#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-08-30
<JFo> scott-work, were you looking for me the other day? 
<scott-work> JFo:  we were talking about the state of the -rt kernel going forward
<scott-work> i don't remember if we were looking for you directly, but i know that we mentioned you at least  :)
<JFo> ah :)
<scott-work> as i recall, basically we were discussing how the kernel will be handled for maverick
<scott-work> and that the UKT were anticipating abogani to have the -rt kernel for 2.6.35 for maverick
<JFo> right
<JFo> that is our understanding
<scott-work> JFo: i'll be back in a minute to mention a few other things, but work is calling ;)
<JFo> k
<scott-work> JFo: sorry to keep you idling, work is spastic today and we should probably talk tomorrow when i can devote a little more attention
<JFo> sounds good
<rexbron> hey anyone awake? ;)
<scott-work> hi rexbron 
<scott-work> rexbron: i'm leaving work now but i'll be home in forty minutes if you have a question, i'll be ScottL
<TheMuso> rexbron: Hey there!
<rexbron> hey TheMuso
<rexbron> jussi lost his quassel server and I've been super busy
<rexbron> how are things on the studio front
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-08-31
<rexbron> just a heads up for everyone here, I'm working getting nightly builds set up for ffmpeg, x264, blender and a few other tools set up
<persia> Using the new VCS->build system?
<rexbron> persia: yep
<persia> nifty
<rexbron> there are a few workflow issues I'm having to work around
<rexbron> mainly not be able to use the run command on launchpad
<rexbron> but the solution I came up with is to branch the upstream, add the debian dir to it then tell it to merge
<rexbron> in fact ffmpeg is building right now :)
<rexbron> basically, the docs that currently exist are kinda wrong
<rexbron> you can't just take the debian branch and merge it with the upstream
<rexbron> but the system is quite elegant imo
<rexbron> persia: even better would be to use a recipe branch instead of having to copy and paste the recipe into launchpad
<persia> File a bug requesting that.  I suspect the LP folks would agree.
<rexbron> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/627466
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 627466 in Launchpad Bazaar Integration "Use a recipe branch instead of copy paste for source package recipes" [Undecided,Opinion]
<rexbron> persia: the ffmpeg packaging contains a lot of blackmagic :/
<rexbron> three days of beating my head against it
<persia> Have you talked with siretart about it?
<rexbron> persia: the last time I contacted him about it, I didn't get a friendly responce
<rexbron> ffmpeg is one of those packages that is a nightmare
<persia> Odd.  He always struck me as a freindly guy.  Dunno then.
<rexbron> persia: probably because I was bugging him for an update :{
<rexbron> :P
<rexbron> in any case, the tools now exist to make that very painless
<persia> Yeah, that would do it :)  the black magic needs care...
<rexbron> there's actually a section in the rules file to make it hard to mix the debian ffmpeg with any thing else
<rexbron> persia: et al. If anyone is interested in testing the packages, the url is ppa:rexbron/rexbron-nightly
<rexbron> ScottL: scott-work Could you create an ubuntu studio nightly ppa?
<rexbron> TheMuso: I'm going to try and tackle ardour3 nightlies soon
<rexbron> TheMuso: well firstly, ardour has switched build systems
<rexbron> and I don't think cdbs supports waf
<rexbron> at least the same way that it does scons
<ckontros> ScottL: yo
 * TheMuso groans. Another build system change for ardour...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-01
<scott-upstairs> downloading the new beta ISO image for testing...with the updated gnome-network-admin for moderating network connections :)
<scott-upstairs> i really should send a "thank you" email to chris coulson if it works ;)
<ckontros> Really? Why hasn't someone else tried to give Chris (on the list) a clue besides me?
<scott-work> hmmm?  new email?
<ckontros> scott-work: From this morning.
<ckontros> Really? "Hire someone" He's just being defensive.
<ckontros> scott-work: I'd appreciate if you stepped up a bit here. I kinda feel like I'm twisting in the wind.
<ckontros>  scott-work: People have to know that examples of their work in a necessity. We can't just accept whatever anyone brings to the table. Even Louie needs to.
<ckontros> Well, I shouldn't say "we". It should be "you". In any event, things shouldn't take a step backwards.
<scott-work> i agree with not stepping backwards and saying something to chris, when i get home tonight i will send an email
<scott-work> ckontros: ^
<scott-work> ckontros: damn, i only saw his last email and didn't read the one before it...i clearly understand why you are upset
<ckontros> Ok. Don't be afraid to say "no". Makes some people think I'ma dick but at least there's no ambiguity and folks know where they stand.
<scott-work> hell, i'm upset now
 * ckontros shrugs.
<scott-work> it pisses me off when someone from the outside comes in with that kinda attitude without understanding the players or the situation
<ckontros> scott-work: Well, what upsets me is the attitude. I asked a simple question. Fuck who I am. It's a legitimate question if some guy who joined the list a day ago asked.
<ckontros> And dammit he's sending stuff right to me AND the list. So my reply just want to him. Dammit. Ill fix it.
<ckontros> Ok. It's there: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2010-September/002524.html
<scott-work> lol
<ckontros> @? :)
<ckontros> (specifically)
<ckontros> scott-work: And actually, when shit like this happens it's usually because English isn't their 1st language. But I assumed he's just in AU and English was fine. Maybe he's an immigrant? Or young? Or both?. Whatever. I gotta shower this grime offa me.
<scott-work> oh, just putting the hammer down on him, what i found funny was you saying that I'm the only one who said I wouldn't cut ;)
<ckontros> Well, I said you because, well, you drew it and you're the boss. :)
<ckontros> scott-work: But all this is kinda why I mentioned shooting for next release. Gives time to better define audience and thematic elements. Doing it all now, is just forced.
<ckontros> Ok. Later. PM if needed.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-02
<rlameiro> ScottL: are you there?
<holstein> hey rlameiro :)
<holstein> long time no see
<rlameiro> hey bass juggler
<rlameiro> :D
<rlameiro> how are your finger tips?
<ScottL> hi rlameiro 
<ScottL> how are you doing?
<rlameiro> vacations over
<rlameiro> ScottL: did you saw that thing on the ML?
<rlameiro> I send a reply now
<ScottL> rlameiro, about the website?
<rlameiro> the guy started to quote things
<rlameiro> then I quoted back
<rlameiro> ScottL: yeap
<rlameiro> ScottL: check it ou
<rlameiro> *out
<ScottL> rlameiro, lol, that's a good one ;)
<rlameiro> ScottL: I hate when people quote things for the sole purpose of using it for self benefit
<rlameiro> the world suffered a lot because of that
<jussi> PEOPLES!!!!!!!!!! if we dont test the beta, it wont be released!! TEST TEST TEST!!! URGENT!!! http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all
<jussi> quadrispro: ScottL TheMuso persia astraljava abogani holstein ^^
<quadrispro> jussi, emailing ubuntu italian testing team about that, I am not able to test anything now :(
<jussi> quadrispro: thanks
<scott-work> my ignorance may be slightly embarrasing but i really would like to understand this process
<scott-work> the beta ISO was made available two days (i think) and there's pressure to get the ISO testing before the end of today?
<scott-work> are we expected to test the ISO's before it's offical release?  is this just for the Beta and RC?
<scott-work> jussi, TheMuso, persia ^^^
<falktx> hi scott-work
<falktx> scott-work: i'm thinking of making an ubuntustudio liveDVD soon, just for fun
<scott-work> falktx: holstein was mentioned this as well, that would be awesome i think
<scott-work> falktx: how do you build your current ISO's?  remastersys and then host the ISO on sourceforge?
<falktx> scott-work: i'm making kxstudio from scratch now (was previously based on kubuntu), so I now know how to do it
<falktx> scott-work: scratch, really start from nothing
<scott-work> how would you make the liveDVD?  remastersys or similar?
<falktx> i can show you my little script
<scott-work> falktx: but how do you actually build the ISO?
<scott-work> falktx: yes please
<falktx> scott-work: everything is made on a chroot
<scott-work> hmmm, i think i may have read something about this on the wiki.ubuntu.com
<falktx> scott-work: first installing the basic packages, then keep adding new ones (usually just 1 or 2 metapackages that depends on everything else)
<falktx> scott-work: yes, i got some info from there too
<falktx> scott-work: then the ISO is just made using ubuntu stuff as base (artwork, grubfx, syslinux, boot, etc)
<falktx> i just modify the artwork and text to KXStudio
<falktx> I couldnt make a custom alternate dvd though...
<falktx> scott-work: the scripts - http://ppa.launchpad.net/falk-t-j/kxstudio/ubuntu/pool/main/k/kxstudio-scripts/kxstudio-scripts_0.5~ppa2.tar.gz
<falktx> scott-work: it's the 'kxstudio-create-iso' that you would want to look at
<scott-work> falktx: persia had mentioned that building a live cd would include using casper and ubuiqity, are you doing this as well
<falktx> scott-work: yes
<falktx> scott-work: you would need to theme the ubiquity though, or it will look exactly like the ubuntu installer
<falktx> scott-work: making a live ISO it's usually simple as running these commands:
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso mount <base-iso-img>
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso squash
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso custom
<falktx> (here install stuff)
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso custom_end
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso mkboot <path-to-artwork>
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso mkart <path-to-artwork>
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso md5sum
<falktx> kxstudio-create-iso iso <name>
<falktx> and it's done
<falktx> the mkboot and mkart steps are optional
<falktx> scott-work: i should get a testing ISO build next week
<falktx> scott-work: i'll let you know how it goes
<scott-work> sweet
<falktx> scott-work: it is ok to add my ppa to it?
<falktx> scott-work: maybe also calf-plugins git version
<falktx> btw, I noticed a refresh of ubuntustudio-meta package
<falktx> new apps coming?
<scott-work> falktx: we removed the -rt headers in us-meta as the -rt kernel has been removed from the archives
<falktx> scott-work: oh, which kernel do you recommend?
<scott-work> falktx: -generic
<scott-work> falktx: the studio team needs to address a few issues with the kernel team about moving forward (which i completely forgot to do yesterday! arghh)
<falktx> scott-work: i was thinking about putting 2.6.33-rt on the live dvd...
<scott-work> holstein: are you available to test the amd64 ISO images ?
<falktx> scott-work: i'll be able to test it soon, as I'll format my laptop again once I build a new testing ISO...
<falktx> scott-work: what do we need to test?
<scott-work> we basically need all the ISO images tested in the next day or so, falktx 
<scott-work> i think i can handle the i386 this evening
<falktx> scott-work: but I mean, just to check if it installs? or you need any specific testing?
<scott-work> checking the ISO is just to see if the image installs
<scott-work> i just learned from #ubuntu-release that there is a two or three day window that the iso.qa tests are intended to validate the iso images themselves
<scott-work> during the rest of the time before the next iso image release is for testing the OS, applications, settings, et al
<falktx> ok, i'll test how jack is performing in a default maverick install
<falktx> 64bit
<holstein> jussi scott-work , when do these need to be tested?
<holstein> i think i could do it sunday or monday
<scott-work> holstein: that is probably too late :(   we'll find another way
<holstein> scott-work: im going to join #ubuntu-release
<holstein> and see
<holstein> i can probably do some today
 * holstein is checking schedule :)
<holstein> yeah, im gonna make it happen today
<holstein> the amd64 's
<holstein> scott-work jussi this iso correct?
<holstein> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/current/
<scott-work> holstein: try this one:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all
<holstein> scott-work: but thats the iso right?
<holstein> the daily?
<scott-work> i'm not sure actually, presumably it should be...you could compare the md5sums
<holstein> hmmm
<holstein> comapare them with?
<holstein> im not seeing any indication at iso tracker as to what iso to test
<holstein> maybe you or jussi just dropped me a link last time or something
<holstein> i cant remember how i knew which version to get
<scott-work> holstein: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/4523
<holstein> :)
<scott-work> on the link i had given before , first click on the 64bit test, then look for the picture of an arrow pointed down over a cd (near the top)
<scott-work> it's kinda a crappy and hidden link :(
<scott-work> coloring it red or blue or fuscua (sp?) or mauve or even aubergine would be nicer
 * holstein vaguely rembering something like that now
<holstein> ANYWAYS, thanks scott-work 
<holstein> i didnt want to do all this work on the wrong ISO :0
<scott-work> holstein: LOL, yeah, that would have been teh sux
<holstein> scott-work jussi 
<holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/4529
<holstein> thats for the i386 one
<holstein> This build wasn't found on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/20100902.1/maverick-alternate-i386.iso (may no longer exists)
<scott-work> i'm seeing http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/4524 for i386 which does download
<holstein> scott-work: thanks
<scott-work> but i should be able to get the i386 this evening if you don't want to worry about and focus on the amd64
<holstein> 12:25 < cjwatson> holstein: as long as you test 20100902.1 not 20100902
<holstein> scott-work: i think thats the older one
<holstein> scott-work: its not me
<scott-work> gah...yeah and now i see more images coming from email :/
<holstein> somebody else in -release was trying to DL it
<holstein> yeah, i just wasnt in yet
<holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/4529
<holstein> that is working now
<scott-work> cool
<scott-work> holstein: but please focus on amd64 first, i can always get teh i386 this evening myself
 * holstein not doing any i386
<holstein> but maybe that guy in -release will do all the 386 stuff while your at work :)
<scott-work> that would be sweet as well :)
<scott-work> and thanks holstein , i really appreciate doing this
<persia> scott-work, There is a test phase to confirm the final ISOs.
<scott-work> persia: that is what i understand now after talking with ara and cjwatson in #ubuntu-release
<scott-work> my misunderstanding what the time table and purpose
<persia> Ah, OK.  I'm still behind on backscroll, but glad you got good answers from folks who know more details than I.
<quadrispro> hi guys!
<quadrispro> hi persia, scott-work 
<scott-work> hi quadrispro !
<quadrispro> scott-work, naspro is sitting in Debian NEW :(
<quadrispro> I've packaged naspro-core, naspro-bridges-bad and permafrost
<scott-work> i'm guessing there is a reason it's sitting there rather than moving on?
<quadrispro> yep, squeeze is frozen and there are more important things to manage for now
<scott-work> oh, i've been meaning to bug you about quadrispro 
<scott-work> when you are looking forward for new things to package, can you update the swh-plugin ?
<quadrispro> I remember that I had a look some time ago...
<quadrispro> ahh!
<quadrispro> scott-work, talking about this? http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/swh-plugins.html
<scott-work> i think the current version in the archives do not include the lv2 plugins
<scott-work> quadrispro: yes, that should be it :)
<quadrispro> so swh-plugins provides sources for LV2 stuff?
<quadrispro> if the package does, we can fix it on Ubuntu
 * quadrispro away for just 8-10 minutes
<holstein> scott-work: SO
<holstein> these are failing for me
<holstein> at the 'select and install software' step
<scott-work> argh, sorry quadrispro, i might be wrong about swh lv2 stuff...i apparently misread swh's website, it looks like we might already have the lv2 stuff in ubuntu, i'll check it out this weekend
<holstein> and thats with me *not* selecting any packages
 * holstein confirmed the md5
<quadrispro> ok
<scott-work> holstein: i ran into the same problem two nights ago with the i386
<scott-work> i had hoped that updating ubuntustudio-meta would fix that :(
<scott-work> holstein: can you report the bug and link it in the ISO tracker?
<holstein> i'l try
<holstein> let me do the last one just to be done with it
<holstein> scott-work: have you noticed a current bug report for it?
<holstein> i know there is one for when you *do* select a certain package
<scott-work> holstein: i tried it both ways the other night and got a failure for installing software in both cases so the problem isn't with the actual software selection portion
<scott-work> so i would link to the same bug myself
 * holstein will look for one
<holstein> and make a new one if not
<holstein> andd link it up :)
<scott-work> thanks again, holstein!
<holstein> no problem
<holstein> its really not a gruling as i was thining it wouldd be
<holstein> and im going to leave my studio box in a state that makes it easier to test with it in the future
<scott-work> #628981
<scott-work> bug 628981
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628981 in linux-rt (Ubuntu) "linux-headers-rt not installable breaks installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628981
<holstein> OH
<holstein> is that the culprit
<scott-work> hmmm, i had expected this to be fixed by the respin because persia and i removed the -rt headers from the ubuntustudio-meta :(
<persia> Might have been a timing thing: it may be that the task generation script in launchpad (which defines the tasks) ran at a different-than-expected time.
<scott-work> persia: should i ask cjwatson for *another* respin but mention the us-meta update ?
 * persia is checking caches
<persia> There's something ugly about the ubuntustudio tasks :(
<persia> N: Couldn't find task 'ubuntustudio-desktop'
<persia> `apt-cache show evince` doesn't show the ubuntustudio-desktop task, but "evince" clearly appears in ubuntustudio.maverick/desktop
<persia> Someone else may be able to figure out more, but I don't expect to be able to understand why it's behaving so oddly before we miss the final Beta deadline.
<holstein> :/
<persia> Indeed :(
<holstein> who can we get?
<holstein> JFo: ??
<holstein> ping me if i can help
<holstein> i reported on all the test cases for amd64
<scott-work> unfortunately, my back is up against a wall at work, maybe in about three hours i can spend more time
 * scott-work has already spent more time today than i should on non-work related stuff :(
<holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/4529/222
<holstein> that seems promising
<scott-work> holstein: thanks for interfacing with cjwatson about that :)
<scott-work> hopefully that fixes it
<holstein> scott-work: im going to be a while though
<holstein> but i'll just keek talking to cj about what im doing
<holstein> i think as long as someone is testing, we're goodd
<JFo> holstein?
<JFo> you rang?
<holstein> JFo: hey
<holstein> i think i sorted it out
<JFo> hiya
<JFo> ah, cool
<holstein> i grabbed an iso too early it seems :)
<JFo> heh
<holstein> which is an easy problem to remedy
 * persia forwards bug #622583 to the archive-admins to complete the -rt removals.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 622583 in linux-meta-rt (Ubuntu) "Remove the linux-meta-rt packages" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/622583
<holstein> we are good to go with 64bit iso tests :)
<holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/4528
<holstein> actually, we're good with all of them :)
<holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/4529
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-09-03
<persia> Nice job holstein!  Great coordination with all the teams.
<holstein> yeah, it really came together there nicely :)
<ScottL> good job holstein !  thank you much :)
<astraljava> re: bug 622583, this is very confusing. At times there is talk about including -rt under the support of UKT, and now they're being removed completely. Huh?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 622583 in linux-meta-rt (Ubuntu) "Remove the linux-meta-rt packages" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/622583
<abogani> .
<ScottL> this may seem like a bad situation but i think this may have an advantage for us
<ScottL> since we cannot control when the -rt kernel are available (meaning when a new one will come out)
<ScottL> and there is pressure even from within the studio team to keep the kernel (studio vs desktop) aligned
<ScottL> and i believe UKT hasn't really been directly support the -rt kernel, it's really been abogani
<ScottL> it makes sense to remove it from the archives
<ScottL> BUT that means we can host it in ppa without messing around with UKT
<ScottL> that means we have *complete* control over and without having to interface with someone else about it :)
<ScottL> we just have to let users know where it is
<abogani> https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa
<ScottL> like with abogani's ppa
<ScottL> touche abogani 
<abogani> :-)
 * abogani sorry for have removed -rt from official archives but there isn't a better way to handle *this* situation.
 * abogani hopes in you understanding
<abogani> *your
<abogani> My English is getting worse rapidly... :-(
<abogani> ScottL: I agreed with you expect that I have preferred have -lowlatency kernel into official archives and used as default kernel in Studio. That because it is a PREEMPT (not PREEMPT-RT) kernel but is always better than -generic.
 * ScottL was taking daughter out to school bus
<ScottL> abogani, i absolutely understand removing -rt kernel from the archives and completely support it
<ScottL> i believe that including it in the first place was probably a misstep given that we can't control when it would be released and the UKT reasonable constraint of aligning kernels between studio and desktop
<ScottL> furthermore i agree with you abogani that we should probably move towards including the -lowlatency kernel in the archives as our official kernel for both i386 and amd64
<ScottL> i've delayed (and quite honest forgotten about) it because work has been sooo busy and intense for the past couple of day, but i hope today to talk to JFo more about that later
 * ScottL is off this Friday workday :)
<abogani> ScottL, :-)
<abogani> ScottL, FYI: The -lowlatency kernel maintenance is very *trivial* and *everyone* could do it but benefit are interesting.
<ScottL> abogani, why do you say "interesting"
<abogani> ScottL: Effort is minimal (because for very low cost of -lowlatency maintenance) but improving respect -generic is really interesting (so with a very good results from a latency/jitter technical view). The -lowlatency is a full preempatble kernel after all!
<abogani> In short we can improve a lot with a minimal effort.
 * abogani think that when -lowlatency will be into official archives a lot of people will start to use if. All applications seems more fast and all system is more reactive.
<abogani> s/if/it
<ScottL> hi quadrispro 
<quadrispro> ciao ScottL !
<ScottL> abogani, i thought by "interesting" you meant it had some strange or unexpected benefits
<abogani> ScottL, ... some really good (expected) benefits.
<ScottL> :)
<ScottL> hi JFo , you got a minute ?
<JFo> ScottL, sure
<ScottL> sorry, for not getting back to you a couple of days ago
<ScottL> but what i would like to talk about is the possibility of getting the -lowlatency kernel into the archives
<ScottL> since the -rt kernel has been removed from the archives, this would be a very good kernel to have in a ubuntu studio installation by default
<JFo> no problem, let me ask the team if that is possible. 
<JFo> I think the consensus was that if there was an -rt kernel, then a -preempt one would be extra work
<abogani> JFo, I would want let you notice that -lowlatency offers good latency/jitter performance meanwhile it have a very low maintenance costs (and It could be version aligned with -generic one).
<ScottL> JFo, if the -lowlatency kernel was included in the archives would the UKT support it directly by creating and uploading?
<ScottL> or would it be community (i.e. studio and abogani ) maintained?  if this is the case it would be nice to designate a point of contact for abogani for uploading
<JFo> ScottL, I think that is a conversation that needs to happen between abogani and the team. The -rt stuff is something that is before my time here.
<JFo> as all I have been told 
<JFo> is that there would be duplication of effort to have a -rt and a -preempt
<JFo> but I will ask
<abogani> JFo, I understand. In any case please take a look of simple configuration differences between -generic and -lowlatency at http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=abogani/ubuntu-lowlatency-maverick.git;a=blob;f=debian.lowlatency/README.Debian;h=102b656fb3f26e30b3094fc91705ee5f3e0ccac8;hb=refs/heads/lowlatency
<abogani> JFo, Thanks for all.
<JFo> abogani, no problem :)
<ScottL> JFo, definite thanks for helping coordinate this :)
<JFo> ScottL, my pleasure
<JFo> I just don't know how much help I will be :)
<JFo> lots of things flying around at the moment :)
<ScottL> JFo, completely understandable, and this isn't something that needs to be resolved right at this moment
<JFo> ok
<ScottL> but i would like to find a well thought out path forward where everyone understand the expectations which functions well for our uses :)
<JFo> ScottL, maybe it is worthwhile to get you together with some of the team to discuss
<JFo> I'll see what I can do about that
<JFo> looks like the people I would ask are off today
<JFo> so may be Monday before I have anything solid
<ScottL> JFo, that would be outstanding, i'll be off (US holiday) on monday so that looks very promising :)
<JFo> same here
<JFo> but I'll still see what I can do
<JFo> so let's plan to discuss Tuesday
<ScottL> JFo, that sound good
<JFo> excellent
 * JFo pencils that in :)
<astraljava> abogani1: I see your reasoning, and understand that better now. Thanks for the explanation! :)
<abogani1> astraljava: :-)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-08-29
<abogani> morning
<astraljava> o/
<scott-work> any had a chance to test the QA image?  i hope to do so tonight
<dtchen> not really in a position to do so - my bandwidth is extremely limited
<dtchen> it's about all I can do to pull down source and fix FTBFS bugs
<dtchen> sorry :-[
<scott-work> dtchen: that's okay :)  you're doing awesome stuff that others couldn't
<ScottL> TheMuso, persia bug# 837000
<ScottL> bug #837000
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 837000 in usplash-theme-ubuntustudio (Ubuntu Oneiric) "usplash cruft removal" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837000
<ScottL> TheMuso, persia the bug suggests removing this for oneiric, i presume this means we need to remove the package from launchpad for oneiric although i haven't a clue how
<falktx_> ScottL: probably just changing the debian/* stuff
<falktx_> debian/control is the main file
<ScottL> falktx_, i asked in #ubuntu-release, they said some launchpad maintainer (i think) will remove
<ScottL> we just need to sit back and relax and take all the credit
<ScottL> although i am testing the latest daily image today
<falktx_> ah, ok
<falktx_> ScottL: how is the image now? are you able to install it?
<falktx_> damn
<falktx_> stupid network
<falktx_> ScottL: how is the image now? are you able to install it?
<ScottL> falktx_, i'm just about to install, heading upstairs now :)
<falktx_> ok
<scott-upstairs> falktx_, how does it take for you to install a ubuntu studio image in vm?
<scott-upstairs> i just started mine from booting up at around 18:45
<scott-upstairs> falktx_, how does it take you to install a ubuntu studio image in vm?
<falktx_> scott-upstairs: you set the iso and install as usual
<falktx_> set iso as the cd/dvd
<falktx_> scott-upstairs: I recommend virtualbox
<scott-upstairs> it just seems you have taken shorter time that i when installing it on iron
<scott-upstairs> bah, this image isn't working right :/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-08-30
<scott-upstairs> i used dvd-rw so it might be the disc, burning another one
<falktx_> scott-upstairs: you can use the ISO without burning if it's a vm
<scott-upstairs> falktx_, i know, but i'm not doing a vm
<falktx_> oh
<falktx_> scott-upstairs: you can also set grub2 to load an iso
<falktx_> ie, boot from it
<scott-upstairs> hmmm, interesting, didn't know that
<scott-upstairs> bah, second disc didn't work, it starts the disc but after choosing to install ubuntu studio, it hangs
<scott-upstairs> i was actually trying yesterday's image, i'll try the official QA one from today
<falktx_> I guess this is why we use vms...
<scott-upstairs> eh, i do this for two reasons
<scott-upstairs> firstly i like to test on iron, you know it works for sure then
<falktx_> yep
<scott-upstairs> also i have twenty dvd-rw discs that i'm doing nothing else with ;)
<falktx_> haha, cool
<scott-upstairs> going to reboot, brb
<scott-upstairs> haha, i'm a big geek...
<scott-upstairs> rather than find the "shut down" menu thingie, i use the reboot command in terminal
<scott-upstairs> ach, nothing is booting correctly with this image :(  even on multiple machiens
<ScottL> can someone else try the latest images and see if they install?
<falktx_> ScottL: I can try them tomorrow
<falktx_> which should be in a few hours actually...
 * falktx_ needs to sleep
<holstein> ScottL: does this look right?
<holstein> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/20110829/oneiric-alternate-i386.iso
<astraljava> unity's still there, this time brought to your by mousetweaks. meh. I really need to get my local germinate working.
<astraljava> you*
<astraljava> http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/(X)ubuntu_studio_cropped.png
<astraljava> A little something to work on, still. Dontcha think? :)
<astraljava> Anyone seen Cory lately? He hasn't responded to my email several days back, after asking for me on this channel.
<ScottL> astraljava, you can send another email, sometimes he means to responds but gets busy and forgets
<ScottL> i'll poke him in google chat which gets him on his phone usually
<ScottL> holstein, i think that's the one but QA has one also, hold on a sec...
<ScottL> holstein, this is what i've seen:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all
<ScottL> but strangely i usually get an email directoly from QA for those test but didn't this time 
<astraljava> ScottL: Did you have a look at the screen shot yet?
<ScottL> astraljava, no, but i am now
<ScottL> astraljava, is that from our image?
<ScottL> astraljava, it sounds like we need to use falktx's menu to fix this
<falktx> ScottL: what's the matter?
<ScottL> falktx,   http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/(X)ubuntu_studio_cropped.png
<ScottL> that screen shot probably shows the xfce menu as you described it to me previously
<falktx> yep
<falktx> ScottL: the audio production is still there though, right?
<ScottL> i didn't see that menu, but i'll look again
<falktx> I can't see it from the screenshot
<ScottL> falktx, if you could get the image and see about getting the menu updated that would be awesome
<ScottL> falktx, is that something you might be able to do quickly?
<falktx> ScottL: I think I can just install us-menu here
<ScottL> if we could get something for astraljava to test as well that would be helpful to check it before pushing to a new image
<falktx> ok
<falktx> brb
<astraljava> ScottL: I am presented with two sessions there. The other one being Ubuntu, which doesn't work, and the other is XFCE, which you can see in that shot.
<astraljava> So we need to look into how we can get our own session in the greeter, and modify that then.
<falktx> ScottL: just noticed the us-menu does nothing... :(
<ScottL> falktx, yes
<ScottL> astraljava, we could talk to somebody with xubuntu-dev to ask about this setting, i think they have lightdm working
<ScottL> astraljava, falktx: can the two of you work together to get something testing and pushed to launchpad to fix the menu?
<falktx> I think my patch still works, http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/us-menu_xfce.patch
<ScottL> i can talk to xubuntu-dev about the lightdm situation if no one else wants to
<falktx> ScottL: if you're willing to accept that patch, I assure you it will work
<ScottL> falktx, if astraljava is not in a position to test then maybe you should just push it to the bzr branch and we'll test it in the image
<falktx> ok
<ScottL> i just don't like the habit of pushing code without testing it, nothing against you or your work
<falktx> ScottL: let me make a testing deb
<ScottL> i'm still getting kids and me ready, i'll be in and out for another fifteen minutes then we are off
<falktx> apt-get source ubuntustudio-menu
<falktx> cd ubuntustudio-menu-0.14
<falktx> wget http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/us-menu_xfce.patch
<falktx> patch -p1 < us-menu_xfce.patch
<falktx> dch -i # add a new entry there
<falktx> debuild -rfakeroot
<falktx> cd ..
<falktx> sudo dpkg -i ubuntustudio-menu_0.*_all.deb
 * falktx tests, brb
<astraljava> I can test this later this evening for sure.
<falktx> ScottL: it still works
<falktx> ScottL: http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr024.png
<falktx> ScottL: there are still some missing apps in the us-menu, but that can be fixed later
<falktx> I think getting the menu to work is more important now
<falktx> astraljava: ^
<astraljava> falktx: Yes, that works.
<falktx> astraljava: can you push (apply the patch) ?
<astraljava> Certainly.
<falktx> ok, thanks
<astraljava> Thank you! :)
<astraljava> Oops, I'll take that back. I cannot push to that branch.
<astraljava> Only for Ubuntu branches team members.
<astraljava> Scott can, though.
<falktx> oh
<falktx> ScottL: it's up to you ;)
<astraljava> Wait, what?
<astraljava> I see, no direct uploads except only by Colin and James. I wonder if it works then that you file a bug against the package and attach the patch to the bug report? ScottL, can you recall how it was done in the past?
<holstein> well... im finally about done installing the image from yesterday ;)
<falktx> he
<charlie-tca> and today there is a new image...
<holstein> yup...
<holstein> hey, we're getting good images it seems
<holstein> thats cool
<astraljava> well, at least images from which you can install a working system. looks like crap, but works. :)
<falktx> lol
<holstein> eh... i'll have to try again later
<holstein> maybe *you* get a working system
<astraljava> holstein: How did it fail on you?
<holstein> astraljava: im not getting to a desktop
<holstein> could be on my end
<holstein> im a bit distracted and trying it virtualized
<astraljava> holstein: Not even the greeter?
<holstein> astraljava: :/
<holstein> nothing
<holstein> i'll try again later though
<falktx> I can try later tonight
<scott-work> when i tried the daily image from 28th and the QA image from yesterday i was unable to get either disk to begin the installation
<scott-work> they would boot and give me a menu
<scott-work> but when i selected to "install ubuntu studio" (or whatever the first menu entry said) it would go to a blank screen and do nothing
<scott-work> i'm not sure that is the image's fault however 
<scott-work> i would greatly appreciate anyone who can test the images
<scott-work> second QA image for amd64 from today:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/6363
<scott-work> second QA image for i386 from today:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/6364
<holstein> yeah, i will
<holstein> i wont have time today though
<holstein> i got finished a little early here and i fired up the one i installed from yesterday
<holstein> and waited on it longer
<holstein> seem like im getting a desktop
<holstein> im getting to what im assuming is light-dm
<holstein> w00t
<holstein> i have to say, its very exciting to see XFCE there
<holstein> even as strange and bare-bones as it is
<scott-work> thanks mike!  i'm glad the image is working
<scott-work> i hope that falktx and astraljava can update the menu for our submenus
<scott-work> too
<scott-work> holstein: how do you do your installs?  you burn a disc, do it in VM with the ISO image, use netbooten?
<falktx> scott-work: i'm not sure how to do it
<scott-work> falktx: do the menu?  i thought you had something that already worked
<falktx> yes, scott-work, but I don't know how to push things
<falktx> the patch applies and works fine
<scott-work> falktx: hold on a sec...
<falktx> just need to make it part of US now
 * scott-work is looking for something
<scott-work> falktx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#Seeds_Update
<scott-work> i used this work flow to update the code in the bzr branch for the seeds
<scott-work> you can follow an extremely similar methodology for updating the bzr code for the menu
<scott-work> falktx: are you familiar with bzr?
 * scott-work realizes you use git quite fluently
<falktx> yep, I like git
<scott-work> i don't know git that well actually, but i presume much is similar in overarching tasks or action between git and bzr
<scott-work> but the link above should show you much of what is required for the menu
<falktx> yep, let me try
<scott-work> but the gist would be to use bzr to pull it
<scott-work> add any files necessary
<scott-work> modify what is necessary
<scott-work> 'bzr add' if you added any files
<scott-work> i like to check with 'bzr diff'
<scott-work> then 'bzr commit' with comment and 'bzr push' as required
<scott-work> falktx: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-menu
<scott-work> that page will have the 'bzr branch' and 'bzr push' commands
<falktx> ah, I remember this, I need to login now
<falktx> should I make a new changelog entry?
<falktx> I guess anyone can easily change that, so I will
<falktx> done
<falktx> ScottL: astraljava: how to update the package in the repos now?
<astraljava> Good question, I'm not 100% on how these get updated. Let me poke around a bit.
<scott-work> sorry, the work internet crapped out
<scott-work> falktx: hopefully you got all my last messages
<falktx> scott-work: yes, I already did the changes, and added a new changelog entry
<astraljava> I'd imagine the new debs to be rolled the next time the buildd/whatever notices there's an update on that. scott-work, got a better knowledge on ubuntustudio-menu branch to become a new .deb?
<scott-work> astraljava: i'm not sure i understand, are you asking me if _i_ have a better understanding of the -menu branch?
<scott-work> astraljava: when you ask about the .deb file do you mean when building it locally by using falktx 's patch or you mean for the buildd system within launchpad?
<astraljava> I'm not fully up-to-date on how branches become packages in LP. falktx just pushed a commit to ubuntustudio-menu branch, when will it become a new package in the repositories?
<scott-work> astraljava: AH!  you know, i'm not exactly sure either
<scott-work> perhaps TheMuso or persia can answer that, if not we can ask in #ubuntu-motu
<astraljava> Right, I'm on it. Thanks"
<astraljava> " == !
<scott-work> hehe
<holstein> scott-work: i actually try to do a mix
<holstein> this one was just right in virtualbox from the downloaded iso
<scott-work> holstein: a "mix"?  i'm not sure i understand
<scott-work> but it sounds like the iso worked for you in vm    that's good :)
<scott-work> i'll rsync the new images and try burning with a fresh disc and then test again
<astraljava> Why rsync? Isn't zsync more effective?
<holstein> scott-work: like i try to do different things each time
<holstein> from an actual burn
<holstein> or from USB
<holstein> whatever
<holstein> in VM...
<scott-work> astraljava: yeah, sorry, meant zsync, it's what i thought in my head but i typed rsync
<scott-work> holstein: ah, a mix meaning different types of installs...gotcha :)
<astraljava> Okay, we're supposed to have fresh images tomorrow morning, unless I f***ed up desktop in seeds. But we still need to work on lightdm greeter theme (my bad!), and theming overall. The current session looks fugly.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu looks bad too, lightdm is changing too fast to keep up with it
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Yeah, but we don't even have a customized theme so far.
<charlie-tca> We aren't putting that in for this release. We will try again for the LTS instead
<astraljava> Oh okay. Is it _that_ difficult nowadays?
<charlie-tca> seems to be, at least for madnick these days. Doesn't help he is short of time, too though
<astraljava> I understand that.t
<astraljava> -t
 * astraljava is getting in the know re: image spinning
<astraljava> Damn, I feel like we're gonna go with something real for the next cycle
<charlie-tca> heh, it all takes time to learn
<astraljava> Yeah, indeed.
<falktx> hm, just saw a  new meta, what about menus?
<astraljava> I dunno yet, I just asked on -devel about how that stuff rolls. I'll let you know when I do.
<falktx> ok
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-08-31
<ScottL> astraljava, did you ask about the -menu package updating and building a new .deb file in #ubuntu-motu?
 * ScottL doesn't want to ask a redundant question there
<astraljava> Yes I did, and I was told to file a FFe bug about it.
<astraljava> Actually, asked on -devel.
<astraljava> \m/ No unity on the current image! Of course, I haven't tested if it's installable, yet...
<astraljava> Good news is that so far, we're only about 82Mb bigger than the last LTS. So a little bit relief for not getting all too bloaty. Granted, we
<astraljava> we're not final yet, but that can go either way.
<astraljava> There might be some cruft still.
<falktx> damn I forgot to download it yesterday
<falktx> it's impossible now at work :(
<falktx> astraljava: did the menu package got up?
<astraljava> falktx: Not yet. I need to file an FFe bug about it.
<scott-work> i tested the QA image last night and it installed correctly :)
<scott-work> apparently the computer with which I was testing was not reading the new discs/images correctly :(
<scott-work> i burnt yesterday's QA image and one machine didn't work, but i put the same disc into another machine and it install :/
<scott-work> but it looks like we have yet _another_ image email today
<astraljava> I'm hearing a lot of weird errors like that lately, or so it seems. Think it's happening more these days than before, but it might be only because I'm more active now than ever before.
<astraljava> Yeah we got a new image for today as well. And it's got NO unity! w00T!
<astraljava> I'll test the QA image soon, too.
<scott-work> well, i found it surprising that i pulled out an older disc (ubuntu studio 11.04 i think) and tested it on the machine that didn't want to boot with the oneiric QA/daily images
<scott-work> and it worked!
<scott-work> *shrug* i don't know
<scott-work> can i ask people who did test to make sure and report the test on the QA website?
<scott-work> i can provide the links again if it will help
<scott-work> remember, if we don't get this images test we might not have image to release Oo
<astraljava> Yep, I'll be reporting soon, but people please, we need more!
<scott-work> email sent to -devel list as well
<charlie-tca> asked in QA meeting too
<astraljava> I asked on user channel as well, so far only one goal.
<charlie-tca> I will do some after Xubuntu, it might take a while, though. If I get the images synced, I will run one test on each arch to make sure they work
<charlie-tca> testing ubuntustudio 64 with encrypted lvm install
<scott-work> charlie-tca:  have you automated the testing process?
<charlie-tca> nope
<charlie-tca> I still have to figure that part out
<charlie-tca> I seem to be a having a bit of difficulty understanding how to make the process automated
<scott-work> ah, okay, i had read a few things where it seemed like various people had automated this
<scott-work> just a general note: i made a new blog post and copied it to the -devel mailing list and g+ as well
<scott-work> i hope to develop more web presence again for ubuntu studio
<charlie-tca> hm, long time blue background only during this install. Is my video card too old?
<charlie-tca> very old nvidia MX-4000t
<charlie-tca> pp[d
<charlie-tca> ooops
<charlie-tca> mesages in the logs
<charlie-tca> failed to execute '/lib/udev/watershed' 'watershed sh -c '/sbin/lvm/vgscan; /sbin/lvm vgchange -a y'': No such file or directory
<charlie-tca> got a segfault to go with it
<charlie-tca> will burn another dvd and try again
<scott-work> charlie-tca: was this with the ubuntu studio image?
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> 64bit encrypted lvm
<charlie-tca> burning a new dvd on a different computer, will attempt the install again to verify it is not my dvd.
<charlie-tca> seems like a bad thing, too
<charlie-tca> Trying again, different dvd
<charlie-tca> scott-work: blaming it on my disk
<scott-work> charlie-tca: i had a few those as well i think :/
<scott-work> but i still have one machine that will not boot _any_ of the new images
<charlie-tca> This attempt is working better
<charlie-tca> oh, I had one of those machines
<charlie-tca> probably still in the closet
<charlie-tca> Makes working on these development releases much harder
<scott-work> yeah, but this machine would boot a 10.04 ubuntu studio dvd :/
<scott-work> strange, but oh well
<charlie-tca> I had tested quite a few releases on mine when it decided not to test new onew
<charlie-tca> s /onew/ones
<charlie-tca> and it still works with older images
<charlie-tca> big red failure screen - oh-oh
<charlie-tca> scott-work: they need to kick the server and cut new images for you
<charlie-tca> It is almost the same errors I got with Xubuntu Alternate images
<charlie-tca> the build is bad
<charlie-tca> no error in log
<charlie-tca> here is the log from the installation:
<charlie-tca> http://paste.ubuntu.com/679164/
<astraljava> scott-work: What is that machine, that boots not one of our images? Proc, memory, chipsets, graphics, audio card?
<charlie-tca> I pasted the log in #ubuntu-release
<astraljava> Uh oh.
<astraljava> That's nothing we can touch, anyhoo.
 * astraljava takes the dog for a walk
<scott-work> astraljava: it's a gateway machine that i'm not terribly familiar with, but it's a i386 machine
<astraljava> scott-work: Would be good to dig out the details, might be something that's not overly tested in the circles.
<scott-work> astraljava: when i get home i can do that
<charlie-tca> They are respinning the images; let's hope it works
<scott-work> hmmph, i'm feeling overwhelmed at work :(
 * holstein gives scott-work some coffee :)
<scott-work> lol
<scott-work> when we were rebuilding the department i did all the scheduling for both engineers and detailers for a few years
<scott-work> then we hired an engineer (i'm not) who would supervise the entire department
<scott-work> i (gratefully and gracefully) slid out of that position and focused on trainging and quality of our output
<scott-work> he scheduled and went to meetings (yuck!)
<scott-work> he is out this week on vacation so i'm inundated with fabrication and scheduling
<scott-work> ....and meetings (yuck! again)
<scott-work> i tend to be a very direct person who likes to solve problems rather than talk about them
<scott-work> so i don't suffer meetings very well, especially the people who like to repeat the same explanation over and over
<scott-work> i'm like, "shut up!  i already know what we need to do!"
<scott-work> well, not really, but that's what i'm thinking in me noggin'
<rlameiro> evening
<falktx> hm, fresh images
<falktx> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/current/
<falktx> rlameiro: oh, btw, I have network at home now
<rlameiro> falktx, super :D
<falktx> libunity5_4.0.0-0ubuntu4_i386.deb is there, but I guess that's unavoidable
<scott-work> falktx: are you still interested in maybe fixing the lightdm background?
<scott-work> i have some information that might help
<falktx> scott-work: background?
<scott-work> theme or whatever it is
<scott-work> something better than that fekking pink background
<holstein> scott-work: you dont likey da pink :)
<falktx> scott-work: hm, I had submitted a theme some days ago...
<scott-work> falktx: you did?  really?
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I pushed a respin since it failed on Trying to install 64bit encrypted lvm
<scott-work> falktx: against the main lightdm package?
<falktx> scott-work: a US lightdm theme
<scott-work> did we have one before?  or did you create a new package within -settings or other package?
<falktx> the theme works, but we need to set -settings to apply it
<falktx> scott-work: it's a new brand package, a theme to lightdm for US
 * falktx sometimes feels ignored
 * holstein gives falk a fist-bump
<falktx> holstein: scott-work: kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme_0.1.tar.gz
<falktx> oops
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme_0.1.tar.gz
<falktx> I showed this before
<falktx> screenshot -> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr023.png
<holstein> falktx: cool
<holstein> that'll do it :)
<scott-work> falktx: i remember this but i thought we were going to make our own package
<falktx> scott-work: well, use that one
<falktx> and modify as you need
<scott-work> although i'm not sure would be the way to do it (i.e. make our own)
<falktx> it's already working...
<holstein> yeah, just put it in there, however charlie-tca suggests
<falktx> scott-work: we only need to set the default lightdm greeter to gtk, everything else is handled
<holstein> you guys need soemthing like that for xubuntu right?
<charlie-tca> heheheh
<scott-work> charlie-tca: did you see falktx 's link?  you might want to pass that on to mr_pouit or madnick
<falktx> scott-work: probably xubuntu does it too, so we just need to borrow some code and it's all set
<holstein> charlie-tca: or are you not using lightdm?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit said we are waiting until the next cycle to touch lightdm
<falktx> remember
<falktx> we only need to set the default lightdm greeter to gtk, everything else is handled
<holstein> charlie-tca: right...
<charlie-tca> We worked too hard just to get it usable
<falktx> charlie-tca: this is just a theme
<charlie-tca> yeah, I know
<charlie-tca> but when Ubuntu did "just a theme", it broke lightdm bad
<charlie-tca> Took us a month to get it to work again
<falktx> charlie-tca: afaik, this is a separate package, not affiliated with lightdm
<charlie-tca> bad taste and all that, I guess
<charlie-tca> You can talk to mr_pouit and madnick about it. I don't care either way
<falktx> charlie-tca: it's just like another ubuntustudio-* package, won't hurt ubuntu
<charlie-tca> madnick is the person working on it for Xubuntu
<falktx> well, we first have to push it into the repos
<scott-work> falktx: so if i took this package and built it at home on my oneiric machine i should be able to install it, yes?
<falktx> scott-work: yes
<charlie-tca> I am not concerned with hurting Ubuntu. They will hurt all of us soon enough
<holstein> scott-work: i can test too if needed
<scott-work> falktx: i have an oneiric working currently, i will try to test it tonight
<scott-work> if it installs well then i will see about getting it into the repos
<holstein> i should say, i have the means to test.. assuming i can figure out how
<falktx> scott-work: as I said, just need to change lightdm greeter (a conf file) to gtk, something like s/unity/gtk/
<falktx> scott-work: it can be easily done in *-settings
<falktx> holstein: just grab the package and do "debuild -rfakeroot" to generate the deb
<falktx> holstein: at the end, the package will complain that you're not the author, but that's ok
<charlie-tca> scott-work: the re-spin worked; the image is installing this time
<falktx> ;)
<holstein> falktx: id need to debuild on oneiric though right?
 * falktx is still downloading
<falktx> holstein: I don't think so
<falktx> holstein: nope, it has no dependencies at all, you're ok to go
<holstein> falktx: i'll give it a shot
<falktx> you'll need lightdm though
<falktx> but at least you get to build the package
<holstein> THB, i dont know what debuild -rfakeroot meabs
<holstein> means*
<holstein> ill have to take some time and RTFM later
<falktx> debuild == build deb
<holstein> on the oneiric box
<falktx>  -rfakeroot  == build as fakeroot user
<falktx> can I be honest here...?
<holstein> falktx: please do :)
<falktx> well, I've seen my stuff working, both menus and this
<falktx> but it seems like this is a matter of trust
<falktx> I feel like you guys still don't trust me...
<scott-work> charlie-tca: that is good information :)
<scott-work> falktx: it's not that we don't trust you
<scott-work> i'll mention two things
<scott-work> 1. i'm not blindly pushing a change for something that i haven't seen fix something
<scott-work> 2. if you have something that works you should have rights to push it to the bzr branch as well
<scott-work> for #1 that's for anyone
<scott-work> i'm not as good of a packager, much less a coder, as you falktx
<scott-work> if i was like luke emmet and knew crap loads and done this for years i might do different
<scott-work> but if i'm responsible i want to see the fix before i will push
<falktx> I understand
<scott-work> this includes my own stuff and i test it myself but also try to get others to test as well
<scott-work> falktx: i am honest, i WANT you to do stuff and get it into ubuntu studio
 * holstein +1
<falktx> thanks
<scott-work> i ask that you either push it to the bzr branch yourself or i will do it, but i will want to test it myself before i do ;)
<falktx> ok
<scott-work> another way to look at it is that it's not that i don't trust you, rather i don't trust me
<falktx> lol, that sounds bad
<scott-work> if i had luke's or emmet's experience i probably would have a different threshold for what i would accept or not
<scott-work> but since i don't i feel that i need to see the problem and then see the fix
<falktx> scott-work: so, I'm ok to push things to bzr?
<scott-work> you are part of the team, yeah
<scott-work> all that i ask is that you check your changes after they are pushed and fix it if things go wrong ;)
<scott-work> well, you don't have to check them yourselves, it could be me or astraljava or holstein or whomever
<falktx> yep
<scott-work> i just want to make sure any changes that happen from anyone fix stuff instead of break them ;)
<falktx> I don't usually show you broken stuff though
<scott-work> lols
<scott-work> no you don't
<falktx> ppas are different
<falktx> I know my ppas have some small issues, but that's not part of US
<falktx> if I want to push something to US, I usually am more responsible and check everything before showing it
<scott-work> i probably need to update my testing methods to use VM as well
 * falktx tries to get menus forward
<falktx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-menu/+bug/838434
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 838434 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "ubuntustudio-menu does not work on XFCE" [Undecided,New]
<charlie-tca> Is that tied into not having a studio session yet?
<charlie-tca> Since xfce session is starting, the menu may not be able to override the xfce menu 
<falktx> charlie-tca: I've tested it myself
<falktx> it works fine in oneiric
<falktx> charlie-tca: http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr024.png
<charlie-tca> neat!
<falktx> charlie-tca: note that, using my ppas, I have lots of more apps than in standard ubuntu though
<charlie-tca> That's what I expected to see in my install
<falktx> these new apps were not added to the menu, as scott demanded
<charlie-tca> right
<falktx> charlie-tca: what can we do to push this up?
<charlie-tca> I don't know
<falktx> create a debdiff?
<charlie-tca> I rely on mr_pouit for that kind of stuff
<falktx> damn
<charlie-tca> Should be just an upload to fix the bug, I think
<charlie-tca> where is astraljava ? He seems to understand a lot of that stuff
<charlie-tca> persia knows how to do it, too
 * falktx added 1 more comment
<charlie-tca> I been trying for three years to learn how to make things happen without saying "mr_pouit, can you..."
<falktx> charlie-tca: I did once for lucid zynadd package (from revu), but I don't remember the process now
<falktx> and for US it should be different
<charlie-tca> yeah, should be something like push the upload through, but if in beta freeze, you got to get the archive admin to approve it, I think
<charlie-tca> If there is a patch pilot on in #ubuntu-devel, they might be able to do it, too
<falktx> charlie-tca: holstein: can you "this bug affects me" there?
<falktx> so it gets as confirmed
<charlie-tca> I can confirm it, can't I?
<holstein> falktx: did i miss a link for it?
<falktx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-menu/+bug/838434
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 838434 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "ubuntustudio-menu does not work on XFCE" [Undecided,New]
 * holstein found it
<holstein> :)
<falktx> thanks
<falktx> holstein: now it's incomplete... what's missing?
<charlie-tca> That's because I hit the wrong key
<holstein> hehe
<charlie-tca> It is now triaged, high
<charlie-tca> and it is going to get tagged "iso-testing" too
<charlie-tca> all of which helps get the fix in 
<falktx> ah, nice
<falktx> oh, high importance!
<charlie-tca> I only understand little bits of stuff, but I know you need all that to get the fix pushed in
<falktx> charlie-tca: do you know how to create a new branch in the US code?
<falktx> for lightdm theme
<charlie-tca> no, I have no idea
<charlie-tca> I can't even figure out how to find such things
<falktx> I don't think I can do it (permissions), but I'm not sure how I would do it in the first place
<charlie-tca> Did I tell you, I don't know how to do most of the developer side of things?
<charlie-tca> Maybe micahg can. He is very helpful when asked if he has time
 * falktx is still downloading the image
<charlie-tca> I am just a poor, braindead user...
<astraljava> Confirmed the bug, but am a little bit puzzled by the branch.
<astraljava> Turned it into a FFe bug, and subscribed ubuntu-release on it, but what was the revision number you committed, falktx?
<falktx> astraljava: FFe bug?
<falktx> oh
<astraljava> It needs to be a Feature Freeze exception bug now.
<falktx> astraljava: rev 56, as the bug says
<falktx> astraljava: this is a fix, so it should be ok...
<astraljava> Sorry, yeah there it is.
 * falktx will be expecting an ubuntu mail about the new package ;)
<charlie-tca> Okay, I have to take a break; will check which images still need to be run in a couple of hours
<astraljava> Okay, well, IMHO that bug should now contain enough information for it to be uploaded as a new package.
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Thanks a bunch!
<astraljava> And sorry I haven't had time for Xubuntu, until tomorrow.
<astraljava> Hope that's enough for QA purposes.
<falktx> I'm still confused
<falktx> astraljava: what you just did, were I able to do it?
<charlie-tca> That's no problem. Help falktx get the bug fix figured out now
<charlie-tca> falktx needs to know how to make that stuff happen
<astraljava> You were, it just needed to be re-phrased as a FFe bug, and ubuntu-release needed to be subscribed to it.
<astraljava> That's all.
<falktx> astraljava: you do you make it a FFe bug? tag?
<astraljava> If they agree to it, it will get uploaded. If not, they will state why not.
<astraljava> Then we will make modifications accordingly.
<astraljava> Just mention that in the subject, that should do it.
<falktx> what is 'FFe' btw?
<astraljava> Feature Freeze exception
<falktx> yep
<falktx> got it
<astraljava> Thanks a lot for filing it!
<falktx> now we one to take care of lightdm
 * falktx fills a bug report
<falktx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-menu/+bug/838446
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 838446 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "ubuntustudio has no lightdm theme" [Undecided,New]
<falktx> astraljava: holstein: set as "affects me" please
<charlie-tca> actually, 32bit is pink, 64bit is blue
<falktx> really?
<charlie-tca> so, you want that one triaged too?
<charlie-tca> really.
<falktx> charlie-tca: this does not have a branch, but if it's possible, yes
<astraljava> Yep. That's true.
<falktx> astraljava: is it recent? I never noticed it...
<astraljava> They're really pushing people towards the 64-bit now? :D
<holstein> falktx: got it :)
 * falktx is trying to make UbuntuStudio better
<charlie-tca> done
<astraljava> falktx: ...and you're doing a terrific job at that! :D
<charlie-tca> well, boys, anyway
<charlie-tca> girls probably like the pink
<falktx> ahah, yeah
<astraljava> Hehe. :)
<falktx> basically ubuntu says - "32bit is for pussies!"
<falktx> lol
<astraljava> :D
<falktx> Scott Kitterman commented on the bug, so we got their attention
 * falktx wonders if his name will remain on the changelog
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-01
<falktx_> download complete!
<falktx_> woot
<falktx> video meta install fails :(
<falktx> some ffmpeg and other lib errors
<falktx> ubuntu's fault there, not US though
<falktx> normal desktop fails too
<falktx> we're depending on tango-icon-theme-common, which apparently doesn't exist anymore?
<holstein> ScottL: we need the images built?
<holstein> they are asking in -release...
<holstein> not sure if thats what we need
<ScottL> holstein, i'm not sure because charlie-tca already asked about the images to be rebuilt and i thought there were already
<holstein> ScottL: i just say skaet asking
<holstein> and wanted to be sure
<ScottL> reading backscroll in -release now
<ScottL> thanks holstein , skaet will have the images rebuilt now :)
<holstein> :)
<ScottL> falktx__, thanks for doing all that work to fix things earlier, i'm glad to see you and astraljava moving and shaking things up :)
<falktx__> well, ScottL, I know you're a bit busy, so I went through with it
<falktx__> oh, I wasn't able to install the latest image
<falktx__> we're depending on tango-icon-theme-common, which apparently doesn't exist anymore?
<falktx__> ScottL: ^
<ScottL> falktx__, really?  that's interesting (that's it doesn't exist)
<ScottL> i had recently updated the language packs shipped because _many_ of them don't existing anymore as well
<ScottL> sounds like we have other areas that need clean up as well
<falktx__> yep
<falktx__> ScottL: we should investigate a bit though, cause tango is used by us icon theme
<ScottL> falktx__, i found this though:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tango-icon-theme-common/0.7-0ubuntu1
<ScottL> it looks like it is built for oneiric, just the source appears to be from feisty perhaps
<falktx__> ScottL: you're right
<falktx__> but somehow tango-icon-theme-common was marked as "not installable"
<ScottL> the repos are flaky right now :/
<falktx__> hm, it's installed on my system...
<falktx__> ScottL: that is bad for testing images
<ScottL> yes it is
<falktx__> I don't remember having a single 11.10 US good image
<falktx__> :(
<falktx__> but now it's ubuntu's fault
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> that tango-icon-theme was one of the fails earlier, when I asked for the re-spin it got fixed
<ScottL> aye...we didn't due to much to make the transition to xfce so shame on us then, but man!, the repos are making it real hard to do anything now
<holstein> w0w
<holstein> i feel like we might make it :)
<ScottL> holstein, if the repos get sorted and things built correctly ;)
<falktx__> I believe US can get it right for 11.10
<charlie-tca> by the way, this latest re-spin is for the parted errors when installing on mac systems. I don't think it is in the image yet.
<charlie-tca> There is an advantage to Ubuntustudio doing the re-spin; that menu should go into it too
<ScottL> i'm unsure how to take this:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-branding/+bug/838513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 838513 in ubuntu-branding "Ubuntu Studio uses pre-2010 Ubuntu Titling font" [Undecided,New]
<ScottL> apparently someone filed a bug against my "head shot" (which is a ubuntu studio logo i made) for the planet ubuntu page
<holstein> mark it
<holstein> mark it 8 dude
<holstein> hey... i can mark it :)
<holstein> ScottL: i'll comment that the logo is your peronal logo
<holstein> ScottL: unless you are already doing that
<ScottL> holstein, nah, i'm still scratching my head...go ahead :)
<holstein> done
<charlie-tca> new images are posted
 * ScottL was doing the last dog walking for tonight
<ScottL> holstein, i suppose it would be different perhaps if that planet ubuntu post was labeled as "ubuntu studio" instead of "scott lavender" ;)
<holstein> ScottL: yeah... its an odd bug to *not* come and ask you about
<ScottL> hehe, i appreciate that he is filing bugs though :-)
<holstein> yeah... seems like a nice enough guy
<holstein> prolly just on some theme team
<holstein> yeah... ubuntu-branding
<charlie-tca> astraljava: note comment on Bug 838434
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 838434 in ubuntustudio-menu (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Upload new ubuntustudio-menu revision (was: ubuntustudio-menu does not work on XFCE)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838434
<charlie-tca> Good to go now!
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Yea, noticed. Weird, cause I was notified a little differently elsewhere, but suits me fine.
<astraljava> All amd64 tests done, will do i386 during the evening.
<falktx> astraljava: are the images installable now?
<scott-work> astraljava: awesome!
<scott-work> i've downloaded the i386 image and can start testing this afternoon
<astraljava> falktx: The amd64 one is for me, anyway. I could finish all the cases required in the tracker.
<astraljava> Will just now start the i386 tests.
<falktx> nice
<astraljava> Okay, all tests done successfully.
<astraljava> We're good to go.
<scott-work> astraljava: did falktk's menu update make it into the image?
<astraljava> Not yet.
<scott-work> ah, okay
<scott-work> i'm guessing we will be able to test this in a few days with a daily image
<scott-work> i wonder if we need to update the meta packages lately as well, i don't know when the last time we update
<astraljava> I don't think so, there's no new packages or anything.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-02
<holstein> GTRsdk: o/
<holstein> scott-upstairs, meet GTRsdk 
<holstein> i grabbed him? from *-offtopic
<scott-upstairs> hi GTRsdk  :)
<GTRsdk> hey scott-upstairs 
<holstein> GTRsdk: we were looking at icon themes not too long agon
<holstein> ago*
<scott-upstairs> oh cool, looking at making a new one maybe?
<holstein> anyways... GTRsdk was talking about wanting a unit-2d ubuntustudio theme
<holstein> and i was saying we were getting around to that at some point
<holstein> more open-ness with the metas
<holstein> being able to have other DE themes, and add the packages to whatever
<holstein> down the road a bit of course...
<holstein> anyways... GTRsdk is learning about packaging
<holstein> scott-upstairs is the team lead GTRsdk 
<GTRsdk> okay
<scott-upstairs> that's sounds good but i don't know much about how themes will work across DE's, falktx probably does however
<scott-upstairs> GTRsdk, usually i'm downstairs as ScottL
<holstein> yup, falktx__ already made some for kxstudio for everyhing
<scott-upstairs> GTRsdk, but it's cool learning packaging, we always do need people who can help backport too ;)
<falktx__> the key is qtcurve
<falktx__> qtcurve supports qt3/kde3, qt4/kde4 and gtk2
<falktx__> no gtk3 support yet though
<holstein> nice
<holstein> falktx__: planned?
<falktx__> the author did gtk3.0 support, but 3.1 changed API and broke the engine
<falktx__> now 3.2 will break API again, so he's pissed
<holstein> i bet
<falktx__> "**NOTE:** The Gtk3 release has been removed, as the Gtk theme API has changed!"
<scott-upstairs> lol, that sucks
<falktx__> sad, but true
<scott-upstairs> falktx__, thanks for getting the menu and lightdm updates done and uploaded
<scott-upstairs> you rock man!
<falktx__> sure
<falktx__> what's left to do?
<falktx__> I'll check later
<falktx__> 3am and need to sleep 
<falktx__> cya
<scott-upstairs> falktx__, i'm not srue
<scott-upstairs> good night :)
<GTRsdk> I think Unity 2D can be modified to have the Ubuntu Studio theme
<holstein> GTRsdk: im sure you can fold the current art in
<scott-upstairs> GTRsdk, the current theme may not exist for the next release, we have plans to change it for xfce
<scott-upstairs> it doesn't mean that the first interation won't be an exact (or as close as possible) replica
<scott-upstairs> but we were kinda looking at making a bit of a change....a walkabout as the australians say
<GTRsdk> scott-upstairs: are there plans to make the package names different?
<GTRsdk> such as ubuntustudio-unity-2d?
<scott-upstairs> GTRsdk, we could certainly make a package named as such
<holstein> ubuntustudio-desktop-unity-2d
<scott-upstairs> within the ubuntustudio-* packaging ecosphere we certainly have quite a bit of liberty and/or latitude
<holstein> or whatever...
<GTRsdk> I think I found one of the files needed to change the top bar
<scott-upstairs> GTRsdk, i need to go downstairs and spend time with the family, but hang around here more tonight/today or later on another day
<scott-upstairs> we'd like to talk more
<GTRsdk> okay
<astraljava> Thanks everyone for making beta1 happen!
<astraljava> Over the weekend, I'll be starting to work on our branding. Thanks to falktx, it won't be a big problem, just that I haven't meddled with lightdm before, there might be interesting scenarios.
<falktx> ;)
<shnatsel> hi everyone
<shnatsel> I'm the guy from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2011-June/003391.html :)
<shnatsel> Last time I've been here we decided that those packages should be uploaded to Debian repositories and synced from there to Ubuntu Studio. Did anyone undertake it, and if yes, what's the status of this process?
<falktx> shnatsel: you should talk to the debian multimedia guys
<falktx> we can't just put ppa packages into the official repos
<shnatsel> I think I'm incompatible with Debian processes... last time I tried to report a bug, I gave up after 10 minutes of figuring out how to do it. I can hardly imagine the amount of time that would be wasted on me trying to push a package... Maybe someone more familiar with Debian processes could do it?
<shnatsel> I'm afraid I totally suck at paperwork :(
<astraljava> shnatsel: Hi. It was me who you talked to more in detail. But unfortunately I haven't had time so far for creating said packages conforming to Debian policies.
<shnatsel> astraljava: so, my packages don't meet Debian policies?
<astraljava> Other things ate up my time during the summer, and for the past few weeks I've been swamped with getting our images to become installable.
<astraljava> shnatsel: I dunno, I just seemed to recall that's why you didn't submit them directly.
<astraljava> Like I said,l 
<astraljava> sorry
<astraljava> I haven't had time to look into them at all.
<shnatsel> yeah, I perfectly understand, I've just got rid of a similar situation
<falktx> shnatsel: have you tried revu?
<falktx> I got one package into ubuntu once that way
<shnatsel> falktx: what's revu?
<falktx> shnatsel: the official way of normal people trying to get stuff into ubuntu
<falktx> the other way around is to get it into debian, which ubuntu will bring automatically
<shnatsel> I'd better get it into Debian, of course
<astraljava> Yep, that's the one I would recommend these days.
<astraljava> Their multimedia team is excellent, I'm just joining it as soon as I'm free from the release pressure.
<astraljava> That will of course bring the average down a bit, but *shrug*
<astraljava> :)
<holstein> hehe
<shnatsel> looks like by the time the packages get into Debian, GIMP 2.8 will be released and they'll become bitrotten automatically.
<astraljava> Oh?
<shnatsel> of course I hope it won't be like that
<astraljava> Why do you think they're that version-dependent?
<falktx> shnatsel: gimp will take too long, you have at least 1 year for this
<shnatsel> astraljava: well, GIMP Painter is a somewhat abandoned patch to GIMP 2.6, and the creator of GIMP Paint Studio hasn't figured out how to port it to 2.7.x by now.
<falktx> shnatsel: btw, can I include your packages in the KXStudio PPAs?
<falktx> that is always done quickly ;)
<astraljava> shnatsel: Ahh... that sucks.
<shnatsel> falktx: IDK what is KXStudio, but they're under GNU GPL, so I can't prohibit it even if I want :)
<shnatsel> astraljava: and besides, Paint Studio is somewhat useless without the Painter patch.
<falktx> shnatsel: http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net
<falktx> and thanks
<astraljava> shnatsel: You should have denied that! falktx IS OUR ENEMY! He's a competitor!!!!
<astraljava> *ahem*
<falktx> astraljava: lol, don't say that
<astraljava> Did I type that out loud?
<astraljava> Yeah, not really. :)
<craigs63> heh
<falktx> "KXStudio itself is not a linux distro; instead, users can think of it as an extension pack for other distros (currently ArchLinux and Ubuntu)"
<falktx> astraljava: ^
<astraljava> Yeah I know, just kidding here. :)
<astraljava> Besides, you're doing an awesome job directly here.
<falktx> astraljava: KXStudio actually helps UbuntuStudio, has it brings many people to Ubuntu
<falktx> hehe, thanks
<shnatsel> astraljava: I'll make you one more competitor if Ubuntu Studio development won't speed up a few times :) And it will have Pantheon desktop, MWAHAHA!!!1
<astraljava> Might as well pack up the stuff and leave, then.
<astraljava> *frown*
<falktx> already too much distros
<shnatsel> falktx: nooo, not again
<astraljava> But you're dead on about the speed. We'd need more falktxs and holsteins and whatnot to get this thing really going again.
<falktx> TangoStudio and DreamStudio are good/bad ones I guess
<falktx> shnatsel: what?
<falktx> TangoStudio devs don't like launchpad...
<falktx> not sure why DreamStudio exists though
<shnatsel> falktx: I think this is the most popular phrase in the Linux world, second only to Vim/EMACS wars
<shnatsel> "already too much distros"
<astraljava> Heheh. :) It's a double-edged blade, really.
<astraljava> I'm all for the freedom of choice.
<astraljava> But we're losing contributors.
<shnatsel> yep, there are over 40 linux music players by now, and there's no player to rule them all.
<astraljava> Still, I'm leaning against the former. People want to get creative, and they really should.
<shnatsel> guys can't unite and make an uber player, everybody starts their own
<falktx> I don't like it at all
<holstein> eh... i wish i were a code contributor :/
<astraljava> Doesn't make you any less of a contributor.
<shnatsel> falktx: please notify me when the packages are copied, so I can notify the former team of my distro and cheer them up a bit
<falktx> shnatsel: hm, your postinst has:
<falktx> cd /etc/skel/.gimp-2.6/tool-options/
<falktx> but I don't have that folder
<falktx> (and I have gimp installed)
<astraljava> holstein: I write enough code on my dayjob anyway, there's not very many lines of my code in ubuntu either. I wanna do different things as a hobby.
<holstein> astraljava: luckily this doesnt cross too much over into my job
<shnatsel> falktx: I'm pretty sure it creates one or something like that. I tested it on an insane number of configurations.
<shnatsel> falktx: wait, it creates this folder
<falktx> ah I see it
<shnatsel> falktx: that's why it's in postinst
<shnatsel> not preinst
<falktx> shnatsel: I though gimp was supposed to have that
<falktx> shnatsel: all seems ok to me, I'll upload
<shnatsel> falktx: no, not at all. my packages are independent from GIMP folders. They create them on the fly with mkdir -p if needed (AFAIR)
<shnatsel> the /etc/skel thing is needed for users created after installation of GPS to have it too
<falktx> yes, I got that
<shnatsel> actually, those are ugly workarounds of GIMP faults
<shnatsel> GIMP has shared folders for everything but tool presets
<falktx> shnatsel: you should not use 1.5-natty1 version though
<falktx> use something like: 1.5-1~natty1
<falktx> so that, once ubuntu gets the package, it will replace yours
<shnatsel> falktx: I thought it's lower than 1.5-0ubuntu1
<falktx> nope
<shnatsel> grrr
<falktx> shnatsel: letters are higher than numbers
<falktx> 1a2 > 192
<shnatsel> sorry on this one
<falktx> no prob
 * falktx is uploading gimp-studio
<falktx> yay, amarok-kde3 working!
<shnatsel> falktx: what about MyPaint updates and OpenRaster plugins and thumbnainers?
<falktx> shnatsel: soon soon, let me finish this one first
<falktx> the internet here sucks, so I have to be gentle
<shnatsel> falktx: I just wanted to know if you're going to upload them at all or not. I'm not really concerned about the time it takes, if it's less than a week.
<shnatsel> :)
<falktx> shnatsel: it's probably all today, if they are not too big
<falktx> this is a nice addition to the PPAs, thanks
<falktx> I guess this could result in a little advertising too
<shnatsel> yeah, it's always great to advertise those things
<falktx> shnatsel: remember that the ppas support lucid to oneiric, so it's 4x times the upload
<falktx> holstein: if everything is ok, you just got the mail about these packages
<shnatsel> falktx: you can simply copy the packages using LP's web UI, no reuploading needed
<holstein> falktx: not yet... but i bet its coming
<falktx> shnatsel: nah, I prefer rebuild
<shnatsel> holstein: I did that many times, works fine
<falktx> shnatsel: it makes sure no hard-dependencies come from the old ppa
<shnatsel> falktx: it can even copy source packages and rebuild them automatically
<shnatsel> in the new PPA
<falktx> well, let me point some reasons I like rebuild more
<falktx> - version in the package (1.5-0ubuntu1~lucid1 for this one)
<falktx> (maverick, natty and oneiric tags are auto-managed by my scripts)
<falktx> - makes sure it got all build depencies right
<falktx> - makes the ppa clean, so I can check whoever did the upload (copy packages doesn't show who copied them)
<falktx> - I get a mail about new upload, but not copies
<falktx> - it also contributes to my launchpad karma
<falktx> shnatsel: you can easily be part of the kx team and help if you want
<falktx> ok, all uploaded
<falktx> now I need to do some real work in here, we'll check the other packages later today
<falktx> shnatsel: do you have mypaint packaged?
<falktx> oh, already in the repos, nice
<falktx> backport can work then
<shnatsel> falktx: yes, but it's outdated. There's an official PPA, though.
<falktx> shnatsel: should I really care about gimp-painter ?
 * falktx is trusting shnatsel and uploading packages 'as-is'
<shnatsel> falktx: well, I didn't package it, but it's praised by the Sintel team (it was combined with Paint Studio there)
<shnatsel> falktx: also, I didn't notice any bugs or regressions in it
<falktx> you convinced with "Sintel" ;)
<falktx> I think I have some custom gimp build somewhere... I'll postpone gimp for now
<falktx> gimp-openraster is up
<shnatsel> awsum!
<shnatsel> falktx: I'm not totally sure that OpenRaster thumbnailers work well.
<shnatsel> falktx: so you'd better test them before uploading
<falktx> shnatsel: why doesn't ora-thumbnailer has kde support?
<falktx> I see gnome and xfce, but no kde... :(
<shnatsel> falktx: because I have some kind of broken dependencies on my machine or something. The KDE thing doesn't compile.
<shnatsel> falktx: it should be fairly easy to package, though. dk_make will probably do everything you need.
<shnatsel> falktx: oh wait, there were some tricks to do about KDE thumbnailer... I'll forward you a mail about it if you give me your address
<falktx> shnatsel: can you prepare the package with kde version? I'll do tests and fixing
<shnatsel> falktx: I guess dh_make will do exactly the same thing I'd do
<falktx> then I'll try to get kde working later
<falktx> shnatsel: what will I need?
<shnatsel> falktx: here's the working command for compiling the KDE part, it's different from the one in README:
<shnatsel> sudo apt-get install kdelibs5-dev cmake dolphin
<shnatsel> cd /ora-thumbnailers/kde
<shnatsel> cmake . -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/
<shnatsel> make
<shnatsel> sudo make install
<falktx> shnatsel: I'll try it later
<falktx> shnatsel: kde4 fixed
<shnatsel> falktx: awesome!
<shnatsel> falktx: where can I copy it? :)
<falktx> shnatsel: let me upload it
<falktx> shnatsel: done -> https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=ora&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=
<falktx> 5 hours to build :(
<shnatsel> falktx: are you sure that this thing works?
<falktx> shnatsel: it builds
<falktx> didn't tested the real thumbnailer though
<falktx> shnatsel: do you have some small raster images? or a link to some?
<shnatsel> falktx: could you drop me the resulting .deb's ?
<shnatsel> I'll make one now
<falktx> shnatsel: I'm running oneiric, maybe it's not compatible...
<falktx> 64bit
<shnatsel> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5279564/helloworld.ora
<shnatsel> this is thumbnailed correctly on my GNOME machine
<falktx> shnatsel: raster option appear in dolhin
<falktx> shnatsel: hand-written hello world? with white background?
<shnatsel> yep
<falktx> nice! it's working then
<shnatsel> awesome!
<shnatsel> I'll merge your changes then :) My PPA is recipe-powered.
<falktx> need to go into arch, brb
<astraljava> I read that as church.
<GTRsdk|busy> I have made some changes to the appearance of all of the icons in Unity 2d.
<scott-work> hi GTRsdk|busy , that's cool, do you have any screenshots?
<GTRsdk|busy> I'll take some now
<GTRsdk|busy> scott-work: I want to first find a way to get the panel changed to the color Ubuntu Studio was in Natty.
<holstein> GTRsdk|busy: the folk in #xubuntu-devel have been *crazy* helpful
<shnatsel> meh. the only usable unity is www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/06/gnome-manu-style-unity-dash-project-revived-adds-a-ppa/ IMHO.
<holstein> GTRsdk|busy: actually, i was thinking you were theme-ing XFCE... sorry
<holstein> the xubuntu-devel folk are still awesome though :)
<GTRsdk|busy> hopefully I can get ubuntustudio-unity-2d put into a bazaar branch tomorrow
<holstein> GTRsdk|busy: :)
<shnatsel> GTRsdk|busy: I hope it will have a usable menu?
<GTRsdk|busy> A usable menu? I am using 4.40
<GTRsdk|busy> for the ubuntustudio-unity-2d
<GTRsdk|busy> I am using an older version, and am upgrading to 4.40
<shnatsel> GTRsdk|busy: www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/06/gnome-manu-style-unity-dash-project-revived-adds-a-ppa/
<shnatsel> GTRsdk|busy: well, you don't think that the dash is actually usable, do you?
<GTRsdk|busy> shnatsel: I think the new unity is more usablt
<GTRsdk|busy> *usable
<shnatsel> GTRsdk|busy: yeah, it's been getting better and better until the beta freeze
<GTRsdk|busy> I made the icons look like strips of movie film, so when I view the launcher, there is this strip of movie film
<shnatsel> buttons hidden by default for windows and *window* buttons shown by default for Dash... that's idiotic.
<astraljava> dash? Really? Have people officially run out of application names?
<shnatsel> astraljava: it's a piece of Unity AFAIR
<shnatsel> astraljava: there also was an elementary experiment called Dash, it was an app
<astraljava> I understand that. dash is also a shell.
<shnatsel> astraljava: hmm?
<astraljava> $ ln -s /bin/sh
<astraljava> Unless you've changed it.
<astraljava> ln -l, of course
<astraljava> grr
<shnatsel> ah!
<astraljava> ls -l
<astraljava> :D
<shnatsel> right.
<shnatsel> I found it earlier, and forgot again. Shame on me XD
<shnatsel> We've been investigating FISH in elementary, so I've investigated all that stuff
<astraljava> Ok.
<GTRsdk|busy> scott-work: I think the newer version will work better
<scott-work> good
<GTRsdk> scott-work: is the default wallpaper ubuntustudio-olis.jpg ?
<scott-work> GTRsdk: i don't think so, is that the one with a bunch of white sextagons or octagons creating a room ?
<scott-work> or is that the one with a bunch of out of focused lights?
<GTRsdk> the white sexagons
<GTRsdk> scott-work: then is ubuntustudio-gutsy.png (the out of focus lights) the default wallpaper?
<astraljava> Are we talking theming/branding for oneiric now?
<scott-work> astraljava: i believe so
<scott-work> GTRsdk: the white sexagons is the currently wallpaper for natty
<scott-work> we haven't really decided what will be for oneiric, therefore by default it will probably be the same
<astraljava> Unless we can come up with something as cool as the sexagons, I'd say let's keep it at least until 12.04
<craigs63> I hope sexagons is a translation difference  :-)
<astraljava> -+
<astraljava> Sorry, dog went wild.
<astraljava> craigs63: I am just following scott-work's example. :) No idea if that's correct or not.
<astraljava> I have faith in him, though. :)
<craigs63> I just volunteered here to pick nits, anyway...
<astraljava> That's the best hobby, anyhoo!
<craigs63> six sides = hexagon 
<astraljava> Hahah!
<craigs63> Don't try to make english make sense
<paultag> sixagon, duh
<astraljava> Oh well, I like the first one better. It's sexier.
<shnatsel> astraljava: I've been typing exactly the same
<craigs63> It looks like Superman's fortress sort of.
<astraljava> What, sexagon? I thought he was an asexual being.
<craigs63> the white picture with the crystal shape things
<astraljava> And yeah I know he had a "girlfriend", one he never probably "touched."
<craigs63> Yeah read "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex"
<astraljava> Yeah I know. I'm just trying to exercise my (granted, poor) sense of humour.
<paultag> 16:32 < craigs63> Yeah read "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex"
<paultag> Ha!!!!
<paultag> BRB, for real
<astraljava> paultag: I've been waiting for that.
<astraljava> We've missed ya.
<scott-work> yeah, i screw up that :P
<scott-work> seven sides are sectagons i believe
<scott-work> but i was sure they polygons were either 6 or 8 sided
<scott-work> or is it sextagons are 7 sided
<scott-work> yes, i think it is sextagons, not sectagons
<astraljava> How many vertices in a sextagon?
<astraljava> There is no polygon with this name. 
<scott-work> but irrelevant since the ones in the image are either six or eight
<scott-work> i believe it is seven sided
<astraljava> I don't care, it says so in Teh Interwebz!!
<scott-work> eh, google says its hectagon
<scott-work> *shrug* oh well
<craigs63> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptagon
<craigs63> I didn't mean to cause a war!
<astraljava> Oh well, after the beta1 struggles, it was getting a bit too silent around here. :)
<GTRsdk> scott-work: is there going to be a LiveDVD installer for Oneiric?
<scott-work> GTRsdk: i don't think this will happen for oneiric, perhaps for oneiric + 1
<astraljava> For sure. We're already in beta1, and we haven't tested it once.
<astraljava> We have enough work to do on the installer-only image.
<paultag> astraljava: I've missed ya'll too :)
<shnatsel> I can make the LiveDVD.
<paultag> astraljava: sadly, I'm so swamped, I hardly have time to process email :'(
<astraljava> paultag: I hear ya. I'm as sad not having time for syn :(
<shnatsel> It's damn simple if everything is done right, and if we bundle all the apps in it.
<shnatsel> It's a bit more complex if we install only the parts the user chooses.
<paultag> astraljava: it's ok, we're mostly frozenish to do package work
<shnatsel> but edubuntu devs have been through that already
<astraljava> shnatsel: If you have time for it, that's great! I doubt we'll get it in for oneiric anymore, though, but working towards the LTS is very much appreciated and welcomed!
<shnatsel> I have too much plans for elementary lts and stuff. And I'm trying to finally organize my own life a bit, to stop being a hacking machine. But yes, I think I'll find time to do it.
<astraljava> No worries. We will welcome it, for sure, but it's not _needed_.
<scott-work> shnatsel: yes, that would be awesome!
<scott-work> shnatsel: or at least share notes and mentor sometime to do it 
<shnatsel> do you have workflow guidelines, do you use launchpad blueprints, etc?
<shnatsel> it helps us to organize the workflow a lot in elementary project
<scott-work> shnatsel: not really, i've thought about doing it but it takes time that i don't want to invest right now
<scott-work> i would like tough
<scott-work> though
<shnatsel> scott-work: I have already made one for elementary: elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-whatâs-our-sleeves
<shnatsel> scott-work: it should be easy to adapt it for ubuntu studio
<astraljava> scott-work: See, those are the reasons why we should probably have at least bi-weekly meetings for the 12.04 devel cycle.
<astraljava> We need to attack immediately when that cycle begins.
<astraljava> Focus on the right things right from the beginning, and then work towards implementation when the plans are ready.
<astraljava> I'm getting pumped up already. :D
<astraljava> But I guess we need to ship 11.10 first.
<shnatsel> we already have a plenty of blueprints for 12.04 cycle in elementary
<shnatsel> that's OK IMHO
<scott-work> what's okay shnatsel ?
<shnatsel> to have blueprints targeted at future releases
<scott-work> ah, gotcha
<shnatsel> investigated before even shipping the current release
<shnatsel> googling and dreaming is not THAT distracting
<shnatsel> but it's inspiring
<astraljava> Sure. And we'd need to have people in UDS for that as well. Unfortunately, I couldn't do that this time around.
<shnatsel> Something tells me that ubuntu studio needs a new logo.
<shnatsel> For the LTS.
<shnatsel> I guess you should ask thorwil to take care of it... http://thorwil.wordpress.com/category/logos/ (he's very busy right now though)
<scott-work> shnatsel: i've talked to him before and he didn't see very receptive to helping ubuntu studio....
<shnatsel> I see
<scott-work> but then again one of the team wasn't a little critical towards him
<scott-work> so i can't blame thorwil for that
<scott-work> wait
<scott-work> s/wasn't/was
<scott-work> one of the team WAS a little critical
<scott-work> i would love to have a new logo, something quite a bit different since ubuntu studio is changing quite a bit, especially over the last year or so
<GTRsdk> scott-work: are the default applications going to stay the same?
<shnatsel> Is MyPaint included in the artistic set?
<scott-work> GTRsdk:  the application set will not change for oneiric from the beta1 image, although there may be some changes for oneiric+1
<scott-work> shnatsel: not currently, we were basing the application set based on work flows
<shnatsel> scott-work: MyPaint is a perfect sketching app
<scott-work> shnatsel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows
<scott-work> shnatsel: i have been trying to avoid including applications "just because" (not to slag mypaint or your suggestions)
<shnatsel> hmm, great doc
<scott-work> but i want to make sure it really supports our users
<shnatsel> MyPaint and Alchemy can be included in almost any artistic workflow
<scott-work> too often i hear we should include an application and when pressed they can't quite explain what the purpose of the applications is in regards to a user
<shnatsel> Alchemy is designed for artistic brainstorming. It can be used in making almost anything.
<shnatsel> MyPaint is designed for sketching the basic idea or real media imitation
<shnatsel> so whatever you do, it's a good idea to sketch in it first
<scott-work> shnatsel: sorry, was interrupted by real work 
<shnatsel> scott-work: I didn't notice that
<scott-work> i'm not oppossed to incorporating additional applications and i would greatly love to develop a robust graphical and video application set
<scott-work> i have played with alchemy myself but it seemed to be not developed anymore, do you know if it is in the ubuntu repositories?
<shnatsel> I think it's not, or it's outdated. And it seems to be actively developed.
<scott-work> that was a silly question, heh, if i played wiht it then it must have been in the repos :/
<scott-work> oh no, i remember, i watched a video of a famour artist creating stuff, was a very long video but very good and interesting
<scott-work> not sure it's in the repos then
<scott-work> i cannot find alchemy in the repos but there is a bug to get it into debian though
<scott-work> shnatsel: would it be possible for you to create a workflow for using mypaint?  i would appreciate that
<shnatsel> MyPaint is in the repos (probably outdated, but still in there)
<shnatsel> scott-work: the "sketching images" workflow is insane.
<shnatsel> scott-work: sketching in Inkscape is hardly sane for an artist
<shnatsel> scott-work: So, s/Inkscape/MyPaint/g in that one
<scott-work> heh, i don't remember "sketching images" being in there
<shnatsel> scott-work: it's the first one
<shnatsel> scott-work: design a brand - same thing, sketching in MyPaint or on paper is essential
<shnatsel> afk bbiab
<scott-work> ah yes, i remember that one, doctormo helped with those
<shnatsel> <personal opinion> doctormo rocks </personal opinion>
<shnatsel> back
<shnatsel> I'm talking with the dev of that ubiquity modules thing in #edubuntu right now
<shnatsel> where should I write down the docs?
<scott-work> shnatsel: whatever medium is best for you
<scott-work> wiki page is fine, or type a word doc and sent it to me or the ubuntustudio-devel mailing list
<shnatsel> scott-work: google docs?
<scott-work> sure :)
<shnatsel> OK
<scott-work> shnatsel: if we could get a live dvd that would be exceptionally awesome and other superlatives
<shnatsel> gtg
<shnatsel> I'll be back
 * astraljava wonders why it is so important for studio to have a livedvd. Everything we provide can be tested on vanilla live by installing the metas. We're already spread really thin as it is.
<GTRSDK|busy> astraljava: livedvds are nice
<astraljava> GTRSDK|busy: As are unicorns.
<astraljava> Is there a real rationale?
<GTRSDK|busy> astraljava: there is not livedvd available yet
<astraljava> It doesn't take that long to install the metapackages after booting up to the vanilla, as opposed to loading up over half of the dvd.
<astraljava> GTRSDK|busy: I know. For a reason.
<GTRSDK|busy> true, but if someone is running from USB, the load time can be decent
<astraljava> GTRSDK|busy: I'm asking, is there a serious reason for a studio livedvd, for realz?!
<GTRSDK|busy> astraljava: for testing studio
<GTRSDK|busy> astraljava: similar why there is a livecd for most of the other derivatives, and a livedvd
<astraljava> Okay. The only reason I can think of for testing the stuff is the kernel.
<astraljava> Is that enough to justify a whole new image?
<astraljava> -generic isn't _that_ far off from -lowlatency, anymore.
<astraljava> Nobody's going to do serious business out of a livedvd anyhoo,
<GTRSDK|busy> that would justify enough for me to build a DVD image
<astraljava> so really, _just_ for testing?
<GTRSDK|busy> I am not sure how to build one
<GTRSDK|busy> astraljava: and GUI install
<astraljava> GTRSDK|busy: How many installs have you done from both, separately?
<ScottL> astraljava, mainly PR for those who might switch and new to linux
<astraljava> ScottL: Would Studio be their first linux experience outside of the World of Point 'n' Click?
<astraljava> Please note, I'm not totally against it. I'm against having to spread the already thin contributor force that we have between two images.
<astraljava> They don't come cheap, you know.
<astraljava> ubiquity is a whole 'nother beast.
<astraljava> If we actually got new resources for that image alone, I'd be thrilled.
<GTRSDK|busy> under 2GB would be nice
<astraljava> So far, we are under that.
<astraljava> I don't think expanding to the live version takes us over the 'limit'.
<astraljava> ubiquity takes around a few tens of megabytes, AFAIK.
<GTRSDK|busy> daily-live probably would
<ScottL> GTRSDK|busy, yes, we've actually cut back slightly over the last few releases due to trying to follow the 'work flows' approach
<ScottL> but i would really like to even minimize what we currently have, but i don't think that will happen
<astraljava> GTRSDK|busy: Are the dependencies that big, actually?
<ScottL> but we definitely want to watch out that we don't grow much mroe
<astraljava> ubuntu daily-live is currently 695M, while the daily is 674M.
<GTRSDK|busy> astraljava: having two images
<astraljava> Why would it bloat _that_ much more for us?
<astraljava> GTRSDK|busy: having two images ____ ?
<ScottL> we are still pulling in some kde apps but not as bad as before though
<GTRSDK|busy> astraljava: having two images created daily or per each release would take more space
<GTRSDK|busy> astraljava: server space
<ScottL> astraljava, i say PR for the live disc because i think there are people who would take it and show it off at cons if we had a live media
<astraljava> GTRSDK|busy: Server space is irrelevant. Canonical hosts our images. We need not to think about that.
<ScottL> i've been told that a few times
<ScottL> hi falktx 
<GTRSDK|busy> astraljava: true
<astraljava> ScottL: Okay, if we wanna seriously pursue that route, then fine. Just be aware of the load it takes on our productivity regarding the overall product.
<astraljava> ScottL: Currently, there are three developers who consistently tend the creation of the end product. Two more that care about theming and documentation.
<astraljava> None of which can spare more than mere hours daily.
<astraljava> Mere hours being less than three.
<astraljava> Seriously, that's not enough for two images.
<astraljava> Unless we got more horsepower, we can't scale.
<astraljava> Again, if I seem to be coming off too strong re: livedvd, it's only due to reflecting it against the manpower at hand at the moment.
<astraljava> If we got more active contributors, we could divide the responsibilities.
<GTRSDK|busy> astraljava: I should find out how to build an iso
<astraljava> But we have to keep in mind, that it's not just about creating the beast. It's also about supporting it. Especially for LTS releases. That takes 3 years. Are _you_ seriously ready to commit to that?
<astraljava> GTRSDK|busy: If you really want to, talk to falktx. He's got it going for fxstudio.
<astraljava> or is it fkstudio, I forget.
<astraljava> He's willing to get it going for Studio as well.
<craigs63> I thought it was KXStudio ?
<astraljava> Problem is, he's got his "derivative" (in lack of a better term) because he feels the standard ubuntu way is too rigid.
<astraljava> It's a little hard to build on such foundation.
<astraljava> craigs63: Thanks, that's it.
<ScottL> sorry, been talking with family about going to dinner
<ScottL> astraljava, falktx was committing to creating a live image that he would create, it would be a "community within a community" supported
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-03
<GTRSDK|busy> falktx_: I was told you were the person to talk to about iso building?
<falktx_> GTRSDK|busy: ISO?
<GTRSDK|busy> falktx_: livedvd
<falktx_> I can build a custom ISO, not official ones
<falktx_> yes
<GTRSDK|busy> falktx_: do you base then off of an official ISO?
<falktx_> GTRSDK|busy: no, build from scratch
<falktx_> sorry I was busy
<falktx_> GTRSDK|busy: what do you need?
<GTRSDK|busy> falktx_: I am trying to figure out how to build a LiveDVD
<falktx_> GTRSDK|busy: I have a script for it
<falktx_> ScottL: do you still have the notes I wrote for you about the ISO script?
<GTRSDK|busy> I am currently trying to build a LiveDVD by editing files and adding some
<GTRSDK|busy> I need to set up ubiquity
<falktx_> the ubuntu docs have good info about that
<falktx_> my script is based on that
<GTRSDK|busy> because there is no ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntustudio , correct?
<ScottL> falktx_, i do have the notes
<ScottL> astraljava, you are probably right about a livedvd and trying to maintain double the number of images
<ScottL> astraljava, perhaps we should do a "community" maintaind livedvd that we create manually after canonical release
<ScottL> we could host it on sourcrforge or something
<falktx_> ScottL: I can host it
<falktx_> sourceforge kxstudio though, if that's ok
<falktx_> not sure...
<ScottL> at this point we need to create it first ;) then we can wory about where it's hosted
<falktx_> yep
<shnatsel> Hey everybody
<shnatsel> I've explored the edubuntu ubiquity patch
<shnatsel> it will work for us, it's very easy to adapt
<GTRSDK|busy> shnatsel: what is the patch about?
<shnatsel> GTRSDK|busy: installing only the components selected by the user during installation
<shnatsel> GTRsdk: usual ubiquity doesn't have it while debian-installer has
<shnatsel> the way debian-installer implements it has always driven me nuts, though
<shnatsel> the keyboard controls are absolutely non-intuitive and I always skip it instead of selecting a seed
<shnatsel> then have to re-launch installation and think about the keys
<GTRsdk> there should be instructions on how to use debian-installer built in with it
<shnatsel> GTRsdk: if the UI needs explanation, it has to be fixed. (c) elementary philosophy, and also rule of UI design
<shnatsel> apart of that, you have a very common mistake in your seed packages
<shnatsel> everything is marked as "depends"
<shnatsel> instead of "recommends"
<GTRsdk> shnatsel: which packages?
<shnatsel> which is terrible because if you uninstall an app from the seed, you lose the metapackage, and then you lose all the other packages from the seed on an autoremove
<shnatsel> GTRsdk: seeds, the ones parsed by Germinate
<shnatsel> GTRsdk: http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/oneiric/ubuntustudio-meta
<GTRsdk> so I have a mistake in a seed package?
<shnatsel> GTRsdk: you have a mistake in the guidelines for creating them, I'd say
<shnatsel> GTRsdk: apps should be marked as "recommends", not "depends"
<GTRsdk> shnatsel: so which package?
<shnatsel> ubuntustudio-meta source package
<GTRsdk> I never packaged that one
<GTRsdk> shnatsel: I don't have upload rights
<shnatsel> GTRsdk: hmm, I didn't say it's personally your fault, did I?
<shnatsel> nvm
<GTRsdk> shnatsel: I'm not even in the ubuntustudio-dev team yet
<shnatsel> OK, the project has this error
<shnatsel> I gotta report a bug I guess
<shnatsel> !report ubuntustudio
<shnatsel> hmm
<shnatsel> yeah, no rabbitbot here, sorry
<GTRsdk> okay
<shnatsel> reported as bug 840144
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 840144 in Ubuntu Studio "Use recommends instead of depends in seeds" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840144
<shnatsel> Here's the doc about custom ubiquity from edubuntu: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JinRIl_hYWJA4L0COe9r5uAX4ZgmfqyIYmC5Tdhfn3o/edit
<astraljava> I'm not too sure about that bug. For instance, -desktop kinda needs to depend on certain packages, that construct the whole desktop experience. IMHO, that's an invalid.
<astraljava> Is there an auto-removal for Synaptic?
<astraljava> If you use it on apt-get, you're kinda expected to know what you're doing anyway.
<shnatsel> ScottL: ubuntu studio doesn't use Launchpad blueprints at the moment. Maybe you should change that? AFAIK it's the best specification tracker available, and we definitely need one to get something done (I sent a link to my writeup on that a while ago)
<shnatsel> ScottL: I need to coordinate some changes to the seed architecture but you have nowhere to write that down
<shnatsel> it sounds like a series of related bugs and blueprints to me atm
<scott-work> morning...i noticed a lot was written while getting ready to come to work, i'll read logs in a bit
<scott-work> shnatsel: you mention blueprints and launchpad and a link in a write up that you sent a while ago....how long ago and to whom did you send the email?  i don't recall seeing anything at the moment
<scott-work> TheMuso: could you offer any opinion on bug 840144 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 840144 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Use recommends instead of depends in seeds" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840144
<shnatsel> scott-work: actually, I pasted the link here. elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-whatâs-our-sleeves
<scott-work> okay, yes, i saw that one :)
<shnatsel> scott-work: bug 840144 it's a requirement for the selective app installation in Ubiquity, too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 840144 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Use recommends instead of depends in seeds" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840144
<scott-work> okay, when i looked at it yesterday it looked just like a journal but as i read more at a particular entry i can see where you are talking about lauchpad blueprints
<scott-work> to be very direct, i had considered using blueprints before (and milestones) but i really didn't understand it completely so i have shied away from it
<scott-work> i would very much like to understand them however
<scott-work> i will read more from your link when i have more time (i.e. not at work)  ;)
<scott-work> shnatsel: is there a particular journal entry that you would i recommend reading first or foremost?
<shnatsel> scott-work: this is the only writeup about LP blueprints I'm aware about.
<shnatsel> scott-work: I tried to explain why blueprints are needed, what problem do they solve and how to use them
<scott-work> so far this is the best i've read that starts explaining more about blueprints: http://elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-what%E2%80%99s-our-sleeves
<scott-work> i will definitely read more tonight
<shnatsel> scott-work: yes, that's my article :)
<scott-work> oh, oh, oh...this is funny
<scott-work> shnatsel: the link you gave me is slightly broken :)
<scott-work> it takes me to the main journal page
<scott-work> hahaha
<shnatsel> http://elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-what%E2%80%99s-our-sleeves
<shnatsel> ?
<shnatsel> hmm... :(
<scott-work> elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-whatÂs-our-sleeves
<scott-work> between "what" and "s" i see a funny square box
<shnatsel> copy-pasting from url bar in firefox 7 seems to be glitchy
<scott-work> the link you _just_ posted has "%E2%80%99" between "what" and "s"
<scott-work> i read the titles and decided to read a little more on one that i thought would be right
<scott-work> happenstance that i picked the one you wanted me to read
<shnatsel> sorry, my bad
<shnatsel> I'm glad you found the right article anyway :)
<scott-work> i think it's kinda funny
<scott-work> okay, i will take a break at work and read this article during the day
<scott-work> yes, thank you very much, this will be much help!
<scott-work> i did something similar for packaging for backports using PPA's
<scott-work> http://fossmusicproject.blogspot.com/
<scott-work> it started as a record for me to help me remember how i did stuff but then morphed into a way for others to use and i expand on what a ppa is and how it can be used
<scott-work> astraljava: did you see my comment about livedvd?
<scott-work> shnatsel: do you work with any other projects other than elemtary?
<shnatsel> scott-work: well, I also made http://shnatsel.blogspot.com/2011/07/weve-just-revolutionized-alpha-testing.html and it needs work
<shnatsel> also http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/tag/shnatsel
<shnatsel> or maybe http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?s=shnatsel
<scott-work> i will say that i like the clean look of the windows for the midoria screenshot under the discover page on the elementary os website
<scott-work> i would like to push the ubuntu studio windows dressings to such a clean look
<shnatsel> scott-work: Midori is also damn fast and, unlike other browsers, it integrates with the DE well
<scott-work> i think that xfce can look very clean but yet elegant too, perhaps even a "cutting edge" look 
<scott-work> i just don't know much about changing themes or window dressings
<shnatsel> scott-work: there is an elementary theme port to XFCE
<scott-work> hmmm, i might have to look into that then :)
<shnatsel> scott-work: to be completely honest, I think you'd better migrate to Pantheon than to XFCE.
<scott-work> i haven't heard of pantheon before
<shnatsel> scott-work: it's elementary's desktop environment, to be released with the next OS version
<shnatsel> scott-work: it also has a modular DE-independent shell, Pantheon Shell that beats GNOME Shell and Unity
<shnatsel> it's built to be lightweight and fast, and also has very good design that's traditional to elementary project
<shnatsel> IMHO XFCE is good, but some of its components are hardly usable in real life; it's better to fix GNOME than to switch to XFCE.
<shnatsel> e.g. Mousepad vs Gedit
<shnatsel> Mousepad is almost as useful as Windoze Notepad
<shnatsel> xfconf is better than gconf but dconf/GSettings from GNOME3 beat it
<shnatsel> dconf is damn fast; it's dconf that makes such a difference in login time between Lucid and Maverick
<shnatsel> etc etc etc
<shnatsel> so in elementary project we take GNOME and replace everything we don't like with custom apps
<shnatsel> There was an article about it in the journal... http://elementaryos.org/journal/meet-me-pantheon
<shnatsel> Mac has a reputation of being an OS for designers and creative people, because it's well-designed. I'm sure a Linux distro for creative people also should have the best design available.
<shnatsel> which is IMO elementary project. Unity is just ridiculous and GNOME is still like it's from early 2000s
<shnatsel> There was a screencast of Pantheon shell somewhere...
<shnatsel> Outdated, but still: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/05/video-slingshot-plank-wingpanel-beatbox.html
<shnatsel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXaigfAc4vM
<scott-work> shnatsel: one thing to keep in mind is that ubuntu studio cannot ship anything in the image that is not in the official repositories (i.e. cannot use PPA)
<shnatsel> ATM this is a prototype
 * scott-work is working on reading backscroll
<shnatsel> scott-work: yes, so we'll have to push all elementary apps to ubuntu repos on time; I have no idea how that can be done, because we mostly follow Ubuntu release schedule.
<shnatsel> IMHO using only official repos slows ubuntu studio down so much...
<shnatsel> I might make elementary studio someday, with blackjack and PPAs
<scott-work> hehe, that would be pretty cool
<scott-work> i an aware that xfce isn't quite a light as it used to be, especially compared to gnome and kde which used to be much heavier than xfce at one time
<scott-work> i believe that gap has narrowed in the last year or so
<scott-work> i really think that we need to redefine and articulate our vision of ubuntu studio (i know i keep talking about this)
<shnatsel> I guess don't really care about being lightweight because multimedia PCs are powerful anyway
<scott-work> and having a fast light destktop is important (i believe)
<scott-work> shnatsel: if that is the audience we want to serve (i.e. those with fast,  powerful computers)
<scott-work> historically i believe we have tried to accomodate those with slower comptuers as well
<scott-work> this doesn't make it proper though
<shnatsel> scott-work: IMHO one of the mistakes you made is shipping custom artwork, custom sound theme, etc. After a fail of my artistic distro I strongly believe in division of labour and avoiding scattering resources.
<shnatsel> scott-work: I haven't been there to see the project's history, though
<scott-work> shnatsel: wrt "customer artwork, custom sound": are you suggesting that we focus solely on packaging and less on branding perhaps?
<scott-work> i'm not being critical, i just want to understand your intent :)
<shnatsel> scott-work: yes, exactly
<scott-work> i ask also because i feel we really do need to figure out who we are, whom we server, and how we will server them
<shnatsel> scott-work: my distro failed exactly for the same reason - nobody knew what exactly we were going to make
<scott-work> shnatsel: i just realized something....
<scott-work> but first, i have felt that the wallpaper on the desktop should be very, very plain
<scott-work> for a multimedia comptuer
<scott-work> it should be nuetral
<scott-work> it shouldn't distract
<scott-work> it shouldn't be busy
<scott-work> it should just....be
<scott-work> yeah, i know that sounds Zen
<scott-work> i just realized that this may be why i am preferential to xfce
<shnatsel> scott-work: or, the application presenting the wallpaper should present it in a way that makes any wallpaper be like that ;)
<scott-work> it's uncluttered in many ways and it has simple, but functional, window dressings for example
<scott-work> shnatsel: good point
<shnatsel> scott-work: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/pantheon-wallpaper/+spec/focus-blur
<shnatsel> ;)
<scott-work> ah, yes...this is like the windows 7 or vista or something
<scott-work> my wife has a window laptop she refuses to let me change to linux and it does this
<scott-work> i very, very rarely use it though
<shnatsel> scott-work: huh? It's implemented somewhere already?
<scott-work> i belive so, perhaps its the other windows that blur or the background...i suppose it could be both
<scott-work> but i recall that on my wife's windows machine the stuff behind the active window is blurred, it could only be other windows but it could include the background as well
<shnatsel> AFAIR only the window decoration blurs stuff beneath it
<shnatsel> Compiz can blur inactive windows
<shnatsel> that module crashes Compiz on my PC with default settings, though
<shnatsel> I had to tweak it
<shnatsel> and I don't like the effect anyway
<shnatsel> Fading out inactive windows works better
<shnatsel> it's Compiz's ADD helper module
<scott-work> but this was on a windows machine
<scott-work> they are copying linux anyways ;)
<scott-work> shnatsel: i appreciate your suggestions and comments and would appreciate any help you are willing to provide
<shnatsel> scott-work: does forking ubuntu studio and making elementary studio count as help? ;)
<shnatsel> I want to make your liveDVD first :)
<scott-work> if we can steal some of you stuff!
<scott-work> hehe
<shnatsel> scott-work: no problem :)
<scott-work> shnatsel:  astraljava had a very good point last night about supporting another image
<shnatsel> scott-work: huh?
<shnatsel> scott-work: I think I missed it
<scott-work> we have been struggling to just test the images we have currently
<scott-work> and the team is already spread pretty thin
<scott-work> so we have a few options that i can think of currently...
<scott-work> 1. scrap the live dvd (not my preference)
<scott-work> 2. build up the community more (yay!)
<scott-work> 3. create an "unofficial" livedvd that is "community" supported (weird third option)
<shnatsel> scott-work: I choose 3 for Oneiric
<scott-work> shnatsel: i presume you meant to help us create an officially built livedvd that is created and hosted by canonical via the automated buildd system that already builds the other images
<scott-work> is that correct?  or am i mistaken
 * scott-work is often mistaken but can easily admit it ;)
<shnatsel> scott-work: I'm OK with that too
<shnatsel> scott-work: I have no idea about Canonical build systems, though
<shnatsel> scott-work: I know I can build a livedvd right now
<scott-work> the buildd daemon builds the image from our seed files automatically and can only use items in the repositories
<scott-work> all the ubuntu studio team does is have the seeds in our code
<scott-work> but it would appear that you are suggesting we build our live dvd manually?
<shnatsel> scott-work: well, building from seeds is OK
<scott-work> i'm not judging or stating preference, i just want to understand your suggested process for building a live dvd
<shnatsel> scott-work: I'm OK with any process that's best for the project
<scott-work> i think that different people have different expectations and perhaps perceptions
<scott-work> shnatsel: but what would your original idea for building a live dvd?
<scott-work> s/would/was
<shnatsel> scott-work: making an unofficial one for Oneiric to test it out and make it official for LTS
<shnatsel> that was my initial plan
<scott-work> shnatsel:  can you describe what you meant by "official"?
<shnatsel> scott-work: no idea tbh
<scott-work> lol, okay :)
<shnatsel> scott-work: I have no idea about your processes
<scott-work> i think i understand though
<scott-work> perhaps you meant "unofficial" is that we build it and then just test it, we don't announce it publicly as an available image
<scott-work> then for the LTS we build it and then announce it to the public as an available image
<shnatsel> that's up to you actually
<shnatsel> I build the image
<shnatsel> you do the announcements you want
<scott-work> sh
<scott-work> shnatsel: how would you build the image?
<shnatsel> I'm not the PR guy of the project
<scott-work> i'll explain in a minute why i'm so curious about how you will build and the term "official" in a minute
<shnatsel> scott-work: whatever process you prefer. I can build it locally. I can write a script that builds it. Whatever.
<scott-work> again, this goes with expectation and perceptions
<scott-work> okay, i'll explain why i was asking
<shnatsel> It's a matter of apt-get install ubuntustudio-desktop && pack image
<scott-work> like i said before, we currently use the automated buildd daemon from canonical, the same one ubuntu uses to build their images
<scott-work> this doesn't make it the "right" way or the preferred way, it just is _the_ way it is done currently
<scott-work> to some this is the "official" image
<shnatsel> I guess it's handy
<scott-work> and to some the logic goes the other way as well....it is the "official" image because it's built by the buildd system
<scott-work> which infers that it cannot be "official" if it isn't built using the buildd system
<scott-work> again, not passing judgement or saying this is right or "proper", just stating how some feel
<scott-work> my thoughts are...we choose what image we want to call "official"
<scott-work> it's an arbitrary decision
<scott-work> and choosing to say the buildd images are "official" is arbitrary decision as well
<scott-work> but here's a nice dileneation....
<scott-work> currently we follow canonical's QA system for the images and are required to participate in the montly image testing
<scott-work> but if we offer an alternative image that we build then we might avoid that mandatory involvement in the QA testing
<falktx> shnatsel: hey
<falktx> hey there everyone
<shnatsel> hi falktx 
<scott-work> not to say we wouldn't test it, but we wouldn't need to test two basically identical images and double our workload on a monthly basis
<falktx> shnatsel: the last package had a small error, I forgot cmake
<falktx> and section still seems to be kde
<falktx> no kde3/kde4 difference I guess
<scott-work> we could test our current image montly, then after release we could make the livedvd, test is specifically for the "live" aspect, then make it available for people :)
<scott-work> shnatsel: do you have any objections, suggestions, comments, etc to what i described?
<scott-work> falktx: you mentioned hosting a livedvd on your sourceforge page, is that still a valid offer?
<falktx> scott-work: yes!
<shnatsel> scott-work: I'm OK with that, except for the LiveDVD needs some testing too, and I think it's better to do it before the release, not after
<falktx> scott-work: but making it takes a lot of time, so I think it's better to wait until final release, then make one
<shnatsel> falktx: not that much
<falktx> hm?
<shnatsel> falktx: I've apt-built my squashfs-tools, so now I can build live Ubuntu images in ~30 minutes
<shnatsel> compression stage takes 2-4 minutes
<shnatsel> AuFS mount of squashfs - 1 minute
<shnatsel> or less
<falktx> shnatsel: 2-4 minutes? what cpu do you have??
<falktx> it takes ~30 mins to compress the squash fs for me...
<shnatsel> falktx: use apt-build :P
<shnatsel> falktx: Core2Quad Q6600
<falktx> ah
<shnatsel> falktx: I bet Gentoo would build it even faster
<falktx> quad
<falktx> I have dual core 2.1Ghz
<shnatsel> falktx: 2.4 here
<falktx> makes sense
<shnatsel> falktx: I don't have 100% CPU usage anymore
<falktx> shnatsel: have you looked at my script?
<shnatsel> falktx: after I apt-built squashfs-tools
<shnatsel> now the bottleneck is the hard disk
<shnatsel> falktx: which one?
<falktx> to make a live iso
<shnatsel> falktx: nope. never heard of it.
<falktx> http://kxstudio.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=kxstudio/kxstudio;a=blob;f=scripts/kxstudio-create-iso;h=45a71bd0caa04359986fbb5e4989feee05abc9d5;hb=refs/heads/master
<shnatsel> gah
<shnatsel> one more reinvention of the wheel
<falktx> shnatsel: well, it's for personal use
<shnatsel> elementary has a similar thing when I came
<falktx> but shared as all-is-opensource spirit
<shnatsel> falktx: this is a sure overkill. Just use UCK.
<falktx> shnatsel: I used that script to build previous KXStudio ISOs
<falktx> I like to have control, using an app to make things for me it's not what I want here
<shnatsel> falktx: UCK does all the boring  stuff and lets you script the rest
<shnatsel> falktx: but, really, the ISO build script should be "uncompress minimal ISO, install metapackage, build ISO"
<falktx> my script creates a new empty chroot and builds from there
<shnatsel> falktx: UCK does the same.
<shnatsel> falktx: but UCK is popular and polished
<shnatsel> falktx: and you don't have to care about working around upstream bugs
<shnatsel> falktx: moreover, it doesn't stupidly uncompress the base image - it uses an AuFS mount when possible, which speeds up base image uncompression several times
<shnatsel> falktx: reinventing it is not a good idea.
<falktx> I don't think I'm reinventing, I'm just doing things as I know
<falktx> I never used UCK
<shnatsel> OK, as you wish
<shnatsel> I tried that in elementary and had to give up this approach because debugging and maintaining it took too much time
<shnatsel> so I switched to UCK
<falktx> shnatsel: consider it this way - I made that script (which are basically the command-line stuff I need to run, just packed), so I'm very confortable with it
<shnatsel> then I switched installing separate packages to Germinate-based seeds, because apt-get lines left too much unwanted stuff after them, or pulled it back in on updating some packages
<shnatsel> and I got tired of debugging it
<falktx> debugging?
<shnatsel> falktx: sure
<falktx> creating an ISO is simple, it's just take takes a lot of cpu and disk usage
<falktx> and my disk already broke once
<shnatsel> falktx: lol
<falktx> my laptop no longer has warranty, so I need to be extra careful
<shnatsel> falktx: bug 799375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 799375 in elementary OS 0.2 "Leftover packages in Luna" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799375
<shnatsel> falktx: do you know how many times I tracked those recommends and removed them just to get unity back in the ISO in a week?
<falktx> shnatsel: ahaha, I never had that problem
<falktx> it's all about meta-packages
<shnatsel> falktx: yep
<falktx> kxstudio meta-packages are simple and clean
<shnatsel> falktx: so, elementary build script now looks like "call uck to unpack image, install metapackage, call uck to pack image"
<shnatsel> because there's no point in maintaining custom build functions
<shnatsel> uck already does it and does it very well
<falktx> I believe in you
<falktx> but
<falktx> "don't fix what ain't broken"
<shnatsel> falktx: time will break it.
<shnatsel> falktx: unfortunately :(
<falktx> shnatsel: if my script stops working, I'll definitely try uck
<falktx> but, except maybe for US, I dont plan to build any more ISOs
<scott-work> shnatsel: sorry, i probably didn't explain myself properly about testing and a live dvd
<scott-work> we would do all the expected testing for the alternative image throughout the cycle, this validates the image and applications
<shnatsel> falktx: if you ever plan to do it again, apt-build your squashfs-tools, or even use a compiler that optimizes better than GCC :)
<scott-work> then after the "official" (i.e. the buildd built image) is released then we create the "community" image
<scott-work> then we test the "community" live dvd only for the "live" aspect, we don't need to reaffirm the packages work, etc 
<shnatsel> scott-work: OK
<shnatsel> np
<shnatsel> whatever is best for you
<scott-work> i just wanted to point out that we would test the live dvd, but just a select aspect of it
<scott-work> shnatsel: this isn't a firm decision yet and the team really needs to discuss this further on how a live dvd would be created, supported, etc
<shnatsel> scott-work: I hope this is none of my business :) Alert me when you make a decision.
<scott-work> i think we should also discuss _which_ images we might want, some might suggest eliminating the alternate image completely
<shnatsel> yep
<shnatsel> it makes even more sense if the ubiquity patch will be a success
<shnatsel> s/will be/is/
<kubotu> shnatsel meant: "it makes even more sense if the ubiquity patch is a success"
<scott-work> shnatsel:  lol, i think we would appreciate your involvment if only to inform us of the available methods and their advantages
<scott-work> kubotu: are you a bot?
<charlie-tca> kubotu is the bot normally found only in Kubuntu channels
<scott-work> charlie-tca: yeah, i know, but sometimes i try to get him to say something
<scott-work> but i forgot, i though jussi muted him a while back...hmmm, i wonder what changed
<scott-work> that bot used to spout all kinds of crap at random intervals and seemed to be responding to other conversations in other channels :/
<charlie-tca> I wish the rest of the bots could give the corrections the way kubotu does
<scott-work> lol
<shnatsel> elementary's RabbitBot is clever enough to respond to greetings, praise and calling names :)
<shnatsel> I don't think that an alternate image is a good idea really
<shnatsel> if you don't want to support two images, use livedvd :)
<shnatsel> but, let's first make one and see if it works at all
<shnatsel> So, I wrote some docs on edubuntu's ubiquity: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JinRIl_hYWJA4L0COe9r5uAX4ZgmfqyIYmC5Tdhfn3o/edit?hl=ru
<shnatsel> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JinRIl_hYWJA4L0COe9r5uAX4ZgmfqyIYmC5Tdhfn3o/edit
<shnatsel> actually
<holstein> yup... +1 live disc
<holstein> but, maybe not this cycle
<scott-work> shnatsel: did you help edubuntu develop this?
<shnatsel> scott-work: nope
<shnatsel> scott-work: I just went and questioned stgraber
<shnatsel> and then wrote this doc
<scott-work> cool
<scott-work> cory had mentioned talkign to the edubuntu guys about this
<shnatsel> btw, me and stgraber work in some close areas, e.g. he wrote Arkose and I wrote Glimpse. I guess it could be a good idea to team up.
<shnatsel> Well, now we have the info :)
<shnatsel> So, to get that we need the following:
<shnatsel> 1) fix bug 840144
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 840144 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Use recommends instead of depends in seeds" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840144
<shnatsel> 2) customize edubuntu-live package and make ubuntustudio-live
<shnatsel> 3) viola, build the ISO
<shnatsel> btw, you have an enormous amount of [needs-packaging] bugs... I'd really want to see darktable in Ubuntu repos
<shnatsel> oh, it's available in Oneiric! Yay!
 * shnatsel installs in in Glimpse to try it out
<shnatsel> wow, darktable is super-cool indeed
<scott-work> shnatsel: i offer two comments about [needs-packaging] bugs...
<holstein> there was a really nice email on the list too
<scott-work> 1. we haven't really had someone to package things
<holstein> about xsane
<holstein> some other stuff more opinion bases...
<holstein> based*
<scott-work> 2. REVU (the ubuntu process for new packages) seems to be quite slow and unrepsonsive to audio/graphical/video packages
<holstein> is there a REVU channel?
<scott-work> holstein: i read that last night or this morning while walking dogs, it's good information
<scott-work> holstein: i don't know about a REVU channel
<scott-work> shnatsel: but we have found that submitting bugs, or appending launchpad bugs for debian, tends to move things along well
<holstein> i think its just *-motu
<holstein> scott-work: im going to hang with pete graner today :)
<holstein> its his Bday too
<scott-work> cool :)
<scott-work> he's still with the kernel team, right?
<holstein> AFAIK
<scott-work> it was JFo that was dropped or quit or whatever
<holstein> i havent talked to him in years
<holstein> he came to a gig i played in his neighborhood
<scott-work> that's awesome
<holstein> i havent seen Jfo in a while either
<shnatsel> hmm... how do I report a bug in SourceForge?
<craigs63> http://sourceforge.net/support       anything on here look like it fits your problem?
<craigs63> (I know nothing)
<shnatsel> sorry, I meant reporting a bug in an app that is hosted on SourceForge
<craigs63> Hard to tell who is "away" on here, or is that the lighter grey user names?
<scott-work> craigs63:  depends on your irc client, but in xchat the light gray is away
<scott-work> btw, hi craigs63 and christof 
<craigs63> using XChat 2.8.8.  Thanks
<craigs63> Is there a torrent version of the beta Oneiric dvd? I have better luck with those vs. regular d/l on my laptop.
<shnatsel> Wow, darktable is so freaking awesome
<shnatsel> you gotta replace shotwell with darktable in ubuntu studio for sure
<shnatsel> well, maybe tnot replace, but include it as well for sure
<scott-work> craigs63: torrents do not generally exist for images until they are officially released
<scott-work> craigs63: you can zync or rzync with some of the daily images however to reduce downloads
<scott-work> shnatsel: all that i ask for including applications is to adjust or add to the work flows
<shnatsel> scott-work: OK
<scott-work> shnatsel: of course if a work flow is made for some task that only 0.01% of users might use then we probably won't include that apps though ;)
<scott-work> just a sanity check is all we use
<scott-work> shnatsel: you seem very interested in the graphical applications, i am very receptive to your input on creating a more comprehensive grapichical application set
<shnatsel> scott-work: I'll try to add more workflows there, but, as I said, I suck at paperwork :(
<scott-work> it's kinda funny to see people talk about the ubuntu studio theme because it is old and kinda broken in some ways
<scott-work> shnatsel:  the form of the work flows isn't set in stone, it's jsut what i created when i first started them, please feel free to use what is comfortable
<craigs63> I installed regular ubuntu, then the studio stuff, so I am not sure I have the "real" themes.
<scott-work> shnatsel: also, i'd be happy to assist you with them, if an email to me is better then do that and then i'll write it up
<shnatsel> scott-work: OK :)
<shnatsel> scott-work: darktable seems to embrace the whole photographic workflow
<shnatsel> scott-work: from importing photos from the camera to uploading them to online galleries
<shnatsel> I think I'll write this up myself
<shnatsel> I think I'll make a PPA for the custom ubiquity and other stuff
<shnatsel> anybody willing to work on bug 840144?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 840144 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Use recommends instead of depends in seeds" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840144
<scott-work> shnatsel: i would like to hear from either persia or TheMuso about making that change first
<shnatsel> scott-work: fine
<scott-work> they are some of the original plank owners (and ubuntu core-devs i believe) of ubuntu studio and value their input to make sure any unwanted effects will not occur
<shnatsel> scott-work: AFAIK ubuntu have already switched half of its seed dependencies to recommends, edubuntu have switched to recommends completely, elementary uses recommends for the time being
<scott-work> shnatsel: i also understand that this would be required for the live media changes via the ubuiqity patch
<shnatsel> scott-work: yes
<shnatsel> scott-work: this is a requirement for the user to be able to choose some of the packages provided by the metapackage, not all-or-none
<scott-work> aye
<shnatsel> OK updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows
<scott-work> awesome, thank you shnatsel !
<craigs63> Some of the wiki docs are great, some are saying what the docs _should_ say in the future. 
<holstein> i am at my LUG today
<holstein> we are talking about the jam this weekend
<holstein> i would like to JAM tomorrow on some of the US wikis
<holstein> im not going to have time today
<shnatsel> falktx: you gotta add packages from ppa:doctormo/wacom-plus to ppa:kxstudio-team/kernel
<shnatsel> falktx: that enables recent Wacom tablets
<falktx> shnatsel: oh, ok
<shnatsel> falktx: btw, what's audio-thumbs in KXStudio-Team Main ?
<falktx> shnatsel: thumbs for audio files (displays covers)
<shnatsel> falktx: that python thing?
<shnatsel> falktx: that fetches covers from amazon?
<falktx> don't know if it's python
<falktx> shnatsel: no
<falktx> shnatsel: it's a small thumbnailer, gets images from music files
<falktx> yes, musics have images inside
<shnatsel> falktx: it works for individual files or for directories?
<falktx> files
<shnatsel> hmm
<shnatsel> cool
<falktx> shnatsel: but kde can thumbnails directories, so it's cool
<shnatsel> I tried something similar in the past but it was too slow for general use: http://s59.radikal.ru/i163/1109/00/e335fb0dab52.png
<shnatsel> falktx: does that thumbnailer work under xfce?
<falktx> shnatsel: no, it's just for kde afaik
<shnatsel> that's a pity
<falktx> I really don't like nautilus
<falktx> it's not that nautilus is not good, dolphin is just much better
<shnatsel> falktx: agreed
<shnatsel> falktx: we're making Marlin in elementary, it's similar to Dolphin in some aspects
<falktx> but then dolphin is also advancing
<shnatsel> falktx: yes, 2 years ago I hated it
<shnatsel> falktx: now it's actually usable
<shnatsel> nautilus-elementary was OK though
<falktx> eeh, almost ok
<falktx> top terminal didnt worked right
<falktx> and I miss option when dragging files around
<falktx> *options
<falktx> like move, copy, link, extract, etc
<falktx> dolphin has those, it's very handy
 * falktx is creating a new team for audio plugin development
<shnatsel> falktx: it has
<falktx> shnatsel: what do you think about the website template? -> http://distrho.sourceforge.net/index.html
<shnatsel> falktx: top terminal works fine for me, coverflow works if I tell Clutter not to sync to vblank
<shnatsel> falktx: where's the website template?
<shnatsel> falktx: there's such a lot of stuff in that page
<falktx> shnatsel: top terminal does not handle "ctrl+KEY" events properply
<shnatsel> falktx: it does
<falktx> shnatsel: it's just the template for now, I'll edit later
<falktx> shnatsel: try ctrl+R
<shnatsel> falktx: I use Ctrl+C, Ctrl+O and Ctrl+X
<shnatsel> falktx: never tried +R
<falktx> R is for "history"
<falktx> so I don't type the same commands over and over again
<shnatsel> falktx: try Ctrl+Shift+R
<falktx> can't
<falktx> no longer running elementary-mautilus
<shnatsel> falktx: I use up arrow
 * falktx is on oneiric
<falktx> shnatsel: I guess nautilus-elementary is not available for gnome3, or is it?
<shnatsel> falktx: Ctrl+Shift+R works
<shnatsel> falktx: no, it's not. Marlin is for GNOME3.
<falktx> ctrl+r
<falktx> not ctrl+shift
<shnatsel> falktx: Ctrl+Shift+R does exactly what Ctrl+R does in usual terminal
<falktx> shnatsel: on kde, terminal takes full control of keyboard when selected
<falktx> for nautilus, keyboard is not grabbed, so some combos are send to the nautilus window itself
<shnatsel> falktx: I use open terminal extension instead of embedded terminal if I need something big
<falktx> I just got so used to dolphin
<falktx> F4, do-this, done
<falktx> shnatsel: how far is merlin from being beta/try.out version?
<shnatsel> falktx: mArlin
<shnatsel> falktx: Not sure. It works, it even does that quite well, but it's not complete yet
<shnatsel> falktx: I use it from time to time
<falktx> shnatsel: what are the diffs from nautilus? or is it a new product from scratch?
<shnatsel> falktx: new product from scratch
<falktx> nice
<shnatsel> falktx: elementary actually has LOTS of projects, all written from scratch now: https://launchpad.net/elementary
<shnatsel> falktx: https://launchpad.net/glimpse is mine, not officially elementar [yet]
<falktx> you already know mine, https://launchpad.net/kxstudio
<shnatsel> :)
<falktx> it's also on sourceforge too, for the hosting and website
<falktx> launchpad should allow website hosting
<falktx> glimpse.lp.net
<shnatsel> falktx: why duplicate sf?
<shnatsel> falktx: sf already provides that
<falktx> shnatsel: so you can have your project in 1 place only
<shnatsel> falktx: huh... doesn't make much sense to me.
<shnatsel> I don't need web hosting for my projects anyway.
<falktx> hm, how do I make a gtk status icon double-click aware?
<shnatsel> falktx: what's a status icon?
<falktx> systray
<shnatsel> ah
<falktx> shnatsel: I have a python class that handles systray cross-desktop
<shnatsel> isn't it xembed-based?
<falktx> qt and kde works well, but I don't know much about gtk
<shnatsel> GNOME Panel used to use xembed
<shnatsel> AFAIK
<falktx> nope, app-indicator
<shnatsel> which sucked
<falktx> for xembed I use plain qt
<shnatsel> app indicator? It's an api from KDE, isn't it?
<shnatsel> falktx: I guess there's no way to do it (there shouldn't be at least)
 * falktx looks around
<falktx> no way to do this
<ScottL> astraljava, ping
<ScottL> i'm out and about, but i'll check in from time to time
<astraljava> ScottL: pong
<ScottL> astraljava, aye
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-09-04
<holstein> ScottL astraljava 
<holstein> we do have a meeting scheduled for tomorrow
<holstein> unless either of you oppose
<holstein> im going to send a message to the list moving it to next week due to the holiday
<falktx> oh, what which time?
<holstein> and ill mention that i plan on global jamming in the afternoon some
<holstein> falktx: i think we'll move it to next week
<ScottL> holstein, heh, i think astraljava already sent one reminding people
<holstein> ScottL: thats fine
<holstein> i wont mess with it then
<holstein> OH yeah
<holstein> i see it in there now
<holstein> astraljava ScottL NM
<ScottL> i don't know, you can always send email saying you would prefer to move it :)
<holstein> nah
<holstein> i was kind of assuming more folk than i were busy
<holstein> if you guys can meet and get something done, great :)
<holstein> falktx: it is happening
<holstein> falktx: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Ubuntu+Studio+Contributor+Meeting&iso=20110904T17
<holstein> biab...
<falktx> I never understood the timing
<ScottL> holstein, 
<holstein> ScottL: YO
<ScottL> what do you think about moving to removing pulse audio?
<ScottL> just using alsa and jack?
<holstein> ScottL: im in
<falktx> here portugal we say lisbon is gmt0, but there's always 1h delay from official hours
<ScottL> if we are seriously trying to make this as easy for new people, this would be it then
<holstein> that might score us some points too
<ScottL> i wonder if we will need rebuilt packages though?
<holstein> well, lets bring it up
<holstein> i bet falktx / astraljava know a bit about that
<holstein> what that would affect
<ScottL> hopefully if something is built with pulse enabled but pulse isn't installed then hopefully the package will still run with alsa
<ScottL> falktx, what do you know about removing pulse?
<holstein> biab...
<craigs63> Will regular programs (i.e. Firefox) still run with alsa ?
<falktx> ScottL: and keeping xfce? not sure if possible
<ScottL> craigs63, they used to
<ScottL> falktx, not sure just because you've never experienced it before
<ScottL> falktx, or not sure because it's fraught with difficulty
<ScottL> ?
<falktx> it sure is tricky to get jack and pulse together...
<falktx> hm...
<ScottL> right....
<ScottL> but we don't want pulse
<ScottL> just jack and alsa as the backend
<ScottL> like hardy or pre-hardy
<falktx> ScottL: it may be possible, but we would then need a new mixer
<ScottL> alsa-mixer will not work?
<falktx> maybe, it's a bit confusing
<ScottL> haha, yes it is
<ScottL> well, it's something to think about
<falktx> ScottL: the problem is how to remove pulse
<falktx> pulseaudio, even if not hard-dependency, it probably is recommended by a lot of packages
<ScottL> hmmm, that's true
<falktx> this is a tricky situation
<ScottL> cory was thinking that there might be a way to exclude some recommends
<craigs63> And what happens if people install like I did: regular ubuntu first, then adding the studio packages?
<ScottL> craigs63, that is a very good point
<falktx> if we remove pulse completely, the mixer in xfce4 is gone, and there's no default way to change volume
<ScottL> craigs63, i presume you meant that as a sort-of rhetorical question to make a point and not really wanting an answer
<ScottL> i can answer the question if you want though :)
<craigs63> I tried the US disc, but either it didn't have wifi by default, or I wasn't comfortable with the partitioning.
<craigs63> ScottL: right, rhetorical
<ScottL> we probably shouldn't worry about pulse at this point then, we will have enough things to work on
<falktx> haha, totally
<ScottL> what's all the talk about a jam tomorrow?
<craigs63> I might try to get the Oneiric dvd running on an old laptop...
<craigs63> fyi the IRC "how to's" on http://ubuntustudio.org/support - all 3 chat client links are not found?
<holstein> lol
<holstein> whens the new site going up?
<holstein> ScottL: i say we stick what we got up
<holstein> it cant be less functional than what we got
<craigs63> I'm totally up for being a guinea pig / proofing that stuff.
<holstein> craigs63: thanks :)
<craigs63> I have probably been messing with US or Kubuntu Studio for 4 years now, still don't know how to hook this stuff up.
<ScottL> holstein, yeah, i can see if i can get into the website now, but not _right_ now
<ScottL> i had already been thinking about not worrying about the website...just too many damn things to do
<ScottL> craigs63, what do you want to do?
<ScottL> i.e. "i want to record my guitars with hydrogen drums"
<ScottL> or "i want to make wonky techno synthesizer music"
<craigs63> Besides actually playing guitar better?
<ScottL> lol
<craigs63> multitrack recording guitars , bass and bad vocals on top of drum machine rhythms.
<ScottL> craigs63, easy peasy my man, we can hook you up
<ScottL> craigs63, here's a video i did:  http://vimeo.com/12454464
<craigs63> cool , I will check out
<ScottL> i did a little presentation at my work for some friends who are interesting in music, computer, ubuntu or permutations of all three
<GTRsdk> ScottL: I have made this: https://code.launchpad.net/~gtrsdk/+junk/ubuntustudio-unity-2d
<GTRsdk> but no code has been pushed to it yet
<craigs63> ScottL: video is great, I should've been watching this years back  ;-)
<craigs63> Just another thought - should each of the wiki pages have a link at the bottom pointing to the main or "root" ubuntu studio wiki page?
<craigs63> sometimes you can start clicking thru links and forget how to get back.
<craigs63> The meeting is 12 hours from now, correct? 
<craigs63> mark
<shnatsel> I've finally been pointed to the right way of working with seeds :)
<shnatsel> I understand even how the build bot works, more or less
<shnatsel> I can't understand one thing though
<shnatsel> Can I run the bot locally, and if yes, where do I get it?
<ScottL> meeting in about 1 hour i believe
<shnatsel> hello everybody
<ScottL> i hope it's a good one! ;)
<ScottL> hi shnatsel 
<shnatsel> does anybody know where can I get the code for the bot which builds ISO images from seeds?
<ScottL> the plan might be to stop building an alternate installation image for oneirc+1 and just do live dvd
<ScottL> shnatsel, you might ask cjwatson in #ubuntu-release and other channels about this
<ScottL> or possibkly slankershk
<ScottL> or something like that
<ScottL> or ScottK (not me) who is Scott Kitterman
<shnatsel> ScottL: thanks, will do
<falktx> ScottL: I would still like to have alternate dvds
<falktx> but if it's too much work, I guess they can be dropped
<shnatsel> falktx: I've just discovered the power of seeds, and it doesn't seem to be a lot of work to make them
<falktx> shnatsel: you got the code?
<shnatsel> falktx: nope
<astraljava> falktx: I'm pretty sure I will continue to provide alternates if I only have time, since I'm getting pretty familiar with that stuff now, so won't be too big of a hassle. But that could be done on the side, if we decide they won't be official anymore.
<astraljava> Anybody going to show up for the meeting in 40 minutes?
<shnatsel> astraljava: that's a rhetorical question, isn't it? (I'm going for sure)
<falktx> i'm here too
<astraljava> shnatsel: Not really, as some of the people are from the US, and they have their holidays now. And everybody can't attend every time, so, not really a rhetorical. But thanks for the heads-up!
<shnatsel> astraljava: I'm gonna push blueprint usage during "Any Other Business (all/anyone)" stage, and also livedvd, if it won't be discussed earlier
<astraljava> shnatsel: Or you can edit the agenda all the way up to the start of the meeting.
<astraljava> I'll open it up when we're starting, and paste it in the beginning.
<shnatsel> astraljava: great
<shnatsel> the thing I love about blueprints is that not only they provide a convenient way to track plans and proposals (we have LiveDVD proposal but it's not written down anywhere, the todo list exists only in my mind, etc), but they also make those plans visible to the public.
<shnatsel> http://elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-what%E2%80%99s-our-sleeves really worked - people not involved in the project started picking up blueprints and working on them
<astraljava> I concur, they're great, and I was gonna look into that for the next devel cycle as well, thanks for beating me to it, though! :)
<shnatsel> I was quite surprised to see lots of the work I planned for myself to be done by strangers and much faster than I planned to
<astraljava> The power of distributed development. :D
<scott-upstairs> falktx, why do you prefer to keep the alternate dvd?
<astraljava> Okay, AFK for a while. I'll probably show up only a minute or so before the meeting.
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, i will be here for the meeting
<astraljava> Awesome!
<scott-upstairs> btw:  been playing with this:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ContributeToDevelopment
<scott-upstairs> someone threw down the gaunlet on the blog about making a wiki page that lists where people can help
<scott-upstairs> it is still a WIP
<falktx> scott-upstairs: I prefer alternate new installs
<falktx> it gives me more freedom about what to install
<shnatsel> elementary has a similar thing and it's also in a poor state: http://elementaryos.org/get-involved
<holstein> astraljava: ping
<holstein> scott-upstairs: ping-o-la
<scott-upstairs> holstein, pong
<holstein> just checking to see who is chairing the meeting
<holstein> if its me, i was going to get my S in a pile
<scott-upstairs> holstein, i don't know, i haven't even looked at the agenda yet
<holstein> we have an agenda ;)
<holstein> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4
<holstein> found it :)
<holstein> looks current
<holstein> i wanted to make sure the website was on there
<holstein> i really want to talk about putting up what we got
<holstein> i mean, if its an issue of broken links, we got em
<holstein> the site is horrible right now
<scott-upstairs> i just updated the agenda as i could:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4
<scott-upstairs> holstein, i added some stuff about website and rearragned a bit
<astraljava> holstein: I will, no worries.
<astraljava> Unless you really want to. :)
<astraljava> Ahh... wonderful, someone's actually paying attention to the agenda. :) This is starting to feel like a proper project again. *grin*
<falktx> what is the meeting channel again?
<astraljava> #ubuntu-meeting
<holstein> astraljava: nah.. im just offering if needed
<holstein> go for it :)
<astraljava> Sure, sure.
<scott-upstairs> if you read the agenda before _right_ now, you might want to relook at it
<falktx> how much time left?
<scott-upstairs> 2 minutes?
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: I just reloaded.
<scott-upstairs> !agenda
<scott-upstairs> I'd like to find out how to set that stuff
<falktx> hm...
<scott-upstairs> yes?
<astraljava> Okay then, let's go.
 * scott-upstairs will be _right_ back, getting new drink
<astraljava> Drink is good.
<scott-upstairs> just water, i don't drink alcohol anymore...you didn't have to wait for me ;)
<shnatsel> astraljava: updated agenda
<scott-upstairs> agenda is at:   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4
<scott-upstairs> good adds shnatsel 
<shnatsel> scott-upstairs: I drink tea. Using a 0,5 L mug.
<scott-upstairs> i used to drink _a lot_ of beer...way too much beer, finally gave it up
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, holstein...are you here?  are we starting?
<scott-upstairs> falktx, you here?
<falktx> yes
<falktx> scott-upstairs: yes
<holstein> yup... over in *-meeting
<scott-upstairs> OH CRaP!
<scott-upstairs> join /#ubuntu-meeting
<scott-upstairs> fail
<astraljava> Haha, we're waiting for you. :)
<holstein> OK... i gotta run too
<astraljava> Okay, thanks folks. I'll post the meeting minutes and the new agenda shortly.
<TheMuso> ScottL: I think thats rather subjective.
<TheMuso> Different people think it should behave in different ways.
<TheMuso> So I can't really say either way.
<astraljava> I'm a little bit puzzled about it as well. Like already mentioned, IMHO -desktop is about experience, and isn't fulfilled anymore after removal of packages that construct it.
<TheMuso> Right
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-08-27
<len-dt> ailo, just so you know. I won't be around for a bit. The family is going camping.
<ailo> holstein: I think you can agree on that no matter if you use low latency or not, you need realtime operation to get reliable operation
<ailo> I mean, even on large latencies, without realtime privilege, you will get audio dropouts, if you stress the system
<ailo> No one who is planning on using Linux for audio is going to be happy about that
<ailo> holstein: Realtime privilege in itself does not give you low latencty. It just make sure realtime apps won't be interrupted by the system
<ailo> holstein: It's in combination with a low latency capable kernel you get that
<ailo> I mean, in it's in combination with a low latency cabable kernel you get the really low latencies
<ailo> Or, I should not say be interrupted by the system. Realtime apps get more priority
<ailo> holstein: Anyway. Realtime privilege is more or less absolutely needed for someone who is going to be producing music
<ailo> holstein: And, if they need really low latencies, they need -lowlatency
<smartboyhw> o/ ScottL I'm wondering: Will there be build errors again for Quantal?:)
<ScottL> smartboyhw: i'm sure there will be, do you fear a particular build error?
<smartboyhw> ScottL: I do. I don't have anything to test:)
<ScottL> so you understand, ubuntu makes many changes, which sometimes breaks our stuff
<smartboyhw> OK;)
<ScottL> many times those breakages affect ubuntu as well as ubuntu studio, in those cases they get recognized and fixed by others
<ScottL> however, a subset of those do not affect ubuntu, and therefore we have to discover, triage, and fix them
<smartboyhw> It's 27th and still the build is of 21st. That's why I need to ask:)
<ScottL> smartboyhw: BUT as a QA process, we must test the milestone images (i.e. the alphas, betas, RC, etc)
<smartboyhw> ScottL: I know
<ScottL> right, but we are required to test dailies necessarily
<ScottL> however, i think i understand your concern, there haven't been any new images, therefore there must be a failed build
<ScottL> i'll look at the mailing list queue and see what is stuck in there
<smartboyhw> ScottL: Some packages are not updated I think (and those others told me that)
<ScottL> i remember len-dt  saying something about that
<ScottL> some of these might be an issue the feature freeze (FF)
<smartboyhw> :(
<ScottL> but some might not, since we would be fixing bugs and not introducing new features
<ScottL> i will see about talking to len and seeing where we stand on these and what we need to get done then
<smartboyhw> :)
<ailo> ScottL: len-dt was going camping. Don't know if he left yet
<smartboyhw> len-dt really likes camping:)
<ScottL> ailo: thanks
<ScottL> ailo: have you started -controls? how is it going?
<smartboyhw> Now, trying to see if len-dt
<smartboyhw> 's problems about scroll bars in slideshow exist:)
<smartboyhw> ScottL: Would you like to answer thebishop
<smartboyhw> 's question in #ubuntustudio? I can't answer, I am not dev
<ScottL> smartboyhw: i shall try
<smartboyhw> Thanks:)
<ScottL> you are welcome
<ScottL> thank you for being a presence in that channel, it helps people understand that ubuntu studio isn't dead :P
<smartboyhw> ;P
<smartboyhw> ScottL: In that sense of way, why would people think Ubuntu Studio has been dead?
<holstein> ailo: but, the lowlatency kernel comes by default now
<holstein> ailo: what i am trying to dodge is "i have no need to lower my latency lower than what it is right not out of the box, but i read a few terms on the internet and id like to waste your time and mine by tweaking for about a month"
<holstein> ailo: if someone says "i want to install the realtime kernel" i'll help.. i usually ask what they need it for, and suggest that maybe its not worththe hassle if they are a new user
<holstein> ailo: i think a person could be doing podcasting and a lot of other arguably professional audio production and not have JACK running, realtime, or care anything about the kernel they are using
<smartboyhw> I actually think almost no body that was busy using Ubuntu Studio for multimedia production would even know what kernel he is using:)
<holstein> well, if you want under 1ms latency, you'll probabaly want to learn about it
<holstein> i just argue that most folks dont need it.. they read a term and also some FUD on audio lists about how ubuntustudio sucks and doesnt even have a realtime kernel and they think they are missing something
<holstein> i can totally understand that, but typically, when you ask, the user is not doing anything they need JACK for
<holstein> ive been helping folks before and we get JACK running and a realtime kernel and then they want to convert a wav to mp3 or something that just doesnt need JACK
<smartboyhw> Uh o
<smartboyhw> *oh
<ScottL> smartboyhw: i would say that if anyone went to #ubuntustudio (as we tell them to do in various places) and they either don't get a response for three days or possible even never get a response, then i would posit that this sends an unfortunate message to users
<smartboyhw> ScottL: Not understanding the last sentence. BTW, read my PM.
<ScottL> smartboyhw: if we don't have people in #ubuntustudio channel answering questions, or at least saying they will find someone to answer them, then it gives the impression that ubuntu studio, as a whole, is not active
<smartboyhw> Ah
<smartboyhw> Well, holstein is trying to help now:)
<holstein> like this guy... "im trying to use the firewire driver with a USB device"
<knome> holstein, that's useful!
<holstein> all this guy needs is audactiy to work with an external USB device
<smartboyhw> :)
<holstein> he could have *any* other ubuntu variant, or main ubuntu and use pavucontrol
<holstein> instead, he's looking at our docs and trying JACK with a firewiere driver for some reason
<holstein> this guy doesnt need ubuntustudio
<smartboyhw> True
<holstein> to have a user on his level come to us with a simple task and have such a hard time, in my opinion, only makes us look bad as a whole
<smartboyhw> People seemed confused of what Ubuntu Studio is now:(
<holstein> this guys story will go "all i wanted was to open audacity like i always have in windows and record something"
<holstein> "ubuntu sucks"
<holstein> which, is far from the case.. its just a bit of mis-information and a big change in work flow
<smartboyhw> holstein: No, he will mean "Ubuntu Studio sucks" then...
<holstein> smartboyhw: we'll see... it usually gets shortened ;)
<holstein> regardless, we are representatives of the entire community, and i just want to be clear
<smartboyhw> ;) Sure, since Ubuntu Studio is a flavor of ubuntu then he will end up saying "Ubuntu sucks" That's the last thing we want:(
<ScottL> micahg: are you aware of anything that len-dt might have done that still needs to be uploaded to the repos?
<ScottL> micahg: these might or might not involved FFe's
<ScottL> or requiring FFe's, i am presuming the majority do NOT require them
<smartboyhw> Bye a;;
<smartboyhw> *all
<ailo> ScottL: I'm tied up with other things at the moment. Going to wrap up some testing scripts first. Probably, I won't finish most things in time for final release. I just don't have enough times per day
<ailo> I'm practically coding every waking moment, except for when I'm eating or working out at the moment
<ScottL> wow
<ScottL> let me know if i can help with anything
<ailo> Sadly, I have another project that just has to be finished soon, which is not US related
<ailo> ScottL: I'm not so concerned about the release date right now. I just want to finish what I've started
<ailo> ScottL: I'll finish all my tasks, sometime this fall. After that, I'll step back from US development for a while
<ScottL> ailo: that's completely understandable
<ScottL> ailo: to be honest, even if you get it the -controls stuff done after release, then it's still done
<ailo> As long as it gets done, yeah. I also want to push it into debian, in another form, with another name, so there's some things to consider there too
<ailo> I think later, I'll be inclined to join the Debian multimedia team
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-08-28
<smartboyhw> OK, a question here: Should we have a meeting again due to the upcoming release of 12.10 Beta 1?
<holstein> should?... i mean, we can
<holstein> we had regularly scheduled ones.. everyone just got busy
<smartboyhw> I do agree
<holstein> i liked the idea of just have "as needed" informal meetings
<holstein> just meet up in here about the UI, or kernel or whatever
<smartboyhw> OK
<holstein> but, i personally dont care.. i will support whoever takes the initiative
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-08-29
<scott-work> you may notice that there will be a bunch of cd-image build fail emails posting...sorry 'bout that taking so long
<scott-work> but i also think (or hope) i fixed this for the future
<micahg> yeah, I'll drop the indicator stuff when I get the meta uploaded (need to chat with cjwatson about that)
<scott-work> micahg: did you mean to post that in this channel?
<micahg> no
<knome> :)
<micahg> that's why the livefs is failing :)
 * micahg disappears again
<scott-work> hehe
<knome> hey scott-work :)
<scott-work> hi knome, how are you today
<knome> very well!
<knome> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-flavor-xubuntu.html
<knome> "oops"
<knome> look at last week...
<knome> still a few things bugging and giving me some FOSS-anxiety though
<scott-work> looking good knome, we are nearly that good and i'll be forward, it's most likely due to len's efforts
<scott-work> although i do expect to get things in gear for me and do some work as well
<scott-work> but right now, i have to go home
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-08-30
<ailo> Kind of quiet here when len is on vacation
<ailo> Good morning, btw
<smartboyhw> Good morning ailo
<smartboyhw> I'm working on the documentation, ailo. I will finish it on Saturday:)
<smartboyhw> ailo-w: I've been working on the documentation now, will finish it by Saturday:)
<ailo-w> smartboyhw: Sounds good
<smartboyhw> After that I still got a testcase to write about UEFI:)
<scott-work> micahg: you mentioned uploading the indicator something-or-other yesterday, will this fix the build failuers by chance?
<micahg> yeah, I need to get your meta and other stuff in for beta 1
<scott-work> thank you :)
<micahg> sorry I haven't had much time lately to push this stuff in
<scott-work> micahg: it's understandable, everyone gets busy
<scott-work> i was more worried about just making sure the builds were being fixed already or if i needed to start looking into it ;)
<scott-work> at least it appears that the build fail emails are now passed through by the mailman automatically again
<scott-work> going home
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-08-31
<holstein> smartboyhw: if you would, correct me in this channel please
<holstein> especially on stupid little picky grammatical errors where your correcting me is just adding lines to the screen
<micahg> grr...publishing and photography will have to wait until after beta 1...srry
<micahg> *sorry
<micahg> at least it should build again
<micahg> FWIW, the tasks should still be installed on the live media, but won't be in the archive, if it causes issues with the ISO, we can still try to get them in for beta 1, but I think I need help
<micahg> or rather, see if cjwatson can do it maybe as I think I've failed here
<smartboyhw> ......
<smartboyhw> holstein: ping
<smartboyhw> holstein: PING
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i looked at the build fail email and it looks like is an indicator package that is the problem
<smartboyhw> Yes it is
<smartboyhw> Strangely Xubuntu has the same problem I think
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i spoke with mic.ah about this, because i had seen him mention the indicator already, and he was working on getting something to the repos soon
<scott-work> not strangely really, we are using the same indicator system as them actually
<smartboyhw> OK
<holstein> smartboyhw: poing
<smartboyhw> holstein: pong
<smartboyhw> Hi holstein:)
<holstein> hey!
<smartboyhw> The build failures are still on, Xubuntu indicator problems:(
<holstein> sure..
<smartboyhw> ...
<holstein> wait til ours start to pile up
<holstein> OH... and theres a meeting in the main dev channel about just remving JACK or one of our big main packages ;)
<smartboyhw> What? I'll go there immediately
<holstein> nah.. you dont go there
<smartboyhw> ?
<holstein> and you certainly dont go there and complain
<smartboyhw> I won't complain, only listen
<holstein> im just saying.. there are a lot of fires to put out
<smartboyhw> :)
<holstein> no need to be concerned yet
<smartboyhw> ok
<scott-work> holstein: do you know which package?
<scott-work> if this is only being removed from the main repo, this might not be a problem really
<holstein> scott-work: im just saying.. like last cycle
<holstein> when the s nearly hit the f ;)
<holstein> thats when i get worried
<smartboyhw> ...
<scott-work> this is all i've seen so far:
<scott-work> <Laney> knome: hey, looks like pidgin-libnotify is broken for now due to the indicator-messages transition, causing xubuntu to fail to build [07:26] <knome> Laney, can you drop that until we fix the indicators? thanks [07:26] <Laney> it'll need a pidgin upload to drop it [07:26] <Laney> can you test an upload just dropping the recommends? [07:27] <knome> i'm not a technical person, and i'm busy with real work now [07:
<holstein> yeah.. its not a big deal yet i dont think
<holstein> we dont use those anyways, right?
<smartboyhw> Ah
<scott-work> i think pigdin is shipped on the image but not installed
<smartboyhw> That's the build errors
<micahg> smartboyhw: scott-work: yeah, pidgin-libnotify shouldn't cause a build failure for US
<smartboyhw> ...
<micahg> the rest of the packages were accepted
<holstein> smartboyhw: also, its a good idea to keep an eye on things in case its something xubntu can benefit from out help on
<holstein> our help*
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> What things?:)
<holstein> smartboyhw: whatever you choose
<holstein> you can get the xubuntu emails
<smartboyhw> Well, I am subscribed to it
<holstein> you can just look at the ones like that in our list and know that its not going to effect us
<smartboyhw> The dev list at least
<smartboyhw> Helped do some documentation work too:)
<holstein> sure
<smartboyhw> sure:)
<scott-work> accidentally found this:  http://archive.org/details/ubuntu_Studio_spot
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-01
<smartboyhw> o/ len-dt
<smartboyhw> God, the new Quantal Daily ISO even can't be tested in Testdrive, it requires 8.2 GB HDD!
<len-dt> ailo, how goes?
<ailo> len-dt: Having a day off today. Has been a full week for me. How was camping?
<len-dt> good, but tiring
<len-dt> It seems the menu changes are in. But we have lost most of photography and publishing.
<len-dt> Still added some green to the progress graph
<ailo> I will hopefully have a few days to focus solely on US in one or two weeks
<len-dt> Ya, whenever. I don't think there is any rush
<len-dt> I am noticing that whatever drivers come with the new kernel seem to work better with my old nvidia graphics card.
<ailo> noveau, I presume
<len-dt> ailo, I would guess so. 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-09-02
<len-dt> Wow! that holstein is a pro...
<holstein> lol
<holstein> i think we need a bot that spits that crap out
<len-dt> Good morning smartboyhw 
<smartboyhw> Good morning
<smartboyhw> Also holstein too
<holstein> smartboyhw: o/
<smartboyhw> o/
<micahg> smartboyhw: adjust the testdrive settings to have a large drive then
<smartboyhw> HAHAHA, I did
<len-dt> micahg, thanks for doing the release
<smartboyhw> Thanks micahg
<micahg> len-dt: sure, sorry it took so long :)
<len-dt> Just the metas to figure out I guess. If need be I can put them back on the graphics meta. But it does need fixing some time...
<len-dt> smartboyhw, you -can- run with no swap partition.
<len-dt> In fact it is sometimes better for audio.
<smartboyhw> ailo: I heard that you got some new work to do/ Is that true? Hi len
<len-live> for those who are interested... the quantal daily fails
<smartboyhw> Oh, why?
<len-live> There are a number of bugs. Aside from the panel indicator missing and some metas missing...
<smartboyhw> Bug 1044299?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1044299 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "ubi-partman crashed, and then no installation process, no installation options" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1044299
<len-live> the removable drives show up on the desktop more than once
<smartboyhw> OK
<len-live> ubiquity exits at partman so no install
<len-live> That sounds like a similar bug to bug #1044905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1044905 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity exits when trying to partition drive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1044905
<smartboyhw> oh
<smartboyhw> It is a duplicate
<len-live> Doesn't look like the same bug
<smartboyhw> No
<smartboyhw> God,,,
<len-live> The fix was released before the image I downloaded.
<smartboyhw> Oh
<smartboyhw> TheMaster: Why did you change your nick?
<TheMaster> smartboyhw: Please don't private message in irc without asking first, it goes against netiquette.
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> Sorry TheMaster
<TheMaster> Also, if you look again, I didn't change nicks.
<smartboyhw> Oh?
<smartboyhw> Hmm...
<smartboyhw> But then you use TheMaster in here, Unit193 in there. How do you do it?
<TheMaster> Different clients.
<ailo> smartboyhw: May I help you with something?
<smartboyhw> ailo: What?
<ailo> You have been sending me PM's
<smartboyhw> Nothing, just that my documentation will be delayed, I lost it when my kernel building failed
<smartboyhw> Maybe till Wednesday
<ailo> How did it fail?
<smartboyhw> ailo: I didn't use the Ubuntu repos, just build it completely, and then I lost my drivers
<smartboyhw> Anyway, I'm fine now
<ailo> It's enough if you let me know when you finish it. 
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> Bye ailo
<ailo> TheMuso: Hi. I'd love to take over maintenance of linux-lowlatency for precise. Would you mind sharing your workflow?
<ailo> Also, where would you recommend to keep the source?
<ailo> I see that one can ask Pete Graner for putting up a git repo
<TheMuso> ailo: The workflow is essentially documented in the git tree I uploaded to on kernel.ubuntu.com. Look in the MAINTENANCE file in the top directory.
<ailo> TheMuso: Thanks. So, I take things up with UTK then?
<ailo> UKT*
 * micahg thinks it would be great if *someone* updated that package :)
<ailo> TheMuso: You removed your tree?
<ailo> TheMuso: Found it. Wasn't visible on the web page
<ailo> TheMuso: I'm wondering if that's all? I rebased the source, but how about the debian changelog?
<ailo> I had to do: fakeroot debian/rules clean, in order for fakeroot debian/rules startnewrelease insertchanges to work
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-08-26
<micahg> OvenWerk1: I see ubuntustudio-instaler was uploaded, anything else left to do?
<OvenWerk1> micahg: -installer, menu and -settings all uploaded. I think thats it for me... just waiting for the three to hit the wild.
<micahg> ok, once -installer clears new, they should migrate
<OvenWerk1> ok micahg is there anything I can do to help move it along or is it just waiting for the weekend to end?
<micahg> NEW is processed as time permits, anything in there before Feature Freeze is good for saucy, if you need it in sooner, you can poke in -release
<micahg> jdstrand used to do NEW review on Fridays, don't know if he still does
<OvenWerk1> Thats fine. I can wait.
<OvenWerk1> I can relax now :)
<micahg> I'm glad you managed to find someone and am sorry I wasn't able to get to it
<OvenWerk1> No problem, anything like that again, just say so. I can bug other people :)
<micahg> yeah, I need to learn to say no more :)
<OvenWerk1> Besides I learn more this way ...
<smartboyhw> zequence, you are at WORK?:O
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, :O
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: Yes. I've been working last week too.
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, oh, that's why we can't contact you...
<zequence-work> I'm a Linux teacher for unemployed people
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, sure, teach me how to make multiarch work in a cmake package..
<zequence-work> I'm on every day. Just not all the time
<zequence-work> Not sure how that relates to Linux
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: I know, just can't understand it
<smartboyhw> (SIGH)
<zequence-work> Check the documentation for cmake
<smartboyhw> Hey cub 
<cub> good morning!
<cub> all is well, smartboyhw ?
<smartboyhw> cub, yes
<smartboyhw> cub, what are you asking OvenWerk1 yesterday?
<cub> zequence-work, indeed.
<cub> smartboyhw, I'm about to set up several installations on my laptop and I think he had done what I'm aiming for before and just wanted some feedback
<zequence-work> cub: hi
<cub> spent a week or so trying to shrink my pre-installed old Windows-partition. 
<cub> zequence-work, teaching work or *nix work?
<smartboyhw> cub, both can be mixed together:P
<cub> yes but is usually gets messy after three OS installation I think. :P
<smartboyhw> cub, um, I'm replying to zequence's job, not on your installation...
<cub> haha ok
 * smartboyhw will send a reminder to zequence-work about the RT kernel after FF:P
<zequence-work> cub: I had plus ten Ubuntu/Debian installs at one point
<zequence-work> There was a problem with the installer sometimes, when you hit a certain amount
<cub> how did you partition the hdd?
<zequence-work> You can have max 4 primary partitions
<cub> yeah
<zequence-work> One of them can be shared between all, which is the swap partition
<zequence-work> I just made several small ones. Like 20GB for each testing install
<zequence-work> I'm currently trying to move towards virtual machines on my server, but VirtualBox was making it crash. Need to try something else
<cub> I run most in Vbox but some things I think I would need a "real" installation for
<cub> Virtualbox crash you system? What do you use as host OS, Debian right?
<zequence-work> Debian, yes
<zequence-work> It's headless, and I use remote GUI
<cub> zequence-work, since I pushed to the contributor branch. Do I need to do anything else to get it reviewed and my minor change into the real seed?
<smartboyhw> cub, a merge proposal
<smartboyhw> (But I suppose OvenWerk1 did the orca change already(
<cub> yes but I put in brltty as well.
<smartboyhw> cub, oh good
<smartboyhw> Merge proposal then
<cub> dang, I should have done that on Friday already
<smartboyhw> cub, no worries:)
<smartboyhw> We can push it in
<cub> Should I name someone as reviewer?
<smartboyhw> cub, Ubuntu Studio Development Team is OK
<smartboyhw> So I or OvenWerk1 or zequence-work can review 
<cub> I suppose it will go there anyway, the field is "optional"
<cub> and done.
<smartboyhw> OK, let me review:)
<cub> it shoudl be quick, I only added "* (brltty) "
<cub> :)
<cub> but how does it work after that? Do you need to manually do the same change in the main branch? Or can it automatically include just the last change in the contributor branch? Since there might have been other changes done there since I pushed on Friday.
<smartboyhw> cub, yep, manually, I'm doing it
<smartboyhw> Just a bzr merge and a bzr commit
<smartboyhw> cub, MERGED
<cub> whohoo
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, you are now having the same problems like OvenWerk1 of bzr launchpad-login
<cub> I've got some good feedback from the ubuntu-accessibility mailing list. It seems there might be an audience for Ubuntu Studio there if we can get it to work properly.
<smartboyhw> Now the question: Do we want to update it for -meta?
<smartboyhw> If yes, either we wait for micahg or we ask somebody else to sponsor the upload
<cub> hu?
<smartboyhw> cub, which country are you from again?
<cub> Sweden
<smartboyhw> cub, look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamStructure:)
<cub> Oooh fame and glory!
<smartboyhw> LOL
<cub> I have started up a wikipage https://wiki.ubuntu.com/cub
<smartboyhw> cub, oh great:)
<smartboyhw> cub, look at mine:P https://wiki.ubuntu.com/smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> And I need an update, hmm
<cub> "ninja" hehe
<smartboyhw> cub, OK, this team doesn't actually exist (as in the team's LP profile)
<cub> which team?
<smartboyhw> cub, ninjas
<smartboyhw> launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ninjas
<cub> Haha I didn't know there was one.
<smartboyhw> cub, there actually is (in Launchpad terms)
<zequence-work> cub: Did you first make sure the branch was updated with the changes from the master branch (i.e. the ubuntustudio-dev branch)?
<zequence-work> Before making changes, first pull changes from the master branch
<zequence-work> Then make changes, then push, then do merge request
<zequence-work> I can have a look
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, nah, I bzr pulled before merging
<smartboyhw> For cub :)
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: Ok
<zequence-work> cub: Are you with us on the details on this now?
<zequence-work> Since there are two branches, the second one needs to be updated before making changes (preferably)
<cub> zequence-work, yes I pulled the main branch just before doing my change, then push to the contributor branch. Though I didn't do the merge proposal until today, which might be an issue?
<smartboyhw> cub, the main branch might have changed during the time you started doing the editing work and the merge proposal
<cub> exactly, that's why I asked before
<zequence-work> cub: What you do then is you first do a merge to your own branch, before pushing it to contributor - if there were changes
<zequence-work> Or you can do it the other way around too of course
<zequence-work> I mean push changes first. Then merge with the main branch
<zequence-work> cub: Ok, so you had your first change done in code today then
<zequence-work> Congrats
<zequence-work> Even if it's more like config files
<zequence-work> Dev change anyway
<cub> hehe, still worth celebrating. I bought icecream.
<smartboyhw> cub, LOL
 * smartboyhw ate icecream 1 hour ago
<zequence-work> luckily I don't like ice cream
<zequence-work> So, only tea and cookies for me
<zequence-work> DarkEra: Hi
<DarkEra> hi there zequence-work
<smartboyhw> Hey DarkEra 
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, ice creams are great:
<smartboyhw> ;)
<DarkEra> hi smartboyhw
<zequence-work> So is tea and cookies
 * smartboyhw likes cookies but not western tea
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, drink Chinese and Japanese tea:P
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: I had some green tea today, but not from leaves. Just from bags
<zequence-work> I used to drink lots of green tea in the past
<zequence-work> The Chinese kind
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, good:)
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, welcome:)
<DarkEra> smartboyhw: hmm?
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, welcome I sayu
<smartboyhw> *say
<DarkEra> welcome to what? lol
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, th the channel:)
<DarkEra> i already said hi before but then again... thanks buddy :)
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, http://smartboyhwubuntu.wordpress.com/2013/08/26/happy-22nd-birthday-linux/
<smartboyhw> cub, ^
<cub> Yup, I read his biography this summer. I was surprised the book was already over 10 years old
<smartboyhw> cub, heh
<smartboyhw> Buy a newer edition:p
<cub> I don't think there is one?
<cub> I like the part "Iâm doing a (free) operating system". It doesn't say "I'm doing a (free) kernel". ;)
<smartboyhw> cub, that IS the original email
<cub> I know.
<zequence-work> Some would claim the kernel is the actual operating system. The terminology is not perfectly clear
<cub> yeah, that will probably be the new mac vs pc argument within the gnu/foss/floss/linux/etc communties.
<zequence-work> Going to an interview for HiQ tomorrow (thought it would be today)
<zequence-work> They were looking for a Linux guru
<cub> sweet
<zequence-work> It would really make my day if it led somewhere
<cub> is it a consulting job?
<zequence-work> Not sure yet. Something to do with Linux
<cub> yeah I meant if you know if you would work on HiQ's own things or other companies
<zequence-work> Haven't got any details at all really
<cub> maybe they both actually. :P
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, oh?
<smartboyhw> LinkedIn?
<zequence-work> Yes, it was time for an account there. Time to go home..
<cub> Is there a way to see all the ! commands for ubottu?
<smartboyhw> !list
<ubottu> smartboyhw: No warez here! This is not a file sharing channel (or network); read the channel topic. If you're looking for information about me, type Â« /msg ubottu !bot Â». If you're looking for a channel, see Â« /msg ubottu !alis Â».
<smartboyhw> OUCH
<smartboyhw> cub, check ubottu.com
<smartboyhw> "Factoid database"
<cub> Ah, I found some other pages but they only explained how to create new factoids.
<cub> thanks
<smartboyhw> zequence, do we have any intention to update our ubiquity slideshow?
<smartboyhw> It seemed to be quite old, tbh
<smartboyhw> :P
<OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: waiting for new backdrops to drop...
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, ?
 * smartboyhw does wonder what happened to our artwork
<smartboyhw> Sadly madeinkobaia isn't here
<OvenWerk1> people get busy, Mish is out for a bit
<OvenWerk1>  I am glad he got the icons done though
<OvenWerk1> Ralf did one icon too
<OvenWerk1> Anyone else do art?
<OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: We tried to make our slide show have no version ref, so we have just been changing the first/last slides with the new BG
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, well, we should update it a bit I think
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Yeah, I'm waiting a bit to see if madein will show up. Since we have until interface freeze, I wasn't in a hurry to do the icons myself
<zequence> There is a new set, which is ok to use already
<zequence> but, they could be improved
<zequence> so not much work to finish it
<zequence> I think if we don't get a new wallpaper this cycle we just roll with the old one
<zequence> The important changes come with 14.04, so I'm not going to be stressed about the wallpaper this time (last time it was really getting old)
<OvenWerk1> zequence: ubutustudio-icon-theme is still in the wild and as a depends some place. I think it shouldn't matter for the menu because we have changed the name of all the menu icons anyway.
<OvenWerk1> zequence: I think it has to remain in our package becasue it has the distributer icon. However, it could have the menu icons cleaned out.
<OvenWerk1> Because it is art work we may be able to still do this after FF.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Yes, the menu icons I've gathered should go into the menu packag now
<OvenWerk1> It seems odd having an icon theme with only one icon :)
<zequence> The icon theme might see a resurrection for 14.04 with a new icon set
<OvenWerk1> They are already in tghe menu
<zequence> Doesn't matter if there's only one :)
<OvenWerk1> Ya, just seems funny :)
<OvenWerk1> Do you want me to clean it out, or leave it for a new guy?
<zequence> It's mostly just cleaning up. If you want to do it, please go ahead :).
<OvenWerk1> Right. will rebranch this afternoon.
<OvenWerk1> I have a couple of identical stereo amps... one side works on each I think... Maybe I can make one good one.
 * OvenWerk1 just fixed the stove in a simmilar way...
<knome> OvenWerk1, do you happen to have an otherwise broken camera with a working flash? ;)
<knome> i have the pairing part (working camera with broken flash)
<madeinkobaia> See you all : )
<OvenWerk1> knome: no such luck... not much of a photographer. Even so, the shipping might cost the value of any of the cameras I own ;)
<knome> hehe
<OvenWerk1> knome: how much do you know about licences?
<knome> limiting amount, but ask away
<knome> *limited
<OvenWerk1> one of our packages the debian part is licenced "GPL" in 2006. I notice that in the dirctory GPL links to GPL-3
<OvenWerk1> However, GPL-3 was introduced in 2007, so I am guessing that GPL in this case should be GPL-2?
 * OvenWerk1 is fixing up the copyright files to machine readable..
<knome> what's the package?
<OvenWerk1> Or should I leave it as "GPL" and let it poinbt at 3. This is ubuntustudio-icon-theme.
<knome> depends if the license for the application/lib in the package says "GPL2 or later" or "GPL2"
<knome> right
<knome> who are the authors for that theme?
<knome> you should consult them to check how they want to handle the license
<OvenWerk1> The theme itself is cc by sa
<OvenWerk1> all the icons are new sinse 2012
<knome> aha
<OvenWerk1> It is just the /debian directory
<knome> so why is GPL there?
<knome> if GPL isn't the license, delete the file
<OvenWerk1> Left from the original packager
<knome> or to be more exact, if nothing in the package is GPL-licensed, there's no reason for the file to be in there
<OvenWerk1> So I can just do the whole thing cc by sa then? That would be much simpler
<knome> i'd imagine so.
<knome> i don't know if debian packages itself are licensed
<OvenWerk1> So the *.deb package format itself is no licenced?
<knome> common sense says that's stupid...
<OvenWerk1> PD?
<knome> i'd check with other packagers on that
<knome> or, check packages like xubuntu-icon-theme for what that does.
<OvenWerk1> ok
<TheDrums> knome: Generally there's a Files: debian/* section.
<knome> TheDrums, yeah, but does that have a GPL file if the contents of the package isn't GPL'd?
<TheDrums> It's whatever the maintainer licenses it as, so all files under the source/debian/ dir are GPL.
<OvenWerk1> TheDrums: ok, The original question stands, If the package was originally debianized when GPL was gpl-2, do I have to make it gpl-2 or can I leave it as just gpl?
<TheDrums> I'm not good with copyright, so I can't say.
<OvenWerk1> Most of the packages are gpl-2+ for that part ...
<OvenWerk1> I think That is what I will do here, It was started as gpl2 but left open.. 
<OvenWerk1> Building and delinting...
<OvenWerk1> Should have known.. extended-description-is-probably-too-short
<OvenWerk1> we seem to do that a lot.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-08-27
<OvenWerk1> knome: turns out Both amps work just fine... which means they have had time to really cool down... Going to have to run them both enough to cycle the temperature.
<OvenWerk1> way more power than what I was using for monitoring before.
<knome> :)
<knome> nice
<OvenWerk1> I can listen in _any_ part of the house I like :P Maybe a bit much
<micahg> OvenWerk1: is anything needed from me?
<OvenWerk1> As soon as I push ubuntustudio-icon-theme it can be uploaded, but it is not urgent.
<OvenWerk1> It does not have to be changed to work with everything, just cleanup
<OvenWerk1> micahg: it has been pushed, But like I say, it is not urgent.
<micahg> I'll see if it's easy
<micahg> does -menu have a proper replaces on -icon-theme?
<OvenWerk1> The icon theme is still uused
<OvenWerk1> Also the old icons and the new have different names
<micahg> ah, ok
<micahg> nothing needed then
<micahg> uploaded
<OvenWerk1> micahg: Thank you.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: The icon theme only has the CoF now, right? The license should probably be derived from the Ubuntu CoF
<zequence> and we still don't know who created the Ubuntu Studio version
<zequence> And that's only for the CoF
<zequence> If we get more icons, those should have their own license
<OvenWerk1> zequence: there are two more in there for some applications that don't come with their own (hexter and one of the sound card controlers)
<OvenWerk1> I have left the copyrights pretty much as is. Scott had labled the COF as cc-sa 2.5. The I put together are the same. The debiam directory has been left as gpl2+. I don't know if that should be changed
<OvenWerk1> But that was the way it was already listed.
<zequence> Ah, ok
<zequence> OvenWerk1: We should probably create a policy for licenses when it concerns the debian dir
<OvenWerk1> zequence: I think most of the "debianizing" lic are gpl2+
<OvenWerk1> But I don't know if the *.deb package is actually licenced or how as a container itself.
<OvenWerk1> It is supposed to be able to hold packages of various lic, inc, prop.
<OvenWerk1> It may effectively be PD.
<zequence> Don't have the time to check now, but I'd look through here http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
<zequence> What's PD? 
<OvenWerk1> public domain
<OvenWerk1> It is a standard.
<smartboyhw> Welcome cub 
<cub> thank you smartboyhw and good morning. :D
<cub> I saw that Planet Ubuntu tweeted your blog post
<smartboyhw> cub, well, if you are an Ubuntu member you can post to Planet Ubuntu
<smartboyhw> (And I can post to Planet KDE too)
<cub> aha
<smartboyhw> ttoine, hello, when can we officially announce the store?
<ttoine> smartboyhw, sure
<smartboyhw> ttoine, sure?
<ttoine> but it's up to zequence  to take the decision
<smartboyhw> ttoine, OK:)
<ttoine> now, he has all the elements
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, ttoine says the store is ready to be announced
<ttoine> smartboyhw, for me it has always been ;-)
<smartboyhw> So, should we announce it?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, LOL
<cub> there was a discussion about..a week ago? Check the logs
<zequence-work> I've just been busy the last weeks. Exams, debconf, etc
<zequence-work> I'll create a page for it within the week
<cub> hey zequence-work when is the interview today?
<zequence-work> At 15.00
<cub> wear your ubuntu studio t-shirt. ;)
<smartboyhw> cub, no, wear one with Linux logo:)
<ttoine> no
<smartboyhw> ttoine, ?
<ttoine> It would be nice to wear to Ubuntu Studio stuff
<ttoine> it will introduce the shop
<smartboyhw> ttoine, I'm afraid the interviewer won't even know what's Ubuntu Studio:P Maybe wear a Linux T-shirt and bring along a mug:P
<ttoine> smartboyhw, what kind of interview it is ?
<ttoine> smartboyhw, the interviewer will asks what the shirt is about
<smartboyhw> ttoine, Linux job interview:)
<ttoine> for a job ??
<ttoine> ouch
<smartboyhw> Well, at least wearing the T-shirt does show zequence-work's Linux geekiness
<ttoine> but maybe they don't look for a geek ;-)
<smartboyhw> ttoine, that, I don't know:-)
<ttoine> at my work, not all developpers are geeks ;-)
<ttoine> but most of them eat Java and Linux at breakfast
<smartboyhw> ttoine, eat!>
<smartboyhw> ?
<smartboyhw> -.-
<zequence-work> They are looking for Linux people, and probably they know what Ubuntu is. I find that many do, but they don't often know Ubuntu Studio
<zequence-work> Musicians who use Ubuntu are usually the ones most likely to know Ubuntu Studio
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, so, wear a Ubuntu T-shirt?
<smartboyhw> And bring your Ubuntu member cert?
<cub> To work for HiQ I think the way to go is shirt and perhaps even a suit.
<cub> and then have a geeky CV
<zequence-work> I have my pure data t-shirt on. Suits and shirts will have to wait for later :P
<cub> zequence-work, I hit a snag with my create-several-test-partitions-project
<cub> stupid windows already have created 3 primary partitions, Ubuntu Studio 12.04 on the fourth. Doh!
<zequence-work> cub: Should be enough I think
<cub> anyone used partimage?
<zequence-work> just use logical volumes
<zequence-work> not me
<cub> zequence-work, sadly no. I can't do anything with my free space.
<zequence-work> Newer partition tables don't have these limitations
<zequence-work> Would be time to start using those :P
<cub> I shrinked the windows OS partition and got 100 GB left over. But it's outside of the Ubuntu one
<cub> zequence-work, how can I do that?
<ttoine> smartboyhw, it is an american sentence. If you look at the Pixar movie "Cars", at the beggining, McQueen says "I eat loosers at breakfast" ;-)
<ttoine> To work for HiQ I think the way to go is shirt and perhaps even a suit. -> I agree with Cub
<ttoine> But what I do know, is calling the company before the interview and ask about the dress code
<ttoine> zequence, I get my job as a community manager for I put a lot of details on what I do/did for free and open source software on my resume / CV
<ttoine> don't forget that this is valuable experience ;-)
<ttoine> cub, did you tried gparted ? I did something like that previous week on my laptop
<ttoine> gparted even reconfigure grub
<ttoine> zequence, ?
<cub> ttoine, I could only find options in gparted to make a copy to another disk. I needed an iso file.
<ttoine> cub, could you tell me what do you try to do ? sometimes, gparted is a bit tricky, you have to carefully respect steps
<cub> My HDD was set in 4 partitions: win-recover, win-boot, win-OS and Ubuntu 12.04
<cub> I free up 100 GB from the win-os partitino
<cub> to be able to use it to install saucy. But since there already were 4 primary partitions I couldn't do that. So I wanted to make a copy of the recovery partition in case my burnt dvds go corrupt in the future
<cub> partimage seems to have done the job. Well, I have not done a restore test but...
<cub> Now I'm a bit concerned that I could only make the free 100 GB as a primary partition. I'll see if I can divide it up when installing.
<cub> perhaps you can't have two Extended partitions..*sigh
<smartboyhw> ttoine, :O
 * smartboyhw watched Cars many times and don't know about this
<ttoine> cub, sure you can
<ttoine> cub, you don't have any swap ??
<ttoine> cub, first, delete win partition. It should be free non allocated space. then, move the ubuntu partition at the beginning of the disk. you can do that with gparted, with a live cd/usb (the ubuntu partition must not be mounted)
<ttoine> then, the free space will be after the usb partition
<ttoine> and you will be able to create a new logic partition. you can create up to 3 or 4 primary partitions, including master logical partitions
<ttoine> once done, you can create a lot of new partitions in the logical partition
<ttoine> in gparted, to create logical partition, you must first create a "extended" partition. thats what I called the master logical partition, sorry for the mistake
<ttoine> I did that last week from a live cd, and it worked great. this is a bit long to apply.
<cub> ttoine, the Ubuntu partition is an extended partition which include three logical partitions: / /home and swap
<ttoine> cub, ok. exactly like my pc
<ttoine> the ubuntu extended partition is before or after the current 100 gb free space ?
<cub> after
<cub> !paste
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<ttoine> in gparted, you can move the partition at the beginning of the disk
<cub> ttoine, http://imagebin.org/268878
<ttoine> ok
<ttoine> did you take this picture from a live cd, cub ?
<cub> but to do that it will move around the data on the win OS partition as well? /dev/sda3
<cub> no that's from inside my 12.04 instllation.
<ttoine> that is the proble
<ttoine> m
<cub> I'm not trying to change anything yet.
<ttoine> to move your ubuntu extended partitions, they have to be unmounted. it means you have to use gparted on a live cd
<cub> yes.
<cub> but before I do anything like that I need to confirm whether it will move data on /dev/sda3
<cub> because I've read too many storys on the net of gparted screwing up ntfs and win os partitions
<ttoine> cub, what I would do
<ttoine> use the first 14Gb as swap.
<ttoine> don't touch ntfs partitions.
<ttoine> move ubuntu extended partition next to ntfs ones
<ttoine> then, the 100gb are at the end.
<ttoine> and then, you can add the free space to the extended partition, and create more logical partitions.
<ttoine> I need to go
<cub> that sounds like a plan!
<ttoine> yep
<cub> thanks. I'll get it running during lunch. What could POSSIBLY go wrong?! :P
<ttoine> cub, if you don't touch ntfs, all should be right
<ttoine> the only wreong stuff is electricity shutdown during the moving process
<cub> hehe
<cub> I need to read up on how to tell my US to change swap
<ttoine> cub, you don't have to do anything
<ttoine> linux use swap automatically
<ttoine> if available
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, do we have any package that's left to be uploaded?
<cub> aha, I did a swapon anyhow, looked fine. :)
<cub> it's moving the 250 gig part right now, 3 hours and counting
<smartboyhw> cub, 3 HOURS?
<smartboyhw> :O
<cub> yup and it's not done yet
<cub> the disk was full so a lot of things to move
<zequence> ttoine: Yes, I added FLOSS work on my CV, as that's mostly what I have to offer :P
<smartboyhw> zequence, heh, you are about to have your interview now is it?
<zequence> Going there a second time for a second interview next week
<ttoine> zequence, well done !
<zequence> So, story is not over yet
<zequence> Would be great to get that job
<zequence> Let's see next week :)
<ttoine> zequence, don't forget to check with them that there no problem for them to let you continue to be involved in Ubuntu Studio
<zequence> ttoine: I'm pretty sure that will be fine
<zequence> They run ubuntu over there
<zequence> On many of their machines
<ttoine> in some case, in your contract it is written that you can't do the same for your hobbies
<ttoine> zequence, for my job, I had to ask for a written confirmation
<zequence> hmm, well, they are pretty easy to get along with, so I'm sure it will be fine
<zequence> but, that's a good thing to consider
<zequence> I'll ask about it next time
<ttoine> zequence, it is always better to check that before beginning the job
<ttoine> if for any reason your boss come to you and say there is a problem, having a document is better than nothing
<OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: I have had all the uploads done I need. I am just waiting for them to get into the wild.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, good:)
<smartboyhw> That's better than Xubuntu currently:P
<OvenWerk1> 4 uploads :)
<zequence> I'll do that :). Now, time to go cycling. About 80km today :P
<ttoine> OvenWerk1, I hope it will not be blocked by a spring river
<OvenWerk1> some of xubuntu's stuff will affect us I think. catfish is waiting to go.
<smartboyhw> zequence, STAY for vUDS please;P
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, micahg will be doing uploads today I heard
<OvenWerk1> thas the plan.
<zequence> smartboyhw: What do you mean? Which vUDS? This one?
<smartboyhw> zequence, this one
<zequence> We don't have any sessions planned
<zequence> I personally don't know of anything that would be important for us at this time
<smartboyhw> zequence, testing?
<zequence> However, I think we should do a proper meeting with all our members around next vUDS, and preferably do a session out of it
<zequence> 14.04 just has to be great. That's all I'm thinking about right now :)
<smartboyhw> zequence, :)
<zequence> OvenWerk1 has done a lot of great work for 13.10, so much credit to him. It really has moved things forward a bit
<zequence> And of course, everything else. We shouldn't forget the webshop either, done by ttoine 
<smartboyhw> Ye[
<smartboyhw> *Yep
<OvenWerk1> Just having more people interested in contributing is a big plus.
<smartboyhw> zequence, you can write a memoir:P
<smartboyhw> (On your blog ofc)
<zequence> I've been really busy just moving forward in my personal life, that it has been hard for me to do any proper work for a while. I've done a lot of stuff, but not much that shows
<smartboyhw> Well, OvenWerk1 is the certain person we should clap clap on
<zequence> We need to reorganize our planning, blueprints, teams and projects a bit
<smartboyhw> zequence, how are you planning to?
<smartboyhw> We almost do that every cycle:P
<zequence> Well, I based the planning on previous work. This year will be different
<zequence> Documentation needs a bit of push, and we need to hunt for more contributors again
<zequence> I only got full control of all projects and groups quite recently
<zequence> Next step is to make sure at least one more person has that too
<smartboyhw> zequence, I recommend OvenWerk1 
<smartboyhw> :)
<zequence> Yes, he is the obvious choice
<smartboyhw> zequence, Google doesn't allow me to join vUDS Hangouts because I'm under 18...
<smartboyhw> -.-
<zequence> That's pretty silly
<smartboyhw> zequence, +1
 * smartboyhw writes an complaint letter to Google about this
<zequence> It will probably be read by an Android too
<zequence> Ok, gotta go. bb this evening for a bit, and then tomorrow again. I might have some time to work tomorrow
<smartboyhw> zequence, http://smartboyhwubuntu.wordpress.com/2013/08/27/google-please-let-me-join-vuds/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-08-28
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: Should we update the Plymouth theme if madeinkobaia will be doing a new wallpaper?
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: We'll probably be updating all of our art
<zequence-work> The CoF, and therefore anything that has it
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: whoa, sure
<smartboyhw> What? We are updaating the CoF?
<zequence-work> For 14.04 that is
<zequence-work> For now, we just roll with what we have - madeinkobaia might have time for a WP for this release, but if he hasn't, there's no sweat
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, OK....
<cub> I chatted with madeinkobaia, maybe a couple of weeks ago, and it sounded that he was hoping to finish a new WP fÃ¶r 13.10 that could be used for the G+, web and in my case the Youtube tutorials.
<DarkEra> he's kinda busy he told me in a mail
<cub> yup
<cub> OvenWerk1, is the new installer up on the daily build for Saucy? I downloaded yesterday and installed and thought it would be much different, but it was mostly straightforward. With the exception of two screen of Ubuntu One (even though I had marked that I didn't have an internet connection :P )
<cub> And in Grub it was called "Ubuntu" only.
<cub> While my previous, main OS was changed (unrelated to saucy installation though) to "Ubuntu 12.04.3 LTS (12.04)" That was a nice touch.
<cub> ttoine, your gparted strategy worked out perfectly. :)
<ttoine> cub, hehe
<ttoine> I am a gparted master ;-)
<cub> It took the whole day with a very buzzing cpu fan, but finally I got where it should be
<ttoine> yes, it tool times. sometimes, it is frightening
<cub> gparted, Tetris for the adventurous
<ttoine> it is always good to back up data, before
<cub> oh yeah. I have three. and Dropbox. And Bitcasa.
<cub> And I'm still nervous each time. :D
<cub> one concern I have now is that the power supply to one of my backup drives have failed. :/
<cub> 500 GB of precious data unavailble.
<ttoine> f..k
<ttoine> buy a new box
<cub> I hope to be able to buy a new power supply. If not, try to hook it up in another computer. I only have laptops myself.
<OvenWerk1> cub: There are four new packages uploaded, but they are still in proposed and have yet to make it to the wild. They are waiting for -installer to make it out of NEW.
<cub> I guessed that was the case.
<cub> Will that clean up my grub? ;)
<OvenWerk1> I will anounce when they are out. IN the mean time our ISO didn't build yesterdaqy
<cub> mm I saw. Any idea why?
<OvenWerk1> Yes the new settings has two grub fixes
<OvenWerk1> I can never remember where the build logs are kept.
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, we ARE participating in Saucy Beta 1 right?
<smartboyhw> (Don't tell me we aren't...)
<cub> So, what happens after FF tomorrow? Is it business as usual or do we have a certain plan for testing and bug fixing until 13.10 launch?
<knome> smartboyhw, i thought you were the release manager deciding on that.
<smartboyhw> knome, final discretion at zequence-work 
<knome> smartboyhw, i didn't sense any discretion from your side... :P
<smartboyhw> knome, well I want to participate
<smartboyhw> Just confirming
<smartboyhw> We did talk about that before and it's a yes, but just want to confirm;)
<smartboyhw> cub, we will test Beta 1, fix all bugs before Beta 2. Beta 2 should be as close as RC status (even it technically isn't
<smartboyhw> That's the schedule, at least
<OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: +1
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, up so early huh?
<cub> smartboyhw, yeah, I was thinking of in more detail. Like a project plan with tasks, but I'm a bit damage from my daily work. ;)
<smartboyhw> cub, well, zequence (and probably OvenWerk1) will start the planning process for 14.04 LTS when they see fit:)
<cub> smartboyhw, 14.04 is another thing. I was wondering about from tomorrow until the launch of 13.10. So we don't run all tests in panic the night before release.
<smartboyhw> cub, uh hum, test the daily now please
<smartboyhw> (I do get reports that ubiquity is failing in other distros_)
<cub> Just did. ;) Installed this morning.
<smartboyhw> cub, how's it?
<cub> working fine. Though, I downloaded yesterday. hmm. 
<cub> but yeah, the build failed tonight.
<smartboyhw> cub, yeah:(
<OvenWerk1> However our beta 1 needs All our packages out into the wild.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, I will send the email with reminders to get packages out of NEW after zequence-work confirms Beta 1 participation
<cub> OvenWerk1, are the packages waiting for review?
<smartboyhw> cub, yes
<OvenWerk1> They are in the que, but so are a lot of packages :)
<smartboyhw> The review must be done by an archive admin
<OvenWerk1> I was told maybe a week.
<smartboyhw> Which, nobody in the Xubuntu or Ubuntu Studio-related teams is:P
<cub> aha
<OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: when is beta 1?
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, next Thurs
<cub> Did anyone tune in on the vUDS yesterday? (I know smartboyhw didn't ;) 
<OvenWerk1> nope
<smartboyhw> cub, yep, you know I didn't.
<cub> hehe
<smartboyhw> My blog post infuriated a lot of comments, lOL
<cub> I listened to the keynote with Jono and Mark quite good but nothing revolutionary
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: Yes. We're participating :)
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, :)
<smartboyhw> cub, OvenWerk1, zequence-work seemingly an archive admin (Riddell) wants to review the Ubuntu studio packages:)
<cub> Is that good or bad?
<smartboyhw> cub, of course it's good
<smartboyhw> That means it probably will go in faster:)
<cub> sweet
<OvenWerk1> Installer is into proposed :)
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, although actually, Riddell doesn't understand why on Earth we need that package:P
<OvenWerk1> Most people don't... tunnel vision.
<OvenWerk1> The idea of supporting more than one flavour without dragging in tones of libs is not in most people think
<OvenWerk1> USC does the same job after all.
<OvenWerk1> Can you imagine a user who has installed lubuntu not being upset at USC showing up?
<OvenWerk1> (or KDE for that matter)
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, Lubuntu has their own Software Center
<cub> was a discussion similar to that topic just yesterday in the #ubuntustudio
<OvenWerk1> LSC does not take CL arguments, I looked at it.
<cub> well not on the installer but on "I don't want to run ubuntu studio because the USC showed things that costs money". :) holstein did a great job explaining everything
<smartboyhw> cub, ;)
<OvenWerk1> Also, to use a different installer for each DE means checking what is there and running it, much more work than just writng new software.
<cub> My favorite quote: "holstein: not usuing ubuntu because there is commercial software in the software center is a bit like not shopping at a grocery store becuase they sell cigarettes"
<zequence-work> I'd like everyones opinion now. Is this ok? http://ubuntustudio.org/merchandise/
<zequence-work> OvenWerk1: smartboyhw: ttoine: cub: astraljava: holstein: (and anyone else interested)
<OvenWerk1> zequence-work: Looks good to me. I like the bottom mug
 * OvenWerk1 wants stickers :)
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, ack
<smartboyhw> zequence-work ^
<smartboyhw> We need to announce it though
<zequence-work> OvenWerk1: Right. What was that place again? Unix stickers something
<cub> Nice zequence-work 
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: Yes, once it is decided it's ready for release. That's why I'm asking for opinions BEFORE I announce it
<cub> http://www.unixstickers.com/
<OvenWerk1> I think "Conditions for this license is" is should are or the s should come off Conditions.
<zequence-work> ttoine: If you have some time in the future, perhaps you could take a look at that? Other flavors are using that, and we should too, I think.
<OvenWerk1> zequence-work: ^^
<zequence-work> OvenWerk1: Right. There are more conditions, I guess. But that one is the only one relevant to our users - I was going to write down more otherwise
<zequence-work> Good catch
<zequence-work> Changing it to "A condition.."
<cub> The dark grey shirt with all white print looks really nice too. No issue with the quality there.
 * cub is actually wearing an Ubuntu Studio t-shirt right now..:*)
<zequence-work> People are free to try more examples, but those are specifically designed by us
<zequence-work> It's kind of cool to have the freedom to mix different colors
<cub> Stallman would be happy. ;)
<smartboyhw> cub, LOL
<ttoine> zequence-work, nice work on wordpress
<ttoine> zequence, for the stickers, I am already looking at way to do it
<ttoine> OvenWerk1, thanks for the link
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, knome it would be good if we can update the copyright line at the pageend
<smartboyhw> It's still 2012
<OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: I missed tha somehow :P
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, LOL
<OvenWerk1> I did actually read that line too.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, OK
<smartboyhw> I actually read the line you talked abuot too
<zequence-work> The website was created in 2012, so I think that's fine
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, but the contents aren't
<smartboyhw> (Not all at least)
<knome> it's trivial to change, but you'll need to get IS upload a new version of the theme (iirc the year is hardcoded to the theme)
<smartboyhw> knome, OK, that's unexpected
<smartboyhw> Well, IS would probably ignore the request till 2014.....
<knome> is it part of the asian culture to have such a negative view on things? i thought it was the western state of mind.
<smartboyhw> knome, OK, I'm pessimistic:P
<zequence-work> I'm getting thrown out from here. I'll make the announcements tonight, when I get home. 
<knome> i agree that IS have not always delivered stuff on time (yes, we waited for a subdomain redirection for 2+ years), but that doesn't warrant mocking them up. they have been getting better and if you work with them and give them any information they need, they are ok
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, thrown off?
<smartboyhw> *thrown out
<OvenWerk1> made sense to me.
<smartboyhw> knome, so, can you do the change?
<smartboyhw> I can do the ticket filing
<knome> smartboyhw, okay.
<cub> IS?
<smartboyhw> cub, Canonical Internet Services
<smartboyhw> They manage all of Ubuntu and their flavours' webserver
<cub> ok
<smartboyhw> So, such changes need to go through them to implement
<smartboyhw> cub, you are learning one new thing per day:{
<smartboyhw> :{P
<cub> at least!
<smartboyhw> OUCH
<smartboyhw> :P
<cub> it's my life mission. Learn something new each day.
<smartboyhw> cub, want to learn packaging?:P
<smartboyhw> I can give you a pretty haunting experience;P
<cub> yes, but that have to wait until tomorrow. I've filled my learning quota for today. ;)
<smartboyhw> cub, well, that at least takes 2-3 days
<cub> knome, so even though it's based on wordpress zequence can't change the theme himself?
<smartboyhw> cub, he can
<knome> cub, the year is hardcoded in the theme.
<smartboyhw> But, the implementation is done through IS
<knome> cub, we can make it dynamic, but i don't see any reason to do so
<smartboyhw> knome, less maintenance/
<knome> smartboyhw, it's a one-off change to add the dash.
<cub> I don't follow. Let's say we design a new theme. It needs to be sent to IS to arrive on the site?
<smartboyhw> cub, yes.
<smartboyhw> WE MUST
<knome> smartboyhw, and you could argue it's more maintenance because you have to make sure the code pulling it dynamically from the database needs to be maintained
<smartboyhw> knome, oh, OK then
<smartboyhw> But anyways knome plz do the change and I can bug IS:P
<knome> i'm on it
<cub> but...it's wordpress. Wouldn't it be dead simple to allow each webmaster to set whatever theme they like?
<knome> smartboyhw, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-resources/website-wordpress/revision/10
<smartboyhw> knome, thanks
<knome> cub, yes, but the themes need to be installed on the server.
<smartboyhw> Which IS controls
<knome> cub, and if you want to change them, the theme files need to be changed.
<cub> which you can do in the admin interface in a standard WP installation.
<knome> cub, only IS has file access to those production servers
<cub> Ok
<knome> cub, yes, if the user running the webserver has the access to file system, which is disabled on canonical servers
<knome> cub, so no, there is no workaround, all code/themes need to go through IS so they can do their security review and what not.
<OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: I am just going through the blu prints and notice meantion of the xfce logo in the installer.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, em?
<OvenWerk1> Is that still a problem? I thought it was fixed in R
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, no (Not in S)
<smartboyhw> WEIRD
<OvenWerk1> I am just wondering if the blueprint item was carried over but should have been "DONE"ed
 * smartboyhw goes over why the build failed today
<OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: thankyou
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, jeez, it's catfish
<OvenWerk1> OK new catfish coming.
<OvenWerk1> xubuntu will have the same issue.
<cub> aha. I removed catfish on my other saucy yesterday because of all trouble. :D
 * smartboyhw restarts a build to check
 * OvenWerk1 needs another monitor...
 * knome monitors OvenWerk1 
<OvenWerk1> :)
<OvenWerk1> knome I am sharing one monitor with two computers right now
<knome> that sounds like you need (at least) 3 new monitors
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, good, help test Mir's new multi-monitor feature, we need you;)
<OvenWerk1> The penny jar doesn't even cover one...
 * knome pops in a penny
 * OvenWerk1 will probably get a ubuntustudio mug first
 * knome pops in another penny for that
<smartboyhw> knome, give me $10million USD now:P
<smartboyhw> (Since you seem to be so generous)
 * knome slaps smartboyhw 
<OvenWerk1> Harder :)
 * smartboyhw lands right on knome 
<OvenWerk1> excess money seems to be a ruiner of people...
<knome> that's not a hard task, there's a lot of surface to land on
<OvenWerk1> :)
<knome> yeah, it's usually the poorest who give the most (at least by percentage)
<smartboyhw> knome, zequence Canonical IS completed the work! (I pinged somebody in #canonical-sysadmin and that did the trick)
<smartboyhw> Hey madeinkobaia :)
<smartboyhw> We finally get to see you:P
<madeinkobaia> Hey smartboyhw : )
<madeinkobaia> Yep :P
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, so, are you gonna make a 13.10 wallpaper for us?
<smartboyhw> (Just asking, no pressure)
<smartboyhw> If you can't do it, we will just ship with what's in here now
<madeinkobaia> Normally I will create 2 wallpaper. One minimal, with a simple design, and one more "arty". Then we will decide witch one could be usable as default for the 13.10.
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, just to remind you: UserInterfaceFreeze is on September 19th
<madeinkobaia> Yes I know that ;)
 * smartboyhw would suggest to hold a artwork contest next cycle
<smartboyhw> The wallpapers in our G+ community is awesome
<madeinkobaia> The wallpaper contest is a good idea. I think it is already planned for the 14.04. About witch wp in particular you're talking about ?
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, all, tbh
<smartboyhw> ALL ARE GREAT WORK:P
<smartboyhw> (because I certainly can't make one of these)
<madeinkobaia> Ok ;p
<cub> hehe smartboyhc's blog was discussed in the Community Roundtable
<zequence> cub: Cool
<cub> spent 15 minutes talking about G hangout and alternatives
<madeinkobaia> See you all : )
<OvenWerk1> Yahoo! ubuntustudio-installer, ubuntustudio-menu, ubuntustudio-default-settings and ubuntustudio-icon-theme are all updated to the wild.
<knome> :)
<knome> congrats
<OvenWerk1> All we need is a respin.
<OvenWerk1> (tomorrow is fine
 * OvenWerk1 is also happy to have a console working on his new MB
<zequence> Just finished the announcement for the merchandise http://ubuntustudio.org/2013/08/ubuntu-studio-merchandise/
<OvenWerk1> Ok, that one is (c) 2011. I think we went the wrong way
<OvenWerk1> The photo looks squashed on my screen though.
<knome> OvenWerk1, no, i changed it to 2011 (that was in html <meta>)
<knome> the photo looks fine to me
<OvenWerk1> knome: must be rekonq then. The desktop has round icons...
<knome> desktop? :)
<knome> was referring to http://ubuntustudio.org/2013/08/ubuntu-studio-merchandise/...
<OvenWerk1> Ya, its the browser, FF is fine... 
<OvenWerk1> WHat I was saying is that the desktop itself has round not squashed cirecles.
<OvenWerk1> *circles
<knome> heh
<OvenWerk1> In fact, now that I look at it, The rest of that page is correct, it is just the way the browsers reder the photo. weird
<knome> was wondering if you thought kaj's shirt was a desktop...
<OvenWerk1> Na, I would like a nicer backdrop :P
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-08-29
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, you have made the longest debian/changelog I have ever seen with ubuntustudio-menu (0.16)
<knome> just a heads up for all the US team, we're about to pull in xfce4-settings from 4.11
<knome> zequence, OvenWerk1, holstein: ^
<knome> (smartboyhow ack'd in #xubuntu-devel, so we're going ahead)
<smartboyhw> ^ I don't think it can be very worse to pull in^
<knome> the new modules are xkb and display (which is why xubuntu mostly wants it in)
<OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: Ya, there is a lot there, normally there are more uploads in the middle.
<OvenWerk1> I guess I was on a roll :)
<zequence> smartboyhw: You probably haven't seen kernel changelogs then
<zequence> and the one that probably beats the record is the lowlatency that was updated last year, after not having been updated for many months
<zequence> that changelog was like a small book
<smartboyhw> zequence, I know kernel changelogs are long
<smartboyhw> But, for a normal package, OvenWerk1's one is REAL long
<cub> Good morning zequence-work! Nice updates on the social media about the shop.
<cub> Just a note, on http://ubuntustudio.org/2013/08/ubuntu-studio-merchandise/ is ttoine's nick mispelled. "toine"
<smartboyhw> cub, HEH
 * smartboyhw changes
<cub> aha so you have access too smartboyhw ?
<smartboyhw> cub, for content yes
<smartboyhw> For themes, NO
<cub> great
<smartboyhw> cub, so, what did the guys make out from the Community Roundtable
<smartboyhw> cub, updated
<cub> tl;dr : google hangout is the best alternative at the moment. It is sad that they put the age thing in there but as a comprimise everyone can watch the live session and participate through IRC, even though you can't be on camera yourself.
<cub> it was quite good, you should listen to it.
<cub> the alternatives as of today is either too crappy or too expensive, but they will keep a lookout for better apps ongoing
<zequence-work> cub: Morning :)
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: See my explanation of why OvenWerk1's changelog is long (excluding kernels)
<smartboyhw> :P
 * cub is reading the irc logs
<cub> Are we going to run xfce 4.11 as well now that Xubuntu have decided to include it for 13.10?
<knome> wrong.
<cub> hmm or perhaps it was only the xfce4-settings
<knome> we're including a part of it
<smartboyhw> cub, xfce4-settings that is
<cub> right
<knome> and yes, that will affect you
<cub> I read it again. :)
<knome> we will also upload stuff that enables you to run gtk3 indicators on gtk2 panel, so that too
<knome> (that'll actually bring some of the lost functionality back)
<cub> Will it? Because when I discussed something else with OvenWerk1 I understood it as we didn't pull exactly from xubuntu?
<cub> I could have got it wrong though.
<knome> i would argue that it will affect you as well, but it's possible it doesn't
<knome> in that case you'd have to maintain the gtk2 indicators yourself though...
<cub> yeah I have no idea, I'm the new guy. ;)
<knome> heh
<knome> oops, wrong chan
<smartboyhw> knome, why is that wrong chan?
<cub> it made sense to me. :D
<knome> smartboyhw, "heh" was meant to go to a different channel.
<smartboyhw> knome, ah
<smartboyhw> knome, heh for you:P
<cub> Is there one-page-to-rule-them-all that show all the dates for beta1/2/etc, RC, document freeze and so on?
<smartboyhw> cub, yes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<smartboyhw> Actually, we have our own version
<knome> yes, that's the "type 're' in firefox location bar and hit enter"
<smartboyhw> with better explanations of everything
<cub> smartboyhw, thanks, I knew I had seen it somewhere. the search function on the wiki doesn't like me.
<smartboyhw> cub, heh
<knome> smartboyhw, wouldn't say "better", just more verbose and more US-centric
<smartboyhw> knome, yeah
<cub> This ubuntu single-sign-on is more like sign-on-twenty-times-on-the-same-page
<smartboyhw> cub, LOL
<cub> or every time you click to the next page.
 * cub needs more coffee.
<smartboyhw> ttoine, so, the announcement was out!
<ttoine> smartboyhw, ah ? on the website ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, yep
<ttoine> great !
<smartboyhw> cub, so, what do you want to learn today?
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: Here's a suggestion to introduce our team: Make everyone wear the Ubuntu Studio and take a photo, then photoshop them together:P
<knome> yes, i support the photoshopping part
<smartboyhw> knome, LOL
<smartboyhw> (Of course, we will use free software rather than photoshop)
<knome> i'd also like to see smartboyhw "wearing ubuntu studio"
<smartboyhw> knome, if you give me your project's some of the 250 Euros to buy it;P
<cub> smartboyhw, I already learnt where to find the release calendars
<smartboyhw> cub, eh, OK, that's a bit trivialP
<smartboyhw> :P
 * knome slaps smartboyhw 
<cub> And I read the release processes on my way to work.
<knome> stop being greedy :P
<knome> also, you missed my point
<smartboyhw> knome, sorry, we Chinese are VERY greedy:P
<smartboyhw> knome, why?
<knome> because i said i'd like to see you *wear* *ubuntu studio* (the abstract product, not a shirt, because you didn't specify people should wear a shirt, but "the ubuntu studio"...)
<cub> smartboyhw, I also hope to learn how to make gnome-orca 3.9 work in Saucy with xfce 4.10.
<smartboyhw> knome, my fault:P
<smartboyhw> the Ubuntu studio -> the Ubuntu Studio T-shirts
<smartboyhw> cub, it will be difficult, since GNOME is not as the same base as Xfce:)
<knome> smartboyhw, i know.. that's why i clinged to it :P
<smartboyhw> knome, OK, I'm not expecting a debate happening
<knome> me neither
<cub> Yes, it's a bit tricky but Xfce release notes said to include more accessibility and people on Arch have got it working.
<smartboyhw> LOL
<smartboyhw> cub, well, copy the work from Arch!?
<cub> though on previous versions of orca
<smartboyhw> cub, ok
<cub> yup, I have two different walkthroughs on how it was done on Arch with xfce. hopefully I get it to work in my US
<cub> After that I need to be able to replicate those steps on the live session, with my eyes closed .....
<smartboyhw> cub, ah, you should come to Dialogue in the Dark:P
<cub> the what now? :D
<smartboyhw> That's a place to make normal people experience blindness
<smartboyhw> How blind people live
<cub> ah right. There is, or was, a restaurant like that in Stockholm
<smartboyhw> cub, oh
<smartboyhw> cub, http://www.dialogue-in-the-dark.hk/web/?lang=en
<cub> then when I started to work at the centre for visually impaired we had to go blindfolded fÃ¶r half a day as part of the introduction to the work place. :P
<smartboyhw> cub, oh
<knome> you got to remember that "visually impaired" doesn't imply "blind" though
<smartboyhw> For us, it's to make us learn how to communicate with blind people (since we have blind people in our class last year)
<cub> I know, that's why I try to say and write visually impaired instead of blind.
<smartboyhw> cub, well, for us it's OK to do visually impaired = blind
<smartboyhw> In formal situations I will be using the first option
<smartboyhw> But as knome said, this is smalltalk:P
<cub> but small talk that is logged on the internet. So I stay with VI.
<smartboyhw> cub, eh
<knome> visually impaired is far from blind, so one could argue about that...
<cub> well no
<cub> visually impaired can be a quite wide range from "normal" sight to blind
<smartboyhw> yep
 * cub found that the Dinner in the Dark is still open in Stockholm
<smartboyhw> cub, oh
<smartboyhw> Heh, DiD just started a Dinner in the Dark project
<smartboyhw> http://www.dialogue-in-the-dark.hk/web/subpage.php?mid=22
<cub> Nice. My keyboard stuck when pressing ctrl+t and opened like 1024 new tabs in chromium
<smartboyhw> cub, huh
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: Yes, it would be nice to have more pictures of our team members, and with t-shirts on
<smartboyhw> cub, so, can you picture yourself wearing the shirt? ttoine ^
<cub> I already have.
<cub> but I looked stupid.
<cub> maybe that's just my look.
<smartboyhw> cub, well, just show it to us (if you permit)
<cub> I didn't have a photographer like zequence-work , so grainy iphone in the mirror shot
<smartboyhw> cub, you mean, you don't even have a camera? :O
<cub> yes, but I seldom use it anymore
<smartboyhw> cub, ok
<cub> http://sjolund.se/pix/cub_us_shirt.jpg
<smartboyhw> cub, hopefully we can get rid of that iPhone:P
<cub> haha I can take a new picture if we are going to do a team picture
<smartboyhw> If not people will think: WHAT!? Why does a open-source contributor use fully proprietary phones?:P
<cub> that image is quite compressed
<cub> oh easy, my propreitary work makes me!
<cub> I'm using a macbook as well
<smartboyhw> ......
<cub> I want a new pc to run linux again, but this one has to break before I get a new one.
<cub> and they are quite sturdy, those macbooks...
<ttoine> smartboyhw, I will order a t-shirt next week
<smartboyhw> ttoine, sure
<ttoine> I am waiting for my pay
<cub> Hbey OvenWerk1 congrats! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/CoreTeamPage
<smartboyhw> cub, well OvenWerk1 is the undisputable option
 * smartboyhw is expecting OvenWerk1 to take over zequence-work's position when zequence-work steps down one day (that will have to wait until at least 14.04)
<smartboyhw> :P
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, BTW why does the LP link point to the kernel team link!?
<smartboyhw> I mean, in the page...
 * smartboyhw fixes that
<smartboyhw> done
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, welcome to the throne
<smartboyhw> ALL HAIL OvenWerk1 and zequence-work !
<smartboyhw> LOL
<zequence-work> cub: That's a custom color, is it not? Not one of the default ones we've done
<zequence-work> the picture of your t-shirt that is
<cub> zequence-work, yeah that's the dark grey shirt
<cub> If we are to do a team pic, I will take a new picture with proper camera and wearing my white default shirt. :)
<smartboyhw> Are we?
 * smartboyhw doesn't have any money to do so
<cub> we can add the shirt to another photo of you smartboyhw ? ;)
<zequence-work> We should sponsor smartboyhw 
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: It will be great:P
<DarkEra> good morning/afternoon
<cub> zequence-work, I'm setting up a plan for myself on what to do until 13.10 launch. Since I have limited time (don't we all) I'm figuring out so I focus on the best spots. So, what would be the best parts to focus on?
<cub> Accessibility is already on my table. But other than that I'm not sure whether to focus on testing, workflows, copyright or updating documentation.
 * cub needs to grac lunch before the next work meeting
<smartboyhw> zequence, I will work on these 2 things for 14.04: 1. linux-rt (I am still waiting for you on how to fix the build error) and 2. offline doc (I will be gaining experience through my Season of KDE project about doc)
<smartboyhw> cub, suggestion: Workflows
<smartboyhw> cub, we have been talking about workflows for a long time, but we still can't manage to make it work
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, HOLY CHRIST YOUR MENU IS AWESOME
<smartboyhw> (EVEN IN KDE)
<smartboyhw> THANK YOU OvenWerk1 AND MISH 
<smartboyhw> ^ OK, too maniac, but it's true
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: <smartboyhw> zequence, I will work on these 2 things for 14.04: 1. linux-rt (I am still waiting for you on how to fix the build error) and 2. offline doc (I will be gaining experience through my Season of KDE project about doc)
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: Was just reading the logs :). That sounds great
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, um, but can you try to see why linux-rt fails?
<zequence-work> cub: I'd really like to see someone handling the package selection for our workflows
<smartboyhw> I still can't understand the reason why the control gets overwrittem
<smartboyhw> *overwritten
<zequence-work> cub: That's something that puts you close to users. And, let's you get into the system of planning, code maintaining etc, without things getting too technical
<zequence-work> cub: And let's not forget documentation
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: I can't promise when I have time to look at that, but it won't be a priority for me for a little while at least
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, OK
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, now, where did the sponsorship discussion go?:P
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: We should fix it fairly quickly in the dev cycle, so we have good time to argue for getting the kernel in and find out how we maintain it
<zequence-work> SRUs for it will be different than for generic
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, it would mean very different maintenance
<cub> zequence-work, package selection for the workflows, that ties in to the discussion we had waaay back about the use cases? Like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows/Graphics
<smartboyhw> cub, yep
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: I suggest that if you are going to sponsor my T-shirt, do it for ttoine too
<smartboyhw> (And also, ask ScottL)
<ttoine> smartboyhw, I can pay for my t-shirt, it is my birthday soon ;-)
<zequence-work> :D
<smartboyhw> ttoine, :D
 * smartboyhw thinks we should gift a birthday gift to ttoine 
<ttoine> I think I will order a shirt and the mug
<smartboyhw> An Ubuntu Studio T-shirt!
<zequence-work> The mug is awesome
<zequence-work> Such a nice feeling drinking coffee
<zequence-work> But, the t-shirts are beautiful of course.
<zequence-work> I find that people stop and look at it
<zequence-work> It's a powerful symbol
<cub> yes the mug is sweet. It dings easy though so be careful!
 * cub has already cracked his mug.
<cub> or chipped rather than cracked.
 * zequence-work kicks cub
<cub> hey I got a new one in the mail anyway since the print was off! :D
<zequence-work> Just means it's already well used
<smartboyhw> cub, uh hum
<smartboyhw> You can break the mug that early?
<cub> yes. I was about to bring new coffe and accidently dented it against a hard table.
<cub> the quality on the shirts are really nice. I also like the environmental thinking around it.
<ttoine> cub, yes, thats' why I selected this fabric quality
<ttoine> cub, what colour did you choose ?
<cub> one white with blue print and one dark grey with all white print
<cub> the dark grey is quite greenish, but looks nice
<cub> In case you missed it: <cub> zequence-work, package selection for the workflows, that ties in to the discussion we had waaay back about the use cases? Like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows/Graphics
<ttoine> cub, photo !!!!!
<cub> http://sjolund.se/pix/cub_us_shirt.jpg
<zequence-work> cub: The whole workflow bit is something that needs some love. We need some sort of structure for it, and documentation of course
<zequence-work> Scott, the previous project lead was very eager to develope that part. Myself, I've been mostly worried about low level stuff for now - not prioritizing that until later
<cub> Ok, I'll them up as my two focus areas.
<cub> +put
<zequence-work> At the end of all of our work, the workflows is the crown of all of our work
<zequence-work> So, not a bad thing to work on
<smartboyhw> Very useful indeed
<cub> no it looks like great fun.
<cub> quite a big tree to overlook though. :P
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: You know why I want to work on offline docs? Cause I get to copy from Xubuntu ones:P
<zequence-work> cub: I think the first problem is just finding out a system for package selection. How do we define what should be included, and what not?
<cub> I was just writing that as a question..haha
<zequence-work> cub: Like, if we have Qtractor, do we need Rosegarden?
<zequence-work> cub: Currently, we only provide one application for every use case
<cub> Not really?
<zequence-work> Some applications can do multiple things
<cub> yeah some overlap
<zequence-work> Ardour is chosen for audio work, but doesn't do midi
<zequence-work> And that is why we have qtractor
<zequence-work> But not Muse or Rosegarden
<zequence-work> We have one audio editor, which is Audacity. 
<zequence-work> Anyway
<cub> LMMS does midi as well no?
 * cub don't do midi.
<zequence-work> LMMS is a noob tool. That's why it's included
<zequence-work> It's an all in one
<zequence-work> With instruments and everything
<cub> I'll make sure not to mention "noob tool" in the documentation though. ;)
<zequence-work> Not only for noobs. But, let's say like this. It has builtin instruments, so you could use it just for that
 * smartboyhw starts work on offline docs
<zequence-work> And that makes it unique
<zequence-work> So, let's say we only choose one application for every use case. Which one should we choose? By popularity, right?
<zequence-work> cub: These are the questions I'd solve at first. And work out a system based on it
<zequence-work> Then start mapping out usecases and stuff
<cub> makes sense
<zequence-work> Just researching applications will probably make new usecases surface that you weren't aware even existed
<zequence-work> That also needs to be done. Just going through all the stuff that is in the repos, for multimedia content creation
<cub> yup
<zequence-work> At the end of all that, it would be nice to offer some sort of simple tools for supplying example workflows to user
<zequence-work> At least in documentation
<zequence-work> Like, for recording, mixing, etc
<cub> which in turn would make a great list for doing video tutorials.
<zequence-work> There are also software tools for that
<zequence-work> Yes
<zequence-work> ladish is a session manager, which could be used to supply workflows for users. Templates for: multi-track recording, mastering, etc
<cub> yeah I've been meaning to look into that for my own good anyhow
<zequence-work> We could script a simple tool to start these workflows.
<zequence-work> But that comes last
<zequence-work> cub: So, that's all I can think of. If you want to work on it, it's yours. 
<zequence-work> I'll always be in the background with ideas and feedback, as will anyone else interested, but I'm not going to tell you how to do it, or what to do
<zequence-work> unless your work really sucks :P
<zequence-work> but, I'm sure it won't
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: It would be great to include that :)
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: Well, it's just editing Xubuntu's work, plus our workflows
<smartboyhw> So, it's easier
<cub> zequence-work, will do. I'll focus on getting Orca to work and the workflows.
<cub> part from the iso-testing I imagine will start when the beta 1 is released
<smartboyhw> Uh hum, I need a Ubuntu Studio icon with a welcome next to it
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, ^ think you can make it yourself or do I have to ping madeinkobaia?
<smartboyhw> Guess I have to get madeinkobaia then
<smartboyhw> There are many pics
<OvenWerk1> cub: nice shirt.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, you got one?
<cub> OvenWerk1, thanks! I ordered it myself.
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, I wonder if it would be possible for us to put in the documentation for 13.10
<cub> that would mean it has to be there today right? :D
<smartboyhw> cub, NO
<cub> or until the doc-freeze?
<smartboyhw> DocumenationStringFreeze is another thing, until doc freeze. 
<smartboyhw> We will have to apply for FFe in our seeds.
<smartboyhw> Let me try...
<smartboyhw> (I mean, complete it)
<OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: I think we should start by including xubuntu's docs. At least as documentation for xfce.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, right
<smartboyhw> We need to do that TODAY
<smartboyhw> If not, FFe.
<OvenWerk1> if we alter the seeds today, tomorrows ISO (maybe even todays will have it in.
<OvenWerk1> The desktop meta would get changed whenever, but ISO runs off the seeds and the meta is not really meant for installing separate anyway.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, we need to tell micahg (after the seed change) to at least update the meta
<OvenWerk1> He gets notified automatically
<OvenWerk1> he is subscribed to it
<OvenWerk1> If you have time find out what package(s) are needed.
<smartboyhw> ttoine, question: When was the first release of Ubuntu Studio released?
<smartboyhw> I mean, officially as an derivative
 * OvenWerk1 is wandering away for a while...
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, xubuntu-docs...
<smartboyhw> That's what we need only
<cub> smartboyhw, 7.04 I would say was the first official release. http://oktyabr.wordpress.com/2007/01/27/ubuntu-studio-an-interview-with-project-manager-cory-kontros/
<smartboyhw> cub, thanks
<cub> but ttoine and holstein were there in the beginning, no? They should know.
<smartboyhw> cub, maybe astraljava too
<smartboyhw> The founder is ttoine though
<zequence-work> I personally don't think there's any hurry to include it for this release
<zequence-work> Just do the work and when it's done, include it
<zequence-work> About the docs, that is
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, it would be great if I can include it in this release. I will give it to you guys for review, of course;)
<zequence-work> Why would it be great?
<zequence-work> It's only supported for nine months
<zequence-work> It's not bad to include it, not saying that
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, I want to get feedback from users themselves
<zequence-work> You mean, you want Xubuntu to get feedback from users? IO'
<zequence-work> I'm taking this is XFCE documentation with a bit of Ubuntu in it
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: No, I'm taking this is Xubuntu documentation with a bit of Ubuntu Studio applications and workflows in it
<smartboyhw> The most important part is the second part (our applications)
<zequence-work> We don't have Ubuntu Studio documentation of that kind
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: Erm, that doesn't mean I can't write that part
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: Start with the user guide in the wiki, in that case
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: That's our documentation
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, that's wha I'm doing:)
<zequence-work> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UserGuide
<zequence-work> You can easily replace any non multimedia specific stuff with how Xubuntud does it
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: Yep, thanks:)
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, uh hum, we have NOTHING in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Documentation ?
<zequence-work> Seems so
<zequence-work> What were you looking for?
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, :(
<zequence-work> ttoine: Any way we can remove some of the color choices in the web shop? There are some colors that just don't mix
<cub> blue print on red shirt is awesome, not matter what you say. ;)
<zequence-work> blue on blue is not that great though
<zequence-work> and there are many combinations where something is barely visible
<zequence-work> black text on black background doesn't work that well for instance
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, I thought you would have written up something on that page (since before you took over as project lead you are doc lead)
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: So, me writing all the docs is not enough for you?
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: I thought you would write about how to teach people to write the docs:P
<zequence-work> Some year in the future, when I have time, and decided how docs should be written, perhaps
<smartboyhw> ok...
<zequence-work> When I write the docs, I'm also figuring out how to write them at the same time
<zequence-work> The stuff that the doc team needs to worry about is: where are all our docs and when should we edit them?
<zequence-work> That would be things to add to that page
 * smartboyhw will tell everybody where the offline docs are after he communicated with ~ubuntu-doc-committers
<smartboyhw> Since it seems that Xubuntu offline docs are held there
<smartboyhw> So am asking if I can commit too..
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, so, are we adding xubuntu-docs to our package?
<smartboyhw> *seeds + meta
<smartboyhw> As OvenWerk1 suggests
<smartboyhw> We need to do that a.s.a.p. (before FF)
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: I don't know what is in that package
<zequence-work> why should we add it?
<zequence-work> What will we get by adding it?
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, at least, basic guides on how to use Xfce desktop
<smartboyhw> (I think)
<smartboyhw> knome, I think you'd better explain a bit further^^
<zequence-work> Someone should install it and see how we can make use of it.
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: xubuntu-docs is Xubuntu documentation, to make it simple. It introduces of what desktop applications are there, how to go through the settings, how to do adminstrative tasks, set up scanning, internet networks, managing applications, etc. 
<smartboyhw> It's like, ubuntustudio-docs not yet optimized for Studio (but for Xubuntu and Xfce)
<ttoine> zequence-work, I didn't find a way to do it atm
<ttoine> But, I found the way to suggest the default colour
 * smartboyhw wants ttoine to answer when is Ubuntu Studio first released:)
<ttoine> smartboyhw, in the past ?
<ttoine> when was ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, yep
<smartboyhw> Official
<ttoine> wow...october 2006 or april 2007, something like that, I would say
<ttoine> I was invited at november 2006 UDS for I was cofounder of US
<smartboyhw> ttoine, can you actually remember when was it first released? I mean, with an image available on Ubuntu server
<ttoine> I can't remember
<ttoine> But I am pretty sure that if you look at the first versions of the wiki page, you will find some anouncement or something like that
<smartboyhw> -.-
<ttoine> smartboyhw, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Studio
<ttoine> may 2007
<smartboyhw> ttoine, got it
<smartboyhw> -.- May => 7.04!?
<cub> smartboyhw, which it said in the article I gave you. The interview with Cory.
<smartboyhw> cub, weird:p
<cub> 32 bit 7.04, 64 bit 7.10.
<nickg_> hey ive got a bunch of free time over the next couple weeks, if i can get a list of things to be done on the website, i can work via us.nickgermaine.ca to make some changes, then provide the code to someone to enter into the actual website
<zequence> hi nickg_ 
<nickg_> hey
<nickg_> ive been super busy lately
<smartboyhw> Hello nickg_ 
<nickg_> hey
<zequence> nickg_: I think the most work will be needed in time for 14.04. But, we haven't been working on the artwork yet
<nickg_> ok
<nickg_> just let me know what is needed, and ill do it up
<zequence> nickg_: So, for now, the only thing I can think of is fixing the grey text, which you already worked on
<nickg_> yah hah i was thinking about that last night actually, there was a US post on facebook about merch, so i went to the site, and saw the date and etc of the post and it is awful light
<zequence> Yes, would be nice to make it easier to read
<zequence> I could imagine trying some different things with the design too
<nickg_> for sure, i work til 8 Atlantic tonight, ill do that up tonight
<nickg_> heres a question: what about like, a topbar on the site that spans 100% of the screen but the navigation is only set to like 1000px or whatever the main content areas width
<nickg_> can i send you a screenshot of the design im working on for my own site?  its under maintainance mode
<nickg_> here hold on
<nickg_> http://nickgermaine.ca/ can you see the site, i turned off maintanance mode
<zequence> Sure
<nickg_> n that sites nowhere near finished, just got some of the basics done on it right now
<zequence> nickg_: Here's my staging site http://www.ubuntustudio.mousike.me/
<zequence> nickg_: The logo is new. You should get it and add it to your version as well
<zequence> This one http://www.ubuntustudio.mousike.me/wp-content/themes/ubuntustudio-wp-devel/img/us-logo.png
<zequence> The logo doesn't need to be that exact size or anything
<OvenWerk1> zequence: re: black on black, I was actually given a hat/cap where the logo was black as well as the hat. It was a patch not a printed design, but it did work. Now that the hat has faded it works fine :) If the print texture is different enough, it will be ok.
<OvenWerk1> though I don't think anyone will choose that ...
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Would you want to risk it? :P
<OvenWerk1> Whoever is paying the money gets to choose I guess.
<zequence> nickg_: The important thing with the logo is the new design of it. With the fonts especially. The CoF symbol next to the text could be removed
<OvenWerk1> Maybe it would be good for "formal" occasions :)
<nickg_> yah the new logo looks prettier and softer
<nickg_> oh yah, the search box hadn't been touched in the css either, it looks straight from the 90s, ill code up one on us.nickgermaine.ca later
<nickg_> im just analyzing right now
<zequence> nickg_: Would be great if you could fix that kind of stuff. Later, if we establish a unified artwork, and have specific design ideas for colors and patters and that sort of thing, we can just implement it. And use whatever you've done as inspiration too
<zequence> You could basically feel free to do whatever you want. Just that artwork in terms of colors and patterns might change at a later stage
<nickg_> yah for sure, im just gonna play around and if anyone likes it, you can use it,  busy working right now tho, this weekend i kind of have a lot of time
<OvenWerk1> wow, there are a lot of things from 32 to 64 bit that are the same. Copying the 32 bit image to the 64 bit name and running zsync against it gives me over 50% done.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: Smart move :)
<cub> still at work, zequence-work ?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-08-30
<micahg> OvenWerk1: for some reason, I never subscribed to the saucy seed
<len-1310> It looks like all of my changes are in the ISO today.
<len-1310> looks like everything works as expected.
<len-1310> 64bit is faster than 32 on the same machine :)
<micahg> seeds make ISO, meta makes -desktop
<len-1310> Menu is right. When xfce fixes their stock menu file we will be able to just merge into that.
 * len-1310 is happy with what he sees... so far.
<len-1310> micahg, the display settings looks good. Thank you for the upload.
<len-1310> zequence, it looks like we should be able to remove ARandR as the xfce display dialog seems to deal with dual monitors just fine.
<len-1310> the volume control applet doesn't work (same as xubuntu I guess)
<len-1310> smartboyhw, have we told -release we want beta 1?
<smartboyhw> Hello len-1310 
<smartboyhw> Oh no:(
<smartboyhw> len-1310, we did yesterday 
<smartboyhw> (Actually, two days ago)
<len-1310> good, just checking.
<len-1310> both 32 and 64 bit live sessions are fine.
<len-1310> 32 installs fine (still in the 64bit live)
<len-1310> Grub mods work well.
<smartboyhw> len-1310, good
<smartboyhw> That means we are not expecting that number of bugs:P
<smartboyhw> I do wonder what happened to volume control applet though
<len-1310> Basically I am happy with things.
<len-1310> gtk2/3 issue I think.xubuntu is working on it.
<smartboyhw> len-1310, :)
<micahg> indicator stuff?
<len-1310> Ya
<micahg> it'll probably go in -backports or a PPA
<micahg> too risky this late in the cycle
<len-1310> Cool.
<smartboyhw> So, it shouldn't be breaking, right? ;p
<len-1310> jack starts realtime.
<len-1310> 4ms is the best I can get with this hda audio card :P
 * len-1310 can get .6ms with a "real" audio card ;)
<smartboyhw> len-1310, heh
<len-1310> Solid though, no xruns.
<len-1310> plays well with pulse.
<len-1310> Ok, install time...
<smartboyhw> len-1310, huh, zequence-work is still at work?:O
<len-1310> prolly not.
<len-1310> prolly not awake either
<smartboyhw> len-1310, that's what I call "faking"
<len-1310> why does ubiquity always think I am resizing?
<smartboyhw> len-1310, what?
<smartboyhw> :O
<len-1310> I always use the something else page. Select a partition and then ext4 and set it to /. never change the size, but it always seems to think I am anyway. I think it is because the display is in Meg and the original number is rounded and then accepted as the new size. ubiquity should notice if it has not been changed from what it gave.
<len-1310> The slide show seems to be smoother on this machine.
<smartboyhw> len-1310, it should
<len-1310> This video card drives things nuts. It shows three active ports (and some dead ones).
<smartboyhw> len-1310, lol
<len-1310> the active ports are all used to determine different things.
<len-1310> One was used to pick the initial size, one really does change the size and the third determines the size of screen one... which means my panel is based on the biggest one :P
<len-1310> *screen zero
<len-1310> I am using the DVI port, but it shows an lvds as being connected as well.
<len-1310> driver problem... or maybe BIOS
<len-1310> ubiquity kills my partition label too :P
<smartboyhw> len-1310, LOL
<len-1310> There is already a bug for that.
<len-1310> Lets see if there is a partition resize bug
<len-1310> It did resize too, I lost 8M from that partition.
<len-1310> Bug #1218702 
<ubottu> bug 1218702 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity resizes partition even when not asked to." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1218702
<OvenWerk1> micahg: just reading your comment now. Good to know. I am not sure what changes have been made to the seeds besides the last two. I don't know how much we need the desktop meta.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: You may remove ARandr if you like. I think you're the one who has been using that the most. I don't use dual myself
<smartboyhw> zequence, welcome:)
<zequence> smartboyhw: Thanks
<smartboyhw> zequence, BTW why is your work account still there?:P
<zequence> Yeah, I left my netbook at work. 
<zequence> Going there soon. Raining heavily here :/
<smartboyhw> zequence, here too
<smartboyhw> We got two rainstorm warnings today
<zequence> Your raining is propably worse then ours. We don't really have rainstorms here :P
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah
<smartboyhw> zequence, zequence-work : I am thinking to get my T-shirt through http://community.ubuntu.com/help-information/funding/
<smartboyhw> HMM, bigger problem: I can't ship it here
<smartboyhw> The countries list does not include mine
<smartboyhw> zequence, zequence-work ^ HELP~!
<smartboyhw> ttoine, um, I can't seem to buy a T-shirt from Hong Kong
<smartboyhw> It's only available for most European Countries, Japan or US
<knome> hong kong, the place with shirtless men
<smartboyhw> knome, not just that
<smartboyhw> It seems like most Asian Countries
<smartboyhw> and South American
<smartboyhw> and African countries can't buy it
<smartboyhw> Unforunately, I'm currently the only team member from Asia:(
<Cub> OvenWerk1, i use arandr a lot. So the new -settings from xfce 4.11 is working well I gather?
<ttoine> smartboyhw, really ? i will contact spreadshirt
<smartboyhw> ttoine, yep
<ttoine> done. now I am waiting for the answer
<Noskcaj> smartboyhw, in response to your T-shirt thing, i'm in australia, which is halfway to asia, and probably doesn't get the shirt
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, yeah
<smartboyhw> Let's see what reply ttoine gets from SpreadShirt
<Noskcaj> Can someone run the builder for python-flash? It seems to have froxen on i386
<Noskcaj> *frozen
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, heh?
<Noskcaj> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flask/0.10.1-2/+build/4910117/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-i386.flask_0.10.1-2_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, WRONG CHANNEL
<smartboyhw> (Except for micahg, you can't ask anybody here to rebuild)
<Noskcaj> i wanted to check here, since it's a studio package
<Noskcaj> -motu is the place to ask i assume
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, well, we can't do the rebuild (except micahg)
<Noskcaj> ok
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: In the Flavours QA session yesterday, the Xubuntu team said that as long as we have a clear organization of writing tests and willing to get a bit less testing during a timeframe when most of the testers are actually writing the tests. 
<smartboyhw> So, what should we do?
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: I'm not following now
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: Uh hum, the current issue is that we have a HUGE number of bugs about Ubuntu Studio's testcases in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bugs?field.tag=ubuntu-studio
<smartboyhw> (That's for application testing)
<smartboyhw> So, now you should get what I mean
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: So, how was the related to the Xubuntu team?
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: They said that since they can do it, we can easily do it too
<smartboyhw> (IIRC)
<smartboyhw> I mean, asking for people to write testcases
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: Yes, that would be good to do. And you are free to suggest anything on that.
<zequence-work> For 14.04 we need to do everything right
<zequence-work> so, even if we don't implement a system for that now, we need to for 14.04
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: ok
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, OK
<ttoine> smartboyhw, http://www.spreadshirt.fr/aide-C1328/categoryId/277/articleId/542
<smartboyhw> ttoine, how do you suppose I can read French?
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: There's a button at the top left for language selection
<zequence-work> Not sure they deliver outside America or Europe
<zequence-work> so it may be someone needs to buy something for smartboyhw and then send it by standard mail
<ttoine> smartboyhw, sorry. this the list of countries, and in Asia, only Japan at the moment. I aksed them if the schedule to open more deliveries
<smartboyhw> ttoine, zequence-work uh hum
<smartboyhw> :(
<ttoine> smartboyhw, :(
<smartboyhw> zequence-work: Maybe do it like this: You apply for funds from Ubuntu using https://forms.canonical.com/cda/ and receive the fund yourself. Then use the fund to buy a T-shirt and ship it to me.
<smartboyhw> The fund needs to be buying T-shirt + delivery cost from Spreadshirt to you + delivery cost from you to me.
<zequence-work> smartboyhw: Nah. That's not how I would use those funds anyway. I'll gladly get you a t-shirt and send it to you in a couple of weeks
<smartboyhw> zequence-work, OK, thank you:)
<smartboyhw> When it arrives at your address, tell me and I'll give you mine
<OvenWerk1> :) interesting... if the menu is in english I pay in pounds.
<ttoine> smartboyhw, they will add new countries in time, but no list and no garanties
<smartboyhw> ttoine, ouch
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-08-31
<OvenWerk1> Interesting, starting qjackctl when it is already running tells it to start jack.
<OvenWerk1> zequence: I was thinking it might be a "good" thing to have qjackctl autostart with the session in "start minimized to system tray" mode.
<OvenWerk1> qjackctl could be run from the tray if the user wished. Those who don't know what that icon in the tray is for would start qjackctl from the menu.
<OvenWerk1> Which would just make qjackctl show.
<OvenWerk1> Except it also has the effect of selecting the "start" button.
<OvenWerk1> I have sent email to the developer asking if this is intentional as even starting qjackctl twice (ie it is already running in a different workspace) would cause it to start jack.
<OvenWerk1> Hmm, Rui says that is intentional. Not likely to change then.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-09-01
<smartboyhw> zequence, hello:)
<zequence> smartboyhw: hi
<zequence> OvenWerk1: I'd rather work on replacing qjackctl with a new tool
<zequence> i.e. -controls
<OvenWerk1> zequence: what would you use to make jack conections?
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK, I'm starting to feel dizzy as to what we are planning for 14.04 LTS now-.-
<OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: new artwork.
<zequence> OvenWerk1: patchage, or a modded version of it, as falktx uses
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, well, that's not just it, right?!
<zequence> smartboyhw: no
<OvenWerk1> I have had patchage crash on me too many times.
<OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: sorry, I was joking, art is the one thing we have talked about..
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, lol. I do think we need to start planning for 14.04 now (don't know if you guys like it), but we seem to have quite a lot of things planned and I can't remember all of them-.-
<OvenWerk1> ardour3. Sync the CAPs plugins would be nice.
<zequence> We do planning when this cycle is done
<zequence> though, 14.04 has already been mapped out quite well in planning already
<zequence> one just needs to read through it
<OvenWerk1> FF is past, we could look more at 14.04. Only artwork left for this cycle.
<smartboyhw> Yeah, and it's madeinkobaia's job:P
<zequence> in time
 * OvenWerk1 has done the stuff he wanted for this cycle
<zequence> yes, and that was very good of you
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, congratulations
 * smartboyhw didn't do anything this cycle basically;P
<smartboyhw> Fortunately, I got goals for 14.04
<smartboyhw> If not I will be a noob here;P
<zequence> We need to have a meeting at some point
<zequence> at least one meeting before we start working on the next cycle
 * smartboyhw agrees
<OvenWerk1> It looks like some of the broken things for xfce will get fixed.
<OvenWerk1> arandr can go, I think.
<zequence> If someone wants, they could put some time on thinking about how we do beta testing
<zequence> we should make sure no application is suffering from bad packaging, etc
 * smartboyhw should (by his role)
<zequence> and just generally try to catch bugs
<OvenWerk1> kdenlive seems to work.
<OvenWerk1> jack works, ardour does.
<zequence> Did you check full functionality, or just make sure the applications start?
<OvenWerk1> the audio applet doesn't
<zequence> well, there's one problem then - but I suppose Xubuntu is on it?
<zequence> as it's shared by both..
<OvenWerk1> kdenlive I made/edited a video.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, we have quality control in KDE here;P
<zequence> I don't think it's helpful citing which apps works on this channel
<OvenWerk1> xubuntu has a fix... if they can get it out
<zequence> there's bugs for testing applications. and we need to write test cases 
<zequence> ok, so then it's not a problem 
<OvenWerk1> I don't know where to go with blender though. How to test functionality.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, well, it's just a matter of how a normal user uses it
<smartboyhw> As long as we know how they use it, we test it by doing the exact same
 * OvenWerk1 is trying to say there are a number of apps thet require some knowlage of the craft.
<zequence> The one who writes the test case needs to know the application
<zequence> and the idea is we involve our users in this
<smartboyhw> zequence, yes we are supposed to
<OvenWerk1> good
<OvenWerk1> The one thing I did notice with kdenlive is the docs don't work.
<OvenWerk1> It seems the required kde infrastructure is not installed/running
<OvenWerk1> Also, there are now 4 BG processes running for KDE that are no longer in use.
<zequence> sounds like a packaging problem
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, huh?
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, how?
<OvenWerk1> kdeinit4 klauncher kded4 /usr/bin/knotify4 were started by kdenlive, but of course kdenlive expects them to remain running so it doesn't kill them.
<OvenWerk1> This is part of the problem with any kde app.
 * OvenWerk1 kills these things and starts krita
<OvenWerk1> krita starts more kde BG stuff... and it is not the same ones, so after running both krita and kdenlive we would have 6 spare things running around. However the doc book in krita is a web page.
<smartboyhw> What did I miss?!
<OvenWerk1> 06:50 < OvenWerk1> kdeinit4 klauncher kded4 /usr/bin/knotify4 were started by  kdenlive, but of course kdenlive expects them to remain  running so it doesn't kill them.
<OvenWerk1> 06:50 < OvenWerk1> This is part of the problem with any kde app.
<OvenWerk1> 06:54  * OvenWerk1 kills these things and starts krita
<OvenWerk1> krita starts more kde BG stuff... and it is not the same  ones, so after running both krita and kdenlive we would have  6 spare things running around. However the doc book in krita  is a web page.
 * smartboyhw recommends OvenWerk1 to use the IRC logs syntax selection of paste.ubuntu.com next time:)
<OvenWerk1> They don't seem to be actively using cpu, but they are using 115M of RAM
<OvenWerk1> khelpcenter is quite small, we could include it.... but then I got a not found page...
<smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, :O
<OvenWerk1> There is not a kdenlive doc package, but there are online docs.
<OvenWerk1> The kdenlive-data package (which we ship) does seem to have the offline docs there. The help center just doesn't seem to know about it.
<OvenWerk1> Hmm, the extra installer for each workflow should include the ubuntustudio meta for that workflow.
<OvenWerk1> That would be less confusing for someone who added the menu to another DE
<OvenWerk1> GA! found the problem with the kdenlive docbook... which doesn't work in a kubuntu session either.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-08-25
<OvenWerks> Wow, did you know we have no tuner application?
<OvenWerks> I tried some out:
<OvenWerks> gtkguitune: does not work with jack, not recomended
<OvenWerks> gxtuner: works with jack and is easy to use.
<OvenWerks> lingot: works really well and is more flexable than gxtuner as it can use pulse or alsa as well as jack.
<OvenWerks> lingot would be my recomendation.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-08-26
<DalekSec> OvenWerks: lingot wasn't so bad, fmit was interesting too.
<cub> OvenWerks, I haven't tried any software for tuning since I always use my pedal. I just noticed that Lingot hasn't been updated since 2011. Gxtuner seems to be pulled out fron Guitarix, which is included if I don't remember wrong. I haven't used that either though. Guitarix is at least maintained.
<zequence> OvenWerks: We should really try to make additions before feature freeze (and that said, I haven't yet synced us with Xubuntu, as I was supposed to)
<zequence> Not a big deal to add a tuner though
<zequence> I could do that while I make the other changes to seeds
<zequence> Just a thought: how would it be if we just released once every year?
<zequence> These 9 month issues don't seem worth putting up, especially when they are so close to a LTS
<zequence> Wouldn't save an awful amount of work though. We still need to keep our package up to date
<zequence> The only thing we don't need to do is QA on the ISO. And we still need to respect the release schedule.
<zequence> Users would still be able to upgrade to a newer version of Ubuntu from which ever release they are on.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-08-27
<OvenWerk1> zequence: Sorry, I thought I had said for 1504, but it appears I did not. The reason I chose lingot is that it can run without jack. Guitarix has a great tuner which I use all the time, but I am thinking that some of our users just want a tuner without having to set up jack. Maybe I am wrong though. Mostly I wanted to point out that there is no tuner app which to me seems to be a hole. I only thought of it now, because someone was asking in LAU w
<OvenWerk1> as far as releases go, I am not sure, It is easier as you say, to test ISOs than upgrades. I do think the ISOs between LTS should be snapshot of progress more than full release... at least for the time we have. The real goal is 1604, but getting bits done for 1410,1504 and 1510 would be nice.
<zequence> Damn, seems like my focusrite device will not be supported with alsa by the new kernel. Haven't tested it yet.
<zequence> (firewire)
<zequence> btw, I told the release team we won't participate in the first Beta
<OvenWerk1> zequence: seems reasonable
<ObrienDave> zequence, do you still need testing help?
<zequence> ObrienDave: Sure
<zequence> ObrienDave: If you like, get our latest ISO, and start feeling it out. The desktop stuff is not up to date atm, but you could try different applications
<ObrienDave> just got the latest daily, where are your test cases to test against?
<zequence> ObrienDave: There are none yet.
<zequence> ObrienDave: What do you usually use Ubuntu Studio for?
<ObrienDave> k, just to play, will need to setup a VM for it
<zequence> We don't need that much help with desktop testing. More so on the different multimedia production workflows
<zequence> It helps if you have some experience in at least one of them
<zequence> I'll be writing a few test cases before the Final beta
<ObrienDave> ok, i'll start to get familiar with some of the packages
<zequence> Gotta go. But, I'll post on the mail list when there's something
<ObrienDave> k
<holstein> i would like to clear some of that out at some point, zequence 
<holstein> zequence: make sure we dont have a bunch of "official" test cases that make it more complex for, say, the xubuntu team to help test our iso's
<holstein> try and keep the audio specific stuff "in house"
<holstein> maybe just mirror whatever they have, officially
<elfy> holstein: if you mean existing testcases then you just pick and choose what you want and make it a *testsuite*
<elfy> so you can have any testcase you want in there
<holstein> elfy: i just think we may have a little audio-specific "kruft", that we could take care of in house
<ObrienDave> hiya elfy
<holstein> nothing to make qa testers go through for the iso release, officially
<elfy> holstein: yep 
<elfy> way I saw it was 
<elfy> have specific studio testcases that run for the whole cycle that are seperate from the images
<elfy> that's how everyone else has been doing it
<holstein> elfy: ok.. so, those are not "iso test cases" then? nothing that would be manditory to make the iso's release, for example?
<elfy> nope - not at all :)
 * holstein +1 on that
<holstein> zequence: you like that?
<elfy> the xubuntu package stuff is http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/316/builds/67147/testcases
<elfy> it's been running since cycle start and will finish on cycle end
<elfy> the image testing is where you know it is - same for studio as xubuntu
<elfy> so if you had testcases for audio/video/production/anything you want - you can set up testsuites for each one - then people can just test what they know
<holstein> maybe thats what zequence is planning on setting up
<elfy> and THAT setting stuff up is what I'm more than happy to help with :)
<elfy> I'd not know one end of the majority of your apps from the other :p
<holstein> elfy: i was just about to log in and see if/how to edit
<elfy> if people wirte them - I can get them merged and synced to the tracker so they are available
<elfy> holstein: you in the studio-release team? I think that's what controls access to the tracker admin side
<holstein> elfy: i'll have to look into it more closely
<zequence> I think that since the plan is to completely mirror the Xubuntu dekstop setup for Utopic, we don't actually need to test the desktop to any other extent than just make sure you can login
<zequence> So, no need to double the testing that is already done in Xubuntu
<elfy> holstein: yep - you probably know when I'm likely to be about - and I'm always happy to answer stuff
<holstein> well, to "mirror" it, since they are different iso's
<elfy> zequence: yep agreed
<holstein> i dont think we can "piggy-back" on the xubuntu iso tests
<elfy> zequence: there are some things we don't test as they get covered elsewhere 
<zequence> And, so, we only do testing for a specific set of applications that are only found on Ubuntu Studio
<elfy> holstein: I think zequence is talking apps not images
<zequence> Yeah. The ISO testing itself will remain simple
<zequence> That's just about making sure it installs, and that the installation boots more or less
<elfy> I did write a studio specific one - that includes your choose audio etc dialogue
<elfy> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-manual-tests/trunk/view/head:/testcases/image/1639_UbuntuStudio%20Install
<elfy> not used anywhere yet - but is is available to use 
<zequence> Ah
<elfy> holstein: the hardest thing will be getting the package testcases written 
<holstein> agreed
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-08-24
<cub> zequence: I was reading the old PR strategy and wonder if there is any automation involved when updating the web site:
<cub> "Website & Social Sites: Post an article on the Ubuntu Studio Website. This post is published on facebook, twitter, identi.ca and the website at once."
<cub> At once...is it automatic somehow or just a reminder to post it on all channels at once?
<cub> The web site theme is not very responsive. And I just noticed that knome had changed the theme for Xubuntu. I think we should consider this in the coming overhaul of the web site.
<cub> I think a move to a new theme by 15.10 would be quite possible with a major change in design and art for 16.04. The only feedback we have received on the web site (that I'm aware) of has been complaints so perhaps an update is due even earlier than the next LTS
<cub> only thing is the process to actually upload to the server and to be able to quickly fix any post-errors that was not discovered beforehand
<zequence> cub: There's no automation, so it's not exactly at once
<zequence> There is a plugin, which I think is now installed that could let you do that though
<zequence> Anyone who would like to do work on the web site theme, just give it a go.
<zequence> People to talk to, for help and assistance: knome, madeinkobaia
<zequence> madein can help with artwork
<zequence> Also, there are blueprints for the website, which should be used to organize the work
<zequence> But, don't think anyone has the time now
<cub> I was thinking of me. As I'm doing a couple of wordpress sites at the moment my php skills are fresh. In a couple of months, who knows? ;)
<cub> I think automatic posting on channels are to be avoided. Better to be able to tweak the posting for each target. but more on that in what I prepare for the PR strategy mail I'm writing
<cub> I was thinking, unless we have strong attachement to the current web site design, we could tweak the Xubuntu one (like before) and be up and running in time for 15.10
<cub> zequence: I assume you never heard back from the guy talking about doing art work for the web page?
<cub> it was some time ago
<zequence> No, he hasn't been heard of since
<zequence> I think we should aim higher than copying Xubuntus theme, if possible
<zequence> I have also been doin a bit of php lately. But, I'm not anywhere near having time for that yet, and don't know how long until I have
<cub> Yes, another aim for 16.04 but some change for 15.10, was my thinking
<zequence> Right now I'm working on listing packages for backporting. I tried a lot of ways to list packages with apt tools, but finally I found it easier to just build my own, downloading package lists from apt repositories directly
<cub> to do our own theme from scratch requires more work and knowledge than I have
<zequence> It would be good for it to be mobile friendly in either case
<cub> yup, it feels a bit old to not have a mobile friendly web site in 2015
<cub> going back to doing our own theme, it's not just to create it, it needs to be maintained as well. More efficient to use a common theme and do customizations to it in a child theme. And get all updates "for free"
<zequence> If it works, I can easily see it being untouched for at least 2 years at a time
<zequence> Though, wordpress may make it fail of course
<zequence> (workdpress updates, I mean)
<zequence> But, I wouldn't know about that
<cub> there are security updates even for themes sometimes
<zequence> Yes, and therefore I think it is of course best to keep things minimal, if doing it yourself
<zequence> But, the design don't have to suffer though
<zequence> I'm making a tool that I'm calling apt-search for now. It will be able to search from any debian type archive
<zequence> Time to head home
<cub> holstein, are you online?
<cub> sent an email instead
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-08-25
<OvenWerks> This is old, but part of where I want to go: http://gareus.org/blog/jack2dbus
<OvenWerks> Jack runs all the time, if the script finds a USB port it prefers that and switches jackdbus to that on the fly, otherwise it uses the internal audio IF.
<OvenWerks> I would like to go one step further. Any device not being used by jack gets connected via zita-ajbridge.
<OvenWerks> The controller would set zita-ajbridge's client name to some inteligent interface name.
<OvenWerks> maybe just the name returned by arecord/play -l
<zequence> Let's make it happen, using -controls to configure it
<OvenWerks> for all those people plug in a USB mic and expect to monitor with internal speakers
<zequence> Another thing I've been thinking about is handling jack crashes
<OvenWerks> ??? you have jack crashes?
<zequence> There needs to be a restart/kill button somewhere
<zequence> Sure
<OvenWerks> could be respawnable. (by an external task)
<zequence> If jack crashes, the user shouldn't need to reboot in order to fix it (not everyone knows of killall -9 jackdbus)
<OvenWerks> right, very few do.
<sinewav> I just learned about it a few seconds ago! \o/
<zequence> jack-rack is already taken out, btw
<zequence> We can have it back if we upload it, but none of us has the right, I think
<sinewav> There is a good ongoing discussion about jack-rack on the Linux-audio list.
<OvenWerks> I will play a bit with guitarix to see if it _can_ be used to replace it.
<OvenWerks> sinewav: LAU?
<zequence> sinewav: Yes, I saw that. Ralf started that after he read about it being dropped in Debian/Ubuntu
<sinewav> yeah
<OvenWerks> It needs someone to take over maintaining it.
<zequence> I already decided it would be worth maintaining it, at least for the next cycle, as it seems to function ok, but I don't have upload rights for it
<zequence> ubuntustudio-dev would be maintainers
<OvenWerks> Personally, I would still want GCDMaster first.
<zequence> Does it work?
<OvenWerks> with the right libs...
<sinewav> It seems the consensus is, it will eventually breaks, but it is small and unobtrusive, so it wouldn't to keep it around a little longer.
<zequence> Ok, so it's just a matter of packaging then?
<sinewav> wouldn't hurt*
<sinewav> Can't type tonight....
<sinewav> I still find myself using it about once a year, but yeah, all of Linux Audio should move into the modern age.
<zequence> OvenWerks: If you can make it installable and runnable, we can just get it in Debian again, with some help
<OvenWerks> gcdmaster? that is gtk2 libs, it would mean bringing a lot of stuff in
<OvenWerks> I am not quite up to the task of upgrading GUI libs yet.
<zequence> I'm sure that we have other stuff that uses gtk2?
<OvenWerks> I think it is all gtk3 anymore
<zequence> If you need to change code, that will be another issue all together, and we will also need to become code maintainers, not just packagers
<OvenWerks> Ya, like I say, I am not there yet.
<OvenWerks> I am not sure what is happening with qmidiroute either.
<OvenWerks> No one seems willing to merge my one line fix in ubuntu.
<OvenWerks> The maintainer seems to only do fixes once a year.
<zequence> Hmm, how do I download the package source for something that doesn't exist anymore?
<OvenWerks> http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/trusty/jack-rack
<zequence> Ah, yes. Thanks
<OvenWerks> http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/vivid/jack-rack is newer but may be the same
<zequence> I'm building with bzr-buildpackage now, which created the orig
<zequence> The package was not there when I did pull-lp-source
<zequence> Well, it got built. I'm going to see what happens when I try to upload it soon
<zequence> It was in the bzr branch lp:ubuntu/jack-rack, though
<zequence> That is where I got it
<OvenWerks> It would be nice to back port the version of jackd2 in utopic to trusty.
<OvenWerks> It fixes a bug where when started by a jack application it should stop when the application stops
<OvenWerks> instead of keeping running after.
<zequence> Ok, that sounds like a SRU fix even
<zequence> In that case, we need a patch for only that function
<zequence> Usually the one git commit, or something similar
<OvenWerks> Nope, I'm wrong it is the vivid version we need.
<OvenWerks> People check the version number to see if it is the right one. fixing the one thing still won't give the right version.
<zequence> Well, that's not how SRUs work
<OvenWerks> https://github.com/jackaudio/jack2/commit/dd97d191240de8d09e709f6b1a8c4fafdac0a030 maybe this one?
<zequence> When we do a fix like that, we should announce it, like I did for PA and jackd a while back
<zequence> Do you have time to test it?
<zequence> Otherwise, I can do it later today
<OvenWerks> It would have to be later, I have kids to get in bed ... should have a while ago.
<zequence> Would be good to have some sort of routine for checking our core stuff for bug updates, so that we get them as early as possible
<micahg> BTW, I think you were looking for this before: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/wily/ubuntustudio
<OvenWerks> I wish I could say that was the only one in jack, but there are a lot of commits from 130622 to 140610
<zequence> I'm pretty much working with studio all day now, so I do actually have time
<zequence> micahg: Right, Ross was looking for a way to see all the studio packages
<micahg> there's a python script in ubuntu-archive-tools that can query packagesets, edit-acl
<micahg> or you can use the webpage
<zequence> I'm preparing some tools for creating a html page of possible backports, but I ended up creating a new sort of apt search tool for just getting packages and versions for any debian distro
<zequence> I need it for other stuff too
<zequence> Ah, I'll check it out
<zequence> micahg: Any chance you could help out with uploading jack-rack for us?
<zequence> Bug 1487137
<ubottu> bug 1487137 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "ubuntustudio metapackages reference lv2fil, jack-rack, specimen, phat removed from Debian" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1487137
<micahg> right now, no, but tomorrow evening, sure, just subscribe me
<zequence> micahg: Ok, thanks
<micahg> who should the maintainer be, the ubuntustudio dev list
<micahg> I went ahead and assigned it to me
<zequence> micahg: Yep, the team.
<micahg> zequence: BTW, I'd suggest trying to get in touch with the original maintainer in #debian-multimedia on OFTC and see if there's some reason why it might not be maintainable and/or if they'd be willing to have it in Debian if you're committing to help with it
<zequence> micahg: I will
<zequence> I mean, that's a good idea, and I will
<zequence> Actually, there's not much to say other than jack-rack is dead upstream, and that any bugs had no fixers.
<zequence> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=740123
<ubottu> Debian bug 740123 in ftp.debian.org "RM: jack-rack -- ROM; dead upstream" [Normal,Open]
<zequence> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=734020
<ubottu> Debian bug 734020 in jack-rack "FTBFS: error: unknown type name âGtkCallbackMarshalâ" [Serious,Fixed]
<zequence> We'll keep it for another cycle, and if nothing has happened about maintaining it properly until then (someone might get interested in working the code upstream, or forking it), we should probably remove it for the next LTS
<cub> I noticed contact@ubuntustudio.org are listed in some places. Is that address reaching someone?
<zequence> cub: It is redirected to me
<zequence> Mostly spam, but I get the occasional email from a real person. Mostly people looking for support, and I just redirect them to other places.
<zequence> I think we should remove it when I stop being lead. If the new lead wants it, we can create a new address
<zequence> The email is now html encoded, but I have no idea how that spamming works. Maybe it's too late for that now
<zequence> Maybe a new address would produce less spam
<zequence> I can get 100 spam mail per day
<zequence> It is almost always filtered out into the spam folder by my email service, but still...
<zequence> The email address on the site is html encoded, is what I meant
<cub> Good, I was just checking so it didn't just go nowhere and frustrated people. :)
<cub> Is there a guide on how to log on to the web site to do corrections or posts?
<cub> Never mind, got it. 
<cub> Hmm I don't have any rights though.
<zequence> cub: YOu have to login with the pr and support team membership
<cub> aha
<zequence> The ~ubuntustudio team has a subscriber role only
<cub> yes, now it looks more familiar
<zequence> cub: Ah, right. I also made you member of the website team
<zequence> That will have even more rights
<cub> yes, you put me on the web site team to upload the changes in colours for the WP theme
<zequence> Right. It also allows you to change settings for the website
<cub> "Discourage search engines from indexing this site" is checked. Is that imperative from Ubuntu?
<zequence> No, I don't think so
<zequence> That sounds like a bad idea for a setting
<cub> Yeah I only do that for development sites, then change it when we go live
<cub> I'm changing that. *fingers crossed*
 * zequence watches out the window looking for explosions
<cub> I immediatly got an email from David Pires......but it was unrelated. ;)
<cub> When I installed US 15.10 it changed the names and order of my grub menu, which is a bit annoying. Anyone know of a good simple way to re-arrange the order again without heavy scirpting or using grub-configurator from a PPA?
<cub> As I suppose this will happen every time I do a new installation for test
<holstein> !grub
<ubottu> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager. Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
<holstein> i always just refer to that ^ and do things manually if needed
<holstein> personally, it depends on the machine..but, the laptop i haul around, i just set it to wait, and not automatically do anything.. since, i reboot so seldom..
<holstein> the studio rig, i get a little more forceful about.. but, i still set it to let me manually choose.. with no countdown
<cub> I choose manually as well, but the latest installed OS always get on top
<holstein> well, you likely are having that new install install grub
<holstein> you can have it *not* install grub, and just run "sudo update-grub" on the other install.. likely
<holstein> i have had issues both ways, so, i just deal with it as it comes
<cub> yeah I was reading through this one now https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/CustomMenus
<cub> ran sudo update-grub on my Debian now and hope it will put itself first in line. At least it renamed all the entries better than US 15.10 did
<cub> holstein, did you get anywhere with the G+ name?
<holstein> cub: im right where i was
<holstein> cub: i dont have permission to add a plugin to add code into the header.. not that we know if that would allow us to have the name
<holstein> but, something like UbuntuStudioOrg would do, as well..
<cub> gotta work for a few hours. See ya!
<zequence> Each new install does a fresh install of GRUB, so if it's not a UEFI system, just don't install the GRUB bootloader.
<zequence> To refresh the GRUB menu, instead boot into the installation that also installed GRUB, and in a terminal do: sudo update-grub
<zequence> To rearrange GRUB, I have used ppa:danielrichter2007/grub-customizer
<zequence> Or, rearrange the GRUB menu, that is. It can do other GRUB settings as well
<OvenWerks> zequence: I didn't know you could not install GRUB, I just always install it somewhere I won't use. But yes go back to the partition that installed it and update.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-08-26
<OvenWerks> Well, I tried to use guitarix as just an effects container, but that doesn't seem possible. The preamp seems to be a fixed part of things.
<OvenWerks> nonmixer works, but not in repos.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Not sure if you can not install the GRUB with ubiquity, now that I think
<zequence> But, your way works, of course too
<zequence> I used to do that too, sometimes. Install it to a partition, instead of the whole drive
<zequence> Saw a wallpaper for wily werewolf. Guess what kind of beast i portrays?
<zequence> Pretty cool for the artists to have releases like this.
<zequence> We're not releasing a specific Beta 1 release. Don't know how we were supposed sign up for participation this time, and I don't really think we need to anyway
<zequence> We can test dailys just the same
<astraljava> I could do some testing hopefully tonight. But it's only going to be in vbox, or mayybe on one laptop that's a bit faster than this AMD thingie.
 * astraljava is under the impression it's beta-1 time, no?
<zequence> astraljava: Yes, but we are not releasing an ISO. You can still test it though
<zequence> Same thing, just without the administration
<cub> did US get a new ISO as well? I installed this weekend and was more or less just thinking of doing apt-get update now
<zequence> cub: all the flavors get one. They stop building some time before or during thursday, and only rebuild each time there is a bug 
<zequence> It's essentially a daily
<zequence> Not sure if our auto-build gets frozen though, since we aren't participating
<astraljava> zequence: Ok, then I'll probably concentrate on Xubuntu today, but will come back to US next week, provided life becomes more stable than the last couple of days.
<zequence> No problem
<zequence> ardour 4.2 is in Sid now
<zequence> Ever tried finding a Camera with audio playback?
<astraljava> Haha! Sounds... fascinating.
<zequence> Doesn't seem like a whole lot of people find that interesting enough so that it would end up in a single specification
<zequence> Only way to find one is go through them physically, at the store
<OvenWerks> zequence: is there a reason why non daw studio has not been packaged in debian/ubuntu?
<OvenWerks> (licencing or something like that? or just no one has done it?)
<zequence> OvenWerks: I usually start by looking for a possible repo here http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/
<zequence> Doesn't seem to be any non repos there
<zequence> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=681576
<ubottu> Debian bug 681576 in wnpp "RFP: non-daw -- a powerful, reliable and fast modular Digital Audio Workstation system" [Wishlist,Open]
<zequence> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=685064
<ubottu> Debian bug 685064 in wnpp "ITP: non-daw -- please package non-things" [Wishlist,Open]
<OvenWerks> nonmixer would be a reasonable replacement for jack-rack (I find it easier to use) and NSM seems to be the recomended session manager by many people.
<zequence> Can't find anything else. Seems like no one has given a good try at it yet
<zequence> It's in Fedora https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/non-daw
<OvenWerks> kxstudio has it too
<zequence> Well, perhaps someone of us could take care of that then?
<zequence> I can do it, if no one else beats me to it
<zequence> Should be possible to add linuxsampler to non-free repositories as well
<zequence> Not sure how that works between Debian and Ubuntu though. There's non-free in Debian, and multiverse in Ubuntu
<OvenWerks> LS may be different than nonfree as it is gpl+ which may be nonvalid all together or even have odd legal issues. It should probably be called "gpl like".
<OvenWerks> I guess it would actually be GPL-
<zequence> I can't be less free than non-free, so it has to be able to go somewhere
<cub> I was set up to look at non-daw before to use on my eeepc to capture ideas in the rehearsal room, but then I dropped my eeepc on the floor and it broke and I kind never got around to it again
<cub> it has changed name though to Non Timeline
<cub> zequence, did you mean that you might package non, or to try to get Debian to do it?
<zequence> I never seen anyone drop a eeepc before. Too bad I was not there
<zequence> My impression is that no one in the debian multimedia team is interested enough
<zequence> Perhaps they need fresh blood
<zequence> And, though I don't really look forward to have lots to do, I've long aimed at doing some packaging work there
<zequence> So, this is a perfect time for me in a way
<zequence> cub: The website name is still the same, right?
<cub> yes
<cub> http://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/Non%20Timeline
<cub> yes, I was too confident in the lunch room trying to carry my eeepc and my lunch tray at the same time. eeepc slipped and fell on it's back. The graphic chip broke as it would boot but no screen
<zequence> cub: Could be the screen got broke too, don't you think?
<cub> and then I tried to open it up to see if anything was just out of place and never got it to close again. So my daughter has it as a toy
<zequence> Did you try the VGA output?
<cub> I'm not sure, I think I tried the VGA out
<cub> exactly
<zequence> I have one with a broken keyboard. No idea what's wrong with it. Just doesn't work
<zequence> Use it as a server
<cub> it was sad. It was perfect on the daily commute and to test the i386 iso
<cub> ah a server could have worked perhaps.
<cub> only downside with non is that I'm not sure about the development, no news since 2013
<zequence> Ah
<zequence> I remember there was some activity in the past
<zequence> Haven't really followed
<cub> The developer is at least active on the mailing list
<cub> the irc channel seems quite though
<cub> Yes, I do have loose roadmap. As the years have ticked by, I have wondered if lightweight software like Non would become irrelevant as available computing power increased, but it seems that everything else gets more bloated and slower faster than Moore's Law can compensate, so for the time being at least I think there's still a place for Non and its pathological efficiency. 
<cub> Lately I haven't had much time at all to devote to it, but that's nothing new either. Free time ebbs and flows. Eventually I'll get some stuff off my plate and have time to get back into recording/mixing and working on Non. 
<cub> Liles (the developer) on the mailing list
<cub> Ok, checking non git there is continuous updates made. Just the website news page that is not updated since 2013
<zequence> Ah
<zequence> I'll have a look at it tomorrow
<zequence> If you want to follow programming jokes, I recommend this guy https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ThisiswhyicodeBlogspot/posts
<OvenWerks> cub: zequence: Non-daw git shows updates as late as 2015. The nondaw name is now used for the 4 nonprograms, sequencer, timeline, mixer and session manager.
<OvenWerks> the daw was renamed to timeline to avoid confusion as to wether it was the one program or the whole program set that was being talked about.
<OvenWerks> Maybe if it was packaged in debian it may be more popular...
<cub> exactly
<cub> not much action in the #non and the reply I got was a bit meh
<OvenWerks> cub: one of the things to note though is that is uses it's own graphics lib so it is much more posible for it to remain active without worrying about libs changing.
<OvenWerks> ntk is based on fltk as is avtk... speaking of which, are any of the  http://openavproductions.com/ apps/plugins in debian/ubuntu?
<OvenWerks> so far as I can tell, the api remains the same, just the widgets have been updated to "look nicer".
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-08-27
<zequence> I'm going to test ardour4.2 from sid, and if all goes well, do a sync request
<zequence> Bug 1489350
<ubottu> bug 1489350 in ardour3 (Ubuntu) "Sync ardour3 4.2~dfsg-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1489350
<zequence> Might not be possible today, but perhaps friday
<zequence> Or, the following week.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-08-28
<zequence> micahg: I added a branch to Bug 1487137
<ubottu> bug 1487137 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "ubuntustudio metapackages reference lv2fil, jack-rack, specimen, phat removed from Debian" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1487137
<zequence> Also, if you could please also sync ardour 4.2 to wily, Bug 1489350
<ubottu> bug 1489350 in ardour3 (Ubuntu) "Sync ardour3 4.2~dfsg-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1489350
<zequence> That is the package we were talking about backporting to trusty
<cub> good morning zequence I'm just wondering if you got my email from google docs yesterday, about the PR wiki?
<zequence> cub: Yes. Did you make any changes to the original wiki page yet, though?
<zequence> Also, why not just edit a wiki page instead?
<zequence> All changes are restorable
<zequence> What I would do is put the old stuff in a new wiki page, and start over with the whole structure of the PR part of the wiki
<zequence> The old stuff can be used as reference
<cub> No I wanted to have a discussion around it before we did any changes
<cub> alright, that would be easier than to use email, google docs or libreoffice for new revisions
<cub> I didn't want to step on any toes before editing. :)
<cub> I wasn't sure if and how the email-share from google docs would work 
<zequence> Don't worry about stepping on toes. No toes to step on.
<cub> I've been using google since I cheat with an ipad on my daily commute, which is when I get to do most open source stuff. On a non open source platform...
<zequence> Since no one is actively working on structuring that stuff
<cub> I'll update the wiki on my next bus ride then.
<zequence> The only one who has been working on structuring the wiki is me, pretty much. There was no structure in the past, just a page with links, and lots of pages that no one knew even existed
<zequence> Others have helped editing content on a few pages during my time, but that's about it
<zequence> As long as not two people are trying to do the same thing, I'm ok with anything when it comes to wiki. Self understood that the work is for improving, using old material as inspiration. And, after someone did something, just ask for opinions.
<zequence> Usually not many have'em
<cub> anyone talked to ttoine lately?
<zequence> cub: Why?
<zequence> I'm building unreal editor as a side project. Remember asking them, probably 10 years ago, or more, how much the license to use unreal engine would cost. It was like 2 million dollars, or maybe it was SEK. Don't remember. A lot, anyway. Now, the engine seems to be pretty much open source, it's free to download - they just ask for 5% royalty. Business has changed.
<zequence> I tried building it yesterday with an 8 core piledriver. Good to have lots of cores when compiling, but stuff gets hot!!!
<zequence> I'm doing the same on a i5, dual core (4 threads). Will probably burn through the table.
<cub> I was thinking from his recent email whether he was thinking of leaving ubuntu studio or if it's just an idea he's toying with
<cub> 5% royality of 0$ is....
<zequence> The only things I know he has been involved in is maintaining a wiki help page, and the merchandise store
<zequence> The store is nice to have. So, if he doesn't want to have it anymore, someone else should take it over
<zequence> Might require a communication with Canonical, to get an agreement for selling the products, as it was personal to ttoine
<zequence> I once asked if someone else could help him admin the page, since the cup that was faulty is still up, though I've told him about the problem at least three times
<zequence> He declined because the agreement is for him personally, so no one else can be admin
<cub> oh I thought that mug was out of the store already. I'm sporting two at home though. :P
<cub> And yes, the agreement with Canonical was personal, which was a bit weird as Ubuntu Studio is an official flavour, but I didn't follow the whole discussion around it
<holstein> its not "stepping on toes", though.. i feel the same about it, cub 
<holstein> i want to have a talk, in a meeting, for example
<cub> I have started to do som edits, and have been looking in at setting up a meeting. But maybe you are more up to date on how to run the meeting bot?
<holstein> cub: i have ran it, before.. its not that bad https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<holstein> cub: tbh, i find it completely disheartening, how challenging it is to try and make a meeting happen
<cub> yes I read through it, but it's another thing remembering the stuff while running the meeting 
<cub> hmm I wouldn't say that. We set one up. Then if noone show up we can feel disheartening.
<holstein> cub: it doesnt have to be done without error :)
<holstein> there are folks that can assist, for sure..
<cub> if run in the ubuntu meeting channel with 283 viewers, yes it has to be. ;)
<holstein> nah
<cub> as we don't have our own meeting-bot like xubunt
<holstein> thats what that channel is for.. everyone has to learn.. its fine
<cub> we lost our monthly meeting spot though.
<zequence> Perhaps we could set up our own meeting bot?
<cub> maybe, if we end up running regular meetings it could be useful
<holstein> sure.. but, there is alreay *everything* in place..
<cub> booking the fridge calendar requires planning
<holstein> yup.. that would be nice
<zequence> The meetings channel is not exactly full, so there is plenty of time of course
<cub> sure
<cub> depending on which time would be best. Seems we don't need to cover Asia anymore though
<cub> holstein, which time zone are you in?
<cub> and OvenWerks ?
<holstein> can please everyone.. just gotta go for it, and see what the feedback is.. and vote.. etc
<zequence> Asia is not an issue anymore, no. smartboyhw's dad probably had some other plans for him other than developing two Ubuntu flavors for free
<holstein> "action item: moving the meeting time to.. " for example
<zequence> holstein: Why not you?
<holstein> anyways, the meeting bot logs it, which is handy..
<cub> smartboyshw's dad should read up on Linus thorvalds. ;)
<holstein> zequence: why not me, what?
<cub> yeah, the bot is great for meeting minutes and action point
<zequence> holstein: Sorry, I read that as "anyone"
<zequence> The best place to get opinions on meeting times is on the mail list, since not everyone is here
<zequence> I would start with suggesting a weekend day, since most people have some kind of day job
<cub> my experience of getting everyones opinion on time end up with no time. Working in a large company...
<holstein> i would just pick a day that works for you, and have the meeting.. and there, you can work with what folks say
<holstein> crowd sourcing the meeting time goes like this.. "when do you want the meeting to be?".. and, all variables come in..
<cub> there is some meeting planners available where you can set up 2-4 alternatives and people click on which ones are best
<holstein> i would just, again, go for something close to whatever the xubuntu team does.. maybe that time of dayy, roughly..
<zequence> Well, I am free between 8am to 22pm every day pretty much
<cub> for me it's weekdays from 20.30 CET that is best
<holstein> cub: id say, make it good for you..
<zequence> OvenWerks works I think. He's in Canada
<cub> not sure what that would be in the US/Canada
<zequence> -7,-8, something like that
<zequence> Would mean lunch time
<cub> hmm
<holstein> i think 20:30 CET is 3:30 pm EST
<zequence> Ah, CET.
<zequence> We're about 2h +
<cub> I gotta run though, picking up my daughter
<cub> or CEST as of now...;)
<cub> see ya later!
<zequence> Unless we in Europe want to be up really late for a meeting, don't think weekdays work
<zequence> It's got to be a weekend. And, I have a tough time imagining that you can't set ONE meeting up, say every month, when at least most people can attend
<zequence> Well, maybe if it's around 23:00 our time, and it works for everyone
<zequence> ..then weekdays could work too
<OvenWerks> Weekends would be best for me. I am at -700 right now, till the end of DST. I am PDT/PST if that helps. I think sometime around 6am for me would be best for most people. (1300 utc) I can go later than that at least on Saturday, but on Sunday I need to be finished by 15:30 UTC.
<OvenWerks> Evenings for me are difficult as I have family stuff I need to take care of. (I am home from work by 2100 UTC and need sleep by 0500 UTC)
<OvenWerks> This will change sometime in November when I become -0800...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-08-30
<micahg> zequence: I'll take a look at those things
<zequence> micahg: Seems to me jack-rack is still in the wily repo. The branch I added just changes the maintainer info in the control file and the changelog.
<zequence> Well, git support coming to launchpad.
<micahg> zequence: I thought you wanted it to stay
<micahg> and Launchpad already has git support (I guess you mean for Ubuntu packages)
<zequence> micahg: According Langasek, we needed to upload jack-rack to "assert ownnership in the maintainer field". I read that as we needed to change the maintainer field in the control file
<zequence> launchpad claims the support is beta, which is why I said it is coming
<micahg> zequence: yes, that's correct
<micahg> zequence: did you talk to the Debian multimedia team?
<zequence> micahg: No. I just read the bug reports and the reason why it was dropped. Because of upstream abandoning it. But, I'm ok with that for at least one cycle.
<zequence> Since, it seems to work, and it covers an area that nothing else seems to do
<zequence> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=740123 and https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=734020
<ubottu> Debian bug 740123 in ftp.debian.org "RM: jack-rack -- ROM; dead upstream" [Normal,Open]
<ubottu> Debian bug 734020 in jack-rack "FTBFS: error: unknown type name âGtkCallbackMarshalâ" [Serious,Fixed]
<micahg> yeah, I read those as well
<zequence> There may be other alternatives in the future. Best option would be an application that supports all audio plugin types, if one were to be packaged for Debian.
<zequence> There seems to be a couple of options.
<zequence> None of them packaged yet, though.
<OvenWerks> zequence: how important is it that more than one plugin be wrapped in a rack? I am thinking that there are "standalone" wrappers for ladspa, lv2 and dssi... all cli, but maybe a GUI that starts/stops the instance would be enough. So long as it can launch multiple wrappers at a time.
<OvenWerks> The wiring would be done in jack in any case.
<OvenWerks> thjis would be future of course, not for 1510.
<zequence> OvenWerks: You thinking about coding some? From what I understand there are a couple of projects that allow this. But, nothing packaged in Debian.
<zequence> I think some people will really want to have that in any case. Supporting all plugin types makes things easier.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I am thinking one gui for all, but spawns a simple gui just for each plugin.
<zequence> Well, why not? :)
<OvenWerks> some of the racks out there that take any plugin are reported to be less than stable.
<zequence> I have too little experience myself to be able to share an opinion.
<OvenWerks> I will look into it. If I can make each of them work from CLI, then it is doable
<OvenWerks> DSSI has one for sure (we use it now for Hexter), I think the others have at least a sample host.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, I am out of here for a bit. Talk later
<zequence> OvenWerks: Later
<OvenWerks> zequence: jalv can replace zynjacku
<OvenWerks> a gui script that uses lv2ls to list available plugs and lets the user choose one should work. Exiting the GUI kills the plug already. jalv.gtk worked for me.
<OvenWerks> dssi_list_plugins and jack-dssi-host will do the same for dssi synths (we have all of four)
<OvenWerks> zequence: there is already a lv2rack that only needs a desktop file to work.
<OvenWerks> the ladspa-sdk (we must ship as I don't recall installing) has some tools... but they are not impressive. List plugins coredumps after listing about four plugins. Applyplugin only does files not streams.
<OvenWerks> lv2rack looks like jackrack updated to lv2 and may suffer simmilar bitrot.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-08-29
<OvenWerks> So these bugs ^^^^ are keeping a new font-manager out of debian and Ubuntu.
<OvenWerks> But these are bugs with the old version. If just dropping the new version fixes these bugs. Then that info should be added to these bugs.
<OvenWerks> Also debian bug #796817 should be updated if it fixes other bugs with the bug numbers it fixes.
<ubottu> Debian bug 796817 in font-manager "font-manager: version 0.7.2 is available" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/796817
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: and others interested:
<OvenWerks> Checking out new ISO 64 bit live.
<OvenWerks> 16.10 menu has proper icon/label for graphics utilities. dispcalgui is in it.
<OvenWerks> ebook-viewer does not have menu icons.
<OvenWerks> And it's manager (which does have an icon) doesn't show except in all applications.
<OvenWerks> some of the old display calibration desktop file we created have not been removed from -default-settings
<OvenWerks> Bug #1617846
<ubottu> bug 1617846 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "desktop files for gnome color manager have not been removed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617846
<OvenWerks> I have added this to the qa tracker as well.
<OvenWerks> One of the things I like very much is that dual screens default to side by side rather than mirror. Thanks xubuntu or xfce!
<OvenWerks> we should bug calibre too it seems to install it's icons in the wrong place... 
<OvenWerks> has /rofs/ become a new standard directory? It seems they are using it in the same way as /opt/
<OvenWerks> maybe something else. anyway, it seems an icon is missing.
<OvenWerks> Bug #1617850
<ubottu> bug 1617850 in calibre (Ubuntu) "ebook-viewer menu item is missing icon." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617850
<OvenWerks> It looks like to me that the utilities that come with alsa (device specific mixers) no longer come with icons... or they are expected to be in the standard icon set. Is there a set of base icons we are missing (perhaps from gnome 2).
<OvenWerks> reboot time... back to 16.04
<sakrecoer> thanks OvenWerks ! i tried to conpile fontmanager yesterday following the ubuntu guide and it seems we have libfreetype6 in ubuntu. make would fail due to some valca error conplaining about 8 pacakges not bbeing in its api path.. no idea what that means yet tbh.. lol
<sakrecoer> you did a great job with the menu again OvenWerks. :) maybe gpick should be in the utilities aswell, and of course we have to find a sollution for those missing icons..
<eylul> OvenWerks, sakrecoer: that icon is also missing on 16.04. we can file a bug with calibre?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: that probably means that although you may have the lib file, you may also need the lib package with the -dev extension.
<sakrecoer> thanks OvenWerks, in fact i installed both libe and the -dev packages, but nothing changed.
<sakrecoer> that is, i installed both for everything. Took me a while to figure why it would complain about missing things when running ./configure although i had installed them.
<sakrecoer> i understand -dev packages are made for this "make" process thing to work?
<sakrecoer> followed this: http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/packaging-new-software.html
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: my problem is a git clone and there is no ./configure :P
<OvenWerks> but it has ./autogen.sh instead
<OvenWerks> but just when I thought to start installing packages I realize I should be doing this in 16.10 not 16.04... 
<sakrecoer> yeah, i tried with the git version aswell... ./autogen-sh seem to then create the ./configure and run it
<sakrecoer> well... maybe you rae trying with a different package, OvenWerks. But i stumbled uppon the same riddle.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: the INSTALL file should say so...
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I am using https://github.com/FontManager/master
<OvenWerks> I should probably be DL 0.7.2 instead
<OvenWerks> I can always git reset --hard  08b9c63  though.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: i tried that one and the replica in https://code.launchpad.net/font-manager
<OvenWerks> I was going to install Studio on an older P4 I have here to test. I will see if I can build on there.
<sakrecoer> cool! thanks for looking into this OvenWerks <3
<sakrecoer> 17:20 < OvenWerks> sakrecoer: interesting, the calf plugins don't show up in qtrackor
<sakrecoer> i have them but i'm looking at 16.04
<OvenWerks> I am too.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: you have a filter next to the serach field...
<sakrecoer> maybe it filters them out...
<sakrecoer> filter as in... "show only these plugins" filer
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I am not sure, but we were able to get the dssi version to save presets so tha solves the problem
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: awesome!
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/20160829-152451.png
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I don't know, but I don't use calf plugins anyway. so it doesn't really matter.
<sakrecoer> :D
<sakrecoer> bu...but... they look good, so they must sound best! !! </ironic>
<sakrecoer> in fact, i think they sound great
<OvenWerks> They do have some problems... the eq can not be controlled by remote, the reverb can output 1000db and go hard denormal, just to name two
<sakrecoer> yeah, i don't use EQ that way.. the reverb thing i hear some say what you say, other say its been fixed for years.. never been a vicitme of it and its probably the one plug i use the most ..
 * sakrecoer touches wood
<OvenWerks> Have you tried gxzita_rev1?
<OvenWerks> I like steveharris Plate reverb
<sakrecoer> i don't think so! but i like the zita thingies lots 
<OvenWerks> a-reverb is getting there now too.
<sakrecoer> :)
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I am pretty sure fontmanager githead will not build. I did git reset --hard 08b9c63  and then ./configure shows up.
<OvenWerks> so far 0.7.2 is getting there
 * OvenWerks is installing -dev packages
 * OvenWerks wishes includes were installed by default.
<OvenWerks> vala xlib
<OvenWerks> wrong keyboard...
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer: vala messes up for me on make with font manager.
<OvenWerks> ./configure runs with no errors.
<OvenWerks> vala fontmanager
<OvenWerks> fontmanager build vala trouble
<OvenWerks> :P wrong keyboard...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-08-30
<JLye> can anyone here accept launchpad group submissions for the team ?
<sakrecoer> i'll take care of that membership request. not 100% what the user name is on LP, so i'll doublecheck via email first.
<eylul> hi JLye
<sakrecoer> eylul: i think he left for today
<eylul> oooh that was a playback
<sakrecoer> pretty certain who he is on lp, but i'd rahter be safe than sorry
<eylul> *nods* it makes sense to confirm
<zequence> ardour 5.3 is packaged and ready in unstable. Anyone want to do a sync-request?
<eylul> zequence: how is sync-request done?
<DalekSec> And FFe, I'd think.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks: just got a reply from alessio; it looks like he wants to package the latest fontmanager in debian \o/
<eylul> yay
<DalekSec> Eh, it's full of CSDs and such, else I was going to update locally.
<zequence> eylul: sync-request is a tool you can use, but it is also a thing you can do in order to request a sync from the Debian archive to the Ubuntu archive (most of what is in the Ubuntu archive is automatically imported from Debian up until Debian Import Freeze, which happens 2 months before each release)
<zequence> astraljava: Are you perhaps getting more into development again, or just passing by?
<zequence> astraljava: btw. make sure to check out #ubuntustudio-offtopic
 * zequence had mysteriously departed from it
<astraljava> zequence: Hi! I believe I will be spending more time at a computer on my spare time in the near future, so yes that would be a possibility. Certainly I'm still interested in the project, so I'll continue to hang around and whenever convenient, I'll lend a hand where needed.
<zequence> astraljava: sakrecoer can always benefit from having someone experienced in packaging and coding around. Ross is one, but I'm sort of looking for a way to end my participation soonish.
<zequence> Since I'm yet the only one with upload rights for our source, I will be sticking around until someone else gets it.
<DalekSec> FWIW, font-manager 0.7.2-1 was uploaded...  "Bummer" :P
<krytarik> "Nice."
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-08-31
<sakrecoer> astraljava: good news! :)
<sakrecoer> DalekSec: localy..? bummer? why is that 'nice' with quotes?
 * sakrecoer is curious
<DalekSec> I believe I answered the second question.
<sakrecoer> DalekSec: i ask because i don't get it
<astraljava> zequence: Yeah, thanks for your time and effort! I'll see how my time is spent during the fall/winter, but if nothing too consuming, I should be able to get back in track.
<eylul> zequence: thanks for explaining (and sorry to hear that you plan to leave through) 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-09-01
<flocculant> sakrecoer: just fyi - updates today include font-manager which doesn't hang now
<sakrecoer> good morning! flocculant: thanks! wow! that must be gunnar who arranged the FFe \o/
<flocculant> don't think so - looks like laney +1'd FFe and called it sync request and jbicha sponsored it
<flocculant> might want to do an SRU for xenial now that it's fixed in yakkety :)
<sakrecoer> flocculant: in deed! :)
<FManTropyx> sorry, I have been extremely busy IRL, but I have now updated my mirrors to 16.04.1 at http://z80.guru/mirrors/Ubuntu%20Studio/ and I have also updated the info page at http://z80.guru/pages/UbuntuStudio-mirrors.html to reflect the changes including the new handy subdomain aliases, so do let people know about this option for downloading
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-09-02
<krytarik> So I just committed a fix for LP bug 1617846.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1617846 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "desktop files for gnome color manager have not been removed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617846
<zequence> krytarik: Any other planned changes soonish? Or, should I go ahead and upload?
<krytarik> zequence: Not immediately, nope - please do.
<zequence> krytarik: Did I forget to update the changelog in the bzr branch last time, or something? In the diff I see some small changes to the debian/changelog
<krytarik> Yeeep.
<zequence> Right. I sometimes do that, unfortunately..
<OvenWerks> krytarik: Wow does it actually work like that with just the icon line in the override *desktop files?
 * OvenWerks is talking about the hexter.desktop and hdspmixer.desktop files just changes a few hours ago
<krytarik> OvenWerks: Look at the other ones in there, for example - 'icon' is just another key.
<OvenWerks> krytarik: I understand that much, I was wondering if the menu then takes the rest from the original desktop file
<OvenWerks> Does the application actually start? I guess if the name shows it means everything else works.
<OvenWerks> krytarik: It looks like the generic alsa icon is missing.
<OvenWerks> alsa-tools is the icon name in 16.04
<OvenWerks> alsa-tools-gui should have the alsa-tools.xpm file in it.
<krytarik> OvenWerks: Yeeah, apparently someone confused Debian menu with .desktop files.. :P - https://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-alsa?view=revision&revision=2877
<OvenWerks> krytarik: Sp does that mean it is coming back?
<krytarik> Nope, it means someone will have to file a bug report. :P
<OvenWerks> krytarik: ok I will do that... at least in ubuntu
<OvenWerks> should we create an icon in the meantime?
<OvenWerks> alsa-tools.pxm is not a very nice icon in any case... It is quite low res.
<krytarik> Either way, could ship one in -icon-theme too in the meantime indeed.
<krytarik> OvenWerks: I don't know why SVN sucks so much, but there the full changes.. :P - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/256772632/alsa-tools_1.1.0-0ubuntu1_1.1.0-1.diff.gz
<krytarik> I see LP bug 1619779.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1619779 in alsa-tools (Ubuntu) "alsa-tools.xpm file missing, desktop menu icons missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1619779
<zequence> krytarik: Think SVN sucks because of branch management and the lack of integrity check
<zequence> Or, the way it does branch management, that is
<OvenWerks> krytarik: That looks like the bug I filed :)
<krytarik> hahaha
<krytarik> (Of course it does.)
<OvenWerks> I have 16.10 running on an old P4 hooked up to one of my monitors so I can switch back and forth.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Adding icons to ALSA should be done upstream. Not in Ubuntu Studio
<zequence> At the very least, it should be done in Debian packaging
<OvenWerks> zequence: in general yes.
<OvenWerks> it was removed upstream (see above) and should be readded.
<OvenWerks> my thought was that the one they do include is rather poor, so an alternate is not a bad thing either.
<krytarik> Actually, it's just a packaging issue in Debian - plus the file is still there in the source.
<OvenWerks> So long as it doesn't try to overwrite the package icon it is fine.
<OvenWerks> Good, will it make it in time to be added to 16.10?
<zequence> alsa-tools is maintained by Debian ALSA maintainers
<zequence> So, I can't push any changes there
<zequence> The bug should be filed in Debian as well though
<zequence> And, the bug fix in Ubuntu needs to be a patch, if not a sync from a fixed Debian package
<zequence> Actually, who packages the alsa-tools package in Ubuntu?
 * zequence is not on Ubuntu right now
<zequence> Seems like it's packaged in Debian
<OvenWerks> So including a patch to the bug will not help unless done in debian. (actually it looks like a simple revert)
<zequence> After Debian Import Freeze patching the Ubuntu package is ok
<zequence> But, it needs to be in the form of a patch, since the packagin is done upstream
<zequence> It would be better to fix it in Debian first, and the sync from there, to not having to do the same thing twice
<OvenWerks> I agree.
<zequence> krytarik: Do you spot what the error is, more exactly?
<zequence> It's easy enough to get the source from Debian, and check if it is still there, or someone fixed it recently
<zequence> If not fixed in Debian, I might be able to do a bug report, but not for a couple of days at least (getting late, and tomorrow I have plans)
 * zequence is disappearing for a while
<krytarik> zequence: Yes - the change in 'debian/alsa-tools-gui.install', more specifically.
<zequence> krytarik: Thanks
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-09-03
<DalekSec> font-manager 0.7.2+0git410aa802-1 uploaded
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-08-29
<flexiondotorg> Evening
<flexiondotorg> Who here is running the testing for Ubuntu Studio 17.10 Beta 1?
<flexiondotorg> I see iso got spun on the iso tracker.
<flexiondotorg> But the wiki is not updated.
<flexiondotorg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Beta1
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-08-30
<flexiondotorg> Just checking in to see how testing is going for 17.10 Beta 1?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-08-31
<flexiondotorg> Are Ubuntu Studio still planning to participate in 17.10 Beta 1?
<flexiondotorg> No tests have been completed and the other flavours will all be marked ready in the next hour.
<flexiondotorg> sakrecoer krytarik Are you guys going to complete any iso testing for Ubuntu Studio 17.10 beta 1? 
<flexiondotorg> The release is due today. 
<flexiondotorg> Anyone?
<Rosco2> My email this morning did not make it to the list (from mobile phone with wrong From address for the list)
<Rosco2> But we are testing Artful Beta 1 right now
<Rosco2> They want to release in one hour
<Rosco2> But if you want to test the ISO - please go ahead and let us know how you get on.
<Rosco2> Sorry :-(
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-09-03
<JackWinter1> am working on a wiki for the upcoming linux version of reaper and wanted to ask a few questions: http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/REAPER_for_Linux
<JackWinter1> does ubuntu studio come with a realtime and/or low latency kernel?
<JackWinter1> does it export the interrupts as threads to userland (read rtprio)
<JackWinter1> does it automatically configure rtprio and memlock for the user
<JackWinter1> and finally does it set the sound card handling interrupt thread to a high priority
<JackWinter1> many thanks in advance for any eventual answers and i'd welcome any criticism gor or bad about the article (still a work in progress :)
<JackWinter1> beh s/read rtprio/read threadirq/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-08-27
<Eickmeyer> Nope.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-08-26
<nilg> I suspect there's a bug in ubuntustudio-controls or in my system, I have a `/proc/asound/card1` folder without an `id` subfolder and this crashes ubuntustudio-controls. 
<nilg> Even if it is a bug in my system, I suspect ubuntustudio-controls can be made more robust, however before I start hacking it I'd like to have the latest version. Is 1.7.1 the latest version?
<Eickmeyer[m]> !ubuntustudio-backports | nilg: backports has version 1.10
<ubottu> nilg: backports has version 1.10: The Ubuntu Studio Backports PPA is required for users of Ubuntu Studio to receive LTS support for Ubuntu Studio 18.04, and for #ubuntustudio to support users of Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and its flavors using !jack. For more info, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/BackportsPPA, !ubuntustudio-controls, and !ubuntustudio-installer
<OvenWerks> nilg: what does the trace back look like?
<OvenWerks> (run ubuntustudio-controls from terminal)
<Eickmeyer[m]> nilg: this is not the support channel.
<Eickmeyer[m]> !support
<ubottu> This is the Ubuntu Studio development channel. Our official support channel is on #ubuntustudio. Also see http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=335
<nilg> OvenWerks: I've created the following issue https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls/+bug/1841451
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1841451 in ubuntustudio-controls "ubuntustudio-controls crash if card with no id" [Undecided,New]
<OvenWerks> nilg: could you in a terminal type: ls -l /proc/asound |pastebinit
<OvenWerks> and put the url here?
<nilg> OvenWerks: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9rtpwJqjMb/
<OvenWerks> nilg: I think that is not too hard to fix. Yes I would say if there is no id file the driver or device is not right.
<Eickmeyer> nilg: OvenWerks: Take this to #ubuntustudio. This is not a development discussion. This is a support discussion.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: this is dev
<OvenWerks> nilg: is this usb or internal
<Eickmeyer> How so?
<OvenWerks> gathering info to fix a bug
<nilg> OvenWerks: I have 3 audio devices (enabled at different moments)
<nilg> 1. Internal
<nilg> 2. USB
<nilg> 3. Bluetooth
<nilg> Of course I'm never using or expecting to use the bluetooth device with jack
<OvenWerks> It may be that the USB device chip set does not have a "name" entered
<Eickmeyer> Gathering info to fix a bug is support. Develpment is collaboration to fix the bug. There's a difference, but what do I know. I'm just trying to keep the IRC council happy.
<nilg> I don't mind moving to #ubuntustudio, though to blurry the line further, I don't mind hacking/fixing the bug as well :-)
<OvenWerks> anyway, I think I have enough info to fix it.
<nilg> I suppose a simple try/catch to skip cards without id would do the trick...
<nilg> Awesome!
<OvenWerks> simpler I hope
<Eickmeyer> !bug | nilg: In the future, for a more complete bug report, use this method
<ubottu> nilg: In the future, for a more complete bug report, use this method: If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its official !flavors, please report it using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<Eickmeyer> So, you would've filed that using ubuntu-bug ubuntustudio-controls
<nilg> Oh, thanks.
<Eickmeyer> Either way, I triaged the bug and moved it to the proper place, but I fear it'll get marked as incomplete since it wasn't filed correctly.
<Eickmeyer> That or invalid.
<Eickmeyer> nilg: Also, people in ubuntustudio-devel hang out in #ubuntustudio, so please don't post support questions in here.
<nilg> Got it
<Eickmeyer> Otherwise, why would we have the two channels?
 * Eickmeyer ends rant
<OvenWerks> lint --pedantic  ;)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: We have to follow IRC guidelines. That's part of it.
<teward> *salts Eickmeyer* Python is annoying ain't it
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> *salts teward for reasons*
<teward> I*drags @tsi
<teward> bleh damn phone
<teward> *drags @tsimonq2 out back and buries him*
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: got the other two cheap (under $1) audio devices today... they also have both 44k1 and 48k. I shall have to try running my master at 96k or something.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-08-27
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I saw your "fix committed" on that bug, I'll work on uploading/backporting. I have a little bit of time before the wedding today.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  thank you, I was not sure what to put in the first line of the changelog.
<Eickmeyer> You didn't. I'm just trying to figure out if this is enough to warrant a bump to 1.11 or 1.10.1. I'm leaning towards the former.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It's in eoan-proposed now, backport is taking forever. I'm going to have to bug #launchpad and see if they need to kick it.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-08-28
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: FYI, I am pretty busy in Ardour again. I seem to have made it past my stumbling block in the GUI (well most of them) and need to get this portion of things finished. Each button or function change seems like a new experience :)
<OvenWerks> I do have some more ideas for -controls but will not add them till next cycle. I may even get to the drawing tablets... but audio first. (where there is already a list)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-08-29
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: ack
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'm leaning toward invalidating bug 1841746 since it very much seems like a support request, and it's nearly impossible for a metapackage to have a bug like that being described. Basically, it needs to be narrowed-down, since the meta is too broad.
<ubottu> bug 1841746 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Installing ubntustudio-audio causes hang at login" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1841746
<Eickmeyer> As for bug 1839182, perhaps that's a bug in tk/tcl?
<ubottu> bug 1839182 in ubuntustudio-installer (Ubuntu) "Error: divie by zero" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1839182
<studiobot> <teward001> > division by zero
<studiobot> <teward001> can we somehow blame Simon for this ð
<Eickmeyer> @teward001 Absolutely. Only tsimonq2 can cause the universe to implode like that.
<OvenWerks> yup bug... three of them actually.
<OvenWerks> well maybe only two
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So, what are we looking at for 1841746?
<OvenWerks> I have asked for more information
<OvenWerks> until the user answers I don't know
<Eickmeyer> And for 1839182, should we reassign to tk/tcl or is it definitely an issue with -installer?
<OvenWerks> he did say that the fix button wasn't available meaning jack was correctly installed.
<OvenWerks> 182 is an installer problem. the possibility of that being zero should be checked for. both in the place listed and a few lines up? (or is that down?)
<OvenWerks> anyway there are two of them
<OvenWerks> I have to first figgure out what they are doing because they down't look right logically either... but because they work I probably just don't know what they are trying to do. The problem would likely be there no matter of it was tcl, python, perl or c++
<Eickmeyer> Ok, so definitely a bug in -installler. Then I'll leave it as-is.
<OvenWerks> From a first glance it looks like the progress bar should be going down instead of up :P
<Eickmeyer> He did respond in 1841746, and I reiterated the question you asked about running ubuntustudio-controls again. No response so far to that.
<OvenWerks> So obviously I don't know what the numbers are. I thought they were *% numbers but that doesn't make sense
<OvenWerks> yes but he had answered or at least given me the information I had hoped to get the questions I asked
<OvenWerks> There was no "fix" button to press, so it did not need it.
<Eickmeyer> Ok
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: do you remember when running installer if the process bar stops after downloading and then jumps when it start setting the packages up and then sits till the end?
<Eickmeyer> I don't remember that clearly. I'd have to play with it.
<OvenWerks> (thats what the code looks like)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: With your latest comment on bug 1841746, I'm guessing that bug is a support request more than anything else. Agree?
<ubottu> bug 1841746 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Installing ubntustudio-audio causes hang at login" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1841746
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: if there is one of our packages either by installing or by running that causes this problem, it is a bug.
<OvenWerks> IE if installing ubuntustudio-performance-tweaks without lowlatency causes a problem then depends needs to change
<OvenWerks> if running jack, zita-ajbridge, etc. causes the DE to stall or not start we need to know.
<Eickmeyer> Here's the seed for -audio: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gXJGrVtk85/ 
<Eickmeyer> There is absolutely nothing there that can cause this.
<Eickmeyer> The only thing in -performance-tweaks could be the timer perms.
<OvenWerks> Oh, the actual package the bug belongs to is not yet established
<OvenWerks> it could also be the extra codecs from audio-core for all I know (or their lack?)
<OvenWerks> none of those things are running at session start
<OvenWerks> and things in */autostart should not be starting till after the DE has already started
<OvenWerks> Normally if the DE has started and then part of it dies, the crash box comes up and asks if you want to send a bug
<OvenWerks> if that doesn't happen, it would seem it should be the WM that didn't start
<OvenWerks> if the WM doesn't start, I would expect the user to end up back in the login screen
<OvenWerks> unless... systemd changes this
<Eickmeyer> No, systemd doesn't manage that at all. That's all the DM.
<OvenWerks> So we have the problem, we need the relevent logfiles from a prooer bug report but the user can't provide such a bug report because the system hangs
<OvenWerks> So we have to trouble shoot the old fashioned way :P
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yes, we need to get them into the proper support channel. Problem is, this is not a bug until it is determined to actually be a bug, whether perceived or not. Right now, the bug report is invalid since he didn't even have -performance-tweaks installed.
<Eickmeyer> It's a support request until it's determined to be a bug, which is not how Launchpad works. Bug reports should only be bug reports once they are determined to actually be a bug.
<Eickmeyer> So, after all the troubleshooting steps have been done and the bug is found, then it needs to be a bug report, not before.
<Eickmeyer> Also, considering the thousands of people running Ubuntu (and our metas) on Dell XPS 13s without issue, I'm inclined to believe this is a home directory configuration problem.
<OvenWerks> Ga, the math is all wrong in installer. What was I thinking?
<Eickmeyer> At least we're at a good time in the cycle for bug fixes.
<OvenWerks> It is uploaded but I can't test it without first installing another flavour to test it on :)
<OvenWerks> so don't release it till I test.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ack
 * OvenWerks is zsyncing kubuntu...
<OvenWerks> 74.4% :P
<Eickmeyer> I've seen worse (had 50% the other day on the seed file).
 * tsimonq2 salts Eickmeyer 
 * Eickmeyer peppers tsimonq2
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-08-30
<OvenWerks> Huh, Muon actually asks about package questions before it even starts installing, rather than part way through
<OvenWerks> Huh, in controls when trying to start Carla if it is not installed there is a crash report. ubuntu-bug ubuntustudio-controls
<OvenWerks> it won't let me cause it loaded it from autobuilds... cause I needed to try out installer from there
<OvenWerks> Anyway, installer works nice, the progress bar moving nicely through the whole install.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-controls/+bug/1842012https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-controls/+bug/1842012
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1842012 in ubuntustudio-controls (Ubuntu) "Crash report when starting Carla" [Undecided,New]
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: and this one is now tested: Bug #1839182 and marked fix committed. It is ready for release
<ubottu> bug 1839182 in ubuntustudio-installer (Ubuntu) "Error: divie by zero" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1839182
<Eickmeyer> Ok, I'll get on that asap.
<OvenWerks> Basically it seems the / and * were swapped
<Eickmeyer> Ah, yes. Multiply instead of divide and vice versa. Bad math is bad.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, reboot to my working partition
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: maybe not right now, but next cycle... maybe add a button to the system page (where performance/ondemand is) with a dropdown to select default kernel for next boot
<OvenWerks> Only show it/enable it if more than one kernel is available
<OvenWerks> because we list them as option one or zero, it should be easy to set default to either 0 or 1.
<Eickmeyer> Hmmm.... that doesn't make sense. There's a way to select that from grub and have it automatically go to the last option booted.
<Eickmeyer> I'd rather we kept that within the grub configuration itself.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: Bug #1842012 is fix commited now too
<ubottu> bug 1842012 in ubuntustudio-controls (Ubuntu) "Crash report when starting Carla" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1842012
<Eickmeyer> OK, is that ready for release as well then?
<OvenWerks> yes
<OvenWerks> It now checks to make sure /usr/bin/carla exists and is +x
<Eickmeyer> Cool.
<OvenWerks> I should have done that when carla was no longer a depends
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, well... at least we have a fix now rather than after release.
<OvenWerks> anyway, testing is good
<Eickmeyer> Cool.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-08-31
<sofastrangler> I have been thinking of like the future of ubuntu studio in terms of branding/marketing, visuals, social media presence and stuff, and I'm interested in contributing. So I wonder if there is interest in having someone contribute that stuff. I'm @christalleras@mastodon.art on the fediverse.
<sofastrangler> This is super awkward, but IDK any other way of reaching out and stuff. It's probably stupid and the wrong channel Cx
<OvenWerks> Not the wrong channel (I think) but Eickmeyer is on holidays and may not answer right away.
<OvenWerks> He would be the one to talk to.
<Eickmeyer> sofastrangler: I'm the one who handles most of that stuff. And, as you can imagine, it's very difficult to find someone trustworthy enough to take-on that kind of role. So, that to say, hang around here and collaborate with us on ideas.
<Eickmeyer> I'll try to ping you when OvenWerks and I (and sometimes others, including teward) have discussions so that you can be included. :)
<sofastrangler> Yeah, I'd imagine this
 * Eickmeyer realizes he pinged teward for absolutely no reason other than to mess with him
<sofastrangler> Or I expected that kind of
<sofastrangler> I'll stick around, and you'll see what I have to offer
<sofastrangler> I also have experience with organizational work and leadership as a general secretary of a political youth organization and the county leader with years of experience as a treasurer and stuff if that is of interest too.
<Eickmeyer> Awesome. We have someone working on a new website theme for us, so that kind of thing is coming. Also, eylul (@azbutulu on Telegram) is here as well and has historically handled the artwork side of things. That said, you're more than welcome to contribute that way. :)
<sofastrangler> I know Eylul from before! :)
<Eickmeyer> Again, something where you'll kinda have to "prove yourself" for lack of a better term. :)
<Eickmeyer> Awesome! Eylul is great.
<sofastrangler> Yeah.
<sofastrangler> The first thing that comes to mind is a marketing strategy and branding strategy. I'd put some time making two PDFs as how I think it would work well for ubuntu studio which you can do whatever with and go from there.
<sofastrangler> Although I am right now working more than full-time during election time, but I'll start working on it from about 10th of September
<sofastrangler> And I'll post it here as a link when I am done.
<sofastrangler> If it is not of interest I'll just trash it and move on
<Eickmeyer> Okay, sounds good. We have someone working on the website, and I like the direction that is going. I'm getting a link for the prototype.
<Eickmeyer> http://ubuntustudio.playmain.com
<Eickmeyer> sofastrangler: ^
<Eickmeyer> So, I'm sure you can figure out some ideas based on that. :)
<sofastrangler> Yeah, I'm not a webdesigner or anything so I won't go into that. But I can come with improvements when it comes to visuals and stuff I guess. But what I am more interested is a cohesive plan for how to reach people and target audiences, while delivering a consistant experience between the website, social media and the distro itself.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, totally. I've been working on that myself. Feel free to throw ideas my way.
<sofastrangler> I'll make a finished thing which people here can pick and choose from and with like different paths and stuff like that.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, that sounds great. :)
<sofastrangler> But I won't pretend to be a professional marketing dude or marketing officanado. But I think I have some experience and knowledge that will come to use!
<sofastrangler> One simple idea though
<sofastrangler> Is the website update going to be scheduled to be released with the next LTS or .10 version?
<Eickmeyer> Basically, as soon as possible. I'm waiting for the developer to feel as though the theme is ready, then he's going to upload it and the assets to a git repo. From there, we'll security check it, and then if it passes, release it. Just takes time with volunteers, you know. :)
<sofastrangler> Oh, okay.
<sofastrangler> I'm not saying you shouldn't go right away. But what I'd go for is working up a lot of changes and releasing it when there is a new LTS or similar, I know it is a long time and stuff.
<sofastrangler> It kind of takes a lot of time to explain so I might wait until I've made the PDFs
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. We've thought about that, but there were compelling reasons not to, such as the fact that the website has had the same theme for nearly the past decade.
<sofastrangler> Yeah, heheh
<sofastrangler> Maybe something to do next time
<sofastrangler> then
<sofastrangler> ;)
<sofastrangler> I like this new theme and visuals a lot though
<Eickmeyer> Same. I was super impressed when they approached us. Of course, I enlisted Eylul with the logistics and history on it since we went down a road similar to this before. But, we'll see what happens. Hopefully it will actually work this time.
<Eickmeyer> If not, we have other ideas how to logistically pull it off.
<sofastrangler> Looking at this I feel like my contribution is less needed honestly
<Eickmeyer> I'd still love to see what ideas you have. :)
<sofastrangler> Wha, are you only supporting the 18.04 for only 9 months or is that a typo?
<sofastrangler> Yeah, seems so "This is the latest LTS-based regular release, which we (the Ubuntu Studio team) will be supporting until April 2021 with the Ubuntu Studio Backports PPA."
<Eickmeyer> Which is why we have...
<Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-backports
<ubottu> The Ubuntu Studio Backports PPA is required for users of Ubuntu Studio to receive LTS support for Ubuntu Studio 18.04, and for #ubuntustudio to support users of Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and its flavors using !jack. For more info, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/BackportsPPA, !ubuntustudio-controls, and !ubuntustudio-installer
<sofastrangler> Oh, so it isn't a typo? I'm confused
<Eickmeyer>  18.04 was released as a non-LTS for a huge number of reasons, including the fact that I was the release manager and I had only been with the project for a month at that point. I, nor anybody else, felt comfortable with releasing it as an LTS considering it was identical to 16.04. But, with the addition of the backports PPA, we can continue to support it. The only thing is the .iso image will not change.
<sofastrangler> Oh, I see
<sofastrangler> Makes sense
<Eickmeyer> One thing to always remember: Ubuntu Studio (and the other official flavors) /are/ Ubuntu, and not separate distributions. It's just what's included by default that's different.
<OvenWerks> However the software in the repo will be supported for longer just because other flavours are.
<sofastrangler> BTW, you could way wait with the website change until January when the 20.04 comes, then make it live as quickly as the Iso is out
<Eickmeyer> 20.04 comes out in April.
<OvenWerks> so rather than having a .1 .2 .3 .4, etc. release there is just the one and the first update may take a while
<sofastrangler> Oh, dang
<sofastrangler> But yeah, this will be good
<Eickmeyer> When 20.04 comes out, 18.04 will be dropped from the website and users of 18.04 will be urged to upgrade.
<sofastrangler> Cool
<Eickmeyer> teward is going to be working on (if not already) reviving the official Ubuntu backports repo, so hopefully we'll be able to use that in the future.
<sofastrangler> BTW, is there like "pictures of the program being used" that are needed? And would it be of interest to have them GIFed?
<sofastrangler> (Specificly with graphics program)
<Eickmeyer> Not sure. The static shots on the website definitely need to be updated, as do the ones in the .iso installer (something I intend to work on within the next week).
<sofastrangler> Yeah, I was thinking of the website pictures. I see there are a lot of programs that kind of probably would want to be front more like "Krita rather than mypaint for example"
<sofastrangler> which are missing too, but this is already known. Just hit me up if there is anything missing that you would want a optional contribution for.
<Eickmeyer> Okay. Thanks!
 * Eickmeyer goes afk
<teward> *leaves lizards in Eickmeyerâs workspace*
<Eickmeyer> teward: Joke's on you. I don't have a workspace. 
<teward> lol.  Your pants then :P
<teward> Backports is... a headache xD  There are a lot of policy changes that need to be applied with a Backports change, and I got a bit busy to drive backports currently, but soon I shall return and see where it stands.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-09-01
<studiobot> <teward001> oh, and side note, even if we do get the policy changes to Backports made, we don't want to overload it immediately lol
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> *salts @teward001 for Reasons*
<studiobot> <teward001> *returns the salt with a flamethrower*
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> *returns the flamethrower with a hydrogen bomb*
<studiobot> <teward001> *returns the hydrogen bomb with a fifty-thousand ton glitterbomb*
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> *returns the fifty-thousand ton glitterbomb with a hundred-thousand ton box of horse... output*
<studiobot> <teward001> *transports Simon into the center of a garbage dump*
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> *switches place with Thomas*
<studiobot> <teward001> *is already in a garbage dump*
<studiobot> <teward001> you just transported yourself into a worse place
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> hahahahaha
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I canât leave you two alone for a second. ð
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> @Eickmeyer [I canât leave you two alone for a second. ð], *salts @Eickmeyer*
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-08-27
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Added threadirqs to the lowlatency boot, and it will work so long as lowlatency-settings is installed. There's really no disadvantage to it.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-08-28
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: Check your telegram DMs when you have a chance. I can't believe the dragonfly-reverb developers fixed it that quick.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-08-29
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ok.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: quick question: do we include libsoundtouch in our depends for Ardour? I am not sure if I just missed it before or if it is a new depends for 6.3 (or 6.something)
 * OvenWerks builds Ardour again
<OvenWerks> cpu temp goes from 30C to 65C for the next 16 minutes
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It's a Debian synced package now. We do nothing that isn't done by Debian.
<OvenWerks> ok
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-08-30
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So, to answer your question further, doesn't look like it: https://salsa.debian.org/multimedia-team/ardour/-/blob/master/debian/control
<Eickmeyer> Might be new to 6.3 then.
<OvenWerks> yeah I just noticed it the last time I did a ./waf configure
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: so are you moved yet? (as in out of the old and at the new... if not set up at the new)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: KIndof. I have my infrastructure quasi-set-up, but we're on butt-slow DSL. Downloading our ISO takes several hours. Upgrade coming soon, but my mother-in-law doesn't want to upgrade her internet, so we're going behind her back and ordering separate cable internet for ourselves.
<OvenWerks> but beds to sleep on... table to eat at and stuff like that?
<Eickmeyer> Oh yeah, we've got that.
<Eickmeyer> When we get into our own place it will be a matter of buying new furniture and stuff like that. We do intend to buy a house in this area.
