.10 now.  Packages can be gotten into that version.
<SnowDust> ScottK  I am a openstack dev we use 12.04 n desperately need a package in it :-)
<ScottK> SnowDust: Right, but once you get it into 14.10, you can backport to 12.04 and backports is enabled by default in Ubuntu.
<ScottK> If you want something in the official archive, that's pretty much the only way.
<Unit193> (But pinned at 100)
<ScottK> Pin doesn't matter if the package doesn't exist in another pocket.
<ScottK> So for new packages, you just install and they come from backports.
<SnowDust> thank you all for getting me started
<SnowDust> will b back with my further research :-)
<SnowDust> thanks again for much needed help
<Unit193> Yeah, figured it'd be good to note, in case he needed something newer too.
<Ozzyboshi> Hello chat, I wrote a little indicator for ubuntu, I 'd like to put it to ubuntu software center, is there a way to accomplish that or should I pass throught Debian official repositories?
<ScottK> Indicators don't really go to Debian.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-03
<vincent_c> Noskcaj: pinging you here since you aren't in #debian-python right now
<vincent_c> any plans on dealing with http://bugs.debian.org/746251 ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 746251 in catfish "catfish: /usr/bin/catfish fails to run - no such job error" [Serious,Open]
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-04
<fcuk112> did the developer week happen in March?  anyone got a link to the irc logs?
<dodobrain> hi all.. is it safe to upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04 ? i waited a few days to see if some major issues turn up
<teward> dodobrain: i've seen mixed information on the upgrades, for some it works ofine, for others, there's been other issues.  either way, you should back up your data before ANY upgrade procedure, whether it works or not.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-04-27
<pipedream> I have a case where dh_install turns a symlink into an empty folder. (please assist)
<pipedream> 0 jan@snapperkob:~/src/sagemath-upstream-binary/sagemath-upstream-binary/debian$grep local install
<pipedream> amd64/local /usr/lib/sagemath
<pipedream> 0 jan@snapperkob:~/src/sagemath-upstream-binary/sagemath-upstream-binary/debian$ls -ldp ../amd64/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sagenb-0.11.4-py2.7.egg/sagenb/data/mathjax /usr/lib/sagemath/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sagenb-0.11.4-py2.7.egg/sagenb/data/mathjax/
<pipedream> lrwxrwxrwx 1 jan  jan    32 Apr 17 23:19 ../amd64/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sagenb-0.11.4-py2.7.egg/sagenb/data/mathjax -> ../../../../../../share/mathjax//
<pipedream> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Apr 25 06:39 /usr/lib/sagemath/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sagenb-0.11.4-py2.7.egg/sagenb/data/mathjax//
<pipedream> ah
<pipedream> is this query supposed to go to ubuntu-packaging.
<pipedream> soz
<mitya57> pipedream: I think you should link using dh_link, after installing everything else
<mitya57> pipedream: also your packaging looks broken, there should not be "amd64" hardcoded or "local"
<pipedream> Will dh_link overwrite an existing directory?
<pipedream> mitya57: this is a large open source tree currently packaged as a binary package as debianization is in progress for 6 years now
<pipedream> so I copy a built binary (including the open source tree) into place
<pipedream> ppa:aims/sagemath
<pipedream> www.sagemath.org
<pipedream> so the packaging is temporarily broken but fulfilling a community need for several years
<pipedream> "broken"
<pipedream> it uses dh_install to copy stuff into place, as if it were a binary package
<pipedream> never mind that
<pipedream> why does dh_install take a folder into place and then take folder/path/path/path/symlink and change symlink into a folder
<pipedream> ?
<pipedream> all the other 1000 symlinks un subfolders work fine
<mitya57> pipedream: dh_link will overwrite existing files (it uses ln -sf internally)
<mitya57> pipedream: I don't remember the details, but I think you really shouldn't do the linking manually before the dh_install
<pipedream> sorry, which linking manuall?
<pipedream> Oh, the stuff in the source tree
<pipedream> I don't do it in the packaging
<pipedream> I inherit a source tree with many symlinks
<mitya57> pipedream: Did you try to collaborate with Debian Science team? I see there are some not-very-old sage-related packages there.
<mitya57> Like http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/debian-science/packages/sagenb.git/
<pipedream> Yes, I do
<pipedream> That is in progress since 2008, died in 2010, resurfaced 2 years ago, and is a long term project to get almost 100 package version in debian right
<pipedream> in the meantime, we need an auto-update single click install
<pipedream> does dh_link always run after dh_install, or in the order of my rules file?
<mitya57> If you are using dh(1), then dh_link is run after dh_install*
<pipedream> (also WHY does dh_install chagne a symlink into a folder ... )
<mitya57> File a bug if you think it's wrong :)
<pipedream> it looks like ln -sf will create a symlink inside the folder, not replace the folder
<pipedream> mitya57: not sure it is wrong, not experienced enough with packaging
<pipedream> mitya57: many thanks, it will take me some hours to test
<pipedream> I may have to just fix it in a postinst :(
<mitya57> postinst is not needed, you can fix it in override_dh_install
<pipedream> ah
<pipedream> Could I add a dh_link in my override_dh_install just before running dh_install?
<mitya57> Can you just call it after, preferably using debian/*.links?
<pipedream> From my test with ln -sf, the symlink would be inside the folder not replacing it
<pipedream> So I built a PPA with before dh_install (in my override_dh_install) a line:
<pipedream> dh_link ../../../../../../share/mathjax/ /usr/lib/sagemath/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sagenb-0.11.4-py2.7.egg/sagenb/data/mathjax
<pipedream> this at least fixes the bug for now
<pipedream> I still want to figure out the root cause and do that better
<teward> what's the general time before a backport request for Universe is looked at?
<teward> (from filing with requestbackport to final processing)
<micahg> teward: anywhere from a few minutes to weeks unfortunately, but I can have a look later if no one beats me to it
<teward> micahg: OK, no rush, it's just a prerequisite backport for a ZNC backport.
<micahg> I saw the znc/swig backport requests
<teward> yeah those're the related ones
<teward> (swig is the prereq)
<teward> micahg: with regard to the swig backport request, would a build test in the same backport build tests PPA I'm already using (whcih only has the swig package) work?  I can't test locally right now due to not having a Linux system to test with.
<micahg> yes, it should
<teward> (sorry i'm a little lazy today, and don't want to open my web browser xD)
<teward> OK
<teward> micahg: can you un-X the box for the install/run test for swig3.0 itself for me as i'm in the middle of another task that takes precedence
<teward> (otherwise I'll go edit the description shortly)
<teward> (when done)
<micahg> that's fine, it's set to incomplete waiting on you, so no rush
<teward> i have a thousand things on my radar due today so meh
<teward> :P
<micahg> teward: no rush, can be whenever you get to it
<teward> micahg: build tests are running, although I went ahead and also did the backportpackage for 'znc' pointing at the PPA for upload destination for both Trusty and Utopic
<teward> since iirc a Utopic test is necessary for the backport.
<teward> micahg: do you need me to file a separate backport bug against trusty-backports and utopic-backports for the znc backport?
<micahg> requestbackport can file both at once, or if you want to use the existing bug that was filed for ZNC,  you can add a second task
<micahg> (it just adds a second task)
<micahg> s/it/requestbackport)
<teward> micahg: right, i know it can file both at once - my question is if you want to for the existing bug against ZNC that requested the backport in the wrong manner
<teward> i'm tempted to file via requestbackport and then reference the bug against Ubuntu's ZNC package in it like I did for the swig dependency.
<teward> or mark the existing package-targeted bug as a dupe against the backports target bug, but meh
<micahg> that's fine, whatever is easiest for you
<micahg> sometimes I copy/paste from requestbackport, sometimes I file a new one
<teward> mmm
<teward> micahg: what do we do about reverse suggests?
<teward> i'm not 100% familiar on testing those so a primer/explanation would be nice
<micahg> not required
<teward> micahg: so where it says Reverse-Suggests under Reverse Dependencies in the output of requestbackport, i can ignore those reverse-suggests?
<micahg> suggests are nice to have packages that enhance functionality, but aren't required
<teward> (the relevant source packages don't build-dep)
<micahg> yes
<teward> I'll make a note there, thanks.
<teward> micahg: what about debug symbols?  In the past 'install' was the only test needed, with previous ZNC backports back in pre-Trusty or something, i forget how long it's been since i did a backport req of it xD
<micahg> I don't think you have to worry about those unless something else depends on it
<teward> OK - it's listed though in the 'install and run' tests.
<teward> can I mark it as "Test Not required" or is an installation test sufficient
<micahg> yeah, that's automated output
<micahg> installation should be fine
<teward> i'll make a note as to why it doesn't need a runtest (as it's just debug symbols)
<teward> micahg: filed as https://bugs.launchpad.net/trusty-backports/+bug/1449248 - i just need to wait for the PPAs to finish publishing then I'll do runtime tests.  Assuming I still have a utopic VM.  If not i"ll have to go find a Utopic ISO or something to test with...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1449248 in utopic-backports "Please backport znc 1.6.0-2 (universe) from vivid" [Undecided,New]
<micahg> ok, thanks
<teward> (the previous bug on this has been marked as a dupe of this one, because that's the easiest thing to do in this case)
<micahg> I'll keep an eye on my email
<teward> OK.  the swig3.0 test is done though since it built without incident on Trusty in that PPA per our discussion.
<teward> micahg: also note that for the ZNC backport request, I've gone and actually defined the run tests and the install tests, and why -dbg has no run test.
<teward> (because i'm paranoid about details xD)
<micahg> thanks, I like details :D
<teward> micahg: there needs to be one tiny packaging fix to make the dev tools work fine, and it just needs to call upon libicu-dev in the build deps for znc-dev... :/  that's already existing in Utopic and makes module builds work seamlessly.  (This is a bug identified in my PPA version for ZNC stable (from Debian) as well, and I have it on my radar to test Debian as well)
<micahg> teward: is that a fix needed in later releases?
<teward> micahg: yes, in utopic and vivid, and while I could easily debdiff it in a matter of seconds it still needs upstreamed to Debian
<teward> it also needs the fix for Trusty as well
<micahg> ok, let's fix it in the later releases and backport the fixed version then
<teward> OK
<teward> micahg: there's no Ubuntu bug on it, yet, but I know for a fact Trusty, Utopic, and Vivid are affected per https://bugs.launchpad.net/teward-ppas/+bug/1445163 which is actually where the unofficial ZNC PPA (based directly off Debian) is tracked.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1445163 in Tracker for teward's PPAs "[znc] Modules using `libicu-dev` features won't compile under Trusty" [Medium,Triaged]
<micahg> ok, I can give you tasks for all the releases once there's an Ubuntu bug
<teward> yep i'll nominate
<teward> i'm targeting it to Vivid, actually, since that's affected, and a backport of 1.6 from Vivid would be impacted by this bug
<teward> micahg: are you able to approve Vivid nomination for a bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/znc/+bug/1449271)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1449271 in znc (Ubuntu) "znc-dev 1.6 will not compile modules which need libicu functions." [Undecided,New]
<micahg> added for trusty-vivid
<teward> micahg: that will only apply to backports - 1.4 and earlier don't have the issue
<micahg> oh, haha, right
<teward> (it affects Trusty - Vivid with 1.6.x but not preexisting variants in Trusty and Utopic)
<micahg> I thoguht we had 1.6 in trusty and utopic for some reason :-/
<teward> not yet :P
<micahg> fixed :)
<teward> micahg: granted my PPA does have it, but that's based off the Debian pacakge anyways :P
<micahg> and those won't be affected once vivid is fixed :)
<micahg> easiest thing is probably to get it fixed in Debian, sync'd to w, sru backport to vivid, and then regular backport to t and u
<micahg> (assuming that's the only fix in the Debian upload)
<teward> i only just filed it in Debian
<teward> the system hasn't returned the bug number yet
<micahg> well, it's simple enough to SRU on its own, but if Debian is quick to fix, consistent package versions make updates easier :0
<teward> lol bugs.debian.org is slow in catching up xD
<teward> micahg: agreed, hopefully Patrick Matthai is fast to respond/handle.
<teward> well, in the interim i tested the other components of the ZNC source package and they work so meh
<micahg> ok, so at least the swig backport can go forward
<teward> micahg: correct.
<teward> micahg: which would block any other backport anyways (ZNC or others needing swig3.0 although I don't know what does off hand)
#ubuntu-motu 2015-04-28
<pipedream> mitya57: I think my symlink/directory packaging problem was due to the change from folder to symlink in an upgrade: https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Dpkg/FAQ#Q:_Will_dpkg_replace_a_symlink_with_a_directory_or_vice_versa.3F
<mitya57> pipedream: well, you said that symlink was replaced with a directory at build time, not at install time
<varp> Hello, everyone! =)
<varp> I have compiled snort package in my PPA
<dholbach> good morning
<varp> i've compiled the package from ubuntu upstream
<varp> what i mean
<varp> bzr branch ubuntu:snort
<varp> the last version of snort in the ubuntu upstream is 2.9.7.0
<varp> as may you know, new version of snort is out 2.9.7.0
<varp> ohh sory
<varp> 2.9.7.2
<varp> i've made decision to update package in the snort package in my ppa
<varp> sorry for a long prelude =)
<varp> i've done following for building new version
<varp> 1. bzr branch ubuntu:snort
<varp> 2. download the snort latest tarball 2.9.7.2
<varp> 3. bzr merege-upstream /path/to/latest/snort/tarball
<varp> The question is
<varp> Is that correct way of updating package to the new upstream ?
<varp> Why i asking. When i did these steps I confront with that, I need to fix quilt patches manually
<varp> Any suggestions ?
<varp> Any help gents ?
<varp> Guys how i can skip applying patches during bzr buildeb ?
<pipedream> mitya57: no, it is an upgrade issue, I was wrong, it was not at build time
<pipedream> mitya57: the deb says it contains a symlink
<pipedream> so it was at install time
<pipedream> (a new install would not show this problem, oly an upgrade)
<mitya57> Then you need to remove the old directory in preinst
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> vivid released, but what's the new devel release?
<Rhonda> Because "devel" still claims its codename is vivid?
<Laney> unknown ...
<Rhonda> unknown is a strange codename
<Rhonda> unknown unicorn?
#ubuntu-motu 2015-04-29
<ScottK> Rhonda: Unknown because we don't know.
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> Whom to poke about blocking wesnoth-1.13?  It's the upcoming devel release, it's not packaged in Debian yet, but I want the sync block in place right ahead. :)
<Rhonda> ScottK, are you on that team or rather do you know whom I can pester with that request? :)
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: why doesn't it go into experimental, then?
<Rhonda> For better exposure to more people testing it.  It can be side-by-side installed with other versions.
<tumbleweed> being in experimental doesn't mean it can't be installed side-by-side
<tumbleweed> but yes, users would have to enable experimental
<teward> micahg: ping
<sil2100> o/
<micahg> teward: pong
<teward> micahg: any update on the swig backport?
<teward> or is it just sitting idly in the queue
<micahg> teward: I have it on my list, just haven't gotten around to processing yet
<teward> ok
<ScottK> Rhonda: For better or worse, Mark himself picks the name so we're in a wait state in the meantime.
<Laney> ScottK: I think she meant the sync blacklist with that comment addressed to you..?
<ScottK> Oh
<tumbleweed> I suppose we could also hint against migration. But that's not really the point of -proposed
#ubuntu-motu 2015-04-30
<dholbach> good morning
<ScottK> Rhonda: Added wesnoth-1.13 to the sync-blacklist.
<Rhonda> ScottK: Thanks!
<ScottK> yw
<reversiblean> what file should i look into to, change unity launcher (.desktop) for a package in launchpad?
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-01
<reversiblean> How can we change the Unity Launcher .desktop file for a package?
<reversiblean> I'm about to submit a patch to debian upstream. And what if it fixes a bug opened in launchpad, can I add 'Closes: #bugid' in the changelog?
<ari-tczew> reversiblean: Closes: #XXXXX fixes a bug in Debian reported on BTS.
<teward> ^ that
<teward> (i was about to say it)
<ari-tczew> In Ubuntu, you can use in d/changelog a phrase LP: #XXXXX which fixes a bug reported on Launchpad.
<ari-tczew> Personally, I use Closes: #XXXXX in d/changelog for Ubuntu as a confirmation that patch (delta) has been forwarded to Debian.
<Laney> you can put LP: #foo in a Debian changelog and it will work fine to close a Launchpad bug when the package is uploaded to Ubuntu
<teward> Laney: of course it's up to Debian to 'accept' such a changelog entry, no?
<Laney> Hm. That's a weird way of putting it. If it's not in the changelog then it won't do it.
<Laney> If it is then it works. I think that was what reversiblean was asking.
<Laney> LP: #xxx for Launchpad, Closes: #yyy for the Debian BTS.
<reversib1ean> Laney: Sorry for the late reply. So how can I actually send it to Debian since there's no bug opened there?
<Laney> reversib1ean: Probably open one. The maintainer should add Closes: for you when they include the fix, or else you can wait to get the bug number and then send the patch in.
<Laney> so ideally the upload will include both Closes: and LP:
<reversib1ean> Laney: okay. Should I have to do anything with launchpad then? Or just let launchpad to get it from the upstream.
<Laney> reversib1ean: You can link the bugs once you get a bug number in Debian, then people can find it if they start in LP
<Laney> That's "Also affects Distribution"
<reversib1ean> Laney: how do we actually link btw?
<Laney> following "Also affects distribution/package" and then giving the URL of the debian bug
<reversib1ean> Laney: Thanks a lot
<Laney> no worries!
<reversiblean> Package guide mentions about a folder ~/pbuilder/<release>_result/. But I don't have such folder.
<reversiblean> Result .deb files are in the /var/cache/pbuilder/.. instead
<reversiblean> I get error when bzr push
<reversiblean> Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~reversiblean/ubuntu/vivid-proposed/gnome-terminal/fix-for-1268673": No such distribution series vivid-proposed.
#ubuntu-motu 2016-05-05
<persia> Good day.  I recently approached completion of retiring my Ubuntu membership, because I haven't been active in Ubuntu.  As it turns out, I end up using some of the rights and privileges associated with membership for lots of things, so rather than completing the process of going away, I should probably fix the issue of not being involved.
<persia> Could someone point me at any recent documentation on becoming MOTU, some of the tasks that are done at this point in the cycle these days?
<Unit193> persia: This channel tends to be a bit quiet, but have you seen the wiki on it, mailing list, or link in the topic?
<persia> Unit193: I wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing : my concern is that I did that so long ago that things have changed.  I remember many discussions about the right way to do things as I left, and it seemed that my opinion was not still consensus then.  If those procedures still work, it is relatively easy for me to chase some merges, NBS, and FTBFS this weekend.
<Unit193> Haha, well then.  Yep you win. :)
<persia> My main goal of checking in here is to make sure that submitting debdiff patches is a sensible path to regaining membership.
<Unit193> As far as I know debdiffs and LP test builds are both useful, depends on the sponsor.
 * Unit193 is not a MOTU.
<persia> Unit193: Also, thanks a lot for prodding me last week: I hadn't realised my half-and-half status, and I would have continued to not take a decision to either be involved or not be involved in Ubuntu probably for several years without your help.
<Unit193> persia: Heh, no problem at all.  Thanks for taking it well and am very glad it's gotten you off the fence.
<persia> My only complaint is how long I was in limbo: it's my own fault, and I presume you're busy, but faster prods when people change status is likely to cause more useful results: my first reaction was simply that I didn't understand how I got there or what to do.  No idea if you can fix that, or what tools help make the decision to prod, but I figure I'll share my feedback.
<Unit193> persia: In this case you were in the cloaked group but no longer in ubuntumembers.  In my defence, I was just elected last month or so, but will certainly keep that in mind.
<persia> Unit193: Yes, that is the half-life I meant.  Consider yourself entirely defended: as mentioned above, I appreciated the prod: I just wanted to give feedback in hopes of helping you prod even better in the future :)
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> I'm currently a packageset uploader, and thinking about going for MOTU this cycle.
<persia> I don't know if it still applies, but near the end of my most active time, a packageset uploader was usually a flavour developer, and tended to be more recognised than MOTU (who mostly clean up everything not owned by someone else)
<persia> My interest in MOTU is mostly because I don't have attachment to a packageset or flavour, and so would just be exchanging validation/testing for membership.
<Unit193> That fits, though MOTU gives more access since my packageset is all in universe.
<persia> "universe" was really supposed to have gone away by now.  Oh well
<rbasak> persia: getting debdiffs for FTBFS and merges into the sponsorship queue is still the right way to do things.
<rbasak> To my knowledge not much has changed from that perspective, though I've only been around since 2011.
<karstensrage> teward, yt?
<karstensrage> for testing my stuff for the backports... is it enough to make sure the sbuilds work for both the library and the module
<karstensrage> because actually testing the pam module is quite a bit of work on a chroot
<karstensrage> but its been tested extensively on both precise and trusty actual
 * karstensrage asks teward to channel the backporter mindset
 * teward was pinged
 * teward checks scrollback
<teward> karstensrage: (1) verify the packages build
<teward> (2) verify the packages install
<teward> (3) verify the packages actually *run* as one would expect
<teward> (4) make sure that any interim supported releases (if X -> T, then W also needs the backport too) have steps 1, 2, and 3 work for them
<teward> karstensrage: this is why I have a bunch of VMs
<teward> karstensrage: I actually have a "Testing" VM for each supported release - Trusty, Wily, and Xenial currently
<teward> not precise obviously but meh
<karstensrage> teward, i also do that
<teward> karstensrage: there are cases, as micahg had told me in the past, where a package that doesn't ship any executable binaries and just libraries (swig3.0 for example), just gets an install test and not a run - though I ran a test with the 'znc' source to make sure swig3.0 worked heh
<karstensrage> and for at least trusty ive done 1, 2, and 3
<teward> but as I'm not on the backports team, I can only say what I've seen in the past with my backport reqa.
<teward> reqs.
<teward> karstensrage: there may be more evil things for pam tests - that's something MOTUs might be able to comment on - I usually don't touch pam if i can avoid it ;)
<karstensrage> what do you mean evil?
<teward> karstensrage: they may want other tests
<karstensrage> well if there was something evil, that would apply to everything i assume
<karstensrage> not backports specifically
 * teward shrugs
<teward> I think pam plugins can just be a little weird is all
<persia> rbasak: thanks.  We overlapped, so if you report no real changes, then I will believe no real changes since I left.  Thank you.
<tumbleweed> ohi persia :)
<karstensrage> well id love a security review
<karstensrage> but thats outside the purview of backports
<teward> yep
<teward> oops that's to another channel sorry :)
 * teward is everywhere
<karstensrage> and i feel like the cognitive load for pam is too high to be coupled with backports or packaging
<karstensrage> i liked how xenial did it just pulling from debian/unstable no questions asked
<karstensrage> but i understand the problem
 * Unit193 watches a tumbleweed blow past.
<karstensrage> how are you supposed to trust me
<karstensrage> but also you cant scale testing every single little thing that comes along esp. with volunteers that are overworked already
<karstensrage> so between scilla and charybdis
<Logan> hi Unit193
<Unit193> Hello good sir.
<Logan> Unit193: you wouldn't happen to be an expert in bash completion scripts, right?
<Unit193> Logan: No such luck.
<Logan> damn
<Logan> was worth a shot :P
#ubuntu-motu 2016-05-06
<hggdh> persia: which membership are you trying to regain?
<persia> hggdh ~ubuntumembers, but I figure doing MOTU stuff is probably the easiest path.
<hggdh> persia: actually, all you need is to ask :-)
<hggdh> persia: on it
<persia> Heh.  I'll still try to do some dev stuff though, as I'd feel guilty otherwise :)
<hggdh> persia: you most certainly should help out
<persia> Excellent :)
<Unit193> By sponsoring uploads from the little people.  I'm a little people, hello! ;)
<persia> Unit193: For that, I am no larger than you :)
#ubuntu-motu 2016-05-07
<karstensrage> persia, any chance you do backports?
 * karstensrage is a little people too
<persia> Not in any useful sense, I expect.  My latest reliable dev environment is pre-trusty.  I may be able to answer some sorts of questions about them, but am still catching up, so my answers may be out of date.
#ubuntu-motu 2017-05-07
<ohmer> hi
#ubuntu-motu 2020-04-27
<v0lksman> can I ask a packaging question here that I can't seem to get answered in #ubuntu or #debian? It's very specific to how APT looks for changes
<Unit193> v0lksman: IIRC, if you were to push a same-version package to a repo, apt would decide to re-download it based on size or such.  I use mini-dinstall and I've done this, it works most of the time.  But this is going off a question not asked, I imagine OFTC/#debian-apt might be *the* best place.
