#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-28
<dutchie> Azelphur: i hope you have about 15 million gigs of ram too
<ali1234> so what kind of server are you going to make?
<Azelphur> 8GB with more if needed
<ali1234> PvP?
<Azelphur> atm it's creative, It isn't set in stone yet though
 * ali1234 guesses the server name correctly first time
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha you found it?
<Azelphur> ali1234: you must be chinnybob :P
<ali1234> guilty
<Azelphur> :)
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> aww i was watching videos early last week on minecraft
<daftykins> but i didn't want to pay for something ahead of a trial
<daftykins> do i sound crazy? :>
<Azelphur> nah, my friend was asking for a trial too earlier
<daftykins> oh you can run your own server and let people on?
<ali1234> only if they bought it
<ali1234> it's well worth the money though
<Azelphur> ali1234: re minecraft, I have weird issues where it lags for single players but not others
<ali1234> the network code is pretty rubbish
<Azelphur> it's happened to me a bunch of times, where I'll type something in minecraft, and see it come up in the server over ssh 20 seconds before it appears in the text box on the client for example
<daftykins> :)
<ali1234> round-trip ping...
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> aw, and i nearly had the roof on
<Azelphur> ali1234: lol, it's not released yet as I say
<Azelphur> it will be getting reset
<Azelphur> I'm in the midst of setting it up
<ali1234> you should turn mobs on, it's too easy withut them
<Azelphur> but they destroy your magical creation
<ali1234> not if you build it properly
<Azelphur> true :P
<ali1234> anyway, no lag issues, only the usual minecraft bugs
<Azelphur> ali1234: we're all discussing it on my irc channel, I'm kinda making decisions in the cloud :p
<Azelphur> so if you wanna join I'll raise the idea :P
<ali1234> didn't see any chunk errors either, so that's good
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> just getting a few nice plugins for it now
<Azelphur> mainly player ability to toggle PVP mode, Ability to lock things, Version control, and banning fire :P
<ali1234> i guess you'll want to ban TNT too then
<Azelphur> nah, TNT has it's uses
<Azelphur> fire doesn't really lol
<Azelphur> *shrug* might ban TNT too
<ali1234> oh yeah, without mobs you can make arrows but not a bow
<ali1234> and you can't make TNT
<Azelphur> hehe :P
<HazRPG> hey all
<arsen> daftykins   lol
<arsen> funny how "coarseness" has my name in it :(
<HazRPG> arsen: it does?
<HazRPG> Woot! Just caught my first pokemon!
<HazRPG> same there isn't a working emu for DreamCast on linux
 * HazRPG looks at his Jet Set Radio box sadly
<cardinalzero> morning
<HazRPG> \o
<cardinalzero> hey HazRPG how are you today
<HazRPG> cardinalzero: I'm good thanks, how's you?
<HazRPG> how's everyone doing this morning?
<jam> connect irc.esper.net
<HazRPG> there's a / missing from that :P
<HazRPG> hmm, I'm having trouble calibrating my ps3 controller
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> does the kernel log the timestamp the message was generated, or the time the message was logged in /var/log/messages?
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: the kernel logs a (its own) time stamp
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: the time in /var/log/kern.log is the time it was received/processed by syslog
<kazade> o/
<AlanBell> morning all
<jam> ooer didn't know i was in this channel
<jam> Good morning
<AlanBell> hi jam
<DJones> Morning all
<AlanBell> speaking of jam, I think it is time for some toast
<jam> strawberry of course
<HazRPG> hey all :)
<BigRedS> G'morning!
 * BigRedS notes that Joomla doesn't like PHP5.3
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o daubers
<JamesTait> Guten Morgen bis alles! GlÃ¼cklich Montag!
<MartijnVdS> GlÃ¼ckliche* ;)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mungojerry> hello
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> what is the most secure way to set up a VPN in ubuntu?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS: Thanks for the correction. I'm actually quite pleased that that was the only one!
<popey> !vpn
<lubotu3> For more information on vpn please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VPN
<HazRPG> I thought vpn was already a built-in function?
<HazRPG> or at least OpenVPN was...
<daubers> \o/ openVPN
<HazRPG> hurray for chicken!
<pr0ph3t> erhm, sorry I am not connecting to an existing VPN, I need to connect to my linux box from another machine through a VPN,  if that make sense
<pr0ph3t> so I need to set up the VPN
<pr0ph3t> on ubuntu
<Myrtti> do you need vpn or would any vpn like solution suffice?
<pr0ph3t> Myrtti a PtPP VPN
<pr0ph3t> it's to connect remotely to VLC mainly, to stream media from remote
<pr0ph3t> basically is what in windows is called an incoming connection? That's how I set it up on windows 7
<Myrtti> right
<pr0ph3t> does that make sense?
<pr0ph3t> so I want to set up a VPN server on ubuntu, that's what I need to do, I think
<popey> !openvpn
<popey> :)
<lubotu3> OpenVPN is a vpn technology in Ubuntu, sudo apt-get install openvpn and then see http://openvpn.net/ and see the documentation "HOWTO" noting you have already installed it. ;-) It rocks!
<drivlex> join #the_nexus
<drivlex> ergh
<pr0ph3t> thanks popey
<directhex> openvpn is hard to get right
<directhex> and a PITA with windows clients
<directhex> openvpn is not pptp
<directhex> using pptpd involves setting up Samba for windows active directory nonsense
<daubers> directhex: Any VPN tech is hard to get right.
<Myrtti> for any other use I'd recommend ssh portforwarding, but I suppose the throughput might be too little with ssh taking its toll
<pr0ph3t> directhex, so if I need the point to point protocol I should use pptpd, or it doesn't matter I can use openvpn because they are both difficult to set up?
<MartijnVdS> Argh
<MartijnVdS> Another bug I reported has been marked duplicate of something
<MartijnVdS> I don't know what that "something" is though
<Myrtti> ptpp is just a term for one type of vpn
<MartijnVdS> as the bug is s3kr1t
<Myrtti> a vpn is a vpn
<DJones> This could be a bit inconvinient for vodafone customers http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12595681 disruption after a break-in in Basingstoke
<screen-x> hi all :)
<BigRedS> good morning!
<davmor2> morning all
<daubers> The more I read about the banshee/amazon thing, the more I start wondering how many of the more ... loud... FOSS advocates may be a bit out of touch with reality (and possibly leaning towards the marxist type philosophy)
<daubers> Not that that's a bad thing. Just quite an interesting thing appearing because of assorted events
<directhex> i understand all sides on the matter
<directhex> part of it is sticker shock
<directhex> i.e. "btw, we've never contributed to your app but we're taking 75% and your milkshake. kkthxbye"
<directhex> which isn't entirely fair. canonical people are behind the mpris plugin afaik, and they've taken over maintainership of the u1ms plugin
<Laney> i thought bertrand wrote mpris
<ali1234> daubers: lots and lots of them are completely nuts
<ali1234> \o/
<directhex> Laney, did he? i'll check git
<Laney> doing too!
<Laney> race you
<directhex> "free software advocates" are mostly non-contributing nutjobs with blogs
<daubers> Yeah, I can see both sides, but it seems a bit nieve to not expect a corporate entity to want to make money out of something that they spend resources on integrating
<ali1234> directhex: advocacy is a contribution (lol)
<directhex> ali1234, "free software advocates" turn off people, not turn them on. they actively reduce free software adoption.
<ali1234> directhex: yeah i know, hence (lol)
<Myrtti> daubers: s/nieve/naÃ¯ve/
<directhex> daubers, who spent the resources, though? Laney has done more for banshee integration than all of canonical combined, and he's not even banshee maintainer
<directhex> do canonical need funding? yes. but there needs to have been a significantly more transparent approach to the question of affiliate revenue in apps
<directhex> what next, switching paypal donate links in gnome-do?
<daubers> directhex: Maybe, but they're still giving up resources on their "product" (i.e. the Ubuntu Desktop, CD, blah blah blah) when they could spend resources making a banshee clone (ignoring the same arguments that would bring up)
<ali1234> if gnome-do was the official UI, then probably
<daubers> directhex: That I agree on, as much as I dislike the Apple "we take 25% of everything" approach, at least it's predictable
<mungojerry> daubers: the irony is that some trolls who have been commenting widely on blogs regarding the banshee thing have been saying "i hope Mint/other project replace canonicals referral code and take the revenue".
<mungojerry> so it sounds more like canonical hate...
<directhex> daubers, it's more emotive than the previous times they've done it (e.g. firefox) because the money is being redirected from the non-profit gnome foundation. i.e. banshee devs wrote the addin to make money for gnome, and canonical's approach can be summed up as "yoink!"
<daubers> I thought some other distros already replaced the code anyway? Or was that misinformation?
<mungojerry> daubers: i would expect that they do replace it too
<screen-x> banshee should pop up a dialogue when you first access the amazon store that says "who dya wanna support" with a load of logos underneath..
<ali1234> "not amazon"
<Myrtti> I'm so envious at czajkowski and her holiday by a swimming pool it hurts...
<mungojerry> :(
<mungojerry> haven't seen the sun in over 5 yrs
 * mungojerry needs to get over his issues with flying
<Myrtti> I don't really like being on a beach holiday, but any kind of holiday would be lovely
 * daubers is looking forward to his boating holiday
<Myrtti> mungojerry: you don't want to live my life then...
<directhex> flying is fine. it's bridges that scare me
<screen-x> Myrtti: Beaches are for launching :)
<screen-x> daubers: boating++
<Myrtti> or even less my bf's life
<daubers> directhex: bridges--
<mungojerry> directhex: at least you can close your eyes over a bridge...flying and the whole rigmorole is too much
<mungojerry> for a whole day more or less
<Myrtti> he flies twice a week approximately
<daubers> mungojerry: Not advisable if you're driving over said bridge
<mungojerry> :)
<directhex> mungojerry, dealing with airport security is poopy, but i'm fine with the flying part
<Myrtti> flew yesterday, flies on thursday, then on sunday, and then again on sunday
<directhex> always have been
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 3rd 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Flying, beaches, bridges.
<directhex> was flying unaccompanied from age 5
<davmor2> Myrtti: don't be she'll have a fortnights worth of grief off of me to make up for her not being here this week :D
<mungojerry> i used to fly a lot
<mungojerry> but then developed a bit of a phobia
<Myrtti> davmor2: I'm sure whatever you'll come up with is less than what I have in my hands.
<mungojerry> i could always try valium..
<davmor2> Myrtti: That sounds so wrong :D
<screen-x> mungojerry: I would have thought a good code problem/book/film would be more effective
<mungojerry> screen-x: it's more that it makes me v stressed and unwell..
<mungojerry> meaning that airport and claustrophobia of a plane would be v difficult
<daubers> mungojerry: In that case stop taking bad code problems/books/films :p
<mungojerry> the wife understands though..she prefers sunny england
<screen-x> mungojerry: wheres that?
<mungojerry> east of utopia and up the road from atlantic
<mungojerry> atlantis
 * AlanBell looks at davmor2 and points to the naughty step
<Myrtti> davmor2: I'm too tired to make innuendos or understand possible puns I might be making, so if it sounds wrong, then it wasn't meant to.
<davmor2> daubers: the best of the whole canonical thing is, due to canonical having their own agreement with amazon and their own code they could of legitimately swapped it out and not told anyone, no one would be any wiser this has all kicked off because Canonical were trying to do the right thing and use their code that they are allowed to do but still give something back :)
<davmor2> Myrtti: Forgiven :)  You're not sound on top form everything okay?
<mungojerry> btw i heard that the unity screen that appears when you click the ubuntu icon is supposed to be full -screen..not on mine - anyone?
<daubers> In all honesty, I don't think I care too much about the whole thing. It doesn't affect any engineering decision, and business stuff is just a bit too dull to catch my interest these days
<Myrtti> davmor2: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/02/25/%23ubuntu-uk.html#t20:29
<popey> :( Myrtti
<davmor2> Myrtti: Arse! Sorry to hear that
<mungojerry> :(
<daubers> Myrtti: That sucks
<Myrtti> for fun and profit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholangiocarcinoma - I've not managed to read past the first sentence of third paragraph
<Myrtti> anyway, need to go to the national health insurance office to file some claims for mum
<Myrtti> ttfn
<SuperMatt> http://www.supermatt.net/Pictures/Misc/desktop-28-02-2011.jpg
<SuperMatt> that's how I'm rocking mt desktop right now
<mungojerry> he's behind the tree
<pr0ph3t> I'm getting this message: MPPE required but peer negotiation failed, from pppd, which terminates. I am trying to connect to my VPN server without encryption because the client does not support it so I disabled it in the file /etc/ppp/options.pptp, but I still get the error message. Is there anywhere else I should remove the Encryption option?
<daubers> SuperMatt: http://daubers.co.uk/~matt/desktop.png
<SuperMatt> natty or maverick?
<daubers> Natty
<SuperMatt> I tried to install natty, but I couldn't install nvidia drivers at the same time as xserver
<SuperMatt> so I dropped back to maverick
<SuperMatt> maybe I'll try natty again next month
<ali1234> that happens every time
<ali1234> every time time during alpha i mean
 * SuperMatt nods
<SuperMatt> I'll wait a tiny bit longer, I'm in no rush
<SuperMatt> though I ask myself: what is gnome 3 going to be like?
<ali1234> "even worse"
<pr0ph3t> SuperMatt, daubers, http://i55.tinypic.com/2n8u879.png
<SuperMatt> "Microsoft gets a lot of stick for producing clunky software. But even during the dark days of the animated paperclip, or the infuriating ".docx" Word extension, they never shat out anything as abominable as iTunes â a hideous binary turd that transforms the sparkling world of music and entertainment into a stark, unintuitive spreadsheet." <- Oh Charlie Brooker, I love you even more now
<pr0ph3t> ahaha
<ali1234> so true. people who think apple products are successfuly because they are easy to use and therefore should be copied, really need to put the mouse down and walk away from the computer
<SuperMatt> "No one uses terms like "sync" in real life. Not even C3PO. If I sync my DVD collection with yours, will I end up with one, two, or no copies of Santa Claus the Movie? It's like trying to work out the consequences of time travel, but less fun, and with absolutely no chance of being adapted into a successful screenplay."
<screen-x> and then they came up with the iPod iOS app, which is worse.
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I did enjoy that
<SuperMatt> I thought iTunes was good in the early days
<BigRedS> except his apparent liking of moving music around by dragging and dropping the files
<SuperMatt> It played music, and that was what it did
<BigRedS> that seems like a completely retarded way to do it as far as I can see
<SuperMatt> now it does everything, apparently
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: yeah, the last time I used iTunes it seems quite alright. about five years ago or so?
<ali1234> BigRedS: why use a different metaphore for moving files, depending on what the file contains? that makes NO sense at all
<ali1234> what if you don't know what the file contains? what then??
<BigRedS> ali1234: What? That's precisely the problem with moving it around as files. I want to move my songs based on what the song is, not on where the file happens to be
<ali1234> thing is, if you don't use stuff like itunes, you'll actually know where the file "happened to be" - where you left it
<ali1234> itunes is like when your mum tidies up your room and you can't find anything for weeks
<BigRedS> ali1234: Only if I particularly cared where it went when I got it, and I generally don't
<BigRedS> I don't see why I'd need to, my music player appears to be able to find my music, index it and play it. I want to use exactly the information with which I choose music to play, to choose music to put on my mp3 player
<BigRedS> to have to go from the rather nice abstraction of songs, artists and albums back into files on teh filesystem just seems like a backwards step
<BigRedS> one which should be perfectly permissible, but it's a bit annoying that it's somehow seen as the process to aim for
<ali1234> what you call a "nice abstraction of song..." i call a slow abomination of confusing mislabelled nonsense
<BigRedS> my songs are generally labelled correctly and named atrociously. I can't rely on the filenames, and drag and drop requires that I do
<pr0ph3t> well I guess it might be useful for people like me that can't be asked to name the songs correctly and would rather have it done automatically
<pr0ph3t> although I hate it when I have to help my girlfriend use her mac
<Baikonur> i watch way too much british tv
<ali1234> more to the point though, if the computer knows where the files are because it indexed them, why can't it display them in a heirarchical structure that is compatible with the standard file browser?
<ali1234> like a gnomevfs but for your music library
<ali1234> this would solve the problem for everyone
<shauno> I think the catch is, it's not a problem for everyone
<ali1234> it's a problem for people even if they don't know it
<ali1234> because when you learn to use itunes, those skills do not translate to any other application
<ali1234> but file manager always works
<shauno> except when it doesn't
<ali1234> the only time it doesn't is when it has been deliberately crippled, like on macs, or windows if you don't turn off "hide hidden files and known file extensions"
<shauno> I have a playlist of the n most played songs in my library, which I keep synced to portable devices.  I can't even begin to think how I'd replicate that searching a filesystem
<ali1234> what do you do when you want to backup all your music?
<shauno> it's already backed up, but it's just a big folder to sync to another drive/machine
<mungojerry> i was given an itunes vocher for my bday (today :) ) what should i do?
<directhex> mungojerry, ebay!
<dwatkins> I would be amused if you got more for it on ebay than it's worth, mungojerry.
<shauno> it wouldn't be unusual
<mungojerry> directhex: yeah, on the back of the itunes card it says it can't be refunded for money..even if it doesn't work on my pc
<s-fox> =)
 * DJones is in shock, somebody has just come into work to book a holiday and is happy paying Â£9,000 per night for a hotel room
<Laney> :-O
<Myrtti> sounds like a honeymoon
<Laney> what kind of hotel can you get for that?
<Myrtti> I'd rather pay 9000 for a hotel room than have a ring of that price
<DJones> Laney: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1060285/Pictured-Inside-800m-Dubai-hotel-boasting-13-000-night-suite-dolphins-flown-South-Pacific.html
<DJones> Laney: Its not even a honeymoon, they just wanted a few nights away....Have they not heard of Blackpool
<DJones> And the Â£9,000 doesn't include flights
<Myrtti> also: ARRRRGGGHHH I've increased Daily Fails visitor count by atleast one :-<
<Myrtti> why, why did I click the link
<DJones> They've booked the room with fish tank wall
<DJones> Myrtti: At least I didn't hide it in a short url
<Myrtti> DJones: indeed
<DJones> With hindsight, I could have linked to a Rick Ghastly video :)
<Laney> that is fairly ghastly actually
<Laney> give me a b&b in bournemouth ta
 * AlanBell prefers hotels where they don't serve dolphin
<DJones> ali1234: Thats always a plus
<mungojerry> friend of mine paid Â£6k for a honeymoon and there was a hurricane on the island
<screen-x> mungojerry: I dont think you get custom weather systems for Â£6k
 * popey pokes directhex with a pm
<hellomrjack> hi, im just having a bit of a problem with a program im using, its called pfhoe and its camera tracking software. the problem is that it isnt finding the libtiff (3) lib even though I do have it aliased#
<hellomrjack> its closed source as well so i cannot re compile it
<mungojerry> what's the error you are receiving hellomrjack
<hellomrjack> http://codepad.org/2s7JKFDW
<hellomrjack> in my /usr/lib i do have libtiff.so.3 though
<mungojerry> can you type echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<hellomrjack> /opt/ati-stream-sdk-v2.3/lib/x86_64/::/home/jack/NGL/lib
<hellomrjack> i thought /usr/lib was included by default
<mungojerry> you could try: export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib:${LD_LIBRARY_PATH}
<mungojerry> although it's not a permanent solution yet, it's to test that it work
<hellomrjack> yep that gets past that problem but now its got this http://codepad.org/VPDRDHl2
<hellomrjack> ah i might not have installed the 32bit libs since i reinstalled
<hellomrjack> ah i just needed to link the 32bit libs
<mungojerry> cool
<mungojerry> you can make it permanent by editing the .bashrc or .bash_profile to modify the LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<mungojerry> not sure where you have it defined
<Myrtti> ho-hum, Monday feeling kicked in
 * Laney is enjoying Other Peoples Codeâ¢
<MooDoo> hello all
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mukka, how's the world treating you
<davmor2> popey: you created a bug a while ago about software-center not saying it was in Secure mode do you know what bug nuber it was at all?
<davmor2> number even
<popey> hmm
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm on a late shift today, so rubbish :)
<davmor2> :(
<popey> bug 637649
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 637649 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Single sign on page doesn't look secure" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/637649
<davmor2> popey: thanks
<popey> np
<kazade> ok peeps, aside from implementing the streaming API, anyone have any wishlist requests for a Twitter client?
<popey> should have reply and reply-all
<popey> retweet should let me edit before posting
<popey> I should be able to use my own url shortening service
<DJones> Similar to tweetdeck to have a window for a seatch/hashtag
<popey> images should appear inline, but when clicked they should open in a new windows
<popey> i.e. not in a browser at tinypic.com
<DJones> identi.ca + farcebook api's
<gord> <everything that is in gwibber but less laggy>
<DJones> Definable update intervals
<kazade> popey, so you want just a dialog window containing the image?
<popey> yes
<kazade> k
<popey> the full size one :)
<kazade> DJones, I'm working out some logic so it updates as often as possible without going over the rate limit
<DJones> As gord said like gwibber but with an extra 50Mb of free ram :)
<popey> kazade: cross platform :)
<gord> kazade, is the rate limit per application or per account?
<DJones> Multiple twitter accounts
<kazade> gord, hmm, good point
<kazade> I think it's per-IP/per account
<gord> right so don't do that then
<kazade> but, it may be per OAuth key
<mungojerry> kazade: saved searches
<kazade> I'll have to double check
<kazade> DJones, multiple twitter accounts works already ;)
<gord> my phone talks to twitter, my netbook talks to twitter, my laptop and my desktop do all at once, i don't want one application going crazy with it updates
<dwatkins> gord: thanks for reminding me, I still need to get OAUTH to work from a Perl bot I run.
<mungojerry> kazade: i would love to be able to hide people from my twitter timeline for a while without unfollowing them :P
<kazade> mungojerry, excellent idea
<kazade> gord, it's per OAuth
<mungojerry> kazade: are you thinking of working on an existing client or making a new one
<kazade> I've made a new one, in C++/Gtk/Webkit ... it's really lightweight :)
<kazade> I've only been working on it for a couple of days, but I have an updated feed running off two accounts atm
<mungojerry> i'm a hotot user because of speed, but it's missing features that gwibber implements
<DJones> If its got multiple accounts, to be able to specify which accounts get the status update sent to
<Ng> why do people keep using giant html rendering engines for tweets?
<kazade> DJones, yeah, I intend to do that
<Ng> 160 characters in a scrollyview, how can that possibly need a web browser?! :(
<kazade> Ng, because a.) it's easy to style b.) image loading is "free" c.) It handles hyperlinks automatically
<kazade> it's convenience more than anything
<mungojerry> i would like to have separate streams permanently showing that just show my favourite searches e.g. #ubuntu -RT
<mungojerry> which brings me to the following idea
<Baikonur> my twitter app doubles as a browser
<mungojerry> ability to remove any RT'd tweet from my view
<mungojerry> a "hide all RTs" button
<DJones> kazade: User choice for the font/font sizes used to display and the option to not see user pic's to minimise the required screen space
<popey> kazade: regret asking yet?
<kazade> popey, er... a little ;)
<popey> kazade: ability to ignore hashtags
<DJones> As with gwibber and MahTweets on Windows, a combined timeline with multiple accounts in a single window :)
<mungojerry> popey , yeah but then his client would rock
<DJones> I'll stop now, my brain is hurting
<kazade> DJones, done
<kazade> popey, how do you mean "ignore hashtags" ?
<kazade> as in, if they contain the hashtag, don't show the tweet at all?
<mungojerry> kazade: have you thought of joining gwibber project since that is default in ubuntu and seriously needs some performance and feature work
<kazade> mungojerry, I'm going a different direction to them
<DJones> kazade: If you want people to test it, I'm quite happy to run it on 10.10
<kazade> UI wise and technology wise
<popey> kazade: as in, when question time is on, i might not want to see all #bbcqt ones
<kazade> DJones, at the moment it'll only run on Natty because of the webkit requirement, I'm waiting for an answer on StackOverflow to see if there is a workaround
<popey> then i can unignore it later
<kazade> popey, ok
<popey> maybe ignore for an hour
<popey> thats usually sufficient
<popey> that would _rock_ as a feature
<mungojerry> popey, i think that could best be implemented as a filter for your own timeline
<DJones> kazade: No worries, I'm holding off upgrading to natty because my last experience wasn't too sucessful
<popey> i only ever view my own timeline
<kazade> DJones, it's likely I won't have a release for some time, maybe not until Natty ;)
 * kazade looks at the todo list
<kazade> definitely a while
<popey> heh
<DJones> After the last 5 minutes, its probably a todo pad, not just a list
<mungojerry> specially with all these features :)
<dutchie> is there source anywhere yet?
<kazade> dutchie, no, not yet
<popey> kazade: did you see my "cross platform" one? :D
<mungojerry> kazade: what's your favourite twitter client at the moment? are you taking inspiration from anywhere else
<dutchie> i don't know why i'm asking, my C++ is a bit rusty
<kazade> probably gonna LGPL it and have a pro version in the software centre
<kazade> mungojerry, I'm trying to take UI cues from Elementary..
<kazade> so simple
<kazade> no menu
<kazade> well, menubar
<kazade> popey, yes, I saw cross platform ;)
<kazade> it is cross platform at the moment, if I could be bothered to spend a couple of days getting libraries working on Windows
<mungojerry> it's also annoying when the twitter client starts up and tell you about mentions that it already told you about
<popey> http://identi.ca/notice/65642441
<popey> http://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/42257575592472576
<popey> could do with some re-tweeting :D
<bigcalm> popey: venue booked?
<Myrtti> identica, the pox of modern social media
<Myrtti> *cough*
<bigcalm> The platform or the users?
<Myrtti> good question.
<Myrtti> software is nice.
<Myrtti> or the platform
<gord> i had to remove myself from the ubuntu group on identica, it wasn't something that i wanted to be a part of
<mungojerry> my twitter account got followed by an (spammy) identica user , not sure how that works but i couldn't block them
<gord> hehe a bunch of my testing for unity places went into firefox somehow, if anyone ever needs to know where to find a "sdaasdasdddsasdsaasdsssdsssda" on google, i am your man
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> Humf
<bigcalm> My keyboard order hasn't been processed yet
<bigcalm> Is Kentucky a laid back state?
<gord> the only thing i know about kentucky is that they like chicken
<bigcalm> They can't like them that much if they keep killing them
<mungojerry> i've seen some funny rip-offs of KFC in my time e.g. kansas fried chicken, etc but the best one was KentOcky fried chicken
 * DJones awaits the wrath of AlanChicken on mungojerry for chicken abuse
<mungojerry> did i mention that i like eating chickens?
<hamitron> grrrrrrrrr
<hamitron> move everything to a new comp and found it has some hardware fault
<MartijnVdS> \o everyone
<daubers> Gah!
<daubers> I _hate_ compiled languages
<daubers> always take me forever to remember how to use the blasted compilers
<gord> daubers, learn automake ;)
<ali1234> that's only a problem for the likes of java and .net, which have too many compilers with too many options
<MartijnVdS> hmmm Perl :)
<KrimZon> argh!
<MartijnVdS> KrimZon: ?
<KrimZon> ok, I downloaded an ubuntu 10.04 iso, used startup disk creator to put it on a usb stick, then tried installing wubi on another machine
<KrimZon> then wubi started downloading the iso I already downloaded to make the ubuntu stick in the first place
<MartijnVdS> I don't know.. never used Wubi
<KrimZon> I love it, it was how I started using ubuntu as my 'main' operating system
<MartijnVdS> what's wrong with partition resizing?
<KrimZon> at the time it was daunting, and for this particular instance I just need it to rip dvds on the games machine
<Myrtti> wubi :-<
<KrimZon> cause the games machine is faster and transcodes at a higher framerate than the video
<KrimZon> then I can upload them to my home server running ubuntu, and play them from my eee pc or laptop which both run ubuntu
<Jibadeeha> KrimZon, what bitrate are you ripping them at
<KrimZon> 640 ish
<KrimZon> !!! even burning the iso to disc it still then downloads the iso
<lubotu3> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<Jibadeeha> KrimZon, i've been ripping my dvd collection recently at 2000 and 3000 for stand-up comedy where lots of black background .. being doing this on a netbook and seems to take about 2 hours per DVD
<KrimZon> well, I got 20fps transcoding on the laptop and 70-80 on the desktop machine
<Jibadeeha> KrimZon, do you do 2-pass encoding?
<Myrtti> kekek. http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3001
<KrimZon> dvd::rip does, with the options I give it
<Jibadeeha> i like dvd::rip but the only thing that stopped me using it was there is no queuing mechanism
<MartijnVdS> handbrake \o/
<Jibadeeha> yeah handbrake is what i am using now and can leave my DVDs queued up over night
<Jibadeeha> works a treat
 * MartijnVdS is old-fashioned and plays DVDs from the disc
<Cepheus> me too. I don't rewatch films enough to warrant ripping them
<Jibadeeha> MartijnVdS, i need the space so ripped them and put them in the loft
 * MartijnVdS just bought some new Billy bookcases to put them in :)
<Jibadeeha> missus doesn't like them on display lol
<MartijnVdS> ah there's the problem: you got the missus BEFORE your DVDs :)
<Jibadeeha> pmsl
<MartijnVdS> :P
<Jibadeeha> i was waiting for the "find a new missus then", but it works out cheaper to rip the DVDs lol
<HazRPG> hey all :)
<MartijnVdS> \o HazRPG
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: \o :)
<HazRPG> I've been messing around with PCSX recently :)
<HazRPG> its come along way since I last used it
<MartijnVdS> pcsx?
<HazRPG> yeah it's a playstation emulator
<MartijnVdS> ah
<HazRPG> I tell ya what, a game I own (called: Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure) never played right on my PSone - I think I've found out why!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] Frustration, thy name is trying to work on two projects - http://philbull.livejournal.com/58459.html
<HazRPG> I think as they shrunk they playstation over time, they also removed some features
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: did they?
<HazRPG> because whenever the main character would sing (or would play her instrument to add them to roster of playables), never actually made those sounds. I assumed back then that it was the game built that way
<MartijnVdS> it was
<HazRPG> but using an old BIOS in  pcsx, its actually playing them
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<HazRPG> I never realised she actually sung the words!
<MartijnVdS> US vs European vs Japanese firmware ?
<HazRPG> I'm using a European firmware, since I have European games on disc
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: which game, specifically?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: "Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure"
<HazRPG> on my actual console, it never actually played the singing music
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you could try in a PS3.. if she sings there it's a pcsx bug :)
<HazRPG> only SFX and background music
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: No I mean pcsx plays them! My console never actually did! :o
<KrimZon> hmm... that's a point, I only tried handbrake in windows and it couldn't decode the disc
<KrimZon> my brother said it worked on his mac though
<MartijnVdS> KrimZon: region lock?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: try asking around on some playstation forums?
<HazRPG> I had two consoles, an NTSC PSone, and a PAL PSX... Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure is an NTSC game - she never sang, I always read the lyrics off the screen... but using pcsx she actually sings :D! It's like playing a whole new game! :P
<KrimZon> I don't know what it was, probably css
<MartijnVdS> KrimZon: that's another name for dvd  region locking
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: No point really, more convenient for me to play it on my PC (sister always hogs the TV - main reason for downloading the Emu. in the first place)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: time to move out :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Why should I :P? My parents don't live here, nor do they visit - or have plans on ever coming back, but the house is paid for. Cheaper to stay at home, plus it means I can look out for my sister :)
<gord> yup moving out, waaaay cheeper than buying a new tv ;)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: hm, sounds like a nice arrangement :)
<HazRPG> gord: Cheaper to stay with my sis :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: It is, plus my parents are split up - so I have 2 houses to pick from. However too much hassle to sort my dad's place out, it got struck with the floods a few years ago and is completely empty almost.
<gord> HazRPG, irony, its conveyed on internet via the use of elongation of words
<MartijnVdS> gord: eeeeloooonnnggggaaaaattiiooooon?
<HazRPG> gord: how do ya mean?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: imagine gord rolling his eyes while saying "waaaaay cheaper"
<gord> HazRPG, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggXmKPMaHMo
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Plus the house is in a bad part of town...
<HazRPG> (dad's I mean)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: internet -> no need to go outside ;)
<HazRPG> gord: ah... with ya now
<HazRPG> I use 8-) for rolling eyes
<HazRPG> or Â¬.Â¬
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<HazRPG> that works too
<HazRPG> but I can't type that on my keyboard :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I've taught my irssi that "/lod" means that :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (look of disapproval)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: nice one :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: /alias lod say à² _à² 
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: /save
<Myrtti> :')  http://bit.ly/i9PCIm
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: not using irssi
<kewxedge> *waves*
<kewxedge> <-- new to Ubuntu
<HazRPG> kewxedge: welcome to the community \o/
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: "Sorry, you're not authorized to see this status"
<Myrtti> oh. strange
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I just thought - Playstation 3 has baaaaaad PSX/PS2 emulation
<Myrtti> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=78514#c19 then
<kewxedge> thanks HazRPG :) Im loving it so far... only issue im having is with exchange mail - but tbh thats what OWA can be for :)
<HazRPG> which is ironic, since you'd think that sony _knows_ how their own system works :/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: they dropped ps2 emu after the first generation hardware
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I still own a ps3 60GB fat :D
<HazRPG> \o/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: my 40G fat died, so I now have a 250G slim
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: what happened to it?
<kewxedge> oh yeh, i forgot - streaming to Airport Express seems a bit of a pita too... not figured that out! I had one fix for it, but it crashed the airport express lol
<HazRPG> kewxedge: hehe :P
<HazRPG> kewxedge: Ubuntu & its community is awesome :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: HDMI stopped working
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: still works on my brother's TV though, so now he has it
<kewxedge> yeh im good mates with Nafallo so if he's anything to go by it should all be good :)
<kewxedge> once ive figured out the airport express crapness it'll be good to go
<HazRPG> kewxedge: I was having troubles with Flash not playing fullscreen stuff properly because of TwinView in the nVidia drivers, and ali1234 made a fix to help within hours of saying I had problems :D
<kewxedge> hah nice :D
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Flash doesn't play fullscreen _anyway_
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: twinview or not..
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: random...
<MartijnVdS> it just shows one frozen frame
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Really? I've never had problems with a single monitor
<kewxedge> flash in chrome is a bit of an idiot sometimes too - it will sometimes play and sometimes not....
<kewxedge> yay for firefox :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I have intel chips everywhere
<kewxedge> I had to open firefox just to watch GaGa's latest video ROFL . I didnt admit to that :E
<HazRPG> kewxedge: Hmm, I use chrome and I haven't had that issue either - weird.
<kewxedge> Its mostly youtube that breaks in chrome for me
<kewxedge> does it on my windows machine here and at home too
<kewxedge> * work
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ah, full screen video works in natty
<HazRPG> kewxedge: I'm an eclectic when it comes to music, so I wouldn't worry ;). However rock is my music of choice, I still have and listen to other stuff though.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's VERY choppy, but it works
<ali1234> can't use twinview on natty... so yeah
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: intel intel intel :)
<kewxedge> Right :) nice to meet y'all but I need to go and fix SickBeard and SabNZB then make myself some food! Not eaten since lunch :(
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: using 10.10 here
<HazRPG> kewxedge: might just be hardware incompatibility then
<HazRPG> kewxedge: adobe can be _very_ slow at updating stuff
<HazRPG> kewxedge: hehe sure no problem, hope to see ya around :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: still haven't tried natty on my setup yet
<HazRPG> I fear using it on my development system, however seems to run okay for most stuff on my netbook/laptop
<HazRPG> just not a huge fan of unity
<safiyyah> anyone got time to help me with nvidia?
<safiyyah> hi daftykins
<HazRPG> safiyyah: what's up?
<safiyyah> just need to install it and get it working
<safiyyah> i am running meerkat
<HazRPG> safiyyah: have you installed them before?
<safiyyah> i see no xorg.conf file
<HazRPG> safiyyah: guessing that would be a no then :P
<MartijnVdS> Only install them if you're 100% sure you need them :)
<HazRPG> agreed
<safiyyah> HazRPG,  yes on lucid and hardy and i needed xorg.conf
<safiyyah> well i have never not had them lol
<HazRPG> same tbh
<MartijnVdS> Sure you have.. the system started in a graphics mode, didn't it :)
<safiyyah> but i rarely upgrade.... hate the fidling
<MartijnVdS> and nouveau is getting better all the time
<safiyyah> i have an nvidia card
<ali1234> with no xorg.conf you get nouveau
<HazRPG> right, easiest way would be to go to System -> Admin -> Additional Drivers
<safiyyah> erm..... stay here because normal the resolution goes mad
<HazRPG> then pick whichever you want to install
<HazRPG> I usually go with the "... (version current) [Recommended]" one
<safiyyah> i have selected that one and am no bracing myself
<safiyyah> for the bezerk resolution
<HazRPG> however if you don't mind a bit of terminal, you could type in "sudo apt-cache search nvidia" and look for the one you'd like to install, and apt-get that
<safiyyah> i did it the first way
<HazRPG> safiyyah: noticed after I'd sent it :P
<HazRPG> safiyyah: you will have to restart for it to take effect, or at least restart X
<safiyyah> like i said.... it's time to pray
<safiyyah> lol
 * HazRPG loves the CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE function once its re-enabled :)
<HazRPG> safiyyah: hehe :P - it should work fine :)
<safiyyah> it never works out of the box for me
<safiyyah> i will be back with a crazyyyyy resolution
<safiyyah> brb
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Must agree, nouveau is getting better :)
<Nafallo> kewxedge: â¥
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: re: ps3 -- oops: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/02/ps3-shipments-halted-in-europe-as-sony-and-lg-fight-over-blu-ray-patent.ars
<zleap> i am trying (or struggling) to play back an ogv file of sintel (open movie) i get sound but no picture
<zleap> i am not sure what i have done wrong or not got loaded
<MartijnVdS> zleap: which player?
<MartijnVdS> zleap: also, which video codec? :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Wow! I was seriously wondering when that would happen :P
<zleap> vlc
<zleap> and ogv codec
<HazRPG> zleap: have you tried in MPlayer?
<zleap> is that the same as movie player on the menus
<HazRPG> zleap: yeah it is :)
<HazRPG> there is an application called "GNOME MPlayer" too though, which is light-weight (in terms of UI) similar to VLC
<zleap> ok that seems to work after a while
<zleap> i think it takes time to open
<HazRPG> zleap: it worked in Movie Player?
<MartijnVdS> zleap: ogv can be theor or wbm
<MartijnVdS> webm
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> ok
<zleap> so there are 2 different versions of ogv
<HazRPG> I've noticed the VLC in the repo for 10.10 and 10.04 seems to be a bit buggy for some video formats
<zleap> ah
<zleap> that explains a lot of issues i have been having with things then
<MartijnVdS> zleap: no, ogg is a container, it could contain anything really :)
<zleap> how do i use ls to include how much space a set of files are talking up
<zleap> lh
<zleap> where h is human readable
<Safiyyah> okay!!!!!!
<zleap> Safiyyah, hows you
<Safiyyah> i am now in a live disk, when I rebooted my monitor says there is no signal from the PC. The computer did boot up though, I even heard the log in noise
<Safiyyah> zleap... still in my computer misery moment
<Safiyyah> HazRPG,
<HazRPG> Safiyyah: Hmm... which graphics card do you have?
 * zleap is watching sintel
<HazRPG> zleap: I like that short :)
<Safiyyah> okay i mounted me root drive and xorg.conf has now been created
 * HazRPG really wishes it would be turned into a game
<zleap> well just got it working,  read up vlc is buggy
<Safiyyah> how do I use the terminal and sudo into my hard drive?
<Safiyyah> i am on live disk
<zleap> you should be able to mount it,
<HazRPG> zleap: I only use vlc for audio for that reason - although recently started using "gnome mplayer" as a replacement for vlc
<Safiyyah> HazRPG,   VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation G86 [GeForce 8400 GS]
<Safiyyah> HazRPG,  gnome mplayer is better than VLC
<Safiyyah> on ubuntu
<Safiyyah> back to my problem
<Safiyyah> i need root priviledges from the live disk please
<Safiyyah> anyone?
<zleap> wel if vlc is still buggy is 11.04  it needs to be replaced with something more reliable
<Safiyyah> daftykins,  please ?
<HazRPG> zleap: vlc doesn't get installed as standard does it?
<MartijnVdS> totem = default
<MartijnVdS> and it's not all bad
<zleap> ah
<HazRPG> Safiyyah: can you not just type: sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<zleap> thats interesting the 1280 version seems to work where as the higher definition one doesm't  (2048)
<zleap> this is in mplayer
<HazRPG> zleap: like I said, gnome mplayer might be a better alternative for you if you prefer the style of vlc :)
<zleap> this is mplayer
<zleap> i think the larger format seems to be causing other issues the 1280 one plays fine
<HazRPG> never tried the 2048 version
<gord> 2048 might be bigger than your gpu can handle tbh
<Safiyyah> HazRPG, i am on live disk remember?
<zleap> well its an old geforce4
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i will copy the files to mp3
<zleap> i mean dvd
<gord> yeah an old geforce 4 won't be able to handle things of that resolution really
<gord> too big
<MartijnVdS> but it has more pixels
<MartijnVdS> so it must be infinitely better!
<gord> the 2048 version is very pretty :)
<MartijnVdS> it's also annoying
<MartijnVdS> as most hd equipment is made for 1080, not TWICE that :)
<HazRPG> Safiyyah: you should be able to boot up in rescue mode on the liveCD
<gord> right, but monitors often have > 1080p
<gord> the 1080p version is what you want for your "HD" equipment
<MartijnVdS> gord: In which world do you live, and can I live there too?
<MartijnVdS> Affordable monitors are 1920x1080 max
<HazRPG> Safiyyah: you'll need to know what what mount point you'll need to be using though
<Safiyyah> HazRPG, brb i changed the file
<gord> MartijnVdS, if you bought a monitor that is 1080, you really just bought a tv
<Safiyyah> erm what do i need to press in order to boot from recovery mode?
<HazRPG> Safiyyah: ah, guessing you managed to do it without going into recovery mode
<MartijnVdS> gord: sue, 1920x1200 then.. still isn't 2048ish
<gord> MartijnVdS, no 2048 is more for projectors and cinema screenings, that sort of thing
<MartijnVdS> ah, Expensive HardwareÂ®
<HazRPG> Safiyyah: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-boot-ubuntu-linux-rescue-mode/
<gord> MartijnVdS, but downscaled 2048 is nicer than upscaled 1080
<Azelphur> 500W PSU should be fine for a Q6600 (2.4ghz quad), 8800GT, 1 SATA HDD, DVD-RW and a couple case fans right?
<Safiyyah> okay brb
<gord> sounds okay, there are online calculators for psu wattage you need though
<gord> can't remember where
<Azelphur> yea, I ran it through one of those and it recommends 450 or so
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I just thought, doesn't grub automatically add a recovery mode anyways without the LiveCD?
<MartijnVdS> it does
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Hmm, just having one of those days I guess :/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I'll let him know when he gets back :)
<HazRPG> gord, MartijnVdS: That's one thing I've never understood of the TV world... they keep talking about "Oh wow, HD! It does 1080p!", but my monitors in the past have been able to achieve more than that for years!
<ali1234> HazRPG: but not your graphics card
<popey> mmmm 4K :)
<dutchie> HazRPG: http://xkcd.com/732/
<MartijnVdS> popey: do you have 4k-capable equipment yet? :)
<popey> nope :(
<ali1234> xkcd gets dumber all the time
<ali1234> i would like to see a PC from 2004 play 1080p video without dropping frames
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: there are 500 funny things in the world. He made >500 comics.
<ali1234> hint: at the time it wasn't possible without very specialist hardware
<popey> hah
 * popey clicks "report problem" as compiz crashes (again)
<HazRPG> dutchie: heh, I don't recall seeing that one for some reason :S
 * popey sends his 20MB report
<MartijnVdS> popey: do your bugs get marked as duplicates of other (secret!) bugs as well?
<popey> hehe, not yet
<MartijnVdS> mine get marked like that all the time
 * popey opens spotify
<MartijnVdS> (the automatic apport ones)
<HazRPG> ali1234: My 8800GTS that I've had for years has been able to render stuff high higher than 1080p
<kewxedge> Nafallo <3
<popey> HazRPG: only in the last year or two
<popey> VDPAU is fairly recent
<popey> bug 724874
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 724874 in compiz (Ubuntu) "unity-window-decorator crashed with SIGSEGV in g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__OBJECT()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/724874
<ali1234> in 2004 GF6800 was considered high end and probably cost about Â£300
 * popey tickles cbx333 
<cbx333> oooooh
<cbx333> hey there popey
<cbx333> howz it going
<ali1234> (6800 doesn't support vdpau)
<cbx33> popey, up to much?
<gord> popey, i think that got fixed today
<popey> cbx33: nope :D
<popey> cbx33: and yes!
<popey> podcast starts tomorrow
<popey> we're introducing a quiz :D
<cbx33> hahah
<cbx33> awesome
<popey> so listen in and see if you can get the answers right before us :)
 * cbx33 is just working on the git book
<HazRPG> popey: I'm sure I've been using more than 1080p for more than just a couple of years though
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: your ps3 can do it :)
 * HazRPG recalls my 7600GT and 6800GT
<MartijnVdS> â¥ Wipeout HD in 1080p goodness
 * cbx33 had a 7300 GT OC
<cbx33> :)
<HazRPG> cbx33: nice :)
<gord> <3 wipeout hd in 720p goodness in threeee deeeee
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: obviously :P
<cbx33> hehe
<MartijnVdS> gord: I can't stand the 3d hype
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Agreed :/
<ali1234> yes, PC games have been able to run in 1080p for years, but that's a totally different situation...
<HazRPG> ali1234: so have digital cameras ;)
<ali1234> again, not for video, only stills
<popey> gord: when does your 3ds come?
<gord> popey, erm late march i think? the release date is march 20something
<HazRPG> ali1234: only because film producers wouldn't :P
<HazRPG> popey: ooo quiz :D
<gord> one of the really cool things about the 3ds is that it can take and view 3d photo's, looking forward to that hugely
<dogmatic69> cant iphone do that?
<dogmatic69> read something about 3d pics on it
<gord> wuh? no.. noooooo
<gord> the iphone does not have a 3d camera and the iphone certainly does not have a 3d display
<dutchie> you can play minecraft in 3d ;)
<ali1234> anaglyph doesn't work too well with the pixel textures and bright primary colours
<HazRPG> gord: tell you what, main thing I'm looking forward to on the 3ds is the augmented reality :)
<gord> i bugged notch on twitter about adding proper 3d to mindcraft, he agreed and went out and bought a 3d monitor. but nothing has come from it :(
<AlanBell> you can do augmented reality on Ubuntu
<Azelphur> ali1234: my minecraft server is nearly ready, I've got cool things like live map, irc relay, and a water slide :D
<Azelphur> can't get better than a water slide.
<HazRPG> gord: give him time :P
<HazRPG> AlanBell: really?
<gord> bah time, this was before you guys were even playing minecraft! :P
<ali1234> AlanBell: really? ubuntu has an API for GPS/compass that actually works?
<gord> geoclue
<gord> for location anyway
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: checking your nick sorting algorithms? :)
<Azelphur> nope, just my internet going down
<MartijnVdS> or did you grow a beard ;)
<kewxedge> So has anyone here for an Airport Express and actually got it working without the need to run iTunes in wime?
<AlanBell> ali1234: no, but hang on I will show you . . .
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/artoolkit.ogv
<AlanBell> me mucking about with artoolkit
<kewxedge> * wine
<HazRPG> AlanBell: awesome!
<HazRPG> Safiyyah: how'd it go?
<popey> http://www.britishrailways.tv/british-railways?task=viewvideo&video_id=1708  Choo choo!
<Safiyyah> so i installed the nvidia drivers off the restricted drivers facility. The system boots but no signal on the monitor
<popey> Safiyyah: is it a clean install?
<Safiyyah> its a day old
<Safiyyah> completely clean
<Safiyyah> even reformatted
<Safiyyah> its was fine until i added nvidia
<popey> ok
<popey> are you at the machine now?
<Safiyyah> i don't understand why i cant get into recovery mode and reconfigure x server from there
<Safiyyah> but then i did specifically tell grub to boot from /root because it kept giving me initramfs black screen
<Safiyyah> yes am at the machine
<Safiyyah> i am on a live disk
<Safiyyah> i cant find anything helpful on google either
<popey> hang on
<ali1234> so, let me get this straight... every time you install nvidia, you get black screen?
<popey> can you get online and talk here whilst booted to recovery mode?
<Safiyyah> apparently, i am supposed to press shift to get into grub menu.... nothing is happen
<Safiyyah> nope, no other machine at home
<popey> you have to be quick pressing shift
<Safiyyah> trust me i was
<ali1234> hold shift while turning on power, until you see grub menu
<Safiyyah> i did
<Safiyyah> but no grub menu
<ali1234> are you sure you are installing ubuntu?
<Safiyyah> i got the word GRUB
<Safiyyah> and then it went straight in maverick
<popey> the word grub? what version of ubuntu is this?
<ali1234> did you hold left shift? right shift doesn't work
<ali1234> popey: sounds like GRUB> prompt
<Safiyyah> am on meerkat
<Safiyyah> i need to say that i had done this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
<Safiyyah> that might be the kulprit
<Safiyyah> sudo grub-install --root-directory=/media/0d104aff-ec8c-44c8-b811-92b993823444 /dev/sda
<popey> did you install windows?
<Safiyyah> i set it onto my root partition because previously i was getting initramfs black screen
<Safiyyah> nope only have ubuntu meerkat
<Safiyyah> nothing else
<Safiyyah> so it straight boots from root now
<Safiyyah> so it stubbornly goes there, which is fine, but now i have x server issues
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Seems LG won: http://www.primaryignition.com/2011/02/28/sony-loses-to-lg-in-europe-consoles-to-be-confiscated-possibly-destroyed/
<Safiyyah> ali i tried both right and left
<Safiyyah> ali1234:
<Safiyyah> is there a way to reconfigure x from the live disk? i assume that is the problem i have
<popey> yes, there is
<Safiyyah> well popey you are the master!
<popey> ok
<popey> one mo
<Safiyyah> k
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/FixingBorkedXFromLiveCD
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> "4. Fix it"
<popey> :)
<Azelphur> popey: btw you may be interested in dynmap for your minecraft server, it's like overviewer but live, http://game.azelphur.com/minecraft-map
<popey> i see a black box
<popey> is it night? :D
<Azelphur> haha, do you have frames disabled?
<popey> refresh fixed
<Azelphur> :D
<popey> not sure about that map, neat that its live
<HazRPG> is having more than 3 partitions really that bad?
<HazRPG> I always thought having swap, root and home on separate partitions was the best way to go
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> makes no difference really
<ali1234> just add extra hassle to the install process
<popey> no need for separate /home really
<ali1234> what the install gives you is fine, which is / and swap
<Azelphur> popey: hehe, I'm still developing the server atm so I'm gonna reset the map
<HazRPG> popey: I do it for convenience, that way if I want to upgrade at least some settings for applications stick around
<Azelphur> but thought you might be interested in dynmap :)
<popey> no need
<popey> upgrade takes are of that
<popey> as does install
<ali1234> or just back up ~
<popey> or that
<ali1234> i like to delete most settings on upgrade anyway
<popey> you do backup, don't you? :)
<HazRPG> indeed
<ali1234> otherwise ~ gets full of settings from applications i tried once and didn't like
<ali1234> anyway the problem at hand
<HazRPG> I have an external and a dropbox for that
<HazRPG> hmm, always thought having a separate /home was the best way to go
<Azelphur> popey: in game screenshot of the dynmap chat should you want it, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/February%202011/2011-02-28-222951_1908x1167_scrot.png
<Azelphur> along with epic waterslide :D
<ali1234> are you going to enable nether?
<Azelphur> what is nether?
<ali1234> um... never mind then :)
<Azelphur> haha, do fill me in
<Azelphur> remember I've only actually had the game for 2 days, so I'm on a steep learning curve
<ali1234> nether is minecraft's politically correct version of hell
<popey> heheh
<ali1234> it doesn't work in SMP though
<ali1234> not without hacks
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> i guess you could build a house in nether very quickly around the portal?
<gord> the big white floaty things would destroy the house pretty quickly
<dutchie> isn't cobblestone ghast-proof?
<dutchie> (not tried it, just heard from others)
<HazRPG> hmm, I would seriously love to know how you guys diagnose stuff - then maybe I could be more useful to others :)
<gord> we went through the problems once
<gord> all technical support is built on the foundations of blood sweat and tears ;)
<HazRPG> trust me I know :P
<HazRPG> I can diagnose most windows problems
<HazRPG> just not keyed up on linux
<gord> i used to be able to do windows problems, then they changed it all and now i am useless
<gord> i couldn't even figure out how to uninstall applications, so i just left everything installed...
<HazRPG> all usual windows problems, are still there - they just moved everything lol
<HazRPG> popey, ali1234: Just my 2 cents worth, but it could just be a problem with the nvidia 260 driver?
<HazRPG> popey, ali1234: Might be worth trying a slightly older version?
 * popey shrugs
<HazRPG> also, digging up info I've come across this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1592802.html
<HazRPG> its not the _same_ problem, but seems people have issues with the 8400 series
<mgdm> Oooooh
<mgdm> My multiple monitor problems are fixed by not using Compiz
<HazRPG> mgdm: what multi-screen problem were you having squire?
<mgdm> HazRPG: attempting to use an external monitor that hadn't been plugged in on boot froze X
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> that's a random bug
 * HazRPG feels he has much to learn about the linux world :(
<mgdm> I've been using it 10+ years, and I still do, so don't worry about it
<Safiyyah> HazRPG:  i sussed windoes
<Safiyyah> got angry about catching a virus
<Safiyyah> moved to ubuntu and am afraid i have been lost since
<Safiyyah> i can only do simple stuff
<HazRPG> I'm slowly learning things in ubuntu :)
<HazRPG> however some of the stuff popey, ali1234 and AlanBell know makes me feel small lol
<popey> I am no expter
<popey> *expert
<HazRPG> popey: know more then me though :P
<popey> I am just 38 years old, so have seen stuff before :)
<ali1234> Safiyyah: did i log into your computer and fix this before? it seems strangely familiar to me
<Safiyyah> no u've never logged into my system
<mgdm> Yeah, popey filed many bugs on ENIAC
 * mgdm runs
<ali1234> must have been someone else then
<HazRPG> hmm, I wouldn't have factored age into that, it really just depends on the environments you've been/worked in
<HazRPG> experience != time
<Safiyyah> popey i thought u were around 50
<ali1234> hahaha
<ali1234> 10000 hours, that's what they say right?
<HazRPG> I thought he was in his late 20's!
<HazRPG> how wrong am I!
<Safiyyah> he's always so serious i thought 50
<ali1234> i probably have about 50000 hours linux experience
<Safiyyah> ali such a shame,.... if you were a pilot you can fly the U2 with that mileage
<popey> HazRPG: young people always tell me that experience != time
<popey> :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: isn't 10000 only just over a year?
<ali1234> if you sit infront of a computer for 24 hours a day, yeah
<popey> sounds about right ;)
<Safiyyah> have we given up on my problem?
<popey> sorry, I'm not sure what to do next
<ali1234> fixing it will involve tinkering with the modeline
<HazRPG> ali1234: only time I leave my computer is for food/toilet/special occasions ;)
<Safiyyah> HazRPG:  Recipe for being happily single
<Safiyyah> ali what modeline?
<ali1234> in the xorg.conf
<ali1234> what you should do (what i would do):
<ali1234> delete the xorg.conf and reboot back into nouveau
<ali1234> press ctrl-alt-f1 to get framebuffer console
<hamitron> HazRPG: you slept with your comp?
<ali1234> stop xorg service
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> install nvidia driver
<HazRPG> heh, I wasn't being serious lol
<ali1234> start X from console
<ali1234> if it doesn't work, kill it, edit xorg.conf, try again
<Safiyyah> ali i like this solution but i am slow
<Safiyyah> just a minute
<HazRPG> ali1234, popey: hmm, I suggested installing an older version of the nvidia drivers... but well, i could be wrong
<ali1234> thing is you won't be able to get on irc easily from fbcon
<ali1234> especially if you use wireless
<ali1234> older version of drivers could help too
<ali1234> another thing to try
<HazRPG> ali1234: reason I posted that was the 8400 series is known to have issues with nvidia drivers
<ali1234> what kind of issues?
<HazRPG> I've seen similar hickups on some windows drivers
<HazRPG> ali1234: blank screens
<HazRPG> also posted an ubuntuforum link earlier
<ali1234> ok, try different driver then
<ali1234> i dunno how you do that, never had to do it
<HazRPG> ali1234: you mean from a liveCD?
<Safiyyah> is nvidia the only gaming card on the market?
<Safiyyah> isnt there one that just plus and plays on ubuntu?
<HazRPG> Safiyyah: There's ATI too
<ali1234> there is no such thing as gaming on linux
<hamitron> depends what games ;)
<ali1234> if you want good linux support you need intel graphics
<ali1234> but they don't make cards
<ali1234> and you can't play games with em
<hamitron> intel graphics are good?
<ali1234> the drivers are good, yes
<Safiyyah> eh? so you cant game on linux.... you have to use windows?
<ali1234> gaming on linux is harder than getting your video card to work
<Safiyyah> rofl
<Safiyyah> no wonder people are not migrating so fast
<hamitron> the problem is the variety of configurations
<HazRPG> hmm, Wine isn't as bad as it use to be though.
 * JamesTait goes back to World of Goo.
<Safiyyah> so u have to game on windows?
<hamitron> it depends what you want in terms of gaming
<JamesTait> Safiyyah: It's a chicken-and-egg situation.
<HazRPG> Safiyyah: I run StarCraft 2 just fine in linux, along with most steam games
<dogmatic69> minecraft works fine on linux
<ali1234> either that or spend 10000 hours learning how to set it up
<dogmatic69> what more do you want?
<mgdm> Hmm
<ali1234> yeah a few games work really well
<dogmatic69> there is not enough time for any other games
<ali1234> if you like those games then great
<mgdm> if two users are logged in at the same time, one of them gets the audio and the other can't do anything
<hamitron> UT 2k4 \o/
<ali1234> if you like some other game... bad luck
<Safiyyah> lol no world of war craft?
<ali1234> WoW works OK i think
<Safiyyah> i thought that was the ultimate game
<ali1234> (relatively)
<HazRPG> hamitron: haha, that even had a little penguin in the corner of the box ;)
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> :)
<JamesTait> Safiyyah: Many games producers don't create Linux versions of their games because they don't see a market for it. But there's only a small market, because there are only a few games.
<HazRPG> hamitron: I own a copy and was showing my non-believer friend about it the other week :P
<hamitron> does the linux installer still work?
<Safiyyah> right can you talk me through purging nvidia drivers on my HDD, remember i am on live disk
<Safiyyah> then i can boot back in
<HazRPG> Safiyyah: I've ran World of Warcraft fine for many years in ubuntu without much configuration
<ali1234> Safiyyah: sudo rm ~/target/etc/X11/xorg.conf
<hamitron> the important thing to remember, you can't run many games natively on linux
<ali1234> then reboot
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> hamitron: I recall the website having an updated version of it?
<Safiyyah> oky i will return for the other gibberish u said about running it from a terminal
<Safiyyah> i didnt get it
 * hamitron shrugs (I just have a seperate comp for games ;)
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> i dont think i will be buying anything except the wii fit
<hamitron> I have a seperate comp for almost every task
<Safiyyah> kids get addicted
<hamitron> ;D
<hamitron> wii :(
<Safiyyah> yep
<Safiyyah> the wii
<HazRPG> hamitron: heh, I tend to do that
<hamitron> I'd rather use linux dedicated for gaming personally
 * HazRPG listens to the whirling noise of 3 machines
<Safiyyah> lol
<hamitron> only 3? pussy ;)
<Safiyyah> men and their 'junk'
<HazRPG> 3 that are turned on ;)
<HazRPG> Safiyyah: :o
<hamitron> hey
<Safiyyah> brb ali1234  if i take long it means i still got no signal and need live disk again
<hamitron> I am green and recycle "junk" ;/
<Safiyyah> more than 2 comps is hoarding in my eye
<Safiyyah> lol
 * hamitron has 23
<Safiyyah> never getting rid of the old machinese etc
<Safiyyah> 23.... u need a house just for them
<Safiyyah> brb
<hamitron> all 586 and above \o/
<HazRPG> Safiyyah: Personally I don't get rid, I accept all the things people are planning on throwing away
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> great am friends with a bunch of hoarders
<Safiyyah> brb
<hamitron> I threw a Duron out last week
<HazRPG> :o
<hamitron> so don't hoard everything at least
<HazRPG> see I always fix other peoples machines, with parts I've collected over time
<hamitron> sorry HazRPG, did you want it?
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> whether the parts were my own or given
<hamitron> I am actually getting sick of this many machines tbh
<HazRPG> hamitron: really?
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> I have 8 turned on atm
<HazRPG> :o!
<popey> zoiks
<hamitron> only 5 in this room though
<popey> I only have 3 on atm, which I think is good :)
<HazRPG> and people say they'd hate to see my electric bill!
<hamitron> ah well
<popey> no, 4
<HazRPG> popey: heh same
<safiyyah> no i would simply hate to see your house
<safiyyah> must be cluttered
<popey> nope :)
<safiyyah> okay ali am back in
<safiyyah> lets go through the terminal gibberish about running x
<HazRPG> safiyyah: :( can't judge people when ya haven't met/know them
<popey> HazRPG: yeah, ya can :D
<popey> its more fun that way
<ali1234> safiyyah: well
<HazRPG> popey: heh
<ali1234> first of all, you press ctrl-alt-f7 to get back to this screen
<ali1234> remember that
<ali1234> most important
<HazRPG> ali1234: my fav keyboard shortcut :)
<safiyyah> okay written it down
<ali1234> second, you press ctrl-alt-f1 to get to console
<ali1234> when xorg fails, do that
<hamitron> I like REISUO
<hamitron> and REISUB
<HazRPG> hamitron: ?
<hamitron> but guess that just shows how broken my stuff is
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key
<ali1234> safiyyah: so what you need to do is log out of desktop, press ctrl-alt-f1, log in, become root
<HazRPG> hamitron: I always wondered why it was called SysRq
<ali1234> then copy in popey's xorg.conf and run "X"
<ali1234> if you get a black screen press ctrl-alt-f1 the ctrl-c
<ali1234> edit the xorg.conf with different modeline
<ali1234> repeat until it work
<ali1234> alternatively, try the older nvidia driver
<ali1234> i think you do that through additional drivers
<HazRPG> ali1234: additional drivers only shows current (260.xx), 173 and 96.
<hamitron> 260?
<HazRPG> hamitron: nvidia drivers
<hamitron> oh, 10.10?
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> ali1234: however other versions do exist in the repo
<hamitron> I like 96 series
<hamitron> before everything got more messed than it was before
<hamitron> :/
<safiyyah> okay so i have no idea how to change the modeline
<safiyyah> i dont even understand it
<safiyyah> so perhaps the best method is getting the 96 series?
<ali1234> try it first, it would rule out the possibility at least
<ali1234> either that or it works
<safiyyah> i will try but i cant change the modeline
<HazRPG> I think 173 should work fine
<safiyyah> dont know how to
<safiyyah> is that the one that isn't recommended?
<safiyyah> okay let me do what ali said first
<HazRPG> well yeah of course
<safiyyah> btw ali when you say become root
<HazRPG> carry on :)
<safiyyah> u mean type sudo su?
<safiyyah> or su root?
<ali1234> try the old driver first
<safiyyah> oh okay
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-01
<safiyyah> 96 or 173?
<HazRPG> I'd recommend the 173 over the 96, but that's me
<hamitron> I think it also depends what card you got
<hamitron> all mine are old ;)
<safiyyah> is have geforce 8400
<safiyyah> i * have
<HazRPG> hamitron: yeah its because she's on a 8400
<HazRPG> yeah :)
<ali1234> if you get a black screen, try ctrl-alt-f7 instead of livecd
<safiyyah> ok
<safiyyah> thank you
<hamitron> better to move back 1 at a time I'd guess
<safiyyah> i am very grateful really really truely
<HazRPG> hamitron: if I recall the 8400 worked best on the 173
<HazRPG> not sure what it would be like under 96
<safiyyah> wait
<safiyyah> put the brakes on!
<HazRPG> ?
<safiyyah> the recommended one is still installed and is currently active
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> that's a lie
<ali1234> you deleted xorg.conf
<HazRPG> safiyyah: yeah, but xorg isn't configured to use it :)
<ali1234> installer is just confused
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Further adventures in mobile Linux - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/134457.html
<HazRPG> what he said :P
<safiyyah> okay okay.... full speed ahead again
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, should safiyyah remove the current one first and then activate 173?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> it used to remove the old ones automatically
<safiyyah> am installing the new one
<safiyyah> 173
<safiyyah> the new old one rather
<safiyyah> okay brb restarting
<HazRPG> make sure you have the remove xorg written down
<HazRPG> any joy?
<safiyyah> yes
<safiyyah> am back
<safiyyah> right now i take it it's time to use popey's disk because the resolution is off by a million
<safiyyah> popey's xorg.conf i mean
<ali1234> probably
<safiyyah> okay
<ali1234> is it actually using the nvidia driver?
<safiyyah> yep
<ali1234> check /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<safiyyah> okay
 * HazRPG apologies to safiyyah
<ali1234> seems like you solved the problem to me
<safiyyah> [    10.939] (II) Loading extension DRI2
<safiyyah> [    10.939] (II) LoadModule: "nvidia"
<safiyyah> [    10.939] (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/extra-modules/nvidia_drv.so
<safiyyah> [    10.985] (II) Module nvidia: vendor="NVIDIA Corporation"
<safiyyah> [    10.985] 	compiled for 4.0.2, module version = 1.0.0
<safiyyah> [    10.985] 	Module class: X.Org Video Driver
<safiyyah> [    10.990] (II) NVIDIA dlloader X Driver  173.14.28  Wed Sep 29 09:55:18 PDT 2010
<safiyyah> [    11.001] (II) NVIDIA Unified Driver for all Supported NVIDIA GPUs
<safiyyah> [    11.001] (++) using VT number 7
<ali1234> great
<safiyyah> [    11.004] (II) Loading sub module "fb"
<safiyyah> [    11.004] (II) LoadModule: "fb"
<ali1234> also,
<safiyyah> oh damn
<safiyyah> sorry i meant to paste bin
<ali1234> so yeah, popey's xorg.conf now
<ali1234> and it should be all good
<safiyyah> okay just gonna do that now
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, yeah I guess
<safiyyah> okay rebooting
<tta> hi
<HazRPG> ali1234: but could have saved her the hassle if I'd asked which card she was using from the get-go
<hamitron> is there going to be a Gbuntu when unity is default?
<tta> during the installation of ubuntu 10.10 on my laptop when i choosed the language and clicked on "install" the screen displayed a message contening "Ubi-language failed with exit code 2. further information maybe found in/var/log/syslog. please what does that means and what do i have to do?
<ali1234> what language did you choose?
 * hamitron doesn't know if he dare say "try English"
<HazRPG> safiyyah: \o
<HazRPG> guessing everything is working good?
<safiyyah> yes it did!!!!!!!!!!!
<safiyyah> thank you all soooooo much
<safiyyah> so in future stick to version 173
<safiyyah> and that is what was different this time
<HazRPG> safiyyah: yeah, sticking with 173 will probably be your best bet
<safiyyah> okay am writing some notes for myself
<safiyyah> there is something i didnt get
<hamitron> how organised ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: I do the same ;)
<hamitron> :|
<safiyyah> i have to write it because, next time i face this will be in my next upgrade
<HazRPG> hamitron: helps with understanding new stuff
<safiyyah> and i wont remember most of what happened today
<safiyyah> notes help
<tta> french
<safiyyah> thats why i was able to relay a lot of what happened before when popey helped me
<ali1234> tta: have you tried asking on #ubuntu-fr?
<ali1234> tta: also have you verfied the install CD has no errors?
<tta> no errors
<safiyyah> sorry you said geforcee 8400 had driver issues right?
<ali1234> could be language specific, i have never seen anything like this, but then i have never picked french...
<ali1234> safiyyah: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=158418
<ali1234> (nobody answered that post)
<ali1234> bug 660596
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 660596 in nvidia-graphics-drivers (Ubuntu) "Black screen after installing Nvidia drivers on 10.10" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/660596
<HazRPG> safiyyah: Yeah, the 8400 series has been known to have issues.
<HazRPG> its mainly nvidia adding support for new cards in the driver pack, but not checking properly for support issues with older cards
<hamitron> shame it isn't still one driver for all :/
<HazRPG> hamitron: it is, that's the main reason
<safiyyah> okay i have one other question
<HazRPG> I think the current windows version is a 200MB download >_<
 * hamitron point HazRPG to his Geforce 1+2 and TNT cards
<hamitron> :(
<safiyyah> i dont get why when working off the live disk we use ~/target
<HazRPG> I wish they'd just make drivers on a per-series-basis
<safiyyah> i know we made the target directory first
<ali1234> TNT is like 15 years old
<hamitron> and still works fine ;/
<ali1234> !mount
<lubotu3`> mount is used to attach devices to directories. See also https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mount
<ali1234> tl;dr you need to make a directory where to mount a disk
<hamitron> my 1980s motorbike still works, why shouldn't my graphics card that is newer? ;)
<popey> ali1234: done
<ali1234> your 1980s graphics card still work perfectly fine with 1980s software
<HazRPG> safiyyah: ali1234 can probably explain this better, but when your on the LiveCD you need to mount the partition you want to work with so that you can gain access to it, essentially you can name the directory anything you like (not necessarily target)
<safiyyah> so the directory is like a nickname?
<HazRPG> safiyyah: I guess you could say that
<ali1234> technical name is "mount point"
<HazRPG> safiyyah: your use to windows right?
<ali1234> same thing
<HazRPG> safiyyah: think of the "target" as basically making a "C:\" or "D:\" drive
<hamitron> ali1234: depends on your view of "current" software I suppose, but it is this moving target that puts some devs off targeting linux :/
<safiyyah> ali1234,  can you retype the command you gave me to delete xorg.conf ... sorry i was on live CD so it isnt in my xchat history
<safiyyah> HazRPG,  I have been purely ubuntu for 4 years
<safiyyah> am just not as technical as u guys
<safiyyah> i just want to use it and set it up
<safiyyah> end of
<HazRPG> I understand that :)
<HazRPG> I was just trying to explain it in something you might be familiar with though
<ali1234> safiyyah: rm?
<safiyyah> yes but the whole directory
<safiyyah> rm ~target what was it
<ali1234> well you know how it normally goes in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<ali1234> when / is mounted on ~/target
<ali1234> it becomes ~/target/etc/X11/xorg.conf
<ali1234> everything normally in / would be in ~/target
<hamitron> brb, chip butty and coffee time
<HazRPG> guessing my explanation was bad then :(
<safiyyah> okay
<safiyyah> why did we do sudo apt-get install at the beginning?
<safiyyah> am so sorry if am annoying
<ali1234> dunno, i wasn't there
<ali1234> what did you install?
<ali1234> pastebinit?
<safiyyah> lol check in the room popey opened
<ali1234> i closed it
<safiyyah> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/FixingBorkedXFromLiveCD
<safiyyah> thats like step 2
<ali1234> pastebinit is a command line tool to copy text files onto pastebin.com
<ali1234> !pastebinit
<lubotu3`> pastebinit is the command-line equivalent of !pastebin - Command output, or other text can be redirected to pastebinit, which then reports an URL containing the output - To use pastebinit, install the Â« pastebinit Â» package from a package manager - Simple usage: command | pastebinit -b http://paste.ubuntu.com
<HazRPG> safiyyah: from what I can see from your paste, you were meant to put pastebinit
<HazRPG> but you were pasting stuff into paste.ubuntu.com manually :P
<tta> during the installation of ubuntu 10.10 on my laptop when i choosed the language and clicked on "install" the screen displayed a message contening "Ubi-language failed with exit code 2. further information maybe found in/var/log/syslog. please what does that means and what do i have to do?
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> it rejected me so i manually paste binned
<HazRPG> ah
<hamitron> tta: have you tried using English?
<HazRPG> tta: I recall ali1234 asking if you checked the CD for errors, you said you there was no errors. Did you use the CD's in-built checker to get that result? Or how did you check it?
<tta> i tryed english and i burned the cd at the speed of 4x
<hamitron> I'd do as haz/ali said then
<HazRPG> tta: When you load the CD there are several options, one of them is to check that the CD was burnt properly - sometimes even if the software you used to burn it says it was successful, doesn't mean that it actually was.
<safiyyah> okay
<HazRPG> tta: the option says "Check disc for defects"
<kewxedge_> Guys - bit of a longshot question... any of you guys sync ur iPods using anything other than WINE+iTunes ?
<tta> you can be sure that the sofware was good; my problem is to know how i can do to resolve that problem
<safiyyah> ali1234, ctrl-alt-f7 would have returned me back to this screen
<safiyyah> actually nevermind
<safiyyah> i will just note ctrl-alt-f1
<HazRPG> kewxedge_: I don't personally own an iPod, but I know someone who uses Rhythmbox to sync their iPods
<kewxedge_> and/or succesfully got Airport Express working? :)
<safiyyah> as that was supposed to be an alternative to live disk
<ali1234> ctrl-alt-f1 switches to a terminal ctrl alt-f7 switches back to graphics mode
<kewxedge_> thanks HazRPG thats what Ive just been setting up :) It looks alright actually - quite iTunes like as well
<safiyyah> so no1 knows why i was supposed to do sudo apt-get install pastebin
<safiyyah> ?
<HazRPG> kewxedge_: I really like Rythmbox, another one you can try if you want is "Amarok"
<kewxedge_> Amarok, noted *adds to download queue*
<HazRPG> kewxedge_: which has a lot more features
<hamitron> is there one that is good for a large collection?
<hamitron> over a network
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> kewxedge_: if you check the ubuntu software centre, there's a screenshot available for Amarok
<ali1234> safiyyah: it installs pastebinit
<hamitron> say 70,000 songs
<HazRPG> kewxedge_: not sure about Airport Express
<kewxedge_> yeh just looked it up, HazRPG
<HazRPG> kewxedge_: That's the wireless card iirc right?
<kewxedge_> airport express is an annoying one - google and ubuntuforums tell me that pulse should work fine - but it was a bit dodgy for me and crashed the AE :/ lol
<popey> 00:44:42 < kewxedge_> Guys - bit of a longshot question... any of you guys sync ur iPods using anything other than WINE+iTunes ?
<popey> Yes!
<popey> I use a Mac, OSX and iTunes :D
<HazRPG> tta: I'm having a look into your problem
 * hamitron spanks popey teh traitor
<Seeker`> I use windows and iTunes
<tta> yes poppey
<kewxedge_> Seeker`, so did I until this weekend lol p;)
<Azelphur> I use non traitor OS with non traitor hardware
<Azelphur> did you hear rockbox is making it's way to android? :D
<safiyyah> ali1234, thanx
<popey> Azelphur: hows that binary nvidia driver you're using there.. traitor :p
<hamitron> nothing wrong with nvidia ;/
<hamitron> not much right either, but nvm
<popey> :)
<Azelphur> great, it's not that much of a traitor when there's no viable alternative :D
<hamitron> exactly Azelphur
<hamitron> :D
<popey> There is no viable alternative to iPad IMNSHO
<Azelphur> except over nine thousand android tablets
<popey> which _all_ suck
<popey> _all_
<popey> without exception
<Azelphur> lies
<hamitron> not all
<popey> they are either
<popey> a) too small
<popey> b) too short battery life
<safiyyah> ali1234,  ctr-alt-F1 then I would have had to key in start x or xinit?
<popey> c) old version of android
<popey> d) have no google marketplace
<popey> and so on
<ali1234> safiyyah: there are many ways to run X
<ali1234> just "X" will do it if you are root
<hamitron> c and d can normally be undone
<popey> hamitron: shouldn't have to
<hamitron> very true
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> you won't see any programs, just a grey background and a small X in the middle
<popey> but I agree
<popey> anyway, bed :)
<Azelphur> popey: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-2-3G-ePad-Android-2-1-1080p-WiFi-GPS-MID-Tablet-PC-/290537605420?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43a564092c#ht_5804wt_1020 :D
<popey> nn
<Azelphur> do I win?
<hamitron> nn popey
<popey> "win"
<popey> broken link for me :)
<Azelphur> 3.2k mAh battery, android 2.1 and seems like a decent size
<Azelphur> took me all of 20 seconds to find :P
<popey> that is hideous
<Azelphur> 1024x600 resolution on the screen too
<ali1234> but isn;t the ePAD rubbish?
<popey> seriously, its awful
<hamitron> my cars fuel tank is twice the size (but I only get 2mpg)
<Azelphur> I thought it looks quite nice, what's wrong with it? o.O
<popey> ethernet port, on a tablet, _really_?
 * hamitron wants ethernet more than wifi
<safiyyah> ali1234,  if you are root how do you go back to being a user at the terminal?
<popey> no 3g
<ali1234> safiyyah: "exit"
<popey> 4 hours battery
<Azelphur> popey: yes 3g? o.O
<popey> so fails at b)
<popey> no
<HazRPG> tta: Might be worth asking in #ubuntu-fr like ali1234 said, since I can't find that problem
<popey> 3g is a usb dongle
<Azelphur> oh fail :(
<ali1234> half the ebay description is probably lies anyawy
<hamitron> CTRL+d
<popey> no, you do not win
<tta> stereocaulon:i pasted it in #ubuntu-fr
<ali1234> it's probably even worse than that
<safiyyah> ali1234,  that didnt work
<safiyyah> am still root
<ali1234> sure it did
<safiyyah> i did su root
<popey> anyway, we'll do this again some time
<popey> :)
<popey> nn
 * Azelphur cries
<Azelphur> lol
<safiyyah> popey are u saving the doc ?
<hamitron> he will be researching this all night now Azelphur ;)
<hamitron> so he can beat you
<HazRPG> tta: There shouldn't be any problems if the disc is fine though.
<tta> the disc is fine
<hamitron> wtf is a TF card?
<ali1234> transflash
<safiyyah> ali1234,  definitely am still root
<safiyyah> lol
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> safiyyah: type it again then
<HazRPG> tta: Can you work me through the process before that problem happens please :).
<HazRPG> tta: step by step, what happens
<HazRPG> going to try the same thing on my spare machine
<safiyyah> ali1234, thank you!
<safiyyah> sorry i have eaten 3 apples and half a melon
<safiyyah> and several pieces of spinach flan
<safiyyah> since this mvidia drama
<hamitron> and now you need to relieve yourself? ;/
<safiyyah> i dont want another episode so.... i am making notes to avoid the headache... or help me understand the headache next time
<safiyyah> no now am thinking..... my terminal say safiyyah@Pink-Geranium:$
<safiyyah> why did i name it pink-geranium
<safiyyah> and i tried changing hostname and got nothing
<safiyyah> lol
<tta>  i downloaded the software on http://ubuntu.com/netbook/get ubuntu/download, i burned it with "nero" at 4x for the speed and i tried to install it and the problem occurs
<ali1234> hostname doesn't permanently change it
<safiyyah> hamitron, i ate so now am wide awake lol
<hamitron> :D
<safiyyah> ali1234,  so what does one do?
<HazRPG> safiyyah: that's easy to change
<ali1234> gksudo gedit /etc/hostname
<HazRPG> ...
<HazRPG> was just about to say that
<HazRPG> :P
<ali1234> then reboot
<ali1234> (you can restart some service but i can't remember which one)
<HazRPG> would be not have to change /etc/hosts ?
<ali1234> maybe
<hamitron> mine only have localhost in
<hamitron> has*
<hamitron> so I'd say just /etc/hostname
<safiyyah> so is there a website with commandline arguements for ubuntu?
<hamitron> google?
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: I had to change both /etc/hostname and /etc/hosts on my sister's machine the other day
<HazRPG> safiyyah: just general command line tools?
<ali1234> http://www.commandlinefu.com/commands/browse
<hamitron> I like the book Linux In A Nutshell
<hamitron> you can bet you can't always get online when you need the commandline ;)
<safiyyah> hamitron,  that is like super true
<hamitron> but tbh, these days you often don't need the commandline
<ali1234> "how to get online when computer is broke" is the most useful skill you can learn
<hamitron> yeh :)
<HazRPG> I like the O'Reilly Pocket Reference books
<ali1234> on ubuntu "sudo dhclient" is usually enough
<ali1234> unless you use wireless, then it's time to go find a network cable
<safiyyah> lol ali1234
<safiyyah> lol
<hamitron> and an ethernet port (note this down Azelphur)
<Azelphur> o.O
<hamitron> useful arguement against the iPad ;)
<hamitron> you need an ethernet port sometimes
<HazRPG> safiyyah: I'd recommend this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Linux-Pocket-Guide-Essential-Commands/dp/0596006284/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1298941732&sr=8-1
<ali1234> if you're trying to hack some tablet device you need serial
<safiyyah> hamitron,  u had to pick an expensive book
<safiyyah> lol
<ali1234> not ethernet, not usb... rs232 serial
<hamitron> 20 quid?
<ali1234> the reason for this is you can easily write to serial port with only machine code
<hamitron> but ethernet normally works ;)
<ali1234> not if you are porting linux
<hamitron> what has that got to do with it? ;)
<ali1234> well ipad doesn't run linux
<hamitron> oh
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> so true
<ali1234> why buy one unless you intend to port it?
<HazRPG> safiyyah: its basically a small reference book with all (if not most) linux commands
<hamitron> it is a tough choice
<hamitron> iPad is very expensive to brick :/
<ali1234> brick is not problem
<ali1234> after you discover serial, next look for jtag
<hamitron> fry ;/
<safiyyah> thank you
<safiyyah> so to ask... do each of you guys own linux books?
<ali1234> i don't own any linux books
<safiyyah> rofl
<safiyyah> what just google?
<hamitron> I have 8
<ali1234> i just read the manual pages
<safiyyah> hamitron, how old are you?
<hamitron> 28
<safiyyah> god we are old
<safiyyah> we like books
<safiyyah> ur my age mate btw
<hamitron> haha
<safiyyah> that makes me feel better because i prefer a book
<HazRPG> safiyyah: I've got 3
<safiyyah> to manual pages for the most part
<safiyyah> lol
<hamitron> tbh, manual pages are better
<ali1234> or --help
<safiyyah> i'll borrow it from the library first
<ali1234> if that doesn't work i get the source and read that
<safiyyah> sometimes --help serves to confuse me further
<safiyyah> the source?
<hamitron> to me, it is nicer to read a book on a train, than a man page
<hamitron> or on the toilet
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> safiyyah: ali can code, so he can read the source code that made the command
<HazRPG> safiyyah: and you can see, line by line, what its doing
<hamitron> and reading a book is sort of more human like, not just a reference
<ali1234> if there's no code, there's always objdump -d
<safiyyah> hamitron i think we r more alike on that
<safiyyah> ali what do you do for a living?
<safiyyah> oh hamitron.... we r alike but i dont read anything in the loo
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> i get in and get out
<ali1234> anything involving computers
<safiyyah> no hanging about there
<hamitron> I didn't dare ask... ;)
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> i noticed the loo comment afterwards lol
<safiyyah> and i thought "hell no.... not me"
<safiyyah> did u go to uni doing computers?
<ali1234> yes
<hamitron> geek!
<hamitron> ;)
<safiyyah> software engineering?
<ali1234> computer science. got a 3rd
<ali1234> rest of year went to work at transmeta making http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_%28software%29
<hamitron> it is nice to see a computer scientist who is a proper programmer tbh
<HazRPG> ali1234: I wish I did computer science... "computing" it turns out, isn't the same thing - they failed to mention that to me when I did it :/
<ali1234> sorry, transitive, not transmeta
<ali1234> most of computer science is kind of boring
<hamitron> I did it at A level, that was enough for me
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> at A level it's totally different
<hamitron> I was all computers, until I did that
<HazRPG> I never had the choice, most of my computing knowledge I had to learn myself
<HazRPG> when I lived in saudi
<safiyyah> you got a 3rd and you are a genius at this?
<safiyyah> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ubuntu-Linux-Toolbox-Commands-Debian/dp/0470082933/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b what about this book?
<ali1234> if you think i am a genius you should meet the people who got 1sts
<HazRPG> computing class consisted of everyone sat around various computers playing either "prince.exe" or "quake.exe"
<ali1234> prince of persia lol
<hamitron> most people who get better than me on my degree just cheated ;/
<HazRPG> ali1234: haha yeah
<hamitron> thinking about it, most cheated :/
<ali1234> someone from my year won the obfuscated C contest one year
<ali1234> actually i think he won it twice
<safiyyah> which uni?
<HazRPG> safiyyah: thing about degrees, you need to be good at writing stuff - and memorising key words - if you can do that, you can pass... my step-dad has 7 degrees in completely not related stuff
<ali1234> manchester
<safiyyah> gosh
<safiyyah> it makes me feel dumb just hearing about the people who got firsts
<hamitron> what is the point of making code hard to read btw? ;/
<safiyyah> HazRPG,  if you lived in Saudi that would be why they were playing
<hamitron> I know it is clever
<hamitron> but bit pointless?
<safiyyah> typically arabs dont want to actually learn, they cram... pass the exam and go back to life
<ali1234> hamitron: of course it is pointless
<safiyyah> or shall i say go back to playing
<hamitron> selling dodgy gear? ;)
<HazRPG> safiyyah: sadly yes, but considering I was at a british school... you'd think more wouldn't you
<safiyyah> doesnt matter british school
<safiyyah> culture is like that
<safiyyah> their parents are Arabs
<HazRPG> safiyyah: also, tread lightly - my mothers an arab :P
<safiyyah> there ends the case
<safiyyah> am sure she is
<ali1234> i used to have a job in a building 100 yards from this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alan_Turing_Memorial_Closer.jpg
<safiyyah> its a culture within Arabs
<safiyyah> am not insulting anyone
<HazRPG> safiyyah: fantastic midwife, and an even better doctor - she's good with law too
<safiyyah> i didnt say it fits everyone
<safiyyah> some of the best doctors i know are iraqi... but hang on arent they persian?
<HazRPG> safiyyah: guessing you've hung around them though :P
<safiyyah> lol
<ali1234> persia = iran isn't it?
<safiyyah> i am a convert into islam
<ali1234> that's what an iranian guy told me
<safiyyah> oh yes, thank you Ali
<HazRPG> safiyyah: typically arabs, as you said, cram/memorise just to pass their exams
<safiyyah> being a muslim slung me full force into a range of cultures
<hamitron> safiyyah: you mean "alah" ;)
<safiyyah> and then being black.... you experience their ugly side alot
<hamitron> or however it is spelt
<hamitron> :s
<HazRPG> safiyyah: I hate the term convert - technically according to the religion, you're a revert
<safiyyah> am a convert .... we wont word play this
<safiyyah> cos i will argue
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> i consciously made a choice to change what i knew
<safiyyah> what i knew before that was church and christianity
<safiyyah> it was definitely a conversion
<safiyyah> one which uprooted all things familiar in my life
<safiyyah> family etc
<safiyyah> u going back to something implies familiarity
<safiyyah> although i know the whole arguement about the fitrah etc
<safiyyah> this is my position
<hamitron> all this talk of going back...
<hamitron> talking me out of using ubuntu :/
<HazRPG> hamitron: lies :P
<hamitron> <-- unhappy
<hamitron> ;p
<safiyyah> but anyway my point was, being black... all races are in unison... they have all decided that blacks are inferior on some level. you will be surprised what people say and do
<HazRPG> safiyyah: also, my parents never told my school about my religion because they wanted me to pick too
<safiyyah> moreover some people don't get i am black because of the hijaab and they come out with some sh**
<safiyyah> lucky for them, am not aggressive
<safiyyah> hamitron lol, windows
<hamitron> how dare you!
<safiyyah> does the blue screen make you feel welcome
<safiyyah> lol
<hamitron> :(
<hamitron> slackware
<hamitron> :/
<safiyyah> roflllllllll
<safiyyah> lol
<hamitron> kernel 2.4 too
<hamitron> :)
<safiyyah> i think it's time i understood the paces with ubuntu
<safiyyah> this book you like, linux in a nutshell
<safiyyah> the networking mish mash
<safiyyah> i never understood it
<hamitron> tbh
<safiyyah> does this work within ubuntu or should i get an ubuntu book
<hamitron> ubuntu have many built in tools to make it easier
<HazRPG> safiyyah: so primary school, etc I learned about Christianity/Buddhism/Jew-ism/Islam here in the UK, and then when I went to Saudi because my mum got a job there, I learned more about other religions
<hamitron> has*
<HazRPG> safiyyah: might be better off getting an ubuntu-based book :)
<hamitron> imo, there is no point
<hamitron> getting a ubuntu book is like getting a newbie guide
<safiyyah> hamitron show me ur book vote then
<safiyyah> which book are you voting
<hamitron> it depends what you want to learn
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> the OS or distro is only part of the story
<safiyyah> networks, setting up a home network and just the commandline arguements
<safiyyah> i will get the little book for that
<ali1234> HazRPG: you forgot hinduism and sikhism, or don't they teach those any more in RE?
<hamitron> I've personally found most books to do with any linux or distro is just not in depth enough
<hamitron> so you have to get specialist books for what you want
<safiyyah> hmm thank you for that
<safiyyah> okay we will start with the command line book
<HazRPG> ali1234: RE is saudi mainly consisted of Islamic studies and Christianity
<safiyyah> i will pop to the library and see what i can borrow
<safiyyah> and when am ready i will get the networking books
<ali1234> HazRPG: i mean in the UK
<HazRPG> ali1234: everything else I learned at primary school, and generally talking to people of different cultures
<hamitron> for the command line, I'd use some online tutorials
<HazRPG> ali1234: in primary school I only learned the 4 I mentioned
<hamitron> to learn it
<HazRPG> safiyyah: hmm, as hamitron said it depends what you want to learn, however believing that ubuntu books are only "newbie" guides is incorrect
<HazRPG> safiyyah: Ubuntu Hacks, a book I own, goes into some nice details about the ins and outs of things
<HazRPG> safiyyah: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ubuntu-Hacks-Tools-Exploring-Tuning/dp/0596527209/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1298943627&sr=1-7
<hamitron> not all no
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> just most ;)
<HazRPG> safiyyah: you can browse the chapters straight from amazon
<hamitron> I also don't believe in restricting your training to the ways of 1 distro
<ali1234> command line stuff transfers, GUI stuff does not
<ali1234> even ubuntu changes the whole GUI around every couple of years
<HazRPG> ali1234: that book I mentioned does have stuff that transfers
<hamitron> running a commandline server is probably the best way to learn the commandline
<HazRPG> ali1234: first 4 chapters is usual stuff, chapter 5 to 10 is advanced stuff
<hamitron> you are forced to learn, to do stuff
<safiyyah> i found one for free on pdf
<safiyyah> if anyone wants
<HazRPG> safiyyah: Ubuntu Hacks?
<safiyyah> http://www.slideshare.net/guest2dcaa1/ubuntulinuxtoolbox1000pluscommandsforubuntuanddebianpowerusers
<safiyyah> no no ubuntu and debian 1000+ commands
<lubotu3`> Error: Debian bug 1000 could not be found
<hamitron> :)
<safiyyah> have u got ubuntu hacks?
<HazRPG> hmm, that website killed my browser!
<ali1234> mine too
<safiyyah> well i got no probs
<safiyyah> lol
<hamitron> she hax u ;)
<HazRPG> safiyyah: I've got the actual book yeah :)
<safiyyah> you do
<safiyyah> well this is a full pdf of the book
<safiyyah> well i can e-mail it to you if you want
<safiyyah> if the browser is murdering you
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> opera browser is really good for stuff like this
<ali1234> here's some of the computing books i own that are good:
<ali1234> http://authors.phptr.com/tanenbaumcn4/
<safiyyah> guys am really grateful for helping me fix nvidia
<safiyyah> makes my monitor feel like home
<safiyyah> thanks so much
<ali1234> http://maven.smith.edu/~orourke/books/compgeom.html
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language
<ali1234> http://www.charlespetzold.com/pw5/
<hamitron> the C book
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> that's about it :)
<ali1234> the others... i wish i had not bought
<HazRPG> safiyyah: its fine, I got the site working
<safiyyah> Computational Geometry
<HazRPG> safiyyah: no problem
<safiyyah> that one... it may as well be space engineering
<safiyyah> seriously!
<safiyyah> the rest are great
<hamitron> I liked this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Linux-Networking-Roderick-Smith/dp/0201774232/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1298944519&sr=1-1
<hamitron> but maybe dated
<HazRPG> safiyyah: I'd still recommend Ubuntu Hacks
<ali1234> computer networks is probably a bit dated, don't think it covers ipv6. mine doesn't anyway
<hamitron> no
<HazRPG> keep meaning to re-read mine to refresh my memory, since I bought it back when I didn't really do much in ubuntu (6.06 days)
<safiyyah> hamitron : what the ubuntu hack book?
<hamitron> I have no ubuntu books
<hamitron> is there really a need to cover IPv6 when learning?
<HazRPG> sort of... I mean IPv4 is almost all used up
<safiyyah> goodnight
<hamitron> nn saf
<safiyyah> and thanks again guys
<hamitron> but hosting services on a local IPv4 network is good way to learn
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] textmockuptool - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/03/01/textmockuptool
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is there a way to create a installer which installs apache2,mysql and php and all the dependencies ?
<Myrtti> why?
<Myrtti> it's not rocket science to install them without such an installer
<ball> What videoconferencing software do people use on Ubuntu?
 * ball gives up and goes to bed
<ball> Happy St. David's Day!
<DJones> Morning all
<hoover_> mornin
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> 3hello all
<MartijnVdS> 4hi MooDoo
<dwatkins> Happy Tuesday to one and all.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: indeed
 * mungojerry has been up with a feverish baby all night..hoping for an easy day at the office
<MooDoo> mungojerry: finished work at midnight, up at 6:30 with my two year old, hard works isn't it ;)
<dwatkins> mungojerry: aww :(
<MooDoo> mungojerry: hugs any way :)
<mungojerry> poor little munchkin was delirious and giggling like a maniac
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mungojerry> at least the heating is on in the office today..man it's cold again in london
<mungojerry> starting the day with an aptitude upgrade on my natty box :)
<mungojerry> MooDoo: why working so late? shift work?
<screen-x> morning :)
<MooDoo> mugyeah
<MooDoo> mungojerry: yes
<popey> morning
<screen-x> morning popey :)
<bigcalm> Evening
 * screen-x updates bigcalm's tzdata
<bigcalm> Aha
<MooDoo> morning popey
<JamesTait> Happy first of meteorological Spring (Northern Hemisphere)/Autumn (Southern Hemisphere)!
<JamesTait> Catchy, huh?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: er yeah same to you ;)
 * bigcalm ponders hybernation
<screen-x> bigcalm: bit late for that
<bigcalm> Maybe just a nap then
 * screen-x testdrives testrdrive
<nigelb> morning UKites
<screen-x> hmm read that as "you kites"
<danfish> morning
<danfish> yet another gloriously cloudy and grey day to enjoy :(
<JamesTait> The sun keeps trying to break through here.
<MooDoo> it's cloudy here, still dry so i'm happy on my motorbike
<danfish> and procreate'
<danfish> oops - were'd the rest of that sentence go? nvm
<danfish> time to make CAKE
<MartijnVdS> danfish: And a looooooong jacket
<MooDoo> cake o/
 * bigcalm enjoys the sun while he can
<dutchie> you have sun?
 * dutchie jealous
 * mungojerry is huddled around a radiator to keep warm
<danfish> dutchie: just get the physics department to whip up an artificial sun ;)
<bigcalm> A SAD lamp?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: didn't know what one of them was until i saw one at my mum and dads
<danfish> bigcalm: nah - he's at Oxford - a few grams of hydrogen, a few volts and boom, a little hydrogen fusion machine!
<dutchie> danfish: heh, the physics department *is* only next door
<danfish> :D
<screen-x> dutchie: I'm not sure thats a safe distance
<dutchie> haha
<bigcalm> 1st March always surprises me due to Feb being short. Direct Debits hover the join account quite effectively
<danfish> despite being married for a 'gbh' term, still no joint account
<MooDoo> danfish: makes things a little easier,
<bigcalm> danfish: you surprise me
<MooDoo> danfish: get paid, DD the lot to the joint account ;)
<popey> i only have a joint account
<bigcalm> MooDoo: very much so. We pay all of our bills and buy food on the joint yet keep our own independent accounts
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yeah we do that too
<danfish> I'm not trusted with the finances - wife's an accountant
<screen-x> danfish: 10 years?
<danfish> screen-x: yup
<bigcalm> danfish: that sounds handy
<danfish> her b'day today, so hence the cake making
<bigcalm> Happy Birthday Mrs Fish
 * danfish puts on a high voice and says 'Why thankyou bigcalm':P 
<bigcalm> Haha
<popey> lol
<danfish> all ready for the show 2nite popey?
<bigcalm> Broadcasting Live In 00 Days, 10 Hours, 04 Minutes, 07 Seconds.
<screen-x> heh in my calendar for tomorrow, I have uupc release, and ipad event..
<bigcalm> You think that the show will be edited down and ready for release tomorrow?
<screen-x> bigcalm: well, it's in the uupc calendar..
<bigcalm> Aha
<danfish> bigcalm: you did volunteer to do the editing......
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<mungojerry> also 9 days to go before somebody does a rm -rf / on opensuse.org
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> *ahem*
<mungojerry> shame, i liked their logo
<MooDoo> mungojerry: huh?  it being closed down?
<bigcalm> Suse was the 1st boxed linux distro that I bought back in the late 90s. Odd times with only dialup connections
 * screen-x has a fluffy cameleon from oggcamp \o/
<bigcalm> I should have nabbed one myself
<bigcalm> Ho hum
<mungojerry> MooDoo: was a little bit tongue in cheek...don't know what will happen to suse after the novell sale to attachmate
<MooDoo> mungojerry: ah!
<dutchie> bigcalm: i donated that to my sister :)
<mungojerry> did popey disclose the new venue for oggcamp yet?
<bigcalm> Not that I've seen
<MooDoo> mungojerry: down south, that's about all we know
<popey> :)
<screen-x> secretive popey is secretive
<popey> my son has a fluffy Suse cameleon from oggcamp too
<popey> he really likes it
 * AlanBell wonders if it will be announced in tonights podcast
 * mungojerry checks on ebay for fluffy chameleons
<mungojerry> i'm going to a trade show on friday..best i'll get is a couple of naff stress toys
<dutchie> not even a mug?
<mungojerry> last year i got a vmware leatherette folder and nice pen.
<mungojerry> now i'm a paying customer i think i deserve the umbrella
<screen-x> haha
<mungojerry> redhat gave me a notebook
<screen-x> mungojerry: was that a vforum?
<mungojerry> insight show
<daubers> \o/ oggcamp
<mungojerry> i have loads of redhat gear from when i did a RHCE and there were only 4 in the class, so we got promo gear for 20 people divided up between us
<mungojerry> :)
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> Nice
<mungojerry> wrote an email this morning in the wrong frame of mind only to discover 1hr later i had not sent it. phew...deleted all the incriminating bits
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/new-in-labs-stop-sending-mail-you-later.html
<bigcalm> I used that for a while for some amusement
<mungojerry> MartijnVdS: maybe i need a mood test before sending mine
<bigcalm> Sadly I shite at mental maths, bloody dyslexia, so removed it
<mungojerry> is getting rogered from all sides at the moment
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: go for a run.. after 10-20km you'll feel at peace with the world :)
<daubers> mungojerry: Or paint! Nothing as relaxing as letting your mind wander while you paint some models
<mungojerry> pointy haired bosses are still here when i come back
<mungojerry> daubers:  i agree - i do like making and painting airfixes :)
<bigcalm> I juggle to clear my mind
<mungojerry> maybe i should bring some to work
<mungojerry> feels rather pointless working on projects when you think everything is about to be canned
<mungojerry> that's probably why i'm not lurking on irc lately :(
<daubers> mungojerry: I've not built airfix in years. Took up Warhammer after christmas though
<mungojerry> is that like games workshop stuff?
<mungojerry> i've seen some great stuff
<daubers> It is games workshop stuff
<mungojerry> you can enjoy that stuff and every age and ability
<daubers> Indeed :) Currently painting one of these http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440247a&prodId=prod1850000
<daubers> which is incredibly fiddly
<mungojerry> are they pre-constructed?
<daubers> Nope. Same as airfix
<daubers> Some of the models are metal, which are preconstructed, but the majority are plastic parts on frames
<bigcalm> Airfix sounds more appealing to me. I'm not into stats and such
<daubers> bigcalm: I know someone who does it just to build and paint them. Doesn't actually play the game
<BigRedS> yeah, I've known a couple of people do that
<BigRedS> find it quite relaxing
<daubers> I find it _the_ best way to relieve stress
<mungojerry> http://i.imgur.com/4g9TP.jpg
<mungojerry> one of my more recent efforts
<bigcalm> Maybe I'll start with this one: http://www.airfix.com/search/?searchguid=20113111832
<BigRedS> I used to do a bit of airfix, but I was never anywhere near happy with the painting :(
<mungojerry> bigcalm: link didn't work :(
<bigcalm> The one that James May built (with help) is at the local RAF base, looks cool
<BigRedS> some of their fast jets models use plastic that's aready the right colour, though :)
<mungojerry> BigRedS: i did it when i was a kid, then took it up again a couple of years back
<mungojerry> painting improves with time and patience
<mungojerry> and good paint and brushes
<mungojerry> if anyone likes wallace and gromit, then airfix do a great kit
<bigcalm> http://www.airfix.com/airfix-products/aircraft/military-aircraft/19301950/a01001-btk-spitfire-a01001/
<mungojerry> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kieRIUWhKvjrm6U2sgQkjQ?feat=directlink
<BigRedS> mungojerry: I have recently had a hankering for a hurricane hanging from my ceiling again...
<mungojerry> bigcalm: prob a nice one to start with. you might need a coat of acrylic primer spray can from halfords before you paint the model proper
<bigcalm> mungojerry: noted, ta
<mungojerry> the RAF museum in hendon is superb for reference materiak
<Daviey> gmb, I felt privileged just now - getting an email: "Graham Binns wants to be your friend".... I was over the moon... Then the goodness got destroyed with "...on Gowalla."
<gmb> Daviey: You know that I already love you in an inappropriate fashion, so don't feel too downhearted.
<Daviey> \o/
<daubers> bigcalm: basecoat ++
<Daviey> gmb, we could have a slumber party soon.. eat pizza and stay up REALLY late.
<daubers> I'll be happy once I've built this http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440252a&prodId=prod770022a and can start painting it
<bigcalm> Hayley and I should go back to RAF Cosford. Huge place we have yet to finish looking around
<mungojerry> GW seems to provide great opportunity for weathering techniques
<mungojerry> hmm natty is taking longer to get to a working desktop from the login prompt than windows XP
<BigRedS> I used to live behind RAF Hendon. Now that I don't, I keep wanting to go visit it...
<screen-x> BigRedS: yeah, it seems odd to visit places when you live too near them.
<mungojerry> yeah, like london sights
<screen-x> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable-stayed_bridge (just to keep things on topic)
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> screen-x: which topic?
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<screen-x> bigcalm: /topic
<mungojerry> !topic
<bigcalm> Aha
<lubotu3`> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<bigcalm> !
<mungojerry> what's the best app for ripping CDs to mp3 without needing to enter complicated parameters to the lame encoder?
<Baikonur> iTunes
<AlanBell> rhythmbox kinda works for me
<Baikonur> ...
<DJones> mungojerry: I use sound  juicer
<mungojerry> it's funny, i always buy music digitally now, but i've been given some CDs and realised i haven't ripped music for 3 years or so...apps have improved since then
 * MartijnVdS still buys loads of CDs
<bigcalm> Progress is good
<MartijnVdS> U1MS doesn't have 50% of music here in .nl :(
<bigcalm> I listen to stuff on Spotify and then buy CDs of the stuff I like
<mungojerry> although i still have a bunch of CDs that didn't retrieve the cddb info :(
<BigRedS> I've only paid for music again since I got spotify a few months ago
<BigRedS> until then, I'd just not bothered with new music, or listened to the raido
<bigcalm> 6music \o/
<BigRedS> hah, no, radio 4 :)
<bigcalm> I find http://soundcloud.com/ninja-tune is good to have in the background while coding
<mungojerry> the 2 CDs i got were ones I have listened to probably 30 times on spotify and then chose to buy
<davmor2> mungojerry: banshee, rhythmbox, sound juicer all do it with realtive ease,  for mp3 you need to modify the settings in RB
<BigRedS> bigcalm: hah, I think the last CD I bought was a Ninja Tune compilation thingy
<mungojerry> thanks, i just realised there have been imporovments..
<mungojerry> previously rhythmbox required a lame command line to get decent quality (their presets were bad)
<mungojerry> apart from a few annoyances, banshee has become my favourite music player since amarok 1.x
<jacobw> i think still have a modify a command line string in gnome audio profiles to improve the MP3 encoding in RB
<Myrtti> popey â¥
<mungojerry> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/611
<mungojerry> ^^ shuttleworth posted about that banshee argument
<mungojerry> jacobw: yeah, i have some stuff in my library that rhythmbox did a rotten job of
<mungojerry> and even older stuff in ogg format when i thought that ogg would gain acceptance
<popey> Myrtti: hmm?
<popey> mp3c is quite a good cd ripper btw :)
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: I have everything in FLAC
<MartijnVdS> ripped using sound-juicer (\o/ musicbrainz support/tagging)
<mungojerry> MartijnVdS: which mp3 player do you and significant other use?
<Myrtti> popey: recent emails on a mailing list
<popey> oh
<popey> :)
<mungojerry> i have a cowon iaudio which supports ogg/flac but Mrs MJ does not
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: Android phone.. but banshee (and rhythmbox) converts to mp3 when putting it on the device
<mungojerry> MartijnVdS: when i started ripping in 2001 , disk space was precious
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: welcome to 2011 :P
<mungojerry> i could employ a slave to do it all again for me
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: I re-ripped in '06 or something
<mungojerry> flu? broken leg? boredom
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: boredom, disk crash :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<jacobw> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi jacobw
<brobostigon> 726102, my first bug i have filed that has been fixed, yay, :)
<jacobw> \o/
<brobostigon> thank you to the indicator-datetime guys, :)
<HazRPG> hi all \o
<brobostigon> afternoonings HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: afternoon :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: indicator-datetime?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: its part of unity, goes up in the top righ hand corner, to display date and time, and with a click a calandar. right next to the me menu.
<MartijnVdS> it replaces the old calendar thingy from Gnome, I guess
<brobostigon> i would agree.yes.
<brobostigon> can someone confirm https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/726179 who are also on natty, please.
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 726179 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "stuttery adobe flash chromium video playback" [Undecided,New]
<brobostigon> help*
<mungojerry> brobostigon:
<mungojerry> i will take a look now, chrome on natty vs lucid
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i used chromium, not chrome. but they are both basiclly the same, do you also have said intel chipset?
<mungojerry> sorry i meant chromium
 * BigRedS is a bit bemused that `apachectl start` returns 0 even when apache fails to start
<popey> 5nice
<dutchie> popey: seem to have a bit of a 5 overload atm
<brobostigon> mungojerry: that would be good if you could test it, thank you,
<mungojerry> just trying it now
<mungojerry> full screen flash brobostigon?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i had it on normal screen size, not full screen.
<mungojerry> seems ok
<brobostigon> mungojerry: in natty, with the same eeepc model, with the same gpu type?
<mungojerry> although i don't have speakers. video seems smooth on intel 82945G
<mungojerry> CPU is 100% though
<mungojerry> i suspect i would get similar results on my eee 701
<brobostigon> it is a little better than it was, but nowhere near as good as in maverick.
<mungojerry> is your cpu flatlining?
<brobostigon> more or less, yes.
<brobostigon> mungojerry: is this in natty?
<mungojerry> yes
<mungojerry> but not an eee pc...just a regular pc with intel gfx
<brobostigon> hmmm, i suspect it isnt comparable then. because the HW isnt close enough.
<mungojerry> i will check on my eee pc when i have time..although would need to run from liveusb though
<brobostigon> try it with persistant, and update xorg and the intel drivers, so it is a comparable test.
<BigRedS> q!
<BigRedS> heh. wrong windwo
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah cool
<bigcalm> I wish I could send emails from outlook with :wq!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<kaushal> hi
<hamitron> afternoon :)
<kaushal> hamitron: hi
<kaushal> can some one please guide me about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-March/240573.html ?
<screen-x> kaushal: pay someone to write kernel modules faster
<kaushal> screen-x: so it boils down to develop kernel module for the new chipset ?
<popey> kaushal: buy stuff that works, and contact manufacturers and let them know you use Linux and would like a driver
<kaushal> popey: so a driver would be also called as Kernel module ?
<kaushal> in linux terminology
<popey> depends
<popey> there may already be a driver which just needs different options
<popey> or the existing driver may work, but might need to be called in a different way or via a different address
<brobostigon> cuppa time.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dave Morris] Reinstalling everything on Ubuntu - http://davemorris.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/reinstalling-everything-on-ubuntu/
<BigRedS> Is there a Free alternative to Fantastico?
 * popey googles it
<BigRedS> it seems to do automated wordpress installs
<BigRedS> that's the bit I've been asked for anyway
<popey> they're semi automatic already
<screen-x> BigRedS: could you have one install and use mu?
<popey> can't be that hard
<andylockran> howdy all
<MooDoo> *yawn*
<BigRedS> nah, I just wondered if someone else had already gone to all the effort :)
 * brobostigon gets MooDoo a cuppa.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: need one :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: you're welcome, :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon:  :)
 * brobostigon scp's MooDoo a large mug of tea.
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> why thank you
<brobostigon> :) you're welcome.
<brobostigon> TTP - Tea transfer protocol. :)
<BigRedS> screen-x: perhaps. I've no idea what mu is and google's not helping :)
 * BigRedS tries apt-cache
<dutchie> BigRedS: multiuser
<BigRedS> ohhhh
<BigRedS> yeah, that should have been more obvious to me than it was :)
<screen-x> oooh, sorry wasnt watching.
<the_evil_gungur> could anyone here help me configure lilo to boot ubuntu?
<gord> http://www.joystiq.com/2011/03/01/the-humble-indie-bundle-leaving-no-customer-behind/ - makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside to hear people say "yes, if you make games for linux, people will buy them with enthusiasm!"
<the_evil_gungur> I have a line   image = /vmlinuz in my lilo.conf , and lilo errors  Fatal: open /vmlinuz: No such file or directory
<screen-x> the_evil_gungur: do you have a specific need for lilo over grub?
<the_evil_gungur> screen-x: no, can i reinstall grub with the livecd?
<brobostigon> !grub2
<lubotu3`> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
<screen-x> the_evil_gungur: yes
<brobostigon> the_evil_gungur: yes, you can.
<HazRPG> Anyone here use Calibre?
<popey> yup
<MartijnVdS> Calibre rocks
<HazRPG> :)
<HazRPG> What options do you guys use for conversion?
<MartijnVdS> defaults mostly
<HazRPG> Does that work out ok?
<MartijnVdS> speaking of which
<MartijnVdS> I've meen meaning to tune font size a bit :)
<MartijnVdS> landscape fonts are HUGE on my device atm :)
<popey> i dont do conversion
<mungojerry> gord: how many games from the indie bundle have you played?
<gord> mungojerry, all of them
<HazRPG> popey: guessing you make sure the formats you get them in are compatible from the  get go?
<gord> i had bought at least half of them before though so i had a headstart
<mungojerry> i bought HIB2 and only played machinarium and a bit of the blobs one
<HazRPG> mungojerry: all
<dutchie> mungojerry: but lugaru is so good!
<gord> maybe you should play them? aquaria is a masterpiece
<mungojerry> gord, which bundle was that in?
<gord> the first
<mungojerry> dutchie: is lugaru the nija bunny one?
<dutchie> yeah
<mungojerry> hmm didn't look that good
<mungojerry> machinarium i loved, i played it to completion
<HazRPG> I really like Machinarium :)
<mungojerry> however i just bought donkey kong returns on the wii..probably the only game i will play for a while
<mungojerry> i should play the others or the HIB price i paid doesn't work out that well :P ..didn't get on with braid that much. wasn't sure why i couldn't complete levels
<HazRPG> hmm, the conversion Calibre did was pretty good - however making its own ToC was a bit poor
<popey> HazRPG: I dont actually even think about it
<popey> HazRPG: it just works
<HazRPG> considering it already had a ToC
<mungojerry> oooh http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/webupd8/~3/oxTrzf26kUA/ubuntu-live-cd-will-let-you-upgrade-to.html
<popey> :)
<AlanBell> is that a gui option for the "don't nuke /home" thing?
<davmor2> AlanBell: possibly it's been able to do it for a while you just had to do manual partitioning
<kaushal> popey: hi
<kaushal> saw your reply
<HazRPG> mungojerry: Ooo, nice!
<kaushal> I have USB Dongle connected to my Ubuntu Laptop. How do i share the Wifi or Internet to other users in the same network
<popey> there are other nice features in the installer with this realease
<popey> right, so you want to move the conversation from the mailing list to here?
<kaushal> sure
<popey> thats annoying for everyone on the list who will now never see the answers
<popey> and for people who search for that term
<popey> hey ho
<kaushal> np
<kaushal> please comment it in the Mailing list only
<mungojerry> kaushal: also, for questions you haven't sent to a list already, have you seen askubuntu.com ? it's a great resource for asking and finding answered questions
<kaushal> ok
<mungojerry> tried playing the game portal the other day..i must be getting old but i haven't thought about playing it again since the inital 30 mins i spent on it
<popey> I've played it through a couple of times
<screen-x> mungojerry: the cake is a lie
<mungojerry> screen-x: huh?
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.slashgear.com/wifi-only-motorola-xoom-pricing-confirmed-01136733/
<BigRedS> screen-x: you don't get that in the first half hour unless you're _really_ quick
<popey> 450 quid for a wifi only android tablet?
<screen-x> mungojerry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal_(video_game)#Plot
<MartijnVdS> popey: Â£60 cheaper than a wifi-only ipad with the same amount of storage
<popey> and "better" spec :)
<popey> flash (apparently I need this)
<popey> [I do not]
<MartijnVdS> it won't start out with flash
<popey> 3d graphics, camera, bigger screen.
<mungojerry> screen-x: i didn't get past the initial training..i got a bit bored..does it get better after that?
<MartijnVdS> adobe are still brea^Hmaking it work
<popey> stereo speakers
<Myrtti> meep
 * MartijnVdS wants Dutch pricing :\
<popey> the ipad is a year old though :)
<popey> I suspect a new one will overtake the xoom very shortly ;)
<screen-x> mungojerry: not really if you aren't intrigued by the initial concept, but I haven't played that much.
<MartijnVdS> popey: at least Apple has competition now ;)
<popey> hehe
<mungojerry> screen-x: the main problem was having to boot into windows on my desktop to play it...not working on my laptop under wine :(
<mungojerry> never got round to finishing HL2 either though...it's a bit like novels and non-fiction books...get about 1/2 way uusually
<HazRPG> Wow, some real classics on Gutenberg.org :D
<HazRPG> this'll keep me occupied for months!
<brobostigon> i would try, principia mathematica,by sir isaac newton, thats if i understood latin.
<danfish> brobostigon: run it through google translate ;)
<brobostigon> danfish: it might take a while, its a big book. :)
<domjohnson> Whats this Partial Upgrade?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I would if I could understand it ^^
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: try this: http://www.archive.org/details/TheVoynichManuscript
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: If you can read it, then I'll give that one a shot... but I highly doubt an undecipherable language is even worth looking into unless you can decipher languages :P
<brobostigon> HazRPG: its about the basic laws of motion  and gravity.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hehe I know ;)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
 * HazRPG likes science :)
 * brobostigon has a specific interest in time dilation.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: awesome :)
<dutchie> brobostigon: not much about time dilation in principia :)
<dutchie> i understand einstein's SR paper from 1905 is surprisingly accessible though
<brobostigon> dutchie: no, einstein did most of the work on it, about bending space time, due to gravity and speed.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> dutchie: not sure about that one, but I did grab a few from here earlier: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search.html/?default_prefix=author_id&sort_order=downloads&query=1630
<mungojerry> reading the communist manifesto on the gutenberg site ..always good for a laugh
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Not sure if its to your taste, but its GeoHot's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUvuaChDEg
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not quite my style, no
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Heard about him taking donations for more lawyers?
<HazRPG> to try and fix the system so that consumers have a right to do with their hardware what they see fit
<directhex> geohot is such a douchebag
<HazRPG> directhex: interesting, why do you think that?
<directhex> HazRPG, compare him rapping badly on youtube to the fail0verflow presentation at CCC
<HazRPG> I guess
 * popey has no idea who geohot is
<popey> I am clearly out of touch with the kids
<MartijnVdS> popey: ask your kids ;)
<exobuzz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz
<screen-x> popey: and you even have an iphone
<popey> the two are orthogonal
<bigcalm> Time on battery: 1d 16h, battery remaining: 33%
<bigcalm> I <3 the internets
<bigcalm> Setting the wifi sleep policy to never seems counter intuative, but looks like 3g is very hungry
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: *#*#4636#*#* -> set to GSM Auto (PRL)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: that makes it only use 3G when there's data traffic (or something), 2G otherwise
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: worked on my N1
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: are you trying out CM7rc1?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> I have 2.3.3 stock
<bigcalm> Aww
<MartijnVdS> â¥ stock firmware
<bigcalm> I <3 messing about ;)
<bigcalm> ddwrt on my router
<HazRPG> bigcalm: I wish I had a router that would let me put that on :(
<Tommeh> They aren't too expensive :)
<DeathSling> Hi all, can anyone help me with ssh auto connecting. I have googled it lots but it would seem I too stupid because I still can't make it work
<DeathSling> I have made the keys with ssh-keygen but where should these go?  It doesn't work if I put them in ~/.ssh
<BigRedS> you'll need one of them on the remote server, too
<BigRedS> did you follow a tutorial?
<BigRedS> In other news, this strikes me as pretty dumb behaviour on ls's part: http://pastebin.com/7WY134by
<DeathSling> i did, but it's not adding up right
<BigRedS> where is the tutorial? It might've missed a step :)
<DeathSling> I've looked at a few
<BigRedS> OK.
<BigRedS> you did an ssh-keygen? then scp'd the .pub file to the remote host and appended it to authorized_keys?
<BigRedS> and then made sure that only you may write to any of the files in ~/.ssh?
<DeathSling> I created the key file (which output in my home directory) and named the file after the host computer, transfered it to other host and I have tried it in both ~/host_vemail_1.pub & ~/.ssh/host_vemail_1.pub       I trust I can name them to whatever I like?
<BigRedS> did you append it to authorized_keys?
<DeathSling> arrhhh   append you say! no I did not.... This is whats wrong isn't it. I thought that file was just for the manual connections
<BigRedS> i.e. 4 through 7 here http://www.laubenheimer.net/ssh-keys.shtml
<BigRedS> ah, no, that's where you dictate whih keys may be used for auth :)
<BigRedS> *which
<DeathSling> BigRedS: I will try that right now.... thanks!
<popey> personally i woudldn't faff like that
<popey> ssh-keygen
<popey> ssh-copy-id <remotehost>
<popey> job done
 * BigRedS notes thsi ssh-copy-id voodoo for next time
 * brobostigon returns
<HazRPG> oh, heh yeah that was something I was learning earlier last week :)
<HazRPG> planning on posting all notes I took down on my blog :)
<HazRPG> possibly making some videos for the podcast if people have read and approve of them :)
<HazRPG> sorry not podcast... the screencast video section of ubuntu-uk
<HazRPG> if that's even right :S
 * HazRPG recalls a bug about the website about not enough videos existing...
<HazRPG> my mistake, it was apparently the ubuntu.com site, but still :)
<popey> screencasts.ubuntu.com ?
<HazRPG> that's the one
<popey> :)
<HazRPG> thinking of contributing stuff to it :)
<HazRPG> since I have indulged into coding for ubuntu or linux yet
<HazRPG> although I know it would be much different from what I know of coding so far anyway
<HazRPG> just have a few more tricks to learn before I can say I'm confident enough to do them though
<HazRPG> popey: like I said, I'll be posting my notes on my blog first so that you guys can at least tell me what I've wrote is right before making some screencasts for it
 * popey set that site up :)
<HazRPG> popey: I know, I saw the details ;)
<popey> heh
<Myrtti> oof, halloumi is salty++
<Myrtti> squeek says my kidneys
<davmor2> Myrtti: you sure that's not AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH! say your kidneys
<bigcalm> Squeeky cheese FTW \o/
<Myrtti> Finnish squeeky cheese is better :-/
<HazRPG> popey: is there a way to get Calibre to open just the ebook (e.g. double-clicking it)
<HazRPG> ?*
<popey> no idea
<HazRPG> noticed it installed LRF Viewer, but that doesn't open up epubs
<brobostigon> i just got me n800 out again, justneed something useful to do with it.
<HazRPG> popey: ooo found it
<HazRPG> ebook-viewer
<HazRPG> and seems passing a file over works perfectly :)
<ging> what happens if you boot from a live cd then take it out burn something to a cd ?
<marxjohnson> you wont be able to unless you've loaded the system in to ram
<marxjohnson> I dont know if Ubuntu does it, but Knoppix has an option at boot to load into ram
<marxjohnson> Aha https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootToRAM
<marxjohnson> oh, that's overly complicated
<shauno> seems out of date too.  it's in casper as of 10.04, just add 'toram' to the boot args (F6 at grub/isolinux/whatever they use now)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Ubuntu UK Podcast Returns for Season 4 - http://popey.com/blog/2011/03/01/ubuntu-uk-podcast-returns-for-season-4/
<ging> might download that to my kindle
<danfish> dutchie: get a haircut ;)
<Myrtti> plargh
<dutchie> danfish: :)
<dutchie> (context: http://twitpic.com/453gxc for others)
<DJones> Haircut, sheep shearer more like :)
<Neoti> hi all ... can anyone tell me how to get the default right hand side things to appear as they where when ubuntu was installed... i have lost all the things on the right hand side of my task bar???
<DJones> !panels | Neoti I think this might be the one to reset your panels
<lubotu3`> Neoti I think this might be the one to reset your panels: To reset the gnome panel to defaults, type this in a !terminal: Â« gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel Â»
<DJones> Assuming you're using Ubuntu with gnome
<Neoti> yes that did it ... now i just needto reset it to how it was 5 mins ago Thanks
<nucc1> there'a a program that disables the touchpd whilst typing, anyone remember its name?
<dmdrummond> nucc1: it's an option in Gnome under Preferences->Mouse->Touchpad
<jacobw> ubuntu netbook?
 * jacobw has scrolled down
<nucc1> dmdrummond, that doesn't seem to be effective on this machine
<nucc1> its an old hp 510
<Azelphur> Is it illegal (blackmail?) to threaten to go public with information about a security company firing Denial service attacks at people if they don't agree to stop?
<Azelphur> I have pretty much all the info on said not so nice company
<Azelphur> I sent them an email but they replied rather rudely indicating that they don't give a crap pretty much
<ikonia> what's going on in the UK today
<DJones> Azelphur: I would say yes, it'd be blackmail. sensible thing to do would be to report them to 1) Police/authorities 2) Their ISP
<DJones> ikonia: Personally, its  been pretty quiet in my part of the UK :)
<Azelphur> indeed, looks like a better idea
<ikonia> DJones: not a bad way to be
<nucc1> ikonia, DJones its practically always pretty quiet in the UK :p
<nucc1> unless the government threatens further cuts
<ikonia> nucc1: I think it can have it's ups and down
<Azelphur> yay, I have a lawyer on my side :P
<danfish> or bansheegate :(
<Azelphur> he says contact their local DA and provide them with all the information
<nucc1> ikonia, i think i'll go out and have a drink. it's been too quiet today. :p
<brobostigon> can someone who is natty with unity test this please, does synaptic put its menu's in the thingie nest to window controls, or where they used to be?
<DJones> ikonia: No doubt how its going in the uk is a lot quieter than it is in #u :)
<DJones> And less stressful
<ikonia> I'm looking for some good popart/popculture type wall paper, hi res, any suggestions on good sites to see, deviantart is a bit empty these days
<dwatkins> ikonia: http://www.wallpapervortex.com/wallpaper-13044_star_wars_storm_trooper_keyboard.html
<tta> what are the parameters of "your freedom" to use a usb modem freely?please
<the_evil_gungur> Hi, I need some help configuring lilo to boot ubuntu, I dont have the livecd (or any cds) on me,
<brobostigon> !lilo
<lubotu3`> lilo is an alternative [Li]nux Boot[Lo]ader. Note: it is recommended that you use GRUB on Ubuntu instead.
<the_evil_gungur> thats cool, im just gonna state my problem, if anyone knows the answer let me know
<brobostigon> i would go with grub. lilo as iunderstand it, is old now, and doesntsupport certainthings. grub2 is now up-to-date, and stable, andhas modern functionality.
<brobostigon> the_evil_gungur: may iaskwhy you choose lilo?
<the_evil_gungur> my ubuntu stuff in lilo.conf  is    image = /vmlinuz root = /dev/sda1  label = ubuntu ; but when try to install lilo it errors : Fatal: open /vmlinuz: No such file or directory  ; which makes sense because its on a different partition, i tried /dev/sda1/vmlinuz but same error, how can i point lilo to my ubuntu partition ?
<the_evil_gungur> brobostigon: no particular reason, its just i only have this one thing to configure and i would like to get ubuntu booted right now,
<brobostigon> iwouldlook in /boot , the kernel images are there.
<Azelphur> anyone know how to debug 100% CPU frozen X? :)
<brobostigon> the_evil_gungur: grub2 is uses as standerd, why didnt you just let uit use the supproted and standerd?
<the_evil_gungur> brobostigon: ok ill try that, although /vmlinuz exists on /dev/sda1 as a symlink to the actuall image
<the_evil_gungur> brobostigon: i did, then i installed another linux which installed lilo and didnt detect my ubuntu
<brobostigon> the_evil_gungur: it will be in the mountpoint that is connected to that device in /dev. not the device in /dev directly.
<brobostigon> for  grub this would be easy, sudo update-grub, and it mostly configures itself.
<the_evil_gungur> brobostigon: > mountpoint that is connected to that device    what you mean? the ubuntu kernel image i want is /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.32-24-generic on partition 1 of /dev/sda
<brobostigon> the_evil_gungur: i am not sure, i dont think i have enough knowlege,
 * the_evil_gungur pats brobostigon its ok. il try installing grub i guess
<dmdrummond> the_evil_gungur: ensure you run lilo after changing lilo.conf
<the_evil_gungur> dmdrummond: right thanks
<tta> what are the parameters of "your freedom" to use a usb modem freely?please
<brobostigon> tta: i  dont see any logic in that question, sorry.
<dmdrummond> tta: What USB modem?
<dmdrummond> the_evil_gungur: Have you sorted it?
<tta> huawei(orange)
<brobostigon> tta: what does lsusb say?
<dmdrummond> tta: 3g?
<tta> what?
 * AlanBell is using a huawei on orange dongle right now
 * AlanBell is on a train
<tta> yes 3g
<brobostigon> inside at terminal, type in lsusb, and press enter.
<dmdrummond> tta: AlanBell seems to be the man to talk to
<AlanBell> Bus 001 Device 005: ID 0af0:6971 Option Globetrotter HSDPA Modem
<AlanBell> ^^ tta you will see a line just like that in lsusb
<AlanBell> on 10.10 I just plug it in and go through the menu selecting UK then Orange Contract
<AlanBell> if a menu does not pop up then in the netwokr manager indicator add a new mobile broadband connection
<tta> AlanBell:uk will work? iam in cameroon
<tta> AlanBell:the bus 001 ... that you gave me where will i see that? pls i am a beginner
<AlanBell> tta ah, well in that case you might need to select cameroon
<tta> where
<AlanBell> if you type lsusb in a terminal you see that
<the_evil_gungur> dmdrummond: hey, well I just configured and installed grub, rebooting...
<tta> noo iam already in lsusb but i dont see that options:(
<AlanBell> type this in a terminal
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<AlanBell> lsusb|pastebinit
<AlanBell> that will give you a URL, paste that here so we can see it
<AlanBell> with the modem plugged in of course
<brobostigon> AlanBell: should we look for tty modem deivces in /dev ?
<AlanBell> brobostigon: no, it will be hso0 or something
<AlanBell> option devices are more like network cards than modems
<AlanBell> err, actually is it option or huawei?
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ah, most 3g usb deivces i have came across, show as tty* in /dev, so this one doesnt?
<tta> yes the modem is plugged it's the one that i am using so to get internet connection
<AlanBell> not sure now
<AlanBell> depensds what it is
<AlanBell> tta err, you are connected to the internet with it?
<AlanBell> lds
<tta> ecxuse me i am francophone i want to perform my english
<AlanBell> what is your question again?
 * AlanBell has little signal
<the_evil_gungur> dmdrummond: I got a black screen after trying to boot ubuntu... does do I need to set any other options for the kernel in menu.conf , like an initrd or something?
<tta> i want to use that modem without pay the credit.is it possible on linux?
<AlanBell> no.
<tta> on windows?
<dmdrummond> tta: so by using it "freely" you mean free as in beer?  As in without payment?
<tta> yes
<the_evil_gungur> can someone help me configure grub to boot ubuntu?
<the_evil_gungur> I have this in menu.conf, in the ubuntu part:  kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/sda1 ro vga=773 initrd=/initrd.img
<the_evil_gungur> could I have a look at someones menu.lst ?
<dmdrummond> tta: I wouldn't have a clue, not really something that would (should) be discussed here
<dmdrummond> the_evil_gungur: what is the other distro you are using? Slackware?  What version of grub have you installed?  What filesystem is /boot on?
<tta> #ubuntu-offtopic...
<mgdm> tta: that subject is off topic for this entire network.
<tta> mailto:aubrymla@gmail.com...
<AlanBell> tta stop it
<tta> i am sorry i just wanted a help:(
<mgdm> tta: As I said, you will not get it on this network
<dmdrummond> the_evil_gungur: what is the other distro you are using? Slackware?  What version of grub have you installed?  What filesystem is /boot on?
<the_evil_gungur> dmdrummond: yes, version 0.97, filesystem is ext4
<dmdrummond> the_evil_gungur: Grub 0.97 afaik doesn't support booting from ext4
<the_evil_gungur> dmdrummond: it boots slackware fine, which is also on ext4
<the_evil_gungur> dmdrummond: brb, rebooting
<ali1234> nobody told him to set up his own picocell? i am disappoint
<mgdm> ali1234: No. Because that would still be off topic for the network. ;)
<ali1234> http://openbts.sourceforge.net/ is off topic?
<mgdm> No, but that's not what he was meaning
<ali1234> i know but technically it does what he asked for
<ali1234> or it could
<mgdm> if you're being extremely obtuse
<ali1234> yes :)
<exobuzz> so i missed the live ubuntu uk broadcast ? shit
<exobuzz> podcast i mean
<dmdrummond> ali1234: he clearly wanted free access to the Orange network
<exobuzz> new site looks nice
<andylockran> howdy all
<the_evil_gungur> dmdrummond: please help
<dmdrummond> are you sure your slackware is ext4?
<the_evil_gungur> dmdrummond: yeah,
<dmdrummond> it's been a while since I used slackware.  Does it set up a seperate /boot partition?
<dmdrummond> *separate
<nucc1> i'm trying to remember a business i heard of recently that will ship gizmos from the US to a UK address for a fee...
<nucc1> i saw it on Ars Technica
<the_evil_gungur> dmdrummond: sorry, internet connection dropped,
<the_evil_gungur> my menu.lst looks like this atm
<the_evil_gungur> title Ubuntu on (/dev/sda1);  root (hd0,0);  kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.32-24-generic root=/dev/sda1 ro vga=773
<the_evil_gungur> initrd (hd0,0)/boot/initrd.img-2.6.32-24-generic
<the_evil_gungur> dmdrummond: ?
<dmdrummond> recent ubuntu versions use Grub 2, Grub 0.97 was released in 2005.  Ext4 was introduced to the kernel in 2006.  Hence my thinking Grub 0.97 doesn't support it.
<brobostigon> !grub2
<lubotu3`> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
<dmdrummond> !ext4
<the_evil_gungur> dmdrummond: i formatted my slack partition as ext4, and it says ext4 in fstab
<dmdrummond> the_evil_gungur: the format of the config files changed drastically from grub 1 to grub 2, so mine won't help.
<dmdrummond> the_evil_gungur: do you have a livecd?  it should be able to boot the distro on the hard disk, then run grub-install to get ubuntu's grub 2 installed
<the_evil_gungur> dmdrummond: no,  i dont have any cds either, anyway i cba anymore,
<dmdrummond> ah well.  Moral of the story is never install lilo. :-)
<hamitron> what is wrong with lilo? ;/
<ali1234> what *isn't* wrong with lilo?
<shauno> I always had a softspot for using a braindead mbr.  initrd's ruined that tho
<hamitron> lilo sounds like fifo, grub sounds like a worm... I know which I would rather have
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> I always prefered the look of lilo too
<hamitron> grub still confuses me too
<hamitron> talking of which...
<nucc1> grub sounds like food
<hamitron> how are you suppose to move the root partition, officially
<hamitron> supposed*
<hamitron> last time I moved the files, updated fstab, and grub
<hamitron> then a kernel update screwed it
<hamitron> hmm, need food, brb :)
<brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
<shauno> here's an odd one.  for ports (eg, poewrpc), where is apt meant to be pointed?  I can find the release/isos, but ppc packages don't show up in pool
<shauno> ah nm, founds ports.u.c, it's just not on my local mirror
<the_evil_gungur> !grub2
<lubotu3`> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
<the_evil_gungur> could someone help me set up grub2 from command line?
<andylockran> howdy all
 * popey hugs dsas
<dsas> :)
<BigRedS> the_evil_gungur: do you have any specific questions?
<the_evil_gungur> BigRedS: well, no, but im not sure what to do,  ive read through the grub docs,
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-02
<andylockran> Guys - who's the ubuntu laptop reseller in the UK ?
<andylockran> and 2)  Can I get ubuntu on a macbook pro?
<mgdm> popey has Ubuntu on a MacBook, might not be a Pro
<andylockran> ok, I'll ping him in the morning.
<shauno> there's a whole chunk of good reading too, at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro
<andylockran> thanks
<shauno> (8,1 is the current model, and mostly undocumented thanks to being a week old.  it gets wildly more successful as you go back a model or two tho)
<andylockran> looks a little complicated.  Are there many OSS programs that don't compile on the OSX (me is thinking, eclipse, vim, subclipse, perl, python, android developer tools)
<mgdm> andylockran: I use all of those almost every week, if not day
<shauno> I've struggled with larger packages (trying to build evolution was a week of misery).  but most of those aren't a problem
<andylockran> Yeah, that's more or less my toolkit
<andylockran> thunderbird for email
<andylockran> but if eclipse compiles, i'm guessing I shouldn't have problems with eclipse extensions?
<andylockran> ah, and Open/LibreOfice
<andylockran> yeah, that looks schweet then
<andylockran> right - so tomorrow I walk into the office and suggest they buy me a macbook pro
<andylockran> negiotiation will last 30 minutes before I get told no I'm guessing.
<andylockran> but hey ho.. worth a go :0
<shauno> subclipse I've never heard of.  the rest of those are good to go tho.  eclipse & LO have osx builds available, python/perl/vim/etc are installed out of the box
<andylockran> well here hoping it goes well tomorrow
<andylockran> and now I shall sleep.. night all!
<dsas> heh http://www.ndftz.com/nickelanddime.png
<ali1234> lolz
<shauno> like the fineprint
<ali1234> what does "subjective transparency" mean?
<ali1234> also, what if banshee devs put up a ppa restoring the referal link? what then?
<shauno> war, I guess.
<ali1234> i mean, then i could pick and choose
<ali1234> not that i buy mp3s, or anything from amazon ever again
<hamitron> again? ;/
<ali1234> yeah i cancelled my amazon account at the same time i cancelled my paypal account
<dsas> ali1234, then I guess you could install that and use that instead.
<HazRPG> hi
<HazRPG> have I missed much today?
<NateWiebe> gord: just curious in terms of the unity dash, is scrolling with the scroll wheel considered a bug or a wishlist item? (bug #721447)
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 721447 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unable to scroll in Applications/Files and Folders Place using mouse wheel" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/721447
<ball> What's the usual mobile broadband standard in the UK these days?  UMTS?  LTE?
<MartijnVdS> UMTS + HSPA
<MartijnVdS> (HSDPA/HSUPA)
 * ball goes to look up HSPA
<MartijnVdS> with fallback to GPRS/EDGE (same as everywhere in Europe really ;))
<MartijnVdS> ball: HSPA is an extension to the UMTS protocol that allows for more speed
 * ball ponders
<ball> Does UMTS cost more than EDGE, or is it just a case of 'pay for data and you get what you can'?
<MartijnVdS> I'm not in the UK, but here in the Netherlands all "data plans" are for a given number of megabytes, regardless of tech used
<MartijnVdS> and you get EDGE if you go outside of UMTS coverage
<MartijnVdS> (or GPRS if you're not on Voda)
<ball> MartijnVdS: No "unlimited" data plans?
<MartijnVdS> ball: they call them unlimited, but they never really are
<ball> MartijnVdS: soft or hard cap?  Do they cut you off or just throttle you back?
<MartijnVdS> where I work, we throttle people back, and only cut them off if they're repeat "offenders"
<MartijnVdS> you know.. I think most operators do that for "unlimited" plans
<ball> MartijnVdS: Is that based purely on how much data they're throwing around, or is the decision influenced by the /type/ of data?
<MartijnVdS> which is why they aren't offering too many of those anymore (get our 500MB plan, so we can charge you for every MB more)
<MartijnVdS> where I work it's amount
<MartijnVdS> other operators -> not transparent
 * ball nods
<MartijnVdS> supposedly only the amount, but they have weird rules like "you can't connect your laptop" or "no VOIP"
<ball> Data is one of the few things that makes me interested in sticking with the operator I have now.
<MartijnVdS> I have an old-style "unlimited for â¬7,50/month" plan that I like :)
<ball> ...that and the fact I can use a WiFi LAN as though it were a tower.
<MartijnVdS> how do you do that then?
<ball> MartijnVdS: Only works with certain handsets (primarily Nokia) but you tell the phone about a wireless LAN (SSID, encryption and password) and the phone magically detects and uses it whenever you're within range.
<MartijnVdS> ah SIP
<MartijnVdS> I can use that.. but it uses a different number
<MartijnVdS> which is annoying :)
<ball> It uses SIP?
<MartijnVdS> well.. that's the only "wifi calling" option my phones have offered
<ball> MartijnVdS: This works with my existing number and is seamless.
<ball> MartijnVdS: incomming calls come through the WiFi too.
<ball> SMS and "mobile Web"
<mindlore> Does anyone know about Western Digital Caviar Green hard drives disappearing from the file system under linux?
<MartijnVdS> and this works on any LAN?
<MartijnVdS> mindlore: drives disappearing usually means they're flaking out (check the kernel log in /var/log/kern.log)
<ball> MartijnVdS: Yes.
<ball> MartijnVdS: ...seems to.
<MartijnVdS> ball: then it has to be SIP or some related protocol
<MartijnVdS> and it means our (EU) operators suck :)
<ball> What kind of UMTS/EDGE adaptor works with Ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> ball: Lots.. some might need more tweaking than others thoguh
<MartijnVdS> though*
<AlanBell> morning all
<mindlore> MartijnVdS, I would do, but I reinstalled. Noted for next time. It passes a full SMART test though.
<MartijnVdS> \o AlanBell
<MartijnVdS> mindlore: SMART is only an indication, not 100% proof :)
<MartijnVdS> ball: My laptop's built-in Gobi 2000 was fiddly to get to work, but now it's fine
<ball> I'm considering mobile broadband if my cable company can't get its act together.
<MartijnVdS> ball: most USB sticks work fine (though they might need a poke with usb_modeswitch to switch them from "driver installer fake-CD-ROM"-mode to "modem mode"
<MartijnVdS> ball: (this is all automatic if you have the right packages installed, of course)
<mindlore> MartijnVdS, Ok, thanks. The reason I ask about the WDC Green drives in particular was because I read something about them going into a low power sleep mode and not waking up in time, causing a the sata driver to assume the drive was no longer there. Any ideas about that?
<ball> MartijnVdS: I may try it with some of the local mobile broadband adaptors if I can borrow some at work.
<MartijnVdS> mindlore: no idea, don't have a drive like that so never had the problem
<MartijnVdS> ball: network-manager will pop up asking to configure it, it's really neat :)
<mindlore> MartijnVdS, Ok. Thank you. If it is the drive flaking out, what do I look for in the kernel log?
<ball> I'll ask the mobile phone chaps whether I can borrow one during lunch break.
<ball> If I can make it work with the laptop, I may be able to get by with the old desktop.
<MartijnVdS> mindlore: messages about ATA/SATA :) it'll be obvious
<MartijnVdS> ball: "Ye Olde Desktoppe"
<mindlore> MartijnVdS, Ok, thanks. I hoped it would be. :)
<ball> I think I need to sleep on it.
<ball> Goodnight everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o ball
<ball> MartijnVdS: Thanks for the information, it was very helpful.
<mindlore> I'm looking in the kernel log now, and I've got some ATA bus errors. Is that normal/acceptable?
<MartijnVdS> mindlore: not really
<mindlore> All the errors are in relation to the WDC Green drive. Does it look like I need to return that drive?
<mindlore> Actually, my DVD is getting them too. Unless I'm reading it wrong.
<MartijnVdS> might be your controller flaking out then
<MartijnVdS> or just a few loose cables
<mindlore> Just to be clear: The controller on the mobo?
<mindlore> Ah. Optimism. :)
<MartijnVdS> mindlore: check the cables and PSU first -- the PSU might also providing a voltage that's too low
<MartijnVdS> and yes, the controller is part of the mono
<MartijnVdS> mobo
<mindlore> What would I do if the voltage is too low?
<MartijnVdS> get a new PSU
<mindlore> Oh. :(
<MartijnVdS> but it might be hard to figure out if this is the case (unless you're good with wires and a multimeter)
<mindlore> It's been a while since I've used one of those. ;)
<mindlore> My other HDD doesn't get any errors though. A good sign?
<mindlore> For the controller, I mean?
<MartijnVdS> could be
<MartijnVdS> I'd start with checking the connections then :)
<mindlore> Right, so: Check connections, check voltage, or failing those return mobo. Sound about right?
<MartijnVdS> check if your current "root" disk fails on those ports as well
<AlanBell> or a spare sacrificial disk
<mindlore> By simply swapping the cables over?
<MartijnVdS> or that
<AlanBell> don't write to your currently working root disk on a suspected dodgy controller
<mindlore> AlanBell, wise words. Ok, thanks.
<mindlore> Right, you've been a big help. Thank you. I'll get to those things later today. Now though, I've got to go, the kids are up and demanding breakfast. ;)
<initself> friends, romans, countryman
<initself> (wait, i'm american!)
<DJones> Morning all
<Myrtti> s/man/men/
<initself> sweetbear: Flying, beaches, bridges.
<initself> that's what they are into in the uk
<Myrtti> hm.
<jpds> initself: OK, you're American, we've done waiting, continue.
<sweetbear> initself: they're already making fun of you...
<initself> you too, sweetheart!
<initself> these's brits think their so cheeky
<AlanBell> morning all
<initself> they're
<initself> GOOD EVENING, AlanBell!
<initself> The party is just getting started over here!
<sweetbear> initself: you mean morning has just started
<initself> PARTY BABY
<jpds> CAPS LOCK.
<initself> you can't celebrate without CAPS LOCK.
<sweetbear> jpds: you're funny
<jpds> sweetbear: Thank you.
<Myrtti> ^____o
<initself> so, dude, the uk is just hacking hardcore on ubuntu tonight, eh?
<initself> todya
<initself> whatever, time is so relative
<Myrtti> I wonder, does linode supply each vps with their own ip
<Myrtti> or is there some bundling going on
<AlanBell> Myrtti: it is ok, sweetbear and initself are sat next to each other
<initself> I believe yes is the answer to that.
<AlanBell> put the EMP cannon down
<Myrtti> AlanBell: I'll get me popcorn
 * initself hopes that our baby does not wake.
 * AlanBell is off out to talk open source to a customer
<AlanBell> laters all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<sweetbear> initself: if the baby is up it's your turn to change her
<jpds> Myrtti: The former.
<hoover_> mornin
<Myrtti> http://www.good.is/post/office-parks-are-worse-than-suburban-sprawl/
<MooDoo> hello all
<diplo> Morning
<wintellect> Mornin all
<kazade> morning
<Mez> Winful speed test :D
<Mez> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1180789498.png
<screen-x> morning :)
<daubers> o/
<screen-x> hi daubers :)
<screen-x> Getting any less manic for you?
<screen-x> this morning's reading... http://i.imgur.com/7fdzK.jpg
<popey> morning all!
<MooDoo> morning alan
<screen-x> \o popey
<screen-x> how was uupc live?
<popey> screen-x: it was great fun to make
<popey> no idea what it was like to listen to :D
<JamesTait> Good morning, everyone. :)
<screen-x> popey: glad it was fun :)
<screen-x> popey: I'm looking forward to listening to it later...
<screen-x> I wonder which will be released first, the ipad or S04E01..
<screen-x> morning JamesTait :)
 * screen-x opens lunch, then puts it away again, its only 10:05
<kazade> popey, it sounded really good, almost too good. I reckon it was pre-recorded and the liveness was all an elaborate scam ;)
<bigcalm> Postie didn't deliver my graze box today :'(
<Pendulum> bigcalm: :(
 * bigcalm wants his nibbles
<bigcalm> Hi Pendulum :)
<Pendulum> hi bigcalm
<bigcalm> I forget that you live in a large country
<Pendulum> ?
<bigcalm> In the UK 1 maybe 2 lorries would be all it takes to deliver a package
<Pendulum> heh
<bigcalm> Well, it's on its way to CT now
<Pendulum> actually, it apparently is at the other end of CT now. But that still means it probably won't be here until tomorrow (because it's going to get sorted at least once more)
<bigcalm> Indeed
<popey> kazade: haha!
<bigcalm> Pendulum: I'm trying to work out what the shipping cost might be from there to here. I must be doing something wrong as UPS is saying over 100USD
<hoover_> hey biggie
<bigcalm> Hi hoover_
<Pendulum> bigcalm: I'll probably express mail it so it'll be somewhere around $50 US (if I"m calculating correctly, I had to guess at box dimensions so it might be cheaper)
<bigcalm> Ok, thanks :)
<bigcalm> Do you need to wrap it in birthday wrapping paper to make it look like a gift? ;)
<Pendulum> nope :)
<mungojerry> morning..any docky users in here?
<bigcalm> o.O
<mungojerry> ^_^
<popey> o_O
<dwatkins> hi folks
<hoover> hi
<dwatkins> if anyone near Maidenhead is looking for a linux sysadmin position, feel free to message me, as a friend of mine is looking for someone with at least 2 years experience
<MooDoo> o/ yay
<Tommeh> Maidenhead ayy? BlueSquare?
<Tommeh> Slash poundhost/rapidswitch
<dwatkins> Thrust VPS, Tommeh.
<dwatkins> They used to use bluesquare, though.
<Tommeh> Ahh
<Tommeh> dwatkins: do they co-lo elsewhere now?
<dwatkins> Tommeh: I'm not sure, have asked the question.
<dwatkins> Tommeh: totally separate company
<Tommeh> I realise Bluesquare != Thrust VPS
<Tommeh> Or do you mean they co-lo with a totally separate facility now?
<Tommeh> Though on their website it does say they have access to five separate facilities..
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> dwatkins: this one? - http://www.thrustvps.com/blog/
<HazRPG> morning
<MooDoo> davmor2: HazRPG morning
<dwatkins> yeah MooDoo
<HazRPG> morning MooDoo dude :)
<dwatkins> Tommeh: I don't know, I can ask.
<davmor2> morning MooDoo I thought you were on lates
<MooDoo> davmor2: got out of it, swapped shifts, working the weekends for the next two weeks now
<Tommeh> dwatkins: I wouldn't worry :)
<Tommeh> I'm just nosey
<MooDoo> Any one near Hereford?
<davmor2> MooDoo: and that's better how?
<MooDoo> davmor2: finish at 5:30 as apposed to midnight
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's easier on the wife :)
<screen-x> MooDoo: depends what you mean by near, I'm about an hour away from Hereford.
<MooDoo> screen-x: oh i was just thinking about an opensource event that's happening in march
<screen-x> What sort of event?
<screen-x> Some sort of rebel oggcamp offshoot?
<MooDoo> http://www.herefordshire.lug.org.uk/node/63
 * screen-x reads
<screen-x> I'm in chichester that day, otherwise could have popped in..
 * bigcalm spies Drupal and runs away screaming
<screen-x> bigcalm: a definate case of defaultthemeitus
<Myrtti> quick question
<bigcalm> Shoot
<screen-x> Myrtti: too slow
<Myrtti> what package should I install to enable British English spellcheck in OO.o?
<bigcalm> Pass
<bigcalm> Too cold, going to get the fan heater
<bigcalm> Brrrr
<screen-x> openoffice.org-l10n-en-gb at a guess
<Myrtti> doh
 * Myrtti facepalms
<screen-x> Myrtti: I haven't confirmed that that contains spelling dictionaries.. just looked likely
<Myrtti> well, it's a lot better than the ukrainian packages I looked at
<screen-x> haha
<bigcalm> Ehe
<bigcalm> Hehe
<Myrtti> yes, I need more coffee
 * bigcalm hugs his fresh cupa of tea
<MooDoo> hmmm tea
<HazRPG> has just found GroundControl
<HazRPG> seems pretty snazzy!
<bigcalm> Major Tom?
<directhex> HazRPG, ?
<HazRPG> directhex: As it says in the description "launchpad for your desktop"
<dutchie> well, launchpad for nautilus
<Baikonur> my desktop is going to stay firmly on the floor
<HazRPG> basically a gui version of bzr and launchpad for nautilus...
<HazRPG> dutchie: exactly :)
 * MartijnVdS wants a Xoom :(
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: What's a Xoom?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Tablet, Motorola, Android (Gingerbread)
<HazRPG> oh was the the tablet shown at ICS?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I think so, yes
<Ng> it's the one where you buy it and later send it back to motorola for them to enable all the features they promised ;)
<MartijnVdS> Ng: only in the US (LTE).. we get 3G
<MartijnVdS> but I want the wifi-only model.. 3G only costs a lot of money
<Ng> ah so then the future updates to enable all of the promised features can just be applied at home!
<MartijnVdS> yes :)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: Honeycomb!
<MartijnVdS> http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Xoom-Teardown/4989
 * Ng can't help but wonder if all the "err, we'll enable that later" stuff is them desparately rushing to have it in stores before ipad2 is announced today ;)
<MartijnVdS> Ng: probably, yes
<MartijnVdS> especially in the US
<MartijnVdS> and looking at the leaked ipad 2 specs: it has (almost) the same CPU as the Xoom
<MartijnVdS> so it's in the same "class"
<gord> they are using tegra?
<DJones> gord: Just at the point reading so Nvidia Tegra T2 dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 CPU and ultra-low power GeForce GPU.
<gord> no i mean the ipad2
<DJones> ah
<gord> if it ain't using tegra, it ain't in the same class
<Ng> gord: tegra for ipad2 is unlikely, but unknown
<gord> tegra gpus are amazing
<directhex> apple have their own arm license
<directhex> they won't use tegra
<Ng> SGX543 seems to be the leading contender in the rumours
<gord> tegra cpus are pretty great too thought, really impressed with the speed on them
<Ng> these things are all much of a muchness, and it's not the detailed technical specs that sell them to people
<gord> sure, but its interesting to us nerds :)
<Ng> hehe
<Ng> hopefully enough UX love will go into android and webOS that they can properly compete as tablets and maybe even drive some innovation of their own
<Ng> and unity, obviously :)
<gord> i have absolutely zero interest in webOS, i don't think google does even... but android honeycomb looks nice
<gord> the past month or so, the quality of android apps has gone through the roof too
<gord> still not sold on getting an android tablet before there is a nexus-tablet or something though
<Ng> apart from the rootkit ones ;)
<gord> rootkits are a good thing! it means your platform is popular! or.. something
<Ng> hehe
<directhex> i'm not sold on android, full stop
<directhex> i think it has a clear future, i just don't think it's very good
<daftykins> bleh, annoying when highlights are beyond your scrollback
<daftykins> anywho kernel updates ;x
<AlanBell> methinks the domain squatters got in quicker than William did http://www.officialroyalwedding2011.org
<gord> i'm pretty sure they prolly bought up from 1996->2040 ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Powered by Google App Engine, Implemented by Accenture"
<AlanBell> yup, saw that too
<mungojerry> AlanBell: wouldn't it be a .gov.uk?
<AlanBell> gosh no!
<AlanBell> that would be a constitutional crisis
<mungojerry> www.royal.gov.uk
<AlanBell> so it is
<AlanBell> don't think it should be a .org though, but the principals of the TLDs have been abused for years
<mungojerry> i don't believe the link you posted is the real one though?
<AlanBell> it is
<mungojerry> it looks terrible
<AlanBell> http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/mediacentre/pressreleases/launch_of_royal_wedding_website_809770138.html also a .gov.uk
<Myrtti> could be worse
<popey> fun to see what else is hosted on that box.
<AlanBell> mungojerry: stop viewing it in IE6
<popey> http://w3who.net/reverse-ip/94.136.40.82
<gord> hehe
<mungojerry> popey:  nice
<Myrtti> oo, that's a nice site
 * Myrtti bookmarks it with stopforumspam.com
<AlanBell> popey: same as which box?
<popey> the ip that the website was on when i looked
<popey> the royal one
<screen-x> hmm, some unfortunate neighbours in that list
<AlanBell> seems to be elsewhere now
<AlanBell> that will be a reverse proxy or load balancer or something I expect
<AlanBell> http://w3who.net/reverse-ip/89.151.94.50
 * AlanBell wonders which of those websites popey accidentally pinged
<popey> none
<DeathSling> BigRedS: Many thanks for your help with ssh auto authentication, it's all working very nicely now :)
<DeathSling> Anyone here installled ZImbra?  I have version 6 network edition and it's states installng on an ext3 but I'm wondering if thats just some outdated info. Can I use ext4?
<mungojerry> I have a Zimbra server DeathSling
<BigRedS> DeathSling: awesome!
<BigRedS> I occasionaly look after Zimbras, but I don't enjoy it...
<mungojerry> did you know that v7 is out
<DeathSling> yey, ext4 or ext3?
<mungojerry> DeathSling: ext3 since the server is RHEL5.5
 * BigRedS likes ext3 'cause I keep coming across parteds that don't do 4
<DeathSling> i do, but my time is short and I just got a virtual server running with drbd.  Now finally I'm about to install it and along comes version 7....arr poo sticks!
<DeathSling> again, thank you BigRedS
<DeathSling> :)
 * mungojerry likes zimbra
<DeathSling> is it possible then to do a vmbuilder with 10.04 but with ext3, it's default is ext4
<BigRedS> mungojerry: I think my problem is mostly unfamiliarity. And postfix/dovecot does all I need out of a mailserver
<mungojerry> never used vmbuilder
<DeathSling> i quite like vmbuilder, in the very short time I've been using it
<mungojerry> BigRedS: we have it for around 250 users on all sorts of OS, Active Sync works v well too
<mungojerry> unfortunately new IT strategy will prob mean the MS takeover since MS-loving consultants have been brought in :(
<BigRedS> yeah, we've customers doing that sort of thing, does seem very very good at what it does
<mungojerry> what does middle-click on a webpage do in ff4?
<popey> nothing
<mungojerry> does for me :(
<mungojerry> try with multiple tabs open
<popey> i have
<popey> i am on windows
<mungojerry> ok
<mungojerry> it keeps opening the ubuntu vm builder page ...which means if i try to middle-click on a link get open in a new tab and miss, i lose my current page :(
<mungojerry> popey: got it. if your clipboard is a url, then a middleclick on the text area of a page will paste-and-go in the address bar..http://kb.mozillazine.org/Middlemouse.contentLoadURL
<popey> thats been the same for ages iirc
<BigRedS> yeah, it's done that for as long as I can remember
<BigRedS> even if it's not a url it does that
<mungojerry> maybe i'm just getting inaccurate with my clicks, or i never have urls in my clipboard
<daubers> le sigh
<screen-x> !fr |daubers
<lubotu3`> daubers: Ce canal est en anglais uniquement. Si vous avez besoin d'aide ou voulez discuter en francais, merci de rejoindre #ubuntu-fr, ou #ubuntu-qc. Merci.
<daubers> :(
<mungojerry> pourquoi tu es triste?
<mungojerry> pardon
<popey> Bon
<daubers> The worlds all broken. I do find it weird how you the attitude of certain groups in OSS circles can deflect the weird stat of the world
<daubers> s/stat/state
<daubers> All the "Them against us" hooha in OSS recently seems to mirror the sudden breakout of government toppling in parts of the world
<mungojerry> you mean, lots of people want to fight and overthrow their overlords?
<daubers> It's just sad really
<mungojerry> the internet gives people a voice who normally wouldn't be heard
<daubers> It's not just the internet at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised to hear more people on street corners crying out against something or the other
<mungojerry> like that guy who made the boycottnovell site..we spent his entire time trolling digg and blogs to create a louder noise than he should normally be able to make
<AlanBell> and the boycott-boycottnovell counter trol
<screen-x> if only all trolls were equal and opposite and dissapeared upon collision
<mungojerry> daubers: call me strange but twitter contributes to a lot of it
<daubers> Then we'd need to build an LTC, and no-one has that kind of money
<daubers> mungojerry: I'm not sure that's it really. It depends what channels you listen too (i.e. tv, radio newspapers and so on
<mungojerry> 2010 was the year of the orchestrated twitter campaign against anything you don't like, whether it's catlady, tmobile data AUP, etc
<daubers> )
<mungojerry> thanks for the )
<popey> (
<mungojerry> )
<popey> {
<popey> ({[{[{{((([{{
<popey> :)
<shauno> pretty sure that's going to have to be a :}
<popey> nice goatee
<mungojerry> i don't mind { because it makes me think of a funny moustache :-{|
<daubers> â
<AlanBell> heh, popey removed the ( from the topic
<mungojerry> my office is getting refurb'd at the mo and there's one walltile missing from an otherwise complete jigsaw...it pains me to see it
<mungojerry> there is a general disrespect for authority in the world
<mungojerry> however it's true to say that sometimes the overlords make stupid decisions
<AlanBell> respect mah authoritah
<mungojerry> the students thought they would gain something by rioting and generally being jerks
<mungojerry> alongside peaceful protesters as well who still expected to get their own way
<mungojerry> mick jagger said - you can't always get what you want....
<daubers> The student protest fiasco just helped re-enforce a negative stereotype
<mungojerry> true
<screen-x> daubers: you sound pretty forlorn, its going to be ok, the worst that can happen is death.
<daubers> screen-x: Meh. Everythings just stupid at the moment really. Eventually the level of idiocy in the world will be so big it will gravitate in on itself and implode
<Myrtti> that sounds like something I have said
<DeathSling> BigRedS: Regarding Zimbra, what do you mean by 'parteds' when you say "coming across parteds that don't do 4"  ?
<DeathSling> do you mean partition editors
<screen-x> !info parted
<lubotu3`> parted (source: parted): The GNU Parted disk partition resizing program. In component main, is standard. Version 2.3-2ubuntu2 (maverick), package size 72 kB, installed size 196 kB
 * daubers may not be getting enough vitamin d recently
<screen-x> daubers: You can dilute the idocy, in your corner of the world :)
<BigRedS> DeathSling: ah, I didn't mean with zimbra. Just that the first few times I tried ext4 it was on systems that would install to it, but then couldn't edit it
 * MooDoo looks forward to implosion
<BigRedS> which was rather irritating
<screen-x> MooDoo: going to watch from TRATEOTU?
<daubers> screen-x: Tahat tends to end with a prison sentence
<screen-x> daubers: nah, just being should help
<MooDoo> screen-x: if they do a good pan galactic gargle blaster not one of the cheap rip offs
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: one with real Santraginus Vian water?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: and Arcturan Mega-gin
<MooDoo> yup that's the one
<daubers> screen-x: Until I can sort my lcak of concentration, I'm part of the issue at the moment
<DeathSling> BigRedS: again, thank you   :)
<screen-x>  /kick daubers
<screen-x> that should help ;-)
<BigRedS> DeathSling: no problems! I'm always happy to complain about a lack of tools :)
<Romeo_> Hi all need some quick help, im not sure what ive done but when i have something open lets say firefox, once i minimize it i cant see it on my taskbar
<Romeo_> #ubuntu
<BigRedS> Romeo_: you might've removed the taskbar from the panel?
<Romeo_> the taskbar is there
<Romeo_> i did remove it but readded it
<BigRedS> ooh
<Romeo_> so now i have a solid taskbar the recycle bin on it is gone and also when i minimize anything i dont see it :/
<BigRedS> Ah, I've no idea, then. Hmmm
<Romeo_> its happened to me loads of times but never asked for help
<DJones> Romeo_: You could try resetting your panels
<DJones> !panels
<lubotu3`> To reset the gnome panel to defaults, type this in a !terminal: Â« gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel Â»
<Romeo_> sorted, thanx!
<seanh_> Hey, I installed Ubuntu (using a normal ubuntu install CD) onto a USB drive. Now I've booted the USB on a computer, and am trying to use it to install Ubuntu on the computer
<seanh_> It did not have the install ubuntu menu item like installer CDs/USBs have, so I installed the ubiquity package and that got me the menu item
<seanh_> But when I run the installer, it crashes after partitioning and before copying any files
<seanh_> Anyone know why this doesn't work?
<shauno> oh yuck.  python doesn't have switch/case ?
<kazade> shauno, nope, if/elif/elif/elif/else
<BigRedS> and I thought perl was bad not getting it until 5.10...
<kazade> There are 3 things that annoy me about Python syntax. That's one, the other two are "self" and not being able to enforce a method's return type
<ali1234> you could make your own switch with a dict and function pointers
<HazRPG> ha this is really bugging the living crap out of me!
<directhex> shauno, see, python sucks!
<HazRPG> directhex: :o
<HazRPG> I'm trying to make a function to grab every possible deal combination possible for days of stay
<HazRPG> and I just can't get my head around it
<gord> why can't you just use if's?
<gord> if you were going to use a switch that is
<shauno> I wouldn't go that far, but I am failing to see the appeal so far
<HazRPG> shauno: with python?
<shauno> yeah
<HazRPG> shauno: Blender vs 3D studio max
<HazRPG> Blender = 8 MB, 3D studio max > 5000 MB
<HazRPG> oh wait, I think blender is 15MB now cos of a whole bunch of new stuff
<shauno> I don't like depreciating old stuff the moment there's a replacement for it.  makes for an iffy transition
<HazRPG> shauno: python helps make applications run smoother too at times
<HazRPG> shauno: how so?
<shauno> optparse vs argparse
<HazRPG> ah
<shauno> one machine (2.7) tells me optparse is depreciated, the other machine (2.6) doesn't have argparse
<HazRPG> surely if you've compiled the code, it should still run on either though?
<andylockran> wahey :)
<shauno> dunno, I ripped that bit out and hardcoded what I needed for now :)
<HazRPG> brb going to restart X
<ali1234> http://pastebin.com/TZ2LdK19
<ali1234> just seen on pastebin.com domain reports: http://youlearntwitface.com/
<ali1234> can't tell if parody...
<DJones> Sounds like a parody, plus with the "sold out" sign at the bottom would suggest it was
<ali1234> looks more like a scam to me
<AlanBell> looks real to me
<ali1234> some of the registration links still go to an online payment company... which 404s
<shauno> I picked the most unlikely looking face out of the list of presenters, googled the name and found it convincing :(
<ali1234> yeah but notice the disclaimer: "we reserve the right to substitute any presenters, for any reason"
<AlanBell> Thomas Power is quite well known and the bio is right
<AlanBell> standard disclaimer
<shauno> googled Dave Crane because he looked cool.  turns out he's as real as '"life designers" get
<ali1234> http://www.youlearntwitface.com/combo.html "oh actually, we're not sold out, and tickets are only $97 now"
<AlanBell> it isn't an actual scam
<ali1234> and link to diferent payment company
<AlanBell> I see no value in it whatsoever
<ali1234> um yeah, if you turn up there will probably be something there
<ali1234> incidentally, looks like this link works - you can still buy tickets for the event that was in 2010
<AlanBell> yup, bunch of business types raving about how SEO helped their business which is totally different to the businesses of the audience
 * Daviey will buy lots and sell them for PROFIT!
<ali1234> it will probably just be that guy and 12 of his mates you've never heard of, talking about how you can make loads of money running fake conferences :)
<danfish> afternoon
<danfish> I actually said 'lol' in a real conversation today. Am i beyond saving?
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, something like that. Wouldn't be surprised if there is some discussion of multi-level-marketing and neuro linguistic programming in there too
<Hazmaster> danfish: heh, i've let it slip a few times too :/
<AlanBell> danfish: lol
<Daviey> danfish, did you say L-O-L or loal?
<danfish> AlanBell: :P
<jpds> Daviey: Yes, I'd imagine.
<danfish> Daviey: loal
<Daviey> jpds, funny guy! :)
<danfish> I think we need to set up the ubuntu equivalent of the roman catholic confessional, where all your online sins can be absolved ;)
<Daviey> jpds, it was a XOR question :)
<jpds> Daviey: You didn't specify that!
 * Daviey makes a point of saying xor when he means or :)
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> ali1234: Hmm, seems some programmers still use even more wonderful ways to get screensize for flash
<HazRPG> the embedded version of youtube seems to produce random results
<popey> 17:30:35 < danfish> I actually said 'lol' in a real conversation today. Am i beyond saving?
<popey> I have said "slash me is hungry" before now :S
<HazRPG> ali1234: ah no wait, I think chrome updated...
 * HazRPG goes to check the google-chrome bash script
<HazRPG> ali1234: ah yes, it seems it has replaced the bash script
<HazRPG> cheeky
<danfish> popey: hah, so it's not just me - there is hope after all :)
<AlanBell> danfish: or you are both beyond saving
<HazRPG> danfish: I've used "tl;dr" to stop someone giving me way too much info before
<gord>  aa
<popey>  Bug 646669
<gord> cat got on keyboard...
<popey> here we go again
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 646669 in unity (Ubuntu) "Trash label mismatch Nautilus" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/646669
<dutchie> oh great
<danfish> AlanBell: at least I'll have some company in the asylum ;)
<danfish> yikes - that bug again :(
<gord> popey, maybe fix the en_gb translation to replace wastebin with rubbish bin?
<gord> i don't actually know how the launchpad translation stuff works
<popey> ditto
<AlanBell> I like that character in HHGTTG who declared his house to be the outside of the asylum
 * danfish had to google HHGTTG
<jpds> danfish: ...
 * AlanBell takes danfish's geek badge away
<danfish> waaaah!
<Cepheus> AlanBell: The bloke who decorated his house inside out?
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_characters_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#Wonko_the_Sane
<Cepheus> yeah, couldn't remember his name
<Cepheus> I didn't read So Long that many times
<AlanBell> it is good that we have wikipedia as our global curator of important information such as that
<popey> i have a ripped 5 pound note
<popey> i need sellotape
<Cepheus> I like to think of it as a rough guide to global knowledge
<danfish> Sanity is a sliding scale and I'm sliding off the bottom ;)
<danfish> popey: spellotape is better
<HazRPG> popey: ooo the new podcast site is sexy!
<Azelphur> I came up with an awesome (D)DoS prevention tactic, http://game.azelphur.com/forum/denial-service-hall-shame
<Azelphur> :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wife's PC is getting sick. The mobo and cpu etc. are quite old now. Just spec'd a quick update: mobo, cpu and 4G of RAM: Â£106 inc VAT.
<X3N> people still use PCs?
<AlanBell> they use the iPad2 now
<Azelphur> X3N: I use a PC o.O
<TheOpenSourcerer> I use a PC, a laptop and a phone.
<exobuzz> X3N, instead of ?
<X3N> A good laptop
<TheOpenSourcerer> In fact several laptops. But I like my PC.
<Azelphur> I use a PC, Laptop, Netbook and Phone
<exobuzz> is a laptop not a pc ? oh ok.
<Azelphur> might be selling my netbook and getting a tabletbook soon, then I'll have a tablet too :D
<exobuzz> i upgraded from my old laptop.
<danfish> I haven't read about the ipad2 but even so..meh
<exobuzz> last laptop Â£1400. current pc (including screen - Â£700)
<exobuzz> you have to spend a lot of money on a laptop for decent speed
<gord> my laptop annoys me, all laptops do. you can't get they "just right"
<X3N> but doesn't everyone need a laptop these days anyway?
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's a lot for something that can easily be dropped.
<HazRPG> Azelphur: haha love it, bet the guy feel really stupid now :P
<Azelphur> HazRPG: :D
<exobuzz> X3N, i think the answer is obviously no.
<Azelphur> HazRPG: word on the street is that someone sent them a few thousand boxes and signed them up for a few interesting magazines.
<popey> irres
<popey> bah
<popey> irresponsible really
<popey> and what of the companies whose money is being wasted with these gags?
<Azelphur> *shrug* either that or leave them to roam the internet attacking nonprofits
<exobuzz> Azelphur, what if you make a mistake ? what if his pc is just infected. im not sure what you are doing is a good idea
<HazRPG> Azelphur: xD
<Azelphur> exobuzz: all the information there is confirmed if you notice :)
<Azelphur> popey: I didn't do it, I just posted the information and left people to do what they wanted *shrug*
<HazRPG> Azelphur: See previous (D)DoS attacks I've had on my server/websites, I've gathered all information I could and sent their ISP a nice letter with all information and logs attached for their viewing pleasure :)
<exobuzz> Azelphur, confirmed until you realise you made a mistake perhaps. you dont know that the server owner is the one
<Azelphur> HazRPG: I've done that before, I never even get a reply :(
<exobuzz> it could be hacked
<Azelphur> exobuzz: I sent him emails and got rude replies, it's pretty obvious that it's him.
<exobuzz> in a court of law, i think that would be amusing "evidence"
<exobuzz> rude replies. guilty.
<Azelphur> hehe :p
<exobuzz> why not just email the isp and be done with it
<exobuzz> let them handle it.
<Azelphur> exobuzz: (18:23:56) Azelphur: HazRPG: I've done that before, I never even get a reply :(
<popey> Azelphur: yeah yeah
<HazRPG> Azelphur: I've had several replies in the past, some said they were looking into it, and others capped their internet down until they fixed whatever it was that caused the DoS's
<exobuzz> did you contact their abuse@ mailbox? if you got no reply, did you contact their upstream provider(s) ?
<Azelphur> I even spoke to a lawyer about going to the police and he said there's very little point, at most I could expect to get them a warning but probably nothing, they arn't interested in anything non-damaging
<Azelphur> exobuzz: I contacted the administrative for rtr-online.com
<exobuzz> i dont know, but i dont like this sort of thing. sort of electronic lynch mob.
<Azelphur> and he said "your NEED is not my priority"
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> exobuzz: Also as I say we've got the name of the attacker which is the same lastname as the owner of the website and it's a family business, so it's pretty obvious the attack came from there
<Azelphur> and that probably would stand up in court :p
<HazRPG> Azelphur: emailing the administrator of the site is never really enough, usually best to report to abuse@<host-of-ip>
<Azelphur> HazRPG: I'll do that too, any ideas on what I should send with it?
<HazRPG> Azelphur: like I said, I've had replies from those people a few times, and they've at very least investigated the problem
<HazRPG> Azelphur: Best to send the log section with the DoS attacks
<Azelphur> HazRPG: are you a real business though? I'm just a nonprofit gaming community
<HazRPG> as a minimum
<HazRPG> Azelphur: I'm only 23 dude, it was a non-profit game/mumble service running off it
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> I'll try that too then :)
<HazRPG> wasn't even a logged IP from either source, they were just bombarding my router and web server
<HazRPG> trying to take it down in general
<Azelphur> all I have is a packet dump from wireshark of loads of spam packets to UDP/27015 from their address
<HazRPG> Azelphur: send that through (both plain-text and as a wireshark file), along with the whois info, and the steam account info as proof
<HazRPG> the whois should say where to report the abuse info to
<popey> how long did the attack last?
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> popey: dunno, I had it iptabled in < 60 seconds, I'm getting quite proficient at blocking these idiots
<HazRPG> popey: Mine? They did it every hr for about a week non-stop
<Azelphur> and I have a lot of bandwith so I don't really care about absorbing the traffic
<Azelphur> popey: notice the google links on my post, you can see I'm not the only victim either :)
<HazRPG> popey: I didn't notice it at first because it wasn't a log I checked often, but when people said it was getting slow and sluggish I checked everything
<popey> so this lasted for a few minutes and you spent how long on this ?
<Azelphur> popey: I chose to spend a little time on it because he's attacked so many others
<Azelphur> there's literally pages of diatribe from this guy on google
<gord> huh, this love film streaming on ps3 works pretty well, surprised
<popey> does he run his own server?
<Azelphur> no
<Azelphur> he just goes around attacking other servers near enough for the point of it
<HazRPG> gord: *cringe* that means you've updated your console
<HazRPG> gord: 3.56 apparently has a rootkit installed with it
<Azelphur> we didn't even do anything to provoke an attack, he got angry with some other player on the server and decided that was motivation enough to DoS me
<Azelphur> (I wasn't even present until the DoS started, a player told me about the threats)
<directhex> gord, not interested in lovefilm until they do HD
<Azelphur> so yea, I spent some time on him :)
<gord> HazRPG, yes i did, rootkit is a horrible word to throw around
<gord> HazRPG, i bought a playstation as a gaming console and blu-ray player, its fantastic at both, sony can rootkit it all they want as long as i can do those
<Azelphur> HazRPG: happen to know how to filter a wireshark file so only the relevant stuff is shown?
<gord> directhex, i could never stream hd ;)
<Azelphur> I know how to apply the filter but I don't know how to save the filtered results
<HazRPG> gord: Only stating what I've read from several sources.
<directhex> gord, i have 13 megabit downstream, and am considering bt vision with >30 down
<gord> directhex, thats nice for you. you won't even consider love film for titles that don't have HD versions?
<HazRPG> gord: Ah see I only bought the PS3 because I knew Final Fantasy would be on it (being the idiot I was, I thought they'd only be exclusive like in the past), and the other reason was for having linux on it... but they stripped that away from me :(
<directhex> HazRPG, but ff13 blows
<HazRPG> I now have 20GB missing from my HDD that I just can't plain access
<Azelphur> HazRPG: 39,346 packets, all the same from one IP in 11 seconds :D
<HazRPG> directhex: I liked it, even though it was a bit linear
<gord> huh.. the aspect ratio is all wrong
<HazRPG> Azelphur: ouch lol
<Cepheus> when Sony puts rootkits on people's personal property (see that CD DRM scandal about 6 years ago) that is totally unacceptable
<Azelphur> hehe
<HazRPG> Azelphur: did it cause much hassle to the server?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: so do you know how to save the filtered results?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: being a game server yes, it caused everyone to time oud.
<Azelphur> time out*
<HazRPG> Azelphur: should just be able to click save on it
<Cepheus> the PS3, au contraire, is their proprietary platform. I'm not saying I agree with their actions but they have more of a right to do so than DRM rootkits like XCP and SecuROM
<Azelphur> HazRPG: I do not know why I didn't just try that *facedesk*
<Cepheus> which install (usually silently) on a user's private PC
<HazRPG> Azelphur: file->save as should just do it :)
<Azelphur> indeed
<gord> its not like other console makers don't do the same thing all the time anyway
<HazRPG> Azelphur: iirc you'll get some options to select what it is your actually wanting to save too
<Azelphur> yea, I did
<TheOpenSourcerer> I love this idea: Offsetting your proprietary footprint... http://www.theringtail.co.uk/2010/02/freedom-ubuntu-and-offsetting-your-proprietary-footprint/
<Cepheus> I'm pretty sure that the 360 sends Microsoft hashes of the CD drive firmware to detect unauthorized modification
<HazRPG> Azelphur: export as plain-text too :)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: since they might not have wireshark to open it up with
<Cepheus> In fact, the 360's hypervisor actually does in-place encryption in RAM
<gord> huh restarting the playback fixed the aspect ratio, thats a bit annoying but i can live with that
<gord> it doesn't support the ps3 blu-ray remote very well though, for shame. its the best remote ever!
<Cepheus> I think that next generation, console manafacturers will have realised that they need a professional hardware and software security consultation on their system designs if they want to secure their platforms
<HazRPG> gord: Hmm, I don't think other console makers take the same approach
<gord> HazRPG, the wii goes as far as physically removing content it detects as not supplied by them
<Azelphur> HazRPG: wanna help me write this? http://ietherpad.com/rUWHwH6b2L
<Cepheus> gord: actually, it's not quite that drastic. what they have is basically like looking for files by path and removing them
<Cepheus> though there are per-save integrity checks done on games that have been publicly exploited
<gord> its actually hugely impressive that sony managed to go this long without needed to do this kind of stuff
<Cepheus> not really. It's only due to the removal of Linux, which is the primary motivation of talented hackers
<gord> eh?
<Cepheus> the sort of hackers which have the capability to break open these systems are not motivated by cheating or software piracy. They were perfectly happy with the level of homebrew support provided by the OtherOS function
<gord> yeah, no, i disagree
<Cepheus> the design mistake in the PS3's security system shows that there's a lack of knowledgable security staff in Sony's R&D labs. Especially as the PS3 wasn't the only device affected.
<Cepheus> The security flaw manifested in the same way on the PSP which already has a remarkably poor track record for security
<directhex> some of the ps3 security bugs are *hilarious*
<Cepheus> directhex: The funniest two are the use of the same random number everywhere
<Cepheus> and
<directhex> yeah
<directhex> that one is hilarious
<Cepheus> that their hypervisor (which is a stock one, and not for security) will happily assign you any specified memory chunk you ask for, including those used by the kernel and hypervisor itself
<daubers> Evening
<Azelphur> took down the forum post and sent a mail to their abuse@, giving the system a chance :p
<HazRPG> Cepheus, directhex: Ha yeah, I remember seeing the CCC talk... I giggled myself senseless after watching that.
<HazRPG> gord: Btw, I agree with Cepheus, the reason the PS3 has stood up this long wasn't because the PS3 was impossible to crack, it was because no one really cared to do anything since Linux was supported from the get-go.
<andylockran> wahey, macbook on the way to me I think :)
<HazRPG> gord: Heck, even I attempted to tamper with mine once I'd found out I couldn't get into my linux partition anymore.
<HazRPG> gord: I mainly wanted to get my data off my hard drive, and recover the partition back for usable space to the console.
<HazRPG> Spent countless hours trying to work out how they'd stored the data on the hard drive.
<Cepheus> they could have at least added a facility to recover such partitions
<HazRPG> Although, I'm not really as talented as most of the hackers out there... so I just gave up, wiped it clean a good couple of times (after backing up saves, etc) and let the console deal with it.
<HazRPG> still have a dump of the whole hard drive though in raw format should anything ever come of it - its not a case that the data was sensitive material and the stuff on it lost, I was just mainly angry that I lost it in the first place - plus there might be a few files that I hadn't backed up on there.
<HazRPG> Cepheus: You'd think so wouldn't you :/
<jpds> photorec is really good for these kinds of things.
<ali1234> foremost
<ali1234> or just a hex editor
<ali1234> actually step 1: strings -n 10 dump.bin | less
<HazRPG> jpds: I doubt it, the whole drive gets encrypted in a proprietary format
<HazRPG> jpds: Took me hours to get the computer to even realise there was a hard drive in there in the first place
<jpds> HazRPG: Nice.
<HazRPG> jpds: otherwise it would have been dead easy to recover the files from it
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, would that really work?
<ali1234> idk
<gord> just to point things out, linux was only removed because people were cracking it...
<gord> it wasn't the other way around
<directhex> gord, that's a convenient lie from sony btw
<kunjan> hello
<gord> sorry right yes, they removed it because they are evil and want to hurt you
<gord> kunjan, hello!
<kunjan> hai
<kunjan> hai gord
<HazRPG> gord: people weren't trying to crack it, people were trying to get more from their hardware than sony was allowing - not the same as cracking
<directhex> gord, linux support was missing from early ps3 slim prototypes before the first linux-based hacking attempts were publicized
<gord> directhex, it wasn't removed, it was never added
<dogmatic69> could anyone tell me where is the 'correct' place to install apps?
<kunjan> software centre
<gord> dogmatic69, via the software centre? what are you trying to install and how?
<ali1234> gord: hmm so why did they remove ps1 support? was that being used for cracking too?
<dogmatic69> 0MQ
<ali1234> (or was it ps2?)
<dogmatic69> ./configure and make
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: Software Centre is your best bet for most things, unless your confident with aptitude or synaptic
<dogmatic69> http://www.zeromq.org/intro:get-the-software
<directhex> gord, it was removed. both the fat & slim run the same firmware
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: that is not in apt-get
<gord> ali1234, sony paniced basically, i don't think they did it because of a specific problem but more because they just didn't want loose threads
<Cepheus> gord: actually it was removed from the slim before that happened
<HazRPG> ali1234: PS2 ;)
<directhex> gord, and the slim is entirely capable of running linux. the feature was removed from the firmware.
<gord> directhex, it wasn't removed from the slim, it was *never* *added*
<gord> i bought one, release day, didn't have the option from day one
<directhex> gord, PRECISELY
<ali1234> gord: so nothing to do with people not being willing to buy the latest iteration of some tired franchise if their old PS2 disc still works perfectly well?
<gord> ali1234, oh sorry i misread
<HazRPG> ali1234: I have a feeling they removed that because they thought the vulnerabilities in the PS2 chip that was inside the PS3 could be used against them. Which is why they started to manufacture future consoles after the initial 40/60GB's without that chip inside it - but why the removed the Software Emulation for the PS2 is beyond me
<gord> ali1234, they removed ps2 support to reduce costs iirc
<directhex> there's no "slim" versus "fat" firmwares. they run the same firmware. the firmware they put on the slim had a feature the hardware supported fine removed.
<HazRPG> gord: The firmware in your slim is still the same as one in the fat ;)
<HazRPG> gord: it was stripped out on purpose, and released as such.
<HazRPG> Sony has even admitted as such if I recall.
<gord> HazRPG, the *product* did not come with linux support, from day one, it was neither added nor removed
<dogmatic69> gord: so where is the place to compile this stuff?
<gord> i'm going to go make a pizza, y'all can claim i removed linux support from it all you want
<dogmatic69> dont want to really clutter my home dir
<directhex> ... how is this an argument?
<ali1234> all i can say is kudos to graf_chokolo for publicly and visibly standing up to these people
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: Ah, sorry didn't notice that
<KrimZon> I just tried handbrake, but it only seemed to support mp4 and that h264 format, rather than the xvid I'd been encoding with dvd::rip
<KrimZon> so I tested some stuff in mp4 but there was so much colour bleeding it looked like I'd stabbed a unicorn
<HazRPG> ali1234: and fail0verflow
<ali1234> most people would not continue after sony raided their house.
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: to compile you'll need to do it from command line
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: my question was not how to compile it
<dogmatic69> where
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> my mistake
<ali1234> considering that you don't really have write access to anything outside ~
<ali1234> except for /tmp, /var/tmp etc
<ali1234> the answer is clearly ~
<HazRPG> iirc just place the download anywere in ~, run the commands from there
<HazRPG> some coders have their code automatically compile (or is it make?) in the correct place for you
<KrimZon> could've been the turbo first pass though
<HazRPG> ali1234: wow I have so much to learn about make files
<HazRPG> trying to work out from the download where its trying to place it
<ali1234> i wouldn't bother learning gnu make tbh
<ali1234> learn cmake instead
<ali1234> the trouble with make is for any none-trivial project you need autotools, and autotools seriously need to diaf
<HazRPG> ali1234: is that what you use?
<ali1234> if i was going to make a none trivial project i would use cmake, sure
<ali1234> for trivial stuff (that does not require autotools) make is fine
<ali1234> but you can learn that in 10 minutes
<HazRPG> ali1234: just interested, since I would like to develop code for linux at some point
<HazRPG> getting sick of Windows coding
<HazRPG> esp. since I'm trying my best to run away from it
<Cepheus> cmake is a breath of fresh air
<ali1234> well most likely you won't be making a new project from scratch, so you would use whatever the project uses
<ali1234> probably only about 10 people in the whole world actually know how to do this with autotools
<Cepheus> it also has good support for a large range of IDEs and build toolchains
<HazRPG> tell you what, my php coding has been so much better since I've started focusing on linux more - love the fact that you can try out functions in the terminal
<ali1234> if you are making a new project, you probably won't be making it in C, so again, make won't be much use to you
<ali1234> if you actually are making a new project and doing it in C it's probably going to be highly OS specific and so won't need autotools anyway
<Cepheus> autotools will generally on non-POSIX environment
<Cepheus> ali1234: Not necessarily. C can be very portable.
<ali1234> no. just no.
<Cepheus> give me a language that is portable.
<HazRPG> ali1234: The project I have in mind when I get round to it, will mainly be C++ if I can help it - but I would really like it to be multi-platform from compile
<ali1234> anything can be portable as long as you use the magic 1% of the language that works everywhere
<HazRPG> been looking into compile time header checks, etc
<AlanBell> you should never have to think about which language to use for any project ever
<ali1234> however, if you use java it's more like 50%, and if you use python it is more like 100%
<Cepheus> The C standard library is generally standardised. things like sockets are easy to abstract
<HazRPG> AlanBell: how'd ya mean?
<ali1234> if you use C++ and Qt it is probably around 90%
<Cepheus> and there are libraries that do this for you.
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: have you managed to install that software btw?
<dogmatic69> still waiting to know where i should stick it
<Cepheus> JVM is either written in C or C++
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: ^
<Cepheus> Python is certainly written in C.
<ali1234> who writes sockets code any more in this day and age?
<AlanBell> if you are doing a Wordpress extension or Joomla plugin it will be php, if you are doing a Django based thing it will be python, if you are doing a device driver it will be C if you are hacking on Alfresco it will be Java
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: noticed
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: think someone said something
<ali1234> python written in C by someone else than me
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: well like I said, compile and make it anywhere in ~
<AlanBell> if you are starting a new project from scratch you should already *know* what the best language in the world ever is
<AlanBell> because if you don't you are not ready to start something from scratch
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: it should just place itself in the right place, but if not... just do what I do and make a .myapps folder in your ~ and place it there
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: ok, ill make 'program files' in ~ :D
<ali1234> if you are writing a new thing from scratch, it probably means you hate all the old ones, and think they would be much better if the authors just used language X
<Cepheus> Virtually every general language has support for sockets, because they are *widely* used.
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: best not to have spaces I find ;)
<dogmatic69> lol, i know... just bringing some m$
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: you could do either ~/programfiles or ~/.programfiles
<dogmatic69> apps
<HazRPG> that way the folder is hidden :)
<dogmatic69> ;)
<ali1234> Cepheus: i have not had to write code that manually opens sockets in years, because programming languages today are significantly higher level than that
<Cepheus> libraries like APR, NPR and Glib make portability in C trivial.
<ali1234> the only reason anyone would actually write that code is in order to make compatibility libs, which as you point out, already exist in massive amounts
<dogmatic69> by the way, any coders around... you should check out this 0MQ shit... its awesome
<AlanBell> Cepheus: cpython is written in c, but there are other pythons
<Cepheus> AlanBell: CPython is the standard and by far the leading implementation. PyPy, Jython et al are simply do not have the right level of stability and compatability for shipment in distributions or use in production environments
<AlanBell> Cepheus: sure, I don't disagree with any of that
<HazRPG> ali1234: I've done socket code for a Java app before.
<AlanBell> I have done socket code in RPG on an AS/400
<HazRPG> ali1234: I hate to admit this, but one of the first few programs I'd ever written was also socket code in VB6
<dogmatic69> arggg... wtf is wrong with update manager
<dogmatic69> stuck on libpango1.0-common for 10 min now
<AlanBell> bunch of AS/400 developers wanted to know more about TCP/IP so I picked up a book about the RPG language and knocked together a simple chat responder you could telnet to in RPG as a training app
<Cepheus> CPython most likely supports more environments than the CLR, Jython has a huge memory overhead and slow startup time, and PyPy lacks wide platform support and stability.
<AlanBell> they said they had never seen code that advanced before
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: I had issues with apt-get update earlier, was taking forever
<ali1234> HazRPG: i hope it was 10+ years ago
<HazRPG> AlanBell: heh same reason for my VB6 app
<HazRPG> ali1234: I was 16, so even longer than that
<ali1234> well back then things were very different
<HazRPG> ali1234: mainly because I had access to VB6, and downloading took forever on dialup to get anything else
<ali1234> if you want to write portable code today (ie windows/linux) then the only real choices you have are Qt and java, and in neither case will you ever have to worry about writing a makefile
<HazRPG> ali1234: My max connection speed was 16kbps
<HazRPG> ali1234: and that was if I was lucky!
 * HazRPG mumbles about stupid government based firewalls
<AlanBell> ali1234: python/gtk works fine
<Cepheus> I feel that while sockets are not a preferable way to program in modern days, understanding them is key to understanding network programming.
<ali1234> but gtk... sucks
<HazRPG> ali1234: I'm planning a gaming engine... so Qt probably won't  be the best way to go
<ali1234> python/qt works fine too
<ali1234> HazRPG: do not write a game engine
<HazRPG> Cepheus: Agreed, my first socket code was for that reason.
<ali1234> there aer already enough game engines
<dogmatic69> rather build a cms :D
<HazRPG> ali1234: Don't worry, its not fully from scratch :P
<Cepheus> AlanBell: Distributing applications that are a mix of binary and script code is a bit iffy, especially with runtimes that don't come standard with OSX or Windows or are not widely installed on them, such as Python.
<HazRPG> ali1234: I'm not that insane :P
<HazRPG> ali1234: for rending I've already decided on using Ogre 3D
<HazRPG> rendering*
<ali1234> yup, distributing python stuff on windows is a right pita
<AlanBell> fair point, I tend not to have a distribution problem
<Cepheus> same with Ruby and Perl
<HazRPG> I never understood the craze behind Ruby
<ali1234> HazRPG: it's trendy
<Cepheus> same reason behind the Apple craze, it's easy on the eye ;)
<HazRPG> I learned it because I was obsessed with RPG Maker back in 2000, but that was my only motivation behind it
<Cepheus> Ruby has a lot of odd behaviors though, such as implicit function calling
<ali1234> the idea behind all trendy languages can pretty much be summed up as "all the old languages suck, so if we just do everything differently than everything else, then we will be better"
<HazRPG> ah wait, wasn't 2000 when they added Ruby to it, think it was more like 2003/04
<HazRPG> but still
<HazRPG> ali1234: true...
<hamitron> don't some of the new languages make it "easier" when using with less knowledge?
<ali1234> is that really easier though?
<ali1234> you can write bad code in any language
<HazRPG> hamitron: I think they're designed to be easier - but some just lack great functionality when your trying to do specific tasks
<AlanBell> yeah, but languages that make you do your own pointer arithmetic always seemed rather undignified to me
<ali1234> true enough, but languages without pointers have been around since at least basic
<AlanBell> yup
<HazRPG> I remember basic :)
<ali1234> so like 40 years
<Cepheus> pointer work is a useful tool but it's easy to misuse or construct buggy code
<ali1234> i'd like to see you write a device driver without pointers
 * AlanBell would not like to write a device driver
<HazRPG> AlanBell: agreed
<Cepheus> Lisp is _very_ old and has no pointers at all
<ali1234> as such, it's lucky that C is not dead yet
<Cepheus> I don't see C being replaced by anything for portable systems programming.
<ali1234> no one is even trying, because C pretty much got it perfect
<hamitron> tbh, I find C easier than C++ :/
<ali1234> that's because it *is* easier
<hamitron> ah :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: I find it really depends what your trying to do
<hamitron> so why everyone use it?
<hamitron> ;/
<Cepheus> C++ is sort of like C with an object-oriented model nailed to it
<ali1234> C++ is C with a bunch of extra rules to stop idiots writing broken code
<HazRPG> although, can't really make that judgement since I haven't done an awful lot with C
<HazRPG> Cepheus, ali1234: Yeah I agree with that.
<ali1234> it's essentially C for assembly line programming
<Cepheus> most of the objective stuff feels like structs with scoping
<ali1234> by which i mean where lots of people with very little actual skill each bash out a bit of the code and then you pray it all hangs together at the end
<ali1234> this is the whole purpose of all OO languages btw
<ali1234> nobody *ever* uses it for code resuse
<ali1234> *reuse
<HazRPG> ali1234: really?
<HazRPG> ali1234: I do in my programming.
<ali1234> that's because you're the only programmer on your projects
<ali1234> i assume
<HazRPG> ali1234: For most things, yeah you would be right
<ali1234> in large projects you hardly ever see code reuse, OO is used exclusively to stop other coders from misusing your objects
<ali1234> which ends up where all objects are completely opaque black boxes
<ali1234> which is fine when those objects actually work
<hamitron> 1 thing worries me about the direction of things...
<hamitron> there seems to be a focus on not using old methods
<hamitron> like, opengl depreciating stuff
<ali1234> ok, in a slightly less hyperbolic explanation, C++ is C with extensions that allow the developer to make a contract about how the code is used
<ali1234> if there's only 1 developer, this is not very helpful
<Azelphur> Anyone got opinions on bong/evaporative cooling? Apparently it's more efficient than water with a radiator :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> All the Farnham (ish) dwellers. #Farnham #TwestivalÂ tickets are available http://t.co/FRlV0so
<hamitron> the only sort bong I know....
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> sorta*
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> http://www.overclock.net/attachments/phase-change/79656d1217920494-budget-subambient-temperatures-bong-anyone-bong-.jpg science!
<hamitron> imho Azelphur, if you need more than a heatsink, you are pushing silicon too far
<ali1234> right
<Azelphur> hamitron: so I should underclock? :D
<hamitron> maybe apply less thermal paste?
<ali1234> you should buy a CPU that does not catch fire with the stock cooler
<HazRPG> hamitron: don't you mean more?
<hamitron> use a massive copper heatsink
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> you want as little as possible
<Azelphur> anyway I quite like the idea of doing some fun hackery and getting some overclocking going :D
<Cepheus> large surface area, thinly spread
<HazRPG> hamitron: I always thought you needed a nice thin layer over the whole surface
<Cepheus> maximum heat transfer
<hamitron> exactly
<Azelphur> hamitron: I think I applied it correctly, I talked to an intel lady and she pretty much said my temps are close to normal
<ali1234> Azelphur: what happened to oil tank cooling?
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: it's crap everyone decided
<hamitron> then intel have overcooked it... literally
<ali1234> lolz, yeah
<Azelphur> hamitron: apparently 85C is "normal" for my CPU
<ali1234> my CPU is 39 degrees on normal use, 60 degrees on max
<HazRPG> Azelphur: I thought it was 75'C?
<dutchie> hahaha
<ali1234> with stock cooler
<Azelphur> ali1234: mine is 40 at idle, but goes up to 94 if I 100% all cores
<hamitron> if you pour coffee on it, there will be a weird reaction, but still the wrong thing to do
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> ali1234: I must say I've never gotten mine over 60'C either
<dutchie> popey: you know how you tweeted about Win8 getting virtual desktops?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: nah iirc intel said 85 under load
<hamitron> I never got mine to 40 C :/
<hamitron> and I BOINC it all day and night
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> anyway if I add decent cooling I can clock to 4 or 5ghz :D
<dutchie> popey: just listening to LugRadio ep 2 all the way from 2004 and they made a joke about how MS invented them :)
<Azelphur> and then I'll be like yayfun
<hamitron> I wouldn't clock
<hamitron> just chill
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: That was me playing a game through Wine, rendering some 3D stuff at the same time that caused the temperature spike
<Azelphur> clocking is fine as long as you keep the temps down
<Azelphur> and I'd like to think once I add some decent cooling, it'll actually stay cooler than with the intel stock cooler
<Azelphur> I'd like to aim for <70C under load
<hamitron> Azelphur: turn off the central heating
<hamitron> dedication my friend
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> yes, what's your ambient temp?
<Azelphur> hamitron: shit don't work anyway so it doesn't matter if it's on/off :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: 20-30C
<hamitron> omfg
<hamitron> how hot?
<ali1234> 30 degrees ambient is borderline heatstroke territory :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha, in the summer my room goes to 35
<hamitron> it is 11 C in here atm
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> according to my clock, anyway
<Azelphur> my clock that did temperature readouts died a while back, though :(
<hamitron> you could just get air conditioning for your case
<Azelphur> need to get a new one.
<hamitron> I'm glad I decided not to get the i7 now
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> will chill with an i3
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> dual 3.2ghz is enough for me
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> hamitron: I bought this machine with the plan of aftermarket cooling and overclocking
<Azelphur> it's what I wanted to do from the start
<Azelphur> so I don't really see it as an issue :D
<hamitron> suppose
<Azelphur> so really it's a case of what the optimal cooling solution is :D
<hamitron> I remmeber a while back, you showed some mini cooling things
<hamitron> get one of them ;)
<Azelphur> and then playing how much can I overclock
<Azelphur> tec?
 * hamitron shrugs
<Azelphur> that stuffs expensive :p
<hamitron> ah :)
<hamitron> we are the total opersite, I look for how to remove fans and cut costs ;/
<hamitron> you just blow things up
<Azelphur> hamitron: haha, I spent 1.1k on this machine already, it's my baby :D
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> actually it's probably worth more than that because I used parts from my old computer
<hamitron> :|
<hamitron> I saw a good value all in one water cooling kit for 50 quid
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> would that not be ok?
<Azelphur> TEC is actually cheaper than what I thought it was before :o
<Azelphur> http://www.limitedgoods.com/itemView.php?ProdID=672127&source=FroogleUK&medium=free&campaign=FroogleUK_InStock o.O
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> not something like this: http://www.limitedgoods.com/itemView.php?ProdID=658269
<hamitron> but for your socket ofc
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> haha it's so tiny :D
<Baikonur> that's what she said
<hamitron> haha
<Azelphur> lol
<hamitron> Azelphur: I think you should get one of these: http://www.maplin.co.uk/plug-in-mains-power-and-energy-monitor-38343
<hamitron> and tell us the figures
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> hamitron: I'd have to get a few, I have 4 power strips in my room
<ali1234> i have one of those
<ali1234> it says my computer uses 120W at full load
<hamitron> hmmm
<Azelphur> What I've always kinda wanted to do is some wind power into a UPS
<hamitron> is that about right?
<dogmatic69> ffs
<Azelphur> but I don't know how to, and my parents would have a fit if I even suggested it :P
<dogmatic69> how can i remove this... Unpacking replacement libpango1.0-common ...
<ali1234> Azelphur: you need a windmill, a dynamo, and a inverter
<dogmatic69> i cant install anything as it keeps getting stuck
<ali1234> you can buy them all at maplin
<Azelphur> ali1234: how much?
<hamitron> better to use solar power
<ali1234> depends how much power you want to generate
<Azelphur> hamitron: I'm 5 miles away from the UK's largest wind farm, I figure my location is optimal for wind
<dogmatic69> solar is poor at making power
<ali1234> which reminds me, i was in JTF the other day and they had a petrol generator for Â£80
<Azelphur> ali1234: enough to power my room, lol
<hamitron> solar is quieter ;/
<Azelphur> so quad monitor, my stupidly overclocked PC
<Azelphur> and a few other bits
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: ive investigated wind power and for 2kw you need about 3m dia wind turbine
<dogmatic69> not very small
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> 2.8kw too
<Cepheus> solar isn't very redundant
<Azelphur> I suppose technically I don't have to worry about it as my town is pretty much running off wind energy anyway
<ali1234> you'd need to spend probably 5 figures or more to get that from solar or window power
<Azelphur> so I'm clean energy automagically
<dogmatic69> the circuitry is also very complicated. best one i have see is something that actually uses electro magnets to slow the blade down so it does not over rev, eg: spins faster == more current to the break
<Azelphur> oh hey, it's the worlds biggest wind farm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanet_Wind_Farm
<Azelphur> yay my area wins at clean energy
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: try grabbing from the ubuntu site
<dogmatic69> ?
<hamitron> can keep your wind turbines, I'll take a coal power station ty
<Azelphur> haha
<dogmatic69> lol
 * dogmatic69 likes the fact that electric cars get power from coal stations
<Azelphur> xD
<hamitron> yes, zero emisions baby!
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> although, don't we mostly have gas?
<dogmatic69> by 20something 10% of uk will be electric cars
<ali1234> 2099?
<dogmatic69> new nissan or something coming out for 25k after a 5k grant
<hamitron> can you even get a decent electric car yet?
<shauno> I've always been a big fan of nuclear.  they've gotta give in and admit it's the way to go eventually
<dogmatic69> 2016 or something
<ali1234> nuclear cars, sounds like a winner
<dogmatic69> nuke is cool
<dogmatic69> lol
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Nucleon
<shauno> sorry, we were talking about coal powered cars?
<hamitron> I think they should increase the price of fuel and reduce the cars on the road
<HazRPG> shauno: haha, would be interesting if they could get it to work
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> HazRPG: I mean in general
<Azelphur> "Someone crashed in London, it's gone now"
<dogmatic69> always funny reading stats on nuclear subs... range: unlimited
<hamitron> haha
<Azelphur> "We've announced a new capitol city, New London"
<HazRPG> shauno: once the nuclear division starts, there's no stopping it
<shauno> for regular power stations
<hamitron> if we all drive nuclear cars, can we all drink red wine while driving?
<HazRPG> shauno: I guess... but in a car how would it work exactly, since a car isn't exactly turned on all day long
<shauno> HazRPG: I never said in a car.  that's ali1234 being obtuse as usual
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> my mistake
<shauno> I dont' get why we're still milking gas & coal stations when we've got a perfectly good alternative
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: its not like you would run out of fuel if you left it running
<hamitron> where do we put the waste?
<Cepheus> hamitron is correct
<hamitron> I always am? ;)
<Cepheus> we also have a large infrastructure for coal and gas power already
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: true..
<Cepheus> building nuclear reactors doesn't come free
<dogmatic69> shauno: because petrol giants like shell bp etc keep paying the alternative sources to shut up
<ali1234> mainly because everyone got really scared of anything involving the word "nuclear" during the cold war
<HazRPG> hamitron: instead of fuel-pumps, we have fuel-dumps xD
<dogmatic69> lol
<shauno> eh, they've been reprocessing fuel for years now
<shauno> it doesn't all get buried under drigg anymore
<hamitron> I think there is a lot of debate about if nuclear is actually cost effective. Each industry for each method likes to round figures in their own favour :/
<dogmatic69> thing i dont understand is crude oil -> diesel is easier than crude oil -> petrol and petrol is cheaper
<hamitron> diesel should be banned
<hamitron> end of that ;/
<HazRPG> hamitron: might not be cost effective, but its not like its ever going to run out as quick - I think is the main argument about it
<dogmatic69> hamitron: you cant run tractors on petrol, not enough power
<dogmatic69> ~= no more food
<ali1234> petrol is cheaper by the gallon but but deisel has a higher energy density so you cannot directly compare prices
<HazRPG> hamitron: nah, it shouldn't be banned, it should just be used for a different purpose - since we still get diesel as a by-product from crude oil anyways
<shauno> sad thing is the UK used to have some of the most efficient nuclear plants going, but we lost the edge
<hamitron> diesel should be banned from road cars I mean
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> it is
<ali1234> well, tax free deisel is
<dogmatic69> ali1234: good point, but that does not justify the cost... it should be manufacturing price + x%
<HazRPG> I love how the discussions on here shift so quickly xD
<hamitron> dangerous :/
<Cepheus> what's dangerous about diesel?
<hamitron> the layer of it left on the road, sliperry when it rains
<ali1234> not much
<ali1234> that's not just deisel
<HazRPG> I was just about to say
<ali1234> it's all the crap that comes out of all cars and vehicles
<Cepheus> often engine oil
<ali1234> let's ban all vehicles \o/
<ali1234> then the roads will be safe for everyone
<HazRPG> ali1234: then we wouldn't even need roads! \o/
<hamitron> I would reduce the number of cars as well :)
<ali1234> yeah, then we wouldn't have to pay road tax to keep them repaired
<ali1234> sounds like a good idea to me
<ali1234> throwing the baby out with the bath water? nah
<HazRPG> ali1234: best thing yet, never will the words "pot-holes causes havoc once again" on the news \o/ :D
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Lord] Packt Publishing Supports Open Source by $300,000 (So far) - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/03/02/packt-publishing-supports-open-source-by-300000-so-far/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=packt-publishing-supports-open-source-by-300000-so-far
<hamitron> but the very least we could do, is reduce the distances we move ourselves and everything
<dsas> we don't pay "road tax" for roads.
<HazRPG> dsas: those of us who have cars do :P
<hamitron> and motorbikes ;/
<dsas> it's vehicle excise duty. It goes into general taxation, and road works are paid for out of general taxation (or via PFI)
<dsas> (and depending on the road, out of council tax)
<dsas> the money hasn't been reserved/earmarked for roads for about 70/80 years or so....
<dsas> uhm </pedantry>
<hamitron> slows down traffic at least ;)
<hamitron> a challange to get to your distination
<hamitron> \o/
<hamitron> Road Rash pothole edition
<dogmatic69> hamitron: telecommuting ftw
<HazRPG> dsas: heh, this is true
<HazRPG> hamitron: roflysst xD
<Azelphur> Anyone know much about wifi range extending?
<Azelphur> I want it to be seamless so not requiring you connect to another router or have a connection drop
<HazRPG> Azelphur: get a bigger 'tenna
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> HazRPG: find me an antenna that'll go through a huge dividing wall into my houses extension
<Azelphur> nothing gets out there, it even messes up mobile phone signal
<Azelphur> passage, into the kitchen, enjoy your 0 bars signal :P
<Azelphur> 5 bars when you step out of the kitchen lol
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I have full signal all around my house
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: but when I walk from my front door to my back door (or back) while making a call, it will drop
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: you don't live in a 3 story victorian building :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I live on the 7th floor :)
<Azelphur> yea but you don't provide wifi for the other 6 floors
<Azelphur> I do :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ah, I'm talking about 2G/3G signal
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> but yea wifi wise I'm in a 3 story house and there are 2 attics a cellar and an extension
<Azelphur> so I totally need some range extension :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: nah, you need multiple APs and some wire to them
<Azelphur> yea that's what I've been doing, and setting all the SSIDs to the same name
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: 802.11n concurrent dualband linked with gbit ;)
<Azelphur> but the connection drops when you switch, and my brothers dumb windows laptop always picks the router with the lowest signal so he rages at me
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: are they in routing mode? set them to "bridge" (access point) mode
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: or don't use the WAN port for uplinking (except on the one that's connected to The World :)
<ali1234> nooooooooooooooooooooooo
<Azelphur> that's a lot of o's
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: NAT on NAT is worse than not using the WAN port
<Azelphur> that's how I have it wired atm, one main router, and all the other routers are just networked into eachother
<ali1234> what channels are you using?
<Azelphur> 1 6 and 11
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: so the wan ports on the secondary routers are empty :P
<MartijnVdS> if you're using N, the channels are wider.. I have my Fritz!box autochannel \o/
<ali1234> ensure that the laptop is actually capable of using all those channels
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: 1,6,11 are always usable.. 12/13/14 might be meh
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: also the "A" channels (5GHz)
<ali1234> that doesn't mean they will actually work
<Cepheus> I can get a wifi signal in the garage in the bottom of my garden, though the fact that the room the modem is in has the largest patio door I've ever seen pointing in that direction probably helps
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I've never had a device that worked on some channels but not others (except 12/13)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: the main router has N but the secondary ones don't
<ali1234> plenty of cards have broken drivers that will just refuse to work on a certain channel
<Azelphur> maybe I should invest in some cheap dd-wrt capable routers that can do N and bridging?
<hamitron> I'd just tell your brother real men use wires
<hamitron> ;/
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that might be the cause of droppage.. what happens when you set the main one to B+G
<ali1234> so i would shuffle the channels around
<ali1234> or failing that the routers
<ali1234> so he is nearest the one that actually works with his laptop
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> bridging won't help you in any way
<Azelphur> won't it?
<ali1234> wireless bridging that is
<Azelphur> as I said I don't like dropping when walking through the house
<ali1234> you are already bridging the Aps with the wired network
<ali1234> bridging does not solve that problem
<ali1234> if you have roaming configured as you say, you should not drop
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> all I have is everything on the same SSID, different channels
<Azelphur> and all the routers are basically switches connected to the main one
<Azelphur> and the WAN ports are empty, apart from the main one
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/03/02/s04e01-new-frontier/
<exobuzz> nice! been waiting for that :)
<bigcalm> Christ on a bike!
<popey> hmm?
<bigcalm> Tweet about going up to Edinburgh and instantly get followed by 2 users. Now waiting for the spam
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E01  New Frontier - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/03/02/s04e01-new-frontier/
<dogmatic69> could someone help me with making an alias / bash method to run a few commands
<dogmatic69> want to delete some files, then run a command and delete more files
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: you can put a sequence of commands in a text file, call it something .sh and make it executable and that should about do it
<dogmatic69> rly
<dogmatic69> let me try
<dogmatic69> one per line?
<mgdm> make the top line look like this:
<mgdm> #!/bin/bash
<dogmatic69> ye
<mgdm> then you're good to go :)
<dogmatic69> one command per line then?
<mgdm> yeah
<dogmatic69> hows this? http://bin.cakephp.org/view/229121539
<dogmatic69> it works, am i doing something bad?
<dogmatic69> getting sick of broken updates
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: not sure I would automate that
<dogmatic69> its such a pain to do all the time
<dogmatic69> happens once a week atleast
<AlanBell> not for me
<dogmatic69> for me it does
<dogmatic69> now its getting stuck on libpango1.0-common
<dogmatic69> before my cpu was overclocked and popey somehow put 1 + 1 together and i un-overclocked it, worked for few weeks
<popey> eek
<dogmatic69> now starting again with this
<popey> i wouldn't do that
<dogmatic69> hehe
<mgdm> I wouldn't do that either...
<popey> that lock files exists for a reason
<popey> diagnose that first
<dogmatic69> me: update never works. popey: are you overclocked? me: o.o
<popey> also figure out at the time when updates fail
<popey> i have overclocked my desktop before
<popey> not at the moment
<dogmatic69> popey: it happens at the time i type apt-get upgrade :/
<popey> dont type that then
<popey> :D
<dogmatic69> lol
<popey> seriously, dont
<dogmatic69> well i really want to type apt-get install uuid-dev
<popey> right, so you have an overclocked machine?
<dogmatic69> *did*, was months back
<popey> ok, so now, does it error/
<popey> ?
<dogmatic69> yes
<dogmatic69> started again
<popey> right, 1) dont do sudo apt-get upgrade
<popey> do sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<popey> 2) post your /etc/apt/sources.list
<dogmatic69> intel quad core, q8200 8gigs ram x64 10.10 etc
<popey> (and any files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
<popey> pastebin them
<dogmatic69> borked: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/430651202
<dogmatic69> and now everything is locked :/
<popey> ok, dont do anything
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1267092422
<dogmatic69> file list
<popey> wait one moment
<dogmatic69> source.list http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1874429059
<dogmatic69> np
<popey> dogmatic69: how much disk space do you have?
<popey> df -h ?
<dogmatic69>  /dev/sda1             895G   98G  752G  12% /
<popey> :)
<dogmatic69> few spare meg's there
<popey> just a bit
<popey> can you pastebin /var/log/dpkg.log ?
<dogmatic69> i thought i had a 500gig... oh well
<popey> also
<popey> is the terminal still sat there?
<popey> you havent killed it?
<dogmatic69> killed it :/
<popey> bah
<dogmatic69> can run it again
<popey> run sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<dogmatic69> got my quick bash to fix it
<popey> I didnt say kill it :)
<dogmatic69> ok, run it again
<popey> in another terminal, run top
<dogmatic69> does this... http://bin.cakephp.org/view/430651202
<popey> see whats eating the box
<dogmatic69> just sitting there
<dogmatic69> o.o
<dogmatic69> nothing eats this box :D
<popey> ok, leave it running
 * popey has a command that would eat it :)
<popey> 10 times over
<dogmatic69> please show me
<popey> no :)
<popey> I'd get kicked from the channel :)
<dogmatic69> aw
<popey> can you open a terminal
<dogmatic69> pm
<popey> and run top
<popey> see whats at the top
<dogmatic69> *htop
<popey> or that
<dogmatic69> colors :)
<popey> heh
<popey> pretty!
<dogmatic69> google chrome is 4% ram, highest
<popey> can you run top, not htop
<popey> then press q
<popey> then highlight it all and pastebin
<dogmatic69> oooh.. just remebered i installed some pastebin app
<dogmatic69> can pipe stuff to pastebin some how
<popey> pastebinit
<dogmatic69> thats it
<popey> yeah, but for now, just clicky click
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/690441333
<popey> ta
<dogmatic69> filling cakephp's bin with ubuntu
<popey> uh
<popey> what on earth you running on that
<popey> load avergae of 5
<dogmatic69> lol
<dutchie> it could be a 5 core machine
<dogmatic69> 4 core
<popey> doesnt matter
<popey> its still loaded
<dutchie> true
<dogmatic69> popey: i have loads open
<dutchie> i was thinking the other direction
<popey> 24GB SWAP!?
<popey> you running SAP?
<dogmatic69> :D
<dogmatic69> that is ubuntu installer -> next -> next -> next -> kthnksbye
<mgdm> D:
<popey> dogmatic69: ps aux | pastebinit
<dogmatic69> swap is *never* even used
<popey> well, yeah, with 8GB, I'd imagine not much :)
<popey> big fat gaping space on disk :)
<dogmatic69> popey: you mean the 800gigs?
 * dogmatic69 has pastebinit at work :/
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/439421098
<dogmatic69> 400 tabs in chrome, cherokee, mysql, postgres cgi ... it all adds up
<dogmatic69> and firebloat
<dogmatic69> things still snappy though
<popey> i see lots of dpkg there
<popey> right, do this
<popey> sudo killall dpkg
<popey> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<popey> thats quite a monster you have there :)
<HazRPG> 24GB swap!!
<dogmatic69> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable)
<HazRPG> >_<
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: thank ubuntu's installer... i loled when i saw it too
<popey> sudo rm /var/lib/dpkg/lock
<popey> ps aux | grep dpkg
<popey> make sure none running
<dogmatic69> should i kill that terminal now
<popey> oh, yes, sorry
<popey> :)
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: heh, that's why I always set the partitions up manually - I prefer my choices to an automagic one any day
<popey> we have boxes at work with 32GB SWAP
<popey> 20GB is the min required for SAP
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: first time just about when i built this one
<ali1234> i have 32GB swap
<dogmatic69> how much ram?
<ali1234> not sure why tho, the computer basically locks hard as soon as anything tries to use any large amount of it
<ali1234> 4GB
<HazRPG> popey: well I can understand if it has SAP though
<dogmatic69> popey: ps aux | grep dpkg spits out loads of stuff
<popey> dogmatic69: even after sudo killall dpkg
<popey> ?
<mgdm> I used to do the 2x RAM for swap thing, but nowadays I just have about the same amount as I have RAM - not that it ever gets used unless I'm using Eclipse. :)
<dogmatic69> popey: yip
<popey> ps aux | grep dpkg
<popey> pastebin pls
<dogmatic69> its not pretty http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1128273544
<HazRPG> mgdm: heh, I only ever did the 2xRAM thing back when I had only  < 2GB RAM
<mgdm> aye
<mgdm> worked well back in 64MB RAM days ;)
<HazRPG> but with 6GB of RAM, I thought having 12GB swap would be insane
<ali1234> i discovered that if you use imagemagick to resize images downwards, it uses 2.5x the size of the uncompressed input image in memory
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: i think with 8gigs, i could get away with 1byte of swap
<popey> dogmatic69: sudo kill -9 3883 5225 9052 9601 10010
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: you'd be surprised what still uses swap even when you have lots of RAM ;)
<popey> yeah
<popey> oracle
<popey> sap
<ali1234> everything does
<popey> java
<ali1234> because linux will swap out inactive ram to use it for disk cache
<dogmatic69> popey: still the same output for the grep
<popey> reboot
<dogmatic69> :/
<HazRPG> ali1234: hehe, I'm no linux guru, but that's one thing I definitely know about :)
 * hamitron has no swap
<HazRPG> hamitron: :o
 * dogmatic69 wants ssd... hate waiting for reboot
<dogmatic69> brb
<hamitron> 2gb ram is plenty on a machine that does nothing imo
<HazRPG> hmm, question: Is restarting X != full reboot?
<mgdm> indeed
<hamitron> no
<mgdm> X is just the graphical bit - it sits atop the system in a way not disimilar to Win3.1 on DOS
<HazRPG> well I knew it was the graphical part that sat on top, but I always thought it would kill the graphical apps that were sat running too
<mgdm> it will
<ali1234> it does
<hamitron> not always
<shauno> it does.  but just the graphical apps.  the OS itself doesn't really care if X comes or goes
<ali1234> always
<hamitron> I had a screwed firefox not close
<ali1234> unless they have gone zombie
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> yeah firefox loves to do that
<hamitron> tbh, the speed of ubuntu statup, a full restart is no problem these days :)
<hamitron> startup*
<HazRPG> this is true
<shauno> I'm surprised anyone still uses firefox :/  it's kinda lost the vigor of youth
<popey> extensions seems to be the common reason
<ali1234> chromium lacks so much stuff it is unusable
<HazRPG> I've reduced my grub to 1s delay, since I'm usually going to press a key if I was going to pick something anyways
<ali1234> like an ad blocker that actually works
<hamitron> firefox uses less ram ;)
<dutchie> pfff
<ali1234> live bookmarks
<dutchie> i have a mental ad blocker
<ali1234> and a sensible UI
<hamitron> and firefox is a nicer name
<hamitron> chromium is just...
<dutchie> i switched to chrome because it had a prettier logo
<HazRPG> chromium is always going to be unstable though - that's the whole point of that project
<HazRPG> its basically just code that gets added in as and when
<hamitron> dutchie: I'll give you the logo bit ;)
<ali1234> don't care about that
<HazRPG> which is why iron and chrome are better, since it's essentially the stable section of the codebase
<HazRPG> I'll give you that extensions is really really lacking
<dogmatic69> o/
<dogmatic69> popey: now grep only has
<dogmatic69> 1000      3528  0.0  0.0   8956   876 pts/0    S+   23:18   0:00 grep --color=auto dpkg
<dutchie> i find chrome perfectly usable
<dutchie> fwiw
<ali1234> i do not appreciate having to wade through the youtube homepage to find new subscription videos
<ali1234> or google reader either for that matter, it is no better
<HazRPG> dutchie: same :)
<shauno> I just find firefox is quickly going the same way as seamonkey.  the fresh start from mozilla seems to have taken all the same design choices and ended up in the same place
<ali1234> yes
<dutchie> maybe FF4 will change all that
<dutchie> and FF5, 6 and 7 by the end of the year or whatever
<HazRPG> FF4 is shaping along nicely, I must admit
<dogmatic69> be running ff20 by December
<shauno> I might try 4 some time, see if it can manage a 12hr shift without eating over half my machine's ram
<popey> dogmatic69: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<dogmatic69> popey: moans about sudo dpkg --configure -a
<popey> do that
<HazRPG> shauno: one thing I think is still a shame about FF4, is that it still hasn't got into its skull that separate processes is a better idea :/
<dogmatic69> popey: \o/ think its running now
<dogmatic69> not stuck at the other place atleast
<popey> good good
<dogmatic69> thanks :)
<HazRPG> I think plugins work better in FF4 though, when something is dying out, it kills that... but I don't think tabs do yet
<popey> np
<dogmatic69> popey: i think the problem is from 'sleep' mode
<shauno> HazRPG: in theory, they shouldn't be.  MDI has never needed to do that.
<popey> dogmatic69: could well be
<shauno> all this mess with trying to stick each tab in it's own process, all anyone actually hopes to do with it is contain flash crashes better
<ali1234> yup
<dogmatic69> often its bombs out when going into sleep mode or coming out of it
<HazRPG> shauno: and java, and javascript?
<ali1234> javascript rarely causes browser crashes
<ali1234> java is quite bad
<ali1234> basically plugins are bad
<ali1234> it should be running only plugins in a different process
<HazRPG> ali1234: guessing you've never accidentally gone on a site where javascript attempts to have an alertbox open and you've just had to kill the whole browser before
<ali1234> yes well, that's a not a crash
<HazRPG> true, but I have seen javascript do some wacky stuff before (even on sane sites like gmail)
<shauno> I've got bigger beef with ff than process containment.  I crash it 3 times a day at work, like clockwork.
<HazRPG> I agree that plugins should be treated as independent, along with custom created scripts (addons, extensions, etc)
<HazRPG> shauno: memory overload :(
<HazRPG> shauno: that kills me the most too
<shauno> HazRPG: nah.  it doesn't like being on the non-primary screen when XP's screensaver kicks in
<HazRPG> I've managed to see firefox take up 2GB of RAM before and was soooooo sluggish! I only had 2 tabs open at the time too
<shauno> I can't change the screensaver timeout at work, so it crashes at breakfast, lunch, and my afternoon break.
<HazRPG> shauno: really? I've never seen that before
<shauno> no? I've done it consistently since 2.0
<HazRPG> shauno: see I've had my whole RAM been eaten up since 2.0
<HazRPG> being*
<HazRPG> 1.x was slow... but was a damn-sight better than 2.x
<shauno> haven't been able to replicate it on mac or linux, but on xp, it seems to hate resolution changes & the screensaver.  but only when it's sat on screen 3
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, I've never had 3 screens - 2 max
<HazRPG> guessing they didn't factor in for >3 screen users
<shauno> grumpy today :)
<HazRPG> shauno: you? me?
<shauno> me
<HazRPG> heh, thought it was a bit of both really ^^
<shauno> I think being woken up by the bank being idiots really did ruin the entire day
<HazRPG> I got woken up by some guy trying to sell me doors, and after I'd managed to get to sleep... an automated phone call to tell me my sister's stuff had been sent T_T
<HazRPG> I don't mind being woken up once, but doing it twice or more in a row... is just frustrating
<HazRPG> shauno: so I feel for you, know your pain
<HazRPG> shauno: what happened with the bank exactly?
 * HazRPG imagines a scenario where they were saying "hello mr shauno, can we just ask you a few details ... <detail section> ... right we've just blocked such and such because you don't deal with such and such ... so now we've blocked... and your screwed... haha... goodbike!"
<shauno> hah, not far off
<shauno> they cut our cards off because a transaction showed up in another country the same day as we used them in this one
<HazRPG> I get it all the time :/ bunch of so and so's that they are
<HazRPG> shauno: ouch
<HazRPG> shauno: ironically, I get that a fair bit when trading with international sites
<shauno> they usually freak out every time the mrs goes back to the US.  this time they did it a week after she came back :/
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> shauno: do what I do... ring up before leaving and notify them of days she'll be away, and tell them you'll still be where you are
<HazRPG> that way they don't just insta-ban
<HazRPG> shauno: one thing I like about HSBC internet banking, you can send them a message notifying them of your travel details, so that they don't screw with you while your away
<HazRPG> I learned that one from my travels to the philippines
<HazRPG> I used the card here in the UK, to get a book and some food while waiting for the plane... when I got there, I used their machine to get some local currency out
<HazRPG> well, it made me look stupid at the airport being at an ATM machine with a phone call from my bank...
<dogmatic69>  any recommendations for a screen recorder
<HazRPG> which cost me ~Â£10 :/
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: barclays has a thing online to put dates and places you are going
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: I prefer the HSBC way, since you can outline your travel arrangements better
<shauno> HazRPG: I did the standing around looking stupid thing first time I tried to use a chip & pin card in the real word.  I only got a card to use online, so had no idea what the pin was
 * dogmatic69 wanted a hsbc account
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: I mean in shauno's case, he's still at home while his mrs is away to the states
<dogmatic69> ye
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: I think I got a reply within an hr or sending it too to confirm that it was on record :)
<HazRPG> s/or/of
<dogmatic69> nice
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-03
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, know the feeling
<shauno> last time was fine.  they called me at work while she was still stood at the checkout
<shauno> they got hold of me before she did, so I could just tell her to try again
<HazRPG> shauno: I got my first card just because I wanted to subscribe to broadband ... and to buy stuff online
 * popey pokes shauno with -minecraft
<popey> shauno: am I right in thinking that's your rail tunnel to the castle?
<shauno> aye
<popey> cool
<popey> mind if we move the exit a bit
<popey> ?
<popey> to accomodate the new train station
<popey> :D
<shauno> sure.  I'm all done there
<HazRPG> shauno: that was pretty handy then
<shauno> my current idea of fun is trying to pull the region files apart with python & edit the world :)
<popey> haha
<shauno> aided by not knowing python at all
<HazRPG> shauno: xD
<HazRPG> python isn't hard to pick up in all fairness
<directhex> HazRPG, ooh, didn't know about that!
<directhex> just added the summer holiday!
<HazRPG> just has some annoying quirks though
<HazRPG> directhex: guessing you use HSBC then? :P
<shauno> I think my main grump at the moment is just how my editor of choice handles the indenting.  it tries to do it for me, and gets it wrong more often than not
<directhex> me? nope! course not!
<dogmatic69> any good screen captures with gui?
<dogmatic69> recordmydesktop seems a bit hard to use
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: I usually use screentoaster.com
<HazRPG> oh wow, screentoaster seems to be down :o
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: ooo, http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/ still seems to work though
<dogmatic69> print screen
<dogmatic69> sleep
<dogmatic69> :D
<HazRPG> oh, I thought you meant video
<HazRPG> yeah... pressing printscreen already has a gui :)
<HazRPG> a feature windows has lacked for years :P
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: wait, what is it your trying to do sorry?
<dogmatic69> ye i was looking for video, but got hit buy tiredness
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: nixiepixie talks about video captures for ubuntu/linux in one of her videos :)
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW-ZoKTef_I
<dogmatic69> will check it later
<dogmatic69> gonna sleep now, later all
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: GUVCviewer is the one she uses I think
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: worth a watch, cos she explains it better :)
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: anyways, nice :)
<HazRPG> nite*
<HazRPG> just-eat.co.uk has a bad influence one me >_<
<shauno> trying he.net's ipv6 tests.  they're making me feel stupid :)
<HazRPG> that was weird
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, my knowledge of ipv6 is rather limited
<shauno> I'm not doing too bad, but it keeps throwing in questions about windows
<shauno> last time I had windows at home it didn't have tcp/ip, let alone 6
<HazRPG> ah
<Azelphur> http://i.imgur.com/lZd0q.jpg :D
<shauno> heh
<shauno> having good fun trying to figure out wtf a glue record is.  google's returning a bunch of trash
<shauno> I really wish google had a "ignore blogs and forums" option sometimes
<ali1234> i think your google is broken
<ali1234> mine returns only pages about DNS on the first page of hits
<ali1234> http://www.webdnstools.com/dnstools/articles/glue_records
<shauno> apparently throwing ipv6 in the query was a red herring, because I mostly got forum posts about who had & hadn't had any luck with their respective registrars
<HazRPG> haha, wow, I'm watching the Sinclair vs Acorn rivalry!
<HazRPG> on the iplayer
<shauno> heh, micromen?
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> can't believe I was born of that era and somehow I missed this history lesson
<HazRPG> although I owned a Sharp not a BBC/Acorn or Sinclair
<directhex> i had a dragon 32
<shauno> we had bbc micros at school.  in the late 90s :/
<directhex> which was like a tandy coco, but welsher
<HazRPG> shauno: heh yeah same
<shauno> half decent docu tho.  nice to see the UK side of things
<directhex> dramatization.
<HazRPG> I don't know why it shocks me, but I always had it to believe that the Americans had the personal computer before us...
<shauno> when I grew up the rivalry was more atari vs amiga
<ali1234> atari vs commodore you mean
<shauno> not really.
<HazRPG> shauno: heh I still own an atari :D
<shauno> ST vs the amiga.  I never saw commodore as relevant, despite owning the brand
<ali1234> thing is, commodore was around when sinclair and acorn were fighting it out, and making much more compelling hardware too
<ali1234> which is why they survived into the 16 bit eras while the others faded away
<HazRPG> Sharp MZ-700 is what I've got :)
 * HazRPG googled it
<HazRPG> http://users.ncable.net.au/~stacy/vcomp.html
<ali1234> how can it be atari if it's sharp?
<HazRPG> oh, I owned an atari too
<hamitron> my parents never introduced me to computers, so first ones I saw were when I went to secondary school :/
<HazRPG> (2011-03-03 2:05:28 AM) HazRPG: although I owned a Sharp not a BBC/Acorn or Sinclair
<HazRPG> hamitron: did you not have one in primary school?
<hamitron> no
<HazRPG> we made a traffic light program in primary school :)
<hamitron> or junior school
<hamitron> I was nearly 12 when I had a go on one :)
<shauno> we didn't have any in primary school, but not a bad run of 8bit micros at home
<hamitron> I had a friend with a Spectrum ZX128 +2
<HazRPG> I think most of it was pre-written, because it lit up a traffic-light board that was connected via a serial port of some kind... still my first experience with a computer though :)
<hamitron> but he was always trying to load games off it
<hamitron> on*
<hamitron> I did buy it off him later :)
 * HazRPG wonders if is hello world program on his Sharp MZ-700 still exists on tape
<HazRPG> s/is/his
<shauno> could never stomach spectrums.  had an atari 600 before I ever saw a spectrum, and going from a real keyboard, to that .. 'thing' the speccy had going where each key corresponded to a whole keyword instead of just a character, drove me batty
<hamitron> it depended what "mode" you selected
<hamitron> didn't it?
<shauno> no idea.  never gave it a chance
<shauno> felt like such a flimsy toy after my tank of an atari
<hamitron> I got a PC shortly after, so I never really learnt much on it
<hamitron> still intend to give it a go
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> little thing the size of an oversized calculator, with horrible rubber keycaps.  bleh.
<ali1234> C64 was always the best
<shauno> I always thought having a cart slot /and/ a tape deck in the same machine was the best thing since sliced bread.  stayed my favourite until the a500 :)
<shauno> one of the cleverest things I saw, was this teach yourself french thing we had.  it had lessons recorded as audio segments on the same tape as the program loaded from
<shauno> so it'd load a lesson, start going thru it .. then roll the tape on at the right times so you could listen to the voice with it
<HazRPG> shauno: what was that on?
<shauno> the atari600
<HazRPG> 600 XL?
<shauno> yeah
<HazRPG> nice :)
<shauno> I still think that was multimedia before the term even existed.
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: didn't the commodore 64 come in like 3 different models?
<ali1234> sure, it was on sale for like 10 years though
<HazRPG> I want me a C64
<ali1234> http://www.scene.org/file.php?file=/parties/2005/assembly05/oldskool/music/dirty__64_by_reed___fairlight.mp3&fileinfo
<HazRPG> ali1234: was that done on the C64? :P
<ali1234> yeah
<HazRPG> haha nice
<ali1234> probably the most impressive thing ever done with one
<shauno> people are still using SIDs.  there's even a couple of projects trying to emulate them
<HazRPG> SIDs?
<shauno> the audio chip in the c64
<HazRPG> shauno: ah
<HazRPG> shauno: just the sound part, because as far as I know this one is a finished emulator: http://www.ccs64.com/
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReSID
<ali1234> vice uses it
<HazRPG> nice
<hamitron> off to bed, cya you lot ;)
<shauno> apparently the original is still preferred by purists because some of the sound isn't logic alone.  it's leakages and odd capacitances & stuff that was never actually intended
<HazRPG> hamitron: see ya later dude :)
<ali1234> then there is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txL9l7fI0P4
<HazRPG> haha sweet
<HazRPG> shauno: you mean some people prefer to use the actual machine then an emulator?
<ali1234> no, they made two versions of the SID chip
<HazRPG> ah
<shauno> the chips themselves more than the actual c64
<shauno> tho I know martin galway's CDs were actually recorded straight of the 64.  not sure if that's just because they could tho
<shauno> I really should know better than to start messing with mc 2 hours before I have to be up :/
<HazRPG> ali1234: haha I'm using GoatTracker now
<HazRPG> didn't realise commodore 64 and SIP emulators existed in the ubuntu repos
 * HazRPG is having way too much with this :P
<HazRPG> now if only I knew how to save these...
 * ball just finished listening to the new UUPC
<HazRPG> I keep getting interrupted so I haven't finished listening to the UUPC yet >_<
<HazRPG> I want a c64 :(
<shauno> sheesh, go to sleep already :p
<shauno> every time I see uupc I read uucp and then wonder why people won't let it rest in peace :/
<HazRPG> shauno: not a fan of the podcast?
<shauno> not that at all.  uucp is a dead tech.  uupc reminds me of the term
<HazRPG> oh heh
<shauno> I think mostly because the first time I saw the term in here, they were talking about keeping various mirrors in sync, and uucp didn't seem terribly out of context.  just 20 years too late.  took me a while to figure out why I was confused :)
<HazRPG> yeah I can see how that would be confusing :P
<HazRPG> I've noticed I have to google things a fair amount when reading people on IRC
<HazRPG> too many acronyms
<shauno> that's not a bad thing.  tech gets terribly dull if you're not learning anything
<HazRPG> true
<HazRPG> its just harder to find things when your basing what your reading off the acronym
<shauno> sometimes it'd be easy to believe unix was written by a guy with one finger.  *everything* is an acronym.
<HazRPG> there was one earlier this morning I looked at and and thought "that doesn't make sense" and acronym.com (or similar) just had too many combinations to figure it out :P
<HazRPG> ah that was the one!
<HazRPG> ABM
<shauno> can you imagine how much more obvious the shell would be if it had copy, move, edit, list, instead of cp, mv, ed, ls
<HazRPG> http://www.acronymfinder.com/ABM.html
<HazRPG> shauno: extremely :P
<shauno> and I do believe I'm late for work again.
<HazRPG> >_<
<HazRPG> oops
<shauno> how I manage to do this without even going to bed, I'll never know.  atleast oversleeping makes sense in my head
<HazRPG> shauno: I've been trying to work things like that out in my head for years - and my conclusion is usally "ARGH! The internet did it again!"
<MartijnVdS> \o
<shauno> howdy
<shauno> ugh, forgot to detach screen at home
<MartijnVdS> screen -rd (or screen -x)
<shauno> use -Dr, but I can't remember why the big D.  but it's easy to remember :)
<shauno> just a moment of disorientation while I figure out why the window wouldn't resize
<MartijnVdS> shauno: -D is a more forceful detach, useful if the other side has a hung pty
<shauno> ah well, it works
<Myrtti> mornin
<Myrtti> WOHHHEEEYYY Gingerbread OTA
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: N1?
<shauno> oO
<Myrtti> yup
 * MartijnVdS had his last week
<Myrtti> I thought you flashed it
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I have stock firmware, yes
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I upgraded using the official update.zip that downloads OTA as well
<Myrtti> well, I'm doing the OTA as we speak
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> I love the new screen-off animation :)
<shauno> ah.  now I know what on earth you're talking about :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: OTA = Over-The-Air
<shauno> aye, I didn't put together gingerbread = android in my head immediately
<shauno> thought it was just a celebration of a fun breakfast
<shauno> oh sweet.  just got an email telling me I have to take 51 hours of holiday this month  *rubs hands together*
 * MartijnVdS never gets mail like that :/
<shauno> our funky shift rotation means we rack up holiday hours faster than we can sensibly dispose of them
<Myrtti> I've got seven days to take this month
<shauno> I took 10 weeks holiday in 2009, and still 'lost' holiday balance when the year ended in april
<Myrtti> hmh.
<Myrtti> organizations or organisations?
<shauno> z I believe
<kazade> o/
<Myrtti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences#-ise.2C_-ize_.28-isation.2C_-ization.29
<Myrtti> \o/
<shauno> oh dear, this could be fun
<shauno> I find wherever I tend towards ~ize, the OED agrees with me.  and that's good enough for me :)
<shauno> there's a lot of places where -ize is correct in uk & us english.  and a lot of places where -ise is correct.  the battle over the middle ground seems contentious enough that people assume everything with -ize is 'the american way' and start making a mess
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings. Just received quite a funny email from my local GP (and mate in the pub). danfish would probably like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/574852/
<hoover> mornin
<DJones> Morning
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: I've just sent that joke to my wife who works for the NHS, I'll let you know what her reaction is, if I get thumped though, I'm blaming you
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> What's it mean in a crontab when all five timers are set to *?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Every tick?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Every minute I guess. As that's the smallest interval?
<shauno> I'd assume every minute too.  not sure I'd try it tho
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Does this have an answer on it? http://www.pantz.org/software/cron/croninfo.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah. Thanks. It confirms my assumption. First example.
<DJones> Thats what I was looking at, thought thats what it was suggesting
<tugrik> what job do you have running every minute TheOpenSourcerer ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't - I am reviewing a book for Packt and wanted to check on the advice being given.
<danfish> g'morning
 * danfish catches up
<danfish> very good TheOpenSourcerer :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Just thought, there should be another line in that joke, "The dentists could see the holes in the plans"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Feel free to fork it DJones ;-)
<DJones> Heh
<danfish> DJones: nah - "the dentists commented on the decay of the NHS" ;)
<DJones> danfish: Even better
<dwatkins> hi folks
<Obtuse> Morning.
<danfish> o/
<danfish> someone please remind me why I gave myself sudo privileges on this VPS?
<danfish> in a moment of fat fingered typing I've just deleted half of a website :(
<danfish> czajkows1i: yeh got us at the cricket /o\
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish - just restore from your backup ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkows1i: I do not want to hear about the paddies and cricket. It should never have happened. Who let them play anyway?
<Nafallo> popey: uupc mirror synced, and sync script fixed.
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: what is this 'backup' thing you talk about?
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: Google is your friend http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+a+backup%3F ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just got to go and reboot - kernel update this morning.
 * danfish restores from crashplan and all is well in the world
<shauno> I think the only suitable response is for england to put a decent hurling team together ;)
<danfish> or send in the armed forces to steal all the potatoes and cabbage. Oops, forgot, our armed forces currrently comprise an air rifle, a ww1 biplane and Keith Chegwin :P
 * shauno ponders how much it'd cost to mail you all the cabbage he can find
<danfish> shauno: no tx - I've got some on the go in the garden as it is
<Obtuse> Would sending Keith Chegwin not constitute a war crime or something?
<directhex> Obtuse, only if he does another show naked
<popey> morning all
<bigcalm> Hi popey
<nigelb> Morning :)
<shauno> did everyone just wake up to a naked keith chegwin?  somehow I don't think that one should be /topic'd
<Obtuse> Oh feck.. that's a mental image that'll ruin the rest of the my morning!
<Myrtti> *cough*
<kazade> morning everyone
 * kazade is angry about the BSkyB whitewash :/
<kazade_> hmm, my angry aura killed my wifi :)
<shauno> did a double-take to make sure sky aren't your isp ;)
<kazade> :)
<kazade> grr, the whole thing was such a set up
<kazade> I wrote to my MP a while ago, he told me to mind my own business
<kazade> "Jeremy knows what he's doing"
<kazade> bring on AV, that's all I'm saying
<directhex> mp for life, out of interest?
<kazade> directhex, how'd you guess...
<Obtuse> Sickening isn't it.
<JamesTait> Bon matin!
<directhex> kazade, my mp has been mp here for longer than i've existed
<Obtuse> I've moved from a Lib Dem MP who cared to a Tory minister who clearly doesn't.
<kazade> directhex, apparently we live in a democracy - hah
<Obtuse> I can see myself spending a lot of time on that writetothem.com site!
<Baikonur> democracy isn't any good anyway
<JamesTait> Was it Winston Churchill who said "Democracy is the worst form of Government, except for all the others"?
<gord> no, thats the guy that says "oooooohhh yes!"
<Obtuse> I'd be lying if I said there weren't lots of people I didn't think should vote :)
<kazade> :)
<Obtuse> You only have to walk through the city centre on a Friday night to see a load of them.
<Obtuse> But if it's "We all have a vote or none of us have a vote" then I'd rather we all did.
<kazade> Obtuse, I'd also rather that our votes actually counted for something
<kazade> unlike now when only a small proportion of people's votes count for anything
<Obtuse> Agreed. I'm not sure I agree with PR, as I think the constituency link is a good thing (tm), but some form of AV seems a good plan. I'd like to think that each returned MP had the backing of at least 50% of the voters.
<Obtuse> I keep being told it's terrible and will cause us to have coalitions endlessly in future, but I am not at all sure I dislike that idea. If it's provides more checks and balances... perhaps slightly more than currently.
<BigRedS> I'm a tad concerned it's a change for not quite what anybody really wants, and will just be used as a "look, we tried electoral reform, it didn't work."
<danfish> I want to create a dictatorship
<danfish> it will be called fishland
<BigRedS> But I really don't think the particular way the votes are counted is what's wrong with the parliament
<Obtuse> It's the people in it? :)
<JamesTait> +1 to that. :)
<shauno> perhaps the sensible way to deal with 'lifers' is simply term limits
<BigRedS> part of the issue is the short-termness of everything, though
<BigRedS> *nothing* is thought through beyond the next election
<Obtuse> I can see why.
<Obtuse> If you had to reapply for your job every 4 or 5 years you'd be pretty focused on getting it back from at least half way through.
<danfish> I have mixed feeling about the current bunch - they've slashed public services but are make good noises (and some actions) wrt open source software
<Obtuse> There's an old adage about the police, but I think it applies to politics too, that the same sort of people you would never want being policemen are exactly the sort of people that become one.
<directhex> Obtuse, i'm not sure people understand coalitions
<BigRedS> Obtuse: I've only heard that about politicians
<bigcalm> Borris Johnson == Zaphod Beebolbrox?
<directhex> still a lot of "lib dems broke all their promises!" stuff going on when they control 1/7 of the govt - and that doesn't include the treasury
<BigRedS> I think the consternation is them supportign things they said they opposed
<BigRedS> rather than just the fact that, as a coalition, it's basically the tories
<JamesTait> BigRedS: Yeah, and things they said they would continue to oppose even in a coalition, I think.
<Obtuse> BigRedS: Haha, I'd only heard it about the police :)
<directhex> BigRedS, the average complaint isn't that sophisticated
<Obtuse> directhex: Most other European countries have coalitions as I understand it... and not all of them are Italy :)
<directhex> BigRedS, i think they're doing a LOT of trading of promises - i.e. supporting entirely tory measures to get their way on a few things
<BigRedS> directhex: most of the noise I heard was about the student fees, which is quite an easy one
<directhex> Obtuse, yeah, but johnny foreigner has nothing to teach the glorious empire
<BigRedS> directhex: yeah, but one of 'their' things is AV, for example, but I thought AV was one of the 'solutions' they'd specifically ruled out?
<BigRedS> Must admit, I've got tremendously bored of following it, recently. It's just depressing...
<directhex> BigRedS, AV is the second worst system for electing MPs "fairly"
<kazade> directhex, FPTP worst?
<Obtuse> It's relentless bad news at the moment it seems. Must be no fun being in politics at the moment.
<popey> ahem
<directhex> ALSO UBUNTU IS GREAT
<kazade> :D
 * kazade realizes he started this then disappeared
<shauno> once the ball is rolling, probably the smartest move
<bigcalm> popey: would you recomend #! over unr for the eeepc?
<popey> yes
<kazade> yeah, I'm not gonna make a habit of start conversations like that one... So, how about those crazy Christians eh?
<bigcalm> Easy to install?
<popey> i run it on an eee 900
<kazade> ;)
<popey> kazade: +1
<popey> :)
<BigRedS> q
<BigRedS> gah
<BigRedS> Terminator's not focussing how it used to, I'm sure
<Ng> click vs sloppy?
<BigRedS> it's sloppy, which is what it's supposed to be
<BigRedS> but I also do alt+arrow a lot, and sometimes that goes somewhere I'm not expecting it to
<BigRedS> I might've just confused it with a chain of opening and closing panes, I suppose
<shauno> I thought filling in 150 rows in a html table was going to be mind-numbing.  and then I discovered the wiki formatting.  suddenly 150 rows of html has green grass.
<bigcalm> Anybody here use a fountain pen in their day to day work?
 * popey points bigcalm at dutchie 
<bigcalm> I tend to make a lot of notes and would like to have something special again instead of a 3 quid Pentel gel pen
 * bigcalm starts to imagine dutchie wearing a ruff and using a quil
<popey> thats about right!
<bigcalm> From school, I remember fountain pens being cheep and scratchy. Would be nice to have something smooth/fluid/comfortable
<JamesTait> bigcalm: I do.
<bigcalm> JamesTait: any recomendations?
<bigcalm> House of Fraiser has a pen counter, might go there and try some
<JamesTait> bigcalm: That's quite a tough one for me actually. I use a wooden fountain pen that my wife bought me as an anniversary gift, but it's really smooth.
<JamesTait> I'd say keep it clean, use it regularly and give it a little while to wear to the way you hold your pen.
 * bigcalm nods
<bigcalm> What about inks?
<JamesTait> If it helps, it says "Iridium point" on it. :)
<bigcalm> My boss goes for a vert perticular shade of brown
<bigcalm> s/vert/very/
<JamesTait> Black for me. I don't recall the manufacturer though.
 * JamesTait goes to check the bag of cartridges.
<bigcalm> Ah, you use cartridges insead of a pot you suck it up from with the nib?
<Laney> I found being left handed and using fountain pens to be incompatible :'(
<JamesTait> These days, yes. I used to have the one with the lever, but with two young boys around it was a little less than practical.
<JamesTait> They tend to want to squirt the ink around...
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Images of comic books fill my mind
<JamesTait> The cartridges actually don't have a brand on them, which is suboptimal. I probably just got cheap ones. :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<JamesTait> But for me it's always black ink on 1/5/10mm graph paper.
<bigcalm> I'm wondering which is better, ink well or cartridges
<bigcalm> Carts would be a lot cleaner
<Myrtti> brown ink
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<JamesTait> I used to have a beautiful vibrant blue ink, but one day I just couldn't find it any more.
<mungojerry> fountain pens don't seem to work too well for me, being left-handed
<brobostigon> mungojerry: same as me, iagree,
<mungojerry> unless i wrote hebrew or arabic
<nigelb> Whats wrong with fountain pens and left-handedness?
<nigelb> I'm right handed so I don't know....
<JamesTait> Your hand smudges the ink. :)
<BigRedS> if you write left-to-right you smudge the ink
<nigelb> ahh
<JamesTait> My dad basically writes upside-down because of that.
<bigcalm> Heh
<mungojerry> nigelb: and the way LHers learn to hold the pen in order to not smudge seesm to mean that you can't write with fountain pens very well, the ink doesn't come out and you scratch the paper instead
<s-fox> =)
<nigelb> so that explains why my left-handed friend held the pen almost up-side-down
<JamesTait> It looks quite awkward, but his handwriting is way neater than mine.
 * nigelb waves to s-fox 
<bigcalm> Mine style is horrible
<s-fox> \o
<danfish> anyone know where nfs server logs failed access attempts to?
<nigelb> What is this writing you speak of? and handwriting? :-P
<brobostigon> my handwriting looks like several spiders have walked across th page.
<Myrtti> my mum writes with her right, but can do mirror with her left
<bigcalm> Spooky
<nigelb> what bigcalm said
<nigelb> There wwas this old short story about the telegraph operator who could type on 2 machines. one with each hand.
<s-fox> I am right handed, although when I was 12 I broke my right arm so I used my left.  My right arm is mended, but I can still use my left if I concentrate.
<mungojerry> writing is overrated
<nigelb> at this point, I'd say underrated
<nigelb> Everyone's slightly lazy to write
<bigcalm> Indeed
<mungojerry> i wonder if we would type any faster if keyboards were invented before the typewriter QWERTY imposed slowdown was in place
<bigcalm> I always keep a pen in my pocket. Writing should never be lost
<nigelb> I used to keep a pen in my pocket, until I lost a bunch of them.
<nigelb> Now I just keep the pen in my bag :p
<mungojerry> i only have that opinion because of my advanced human state of lefthandedness ;)
<JamesTait> I always think I have a pen in my pocket, only to find that it's been nicked.
<nigelb> JamesTait: lol
<Laney> I have been burned by leaking ink too many times
 * JamesTait looks at the large ink stain on his trousers.
<mungojerry> i have a chewbacca pen that i take to meetings
<JamesTait> Yeah, me too.
<nigelb> I haven't used a fountain pen in a long while
<bigcalm> JamesTait: heh. If somebody borrows my pen, I keep my eyes on them until I get it back
<nigelb> I never do that, that's why I keep losing mine
<brobostigon> natty is really stablilising out, also the graphics (intel) have stabolised out abit, not many graphics artifacts anymore.
<bigcalm> The fountain pen would stay on my desk I think
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dave Morris] Improving my C++ - http://davemorris.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/improving-my-c/
<mungojerry> nobody steals a chewbacca pen and claims it as their own...it's like owning a pink bike
<Myrtti> I've got a fuchsia pen with glitter and feathers
<nigelb> But I have this big pen which makes it look embarassing to keep in a pocket.  That one gets returned to me after use ;)
<bigcalm> Myrtti: :D
<Laney> actually I think I generally prefer writing in pencil
<nigelb> Myrtti: That's a nice tactic to make sure your pen comes back to you ;)
<nigelb> Laney: heh, very old fashioned :)
<nigelb> I guess what most of us use to write these days is whiteboard markers
<screen-x> morning :)
<bigcalm> Morning screen-x
 * bigcalm wonders where the postman is
<screen-x> bigcalm: still no nibbles?
<bigcalm> No :(
<screen-x> bigcalm: you must be doing well out of the graze late delivery thing
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> There is that
<screen-x> bigcalm: 9.5 We reserve the right to cancel your membership if it becomes apparent that, in our sole opinion, the postal service in your area is too unreliable. <-- Maybe cant make too many claims..
<bigcalm> screen-x: I don't abuse it
<bigcalm> I tend to use it to let them know that they need to stop using royalmail
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> lo
<bigcalm> Maybe it's time to really cancel graze
 * bigcalm sighs
<gord> i ended up moving my day that i get graze to a day where i generally get post
<bigcalm> Ok, I'll move it to Tuesday for now
<mungojerry> what is graze?
<bigcalm> Also going to give 'eatwellbox' a try
<gord> i miss fruit :(
<bigcalm> mungojerry: http://graze.com # enter YQHBHH5 for a free box :)
<popey> ~
<popey> bah
<bigcalm> popey: :P
<mungojerry> basically it's food in the post?
<bigcalm> Yes
<mungojerry> lol
<popey> mine is on saturday
<Ng> mungojerry: graze is fruit and nuts for people who don't go to shops that already sell fruit and nuts ;)
<popey> penfold, shush
<mungojerry> a bit like http://www.abelandcole.co.uk/
<bigcalm> Haha
 * Ng notes that every wickle supermarket he goes into sells bags of fruit and nuts right by the checkout ;)
<gord> working from home, i have justification!
<bigcalm> If we were to buy by the bag, we'd eat too much
<bigcalm> Same here
<Ng> but it's cooler if it arrives in an earthy cardboard box from a hippy-sounding brand ;)
 * mungojerry looks in his desk drawer...bourbon biccies and monster munch and chocolate
<bigcalm> :O
 * mungojerry looks in his bag...apple and orange :)
<bigcalm> What flavor monster munch?
<bigcalm> Flavour
<mungojerry> 10 packs of roast beef, pickle onion and flaming hot
<brobostigon> :)
<mungojerry> the nostalgia effect of MM is too much
<mungojerry> i also eat frazzles but i kind of OD'd on them
<bigcalm> That's why it still sells
<mungojerry> and the fact the walkers crisps give me mouth ulcers, unless i eat sensations
<popey> mmmm frazzles
<bigcalm> I tend not to eat crisps any more
<bigcalm> Or snack at all really
<mungojerry> don't nuts just give you wind?
 * popey cant help but think of Myrtti when people mention crisps
<popey> lol, no
<mungojerry> hmm
<bigcalm> Bloody wrists are loosing weight more quikcly thank my belly :(
<bigcalm> s/thank/than
<mungojerry> alpen, peanuts, anything remotely nutty causes serious issues!
<mungojerry> otherwise i'd munch on that stuff all day long ...covered in chocolate of course
<mungojerry> mmm peanut M&Ms
<brobostigon> mungojerry: anything remotly nutty fires my allergies off, and messes with my immunesystem.
 * mungojerry can't eat anything containing chilli either :(
<mungojerry> causes serious issues :(
 * brobostigon loves chilli :)
 * brobostigon hugs mungojerry 
<mungojerry> me too. food is no fun  without it
<mungojerry> mrs MJ needs to test my food at buffets etc
<mungojerry> ;P
<mungojerry> i can still eat some chicken tikka masala though..the y don't always contain chilli
<brobostigon> ah,
<mungojerry> dietary requirements suck
<brobostigon> especially when it my allergies, and theymess with my immune system.
<mungojerry> brobostigon:  what are you allergic to?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: you name it, dairy, fish, shell fish, somekinds of acid fruit and veg, nuts, all artificial fabrics and all artificial food colours and preservitives, thats a start.
<mungojerry> since birth, or more recently?
<brobostigon> since birth.
<mungojerry> sucks :(
<brobostigon> oh, i forgot eggs.
<brobostigon> and that dodgy preservitive, some companies STILL put in beer, and are allowed to. :(
<mungojerry> lager or ale?
 * screen-x is allergic to lyx
<brobostigon> both.
<brobostigon> mungojerry: its a chemical.
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: isn't "lyx" pronounces "Lice"
<mungojerry> ethanol :P
<brobostigon> mungojerry: no, haha. i justhave to be careful whatbeers i have,
<bigcalm> mungojerry: home brew :D
<mungojerry> 2 beers at my old local used to give you a massive headache
<mungojerry> we used to blame it on the pipes not getting cleaned or something
<bigcalm> EPA gives me massive wind
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: I thought it was pronounced "lick" as laytex is pronounced "laytech"
<mungojerry> needless to say, it wasn't my local for long
<brobostigon> the uk needs a law like this,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot , then there wouldnt be anyproblems anymore.
<shauno> no they don't :/
<brobostigon> we do.
<shauno> you make it illegal to put honey in ale, and you'll make me really sad.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: You should try meade ;)
<brobostigon> i will make it illegal to put dodgy chemicals in ale.
<mungojerry> becks and lowenbrau give/gave me headaches
<MartijnVdS> mead*
<mungojerry> i had to stop drinking beer because my body suddenly didn't like it anymore
<shauno> MartijnVdS: I make mead :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ah, so you've tried it :P
<brobostigon> mungojerry: not good, :(
<shauno> mostly because I'm lazy, and it's a whole lot less complicated than beer
<mungojerry> corona would give massive stomach upset all of a sudden
<shauno> heat it, cool it, add yeast, and try your best to leave it alone for as long as you can.
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 3rd 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Beer and nuts.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: hm, sounds like something I could do even :)
<mungojerry> anyone use gpodder? Ubuntu UK podcast not appearing in the feed even though http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/feed/ in the broser shows it
<shauno> it is amazingly simple.  the only difficult bits are cleaning the kitchen first, and resisting temptation for 6-12 months
<shauno> (if you're built like me, moving 5 gallons around the house can be 'entertaining' too)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I have two beer brewing brothers
<popey> mungojerry: ooo, let me have a look
<MartijnVdS> shauno: does it need heat, or just "not excessively cold"
<mungojerry> popey:  S04E00 is there
<mungojerry> not 01 though
<popey> http://feeds.feedburner.com/UbuntuUkPodcastOgg-high
<popey> http://feeds.feedburner.com/UbuntuUkPodcastMp3-high
<popey> http://feeds.feedburner.com/UbuntuUkPodcastMp3-low
<popey> http://feeds.feedburner.com/UbuntuUkPodcastMp3-low
<popey> use one/all of those
<shauno> MartijnVdS: it keeps about room temperature.  cold won't hurt it, but will slow it down
<mungojerry> popey: mp3-high is working, thanks
<mungojerry> weird...
<shauno> I have a little dangly heater thing that goes in mine so I don't have to remember to heat the house in the winter
<mungojerry> popey: worth being aware of since gpodder is quite popular..even deleting the podcast and re-adding for http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/feed/ didn't work
<popey> why did you add that feed?
<popey> its not one thats listed on the site
<mungojerry> really? :(
<mungojerry> popey: even since early last season?
<mungojerry> maybe i was just being a numpty and guessed it
<popey> :)
<popey> well, the bummer is the browser will offer that as an rss feed
<popey> thats never been one of the feeds we've advertised though
<mungojerry> i guess that's what happened
<popey> not sure how to fix that
<popey> i could grep the logs for that url and see if many people use it
<mungojerry> i'm on static IP if that helps
<mungojerry> although most other episodes appear so it is mostly working ;)
<screen-x> popey: piwik \o/
 * mungojerry wonders if he missed any others :(
<screen-x> also should be reasonably easy to hack link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="Ubuntu Podcast from the UK LoCo team RSS Feed" href="http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/feed/" />
<screen-x> out of the template..
<shauno> does feedburner not pull from there?
<popey> no
<popey> it pulls from /category/<format>-<quality>/feed/
<popey> screen-x: i suspect that the link rel is generated and would break for the other feeds if we mangled it
<shauno> golden.  I wouldn't hack wordpress up, just screw with the mod_rewrite rules a bit to point /feed/ at a specific category
<popey> hmm
<popey> we did used to do something like that
<popey> if people came directly to the category feeds, we redirected to feedburner :)
<shauno> or easier yet.  just make /feed/ exist
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/574949/
<popey> thats what we used to do
<popey> it does exist :)
<shauno> really? most of wordpress's paths don't exist on the filesystem
<popey> \o/ fixed
<popey> ok, i had a different understanding of "exist" :)
<popey> but its fixed now :)
<popey> mungojerry: can you test that original feed again?
<shauno> cool.
<mungojerry> sure...2 secs
<shauno> rewrite's easier to futz with because it won't explode next time you need to update wordpress :)
<mungojerry> popey:  \o/ huzzah
<popey> :)
<popey> my fault entirely, sorry
<mungojerry> thanks. although i will behave and use mp3-high from now on :)
<popey> well, /feed/ gets you the ogg high :)
<popey> so up to you really :)
<gord> hum, could you upgrade an old ubuntu release from one release to the next using just the alternate/install cd's? i forget
<popey> yes
<directhex> alternate? yes
<directhex> use apt-cdrom
<gord> someone linked me to a youtube video of someone upgrading from msdos 5 through windows 1 -> windows 7, has me curious :)
<mungojerry> popey: wow, ogg high is 50% size of mp3 high?
<MartijnVdS> gord: try Ubuntu 4.10 -> 11.04 :)
<gord> MartijnVdS, thats the plan
<screen-x> gord: and save VM snapshots along the way, may come in handy.
<kieran> afternoon all :))
<screen-x> so it is.. afternoon kieran
 * TheOpenSourcerer is getting annoyed replying to incorrect statements on the mailing list. Thinks about moar coffee.
 * DJones notices that there is a -uk meeting tonight
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, is it in that thread that is so large that the subject line goes outside of the bounds of its field when threading is enabled? because i generally stay the hell away from that kind of thing ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> gord: "Re: Strange file sharing problem"
<popey> mungojerry: good isnt it :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: Thanks for that reminder. Someone is chairing it
 * popey points gord and MartijnVdS at http://people.canonical.com/~kirkland/Museum/
 * DJones assumes that the someone is TheOpenSourcerer 
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was sure I put an event in the calendar for that... But it aint there.
<screen-x> Does anyone maintain a google calendar for -uk irc meetings?
<popey> no, but the podcast has one
<popey> we could add meetings to that
<caulkz> anyone personally recommend a webcam for windows7 and ubuntu maverick ??
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/calendar/
<popey> caulkz: logitech pro 9000
<caulkz> cheers alan
<popey> np
<caulkz> cost?
<caulkz> soz, just googled lol
<popey> caulkz: http://popey.me/eH0jMj
<popey> :)
<screen-x> ahah
<screen-x> popey never misses an opportunity ;-)
<caulkz> you nerd LOLz
<popey> :)
<popey> http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=160209
<popey> ooo
<caulkz> bk
<directhex> popey, zomglol?
<caulkz> changed clients :/
<caulkz> omfg?? lol
<directhex> tag=sapstuffcom08 ?
<popey> tis me
<caulkz> bought a sphere mp a few yrs back, now logitech refuses to support it - cost me Â£80 damn it :/
<screen-x> I guessed so, but private whois ;-)
<popey> expired domain
<shauno> that makes "Registrar: Internet.bs Corp." slightly more entertaining
<popey> ha
<caulkz> byee
<BigRedS> anyone know of a non-xorg.conf way of disabling middle-click paste?
<shauno> xmodmap should be able to do mouse buttons
<shauno> with your non-xorg.conf restriction, I'd probably start there, or with a soldering iron
<screen-x> I was poking around in ccsm, but got distracted by various effects.
<shauno> dunno if you could tell it not to use m3 for paste, but you could tell it that m3 is really m4, so it's free to bind to something else
<brobostigon> is there a way, for me to tether my android to my n800 via bluetooth, so i can use my internet from my android onmy n800. if that mkes sense.
<popey> brobostigon: why via bluetooth and not wifi?
<brobostigon> popey: my g1 cant be a wifi hotspot, justwont do it,
<kazade> BigRedS, this doesn't use xorg.conf.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Input#Example:%20Disabling%20middle-mouse%20button%20paste%20on%20a%20scrollwheel%20mouse
<popey> odd
<popey> brobostigon: what version of android?
<brobostigon> popey: 2.2.1
<popey> i thought wifi sharing was an option in 2.2?
<brobostigon> popey: i cant see nor find an option to do it,
 * popey gets his hero out
<kazade> brobostigon, try searching the market for "barnacle tether"
<popey> or anetshare
<popey> chaps...
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/calendar/
<brobostigon> popey: no matches, on market search.
<popey> can you see the loco meeting in that calendar?
<screen-x> yep :)
<screen-x> thanks :)
<brobostigon> kazade: found that,
<BigRedS> kazade: whoop! Thanks!
<screen-x> popey: with that and teh ical feed from the loco directory, calendaring is sorted :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: The map link is broken though http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en-GB&q=%23ubuntu-uk-meeting%20on%20Freenode%20IRC ;-)
 * screen-x imagines streetview for irc
 * brobostigon gets kazade a beer, :)
<popey> haha
<popey> fixed TheOpenSourcerer :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: That's not a fix, that's a redaction ;-)
<popey> :D
<popey> patches welcome
<popey> oh, hang on
<brobostigon> yay, wifi tethering if working, :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> "What is it that a man may call the greatest things in life?"
<TheOpenSourcerer> - "Hot water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper."
<TheOpenSourcerer> -- Cohen the Barbarian in conversation with Discworld nomads (Terry Pratchett, The Light Fantastic)
<gord> apple really have a run for their money these days huh http://images.tipb.com/images/stories/2011/03/ipad_2_xoom_optimus-pad_galaxy-tab_touchpad_playbook_specs.jpg
<shauno> apparently 90% of the market don't care so much about specs
<popey> gord. no.
<directhex> shauno, yep!
<shauno> I think it's fair to say I don't like Excel :(
<shauno> they've even hidden the About box to make googling more difficult.
<AlanBell> screen-x: popey there is a loco teams calendar too http://ubuntu-news.org/calendars/loco/
<popey> indeed
<screen-x> AlanBell: and http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-uk/ical
<AlanBell> ETOOMANYCALENDARS
 * DJones read that as Too many candles and wondered whose birthday it was
<AlanBell> DJones: on Saturday TheOpenSourcerer will have an ETOOMANYCANDLES error
<DJones> AlanBell: Oh Dear, I won't ask the number of candles, but I suspect I'm only a handful at most behind him
<TheOpenSourcerer> I will be expecting 46 Candles :-)
<bigcalm> Is that in hex?
<bigcalm> ;)
<MadLeomon> <_< I probably got this wrong but I'm thinking that would be 70 if converted back to something decimal based
<bigcalm> I'd be pleased in a geeky way if I were to get a cake with 20 candles on it this year
<bigcalm> But as I'm the only geek in the village^Whouse, the amusement would be lost in the explination
<bigcalm> :|
<mungojerry> bigcalm: or a cake like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/beelzebozo/2125919810/
<bigcalm> Hehe, cute
<mungojerry> lol or this one http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyberslayer/216346251/
<nigelb> oh, cute cakes :)
<gord> good article :) https://lwn.net/Articles/430686/ (for those that have lwn accounts)
<bigcalm> HAha
<popey> that is excellent
<TheOpenSourcerer> DO NOT BUY ME CAKE.
<nigelb> once in a while I use lwn
<TheOpenSourcerer> Buy me Curry or Beer.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> On that note must dash.
<shauno> hopefully there'll be pics of how many candles you manage to fit in a curry
<mungojerry> lwn is the website design from the 90s
<nigelb> gord: that was a good read :)
<nigelb> mungojerry: lwn isn't not about how it looks ;)
<nigelb> think baout reddit design :p
<nigelb> *about
<mungojerry> nigelb: however i always think i'm reading an out of date article
<nigelb> mungojerry: lol
<gord> yeah, honestly, i prefer websites that look like that
<nigelb> gord: same here
<nigelb> too much flashy can get irritating
<mungojerry> anyone subscribe to paper magazines?
<mungojerry> i have a monthly sub to  linux  magazine
<nigelb> I don't subscribe, but I buy often
<bigcalm> I have a subscription to cosmo (for my gf)
<gord> i don't like paper magazines, they clutter up the place. get a few subscriptions on my kindle though
<bigcalm> I used to subscribe to MicroUser and then AcornUser
<daubers> Afternoon
<bigcalm> Morning
 * daubers eats lunch
<bigcalm> popey: have you noticed that your upload bandwidth has increased?
<popey> hmm
<popey> how would I know?
<bigcalm> Just checked and I'm getting a smidgin under 2mbs
<bigcalm> speedtest.net
<popey> I am not at home :)
<daubers> They lie!
<popey> will try tonight
<bigcalm> Well then :P
<popey> i might rsync something somewhere to test it
<bigcalm> I don't recall having that much upload bandwidth before
<popey> like minecraft maps :)
<bigcalm> daubers: it's a good estimate
<daubers> bigcalm: ISPs prioritise traffic to those places
<bigcalm> Ha
<bigcalm> Well then
<bigcalm> :S
<popey> i dont think that matters
<popey> if all you want to know is 'has my upper limit gone up'
 * bigcalm sends a 66MB tarball to his bytemark account
<shauno> quite some years ago now, my cable broke in a manner where I had my advertised speed .. in both directions.  boy was I popular that month.
<bigcalm> Haha
<Oli``> Anybody know if there's a hide-all-text-layers button in Photoshop?
<Oli``> I've got about 3000 layers that a designer has scattered all over a document that I need to hide :(
<popey> ooooo
<popey> 100% 2187KB   2.1MB/s   00:01
<Oli``> popey: Have you had any luck the with the latest (released yesterday on nvnews) nvidia beta driver on Natty? I remember seeing you on twitter with a ton of issues
<bigcalm> http://myrant.net/dump/upload_test.png
<bigcalm> 100%   25KB  25.4KB/s   00:00
<popey> Oli``: i dont use the driver from them
<popey> Oli``: i only use the packaged one
<bigcalm> Hehe, copy/pasted wrong file
<bigcalm> 100%   66MB 248.0KB/s   04:32
<Oli``> popey: I just meant it's worth a shot if there's a system you want to use and cant
<popey> ah
<popey> the current nvidia driver is fine thanks
<popey> except for EDID errors on my desktop :(
<Oli``> Yeah EDID never seems to work as well as it should
<popey> bug 725600
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 725600 in nvidia-graphics-drivers (Ubuntu) "nvidia EDID issue, wrong resolution selected" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/725600
<popey> used to work fine
<bigcalm> And download: 100%   66MB   2.4MB/s   00:28
<gord> i still have the old xorg :)
<gord> hoping alpha 3 will work nicely, gonna reinstall. my system is so broken right now
<daubers> I took the nvidia driver off my laptop, was preventing it from running gnome headless
<daubers> s/laptop/revo
<DJones> Oooh, Blade Runner prequel/sequel possibly being made http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/03/us-bladerunner-idUSTRE7220AQ20110303
<popey> daubers: my revo runs headless
<bigcalm> Oh no :(
<daubers> popey: With the nvidia driver?
 * Obtuse sighs.
<popey> yes daubers
<Obtuse> I truly hate it when Firefox craps out when I had lots of tabs open.
<popey> ii  nvidia-current                         260.19.06-0ubuntu1                     NVIDIA binary Xorg driver, kernel module and VDPAU library
<bigcalm> Obtuse: this is why I use chrome
<Obtuse> Do you restore and hope that nothing was a POST?
<shauno> DJones: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/532297/Back-to-the-what.jpg
<bigcalm> If one tab dies, the whole browser doesn't
<Obtuse> bigcalm: Is it more reliable?
<Obtuse> Oh, that's cool. Better separation of tabs?
<bigcalm> Each tab is its own process that has no communication with others
<bigcalm> shauno: heh
<DJones> shauno: Thats about right, along with Hawaii 5-0, Upstairs Downstairs, True Grit and many, many more others that I can't think of off the top of my head
<nigelb> Obtuse: and if one does, you can kill it individually
<shauno> not mine, but immediately sprung to mind as somewhat apropros
<nigelb> lol
<Obtuse> Right... I'll give Chrome a go.
<bigcalm> \o/
<popey> \o/ ?
<bigcalm> Being a web dev, I have to have all browsers handy. Find that chrome is the most relyable now
<bigcalm> /o\
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraft/gmap/?lat=0.533885&lng=0.465881&zoom=7
<popey> \o/
<popey> train station is taking shape :)
<shauno> I really only use ff when I actually need the kitchen sink now
<daubers> Hmmm... mine complains taht it can't find a monitor and doesn't start gdm
<nigelb> bigcalm: same here :)
<bigcalm> popey: looks like the lockness monster
<nigelb> Nessie?
<popey> :)
<shauno> if you're doing what I think you're doing with the roof, I like it :)
<popey> in other news, chrome on windows seems broken
<popey> if i alt tab away from it, the window I alt-tab to, doesnt redraw
<screen-x> popey: how?
<popey> unless thats not chrome but putty or video driver issue
<daubers> "in other news, windows seems broken" <- Fixed that for you
<nigelb> daubers: haha, good one
<shauno> popey: I get that from time to time, but it redraws *slowly*.  the whole screen sits still (no cursor, etc) while it fills out line by line
<popey> no, switching _away_ from chrome
<shauno> it'd almost be funny/retro to watch, if I wasn't into multitasking
<bigcalm> WFM
<daubers> chrome has had an alarming number of issues on a fw of my machines :(
<popey> the line by line thing is because chrome is a massive bitmap and that got swapped out
<DJones> popey: I can check for you, I've got chrome & putty running in front of me
<popey> 11.0.686.1
<bigcalm> Ooo, there's a new version. I'm currently on 9.0.597.98
 * bigcalm now expects the world to fall apart
<nigelb> In the time that we were talking, chrome went up one version.
<DJones> popey: I can't see any issues Alt-tabbing to any other other running apps, everything looks fine for me, although I'm on Chrome 9.0.597.107
 * nigelb expects the world to fall apart if it doesn't
<popey> only happened recently
<popey> i expect its an 11. thing
<DJones> I suspect my version is the bog standard stable release
<bigcalm> Humm. Mine is now on 9.0.597.107. I don't have 11?
<popey> developer version
<bigcalm> Ah
<DJones> Just looking at the change channels, when did the "Canary build" come available?
<popey> http://twitpic.com/45oqqj
<bigcalm> That's your fault then :P
<popey> thats what it does
<popey> thats only showing lots because I typed the version
<DJones> "This build is for people who want to help test Google Chrome and contribute to its development.  The Canary build is updated even more frequently than the Dev channel and is not tested before being released."
<popey> before that all i saw was the window border
<bigcalm> Yay, pretty in pink :)
<bigcalm> Talk about overloaded system :S
<bigcalm> Are you ignoring somebody on skype? ;)
<popey> haha
<popey> 5 birthday notifications
<bigcalm> Ah
 * bigcalm spies a modem connection
<bigcalm> How odd
<popey> yeah, very
<popey> never used that
<popey> see, sabdfl is right, the "system tray"* gets abused
<popey> *Note: It's not called a system tray
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Notification area?
<DJones> "Overcrowded area"
<nigelb> lol
<bigcalm> I like the windows 7 has all but 4 icons hidden
<shauno> for once, I'm with sabdfl on that one.  nuke the whole thing from orbit.
<popey> indeed
<popey> i do not care (for example) that my disk encryption software is running
<popey> or that my email client is open
<mungojerry> bigcalm: just catching up on the last hour... i used to get electron user, then acorn user :)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> mungojerry: good show :)
<mungojerry> bigcalm: did you have an archimedes?
 * mungojerry always thought that Acorn -> Linux is a natural progression
<shauno> risc to x86 is anything but natural
<mungojerry> lol yeah, but the acorn enthusiast community is at least most similar i feel
<mungojerry> maybe it's the underdog thing..we all knew that acorn was the best, but wasn't reflected in market share
<bigcalm> mungojerry: 2 x BBC Model B, BBC Model B+, Acorn Archimedes 420 (I think)
<bigcalm> I would have loved to have had an A5000. Ho hum :)
 * mungojerry had an A3000
<mungojerry> still got it somewhere
<mungojerry> plus the electron
<mungojerry> games like chocks away and arcelite were just class
<bigcalm> ARGH
<bigcalm> Just caught myself being sucked into wikipedia
<shauno> if you hit the random page link, it's time to admit you have a problem
<shauno> if not, you can brush it off as harmless experimentation :)
<screen-x> shauno: its also a question of how many pages away from an on topic page you are..
<screen-x> grr our ISP are renumbering :(
<HazRPG> hi all
<bigcalm> Afternoon
<gord> popey, hehe @ guy complaining about ubuntu members getting lwn subs :D
<popey> I know
<popey> plum
<popey> he's a troll
<popey> I see they're discussing it in #techrights
<jonsaint> hi all. when is the next ubuntu out? im fairly new to ubuntu and i was told new releases are usually twice a year???????
<gord> jonsaint, yup, next one is in april
<gord> april 28th
<jonsaint> does that one have a name and whats the difference between this one and the new one?
<bigcalm> 11.04
<gord> there are always so many differences between releases, i could never list them, the next release will be 11.04 (year.month) and is using hte codename natty narwhal
<jonsaint> is there a website i can check out to see whats new in the 11.04 version?
<bigcalm> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes # but only once it's been released
<jonsaint> ah ok. many thanks for all the info
<gord> jonsaint, http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/natty/alpha2 was the new features in the alpha 2 of natty, if you wait a few hours then hopefully alpha 3 will be out and you can read updated features there
<gord> its still being made though
<czajkows1i> TheOpenSourcerer: we WON!!!! had to log on to poke you
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkows1i: Pee off.
<bigcalm> ARGH. It's a cz<tab>
<czajkows1i> TheOpenSourcerer: but we beat ye at cricket
<czajkows1i> now onto rugby
<popey> haha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah.
<czajkows1i> fecking cold today only 20 and over cast
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkows1i: After what we did to the French?
<AlanBell> back to the beach you!
<czajkows1i> rented a car and drove all over the island
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkows1i: Where are you?
<czajkows1i> fuerteventura
<mungojerry> hmm this android malware thing is getting bad. i feel sad that i effectively own a phone that is the Windows of the mobile world
<gord> oh come now, its not *that* bad
<TheOpenSourcerer> If the paddies can only just scrape past the Scots, you'll have ne chance with the brits. Even at Lansdowne Road
<TheOpenSourcerer> mungojerry: Just don't install crapware ;-)
<mungojerry> even from the real android market
<czajkows1i> TheOpenSourcerer: if we cop on and make less mistakes and dont give away penatlies ...
<mungojerry> mind you who can stop someone putting that into apple and windows market too (if Windows has any apps yet)
<TheOpenSourcerer> And kiss the blarney stone three time...
<Cepheus> I don't feel that the issue with android is so much the marketplace as it is the unrestricted access to APIs
<Cepheus> s/don't//
<TheOpenSourcerer> England 3 3 0 0 102 41 61 11 6
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ireland   3 2 0 1 56   54 2    7   4
<DJones> mungojerry: Have you looked at this page http://blog.mylookout.com/2011/03/security-alert-malware-found-in-official-android-market-droiddream/
<DJones> mungojerry: It gives a list of the apps affected, some of which definately sound as though they're NSFW
<Cepheus> I feel that certain sensitive features (calling, SMS, device IMEI and IMSI) should only be allowed by dev certificates or vetted developers a la symbian
<HazRPG> bigcalm: heh, yeah I've recently found myself just typing cz<tab> too :P
<Cepheus> or at least doing thorough checks on applications using these APIs
<HazRPG> czajkows1i: congrats on the victory :)
<czajkows1i> HazRPG: oi hit the tab key!
<mungojerry> DJones: not all are NSFW, and obfuscated malware can reside in any apps..the fact that lookout is required is a bit more of a windowsism
<HazRPG> czajkowski: I did :P
<DJones> mungojerry: yes, I was wondering, maybe the Lookout app is infected :)
<Cepheus> A lot of them are actually pirated versions of paid apps, I hear.
<mungojerry> Cepheus: even worse, since some people are saying Chess? i instaleld that, how do i know if it's the bad one..etc
<mungojerry> DJones: even if not, lookout certainly own your phone anyway
<Cepheus> mungojerry: Google should really inform those who've been affected by these applications
<mungojerry> yeah, they did a remote wipe i hear?
<mungojerry> remote uninstall i should say
<HazRPG> Cepheus: there's an infected app?
<mungojerry> but what if your phone is rooted?
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<HazRPG> mungojerry has a good point
<HazRPG> afternoonings mr brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: afternoonings :)
<mungojerry> and is the confidence iphone users have in the apple store worse because they somehow think they are safer because of apple's infamous policy of app types
<Cepheus> the likelyhood is less. but there have been notable instances where things have slipped through the net
<HazRPG> I think it would be funny if ubuntu started making their own android variant :)
<mungojerry> ubuntu mobile
<Myrtti> I wish Gingerbread would've included OpenVPN support :-(
<HazRPG> mungojerry: I would root my phone for that :)
<mungojerry> HazRPG: they were working on ubuntu mobile before tablet came along
<HazRPG> mungojerry: wow really :D
 * HazRPG has just found the pdf that documents it
<Cepheus> as a Maemo user I have to say I prefer it to android... but it's a dead road now that Nokia and Microsoft are bedmates
<brobostigon> Cepheus: i do believe they were working on meego to go onto the n900.
<HazRPG> Cepheus: Hmm, yeah I know what you mean.
<Myrtti> they are still
<HazRPG> brobostigon, Myrtti: Indeed I've seen that too.
<Myrtti> I'd preferred Maemo over MeeGo ;-)
<Cepheus> brobostigon: It's as a developer device though. installing meego is not supported by nokia or intel, and the handset UX is nowhere near ready for production use
<brobostigon> Cepheus: i didnt know  that, ok. interesting.
<Myrtti> .deb > .rpm
<Cepheus> yes, delicious dpkg
<directhex> .deb != .rpm
<directhex> rpm is smarter at some things. perhaps too smart
<HazRPG> I'm not a huge fan of rpm, I've had more problems with it than I can count
<screen-x> I am a huge fan of apt, I've had more problems with it than I can count
<HazRPG> screen-x: yeah I prefer apt for most things
<Cepheus> the problem with RPM is not so much the format as the fact that mandriva, novell and red hat all use completely different file names, dependency and package names and file paths
<Cepheus> this combined with the windows mentality of "if it has the right extension it will run" means that you get very stupid dependency resolution
<HazRPG> Ooo, I've just compiled my first ever .sid :D
<brobostigon>  .sid ?
<HazRPG> Its not great, but I still did it all on my own :)
<bigcalm> El?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah it's a music format - made using GoatTracker
<HazRPG> good old c64 :)
<Cepheus> or worse, installing works but you get odd segfaults or errors from LD
<bigcalm> Dave2: wakey wakey
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, i see,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: basically synth music using an emulated version of c64's SID
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, ok, interesting.
<HazRPG> Sound Interface Device
<brobostigon> ah.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64/Untitled-v0.0.1.sid
 * brobostigon looks
<brobostigon> will vlc do it?
<HazRPG> should do
<screen-x> HazRPG: heh totem played that fine :)
<brobostigon> vlc does everything.
<HazRPG> I play it through totem
<HazRPG> screen-x: indeed :)
<HazRPG> screen-x: btw, its very short so totem will just loop it endlessly
<Myrtti> in other news: HazRPG, brobostigon, Cepheus http://www.muktware.com/n/03/2011/798/meego-running-n900
<Myrtti> well, other and "other"
<mungojerry> HazRPG: good to know that...after 30 secs i was expecting the drum beat to kick in..
<HazRPG> Myrtti: ooo, shiny :)
<screen-x> HazRPG: at uni I had a to write a synth using matrices in matlab.
<HazRPG> screen-x: nice :)
<HazRPG> mungojerry: Still haven't figured how to make that instrument yet... otherwise it would have :P
<Cepheus> Myrtti: oooh. nice find. thank you.
<BigRedS> oggcamp2011 - are any details public yet?
<popey> no
<AlanBell> BigRedS: yes, there will be one
<mungojerry> got an orange peeler, :) http://www.lakeland.co.uk/orange-peelers/F/product/6792
<mungojerry> makes you want to buy oranges just to peel them
<BigRedS> Ah, fair enough. I was just wondering if i'd missed them or something
<screen-x> oooh! I used to use those home... all nostalgic now
<HazRPG> mungojerry: Don't know if you've ever used a tracker before on the c64, but its basically just hex codes placed around on the interface in various places to make sound
<TheOpenSourcerer> I love this spam I'm getting from the BSA - It *so* supports Free Software. I feel a blog post coming on... http://twitpic.com/45pjq3
<bigcalm> Grr
<brobostigon> is anyone else getting ubuntu one server disconects, inside natty with todays updates?
<HazRPG> I couldn't get the c64 emulator to work that's in the repo though - guessing I'm missing a BIOS or something... but GoatTracker worked perfectly ootb
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I investigated joining the BSA a while back
<gord> brobostigon, yup
<gord> brobostigon, it also has been telling me that its 92% complete for about a week, every ten minutes or so
<brobostigon> gord: ok, i am not alone then, thats good, yes, same as here.
<popey> maybe you need a new xorg
<HazRPG> mungojerry: mmm oranges
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Did they invite you in with open arms?
<Obtuse> TheOpenSourcerer: Those adverts are unbelievably cynical.
<mungojerry> most humans peel bananas the wrong way too
<bigcalm> The correct way being?
<HazRPG> mungojerry: there's a correct way?
<screen-x> like the monkeys do!
<shauno> please tell me it involves trained monkeys
<shauno> bah, too slow
<HazRPG> bite the head off first?
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: can't remember how much it cost
<mungojerry> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBJV56WUDng
 * HazRPG loads up his sng of his sid :)
<mungojerry> makes life easy
<HazRPG> I wish my Sharp MZ-700 had a tracker, I would have had loads of these on tape by now
<HazRPG> somehow missed the c64 craze
<bigcalm> WOW
<shauno> you missed a few of them.  there's a whole scene running trackers on original gameboys
<mungojerry> when you have a baby boy in one hand and need to efficiently peel the banana without squishing , digging nails or bruusing, the monkey way works every time
<HazRPG> shauno: oh wait, yeah I had a tracker on the gameboy, wasn't that impressive though
<shauno> HazRPG: 8bc.org.  if you can ignore the assault upon your eyeballs, there's a *lot* there
<HazRPG> wow thankfully I stored that on dropbox... just overwrote my sng!
 * HazRPG restores older version
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, I was a bigger fan of 8bitpeople
<HazRPG> shauno: wow, didn't realise the gb could do that - guess I was too young to have a good play with it
 * mungojerry asks for permission to speak frankly
<brobostigon> mungojerry: think about the CoC though. keep that in mind.
 * mungojerry checks the CoC
<mungojerry> i have a question about life:
<gord> the universe, and everything?
<TheOpenSourcerer> 42
<brobostigon> life, the universe and everything,*
<mungojerry> why, in every company i have ever worked in, is there at least one preson who clearly doesn't know how to use a toilet?
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha.
<Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer, I just got the BSA spam to my work address aswell
<mungojerry> it's always puzzled me, what is their own home like
<Myrtti> I would ask the same, but I've only worked in three places, of which in one I was the one cleaning toilets and in one I work from home
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi Daviey - Gosh you are still alive
<Myrtti> so I guess it leaves only one company
<mungojerry> and it's true there too Myrtti right?
<Myrtti> factory workers are the worst
<Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer, sadly.
<kirrus> Daviey: you'd rather be dead? :/
<Daviey> kirrus, Nah!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Daviey: How's the family?
 * mungojerry slaps the uupc onto the mp3 player , giving the dilemma, read important documents on the train..or listen to mp3
<Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer, pretty good...
<brobostigon> mungojerry: uupc anyday, :)
<popey> +1
<DJones> mungojerry: Multitask, do both
<popey> mungojerry: dont forget to shout out the quiz answers on the train!
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> :)
<mungojerry> ooh i forgot the quiz
<mungojerry> definitely uupc
 * AlanBell is writing a quiz
 * brobostigon thinks about wht to make for tea. 
 * Myrtti thinks about a perry
 * TheOpenSourcerer listens to Mrs TheOpenSourcerer make his dinner in the background.
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders where the instructions are for meeting chairing and REMINDS everyone about the meeting this evening 9:00pm UK time.
 * brobostigon thinks about a beer.
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Meeting/Guidelines
<TheOpenSourcerer> TY AlanBell
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not many agenda items then.
<AlanBell> I am about to add one
<TheOpenSourcerer> Actions Recorded: None
 * brobostigon thinks about what to do with pork steaks.
<bigcalm> Eat them
<brobostigon> bigcalm: i was thinking about somerhing more constructive than that kind of answer.
<ali1234> cook them, then eat them
<ali1234> otherwise you'll get worms
<TheOpenSourcerer> brobostigon: I would marinate them in a strong sauce of soy, vinegar and honey for a while, then grill them. Then reduce the marinade to a thick syrupy sauce then serve with Noodles and some stir fried veg
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: sounds good, :)
<bigcalm> brobostigon: greece an overn proof dish, add the steaks. Cover with a packet of sage and onion stuffing. Cover with tinfoil and cook for half an hour on about 175C (fan oven). Remove the tinfoil and cook for a futher half an hour at a slightly reduced heat
<brobostigon> i dodnt have soy though, i do have some balsamic.
<bigcalm> You'll have suculent pork and crispy stuffing
<brobostigon> bigcalm: sounds good also, :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Would you add any liquid to the sage & onion stuffing mix before cooking?
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: :P
 * brobostigon  likes TheOpenSourcerer's idea better though.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<bigcalm> GF and I get 4 steaks from our butcher now and then. Makes 2 good meals
 * brobostigon dissappears to do part of the preperation.
<TheOpenSourcerer> You can also put the steaks in a roasting dish, pour over a tin of chopped toms, then add the Sage & Onion Stuffing mix and follow bigcalm 's instructions. Then you have a nice sauce too :-;
<bigcalm> There is that
<bigcalm> Might do that next time actually
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<bigcalm> Easy fried onions in a tin - magic!
<ali1234> fry the pork chops then make a sauce in the pan using vinegar and pineapple juice. serve with carrots and mash
<TheOpenSourcerer> Eww.
<ali1234> it's niiiiiice
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pineapple and dead animal do not mix IMHO.
<ali1234> sweet and sour?
<bigcalm> Not a fan of fresh sweet & sour meals then?
<DJones> I'm afraid pineapple doesn't really mix with anything
<TheOpenSourcerer> I never got the pineapple on gammon steak thing either.
<bigcalm> Seems that opinion is divided here
<lazarus_> hi all
<bigcalm> Peaches with gammon...
<bigcalm> Hi
<TheOpenSourcerer> I do like Sweet and Sour yes > "I would marinate them in a strong sauce of soy, vinegar and honey "
<DJones> Maybe I'm biased because of buffets which always seem to have a piece of pineapple and cheese on a cocktail stick
<popey> 17:22:11 < TheOpenSourcerer> I never got the pineapple on gammon steak thing either.
<popey> there's enzymes in pineapple that help break down the fibres in the meat
<bigcalm> DJones: you go to the wrong buffets then ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> There's enzymes in my stomach that do not taste of pineapple and do a great job too :-)
<bigcalm> popey: could be why if you have too much fresh pineapple, it can give you uslars
<popey> hahah
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: hehe
<bigcalm> So you just don't like pineapple?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pineapple is nice as a dessert.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And I also like Pineapple Cubes
<TheOpenSourcerer> The hardboiled sweets
<ali1234> what about cheese and pineapple on a stick?
<bigcalm> I want a pineapple fritter now!
<bigcalm> ali1234: yellow with yellow?
<ali1234> um, yeah i guess?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can handle cheese and pineapple although it's not my favourite combination.
<bigcalm> And on a pizza?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cheese <> dead Animal
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - Pineapple on a Pizza is the Devil's work. Of that I am in no doubt.
<TheOpenSourcerer> All this talk of food is making me dribble.
 * brobostigon returns from preperation, and will leave the pork to marinade untill after the simpsons.
<bigcalm> Being on a diet, this conversation is horrible
<TheOpenSourcerer> Diets, schmiets.
<bigcalm> Well, reduced food intake
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<bigcalm> Is a better discription
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't really like that idea.
<bigcalm> Hehe
<popey> i want beer
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's probably why I'm such a lardy ;-)
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: I've lost over a stone since end of Jan
<Myrtti> mmmmmm bacon, bluecheese and pineapple pizza
<Myrtti> OM NOMNOM
<bigcalm> popey: plenty of Spitfire over here ;)
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: will an hour in the marinade be enough?
<TheOpenSourcerer> brobostigon: I should think so yes.
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: :)
<bigcalm> I wish my gf liked blue cheese and olives
<bigcalm> Instead I have to eat them on my own, which feels like secret eating
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: But Hawaiian is the best pizza (Chees, ham, and pineapple) incase they call it something more exotic down souff
<jacobw> hmm olives
<jacobw> what could be more exotic than 'hawaiian'
<brobostigon> margerita is the best, so simple, but also so hard to get right, :)
<gord> 'venusian'
<bigcalm_> Oh ffs
<jpds> STAY CALM.
<jpds> bigcalm: You looked cute with a tail.
<bigcalm> o.O
<AlanBell> handy service for web designers http://placekitten.com/
<bigcalm> HAHA!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Olives are great. One of my favourite snacks and a very useful ingredient.
<TheOpenSourcerer> A Hawaiian pizza is like having an enema.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: now an olive is the plaything of the Devil sent to torment normal folk
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right. I am now officially starving. Will now go and pester Mrs TheOpenSourcerer
<bigcalm> AlanBell: that is the best thing I've seen today!
<BigRedS> That's awesome!
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's really cool. HTF did you find that AlanBell ?
<AlanBell> http://twitter.com/#!/JamesFirth/status/43362670434459648
<AlanBell> Farnham chap, goes to the tweetup type things
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes - I follow him. Just wasn't watching gwibber.
<Myrtti> awwwww
<danfish> hah - 'placekitten.com : Site Blocked - not of course use to NHS business!'
 * AlanBell wonders if placechicken.com is available
<danfish> s/course/core
<AlanBell> danfish: A quick and simple service for getting pictures of kittens for use as placeholders in your designs or code. Just put your image size (width & height) after our URL and you'll get a placeholder.
<popey> bah
<gord> i suggested we use that in unity for when we are waiting on the design team ;)
<danfish> I figured it might be - but kittens? I don't trust 'em ;)
<bigcalm_> This isn't funny
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hmm, this tracker is fun... but it's a long learning curve :P
<HazRPG> can't believe I'm using headphones in my own computer room T_T
<HazRPG> my sister decided to watch stuff in here for once and told me to stop that silly noise :/
<HazRPG> anyone here used the GoatTracker?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: in haiku-os?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: no in ubuntu :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: in natty, unity?
<HazRPG> I found GoatTracker, MilkyTracker and C64 emulators in the repos
<HazRPG> nah, I'm using 10.10
<brobostigon> oh, you mean, music tracker, sorry, misunderstood
<shauno> never heard of goat.  milky I'm aware of because they take cross-platform to an extreme.  only one I've used was protracker, and that was /many/ moons ago
<HazRPG> shauno: it was in the repo when I was looking for a c64 emulator :P
<HazRPG> this is essentially all I see: http://www.20jazzfunkgreats.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/GoatTracker_1.png
<HazRPG> its quite... scary... lol
<HazRPG> I'll see if I can find some .sng files to mess with
<Myrtti> boo
<shauno> that's ... interesting
<HazRPG> although, thing about the tracker scene - they prefer not to share their instruments and stuff, since its their sound essentially
<shauno> Based on your corporate access policies, access to this web site ( http://www.20jazzfunkgreats.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/GoatTracker_1.png ) has been blocked because the web category "Adult/Sexually Explicit" is not allowed.
<HazRPG> shauno: wow no way!
<shauno> I do wonder where on earth they obtain their filter lists sometimes
<shauno> anyhow.  time to go home
<HazRPG> shauno: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/images/screenshots/GoatTracker.png
<HazRPG> brobostigon: help!
<HazRPG> brobostigon: https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/gmkbolemmamlpfbnieckhgaghdccmkhe?hl=en
<brobostigon> HazRPG: how can i help. but i am cooking atthe  same time,
<HazRPG> read the comments, I don't know how to reply - it seems so obvious to me
<brobostigon> HazRPG: one minute, give me time, i dont easily multitask.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: sure no problem
 * MartijnVdS bakes pie
<MartijnVdS> http://blog.garion.org/2011/01/31/recipe-guild-master-spinach-pie/
 * brobostigon noms on tea, yummy.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
<brobostigon> thank you for the the idea TheOpenSourcerer :)
<brobostigon> the one show, Prof Brian Cox.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I really haven't a clue what I can say to this guy - he/she is having trouble with my extension :(
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i truly dont know,
<ali1234> how about "here's a nickel, get a real operating system"
<HazRPG> I'm guessing (I'll assume it's a guy) he's having trouble getting his reader to open up... but well I googled it and Windows Live Mail *should* just register the feed:// urls
<HazRPG> ooo winner, there's a gtalk widget for wordpress :)
 * HazRPG add to blog
<ali1234> i don't think that person understands what the extension does
<HazRPG> ali1234: I don't either...
<HazRPG> ali1234: I can't even confirm if it works for others - because he's the only one that has commented
<HazRPG> I've only tested it on my system
<davmor2> Ha just had a whicked phone call hello Sir your computer is reporting that you have some redundant files that might corrupt you system -> me really which operating system was telling you that and who do you represent then so I can sue for preach of privacy -> Woman Goodbye sir  brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
<ali1234> davmor2: yeah been there done that
<ali1234> except i played along for like 40 minutes
<HazRPG> davmor2: : ha, I wish I could I would get phone calls like that - would amuse me no end
<davmor2> ali1234: I couldn't be bothered
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> "sir your computer is going for a toss"
 * HazRPG : Oh really? How do you know?
<brobostigon> shame is, some people who dont know much, would believe it, even if there is noway, for them to know.
<ali1234> HazRPG: i'm not sure *i* understand what that extension is supposed to do
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I know...
<ali1234> and why is outlook a feed handler?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: shame isnt it, people taking advantege of people's lackof knowleadge like that.
<HazRPG> ali1234: I couldn't find a feed handler that opened up Juice in windows for my video podcasts, so I took google's and extended onto it
<ali1234> what is a feed handler?
<ali1234> rss is just a list of urls
<ali1234> i don't understand :S
<brobostigon> google reader for example.
<HazRPG> ali1234: yeah, that's all its for
<HazRPG> some applications register feed:// handler to open up its application with the url to "subscribe" to that feed
<ali1234> hmm i always forget that chrome has no rss support built in
<HazRPG> some only respond to podcast:// or pcast://
<ali1234> this is basically a workaround for that?
<HazRPG> ali1234: yeah pretty much :)
<ali1234> really, i've never seen a rss with anything but http:// in it
<ali1234> eg. video podcast has a url that takes you to the video page
<HazRPG> ali1234: yeah, but this basically strips out the http:// and replaces with podcast:// pcast:// or feed://
<HazRPG> ali1234: ah no, your getting confused!
<ali1234> so then you add a uri handler that opens it in your prefered app
<ali1234> yeah
<HazRPG> ali1234: right... obviously a rss feed is a http://domain.com and inside it is basically just a document with a list of urls and descriptions
<davmor2> brobostigon: It's true and the best of it is the software probably contains the dangerous files that it removes so the end user is thankfully that they called to warn them
<HazRPG> ali1234: this basically sends that feed url into an application instead of having to open the application and place the url in manually
<ali1234> yes, for example: http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds/base/users/ali123492/newsubscriptionvideos
<Myrtti> merh.
<ali1234> see, what i don't want to understand is why would i want to put that rss into some other application?
<ali1234> it's just a list of web pages
<davmor2> brobostigon: that or it'll highlight the errors in the registry that occur if you're system is on for more than a minute
<HazRPG> ali1234: well what do you use for reading your RSS feeds?
<ali1234> firefox
<brobostigon> davmor2: its a fraud, a cheat, it isnt for real.
<HazRPG> there you go, in firefox it's a dynamic list of those urls
<TheOpenSourcerer> np brobostigon - I'm glad it was yummy. I've just had shepherds pie - nom nom
<brobostigon> yummy, :)
<HazRPG> some use RSS feed readers like say Google Reader, Liferea, Juice, Rhythmbox, etc
<ali1234> but you only have to subscribe it one time
<HazRPG> even Outlook, and Thunderbird can read them too
<davmor2> brobostigon: I'm with you it sucks but technically if they sell you a product and it does what they say it will they've not broken the law which is why they use such candid vagueries as could/might corrupt etc etc etc
 * brobostigon is a google reader junkie, he also has the android app.
<HazRPG> ali1234: oh yeah, don't get me wrong it only needs to be done once for any given feed
<HazRPG> ali1234: but sometimes its easier just to click a button and have it do its thing
<ali1234> ok, i see
<ali1234> which brings us back to mr anonymous
<davmor2> brobostigon: I'm confused how do you snort, smoke or inject google reader?
<brobostigon> davmor2: and baffle people,with unfamilier but scary words, and it doesnt even have to do anything, its easy enough to fake it, to look as if, its doing something,
<HazRPG> I mean I use Google Reader for regular feeds with info and urls, and I prefer Juice/Rhythmbox for my music/video feeds
<brobostigon> davmor2: android app, and inside chromium,
<HazRPG> ali1234: Mr anonymous is wondering why my extension isn't putting the feed into Windows Live Mail
<ali1234> HazRPG: so he seems to be asking how to register windows live mail as a target reader for subscriptions
<HazRPG> ali1234: as far as google tells me, feed:// should just open Windows Live Mail - assuming he hasn't got other applications looking for the same thing
<davmor2> brobostigon: explains a lot you need help, now the withdrawal symptoms have been know to kill but we're prepared to risk it on your behalf ;)
<HazRPG> ali1234: pretty much yeah
<brobostigon> davmor2: prertty accurate,
<davmor2> brobostigon: haha
<HazRPG> ali1234: The reason I have podcast:// (and it also factors in pcast://) and feed:// is because these are the two most popular ones applications look out for
<ali1234> HazRPG: so the answers to his two questions are 1. windows live mail and 2. the address of the feed you want to subscribe to
<ali1234> meh, windows live sucks anyway
<HazRPG> ali1234: ikr :/
<HazRPG> ali1234: I don't think that's the answer to his question
<brobostigon> the female presenter on, the one show, seems to be truly dim.
<ali1234> actually i think the problem is he doesn't understand feed = outlook
<HazRPG> ali1234: he's wondering how to implement for - but well its already implemented in there by default
<ali1234> he's trying to define a new handler
<ali1234> and doesn't realise it only works for web readers
<ali1234> he would have known all these things if he read the description but there you go
<HazRPG> ali1234: Ah,  but its not just web readers really
<ali1234> well thats what it says
<HazRPG> oh for pre-defining your own - yes, web-readers only
<HazRPG> but its because my current implementation of this is hard coded
<gord> got my android phone using 10% battery use every 10 hours, makes me happy :)
<brobostigon> gord: elaborate?
<brobostigon> please.
<brobostigon> how?
<gord> upgraded to 2.3, monitored what was using my battery
<gord> honestly, its gonna vary from phone to phone
<brobostigon> gord: i used spareparts to do that in 2.2.1
<freelore> Gord, so you get 100 hours between charges?
<HazRPG> ali1234: since I just wanted something that worked for me, but thought other users who use iTunes/Juice/Outlook/Similar might benefit
<gord> free theoretically
<gord> freelore*
<freelore> Impressive. I had a HTC Magic and the charge lasted maybe 3 hours.
<brobostigon> with resonable use, i canget my htc dream, with 2.2.1 to 24hours.
<ali1234> my C7 lasts 4 days. did not need to tweak anything
 * brobostigon needs a ciggie. brb
<freelore> Dream and Magic had the same internals. I guess the version of Android 1.6 on the Magic was really inefficient.
<davmor2> freelore: yeah issues with 1.5 and 1.6 of android is it never switched 3g off so it would use 3g and wifi to download.  If you used the disable tools for 3g and wifi it would last all day and then some 2.1 and 2.2 are much better at that sort of power management
<MartijnVdS> 2.2 (stock) on the Magic is SLOW though
<freelore> I dare not image
<freelore> *imagine
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: no idea I got the milestone and am still waiting for my 2.2 :)
 * MartijnVdS strokes his N1
<MartijnVdS> 2.3.3 \o/
<HazRPG> ali1234, brobostigon: Any suggestions for wording this better?
<HazRPG> because I'm useless sometimes at explaining myself
<ali1234> i wouldn't try to explain all how to use it in the description on the download page
<HazRPG> ali1234: I would have thought it would be better to explain its usage in the description
<ali1234> HazRPG: i think the difficult bit to understand is that it is a two step process
<ali1234> you don't directly define the application to use
<ali1234> you define the handler to use, and the handler is defined somewhere else
<HazRPG> ali1234: ah
<HazRPG> I guess my assumption relies too much on people knowing how the google version works
<HazRPG> since you have to click the icon first (or visit the feed directly) then pick which handler you want to use for subscribing
<brobostigon> HazRPG: umm, you seem tobe sorting it out.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I am?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: with ali1234
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> I want it to be more user friendly
<brobostigon> the applet.
<HazRPG> I'm wondering if I should re-work it completely
<brobostigon> for whatpurpose?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: So that it's a one-click done job
<MartijnVdS> watch out for Amazon's patent lawyers in that case :P
<HazRPG> brobostigon: but you can configure it should you need to
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i see. but wont that add alor more complexity?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: Seems the current way is more complex to the average user anyways
<HazRPG> brobostigon: so far I've had 1 star rating and a 5 star rating
<HazRPG> so it's a 50/50
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: for what?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: My chrome extension
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: which one? :)
<brobostigon> or /chromium *
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: One user has expressed problems with it, but I don't think I understand what his issue is exactly
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/gmkbolemmamlpfbnieckhgaghdccmkhe?hl=en
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: some users are just .. dense
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: All I know is, he can't get it to work for Windows Live Mail - which it should
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: which might just mean he has a messed-up registry or too-strict virus scanner
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Might also be that he installed Windows Live Mail first, along with another application afterwards which replaced the feed:// handler
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: messed-up registry ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Yeah I realised that as I was typing ^,^
<brobostigon> yay, google buzz finally works in gwibber, amazing, i first saw that bug, ages ago, seems they got it working. finally.
<MartijnVdS> Now all Google needs to do is enable Buzz for apps accounts and I'm set
<brobostigon> thats would be interesting,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o/ hurray!
<HazRPG> Well I've left a comment on the extension page stating if he'd like to have a chat with me to use my chat widget on my blog. So hopefully I can help him out... I don't want him being discouraged from using it, just because his setup is weird - I mean he probably won't find an extension that'll resolve it for him.
<MartijnVdS> podcast time :)
<dogmatic69> could someone help me install / run http://code.google.com/p/innotop/
<dogmatic69> plz :)
<MartijnVdS>  This package includes the client binaries and the additional tools innotop and mysqlreport.
<MartijnVdS> mysql-client-5.1 - MySQL database client binaries
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: ^ you shouldn't have to compile it yourself
<dogmatic69> where you see that?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: apt-cache search innotop -> see two pachages -> apt-cache show mysql-client-5.1
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> its installed :D
<dogmatic69> thanks MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> np
<MartijnVdS> I'd assume mysql-client is useful in other ways as well if you want to use innotop ;)
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: so i should never compile from source?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: not if there's a package, unless you need a feature in a version that's not (yet) packaged
<dogmatic69> ok, its a bit hard to know that though
<MartijnVdS> well, now you know :)
<dogmatic69> i just figured something like that was special
<MartijnVdS> software = software :)
<dogmatic69> Can't locate Term/ReadKey.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /usr/bin/innotop line 1341.
<dogmatic69> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/bin/innotop line 1341.
<dogmatic69> :/
<Cepheus> tried installing Term::ReadKey from CPAN?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: Hmm, I uploaded another photo onto the extension page with a closer view of the RSS subscribe button - hopefully that should help.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, goodidea.
<MartijnVdS> Cepheus: not CPAN.. there's a package
<MartijnVdS> libterm-readkey-perl
<MartijnVdS> install that ;)
<MartijnVdS> Cepheus: same thing again.. if there's a package, don't install from source
<Cepheus> but I wasn't aware of their being a package =p
<Cepheus> nethertheless, a good tip.
<MartijnVdS> Cepheus: apt-cache search Term::Readkey :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I love how ubuntu automatically takes a screenshot with the cursor on it - so the screenshot I uploaded has the mouse hover over the icon too :)
<MartijnVdS> Cepheus: also, check the Suggests: of mysql-client-5.1
<Cepheus> MartijnVdS: not at an ubuntu workstation right now.
<MartijnVdS> (it suggests it, as it's an optional dependency)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: could you do me a favour and test if the chat widget on my blog works :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: pretty please :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ok,one minute. what is the url again please.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: www.hazsoft.co.uk
<brobostigon> HazRPG: is it working?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: right, try and send me a message now - the inbox chat has been turned off
<brobostigon> done.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: nope, nothing - did you start a new session?
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: tx again
<brobostigon> HazRPG: no, i didnt.
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: np
<dogmatic69> QPS -> 0.8 :(
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, close it and try a new one
<HazRPG> because obviously its trying to send it to my gmail chatbox but that's turned off
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ok, oneminute.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: no problem, take your time
<brobostigon> HazRPG: done, with new session.
<dogmatic69> anyone had a bash with http://geekconnection.org/remastersys/
<dogmatic69> looks good
<HazRPG> brobostigon: thanks for that :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: no worries, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hopefully I can get the annoying confirmation off
<TheOpenSourcerer> Reminder - meeting in 15mins in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
<brobostigon> HazRPG: that was annoying.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: the dialogue popped up as being both screens wide
 * brobostigon gets more beer.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :(
<HazRPG> I can understand why it shows up, since you might not want to be annoyed with chat invites on say msn, etc... but still
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ooo I have tuborg in the fridge!
 * HazRPG scurries off to the kitchen
<brobostigon> HazRPG: the proper danish? from danmark?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: brewed in the UK :(
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ohwell, no thank you. :(
<HazRPG> brobostigon: but still just as good (almost)
<HazRPG> plus its free, since my mates brought round a crate of it the other day, and we only drank half of it
<HazRPG> think I've got like 7 left :D
<HazRPG> wow, great guess...  it is actually 7 left xD
<MartijnVdS> http://www.onlysevenleft.nl
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hehe
<HazRPG> are they any good?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: isee,ok.
 * brobostigon has his special dairy free shortbread, because of his allergies, and shares them with everyone.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: "3FM" is the "popular/slightly alternative music" public radio station
 * brobostigon makes agreedable noises.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: and they're regular guests there.. so I'd say people think they're good :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: are you going to join the meeting?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: indeed :)
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> meeting just started peeps
<Myrtti> I just had some mÃ¤mmi
<Myrtti> omnomnom.
<Baikonur> wat
<Baikonur> it's not mÃ¤mmi time
<freelore> Does anyone have an opinion on the Intel NM10 chipset?
<Myrtti> Baikonur: *shrug* Valintatalo had some so we got some.
<DJones> What is mammi?
<Baikonur> i don't think i've ever tried mÃ¤mmi
 * MartijnVdS has his starting number for the 20km on Sunday \o/
<Myrtti> DJones: Finnish easter delicacy that by first impression looks very much like faeces
<DJones> Myrtti: I'm not sure whether I even want to google that after that description :)
<Myrtti> DJones: malted rye porridge, baked very very slowly and for a long time in an oven
<DJones> Ah, not good for me as I don't like porridge of any sort
<Myrtti> well, not exactly porridge either
<Myrtti> sweetened with dark molasses
<DJones> It sounds interesting
<Myrtti> served with sugar and milk or cream
<Myrtti> high in fiber, no fat - so perfect for my mum - but she didn't want any
<DJones> After an improved start, it went downhill there, I don't use sugar or milk unless its in cheese/cream formats
<MartijnVdS> hmmm cheese
 * DJones has just eaten sausage & cheese toasties
<Myrtti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M%C3%A4mmi-2.jpg
<MartijnVdS> it looks.. black
<MartijnVdS> and scary
<AlexJake> Hi, I'm after a solution please, I've just built a server running Ubuntu, we have it on location, a camera is plugged into it, we have a dedicated server in a datacentre down in london, what we need is a way (software) from the server on location to stream to the dedicated server and allow people to watch the stream in their web browser.
<bigcalm> AlexJake: quick google: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/gutsy/man1/webcam-server.1.html
<Azelphur> AlexJake: you could do that with VLC
<Azelphur> the whole thing :P
<AlexJake> bigcalm: it's not a webcam, it's a camcorder
<bigcalm> And what do you have it plugged into?
<bigcalm> A video capture device can be a usb webcam or a usb/pci video capture card
<AlexJake> bigcalm: a PCI card (not sure of brand at the moment)
<Azelphur> which ever it is, VLC can still do it :D
<AlexJake> Azelphur: I know of VLC
<AlexJake> Azelphur: but I didn't know VLC could do that
<AlexJake> Azelphur: I thought VLC was just a video player
<Azelphur> nah, VLC is awesome
<Azelphur> I'm not that fluent in VLC, but I think the logic would be that you set up VLC on the webcam box to stream the input of the webcam/video device to the dedicated server, and then the dedicated server runs a standard video stream
<Azelphur> then you just embed that in the page and it plays in the native media player (so wmp for windows, totem for Ubuntu)
<Azelphur> #vlc will probably be able to help you more and confirm it definitely is possible, but I think it would work.
<AlexJake> Azelphur: do I need VLC running on the dedicated server in london?
<Azelphur> you need VLC on both
<AlexJake> Azelphur: thank you
<Azelphur> yw :)
<Myrtti> parteeee
<brobostigon> yay.
<daubers> I hear my name in -meeting
<jpds> daubers: I would hate to know what text-to-speech with IRC is like.
<daubers> jpds: It comes in colours :)
<AlanBell> and here too TheOpenSourcerer
* TheOpenSourcerer changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Next meeting Thursday March 17th at 21:00 GMT. Agenda for the next meeting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda
<TheOpenSourcerer> \o/
<HazRPG> jpds: there's text-to-speech for irc :o!
<HazRPG> that's just madness!
<daubers> popey: Missed a trick, should have mentioned the leadership contest on the podcast
<HazRPG> AlanBell: might be an idea to place the quiz to 2011plan on the pad
<popey> daubers: it was already over
<popey> we thought
<daubers> Hmmm... suppose
<popey> we will mention it on the next one
<daubers> \o/
<AlanBell> HazRPG: it is a pad . . .
<daubers> It's a bit of a shame only AlanBell's put his name down. Can think of a couple of other people who're in here frequently who could probably also do a good job
<AlanBell> daubers: there is another two weeks
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I know... but I don't want to feel like I'm messing with something I shouldn't :P
<daubers> AlanBell: Indeed. Hopefully someone'll step forward
<AlanBell> HazRPG: you are not, you are messing with something you should
<brobostigon> a job discription, might be helpful for potential candiates,
<brobostigon> to decide.
<daubers> HazRPG: The worst that happens in those scenarios is that someone else undoes it :)
<brobostigon> if they want to put their names down,or not.
<HazRPG> cool
 * daubers suggests an interview panel
<daubers> popey can be the nice one, and ciemon can be the grumpy one
<HazRPG> AlanBell: how does that look? I've also added the Team Leader stuff
<HazRPG> Did we pick a date for the trivia?
<AlanBell> perfect
<AlanBell> no, doodle poll to the list for that
<HazRPG> AlanBell: What's the link for that, if one exists, so that I can put it on there too
<AlanBell> doesn't exist yet
<daubers> Can anyone recommend any good books on designing hardware?
 * daubers has a book budget to spend at work and is trying to boost the library a bit
<HazRPG> daubers: what kind of hardware are you speaking of?
<HazRPG> Seems Atlus can still be relied on for pumping out decent RPGs :)
<HazRPG> ah wait... no EU release date :o
<HazRPG> ... typical :/
<gord> *assuming talking about catherine* - ps3's are region free, import
<gord> thats what i am going to do
<daubers> HazRPG: Anything from USB to PCI-E
<HazRPG> gord: PS3 games can be locked at a publishers discretion though
<gord> HazRPG, barely any are
<HazRPG> I'm assuming it will want people to update to 3.56 though :(
<gord> ah, sucks to be you
<bigcalm> What's the CD ripper of choice?
<gord> loved persona 4, want more of that sort of stuff
<AlanBell> http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p
<AlanBell> HazRPG: ^^
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Thanks :). Updated pad.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ha - What if everyone is OK with all the dates.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Chose a random one.
<HazRPG> yeah
<AlanBell> then we will go with the first one everyone is available for
<HazRPG> that works too
<AlanBell> does the description look OK on the poll?
<TheOpenSourcerer> BTW, did AlanBell, popey and czajkowski know about the Farnham Twestival? Tickets are up now and won't last for long I suspect.
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 17th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night poll: http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK time for bedski.
<popey> http://popey.com/blog/2011/03/03/ubuntu-uk-loco-team-leader-sought/
<popey> done!
<TheOpenSourcerer> NIght all.
<davmor2> Evening all
<AlanBell> evening davmor2, just in time to add yourself to this: http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p
<Myrtti> gnite
<davmor2> Empathy still is kinda sucky as an irc client works better than before though
<davmor2> nearly on par with pidgin
<bigcalm> Any suggestions for a cd -> mp3 ripper?
<bigcalm> There are many to choose from
<davmor2> AlanBell: added
<brobostigon> davmor2: gui or cli ?
<brobostigon> sorry,m
<brobostigon> bigcalm: gui or cli?
<bigcalm> GUI
<davmor2> bigcalm: gui, rhythmbox/banshee/sound juicer
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> As I say, there is a wide selection
 * brobostigon cant type quick enough.
<brobostigon> bigcalm: try them all, and see which works best or you.
<davmor2> bigcalm: use the default installed app if you like keep it if not change it
<bigcalm> I have no interest in cataloging or libraries, just rip one cd after another
<brobostigon> soundjuicer works then.  simple, and easy.
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeap they'll do that,  but if you want a dedicated ripper your looking more at sound juicer
<bigcalm> Ta, I'll give it a go
<AlanBell> one for the twittery types: http://twitter.com/#!/alanbelltolc/status/43448278100099072
 * HazRPG grabs another beer
<HazRPG> I can't be bothered going out now lol
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> free beer is cheaper :D
<brobostigon> very,
<brobostigon> any suggestions for something new to play with on android?
<HazRPG> I haven't done much with android recently tbh myself
<HazRPG> still trying to get faster with 8pen, but well I don't text often enough
<brobostigon> me too.
<HazRPG> hamitron!
<hamitron> evening
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> how's it going?
<HazRPG> evening :)
<HazRPG> not bad, yourself?
<hamitron> all good
<hamitron> still not bought my new comp, I hate commiting to spending money :/
<HazRPG> trust me I know the feeling
<HazRPG> still haven't bought an eBook reader yet
<HazRPG> also starting to have second thoughts on the kindle
<hamitron> well, I would personally wait see what the nook colour update brings
<hamitron> or get a custom android device
<hamitron> tempted with one of these: http://uk.store.creative.com/entertainment-devices-mp3-players/zen-touch-2-with-gps/948-20276.aspx?utm_source=Cheetah&utm_medium=Mailer&utm_content=Pdt_MP3_ZENTouch2GPS&utm_campaign=Mailer_uk_030311
<gord> if you want long battery life, get a kindle. the rest are useless with that these days, otherwise just gett a tablet
<HazRPG> personally reading is black & white for the majority of it anyways, so colour doesn't bother me
<HazRPG> I'd rather have a long-life battery than colour
<hamitron> kindle all the way then
<hamitron> :)
<gord> plus, kindle is nice and hackable :) put the ubuntu font on mine
<HazRPG> recent news has put me off if they can retract books off my device though
<HazRPG> gord: ooo, you've got one?
<gord> they can remove books you purchased through the kindle store, you don't have to use that though
<gord> i do
<hamitron> google can do that on Android too, can't they?
<ali1234> any app store can
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> except those shady chinese ones
<HazRPG> hamitron: stuff off the market place yes - but only paid content iirc
<gord> most of the books i read are out of copyright anyway so i rarely get them from the kindle store
<hamitron> I personally prefer a device with installable apps, and files to upload and use
<gord> i do use the kindle store to get magazine subscriptions and blog subscriptions (basically rss feeds), those are nice
<hamitron> seperate to everything
<hamitron> it is handy :)
<HazRPG> gord: yeah I recently got a nice stack from gutenberg.org
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-04
<hamitron> I know technically I am wrong doing so, but I see no problem with me downloading the pdf of a book, if I have bought a hard copy
<HazRPG> gord: calibre can do that though can't it?
<gord> oh also, just an aside, but someone made a text adventure game interpreter for the kindle too, so you can play zork on it..
<dutchie> Internet! What licence should I use for something like http://j.mp/gBGHgW? MIT? BSD? WTFPL? Something else?
<ali1234> calibre can't run on a black and white tablet with weeks and weeks of battery life
<gord> HazRPG, it can, but that requires hooking up my kindle to the usb, honestly, i forget to do that or its a pain or whatever. its just nice to sit down and open my kindle and see the latest news
<HazRPG> gord: haha nice
<gord> ali1234, calibre is something you run on your desktop, not your kindle/whatever
<brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well
<ali1234> what's the point of that? i want the books on the tablet, not the desktop
<ali1234> yeah yeah, obtuse etc
<gord> because it syncs to your kindle...
<HazRPG> brobostigon: night dude :)
<ali1234> well i agree with you. just download the stuff directly on the kindle
<HazRPG> brobostigon: sleep well
<ali1234> i hate syncing stuff, it takes forever, i can never find the cable, blah blah
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good night, sleep well. :)
<gord> it can also send an email with the books/content to your @amazon.co.uk email address, anything you send to that amazon converts and puts on your kindle
<gord> costs you money though
<hamitron> all cost :/
<ali1234> considering the size of a ebook, and the size of memory cards, and the speed of 3g, there is absolutely no reason to ever "sync" with your desktop
<HazRPG> ali1234: heh I have 2 usb cables constantly hooked to the back of my PC, so that I can either charge my phone or other devices; or for syncing data
<gord> ali1234, i don't follow that reasoning
<gord> are you suggesting you get all the content through the kindle browser? because thats a pain to use
<HazRPG> ali1234: also, calibre can turn any site's feed into an ebook for use on your ebook reader
<ali1234> yes
<hamitron> I see no point in using 3G when you have WIFI ;)
<gord> i would rather get the stuff on my desktop, sync it to my kindle than use the kindle browser thanks
<ali1234> ereaders are not for reading RSS or anything like that
<ali1234> they are for reading books
<ali1234> average novel = what, 15kb?
<gord> mine is for reading rss and things like that
<hamitron> tv's are for reading RSS
<hamitron> ;)
<gord> amazon thinks so too, thats why you can subscribe to rss converted things
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Ubuntu UK LoCo Team Leader Sought - http://popey.com/blog/2011/03/03/ubuntu-uk-loco-team-leader-sought/
<ali1234> can you use a kindle without an amazon account?
 * hamitron would hope you can upload pdf directly
<hamitron> or not?
<HazRPG> see personally if there's a decent way to do it, I'd probably hook my calibre folder to a section on my site so I can just download the stuff I want as and when
<gord> when you buy a kindle from amazon it comes pre-setup with your account, i have no idea about if you buy one in a shop
<HazRPG> gord: can you buy kindle's from a shop?
<HazRPG> I was looking in waterstones the other day and I couldn't see any
<gord> you can in the US see them everywhere, no idea bout the UK
<HazRPG> gord: I'm sure you can unlink your account though
<HazRPG> :( the auto-accept chat perl script I got for pidgin doesn't work :(
<hamitron> my pidgin is acting ghey too
<hamitron> feezes with xfire addon :/
<hamitron> freezes*
<hamitron> not on windows though ;/
<ali1234> what do you guys think about this: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2011-March/003653.html
<hamitron> imo you want smaller than average margins
<gord> "It seems logical to say that PDFs should map 1:1 to the "virtual" pages of the reader software, while the other formats would have to have this format imposed (no pun intended) upon them when they are loaded." <-- ... what pun?
<ali1234> gord: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imposition
<gord> thats still not a pun :(
<hamitron> I don't see a need to dictate how many pages you view at once either
<hamitron> why not have that in settings? ;/
<ali1234> mainly because it drastically increases the complexity of the software
<hamitron> bit of a bugger if you are reading a book with a diagram spread across 2 pages
<ali1234> right, but like i said, novels only
<hamitron> apart from the margins, I wouldn't care that much :/
<HazRPG> I think calibre crops/rotates photos so that they fit on one page
<ali1234> calibre does not follow all the rules that i set out in it's built in viewer
<HazRPG> and pictures tend to be represented on a separate page anyways
<HazRPG> ali1234: how so?
<hamitron> do many novels have pictures?
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> front cover mainly
<hamitron> only half decent one I can think of is Food of the Gods
<HazRPG> graphic novels are all pictures...
<hamitron> it is mainly text :)
<hamitron> just some rough drawings like a lab book
<HazRPG> graphic novels?
<hamitron> The Food of the Gods
<HazRPG> graphic novels tend to be like comics essentially
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> I plan to put a few mangas on my kindle when I get one
<HazRPG> they're all black & white anyway, so its fine :)
<gord> manga's work beautifully on kindles
<gord> perfect size
<directhex> meh
<ali1234> HazRPG: it starts a new "page" for each section, but does not split sections into distinct pages
<directhex> was disappointed when i tried on wifey's kindle
<HazRPG> ali1234: oh yeah, I noticed that too - rather irritating
<ali1234> also it does not have reasonable sized margins, or a decent fullscreen mode
<HazRPG> directhex: what's your thoughts?
<HazRPG> gord: Awesome, I thought it would be :)
 * hamitron would get a Dell Inspiron Duo
<hamitron> then i could use it for work also, on the move
<ali1234> netbooks are too heavy to use as a ereader imo
 * HazRPG not a fan of laptops for prolonged use
 * popey hasnt used his kindle since he's welcomed ipad into his house
<ali1234> the lenovo certainly is anyway
<hamitron> apple whore!
 * hamitron points to door
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> meh
<ali1234> tried a duo, it's nicer construction than the lenovo but still too heavy
<ali1234> screen is very wobbly on the lenovo due to the hinge they used
<hamitron> ali1234: I am not weak and feable ;)
<hamitron> all these "heavy" comments just sound lazy imo
<gord> grr stupid ethernet over power, acting up lately. fustrating!
<hamitron> :/
<gord> can't even stream SD content today
<hamitron> welcome to my world \o/
<HazRPG> *cringe*
<gord> your world sucks and i want no part in it.
<hamitron> yeh :)
<HazRPG> ethernet over power just seems like a bad idea
<ali1234> well the ideapad weighs about 3 times what an ipad weighs...
<gord> when it works, it works fine
<gord> way more stable than wifi too
<hamitron> is it not better to use ethernet for data, and main power for power?
 * HazRPG too much of a security/privacy whore
<ali1234> just switch to power over ethernet :)
<ali1234> i'm sure cat5 can handle 240VAC right?
<gord> some of us don't want ethernat cables all over their house
<gord> power can be used for both power and communication, so why not
<hamitron> rip up the floors
<hamitron> suppose :)
<ali1234> right, the only reason i don't use ethernet over power is it's too expensive and no standards
<HazRPG> communication is essentially power...
<hamitron> is power over ethernet any good?
<ali1234> if i was rich with a nice house it would be a different story
<ali1234> because wifi sucks for reliability
<hamitron> ethernet cost me Â£35
<hamitron> including all fittings
<ali1234> power over ethernet isn't meant to run your whole computer, just a WAP or something
<HazRPG> see, I'm going to be doing a project to get ethernet ports around my house at some point when I get the time to map things out
<hamitron> HazRPG: best thing I did
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> for me it was Â£35 for ethernet, or Â£300 for wifi
<gord> i know the second i did anything like that ethernet would be depreciated in favour of something else
<hamitron> been a cheap ass, I went for the first
<HazRPG> if I can, I'm going to try and run the cabling under the floors (i.e. back of the wall and down) if I can... if not then just the good ol' wire around the walls and doors :)
<hamitron> I used loft space for most
<ali1234> just because it's deprecated does not mean you have to stop using it. unless you are an apple user.
<hamitron> :D
<HazRPG> gord: ethernet will never be properly depreciated, unless fibre-optics gets cheap enough for everyone to be able to use it
<hamitron> I only have cat5e :(
<HazRPG> hamitron: cat5e is perfectly fine dude
<HazRPG> hamitron: cat6 is still way too expensive compared to cat5e
<hamitron> I didn't know of cat6 at the time
<hamitron> was it around 9 years ago?
<gord> cat7 was created in 2002, so i would say so
<HazRPG> well I priced it out, for a roll of 100m cat6 was like Â£30, but for a roll of 300m cat5e was Â£24
<gord> oh wait maybe i read wikipedia wrong
<hamitron> gord: I didn't research it properly, I just looked at what I could buy :)
<hamitron> it was very much coax vs cat5 vs cat5e
<gord> hamitron, as would i! you just peaked my interest so i started reading the pedia's
<hamitron> wicked
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> cat6a was defined in 2008
<hamitron> so now I waste the time of others as well as myself \o/
<hamitron> I was never sure if to fit shielded or unshielded
<hamitron> I went for unshielded eventually
<HazRPG> gord: hmm, I'm pretty sure cat7 hasn't been around that long
<hamitron> time for my daily gaming fix I think
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: ooo, what you planning on playing?
<hamitron> minecraft
<hamitron> haha
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> as far as I know cat6 and cat6a/e are pretty much similar to 802.11n - hard to find TRUE versions and not just the drafted ones
<hamitron> 1Gbps sounds fast enough for me
<szymon_g> hi
<Azelphur> hello fellow night lurker :P
<szymon_g> :) night is so early so far... it's time for coffee :P
 * szymon_g is listening to: Various Artists - Master of Celebration - Clean
<HazRPG> woot! http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64/Tune1-v0.1.sid
<szymon_g> whats that?
<hamitron> muhahhahahaha
<hamitron> ordered my new comp bits
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> szymon_g: song I'm working on ^^
<HazRPG> go hamitron!
 * HazRPG makes transformers sound
<hamitron> gonna be weird with plenty of RAM
<szymon_g> how much will you get?
<hamitron> I normally skimp on memory on an upgrade, but maxed out the motherboard this time
<hamitron> 8Gb
<szymon_g> nice. is it 2x4gb or 4x2?
<hamitron> 2x4gb
<szymon_g> ddr2 or ddr3?
<hamitron> ddr3
<hamitron> it is an ITX motherboard
<hamitron> :)
<szymon_g> ah, nice. i had 4x2gb, but faulty mobo made one of them unusable
<szymon_g> oh, thatx to small. size matters after all ;)
<szymon_g> *that's
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> well, this is sort of a temp upgrade for gaming atm
<hamitron> with an i3
<hamitron> will then later use this as a small form factor pc
<szymon_g> sandy bridge?
<hamitron> no
<szymon_g> 1156 than :?
<hamitron> yep
<szymon_g> well... good choice (till new mobos /with fixed chipset/ will be out)
<hamitron> yeh
<szymon_g> *new mobos = SB
<hamitron> but tbh, no point in waiting for Sandybridge for itx
<HazRPG> indeed
<hamitron> most of the boards won't take the i5
<HazRPG> szymon_g: did you download that sid file I uploaded?
<hamitron> i3 is a little better ofc, but I want something now ;)
<szymon_g> HazRPG : yes, but, to be honest, i have no idea how to open it. i'm running windows now :)
<hamitron> :)
<szymon_g> any chance for mp3/ogg or anything like that :)?
<hamitron> do either of you 2 game on 64 bit?
<szymon_g> hamitron : windows or linux?
<hamitron> windows
 * szymon_g (a bit)
<hamitron> do older games work?
<directhex> you can mostly game on 64-bit windows
<directhex> as long as you don't want to play any games from a specific era between around 1995 and 1998
<szymon_g> depending how old. if they use 16 bit stuff- than not
<szymon_g> (i.e. not without emulation)
<hamitron> atm I have 2 gaming rigs, 1 with win98 and other with xp
<directhex> basically, anything for windows with any 16-bit code (e.g. older installshield) cannot be touched
<directhex> older, and you can use dosbox. newer, and there's no 16-bit
<hamitron> it is the xp games I am wondering about
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> xp's only a decade old
<szymon_g> but, to be honest- i had (so far) only one problem caused by 64bitness- when i tried to autorun a multimedia program on audio cd from 1999
<hamitron> reason I ask, some games state they have "no support" for 64 bit
<directhex> you're likely to have more issues with %PROGRAMFILES% rewriting than with 64-bit
<directhex> with the exception of a few scattered titles
<hamitron> :|
<hamitron> I better not have wasted my time getting 64 bit ready
<directhex> e.g. i can't get railway tycoon 3 to run. but i don't know if that's 64-bit or w7
<hamitron> or I will go cry to MS
<hamitron> hmmm
<directhex> as long as it's not xp64, you shouldn't really notice the difference for post-win95 games.
<hamitron> fingers crossed
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> wait
<directhex> i just remembered one
<directhex> codecs.
<hamitron> ><
<directhex> games which use weirdo video codecs, e.g. for cutscenes, might be unhappy about 64-bit
<directhex> specifically thief 1, thief 2, and system shock 2, which all use the discontinued Indeo 5 codec
<hamitron> if I need 3 comps lined up to play my games, I will be annoyed
<directhex> the games run, but the cut scenes won't play
<directhex> oh, that's the other point, you'll find games which crap themselves on a dual-core or better cpu
<hamitron> k
<directhex> e.g. broken sword 4
<directhex> or thief
<hamitron> I do have a few with intros that use that
<szymon_g> o.O
<directhex> you can force windows to boot single-core for those games
<hamitron> may disable hyperthreading
<hamitron> be interesting to see how I find it
<directhex> i've had more games with multi-core problems, or high-clock-speed problems, than with 64-bit problems
<hamitron> I've read mixed opinions :)
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> a few games are unfinishable with a fast cpu. blade runner, for example
<hamitron> I was hoping to dedicate my 2.2ghz c2d to linux
<hamitron> new comp to new games
<hamitron> k6-2 500mhz to old games
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> i have one game that won't run on XP or higher :/
<directhex> and one game that won't run on monitors larger than about 1650x1080
<hamitron> I have a lot that won't run on non-9x OS
<hamitron> and ssome are picky with widescreen
<hamitron> omg, excited :D
<ali1234> anyone know how many crtc the nvidia 240 has?
<ali1234> i would guess only 2
<hamitron> crtc?
<ali1234> number of simultaneous outputs
<hamitron> I'd guess 2
<hamitron> ouuu
<hamitron> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/124390
<hamitron> that looks good fun and value
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> if I hadn't just burnt money other stuff would get it
<hamitron> ^on
<hamitron> nn o/
<HazRPG> ali1234: erm... I'm sure there's one that does 3
<shauno> morning
<knightwise> goooood morning everyone
<kirrus> g'morning
<kirrus> it's too early *grumble*
<nigelb> morning
<knightwise> haha ive been up for a couple of hours
<knightwise> heyhey
<AlanBell> morning
<knightwise> hey AlanBell \
<knightwise> ive got a question
<knightwise> im using gpodder to download my podcasts
<knightwise> i tucks every episode neatly in its own directory
<knightwise> but im looking for a way to copy over the 2 latest episodes of every podcast to another directory
<knightwise> I can list up the episodes of every directory using ls -rt
<knightwise> and then pipe that output to tail-2
<knightwise> but after that im a little lost as to how to copy over that 'selection'
<knightwise> do you have any idea ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> knightwise: Why dont you just write a small bash script?
<TheOpenSourcerer> FILES2COPY=`ls -rt | tail -2`
<TheOpenSourcerer> those are backticks, not single quotes.
<knightwise> aaah thats where i went wrong
<knightwise> ill try that, holdon
<TheOpenSourcerer> or you could just pipe and pipe I guess, but IMHO a script is just as easy and you can debug it easier.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Speed doesn't seem like an essential requirement in this instance.
<knightwise> nope
<knightwise> i just want to copy the stuff overnight
<knightwise> so its cp 'ls -rt | tail -2' /targetdirectory
<TheOpenSourcerer> knightwise: That works but you need backticks.
<knightwise> ok, ill look for backticks :)  stupid apple keyboard
<DJones> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> On a "normal" UK kbd they are on the `Â¬| key (left of the 1)
<knightwise> cp -av 'ls -rt | tail-2' /destinationfolder
<knightwise> would that do it ( with backticks)
 * AlanBell passes knightwise  a ` to copy
<knightwise> thanx :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> the -av will keep the file perms and the -v will give you vebosity
<knightwise> im on an ipad with a bleutooth keyboard via an ssh connection
<knightwise> i have cross platform issues ;p
<tugrik> you should put some gloves on knightwise , just to make it more "interesting" ;)
<knightwise> tail  options used in invalid context ?
<knightwise> tugrik: feels like i have them on allready
<TheOpenSourcerer> Your command worked here knightwise (with `s)
<knightwise> strange , ill try again
<TheOpenSourcerer> alord@lobsang:~/test1$ cp `ls -rt | tail -2` ../test2
<TheOpenSourcerer> alord@lobsang:~/test1$ ls
<TheOpenSourcerer> file1  file2
<TheOpenSourcerer> alord@lobsang:~/test1$ ls ../test2
<TheOpenSourcerer> file1  file2
<knightwise> its the backticks, ill dive into it
<tugrik> i think you want "ls -rt --format single-column"
<knightwise> Stupid apple keyboard .p
<DJones> popey: You mentioned problems with Chrome yesterday, I wonder if this is anything to do with it http://blog.chromium.org/2011/03/gpu-acceleration-old-drivers.html
<knightwise> cp -av âls -rt | tail -3â /home/cardinalzero/testfolder2/
<knightwise> tail: option used in invalid context -- 3
<knightwise> cp: option requires an argument -- 't'
<knightwise> thats odd  ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Still not backticks.
<TheOpenSourcerer> `
<TheOpenSourcerer> not '
<knightwise> really ? Fraxk
 * knightwise copies TheOpenSourcerer backticks
<AlanBell> cp -av `ls -rt | tail -3` /home/cardinalzero/testfolder2/
<knightwise> YES !
<knightwise> that works :)
<knightwise> now i have one more question :)
<knightwise> gpodder downloads the podcasts in the /podcast folder
<AlanBell> "why did I buy a Mac?"
<knightwise> Im running 10.10 on it !
<knightwise> http://www.knightwise.com/kwtv-screencast/804-kwtv-0022-qubuntu-on-a-macbook-airq
<knightwise> gpodder downloads the podcasts in /podcasts
<AlanBell> nice :)
<knightwise> but downloads each podcast into its own directory /podcasts/podcast1  /podcasts/podcast2 etc
<Oli```> Damnit. Somebody deleted nvnews.net
<knightwise> do i need to write a different line in the script for every subfolder ?
<knightwise> or is there some kind of recursive command that can say "get the 3 most recent files in EVERY subfolder of /podcasts/* and copy those over ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> knighwise have you tried ls -rtR ?
<knightwise> i'll try
<TheOpenSourcerer> You might find "find" to be a better option though.
<daubers> Morning
<DJones> Morning daubers
<daubers> Hmmm, overlay scroll bars look interesting
<daubers> Heh, when working on my mac now, i keep moving the mouse to the top left to access the dock....
<DJones> daubers: I do things like that at work where I use XP when I go to close app's expecting the "X" to be in the top left
<bigcalm> Greetings earthlings
<screen-x> morning bigcalm :)
 * DJones sets Sigourney Weaver on the alien bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hi :)
 * knightwise befriens bigcalm : All hail our alien overlords
 * knightwise trades DJones Sigoury for a mega sexy wiyona 
<bigcalm> Awww. Is this how you treat all hyperintelligent pan-dimensional beings?
 * bigcalm squeeks
<knightwise> nah bigcalm most of the time we blow you to bits while you're still in orbit , right DJones  ?
 * bigcalm goes to make a mug of tea substitute
<DJones> knightwise: Sounds about right, although rather than hyperintelligent pan-dimensional beings, I was thinking more of Star Trek tribbles :)
<MartijnVdS> facehuggers!
<kazade> morning all
<knightwise> "did you take of your panties or is that a tribble ?"
 * screen-x has a replication server called tribble :)
<Myrtti> *rolleyes*
<DJones> knightwise: I think thats lowering the tone of the channel a bit too much
<knightwise> true
<knightwise> it was a close shave
<knightwise> i'll behave
<directhex> rage.
<knightwise> i think i got an answer to my recursive copy problem
<Obtuse> Morning.
<knightwise> but its a php script (i think) so i dont know if i can use it in a bash script
 * screen-x sooths directhex 
<knightwise> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10520015#post10520015
<bigcalm> knightwise: if you have php-cli installed, you can run php from the cli :)
<directhex> screen-x, it'll take several hundred quid to soothe this one Â¬_Â¬
<knightwise> ok , i'll install it :)
<marxjohnson> just need to put #!/usr/bin/php instead of #!/bin/bash
<screen-x> directhex: my RoK budget doesn't have that much in it unfortunately :(
<screen-x> *RAoK
<knightwise> /usr/bin/php: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
<Obtuse> Why is Friday traffic either so good or so bad?
<knightwise> so sudo apt-get php ?
<BigRedS> /usr/bin/php5
<BigRedS> apt-get install php5-cli
<BigRedS> the cli doesn't come with php IIRC
<marxjohnson> indeed
<knightwise> running it now :)
<bigcalm> Which is why I said that it needs to be installed
<bigcalm> Just forgot the 5 :)
<bigcalm> There might be a meta package without numbers?
<BigRedS> not in debian, I don't think in ubuntu
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<shauno> I think they did that intentionally because 4 & 5 can be installed concurrently
<bigcalm> Indeed
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> and, more pertinently, people didn't suddenly want their php4 code failing under php5 :)
 * bigcalm grumbles
<marxjohnson> php5 should still be symlinked to /usr/bin/php though
<bigcalm> I know of 3 clients' servers' still running php4
<shauno> marxjohnson: it will be, once he's installed php5(-cli) :)
<marxjohnson> yeah that's what I meant
<marxjohnson> so the shebang i suggested should still work
<marxjohnson> rather than having to do /usr/bin/php5, although that'll work too
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/03/04/bsa-supporting-free-open-source-software/
<directhex> i'll believe it when i see it
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's supposed to be ironic directhex
<directhex> ah
 * TheOpenSourcerer fails.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-(
<knightwise> running it now :) hmm , script doesnt seem to work :(
<knightwise> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10520053#post10520053
<knightwise> *tinkers on*
<bigcalm> Does it give any errors?
<bigcalm> Gah
<bigcalm> That script isn't php
<knightwise> it just gives the output
<daubers> uh oh, mouse battery low
<knightwise> no ?
<directhex> so, who wants to pay for my car respray?
<bigcalm> directhex: somebody keyed it?
<directhex> [09:18] <directhex> rage.
<bigcalm> Yes, but currently unknown reason for rage
<directhex> why else would i feel a need for rage?
<directhex> pretty obvious imho
<TheOpenSourcerer> erm using Windows would send me into a rage.
<knightwise> bigcalm: the script isn't php ? should i put something different at the header ?
<shauno> knightwise: that looks like bash to me, just like what you started with
<bigcalm> Who mentioned it being php?
<BigRedS> 09:23 < marxjohnson> just need to put #!/usr/bin/php instead of #!/bin/bash
<BigRedS> 09:23 < marxjohnson> just need to put #!/usr/bin/php instead of #!/bin/bash
<BigRedS> oooh, that's sort-of like putty paste fail, but in xterm
<BigRedS> how did I do that?
<shauno> xterm should middle-click paste too.  putty didn't invent it for kicks and giggles :)
<marxjohnson> BigRedS: I said that because knightwise thought it was php
<bigcalm> *clicks and giggles ;)
<BigRedS> ISTR putty does it wrongly, but I don't remember how/why. I know It annoyed me when I was using it...
<marxjohnson> kightwise: looks like you'll need #!/bin/bash instead :-)
<BigRedS> I think I just didn't notice I'd copied the carriage return
<bigcalm> By default, putty uses right click to paste
<shauno> ooh, so it does
<bigcalm> It can easily be changed
<knightwise> ./test: line 2: PODCASTS: command not found
<knightwise> when i use #!/bin/bash
<BigRedS> that's cause there shouldn't be spaces around the =s
<BigRedS> in bash, a word followed by a space is expected to be a command, that line should be
<JamesTait> Bon Vendredi Ã  tous!
<BigRedS> PODCASTS=/home/cardinalzero/testfolder1/*
<knightwise> aha
<knightwise> holdon
<screen-x> morning JamesTait :)
<knightwise> cp: cannot stat `f3': No such file or directory
<knightwise> f3 is the newest file in one of the subdirectory's
<JamesTait> Hi screen-x. :)
<knightwise> (it says that for every 'newest' file in the subdirectories)
<shauno> it's not using an absolute path in the copy statement
<BigRedS> knightwise: which directory are you running that in?
<knightwise> in the testfolder1 directory
<knightwise> cp -av `ls $path -rt | tail -1` /home/cardinalzero/testfolder2
<knightwise> perhaps a / behind testfolder2 ?
<BigRedS> what're you actually doing in that script?
<BigRedS> what's the `ls $path -rt | tail -1` for? shouldn't that be equivalent to just $path?
<knightwise> i have a folder with podcasts (testfolder 1)
<shauno> he wants the n newest files from each sub
<BigRedS> ohhh
<knightwise> inside testfolder1 there are multiple subfolders (1 for each podcast i'm subscribed to)
<Obtuse> TheOpenSourcerer: I like your BSA page :)
<Obtuse> (finally got to read it)
<shauno> I think you need cp -av $path`ls $path -rt | tail -1` ....
<knightwise> in those subfolder are several podcast files of which i would like to copy over the last episode
<BigRedS> you need to make sure the copy-from part is a valid, relative path to the file
<shauno> the results of 'ls $path' are returning a filename withing $path, but without giving the source path to cp
<BigRedS> try replacing that line with
<BigRedS> echo "cp -av `ls $path -rt | tail -1` /home/cardinalzero/testfolder2"
<BigRedS> (which is always worth doing before running it 'for real')
<TheOpenSourcerer> knightwise: (08:35:03) TheOpenSourcerer: You might find "find" to be a better option though.
<BigRedS> and that. I replaced a 180ish line perl script with a four-line bash script using find the other day...
<knightwise> YES !
<knightwise> cd ARG
<knightwise> No
<knightwise> the echo is ok but the files aren( actually copied
<knightwise>  ?
<BigRedS> what's actually echoed?
<knightwise> cp -av f3 /home/cardinalzero/testfolder2
<BigRedS> does a file 'f3' exist in the directory you're in?
<knightwise> yep
<knightwise> it exists in testfolder1
<knightwise> (in a subfolder of testfolder 1
<BigRedS> it's in both?
<shauno> the difference between 'in' and 'in a subfolder of' is very relevant
<knightwise> wait
<knightwise> testfolder1 has 3 subfolders and in each subfolder are 3 files
<BigRedS> if you're copying a file from a subfolder of the one you're in, you need to tell cp which subfolder the file's in
<knightwise> the echo shows that is selecting the "newest" file in every of those 3 subfolders
<BigRedS> else it looks directly in the one you're in and doesn't find it
<BigRedS>  /home/cardinalzero/testfolder1/f3 is a completely different place to /home/cardinalzero/testfolder1/somewhere/f3
<knightwise> yeah but thats the idea
<knightwise> so imagine 'testfolder1' is the folder where i download my podcasts into
<BigRedS> so if you want the file that's in the in 'somewhere' subfolder, you need to tell cp to look there
<knightwise> and gpodder makes up a subfolder in that testfolder directory for EVERY podcast i'm subscribed to
<knightwise> so i would like the script to take the "newest episode" of every podcast (in those different subfolders) to be copied into one directory
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> but you're not telling cp to get it out of a subdirectory, so it's not finding it
<BigRedS> you need to pass the subdirectory on to cp
<BigRedS> which, as AlanBell said, is probably easier done with find, but it's quite possible to just use cp and the like
<knightwise> so i need to make a line for EVERY subdirectory (podcast ?)
<BigRedS> hang on
<shauno> cp -av $path/`ls -rt $path | tail -1` /dest/path
<BigRedS> http://pastebin.com/GxTwxwHg
<BigRedS> ah, yeah, like that.
<BigRedS> :)
<shauno> I've actually no idea how I'd do that with find
<BigRedS> hm, not the single newest file actually, no
<shauno> newer than age or newer than a given file, sure.  but 'newest' ..
<shauno> if he just wanted "this week's podcasts" I'd be happy with find :)
<BigRedS> well, you could -type d then -exec a script that gets the newest file out of it
<BigRedS> and pipe that output through sed to get a dest path
<knightwise> :( No go unfortuantely
<BigRedS> what happens? are you still echoing the call to cp?
<knightwise> yep
<knightwise> i'll paste the output
<knightwise> holdon
<knightwise> http://pastebin.com/3WJ6a49u
<knightwise> cd but testfolder2 is empty :(
<BigRedS> that's cause you're echoing the cp command *rather than* running it.
<knightwise> aha
<knightwise> can i RUN the command too ?
<BigRedS> we coudl have mentioned that :)
<BigRedS> yeah, just delete the echo and "s
<BigRedS> since those cp calls look like they're going to work
<shauno> is f3 actually a file?  that's not what I'd expect gpodder to name the podcast itself
<knightwise> no , its just an example i made , gonna run it on the Gpodder directory now
<shauno> ah ok
<knightwise> YES ! ! !
<knightwise> it worked !
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Lord] BSA Supporting Free & Open Source Software - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/03/04/bsa-supporting-free-open-source-software/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=bsa-supporting-free-open-source-software
<BigRedS> whoop!
<knightwise> Thanx so much !
<knightwise> ok , gonna try it on the podcast directory
<BigRedS> Any mod_rewrite fiends in here?
<BigRedS> I'm trying to do s/(.)/www.$1/ on _every_ domain to hit a vhost, and I can't work out how
<BigRedS> but I'm sure it should be easy :)
<knightwise> aaah SNAP !
<knightwise> there are SPACES in the folder names of the podcasst :(
<BigRedS> knightwise: bah :(
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: http://no-www.org/
<knightwise> frackfrackfrack
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: no CNAMEs for non-www
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it has howtos :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: that's evil.. having www.foo.com but not foo.com
<BigRedS> so I want to, effectively, CNAME in http
<shauno> I'm not sure you can rewrite the hostname if the new hostname doesn't exist?
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: It appears to be standard for aws. You cname www. to some aws instance, and just need to find someone to to http redirects on the domain itself
<BigRedS> shauno: it does. foo.com is hosted on aws, and www.foo.com is a cname to some aws instance. I need to make visitors to foo.com also hit that instance, via the cname apparently
<shauno> knightwise: that's an easier fix.  cp "$path/`ls -rt $path | tail -1`" /to/destination/  (the " are All New and Improved)
<shauno> so you want 'no-www' the other way around?
<BigRedS> shauno: well, I don't. Customer does :(
<BigRedS> but yeah, and for arbitrary domains, so I can have him point them all at a vhost without having to faff with rewriterules
<shauno> http://www.yes-www.org/redirection/  ;)
<knightwise> shauno: stukk tge same errors :(
<knightwise> waiot
<knightwise> its another error
<BigRedS> shauno: yeah, that's what's there at the minute. But I don't want to need to write the two instances of 'example.com'
<knightwise> cp: missing destination file operand after `/home/SHARED/PODCASTS/Ubuntu Podcast from the UK LoCo team Â» mp3-high//media/Y/Music/Podcasts/'
<BigRedS> I might just stick an index.pl that does it, though, that seems simplest
<knightwise> nanocp: omitting directory `/home/SHARED/PODCASTS/Ubuntu Podcast from the UK LoCo team Â» mp3-high/'
<knightwise> the line is used is  cp "$path/`ls -rt $path | tail -1`" /media/Y/Music/Podcasts/
<shauno> I think that'd just be RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^(.+)$ [NC], RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://%1/www.$1 [R=301,L]
<shauno> assuming a different host is answering www., else you're going to need something to stop it redirecting www.example.org to www.www.example.org to www.www.www.example.org ad finitum
<knightwise> shauno:  ? any idea ?
<BigRedS> yeah, it is a different host. I'd not come across the '%1' thingy, cheers!
<shauno> (or is that http://www.$1/$1 .. ugh.  can't test from here)
<BigRedS> shauno: I'll fiddle :)
<mungojerry> Scientific Linux 6 is released :)
<knightwise> holdon
<knightwise> i added -av and it appears to be working now
<knightwise> if this works i can automate podcatching and copying (and dont have to sync in the morning before i go to work)
<shauno> I'm surprised you can't just rsync them to the phone :)  (or ever just grab them from the phone in the first place)
<shauno> *even.  I really need to start bringing my own keyboard to work :(
<knightwise> i could do an rsync to instead of a cp
<shauno> I mean over the network instead of to a mounted device :)
<knightwise> just use rsync -avz --delete
<directhex> mungojerry, yay? :/
<mungojerry> directhex: yay for me :)
<knightwise> shauno: how are you going to mount a folder on your android over samba ?
<mungojerry> we use SL5 on desktops...it's getting long in the tooth!
<shauno> haven't used android, but if it has ssh, rsync doesn't mind ssh
<knightwise> hmm , i'm afraid its copying over ALL the episodes of the podcasts instead of just the latest ones
<dutchie> any ideas for http://twitter.com/jshholland/status/43460844733988865, folks?
<bigcalm> That page doesn't exist :)
<dutchie> which page?
<bigcalm> The url you pasted
<dutchie> wfm
<bigcalm> You added a , to the end
<DJones> It works for me
<knightwise> shauno: so you think i would be able to ssh into my phone aswell ?
<BigRedS> dutchie: I vote BSD generally
<bigcalm> Making it not work :)
<dutchie> bigcalm: get a better url highlighter
 * bigcalm points at x-chat
<dutchie> BigRedS: yeah, i was leaning towards that i think
<bigcalm> , is a valid url character
<shauno> knightwise: I can my iphone, so I'd hope all happy & free android could too ;)
 * DJones points bigcalm to irssi :)
<BigRedS> I don't know why BSD over MIT, I think just general familiarity
<BigRedS> DJones: the URL highlighting there is in the terminal emulator rather than irssi, I thought/
<knightwise> shauno: the script almost works , its just copying over EVERY Episode instead of just the last one :(
<DJones> BigRedS: True, puttytray didn't have a problem with it
<screen-x> knightwise: have you come across the advanced bash scripting guide?
<knightwise> screen-x: no :( i'm just a novice
<screen-x> knightwise: don't need to read it all at once, but really useful for getting your head round bash.
<popey> DJones: could be, thanks
<knightwise> good idea screen-x
<bigcalm> DJones: call me old fashioned, but I like a GUI when working on a desktop ;)
<screen-x> dutchie: wtfpl, mostly because I'm feeling imature.
<dutchie> heh
<knightwise> just wondering why the tail -1 doesnt seem towork :(
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: why not BSD or MIT then?
<knightwise> cp -av "$path/`ls -rt $path | tail -1`" /media/Y/Music/Podcasts/
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: they're basically wtfpl for adults
<BigRedS> screen-x: I _really_ like that license. But I can see people disliking it because of the swearies
<BigRedS> as in, not being allowed to use the code because the license swears at people :)
<BigRedS> knightwise: tail -n1
<BigRedS> I thought?
<screen-x> The acronym needs a plausible alternative intepretation.
<knightwise> i'll try
<BigRedS> Oh, no, -1 should work too
<popey> DJones: interesting, my work laptop has intel 945GM with drivers from 2006
 * BigRedS saves several hundred characters a day
<popey> intel has newer (2008) drivers
<screen-x> or as MartijnVdS says, could just grow up and use BSD ;-)
<knightwise> BigRedS: :( .. no :( it doesnt seem to see the tail command
 * AlanBell points at -> http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p
<DJones> popey: I was looking at something else & a link to it caught my eye and just thought it was worth mentioning
<dutchie> hrm
<dutchie> wonder what i should put instead of "University of California, Berkeley" for the organisation
<knightwise> hmm its like the path comman is ok by the ls command doesnt talk to tail
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: your sentence doesn't make sense
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: (uw zin is onzin :))
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: :)
<knightwise> cp -av "$path/`ls -rt $path | tail -1`" /media/Y/Music/Podcasts/
<bigcalm> Anybody see Marchlands last night?
<knightwise> is supposed to copy the newest file from every subdir
<knightwise> but instead it copies all of them :(
<bigcalm> Bit of a weak ending I thought :S
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: that won't work, it'll concatenate all files into one long filename
<MartijnVdS> hm, wait.. that SHOULD work..
<knightwise> this is the entire script http://pastebin.com/vF98S4e5
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: what happens if you assign first?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: FOO=`ls -rt $PATH | tail -1`
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: echo $FOO
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: then cp -av "$path/$FOO" $dest
<knightwise> erm , whats foo ?
<MartijnVdS> just a random name
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metasyntactic_variable
<popey> DJones: just rebooting now to update driver :)
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: could you pump that into the pastebin ? then i'll know what to change
<DJones> popey: Will be interesting to see if that cures the problem
<shauno> knightwise: http://pastebin.com/NfWpH2aN
<shauno> tried and tested with a "~/test/with spaces/one two three".  that $IFS thing is magics
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: http://pastebin.com/mvfc8pdj
<MartijnVdS> shauno: IFS is teh scarey
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: trying now
<screen-x> < MartijnVdS> shauno: IFS is teh scarey <-- great quote :)
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: :(
<knightwise> still copying everything
<knightwise> http://pastebin.com/T7pibVQb
<shauno> it's the 'path in PODCASTS' bit that breaks, if a folder has spaces in it's name.  the IFS scaries tell it spaces don't matter, newlines do
<knightwise> IFS=$'\t\n'
<knightwise> i added this !
<shauno> (well, they matter, but they don't separate)
<knightwise> and now it seems to work
<knightwise> its only copying one file
<knightwise> YEP
<knightwise> Thats it !
<knightwise> next step i'll try with Rsync :) that will speed up copy times
<BigRedS> it shouldn't do
<BigRedS> I'd expect the files to not change, so you'd always be copying the entire file
<BigRedS> er, the filenames to not change
<knightwise> true but you wouldnt be copying over episodes that aren't "new"
<shauno> it'd probably make a difference if not every podcast has updated
<knightwise> shauno: Exactly
<BigRedS> ahh yeah
<knightwise> all i do now is put the script on my SDcard on my phone and have crontab open it there
<shauno> cp -n would do the same thing tho (--no-clobber)
<knightwise> that way the script wont run if my phone is not connected
<knightwise> shauno: so just cp -avn ?
<shauno> yeah
<knightwise> ah k :) then we"ll tweak that too :)
<shauno> that'll just stop it copying if the destination file already exists
<knightwise> wicked
<shauno> likely won't make a lot of difference if you're asleep when cron runs anyway :)
<knightwise> shauno: thats also true
<knightwise> cron runs at 5am
<knightwise> i get up at 5.30
<knightwise> I do have to watch out for the fact that it copies over the episode that was DOWNLOADED the last
<screen-x> wut! when do you go to bed?
<knightwise> not aired the last :)
<knightwise> for example i downloaded some old(er) episodes in the feeds too
<knightwise> and now it sees those older ones as 'new ones' :)
<shauno> you'll also eventually want something to remove previous espisodes from the sdcard ....
<knightwise> shauno: i think i'll use a command that throws out files older then a week
<knightwise> or just delete the entire SD directory and run the command
<knightwise> that would be the cleanest option
<screen-x> knightwise: so what you really need to do is get the pub date from the metadata, build an index, and select the newest episodes. Or just use a podcast client to manage your device.
<shauno> I heartily recommend itunes.  it's fast, lightweight, freedom-loving ...
<knightwise> screen-x: :) then i would be back in itunes
 * shauno goes back to work before the noose gets here
<knightwise> allmost no linux podcast client has that ability !
<screen-x> I thought gpodder could manage devices?
<knightwise> screen-x: yep , but it doesnt have an option to "only copy over 2 episodes" and stuff
<knightwise> and lets face it , this is a way cooler way to do it ? nu ?
<knightwise> i can even use a command line podcatcher now
<shauno> writing a patch for gpodder would be cooler ;)  this is mildly entertaining tho
<popey> DJones: not fixed
<davmor2> morning all
<screen-x> knightwise: it has "only sync tracks that have not been played"
<DJones> popey: Shame, would have been handy if it did, I'm just wondering whether to try updating to the dev channel and testing on this machine
<knightwise> screen-x: but i never "play" the tracks in gpodder anyway
<knightwise> just on my droid
<davmor2> popey: one word.  Punish
<knightwise> ok , added rm -r file to clear the sdcard
<shauno> reminds me, I meant to look into running a script when a particular device is connected
<shauno> but I heard they're trying to kill hal, so idea where I'd start there anymore
<gord> shauno, devicekit, udisks specifically
<popey> DJones: fixed!
<popey> DJones: I had GPU acceleration switched off
<DJones> popey: Heh, was that something that came up with the new driver, or would that have been the same with the old driver
<shauno> gord: ty, that looks like just the ticket
<DJones> popey: Was the GPU acceleration a setting for Chrome, or just part of the display driver settings
<dutchie> why did i just ls a newly-created directory when I cd'ed into it?
<Obtuse> dutchie: I do that a lot too.
<screen-x> dutchie: I do that..
<BigRedS> force of habit. I always do that
<Obtuse> Or typing "w" when I know who is logged in... me!
<screen-x> Colleague "your office is really dull, you should get a SAD lamp" Thanks!
<BigRedS> I use 'w' as shorthand for 'uptime'
<popey> DJones: well, i updated the driver then realised that it wasnt enabled
<popey> (in chrome)
<popey> about:flags
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<popey> lo brobostigon
<kazade> can anyone think of any reason why a cron job would run twice, one after the other, even though it's only got a single entry in the crontab?
<brobostigon> morning popey
<kazade> o/ brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning kazade
<DJones> popey: Found it, having just updated to the dev channel, I've a "GPU Accelerated Canvas 2D" which appears to be enabled by default
<Obtuse> BigRedS:  Me too, and even though  I know only I use my workstation, in days-gone-by I absent-mindedly checked load on big shared servers at Uni etc.
<Synth_sam> DJones:Strange, I'm on the dev channel and it's disabled by default on mine
<Obtuse> kazade: Time changed on the box so it was appropriate again?
<Obtuse> NTP sync or something?
<kazade> Obtuse, !
<kazade> that's something I haven't looked at
<kazade> that could well be it!
<popey> DJones: bah! not fixed after all
<davmor2> popey: did you think the issue might be XP?
<popey> well it used to work
<jonsaint> hi all. can anyone recommend a programme for yahoo that lets you share pictures and also webcam use?
<BigRedS> for yahoo?
<DJones> jonsaint: Yahoo messenger?
<jonsaint> yes
<BigRedS> oh, yahoo messenger
<DJones> jonsaint: Possibly aMSN, but I'm not 100% sure whether that will work with webcams
<jonsaint> aint that for msn tho??
<DJones> Its not just for MSN
<jonsaint> il give it a try
<davmor2> jonsaint: have you tried empathy and pidgin
<jonsaint> pidgin yes.
<dutchie> empathy would probably be a better choice than aMSN if you like your eyes not bleeding
<dutchie> it may not work though
<DJones> dutchie: Does empathy work for video/webcam chat for yahoo accounts
<dutchie> maybe :)
<jonsaint> cheers folks. gonna try it now. will report back
<shauno> good lord.  I seem to have sprung some terrible lag :/
<nigelb> Kopete does video for yahoo I believe
<knightwise> DJones: why not use google video chat
<knightwise> its platform independant
<DJones> knightwise: "11:33 < jonsaint> hi all. can anyone recommend a programme for yahoo that lets you share pictures and also webcam use?
<knightwise> ah
<brobostigon> empathy does do webcam and voice for some protocols.
<knightwise> yahoo
<jonsaint> im just waiting for the person to come online for me to check it
<Obtuse> Anyone know a good wireless webcam?
<Obtuse> I want a tadpole cam :)
<knightwise> logitech had those once
<popey> ooo yay, bug 721447 is assigned to gord
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 721447 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unable to scroll in Applications/Files and Folders Place using mouse wheel" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/721447
<popey> Go Gord Go!
<DJones> Are you going to annoy him by asking hourly, "Is it fixed yet?" :)
<popey> nah, that would be unfair
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 17th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night poll: http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p Go Gord Bug 721447
<TheOpenSourcerer> That sounds like a parent speaking DJones
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Are we there yet?"
<popey> that'll do :)
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: That was the thought that was going through my head
<davmor2> popey: harsh,  that'll be gord and sil out to punish you then :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have we all visited the 'Choose-a-Quiz-night' page? http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p
<shauno> I'd just spotted that, and was trying to see if I could scroll back far enough to find out what said quiz entails
<bigcalm> Questions and answers?
<DJones> shauno: Have a look at the -uk-meeting logs
 * bigcalm is in one of those moods
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - why isn't the uk-loco on this list? http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/
<TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20110303
<shauno> ah, cheers.  explains why scrollback was failing me
<TheOpenSourcerer> Infact to save you scrolling: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20110303#AlanBell%20-%20Quiz%20night
<shauno> this should be fun.  it's time to gather up all the rack keys and try them out because someone took the right key home with them
<bigcalm> Not labeled?
<knightwise> i just love using the issh client on the ipad
<knightwise> makes you feel like you're doing something you're not supposed to
<davmor2> knightwise: I like the connectbot on android for a similar reason
<shauno> bigcalm: sort of.  some of the rack keys fit racks they're not meant to
<shauno> so Plan B is always to grab every key you can find and try 'em all :)
<bigcalm> Fun
<tugrik> don't scissors work pretty well as rack keys?
<tugrik> or are these *properly* secured racks?
<knightwise> it works :)
<knightwise> the podcast copy script works :}
<brobostigon> yay, gnome-shell working on natty, :)
<brobostigon> thank you, gnome3 team, :)
<HazRPG> hi
<brobostigon> afternoonings HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: afternoon :)
<HazRPG> seems that tried to chat with me while I was asleep >_<
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you sleep?!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Sometimes :P
<HazRPG> argh, this is driving me insane!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: what is?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: this SID I'm trying to produce lol
<MartijnVdS> SID.. as in c64 music?
<HazRPG> yeah
<MartijnVdS> scary man
<HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64/Tune1-v0.1.sid <== this is what I've got
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64/cadaver2.sid I'm trying to work out how this guy managed to speed the same baseline
<MartijnVdS> I don't know sid files, only mod files
<MartijnVdS> and there it's easy :)
<DeathSling> Zimbra administrators!!  If I have openssh-server am I right in asuming that it should be setup to listen on any port other than 22 as Zimbra "Remote Queue Manager" is running on that port?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Depends what compiled it - totem will open the files btw ;)
<HazRPG> the sid files I mean
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Wait, you know how to make .mod's ?
<daubers> HazRPG: What're you making them in?
<HazRPG> GoatTracker
<HazRPG> in the repo for ubuntu :)
<DeathSling> A googled answer say's that ssh should be setup on 22, which seems wrong to me
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: milkytracker - Music creation tool inspired by Fast Tracker 2
<screen-x> DeathSling: 22 is the default port for ssh
<HazRPG> DeathSling: The port should be 22 by default, if you have something running on port 22 - you should change it :)
<HazRPG> what screen-x said :)
<DeathSling> I did, I am running ssh on 5061 but an error in zimbra seems to point at that
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I have that one too,  however I find this one easier to understand (don't know why)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ft2 and/or it used to be _the_ tools, back in the 90s :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Really?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I'm guessing its still based on the c64 SID right?
<HazRPG> MilkyTracker just seems confusing, because I thought the c64 could only play 3 channels
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: schism - ImpulseTracker clone aiming at providing the same look&feel
 * HazRPG fills hard drive with more stuff
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Yeah I noticed that one too, but that one I didn't download
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I don't know sid at all..
<shauno> tugrik: definately not 'properly secured'.  they're just little tumblers like office drawers.  it's just a training lab :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: mods are made for some chip in the Amiga
<MartijnVdS> (originally)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah I thought so :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Aww, Schism doesn't make a menu icon :(
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: who needs a menu icon :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Its nice for when you forget you have something ^^
<HazRPG> wow schism is tiny on my screen
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you need to run it full-screen on a 15" CRT
<MartijnVdS> for full effect ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hehe
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: which one do you use?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: neither atm.. it's been a while :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Argh! that was scary
<HazRPG> full-screen on my setup just isn't right
<HazRPG> spans the two screens I have going on here
<shauno> HazRPG: what on earth are you up to now?   lol
<HazRPG> shauno: you make it sound like I'm just up to mischief all the time :P
<shauno> no comment
<HazRPG> shauno: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64/Tune1-v0.1.sid
<HazRPG> shauno: that's what I have so far
<HazRPG> shauno: and I'm trying to imitate this: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64/cadaver2.sid
<shauno> hm.  wonder what I've got that'd open those
<HazRPG> shauno: totem?
<shauno> at work :)
<HazRPG> vlc should, and gnome player
<HazRPG> ah
<shauno> got a modtracker on my phone, but I think that's just .mod's
<brobostigon> vlc plays basiclly everything, in my experience.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: this is true
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ooo... vlc doesn't play sid!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: including on occasion, broken vids and audio files.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: what, :(
<shauno> doesn't appear to here either
<knightwise> shauno: script works great btw
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ahh I had this problem with mid too... you need to have a synth file included in the vlc to get it to work - and synth files are copyright so they don't include as standard
<shauno> \o/
<knightwise> also set it up for a generic usb stick i can use in the car
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: apt-get install freepats
<knightwise> thanx again to all of you
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, i see.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also, apt-get install timidity :)
<shauno> sidplay2 -w your.sid :)
<HazRPG> that too
<shauno> dumps a .wav, and I'm pretty sure xp should beable to handle that much
<HazRPG> :)
<silner> Is there any reason why gems like iplayer-dl and Grumblr don't get into Ubuntu repos - special issue with gems or just coincidence? Popey?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ^ have you checked timidity + freepats?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I googled them :P
<shauno> pfft.  uae & protracker.
<HazRPG> shauno: ?
<HazRPG> where'd you get sidplay2 from?
<shauno> apt-cache search sidplay
<HazRPG> sidplay (without the 2) isn't there
<HazRPG> s/isn't/is
<shauno> oddly, the package is named sidplay, but the binary is named sidplay2
<HazRPG> oh
<popey> shauno: nobody has packaged them
<popey> plus most of those are a single script
<shauno> silner: ^
<silner> So it's just not worth it?
<silner> I just wondered if there was some special reason why?
<popey> doh
<popey> well, get-iplayer is packaged in ubuntu
<popey> and is more maintained than iplayer-dl
<popey> but the version in ubuntu hasn't got love because upstream dropped it
<popey> no special reason why silner
<silner> Grumblr is pretty unique though? And quite a long script :)
<popey> never heard if it
<silner> Tumblr client
<silner> Like Tumblweed but native to Linux rather than AIR
<silner> Much faster because of that
<popey> get someone to package it in debian
<popey> then we get the benefit too
<popey> (and so does everyone else)
<silner> That's an idea - author said gems are so easy anyway it's not worth his time, more politely than that though :)
<popey> its written in ruby?
<silner> Yeah
<popey> give yup
<popey> *up
<silner> Why?
<AlanBell> ruby does not like deb
<silner> Ah right
<popey> http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/blog/?p=566
<popey> ruby doesn't seem to like any kind of packaging
<nigelb> +1
 * nigelb huggles python
<AlanBell> true, it isn't an exclusive deb problem
<gord> python isn't a huge fan of packaging either ;)
<nigelb> but there is some form of packaging
<silner> Gems are easy enough but but it was new to me the way you do it and I'm guessing some may find the menu creation hard work
<AlanBell> python also has problems when mixing .deb and easy_install
<nigelb> I stick to virtualenv + pip
<nigelb> for the most part...
<shauno> pip/gems make me think the same thing.  is 'foo doesn't like packaging' related to 'foo has invented their own packaging'
<silner> I knew there had to be some reason because I could find any Ruby Gems that had been packaged for any system
<AlanBell> the generic problem is mixing different packaging systems
<silner> could=couldn't
<nigelb> there is the distro packaging, then there is the gem or easy_install or pip packagaing
<nigelb> mixing things tend to make it crash
<shauno> atleast cpan seems to pull it off quite nicely
<nigelb> or fight with each other, which is worse
<silner> The Gem is very stable and runs as fast as asimilar native app AFAIKS
<silner> I just wish it had a spellchecker
<silner> At least now I understand why the author was so reluctant to fulfil my wishlist :)
<silner> I'm actually thinking of looking into packaging. I'm getting fed up with recompiling source I want every time I upgrade or change systems
<HazRPG> there's definitely a trick I'm missing here, I just don't get how the other guy speeded up
 * mungojerry just got back from a technology show
<mungojerry> it's amazing how many stands were irrelevant : symantec, mcafee, etc
<shauno> amazing how survivable such companies are tho :/
<shauno> (that said, I used to have a linux build of mcafee.  I wonder if they still do that)
<silner> There are quite a few AVs  for linux now
<silner> AVG and Antivir are free too
<silner> as in beer
<silner> not FREE
<HazRPG> Clam!
<silner> or FAIF as Bradley Kuhn would say :)
<mungojerry> intel bought mcafee for what, $8bn?
<HazRPG> I'm never going to get better with this :(
<shauno> boy did they get ripped off.  I think we paid about $20 for it
<screen-x> shauno: haha
<HazRPG> shauno: you almost had me on the floor with that xD
<screen-x> anyone know of a suitable channel for asking questions about troff/groff, I'm getting rather frustrated :(
<shauno> that'd be an odd one for irc.  I think you just want to walk around the building until you find someone with a gray beard
<HazRPG> heh
<screen-x> shauno: I found someone with half glasses, he suggested using an invisible table to solve my problem, like html of old :(
<HazRPG> ah ha I think I cracked it!
<HazRPG> it has a shorter pattern length!
 * HazRPG goes to experiment!
 * brobostigon returns from doing last nights washing up.
<popey> http://popey.me/eEJa8o
<popey> apparently I only contribute to Ubuntu because I want a job from Mark Shuttleworth
<screen-x> haha
<brobostigon> what cheek.
<shauno> well that explains everything!
<brobostigon> what a cheap shot.
<shauno> in other news, you appear to be famous ;)
<mungojerry> schestowitz is still trolling i see
<mungojerry> by that reckoning , who does he want a job from?
<mungojerry> popey: were you googling yourself again?
<shauno> why would anyone do that ... when they can use google.com/alerts to do it for them
<mungojerry> anyone use get_iplayer? having problems getting it to work :(
<shauno> I do
<HazRPG> seems I was wrong
<mungojerry> shauno: "rtmpdump does not support SWF Verification"
<brobostigon> mungojerry: it works here,but i have to set it to download a flashform, ie --mode=flashstd  for example.
<mungojerry> brobostigon: trying that but getting a fail on rtmpdump
<mungojerry> i have it working at home but having bandwidth issues there, today is my last day to download
<brobostigon> mungojerry: have you tried rtmpdump from the repos?
<brobostigon> !info rtmpdump
<lubotu3> rtmpdump (source: rtmpdump): A small dumper for media content streamed over the RTMP protocol. In component universe, is extra. Version 2.3-2 (maverick), package size 43 kB, installed size 156 kB
<mungojerry> i'm on lucid :(
<mungojerry> doesn't exist
<brobostigon> !info rtmpdump lucid
<HazRPG> popey: random
<lubotu3> Package rtmpdump does not exist in lucid
<brobostigon> mungojerry: :(
<shauno> it appears I'm using flvstreamer rather than rtmpdump
<brobostigon> mungojerry: ido believe you need to specify the path to rtmpdump aswell. soit canfind it.
<mungojerry> ah..
<HazRPG> popey: how did you even find that? or do you frequent that channel?
<brobostigon> https://github.com/jjl/get_iplayer thats the version i am using.
<popey> after a conversation on identica the other day I had a look at their logs to prove a point, spotted that
<popey> mungojerry: i use get_iplayer, i have it cronned on my server at home to get my fave programmes
<popey> /home/alan/bin/get_iplayer --no-purge --vmode=flashhd,flashvhigh,flashhigh,flashstd,flashnormal,iphone --pvr --flvstreamer=/home/alan/bin/flvstreamer --output=/srv/media/TV --subdir
<popey> thats what I do :)
<shauno> I have it cronned .. err .. somewhere in the uk  =x
<HazRPG> popey: those comments are rather harsh tbh, most people contribute because they want to better a project
<shauno> contributing hoping it'll lead to employment isn't as silly as they make it sound
<HazRPG> shauno: true
<popey> i didnt say it was silly :)
<shauno> not as directly as "if I'm nice to mark he'll give me a job", but more as a general "having foss on your resume"
<popey> exactly
<shauno> not you, your log :)  makes it sound like a less-than-valid tactic
<mungojerry> ok guys, i found a deb of rtmpdump
<mungojerry> works now :)
<HazRPG> shauno: I agree on the "having foss on your resume/cv" part
<mungojerry> i had previously compiled it but obviously missing an option
<brobostigon> ./get_iplayer --nopurge --type=all --category=scifi
<HazRPG> always a great thing to add to your hobbies/skills section
<shauno> it's a classic catch-22 that everyone wants experience, but how do you get it.  foss is a fantastic answer
<mungojerry> if someone wants a job with canonical they should just apply :P
<HazRPG> shauno: :)
<HazRPG> yeah, exactly
<HazRPG> nothings stopping people from ever sending them a CV or filling out an application form
<HazRPG> plus if you've helped out with the community, you can mention that to them
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: as if they care about the community </cynic> :P
<shauno> I thought I had some docs on troff, but turns out it's for roff.  stone.  age.
<HazRPG> but to say that's the only motivation behind helping out, is to get a job from them is invalid
<HazRPG> hmm, am I the only one that doesn't seem to /get/ twitter and identi.ca
<shauno> no.  my mom doesn't get it either.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i have my own, ptaylor.status.net
<HazRPG> shauno: *eye twitch*
<shauno> HazRPG: I kid.  she probably would if she cared :p
<knightdroid> connectbot ftw
<HazRPG> brobostigon: argh, now that just makes it more confusing!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: hehe, sorry,
<HazRPG> so status.net != identica != twitter
<HazRPG> but identica ~ twitter
<brobostigon> HazRPG: status.net is the tech identi.ca is based on and uses,
<daubers> HazRPG: status.net = identi.ca != twitter
<shauno> the main difference between them is twitter actually has users
<shauno> /duck
<HazRPG> lol
<screen-x> daubers: where "is used by" denotes "uses"
<HazRPG> that's like saying the playstation 3 has no games
<HazRPG>  /hides under rock
<screen-x> hmm, there was supposed to be an = in there somwhere, complete fail.
<brobostigon> shauno: allthe right people use identica, icant say  that for twitter.
<daubers> brobostigon: "the right people"???
<HazRPG> daubers: I'm guessing he means foss-based people :)
<shauno> I wouldn't agree with that either.  tried identica, got spammed senseless
<brobostigon> daubers: yes, i know what i mean, umm,
<HazRPG> i.e. most of the nice ones
<Ng> identi.ca is good for talking to FOSS people, twitter is good for talking to normal people
<Ng> ;)
<screen-x> I dont know any normal people, but I know plenty of non FOSS people.
<HazRPG> shauno: maybe you were just hooked up to the wrong people?
<HazRPG> +1 screen-x
<HazRPG> same
<shauno> I don't believe I was 'hooked up' to anyone
<HazRPG> shauno: following I mean, or being followed
<HazRPG> if that's even the right term for identica
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, those are the right words.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :0
<HazRPG> :)*
<shauno> just looked, I'm in the ubuntu 'group' and following ubuntu-ie.  no more, no less
<shauno> it's not like I followed half of brazil.  they came to me   lol
<mungojerry> HazRPG: twitter seems to be a good broacast medium. i basically use it as i would an rss reader
<HazRPG> mungojerry: yeah I use twitter for that reason
<mungojerry> i don't really follow many people
<mungojerry> i find it a clunky way to communicate too
<HazRPG> me either, hard to keep track otherwise
<mungojerry> especially the messaging
<brobostigon> nationalrailenquiries annuncements is a good use of twitter.
<mungojerry> brobostigon: a bit verbose though?
<mungojerry> i don't like reading about stuff that doesn't apply to me
<brobostigon> mungojerry: but useful, if you use the train alot.
<mungojerry> i want granularity of announcements for only one line
<mungojerry> brobostigon: agree in principle though
<brobostigon> mungojerry: :)
<brobostigon> or for the ubuntu-uk admins, bitfolk downtime/issue announements.
<shauno> man friday afternoon is boring.  I need to find something to keep me busy, or I may start snoring
<mungojerry> have a meeting with anti open-source consultants in 5 mins :(
 * brobostigon gets mungojerry a concience gun, to aim at said consultants.
<mungojerry> very upset about the way decisions are handled :(
<brobostigon> :(
<popey> ho ho ho
<popey> co-workers windows 7 laptop is knackered
<brobostigon> hw or sw?
<shauno> sugar packets?
<mungojerry> i kept seeing win7 laptops on display today and thought they were running kde4
<DJones> Have you booted up with a live cd yet and saved all their work making them eternally greatful to you
<BigRedS> hah, yeah, I did exactly that with win7
<popey> doing a memtest now
<brobostigon> hmm, nm-applet seems to be dieing every so often.
<brobostigon> [ 3796.135586] nm-applet[16111]: segfault at 1 ip b73a0ae6 sp bfcd3904 error 4 in libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.2400.1[b72a8000+3d0000]
<brobostigon> ok, launchpad here we come.
<screen-x> >:(( groff 46,329, screen-x 2
<Myrtti> naps â¥
<brobostigon> can someone confirm please, before i report it, i cant find a bug like it, in natty.
<screen-x> yay for naps \o/
<bigcalm> Nap time for the servers
<screen-x> freenode never sleeps, but sometimes it has hiccups ;-)
<davmor2> brobostigon: I have no issues with nm
<brobostigon> davmor2: ok, thats interesting to know, how about solely with the applet, rather than network-manager as a whole.
<davmor2> brobostigon: Nope sits there doing it's job
<brobostigon> davmor2: ok, thank you.
<davmor2> brobostigon: no probs
<brobostigon> davmor2: must be something specific to my machine and or installation then.
<davmor2> yeap
<davmor2> brobostigon: try running tail on the syslog and see if the driver disconnects and reconnects
<davmor2> brobostigon: Still do a bug other maybe effected
<brobostigon> davmor2: yes, good idea.
<HazRPG> shauno_: I like knowing these things though
<HazRPG> shauno: ^^
<shauno> I'm not sure how best to explain without offending anyone
<HazRPG> I thought emacs was a cli editor thing
<shauno> that's the one
<HazRPG> I knew it was one of two
<HazRPG> (remember the eMac?
 * brobostigon has found, the seven year itch, on film4, one of his favorite films. deadfunny film.
<HazRPG> or Educational Mac
<shauno> yeah
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, and it was butt ugly.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: literally BUTT :P
<HazRPG> shauno: how would you offend anyone about emacs?
<shauno> :D
<HazRPG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_audio_trackers
<HazRPG> \o/ hurray!
 * HazRPG feels offend that sid isn't on that list
<HazRPG> surely c64 was popular enough to support its format, right?
<DJones> o/ C64
<ali1234> sid isn't a tracker format
<HazRPG> sng is though?
<ali1234> nobody cares about that
<ali1234> sid music is in sid format
<gord> sid is format that conveys pure joy, that is all that matters
<ali1234> which is 6502 machine code
<HazRPG> ali1234: ah, that would explain why bin is one of the formats GoatTracker saves in
<HazRPG> or rather compiles/packs
<shauno> .sng is just 'dot song'.  it's really quite generic
<HazRPG> renoise seems to use flac's for its samples... that just seems to be sacrilege!
<[diablo]> afternoon all... I have an opening for an Ubuntu Server administrator in London.... senior role... and due to its almost niche nature I am looking for a way to promote the role within the Ubuntu (UK) community
<seal> hi all, I hope I am in the right forum. If not please refer me...Set-up: ubuntu 10.10. I need help in two areas...(1) edit my . profile to say  " PATH=$PATH:/usr/sbin:/sbin:$HOME/bin "      \n   " export PATH  "      \n   " unset USERNAME  "  in .profile (2) how can I stop public_html from downloading php instead of parsing it?
<screen-x> [diablo]: have you posted it to the linuxjobs ml?
<HazRPG> seal: I assume you have php installed
<nigelb> [diablo]: write a blog post on ubuntu uk planet ')
<[diablo]> hi screen-x ... not yet. I have looked there and see there is very little movement
<[diablo]> nigelb, yep, that was another suggestion from someone in the ubuntu-ha channel
<screen-x> [diablo]: I subscribe and see a reasonable volume of jobs, not much discussion, but it isn't a discussion list.
<seal> hi HazRPG yes it work within  root local host but I wish to config in /home/user
<nigelb> [diablo]: there is some upcoming event too.  Go for it and hand out buisnesss cards
<nigelb> Or bribe popey to advertise on uupc ;)
<shauno> was going to say, it shouldn't be high volume.  it's a definate case for quality vs quantity
<popey> [diablo]: there's a fair number of people on that list
<popey> <- one of the admins of the list
<[diablo]> sorry, which list?
<popey> 15:40:20 < screen-x> [diablo]: have you posted it to the linuxjobs ml?
<[diablo]> ah
<[diablo]> ok
<[diablo]> sorry
<[diablo]> switching windows constantly :-)
<nigelb> popey: the list limited to uk?
<HazRPG> seal: I'm confused, you want to move the public_html folder you mean to /home/user
<HazRPG> ?*
<shauno> seal: check in /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/php5.conf
<[diablo]> I am right in saying popey that you refer to https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/linuxjobs
<popey> yes
<popey> nigelb: yes
<HazRPG> shauno: that was going to be my next suggestion :P
<nigelb> aw :(
<seal> HazRPG: I have installed lamp server^ and it is configure to work in localhost...
<shauno> you should find a stanza containing  http://paste.ubuntu.com/575536/
<seal> I have created public_html in /home/user/public_html
<shauno> I believe it's there for a very good reason.  I do believe php files run from public_html will still be run by www-data, which can be a gaping security flaw
<seal> And I wish to run php file from within public_html dir
<shauno> if you need to do it on a production machine, or something that's net facing, google suexec and have fun.  if not, firewall up and remove that stanza
<HazRPG> shauno: you mean placing public_html in ~/ is a security problem?
<shauno> HazRPG: no, I mean having 'shaun' by allowed to write to a file that's executed by 'www-data' can be a problem.
<HazRPG> seal: as shauno mentioned check /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/php5.conf (he's also pasted an example in paste.ubuntu.com)
<seal> just checking guys...
<HazRPG> seal: also, make sure you have allowed users to be able to execute the php files - otherwise it'll be pointless
<HazRPG> gotta have the right permissions ;)
<shauno> if his browser is feeding him the file instead of parsing it, permissions are good.  php is simply disabled for userdir out of the box.  for very, very good reasons
<HazRPG> shauno: would linking to the main folder be a bad idea?
<shauno> depends what he's trying to do.  if he just needs a machine for local development, firewall 80 and rip the place apart
<seal> I did did check and my settings: php_admin_value engine On
<shauno> if it's going to be net-facing, or a multi-user setup, he needs to understand why having everyone's files executed by www-data isn't clean
<seal> Is it recommended to run directly in www?
<HazRPG> shauno: I'll leave you to help him out, I still have a lot to learn about running apache in linux it seems
<HazRPG> seems so very different to the windows version
<HazRPG> however I always work in the prime directory it was installed in as standard anyway
<seal> I recently moved over to linux so I am trying to understand how it is done here - but I am happy with any suggestions...this particular setup is for development purpose
<bigcalm> You know your heart isn't in it for the day when you carry on playing minecraft during a client phone call
<brobostigon> seal: we are happy to help in any way we can, in our own way, :)
<brobostigon> bigcalm: :)
<seal> brobostigon: thanks ;)
<shauno> seal, sticking with /var/www is usually the most sensible option
<brobostigon> seal: :)
<seal> /var/www it is...
<screen-x> hmmm my gmail account is temporarily unavailable, given the recent problems, I hope it comes back containing all my mail..
<davmor2> screen-x: Nah!
<shauno> screen-x: but think of all the extra space you'll have!
<screen-x> its the 2011 version of "the dog ate it"
<shauno> I have to say "I told you so"; less than a month ago people questioned why I wanted to be my own MX instead of letting google handle everything
<shauno> it's 4pm; do you know where your backups are?  :D
 * bigcalm doesn't care enough on a Friday afternoon ;)
<shauno> I need to find a theme with more colour.  when people /me, it looks like I wrote it :/
<screen-x> \o/ gmail is back, with all my mail... this tiem
<seal> thank you guys for your help...I'm off
<screen-x> shauno: running local mail is fine, I haven't found a good solution for calenders though.
<shauno> may be worth getting fetchmail to hit up their pop3 and blast it all to a mbox once in a while.  nicely ugly 'just in case' option
<screen-x> thats a good idea..
<shauno> yaknow, just in case they go bankrupt or something  *scratches head*
<shauno> I keep meaning to look into caldav.  never found myself quite bored enough yet
<screen-x> problem is that gcal is really easy, works well with mobile devices, and has lots of users.
<shauno> especially since the new & improved nanny at work has blocked me.com :(
<bigcalm> Humm, Sound Juicer doesn't know what to do with dual format CDs
<bigcalm> Which is sucky
<andylockran> jpwdu
<andylockran> oops
<andylockran> hate it when I put my hands on the wrong place on teh keyboard then start typing
<ali1234> does diaspora have PIM/CMS type stuff, or is it just ... facebooky?
<shauno> I couldn't get it to federate, so it was like facebook with 1 user
<bigcalm> Heh
<screen-x> andylockran: at least your offset is conistent.
<shauno> don't like friday afternoons :(  everyone goes home early.  everyone .. else.
<screen-x> shauno: I'm staying late today..
<shauno> I never know when I'm staying late.  I find out if a test fails at 6.15 :)
 * brobostigon scp's shauno and screen-x a beer, theyhave earnt it.
<screen-x> :)
<BigRedS> Is there a --purge equivalent for a package that you've already removed?
<screen-x> BigRedS: I think you'd have to install then purge.
<BigRedS> screen-x: yeah, it's what I've always done. Just ocurred to me that there might be a proper way of doing it
<screen-x> BigRedS: I dont think its possible, because you can't dpkg -L a package that isn't installed.
<screen-x> BigRedS: however you could do something with apt-file's index and remove any files that are still there.
<shauno> dpkg can purge things that don't exist, apt can't
<shauno> dpkg --purge packagename should work.  apt-get --purge remove packagename will complain
<shauno> similarily, dpkg -L package should be pretty honest about the remains of uninstalled packaged that weren't purged
<shauno> think I'm gonna stick joins/quits on ignore so I can just pretend there's still people here :)
<screen-x> shauno: http://paste.ubuntu.com/575562/
<andylockran> shauno: I'm here :)
<shauno> is apache2 not a meta?
<screen-x> damn, it probably is
<screen-x> was trying to think of something that would have config files.
<shauno> metas have nothing.  not even config files :)
<shauno> screen-x: I see your paste and raise you a http://paste.ubuntu.com/575565/
<screen-x> :) will know for next time
<gord> popey_, you can remove me from the topic now :)
<danfish> shauno: I have joins/quits on ignore, but when a split occurs and no one answers, you start to feel a bit paranoid ;)
<screen-x> quick work gord :)
<gord> eh, was like a five minute fix, just was on the back burner
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 17th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night poll: http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p Gord fixed Bug 721447 \o/
<shauno> hah
<shauno> glad the bot doesn't parse that
<AlanBell> what is bug 721447 anyway?
<mungojerry1> waits for lubotto...
<DJones> The bot is probably on teh wrong side of a split
<AlanBell> anyone want to test my mumble server?
<shauno> danfish: I do in most rooms, but this one isn't usually too noisy
<AlanBell> install mumble and connect to mumble.libertus.co.uk
<danfish> AlanBell: I'll give it a go, but it will be from Win XP
<danfish> bah - port blocked by the great firewall
<AlanBell> ah well
<AlanBell> plenty of time to try later
<AlanBell> I am just curious whether there are any timing issues with it running in a VM
<shauno> I'd hope not.  I run teamspeak for 25-30 people in a fairly cheap vps
<AlanBell> cool
<AlanBell> this isn't a cheap VPS
<daubers> AlanBell: Whats the connect address?
<AlanBell> mumble.libertus.co.uk
<AlanBell> it is actually in Germany, but on a fast link
 * daubers pauses his momentus backup task
<Daviey-> AlanBell, mumble.daviey.com is a VM
<Daviey-> and that seems to work fine.
<AlanBell> oh good
<AlanBell> I know asterisk conferencing can be very sensitive to timing sources
 * daubers notes he can't connect to any *.archive domain
<danfish> AlanBell: is this for the quiz?
<AlanBell> danfish: could well be
<shauno> there's a .archive tld?
<AlanBell> and I just wanted to try it
<AlanBell> I just installed natty server and mumble-server on that, easy peasy
<danfish> quiz means pwizes \o/
<AlanBell> certainly does
<screen-x> danfish: nah, thats points
<danfish> and me wants a pony
 * screen-x points danfish at the ponyclub
<danfish> screen-x: they wouldn't have me.....
<danfish> the openstack announcement for natty server was interesting
<danfish> competition is always good
<lazarus_> grr fails
<lazarus_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/575573/
<gord> pfft, tell that to mr jobs ;)
<screen-x> gord: he's fine with competition, as long as he's winning
<lazarus_> screen-x: LOL
<daubers> screen-x: Or he owns them
<shauno> 1 more hour to test my sanity
<danfish> he looked a bit peaky doing that ipad2 launch
<danfish> he might not see ipad3...
<shauno> according to the national enquirer's expert medical opinion, he died weeks ago
<HazRPG> shauno: I just found OpenMPT
<HazRPG> shauno: wish it had a linux port... but still nice regardless
<shauno> I'm reading unix docs from 1979.  you may win this round.
<HazRPG> shauno: ?
<shauno> the boredom sweepstakes :)
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> I'm messing with trackers ^^
<HazRPG> shauno: think it would be hard to port to linux?
<screen-x> shauno: I think I win, I'm hacking a perl script from circa 1990 that outputs troff
<HazRPG> screen-x: :P
<shauno> ooh, I already went past troff
<shauno> A TROFF Tutorial. B. W. Kernighan.; An introduction to TROFF for those who really want to know such things.; Bell
<shauno> Laboratories, 1976.
<rysin3_> How do I configure vnc4server to let me view the server machine's actual screen output rather than a new session? Or is there a better solution for parental control remote screen viewing?
<screen-x> shauno: I'm reading N Gehani 1988
<shauno> I thought vino-server did that by default?  (and thought it was bulit into gnome now)
<screen-x> rysin3_: system > preferences > remote desktop > allow other users to view your desktop
<AlanBell> rysin3_: personally I think parental controls should be installed on the other side of the eyeballs
<MartijnV1S> BRAAAAIINNSS
<shauno> yummy
<Azelphur> n64 emulator came out for android last night :o
 * Azelphur is trying it now
<rysin3_> ok thanks for your help and your opinion! :D
<rysin3_> But.... I'm using a variant of ubuntu on the other machine (I want to view) that doesn't have remote desktop installed. Is this available via package manager?
<screen-x> !info vino
<lubotu3`> vino (source: vino): VNC server for GNOME. In component main, is optional. Version 2.32.0-0ubuntu1.1 (maverick), package size 159 kB, installed size 512 kB
<Obtuse> Right, weekend starts here.
 * Obtuse waves.
<shauno> adios
<screen-x> thats like waving with your eyes shut ;)
<shauno> HazRPG: looking at it, I'm not sure I'd even try.
<HazRPG> shauno: looking at?
<HazRPG> oh OpenMPT
<shauno> yeah
<HazRPG> oh to port it?
<HazRPG> heh
<shauno> tada!
<HazRPG> all the libraries exist in linux though - in fact a majority of them are based on them
<HazRPG> would be an interesting project if others would help
<HazRPG> currently messing around with it in wine at the moment
<HazRPG> not sure if I like it compared to GoatTracker - it is nice having a full gui though
<shauno> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/Protracker.gif   that's not a full gui?
<HazRPG> shauno: oh, well technically they all do
<HazRPG> I like the idea of having a file tree, and tabs for each section though
<HazRPG> heh, if I'm honest I'm looking for something that's simpler in all honesty
<HazRPG> plus from what I can see with OpenMPT you can take out instruments and wave tables out of existing projects and place them into your project with ease
<HazRPG> obviously I get that I should really be making them myself (and I do like the GoatTracker interface as a whole) - its just nicer to see something I'm more use to
<HazRPG> if I'd actually understood trackers back when I was 10, I probably would have a different take on this
 * HazRPG remembers owning a tracker for his GB but didn't know how to use it, due to lack of manuals
<HazRPG> and didn't really have internet then
<ali1234> goattracker is all about SID
 * HazRPG can see that my comments will probably anger some purists and others who prefer them in their old-school way
<ali1234> you can fit all the SID registers on the screen at once
<HazRPG> ali1234: yeah, I do like that :)
<ali1234> there's no samples or anything like that
<HazRPG> like I said I like the GoatTracker interface
<ali1234> openmpt is more like a full sequencer
<ali1234> which is a much bigger scope
<HazRPG> ali1234: I guess, but it does depend what format you want to produce in
<ali1234> most people would want to produce wav/mp3
<HazRPG> ali1234: true
<HazRPG> kinda what I want to go with, but I'd like to be able to say I produced them - hopefully from scratch - but the learning curve is killing me lol
<HazRPG> I do want to make some old-school music like this for my game project :)
<screen-x> shauno: how are the tests looking...?
<HazRPG> ali1234: I use to use Music Maker on the PSX several years ago, but the problem with that is that the samples are copyrighted, plus you were limited to what they gave you
<shauno> 20 mins away
<HazRPG> ali1234: I like the idea of trackers, because you can make them up as you go along, and your only limitation is that of hardware its based off
<screen-x> ok, well hopefully you won't have to stay any later..
<screen-x> \o all
<shauno> I kinda don't mind when we do.  because it's not ours to fix.
<shauno> just sit around earning overtime while someone in the US panics
<HazRPG> do you guys work together?
<shauno> I hope not
 * HazRPG would like to know ali1234 opinions on trackers/sequencers
<ali1234> nobody uses them, this is how music is made today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5Dn-WaElI
<HazRPG> ali1234: oh, I've done that before
<HazRPG> I prefer the old-school sound of SIDs
<ali1234> so make a baseline, sample it, add the rest with something else
<ali1234> jus SID alone isn't really enough
<ali1234> *bassline
<ali1234> anyway, afk
 * daubers kicks his stupid router
<daubers> an hour and a half trying to work out why my networking tool wasn't working, just to discover the bloody router treats wired/wireless as 2 different broadcast domains
<HazRPG> daubers: heh
 * shauno drums fingers
<shauno> and outta here
 * MartijnV1S listens to the weirdest program on Dutch radio
<knightdroid> yoyo
<knightdroid> just punched up connectbot on the droid
<knightdroid> pretty cool stuff over ssh
<Myrtti> for irssi usage?
<knightdroid> yep
<Myrtti> try irssi connectbot instead then ;-)
<MartijnVdS> works fine on my n1 as well
<knightdroid> whats the difference between the two ?
<MartijnVdS> n1 is a Nexus One
<MartijnVdS> oh "Connectbot Irssi" has some irssi hotkeys
 * knightdroid is on a desire hd
<MartijnVdS> but it's not up to date
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't support some connectbot features (pubkeys, I think, being one)
<Myrtti> yup
<knightdroid> ah
<knightdroid> ill take a peek
<Myrtti> changing windows is easier, scrolling the buffer is easier
<knightdroid> connectbot +byobu   bliss
<knightdroid> like having a terminal server :b
<knightdroid> "~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<knightdroid> hmm howto tab in connrctbot ...
<rysin3_> Which command starts the veno server? Since it doesn't start up on boot.
<AlanBell> it should be in the menu
<rysin3_> It's not. It's a ubuntu variant.
<AlanBell> system-preferences-remote desktop or something
<rysin3_> I can start it by using the command veno-preferences but this brings up a dialog.
<rysin3_> and seems to start the server
<AlanBell> yup
<rysin3_> is there a command to just simply start the server and not display the dialog?
<AlanBell> /usr/lib/vino/vino-server &
<AlanBell> or sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop :)
<rysin3_> ok thanks :)
<AlanBell> Saturday 16th sneaks into the lead http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jo Shields] Protip: parallel-installing Mono versions in an APT-happy way - http://apebox.org/wordpress/linux/370/
<HazRPG> I got pizza :)
<HazRPG> nom
<brobostigon> :)
<Myrtti> pistachios
<HazRPG> Myrtti: win \o/
 * HazRPG wishes he had pistachios now :(
<nigelb> AlanChicken: ping around?
<AlanChicken> nigelb: hang on, I will de-chicken myself
<nigelb> AlanBell: could you join #ubuntu-classroom-backstage for better coordination? :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: my minecraft server is public now :D
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I think I read earlier you setup mumble?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: its really easy to do :)
<HazRPG> as you'll probably have noticed
<AlanBell> yup, got it working very easy
<AlanBell> I increased the allowable bandwidth to have higher quality client connections
<HazRPG> thing is, you've got to make sure when your customising the options is to take into consideration you bandwidth limits, and how many will be connecting to it
<HazRPG> AlanBell: what did you set it to?
<AlanBell> on the server 1000000
<AlanBell> clients don't go that high though
<HazRPG> AlanBell: depends, people can set their clients individually
<Nafallo> what unit is that? :-)
<HazRPG> I mean I have my client sent to 100.8Kbps
<AlanBell> Nafallo: bits per second I think
<AlanBell> mumble.libertus.co.uk if you want to pile on and have a chat
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I doubt you'll need your setting that high either
<HazRPG> my server is set to 560Kbps
<HazRPG> everyone connecting is roughly 70-100Kbps
<Nafallo> heh.
<HazRPG> most I've seen at once was something like 7 users
<HazRPG> so everyone was being scaled down
<Nafallo> sounds like you'll run out of other resources before bandwidth :-P
<HazRPG> and even then it sounded perfect
<AlanBell> Nafallo: I would be astonished if that server ran out of anything
<HazRPG> hmm doubtful
<AlanBell> it is a VM, but I can give it 24GB and 12 cores if I want
<HazRPG> even if you had 100 users on it, it won't waste too much resources
<HazRPG> I've noticed mumble seems to be pretty light-weight
<HazRPG> actually wait I was doing the math wrong, yeah ~976Kbps as you've set it should be fine
<HazRPG> that would allow for 14 users at full default client settings
<HazRPG> so even 28 users at half, won't notice any problems
<Daviey> AlanBell, if you are using KVM you could try giving it 1024 cores :)
<AlanBell> Daviey: cool! didn't know I could overcore it
<Daviey> yeah
<HazRPG> the problems would only lie if you had >42 users
<Daviey> Useless, but nice feature
<HazRPG> ignore me lol, I just like numbers
<AlanBell> isn't that per-client limit?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: hmm?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: The server scales connecting users down
<HazRPG> so with your settings if you have 42 users on at once, they'll all be scaled down by a 1/3
<Daviey> AlanBell, 42 is the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Servers, the Clouds, and Everything
<AlanBell> hmm, best increase it then
<HazRPG> default client setting is ~75Kbps
<HazRPG> just for your math
<HazRPG> so 76800*n
<HazRPG> where n = users
<HazRPG> if you want them all connected at normal bandwidth each
<HazRPG> like I said, scaling doesn't have any side effects
<HazRPG> I've had a user actually set their client down to 35Kbps because they were experiencing mega latency issues in Egypt as a whole (during the internet ban-hammer)
<HazRPG> so he was connected at 35Kbps, and everyone else at 75Kbps... but his voice was still crystal clear
<HazRPG> and he said we sounded perfect to him
<HazRPG> which is why I always factor in 1/2 or 1/3 scale-down from the default client value
<HazRPG> since those perform fine, but after 1/3 ... voices start to sound computerised
<HazRPG> let me know if I'm boring you btw... lol
<HazRPG> because I'll stop if I am
<HazRPG> if bandwidth is an issue (for those interested), its best to do your calculations as (76800*n)/2
<HazRPG> where 76800 = default client value, n = users, and 2 = scale-down of 1/2
<shauno> I don't think speex goes past 44k.  so twice that for two directions, and you've got absolute max
<HazRPG> if that still seems too much change the 2 to a 3
<nperry> Anyone got an idea on how to debug compiz?
<nperry> Following the bugs wiki doesn't work :(
<gord> nperry, does this not work? gdb --args compiz --replace
<HazRPG> shauno: which is why I'm saying 1/2 or 1/3 scale-down is fine
<nperry> gord: Feck! Forgot all about gdb!
<nperry> Ty
<HazRPG> shauno: the main reason I think mumble has more then 44k is to factor in latency
<HazRPG> I could be wrong...
<AlanBell> HazRPG: want to connect to my server and see if it sounds OK?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: sure :)
<AlanBell> sounded a bit crap with daubers earlier
<AlanBell> mumble.libertus.co.uk
<HazRPG> default port?
<AlanBell> probably
<HazRPG> woo!
<AlanBell> yay
<HazRPG> yeah, those settings should be fine
<HazRPG> have fun :)
 * AlanBell -> pub
<HazRPG> AlanBell: \o/
 * HazRPG goes back to his other mumble server
<HazRPG> AlanBell: heh, they say gratz on getting it setup ^,^
<HazRPG> wish I could get milkytracker to produce sound >_<
<HazRPG> at least with GoatTracker I could
<HazRPG> must be doing something wrong here
<shauno> kinda quiet tonight
<popey> Shhh!
<daubers> Evening
<nperry> Lets all do a barrel roll..
<popey> ooo
<popey> that makes me think i should play 1942
<daubers> nperry: Far too much Lylat Wars for you!
<nperry> co worker had it on his android...
<daubers> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHZeW-RtHE4
<nperry> didn't do much work today tbh
<nucc1> i'm curious, just saw R. Moya's blog post. Is the only way to get Gnome3 in ubuntu 11.04 through a PPA?
<daubers> Urgh, looks like I mmight be in next weeks Hairy Bikers episode
<nperry> nucc1: At the moment yes, it was in the repos back during alpha 1
<nperry> nucc1: can't remember the reason for pulling.. it should be back
<nucc1> nperry, i sincerely hope it comes back at some point before release
<nucc1> thanks
<nperry> nucc1: There is a post explaining on ubuntu forums, in the natty section.. but it was closed due to trolling..
<nucc1> i can imagine :p
<daubers> some library conflict wasn't there?
<nperry> heaven forbid something breaking unity iirc.
<daubers> I've only had 1 major fail in Unity this week
<daubers> It's really growing on me now too.
<nperry> For some reason window decorations dont work on unmaximized gnome-terminal
<dutchie> grr
<nucc1> i've been relying on frederic crozat's usb image
<dutchie> silly banshee
<nucc1> i'm won by it.
<dutchie> seems to be incapable of picking up the metadata for these cds
<nperry> daubers: its useable, but I do like gnome3
<daubers> nperry: Oh, I wouldn't have noticed that. Use terminator these days
<nucc1> nperry, it may be a PPA only in the end: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-January/002740.html
<nucc1> fingers crossed though. hope it works well, like official packages.
<daubers> sounds like a relativley sensible engineering decision
<nperry> nucc1: must of missed that some how.. by bad.
<nperry> nucc1: tbh, if its not stable I would rather it not be in the repo at launch..
<nucc1> daubers, it is sensible engineering decision, but one does feel sad at seeing it start falling down the priority list.
<nperry> It wouldn't go down very well....never does once people get in a bad mood about ubuntu
<daubers> nucc1: Can't do everything. Lots of things I wanted to do have fallen by the wayside in recent years.
<nucc1> daubers, perfectly understood. i'm just speaking as someone who prefers Gnome3. I'm not really trying to blame anyone. In the worst case, I'd have to switch distros. But that's not a bridge I've arrived at yet.
<nperry> All this gnome shell talk is making me want to try it
<nperry> Time to install again
<nucc1> nperry, try the live usb image http://gnome3.org/tryit.html
<nucc1> it works quite well, one could use it for work.
<daubers> nucc1: Someone'll probably package up Ubuntu with gnome3 instead of Unity at some point
<nucc1> seems like the linuxmint guys plan to.
<nucc1> and since it's based on ubuntu, it might make a very good candidate.
<gord> unity is in all out bugfix mode now that we passed feature freeze, gonna rock :)
<daubers> \o/
<nperry> nucc1: I would but I live in the country side would take me 40mins to download
<gord> linuxmint switched away from ubuntu didn't they?
<gord> to debian
<nucc1> nperry, lol.
<nucc1> gord, they have both debian and ubuntu based branches
<gord> haha
<gord> really?
<nucc1> i think so, last i checked (january)
<nucc1> the debian one is based on testing, so it's like a rolling realease thing
<gord> hehe, i'm gonna go change the default windows theme on an install to green one and claim thats linux mint windows branch
<nucc1> incidentally, i don't fancy green themes :p
<nucc1> lol
<gord> no, me either, my computer is a computer not a plant
<nucc1> i love the dark greys
<nperry> haha, watching benidorm..."twiiter is like email, just a little bit hit or miss"
<nucc1> nperry, what "up to" speed is your connection quoted as? :d
<nperry> nucc1: they don't quote one
<dutchie> ok, banshee has actually gone crazy
<MartijnVdS> it does that
<nperry> nucc1: the local exchange only serves 200 people
<MartijnVdS> (a lot for me)
<nperry> and thats 5 miles away :/
<gord> banshee is geeeenerally okay for me, unless i try to play video
<gord> which is a shame, i would love to play video with it
<dutchie> it does seem to have got extraordinarily buggy over the last week
<daubers> Video never works in banshee
<daubers> for me anyway
<nperry> thats waht vlc is for
<gord> i can play one video, but after that no
<nucc1> nperry, at least in the country side, you can play loud music without disturbing the entire block :p
<daubers> nperry: mplayer ftw
<nucc1> daubers, nperry mplayer/vlc to me are at feature parity. chosing either of the two might as well be left to a coin toss
<nucc1> personally, i use gnome-mplayer, because i hate seeing QT apps on my desktop ;)
<nucc1> they look too out of place
<nperry> nucc1: funny you should say that... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150224954625413&set=t.630452757&theater this is what we had last summer
<Baikonur> i don't think i have any qt apps
<nperry> nucc1: going to setup something bigger this year
<nucc1> nperry, you're cheating!!!!!
<nucc1> :(
<nucc1> i'd give up my superfast cable internet for that, anyday :)
<nucc1> i can't even turn up my tiny logitechs without feeling guilt.
<nperry> plus if you walk 5mins through the woods behind you end up in longleat :/
<nperry> we left the speakers on, drove for about 2 miles and could still hear the music clear enough to say who it was.
<nucc1> :)
<nperry> We're at the top of the village so it passes over the people in the valley
<dutchie> i ought to report this bug
<dutchie> but it is just too weird
<dutchie> and there are too many too confusingly interlinked
<nperry> Thankfully I'm a moc user.
<dutchie> moc?
<nperry> music on console
<nperry> !info moc
<lubotu3`> moc (source: moc): ncurses based console audio player. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:2.5.0~alpha4+svn20091009-1build4 (maverick), package size 219 kB, installed size 644 kB
<dutchie> i liked banshee when it worked
<HazRPG> ah ha! Cracked the speed table mystery! Woo!
<HazRPG> :)
<HazRPG> shauno: you about?
<shauno> sorta
<MooDoo> not many people want to be team leader then :)
<popey> yeah
<popey> slackers
<MooDoo> don't want it yourself again popey ?
<popey> well given I'm already on the CC, LoCo Council, EMEA RMB.. I thought we might find someone else
 * cbx33 is pretty darn happy today
<MooDoo> well at this rate, looks like Alan has it in the bag :D
<cbx33> someone forked my GITT project and started proofing it
<popey> cbx33: hey hey, hows things?
<cbx33> yeh great popey
<cbx33> the bok is starting to gain a little traction
<nucc1> cbx33, thank Og Maciel :p
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> Og is a very good friend of mine
<cbx33> you are right it is pretty much all down to him :)
<nucc1> once again proves that good ideas don't sell themselves
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> not that I'm saying it IS a good idea
<cbx33> :)
<nucc1> ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> but I think it'll be interesting to see how far I can take it
<popey> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Mashable/~3/5lAOWblbdFQ/
<popey> GNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
<nucc1> a "git for humans" type book should be a helpful thing to have :)
<dutchie> cbx33: that's yours?
<dutchie> i did download it and was going to do a bit of proofreading myself :)
<cbx33> dutchie, awesome
<cbx33> yup that's mine
<hamitron> evening all
<cbx33> feel free to proof, add, modify etc :)
<cbx33> bbiab
<nucc1> cbx33, a "two thumbs up" is the best contribution i can make at the moment :p
<HazRPG> am I missing something?
<HazRPG> git for humans  book?
<nucc1> HazRPG, https://github.com/cbx33/gitt
<nucc1> can send you a pdf if you prefer :p
<HazRPG> calibre should be able to parse the LaTex shouldn't it
<nucc1> i wouldn't know...
<dutchie> HazRPG: i'd be surprised...
<nucc1> HazRPG, its easy enough to make a pdf. just clone the repo, and then run "make" in the gitt directory.
<nucc1> simple enough, but arguably requires the human to know how to check out a git repository, and then know that they need to run "make".
<nucc1> a chicken and egg problem.
<nucc1> but, then again, one can argue that there always need to be minimum standards :)
<HazRPG> nucc1: hmm, github does have a download button too though ^.^
<HazRPG> make I can do though
<HazRPG> just never used git or svn without a GUI before
<nucc1> HazRPG, lol. my mind. it's playing tricks on me. I don't think i've ever noticed it :p
 * HazRPG did checkout mangos from github using TortoiseGit
 * nucc1 wonders about tortoises and mangoes.
<HazRPG> nucc1: might be cos you've never needed to look for it ;)
<nucc1> the name of the site kind of sets my mind into assuming that i need to git clone :p, and the display of the clone url in an ostensible place worsens it
<cbx33> nucc1, agreed on the minimum standard problem
<HazRPG> apparently I need pdflatex, and its not in apt-get
<HazRPG> as far as I can see at least
<cbx33> arguably this is not the "final" method of distrubution though
<nucc1> HazRPG, you need latex tools. just install tetex-live? or so
<nucc1> HazRPG, i don't know how i got mine, i installed lyx.
<cbx33> HazRPG, yeh, it's not the package itself
<cbx33> maybe Ishould change thewording
<cbx33> I didn't wantto make it distro specific instructions
<cbx33> as I said....at the moment, most of the people "getting" the book i would expect to be wanting to do some preproofing - or deving
<nucc1> cbx33, it makes sense to include ubuntu instructions. that's the most popular distro.
<cbx33> when i come to release it...it'll be PDF
<nucc1> if you like, you can use the 3 most popular distros.
<cbx33> and or buy it on some site
<cbx33> good plan
<cbx33> nucc1, I'll sort that out tomorrow
<cbx33> gotta catch some sleep now
<nucc1> sure thing.
<HazRPG> nucc1, cbx33: ah
<HazRPG> cbx33: later dude
<cbx33> but thanks for the support guys
<HazRPG> if I notice anything, what would you prefer me to do?
<cbx33> fork on github
<nucc1> cbx33, you're the one breaking your back :) he he
<HazRPG> cbx33: sure :)
<cbx33> HazRPG, there is also the html included in the repo
<cbx33> but if you're going to edit - the LaTeX docs would be most helpful
<cbx33> thanks so much guys :) - I hope to do some more "writing" tomorrow instead of admin :)
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> peace out dude
<|Dreams|> annyone tried new virgin super hub aka super shite?
<nucc1> |Dreams|, what the heck is that?
<|Dreams|> Viegin media knocking out new modem/router in one bag of shite
<|Dreams|> virgn*
<|Dreams|> dear my typos
<|Dreams|> virgin media**
 * HazRPG downloading texlive
<|Dreams|> horrible piece of tech
<|Dreams|> urgh
<|Dreams|> wireless is rubbish, no advanced functions like dd-wrt
<nucc1> is it a forced upgrade?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-05
<|Dreams|> speed is 30% lower at least
<|Dreams|> i moved home tech cudnt get old modem to work apperently
<|Dreams|> so fitted this new bag of rubbishnes
<nucc1> as i understand, you can buy your own cable modem.
<|Dreams|> i was quite happy wit m old modem and my dd-wrt router
<nucc1> the new one doesn't have ethernet ports?
<|Dreams|> also has problems with multiple xbox 360s i have 5 in this house lol
<nucc1> you can simply turn off the wireless, and route the internet to your own dd-wrt box.
<|Dreams|> yes but i have 5 laptops in a three storey building
<nucc1> you have a dd-wrt box, right?
<|Dreams|> plus 2 s3's 5 xbox 360,s 2 wii's an a ds and two androids
<nucc1> hook it up to the virgin box with a cable.
<|Dreams|> ps3s***
<nucc1> turn off the wireless on the virgin box, enable wireless on the dd-wrt
<nucc1> and place it on the middle floor.
<|Dreams|> yeah i thought of this but i am just pissed that they tryin to force ppl to use shit they make
<nucc1> they don't force.
<|Dreams|> quite annoyed actually
<nucc1> they just capitalize on ignorance.
<|Dreams|> they do to new customers
<nucc1> as i understand, i could have declined the box if i knew i could use my own cable modem.
<|Dreams|> there dlink 615 old cable modem was best offer n best combi they had in ages
<|Dreams|> i told the tech i wanted my old modem
<|Dreams|> he cudnt get it to work
<|Dreams|> "apperently"
<|Dreams|> i told him i had a dd-wrthe didnt even kno what it was lol
<|Dreams|> wrt-he*
<nucc1> you didn't need to give him any more information than "i want to use my own modem"
<nucc1> and the mac address of said modem.
<|Dreams|> rightly or not he had to put new modem/router in n i cant stick it going to phone them tomoz get new modem sent out been a customer 5 years and being spoon fed a shit router is not on
<|Dreams|> i got 51mbps on my dd
<|Dreams|> get 33 now
<|Dreams|> they bringing out an option for it to be cable modem only in new update
<|Dreams|> cant wait
<HazRPG> hmm, well I think I've found one mistake already
<HazRPG> page 9,  5th line in: âIt appears that way.â Said John sullenly.
<shauno> I know it's wrong in theory, but I usually stick full stops inside quotes now
<shauno> the alternative just seems like invalid nesting
<ali1234> my brother does copy editing among other things, apparently it depends on context
<shauno> wouldn't surprise me, because I'd want a comma in that excerpt.  and .. that way"., said John .. can't possibly be correct
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> if the . or , is part of what you are quoting as in this case, it goes inside
<ali1234> but if you're just using scare quotes around something at the end of the sentence, then it goes outside
<ali1234> so it nearly always goes inside
<ali1234> with exclamation mark it is even more obvious
<HazRPG> oh, I was getting at the fact that it says "sullenly" instead of "suddenly"
<ali1234> sullenly is fine?
<HazRPG> oh?
<HazRPG> ah, would seem so
<ali1234> i think it said should not be capitalized though, and it should be a comma not a full stop
<shauno> sullen fits, unless there's more context that's relevant
<ali1234> is this the book about git?
<HazRPG> ali1234: yup
<ali1234> it's written like a novel?
<ali1234> with like, characters?
<HazRPG> yeah
<ali1234> interesting, i will check it out
<HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/ebook/gitt.pdf if you don't want to check it out from the git and convert it
<HazRPG> see, now I think that either sullenly, or suddenly could be used in this context
<HazRPG> just depends how he's trying to come accross
<ali1234> they could, but they would mean totally different things
<ali1234> is there a place to report bugs?
<HazRPG> that's my point
<HazRPG> he suggested just making a fork of it
<ali1234> d and l are pretty far apart :)
<ali1234> i don't know how to fix these bugs
<HazRPG> d and l?
<ali1234> but the page numbers are bouncing around all over the place, what's that about?
<shauno> as I understand it, that's how git works.  you fork, make changes, and file a 'pull request' against the original
<ali1234> i know how to use git :)
<ali1234> i don't know how to write latex or whatever this is
<HazRPG> yeah latex
<HazRPG> latex is pretty simple - similar to other meta-type stuff
<HazRPG> \chapter{chapter 1 or whatever}
<HazRPG> \section{Sub title I think is what this is for}
<HazRPG> etc
<shauno> reading that, I think sullen is intended
<shauno> syn. glum; dude's not happy because their work has been trashed
<shauno> it's difficult to suddenly answer something you've been asked
<HazRPG> but he's also angered, so he could be trying to say the statement quickly too though... so I guess either could be used really
<shauno> that'd be sharp, not sudden :)
<ali1234> unless... you're william... shatner
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> well originally I didn't realise sullenly was a word - but well, makes sense if it is a word that this is the word the author intended to use
<HazRPG> seems that there are latex WYSIWYG editors out there
<HazRPG> I can understand why he's used latex instead of a document type though
<ali1234> sure
<HazRPG> since its in a git repo, its easier to see diff's
<HazRPG> plus it can be exported in any format (just about) with ease
<HazRPG> also, I think the page moving about is intended
<shauno> and it was designed for typesetting, rather than secretaries
<HazRPG> shauno: makes sense
<HazRPG> ali1234: I think the reason the page moves about is because he's planning on publishing it... and the page numbers will look fine in printed form. Left page, page number on far left; right page, page number of the far right.
<HazRPG> s/of/on
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> sure. now explain page 7 to me :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: oh, and page 5
<HazRPG> didn't notice those
<ali1234> it happens on first page of a chapter/week
<shauno> having 5 low, 6 book'd and 7 low just looks .. funky
<ali1234> probably intentional but... i don't like it... and i don't think i'd like it in print form either
<shauno> I'd have to agree.  if I discover chapter 10 is on page 81 in the index, I'm flicking thru the numbers looking for 81
<HazRPG> ali1234: could be how he wants it to be formed?
<shauno> not the mysterious gap between 79 and 83
<ali1234> right, exactly
<shauno> agree that it's pretty subjective, but can see why it's jarring
<HazRPG> does seem odd, but at least its consistently odd
<HazRPG> because each chapter has the number on the bottom
<HazRPG> easier to those who spit to find a chapter
<HazRPG> s/spit/skip
<HazRPG> don't know what's going on with my typing today :/
<shauno> (paper-only consideration, it's also physically odd to flick thru the center of pages.  corners almost flick themselves)
<shauno> probably something that's easy to toy with once it's done, so not a huge concern.  but since you bring it up :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Thirty Years On - http://popey.com/blog/2011/03/05/thirty-years-on/
<HazRPG> I was just looking through the latex code
<HazRPG> seems there's no mention of pages, so it must be defined like that by default
<shauno> it's probably inherited from a template
<HazRPG> shauno: that does seem apparent
<HazRPG> there's a gitt.toc file that seems to mention something about pages
<shauno> \documentclass[a5paper,openright,12pt]{memoir}
<shauno> the {memoir} bit
<shauno> http://www.tex.ac.uk/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/memoir/memman.pdf  is memoir's manual, and also has the same numbering pattern
<HazRPG> oh, I was thinking more: \chapternumberline
<HazRPG> as seen here: \contentsline {chapter}{\chapternumberline {}Week 1}{7}{chapter.2}
<HazRPG> seems only the chapters have \chapternumberline
<HazRPG> could have something to do with that
<HazRPG> shauno: actually, seems you are right ^^
<HazRPG> I changed it to article
<HazRPG> and now the pages are at the bottom, however the document is now... erm... messed up
<HazRPG> guessing its because the rest of the document use memoir styled formatting, instead of article-based
<HazRPG> mainly the ToC that seems to be messed up though
<HazRPG> so doesn't seem like it would be hard to fix
<shauno> I *think* if you put \aliaspagestyle{chapter}{simple} in gitt.tex, before \begin{document}
<HazRPG> with the included {article} or {memoir} part?
<shauno> still with memoir
<ali1234> see this is why i don't do latex :)
<shauno> I'm not quite OCD enough to go download 1.6Gb worth of mactex to find out :)
<HazRPG> 1.6Gb?
<shauno> mhm
<HazRPG> the book is only 135.2 tar-ed
<HazRPG> 135.2KB
<shauno> yeah, but I don't have TeX installed
<HazRPG> ah, I grabbed the smaller version
<HazRPG> texlive-base I think it was
<HazRPG> sorry just texlive
<shauno> on the mac, I have two options.  a pkg with the entire kit & kaboodle, and whatever else the mac-tex-user-group thought they'd throw in there for sentimental value
<shauno> or build it myself
<HazRPG> ah, I forget your on a mac
<HazRPG> my mistake
<HazRPG> heh I give up
<HazRPG> \aliaspagestyle{chapter}{simple} just made it even more messed up
<shauno> sweet :)
<HazRPG> now there's some pages with page numbers at the top xD
<shauno> that's what I was aiming for
<HazRPG> along with the other ones being at the bottom, and some at the left and right
<HazRPG> so it looks really barmey now
<shauno> two numbers on the same page?
<HazRPG> nope, same as it was before - except the first page has it at the top (the blank page)
<HazRPG> the page is also bigger
<shauno> hm.  it shouldn't get bigger.  a5 is specified elsewhere
<HazRPG> first page is bigger and has the number at the top
<HazRPG> rest are still as-is
<HazRPG> seems the first page is a4
<shauno> that is odd.  the front page isn't a {chapter}, so the alias shouldn't touch it
<HazRPG> also errors out on the make pdf
<HazRPG> so could be why
<shauno> oh well
<shauno> so the lesson is that it is a global thing that just needs to be tweaked in one place
<shauno> and that 3 minutes in the docs isn't enough to figure out where that one place is :)
<HazRPG> yes :)
<shauno> but that's the general idea.  {memoir} specifies a few different page styles
<shauno> and then chapter, frontmatter, titlepage, etc are pointers to those styles
<HazRPG> indeed
 * HazRPG gives up... moves on
<ali1234> i'm surprised it took these guys 3 weeks to get to "git log"
<HazRPG> might add in the to-do (different page style?)
<HazRPG> ali1234: ?
<shauno> not sure I'd even go that far.  just find a polite way to ask if that's what he's actually going for, or if he's working on the content and hasn't started fighting with layouts :)
<HazRPG> the dude working on it, is barely ever on here (as far as I can tell at least)
<shauno> there's a very real chance that 'writing the book' is a priority over 'playing with the meta'
<HazRPG> very true
<HazRPG> ali1234: oh, heh I thought you meant the author did... yeah, in the boot it does seem odd, but well they've never used it before (I don't think) as far as the book's characters are concerned - I think :S
<HazRPG> wasn't really focusing properly when I was reading it earlier
<shauno> almost dragged the amiga out today, and then remembered I'm still using it's monitor :(
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> I almost dragged out my Sharp
<ali1234> ok, finished skimming
<ali1234> where do i send my list of problems?
<HazRPG> but then realised I don't own any of the old coax cables to put it to the TV
<shauno> I'd imagine there's stuff like that that's somewhat dramatised to fit the book
<ali1234> i see github has an issue tracker, will use that
<HazRPG> ali1234: like I said, when I asked him - he said fork out the git and just commit it back
<hamitron> my ZX is still setup ;)
<shauno> "so they sat down, read the docs, and figured it out.  The End." would make a pretty weak chapter 2
<HazRPG> shauno: haha true
<HazRPG> ali1234: ooo, yeah I just noticed that too
<shauno> my miggy is sort of setup.  except I stole the monitor because my laptop's screen borked
<HazRPG> ali1234: :)
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah I remember you mentioned something about that when I was non-stop on minecraft
<HazRPG> I go through phases
<shauno> "this week, I 'ave been mostly eating ..."
<HazRPG> :p
<shauno> I've a funny feeling I left the cardreader for the miggy at work too, which makes moving stuff onto it a little awkward
<ali1234> how do you put a card reader on amiga?
<shauno> pcmcia to compact flash adaptor
<shauno> nifty because my camera uses CF too, so I've a few spare cards, and a usb reader for the laptop
<shauno> use that with easyadf to turn interwebs into floppies
<shauno> http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=440  is the most sensible â¬16 I've spent on the thing
<HazRPG> wait, so your old amiga supports flash cards (sort of)?
<shauno> yes
<HazRPG> pretty impressed
<HazRPG> my sharp has an expansion port - but I think it was mainly designed for a receipt printer
<HazRPG> I doubt anyone's used it for anything else :(
<HazRPG> still has a tape drive though
<shauno> CF is surprisingly easy to support on odd devices.  they're ide-compatible, so anything that's figured out how to use cheap harddrives, can figure out CF
<ali1234> i have a IDE-CF adapter, don't really think of CF as memory cards any more though
<ali1234> they're almost as legacy as the amiga itself
<HazRPG> hehe
<shauno> I tried a couple of ide-cf adaptors, and never found one it liked
<ali1234> so you can boot a disk image from CF on PCMCIA?
<HazRPG> I wish all computer still came with a tape drive :/
<shauno> I can't boot from it from pcmcia, no
<HazRPG> or at least a VHS tape drive
<shauno> there's a driver for it on the easyadf disk, so it's furniture until workbench is loaded
<HazRPG> because video was stored on those in raw format, I can image that some compressed data on those would mean it could store a fair few gigabytes on them
<ali1234> i think it's about 1GB per tape
<ali1234> i could tell you exactly... VHS has about 3mhz bandwidth
<HazRPG> wow...
<HazRPG> really?
<ali1234> yes really
<HazRPG> hmm...
<ali1234> by comparison, teletext needs 6mhz, but only uses about 16 out of 625 lines
<HazRPG> hmm, so pretty slow then huh
<ali1234> by another comparison, a mini DV tape holds about 6GB iirc
<shauno> I remember reading about that when I was reading about the TIA chip in the amiga 2600
<ali1234> wat
<shauno> I always had this mental picture that the teletext lines were 'just off the top' of the screen
<ali1234> i never heard of such things
<ali1234> what's an amiga 2600?
<HazRPG> I'll tell ya what, I use to remember how long it took to load up stuff on my Sharp from tape, it would take the time to make a cup of tea (literally) and have a sandwich before it would load up
<ali1234> they *are* literally just off the top of the screen
<ali1234> if you mess with vhold you can see them
<shauno> turns out it's sent in the time it takes the beam to reset from bottom-right to top-left
<ali1234> same thing
<shauno> well I mean, it's not in lines that would otherwise be used for picture
<shauno> (could, sure, would, no)
<ali1234> right
<HazRPG> has a vision of teletext looking funny on HD displays
<ali1234> digital TV being not analogue, sends nothing in the VBL, just whole frames
<ali1234> so teletext on DVB get's it's own packets in the mpeg stream
<ali1234> there's a whole standard for it
<ali1234> but ofcom banned it in favour of that red button rubbish
<shauno> I'd just never thought about the beam actually taking time to get back, until I read dev notes for the atari.  which has almost no video buffering at all, so that time is the time you get to actually compute anything other than the picture itself
<shauno> suddenly the travel time becomes significant
<ali1234> oh, you meant atari 2600
<shauno> yeah
<ali1234> that makes sense
<shauno> sorta.  both, really.  the 2600 is where I realised there's actually a gap there that teletext is exploiting.  rather than stealing lines that'd otherwise be useful
<shauno> by time I was old enough to do anything remotely useful with computers, we already had blitters.  so it was an eye-opener to think of the screen's timing as being relevant at all
<ali1234> hmm... forking on github was painless enough
<HazRPG> think there's a market for selling ubuntu computers?
<ali1234> no
<shauno> I think it's "almost but not quite"
<shauno> close enough that people keep trying.  not close enough for them to stick with it
<HazRPG> bugger
<ali1234> how is pull request formed?
<gord> yes there is a market, just not a very big one, yo uwon't get rich
<HazRPG> me and a few mates are just getting sick of crappy jobs
<shauno> I wouldn't be surprised if linuxemporium are still doing it.  they were trying hardware before it was cool
<ali1234> PC market is shrinking IMO
<HazRPG> one's a network admin, and he's currently in the process of "maybe made redundant" ... "maybe not" ... stage, because of a school/college merge so that its just one college with several campuses ... and another who's been working in booze shops for years (but is skilled in maths, programming, hardware) ... and me, currently doing freelance but with barely any work most of the time because cumbria is pants
<shauno> same problem as everyone else in the beige-box market tho.  you can't beat dell for price.  so you've gotta figure out where you can beat them.  and whether people will pay for it
<ali1234> don't get into the hardware biz :)
<ali1234> make the next facebook or something instead, more chance of success
<hamitron> reselling dell ftw ;)
<hamitron> only nobody is spending money atm :/
<ali1234> or make mobile apps
<ali1234> especially tablety, AR, social stuff
<shauno> that's gotta saturate at some point.  there's only so many fart soundboards one iphone can hold
<hamitron> do you think there will come a time when C/C++ is wanted again?
<ali1234> what do you mean "again"?
<gord> yeah not many people make much money on iphone these days
<ali1234> C/C++ isn;t going anywhere
<shauno> it still is.  it's just not a buzzword
<hamitron> I mean, money is crap
<hamitron> in a lot of comp stuff now
<ali1234> of course
<shauno> I think the "right way" is to do crossplatform is to stick the business end in C, and wrap it in whatever moonspeak each target environment wants
<shauno> (minus some spare words.  it's 2am ..)
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> everyone I know just says "java"
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> heh, yeah I keep hearing java a lot recently too :/
<hamitron> although, I just don't care atm
<shauno> disclaimer, I really don't like java
<shauno> but I don't think that's the "right way" anymore
<ali1234> java ._.
<HazRPG> I mean my second year of my HND we were forced to take Java instead of Advanced C++ as a module (I mean be paraphrasing, but it was because some were thicker than others in the class to take AdvC++)
<shauno> you're not going to look at the cash cow that is the iSheep one day, and decide to start sticking that java on iphones
<HazRPG> s/mean/may
<hamitron> I personally think computers will die in their current form
<ali1234> you should not worry about what language you are using, i mean you should be able to use them all. the most important thing is to hire someone who can sell your product
<ali1234> because nobody actually cares about quality
<hamitron> tough times :)
 * HazRPG feels sad that the whole computing era seems to be a dying breed
<hamitron> I don't think coding will die
<HazRPG> I think the problem is, everyone knows how to at least use one now
<ali1234> computers aren't going to go away
<HazRPG> oh I don't doubt that for a second
<shauno> I don't look it as an era dying
<ali1234> they will just go back to being a niche market like they were before about 2000
<hamitron> ali1234: you don't think they will get smaller, cheaper and just "picked off the shelf" more?
<ali1234> those aren't computers
<hamitron> not as we know them, no
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> those are appliances
<hamitron> so is a computer?
<hamitron> ;/
<shauno> think when cars were new, and bought by the eccentrics that thought it was a novel horse replacement
<ali1234> people who bought into the hype around windows XP and the internet in 2000 will upgrade to an appliance
<shauno> we're moving from that, to every man and his dog has a car.
<ali1234> everyone who actually cares (~1% of the people who actually own PCs today) will continue buying real computers
<ali1234> this will be what kills microsoft btw
<ali1234> they're already dying, they just haven't realised it yet
<hamitron> unless they make the xbox platform the platform of choice
<HazRPG> hamitron: I highly doubt it
<hamitron> I thought sony were ahead of the game, but then they removed the otheros option
<HazRPG> hamitron: don't remind me :(
<ali1234> that *is* ahead of the game
<shauno> meh. big picture, no-one cared about the otheros thing
 * hamitron did
<ali1234> this is where things are going: locked down appliances that can only run approved software
<ali1234> this is unavoidable
<hamitron> oh yeh ali1234
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> shauno: I bought mine under the sole reason that it could have linux
<ali1234> it's not even particularly bad, i mean you don't have to buy one
<hamitron> but I felt the otheros option was there to attract users to use an appliance as their comp
<shauno> I can't think of a practical scale to explain what sort of minority that puts you in
<shauno> one-legged trousers may be a bigger % of the market
<hamitron> I was going to buy a ps3 the week they removed it
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> shauno: I mean I already owned an x360, wii, ds, psp... and since most games for x360 are coming out on ps3 too - my only real reason for a ps3 was for RPG's and Linux
<ali1234> thing is, there's no reason you can't buy an appliance and a real computer
<hamitron> but now I decided not to bother, and upgraded my pc for gaming
<ali1234> and there never will be, because engineers need real computers to make appliances
<hamitron> but even "real" computers won't be made of seperate bits
<shauno> I think they will
<ali1234> but that's pretty much it. the general public does not need powerful tools like windows XP (lol) to go on facebook. an iphone is plenty, no matter how locked down.
<HazRPG> hamitron: I highly doubt that
<shauno> I think PC is going to recede back into what was essentially an enthusiast market
<ali1234> shauno: that's what i said just now :)
<shauno> making 'bits' pretty much defacto
<hamitron> so prices will rise again
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> but not much because things like screens and GPU and CPU are the same
<shauno> that was what I was trying to get at with my awful car analogy.  they've gone from being eccentric toys, to transport for the masses
<ali1234> and RAM and flash memory
<shauno> but you're still going to have petrolheads.  and a market to serve them
<HazRPG> indeed
<hamitron> I just feel something similar to the Eee boxes will replace most "work" appliances
<HazRPG> makes me feel I shouldn't have bothered pursuing a career in IT
<HazRPG> so far it hasn't done me much good
<hamitron> imo biggest problem with working in IT sector: loads of idiots have gone into it
<ali1234> lol
<hamitron> get a 6 week qualification and setup a comp chop
<hamitron> shop*
<HazRPG> hamitron: is that the one that was recently in confs. about having everything served from one computer to share several screens/keyboards/mice?
<shauno> IT bugs me at the moment because it's a complete buzzword frenzy now
<shauno> it's basically cloud or go home
<ali1234> if i hear "ecosystem" one more time i might tear my own ears off
<shauno> there is very little specialization anymore
<hamitron> HazRPG: I am not sure the exact route it will take, depends on demand
<ali1234> everyone wants to do everything
<HazRPG> shauno: in all fairness it always was after the 80's boom of computers, its been one buzzword after the next (if the documentary Micro Men is anything to go by)
<ali1234> this is what ecosystem means
<HazRPG> ali1234: agreed
<ali1234> everyone has to have an app store, a music store, a web mail, and a social network
<HazRPG> web 2.0 right ? *waves arms in a sarcastic manner*
<ali1234> but that is a market where it only works when there's only 1 such provider otherwise it sucks for everyone
<hamitron> 1 will probably win
<hamitron> or at least some will die
<ali1234> nobody corporate is going to displace facebook for social, or apple for music
<shauno> thing is tho, it's still a helluva wave if you can figure out how to ride it
<HazRPG> ali1234: I don't know a single person that uses apple for music :S
<ali1234> so anyone with a mission that says "we want to beat facebook and apple and google at their own games" is just deluding themselves
<shauno> HazRPG: yes you do :p
<ali1234> i mean just taking on any one of them is bad enough
<HazRPG> shauno: guessing you do then :P
<ali1234> to take them all on at once is a war on multiple fronts
<shauno> yup.  unashamed fanboi
<ali1234> yes Nokia, i am looking at you are your Ovi "ecosystem"
<HazRPG> I dislike the spelling boi - but yeah
<ali1234> stick to making good phones!
<shauno> they're a fantastic example of the change not being the end tho
<hamitron> yeh :)
<shauno> you can lament that computers are turning into consumer appliances.  apple just claimed their iOS devices are the majority of their income now
<ali1234> i don't have a problem with it
<hamitron> Nokia's problem was symbian and lack of movement, and unclear direction
<HazRPG> am I the only one that still bye's CD's?
<ali1234> computing got along just fine without the masses, it will continue to do so
<HazRPG> buys*
<ali1234> yeah probably
<shauno> HazRPG: I've bought one CD since .. 2001
 * HazRPG starting to annoy self with bad spelling mistakes
<hamitron> I buy all my music on CD
<hamitron> I expect physical copies
<HazRPG> hamitron: I liked the symbian :/
<hamitron> I do
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> I spent everything I had on physical media in my teenage years
<shauno> I've moved country three times since then, and have absolutely no idea where any of it is
<hamitron> I refuse to spend money on something that is just data normally
<HazRPG> I would still use my nokia's if it wasn't for the fact that the only way to update the software was to plug it into the computer and hope one exists that fixes the major bug that seems to only affect me
<shauno> there's numbered vinyl in there and all.  I just literally have no idea where it is.
<HazRPG> shauno: ouch
<hamitron> do you guys buy music online?
<shauno> I do
<hamitron> :-o
<HazRPG> shauno: sounds like me, I have many books that /would/ be worth something (first prints) ... but can't find a single one of them :(
<ali1234> does having a free spotify count?
<hamitron> it scares me, think I am a techy technophobe
<shauno> HazRPG: I'm pretty sure I know what country my pre-1998 CDs are in.  not 100% sure, but a good idea
<HazRPG> I have 2 houses alone (about a mile apart) to look through, then 3 flats & 2 villas in egypt and 1 flat in saudi after that with stuff all spread between them all :/
<hamitron> you need to work? ;)
<shauno> my heart bleeds purple expletives :p
<shauno> I tend to lose things because when I move, I cross timezones.  and when I do, I do it in one suitcase
<HazRPG> hamitron: I donate money to Jamendo, the artists I like, if that counts?
<hamitron> donating is different
<shauno> this is why my car's in michigan :(
<HazRPG> shauno: I know the feeling, I have issues 1-100 of sonic the comic in saudi in a tin box
<ali1234> i have an ovi comes with music account too, also free
<ali1234> but it sucks
<hamitron> jumping through the hoops apple put up, and giving them money just seems like it is along the path to renting music to me
<shauno> HazRPG: a tin box would be fantastic
<shauno> apple's hoops are largely a myth
<HazRPG> shauno: whenever I've moved, my parents said "send your stuff by cargo"
<hamitron> renting the use of their device you bought too
<hamitron> shauno: like the iPad only including 2 upgrades?
<shauno> the music's drm free. aac is standardized.
<shauno> if I want to play my itunes library on linux, there is absolutely nothing stopping me
<ali1234> hamitron: there isn't much use complaining about it. people will find out for themselves why it is a bad idea
<HazRPG> you know, for every time I read "Terms of use may vary" I got a penny, I'd be a rich man
<ali1234> it will take about 10 years, just like it did with microsoft
<hamitron> ali1234: sorry, I myself am like a broken record :D
<shauno> hamitron: I expect everyone else's hardware is going to find itself EOL'd after a number of OS upgrades too
<shauno> they just don't tell you up front, so they're the good guys
<shauno> are there android phones that won't run honeycomb?
<hamitron> I don't think the android market is good either ;/
<hamitron> I personally think it is moving too fast
<shauno> the difference with the "two upgrades" thing is that you've been told how far into the future you will be supported for
<hamitron> as is ubuntu
<shauno> instead of finding out that your phone isn't shiny enough for the new OS
<HazRPG> hamitron: don't worry, I can be like a broken record too sometimes (and because I do it myself, I find it hard to spot it in other people)
<HazRPG> I think android is missing a trick somewhere...
<shauno> it's missing clout
<hamitron> and consistency
<HazRPG> I mean just think, each update means waves & waves of update rollouts
<shauno> the carriers get to wield the power.  and there's not a single telco out there that can be trusted with it
<hamitron> a platform needs to stick around for a while, to become popular and accepted
<HazRPG> sure hardware may vary, but wouldn't it be better to have it set in stone kernel-side?
<HazRPG> I mean I doubt it'd get too big surely?
<hamitron> good to standardise hardware imo
<shauno> I think the whole mess is too young for standardize
<HazRPG> hamitron: most of the android phones pretty much are
<hamitron> less regular upgrades
<hamitron> shauno: maybe everyone jumped on it before it was ready :)
<shauno> it's going to grow out of it's clothes every single year.  this is how children work.
<hamitron> I do agree with you
<shauno> you try to slow it in it's infant stages, and it's going to be stunted for life
<hamitron> yeh :/
<HazRPG> I still think android is missing a trick :/
<hamitron> imo, carriers need to maybe make 1 version a standard stable industry standard, then switch version every few years
<hamitron> but have the development version free to move forward
<shauno> I think they should stick with rolling excitement for now, and let people buy in as often or as infrequently as they like
<hamitron> I probably will
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> increases profits
<HazRPG> increases wide-spread of linux \o/
<hamitron> I can see it giving linux a bad name
<shauno> this is the other side of appliances
<HazRPG> I just wish the penguin would be shown at least somewhere in its marketing
<shauno> people aren't used to sticking a new OS on their phone every few years
<shauno> you get what you bought, and you'll get something newer, next time you buy it
<shauno> normal people think about upgrading their phone's OS, about as often as you think about giving your dishwasher a firmware upgrade
<HazRPG> yeah, but from my observation the popularity of android seems to be partly based on the fact that people know updates are coming in thick & fast
<speedxco1e> anyone awake? =)
<shauno> speedxco1e: sleepranting is popular here :)
<hamitron> ranting? us? ;)
<HazRPG> speedxco1e: at least 4 people are yes :)
<HazRPG> shauno: agreed :)
<HazRPG> I like our past-midnight rants :)
<hamitron> :))
<speedxco1e> I'm trying yo learn how to copy files by modification date. I got one folder with 100s of folders created over years. I just need this year.
<HazRPG> and discussions
<HazRPG> and "haz is thick, but insists on  being right" talks :)
<speedxco1e> I'm looking into piping find or using rsync.
<speedxco1e> that is the best?
<speedxco1e> *what
<hamitron> I would use piping
<shauno> I'd just use find
<speedxco1e> if find alone enough?
<speedxco1e> *is
<shauno> find /path -mtime 52w -type f(ile) -exec do something with "{}" ";"
<shauno> (I don't know if 1y works for years, but 52w works for weeks
<shauno> or s/m/d for sec/mins/days
<shauno> wikipedia tells me today is the 64th day of the year.  so I'd find -mtime 64d to return files modified this year
<shauno> (it'd probably catch 21 hours worth of files modified on 31st dec 2010, but I can live with that :)
<speedxco1e> shauno: thanks, I do some exprimentation
 * speedxco1e is a piping noob, but like to learn more.
<HazRPG> speedxco1e: heh I just imagined that your previous comment was ran through a mature filter just then - it amused me somewhat
<shauno> usually if you're looking for files that match a stat-able pattern, find is awesomely powerful :)
<speedxco1e> mastering piping seem to be an important part of mastering linux and unix systems
<shauno> certainly
<shauno> the 'unix way' is to have one tool for one job.  if the job's an odd one, you need to use multiple tools
<shauno> but if it's a job that has 'one tool' for it, don't make your life difficult :)
<HazRPG> agreed
<HazRPG> I like how linux has a tool for everything, but very little "I do everything!" tools - means less clutter, and less chance of failure and bugs :)
<shauno> I think it just makes a lot of things a lot more transparent
<HazRPG> just a case of mastering them
<HazRPG> I guess
<HazRPG> shauno: let me know what you think of this, been toying with speed tables http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64
<HazRPG> I've put it in ogg/mp3/sid to make things easier
<shauno> you can come up with some pretty whacky one-liners, but the command is almost a sentence
<ali1234> sid files open in totem by default here
<ali1234> probably because i have resid installed
<shauno> this is almost funny.  I seem to have broken safari's handling of mp3s
<HazRPG> ali1234: brobostigon said he could on his totem too (and mine), so I don't think resid is necessary
<HazRPG> shauno is on mac as far as I'm aware though
<ali1234> ah
<shauno> if I click the mp3 link, I get a quicktime container that refuses to play.  if I click the ogg link, I get a quicktime container that *does* play
<HazRPG> hmm, that might be my fault
<shauno> nah, it's not the first place I've noticed it
<HazRPG> I just used audacity to make it
<shauno> I've a feeling I may have been a bit too violent persuading quicktime it could play some things
<HazRPG> ah ok, *phew*
<shauno> it sounds like it changes tempo several times at the beginning?
<HazRPG> I know the intro sounds wacky, my friend pointed it out to me earlier this evening
<shauno> around the 3 second mark, it can't seem to decide which way it's going
<shauno> did you settle on a tracker yet?
<HazRPG> yeah GoatTracker
<HazRPG> I couldn't get MilkyTracker to do anything :/
<ali1234> goattracker won't work unless you're running pulseaudio :(
<ali1234> i probably just need to recompile it
<HazRPG> ali1234: guessing your not
<shauno> never was fond of linux having 3 and a half audio subsystems
<ali1234> yeah wine audio doesn't work properly with pulse, works fine with alsa
<HazRPG> wine works on my side
<HazRPG> and I haven't changed anything
<ali1234> it works for a few hours then just stops
<HazRPG> 10.10, with wine beta (1.2.2?)
<HazRPG> ali1234: I had OpenMPT looping a song for about an hr without problems
<HazRPG> I get distracted, and forget what's playing half the time
<ali1234> it's very hardware dependent too
<HazRPG> I guess
<ali1234> get different results when using different number of cores to run wine for example
<HazRPG> pulseaudio is coming along nicely though, seems more are developing for it
<ali1234> thing is, even the PA devs recommend you develop to the alsa safe subset
<shauno> HazRPG: did you try sunvox along your travels?
<HazRPG> ali1234: what sort of getup/setup you got running at your end of the wires?
<HazRPG> shauno: I saw that one... didn't try it though
<ali1234> you mean, what computer do i have?
<HazRPG> ali1234: yes :)
<HazRPG> shauno: I pretty much dismissed anything that wasn't already in binary form
<ali1234> M4A79XTD, phenom 2 x4 3.2ghz, 4GB ram
<HazRPG> was in a lazy mood at the time
<ali1234> and geforce 240
<shauno> sunvox is in binary, just not packaged
<HazRPG> shauno: is it?
<HazRPG> might have to try it then
<shauno> the zip on their website contains a bunch of static binaries for various platforms
<ali1234> vice can emulate C64 midi cart btw
<ali1234> you can map sid registers to midi controls and stuff
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, no I see why I dismissed it now
<ali1234> and use a proper sequencer instead of a tracker
<HazRPG> ali1234: nice setup you've got :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: I can't seem to get vice going :(
<HazRPG> I have a feeling I'm missing a BIOS for it
<ali1234> you need to download the roms separately
<ali1234> read the readme it tells you where to get them
<HazRPG> hmm, where do they store those?
<ali1234> /usr/share/doc/vice
<HazRPG> I'm too use to C:\Program Files\ sadly :( (despite using linux since 2006)
<ali1234> synaptic, "installed files", ???, profit
<HazRPG> haha
<HazRPG> shauno: I just realised I didn't explain why I dismissed it - its because I thought the gui representation of the instruments, and chips (I think?) just seemed like a wacky concept
<HazRPG> shauno: also, wave forms put me off unless I'm working with raw sound files
<ali1234> you think modular synth is "wacky"?
<HazRPG> no, it just looks wacky
<shauno> I think waves are pretty relevant
<shauno> triangle vs saw vs sine vs rect is a huge part of what makes up the 'voices' for chips
<HazRPG> it might just be because GoatTracker was the first one I used - along with a GB tracker I owned years ago (despite not being able to get sound out of it at the time) - putting in numbers makes more sense to me then drawing waves myself
<HazRPG> reason I was having trouble with milky
<HazRPG> that and it would refuse to let me do anything fancy with the waves I made after I'd created them :/
<HazRPG> but that might just be ignorance on my part
<ali1234> when you put in those numbers you're really just typing in samples one sample at a time
<HazRPG> ali1234: I understand that, but /that/ makes more sense then seeing a wave length to me
<HazRPG> I don't understand why... I just know that the numbers seem to make more sense somehow
<hamitron> nn all o/
<HazRPG> hamitron: night dude
<HazRPG> hmm, not sure which ROM set to download
<HazRPG> vice-roms.tar.gz; vice-1.5-roms.tar.gz (as recommended in the readme);
<shauno> read it backwards :)
<shauno> me read the recommended vice-1.5-roms ...
<shauno> it's almost a sentence man.  it's a sign :)
<ali1234> go hang a salami! i'm a lasagna hog
<shauno> and with that, it's bedtime.  up since 5, so it's Time.
<shauno> last note.  you could remove all questions and go full on nerd.  http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Main/SID-shield
<HazRPG> shauno: heh I bought a pack that had a speaker with it, along with a few other bits from that
<HazRPG> shauno: however I'm not skilled enough to make a tune out of it all
<shauno> you can hook a sid up to it.  you apparently like stuffing numbers down sid's throat.  what else is there to it ?
<HazRPG> also, I got the vice-roms.tar.gz (seems to be the most current version)
<ali1234> ah, i need to install a libsdl with support for something other than pulseaudio
<HazRPG> true... but its different doing it this way, surely having a SID you'd have to put the numbers in by forming several timing circuits together
<HazRPG> ali1234: oh, doesn't libsdl support others?
<ali1234> it does but they are in separate packages
<HazRPG> ootb I mean
<HazRPG> ah
<ali1234> just need to switch it out
<HazRPG> now for the moment of truth with this rom pack (just cp'ed them in)
<HazRPG> nope, still got nothing :/
<HazRPG> ah 1.5 apparently has a few other files (typical)
<HazRPG> ooo, I got 2 out of 6 working :)
<HazRPG> having no luck with this
<HazRPG> keeps saying the kernal can't be loaded
<speedxco1e> find job2011 -mtime -120 -exec cp -rvu --preserve=timestamps "{}" buptest2011/ \;
<speedxco1e> I am doint it wrong =/
<speedxco1e> *doing
<speedxco1e> it takes files much older than 120days too..
<HazRPG> ali1234: managed to get that libsdl working dude?
<ali1234>  yeah
<HazRPG> I think its +120 not -120
<HazRPG> speedxco1e: or possibly try taking out the -/+ altogether and just leave as -mtime 120
<HazRPG> speedxco1e: from what I can tell, it needs to be a positive number either way
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, got them working :D
<HazRPG> although one complains about alsa, but I can live with that
<ali1234> had to report some bugs against another program that didn't like me uninstalling sdl-pulse
<HazRPG> ouch
<HazRPG> I wish the communities as a whole would pick one and stick with
 * HazRPG doesn't know what to do now with x64
<HazRPG> however my Sharp had a VERY similar interface to this... so would I be wrong in thinking they ran on a similar os?
<ali1234> it's possible
<ali1234> commodore did licence some stuff
<HazRPG> hmm, there's a mz700 emu for windows apparently
<HazRPG> oooooo, there's one for linux too!
<HazRPG> oh...
<HazRPG> under dosbox
<HazRPG> bah!
<ali1234> what's an mz700?
<ali1234> i've never heard of half these things
<HazRPG> Sharp MZ700 is the system I had
<HazRPG> came with BASIC and 2 game tapes
<HazRPG> http://www.sharpmz.org/index.html
<ali1234> wow, it had a built in datasette?
<HazRPG> yup :)
<ali1234> i wish i didn't thrown out my broken C64 and plotter
<HazRPG> :o!
<ali1234> was one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itu--nY-9bQ
<ali1234> for some reason i kept the crap dot matrix printer
<ali1234> still got that in a cupboard somewhere
<HazRPG> haha nice
<HazRPG> can't believe you threw that out, and a c64!
<ali1234> well it was broken and i was like 14 and my parents made me
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> just out of interest, what's your age?
<ali1234> 30
<HazRPG> see I never got the mz700 until I was 10
<HazRPG> and I'm guessing my dad had it for a few years before that
<HazRPG> ali1234: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAtSkZI8CE8
<ali1234> hmm there's one on ebay for Â£10
<HazRPG> really?
<HazRPG> I can't see any
<ali1234> the plotter, not the sharp
<HazRPG> ah
<ali1234> oh wow it's space harrier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs-4Zu0DN2g&NR=1
<ali1234> i was thinking about space harrier earlier after someone mentioned star fox, it's basically the same game but with sprites instead of 3d
<ali1234> those graphics are pretty good considering how big the pixels are
<HazRPG> oh wow
<HazRPG> yeah
<ali1234> good framerate and if you squint your eyes it looks quite good
<ali1234> i would imagine it looks a lot better on a blurry TV
<HazRPG> you know, I don't recall owning any coloured games for my mz700
<HazRPG> I'm beginning to think my TV couldn't use the MZ-700 properly
<ali1234> maybe it was pal/ntsc difference?
<HazRPG> because I don't remember there being colour
<ali1234> that will result in grey picture
<HazRPG> could be
<HazRPG> although I recall my tv had both pal/ntsc - because dad bought it from Saudi
<HazRPG> must have had an ntsc machine (or set to ntsc) and running it through pal settings
<HazRPG> although I can't see any videos of any of the games I had either
<HazRPG> they were just pre-loaded games that came on a tape with the machine
<ali1234> well the main rom screen was supposed to be blue from what i can see
<HazRPG> hmm, I remember it being blue
<HazRPG> maybe the games made/released with the machine were only grey scale
<HazRPG> ah, it was the mz721 I had to be exact
<HazRPG> because it had the tape drive
<ali1234> maybe the games were setting it to ntsc mode
<HazRPG> could be
<MartijnVdS> \o
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> ali1234: woo! Finally found them!
<HazRPG> ali1234: http://www.sharpmz.org/mz-700/10games.html
<HazRPG> those were the games I had on one tape
<HazRPG> and yeah it was colour, I clearly wasn't really paying attention back then
<HazRPG> I recall playing land escape it blue
<ali1234> circus star sounds like a great game
<HazRPG> haha, it was a really really odd game
<HazRPG> my favourite was Painful Man
<HazRPG> snake and snake was interesting to say the least
<HazRPG> hahaha
<HazRPG> ali1234, not sure but I think this story might interest you - it's a hacker called Morpheus who messed around with the c64... here's what he wrote in an interview with him years later (just a snip from the "any cool stories to share with us?" section): http://pastebin.com/NwWdqqMY
<HazRPG> interview was from: http://www.c64.com/
<ali1234> heh
<MartijnVdS> heh.. a record company sent me some American candy with a 7" I ordered :)
<MartijnVdS> just re-checked the envelope and found it
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: nice
<daubers> Morning
<HazRPG> daubers: morning
<daubers> I'm trying to decide if I want to goto the Museum of computings speccy programming thing
<daubers> popeys blog post almost had me booking tickets
<alexcockell> Morning..
 * daubers ponders if the speccy he has in pieces can be made to work
<alexcockell> Ahh - I remember those..
<optimusP> how to share a folder in VB guest windows xp NTFS
<AlanBell> daubers: I have been to the museum, small but really interesting
<daubers> AlanBell: I'm just interested in a bit of naustalgic speccy programming
<daubers> I won Â£10 on the lottery with my dads speccy
<knightwise> morning
<popey> morning
 * daubers blames popey
<daubers> popey: because of you I've got a spectrum and a soldering iron all over the kitchen table
<cbx333> ali1234, thanks for the fork :)
<daubers> Might get the offices metal worker people to quote me on an aluminium shell for it
<daubers> lovely black anodised one
<cbx333> HazRPG, the other thing that i will need some input on - is situations you find yourself in whilst using Git that others might find themselves in and not know how to solve necessarily
<cbx333> especially if there are multiple answers
<popey> haha daubers
<cbx333> hey popey
<daubers> hmmm
<daubers> need to get some connectors to run it into the ariel socket of the telle
<AlanBell> daubers: your challenge of the day is to splice in an HDMI output
<AlanBell> and don't forget to wire the overscan area to the speakers so the borders flicker when loading stuff!
<AlanBell> that was a totally bonkers bit of technical architecture
<daubers> AlanBell: If I get another chassis made, I'll get the fixing points made for the revo mobo
<popey> I love that the DS has the same screen resolution as the Spectrum :)
<AlanBell> trying to remember what that was
<AlanBell> I remember it was in three bands
<daubers> I've got the service manual if you want it
<daubers> complete with circuit diagrams
<AlanBell> black and white with a low resolution colour overlay
<popey> the DS speccy emulator even emulates it
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> oh the 3 bands
<popey> yes, 256x192
<daubers> ftp://ftp.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/technical-docs/ZXSpectrum48K_ServiceManual.pdf
<popey> 24 lines, 3 blocks of 8
<daubers> All computers should come with something like http://www.worldofspectrum.org/ZXBasicManual/
<AlanBell> I remember being really dissapointed that my Amiga manual didn't have circuit diagrams in it
<daubers> heh
<AlanBell> speccy basic was a great manual
<AlanBell> actually taught maths whilst explaining what the functions did
<daubers> I learnt algebra from that boot
<daubers> s/boot/book
<AlanBell> me too
<AlanBell> kids of today don't know what they are missing out on
<daubers> Exactley
<AlanBell> I remember when this was all fields
<daubers> And on that note I really should go to the parents and help them dig in 50 bags of mushroom compost
 * AlanBell heads of to Birmingham
<MooDoo> AlanBell: not going to the photography show are you ?
<popey> AlanBell: safe trip!
<AlanBell> MooDoo: nope, a birthday party with jelly and ice cream
<MooDoo> AlanBell: well safe trip and stop teasin :)
<livingdaylight> AvÃ© !
<livingdaylight> | AvÃ© Mandrake
<MooDoo> awesome blog post popey :)  remember the magazine Crash! :)
<popey> ta
<livingdaylight> Mandrake, I remember mandrake os
<livingdaylight> MooDoo, wha'ts it about ?
<MooDoo> livingdaylight: popeys computer history and his first the xz81 :)
<livingdaylight> wow
<livingdaylight> I don't even know what dat is?
<popey> o_O
<MooDoo> livingdaylight: how old are you?
<livingdaylight> MooDoo, :s
<MooDoo> livingdaylight: i didn't mean anything by it :) just if you're a whipper snapper you might not know what it is :)
<livingdaylight> MooDoo, I think i had a deprived childhood
<MooDoo> lol i'm referring to the Sinclair ZX81
<MooDoo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX81
<livingdaylight> our famous inventor, wasn't he?
<MooDoo> livingdaylight: yes, Sir Clive Sinclair
<popey> http://www.reghardware.com/2011/03/04/sinclair_zx81_anniversary/
<popey> 30 years old today
<MooDoo> you youngsters today :D lol
<livingdaylight> I watched Revolution OS yesterday... still good to see
<MooDoo> livingdaylight: very good film :)
<livingdaylight> amazing how it all came together
<livingdaylight> opensource is the best
<livingdaylight> so many opensource initiatives now besides software
<MooDoo> livingdaylight: yup :) get in while the iron is hot :)
<dwatkins> a vote for regular backups here: my other half tried triple-booting her Macbook Pro and it paniced during resizing of the windows partition, and had to be restored from the latest backup, but that had failed, so the previous backup had to be used.
<livingdaylight> Mandrake, AvÃ©
<livingdaylight> is it best to install on VB using cd or iso image? trying to launch from cd here but after initially starting up it seems to go no where
<popey> dwatkins: +1
<dwatkins> popey: I can't believe it paniced during resize
 * dutchie notes that his backups have been failing for the past x weeks
 * dutchie uncomments the important line
<dwatkins> A backup isn't a backup until it's been successfully verified
<livingdaylight> always back your backup up
<dwatkins> livingdaylight: that was the other thing that occurred, having two separate physical copies as well
<popey> dwatkins: what was doing the resize?
<dwatkins> popey: the standard installer, I think - the GUI
<popey> uhm
<popey> which OS?
<dwatkins> turns out it didn't panic, bug gave an error which couldn't be rescued from, so may as well have paniced
<dwatkins> 10.10 64-bit
<popey> i wouldn't do a rezise on a mbp with ubuntu
<popey> I'd use disk utility in osx
<dwatkins> oh right. do you use refit as the boot mgr?
<popey> yes
<dwatkins> cool
<dwatkins> do you know of any instructions (i.e. a howto) that's current etc.?
<dwatkins> the one we were following is from the heady days of Ubuntu 8.04
<popey> for which bit?
<dwatkins> after xp is installed to create an ubuntu partition etc. and install
<popey> so you have osx and xp?
<popey> split between the two, no spare disk space?
<dwatkins> that was the stage this mbp was at yesterday, it's just being restored from the backup due to the resize problem trashing the entire disk
<popey> not sure, i dont have windows on mine
<dwatkins> aha I see
<popey> I'd probably not be where you are tbh
<dwatkins> Which Ubuntu do you have on yours? Does all the hardware work, e.g. sound?
<dwatkins> yeah, I see what you mean, popey - she wants to have the option of booting all three
<popey> I would have started with osx on the full disk, then use disk utility to shrink the osx down
<popey> and add two partitions
<popey> then install xp and ubuntu into those
<dwatkins> ah, I didn't know that was an option
<livingdaylight> given one has sufficient memory is there any advantage from having a dual/triple boot to using Virtualization?
<popey> i use windows in a vm on my mac, and ubuntu natively installed
<balor> Morning peanut gallery
<balor> I suspect that jono's in for a bit of a blog-bashing today
<dwatkins> indeed, I tend to just run all OSs apart from OS X in a virtual machine on my Mac
<popey> balor: hmm?
<dwatkins> for gaming I guess it's best to run windoze natively for speed, but none of the games I play don't have Mac versions
<balor> popey: http://is.gd/gacZWX Mark called Fedora "Open Core" and Jono said that many of us (people like me) are the "peanut gallery"
<popey> balor: he has already explained that comment
<balor> popey: where?
<balor> popey: It's still ill-advised phraseology.
<popey> http://www.chuckfrain.net/blog/2011/03/04/stepping-down-as-ubuntu-maryland-leader/#comment-1268
<popey> I agree with him
<balor> popey: So do I, to an extent.
<popey> we have a lot of detractors, many who never have and never will use ubuntu
<popey> I dont think they should dictate the project direction
<balor> popey: It's just when you make a black-and-white distinction i.e. inside/outside the peanut gallery, then you have to define who's in it
<balor> popey: So, for example, my student who has never directly contributed to Ubuntu - but has installed it on at least 5 of his classmates machines
<balor> popey: is his opinion on U, from the peanut gallery or not
<popey> I dont believe its black and white like that
<popey> its not a venn diagram
<popey> "All these people are in the peanut gallery@
<popey> I think you're over-analyzing it
<livingdaylight> dwatkins, for gaming its true i can see how running native makes more sense
<balor> popey: I'm a researcher in formal logic, of course I over-analyse :)
<popey> :)
<balor> popey: And my area of specialism happens to be Euler diagrams - Venn diagrams *are* a type of Euler diagram.
<dwatkins> livingdaylight: yeah, it's just that now there are enough native Mac games I'm not concerned about this personally. She is, though :)
<livingdaylight> detractor = hater?
<livingdaylight> yea, constantly referring to  ubuntu users as part of the "peanut gallery" isn't cool... I agree there. All users should be shown respect and value
<dwatkins> I don't even know what a peanut gallery is.... *googles*
<popey> livingdaylight: nobody did that
<popey> nobody "constantly" referred to "ubuntu users" as part of the "peanut gallery"
<livingdaylight> popey, now you're being very precise
<balor> livingdaylight: It was one poor reference, I think. A silly statement.
<dwatkins> ah, people who don't get involved and just heckle, I guess
<popey> only to counter your wild inaccuracies
<balor> livingdaylight: It's important to be precise. Jono doesn't always refer to us as the peanut gallery
<livingdaylight> but he is referring to OMGubuntu and similar how-to support sites as being in the gallery?
<balor> livingdaylight: just once, and I believe it was just a bad phrase to use
<popey> i dont
<popey> we have people who constantly pick on us
<balor> livingdaylight: that's the bit that's unclear to me
<livingdaylight> balor, not always, good - never is better still
<popey> people who have no interest in making the project better
<popey> they just nitpick everything
<popey> and the reference to OMG is more about the readership
<popey> there's a lot of people who read OMG who are outside the ubuntu community
<balor> popey: I've no idea who those people are. I suspect people who don't care about Ubuntu don't comment on it.
<livingdaylight> If it wasn't for sites like OMGubuntu whos tutorials I've used countless times (note that is also not a precise term) I probably wouldn't be using Ubuntu now
<popey> balor: thats flat out not true
<popey> livingdaylight: nobody said omg is bad
<popey> or that it should exist
<balor> popey: Possibly, but I said that *I've* no idea who they are.
<livingdaylight> popey, *shouldn't ?
<popey> really?
<balor> popey: Which is why I'm unhappy with the imprecision in jono's words
<popey> yeah, typo, sorry
<balor> popey: And unhappy with Mark referring to Fedora as Open Core
<livingdaylight> it is left open for misterpretation at the very least. The tone is not positive towards these sites
<balor> livingdaylight: I think that's the issue in a nutshell
<livingdaylight> balor, I read that with open mind and immediately that is how it came across to me
<balor> No-one thinks that Jono meant anything bade he just " left [things] open for misterpretation at the very least. The tone is not positive towards [some community] sites"
<popey> its not the sites that are the problem
<popey> its the readers/commenters
<balor> popey: yes.
<popey> or a subset of them
<balor> popey: Certainly
<balor> popey: It's the imprecision in the comment though.
<popey> meh
<popey> use your brain and interpret it :)
<balor> popey: Yes.
<balor> popey: My interpretation is that some of the Canonical peeps are tired after taking flack about the Banshee thing.  They're struggling to find revenue streams for Ubuntu. And when they find a source, someone crys foul.
<popey> I'm sure thats part of it
<balor> I suppose this is why big companies have PR
<balor> and you only hear the PR line
<popey> they still get that wrong
<balor> It's easier to control the PR line and to not give an honest opinion
<popey> see Apple -> "You're holding it wrong"
<balor> yeah
<livingdaylight> remember the head of BP at the height of the gulf debacle talking about his concern for "the little people" that was lol funny
<livingdaylight> he flew out there to make it better and made it worse, lol
<popey> this is my point, people might use phrases others find offensive or inadequate, or illogical or imprecise.
<popey> we're a global community and people often pick apart every word someone says
<popey> the Fedora Open Core thing.. well, he has a point
<balor> really?
<popey> Y'know I wouldn't be surprised if Red Hat shutdown their Source ftp site
<balor> I think not
<popey> I hear it's been discussed internally at redhat
<popey> so only customers can get source, and not people like oracle / centos
<popey> but thats just a rumour :)
<balor> That's fine
<balor> But Fedora is not RedHat
<balor> As Ubuntu is not Canonical
<popey> Without Red Hat, fedora would not exist
<popey> same goes for Canonical, Ubuntu
<MooDoo> +1
<balor> popey: But the Open Core comment just sounds like sniping.
<balor> Is Ubuntu "Open Core" for canonical?
<popey> we dont have a server version you pay for
<popey> so no
<balor> Given that Canonical have more proprietary services than RedHat
<popey> uh
<popey> those are added services
<popey> RHEL _is_ the product
<balor> Which is Open Source
<popey> hah
 * popey looks for an iso
 * balor looks at the definition of Open Source
 * MooDoo hides his fedora cloak
<popey> balor: open source and open core
<balor> popey: So is Ubuntu "open core" in order to sell landscape?
<popey> no
<balor> (which is proprietary)
<popey> you dont have to pay for landscape, there's no requirement to use it
<balor> as opposed to SpaceWalk, which is open source
<popey> but you _have_ to pay for rhel / up2date
<balor> yeah
<balor> it's a revenue stream
<popey> oh well that makes it okay then
<balor> How else do you make money?
<popey> </sarcasm>
<balor> That's their business model.
<balor> It's successful
<balor> It's open-source
<livingdaylight> problems always arise out of the need for money
<popey> I'm going out
 * balor writes his thesis
<popey> need to take sam to opticians
<livingdaylight> such a corrupting influence - every time
<livingdaylight> popey, did you see rip-off britain last night? all about opticians in this country
<popey> no
<livingdaylight> lenses cost like 0.25p in reality....
<Myrtti> iihhh http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5499289490/
<dutchie> oh ffs
<MooDoo> yummy
<Myrtti> the only way of getting any in Finland
<Myrtti> I haven't seen any dandelion burdock sold anywhere
<scoundrel50> to  view my shares, I am entering smb://<Ip address> into the adress bar, it brings up the folders from the other computer, but it wask for three things, the username, Domain and password, but it doesnt matter what I add in there, it wont let me in. How can I find out what the name of the domain is on the other computer?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.flickr.com/photos/68999878@N00/2716319268
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: you can leave domain empty, and just use username/password usually
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: unless you're in a corporate network with Windows domain server etc.
<scoundrel50> MartijVdS:Hi, I tried that, and it greys out the connect button.
<scoundrel50> I'm at home
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: just keep what's there then (usually the workgroup name)
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: if the other end is a Windows machine, use a valid username/password on that machine
<scoundrel50> Workgroup is in the Domain but I am wondering if its been added as something else somewhere. Keeping Workgroup isnt working either.
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: are you using a username/password that work on the Windows machine?
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: right now I am logged into the Ubuntu partition of both machines, and have entered the name of the username and password of the other machine, but its not working
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: ah.. they're both Ubuntu machines :)
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: install "libpam-smbpass" on the "server" machine, then log out and back in
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: was hoping that might have made things easier, but it doesnt seem so.
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: between two Ubuntu machines I'd use ssh, not smb
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: ok, one sec, I wii try now.
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: install the "ssh" package for it to work
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: how do I install the ssh package, can it be done via the Terminal, right now I am using the Terminal to install the other mentioned pack, where do I get ssh package from. Plus, after this has been installed, will I be able to see the windows partition, on this machine from the other machine.
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: "sudo apt-get install ssh" will install the ssh package
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: just tried that, and its installed,
<MartijnVdS> "sudo" -> "do as superuser", "apt-get" (package tool), "install" (guess), "ssh" (package name)
<scoundrel50> will just log off and be back in a minute, thank you
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: ok, so logged out, and back in again, what do I do next?
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<dwatkins> oioi brobostigon
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: "Connect to server" from the menu at the top
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: then select "ssh", put the IP of the other machine in the "server" field, and your username in the "username" field
<brobostigon> afternoonings dwatkins
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: it'll ask for a password when you click "Connect"
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: folder and port can be left empty/default
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: will that just allow me to see the Ubuntu file of the other machine, how will I be able to see the windows partition?
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: if the Windows partition on the other machine is mounted, you'll be able to browse to it
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I'd use nfs if the computers are in a safe lan, ssh adds unneeded overhead
<Myrtti> but to each of their own
<scoundrel50> how can I mount the windows partition on the other machine? I can only view it, via Filoesystem,
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: nfs has a lot of setup-overhead
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: if you just want to copy files once in a while, nfs is overkill
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: if I go to Places>Network, then click on the Windows Icon, it says unable to mount, failed to retrieve share list from server. I know the both machines can see each other, have worked that out. But cant get rid of that error.
<MartijnVdS> I don't know
<scoundrel50> Its really bugging me, it only developed that error, after upgrade to 10.04, but, my netbook had a fresh install, and it doesnt have that error.
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: did you enable a firewall?
<scoundrel50> I now have 10.10 and the error is still there
<scoundrel50> nope
<scoundrel50> I need to get a firewall installed, but want to sort this forst before doing that
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: ok, tried that doing ssh, and it says connection refused by server
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: does "nmblookup" work?
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: (nmblookup name_of_other_machine_here)
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: I just pinged the other machine, and its working
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: please try nmblookup :)
<scoundrel50> ok, one sec
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: ok, that is odd, this is the message I get when I enter that command.......The program 'nmblookup' can be found in the following packages:
<scoundrel50>  * samba-common-bin  * samba4-clients Try: sudo apt-get install <selected package>
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: I dont have samba4 installed, only samba3x
<MartijnVdS> try samba-common-bin
<MartijnVdS> that's samba 3
<MartijnVdS> +part of
<scoundrel50> it says failed to find, using both ipo address and computer name
<scoundrel50> its odd becauwse I can ping the othjer machine
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: do you know how Windows networking ("samba") works internally?
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: there are a few good debugging guides on samba.org
<scoundrel50> ok, will go take a look. I aqm not a geek, I can barely understand some of the terminology used with Ubuntu and windows, but will have a go thanks for the help anyway.
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: Just to be sure.. you have two Ubuntu machines? Or one Ubuntu machine and a Windows machine?
<scoundrel50> can I ask, how come I can ping the other computer, but nmblookup fails to find
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: nmblookup sends a request onto the network: "Who has this name?"
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: if nobody replies, or the reply doesn't reach your machine, it'll time out/fail
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: I have an Ubuntu Netbook, and a Windows machine with ubuntu partitioned. I can see the windows partition using File System, but it wont mount.
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: is there an error message in that case?
<scoundrel50> I can ping from both machines, and it works, but dont know why it wont share
<scoundrel50> It says unable to mount, failed to retrieve filesystem
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea, sorry
<MartijnVdS> But it seems like you're mixing up two problems:
<MartijnVdS> - Network access from netbook to other machine
<MartijnVdS> - Windows disk partition access while running Ubuntu on the other machine
<scoundrel50> Well, so far, I am just trying to see if I can get my two Ubuntu machines to see each other and share, but I can, the windows, I can try and get to work after I get the Ubuntu machines to see each other
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: the Ubuntu machines can use ssh to share files with each other
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: like I explained earlier
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: if you put "/" in the "Path" box in the "Connect to server" dialog box, you shuold be able to see the entire file system of the machine you connected to
<scoundrel50> Its giving me an error using ssh, it says 'connection refused by server'
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: you have to install "ssh" on the machine you're connecting to
<MartijnVdS> (i.e. the server :))
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: sorry was on other machine trying to see if I could connect to this one, it just times out. Will see if I need to install ssh on it.
<MartijnVdS> that sounds like a firewall issue, or maybe the same network issue that's preventing nmblookup from working
<scoundrel50> so how do I find otu if it is a firewall issue. I dont remember adding a firewall.
<scoundrel50> I just installed ssh on other machine, but still get time out error
<scoundrel50> funny thing, I had no problems at all, before 10.4, worked perfectly, then upgraded, adn nothing since.
<scoundrel50> 10.10 on both machines still can share
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: on the command line, try:
<MartijnVdS> ssh -v -l username_on_other_machine other_machines_ip
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: and paste the output to pastebin
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin
<lubotu3`> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<scoundrel50> ok, one sec
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: sorry for taqking so long, its asking for authentification keys, passwords and I just screwed up, so have to start again, sorry
<scoundrel50> ok, got something, will post to pastebin now, give me a sec.
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: here is ther result.......http://paste.ubuntu.com/575969/
<scoundrel50> Dont know what that did, but it did something that allwos me to view Ubuntu from this computer, I'll check to see if I can do the same from the other computer
 * brobostigon decides to try and do a cm7 build for his htc dream himself.
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: you're logged in on the other computer
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: that means connecting using the "Connect to server" dialog should now work
<MartijnVdS> (even after you log out -- I think it might have failed because of the "Are you sure you want to continue" bit)
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: ok, there is definately something wrong with this computer, I think its blocked somehow. I am trying that command from the other computer, and its not working
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: what do you mean by that?
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: it should execute commands as you type them
<MartijnVdS> try things like "ls"
<scoundrel50> ok, well, this computer which is the partioned windows computer that I am using Ubuntu from, can now see the netbook, and view its Ubuntu shares, using ssh.
<MartijnVdS> s1
<MartijnVdS> that sounds good :)
<scoundrel50> So I go to try the same thing from the other computer to see if I can see this computers shares, and nothing, so i try that ssh command I used, and posted result to pastgebin with, adn after the command it jujst hangs and does nothing, so this computer is blocking other computers from seeing it, I think
<scoundrel50> this is what I get for the other netbok http://paste.ubuntu.com/575975/
<scoundrel50> MartijnVdS: do you know what this means as well? Your CPU appears to be lacking expected security protections. Please check your BIOS settings, or for more information, run:  /usr/bin/check-bios-nx --verbose
<Synth_sam> Hi all
<balor> scoundrel50: Are these netbooks connected via wifi?  If so, does the router block any ports?
<Synth_sam> I need to install 10.4.2 on an external drive for my father
<Synth_sam> When I tried it before I used the desktop disk and it overwrote the MBR of sda
<scoundrel50> baloe: the netbook is connected via wifi, but I have no idea if the router blocks any ports how do I find that out.
<Synth_sam> Think I can stop that happening with the alternate?
<scoundrel50> balor....sorry for the typo in your name
<balor> scoundrel50: (1) can you ping the other machine, (2) look at the wifi router configuration - they normally have a web admin panel
<scoundrel50> balor: Hi, yes I can ping both machines
<balor> scoundrel50: Can you, say, nmap one machine from the other, to see what ports are open?
<balor> scoundrel50: for example "nmap 192.168.1.1"
<scoundrel50> ok, will try from the other machine to see what ports are open, is that all I have to put into the terminal nmap?
<balor> scoundrel50: and the ip address.  There are graphical nmap tools, but this is the quickest
<balor> scoundrel50: You should see what ports are open then.  If you can't see the port you expect to be open then (a) it's not open, or (b) the router is doing something strange.
<BigMac> does anyone know when firefox 3.6.15 will be available in the repositories?
<scoundrel50> oki, here is what happened when I nmap'd this machine pastebin.ubuntu.com/575980
<Synth_sam> did you try -PN?
<balor> scoundrel50: If they're both actually online, then it looks as if your wireless AP is blocking access between them.
<scoundrel50> balor: so how do i get around that
<scoundrel50> Synth_sam: is that something I need to try, and if so, how?
<balor> scoundrel50: On my wireless AP, I just went into the management console (a web page) and turned off anything that looked like it was "smart" or "security"
<Synth_sam> scoundrel50: run nmap again with -PN as options on the command line before the ip address
<balor> scoundrel50: Like Synth_sam said, you could try "nmap -PN ip"
<balor> scoundrel50: But basically, it doesn't look like an Ubuntu problem.  You'd find the same issue with Windows or OS X as the router is not routing traffic correctly
<scoundrel50> balor: ok, I'm trying that from the netbook to this computer, and it seems to be hanging and doing nothing.
<scoundrel50> can I ask though, why it should have worked ok before upgrading,
<balor> scoundrel50: -PN can take a while to give back data
<balor> scoundrel50: Ah.  Didn't know that.  If it worked before upgrade, it should work after upgrade.  Maybe it is an Ubuntu issue
<balor> scoundrel50: Do you have a firewall maybe?  did it get turned on in the upgrade?
<scoundrel50> I also found this after one of the things somebody else asked me to do, via the terminal, would you have any idea what this means? Your CPU appears to be lacking expected security protections.
<scoundrel50> Please check your BIOS settings, or for more information, run:
<scoundrel50>   /usr/bin/check-bios-nx --verbose
<scoundrel50> I have no idea about the firewall, how do I find that out
<scoundrel50> um, this is what I got from nmap -PN pastebin.ubuntu.com/575983
<Synth_sam> scoundrel50: the "host is up" notification doesn't mean anything because -PN told it to assume that the host is up
<Synth_sam> it didn't find any open ports so it's at the same point
<scoundrel50> so why is this computer blocked from sharing
<scoundrel50> really annoying
<Synth_sam> is 192.168.0.3 a ubuntu machine? (I wasn't here for the start of the convo)
<Synth_sam> scoundrel50: it's a windows machine? What version of windows?
<scoundrel50> XP
<Synth_sam> hmm
<scoundrel50> These problems have only occured since upgrading. it happened on the Netbook as well, and that wqas only fixed in the end with a fresh install.
<scoundrel50> I was hoping I would have to do that on this machine
<Synth_sam> upgrading what?
<Synth_sam> windows?
<scoundrel50> upgrading from 9.04 to 10.04 ubuntu. From 10.04 sharing stopped
<scoundrel50> any form of sharing stopped
<Synth_sam> the 10.04 machine is sharing and you can't access from windows, or the other way round?
<scoundrel50> sorry, I should have explained even more. I have upgraded since 10.04, to 10.10 on both machines. The netbook I decided that I would do a complete fresh inistall of 10.10, but have just upgraded with this machine. From this afternoon, I finally managed to be able to see from this machine using ssh my netbook shares, but from the netbook, this machine is blocked out
<scoundrel50> Sorry, been on here for hours, forget who has seen what
<scoundrel50> It seems, my only option with this computer, might be another fresh install, if I cant get this machine to share. I didnt want to do that really.
<Synth_sam> scoundrel50: just to check if you have the ubuntu standard firewall running, try "sudo ufw status"
<scoundrel50> it says active
<scoundrel50> and gives a small list
<Synth_sam> what are the list
<Synth_sam> they are the open ports
<Synth_sam> you need 139 and 445 for samba
<scoundrel50> one sec I'll mpost to pastebin
<scoundrel50> http://paste.ubuntu.com/575995/
<scoundrel50> how did that get started?
<Synth_sam> ok, so that is set to leave the correct ports open for samba on the computer that you're on at the moment
<scoundrel50> can I stop it, and see if my problems get sorted?
<Synth_sam> yes
<Synth_sam> "sudo ufw disable"
<scoundrel50> ok, one sec, will try
<Synth_sam> it will work
<Synth_sam> that is set to allow those ports for the network 192.168.1.0 - 192.168.0.254
<scoundrel50> I'll just go see if I can see this computer from the other one, brb
<Synth_sam> sorry
<Synth_sam> 192.168.1.254
<Synth_sam> and your other computer has an ip address 192.168.0.3
<Synth_sam> so the rules need changing if you want to allow that computer access
<Synth_sam> if you have ufw active on all of the computers with incorrect permissions, this will explain why you have a problem
<scoundrel50> just disabled it, and I can see this computer from the other one
<Synth_sam> bingo, if you want to set up the actual rules to keep your firewall on, I can walk you through that too
<scoundrel50> so, its the ufw firewall on here that is blocking other computers. So how do I fix that, so I can keep the firewall going, and view the shares?
<scoundrel50> sorry, was typing, cant type and read
<scoundrel50> would that be possible please
<scoundrel50> its take about a year to work this out
<Synth_sam> right, if you don't have computers in the subnet 192.168.1.0/24 then you can delete those rules first
<Synth_sam> "sudo ufw delete <num>"
<Synth_sam> where number is the line number in the list from before
<Synth_sam> run ufw status to get the numbers again every time you do it
<scoundrel50> ok, I am realloy sorry, but you have lost me now
<Synth_sam> then do this "sudo ufw allow from 192.168.0.0/24 to any port 139"
<Synth_sam> that allows traffic from other computers to port 139 on your computer
<Synth_sam> other computers in the subnet listed
<Synth_sam> i.e. 192.168.0.1/2/3/4/5/6 etc
<Synth_sam> then do the same for port 445
<Synth_sam> that's samba sorted
<Synth_sam> any other services you want?
<Synth_sam> 22 for SSH
<scoundrel50> um, can I ask, I am a bit lost, from the start. I have no clue at all about the firewall
<Synth_sam> ok, the default rule for the firewall is to deny traffic
<scoundrel50> ok
<Synth_sam> so you add rules as exceptions
<Synth_sam> the last pastebin you did said that you have ports 137,138 and 139 open
<scoundrel50> first off, I disabled the firewall, I need to enable it again, how?
<Synth_sam> sudo ufw enable
<scoundrel50> ok, done that
<scoundrel50> the prots now
<scoundrel50> ports, sorry
<scoundrel50> what do I need to do now?
<Synth_sam> right, delete the rules that exist already by running this command: "sudo ufw delete 1" three times
<scoundrel50> ok,
<scoundrel50> done
<Synth_sam> run sudo ufw status
<Synth_sam> any rules listed?
<scoundrel50> nothing listed, just says status active
<Synth_sam> ok, so now you can add exceptions like this: "sudo ufw allow from 192.168.0.0/16 to any port 139"
<Synth_sam> (from 192.168.0.0 to 192.168.254.254)
<Synth_sam> do the same command for port 445
<Synth_sam> that should allow both ubuntu and windows access on your local network
<scoundrel50> ok, will give it a try
<mgdm>  /16
<mgdm> oops
<scoundrel50> what is in brackets do I add at end of port?
<Synth_sam> no
<Synth_sam> I was telling you the ip range that applied to
<Synth_sam> that's the range that 192.168.0.0/16 refers to
<scoundrel50> ojh ok, now I understand, just did the first one, about to do the second
<scoundrel50> just added those, will go check the other computer to see if I can see the shares, one sec
<scoundrel50> um, something stopped it working again
<Synth_sam> hmm, strange
<scoundrel50> Its definately the firewall, I just dissabled it again, and I can see this pc from the netbook
<scoundrel50> so, its the rules
<scoundrel50> funny thing, in Network, I now have the Ubuntu Icons and one os for this computer, but it still says when I click on it, unable to mount
<scoundrel50> the new Icons werent there half hour ago
<scoundrel50> ok, just checked this computers Icon from the Netbook, clicked on it and it opened up the shares, so i can see. Its how it used to work
<Synth_sam> well you can try adding ports 137 and 138 too and see if that makes any difference
<scoundrel50> oh wow, just gone into the Places Network on nthis machine, and the other computers Icons are there.
<scoundrel50> I'll try add the other two ports one sec, to see if it works
<scoundrel50> yep, I can see the netbook shares from Network.
<scoundrel50> ok, about to add the other ports, one sec
<Synth_sam> so the netbook probably doesn't have ufw running then
<scoundrel50> it doesnt look like, I'll check as soon as I check this one, I just enabled ufw again, one sec
<scoundrel50> I need to log out and back in again to check one sec
<scoundrel50> brb
<scoundrel50> Synth_sam: back again, right, I can view this computers Ubuntu files from the netbook, but I have the Netbooks Icon still in the Network, but the unable to mount error is still coming up, so its the ports going out that are blocked by the sounds of things.
<Synth_sam> scoundrel50: what is the error that mount gives?
<scoundrel50> Unable to mount location - Failed to retrieve share list from server
<scoundrel50> if I stop the fireguard, I can see the shares, so its the fireguard
<scoundrel50> is there another port that allows sharing
<scoundrel50> I just checked with the ssh way, and I can see the neetbook from here, but I cant view this computer
<scoundrel50> if I stpped ufw, how secure would I be?
<Synth_sam> if you have a router with a firewall between your network and the internet, that's fine
<Synth_sam> but if you use your computer on a public network you will want ufw running
<Synth_sam> but you can do that when you move your computer
<Synth_sam> just run "sudo ufw enable"
<scoundrel50> Its just me at home
<Synth_sam> yes, but you have the firewall on your router switched on?
<scoundrel50> funny thing is though, if I click on the icons for desktop or pictures when trying to view the other computer, I still have to log in, but, no matter what I try to use, I cant log in.
<scoundrel50> oh yes, I havbe that one switched on
<scoundrel50> so can actually get into the other computer
<scoundrel50> still cant, sorry
<scoundrel50> very frustrating
<scoundrel50> we are getting there
<Synth_sam> the computer you're trying to get into is ubuntu?
<scoundrel50> but I just work out now what username, Domain and password I need,
<scoundrel50> yes, just trying to access Ubuntu at the minute
<Synth_sam> if it's a ubuntu computer, you need to have ran smbpasswd on that computer to activate your user for samba
<scoundrel50> how do I do that?
<Synth_sam> you said that this was working before though right?
<scoundrel50> yes
<scoundrel50> before upgrading to 10.04
<scoundrel50> so how do I set up smbpasswd
<scoundrel50> um, somebody I met on here set it up for me
<scoundrel50> Oh well, thank you any way, I really appreciate the help.
<Synth_sam> right, try "sudo smbpasswd -e <yourusername>
<Synth_sam> "
<Synth_sam> see what that says
<scoundrel50> for which computer, this one or the one I am trying to view?
<Synth_sam> the one you're trying to view
<scoundrel50> it said enabled username
<Synth_sam> that it was enabled, or that it has enabled it?
<Synth_sam> if it was the latter, then try connecting again
<scoundrel50> it said Enabled user
<Synth_sam> hmm
<scoundrel50> and I still get the Password required box appear
<Synth_sam> yeah, you will
<Synth_sam> it's very strange
<scoundrel50> but its not allowing me to enter a password, doesnt matter how I do it, it isnt accepted.
<Synth_sam> try (on the computer you're trying to connect to) to run smbpasswd as the user you're trying to connect as (i.e. no sudo), it will set your password for samba for that user
<scoundrel50> ok, one sec
<scoundrel50> would work, it said filed to connect to computer
<scoundrel50> ok, in smb.conf I just discovered the workgroup for this computer is called ATLANTIS I wonder if I entered that on the Netbook, if it might work, one sec
<scoundrel50> ok, that worked, where ATLANTIS came from, I have no idea.
<penguin42> you found atlantis!
<scoundrel50> Now I have to find the smb.conf file on the netbook, and see if I can get that to work
<scoundrel50> yep
<scoundrel50> lol
<scoundrel50> I feel like I am in the twilight zone, to be honest, lol
<scoundrel50> but, I think we have got there
<scoundrel50> brb back, when I find the name of the workgroup for the netbook
<knightwise> connectbot is one cool app  doing irc through ssh from my htc evo
<knightwise> now all i need is a bigger keyboard
<Synth_sam> knightwise: nifty, but I can imagine the pain of typing on a phone
<knightwise> allthough the next size up is a tablet
<Synth_sam> yes, but you still have to type with touchscreen then
<MartijnVdS> touch typing
<MartijnVdS> *hide*
<scoundrel50> Synth_sam: ok, this is bizzare, why is it that smb.conf file isnt automatically installed, when smaba is installed. That is both computers now, that didnt have the smb.conf file there. it means I have ti uninstall and reinstall again to ge the file, and go through all the process of sharing again. Whys is that?
<knightwise> thats ok  i am wicked fast on the ipad
<Synth_sam> scoundrel50: I have absolutely no idea, are you sure you're looking in the correct place?
<Synth_sam> /etc/samba/smb.conf
<scoundrel50> oh yes, /var/lib/samba/ no file
<knightwise> but havung my servers cli on my phone is the bomb
<scoundrel50> ok, that is different to what I was told yesterday#
<Synth_sam> zing!
<Synth_sam> well, mine is installed in etc
<scoundrel50> based on what I was told yesterday, I had to go and uninstal and reinstll samba
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: that's not necessary, unless you didn't install it from the package?
<knightwise> sudo apt-get install samba
<scoundrel50> well, that is what I was told to do yesterday, but never mind.
<scoundrel50> ok, this is very strange,
<scoundrel50> on thi9s computer there are quite a few files in the /etc/samba/ direcotry including smb.conf plus a directory colled tis.
<scoundrel50> in the netboopk there are only two files, one is a smb.conf file.
<scoundrel50> strange thing, having put a smb.conf file into /var/lib/samba that was when it worked. The file in /var/lib/samba has a different name to the on etc/samba/
<scoundrel50> I am totally confused now
<scoundrel50> I dont know, all I know is what I was doing yesterday, what what I was told to do. Can somebody tell me, in etc/samba/ what you have in there,
<Synth_sam> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/576022/
<scoundrel50> I have 7 files and a directory
<scoundrel50> ok, strange that this is, where I have added the smb.conf file to .var/lib/samba/ it has the workgroup ATLANTIS in there, in /etc/samba/ it whas workgroup in there.
<scoundrel50> as the workgroup
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50: you usually don't have to touch /var/lib/samba "by hand"
<MartijnVdS> config files go in /etc
<scoundrel50> but I cant get the get this computer to open up the netbooks shares
<scoundrel50> Its only what i did that somebody from here told me to do yesterday
<scoundrel50> I dont have a clue, I wouldnt have know where to look
<scoundrel50> whatever happened, I can view this computer, using ATLANTIS as the workgroup, which is found in the /var/lib/samba bit
<scoundrel50> ok, so what do I do now?
<Synth_sam> what do you mean? you're sorted aren't you? you can see your files?
<scoundrel50> I can now see this computers files, from the netbook, but not the netbook from here, I can see the folders, but I cant log in
<scoundrel50> it wont accept my details
<scoundrel50> which is what i been trying to tell you,
 * brobostigon returns
<MartijnVdS> Run away! It's brobostigon! :)
<MartijnVdS> (hi :P)
<MartijnVdS> only 20 hours left until my 20km run (first official "race"/event)
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.20vanalphen.nl/uploads/images/H6XwRysalAkUZ-EOUJwtjw/20km.pdf
<MartijnVdS> ^ that's the route
<g5236m> !EBrarian The Three Investigators 13 - The Secret of the Crooked Cat (US) (pdf).rar     ::INFO:: 1.28 MiB
<g5236m> !EBrarian The Three Investigators 14 - The Mystery of the Coughing Dragon (UK) (pdf).rar     ::INFO:: 1.10 MiB
<lubotu3`> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<g5236m> !EBrarian The Three Investigators 14 - The Mystery of the Coughing Dragon (US) (pdf).rar     ::INFO:: 1.30 MiB
<lubotu3`> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<lubotu3`> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good luck, :)
<DJones> !piracy | g5236m
<lubotu3`> g5236m: piracy discussion and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o
<mgdm> DJones: I suspect it's a bot
<DJones> mgdm: I doubt it, its aimed at a channel on undernet
<Myrtti> !list
<lubotu3`> This is not a file sharing channel (or network); be sure to read the channel topic. If you're looking for information about me, type Â« /msg ubottu !bot Â»
 * Myrtti ponders
<Baikonur> lubotu3`: you're not ubottu, your'e lubotu3`
<lubotu3`> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<shauno> I've tried that line at work.  didn't get me far.
<Baikonur> apostrophe's are hard
<scoundrel50> workgroups for shares, do they have to be the same for all computers, such as the main computer is ATLANTIS, will I need to change the workgroup of the netbook to ATLANTIS as well, if so, how can I open it to change it.
 * brobostigon is having bad luck with natty today, ireevocable full screen graphics atricfacts, ireetrieveable only by reboot. :(
<DJones> Oh dear, this might cause some complaints https://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/where-did-the-buttons-go/
<bigcalm> Fear change!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: fear annoying change
<MartijnVdS> ("stop telling me how to use my computer")
<bigcalm> Quite
<bigcalm> I wonder what KDE looks like these days
<mgdm> I used to run KDE for one month in six to see what it was up to
<mgdm> I've not done that for a while
<kirrus> Can anyone check I'm not being stupid with this regex.. I need to match this format "/2010/03/03/blarg/" as briefly as possible.. is this correct? "^\/20.\/$"
<scoundrel50> Just got to say, thanks to those who helped, I have now got it working........
<HazRPG> ah shoot I must have missed cbx333
<HazRPG> hi all
<shauno> mornin HazRPG
<HazRPG> shauno: indeed ^^
<HazRPG> hmm, just downloaded a few demos for the c64... which I'm assuming based on the history I read were coded by individuals who owned c64's, and just decided to colab. together...
<HazRPG> but I can't seem to get it to play any the other info off the disk
<HazRPG> I can only see the intro
 * HazRPG keyboard mashes all keys
<mgdm> in a lot of cases the intros *were* the demos
<DJones> In a lot of cases, the demos were better than the game :)
<DJones> s/demos/intros
<HazRPG> oh
<bigcalm> mgdm: been having a look at symfony recently?
<mgdm> bigcalm: Oh heck no - someone else pointed me at it
<bigcalm> Hehe
<HazRPG> its just under the "contents" show several different things for the disk images, I just assumed there would be more on them
<mgdm> with quotes like that I'm not likely to be a user ;)
<bigcalm> I think who ever wrote that missed the point
<bigcalm> Awww
<bigcalm> One weirdo does not make a project
<mgdm> that's the project's official documentation
<mgdm> and it's not just that
<mgdm> HazRPG: LOAD "$",8
<mgdm> if you're using a proper C64 or an emulator, that'll get you the disk directory
<mgdm> then choose the file you want and do LOAD "FILENAME",8,1
 * mgdm is having flashbacks to a happy time
<mgdm> LOAD "*",8,1 just loads the first thing on the disk, which is what I suspect happened
<mgdm> of course, I could be missing the point :)
<HazRPG> hmm, LOAD "$",8
<HazRPG> shows nothing
<mgdm> hmmm
<HazRPG> well at least this demo tells you how to switch the song :)
<HazRPG> mgdm: I'm guessing these demo use to be on floppies?
<mgdm> yeah
<mgdm> or shared via BBSes
<HazRPG> original floppy or 3.5?
<mgdm> 5.25", which is neither
<DJones> If they were C64, I would expect they were on cassette tape originally
<mgdm> either or
<mgdm> the C64 had both
<DJones> Mine only ever had the cassette brick
<HazRPG> hmm, didn't realise there was 5.25" floppies
 * bigcalm suddenly feels old
<HazRPG> I'm sure I have norton on an 8"
<mgdm> DJones: I got a 1541 fairly late on
<HazRPG> somewhere.....
<mgdm> HazRPG: 5.25 were the most common before 3.5
<mgdm> 8" was older and far rarer
<DJones> mgdm: I'd possibly switched to an Apple II by that point
<HazRPG> hmm, I only ever saw 8" and 3.5"
<DJones> HazRPG: The Apple II's used 5.25 floppies by default
<HazRPG> mgdm: BBSes?
<mgdm> Sheesh, you're a young'un
<HazRPG> DJones: ah, I never saw the Apple II
<mgdm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system :)
<DJones> With the 14.4K modem if you were lucky :)
<mgdm> I never had a modem
<HazRPG> my first experience with the internet was in the 90's
<mgdm> I didn't think the Apple II was that common in the UK
<HazRPG> or even a modem for that matter
<mgdm> well, so was mine
<DJones> mgdm: I knew quite a few peple with them, plus the college I was at  used them as the main computer equipment
 * HazRPG recalls the fun of connecting directly to someone's PC via a modem :)
<mgdm> Our schools had BBC Micros and Masters :)
<HazRPG> mgdm: so did ours :)
<DJones> they weren't released at the tim
<DJones> Probably the end of my 2nd year at college before they were released
<HazRPG> man I miss the good ol' days
<HazRPG> seems I missed a lot back in the home computer days
<HazRPG> :(
<HazRPG> probably why I like irc too much, first thing I really used when internet started becoming wide-spread
<HazRPG> anyone here ever used a web-crawler?
 * bigcalm hates spiders
 * popey chomps his graze box
<popey> and the contents :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Off to Wolverhampton for chinese buffet in a bit. Must resist graze nibbling
<popey> ooo, which chinese?
<popey> the big one?
<bigcalm> Yep
<popey> in the town centre
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> nommy
<bigcalm> It's our fave
<popey> understandable!
<bigcalm> The Imperial
<popey> didnt realise you lived near wolves
<popey> thats it
<popey> been there a few times now
<bigcalm> About 30 min drive from here
<popey> where are you?
<bigcalm> Nearish to Telford
<popey> ah
<bigcalm> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Church+Aston,+Newport,+UK&aq=0&sll=52.758198,-2.3795&sspn=0.008194,0.018539&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Church+Aston,+Newport,+United+Kingdom&ll=52.675549,-2.289963&spn=0.262705,0.593262&z=11
<popey> ooooo, i want chinese now!
<bigcalm> Hehe :P
<bigcalm> I've never been to Holyhead, I wonder if Hayley would be up for a drive tomorrow :)
<bigcalm> Nope, work to do. Ho hum
<bigcalm> popey: did you break mc?
<daubers> evening
<bigcalm> Afternoon
<shauno> kinda given up on mc again until it gets an update that doesn't crash non-stop :(
<bigcalm> Wow, that sucks
<popey> bigcalm: i saw a tweet that the login server is now up
<popey> which implies it was down
<shauno> 11821 Segmentation fault      java -Xms2G -Xmx2G -jar MinecraftLauncher.jar
<shauno> real	0m45.441s
<shauno> apparently the last session I have logged lasted 45 seconds before it died
<shauno> score!
<bigcalm> Tried a different java?
<bigcalm> re that is
<Myrtti> I hadn't even realised that the new launcher even works
<shauno> I'm on osx .. I don't believe there's many options for java
<bigcalm> Ah
<shauno> there may be an su^WOracle-blessed dist somewhere rather than the vendor one, but I'd rather not break stuff I have that does work
<daubers> shauno: Oracle redirects you to the Apple Update service :)
<daubers> shauno: Real PITA with the supermicro IPMI stuff, as you end up in a loop going backward and forward
<HazRPG> haha this demo is mega
<shauno> glad I haven't tried that then.  the vendor package works fine with the package I use at work, so I leave it alone :)
<HazRPG> although there a few samples of grease in this
<HazRPG> were most of the demos seriously made by the Swedish, or have I just come across a site where they uploaded to?
<Myrtti> argh.
<Myrtti> I've got the dandelion burdock sodastream concentrate - but I'm not at my sisters (who has the machine)
<Myrtti> NEEEDDDD D&B
<HazRPG> Myrtti: wow your has a sodastream machine :o
<Myrtti> yeah, she has been working as a bouncer at the local football club and they don't get paid with money - they get stuff from the football team sponsors
<Myrtti> so she bought the most expensive sodastream machine the local white goods merchant had
<Myrtti> with the gift certificate she got
<HazRPG> nice
<Myrtti> oh well, perhaps I'll just have some strawberry-rhubarb cordial
<Synth_sam> Hi all
<mgdm> have you made fizzy milk yet?
<Synth_sam> Think I've managed to get Irssi sorted
<mgdm> I can't believe I missed that trick when i had one when I was younger
<Myrtti> mgdm: doesn't it go sour?
<mgdm> Not sure, never tried
<Myrtti> carbon dioxide is known as "carbonic acid" as well in Finnish...
<Myrtti> especially when it's dissolved into water
<Synth_sam> Myrtti: carbonic acid is carbon dioxide dissolved in water (it creates acid)
<Synth_sam> precisely
<Myrtti> Synth_sam: carbon dioxide ice is called carbonic acid ice here
<Synth_sam> yes, because it's ice with carbonic acid in it
<Myrtti> *shrug* live and learn
<Synth_sam> carbon dioxide reacts with water in an equilibrium
<Synth_sam> water and carbon dioxide on one side, carbonic acid on the other
<Synth_sam> (I'm a Chemist, if you hadn't guessed)
 * daubers waits for the chicken to come out of he oven
<Myrtti> I used to love chemistry at school but I sucked in maths
<Synth_sam> I'm doing a PhD, so the maths has calmed down again
<Myrtti> so I moved away from my plan of physics and chemistry and moved over to biology and history :-P
<Myrtti> (and ended up being a computer geek)
<Myrtti> oh well
<Synth_sam> haha, yeah, that's my hobby ;)
<Myrtti> bah, I need to fix my webcam again with sugru, my first hack didn't quite work out
<Synth_sam> who's the webcam made by?
<Myrtti> I have no idea, it's Skype branded
<Myrtti> I've made little hooks on the feet to keep the rubber band in place
<Synth_sam> meh, I've got a logitech one, the quality in ubuntu is terrible
<Synth_sam> it's Quickcam pro 9000
<Synth_sam> can get 720p in windows, but just seems to work a lot worse in ubuntu
<daubers> chicken out! Just needs to rest for 15 minutes
<Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5499672993/ :->
<Synth_sam> and we moan about the amount of snow we had this winter....
<Myrtti> yeah, we have to plough the roofs of some buildings here
<Myrtti> this year people have actually gotten killed by snow dropping from the roof :-(
<Synth_sam> :S
<zleap> HazRPG, hi,  sent you cd's yesterday,  sorry for the delay been busy
<HazRPG> zleap: you sent me CD's?
<zleap> yeah, er i think it was you, we chatted a whole back
<zleap> said i would send you a ubuntu cd
<HazRPG> zleap: hmm... cumbria?
<zleap> think so
<HazRPG> wow, didn't realise I'd given my address to anyone :S
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> i think it was you anyway
<zleap> sent em yesterday
<HazRPG> okay, I always thought the "fire" button was CTRL or SPACEBAR
<HazRPG> what button does this game want me to press >_<
<HazRPG> what is "fire" button >_<
<shauno> the red one on the joystick :)
<mgdm> might be enter
<mgdm> depends on your emulator's setup
<zleap> hi
<Synth_sam> zleap: hi
<zleap> hows you
<HazRPG> nope...
<Synth_sam> pretty good, drinking champagne, you?
<HazRPG> shauno: I don't know how I forgot that, shows the last time I cracked open any of my old machines
<zleap> relaxing,  got back from a lug meet an hour ago
<Synth_sam> lug?
<HazRPG> Synth_sam: linux user group
<zleap> yeah
<Synth_sam> ahh
<Synth_sam> that makes sense :)
<zleap> Linux is slowly getting around
<zleap> esp ubuntu,
<Synth_sam> yeah, I finally made the jump at 9.10
<Synth_sam> haven't looked back
<zleap> cool
<Synth_sam> well, still have to use windows at work for some things
<HazRPG> shauno: well this sucks, I can't get it so play the game
<HazRPG> I thought selecting the numpad would have given me something, but it hasn't
<zleap> yeah  thats a case in a lot of places,  its the next upgrade cyclke you can look in to where windows can be replaced
<HazRPG> was really looking forward to playing Metal Warrior
<Synth_sam> zleap: yeah, unfortunately, there is some proprietary software for controlling analytical instruments that can't be replaced
<HazRPG> Synth_sam: you might be surprised ;)
<zleap> ah so very specialist
<Synth_sam> Yeah, I'm a Synthetic Chemist
<zleap> i would have thought that linux would be better in a critical environment
<HazRPG> Synth_sam: nice :)
<Synth_sam> There are linux versions of some of them, but they're quite expensive
<zleap> from the people that make the equipment
<zleap> ah,  typical eh
<Synth_sam> and the university has licenses for the windows software
<HazRPG> Synth_sam: I use to enjoy chemistry at school, but they wouldn't allow me to pursue it because they felt my computing skills was better in Saudi :/
<Synth_sam> ahh
 * zleap likes chem too
<Synth_sam> I liked chemistry before I did a degree in it
<Synth_sam> nothing better to make you tired of it
<Synth_sam> but I liked the practical side
<HazRPG> yeah I did a degree in computing, wish I'd left it as a hobby
<zleap> me too
<Synth_sam> haha, funny how that works
<bigcalm> This is why I didn't consider photography as a job
<HazRPG> Synth_sam: don't get me wrong, I love working with computers, but I'd rather I hadn't done a degree in it
<HazRPG> well HND*
<Synth_sam> HazRPG: the problem I had with the degree was the amount of maths
<Synth_sam> Chemistry is fun until you start studying the Schrodinger equation
<Myrtti> I could be a potter.
<Synth_sam> (Quantum mechanics)
<zleap> i thought that was more physics
<Myrtti> I'm still bitter I went for the mediatechnology instead of it
<HazRPG> I love the theories about Quantum mechanics, but I don't think I could ever get my head around them
<zleap> i have heard of that,l  is that about a cat in a box adn it being half dead or half alive
<Synth_sam> zleap: It helps to understand the fundamentals to be able to apply them.  It's Chemical Physics, or Physical Chemistry
<zleap> ok
<Synth_sam> Now my maths go about as far as calculating quantities for reactions
<Synth_sam> :D
<Synth_sam> much better
<zleap> same here i think
<zleap> hi issyl0
<cbx333> hey there everyone
<zleap> hi cbx333
<Synth_sam> hi cbx333
<HazRPG> cbx333: welcome back :)
<Guest20283> Hi zleap!
<Guest20283> Gargh.
<zleap> hows you
<HazRPG> cbx333: noticed your comments earlier this morning when I got up this afternoon xD
<cbx333> hi zleap, Synth_sam, HazRPG
<cbx333> heheh
<cbx333> awesome
<nigelb> Guest20283: hey, interesting blog post
<cbx333> I'm thinking of adding a new section - will put it up on the wiki
<HazRPG> cbx333: I'm guessing ali1234 mentioned me in his git fork?
<HazRPG> cbx333: or did you check the logs?
<nigelb> issyl0: You're not the only person I've known going through that kind of hell ;)
<zleap> i need to do more on the forums
<cbx333> i didn't see you mentioned
<cbx333> just checked the logs now
<HazRPG> cbx333: ah, its just you said thanks for the input to me and ali1234.
<issyl0> nigelb: heh, thanks.
<cbx333> ahh yeh
<HazRPG> cbx333: was wondering how you saw I'd done any input when I hadn't uploaded anything yet
<cbx333> hehehe
<cbx333> i meant the "other" input
<nigelb> issyl0: At least that explains why I see you less on IRC.  College.
<HazRPG> cbx333: ah
<issyl0> nigelb: well, kind of.  Not that there's much to do at college, as you've read, but yes, that is one reason.  :-)
<HazRPG> cbx333: well, I don't know what ali put down, but shauno, ali and I thought the page number scheme is a bit iffy - but couldn't work out latex to change it
<issyl0> nigelb: PM?
<nigelb> issyl0: sure :)
<zleap> lol http://www.microsoft.com/en/us/default.aspx has 107 errors
<cbx333> hahah
<cbx333> I'll figure it out if you tell me what you want to do
<HazRPG> cbx333: did a bit of a play with it and managed to get it to change, but it would error our other parts of it, so we figured it'd be best if we just mentioned it to you - but I'm guessing the book was more important then the formatting of it at the moment :P
<Synth_sam> zleap: 107 errors where?
<zleap> ran  it through the validator (W3 .ORG(
<cbx333> haha
<Synth_sam> lol
<cbx333> all input is good input
<zleap> or maybe its due to it being an asp rather than html page
<Synth_sam> you have to think, microsoft designed IE, they shouldn't be trusted with the internet
<HazRPG> cbx333: well from what I can see, if you change {memoir} to {article} it changes the page numbers to a better format, however like I said when I compiled the book back to pdf, it sort of came up with a few errors on compile time (but hitting enter would make it continue)
<HazRPG> and the pdf looked funny for the first few pages
<HazRPG> cbx333: if I figure it out, I'll fork and upload it :)
<HazRPG> cbx333: its just strange to have the pages numbered alternating left and right, and then on the bottom for chapters
<Synth_sam> HazRPG cbx333: what's the LaTeX file?
<zleap> just tried validator on w3.org all ok
<HazRPG> especially if its going to be distributed as pdf (most will probably have it on their ebook reader)
<HazRPG> but even on print it will look odd if your looking for a specific page
<HazRPG> Synth_sam: hold on
<Synth_sam> k
<HazRPG> Synth_sam: gitt.tex
<HazRPG> if you change {memoir} to {article} it puts all the page numbers at the bottom
<HazRPG> but I'm not sure if using article as a template messes up a few other things on that LaTeX file
<Synth_sam> HazRPG: What document are you referring to, I have no point of reference.
<HazRPG> Synth_sam: https://github.com/cbx33/gitt
<Synth_sam> nm, google solved that
<Synth_sam> thanks
<cbx333> https://github.com/cbx33/gitt/wiki - HazRPG, see my new comments about After Hours sections
<cbx333> I want to give the reader steps to take it further if they want to
<cbx333> all in one place
<cbx333> I think it's important that they understand the technical mechanisms
<cbx333> HazRPG, I will look at the page numbering
<cbx333> tbph once I had a PDF that looked a little like the odt I had, fonts etc....I kinda stopped working on the LaTeX itself
<cbx333> but I would like to put some little icons in the breakout boxes
<cbx333> and shade them lightly with a grey percentage
<cbx333> lemme add that to the TODOs
<cbx333> feel free to raise an "issue" on github about the page numbering
<HazRPG> cbx333: looks good to me :)
<cbx333> sweet
<cbx333> it can be like John's over the weekend reading :)
<cbx333> I would call extra curricular activity
<brobostigon> has anyone experienced this in natty, when the whole screen would turn into one huge graphical artifact, its happened severaltimes today, and i canonly recover, by forceing reboot via pwer button.
<cbx333> but that could be taken several ways
<cbx333> now lemme delve into the page numbering
<HazRPG> cbx333: sure no problem I will :)
<bigcalm> brobostigon: can you ssh into the laptop from another machine and reboot from there?
<HazRPG> cbx333: yeah I do like the after hours idea :)
<brobostigon> bigcalm: i havent tried that yet.
<cbx333> HazRPG, interesting - in my version, the page numbers are always centered on every page
<cbx333> lemme do a fresh git clone and try
<HazRPG> hmm
<cbx333> ooooooh
<brobostigon> bigcalm: i will get my n800 and connect it up, so when it happpens, i will try and restart xorg.
<cbx333> I think there is a difference
<HazRPG> cbx333: check the link I PM'ed you with
<HazRPG> cbx333: hmm, so are you doing this in odt and saving as latex?
<cbx333> no no
<cbx333> I started the book in odt
<brobostigon> bigcalm: ok, i will try that next time it hapens.
<HazRPG> ah
<cbx333> HazRPG, ahhh yes i see your problem
<cbx333> what happens if you run the make pdf a second time
<cbx333> I have noticed that if you only run it once, the ToC isn't created for a start
<cbx333> it may be that a second run fixes the header too
<HazRPG> cbx333: hmm, I'll give that a try
<Myrtti> or you can run tex for the first and pdf for the second
<Myrtti> faster that way
<cbx333> ahh
<cbx333> Myrtti, I am still new to tex
<cbx333> but that makes sense
<HazRPG> cbx333: ah, see this is where the problem starts I get this error on make pdf "! LaTeX Error: File `fullpage.sty' not found."
 * Myrtti has worked with latex professionally for a year few years back
<HazRPG> and it asks for a filename
<cbx333> hmm
<HazRPG> to which I just hit enter
<cbx333> ahhh
<zleap> you need to add tyhe style to the latex preable
<cbx333> mine doesn't have that
<cbx333> gotta go put hte little one to bed
<zleap> ok
<cbx333> mine compiles without any errors
<cbx333> what ubuntu you on?
<cbx333> I'm on 10.10
<cbx333> need to see what other packages for tex i have installed
<zleap> lol @ the microsoft website being run through w3c validator
<HazRPG> cbx333: 10.10
<cbx333> hmm
<HazRPG> I apt-get texlive
<ali1234> cbx333: i have some general notes on my thoughts while reading the book so far
<zleap> i got texlive with the uk tug membership
<cbx333> ali1234, can ya pm me.....only cos I'm going afk for a little while to bath the little one
<cbx333> it seems I have a large number of tex packages
<cbx333> HazRPG, I'll give ya a list when i get back
<HazRPG> zleap: I thought texlive was free/foss
<zleap> it is
<cbx333> maybe do an packages.ubuntu.com search for that file
<zleap> but you get a copy when you join the uk tex user group
<cbx333> and also - maybe we should take this to a different channel - don't want to go too off topic for people
<zleap> there should be a latex channel
<Myrtti> texlive-latex-extra
<zleap> yeah
<HazRPG> Myrtti: is that the channel, or is that the file I might be missing?
<Myrtti> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/all/texlive-latex-extra/filelist
<mgdm> *grumble*
 * mgdm launches whoever patched Maverick's GCC into space
<penguin42> what's it doing to you?
<mgdm> actually it's probably openCV that is failing, by using a fragile version detection thing
<HazRPG> Myrtti: thanks :)
<zleap> hi MadLeomon
<Myrtti> when I was doing latex stuff I found the file listings for packages a lifesaver
<Myrtti> that, or apt-file
<Synth_sam> cbx333: I just built that file and page numbers are centred
<mgdm> Myrtti: Oh yeah, I remember that
<Synth_sam> gives a lot of badbox errors and warnings about obsolete options
<penguin42> Myrtti: apt-file is great
 * bigcalm skips off to Wolverhampton for Chinese buffet :D
<Myrtti> damnit 503
<shauno> anyone know how to get firefox to stop using F5 for refresh?
<Synth_sam> shauno: not off the top of my head, F5 is pretty standard for refresh, what's the issue?
<shauno> it claims ^R is the shortcut, and I have F5 bound elsewhere
<shauno> but ff is capturing it as refresh :/
<cbx333> yeh Synth_sam I got a lot of warnings too
<cbx333> not too sure how to deal with them
<cbx333> not overly happy with some of the hyphenation either
<Synth_sam> microtype is pretty good for that
<Synth_sam> allows adjustment of intraword spacing
<HazRPG> cbx333: ah yes... nevermind, ignore my issue - seems it was because I was missing a package
<HazRPG> Myrtti: again thanks :)
<cbx333> np
<HazRPG> this looks so much nicer
<cbx333> can you tell me what package so I can add it to the instructions
<Myrtti> texlive-latex-extra
<cbx333> thanks Myrtti
<HazRPG> might be worth putting on the "Building the Book" section that you need texlive and texlive-latex-extra
<cbx333> Myrtti, can you tell me the best way to modify the make file to do the tex bit first, and then the pdf generation so it orks first time
<cbx333> yup
<HazRPG> oh, seems you've already asked that :P
<cbx333> just about to do that
<Myrtti> cbx333: I ended up doing a script that does it all because I ran latex2html and stuff too
<ali1234> cbx333: add a dependency on the tex target to the pdf target
<cbx333> ok
<cbx333> i don't have a tex target :)
<cbx333> that's probably the issue
<cbx333> you know I can't even remember the command to just build the tex now
<Myrtti> latex
<Myrtti> :-)
<cbx333> hahaha
<cbx333> ko
<cbx333> oooh
<cbx333> if i run it with latex i get an error
<cbx333> cannot determine size of graphic
<cbx333> no bounding box
<cbx333> darn it
<Synth_sam> you have pdf images
<Myrtti> you can ignore some of the errors
<cbx333> i do - to keep the pdf size down
<cbx333> and make them scale nicely
<Myrtti> if it finishes the run without breaking with errors
<cbx333> ahh i see
<cbx333> anyway to force it to ignore those errors?
<Myrtti> it stops if the errors are fatal
<Synth_sam> you can't have pdf images with latex can you? I thought that you could only have eps and ps with latex
<Myrtti> jpg and png are ok in pdf
<HazRPG> shauno: what was it you said I needed to work on for my chiptune?
<Synth_sam> Myrtti: yes, pdflatex is more forgiving, but what are the filetypes for latex?
<cbx333> Synth_sam, well I have them and it seems to work
<Synth_sam> ok
<Synth_sam> I'd just heard that before
<Synth_sam> my bad
<Synth_sam> I'd try the microtype package with the pdf
<Synth_sam> it will probably reduce the amount of hyphenation at line-ends
<Synth_sam> I'd run it myself and let you know, but I'm updating my texlive at the moment
<cbx333> ahh ok
<cbx333> pdflatex seems to recompile the tex anyway, is that right Myrtti
<Myrtti> right
<HazRPG> oh wow, c64 has netplay :o
<Myrtti> the latex run is only so that it makes the auxiliary files for the actual pdflatex run
<Myrtti> so that the pdflatex has the files for making the toc and stuff
<Myrtti> if you can ignore the image errors - perhaps by forcing latex to ignore the filetype, the pdflatex will still work
<Myrtti> it's been a while since I've worked with latex though
<Baikonur> only latex i work with is pants
<Baikonur> no, wait
<cbx333> heheh
<cbx333> ko
<cbx333> thanks again all for your help
<cbx333> really appreciated
<cbx333> I hope this week I can start banging out some more large sections of text
<Synth_sam> compiled with microtype
<Synth_sam> will upload now
<Myrtti> just as long you don't upload the compiled latex on the vcs :-D
 * Myrtti facepalmed several times at work for a clueless workmate doing it over and over and over again
<Myrtti> and when I complained, she uploaded the zip files containing the pdf
<cbx333> haha
<Synth_sam> http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~pcxse1/gitt.pdf
<cbx333> yeh that's why i don't do anything like that
<cbx333> Synth_sam, looks good
<Synth_sam> cbx333: no hyphenation in the first 20 pages at least
<cbx333> ok
<cbx333> that's cool
<cbx333> Synth_sam, see my pm
<Synth_sam> k
<Synth_sam> I just added /usepackage[final]<microtype> to the preamble
<cbx333> what changes did that introduce
<cbx333> the lack of hyphenation?
<cbx333> HazRPG, did the headers and page numbers disappear after your extra installation?
<cbx333> brb
<Synth_sam> cbx333: it allows pdflatex to change the spaces betweeen letters in words with more control, so in general, it won't need to hyphenate
<Synth_sam> right, I'm off, ttyl
<shauno> good lord, have they not taken that 'file sharing' thread out back and shot it yet?
<HazRPG> cbx333: yes, it did :)
<HazRPG> cbx333: I must say, I do like the book - keep meaning to learn how to use git properly
<HazRPG> I've only ever used it for cloning out stuff with TortoiseGit
<HazRPG> but I do have projects in mind, and would like them hosted on such sites for others to help pitch in :)
<HazRPG> shauno: ?
<shauno> there's a thread on the mailing list that needs to be put out of it's misery :)
<HazRPG> shauno: ah
 * HazRPG goes to look
<HazRPG> shauno: isn't there another way to share files on linux then using samba?
 * HazRPG recalls something about ssh
<daftykins> HazRPG: sshfs ?
<daftykins> also, hi ^_^
<cbx333> HazRPG, yeh, i mean that's the whole reason for writing it - I want to show it being used in a practical environment - I find a lot of the time, I'll read a technical book and forget how to do pretty much everything I read
<daubers> HazRPG: nfs :)
<daftykins> fwiw, though it may not surprise anyone, windows 7 is utterly useless as a file server :>
<HazRPG> cbx333: it is a great idea :)
<HazRPG> daftykins: that's the one
<HazRPG> daubers: nfs?
<daftykins> though i don't really agree with SSHFS, depending upon what someone's trying to achieve
<daubers> For sharin files in Linux
<HazRPG> daftykins: doesn't surprise me tbh
<daftykins> it might be my hardware, but when saturating gigabit (as in actually 120MB/sec+) it still makes the 'server' service go a bit wobbly sometimes
<daubers> daftykins: I'm surprised you can get as high as 120MB/s on Gigabit, highest I've seen is 117
<shauno> I don't tend to think of sshfs as being a permenant fixture
<daftykins> daubers: yeah, SSD -> gigabit LAN -> 3ware RAID 5
<daftykins> and back again
<daftykins> easy peasy
<daubers> daftykins: I've gone 16 disk raid6 -> 16 disk raid6 and get 117 ish max
<daftykins> might just be the Windows numbers i see then
<daftykins> it's not consistent
<daubers> heh
<daubers> fair enough
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> it goes 110-125
<daubers> That'll be Windows doing it's standard amount of lying then :)
<daftykins> lets have a go right now
<daftykins> fo sho ^_^
<daftykins> 122, 137, 120. 112, 119...
<daubers> Theoretical peak is 125MB/s, so unless you're running with no overhead, I somehow doubt thats possible :)
<daftykins> yeah you're about right then for an average
<daftykins> i see your point but it's a little nitpicky ;)
<daubers> daftykins: Sorry, thats my job though :p
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> i've not really pushed the guy's 12TB RAID6 one
<daftykins> i was only just around there for the first time yesterday, in weeks
<daubers> I spent that a few months trying to get from an average of 117 to 119, and just about achieved it by cheating a little, so would have been damn impressed if you could best it
<daftykins> as the IT teaching i'm doing to help out is thieving my time
<daubers> I've got 8 of the new intel SSDs turning up soon
<daubers> Someone wants to do 2k format video editing on shared storage
<daubers> So he can use ~128 spinny disks, or 8 2.5" SSDs :)
<daftykins> cor
<daftykins> actually the media department at my college want something soon
<daftykins> i think they want to try and do some shared editing
<daftykins> anywho, mates over, bbl
<shauno> now this is starting to get confusing.  trying to figure out how to remove the 'launchpad' icon from 10.7's dock.  ubuntu's dominating the google results :)
<daubers> daftykins: Get them to give me a ring if they get stuck :)
<ali1234> shauno: have you tried clicking the icon with "ctrl-alt-cmd" pressed? (whatever that means)
<ali1234> shauno: or this: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1104263
 * brobostigon Haz chocolate buttons, :)
<penguin42> classic mac, 3 keys held and a mouse button
<penguin42> brobostigon: Oooh
<shauno> ali1234: yeah, it just keeps coming back on it's own :(
<shauno> think that one's going on radar, 'tis a bit pants
<shauno> it was more the namespace collision that I found interesting tho
 * brobostigon noms and make agreeable noises.
<mossa> arab
<jpds> wut.
<brobostigon> weird.
 * HazRPG grumbles
<HazRPG> either this document is too old and doesn't work with the most current version, or I'm doing something terribly wrong :/
<HazRPG> D0y should change the volume with y = number from 0-9, but its not working :S
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh hi :)
<HazRPG> ah seems I was using it wrong
<brobostigon> HazRPG: evening, :)
<HazRPG> ...but its setting the volume for ALL channels
 * HazRPG grumbles more
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
<HazRPG> must be a way to make something sound lower
<brobostigon> frequency lower?
<HazRPG> yeah I'm messing with sustain/release to see if that does it
<brobostigon> ah,
<HazRPG> ooo, yeah :D
<HazRPG> BB works better than FF :D
<brobostigon> BB ?
<HazRPG> hex codes
<brobostigon> ah.
<HazRPG> Sustain/Release: BB
<HazRPG> I had it set to FF originally
<HazRPG> although the problem now is that although its lower, the tone fades away quicker
<HazRPG> maybe BF might be better
<brobostigon> ok.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: messing with GoatTracker
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i admit to be somewhat clueless.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: GoatTracker is in the repo :)
<HazRPG> its an old c64 tracker
<HazRPG> to make songs :)
<HazRPG> in old-school form :)
<brobostigon> ok.
 * HazRPG likes chiptunes
<HazRPG> brobostigon: if you wanna try it out, I can send you the tutorial/manual type thing I managed to find (after several hours of digging)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64 is what I have so far
<brobostigon> HazRPG: maybe another day, iam quite tired.
<HazRPG> I've put the tutorial in that directory for you, so you can nab it from there :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: could you remind me earlier inanother dayplease. my brain is scrambld.
<brobostigon> thank you.
<HazRPG> yeah no problem :)
<brobostigon> thank you, :)
 * HazRPG gives out free hugs
 * brobostigon hugs HazRPG 
<HazRPG> hurray!
<HazRPG> also put the sample songs I've managed to find when digging through the intersurf-highway, so that you can load them up and see how they did things too :) - but I'll remind you another night
<ali1234> goattracker comes with examples in /usr/share/doc/goattracker/examples
<HazRPG> ali1234: wow, I really need to learn to look in there more often
<HazRPG> still not 100% keyed up on this whole thing yet
<HazRPG> but I haven't touched windows in the last 2 months now :)
 * HazRPG feels proud
<HazRPG> managed to avoid it for a year before, but the minute I was back in for whatever reason at the time... I was stuck in there again (for some god forsaken reason)
<HazRPG> although the difference between now and the last few times, I'm actually dedicated to learning the ins and outs of my system
<HazRPG> I do plan to start coding for multi-platform too (or at least learn how to), etc
<HazRPG> part of my new years resolution - better myself in the linux environment
<HazRPG> ali1234: thanks for the heads up
<zleap> hi
<zleap> just commented on a website for youg people that want to volunteer, if anyone can add to my comments feel free at http://www.vteamdevontorbay.org/v-is-coming-to-an-end/#comment-15
<HazRPG> zleap: hi :)
<zleap> hi
<HazRPG> wow, was there seriously no books published about the trackers in the 80's
 * HazRPG might be looking for the wrong thing
<penguin42> trackers?
<HazRPG> audio trackers
<HazRPG> for c64, etc
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> speccy user here :)
<zleap> anyone up for single channel sound beep beep
<HazRPG> zleap: it'll have had a tracker made for it at one point
<zleap> yeah
<penguin42> Model B here - 76489 yeh!
<zleap> i did have a sound sampler once
<HazRPG> see I had a MZ-721
<HazRPG> ... sadly no one ever remembers those
<zleap> and coded hey jude from a book then had to de bug the program from the book sio it played hey jude at ther right speed
<HazRPG> hehe
<zleap> coding from books was fun
<zleap> yeah played it too fast
<zleap> it was also the first 2 lines of the song,
<zleap> which given hey jude is actually quite long
<daftykins> daubers: the funny part is IT support won't have anything to do with the departments that use Macs, so this technician guy is gonna do some of their IT side stuff, but the thing is he doesn't really work with computers, he only does the techniciany side of things behind media
<daftykins> he's planning on buying a mac mini as a directory services sorta server right now as he was telling me something about Apple stopping selling XServes or something 0o
<daftykins> which is just a mistake imo
<HazRPG> heh
<daftykins> i've been tempted to get an ION 2 nettop for my third LCD again... hang it on the back maybe as a second system to permanently run Ubuntu
<daftykins> this is hilarious to me, from the Apple website
<daftykins> regarding OS X Server on a mac mini
<daftykins> "After selecting Mac mini with Snow Leopard Server, you can add up to 8GB of memory, external storage for RAID 5 data protection, Apple Remote Desktop software, an external SuperDrive, and other options."
<daftykins> basically saying, after buying you can plug all this stuff into it externally, to make it act like a REAL server >_<
<ali1234> yes, it clearly makes more sense to buy a dell server with windows or rhel and then spend 6 months and god knows how much money getting certified to use it
<zleap> windows
<AlanBell> evening all
<cbx333> right I think that's me out for the night - a large amount of changes to GITT tonight :)
<cbx333> not done any proofing on it yet :)
<daftykins> ali1234: err... actually my point is that it'd be better to get the Mac Pro server so components can be easily removed if found faulty.
<daftykins> i bet if the mac mini goes down, you're somewhat screwed
<ali1234> well yeah
<daftykins> ali1234: but of course you missed that, given you assumed my perspective :)
<ali1234> same is true whether you have to send for a new video card, or a whole new machine
<daftykins> no because those things can be sourced locally in an emergency
<daftykins> whereas somewhere here, with no Apple store, is a tad out of reach
<ali1234> really? they sell mac pro motherboards in your local PC shops?
<daftykins> ok, on a saturday night i really can't be bothered with your nitpicking attitude
<ali1234> i dunno why i said video card before... server doesn't need video card
<ali1234> well, ok then, don't nitpick others if you don't like it
<daftykins> you're just covering up the fact that you assumed incorrectly to begin with
<ali1234> and btw, original point still stands - if this was really mission critical stuff, it wouldn't be managed by somebody with no IT experience
<ali1234> in which case it actually would make sense to do what i said instead of using macs
<daftykins> but that was sarcasm...
<ali1234> but since it's clearly not even been considered, it's clearly not important to have things like SLA
<daftykins> no, public sector in education, the IT department has free reign to sit on their hands
<daftykins> but anyway, my original moan was that the guy considered a mac mini to run two departments off :D i don't think that's a good idea
<daftykins> funny, you went quiet.
<ali1234> in that guy's situation (ie i don't know how to diagnose PC hardware problems) i would do exactly the same thing
<daftykins> well, he has got some contact and advice from the IT support department that won't touch the macs
<daftykins> so hopefully they'll steer him sensibly
<daftykins> but what about if you *do* know, you'd still say it's fine to have a tiny little SFF system running a 60+ client network?
<ali1234> if they won't support a mac pro for him, then the logical choice is the mini
<daftykins> i'm not sure i follow
<daftykins> they're not going to support either
<ali1234> right
<daftykins> so why buy one more susceptible to failure?
<ali1234> who says the mini will be more susceptible to failure?
 * hamitron likes small devices for servers
<ali1234> i'm going to assume he knows better than to run the thing sandwiched in between a dvd player and a skybox like most people probably do
<hamitron> cheaper and when they break, just throw away
<daftykins> hahaha
<hamitron> but a mac isn't cheap ;)
<daftykins> neither would the storage be that they acquire eventually for their video editing
<daftykins> it raises a good question though
<daftykins> i certainly don't know what solution i'd go with to cater for say, even one class of maybe 20-30 macs doing video editing
<daftykins> i'd advise sticking to local editing followed by copying back to a large RAID array really
<daftykins> but even then it's less than ideal, conceptually
<hamitron> local ftw
<hamitron> pointless centralising, just to cause a headache
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> i was thinking of fragmentation + the wear and tear on a bunch of mechanical disks of a load of students editing directly from it
<hamitron> the thought makes me wanna cry :/
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i was trying to put in my 2p, but the guy works on another site at the other end of the island, i only met him once in the restaurant
<ali1234> editing from a central server is madness
<daftykins> having catering students run a restaurant one floor down from your classrooms = win \o/
<ali1234> you need specialist hardware for that
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> he did say something about 40 grand
<hamitron> do video editing tools work well remotely?
<hamitron> never had much to do with them
<mgdm> the video editing system at work is *insane*
<hamitron> just considering when the application is running on the server
<mgdm> but we are a TV station
<daftykins> mgdm: :O which one?
<daftykins> mgdm: any ideas what said system is like?
<hamitron> television X?
<mgdm> hamitron: No.
<hamitron> staff discount?
<hamitron> ah, nvm
<hamitron> ;)
<mgdm> daftykins: expensive. Fast. :)
<daftykins> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-06
<bigcalm> iain@iain-Studio-1558:~/www_idophp$ mkdir R
<bigcalm> iain@iain-Studio-1558:~/www_idophp$ cd R
<bigcalm> iain@iain-Studio-1558:~/www_idophp/R$ ls
<bigcalm> Why o why did I just do that last command?
<daftykins> force of habit
<daftykins> like putting your nose around a door and having a glance in, for a new room
<daftykins> you're expressing your male dominance :>
<daftykins> assuming your gender of course
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> meh
<hamitron> keep seeing pink bars across my screen
<hamitron> when I look closer they aren't there
 * hamitron is cracking up
<daftykins> i've had that
<daftykins> general hallucinations :>
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> omg
<hamitron> can't stand this, 130Gb to move into 100Gb space
<hamitron> sending me insane
<hamitron> gotta free up the hdd for new comp parts arriving this week
<shauno> re: hey jude .. http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kwn3lt2ksU1qzxzwwo1_500.jpg
<daftykins> hamitron: haha, that's tiny storage ;)
<daftykins> and tiny data too
<daftykins> XD
<hamitron> daftykins: there is more ;/
<hamitron> that is just the last stuff to move
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> i was going to say! modern times
<hamitron> yeh, even I would not struggle with just that amount ;/
<hamitron> problem is, data collections grow to the storage
<hamitron> and when you need to tweak storage setups, a pain
<daftykins> absolutely
<daftykins> *points at 75% full 5TB NTFS array on windows file server ;/*
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> exactly
<hamitron> so it wouldn't help, me putting more money into it
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> i spent way too much when i went from the previous RAID to this one
<hamitron> I got about 2.3tb of stuff
<hamitron> but I also like to keep multiple copies, in case a drive breaks
<hamitron> so that kinda makes it harder
<hamitron> I could free 22Gb by uninstalling 2 games
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but I have to "live" till later in the week
<daftykins> yeah i only copy my music to other drives really
<shauno> HazRPG: it mostly wasn't done with trackers in c64 era.  you literally just stuff the right values into the right registers.  the good news is they did documentation properly back then; http://archive.6502.org/datasheets/mos_6581_sid.pdf  :D
<HazRPG> shauno: Cool, thanks.
 * hamitron spanks Azelphur
<HazRPG> wait... what did I say for you to post that?
 * HazRPG feels confused
<shauno> something about books a while back.  just got back from watching a movie
<HazRPG> ah
 * Azelphur counter spanks hamitron
<hamitron> :-o
<HazRPG> for a second there, I though you were somehow reading the blog post I was about to do
<hamitron> what is with the zz renames?
<hamitron> happened last night too
<daftykins> 0o
<shauno> books on trackers would be odd.  maybe magazine articles, but anyone serious enough about it to buy a book would just be writing code
<mgdm> hamitron: at a guess it's a mildly irritating way to indicate he's away :)
<hamitron> mgdm: maybe, but he needs to sleep for longer
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> it's been proven that Azelphur never sleeps
<hamitron> :)
<daftykins> Azelphur: did you ever rig up that lighting system to indicate when someone's at your door whilst you have headphones on?
<Azelphur> hamitron: means I got dc'd or more likely X crashed again :P
<hamitron> ah
<hamitron> X sucks
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> daftykins: I have a USB doorbell
<Azelphur> it runs aplay doorbell.wav
<hamitron> serious?
<daftykins> XD!
<Azelphur> yup
<mgdm> daubers has a Jabber doorbell
<hamitron> it would be more fun to run shutdown -h 120
<hamitron> then you could tell sales people you have to get back to something
<Azelphur> I'd show the photo but nautilus has randomly decided it's not going to show thumbnails for most of my photos today
<Azelphur> so it's impossible to find.
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> if ever in life i feel overcome by change
<daftykins> i'll come on here and wait for Azelphur to mention a bug he's got going on
<daftykins> and i'll find some solace
<hamitron> hehe
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> I've got lots atm
<Azelphur> including "Lets just randomly freeze for up to 60 seconds every time you play a game"
<hamitron> :(
<hamitron> well, you should change to an i3 cpu
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> and "If you move the mouse while you're freezing, heaven forbid, I'm going to make the mouse pointer flicker forever and X unresponsive until you kill it"
<Azelphur> :P
<hamitron> or we could swap comps?
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> I have it all pegged to multi X screen bugs tbh
<hamitron> I should point out I don't have an i3 yet...
<nucc1> if your X hangs, and you manage to login from another machine via SSH, what command should you run to fix it?
<penguin42> nucc1: you can try   sudo stop gdm     and then   sudo start gdm
<Azelphur> nucc1: I tried going to ubuntu-x and here and asked that question, got nowhere :(
<Azelphur> haha, besides that.
<hamitron> sudo shutdown -r 0 is more reliable
<Azelphur> yay I found the photo of the USB doorbell http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/July%202010/2010-07-22%2017.36.43.jpg
<nucc1> shutdown -r 0 is like reboot?
<daftykins> yep
<hamitron> yeh
<daftykins> i always use that
<daftykins> sudo shutdown -h and -r
<nucc1> cos i notice that trying to restart X doesn't usually yield any results
<hamitron> with a number, or "now"
<daftykins> Azelphur: you sir, are a pioneer!
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> it's actually very simple to do, requires no hardware hacking, and can be done for about Â£2
<hamitron> firefox is acting all weird
<daftykins> nucc1: "sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart" would be the one
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> nucc1: though you wouldn't need to SSH from another comp, you should be able to switch to a TTY? ctrl+alt+f1 etc?
<Azelphur> I simply bought one of those cheapo Panic / Boss mode buttons and plugged it in
<nucc1> daftykins, not when X is frozen
<daftykins> ah ok
<Azelphur> it seems to send some weird key combo like ctrl+alt+shift+meta+5
<daftykins> just checking :D
<Azelphur> so I just used xbindkeys to bind it to aplay doorbell.wav and we have a winner
<nucc1> Azelphur,  clicking on the link you gave has made my xchat start acting funny
<nucc1> i am typing blind :p
<Azelphur> ITS BUG DAY
<nucc1> lol
<Azelphur> :P
<nucc1> i only see square boxes, like undefined unicode points
<hamitron> Azelphur: I see a sign on a door, not a door bell
<nucc1> lemme reboot it.
<Azelphur> hamitron: I suppose that's because the awesome sign is disrtracting you from the also awesome doorbell
<hamitron> it is frightening me
<nucc1> lol, the doorbell is not the most prominent thing int he pic
<hamitron> I shall never ask questions again
<Azelphur> :D
<hamitron> and you need a lesson on photography
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> not really, that was actually a photo of the poster on the door
<Azelphur> it just also happens to have the doorbell in it
<hamitron> ah, well, you should of told me it was bottom right
<hamitron> it isn't in focus though :/
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> would be no good for me
<hamitron> I break my comp too often
<daftykins> you're talking to Azelphur :>
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> ah, true :D
<Azelphur> yea, people asked me what happens if your computer is turned on
<Azelphur> turned off*
<nucc1> HA HA HA
<hamitron> hehe
<Azelphur> but the simple obvious answer to that is if my computer ain't on, I ain't listening to music and I can hear you outside the door.
<Azelphur> just say "let me in"
<Azelphur> lol
<daftykins> :O the secret code word
<daftykins> *scribbles*
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> gives you time to hide the tissues at least ;)
<hamitron> and ffs, anyone else here use libreoffice?
<shauno> is it not fairly obvious that if your computer isn't running, you're too busy to answer the door anyway?
<hamitron> hehe
<nucc1> what about libreoffice?
<hamitron> it won't uninstall
<hamitron> on windows though
<nucc1> poof
<hamitron> just hanging
 * nucc1 hits hamitron with a laddle
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, I don't want my blog to sound inaccurate, have a quick skim through and see if this sounds ok: http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/2011/03/06/trackers-music-software/
<HazRPG> if you don't mind that is :)
 * hamitron hides
 * nucc1 has deployed a scarecrow aimed at winxp users
<HazRPG> hamitron: hmm, I haven't had trouble uninstalling LibreOffice from windows...
<nucc1> the uninstaller is running out of HIGH_MEM
<daftykins> so toke some more
<daftykins> *ahem*
<daftykins> sorry.
<daftykins> i do not condone the above action
<nucc1> there are a large number of "above action"
<daftykins> when?
<daftykins> i don't know the convo
<shauno> HazRPG: not sure what to tell you; appears your site makes my browser assplode
<shauno> :)
<HazRPG> waaaa?
<hamitron> bah, coffee time
<shauno> hm, I don't have dropbox on here atm
<nucc1> shauno, what kind of browser??
<shauno> an intarwebs browser!
<HazRPG> how? I changed that theme to a crisper/clearer theme when I started blogging again (the old one did some javascript wizardry to make the colours change slowly - was pretty cool, but lagged out on some browsers)
<shauno> (safari  5.1 (7534.20.8) on osx 10.7.  I'm finding bugs pretty much everywhere I look :)
<dwatkins> HazRPG: sounds fascinating
<HazRPG> dwatkins: my post?
<HazRPG> :)
<nucc1> shauno, i have to say that browser needs to lose two letters off the end of its name.
<dwatkins> HazRPG: the idea of colour cycling on your blog
<HazRPG> dwatkins: it was rather random
<daftykins> safa? that's not funny at all :(
<shauno> nucc1: not many alternatives unfortunately.  I don't hate myself enough to use firefox for day-to-day browsing
<nucc1> shauno, chrome and FF4 aren't options?
<HazRPG> dwatkins: I think it just changed the hue of the background image, which looked like the northern lights
<shauno> FF is never an option.  chrome is pretty much zero-gain
<HazRPG> dwatkins: was rather cool, but it was a 50/50 game with some machines for some reason
<HazRPG> shauno: I thought you used chrome?
<daftykins> i'd rather anything than Safari
<shauno> I use chrome at work
<nucc1> shauno, your choice. I don't think i need to know your reasons. FF4 has been giving me joy since i can remember.
<shauno> FF gives me joy.  very, very slowly.  until it pigs out all the ram it can get it's hands on, I kill it, and start receiving joy (slowly) from scratch again
<nucc1> lol. how long on average is your uptime before it pigs out?
<shauno> rarely more than 5 hours
<HazRPG> firefox wouldn't like my browsering habits :/
<nucc1> i've got about 80 tabs here, and it's got 1.3G of Virtual memory, and 661mb of resident.
<shauno> (because in an unrelated problem I have with it, it always crashes during my lunchbreak)
<nucc1> lol. havent' experienced a crash in dog years
<HazRPG> or should I say doesn't like
<nucc1> HazRPG, how so?
<shauno> I haven't crashed ff since friday.  I also haven't used it since friday :/
<HazRPG> erm, my browser never closes?
<HazRPG> just like my PC
<nucc1> HazRPG, so what do you use that is so infinitely stable and resource efficient?
<HazRPG> nucc1: chrome does my job just fine :)
<nucc1> me, i just kill it when it gets too heavy and run it again.
<HazRPG> nucc1: you shouldn't have to do that though
<nucc1> i just do it when i feel like
<nucc1> i don't really get prompted.
<nucc1> when i start wondering what is happening to my 4G of ram, i just pick random guys to kill
<nucc1> FF and evolution usually go first.
<nucc1> WTF, java is currently sitting on 1.2G.
<nucc1> darn. musta been the experiments i've been doing lately
<hamitron> it is a nasty habbit leaving a browser open
<hamitron> I am trying to break my habbit
<hamitron> :)
<nucc1> wow, it's crazy what programs of nowadays do to ram
<nucc1> i've got little hotot here happily munching 512mb of VM
<nucc1> whatever it needs that much for.
<nucc1> off with its head
<hamitron> day to day stuff needs more ram than high end games :/
<shauno> I have a web app open for 12 hours a day at work.  having to kill things because they can't behave really isn't; well, shouldn't be normal
<daftykins> keeping the browser open isn't mine
<daftykins> keeping a million tabs that i never finish with open, is :>
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> that is why I never close my browser
<nucc1> yea, so many tabs i don't want to close cos i'm not sure i'm done with them
<hamitron> "I will read them pages later"
<nucc1> similar situation with my "Downloads" folder
<nucc1> its so large now that it takes up to a minute to load in nautilus.
<hamitron> I have "old_downloads1,2,3,4,etc"
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> ~/Downloads is death row on my machine.  if you're still in there 7 days layer, you go straight to the bitbucket
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> I half think browsers should start downloading things straight to the Trash, so you can just hit empty at the end of the day
<nucc1> shauno, you got a cronjob for that?
<shauno> I do
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> so lazy... I am impressed :)
<nucc1> shauno, where is it :)
<nucc1> won't mind to rig that kind of setu
<nucc1> setup*
<shauno> that's a good question; not on my regular OS atm
 * shauno goes poking
<hamitron> what if you are unable to get to your comp for a week?
<nucc1> then you download it again
<hamitron> due to say illness
<nucc1> if you can't remember it, then you didn't really need it.
<shauno> then I'll download it again
<hamitron> I am the opersite
<hamitron> I keep everything "in case"
<shauno> I let the internet hoard stuff :)
<nucc1> only files i create myself are "never delete"
<hamitron> I wonder if you can get everything I still have
<shauno> if it's in ~/Downloads, it can be downloaded again
<shauno> there's some stuff in /Volumes/Vault that I don't fancy trying to dig up again.  but that's why it wasn't left to language in d/ls
<shauno> gah, languish
<nucc1> lol
<shauno> if that just autocorrected my spelling I'm going to go nuts
<nucc1> autocorrect on the pc?
<nucc1> hmmm
<shauno> osx 10.7
<nucc1> its the first thing i turn off on my phones.
<shauno> I'm rather worried about how much parts of it are starting to feel like a giant cellphone
<nucc1> lol
<nucc1> i don't mind.
<nucc1> i just don't like autocorrect.
<nucc1> it is dumb
<nucc1> "last night, i got really sacred..."
<hamitron> if it is new and different, like normal I complain :)
<nucc1> stupid thing thinks that "sacred" is more commonly used than "scared"
<shauno> my only real complaint with autocorrect is that I curse like a sailor, and my phone apparently doesn't
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> other than that, it does a better job than my thumbs
<hamitron> I find fingers helpful
<nucc1> it just helped you spell "language", when you meant to type a shorter word. that doesn't bother you?
<shauno> I'm not sure if it did.  and I'm not sure it didn't.  I can't seem to replicate it, but it strikes me as a surprisingly readable typo
<hamitron> sometimes you can type the wrong words though
<nucc1> very funny.
<hamitron> different to the ones you are thinking
<nucc1> someone just tried a password guess on my ssh port
 * HazRPG likes autocorrect on pidgin
<hamitron> :/
<nucc1> and i noticed because i have system-monitor open, and the process jumped to the top of the list
<hamitron> I like it to highlight bad spelling
<shauno> I tend to turn that off
<HazRPG> however irritating this is when I try to type an equation out e.g. x = why + z
<nucc1> i need it for getting at my files from outside the house
<shauno> I don't mind on my phone, because I really can't type with two thumbs
<nucc1> i installed fail2ban though.
<HazRPG> it changes the Y to "Why", and the only way to correct is hit backspace to tell it that you meant to type that and then continue from there
<shauno> but everywhere else, I preferr to have to think about what I'm typing
<daftykins> nucc1: non-standard port?
<nucc1> nah, standard port
<nucc1> i'm too lazy
<hamitron> it takes no effort to change :/
<shauno> there's a guy at work that comes off as illiterate, because Lotus doesn't do spelling inline.  I'm terrified of ending up like that
<hamitron> where does ubuntu log ssh logins by default?
<nucc1> /var/log/auth.log
<nucc1> i usually do sudo tail /var/log/auth.log
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> not located there on this vps
<nucc1> ls /var/log
<shauno> that the cheap one from buyvm?
<hamitron> yes
<nucc1> i think all auth messages are logged to that file
<shauno> they don't have any syslogd running (or installed) in their default build
<hamitron> ah, ty
<shauno> pam puts everything in auth,log, but it does so via syslog
<shauno> they have barely anything running at all.  it's actually kinda nice
<shauno> I have a backup MX on their $15 plan.  I think it's all of 6 processes in 15-20Mb of ram
<nucc1> i wish i had some booze right now :(
<hamitron> I like it
<hamitron> just not using it atm
<hamitron> :/
 * nucc1 dozes off
<shauno> http://paste.ubuntu.com/576240/   this is my idea of a tidy house :)
<hamitron> I wish the ping for buyvm was lower
<hamitron> but based in hong kong?
<shauno> cron's only there because I like to logrotate
<shauno> hk?  mine appears to be in fremont, california
<hamitron> I thhought mine was in the US
<hamitron> but now if I use it was a tunnel, I get to google.com.hk
<hamitron> shauno: mine appears to be too
<hamitron> apart from when I browse the web from it
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> proxy?
<shauno> hm, trace route puts the last hops in mine as palo-alto->fremont.  tis convincing
<shauno> you're right tho
<shauno> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Found
<shauno> Location: http://www.google.com.hk/ [following]
<shauno> wget gets pointed to .hk
<hamitron> trace route does look good
<hamitron> is hk better for dodgy dealings? ;)
<shauno> and this is correcting my typing.  I didn't put a space in traceroute
<hamitron> I did
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> it maybe explains why it is so cheap
<shauno> heh, that's funky.  geoip puts it in idaho, which makes even less sense.  they don't have computers in idaho.
<shauno> they have potatoes.
<hamitron> he.net does have part of its network in hong kong
<daftykins> you two are just having a far too confusing setup for me to handle
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> I did try using it as a proxy for hulu.  hulu liked it, my latency didn't
<hamitron> it is a vps with sshd ;/
<daftykins> it's in hong kong, California and Idaho
<shauno> he.net also have part of their network in london.  and paris.  they're not small :)
<hamitron> yeh, looking at the map
<shauno> daftykins: trying to figure out where the vps are physically hosted
<hamitron> but basing it on the fact we get vps dirt cheap...
<hamitron> hk springs to mind
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> really?  insane property prices / population density?
<daftykins> two kids to a shauno / hamitron VPS bed
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> that's not where I would put warehouse-sized hist farms
<shauno> host
<hamitron> what about in a cave just outside?
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> there's not much 'outside'
<daftykins> right, gotta sleep
<daftykins> ttfn all o/
<hamitron> nn dafty
<shauno> night daffy
<daftykins> <3
<hamitron> my main grudge is the ping
<hamitron> I was playing with the idea of using it for interactive stuff
<shauno> ditto
<shauno> I was curious if it's just because they pack the "cheap as dirt" plans in like sardines
<shauno> but never felt enticed to try any of their other plans.  not throwing good money after bad
<hamitron> I like the service tbh
<hamitron> just gives me something if I need it
<shauno> the price is right for a failover MX
<shauno> the latency means that's about all I'll use it for
<shauno> for everything else, I'll stick with bitfolk :)
<hamitron> getting 150ms on mine
<hamitron> to google in the uk
<hamitron> 25ms to google if I use their dns
<hamitron> 220ms from here
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> 2-300ms for ping, but I've taken much longer than that to establish connections with them most times
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I may write a quick tcp server/client and log the real time
<hamitron> not at 2am though
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> :o)
<hamitron> have you found yours stable?
<shauno> yeah, but it doesn't really do much :)
<hamitron> I've been tempted to tunnel a load of stuff through it
<hamitron> just so I am using it
<hamitron> but dunno :/
<shauno> I tried.  adding 3 seconds onto every http connection wasn't good for my blood pressure.
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> gonna try it now
<shauno> and it's not just the time it takes to establish a connection.  hulu was unstreamable
<shauno> it tried.  I got the spiny wheel for a good 30 seconds.  then it played 2-3 seconds of video, and went back to spinning the wheel
<hamitron> I may put torrents through it
<hamitron> avoid hassle
<shauno> there's half a chance you're not the only one, and that's why the cheap packages are net bound :p
<hamitron> net bound?
<hamitron> well, will do anyway
<hamitron> rather pay the monthly price of most vps, just once a year
<hamitron> I did like their control panel too
<hamitron> the way you can backup the entire filesystem to a file
<hamitron> and change dns easy
<shauno> I think that's it.  you're getting what you pay for
<shauno> 77 pence a month, if the only complaint is the ping is 200ms higher than you'd like, you're not doing too bad :)
<hamitron> yep
<shauno> that said, it's never going to replace my "proper" vps
<hamitron> this is my only vps
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but it is only a toy
<hamitron> my email/web hosting is elsewhere
<hamitron> google ;)
<shauno> I have mail, web, & voip on mine .. and irssi lives there too
<hamitron> suppose the voip is the big thing
<hamitron> well, others are if they are essential too :)
<shauno> it's not all that bad for cpu/ram, but it'd be very unforgiving of buyvm's latency
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> have you tested burst data transfers?
<shauno> atm it's using 45Mb with 3 users
<shauno> my 'worst offender' for ram is dropbox :(
<shauno> which right now, is using as much as everything else combined
<hamitron> omfg
<hamitron> I was using 9Mb ram without logging
<hamitron> now using 32mb ;/
<shauno> that doesn't sound right.  I'm using 12Mb with cron, postfix & syslogd
<hamitron> reboot and see
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> you aren't on node22 are you?
<shauno> dunno.  how do I see?
<hamitron> erm
<hamitron> can't remember
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> any signs of it in traceroute?
<shauno> ah.  node23 is the first stop on trace route going outbound
<hamitron> 31284kb ram used on fresh boot
<hamitron> rsyslogd?
<shauno> nah, just syslogd
<hamitron> oh
<hamitron> that will be why
<shauno> haven't seen a good reason to replace it yet
<hamitron> it can stay for now
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> dunno why I went for bloat
<hamitron> so unlike me
<shauno> on things I don't plan on fiddling with often, I prefer to avoid complexity
<shauno> if I was a little less lazy, I probably would have thrown upstart out the window by now too
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> how much of ubuntu can be thrown out?
<hamitron> and keeping ubuntu I mean
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> almost all of it :)
<hamitron> can you get rid of python?
 * shauno tries
<shauno> hm, it'd take ufw with it
<shauno> otherwise, yes
<hamitron> oh, I thought a load of stuff used it
<hamitron> :D
<shauno> well, that's on the vas, where "a load of stuff" isn't installed
<shauno> er, vps
<hamitron> once I get my new comp, will try playing with vps
<hamitron> atm I only have 2gb ram and I struggle
<hamitron> weird
<hamitron> vps on yahoo has taken me to canada
<shauno> hah, nice
<shauno> I think it is just geoip being screwy
<hamitron> anyways, off to bed, nn all o/
<HazRPG> hamitron: later dude
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> how does this sound to you?
<HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64/Tune1-v0.4.ogg
<HazRPG> I'm beginning to think I might not be cut out for this... I like the fast drum beat, but I don't want to start the song just like that, cos it's a bit in your face type thing
<HazRPG> Guessing no ones around lol
<ali1234> i think you need a longer intro
<HazRPG> knew it sounded like something was off
<HazRPG> so its not just me :)
<ali1234> probably 12 bars instead of 4
<HazRPG> hmm, I'm not 100% keyed up on music theory/writing
<ali1234> "make it 3 times longer"
<HazRPG> ah, the whole 3/4 thing
<HazRPG> (as its written in notes)
<ali1234> time signature
<HazRPG> although I have a feeling that's more to do with ...
<HazRPG> yeah that
<ali1234> you're using 4:4
<ali1234> but don't worry if time signature makes no sense - there is no mathematical rule to it
<ali1234> at least none that i could discern
<HazRPG> I know a few people who do mathematical music
<HazRPG> and some of it can sound really random
<HazRPG> and only math/music geeks can pick up on it
<HazRPG> can't remember the technical term for it
<HazRPG> hmm, trying to work out how many pattern sheets more I need then
<HazRPG> current that section is on 1 sheet of 64
<HazRPG> currently*
<ali1234> just the intro?
<HazRPG> yeah
<ali1234> so you want 2 more?
<HazRPG> its speeded up though
<ali1234> hmm... why?
<HazRPG> cos if I slow it down, it doesn't sound right
<ali1234> well yeah but... tempo should be the same
<ali1234> the length of the intro is exactly the same as the length of one loop of the main loop bit
<HazRPG> no, the whole thing is set as F05
<ali1234> wall clock length that is
<HazRPG> I'm guessing you've used gt before, after the note letter xxF05 is what I have it set as
<HazRPG> xx being the instrument number
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> i was wondering what those numbers meant though
<HazRPG> F is the command for setting tempo
<HazRPG> the 2 numbers after that represents the tempo
<ali1234> awesome
<ali1234> so yeah
<HazRPG> the value can be from 03-7F for global
<ali1234> the pattern block for the intro and the main loop... are played at same tempo?
<HazRPG> so my guess would be its set at somewhere like 160 tempo?
<HazRPG> yeah, I've set the tempo only once
<HazRPG> if I was moving it around, it would sound strange
<ali1234> yeah
<HazRPG> the default tempo isn't to my liking either though, which is why I changed it
<HazRPG> like I said, I'm guessing 05 sets it to roughly 160
<HazRPG> but I could be wrong
<ali1234> i assume tempo sticks throughout the whole song unless it sees another tempo command?
<HazRPG> it does yes :)
<HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64/Tune1.v0.4-normal.sid
<HazRPG> that's it at normal tempo
<HazRPG> like I said, it sounds odd
<ali1234> sounds ok... depends what you;re going for
<ali1234> what it sounds like to me (and consider that i have no talent for actually making music at all) is you want to repeat the intro 2x, and on the second time, end it one tone higher, and hold that note for another 4 bars (with some weird effects or something) and then bring in the main loop
<ali1234> also i kind of like the slow version
<HazRPG> if you want, when I'm done, I'll give you a slow version :)
<HazRPG> if I'm getting this right, you mean have one whole sheet of 64 with one note held through it?
<ali1234> well not *just* that but yeah basically
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> I'll see what happens
<HazRPG> :)
<ali1234> but again it really depends what you're going for
<ali1234> slow version is more kind of a hip hop tempo
<ali1234> fast version is more like house tempo, which is more where i was coming from
<HazRPG> yeah, see I like both those types of music, but it was more the house type I was going for
<HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/music/c64/fav/
<HazRPG> those are some of the songs that I like, that I want sort of similar sort of effect
<HazRPG> ooo wait I missed one
<HazRPG> mainly cadaver2.sid and spektral_i.sid
<HazRPG> and you'll notice where I'm sort of coming from
<ali1234> they all sound completely different to me :)
<HazRPG> its mainly the effects I like from most of them
<HazRPG> I'm not like most people that only listen to one type of music, I like all sorts
<ali1234> lol you stole the hook from cadaver2
<HazRPG> *blushes*
<HazRPG> yup
<ali1234> a lot of this sid stuff is really weird and complex
<ali1234> it's almost like prog rock in how much it changes through out the song
<ali1234> which is ok, but not very catchy
<HazRPG> you mean the one's I've put up?
<HazRPG> or in general?
<ali1234> well, cavader2 in particular
<ali1234> but i've noticed it in a lot of sid music
<ali1234> i think it's cos they are trying to not get repetitive when you listen to it on a loop in a game
<HazRPG> I think its more to do with the time constraint it takes to make just one song
<HazRPG> that could also explain it too
<ali1234> my favourite sid tune is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1stW0J7Myew
<HazRPG> but those sid's I've put up, some are made in 2009-2011 though
<ali1234> and notice that it's the loading music, it plays once and then it's over
<HazRPG> ahhh good ol' arkanoid :)
<shauno> heh, that's funny, I've noticed a lot of my favourite chiptune is taito's newer stuff
<shauno> they've still 'got it'
<ali1234> there's a hardsid version of that one on youtube somewhere, can't find it now
<HazRPG> shauno: really, taito is still making chiptunes?
<shauno> I think it's all just synth, but trying to keep to the style .. ish
<HazRPG> hmm, probably an outrageous question, but do newer sound cards not function in the same way as they use to? Is it not possible to force it to make music similar to how SID's worked
<HazRPG> ?*
<ali1234> no :)
<shauno> the closest left is midi.  otherwise, no
<ali1234> synthesis type is totally different
<shauno> DAC is superior in pretty much every way
<shauno> chiptune just plays to our nostalgia :)
<HazRPG> isn't DAC used in synths?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> but in a different way
<HazRPG> shauno: you would be correct on that one :)
<ali1234> i mean any computer sound chip is by definition a DAC...
<ali1234> and so is a video card
<ali1234> unless it's hdmi
<ali1234> or dvi-d
<HazRPG> hmm, yeah I guess
<ali1234> of course you can have a totally analogue synth too
<ali1234> anyway, sid uses something called direct digital synthesis
<ali1234> which basically means it works in fixed point and changes the pitch by changing the sample rate
<ali1234> then it has a bunch of analogue filters
<HazRPG> I could be wrong, but it's the resistors that cause it to change the sample rate correct?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> sample rate is controled in digital logic
<ali1234> it works with a 24 bit register
<ali1234> that's the phase accumulator
<ali1234> then you have the pitch control register
<ali1234> at a fixed interval the pitch register gets added to the phase accumulator
<ali1234> then it takes the top few bits of that result and that indexes into the wave table
<ali1234> you can program this in software very easily actually
<ali1234> then write the result into a wave file or the sound card
<ali1234> that's what resid does, along with the filter simulation (which is much harder for obvious reasons)
<HazRPG> yeah I'm trying to avoid using the filter table in GoatTracker, because a few of the raw sng files I downloaded were direct copies from the c64 and some didn't play right (compared to the mp3 they had on download)
<HazRPG> there's some documentation lying around that mention that using the filter should be tested on a c64 first, otherwise you'll get different results on the PC
<HazRPG> something along the lines that the way the SID worked, you could input values and it'd do some really cool effects that shouldn't technically come out
<HazRPG> tried a few of those values and it just crashes goattracker
<HazRPG> or at least the audio part of goattracker, have to open/close it to get sound back
<HazRPG> I should really get back into my hardware tbh
<HazRPG> ali1234: the only reason I said resistors is because about 4 years ago I bought a few chips, wires and bits n bobs from my local tech/hardware shop
<ali1234> you can make a whole midi synth on an avr these days
<HazRPG> and I was producing sound using a 555 timing chip, a speaker and some resistors
<ali1234> ew
<ali1234> that's even more basic than DDS
<ali1234> that's basically entirely analogue
<HazRPG> I was mucking about :P
<HazRPG> yeah I figured it was
<ali1234> that's the kind of circuit they use in those toy keyboards they sell in the pound shops
<ali1234> it's *really* innaccurate... if you ever played one, you'll notice it sounds like it's detuned
<HazRPG> DDS - as in direct digital synthesizer?
<ali1234> yes
<shauno> there's a pretty good block diagram showing what makes it tick on that pdf I found earlier.  http://archive.6502.org/datasheets/mos_6581_sid.pdf  on page2
<shauno> fantastic thing about 80s stuff, is when you find the actual docs, they tend to be goldmines that make modern documentation seem like it was written by a 4yo
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> i wish computers still had proper docs
<ali1234> even when you can get a TRM or something it's usually rubbish
<HazRPG> shauno: oh yeah, that was the doc you sent me earlier :)
<HazRPG> I still have that open :)
<shauno> I dunno I'd want to see docs like that for my laptop :/
<shauno> I have block diagrams & schematics of my amiga, and both the third-party cards in it
<shauno> can you imagine how messy that'd be for a modern machine?
<HazRPG> you know it took me hours of sprawling the internet for find some documentation on the 555 timer when I was mucking about with it - ended up finding the solution in a physics good
<HazRPG> s/good/book
<shauno> there's not really much to know about 555/6, which is why you'll struggle with that
<HazRPG> shauno: I can imagine having the schematics of just an intel/amd chip by itself would be a massssssssive document
<shauno> stick juice in this end, and a resistor between these two pins.  if you don't like the results, pick a different resistor
<HazRPG> shauno: indeed
<ali1234> yup. basic rc oscillator. highly unstable :)
<shauno> older stuff is totally worth googling datasheets for tho
<HazRPG> the information was in the physics book I found at a bookshop, came in handy for figuring out different resistors by colour, etc
<shauno> heh.  15 years ago I would have been able to do that without thinking
<shauno> now ... well, there's an app for that (tm)
<HazRPG> I wanted to do electronics at school, but when my mum decided to move to saudi - that threw that dream out the window :(
<HazRPG> they didn't have electronics as a subject in saudi sadly
<shauno> altho for the most part I don't think you learn to 'read the bands' so much
<HazRPG> don't get me wrong, physics does go into it - buts it's a lot more varied
<ali1234> they don't teach you much in secondary school electronics courses
<shauno> as just recognise certain combinations off-hand
<ali1234> they didn't in the one i did anyway
<ali1234> it was basically physics lite
<shauno> since they're all multiples of a few base values.  1.2, 3.3, 4.7, etc.   you eventually learn to just pick out the first number, and the x10 multiplier, and jobs' done
<shauno> when I did electronics in 95-96ish, it was almost entirely digital logic
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, wasn't the case at the school I was looking at before we moved away, even taught how to make your own PCB's etc
<shauno> the gcse stuff seemed to value making a 'product' out of it over actually knowing .. anything
<ali1234> actually the sum total of what i learned about electronics before university is: V=IR, P=IV, and you need a circuit for current to flow
<HazRPG> shauno: gotta remember, most of primary/secondary school science is a lie anyway
<ali1234> so basically enough to light up a lightbulb
<HazRPG> ali1234: wow seriously?
<shauno> eg, if you stuck a switch, a latch, and a buzzer together, but dressed it up as a burglar alarm, that's perfectly valid gcse coursework
<HazRPG> that sucks
<ali1234> shauno: i know right? i did exactly that
<ali1234> i dressed it up as "computer theft alarm" though
<HazRPG> ali1234, shauno: I did that in primary school >_<
<ali1234> actually, *everyone* in the whole class did some kind of alarm system
<shauno> I think one of my friends did a 'automatic headlight dimmer' as his final
<HazRPG> wow
<HazRPG> high tech :P
<shauno> which is basically an ldr & a transistor.  with enough incoming light to trip the transistor, you've got a B
<HazRPG> in primary school we also jigged together a traffic light system
<shauno> I made a superhet because that's what I was into at the time, and got totally marked down on it because it was a pcb & a huge varicap nailed to a bit of wood
<ali1234> my cheesy 3 component circuit got a me B
<shauno> (huge, air spaced cap with a geared drive.  I thought that was the best thing ever for several years)
<HazRPG> shauno: surely a superhet is more complex than a burglar alarm though (sort of)
<shauno> sure.  but it fails pretty much every tickbox
<HazRPG> that's harsh
<HazRPG> am I right in thinking most if not all TV's and Radio's use to use superhets?
 * HazRPG does a quick google to confirm 
<shauno> I have no idea what they use now that everything's chip-based
<shauno> but yeah, it was a shortwave radio
<shauno> which is pretty much why it fails.  there's very little original design in the circuit itself.  the hard part was trying to get it all on a board without the 455 from the IF just bleeding all over everything
<shauno> it didn't have a "this is the problem, this is how I want to solve it, and here's the marketable 'product'
<shauno> so the written component of the coursework was a complete wash
<HazRPG> ah
<ali1234> i think we must have done exactly the same course
<HazRPG> holy cow!
<shauno> basically, it was me getting the school to pay for stuff I wanted to build but didn't have parts for at home
<HazRPG> my box of chips actually has a SID in it!
<HazRPG> I wondered what that chip was for
<HazRPG> ...hmmmmmmmm
<HazRPG> might have to crack open the old chip hardware boxes :D
<HazRPG> wow, this is an original 6581 too!
<HazRPG> it was a cadbury all-sorts chip buy I got off ebay that had these chips
<HazRPG> had bits of everything for Â£5
<shauno> I wonder if you can still buy a catweasel
<ali1234> the sid alone is prolly worth more than the rest :)
<HazRPG> some are too tiny for a breadboard so I never bothered with them
<HazRPG> I've got a stack of 556's in here too
<shauno> ah.  you can, but they're 90 quid.  nevermind that then
<ali1234> make your own with an avr
<ali1234> should be pretty easy with an arduino or somethng
<HazRPG> ali1234: see I didn't even know what a 6581 was at the time, because I was just going off what the electronics/physics book had in it
<shauno> yeah, they have a design for a sid-shield for arduino on their site
<ali1234> is it midi?
<ali1234> sid chips selling for Â£40 buy it now on ebay...
<shauno> not midi, the stuff on arduino.cc is hardware only
<ali1234> or 4 for Â£100
<shauno> how you decide to shove numbers down it's throat is up to the reader
<shauno> catweasel's fpga-based, which is why it's so damned expensive.  always wanted one, never got there
<ali1234> well, is there a usb-midi firmware for arduino?
<shauno> haven't seen it done over usb
<ali1234> i've got one for ez-usb
<shauno> http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/Midi   there's one to drive a midi jack
<shauno> but don't think it'd drive the usb that's on the arduino, because it's an ftdi, so rs232 in sheep's clothing.  you'd need a seperate usb stack in your code, and munge them together yourself
<shauno> there's gotta be 1001 ways to drive it tho.  it doesn't take much more than a dead budgie to impersonate a 30yo cpu
 * HazRPG starts googling the chips he has in this pile
<HazRPG> well apparently I have a MBA540 Tesla Oscillator
<HazRPG> apparently used it PAL TV's
<shauno> it's a shame http://www.creative.net.au/projects-sidavr.shtml has absolutely no documentation
<shauno> since those avr are cheap as owt
<shauno> here's a fun note from one project
<shauno> Warning to all people building stuff with the SID chip: the SIDÂ´s output is very delicate. I managed to zap 3 SID chips during development by simply inserting the cable from the MonoVoice into my ampÂ´s jack - the extremely short short circuit duting insertion can do that. So use an opamp buffer to save your SID !
<shauno> think it's time for one last blast thru my feedreader, then off to bed
<HazRPG> can't find anywhere what this TDA3611 chip is
<HazRPG> its by philips
<HazRPG> also has the numbers 33976 on a different line, and HSH9405 1 Y on another
<HazRPG> ooo, one of these is a Dual D-type flip-flop :)
<shauno> looking for chips always bugs me now
<shauno> almost every site claiming to have datasheets is a lying sack of .. err
<HazRPG> your telling me :/, was partly the reason I gave up on a lot of these a while back
<ali1234> i suspect that is a stepper motor controller from a old floppy drive or similar
<HazRPG> the philips?
<ali1234> yes
<HazRPG> from what I could dig up, it seems it could be from a hi-fi of some sort
<ali1234> tape or record motor maybe
<HazRPG> possibly
<shauno> blah.  feedreader was a washout
<ali1234> http://www.elemar.pl/pdf/TDA3611.pdf
<shauno> I can't wait until charlie sheen has had his 15 minutes and removes himself from my internets.
<ali1234> it's for cassette tape motor control
<shauno> HazRPG: if you can find any more than have 4 digits 65xx, get excited.  if not, get yourself to google and figure out how to best use that sid :)
<ali1234> i have a small box of 6502, 6508, 6551, 6552
<ali1234> not very interestng without an eeprom burner though
<shauno> goat claims to be compatible with hardsid and catweasel.  if you can find a cheap way to impersonate either of those, could have some real fun :D
<HazRPG> ali1234: nice find
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm...
<shauno> (pretty convinced catweasel could be Â£5-10 instead of Â£90 if it didn't need the fpga for floppy emulation)
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, how do you mean?
<shauno> well using either of those two, you'd have goat sending the commands down the wire to the sid, instead of synthesising a sid internally
<shauno> I think hardsid is usb, and catweasel is pci
<HazRPG> shauno: you mean construct something I can plug into the computer and get myself a pure (hard) SID?
<shauno> yes
<HazRPG> interesting
<shauno> you could drive it with a Â£2 microcontroller, but if you can emulate something that's already supported by goat, you've got the software side already sat infront of you
<MartijnVdS> http://www.kryoflux.com/
<MartijnVdS> if you want to read floppies :)
<shauno> heh, he's trying to drive a sid chip :)
<ali1234> i bet my ez-usb synth could drive it easily
<shauno> I only mention the catweasel because I know it has an unpopulated socket on the board to carry a sid, and is old enough that it's surprisingly widely supported
<HazRPG> I already have several floppy drives :P
<HazRPG> ah wait that's interesting
<HazRPG> sold out though apparently
<shauno> I keep meaning to pick up some of those TI launchpad boards 'n start futzing with microcontrollers again
<shauno> (purely because Â£2.50 for a dev board is insane, so I'm nosey)
<HazRPG> that just looks like gibberish to me lol
<HazRPG> care to explain for the non-informed such as myself please :)
<shauno> texas instruments; have a bunch of cheap-as-dirt microcontroller kits
<ali1234> Â£2.50???
<shauno> $4.30 usd
<shauno> so round about there, yeah
<ali1234> is it a proper USB solution?
<shauno> I actually have no idea :)
<shauno> http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/MSP430_LaunchPad_%28MSP-EXP430G2%29?DCMP
<ali1234> looks like it has sme crazy silicon on the board
<shauno> it's almost entirely unrelated to trying to drive a sid, just something I keep meaning to pick up
<ali1234> 2kB Flash, 128B RAM, 10 GPIO, 1x 16-bit timer, WDT, BOR, 1x USI (I2C/SPI), 8ch 10-bit ADC
<ali1234> lol that sucks
<ali1234> get an avr instead
<shauno> it's also Â£2.50 :)
<ali1234> same price range as AVRs
<ali1234> except AVR has tinyusb
<ali1234> and usb reprogramming
<ali1234> in circuit :)
<ali1234> http://www.circuitlake.com/avr-project-i2c-tiny-usb.html
<ali1234> here's the real link: http://www.harbaum.org/till/i2c_tiny_usb/index.shtml
<HazRPG> why are SID's so expensive?
<ali1234> because everyone loves them
<HazRPG> so it's the nostalgia price tag not the actual cost to make them?
<ali1234> they don't make them any more
<HazRPG> ali1234: one company must be...
<HazRPG> http://www.hardsid.com
<ali1234> they buy up old c64 and rip them out
<HazRPG> ah
<ali1234> the cost of the hardsid is the sid chips
<ali1234> and the software and design
<ali1234> it's probably just an AVR inside
<HazRPG> heh
<shauno> http://www.forskningsavd.se/wiki/index.php/SIDblaster
 * HazRPG grumbles
<shauno> an open clone of the hardsid
<HazRPG> according to that site the drivers are for XP/Vista/Win7
<ali1234> pic16f86
<HazRPG> the hardsid site I mean
<ali1234> components for that circuit should not run more than about Â£5
<ali1234> they use a yucky ftdi chip too
<shauno> http://www.forskningsavd.se/wiki/index.php/File:Sidblasterpsmt.jpg   that'd be pretty hot.  it'd make the whole thing about the size of a slightly overweight usb key
<HazRPG> ali1234: the SIDblaster? Does that mean its not a good alternative?
<shauno> (for size reference, the sid sits in the rows nearest the edge, so those are 0.1" pitch)
<ali1234> well it doesn't include an op amp to protect the sid
<ali1234> but it's just interface glue
<ali1234> there's no reason it should cost more than a few quid if you build it yourself
<HazRPG> ah crud, I knew it couldn't have been that much of a bargain for a proper SID chip: http://kevtris.org/Projects/sid/remarked_sids.html
<HazRPG> the one I've got is similar to the pictured 4 on the top of the page
<ali1234> still a sid apparently though
<ali1234> not just some random IC with same dimensions
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> I'm checking the MP3's
<HazRPG> wow, it really does make a difference
<HazRPG> youch! one sounds terrible!
<HazRPG> really does make a difference whether it can filter them or not
<HazRPG> think it would be possible to make a SID from scratch, exactly like how the originals were made
<ali1234> of course
<HazRPG> I should really read that SIDblaster page properly
<ali1234> you could run the digital part inside any microcontroller
<HazRPG> ali1234: if you just used breadboard parts, etc, would it be considerably big?
<ali1234> then you just have to replicate the analogue stuff
<ali1234> nah, wouldn't be that big
<HazRPG> I feel thick right now, too much info about one thing too fast, so does a SID actually have both analogue and digital parts (or at least manage both)?
 * HazRPG realises this is a stupid question
<ali1234> yes
<HazRPG> oh, so I'm not 100% stupid then xD
<ali1234> the filters which are blown in those fake sid are analogue
<HazRPG> ahhh
<ali1234> http://www.swinkels.tvtom.pl/swinsid/
<ali1234> it sounds different though, it's not intended to be an exact copy
<HazRPG> is that just because the schematics about the chip are just replicated, and still only available in the companies hard drives?
<HazRPG> (the original I mean)
<HazRPG> or why would they not produce the same 'sound'
<ali1234> yeah, nobody really knows exactly what is inside a sid
<HazRPG> if I'm just annoying you please do tell :)
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> you'd think that they'd publish it by now right?
<ali1234> "they" don't exist any more
<HazRPG> sure, but someone must still have a copy of the schematics somewhere
<HazRPG> although I guess it might just have been binned
<ali1234> yeah someone still has it somewhere probably
<HazRPG> guess the whole SID scene is just too niche a market though
<ali1234> the swinsid isn't trying to be faithful anyway
<HazRPG> yeah I'm just reading it now
<HazRPG> its designed to be better, sort of
<ali1234> it's just pin compatible
<HazRPG> ah!
<HazRPG> they apparently made a almost fully compatible version :)
<HazRPG> called the SwanSID88 or Micro SwanSID
<HazRPG> http://ilesj.wordpress.com/2010/11/21/micro-swinsid-an-avr-based-sid-replacement/
<HazRPG> it was linked in from the swansid site you sent earlier
<HazRPG> although its aimed towards the 8580
<HazRPG> ali1234, shauno: if either of you are interested, apparently this mp3 basically compares the SwanSID88 with a 8510 SID http://c64.ch/swin/lightforce.mp3
<HazRPG> left channel is the SwinSID and right is 8510 SID
<HazRPG> I just realised I've been playing the Swin a Swan...
 * HazRPG plugs in headphones
<MooDoo> hello all
<HazRPG> hi
<HazRPG> MooDoo: how's it going?
<MooDoo> HazRPG: not bad seeing as i'm at work
<MooDoo> HazRPG: what about your self?
<HazRPG> MooDoo: yeah not bad... have a sudden obsession with the c64
<MooDoo> HazRPG: blast from the past
<HazRPG> been trying to hunt down some SID 6581 chips for hours now
<HazRPG> preferably under Â£20
<HazRPG> but no such luck - or fakes
<HazRPG> MooDoo: indeed
<HazRPG> I wouldn't mind even finding a cheap c64 as-in and just finding a SID clone for a sound-card-pc-programming-type project
<HazRPG> but most c64 for sale have the SID chip stripped out
<HazRPG> which is pointless
<HazRPG> if I did get hold of a c64, I'd keep it in-tact thought - too much of a waste to pull out one chip from it
<MartijnVdS> you'd just write the sid files on the c64 :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: exactly :)
<HazRPG> but at ~$300 and possibility of a single most important chip taken out - is that much money worth nostalgia and music making as a hobby?
<HazRPG> see what I mean: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=160546999900
<HazRPG> that's just had ALL the chips stripped out
<HazRPG> I currently have a spare PS3 that's had the YLOD that my friend gave me, and I've still not done anything with that
<HazRPG> the Blu-ray drive appears to use an IDE ribbon cable, with 2-4 extra cables (so custom IDE ribbon) apparently for the eject and power buttons ... keep meaning to work on it to see if I can get it to work on a PC
<HazRPG> I'll shush now xD
<HazRPG> holy cow! I just found one on ebay which ends in 16mins
<HazRPG> 2 of them! both working!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Sniper! Sniper! :P
<HazRPG> Â£20 p&p
<HazRPG> Â£16 current bid price!
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<MartijnVdS> those ridiculous p&ps are a violation of Ebay ToS
<HazRPG> I doubt that's ridiculous
<MartijnVdS> (ebay takes a percentage of each sale, excluding p&p)
<HazRPG> it is 2 c64's and floppy drive, power brick, 6 games, etc
<HazRPG> that would be heavy to send
<MartijnVdS> hm, agreed
<HazRPG> anyone want one?
<HazRPG> looks like I'll be winning it :D
<HazRPG> I must be insane >_<
<MartijnVdS> </oldnews>
<HazRPG> me being insane?
<MartijnVdS> maybe :)
<HazRPG> I lost it years ago xD
<HazRPG> well seems someone had a bid on for about ~Â£17, so I'm sat at Â£18.05
<HazRPG> definitely nuts xD
<MartijnVdS> *reload* *reload*
<HazRPG> indeed!
<popey> Morning all
<HazRPG> 10mins left
<MartijnVdS> popeyman, g'morning
<HazRPG> popey: morning, haz being insane *waves*
<HazRPG> *reloads*
<AlanBell> morning all
<HazRPG> morning AlanBell
<MooDoo> morning AlanBell
<MooDoo> morning popey
<MartijnVdS> Ah, it's Alan Hour? :P
<popey> is that like Ubuntu Hour?
<HazRPG> seems that way
<AlanBell> it is always Alan O'clock in here
<MartijnVdS> popey: except with Alans
<HazRPG> would be odd if ali1234 suddenly came on too
<popey> hmmm
<MartijnVdS> popey: some people might say it's more like happy hour 8-)
<popey> I wonder how many Alans there will be at the beerex
<AlanBell> ali1234 is an Alastair
<HazRPG> a few? *he says reloading again*
<HazRPG> AlanBell: oh...
<HazRPG> don't know why I thought he was called Alan too :/
<AlanBell> there is an Alan Cocks who is on the mailing list and comes to various events
<HazRPG> 7m left, shaking like a leaf here!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: dude. calm down :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I'll try...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: deep breaths during reloads :)
<HazRPG> haha
 * HazRPG takes one deep breath
 * HazRPG breathes out
<MooDoo> keep it to yourself HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> MooDoo: heh, I was just finishing it, since otherwise it'd look like I just held my breath and didn't breathe out again
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: wow, with original tape thingy
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: guessing you see what I'm looking at?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: isn't hard to find tbh :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I won't overbid you, don't worry
<popey> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Commodore-64-x2-plus-extras-No-Reserve-/250780416380
<popey> ?
<HazRPG> considering it's the only one amongst games and other extras...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also, "sort by time ending (soonest first)
<HazRPG> also, someone outbid me >_<
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: outbid them!
<HazRPG> done
<MartijnVdS> yay snipers
<popey> 30 seconds!
<MartijnVdS> you just outbid yourself...
<popey> is that a konix speed king?
<KrimZon> I almost bid myself
<popey> ditto
<HazRPG> hurrah!
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: A Winrar is You!\
<KrimZon> can't restist the lure of computers from the 80s
<HazRPG> indeed :D
<MartijnVdS> http://www.chaobell.net/newgallery/d/517-1/winrar.jpg
<HazRPG> wow, its been ages since I used ebay... where's the pay button :S!?
<popey> in the email :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: \o/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you wait for the seller to contact you, usually
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I use to think sellers find that annoying, I use to just pay straight off the bat
<HazRPG> I actually found that from here: http://www.chipretro.com
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: sometimes shipping might be slightly more/less than indicated
<HazRPG> not from ebay, I searched ebay for hours with no luck until I found that site
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: good point
<MartijnVdS> ("Oh you live next door.. I could drop it off" -> 0 shipping \o/)
<HazRPG> shame this wasn't 2 weeks ago, I could have just picked it up whilst I was there
<HazRPG> I almost bought this originally: http://preview.tinyurl.com/5syvye4
<MartijnVdS> you bought tinyurl? :P
<MartijnVdS> I need to revive my dad's old Superbrain
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertec_Superbrain
<HazRPG> but realised it was a c64c - I'd rather have the original SID then the SID found in the 128
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ^ check out that link :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: haha, aces!
<HazRPG> almost on par to the MZ-700 I have (except with built-in screen)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: what could you do with it?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not a lot :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it runs 8080 ASM, MS-Basic and MS-Cobol
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so you could write programs on it
<MartijnVdS> it comes with "sort" written in 8080 asm in the manual :)
<HazRPG> 10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD"; 20 GOTO 10; RUN
<HazRPG> springs to mind
<MartijnVdS> that's basic
<MartijnVdS> not asm
<HazRPG> you said MS-Basic above though
<MartijnVdS> yes, but basic programs are interpreted (= slower, less mem available)
<HazRPG> oh yeah, I know :)
<HazRPG> errr...
<HazRPG> 0100 mov ax, <some numbers for character here?>
<HazRPG> something like that
<AlanBell> was it the C64 that had games on read only cartridges?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: c64 had both
<HazRPG> AlanBell: had a floppy drive too
<MartijnVdS> tapes, floppies, cartridges
<HazRPG> and tapes...
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: well spotted
<AlanBell> I had some friends with C64 and they just used them like a console, never did anything computerish with them at all
<HazRPG> AlanBell: commercial cartridges were read-only
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I plan to use mine fully :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: all 64k of it?
<HazRPG> might still try and make my own SID too, ali1234 mentioned you could make them for ~Â£5 based on the schematics shauno found
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ooooohh yeah!
<HazRPG> I missed out on the demoscene, soooo... might give it a shot, how hard could it be right?
<MartijnVdS> very
<HazRPG> might have been back then, the internet is a wonderful tool for learning though ;)
<HazRPG> I made my first C++ program thanks to the internet, and later refined it with books + uni
<daubers> daftykins: Apple go through phases of having servers and not having servers
<HazRPG> they do
<daubers> daftykins: and IT not having anything to do with Macs is standard in 99% of the institutions we've been into
<MartijnVdS> especially Apple servers
 * HazRPG nods
<daubers> Just shows that most IT departments are stuffed with people who don't really care that much really. It's not "What do people need to do their job" it's "What can we give people so we don't have to think"
<daubers> There are exceptions of course
<jonsaint> hi all. can anyone tell me how to extract a rar file?
<HazRPG> aww, just realised this hasn't got the good ol' floppy with it :(
<HazRPG> still a bargain :)
<daubers> jonsaint: unrar
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: you reckon I should just wait for the seller to contact me with shipping stuff?
<jonsaint> is that a programme?
<andylockran> Fatal error: Cannot redeclare class HordeActiveSyncBaseTables in /usr/share/php/data/Horde_ActiveSync/migration/1_horde_activesync_base_tables.php on line 63
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you could send a message asking him about it
<HazRPG> jonsaint: in ubuntu? it's a module for the built-in Archive Roller (extraction) application
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> that was an accident
<andylockran> apologies
<jonsaint> cheers il try that. thanks all
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: sorry, I confused myself there... for shipping? Or for floppy drive?
<HazRPG> andylockran: howdy dude
<andylockran> HazRPG: all good?
<HazRPG> andylockran: indeed, yourself?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I have a feeling he might pump the price up (if that's even possible)
<jonsaint> hi all (again). got the free rar extractor programme but i can see the programme but i cant seem to 'extract' it. any ideas?
<andylockran> HazRPG: in pain :)
<andylockran> Made a stonking tackle playing rugby yesterday
<KrisWillis> jonsaint: unrar x /path/to/file.rar
<KrisWillis> jonsaint: Or right-click -> extract
<andylockran> and unfortunately ended up with a successful tackle (put the bloke in touch) - but also knocked myself out.
<andylockran> which wasn't too clever.. so this morning I'm pretty sore.
<HazRPG> andylockran: ouch dude
<jonsaint> tried to extract but when i check the folder its extracted to, nothing is there
<cbx333> hey all
<andylockran> HazRPG: I enjoyed it at least: p
<HazRPG> andylockran: that's the main thing :D
<HazRPG> jonsaint: hmm, what happens when you double-click on it? Could be possibly password protected
<HazRPG> or could possibly be a corrupt file
<jonsaint> dunno, il try it
<jonsaint> when i righ click and 'extract' the bar goes across and it tells me its done then i got a choice of open, view file or close but when i click view file, nothing is there. ive tried it on a few rar files and all the same
<cbx333> jonsaint, does doing it on the command line yield anything?
<HazRPG> jonsaint: which package did you download?
<cbx333> HazRPG, do you think it makes sense to keep the after hours sections mid flow with the rest of the book?  to try to get people to read it....or I did also consider putting them all at the end
<jonsaint> its a game for my sons ds
<cbx333> so people don't have to wade throug ha few pages to get to the next chapter
<jonsaint> cbx333, i dont know how to use comm line, im fairly new to ubuntu
<HazRPG> cbx333: hmm..
<cbx333> jonsaint, ahh ok
<HazRPG> cbx333: depends how long your planning on writing the after hours section
<cbx333> yeh
<cbx333> well the first one is 1800 words :)
<cbx333> but i suspect the others to be shorter
<HazRPG> if they're merely short paragraphs and an exercise, you could put them mid flow, but if they're long(ish), might be best saying "see after hours section x, y" or something and just have them at the end
<jonsaint> i really dont fancy going back to that other o/s because i cant get rar to work. i just got used to this o/s and its one i like. :-(
<HazRPG> jonsaint: I have 7zip installed (in Ubuntu Software Centre), and that handles the rar files
<HazRPG> jonsaint: might be worth uninstalling RAR and installing 7zip
<jonsaint> i got 7zip but i cant seem to find it lol
<HazRPG> if you search for 7zip, you'll see both listed (it'll save the extra typing and clicking ;))
<HazRPG> jonsaint: ok, do this... place the rar onto the destkop, open up terminal (Applications->Accessories->Terminal)
<jonsaint> ok 1 sec haz
<jonsaint> ok. got terminal
<HazRPG> jonsaint: type in: unrar x ~/Desktop/filename.rar
<HazRPG> change only filename.rar
<HazRPG> to whatever its called
<jonsaint> it says i need unrar
<HazRPG> I'm guessing you installed rar
<jonsaint> i have now installed unrar
<HazRPG> just now?
<jonsaint> yes. let me try again
<HazRPG> cool
<HazRPG> jonsaint: any joy?
<jonsaint> hazrpg, what does it mean by 'x' ~/??
<HazRPG> x = extract command
<HazRPG> ~/ means "your home directory"
<cbx333> HazRPG, they were goign to be at the end of the "week" anyway
<jonsaint> unrar: invalid archive 'x': Bad address
<cbx333> but i was thinking baout putting them all at the end of the book
<HazRPG> basically ~/ is the same as typing /home/<your-username>
<cbx333> what does file ~/Desktop/filename.rar show
<cbx333> what does "file ~/Desktop/filename.rar" show
<cbx333> don't put the quotes obviously :)
<jonsaint> no such file or directory
<HazRPG> btw, when you do unrar you don't type in sudo
<cbx333> where filename.rar is the name of the file on your desktop
<HazRPG> jonsaint: did you move the file to the desktop?
<HazRPG> jonsaint: actually wait a sec
<HazRPG> leave terminal open
<HazRPG> you said you installed unrar
<jonsaint> yes i did. i did a click drag
<cbx333> sorry - hopped in half way :)
<jonsaint> yes
<HazRPG> try the right-click
<HazRPG> since you've now got unrar, it should just work :)
<jonsaint> i tried right clicking it hazrpg and clicked extract. i choose the folder and clicked extract. i saw the bar go up and it said it was done but when i went to the folder, it was empty
<HazRPG> jonsaint: sorry, my bad
<HazRPG> jonsaint: erm, okay
<HazRPG> Ubuntu Software Manager -> search for "Archive Manager"
<HazRPG> but without quotes
<jonsaint> it says its already installed
<HazRPG> click more info
<HazRPG> you'll see a list of add-ons
<HazRPG> might have to scroll down to see that list
<HazRPG> have a look and see if "Non-free rar module for p7zip (p7zip-rar)" is ticked - if not tick it and apply
<jonsaint> i cant see nothing about add ons, all it tells me about is what it does
<HazRPG> might also be worth grabbing "ACE" and "Unarchiver for .rar files (non-free version)" as well since these are most common files on the internet too
<HazRPG> jonsaint: what version of ubuntu you rolling with?
<jonsaint> the latest one
<HazRPG> hmm, should show a list of addons
<HazRPG> that's strange
<HazRPG> alright, back to terminal (was trying to get the easier way first)
<jonsaint> i got archive manager on the top which is ticked, when i click 'info' it tells me about the product and thats all it says
<andylockran> just cleared out 250GB of error logs from our development server ;)
<HazRPG> type in: sudo apt-get install p7zip-rar unrar unace lzma
<HazRPG> jonsaint: yeah it should show a list of addons under that, but try that command above
<HazRPG> and see if the right-click will let you extract it
<jonsaint> ok. did that. a boat load of stuff came up
<HazRPG> jonsaint: yeah, its because its installing 4 addons (for common internet archive files)
<jonsaint> it worked!
<HazRPG> jonsaint: sorted ;)
<cbx333> sweet
<HazRPG> jonsaint: ok one last thing I want ya to check
<jonsaint> i just clicked extract and its finally gone into the folder!
<HazRPG> jonsaint: because it should have shown a list of addons
<HazRPG> unless your not fussed about it
<jonsaint> ok, what do i need to do
<HazRPG> System -> Administrator -> Update Manager
<HazRPG> then click settings
<HazRPG> will ask for password
<HazRPG> and then click on Ubuntu Software tab
<HazRPG> what have you got ticked there?
<jonsaint> just the 2 top ones and check for updates daily
<HazRPG> jonsaint: wrong tab
<HazRPG> click the "Ubuntu Software" tab
<jonsaint> all ticked apart from 'source code'
<HazRPG> Other software tab?
<jonsaint> none
<HazRPG> should have Canonical Partners and Canonical Partners (Source Code) ticked
<HazRPG> and if you want the Independent and Independent (source code) <== these are optional, but does add a few more apps in your list
<jonsaint> so i tick those with the http:// ??
<HazRPG> how many have you got in there?
<HazRPG> you'll only need "Canonical Partners", "Canonical Partners (Source Code)", "Independent", "Independent (Source Code)"
<jonsaint> 5 in total. cd with ubuntu 9.10, unsupported updates, unsupported updates (source code) and those iother 2 with the http:// bit
<HazRPG> hang on
<brobostigon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/576420/ ound another bug in natty, as it causes graphics to freeze on my eeepc and a massive screen wide graphical artifact.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: do you ever use the Ubuntu Software Centre?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: no,
<HazRPG> jonsaint: do the ones with http say something like "http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu maverick partner"
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah never mind, its just jon doesn't seem to have the "addons" section under each software info for some reason
<brobostigon> HazRPG: no idea, sorry, oh, ok.
<jonsaint> hazrpg, it is simlar, but mine says ubuntu karmic
<HazRPG> jonsaint: ah did you do an upgrade from 10.04 to 10.10?
<jonsaint> how do i find out what version im on now
<HazRPG> system -> about ubuntu (might take a while to load)
<jonsaint> mine says im using 10.04
<HazRPG> that's the easiest way without terminal
<brobostigon> lsb_realease -a
<brobostigon> lsb_release -a
<HazRPG> brobostigon: its lsb_release -a
<HazRPG> oh
<HazRPG> nvm
<HazRPG> you already corrected
<HazRPG> jonsaint: hmm, the addons might not be in 10.04 then
<HazRPG> which kinda sucks
 * brobostigon goes to chatwith the guys over in #ubuntu+1 for some bug fixin,
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Game of no thrones - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/03/06/game-of-no-thrones
<HazRPG> jonsaint: yeah, seems the addon section isn't in yet - sorry I wasted your time :(
<HazRPG> for 10.04 I mean
<jonsaint> its ok hazrpg
<jonsaint> by the way, how the hell do you get the chat up in red?
<HazRPG> jonsaint: but, glad we got the unrar working :)
<HazRPG> oh, you mean when we type your name?
<jonsaint> yes
<HazRPG> you have to make sure you type the name exactly the same was as they've spelled it (with caps and lower)
<HazRPG> best way is to start typing their name, and hit tab
<HazRPG> it should auto complete their name
<jonsaint> HazRPG,  like this
<HazRPG> if there are several people with similar characters as what you typed, add another letter in and try tab again :)
<jonsaint> did that work then?
<HazRPG> jonsaint: its great for grabbing attention of the person you want to talk to, specially when your helping someone (lets them know you've replied)
<HazRPG> jonsaint: it did :)
<jonsaint> thanks hazrpg. slowly but surely im getting used to ubuntu :-)
<HazRPG> did you try the tab method?
<jonsaint> yes. thats how i got your name up. a brilliant idea!
<HazRPG> it is, isn't it :D
<HazRPG> and no problem, ubuntu's easy when you know what your doing (much like anything really)
<jonsaint> this 10.04, is that the latest one i got then
<HazRPG> 10.04 is the latest Long Term Support version
<HazRPG> or LTS for short
<HazRPG> it'll be the one that gets service packs for the next 4 years I think it is
<HazRPG> although ubuntu calls them just regular updates (or partial upgrades)
<jonsaint> ah ok. just curious thats all because normally i see something in the updates about when a new one comes out and wasnt sure if i had the latest one
<HazRPG> jonsaint: 10.10 is the latest version
<HazRPG> I don't think 10.04 will let you know about 10.10 though
<HazRPG> unless you tell it to
<jonsaint> is that the stable one?
<HazRPG> both 10.10 and 10.04 are stable
<HazRPG> 10.04 will just get supported longer)
<jonsaint> so where do i find this 10.10? and will it just update or do i need fresh install?
<HazRPG> people with 10.10 will soon have to update to 11.04 when it comes out in april
<HazRPG> jonsaint: have you just recently installed it?
<jonsaint> installed which?
<HazRPG> ubuntu I mean, have you just recently installed ubuntu?
<jonsaint> HazRPG, a few months now, i got 9 on cd so i installed that and then updated to 10.04
<HazRPG> jonsaint: oh, and to answer you question, you'll have to set it to grab the "normal releases" as an update option
<HazRPG> instead of "Long term support releases only"
<jonsaint> just trying that now
<jonsaint> yes i can see it now
<HazRPG> if you prefer having the latest and greatest, then I'll show you how you can set it to update and go through that with you, but if you don't mind it the way it is, then that's fine - your call
<jonsaint> yeah! if its suitable for novices like me, il take anything lol
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/730099    natty bug number 3 filed.
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 730099 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i915gm] GPU lockup 0c40b170 (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [Undecided,New]
<HazRPG> obviously like any upgrade you do fall risk to data loss (or stuff not working) - this isn't to scare you, its just what can happen (even on windows)
<brobostigon> backup, and test first from a live media.
<jonsaint> willing to take the risk hazrpg if it keeps the system up to date
<HazRPG> but since you've upgrade from 9 to 10.04 just fine, it should be ok
<brobostigon> jonsaint: i would recommed a thourough upgrade,before you do,
<HazRPG> jonsaint: as brobostigon mentioned, you could test from a LiveCD of 10.10 to see if it'll work first - also backup if needs be
<HazRPG> again, its not to scare you... its just these things can happen
<jonsaint> so its recommended i download 10.10 and burn to cd rather than upgrade?
<brobostigon> always do a backup, if there is even a small risk of loosing something importent.
<HazRPG> jonsaint: no, you can upgrade from the CD too though
<brobostigon> jonsaint: because then you cantest to see if it works properly onyour hw or not.
<jonsaint> il do the upgrade now, all my important stuff is backed on a second drive
<brobostigon> HazRPG: you can only do that with the alternate cd, as that contains proper .deb files.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, see I keep forgetting I only ever download the alt cd
<brobostigon> HazRPG: iprefer the alternate cd aswell.myself.
<jonsaint> right, im outta here. going to try the update. if im not back in a few hours, send the search party lol
<HazRPG> jonsaint: sure no problem :)
<jonsaint> see ya
<HazRPG> hope ya do come back :)
<jonsaint> so do i!
<HazRPG> jonsaint: good luck, and enjoy :)
<jonsaint> thanks. bye.
<HazRPG> also, send you lad's game to his device first before ya do ;)
<jonsaint> i will do
<HazRPG> brobostigon: seems he already had his mind set on grabbing it ^^
<brobostigon> HazRPG: maybe, yes.
<brobostigon> ok,brb,need some lunch and coffee
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I always make sure to warn people though, since I fell for the problem of upgrading and losing data once before
<brobostigon> HazRPG: same here, and many other assorted errors, and problems.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I thought at the time "its linux, it'll be perfectly fine! Bound to be better than windows"
<brobostigon> HazRPG: still need toplaysafe though,
<HazRPG> back in the old 6.06 days
<HazRPG> brobostigon: this is true
<HazRPG> backing up, etc always a good idea in general
<brobostigon> ok,brb, lunchings and coffee.
<HazRPG> no problem, enjoy
<scoundrel50> I have a bit of a problem, it was I had a load of stuff appear in the terminal when updating, so I posted to the e-mail group, and was advised to delete /var/lub/status/ which i did. I was then told to run sudo apt-get update and it would be fixed. Rab that, then went to look in the Update Manager to find that it has about 140 updates. Tried to run it and got this error. nstallArchives() failed: warning, in file '/var/lib/dpkg/available' ne
<scoundrel50> ar line 46354 package 'virtualbox-3.0':
<scoundrel50> error in Version string '3.0.14-58977_Ubuntu_karmic': invalid character in revision number
<scoundrel50> warning, in file '/var/lib/dpkg/available' near line 48216 package 'virtualbox-2.2':
<scoundrel50>  error in Version string '2.2.4-47978_Ubuntu_jaunty': invalid character in revision number
<scoundrel50> ho do I get rid of the error, so i can update again. As it is I cant update anymore.
<scoundrel50> /var/lib/dpkg/status, sorry
<scoundrel50> can somebody please help?
 * AlanBell reads the emails
<bigcalm> What a beautiful sunny day :)
<bigcalm> Horay for seasons
<brobostigon> kinda cloudy here,but partially sunny.
<HazRPG> sunny here
<bigcalm> Oh it's be overcast if not for the small gaps.
 * brobostigon thinks he might give the pub  visit, and sit in the sun.
 * AlanBell points out an informal quiz that is happening in #ubuntu-trivia
<issyl0> AlanBell: oh :-)
<AlanBell> take on the trivia powers of popey and Pendulum
 * MartijnVdS just finished his first 20km run
 * AlanBell has past brobostigon in #ubuntu-trivia
<AlanBell> welcome back czajkowski
<czajkowski> thanks
 * MooDoo hugs czajkowski i missed you :)
<czajkowski> lol
<MooDoo> czajkowski: no need to laugh, was being nice for a change....POKE!!
<HazRPG> czajkowski: welcome back :)
 * HazRPG waves to czajkowski
<MartijnVdS> \o cz<tab>
<bigcalm> That was fun, if distracting
<AlanBell> http://ryanak.ca/trivia.html
<AlanBell> I *will* get into that top 10
<MartijnVdS>  A challenge! :)
<bigcalm> Exporting a wordpress.com site into a client hosted wordpress.org instance is proving tricky
<bigcalm> It would seem that images can be resized on the fly with ?w=300 for instance. But not sure how to replicate this in the new site
<bigcalm> http://wordpress.org/support/topic/on-the-fly-image-resize-based-on-addressquerystring # this problem, but still no closer to an answer
<AlanBell> bigcalm: I would think there is a plugin somewhere to do that
<AlanBell> but yeah, I had noticed that wordpress.com has some interesting features I hadn't seen before
<Azelphur> haha, has anyone noticed youtube has nudity on the front page atm?
<Azelphur> At least it does for me :p
<penguin42> Azelphur: It doesn't for me at the moment, but I suspect I know the one you mean - one of the right hand box ads made me double take yesterday
<Azelphur> haha yea probably
<Azelphur> NSFW screenshot, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/March%202010/2011-03-06-163349_1908x1167_scrot.png
<Azelphur> Wonder why they are allowing that
<popey> dude
<HazRPG> dude!
<speedxco1e> Hi all, I got this problem, with verbosity and fsck at boot time. My system is either checking a large (very quite) sata disk, or it's frozen.
<Azelphur> ?
<HazRPG> man I can't wait for my c64's to arrive xD!
<speedxco1e> I need to find out what fsck is doing at boot time.
<HazRPG> found out one of my friends owns a c64 and I never knew!
<mgdm> HazRPG: you've got real ones on the way?
<HazRPG> mgdm: yup :D
<HazRPG> mgdm: sniped from ebay :)
<mgdm> I have 3 at home
<mgdm> I should dig one or more out
<HazRPG> mgdm: no way!
<HazRPG> :D
<HazRPG> mgdm: what accessories do you have for it?
<mgdm> 1541, datasettes, some joysticks
<HazRPG> nice :)
<HazRPG> it uses the old game port doesn't it?
 * HazRPG should have some extra joysticks at home that he had for his atari somewhere
<HazRPG> mgdm: managed to get 2 c64's for Â£40 :)
<HazRPG> profit!
<popey> HazRPG: the old 9 pin joystick connector, yeah
<HazRPG> popey: :)
<popey> i used to have a konix speed king thats in the auction you won
<HazRPG> see I had some regular atari ones, but when one of them broke I bought a fair of flight-sim styled ones
<HazRPG> with rubber suctions at the bottom
<mgdm> HazRPG: nice - and aye, 9-pin D-subs, Megadrive controllers work on it
<HazRPG> popey: the konix does look shiny though
<HazRPG> mgdm: :D
<HazRPG> mgdm: I was looking at these last night/this morning, looks interesting ( http://home.ica.net/~leifb/commodore/ethernet.html )
<HazRPG> not sure what good it would do now, but I also found out an old, but popular, BBS is still active
<penguin42> HazRPG: Doesn't a commy have a serial interface you could run ppp or ka9q over?
<mgdm> I did look at getting a MIDI attachment for the C64 once, but I never did in the end
<HazRPG> penguin42: I think it does
<HazRPG> penguin42: I think that's how the original c64 modems connected in to them
<mgdm> I doubt it ever used PPP
<mgdm> or IP in general, actually
<mgdm> BBSes would be just using a straight serial channel (whatever the correct term for it is)
<penguin42> mgdm: I'd be surprised if some people hadn't run IP over them for the hell of it
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: SLIP more likely, in ye olde days
<mgdm> penguin42: well, yeah; but they'd be the exception rather than the rule ;)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SLIP
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Ah yeh, haven't come across that for a LONG time
<bigcalm> Time for hockey!
<HazRPG> wow, you can run the c64 as a real-time streaming audio server xD
<HazRPG> using the various different ethernet adapters peopled made
<HazRPG> audio is sampled at 2000 Hz though
<popey> great joystick /98
<popey> bah
<HazRPG>  /98?
<AlanBell> the dragon 32 had analog joysticks
<penguin42> BBC B also had analog joystick port
<AlanBell> friend of mine had one of them and we took it apart, it just reported a number from -64 to 64 based on the resistance of a slider on some metal
<HazRPG> hehe
<AlanBell> so we ended up plugging in all sorts of things we could wire up in such a way that they presented a resistance
<mgdm> The C64 could tolerate an analogue joystick on port 1
<mgdm> port 2 (the most commonly used one) is just digital, though
<mgdm> and even if you *can* get an analogue joystick on there, it'd just be treated digitally anyway in 99.9% of games, so...
 * HazRPG currently trying to access a web page served on a c64
<HazRPG> its taking its time, but is to be expected :P
<Synth_sam> Does someone have to press play on tape?
<HazRPG> Synth_sam: its already loaded in memory
<Synth_sam> HazRPG: Are you managing the c64 server yourself?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] HowTo: Gtk.IconView with One Row - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/howto-gtk-iconview-with-one-row/
<HazRPG> a packet will arrive at the c64's ethernet port, parsed out (which obviously uses memory and cpu cycles) and sents the data back... but well too many people accessing it at once, and the RAM fills up quick
<HazRPG> Synth_sam: no, it's the original creator of "The Final Ethernet Cartridge" that hackers made
<HazRPG> guessing the c64 still gets web traffic, cos it timed out
<Synth_sam> HazRPG: I was going to say,  it's a long time since I've seen a c64, but surely it didn't have ethernet
<HazRPG> heh, it had a modem though ;)
<HazRPG> 16kbps if I recall from the website I saw last night
<Synth_sam> 14.4k?
<Synth_sam> lol
<HazRPG> sorry 14.4k
<Synth_sam> speedy
<HazRPG> I think this thing still gets WAY too much traffic, still timing out
<HazRPG> either that, or its not actually turned on
<HazRPG> however it does look like its thinking a fair bit before it times out
<HazRPG> hmm, if anyone gets any joy from connected to this: http://tfe.c64.org/
<HazRPG> take a screenshot please (I will be :))
<HazRPG> if it ever gets through
<HazRPG> I hope they've got a robots.txt
<Synth_sam> Sending request...
<Synth_sam> doesn't respond to ping
<Myrtti> I can haz a new webcam and it's pink â¥
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: specs! :)
<Myrtti> Logitech HD C270
<MartijnVdS> does it work with Linux? :)
<Myrtti> yup
<Myrtti> I'm not sure if the microphone does
<Myrtti> but I didn't buy it for the microphone anyway, so I don't care
<MartijnVdS> it should, you have to enable it in the audio settings
<Myrtti> it sure beats my old webcam
<Synth_sam> HazRPG: I think that the c64 must not be up, it was put online in 2002, and it doesn't respond to ping, nmap reveals no open ports
<HazRPG> Synth_sam: I doubt it'll respond to most of that anyway, since it is just a hacked up job
<HazRPG> gotta remember the ram is somewhat limited
<Synth_sam> suppose
<HazRPG> if the site plain just didn't exist, it'd just time out almost instantly - or one would assume anyways
<Synth_sam> the NMAP scan I just performed might be considered DoS considering the size of the RAM on the c64
<Synth_sam> The last "news" from that website is from September 2003
<Synth_sam> right, gotta dash, time to watch "Unknown"
<cbx33> boo
<mgdm> eek!
<cbx33> howz it going peeps
<HazRPG> cbx33: not bad, how's you?
<cbx33> yeh good good
<scoundrel50> test
<DJones> Correct
 * DJones wonders at the mailing list and the last few days postings
 * HazRPG really likes this internet radio station I found a week ago :)
<HazRPG> SLAY Radio its called :)
<cbx33> and I'm back :)
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: hello
<HazRPG> haha c64 anyone: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/COMMODORE-C64-CONSOLE-/280636808011?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item415741db4b#ht_500wt_1156
<HazRPG> got 6mins
<HazRPG> Â£15
<HazRPG> no bidders so far
<HazRPG> could be because the desc. is so vague
<HazRPG> also, pickup only
<HazRPG> I was only looking for a cable
 * DJones considers it, but only if HazRPG can port ubuntu to it before the bidding closes
<HazRPG> now I find hundreds of these things after I couldn't find a single one
<DJones> It may need to be a minimal install though
<HazRPG> DJones: haha that would be a hefty task!
<HazRPG> LNG not good enough?
<HazRPG> http://lng.sourceforge.net/
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: so you have installed virtualbox from virtualbox.org or sun or oracle, and you have been upgrading that machine since Karmic right?
<scoundrel50> AlanBell: Hi, to my knowledge, I have never installed Virtualbox, but I have been upgrading since Karmic yes......
<AlanBell> ok, lets see if you have virtualbox installed
<AlanBell> in a terminal window type "Vir" then press tab
<scoundrel50> If I go into Synaptic nothing is ticked there to say I have it installed
<AlanBell> if it autocompletes VirtualBox then you have it
<scoundrel50> ok, done that
<scoundrel50> thank you
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: so it is installed?
<scoundrel50> oh, that is strange, it autocompleted
<scoundrel50> yet in Synaptic it doesnt show anything
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> I think you have installed it not from the repositories
<AlanBell> there is a version of it in the Ubuntu repositories and you can get a slightly different version from virtualbox.org
<AlanBell> which was then bought by sun
<AlanBell> which was then bought by Oracle
<scoundrel50> Oh ok, I dont remember doing that though. Can I uninstal it?
<scoundrel50> How do I uninstal it?
<AlanBell> just checking something
<scoundrel50> ok, thank you.
<AlanBell> if you do "dpkg --status virtualbox" it should tell you a page of stuff about what version is installed
<AlanBell> or it might give some kind of error
<AlanBell> can you pastebin the output of it please (if it looks like lots of stuff)
<scoundrel50> ok, one sec, will do that now
<scoundrel50> ok, about 10 lines of errors, will open pastebin and post now
<scoundrel50> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/576578/
<scoundrel50> that is odd, says its not installed
<AlanBell> try dpkg --status virtualbox-3.0
<scoundrel50> ok,
<AlanBell> I have the version from the repos, which is virtualbox-ose, here is my output http://paste.ubuntu.com/576580/
 * AlanBell goes to put kids to bed, back in a bit
<scoundrel50> ok, now I'm getting those errors I first e-mailed about this mornign, back again.
<scoundrel50> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/576582/ these error messages were what starting the e-mails this morning.
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: perfect, you have virtualbox-3.0 installed, and it does have that odd version number
<AlanBell> anyone else here got the non-free virtualbox installed to compare?
<scoundrel50> can it be uninstalled? I dont use it.
<DJones> AlanBell: I haven't got any virtualbox installed, so if you let me know which one you want installing, I'll do that & let you know
<AlanBell> ok, lets try dpkg -r virtualbox-3.0
<AlanBell> which should attempt to remove it
<scoundrel50> ok
<AlanBell> whether that cleans up the file with the dodgy version number in it I am less sure
<AlanBell> can you also try dpkg --status virtualbox-2.2
<scoundrel50> I think its going to have a problem uninstalling it, it gave all those errors agains, and now has stalled in the uninstall process
<scoundrel50> its got jaunty and karmic errors
<shauno> I gather it's complaining about using ~ in the version number?
<AlanBell> sudo dpkg -r virtualbox-3.0
<scoundrel50> I added the sudo already
<AlanBell> for removing a package you will need sudo, just getting status doesn't
<AlanBell> I see no ~ shauno
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: lets see the errors you are getting then
<scoundrel50> something is happening, my processor is wroking overtime, the yellow light is flashing
<scoundrel50> ok, will just pastebin them now
<scoundrel50> something is happening because its using up my cpuy, and Google Chrome is having problems opening a tab, one sec, still waiting
<shauno> AlanBell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/576589/   they appear to be using ~ in the version number, which isn't being reflected in his status.  I'm curious if that's what's throwing dpkg off
<gr33npeace> scoundrel50: what do you see with the following command?
<gr33npeace> scoundrel50:   grep -i virtualbox /var/lib/dpkg/status
<scoundrel50> ok, more stuff happened, have to do another pastebin, finished the uninstall, but I dont think it worked, one sec
<gr33npeace> scoundrel50: sorry mate, think I missed some of the conversation there
<shauno> gr33npeace: easily missed, the first half of it is on the ubuntu-uk mailing list, so there's lots of context missing wherever you look :)
<AlanBell> I was going to suggest as the next interesting thing: grep -n virtualbox /var/lib/dpkg/status
<scoundrel50> there is the new pastebin http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/576594/ finished the process but not sure it uninstlled vb
<gr33npeace> shauno: ah!! ok  :) ... where are we now?  is it easy enough to uninstall the oracle version from the system?
<scoundrel50> sorry it took so long
<AlanBell> gr33npeace: last paste was dpkg -r virtualbox-3.0
<scoundrel50> do you want me to try the other command you just posted?
<scoundrel50> the grep command
<gr33npeace> that will just search in the file for the text
<gr33npeace> so it won't hurt!
<scoundrel50> oh, ok, did that remove command work? It said something about rebooting, should I try a reboot?
<AlanBell> I think it worked (as in uninstalled it)
<AlanBell> however I don't think that fixed the actual problem (possibly bad version numbers in /var/lib/dpkg/status)
<AlanBell> can you try: sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<scoundrel50> just entered the grep command, will post pastebin now
<gr33npeace> scoundrel50: don't think you need to reboot... but to confirm uninstallation you can start typing "Virt"  and then hit tab to see if it autocompletes (as before)
<scoundrel50> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/576595/ that is the grep command
<scoundrel50> results sorry
<scoundrel50> just tried the Virt and tab, and it didnt autocomplete
<scoundrel50> just trying the install sudo apt-get install pastebinit and I get all the errors still
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: I think it will still work, they are just warnings rather than actual errors
<gr33npeace> AlanBell: do you think it's worth removing the offending entries in the status or file... or leaving it well alone?
<scoundrel50> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/576596/ from the install sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<scoundrel50> all those errors I'm gettingt
<AlanBell> yeah, they are warnings, it did install
<gr33npeace> looks ok...
<AlanBell> a warning is something saying "this looks odd, but I am going to carry on anyway"
<scoundrel50> so I dont really need to worry about the errors then?
<scoundrel50> ok,
<AlanBell> an error is "this is bad, I am stopping now"
<scoundrel50> I really appreciate the help.
<scoundrel50> What was the pastebinit install?
<AlanBell> and yeah, it is warning about an error on a line which does sound daft
<AlanBell> pastebinit allows you to easily put the output of a command on pastebin
<AlanBell> one sec and I will give you another command to try
<scoundrel50> oh, so what do I do with it now? I have no idea, sorry, not heard of it before, just use the ubuntu pastebin
<AlanBell> sed -n '43200,43400p' /var/lib/dpkg/status|pastebinit
<AlanBell> that will show us the interesting portion of the status file
<AlanBell> it will give you a pastebin URL to put in here
<popey> AlanBell: is there not merit in just yanking the offending lines?
<scoundrel50> http://pastebin.com/e4m0fK3x
<AlanBell> popey: yes, I just want to see what I am yanking
<scoundrel50> that was fast
<AlanBell> ok, so in that paste, lines 55 to 78 are the details about virtualbox-3.0
<speedxco1e> Ext3 or Ext4 for a 80gb ssd raid1? Trying to figure out the best conf.
<gr33npeace> AlanBell: looks like it's the underscore in the Version line that it doesn't like... mine just has hyphens
<AlanBell> and lines 62 and 63 correspond to 43261 and 43262
<popey> looks like debian bug 75088
<lubotu3> Debian bug 75088 in dpkg "dpkg: parse error in file /var/lib/dpkg/status" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/75088
<AlanBell> not sure whether it is best to remove the whole block, or just tinker with the version numbers
<popey> er, wrong bug
<popey> AlanBell: you can happily remove entire package stanzas
<popey> I have fiddled in this way before
<AlanBell> ok, is there a nice way of doing it or just with nano?
<popey> just a text editor
<popey> human search/cut
<popey> its not hard, even for a novice
<popey> or you could get the person to post the entire file, you edit it, paste it back
<AlanBell> ok, scoundrel50 can you type sudo nano /var/lib/dpkg/status
<scoundrel50> ok
<AlanBell> then ctrl+w (which finds where stuff is)
<AlanBell> and type virtualbox-3.0
<AlanBell> which should jump you down to that bit of the file
<scoundrel50> sorry, accidently logged off somehow
<popey> (do we have a backup of that file)?
<scoundrel50> I dont have a back up no
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: ok, no problem
<AlanBell> cp /var/lib/dpkg/status ~/statusbackup
<Azelphur> yay, my pc is being fun \o/
<Azelphur> it's increased it's "Lets randomly freeze intensity to once every minute or two :p"
<scoundrel50> ok, just checking to see if it backed up, one sec
<Azelphur> wish I could figure out how to debug this X problem and get a bug report up, it just spikes to 100% and freezes
<Azelphur> and I have to wait until it decides to carry on \o/
<scoundrel50> ok, it has status and old status in there, should that be right?
<Azelphur> I might expect this behaviour if I was on a 486 or something, but I'm on a i7 950 :x
<daubers> Evening
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: what has? your home directory?
<gr33npeace> scoundrel50: depends on what you've been up to!!  "status" could be an old file  :)
<scoundrel50> cp /var/lib/dpkg/status ~/statusbackup I entered that, and looked in the directory and that is all I have in there,
 * brobostigon returns
<gr33npeace> scoundrel50: can you type  "pwd" so  we can see where you are?
<popey>  ~/ is your home directory
<popey> ~/statusbackup is a file in your home directory
<scoundrel50> I'm in the home directory
<scoundrel50> should I cd to the dpkg directory?
<popey> just look for ~/statusbackup in your home directory
<popey> not in /var/lib/dpkg
<popey> because the command you typed copies it to home
<AlanBell> ~ is a shortcut for /home/scoundrel50  (or whatever your username is)
<scoundrel50> found the backup file in home directory, just did ls and it showed it to me
<AlanBell> ok, so if you have a nice comfortable backup then lets edit the real file
<scoundrel50> ok
<AlanBell> sudo nano /var/lib/dpkg/status
<AlanBell> then ctrl+w virtualbox-3.0
<AlanBell> that should take you to the bit that is line 55 of http://pastebin.com/e4m0fK3x
<Azelphur> dunno what I'm gonna do about this freeze bug
<Azelphur> probably have to try some different distros or something :/
<Azelphur> my computer is completely unusable now
<AlanBell> Azelphur: tried in -kernel?
<Azelphur> -kernel for an X bug?
<scoundrel50> ooh, that is interesting
<scoundrel50> I think I have that now
<scoundrel50> what next
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: great
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: ctrl+k removes a line
<scoundrel50> I can see Virtual Box in the terminal
<scoundrel50> ok
<scoundrel50> which lines to remove
<AlanBell> you need to nuke everything from "Package: virtualbox-3.0" to "Python-Version: >= 2.4" (just before the next blank line)
<AlanBell> so the equivalent to lines 55 to 78 on the pastebin
<scoundrel50> ok, but I dont have line numbners in the Terminal
<scoundrel50> so how to nuke them, do you have to highlight, or what?
<AlanBell> ctrl+c will tell you what line you are on
<AlanBell> go down to Version: 3.0.14-58977_Ubuntu_karmic and press ctrl+c
<popey> just press ctrl+k anywhere on a line will nuke that one line
<AlanBell> that should be the line that corresponds to the warning message
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: have a look round first, you should see that each package has a block of text, the one after virtualbox is Package: xserver-xorg-input-mouse
<scoundrel50> ok, not sure about this, is there anyway I can take a picture of what I am seeing in the terminal to show you?
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: at the top, does it say   GNU nano 2.2.4          File: /var/lib/dpkg/status
<scoundrel50> yes
<AlanBell> good
<AlanBell> so that is a text editor, and you are looking at part of a very very long file of text
<AlanBell> you can scroll up and down
<scoundrel50> The curser is on Package: virtualbox3.0
<scoundrel50> I just tested that scrolling now
<AlanBell> press ctrl+c to see what line you are on which will say something like([ line 5825/61691 (9%), col 10/24 (41%), char 262479/2806869 (9%) ]) at the bottom of the screen (only different numbers)
<AlanBell> pressing ctrl+k will remove a line
<AlanBell> you need to start on Package: virtualbox3.0 and remove 23 lines or so
<scoundrel50> oh yes, I see that about the xserver-xorg-input-mouse
<AlanBell> just stop before you hit xserver-xorg-input-mouse because the poor little mouse did you no harm at all
<scoundrel50> ah, ok, will give it a try now3, I found where you are talking about
<popey> my mum once killed a mouse with a hammer
<popey> overkill
<popey> literally!
<mgdm> o_O
<AlanBell> I caught a rat that was living under the chicken house
<AlanBell> but I was nice and released it a few miles away in a wood
<scoundrel50> ok, just nuked all those lines, how do I save and exit
<AlanBell> you are not done yet
<gord> and thus starts the animated adventures of mr rattys quest to get home to the chicken house from the forest far far away
<AlanBell> ctrl+w then search for virtualbox-2.2
<scoundrel50> ok, what next?
<scoundrel50> ok,
<AlanBell> that is doing the second set of errors around line 44977 (which will now be 23 lines lower of course)
<scoundrel50> ok, found virtualbox2.2
<AlanBell> great, scroll about and you should see it looks much the same as the other one did
<AlanBell> nuke at will
<scoundrel50> ok, nuked those lines
<popey> nuke from orbit
<AlanBell> then ctrl+x to save and quit
<popey> it's the only way to be sure
<scoundrel50> I nuked till here libgnustep-base1.19
<AlanBell> great
<AlanBell> ctrl+x and it will ask if you are sure before saving
<AlanBell> then sudo apt-get install cowsay
<scoundrel50> saved, what do I do now, do I need to look for something?
<AlanBell> which should install with no warnings
<scoundrel50> awesome, no errors
<AlanBell> now: cowsay "yay, I fixed my Ubuntu"
<scoundrel50> brilliant
<scoundrel50> thank you so much, that is amazing
<scoundrel50> sweating a bit though
<scoundrel50> what is cowsay?
<popey> fun
<popey> on four legs
<Azelphur> Is it easy to try nouveau, and does it support the GTX 570?
<Azelphur> I think my freeze issues are the nvidia driver
<scoundrel50> hehe, you have no idea how happy that has made me, its cleaning up my Ubuntu.
<Azelphur> I'm noticing graphical artifacts now as well as the 30-60 second lockups
<scoundrel50> Tjhank you again
<AlanBell> cowsay is a small and harmless package with no dependencies worth mentioning
<webpigeon_laptop> AlanBell: it depends on... ascii \o/? :P
<AlanBell> IRC is great for solving problems more interactively than email question and answers
<scoundrel50> That was just amazing, I had no idea youi could do that, scary though
<cbx33> heh
 * cbx33 much prefers IRC to any other support medium
<popey> Azelphur: sounds like a duff video card
<Azelphur> popey, any way I can confirm that?
<popey> yeah, try nouveau, that will eilminate the driver
<Azelphur> cool, how do I try nouveau?
<popey> there is experimental 3d support
<popey> !nouveau
<lubotu3> nouveau is an open-source nvidia driver included by default in 10.04. Currently 3D rendering is unsupported. More information can be found in http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/ - See also !nvidia
<Azelphur> and gtx 570 is pretty new, will it support it?
<scoundrel50> I can go get a coffee now, thanks again, I do really appreciate it. :)
<popey> no ida
<popey> *idea
<popey> i have an old card
 * AlanBell discovers: cowsay -f cock "this is a chicken"
<popey> you need to remove nvidia to try nouveau
<popey> and there's a libgl1-mesa-experimental driver
<webpigeon_laptop> AlanBell: cowsay -l
<popey> which does 3d compositing
<Azelphur> I see, I'll give it a whirl
<popey> I have used it on my desktop when the nvidia driver was broken
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: do mail the list and let people know that it got solved
<scoundrel50> ok, will do. :)
<popey> my ant attack map is coming along http://popey.com/minecraft/gmap/?lat=0.527486&lng=0.425832&zoom=7
<Azelphur> lol X crashed, migration/5 kondemand/1 and migration/1 hit the top of the cpu munchers list and ssh stopped responding for ~10 seconds
<popey> Azelphur: dont set your expectations too high for nouveau
<popey> its very early days in development
<Azelphur> yea I know
<Azelphur> I won't be able to use it for my day to day computing but I can use it to see if I still get freezes
<Azelphur> what packages do I need to remove to uninstall the nvidia driver?
<scoundrel50> have posted a thank you to the list :)
<Azelphur> popey, ^
<AlanBell> nearly time for Brian Cox on the telly
<xapel> I need some simple software for generating and keeping track of invoices and payments. Any suggestions?
<AlanBell> xapel: gnucash is simple, possibly too simple
<AlanBell> openerp is probably not simple enough
<Azelphur> I got my machine back to life \o/
<Azelphur> got off nvidia-270 and back on 260. It hasn't frozen in the past 2 minutes so its probably fixed lol
<AlanBell> RMS in London tomorrw
<Azelphur> everyone hide
<Baikonur> a root mean square?
<brobostigon> !info rms
<lubotu3> Package rms does not exist in maverick
<gr33npeace> No manual entry for rms
 * brobostigon puts bbc2 on
<AlanBell> !info vrms
<lubotu3> vrms (source: vrms): virtual Richard M. Stallman. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.15 (maverick), package size 12 kB, installed size 100 kB
<AlanBell> brobostigon: ^^
<brobostigon> hmm, ohwell.
<czajkowski> *yawns*
<cbx33> any latex gurus around?
<Baikonur> i'm a latent guru
<czajkowski> cbx33: just ask your question and if someone can help they will
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> I have this file
<cbx33> https://github.com/cbx33/gitt/blob/master/commands.tex
<cbx33> the first one works fine.  But if I try to use the second one it complains about an ending not being in place
<cbx33> however, if I copy the Verbatim begin and end directly into code, as in chap2.tex, it runs fine
<cbx33> any ideas why?
<gr33npeace> you're missing a { at the end
<gr33npeace> (possibly...)
<gr33npeace> or you might have one too many... eyes not working...  :)
<cbx33> yeh...see I went through it and it seemed fine
<gr33npeace> will admit I don't know latex... the syntax seems very strange though
<cbx33> heh
<mgdm> gr33npeace: it was designed originally in the 70s, so yeah, it's a bit old-school :)
<gr33npeace> hahaha, good fact
<gr33npeace> might sound daft... but should you use lower case "v" in Verbatim?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> there are two Verbatims
<cbx33> verbatim is the normal one
<cbx33> Verbatim is fany
<cbx33> fancy
<bigcalm> o.O
<gr33npeace> hehehehe, ok
<nperry> Hmm, that was a lot of ping outs!
<brobostigon> agreed, yes.
 * HazRPG pokes brobostigon
<HazRPG> hi! :)
<HazRPG> Did you get change to see my blog post?
<ChrisB_> evening.
<ChrisB_> can someone help me download vmware server using wget please. I can't make it download the tar.gz archive, it keeps getting a part of the url only.
<ChrisB_> url is: https://www.vmware.com/tryvmware/p/activate.php?p=server20&lp=1&a=DOWNLOAD_FILE&baseurl=http://download2.vmware.com/software/server/&filename=VMware-server-2.0.2-203138.x86_64.tar.gz
<bigcalm> ChrisB_: enclose the URL in double quotes
<popey> ChrisB_: put quotes round it
<czajkowski> popey: *hugs*
<popey> hmm?
<bigcalm> popey: any good with mod_rewrite rules?
<popey> nope
<popey> make them up as I go along
<ChrisB_> thanks!
<bigcalm> :)
<czajkowski> popey: I give you a hug and you hmm.. charming :(
<popey> heh
<popey> wb
<AlanBell> czajkowski: *hugs*
 * czajkowski think popey is becoming a MooDoo 
 * popey shudders
<popey> never!
<czajkowski> AlanBell: Hello :) *hugs*
<popey> he uses that icky fedora thing
<AlanBell> can't trust those RPM types
<czajkowski> I have learnt Gatwick is an awesome airport to fly in and out of except past 11pm on return, lack of trains home
<czajkowski> popey: tell me about it
 * czajkowski looks at the red fedora on the table in front of her 
<bigcalm> Paint it green
<AlanBell> is that the one I gimped to aubergine?
<bigcalm> Cover it with tinfoil
<czajkowski> AlanBell: nope this is Jons
<AlanBell> bigcalm: as luck would have it I have a tin of green spray paint
<czajkowski> he did come and collect me at 1:15am this morning :D
<czajkowski> we got the train then back to Victoria
<bigcalm> Anybody down wit da mod_rewrite rulz, how does this look? RewriteRule \.(png|jpg|jpeg|gif)\?(w|h)=\d /my_resize_script.php?$1
 * AlanBell likes what bigcalm is doing
<AlanBell> dunno if it is right, but I know what you are doing
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> Worth a try
<AlanBell> silly fun is happening in #ubuntu-trivia if anyone wants to pop in
<hamitron> someone stop me looking at spending money on toys plz :/
<AlanBell> hamitron: join #ubuntu-trivia, it is a great waste of time
<hamitron> I am too dumb
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: as am I ;) - I'm still there :P
<hamitron> I hate joining loads of rooms
<hamitron> reason i hate having a seperate room for minecraft
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> puts me in a bad mood monitoring so many
<hamitron> so I get lazy and don't bother with IRC at all
<hamitron> (please avoid telling me that would be a good thing ;/ )
<AlanBell> hamitron: well trivia is one you don't have to monitor really
<hamitron> I find more than 4 tabs, and IRC is pain
<hamitron> I got the tabs at the top, and it means scrolling
 * AlanBell has 78 windows open in irssi
 * hamitron using pidgin
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> I was going to change to irssi, but the lag on my vps is too bad
<hamitron> IRC is the one thing, that I would benefit from having a widescreen monitor
<hamitron> just dump it at the side, then have web browser alongside
<hamitron> brb, XP just roggered itself
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-27
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Tottenham Court Road/Tolworth  25th/26th February 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=106
<Azelphur> popey: do you run munin? I made a plugin that does minecraft (and every other type of game server)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Kudos, LibreOffice - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/27/kudos-libreoffice/
<aizuddin> hello?
<aizuddin> i cannot connect ftp to my ubuntu server, can anyone help?
<Azelphur> aizuddin: do you mean sftp?
<aizuddin> and then, when i enter command 'ftp localhost' and login using the account and its password, it says '530 login incorrect, login failed, 421 service not available, remote server has closed connection'
<Azelphur> why are you setting up FTP? FTP is deprecated
<Azelphur> !private | aizuddin
<lubotu3> aizuddin: Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers, and ensure that you're not getting bad advice. Please note that some people find it rude to be sent a PM without being asked for permission to do so first.
<aizuddin> oh ok, im sory, im a newbie
<Azelphur> np :)
<Azelphur> yea, why FTP and not SFTP? FTP is kinda obsolete nowo
<aizuddin> haha, dont know, because i just had to follow this company old procedure
<Azelphur> you'll probably find that most clients that support FTP support SFTP too now, it's much safer, and it's built into the OS and generally easier.
<Azelphur> FTP is totally unencrypted and insecure, anyone can sniff your login details if they are on the same network as you
<Azelphur> so basically, FTP bad SFTP good.
<aizuddin> u mean, that server need to be set using sftp izzit?
<aizuddin> i mean better using sftp right?
<Azelphur> nope, if you have SSH you have SFTP already
<Azelphur> do you intend for each of your users to have a ssh account as well as a FTP account?
<aizuddin> ow, i think ssh already disabled by the admin, they dont want it to be enable
<Azelphur> how are you even controlling the server then? :S
<aizuddin> internally
<Azelphur> like, your in front of the computer physically?
<aizuddin> yes
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<aizuddin> they want it to be that way
<Azelphur> You can disable ssh logins on ssh and still use SFTP if you like
<aizuddin> ow ok, actually i nvr use that before ftp or sftp
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> but yea, either SFTP or FTPS, never FTP.
<aizuddin> haha
<aizuddin> then, i think i need to start from scratch how to setup web server in ubuntu server
<aizuddin> *guide
<Azelphur> aizuddin: what do you want, apache, mysql and php?
<aizuddin> this 1 is using apache2
<Azelphur> you already have a web server? then why do you want to set one up?
<aizuddin> so that is the first step right
<aizuddin> actually this server already runs about 5 website
<aizuddin> i want to add another, but i dont know how, just created new user since i see every website placed in every account directory
<Azelphur> you should ask the admin.
<aizuddin> so right now, i want to upload web files using filezilla, but is says login incorrect, like there's no such user available in the list
<Azelphur> wat...you said you was in front of the computer
<aizuddin> ya, but the admin already out, right now this company dont have its own admin
<aizuddin> ya, im in the server room
<Azelphur> how are you controlling this machine?
<aizuddin> *out=resign
<aizuddin> in front of the computer
<Azelphur> I see :P
<Azelphur> ok, so put the files on a USB drive or something and done?
<Azelphur> alternatively just enable SFTP since the old admin isn't there any more to say dumb things
<aizuddin> hahahah
<aizuddin> whats the command, will it change the current ftp login?
<Azelphur> sudo apt-get install openssh-server
<Azelphur> it'll change nothing to do with your proFTPd server
<Azelphur> after installing openssh-server, you can control the server over ssh, and upload files from your FTP client using your SSH credentials.
<aizuddin> ok, then this thing will automatically enable once i install it right?
<Azelphur> yep
<aizuddin> ok,
<aizuddin> lemmetry
<Azelphur> brb, getting food.
<Azelphur> aizuddin: any luck?
<aizuddin> hurm.. :s .. im a bit confuse now
<Azelphur> aizuddin: all you need to do is install openssh-server, and connect using SFTP and your normal login details
<aizuddin> erm.. after i install openssh, how to log in to that thing?
<Azelphur> what FTP client do you have?
<aizuddin> filezilla?
<Azelphur> so click file > site manager
<Azelphur> and new site, protocol: SFTP
<Azelphur> put host, user and password in, connect.
<aizuddin> logon type?
<Azelphur> normal.
<aizuddin> ok wait me try
<aizuddin> ok, it says, openssh is already a newer version
<Azelphur> you already have it then
<aizuddin> azelphur
<Azelphur> ?
<aizuddin> so what to do now, i try login but it comes out 'network error: connection refused'
<Azelphur> you left port blank, right?
<aizuddin> right, the right port is 22 izzit?
<Azelphur> yea should be
<czajkowski> aloha
 * Azelphur waves at czajkowski
 * Azelphur is off to sleep
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> that
<TheOpenSourcerer> \o/
<AlanBell> morning
<DJones> ali1234: Sounds like you you see the fallback as having possibilities
<ali1234> DJones: it looks worse than it is because gtk3 themes don't really work the same
<ali1234> in terms of features it is identical to gnome 2
<ali1234> maybe even a few improvements
<DJones> I didn't get chance to try it, had a stack of updates in a vm & by the time they'd finished it was time to do something elses
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did everyone have a nice weekend?
<MooDoo> saturday i was ill, photoshoot sunday went ok :D
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: what about you?
<AlanBell> Rugby was fun
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - enjoyed it mostly. The England Wales game was a real cracker of a match.
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Ah was this the Ubuntu rugby trip?
<dwatkins> aloha
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yup, spent a lot of time with the kids
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
<popey> now, off to london
<popey> also, no sign of raspberry pi yet
<TheOpenSourcerer> have a nice day \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is it supposed to be out today then?
<popey> rumours say, yes
<popey> "In other news, if you donât own an alarm clock, this weekend might be a good time to do some shopping."
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<DJones> Ah well, our internet may be a bit flakey today, changing email systems over from an own server to a webmail hosted system, guy thats doing it says that there's that much email to transfer over, it'll kill the bandwidth
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: yes, London Irish vs Northampton Saints
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: https://github.com/gtozzi/imapcp
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm sitting back & letting the IT support firm we use do it (well, them and MooDoo's collegues)
<TheOpenSourcerer> hey :-)
<DJones> Its going from pop3 to imap
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ewww,
<DJones> Yeah, even worse, they're only changing 80% of the email over, depending on which departments your in you get one of two @domain.com address, they're only doing one of them at the minute
<ali1234> does anyone know why no keyboard shortcuts work after i upgraded yesterday?
<diplo> Morning
<christel> morning
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: how is the hunt for a swede going?
<TheOpenSourcerer> hey christel
<TheOpenSourcerer> Badly :-) All I've had so far is some links to the Muppets Swedish chef ;-)
 * czajkowski hugs christel morning darling 
<mrevell> Guten morgen
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: lol well, if she'll settle for a norwegian just give me a prod :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks christel I may well take you up on that!
<christel> :)
<daubers> Morning
<andyloughran> hwody
<andyloughran> howdy
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, everyone! :D
 * DJones kicks JamesTait for being cheerful on a Monday
<JamesTait> DJones: It's the law. ;)
 * daubers is the law
<JamesTait> DJones: daubers told me to be cheerful, or he'd break my legs.
<JamesTait> * may not actually me true
<DJones> JamesTait: It should be the law that anybody who's cheerful on a Monday deserves a kick :)
<andyloughran> DEFINITELY NOT
<andyloughran> I'd get kicked all the time
<JamesTait> andyloughran: Did daubers threaten you too?
<andyloughran> nope, I'm just infectiously happy 99.9999% of the time
<andyloughran> I'm only not happy when Amazon RRS goes down
<JamesTait> andyloughran: The infectiously happy bit is a good way to be. :)
<andyloughran> It's my superpower :D
<andyloughran> http://scorecomms.com/andy_loughran
<andyloughran> :D
<JamesTait> I should be careful about suggesting that people in the Ubuntu community may not actually be happy and only appear so because they're under threat of violence.  It'll appear on someone's blog and before you know it, it'll be on the front page of Slashdot.
<andyloughran> It's ok, daubers already threatened slashdot :p
<JamesTait> Hah!
<czajkowski> JamesTait: it's monday and already causing trouble
<czajkowski> well done
<JamesTait> czajkowski: Moi? Never!
<daubers> slashdot... now there's somewhere you don't want to gon on a monday morning
<JamesTait> daubers: Or most of the rest of the week, actually.
<daubers> JamesTait: Very true
<andyloughran> mornibng czajkowski
<JamesTait> czajkowski: And a very good morning to you too! :D
<bigcalm[xoom]> Hey up peeps :-)
<DJones> bigcalm[xoom]: Any sign of cable fix yet?
<bigcalm[xoom]> Day 4 of no virgin media internet connection. And
<DJones> That answers that question
<bigcalm[xoom]> And now my T-Mobile connection won't sit still
<bigcalm[xoom]> :)
<bigcalm[xoom]> How are you DJones ?
<DJones> Not bad, nothing that painkillers & coffee can't solve
<DJones> How about you apart from internet troubles
<MooDoo> the end of the working day will help too :D
<DJones> MooDoo: Thats a loooooonnnggggg way away though
<MooDoo> DJones: too long, although i finish at 2 today, it won't come soon enough
<bigcalm[xoom]> DJones: my breakfast is coffee and co-codamol :)
<DJones> MooDoo: Just thought, the end of teh day means dog walk time, not good with a collapsing knee
<DJones> bigcalm[xoom]: Snap, but with the added extra of Ibuprofen as well
<MooDoo> DJones: ah your end of day routine differs...djones = dog walk MooDoo = vodka ;) lol
<bigcalm[xoom]> Anybody got a spare back in good working order that they don't need?
<DJones> Nope, if you find one, get a couple though, I could use one as well
 * gord is rather glad he made his first and only /home/ backup last week as this morning he managed to rm -rf his home directory
<bigcalm[xoom]> gord: good way to start Monday
<gord> in my defence, it was pre-coffee
<bigcalm[xoom]> Fair enough
<bigcalm[xoom]|> ...
 * DJones dcc's some fresh carrier pidgeons to bigcalm[xoom]| 
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Haha, cheers
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Hi brobostigon and davmor2
<MooDoo> hi davmor2
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 hello
<popey> Morning all
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm[xoom]|
<popey> (again)
<brobostigon> hi popey
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]|: man still no T'interweb?
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Hi popey and czajkowski :)
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]|: goto a coffee shop and work from there all day dude seriously
<bigcalm[xoom]|> davmor2: this is the case
<bigcalm[xoom]|> I've got plenty of dev to do that is self contained. Just means moving schedules around a little
<davmor2> MooDoo: 'ow do
<davmor2> czajkowski: here have hug
<davmor2> popey: morning dude
<MooDoo> davmor2: crappy, er i mean cracking
<davmor2> MooDoo: how was the PhotoShoot?
<MooDoo> davmor2: brill thanks.
<MooDoo> davmor2: http://prjmphotography.smugmug.com/Model-Shoots/The-Mellors-Family/21648272_rsbfCH#!i=1726622637&k=rtGf5gf
<MooDoo> sorry for the link lol
<bigcalm[xoom]> ...
<bigcalm[xoom]> Silly T-Mobile wants to get in on the disconnecting action
<davmor2> MooDoo: me likes sonny with the brolly
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: of to a coffee shop with you
<MooDoo> davmor2: :)
<daubers> ping AlanBell
<bigcalm[xoom]> Andchat could do with coloured nicks
<davmor2> MooDoo: of course the best photo is the one at the end taken by a pro that has you the right side of the viewfinder :P
<AlanBell> o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: in all seriousness there are some fun shots there
<daubers> AlanBell: Need some advice re: project management software (before I spend two days making spreadsheets)
<davmor2> Mr Bell I presume
<daubers> All roads seem to lead to OpenERP, but this seems very much OTT for what I need
<MooDoo> davmor2: actually it was self timer :p;
<popey> bigcalm[xoom]: what did vm support say?
<davmor2> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/desktops/373126/chillblast-fusion-immortal anyone after a new pc?
<AlanBell> daubers: how many people will be collaborating on managing the project?
<davmor2> MooDoo: No who'd of thunk it
<daubers> Managing the project? Maybe 2
<daubers> (mostly 1)
<MooDoo> davmor2: it was a fun afternoon, more to come hopefully
<bigcalm[xoom]> popey: recorded message says that it's affecting two post code areas. So not just my problem
<daubers> AlanBell: useful if I can give those with the marching orders some read only access to see what's going on in context
<bigcalm[xoom]> Eta is 7.47pm - odd time that
<AlanBell> daubers: ok, in that case you don't need openERP (which is good for lots of people with edit access to their bit)
<daubers> AlanBell: Ok... any advice on other software?
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: and they think it will get better as they increase the speed
<AlanBell> if you want a pretty gantt chart creating tool then planner is OK
<daubers> Problem with planner is that it doesn't work on the macs :)
<AlanBell> !info planner
<lubotu3> planner (source: planner): project management application. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.14.5-0ubuntu1 (oneiric), package size 3175 kB, installed size 7892 kB
<AlanBell> ok, so some kind of web based thingie then :)
<daubers> yeah :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> daubers: Also take a look at web2project - it's a php app - fork of the old dotproject.
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Not seen that one, had seen dotproject
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've not used it, but it took over from dotproject which seemed to die a bit of a slow painful death.
<AlanBell> there are things like trak and redmine which are good for actually managing projects, but not so good at doing pretty gantt charts
<daubers> I played with trac and ended up shouting at it lots
<AlanBell> I know in many organisations project management == gantt chart
<s-fox> o/
<daubers> gantt charts would be nice, but not essential if I can script something to pull out the data needed for them
<s-fox> daubers,  Doing some UML ?
<MooDoo> morning s-fox
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo , how are you ?
<MooDoo> s-fox: i'm fine thnaks. you?
<s-fox> Not bad thank you, did you have a good weekend ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Of course you could have OpenERP 6.1 up and running in about 15minutes and just use the Project tools...
<MooDoo> s-fox: ill saturday and photoshoot sunday, so half not bad lol
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm tempted... might throw together a couple of VM's and install OpenERP and web2project and play
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/02/22/how-to-install-openerp-6-1-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts/
<TheOpenSourcerer> daubers: ^^
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Ta
<s-fox> MooDoo,  Get any good pics ?
 * daubers waits for his base image to install
<DJones> Hmmh, precise beta 1 released this week, I'm tempted to upgrade now
<popey> http://event.asus.com/mobile/padfone/
<popey> nice
<gord> I can't own something called a fone though ;)
<popey> heh
<davmor2> popey: You goto wonder if it will be an exclusive for Voda.....ermmm....Fone
<directhex> aquarius, the mythical N9 PR1.2 has apparently shipped
<bigcalm[xoom]> popey: customer service person dug deep into the issue and found that the engineers are waiting on parts to be delivered from Motorola
<bigcalm[xoom]> Update manager getting 490kB/s via my phone isn't too shabby
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]|: till it kills your unlimited 3g usage :)
<brobostigon> cant happen here, three have unlimited, without a FUP. so proper unlimited.
<bigcalm[xoom]> As I pay 7.50 a month for unlimited usage,  I do hope T-Mobile don't mess me around
<DJones> Who would want a mobile phone that cane take photo's at 41 megapixels?
<bigcalm[xoom]> Goodness
<DJones> And its Symbian :) http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/27/nokia-announces-808-pureview-belle-os-4-inch-display-41-megap/
<ali1234> that's been announced then :)
<bigcalm[xoom]> You are doing it wrong if you base your camera purchase based upon the number of mega pixels it has
<ali1234> symbian is good
<bigcalm[xoom]> Lunch time I think
<oimon> hello chaps
<directhex> "41"
<directhex> not real 41
<directhex> also, symbian on a new high-end phone = call the roflcopter
<dwatkins> What's wrong with symbian? I've never used it, didn't know they still made phones with it either.
<ali1234> nothing is wrong with it
<directhex> dwatkins, it's as good as it's ever been
<directhex> dwatkins, which is "great, because the iphone doesn't exist yet"
<dwatkins> directhex: ah, I see - I suspected that might be the case
<ali1234> of course in the real world symbian can do everything the iphone can do
<directhex> the last few flagship symbian phones have been "it's got an awesome camera! also can sorta make calls, more or less"
<ali1234> it just doesn't have an apple logo on it
<directhex> ali1234, that's the hubris inside nokia which has lead to their current share price
<directhex> the "symbian is awesome, iphone is a fad" thinking at every level of manglement
<ali1234> no, the hubris inside nokia is called stephen elop
<directhex> sorry, that actually made me lol
<ali1234> the current share price is due to them now being a subsidiary of microsoft
<directhex> additional rofls
<ali1234> and all their recent phones being terrible
<directhex> so the OS is great but the hardware sucks? you'll find you're in disagreement with every professional phone reviewer on the planet, there
<ali1234> no. the problem is the OS sucks and the hardware is OK but not up to the usual nokia quality
<directhex> i thought symbian was just as good as iOS? now it sucks?
<ali1234> no. windows phone 7 sucks
<ali1234> and the lumia 700 and 800 are roughly on the hardware quality of htc
<ali1234> ie cheap plastic rubbish
<directhex> and the n9?
<ali1234> the N9? widely considered to be excellent?
<directhex> the hardware, i mean
<ali1234> never seen it
<directhex> see, what i'm doing here is trapping you with your own words, given the n9 and the lumia 800 have *identical* industrial design, with a unibody polycarbonate design
<ali1234> your point being?
<directhex> my point being the criticism of the hardware is incorrect - the lumia 800 and n9 have both been praised in equal measure (given they're the same thing in this regard) for the hardware
<directhex> everyone's entitled to their opinion, but yours is just wrong.
<ali1234> why even compare them then?
<ali1234> compare the lumia 800 with some of the previous symbian phones
<directhex> specifically?
<ali1234> N8 or C7
<directhex> "The Nokia N8 is housed within a beautiful body that comes in enough shades to please everyone from a schoolgirl to a suited businessman, and features perhaps the best mobile camera ever, but at its heart lies the disappointing Symbian^3 OS. The limitations of this software make sure this won't be the phone to bring Nokia back to the forefront of the smartphone market."
<directhex> that one?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> please do describe these "limitations"
<ali1234> what exactly can it not do?
<directhex> wait the C7 isn't plastic tat but the lumia 710 is? o_o
<ali1234> correct. the C7 is all metal
<ali1234> except the transparent part obviously
<directhex> http://www.techradar.com/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/nokia-c7-905015/review?artc_pg=2 onwards seems to cover symbian fairly well
<ali1234> "making calls is a great experience"
<directhex> if all you want is a portable telephone, buy a Â£10 S20 brick from tesco
<Dave2> Is making calls the main reason why you buy a smartphone?
<directhex> i actually laughed out loud at how terrible some of the UI is in that review
<ali1234> Dave2: er, yes?
<directhex> the voice control stuff is brilliant
<oimon> linux is letting me down atm...:(
<ali1234> which by there own admission, they don't want any way
<oimon> terrible performance on 11.10 + nvidia dual screen in gnome shell
<directhex> so it's okay to include a useless option as long as the useless option is implemented by a dozen monkeys bashing keyboards?
<Dave2> But all phones can make calls. You wouldn't buy a smartphone just to make calls. If making calls is all that matters, why buy a smartphone?
<ali1234> Dave2: so it can do other things. that doesn't mean making phone calls isn't the most important function
<directhex> you can do other things on a Â£10 series 20 brick too. it has snake!
<Dave2> Depends on your usage. It's not the most important function on my phone. And regardless, if it can make calls really well but everything else is a bit painful, why would you buy that phone over a simpler phone with a better battery life?
<ali1234> because symbian phones already have great battery life
<Dave2> Not compared to dumber phones.
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> they have battery life comparable to feature phones
<directhex> and functionality too!
<directhex> zing!
<ali1234> they absolutely destroy any other smartphone if that's your most important criteria
<Dave2> If battery life is your most important factor, you don't buy a smartphone
<ali1234> unless your third most important criteria is mapping or web browsing
<Dave2> Symbian phones may have a longer battery life than, say, Android, but they don't rival dumber phones.
<ali1234> that's just plain flat out wrong
<Dave2> Hoe l
<Dave2> er
<Dave2> How long would you expect the battery to last on a decent Symbian phone?
<ali1234> about a week
<directhex> with what usage pattern?
<Dave2> Really? I find that quite hard to believe.
<ali1234> with a similar usage pattern to a feature phone
<directhex> the majority of the battery usage on a smartphone is backlighting a 4" high definition screen
<directhex> which is pretty OS-agnostic an issue
<ali1234> C7 has no backlight, it's AMOLED
<ali1234> same for N9
<ali1234> er N8
<directhex> so do plenty of samsung android phones
<Dave2> But regardless, you get dumber phones with longer battery life than that.
<Dave2> Significantly longer, too
<yossarianuk> can anyone suggest **anything** that might improve flash on Ubuntu?
<yossarianuk> Performance has always been worse on Ubuntu for me (on multiple devices/machines)  than other distros - Arch Linux, Fedora, OpenSuse, Bohdi (based on Ubunut) and Mandriva all perform flash video better than Ubuntu - I used to think it was pulseaudio but it can't be as suse and fedora use that by default now. The only difference is that I usually use KDE - however Bodhi Linux is E17 and Fedora is gnome3
<ali1234> fullscreen flash?
<ali1234> or just general flash?
<yossarianuk> yes
<ali1234> are you using dual head?
<yossarianuk> well both
<yossarianuk> no
<directhex> yossarianuk, which 3d driver?
<yossarianuk> its odd - I have athlonX2 Desktop with Nvidia 450GTS) and a crappy netbook N150 (intel on board) - both perform worse with ubuntu than others
<yossarianuk> usually flash video starts o.k then will become totally unwatchable after a while in ubuntu
<directhex> degrading over time? that's odd
<ali1234> not for nvidia driver
<yossarianuk> (the n150 was bascially not good enough to watch fullscreen vid at all - with Bodhi its totally fine - in fact its pretty good)
<ali1234> they're supposed to have fixed it now... but i've heard that before
<ali1234> are you using unity?
<ali1234> and how long is "a while"
<yossarianuk> I have noticed this for a while - its actually caused me to switch from ubuntu 11.10 -> Fedora 16 on my netbook
<yossarianuk> a while can be random
<ali1234> an hour? a day? a week?
<yossarianuk> (oh usually within 30 mins)
<ali1234> how much memory do you have?
<yossarianuk> On my Desktop 4 GB - on the netbook 1GB
<yossarianuk> But the netbook is o.k with Fedora16 (gnome3) and Bodhi (e17)
<yossarianuk> which is odd
<davmor2> yossarianuk: check the default flash settings in ubuntu with those of fedora
<yossarianuk> will do - they should be the same...
<yossarianuk> (i'm not at home so will double check when I get back)
<yossarianuk> I don't think its related to compiz as unity2d has similar issue
<yossarianuk> one other thing is that on ubuntu the sound sometimes has a delay .
<davmor2> yossarianuk: that's an assumption, if it is different on one system than it is on another then there is a reason for it,  the likely reason is with the default that the different distros package the application with
<ali1234> hmm that sounds very related
<ali1234> it probably isn't flash "settings"
<ali1234> it only has about 3
<ali1234> does anything else slow down?
<yossarianuk> not that i've noticed....
<yossarianuk> (I know unity is more resource intensive than e17, but gnome3 should be similar)
<ali1234> unity-2d isn;t resource intensive
<ali1234> unity however is significantly more intensive than gnome-shell, at least on 11.10
<ali1234> but if it happens on -2d then that isn't the problem
<AkaLeafy> hi can anyone help me with software center plz?
<yossarianuk> perhaps i'll just watch fullscreen flash in other distro's until 12.04 is released - if its still an issue then i'll do a proper bug report.
<ali1234> i suspect a kernel issue
<ali1234> ubuntu makes a lot of scheduler tweaks
<ali1234> sometimes they cause problems
<ali1234> anyway it will be a long hard task to track down whatever it is
<yossarianuk> possibly - Suse, Fedora and Arch all have later kernels and Bodhi also has 3.2.x kernel in its repos (which i'm using)  - also opensuse + fedora also have later versions of pulseaudio ...
<ali1234> if you have a lot of spare time try a mainline kernel or 12.04
<yossarianuk> that's why it might be best to wait and see if the issues are fixed by 12.04...
<yossarianuk> ali1234 - yes I may have time to compile a vinilla kernel..
<ali1234> you don't need to compile it, there's an archive
<AkaLeafy> hello?
<AlanBell> hello
<ali1234> AkaLeafy: you have to tell us what the problem is
<AkaLeafy> does not run
<popey> yossarianuk: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
<ali1234> what version of ubuntu?
<ali1234> cheers popey
<popey> np
<AkaLeafy> 11.1 32bit
<AkaLeafy> i have tried running from terminal and get an error message
<AlanBell> !paste | AkaLeafy
<AkaLeafy> iain@iain-desktop:~$ software-center 2012-02-27 13:13:30,213 - softwarecenter.ui.gtk3.em - INFO - EM's: 17 15 21 Traceback (most recent call last):   File "/usr/bin/software-center", line 151, in <module>     app = SoftwareCenterAppGtk3(datadir, xapian_base_path, options, args)   File "/usr/share/software-center/softwarecenter/ui/gtk3/app.py", line 305, in __init__     self.datadir)   File "/usr/share/software-center/softwarecen
<AkaLeafy> gi._glib.GError: Icon 'package-install' not present in theme
<AlanBell> AkaLeafy: soemthing is missing, can you try doing "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^" in the terminal
<AkaLeafy> ok thanks alan i will try that
<AkaLeafy> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<AlanBell> ok, in this case I think we poke davmor2
<AlanBell> AkaLeafy: is there anything you recall installing that might have a bearing on this, a custom theme perhaps?
<davmor2> ouch
<davmor2> what
<AkaLeafy> nope just using standard themes
<AlanBell> davmor2: broken software centre, won't start, partial error trace above
<yossarianuk> thanks - i'll try out a mainline kernel and re-test...
<AlanBell> davmor2: is this something AkaLeafy should file a bug about?
<davmor2> AlanBell: one second
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: sorry for the delay mid test,  right can you tell me what you did when you first got the error?
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: can you user paste.ubuntu.com to give me a full paste of the error please
<AkaLeafy> i reied opening software center from side panel and it would not so i tried using terminal instead
<AkaLeafy> how do i do that?
<AlanBell> AkaLeafy: go here http://paste.ubuntu.com/ and paste in the full error message and hit paste! then tell us the URL of your paste
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: go to http://paste.ubuntu.com  then copy all the text in the terminal and paste it in the website,  add your name where it asks for it and then paste the link once you save the page here please
<AkaLeafy> ok will do
<AkaLeafy> done
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: AlanBell http://www.reghardware.com/2012/02/27/asus_outs_1920_by_1280_android_tablet_ipad_3_challenger/
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: can you post the URL you now have here should be something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/123456
<AlanBell> AkaLeafy: that will give you a page with a url like paste.ubuntu.com/198731 or something, paste that in here
<AkaLeafy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/859229/
<popey> yeah âº
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: want :)
<AkaLeafy> sorry am new to this
<TheOpenSourcerer> April apparently.
<AlanBell> thats fine AkaLeafy
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: no worries, we all started off the same
<AkaLeafy> well you got to start some where lol
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: okay so it's saying that one of the icons isn't available for the theme you are using,  are you sure you didn't change the theme?
<AkaLeafy> dont think i did no
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: have you been able to open it at all or was this the first time you tried?
<AkaLeafy> it has never opened properly
<AkaLeafy> my current theme is ambience btw
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: okay lets try some surgery,  can you open a terminal please and type in the following  mv ~/.cache/software-center ~/.cache/moo  and then try opening software center again please
<AkaLeafy> ok
<AkaLeafy> icon flashes but does not load
<kirrus> wq
<kirrus> argh, wrong terminal
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: okay and now if you try opening it from the terminal
<AkaLeafy> hold on
<AkaLeafy> nope looks like same error
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: and just to check it's Ubuntu 11.10 that you are running correct?
<AkaLeafy> correct
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: could you maximise your terminal and type in the following please,  dpkg -l aptdeamon
<AkaLeafy> ok
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: and then paste the output into paste.ubuntu.com again please
<AkaLeafy> no need i get an error
<AkaLeafy> No packages found matching aptdeamon.
<DJones> Should it not be "aptdaemon" ?
<davmor2> DJones: yeap thanks
<AkaLeafy> ok hold on
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: should be dpkg -l aptdaemon
<bigcalm[xoom]> Back from shopping and still no connection :)
<davmor2> I hit the wrong keys sorry
<bigcalm[xoom]> This is a test of the and chat voice to text interface
<popey> no, you hit the right keys, just in the wrong order :p
<bigcalm[xoom]> My goodness I'm very surprised how well that worked enter
<popey> lol
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: if it's the same tomorrow consider yourself invited over so you can share my connection :)
<bigcalm[xoom]> Enter does not submit a line
<AkaLeafy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/859268/
<bigcalm[xoom]> Vat vait are you
<DJones> bigcalm[xoom]: Now try "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers;A peck of pickled peppers Peter Piper picked;If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers, Where's the peck of pickled peppers Peter Piper picked?" :)
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: okay and now the same again but for python-aptdaemon
<bigcalm[xoom]> Peter piper picked a peck of pickled peppers a peck of pickled peppers peter picked text it peter piper picked a peck of pickled peppers with a peck of pickled pepper
<bigcalm[xoom]> I think I fell over before the voice to text system did
<DJones> Thats quite impressive, not totally right, be a good attempt
<bigcalm[xoom]> I think I thought I thought the little thing I thought for some for totalled or totalled
<bigcalm[xoom]> Lol
<bigcalm[xoom]> Okay that's enough of that
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: she sells seashells on the seashore if she sells seashells from the seashore she'll sell seashells forever more
<AkaLeafy> command not found davmor2
<AkaLeafy> was i supposed to dpkg?
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: can you try dpkg -l python-aptdaemon
<AkaLeafy> ok i realise that now sorry
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: no worries
<AkaLeafy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/859280/
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: allow me to introduce you to mvo
<AkaLeafy> ok
<davmor2> mvo: AkaLeafy is the guy with the USC issue
<mvo> hey AkaLeafy - could you please check if you have the package "hicolor-icon-theme" installed?
<AkaLeafy> ok
<AkaLeafy> nope
<mvo> AkaLeafy: could you please install it? e..g in a terminal via "sudo apt-get install hicolor-icon-theme" ?
<AkaLeafy> ok
<mvo> and let me know if that helps?
<AkaLeafy> sorry must have been installed already
<AkaLeafy> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<mvo> and "python -c 'from gi.repository import Gtk; theme=Gtk.IconTheme.get_default();print theme.lookup_icon("package-install", 48, 0)'" will print a error too?
<AkaLeafy> none
<mvo> AkaLeafy: thanks! could you please run "sudo  update-icon-caches /usr/share/icons/hicolor/" and then the above python command again? does that still print "None" ?
<AkaLeafy> yep still none
 * mvo scratches head
<AkaLeafy> confused? lol
<mvo> AkaLeafy: yes, I assume "ls -l /usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/actions/package-install.png" give you output, right? ie. a file with that name?
<mvo> AkaLeafy: if you run "python -c 'from gi.repository import Gtk; theme=Gtk.IconTheme.get_default();print theme.lookup_icon("package-install", 16, 0)'" (not the change from 48 to 16) - still None?
<AkaLeafy> ls: cannot access /usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/actions/package-install.png: No such file or directory
<mvo> ohhh
<mvo> in this case, please run:
<mvo> sudo apt-get install --reinstall hicolor-icon-theme
<AkaLeafy> ok done
<AkaLeafy> still get same ls error
<mvo> AkaLeafy: hmmmm, ok
 * mvo scratches head some more
<AlanBell> mvo: that is provided by synaptic according to dpkg -S
<DJones> This sounds nice http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/44638/huawei-mediapad-10-fhd-quad-core-android
<mvo> AlanBell: yeah, I just nocited too, I need to find out what other icon theme is providing it
<mvo> AkaLeafy: as a workaround you can install synaptic for now, I will look into a fresh vm now to figure out what the root of this is
<AkaLeafy> ok how do i do that from terminal?
<mvo> AkaLeafy: sudo apt-get install synaptic
<AkaLeafy> ok thanks
<mvo> AkaLeafy: one more question - do you "humanity-icon-theme" installed?
<mvo> AkaLeafy: and if not, could you install it (and not install synaptic) and let me know if that helps?
<mvo> AkaLeafy: i.e. does "ls -l /usr/share/icons/Humanity/actions/16/package-install.svg " print anything for you?
<AkaLeafy> ls: cannot access /usr/share/icons/Humanity/actions/16/package-install.svg: No such file or directory
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: how did you install this version of Ubuntu out of interest?
<AkaLeafy> downloaded iso
<davmor2> hmm that blew that thinking out of the water then :(
<AkaLeafy> lol sorry davmor2
<mvo> AkaLeafy: could you please "sudo apt-get install --reinstall humanity-icon-theme" ? and what iso? the normal ubuntu desktop iso?
<AkaLeafy> yes normal desktop
<AkaLeafy> ls -l /usr/share/icons/Humanity/actions/16/package-install.svg -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1686 2011-08-25 22:38 /usr/share/icons/Humanity/actions/16/package-install.svg
<AkaLeafy> ok guys just ran software center from terminal again it appears to have loaded ok this time...
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: Woohoo, so I wonder why humanity managed to uninstall itself
<AkaLeafy> maybe it never installed at all
<Laney> mvo in #-uk :O
<davmor2> Laney: yes so behave ;)
<AkaLeafy> thanks for your help guys much appreciated
<AlanBell> AkaLeafy: can you do "grep -n humanity-icon-theme /var/log/dpkg.log"
<AkaLeafy> sure hold on
<AlanBell> and pastebin the output of that, it will tell us when that package was installed/uninstalled etc
<AkaLeafy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/859363/
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: hmmm it looks like your system may not of completely installed correctly
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: what does dpkg -l ubuntu-desktop say
<Laney> the icon package was always installed
<Laney> somehow the file wasn't there
<dwatkins> Should I download flash from the Adobe site or install via apt/synaptic?
<AkaLeafy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/859369/
<AkaLeafy> well thanks again guys .......
<gord> dwatkins, do you have a reason to download from the site?
<dwatkins> gord: it's what my browser linked me to - I'm just wondering from the perspective of what might seem like the logical method to a new user versus the 'best' method
<dwatkins> I don't know whether one is better than the other.
<ali1234> the sad truth is it's going to suck whichever method you use
<ali1234> also you shouldn't do any of those things
<dwatkins> what, use youtube? ;)
<ali1234> you're supposed to use software center or the applications lens
<dwatkins> okey dokey
<AkaLeafy> hello again guys whole system is performing much better now thanks - i can see all my icons now - thanks
<czajkowski> Laney: got a moment for a quick pm ?
<Laney> sure
<czajkowski> thanks
<davmor2> AkaLeafy: woohoo nice
<AkaLeafy> some were missing before - looks much tidier now lol
<Laney> what happens if you stab a blood blister?
<Laney> so tempting ...
<directhex> Laney, er, blood
<Laney> no gangrenous death?
<directhex> Laney, i've had them on my cheek before, i tend to squish them until they pop. it's less annoying in the grand scheme of things
<directhex> on my cheek = inside
<Laney> gosh
<Laney> this is on the end of my finger. makes climbing slightly annoying.
<directhex> done working for the day. now to carry on tidying my home!
 * czajkowski stabs gord 
<gord> lemmealone
<mattt> woah, the violence
<gord> i'm going to start a charity for abused #ubuntu-ukians, will have Anneka from Challenge Anneka present the sad music adverts on telly
<davmor2> czajkowski: man you're stabbing gord I'm jealous now
<czajkowski> gord: I've managed not to sta anyone in here since xmas
<czajkowski> you broke me
<bigcalm[xoom]> Even though my boss knows about my network outage, I haven't felt this stressed for more than 2 years (or however long I've been on the meds)
 * bigcalm[xoom] goes in search of tea
 * Pendulum hugs bigcalm[xoom] 
<mattt> bigcalm[xoom]: what happened
 * bigcalm[xoom] hugs Pendulum tight
<bigcalm[xoom]> mattt: VirginMedia have a hardware problem that has knocked out two post codes. This is day 4. They are waiting for replacement parts and hope to fix tonight
<bigcalm[xoom]> We'll see
<mattt> bigcalm[xoom]: ah, work from home?  suckage :(
<bigcalm[xoom]|> mattt: yes
 * bigcalm[xoom]| sips his camomile and spearmint tea
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]|: ah about to ring up Vm again then
<bigcalm[xoom]|> I haven't had a tea infusion since 2006. This is taking me back to when I started as a coder for a living
<bigcalm[xoom]|> davmor2: he he
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dribble dribble dribble: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2012/02/report-samsung-galaxy-s-iii-to-have-1080p-screen-quad-core-processor.ars
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Oh my, I want that as my hand set upgrade! Doubt that it'll be out by April though. And T-Mobile will drag their feet once it is available
<AlanBell> you have to watch out for things that claim to be HD in media reports
<bigcalm[xoom]|> HasDust
<AlanBell> there is a samsung beam thing with a projector in it that I have seen described as HD.
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Highly dubious
<AlanBell> there are a lot of "HD" resolutions these days, not just 1080x1920, the projector in a phone thing is actually nHD which is 640x320 or a ninth of HD
<AlanBell> and that gets passed like chinese whispers through a journalist or two and becomes a "watch HD movies on the projector" kind of thing
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Heh
<gord> I've seen a lot of "hd" tvs that run sub hd resolutions as well, they just accept a HD video format like 720p or 1080p
<gord> rather annoying when you hook it up to a pc and you can't see your panel because its really 960p or whatever
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Like my tv :(
<mattt> bigcalm[xoom]|: are you on 3G now or something?
<bigcalm[xoom]|> H, yes
<bigcalm[xoom]> Blah
<TheOpenSourcerer> Very, very nice. Ubudroid in action: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/ubuntu-for-android-gets-shown-off-at-world-mobile-congress/
<MartijnVdS> So.. Linux for Human Beings for Android
 * MartijnVdS calls Sarah Connor
 * czajkowski wants the galaxy nexus 
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: I have it, it's â¥
<czajkowski> looks lovely
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: it's fast as well.. and it works in 12.04 now (\o/)
<czajkowski> oh sweet
<MartijnVdS> slight problem with banshee, but that should be fixable
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i have one of those in my hand now âº
<MartijnVdS> So.. rhythmbox is the recommended/default music player again, right?
<MartijnVdS> (in 12.04)
<popey> yes
 * MartijnVdS tries it.. let's see if it has improved ;)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: no, basically
<czajkowski> ahh
<gordonjcp> it doesn't play streams
 * czajkowski wonders when Banshee will vanish and RB appears with all my music 
<gordonjcp> and it doesn't play local files
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I'm going to see if it crashes when I plug in my phoner
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: if it doesn't, it's better than banshee ;)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: it might not...
<popey> czajkowski: why would it vanish?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: also, I stopped using it after it decided that since it couldn't *play* any of my media files, it was going to delete them instead
<popey> czajkowski: we don't rip out apps that you're using during upgrades
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: rhythmbox is fatally flawed, fatally like "may as well run rm -rf / as root" flawed
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: So is banshee if it can't copy music to my phone
<MartijnVdS> anyway, need to reboot, brb
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: right, but banshee won't go "oh, I can't copy these, I'll just delete them from the library"
<czajkowski> popey: I can hope can't I :)
<ali1234> anyone ever used hybridauth and wordpress-social-login to enable openid logins from launchpad?
<popey> czajkowski: just uninstall banshee if you dont want it
<davmor2> czajkowski: it already is
<MartijnVdS> Argh
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: it's always possible I'm doing something wrong, but I would have thought that in a clean, un-fiddled-with install of 12.04 rhythmbox ought to be able to at least play back local files
<MartijnVdS> phone supports FLAC. So rhythmbox copies flac to phone
<MartijnVdS> ...
<czajkowski> popey: aye was waiting till it was nice and stable again
<ali1234> hmm... has anyone ever used openid at all beyond using it to log in places?
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, a bit
<ali1234> do you know what hybridauth is?
<ali1234> my problem in a nutshell: i want to log in to wordpress with an arbitrary openid
<ali1234> hybridauth supports generic openid but it is disabled in several wordpress plugins
<ali1234> however, they still support openid from specific providers such as yahoo
<ali1234> i have one found one reference to a reason for this
<AlanBell> no, sorry. I hacked openID into etherpad lite (badly) and got it working (just) but thats about it
<ali1234> someone claims that if you run your own openid provider you can log in to wordpress as admin by guessing the admin's email
<ali1234> and then creating that identity on your own openid provider
<ali1234> now to me, that sounds like it would only work if wordpress (or the plugin) was incredibly badly designed
<ali1234> although thinking about it, i can see how you could accidentally design it that way, if you link a wp account to a "remote type" account which is one of(google, yahoo, openid)
<ali1234> then, all openid accounts will be exactly equal
<ali1234> that's a design flaw of the plugin though
<ali1234> i've hacked generic openid support back into wp-social-connect
<ali1234> but it doesn't work
<ali1234> sweet i managed to add launchpad as a specific provider
<ali1234> it was actually mind bogglingly easy
<ali1234> it doesn't seem to actually link to a wordpress account, it just creates a new one
<AlanBell> does it store the full openID identity somewhere?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it gets your "full name" from openid, lowercases it, replaces space with _, and makes a new account
<ali1234> i guess it also compares the email addresses
<ali1234> so yeah, if i allowed any provider, it could be trivially fooled
<shauno> does openid actually make any requests straight from wordpress to the provider?  I was under the impression it was all submitted via the client
<ali1234> as i understand it, client logs in to provider (launchpad), and the provider pings a callback on the consumer (my wordpress site)
<shauno> so much of it seems to happen within the browser, that I'm curious what happens if you fudge your local name resolution so the provider responding on the client's side isn't who it should be
<AlanBell> not sure the provider and consumer talk to each other
<AlanBell> you have to do some messing about if the consumer is on a private address (192.168.*) because some providers won't redirect there (launchpad will, Ubuntu SSO won't)
<ali1234> they must talk at some point
<ali1234> otherwise i could just set up a local provider and log in to any site as anyone i wanted
<AlanBell> don't think so, it is all stuff that gets passed about by the browser
<ali1234> well wikipedia disagrees
<AlanBell> ok, consumer checks with provider
<ali1234> yeah
<AlanBell> provider doesn't ping consumer (because I can run a consumer locally behind NAT and it works
<AlanBell> )
<ali1234> now, if i allowed two openid sources, someone could create an account using my details on the second one, then log in as me
<ali1234> but that's because this plugin is very badly designed
<AlanBell> yeah, it should store the full openID URI for each account
<ali1234> perhaps it would not work if they were both technically different providers
<AlanBell> not just trust the assertion of nickname or whatever
<ali1234> let me check the database
<ali1234> ok, it appears to store some form of the openid
<ali1234> full url
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> i tested this:
<ali1234> delete the old user, make a new user manualy with my details from launchpad
<ali1234> then, login using launchpad
<ali1234> it created a new user rather than letting me in to the old one
<ali1234> so pretty much as expected
<MartijnVdS> oooh: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/716
<ali1234> would be better if it let me link the accounts instead
<shauno> I guess what I'm curious about, is what happens if I setup a provider inside my lan.  and then add an entry to my hosts file so it answers requests that would have otherwise gone to a provider outside my lan
<shauno> can the the consumer tell the difference?
<ali1234> then the shared secret test will fail
<ali1234> what can resize pngs from the command line and doesn't depend on libx11?
<ali1234> also, i think raspberrypi.org runs on a raspberry pi
<AlanBell> imagemagick can be compiled to not depend on X11
<ali1234> i don't want to recompile it
<ali1234> there must be something in the repos...
<AlanBell> there is the GD image library that PHP thingies use
<ali1234> pngtools?
<ali1234> nope
<AlanBell> php-gd5 depends on X stuff :(
<AlanBell> php5-gd even
<AlanBell> The Raspberry Pi Foundation will be making a big (and very positive) announcement that just might interest you at 0600h GMT on Wednesday 29 February 2012
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell - I have added an alarm to the calendar :-)
<ali1234> most amusing factoid from MWC - "Americans most likely (12%) to spill alcohol on their phone."
<AlanBell> wow. Does that include Bud lite?
<ali1234> i guess so
<daubers> Evening
<ali1234> i must say... wordpress is much easier to develop for than drupal
<ali1234> i spent months fighting drupal on my own site and that's really simple
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha, I'm doing Drupal stuff atm
<ali1234> my experience so far with wordpress can be summed up with that "everything went better than expected" image
<czajkowski> AlanBell: see pm
<s-fox> o/
<zleap> 58 days till 12.04 is launched
<popey> 13
<popey> bah!
 * mgdm waves at Seeker` 
<Seeker`> lo
<mgdm> how goes it?
 * mgdm is considering doing a reinstall for the next Ubuntu from scratch, maybe on an SSD
<mgdm> my Oneiric machine takes around 5-6 minutes to boot, which is suboptimal
<Seeker`> goes good
 * popey has a USB3 HDD enclosure arriving tomorrow
 * popey will put an SSD in it
<mgdm> bloke at work has an SSD now instead of 2x 1TB drives in RAID0 (you can imagine why he now has new drives)
<mgdm> vast improvement over the old
<popey> yeah, i _love_ the ssd in this laptop
<popey> the lenovo engineer came to replace the mobo, then handed the laptop to me to test. i powered up.. "fsck me thats a bit quick!"
<bigcalm[xoom]> He didn't notice the ssd?
<diplo> evening all
<bigcalm[xoom]> Blah
<zleap> lol nice#
<bigcalm[xoom]> Is there any sort of compensation for lack of service from VirginMedia?
<mgdm> doubt it
<diplo> Nope
<diplo> Tried before, can phone up and say I'm leaving because of the downtime
<mgdm> unless you moan at them a LOT, at which point you might get something to keep quiet
<mgdm> but consumer broadband has no SLA
<diplo> Will probably give you some extra services or a month free
<bigcalm[xoom]> Bah
<bigcalm[xoom]> Could do without the hassle
<diplo> I had that one time with them bigcalm[xoom]
<diplo> Sucks
<bigcalm[xoom]> The service is great when it works :)
<gordonjcp> diplo: it's always worth threatening to leave because of crap performance
 * bigcalm[xoom] looks into tonic
<diplo> yeah i was with them for 12-13 years bigcalm[xoom]
<diplo> Too good a deal with Sky :)
<diplo> Debating moving back now though, going to phone them and see what they offer
<bigcalm[xoom]> I like the mates rates we get
<diplo> I don't know anyone at Virgin any more, they all get laid off down here :(
<bigcalm[xoom]> And the 5mb we'd get from ads isn't very enticing
<bigcalm[xoom]> And up here. But we managed to keep or mates rates some how
<diplo> I only get 6mb
<diplo> Speed didn't really bother me to much now adays
<diplo> II don't download anything really now adays
<popey> bigcalm[xoom]: can I have you V+ box please âº
<bigcalm[xoom]> popey: sure, if we ever stop using vm ;)
<diplo> popey, I have one they never took, got a spare card ?
<popey> ya
<diplo> Yours if you want it
<popey> oooo
<diplo> Got a v+ and the basic box
<popey> yeah, i have a basic box not doing anything
<popey> with a card
<popey> the card will work in a v+ box wont it?
<diplo> hmm thinking about it
<diplo> They work, but i think if the card isn't +'d it won't record etc
<diplo> More than welcome to try
<popey> i can try with my cards
<diplo> Not sure how I would organise getting them to you, be visiting my bro near epsom in next month or so
<popey> whereabouts do you live?
<diplo> Near Bath
<diplo> Depends on how soon you want it, going to be out and about over next few weeks but haven't been told yet :)
<diplo> where I am going.
<popey> no hurry âº
<diplo> Cool, well now I know how I have a place for them to go I can make sure I get a gig your way if anything comes up.. you're Farnham way aren't you ? From G+ posts i've seen.
<popey> yeah
<bigcalm[xoom]|> New eta of 12.47am. Not sure I'll stay up to find out
<zleap> what tuesday or wednesday
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Tuesday
<bigcalm[xoom]> Just did less on a .zip and got a result I was not expecting
<AlanBell> less is clever
<bigcalm[xoom]> Agreed
<andresmp> hello, I was experimenting with bazar and launchpad
<andresmp> if i push something on my side how does it show up in launchpad?
<popey> if you push it to launchpad, yes âº
<popey> you can see it on code.launchpad.net/~YOURLPID
<bigcalm[xoom]> It is I!
<andresmp> yay! thanks popey! https://code.launchpad.net/~andresmp/podofile/spaniard
<andresmp> looks like no one is using that anyway. I hope i do not mess things up for the next person.
<popey> its your own branch
<popey> nobody else can touch it
<andresmp> ah...
<andresmp> so I have to do a merge request.
<andresmp> when bzr says "nothing to do" does it mean it already did what it was intended to do. or that it efectively did nothing because it already did it?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-28
<AlanBell> !info python-zsi
<lubotu3> python-zsi (source: zsi): Zolera Soap Infrastructure. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.1~a1-3 (oneiric), package size 694 kB, installed size 2128 kB
<AlanBell> !info python-zsi precise
<lubotu3> python-zsi (source: zsi): Zolera Soap Infrastructure. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.1~a1-3 (precise), package size 694 kB, installed size 2128 kB
<AlanBell> !info python-zsi testing
<lubotu3> python-zsi (source: zsi): Zolera Soap Infrastructure. In component main, is optional. Version 2.1~a1-3 (testing), package size 692 kB, installed size 2088 kB
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Tutorial Video: Reporting a Bug in Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/28/tutorial-video-reporting-a-bug-in-ubuntu/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] launchpadlib et al Guidance - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/28/launchpadlib-et-al-guidance/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Call For Manual Test Writers - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/28/call-for-manual-test-writers/
<knightwise> hey hey
<popey> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> art'nune
<czajkowski> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting device: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2012/02/linux-computer-the-size-of-a-thumb-drive-now-available-for-preorder.ars Not cheap though...
<popey> riding on the raspberry pi coat-tails of mindshare
<TheOpenSourcerer> WP7 has a rather gaping flaw: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2012/02/skype-beta-for-windows-phone-arrives-but-it-shows-the-limits-of-the-platform.ars
<popey> daubers: next time you see your guy from black magic, can you tell them their support sucks giant donkeys balls
<czajkowski> and good morning to you to popey
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> good morning ! :
<MooDoo> hello all
<knightwise> hey moodoo , how are you today
<MooDoo> knightwise: ah not bad thanks
<MooDoo> you?
<knightwise> Doin fine ,
<knightwise> just pimped out my old EEEPc 701 with Crunchbang , remote SSH and teamviewer
<knightwise> gonna shove it under a closet at my parents place and use it as a remote little server
<daubers> popey: ?
<daubers> also, morning
<popey> morning
<daubers> Not got your card back yet? or back in the same state?
<popey> no, i moved the card to another pc to test it
<popey> and can't compile the silly binary driver for it
<popey> so can't use it at all
<daubers> Ah. *nix binary driver?
<popey> yes
<daubers> What kernel?
<popey> 3.2.0
<daubers> 12.04?
<popey> ya
<daubers> Wonder if a kernel change has broked it... they test upto 11.04
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/860235
 * daubers grabs and has a mooch
<daubers> Also, looking at a phone for work... don't want another galaxy s2 (too confusing) any opinions on the HTC sensation?
<daubers> popey: You running 64bit or 32bit?
<popey> 64
 * daubers install dkms
<daubers> popey: Did you pop them a support thing?
<popey> i emailed them
<daubers> ok
<popey> on the 23rd
<daubers> No reply at all?
<popey> nope
<daubers> Hmm....
<daubers> I'll ring them and harass them when their office opens
<popey> hence my donkey balls comment
<popey> but you shouldn't have to
<daubers> Heh, general comment on _everywhere_ is that if you want something done, use the telephone
<daubers> As when you email, it'll depend who's desk the email ends up
<czajkowski> today is a bacon sandwich day, which is usually only reserved for weekend treats, but due to emails at this hour of the morning, I need cheering up
<popey> daubers: gimmie their phone number and I will call them
<daubers> czajkowski: http://youtu.be/BhUZmvAEIN4 <- that'll cheer you up
<daubers> popey: +44 1565 830049
<popey> ta
<daubers> Office opens at 9
<MooDoo> hugs and prods to czajkowski as i've not done in awhile and davmor2 isn't here
<daubers> When I look at bike insurance costs, I often wonder why I own a car
<MooDoo> daubers: costs me about 300 ish a year fully comp
<daubers> MooDoo: Little commuter is Â£87 TFT
<daubers> MooDoo: Car is ~Â£700
<MooDoo> daubers: my bike is a 600cc
<popey> my car is ~300
 * daubers gets grumpy about old people who managed to get car insurance when it was sensibly priced
<MooDoo> daubers: my insurance goes down this year to as i'm 40 ;) lol
 * daubers shakes fist in a grumpy manner
<daubers> Old people have all the benefits. They had sensibly priced insurance, sensibly priced houses and managed to take advantage of things like the stock market before it broke
 * popey pokes aquarius with bug 942312
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 942312 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) "Cannot resolve proxy hostname " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942312
<aquarius> popey, that's a dobey thing, or a mandel thing, that
<popey> ok
<diplo> Morning all
<Mez> I know I connected to IRC for something ... but can't remember what...
 * christel cheers czajkowski up
 * MooDoo hugs christel just coz he can :D
<christel> wooo
 * christel hugs MooDoo 
<MooDoo> yay o/
<czajkowski> christel: <3
<czajkowski> christel: wanna see bday pics of cuteness
<MooDoo> czajkowski: do we really wanna see pics of you? ;) lol
<christel> haha
<christel> he loved rugby tots
<czajkowski> eh no
<czajkowski> christel: awww
<MooDoo> i asked my son if he liked rugby the other day while watching england, he said no it's boring, i feel so ashamed :S
<MooDoo> lol
<AlanBell> this is a thing that bastubis (Paula) is putting together -> http://www.flossie.org/?page_id=175
<christel> MooDoo: haha
<christel> MooDoo: i felt slightly mean taking him to rugby tots, they do 2-3.5 years, the other kids were like 3-3.5, he started the day before his second birthday
<christel> so he was TINY compared to the rest of them
<christel> he was a tad unsure to start with but then he got really into it
<MooDoo> christel: well he's only 3 lol
<MooDoo> l
<christel> his paternal grandfather used to play for pontyprydd(sp?) and rugby is huge on that side of the family
<christel> so i had no choice but to start him early as they've decided he's going to become an international (grandad has it all sussed out, he says that if he's really good he can play for wales, if he's not quite as good he can play for england and if he's really rubbish he can play for norway)
<christel> (it makes me giggle)
<bigcalm[xoom]> Good morning 1 and all
<czajkowski> christel: wales did very good at the weekend against england :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> that was a cracking game - best I have seen in ages.
<TheOpenSourcerer> England played really well for a new team but Wales deserved the win.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: see now why can't you be as gracious when ireland win :)
<christel> yeah, thank god -- we had the in-laws here and i feared they'd get divorced (i always do when england - wales play)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Isn't it obvious czajkowski?
<christel> how was your game in reading btw?
<czajkowski> christel: good fun
<czajkowski> winning till the last 2 mins literally
<TheOpenSourcerer> We are taking the kids to this: http://www.saracensatwembley.com/
<czajkowski> lotta messy ball playing but was nice
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: sweet
<czajkowski> shall be going back to ireland that day
<TheOpenSourcerer> Â£40 for the family :-D
<czajkowski> thats very good
<czajkowski> I do liek the fact that rugby gamves over here are pretty reasonable to go to tbh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - Â£15 adults, Â£5 kids. Via the school.
<czajkowski> bar the flipping international ones :/
<christel> nice
<diplo> bigcalm[xoom], Still broke then ? 12.47 didn't come to fruition ?
 * czajkowski wants tickets for ireland v engalnd on paddys day :(
<daubers> bigcalm[xoom]: time to change providers?
<mattt> yeeehaw
<mattt> czajkowski: oooh, that'll be a good game
<bigcalm[xoom]> diplo: this is the case. The service status page still says 12.47am today. They aren't very good at communicating to customers
<bigcalm[xoom]> daubers: na, it's just a bumb in the road I hope. Will wait it out but will still be moaning about it ;)
<diplo> heh I know bigcalm[xoom]
<diplo> Have you tried via twitter/mailing lists
<diplo> Used to be very active on ML's
<diplo> Level 2's
<daubers> bigcalm[xoom]: Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
<daubers> bigcalm[xoom]: VM have always been terrible (YMMV)
<popey> MMV
<daubers> It also seems to vary hugely on which cable provider used to be in your area before VM bought them
<bigcalm[xoom]> I've had a good service from them in general
<bigcalm[xoom]> Morning pope
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's a bloody good deal: www.somobile.co.uk/news/2012/02/28/htc-one-x-available-free-on-31-t-mobile-tariff/
<bigcalm[xoom]> Y
<bigcalm[xoom]> popey
<czajkowski> we've just handed in notice to VM and are leaving them
<TheOpenSourcerer> Think now I'm going to wait for the S III though.
<czajkowski> upping rates for no reason
<diplo> heh TheOpenSourcerer I'm thinking the same thing
<bigcalm[xoom]> Telewest here
<diplo> TW for me as well, overall they were always good
<daubers> I'm half tempted to get a windows phone for work
<daubers> just to see if they're any good
<TheOpenSourcerer> daubers: Did you see this? http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2012/02/skype-beta-for-windows-phone-arrives-but-it-shows-the-limits-of-the-platform.ars
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Yeah... they're still a bit behind
<TheOpenSourcerer> No multi-tasking for voip - so Skype is pretty broken.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bizarre.
<daubers> It's annoying that vodafone don't seem to have any phones with NFC in other than the Nexus
<bigcalm[xoom]|> It's still a new
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Tech
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Blah tablet keyboard. I should use the voice to text
<mattt> yikes, i just subscribed to VM :-/
<mattt> i thought the service so far has been good tho, the guy who installed the service gave me someone's mobile # to ring if we had any issues/questions
<mattt> thought that was kind of out htere
<gordonjcp> mattt: if it's an initial install quite often the engineer will give you one of his install team's mobile numbers in case there are problems with the install
<diplo> Doubt it works mattt  :)
<mattt> diplo: kinda had that feeling also :)
<mattt> gordonjcp: suppose so, guess i haven't had cable set up enough :)
<diplo> heh like the women who give out fake numbers
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, Going to use your new notes tonight for OpenERP on my home PC
<diplo> Will let you know how well they work :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have had almost 30 comments already.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Seems to work fine for most.
<diplo> Good, mine was working fine but want a clean install now I sort of understand it
<diplo> Going to make an image for these guys to play with at home
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<hoover> hi all
<brobostigon> hi hoover
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> where are $term entries stored?
<brobostigon> ie, the entries i get, when i run set in terminal.
<dwatkins> stored whilst the terminal is running, or read from when it starts, brobostigon?
<brobostigon> dwatkins: good question, i am getting an error with byobu, that asks me to edit $term, when i try and start it from connectbot.
<popey> that will be set by your terminal
<popey> connectbot in this case
<dwatkins> I thought it was in /etc/termcap or something like that, but I may be misunderstanding
<dwatkins> Is it not an uppercase $TERM?
<dwatkins> I had to set this up manually for my serial-connected WYSE 35 terminal a few years back, I just used 'termcap' iirc
<brobostigon> popey: ok, so it will be a setting in connectbot somewhere
<brobostigon> ??
<dwatkins> Perhaps 'terminfo' instead, but you shouldn't have to do that. What's the error, brobostigon?
<dwatkins> I tend to cheat and set TERM=linux screen -dr
<dwatkins> (because I connect to screen from inside screen and it doesn't understand the TERM setting it provides to itself, ironically)
<brobostigon> ERROR: Sessions should be nested with care. Remove 'screen' from $TERM to force.
<brobostigon> that is the error.
<HoaxKey> \join #latex
<dwatkins> sounds similar to what I get.
<HoaxKey> whoops
<popey> surely you're already in screen, trying to start screen
<popey> that seems not what you want
<dwatkins> popey: I run screen on my Mac, ssh to my ubuntu machine, and reconnect there.
<dwatkins> I also ssh to a BSD box and reconnect to a screen session there.
<czajkowski> is AlanBell alive? or have the chickens come home to roost
<dwatkins> hmmm, it doesn't seem to need my "TERM=linux" today, I wonder what changed.
<popey> dwatkins: i mean, brobostigon is inside screen and he's trying to re-attach to screen
<popey> which seems to not be what he wants
<brobostigon> byobu with screen, yes.
<dwatkins> ah yes, that does seem a little recursive ;)
<dwatkins> I've had nested screen sessions on the same machine before, though.
<czajkowski> bah poxy credit checks am gonna keep failing them for 2 more years so cant buy a phone on contract
<dwatkins> was someone at your address naughty, czajkowski? :-/
<MooDoo> czajkowski: pain in the ass that is isn't it :(
<bigcalm[xoom]> Note to self: tablet Internet connection will drop if you remove the phone from house
<DJones> bigcalm[xoom]: Stop working in the garden then
<s-fox> Hello.
<czajkowski> dwatkins: I'm not here three years
<czajkowski> doesnt matter about my address
<bigcalm[xoom]> DJones: I went to bring the wheely bin back to the house. Never know when you'll need your phone
<DJones> Hah
<bigcalm[xoom]> Mmmmm, that was a good pot noodle
<gord> i've never seen the words "good" and "Pot noodle" in the same sentence before... you must be sick, poor guy
<bigcalm[xoom]> :p
 * diplo agress with gord 
<mattt> czajkowski: when we moved to UK, my gf was able to get a contract w/ vodafone immediately, i wasn't
<mattt> neither of us had lved in UK before :-/
<bigcalm[xoom]> I add soya and tabasco sauce
<brobostigon> ok, weird, byobu -r -d, worked in connectbot.
<diplo> bigcalm[xoom], and that makes it better... it's still a pot noodle :D
<gord> bigcalm[xoom], buy a wok, boil up some noodles or rice, throw some veggies and meat in the wok, cook it up with some nice sauce, throw the noodles in, instant tasty food, takes about as long as a pot noodle too :P
<daubers> \o/ confused the estate agents
<bigcalm[xoom]> gord: far too much hassle
<AlanBell> czajkowski: yes, quite alive
<andyloughran> guys - anyone know of good alternatives to TinyMCE / CKEditor?
<andyloughran> pref Open Source (bien sur)
<andyloughran> big part would be the images side of things?
<andyloughran> man, quiet in here today?
<diplo> KCFinder andylockran
<diplo> oops
<andyloughran> :p
<diplo> andyloughran,
<andyloughran> is that not open source ?
<diplo> It is
<andyloughran> CKFinder _is_ open source?
<diplo> It's licensed, KCFinder is a rewrite of CKFinder because he didn't like the license
<diplo> sunhater.com or something i think
<andyloughran> merci
<diplo> This is from memory, not looked in a while :)
<diplo> We use kcfinder in our app, funnily enough working on it right this second
<oimon> can anyone convince me that 12.04 is worth trying to solve my performance problems for gnome shell / nvidia / 11.10 ?
<oimon> about to go back to 10.04
<davmor2> morning all, czajkowski prod!
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello ello
<czajkowski> https://twitter.com/#!/czajkowski/status/174447686420926464/photo/1
<AlanBell> oimon: I tend to thing forwards is a better direction than backwards
<oimon> AlanBell, define "forwards" :)
<oimon> linux is broken for me since 2011
 * popey notes a potential large performance boost in compiz in the pipeline
<AlanBell> so go to the latest release, and fix it
<AlanBell> or beyond the latest release as the case may be
<popey> https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/compiz-core/fix-940139/+merge/94728
<AlanBell> popey: on specific chipsets or in general?
<popey> "DOUBLED the CPU performance of compiz. "
<oimon> looks like unity has the same issues http://askubuntu.com/questions/78237/unity-3d-with-nvidia-driver-becomes-very-slow-and-laggy
<AlanBell> woah
<popey> indeed
<popey> this build of compiz should have it https://launchpad.net/~sil2100/+archive/ppa
<TheOpenSourcerer> andylockran: Have you seen http://aloha-editor.org/ before?
<popey> oimon: bug filed?
 * popey filed bug 942545 if anyone has five mins to test from a live stick I'd appreciate it
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 942545 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity leaves a scrollbar on screen if you unmounted a partition" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942545
<oimon> popey, yes i clicked "me too" but can't find it atm
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, I like the look of that, and you poked the wrong andyloughran
<TheOpenSourcerer> gah
<diplo> :D
<diplo> I did to before
<TheOpenSourcerer> andyloughran: Have you seen http://aloha-editor.org/ before?
<oimon> is the global menu "turn off" option coming to 12.04?
<andyloughran> TheOpenSourcerer:  I've not, thamnks
<popey> oimon: not sure yet
<oimon> aww.
<oimon> still hoping that it will move the buttons onto the app window for maximised apps
<popey> que?
<popey> the close/min/max buttons?
<popey> where would they go in the window?
<AlanBell> oimon: put your buttons back on the left!
<oimon> i've tried...i just hate the left buttons/global menu layout so much
<oimon> :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: Morning dude
<MooDoo> davmor2: ello laddo...
<daubers> You know sometimes you have one of those days? Should they last 2 weeks?
<andyloughran> yo
<davmor2> daubers: in your case you possibly deserved it who did you annoy ;)
<popey> chaps
<davmor2> popey: morning dude
<popey> this is an odd question.
<popey> is it possible to stop the clock on my laptop?
<popey> or slow it down dramatically
<popey> so it always says "12.04" for like an hour
<daubers> umm... why?
<popey> so i can record video and know it will always say that
<daubers> you could just put "date" into a while loop?
<daubers> Might break stuff that relies on the clock
<davmor2> popey: what happens to the clock if you open up clock setting and unlock it does it carry on as normal or does it stop where it is like a watch does?
<popey> it carries on
<daubers> popey: Be better to patch the clock widget thing :)
<popey> hah
<gord> argh
<gord> ubuntu one decided to lose my files
<davmor2> gord: blame aq
<czajkowski> gord: you're not having a good week are you
<daubers> popey: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/860402/
<daubers> popey: May break things that rely on the clock :)
<bigcalm[xoom]> Does u1 not have versioning?
<popey> no
<popey> haha daubers
<gord> ugh yeah it lost my entire .vim directory
<popey> have mine, it's empty already
<daubers> Hmm... might have broken my mqtt connections by faffing with the clock...
<popey> haha
<daubers> Also apparently it breaks ping :)
<davmor2> gord: you mean you have no backups, and has it actually wiped them from you system or just lost them online if it is the latter I'm pretty sure you can set it up to resync
<gord> davmor2, i had an old .vim directory inside ~/Ubuntu One/ - copied my new vim directory into it, it decided to sync over the old vim directory that contained almost nothing
<davmor2> gord: yes that's what it does you need to rename the file if you want more than one
<gord> davmor2, no, it should of synced the new directory into the cloud and replicated on my other machines
<daubers> Anybody know what the clock widget is actually called?
<gord> i didn't want more than one, i wanted it to replace the old with the new
<gord> daubers, indicator-datetime - its not a widget
<dwatkins> heh, Ubuntu just told me I have a good password ;)
<daubers> gord: Ta
<daubers> gord: Can't actually find the indicator in the source... am I looking in the wrong place? Found all the gumpf for the settings panel
<daubers> ah, hang on
<daubers> found it
<daubers> me being dumb again
<popey> i tried attaching to the indicator-datetime using gdb to pause it
<daubers> popey: Found a way to do it :)
<daubers> popey: Use gconf editor, goto com->canonical->datetime set custom-time-format to 12:04 andd time-format to custom
<daubers> and reberta is your transexual aunty
<daubers> s/reberta/roberta
<daubers> dconf-editor even
<daubers> and it doesn't even break the system clock \o/
<daubers> There's probably a way to do this using gsettings too
<popey> i dont have datetime in canonical
<popey> ahh, indicator
<daubers> If you put random text in the custom-time-format box that appears in there too :)
 * popey notes it's nearly 12.04
<daubers> It's been 12:04 for the last 4 minutes :p
<popey> mine didnt work
<popey> ahh, didnt set format to custom
<popey> brilliant!
<popey> thank you!
<daubers> Don't fprget to change it back, or you'll be late/early for everything
<popey> hah
<daubers> I do like the fact that my HDD is now the bottleneck with USB3
<directhex> ssd time!
<directhex> i have a new bin! \o/ o// \\o
<AlanBell> popey: perma-lunchtime
<popey> doubly so
<directhex> i have a box of wine boxes i can't use :(
<popey> i bought a USB3 to SATA converter. don't buy it, its broken â¹
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/TeckNet-2-5USB-SATA-Drive-Enclosure/dp/B000WP3GG8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330353401&sr=8-1  <- good
<daubers> I've got an icybox one
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Midte-External-Drive-Adapter-Cable/dp/B004LO59MK/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1330353299&sr=8-11  <- bad
<popey> link me up please!
<directhex> i've got sata ports on the back of my case
<directhex> and some molex power sockets
<daubers> Think it's this one... http://www.amazon.co.uk/IB-250StU3-BH-Enclosure-inch-12-5mm-Height/dp/B003XG08PA/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1330433610&sr=1-2
<daubers> hang on, I'll find the box :)
<daubers> It's an IB250 series
<daubers> It is that one
<daubers> part numbers match
<popey> does it have a USB 3 port?
<popey> doesnt look big enough
<daubers> It's got one of the long USB3 ports
<popey> did it come with a cable?
<daubers> Yup :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Connector_USB_3_IMGP6033_wp_.jpg <- It's one of those
<popey> golly
<popey> need one kinda pronto â¹
<daubers> Oh dear
<davmor2> hey bigcalm[xoom] sadtrombone.com on VM
<popey> ooo icybox is eligible for prime
<popey> winner
<popey> does it work in ubuntu daubers ?
<daubers> Umm... seems to be on my laptop :) Suppose it should do as long as your USB3 ports work
<daubers> It's just a mass storage majibber
<popey> no
<popey> i have discovered this today
<daubers> really?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/860459/
<popey> Feb 28 12:36:10 ubuntu kernel: [  438.138656] xhci_hcd 0000:0e:00.0: Timeout while waiting for address device command
<popey> not all usb enclosures are the same
<daubers> well, I'm currently copying stuff onto mine at ~ 80MB/s
<daubers> using ubuntu
<popey> which kernel?
<daubers> 3.2.0-17-generic
<popey> winner
<daubers> works with 12.5mm drives too, which is why I got it
<bigcalm[xoom]> davmor2: you've just noticed? ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: no I just had time to mention it as I've killed the thing I'm testing and now need to wait for the devs to fix it
<bigcalm[xoom]> Heh
 * popey wonders how long to cook his beef wellington
<davmor2> popey: long enough for it to be cooked
<AlanBell> popey has beef wellington, I have beans on toast
<gord> gord has nothing because the delivery man will show up the minute he leaves the house to get some grub
<brobostigon> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1507816 interesting, for those that use android.
<popey> meh
<popey> i have an iphone with siri and have yet to use it other than test it for amusement âº
<brobostigon> agreed, that it is,
<gord> i do use google voice search quite often
<gord> but that is mostly because i hate typing on touch screens
<ging> i tried evi on my s2
<ging> i asked it what oil i needed to top up a 2005 mini cooper S, it gave me an answer about losing weight
<brobostigon> lol
<ging> now they are threatening to remove evi from the apple app store because it's too similar to siri, which i guess means siri is also terrible
<gordonjcp> ging: to be fair if you lost weight the engine wouldn't have to work so hard and you'd get longer oil change intervals
<gordonjcp> depending on how much you weigh to begin with
<ging> the answer was something about being worried you are losing too much weight
<ging> told me maybe i have a medical condition
<ging> to be fair the correct answer did turn out to be stupidly complicated
<shauno> I hope our robot overlords have a little more tact than that.  "it's difficult to explain .. so have a veiled insult instead"
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: herrrrroo
<davmor2> czajkowski: stop trying to sound cute it doesn't suit you ;)  I'm down your way on the 6th
<czajkowski> of march?
<aquarius> directhex, I have 1.2. :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: yeap
<gord> oh, u1 lost a bunch of other files too
<czajkowski> davmor2: cool will be around
<directhex> aquarius, apparently they forgot to enable video call support in 1.2 for the n9, just the n950 @_@
<aquarius> directhex, doh. Good thing I don't use video calling
<Myrtti> aquarius: you got N9 then?
<aquarius> directhex, and annoyingly they've implemented HTML5 audio, but stupidly; it can't be controlled from JS, you just get a button which you can push to open the audio fullscreen like a video. Doh.
<aquarius> Myrtti, ya. Blog post on that subject is in preparation ;)
<Myrtti> oh dear :-P
<directhex> i plan on blogging the lumia 800 too
<Myrtti> I deny all responsibility
<AlanBell> love it when customers try to get technical
<AlanBell> "program form to fit smaller screens (600 x 800 dpi)"
<popey> wow, can i get one of those screen?
<bigcalm[xoom]> Aww bless
<popey> beef wellington was yummy btw
<czajkowski> oh that is one yummy dinner
 * czajkowski wonders if she can bribe the mothership to cook it when she's home in April 
<davmor2> czajkowski: what you doing at popey's
<czajkowski> beef wellington is a ymmy dinner
 * oimon received his jot stylus for capacitive touchscreen.
 * oimon sings happy birthday to himself
<MooDoo> your birthday oimon ?  Happy Birthday :D
<mattt> wewt, happy bday :D
<oimon> why thankyou sir
<oimon> s
<oimon> i haven't told the chaps in the office or they will try to make me drink beer
<oimon> i also discovered that applying a screen protector to a large surface such as a tablet is incredibly dificult
<davmor2> oimon: hippo birdies
<oimon> almost as old as popey :-S
<oimon> i get tired walking down stairs now, not just going up then
 * MooDoo is old in april...blimey that's close
<davmor2> oimon: no that's no old thats just idle :P
<diplo> Older than me, that's fine :)
<MooDoo> diplo: no one is older than you :p
<diplo> pfft
<MooDoo> diplo: saying that don't even know how old you are lol
<diplo> A mere young one, well that's what I keep telling myself
<diplo> A mere 35
 * oimon is older
<diplo> Well I was guessing that as I'm sure popey is older than me
<diplo> :)
<oimon> my benchmark when testing which generation someone is from , do you remember what you were doing during liveaid 1984?
<popey> Yes
<popey> I was watching it on telly âº
<diplo> Same here i think
<oimon> i was playing on my bike on a lovely summer day in the garden, and the concorde flew over the house
<popey> looking for my brother and sister in the crowd
<oimon> we had the telly on in the house and were listening throug the french doors
<popey> lol
<popey> you aged yourself there calling them "french" doors âº
<oimon> only time i ever saw concorde
<popey> i used to watch it take off most weeks. I worked in a building overlooking the runway
<oimon> took a strange route that day
<davmor2> oimon: well according to popeys wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis January 8, 1935  so popey is looking good for his age :D
<popey> we taught SAP courses, and the delegates would always ask to be on breat when it took off
<popey> http://g.co/maps/hwtmf  <- that window âº
<popey> *break
<davmor2> oimon: I remember
<davmor2> oimon: the real way to test is,  which doctor who did you grow up with
<oimon> yeah, tom baker + peter davison
<oimon> i remember when adric died, i was sad
<oimon> although my wife is far younger but her dad had them on video, so providing a skew
<DJones> Does Doctor Moreau count?
<davmor2> oimon: Tom Baker â Matt Smith,  I still think David Tennant was the best though
<MooDoo> +1 davmor2
<oimon> i saw empire strikes back at the cinema , and RotJ
<MooDoo> the first film i ever saw at the cinema was the last starfighter
<davmor2> oimon: I saw all 3
<oimon> :D
<davmor2> oimon: I just don't remeber the 1
<MooDoo> wow last starfighter - 1984
<davmor2> MooDoo: indeed
<MooDoo> i was 12 lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: along with war games
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah :) loved em
<oimon> first single i bought was ghostbusters
<MooDoo> oimon: SNAP!
<davmor2> oimon: first vinyl I got was the police reggatta de blanc
 * DJones still has the Ghostbusters album sat in a cupboard somewhere
<oimon> lost a load of rare singles during my parents house move
<MooDoo> my sons first cinema trip was to watch cars 2, and that was 2 weeks ago :D
<oimon> my boy thinks the imperial march is called the doggy song. he's gonna get a shock one day
<davmor2> oimon: first single was Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick
<oimon> ian dury
<davmor2> oimon: yeap,  then some abba, then some queen, then some dire straights and so on
<diplo> Oh god what have we started, come back to the future!
<diplo> :P
 * davmor2 remembers the start and the first video of MTV
<diplo> I'm bad enough for listening to 80's most of the time, don't want to drag you all back
<diplo> davmor2, me 2
<diplo> Start of MTV, not the video
<davmor2> diplo: Video Killed the Radio Star the buggles
<diplo> Not one of these with idetic(sp?) memorys ?
<DJones> What is the recommended way of installing google earth on 11.10, there's a package to build a debian package but that doesn't sound right, medibuntu or a precompiled deb from google.com
<bigcalm[xoom]> Wine ;)
<DJones> I try not to drink & compute :)
<bigcalm[xoom]> :)
<davmor2> diplo: I remember singles being 60-80p  before about 83-84 then they basically added a Â£1 to the font of it
<diplo> I think I only bought half a dozen singles ever, always have bought albums
<DJones> davmor2: I misread that and thought you were talking about single spirits being 60-80[ in 83/84 in pubs :)
<DJones> 60-80p
<davmor2> diplo: I didn't get lots of pocket money so it was singles till I was old enough for a paper round
<diplo> Funnily enough old man got all my 12" LP's out this weekend, got to get myself a usb record player at some point
<diplo> Got a lot of them on digital now, but some I haven't found
<diplo> Lot's of picture discs signed
<bigcalm[xoom]> Aldi has one for 30 quid atm
<diplo> ooh
 * diplo checks website
<diplo> ta
<davmor2> I also remember the video of the making of Thriller that got released in order that they had enough money to finish the thriller video
<diplo> Can't find on website
<AlanBell> DJones: google earth has .deb files, the ones from earth.google.com work fine
<DJones> AlanBell: Thanks, that was what I was going to suggest, but my wife has sorted it on her own
<AlanBell> my son was pestering me to install google earth, so I did, got it all set up and installed and ran it and he said it was the wrong thing and he wanted to put the little yellow man on the road to see our house
<AlanBell> what he wanted was maps with streetview, google earth does now zoom in to streetview which is quite cool
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Mine aren't there yet, just games at the mo
<directhex> we live in a world without mindmaze :(
<davmor2> I always used to get confused by the buzz of grangehill when you'd been at school all day why did you want to see a show about what had just happen earlier :D
<DJones> davmor2: Didn't you want to find out what Tucker had done and what he was going to get in trouble for
<davmor2> DJones: I watched it I just never got the hype it seemed to cause
<czajkowski> aww ant n dec!
<bigcalm[xoom]> Growing up in the country, I could never relate to that show
<gord> lets get ready ready...
<bigcalm[xoom]> czajkowski: are you thinking of biker grove?
<davmor2> why don't you, biker grooooooooooooovvve
<davmor2> thunder cats
<davmor2> battle of the planets
<DJones> He Man
<davmor2> she-ra
<diplo> Byker Grove* ( Spell it like the northerners )
 * daubers gets the bongos
<daubers> STAND BY FOR ACTION
<czajkowski> aww remember thundercats!
<bigcalm[xoom]> Semi good news, I can claim back for the time without internet. Once I get the connection again that is
<daubers> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E06cNv55jTs
<MooDoo> it's friday it's five to five....it's
<DJones> ...Time to go to the pub :)
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: that's how I ended up not having to pay them for about 6 months
<bigcalm[xoom]> It's Saturday, no school today, so what ya gonna do?
<diplo> czajkowski, Thundercats has been revived.. my kids love it
<davmor2> MooDoo:  CrackerJack
<diplo> New animation series
<czajkowski> diplo: ohh
<bigcalm[xoom]> davmor2: still not a good way to live
<czajkowski> bigcalm[xoom]: hasnt stopped you being on irc during the whole time either
<davmor2> czajkowski: thanks to 3g tech
<bigcalm[xoom]> czajkowski: priorities ;)
<davmor2> star fleet on a saturday morning
<davmor2> the other way to guess someones age is to ask what Chris Tarrent did before Who want to be a millionaire
<shauno> I'd just confuse you then, because I never watched telly as a kid
<DJones> Stingray, Thunderbirds, Space 1999, Fireball XL5 (mostly repeats.... Honest)
<DJones> Did anybody see that there were plans to "reimagine" Space 1999 with a new TV series
<davmor2> Joe 90, captain scarlet,
<bigcalm[xoom]> davmor2: tarrent on tv
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: yeah if the first one that springs to mind is Tis-Waz
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: same works for noel edmonds
<bigcalm[xoom]> davmor2: you are old :)
<shauno> so you're old if you actually owned the mr blobby xmas single? oh dear.
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: multi-coloured swap shop
<gord> oh... i didn't need to be reminded that mr blobby existed at one point...
<DJones> The other way of working out how old somebody is, is who were your Blue Peter presenters - Peter Purvess, John Noakes, Valerie Singleton & Shep the dog :)
<MooDoo> lol
<AlanBell> Goldie and Simon Groom and some others
<MooDoo> janet ellis
<AlanBell> Sarah Greene and Peter Duncan
<DJones> Did anybody ever build Tracey Island out of toilet roll tubes, crumpled paper and a pair of Val's old knickers?
<MooDoo> and then peter duncan was in flash gordon :D
<bigcalm[xoom]> AlanBell: same as me, odd
<davmor2> MooDoo: indeed as the initiate stung by the stump viper
<MooDoo> yup
<davmor2> MooDoo: and Timothy Daulton the original killer of Bond
<davmor2> I still remember the blue peter episode where they announced that Shep had died, Noakes was not a happy bunny
<davmor2> who remembers the Tripods, and Wuzzle Gummage
<diplo> o/
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Aye
<daubers> Captain Scarlet is the _worst_ superhero ever
<daubers> He couldn't solve a problem without dieing!
<daubers> "I'll save those people by throwing myself off a bridge!"
<daubers> Idiot
<bigcalm[xoom]|> But he can't die
<daubers> Yes he did! He just came back to life!
<daubers> I'm pretty certain if you threw him into the sun he wouldn't come back
<daubers> The guys in Joe 90 had the right idea, after all, children are expendable right?
<daubers> Once they've gone you can just make some more
<bigcalm[xoom]|> I'd feel sorry for the puppetier
<DJones> Tripods +1
<oimon> guys...i have no resize corner when using unity - any suggestios for packages i may have accidentally removed
<oimon> actually, may only be terminal application
<oimon> sorry..forget that..just a glitch ..restart terminal it works
<diplo> :P
<diplo> gn all, going to try and miss traffic
<davmor2> oimon: you sure it was there it's been changed to 6 pale dots now
<oimon> is this what OSD notifications should look like? http://i.imgur.com/lTq1H.png
<oimon> davmor2, i'm on 11.10
<popey> thats not unity
<oimon> popey, really?
<popey> âº
<oimon> i chose "ubuntu"
<oimon> maybe i've completely shagged my system
<popey> do you have a launcher on the left?
<oimon> yes
<popey> not sure what you've done to that then
<popey> why would you want two docks?
<DJones> I didn't think AWN was still around
<oimon> docky behaves like i want it to
<oimon> time for home
<oimon> i'll look at this again tomorrow then
<DJones> Is that docky, not AWN?
<oimon> yes
<popey> you have a dot in the top right of your window
<popey> there's some messed up desktop there
<popey> so yes, "Not unity"
<gord> that is unity
<gord> but its weirdly messed up
<popey> telnet miku.acm.uiuc.edu
<popey> sweet
<popey> gord will like that
<gord> popey, i guess we have to provide our own soundtrack? ;)
<popey> âº
<bigcalm[xoom]> Now I need a tlnet client for my Xoom
<bigcalm[xoom]> Telnet
<gord> apt-get update takes reeeeeeeeally long if you have 40kb/s
<davmor2> gord: apt-get update takes an age for me anyway
<gord> took longer to update than it did to upgrade even
<davmor2> gord: yeap that happens fairly often but don't forget I have a million and one ppas for it to work through
<gord> hrm, wonder what i have to bribe to get ubuntu to not use the minimum display brightness on startup
<opt1mus> gord: Just write your own script.
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Is it home time yet?
<brobostigon> yes.
<bigcalm[xoom]> Is it home time yet?
<brobostigon> yes.
<bigcalm[xoom]> \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm[xoom]> I'm building APIs for two seperate projects, my time sheet looks a little confusing
<s-fox> Goodbye.
<jacobw> evening
<opt1mus> Hello
<jacobw> hey dutchie
<jacobw> how are you opt1mus
<jacobw> jhey penguin_
<dutchie> hi jacobw
<dutchie> in a very greety mood tonight
<jacobw> how so?
 * AlanBell likes to see libreoffice updates
<gord> i hate them, adds another 200mb onto an update :P
<jacobw> my curent downstream is ~50kB/s
<jacobw> i don't libreoffice updates :(
<jacobw> +need
<AlanBell> I am waiting for the fix that means I can run it with libreoffice-gtk, someone broke it for big monitors
<MartijnVdS> I've removed LO
<MartijnVdS> I use Google Documents anyway
<MartijnVdS> and at work we have >100mbit
<MartijnVdS> (so libreoffice downloads aren't an issue)
<gord> i sometimes remove it, just because i might as well just re-install it when i need it rather than wasting my time with the upgrades
 * MartijnVdS loves the OpenWRT build system
<MartijnVdS> So self-contained!
<AppleJ> Or you guys could just deselect it on every upgrade :P
<MartijnVdS> So "just works"!
<directhex> atom zombie smasher!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ?!
<directhex> http://blendogames.com/atomzombiesmasher/
<MartijnVdS> directhex: some kind of tower defense?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, it's a bit too far past the boundaries of tower defense, IMHO, so let's just go with "strategy"
<MartijnVdS> So.. everyone has set their alarms for tomorrow morning?
<MartijnVdS> ( http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/716 )
<SuperEngineer> [that's when the Rasp Pi actually proposes to us all ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: WANTWANTWANT
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS:   me too :)
 * SuperEngineer gets ready to say "i do" to a Pi
<SuperEngineer> what a wonderful week - today a U-Uk podcast... &tomorrow a Raspberry?
<gord> 6am? i'd rather not get one!
<popey> \o/ UUPC in 30 mins âº
<MartijnVdS> popey: *\o/*
<MartijnVdS> popey: (and if you read that one on the show, "asterisk, backslash, o, slash, asterisk")
 * SuperEngineer "asterisk, backslash, o, slash, asterisk"'s the U-UK podcast
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<AlanBell> or "MartijnVdS  being a cheerleader with pompoms and a leotard on"
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<AlanBell> I may have made up the leotard bit, not quite sure where that came from
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: well my running clothes ARE skin-tight
<SuperEngineer> are the leotards compulsory this season - or just recommended?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: yes.
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS:  ;)
<AlanBell> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live/
<czajkowski> does it work for anyone in chrome ?
<AlanBell> not working for me in chromium, but works fine in firefox
<AlanBell> totem http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org:8000/uupc.mp3 also works
<mempoke> bleep
<MartijnVdS> ye olde timey musicke
<mempoke> well this might be fun
<mempoke> working with computer for quite a while but never used irc
<mempoke> anyone there?
<MartijnVdS> \o
<TheOpenSourcerer> evening all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mux D appears to have dropped off the Freeview transmitter at Midhurst...
<brobostigon> good evening TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> hey brobostigon how's it going?
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: generally ok, other than some of my bones in my left heel being inflamed, and you?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good thanks.
<brobostigon> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> pingly pingly peep christel
<Azelphur> Did anything ever come out to replace ksplice since it's dead now?
<AlanBell> ksplice isn't dead, it got oracled
<shauno> a fate worse than death :/
<AlanBell> TV related hack day thing http://rewiredstate.org/events/boat-hack-at-mipcube-2012
<Azelphur> AlanBell: it is dead, you can't sign up any more
<AlanBell> I wonder if popey is going to this http://www.mipworld.com/en/mipcube/
<AlanBell> Azelphur: even if you have RHEL?
<Azelphur> AlanBell: I dunno, I don't have RHEL obviously
<AlanBell> I am not surprised at them dropping the free Ubuntu/Fedora updates
<Azelphur> hense the desire for alternatives
<AlanBell> http://www.ksplice.com/uptrack/download-ubuntu don't you just download the .deb and run it?
<Azelphur> no, that's desktop only, if you want server kernels you have to subscribe, which is now blocked
<Azelphur> only way to get ksplice is to install a desktop environment and switch to desktop kernel on a server :/
<AlanBell> oh right, well do that then :)
<Azelphur> that's not really an option on a server :/
<AlanBell> desktop kernel is *fine* for most server workloads
<Azelphur> I don't want a full desktop environment and X on my server
<AlanBell> you don't need it, just install the kernel, it shouldn't bring in any X stuff
<Azelphur> no, you have to run the desktop updater which requires X
<Azelphur> you have to pay for the command line updater
<AlanBell> ssh -X
<Azelphur> only, you can't pay because they shut it down
<Azelphur> I'm pretty sure that installing the desktop updater will pull in all the reqs too
<AlanBell> probably some of them, but they won't be running
<Azelphur> *shrug* might work, a lot of effort for a project that is rapidly dieing though, still interested in alternatives
<directhex> aquarius, "touch /etc/call-ui/callUIVideoButton" and reboot adds video call support
<AlanBell> Azelphur: fair enough
<AlanBell> I thought that after a few years of ksplice coming out that someone would put rebootless updates into the upstream kernel
<Azelphur> yea, it's a bit silly after all this time that the server distros don't have rebootless updating built in
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Ubuntu Global Jam  Limerick - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/02/28/ubuntu-global-jam-limerick/
<aquarius> directhex, interesting. Not sure what I'd use video calling for, though; who can it call?
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<directhex> aquarius, not other n9's, since it doesn't advertise video call capability :p
<aquarius> directhex, the only person I know with an n9... doesn't have one any more ;)
<DaveMorris> I use a squeezebox slave on my machine, which I've created a small upstart script for. I wish to run it as a user ('squeezebox') but it won't play audio since it isn't the current user logged in.  Any ideas on where to look to change it?
<DaveMorris> looks like I can't (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Audio/TheAudioGroup) and need to run it as my user
<ujjain> I am supposed to complete 3 sentences with the same word... it seems impossible: "like all great oopera singers,pavarotti had an imposing ...", "She showed great ... of mind and led the children calmly downstairs to safety", "There was a huge police ... at the football match".
<shauno> presence.  enjoy your homework :)
<ujjain> ah thanks!
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-29
<directhex> good lord i hate adding javascript to web pages
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Improving Accomplishments Documentation - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/29/improving-accomplishments-documentation/
<Azelphur> ali1234: you awake? :P
<czajkowski> I am and not hapy about it
<shauno> Azelphur, any other day I'd laugh at you, but the 'pi' is coming on sale in an hour, so ..
<Azelphur> haha
<shauno> (at least, I hope that's why I'm awake,  they didn't exactly spell it out, but they came real close)
<sagaci> so I'm guessing it'll be like going on ticketek before the sale of a big concert
<ali1234> the website is already down lol
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> ali1234: is it easy to talk to a PCI device?
<ali1234> sure
<Azelphur> could I do it in snakes?
<ali1234> i would a use computer
<ali1234> snakes are too bitey
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> Python :P
<MartijnVdS> Aaand raspberrypi.org is down :)
<ali1234> of course it is. their website can't even handle normal load
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: they said they'd switch to a static page instead of the blog
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: static pages have a lot less overhead
<Azelphur> ali1234: but yea, my friend is interested in making a miner that sits on PCIE and I want to talk to it in a nutshell, suggestions? :P
<ali1234> use USB instead
<Azelphur> main reasons why? :)
 * Azelphur is attempting to learn things \o/
<ali1234> cheaper development costs, easier to make drivers, less likely to catch fire
<Azelphur> fair enough :D
<Azelphur> all good things for me haha
<shauno> it looks like they managed to take our farnell's site in the process :/
<ali1234> nah farnell goes down all the time outside working hours
<shauno> oh, fair enough
<Azelphur> I got through they switched to a static html site
<ali1234> "go and search rs or farnell"
<MartijnVdS> which are both down now :)
<ali1234> rs isn't down, but they won't actually sell you one
<ali1234> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisplay.html?id=raspberrypi
<MartijnVdS> no farnell is down
<ali1234> yeah, farnell's website is almost as bad as raspberrypi.org
<MartijnVdS> .. at the best of times
<Oli> Argl this is like pulling teeth.
<Oli> Anyone found the right RS page yet?
<diplo> Nope
<diplo> Twitter just mentioned a redirect
<diplo> Isn't thissad
<diplo> :/
<diplo> I'd ordered one on farnell, and then the page went
 * diplo debates going back to sleep
<ali1234> RS are a huge bunch of jerks anyway
<ali1234> afaik they won't even talk to you unless you have a VAT number
<ali1234> and don't farnell have a Â£30 minimum order?
<diplo> Not used either in a few years
<diplo> Just got order page
<diplo> and then connection reset :(
<diplo> I really cba with this
<shauno> you got an order page?  I got a "you want one?  give us your email address"
<ali1234> that's because you went to RS and RS suck
<MartijnVdS> Oh well, I'll wait for the second batch then
<MartijnVdS> when the sites aren't down
<AlanBell> morning
 * AlanBell looks at lots of down websites and goes back to bed
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Farnell have sold out according to twitter
<AlanBell> #rasberrypi is going a bit fast, it is like #ubuntu inthere
<diplo> that was the one i sorta got working
<diplo> Wonder if this is why they did 6am, so the takedown was before work hours :)
<diplo> Our websites are currently unavailable whilst we perform a scheduled system upgrade.
<diplo> Every effort has been made to minimise the impact of this event and we apologise for any inconvenience this has caused.
<diplo> @Farnell :D
<MartijnVdS> Yeah, "oops"
<MartijnVdS> It's like the RPi people said "Hey, Farnell, you need to be able to handle a LOT of requests."
<MartijnVdS> and Farnell "Sure, whatever."
<ali1234> hey, on the bright side, farnell might fix their website
<diplo> That's a big ask ali1234 :)
<diplo> https://twitter.com/#!/FarnellNews
 * MartijnVdS really needs to go to work
<diplo> :D
<Oli> Well they were idiots not to expect this. They've known that they've had millions of visitors on their website over the past few months - they should have set up some sort of lottery pre-order system to handle this. I just feel sorry for people who rely on RS and Farnell to get work done.
<ali1234> yep
<diplo> I used them most days in my last job
<diplo> Well battery is about to give up, so guess that means me giving up as well
<ali1234> "Initially the Â£22 model of the Pi, which includes wifi, will be offered for sale. "
<ali1234> bbc doesn't know the difference between wifi and ethernet
<diplo> :_
<diplo> :)
<diplo> I find it a bit worrying about some news stories
<diplo> lol farnell loaded again
<diplo> and then promptly died
<diplo> :D
<ali1234> also "teaching people to programme."
<ali1234> as in, like, scheduling tv shows?
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Right, well more warnings for battery, so 2 mins and i think i'll be dead..
<diplo> wait for work then
<dwatkins> has anyone managed to get anything but failure from RS or Farnell's websites?
<ali1234> no
<Oli> Damnit. RS loaded again but they're *still* only showing the register interest page >_<
<Oli> Y YOO NO LERN?!
<Oli> I feel like today is going to be a grumpy day.
<popey> haha, trending on twitter... raspberry pi, rs and farnell âº
<diplo> :P
<popey> bzoltan: /join #ubuntu
<popey> bah!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pi just discussed on R4 Today.
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: sites now a static page due to high traffic so i can't get one :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah - lol
<MooDoo> rs aren't available and farnell site is down
<ali1234> farnll sold out an hour ago
<TheOpenSourcerer> Reminds me of the HP Touchpad firesale but for much better reasons.
<popey> told my daughter to go to school and ask the ICT teacher about them âº
<MooDoo> popey: ready for a "say what?" response
<ali1234> "linux is a virus"
<ali1234> you can expect the entrenched microsoft resellers to step up this FUD
<popey> I gave her enough information that she can explain it to him âº
<ali1234> "the raspberry pi is a circuit board with no software included"
<popey> I also told her how much it costs and she said "I have enough saved pocket money to buy one!"
<ali1234> - bbc 6 music lol
<popey> i said she could write programs on it
<popey> "Like minecraft?"
<ali1234> ICT teachers don't take kindly to having things explained to them
<popey> true
<popey> this guy is actually alright
<popey> he's not some old crusty with no idea, he gets the kids quite excited about computers
<ali1234> minecraft on rpi? bwahahahahaha
<popey> âº
<ali1234> maybe if they make a 4GB version
<ali1234> the mer project guy had to patch the libegl just to make Qt work properly on it
<TheOpenSourcerer> What can I get my Dad for his birthday? He'll be 85 tomorrow.
<diplo> Beer/Whiskey
<ali1234> (or any standard egl+x11 software for that matter)
<diplo> That's all I ever get asked for my dad :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Been there done that :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> He now has enough Scotch for quite a while.
<diplo> My gran says never have got enough scotch
<diplo> All we ever buy her now
<diplo> 96
<diplo> Glaswegian, reckon shes been drinking it since a young lassy
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: Just suggested a Raspberry Pi to me on Twitter ;-p
<diplo> Guess none of you had any luck
<DJones> And the custard/cream
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: pong (somewhat delayed, passed out at 9pm)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi christel no worries.
<TheOpenSourcerer> can I pm you?
<christel> of course :)
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: looks like people are struggling to get one at the moment
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: Yep - RS and Farnell died under the weight.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Apparently Farnell sold out in 7 minutes
<MooDoo> amazing
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - can't believe some peeps are apparently getting angry about it. I think that's great.
<diplo> Still seeing people getting orders on farnell in #raspberrypi though
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just think of the number of peeps' hands this will ultimately get Linux into. And they will know it is Linux, rather than a phone or STB
<diplo> So not sure
<popey> i got one in my basket 2 mins ago
<popey> but it's pre-order, they have run out
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm at a page where I can still "add to basket" but the next step is #fail
<popey> yeah, their https server is borked
<diplo> I had add to basket and clicked it at 6:04 :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - got to the basket :-)
<diplo> It stuck there until it timed out
<diplo> So won't bother now until later and just back order
<TheOpenSourcerer> Although I'm quite interested in the Pi package, with kbd etc.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Will probably wait a few days I think.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Going through checkout. I have an account with Farnell already for some the Nanode stuff I bough before.
<popey> \o/ ordered two
<popey> "An email has been sent confirming the order you have just placed. "
<TheOpenSourcerer> W00t! Order placed.
<AlanBell> from which store?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Email appeared straight away.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Farnell
<AlanBell> is it a pre-order?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well it's an order.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But they are awaiting stock.
 * AlanBell has one in the basket, every other page refresh is not working
<TheOpenSourcerer> They have my card details and have authorised the sale
<christel> have any of you guys tried letting your kids play around with conductive dough? (squishy circuits) -- i ordered some bits and pieces and thought i'd see if the boy wonder would enjoy it (http://courseweb.stthomas.edu/apthomas/SquishyCircuits/)
<christel> mind, your kids may be a bit too old, i dunno
<TheOpenSourcerer> And have confirmed my order by email.
<DJones> I wonder how many on this model have already ended up on ebay at inflated prices with a promise to send them out when delivered to the original buyer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ha that looks like fun
<diplo> Nope christel , taking a look now ( 4 and 5 year olds so maybe to young ? )
<christel> the boy is only 2! 4 and 5 may be a good (better) age actually
<christel> (i suspect it will be more fun for me than him at this stage perhaps)
<christel> yeah, i thought it was a grand idea
<diplo> oh :)
<diplo> Looks really good
<christel> it takes the playdough of my childhood to a totally different level :s
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's really cool christel - great video. But you can make the playdough yourself.
<diplo> you bought anything yet ?
<christel> yeah, i've ordered some of their circuit stuff, intending to make the playdough at home
<christel> (it hasnt arrived mind)
<diplo> Interested to see how it works out for you, also interested in what parts you ordered
<TheOpenSourcerer> Somewhere like Farnell, or the nanode/arduino shops would be pretty good for components.
<christel> i bought their "starter kit" (http://squishycircuitsstore.com/kits.html) -- i think i may (if it is a success) just buy components elsewhere mind
<christel> yeah
<diplo> Maybe not from Farnell today TheOpenSourcerer :D
<christel> hehe
<AlanBell> at the back of maplins they have lots of interesting components in little bags, you can get a load of assorted LEDs and other things
<christel> oooh
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: https://twitter.com/#!/Raspberry_Pi/status/174778870082441216
<christel> perhaps i need to nip into maplins and have a poke
<diplo> Good thinking, reckon that will work ok with this stuff
<christel> AlanBell: when/where is the next happy hour? :x
<czajkowski> aloha
<christel> hello prettylaura
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<czajkowski> hello my lovely christel
<MooDoo> christel: how very dare you.....gorgeous is the word your looking for
<christel> hello gorgeous MooDoo ;)
<MooDoo> christel: i love you
 * DJones checks the date to see if he's gone back in time to 14th Feb
<christel> i love you too!
<ali1234> don't buy those maplins assortments
<christel> DJones: haha
<christel> ali1234: are they rubbish?
<ali1234> you can never figure out what the things are, so you can't use half of it
<christel> hahaha
<ali1234> LEDs without datasheet = burned LED
<ali1234> they are ok when it's stuff that is marked like resistors and capacitors
<christel> hehe
<christel> yeah i can see how that could be problematic
 * heeed give evils at popey 
<popey> heh
<heeed> >:D
<heeed> theres me right from the start trying to get a pi and you just saunter up and order two
<heeed> :D
<MooDoo> how'd you get two popey ?
 * TheOpenSourcerer ordered 2 too (I have two kids)
<MooDoo> i thought it was only one per customer?
<heeed> any links for the actual secret page we were not told about?
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: I think that was before they decided to use RS & Farnell to do the distribution/logistics
<MooDoo> ah
<TheOpenSourcerer> Shame Google didn't do a Raspberry Pi graphic rather than Gioachino Rossini
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, nah Raspberrys twitter page saying they expressly said that it should be 1 per customer
<diplo> to RS/Farnell
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well, Farnell took my order.
<ali1234> yeah, but unless you ordered before about 6:01am you won't be getting them from the first batch
<TheOpenSourcerer> I know that.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It clearly said out of stock.
<ali1234> and nobody has ever said it would be !one per customer forever"
<diplo> I tried @ 5:55 onwards, failed :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - here's a cheery piece about how the Earth is doomed: http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2012/02/getting-ready-for-the-end-of-growth-on-earth.ars
<diplo> I agree with them tbh TheOpenSourcerer , not that I am some one who can even think that I know what I am talking about
<diplo> But I 'feel' the same way
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yep, me too. We're totally fscked if we just carry on regardless.
<JamesTait> Happy Leap Day, everyone! :D
<bigcalm[xoom]> Good morning peeps :)
<DJones> Still mobile I see bigcalm[xoom]
<bigcalm[xoom]> Aye
<daubers> Morning
<KrisDouglas> Morning all. I am having an issue with SSH from our broadband line here. When I connect to a server and run "ls" the connection drops. SSH works fine from anywhere other than here.
<ali1234> check your MTU and packet fragmentation settings on router
<ali1234> see http://www.snailbook.com/faq/mtu-mismatch.auto.html
<oimon> what's the best way to refresh my unity setup without reinstalling ubuntu? (i have a working gnome-shell setup i want to keep)
<KrisDouglas> thanks ali1234
<daubers> so does anyone have any idea who Michael Rockman is?
<ali1234> context?
<DJones> Candian tennis player?
<daubers> Appears as a quoted "tchinology jounralist"  on http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17192823
<daubers> urgh//// slow interwebs is slow
<daubers> technology journalist even
<daubers> the only relevant result I get for him is that article.....
<ali1234> oh, the only person they could find who didn't like it
<daubers> yeah... bit I have no idea who he is :)
<daubers> I htink they mean "Simon Rockman" from ZDNet
<ali1234> that or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mega_Man_%28character%29
<oimon> ah, fixed my osd notify issues by starting notify-osd daemon :D
<oimon> popey, that dot in the right hand corner of my windows...i put that there
<popey> hah
<oimon> it's a cute way of putting windows on different workspaces
<oimon> although right mouse button does the same thing...it's nice to have a target
<oimon> while i try to learn left sided buttons
<oimon> performance of unity seems better than gnome shell by a fair distance
<oimon> in 11.10
<ali1234> :O
<ali1234> for me it is much slower
<oimon> in my experience
<oimon> i have nvidia dual screen...gnome shell hates it
<ali1234> so do i
<ali1234> unity can't go above 17 fps here
<oimon>  nVidia Corporation G86 [Quadro NVS 290]
<oimon> ali1234, how do i check
<oimon> fps
<ali1234> some compiz plugin
<gord> yeah that plugin isn't a good measure
<ali1234> i can tell the framerate by just looking
<oimon> ali1234, i had to restart gnome shell many times per day becuase xorg was 100% cpu
<gord> i get 60+ fps on all my machines
<oimon> ali1234, which nividia card?
<ali1234> GT 240
 * AlanBell wonders how to tell the framerate
<gord> AlanBell, there aren't any reliable utilities for that
<oimon> ali1234, i'm getting 60fps
<AlanBell> well from where are people plucking these figures?
<ali1234> AlanBell: just grab a fairly large window and move it about. if it's completely smooth => 60 fps. if it is a bit juddery but doesnn't lag => 30 fps and if it is laggy and extremely juddery => 15fps
<oimon> compiz extras plugin from sw center
<gord> either you get one that forces a new frame constantly, which is cheating, not a good statistic, or you try and measure real framerates which doesn't work because unity will render variable framerates, only drawing a new frame if its needed
<AlanBell> oimon: specifically which one?
<gord> ali1234, no, thats not good
<ali1234> it's fine
<ali1234> i don't care if unity can do 60fps when no windows are being updated
<ali1234> *that* is cheating
<oimon> AlanBell, benchmark,
<gord> no its not, its not measuring framerate, rather compiz's communication with X
<oimon> ali1234, when i move a window it goes up to 70fps
<bigcalm[xoom]> Use minecraft?
<gord> there is a long standing issue with compiz moving windows as its tries to keep X synchronized, which causes the movement to look jittery
<ali1234> framerate = how fast can you redraw the whole frame
<ali1234> not how fast you can flip unchanged buffers
<oimon> this whole desktop hopping is making me sad
<gord> no. framerate = how many frames you can present in a second
<AlanBell> ok, benchmark seems to go up to 30fps
<gord> redraw time = how fast you can redraw a frame
<ali1234> ok then. let me put it this way: unity redraw time sucks, and i don't care about "framerate"
<oimon> ali1234, 11.10 or other?
<ali1234> 11.10
<ali1234> 12.04 has a large number of fixes
<oimon> seems to be quite a variation among gfx cards then
<oimon> i am experiencing complete opposite issues
<oimon> although gnome shell is quite fast for first hour
<oimon> it is unusable after a while
<ali1234> on 11.10, fr me, unity is "fast" (ie 30fps) for the first hour, then gets slower and slower until dragging a window takes 5 seconds or so to redraw the screen
<ali1234> i've never used gnome-shell long enough to encounter any problems, but it is faster right from the start here
<oimon> ali1234, i'll report back in an houe
<oimon> i tend to login and think, hey this is workable..
<oimon> then later that week/day i hate it
<ali1234> you could always use fallback mode
<oimon> it's not gnome2 tho
<ali1234> it pretty much is actually
<ali1234> in 12.04 it is anyway
<oimon> oh ok
<oimon> i'm on my prod work box atm
<ali1234> you can even add all the old panel applets... because it's just gnome-panel
<ali1234> and it is incredibly fast
<oimon> ali1234, that makes me happy - does it run compiz?
<ali1234> and by "incredibly fast" i mean it's as fast as gnome 2 used to be
<oimon> that is promising
<ali1234> it runs compiz if you want it to i suppose
<ali1234> metacity by default though
<oimon> i thought 12.04 was dropping fallback
<ali1234> it's called "gnome classic" now
<ali1234> maybe it isn't installed by default... idk
<ali1234> you might need to install gnome-shell to get it
<ali1234> "ubuntu classic" is what was dropped
<ali1234> gnome-session-fallback is the package you need
<s-fox> o/
<MooDoo> hi s-fox x
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo
<s-fox> How are you ?
<MooDoo> s-fox: faboo thanks
<s-fox> Good MooDoo :)
<DJones> Hmmh, I need to look for a PCIe x16 graphics card with dual screen output for a Win 7 machine and is reasonably priced
<phpstud> Hi, I'm using Ubuntu Desktop version and I love it!
<TheOpenSourcerer> RASPBERRY PI, MODEL Qty Ordered 1 Qty to Follow 1 Estimated Delivery W/C 26/03/2012 :-)
<gord> DJones, doing anything interesting with it? games or 3d modelling or whatever?
<s-fox> TheOpenSourcerer,  Where did you order one from?
<TheOpenSourcerer> farnell s-fox
<DJones> gord: No, just lack of screen space on 1920x900 monitor, I need to have some constantly updating data on screen all the time (exchange rates etc), but a web client & bank software takes up a fair chunk of screen
<MooDoo> sold out in 7 mins at farnell :D
<Oli> I think most of the stock went on their lower-trafficked sites because the UK site crumbled after about 4 minutes.
<s-fox> I did wonder how long the sites would stay up ;)
<oimon> why does everyone want rpi on first day?
<s-fox> I registered interest on rs-online, but no email about placing an order as of yet :/
<oimon> hoepfully the spec will improve during the year ;D
<gord> DJones, an nvidia 200 series gpu should do you fine then, just look on ebuyer to find one with at least two outputs, most do
<gord> DJones, about 30 quid
<Oli> Not long enough for me to click the Add button (ajax crashed) and that was at 6:04. Couldn't refresh after that :(
<DJones> gord: Thanks, thats the sort of price I was looking at
<Oli> For a few more pounds you can stick three monitors on a AMD 5450
<Oli> And I do just mean a few, Ebuyer have one for Â£23.50
<DJones> Nice
<Oli> And on paper, the 5450 uses less power and has better performance
<Oli> http://www.hwcompare.com/376/geforce-gt-210-vs-radeon-hd-5450/
<Oli> (than the 210, budget nvidia card)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<daubers> ping popey
<daubers> popey: Error establishing a database connection <- from uupc site
<Oli> brobostigon: Is it? Is it really?
<popey> bah
<brobostigon> Oli: yes.
<Oli> I saw the crack of DOOM this morning as I crawled out of bed at 10 to 6 to buy a RasPi and here I am, hours later, with no RasPi in sight.
<MooDoo> Oli: same as rest of us.
 * Oli grumbles his way off to make an espresso 
<davmor2> morning funksters
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]|: still no vm
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!!!!!!!
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Correct
<czajkowski> davmor2: good morning
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: how's life up north
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]|: :(
<MooDoo> davmor2: not bad lad :) at work slaving away at the moment lol
<daubers> uhh... popey, you might have a bigger problem :) ubuntu-uk.org isn't responding either :)
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]|: if you lived closer I'd say come and borrow some of mine, but if you lived closer I'd of been hit by it too me thinks
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Heh
<popey> better now
<richardperkins> Morning all, hope you are well, its my first time here
<czajkowski> richardperkins: welcome ;)
<czajkowski> lot more people in here who can help you
<zleap> hello richardperkins welcome
<richardperkins> Cheers czajkowski
<daubers> popey: \o/
<MooDoo> richardperkins: welcome, ready for the initiation?
<MooDoo> ;)
<richardperkins> finally got rid of the windows safety net
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Unity is the best choice for the future of Ubuntu - http://popey.com/blog/2012/02/29/unity-is-the-best-choice-for-the-future-of-ubuntu/
<MooDoo> richardperkins: fab :) how you finding it?
<zleap> richardperkins, yay
<richardperkins> its really good
<zleap> ;)
<yossarianuk> good on you - You can stop funding a patent troll that uses your money to lobby governments in support of PIPA/ACTA.
<richardperkins>  i had a play with a few distros and environments and found ubuntu 11.10 and gnome 3 suits me
<yossarianuk> (they get you tax money anyway...........)
<yossarianuk> cool - I prefer gnome3 to unity
<richardperkins> also new to irc
<yossarianuk> I think KDE4 is the best personally (but not on any debian based system)
<richardperkins> i tried unity and liked it but gnome 3 just struck a not
<richardperkins> what disto is KDE4 on?
<MooDoo> richardperkins: irc is fun, we're a friendly bunch, if you have any questions just ask....watch out for davmor2 he'll give you grief ;)
<yossarianuk> it is in ubuntu (kubuntu at least) - however if you want a 'good' version of KDE4 I would choose opensuse/mandriva or fedora
<richardperkins> OK thanks for the heads up
<yossarianuk> just my 2 cents...
<richardperkins> cool
<daubers> !best
<lubotu3> Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.
<daubers> :)
<MooDoo> daubers: smart ass ;)
<richardperkins> Work recently sent me on a red hat admin course so i looked at fedora
<richardperkins> but i had problems configuring citrix and vpnc using pcf files
<yossarianuk> Fedora is nice however not freindly for newbies ...
<yossarianuk> I have always thought suse + mandriva were the most friendly as they have a central control panel to managed to whole OS
<richardperkins> mandrake was a distro i tried many years ago and liked but ubuntu seems to be a well supported distro and easier for newer users to get around
<richardperkins> anyone use wireless broadcom devices in a laptop?
<yossarianuk> ubunutu is designed to be easy - I have always thought they should have build a central control panel though...
<yossarianuk> what model?
<richardperkins> thats the only issue i have
<richardperkins> bcm 4300
<yossarianuk> (have you looked under 'hardware drivers'?
<richardperkins> its an older laptop that works a treat with ubuntu
<yossarianuk> richardperkins - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx
<yossarianuk> +
<yossarianuk> http://www.computerandyou.net/2011/05/how-to-solve-no-wireless-networks-in-ubuntu-11-04/
<richardperkins> it was found under additional drivers and works but occasionally crashes any wireless router im connected to
<yossarianuk> ah
<yossarianuk> The best suggestion may be to try wireless backports or try a newer version of ubuntu
<yossarianuk> 12.04 is out in about 7 weeks.
<richardperkins> sorry for my ignorance but whats a backport?
<richardperkins> wired is fine even when connected to the same router
<yossarianuk> sorry - they backport newer drivers to older version of ubuntu
<richardperkins> cool understood
<zleap> anyone tried getting a raspberry PI yet
<yossarianuk> Perhaps read - http://www.computerandyou.net/2011/05/how-to-solve-no-wireless-networks-in-ubuntu-11-04/
<richardperkins> actually it only crashes when using vpnc over wireless
<s-fox> TheOpenSourcerer,  I managed to place an order on farnell :D
<yossarianuk> cool - the first British made computer for a while....
<diplo> s-fox, I gave up.. been trying since 6am
<diplo> zleap, yep ^^
<yossarianuk> I used to own a dragon32 in the 80's.
<s-fox> diplo, I have been trying since 9am(ish) uk time
 * diplo just wants to go home to bed
<diplo> I still can't get on there website, let a lone order one! :(
<s-fox> diplo,  :(
<MooDoo> diplo: just got on their site, pre-orders stock available in 30 days
<MooDoo> pah now it's down again
<popey> zleap: yes, ordered two, should arrive mid-april âº
<zleap> cool
<daubers> popey: Did you get yours from rs or cpc?
<popey> farnell
<zleap> ah
<zleap> the rs site is still giving a register interest page
<popey> yeah, they're selling theirs on friday apparently
<zleap> ok
<KrisDouglas> Farnell's website seems to be diing
<zleap> so if I order one, and its out of stock what happesn my order stays active till they can process the order
<popey> yes
<popey> i just got a note to say mine will be here 16/04]
<zleap> ok
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: "RASPBERRY PI, MODEL Qty Ordered 1 Qty to Follow 1 Estimated Delivery W/C 26/03/2012"
<popey> heh
<zleap> sounds like they are going to really ramp up orders
<popey> thats what mine side
<popey> *said
<zleap> and production
<popey> then I got a PDF a few mins later
<zleap> i may wait a few days till the initial rush dies down tben order one
<zleap> well wait till tomorrow at least
<s-fox> My order status is "processing"
<s-fox> I guess it arrives when it arrives
<zleap> what sort of PSU  thing is needed,   could do with a model number etc so I can get one now  ready for when i get a rasp PI
<diplo> zleap, USB Phone charger
<diplo> 5v and at least 700ma
<zleap> ok
<diplo> Microusb
<zleap> hmm camera charget is 4,4 v @ 400ma
<zleap> so a similar device at the right voltage / current
<diplo> Smart phone chargers are mostly 5v/1a that we have in this office, so that sort of thing yeah
<oimon> guys, does visual bell on unity show a white screen for long time? mine does
<oimon> (in a terminal)
<zleap> ok will try and find something
<zleap> if anyone has suggestions can they perhaps post a message to the list, it may benefit others
<zleap> please
<diplo> zleap, Something like these http://www.amazon.co.uk/tag/usb%20charger/products
<zleap> diplo, thanks i just need to find the one with the right spec
<diplo> First one would do it, just need a cable after that
<diplo> Can get all in one units as well
<aquarius> popey, ping: the play in ogg popup link on the latest uupc doesn't work, for me. play in mp3 popup link works fine
<popey> bah
<gord> did you guys setup an u1 uupc share yet so all the latest episodes can just be synced into my computer yet? because you totally should ;)
 * popey looks at aquarius 
<popey> no, but I should, yes
<aquarius> you should indeed.
<popey> 9.6G    uupc/
<popey> so have one share which has all, and one which has only the latest?
<popey> one for ogg, one for mp3?
<aquarius> not only can you do that, but I know how to have your site allow people to subscribe to it without your intervention, if you'd like me to talk to whoever actually builds the site
<czajkowski> oh that is nifty
<aquarius> {last 5, all}-{ogg, mp3}, so four shares
<aquarius> I'd suggest :)
<popey> that'd be neat
<popey> email the show âº
 * aquarius listens to the dulcet tones of popey reading a prepared statement about unity being great, which it is ;)
<popey> )
<ali1234> what's wrong with having an rss feed?
<popey> er âº
<gord> this is cooler
<popey> ali1234: offloading to a content provider
<popey> er, content distribution network
<ali1234> why doesn't U1 music store have podcasts like itunes?
<ali1234> (two points are unrelated)
<aquarius> ali1234, other than out-and-out coolness, the listeners don't have to poll the rss feed every hour for changes, for one thing
<ali1234> they just have to sign up for a U1 account
<aquarius> no podcasts because we just haven't got to that yet.
<aquarius> I dispute *have* to. They have to if they want to have UUPC delivered to them with no effort, certainly. Don't have to, though; you can do it manually or have your machine hammer the uupc website every hour until the end of time to get new episodes if you prefer. :)
<ali1234> i wouldn't really call U1 "no effort"
<gord> sour mango is easily the best thing graze.com sends me
<gord> every time i think about cancelling, they send me that and i just can't bring myself to do it
<popey> i cancelled my graze last week
<mattt> seems over priced to me :-/
<aquarius> ali1234, then don't use it and keep running an RSS reader. Seems fine to me. :)
<gord> its completely overpriced, but thats not really the point
<mattt> what's the point then?  :)
<aquarius> the satisfaction of having paid 45p for one pistachio nut, i think ;)
<gord> tasty treats, if they just give you stuff you can get at your local shop, there isn't much point. but i tend to get stuff you can't get here
<mattt> we have some thing called 'the book people' that come around the office
<aquarius> I went to the local health food place and bought bags of dried stuff, which was cool; fresh stuff in graze boxes is pretty cool though.
<mattt> and since there is amazon and all, i don't really get the point
<mattt> i kind of think of graze in a similar fashion
<gord> same reason i pay â¬15 a month for japanese candy ;)
<mattt> yeah, heck, if people enjoy it and graze are offering a good service, then great
<mattt> gord: straight from japan?  :)
<AlanBell> mattt: it is manageable portions, and it just turns up, so you don't have to buy a sack of squirrel food to have some stuff to nibble on
<AlanBell> I forgot to have breakfast
<gord> mattt, yup, comes in traditional japanese envelopes and all that
<gord> http://www.candyjapan.com/
<mattt> ew, underpants
<mrevell> davmor2, Apparently Carvers is up in flames
<mattt> gord: heh, that's pretty funny
<ali1234> if i install the U1 client for android, will it sync photos taken on the phone?
<davmor2> mrevell: indeed
<ali1234> "automatically"
<gord> ali1234, it will
<davmor2> he says looking out of his window
<mrevell> davmor2, Aha :) Good job they moved those gas bottles
<ali1234> ie i take a picture and it syncs without asking, like G+ app does
<gord> yes
<ali1234> ok i'm sold. getting it
<ali1234> is there a symbian client?
<aquarius> there isn't, but the website should work fine on Symbian
<ali1234> meh
<davmor2> mrevell: they didn't the gas tanks are still there, it'll probably be the timber that's on fire
<ali1234> i'm only interested in getting photos from my phone to the computer
<ali1234> without having to plug it in, or dig around in the phone menus to upload them to a website
<ali1234> having an android client is all very well, but i never take that phone outside because it is so unreliable
<ali1234> if i htink i might actually need to make a phone call i take the nokia
<davmor2> mrevell: Huge pillar of BLACK that is covering about a mile of sky right now
<mrevell> davmor2, oof.
<davmor2> mrevell: more worryingly is the fact that if the timber processing plant is still up there that contains highly flammable Toxic materials :(
<mrevell> davmor2, Time to evacuate Morley Towers.
<ali1234> "uploading all photos" nice
<aquarius> ali1234, if you're a Symbian hacker I'd be more than happy to give you some pointers or suggestions about how to build a U1 files app on Symbian
<ali1234> i'm not
<aquarius> ah, OK
<ali1234> er... how do i access it on ubuntu then?
<ali1234> oh it's not installed
<ali1234> hmm this kind of sucks
<ali1234> can't i control where the files are synced?
<gord> you can
<gord> in the options somewhere
<ali1234> the only option i can see is "sync locally?"
<ali1234> also what's with this permanent "Ubuntu One" folder?
<gord> hum, i'm not sure where now... i know i changed the folder once
<gord> oh its in configure auto-upload
<gord> upload directory option
<ali1234> but U1 in general is locked to ~
<mrevell> davmor2, Blimey. Keep me posted; interested to know what happens.
<ali1234> or rather, it's always a full path
<davmor2> mrevell: http://ubuntuone.com/4ruO4EWu0YGR0BRJUfWnu8 and http://ubuntuone.com/40O4GNJL91Z6qYVZk4wLvo  and you can hear pops and bangs
<mrevell> davmor2, Crumbs, it's so bad the whole world has turn on its side! Seriously, though, thanks for that. Looks pretty serious.
<davmor2> mrevell: it looks like it might be the main building too which would really serious
<mrevell> davmor2, For some reason, Chrome showed that on its side. Scary stuff. I'll avoid Wolvo today.
<davmor2> mrevell: I hadn't edited it
<mrevell> davmor2, The E&S has a video fo it.
<davmor2> mrevell: that was the angle so I could get a the pillar in on shot ish
<davmor2> smoke is hitting wednesfield by the look of it
<ali1234> this carvers? http://www.carvers.co.uk/unavailable.aspx
<mrevell> Server fire?
<AlanBell> http://twitpic.com/8q5vuq
<davmor2> ali1234: expressandstar.com that carvers
<davmor2> and my ex employer
<davmor2> me expects a hug insurance spike in wolverhampton now :(
 * bigcalm[xoom]| wants a hug
 * popey tickles bigcalm[xoom]| 
<mrevell> bigcalm[xoom]|, http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CgHgYIreEXU/Tplz8DS3GII/AAAAAAAAAKU/_Eq7OjVckSU/s1600/hug+one+sided.jpg
<bigcalm[xoom]|> \o/
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Oooo, going to send that to Hayley now!
<Laney> mmm podcast
<ali1234> hmm i need to namespace my code properly
 * AlanBell has order confirmation for raspberry pi \o/
 * czajkowski does the new phone dance 
<czajkowski> whooooo
 * czajkowski now owns a Galaxy Nexus 
<AlanBell> new number?
<directhex> new phones are neato
<czajkowski> AlanBell: nope not yet but it just arrived
<czajkowski> it was a surprise gift
<MooDoo> czajkowski: awesome :D
<gord> if anyone wants to surprise me with a gift, i like cake more than phones
<bigcalm[xoom]> Mmmm, cake
<bigcalm[xoom]> They have nice chocolate cake at the light house
 * AlanBell spots popey using old branding
<gord> alas i can not allow myself to buy cake, for that is a slippery road, only gifted cake can be eaten
<AlanBell> http://popey.com/favicon.ico
<bigcalm[xoom]> gord: fix czajkowski's problems and maybe when will gift you cake
<bigcalm[xoom]> When = she
<gord> already did!
<gord> well, i watched the review land in trunk, i didn't do the work
 * gord ponders a "gord wants cake" kickstarter. "will fix bugs for cake"
<popey> oh noes
<bigcalm[xoom]> Heh, could work
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ooops. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/29/windows_azure_outage/
<mattt> someone mention cake?
<popey> www.windowsazure.com/en-us/support/service-dashboard/ doesn't look well
<diplo> :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh dear, shame.
<diplo> I like the cloud for somethings, but  I rather keep stuff in my control
<directhex> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/21/amazon_cloud_probs/ ?
<directhex> cloud services explode.
<ali1234> the more i think about it, the more it occurs to me that "the cloud" is actually a clown car
<directhex> it's what they do.
<directhex> ali1234, cloud computing in the modern sense is useful for two related use cases
<directhex> cloud data storage is a distinct product with its own plusses/minuses
<ali1234> i'm thinking more about the virtual machine type
<directhex> e.g. when the raspberry pi went on sale today, RS and Farnell's web servers both melted
<ali1234> where you can just keep pulling more and more servers out of it
<directhex> if they were hosted on an elastic compute platform like EC2, they could have spun up a couple of dozen more servers at the problem within minutes, rather than running around their mainframes screaming
<ali1234> only if they had specifically written their platform to actually scale like that, but yeah
<directhex> well, yes. cloud compute is crap for non-cloud-compute software
<directhex> but the ability to scale up in an instant is useful for lumpy workloads
<popey> they should use mongo-db, it's web-scale
<ali1234> but every time you click the "add node" button or whatever, it's like another clown climbing out of the clown car
<directhex> popey, and node.js!
<popey> indeed
<directhex> there are node.js clutter bindings now
<directhex> handmade, not generated or introspected
<diplo> Still not played with node.js
<diplo> Not sure I'm going to bother
<ali1234> it wouldn't make sense for farnell and rs to rewrite their entire website for an event that will probably never happen again
<ali1234> what they should have done is make a website just for selling this one thing, and then just forward the orders
<AlanBell> diplo: node.js is very good for one or two specific use-cases
<directhex> ali1234, probably not, but for new projects, any scalability design which doesn't account for cloud platforms is unfit for purpose
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, now windowsazure.com seems down :p
<AlanBell> diplo: etherpad-lite uses node.js to good effect
<ali1234> sure. but farnell has had the same website for like 8 years
<popey> i suspect farnell and rs didnt comprehend the number of potential buyers
<popey> so figured their sites could cope
<directhex> ali1234, that's not a good thing, y'know
<diplo> yeah not that AlanBell is something I keep meaning to try!
<diplo> Thanks for the reminder!
 * diplo grabs now
<TheOpenSourcerer> Maybe Farnell & RS use the Azure cloud and in effect Raspberry Pi killed Windows ;-)
<popey> http://coderace.me/
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, mainframe backend , three web servers w/ proprietary load balancer
<ali1234> i'm guessing azure was killed by a bug with leap years
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, the mainframe died, not just the web servers & balancer
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: Thanks but that is just too boring.
<directhex> ali1234, that killed zune for a day :)
<ali1234> yeah, you'd think they would learn
<directhex> "mp3 player is a brick on new year's eve on leap years" is a funny bug
<ali1234> yeah especially if you were going to use it for music at your party
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: AlanBell check out the use of the stylus on the Asus Padfone http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/tablet-pcs/1290634/updated-asus-padfone-specs-stylus-keyboard-dock-hands-on
<popey> lolwut
<AlanBell> gosh, because that won't make you look silly or anything
<popey> reminds me of terry wogan and blankety blank
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed. Talkingintoapen
<ali1234> yeah because walking around with a tablet and a smartphone glued to your hand doesn't already make you look incredibly silly
 * popey tickles Myrtti 
<Myrtti> *giggle*
 * popey downloads windows 8 preview thing for a look
<Myrtti> popey: why the tickle?
<Myrtti> :-P
<popey> no reason
<Myrtti> kjÃ¤hkjÃ¤h
<czajkowski> gord: when can i expect your magic to land ?
<gord> czajkowski, thurs
<popey> which magic is this?
<popey> 5.4?
<czajkowski> the alt taking over my screen
<czajkowski> :)
 * popey has that magic
 * czajkowski hugs Myrtti :D
<Pendulum> Myrtti: congrats!
 * AlanBell is missing something
<popey> beans?
<diplo> Anyone know of any recent issues with xorg/compiz
<diplo> had 3 crashes today.. thought they were my fault at first
<diplo> But this one happened out of the blue with a terminal and xchat open
<ali1234> i've been getting compiz crashes a lot lately
<diplo> Xorg just hit 100% and stayed there
<ali1234> one 12.04 though
<diplo> 11.10
<diplo> <Goobley> Farnell just emailed me to say that they've cancelled my order because they don't have the item in stock...
<diplo> pi channel :/
<diplo> ah but he was in france ( not that it should make a difference
<diplo> )
<andylockran> aww
<ali1234> AlanBell: you know that new thing with the overlay scroll bars and resizing? it only works on window's outer borders, and not internal panels :(
<ali1234> what's the purpose of ctrl-t in a terminal?
<ali1234> it appears to swap the last two characters?
<davmor2> Myrtti: Woohoo!
<AlanBell> ali1234: ti tranpsoses letetrs fro poeple woh tpye badyl
<tugrik> i presume that's just a bash thing ali1234 ?
<ali1234> probably yeah
<shauno> interesting.  meta-t does it with words too.  never noticed that before
<AlanBell> ali1234: \o/ to partially implemented reasonable ideas
<ali1234> AlanBell: scroll bars? implementing it fully in the way it's been done so far will be tough. I would guess it is working by detecting that the mouse left the right edge of the window rather than the right edge of the scroll handle... which may be a lot harder to detect
<ali1234> also, even if you can detect it, figuring out which window element to resize may be hard too
<ali1234> so yeah... it's not that reasonable
<ali1234> the reasonable thing to do would be to anchor the handle on the right instead of the left
<ali1234> then it would only get in the way if you were trying to scroll something that was the same width as the handle
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xeQr_ezIGyw#t=66s I spot Ubunt
<AlanBell> u
<paulBunker> #django
 * MartijnVdS likes OpenWRT
<MartijnVdS> even on old routers it works greast
<MartijnVdS> -s
 * MartijnVdS has a few 8-year old WRT54GL's
<MartijnVdS> or 7
<mgdm> I bought one last year, actually
<mgdm> it was cheap :-)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: The ones I have are owned by a camping (who have replaced them with newer, "outdoor-ready" APs)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: but I'm repurposing them to be repeaters for areas with bad coverage
<MartijnVdS> (it's in a forest)
<jacobw> interesting
<jacobw> wireless, i presume?
<MartijnVdS> Yes, 5GHz point to point connection back to "base"
<jacobw> ok
<MartijnVdS> I've managed to get a management vlan working (and separated from the wifi vlan)
<MartijnVdS> so I can snmp-poll them all day long ;)
<MartijnVdS> I also have an older WRT54GS (the first one they bought), which I'm modding a bit
<MartijnVdS> (serial console, serial port, arduino attached to serial port, some "weather" sensors attached to arduino)
<jacobw> how is the data flow working from arduino to network?
<MartijnVdS> Small program on the WRT, reading serial and telling collectd about it
<jacobw> collectd?
<MartijnVdS> statistics/graphing engine/tool thing
<MartijnVdS> http://collectd.org/
<jacobw> that looks interesting
 * jacobw will test collectd soon
<MartijnVdS> getting a web interface for it is a bit tricky
<MartijnVdS> but it's all packaged and very modular
<jacobw> apc ups plugin is nice
<MartijnVdS> they have lots of plugins for everything you could ever want
<jacobw> they have a lot of plugins :)
<MartijnVdS> and you can even write your own if you know how to write to a unix socket
<jacobw> i don't much unix c
<jacobw> +know
<MartijnVdS> they have an example Perl script in /usr/share/doc/collectd/examples
 * jacobw will look
<jacobw> i don't feel like installing anything over my current ~50kB/s connection
<jacobw> ssh to vps for irc is slow enough :|
<AlanBell> is there a thing to install to get overlay scrollbars in firefox and thunderbird or is it not going to happen in those applications?
<dogmatic69> I have a US keyboard, is there some way I can make the $ a Â£ so I dont have to search google every time I want to type Â£
<mattt> why's everyone getting so worked up about these work experience schemes?  :)
<mgdm> because it seemed that they were forcing unemployed people to work for Tesco for a month without pay, or lose their jobseeker's allowance
<mgdm> (not just Tesco of course, but a few other companies who would be very well able to pay their staff)
<popey> anyone on precise fancy confirming bug 943637
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 943637 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "Resize gwibber window, content shifts to the right" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/943637
<popey> its an easy one
<mattt> mgdm: yeah, i guess i see that being a bit cheeky, but still torn
<brobostigon> but, the point being, if you work, equally, to someone else, you should be treated equally.
<brobostigon> ie, if i do the work officially, that requires minimum wage, why should i not be payed that.
<mattt> well
<mattt> why don't they try to arrange some sort of work schemes through the council?  that'd make the most sense
<brobostigon> no idea.
<brobostigon> to a point, this is why when i learnt of the drums, my focus changed,
<mattt> say what?
<brobostigon> mattt: It become pointless, other than somrthing as a hobby.
<brobostigon> mattt: as an aspie, no one seems to want me, therefore, endof, i can only work to other means.
<popey> .35
<popey> ba
<dogmatic69> nobody know about my question :(
<brobostigon> or, i mean, focus to other things.
<ali1234> actually it's 8 weeks
<ali1234> and they are claiming "340000" did the scheme "without problems"
<ali1234> which as far as i am concerned means the scheme destroyed 1500 real jobs
<ali1234> and gave those jobs instead to people who had to work for nothing (and yes, jobseeker's is nothing)
<mattt> brobostigon: pretty sure i work w/ a guy who's got aspergers
<mattt> anyway, afk
<brobostigon> mattt: the figures being, 85% of those who have autism, have no work, econimocically, of any kind, why?
<Blacki> Good evening.
<popey> hello
<Blacki> am I right here for some ubuntu support ?
<ali1234> i checked my figures, it's 34000 * 8 weeks = 5000 years = 5000 real jobs for the 1 year the scheme has been running
<AlanBell> hi Blacki
<brobostigon> good evening Blacki
<AlanBell> Blacki: what is the question?
<AlanBell> ali1234: that is presuming the work needed doing
<Blacki> I ve installed the newest version of Ubuntu and now I cant boot. Grub said no such device and a code
<AlanBell> ooh, that happened to me
<ali1234> if someone did it, it needed doing
<AlanBell> is it 12.04 Blacki?
<ali1234> either that or the whole thing is an utter waste of time anyway
<AlanBell> and is the error about a magic elf?
<Blacki> 10.04.1 I guess
<AlanBell> ali1234: I suspect it is makework and an utter waste of time
<Blacki> 11.10 is the right version.
<brobostigon> ali1234: i am generally a waste of space, i do come in useull, but am generally pointless for most things.
<AlanBell> Blacki: do you have the exact error text?
<Blacki> sure one sec
<Blacki> bff339c-73cd-49fe-96b7-2b0b892ac48c
<AlanBell> ah, right that is a device UUID
<brobostigon> anything more?
<ali1234> sounds like partition UUID changed
<brobostigon> agreed.
<Blacki> and that means ?
<AlanBell> Blacki: just looking for a good fixing it guide for you
<Blacki> Thanks ;)
<brobostigon> it is a way of identifyingthe disks and partions without refferring to to /dev*
<brobostigon> ie, independent from.
<AlanBell> Blacki: http://www.tavisonline.com/2011/10/fix-broken-grub/
<AlanBell> there is some explanation there and the quick fix section should probably quickly fix it, you will need to boot from a live CD to do it
<Blacki> hehe Im using the live cd at the moment ^^
<Blacki> Thanks for the fast help I'll try it.
<Blacki> I guess this is not my best day ... error: cannot find a device for / (is /dev mounted?).
<AlanBell> Blacki: can you do sudo blkid
<AlanBell> that should print out the UUIDs that the live CD can see
<AlanBell> want to know if it can see one that matches the one grub says is missing, or if it is different
<Blacki> hm?
<Blacki> It wont write the code here
<Blacki> # /dev/loop0: TYPE="squashfs
<Blacki> # /dev/mapper/isw_bgeicabafa_Volume0p6: UUID="3bcf8905-81fa-491e-83ea-3cd4e4d8b947" TYPE="ext4"
<Blacki> # /dev/mapper/isw_bgeicabafa_Volume0p7: UUID="b156d6de-2c45-4a63-8ebb-2b836d4a5fc9" TYPE="ext4"
<Blacki> # /dev/sdc1: SEC_TYPE="msdos" LABEL="USB 2GB" UUID="62AE-D90A" TYPE="vfat"
<Blacki> sdc1 = my live "cd"
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> so grub is looking for  bff339c-73cd-49fe-96b7-2b0b892ac48c and it isn't there
<Blacki> and grub is doing this because .. ?
<AlanBell> that is a good question
<AlanBell> um, I am running out of answers and falling asleep, if someone else wants to help that would be great, otherwise maybe tomorrow
<AlanBell> or ask in #ubuntu or on askubuntu.com
<AlanBell> but I am going to have to leave this now
<Blacki> kay good night and thans.
<popey> awww... mate of mine found a pic of me and sophie at the LUG
<popey> http://www.matthewgrove.co.uk/moblog/view/2005-08-06/resized_06082005(001).jpg
<popey> nearly 6 years ago!
<popey> over 6 years!
<AlanBell> you are the one in jeans right?
<popey> âº
<brobostigon> isnt popey distinctive?
<brobostigon> does the pope wear a dress?
<popey> Also. I'm not 8.
<brobostigon> that is as good a joke as i can do.
<brobostigon> well, it is said, as some men become older, we do become alittle on the childish side.
 * brobostigon tried to think of more jokes.
<brobostigon> :(
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-01
<Pheetard> hey all
<Pheetard> i've jst come back to ubntu (oneric) after a few years back in windows (7, since beta), and it sure is different from how i remember it (intrepid). not jst the interface, i mean i knew about gnome3/unity,  but what happened to xorg.conf?
<Pheetard> it seems to have been replaced by some kind of automagic configuration
<Pheetard> which is annoying, because i want to change the graphics driver on my laptop (Gallium's giving me god-awful 3d performance on this laptop's Radeon X1200) but can't find any way to manually configure xorg's video driver
<Pheetard> is there a way to tell it to use "radeon" instead of "gallim3d" does anyone know?
<ali1234> just make an Xorg.conf
<ali1234> it still works
<ali1234> it just isn't needed by default
<Pheetard> oh, right
<ali1234> if you install the fglrx driver it makes an xorg.conf
<ali1234> then you can edit it however you want
<ali1234> well, it used to anyway
<Pheetard> if it does it by magic, can i just write one from scratch with just the sections i want to customise?
<ali1234> probably, if you know how to do that
<ali1234> you can have very minimal configs
<Pheetard> excellent
<Pheetard> thanks very much
<Pheetard> =D
<Azelphur> hell yes, hit 1.8ghz on my phone (800mhz stock), got Android 4 ICS installed, and It's running Ubuntu 12.04 NATIVE.
 * Azelphur hugs his phone
<daubers> Morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just got a notification from Farnell, my Pis will be later than 1st indicated, now saying w/c 23/04/12...
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I have an order confirmation email from Farnell
<MartijnVdS> but it's not showing up on their 'Order history' page
<TheOpenSourcerer> My order is there - just says "Processing". Hey ho. Am not unhappy about waiting.
<MartijnVdS> Hm. I'll send them an email.
<MartijnVdS> If it's not in their systems, I might just wait for the frenzy to calm down a bit
<popey> hah, just noticed my order has changed from 2 to 1 pi
<DJones> Morning
<MooDoo> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Mine too, but still showing the price for 2 :-(
<bigcalm[xoom]> Ahoy :)
<DJones> still no VM bigcalm[xoom] ?
 * popey wonders if czajkowski is in the office
<awilkins> Getting a new work-issue laptop today. Deeply inconvenient, mostly because it's Windows and will have to reinstall 100 or so packages (probably lazily on demand, but still an overhead)
 * MartijnVdS shouts at the NetworkManager OpenVPN plugin
<MartijnVdS> WHY doesn't it work with the OpenVPN server at work?
<MooDoo> awilkins: your getting a laptop for free?
<awilkins> No name : whats the issue?
<awilkins> No name : they're replacing the one I have
 * daubers drinks coffee
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: "No name"?
<awilkins> That's what's showing as your nick in my client
<daubers> MartijnVdS: You are the man with no name...
<MartijnVdS> I am!?
<MartijnVdS> better?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: ^
<DJones> it must be awilkins client, it shows fine as MartijnVdS for me
<awilkins> No, but this is a crappy IRC client
<awilkins> You're all No name
<MartijnVdS> obviously ;)
<daubers> \o/ we can throw insults without being identified
<awilkins> N900 built in one
<MooDoo> it's wierd as well awilkins as i see your password too, it's showing up as ******** ;) lol
<MooDoo> daubers: i see you :) lol
<daubers> MooDoo: Shhhhhhhh!
<awilkins> Arrgh. Oh well, the crappy mobile coverage will override th crappy client soon
<awilkins> Tunnel!
<bigcalm[xoom]> Heh
<awilkins> Now his name I see.
<bigcalm[xoom]> I never thought that being without a internet connection would actually be depressing
<christel> :o
<MartijnVdS> Are there still dial-up BBSes? Try one of those ;)
<bigcalm[xoom]> Goodness knows what I would feel like if I wasn't on medication
<daubers> bigcalm[xoom]: Seriously, just change provider
<daubers> Or get a USB mobile broadband dongle?
<popey> bigcalm[xoom]: you're not complaining at VM enough âº
<daubers> bigcalm[xoom]: Go sit on their front door with a placard
<bigcalm[xoom]> I have my phone, but I need it shared for my lan. 'Just change provider' is not an easy option
<daubers> "Wantz interwebz plz!"
<bigcalm[xoom]> If my router had a usb socket I would be able to do what pope has done
<popey> bigcalm[xoom]: surely your phone can be an access point?
<bigcalm[xoom]> popey: yes, but not all of my systems have wifi. For the one project I'm having to run 3 separate machines
<bigcalm[xoom]> Running dd-wrt, can I connect the router to my phone via wifi and then distribute it via the wired connections?
<czajkowski> popey: I am
<czajkowski> popey: where are you?
<popey> cool
<popey> heading in shortly
<czajkowski> sitting where I was before
<czajkowski> well before I moved
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Eta now set to 9am tomorrow.
 * bigcalm[xoom]| goes to hang himself
<bigcalm[xoom]|> But first, a cuppa tea
<diplo> bigcalm[xoom], If they fail to get it working again, how about asking them to send you out a dongle FOC ? They are a provider now as well
<JamesTait> Happy St David's Day, everyone!  I'm not about to attempt to type Welsh.... :D
<MooDoo> Dydd Gwyl Dewi Hapus I Chi Gyd
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: would you like to buy a vowel?
<MooDoo> lol
<dwatkins> heh, RS said they experienced 'the greatest level of demand RS has ever received for a product at one time'
 * oimon is looking at windows8 preview - am i right in thinking, that's mainly the metro interface, and windows will still be the same if you actually want to use windows?
<dwatkins> oimon: isn't that normally the case with Windows? I gather there were some improvements with Windows 7, but XP isn't hugely different as far as I'm aware.
<oimon> i can only see metro interface being used in pc world
<oimon> the metro stuff looks very touch friendly and not much else
<oimon> (or xbox controller)
<directhex> oimon, yes it's mainly metro
<directhex> e.g. the metro start menu is the only start menu
<directhex> all apps in the app store must be metro
<oimon> directhex, what does that mean ?
<oimon> "all apps in the app store must be metro"
<directhex> oimon, the first icon in the start menu is for the microsoft app store
<directhex> it only sells metro apps, i.e. fullscreen ones with a metro tile using the metro toolkits. not "real" windows apps running in desktop mode
<gord> i need to replace my windows 7 start menu button with "steam.exe"
<oimon> sounds like they are trying to reduce it to a tablet OS then
<diplo> Aren't they also introducing a new FS with Win8 ?
<hoover> morning all
<hoover> diplo: don't think so... still NTFS
<AlanBell> there is a new one
<diplo> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/01/16/building-the-next-generation-file-system-for-windows-refs.aspx
<diplo> ReFS
<diplo> letâs not forget that NTFS is by far the industryâs leading technology for file systems on PCs. :D
<hoover> diplo: probably pure vapourware... they've tried before ;-)
<diplo> yeah, well they were supposed to introduce with Vista if i remember correctly
<diplo> So they have had a fair few years to get it right
<oimon> windicators
<oimon> woops, did i say that out loud?
<oimon> i just discovered that the ability to lend kindle books is restrcited to US only :(
<oimon> sucks a bundle. i thought that was a supported feature in the UK
<oimon> my mum has three books to lend me. if she bougt them IRL (at the same price), she would be able to do that
<mattt> seen a few people in here trying to get Linux industry experience
<mattt> my employer has some very junior positions open, feel free to ping me directly if anyone's interested
<mattt> (based in west london)
<gord> (you'll be making the coffee ;))
<oimon> my employer has some more experienced positions open too
<mattt> gord: there may be some coffee making required :D
<diplo> If only you all were more towards the SW :)
<oimon> although requires an all rounder rather than exclusively linux
<gord> i wonder if i could employ an unpaid intern to make me coffee...
<mattt> gord: put it out there, you may get a bite
<oimon> nespresso?
<gord> "Joy entails going in to town, picking up some coffee to go and coming back. if the coffee is cold, you are fired"
<mattt> they don't even have to make it?
<mattt> should be no bother finding someone
<gord> why would i trust my coffee quality to an unpaid intern?
<gord> i want someone that is paid to make it
<mattt> ha
<mattt> the logic is there
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<popey> Morning chaps
<brobostigon> morning popey
<mattt> morning
<brobostigon> morning mattt
<gord> weirdest thing is happening with my phone today... it keeps speaking japanese at me then when i pick it up to figure out why and unlock, it suddenly stops
<MartijnVdS> gord: H4x0red?
<gord> i doubt it, prolly just some application being weird
<oimon> does anyone have problems unmaximising certain windows in unity? i can't get focus without a few clicks sometimes and drag to unmaxmimise stops too
<davmor2> morning funksters
<davmor2> no bigcalm
<davmor2> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod!
<czajkowski> davmor2: good morning to you
<gord> oimon, on what unity? O?
<oimon> 11.10 gord
<gord> weird
<davmor2> oimon: nope just you
<oimon> hurry up april
<czajkowski> oimon: yes I cant unmaximise a terminal
<czajkowski> I end up having to kill it
<oimon> czajkowski, eww
<oimon> sort of similar
<czajkowski> cant find the min max boxes
<oimon> although clicking a fw times gives me focus. doesn't always happen
<oimon> czajkowski, yeah, nor the title
<oimon> ok just got it in thunderbird.
<oimon> clicking the panel doesn't work, but click the app works to gain focus
<czajkowski> damit launcher crashed again
<czajkowski> >:(
<oimon> i have 2 screens
<oimon> now it's behainvg again
<oimon> czajkowski, have you disabled global menu?
<czajkowski> nope it just happens and I can relaunch it and start again
<gord> czajkowski, just the launcher crashed?
<gord> are you guys using 2d?
<czajkowski> gord: nope
<czajkowski> gord: have to kill all apps that I had running to resrt them as they wont launch from the launcher
 * mattt renames #ubuntu-uk to #ubuntu-uk-qa
<czajkowski> mattt: um... this is what locoteams are for
 * mattt sits back and gets lectured
<czajkowski> gord: alt tabbing through the apps wont show all apps that have been launched if there is a crash after happening
<czajkowski> mattt: nobody is lecturing just pointing out what the channel is for and not the need to set up another one
<davmor2> czajkowski: he is aware of that one I showed him at the co working day
<czajkowski> aye there are non loco channels
<czajkowski> ubuntu-TEAM/PROJECT
 * mattt got scolded
<czajkowski> not ubuntu-ISO code for locoteams
<mattt> czajkowski: i'm just kidding around, ignore me
<popey>  /ignore mattt
<popey> morning mattt âº
 * mattt herp derps popey
<popey> gord: I had same thing
<popey> czajkowski: just showed it to me, i frequently get a situation where some apps dont appear in my alt-tab
<davmor2> popey: I have one app,  then a bit further down the line it will show more but never all,  as I say I showed gord at the co-working day the unity team are aware of it
<davmor2> well at least according to gord they are :D
<j0nr> ello folks
<j0nr> When I send mail from my personal mail server to my work address, my work address quarantines it. Have I set up something wrong? I assume its something to do with certificates?
<popey> does your work not tell you why it quarantined it?
<popey> do you send you home mail via a smarthost or does it go direct?
<popey> if direct thats probbaly why
<popey> many mail servers mark mail from home IP addresses as spam
<davmor2> j0nr: does your work user greylisting if so then your mail maybe spam purely because it isn't signed with a known key also
<j0nr> mail is being sent from my VPS which is hosted by some company, so not at home.
<j0nr> not sure whether thats smarthost or not
<j0nr> and no, work just says it may contain a virus or be spam
<popey> j0nr: does the header contain details of the score?
<gord> payments through gandi are so weird - i bet at some point in that companies history someone said "hey, lets just make our own payment system"
<j0nr> popey: X_Spam_Status score =0.1, require 5.0
<diplo> So server is not making it spam, so it's your client ?
 * oimon starts getting excited about cotton candy
<diplo> popey, You about ?
<directhex> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iNw2YcAK9Wc#!
<diplo> directhex, What were you looking for to find that?!?!?!
<diplo> :)
<directhex> the internet is made of cats
<diplo> :D
<popey> diplo: ?
<diplo> Wondering if you wanted Referral for Bitfolk that's all :)
<diplo> Need your account name if you want it :)
<popey> aww, thats kind of you
<popey> ash
<diplo> Well you have helped me out a fair few times over the last I don't know how + answered a few questions on bitfolk already
<diplo> :D
<diplo> kk ta
<diplo> Also you running lucid on your VPS ?
<oimon> often when maximising a window on my left screen, the right screen goes blank...any idea?
<richardperkins> Afternoon all
<popey> thanks diplo
<popey> yes diplo
<popey> aaaaaargh
<popey> stabstabstab
<davmor2> popey: I'm sensing some stress there.....
<diplo> Bad afternoon ?
<diplo> :P
<popey> czajkowski:
<popey>     _                                         _
<popey>    / \__      _____  ___  ___  _ __ ___   ___| |
<popey>   / _ \ \ /\ / / _ \/ __|/ _ \| '_ ` _ \ / _ \ |
<popey>  / ___ \ V  V /  __/\__ \ (_) | | | | | |  __/_|
<popey> /_/   \_\_/\_/ \___||___/\___/|_| |_| |_|\___(_)
<popey>                                                 
<jpds> ...
<czajkowski> lit *&^%$Â£
<matti> popey: Eh.
<matti> popey: Its like top-posting... just don't :)
<matti> :>
<matti> Hi jpds
<diplo> lol
<DJones> Awe...Cat overs anybody? http://goo.gl/aqtE4
<davmor2> popey: I second your Awesome,  and tag it Awesome on lp and assign czajkowski to the Awesome till she gets just how Awesome it is
<popey> she's afk
<davmor2> popey: I know but she come back a read it and hate us all the more :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: who's awesome?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Everything in czajkowski world it AWESOME!   you have Awesome sunset,  awesome sun rises, awesome buildings etc etc etc
<davmor2> MooDoo: most of all there are lots of really AWESOME CATS! in czajkowski world :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: so what you're saying is, is that czajkowski is awesome? with awesome sauce?
<czajkowski>  /ignore :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: WE LOVE AWESOME SO THEREFORE WE LOVE czajkowski :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: something like that
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 2nd February 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | *\o/* AWESOME *\o/*
<davmor2> czajkowski, popey: what makes me smile is the word Awful is better than the word Awesome,  but you won't call something Awesome Awful
<MooDoo> Awesomely Awful?
<oimon> i like the word lameriffic
<shauno> I can never figure out the horror/terror roots.  horror, horrible, horrific .. terror, terrible, terrific .. how did the last turn into a good thing?
<oimon> proabably someone like me making up silly words
<awilkins> New lappy has been delivered
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: \o/
<awilkins> It turns out to be a Thinkpad T420. I'm almost happy
<awilkins> The keyboard is an odd geometry but I'll get used to it
<MartijnVdS> what like dvorak?
<awilkins> It's a bit more cramped than the old one
<awilkins> Dvorak would be a different layout
<awilkins> I've never  learned it ; it would be cool to change the layout but not the keycaps and annoy people
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: just change the layout to something random :)
<MartijnVdS> or with a dirty word somewhere ;)
<shauno> I got told that's the 'right' way to do dvorak .. switch the layout, but not the keycaps
<shauno> it's a really awkward layout for peeking at the keys, you do more damage than good like that
 * bigcalm rolls back into the online world
<DJones> Maybe they've fixed your disconenction problems as well
<diplo> bigcalm, Just before you hit your data cap with T-Mobile as well
<diplo> ?
<bigcalm> diplo: thankfully
<davmor2> bigcalm: you have T'interwebz
<bigcalm> diplo: when I got the text message from T-mobile yesterday I went and set up a wifi hotspot on Hayley's phone so that she could stop using my bandwidth
<bigcalm> davmor2: it is true!
 * bigcalm sighs at the incoming emails
<diplo> heh
<davmor2> bigcalm: what's it like to have fast netz again
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm just happy to be using irc from a proper keyboard/screen again
<bigcalm> Having a lack of connection did mean that I could sort of hide from clients for a while as well
<bigcalm> Guess I should let them know I'm available again
<diplo> Tomorrow.....
<diplo> :)
<DJones> bigcalm: Minecraft 1.2 has been released, maybe better getting your internet back on Monday :)
<bigcalm> Damn it!
<bigcalm> I forgot and have already sent an email to my boss saying I was back online
<popey> oooo
<DJones> ocelots, tame cats, iron golems and all
<bigcalm> Yes, we need to upgrade the clients and server and decide if we're going to start from scratch again or not
<bigcalm> I say we do
<DJones> And jungle biomes
<DJones> Maybe a vote in the minecraft channel
<gordonjcp> "tame cats"
<gordonjcp> I read that as "time cats" at first
<MartijnVdS> The doctor's cat?
<gordonjcp> there's not really any such thing as a tame cat
<gordonjcp> "domesticated" dogs mean they respond to their owners as though they were all part of a pack
<MartijnVdS> "domesticated" cats have their owners respond as if they were part of a pack :P
<gordonjcp> "domesticated" cats show up at mealtimes
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: and in winter when the heating is on :)
<gordonjcp> yup
<mattt> blah
<mattt> worst thing about getting up at 6
<mattt> i feel exhausted by 4 :-/
<MartijnVdS> time for a run :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: is beta one out ?
<dwatkins> I wish I hadn't bothered getting up at 6am yesterday to watch the RS and Farnell websites die.
<davmor2> czajkowski: Have you seen an announcement?  Until you do assume not ;)  I think it should be momentarily
<czajkowski> davmor2: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/03/01/ubuntu-12-04-development-update-16/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-12-04-development-update-16
<davmor2> czajkowski: Is that a release notice, no it's a developer update :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: where would the relese notice go
<czajkowski> gord: ping
<gord> czajkowski, what up?
<oimon> guys, is 12.04 beta 1 out today?
<czajkowski> gord: is there a bug for the issue myself and popey mentioned earlier on when I max things and then cant find the buttons to minimise it or close it
<oimon> :P
<oimon> reenacting the "is it out yet" party
<gord> czajkowski, not specifically, id suggest doing a search
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Not here - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/139653.html
<CaMason_> Anyone know if there is an obvious way to enable 1Gb ethternet on a port?
<CaMason_> the motherboard's NIC supports it, but it's only going at 100
<bigcalm> How can you tell?
<bigcalm> What's the other end of the cable plugged into?
<CaMason_> a gigabit switch with a liight that says 1GBe under each port
<CaMason_> booted to windows, they run at 1gbe
<daubers> CaMason_: Is the cable cat 5e or better?
<CaMason_> yes
<daubers> sure?
<daubers> What's it got written on it?
<CaMason_> installed and fluke tested yesterday
<daubers> what does ethtool say?
<CaMason_> says link partner advertised only up to 100
<daubers> and 1000baseT is in the supported link modes?
<CaMason_> aha daubers you made me think! Someone was fiddling with the patch panel yesterday
<CaMason_> the patch cord itself was cat5
<CaMason_> thanks
<daubers> There we go :)
<CaMason_> all working now
<diplo> Cat5 will do 1gb+ though won't it.. just not certified ?
<CaMason_> not according to my switch's 1gbe light :)
<diplo> Funnily enough I was going to ask this question when I got home
<daubers> diplo: Not really
<CaMason_> switched the cable and we're up to 1gb
 * MartijnVdS has some Cat5 cables that do 1GB fine
<MartijnVdS> but if your ports only have 4 conductors wired (123 6)
<diplo> I've got a PC with 10.10 running it advertising 1GB, same switch my microserver same patch lead only doing 100
<MartijnVdS> you're out of luck
<daubers> diplo: I'd only ever use cat 5e or cat 6
<MartijnVdS> diplo: at least it's not as bad as 10Base2 networks :)
<daubers> cat 5 sucks
<MartijnVdS> diplo: those were even more broken than gbit interop
<diplo> Well yeah 5e more than 95%
<diplo> Sorry guessed that was what everyone uses, I used to sell Data cable we only stocked 5e/6
<diplo> Was just called cat5 :)
<diplo> heh MartijnVdS - Just bought a Gig switch though.. rather get it working
<diplo> Like the ethtool though daubers
<MartijnVdS> I had a fun day with a bad cable last month
<diplo> At least I can check tonight
<MartijnVdS> (well, miswired connector)
 * diplo has cable tester and over 1k of patch leads at home so should be ok
<MartijnVdS> Laptop (gbit, auto-mdix) -> cable -> other bit of hardware: works fine
<MartijnVdS> Switch -> cable -> other bit of hardware: HALP WHAT IS THIS
<diplo> Got to find a place to dump these cables eventually
<diplo> I don't want them
<MartijnVdS> diplo: middle of the atlantic.
<diplo> Get me there :)
<MartijnVdS> diplo: take a plane to the US, open door halfway
<diplo> Not sure the recycling centre will understand that I'm not a business
<diplo> Just half inched them from my last work place when I used to do a lot of private jobs
<diplo> Now do nothing and have lot's of left overs
<popey> put them by a railway, a pikey will steal them
<MartijnVdS> Melt them and sell the copper
<diplo> But could also get done for littering..
<diplo> <-- Off home \o/
<kvarley> popey: What was the name of the small form factor PC you have?
<popey> revo
<bigcalm> Viglen MPC-L
 * bigcalm sits on his hands
<bigcalm> popey: which router do you have that you can plug a usb wifi dongle into it? I'm wondering if I can get my boss to buy me one as the router I have lacks a usb port
<popey> netgear wndr 3700
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> How stable have you found it to be?
<bigcalm> And is it dd-wrt or open-wrt you are using?
<popey> i have dd-wrt on my day to day router
<popey> and openwrt on the special backup one
<bigcalm> I'm wondering if one could plug in a phone rather than a dedicated dongle
<popey> I guess so, openwrt is very flexible
<bigcalm> Shame I didn't consider the need of a USB port when I bought my Linksys router
<gord> google hangouts is so nice, i might just sit on one all day long and let people come in and chat if they want
 * bigcalm goes to harass gord
<bigcalm> Or do I leave that until next week?
<gord> bigcalm, canonical only hangout, so :P
<bigcalm> Baka
 * popey tries to guess the name of the hangout
<popey> https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/extras/canonical.com/gord didnt work â¹
<popey> Y U NO THERE
<popey> bah, stupid webcam
 * MartijnVdS needs a plugin for that?
<MartijnVdS> oh and a webcam?
<popey> yeah
<popey> it will probably redirect non-canonical people to some other url
 * MartijnVdS can't generate a webcam out of thin air
<gord> INFILTRATOR
<bigcalm> BWUHAHAHAHA
<MartijnVdS> Works fine for me..
<gord> what have you done popey :P
<popey> MartijnVdS: url will be changed though
<MartijnVdS> Hmm.. "Fakey McNotMyName", nice name :)
<awilkins> 200 grand for billboards in London to urge people not to vote in a Tory mayor. Hahahahahah.
<popey> choo choo!
<Azelphur> it's the popey train \o/
<davmor2> Azelphur: install "sl" and you can see the popey train
<Azelphur> !info sl
<lubotu3> sl (source: sl): Correct you if you type `sl' by mistake. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.03-16 (oneiric), package size 24 kB, installed size 188 kB
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> that's what we need, a smart terminal that corrects your spelling ala kupfer
<davmor2> Azelphur: that's not what it does seriously install it and type it in
<Azelphur> hahaha
<Azelphur> that's random xD
<awilkins> I wonder if HUD will cope with spellogisms
<davmor2> awilkins: it does here ish
<directhex> moo
<bigcalm> directhex: happy with new lwg in minecraft? :)
<directhex> bigcalm: i wrote minecraft off ages ago. you mean it's fixed now?
<bigcalm> Or whatever the lib is called (I often forget)
<bigcalm> directhex: I didn't have your problem, so no idea if it's 'fixed' or not
<bigcalm> Awww poop
<bigcalm> https://twitter.com/#!/jeb_/status/175205679680851968
<directhex> for the love of...
<MartijnVdS> Woo. Estimated delivery of my RPi: 23 _04_
<diplo> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o diplo
<bigcalm> Hullo
<popey> evening all
<popey> daubers: icybox arrived, works, thanks!
<JGJones> Hey all - what do I need to remove (move) from my /home to "reset" my unity settings completely - .gconf, .gnome2 etc etc? - Have upgraded to 12.04 and wanted to ensure I have a "stock" session thanks!
<JGJones> as obviously a few issues for me might be an carryon from previous version - ie I cannot shutdown/restart/log off from the user menu at all
<daubers> popey: Cool :)
<bigcalm> JGJones: create a new user and see what gets created
<JGJones> bigcalm cheers...I dunno why I didn't think of that really. #blondemoment
<bigcalm> :)
<The_Fred> hello
<The_Fred> how can i go about making my own list of recently started programs?
<The_Fred> i use 10.04lts desktop[
<AlanBell> The_Fred: that is what zeitgeist is all about
<The_Fred> AlanBell, thanks
<gordonjcp> so if I install 12.04 beta, that comes with HUD?
<gordonjcp> is it on by default and can I turn it off?
<AlanBell> yes, yes, yes
<diplo> http://chzfailafterdark.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/i-need-of-these1.jpg
 * diplo wants these for work
<jacobw> does HUD actually work?
<mgdm> diplo: a friend of mine had some of those, which marked things as "This is utter SH***", etc
<diplo> AlanBell, to let you know as the other Alan isn't on. His tutorial worked a treat :)
<mgdm> sadly, they don't tend to work with Basecamp
<diplo> Much cleaner install than i did last time, think i made some booboos last time
<diplo> heh, might have to search at work tomorrow for some
<The_Fred> diplo, thats funny :-)
<AlanBell> great diplo
<diplo> Work all cleared up now, so I think it's time to learn how it works properly so I can explain to others
<diplo> Recommend any basic docs rather than the full ones ?
<diplo> Going to have a search tomorrow lunch time to see what I can find.
<gordonjcp> hm, googling for "ubuntu 12.04 disable hud" just brings up a bunch of videos that bray on about how awesome the hud is
 * DJones wonders if he's lost a month and whether its really April 1st http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17222934
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: ccsm, unity plugin, first option is "key to show the hud" just unbind it from alt and the world will suddenly fill with ponies and rainbows
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: tbh I think I'll leave it until I get a new PC
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: unless they've *drastically* reduced the requirements for Precise
<AlanBell> is it a nasty celeron or something?
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: 3GHz P4, 2G of RAM
<gordonjcp> it does have Intel graphics though
<AlanBell> that is older than an Atom right?
<gordonjcp> uhm
<gordonjcp> it's about five years old, I don't know if it's older than Atom
<gordonjcp> anyway, on 11.10 it's just about usable barring the horrible graphics corruption
<AlanBell> 1.6Ghz atom works great with the intel chipset, my dads 2Ghz celeron is a complete and utter mess
<gordonjcp> on 12.04 it immediately hit 100% CPU on both cores, 100% RAM, 100% swap and ramped the fans up to full speed
<AlanBell> yeah, treat yourself to something shiny
<gordonjcp> won't be this year
<gordonjcp> not at this rate anyway
 * gordonjcp looks pointedly at The Cat With The Golden Arse
<czajkowski> herrrro
<bigcalm> Good evening
<Azelphur> Can anyone recommend a reasonably good, cheap laptop/netbook for ~Â£100?
<Azelphur> Bonus points if it can run minecraft
<gordonjcp> man
<gordonjcp> the Furry Alarm Clock has cost me in vet bills this month about as much as I paid to buy my car
<gordonjcp> I mean admittedly it's like 300 quid but still
<mattt> evening all
<mattt> Azelphur: i'd not recommend any netbook, period.
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> thing is you can't really seem to get laptops for that price with warranty
<mattt> save up until you can get a proper laptop
<mattt> that'd be my suggestion
<Azelphur> not for me, neighbours want it lol
<Azelphur> it's laptops for kids, so it's cheap
<mattt> ah, ok
<Azelphur> mainly for school work, but the young one wants minecraft more than sliced bread haha
<Azelphur> so would be great if I could squeeze that on
<popey> http://www.gumtree.com/laptops/kent
<mattt> i have an msi wind which i've used a total of like once
<mattt> the last time i tried booting it the thing went into a reboot loop
<popey> http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/laptop-asus/97201683
<mgdm> I use my netbook quite a lot
<popey> that looks half decent
<jacobw> if its neighbors when why care about performance
<Azelphur> popey: woa, that's really nice :o
<Azelphur> popey: do you know if he'll ship? gravesend is a bit of a mission
 * mgdm discovers Gumtree is a Tomcat webapp
<popey> no idea, just random clicking
<Azelphur> popey: haha needs a little bit repair because it don't turn on :P
<Azelphur> that's why it's so good/cheap ;)
 * Azelphur noses around gumtree, been nosing around ebay
<popey> yeah, thouhgt it might be useful given its your region
<Azelphur> gravesend is like ~60 miles away from here, hour drive at least :P
<mattt> also, with my netbook i accidentally nuked the rescue partition :P
 * Azelphur lives in the middle of nowhereland
<mattt> so reselling it will be near on impossible
<popey> nah
<popey> people buy blank laptops all the time
<popey> and use dodgy copies of xp to fill them
<Azelphur> mattt: I only want Ubuntu, what's the specs?
<mattt> Azelphur: let me see if i can dig it up
<popey> i should get rid of wifes netbook
<mattt> think it's this one: http://www.msimobile.com/level3_productpage.aspx?id=227
<popey> Asus 1008HA, 4GB RAM, 120GB SSD
<mattt> popey: why4?  sounds quite nice
<popey> no need for it
<popey> i have a thinkpad, she has a mbp
<popey> kids could use it I guess
<Azelphur> haha yea that is a nice netbook
<popey> but they tend to use the imac in the kitchen mostly
<mattt> Azelphur: i'll look at it over the weekend, but i tried powering it on before i moved and it wouldn't boot
<popey> they both have eee 900's which are long in the tooth
<popey> but they still watch iplayer on them amazingly
<popey> frame rate is awful but they dont seem to mind
<mattt> hahaha
<mattt> how old are they?
 * popey shakes his fist at flash
<popey> sam is 5, sophie is 8
<Azelphur> mattt: haha, it's probably ok I think they are mainly after stuff with a bit of warranty on it anyway
<popey> might dig the netbook out and say they can share it
<Azelphur> popey: reminds me of when my cousins kid came over, I vnc'd the tv so I could fire up iplayer for him and put on what he wanted to watch
<Azelphur> and he preferred to watch it over VNC on my laptop, than on the TV XD
<popey> hah
<popey> you can get a brand new thinkpad for ~250 quid
<mattt> yeah, which is why i'd recommend against a netbook :)
<popey> core i5 too!
<Azelphur> yea, but that's well outta their budget
<popey> gumtree it is then
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/16mc9Ra73kEThQV1vGDbSG
<popey> thats a very good price for what you get
<Azelphur> popey: yea, their current laptop died because they spilt various drinks on it about 4 times
<Azelphur> I doubt moms gonna want to fork out :P
<popey> lenovos have a thing that guides drinks through the machine and not all over the mobo
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7cvi00OZDM
<Azelphur> fun :p
<Azelphur> popey: the other one got dropped and screen cracked :P
<gord> must test that out with someones thinkpad at next uds
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Kubuntu 12.04 LTS Beta 1 - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4542
<mattt> popey: where is that lenova priced from?
<mattt> *lenovo
<Azelphur> popey: that gravesend guy has other listings, lots of laptops which conveniently don't turn on xD
<zleap> is there a ubunt program equivelent to power point viewer
<zleap> is there a ubunt program equivalent to power point viewer?
<zleap> sorry just correcting spelling
<mgdm> libreoffice?
<zleap> i mean like powerpoint viewer is just a viewer,
<mgdm> I would guess not
<zleap> where as libreoffice impress is presentation software
<zleap> ok
<zleap> ok so rasp PI  + impress + tv  = ability to display stuff on a tv like a presentation with results / events / fixtures etc
<zleap> which is what my local rugby club want,  just want to do this in as little memory as possible really
<AlanBell> zleap: you can export a presentation from impress
<mgdm> I've given up using Impress or whatever for presentations, I write them in HTML (well, Markdown, but converted to HTML) and then a full-screen browser
<mgdm> might be one to consider
<zleap> latex+beamer
<zleap> could be anoter way
<zleap> but it would have to be easy for club people to edit,   eitehr that I will teach the kids how to do it,  and they can help
<mgdm> if you do it in HTML it can be hosted on a site and updated remotely (which may or may not be good)
<zleap> ssh
<zleap> i guess
<AlanBell> zleap: try the flash, pdf and html exports from impress
<zleap> so plug in ethernet and do it that way
<zleap> ok
<zleap> AlanBell, so using htmkl i just get it to load a new page every say 2 mins
<AlanBell> I think it might do the transitions in the exported html if you put timings in the presentation
<AlanBell> or it might not. It could do.
<zleap> ah ok
<zleap> will look in to it when i manage to get one
<AlanBell> if it doesn't then file a bug :)
<zleap> ok
<zleap> all i need to do then is convince the club to buy one,
<AlanBell> personally I think the raspberry pi is too interesting to stick on a wall
<zleap> AlanBell, yeah,  but its better than having a huge pc sitting in the club house,
<AlanBell> well I suppose now they have continuous production it doesn't matter
<zleap> its a solution to what they want,  that is cheap
<zleap> yeah,
<Azelphur> where can you order the raspberry pi btw? I notice some people are ordering it but their site is all messed up
<zleap> i will use it for programming and stuff at home,  i was just thinking about the rugby club
<AlanBell> yeah, when they were doing a 10k run for the public then trying to do the educational runs it would be a bit wasteful, but now they are doing licensed production it is a nice cheap solution for interesting embedded things
<zleap> i think it has lots of potential
<zleap> in the right hands
<AlanBell> Azelphur: two places, I ordered from Farnell
<AlanBell> http://www.raspberrypi.org/ links at the bottom of the page
<zleap> AlanBell, perhaps as i suggested before,  i can use it to run open areana server, whichfor this presentation thing, it could run that in the background so anyone at rugby clubwitha laptop canplay open arena via a local server
<Azelphur> AlanBell: it only says register your interest now! ?
<AlanBell> try the other one http://www.element14.com/community/groups/raspberry-pi
<Azelphur> they both do :P
<AlanBell> oh, so it does
<AlanBell> I expect there will be more production soon
<zleap> i think the are building to order
<AlanBell> no, they are building to meet demand, which is slightly different
<AlanBell> they can fund continuous production now
<zleap> well hopefully i can take one of thse into this computer group i am starting and get a few more sales for em,  thats assuming some of the kids at the group don't already have one
<AlanBell> and they have two licensed (and quite surprised) manufacturers
<zleap> by the time it starts that is
<zleap> iam off to bed anyway, nite all
<AlanBell> lulz http://uk.farnell.com/
<popey> haha, i have that usb hub
<popey> its crap
<AlanBell> two sleepy component stores for electricians just found themselves with a fast moving consumer item
<popey> bed
<popey> nn
<AlanBell> night all o/
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-02
<The_Fred> AlanBell, thanks for your earlier suggestion about zeitgeist: its just what i was needing
<The_Fred> oh! he's gone
<ali1234> where is the user's chosen desktop session saved?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Global Jam: The Dashboard - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/03/02/ubuntu-global-jam-the-dashboard/
<ball> Hello himcesjf
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Global Jam: Walnut Creek - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/03/02/ubuntu-global-jam-walnut-creek/
<czajkowski> aloha
 * ball waves
<ball> Good morning cz<tab>
<czajkowski> >:(
<ball> Sorry Laura
<czajkowski> ok
<ball> No offense was intended.
<czajkowski> ok
<ball> Note to self: don't call people what they're called on the UUPC
<ball> hello imexil
<imexil> hi
<ball> Can Ubuntu Server run inside vmWare ESXi?
<imexil> no idea
<ball> Me neither. Perhaps I'll try it at some point.
<DJones> Morning
<ball> Hello DJones
<ball> TheOpenSourcerer: Congratulations on your growing userbase.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks ball.
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is going to be an interesting year for us. Looks like we'll be moving to a "proper" office and taking on some kind of staff too! (Bit scary but in a good way).
<ball> I'll have to read more about it but do you offer OpenERP as a hosted service?
<diplo> Morning all
<ball> Ah, it seems you do.
<ball> hello diplo
<TheOpenSourcerer> ball: We do for customers yes. That is we aren't really just a hosting business. But we do host OpenERP for customers we have worked on OpenERP with to implement etc.
<ball> One of my jobs is with a software company that offers its product for LAN use or as a hosted on-line service.
<ball> (different target market, but perhaps some common experiences)
<ball> s/experiences/considerations/
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have quite a few customers for whom we host their services, but they were customers for the application first, we host for them as an extra service and do backups etc...
<TheOpenSourcerer> We host vtiger, OpenERP and a couple of others, (We could do Alfresco too).
<ball> I've not heard of vtiger or Alfresco. Do you have two data centres with fail-over in place?
<ball> My other job is with a non-profit. We could do with a new donor database.
<ball> ...sort of like a CRM, but with the ability to track donations that people have made.
<TheOpenSourcerer> vtiger is a CRM, Alfresco is Document Management.
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, your blog post worked a treat last night thanks!
<diplo> Defo smoother than my own install :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> ball: We rent bare metal from Hetzner then virtualise on top.
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Thanks! :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> It is proving very popular. Got ~250 unique visits yesterday
<ball> TheOpenSourcerer: I've just made a note to evaluate vtiger as soon as I bring our new server up.
<ball> (depending on system requirements)
<diplo> Nice work, it's very well written I guess. Clear and concise which is what people need.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's probably the best (properly open source) CRM out there.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We are probably (almost certainly in fact) the most experienced vtiger Partner in the UK too.
<dwatkins> mornin folks
 * ball waves
<popey> Morning all
<ball> hello popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> hey popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have an early start this Sunday morning :-)
<daubers> Morning
<popey> ooh
<popey> what date is the beerex itself?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<ball> Hello bigcalm
<AlanBell> ball: look at civiCRM too
<AlanBell> that might be better for a non-profit that isn't selling to customers but has a membership base they are looking to get donations from
<imexil> Hi, so my wifes HD died this morning. That means I need to get a new one (oh and beta 1 is out ... how convenient ;) ) Any suggestions what made I should go for?
<AlanBell> imexil: SSD if you don't need the space
<imexil> we are talking about my wifes  ... which means lots of images and stuff and music ;)
<imexil> So I think I stick to rotating disks  for now.
<diplo> Samsung spin points I normally recommend, quite and reliable so far for me
<AlanBell> laptop or desktop?
<AlanBell> we got some nice 3TB desktop drives a few weeks ago
<diplo> Expensive time to buy at the moment AlanBell
<diplo> I'm holding off for a few more months till they drop again
<AlanBell> they were Â£116.30 each
<AlanBell> 3TB Western Digital WD30EZRX Caviar
<AlanBell>  Timing buffered disk reads: 348 MB in  3.01 seconds = 115.74 MB/sec
<ball> I need some more SATA drives, but the "new" server has Ultra160, so I might want a few of those too.
<gord> i know its obviously not everyone's experience, but every WD drive I've ever owned has died on me rather quickly =\
<ball> gord: For me that was Maxtor.
<gord> i buy seagate barracuda drives now, they work really nicely
<ball> gord: The last set I priced up were Seagates.
<ball> I have a soft spot for them, since I used the ST225 for years.
<Myrtti> for external harddrives, don't buy Seagate Expansion terabyte ones
<Myrtti> the customer reviews are horrible, apparently the pcb's have a manufacturing fault which makes them fail soon after taking into use
<gord> ouch
<Myrtti> it's a fault that was reported on their discussion forum in 2009
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.com/review/R1XWBY03RUFE2Y/ref=cm_cr_dp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0025KXMKS&nodeID=172282&tag=&linkCode=
<Myrtti> http://forums.seagate.com/t5/Other-External-products/Seagate-Expansions-producing-loud-clicking-sound/td-p/30962
<gord> i have a hard time recommending external hard drives at all - seems like user error is going to cause it to fall off the table at some point
<diplo> heh gord you have no faith :P
<gord> i know if i had an external drive at some point, coffee would be rested upon it
<diplo> I don't mind people like that as they can ask me to get new one.. just stupid people like my dad where i advised him to get one.. so instead of using it for backing up to he has just stuck everything on there
<diplo> I've got 5-6 and some are 3-4 years old
<diplo> all still working fine
<TheOpenSourcerer> Samsung Spinpoints FTW!
 * diplo touches desk ( wood )
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :D
<ball> gord: I read that on first pass as "coffee would be restored apon it", which makes me think about 3D printing doughnuts.
<dwatkins> diplo: my 'external' drive is connected to another machine and accessible via wifi
<diplo> As a backup drive dwatkins
<diplo> or just storage ?
<popey> my server is filling up a bit
<popey> could do with more disks
<diplo> Me as well popey
<gord> a 3d printer that built from doughnut dough would be the greatest invention ever. imagine, you could build the eiffel tower out of doughnut.. then eat it
<dwatkins> diplo: both, I'm currently gzipping my Windows backup on it, which I did via wifi, it's also got my media on it, as the Ubuntu machine it's attached to runs serviio and fuppes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Beerex is 27th April.
<dwatkins> I'm very tempted to get a Drobo just because they look neat and you can just swap disks out as they fail and increase capacity automatically.... in theory ;)
<popey> erk
<popey> i have one dwatkins
<popey> i wouldn't buy one âº
<popey> 26th April - 12.04 releases
<popey> 27th April - Beerex
<popey> 28th April - Fly to USA for Canonical sprint
<popey> that could be messy
<mattt> i didn't know popey was afraid of a challenge
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<ball> Before we got this server I thought about getting one of those HP Microservers.
 * diplo thinks dwatkins is to efficient :D
<dwatkins> popey: whyfor not?
<dwatkins> diplo: too efficient because I'm compressing a 27 GB file which most likely has large amoutns of whitespace? ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I have invited christel to the Beerex with us and will be bringing a couple of friendly customers... Then, I am going there again on the Saturday eve. with some school dads
<diplo> ball, very good boxes.. had mine running solidly for a few months now
<christel> \o/
<christel> I LIKE BEER
<christel> and alans! i like alans too
<bigcalm> Can you have too many Alans?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Three alans plus beer. What a great combination!
<TheOpenSourcerer> NEVER
<bigcalm> Gah
<bigcalm> Wondered why my home server was running slow. Due to no connection for 6 days, backups from my parents' place are now pouring in
<bigcalm> mount.ntfs is using 47% of the CPU
<bigcalm> I really should have changed the filesystem of the external drives when I bought them :(
<diplo> Now that is a good though bigcalm . You back up your parents PC's for them ?
<bigcalm> diplo: I have rdiff-backup running to backup their fileserver to an external drive here
<diplo> your parents have a fileserver :P
<diplo> All my parents have are all my hand me downs
<bigcalm> I gave my parents a Viglen
<diplo> ah hand me downs as well
<diplo> :)
<andylockran> howdy all
<andylockran> :D
<bigcalm> No, I bought it new
 * diplo thinks he may not be nice enough to his parents :)
<diplo> morning andylockran
<andylockran> how goes things?
<diplo> Slow, need a kick up the butt to get going today. Yourself ?
<andylockran> Yeah, pretty good - just getting myself organised and tidy @ work .
<andylockran> Reinstalled my machine yesterday and attempting to try out Windows 8 - think it may just be the saviour of Unity :)
<oimon> what's wrong with my PC ? chromium takes huge cpu, which then causes high cpu load in compiz :(
<diplo> oimon, I've been getting that as well
<gord> oimon, likely something causing chromium to redraw constantly
<diplo> Not determined the cause yet
<gord> things redrawing constantly cause compiz to constantly update as it now needs to redraw
<oimon> i've got pinned tabs of gmail, g+, fb, twitter, yammer
<diplo> I had that as well oimon
<gord> try closing them until it stops?
<diplo> Found the JS updating just was killing it
<oimon> currently, chromium is not high but compiz is, but caused by chromium
<oimon> hmm, closing gmail reduced compiz to 21% cpu
<oimon> kind of an essential tab
<popey> bet its flash
<diplo> Can you disable flash in chromium ?
<popey> flashblock?
<oimon> gmail isn't using flash
<oimon> compiz seems very tetchy on this system
<popey> its much nicerer on 12.04 âº
<ball> Someone may have mentioned this already (I'm working so I just get to dip into this channel between tasks) but there is a plain HTML version of gmail.
<oimon> hope thats true for my machine too
<ball> "Basic HTML version" they call it.
<oimon> ball, kind of sucky though...neer been an issue before
<oimon> maybe i'll reboot :(
<ball> That said, I think I can use the ordinary version of gmail on this machine, which definitely doesn't have Flash
<ball> ...or Java
<diplo> chrome://settings/content
<diplo> Block all plugins
<ball> Ah, it's because I'm using SeaMonkey instead of Firefox
<ball> ...think that's it.
<diplo> And manage exceptions
<ball> Wow, it's 04:05 already.
<ball> This morning's flying by.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting how Mozilla's B2G is like WebOS - Native HTML/Javascript apps. Looks like it could be an interesting platform in the future... http://www.muktware.com/articles/3364/mozillaz-boot-geeko-hands-preview
<popey> yeah, was interesting to watch that video
<diplo> I grabbed the git repo of it the other day
<diplo> About as far as I have got so far
<TheOpenSourcerer> Must. Get. Moar. Coffee
<diplo> Blimey, is quite quick isn't it.. I'm liking B2G
<diplo> Easier to code for me as well :D
<ali1234> http://andreasgal.github.com/gaia/
<ali1234> (load it in firefox obviously)
<DJones> I thought the "Andypad" had a silly name, but now we've got the "Childpad" from Archos http://www.archos.com/corporate/press/press_releases/ARCHOS_Child_Pad_us.pdf
<popey> andypad kinda died a death
<DJones> Â£100 doesn't sound bad for a tablet with ICS though, maybe not the highest spec, but seems reasonable
<ball> What's ICS?
<matti> Ice Cream Sandwich
<matti> Android 4.0
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<ball> ok
<andylockran> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning andylockran
 * ball sighs
<dwatkins> DJones: next it'll be One Pad Per Child
<DJones> Heh
<MooDoo> hello all
<DJones> Sounds like they should be sold by pampers though
<daubers> dwatkins: One Fad Per Child did you say?
<dwatkins> I wish the OLPC were actually a success
<dwatkins> not that laptops will necessarily solve the food and overpopulation problems fo the world over night
<imexil> AlanBell: Sorry was AFK. The drives I'm looking for is meant for a laptop. So I'll look at Samsung or WD then
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> morning bigcalm MooDoo, czajkowski PROD1
<s-fox> Hello.
<davmor2> morning s-fox
<s-fox> Hello davmor2 , how are you?
<davmor2> s-fox: tired, busy, buton the whole good
<czajkowski> davmor2: good morning
<s-fox> Hello czajkowski  :)
<czajkowski> s-fox: hi
<s-fox> How are you today?
<czajkowski> good thanks
<czajkowski> you?
<s-fox> A bit tired. Went to a concert last night, caught an early train at 06:30 this morning.
<czajkowski> good concert?
<s-fox> Brilliant thank you
<s-fox> http://i.imgur.com/tkekw.jpg Great seats
<dogmatic69> https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109005155681066671096/albums/5715258668905981745
<dogmatic69> anyone know what that is ?
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: any more to it?  not a oom-killer message is it?
<popey> page up?
<dogmatic69> idk, just came home to see that
<ali1234> shift-page up
<davmor2> dogmatic69: Broken?
<dogmatic69> i had to reboot, but it seems ok now
<davmor2> s-fox: wow that's an impressive photo,  but as you stepped through the door did you go back in time the place seems devoid of colour so you must of gone back in time right :D
<s-fox> I prefer black and white pictures davmor2  ;) 90% of what I take is like that. haha
<s-fox> davmor2,  http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1595/13e96a2dfca94885aed389c.png
<davmor2> s-fox: oh so it's just you that is back in time before the invention of colour then ;)
<s-fox> lol
<s-fox> That was when we discovered red
<davmor2> s-fox: hahaha
<MooDoo> a:)
<s-fox> davmor2,  Took this image in Kyoto last year - http://i.imgur.com/wwpWT.jpg
<s-fox> It is at the imperial palace
<davmor2> MooDoo: stop with the rapper cap look it doesn't suit you :)
<davmor2> s-fox: Arrrrr pretty
<davmor2> s-fox: infact that looks like it should be a jigsaw
<s-fox> Sepia is fun
<MooDoo> davmor2: say what?
<davmor2> <MooDoo> a:)  that's you with a rappers cap right,  it doesn't suit you :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh right er ok :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: sometimes you're hard work than czajkowski
<davmor2> harder even
<MooDoo> davmor2: nah i just think your jokes are rubbish.
<MooDoo> :D
<imexil> Hi, what do I need to do to get sun-java back on my 11.10 laptop? I know about the dangers of that but my bank simply will not have the openjdk
<diplo> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/sun-still-shines-for-java-users-on-ubuntu/
<diplo> which links to here
<diplo> http://blog.flexion.org/2012/01/16/install-sun-java-6-jre-jdk-from-deb-packages/
<diplo> Depends if you want Java6/7
<diplo> plenty of tutorials on the web
<imexil> well one that would work with my bank's web site of course ;)
<diplo> Find what they recommend
<diplo> Off to lunch
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Coding Guidelines - http://zrmt.com/2012/03/02/coding-guidelines/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jamie Bennett] TrustZone at MWC - http://www.linuxuk.org/2012/03/trustzone-at-mwc/
<andylockran> quiet here again today :D
<brobostigon> i am emailing amazon, as to why my order has failed to arrive, with all delivery details being correct.
<ali1234> wah wah wah
<ali1234> i'm running checkbox-unity tests
<ali1234> seems even more buggy than the last time
<popey> thanks ali1234, I appreciate you running those tests
<BadgerUK> i've got 2 python/ dist-packages
<BadgerUK> usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages and usr/local/lib/python/dist-packages
<BadgerUK> is that correct?
<popey> BadgerUK: did you install something from a ppa, or compile and build something yourself?
<BadgerUK> possibly
<BadgerUK> im new to linux
<BadgerUK> and ive done a lot of stuff in the past 4 months, and i dont remember all of it
<popey> if you look in usr/local/lib/python/dist-packages you'll probably find the name of some of them
<BadgerUK> ive got stuff for django and openerp in there
<BadgerUK> is it bad to have 2 dist--packages directories?
<ali1234> easy_install also puts stuff in /usr/local
<BadgerUK> or is that a standard thing that i should be worried about?
<BadgerUK> shouldn't*
<ali1234> did you follow that recent guide on instaaling openerp?
<BadgerUK> possibly
<BadgerUK> i've looked at different instructions
<BadgerUK> to which are you refering?
<BadgerUK> im currently working on a 6.1
<diplo> theopensourcerer.com I'm guessing ali is refferring  to
<ali1234> yeah that one
<BadgerUK> ah yes
<BadgerUK> ive looked at it
<diplo> I used it last night :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> boo
<BadgerUK> not sure i followed it
<BadgerUK> ill just check
<diplo> heh $me TheOpenSourcerer  ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey BadgerUK
<TheOpenSourcerer> Saw you in #Openobject the other day :-)
<BadgerUK> hey TheOpenSourcerer
<BadgerUK> indeed
<BadgerUK> is that your guide?
<ali1234> "sudo pip install werkzeug"
<TheOpenSourcerer> What? The one written by TheOpenSourcerer ;-)
<ali1234> this will put it in /usr/local
<BadgerUK> yeah
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes.
<BadgerUK> nice one bruv
<TheOpenSourcerer> There's a clue in the name
<BadgerUK> i know
<BadgerUK> i noticed the name
<BadgerUK> but thought "the internet is a big place"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed it is.
<BadgerUK> well, as you're here and you are amazing
<BadgerUK> openserver is unhappy that it can find yaml in both /usr/local/lib/py2.7/dist and usr/lin/py2.7/dist
<BadgerUK> should i be deleting one of them
<BadgerUK> and in which case is it as simple as sudo apt-get remove yaml?
<ali1234> python-yaml
<TheOpenSourcerer> I would guess so yes. But why do you have a pip/easy_install installed one too?
<BadgerUK> and presumably the one in usr/local/lib was done by easy install so nothing will break as python already has yaml available
<BadgerUK> i have no idea
<BadgerUK> either did it when i was doing operp
<BadgerUK> or maybe it was for django weeks ago
<ali1234> if you install with easy_install you won;t get updates
<BadgerUK> bastards!
<BadgerUK> so im better off deleting that one?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah OK. My suggestion is to limit the number of non deb-packaged libraries to a minimum
<ali1234> whenever you are reading some guide, you should always check if the distro has a packaged version before running easy_install or pip
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes ali1234 +1
<BadgerUK> and in which case it's just a case of deleting the file and delting the line in the pth file
<ali1234> because easy_install and pip are hard to undo as well
<BadgerUK> will do
<TheOpenSourcerer> sudo pip remove yaml?
<BadgerUK> i get confused trying to work out whats going in in linux but im getting there
<ali1234> yeah that's about as reliable as make uninstall
<TheOpenSourcerer> or it might be pip unistall.
<TheOpenSourcerer> try pip --help
<TheOpenSourcerer> or easy_install --help
<ali1234> always favour distro packages
<ali1234> you will have much fewer problems that way
<ali1234> goes for building from source too
<ali1234> especially if the guides are out of date, you probably don't need to
<BadgerUK> distro packages meaning things that are in apt registery?
<ali1234> yes
<BadgerUK> ty
<AlanBell> oh look a new blackberry arrived on my doorstep
<diplo> Unlucky you AlanBell :)
<davmor2> MOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
<gord> i'm starting to think davmor2 might actually have mad cow disease... think about it, all adds up
<bigcalm> Sleep
<jpds> gord: No, that only affects cows.
<bigcalm> Who's to say that he isn't one?
<gord> he just scrubs up real nice
<davmor2> gord: no I have mad gord disease which means you suddenly need to drink tea, grow your hair long and moo at the moon
<davmor2> AlanBell: you seriously need to do some gardening if the brambles are growing over your dorrstep
<davmor2> doorstep even
<directhex> moo-n!
<davmor2> directhex: man how did you know the password?
<davmor2> mad gords disease is spreading who will be next
<Myrtti> right, I've been infected by gord ages ago
<davmor2> By the Everyone Happy Friday!
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> Less than 2 hours left to the working day
<diplo> 37 mins \o/
<diplo> Well probably 30 :)
<gord> ... evil people who finish work at 5
<bigcalm> Yeah, doesn't make any sense to me
<diplo> Only job I've ever had that has!
<diplo> It's taken me nearly 2 years to get used to it
<diplo> :P
 * bigcalm never stops working :(
 * diplo used to be like that
<diplo> I changed for my wife and boys
<bigcalm> Right now I'm playing catch up due to lack of connection
<diplo> Wife liked it so much she left me 6 months later :D
<bigcalm> o.O
<directhex> i work on a timesheet basis, so I get fridays half off. i finished a half hour ago :p
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<davmor2> directhex: I saw the funniest sign in the states, "We Pierce Ears Half Off" that made me think I wasn't going there
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<diplo> Evening one and all
<MartijnVdS> \o dipole
<MartijnVdS> dipole? diplo!
<diplo> :P
<AlanBell> anyone got a recommended value PC that works with Ubuntu and is fairly quiet?
<diplo> No but would be interested myself if you find one, parents need a new PC and I'd like to Ubuntu them :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: Raspberry Pi
<ali1234> lol
<AlanBell> http://www.ebuyer.com/337174-zoostorm-desktop-pc-7873-1051 how does that look? anyone get a better price/spec?
<jacobw> AlanBell: ASUS
<ali1234> build your own
<AlanBell> yeah, I am happy to build, but that often ends up more expensive than a system
<davmor2> AlanBell: I got a test box that is pretty quiet and it's just a cheap E-system box from pc-world cost about 180 off the top of my head
<diplo> Was looking at that one for my parents AlanBell
<ali1234> that's not great for the price
<diplo> really ali1234 ?
<diplo> Has it been that long since i specced a PC
<ali1234> yes, it's gonna have a rubbish loud power supply in that cheap ass case
<diplo> Seems cheap to me
<ali1234> it's cheap
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, there is a comment about the PSU noise
<ali1234> but for the same price you could get higher quality components
<diplo> Albeit I've not bought a new PC in how long
<ali1234> get a cheap coolermaster case
<diplo> You have me interested now, tonights task i guess
<ali1234> also intel graphics lol
<ali1234> and only dual core
<diplo> Only :P
<ali1234> you can get entry level nvidia card, nicer case, and quad core CPU for that price
<AlanBell> well intel graphics actually work out of the box
<ali1234> if you define "work" as "can't run any 3d applications"...
<jacobw> most people do :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: Maplins are doing a crazy deal at the moment, http://www.maplin.co.uk/asus-amd-apu-motherboard-kit--4gb-ddr3-memory-612772
<ali1234> crazy expensive?
<ali1234> for that price it should include the CPU
<AlanBell> ali1234: I really don't get the intel bashing, I run a 2048x1152 monitor plus my laptop display with all the compiz goodies, can run blender and other stuff, it just does everything I throw at it
<davmor2> AlanBell: and yet you can't run the mumbo jumbo games on it
<gord> AlanBell, intel quality differs greatly from generation to generation, some of them are great, some of them are terrible
<AlanBell> it does minecraft
<AlanBell> what are mumbo jumbo games?
<AlanBell> this is on a core i3 laptop I got the week before UDS in Belgium
<davmor2> AlanBell: Chainz, 7 wonder and a few others
<jacobw> things that require hardware support of dx(9|10)?
<AlanBell> so it is nearly 2 years old
<AlanBell> ok, well I am not too bothered about weak support for games I have never heard of
<gord> yeah i3 is fairly fine, its the core-duos and < atom stuff that is often pretty nasty
<AlanBell> atom processors are quite good, I had a dual core atom running this big monitor with the compiz cube and stuff on it for ages, worked fine
<ali1234> by < atom you mean < pineview right?
<ali1234> cos i've got an older atom and it's rubbish
<ali1234> no dual core, no 64 bit, no Vx, and no 3d worth anything
<AlanBell> oh right, I have the dual core 64bit atom
<ali1234> anyway
<ali1234> just get a nvidia card, seriously
<ali1234> don't spend more than Â£50 on a motherboard. get gigabyte or asus
<directhex> heh, Â£50 motherboards
<directhex> i wish
<jacobw> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4StzNTpNls
<directhex> i don't remember when i last spent 2 figures on a mainboard
<AlanBell> what socket and CPU?
<ali1234> well if AMD you want AM3 and a phenom or FM1 and whatever the new thing is called. i don't know what intel's newest thing is
<ali1234> the performance is identical pound for pound
<ali1234> intel motherboards tend to be hilariously over priced though
<directhex> well, that might be it, the last AMD system i built was socket 939
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pub time. :-)
<brobostigon> good plan TheOpenSourcerer :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yep - been sat on my rear-end all day need a walk.
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> i have been also, on my bottom, more or less, for the day.
<AlanBell> well by picking components I am up to Â£300 already, would be cheaper to get the zoostorm one and upgrade the PSU if it is noisy
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> and a decent graphics card
<AlanBell> Intel Pentium Dual Core Sandybridge G630 2.7GHz should be comparable to my core i3 laptop?
<ali1234> no idea
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: what's the spec of your i3?
<MartijnVdS> ur AlanBell ^
<AlanBell> Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 CPU       M 330  @ 2.13GHz
<issyl0> Hello all.
<MartijnVdS> hi issyl0
<issyl0> I think my Ubuntu membership expired today.
<issyl0> Who do I talk to who can say officially that it has?
<AlanBell> me
<AlanBell> you can renew it
<issyl0> (And who's the freenode Ubuntu person who can say yes to removing the Ubuntu cloak?  To avoid COIs with me being a staffer and all...)
<AlanBell> me
<issyl0> AlanBell: I wouldn't like to renew it.  I haven't been active enough to go through that process unscathed.
<issyl0> :-(
<AlanBell> pop into #ubuntu-irc
<AlanBell> issyl0: no, you just press the button
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I think they're comparable.. the sandybridge might be a little bit faster - GPU is faster.
<ali1234> yeah get the zoothingy
<ali1234> the 1Tb hdd and 8gb ram will put you way over their price
<ali1234> even with cheap everything else
<AlanBell> yeah, thats what I figured
<AlanBell> I think I will get that, and stick Ubuntu on it and then decide if anything needs upgrading
 * jacobw wonders how to lose this fedora/ cloak
<AlanBell> !member
<lubotu3> Ubuntu Membership means recognition of a significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community.  For more info see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<AlanBell> that is one way jacobw
<AlanBell> or ask for an unaffiliated cloak in #freenode
 * jacobw ponders ubuntu membership
<AlanBell> \o/
 * dwatkins identifies himself as an Ubuntu fan/user by having a branded mouse
<AlanBell> do start a wiki page
 * AlanBell gets the branding irons out for dwatkins 
 * dwatkins runs
<jacobw> i guess my activity in #ubuntu-server counts as irc support :|
<AlanBell> it probably does, put it on your wiki page
<AlanBell> if your contribution to the project is mostly IRC based then the IRCC is a membership body
 * AlanBell is the chair of the IRCC :)
<jacobw> ok
 * popey is going out for beer in Farnham tonight with flesh people
<popey> (as opposed to internet people
<popey> )
<jacobw> i misread that as 'flies' people
<jacobw> hey, internet peope have flesh too
 * diplo is sat at home on his own ( well kids are in bed so no option of going out :( )
<popey> lies
<diplo> me ?
<AlanBell> zoostorm PC ordered
 * popey tickles dsample with a jubilee clip
 * popey goes out for beer
<popey> o/
<dsample> lol
 * dwatkins stays in for beer and curry
 * SuperEngineer stays in for beer and curry and Dr. Who
<dsample> SuperEngineer: Dr Who's back on???
<dwatkins> Can't believe we have to wait until August
<SuperEngineer> dsample:  on Beeb3 [ch7 on freeview]
<dsample> ah, repeats... that's ok then
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<heeed> ,j #thebugcast
<heeed> opps
<heeed> well join it anyway :D
<christel> popey: that's a bit of a trek for beer for you isnt it? :)
 * Seeker` waves to a dsample 
<dsample> Seeker`: hi :)
<Seeker`> dsample: congratulations, if Myrtti didn't already pass it on :)
<dsample> Seeker`: She did, thanks :)
<Seeker`> I've found the phrase 'yes dear' to be very useful
<dsample> I've already leant that one
<Myrtti> I think I use "yes yes" more than he does use "yes dear"
<Seeker`> I'm going to have to have an opinion about stuff soon /o\ wedding photographer coming over tomorrow morning
<Myrtti> awwww
<Seeker`> I think we only have photographer, entertainment and cake left to plan
<dsample> Seeker`: Just make sure you get the photographer to agree to release the copyright to you, so you can do what you want with them
<Seeker`> yeah, thats one of the things I'm gonna talk to him about
<dsample> Are you getting video too?
<Seeker`> nope
<Seeker`> just photos
<dsample> ah, so what's she going to watch over and over again when you're old and moody? :P
<Seeker`> can flick through the photos :P
<dsample> flickbook? :)
<Seeker`> not entirely sure photographer will be taking *that* many pictures though :P
<Myrtti> tbh I don't understand video either, but I'm strange.
<Myrtti> unless it were archived in some dark place and I didn't need to watch it myself. Could just pass it to kids/relatives
<dsample> Seeker`: just think of the Â£250 from You've Been Framed if you trip or fall asleep
<Seeker`> I'd much rather not have a permanent record of my fails :P
<Myrtti> that's my argument against the video as well
<Myrtti> but I do wish now that there were more pictures of mum, I do understand the need to archive things into pictures and video
<Myrtti> I just don't get that much out of pictures of myself or others either
<Myrtti> anyway
<SuperEngineer> dsample:  Seeker` Myrtti  it is noot point anyway... video, what video? [see http://is.gd/8uoHjc ]   ;)
<Seeker`> SuperEngineer: that'll only cause problems for stuff plugged in
<SuperEngineer> Seeker`:  carry on with that belief... it'll cheer you up ;)
<Seeker`> SuperEngineer: its a problem because long transmission cables act like antennae, causing a power surge
<Myrtti> well, if we're going on the apocalyptic discussions...
<Seeker`> its not an EMP blast :P
<SuperEngineer> [though it actually would be similar to a small EMP.... whooops
<Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOMWzjrRiBg - feel free to depress yourself
<SuperEngineer> as in s  m a l l
<Seeker`> 'similar' is not 'the same as'
<SuperEngineer> me not depressed.... just giggling ;)
<dsample> Damned personalised ads... I'm now getting diamond rings advertised to me
<Seeker`> dsample: heh, I had those for a while
<Myrtti> *snerk*
 * SuperEngineer checks dictionary to see if Seeker` is correct... ooh yes - the 2 words *are* different
 * Seeker` notes that 'the same as' isn't a word but a phrase
 * SuperEngineer sends pendantic alert
<Seeker`> hey, you're the one that checked the dictionary
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<jpds> Myrtti: That's nowhere near as depressing as: http://is.gd/MKDioK
<Myrtti> jpds: just keep on watching the film
<SuperEngineer> [just checked it again...  no it comes up with *see humour*
<Seeker`> I think you need a new dictionary.
<SuperEngineer> nah
<SuperEngineer> [wrote this one myself... why change it now?]     ;
<Seeker`> that explains a lot :P
<SuperEngineer> jpds:   jfi: that pic looks it was nicked from Dr. Who...
<dsample> jpds: hmmm, isn't police privatisation called the Mafia?
 * SuperEngineer can't wait for the next U-U
 * SuperEngineer can't wait for the next U-UK meeting on "2nd February 21:00 UK time"... 
<SuperEngineer> [I assume it's  now an 11 monthly meet ;)
* Seeker` changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting TBA #ubuntu-uk-meeting | *\o/* AWESOME *\o/*
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> [nice one Seeker` ]
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Britain isnt working! - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=120
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-03
<diplo> Morning all
<jacobw> morning diplo
<shookees> Hey! :)
<popey> Morning all
<AlanBell> morning
 * AlanBell wonders if Ubuntu will run on a Qualcomm MSM 8260A/8960 Snapdragon S4 Krait Dual-core 1.5Ghz CPU
<christel> good morning alans :)
<AlanBell> ooh our new freepbx thing thinks # is a pound sign
<AlanBell> good morning christel
<diplo> +
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/vm-instructions.wav that is better
<diplo> What the states call the pound sign isn't it
<AlanBell> apparenly it was once an abbreviation for lbs the old weight unit of measure
<AlanBell> that the Americans still use to break satellites with etc
<mattt> morning all
<diplo> morning mattt
<AlanBell> hash key installed \o/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<daubers> o/
<MartijnVdS> o// o// \\o \\o
<brobostigon> eeek, what happened there on bbc news 24, they killed click, half way through, and why has the weather came on. ?
<brobostigon> ohdear, seems some minion pressed the wrong button.
<mattt> yo diplo
<mattt> well, off to homebase for paint
 * mattt is doing the DIY thing today :-/
<diplo> Tuesday for me :)
<popey> do we have a sane way to install skype on ubuntu 12.04 yet?
<popey> AlanBell / ali1234 ?
<AlanBell> no
<AlanBell> we have two equivalent not-sane ways
<AlanBell> either the 64bit package from natty, or the 32 bit package from oneiric
<AlanBell> each installs the same version, which works, and a heap of :i386 libs, which dpkg sometimes removes and re-adds for no apparent reason
<diplo> Anyone know if dotdeb is a safe/ok place to install packages from ?
<MartijnVdS> diplo: What do you need from them?
<diplo> php5-fpm for lucid
<diplo> https://launchpad.net/~nginx/+archive/php5.3
<diplo> seems nginx team are doing something for it already
<popey> AlanBell: ugh, ta
 * AlanBell starts a hangout on G+
<daubers> uh oh
<ali1234> popey: just send them this link: http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/s/skype/skype_2.2.0.35-0oneiric2_i386.deb
<ali1234> the bug with software center is fixed
<brobostigon> eeek, G+ was crawling there.
<AlanBell> it was a bit, but we could see you, it was mostly static images though
<brobostigon> yes,
<brobostigon> aswell as it being on my eeepc, so somewhat resource limited.
<brobostigon> AlanBell: and nice hat, :)
 * MartijnVdS is setting up rrdtool/collectd on an old AP
<MartijnVdS> which will also get temparature/pressure data from a sensor connected to an arduino :)
<brobostigon> :)
<cliftonts> That's better!
<cliftonts> I managed to lose the channel
<cliftonts> so who's about then?
 * penguin42 yawns
<cliftonts> well said
<daubers> o/
<cliftonts> well, this is exciting isn't it?
<penguin42> terribly
<cliftonts> i wonder where they've all gone
<daubers> lunch time probably
<alexcockell> Sorry guys...
<cliftonts> why? what have you done?
<alexcockell> Nothing... just been browsing... mostly lurking..
<cliftonts> I'm at work but it's pretty quiet here too so I'm twiddling my thumbs
<cliftonts> I'm not even sure how to tell if I've been disconnected when it's this quiet!
<SuperEngineer> o/
<SuperEngineer> sssssh
<cliftonts> oh look! Life!
<SuperEngineer> [as Marvin said]  life... don't talk to me life. Here I am, brain the size of a planet....  ;)
<daubers> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<SuperEngineer> [whoops - that should be... "me *about*  life"]  (sorry Mr. Adams
<SuperEngineer> !ping Marvin
<SuperEngineer> [that got the bot!]
<SuperEngineer> dear lubotu3 - thanks for your
<SuperEngineer> pm - Sorry, I don't know anything about 'ping Marvin'
 * AlanBell reboots SuperEngineer 
<SuperEngineer> click click
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I think you broke his ZIP drive
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<AlanBell> if people are bored feel free to join #ubuntu-accessibility where we are doing some work on fictional persona documents, profiles of people who use accessibility tools
<cliftonts> afternoon AlanBell
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Personas
<AlanBell> and specifically http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/simon
<ali1234> AlanBell: did you see that thing i linked the other day
<ali1234> vinuxproject.org
<ali1234> i'm just wondering why they have a seperate project
<popey> thats been going for quite a while
<brunogirin> ali1234: reading the accessibility list, I'd say that's because they feel that Ubuntu doesn't put enough emphasis on accessibility
<AlanBell> basically because they can make a different compromise in that project
<AlanBell> in the main Ubuntu the design team dream up some new visual crack and it gets in
<AlanBell> then later on someone tells them how broken it is and we set about fixing it
<AlanBell> stuff like the global menu, *everything* is a checkbox menu item
<AlanBell> visually it all looks like normal menus, but it is rather broken for screen readers (there is a fix landing soon to set the hints so they look like the right type of items to screen readers)
<AlanBell> stuff like the HUD arrives without being readable
<AlanBell> the hold super to get a list of shortcuts is non keyboard focussable so orca users have no hope of getting to it
<SuperEngineer> thought... include shortcuts as a main document in home folder.  A document is readable to screen reader.
<AlanBell> sure, there are ways of doing alternatives and workarounds
<AlanBell> a static document doesn't cut it because the overlay updates if you change the shortcuts
<SuperEngineer> [include mthe document in Update Manager?
<SuperEngineer> *the
<AlanBell> yeah, there are any number of places it could have been put, but it is broken by design
<AlanBell> in orca preferences there is a keybindings page with most shortcuts on it
<AlanBell> but that isn't really the point. The shortcuts overlay is a new feature that landed with zero thought whatsoever that it might be totally inaccessible
<SuperEngineer> that's a whoops then.... will put brain to work for better idea
<brunogirin> AlanBell: I see that sort of problems all the time with web site design; it's actually quite a difficult nut to crack!
<brunogirin> even with guidelines line WCAG, which you don't have in desktop UI design
<AlanBell> sure, it can be hard
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... what about a long key press in Orca causing playback of a shortcut list audio file?
<brunogirin> maybe that could be something to do? create a UCAG for Ubuntu UI design?
<AlanBell> the thing is the gnome framework does actually work, you have to go out of your way to break it
<brunogirin> which Unity does s
<brunogirin> as it's all under the hood
<AlanBell> yeah, stuff like the dash and lenses are not treeview widgets althought they look a bit like one, the launcher isn't standard, the global menu abuses the menu items etc.
<AlanBell> it is kind of fixable mostly, but would be nice if it was designed in from the start
<brunogirin> agreed but finding good developers with accessibility experience is hard
<AlanBell> yeah, which is why I want to get more general awareness of the requirement and how to test things with orca
<AlanBell> you don't need to be blind to find out your application is broken for blind users
<brunogirin> true but having seen how a blind user uses a computer helps a lot with understanding the issues
<AlanBell> or visually impaired users like Simon http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/simon
<brunogirin> I never understood them until I saw Robin Christopherson from AbilityNet do a talk at a conference
<AlanBell> http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/meet-daniela/ our blind persona
<penguin42> AlanBell: I'm curious about the ubuntu-won't boot without a monitor
<AlanBell> penguin42: that is worth a re-test with a live CD
<cliftonts> wow! what happened while I was gone?
<ahayzen> Is the Compiz Enhanced Zoom enabled by default in 12.04 or do you have to start it via CCSM or System Settings?
<Azelphur> how do you flush DNS in Ubuntu? Every single guide seems to tell me to install a caching deamon first which seems stupid xD
<cliftonts> As far as I'm aware it's enabled but there are no key combinations enabled for it
<AlanBell> ahayzen: just checking now
<penguin42> Azelphur: on 12.04 there is already a cache installed
<Azelphur> on 11.10?
<ahayzen> AlanBell: thanks was just wondering
<Azelphur> maybe it's my router doing the caching :P
<penguin42> Azelphur: Not by default; and I don't think there is any DNS caching at all - hmm
<Azelphur> well actually something is weird, because I've edited my hosts file and it's still resolving bad info
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Processes only read /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf once
<AlanBell> ahayzen: yes, cliftonts is right, the plugin is turned on but there are no bindings set which is a bit useless
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, I'm running dig and getting the old results
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: so you might need to restart the process that's doing the lookup
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ah, caching NS? :)
<Azelphur> dig is a run once thing, it doesn't stay open
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<MartijnVdS> Hm, cool. Channel tunnel gets GSM by July.
<ahayzen> AlanBell: weird, in oneiric I had to add my on key combo... I usually go for Super+Button 4
<AlanBell> ahayzen: yeah, me too, super+button4/button5 to zoom out
<AlanBell> I will see if that can be set up by default if you turn on zoom in the accessibility settings thing
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: *shrug* if I've edited hosts though there's no cache that should override that?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: dig doesn't look at /etc/hosts, only at DNS
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: derp :D
<MartijnVdS> Â¯\(Â°_o)/Â¯
<ahayzen> AlanBell: In 11.10 i get 'No shortcut set' from the Universal Access... so how is the user supposed to enable this?
<AlanBell> ahayzen: with ccsm right now
<ahayzen> thats not the best solution really is it? ... As CCSM comes up with that warning at startup in 12.04?
<AlanBell> no it is a pathetic solution
 * AlanBell bzr branches gnome-control-centre
<ali1234> all compiz bindings are messed up on 12.04 right now
<ali1234> i can't even switch workspaces from the keyboard
<penguin42> ali1234: Have you tried windows-ctrl-arrow (rather than alt?)
<AlanBell> ali1234: ctrl+alt+cursor
<penguin42> AlanBell: I thought 12.04 had changed away from ctrl?
<AlanBell> I think they might have had problems with things taking control of super from the nux layer
<AlanBell> unity is rather greedy when it comes to grabbing keys
 * ahayzen wishes Gnome-control-centre was in python
<ali1234> yeah none of that stuff works
<ali1234> e-zoom doesn't work either
<ahayzen> ali1234: I thought this was supposed to be an LTS release with everything being stable and fixed?
<ali1234> i think the idea of stable releases was abandoned about a year ago
<ahayzen> what when Unity was released for the Desktop?
<penguin42> ahayzen: Stable isn't quite the same as all fixed
<AlanBell> ahayzen: it is not released yet
<AlanBell> the last LTS did not have unity in it
<brunogirin> hence why we are here
<ali1234> there is still a bug in natty that effectively crashes the machine and forces a reset, and it can't be fixed because unity has no same development history
<ahayzen> But its in Beta ... i guess there is a month and a bit
<ali1234> only the latest version on unity ever gets any work done on it, and none of that work can be backported to the supposed "stable" release
<penguin42> ali1234: If it crashes the machine that's not unity's fault - that's the graphics driver
<penguin42> (or kernel)
<ali1234> penguin42: it crashes the machine because unity gets confused and stops accepting input
<ali1234> it is absolutely 100% unity's fault, and nobody knows how it got fixed, and the change that fixes it can't be applied to the version on natty because it's so different
<gord> ^^ all nonsense
<AlanBell> gosh that whole chunk of universal access settings is all about gnome-magnifier which we don't ship
<ali1234> you can of course go and read the bug report if you want to
<ahayzen> AlanBell: Thats not good right?
<AlanBell> ahayzen: not great, and indeed this is .c files :~/
<ahayzen> I should really learn C aswell as Python ... but coursework comes first :(
<AlanBell> the .ui files are xml things, probably should be edited with some version of glade, but I never seem to have the same version of glade that has been used to create the UI files
<brunogirin> AlanBell: well, like most of GNOME TBH
<AlanBell> wonder if it all works if you have gnome-mag installed
<ali1234> bug 826059
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 826059 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity gets stuck in 'expose' mode when you drag an icon over a launcher icon and hold it there" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/826059
<ali1234> ^ apparently this bug is all nonsense
<ali1234> "it never happened"
<mgdm> How do I move the Unity dock to the right of the screen? It's not obvious...
<mgdm> (I'm not sure if I mean 'dock' or 'launcher' or something else)
<mgdm> Oh, you can't. Brilliant.
<SuperEngineer> Anyone found a way of including G+ in Gwibber yet?
<DJones> http://iloveubuntu.net/gwibber-receive-google-plugin-probably-ubuntu-1204 looks like its not ready yet
<ahayzen> I though the G+ API was read-only at the moment?
<SuperEngineer> according to bug #805452 - it is still reads only
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 805452 in Gwibber "Add Google+ Service to Gwibber" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/805452
<SuperEngineer> [my opinion is that G+ thinks revenue is endangered if other apps have access]
<DJones> AlanBell: Have you seen the last email to the list?
<AlanBell> yes
<DJones> I did wonder if that was part of your testing
<DJones> to see what responses it got
<AlanBell> there are a few reports of it starting muted, I have had it happen to me, I will go find the bugs in a bit
 * brunogirin rearranged gmail folders, now thunderbird is synchronising 10k messages: oops!
 * AlanBell slaps unity and the HUD
<AlanBell> if you turn off the key to show the HUD so alt doesn't get pinched by unity when you are using virtual machines it breaks alt+prtscr
<ali1234> did it also break your workspace switching?
<AlanBell> no
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: no that's the remapping of Ctrl+Alt+arrows to Super+Shift+arrows
<MartijnVdS> automagically
<MartijnVdS> for some weird reason
<ali1234> ah
<ali1234> yeah that works
 * MartijnVdS mapped them back
<AlanBell> it was super+shift+arrows for me yesterday
<tombrough> apt-get install xfce ;-)
<ali1234> why?
<tombrough> anything to get away from unity ....
<ali1234> if i wanted to use a barely supported and out of date desktop... i'd use gnome fallback
<tombrough> each to his own ...
<ali1234> how do i configure this new dnsmasq stuff?
<MartijnVdS> dpkg --purge dnsmasq
<ali1234> i don't think that will help
<MartijnVdS> My system works fine without it
<ali1234> i want to configure a dns server for specific domain
<MartijnVdS> I don't see what it adds
<MartijnVdS> it breaks bits of ipv6
<ali1234> i don't use ipv6
<MartijnVdS> dnsmasq is a dhcp server.. why are they installing dhcp servers on all machines?
<ali1234> wrong
<ali1234> clue is in name
<MartijnVdS> "Dnsmasq is a lightweight, easy to configure, DNS forwarder and DHCP server."
<MartijnVdS> from apt-cache show
<MartijnVdS> Description-en: Small caching DNS proxy and DHCP/TFTP server
<ali1234> DNS forwarder
<MartijnVdS> No, also a server.
<ali1234> so how do i configure it?
<MartijnVdS> by editing a file in /etc?
<ali1234> which one?
<MartijnVdS> dnsmasq.conf?
<ali1234> does not exist
<MartijnVdS> maybe in one of the pre/post up/down-scripts in  /etc/network/
<MartijnVdS> uhr s/scripts/dirs
<ali1234> --conf-file=/var/run/nm-dns-dnsmasq.conf
<ali1234> so i need to patch network manager probably
<AlanBell> http://www.stgraber.org/2012/02/24/dns-in-ubuntu-12-04/
<ali1234> that should be easy enough
<ali1234> yeah that page doesn't answer any of my questions at all
<AlanBell> ok so ask stgraber
<ali1234> where can i find him? ;)
<MartijnVdS> Canada.
<AlanBell> stgraber is here
<ali1234> will it obey extra configs in /etc/dnsmasq.d?
<ali1234> one way to find out i guess
<ali1234> looks like it doesn't
<jpds> ali1234: http://www.stgraber.org/2012/02/24/dns-in-ubuntu-12-04/
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: configure the interface in /etc/network/interfaces so n-m doesn't pick it up
<ali1234> no
<MartijnVdS> then you can use whatever you want
<ali1234> i don't want to configure an interface
<ali1234> i don't want to configure my stuff manually
<ali1234> this is not 1997
<ali1234> i just want to add an extra DNS server for a specific domain
<ali1234> i just need to get two extra lines into the dnsmasq configuration somehow
<MartijnVdS> But.. configuring things is for POWER USERS and Ubuntu is not for them! </design_team>
<dwatkins> haha
<ali1234> yes, configuring interfaces manually is for power users
<dwatkins> doing it from the command line is old skool
<jpds> dwatkins: No, we have nm-tool for doing that.
<dwatkins> ah ok, jpds
<ali1234> you lot are worse than me
<ali1234> so i can patch this into networ-manager
<penguin42> nm-cli lets you bring stuff up and down from the command line; not sure what else you can do from the command line; you could tweek /etc/NetworkManager - but I'm not sure how much is changeable from the config files
<ali1234> nothing, all the dnsmasq config is hardcoded or comes from an autogenerated config file which is also hard coded
<ali1234> oh hang on whats this "any other random configs" sounds like what i need
<ali1234> but where does tjhat come from?
<MartijnVdS> (this is why I removed dnsmasq)
<ali1234> wah wah wah
<ali1234> you removed dnsmasq because you are too afraid to read source code?
<penguin42> ali1234: My /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf has a line      dns=dnsmasq      I guess taking that out might do it?
<ali1234> might do what?
<ali1234> i dont want to disable dnsmasq
<penguin42> oh, someone did
<penguin42> oh, you wanted to add some stuff didn't you - hmm
<ali1234> i want to actually, you know, use it
<penguin42> ali1234: I'd try and stop nm starting it's own
<ali1234> then i will have to start it manually myself
<penguin42> nod
<ali1234> and make sure it is always running
<ali1234> otherwise no internet
<penguin42> I'd assume it can be made to start at boot
<ali1234> looks like i need to make a plugin. sounds easy enough
<penguin42> is the Ubuntu dnsmasq thing hacked in or done as a plugin?
<popey> Evening all.
<MartijnVdS> \o mr Pope
<popey> ooh! you!
<popey> i have a friend moving to .nl soon
<MartijnVdS> Good choice :)
<popey> can I give him your email addy for help if he has any localisation issues?
<popey>  âº
<MartijnVdS> Assuming he's done his basic homework, sure :)
<popey> like which broadband provider, that kind of local issues
<popey> he was looking it up but it was all in hurdy gurdy language
<MartijnVdS> Broadband depends a lot on location. And whether he also wants TV, phone, etc.
<popey> yeah, details I am unaware of
<popey> he's got a week to find a place
<MartijnVdS> anyway, sure :)
<popey> and its his first week at work
<popey> he has a relocation company who should do everything for him
<popey> but always nice to have a 2nd opinion from a local âº
<MartijnVdS> popey: funda.nl + Google translate ;)
<MartijnVdS> (if only.. :))
<christel> IK WIL EEN OPBLAASSCHAAP
 * christel communicates with MartijnVdS 
<Azelphur> google translates that as "I want an inflatable sheep" XD
<christel> \o/
<christel> that is indeed what i said :D
<Azelphur> rofl, I agree with your motives and wish to join your cause.
<christel> wooo
 * DJones offers a pin
 * Azelphur wears pin with pride
<christel> hehe
<daftykins> that pin won't mix well with inflatable sheep
<mgdm> wt
<mgdm> f
<mgdm> that was a hell of a moment to reattach irssi
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> as was it for i
<christel> haha
<czajkowski> aloha
<daftykins> yo
<tombrough> will the raspberry pi really make a difference ? will kids be enthused to learn programming or will they simply go back to their xbox, playstation or wii?
<daftykins> imo all kids have laptops these days so i doubt it'll change anything
<popey> evening
<daftykins> hi
<tombrough> perhaps instead of introducing another gadget, perhaps we should ban all game consoles.... if you want to play games fine ... but you will have to write them first....
<daftykins> *shudder*
<daftykins> can you just do that after GTA V is out please?
<popey> i think the rpi has a certain niche possibility
<tombrough> but its very doubtful that it will actually achieve its primary purpose of introducing more kids to programming.
<popey> i am optimistic
 * andypiper jumps up and down saying "me too"
<andypiper> it definitely needs a nice curriculum and tools behind it
<andypiper> (evening all)
<tombrough> we need course ware, teachers and national curriculum that promotes and enthuses programming rather than office "productivity" tools.
<andypiper> indeed - and we are working on the course ware
<tombrough> but the pi and its software will not provide that silver bullet it cannot work on its own it needs a co-ordinated strategy. At my school (in the 80's) we had plenty of BBC Micros but no teachers ... it worked for me because when it came to learning about computers I was self motivated, but these are much different times.
<andypiper> there are things afoot which cannot yet be spoken of
<tombrough> ?
 * penguin42 wonders if andypiper is really slardybartfarst
<penguin42> I don't really see how the PI will help teach programming TBH
<andypiper> on its own - it won't. But it is affordable -> greater accessibility. The rest requires curriculum and support
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-04
<danfish> exit
<Azelphur> quit
<daftykins> ragequit
<MartijnVdS> \o
<popey> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> \o/ popey
 * TheOpenSourcerer haz tickets
<popey> yay
<TheOpenSourcerer> Time for going back to bed now. Was up at 04:20#
<MartijnVdS> 3.5 hours..
<MartijnVdS> then: http://20vanalphen.nl/web/images/uploads/bestanden/Parcours_overzicht_2011_totaal_Pdf.pdf
<AlanBell> wow you are doing parcour?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: 20km run/race
<AlanBell> not the leaping off buildings kind?
<MartijnVdS> No, the "We've closed the roads so you can run" kind :)
<MartijnVdS> with ~8k people
<AlanBell> nice
<TheOpenSourcerer> night night all.
<MartijnVdS> \o TheOpenSourcerer
 * dwatkins wanders in with tea
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperEngineer> o/
<SuperEngineer> Huawei E367 mobile dongle - will it work oh with Ubuntu?
<SuperEngineer> <SuperEngineer> [can't test it myself until 14-03 - blew my current allowance - complained - they upgraded me to  the E367 with a 15GB allowance - but must not use till 14th...
 * MartijnVdS has a laptop with built-in 3G modem, so I have no idea
<SuperEngineer> oh dear - just seen bug #776959
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 776959 in Baltix "huawei e367 does not work" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/776959
<SuperEngineer> ....but it *does* claim a fix :)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: can't you rush out & get one now so you can test it for me?  :D
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<SuperEngineer> o/ brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ SuperEngineer
 * SuperEngineer prepares to turn off brain & go shopping.... bfn
<brobostigon> similer here, and it is raining.
<bittin> i just installed Ubuntu :o
<Myrtti> woo
<bittin> got a new PC :p
<bittin> but need to update it alot only CD i found was 10.10
<bittin> this computer seems faster with Ubuntu
<bittin> but still want Windows 7 for gayming
<AlanBell> hi bittin
<bittin> Hi AlanBell
<AlanBell> yeah, I heard there are games on windows
<bittin> playing with my new Intel Dualcore i got from dad and his wife
<AlanBell> only ever found minesweeper and solitaire when I used it though
<bittin> they wanted to buy a new laptop instead, and only problem with this was that the SATA drive needed a change :p
<bittin> haven't used Ubuntu in forever
<bittin> its purple nowdays
<AlanBell> I have a new desktop on order for my parents, should arrive this week
<bittin> cool
<AlanBell> going to put 12.04 on it for them
<bittin> cool
<bittin> last time i used Ubuntu it was 10.04
<bittin> but had a 10.10 CD laying around, but updating this to 11.04 atm
<bittin> update-manager -d
<bittin> :)
<bittin> had some old P3s and P4s running Windows XP and Lubuntu here, now i got this DualCore monster running Windows 7 and Ubuntu 11.04
<AlanBell> I would keep going with the upgrades to get it to 11.10
<AlanBell> and maybe the beta of 12.04
<AlanBell> the earlier versions of Unity are a bit challenging in places
<bittin> ah i think i will use gnome3 instead
<bittin> not a big fan of Unity
<bittin> should try to get a better gfx card then: Radeon HD 3450 also
<bittin> and play some BF3
<bittin> Ubuntu Natty Narwahls Narwhals Narwhals Swimming in the Ocean
<AlanBell> causing a comotion
<penguin42> well they would with those long pointy things
 * SuperEngineer settles down from shopping... turns brain back on
<AlanBell> it is snowing
<SuperEngineer> no it's not
 * penguin42 agrees with SuperEngineer
<SuperEngineer> majority verdict has it - it is *not* snowing - therefore AlanBell  is on drugs?
<AlanBell> well sleety rain
<SuperEngineer> [pardon the humour - had apint on way back from shopping ;)
<PhantomBoo> hi SuperEngineer
<SuperEngineer> hi PhantomBoo
<PhantomBoo> SuperEngineer: do you think they've guessed?
<SuperEngineer> PhantomBoo: nah.. not for at at least 10 secounds yet
<PhantomBoo> SuperEngineer: so how's the dual personality going?
<AlanBell> thats a nice IP address you have there
<SuperEngineer> PhantomBoo: ooo, *very* much the same as yours
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<AlanBell> got a new device?
<SuperEngineer> [just trying out IRC in Pigrin... nah! sticking with this methinks]
<SuperEngineer> [....bye PhantomBoo ]
<AlanBell> I tried the mono based IRC client a while back, seemed OK if you are not in many channels
<SuperEngineer> that meant to say *pidgin btw]
<AlanBell> there won't be any mono on the 12.04 CD now I presume
<AlanBell> theopensourcerer should do a blog post on how to install mono :)
<SuperEngineer> yeh... what was the decision on that?  momo - or no mono?
<AlanBell> I think no mono
<SuperEngineer> oh well
<AlanBell> I will check in a bit
<AlanBell> wonder if directhex can help with a command to install every mono based thing in the repos
<AlanBell> no mono that I can find
<penguin42> AlanBell: apt-cache rdepends maybe?
<AlanBell> yeah, I was just thinking that
<AlanBell> so what do all mono thingies depend on?
<AlanBell> mono-runtime?
<SuperEngineer> I thought the decision [if mono was not going to be CD},  it would be available in repos [though I haven't checked]
<AlanBell> it is
<AlanBell> there was never any question about removing it from the repos
<AlanBell> except on some really obscure architecture like solaris or aix
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/868268/
<SuperEngineer> still seems a waste to move "CD" size up to just above Cd & thewrefore DVD required... & not include it?
<AlanBell> on line 45 of that there is |libzeroc-ice3.4-cil. What is the | for?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] My new phone, 2012 edition - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/03/04/my-new-phone-2012-edition
<AlanBell> dunno, have we bust the CD size?
<SuperEngineer> I thought that was also the intention [/me looks for relevant info]
<SuperEngineer> 	
<SuperEngineer> 6 Key Changes in Next Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin | Tech Drive-in
<SuperEngineer> Nov 12, 2011 ... Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin's ISO size will increase to 750MB and hence it won't fit into CD anymore. It is a rather reasonable move in my ...
<AlanBell> sure, it was appproved that it wouldn't be a problem if we went to 750, but right now it is 701MB
<SuperEngineer> ooo - now that *is* a pleasant surprise
 * TOShrun haz installed 12.04 on my lappy.
<TOShrun> One thing I find a tad annoying is if you minimise an app there is no obvious way to find which desktop it is on. If you click the launcher to maximise it again and you are in the wrong workspace then nothing happens.
 * SuperEngineer hates that "word"  [i.e. "lappy"]
<AlanBell> what you need is my little script to add window quicklists to the launcher icons
<TOShrun> Ah.
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/quicklists.py
<AlanBell> grab that, make it executeable and run it
<AlanBell> then right click things in the launcher and see lots of happy lists of windows
<paul_> quit
<TOShrun> AlanBell:  Still doesn't tell me which wspace an app is on
<TOShrun> Or do I need to restart unity
<AlanBell> no, but you can select it and you go to the right workspace and it unminimises
<AlanBell> would you like it to show the workspace in the quicklists?
<AlanBell> or sort by workspace or something?
<TOShrun> Not for me it doesn't
<TOShrun> Ah sorry my bad left click, not right :-)
<AlanBell> odd. If I minimise something, then go to a different workspace and select it from the quicklist then I whoosh over to the correct workspace and it opens
<TOShrun> thanks, that is a big improvement
<SuperEngineer> a thought [ & a question ]... is 12.04 the time to move to 64bit - or stay at 32bit?  Are apps in 12.04/64bit ok for day to say use?
<TOShrun> I was using the right click popup menu to select it. That doesn't seem to wiz me to the right workspace
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: you are still on 32 bit!!
<SuperEngineer> yep
<TOShrun> SuperEngineer: I've not used a 32bit desktop since 9.10 IIRC
<SuperEngineer> from habit only
 * SuperEngineer downloads 64bit to try
<AlanBell> yeah, 64 bit is totally and utterly fine
<SuperEngineer> thanks
<AlanBell> installing skype pulls in a heap of 32bit stuff, then it works
<AlanBell> flash works fine, everything works fine
<TOShrun> Anyone using skype-wrapper successfully on 12.04?
<AlanBell> what does that do?
<TOShrun> Puts skype into the messaging menu
<TOShrun> Apparently
<TOShrun> But it was a bag of fail when I tried it yesterday.
<TOShrun> NOt that I tried very hard. Only started it once then had to go out.
<AlanBell> oh OK, that might be useful, better than the panel icon that vanishes for no apparent reason
<TOShrun> Yes.
<AlanBell> !info skype-wrapper
<SuperEngineer> so I always knew which to pick in 32 bit but which of the many/sevaral in 64 bit ? [desktop].  intel chip - use the amd64 iso?
<lubotu3> Package skype-wrapper does not exist in oneiric
<AlanBell> what is the package name for it?
<TOShrun> it's a PPA
<TOShrun> Google it.
<AlanBell> oh, right
<TOShrun> You need his unstable pps for precise.
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: amd64 iso
<TOShrun> s\ppa
<SuperEngineer> thanks AlanBell
<ali1234> someone needs to hack the n900 skype binaries to run on x86 thru qemu
<ali1234> that would be the best thing ever
<AlanBell> arm binaries?
<ali1234> or even better canonical should licence them from collabora
<penguin42> what exactly does n900 run?
<ali1234> debian
<ali1234> mangled debian, but still debian
<penguin42> then you should be able to install qemu-user or possibly qemu-user-static and an ARM userland and get it to run - with a bit of a fight
<ali1234> yes but its not a stand alone exe
<ali1234> it's a proper telepathy plugin
<penguin42> that's a bit of a pain; it's probably easier to run the whole thing
<ali1234> well yeah but i can already do that
<ali1234> skype UI sucks
<AlanBell> http://eion.robbmob.com/ does that do enough?
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> i'll try it in a bit
<AlanBell> it says it will do everything the skype UI will do, but I only see screenshots of text IM chatting
<ali1234> yeah
<AlanBell> I think voice and video calling is kind of a core feature of skype
<ali1234> indeed
<SuperEngineer> while I'm downloading the 64bit beta  - here's a [non-Ubuntu] question that's bugging me...
<s-fox> Hello
<SuperEngineer> what the heck did I put in twitter [#SuprEngr] that made my following jump 80% [from a very low 5 to a low 9]?  I'm only a casual user!
<SuperEngineer> o/ s-fox - glad to see see you here
<s-fox> Hello SuperEngineer
<s-fox> How are you doing, been a while
<SuperEngineer> [assume s- = silver?]
<SuperEngineer> I've been ok thanks
<s-fox> Good :)
<SuperEngineer> I hope all well with your good self
<s-fox> Yes, I am well again thank you :) Watching the 6 nations rugby
<SuperEngineer> :)
<SuperEngineer> [no better sport than that!]
<SuperEngineer> for those that are wondering.. s-fox  offered to mentor me in #Ubuntu-Beginners - but I kept getting sent from home and never had a chance to follow it through!
<directhex> AlanBell: mono-complete installs all of src:mono. there's no command to install all mono-based apps 'cos that'd be stupid
<AlanBell> yeah, it would be stupid, but I am not going to let a little thing like that stop me
<AlanBell> the rdepends of mono-runtime looks fairly comprehensive, do you think it misses anything?
<directhex> AlanBell: mono-runtime brings in the bare minimum - enough for the mono infrastructure to work (e.g. installing mono libraries uses the "gacutil" command, mono-runtime pulls in enough for gacutil to run)
<diplo> Afternoon guys
<diplo> Any of you used Nginx before ?
<TOShrun> diplo: Briefly. As a reverse proxy
<penguin42> directhex: Right but every mono app is going to be an redepend on mono-runtime then ?
<diplo> Just failing to get php to work with it, wondering if anyone has any pointers
<TOShrun> it's fastcgi iiuc
<diplo> yeah installed php5-fpm and it's running and all looks good
<diplo> No errors, just get 502 bad gateway after 10 secs or so of trying to load
<directhex> penguin42: yes, assuming it wasn't packaged by babboons. anything with a .net .exe file should depend on mono-runtime
<AlanBell> directhex: if I install this lot http://paste.ubuntu.com/868268/ have I missed anything?
<TOShrun> Ireland got a sneaky try then!
<TOShrun> Bad France
<directhex> AlanBell: nothing obvious. except for the monodevelop addins
<directhex> and various other plugins i guess, e.g. banshee plugins
<directhex> not sure why you'd want all that installed though, it's such an ecclectic mix of random apps
<directhex> bible study, IDE, graphic calculator, etc
<AlanBell> directhex: well theopensourcerer has done various blog articles on the mono stuff on the CD and how to take it all off, I thought as there is no mono stuff on the 12.04 CD then an article about how to put it all on would be nice
<directhex> ah, the ol' reddit switch-a-roo
<TOShrun> AlanBell: So is there no tomboy in 12.04 then? I thought that was a pretty popular app.
<AlanBell> you can install it and if you are upgrading it will still be there
<TOShrun> ok
<AlanBell> and it still syncs to Ubuntu One I think, just doesn't expose the content on the website there
<AlanBell> if I read the articles right, I don't use it myself
<TOShrun> me neither.
<TOShrun> So if 12.04 is mono free wtf won't it fit on a CD??? What has been added to make it so much bigger?
<AlanBell> um, it *does* fit
<TOShrun> Oh - I though I saw you saying earlier it was going to be 750Mb or so.
<AlanBell> no, I quite specifically said the opposite :)
<AlanBell> it is 701MB
<TOShrun> ah my bad
<AlanBell> it was agreed that it could go to 750, but they didn't need to
<AlanBell> largely because of the mono change I guess
<TOShrun> So no need for a Chicken Little remix this time round then...
<AlanBell> nope, directhex made that
<TOShrun> I know
<directhex> i blew away the CLR repo a few days ago
<TOShrun> Annoying that a number of the Thunderbird dialogues are too long for my (normal size) laptop monitor.
<AlanBell> like "Thunderbirds are GO!"
<directhex> FIVE!
<directhex> FOUR!
<AlanBell> FOUR!
<directhex> THREE!
<AlanBell> TWO!
<directhex> ONE!
<SuperEngineer> stop shouting - my virtual ears hurt
<AlanBell> 0 upgraded, 411 newly installed, 0 to remove and 88 not upgraded.
<AlanBell> Need to get 170 MB of archives.
<AlanBell> After this operation, 530 MB of additional disk space will be used.
<AlanBell> is what is required to install all of mono (less the plugins and fiddly bits)
<hamitron> why do something "stupid" like that? ;)
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/868423/ to see what it does
<directhex> well you're pulling in apache
<TOShrun> why doesn't gwibber have it's buttons on the top bar? I thought it was an "integrated" app?
<TOShrun> Oh I see, only when it is full screen.
<directhex> and i wouldn't bother pulling in debug packages either
<directhex> AlanBell:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/868433/ is a list without pointless duplication or highly esoteric interfaces to development tools nobody uses
<directhex> hmph, autopano-sift is still in the archve
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/868442/ looks good
<directhex> AlanBell: bear in mind more than 100 meg of that is model trains.
<directhex> http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/bve-route-cross-city-south
<AlanBell> excellent
<AlanBell> without openBVE it drops from 157MB to 128MB of archives, so only 29MB of compressed train
<directhex> AlanBell: space on disk though
<AlanBell> yup
<directhex> the winforms-and-tao-opengl mix used by openbve is also used by other cross-platform games, even commercial ones
 * MartijnVdS listens to some Demoscene Time Machine
<MartijnVdS> Bleepy goodness!
<pangolin> listening to popey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oG1WkI8h40 talk about some cool stuff
<ali1234> AlanBell: why do you want to install "everything mono"
<kvarley> How can I give my user account privileges to read and write in folders/files which are owned by www-data?
<ali1234> gpasswd -a <you> www-data
<kvarley> ali1234: What does that command do?
<ali1234> add you to group www-data
<kvarley> ali1234: Ok, thanks =]
<ali1234> of course it's debatable whether this is a good idea or not
<kvarley> Why would it be a bad idea? I guess in terms of security. But the alternative is a lot of chowning
<kvarley> ali1234: Trying to "rm index.html" from /var/www gives me permission denied after adding myself to the group via the command you gave me. Any ideas?
<ali1234> you have to log out and log in again
<ali1234> and you have to check group permissions too
<kvarley> ali1234: Doh. /var/www is by default owned by root, not www-data
<MartijnVdS> so you can't change the web site when you h4x0r it
<AlanBell> ali1234: well I wanted to find out what everything mono is
<ali1234> AlanBell: but why?
<penguin42> to see what's left to replace?
<Myrtti> oh good. aq doesn't mention me in the blog post.
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: you wanted a mention?
<Myrtti> no I didn't
<Myrtti> If I had, I'd said "oh boo."
<MartijnVdS> maybe you were being ironic/sarcastic
<MartijnVdS> hard to tell from this side of the internet ;)
<Myrtti> oh dear
<Myrtti> SO just found cooking.stackexchange.com
<gord> thinking about getting myself one of those little robot hoovers, the amazon reviews are a great read: so far it has resisted chucking itself down the stairs "which was nice"
<Azelphur> hahaha
<hamitron> I bet 99% of people "test" the stairs on the first day ;)
<hamitron> just too tempting
<gord> they still don't seem to have invented a little robot hoover than can do the stairs too though, once they do that, we'll know its the future
<hamitron> be nice if it made coffee too
<gord> i think your looking for a maid or something
<gord> robot maid
<gord> try japan
<hamitron> why not just a maid? ;/
<gord> robot maid is the future, regular maid is the past
<hamitron> I personally doubt all these robots will happen
<hamitron> some huge man made problem will come about before we get that far
<gord> well it already is happening, more menial jobs get replaced with robots every day - not what you might envisage from the jetsons, but still, mechanical-computerized devices
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I'm thinking totally automated stuff
<hamitron> :)
<gord> bank robot gives me my money so i can go to the asda robot to get my noms so i can come home and have my robot hoover take away all the crumbs from said noms
<hamitron> haven't these robots made you redundant when it comes to the transfer of money, with your cash cards? ;)
<gord> i still have to get cash out occasionally :) the wonderful fantastic local chinese two streets over doesn't accept cards
<hamitron> haha
<gord> i would eat there every night if i didn't think it would make me grow two sizes too big
<bigcalm> Who needs a robot maid when you can have a RoboGeisha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgrKLjoWcbs
<dwatkins> wait, what?
<dwatkins> there's someone inside her, though... I'm confused
<dwatkins> the tank is awesome
<dwatkins> Brian Blessed is going into space.
<bigcalm> Fly my bird men
<dwatkins> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcDN409ZBv4 ;)
<popey> evening
<dwatkins> (I know that's a Flash Gordon reference, but I'd just seen this video)
<dwatkins> hiya popey
<czajkowski> evening folks
<dwatkins> hi czajkowski also
<czajkowski> good weekend folks ?
<dwatkins> Today I learned that people clone their pets. It's been an amusing weekend in general.
<dwatkins> How's czajkowski?
<czajkowski> good thanks my folks were over
<czajkowski> so ate lots of yummy foods, and caught a play and did some sight seeing
<czajkowski> anyone know how a person gets to torquay if they don't have access to a car, train seems very long
<AlanBell> helicopter
<dwatkins> thumb a lift?
<popey> train is quite short, the track is very long though
<czajkowski> popey: looking at 5 hrs and 2 changes
<czajkowski> just wondered was there an airport in the region or something
<dwatkins> czajkowski: whereabouts from?
<czajkowski> london
<popey> sounds about right
<popey> 4 hours from farnborough
<dwatkins> yeah, google maps says 6 hours via public transport in general
<AlanBell> it is a proper long way by car
<popey> its 3-3.5 hours by car from farnborough
<popey> so yeah, long
<dwatkins> the trains are pretty good west out of London as I imagine you're aware, looks like they aren't so good south from Weston
<czajkowski> so brighton, torquay and beckenham  are 3 plays I want to see but have yet to do so after being here 16 months :/
<popey> torquay isnt much to see
<popey> plenty better places
<czajkowski> I know but I've just had it in my head and watched a funny show
<popey> ah
<czajkowski> wont be till the weather picks up
<dwatkins> could do them in sequence, I guess
<popey> brighton is nice and easy
<popey> i used to go there quite a bit
<czajkowski> am open to suggestions to see places in the UK
<czajkowski> specificaly the england and wales bit
<popey> depends what you want to see and do âº
<czajkowski> :)
<AlanBell> faulty towers isn't a real hotel in torquay
<hamitron> visit Hull first, and everywhere will be great
<czajkowski> AlanBell: thats every day in this apartment :)
<dwatkins> Oxford's nice, czajkowski.
<AlanBell> Farnham is great :)
<czajkowski> well given this is where I go when I go homem http://url.ie/e79n
<czajkowski> aye Oxford and cambridge are on my to see list
<dwatkins> :)
<SuperEngineer> suggest - if visiting Torquay - hope on  quick bus to Paignton, or better still Dartmouth -  so much better
<SuperEngineer> *hop
<czajkowski> hmm can see a lot of people were active at UGJ over the weekend, good few questions tagged against launchpad instead of ubuntu
<daubers> \o/ bletchley park
<daubers> czajkowski: Also, a trip to the Gower would be awesome
<daubers> Best Ice Cream in the world at Verdis in the mumbles
<popey> Beer is nice. (the place)
<popey> There's a neat train place there
<czajkowski> shall make a list and do some sight seeing this summer
<czajkowski> cheers
<popey> we should do a beer train run again sometime
<popey> http://www.watercressonline.co.uk/section.php?xSec=191
<daubers> czajkowski: Geeknics!
<daubers> Geeknic in the Gower be aces
<czajkowski> daubers: I as thinking more summer holidays but yeah :)
<daubers> Still aiming to do a Geeknic at Bletchley
<czajkowski> popey: if you organise one let me know so I can tell J more his kinda thing than mine I'd die from all the beer
<AlanBell> there is cider too
<czajkowski> :)
<popey> the beer is not compulsory to drink
<popey> we mostly go for the chatter / social
<czajkowski> ahh ok
<brobostigon> intellectualism.*
<popey> but the beer is of course an added bonus at 2 quid a pint
<brobostigon> \o/
<czajkowski> popey: wow
<czajkowski> popey: so when we going
 * AlanBell gets out credit card
<AlanBell> which one do you want?
<AlanBell> lets try and make sure I am not on holiday this time
<AlanBell> I seem to recall I was having an unutterably ghastly time in the Gower last time there was a RAT outing
<ollyclark> czajkowski: sorry bit behind in the conversation, there is an airport at Exeter, not sure if you can fly from London though?
<czajkowski> ollyclark: thanks
<czajkowski> ah yes but I've one stop via AMS or Jersey
<czajkowski> train it shall be
<czajkowski> AlanBell: popey july ?
<popey> july sounds good
<andresinmp> hi all, I am trying to burn an lubuntu CD.  brasero says that my empty cd is not adaquate media
<andresinmp> I then try to run it again (from CLI) and it says that brasero is already open.
<jacobw> use the `killall` command to kill brasero, `killall brasero`
<andresinmp> thanks, letÅ see if that worked.
<andresinmp> simulating the burn.
<andresinmp> humm, simulation finished OK, it ejects it and says: error while burning media closed or not recordable.
<AlanBell> Saturday 7th July 2012? for the RAT
<jacobw> RAT?
<jacobw> andresinmp: which version of ubuntu are you using?
<andresinmp> CLI says brasero:6184: gtk-critical **: gtktree_model_get_iter_first:  assertion `GTK_IS_TREE_MODEL (tree_model)' failed
<AlanBell> http://www.watercressline.co.uk/Our-Services/RAT
<andresinmp> 11.10
<ali1234> don't do a simulation
<jacobw> andresinmp: that's normal, its a GTK warning
<ali1234> just write it
<ali1234> maybe the image is too big?
<andresinmp> that was my next step. hope it works. ... wait. its gone. CLI says segmentation fault.
<AlanBell> ick
<andresinmp> ok running it again.
<jacobw> andresinmp: enable apport and report a bug
<ali1234> i wish they'd fix that tree_model warning
<ali1234> i like to run gedit from the terminal and it always spams that
<gordonjcp> I wish they'd make a raw disk image, to write to a USB stick without dicking around with unetbootin
<ali1234> gordonjcp: well you're in luck cos they alreadydid that like 6 months ago
<andresinmp> enable aport is something I run in comand line? seems to be burning now.
<jacobw> +1 gordonjcp
<gordonjcp> ali1234: really?
<gordonjcp> it's not massively obvious on the download pages
<ali1234> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-11-10-Will-Be-Distributed-As-Hybrid-CD-USB-images-206765.shtml
<jacobw> `sudo service apport start force_start=1`
<gordonjcp> sweet
<jacobw> reproduce the crash and use the diaglogue to report the bug
<andresinmp> thanks jacobw
<andresinmp> its burning but giving me the (brasero:6289): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_tree_model_get_iter_first: assertion `GTK_IS_TREE_MODEL (tree_model)' failed
<jacobw> andresinmp: GTK warning usually aren't fatal
<andresinmp> ok, good to know.
<andresinmp> when it says eject manualy it means to actually press the button i guess? brasero now could not eject it.
<ali1234> that was suspiciously fast
<andresinmp> 16x
<ali1234> even so, closing the session normally takes like 3 minutes
<andresinmp> give me a cute bing! notification saying it was succesfully burnt.
<andresinmp> cute chime.
<ali1234> i can't remember the last time i burnt a cd
<andresinmp> OK, seems it burnt fine, lubuntu beta here I go.
<jacobw> you may want to md5sum
<jacobw> !md5sum
<lubotu3> To verify your Ubuntu ISO image (or other files for which an MD5 checksum is provided), see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM or http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/answers/LQ_ISO/Checking_the_md5sum_in_Windows
<andresinmp> got that one just in time before I afk
<andresinmp> ok... did not find it in the hash page. it is an lubuntu alfa would that be an exception?
<gordonjcp> is there a way to unmount USB disks in Ubuntu, without it thinking that the disk is completely disconnected?
<andresinmp> lubuntu beta not listed.
<AlanBell> andresinmp: where did you get the iso from exactly? is it the daily image or something?
<andresinmp> from the email we got today on getting old pcs...
<andresinmp> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview/Beta1#Download_the_Beta_1
<AlanBell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/precise/beta-1/MD5SUMS
<andresinmp> match!
<andresinmp> thanks!
<virunga> Hi, i'd like to share files in my lan network but Personal File Sharing Preferences says "This feature cannot be enabled because the required packages are not installed on your system". I already installed samba, what dependencies does it need? Help please :)
<andresinmp> jacobw so I reproduced it. how do I get to report it?
<andresinmp> i get no dialog
<gordonjcp> is there any documentation anywhere on what happens *in Ubuntu specifically* when you unmount something/
<gordonjcp> because it's pretty much broken
<jacobw> andresinmp: have you rebooted since running the command to start apport?
<virunga> gordonjcp, i think what happen is the same in debian, you could search in that ambient
<gordonjcp> virunga: no, it's not the same
<gordonjcp> virunga: in Ubuntu *specifically*, when I unmount the drive it disappears from the available drives completely, almost as though the USB port has been shut down
 * jacobw has also noticed this
<gordonjcp> actually, it's weirder than that since the major device (in this case /dev/sdb) is still hanging around but with no visible partitions
<gordonjcp> and with an apparent size of 0 blocks
<gordonjcp> it's *extremely* annoying
<gordonjcp> it's just about the one thing stopping me from using Ubuntu exclusively
<virunga> gordonjcp,uh
<AlanBell> I think this is aggressive power management on USB ports still
<gordonjcp> pfff
<gordonjcp> totally pointless on a Pentium 4 machine!
 * AlanBell is tempted to rearrange those words into a different order
<AlanBell> so I know power management can shut down a USB port
<andresinmp> jacobw no i have not. is it compulery?
<andresinmp> *compulsery? heck mandatory?
<andresinmp> do not know word.
<jacobw> andresinmp: the command manually starts apport, if you'd rebooted apport would not have started again after the reboot
<andresinmp> sorry did not get that.
<andresinmp> meanwhile in the lubuntu 12.04 live cd https://twitter.com/#!/Andresinmp/status/176421071677964289/photo/1
<virunga> English there's noal gallager on absolute radio, do you like it?
<virunga> *he
<AlanBell> andresinmp: not compulsory at all, it just helps you report bugs
<virunga> i'm sorry, i was wrong...
<AlanBell> andresinmp: that picture doesn't look so good!
<andresinmp> yes yes. Alanbell.
<jacobw> i was of the opinion that apport would detect the crash and launch the report dialogue
<andresinmp> i am trying to report. i reproduced the bug.
<andresinmp> no report dialogue.
<andresinmp>  will try again.
<AlanBell> you can still do ubuntu-bug <packagename> and it should do the same sort of stuff
<jacobw> ah, mono
<jacobw> no, brasero is not a mono app
<andresinmp> alanbell thing sent me to launchpad. I will copy and paste stuff there...
<jacobw> :)
<AlanBell> yup, that is where it should send you :)
<Azelphur> My friends generating a rather interesting graphy thing live in #ubuntu, http://82.31.244.205/pyspy/ o.O
 * AlanBell installs openbve to get some screenshots of mono
<AlanBell> Azelphur: yeah, popey was running that for a bit
 * jacobw remember popey using pyspy
<Azelphur> hehe
<andresinmp> okay reported.
<asherkin> you're probably thinking of piespy, I wrote that from scratch based off of it's research :P fairly sure no one's done dynamic rendering with it before
<jacobw> I seem to remembers popey's instance being dynamic
<andresinmp> now lubuntu : sooo i guess I need to do more bug reporting https://twitter.com/#!/Andresinmp/status/176424675147128833/photo/1
<AlanBell> jacobw: no, it wasn't dynamic, but was time based, so it would do a rendering over time from the logs I think
<jacobw> I see :)
<gordonjcp> is there possibly a more technical channel I can ask about my USB problems in?
<jacobw> gordonjcp: possibly #ubuntu-server?
<gordonjcp> jacobw: hm, it's more of a desktop issue, but it could be worth a shot
<andresinmp> IÄºl go to lubuntu chanel see you guys thank you for your help
<jacobw> they'll probably be interested in power management
<gordonjcp> I don't think it is power management
<gordonjcp> after the card is ejected, the bus is still powered
<AlanBell> asherkin: so that is new stuff you wrote?
<AlanBell> is it open source?
<jacobw> it sounds if the major device file is being trunc'd
<asherkin> AlanBell: yeah, one of the issues I ran into was that storing the old png images was massively space consuming (it rendered one every time the graph changed, 3 months of a relatively quiet channel took over 3 GB), all the data for that is saved as JSON, hopefully it'll be easier to store (yay text compression) and do some nice visulizations over time
<asherkin> it will be, it's not really "ready" to be used yet
<AlanBell> so it is HTML5 and lots of javascript in the browser?
<asherkin> I'm sure Azelphur can drop a link in when it is, I'm not normally active on freenode :P
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<asherkin> JS and SVG, uses http://mbostock.github.com/d3/
<Azelphur> asherkin: all the cool people are on freenode
<popey> gordonjcp: #ubuntu-kernel during UK daytime
<AlanBell> it does seem rather CPU hungry asherkin
<gordonjcp> popey: oh well
<gordonjcp> popey: that's not going to be possible for me any time soon
<gordonjcp> Arch Linux it is, then
<popey> well, you can try outside work hours
<popey> i was just setting expectations
<asherkin> thats polling every 5 seconds and recalculating constantly, and with no caching, I pretty much disabled all the optimization for testing
<ali1234> those guys don't talk at any time
<popey> they do if you ask them questions
<gordonjcp> it's annoying because I've actually got to quite like Unity, but it's not packaged in any workable way for Arch
<jacobw> things are packaged in a workable for arch? :|
<popey> i wonder if that will change once 12.04 goes out
<popey> given there will be a relatively stable codebase to port
<Azelphur> I have 12.04 running on my phone :3
<AlanBell> arch does have a package manager, I understand it is simple and effective, but not sophisticated
<jacobw> yes, i was aluding to 'not sophisticated' :)
<AlanBell> I can see merit in a simple package manager, I have stuff I would like to package for Ubuntu but it is so hard
<ali1234> my question must have been too hard for them
<mattt> i like arch packaging
<mattt> i've never gotten my head around debian packaging
<gordonjcp> mattt: yeah
<gordonjcp> you have to be some sort of insane genius to understand the arcane closed world of Debian packaging
<jacobw> closed is the operative word
<mattt> gordonjcp: phew, thought it was just me
<gordonjcp> I tried to package lysdr for Ubuntu
<gordonjcp> not a chance
<mattt> i don't even know where to start w/ debian packaging
<mattt> even rpm seems 100x more straight-forward :D
<AlanBell> there are loads of places to start
<mattt> too many
<gordonjcp> debian packaging is basically a closed proprietary system
<mattt> that's maybe the problem
<mattt> all sorts of tools and ways of packaging debian packages
<jacobw> i would disagree
<gordonjcp> there's no documentation and no way to get started with it unless you're one of the Debian elite inner circle
<AlanBell> you kind of need to know what all the deprecated packaging methods are to know what you are supposed to use
<jacobw> it's just that there's much outdated documentation floating around
<ali1234> nah, rpm is no better in that respect
<jacobw> er, what AlanBell said :)
<ali1234> rpm is layers within layers
<ali1234> instead of debian/control you have a .spec file
<ali1234> except you're not supposed to write that yourself, you are supposed to generate it from a .yaml
<ali1234> but wait, you're not supposed to write the .yaml yourself either
<ali1234> there's a tool that makes that
<mattt> yaml?
<ali1234> i can't remember what file it takes as input
<mattt> wow, i guess i haven't played w/ RPM for ages :)
<gordonjcp> in Arch, you get a sample PKGBUILD file, fill in the blanks, and type "makepkg"
<ali1234> all the files are virtually identical
<ali1234> in the end they all contain the lines "configure; make; make install"
<gordonjcp> if you're being a total smartarse you do it in a chroot to ensure your deps are fulfilled correctly
<ali1234> plus extra hackery to make it work
<ali1234> yes, well, rpm and debian are identical
<mattt> perhaps
<ali1234> you get a blank file. you fill in the blanks
<mattt> but i can at least see the logic in making an RPM package, or at least was able to prior to yaml
<ali1234> you run rpmbuild or dkpg-buildpackage
<ali1234> simple right?
<jpds> gordonjcp: Actually, it's not a closed system.
<mattt> we should get a uk debian/ubuntu packager to go through the steps with us in person some time :)
<mattt> i can provide the location
<ali1234> yeah i've seen enough packaging demos to know that is a waste of time
<ali1234> they always demonstrate using "hello world"
<ali1234> anyone can package that
<AlanBell> I can't
<mattt> hahaha
<AlanBell> I have a hello world I want to package, it is here http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/quicklists.py
<jpds> ali1234: And it's the same under-lying principles for any other package.
<AlanBell> one python file that should run when you start a unity session
<mattt> gosh, packing python script is probably even more complicated
<ali1234> AlanBell: that's already much more complicated than packaging hello world
<AlanBell> I haven't got the faintest idea how to package that, apart from using quickly, which brings in all kinds of other stuff
<ali1234> you say it should "run when unity session"
<ali1234> how does that work? that's not a packaging issue
<ali1234> all the package manager can do is dump the file somewhere of your choosing, and maybe edit a file
<AlanBell> it should probably put it in startup applications or something
<ali1234> well packages can't do that directly
<ali1234> that is, they can't edit per-user configuration, at least not easily
<ali1234> so you need to find out how to add something to the default startup applications
<ali1234> note - that has nothing to do with packaging
<AlanBell> dropbox manages it
<jpds> AlanBell: apt-get source dropbox; look at the postinst file.
<gordonjcp> jpds: it's *effectively* a closed system, since it is entirely undocumented
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: it is overdocumented
<gordonjcp> jpds: or rather, extremely badly documented which is if anything slightly worse
<jpds> gordonjcp: Er, it is; you probably just don't want to read all the comprehensive docs.
<gordonjcp> it's also hideously overdesigned
<AlanBell> the debian packaging manual is huge
<jacobw> the debian project is huge :|
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/869042/ one dropbox postinst script
<Laney> for I in /home/*/.dropbox-dist; do
<Laney> no
<AlanBell> that doesn't look friendly
<ali1234> EW
<ali1234> ok, blueman adds itself to the list of startup apps when you install it, please use that as an example instead :)
<ali1234> but note that all it does in postinst is reload dbus
<Laney> /etc/xdg/autostart
<ali1234> so it must be possible to do it by dropping the right file in the right place
<AlanBell> Laney: ok, so the package should put a desktop file in there then?
<jpds> gordonjcp: Or rather it's the result of 19 years of engineering.
<ali1234> AlanBell: looks about right
<AlanBell> and it could put a different .desktop file in /usr/share/applications presumably
<AlanBell> there is actually a lot less scary stuff in the dropbox .deb file than I expected, just 4 files in the /debian directory
<Laney> right, and it's not a packaging issue, rather managed by a cross-desktop (fdo) draft specification
<AlanBell> so I make a filestructure in a folder with everything where I want it to go, make a /debian folder with those files in it (mostly empty) and zip it up and name it .deb
<jpds> As I said, the same under-lying principles; it's very easy.
<ali1234> AlanBell: no, not at all
<ali1234> well, the first part, sort of
<AlanBell> so do I have to figure out if I want to use debhelper dh cdbs dh_make  or something else?
<ali1234> you don't want to use any of that stuff
<Laney> you should go to #ubuntu-motu or #ubuntu-packaging fyi
<Laney> the latter for PPA stuff
<jpds> AlanBell: That's up to personal choice.
 * popey hugs debuild
<AlanBell> oh, I missed one
<AlanBell> pbuilder too probably
<Laney> some of those are tools for different tasks :-)
<ali1234> for a package that doesn't need to build anything, and which you are both maintainer and developer, you won't need any of that
<AlanBell> so I just write the control file in gedit directly?
<ali1234> sure. use a template
<ali1234> http://www.nerdliness.com/article/2007/08/27/creating-simple-ubuntu-debian-packages
<ali1234> that should be enough for getting 2 files into the fs
<AlanBell> giving it a go
<ali1234> now the problem with this method is you won't get a source package
<AlanBell> so that means no PPA
<ali1234> perhaps
<Laney> more importantly it means you get the wrong mental model of packaging
<Laney> nn
<AlanBell> so source packages are an orig.tar.bz2, plus a .dsc plus a debian.tar.gz
<AlanBell> nn Laney
<ali1234> AlanBell: i think the point is that your source should be "installable"
<ali1234> for a python script that generally means making a setup.py
<ali1234> http://savetheions.com/2010/01/20/packaging-python-applicationsmodules-for-debian/
<AlanBell> well my hacked together binary package doesn't work, I will try that guide sometime over the next few days
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: that's because it's a Debian "package"
<gordonjcp> they never entirely work, unless they're specially blessed by the packaging Inner Circle
<AlanBell> then again . . .
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Tottenham Court Road  3rd March 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=125
<AlanBell> I think I just need a dependency on python-wnck
<popey> hmm, my mums computer is on, but i suspect it has a different IP so the router port forwarding isnt working so I cant ssh to it
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: the package worked fundamentally
<AlanBell> popey: can she ssh to you?
<popey> she is in bed and has left it on
<popey> I know it's up, prey is checking in with my server
<popey> ah, i see
<popey> i just used landscape to remotely run ifconfig on it
<popey> the ethernet cable looks like it's fallen out
<popey> it has a wifi address but not a wired address, which is the one I port forwarded to
 * popey ponders sending wget the trublr deb
<jpds> gordonjcp: So, missing dependency == inner circle, I see.
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unity-window-quicklists.deb
<AlanBell> never install random deb files etc etc
<AlanBell> but I think that kind of works, it should probably start quicklists.py in the postinst, at the moment you have to log out and back in to get it to start
<gordonjcp> jpds: if it wasn't a closed proprietary system, it would be easier for normal developers to create Debian packages
<AlanBell> it isn't closed or proprietary
<AlanBell> it is just difficult
<popey> i have made packages in the past
<gordonjcp> it's not meaningfully documented, and it's only used by Debianish distros
<popey> not very good ones mind âº
<gordonjcp> and if you want to use it, you have to deal with the frankly rather hostile Debian "community"
<jpds> gordonjcp: So you're discounting the Ubuntu community?
<gordonjcp> jpds: apart from this channel, yes
<gordonjcp> jpds: this is about the only outpost of sanity in the #ubuntu channels
<jpds> gordonjcp: #ubuntu-motu maybe?
<popey> I've found the -motu people very helpful when I've needed to package stuff
<AlanBell> right, well that kind of works. I am done for now, might learn how to do it properly next week some time.
<ali1234> i thinkt he problem isn't that packaging is hard, it's that development got a lot easier
<ali1234> while packaging is still the same as it was 10 years ago
<ali1234> if you develop your software using autotools, packaging is easy
<ali1234> unfortunately only about 3 people understand how to use autotools
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-25
<danfish_wibble> morning
<dwatkins> hi folks
<daubers> Morning
<jacobw> morning guys
<dwatkins> my x86_64 machine at home has started randomly rebooting itself, I hope it's not the power supply
<dwatkins> has anyone else noticed this with the current AMD driver?
<ali1234> dwatkins: no, and i use mine for bitcoin mining
<ali1234> just updated it about a week ago too
<dwatkins> ali1234: which card do you have?
<dwatkins> I think I simply need a more powerful PSU.
<dwatkins> Perhaps Ubuntu doesn't handle power management the same as Windows, and spins something additional up after a couple hours which takes it over the threshold and it runs out of amps.
<ali1234> dwatkins: 5870
<dwatkins> similar to mine, probably needs at least a 750 Watt PSU, I imagine.
<ali1234> hah, no
<ali1234> i have a 400W PSU
<ali1234> and the machine uses no more than 300W at the wall when running at maximum load
<dwatkins> hmm, I wonder what else might be causing this, then - unless having two hard disks and a SATA blu-ray drive takes me over the limit of my PSU
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, all! :-D
<ali1234> maybe but i doubt it
<ali1234> the card is about 70% of power usage for me
<dwatkins> There's nothing in the logs which suggests a crash, so ran memtest86 over night
<dwatkins> Perhaps I should just leave it running for a day or two just to be sure.
<popey> can anyone identify the url in this shockingly bad photo? http://popey.com/~alan/whatisthis.jpg ? (bonus points for not pointing out it was taken from a car)
<popey> looks like www.pin2... or www.pim2... something
<dwatkins> popey: where? on the black car?
<popey> yes
<dwatkins> will see what I can find out
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<dwatkins> the elephant looks vaguely familiar in the logo
<ali1234> pinzyme.com
<bigcalm> Was it a bad driver you need to report?
<ali1234> checks out, same elephant logo
<popey> thanks
<ali1234> bigcalm: fo that number plate would be enough :)
<bigcalm> ali1234: to the police, sure. But one might want to contact a company 1st
<AlanBell> popey: I thought I would try a google reverse image search of the logo
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> never do that with pink things with safesearch turned off
<bigcalm> Nice way to start Monday morning
<ali1234> "unless you're into that kind of thing"
<bigcalm> AlanBell: your fault for having safe search turned off? :)
<popey> I did AlanBell âº
<AlanBell> I hadn't realised that it looked like that at all
<popey> and yes, found lots of odd unsavoury images, mostly of faces tho
<ali1234> did nobody consider just using autolevels to enhance the image?
<mungbean> google image search seems mostly colour matching
<popey> i had a fiddle in gimp, but wasn't sure which tool to use tbh
<diplo> ali1234: Installing Neccesitas ( sp? ) now, looks good so far though. Thanks for the heads up
<ali1234> popey: colours->levels
<popey> thanks
<ali1234> colour->hue and saturation sometimes helps too
<ali1234> though you can do same thing from levels
<popey> http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/25/4027018/lg-buys-webos-smart-tv  #blimey
<ali1234> in fact there's really only two operations, levels and convolve - these are the raw form of every other function
<ali1234> hmm i thought webos went open source?
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> so... thet bought the development team?
<diplo> Last year we heard that LG was working on a smart TV based on Open webOS
<diplo>   #blimey
<diplo> c&p fail!
<diplo> http://www.webosnation.com/gram-working-lg-open-webos-tv
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<redtape-renegade> morning .. are the kids still on holiday ?
<popey> not ours
<diplo> Depends where you are, my kids were off the week before last. So this is their 2nd week back :)
<Azelphur> I think in some places it's off for another 2 weeks
<davmor2> Morning all
<Azelphur> morning
<Azelphur> I had a fun morning, told my landlord I'm starting the process of suing him
<mgdm> o_O
<dwatkins> Azelphur: sounds like fun...
<Azelphur> indeed
<dwatkins> msy I ask what they did to you?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: I've been living here for 4 months with a drain in my driveway with no cover, broken gutters that turn my driveway into a waterfall every time it rains, no letterbox, broken washing machine, oven, extractor fan, fire alarms sounding for up to 6 hour stints while the landlord ignores the "24/7 available emergency phone line" stipulated in the contract, he promised gated access to entice me to move in, then never did it...
<dwatkins> Azelphur: crikey :-/ on the up-side, it sounds like you have a strong case
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> oh also the area outside my house (which is the landlords property, but I have to walk through it to get to my house) is simply disgusting, trash everywhere, it's started accumulating dead animals.
<Azelphur> and the lower level has busted drains, so it fills up with up to 3 inches of water, which makes the trash smell even nicer.
<brobostigon> :(
<Azelphur> nothing like rain water and trash in the morning :P
<brobostigon> ewwww
<Azelphur> I'm surprised those lower level flats havn't flooded in all honesty
<Azelphur> I saw the water right up on their doorstep once
<Azelphur> literally 1cm higher and it would have been in
<brobostigon> also isnt that illegal, unhygenic living conditions. ?
<Azelphur> yep, multiple section 11 violations, breaches of contract, etc
<Azelphur> legal advisor told me that I can sue him, get a forced repair order put out, and get compensation
<brobostigon> sounds like a good start,
<Azelphur> indeed
<mgdm> I'd start looking for alternatives, too :-)
<Azelphur> mgdm: plenty of alternatives in this road, they just built a really nice new block at the end of the street.
<Azelphur> this road has a government restoration project going on, so there's lots of new stuff available.
<MsCourtney> Hi
<popey> hello
<dwatkins> lo
<davmor2> hello
 * neuro yawns
<neuro> oscars are not conducive to sleep
<czajkowski> were they any good?
<popey> people watch that live!?
<popey> *boggle*
<neuro> i would have watched it all in one go live
<neuro> but i was watching it via NowTV
<neuro> (aka Sky's "you don't have to subscribe to Sky to watch Sky Movies" IPTV thing)
<neuro> it fell over very hard for about an hour and a quarter about 40 mins into the ceremony
<neuro> and considering they'd lured new users in with a 30 day free trial, specifically promoting the fact they'd show the oscars live, it's a bit of a shame
<neuro> and compared to netflix, nowtv is a bit of a joke
<neuro> very poor catalogue (basically whatever's airing on sky movies right now), poor HD ondemand quality, no HD for live channels (you can watch all the sky movies channels as they air)
<neuro> and they seem to crash a lot
<neuro> czajkowski: and yes, i thought they were good
<neuro> didn't agree with best director, but the right film won best film
<neuro> bit of a travesty that affleck wasn't nominated for best dir tho
<neuro> popey: but yes, to more succinctly answer your question, because I consider myself a movie buff, yes, I usually watch the Oscars as they air
<neuro> lots of people do
<popey> yeah, I sit up and watch election results come in, same thing I guess
<neuro> it's like watching a football game or a grand prix, i'd rather watch it live and find out the results in real time than have to dodge the news for up to 24h until I see the highlights or a recording :)
<BigRedS> Is there an easy way to find out why a package that was once in the repos no longer is?
<popey> do you have a specific example or is this a general enq?
<BigRedS> yeah, imapsync
<BigRedS> but, in general, it seems that there should be a link somewhere in my search results saying why lucid was the last to have it
<popey> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=609845
<lubotu3> Debian bug 609845 in ftp.debian.org "RM: imapsync -- ROM; no longer distributable" [Important,Open]
<popey> "The author of the software cleary stated, that he wished to no longer
<popey> have his software distributed in Debian."
<BigRedS> Oh, fair enough. I guess a lot of the time a package falls out of Ubuntu 'cause Debian stops packaging it?
<BigRedS> just would be nice to have an easy link for where a package went and what I'm supposed to do instead for any package that I might be expecting to still find
<davmor2> Hmmmmmmmm Moby Extreme Ways is a funky tune god bless the bourne trilogy for highlighting it for me :)
<mgdm> it's a good tune but it's more or less a clone of one off Play
<popey> BigRedS: yeah, i generally just google for "debian dropped <packagename" or "removed" and find out pretty quickly
<davmor2> BigRedS: there is the ability to back track on https;//apps.ubuntu.com/cat/  search for the pacakge and then on the package details you can see version numbers, or via packages.ubuntu.com  tracking why it was dropped is something else all together
<BigRedS> yeah, it's the why it was dropped that seemed to be something that would be obviously recorded somewhere linked to from the packages record on packages.[ubuntu|debian].[com|org]
<davmor2> BigRedS: Yes I think the issue is how to display it if the package no longer exists if that makes sense
<BigRedS> yeah
<neuro> jings
<neuro> â¬50 for imapsync
<redtape-renegade> Went to Port Erin today for a Pint . Told a bloke he'd missed a sport , Bloke wasn't happy :) https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Port%20Erin%20at%202pm.JPG
<redtape-renegade> **spot..
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: that string is .. incredible
<MartijnVdS> how does it stay up?
<mgdm> I think it's more an artifact of the panorama generation
<MartijnVdS> I know
<MartijnVdS> but still!
<MartijnVdS> Also... ISLE OF MAN, Y U STEAL SUN!?
<MartijnVdS> (or clear skies at least)
<SuperMatt> wait, isle of man has sun?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: tax reasons
<SuperMatt> oh, of course
<SuperMatt> The Sun has got to store all the money he saves for a rainy day
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: Hi .. looks like I missed my 15 minutes of fame today ?
<ali1234> we seem to have a bit of an explosion of mobile ux...
<ubuntubhoy> choice is good ali1234
<popey> heh
<redtape-renegade> I'm feeling slightly light headed on my left side . Not sure if it's my left ear or brain cancer ?? Is there a Doctor in the house ?
<AlanBell> http://hackntalk.eventbrite.com/ weekend after next in London
<AlanBell> and a hangout online
<redtape-renegade> ooh cool ..
<redtape-renegade> opening...
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting 16/02/2013 20:00 | ubuntuî¿ | http://hackntalk.eventbrite.com/
<popey> hmm, meeting date needs fixing
<davmor2> popey: all the time in the world and you came up with this "Letâs talk about six, baby:" ........... What a steaming pile of Awesome :)
<redtape-renegade> mmm London .. do they do raspberry pi stuff ??
<popey> "they"?
<redtape-renegade> at the meeting ?
<davmor2> popey: the collective you then ;)
<redtape-renegade> this could possible be a cluster-fcuk  .. Lets address the problems ppl face with this topic to help them.
<popey> what?
<redtape-renegade> Well how do we get there e.g. ?
<popey> where? HackNTalk?
<redtape-renegade> yep.
<popey> I would use whatever navigation system was at my disposal to get me to the address presented on the web page linked above.
 * AlanBell points in the direction of Google + hangouts
<redtape-renegade> Can we comment on a webpage, somewhere ?
 * AlanBell will be using a train to get there in person
<redtape-renegade> Aahh
 * AlanBell is slightly confused by the current conversation
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Is the 'hangout' scheduled ?
 * popey is also somewhat confused
<redtape-renegade> I'm just ironing out creases..
<popey> Oh, I do enjoy ironing
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Is the 'hangout' scheduled ?
<AlanBell> not scheduled yet, things are flexible
<ali1234> redtape-renegade: topics are decided on the day
<AlanBell> we can leave it running, and there might be other stuff going on that isn't related
<ahayzen> is it where the lorry is on Google Street view? in the etc.venues? or is it the next block?
<ali1234> it's highly likely raspberry pi will be involved somehow but if not, you can offer to do a presentation yourself
<redtape-renegade> Aaah .. I read it is an un-conference type thingy , Oh I get it now .. a kinda drop-in.
 * AlanBell has not looked at the venue yet, but I am sure it will be findable
<redtape-renegade> So if I get this correct.. it's basically a google  -bash ??
<AlanBell> not really
<redtape-renegade> oh OK.
<AlanBell> the venue happens to belong to Google, and Google hangouts happen to be good video conferencing technology
<AlanBell> but other than that Google is uninvolved
<ahayzen> AlanBell, who is expected to be attending?
<redtape-renegade> Will ubuntupodcast uk be doing interviews on the day for the podcast ?
<AlanBell> me \o/
<AlanBell> and possibly some others
<ahayzen> :)
<popey> redtape-renegade: possibly, if one (or more) of us goes
<redtape-renegade> popey: cool.
<redtape-renegade> cant wait till the 27th.
 * redtape-renegade requires a shave .. 
<bubu\a> hey dudes, any reason why I'm getting this trying to get to my router on a new isntall of 12.10? ssh: Could not resolve hostname 10.10.0.1:2222: Name or service not known
<bubu\a> the ports open and I can ping 10.10.0.1
<Azelphur> bubu\a: route -n | pastebinit
<bubu\a> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5565843/
<bubu\a> looks ok no?
<Azelphur> yea, says your router is 10.10.0.1
<Azelphur> so, dunno, odd.
<bubu\a> i know
<bubu\a> wtf
<Azelphur> bubu\a: what happens if you telnet 10.10.0.1 22
<bubu\a> I can hit it, get the banner
<bubu\a> i
<Azelphur> that means your ssh server is running on port 22 not 2222 ;)
<bubu\a> no its running on 2222
<bubu\a> i tenetted to 2222
<Azelphur> ah ok, odd then
 * dwatkins suspects he is hitting bug 561210
<lubotu3> bug 561210 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "Writing big files to NFS target causes system lock up" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/561210
<dwatkins> I increases the wsize and rsize sysctl values for a couple network parameters and the system hasn't rebooted itself this time around
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Profiled haz I ?? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Singles%20advert.png
<redtape-renegade> http://youtu.be/u0I7dByeTt4?t=15m9s Nice .. I want one ...
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: three laps around the Isle and it's empty :P
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: Haha ! .. I liked your posts earlier .. v. true.
<MartijnVdS> Time for sleep.. more openwrt + 802.11s tomorrow :)
<redtape-renegade> ok good luck .. my continental friend :)
<popey> blimey, he's a terrible public speaker
<czajkowski> popey: who is ?
<ali1234> the tesla guy
<redtape-renegade> popey, true , but he chooses his sentences carefully.. thats why he's a billionaire ..
<ali1234> he's a billionaire because he founded paypal
<AlanBell> very nice car though
<popey> yes, very nice car#
<popey> redtape-renegade: he so doesn't choose sentences carefully
<AlanBell> that wasn't well rehearsed, he should have had an autocue
<popey> yeah
<popey> he said a few negative things about the car, which you should never do in a product launch
<AlanBell> indeed, he said it was awkward getting into the third row or something
<AlanBell> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Elon_Musk.jpg/320px-Elon_Musk.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/31/ZeframCochrane1.jpg you be the judge
<popey> hah
<dwatkins> ali1234: my machine seems to have stopped rebooting itself since I implemented the sysctl changes in bug 561210, despite it being logged against a much older kernel :)
<lubotu3> bug 561210 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "Writing big files to NFS target causes system lock up" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/561210
<ali1234> wow... i don't use NFS
<ali1234> never had anything but bad experiences with it
<dwatkins> ali1234: what do you use to cross-mount filesystems between linux boxen?
<ali1234> i don't
<dwatkins> ahh :)
<ali1234> i just scp everything
<ali1234> i only have one "computer" anyway
<ali1234> and the mythtv
<dwatkins> fair enough, I tend to mount filesystems and use them as an extension to my local disk, keeping media on them etc.
<ali1234> but that streams on it's own protocol
<ali1234> i have a NAS... it runs samba i guess. i dunno, it just appears in "my network"
<dwatkins> I like messing around with getting all my media accessible from every device, including the Raspberry Pi and the xbox.
<ali1234> or whatever ubuntu calls it
<ali1234> might be using the apple sharing stuff actually
<ali1234> it "just works"
 * dwatkins nods
<dwatkins> I might see if I can mount via AFP, seeing as I have it setup for my laptop
<dwatkins> looks like it's not built-in
<dwatkins> hmm, that's way too many i386 packages for worrying about at bedtime, will have a look tomorrow, ttfn folks
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-26
<redtape-renegade> I sat down this morning , and my office chair collapsed.   My chair called me fat.  :(   :: http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ed36fa1ab6/between-two-ferns-with-zach-galifianakis-steve-carell?playlist=135161
<knightwise> morning everyone
<aptanet> o/
<AlanBell> o/
<jacobw> morning
<daubers> Morning
<popey> morning
<jacobw> does anyone use skype manager company directory?
<daubers> jacobw: skype what what?
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<jacobw> daubers: it's a shared roster for skype
<BigRedS> I've only just heard of it and already I feel sorry for you
<czajkowski> aloha
<BigRedS> G'morning!
<mungbean> guys, hwo can i fix a problem with ssh -X where the gui isn't display over ssh X forwarding?
<mungbean> connect /tmp/.X11-unix/X0: No such file or directory
<mungbean> X connection to localhost:10.0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdown).
<dwatkins> mungbean: is it enabled on the server?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> x forwarding allowed
<dwatkins> X11Forwarding yes
<mungbean> uyep
<dwatkins> in /etc/ssh/ssd_config
<mungbean> yesh
<mungbean> works on other hosts
<mungbean> am running X server on the client
<dwatkins> sorry, dunno, perhaps move ~/.ssh to one side on the affected client.
<dwatkins> Got a meeting, back later; good luck
<Laney> the sriracha came \o/
<Laney> it's pretty warm eh?
<popey> \o/
<popey> its good with omlette
<popey> s/omlette/anything/
<Laney> perhaps it'll help me to destroy this cold
<popey> box'o'tissues at the ready!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<Laney> amazon packaged it really weirdly
<Laney> stuffed in an envelope that you'd get a dvd in
<Laney> so it was bulging and disintegrating
<mungbean> hi anyone, any suggestions re my ssh -X problem?
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<mungbean> what's going on with tomby+ubuntu one? did tomboy add the functionality required yet?
<popey> not heard anything
<redtape-renegade> Just so I know ( on the awesome scale ) .. How Awesome are modern Xeon processors for a new Ubuntu desktop system ??
<dwatkins> this awesome [                     ]
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins: Authome !!
<dwatkins> yesh
<redtape-renegade> I dont know how to get rid of a bad libreoffice install on Lubuntu 12.10 .. Here's the pastebin | http://paste.ubuntu.com/5567581/
<redtape-renegade> How do I get rid of Libreoffice ?? Also sioftware centre doesn't open anymore .. When is Ubuntu 13.04 coming out so I can Upgrade ??
<popey> redtape-renegade: sudo apt-get install libreoffice-base-core --reinstall
<redtape-renegade> thanx
<redtape-renegade> yeah I get exactly the same result :(
<redtape-renegade> do you want me to pastebin the result ? Siorry I know this is a bit much too ask .. :(
<popey> redtape-renegade: apt-cache policy libreoffice-base-core
<redtape-renegade> ok ..
<redtape-renegade> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5567593/ no luck .. I think this is something that I cant fix, though...
<popey> redtape-renegade: pastebin the contents of /etc/apt/sources.list  please
<redtape-renegade> ok
<mungbean> been checking the mailing lists for tomboy
<mungbean> not much progress.
<mungbean> big shame
<popey> not surprised
<mungbean> tomboy+u1 sync was one of my favourite apps
<popey> ditto
<ali1234> you can't really blame them
<redtape-renegade> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5567612/  Sorry if my pastebining is not up-to to scratch ..
<ali1234> u1 seems to be permanent beta
<mungbean> i guess i don't need mono anymore then
<popey> redtape-renegade: thats not what I was after
<popey> redtape-renegade: the file /etc/apt/sources.list, not the contents of files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
<redtape-renegade> oh sorry .. how do I do it then ?
<popey> gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
<popey> and then paste that into paste.ubuntu.com
<popey> or if you have pastebinit installed "pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list
<redtape-renegade> ok
<mungbean> any opinions on this as a soplution? http://askubuntu.com/questions/51095/how-can-i-sync-gnote-notes
<redtape-renegade> popey, It wont let me even install gedit ?? .. I think my system is foobar ..
<popey> no no, sorry..
<popey> i assumed you had gedit, but you're lubuntu, hang on
<popey> just open a terminal and "cat /etc/apt/sources.list"
<popey> then select it all and paste it into paste.ubuntu.com
<sagaci> leafpad
<redtape-renegade> ok got it hangon..
<popey> sagaci: thanks
<redtape-renegade> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5567632/  Thanx.
<popey> you upgraded to raring?
<redtape-renegade> have I ?
<popey> well you have raring in your sources.list
<redtape-renegade> how do i check ?
<popey> lsb_release -a
<redtape-renegade> ok hangon..
<redtape-renegade> says 12./10 .. do you want another pastebin of that ?
<redtape-renegade> **12.10
<popey> ok, so you probably want to fix your /etc/apt/sources.list
<popey> sudo leafpad /etc/apt/sources.list
<popey> and change references to raring back to quantal
<popey> and then "sudo apt-get update" "sudo apt-get upgrade"
<redtape-renegade> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5567641/
<popey> which should get you back on track
<redtape-renegade> ok will do thank-you popey ...
<DJones> popey: Does raring give a 13.04 result for lsb_release -a ? When I looked at a 13.04 install in a vm, it showed 12.10 as did About Ubuntu
<popey> Release:	13.04
<popey> it did early on
<popey> not now
<brobostigon> that was funny, on the local bbc news, the monster raving loony party, eastleigh candidate was shown, i couldnt help but laugh.
<DJones> That explains it
<ali1234> popey: do you have /opt/qt5 ?
 * redtape-renegade is in too deep .. & cant see the woods for the trees with " sudo leafpad /etc/apt/sources.list " then change all the references to " quantal " .. I think I'll just die quietly now ..
<popey> ali1234: yes
<popey> redtape-renegade: search and replace, most editors have that
<ali1234> hmm. for me, qmlscene segfaults unless i move /opt/qt5 somewhere else
<redtape-renegade> oh ok .. thanx..
<popey> erk
<ali1234> but it only segfaults when using Ubuntu.Components
<ali1234> i'm gooing to reinstall :(
<ali1234> was hoping to wait until raring is released but oh well
<popey> oh, full OS reinstall?
<popey> erk
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> no other choice
<ali1234> PPAs have ruined my system
<popey> i try to avoid that by purging PPAs and reinstalling base packages
<ali1234> i did purge them
<popey> sudo apt-get install package/raring
<ali1234> it didn't help
<popey> etc
<popey> so it downgrades things
<ali1234> apt-get wants me to autoremove nvidia-common
<redtape-renegade> ok seems to have worked .. thanx popey .. I'm rebooting ...
<bigcalm> cx
<bigcalm> Thanks kittah
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahahahaha that's a cat saying "I am the cat you're looking for........Fuss me............Fuss Me now........................You may go about your business move along......move along"
<bigcalm> davmor2: pretty much
<popey> my cats have left the room â¹
<bigcalm> Mine has just upped and left due to lack of pettings
<davmor2> popey: it a hint to stop eating sprouts ;)
<bigcalm> Thunderbird isn't remembering window size or location upon restart. Is there a fix for that?
<popey> not that I'm aware of
<davmor2> bigcalm: restart of the machine or restart of Thunderbird
<bigcalm> davmor2: restart of Thunderbird
<bigcalm> So restart of machine as well :)
<bigcalm> I don't mind so much about location, it's more the size that's bugging me
<brobostigon> is there something like pastebin, but for images insted ?
<brobostigon> pastebinit, i mean.
<ali1234> sadly, no
<brobostigon> ok, ohwell.
<popey> yes there is
<ali1234> shutter can do it from a gui
 * popey tries to remember what it's called
<ali1234> but that kind of defeats the purpose
<popey> picpaste?
<popey> nah, can't remember
<ali1234> that is a website
<davmor2> brobostigon: just use u1 and share the link
<ali1234> like imagebin
<ali1234> davmor2: how to do that from command line?
<brobostigon> davmor2: i dont think that will work, it is my raspberry pi, acting as a camera server, hence i was asking for a terminal solution, hence mentioning pastebinit.
<redtape-renegade> popey.. It worked .. Who do i give the paypal check to ?
<davmor2> brobostigon: ah sorry, have a look at pastebinit and see if it has an image setting
<davmor2> brobostigon: as far as I knew it did cover different urls for pasting
<ali1234> pastebinit doesn't do images afaik but it may ormay not be easy to add
<brobostigon> thats what i thought,
<redtape-renegade> How do I open " jockey-gtk " please ?
<kvarley> redtape-renegade: Alt + F2 and then type jockey-gtk and hit enter
<redtape-renegade> says there is no such directory .. even though I know it is installed (??)
<kvarley> redtape-renegade: In 12.10 you can hit the Super key (Windows key) and type software sources and load that app and then you can find the additional drivers app in a tab on that window
<redtape-renegade> I'm in Lubuntu but I have soft sources open ..
<kvarley> redtape-renegade: Is there a tab called additional drivers or something similar?
<redtape-renegade> It just says there are no additional drivers in use .. with no other options ..
<redtape-renegade> do you want screenshot ?
<kvarley> redtape-renegade: That's weird, it usually shows a list of proprietary drivers available to you. What drivers are you trying to install?
<redtape-renegade> I cant do wifi .. there aren't any aditional drivers installed .. so i guess all that I can poss. get..
<DJones> redtape-renegade: jockey-gtk doesn't do anything in 12.10 its been included in Software Sources and there is an Additional drivers tab
<redtape-renegade> right I'll do a screenshot .. hangon ..
<redtape-renegade> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Additional%20drivers%20screenshot%2026th%20Feb%202013.png
<kvarley> redtape-renegade: Might be of some use to you - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessTroubleShootingGuide
<redtape-renegade> opening...
<kvarley> If this is for a laptop, searching online for ubuntu + name of laptop + wifi might yield some results on the ubuntuforums
<redtape-renegade> kvarley: There doesn't seem to be anything relevant on the forums or askubuntru .. I'm wondering why it says that I am connected when I'm not even configured yet ?? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5567823/
<redtape-renegade> Sorry if this taking up too much time for people ..
<redtape-renegade> I tried " sudo apt-get install ndisgtk " but it cant find the package .. ??
 * redtape-renegade has a break .. BRBack ..
<directhex> !rmadison ndisgtk
<lubotu3> directhex: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<directhex> hmph
<directhex> !info ndisgtk
<lubotu3> ndisgtk (source: ndisgtk): graphical frontend for ndiswrapper (installation of Windows WiFi drivers). In component main, is optional. Version 0.8.5-1 (quantal), package size 20 kB, installed size 864 kB (Only available for i386; amd64)
<popey> eww
<directhex> yeah, i know
<ali1234> you don; use those any more
<directhex> what is this, 2003?
<ali1234> redtape-renegade: run software-properties-gtk and go to last tab (additional drivers)
<ali1234> if there's nothing in that... well, i guess there are no proprietary drivers available for your hardware?
<ali1234> it certainly look like it is already working in your paste
<directhex> which wifi chips have no linux drivers at all, in 2013?
<ali1234> none
<popey> redtape-renegade: run "lspci" and "nm-tool" and pastebin the output pls
<ali1234> also dmesg
<ali1234> always dmesg
<ali1234> it might be missing a firmware only or something
<ali1234> but if it says it is working i wonder why you're even worrying about it...
<redtape-renegade> Well everything is ticked to tell me and theres nothing in Additional proprietory drivers tab .. I have a Samsung N135 .. and the N140 is listed as having them :: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ndiswrapper/index.php?title=Category:Samsung
<redtape-renegade> ok popey.
<redtape-renegade> results .. http://paste.ubuntu.com/5567859/
<redtape-renegade> be nice to install pastebin too .. I'll have a look ..
<popey> your wifi and wired are fully supported
<popey> and working
<popey> i can see 3 access points on that list
<redtape-renegade> how do i use them then ?
<redtape-renegade> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Wifi%20useage%20access.png
<redtape-renegade> I'm losty as how I log onto them ??
<popey> dont use that dialog
<popey> do you have a network manager icon in your panel?
<redtape-renegade> oh sorry..
<redtape-renegade> no but i may be able to add it .. hang-on..
<popey> that dialog is usually used for maintaining connection details _after_ you have successfully connected to an AP at least once
<popey> sorry, i dont know lubuntu at all
<popey> is there not a network icon in the panel at all that you can single click on to get a list of access points?
<popey> http://popey.com/webcam/
<popey> pussy cat!
<bigcalm> \o/
<redtape-renegade> no, or at least it isn't obvious on investigation .. dont worry popey .. you've help me out so much today .. I will ask #lubuntu .. thank-you...:)
<bigcalm> popey: white balance could do with a tweak ;)
<popey> default on the camera
<popey> dunno how to change it
<popey> maybe some imagemagick could post-process it?
<bigcalm> popey: threaten it with a soldering iron
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> You could do post processing, aye
<mgdm> what are you using to stream it?
<mgdm> Last time, I used mjpeg_streamer, which I think has options for WB adjustment
<mgdm> it was a while ago
<popey> the camera has a built in webserver
<bigcalm> I wonder is Sky knows he's being watched
<popey> I am just doing a wget on my server to grab a still now and then
<bigcalm> I still haven't done anything with my webcam. I don't know if it even works
<ali1234> *watching webcam expecting to see cat do a slam dunk*
<popey> i did very little with mine
<popey> he hears the motor and comes to investigate
<popey> gah, nautilus really is properly worse now
<directhex> ._. a windows 8 phone.
<directhex> http://blogs.seattletimes.com/brierdudley/2013/02/25/new-windows-8-pc-phone-revealed-plus-tablet-and-desktop/
<BigRedS> Is there somewhere a repostiory I can point a maverick machine at to get updates?
<BigRedS> no, not updates, just new software of the same obsolescence
<BigRedS> archive.ubuntu.com seems LTS only
<BigRedS> Aha! http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
<popey> !old-releases
<popey> hmm, there must be a factoid for that
<popey> !unsupported
<popey> pffft
<BigRedS> haha, I assumed archive.ubuntu.com and I'm not sure why there's a distinction...
<ali1234> BigRedS: i think it's so that you actuallly notice when it stops working
<popey> also so it's not mirrored
<BigRedS> oh, is archive.ubuntu.com not just old stuff?
<BigRedS> ah yeah, the old things are LTSs
<popey> and non-LTS
<popey> everything is on there
<popey> i.e. everything which is now End Of Life
<BigRedS> on archive.ubuntu.com? Maverick isn't
<BigRedS> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/
<Laney> on old-releases
<BigRedS> oh. yeah. I got that earlier
<BigRedS> I was wondering why *some* old stuff was on archive.ubuntu.com, but I guess that's 'cause it's old LTSes and they're still supported
<Laney> only LTSes that are in support are on there
<popey> ya, that
<Laney> hardy still is
<BigRedS> yeah
<awilkins> Is there an easy way to get gvfs 1.15.2 or newer in Quantal?
 * awilkins can't believe that they didn't get MTP support in given the position of Google / Android on MTP 
<bootloader> Greeting Ubuntu people could anyone help me with my QTCreator install problem, the forums were not useful at all.
 * awilkins adds Phillip Langdale's MTP backports PPA
<awilkins> bootloader, !ask
<awilkins> Hmm, the bot is not bahving as expected
<awilkins> Don't ask to ask, just ask
<AlanBell> !ask | awilkins
<lubotu3> awilkins: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<dwatkins> ask > bootloader
<dwatkins> oops
<dwatkins> !ask > bootloader
<lubotu3> bootloader, please see my private message
<dwatkins> oh sorry, I probably should have used | so it wrote it here
<AlanBell> !botsnack
<lubotu3> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
<bootloader> Thanks, ok QTCreator doesn't load from the icon, the command line gives, this qtcreator: error while loading shared libraries: libQt5Widgets.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory. Strace returns a big list of similar errors the one from the command line being the last one.
<MartijnVdS> 802.11s is cool!
<AlanBell> bootloader: how did you install it?
<MartijnVdS> if anyone ever needs to set up a wifi mesh using openwrt, ask me :)
<AlanBell> can my OLPC join it MartijnVdS?
<bootloader> software store
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: if it's 802.11s + SAE, yes
<MartijnVdS> (SAE = "Simultaneous Authentication as Equals", basically WPA-PSK for meshes)
<AlanBell> bootloader: what version of Ubuntu?
<AlanBell> (it works for me on raring)
<bootloader> 12.10, just following through the mobile tutorial
<AlanBell> bootloader: actually you might be better off asking in #ubuntu-touch, there are probably more people who have been through that process there
<bootloader> Ok thanks
<amayer> One more day until ubuntu-uk podcast. cant wait!
<popey> yay
<amayer> its been too long
<chrisfxwolf> Hi
<chrisfxwolf> oups Xchatgnome colapse
<tashs> hey hey
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-27
<Klettbar> what's best distribution atm trendy
<Klettbar> very fast boot with gnome and teh packages of debian ubuntu
<Klettbar> i d like flashy boot
<Klettbar> 1 2 3
<tashs> sorry buys.....silly question
<tashs> what kinda of channel is this?
<Klettbar> i am silly not the cahnnel
<Klettbar> silly/lazy
<tashs> silly works
<tashs> as long as silly is funny
<Klettbar> never
<tashs> oh thats tragic
<Klettbar> only if you put it in tv
<Klettbar> then it has authority
<tashs> interesting take
<AlanBell> morning all
<jacobw> morning AlanBell and all
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> good morning eveyrone.
<diplo> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<diplo> Guys, distro agnostic check. We're writing a script to do some checks on certain things with our servers/customer servers
<diplo> One of things that my boss wants is install date of the distro
<diplo> From what I've found on the web, there is no defined way to find out as different distros store it in different locations, anyone got any suggestions
<diplo> atm I beleing we are doing something out of /etc against a file name and awk :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<brobostigon> o/
<popey> diplo: detect distro version and then have a distro-specific bit of code to detect install date
<diplo> yeah, pretty much what I'm going for already
<popey> and it depends how it was installed, if it was clean install, upgrade, or deployed with some other too like puppet
<diplo> Just no defined way it seems :)
<diplo> Be great if there was a defined way like there is in Windows/Mac :)
<BigRedS> if you've installed by rsyncing off some other disk then you've no hope
<BigRedS> Just redefine "install date of the distro" to "mtime of /" and you're away :)
<Laney> Modify: 2013-02-21 11:04:31.786300000 +0000
<Laney> not sure about that one
<diplo> yeah that doesnt work either
<diplo> install.log on centos seems to be the most common way
<Laney> ext* store the filesystem creation date
<Laney> dunno if that's reliable enough for you
<Laney> you can get it with dumpe2fs
<popey> if you install over the top you might not get a new fs tho
<Laney> "dunno if that's reliable enough for you"
 * popey shuts up
<BigRedS> but you haven't said anything for a while!
<BigRedS> Hm. I want an Intel NUC that's already complete (with ram and disk and everything). Anyone seen a place selling them?
<diplo> Laney: yeah would work in most places, but I've extended and changed a few sites which would break that
<Laney> just cram a bunch of grim tests together and take the earliest date you find
<diplo> Wish the kernel or Distro would all write to /etc/install-date or something :)
<Laney> like looking in /var/log/installer/syslog
<diplo> yeah, currently what I'm doing
<Laney> getting all of the mtimes in /etc and taking the earliest one
<Laney> etc
<diplo> Was hoping someone would say, nah just grep this and it's the same everywhere :)
<BigRedS> hahahaha
<popey> "I wish there was a single consistent way to do X" -- Everyone, ever, using Linux.
<Laney> I bet systemd gives you a consistent way to get this :)
<diplo> I understand that statement with applications etc, but more system based stuff I'd like to see it configured the same
<popey> Developers in "I have a better way to do that" non-shocker
<BigRedS> yeah, and so would many people. Each one with their own idea of which one should be standardised on
<ali1234> check /proc/config.gz
<ali1234> what do you mean you don't build kernels from source?
<diplo> :)
<mungbean> how do i set a channel as sticky/unstick a channel>
<directhex> i was watching tron the night before last
<directhex> you know how the master control program keeps eating the small, single-task programs to absorb their funvtionality, and rule the system unopposed?
<directhex> all i could think was "systemd"
<davmor2> popey: "I wish there was a single consistent way to do audio" -- Everyone, ever, using Linux. I think is right behind it :)
<davmor2> directhex: maybe that is where he got the idea
<directhex> there *is* a standard way to do audio.
<directhex> http://xkcd.com/927/
<davmor2> directhex: I'm awaiting the announcement of linux being rebranded systemd to be honest :D
<directhex> systemdinux!
<popey> we're nearly there... "The GNU/Linux System" Just needs a "D" added
<Azelphur> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2538015025.png whee \o/
<dwatkins> directhex: that XKCD is kinda relevant to the most recent one, in a sense
<popey> \o/ Azelphur
<Azelphur> pretty cool, I get ~30ms less latency to my server, too
<Azelphur> been waiting since november \o/
<directhex> to infinity and beyond!
<Azelphur> hehe
<mungbean> is http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/bladecenter/hardware/servers/hs23/index.html down for everyone or just me?
<Azelphur> the infinity modem just acts as a bridge too, so worked straight away with my existing router
<aptanet> bah, Infinity has slipped again for my exchange :(
<popey> Error 137 (net::ERR_NAME_RESOLUTION_FAILED): Unknown error.
<popey> mungbean: ^
<mungbean> ibm fail
<aptanet> sept 2012. Jan 2013, March 2013 no end of June 2013 :(
<popey> Host www-03.ahe.boulder.ibm.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
<mungbean> must be running on ibm servers too then
<AlanBell> token ring fail
<mungbean> their blades crash on us ALL the time
<popey> Inserting into ring!
<mungbean> :-Z
<davmor2> popey: you should be ashamed of yourself :D
<popey> â¹  it's what they say when they boot
<mungbean> maybe in the 90s
<Oli``> Azelphur: So jealous. No cable, not even an ETA for Infinity.
<Laney> sun! sky!
<Laney> SUNSKYSUNSKYSUN
<diplo> Clouds!!
<Laney> only wispy ones
<Laney> they are acceptable
<diplo> Totally covered here :( still very windy as well :/
<Azelphur> do you still need filters with BT infinity?
<AlanBell> no
<Azelphur> talktalk can have their filters back then xD
<AlanBell> you get an extra box
<mungbean> does anyone use the zinio app for reading magazines?
<mungbean> it appears to save the magazines as pdfs locally but passwrod encrypted
<mungbean> i wanted to discover how to unlock them for future use when zinio doesn't exist anymore
<redtape-renegade> Hi there .. I'm talking to you today, from the magical World of Xubuntu ..
<redtape-renegade> .. I'm trying it out for the first time today ..
<redtape-renegade> .. much better than Lubuntu :)
<redtape-renegade> .. I wonder if they do dropbox .. lets have a look .. :)
<redtape-renegade> yep .. ooooh today is a *good* day :D
<davmor2> beeping beeping beep beeping virgin why can't they improve the network at night
<Dave2> are you a vehicle that's reverseing?
<Dave2> revsrseing
<Dave2> ...reversing
<davmor2> Dave2: no I was making the blue air here less blue for the channel
<redtape-renegade> I was just wondering ...
<redtape-renegade> Do you think that the economic crisis will mean that FSF gets more money because people are trying out their software for free or do you think more money in people's pocket usually means more donations ?
<redtape-renegade>               Do FSF even publish accounts ?
<popey> http://www.fsf.org/about/financial
<jacobw> redtape-renegade: i think very few people use GNU software contribute to the FSF
<jacobw> redtape-renegade: they make things like binutils and gdb and octave, nobody ever thinks "this /bin/cp is useful, i'll donate to it's creator!"
<popey> no financials for 2012
<mungbean> gnu was useful when i used solaris
<mungbean> the gnu tools were obviously better than solaris ones
<jacobw> mungbean: did you donate to GNU?
<mungbean> no
<mungbean> that kind of decision was above my pay grade
<redtape-renegade> What happened there   ??
<BigRedS> What's "light themes"? Specifically, I'd really like to work around bug 1058073 'cause my new work PC's going to have to run Ubuntu
<lubotu3> bug 1058073 in light-themes (Ubuntu) "The currently active tab looks very much like all the inactive ones" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058073
<popey> BigRedS: the default ubuntu themes ambiance and radiance
<BigRedS> I'm not near a Ubuntu right now, but is that something I'd work out how to change by clicking around ccsm or something?
<popey> not really
<BigRedS> oh
<BigRedS> gnome-tweak-tool? :)
<directhex> it's a bug in the theme files
<popey> they're gtk-3 themes
<directhex> where the colours assigned to different window decorations haven't been through out fully
<popey> dunno if there's a tool for fiddling them
<directhex> popey, yes: nano
<popey> heh
<BigRedS> should it be safe to copy stuff from /usr/share/themes on a Debian machine and just use a different theme?  I've a suspsicion that I'd need to tell something about this new theme, though...
<Azelphur> Every time I start steam now, http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/35484478.jpg
<popey> i like that the indicator is fixed now
<Azelphur> as someone who doesn't have indicator applet, I didn't realise it was broken :P
<MartijnVdS> The fonts got nicer too
<MartijnVdS> in steam
<davmor2> steam got removed for me which reminds me I need to go chase that up :)
<ahayzen> Hi, my webcam has stopped working in Google Hangouts, Skype, Cheese and gstreamer-properties but still works in guvcview, anyone know wht the cause of this could be? Thanks in advance.
<davmor2> bigcalm: thursday the 7th I will be in London picking on czajkowski so no coworking unless you and moreati want to get together
<bigcalm> davmor2: thanks for the info
<bigcalm> davmor2: my boss is getting an office and it looks like he expects me to work at it
<bigcalm> davmor2: not sure when that will start though
<davmor2> bigcalm: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<bigcalm> I know :)
<bigcalm> Erm
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> I'd rather continue to work from home
<MartijnVdS> evening!
<davmor2> man just think you'll have to start 1, getting up early 2, driving in a morning 3, getting dressed ;)
<redtape-renegade> Is the pocast on in10 minutes ??? 'cos the stream isn't doing anything ...
<czajkowski> davmor2: boo
<bigcalm> davmor2: not in that order
<redtape-renegade> popey, Good podcast .. Let me know if the young one wants to sell her Unicorn .. â»
<bigcalm> SPOILERS!
<bigcalm> I won't be listening until it's available for download
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm: so you don't want to know about the bloke from RedHat stripping live on air for Oracle smartphone?///
<redtape-renegade> SuperEngineer : Yes that was hilarious  !!
<angryziber> #sourceforge
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-28
<Azelphur> what's that open source alternative to dropbox?
<dutchie> spideroak?
<dutchie> sparkleshare?
<Azelphur> one of those two :P
<dutchie> :P
<shauno> I setup spideroak because it had the popey seal of aproval.  and then never touched it again
<Azelphur> haha
<shauno> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2539600212.png  and this is why we use the internet at 1am :)
<popey> i dropped spideroak because it was way too cumbersome
<rml_home> ning
<diplo> Morning all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<einonm> Morning
<brobostigon> morning einonm
<davmor2> Morning all
<czajkowski> davmor2: GOOOOOOOOO MORNING
<czajkowski> anoyone else noticed he's stopped picking on me now that he has to deal with me 24/7 at work :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: I think you have watched too much cadbury cream egg adverts
<davmor2> czajkowski: wait till thursday I'm saving up all the abuse till then :P
<czajkowski> oh joy!
<czajkowski> Laney: popey we're in the office next thursday if yer about
<popey> ooh
<SuperMatt> I've been to the southwark office... it's eerily quiet in there
<Laney> fraid not
<Laney> especially now that i have to pay full price(!) for trains
<czajkowski> Laney: welcome to adult world
<directhex> bah
<directhex> bloody kids
<directhex> get off my lawn
<davmor2> directhex: you shake you walking stick at him when you do that
<davmor2> czajkowski: hiding behind people won't protect you from the on coming storm ;)
<Laney> czajkowski: I DON'T LIKE IT LET ME GO BACK
<Laney> The place where I used to make dens and go exploring as a kid is now a new build estate >:(
<davmor2> czajkowski: you boo'd me I believe
<popey> i just made a pirate map for sam
<popey> i am going to hide his coins in the garden
<czajkowski> can we clone sam
<popey> heh
<popey> he's started swimming
<popey> its so cute, and gets me out of the house for an hour
<dwatkins> those coins are an awesome idea, popey
<popey> yeah, they are fun
<czajkowski> whoo 15 tickets left
<czajkowski> and just sent a reminder out, now lets hope 55 people don't just cancel
<Azelphur> just set solicitors on my landlord. xD
<czajkowski> why ?
<Azelphur> a list of disrepair as long as my arm
<davmor2> popey: you may hate covers but come on a Â£10 is way cheaper than Â£122
<davmor2> get over your case fears already ;)
<ali1234> directhex: amusingly enough light-themes not only are poorly thought out, they also don't follow the theme spec and rely on bugs in metacity to even work - bugs which have been fixed in mutter.
<ali1234> actually that might be the same thing BigRedS reported
<ali1234> actually tbh i still think radiance is the best theme
<ali1234> when it works properly
<popey> davmor2: it's not a fear of cases, I just don't like holding phones which have covers. the bumpers are less crap than a full cover imo
<popey> but I quite like the feel of an iphone 4s for example, the glass and metal feels nice in the hands
<popey> the n4 is unweildly large for my hands. i may look at a bumper for it
<directhex> ali1234, yeah, no comment on the quality of those
<ali1234> BigRedS: how do i make guake work?
<dwatkins> hooray, resetting my BIOS has stopped my Ubuntu machine from crashing when encoding video :D
<dwatkins> Now I can continue to put my blu-rays onto my NAS
<BigRedS> ali1234: what do you want it to do? Install it, run it
<BigRedS> I think by default it drops down with F11
 * dwatkins notes that guake.org isn't very forthcoming about this
<BigRedS> Ah, that's where it was handy that for bloody ages unity opened up guake-config when asked for guake
<dwatkins> haha wow, neither is its manpage
<ali1234> BigRedS: installed it, ran it, nothing happened
<ali1234> ran it from terminal and it crashed: gio.Error: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.Notifications.MaxNotificationsExceeded: Exceeded maximum number of notifications
<BigRedS> Ah, maybe F12 makes it drop-down. F11 is full-screen
<ali1234> nope, nothing
<BigRedS> I've been copying my ~ round for so long that I've not seen its default in ages now
<BigRedS> does guake-prefs do anything?
<BigRedS> that should give you the preferences window
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it says F12
<BigRedS> Oh
<dwatkins> I tend to just fullscreen my terminal with F11 or just ctrl+alt+F1 if I'm feeling nostalgic ;)
<BigRedS> strange. That bit always worked...
<ali1234> well, i don't know. but try hacking the theme
<directhex> tilde!
<BigRedS> Well, I'm on Debian now where the theme works :)
<popey> guake works here on raring
<BigRedS> I figure I should be able to just copy the debian default across and that'll Just Work? I really don'tfancy my chances at guessing a workable theme...
<ali1234> but what about the theme popey? :)
<BigRedS> I've tried messing with what my UI looks like before and I've never managed a net improvement
<ali1234> the gtk3 bug actually affects quite a lot of themes
<ali1234> or rather, the failure of theme developers to make themes that follow the spec
<BigRedS> this is adwaita which seems workable
<ali1234> most of the real bugs are in metacity
<ali1234> yeah that is the gnome default theme... so it works properly
<ali1234> it's about the only one
<BigRedS> ahh
<BigRedS> Should it be present in a gnome-shell install on Ubuntu? I don't think it was but I'm not convinced I looked...
<ali1234> yes
<popey> yeah, the theme is busted
<BigRedS> I think I was looking for a reference to 'light-themes' in a config and didn't find any, so probably skipped one called 'radiance' or whatever
<ali1234> BigRedS: gnome-tweak-tool
<BigRedS> yeah
<ali1234> yeah ambiance and radiance
<ali1234> first is the dark one second is the light one
<BigRedS> but I think when the bug got reassigned to 'light-themes' I assumed that was the theme, so wanted to find something that had set a theme to 'light'
<ali1234> i don't know why they are called light themes only one of them is light coloured and neither is light on memory and cpu
<popey> "Ubuntu Light" was a thing
<popey> probably came from that
<ali1234> installed it in virtualbox
<ali1234> actually now i think about it it isn't related to the metacity theme stuff, because that's a separate theme
<dwatkins> as opposed to lubuntu and xubuntu...
<dwatkins> ...and jolicloud and others
<redtape-renegade> Hi AlanBell ; I have a private question .. So I will PM you & I'll be finished asking in 10 minutes .. Ok ??
 * BigRedS is intrigued now
<BigRedS> doing an apt-get update I get a 404 for http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/binary-i386/Packages
<BigRedS> why isn't it looking for Packages.gz or Packages.bz2?
<Azelphur> does royal mail special delivery have a cut off time? :P
<Azelphur> for next day delivery, I mean
<czajkowski> EOD
<czajkowski> ?
<Azelphur> end of day works
<BigRedS> Oh, not bomb disposal?
<Laney> 1pm
<Laney> or you can pay more for 9am
<Laney> or do you mean for sending?!?!?!
<czajkowski> Laney: is bendy and all that but not sure we could fit him in a post box
<czajkowski> but it is worth trying
 * Laney remembers http://youtu.be/Pk8w4vMgBZ4
<czajkowski> folks may be interested in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-February/036537.html
<ali1234> "Due to Daily Quality efforts, the development release is now usable every day" lol
<ali1234> if only that were actually true
<ali1234> this is another good one "Take a monthly snapshot of the development release, which we support only until the next snapshot"
<ali1234> considering that getting bugs fixed in ubuntu currently takes about 2 years
<ali1234> i can only assume that this basically means "don't support it at all"
<BigRedS> hahaha, I tried 13.04 for a bit
<ali1234> i think the main motivation behind this is they are running out of letters and obscure animals
<BigRedS> I've basically spent today dealing with broken ubuntus. I'm essentially in favour of anything that makes Ubuntu more Debian right now
<BigRedS> though I'm not sure how Ubuntu's development process would deal with "release it when it's ready"
<yarinse> Where konversation keeps the configurations? In which folder?
<ali1234> i do think it's a good idea not to support interim releases for 2 years
<ali1234> but monthly dev snapshots is not useful at all
<ali1234> there is simply zero chance of anything getting fixed in that time, so you may as well just stay on the latest development version at all times and pray it works
<BigRedS> No, just ship fixes when they happen
<ali1234> i would prefer a 6 month interim release as now, but supported for only 6 months
<BigRedS> well, stuff's already not getting fixed in six-month snapshot releases
<ali1234> 6 months is about how long it takes before ubuntu needs a reinstall
<BigRedS> I've had installs last way longer than that, quite happily
<ali1234> on servers or machines you don't use much
<ali1234> like my mythtv server is quite happy on LTS releases
<BigRedS> nah, I think my home pc is four or five releases old
<ali1234> on development workstation i install so much stuff, most of which is not packaged, that it eventually just crumbles
<BigRedS> I hardly use it now, but I was using it a fair but intil a bit before christmas
<BigRedS> ah, yeah, but I don't use Ubuntu on that sort of machine
<BigRedS> It's too hard to work out what all the side-effects of doing something the 'wrong' way will be
<ali1234> i don't worry about it and just reinstall every 6 months
<ali1234> upgrade never works properly anyway
<ali1234> the few times i tried it i ended up reinstalling within 1 month
<BigRedS> You say that, I've still only managed to break inter-release upgrades in Debian
<BigRedS> and that was Etch/sarge days
<ali1234> so if this plan goes down i'll have a choice between a system that works for 6 months and then is broken for 18 months (LTS releases)
<ali1234> or fully reinstalling every month
<ali1234> or a system that never works properly ever again
<BigRedS> what breaks on a dist-upgrade? or a do-release-upgrade if we want to be all modern and ubuntuy?
<BigRedS> That's one thing that, ime, *always* works
<ali1234> configuration files mainly
<BigRedS> ah yeah, we do still need an elegant way of dealing with those
<ali1234> also last time i upgraded i ended up with a situation where apt wanted to both install and remove java
<BigRedS> that sounds very aptitude
<BigRedS> it's like apt's younger, drunker, stupid brother
<ali1234> i have never used aptitude, this was update-manager
<BigRedS> oh, I've never used that
<BigRedS> I guess that's apt-get in the background?
<ali1234> i only ever use official ubuntu methods when possible
<ali1234> sort of. it also has some own rules for resolving dependencies
<BigRedS> yeah, I try to but some habits die hard
<ali1234> i have never used debian. i tried once. i couldn't even manage to install it
<ali1234> installer just bombed out with package dependency errors
<BigRedS> when was that? I think I started using debian 'cause it was the first distro I could get the installer to work on
<ali1234> about 2006
<ali1234> i ended up installing gentoo instead, because the instructions actually worked
<BigRedS> sarge/etchish, yeah that was a bit after I started using it
<ali1234> debian is about the only major distro i've never been able to even install
<ali1234> even suse was easier to install... it went rapidly downhill from there though
<ali1234> another proble i hit with debian is the installer would pop up loads of debconf windows and ask me for obscure information
<ali1234> like "please type in your BIND configuration from scratch in this editor window now LOL"
<BigRedS> haha, yeah suse was great until you had to do something with yast and it broke everything
<ali1234> in the middle of the installer
<BigRedS> I think I just entered nothing for any question I didn't understand, and got a roughly workable system at the end of it
<ali1234> yeah that's what i tried... it didn't work
<ali1234> actually you know
<ali1234> i think this monthly snapshot idea is good
<BigRedS> hm, fair enough. I'm still a bit surprised Debian haven't stolen the ubuntu installer
<BigRedS> d-i's not *bad* IME, but it's really poor in graphical mode. You can see it's just a graphical version of the cursesy interface
<ali1234> i mean someone can always maintain a release if it is a particularly good one
<ali1234> as with linux
<ali1234> and they won't have to necessarily stick to six months
<ali1234> they can wait a month if it's not quite ready
<ali1234> trouble is i doubt anyone will bother
<BigRedS> ah yeah, especially for the people who make ubunut derivatives but don't want to have to wait for LTSs
<BigRedS> but it's a lot of effort to support the entirety of even whatever subset a derivative picks
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> if you're not modifying anything it is just a matter of backporting fixes
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, I forgot there'd be the next month's to grab the fixes out of...
<ali1234> the problem with derivates is they go off and patch everything and then have to keep rebasing their changes
<ali1234> which as we all know, is virtually impossible with bzr
<Azelphur> spent ages with everyone being irritated by continual waves of brazilian people coming to my server and mic spamming, figured out I had sv_region set to south america, derp.
<ali1234> lol
<BigRedS> I love problems like that
<BigRedS> especially when other peopel have them
<ali1234> slightly related, do non-english TF2 communities have their own micspam memes that we've never heard of? or is billy mays a global thing?
<BigRedS> but, that reminds me, I've been asked for a counterstrike server. How resource hungry are they? Also, got an idiot-proof howto?
<Azelphur> BigRedS: what type of counter strike
<Azelphur> ali1234: I dunno, I don't understand them to find out :P
<BigRedS> Azelphur: er
<BigRedS> there's different sorts?
 * BigRedS is a *massive* gamer
<Azelphur> yep
<BigRedS> the old one?
<Azelphur> the really really old one?
<Azelphur> that'd be CS 1.6
<BigRedS> probably. Not Source
<Azelphur> yea, not source
<Azelphur> dunno about resources on that, not much
<BigRedS> oh good! :)
<Azelphur> are you looking for hosting?
<BigRedS> Nah, I work at a hosting company
<Azelphur> ah ok then
<Azelphur> just allocate it a single core
<Azelphur> and it should be fine
<BigRedS> But we don't normally do games, and there doesn't seem to be an apt-get install counterstrike-server
<bigcalm> Grrr at "Missing executable" in Steam
<Azelphur> BigRedS: you know CS:Source is native now, right?
<BigRedS> Ah, it's all single-threaded? So a really quick single core makes more sense than many slow ones?
<BigRedS> Nope!
<Azelphur> for all intense and purposes it's single threaded
<BigRedS> Heh, if CS:S is easier I might just do that and feign misunderstanding :)
<Azelphur> it does have threads, they just arn't balanced at all
<Azelphur> yea, afaik 1.6 is windows only for now
<Azelphur> where as source is native
<BigRedS> Oh, right. I'll go with source. It sounds like less hassle
<Azelphur> the server is linux on either of em
<Azelphur> but the client is native linux on source
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> BigRedS: are you planning on loading a lot of plugins?
<Azelphur> if not, 256MB is ok I think :)
<Azelphur> havn't ran CS:S in a long time, I mostly do TF2
<Azelphur> (although my server plugins work on CS:S too :P)
<BigRedS> plugins? Whoah
<BigRedS> I've not really planned anything :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<BigRedS> what would I use plugins for? New  weapons/game modes?
<Azelphur> https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=1204192 greatest plugin ever </shameless plug>
<BigRedS> Oh, all sorts
<Azelphur> yep, all sorts
<BigRedS> yeah, not knowingly
<Azelphur> everything from new game modes to irc ;)
<BigRedS> And that's happy with a bunch of slow cores?
<BigRedS> 'cause that's a good description of my HV :)
<Azelphur> nope
<Azelphur> pretty much everything valve is rape a single core
<BigRedS> bag
<BigRedS> bah, even
<Azelphur> I have a big dedi in NYC I run my empire on
<MartijnVdS> you're an emperor?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> XD
<BigRedS> When we sold dedicated machines in NY the product was called 'empire' IIRC
<MartijnVdS> well it's the empire state..
 * mgdm is currently playing with his new dedicated box in France
<mgdm> (it's cheap)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: gandi.net?
 * MartijnVdS has a vps in the uk
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: OVH
<mgdm> It's running SmartOS, which is fun, 'cos I've never done Solaris before
<BigRedS> ooh, is that what became of opensolaris?
<popey> slowlaris *snerk*
<BigRedS> Oh, no, I've come across this before!
<MartijnVdS> popey: slowloris? :)
<BigRedS> I meant to have a play with it but still haven't got around to it
<dwatkins> is Solaris really slow, or is it just that it runs on what are now fairly old machines (with non-Intel CPUs)?
<popey> there is x86 solaris
<BigRedS> solaris is run on x86 plenty
<popey> Sun shipped X86-64 AMD boxes for some time
<popey> they were quite pokey
<popey> and spendy
<dwatkins> I regret throwing out an old SPARC-based pizza box.
<dwatkins> Might see if I can get another just for playing with.
<dwatkins> I may even have to see about interfacing a compact-flash card to it so I don't have to worry about the age of a SCSI disk.
<redtape-renegade> Best quote of the day:: Do you Want To Go Out And Meditate With Grandma ?? http://youtu.be/DHwKXy4zElA?t=1m49s
<mgdm> BigRedS: sort of. There's lots of forks of OpenSolaris. SmartOS is the kernel + a bit of the userland, but it's designed for running KVM virtual machines on ZFS storage
<mgdm> BigRedS: there's also OmniOS and a few others
<Darael> Hmmm.  Compiz supports multiple desktops as well as multiple workspaces, but only appears to provide mechanisms for changing between the latter.
<dwatkins> changing in which sense, Darael?
<dwatkins> If I run a secondary X server, I can switch to it with ctrl+alt+F8
<MartijnVdS> should be yes
<MartijnVdS> if you start it as X :1
<MartijnVdS> I think that's how user switching works as well
<dwatkins> I enabled the cube, it's all kinds of pointless, but it's fun.
<Darael> Nah.  Not the same thing.  The Metacity concept referred to as "desktops" is actually distinct from the Compiz Workspaces.
<dwatkins> having two monitors with a desktop cube is fun.
<dwatkins> What is it, Darael?
<popey> i thought desktops == workspaces
<MartijnVdS> no
<popey> just a synonym
<Darael> They function the same way, but they're seperate.
<Darael> I can demonstrate this with the machine I'm on.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: they function similarly, but they're different
<MartijnVdS> In ole tymes you used to be able to move apps between workspaces, but not between desktops
<Darael> However, Compiz actually appears to support both, but only *switching* support for workspaces.
<Darael> All this within a single X server, of course.
<MartijnVdS> ah:
<dwatkins> ooooh, xinerama days
<MartijnVdS> it's all inherited from fvwm days :)
<MartijnVdS> that allows you to have several "desks" which can have a set of "workspaces" each
<MartijnVdS> so you have a "Work" desk and a "Home" desk, and the "Work" desk has a workspace for your editor + compiler, work mail, etc.
<MartijnVdS> and the "Home" one has one for home mail, and other "home" things
<dwatkins> ah yes, the nightmarish grid
<Darael> Disclaimer:  Right now I'm on a uni machine which is running some modified version of Precise with what appears to be GNOME Classic (eg gnome-panel 1:3.4.1-0ubuntu1.1 [...]).  The workspace switcher applet displays workspaces by default, but if any change is made to the number of *desktops* it shows only them.  Workspace switching works by the usual keyboard shortcuts, and I can get to a different *desktop* by clicking ...
<Darael> ... the switcher (though I have to jump some hoops to get back, since the panel runs only on desktop 1).
<Darael> What interests me is that Compiz allows multiple desktops but (as I mentioned) appears to have no way to configure ways of switching between them.
<MartijnVdS> (unrelated.. tonight's music recommendation: http://open.spotify.com/album/0mEgjSX0fTulFtZFNs46Bg )
<MartijnVdS> Darael: can't you bind keys to the events?
<Darael> Hmm?
<MartijnVdS> Darael: I assume you can set keys to "Switch desktop" or something in a generic key binding editor?
 * mgdm wants an addon for Chrome that will split the screen the same way Terminator can
<mgdm> sadly, the only one I could find doesn't work at all on multiple monitors
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: you mean like blender does?
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: Blender as in the 3D thing, or something else?
<MartijnVdS> 3d
<mgdm> I've not used it since around 1999 :)
<MartijnVdS> it has its own internal "window management"
<dwatkins> FVWM: Will it blend?
<MartijnVdS> that allows you to split windows horizontally or vertically
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: let's find out!
<mgdm> well, in Terminator, you right-click and you can get 'split horizonally' or 'split vertically' options
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: so yes, similar :)
<mgdm> iTerm2 on OSX does the same thing
<dwatkins> I think tmux does vertical and horizontal splitting.
<mgdm> yes
<dwatkins> screen doesn't, which is a shame.
<mgdm> Are you sure?
<mgdm> I could have sworn I did it in screen once, though it was TREMENDOUS FAFF
<Darael> Actually, the version of screen in Ubuntu includes the patch for splitting... whichever way the default doesn't.
<dwatkins> ah, that may be it
<mgdm> http://news.softpedia.com/news/GNU-Screen-Tutorial-44274.shtml
<Darael> IIRC.
<Darael> I use tmux, so I'm not particularly bothered.
<mgdm> iTerm2 is cunning in that it can display tmux split windows using native widgets
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<mgdm> (which I've not tried, but it looks cool)
<MartijnVdS> gnome-terminal should implement that :)
<mgdm> requires a patch for tmux, though
<mgdm> I've not used gnome-terminal since terminator existed
<MartijnVdS> I've tried terminator, but I can't get used to it
<mgdm> at work I have a 27" iMac that spends much of its time witha  full-screen iterm2 running 3 vertically-split terminals :-)
<MartijnVdS> we need ANSI sequences for 3D
<MartijnVdS> so you can actually use the GPU from your terminal
<MartijnVdS> ANSI-GL
<dwatkins> mgdm: I tend to run iterm2 fullscreen on my Mac a lot
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: heh heh
<dwatkins> I'd use Cathode as a terminal, but it uses the GPU too much
<mgdm> hehe, oh yeah
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: and you could implement the "Jurassic Park" interface in shell
<mgdm> most of my work is a terminal and a web browser, both full screen, just alt-tab between
<mgdm> Oh, and often Sequel Pro too
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: hah
 * mgdm is reminded of mplayer -vo aa
 * dwatkins grins
<dwatkins> I wonder if the Mac version has that
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: not -vo caca? that's similar but with colours
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: yeah, but aa has been there loger
<MartijnVdS> but we have colour screens now!
<mgdm> aa had a better frame rate on my 600MHz Celeron back in the day
<mgdm> (also I'm going to go back to referring to Hertz as 'cycles'. It's much cooler.)
<mgdm> 'My laptop runs at 600 megacycles' etc
<directhex> mgdm, dont use "mega", actually use the number
<directhex> i.e. million and so on
<mgdm> I might have to do that for giga, etc, but there is something cool about 'mega' and 'kilo'
<directhex> hyper!
<mgdm> now you're channeling Scooter
<mgdm> which is a form of retro could do without
<MartijnVdS> HYPER HYPER
<dwatkins> I replaced my IBM Model M keyboard's function keys with red ones, like on the Archimedes
<mgdm> nice :)
<mgdm> that'd look really silly on my Mac keyboard, though :(
<mgdm> we have older-style Mac keyboards at work (the ones with full-size keys) that are coloured to work with Avid video editing stuff
<mgdm> they look quite cool
<dwatkins> I have a USB adapter cable for it, mgdm - it works with my Mac :)
<mgdm> I mean the other way around - my Mac keyboard would look odd with big clicky function keys on :-)
<mgdm> also I'm not a fan of the Model M
<dwatkins> Blasphemy! ;)
<mgdm> heh, so I hear
<ali1234> it's too loud
<ali1234> if someone made one that was as quiet as a membrane it would be great
<redtape-renegade> What is the quickest way to-do a word count on a pdf ??
<redtape-renegade> OR alternatively :: Can you tell me how many words (in English) are in the Ubuntu Manual ???
<redtape-renegade> http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<mgdm> pdftotext thing.pdf | wc
<mgdm> ?
<ali1234> not always
<redtape-renegade> Can't someone just tell me . Please ?
<ali1234> probably would work with that one though
<ali1234> when you say "how many words in english" what do you mean exactly?
<redtape-renegade> I mean how many words are there ?? It happens to be in English.
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: and he told you how to figure it out yourself :)
<redtape-renegade> I'm trying, I'm trying...
<ali1234> doesn't work
<redtape-renegade> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5574517/ Any help here .. I dont know WTH I'm doing ???
<ali1234> you need to escape the spaces in file name
<redtape-renegade> ok hangon..
<redtape-renegade> nope I didn't get it ... http://paste.ubuntu.com/5574539/
<dwatkins> did you rename the file, redtape-renegade?
<redtape-renegade> no
<dwatkins> you're trying to get pdftotext to open a file that doesn't exist, rename it to include the underscores then try the first one again.
<redtape-renegade> do you want me to ?
<redtape-renegade> oh ok..
<dwatkins> if you want the command not to fail with "couldn't open file" ;)
<redtape-renegade> nope still doesn't work .. and I did it perfect..
<redtape-renegade> can someone just download this and tell me please ?
<redtape-renegade> it's only 9MB
<shauno> let the shell do the thinking for you.  pdftotext Getting and then hit tab.  it'll escape it for you
<redtape-renegade> ok trying that ...
<redtape-renegade> it doesn't do anything .. it just does nothing when I do that ..
<ali1234> it doesn't work already
<ali1234> i already downloaded it and ran the command
<ali1234> it outputs 0
<redtape-renegade> Well how do I find out how many words are in the doc . ?
<redtape-renegade> Can I do this on winblows ?
<dwatkins> redtape-renegade: load it in to Acrobat, perhaps there's a word count tool
<redtape-renegade> ok..
<dwatkins> ah, sorry - you'd need to convert it for that, it seems
<dwatkins> or open it, copy all the text into a text editor, save and use 'wc' on that if you can't convert at the command line
<dwatkins> what PDF are you word-cunting, redtape-renegade - I'll see if I can do it here
<dwatkins> *counting sorry
<dwatkins> redtape-renegade: often, tab-complete fails if there's more than one possible file, so you have to give it the next character
<redtape-renegade> http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<redtape-renegade> i think i need to export it to notepad or something ??
<redtape-renegade> Ahh . it does it in Acrobat .. you can export to a txt file :)
<dwatkins> redtape-renegade: http://hastebin.com/diwagavexi.scala
<redtape-renegade> Fast too .. like OCR on steroids
<redtape-renegade> opening...
<dwatkins> That's what escapaing is.
<dwatkins> Using\ backslashes\ for\ all\ the\ spaces.
<dwatkins> Interpretting the output of wc is left as an excercise for the reader.
<redtape-renegade> oh Ok .. thankyou so much .. I'm going to study your hastebin tonite .. cheers.
<dwatkins> cool
<Myrtti> I wonder would Nexus 4 fit into the new Nokia car charger
<dwatkins> ooh, it has wireless charging, Myrtti - nice
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins: So it's 6860 words, I'm not sure ?
<dwatkins> redtape-renegade: what does the wc manpage say? ;)
<dwatkins> (about the output)
<jessicapollock> I have no idea if I am in the right place so I apologize in advance. I'm looking for someone who can help me (a complete ubuntu novice) figure out how to make ubuntu connect to the internet.
<dwatkins> hi jessicapollock
<jessicapollock> Hello dwatkins
<dwatkins> welcome to Ubuntu UK, perhaps we can get you online
<dwatkins> what's the problem/symptoms?
<jessicapollock> That would be much appreciated thank you.
<redtape-renegade> I'll come back to you dwatkins .. thanks so far .. good luck jessica & Welcome \o/
<dwatkins> np redtape-renegade
<jessicapollock> Well, I have windows Vista, which I am using to connect now and chat with you. I installed ubuntu 12.04 to replace my awful OS and when I boot Ubuntu it does not recognize any internet connections wired or otherwise.
<dwatkins> jessicapollock: ah I see; what kind of network card or wifi card are you using in Windows to connect?
<jessicapollock> Honestly, I am not sure. I am using a rebuilt computer that I purchased  a few years ago.
<jessicapollock> I don't even know how to find out.
<jessicapollock> Originally all the parts were dell inspiron 1521
<dwatkins> if you press the windows key and the 'break' key together, that should open the device list, I believe - you should be able to see from there
<dwatkins> ah, device manager is linked from there, anyway
<jessicapollock> I have device manager open. what am I looking for?
<dwatkins> should have a section called 'network adapters'
<dwatkins> I assume you have a physical cable going from the PC to the router, also.
<jessicapollock> Not at the moment. It's a wireless connection while on vista but I can change that if need be.
<popey> also, a command prompt window and the "ipconfig" command will tell you
<dwatkins> ok, should still be something in the list that isn't crossed out
<dwatkins> ah yes, thanks popey
<jessicapollock> is dell wireless 1390 wlan mini-card what i'm looking for?
<dwatkins> jessicapollock: sounds like the kind of information we need, yeah, I'll have a look...
<dwatkins> jessicapollock: looks like you'll need to install some packages by using a wired connection in order to get your wireless card to work
<dwatkins> (under Ubuntu)
<jessicapollock> ubuntu won't recognize my wired connection either though...
<dwatkins> is there a wired/ethernet card in the list as well, jessicapollock?
<dwatkins> in device manager, that is
<jessicapollock> there is a broadcom440x10/100 intergrated controller...
<dwatkins> for reference, this should be what you need to do to get the wireless card to work: http://askubuntu.com/questions/87519/how-to-make-my-dell-1390-wlan-minicard-work
<jessicapollock> thankyou
<dwatkins> does the wired card work under Vista when you plug the cable in, jessicapollock?
<jessicapollock> I haven't checked recently but it is how I set up the wireless network originally. I can go plug in if need be.
<dwatkins> I'm not entirely certain, but the few pages I've found which refer to that Broadcom card and Ubuntu seem to suggest it should have drivers, so it may be a configuration issue on the PC or the router. The default config in Ubuntu should get a DHCP address, so either 12.04 hasn't installed a working driver, or the router isn't giving you an IP address for some reason, I suspect, when the cable's in and you boot Ubuntu.
<directhex> ali1234, ping
<dwatkins> jessicapollock: it may simply be a case of manually loading a module, however
<jessicapollock> So would re-installing ubuntu help do you think? Originally I used the windows installer to do it. Should I write a disk instead?
<ali1234> yes?
<dwatkins> jessicapollock: this might be the easiest way to get the wired card working: http://askubuntu.com/questions/14970/broadcom-bcm4401-b0-100base-tx-issues
<directhex> ali1234, was it you that did a bunch of secure boot tinkering in a VM?
<ali1234> yeah
<dwatkins> i.e. uncomment the line in the blacklist file by removing the hash symbol, jessicapollock
<ali1234> on my webpage: al.robotfuzz.com
<directhex> ali1234, what's the url?
<jessicapollock> thank you. I'll give it a try.
<dwatkins> good luck :)
<bigcalm> directhex: in Steam, have you experienced missing executables on freshly installed games? I'm getting that on Shatter
<directhex> bigcalm, happens when a game isn't properly uploaded yet
<directhex> bigcalm, i.e. clickign "install" doesn't yet download the correct depots, due to misconfiguration by the game publisher
<bigcalm> directhex: ah, thanks. I'll delete local content and try installing it again
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins : 12936words                                                                                                  .. aaaaaaaand thank-you.
<bigcalm> I've also found that some games start full screen, but see my screen size as that of 3 screens put together. But as it only full screens on the left hand monitor, I don't get to see any controls. A touch annoying
<dwatkins> redtape-renegade: that wasn't even in my wc output ;)
<redtape-renegade> Wow .. A task that took 30 seconds in Win98 took me 1 hour and twenty minutes .. well there you go..
<bigcalm> directhex: know if there's a way to force a game not to start full screen? Latest example is Kentucky Route Zero
<directhex> bigcalm, NO, THAT'S A PER-GAME QUESTION
<directhex> bah, cat loves capslock
<dwatkins> redtape-renegade: that's often the case when there aren't commandline tools available
<bigcalm> directhex: I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE!
<dwatkins> redtape-renegade: I tend to install putty ;)
<bigcalm> :)
<ali1234> bigcalm: that's avery common problem which there are various workarounds for
<redtape-renegade> I had to use Abiwords .. Crumbs .. it's like I'm back in USSR or something tonite !
<ali1234> bigcalm: i documented a few on here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/145528/how-to-run-humble-bundle-v-games-on-a-system-with-nvidia-twinview
<dwatkins> redtape-renegade: I make it 52659 words, did you not look up how wc displays its output?
<bigcalm> What's worse is that my central screen is rotated 90 deg. So the screen size is even larger than physically possible
<bigcalm> ali1234: I'll take a look, ta
<ali1234> that covers SDL and wine games at least
<ali1234> if it's some proprietary engine you are probably screwed unless you use some kind of LD_PRELOAD tricker
<ali1234> y
<bigcalm> I could try exporting SDL_VIDEO_FULLSCREEN_DISPLAY=0 from ~.bashrc
<ali1234> i put it in /etc/environment
<bigcalm> ~/.bashrc that is
<ali1234> it should really be the default since you almost never want games spanning monitors unless they are specifically written with that in mind
<ali1234> which virtually no games are
<bigcalm> Even less so for me with my central monitor rotation
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> any games that can handle your setup would have a very elaborate custom configuration specifically for the job anyway
<ali1234> that goes pretty much even for basic dual head
<ali1234> the one problem with SDL though is it will grab the mouse pointer even if the game doesn't use mouse. there's a patc for SDL to fix that but upstream refuses to apply it since the only type of game they understand is FPS
<redtape-renegade> Anmyway to translate the current Ubuntu Manual in chinese would take Â£184.17 according to this guy :: http://goo.gl/2eJpU ( with over 200+ positive references.
<redtape-renegade> That was the point of all that(which took 2 hours !!) .. anybody fancy going halves ??
<dwatkins> there might be some people on the -cn channel who would do it for karma.
<ali1234> 184.17 what?
<redtape-renegade> GBP.
<redtape-renegade> My idea of community is if you can't pay someone who can...
<redtape-renegade> My idea of community is if you can't -  pay someone who can...
<ali1234> ah... you;re going to pay a general translator to translate a highly technical document?
<ali1234> i have a feeling that might not turn out very good
<ali1234> you probably need people who both fluent chinese and also know how to use ubuntu in the first place, otherwise you're highly likely to get nonsense even with a very good translator
<dwatkins> hence my suggestion of the Chinese Ubuntu channel
<dwatkins> !cn
<lubotu3> å¦æ¬²ç²å¾ä¸­æçåå©ï¼è«è¼¸å¥ /join #ubuntu-cn æ /join #ubuntu-tw
<dwatkins> Karma isn't a real and tangible thing, but it may be that some people on there will want to help and having their name in the credits will be payment enough. Worth a try for a few lines of text.
<ali1234> sure it is
<ali1234> it's right there on launchpad
<shauno> translation is rarely that simple.  you end up bouncing between a translator, and a proofreader who understands the subject matter
<shauno> (it's rarely as simple as just being fluent in both languages)
<ali1234> of course a first draft might be a good way to kick start further development
<ali1234> assuming it's not totally awful
<shauno> it's an interesting idea, just worth knowing what you're getting into.  and that if you don't find community buy-in, your translation becomes more outdated with each revision, etc
<ali1234> does anyone know about terminal resizing?
<ali1234> ie how does nano know i resized the xterm window
<ali1234> and what would cause this to not work?
<shauno> usually if something else is catching SIGWINCH; eg, screen would catch it, and then resend it to its contents
<mgdm> is it not sent a signal like SIGWINCH ?
<redtape-renegade> shauno: Yeah .. it's a good idea . /that being/ that the translation gets updated, but you need a base first .. otherwise 1345Million people have nothing to go on .. and will not learn the way of the force *cough* Ubuntu.
<ali1234> ah, so adb is probably catching a bunch of sgnals and not passing them through...
<shauno> I'm not sure it even has to explicitely catch it.  any abstraction layer just means the terminal is sending the signal to the wrong process
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> the other problem i have is the enter key doesn't work in nano
<ali1234> it works for text editing, but when you enter file name and press enter... nothing happens
<ali1234> i'm guessing this is a similar issue
<ali1234> i wonder how i could debug this
<dwatkins> ali1234: I assume this happens after a reset in the terminal and with a new user account
<dwatkins> i.e. no config
<ali1234> adb passes through ctrl-c fine though, so i can escape
<ali1234> dwatkins: it happens on ubuntu phone
<shauno> would adb cause $TERM to not be available to nano?
<ali1234> no, $TERM is fine
<ali1234> it doesn't seem related to the chroot either because i see other reports on vanilla android
<ali1234> so it must be either adb or busybox related
<dwatkins> does freenx exist in quantal in a ppa or something?
<dwatkins> I tried the one suggested on eht relevant official page but there's no package for 12.10
<dwatkins> aha sudo add-apt-repository ppa:freenx-team/testing
<ali1234> googling for SIGWINCH allowed me to find this: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=35897
<ali1234> so it is adb problem
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-01
<ali1234> adb opens the terminal raw, so it doesn't receive signals
<ali1234> i guess the problem is on phone side where it uses the raw input then
<diplo> Morning all
<jacobw> Good morning all and diplo
<popey> yo
<AlanBell> morning
<jacobw> AlanBell: I'm looking for vTiger resources
<AlanBell> yay
 * jacobw looks on theopensourcerer.com
<bigcalm_> Good morning peeps :)
 * bigcalm_ looks at his nick. How'd that happen?
<redtape-renegade> Morning , except for sloanies.
 * bigcalm grabs keepnick.pl and hopes that will be the end of that
<redtape-renegade> nice day today at least.
<JamesTait> Happy Friday and Happy St David's Day! :-D
<NET||abuse> hi guys, i'm on 12.10 and i'm trying to hook my windows pc audio out to my laptop so i can hear stuff from the windows box too
<NET||abuse> so i just have the front of box audio jack going into my docking station mic in.
<NET||abuse> i'm hoping to pick up the audio
<dwatkins> I tried to do that recently in alsamixer and it worked one week then didn't work the next.
<NET||abuse> but pulse isn't showing any optin i can see.
<NET||abuse> what alsa mixer tool did you use?
<NET||abuse> the command line one is the only one on my box it seems
<dwatkins> yeah, that's the one, 'alsamixer' on the terminal, NET||abuse
<NET||abuse> don't see hwo to turn anything on
<NET||abuse> i've moved all the volume sliders. no luck
<redtape-renegade> JamesTait: Yep .. And my Dad is called David . What should I say to him ??
<JamesTait> redtape-renegade, "Hi dad"?
<JamesTait> redtape-renegade, there may well be some "formal" greeting that Welsh people say on St David's Day, but I have no idea what it might be.
<dwatkins> borre da
<NET||abuse> hmm, i can see level bouncing around on pavolumecontrol for analogue stero in input devices.
<NET||abuse> how do i loop that back now.
<JamesTait> "Dydd Gwyl Dewi hapus!"
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<brobostigon> JamesTait: o/
<NET||abuse> very frustrating,
<NET||abuse> i can see the input level for the line in and mic working
<NET||abuse> i just acn't see how to put it through the output/playback channels.
<NET||abuse> damn pulse
<redtape-renegade> & In Other News ...
<redtape-renegade> Ricky gervais is doing a one-off Office special for Comic Relief on the 15th March on BBC1 , this time he is a "music manager"  .. Happy *St David*Brent Day \o/   .
<redtape-renegade> page two of Indie 'I' N.paper..
<Laney> oh god
<Laney> this plant somebody gave me for my birthday about 5 weeks ago is already pretty much done for
<Laney> and I just pulled out one of the few surviving leaves while trying to take a dead one off
<popey> i found a cactus behind some folders last week
<popey> its proper dead
<diplo> :P
<Laney> oh there's two of those in the kitchen that my landlord had for 15 years before i moved in here
<Laney> they don't look so good either
<popey> i thought I might be able to revive it
<popey> but that seems optimistic
<popey> oh, and wifey has binned it
<popey> Sorted!
<Laney> yeah probably not coming back from that
<redtape-renegade> 67popey . Give the Cactus a hugg from me ;)
<redtape-renegade> whops seem to be at 6's and 7's today .. :(
<Laney> maybe they'll be ok - perhaps they naturally go a bit yellow in the winter? right guys?
<Laney> guys? right?
<diplo> heh, you sound as bad as my ex wife with plants
<diplo> :)
<redtape-renegade> Laney, possibly correct.
<Laney> ;-)
<Laney> on a better note, https://twitter.com/TheJohnsonArms/status/302094965058703360/photo/1 â this is me tonight
<dwatkins> board? ;)
<popey> you got a new job working in a bar?
<Laney> investing heavily in the pub's future
<dwatkins> do they have a club card?
<popey> http://popey.com/webcam/ \o/ pussycat
<davmor2> Morning all
<redtape-renegade> Laney : Invest. in a Pub ? Why didn't you buy an old post-office with an office on top ?
 * redtape-renegade still believe's he can rule the world by doing an "I loveFilm" but for software DVD's for ppl to subscribe to .. !!
<popey> hello davmor2
<redtape-renegade> I remember when you could send a postcard for 10p with a Â£1 stuck in between the photo and writing paper sheets .. back when I was in "Colditz"...
<NET||abuse> popey: check that cats' pulse, he's not moving.
<redtape-renegade> .. smoke me a kipper, I'll be back after work..
<redtape-renegade> bye for now.
<NET||abuse> oh my god, i refreshed and he vanished.
<NET||abuse> :P funny how my brain was trained to look for a movement given the url says "webcam"
<davmor2> popey: that's sounds ominous, like you were lying in wait for me or something :)
<popey> hehe NET||abuse
<popey> i do have a live stream but it can only cope with 1 or 2 users at once
<popey> I want to proxy it on my server
<NET||abuse> :) use uStream and embed
<popey> but haven't quite managed to get that working
<popey> another day
<NET||abuse> :)
<davmor2> popey: so the rolling release is quite a popular topic I don't remmeber seeing so much mail on u-devel mailing list :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: not that I've ever seen the list, but wouldn't the location change for window buttons have caused just as much hoo-har
<davmor2> bigcalm: not like this, that was more the standard ubuntu channels this is the developer channel
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<bigcalm> davmor2: despite moving to work in an office, looks like I might still be able to do the workplace days.
<davmor2> woohoo!
<popey> http://havethebuttonsmovedbackyet.com/
<bigcalm> popey: one of yours?
<popey> âº
<bigcalm> Haha
<Laney> I click the wrong side whenever I use shell now
<popey> i click the wrong side in GameOS
<Laney> no chance to do that in Metro :-)
<Laney> metro -> steam -> game -> alt-f4 -> shutdown
<Laney> no buttons involved
<popey> gosh
<popey> someone made a session launcher for steam in ubuntu irrc
<popey> *iirc
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> still haven't given steam on ubuntu a real go
<Laney> ssd too small
<Laney> and it had an annoying bug where the mouse didn't actually click where the pointer was in the early releases
<dwatkins> that reminds me, I should probably order an SSD soon
<Laney> which was really REALLY frustrating
<Laney> I would have flipped the desk were I not a weakling
<dwatkins> was it a problem in Steam or specific Steam games, Laney?
<Laney> happened in both steam and TF2
<dwatkins> bah
<Laney> i'm sure it's fixed now - that was way back at the star
<Laney> t
<dwatkins> most likely, yeah
<bastubis> anyone else noticed firefox crashing in 13.04 alpha?
<einonm> ooh, Dell's just released the Ubuntu XPS13 developer edition http://bartongeorge.net/2013/03/01/xps-13-developer-edition-available-online-in-europe/
<einonm> Now to check if there's any LinuxFoundation discount as well...
<popey> \o/
<popey> http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd.aspx?s=bsd
<AlanBell> wow
<einonm> No LinuxFoundation discount though, which is a little disappointing...
<Myrtti> einonm: it was announced few weeks ago tho
<davmor2> popey: I love that the end of that link is bsd like that will make the linux community happy :)
<popey> hah
<einonm> Myrtti: yes, but only available today to actually buy
<Myrtti> yes.
<Myrtti> I suppose it would run Debian just as well
<davmor2> Myrtti: depends on the wifi
<Myrtti> IntelÂ® CentrinoÂ® Advanced-N 6235 (2x2 b/g/n+ Bluetooth Combo Card)
<einonm> Topcashback doing 8% discount on XPS is the best discount I've found so far.
<AlanBell> lease deal doesn't seem very good
<AlanBell> slightly tempted to get a couple still
<Myrtti> so including tax that would be how much?
<Myrtti> +17% ?
<AlanBell> VAT is 20%
 * Myrtti does some mental arithmetics
<Myrtti> 1080 then?
<AlanBell> http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/xps-13-l321x-mlk/pd?oc=sbnb1326&model_id=xps-13-l321x-mlk& Â£1019 for the same spec with windows
<AlanBell> plus VAT
<Myrtti> that's considerably cheaper then
<AlanBell> the Ubuntu one is Â£120 cheaper, yes
<Myrtti> there was also a banner for 150 cashback for an old computer
<Myrtti> I lost it tho
<mungbean> how do i make a column header in Libreoffice to be a drop down chooser containing elements of the list?
<popey> isnt that called a pivot table?
<dwatkins> data filter, perhaps
<mungbean> dwatkins: +1 thanks
<mungbean> seems to be a bug in my sheet not working. c+p to a new sheet and made a new filter, now ok
<mungbean> LO allows you to sum the columns, excel doesnt (fail)
<bigcalm> Anybody here use gitolite?
<SuperMatt> nope
<bigcalm> So I see
<redtape-renegade> Has anyone realized that Bitcoin has almost gone up by 300% in the last month ?? http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxGBP#igWeeklyztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
<redtape-renegade> Here's the spot price -----------------------> http://preev.com/btc/gbp
<amayer> is there a way i can replace empathy with xchat in the mail/chat notification dropdown in the system tray?
<amayer> so when i click chat it opens xchat
<amayer> and when i have a new message in xchat it makes the envelope blue
 * redtape-renegade Finds the source of RMS's Gnu soft toy that he auctions off @ most talks he gives ... http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/112592673/Promotional_giveaway_stuffed_plush_soft_logo.html
<shauno> fancy 500 of them?
<bastubis> is anyone else having problems with firefox on 13.04?
<AlanBell> bastubis: works for me now, but I have not updated today
<bastubis> hmmm, it started playig up yesterday - crashes, if you killall it still claims to be running
<bastubis> often it crashes before it's even loaded
<bastubis> now opera is mistaking my OS for Mac and won't give me the bloody deb
<bastubis> I can only launch firefox from cli
<AlanBell> I tend to use chromium-browser all the time now
<AlanBell> could it be something bad in your firefox profile?
<bastubis> starting to look that way - but doesn't explain why Opera thinks I'm on a Mac?
<AlanBell> 13.04 was very messy for me yesterday morning actually, no wifi, no touchpad, US keyboard
<bastubis> gawd lol - I just installed a slew of upgrades
<AlanBell> did an update and it all went nice again
<bastubis> never mind, 12.04 was so flakey I'm sorta used to it ;)
<AlanBell> (and yes, I did discover this when opening the laptop to do a client presentation)
<bastubis> I know - I'm using it for production too - masochistic no doubt lol - but 12.04 was driving me up the wall
<bastubis> I probably should've done a clean install
<bastubis> since my 12.04 was broke anyway
<AlanBell> it has been *really* good for months
<AlanBell> that is the only time I have had an issue and it fixed real quick, not even certain it was a problem in the updates
<bastubis> hmmmm. will archive my ff profile and reboot
<AlanBell> I am using gnome-shell and unity on alternating weeks roughly
<bastubis> I'm ok with Unity (now) as gnome shell is even more annoying
<bastubis> I replaced the heinous shambles of the new nautilus with the whatsit thingy
<bastubis> Nemo
<bastubis> maybe that's causing probs?
<bastubis> ok rebooting, brb
<bastubis> yeah, must'vebeen something in the profile, working fine now
<Laney> gosh
<Laney> anyone get green energy?
<bastubis> you mean uisng a green energy tariff or understanding what it means?
<Laney> preferably a dedicated supplier
<Laney> seems to be Â£loads more than normal
<bastubis> yeah, the r&d is expensive
<bastubis> I got as far as fitting a supply monitor
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> I feel bad about being with EDF given their dubious antics lately
<bastubis> most energy suppliers are dodgy but EDF does seem to be going for tosser gold
<bastubis> then again, I keep meaning to transfer my bank account from lloyds to something less evil but don't get around to it
<Laney> yeah that too
<Laney> doing that is pretty easy these days, at least for DD/SO which are switched automatically
<Laney> just have to fix people who pay you
<Laney> ecotricity's website seems to have crapped itself on me. ho hum
<bastubis> heh, I did think of switching from British Gas but having read reviews of all the other suppliers I just kinda though "what's the point"
<bastubis> it's the credit card that's a big hassle - I tried with Coop but they wouldn't give me a credit card
<davmor2> it's all a big price fixing game anyway, the whole point was that there was competition, same thing for petrol there is now no big difference anywhere
<MsCourtney> Hi, I graphics acceleration is not working on 12.10. Its an Intel GPU. Any ideas?
<MsCourtney> Its really slow graphics wise and there is display corruption sometimes.
<amayer> MsCourtney: did you look in the additional drivers menu?
<ali1234> on intel?
<MsCourtney> ali1234: Its an intel GPU
<directhex> MsCourtney, how recent an intel gpu?
<MsCourtney> directhex: Very recent.
<directhex> xserver-xorg-video-intel version 2:2.20.9-0ubuntu2 ?
<davmor2> MsCourtney: you can try running /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test -p
<MsCourtney> davmor2: Using Kubuntu
<davmor2> MsCourtney: that will at least let you know if your card 3d is working
<davmor2> MsCourtney: hmmmmmm I'm not sure what kubuntu uses
<AlanBell> evening all
<brobostigon> evening AlanBell
<diplo> Evening all
<popey> yo
<davmor2> ^ watch out lads it's the Fuzz
<Alex________> is anyone here?
<Alex________> i need some help
<popey> yes
<popey> oh dear
<AlanBell> gulp, apt-get autoremove is ripping out a gig of stuff
<AlanBell> ok, it knew what it was doing it seems
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-02
<jacobw> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * MartijnVdS is installing Raspbian on his Pi
<popey> morning
<MartijnVdS> morning
<jacobw> Rasputin Pi
<MartijnVdS> popey: so.. my prediction was sort-of correct ;)
<MartijnVdS> popey: re: undocking ;)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: unkillable?
<jacobw> Haha
<popey> the battery was loose
<jacobw> rasputin(1869): operation not permitted
<popey> which i hadn't expected
<MartijnVdS> popey: I predicted a violent crash
<popey> and kinda annoyed me, as I was hoping to see what happened
<popey> wasn't at all violent
<popey> very quiet
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: oh my goodness
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: that's nerdcore :)
<jacobw> it's very special
<jacobw> perhaps i'm mean, i always jump straight to kill -9
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: I found this one in a Â£1 bin once: http://www.amazon.com/Brief-History-Rhyme-Greatest-Hits/dp/B00069YE70
<MartijnVdS> so I bought it
<jacobw> Nice
<popey> i cant watch that video after the bit where he said kill -9
<MartijnVdS> popey: Why not?
<popey> i have this aversion which makes me turn it off
<jacobw> like, cringe avoidance?
<MartijnVdS> Irrational fear of rapping?
<jacobw> That's usually rational
<popey> cringe avoidance I think
<popey> i used to look away sometimes when the office was on
<kvarley> Tegra 4i provides "Up To 2.3Â GHz Quad-Core" ... This has to be put in an Ubuntu phone :)
<popey> that would be nice
<MartijnVdS> popey: I can't watch most things with Ricky Gervais because of cringe
<jacobw> I never even watched The Office
<jacobw> I don't like Gervais
<jacobw> Ja, same thing MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: He's a lot better in "The Invention o[Df Lying"
<MartijnVdS> I could actually watch that
<jacobw> I thought that was kinda boring
 * MartijnVdS is off to the supermarket
<kvarley> Ubuntu Touch Preview ported to Kindle Fire \0/
<jacobw> If it could dual boot, that'd be awesome
<kvarley> jacobw: Technically it can, but you'd have to change the partition layout
<kvarley> jacobw: Not much point at the moment though. No wifi, codecs missing/not working and the ram optimisation is awful
<popey> some people have multi-booted android and ubuntu phone
<MartijnVdS> some people scare me
<cliftonts> AlanBell: Morning
<cliftonts> Busy as always in here I see
<popey> morning
<cliftonts> Aah, there's one. Morning popey
<cliftonts> Mr. Bell has been very quiet recently. Is he especially busy at the moment?
<popey> i dont think he's been quiet
<cliftonts> I asked him if I could have some 12.10 discs a while back and I haven't had a reply since
<cliftonts> perhaps he doesn't like me? lol
<popey> did you send him an sae?
<popey> as per http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<cliftonts> I emailed him and he said he'd look into how to get some to me. I offered to collect and it's been silence ever since
<cliftonts> Odds are I simply know when is the worst time to contact him and he's not at the screen or busy with something
<cliftonts> I don't suppose you know when all the new scopes are due to hit 13.04 do you?
<MartijnVdS> wow.. half-life gets updated a lot on steam
<cliftonts> it does?
<MartijnVdS> every time I start steam it gets another few MB of updates
<cliftonts> is that a good thing? or bad?
<jacobw> Active development is good, right?
<jacobw> Lots of bugs, being fixed. Hmm, lots of bugs..
<cliftonts> I'd say so, and let's hope valve as are serious as they appear to be
<cliftonts>     Am I still online?
<jacobw> I can see you o.o
<cliftonts> Why is it whenever your laptop falls from a height it's always slightly further away than you can reach?
<cliftonts> Oh and I'd just like to say the invisible portion of the scrollbar on 13.04 which takes you to the window underneath is driving me nuts!!!
<MartijnVdS> cliftonts: you can disable the "overlay scrollbars" as they are called
<cliftonts> It's not the scrollbar, it's the fact the whole window stops a sliver short of the edge of the screen
<cliftonts> So I keep clicking on the window behind it
<cliftonts> And the scrollbars on the window in question aren't overlay
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<cliftonts> You'll have to excuse them...they've lost their tongues
<brobostigon> ok.
<cliftonts> I've been trying to chat to people and have about 3 unfinished conversations right now
<cliftonts> how are you anyway?
<brobostigon> cliftonts: not bad overall, busy afternoon to come, and you?
<cliftonts> pretty good, business is taking off and I'm even managing to work a little ubuntu in there for good measure
<brobostigon> :)
<cliftonts> That side of my business totally stalled but I'm determined to make it work
<brobostigon> :)
<cliftonts> I've been trying out 13.04 recently. Asside from a stroppy graphics driver it seems pretty solid
<brobostigon> cool, i have yet to try it,
<cliftonts> I wanted to check out all the new scopes being added to the dash but they aren't there yet
<cliftonts> I must've asked when they are arriving 20 times but people just stop replying when I ask
<brobostigon> ah.
<cliftonts> people don't seem to chat on here, just a few sentences then they're gone again
<brobostigon> cliftonts: it varies, quite alot, have a look at the stats on my server taylorworld.me.uk/ubuntu-uk.html might give you a clearer picture.
<cliftonts> Probably depends on the day and time I guess
<popey> cliftonts: not true
<AlanBell> morning all
<brobostigon> morning popey and AlanBell
<cliftonts> popey: based solely on my observations when I have been on
<AlanBell> hi cliftonts
<popey> cliftonts: which isn't very often âº
<MartijnVdS> cliftonts: you're on at the wrong times :P
<cliftonts> AlanBell: The mystery man returns, how's it going?
<AlanBell> cliftonts: I leave a client logged on 24/7
<cliftonts> popey, MartijnVdS: Very true
<AlanBell> going fine :)
<AlanBell> cliftonts: are you going to the hackntalk thing next weekend?
<cliftonts> AlanBell: I know you do, which is why if I want to get hold of you I often pop in just to see if you're about first
<cliftonts> No, I've been so busy I don't even know what or where it is
<AlanBell> London next saturday
<cliftonts> I saw something about it but didn't pursue it
<AlanBell> I might be up in the Bucks area next Sunday
<cliftonts> Aah, I won't be able to then, it's 'car insurance' week so every penny will be thrown at them
<cliftonts> Yeah? Well could you either grab me some discs or could I swing by yours sometime?
<AlanBell> yeah, I will see if I can arrange to pop by and drop some off, or you can pop down to Farnham any time really
<cliftonts> I think I've made progress on the unity lens creation by the way, my new place isn't up to visitors so I'd love to stop by yours sometime, perhaps we could crack that too?
<AlanBell> we are in the office pretty much every weekday during normal office hours roughly, just give us a shout in advance
<AlanBell> actually the thing on saturday would be quite good for messing with lenses
<AlanBell> I haven't done much with the unity APIs for ages, I dunno how much they are changing to support the new smart scopes thing
<cliftonts> Well just to make it go as it is would be an achievement. It's really bugged me
<cliftonts> hang on, I'm going to send you a link in a second, let me know if this is what we need
<cliftonts> www.cliftonts.co.uk/datafeed_shopmania_zencart.php
<AlanBell> oh they have published a new example lens http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/app-developer-cookbook/unity/creating-a-wikipedia-unity-lens/
<AlanBell> that still doesn't support the privacy flag :(
<brobostigon> btw, are the stats still working properly?
<cliftonts> The list that link creates, is it the sort of thing we need for the lens?
<AlanBell> cliftonts: pretty odd data format, but yeah, that looks workable
<AlanBell> cliftonts: normally there would be some kind of search query that gets passed, but as it isn't a huge store the lens could just scoop up all the product data and search locally I guess
<cliftonts> It's designed to produce a data feed for the shopmania website. It doesn't accept search requests but I figured the code could be modified to support that, or perhaps the results could be filtered within the lens?
<AlanBell> brobostigon: what stats?
<brobostigon> AlanBell: taylorworld.me.uk/ubuntu-uk.html
<cliftonts> As you know the idea was to create a lens for the purple lounge website, which sits at over 3,000 products
<cliftonts> I simply provided that one as it's more suited to being publicly displayed here
<AlanBell> yeah :)
<AlanBell> so, zencart must have some kind of search passing API somewhere
<brobostigon> AlanBell: it was meeting before last, i offered to take over doing the stats.
<AlanBell> looks good brobostigon
<brobostigon> AlanBell: good, i have looked in a few weeks. :)
<brobostigon> havent*
<cliftonts> So basically we have all the parts to the puzzle, we just need to assemble it
<cliftonts> Alright, so how about if I could try to attend this hack thing? Could you bring the discs there? And where can I find the info about it?
<AlanBell> http://hackntalk.eventbrite.com/
<AlanBell> yeah, I can bring a bunch of disks
<cliftonts> Wow, it's quite a long event then
<redtape-renegade> Come on twitter / categories :    .. At least show us you us you give a croissant ! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/twitter%20doesnot%20care%20and%20is%20out%20of%20date.png
<ali1234-v6> hello. could someone pm me the rsa host key fingerprint for robotfuzz.com please?
<jacobw> ali1234-v6: ECDSA key fingerprint is fc:c3:a3:9a:fd:ed:d6:e3:f5:85:d9:c1:1e:4a:cc:a7.
<ali1234-v6> thanks
<ali1234-v6> i must have not used this computer in a while
<penguin42> Pidgin really needs to be taught not to do smiley expansions on strings like that
<ali1234-v6> oh you can disable that
<ali1234-v6> preferences->themes smiley theme = none
<ali1234-v6> in fact putting the smileys into the string probably makes it easier to remember
<ali1234-v6> like that thing where it draws a weird shape from the key
<ali1234-v6> why don't we have that on ubuntu?
<penguin42> you can get it from an ssh config
<SuperEngineer> hi folkies
<AlanBell> Qt Creator seems a bit broken :(
<AlanBell> menus halfway down the screen
<AlanBell> and icky fonts
<AlanBell> oh, menus at the level of the lowest monitor, great.
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: copy those last four lines as a report & you've got a perfect bug report!
<penguin42> it's fine on a single monitor KDE raring
<SuperEngineer> the following is copied from #ubuntu-steam [no response on there]... might be of interest here
<SuperEngineer> has anybody found Steam "self destructs"?  Went to fire it up this morning... it was gone!
<SuperEngineer> [/usr/bin/steam gone... but home dir stuff intact, Steam gone from software centre & reports as uninstalled 05.45 yesterday!]
<SuperEngineer> ...found steam launcher via synaptic and installed from there... now all ok again.  Wierd!
<SuperEngineer> ...& no - I did *not* uninstall it... haven't been near synaptic or software centre since installing it!
<popey> AlanBell: oh? can you show me a screenshot?
<popey> and which version of qtcreator?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Check your /var/log/dpkg.log to see if anything else was happening around then?
 * SuperEngineer checks log
<AlanBell> popey: seems to be a gnome-shell specific thing, on unity it is OK, but doesn't have a global menu
<popey> yes, we have a bug for that and are filing it
<popey> fixing
<AlanBell> 2.6.82
<popey> what version of qt do you have installed?
<AlanBell> which package is that?
<AlanBell> or how do I find out what version?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: no help :( I ran bleachbit after the reinstall to clear any "debris"... dpkg.log only has today's entries... from the [successful] reinstall onwards
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: dpkg.log.1 should be yesterdays ?
<AlanBell> libqt5core5 is Version: 5.0.1+dfsg-0ubuntu3
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: .1 not there... bleachbit was quite thorough
<popey> qtbase iirc
<popey> !info qtbase
<lubotu3> Package qtbase does not exist in quantal
<popey> ok, qt5
<AlanBell> I am using raring
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Hmph yeh that's a bit ott!
<AlanBell> the menus look horrible, and I can't figure out where to start with the UI at all
<AlanBell> just blank panes, I think it is broken
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: thinking back - when 1st trying to reinstall launcher I was given a snafu msg... broken package [even though it reported no broken packages!
<penguin42> ah :-)
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: ...so I got it to fix the zero broken packages... then all ok to reinstall!
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: & just got this reply on #ubuntu-steam "Steam was removed from whatever Ubuntu's using, IIRC."
<SuperEngineer> ????
<popey> AlanBell: we have a customised version for ubuntu phone
<AlanBell> oh, I thought that was going to land in raring
<popey> it will
<popey> but hasn't yet
<AlanBell> I tried to install the custom version but it was quantal only, I just want to have a play with it, I don't have a device with Ubuntu touch on it
<popey> is not quantal only
<AlanBell> so far I feel like this http://xkcd.com/528/
<popey> i have it on raring
<AlanBell> oh good, I will try again
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%202013-03-02%2017:04:21.png
<popey> ubuntu-sdk-team/ppa is where mine came from
<popey> so you dont have any files open
<popey> either file -> new project
<popey> or from the welcome pane
<AlanBell> the buttons on the welcome pane just open empty panes
<AlanBell> the help button on the left opens a different assortment of empty panes
<popey> have you created a project?
<AlanBell> I have now I think
<popey> not much different from gedit tbh, if you don't create or open something you'll be staring at a blank window
<popey> \o/ summer lightning
<AlanBell> well I would expect "IDE overview" or "User Interface" to do something
<penguin42> AlanBell: QT Creator 2.6.82 for me, shows me a side bar with welcome/edit/design/debug/projects/analyse/help, and a central pane with the QT Creator logo, a 'Develop' section with getting started/develop/examples/tutorials
<popey> ide overview takes me to the help
<AlanBell> is there anything in the help, or just blank panes?
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/qtcreator.png
<AlanBell> ok, I don't see that at all
<popey> is qtcreator-doc installed?
<popey> ignore that
<AlanBell> yes, it is installed
<penguin42> AlanBell: http://imagebin.org/248700  is what it looks like for me
<popey> i guess you're using qtcreator built against qt4
<penguin42> help->about qt creator tells you which Qt it's built against
<popey> mine's based on 5.0.1
<penguin42> it feels a bit like eclipse - without being slow as heck
<popey> the one in the repo will be replaced soon
<AlanBell> based on Qt 5.0.1 (64 bit)
<popey> I'd try the sdk build
<popey> thats the one we're working on which will ripple down to raring
<AlanBell> yeah, going to do an update and install the one in the ppa
<AlanBell> this can't be right
<penguin42> AlanBell: That image is from 2.7.0~beta~0ubuntu1 in raring
<AlanBell> Version: 2.7.0~beta-0ubuntu1
<penguin42> hmm snap
<AlanBell> penguin42: so if you click on IDE overview does it give you anything in the panes or just empty?
<popey> ah excellent. 2.7 made the repo
<penguin42> AlanBell: Where is IDE overview?
<penguin42> ah
<AlanBell> in the getting started tab of the welcome thing
<penguin42> AlanBell: A mostly blank set of panes and the stderr has QTextBrowser: No document for http://doc.qt.digia.com/qtcreator/creator-overview.html
<penguin42> going to that URL in a browser works
<AlanBell> ah, that is the help browser, not the IDE
<penguin42> AlanBell: Yep, looks like that goes to the help browser
<penguin42> AlanBell: That sounds like a bug then - I've got qtcreator-doc and qtcreator instaleld
<AlanBell> this thing doesn't feel very native
<penguin42> no, it feels like a self contained Qt app
<popey> yup, it is
<penguin42> heck, it's got integration options with most version control systems
 * AlanBell sees raring instructions added to http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
 * penguin42 doesn't use IDEs as a rule
<popey> I've been using it to test apps by deploying to the phablet
 * AlanBell now has ubuntu bits in the Qt creator
<AlanBell> still no help files
<penguin42> AlanBell: Your menu positioning problem sounds like bug 568179
<lubotu3> bug 568179 in qt-creator (Ubuntu) "qt menus mispositioned on dual head with different resolutions" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568179
<popey> you're probably missing libqt5help5
<penguin42> popey: I've got that
<popey> maybe not...
<popey> qt has a zillion packages...
<AlanBell> I have that
<penguin42> popey: No, I'm sure it's a lot more than that....
<popey> it tries to open qthelp://com.trolltech.assistant.484/qdoc/.....
<popey> e.g. qthelp://com.trolltech.assistant.484/qdoc/assistant-manual.html#the-one-minute-guide-to-using-qt-assistant
<popey> not sure which package delivers that
<penguin42> the only libqt5 packages I haven't got are the databasey ones
<AlanBell> doesn't work in a guest session either
<popey> does the magic install of ubuntu-desktop^ pull anything missing?
<AlanBell> pulls Ubuntu One back in, and some other stuff that looks unlikely to be relevant, but here goes
<AlanBell> still no help :(
<AlanBell> libqt5sql5-sqlite appears to be a missing dependency
<AlanBell> penguin42: try installing that
<AlanBell> suddenly it springs into life and does stuff
<penguin42> ah, I did say I didn't have any databasey stuff
<penguin42> AlanBell: Agreed
<penguin42> AlanBell: File a bug and I'll confirm it
<AlanBell> oh bother to heck, I can't use ubuntu-bug qtcreator
<penguin42> want me to do it?
<AlanBell> it is ok, filing it now
<AlanBell> Bug #1140369
<lubotu3> bug 1140369 in qtcreator (Ubuntu) "libqt5sql5-sqlite is a missing dependency to get the help system to work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1140369
<AlanBell> well that was another entertaining "how on earth am I the first person to get stuck here??" kind of bug
<penguin42> I guess either people new how to use it, or had the sqlite stuff installed
<AlanBell> should the ubuntu tab just launch stuff in an external browser or is it supposed to stay in that UI
<AlanBell> yay, I have a thing running
<AlanBell> and the tutorial is backwards and out of date and wrong
<kvarley-fanless> wow, tizen is basically android
<kvarley-fanless> ubuntu will win purely on looks as weird as that sounds
<penguin42>  'basically android' ?
<kvarley-fanless> penguin42: The UIs are VERY similar
<penguin42> oh UI
<kvarley-fanless> Nothing wrong with a similar UI
<kvarley-fanless> But I just think it's too boring
<kvarley-fanless> Which reminds me, time to download touch preview :)
 * penguin42 really should get something larger than a low spec smartphone to try it on, there are some Nook's going pretty cheap
 * kvarley-fanless is biding his time until Tegra 4i ;)
<kvarley-fanless> Phone + Desktop in one then :)
<AlanBell> there are a few interesting bits of hardware out now
<AlanBell> maybe the next ARM chromebook will be exciting
<kvarley-fanless> AlanBell: Chromebook is interesting but expensive
<kvarley-fanless> AlanBell: ARM 64 support added to the kernel now too which is gonna be interesting.
<kvarley-fanless> I'm off
<AlanBell> well the pixel is expensive
<redtape-renegade> I'd just like to say NAPs are awthome !! I woke up with a couple of 40 winks behind me , just now, and I feel a million bitcoins !!
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Do you thnk the Ggle Pixel will be Ubuntu friendly ??
<AlanBell> well it will boot anything with a 30 second delay
<AlanBell> and a 5 minute delay the first time you try
<redtape-renegade> really, I guess it's not for the local coffee shop, then ??
<AlanBell> it is mildly tempting, but very expensive
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Did yousee the convergence proposal on ubuntu-on-air ??
<AlanBell> the dell xps13 looks much better as a thing to run ubuntu on
<redtape-renegade> agreed ^
<AlanBell> convergence proposal? I saw the rolling release thing
<redtape-renegade> yep, that .. do you think it will pass ?
<AlanBell> yes
<redtape-renegade> oh Ok, that is interesting .. A real shift..
<AlanBell> some details are probably available to be decided, but if Rick wants it then it will happen
<redtape-renegade> .. oh Ok .. I guess your right, Shuttleworth did say he liked him ( in a sorta way) .. a couple of releases ago ..
<AlanBell> http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical/overview/management-team
<redtape-renegade> .. So tablets and mobile get a Superboost    in dev. then :)
<redtape-renegade> opening...
 * redtape-renegade realises this is several levels/stages above us mere mortals on Ubuntu-uk LUG or any other LUG for that matter... 
<redtape-renegade> Quite simply , I am not worthy.
<penguin42> AlanBell: Well the pixel has got a bit more of a display res
<AlanBell> it has, and I like that penguin42, especially the vertical size
<penguin42> http://vger.kernel.org/~davem/chromebook_pixel_linux.txt is a howto on how to nuke chromeos and install something else onto it
<AlanBell> redtape-renegade: heh, not sure if it is up or down or sideways, but the decision has been made, the implementation details are up for discussion perhaps
<SuperEngineer> Dr. Who time folks âº
<redtape-renegade> penguin42: Thats authome !  2 questions . Q1, how do you get a kernel.org subdomain space . Q2, Can I get a google pixel now, or when ?
<redtape-renegade> SuperEngineer: That minced my head last week .. this week .. catch up on youtu.be subscriptions âº
<redtape-renegade> BRBack..
<penguin42> that's not my page
<redtape-renegade> penguin42: & the ETA for Google Pixel ???
<penguin42> redtape-renegade: I dunno - I thought they were out
<penguin42> hmm these are cute; new Intel bare bones box - 4"x4" i3 http://www.hardwarezone.com.my/tech-news-intel-introduces-next-unit-computing-nuc
<MartijnVdS> shiny
<penguin42> tiny
<MartijnVdS> where does one buy it?
<penguin42> http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ConfigureSystem.asp?SystemID=1533# is one, seem to be other UK vendors as well
<MartijnVdS> â¬335 in a Dutch store
<penguin42> nice
<penguin42> it's a bit low spec, but hey it's a nice little box for some uses I guess
<AlanBell> similar spec to my laptop
<AlanBell> probably a touch better in fact
<penguin42> yeh, I was thinking for the money you may as well buy a laptop
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: not all offices want laptops
<MartijnVdS> Digital signage would also be easier to do on this than on a R-Pi
<penguin42> yeh
<redtape-renegade> penguin42: Looks like there are some deducts to be had on ths 'scan.co.uk' website you mentioned .. I can't believe that nero is still going ? Did anyone try there Linux version .. or is that a dead duck ??
<penguin42> has never heard of anyone using it
<redtape-renegade> k
<SuperEngineer> It wories me that day The Dr. dies is the same as my birthday - could it.. could it possibly be that i don't remember the regeneration?  spooky
<MartijnVdS> The Dr. dies?
<SuperEngineer> yup
<SuperEngineer> although I'd be tempted to put that in inverted commas
<redtape-renegade> .. the only guy that liked Dr Who in my year at school ended up being a Brit. Telecoms Engineer .. and I hate those guys .. it's a tough skin club.
<SuperEngineer>  the only guy that didn't like Dr Who in my year at school ended up being a redtape-renegade
<MartijnVdS> BOOM
<redtape-renegade> .. it's a British thing .. I wouldn't understand .
<redtape-renegade> .. and I'm more softcell than tough skin           ;)
<redtape-renegade> .. I did watch it for the 1st time , last week thou.. more like Holby City for the lonely sticky polo eaters bridgade .. but I'll stop there as I don't want to offend people who are being subjegated by the beeb... [Viva RTE !!]
<sebsebseb> hi
<redtape-renegade> Hi sebsebseb saw you with jono last week :)
<shauno> heh, someone actually watches RTE? I feel a tad better about my tv license now :/
<sebsebseb> redtape-renegade: with jono ?
<redtape-renegade> sebsebseb: you were on #ubuntu-on-air, right ?
<redtape-renegade> shauno: redtape-renegade belongs to the Rebel Alliance.
<redtape-renegade> shauno: Is Rep. of Tele back on yet ?
<shauno> no idea, I don't watch terrestrial TV
<redtape-renegade> oh Ok.
<popey> hi sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> redtape-renegade: sure, but not on the Wednesday that just been
<sebsebseb> forgot about it
<sebsebseb> ,but the one before around yeah
<redtape-renegade> shauno: We do get the signal for RTE in Patrick (surprisingly).. My dad and I grew up on watching ManU on RTE Live while others had to pay SkyB to be in the picture .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_(parish)
<shauno> it doesn't seem so surprising .. I used to get s4c (wales) from barrow
<redtape-renegade> a weak comparison, but i understand ;)
<shauno> well, they were about equidistant in my mind because they were both things on the horizon that called for a good day
<shauno> and rf tends to love you not being below the horizon.  especially when the path is nothing but waves
<redtape-renegade> Man I spend to much time exploring other Links than span from my own .. on wikipedia .. (edited afew tonight) .
<redtape-renegade> This requires a new character to be had on Orca,       ..Oh come-on !!  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalby_Spook
<bigcalm_laptop> Hi peeps :)
<redtape-renegade> hi bigcalm_laptop :: What laptop is it tonite ??
 * AlanBell wonders what a "display server in earnest" is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/unity/+spec/unity-ui-iteration-0
<bigcalm_laptop> I've been told to stop working and watch TV with my family instead
<bigcalm_laptop> *grumbles*
<bigcalm_laptop> Taaraa
<AlanBell> o/
<popey> evening all
<brobostigon> evening popey'ness
<popey> AlanBell: how many tickets am I buying?
<KrimZon> AlanBell: sounds important, whatever it is
<popey> just you me and him?
<Laney> i'll go!
<popey> Laney: want me to get you a ticket?
<AlanBell> popey: not sure really, me, Alan Lord, oh, maybe aptanet
 * AlanBell wonders if czajkowski is finally going to meet the cider room
<czajkowski> narp
<czajkowski> it'd be wasted on me tbh
<popey> aww
<redtape-renegade> PCMAG I have failed you once again .. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2416158,00.asp
 * redtape-renegade skurries off to bed,    like the snuggler he is :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-03
<sebsebseb> Anyone about still?
<penguin42> maybe
<popey> yes
<popey> :D
<popey> what brings you here sebsebseb ?
<sebsebseb> popey: bored earlier so joiend some channels, had to turn off computer, came back here
<popey> âº
 * penguin42 has been watching videos from linux.conf.au and afew others
<sebsebseb> popey: we don't need pm now :d
<sebsebseb> popey: ok that's awesome if it's going rolling release
<popey> it's under discussion
<popey> but likely to happen
<popey> can't see it not happening
<sebsebseb> release schedules can cause such issues at itmes, when it comes to having certain things, as I know even more now as well since Mageia
<penguin42> I guess many of us on home machines have treated it as a rolling anyway; as soon as the next version starts to arrive I start running it
<sebsebseb> penguin42: yeah I used to do stuff like that to
<sebsebseb> not run the final stable version for long, because I would be off using the alpah 1 of the next
 * tashs is bored
<penguin42> but for my work machine I previously used LTS (although currently on Quantal); not quite sure what I'll do if that moves to a rolling, I don't really want rolling for my work machine
<sebsebseb> penguin42: I thought the idea was the LTS every two years
<sebsebseb> and instead of versions in between a rolling
<sebsebseb> penguin42: of course LTS's start get old as well after six months or so I guess :d
<penguin42> sebsebseb: Yeh, I ran with 10.04 for a good 2 years on my work machine; I can't really justify screwing around with it too much
<sebsebseb> penguin42: are you still running that now?
<penguin42> sebsebseb: No, when I got a new laptop a couple of months ago I put Quantal on it; probably a mistake, I should have gone with Precise
<sebsebseb> oh
<penguin42> just on the basis I'm going to have to upgrade it again in a few months to keep upto date
<penguin42> it's a bit of a fight getting everything to work by the time I've got dual monitor to work on Nouveau with adding/removing the monitor, and the magic of getting some of our internal programs to work
<Klettbar> hi
<Klettbar> > why in life we can not trust anyone?
<Klettbar>  why is everyone ready to x..x the other
<popey> wut?
<sebsebseb> aww I can't trust you Klettbar  or  popey  or anyone here, maybe not even myself aww heh heh
<popey> wut?
<sebsebseb> well I did put anyone here, so I guess that includes me then to heh heh
<sebsebseb> popey: don't know trying to make a joke out of whatever that was :d
<RZAFC> Anyone know what this means? SYSLINUX 4.06  EDD 4.06-pre-7 Copyright (C) 1994-2010 H. Peter Anvin et al
<redtape-AFK> Good Moaning.. whoops change  o'nick needed too !
<AlanChicken> and mee
<MrBojangles> AlanBell, my old friend.
<redtape-renegade> Anything good on R4 atmo . ? on any other beeb radio channel ??
<redtape-renegade> **or on any ..
<einonm> I'm playing about on a nexus 7 with 13.04 desktop, since I've taken the effort to get multi boot working... It's not particularly stable, is 13.04 desktop on a touch screen device actually a Thing that anyone else is bothering to play with?
<AlanBell> einonm: I think they were mainly using it for performance testing
<AlanBell> the touch stuff is all QML with flingables
<einonm> AlanBell: ok, thanks. I did assume unity would be a bit too hungry for a tablet...
<AlanBell> well I am not sure it is really
<AlanBell> the nice thing about compiz is the GPU does it all
<MartijnVdS> \o/ gpu
<AlanBell> the dash is only slow because it is blocking on slow scopes searching for things
 * MartijnVdS remembers the first UDS where compiz was "a thing"
<MartijnVdS> when wobbly windows on a cube desktop were the coolest thing ever ;)
<AlanBell> tablets and ARM things like the raspberry pi have fairly good GPU capability
<AlanBell> wobbly windows on a cube still is the best thing evar
 * AlanBell is sad that we turn off all the cool stuff
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I want a sound effect with the wobbling though
<AlanBell> I want my 3d desktop I was promised in Jurassic Park
<dwatkins> great, my network driver seems to be making my PC reboot after all
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: A UNIX system? You know that!
 * einonm is currently turning off all the 'cool stuff'... I'm learning to use Awesome with a tmux setup. Got irssi, elinks, mutt and vim all set up this morning
<kvarley> Can anybody think of an open news apI? Bing search doesn't qualify, google's news api is depreciated.
<einonm> kvarley: BBC news?
<kvarley> einonm: Do they have an API/
<kvarley> einonm: All the documentation I find is old. The best I can do with BBC News is get the RSS feed
<einonm> I just remember seeing some custom displays showing BBC news things - http://www.bbc.co.uk/developer/technology/apis.html from a quick google, no news listed tho
<einonm> probably RSS based, thinking about it
<kvarley> Yeah, I'd seen this
<kvarley> Might just write a scraper to get the RSS feed, translate to JSON and go from there
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey>  morning
<brobostigon> morning his-popeyness
<kvarley> einonm: Discovered the Guardian have a semi-decent API. :)
<einonm> kvarley: should have guessed, free API's sound like something the Guardian would be into
<MartijnVdS> they're into it a LOT
<Azelphur> Serious Sam 3 is on special offer today, only Â£6, I picked it up (steam, native)
 * dwatkins thanks for Debian bug contributors and installs the Realtek r8168 module
<dwatkins> So far no crash, looks like my machine mis-identified the card and installed the wrong driver for the r8168, using the r8169
<dwatkins> Should I log a bug? Looks like this is happening in other distros too.
<dwatkins> full details here http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=80757#p469071
<dwatkins> aha bug 839393 seems to address this
<lubotu3> bug 839393 in linux-meta (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Network problem with the r8169 driver and RTL8111/8168B" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/839393
<penguin42> hmph
<popey> getting annoyed with GPU lockups now
<penguin42> which gpu?
<popey> sandybridge
<penguin42> hmm there don't seem to be any face rec programs in the repos, and all the ones I can find on line seem to use opencv which kind of sucks for the free drivers
<penguin42> oh hang on, no it doesn't
<penguin42> I'm confusing opencl and opencv
<mgdm> opencv is excellent
<penguin42> not played with it yet
<sebsebseb> Afernoon people
 * penguin42 is an afternoon person - mornings are terrible
<sebsebseb> penguin42: yeah I am not much of a morning person these days either, well unless I been up all night :D heh heh
<sebsebseb> penguin42: ,but my sleeping isn't that bad at the moment so :d
<penguin42> mgdm: I just had this idea of running face recognition over my browsers webcache
<Darael> penguin42: That sounds like a terrible and wonderful idea.
<penguin42> Darael: Exactly!
<penguin42> Darael: What could possibly go wrong?
<Darael> penguin42: Before thou saidst that, very little.  Now that thou *hast*...
<Darael> Oh, dear.
<penguin42> Darael: It's ok, Person-of-interest is on tonight
<Darael> If anyone remembers when I was musing over Compiz providing both multiple desktops and multiple workspaces, I have at least worked out a way to switch desktops.  xdotool is a Useful Thing.
<Darael> penguin42: ?
<penguin42> Darael: oh, cop like program based around the idea of an all knowing machine that tracks everyones movements from cameras/communication etc
<BigRedS> mutliple workspaces and multiple desktops? I'm going to have to ask what you mean by either :)
<Darael> Workspaces are the Compiz version of what we often refer to as virtual desktops.  Desktops are essentially the same thing, but seperate, and they're what Metacity used (for example).  Compiz actually supports both, and allows one to configure the *number* of each, but provides no way to configure keyboard shortcuts (or any mechanism at all) for *switching* the latter.
<Darael> Unhelpfully, both the GNOME config tools and CCSM have historically referred to their variant as "viewports", as well.
<Darael> (workspaces go within desktops, if it helps)
<Darael> I am given to understand the distinction dates back to fvwm.
<BigRedS> oh lordy. This is all hiliariously more complex than I thought possible
<penguin42> Darael: I think you're saying one of those terms means a single large surface
<BigRedS> there's good reason I go nowhere near anything technical in the gui
<Darael> penguin42: Um... not exactly, because Metacity (for example) traditionally treated desktops as a large surface, but Compiz did the same thing with workspaces.
<Darael> Furthermore, one can name desktops but not workspaces...
<penguin42> Darael: OK; so erm picking any one set of terminology; why do you want both ?
<Darael> Because Reasons?
<Darael> More seriously, a combination of because I can and because I want to know *why* Compiz supports desktops, but only partially.
<penguin42> oh right, obviosuly...
<penguin42> Darael: KDE also has two concepts of virutal desktops; but I don't think either end up as a single large surface these days
<Darael> I find what looks like an unfinished implementation fascinating.
<penguin42> Darael: It's one of those things which you wonder whether it's something that's still being worked on or a dead end
<Darael> Quite.  Although it's been that way for several years, now...
<Darael> I suppose it could be something to do with application segregation when using multiple monitors?
<penguin42> hmm, I wonder if our OpenCV is packaged wrong - but I don't know enough about it - I build libface and it's looking in usr/share/OpenCV for something, we have an /usr/share/OpenCV but most stuff is actually in /usr/share/opencv
<sebsebseb>  
<directhex> where are WEP keys stored in quantal?
<einonm_> directhex: I think they used to be stored in gnome-keyring?
<Darael> einonm_, directhex:  Ones available to all users are somewhere in /etc/NetworkManager, IIRC.  User-specific ones were in gnome-keyring the last I checked, but that was a couple of releases ago.
<directhex> einonm_, WPA keys are
<einonm_> directhex: It's probably easier these days just to crack a WPA key than hunt for the file...
<Darael> einonm_: s/WPA/WEP/, surely?  WPA isn't *quite* that easy to break yet.  Especially with non-dictionary keys.
<moreati> I've seen similar spam emails from 3 different yahoo email accounts in the last couple of days, which seems a large coincidence
<moreati> but I haven't seen coverage to suggest a wider hack/compromise. Anyone heard anything?
<penguin42> moreati: You can never tell where email has come from
<moreati> penguin42: they came from addresses of people I know, and included other's that the sender knows. Whatever sent them had access to the address book of the sending account
<popey> saw this and thought of gord http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ctigYpQSTU
<Darael> Only in Japan.
<penguin42> Darael: I've got to say that's one of the least-weird things I've seen come out of japan
 * penguin42 is more surprised by how long they seem to be cooking the eggs for
<Darael> penguin42: 'tis true.  There's been some *very* odd things out of Japan.
<moreati> They were probably metric minutes
<penguin42> that would be even longer!
<popey> they were quite long minutes, I agree
<penguin42> but if you add all up it was about 25mins - they'd be like rocks by then
<penguin42> Darael: What I expect to see Japan producing is chickens bred to lay eggs in those shapes
<AlanBell> like bonsai kittens?
<Darael> penguin42: Biologically a PITA :P  Especially since the air-bubble will be in an unpredictable location at boiling time.
<penguin42> AlanBell: Exactly!
<Darael> (Yes, boring of me, I know)
<moreati> penguin42: I think the second dunking was in cold water
<penguin42> AlanBell: We don't see enough Bonsai kittens these days - heck there are generations of internet users now who've never even seen a bonsai kitten
<penguin42> Darael: If you think it'd be a PITA just think of the chickens
<Darael> penguin42: I meant for the chickens!
<sebsebseb> 1 2 3 not much going on here
<popey> âº
<popey> evening sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah evening
 * zleap is here
<zleap> just listening to ubuntu podcast
<sebsebseb> zleap: shhh don't tell popey what I just told,  how I don't tend to listen to it,  oh now he know hmm heh heh :d
<zleap> lol
 * popey shrugs
<zleap> i am just putting the ubuntu full circle magazne on my external hdd
<zleap> need to copy to a cd later for the computer group
<popey> ~6000 people have listened to the latest episode
<zleap> wow
<sebsebseb> zleap: hmm I think I downloaded that once or twice
<popey> well, have downloaded âº
<zleap> that is cool
<popey> can't tell if they've listened
<sebsebseb> PC Linux OS also has a magazine that's good, PDF, but again only downloade that like once or twice I think
<popey> yeah, we get around 10K listeners per episode
<zleap> i subscribe
<sebsebseb> popey: I was there for your 100th episode Live I think it was
<popey> heh
<sebsebseb> popey: didn't know LInux Outlaws was on at same time though at the time, but ah well, and again for that one, only heard it properly like once maybe twice, and a bit of eisodes or whatever it was
<sebsebseb> I find it hard to listen to podcasts in general
<sebsebseb> since I would rather listen to music :d
<sebsebseb> and they are so time consuming
<popey> its not on the same time
<popey> they record on monday, we recorded on tuesday last season, wednesday this season
<popey> i listen to more podcasts than music
<zleap> oddly on lubuntu i find k3b more relaiable than brassero whicjh is defalt for burning cds
<popey> i dont think I've had a cd burn fail for years
<sebsebseb> popey: zleap also with a podcast, espeically if the discussion isn't that interesting,  it's easy to end up being distracted by IRC or IM or whatever
<sebsebseb> and then it's like uhmm
<sebsebseb> what are they talking about?
<sebsebseb> oh better go back, since dind't take stuff in properly
<popey> depending on the podcast really
<sebsebseb> zleap: that's not odd at all, same repos as normal Ubuntu
<popey> for bbc comedy, i listen as I am cooking dinner on a friday night
<sebsebseb> yeah or you do something away from computer, whilst listening for example yeah
<sebsebseb> zleap: I like Brasero, but in general yeah it seems it can go wrong at times, and so realy K3B is better,  I like K3B to :)
<sebsebseb> tend to burn stuff with Brasero recently, but it was more so K3B in the past
<zleap> brassero doesn't work properly on my old desktop
<popey> what happens?
 * popey goes to make cheese on toast, brb
<zleap> popey, it seems to hang for ages and the status bar just goes back and forth
<zleap> i have just removed banshee
 * popey boggles
<AlanBell> huh, I appear to have removed skype
<AlanBell> oh, thats why apt-get autoremove got rid of a load of cruft, it took skype out
<AlanBell> and it is uninstallable on raring
<popey> is it?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583787/
<popey> installs here
<AlanBell> where did you get skype_4.1.0.20.0-0ubuntu0.12.04.2_amd64.deb from?
<AlanBell> the multiarch thing from skype.com wants to install most of a 32bit operating system which apt-get autoremove trimmed out last week
<AlanBell> hmm, partner repo
<AlanBell> so that one, depends on skype-bin
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-24
<diddledan> grr @ io blocking
<diddledan> seems to be causing me to disconnect, too
<ali1234> io blocking?
<diddledan> ali1234: my mac appears to hang on heavy io
<ali1234> running linux?
<diddledan> no, osx
<ali1234> oh, well, gl with that :)
<diddledan> indeed
<ali1234> if it was linux i'd tell you to switch to noop scheduler on USB flash drives
<ali1234> that seems to fix it
<shauno> is it on usb?
<diddledan> I am actually in the process of getting ubuntu installed, which brought this issue to light. copying my music onto a fat32 partition caused my mac to completely grind to a halt
<shauno> I'd be kinda worried about that
<shauno> it shouldn't be struggling at all.  have you tried fsck/DU ?
<shauno> (or are you just copying all your files onto a drive that's acting broken, and then gonna pull a sadface when it turns out they never made it)
<diddledan> it's my inbuilt system drive
<diddledan> it seems to be ok again now
<diddledan> stil doing a poo-load of io but it's not hanging anymore
<shauno> I'd still be tempted to pop open Disk Utility and see if Verify coughs up any fs corruption, etc
<diddledan> I wonder if I was writing to blocks that hadn't been trim'd
<shauno> or find some other way to verify the contents once they get there.  because that's a pretty dodgy scenario.  you move everything from A to B so that A has space to wipe & install ubuntu.  and then find out that B is buggered and it's all gone
<shauno> reminds me of a mistake I made installing debian *years* ago though.  moved everything from disk1 to disk2 so disk1 was nice and clean and empty
<shauno> and then accidentally installed debian to disk2 instead
<diddledan> it'll all be "in the cloud" if it is buggered
<diddledan> sorry language*
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> that's one annoying thing about unices but it can also be an advantage - the naming of block devices can be pretty random
<diddledan> you know it's disk one in osx but it suddenly becomes sdb in loonicks
<diddledan> disk1*
<diddledan> disk0* even
<shauno> well, that was seriously potato-era.  I'd be just as welling to blame human error.  some lessons you just can't forget
<diddledan> mm, mashed potato
<shauno> here's trivia; if you boot a mac from efi on usb, the disks are always numbered backwards
<shauno> on the plus side it means the boot media is always disk0.  on the down side it means my two hdd are reversed
<shauno> but even grub-efi behaves the same
<shauno> anyhoo, I'm off to bed.  but distrust and verify; the only time I've managed to sink mine so hard that other apps were unresponsive, was when I went 300Gb into swap with a Blender accident
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> blender accidents sound messy, but fun
<shauno> capital-B for a reason ;)
<shauno> (watch /var/log/system.log too.  it's surprisingly not useless)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> 300GB?
<ali1234> fairly easy to do
<ali1234> convert a video file to animated gif and open in eog, it will allocate hundreds of gigabytes because it tries to hold every frame uncompressed in memory
<ali1234> the animated gif may be only a couple of GB
<daftykins> D:
<ali1234> also the oomkiller won't kill it until it has actually used all that memory due to copy-on-write
<daftykins> that seems greatly flawed
<shauno> it was my first attempt at rendering minecraft maps.  I suspect I bot off too big a chunk
<ali1234> so this will lock up the machine for a rather long time
<shauno> (and osx pages to dynamic files rather than a partition, so it'll happily eat swap until it runs out of disk)
<ali1234> lol that's even worse
<ali1234> anyway, cgroups fixes this i hope
<ali1234> we can reserve physical memory for the system and force other processes to swap
<ali1234> so now swap is actually useful again :)
<shauno> most the time it's happy because I live in <64Mb swap.  when it's not happy it's really not happy
<popey> \o/
<popey> surprised my laptop is only using 560KB swap at the moment
<popey> KiB Mem:  16314212 total, 15742300 used,   571912 free,     1700 buffers
<popey> KiB Swap:  8501244 total,      560 used,  8500684 free.  9165432 cached Mem
<ali1234> why would it use any at all when you have 16GB?
<popey> chromium
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> popey: how many tabs? XD
<ali1234> you haven;t even used 8GB
<popey> not so many today
<popey> yeah, today
<ali1234> chromium isn't *that* heavy on ram
<popey> its way better than it was
<popey> it is with 2 profiles open with ~60 tabs open
<popey> but as I say,things are better now
<popey> there was a monster xorg leak recently which was solved, which makes me happy
<ali1234> was that the crashy one?
<shauno> swapping a little isn't always a bad thing.  if something genuinely hasn't been touched for hours, it makes sense to write it out
<popey> no, leaky one
<popey> I have a new crasher!
<shauno> what do you win when you collect them all?
<popey> bug 1283568
<lubotu3> bug 1283568 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Desktop crashes when docking/undocking" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1283568
<popey> also crashes when changing resolution
 * popey changes the title of that bug
<ali1234> this is why i use nvidia
<popey> well indeed
<shauno> are they not the same thing?  undocking for me means a monitor goes missing
<ali1234> incidentally, unity-greeter is broken with nvidia on trusty
<popey> oh?
<popey> wfm
<ali1234> it ignores the xorg.conf, which means you can't arrange your monitors
<ali1234> this persists into the user session
<ali1234> doesn't happen with the other lightdm greeters
<ali1234> it's probably something to do with mir. does 14.04 use XMir by default for unity?
<popey> its nothing to do with mir
<popey> there's no mir in 14.04
<popey> i did have a problem with lightdm last week though
<popey> i switched to gdm for a day
<ali1234> what was the problem?
<popey> i dont know.
<popey> well, lightdm wouldn't start
<popey> or would, sometimes
<ali1234> hmm.. worked okay for me with the gtk-greeter
<popey> both on intel and nvidia, very inconsistent and I needed to work so just installed gdm and forgot it
<ali1234> i dont really understand why the greeter makes any difference, i mean lightdm runs the X server
<popey> well no
<popey> lightdm runs its own x server
<popey> AIUI
<popey> â not an expert
<popey>  /var/log/lightdm/ reveals its own xorg log separate from /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<ali1234> lightdm runs the X server, then it runs the greeter inside it. then the greeter exits and the desktop loads up. same X server
<popey> hm
<popey> i thought they were separate, huh.
<ali1234> we use this in xubuntu to keep the wallpaper present when the session loads up
<popey> ah, nice.
<ali1234> it's also why the nvidia and unity=greeter problem persists into the session
<popey> flicker-free stuff?
<ali1234> yeah
<popey> nice
<ali1234> lightdm does it's own logging of the X server for the lock screen. that can be implemented as a second X session (although that doesn't work to well and i think all sessions dropped it because of the console kit mess)
<diddledan> what does consolekit do?
 * diddledan googles
<diddledan> aah it's deprecated
<diddledan> in favour of further monoliticating systemd
<diddledan> monolithicating**
<ali1234> when you switch to a different VT (ie ctrl-alt-f1) console kit changes the permissions on the audio devices for "security"
<ali1234> also does a bunch of other stuff
<ali1234> this means your audio stops playing when the screen locks, if a second X session is used
<popey> bedlington
<popey> nn
<ali1234> musingly this actually provides no security at all
<diddledan> nn popey
<ali1234> it only happens because pulseaudio cooperates with console kit
<ali1234> a malicious user can open devices and keep access, because linux does not support revoking file descriptors
<ali1234> so for example you can login, open the webcam, then switch user... and then spy on whoever logs in next
<diddledan> nice!
<ali1234> console kit will change the permissions on the device so that you can't open it any more, but you already opened it...
<shauno> I tend to nuke consolekit because I don't like it taking up half a screen of top on headless machines / VMs
<diddledan> does -server even install it?
<shauno> it appears so
<ali1234> yes, because it works with VTs and there are always VTs
<diddledan> I don't see any on a vm I run
<shauno> I tend to get a bit obsessive about keeping a short process list though.  I even kill gettys I don't want
<diddledan> there's a load of kworker
<diddledan> and ksoftirqd
<ali1234> i guess actually it is not installed
<diddledan> and migration and watchdog, but no consolekit
<shauno> hm, I wonder why I keep ending up with it
<diddledan> maybe the cloudimage release includes it where a from-scratch install doesn't
<daftykins> g'night all, have a good week \o
<diddledan> nn daftykins
<shauno> it appears to be present in http://releases.ubuntu.com/12.04/ubuntu-12.04.4-server-amd64.list
<diddledan> shauno: but then so is bind9 which afaik isn't installed by default
<diddledan> and byobu
<shauno> right, that's offered up by tasksel at the end of the install
<diddledan> exactly it's optional so that list tells you squat about what's installed by default
<shauno> otoh it's probably on the disk for a reason.  it's a bit late for me to try it now, and I can't remember where the seeds are
<shauno> but I've certainly never installed it intentionally, because it's frankly braindead on a VM
<map> hm
<map> how can i make something simply start when my machines boots up
<map> say shoutcast for example
<map> i thought i could just make a basic script launching the shoutcast dameon chuck it in /etc/init.d and do update-rc.d?
<ali1234> there are multiple ways to do it
<map> ah
<ali1234> that isn't one of them though
<ali1234> do you really want it to run on bootup?
<ali1234> or when you log in?
<map> on boot id prefer
<diddledan> for the basic script approach I believe /etc/rc.local is still supported
<map> for on login i could use /etc/profile.d no?
<ali1234> yes. you can also set cron job @reboot i think
<diddledan> yes @reboot cron jobs also work
<ali1234> for running things at login use xdg-autostart
<ali1234> also you can use upstart to do both (if your session supports it)
<diddledan> the advantage of @reboob cron is that any user with cron access can run a script at reboot under their own userspace
<diddledan> they don't need root perms is what I mean
<map> i see upstart? not sure what that means ..seen it mentioned when i was reading some docs
<diddledan> upstart is a replacement for init
<diddledan> it's jobs are defined in /etc/init/
<diddledan> they're not "standard scripts" however
<map> ah
<map> can you not use old init and upstart then?
<diddledan> the advantage of upstart vs the older method of scripts in /etc/rc?.d/foo is that the latter is purely alphabetically ordered and executes in series whereas upstart jobs can start in parallel and can be fired based on more than just init-level
<diddledan> runlevel**
<diddledan> e.g. start the ntp client only after network is fully operational and can reach the outside world
<map> ya
<diddledan> it's actually defined more like "when network starts I want ntp client to start" rather than being a limit it's a "as soon as this happens I want that to occur"
<diddledan> inverted order of control I guess
<diddledan> each job defined what flags cause it to start and as soon as that flag is waved the job begins
<diddledan> the flag can be waved by any number of different actors, though, so it makes for really fine-grained control
<map> is upstart only ubuntu though?
<diddledan> yes, and it's also going to be dropped at some time in the future (post 14.04) when debian migrates to systemd
<map> oh
<diddledan> but for the forseeable future it's staying until systemd is properly tested and integrated by debian
<map> confusing..so what does say suse use?
<ali1234> systemd
<map> ah ok
<ali1234> everything uses systemd except for slackware, gentoo, ubuntu, and chromeOS
<diddledan> debian 8 doesn't feature freeze until november(?) so we're not likely to see systemd in ubuntu until 15.04 at the ealiest (IMO - large grain of salt required)
<ali1234> oh and debian for now
<ali1234> of those, only ubuntu and chromeOS use upstart
<diddledan> gentoo uses it's own concoction
<ali1234> well the same could be said of ubuntu
<diddledan> I guess slackware still runs initv?
<ali1234> prolly
<mapps> stupid router
<mapps> :D
<diddledan> so now that galaxynexus isn't supported on ubuntu touch is there an unofficial port yet?
<ali1234> ask popey tomorrow
<diddledan> willdo
<diddledan> it looks like cdimage.ubuntu.com is still getting precompiled dailies
<diddledan> for maguro (gnex)
<ali1234> also dholbach seemed to be interested in coordinating community efforts
<stgraber> diddledan: it's not, look at the actual timestamp
<ali1234> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg05892.html
<diddledan> stgraber: from here? http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/
<stgraber> diddledan: right
<diddledan> stgraber: looks up-to-date to me
<ali1234> what do you mean by "actual timestamp"
<stgraber> diddledan: if you look, all files are from the 24th except for maguro that's from the 22nd
<stgraber> diddledan: ah no, not that link
<stgraber> diddledan: that shows you old images from the 20th
<stgraber> diddledan: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/pending/ for the actual recent one (after maguro was deprecated)
<diddledan> aah yes
<ali1234> so you really only stopped 4 days ago?
<ali1234> or is that just how long it took for the code to bitrot to the point of not building?
<diddledan> lol
<ali1234> when i did the galaxysmtd port it took about a month before it was totally broken by ubuntu changes (to the point of not even producing an image), so that would be about right
<stgraber> ali1234: I'm not sure about the details, though I suspect maguro was removed as a build target of the android package, at which point it caused cdimage to fail to extract the files and everything to get in the current state
<diddledan> well. theoretically my gnex isn't required for day-to-day usage so I guess I could _try_ to come up with a port myself
<stgraber> ali1234: cdimage expires files after a week, so I'd expect maguro to be completely gone by then
<diddledan> is the buildd setup documented anywhere? and the CI train? i.e. could I replicate the infrastructure easily (following a guide)?
<diddledan> I guess I need to join ubuntu-touch
<diddledan> #
<ali1234> that's basically the question dholbach asked on the ML. nobody answered
<diddledan> stgraber: you've got a nice post on your blog on setting up a touch image server :-)
<Hornet> fun question: how can I move an entire filesystem to another drive, on an existing machine?
<Hornet> background: building a server, which comes with a 250gb drive. once this is set up and my raid array is installed and tested, I'd want to move the OS to the raid, and replace the 250 with a 1tb drive
<Hornet> short of having the whole damn thing running from a USB stick for however long the raid takes to be tested & build, the simplest option I can think of is simply reinstall the entire OS?
<MartijnVdS> Hornet: it is possible to copy filesystems, either "all content" or *everything*
<diddledan> Hornet: you'll want to do it offline. either tar it up and copy across, or rsync it across or dd it block-by-block
<diddledan> ello MartijnVdS
<Hornet> hm
<MartijnVdS> or fsarchiver only he used blocks
<MartijnVdS> he=the
<Hornet> I suppose if everything's referencing the mount point rather than the uuid, it might be okay with that
<diddledan> ooh, I not heard of fsarchiver before
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://www.fsarchiver.org/Fsarchiver_vs_partimage
<Hornet> it's new to me too
<Hornet> sounds interesting though
<MartijnVdS> Hornet: no better time to learn ;)
<Hornet> http://clonezilla.org also interesting
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> mornin
<MooDoo> another day eh!
<jussi> monday :/
<diddledan> so.. umm.. the lego movie.. discuss
<diddledan> (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ_JOBCLF-I)
<MooDoo> diddledan: not seen it, but my son and wife loved it
<diddledan> looks completely insane
<diddledan> argh, why on ubuntu when you click "restart" after doing a load of updates (on a button that says "restart") does it then pop up another box asking if you want to restart or shutdown?!
<diddledan> surely it would be simpler to just restart at that point, no?!
<diddledan> considering the button actually says "restart"
<MooDoo> It's ubuntu being nice to you ;)
<diddledan> yeah but from a UX standpoint it sucks
<MooDoo> yup
<mapps> hey
<mapps> morning
<MooDoo> morning mapps
<diddledan> if you click a button that says "restart" it seems to me it would be a good idea to actually do that
<diddledan> it's almost as bad as windows UAC: "are you sure you wanted to click that button?"
<jussi> diddledan: total +++++ from me!
<diddledan> contempt: your internet is broken yet again
<mapps> sup guys
<mapps> y'all ever sleep diddledan ?:P
<diddledan> mapps: sometimes
<diddledan> mapps: depends which underwear I'm wearing I guess
<mapps> ;]
<diddledan> I'll sleep tonight
<mapps> air enough
<mapps> *fair
<mapps> just listening to coldplay - fix you live at glasto :D
<jussi> diddledan: sleeps every tuesday for 3 hours.
<jussi> :P
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I don't sleep, I regenerate
<jussi> hahhah
<MooDoo> I'm a vampire, so I'm ok as well
<mapps> gotta decide soon
<mapps> if im going back this year
<diddledan> it's either that or kel'nareem
<mapps> the older i get the less i can be bothered with festivals really
<jussi> MooDoo: "He's a vampire and he's ok, he sucks all night and he sleeps all day" :D
<mapps> lugging stuff there..camping on uncomfortable ground and then lugging it all back
<diddledan> mapps: and mud
<mapps> yep
<jussi> and smelly people
<diddledan> mapps: and portastinkyloo
<mapps> i thought it was all fun when i was i guess 20-21
<mapps> im 29 now
<mapps> not sure if i can be bothered
<mapps> its pretty horrific train from Paddington -> Castle Carey then like a 30min back breaking walk bags /tent/bags full of booze
<mapps> to then go to sleep in a field and be uncomfortable
<mapps> if you could drive/somehow get right to the campsite itd be different
<mapps> but its an absolute killer
<mapps> true detective is so good
<diddledan_> true detective?
<MooDoo> mapps: damn has the first ep of that been on?
<MooDoo> diddledan_: new detective show
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait davmor2_
<MooDoo> oooo freenode still being ddos'd?
<jussi> yeah, for like... the last 3 weeks? :P
<MooDoo> jussi: sigh :( best get ready for another day of red [Netsplit]
<jussi> MooDoo: :/
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> Good weekend MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah not bad thanks, just looking at storage solutions and making my own :)
<jussi> MooDoo: what kind of storage solutions?
<MooDoo> jussi: big nas, ever heard of backblaze?
<MooDoo> jussi: just thinking something like this - http://blog.backblaze.com/2013/02/20/180tb-of-good-vibrations-storage-pod-3-0/
<diplo> Storage solutions for work ? I'm guessing at that size :)
<MooDoo> diplo: well no home/friends/potential something in the future ;)
<jussi> MooDoo: interesting.
<MooDoo> diplo: got a lot of friends who do photography who want storage off site.
<diplo> Just reading the page, I'm guessing you're not going for the 180TB size ? Be rather large and loud and hot
<MooDoo> diplo: no bit extreame for me at the moment, but if it's in a DC does it matter?
<diplo> ah yes, you work at heart ?
<MooDoo> diplo: I do, but not for here, personal project
<diplo> Yeah but I mean you get low cost hosting ?
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah
<diplo> Ah right, I was going to say wouldn't a microserver be anygood with 6 or so 4TB drives but that's better
<MooDoo> open to all suggestions, just looking around at moment :D
<ali1234> remember to partition each disk into 500GB partitions for maximum efficiency
<ali1234> then make each one a separate samba share
<jussi> MooDoo: have you had a glance at owncloud? (no idea if it is suitable for you, but its being used out there)
<MooDoo> jussi: I'll have a look, thinking about freenas as well
<jussi> wow, Nokia, now owned by MS, releases android phones... http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/24/5440498/nokia-x-android-phone-hands-on
<jussi> 109â¬ only for the 5" model
<diddledan_> that's cheap
<jussi> yeah, and 89â¬ for the base, 4" model
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<NET||abuse> hi folks, i'm trying to start using google tasks for a bit now, but unity-gtasks-indicator isn't available for 13.10
<NET||abuse> sorry, google-tasks-indicator,, wrong name
<NET||abuse> every google shows that as the thing to grab to use it, but no joy here. anyone have a solution?
<NET||abuse> I want something that i see on my desktop, my mobile and the fact it's in my email interface is handy, even adding calendar events automatically which then show up on my indicator applet too
<NET||abuse> so it seems like a good solution if i can just get the native desktop peice
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Bartender Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: cheers!
<jussi> Bartender day!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<jussi> Ill have to go to the bar then!
 * JamesTait feels a disclaimer may have been a good idea.
<NET||abuse> hmm, pup eh?
<NET||abuse> errr... pub I mean
<NET||abuse> need a good wifi pub
<MooDoo> pub beer
<BigRedS> A little while ago there was a bug whereby odd lines of text wouldn't render properly (in terminals, Firefox textareas etc.); anyone remember that and/or what a workaround was?
<BigRedS> I'm sure I had it but it's not in the short list of bugs associated with my name on launchpad
<hazrpg> \o
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<MooDoo> morning
<hazrpg> good morning to you too :)
<hoover> Morning
<brobostigon> morning hoover
<brobostigon> morning hazrpg
<jussi> hrm, I didnt think I was supposed to be this energetic on a monday...
<MartijnVdS> jussi: you shouldn't have gone to the pub this early ;)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: hahahah
<jussi> these look interesting if you have a mac/iphone/ipad...
<jussi> http://lastucase.com/product/lastu-for-macbook-proair/
<jussi> (knightwise Im looking at you :D )
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<DJones> Yup, you're still here
<MooDoo> ah well I'm still in two minds over my nas setup lol
<bigcalm> DJones: that's debatable
<bigcalm> DJones: did you pick a laptop?
<DJones> I've picked on, just waiting for the chance to get it
<bigcalm> I'm still very pleased with the one I bought. Excited for the 14.04 release but the system is pretty stable as is
<MooDoo> aparrently system 76 do so pretty hot laptop
<MooDoo> s
<DJones> This is what I'm looking at http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Y510p-15-6-inch-Laptop-Dusk/dp/B00HR6TXF8/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1393241815&sr=1-1&keywords=y510p
<MooDoo> looks nice
<diddledan> I just discovered someone's forked xchat
<diddledan> hexchat is the new name :-p
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> I havent used anything except quassel for ages...
<diddledan> c.f. http://hexchat.github.io
<MooDoo> diddledan: but free for both platforms
<jussi> its just too ideal for me :)
<diddledan> MooDoo, at last
<diplo> I've debated going back to a irc app rather than irssi
<diplo> I really want tiled windows though
<diddledan> they've put some actual development effor into it besides just staving off bitrot
<MooDoo> I prefer irssi as I can use it at work ssh'd into my vps
<diddledan> I like point-n-click
<diplo> I can never get tiling right in irssi, so I've left it with alt+<char>
<diddledan> in related news, however, my workstation is now back on ubuntu!
<MooDoo> woohoo
<diddledan> osx-begone
<MooDoo> diddledan: hackintosh?
<diddledan> well, I say "gone" it's still installed but grub prolly can't boot it
<diddledan> nah, this is a bona fide macbook pro
<diddledan> retina no less
<MooDoo> 13.10 or 14.04? diddledan ? as the lts has lovely corner smothing for icons :D
<diddledan> I've og t14.04 on here for now
<diddledan> got*
<diddledan> the ui scaling thing doesn't appear to change anything though for me
<MooDoo> yay 14.04 is nice, albeit alpha
<diddledan> maybe I should logout and back-in?
<diddledan> I'ma try that
<diddledan> brb
<bigcalm> I've been using ychat on Windows (when I have to use Windows) but it's very out of date and unmaintained now
<ikonia> diddledan: did you say you have 14.04 of a retina mbp
<diddledan> ikonia, yes
<ikonia> diddledan: has the font/retina problem been resolved ?
<diddledan> ikonia, I don't know what problem that is to be able to tell you whether it's been fixed or not
<ikonia> it was to do with how retina displayed certain ubuntu fonts, it couldn't do them nativly when using retina resolutions so used to mess up scaling them
<ikonia> mess up, scaling them, not "upscaling" them
<diddledan> ikonia, the scaling slider doesn't appear to change any scaling on mine
<ikonia> ok, so probably still broke at some level then
<diddledan> so I can't tell you about any issues with specific quirks
<diddledan> it's just completely broken for me
<diddledan> everything appears at 1x no matter what I put the slider at
<popey> where are you seeing teh slider?
<popey> (because the slider is gone for me)
<diddledan> popey, in "System Settings -> Screen Display"
<popey> ah
<popey> I'm not touching that
<popey> makes my x splode
<bigcalm> Poor eggs
<MooDoo> bigcalm: stop with the eggs jokes already, I'm not eggagerating you know....you'll put these kind yolks off from logging into irc
 * popey ponders lunch
 * MooDoo has given up coffee and meat for the week :S
<davmor2> MooDoo: mad fool
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah trying to see if it'll make me feel any better
<davmor2> MooDoo: greentea with lemon.  Or take up drinking Mate (pronounce Matee)  from argentina :)
<MooDoo> cheers :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: just got myself a white tea bag, trying that
<davmor2> MooDoo: a standard tea doesn't drop the caffeine so you are still in the same boat other than not eating meat :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: It's organic white tea, i'm sure it's not as bad as the coffee I drink right?
<MooDoo> davmor2: ps how was that qa thing you went to?
<davmor2> MooDoo: ah right sorry :)]=
<hazrpg> morning brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> afternoon hazrpg :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Busy as hell and in a crappy timezone with slowband so happy to be home :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yay, saw the pics of you, you broke the camera ;)
<hazrpg> brobostigon: yeah I just realised the time - time flies quickly, feels like it was just 10am a moment ago o.O
<davmor2> No I didn't :P  it was a phone :D
<brobostigon> hazrpg: very true, it does, :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: pah I'll come next time and take real photos ;)
<hazrpg> brobostigon: ^_^
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: an Ubuntu phone? ;)
<popey> davmor2: did you get my pm?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: no idea I didn't take it
<davmor2> popey: no
<foobarry> i think he likes eating interseting food
<foobarry> but says this is the worst thing he's ever eaten. he's eaten weird stuf too, he makes a habit of it
<MooDoo> sigh netsplits again
<foobarry> 7 houses burgled in my rd in 2 weeks and 1 car nicked :(
<MooDoo> ouch
<popey> time to move
<MooDoo> pah all these cool ubuntu phone posts I'm seeing and I can't use it pah.....
<popey> â»
<davmor2> MooDoo: yes you can part chop your phone for n4 and install away :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: the new MWC image is beautiful if that helps at all :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: galaxy s3 so no
<davmor2> MooDoo: I thought there was a port for the s3
<MooDoo> davmor2: there is but it's mostly non working
<diddledan> can I get the mwc image on my maguro?
<MooDoo> davmor2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/i9300
<foobarry> it might only be 2 guys doing the burgling
<foobarry> cheeky since one got caught last week
<popey> we had a notification come round from the cops that people were speculatively tapping on doors to see who was in at what time in the area
<foobarry> its all night time stuff
<davmor2> MooDoo: so there you go it works :P  I would get a back up of your phone and if you can a fresh copy of you devices image too :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i had enough problems with cyanogenmod, not playing with ubuntu touch, will wait until one is released natively
<bigcalm> popey: have you played Journey of a Roach? I think you'd like the puzzler
<popey> no
<bigcalm> Windows only sadly
<popey> oooh http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/image-bq-aquaris-ubuntu-phone
<diddledan> why can't ubuntu one follow symlinks to a separate filesystem?
<diddledan> i.e. my music folder is a symlink to a system-mounted partition
<diddledan> ubuone refuses to share it though
<daftykins> i looked at a real beast for a friend today
<daftykins> picture frame costing software running under XP on a PIII 800 with 128MB RAM \o/
<popey> heh
<popey> I still have a "customer" using DOS on an Amstrad PC1640 â»
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> do they backup?
<popey> yes
<popey> he still uses a proprietary text editor from the past
<popey> DOS based
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> my dad still stands by an old spreadsheet program called Supercalc which he says had far less of even today's MS Excel limitations
<neuro> So long, Egon Spengler :(
<popey> aww
<diddledan> I really should have some lunch
<diddledan> mapps, not only do I not sleep, but I don't eat either :-p
<neuro> not sure what to watch tonight
<neuro> Ghostbusters or Groundhog Day
<popey> neuro: Ghostbusters is on my list now.
<neuro> yeah, i'm thinking same
<neuro> i watched groundhog not that long ago
<neuro> and ghostbusters II recently
<neuro> but haven't watched the original in a while
<neuro> bah
<neuro> i must have not redownloaded it after my Great RAID Disaster of 2011
<neuro> to the obtainage machine!
 * popey hugs netflix
<daftykins> neuro: did you lose much?
<popey> reminds me, should put netflix on the kids phone
<neuro> about 5TB
<mapps> grmpf fell asleep during true detective
<neuro> i had 6 1TB USB drives in a soft RAID5 array
<neuro> one drive failed and i hadn't noticed
<neuro> i noticed when the second one failed
<neuro> lost A Lot
<daftykins> :(
<neuro> hmmm
<neuro> 19G 1080p
<neuro> ETA 6 minutes
<daftykins> neuro: not sure if you've seen me speak of mine, but it's a Jan 2008 built 6 x 1TB RAID5 on a 3ware controller
<daftykins> getting on a bit now, disks all out of warranty - could pop at any time
<neuro> yeah, if i'd done that, i'd have noticed
<neuro> bought a bunch of 2TB WD greens and slapped them in a couple of Netgear ReadyNAS boxes
<neuro> much better
<daftykins> i need to investigate why i'm not getting my friday night verification emails actually
<daftykins> :D
<neuro> 4 mins \o/
<diddledan> my setup is pretty n00bish by comparison
<diddledan> 2x2TB RAID1
<daftykins> tbh internet connections are getting to the point where stashing isn't so necessary anymore
<diddledan> (actually 1x2 and 1x3 but who's counting?
<daftykins> but i certainly prefer storage over any of these streaming services
<neuro> i pick and mix
<neuro> for stuff i don't care that much about that's on netflix, i'll stream
<mapps> pff ive got 6mbit;p so i need to stash;p
<neuro> for stuff i do care about, i'll obtain
<neuro> for stuff i really care about, i'll obtain in 1080p
<daftykins> *nod* 1080p and DTS \o/
<neuro> speaking of which ... 2.5 mins \o/
<daftykins> unless it's pre-HD film era then 720p is fine
<neuro> oh yeah, DTS
<neuro> "pre-HD"?
<daftykins> you know like, non-native HD cameras
<mapps> yea
<neuro> what??
<daftykins> or just of an age where you know it won't benefit
<mapps> like oldie films
<neuro> are you mental?
<daftykins> no i'm practical
<neuro> i have a 1080p copy of Vertigo, it's bloody gorgeous
<daftykins> is that that Stallone climbing one?
<neuro> *slap*
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> surely if it wasnt originally filmed in hd then a h version isnt gonna be great
<neuro> you're having a laugh
<daftykins> mapps: nah film recapture can be quite good
<neuro> well shot, well preserved film > digital HD
<neuro> and when I say "HD", I mean 2K
<neuro> Phantom Menace was shot in 2K
<neuro> i mean, come on
<daftykins> neuro: next you're going to tell me you can tell the difference between blurays and >10Mb transcodes :(
<neuro> daftykins: in some cases ... :)
<daftykins> lol
<mapps> hm
<neuro> < 1 min!!!
<daftykins> goodbye!
<daftykins> this conversation is clearly not worth it :)
<mapps> lol
<mapps> how do they convert an old non HD film to HD then
<neuro> well, the difference between rips and remuxes ...
<daftykins> ultimately, scanning it in
<daftykins> neuro: pretty sure my wording reigned in the definition sufficiently
<neuro> hehe
<daftykins> muxing doesn't change anything too
<neuro> i wasn't deliberately being awkward, sorry
<diddledan> mapps, if it was recorded onto celluloid (cine) then it'll be pretty difficult to not tell that it wasn't a modern film
<daftykins> ;) np
<neuro> BOOM
<neuro> 18.23G in ~ 6.5 mins
<mapps> what you doing?
<daftykins> average speed in MB/sec ?
<neuro> "obtaining" Ghostbusters
<neuro> daftykins: pff wasn't watching that closely
<neuro> was peaking at about 450Mbps
<daftykins> see i wouldn't go so high as 18GB for a film of that age
<neuro> see, this is where i get confused
<diddledan> hmm I made a sentence with a triple negative?
<diddledan> my Brian hurts now
<daftykins> sedate Brian and reword it
<daftykins> ;)
<neuro> the copy i just "obtained" is the 4K remaster from last year
<neuro> and age really has nothing to do with it
<neuro> look at some of the stuff Criterion or Lowry do
<daftykins> 4K D:
<neuro> they scan in the negs at 4K or 8K
<neuro> where applicable, they do damage repair and colour correction
<mapps> 8k wow
<neuro> then making a 2K release for blu ray or broadcast is straight forward from htere
<diddledan> as I say, film is pretty diffcult to tell apart from digital hd when it's captured right
<mapps> how do they 'scan it in' that confuses me wouldnt they have to film it in 4k/8k
<diddledan> the problem is we have a lost decade or two of video-only productions
<neuro> and like i say, if the transfer is done well, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between something shot on a decent Panavision 35mm from 40 years ago and something shot last week on a RED
<daftykins> nah they have machines that do the mechanical process of a projector but just one frame at a time, then scan in each individual one
<daftykins> then their teams go nuts on the scans reworking them as neuro says
<mapps> ahh ok reworking frame by frame?!
<mapps> wow
<daftykins> well obviously digital techniques can speed that up
<mapps> so what does it mean to scan it in at 8k then if its still got to be reworked
<mapps> ea
<daftykins> the easiest of which would be those disney animated ones, where they can practically just colour fill the cells :D
<neuro> mapps: "film it in 4k/8k" ...
<mapps> yea
<neuro> 35mm is about 5K
<neuro> 65mm is about 7K
<neuro> 70mm is about 9K
<neuro> that's optimal res with good lenses and no anamorphic production
<mapps> has anyone seen some 4k on these ultra hd tvs
<neuro> and you scan in at 8K if you can to ensure highest possible quality for any required repair work, and to avoid aliasing issues
<daftykins> nah not seen anything 4K yet
<neuro> mapps: if you're interested, read this: http://digitalcontentproducer.com/mil/features/video_real_deal_2/index.html
<neuro> it has technical details of how Technicolor handled the scanning and restoration of Blade Runner so the Final Cut could be made
<mapps> thanks will look
<daftykins> mmm Blade Runner is possibly one of the best looking oldest i've seen
<neuro> remember, it's not necessarily about age
<neuro> when it comes to a digital release, it's all about quality of archival, and how far back up the neg chain you can go
<daftykins> i still think it's a relevant metric for the age of recording equipment available at the time
<neuro> if you can get the original film negatives, you're golden
<mapps> hm Egon from ghostbusters died eh..just had bbc news notification on my phone
<mapps> i cant remember blade runner
<neuro> mapps: why do you think i've been talking about Ghostbusters?
<daftykins> i don't even know which guy that is
<mapps> i did wonder
<mapps> lol
<neuro> daftykins: Spengler
<mapps> glasses guy daftykins
<daftykins> neuro: because you're a film buff!
<neuro> and a great director
<daftykins> ah ok
<mapps> um
<daftykins> that would've been my guess
<mapps> so if i dl 1080p of blade runner itd look decent
<mapps> lets see
<neuro> final cut
<daftykins> it's gorgeous
<neuro> i don't think the director's cut was done at higher than 2K
<daftykins> honestly looks like it was filmed recently
<mapps> final cut?
<mapps> what did u get it in daftykins
<neuro> mapps: jfgi :)
<neuro> daftykins: i saw it in the states when it was released
<daftykins> well we're talking a very long time ago now
<daftykins> but i have a 720p 4.37GB version
<neuro> had already seen it on dvd a fortnight prior after I managed to scrounge a copy of the 5 disc tin box set from a blockbuster in the east end of glasgow :)
<neuro> but seeing it on a big screen from a fresh print ... WOW
<mapps> yea maybe i should get old version and new so i can see the difference side by side
<daftykins> no such chance here, no good cinema
<neuro> mapps: don't bother
<neuro> just get the final cut
<daftykins> don't think i can even claim i've ever been to a decent cinema
<mapps> ok
<neuro> daftykins: Embarcadero Center Cinema ...
<daftykins> honestly if you can't see the difference between DVD and HD, it's specsavers time
<mapps> heh
<neuro> leather seats ... twas lovely
<mapps> imax in printworks isnt bad
<mapps> seats are decent..enough leg room etc
<mapps> bit expensive though being that its imax imo..like 14.50
<diddledan> jfgi?
<diddledan> oh right
<diddledan> just flippin get it
<neuro> just flippin google it :)
<mapps> you been printworks?
<diddledan> aah scoogle
<neuro> mapps: who?
<mapps> standard odeon cinemas arent great though..not much legroom
<mapps> the imax in printworks
<neuro> never heard of it
<neuro> daftykins: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f9vkk6vh3kjc7lw/Screenshot%202014-02-24%2018.27.10.png (upscaled to 1440p :P )
<mapps> hm
<mapps> think il watch the walking dead next
<mapps> this should be the last season..cant kep going on and on
<mapps> *keep
 * neuro doesn't watch it
<neuro> may do at some point
<diddledan> neuro, what video player is that?
<neuro> Plex Home Theater
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> xbmc-plus
<neuro> pulling direct off Plex Media Server on my box in .fr
<neuro> the disk cache is only just keeping up at some points
<neuro> it's a grainy transfer so the bit rate is through the roof
<MartijnVdS> oh is that why they added grain on a lot of blurays ;)
<neuro> well you don't want to smooth out the grain too much or it becomes muddy
<neuro> 36!
<neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3ew673l2eit7b6/Screenshot%202014-02-24%2018.35.41.png
<davmor2> neuro: oh that looks like the start of ghostbusters
<neuro> tis
<neuro> see previous dropbox URL
<davmor2> neuro: nice
<neuro> :)
<daftykins> so many *coin miners coming in #ubuntu with AMD graphics driver installation woes of late
<daftykins> it's really quite amusing
<neuro> davmor2: this is nicerer though: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xviumywogq718ix/Screenshot%202014-02-24%2018.41.57.png
<davmor2> neuro: is that the one with sandra bullock that I can't remember the name of?
<neuro> Gravity, yeah
<diddledan> I just had to google the name too
<davmor2> neuro: I haven't got round to seeing that yet
<neuro> You should, it's awesome
<davmor2> neuro: Yeah it's on our to watch list just not had much time
<neuro> ah oops
<neuro> have a less spoilery screenshot then: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ttwm9fnxh7cllb2/Screenshot%202014-02-24%2018.51.22.png
<neuro> i've watched it about six or seven times now
<neuro> great great great film
<MooDoo> hello all
<daftykins> i found Gravity a yawnfest
<daftykins> though i would happily rewatch it if someone would edit it with a running tally of the amount of damage caused as it progresses
<daftykins> :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: hello and welcome to film 2014
<daftykins> XD
<MooDoo> not watched, can't bear to see sandra bullock in space, it's a travesty
<daftykins> she does have a habit of conveying one emotion in a lot of her work
<davmor2> MooDoo: A lot of people are saying it made up for the Net :D
<MooDoo> I liked the net lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm with you
<davmor2> I also like demolitionman
<daftykins> that was the one where she raged at a CRT in a hospital right?
<daftykins> SANDRA SMAAAAAAASH
<MooDoo> all that era films are great
<MooDoo> then again I liked hackers 2, wargames 2 lol
<davmor2> daftykins: yes
<MooDoo> pah upgrading to ios 7 on the misses ipad / iphone
<daftykins> i'm quite surprised at just how slow those processes are on Apple devices
<MooDoo> this upgrade it taking yonks
<MooDoo> installing ubuntu 14.04 is quicker lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: films like music were awesome in the 60's-90's and copied like hell from the 00's onwards :)
<dogmatic69> I got two blade servers (HP DL360 / DL380) that have been sitting for a couple months, tried them last night and would not turn on :/
<dogmatic69> any ideas what could be going on?
<directhex> you have a blade chassis at home?
<dogmatic69> yep
<dogmatic69> 16U
<directhex> ._.
<daftykins> D:
<davmor2> neuro: talking of ghostbusters I just heard that Harold Ramis is dead :(
<MooDoo> yeah boooooo
<neuro> davmor2: hence the chat about ghostbusters :(
<MooDoo> so sad :(
<dogmatic69> directhex: they are not too bad when you have ear defenders on :D
<davmor2> indeed
<daftykins> dogmatic69: WHATS THAT?!
<daftykins> :)
<dogmatic69> lol
<MooDoo> My sons just whatched ghostbusters for the first time last weekend
<neuro> daftykins: you found Gravity a yawnfest?
<daftykins> i got a 1U dual processor Pentium 4 era Xeon once
<daftykins> neuro: yep
 * neuro despairs :)
<dogmatic69> so, one powers on but does nothing, the other does nothing although there is power. Both seem to have a red "error" light on the front but no idea what it means just yet
<daftykins> time for the manuals!
<daftykins> faulty PSU(s) maybe
<neuro> TO THE BOOKS OF WORDS!
<dogmatic69> daftykins: well they both have redundant power, and doubt 4 PSU's packed up while it was sitting for a couple months
<MooDoo> I've got a 1u poweredge in the garage, just need more ram and two hard drives
<daftykins> MooDoo: as old as mine was?
<MooDoo> not sure what model it is, I'll let you know tomorrow lol
<daftykins> i gave it up 'cause it had 2GB RAM fully populated and the P4 era xeons just weren't worth the 300W it was pulling
<daftykins> plus yeah, you could hear it in every room of the house @_@
<MooDoo> oh mines not that old, quad xeon I think
<daftykins> i played with vmware ESXi for a bit but then recycled it
<dogmatic69> anyone know what a PPM is in relation to a server?
<dogmatic69> "As soon as I unseated and reseated the gold devices (PPM's)it powered up right away"
<daftykins> processor power module
<diddledan> I'm a rare being that enjoys pretty much any half-rate or above movie
<dogmatic69> daftykins: tx
<diddledan> even some that folk class as completely unwatchable I can often enjoy
<dogmatic69> daftykins: would that be the cpu? or something else?
<daftykins> dogmatic69: power regulation board besides the processor socket by the looks
<dogmatic69> found details on removing / replacing but no pics :/
<daftykins> http://h20464.www2.hp.com/resultsCSR.htm?prodSeriesId=327558&MEID=D6203541-9D6C-4F81-8F5A-3A4031DAE5ED
<daftykins> apparently there's a vid when clicking 'Processor Power' on the left
<daftykins> but i just get plugin requests
<MooDoo> anyone have a way to slow down the mouse wheel scroll?
<foobarry> wow. 2nd surviving lancaster is flying over from canada in august for some double action flypasts
<MooDoo> well that was an easy fix lol
<^2fC> lo all =)
<^2fC> Long time now speaks!
<^2fC> diddledan, daftykins, MooDoo... :)
<MooDoo> ^2fC: hello :D
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: my mouse has buttons on it for that
<foobarry> sitting down opening the letters i've received since 2014
<davmor2> MooDoo: did you goto mouse in the settings app and slow it down?
<MooDoo> davmor2: no options for the scroll wheel, turns out as it's a wireless usb, pulling it out and putting it back in fixes it
<davmor2> MooDoo: haha
<foobarry> my wifes one slows down the mouse movement if you hold down buttons L and R
<foobarry> does kindle open .mobi books?
<davmor2> foobarry: I don't know look at the specs sheet
<foobarry> seems to. although i'm confused about sending to a kindle.com email addres vs free.kindle.com
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... now speaking from new pooter... only settings that didn't transfer was for Pidin. Anyone know where Pidgin keeps it's settings? [old disk attached on SATA2 waiting to be used as a backup ;)
<directhex> ~/.purple
<SuperEngineer> cheers directhex
<SuperEngineer> wee! it works ;)
<SuperEngineer> cheers again directhex - that was puzzling me
<dogmatic69> well, been checking more and the DL380 that does nothing actually all the fans power up for a sec and then die again
<dogmatic69> so its like the whole things gets power and then cuts out
<shauno> sounds like how they panic when they can't sense the cpu fan
<diddledan> why are all the H's on my screen suddenly looking like they're i's
<ali1234> corrupted font cache
<ali1234> common on intel and amd graphics, oh and nouveau
<diddledan> aah probably due to the issue I've been getting intermittently with intel on trusty hanging for a few moments
<ali1234> yeah
<directhex> dogmatic69, reset the CMOS battery?
<dogmatic69> directhex: as in just pop it out and in again?
<directhex> yeah
<dogmatic69> cool, will try
<mapps> http://www.ip2location.com/developers/debian-package - how do you actually run it? it just mentions running a test
<mapps> anyone
<shauno> short version, you don't
<mapps> shauno, what do you mean
<shauno> it's a library, not a standalone tool.  so it's intended to provide that functionality to other programs
<mapps> ah
<mapps> so i cant run it from the command line and use it in say a bash script
<shauno> not without writing something that uses that library, no
<mapps> thanks
<mapps> now here's a questionb..im a bit confused by i asked yesterday and upstart /etc/init.d etc mentioned - what should i lookup for how to make an app start at boot?
<shauno> you might want to look at geoip-bin; it uses a different database (maxmind's, iirc), but it's ready to use
<MartijnVdS> for now, create an upstart job (/etc/init/blah.conf)
<MartijnVdS> but be prepared to rewrite to a systemd thingy for the next LTS (16.04)
<MartijnVdS> (IN 2016!))
<mapps> a .conf file MartijnVdS  not a script? so just google ubuntu upstart?:P
<MartijnVdS> mapps: just look for the upstart manual, it's easy :)
<MartijnVdS> mapps: also, check the existing .conf  files
<mapps> yes
<mapps> thanks :)
<mapps> yea ive got that on atm shauno  was just looking at geoiplookup
<dogmatic69> yey, got one back online. The one that was almost working... damn riser was loose
<mapps> modselektor is so good
<diddledan> dogmatic69, dang
<diddledan> dogmatic69, I had a similar issue with a desktop mobo I bought a few years ago - had a damned push-button cmos reset switch that was supposed to poke out the IO shield at the back of the case. the IO shield or my case were the wrong shape so the button was permanently depressed causing zero powerup
<dogmatic69> diddledan: sounds like much head in desk after figuring that one out
<diddledan> yes, yes it was :-D
<dogmatic69> anyone know ddwrt? trying to install some packages but have this http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1476104042
<ali1234> lol white russian
<ali1234> that's openwrt from like 2006
<dogmatic69> cant use openwrt :/
<dogmatic69> my router is too new apparently
<dogmatic69> Netgear WNDR3700 V4
<mapps> aid like to use openwrt/ddwrt but ive got a rubbish thomson 780wl (o2 wirelessbox)
<mapps> not keen on having a seperate modem/router setup...and couldnt see any dd/openwrt compatible modem/router combos?
<ali1234> no modems have open source baseband drivers
<ali1234> the only routers that fully support openwrt are ones that need an external modem
<mapps> yea
<mapps> so maybe il have to give in an get a router and modem seperate
<shauno> might be the first time I've seen someone actually prefer a combo
<mapps> just for ease basically lol
<mapps> and if i buy a new modem then what about when i get ftc
<mapps> which they say coming soon..last year and this year
<shauno> surely you'd have the same problem with a combo?
<mapps> well
<shauno> just instead of replacing the modem, you'd be replacing the whole thing
<mapps> yea
<mapps> true
<mapps> tbh i dont know what adsl modem to get..all i know is ive got rubbish adsl :) 6mbit
<shauno> I've got a whole mess of a setup; two routers hanging off one modem
<mapps> howcome
<dogmatic69> I have that netgear connected to VM box for internet
<dogmatic69> no big deal really, both behind the couch
<shauno> I've got a cisco box for messing with, and then an apple router because the cisco box is *slow*
<dogmatic69> Nothing like a slight hint of burning...
<dogmatic69> hope that is just dust...
<shauno> well pants.  the dns unblocker I was using have shut down, so now I have to watch netflix-ireland
<mapps> you cant watch normal netflix?!
<shauno> define normal?
<ali1234> what is a dns unblocker??
<shauno> some magic that confuses netflix's geoip stuff
<mapps> i wondered that
<mapps> ah
<mapps> cant u just use some diff ns?
<mapps> anyway gym time for me :D
<mapps> waited till now so its not too busy ;]
<lazarus_> im trying to boot an iso using this guide http://www.wikihow.com/Boot-an-Ubuntu-ISO-from-Your-Hard-Drive however my iso isnt located on /dev/sda its on /dev/sdb and grub works with (hd0,1) and so on so what would i put in order for grub to boot from sdb  rather than sda
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-25
<michael_> is this working?
<diddledan> michael_, nope :-p
<michael_> ha ok
<daftykins> diddledan: he left :(
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> he has that effect on people i guess
<daftykins> right, bed for me! nn mr. mapps :)
<mapps> this early
<mapps> pah!
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> did I do something wrong?
<mapps> caused poor old michael_ to leave
<mapps> :P
<diddledan> well I suffixed it with a pokie-out tongue, what more do you want?!
<mapps> anyone used mod_geoip in apache?
<mapps> grmpfh cant get modgeoip to work right
<diddledan> sleep is for whimps
<Azelphur> I'm watching the mtgox ship sink
<Azelphur> \o/
<diddledan> is it bad?
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> people are selling mt. gox debt for 0.15% of its value
<diddledan> wow
<Azelphur> sorry, 15%
<diddledan> what's happened?
<Azelphur> a matter of hours ago it was 25%
<Azelphur> they stopped bitcoin withdrawals, closed their twitter account, shut down offices, fired customer service employees, quit the bitcoin foundation, and now their website is gone too
<Azelphur> looks like they are taking the money and running, basically
<diddledan> oh bugger
<MartijnVdS> good thing there are alternatives
<Azelphur> rumors of insolvency are flying, and gradually gaining evidence
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> causing a major crash though
<mapps> see this is the thing with all thois bitcoin with it being unregiulated largely there's been quite a lot of these things start up work for a bit..then suddenly close and dissapear
<mapps> sometimes theyve been 'hacked' so they say..who can prove it? like Silk road 2.0 was hacked resulting in loss of loads of btc
<mapps> wasnt mt gox the biggest btc exchange at one point? so it wasnt hacked ? they just shut up shop?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: They blame their current downtime on a mis-feature (bug?) in the bitcoin protocol
<MartijnVdS> but then it stayed down
<mapps> yea
<MartijnVdS> so people think the owners took the money and ran
<mapps> they stopped witjdrawls a month ago
<mapps> yea
<MartijnVdS> if there was any left
<mapps> they didnt suffer any hack or anything did they?
<MartijnVdS> unknown
<mapps> why wouldnt there be MartijnVdS  if they werent hacked
<mapps> they were the biggest exchange?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: because of that "transaction malleability" bug
<mapps> is it true?
<mapps> or was it just a lie they said tho
<MartijnVdS> if they use bad software (and they tend to -- from past experience), they could have spent more of their money than intended
<MooDoo> morning all
 * jussi rubs eyes and grunts to the channel
 * MooDoo grunts back, been awake since 4am :(
<mapps> morning MooDoo / jussi
<jussi> MooDoo: I had a similar experience, thanks to a non sleeping child.
<mapps> hm
<jussi> morning mapps
<mapps> mod_geoip returning my IP contry_code as EU
<mapps> pfft
<mapps> i was hoping for UK/GB
<MooDoo> jussi: my son wnt to the loo and then got into our bed :(
<diddledan> MooDoo, lightweight - I've been awake since.. sunday
<diddledan> nothing light a decent drop of sleep deprivation to give you a buzz
<jussi> diddledan: isnt today your sleep day?  :P
<mapps> ive just been watching tv all night
<mapps> one more thing to watch then sleep..and not judge judy
<mapps> :)
<jussi> btw, have we any kubuntu peoples here?
<mapps> not i..used to use kubuntu but now xubuntu
<mapps> :D
<diddledan> mapps, no, don't do it. stay awake!
<jussi> Just that the kubuntu council (namely me) is selling Kubuntu polo shirts if someone is interested....
<mapps> ah youre kubuntu council cool
<jussi> https://holvi.com/shop/Kubuntu/
<MooDoo> nice shirts :D
<jussi> MooDoo: :)
<MooDoo> jussi: come see me when there is no K on it ;)
<jussi> MooDoo: hehe, go talk to canonical, they sell that merchandise.
<MooDoo> :) just teasin :D
<jussi> hrm, anyone seen this before? http://www.blackphone.ch/
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> jussi: yes I have :) did't know it was out yet :)
<kaushal> Hi
<MooDoo> hello kaushal
<jussi> MooDoo: ahh, interesting.
<kaushal> Can someone please help me understand the difference between tailf and tail -f?
<MooDoo> jussi: phil zimmerman is part of it
<kaushal> MooDoo: Hello
<jussi> MooDoo: who is phil zimmerman?
<kaushal> I am really not able to understand
<MooDoo> kaushal: It is similar to tail -f but does not  access  the  file when  it  is not growing.
<kaushal> MooDoo: not sure still i understand
<kaushal> MooDoo: any examples?
<MooDoo> tail -f monitors the file all the time, looks for changes them displays them.
<MooDoo> tailf only reports the changes when they happen otherwise it leaves the file alone.
<MooDoo> man tailf from the command line :d
<kaushal> MooDoo: so typically i should be using tail -f instead of tailf?
<diddledan> hah "the heat" movie is fun
<MooDoo> kaushal: I use tail -f never considered using tailf before
<diddledan> wait, there's a tailf command?!
<diddledan> that's far too sensible
<jussi> diddledan: *zing*
<MooDoo> diddledan: shhhh but I didn't know either, I just man tailf 'd it ;)
<diddledan> I need to put that into a script we use at work
<diddledan> much friendlier to an ssd I guess as a byproduct
<diddledan> hmm, doesn't look like os x has it available
<diddledan> not so much an issue for me now I'm back in buntuland but a colleague uses a mac
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<ali1234> reddit sucks :/
<ali1234> they only upvote me when i post really retarded things
<foobarry> because they are kids
<foobarry> eternal september
<ali1234> no, you're thinking of facebook
<ali1234> reddit upvotes bad jokes and left-wing propaganda
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: at least it's not hackernews
<ali1234> because they are all 18-30 and unemployed
<foobarry> oh i didn't sub to those subreddits when i used it
<ali1234> you mean you just read the default subs?
<foobarry> i completely stopped reading it, not because i didn't enkoy it, but because it was a time sink
<foobarry> and fed bad emotions
<foobarry> no i read tech ones and UK ones
<foobarry> not any defaults after the first month
<foobarry> or any with memes
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> Any success on your file server/nas thing MooDoo ?
<ali1234> when i started reading it i didn't care that dumb comments always went to the top
<ali1234> but when it's my dumb comment somehow it's worse
<diplo> I'm a very limited reddit user, look at /r/netsec/ and a few sys admin type ones and that's about it
<foobarry> i thought british problems was funny for a week
<foobarry> then i realised its worse than slashdot for recycled "jokes"
<MooDoo> don't really read it myself
<foobarry> i read it when i was feeding baby
<foobarry> in the night shifts
<ali1234> hmm... i totally missed this... Jolla released the SDK for their Other Half system
<ali1234> you get i2c and an interrupt
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Chocolate-Covered Peanuts Day! :-D
<MooDoo> hello JamesTait
<JamesTait> Actually, it seems to be Allergenic Foods Day - the other thing listed for today is Clam Chowder Day.
<ali1234> allergenic fools?
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> hello laura
<czajkowski> ello hows things
<MooDoo> oooo that sounded formal lo
<MooDoo> czajkowski: up since 4 so tired, but ok :) you?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: hullo
<czajkowski> not bad looking out at the rain and wondering how I'm gonna pop out for a dog walk
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> czajkowski: wrap up warm with a cag on :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: how are you?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: not bad, and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: tired, but ok :D
 * brobostigon gets MooDoo more coffee :)
<DJones> Is it right that Ubuntu (from the phones perspective) is "Deep down, Ubuntu is based on Android, but Canonical has spent the last year replacing Android's innards with its own technology"
<MooDoo> Thought ubuntu touch was ubuntu to be honest
<DJones> So did I
<DJones> Thats a comment in a review on cnet.com
<popey> yeah, i saw that too
<popey> i think that's a reporter paraphrasing
<popey> "deep down" (meaning kernel) "is based on Android" (AOSP)
<popey> which is true.
<DJones> I think they'd have been better describing it the reverse way though, deep down, android and ubuntu are based on linux
<ali1234> that's pretty much backwards
<ali1234> that's what reporters do
<ali1234> that's not really true at all
<ali1234> which part of AOSP is it based on?
<BigRedS> I thought Ubuntu Touch was essentially Android with Canonical's own display bits and bobs
<DJones> Was just trying to get an idea of what the hardware specs for the Ubuntu phones will be & how they'll compare to the Galaxy S5/Nexus 5
<popey> BigRedS: define android
<ali1234> that also isn't true. ubuntu and android are two things you can run on linux that have almost nothing at all in common beyond that
<popey> BigRedS: for many "android" means the android bsp plus dalvik/dart plus a load of classes
<popey> we don't ship the vast majority of that
<ali1234> android is surface flinger, dalvik, rild, and google's proprietary apps
<popey> and of that list we use rild
<BigRedS> ah right
<foobarry> i never tried the android multi window, is it available?
<ali1234> most people have no idea what rild even is
<foobarry> i.e. me
<ali1234> rild is a system service that provides an abstraction of the phone hardware
<BigRedS> as in the hardware of the system, or just the GSMy bits?
<ali1234> the GSMy bits
<ali1234> not that any phone uses GSM these days
<ali1234> 3 will shut down your account if your phone can't do 3G
<MartijnVdS> Radio Interface L.... Daemon?
<foobarry> ?
<BigRedS> surely 3G coverage isn't good enough to do that?
<ali1234> GSM = 1G devices that could only do internet at 9600 bps using accoustic modulation and 2G GPRS devices
<ali1234> BigRedS: 3 has no 2G network, they have to pay other companies if you use 2G on your 3 account
<BigRedS> Ah, so it's just/mostly 3 doing that?
<ali1234> so if your phone *only* does 2G you are never actually using their network, and costing them loads of money
<ali1234> afaik, yes
<BigRedS> ah, that sounds more reasonable :)
<dwatkins_> is 4G available in many places [in the UK] yet?
<ali1234> yes, if you live in london
<MartijnVdS> or birmingham, liverpool, manchester, bristol/cardiff
<dwatkins_> I know someone in Reading who insists he's on 5G, I'm not sure that's even been developed yet.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins_: "Well MY dad is on 6G!"
<ali1234> if you live in manchester don't expect it to work more than half a mile outside the city centre
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: well quite :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I live on the 7th floor, I get 1 bar of 4G from a transmitter ~15km away. And it doesn't handoff to 2G properly when there's a call (because it expects the 2G base station to be nearer to it, or something) :|
<ali1234> well the answer is clear
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: wait another month for the network to be extended?
<dwatkins> I used to live amongst many many stone buildings, I had to get a microcell to be able to consistently use my mobile (on Vodafone at the time)
<ali1234> no i was going to say get a phone that doesn't do 4G since they're a waste of money anyway
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but this phone is only 4 months old, it's a nexus 5
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: which is *cheap* by 4G phone standards, too
<dwatkins> I can stream radio stations on my 3G phone, I don't need anything faster than that
 * dwatkins is aware he sounds like a grumpy old man
<ali1234> that's ridiculous. buy a radio
<dwatkins> the stuff I like to listen to isn't available via DAB
<foobarry> yesterday i got to work and the pillow crease was still on my face. i am old
<foobarry> as a young man that disappeared in minutes
<popey> http://www.spritzinc.com/ thats interesting
<foobarry> adding dedrm to calibre on linux is a massive pain if your books are not on a real life kindle
<foobarry> the kindle for pc route is fraight with problems
<foobarry> dunno why there isn't an easier way than wine yet
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> moring davmor2
<MooDoo> you little boat you ;) lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: What?
<MooDoo> davmor2: I said moring instead of morning.
<MooDoo> i'm in a bad mood, so doing what little i can to cheer myself up
<davmor2> ah
<davmor2> MooDoo: ah allow me to slap you out of it.
<diddledan> I accidentally bought a load of pibits
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: piwhats?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes by all means do so
<diddledan> bits
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yes but what are they?
<MooDoo> https://github.com/richardghirst/PiBits
<MooDoo> lol or just bits of addons for the raspberry pi
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: you don't *buy* lots of copies of a github project usually, do you? ;)
<MartijnVdS> clone them, sure
<MartijnVdS> but buying?
<diddledan> besides the adafruit gps module I already got, I took delivery this morning of 2x4GB SD cards, 2xAdafruit Pi T-Cobblers, 2xRPis a USB-to-ttl cable, a breadboard wire pack and 2x3xbreadboards (1x half-sized, and 1x quarter-sized)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: cool :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: yes but I just googled and put in the first link I found, bit hasty in hind sight lol
<diddledan> I guess I need to brush-up on my soldering skillz
<foobarry> hmm. iscsi on a 10GB nic. hdparm speeds of a vm are 250MB/sec. add another 10GB nic to the mix...new hdparm 180MB/s
<foobarry> ah. one vmk had 1500 mtu. fix that and now 230MB/s
<foobarry> tbh i would expect nearer 1GB/s
<daftykins> foobarry: modifying the MTU to what?
<foobarry> 9000
<daftykins> would the adapter/OS not be bright enough to auto switch to jumbo frames or the like?
<foobarry> not on vsphere you need to set it .
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> heh, i was xbox gaming with friends as usual last night, but one had moved house up in England (Uni student) but he was getting NAT issues
<daftykins> UPnP was on, so that didn't make any sense - ending up spotting this little Linksys had firmware from ~2006 whereas the latest available was from 2013 :D
<daftykins> i was on his machine over teamviewer then just updated the firmware - found it odd i could see the entire progress bar go whilst still connected
<daftykins> he rejoined and everything worked :D
<foobarry> had similar experience when i moved into house
<foobarry> previous owner said broadband was flaky
<davmor2> MooDoo: if it helps https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos?pid=5981724436439944274&oid=104244164525559506101
<foobarry> left the adsl modem/router behind
<foobarry> he was right, but updated the firmware and it fixed the prob
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> it's great when things are that straightforward
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's black dude
<davmor2> MooDoo: it should be some seals oinking
<MooDoo> lol no I can't see it chap, but it made me smile any way :D
<daftykins> maybe they're black seals in the dark of a moonless night
<MooDoo> it made me smile :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: like it :D
<daftykins> is it odd that with a friends university's redhat server he's being advised to run 'sudo su' to switch to root 0o
<davmor2> Last night we did some shoping at sainsbury's and I clock and 80's anthems 5cd set in the bargain bin.  You know it's a good selection when it start with "It takes Two" and cd 5 starts with "Relax" :)
<MooDoo> daftykins: seems legit, he might be logged in as a non root user and they use sudo to allow students to go to root
<Laney> sudo -i
<daftykins> MooDoo: yep but sudo su is bad practice in ubuntu land
<daftykins> Laney: yeah -s and -i can't be used as his user has no rights to execute /bin/bash apparently
<MooDoo> daftykins: ubuntu != redhat :p
<daftykins> yeah i know
<daftykins> this is why i'm asking
<foobarry> sudo su - is equivalent to sudo -i more or less tho
<MooDoo> sorry I'm just being awkward :)
 * daftykins chases MooDoo with a holepunch
<MooDoo> no no giggle giggle ;)
<MooDoo> ok I didn't say that
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's a matter of public record that you did say it :P
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> the record now shows MooDoo went into schoolgirl mode for a moment
<MooDoo> blush
<davmor2> daftykins: that god you added mode to that sentence I was two 9's into calling the police ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: behave sir!
<daftykins> davmor2: who are you, diddledan!?
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> :D
<davmor2> http://vimeo.com/58200103 this just put a smile on my face so I though I would share it :)
<daftykins> :D
<davmor2> and these guys really rock http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS826PwLHdQ&list=RDr7WEIbj93uY
<MooDoo> the piano guys are good as well
<daftykins> i always enjoy the floppy disk based ones
<daftykins> well, drive
<davmor2> bigcalm: see if this would meet with your high standards of compilation picking http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Ultimate-Collection-80s-Anthems/dp/B00E7TP36G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393333193&sr=8-1&keywords=80%27s+anthems
<awilkins> I found sudo for each command very useful when I had to pin down what a sysadmin had done to mess up my dev infrastructure box
<awilkins> Because it logs them all
<daftykins> awilkins: what did it highlight?
<davmor2> daftykins: which dev does what, with what command and when
<awilkins> daftykins, I don't recall exactly but I found some file system commands about where certain symlinks had been placed I think
<awilkins> Doing manual installs of packaged things, tch.
<daftykins> ;/
<davmor2> Tank, Fly, Boss walk, Jam nitty gritty
<foobarry> stab
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: You're listening to the boy from the big bad city?
<MooDoo> davmor2: I was born in a town in the great uk, from a baby to a boy to a man today!
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: and it's Jam hot
<davmor2> foobarry: why no love?  Shame on you ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: what's love?
<MooDoo> oh come on guys, i gave you a bone then
<davmor2> MooDoo: got to do with it
<MooDoo> davmor2: no slap!
<MooDoo> davmor2: baby don't hurt me don't hurt me no more lol
<MooDoo> ooo am I feeling brave and upgrade my LTS server to trusy?
<foobarry> no
<MooDoo> lol laptop was fine ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you're a madman I tell you MAD!!!!
<MooDoo> davmor2: what till 4pm, I'm going to try and register the domain im2.sexy so I can have subdomains called myshirt and milan ;) lol ha ha ha ha ha
<davmor2> MooDoo, MartijnVdS: "Heart" and I'll give you a clue of hairdresser gang :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: WTF!
<davmor2> MooDoo: Died in your arms tonight by the cutting crew.  Song starts "Heart!" then bursts into Could of died in your arms tonight :)
<foobarry> davmor2 = cheesemonger
<MooDoo> davmor2: I was looking at the Heart discography lo9l
<davmor2> MooDoo: I like your right said idea.  But I think you need to add it hurts
<davmor2> MooDoo: Arua-bori-alis come in view-e-eww
<MartijnVdS> aurora*
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: ta it didn't look right but it sounded right :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I bet you know the song too :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: you ran so far away? :)
<MartijnVdS> (thank you, Vice City soundtrack)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I ran flock of seagulls :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I'm just grabbing lines from the songs on this 80's Anthems bargain bin 5 cd collection that I got I'm loving it :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: 8-)
<MooDoo> davmor2: best of the 80's I got the other day :D
<davmor2> MartijnVdS, MooDoo: http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Ultimate-Collection-80s-Anthems/dp/B00E7TP36G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393333193&sr=8-1&keywords=80%27s+anthems but I got it at 4.99 from the local supermarket :)  I can't fault the music :)
<foobarry> how do i work out theoetical performance of a 2tb lun on a 24 disk RAID6 array 10k disks?
<davmor2> foobarry: pen paper and a lot of math?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: have you seen my "So 80s it hurts" Spotify playlist? ;)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I spent a day listening to it and other than the odd foreign track that made no sense to me it was pretty cool :)
<MooDoo> who was asking about ubuntu on the phones earlier?
<MooDoo> well whoever it was check this - http://mhall119.com/2014/02/there-is-no-touch-only-ubuntu/
<DJones> MooDoo: Probably me
<foobarry> is there a ubuntu package that rolls up most developer tools? g++ gcc make etc
<foobarry> build-*
<foobarry> ?
<shauno> build-essential is usually a good start
<foobarry> thats the one ta
<ali1234> i just do apt-get build-dep
<MartijnVdS> I just have pbuilder ;)
<foobarry> anyone used iometer?
<ali1234> yeah i don't really like waiting half an hour to build every tiny program
<diddledan> foobarry, build-essential
<diddledan> aah shauno beat me
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: beatings are against the CoC
<diddledan> shauno, that isn't an order!
<shauno> :(
<diddledan> right, so midday sunday. through to nowish. I've only been awake 50hours
<popey> http://sarvagyavaish.github.io/FlappyBirdRL/
<diddledan> wow, it's time to stop working already
<daftykins> 30 minutes past!
<daftykins> diddledan: so you really worked today!?
<diddledan> of course
<diddledan> I might have investigated my pibits too, but that's by-the-by :P
<mapps> good evening
<daftykins> heya
<mapps> sup
<daftykins> not much here mapps, quiet one today
<daftykins> yourself?
<mapps> just going to continue to look at mod_geoip got it working but its giving my ips country code as EU
<daftykins> hrmm
<mapps> odd eh
<mapps> can u try it for me?
<mapps> oh strange
<mapps> now it says GB
<mapps> http://94.193.78.219/eetest/test.php
<mapps> Country Code: GB
<mapps> Country Code 3:
<mapps> Country Name: United Kingdom
<daftykins> GG :)
<bigcalm> You need to tidy up your array indexes ;)
<mapps> ya
<mapps> those array keys dont exist hey..il remove them
<mapps> this was a test:P
<mapps> so i can use mod_geoip to redirect/restrict access based on country code using RewriteEngine
<mapps> :D
<bigcalm> Great success
<mapps> no real need for it mind:P
<DJones> ooh, nice, Amazon have brought back the laptop I was originally thinking of getting and its Â£200 cheaper than the model with 16Gb memory and an 8gb ssd
<mapps> nice what cpu?
<DJones> mapps: i7-4700MQ, 1TB hdd, 8GB ram
<DJones> 1920x1080 display
<DJones> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Y510p-15-6-inch-Notebook-Processor/dp/B00FSBFBD2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393351633&sr=8-1&keywords=y510p
<mapps> nice  ive got an i5 8gb ram
<mapps> tought you said 16gb ram
<mapps> ooh lenovo never had a lenovo laptop
<guinness6554> Hi. I am trying to port the ubuntu touch for nexus 5.  I know that there are people who already dealing with I just wanna do it 4 fun and I am a bit stacked. Is there anybody who could help me a bit?
<DJones> Can get it with 16Gb with 8GB ssd as well as the 1TB hdd, but don't see the point of that ssd
<mapps> whats the problem guinness6554  - i was thinking about trying it with my nexus7 today as it happens
<DJones> guinness6554: Probably a good place to ask that would be in #ubuntu-touch I think most of the people with experience will be in that channel
<guinness6554> thanks
<DJones> mapps: Just adding the extra 8gb ram + small ssd adds Â£200 to the price
<mapps> ahh
<DJones> What would be the point of such a small SSD
<DJones> INfo just says Up to 24GB of SSD cache, is there any benefit to having that
<bigcalm> OS in the SSD?
<bigcalm> Data in the HDD?
<daftykins> DJones: they're operated by intel chipsets under Windows as transparent cache drives
<daftykins> so the OS only sees the mechanical volume, but has its' IO intelligently cached
<DJones> daftykins: Thanks, so not actually usable for storage/install
<daftykins> oh they definitely can be
<daftykins> given the small footprint of Linux distros most people just shoehorn them onto there then symlink other things off to the mechanical to save space
<DJones> For dual boot, do you think it would make any significant difference though
<daftykins> although actually it tends to depend, basically advertising the 8GB is a hallmark (often) of manufacturers trying to show off meeting the intel ultrabook specification
<daftykins> lately i've been seeing systems which are actually SSHD's - solid state hybrid drives
<daftykins> so they have the 8+GB NAND built-in and handle the cache internally, transparent to the OS
<DJones> Day to day ue will just be Office apps, accounts package, email, web etc on windows, evening would be Ubuntu with games etc
<DJones> s/ue/use/
<daftykins> umm dualboot? depends how you'd partition i guess
<daftykins> and whether it's one of the disks i mention
<daftykins> lets see if i can remember which it is
<DJones> daftykins: This is the machine with the 8gb ssd http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Y510p-15-6-inch-Notebook-Processor/dp/B00FSBFBD2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393351633&sr=8-1&keywords=y510p
<daftykins> mmm, lots of different configurations possible so can't really nail down the exact drive spec
<DJones> I think you're probably right about the drive being a hybred drive though, although the SSD could be fitted instead of the DVD drive
<daftykins> yeah i see there's a notebookreview.com thread talking about that model
<daftykins> DJones: http://hdd.userbenchmark.com/Seagate-Laptop-Thin-SSHD-500GB/Rating/1803&tab=Benchmarks
<daftykins> weird i can't find an english product info page at seagate
<directhex> sshd is all the rage
<directhex> all steamos boxes seem to use them
<daftykins> cheapest implementation i guess
<directhex> only usable implementation
<directhex> there's a WD sshd which is implemented by baboons
<DJones> Ahh
<DJones> The Y510P is equipped with a 1 TB HDD along with a 24 GB SSD. The small SSD houses the operating system allowing for overall faster performance and quicker boot-up speeds. Unfortunately with such a small SSD users wonât be able to experience the same performance and load times for most programs, but the 1TB HDD offers plenty of memory for games, media and additional programs
<daftykins> yeah i saw that one :)
<daftykins> nasty driver
<daftykins> DJones: hrmm i don't think i believe that!
<directhex> DJones, msata!
<DJones> The Â£800 version still looks a good buy
<daftykins> some comments say that model has M.2
<mapps> does anyone know if its possible to make openvpn also use an http proxy ..i dont want to connect to openvpn through a proxy but i want it to use a proxy for web
<mapps> if that makes sense
<neuro> mapps: openvpn isn't a proxy
<kvarley> I'm being a bit of a noob. I've restricted access to ssh via sshd_config for the "minions" group but I now can't login myself via SSH. I used to previously key login. Is it possible to have key login working for all users and to restrict users of the "minions" group but not for me?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: care to try and win $1000 https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/438385789404467200  runs on Ubuntu :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: hello muppet
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Startrekkin' across the universe......
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: The Firm?
<czajkowski> davmor2: hello sunshine
<davmor2> czajkowski: Ow's life treating you
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: yeap
<czajkowski> davmor2: not bad thanks
<czajkowski> busy week and prepping for march madness and a trip to NYC
<czajkowski> davmor2: you wer ebusy last week good sprint?
<davmor2> czajkowski: hectic not sure about goos
<davmor2> good even
<davmor2> czajkowski: it was good to meet up with the team and get some feedback
<mapps> ya i know neuro
<mapps> but i wantd to make wbe traffic use a proxy make sense?
<czajkowski> davmor2: and still work at the same pace :p
<davmor2> czajkowski: What you mean home yes :P
<moreati> davmor2: I've got Star Trekin' stuck in mind head now, damn you
<davmor2> moreati: you're welcome
<mapps> whenever i see these er abroad/benidorm er - it's always horrid chav women and men
<mapps> anyone here been to Benidorm or any of these other popular places? if it's lkike the impression i get i dont ever want to go!
<jussi> what the heck is benidorm ?
<mapps> some place in spain that seems to be super popular with brits
<jussi> oh, like ibiza?
<mapps> everytme i see it on tv it's just fat old men and women lounging about drinking
<mapps> hmm kinda..but cheaper..Ibiza is like 10euros a drink this is like 1 euro kinda
<jussi> yeah, those tourist places are the pits...
<mapps> yea
<mapps> like they only go to sit in the sun all day and drink drink drink..
<mapps> Prague is touristy..but not to the same extent?
<mapps> its not just sun and drinking and slobs everywhere
<shauno> gotta admit, I don't like finding brits on holiday :/  there was a stag party staying at the same hotel last time I travelled.  lovely.
<jussi> My ideal holiday doesnt include a lot of people
<mapps> heh
<jussi> last year was awesome. we took a boat and explored some of the finnish lakeland
<mapps> nice
<mapps> Id like to go somewhere like easter island
<MartijnVdS> during christmas
<MartijnVdS> and then send "Happy Easter" cards to your family back home
<jussi> yeah, that would be interesting
<mapps> :)
<jussi> Id like to go to one of those little islands off africa that have only the basic accomodation, no electricity, no running water, just silence. and nature.
<mapps> yea ive looked on wiki at some places with like 50 people
<mapps> jussi,  what's the average persons english like in Finland? good i guess|?
<jussi> mapps: the younger generation excellent. older people, not so much
<jussi> the finnish lakelands are really nice
<mapps> like a lot of european places..when you say older like 50+?
<jussi> 40+
<mapps> id like to go to Slovakia too
<mapps> and Budapest
<jussi> Ive been to budapest
<mapps> enjoyed it|
<mapps> ?
<shauno> budapest was neat, but way too hot.  their money boggles my mind though
<MartijnVdS> I've been to Prague, hated it.
<shauno> really?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: nobody speaks a language I understand, buildings are all black from years of neglect
<mapps> he missed the redlight too much
<mapps> :D
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> i didnt see all these black buildings
<MartijnVdS> shauno: shady crap salesmen *everywhere*, even worse than Rome
<mapps> and i agree with the 'nobody speaks alanguage' --- the english over there is VERY VERY poor
<mapps> even the younger generation..my friend lives in Nymburk 1hr from Prague and we met up with him and his friends (19-mid 20s) and most of them barely understood me
<shauno> I've not had a problem with the language so much
<mapps> the Dutch folk understood everything I said :)
<MartijnVdS> mapps: maybe they just went "Didn't understand a word. Better put more beer in him."
<shauno> but yeah, 'dodgy crap salesmen' are getting worse, everywhere
<mapps> lol
<MartijnVdS> haven't seen them in Amsterdam yet :)
<mapps> na it was his friends they basically just understood a little
<mapps> MartijnVdS,  i have!
<shauno> I had someone in bratislava trying to sell me wooden giraffes at christmas.  unfortunately I was quite tipsy and may have laughed quite loudly
<MartijnVdS> mapps: the shady guys who sell sunglasses/fake rolexes/etc.?
<mapps> black guy walking around the sports cafe trying to sell drugs lol
<mapps> ooh no
<mapps> and romanians offering people drugs at night
<mapps> but not fake rolexes etc
<MartijnVdS> the only time I've ever been offered drugs was in Berlin 8-)
<shauno> last time I noticed them, handbags was the big thing
<mapps> had the same in Prague -- walking back at 4am some guy bugging me to buy coke..first off a) i dont want it secondly b) it's clearly not even drugs
<shauno> only time I really noticed drugs is when I went on a wander with a friend from the states.  he looks .. well, like a sociology student
<shauno> we got approached *everywhere*
<MartijnVdS> "looks like a sociology student"?
<MartijnVdS> do those look any different from other people/
<shauno> yes
<MartijnVdS> .. how?
<shauno> when he left for college he looked like a choirboy.  by time he got here, he had dreads
<shauno> which just look messy when you're naturally blonde
<MartijnVdS> ah yes, the dreads
<shauno> it was interesting though, going to the same places as two lads instead of a 'young couple', and coming away with a completely different view on the place
<directhex> i've only been offered sex once when strolling through town. admittedly it was the red light district in hamburg
<mapps> there were some nice girls in redlight in Holland
<shauno> heh, we found that in barcelona too
<mapps> none are locals tho
<directhex> hamburg is the only city i've been to that sells souvenir tat at the airport for the red light district
<shauno> I think eventually I have to get a drivers' licence.  staying in a different city each time is getting a bit blah
<ilinux> Hi
<shauno> evening
<brobostigon> if anyone is watching QI, you might notice stephen fry has a pebble smartwatch,
<daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqKJgrKfCfg - rather nice tune if anyone has the time
<ilinux> hi
<daftykins> hi
<ilinux> daftykins: Hi, testing weechat so popping in/out
<daftykins> d'aww, couldn't you restrict it to one channel :P
<daftykins> if testing
<ilinux> daftykins: just want to see how easy it is to alt between servers and chatrooms.
<shauno> that shouldn't involve cycling?
 * daftykins cycles around the channel
<shauno> for some reason, I pictuer a unicycle
<daftykins> i was thinking that!
<shauno> and the tune was very kate bush.  I get a few of you confused, and kept expecting it to errupt into dubstep
<daftykins> oh lawd i can't stand that noise
<ilinux> shauno: shouldn't that be a unixcycle?
<daftykins> oh dear.
<shauno> nope.  gnu's not unixcycle
<ilinux> that'd be a gnunicycle surely
<shauno> not sure I'd trust a gnu unicycle.  it'd be 25 years before it can stand on its own
<ilinux> lol
<ilinux> not if it had any gnew sense
<maps|wrk> hai
<maps|wrk> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-26
<diddledan> my gps unit seems to be having issue getting a fix
<diddledan> the RMC and GGA timestamps are pretty accurate, though but they appear to be the only things it's actually sensing
<diddledan> omg, it's actually getting somewhere
<diddledan> got five signals responding
<diddledan> three
<diddledan> hmmm
<diddledan> that's better, I've oriented the unit a bit differently now
<diddledan> AND I'm FIXED
<diddledan> ok, I'm at Long 1.123546W and Lat 51.267931N
 * diddledan needs a map to verify it
<MartijnVdS> http://zachholman.com/posts/only-90s-developers/
<mapps> good morning MartijnVdS
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> morning mate
<MooDoo> lots on here this early :)
<jussi> o/
<mapps> im going to sleep soon..i work nights
<mapps> jussi prob been up for ages:D is finland +2?
<MooDoo> nn :)
<jussi> mapps: yup
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> morning MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon how goes the way?
<MooDoo> war?
<brobostigon> which war?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: the war of life :)
<MartijnVdS> the war of the worlds!
<brobostigon> MooDoo: another ~60 years of slow motion train crash, when both the train will crash and death,
<SuperMat1> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o SuperMat1
<MartijnVdS> you lost a t
<SuperMat1> I did!
<SuperMatt> phew
<MooDoo> morning SuperMat1 how are you?
<SuperMatt> I'm glad that's sorted
<SuperMatt> I'm going
<MooDoo> hows the job going?
<SuperMatt> I'm good, is what I meant to type
<SuperMatt> job is going well
<SuperMatt> finally working as part of the team, rather than sitting through training!
<MooDoo> brill
<SuperMatt> how are you doing?
<MooDoo> yeah ok thanks :D
<SuperMatt> excellent :)
<jussi> hrm, any piano players here? ikonia are you around ?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: I started a new website lol ubuntu.technology :D
<jussi> MooDoo: hahah
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: nice
<jussi> MooDoo: I think we should buy Winfail.tech
<jussi> and make a post your windows fails type website
<jussi> you in? :D
<MooDoo> jussi: lol sounds good :)  then people can upload their windows failure spotted images :) blue screens on cash machines or airport monitors lol
<jussi> MooDoo: exactly
<MooDoo> hehe
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<jussi> I feel like garfield...
<jussi> LASAGNE!!!!!!!!!
<jussi> NOM!!!!!!
<MooDoo> I've given up meat for the week
<jussi> MooDoo: soy lasagne!
<popey> mmmmm meat
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
<MooDoo> just a personal challenge for the week
<jussi> popey: I swear you must have an alias for that...
<jussi> MooDoo: Ramen everyday.... :P
<MartijnVdS> jussi: Windows everyday?!
<jussi> MartijnVdS: ssh
<MartijnVdS> jussi: not rdp?! ;)
<jussi> lol
<popey> jussi: i do not. i type it
<popey> i do have *some* aliases. just not that one
<jussi> MartijnVdS: you are in fine form today :)
<jussi> popey: :D
<popey>  (ÊâÊ)ã¯ å½¡ â»ââ»
<popey> for example
<jussi> áµá´¥áµ
<jussi> do you like my cat? :D
<popey> awwwww
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | IRC stats: http://tinyurl.com/uukstat | G+ Community: http://tinyurl.com/uukgplus | next meeting TBA | ubuntuî¿  | Cats are awesome áµá´¥áµ
<jussi> awww
<MartijnVdS> (â¯Â°â¡Â°)â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»
<popey> (â¯Â°â¡Â°)â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»
<popey> \o/
<MartijnVdS> ( Ì²Ì:Ì²Ì:Ì²Ì:Ì²Ì[Ì²Ì Ì²Ì]Ì²Ì:Ì²Ì:Ì²Ì:Ì²Ì)
<MooDoo> huh my irssi has just broke lol
<MooDoo> everything has just corrupted :S
<jussi> MooDoo: did the cat pee on it? :D
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy For Peteâs Sake Day! :-D
<MooDoo> jussi: lol
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<jussi> JamesTait: which pete? :P
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Pete's japanese alcoholic drink?
<JamesTait> jussi, I wish I knew.  A lot seems to get done for his sake.
<jussi> JamesTait: hehe
<jussi> I think maybe it isnt just MartijnVdS being in fine form today, its the whole channel! \o/
<popey> MartijnVdS: is that a belt?
<MooDoo> it's hump day, that's why everyone is excitable.
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhesive_bandage
<popey> oh the new samsung
<MartijnVdS> I've seen a few Samsung announcements this week. Which one?
<MooDoo> getting pretty horrific reviews. lol
<popey> MartijnVdS: https://plus.google.com/u/0/105555694224602845621/posts/4MMKEZdxqH5
<jussi> hehe
<MartijnVdS> popey: haha :) win
<jussi> that was funny
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/105555694224602845621/posts/Wphm5bqFoqm also
<MooDoo> popey: ah that's the one I was looking for lol
<DJones> Must admit I'm glad I'm not due to upgrade phones yet, I want to see how the S5/New HTC One X/UBuntu phones compare
<MartijnVdS> <ensue relentless mocking>
<popey> hey, is there a quick way to generate ascii graphs?
<popey> or even graphical ones, on the command line
<MartijnVdS> popey: what's the source data?
<MartijnVdS> just a bunch of numbers?
<popey> i want to do "see how many files there are in each directory below me, and plot the number of them on a graph"
<DJones> popey: Is there a rough idea (as in spring/summer/autumn) when the Ubuntu phone specs are likely to be released
<popey> results of ls */*.click | wc -l
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6949332/in-terminal-ascii-histograms-tool
<MartijnVdS> popey: that links to https://github.com/bitly/data_hacks which looks like it would work
<SuperMatt> ok, it's time for me to create an sdk app
<SuperMatt> wish me luck o/
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Good luck!
<popey> ok, will play
<popey> ta
<SuperMatt> It's  my monthly development day, so I'm going to write an app which can upload files to rackspace/openstack containers
 * SuperMatt continues drinking the company coolaid
<SuperMatt> Koolaid?
<SuperMatt> I don't know
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: dev day?  is that rackspaces equiv of googles 10% time?
<SuperMatt> sure
<MooDoo> awesome
<SuperMatt> except it's totally not 10%
<SuperMatt> probably closer to 2.5%
<MooDoo> I know that's what google has, nearest thing I could relate it too
<SuperMatt> I don't think they have it any more though
<MooDoo> ah
<diplo> Got my sisters S3 with cracked screen/lcd.. anyone know if there is a way to retreive contacts off ( she didn't sync anywhere and no sd card ) off of it, but it has a locked screen that I can't unlock
<diplo> I've found a few ways like take motherboard out into another s3, undo certain cables etc
<diplo> Not ideally what I'd like to do
<dwatkins> I assume the screen being broken is the reason it won't unlock, diplo
<diplo> Yep, I don't know if the lcd is working as I can't see anything, I'm guessing where the keypad is and typing but don't know :)
<bashrc> what's the cheapest phone to test Ubuntu Touch on?
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: an old Galaxy Nexus, but it'll be *slow*
<bashrc> ah
<bashrc> I was looking at the nexus prices.  They look super expensive
<ali1234> diplo: there's various software that can bypass the keylock on samsung phones
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: nah, nexuses are cheap compared to other phones really
<ali1234> galaxy nexus isn't supported any more
<diplo> Oh there is? My google foo is sucking this morning
<bashrc> well, my current mobile phone cost Â£7 from the Tesco bargain bin :)
<dwatkins> If you could unlock it, something like AirDroid would let you get the contacts off, but if that's not already installed (and running) I don't think you can get the contacts off the phone, as they're probably not stored on the MicroSD card.
<diplo> Yeah, airdroid or the hdmi type cable
<diplo> But neither are installed currently
<dwatkins> when I reboot my phone, it locks the screen first of all, so that won't help either
<diplo> yeah some people have said if you're quick with Kies on start up you can get into contacts before it locks
<diplo> Doesn't work :)
<DJones> MooDoo: Following the comments in -irc, thats probably the wrong channel for discussion so moved back here, was that the price for Office 365
<MooDoo> DJones: just checking lol :) yeah I kinda thought that when i typed it
<MooDoo> DJones: http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/home-premium/ Â£7.99 a month, Â£79.99 a year
<MooDoo> you can install it on 5 machnes.
<DJones> That might be worth thinking about, specially being able to install on 5 machines, I'd want it on my work desktop, "work" laptop and probably have to put it on my wifes laptop just in case I have to use her machine for work
<MooDoo> DJones: my wife has just started a course, so although I have it on mine already, I can no install it on hers.
<DJones> And it comes with Publisher, thats the one MS app that I've never really found a reasonable equivalent for on linux
<MooDoo> it does indeed :D
<popey> \o/ no ms office in this house
<popey> kids and wifey use libreoffice only
<MooDoo> pah the dental course my wifes just started they say MS office for some reason :S
<popey> ho ho ho
<popey> nothing changes
<MooDoo> Â£7.99 aint to bad I suppose, still it's not free
<Laney> will it actually matter in reality?
<MooDoo> Laney: the price?  nah!
<Laney> not the price
<Laney> whether you actually use that or LO
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> Laney: she needs publisher :)
<Laney> afternoon davmor2
<MooDoo> hello davmor2
<Laney> PUBLISHER?!?!?!$"Â£>%Â£W$>TJSLGSD
<DJones> I normally use LibreOffice at work, but now and again, there are some documents I get sent that have to be filled in and don't convert well enough
<Laney> I used to use that loads back in the day
<DJones> MooDoo: Does the Â£7.99 version actually install a full office release, or is that just the web apps version
<MartijnVdS> DJones: I think it's both?
<DJones> Just had visions of needing an always on internet connection which wouldn't be good for a laptop
<MartijnVdS> oh it probably needs an internet connection often
<MartijnVdS> to check if you've paid
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<DJones> That wouldn't be an issue, 999 out of 1000 uses, it'd be connected anyway
<MooDoo> DJones: you install it on your machine
<DJones> MooDoo: Ta, thats what I was hoping
<MooDoo> http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/home-premium/#FAQs
<MooDoo> Is Internet access required for Office? read that
<MooDoo> you need win 7 / 8 or mac os
<DJones> I think that will do, maybe have to go for the small business premium version, but still not bad
<MooDoo> It'll do me :D
<DJones> :)
<foobarry> so i tried out this twitter game. completed it already
<foobarry> maybe i wasn't playingon hard mode
<MooDoo> twitter game?
<Laney> what's hard mode?
<Laney> being a female public figure I guess
<foobarry> where you create an accoutn and try to get maximum coverage of your tweets starting from 0 followers and 0 tweets
<foobarry> i won it by my 2nd tweet
<foobarry> > 100,000 people saw it
<foobarry> other tweets getting big retweets and stuff
<foobarry> bored now. too easy
<popey> http://mrmine.com/ is fun
<popey> basic, but fun
<foobarry> don't think i'll try the millioon followers thing
<popey> thinking of making a similar thing in scratch with my codeclub
<DJones> OH BUGGER..Just realised, I'm going to have to UEFI
<MartijnVdS> DJones: nothing wrong with uefi
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Probably not once your used to it, but after seeing som many horror stories, it'll be an interesting experience
<foobarry> got another retweet " To 62939 followers."
<foobarry> :P
<popey> what is this game?
<foobarry> isn't that what tiwtter is about?
<foobarry> write things and see how many retweets you get
<directhex> i win at twitter!
<kvarley> As soon as I add "Match User kevin" to my sshd_config file SSH stops working. why?
<DJones> I've seen a couple, people are deliberatly writing inflamatory comments to get more responses/retweets though
<DJones> And generally things they don't normally bother with
<kvarley> Oh lol, put the match statement in the wrong place
<dwatkins> How can I check an e-mail address is valid without sending it a mail?
<dwatkins> I tried telnetting to port 25 of the mail server, but it threw me out, probably because I'm not on the whitelist.
<diplo> You can't really can you, that would be spammers heaven ?
<dwatkins> ah yes, good point
<diplo> you can check the domain is a valid domain and has mx records
<diplo> ?
<diplo> And then it's down to the mail server to accept or deny
<dwatkins> yeah, it uses messagelabs as its MX record
<knightwise> evening everyone
<dwatkins> probably for spam filtering, like postini
<dwatkins> morning knightwise
<diplo> Yeah I used to use messagelabs at my last place
<diplo> Did a good job at the time tbh
<diplo> morning knightwise
<daubers> Morning all, don't forget that Everything is Awesome!
<dwatkins> my colleague is collecting boxes for recycling, but I reckon he's building one of these: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/6282
<dwatkins> Everything is Awesome :D
<diplo> Talking of pi's - any updates on the ubuntu build ?
 * dwatkins is a bit disillusioned about Kickstarter after the SuperToy debacle, but has faith in AlanBell 
<diplo> dwatkins: that is awesome, I'd love to do stuff like that for my boys
<dwatkins> diplo: I had a piece of wood with some light switches on when I was little, thought it was fantastic ;)
<diplo> My son really wants to build something ( eldest ) but my other son doesn't sit well doing stuff like that, find it very hard as a single parent doing stuff like that when I have both of them
<MooDoo> diplo: my 5 yr old loves minecraft at the moment :)
<popey> yeah, my kids too
<diplo> Yeah, I've leant my 360 to a friend for the last month, must get it back
<jussi> popey: you are evil. That mining game is addictive.
<popey> haha
<popey> jussi: I am down to 68KM
<popey> $80M
<jussi> Im at 15km
<popey> it's one you can just leave running and come back to when you have a cup of tea
<MooDoo> jussi: mining game?
<jussi> MooDoo: http://mrmine.com/
<MooDoo> ta
<diplo> I'm at 11km :/
<diplo> I really should be working :)
<jussi> diplo: me also...
<Laney> is it like cookie clicker?
<daubers> Any openstack people about? Could do with a few pointers :)
<MooDoo> lol you can just leave this game to do it's stuff
<knightwise> hey guys ,
<MooDoo> hello
<knightwise> quick question. do you guys know of a self hosted IM app that supports encryption ?
<knightwise> i'm looking for a communication client/server for a small company
<directhex> self-host XMPP with Prosody, install Pidgin with OTR on all clients
<knightwise> And then use a xmpp compatible client on android  ?
<MattJ> XMPP \o/
<MattJ> Prosody \o/
<dwatkins> I've been considering using Telegram, but havn't looked into it yet.
 * diplo thinks MattJ has prosody on highlight?
<MattJ> Highly recommend Yaxim on Android, the only thing missing is MUC (chatroom) support
<MattJ> diplo, and XMPP, and Jabber
<diplo> heh
<knightwise> ok , gonna have a peek , sounds interesting;
<bashrc> knightwise: I use prosody as an XMPP server.  Instructions here http://freedombone.uk.to/#sec-4.21
<dwatkins> arg, I've used Windows too much today, I keep writing my slashes the wrong way around
<jussi> popey: can you increase the capacity at all?
<popey> yes
<popey> craft cargo bays
<diplo> Need gold for that :)
<popey> hire men
<diplo> yeah got 5 on the go now
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<jussi> popey: ahh yes, now I see... I was crafting stuff but hadnt equipped it
<MattJ> bashrc, nice guide... yours?
<bashrc> yes
<bashrc> a guide created from hours of faffing about
<MooDoo> need to find gold lol
<jussi> MooDoo: I just made it to 20km
<MooDoo> jussi: 16 at the moment, but I need gold to craft bigger storage :D
<knightwise> bashrc: thanx !
<foobarry> anyone do i/o performance checking on their kit?
<foobarry> what read speeds do you get?
<jussi> MooDoo: oooh, just got my first platinum
<MooDoo> jussi: you have to watch this rof your out of capacity lol
<jussi> oh, btw
<jussi> if anyone wants to play, referral time! http://mrmine.com/index.php?r=9115672114224 :D
<bashrc> knightwise: also in a small company setting I've found that IRC is really useful for team cohesion
<jussi> lol, one of the rewards is "talk to the golem" :P
<knightwise> bashrc: but irc is clear text .. no ?
<popey> knightwise: not if you connect securely
<bashrc> knightwise: you can set up IRC with a password and using SSL.  Instructions here: http://freedombone.uk.to/#sec-4.20
<bashrc> The main advantage of IRC over IM is that you can have multiple participants
<bashrc> whereas IM is usually just 1-on-1
<jussi> bashrc: MUC ;)
<bashrc> mano a mano
<bashrc> if you're using something other than Debian 7 on the server then you may just be able to apt-get install hybserv
<jussi> !info hybserv
<lubotu3> hybserv (source: hybserv): IRC services for IRCD-Hybrid. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.9.4-1 (saucy), package size 242 kB, installed size 736 kB
<bashrc> I saw a chart somewhere in which it appeared that hybserv was the only channel manager supporting SSL
<MooDoo> jussi: just trying for 4 cylinder engine, takes ages to get to 110k
<jussi> MooDoo: yeah, Ive got it already, and the crafting is expensive also
<diplo> How many workers have you got MooDoo / jussi ?
<jussi> 6
<MooDoo> diplo: 6
<MooDoo> 26km
<diplo> 27k and 7
<jussi> 28k here
<diplo> Goes up a lot quicker with more people, but they get darn expensive.. 500k next
<jussi> about to buy the ext one
<jussi> next'
<jussi> someone take my link... I want money! :P
<diplo> you get money for reffering ?
<jussi> yeah. click the old fart on the roof
<aquarius> popey, ping
<jussi> diplo: and for reaching 20k, 40k etc
<aquarius> popey, is the comment from you on http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/bq-aquaris-ubuntu-phone-specs#comment-1261219388 really from you? It has a few too many exclamation marks to sound like you.
<aquarius> popey, also, the bq aquaris 5 is actually slightly *larger* than the Nexus 4 :(
<MartijnVdS> bq aquarius
<jussi> found a diamond!
<aquarius> I was pretty careful to spell it the way they do :)
<shauno> tip: there's lava under it
<jussi> diplo: MooDoo popey shauno - come join me in ##mrmine
<popey> aquarius: meow
<popey> aquarius: right, but it's not a gigantic phone
<jussi> hrm, I love it when something works, that isnt traditional...
<jussi> I just made lamb wok...
<jussi> wok/stirfry
<aquarius> popey, I wasn't having a pop. It genuinely didn't sound like you; I was wondering whether the omg comments bug had credited your comment to someone else
<popey> heh
<shauno> the lesser-spotted omgpopey does seem to wield a lot more punctuation than we're accustomed to
<popey> I was excited
<Laney> radmac is amusing today
<MartijnVdS> radmac?
<Laney> 6 music
<Laney> gerrit on
<MartijnVdS> Laney: ESPEAKERS
<Laney> for shame
<MartijnVdS> Laney: I prefer my co-workers in a "not wanting to kill me" state tyvm ;)
<foobarry>  where should static routes be added in centos? rc.local/
<foobarry> ?
<MartijnVdS> ##centos ;)
<foobarry>  where should static routes be added in ubuntu? rc.local?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: I'd use an "up" line in /etc/network/interfaces
<MartijnVdS> also, use "ip route add", not "route add"
<MartijnVdS> also, static routes, in this day & age?!
<foobarry> a necessary evil
<foobarry> on a dual homed box
<diplo> foobarry: Centos6 ?
<diplo>  It'll be in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-eth0 or 1
<foobarry> 5.8 diplo
<foobarry> are those files supported on 5 too?
<diplo> I know it's differrent on 4
<diplo> Give me a sec
<foobarry> thx
<diplo> Should be the same
<foobarry> ta
<diplo> So the syntax is network/24 via route dev eth0
<foobarry> can i do ip route add 123.456.788.123/32 dev eth1
<foobarry> i suppose i better put the next hop
<foobarry> normally i do this without thinking
<foobarry> but i gotta write a change request
<bubu> hey guys. I'm holding some packages back using apt-mark hold pkgname
<bubu> I assume this gets written to a file somewhere so I can check if it is already held?
<mapps> yo
<mapps> well thats good..americans back today
<davmor2> bubu: it tends to be because a dependency can't be updated for some reason so it holds back the app that can't be installed because of it
<bubu> davmor2: it's ok, dpkg --get-selections | grep pkg_name | grep hold
<bubu> will check if that package is held or not
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lo1eggikd6ah30a/IMG_20140226_154114.jpg
<daftykins> move over ceiling cat
<mapps> you see that cat in the paper? had its legs cut off by a garden cutting thing
<mapps> ;/
<mapps> cats are cute
<daftykins> D: nah i don't read any papers
<daftykins> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/b4f29be1fa739ac22496c36c846024e4.html
<daftykins> this is very handy, gonna use it to keep track of my strange packet loss
<bigcalm> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Coiajj5ScBA
<bigcalm> audio is NSWF
<shauno> what the
<bigcalm> :)
<shauno> the innuendos are strong with this one
<bigcalm> NSFW even
<shauno> actually looks like a lot of fun
<diddledan> 6% of mtgox bitcoins have apparently been stolen?
<diddledan> http://collaboristablog.com/2014/02/bitcoin-bedlam-mt-gox-shuts-doors-apparent-data-leak/
<shauno> only 6%?
<ali1234> no, that report is claiming 6% of *all* bitcoins
<ali1234> but it's rubbish
<shauno> I actually find the whole thing terribly exciting.  finally seems like a good time to buy
<ali1234> gox wouldn't be closed if it only lost 6% of coins
<ali1234> otoh it's pretty much impossible for them to have lost more than about 30%
<ali1234> after that they wouldn't ever be able to make valid transactions
<diddledan> shauno, INORITE
<diddledan> a currency crash is the best time to invest
<shauno> unfortunately bitstamp want me to scan various documents, and I a) don't use paper, and b) don't own a scanner
<diddledan> provided you can be sure the currency isn't going to disappear
<diddledan> hmm, I should reboot to patch os x's ssl bug
<diddledan> gotofail
<daftykins> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p5feX5IDyRrfy-3IYqV8lWe_S3sSDf4Q2-VAdXlaTz0=w797-h598-no
<daftykins> mate of a mate, about to get 330/30 Mb tubes over FTTP for Â£50/mo
<daftykins> =/
<diddledan> daftykins, that's so unfair
<daftykins> ikr
<shauno> that's evil.  I only have half of that living in a third-world country
<dogmatic69> upgrading to 13.10
<dogmatic69> my internet connection <3 http://i.imgur.com/f4lKBzU.png
<diddledan> daftykins, which company did he go with?
<diddledan> apparently I can get fttp here. whoknew?!
<daftykins> diddledan: not sure sir, he went to bed so i cannot ask
<daftykins> wow, what's the damage?
<diddledan> a&a are suggesting 10GB(daytime) and 500GB(evening/weekend) (14 of their "units" in total) at Â£76.80/mo with 125 install
<diddledan> sorry, 100 install
<daftykins> as in you have to sign up 99 neighbours?
<diddledan> http://aa.net.uk/broadband-FP.html
<diddledan> no, 100Â£
<daftykins> that's ace
<ali1234> wat
<shauno> wot
<daftykins> wit
<ali1234> that's not per day you know
<ali1234> that's 10GB per month in the day time
<ali1234> for Â£76/month
<diddledan> ali1234, yes
<shauno> that's like .. my phone
<ali1234> it's like my phone except it costs 10x as much
<diddledan> I'm trying to find another provider that isn't bt
<shauno> my monthly usage is way over their 'weekend/evening'
<shauno> my daytime .. well I don't tend to wake up if I'm not working.  10GB/mo might be workable if I pay attention to background scheduling
<diddledan> hmm, maybe I can't - it's listed as fttp on demand which afaik costs over 1k to get installed
<daftykins> D:
<diddledan> I can't get the bt website to work so I can't find out anything from the horses mouth
<daftykins> so get 9 neighbours signed up, rock-on \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-27
<gebbione> hi, anyone has a suggestion for a free TTS software with decent voices?
<diddledan> gebbione, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2173822
<gebbione> diddledan, interesting thanks ... for the moment i found a windows app called loquendo, it is quite great but i might try this sbreader too
<diddledan> gebbione, specifically sbreader mentioned in that thread is claimed to support the google tts service
<ali1234> how do i turn off the ability to type Ã 
<ali1234> i just want to press ` once and get `
<ali1234> i don't even need to type Ã 
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: select a keyboard layout without "dead keys"
 * MartijnVdS uses US International with "AltGr dead keys", so " is ", but AltGr+", e = Ã«
<diddledan> ali1234, press the alt + ` + `
<diddledan> or whichever key it is
<diddledan> twice is the magic number though
<diddledan> Â´^`Â¨~
<diddledan> that's by pressing each modifier twice instead of choosing the letter to modify
<diddledan> so alt + \ + \ is the magic sequence for you
<jussi> o/
<mapps> hi guys
<jussi> morning mapps
<WhoWhat> @find Brazen armstrong
<MooDoo> morning all
<jussi> morning MooDoo
<mapps> time for the americans e1
<mapps> wooho
<MangledBlue> Can anybody assist in install?? - MD5 checks out - c7f439e864d28d9e5ca2aa885c4ec4cb *ubuntu-12.04.4-desktop-amd64.iso  - but I cannot get it to install - please assist -
<MooDoo> MangledBlue: What's the actual issue, is it not reading the disk?  Are you having problems with it booting?
<mapps> ya whats happening
<MangledBlue> I got nothing here - DL'd iso - burnt - now I cannot install no matter what I try
<MangledBlue> any thoughts?
<knightwise> morning peeps
<MooDoo> MangledBlue: does the disk read in another os?  when you boot the machine with the disk in the drive does it start to read it, have you set the system to boot from cdfirst?
<MooDoo> need a bit more information here :)
<MangledBlue> I have - I guess I get my WIN 7 DVD but it has worked in the past - should I try?
<MangledBlue> never been a problem in the past
<MooDoo> ok so you've used that disk before....ok yes try your win 7 dvd see if the problem is with the drive.
<MangledBlue> right then - gonna B a sec before I come back - wait for me? - lol
<MooDoo> We're here all day :d
<MangledBlue> and let me just say - THANK YOU - your the 1st person in 7 "chats" that has assisted - I really do Thank You :-)
<MooDoo> Hope we can get you sorted :D
<MangledBlue> same mate - same
<MangledBlue> brb
<MangledBlue> right then -
<MangledBlue> win 7 cd works - hummm - your Moo! - some people on other pages said !Moo and Moo! -- lol
<MangledBlue> still there
<MangledBlue> ?
<MooDoo> lol yeah still here, so maybe not the drive, dirty ubuntu cd?  does it read ok from what ever desktop os you're using now?
<MangledBlue> it seems to show DIR - I have no reason to think anything wrong of it - was/is new dvd
<MangledBlue> shinky like mirror
<MangledBlue> shiny - lol
<MangledBlue> MD5 is ok
<MooDoo> yeah that's fine, but can you read the contents of the cd physically?
<MangledBlue> 379 files - 58 folders
<MangledBlue> it puls up a DIR
<MangledBlue> Read Only
<MooDoo> great that sounds ok then, ok next step, booting the machine with the cd, what happens then, does it load the purple boot screen?  or just makes funny noises when it's trying to read the cd?
<MangledBlue> 731 MB
<MangledBlue>  - lol - it does not load anything - WIN7 DVD asks to boot to cd/dvd - this thing does nothing - then win 7 boots
<MangledBlue> completely skips the norm
<MooDoo> ok so what about the boot order of the machine, have you got cd before hdd?
<MangledBlue> I think - CD - USB - External - HDD - 2nd HDD - something of that order - set in BIOS
<MooDoo> should be ok, so with the win 7 dvd does that boot from the cd, just trying to think if it's disk or drive.
<MangledBlue> I did have 2nd HDD set before HDD but I have my daughters HDD in 2nd - does not like that since it has her WIN7 on it
<MangledBlue> I'm think'n disc b/c win7 disc boot'd
<MangledBlue> fone
<MangledBlue> fine
<MooDoo> yeah sounds like it then, do you have spare cd's that you could burn, or alternatively try the disk in a friends machine after sweet talking them :)
<MangledBlue> Ya know - did not even think of that - DUH - I have 3 computers - LOL - 2 I use and a MINER on 1 - sorry Crytocurrency guys here - 1 sec - trying the next lappy - duh - lol
<MooDoo> lol
<MangledBlue> yea - has to be the disc - not work in the other lappy also
<MangledBlue> guess I have to re-burn
<MooDoo> huzzah! o/
<MooDoo> ish lol
<MangledBlue> so - I'll do that and see - so thank you for the assist - be back soon
<MangledBlue> well - I'll still be here but..... burning
<MooDoo> :)
<MangledBlue> burning now - left the 2nd lappy ready to get cd/dvd - boot menu - won't be long now.....
<MangledBlue> you would think that with proper MD5 I would be ok - but - maybe I have a coruppted DL?
<diddledan> check the md5 on the download with the one published wherever they publish it
<MangledBlue> yep - I have a win7 property's thing that check the MD5 and SHA - etc - then looked at the PUB site for correct MD5 - - Oh 1 sec - burn done
<MangledBlue> trying in 2nd lappy 1st
<MangledBlue> OH SHIT
<MangledBlue> It's working
<MangledBlue> 1 sec
<MangledBlue> UBUNTU
<MangledBlue> lol
<MangledBlue> right on man
<MangledBlue> crazy sounding disc
<MangledBlue> almost like some scratch - wigky wigky
<MangledBlue> lol
<MangledBlue> see what happens
<MangledBlue> it's coming up
<MangledBlue> so - can I install on one HDD and then go back and forth between HDD1 and HDD2 as I wish?
<MangledBlue> TRY - selected - good you mate !!!!
<MangledBlue> Oh hey - LOL Task bar on left side - just like I like it - so cool
<MooDoo> :)
<MangledBlue> I kow you really did not do anything but - hey -  YOU still the SHIT - lol
<MangledBlue> I thank you very much - do you coin?
<MooDoo> you're most welcome and no I don't, just enjoy ubuntu and know where we all are if you need assistance :D
<MangledBlue> Yeah - I think I'm goona like this -
<MangledBlue> Once again - thank you fine Sir - I might come find you in the future - it's all new to me - wigky wigky :-)
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> If I'm not about, we're a large community, there'll be someone around
<MangledBlue> you were the one and only to assit me on ANY Ubuntu page - ugh - SO much thanks - If I can ever assit you - just ask
<MooDoo> will do no probs :)
<MangledBlue> peace put brother :-)    FADES TO BLACK..............................
<MangledBlue> put = out
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> good deed done for the day - check!
<SuperMatt> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> morning SuperMatt MartijnVdS
 * MartijnVdS needs to figure out a way to tell the Ubuntu installer it's OK to install with partial locale support through debconf
<MartijnVdS> but there doesn't seem to be an override :(
<MartijnVdS> that would automate my VM installs to 100%, instead of 99% + ENTER
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: why do you need to install partial locale?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: the installer isn't translated to nl_NL, but I want the installed system to be nl_NL (which works fine)
<diddledan> oh
<MartijnVdS> though it can be confusing, seeing Dutch messages from apt and dpkg ;)
<SuperMatt> first day on the phones today
<SuperMatt> wish me luck
<TheOpenSourcerer> Happy Chilli Day :-)
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: you don't need luck, you'll be fine.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Polar Bear Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: I prefer my bears Cartesian
<JamesTait> Ba-dum, tsch!
<MooDoo> you lot get out now!
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<foobarry> :( bikes got nicked last night. crime spree continues http://ubuntuone.com/3nUUcdD9dyLrO9XJsq8vat
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: :(
<foobarry> they destroyed my garden tools too.
<bashrc> idiots
<foobarry> the bikes were d-locked together.
<bashrc> is it polar bear day already?
<bashrc> http://www.altiusdirectory.com/Society/polar-bear-day.html
<popey> â¹
<TheOpenSourcerer> JamesTait: It's actually Chilli Day :-D
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer, it is!  And Strawberry Day! :)
<WhoWhat> @find Atwater-Rhodes
<MangledBlue> MOOO?
<MooDoo> hello :) welcome back
<MangledBlue> Right then - I would like to personally thank MooDoo for assisting me in my first fresh install of ubuntu - it's like I have a new computer :-) so cool- WOOHOO !!
<MooDoo> You're most welcome
<MangledBlue> My NEW Frenchy friend Kartoon hooked me up and MooDoo assisted - you guys are freak'n awesome
<MangledBlue> do I have to ask for a cloak or am I ok?
<MartijnVdS> you're fine
<MangledBlue> also need to read up on hiding my ip
<MooDoo> you only get an ubuntu cloak if you're an ubuntu member, so what you have now is ok
<MartijnVdS> most people take off their cloaks when they're in a room anyway. And aren't they a bit old-fashioned? ;)
<MooDoo> you can ask the freenode staff for an unaffiliated cloak if you want to hide your stuff
<MangledBlue> lol
<MangledBlue> I did ask - but was not sure if... well - am I cloaked now? - it's all new  to me - damn 43 and still learning - lol
<MooDoo> quit the channel then log back in a sec so I can see what it's currntly set to
<MangledBlue> was useing DOS way before windows but I missed a LOt over then years
<MooDoo> lol I started with dos 3.1 ;)
<MangledBlue> so log out and come back it? or just quit the channel?
<MooDoo> just quit the channel
<MangledBlue> k 1 sec
<MangledBlue> right then
<MooDoo> you're not cloaked, watch mine
<MooDoo> see what it said for me ?
<MangledBlue> what am I suppose ta see?
<MangledBlue> MooDoo [~paulmello@92.60.127.14] has left #ubuntu-uk []
<MooDoo> did you see anything about moodoo leaving the channel?
<MangledBlue> yep
<MangledBlue> yep
<MooDoo> watch again
<MangledBlue> [~paulmello@unaffiliated/moodoo] has left #ubuntu-uk []
<MooDoo> see something different now?
<MangledBlue> am I missing something?
<MooDoo> MangledBlue: first time i wasn't identified so it showed my IP.
<MangledBlue> Oh- lol
<MangledBlue> so was I cloaked?
<MooDoo> second time i identified myself to the system so it showed my unaffialiated cloak which hides it.
<MooDoo> no you wasn't I could see your ip.
<MooDoo> Have you registered your nick?
<MangledBlue> right on
<MangledBlue> yep
<MooDoo> have you identified yourself to chanserv?
<MangledBlue> 1 sec
<jussi> webchat... iirc does stange things
<MangledBlue> like this ? msg NickServ identify <password>
<MooDoo> yeah try it but it's /msg nickserv identify <password>
<MooDoo> then read this - http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
<MangledBlue> yeah I know about the slash - lol
<MooDoo> i knew that, but not everyone does lol
<MangledBlue> msg nickserv identify aG97-3Ky69-MiCt
<MangledBlue> damn was that live?
<MangledBlue> grrrrrrrr
<MangledBlue> how do i change my psw?
<MooDoo> yes lol
<MangledBlue> damnit
<MooDoo> what client you using?
<MangledBlue> internet right now
<MooDoo> ah not sure using web clients
<MangledBlue> just got on new os
<MooDoo> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#changepass
<MangledBlue> got it
<MangledBlue> TY
<MangledBlue> WHEW
<MangledBlue> I am SO writing this shit down - - LOL
<MooDoo> lol ok before someone else does it !language :p
<MooDoo> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<MooDoo> hee hee
<MangledBlue> sorry - my bad
<MooDoo> yeah yeah tell me to **** off ;)
<MangledBlue> RIGHT !   LOL
<MangledBlue> Last thing I need is to get banned from here - ugh
<MooDoo> it'll take a bit more than that :)
<MangledBlue> whew -
<MangledBlue> cool
<MangledBlue> I'm just a slightly buzz ( drunk) American - my bad guys - - - LOL
<MooDoo> MangledBlue: you in the uk or the states at the mo?
<MangledBlue> not much ta do on the dole
<MangledBlue> can't get this msg thing ta work
<MangledBlue> States
<MangledBlue> I assume your UK? - North or South - LOL
<MangledBlue> ?
<MangledBlue> I guess the msg did work - just found it
<MooDoo> yeah we're uk, just thinking you might have your own loco team nearer to you, not that i'm pushing you away
<ali1234> why does centos rename apache to httpd?
<ali1234> or rather why does rhel do this?
<MooDoo> I think it's more, why did debian change to apache ;)
<ali1234> because thats what it is called
<bigcalm> There's more than one httpd in this world
<MooDoo> from what I can tell, in the apache svn system, it is called httpd, rhel never changed it, I'm guessing that debian originally changed it to read what it actually is and called it apache
<davmor2> ali1234: it seems it is called many things http://wiki.apache.org/httpd/DistrosDefaultLayout
<MooDoo> interesting
<MooDoo> ahd hello davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: Morning dude
<davmor2> Morning all too
<foobarry> wow bug 861171 got fixed
<lubotu3> bug 861171 in OEM Priority Project precise "Shutdown from greeter does nothing when multiple accounts open" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861171
<davmor2> I see popey has been at the Topic again | Cats are Uber Awesome is the sentiment I think he was trying convey though
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: CATS: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/Aybabtu.png
<foobarry> only a cat would write that
<MooDoo> hello SuperMatt how'd your time on the phones go?
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: Thank Tom Bruns of "International Linux Support" for fixing our SSL cert location oddity :)
<bigcalm> Or I could update the ticket myself to say thanks
<daftykins> hmm, looking at wordpress themes today to get something decent for my own website
<daftykins> seems not to be an easy task
<mapps> er lol
<mapps> yesterday i was messing about with my machine ..connected from work messing with scripts and iptables
<mapps> ..locked myself out:D
<mapps> hehe
<daftykins> \o/
<mapps> schoolboy error eh
<mapps> iu was messing about blocking countries
<mapps> and ya blocked everything lol
<daftykins> mapps: muahaha block the world!
<mapps> :D
<mapps> need to examing qweb config wanted to run it on a diff port
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: you must have got through to another department cos I don't know who that is
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: are you smb or enterprise?
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: went well, wasn't as scary as I thought it would be :)
<diddledan> boh yackor shar
<diddledan> I am very with the children
<diddledan> is not it
<diddledan> </troll>
<diddledan> in other news, I'm out of pepsi
<daftykins> suddenly your peaks and trouths make more sense
<daftykins> troughs too
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> sugardan!
<maps|wrk> Hello
<MartijnVdS> \o mapster
<maps|wrk> whats up MartijnVdS
 * MartijnVdS is playing with VMs
<MartijnVdS> .. again
<diddledan> anything fun?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I can click in virt-manager, and have a VM installed with only one or two keypresses (both "enter")
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: and it'll be registered with my chef server automagically
<diddledan> yey
<diddledan> I've not played with chef
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: so I can then drag and drop "roles" onto it, and it'll auto-configure/install a lot of packages :)
<diddledan> nice
<MartijnVdS> it feels so 21st century :)
<maps|wrk> hm heard of chef but dunno what it is
<diddledan> drag+drop?!
<maps|wrk> what are your vms running
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Chef has a web interface :)
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: Trusty and Precise
<shauno> I still have to figure esxi out :/  I don't even want to look at VMs anymore
<diddledan> the annoying thing with both xenserver and vmware esxi is that they require windows management tools
<shauno> right, that's what I need to avoid
 * MartijnVdS uses kvm + libvirt-bin
<diddledan> yeah libvirt is pretty good these days
<shauno> my biggest hold-back is that I'm using premade VMs, and every attempt at converting them has been big pain
<diddledan> running windows?
<shauno> nah the contents are all redhat variants
<diddledan> for some reason microsoft refuse to consider hardware change as a legitimate activity
<diddledan> they should be easy to change then
<diddledan> qemu-img
<diddledan> the chances are kvm will read them as is though
<shauno> it's not converting the disks that's the issue
<maps|wrk> whats ms got to do with the vms and hardware change??
<diddledan> maps|wrk: windows throws a hissy when you change the hardware. switching virualisation tech is akin to changing the hardware
<shauno> it's just an incredibly frustrating toolchain.  from the outside it looks like a complete mess of tools that are held together by happenstance - if at all
<shauno> I've still never managed to get bridged networking working, etc.  most the documentation is a pretty cruel joke
<diddledan> bridged networking? what virtualisation can't do bridged networking?!
<shauno> well, trying to create a lan that's available to the clients
<shauno> so I have outside->vm->virtual lan->more vms
<gebbione> hi folks is meetup.com down for you?
<gebbione> i have seen it down all day
<shauno> which I can do on my mac just fine.  but I can't run a lab on that.  and trying to replicate it with the linux bridge tools is basically self-harm
<diddledan> gebbione: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/meetup.com
<shauno> also https://twitter.com/Meetup
<gebbione> diddledan, i use that site too, but maybe that site is not so redundant to spot the problem, i was just wandering if anyone else had seen it down throughout the day. I have seen it down since 14:00
<gebbione> DDoS
<gebbione> nice
<diddledan> first post on twatface was 6 hours ago
<diddledan> I'd like to know how you differentiate a ddos from the slashdot effect
<gebbione> i received a meetup message at 14:43, 10 min later max it was down for me
<maps|wrk> ]never even heard of meetup before
<calju16> hey all
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-28
<xnox> the amount of work and pain we go through to make 0.1 release of anything...
<mapps> hey
<jussi> morning mapps
<mapps> hey whats up..almost weekend! any plans?
<mapps> 2 of my lights in my room went and i have no spare bulbs..quite annoying!
<jussi> mapps: off to the shop with you
<jussi> weekend? whats that?
<jussi> :P
<jussi> nah, the brother in law is coming over to hang out, we will watch the football together
<MooDoo> morning all
<jussi> its a MooDoo!
<MooDoo> it is indeed.
<mapps> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> morning:)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: one for you perhaps http://www.eventbrite.com/e/public-sector-hackathon-tickets-10630711745
<cocoa117> can tcpdump been used to listen for traffic is not intented for the host it sitting on?
<MooDoo> cocoa117: I've found this page, does it help? http://us.generation-nt.com/answer/tcpdump-capturing-traffic-only-external-hosts-help-184065101.html
<SuperMatt> cocoa117: only if the traffic is on a cable that hits the machine
<jussi> btw, just to beat JamesTait to it... http://imgur.com/F8npXhT :D
<MooDoo> lol brill
<SuperMatt> I'd like a hug
<SuperMatt> don't hug engineers and hug me instead
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: you're not an engineer?
<cocoa117> SuperMatt, MooDoo, yes i just realised that the switch could simply direct traffic to specific port rather then broadcast it to all the ports
<SuperMatt> if you're using a old fashioned hub then you might be able to read the traffic
<MartijnVdS> do those even exist for >10mbit?
<cocoa117> SuperMatt, en, it's all managed switch here, so...
<SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: probably not
<SuperMatt> cocoa117: then no
<SuperMatt> you'd have to run tcpdump on a router or something
<jussi> disclaimer, I have no idea if that is actually this week, but Im happy with it in anycase :P
<DJones> \o/ Laptop ordered, delivery tomorrow :)
<MooDoo> DJones: yay, what you go with in the end?
<DJones> The Lenovo 8gb, 1920x1080, nvidia graphics, 1TB hdd
<MooDoo> nice
<DJones> Will be ideal to test 14.04 on
<DJones> Decided it wasn't worth paying the extra Â£150 for the 8gb ssd cache & an extra 8gb ram
<MooDoo> well the mem you can probably just get from crucial at half the price
<DJones> Yeah probably will be able to
<DJones> 2 8gb modules would be Â£120
<MooDoo> not too bad
<MooDoo> I re-installed 12.04 LTS last night, 14.04 was crashing far to often lol
<MooDoo> I think it's my laptop rather than the software, no errors, just hard locks :(
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: crashing? I don't have that experience?
<DJones> It'll be interesting to see how Minecraft on this with nvidia & an i7 compares to current laptop with intel & i3
<MartijnVdS> what kind of hardware does it have?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: just a standard dell laptop, nothing special, I've been getting locks in windows as well, so I doubt it's the software
<DJones> When I've crashes on a machine with different os's, it always seems to come down to either faulty memory or a failing hdd
<MooDoo> memory possibly, the drive is new
<TheOpenSourcerer> Neat: http://news.techworld.com/sme/3504377/google-to-have-build-it-yourself-smartphone-prototype-ready-within-weeks/
<diplo> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vehicle-tax-changes
<diplo> Anyone read that
<diplo> ?
<diplo> Don't like this bit 'When selling a vehicle to a new vehicle keeper, the vehicle tax will no longer be transferable. Vehicle tax will end when a vehicle is sold and the new keeper will need to get the vehicle taxed immediately before the vehicle can be used.'
<jussi> diplo: well thats kinda crap.
<diplo> It is
<diplo> Can pay monthly though as of Oct
<TheOpenSourcerer> gosh. So do you get a refund for months that won't be used up then?
<diplo> I was just chatting withmy mate about that
<diplo> I said I'd send my taxdisc back and get a refund and then pass that on to the new owner
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've really never understood why they just don't scrap the whole thing and stick a penny or two on fuel (or whatever the right amount is). Would be much fairer: Do more miles you pay more.
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: I agree, I'm guessing that is how the French and Spanish goverments do it
<diplo> Think how much we'd save on vans and staff at the offices :)
<DJones> I think the tax discs are a sort of way of forcing people to get mot's & insurance, although they say that its normally check with number plate recognition now rather than by spotting out of date tax discs
<diplo> Yeah as of Oct you don't need to display them anymore
<bashrc> yes I agree
<TheOpenSourcerer> I just bought next 6 month's tax disc on-line. Was not asked for insurance or MoT.
<diplo> They each have access to each others DB's now to do quick look ups afaik
<diplo> Police can do it whilst out on the road
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: The website checks with the insurance & DVLA databases before letting you proceed (certainly at the end of may anyway)
<bashrc> but I think the online system checks insurance/mot status for that registration number
<TheOpenSourcerer> So - in that case there really is no need for charging the road tax in this way any more. Charge everyone a Â£10 fee or something to register each year, then get the rest on fuel.
<diplo> Also they only use something like 10% of road tax to repair roads :/
<DJones> The one that frustrates me is having to renew you driving licence every 10 years unless you've got the old style paper green ones
<diplo> Just got my renewal yesterday!
<diplo> 20 quid if I don't have a passport within the last 5 years ( need to check mine )
<DJones> diplo: I renewed mine at the post office because my passport was out of date, cost a bit more, but saved on not having to provide a new photo, they put you in a booth and take the photo, let you sign on a touchpad etc
<diplo> Oooh noted, will pop down :)
<diplo> ta
<DJones> If your passport is in date, you'd be able to do it online, photo & signiture comes from the passport office so is probably the cheapest method
<DJones> Post office charges an extra Â£4.50 but includes the photo's you'd normally have to supply
<diplo> yeah going to check over the weekend
<hoover> morning folks
<MooDoo> morning hoover
<ali1234> this is odd. i'm seeing traffic on a webserver from many different hosts, all claim to be ubuntu, and they're all hammering one URL
<ali1234> by hammering i mean each IP is reloading the URL about once per second
<ali1234> it's still a laughable amount of traffic though
<ali1234> and the user agent is blatantly a lie since it never loads images
<ali1234> so my question is... why?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<DJones> Its wierd when you read/listen to a book thats been made into a movie and you realise how far from the original storyline the movie is
<diplo> Which one DJones ? and yeah happens quite a bit doesn't it :) guess it's hard to convey stuff from words into a film sometimes
<DJones> diplo: Robert Heinlen's Starship Troopers, there's some similarities, but not much
<MooDoo> isn't that all movies?
<DJones> MooDoo: Yep
<DJones> Can't believe I hadn't read the original book though
<DJones> Its getting wierd towards the end with him meeting up with his father who'd also enlisted
<diplo> Not read that yet DJones, must take a looksy
<diplo> I watched John Carter and then read the books
<foobarry> i'm required to sit through some safety training which i've already completed once. it won't let me skip through to the test , instead forcing me to click through 10 sections. here's the JS frame that blocks it - any suggestions how to skipstraight to test? http://pastebin.com/bcG5cJfN
<diplo> A lot of stuff was ok, but they mashed book 1 and 2 into movie 1
<DJones> How did they compare, I gave up on the movie after about 45 minutes
<diplo> I enjoyed the movie, then again I enjoy most movies as I watch them to enjoy them not to compare them, it was fairly accurate in the most part
<diplo> I'd like a second film though but doubt they'll do it as it flopped so hard
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Tooth Fairy Day! :-D
<DJones> Yeah that one didn't exactly do too well
<DJones> I normally listen to audiobooks most of the day at work as I'm in an office on my own, can't get interested in listening to music radio, so its either audiobooks or something like radio 4
<foobarry> any javascript weenies able to tell me how to frig the url to accept a link to the selftest?
<diplo>  if (parent.intCurrentSection > parent.oSections.length+3) {
<diplo> Show finishing page, so I'd say see if you can change the CurrentSection
<foobarry> by passing a parameter?
<diplo> intTrueSection maybe, I'm not great at js but maybe
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2, bit early for you?
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: m-i-l med run at 11 so saves me working over tonight also mean I can just start after the 9:30 call
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Woman Hitler
<davmor2> bigcalm: What?
<bigcalm> Mother-in-Law
<bigcalm> Unless I'm mistaken
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> oldie but a goody :P
<bigcalm> mother in law
<bigcalm> -woman = ther i l
<bigcalm> woman hitler
<bigcalm> davmor2: I wasn't referring to your mother-in-law :)
<davmor2> Yeah I got it
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> with no lamer
<ali1234> win real moth
<ali1234> i throw an elm
<bigcalm> Still going eh?
<popey> ooh http://www.ebuyer.com/516960-seagate-600-series-480gb-2-5inch-sata-iii-ssd-st480hm000
<bigcalm> Ooo
<MooDoo> wow that's cheap
<DJones> MTGOX has filed for bankruptcy
<DJones> Or bankruptcy protection to be more accurate
<davmor2> popey: I love the term imaginationally challenged.  Technically I don't think it is a word, but it is a great description :)
<popey> i did write something stronger then thought better of it
<MooDoo> DJones: I thought they were opening withdrawals again, is this not the case?
<DJones> MooDoo: Looks unlikely, suggestions they've had Â£210M of bitcoins stolen http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25233230
<MooDoo> DJones: but what about peoples whose bc are still there....wow that's a lot of money lost
<davmor2> MooDoo: real banks lost more than that trading
<MooDoo> I know but if you had lots of them in their you've lost them and that's a lot of money
<DJones> MooDoo: I guess if you believe the hype about bitcoin being used by a lot of "shady" characters, you might not want to be the person that nicked the coins from the said "shady" characters
<MooDoo> DJones: isn't it untraceable though?
<DJones> Thats the theory
<DJones> I've just got visions of somebody nicking the kray twins secret stash & how they'd respond
<bashrc> bitcoin is a public ledger.  It's the most transparent currency system ever invented
<bashrc> if I were a "shady character" I would stay away from it
<ali1234> the gox thing doesn't add up. at all
<ali1234> i mean it's literally mathematically impossible for their stated explanation to be true
<jussi> cream is a wonderful substance :)
<bashrc> does bitmessage use sha1 ?
<jussi> I think I need to make scones...
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z37zw/mt_gox_has_at_least_200k_btc/
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: that's not proof of anything either
<bashrc> or rather does bitcoin use sha1?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: That's proof those coins haven't moved since 2011, when Gox used them to prove something
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: that does't necessarily mean they have access to them
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: the only way for them to lose it, is by losing (access to) the privkeys
<MartijnVdS> either by being idiots, or by (government) force
<ali1234> my personal theory is that when gox made that transaction to "prove" they controlled the coins, they messed it up, and sent the coins to an address they didn't know the key of
<bashrc> i.e. if they use an insecure hash then that could explain a lot of missing or duplicated bitcoins
<MartijnVdS> or both :)
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: no, that's not it.
<bashrc> alil234: that sounds like a viable hypothesis
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that sounds like Gox incompetence
<ali1234> the only explanation offered by gox is that transaction malleability lead to the loss of the coins, however this cannot be true
<bashrc> incompetence is a universal
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: sure, but at Gox, it was highly concentrated.
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: if you read its history, and that of the people involved, it's a wonder they stayed up as long as theyd is
<MartijnVdS> they did*
<ali1234> gox was only ever one guy
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: he had a handful of employees I think?
<ali1234> contractors with no real access to anything
<bashrc> probably one guy with a server in his bedroom
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: Starbucks in Tokyo ;)
<bashrc> a sushi bar
<bashrc> so yes, if Gox was just one guy then screwups are certainly a possibility
<ali1234> yeah, the problem is that the given explanation isn't one of the possible ways they could have messed up
<ali1234> so if they're lying about that...
<bashrc> they're probably lying to avoid fraud charges
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: that sounds.. strange
<ali1234> hmm... i just thought of something actually
<ali1234> it's possible that they could have lost everything through one mutated transaction
<ali1234> they put 550,000 in one transaction... then someone withdraws 1btc. so they send 1btc to the guy and 549,000 to their change address. tx gets mutated so their wallet thinks it didn't happen... and then it throws away the change address key
<ali1234> that would effectively destroy those 549,000 btc
<ali1234> still that's not theft, that's just loss
<jussi> but surely there would be systems in place so that every peice is saved somewhere? ie. a very verbose log or so? or were they really that incompetant.
<ali1234> wouldn't be the first time someone lost bitcoins by forgetting about the change address
<MooDoo> wow canical legal takes an age :)
<ali1234> example: you have a paper wallet. you want to spend some of it so you boot a livecd, input the wallet, then send however much. then you reboot. is this okay?
<ali1234> if you said "yes" you just made a costly mistake
<MooDoo> damn the moths get out?
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Seen this? http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/28/minecraft-movie-mojang-warner
<popey> yeah
<popey> interestingly i was talking to wifey about it and she went "oh god no!"
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> she teaches kids (including sam) and she asked them to do a creative writing exercise the other day
<popey> she said minecraft is sapping their creativity
<MooDoo> I'm a bit peeved with that to be honest.
<MartijnVdS> there's a lego movie
<popey> she was reviewing them and they were all (boys) wrote stories about creepers and swords and stuff
<popey> none of them had an original thought of their own
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh.
<MooDoo> I watch another guy who does movies and he did a kickstarter campaign to get minecraft into a movie and notch blocked it....
<popey> but the girls (who didnt play minecraft) wrote new stories about fairies and stuff
<popey> MooDoo: yes, because he didnt ask first
<popey> bit dumb really
<ali1234> lol
<MooDoo> popey: i really don't believe he didn't ask, surely someone can't be that dumb or am I being really naive?
<ali1234> because fairies are totally original right?
<popey> MooDoo: yes, he said so
<popey> ali1234: sure, i was using that as an example, but the girls came up with different stuff
<MooDoo> raaaaaaa what a <insert expletive here]
<popey> the boys _all_ came up with minecraft
<ali1234> i don't see a problem
<ali1234> minecraft doesn't exactly have a plot
<ali1234> i don't see how they can make a movie out of it personally
<ali1234> i think what this shows is a lack of role models for boys
<popey> unless it's tron-like
<popey> getting sucked into the block world or something
<popey> thats my bet
<ali1234> that would suck :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> A very big aircraft: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26372277
<popey> has to fight to get out.. meets other people who got sucked in... form a team, overcome zombies.. etc
<popey> yeah, bet that's it
<ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: it looks like a giant flying butt
<MooDoo> well I guess we'll soon all see
<ali1234> cannot be unseen
<TheOpenSourcerer> They interviewed the bloke from Iron Maiden on Radio 4 this morning, who is a backer - he said it's like Thunderbird 2 :-D
<ali1234> yes i heard that. i can see the resemblance
<ali1234> but still...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some juicy quotes from Bruce Dickinson on this one: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26337673 "... it can plonk 50 tonnes anywhere in the world you like, which is 50 times more than a helicopter."
<TheOpenSourcerer> "We'll fly over the Amazon at 20ft, over some of the world's greatest cities and stream the whole thing on the internet."
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that looks awesome!
<popey> aren't we short of helium?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno. Are we?
<bigcalm> That's what I was about to say
<bigcalm> Yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> Can't we make it?
<MartijnVdS> popey: just use hydrogen instead ;)
<popey> WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG!
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: we could, but it would take forever :)
<ali1234> we're short of lab-grade helium
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, i saw a story about people complaining that we're low on helium, because it .. well, floats away
<popey> ah
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Helium is the second lightest element and is the second most abundant element in the observable universe,  being present at about 24% of the total elemental mass, which is more  than 12 times the mass of all the heavier elements combined. "
<ali1234> they don't use that in balloons and airships though
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium
<awilkins> Yeah, it may be very abundant in the universe
<awilkins> But it's mostly concentrated in stars
<popey> like kylie?
<awilkins> And gas giants
<popey> oh, like davmor2
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha
<bigcalm> :D
<awilkins> Helium prices are stupidly low because the USA decided to treat it's strategic helium reserve as a cash cow
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh "Helium is a finite resource and is one of the only elements with escape  velocity, meaning that once released into the atmosphere, it escapes  into space."
<awilkins> When it's gone, all sorts of helium applications will be much more expensive
<bigcalm> This is why we didn't have helium balloons at our wedding :(
<awilkins> Only way we get new helium on earth is through radioactive decay
<awilkins> Trapped in rocks, so natural gas
<awilkins> Even if we manage to crack boron-proton fusion, the amount of helium generated from it would be tiny compared to industrial demands
<TheOpenSourcerer> love it "The vast majority of helium was formed by Big Bang nucleosynthesis one to three minutes after the Big Bang. "
<MartijnVdS> So all we need is to go into space with a big tank, and some kind of helium trap
<bigcalm> That's a long time after
<awilkins> Mmhmm. Only other "realistic" source of helium for us is to mine Jupiter for it I think
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: isn't that mostly hydrogen?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Yeah, as soon as I said it I thought I may well be wrong
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: though.. I don't care either way -- mining Jupiter sounds like an amazing way to give the economy a boost :)
<awilkins> If there is helium in Jupiter or the Sun, it's probably in the middle
<awilkins> So, back to proton-boron fusion and being *really* careful with the stocks we've got
<awilkins> ie - not using it for kiddy balloons
<ali1234> well the other day i saw some thing claiming a space elevator is possible
<ali1234> if that's possible we can just make vacuum airships
<awilkins> Which in this market-driven world, would mean the US ceasing their selloff of their helium reserve, which won't happen because pork.
<awilkins> ali1234, Yeah, even if we can make encapsulated vacuum spheres, there are still many applications for helium
<shauno> why are we worried about jupiter's economy?
<awilkins> It's all based on the giant diamond in the middle
<awilkins> De Beers are going to annex Jupiter to stop it flooding the market and causing a price crash of an almost worthless allotrope of carbon
<neuro> ALL THESE WORLDS
<neuro> ARE YOURS EXCEPT
<neuro> EUROPA
<neuro> ATTEMPT NO LANDING
<neuro> THERE
<neuro> USE THEM TOGETHER
<neuro> USE THEM IN PEACE
<shauno> but europa looks kinda neat :(
<brobostigon> loads of ice,
<shauno> and water.  and oxygen ..
<brobostigon> water contains oxygen,
<shauno> well, atmospheric oxygen.  which is interesting because breathing water has been proven to be bad for your health
<awilkins> Oxygen was one of the original toxic byproducts of metabolism :-)
<awilkins> We think of it as this life-giving thing but we're descended from the life forms that evolved to utilise what the others were releasing as a waste product...
<shauno> that explains dominos pizza :/
<shauno> I'd love to visit europa just to take pictures.  it has a surprisingly tidy orbit, so jupiter should just hang in one place in the sky, constantly.  and that's gotta be worth seeing
<awilkins> I saw someone review Gravity and say that if you loved the idea of space, it would put you off
<davmor2> popey: harsh dude, harsh
<awilkins> It really captured the scary potential for death stuff
<awilkins> And I still love the idea of space
<shauno> the scariest part of Gravity was being confronted with the idea of staring death in the face as a given, and then having to wait half a week for it to arrive.  The space program's history so far has led us to the much more comfortable "so fast you'll never see it coming"
 * popey hugs davmor2 
 * awilkins hears a squeak
 * davmor2 wonders how big popey is if he can hug a gas giant :P
<foobarry> gas giant = johnny vegas?
<shauno> there's still a lot of perfectly boring stuff that space is just begging for though.  eg, I really want to see them put a radiotelescope on the far side of the moon
<ali1234> that plan for a space solar plant with microwave beaming was in the news again the other day
<shauno> the radio blackout that the movies like to overhype would make it the best location "in the world"  (along with the lack of atmosphere, etc)
<awilkins> Imagine a world so prosperous that which of the insanely high-tech energy providers you use is a lifestyle choice...
<awilkins> "Hey, yeah, man, I use the Giant Solar Collector because it's like, eco-friendly, man."
<shauno> I like to imagine the 'oops' when the 'giant solar collector' drifts
<shauno> it seems if we break the win7 upgrade process at work, we get new laptops.  I must figure out how this is done
<MooDoo> shauno: switch it off halfway through ;)
<shauno> that might be doable, it's not too far from home
<shauno> we have some system where on the date they tell you, you leave your machine turned on but logged out when you come home.  and when you arrive the next morning it's all done
<shauno> there's been a few people now where they've arrived to find the screen telling them "tada!", but when it reboots, it's still XP
<shauno> when this happens, a small smurf shows up surprisingly quickly and drops off a 'hp elitebook', and whisks the failed upgrade away
<shauno> I actually have no problems with my currently issued machine, but .. who can say no to new laptops?
<foobarry> what's the command that replaced mkfile?
<foobarry> dd i suppose
<MooDoo> easiest way to make a big file
<foobarry> yeah, i liked mkfile:(
<foobarry> also scp sucks that it copies a file when you leave off the trailing :
<foobarry> scp massivefile bob@otherhost:
<foobarry> leave off colon , you get 2 massive files
<shauno> the command-line has always been very bad at reading minds.  it's suggested you don't leave off the trailing :  ;)
<foobarry> it should error
<foobarry> cos i'm doing scp
<foobarry> why would i scp within my own filesystem?
<shauno> I think it makes more sense than it does as it's told
<shauno> AlanBell: curious, how's the rpi cluster coming along?
<shauno> foobarry: interesting way to create a big file, fallocate -l sizeG filename
<shauno> on mine, dd took about a minute to create a 10G file, fallocate took 0.3 seconds
<shauno> the tradeoff is that it just marks the space as used on the filesystem, it makes no attempts to put anything pretty in the file
<bigcalm> git is confusing me
<bigcalm> A config file in the master branch has a line in it
<bigcalm> The same config file in the test branch lacks that line
<bigcalm> merging the master branch into the test branch results in "already up-to-date"
<bigcalm> I'm really rather confused
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: know anything about Rackspace's backup mounts?
<bigcalm> root@db:~# mount | grep backup
<bigcalm> /dev/xvdb1 on /mnt/backup type ext3 (rw,noatime,_netdev)
<bigcalm> root@db:~# touch /mnt/backup/a
<bigcalm> touch: cannot touch `/mnt/backup/a': Read-only file system
<bigcalm> Doesn't really make much sense to me. Isn't mount saying that it's read/write?
<AlanBell> hi shauno, I have been a bit overtaken by events and stuff from all directions recently, I had problems with a bunch of USB leads I got for it, but I have a new set (less cheap, more cheerful) waiting for me to pick up at the post office
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: no, not yet
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: fair enough :)
<bigcalm> I've raised a ticket
<SuperMatt> also, I'm really very busy so I don't get to pop my head in here
<SuperMatt> cool
<SuperMatt> got number?
<bigcalm> 140228-06035
<SuperMatt> ooh core
<SuperMatt> yup, that's with my team
<bigcalm> It required me to select a device, but the only device I could select is the firewall. So I don't know if it'll get to the right team or not :)
<SuperMatt> well it's come to my team
<SuperMatt> but you might not get a response until 2nd shift take over
<SuperMatt> we've been mega busy
<SuperMatt> but we do want to fanatically support you
<bigcalm> You know I don't expect support in here ;) I only ask in here on the off chance you might know off the top of your head :)
<SuperMatt> imagine this is the face I'm pulling:  11313511       /var/lib/php/session
<SuperMatt> oops
<SuperMatt> http://djwanker.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/54-wee-jimmy.jpg
<bigcalm> Heh
<SuperMatt> this face
 * bigcalm shudders
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: have you always been like that or did RackSpace do it to you?
<SuperMatt> I've always been this way
<SuperMatt> right, I've won most tickets touched today
<SuperMatt> whoop
<daftykins> what a promising looking schoolboy.
<SuperMatt> D:
<SuperMatt> taking it too far now
<bigcalm> Heh
<daftykins> ugh what would be the proper way of running nautilus as root briefly? i was used to "gksudo <appname>" but it seems gksudo isn't even on as default anymore
<daftykins> ah yeah just needs gksu installed
<daftykins> what an odd default 0o
<arsen> hi daftykins  :)
<daftykins> hi sir o/
<daftykins> what's new?
<arsen> ntm! off work today
<daftykins> \o/
<arsen> looking at getting a new dedi server - trying to plan out how im going to spin up all the vhosts and migrate teh dns etc :<
<arsen> dare i say it - contemplating something like ispconfig to make my life easier
<arsen> probably get a quadcore box with 16gig ram and put a hypervisor on it methinks.
<NET||abuse> hi folks, anyone know of a good wireless mouse,, i have a logitech one which has the 2 scroll wheels and other buttons besides, but it doesn't offer middle click by default, i haven't found a good way to add it either, i need my easy window resizing
<bigcalm> NET||abuse: most MS mice are good
<daftykins> fancy fancy!
<arsen> kimsufi got them back on the cheap again!
<daftykins> arsen: giving in going easy :'(
<NET||abuse> i have a grand ol dell out of the box mouse from an office somewhere, it has the basics, but i would love a nice solution for the road, blue tooth or other rf setup, maybe usb charging possibility
<arsen> well - i just have so mcuh to do to migrate, about 9 websites, 4 domains worth of emails etc, smtp/pop/imap/dovecot/postfix etcetc, then al lthe random niche webapps i use :D
<arsen> least i'll get the latest roundcube
<arsen> gotta love linux and being a sysadmin, after years you finally feel like you're getting somewhere and it just takes one "build a simple webserver with a few domains" to remind you - you know nothing :D
<bigcalm> Oh, haven't used roundcube for a while. Has it got a plugin system yet?
<arsen> i believe so - bigcalm !
<arsen> i had a look at the latest version a few weeks ago and it made me jealous :< looks nice.
<arsen> i'm not a fan of gmail so always looking for a decent alternative.
<bigcalm> mailpile.is
<arsen> oooh o_O
<popey> unfinished, python 2.7...
<arsen> any suggestions - popey ?:)
<popey> heh, no
<bigcalm> Outlook!
<arsen> :D
<arsen> my company moved to gmail globally, pita.
<daftykins> i love gapps ;x
<NET||abuse> hmm, trying to launch the portal 2 beta, since it's out now.... wont launch :(
<arsen> hmm i wonder why its py2.7
<arsen> mailpile looks nice though.
<bashrc> yes, although it's only in alpha
<shauno> AlanBell: sounds like fun :)  I was just reminded because I knocked over a stack of sd cards, which has to be quite an odd "and thought of you"
<bigcalm> Yay
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<daftykins> shauno: XD
<daftykins> shauno: was it like 52-card-pick-up ?
<shauno> a lot less than 52, but annoying because I insist on keeping them ordered by size :(
<daftykins> shauno: perhaps you need a till-drawer style arrangement :>
<mapps> afternoon folks
<daftykins> heya
<mapps> cor i slept or longer than planned
<mapps> 8am-5;30
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> lol i was part way through a help with some guy in #ubuntu but he's netsplit now and left with a borked system
<mapps> lol
<mapps> whats happened to it
<daftykins> only a VM though so no biggy
<daftykins> we were just partway through partition resizing
<mapps> aha
<shauno> VMs are awesome. snapshot, guess, restore snapshot, guess again ..
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> i find it funny all this talk of how desktop and laptop sales are dropping daily..and tablets taking over..i couldnt replace my daily life with a tablet only
<mapps> people that use tablets only musnt do anything other than browse/use a few apps imo
<bigcalm> Working nights?
<shauno> we're probably a very biased subset there.  the number of people who could probably replace their PC usage with facebook & skype is properly a lot more terrifying than you'd think
<arsen> i tried having an ipad in place of a laptop
<arsen> sold it at xmas - waiting on a laptop to come out that sparks my interest :p
<mapps> yea that what i mean shauno  they must just use facebook/twitter and the odd email
<mapps> and nver actually do anyhing substantial..clearly no programming
<mapps> no gfx..so just time waste
<shauno> or they just have different ideas of what's "substantial".  my family are spread half way across the planet, so for my mother, skype is a lot more substantial than programming
<mapps> a laptop can do skype tho
<mapps> !
<arsen> twice as heavy though :)
<arsen> id recommend a tablet for my mum, and dad - but not my techy mates..
<shauno> my ipad actually does skype better than my laptop :/  for some reason it turns my laptop into a space heater.  for someone who likes to pace / do laps of the house whilst on the phone, that's a huge battery difference
<shauno> (but then, it's a mac.  looking at it funny turns it into a space heater)
<arsen> interestingly, im waiting on the new mac air
<arsen> i have about 1k to spend for a work laptop atm too and im finding it hard to pick something i like the idea of other than a mac :/
<mapps> hm id lik a mac air but the displays are too small whats the bigegst?
<arsen> 13 atm
<arsen> im concerned thats too big for me :x
<arsen> had 11inch before, i think the new one is due to be 12"
<MooDoo> evening
<daftykins> arsen: if only Sony still made such fine ultras
<daftykins> arsen: probably going to go Lenovo X1 Carbon for the boss chap next!
<daubers> Evening
<MartijnVdS> \o
<arsen> yeah i was looking at that
<arsen> they seem pricey though?
<MartijnVdS> weren't the new lenovos worse than the previous ones?
<arsen> seems like theres some gripes from hardcore oldworld thinkpad fans
<arsen> Â£1500 seems a bit much though
<arsen> it actually makes a macbook air look cheap.
<MartijnVdS> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/raspberry-pi-marks-2nd-birthday-with-plan-for-open-source-graphics-driver/
<arsen> oooh
<arsen> i wub my pi, so helpful having a low power device in the house i can get to remotely :)
<directhex> MartijnVdS, the keyboard on the new x1 carbon is dreadful
<MartijnVdS> directhex: tell daftykins :)
<BigRedS> Is that the one with page-up in place of caps lock or something?
<directhex> yes
<directhex> and no real F keys
<BigRedS> IIRC the photo on the lenovo site doesn't have those
<BigRedS> is it not an option or something?
<directhex> nope. the only keyboard on the 2014 x1 carbon
<directhex> http://www.lenovo.com/images/gallery/1060x596/lenovo-laptop-thinkpad-x1-carbon-2-keyboard-3.jpg
<daftykins> directhex: have you got one?
<daftykins> also that's a US keyboard so meh
<daftykins> oh lawd what are home and end doing there! XD
<ali1234> !gksu
<lubotu3> If you need to run graphical applications as root, use Â« gksudo Â», as it will set up the environment more appropriately. Never just use "sudo"! (See http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/graphicalsudo to know why)
<ali1234> this factoid needs updating
<daftykins> what's the deal with that then?
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/284306/why-is-gksu-no-longer-installed-by-default
<directhex> daftykins, i haven't had the budget to try any 2014 models
<daftykins> directhex: they seem to be the only mobile broadband laptops of a decent size and quality for my client
<daftykins> i'm not aware of any others
<shauno> meh @ home/end, I don't use them .. I'd be more worried about how ~ got *there*
<daftykins> US layout so not easy to comment i think
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9no8i334jemxaxv/IMG-20140228-WA0003.jpg
<daftykins> that's my Friday night sorted.
<shauno> putting ~ with right-ctrl makes no sense on any layout
<daftykins> them and their silly elongated right-shift and single height enter
<daftykins> *shakes fist*
<MartijnVdS> "But our designer said this layout had better feng-shui properties"
<daftykins> ali1234: pretty horrific move :( no more assisting new users in #ubuntu with graphical file management, ho-hum
<arsen> whattt where's the F keys?!
<daftykins> it's an LCD display that cycles through different modes
<daftykins> you keep hitting the far left to cycle through
<arsen> eugh
<arsen> sounds terrible
<arsen> i use F keys for everything :<
<daftykins> *shrug* no Windows clients i know likely use any one
<arsen> i need to buy something portable for work for sysadmin duties and travel
<arsen> and later in the year im gona get the new Air if apple dont ruin it.
<MartijnVdS> arsen: xps13
<shauno> I stopped using F-keys on windows when Lotus decided that F5 would be instaquit.
<arsen> i cant help be drawn to ultrabooks for weight/battery
<MartijnVdS> shauno: "boss key" 8-)
<shauno> I mean Lotus Notes lol .. of all things shouldn't have a boss key
<shauno> it should have a "hurt anyone who thinks that Lotus is a good idea" key :|
<daftykins> that could be tough to implement
<arsen> http://www.dell.com/uk/p/xps-13-9333/pd?c=uk&cs=ukdhs1&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn  - this one? :o
<daftykins> need some kind of roaming robot with a stabby/pokey weapon...
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I think it might be similar to http://bash.org/?4281
<daftykins> aww no diddledan
<MartijnVdS> whoa.. google results look all funky
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: indeed!
<shauno> daftykins: as long as only IBM sells said robot, I think they'd be game for it
<arsen> is the xps 13 the one that's happy running ubuntu?:o
<shauno> odd question; if google own motorola, why do moto phones still require root/cyanogenmod to restore features available in stock android?
<daftykins> didn't Lenovo just buy motorola's mobile arm?
<arsen> owned. own doesnt mean -is the same as-
<shauno> I'd assume owned means 'gets a decent say in the matter'
<shauno> trying to find a phone for a friend, and just think it's a little strange that we keep coming back to cyanogenmod; apparently broken-out-of-the-box is normal.  kinda disappointing
<MartijnVdS> shauno: get a nexus ;)
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> shauno: does it need to be budget?
<daftykins> i've heard good things about the low-end moto G2 i think it is?
<shauno> ideally, cheaper than an iphone, else buying a broken phone when she could have got a working one seems stupid
<daftykins> well iPhones don't really have a cost given people are all contract slaves up there eh? :)
<shauno> tried the moto-G, it's on the list of "if we have to give up and root it"
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> Nexus 5 it is then
<shauno> hm, it does appear to have all its locales intact
<shauno> oh, last question, honestly; motorola claim cyanogenmod invalidates your warranty; is this enforceable in the EU?
<daftykins> pass
<shauno> (I'm trying not to sound like a rant, just never thought getting a full set of locales would be a minefield)
<daftykins> i'm not even sure what that means?
<daftykins> input languages?
<shauno> exactly
<shauno> eg, the UK firmware for the moto-G ships 15 languages, the 'global' firmware ships 4
<shauno> hazrpg pointed me to somewhere you can download the google keyboard (?) which claims 25, but doesn't list them
<daftykins> ah
<shauno> I'm assuming 'global' means 'south america' and there's other options I haven't discovered yet
<shauno> but I'm trying to avoid a situation where we buy a phone on the grounds that it "might work"
<shauno> mostly, it's just very confusing coming from the land of "you want options?  pick a colour!"
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Nexus 5. comes with something like 30 languages?
<shauno> yeah, this one's starting to look like more of an option.  wasn't initially aware that half the price meant half the firmware
<shauno> and it seems I can get that one here now, which is a plus
<daftykins> yeah Google even let Guernsey buy devices now!
<daftykins> can't get VAT back mind.
<shauno> lol, you and your VAT ..
<daftykins> shauno: ;D
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> heyup
<arc__> hi everyone
<arc__> i have a Q that need a A where is the apache www files kept ?
<arc__> i tryed /usr/local/src/apache_xxxxx but not luck
<shauno> I'm not clear what you're looking for?
<daftykins> the web root?
<shauno> you should find everything in /var/ww and /etc/apache, but asking about /usr/local/src makes me think the question's not as clear as it seems
<shauno> er, /var/www
<xarc_> sorry about that
<xarc_> am i asking in the wrong place i have not been on the irc since long ago :)
<xarc_> maybe i will try later not at 23:40
<xarc_> thank you, all good work
<shauno> downside of humble bundles linking straight to steam .. I no longer have any idea what most the stuff in my steam library is
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i kinda need to unsubscribe from humble
<shauno> 11 wasn't bad, I don't think I had any dupes
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-01
<daftykins> i've only bought two - didn't really touch much of the first except Darwinia
<shauno> darwinia was neat
<shauno> most the introversion games are.  I think uplink was the first software I ever bought just because it had linux compatibility on the box
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i remember seeing a housemate play some
<daftykins> with the gigaquad modems or something, heh
<arsen> like the look of this xps13 ultrabook - not bad
<arsen> tad pricey
<daftykins> i'm not convinced battery life would be good
<arsen> who knows
<arsen> frankly the laptop market is a mess - too many choices, no clear winners, i still find it hard to think anything is better than a mac - and ironically nowadays macs seem good VFM
<daftykins> Dell!
<daftykins> :D
<arsen> what hope do we have!
<daftykins> i have a US mate who shopped around for ages then gave in and went MBP, ja
<daftykins> i got a nice Lenovo for the boss' kid the other day
<daftykins> i may've mentioned? not sure
<daftykins> but yeah you really need to drop closer to a grand to get it all i think
<daftykins> i'd be prepared to buy something good with bad storage then put in my own SSD, but meh
<arsen> yep thatd be fine
<arsen> but SSDs are pretty common now sadly
<arsen> i even have one in my desktop!
<arsen> im starting to get annoyed with windows on my gaming PC - but until steam gets games upto scratch in steamos/linux i cant really flip
<daftykins> why would commonality be sad?
<shauno> I'm the other way around there .. I want to put together a htpc, but steamos has added a chunk to the requirements
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i still see PC gaming as at a desk and console gaming on my TV
<arsen> as in - its hard to find bargains with non-SSD where its cheap to put the SSD in than buy with already installed :p
<daftykins> sadly most of my mates still play on consoles only
<daftykins> arsen: ah yes
<arsen> pah  - we all still game 'properly' ;)
<daftykins> 'tis either paltry unknown model 128GB or a 500GB-1TB with 8GB NAND SSHD
<arsen> i have the cruical SSD that was on a deal for black friday.
<arsen> got a super nice intel one at work sat in a drawer never being used - a measely 32gig hah
<arsen> definitely gona find itself as my steamOS console OS disk ;)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> i have the 40GB V-series intel in my HTPC
<shauno> I want a new ssd :/  128GB is starting to feel a tad tight
<daftykins> OS only?
<shauno> kinda everything.  I symlink to rust selectively
<arsen> ooh free upgrade to 100meg this year :D
<shauno> putting home on hdd seems a bit daft, it gets accessed more than the OS does
<arsen> right on that happy note - time to watch some TV in bed.
<daftykins> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/b4f29be1fa739ac22496c36c846024e4.html
<daftykins> look at my tubes
<daftykins> packet loss at every one of those red lines
<arsen> :D
<daftykins> 'tis muchly odd
<daftykins> arsen: us rockdwellers have 40/5 for Â£35/mo now! D:
<arsen> see if aaisp will service your small island :p
<arsen> wow - they've been laying pipes!
<daftykins> ?
<daftykins> oh given my service?
<arsen> errrrrrrrr ? :p
<daftykins> i don't think infrastructure has ever been that bad, in terms of off-island connectivity
<arsen> AAISP = good ISP, i assume you wont be able to get their service but you'd be a fan.
<arsen> i thought you guys had suffered for a while
<daftykins> i mean what's the 'laying pipes' bit about?
<daftykins> yeah the french link seemed to do a lot
<arsen> or was it just .. expensive?
<daftykins> well they pretty rapidly kept doubling everyone's speeds
<daftykins> half megabit to 1, to 2, to 4, to 8, to 16
<daftykins> i was disappointed they didn't implement packages
<arsen> arh. gothca.
<arsen> okay must dash before she gets angry.
<arsen> tara :)
<daftykins> o/
<mapps> O_o
<foobarry> http://highscalability.com/blog/2014/2/26/the-whatsapp-architecture-facebook-bought-for-19-billion.html good techie POV
<foobarry> One of the few but lingering complaints about the Raspberry Pi is that it relies on a proprietary GPU blob for communication between the graphics drivers and the hardware. Today, Broadcom released the full source for the OpenGL ES 1.1 and 2.0 driver stack for the Broadcom VideoCore IV 3D graphics subsystem running on one of its popular cellphone systems-on-a-chip
<foobarry> The SoC in question is similar to the one used on the Raspberry Pi, and Eben Upton says making a port should be 'relatively straightforward.
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> two years ago they were saying "the source and documentation is so complicated that it would take a team of hundreds of engineers years to understand it"
<foobarry> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/6299
<ali1234> and "there is no way any of it would be of any possible use to anyone because it is so complicated"
<foobarry> are they quotes from the broadcom employee? :P
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> i'm looking for them now
<foobarry> politics innit
<ali1234> hae they actually released any code that runs on the main core?
<ali1234> or any documentation for it?
<ali1234> or is this just source for yet-another shim?
<foobarry> its in the link ^^
<ali1234> yeah i';m too lazy to read it
<foobarry> Earlier today, Broadcom announced the release of full documentation for the VideoCore IV graphics core, and a complete source release of the graphics stack under a 3-clause BSD license. The source release targets the BCM21553 cellphone chip, but it should be reasonably straightforward to port this to the BCM2835, allowing access to the graphics core without using the blob
<ali1234> that doesn't actually answer my question
<ali1234> *which* blob?
<ali1234> the raspberry pi is currently unusable without several
<foobarry> there's a bit of discussion about that
<foobarry> on http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2221
<ali1234> "The instruction set of the GPU would give away how a lot of the speed is  achieved if it were published, and since no-one (outside Broadcom)  has  access to the compiler and assembler (they are commercial and cost a  lot of money), there seems little point in publishing it anyway. And to  be honest, the only people who really understand some of the more  esoteric instruction sets of some of the more esoteric cores on the chip  are the people who desig
<foobarry> some people take your line: "I guarantee you that the shader compiler is not written in VHDL. The driver, the thing that controls the hw, is in the ?firmware? blob. There is nothing ?driver? about the RPC shim code that was released."
<ali1234> yep
<ali1234> that is well know
<ali1234> you can disassemble their blob and find the function which is labelled "shader_compiler"
<ali1234> but you can't disassemble it because the GPU core uses an undocumented proprietary instruction set
<foobarry> others say at least make it possible to provide the necessary Wayland EGL support for hardware compositing.
<ali1234> (which has already been mostly reverse-engineered by the way)
<ali1234> btw what you just linked is 18 months old
<MartijnVdS> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/6299#comments
<MartijnVdS> that's the newest announcement
<foobarry> argh
<ali1234> i'm just trapped in a maze of press eleases
<MartijnVdS> all different?
<ali1234> where is the actual source code and documentation?
<ali1234> all alike
<MartijnVdS> I had a PDF earlier
<foobarry> thats why the link said "ur existing open-source graphics drivers are a thin shim running on the ARM11,"
<ali1234> hmm ... we have an architecture reference guide
<ali1234> it's 111 pages... that's tiny
<MartijnVdS> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/raspberry-pi-marks-2nd-birthday-with-plan-for-open-source-graphics-driver/ has links
<foobarry> http://www.broadcom.com/support/
<foobarry> http://www.broadcom.com/docs/support/videocore/Brcm_Android_ICS_Graphics_Stack.tar.gz
<ali1234> "Nobody needs direct access to the GPU except the people who are *able*  to write code for it, and that is very few people indeed. And there is  no need for access to the GPU blob in order to maintain compatibility  with the Linux ABI. That's the job of the low level drivers on the Arm  side."
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: who says that?
<ali1234> a broadcom employee, on the raspberry pi forum
<MartijnVdS> when?
<ali1234> 2011
<MartijnVdS> Just broadcom being broadcom then
<MartijnVdS> they're the same with wifi chips
<MartijnVdS> very similar to nvidia imho.
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> don't believe they are doing this out of the goodness of their heart
<ali1234> they're doing it because the videocore is a security nightmare
<ali1234> doesn't look like this contains the source of the bootloader
<MartijnVdS> that's next, once they stop selling that chip to anyone but RPi foundation
<ali1234> the documentation doesn't describe how to write a bootloader either
<ali1234> so you still can't boot the thing without their proprietary watchdog OS
<foobarry> what do you guys use for dedrm calibre?
<MartijnVdS> nothing
<foobarry> seems...not very straightforward on linux
<foobarry> and wine/windowsy
<foobarry> i have a kobo and need to read books purchased from amazon :S
<MartijnVdS> why do you buy books from Amazon if you have a kobo?
<MartijnVdS> Or, why buy a kobo if you have Amazon books?
<foobarry> books from amazon are usually best value and i regularly take advantage of their 99p books
<foobarry> and i often have amazon vouchers
<MartijnVdS> .. so you bought a Kindle
<foobarry> i don't wnt to be locked in to kindle for the rest of my life
<foobarry> and the kobo was Â£30
<foobarry> its straightforward if you have the kindle PIN but if your books are on kindle for pc or kindle cloud its a pain
<diddledan> mornin
<shauno> o/
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> `\o/'
<diddledan> argh
<diddledan> broken hand by the looks
<MartijnVdS> or wrist
<shauno> or maybe he's just suuuuuper excited to see you
<diddledan> why's there a kitty in the topic?!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: because it's cute!
<diddledan> that's hardly ubuntu-related, though :-p
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<DJones> Hurry up delivery man
<DJones> Patience is not my strong point when waiting for new toys
<popey> DJones: what you waiting for?
<DJones> popey: New laptop
<DJones> Lenovo Y510p
 * popey googles
<DJones> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Y510p-15-6-inch-Notebook-Processor/dp/B00FSBFBD2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393351633&sr=8-1&keywords=y510p
<popey> golly
<DJones> Seems like a cracking price for the specification
<DJones> Wanted a new laptop with 1920*1080 display at 15.6", that was the best spec'd without going up to Â£1K
<DJones> Even if you go up to 16Gb ram with a 8Gb SSD cache, you can still find them below 1K
<popey> nice
<DJones> It'll make an interesting test for Trusty
<popey> yeah â»
<DJones> Thats after the obligatory 24 hrs creating windows recovery media & updating everything on the windows side
<diddledan> one think I really hate about modern laptops is the idiocy of putting the trackpad on the left
<MartijnVdS> it's great!
<MartijnVdS> <- left-handed
<diddledan> my hand goes to the center of the lappy when hunting for the damned trackpad
<popey> \o/ trackpint
<popey> *point
<popey> although pints are fine too
<diddledan> so I end up completely missing the thing
 * DJones tracks popey's pint, table to mouth ... and back
<diddledan> DJones: GPS?
<diddledan> +XRay?
<DJones> diddledan: Yeah, sort of, although the gps tracker might be in his hand rather than on the glass
 * diddledan irradiates popey 
<DJones> Hmmh, Sainsbury's delivery van isn't delivering a laptop
<diddledan> o_O
<DJones> Does this look a safe way to install Trust for dualboot with Win 8 http://paste.ubuntu.com/7015434/
<DJones> Or are there any quirks/better methods with trusty
<popey> I'd point to directhex
<DJones> Ta, will bug him later then
<directhex> i don't get the boot repair bit
<directhex> or the disable SB bit
<diddledan> secureboot shouldn't be an issue anymore?
<diddledan> I thought I read that we got a certificate from MS for the bootloader?
<DJones> diddledan: So just turn off fast boot, install & bob's your uncle ?
<directhex> just make sure /boot is plenty big
<directhex> needs to be ~3x bigger than without SB
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> I wasn't aware of that
<directhex> well, you need space for your kernel, and initrd
<directhex> and signed kernel, and signed initrd
<directhex> and temp space for creation of signed initrd
<DJones> I wouldn't specify a partition for /boot, will just go with the typical /, /swap & /home, maybe 100Gb for / and 400Gb for /home, thats probably way over the top for / but will be plenty of space anyway
<directhex> that's probably true if you aren't using encrypted /
<directhex> which we do
<ali1234> why does it need to be bigger *without* SB?
<ali1234> wait never mind i misread
<directhex> wife's PC is boned /o\
<DJones> Repairable?
<diddledan> I hope you're not a teenager ("I totally boned that")
<diddledan> referring to a female usually
<DJones> Hopefully not in the Trigger's broom style of repair
<foobarry> finally able to read my own books. now to replicate on linux
<diddledan> I love how such a throwaway thing has entered public consciousness as a simile
<directhex> ask not for whom the bone bones. it bones for thee
<directhex> DJones, still diagnosing. might just be RAM, might be much worse than that
<directhex> (cpu or mobo)
<foobarry> http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/28/5457160/fortress-investment-group-reports-a-3-7-million-loss-on-bitcoin
<foobarry> stifles a lol
<ali1234> RBS lost Â£47 billion
<ali1234> they're only worth Â£58 billion
<directhex> 57243 errors in first pass
<directhex> looks like a lot of 1-bit errors
<directhex> e.g. Expected: 00000000 Actual: 00000100
<diddledan> ali1234: hence why it required the public to buy them to keep them afloat
<ali1234> diddledan: no, they lost *another* Â£47 billion
<diddledan> oh god
<diddledan> that's seriously impressive then
<diddledan> thank god they're not owned by the public then >.<
<ali1234> actually that might not be totally accurate
<ali1234> this is losses since the bailout
<diddledan> it doesn't matter if they make a loss. they're officially a government department now which means it's a requisite
<ali1234> i don't know if that means it includes the losses that required bailing out in the first place
<diddledan> I should think there's some sort of explanation going on akin to those of yes minister
<ali1234> they announced a loss of Â£28 billion on the same day as the bailout was announced
<ali1234> so i'm still none the wise
<ali1234> r
<ali1234> ah, it's including the original loss
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<ali1234> i'm guessing now all that money is gone, the government shares will be sold at a loss and they will magically start being profitable again
 * popey plays portal 2
<bigcalm> Is it on Linux now?
<popey> ya
<popey> beta
<bigcalm> \o/
 * bigcalm runs to steam
<bigcalm> "You do not have enough disk space available to run this game."
<bigcalm> Arse
<ali1234> hmm... i need to get a new hard drive
 * bigcalm deletes everything
<ali1234> 1TB is now < Â£50
<popey> 480GB SSDs are becoming reasonable now
<ali1234> in fact 2TB are so cheap it's not even worth buying 1TB
<foobarry> my son has a cd of the most hidoues songs ever made
<foobarry> and keeps playing it
<DJones> diddledan: foobarry Now Thats What I call (Aweful) Music 27 ?
<DJones> - diddledan
<foobarry> kfc pizza hut, steps, cotton eye joe
<foobarry> oo aa walla walla bing bang
<foobarry> star trekkin (worst song ever)
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> How dare you
<bigcalm> Best song ever
<foobarry> they have to repeat every line 3 times, it kills me
<foobarry> he used to have good taste
 * bigcalm finds a 4.8GB backup left over from the last SSD swap. That can go
<foobarry> follow the leader A|ARRGH
<bigcalm> How old is he?
<foobarry> 4
<foobarry> he used to like the beatles, adele and sufjan stevens
<ali1234> i'm still waiting for someone to make a kim dotcom/michael buble mashup called dotcom buble
<foobarry> he's been choosing cds on the stereo since he was able to stnad
<foobarry> he's like, folder 5, track 15, daddy likes that one
<foobarry> walking jukebox
<bigcalm> Heh
<foobarry> blue cd track 6
<bigcalm> Blue, the group?
<foobarry> no..just a blue coloured one
<foobarry> can't believe the time i spent on this ebook problem the other night
<foobarry> now it works
<foobarry> should really write it down for next tiem
<bigcalm> Portal 2 won't load for me :(
<bigcalm> Game update: AppID 620 "Portal 2 (Beta)", ProcID 5177, IP 0.0.0.0:0
<bigcalm> ERROR: ld.so: object '/home/iain/.local/share/Steam/ubuntu12_32/gameoverlayrenderer.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
<bigcalm> /bin/sh: 1: /home/iain/.local/share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Portal 2/portal2.sh: not found
<diddledan> does that sh file exist?
<foobarry> do kindles have micro sd slots?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> no
<bigcalm> Not the one I sold to my mum
<foobarry> my Â£30 kobo does..handy
<bigcalm> diddledan: the file exists
<diddledan> try running it manually?
<penguin42> bigcalm: If it's a shell script, does it have a #! at the top and does the path in that exist?
<bigcalm> penguin42: /bin/bash and yet
<bigcalm> yes
<bigcalm> Ah, looks to be a line ending problem
<bigcalm> Damn windows people
<bigcalm> bash: .local/share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Portal 2/portal2.sh: /bin/bash^M: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
<popey> well, portal2 works perfectly here. nice work valve
<penguin42> bigcalm: You didn't download the file on windows and transfer it to Linux did you?
<bigcalm> penguin42: no, I used linux steam
 * bigcalm goes to try it on the new laptop
<foobarry> strange, calibre thinks that kobo doesn't understand mobi format and isnists on converting them to epub
<foobarry> but it does
<ali1234> calibre is terrible
<penguin42> bigcalm: It sounds like it's gone through a cr/lf conversion one time too many doesn't it - I wonder where that happened
<bigcalm> penguin42: I ran fromdos on the launcher and then hit another error:
<bigcalm> iain@snafu2:~$ .local/share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Portal\ 2/portal2.sh
<bigcalm> .local/share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Portal 2/portal2.sh: line 40: /home/iain/.local/share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Portal 2/: Is a directory
<bigcalm> So I've given up on this system and currently downloading on my laptop
<penguin42> bigcalm: The thing is if it screwed one file up it's unlikely it's the only screwed up file
<bigcalm> True
 * bigcalm consoles himself with a banana
<foobarry> calibre installer: sudo -v && wget -nv -O- https://github.com/kovidgoyal/calibre/raw/master/setup/linux-installer.py | sudo python -c "import sys; main=lambda:sys.stderr.write('Download failed\n'); exec(sys.stdin.read()); main()"
<foobarry> yuck!
<foobarry> meanwhile ubuntu has really old version in repos
<diddledan> isn't calibre the one that ships with a "helper" script that allows anybody to do anything with any /dev device?
<foobarry> :(
<diddledan> http://lwn.net/Articles/465311/
<foobarry> scared to click
<foobarry> i clicked
<foobarry> the mobi thing is fixable but strange since mobi support has been there since forever
<diddledan> looks like the ubuntu package has a replacement script - any it's not so much any /dev device but more any filesystem via mount
<Laney> 'really old' being 1.25 when 1.26 came out yesterday
<foobarry> i'm on 12.04
<foobarry> maybe thats whats really old :)
<foobarry> 0.86
<foobarry> i have 1.26 now
<Laney> 12.04 in having apps that came out before 2012/04 shocker :P
<foobarry> and no ppa :(
<foobarry> i can upgrade soon :D
<foobarry> if 14.04 is same or better performance :D
<bigcalm> penguin42: same error trying to run Portal 2 on my laptop
<bigcalm> I give up
<foobarry> so you choose small icons for calibre but the 2nd row of icons remains :(
<foobarry> wow i only just discovered grid/civer view in calibre
<foobarry> suddenly it looks nicer
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/Hr0dhDH.png
<foobarry> taken me 3 years to find that
<popey> are they all books you've stripped drm from?
<popey> I mean, its nice because it shows lots of metadata and covers etc
<directhex> results are in, it's bad RAM
<isleofmandan> Hi folks. Should a 'sudo do-release-upgrade -d' take my 13.10 laptop to the 14.04 beta. It seems to try but fails. Is that not supported in the beta releases?
<AlanBell> isleofmandan: yes it should work
<MartijnVdS> isleofmandan: what's the error?
<AlanBell> however there isn't much 14.04 branding in place yet
<isleofmandan> "Unable to determine the upgrade"
<isleofmandan> I think it's looking for non-existent mirrors
<isleofmandan> lots of lines that start Err:
<AlanBell> oh yes, I moved to the main mirrors to get mine working rather than the gb ones
<isleofmandan> Mine's looking for Isle of Man ones. Even less likely to exist!
<AlanBell> 404 island not found
<AlanBell> so in software sources you can change it to look to the main mirrors
<AlanBell> actually, of all the places in the world, the Isle of Man mirrors would be at the top of my list of places I might expect stuff to just work ;)
<isleofmandan> I know.. I actually the the im.ubuntu stuff is just a microserer in a cupboard under Mark's stairs ;)
<isleofmandan> actually think....
<AlanBell> he mentioned being told off for having too many servers in the garage at one point I think
<isleofmandan> :)
<isleofmandan> Seems to be downloading more stuff now I've moved to the main mirror
<isleofmandan> but still no go.  Oh well.  I'll wait until it's properly cooked  ;)   Not that many changes from 13.10 anyway, from what I've been reading?
<AlanBell> isleofmandan: locally integrated menus \o/
<AlanBell> no more crazy apple style global menu thing
<isleofmandan> Ah. Does that mean Libre Office works properly now? :)
<AlanBell> yes, no menu oddness in LO that I have seen
<isleofmandan> Hurrah. Worth the upgrade just for that then.
<shauno> lol, that wasn't apple-style, that was "styled by someone who once saw a screenshot"
<AlanBell> mousewheel over launcher icons has got slightly worse
<AlanBell> shauno: ah, I have only seen a screenshot so, I thought it was apple style
<AlanBell> I did use an apple a couple of times, but that was before they had colour screens
<AlanBell> global menu was annoying then too
<AlanBell> as was putting a floppy in the trash to eject it, because there was no eject button
<isleofmandan> Global menus are always in the same place though! Fine if you're using a mouse, but a real PITA on a small touchpad on a laptop - it's a long way to the top left of the screen ;)
<AlanBell> and everyone who spent more than 15 minutes trying to get their coursework floppy back out from a mac in 1992 can celibrate bug 764905
<lubotu3> bug 764905 in Ayatana Design "Drag and drop a USB key into the trash should eject the USB key" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764905
<isleofmandan> It's funny what you get used to. I struggled with Unity when it was released. Took me a while to drive it properly. Now whenever I try other desktops, I always come back to using Unity!
<AlanBell> after alt-tab got mostly fixed I stuck with unity, I was oscilating between unity and gnome-shell for some time
<AlanBell> global menu I never really got used to
<AlanBell> locally integrated menus I love instantly
<AlanBell> I like the window handling, the compiz grid stuff
<isleofmandan> Yes, Alt-Tab breakage was frustrating. I've a funny feeling I'll switch back to local menus too. I think only long-term Mac users would prefer global over local.
<AlanBell> launcher is a bit of an acquired taste, now that right click shows a window list I like it more
<shauno> they taught us to type on those old monochrome macs.  I coudn't stand them.  the drive made it look like it was a little face smirking at you
<shauno> and now they're worth a few bob.  weird world
<isleofmandan> I've seen screenshots where the launcher collapses, to show only open applications. Mine doesn't do that, so I'm always scrolling up and down to find my open windows....
<AlanBell> scroll wheel on launcher icons doesn't currently move the z-order of the windows correctly, I keep meaning to video that but I am struggling to get audio and video happening at the same time on screencasts at the moment
<isleofmandan> shauno: I doubt they'd be worth much if the 'cult of the shiny' hadn't evolved in recent years.
<AlanBell> yeah, I occasionally remove stuff from the launcher to have more running things in view
<AlanBell> trouble is that when you remove things from the launcher you know you will have to find them again one day in the dash
<isleofmandan> I have very little on my launcher. Hitting the super key and typing a few letters work very well for me.
<AlanBell> looks like the filters have completely gone from the dash now
<isleofmandan> Think I'll download the .iso and have a look. I try to get onto the beta track so that a) I can do my bit and file bug reports, and b) Get a heads-up on new features so I can answer questions from the people on the island I persuaded to run Ubuntu full-time!
<DJones> urg, 500mb of updates to go
<jussi> only? :P
<DJones> well, first pass for Windows
<DJones> Probably a 2nd lot of 500mb still to come
<jussi> oh windows. thatll take about 3 hours to install, then, no ?
<jussi> :P
<jussi> seriously, I hate those windows updates at shutdown. no idea if they stopped doing it, but it was still present on 7 last time i checked
<daubers> Weeeeeeee
<daubers> Got the eeepc running again
<foobarry> popey: yes most are azw loaded from kindle for PC, and converted in calibre
<isleofmandan> daubers: Which eeepc model?
<daubers> isleofmandan: 701
<foobarry> the default calibre view is more ugly but i discovered icons in the bottom corner i didn't know were there, to hide ugly and show covers
<daubers> Just running debian in cli only :)
<isleofmandan> daubers: Ah the original. I had one for quite a while. Nice idea.
<daubers> isleofmandan: This one was originally popeys
<daubers> Surprised how well it
<daubers> s lasted tbh
<isleofmandan> daubers: Mine was donated to my sister's kids. I don't know what happened after that, but they're all on Nexus 7 tablets now.
<daubers> heh :)
 * foobarry notices directhex getting quoted on lwn.net
<foobarry> re: the engimail article
<foobarry> anyone worked out how to get the weekly lwn.net bigpage delivered to e-reader?
<foobarry> ah, lwn.net/free/bigpage or lwn.net/current/bigpage
<DJones> Ah well, thats better than anticipated, just under an hour to update windows 8 & install win 8.1
<directhex> only an hour?
<directhex> i've been trying to get a decent install of windows 8.1 since yesterday evening
<directhex> with 6 hours' break for sleep, 2 for food, and 1 for tesco
<bigcalm> directhex: have you got portal 2 running in linux yet?
<directhex> yes
<bigcalm> Install and run or with some extra magic?
<directhex> opt into the public beta, via the betas tab in properties
<bigcalm> Done that
<bigcalm> But only after downloading in steam
<bigcalm> Don't really want to re-download the 6gb
<directhex> it's a 60MB difference
<directhex> also you might need to manually fix up the audio if you did it that way round
<directhex> rename libmiles.so to libMiles.so
<bigcalm> Most odd. It hasn't downloaded anything extra
 * bigcalm drifts towards deleting local content
<Laney> wine1.6 done broke my YNAB
<popey> bigcalm: i didnt have to re-download anything, just opt in and it was all good
<brobostigon> found an interesting new app, ncdu, an ncurses hdd space analyser.
<hazrpg> \o
<DJones> directhex: Yeah, surprised me, what I haven't managed yet is to create the recovery media though
<Laney> come on 1.7
<Laney> you can save me
<Laney> yay!
<directhex> ynab?
<Laney> budgeting program
<popey> MartijnVdS: banished any good?
<directhex> oh, that's on steam
<JorgeMariel_> somebody can help me?
<JorgeMariel_> i did this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/306412/how-can-i-setup-my-touchpad-multi-finger-tapping-functionality/428066#428066
<JorgeMariel_> and now my ubuntu doesnt start
<DJones> ok, I'm impressed, after all the horror stories about windows 8 & dual booting, 14.04 installed without a hitch
<penguin42> DJones: On an EFI machine or BIOS?
<DJones> penguin42: EFI with secureboot turned off
<penguin42> that's cheating :-)
<DJones> Works for me :)
<daftykins> XD
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-02
<Hornet> bloody thing
<Hornet> anyone tried to install ubuntu server from a usb stick?
<Hornet> no luck whatever I do
<Hornet> let's try yet again with unetbootin this time...
<Hornet> both pendrive linux and linuxlive won't work with server, latter did with desktop ubu
<Hornet> only have one stick so can't keep messing around with isos constantly either
<Hornet> takes ages to reset
<Hornet> nor can I boot into desktop, then create a server usb from there
<Hornet> won't have it
<Hornet> unetbootin is whiting out, looks like its installing at a rate of a meg a minute
<Hornet> this is going to take a bloody yea
<Hornet> r
<Hornet> sigh
<mapps> hey
<Hornet> aloha
<mapps> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<marxjohnson> Any Lovefilm/Amazon Prime subscribers had any luck getting Amazon Instant Video working with Silverlight?
<marxjohnson> I just get "Service Error (1002)" when I try to load a video
<marxjohnson> s/Silverlight/Pipelight
<popey> marxjohnson: i had it working once, then it broke, i fettled with various things like the user agent string and couldn' make it work again (this was netflix, but similar)
<marxjohnson> popey: Hmm. I've had Lovefilm Instant working fine up to now with Pipelight and a Windows user agent (occasionally had to reinstall pipelight when they updated something), but no joy at all with Amazon yet
<marxjohnson> It doesn't block me entirely, so it accepts the user agent, just fails at actually loading a video
<foobarry> lol @ piersmorgan
<foobarry> whats the ultimate image switch to do between PM and jez clarkson
<foobarry> Hornet: i dd'ed an image last week to usb for ubunt server
<BigRedS> Hornet what happens when it doesn't work?
 * jussi installs ubuntu touch to see how progress is going...
<foobarry> just tried using the overdrive plugin for calibre and my local library. hope i didn't just accidentally check out a load of books :S
<foobarry> an excess of "for dummies" and a lack of "oreilly"
<popey> Afternoon
<nigelb> Hello popey
<DJones> Afternoon
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> how goes it?
<DJones> Not bad, just back from a christening
<DJones> Now to get on with something useful and try to work out how to add nvidia on this laptop
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> optimus tech is it?
<DJones> I assume so, not described as optimus, but it has both builtin intel and an nvidia 750
<DJones> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 06)
<DJones> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GK107M [GeForce GT 750M] (rev a1)
<daftykins> yeah that'll be it
<daftykins> nvidia prime for you then i guess :)
<DJones> Thats what I thought
<DJones> I found a webpage with instructions last night, just trying to find it again
<DJones> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/HybridGraphics Seems right
<DJones> bigcalm: How did you get on with installing nvidia on your new laptop? Is that optimus or just straight nvidia
<daftykins> you put 14.04 on, yeah?
<DJones> Yep
<daftykins> i think it's meant to be a lot easier to get prime going on that
<DJones> Number 4 on here seems hopefull http://www.webupd8.org/2013/10/8-things-to-do-after-installing-ubuntu.html
<daftykins> looking good :>
<daftykins> there may be newer than the 319 driver by now 0o not sure if it's supported with prime though
<DJones> 60FPS with the intel driver runnning in glxgears
<daftykins> sounds vsync capped 0o
<DJones> Ah well, built and installed
<DJones> Time to reboot
<DJones> See you on the other side (hopefully)
<DJones> Ah well, rebooted ok
<DJones> WTH..... 18038 FPS with nvidia
<bigcalm> DJones: things have settled down. Have been playing Portal 2 with the intel drivers without problem :)
<DJones> Right, nvidia seems to have installed without any issues at all
<DJones> Just going to try minecraft
<bigcalm> DJones: be careful with putting the laptop into sleep while running from the nvidia drivers
<DJones> Might even consider installing steam now
<bigcalm> You might want to look at using profiles in x-settings
<bigcalm> DJones: run intel for every day use and then switch to nvidia when you want to do something graphics intensive
<DJones> How do you switch between intel & nvidia
<bigcalm> Via profiles in x-settings
<DJones> minecraft is really smooth
<DJones> Ta
<bigcalm> I have to go for tea now. davmor2 will be able to help more :D
<DJones> Great thanks, missed that just having a quick glance
<DJones> Thanks for the tips
<DJones> I guess I should make the effort to copy my user data off my old laptop now
<Azelphur> Accidentally washed USB stick...still works \o/
<penguin42> nice clean bits?
<Azelphur> indeed \o/
<hazrpg> Azelphur: \o/
<daftykins> Azelphur: did you use flash detergent? \o/
<Azelphur> haha, bold I think xD
<penguin42> Azelphur: Well that's 2-in-1 - perfect for data
<Azelphur> hehe
<DJones> ow do I stop alt-t when running irssi through ssh from terminal grabbing catching the Terminal menu, rather than changing irssi channel
<DJones> s/ow/How/
<daftykins> hrmm i only use alt+n
<popey> DJones: i had that recently
<popey> DJones: there'a a menu option in the terminal to turn off menus
<DJones> I changed it on my last laptop, just can't remember how to change it now
<popey> right click properties?
<popey> s/properties/preferernces/
<popey> I use terminator these days now focus follows mouse works nicely with locally integrated menus
<DJones> Can't seem to find anything to set it, I thought it was in keyboard shortcuts, bu even with menu access keys disabled it makes no difference, that could be a bug though
<DJones> I think thats what I changed last time
<DJones> popey: What was that system/speed check website you mention now and again
<popey> uhm
<popey> dunno
<DJones> It was a list of peoples computers that had run a script/command
<popey> oh
<popey> hugos random benchmark
<DJones> Thats it
<popey> http://www.hants.lug.org.uk/wiki/HugoRandomBenchmark
<DJones> Thanks
<DJones> dave@Mobius:~$ time perl -e 'for($i=0;$i<1e8;$i++) { }'
<DJones> real	0m3.273s
<DJones> user	0m3.271s
<DJones> sys	0m0.003s
<daftykins> hehe
 * penguin42 can't be bothered wiring his P90 up
<popey> what cpu?
<DJones> i7-4700MQ @2.40 Ghz x 8 accoring to About this computer
<MartijnVdS> real	0m2.756s
<MartijnVdS> user	0m2.758s
<MartijnVdS> sys	0m0.002s
<daftykins> mobile haswell quad
<MartijnVdS> ^ non-mobile haswell quad :)
<daftykins> ;)
<popey> gosh
<DJones> Thats pretty dammed good
<MartijnVdS> yeah the mobile one looks amazing
<Laney> perl -e 'for($i=0;$i<1e8;$i++) { }'  6.92s user 0.16s system 99% cpu 7.138 total
<Laney> :(
<MartijnVdS> Laney: what kind of PCU?
<MartijnVdS> CPU
<Laney> core 2 duo i think
<DJones> Have to say I was impressed with the ease of installation of Trusty on this machine
<Laney> model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     P8600  @ 2.40GHz
<MartijnVdS> Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz = mine
<penguin42> DJones: Trusty Unity is DOA in a kvm guest for me
<shauno> heh, I tried it on my appletv for kicks and giggles.  it's still going ..
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i got 8 seconds from this VM atop a non-VT pentium dual core
<bigcalm> Anybody had this happen in Portal 2 on Linux? https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/439904822347563008/photo/1
<bigcalm> Even better :) https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/440233670402523136/photo/1
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-23
<knightwise> morning everyone
<mapps> hi knightwise
<MooDoo> morning all
<Myrtti> morning
<knightwise> hey Myrtti  , MooDoo
<knightwise> how are you gyys
<knightwise> guys
<MooDoo> yeah ok now i've gotten rid [mostly] of this tummy bug
<SuperMatt> word up yo
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon how are you doing today
<brobostigon> hi knightwise , not bad, and you?
<knightwise> busy monday morning , should learn not to schedule meetings before I have had my coffee
<brobostigon> oh dear,
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<Myrtti> knightwise: still sore from wearing high heels
<knightwise> Myrtti: what party did you go to ?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Banana Bread Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> one, a happy monday is a contradiction in terms and two pass the banananananana bread
<awilkins> Urg, bananas
<JamesTait> Banana bread is wonderful stuff.
<awilkins> Oh lawks, save me from people who check build products into version contorl
<zmoylan-pi> hmmm, they don't sell banana bread but i think i know where i can get a banana and walnut muffin
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: hmmmm muffins! ! !
 * awilkins couldn't get English muffins in Tesco yesterday
<awilkins> This foiled my planned breakfast of egg and ham muffin with salsa
<Myrtti> knightwise: my own wedding
 * Laney screams
<Myrtti> which reminds me
<Laney> can't comment on a wordpress blog because it thinks I have an account, which I don't
<Laney> then denies I have one when I try to reset the password
<Laney> and the 'recovery' form asks for some kind of proof that wordpress will trust
<Myrtti> there we go. Realname changed
<Laney> which I don't have because I never made the account in the first place
<Laney> it's because they merged with Gravatar or something, but the integration is half arsed
<knightwise>  Myrtti congratssssss
<Seeker`> Myrtti: /nick MSample?
<Myrtti> Seeker`: you're late, I did that fo
<Myrtti> r Friday and Saturday
<Seeker`> ah, damn, I missed it
<Myrtti> I did it even in ircnet
<Myrtti> they don't have services so there was a chance I had lost Myrtti
<davmor2> Myrtti: I have to say your name sound like something done at a hospital now, but on a huge plus side Congratulations to both of you \o/
<Myrtti> well, at least you can spell it now
<popey> \o/ Congratulations Myrtti!
<popey> topic
<popey> bah
<davmor2> Myrtti: true to
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Congratulations to Mrs Myrtti Sample
<popey> :)
<Seeker`> \o/
<davmor2> JamesTait: bread and banana is that not just a banana sandwich
<zmoylan-pi> ooooh, a bananananana sandwich for lunch might be nice, if i can find a banananananana ripe enough
<JamesTait> Myrtti! Congratulations! \o/
<JamesTait> davmor2, good grief, no!
<awilkins> GFs favourite banana trick is to freeze them and then shove them in a blender with milk to make a banana milkshake
<popey> ooh!
<popey> good one
<davmor2> JamesTait: Banana Sandwich is yummy though.
<popey> so no ice cream needed?
<popey> Peanut butter and banana is also delicious.
<popey> Which I only "discovered" recently
<JamesTait> davmor2, I won't argue with that.
<zmoylan-pi> isn't that what killed elvis?
<zmoylan-pi> oh wait he fried those sandwiches i think
<JamesTait> popey, I recently "discovered" mini banoffee pie - take a digestive biscuit, spread dulce de leche on it, and slice a banana on top of that.
<zmoylan-pi> AND the drugs...
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're just not right in the head are you ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, I never claimed otherwise. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: I blame that beuno he is bad influence :D
<JamesTait> I couldn't possibly comment.
<davmor2> hahahaha
<erop> hello there
<erop> i can't access to ubuntu channel normal ?
<davmor2> erop: how do you mean?
<erop> what i m saying is
<erop> i can't able to access on  ubuntu channel
<erop> on freenode
<erop> rev.poneytelecom.eu
<erop> my isp
<davmor2> erop: /join #ubuntu should get you in, the only reason you wouldn't is if you are kicked or blocked aiui
<shauno> there appears to be a ban in place
<erop> what is the reason of ban ?
<shauno> no idea, it doesn't say
<shauno> if you don't believe it was intended for you, you might want to ask in #ubuntu-ops whether they can replace it with a ban that's less wide
<popey> erop: /join #ubuntu-ops  to find out
<popey> oh, he has
<shauno> ah, lovely
<shauno> (my connection is horribly latent this morning, so I'm hamstrung)
<shauno> typing into ssh feels like sending postcards to freenode :(
<zmoylan-pi> wait till apple builds their data centre and see how the speeds go :-)
<shauno> heh, I was looking at that.  trying to figure out exactly where they're talking about
<zmoylan-pi> 100% renewable in galway, that rules out solar :-)
 * davmor2 pictures shauno say "please isp can I have some more"  isp replying "More, you want More BOY!!!"
<shauno> it's this new 3g dongle.  I can't find words for it suitable for a family-friendly channel
<zmoylan-pi> well the packets have a terrible head wind to beat today :-)
<shauno> indeed
<shauno> this apple thing is weird.  they say athenry, and then derrydonnel forest.  which is in roscommon
<davmor2> Man I'm kinda glad to be in England and not New England right now :)
<zmoylan-pi> [Oymyakon, Russia] Condition: Mostly Cloudy | Temp: -33C/-30F/240K/429R | Humidity: 77% | Wind Speed 0mph/0kmph
<shauno> meh, I've cycled in -40
<zmoylan-pi> -50 last week
<zmoylan-pi> they've had -70
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I was thinking more of the 3 meters of snowfall
<davmor2> and counting
<davmor2> metres even
<shauno> (I still maintain -40 is safer than -4, since no-one can get their cars to start :)
<zmoylan-pi> they should ask the russians for one of their snow clearing machines that uses plane jet engine :-) http://gizmodo.com/5332274/in-russia-snowblowers-use-mig-15-jets/
<zmoylan-pi> in siberia they set the engine on fire to unfreeze the fuel in it
<awilkins>  Linux 4.0 codename  : "Hurr durr I'ma sheep"
<awilkins>  REAL ENTERPRISEY
<zmoylan-pi> better than os/2 ferengi? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> android kitkat
<awilkins> Yeah, they light a fire under the engine block. Damn diesel.
<zmoylan-pi> microsoft bob...
<davmor2> awilkins: Linus did a poll on g+ for version number and name that's what people voted for :D
<zmoylan-pi> letting the internet vote... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> so much for g+ been a more /serious/ social network
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: there were only 2 choices and both were kinda bad,  "I went with 4.0 cause I can't handle big numbers" or "hurr durr I'm a sheep"  iirc
<shauno> reminds me of one where Slovakia let people vote on the name for a new bridge.  Chuck Norris won ..
<davmor2> shauno: chunk norris always wins that's why he's chunk norris ;)
<zmoylan-pi> the bbc had a competition for favourite song and 'a nation once again' got a /few/ votes :-)
<shauno> 'chunk' norris is a very strange mental picture ;)
<davmor2> chuck even :P
<diddledan> morning
<knightwise> hey diddledan
<shauno> o/
<davmor2> diddledan: hello
<diddledan> oh dear. nvidia done a booboo: http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/anton-shilov/nvidia-slammed-with-class-action-lawsuit-over-geforce-gtx-970-specifications/
<zmoylan-pi> this is more nvidia been tackled over a booboo than an actual booboo as they do lots of booboos.
<zmoylan-pi> i have now used my quota of the word booboo for today :-)
<directhex> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mN2ZCjOtk3U/U50keBU9_WI/AAAAAAAAA9g/FjpF_mUsnl8/s1600/5.png
<diddledan> directhex, \o/
<diddledan> directhex, you have a png for every occasion?
<directhex> diddledan: not per se - i know the right png to search for for every occasion, though
<diddledan> knightwise, I've now listened to a few of your podcasts - well done dude, they're good
<knightwise> thanx diddledan :)
<knightwise> glad you enjoy them
<diddledan> I like the music intro :-)
<knightwise> thanx :) Its composed by steve cherebino
<diddledan> anyone know a reason why a path that exists in a git repo is reporting that it isn't when I use git blame?
<diddledan> oh right, blame works on files not dirs
<diddledan> ok ignore me
<awilkins> Yes. Git has no concept of "a directory"
<davmor2> awilkins: that's cause it's a git
<diddledan> and bzr is just bazaar
<diddledan> speelign?
<diddledan> bazarre?
<awilkins> Mercurial is just too prone to changing quickly
<shauno> oh man.  I was reading a *recent* discussion about whether it was time to upgrade from RCS to CVS yet
<diddledan> shauno, nowai?
<diddledan> shauno, are you allowed to tell us the context?
<dogmatic69_> knightwise:  where is your amazing podcast?
<diddledan> dogmatic69_, knightwise.com
<dogmatic69_> ta
<Myrtti> right
<Myrtti> been to see The Imitation Game
<Myrtti> slight disappointment
<diddledan> any good?
<diddledan> aww
<Myrtti> theory of everything was better
<Myrtti> and reminded me of my first choice for brides entry music
<Myrtti> which we ended up using
<shauno> I liked the imitation game.  as long as you take it as a story about how absurdly we treated him, rather than the enigma plot itself
<awilkins> When I got to my last job, they had been discussing, for 2 years, whether to use CVSNT or Visual SourceSafe 6.0
<Seeker`> awilkins: thats a long meeting. I hope they provided food.
<awilkins> Within my first 2 weeks on the job I had installed Subversion and uploaded all the content into it
<awilkins> Because NO WAY was I using either of those things for source control
<shauno> reminds me of the last CRM move we made.  it was largely disasterous, and called a success
<awilkins> Hehehe
<shauno> it turns out the people calling it a success, had been here when we made the previous move - when involved going back to pen & paper for 6 months
<awilkins> There's a team at my old job who wanted our help with a Wordpress instance they set up
<dogmatic69_> awilkins:  if SVN is better than CVSNT / SourceSafe, they must be really terrible...
<awilkins> SourceSafe is utterly utterly horrible
 * dogmatic69_ says things like that about SVN
<awilkins> SVN was lovely in comparison
<awilkins> I think I adopted it around 0.29 or 0.32 ish
<dogmatic69_> busy moving work from SVN to GIt
<awilkins> Yes, these days I'm a Git person (after a brief flirtation with bzr)
<awilkins> I liked Bazaar's handling of SVN integration better
<awilkins> I think they kinda muffed up the way Git integrates with SVN
<awilkins> (doesn't help that it uses Perl and it's the SLOWEST THING EVAH on Windows)
<diddledan> is it bzr that launchpad uses extensively?
<diddledan> i.e. canonical
<davmor2> diddledan: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/migration/en/foreign/bzr-on-git-projects.html
<awilkins> diddledan, Yeah Canonical invented Bazaar
<awilkins> I used Bazaar for an internal project for a few reasons i) Bazaar has an easier CLI for standard users to grasp ii) Git wasn't ready for WIndows at the time iii) SVN was way too slow
<awilkins> Mercurial just flat out didn't work because of the way it stored metadata
<awilkins> Bazaar went from being 4x the speed of SVN on that tree to about 12x
<awilkins> (just for checkouts)
<diddledan> https://mrkr.io/6N97vWe5Xe
<diddledan> joy
<davmor2> diddledan: hahahaha
<diddledan> clicking the "more info" type link shows that google says it has never detected any bad software in the past 90 days and that it currently isn't listed as a bad site..?!
<diddledan> eh?
<diddledan> http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=http%3A%2F%2Fdownloads.sourceforge.net%2Fproject%2Fpidgin%2FPidgin%2F2.10.11%2Fpidgin-2.10.11.exe%3Fr%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fpidgin.im%252F%26ts%3D1424709611%26use_mirror%3Dheanet&client=googlechrome&hl=en-GB
<shauno> I don't trust downloads from sourceforge anymore.  they've lost their way.
<diddledan> chrome won't let me download pidgin-2.10.11.exe, either
<diddledan> says it might harm my browsing experience and therefore it has been blocked
<shauno> it might be right :)
<davmor2> diddledan: I wonder how many of these things is Windows getting back at google by getting the top 200 sites blocked by google chrome :D
<awilkins> Sourceforge, ugh
<awilkins> Our work blocked them, but it was because we might install "Open Source software"
<shauno> I don't use them because they've taken to bundling malware.
<awilkins> Yup
<shauno> eg, their 'enchanced' installer for filezilla comes with complimentary copies of the ask toolbar, and 'hotspot shield'.  on osx, it comes with mackeeper
<diddledan> speaking of which: https://forum.filezilla-project.org/viewtopic.php?t=35228
<shauno> this one's more entertaining; https://forum.filezilla-project.org/viewtopic.php?t=30240
<mapps> hi all
<diddledan> japanese alps (donno when it was taken - the caption claimed it was in america but it was lying): https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11001744_776989345718622_1418677694130146446_n.jpg?oh=c54bf2ca55ca017d89655e6eeb5f56ba&oe=554E0307
<diddledan> allo mapps
<shauno> the alps are in japan now?  please don't austria, they may not survive the shock
<diddledan> https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10416081
<diddledan> music being distributed by https://www.archlinux.org/download, eh?
<diddledan> and http://nmap.org/download.html?
<diddledan> ... etc.
<shauno> lol, seriously
<shauno> do they have an album named .zip or something?
<diddledan> donno - their "official" url is a redirect loop
<diddledan> so I can't work out what they claim is being infringed
<shauno> man, they're busy little beavers - http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/reporters/40594/Total-Wipes-Music-Group/?p=10
<diddledan> lol, knightwise , you knit? :-p
<diddledan> I tried it as a teenager/kid
<diddledan> 1200 resq
<diddledan> reqs per week
<diddledan> circa 4000urls in those requests per week
<shauno> it's a shame you can't sort by the last column
<diddledan> jee, they've nearly his 200k URLs total
<diddledan> hit*
<diddledan> since may last year
<diddledan> 23k urls in the past week
<diddledan> I'm not sure I really want VR
<diddledan> e.g. oculus
<diddledan> just listening to a podcast about webvr
<davmor2> diddledan: what's wrong with Victory Roars?
<Azelphur> I just oven tricked my GPU...and it worked
<Azelphur> aww yis :P
<diddledan> cloudflare are disabling rc4 on ssl: https://blog.cloudflare.com/end-of-the-road-for-rc4/
<diddledan> teehee: https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10387299_667638803345190_7914584083263558507_n.jpg?oh=8be0e73d033bcdde592f55dd44b09c4c&oe=558E122D
<diddledan> methinks it's prolly fake
<mapps> brrr chilly here
<mapps> only 14c
<mapps> ;p
<diddledan> mapps, beach weather then?
<zmoylan-pi> [Dublin, DUB, Ireland] Condition: Light Rain Shower/Windy | Temp: 3C/37F/276K/496R | Humidity: 93% | Wind Speed 43mph/69kmph
<diddledan> I've no idea what it is here
<zmoylan-pi> and here is...
<shauno> silly question.  12:30am and 00:30 are the same thing, right?
<mapps> teehee diddledan
<mapps> :D
<mapps> 16c during day is ok
<mapps> sun and everything
<diddledan> shauno, yeah methinks so
<shauno> ta
<shauno> (I thought so, but as soon as I tried to explain why, my brain nope'd and ran away)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I have trouble with 12:00 (24 hour) being equal to 12:00pm
<diddledan> specifically on the hour
<shauno> I just don't use 12hr
<diddledan> me either
 * zmoylan-pi roots for decimal time... :-)
<shauno> but someone's complaining about having something scheduled for 00:30
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, swatch internet time?
<shauno> and insists on 12:30am eastern instead
<shauno> and my brain is sitting here waving white flags
<diddledan> eh?
<diddledan> that doesn't make sense
<shauno> hence why I had to double-check I'm not losing it :)
<zmoylan-pi> no, that's beat time.  decimal time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_time
<diddledan> "sorry, but midnight thirty is out of the question. how about midnight thirty instead?"
<shauno> so the tech is scheduled for 00:30.  the customer demands 12:30am instead.  as long as they never mention this to each other, it should be okay
<shauno> otherwise I will cry
<diddledan> crying is totally a valid option
<shauno> hm, metric time would make timezones 36 degrees wide?
<diddledan> eek
<shauno> that'd be interesting.  if you put zero-line through paris (because it's metric!), +1hr would run through moscow
<awilkins> Check they don't mean 1230pm
<awilkins> They might just be an idiot and think that 1230 (24hr) is in the morning
<shauno> we've already clarified it's the wee hours, because we had to double-check what calendar day it was too
<awilkins> Good.
<awilkins> Clients. Meh.
<shauno> humans, in general :)
<diddledan> I still think that business would be better off if clients were eliminate3d
<shauno> I dunno about eliminated.  but amazon-style "frustration-free packaging" would be nice
<diddledan> lol
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-24
<daftykins> http://www.ebuyer.com/662872-acer-aspire-xc-115-desktop-pc-dt-svtek-003
 * daftykins chuckles
<diddledan> is freedos a viable system these days then?
<zmoylan-1i> it has kept getting better last i read up on it
<daftykins> i just imagine there's some kind of rule about no OS on a fully assembled system 0o
<daftykins> don't really know why they bother at all
<zmoylan-pi> because dell needs an os to update firmware :-)
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeDOS#Commercial_uses
<zmoylan-pi> and when the nsa tries to infect your freedos system the additions to the config.sys and autoexec.bat stand out :-D
<mapps> strange eh
<knightwise> morning
<SuperMatt> good morning
<SuperMatt> glad the journald bug in vivid is fixed
<SuperMatt> I can actually boot my machine first time now
<knightwise> SuperMatt: what happened  ?
<diplo> Morning guys, does anyone here use any opensource projects type software ?
<diplo> And if so recommend anything
<popey> wat?
<popey> project management stuff?
<diplo> Sorry wasn't expecting that quick a reply
<diplo> :)
<diplo> So I basically write web software currently but I never know what other team members are working on, we have a case management software but it doesn't do projects
<diplo> I want one of the administration girls to keep on top of the staff knowing what we are doing and where we are
<diplo> So like percentage complete type thing
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> Morning davmor2 :)
<popey> diplo: trello
<diplo> Just looking now thanks
<diplo> davmor2, did you ever master Django ? I remember talking about it a while ago, just about to start playing again myself :)
<davmor2> diplo: no, I understood the pythony bits however the html/css part that you need to build on top to be able to do anything kinda threw me and I had no time to look into that :)
<diplo> Looks like the sort of thing popey but not sure my company would use an external thing, like free and internal :/
<popey> shame, trello is awesome
<diplo> davmor2, bootstrap and html5boilerplate make those things easier :)
<popey> we use it
<diplo> It looks it! I'd use it
<diplo> I may just use it with the girl and me :)
<diplo> And not tell them
<davmor2> trello ftw \o/
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Single Tasking Day! :-D
<knightwise> JamesTait: sorry , i didn't catch that . too many windows open
<JamesTait> Since the weather has decided it's going to be one of *those* days today, I've decided not to try and keep up with it, and just dry the washing inside instead.
<JamesTait> That means I can focus on my work. Single tasking ftw!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * davmor2 todays single task is breaking anything JamesTait has written.....Task completed man what a short day that was
<JamesTait> Like I need your help to break anything I've written, davmor2. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: :D
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're hello world scripts suck, 1: it says hello world and exits, surely as you exit you say goodbye. 2: My name isn't world, nor am I a world, so that is completely inappropriate. 3: So Goodbye person would be closer :D
<davmor2> JamesTait: to be fair when I looked at your code and it started running I knew there might be an issue. I mean literally running I took ages for me to catch it, I needed to get in shape anyway :)
<JamesTait> It has a life of its own.
<czajkowski> aloha
<bashrc> tzag
<davmor2> cz<tab>: how do
<czajkowski> good thanks
<czajkowski> working here with popey and Dominic
<czajkowski> had yummy fresh scrambled eggs
<davmor2> czajkowski: breaking up Easter Eggs and swapping bits with other peoples is not the same as scrambled you know that right ;)
<czajkowski> davmor2: well you don't say
<czajkowski> fancy that :p
<davmor2> czajkowski: :D
<awilkins> Egg muffins! Poached egg, toasted muffin, slice of prosciutto, blob of salsa.
<czajkowski> go outside lift hens, pick up eggs and scramble
<czajkowski> yummy
<diddledan> bit of geekiness for ya'll: * esmo (~esther@2001:67c:1560:a003:9103:7fab:aa7a:7dc4) has joined
<diddledan> * ahayzen__ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> silly
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5Az7Rez3Rk
<diddledan> better
<ahayzen__> o/
<diddledan> n0rty hexchat filling my clipboard when I accidentally select random text
<shauno> oh good.  I don't get anywhere near enough geekiness around here :p
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> so i was looking at old pdas on amazon today... i miss proper pdas... :-)
<shauno> I have a bucket full I could probably send you :p
<shauno> (okay, not that bad, but I do have 3 or 4 tungstens in a shoebox)
<shauno> (protip: you don't miss them.  you're wearing rose-tinted glasses)
<zmoylan-pi> i have a tungsten e still here but it was never 100%
<diddledan> needs more electricity?
<awilkins> I'd love the design ethos of PalmOS on modern hardware
<diddledan> I usually keep my devices at 100%
<zmoylan-pi> i mean the psions, the palm iiix, the visor neo
<awilkins> PalmIII
<zmoylan-pi> the tungsten e was shipped with wonky speaker and broken todo button. shipped it back and it was repaired but was still iffy afterwards
<diddledan> toto?
<diddledan> isn't he a dog?
<zmoylan-pi> todo, button to the right of up down rocker
<awilkins> Palm buttons ... erm, calendar, todo list, phone book and something else?
<zmoylan-pi> memopad
<awilkins> Thought so
<zmoylan-pi> i used memopad most
<diddledan> teehee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6vLp07ZePY#t=430
<diddledan> poor david
<mapps> damn its so sunny here
<mapps> migh get a tan
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> aaah, very interesting to read that the next intel CPUs, codenamed skylake... ditch VGA at long last \o/
<diddledan> daftykins, ?
<diddledan> as in no more intel graphics at all?
<daftykins> nah they're just ditching VGA ports
<daftykins> so it'll be all digital here-on out
<shauno> completely unrelated, yet shares 25% of those words ..
<shauno> is there a sensible way to get vga into a machine these days?
<daftykins> into :O
<shauno> yes
<daftykins> so, for capture?
<shauno> that sounds like a much more sensible word, yes :)
<daftykins> i've gotten very confused over what if any support for video in there is on modern cards
<daftykins> so no ideas here i'm afraid
<shauno> I want an imac, but if it's going to replace my existing monitor, I want to be able to display my amiga on it
<shauno> which I think should be possible, but people just look at me funny
<grebulus> popey ping
<daftykins> shauno: super fancy 5K modern type? i'd bet they're riddled with digital ports only
<grebulus> Just wondering where the compatibilty list for phones was on the wiki, that showed how far along progress was on phones' features ?
<grebulus> .... well it used to be there .
<shauno> I dunno about 5k.  the regular ones take display-port in at least, the 5k doesn't
<grebulus> Anyone, The Ubuntu Touch Compatability List is located ...... ?
<shauno> there appears to be an #ubuntu-touch  they may know better
<grebulus> crumbs, shouldn't be this hard.
<daftykins> i believe all the touch talk is quiet on freenode, so finding things out won't be easy for you no
<daftykins> shauno: hmm so some kinda active box to take in the VGA and spit it out into DP might be the plan
<shauno> well, I took a list on the logs host to see if it existed, and judging by the size of their logs, the touch channel is several times busier than this one
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> must be all the #ubuntu people that are forwarded there telling porkies then
<daftykins> or maybe it's just the odd hours we keep
<diddledan> odd hours? how very dare you!
<diddledan> morning, btw
<daftykins> \o/
<shauno> or simply expectations.  I can imagine going from the main channel where the room flies by a mile a minute, to one where you have to ask and wait
<diddledan> shauno, we have to wait, now?
 * diddledan waits
 * diddledan waits
 * diddledan waits
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> did i tease you all with the birthday cake i had on Saturday?
<diddledan> apparently reddit thinks "that lesbian jewish leftists were taking over control of the site"
<daftykins> so many layers! https://www.dropbox.com/s/6wfui9s5ufehwh8/IMG_20150221_213750.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> daftykins, :-o
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> I want
<diddledan> no, I need
<diddledan> lots of icing too by the looks
<grebulus_> How do I add fire to a bug ?
<diddledan> grebulus_, matches?
<diddledan> grebulus_, or a well-focused lens?
<grebulus_> maturity , please . I'm not in the mood.
<daftykins> bad move in here, then
<daftykins> a Touch bug?
<diddledan> specially when I'm awake
<diddledan> :-p
<grebulus_> How do I add fire to a bug ?
<diddledan> I don't even know what adding "fire" means
<daftykins> grebulus_: you need to rewrite your question when you repeat it, since it wasn't clear the first time
<diddledan> I'm assuming it means setting alight a critter
<daftykins> otherwise the definition of insanity applies
<grebulus_> Alright, 'heat' , then.
<diddledan> that doesn't help
<shauno> if you're on launchpad, click on the 'flame' icon and it'll explain what it means and how its calculated
<diddledan> oooooohhhhhh
<diddledan> *penny.. drops*
<grebulus_> I've done that, but how do I increase the 'heats' number ?
<diddledan> click the flame and it'll tell you what needs to happen to increase
<grebulus_> k , hangon ..
<diddledan> e.g. new subscribers
<shauno> yeah, it seems quite difficult to "turn up the heat" yourself.  affecting more people seems to be the most obvious, and you're only one person
<diddledan> I'm not. I'm three people!
<diddledan> I'm the holy trinity
<diddledan> (does that count as blasphemy?)
<shauno> cheese, tomato and pepperoni?
<diddledan> bingo
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> ham and pineapple is a good combo, too
<grebulus_> still dont get it .. just says how it is calculating the scores - nothing 'bout how to increase the 'heat'.
<diddledan> grebulus_, increasing the heat requires satisfying those conditions
<diddledan> jee, the deductive logic is waning here
<shauno> eh, don't be mean, it's late
<diddledan> sorry, I forget where I am at times
<shauno> <3 curtains
<daftykins> what did curtains do this evening?
<shauno> they keep amazingstoke outside, allowing you to forget where you are
<grebulus_> Ahh , done it .. apparently I'm an 'affected user' ... AFX , used to play that flight sim :)
 * grebulus_ is almost smug.
<daftykins> shauno: :D
<shauno> that's the idea.  subscribing to it, and marking that you're also affected, will bump it.  but only a smidge.  it's meant to guage how 'hot' it is overall, not just to you
<daftykins> so your bug is playing a flight sim on a phone?
<diddledan> I'm failing to see the connection there
<diddledan> affected user.. used to play a random flight sim.. eh?
<grebulus_> diddledan: Ay-eff-ex .. sounds like affected .
<daftykins> grebulus_: you're not a rock dweller, are you?
<diddledan> oic
<daftykins> (Guern)
<grebulus_> rock dweller ?
<daftykins> Donkey, crapaud, channel islander...
<shauno> see, that's funny because where I'm from, gurning is turning your face inside out as a competitive sport :)
<daftykins> :D
<grebulus_> Why are peple so concerned about who is talking | Opposed to what is actually being said ?
<diddledan> shauno, yeah that's where I was going
<daftykins> grebulus_: maybe you should dial back the strange paranoia. i am from Guernsey and so would find it interesting if another were around.
<grebulus_> it's completely irrelevant, and you'll never benefit from my IP address , so don't bother.
<daftykins> *sigh*
<diddledan> daftykins, but paranoia is so random
<daftykins> what the hell is wrong with you man? you think we're out to get you?
<daftykins> jesus, some people
<diddledan> daftykins, 87.81.170.10
<diddledan> (if my memory serves)
<diddledan> wow I got it right first time
<grebulus_> All I came on here was to ask for a table of the Touch compatability list progress .. sigh.
<diddledan> yeah, we really aren't out to get you
<daftykins> yep then i tried to make conversation, i know not to bother trying in future :)
<diddledan> hint, I'm a hermit
<grebulus_> I enjoy a meta discussion, though.
<diddledan> <-- looks like gollum
<diddledan> I haven't seen sunlight in weeks
<diddledan> so my chances of hunting someone down, successfully, are slim-to-none
<shauno> okay.  gollum with a ginger beard.  I need eyewash now
<diddledan> :-p
<grebulus_> for example, For those who regularly dial in humblebundle: What success have you had with all those games on Ubuntu as a percentage ?
<daftykins> diddledan: depends if you mean for food, sport or breeding i guess
<diddledan> I've run out of storage spaces :-()
<shauno> reminds me, have you ever tried a flightsim on a laptop?  I'm trying to figure out how to concrete-fill my joystick :/
<daftykins> extra sticky blu-tack
<diddledan> no more nails
<diddledan> sticks anything to anything
<daftykins> permanently.
<grebulus_> ...
<shauno> yeah.  I don't actually want to superglue my stick to my laptop
<daftykins> shame, i was looking forward to pics
<shauno> oh
<shauno> http://cl.ly/image/3H45252W2D2o3w1H2y0D
<diddledan> err
<daftykins> but to answer the request from the one too paranoid to share their whereabouts: 1) don't run desktop ubuntu 2) only once sprung for a humble bundle 3) wouldn't try to play under Linux
<grebulus_> k, fair well put points, there.
<daftykins> shauno: wow is that a wild shauno snap? i like the look of the thing that seems like an optical media trebuchet on the right 8D
<diddledan> daftykins, how dare you suggest we not run ubuntu on desktop!
<daftykins> i feel you could launch ubuntu DVDs at people with that
<shauno> lol
<grebulus_> must be a drone hideout.
<shauno> on the right is a throttle thingie
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> aww i'm disappointed now
<diddledan> optical media trbuchet sounds awesome!
<shauno> but my problem is, the stick itself moves too easily.  which is a bit eek when you balance your precious on top
<diddledan> trebuchet*
<ChloeWolfieGirl> I... would love to see people just throwing ubuntu dvd's at people
<grebulus_> HI ChloeWolfieGirl !
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Hey grebulus
<diddledan> shauno, don't be silly, if you balance me on top I'd crush your steering thingy
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Hey grebulus_
<grebulus_> .. got a few flying round, me does.
<diddledan> wait, I'm not your precious anymore?
<shauno> you never were.  we just tell your mom that to keep conversation interesting
 * diddledan pouts
<grebulus_> just needs an oculus rift.
<intrbiz> not sure what health and safety would have to say about just throwing dvds around, that could cause an injury
<grebulus_> Aren't samsung or sony bringing out a Â£800 version of that this year ?
<diddledan> intrbiz, what about pre-sharpening the edges?
<daftykins> both samsung *and* sony have competing products
<diddledan> there's an oculus samsung that you put a galaxy note into
<shauno> isn't the rift owned by fb now?  that's a difficult choice.  which is the least evil?
<diddledan> oculus note?
<intrbiz> diddledan: becareful someone in the hse might collapse if you say things like that
<grebulus_> those things are the only reason Blu-ray will sell more blank discs 'cos it takes ages to download content.
<daftykins> i dunno i did 6GB in 30 mins the other night, the times they are a-changin'
<diddledan> methinks bluray is pretty nearly dead these days
<intrbiz> you can make a spectrometer using the difraction grating extracted by peeling a dvd in half
<shauno> oh boy.  my boss was asking me what ISP I use, beause he gets absolutely fleeced
<shauno> it turns out that he lives so far outta town that his only option is "mobile broadband"
<daftykins> lolz
<daftykins> i'd rather move than put up with that
<diddledan> o..m..g..
<diddledan> that really is bad
<grebulus_> just waiting for google hangouts to get more interesting with them ;-)
<shauno> it is.  he pays 2/3rds of what I do, and has a 15GB cap
<diddledan> yeah, mobile datacaps are evil
<shauno> and I get a "stern letter" from my isp if I go past 2TB/mo
<diddledan> my sabnzbd has a record of 1.1TB in the past two weeks
<grebulus_> just think: you'll have to have a digital mask of your own face - bizare.
<ChloeWolfieGirl> I'm annoyed that I can only have 500 minuets at top from giffgaff, I'm a teenager, like 500 minuets is gonna last 2 days xD
<shauno> I wonder if I still have the last one.  they're funny letters.  no threats, no demands, no charges, no caps.  they just remind me that it might be polite to leave some for everyone else
<daftykins> you could make it last 2 days by communicating via more appropriate mediums instead \o/
<daftykins> such as, smoke signals
<shauno> do people still use minutes?  I thought it was all thumbs now
<ChloeWolfieGirl> daftykins If smoke signals could work between manchester and london that'd be where I'm at xD
<diddledan> aye, internet ftw
<daftykins> i guess you could youtube the smoke signals
<shauno> hm.  that would be pretty slow.  you could set manchester on fire, and it'd take 8 years for london to notice
<diddledan> I don't care about minutes or texts on my mobile because I do everything via interweb
<diddledan> shauno, we need a beacon system like when the spanish conquered us
<daftykins> still need to pop along and adjust my monthly rate soon
<daftykins> before month end ideally
<intrbiz> it would be nice to get FTTC hear, but at the rate BT keep delaying the due date, its anyones guess
<diddledan> there's a "beacon hill" right near here
<shauno> I'm waitin until they'll buy me a new phone.  they keep calling me and trying to put me on a new contract
<shauno> sure, I'll move to a new 2-year contract with nothing in return.  that sounds spiffy!
<diddledan> that's an excellent idea
<diddledan> I wonder why nobody tried it before?
<daftykins> he died again ;_;
<diddledan> ok, so owners dying, connections being reset by peers. IRC really is a dangerous place
<daftykins> sure is
<shauno> I suspect I'll just get my next phone directly from apple and avoid the whole locking thing.  messy.
<daftykins> apple phones :( you shock me, sir
<shauno> I know
<shauno> but they have one feature going for them that I haven't found on android yet
<daftykins> wallet emptying?
<diddledan> shauno, only one button?
<shauno> they work.
<shauno> I mean, you don't have to invalidate your warranty to get basic functionality.  that kinda jazz
<daftykins> hrmm, what like?
<shauno> I think a slovak keyboard was the one that was really annoying
<daftykins> you require a slovakian keyboard 0o
<shauno> quite often, sadly
<shauno> but most of this was things I ran into shopping for a phone for someone else
<shauno> and realising how much I take for granted, not being given half an OS and sent out into the wilds to find the other half
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> i feel like finding the other keyboard would've just been buried in the settings, surely
<shauno> you'd think
<daftykins> decided to have a glance at Lollipop here on my Nexus 4
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3staei9l9jag71x/Screenshot_2015-02-24-22-33-48.png?dl=0
<daftykins> nope, close but no cigar...
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ufqkmbfepqzghaz/Screenshot_2015-02-24-22-34-15.png?dl=0
<daftykins> huzzah!
<daftykins> well, maybe - don't really know if that's just display language
<shauno> and that's the image that came with the phone?
<daftykins> nah, many updates later
<shauno> we were finding stuff like http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2281254
<daftykins> oh nasty
<daftykins> i guess it's evil companies, then
<daftykins> given mines a Nexus i'm kinda cheating
<shauno> hilariously, even if we walked into phone stores in slovakia we were still finding phones that only did english/german/french/spanish
<daftykins> ;/
<daftykins> i think my Greek friend said that they basically adapted all chat to the english alphabet
<shauno> right
<shauno> or root your phone, and find humour in the fact that only people who have routed theirs can reply back in the same language
<shauno> or, yeah, buy a nexus, which seem to be some of the only ones that ship with the whole OS
<intrbiz> looks like the Samsung S4 has the Slovencina keyboard
<daftykins> shauno: oh and you technically can't buy over here, because islanders aren't permitted
 * daftykins makes a rude gesture toward Google
<shauno> yeah, ireland's similar.  they'll sell us the nexus5 but not 6
<daftykins> i get - Sorry! Devices on Google Play is not available in your country yet.
<daftykins> We're working to bring devices to more countries as quickly as possible.
<daftykins> Please check back again soon.
<daftykins> translation: we refuse to deal with a country that we actually have to give tax back to
<shauno> I'm surprised they sell any here
<shauno> apparently there's some tax nonsense behind apple not having any physical stores here  lol
<daftykins> sounds about right :D
<m0nkey_> wait. don't apple assemble i<stuff> in Ireland?
<daftykins> i... doubt it?
 * daftykins points at China
<diddledan> don't apple run their whole european stuff from ireland?
<shauno> they do have assembly here, and their em .. emiea? headquarters
<m0nkey_> Last time I bought a MBP in the UK, it said "Assembled in Ireland"
<m0nkey_> I remember it, because I thought it was odd.
<daftykins> oh really 0o
<m0nkey_> Maybe it wasn't a MBP, think it was my old G5 iMac
<shauno> weird.  I've bought 2 mbp here, and they were both made in china  lol
<shauno> but I know they make the new imacs & mac pros here & in the US
<intrbiz> quite a few tech companies seem to be in Ireland, mainly for tax reasons
<daftykins> G5 hehe, quite some time ago then
<shauno> because they don't want china to get their hands on their "stir welding" stuff
<m0nkey_> yup.. https://9to5mac.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/ireland.jpg?w=704&h=209
<m0nkey_> I'm guess Ãire still has a large number of iSheeple?
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> it's mixed.  their tax junta isn't overly popular
<shauno> but the fact they're sticking a new datacenter a few miles down the road seems to have gone down well
<shauno> especially since it's already been announced the tax loophole is being phased out.  it's quite nice to see them still investing after that news
<diddledan> what exactly is the loophole?
<diddledan> is there a wikipage?
<shauno> there is!
<shauno> google "double dutch irish sandwich"
<shauno> :)
<daftykins> crikey
<shauno> I know.  isn't that just a fantastic collection of words
<daftykins> https://goo.gl/maps/Aro7n
<daftykins> there's my route planned for the morrow ;)
<intrbiz> IRRC the Irish Govt offered local tax breaks for the large tech companies setting up years back
<diddledan> ick been chilly
<diddledan> that's german, right?
 * diddledan wanders off to find a wooly
<intrbiz> ich bin kalt
<diddledan> .
<diddledan> sorry, rogue keypress
<intrbiz> however Mir ist kalt would be more correct
<diddledan> I like my version :-p
<intrbiz> :)
<intrbiz> diddledan: I only know that phrase for listening to Rammstein now and then
<diddledan> teehee
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-25
<ChloeWolfieGirl> just ctrl+q firefox by accident, what is life?
<diddledan> oh boy that was fun
<diddledan> WHEEEEE
<diddledan> ok, who's fiddling with the cables?!
<diddledan> no **** sherlock
<diddledan> how to state the obvious, by evilmquin
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I guess it's nice to acknowledge it
<m0nkey_> boom, and now we have ubuntu installable from pxeboot
<m0nkey_> heh, that's cool. booted ubuntu live over the network. no more USB media for me! :-D
<diddledan> m0nkey_, \o/
<diddledan> m0nkey_, freenas hosting the tftp?
<m0nkey_> yup
<m0nkey_> also nfs
<diddledan> \o/
<m0nkey_> have centos installable from it too
<m0nkey_> also got clonezilla and memtest86+
<m0nkey_> considering dban, but that will just rip apart any drive it sees
<mapps> hi alll
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<awilkins> Oh joy, another software release from people who do not grok SSL
<awilkins> http://www.ghacks.net/2015/02/23/privdog-is-superfish-all-over-again/
<directhex> awilkins: that's the one from a major CA, no?
<awilkins> I wonder if the WebSense thing does that too... yes, it's from Comodo
<awilkins> THey had WebSense at my last place
<awilkins> Snooped all SSL in a similar way, replacing certs
<awilkins> With self-signed ones! Firefox complained
<awilkins> It's just stupid really, training users to bypass security warnings
<directhex> http://privdog.com/advisory.html
<awilkins> At least that's the right way to handle it
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Inconvenience Yourself Day! :-D
<bashrc> how inconvenient
<MooDoo> morning
<NET||abuse> hey guys. anyone gone through 14.04 desktop upgrading to kernel 3.16.x?
<NET||abuse> is it worth it?
<NET||abuse> any major teething issues? Package support issues?
<NET||abuse> especially the bumblebee type setups.
<NET||abuse> quiet today, anyone in? :)
<MooDoo> no i'm not here
<NET||abuse> spooky! :)
<bashrc> me neither
<NET||abuse> so has anyone gone through installing linux-image-generic-lts-utopic on an existing 14.04 box?
<popey> i have only one 14.04 box
<popey> I should probably install that
<JamesTait> NET||abuse, yes, several. I've noticed precisely zero difference. :)
<JamesTait> Which is as it should be, I suppose.
<NET||abuse> hehe, "Shuffling Zombie Juror"
<NET||abuse> 80 changes and fixes to Btrfs filesystem
<NET||abuse> that wins it for me.
<popey> yeah
<popey> thats why I'm doing it
<popey> my server is on 3.13
<NET||abuse> my home server is on 14.10
<NET||abuse> and already on 3.16
<NET||abuse> that's where my primary btrfs is. but..
<NET||abuse> my main work lappy is 14.04
<NET||abuse> and it's still on ext4
<awilkins> Not really been tempted to use btrfs on my workstations yet
<popey> i used it on my laptop for a while, but then switched back to ext4
<awilkins> Possibly a mistake to chose a file system name that can be mistyped as "barfs" with jus tone error
<NET||abuse> oh god guys, emergency convert dilema
<NET||abuse> I convinced our scrum master to install 14.10 on his laptop yesterday, he's now experience some pretty aweful graphics performance, seems to be an open bug on this issue
<NET||abuse> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1386721
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1386721 in Ubuntu GNOME "Graphics Slow After Upgrade 14.04 - 14.10" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<NET||abuse> anyone else run into this?
<NET||abuse> I have to fix this as i dont want my first convert in this office to fail .
<awilkins> Is it Ubuntu GNOME you installed?
<NET||abuse> no
<NET||abuse> unity
<NET||abuse> base install, no custom ppa's or anything
<NET||abuse> he's using an xps 15, so you know, optimus.. but intel is the default driver
<NET||abuse> so his intel performance is the issue here.
<awilkins> Hmm
<NET||abuse> he's not setup any bumblebee stuff himself, unless there's something in 14.10 by default for optimus?
<awilkins> I think in 14.10 if you visit the "additional drivers" tool there will be an option for you
<NET||abuse> he enabled the additional drivers for nvidia from the standard software & sources stuff, but they're not really used by default as far as i can tell
<awilkins> Stick the output of lsmod on a pastebin somewhere
<NET||abuse> since it's optimus, intel and nvidia are there, but there's not an option in the bios to suppress the nvidia card,
<NET||abuse> ok, one sec.
<NET||abuse> here iit is
<NET||abuse> http://dpaste.com/3WXP65E
<awilkins> So definitely running on the Intel chip and not the nvisia
<NET||abuse> yep
<NET||abuse> same as my own laptop
<awilkins> Oh, hold on
<NET||abuse> i've 14.04 on the same hardware
<awilkins> nvidia too
<NET||abuse> oh, both drm are loaded.
<NET||abuse> you think that's an issue?
<awilkins> Dunno
<awilkins> You could try blacklisting the nvidia module
<NET||abuse> how do you find out what's driving the current render context?
<NET||abuse> huh,, aparently that's what bumblebee does, (at least as far back as 2012,
<awilkins> Have you tried installing bumblebee
<NET||abuse> nope
<NET||abuse> is it available in 14.10 default repo's?
<awilkins> Apparently
<awilkins> Yup, in universe
<awilkins> (and for Trusty too)
<NET||abuse> just had him install that and reboot (with added nvidia support) and it now seems to have fixed the issue.
<NET||abuse> gonna post this experience on that bug
<NET||abuse> some one else said they had bumble bee installed and still experienced issues.. i'll have to monitor the situation.
<NET||abuse> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-gnome/+bug/1386721/comments/30
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1386721 in Ubuntu GNOME "Graphics Slow After Upgrade 14.04 - 14.10" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bugfix> buongiorno, come faccio a settare la scheda audio cmi8738 di default  su ubuntu 14.04
<bugfix> sorry my mystake
<knightwise> hey bugfix
<bugfix> GM, knightwise
<diddledan> evening
<SuperMatt> not quite
<diddledan> so much hate in bug #1268257
<lubotu3> bug 1268257 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-331-updates (Ubuntu) "nvidia-331-updates 331.38-0ubuntu3: nvidia-331-updates kernel module failed to build, with only error: "objdump: '... .tmp_nv.o': No such file"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1268257
<diddledan> nobody is actually commenting with anything useful just with hatred saying "I'm gonna go debian, so poo on you!"
<awilkins> It's a wee bit annoying
<awilkins> But fixable with a 1 line workaround...
<awilkins> (each time it occurs)
<awilkins> They should just write that into the bug description TBH
<awilkins> Hmm, I can edit it
<awilkins> Dunno if I can save the edit
 * Laney calls double glazing companies to get quotes
<Laney> no moar cold office
<zmoylan-pi> they sign Laney up for triple glazing companies cold calling lists...
<Laney> oh noes
<knightwise> hmm... need to figure out hibernate on this Surface pro1
<knightwise> rebooting is a little bit of a drag
<davmor2> Laney: but cold coffee is the only way to drink it, 1: you're a coder so forget about it, 2: you work for Canonical so get pulled into meetings and forget about it, 3: you work at Canonical so get pulled into coding debates and forget it, 4: Buy a thermal Mug end of cold coffee :P
<awilkins> Or just roll with it and make frappes
<zmoylan-pi> get a usb heated mug... http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0016LE4HM?*Version*=1&*entries*=0
<awilkins> really? What kind of thermal output can you get out of 500ma at 5V? And is it good for your motherboard?
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't take much heat to really slow down your coffee going cold
<intrbiz> USB 3, 2A @ 5V would be 20W, which would take about a minute to raise 250ml of water by 1 degree Kelvin based on my back of an envelope maths
<awilkins> Yeah, but you also have to take into account the heat radiated from the cup and the surface of the coffee
<intrbiz> awilkins: sure, would need good insulation
<awilkins> I suppose that one is insulated and also has a lid
<awilkins> Is it actually a USB mug?
<awilkins> Or is that a USB form factor 12V connector - says it's a 12V mug
<awilkins> It's probably Naughty to run 12V through a USB plug
<zmoylan-pi> there are usb variants these days i've seen, that one just showed up on quick search
 * zmoylan-pi remembers seeing a cpm computer that had 240v running through part of the motherboard after it was modified by engineer instead of the usual 12v
<intrbiz> USB sockets seem to be rated for 30V
<intrbiz> USB 3,1 is going to allow upto 100W of power
<zmoylan-pi> will have to make a cover to prevent babies sticking wet fingers in usb sockets...
<ali1234> that's 20A...
<zmoylan-pi> s/babies/eejits/
<popey> thems some fat cables
<intrbiz> IIRC USB 3.1 neogates the voltages to reduce the current required
<diddledan> err, neogates?
<zmoylan-pi> close enough
<intrbiz> diddledan: however you spell it
<intrbiz> USB 3.1 can go upto 20V @ 5A
<diddledan> intrbiz, I'm not sure what you mean so can't work out how it should be spelt :-p
<moreati> USB 3.1 negotiates higher voltages/currents, before it delivers that power through the cable. Unless the infant can talk USB they'll get the default 5V/100 - 500 mA
<intrbiz> diddledan: negotiates is what I mean :P
<diddledan> aha
<diddledan> moreati, kids are quite clever these days
<diddledan> moreati, I used to be able to speak modem :-p
<davmor2> popey: uu 58 is getting harder now, and mvm level 8 I'm pretty sure is impossible ;)
<davmor2> level 8 on hard that is
<leviathaan> is it possible to open an ost file under ubuntu?
<knightwise> ost ...
<knightwise> what kind of file is that ?
<awilkins> Outlook store
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> ;]
<zmoylan-pi> \o
<shauno> o/
<shauno> (that snowden docu is on 4 in a wee while (2305) if anyone's still feeling nerdy)
<zmoylan-pi> i watched it yesterday, it's excellent
<m0nkey_> i'm kinda hoping that the docu is libre
<diddledan> shauno, citizenfour?
<shauno> yeah
<diddledan> custard causes obesity?
<zmoylan-pi> how many litres per day do you need to consume? :-)
<diddledan> I'm not sure there's a custard RDA
<shauno> there should be
<shauno> but then, caffeine has an OD limit and it's all lies (we tried)
<daftykins> hi gents
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> allo daftykins
 * daftykins is back from an 11hr funeral
<daftykins> or rather there may've been a few pints afterward...
<zmoylan-pi> but when you've drank enough coffee doesn't the phasing ability it gives you prevent you from drinking any more? :-)
<diddledan> yeah the bmw mini is twice the size of the original mini
<diddledan> mini in name only
<diddledan> the bmw mini is actually bigger than some other cars
<diddledan> and ffs @ the proliferation of those gambling adverts
<daftykins> it's all mapps fault
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> teehee
<diddledan> I swear they're all the same group just tax-broken separate company names
<zmoylan-pi> their passangers are getting larger...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, it's all the custard
<shauno> the germini isn't a mini, it's a MINI.
<daftykins> i am the passenger ~
<shauno> I ride, and I ride
<daftykins> suddenly i want to play that
<zmoylan-pi> the smart car is smaller than original mini even if it only seats 2
<daftykins> ooh it is Iggy Pop
<shauno> the original mini is a tardis
<zmoylan-pi> my grandad used to take pigs to market in a mini
<shauno> you sure you're a dub?  sounds more like waterford
<zmoylan-pi> he lived in kildare
<daftykins> i'd dare 'im to kil a pig whilst driving said mini
<shauno> seriously though, the original mini is one of the bigger cars I've been in
<shauno> I mean, it's no land rover
<funkyHat> I drove the new mini clubman the other day. That's even *less* mini
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-26
<diddledan> adverts: the universal indicator that it's time to use the toilet
<daftykins> diddledan: that or the general scent to the room ;)
<shauno> that always weirds me out a bit with modern cars
<shauno> I'm used to, in my mini, the dash was like a wooden shelf.  and the rest was *space*
<shauno> now when you get in a car it's this big plastic blob that tries to envelop you
<shauno> I just don't find plastic hugs from a volvo reassuring
<zmoylan-pi> of course the safety record of first mini wasn't great.  the stick out petrol spout caused the minis to catch fire if they rolled
<zmoylan-pi> in a crash
<shauno> then don't do that :)
<shauno> that said, my first mini did lose a rather entertaining discussion with a tree
<diddledan> was there ever a liklihood that it was going to win that conversation?
<shauno> well, there was a large amount of luck involved.  it has mismatched wheels - they weren't all the same size.  so it had some fundamental instabilities when going backwards
<zmoylan-pi> and by modern standards i doubt it would pass a modern safety test
<shauno> "modern standards" are incredibly dull
<zmoylan-pi> until you have the excitement of a crash in the next few seconds
<diddledan> press
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> is it really 2 am already?!
<shauno> no.
<shauno> just ordered an optical-digital audiocard thing for the pi.  I can't believe people actually make this stuff
<mapp> hi all
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> anyone got a backup of the /topic before I changed it? (I did have but lost it) :)
<diplo> popey, how long ago, I've been connected for days so can scroll up
<popey> this week
<popey> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/02/23/%23ubuntu-uk.txt
<popey> thats when i did it
<popey> ahh, found one
<popey> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/12/02/%23ubuntu-uk.html
<diplo> Topic for #ubuntu-uk is: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | IRC stats: http://tinyurl.com/uukstat | G+ Community: http://tinyurl.com/uukgplus | next meeting TBA | Beer Train! http://tinyurl.com/choochoo2015
<popey> that'll do
<diplo> :)
<popey> yay!
<popey> thanks diplo
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport |IRC stats: http://tinyurl.com/uukstat | G+ Community: http://tinyurl.com/uukgplus | next meeting TBA | Beer Train! http://tinyurl.com/choochoo2015
<ali1234> what's the cheapest thing on amazon? i'm 1p short for free delivery
<popey> http://www.fillerchecker.co.uk/
<ali1234> nice
<ali1234> i think we crashed it
<popey> yeah, slowwwww
<ali1234> probably exceeded the api limit
<Myrtti> â¥
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy For Peteâs Sake Day! :-D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> found an easter egg in google hangouts today
<popey> was it delicious?
<foobarry> type woohoo in hangout conversation
<foobarry> i had an important question about the hudl2 but i've forgotten it :(
<foobarry> but i was wondering if anyone had measured data usage on android between chrome and firefox?
<foobarry> chrome is killing my data plan
<zmoylan-pi> switch to opera, it compresses the data remotely.  it takes getting used to but saves a tonne on data
<foobarry> in theory, does it work in practice?
<zmoylan-pi> i used it when i was in hospital for 6 weeks in 2008 and could make 50mb daily allowance last all day browsing on devices.
<davmor2> foobarry: or get an unlimited data plan
<foobarry> allegedly chrome is using compression
<foobarry> "282MB vs 208 MB in last month"
<davmor2> foobarry: just stop using the internet when you hear someone is wrong on it
<davmor2> JamesTait: You've met Pete Cannon right, he's bigheaded enough without celebrating a day to his sake, and I mean what's his rice wine got that others don't ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, he's not big headed, he's just got no hair. :-P
 * JamesTait adjusts his comb-over
<davmor2> JamesTait: you really don't know him that well then do you ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: pete?  That's the scarey one right?
<davmor2> MooDoo: http://www.cannon-linux.co.uk/ this one
<MooDoo> yeah i know who he is :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: I wouldn't say scary :)
<MooDoo> :)
<moreati> I'm trying to think of a name for a Tesco API client, without using any trademarks. Any ideas? Does Tesco have any harmless nick names?
<foobarry> they used to have a slogan
<foobarry> every little helps
<foobarry> so you could call it
<foobarry> littlehelper
<moreati> probably also trademarked
<foobarry> little helper is not though
<moreati> oh, I see. A bit too generic
<foobarry> or call it tesico
<moreati> hmm, maybe 'ocset'
<daftykins> wasn't there an ad campaign about saving pennies in some form or another 0o
<daftykins> i don't really know English supermarkets :>
<foobarry> supertes
<davmor2> moreati: just take the last three letter that's pretty safe right?
<awilkins> SCO ?
<davmor2> awilkins: damn did I forget the sarcasm tags again
<moreati> given those who've gone before me https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=tesco, I'll take the risk
<daftykins> what about naming yourself Tess, then you're Tess Co.
<moreati> https://github.com/encio/tesconnect heh
<moreati> https://github.com/jrdnull/tesgo heh^2
<intrbiz> moreati: what are you pulling from the Tesco API?
<davmor2> intrbiz: Bunnys...no wait that's magicians and top hats
<moreati> just product search/price lookup at the moment. mysupermarket.co.uk with cross-supermarket comparison is what I'd like, but they have no API
<intrbiz> moreati: have you come across openfoodfacts? (they did a session at odcamp at the weekend)
<moreati> yes, they have very few products though
<intrbiz> sure, but open licensed
<foobarry> is a video camera from a couple of years ago gonna be much better than my phone?
<foobarry> e.g. toshiba x400, or panasonic hx dc3
<daftykins> check out the recording resolutions, codecs and bitrates
<daftykins> the lens is probably what'd have an edge though, being not constrained by the size of a phone
<foobarry> mp4, hd1080
<popey> will almost certainly be better in low light, and have optical zoom
<popey> which your phone wont
<davmor2> foobarry: horse for courses, camera still come with a lot of things that phones don't.  Phones are great I found for a quick video of something or a nice snapshot of something you spot while out and about, but cameras still leave phones in the dust when it comes to long videos or a more professional photo tool
<foobarry> my missis wanted to do a few tutorials on youtubes
<foobarry> won't be directly revenue generating, but linked to stuff she might sell
<foobarry> but i'm not exaclt ymade of money so wonder if phone will suffice
<foobarry> in good light
<popey> also, proper cameras have a flip screen so you can see yourself
<foobarry> i have an old school camcorder that records to digital tape, though i reckon that must be 480p max
<popey> you dont want to record a whole video and find you chopped your head off
<foobarry> the cheapo hd ones do too
<popey> right
<popey> my point was that phones dont
<foobarry> i would record on a tripod
<foobarry> i see :D
<popey> you should watch techmoan
<popey> he reviews cameras
<foobarry> i am also a cheapskate
<popey> grumpy, so i think you'd enjoy them
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/user/techmoan
<foobarry> i'm less grumpy nowadays?
<popey> reviews a lot of dashcams
<popey> but he also does a lot of the cheaper go-pro like cameras
<popey> which might be what you're after
<foobarry> cool cheers
<popey> because they are stupid easy to use, and record to a card
<popey> and many work well in various lighting conditions
<foobarry> which is ulmtately what i want
<popey> check out the sj cam videos
<popey> they're the go-pro knock-offs
<foobarry> but you pay more for the portable/waterproofness i guess
<popey> ya
<popey> i use to like my kodak zi8
<foobarry> oh, they are cheap
<popey> but they dont make those anymore and sam busted the lens so it's permanently out of focus
<foobarry> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SJ1000-1080P-H264-Video-Recorder-30M-Waterproof-Sport-Mini-DV-Bike-Helmet-WHITE/291306771193?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29316%26meid%3Ddfafcd33d9ca447c878cfd4a5faff6cb%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D111608096883&rt=nc
<foobarry> wonder if sj1000 is worse than a phone though
<daftykins> that URL - ze goggles, they do nussing! @_@
<popey> jeez, look at all the mounting gear you get
<popey> for 25 quid!
<foobarry> i could mount it to my dog
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QppW_0_DuiE
<foobarry> techmoan burned his hand, or is it a scar
<popey> the only problem with them is they have fisheye lenses
<popey> thats the case for most action cams
<foobarry> oh, shipping Â£20
<popey> wifey wont want that
<foobarry> good point
<popey> i used to take the zi8 to the park to video my kids
<popey> and sam really enjoyed using it too
<popey> was very quick to setup and use.
<foobarry> looking for reasons to get the sj1000 :P
<popey> this tightwad thing doesn't really work out well usually.
<foobarry> no
<foobarry> shame
<foobarry> part of it is not realyl having a compelling reason to buy it
<foobarry> if there was a good reason i would spend prper munneh
<popey> might have to take the kodak apart and find out why the focus is busted
<foobarry> techmoan has it in his car
<foobarry> dash kit would be handy
<popey> i have a dash cam :)
<foobarry> i've seen
<popey> never watch the footage
<popey> its dull :)
<foobarry> i did
<popey> other nice thing about zi8
<popey> usb connector built in
<popey> so just plug the camera into pc, drag video off it
<popey> no faff
<foobarry> kodak you say?
<popey> ya
<popey> there was one newer model than the zi8
<foobarry> looks like a phone lens
<popey> which was waterproof
<popey> the next one was kodak playsport zx5 I think
<foobarry> know about cisco flips?
<foobarry> seem some cheap
<ali1234> flip cameras are rubbish
<ali1234> get a gopro
<foobarry> or indeed a sj1000 :D
<davmor2> popey: wifey made me chocolate chip cookies \o/
<popey> \o/
<popey> my wifey made me do the school run
<daftykins> was a spade required to shoo them out the door? :D
<davmor2> popey: that doesn't sound like it is quite as full of chocolate goodness
<popey> No. very much so.
<popey> lots of other parents were surprised to see me
<popey> (I never do the school run)
<foobarry> i did that yesterday while wife went to watch cats the musical
<foobarry> daughter had a meltdown when mama didn't turn up to childmunder
<davmor2> popey: my query is always the  same at this point how far do schools actually run
<diddledan> sometimes the system (government) actually works - I just received a new disabled person's bus pass for myself \o/ (mental health counts as a disability. who knew?!)
<daftykins> diddledan: you skiver!
<daftykins> how'd you swing that one? :P
<daftykins> provide a transcript of some of our late night chats in here? :)
<diddledan> heh, I've been a diagnosed nutjob for years :-D
<diddledan> since I was 17. I'm now 32 (in a few days)
<daftykins> cor la
<diddledan> \o/ binary age!
<foobarry> diddledan: i haz 40 on saturday
<foobarry> will haz
<foobarry> still have my own hair
<foobarry> and it is still brown
<diddledan> my hair is receding
<foobarry> goign south for winter?
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> at least I don't have a hole in the middle
<foobarry> if i havem then nobody told me
<awilkins> I want a shell script that   i) Accepts input pasted into it and then ii) runs it through sed normalizing it's whitespace and iii) then puts it in xclip so I can paste it to another window.... go!
 * awilkins wouldn't mind some help with that :-)
<SuperEngineer> hmmm, ok getting p'd off with you now, Chromium - stop randomly crashing when you're open but I'm looking elsewhere! You have been warned Chromium
<awilkins> tr '\n' ' ' | sed -n 's/ \+/ /gp' - | xcliip # hooray
<daftykins> i still have luscious long locks in a ponytail
<daftykins> :P
<diddledan> I've got long locks too :-p
<diddledan> just not so much at the front :-D
<daftykins> d'aww
<SuperEngineer> diddledan, reverse your mirror - you'll never need to care about male pattern balding again ;)
<NET||abuse> hey guys,
<NET||abuse> i'm trying to debug a flood of apparmor messages that appeared just  now on a server
<NET||abuse> anyone know how to read apparmor messages?
<daftykins> throw it in a pastebin
<NET||abuse> not sure it's going to break anything other that waste loads of log file space.
<NET||abuse> http://dpaste.com/3E2FT2X
<NET||abuse> and sensu(which i didn't setup) is giving out crap about the messages .
<NET||abuse> i pushed out some config changes (using saltstack) to the machine, but i'm wondering if people hadn't run a highstate on it for ages
<NET||abuse> never had reason to wonder about apparmor before.
<SuperEngineer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10433064/  ... real life tale we can all learn from
<diddledan> SuperEngineer, ouch
<SuperEngineer> yup
<MooDoo> SuperEngineer: well that sounded like fun :(
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: ouch
<davmor2> MooDoo: like you do really work, you play on your home servers all day and just pretend you can't blag us ;)
<davmor2> s/really/real
<MooDoo> lol thanks davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: thought you'd like that :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: you sir are a git ;)
<MooDoo> now leave me to my nic bonding
<davmor2> MooDoo: I am no I use bzr :P
<davmor2> s/no/not
<MooDoo> I'm ssh'd to the garage :) it's warmer in the kitchen
<davmor2> MooDoo: see I said you just work on your own servers all day ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: shush you, it's a perk
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahahaha
<daftykins> hah
<davmor2> MooDoo: you obviously need to put your servers under more stress to warm the garage up more ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: I have 3 servers, 1 desktop and a NS
<MooDoo> NAS
<davmor2> MooDoo: yes so stress test them all and the garage will be the warmest place in the building ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<dutchie> \o/ RAT tickets arrived
<MooDoo> yay
<popey> \o/
<popey> mine are still on the wall
<ChloeWolfieGirl> RAT tickets?
<popey> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 19th September 2015 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3040-real-ale-train-2015/
<MooDoo> it's a popular uk event :D
<MooDoo> although /me is waiting for ubuntu uk podcast live
<awilkins_> BEEEER
<popey> yeah, bunch of us are going
<awilkins_> Proper beer
<popey> beer and games
<popey> and silly chatter
<awilkins_> Board games?
<popey> and steam trains!
<popey> card games
<awilkins_> Traditional or collectible?
<popey> cards against humanity, we didn't playtest this at all, and this time, Exploding Kittens
<awilkins_> Ah
<awilkins_> What's teh ticket situation like
<popey> i bought mine a week or so ago
<popey> dunno if there's any left
<popey> looks like they still have some
<MooDoo> they sold out quite quickly last year iirc
<popey> we announced later too
<awilkins_> May try to enlist the GF
<popey> they have ladybeer
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> they also have curry and chilli
<diddledan> america's fcc succumbed and have enacted strong net neutrality goodness
<diddledan> oh, it still needs to go through congress :-(
<diddledan> the campaign site has more: https://www.battleforthenet.com
<davmor2> MooDoo: I think popey knows about the ladybeer because it is what he drink just in a manly glass ;)
<popey> drinking some right now :)
<ging> does anyone know much about debian packaging maintainer scripts interacting with config from other packages?
<ging> is it possible to do reliably without having a conf dir instead of a conf file?
<diddledan> ging, I wouldn't like a package to fiddle with a file installed by a different package
<shauno> what you're describing is pretty much why conf-dirs exist.  that's probably a clue
<ging> shauno: yes, but i wonder how people tackle the problem without them
<diddledan> they don't
<diddledan> or at least they shouldn't
<diddledan> it's bad behaviour
<shauno> that just reminds me of the bad old days when we had to compile config files  (yes, looking at you sendmail)
<diddledan> eww
<shauno> but it's not an answer, just a proverbial 2cents
<diddledan> sendmail was evil
<diddledan> m4?! wtf!
<diddledan> m4 was never intended for human consumption
<diddledan> ever
<diddledan> I think exim is another one that does programmatic config files
<diddledan> .. just without the precompile step
<shauno> iirc debian still have a list for deb/dpkg.  but if you do go that way, I'd make very clear to them whether or not you intend for this to land in a distro, etc
<shauno> otherwise they're quite likely to maul you with best practices instead
<ging> anyone know how to get to a reovery console on ubuntu 14.04 when you have encrypted harddrives?
<diddledan> surely it's the same as when you don't?
<ging> yeah it is
<ging> i thought it would be a lot harder
<m0nkey_> ging, unless you have the password or recovery key, you're kinda out of luck.
<ging> m0nkey_: i had the key, it was fine, i just expected it to make me manually do something to decrypt, but it starts that for you anyway, just with a less fancy input box
<mapp> grmpf work time
<diddledan> mapp, is grmpf short for "grum pfuttock"?
<diddledan> (that's a phrase my daddy likes)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mswx0dfqn4kj7ho/IMG_20150226_190501.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> Portal 2 on my HTPC, using Steam streaming from my desktop upstairs :o
<diddledan> your steam stream is streaming steam?
<ali1234> now stream it on twitch
<daftykins> :P
<daftykins> steam encodes it and throws it over the LAN, then directs input from the endpoint back to the host too
<ali1234> they need to make that work on phones
<ali1234> and tablets
<ali1234> this would be an absolute killer feature
<daftykins> Microsoft are with the xbox one :>
<ali1234> yeah but microsoft sux and xbox sux
<ali1234> and presumably it only works on microsoft phones that nobody uses or cares about except directhex :P
<diddledan> ex bone
<daftykins> nice 12 year old comments there
<daftykins> no it's gonna be android and iOS
<ali1234> that's slightly better then
<ali1234> but i'm still not going to buy an xbox for that when i already have a PC
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> i'd want to throw a good Â£150+ at a newer graphics card if i really cared about PC gaming, which i don't
<daftykins> my ol' core 2 quad is getting a bit ancient now though
<daftykins> 7 years old now
<daftykins> but has a GTX 560 Ti
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-27
<foobarry> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<foobarry> phew
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> Morning
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> rats my storage box has broken :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: you weren't using centos were you?
<foobarry> ikea?
<MooDoo> davmor2: no the machine that's bust is using windows 7, so I've just purchased 2 new WD red drives for an ubuntu storage server
<davmor2> MooDoo: there's your problem right there damn it ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's only just started with the dreaded bsod, but it's my main storage server, the drives get delivered tomorrow so I should be ok by the end of the day
<davmor2> MooDoo: why for something so important would you not use the more reliable system there?
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's something that was setup years ago and i've never been bothered to change it, as it was working fine up until now.
<davmor2> MooDoo: fair enough
<MooDoo> davmor2: it'll be an ubuntu box by the evd of tomorrow :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> MooDoo: \o/
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Strawberry Day! :-D
<MooDoo> howdy JamesTait
<popey> mmmm strawberry
<foobarry> firefox on android has adblock
<foobarry> this is good news
<NET||abuse> yay, ubuntu...
<NET||abuse> not sure why, just had to be said... Getting the xps13 today.... hope it works
<popey> oooh
<popey> the new new new one?
<davmor2> NET||abuse: why wouldn't it work
<foobarry> i'm trying to use putty on a windows VM that doesn't have persistent storage (although i have a network drive).
<foobarry> is there a portable putty that will store my sessions?
<NET||abuse> popey: yeh, got the one with the intel chipset and the i7 5600
<popey> sweet!
<NET||abuse> rather than the fake pcie sata
<NET||abuse> so 256G ssd rather than 512, but i reakon driver support will be btter for the wifi
<NET||abuse> or, sorry,, was it 5500U and 5600U
<NET||abuse> or some other number, can't remember now
<NET||abuse> I was right, i7-5600U,,,
<popey> heh
<popey> numbers are hard
<popey> lets go shopping!
<NET||abuse> davmor2: there's been a few reports of audio issues, and not sure about touchpad
<NET||abuse> otherwise, the dw wifi i'm not sure what kind of drivers are available, so i opted for intel wifi cihp
<NET||abuse> 7265, as the 7260 works reasonably well on my xps15
<davmor2> JamesTait: I can see you celebrating by play with these http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5309/5616987891_b33d978b6f.jpg
<JamesTait> Busted!
<NET||abuse> "numbers are hard" "lets go shopping" ? Where these two messages related?
<NET||abuse> popey: ^^
<popey> :)
<NET||abuse> hehe :)
<NET||abuse> Â£100, Â£1000, they're nearly the same
<NET||abuse> this year has been such a revamp of my home tech setup,, finally after 10 years I bought a tv for the first time.
<NET||abuse> 40" samsung 4k
<NET||abuse> resetup my n40L with 24TB of disks
<NET||abuse> got a pi b+ and the odroid-c1 and a new tplink wifi router. so everything just got upgraded
<NET||abuse> feeling like I my geekyness is finally reflected in my home, at least my living room
<popey> :)
<NET||abuse> right, onward,
<NET||abuse> need to draw up a decent network diagram, looking at Dia, the stencils dont look quite good enough
<NET||abuse> anyone else have a goto when they need to produce a decent looking network diagram?
<foobarry> NET||abuse: use pencil
<foobarry> simple but really nice to use and multi platform
<NET||abuse> yeh, i've looked at that before..
<NET||abuse> i'll give it another look so.
<NET||abuse> download the deb file? or use a browser plugin?
<foobarry> i use the standalone version
<foobarry> i have 2.0.3 version on here
<foobarry> had it already open
<NET||abuse> 2.0.5 deb file is available
<foobarry> i have 12.04LTS on here, might be relevant
<popey> NET||abuse: http://asciiflow.com/
<NET||abuse> huh... what's that app?
<NET||abuse> hahaha, love it
<popey> :)
<NET||abuse> ascii art diagram tool
<popey> ya
<NET||abuse> brilliant
<NET||abuse> for now i need a real drawing tool, but i'm coming back to asciiflow for smaller diagrams later
<NET||abuse> that'll be fun.
<NET||abuse> hmm, need a network/servers template set for pencil.
<awilkins> And gdrive support
<awilkins> Oh neato
<awilkins> To that ASCII thing
<NET||abuse> yeh, saw that.
<awilkins> I love that the text tool... just inserts text
<awilkins> Some tools for doing git revision graphs would be awesome
<awilkins> DAmmit, my dah is doing that thing where it just flicks up and then closes
<awilkins> *dash
<awilkins> Hmm, heap big compiz update queued
 * awilkins installs
<knightwise> hmmm... thinking about ofshoring some tasks I have running on a local VM to my raspberry pi. Command line stuff like irssi, newsbeuter and such.
<intrbiz> a sheet of paper and a pencil is by far the best diagramming tool
<foobarry> intrbiz: peencil is quite close
<NET||abuse> it arrived
<NET||abuse> xps13 is on my desk
<NET||abuse> it's really tiny
<knightwise> NET||abuse: ME JEALOUS !
<knightwise> are you gonna run buntu on it ? Cuz not everything is supperted yet
<NET||abuse> i'll have to take photo's of it beside the behemoth xps15
<NET||abuse> knightwise: i know, but yes, i am
<knightwise> NET||abuse: I would love to know what you can get working on it and what not. I'm waiting to get one untill the ubuntu support is complete
<knightwise> I need it for my company (freelance IT consultant)
<NET||abuse> i'm a devops contractor, so that's my exuse, bought it through my own company
<knightwise> Are ya gonna dual boot it ?
<NET||abuse> hmm, dont think so
<NET||abuse> I really dont have any desire to have windows at all
<NET||abuse> and with 256G drive, i'm not willing to spare the space
<NET||abuse> has anyone asked for a windows licence refund from dell lately?
<NET||abuse> i'm thinking i'm just gonna do that now
<knightwise> So far everything works out of the box for buntu except the soundcard i believe ?
<NET||abuse> yeh, that's what i've heard also
<NET||abuse> the broadcom wifi model is a little work to get working, but i did intel wifi so i should be out of the box
<knightwise> can you choose that when you order ?
<NET||abuse> the offer is funny, you get the intel wifi and the i7-5600U but only a 256GB ssd
<NET||abuse> if you want the 512GB fake pcie (mobility) you have to choose the i7-5500 and the DW broadcom wifi
 * knightwise will have to watch that when I order
<NET||abuse> there's four variants of the xps13
<knightwise> to tie me over untill the XPS was fully supported I installed Ubuntu on my old Surface pro 1 . Also pretty nifty high dev screen and an 11 inch form factor
<NET||abuse> one with i5 and 1080(FHD) screen, then 3 with 4k, then they vary with processor, wifi and ssd
<NET||abuse> so i went with linux support wifi rather than ssd side
<NET||abuse> size
<NET||abuse> also, slightly faster version of the processor ;)
<knightwise> so you got the one with the UHD screen ?
<NET||abuse> yeh
<NET||abuse> so both my laptops are UHD
<NET||abuse> ooh, xps13 channel here on freenode
<intrbiz> I have a previous gen XPS 13, if it came with an Intel WiFI card, I'd recommend buying an atheros of ebay (around Â£5) and swapping it
<NET||abuse> intrbiz: really?
<NET||abuse> i'm supprised by that.
<NET||abuse> I thought intel were pretty good with driver support? Is it more just signal quality?
<NET||abuse> I've had pretty shakey performance on the wifi other than my home network on the xps15, 7260 intel wifi
<NET||abuse> so this xps has the 7265 intel wifi, i presume I iwll have similar experience.
<knightwise> NET||abuse: when are you going to do the install ?
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001CXX5I8 is in my basket
<popey> been told it works well
<davmor2> intrbiz: there was a big kernel patch for intel wifi the issue is resolve in vivid or utopic iirc
<intrbiz> davmor2: no amount of kernel patches can correct the awfulness which is the Intel WiFi hardware
<popey> meh
<popey> its their driver that sucks
<popey> same for the gpu
<popey> feels like Intel dropped the linux driver ball about 18 months ago.
<intrbiz> Intel seriously make the worst WiFi cards around, coupled with buggy firmware, buggy drivers and a dev team who don't really care
<zmoylan-pi> does their hardware suck under windows?
<intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: yes
<intrbiz> their windows WiFi drivers are just a bad
<zmoylan-pi> it can be hard to tell with higher level of background suckiness :-)
<intrbiz> I used to get firmware crashes, which required a reboot, it was a well reported issue to dell
<NET||abuse> aparently i'm going to need an external sound device for the time being with this laptop
<diplo> Any apple users in here ? A friend has a 13" Macbook laptop
<moreati> diplo: yes
<diplo> Doesn't seem to have any DVI/HDMI ports... how do you connect to external monitors ?
<diplo> Never used an Apple laptop bnefore
<zmoylan-pi> there's probably an expensive addon to add that ability
<diplo> I was guessing that
<moreati> diplo: the laptop has either a mini-dvi, or mini-displayport socket. depending on it's age
<diplo> 2008~ I believe
<diplo> OK, I'll see how bad they are
<moreati> an a mini-dp -> vga is about Â£20 from Apple or Â£10 for a third-party one
<diplo> Thinking of going down the Chromecast route instead, she watches Hulu in the states alot and wants to watch stuff whilst she's here through a VPN onto her telly
<diplo> Wondering whether she can start on the macbook and send to Chromecast via the vpn... not sure how it works :)
<moreati> if all you need is streaming video, the chromecast is my recommendation
<popey> diplo: not easily
<moreati> chromecast has to be on the same wifi lan
<diplo> Maybe just easier to carry on paying for the subscription and I aquire her the episode and setup a RaspPI media centre :)
<moreati> 2008  macbooks were mini-dvi http://support.apple.com/kb/SP5 a suitable adaptor would be http://www.amazon.co.uk/Converter-Adapter-Cable-Apple-Macbook/dp/B00ABBO6O4
<NET||abuse> knightwise: i've just done the 14.10 installation on the xps13
<moreati> or http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mini-DVI-female-Adapter-Cable-Apple/dp/B001PVUIL4
<knightwise> NET||abuse: :) What is the verdict
<NET||abuse> installer worked without any isuses,
<NET||abuse> mouse works, keyboard works, 4k resolution, even touch screen draging windows works
<NET||abuse> audio,, probably not, but i'll try anyway.
<NET||abuse> wifi works
<NET||abuse> infact, seemed to get on the wifi in this office far more easily than the xps15 finds it every day (several minutes worth of fussing to get that online int he mornings)
<knightwise> ok , so audio , touchpad and special keys
<NET||abuse> ok, touchpad seems a little funny, two finger touch seems to work, i can scroll, but i seem to have to tap with two fingers again to unlock the mouse again
<NET||abuse> that's not too bad, maybe thats an ubuntu unity feature?
<NET||abuse> no, it's a little bit funny, occasionally working and not
<NET||abuse> but overall, workable.
<NET||abuse> right, audio..
<NET||abuse> no, no device appears anywhere on the audio properties.
<knightwise> hmmm bummer
<NET||abuse> hmm, touch pad is a little funy, alt + double tap to drag a window,, semms to be a bit sticky, have to doubletap again to release the window
<NET||abuse> but that's ok.
<NET||abuse> the no audio is completely a known issue.
<NET||abuse> now, special keys...
<NET||abuse> display brightness up and down, wifi on off work
<NET||abuse> will be hard to test audio and media play fassforward/back untill i have audio working
<NET||abuse> .. next.. sleep/suspend/resune
<knightwise> NET||abuse: thats the only think I havent gotten to work on my Surface pro 1
<NET||abuse> yep, wosk
<NET||abuse> works
<NET||abuse> sleep on lid close and resume all worked.
<diplo> thanks moreati and popey
<knightwise> awesome
<knightwise> that wsa the only thing that I cant get working on the surface 1
<NET||abuse> i'm somewhat impressed by the wifi on this xps13,, it jioned this network very easily.
<NET||abuse> far easier than the 7260 chip, not sure why.
<knightwise> I have one of these marvel chips in this surface pro
<knightwise> very unreliable
<intrbiz> NET||abuse: what WiFi chip is in your XPS13?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: ticket for RAT obtained
<bigcalm> intrbiz: good show :)
<bigcalm> intrbiz: so you've added a comment to the event page too? ;)
<intrbiz> bigcalm: I'ved attempted to, but having registered for an Ubuntu One account, I get a login failure when trying to login to Loco :(
<popey> yay!
<intrbiz> 'An attribute required for logging in was not returned (nickname).'
<bigcalm> davmor2: I blame you
<davmor2> meh
<davmor2> I don't test u1 blame popey
<dutchie> hmm, might try ubuntu on my n7 after seeing that "Convergence in action" video
<dutchie> since i barely use the thing
<ujjain> Anybody hear familiar with London Theater? I'd like to know which would be best for somebody with mediocre to poor English understanding, Les Miserables, Lion King, Phantom of the Opera
<NET||abuse> intrbiz: the xps13 i have uses the intel 7265 wifi chip
<popey> dutchie: needs to be nexus 7 2013
<dutchie> i think mine is
<popey> ujjain: phantom is good.
<popey> I saw it in New York. More singing than speech.
<ujjain> even with limited english knowledge? my friend is from Mexico
<popey> yeah
<ujjain> ahh, that should be good then
<ujjain> ah cool
<popey> its a well known enough story too
<popey> good production.
<popey> get a programme :)
<dutchie> oh it is. thought they had released a version after it
<ujjain> get a programme?
<popey> ujjain: printed material at the theatre
<ujjain> like a programme to spend the day? restaurant, theater, etc?
<ujjain> ahhh, right :P
<popey> :)
<popey> your friend's first time in London?
<ujjain> thanks, I should yaeh
<ujjain> 2nd time
<popey> be a nice thing to take away
<ujjain> I don't know what that means either :(
<ujjain> ahhh
<ujjain> the flyer would be nice to bring back home?
<ujjain> I feel my IQ has gone down from doing a year nothin gat work, I changed jobs 3 weeks ago, so I have to learn to use my brain again
<ujjain> do you want to see a lion watching lion king? http://i.imgur.com/MMx4eIA.gif #2 /r/funny :P
<popey> yes.
<popey> sorry, I'll use more words next time.
<NET||abuse> xps13 setup and working...... audio and all
<ujjain> no worries, appreciate your help always :)
<NET||abuse> now, time for LUNCH, then have to work out a sync setup to keep the two laptops fairly interchangable for my user.
<NET||abuse> I have the n40L at home to relay my syncing through, so just need to setup a configuration I can use on both laptops.
<NET||abuse> but for now... LUNCH
<popey> NET||abuse: syncthing
<marxjohnson> Just discovered through reddit that the german title of Airplane! translates as "The unbelievable journey of a crazy airplane". I expect popey will appreciate that.
<popey> I love that film
<marxjohnson> I have a t-shirt with the logo of the company Sirus on the front, whenever I read it I think, "I am Sirius, and dont call me Shirley"
<marxjohnson> s/Sirus/Sirius
<popey> The cockpit!? What is it!?
<popey> etc
<popey> "No, the white phone!"
<marxjohnson> White phone? I dont remember that bit somehow
<NET||abuse> backup challenges,,, want to sync to my home server and back down to second laptop, but need to be able to hit the internal ip when at home and the no-ip.org hostname when out and about.
<marxjohnson> I
<popey> the courtesy phone
<NET||abuse> popey: i don' think i can use syncthing as the government office here wont like me using torrent on their network
<popey> its not torrent
<marxjohnson> syncthing isnt torrent
<NET||abuse> ohhh
<NET||abuse> didn't realize
<popey> no more or less than dropbox is torrent
<marxjohnson> I do something similar with btsync, I just have everything pointed to the dynamic dns hostname, but have an internal dns server that points it to the local IP instead of the public one
<marxjohnson> I think I'm using dnsmasq
<NET||abuse> marxjohnson: yeh, splithorizon
<marxjohnson> sorry, syncthing not btsync
<diplo> Syncthing +1 here as well
<bashrc> Owncloud?
<diplo> I keep wanting to try owncloud again, but see quite a few everything got deleted/mangled posts :/
<marxjohnson> My experience of owncloud sync hasn't been good. Not used it for several versions but heard similar stories to mine about newer versions
<shauno> I had no problems with the web side of it, and no sync with the problem side of it.
<diplo> I'd like to move from Google Contacts/Calendar to a personal one, so that's the reason I was going to give it a go again
<marxjohnson> yeah, contacts/calendr workds like a charm
<marxjohnson> and the web interface does too, so I just sync stuff to it with syncthing
<diplo> I like that idea actually, sync to owncloud with syncthing :)
<marxjohnson> you've just got to get the file permissions right so that synced stuff is readble by owncloud, and stuff uploaded/created by owncloud is syncable
<knightwise> anyone have any experience running Owncloud on a raspberrypi ?
<diplo> http://www.pestmeester.nl did a good tutorial on it :)
<diddledan> knightwise, need lots of usb discs for that :-p
<diddledan> I don't suppose there's much difference in cpu grunt between a pi and low-end NASes tho
<diddledan> pi2 might even be more grunt that mid-range nases
<knightwise> thinking about moving off some of my virtual machines to Raspberry pies
<diddledan> aye, I like the idea of pi-based systems instead of VMs
<shauno> not sure I do.  you need to seriously overcomit VMs before they have IO anywhere near as bad as the Pis
<ali1234> the pi is a media soc, not a server
<shauno> right.  that cpu was pretty much designed to pick up a file and shove it into videocore
<knightwise> true. Do you guys now another light http file-download interface ?
<knightwise> like an http frontend to ftp ?
<shauno> like the directory-index stuff that's built into apache?
<ali1234> lighttpd with autoindexes?
<knightwise> something like that ,
<knightwise> soimething simple for my clients to pickup files and upload them
<diplo> Use something like this knightwise  https://blueimp.github.io/jQuery-File-Upload/ ??
<NET||abuse> hey folks,,, what's anyone opinion on the web upd8 repos'? I tried them once before, a year or two ago, and i remember it caused some dependancy hell issues.
<NET||abuse> But today, i was trying to use mpv to stream a youtube video, but it said youtube-dl wasn't new enough
<NET||abuse> the only place i've found a youtube-dl update is web upd8, so i'm not happy about that.
<popey> I'd get youtube-dl from upstream
<popey> and stick it in ~/bin
<popey> then update it separately
<ChloeWolfieGirl> NET||abuse, if you're trying to stream videos why don't you use VLC? just out of intrest, and I do love youtube-dl x3
<NET||abuse> ChloeWolfieGirl: i tried vlc, but the video came out with all green pixel snow
<NET||abuse> not sure if it was just that one video or not, i'm going to try both on that same video now in a sec
<davmor2> NET||abuse, popey: I just use mpv from the archives and it installs youtube-dl with it
<Seeker`> Leonard Nimoy died :(
 * zmoylan-pi copies trek movies to tablet to watch...
<zmoylan-pi> even st:v
<awilkins_> \\// live long and prosper
<davmor2> :'(
<diddledan> :-(
 * zmoylan-pi treasures my burger king promo for the star trek movie of speaking elder spock who says live long and prosper even more now
 * zmoylan-pi puts on amazing grace played on bagpipes... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO5y2O_hv3I
<diddledan> that's a good rendition
<zmoylan-pi> good bagpipers can belt out any tune
<zmoylan-pi> once for a scotland-ireland game a bagpiper set up on a traffic island in centre of dublin.  surrounded by rush hour traffic he could be heard over crowds and traffic.  bloody impressive
<DJones> My favourite version of Amazing is a commercial release wby Andre Rieu, it has to be done with bagpipes
<DJones> s/Amazing/Amazing Grace/
 * zmoylan-pi digs up amazing grace by andre rieu for a listen... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GD-5mRyaJw
 * zmoylan-pi hopes the video is more than just the opening tune...
 * DJones bans zmoylan-pi for posting links to copyrighted material
<zmoylan-pi> oops... sorry...
<DJones> Anyway, that perofrmance sends shivers down my spine
<diddledan> 2 minutes in and he hasn't started playing yet
<zmoylan-pi> paddies day coming up, i might have a wander to city centre for the parade, lots of bag pipers there...
<DJones> diddledan: 2 seconds in from that link it starts playing
<diddledan> it does, he doesn't
<DJones> diddledan: Exactly
<DJones> How many conductors play over the music of their choir/muscians
<diddledan> he's not a conductor, he's a violineriser
<DJones> Maybe, but for the performances, he's conductor
<diddledan> about half-way through he starts playing
<DJones> Sounds about right
<DJones> At the end of the day, he#s a performer, he has has his own orchestra behind him for his shows
 * diddledan pushes final commit of the day
<diddledan> now to wait for jenkins to build and deploy to dev
<diddledan> geoip sucks
<diddledan> I'm not in britain according to the national lottery, but http://www.geoip.co.uk/ipwhois.php?ip=86.2.5.224
<shauno> I keep breaking it with v6
<shauno> facebook keeps giving me ads for Fremont, California
<diddledan> I haven't got v6 enabled atm
<shauno> (I imagine that's more the he.net tunnel than v6, but still - my endpoint is in london)
<diddledan> yeah, he.net don't care about localising their v6 tunnels
<diddledan> they've just got a block of american v6 IPs and because they're backbone providers they don't need to reassign them at all
<diddledan> thing is the point of IP routing is that it's entirely non-geographic
<diddledan> so assigning geographic to an IP is backasswards to begin with
<zmoylan-pi> unless the lawyers for sony or their ilk say it isn't
<daftykins> tum te tum
<popey> *belch*
<popey> pizza & pepsi \o/
<daftykins> ooh err, where from?
<zmoylan-pi> a bottle which is a weird place to find a pizza
 * dutchie waits for nexus 7 to charge sufficiently to be ubuntufied
<popey> Dominos
<daftykins> we of course have no such chains :)
<popey> shame
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure you have some terrible chain that fills that ecological niche...
<daftykins> only recently so i hear, there's some place doing delivery pizza which is meant to be quite impressive
<daftykins> but growing up delivery pizza was definitely non-existant
<zmoylan-pi> a company i worked for wrote software for a pizza chain here in ireland.  apache pizza, you've dealt with the cowboys...
<zmoylan-pi> we did once get a support call where a new staff member rang technical support as he couldn't find the cheese...  an actual out of cheese error :-)
<daftykins> O_O
<zmoylan-pi> and when sick pcs came back in they usually smelt of bread from the flour on the hot chips
<shauno> dominos is amazing.  which is to say, mediocre (here at least), but I can order on teh internuts without trying to spell my address to someone else who can't pronounce it either ..
<shauno> (which isn't to criticize them - I can't pronounce it in the first place, so trying to read it to another immigrant is hilarious, but fruitless)
<zmoylan-pi> yes, reading irish names to non irish people can be confusing... no really the f is actually spelt ph... :-)
<shauno> right. so imagine non-irish people reading irish names to non-irish people ;)
<zmoylan-pi> when i bought an iphone in 2008 it was quicker for me to type my info into the computer than allow the poor eastern european behind counter try and work out where all the letters and fadas went
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> it's kinda like listening to the bbc read irish placenames.  much mangling is involved.
<daftykins> yeah the phonimes just don't translate into characters for me
<daftykins> i was visiting my friend in Limerick when she was like 'go to this etailers website to find a graphics card' but i just couldn't understand what she was saying XD
<zmoylan-pi> a german friends girlfriend though took it to a new level when she had to stop pronouncing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macgillycuddy%27s_Reeks half way through the word as she got lost
<shauno> I just say what I see, catchphrase-style.  the results are usually hilarious, but sometimes embarassing  (like when I discovered aoife doesn't rhyme with oik)
<zmoylan-pi> and she was trying to tell friends at a party to go there so she'd poke me all through the party to say the word for her
<zmoylan-pi> eee-fa simple, isn't it? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it's because irish was a written language before english existed and some of the letters around now were non existant too :-)
<zmoylan-pi> so we made it up as we went along.  mind we did invent the space.  so you're welcome :-)
<diddledan> shauno, aoife is actually one I think I can pronounce
<diddledan> I say it "eefer"
<zmoylan-pi> of course then there are americans with irish names that have been mangled by living outside ireland
<diddledan> with a soft r
<zmoylan-pi> well i'm a dub so skip the r :-)
<shauno> I genuinely had no idea :(
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> niamh I know, too
<zmoylan-pi> knee-ve
<diddledan> but there's a dude somewhere I came across with o'coimh (I think I spelt that right)
<shauno> another was eoin, which I read as 'ian'.  so when our new boss was introduced as Owen, I couldn't figure out who this Ian sending us emails was
<zmoylan-pi> it's obvious really :-P
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-pi> o'coimh oh-keeve
<daftykins> well, forget all that lot immediately ^ let alone giving it a go in a loud pub :P
<zmoylan-pi> there's about 40-50 little rules with irish words, placenames you get beaten into you at school
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, that was my guess only with more of an F than a V
<shauno> the last street I lived on didn't even have the same spelling on every streetsign :(
<diddledan> shauno, welsh does that, too
<zmoylan-pi> well welsh is just weird :-)
<shauno> that's why it's impossible to fire a postie.  if they don't give their notes to the next guy, the whole game is over
<zmoylan-pi> completely unrelated to scots/irish
<diddledan> of course the word "gaelic" sounds perverted
<daftykins> now you've gone and done it, dan!
 * zmoylan-pi points to a number of bars diddledan should try that joke in... :-P
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> they'd probably have you wait outside for a minute till someone can download an mp3 of a record needle been dragged of a record when you entered... :-D
<diddledan> lol @ slack's mac app changelog: "Fixed: Doing a quick Look in the file upload dialog would sometimes hide the file picker when the quick look closed. You no longer are required to play peekaboo with your software."
<dutchie> 2015/02/27 21:43:42 Flashing version 1 from devel channel and server https://system-image.ubuntu.com to device flo
<Azelphur> Has anyone got Linux on Android working with Android 5?
<Azelphur> I'm getting lots of errors about libsigchain.so and it is generally broken (X doesn't start, it asks for a password then says authentication failure)
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> yey, payday pizza is out for delivery
<Azelphur> diddledan: did you see my shenanigans with graphics cards and ovens?
<diddledan> I saw something, not sure I understood
<diddledan> I believe it was mention that something with an oven worked but I didn't really grok what happened
<diddledan> was it dry solder-joints?
<Azelphur> diddledan: my graphics card was broken so I baked it in the oven at 196C for 8 minutes
<Azelphur> may well have been
<diddledan> that would explain why baking it worked but I may be off-base
<Azelphur> yea
<diddledan> either that or you frightened it into compliance
<mapp> hi all
<diddledan> allo mapp
<Azelphur> I'm gonna go with the latter because it's cooler
<diddledan> "every time you stop doing as you're told, I'm going to put you in the 'oven' to correct your ways!"
<diddledan> s/to/till you/
<diddledan> that works better
<Azelphur> exactly.
<diddledan> the corrollary is putting a hard disc into the freezer
<daftykins> there were a lot of nvidia model laptops and cards that went funky with the BGA bonds to the board, yeah
<daftykins> a wee oven cooking gives them the chance to slightly reattach enough
<diddledan> one of the playstations had bga joints badly soldered, too, to the point that there were vans full of geeky-thugs going round the neighbourhoods fleecing unsuspecting teenagers and fixing their playstations
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> they just knocked on doors to find victims?
<diddledan> they basically decked out the van with a bga jig which reseated it
<diddledan> I'm not sure how they rounded-up their clients
<zmoylan-pi> flyers in local video game stores?
<diddledan> maybe
<Azelphur> gonna try MultiROM Ubuntu touch, I wonder how well Ubuntu touch fares as a "Desktop" OS
<Azelphur> I want a Desktop OS on my N7 :P
<diddledan> Azelphur, which model?
<diddledan> 2012 or 13?
<daftykins> well, i slightly admire you always having some scheme cooking, Azelphur ;)
<Azelphur> diddledan: 13
<Azelphur> daftykins: thanks :P
<diddledan> mine's the first gen :-(
<daftykins> i seem to have made a pile o' tech on the corner of my desk 0o
<daftykins> 2007 macbook white, some old AMD dual core HP laptop, an HP touchpad tablet, an iPad and my ancient Sony ultraportable from before netbooks appeared
<Azelphur> diddledan: I had a first gen, found a real cheap deal on 2nd gens though so bought one and gave the first gen to my mum
<Azelphur> diddledan: don't suppose you happen to want a bt keyboard for your first gen btw?
<daftykins> has the first gen been abandoned by Google yet? what android did it top out at?
<Azelphur> it's still supported
<Azelphur> and thus on the latest version of Android
<daftykins> ah-har
<diddledan> I don't suppose the 2012 model (first gen) will receive any more major releases tho
<daftykins> nah, probably like my Nexus 4 now too
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-28
<m0nkey_> ... my neighbour has left their dog outside.. it's -11C, poor thing must be freezing. it hasn't shut up barking either.
<diddledan> :-o
<daftykins> =|
<daftykins> i don't think i would let that slide
<diddledan> it's probably chilly willy
<m0nkey_> oop.. barking stopped
<m0nkey_> lets hope they've let the poor guy indoors
<m0nkey_> I got home 30mins ago, he was barking all that time
<m0nkey_> OMG.. House of Cards season 3 is now available :D
<daftykins> i never even finished season 1
<m0nkey_> wow, netflix is getting in fast with the latest movies recently
<m0nkey_> grand Budapest hotel is already available
<daftykins> wasn't that from at least 8+ months ago?
<daftykins> i have no idea
<m0nkey_> march 14
<m0nkey_> *2014
<m0nkey_> that's still pretty fast
<mapp> yo
<Myrtti> mm
<diddledan> allo
<mapp> not slept i guess?:D
<diddledan> bingo
<mapp> ;]
<mapp> up to much?
<diddledan> fiddling with elasticsearch and logstash
<mapp> hm dunno what either are;]
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> allo
<brobostigon> morning diddledan
<SuperEngineer> Saturday fun - if your vehicle tracking device's website won't let you log in - hack into your managers's account instead... much more interesting :D
<popey> :)
<SuperEngineer> hi popey
<popey> hello
<diddledan> SuperEngineer, n0rty boy
<diddledan> SuperEngineer, gonna do a talk on it at any hacker conferences?
<diddledan> :-p
<SuperEngineer> diddledan, hmm, might do a talk on "changing the manager's password" - that could be fun.... if you're into professional suicide that is, *but is soooo tempting*
<shauno> I showed our product's manager his password once.  got the job done :)
<SuperEngineer> :)
<shauno> we had a web form that was populating the password field with the actual password.  the first time I complained, they 'fixed' it by disabling right-click (?)
<Azelphur> Anyone here using an xbox 360 controller with the wireless receiver?
<SuperEngineer> Azelphur, just for info, these days we call a "wireless reciever" a "radio" ;)
<shauno> I use a logitech one. doesn't help, but no complaints here :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> yea, I can't get controllers to pair with it
<mapp> yo
<diddledan> moobs
<mapp> ;]
<MooDoo> howdy all
 * SuperEngineer checks user list... nope, nobody here called "all" ;)
<mapp> not a bad day today
<mapp> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-8pTi1UQAAk_gA.jpg
<mapp> as picture confirms
<mapp> :D
<penguin42> bit wet here
<mapp> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-d0yOGIIAAgyNa.jpg:large
<mapp> water everywhere
<mapp> ;D
<Myrtti> hiphei England
<penguin42> mapp: Yeh well it's better when you keep your water in the sea
<mapp> ;D
<DJones> Had a nice afternoon walking the dog round Delamere Forest,  followed by lunch at the cafe, surprised it stayed dry, but was good weather
 * penguin42 has only been to Delamere once, one of the nearer Go Ape's
<mapp> im off to work..cya!
<mapp> no idea where that even is
<DJones> Its only 20 minutes from us,  so a short trip for a relaxing afternoon
<shauno> you have no idea where work is?  lol
<DJones> mapp: You should know where work is
<mapp> pah:P
<penguin42> mapp: Delamere is a forest, Go Ape is a tree based rope course
<mapp> Delamere
<DJones> mapp: Near Frodsham/Helsby etc
<DJones> North west England
 * penguin42 guesses DJones' is more on the cheshire/chester side?
<DJones> penguin42: Yes, Daresbury/Preston Brook side of Runcorn
<mapp> hm
<penguin42> DJones: Ah, manchester/bury
<mapp> i see
<mapp> nowhere near me then
<DJones> penguin42: Not really, 25 miles from Manchester, probably 30+ to Bury
<DJones> Slightly nearer to Liverpool
<penguin42> DJones: No, I'm between Manchester/bury
<DJones> Ah, ok
<ging> on an standard ubuntu setup, should opening a terminal in unity make an entry in lastlog?
<penguin42> hmm, don't have a unity install here; but I suspect not
<penguin42> hmm, mind you konsole does
<ging> mine is doing it after i have been doing some messing around with pam, but i can't tell if that is because i have messed something up, or it always did it
<shauno> does terminal have an option for whether it's a 'login shell' or not?
<ali1234> which terminal?
<ging> gnome terminal
<ali1234> i think the terminal itself doesn't care
<ali1234> just tell it to execute bash -l or whatever
<ging> i think maybe it always has updated, i just can't figure out how openssh and console logins are reporting the last login without reporting these terminal session as last login
<ging> ah lastlog and lastb are not the same thing
<ging> *last
<ging> they get it from lastlog not last
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-01
<mapp> hi
<mapp> ;]
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - ever this morning Steam update psu running high 50-60% when it should be idling...
<SuperEngineer> load averages for last 1,5,15 mins = 1.68, 1.66, 1.68 :(
<SuperEngineer> ever *since
<SuperEngineer> ...but could be a coincidence with the steam update - doesn't seem to matter whether is loaded or not
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<BaNaer_Liffan> Hi, is there someone here could help me with Ubuntu wireless please?
<SuperEngineer> Thunderbirds movie on Ch5 at 13:15 folks.  [a.k.a childhood revisited] ;)
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: the animated one, or the live action one?
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon, guide doesn't say exactly but does say... "starring Bill Paxton & Ben Kingsley" so I guess it's not animated
<brobostigon> i see.
<SuperEngineer> but, you know... *Thunderbirds* ! [or there's always tythe rugby... not sure I'd notice the difference ;)
<daftykins> :D
<SuperEngineer> random question: why were "records" called "records" when they should have been pronouned "reecords"?
<SuperEngineer> they were "reecorded" not "rehcorded"!
<SuperEngineer> [funny what goes through your mind whilst waiting for nom noms :)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: No, I rehcord on something, not reecord
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, oh no don't....
<SuperEngineer> [darn these regional accents!]
<penguin42> Well, I mean it wouldn't make sense to Reecord something on a Record would it
<SuperEngineer> no, but that's because they were "reecordings" :p
<SuperEngineer> ...& it's Thunderbirds time!
<SuperEngineer> ..r should that be "Thunderboyds"?
<SuperEngineer> :D
<penguin42> definitely birds
<zmoylan-pi> the theme tune for thunderbirds is excellent alarm music :-)
<zmoylan-pi> ditto stingray...
<shauno> not entirely sure I Want to wake up to "this is the voice of the mysterons" though
<SuperEngineer> we know you can hear us Earthlings
<diddledan> evening
 * diddledan just accidentally bought a pair of physical media-based movies
<diddledan> I really suck
<penguin42> get out the projector then
<diddledan> I did at least make sure they were UV-enabled
<diddledan> so not all is lost
 * zmoylan-pi bought a bunch of dvds on friday.  most ripped already
<diddledan> got home just in time methinks - it's widdling it down now
<diddledan> first rip underway
<diddledan> 31GB
<diddledan> not bad for one movie :-p
<penguin42> ok ok what were the films you got?
<diddledan> eh? it thinks it's gonna take over 5 hours (now up to 5:30) to rip this sucker
<diddledan> godzilla and live, die, repeat: The edge of tomorrow
<penguin42> hmm
<diddledan> wow, WD make 6TB RED drives now
<diddledan> me needs a few
<penguin42> yeh I guess you need big drives to hold godzilla
<diddledan> indeed
<zmoylan-pi> mars attacks, spies like us
<penguin42> ack ack!
<zmoylan-pi> ack ack ack
<penguin42> indeed
<zmoylan-pi> terrible campy scifi.  excellent
<diddledan> mars attacks was great
<penguin42> nod
<diddledan> I loved that they used modern tech to emulate 60s style scifi
<diddledan> e.g. flying saucers
<zmoylan-pi> some of the best sci fi is /terrible/ sci fi... tremors...
<diddledan> tremors, now that is a great movie
<directhex> we bought a bunch of 6T disks for the office
<directhex> to increase our NAS
<zmoylan-pi> tremors 2 + 3 are good as well
<diddledan> yeah, I've seen all three and enjoyed them all
<zmoylan-pi> why do you have cannon fuse?
<diddledan> I like the radio-controlled toy car bombs
<diddledan> or toy tanks
<penguin42> I saw Storage 24 (On Film 4??) the other day - very B film
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<penguin42> evenin' bigcalm
<bigcalm> What's happening kids?
<penguin42> not much
<bigcalm> Yay
<bigcalm> I haven't typed this for a while
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 19th September 2015 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3040-real-ale-train-2015/
<dutchie> rat \o/
<bigcalm> dutchie: good to have you with us this year
<dutchie> yes :)
<bigcalm> At least I can't make the same gaff of when we 1st met in Liverpool. Where I asked if you were old enough to drink, while we were in the hipster bar
<bigcalm> If you still have the beard, then it makes for proper ale drinking. My wife don't like beards, so I have to be a pretend ale drinker
<dutchie> currently on about a week's stubble
<dutchie> who knows how much will be there come september
<daftykins> today was probably my first long cycle since my accident and recent illnesses
<daftykins> i got my ass whooped badly :P legs are sooooo tired now :D
<daftykins> https://goo.gl/maps/2BhyL
<daftykins> there's what i did
<diddledan> does the queen know she owns a road there?
<diddledan> she ought to charge rent
<diddledan> how do you know which way to treat letters in placenames when it comes to saying it out loud - i.e. ruette des effards <-- how do you know that's french?
<diddledan> like st pierre park hotel and golf resort - is that "saynt" or "san"?
<daftykins> it's worse than that :) we pronounce things halfway between French and English
<moreati> diddledan: buy a database with included pronunciation key, or wing it.
<moreati> or if you're the BBC, have a pronuciation dept.
<daftykins> we pronounce that one "roo-ette dez eff 'ards
<daftykins> it's quite amusing hearing a mainlander pronounce L'islet
<daftykins> "le iz-lette"
<daftykins> but it's lee-lay :D
<foobarry> liugh need to take te bins out
<daftykins> ?
<diddledan> eff 'ards is f tards?
<foobarry> i mean
<foobarry> ugh
<foobarry> i need to take out the bins
<diddledan> daftykins, leeloo
<foobarry> grotty job just before bed
<foobarry> just bought myself a fathers day gift
<foobarry> now have to wait 3 months :S
<foobarry> or whenever it is
<mapp> jjst finished watcjing the loft..quite decent;D
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-29
<Guest56535> morning all
<MooDoo> or morning all even
<zmoylan-pi> monday, and sodding rain...  that is all...
<MooDoo> that's a good day then :)
<zmoylan-pi> though there is the new rasp pi 3 for sale... so we got that going for us...
<\sv> morning my loveable penguins
<zmoylan-pi> *sqwak*
<\sv> do penguins squark? :P
<\sv> im trying to set up google authenticator to auth into my ubuntu 15.10 laptop - as it's portable i'd like to have added security
<zmoylan-pi> get a pink laptop and put my little pony sticks all over it.... no one will ever touch it... :-)
<MooDoo> and what's wrong with MLP, Rainbow Dash is my fave :D
<popey> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc_> morning
<\sv> how toenable text mode so it auto gui's but then i have the OPTION of text in the case i break something?
<popey> wat?
<foobarry> ctrl-alt-f1
<foobarry> will give you text console
<foobarry> ctrl-alt-f7 will get you back
<\sv> foobarry, used to. no longer does it in 15.10
<foobarry> ctrl-alt-f2?
<\sv> none of them
<foobarry> wow
 * foobarry is an LTS guy
<\sv> foobarry, familier with pam?
<popey> uh
<popey> they work here
<popey> so not sure why they don't work for you
<\sv> popey, noooo pam file
<popey> I don't know what you're saying. Use more words.
<\sv> lines 29 and 30 of the code i sent you; do they look right?
<popey> i have no idea
<SuperMatt> sounds to me like someone needs to reinstall
<\sv> SuperMatt,  no. im trying to make it more secure
<foobarry> have you been fiddling \sv
<foobarry> i think you have!
<awilkins> Good morning, and happy "Bang F5 on the HTC Website Until Your Finger Gets a Blister Day"  "
<zmoylan-pi> you can hit f5 with your nose...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<sebsebseb> hi
<popey> hi
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon
<sebsebseb> yay reccurding paypal payments, when don't really want it to happen
<sebsebseb> at least I have figured out how to properly cancale those now, but after woulds
<brobostigon> hi popey and MooDoo
<MooDoo> howdy :D
<diddledan> everyone!!! PI3!!!!
<MooDoo> just been reading about them :D
<diddledan> sneaky being their birthday
<diddledan> I thought something might be up with their blog post over the weekend that had a celebration video for their birthday early purportedly to not get swamped with celebration posts today
<diddledan> omg. it's got wifi
<zmoylan-pi> but still only 1gb of ram
<popey> Yeah, there were rumours for the last week or so
<diddledan> aye
<popey> I ordered mine as soon as I saw a tweet with a url in it
<zmoylan-pi> i suppose they have to hold something back for + version
<popey> got two arriving tomorrow
<diddledan> \o/
<MooDoo> bluetooth as well diddledan
<diddledan> the pi in general is fast becoming a general-purpose PC rather than as MS would have you believe an IoT thing
<Myrtti> bit too little ram still to finally haul my sister's Dell GX620 into the electric waste
<Myrtti> I had high hopes
<diddledan> though I do think that MS' Win10IoT is a nice little OS for single-purpose devices
<diddledan> I'd like for snappy to be an equivalent thing in linuxland - the main thing I like about the Win10 is that it drives the display with a single full-screen app that can't be closed by the end-user without connecting from another device
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> allo bigcalm
<diddledan> bigcalm, he often comes-over with a violent dose of large-tranquil feelings :-p
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> Oh
<diddledan> bigcalm, being silly
<bigcalm> Or factual
<diddledan> lol
<bigcalm> I have tea, I'm happy
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> I have cola
<diddledan> I might have to wander across and get some milk so I can tea
<diddledan> to the shop*
<bigcalm> Is there an app that will kill (and hopefully report) if a process is taking 100% CPU for more than X minutes? I have to power cycle one of my Digital Ocean servers every few days because something gets its knickers in a twist and hogs the CPU forever more
<diddledan> HAH! the pi is now the UK's all-time best-selling computer!
<diddledan> hmm, not sure
<diddledan> you'd think there'd be some kind of watchdog-type thing available _somewhere_
<diddledan> I wonder what's meant by custom-hardened in this statement: a custom-hardened 1.2GHz 64-bit quad-core ARM Cortex-A53
<diddledan> that's from eben upton on the piblog
<zmoylan-pi> a flash of light won't make it crash? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.zdnet.com/article/raspberry-pi-2-power-crashes-when-exposed-to-xenon-flash/#!
<diddledan> lol. pigate!
<diddledan> or was it flashgate?
<MooDoo> diddledan: it's about sales, only the cpc amstrad has sold more units, although I don't think that will last long
<sebsebseb> the Rassbery Pi can also run RISC OS, which is interesting
<zmoylan-pi> nah flashgate is been held for the conservative conference party... :-P
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi loves that thar riscos
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi is antiquated :-p
<diddledan> he still uses a nokia, dun'thcaknow
<zmoylan-pi> AND a rasp pi... b
<diddledan> not even a b+
<zmoylan-pi> nope
 * diddledan sighs
<zmoylan-pi> mind usng a dumbphone is now fashionable so i'll have to find my semaphore flags...
<diddledan> hmm, there's mention that "Phil Elwell developed the wireless LAN and Bluetooth software" <-- does that mean the firmware or have they got a simplified stack for folk to get-to-grips with programming it?
<diddledan> it's nice to see the compute module is being updated
<diddledan> though I wonder how many of those are actually being sold
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder how sales of pi's and their ilk are harming pc sales when they're so cheap
<diddledan> aye.
<sebsebseb> I think only technical enough people generally buy Rassbery Pi's,  and education a bit here and there
<sebsebseb> and maybe some technical busineses to
<diddledan> I'm hoping for a large memory upgrade in the next pi release :-)
<sebsebseb> general average consumer etc, nope
<sebsebseb> joe and jane average public, no
<sebsebseb> so Rassbery Pi's in general have probably had little effect on desktop PC's
<sebsebseb> and lap tops
<popey> they aren't design to
<popey> *designed
<zmoylan-pi> the pi3 if it had 2gb of ram would have been a great little lite desktop
<zmoylan-pi> 1gb is too little for web browsing these days
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: it's fine for browsing just use dillo or w3m :D
<zmoylan-pi> i tried midori and qupzilla as well as those but none of them quite did all i wanted browser wise
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: just use emacs and be done :D
<zmoylan-pi> wget all my pages...
<zmoylan-pi> i did think about doing that... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> but you're starting to get a bit too matrixy at that point... :-D
<diddledan> did I see recently someone had created a linux distro that was essentially emacs directly ontop of the kernel?
<zmoylan-pi> were is emacsos for phones??
<MooDoo> you just need terminator, mutt, w3m and moc, then you don't need a gui :D
<diddledan> err. I do not want a terminator!
<diddledan> unless it is bent to my will and not a nefarious AI
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think you get a choice in having a terminator... that's not how that franchise worked...
<popey> I demonstrated Ubuntu Phone at my local LUG two years ago. One guy said "Can it run emacs?" "I won't buy it if it doesn't run Emacs!"
<moreati> A silly thought experiment: If Linux/RPi had a very distinctive crash screen ala BSOD, would it _help_ awareness/adoption or hurt it?
<diddledan> popey, did he have an android? was that running emacs?
<popey> no
<zmoylan-pi> there is emacs for android
<popey> he had a dumbphone
<diddledan> and was that dumbphone running emacs?
<moreati> Think brand awareness and multidecade trends
<zmoylan-pi> proper dumbphone :-)
<popey> lunchtime
<diddledan> if not, then I fail to see his argument
<popey> i predict an omlette!
<MooDoo> not a riot?
<popey> indeed
<popey> sung to that tune
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamKl-su8PE
<zmoylan-pi> at least a dumbphone will crack and egg and not get damaged :-)
<diddledan> I have cracked many eggs and not got damaged :-p
<diddledan> I did get damaged when I cracked a wall though. my poor noggin.
<zmoylan-pi> was the wall ok?
<diddledan> I suspect sandisk are having trouble with sales of their SSD lines. they keep being offered at reduced rates.
<diddledan> today only at maplin AND dabs they're being sold at approx Â£100 for the 480GB
<diddledan> that's "today-only" and not "today, only at"
 * zmoylan-pi spots 10,000 mah power bank been sold this thursday at lidl for â¬18
<diddledan> as to the wall, I think I dented it's feelings a little but it stood firm
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder how long it would power a rasp pi for...
<diddledan> good question
<diddledan> 10Amp-hours @ consumption of ~500miliamp consumption = ~20 hours. at 1amp consumption (more likely than 500ma) it'll be ~10 hours
<diddledan> and at 2amp consumption (multiple USB's attached) it'll be ~5 hours. at max rated 2.5amp it'll be ~4 hours
<diddledan> (that max rating I used the recommended PSU rating for the PI3)
<zmoylan-pi> thanks, i must learn to breakdown power usage rates/capacities
<diddledan> 10,000 miliamphours means 1miliamp for 10,000 hours or 10,000amps for 1 hour - then sliding scale between, e.g. 5amps (5000miliamps) for 2 hours
<diddledan> 10,000miliamps, NOT 10,000AMPS!!!
<zmoylan-pi> that makes sense...
<diddledan> 10,000 amps would be... *calculates* 3.6seconds
<zmoylan-pi> for 10,000 amps we'd need a delorean and a lightning conductor...
<diddledan> plus an exploding battery :-p
<diddledan> 3.6seconds AND a mini explosion
<zmoylan-pi> as long as it leaves streaks of fire i'll be happy :-)
<diddledan> more likely streaks of another kind (in your underwear)
<zmoylan-pi> that's why you buy stripy underwear!! pffft... amateur...
<diddledan> and burnt eyebrows AND a few expletives
<diddledan> wtf? someone sent an email to the polymer (a google project) mailing list which appears to be a direct rip from education materials with no explanation: https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer#!msg/polymer-dev/n5CRhEwxQ2M/G5GmIUeoEwAJ
<diddledan> are they using education material as an advertisement of what they're trying to sell? I just don't get it at all.
<TwistedLucidity> Looks like spam to sell their courses
<TwistedLucidity> Perhaps a couple are loss-leaders? Either way, I never trust companies who spam.
<zmoylan-pi> not even hornell who make spam?
<TwistedLucidity> I don't think I have eaten "specially processed artifical meat" since I was about 6.
<TwistedLucidity> (I know it's no an acronym, and why it's actually called 'spam' the above is a mere, pathetic, jest)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no I bet there is horse in it
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Horse is tasty
<zmoylan-pi> has more of a kick...
<diddledan> my nephew used to pronounce it as though the s and e were transposed
<TwistedLucidity> That could be amusing/problematic
<diddledan> which led to endless giggles from adults when he said he wanted to go to see the horse
<MooDoo> ow am ya davmor2
<davmor2> Busy as hell and going for Lunch other than that grand, how am yow MooDoo
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i'm doing ok thanks
<awilkins> Pi 3!
<zmoylan-pi> there goes a lot of geeks pocket money... :-)
<popey> RS have sold another 1000 since I last looked at ~12:00
<foobarry> i still don't own any Rpi
<foobarry> maybe when my son is older and is coding
<diddledan> apparently Scott Kelly of the Year in Space drank 193 gallons of sweat and urine
<zmoylan-pi> dead handy for tiny always on device at home doing your bidding
<diddledan> ref: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/02/25/science/scott-kelly-astronaut-year-in-space-numbers.html
<zmoylan-pi> did they start drinking their urine _before_ the water ran out? :-P
<foobarry> blackadder2
<zmoylan-pi> redberad rum, long on beard, short on legs...
<diddledan> if anyone has a spare 2grand handy they can buy a hololens developer kit
<zmoylan-pi> i could corner the dumbphone supply with that kind of money!!
<diddledan> https://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-hololens/en-us/development-edition
<diddledan> oh, you gotta live in us or canadia
<zmoylan-pi> if you can call it living... no decent crisps... :-)
<diddledan> nor chocolate
<diddledan> I wonder how IRC could be reimagined for holocomputing
<zmoylan-pi> matrix with channels text super imposed on channels text so that you can focus deeper to the next channel
<zmoylan-pi> done with hand gestures of course so that you can slap random passers by :-)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> so the slap action is depicted by an avatar bent-over that you literally slap on the bum
<diddledan> you could have a meter of how strongly you slap them, too
<zmoylan-pi> also punch and tickle would be gesturs so a reboot is punch, slap and tickle...
<diddledan> lol
<MooDoo> you bloomin idiots ;)
<diddledan> us? nevar
 * zmoylan-pi can't wait so next annoying jerk can get their lights punched out and my apology is 'sorry thought i was in vr...'
<diddledan> I completely resemble that remark!
<diddledan> no, wait, resent!
<MooDoo> :)
<foobarry> anyone doing linux desktop virtualisation for remote users?
<foobarry> like maybe a class of 30 ppl
<diddledan> http://arstechnica.co.uk/apple/2016/02/os-x-blacklist-accidentally-disables-ethernet-in-os-x-10-11/
<diddledan> and hilarity ensued
<popey> golly
<awilkins> But surely they can just download the update.....    ;-)
<diddledan> that's actually the truth
<diddledan> that's how they fix it
<diddledan> you need to run `sudo softwareupdate --background`
<diddledan> the alternative seems to be to reboot in safe/recovery and run `rm -rf â/Volumes/Macintosh HD/System/Library/Extensions/AppleKextExcludeList.kextâ`
<diddledan> they do list reinstalling OS X as a viable option, which IMO isn't
<diddledan> o_O http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/morgan-freeman-waze-gps-navigator-1.3462432
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> il start watching 11/22/63 next, meant to be v good:)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-01
<diddledan> anyone on BT? my connection seems dead
<diddledan> BT say: "A small number of our customers in the areas shown below, may experience a loss of telephone and/or broadband services." and then list two dozen locations
<diddledan> maybe even three-dozen
<diddledan> 48 locations in total for "small number of customers"
<diddledan> methinks canned text is bad
<zmoylan-pi> if the 3 laws of robots were in operation the bot would know that lying to you would harm...
<diddledan> it's surprising I'm still connected here really
<diddledan> I can't get a tracepath to 8.8.8.8 to finish
<diddledan> the last hop that responds on that is peer1-et-10-1-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net
<zmoylan-pi> first step in camerons porn filter... just turn off the internet... :-P
<diddledan> I'm awaiting the day I have to phone BT and tell them "I want you to classify me in the perverts list please"
<zmoylan-pi> they get that from the irc logs...
<diddledan> maybe I should phone and start out with "I'm a pervert"
<zmoylan-pi> can i speak to someone in the filth deparment?
<diddledan> yeah that'll work
<zmoylan-pi> probably put through to management...
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> or "can you tell me how I can become a filthy pervert?"
<zmoylan-pi> get put through to conservative party hq...
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> well yeah, it does seem ironic that the perverts list designed to "protect the children, omg the children" will be primarily full of conservative MPs and peers
<diddledan> so how about a wedding proposal that takes the form "set course for the curch, warp factor 8, engage"
<diddledan> you'll be there within 8 parsecs
<zmoylan-pi> load photon toasters
<zmoylan-pi> and parsecs is a measurement of distance not of time... a mistake from star wars that persists
<m0nkey_> FIRE PHASERS
<mapps> hi all
<zmoylan-1i> o/
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> what you doing up, work?
<zmoylan-1i> insomnia
<mapps> oh
<mapps> what times work?O_o
<mapps> no Dafty or diddledan  ?
<mapps> hmm can i make my router use a proxy so everything goes through squid on pi automatically?
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> morning
<knightwise> hey peeps
<popey> good morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey popey , how are you
<popey> super
<MooDoo> howdy howdy howdy
<knightwise> howdy moodoo
<awilkins> I'm sure we've all seen this but NIIIIICE : https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/02/29/minecrafts-most-obscene-server/
<awilkins> Arrgh
<awilkins> Not that one
<awilkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiEkCaA_P7c
 * awilkins mumbles about multiple copy buffers
<awilkins> I'm really impressed that they're using a Nexus 4 for the phone convergence demo (not least because my phone is one of those)
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> did freenode fall over for everyone or just me?
<foobarry> for 10 mins
<Myrtti> just you
<foobarry> hmm. ircnet stayed up
<Myrtti> well, a few others, but still
<Myrtti> smallish glitch
<Myrtti> ever so sorry
<foobarry> don't take it personally :D
<foobarry> i prefer to blame our internal networks group
<Myrtti> I'm not, just apologizing and engaging with the userbase :-P
<foobarry> thankyou :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<davmor2> Myrtti: awwwww look at you being all caring and stuff of course the sticking the tongue out at the end makes it seem a little less serious :D
<knightwise> Apple keyboards are a pita
<foobarry> nfs writes to a server are < 1mbs. iperf and reads are fast (1gb/s)
<foobarry> :S
<awilkins> Apple Keyboards are a PITA ++
<awilkins> I used to take my own keyboard when I had to support one
<brobostigon> good ep of ds9 on, the time travel/trouble with triblles crossover ep. :)
<brobostigon> tribbles*
<zmoylan-pi> dax in retro uniform...
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> Anyone use hplip on centos ?
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: Fantastic episode
<knightwise> terry farrel looks good in anything.
<davmor2> diplo: MooDoo might of that's the kinda cray thing he does
<MooDoo> davmor2: no not me
<davmor2> diplo: man you might be stuffed if even MooDoo wasn't that brave :D
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Trying to install new hplip on a box, but it wants to install the older version as dependency, failing to find out why
<diplo> Boss doesn't want me to spend to much time so will leave for now :)
<davmor2> diplo: because it hates you?
<diplo> Most likely! it is centos after all :)
<zmoylan-pi> always thought it was wasted opportunity when they went disguised as klingons that she wasn't sent as well...
<awilkins> hah, the executive producers would have had conniptions
<awilkins> "But, but, Dax is HOT. Klingon women aren't hot.... "
<zmoylan-pi> worf's missus (alexanders ma) in tng was hot...
<awilkins> She was half-klingon
<awilkins> They allowed women who were 50% Klingon or less to be hot
<zmoylan-pi> the klingon that neelix got it on with in tuvoks quarters was hot...
<awilkins> (To be fair, there were plenty of very attractive Klingon women in Trek)
<awilkins> Like the lady who Quark helps out
<zmoylan-pi> best episode of trek ever... quark explaining business transactions to klingon high council... :-D
<zmoylan-pi> a bunch of klingon warriors studying math on their padds
<awilkins> And the masterful victory over the guy who just wanted to kill him anyway
<awilkins> "Just how honourable is it, killing a pathetic Ferengi gnome who won't even defend himself....."
<zmoylan-pi> d'ghor, son of... whoever... :-P
<awilkins> T'wonk
<zmoylan-pi> oooh, grilka also played na'toth in b5...
<foobarry> i dont like star trek, etc but i particularly despise that little ratty man
<foobarry> the greedy money grabbing guy with the funny teeth.
<foobarry> mrs foobarry seems to watch it every other day
<zmoylan-pi> you're meant to dislike ferengi as they are obsessed with money and their attitudes towards women are... primitive.... but you end up liking quark... to a degree
<foobarry> and also that creepy dr guy who thinks he's a hit with ladies
<awilkins> Yeah, Quark has one of the better character development arcs
<awilkins> You like him because he's actually quite brave and progressive for his society
<foobarry> every story is basically writen by teenagers who fancy girls and want to snog them
<zmoylan-pi> bashir is young naive when he arrives (or at least acts that way till we find he's a mutant) but learns from garak
<foobarry> angst and unrequited love
<foobarry> more snogging than an epsiode of neighoburs
<awilkins> Enterprise was the worst. Been rewatching it recently
<awilkins> Archer was just a terrible, terrible, awful person
<awilkins> I challenge anyone to watch "A Night In Sickbay" and not think this
<zmoylan-pi> i liked archer as captain, i just think the show was badly done even if it had great episodes
<awilkins> He throws a massive hissy fit because his dog gets sick!
<foobarry> the irish IT guy looks a lot like my neighbour
<awilkins> And because the aliens didn't bother to do a full genetic workup on the 3GB of data they send them about the dog and warn them about the pathogen!
<zmoylan-pi> well 2gb was funny cat videos... :-)
<awilkins> And because aliens they already encountered and know to be surprisingly touchy are upset because his dog, which for some reason he took on a diplomatic visit, pees on their sacred tree
<awilkins> These are aliens that are horribly offended by people eating in public. Like eating has the same taboo level as sex for them.
<zmoylan-pi> look at humans and breast feeding...
<awilkins> And he brings his miniature beagle to a diplomatic meeting, that species well known for it's restraint and inoffensiveness
 * brobostigon preferred jean luc as captain, :)
<awilkins> And THEN..... sulks in sickbay for 24 hours instead of getting off his butt and doing his job, apologizing to the aliens so they can get the parts they need to keep their starship going
<awilkins> Worst. Captain. Ever.
<zmoylan-pi> i prefer sisko if you want combat, picard if you want diplomacy, but when the borg arrive hope for janeway...
<awilkins> .. from the future?
<foobarry> i have literally no idea how people can enjoy this guff
<brobostigon> it was also interesting see beveraly crusher as captain and married to jean luc.
<brobostigon> beverly*
<zmoylan-pi> i think it was said best in stargate sg:1 by meta character... :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPkoqH2iQIQ
<foobarry> any nagios users who can check something for me please?
<foobarry> i use adagios and the locations of files are a bit different.
<foobarry> what is the content of /usr/local/nagios/var/status.log
<foobarry> where /usr/local/nagios/var/status.log is the file as defined with 'status_file=' in nagios.cfg.
<foobarry> please
<foobarry> is it the HOST ALERT DOWN UP type mesages?
<knightwise> awilkins: archer sucked
<knightwise> my captain ? kirk - kirk - kirk
<awilkins> Aye Carumba, does the Republican race close today?
<foobarry> whens the election?
<zmoylan-pi> december?
<zmoylan-pi> donald drumpf for el supremo
<foobarry> adolf trump?
<foobarry> surely sanity will prevail
<zmoylan-pi> republicans... sanity...
<foobarry> even still
<brobostigon> mussolini reincarnated.
<diplo> foobarry: just got back, still need nagios info ?
<foobarry> think i'm ok, thanks
<diplo> Mines package installed though, looks like yours was compiled
<awilkins> Bernie, Bernie, he's our man! If he can't do it.... we're all doomed to an eternity of corporate rule!
<diplo> OK
<foobarry> will let u know if it doesn't work. trying to use nagcon
<diplo> k
<awilkins> Although TBF, there are probably strategic meetings going on right now discussing how to destroy a Sanders presidency
<foobarry> diplo: yes pls can u check that file?
<diplo> OK, what info you want to know? It's basically full of info, from Nagios version to satus of events etc
<foobarry> like, DOWN UP info?
<diplo> Just checking specifically
<diplo> lugin_output=PING OK - Packet loss = 0%, RTA = 50.63 ms
<diplo> Guess so yes
<foobarry> yeah, cool. ta
<diplo> Mines in status.dat but that is what status_file points to on mine
<foobarry> :( there's v little documentation online for this tool, but itshandy terminal display for nagios alerts
<foobarry> OPENSSL bug fix released today
<foobarry> website is slow
<awilkins> This is the fix for the attack that isn't DROWN then?
<foobarry> new mystery bugs announced today
<foobarry> yes its DROWN
<foobarry> https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv/20160301.txt
<awilkins> Which you can avoid by disabling SSL
<foobarry> they need to stop scaring everyone
<foobarry> diplo: please could you  grep PACKETLOSS status.dat
<foobarry> see if anything appears?
<diplo> Nope, empty
<foobarry> thanks
<diplo> foobarry:
<diplo> Doesn't work like that though does it ? performance_data=time=0.028158s;;;0.000000;10.000000 it responds with stuff like this normally doesn't it ?
<diplo> Been a while since I poked the internals
<diplo> plugin_output=PING OK - Packet loss = 0%, RTA = 53.61 ms
<foobarry> fixed my problem with an uber ugly hack
<diplo> Nothing wrong with ugly hacks as long as you document them
<gebbione> is it possible to port my current OS and from the current hardisk to a new one? I need more space
<gebbione> also is it easy to just change hardware with ubuntu or changing MB, RAM CPU (a new I7) will require a new install?
<directhex_> yes, and yes.
<mapito> hi
<mapito> ;]
<mapito> gotham so good
<lazybones_> hi all, linux newbe[ie, just want to edit a text file in etc, but cant seem to get arounf fikle permission both graphical and shell env`s
<diddledan> lazybones_, files in /etc are protected from non-root users' editing them (usually) so on ubuntu you can use the command `sudo nano /etc/file/name` in a terminal which will then ask for a password which is your normal ubuntu password
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-02
<gebbione> i m getting permission denied when executing an app in a disk with NTFS
<gebbione> is there a way to run it?
<Trenolaz> run it as sudo?
<diddledan> chmod
<gebbione> doesnt work
<gebbione> tried sudo su -
<gebbione> then running it still gives permission errors
<gebbione> it is already showing with +x so chmod would make no difference
<diddledan> what options are set on the mount?
<gebbione> ok that gives something away
<gebbione> type fuseblk (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,allow_other,default_permissions,blksize=4096) [2TBStore]
<gebbione> noexec ?
<diddledan> bingo
<gebbione> i wonder though if i can set it to exec
<diddledan> you might be able to `mount -oremount,-noexec /mount/point`
<mapito> hi:
<mapito> :D
<mapito> hi zmoylan-pi
<mapito> ;d
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon , how are you doing today
<brobostigon> hi knightwise, half asleep, didnt sleep. and you?
<knightwise> brobostigon: kinda the same thing. Second day on a new project at the client.
<knightwise> still a lot of info to take in.
<knightwise> but .. i get to bring my own machine so i'm not complainging.
<brobostigon> hope sleep better tonight. ah ok, fingers crossed.
<knightwise> just installed elementary on my Vm , gotta say , still one of the best looking versions of linux out there
<foobarry> used it every day for about 3 years
<foobarry> really good for getting work done in the style i like
<knightwise> foobarry: agreed. Seriously thinking of replacing 14.04 on my XPS with Elementary
<foobarry> there's a new one coming soon
<foobarry> but yeah, i love it
<foobarry> and it's fast
<foobarry> without comporomising on usability
<davmor2> Morning all
<awilkins> Is it just Pantheon or the whole of Elementary?
<foobarry> pardon?
<awilkins> Pantheon is the desktop environment for Elementary
<awilkins> knightwise was talking about Elementary up there ^
<foobarry> knightwise: see if you can figure this out though http://elementaryos.stackexchange.com/questions/4556/make-pantheon-terminal-window-appear-on-all-workspaces
<foobarry> anyone got issues accessing google?
<zmoylan-pi> i don't like their privacy stance... :-P ::goes to check::
<zmoylan-pi> google.com seems to work fine
<foobarry> think its a JANET prob
<popey> exobuzz: when we getting a pi 3 build of your lovely emulation software? :)
<foobarry> attended a metal detecting club meeting yesterday. was very busy.
<foobarry> have to join a waiting list to get in :(
<popey> Detectorists!
<popey> loved that programme
<foobarry> seems less geeky than LUG or scale model society
<foobarry> but only just. lots of nolwedgable and friendly , quite normal people. had a v interesting talk too
<popey> Well, they're people who go outside for a start :)
<foobarry> one guy at the club  found a silver coin in last few weeks that was worth Â£3-5k
<zmoylan-pi> does that not belong to the queen?
<popey> 50/50 with land-owner innit?
<foobarry> nope, only if found in a larger stash
<foobarry> treasure rules are different with coins
<foobarry> was a lovely piece
<popey> what prompted the visit?
<foobarry> starting the hobby
<foobarry> a latent desire for some years
<foobarry> also connected with dreams of fossil hunting as a boy but metal detecting is more realistic and fruitful (just)
<foobarry> Any metallic object, other than a coin, provided that at least 10 per cent by weight of metal is precious metal (that is, gold or silver) and that it is at least 300 years old when found. If the object is of prehistoric date it will be Treasure provided any part of it is precious metal
<popey> Is it expensive to get started?
<foobarry> Any group of two or more metallic objects of any composition of prehistoric date that come from the same find (see below)
<foobarry> yes and no
<foobarry> actually quite a cheap hobby
<zmoylan-pi> no amateur ground penetrating radars yet then? :-)
<popey> :)
<foobarry> but all land is owned so you need to detect on land that has permission. this is usually done through a club
<zmoylan-pi> might be doable with rasp pis...
<foobarry> a beginner detector that will find good stuff is around ~200
<foobarry> plus a pinponter probe for Â£100
<foobarry> and a shovel and camo clothes (everyone wears camo for some reason a bit like black tshirts on linux geeks)
<popey> heheh
<foobarry> this guy has a great chan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQLsInujZnw
<zmoylan-pi> cheap ex military gear going cheap probably
<foobarry> watch some of these and you will be hooked
<foobarry> a pro detector costs Â£1300
<foobarry> but it is not 5x better
<gebbione> services like tracker-miner, zeitgeist-fts etc are always eating RAM on my system
<foobarry> you can turn them off
<gebbione> they push it so much that all other applications slow down and degrade incredibly
<zmoylan-pi> zooooom
<popey> tracker-miner... ?
<popey> never heard of that
<awilkins> Some kind of issue-tracking aggregator?
<davmor2> popey: oh oh oh is that the ubuntu port of manic-miner?
 * popey steps on davmor2 
<davmor2> popey: no that mario manic dies if he does that :D
<diddledan> manic miner. now that's going back some years
<zmoylan-pi> first game i played on a speccy i think
<zmoylan-pi> or it might have been a rip off called technican ted
<exobuzz> popey, the image just released of v3.6 of retropie should work fine on the rpi3
<popey> yay exobuzz
<exobuzz> :)
<diddledan> ergh @ clickbait titles
<popey> has it been tested on one?
<diddledan> "person does something.. and you'll never guess what happened next!"
<exobuzz> yeh - but not mine (which only just arrived)
<exobuzz> but the rpi3 is rpi2 compatible so we just needed the latest firmware on the raspbian based image
<popey> yeah
<popey> exobuzz: btw http://blog.petrockblock.com/retropie/retropie-downloads/retropie-sd-card-image-for-raspberry-pi-2-2/ says "Berryboot version version" (excessive version)
<exobuzz> oh yeh - not my blog that so cant really do anything
<exobuzz> the founder of the retropie projects site - we are moving to a standalone site soon
<exobuzz> ill email him regarding it
<popey> cool
 * popey downloads
<popey> gonna move my picade from pi2 to pi3
<exobuzz> the new bluetooth may not work yet (has been reported - probably missing a driver)
<exobuzz> it works on raspbian, so I guess we miss a package or something
<exobuzz> ill fix it up as soon as I have my rpi3 set up
<Azelphur> I am living up to my reputation of being the god of breaking things
<diddledan> don't mention your hdd to daftykins or you'll break that too
 * daftykins twitches
<diddledan> o/
<Azelphur> Got a Logitech G933 which needed a firmware update, set up a brand new windows install for the occasion, the installer launched a 2nd instance of itself ~20% of the way through the process and bricked the headset. Tried to do an RMA, broke Logitechs website: http://imgur.com/dzxFxb7 tried with todays date, broke it again, http://imgur.com/To0BphB tried leaving all the fields blank since they are optional, broke it again http://imgur.com/k9LYW9K
<Azelphur> and just when you thought I couldn't break any more stuff, I broke their phone system trying to call them too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6-Hn2fvOJc
<daftykins> smells like a US date format that one :)
<Azelphur> daftykins: it uses a date picker widget
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> nicely over-engineered :D
<Azelphur> but I did think of that and try flipping the days/months around, just yields the "Oops! something went wrong" error
<Azelphur> but amusingly this leaves me with pretty much no way to actually contact Logitech, I'm hoping to get someone on their subreddit, but having tried phone, email and website...yea :/
<daftykins> has anyone confirmed that news that Skype on Linux no longer handles calls to users on Mac or Windows that are on the latest clients?
<daftykins> what happened with phone?
<Azelphur> daftykins: you mean when I phoned them? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6-Hn2fvOJc
<Azelphur> I'm gonna try the US phone number, pretty crazy but maybe that'll work
<daftykins> wow that's a really bad run!
<Azelphur> yea, it's impressive
<diddledan> I'm not sure you're supposed to press many buttons while she's speaking
<daftykins> i reckon he'd done every combo prior to the vid
<daftykins> i just called it from skype for fun, the message just loops - although granted it might just be shut now
<Azelphur> called the US number, they answered, said hello then hung up
<Azelphur> :(
<daftykins> aww they know you already
<Azelphur> I got a person who gave me an alternate UK number to call tomorrow, progress \o/
<daftykins> shame they can't just handle each others same processes given the way things are these days
<daftykins> the US and UK systems probably aren't linked i suppose
<Azelphur> indeed
<m0nkey_> Logitech?
<daftykins> yeah
<m0nkey_> I've had nothing but good service everytime I've called.
<m0nkey_> Called for replacement parts a year ago, they didn't even charge me.
<m0nkey_> Wasnt even under warranty
<Azelphur> m0nkey_: yea, I had a really good experience with their returns last time I used it too
<Azelphur> The problem is I just can't get through to their returns, website is broken, email bounces telling you to use the website, phone is broken.
<m0nkey_> Heh
<m0nkey_> I just start pressing random numbers at that point when calling to speak to a human.
<m0nkey_> Or pressing 0 repeatedly also works :)
<m0nkey_> Or #
<Azelphur> m0nkey_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6-Hn2fvOJc yeeeea...nope
<diddledan> the video shows that failing :-p
<diddledan> an impressive amount of number mashing right there :-D
<Azelphur> lol
<diddledan> could try the cap'n crunch whistle?
<Azelphur> hehe
<diddledan> that would be an awesome easter egg on a hacking firm's phone system
<m0nkey_> How about using a real phone? :P
<diddledan> does android not count as real?
<diddledan> iphone?
<diddledan> :-p
<m0nkey_> I'm saying use a land line
<diddledan> aah, POTS
<Azelphur> I don't have a land line, I tried it through Skype and got the same problem
<m0nkey_> I've found some of these call centres the cell phone DTMF doesn't always work.
<Azelphur> I say don't have, I mean I don't have it connected and I never use it and I am on a crappy pay as you go plan because I don't want it
<m0nkey_> What's the number you were dailing?
<m0nkey_> I'll give it a try
<Azelphur> 01753 870900
<diddledan> +44
<daftykins> i tried it from skype too and it was definitely a no-go, but right now it might be due to lines being closed too
<m0nkey_> dialing
<Azelphur> daftykins: nah, been trying it all day
<daftykins> Azelphur: but i mean now even if it did work, now it probably wouldn't anyway if they keep office hours
<Azelphur> for reference, that number comes from http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/contact
<m0nkey_> yup
<m0nkey_> it's broken
<daftykins> although the way the message loops is weird as hell
<Azelphur> m0nkey_: hahaha
<m0nkey_> doesn't even work here in canada
<Azelphur> daftykins: true
<m0nkey_> tried the alternative number?
<m0nkey_> +44 (0)203 024 81 59
<Azelphur> where'd you get that from? I only found that number after calling their US line
<m0nkey_> that one appears to work
<m0nkey_> http://support.logitech.com/en_gb/contact
<Azelphur> yea but closed, gonna call it tomorrow
<m0nkey_> then hit the "contact by phone" number
<Azelphur> ah, yea I didn't spot that one there.
<daftykins> that's a squeezebox line :D i have one of those!
<diddledan> that's their sales number. you want +44 (0)203 024 81 59 (as m0nkey_ already found)
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, just weird they have multiple contact pages
<daftykins> i wouldn't be surprised if the squeezebox line was just "sorry we abandoned these"
<diddledan> daftykins, it's listed as their main support number
<diddledan> they also have the number listed on squeezebox and cameras
<daftykins> oh yeah, i'm having a bad habit of not reading things fully today
<diddledan> there's an international europe number too but I would guess that's just for cheaper contacting when in mainland
<diddledan> their support hours are 8am-5pm GMT
<diddledan> 9-6 CET
<davmor2> meh just use webrtc
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/GeekandSundry/status/705118435798192128
<davmor2> diddledan: I thought D this was a dragon
<m0nkey_> lol, this is what Super Tuesday looks like on Google Trends: https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%22how%20can%20I%20move%20to%20Canada%22&geo=US&date=now%207-d&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT
<mapps> hola
<diddledan> https://blog.adafruit.com/2016/03/02/pi-3-x-ray-raspberry_pi-raspberrypi-pi3/
<daftykins> do you think they'll follow up with the Pi 3.141592 ?
<diddledan> oh I do so hope
<daftykins> https://medium.com/@rosshosman/1password-sends-your-password-across-the-loopback-interface-in-clear-text-307cefca6389 0o
<mapps> lol
<diddledan> maximilian apparently is insane and has a hairy track/path. (Mad Max's Fury Road)
<diddledan> morning, m0nkey_
<mapps> work time ugh
<daftykins> drat, cpc is under maintenance so i can't browse :P
<diddledan> typical
<diddledan> want a pi3?
<diddledan> m0nkey_, did someone tie a string to you and started bumping you up-and-down like a yoyo?
<daftykins> god no, i avoid those things :)
<daftykins> i need to get a 48 port patch panel for the boss' Spain place
<diddledan> he still messing with that place?
<daftykins> whole thing is being refurbed at the moment yeah, got a boatload of boxes ready to send a tonne of junk down there
<daftykins> for some reason he wants his DVD film collection down there
 * diddledan rewatching mission impossible rogue nation
<diddledan> benji is fun
<daftykins> Simon Pegg?
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> security professionals be all about dat APT thing: https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/705172246067712000
<daftykins> i felt like he turned a serious franchise into a half-assed comedy
<daftykins> totally weird vibe
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-03
<diddledan> apparently it's illegal to lie online: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35712772
<brobostigon> goats cheese camenbert, :)
<diddledan> that was my first thought, too
<daftykins> well they're going at it like there's a world record attempt, over in #ubuntu
<brobostigon> a cheese i discovered this afternoon.
<diddledan> it's all quiet in there now that I've joined
<brobostigon> in where?
<daftykins> ah probably for the best
<daftykins> just think idiots saying lubuntu is amazing on 256MB RAM Â¬_Â¬
 * brobostigon makes a note for his fiance, 'buy this cheese please honey' :)
<m0nkey_> diddledan, you've seen this guy before, but he's done more videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSoXEtFPTfI
<diddledan> daftykins, that dude won't let it drop
<diddledan> m0nkey_, love that guy
<m0nkey_> the mashable videos seem a bit forced and rushed, but i'm sure they'll get better over time
<daftykins> too many idiots bite the hand that feeds
 * diddledan nibbles on daftykins' fingers
<diddledan> I almost typed that with pp instead of bb
<diddledan> I have a one-track mind
<zmoylan-pi> you so hornby? :-P
<diddledan> not any more. I just ate
<daftykins> nn \o
<diddledan> o/
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> NSFW https://www.youtube.com/embed/U08XWOx3XYM
<m0nkey_> The only winning move is not to play.
 * zmoylan-1i now wants burger king for some reason...
<m0nkey_> How about a nice game of chess?
 * m0nkey_ just re-watched WarGames
<zmoylan-1i> haven't seen radio controlled flying dinosaurs since
<zmoylan-1i> probably the only hacker movie i liked i don't have on dvd
<mapps> mornin
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diplo_> Morning all
<knightwise> morning
<knightwise> morning popey
<knightwise> Hmm :) Pi2 has an uptime of over a month. Not bad :)
<popey> yo
<knightwise> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon , how are you todday
<brobostigon> not bad really, and you?
<popey> Hello!
<brobostigon> hi popey
<knightwise> doing ok :) listening to podcasts in my linux vm, tucked away fullscreen on a differnt virtual desktop on my mac :)
<knightwise> Its like having a second laptop with me at work.
<brobostigon> :)
<matt_linuxlearne> hi
<knightwise> hey matt_linuxlearne
<matt_linuxlearne> hows it going?
<knightwise> hey matt_linuxlearne , doin ok here. How about you ?
<knightwise> Putting together a nice Linux VM on my mac. Decided to go for elementary since it remains one of my favorite distro's
<matt_linuxlearne> yeh working hard, slowly getting used to running linux
<knightwise> Thats ok :) there is plenty to learn and its fun
<knightwise> what are you currently running ?
<matt_linuxlearne> Ubu 14.04 lts
<davmor2> matt_linuxlearne: :) that's a good starting point, nice and stable
<matt_linuxlearne> i was using mint but decided to take a jump when there iso pool got hacked
<knightwise> matt_linuxlearne: correct . good disto. Stick to the LTS releases to keep yourself from distro hopping.
<knightwise> I'm on 1404 on my Dell XPS13 and currently running an elementary VM on my macbook pro.
<knightwise> matt_linuxlearne: I did a coulple of shows on runnign a linux laptop as a main machine on my podcast
<matt_linuxlearne> gonna stick with buntu, trying to learn enough to start being a sys admin, currently pushing to power user
<knightwise> you might want to check those out
<matt_linuxlearne> not really done podcast before, give me the link
<knightwise> matt_linuxlearne: Ubuntu is just as powerfull (and power-user friendly) as any distro. Some of the geeky stuff is under the hood.
<knightwise> www.knightwise.com
<knightwise> you might also want to check out the going linux podcast. Larry does great work for people who are new
<matt_linuxlearne> site looks cool, will browse later
<matt_linuxlearne> pop me a link
<knightwise> www.goinglinux.org
<knightwise> i think.
<matt_linuxlearne> i will g it
<matt_linuxlearne> http://goinglinux.com/
<knightwise> ah ,.com
<knightwise> forgot about that one
<knightwise> so matt_linuxlearne , where are you at with your discoveries in Linuxland
<matt_linuxlearne> getting to grips with power use
<matt_linuxlearne> trying to use linux more and more in daily work life
<matt_linuxlearne> using gnome connection manager
<matt_linuxlearne> virtual box
<matt_linuxlearne> wireshark
<knightwise> give zenmap a look
<knightwise> graphical frontend to nmap
<matt_linuxlearne> im going to be looking closer at those types of tools soon, but i need to get a good work handle on linux first
<matt_linuxlearne> what do you do for a living?
<knightwise> Freelance consultant
<matt_linuxlearne> what security field by chance?
<knightwise> Mostly functional / techincal analysis and solution design for companies
<matt_linuxlearne> fair shout
<knightwise> matt_linuxlearne: not specifically , but i do need some of those tools when I do network analysis
<matt_linuxlearne> yup
<matt_linuxlearne> tcpdump, nmap
<knightwise> nmap and wireshark
<matt_linuxlearne> by boss would class them as not needed tools so i use wireshark
<knightwise> nmap is very helpfull when it comes to checking out hosts on a network , wireshark mostly looks at the traffic those hosts generate
<matt_linuxlearne> so i use angryip scanner
<matt_linuxlearne> for hunt out active host, but as we both know its not amazing
<knightwise> simple and it does the trick
<knightwise> you ahve that on linux or windows ?
<matt_linuxlearne> use angry on win and osx
<matt_linuxlearne> not tried in in butu
<knightwise> matt_linuxlearne: thanx for the tip , i'm using lanscan on OSX , kinda the same
<matt_linuxlearne> any good?
<matt_linuxlearne> angry ip does not resolve host names that well
<matt_linuxlearne> anyone out there
<davmor2> yes
<matt_linuxlearne> hows it going
<davmor2> fine thanks
<davmor2> you?
<matt_linuxlearne> yeh not bad
<popey> http://ubuntupodcast.org/2016/03/03/s09e01-raspberry-tripel/ \o/
<davmor2> popey: is it me is that not how you spell triple
<popey> Depends
<davmor2> popey: on what?
<popey> The language :)
<knightwise> Tripel = Perticular sort of beer
<knightwise> Trappist "Double" or "Tripel"
<knightwise> Tripel = Fermentend longer then Double
<popey> mmmm beer
<knightwise> http://www.trappistwestmalle.be/en/page/tripel.aspx
<popey> yum
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-04
<m0nkey_> CANADA for PRESIDENT! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCyzdD0vYOw
<mapps> canada for president?
<mapps> heh
<knightwise> morning
<zmoylan-pi> it's snowing, everyone panic \o/
<MooDoo> bright sunshine here
<popey> hehe, none here
<popey> talking about it on the radio
<popey> (morning)
<knightwise>  morning popey
<knightwise> enjoyed the show on my way to work this morning
<popey> yay
<knightwise> do we have a price on the ubuntu tablet yet ?
<popey> no idea
<popey> ask bq :)
<davmor2> Morning All
<bashrc> if it's not exorbitantly expensive I might consider getting an ubuntu tablet. I don't currently have a tablet, since my old one broke and I didn't bother replacing it.
<bashrc> with the old tablet I found I mostly used it for reading, and an ereader is far better for that
<knightwise> bashrc: agreed. Although I do use my ipad a lot to read in bed ..donno why cuz my Kobo should be better at that.
<bashrc> someone suggested getting an ipad for reading but (i) I don't like Apple and (ii) the battery life on ereaders is way better.
<bashrc> I really hardly need to care about charging the ereader at all
<popey> I go my ereader out a couple of nights ago, then got an email from them saying they're shutting down
<Laney> @internetofshit
<bashrc> heh
<knightwise> popey: what brand did you get ?
<popey> Mine is a Nook
<popey> I rarely used it tbh
<knightwise> and they are shutting down ? Isn(t the nook from barnes and noble ?
<popey> yes
<popey> knightwise: https://twitter.com/popey/status/705496399429898240
<knightwise> damn, so what is the impact going to be for you  ?
<popey> migration to Sainsburys
<popey> where I will still have access to "most" of my data
<popey> I don't have many purchased items though, so not badly affected. I mostly side load "content" on via sd card or usb cable
<knightwise> "most" of the books you bought
<knightwise> same as me. I mostly sideload everything via calibre
<foobarry> i have a kobo
<foobarry> but most of my books are via amazon so it's annoying to have to convert them
<knightwise> foobarry: me too , which one di you have
<foobarry> the cheap one
<knightwise> I have a glo
<foobarry> kobo touch with the nice moulded back
<foobarry> Â£30 at the time
<foobarry> i have no complaints except for amazons drm
<knightwise> any drm sucks, not just amazons
<foobarry> yep
<zmoylan-pi> i got a kobo 5" super cheap from argos. don't use it much. ditto my 7" asus android tablet. mostly a 4.5" android phone which is a media player
<knightwise> i bought some books at the google play store.
<knightwise> also allmost impossible to get teh drm off
<foobarry> ugh
<foobarry> the calibre hoops you have to jump through are ridiculous
<foobarry> and i'm not sure its even posible on ubuntu anymore
<foobarry> you needed wine and activepython and all this guff
<foobarry> and the kindlePC.exe under wine
<foobarry> to get the kindleID , but it doesn't work
<knightwise> bookzz.org
<knightwise> the have surprisingly little drm
<foobarry> prices?
<foobarry> i usually get my amazonz on offer
<knightwise> also suspicously low
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> thx , i'll check it out
<foobarry> is it another allofmp3?
 * knightwise would not dare say these things out loud 
<knightwise> but I have found some interesting books there
<matt_linuxlearne> Morning
<knightwise> hey matt_linuxlearne
<matt_linuxlearne> hows things?
<knightwise> doin ok
<knightwise> friday :)
<matt_linuxlearne> cool
<knightwise>  last day before a work-filled weekend
<matt_linuxlearne> whats ya plans over the weekend then
 * Laney observes 1 flake of snow per second
<matt_linuxlearne> more than i am getting
<matt_linuxlearne> got nice sun shine
<Laney> open your freezer door
<Laney> then point it at the sky
<matt_linuxlearne> but then ,my 50 gallons of neapolitan will melt
<foobarry> in my house, neapolitan is vanilla and strawberry and my wife has eaten the chocolate already
<davmor2> \o/ snow \o/ about the same amount as Laney sees
 * knightwise write up the redesign of the entire infrastructure for one of my clients.
<knightwise> over here its Raining
<Laney> knightwise: with an appropriate amount of lock in to your company yes?
<knightwise> https://www.google.be/maps/place/Corda+Campus/@50.952499,5.350508,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xed3def18ce40a171?sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZurup46bLAhXD7g4KHRECAisQ_BIIfDAQ
<knightwise> Laney: of course we will be designing the solution and guiding the project along :)
<Laney> 999 year support contract
<Laney> sorry nobody other than knightwise could ever possibly administer your infrastructure after this
<knightwise> Laney: nononooo :) We DONT do support
<matt_linuxlearne> is that not what we call creating yoou neash ?
<knightwise> just analysis, design, project management and then we hand over support
<matt_linuxlearne> your*
<Laney> you miss out on a revenue stream :P
<knightwise> we do stick around as the "shared IT manager"
<knightwise> Laney: true , but i dont have the manpower to do the support
<knightwise> and if I did i would have a ton of competitors ..
<knightwise> right now I have a niche : we are independant consultants that work with whatever partner is best for the company. We don't sell you stuff, we don't have an agenda.
<knightwise> thats our pitch
<knightwise> does anyone have any experience in dual booting an acer revo ?
<knightwise> I can't seem to boot into my thumbdrive to install ubuntu
<knightwise> been bugging me forever
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<knightwise> hey guys
<matt_linuxlearne> hey
<awilkins> Recommends for a nice laptop?
<awilkins> Currently ogling up the 2016 model of the Lenovo X1 Carbon
<Myrtti> define nice
<Myrtti> what do you want it to do?
<awilkins> Portable development workstation
<awilkins> Vexes me slightly that the only version of it that supports 16GB of RAM starts at Â£1740ish
<awilkins> Just been made redundant ; have been running with a HP ZBook 15 G2
<awilkins> Nice solid casing, powerful hardware
<awilkins> But a really big fat laptop
<awilkins> I have a very pretty leather laptop briefcase it JUST fits inside
<awilkins> I don't need the NVidia Quadro model they supplied me with though
<awilkins> Less about the pretty graphics and more about the running multiple VMs and manipulating large data graphs
<awilkins> So thinking about something a bit lighter but still with plenty of RAM
<popey> My current laptop lust list includes X1 Carbon, X260, T460s and now a new entrant from Dell, the e7470
<popey> http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/latitude-e7470-ultrabook/pd
<popey> which has a nipple!
<Myrtti> we had a bad run with the Dell XPS15 that dsample bought last year
 * awilkins hates the nipples
<Myrtti> finally got a return and a refund for it last month, now he's shopping for a new laptop
<awilkins> The advantage of nipple as I see it is that they put an extra row of buttons above the touchpad as well as below
<awilkins> And that's IT
<awilkins> Yeah, looking at the T460s
<popey> I want one with Touch and 1080p at least
<awilkins> Lenovo is my default position really
<knightwise> nipples are for thinkpads and girls
<popey> uhm
<awilkins> Touchscreen *spew*
<popey> knightwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjJQBjWYDTs
<awilkins> No way do I want any feature that i) costs more ii) muddies up my display by adding extra layer of transistors iii) muddies up my display by encouraging people to *ugh* touch it
<popey> other people won't be touching it
<knightwise> girls are awesome .. fierce !
<awilkins> Screens are for looking at, not leaving finger grease on
<knightwise> awilkins: i agree . a touchscreen on an xps13 is ... a waste
<Myrtti> yeah, I don't use mine at all
<knightwise> Myrtti: the only thing it adds is glossyness
<awilkins> Another horrible thing
<awilkins> Matt all the way!
<awilkins> (not Matt. Sorry, Matt, MATTE)
<knightwise> awilkins: we all know you love matt :p
<popey> I am often testing touch based apps, so want it mostly for that
<knightwise> or did you mean MATE all the way ?
<popey> I do find myself reaching out to touch the screen of my non-touch laptop sometimes
<popey> then remember
<popey> "oh yeah, not touch"
<knightwise> afree
<awilkins> popey, Yeah, I might be doing some touch based apps *sadface*
<awilkins> Bloody tablets and people who want to use them for productive things *sigh*
<knightwise> awilkins: never mind that they are gonna hook them up to keyboards and mice afterwards
<popey> most get hooked up to keyboards and not mice
<popey> because, why attach a mouse when you have a touch input device
<knightwise> Depends on what you want to do ...
<davmor2> awilkins: but convergence tablet is a laptop is pc is amazing, just ask popey
<knightwise> I for one have never gotten used to typing on a touchscreen fast enough.
<knightwise> Convergence is a very loaded term :p
<awilkins> Convergence implies making things worse, unless the best thing doesn't move
<awilkins> And you just add the capabilities you want from the other things to that thing
<awilkins> (best thing for a given role, ofc)
<popey> knightwise: I didn't say you or me
<popey> Most normals don't attach mice to tablets
<popey> they may attach keyboards (as I said)
<popey> to speed up typing, or to use the device as a pc-like thing for content creation
<knightwise> true. Mice are perhaps a little redundant
<knightwise> I for one ordered me a logitech K811 keyboard that switches between my mac and my ipad.
<knightwise> that way I only need to carry around one device
<popey> yeah, I like the logitech keyboards
<knightwise> and at least my keyboard has a power key
<knightwise> not like the default apple crap one
<davmor2> knightwise: look at surface, yes it's Microsoft but the actual concept of keyboard and pen is perfect for most users
<knightwise> I know.
<knightwise> I use mine a lot. The pen part is great for scetching or writing up reports
<popey> That new surface is very nice
<knightwise> popey: it does have some "glitches"
<knightwise> they are only now ironing out the kinks in hibernation and stuff
<Myrtti> UK peeps: last moments to buy and send mother's day cards and gifts
 * awilkins boos and hurls things
<zmoylan-pi> you've gone shopping on mothers day morning to see young adults sprinting into shops desperate to find any over priced tat in panic? :-)
<Myrtti> no, just dressing up to walk to the post office to mail a card
<Myrtti> just thought someone might appreciate the reminder
<popey> :)
 * awilkins sends mum a box of expensive chocos
<humbot> eep
<foobarry> this year i didn't make the mistake of forgetting that my wife is a mum
<brobostigon> same, cant forget my fiance is a mother as well.
<foobarry> i went overboard and got too much stuff this year
<foobarry> so i just gave one as an ad-hoc "no reason" present, which went down well
<brobostigon> ah.
<MooDoo> :)
<Adriannom> Hi. I've tried uninstalling a font by deleting it from ~/.local/share/fonts but when trying to reinstall it with font viewer it says it's already installed. Copying the font over and using fc-cache doesn't seem to register the font. Any ideas how I can fix it?
<Myrtti> how did you install it in the first place?
<Adriannom> with font viewer
<Adriannom> I just hit "Install" and it was done
<Adriannom> But for some reason there's no "Uninstall" or "Reinstall"
<Adriannom> So my problem currently is that the font is NOT installed, and yet font viewer reports it as "Installed" and the button is greyed out. Installing manually doesn't register the font. Anyone got any ideas?
<Adriannom> Or at least an opinion on whether this is normal behaviour?
<Adriannom> Ok, perhaps if I change my question, when you uninstall a font does Font Viewer still think it's installed?
<Adriannom> Still trying to fix. Just rebooted after ensuring the font isn't installed, but Font Viewer still says it is, and the font doesn't appear in Font Manager or other apps
<diddledan> don't you hate when someone says of cost that "for big business you're already spending a lot, so why not spend more"
<diddledan> one I just came across when comparing xamarin vs hybrid-html cost: https://youtu.be/ajq_vRBvuzs?t=3062
<diddledan> omg, not a community!1! ref: "However, you need to really think about future-proofing your app to stay on top of changes in iOS, Android, and Windows, and whether youâll need more advanced access to a deviceâs sensors or the platform APIs, such as iOSâ 3D Touch, payments, or fingerprint recognition for example.  These features require contributions by a community to provide the necessary plugins"
<diddledan> that's in answer to "is there _any_ situation where hybrid html should be your first choice"
<foobarry> remember that kickstarter about the coolest cooler? i just read they might not deliver after getting $13m
<foobarry> http://thenextweb.com/insider/2016/03/01/coolest-cooler-is-flat-broke-and-looking-for-an-investor-but-backers-are-pissed-off/#gref
<popey> yeah, they've been screwing up non-stop
<zmoylan-pi> turns out you need more than an idea...
<popey> I enjoy https://www.reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters
<foobarry> they sell them on amazon, it actually exists..
<knightwise> whaw :) worst ideas in the history of bad ideas
<daftykins> I was just walking home from the supermarket when i heard a guy outside a pub talk about smashing his phone on concrete, so i went back to offer to fix it :D
<zmoylan-pi> i'd have handed him my nokia and told him to work out his anger... :-)
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> hey zmoylan-pi how goes?
<zmoylan-pi> well, went for a nice walk today in freezing cold.  fed the birds down by sea front... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/705849580756320256/photo/1
<daftykins> THE BIIIIIIIRDS!
<zmoylan-pi> wasn't a good photo, as soon as i stopped dropping bread it was gone and so were they
<daftykins> my understanding was bread is bad for most birds diet? :)
<zmoylan-pi> nah, birds like bread.  not the best food for them, but on a day like today... they'll eat anything up to and including smaller birds earing bread...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-05
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> morning
<foobarry> just borrowed a vax cleaner
<foobarry> they are amazing
<mintsauce> Hello. I'm trying to do-release upgrade Ubuntu 10.04.4 to 12.10. It aborts after a message along the lines of :'It was not possible to authenticate some packages.' which precedes a long list of packages, including apache2.
<mintsauce> How do I get past this error?
<daftykins> impressive, both dead releases
<daftykins> users be cray.
 * zmoylan-pi sells red hat 5.2 floppies in dark internet cafÃ©s... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> 3.5" AND 5.25"
<zleap> i had that
<zleap> on cd as a box set
<daftykins> oof :)
<zmoylan-pi> it was more fun installing from floppy... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> not as fun as installing windows 95 mind...
<zleap> yeah ra write to disk for each disk set, root / boot floppies, a1,a2 etc
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-06
<mapps> hi all;]
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<popey> yo
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> hi
<brobostigon> ol/
<MooDoo> :)
<gebbione> hi folks, whats the best way to copy the OS/data from an old drive to a new bigger one
<andylockran> hey guys, getting a usb loop when plugging in my logitech mx518 and no ideas why: http://dpaste.com/3XP05DT
<andylockran> happens on ubuntu mate on my raspberry pi 3
<penguin42> andylockran: Have you got a powered hub you can put inbetween?
<andylockran> penguin42: unfortuantely not
<andylockran> it's fine on my Aspire (kernel 4.2 wily
<andylockran> just causes a problem for my Raspberry Pi3
<andylockran> but the pi3 has 2 5.1V input, so not short on juice.
<penguin42> ah
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-27
 * m0nkey_ looks in
<m0nkey_> you lot are too quiet
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo_> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> JamesTait: is there a reason you haven't published the day everywhere have you just fallen out with the rest of the t'interwebz
<JamesTait> davmor2, there is a reason - my freenode connection failed at first, and I dind't come back to do it. ð
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, and happy No Brainer Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: slacker
<JamesTait> I've got half a week's worth of emails to catch up on!
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts
<davmor2> hello lo  lo   lo     lo      o      o       o           o
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/mikko/status/836246609541251072
<davmor2> diddledan: he seemed to miss server, supercomputers and cloud
<diddledan> true
<davmor2> diddledan: oh and GPU compute modules
 * diddledan computes some GPUs
<diddledan> aww, he just wants a hug: https://twitter.com/helenhousandi/status/836268308420788228
<davmor2> diddledan: hahahahaha
<zmoylan-pi> a warm leg to cling to on a cold day...
<brobostigon> 14
<brobostigon> sorry
<zmoylan-pi> 12 - that's ok
<ali1234> that's numberwang?
<SuperMatt> I thought it was wangernum
<brobostigon> was meant to have been with /win
<diddledan> wat: http://www.spacex.com/news/2017/02/27/spacex-send-privately-crewed-dragon-spacecraft-beyond-moon-next-year
<zmoylan-pi> i remember when i was a kid and they actually landed their ships there... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> squeee..... pi zero w.... pi zero with wifi and bt...
<ali1234> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
<zmoylan-pi> rampaging mobs of geeks congregating around hardware shops... i must get a rasp pi inspector t-shirt and badge printed... :-P
<ali1234> it still has the crappy old ARMv6 processor
<diddledan> wait, what?!
<zmoylan-pi> it's a pi zero.  it's main goal was small and low power not for compiling kernels
<ali1234> it means you can't run any decent operating system on it
<ali1234> no ubuntu, no android
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi will defend them to the death regardless ;)
<ali1234> raspbian, debian armel (no FPU), or arch (lol)
<ali1234> those are your choices
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: aren't you happy enough about getting a new nokia dumbphone *AND* a Psion replacement? :D
 * zmoylan-pi offers ali1234 and daftykins their choice of foam swords or axes for combat... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> well 2016 killed a lot of people, 2017 is about resurrecting hardware we loved... :-P
<ali1234> also i'd like to point out that the pi 3 isnt suitable for compiling kernels either, it takes ages
<ali1234> and it is about 6 times faster than the zero
<ali1234> but about 100 times slower than my PC
<daftykins> i get the idea that new '3310' needs some thorough road testing...
<ali1234> are they even going to sell the 3310 in europe/america?
<zmoylan-pi> the new 3310 is... meh... 2g so won't work a lot of places the 2g network is shutdown.  no java apps so no installing useful software
<ali1234> is it even new at all? or did they just dust off the old plans?
<zmoylan-pi> it looks like a modded nokia 150
<zmoylan-pi> but it's great advertising for a company only now coming to the android party
<zmoylan-pi> and their high end android looks like a very nice (to some) stock android device
<zmoylan-pi> i joked in another channel a few weeks back that it wouldn't be considered a success unless it was compatible with original pop covers that people have hoarded for 15 years... and i stand by that :-)
<daftykins> well they said 2.5g so i'm not sure if that changes anything but yeah, had the same thought - it also better have threaded SMS ;)
<zmoylan-pi> and i want to see a terminator downed by a nokia 3310 to the head before i buy one... or a cracked pavement slab...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: more likely to kill a terminator with a galaxy note 7
<zmoylan-pi> too much chance of friendly fireball
<diddledan> ooh myy. kinky.
<ali1234> if any of you see a picture of the bottom of the new pi zero can you send me the link please
<daftykins> woohoo i put in the fancy new dCSS device today on the back of my clients' existing satellite dish multiswitch, so Â£65 solution compared with the Sky installers' proposed Â£250 one
<daftykins> functioning just fine in legacy mode (old Sky+ HD boxes) so just need them to bring over the new Sky Q gear tomorrow afternoon and try out the new setup
<daftykins> yet another example of why you don't trust cowboys
<zmoylan-pi> the tech support in india is much better
<daftykins> except maybe with a cattle rustling problem...
<daftykins> how do you factor tech support in? :)
<zmoylan-pi> well you said the cowboys were no use so it must have been the indians who fixed it... :-P
<daftykins> http://www.satelliteandaerialsupplies.com/product/?s=global-invacom-d000363-sky-q-multiswitch-dscr-adaptor
<daftykins> this puppy from a very helpful UK fella sorted things out (at least, assuming success tomorrow)
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed all goes well
<daftykins> no surprises, Sky are trying to trash satellite setups by making them solely work with Sky boxes only in the new Sky Q systems, if the installer comes and fits their new LNB to the dish you won't be able to use freesat on it
<zmoylan-pi> don't worry i'm sure the monopoly people will stop that real soon nowâ¢
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> daftykins: at those prices are you sure _you're_ not the cowboy?!
 * zmoylan-pi plays spaghetti western standoff music as diddledan faces daftykins down...
<daftykins> i checked for a horse and everything, i swear!
<zmoylan-pi> as long as they pony up he'll be happy
<daftykins> oh even better than that, i ordered on their card \o/
<diddledan> haha
<daftykins> cycled through the heavy rain today to retrieve it from the postie though, i ordered it by Friday lunch and they tried to drop it off Saturday!
<daftykins> pretty impressive for rock post
<daftykins> anywho bed for me, can't even read the screen with these new specs :(
<daftykins> ta-ra \o
<zmoylan-pi> o/
 * diddledan watching orphan black
<diddledan> and ripping dvds
 * zmoylan-pi moseys off to grab a shower...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-28
<knightwise> Morning guys
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday and, of course, happy Pancake Day! ð
<diplo> Anyone have any thoughts on why smtp.office365.com resolves and sometimes doesn't on a *nix box, only that address fails
<diplo> It appears to do some sort of round robin to different addresses ( not sure if that is the correct terminology )
<diplo> If I hardcode it to one of the addresses that resolves in /etc/hosts it works fine from then on, but I don't like that solution
<diplo> Do wonder if it's an issue with Poco libraries we use and not like the round robin
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU0iyBsdxCA easy
<diddledan> when you attach the wrong resume: http://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5slbU6WAAAwj9y.jpg
<davmor2> pancake overload
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> well done!
<daftykins> well holy moly, one Sky Q TV setup in and working at long last
<daftykins> (for a client) as evil as the company are and as much as i wouldn't touch broadcast TV services myself, the mini boxes working over LAN to get the picture from the main unit and iOS/Android devices getting to watch live TV over the network as well is quite impressive
<zmoylan-pi> do sky offer an evil channel now?
<daftykins> they all are!
<zmoylan-pi> even the cartoon channels?
<daftykins> undoubtedly :)
<zmoylan-pi> i'll never see spongebob squarepants the same way again!!
<daftykins> clients' 3 year old seems to be all about Peppa Pig
<zmoylan-pi> i stopped watching that when it got all political :-P
<daftykins> then all 1984? :)
<zmoylan-pi> should have stuck with trotskyist manifesto
<daftykins> i got really interested in PBX and SIP malarkey last night, so i've decided to buy - https://www.amazon.com/Linksys-PAP2T-NA/dp/B000Q7PDW2
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: he has square pants come on that has to be evil
<daftykins> well, not that exact one because that's a rip-off - but Â£15 on ebay. my understanding is it'll connect to my landline phone socket then with an IP phone on the desk and a VM running FreePBX i can have an office style setup :>
<diddledan> ALERT: AMAZON IS DOWN. REPEAT. AMAZON IS DOWN. https://twitter.com/awscloud/status/836656554212372480
<daftykins> ;)
<MartijnVdS> ð¨ ð¨ ð¨
<zmoylan-pi> were's your cloud now?? ::insert manical laugh::
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: over head and leaking wet stuff
<zmoylan-pi> that's merely weather...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: it's weather coming from a my cloud though
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: see my cloud is working fine
<MartijnVdS> you run your own openstack? ;)
<daftykins> he must have an office with a window...
<zmoylan-pi> or an office so big clouds can form inside...
<daftykins> ooh the new Apple UFO :P
<zmoylan-pi> i think nasa has a building clouds have formed inside https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_Assembly_Building#Capabilities
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: my cloud is in the sky
<zmoylan-pi> in ireland we expect them at ground level
<avis> http://idroot.net/linux/install-openlitespeed-ubuntu-16-04/
<daftykins> avis: ?
<avis> hi daftykins
<daftykins> is it a guessing game?
<avis> a former friend of mine coded that
<daftykins> former!
<avis> i care about ubuntu they help me other don't
<daftykins> i think that's just "i go where i get what i want"
<avis> he passed away
<avis> redhat 7.3 is great in usa
<daftykins> does crossing the border make it behave differently?
<diddledan> yeah, it's terrible in canadia
<zmoylan-pi> moose infestations in your sock drawers...
<daftykins> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-01
 * m0nkey_ waves
 * ball waves back
<daftykins> bed for me \o
<ball> Goodnight daftykins
<ball> What's a good channel for Linux beginners?  34 people have given me endorsements for Linux on LinkedIn and I feel I should probably learn it.
<m0nkey_> Here :)
<ball> I should have a think this evening about the things about Linux that I would like to learn.
<ball> What does it use for software RAID?
<m0nkey_> mdadm
<m0nkey_> Things to look into if you're using Linux in a business environment: High Availability, Clustering, SELinux (a lot of PCI compliance things need this), Securing linux, etc.
<ball> Thanks. Those sound like helpful suggestions.
 * ball adds Grub to the list
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning
<Guest95749> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy St David's Day! ð  ð²
<davmor2> JamesTait: man you were a guest you really need to sort out your irc mate
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBuwC4VJi50 One David that was a Saint :)
<JamesTait> Yeah, not sure why it's not identifying me by client certificate. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: it hates you, only explanation
<zmoylan-pi> you can blame all bugs/glitches/flamingo ups for next few days on amazon cloud whoopsie :-)
<awilkins> Dumb question : using ssh with ProxyCommand - the Hostname has a lookup at the remote end (through the proxycommand) but it only connects when I use the internal IP address of the remote machine, not it's internal DNS name
<awilkins> Whut
<awilkins> ProxyCommand is executed on your jump host, so surely the dns name should work (since it works fine if you shell into the jump box and then execute the command manually)
<awilkins> Apparently someone has invented a Ruby gem for it...
<awilkins> Ok, redid the Ruby with shell scripts, jq, and the aws cli
<awilkins> Takes ages to connect though, I think because my local SSH client is looking up the domain name and failing
<awilkins> Add a nonsense value to /etc/hosts and it works fine
<marshmn> anyone else find that the 'settings' option in the Spotify client doesn't do anything?
<marshmn> in fact, none of the options on that drop-down appear to work
 * zmoylan-pi loves a good ui that requires instructions to use...
<marshmn> well, it's not that it needs instructions - it just needs to work...
<marshmn> seems to be a bit b0rked
<zmoylan-pi> or you're pressing the buttons wrong... #apple
<daftykins> streaming just isn't for me, although i saw a news piece today claiming they'll offer a lossless quality stream so far - i simply don't and won't have data on a mobile device
<daftykins> much rather managing local files :)
<marshmn> I wasn't asking about my choice in music services :)
<zmoylan-pi> i loved the recent announcement from form that they're going to do away with cd player in cars.  and replace it with streaming audio and _video_ options...
<zmoylan-pi> *from ford that
<daftykins> marshmn: i know that, but this is what we call a conversation, where someone doesn't have to reply with what you want - a fascinating thing!
<zmoylan-pi> out of curiosity, what browser are you using spotify in?
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: soon folk will die from hackers disabling their cars
<zmoylan-pi> won't someone think of the citroens?!
<daftykins> oh, they do... and they shun them for their torsion bars
<zmoylan-pi> still legends... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CitroÃ«n_DS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CitroÃ«n_2CV
<daftykins> the latter is cut in half and in a restaurant bar here ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i saw a mint condition 2cv last year... looked so nice compared to modern safe boring models
<marshmn> zmoylan-pi: I'm not using it in a browser - I'm using the Linux client
<marshmn> daftykins: well, FWIW, I used to think that local files were the way to go; but then one day I tried Spotify and my life felt better :)
<zmoylan-pi> ok, weirder that...
<daftykins> marshmn: you probably don't listen mobile though? just relies on data services too much which isn't practical for me (most of my portable music listening would be cycling in the past)
<marshmn> daftykins: I listen on mobile a lot
<marshmn> daftykins: I have lots of albums synced onto my phone
<marshmn> so download them on WiFi only, listen on the move without using data
<daftykins> yeah that's just not practical to my mind
<marshmn> how is it different to having files locally?
<daftykins> you're tied to the service to obtain them - what if you're somewhere offline - and as i said mobile data is money so meh
<marshmn> they work offline
<daftykins> if it works for you, that's fine... but you can't claim it to work for everyone
<marshmn> I can put my phone into airplane mode - they still work
<daftykins> yes but to obtain more, i can copy files offline fine - can't get more from spotify offline :)
<marshmn> ok...
<daftykins> i don't think you're really considering this objectively.
<marshmn> I just never notice an issue
<daftykins> Alistair Dabbs summed it up well on his Reg review :>
<daftykins> The Register, that is
<marshmn> all I can say is that it has definitely made my life better
<marshmn> I listen to more music now than I did before
<marshmn> I find more new music now than I did before
<marshmn> it's easier to use my favourite music than it was before
<zmoylan-pi> some of the local phone operators in ireland offer spotify data for free on their plans
<marshmn> it's literally made me happier
<daftykins> i can see how it'd help casual discovery, but i can only imagine you had a crap setup before then :)
<daftykins> mmm those strange approaches that harm net neutrality...
<zmoylan-pi> but i totally want local music/audio book/podcast files *PLUS* fm radio
<marshmn> I have local music
<daftykins> and with the new 3310 you can ;)
<marshmn> Spotify downloads it to my phone
<marshmn> you don't need to be online
<zmoylan-pi> 32gb of local files...
<marshmn> you're all living in the past :)
<popey> haha
<popey> marshmn: I'm with you
<popey> spotify all the way
<daftykins> no, you're failing to consider other use-cases
<marshmn> high five
<diddledan> google playdoh!
<popey> daftykins: you are the king of that, mr kettle.
<daftykins> maybe at times
<marshmn> I also don't need to spend time considering which albums to buy
<marshmn> I pay my subscription and they are all there
<daftykins> but then at least i have exposure to all the sides and comment on them fairly instead of fanboyism :)
<marshmn> Elbow album released - listen straight away
<popey> stop judging
<daftykins> yep and you also get to enjoy losing them when stuff gets pulled
<marshmn> no buying it, downloading it
<popey> you dont lose what you never had
<popey> its just music, not the crown jewels
<diddledan> hmm, how did I lose my sanity then?!
<daftykins> popey: that's an incredibly stupid statement
<popey> thats rude
<marshmn> daftykins: so you don't watch Netflix or any other streaming video either?
<daftykins> marshmn: nah too much of a quality snob for streaming bitrates
<marshmn> lol
<marshmn> living in the past
<popey> when i die i wont miss not having a pile of cds for someone else to sort out
<diddledan> is MWC still ongoing?
<daftykins> but i use Kodi with a discless library
<popey> diddledan: yeah, last day tomorrow
<popey> its madness here
<daftykins> marshmn: nope, see you don't know my setup so you can't comment
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> just 'cause i don't pay a company to hold my hand :)
<popey> these snide responses are very unseemly
<daftykins> got a problem?
<diddledan> daftykins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46_yYR6tGOI
 * zmoylan-pi breaks out the hurdygurdy for latest tunes... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHmML7bu-iM
<popey> haha, thats awesome
<diddledan> wtf is a hurdy gurdy?!
<popey> how does he have the co-ordination to do that!
<zmoylan-pi> it's just like patting your head and rubbing your tummy and then switching every few seconds... :-D
<popey> hah
<daftykins> another angle to the streaming services is for e.g. my clients who nip down to Spain and can't use them due to regional restrictions (for some)
<daftykins> that's always a downer
<diddledan> daftykins: that's what piracy is for
<daftykins> heh
<marshmn> so where do you buy your video content?
<daftykins> you try and do the right thing though, like their kids amazon tablet with downloaded episodes - but then it pops up asking to go online just briefly to verify you're allowed to play them... madness
<zmoylan-pi> i wouldn't want to even consider streaming if i lived within 10 miles of a border as roaming would be fun
<diddledan> I buy my video on betamax tapes
<diddledan> they're gonna be around forever
<zmoylan-pi> no laserdisc will around forever as no one has a player anymore... :-P
<diddledan> laserdiscs wear out where the pickup scratches the surface
<zmoylan-pi> you just need a sharper needle
<diddledan> laserdisc on the bbc micro on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYvAcE_yNiQ
<zmoylan-pi> the doomsday project thingy?
<marshmn> daftykins: if you want to rent a movie to watch, since you don't like Netflix etc., then where do you buy it to rent?
<daftykins> not really a film person as it goes
<daftykins> i notice you didn't choose to comment on any of the streaming woes tales i've shared?
<marshmn> lol
<daftykins> sure isn't funny when you're trying to shut up your client's son with a TV episode and it won't play due to DRM XD
<marshmn> I never have any issues with streaming
<daftykins> right but see above
<marshmn> Netflix downloads don't seem to make you go online
<marshmn> I was using one on a non-connected tablet the other day on the train
<marshmn> but in any case, you've not suggested an alternative...
<marshmn> just moaned
<daftykins> that's false
<marshmn> where should I rent movies from?
<daftykins> i just said i don't really watch films so i don't see why my opinion has to be less valid because i am not giving you options for your preferences in life
<marshmn> lol
<zmoylan-pi> still video shops hanging on. just not a walk away... and doesn't netflix still send out dvds?
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of places still don't have decent broadband
<marshmn> you can rent DVDs from LoveFilm
<daftykins> for my client we hired a kid to rip his whole disc collection 1:1 and have it all on a large file server, at some point i'll duplicate that for down in his Spain place too
<daftykins> won't matter when services go down, then
<marshmn> OK
<marshmn> well, enjoy you're life - I'll enjoy mine :)
<diddledan> don't forget your video will never fade with Scotch Video Tapes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4rv81zxBGQ
<daftykins> marshmn: i know a lot of folks are enjoying the convenience of streaming services, but they all have to accept sacrifices to do so - claiming it's all bulletproof is being daft really
<daftykins> just like how i won't defend having to rip + place files with the right names for Kodi to scrape them isn't without a need for some effort
<zmoylan-pi> and there were a lot of channels yesterday complaining when amazons cloud went down as netflix went with it
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> cloud is a grand and wonderful fluffy thing but i won't ever depend on it, i'll always aim to have a replacement on standby for when it's not about
<daftykins> exactly
<marshmn> daftykins: I'm not suggesting that it's perfect; everything in life is a compromise; all I'm saying is that my quality of life has definitely got better by using these things :)
 * zmoylan-pi checks to make sure my semaphore flags haven't been gotten at by moths... :-)
<daftykins> i suspect it helps i haven't got any kids to ruin my fun...
<marshmn> daftykins: maybe your quality of life wouldn't be improved by using these things, but I suspect it would be
<marshmn> maybe you should give them a try for 6 months and see whether you go back
<daftykins> nah, i saw Amazon Prime on my clients LG OLED 4K TV attempt 4K streaming, looked terrible
<marshmn> lol
 * diddledan stores zmoylan-pi in the cloud
<marshmn> but you're not a film person
<daftykins> i see where you're coming from but the thing is i *HAVE* seen these things
<marshmn> you've not told us where to get our 4k video from
<daftykins> it was TV series streaming, i'm more of a box set rip kinda person
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: strange that you're talking on a cloud service telling us you'll never use the cloud :-p
<zmoylan-pi> i'll never depend _only_ on something like the cloud... whole other world of difference
<daftykins> marshmn: you're joking right? seriously standard blurays look better than 4K streaming services
<marshmn> but they aren't very convenient
<diddledan> cloud ========= internet (many more than three = signs because I wanted to be very sure to prove that they're really the exact same thing beyond value and type)
<marshmn> so I don't think you do that
<marshmn> do you even have a 4k TV?
<diddledan> wat?
<diddledan> 4k?!
<ali1234> bro, do you even 4k?
<diddledan> who got time for that?!
<zmoylan-pi> i don't even have a tv :-)
<diddledan> all my TVs are unplugged
<ali1234> i used to know a guy who had a server full of TV shows and movies and never watched them
<daftykins> once it's ripped it's convenient :>
<diddledan> I use my puter for video
<zmoylan-pi> my last one was a 14" colour portable that packed it in 10plus years ago...
<daftykins> can't rip the 4K discs yet though, only just launched drives and it'll take some time
<ali1234> spending more on electricity than the cost of netflix
<diddledan> ali1234: was he me?
<marshmn> daftykins: it's not convenient to rip every bluray that you want to rent
<ali1234> netflix didn't exist then of course
<marshmn> and as you say, you're not doing that anyway
<daftykins> i don't believe we're arguing about convenience
<marshmn> so it's all bogus
<diddledan> wait, 4k blurries need a new player?!
<marshmn> convenience is a huge part of it
<daftykins> diddledan: yep too many layers
<marshmn> do you have a 4k TV?
<marshmn> no.
<marshmn> so no point making that argument
<marshmn> it makes no difference to your life right now
<diddledan> I get that they would for the video output phase, but for PC use surely it doesn't make a diff (you'dathunk)
<ali1234> for PC it doesn't
<daftykins> tbh now i've seen one i don't think 4K has really added that much - although ask me again once i go there another time with new specs that work :(
<ali1234> for players, it needs not just 4k output, but also new codecs
<daftykins> at a minimum you'd need a drive capable of a given speed and maybe a firmware update for handling the layers... but for whatever reason you have to get new drives for PC right now
<marshmn> daftykins: if you don't have 20/20 vision then I'm afraid we can't accept your opinion
<daftykins> you also need the SGX feature on intel CPUs for 4K disc
<zmoylan-pi> my dm about 3months ago was asking if we the gaming group thought it was worthwhile to upgrade his sky subscription to high def for his shiny new huge high res tv... we all wear glasses as does he and none of us could see a difference in quality
<diddledan> ali1234: says you do need a special drive on a PC accordin to 25/26jan2017 news articles (just googlified "bluray drive 4k")
<daftykins> marshmn: it's fine, i just scoot closer for now ;)
<daftykins> major vision problems since getting some new specs the other week though, ugh
<ali1234> diddledan: "special" as in "blessed by the MPAA"
<ali1234> if you are ripping them on linux (if thats even possible) i doubt it makes any difference
<daftykins> i suspect there's nobody in here that can comment on whether the previous drives optics can handle the 4K discs
<zmoylan-pi> someone in one of my other channels was ripping a lot of blu rays a few months back on linux so it must be possible
<daftykins> new DRM on the 4K discs so even with a compatible drive in a Linux machine it's gonna take time
<daftykins> there isn't even a software player right now
<zmoylan-pi> ah, i suppose wait the usual 6-18 months and then it'll be sorted
<marshmn> the one thing I DO miss when using online services is that you don't usually get access to the bonus materials from DVDs etc :(
<daftykins> might be, using this intel CPU feature could be more cunning than usual 0o
<diddledan> makemkv are prolly working on breaking the crypto :-p
<ali1234> "ultra HD blu ray is a new disc format"
<zmoylan-pi> might as well be betamax 2 for all i care :-)
<zmoylan-pi> each time they chop and change the hardware orphaning old hardware they annoy their customers a little more
<ali1234> yeah, and the discs get scratched
<ali1234> they should just sell movies on SD cards
<daftykins> pretty mad they had to invent a protective layer for BD, mmm
<zmoylan-pi> considering the amount of data on them i'm guessing even a tiny scratch will bugger them
<daftykins> ali1234: definitely!
<daftykins> lovely solid state, nice small units...
<ali1234> 64GB micro SD is like $19 now
<zmoylan-pi> they should have stuck to using optical disks in caddies like when cd-roms first came along
<ali1234> make it read only and mass produced and i am sure it would be cheaper
<zmoylan-pi> i got a lovely otg 2 header usb, mini usb usb drive 64gb for â¬30.  great for copying files to tablet phone when out and about
<ali1234> of course even if they did that i still wouldn't buy them, because movies suck
<daftykins> every single one? :D
<zmoylan-pi> the only movies i want to see 90% of the time were made pre 1990
<marshmn> wat
<ali1234> just the new ones mainly
<marshmn> you're watching the wrong films I think
<ali1234> what are some good recent movies?
<daftykins> i liked 'Arrival' :D
<marshmn> here are my top50 movies: https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/favorited/?user=marshmn
<daftykins> thumbs up to #3 and #5 straight off
<zmoylan-pi> it's like when you pick up someone elses mp3 playing device that you discover their awful taste in music... :-D
<ali1234> i've seen nearly all of those :)
<ali1234> i haven;t seen (or heard of) eastern promises
<zmoylan-pi> i do have some of those on dvd... :-)
<marshmn> ali1234: it's a David Cronenberg film
<ali1234> oh, it's recent
<ali1234> most recent cronenberg i saw was existenz
<marshmn> I'm not sure what you class as "recent" :)
<ali1234> made this century pretty much
<zmoylan-pi> i thought existenz was made in century of the fruitbat? :-P
<ali1234> on your list... i've seen all the movies made before 2002 and none of the ones after, pretty much
<marshmn> well now you have some new ones to watch :p
<ali1234> yes, thanks :)
<diddledan> they're all foreign (the recent ones)
<marshmn> there's a few, yeah
<diddledan> weird-ass titles that I can't read
<marshmn> lol
<diddledan> except inception
<marshmn> don't dismiss them... the best films made don't just happen to be the English ones ;)
<ali1234> oh there's a page two... i didn't notice
<marshmn> Oldeuboi (Oldboy) is an amazing foreign film
<zmoylan-pi> if i had to list my top 5 films not already listed. in no particular order * 2010 * good bad and the ugly * seven samurai * blazing saddles * the longest day
<marshmn> they made an English re-make of it a few years back - but nowhere near as good as the original (in Korean)
<diddledan> blazing saddles!
<ali1234> i used to know a guy who raved about oldboy
<diddledan> cat balou was a fun one from ancient times
<ali1234> actually it was the same guy with the server with loads of tv shows and movies
<marshmn> ali1234: have you seen it? (the original)
<ali1234> no
<marshmn> really, really worth a watch
<zmoylan-pi> and it must kill hollywood that they could never do a remake of blazing saddles
<marshmn> ali1234: but please watch the original
<diddledan> I figure blazing saddles was made in the only time it was ever going to be acceptible to make it
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<ali1234> what, no
<ali1234> blazing saddles was way ahead of it's time
<diddledan> i.e. not so early that it was blatantly "screw you ******'s". and not so recent that it was racist
<zmoylan-pi> they offered john wayne the part of taggart the cowboy and he had to turn it down as it would kill his career but said he'd be first in line when it came out
<diddledan> it was a case of a two or three year period where it wasn't socially awkward to make it
<zmoylan-pi> and i still after umpteen times seeing it cannot not laugh at the beans and campfire scene
<daftykins> i never got around to Oldboy 'cause i have very little motivation for films to begin with... but once they're subbed only it's a lot of work
<marshmn> work?
<marshmn> to watch them you mean?
<diddledan> if they did it now they'd be strung-up for ridiculing racism and civial rights movement. if they made it before they really did it would have been seen as heretical black sympathising
<marshmn> because of having to read the subtitles?
<diddledan> yes, reading subtitties is hard
<marshmn> wow
<daftykins> yeah, i think it's harder these days because of how many distraction sources there are - i probably enjoyed "Arrival" because it was the first time i actually sat down and even ignored my phone for the whole thing XD
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> sppelign
<daftykins> i get really irked by grammatical or spelling errors in them too :P
<daftykins> sometimes the timing can be poor so you have to skip back, as well
<diddledan> daftykins: whats wrong with gramma and spelling error's?
<zmoylan-pi> wow i have bad eyesight and i could read subitles of seven samurai on 2nd generation 8bg ipod nano
<marshmn> maybe it's best if you stick to your hollywood dross blockbusters :)
 * diddledan busts marshmn's block
<daftykins> i've really liked some foreign stuff i've seen, but you can't deny it isn't more requiring of effort
<daftykins> er, think i put too many negatives in there
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: what are BGs? Belly Guffaws?
<marshmn> you just get used to it
<daftykins> Bee Gees!
<zmoylan-pi> it's when you store the movie backwards diddledan :-)
<diddledan> 8 Belly Gaffaws
<marshmn> you kind of forget about the subtitles once you have watched enough of them
<marshmn> I never feel like it's going to be 'hard work'
<marshmn> I definitely don't choose to watch some other film because xyz has subtitles
<daftykins> animÃ© subs though... :D
<diddledan> daftykins: I bet you prefer hentai
<daftykins> *gasp*
<diddledan> you're a sick pervert really, right? :-p
<daftykins> i leave all the tentacles alone, as it happens
<diddledan> what about the noodly appendage?
<diddledan> I've been touched once or twice by that hallowed thing
<diddledan> pastafarian teaching should be required reading
<ali1234> marshmn: why don't you like beverly hills cop 2?
<daftykins> something that strikes me about those 80s classics is how basic a premise the actors and actresses of the time riff on that somehow gained popularity o0
<daftykins> like Eddie Murphy and blabbing super fast... or Whoopi Goldberg doing weird little impressions during her chats ;)
<zmoylan-pi> noodly appendage this... http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0020.html
<marshmn> ali1234: lol
<marshmn> sorry, it just missed out on my top50 :p
<ali1234> daftykins: bull murray carried on his 80s schtick right up until now
<ali1234> or another non 80s example: keanu
<marshmn> time for me to hit the sack; night all
<ali1234> or owen wilson
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> wtf, zmoylan-pi ?!
<zmoylan-pi> order of the stick. great comic for dnd fans
 * m0nkey_ appears
<diddledan> and on that note, it's bedtime
<daftykins> it is!?
<daftykins> diddledan: you've gone all - normal on us!
 * m0nkey_ has already been spanked.
<daftykins> what O_O
<m0nkey_> Bad m0nkey_!
<m0nkey_> No banana!
<daftykins> cor, i think your bedroom antics should stay in those 4 walls! :)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-02
<ball> Mornin'
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> how goes it, sir?
<ball> Not bad thanks. How about you?
<daftykins> yeah not too shabby... slow progress on my bathroom water leak insurance job though - awaiting quotes for the work right now
<ball> hello ubot9
<ball> Ugh.  Plumbing is high on the list of things I don't enjoy.
<ball> (especially when it fails)
<daftykins> oops didn't realise i never responded!
<ball> That's ok
<daftykins> yep don't mind the fix, but the hoop jumping is taking so long
<daftykins> been without a shower for must be 5 weeks now too
<daftykins> sole facilities in the place, so i have to go elsewhere
<ball> Sounds inconvenient.
 * ball downloads Ubuntu Server 16.04.2
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i always stuck to the vanilla images myself so i didn't get an HWE kernel
<daftykins> well, 16.04.1 stuck to the original too
<ball> I don't know what an HWE is.
<ball> ...but I'm sort of new to Linux.
<ball> (I say "sort of" because the first time I installed it, Linux came on a stack of 5.25" 1200K floppies.
<daftykins> ah in ubuntu, let's say an LTS release is a year in or so, the newer kernel and X stack in the newer release gets backported as a hardware enablement stack
<daftykins> !hwe
<lubotu3> The Ubuntu LTS enablement stacks provide newer kernel and X support for existing LTS releases, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
<daftykins> :D how many of said floppies?
<ball> I honestly don't remember.  I do remember having to bolt a new floppy drive into my boss' desktop PC.
<ball> (his existing drive was 360K)
<daftykins> daym
<daftykins> one of these days when my folks tidy the house up a bit more, the Apple II will need a test run - if any floppies can be found
<ball> Someone recycled mine some years ago.
<daftykins> a crime!
<ball> I was quite disappointed at the time but I'm over it now.
<daftykins> mmm that's the thing, there's a limit to the fond memories really
<daftykins> we had some apricot 486's as kids, but the main ones CMOS battery had died and i don't even know how to configure a SCSI controller card by hand in such an ancient system
<daftykins> so seeing it boot again could well take some hours of work
<ball> Apricot built some lovely hardware back in the day.
<daftykins> the machine in question originally had tapes of 10MB for a 'hard disk' that inserted on the front, but the drive died after a while so my dad got the local company to throw in the SCSI solution
<daftykins> also had a second one that was floppy drive only :) good memories of Lemmings 1 etc
<daftykins> right best sleep, ta-ra \o
<ball> Sleep well!
<knightwise> morning peeps
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> morning
<SuperMatt> g'day
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> isn't it a sign popey isn't here with how deathly quiet it is
<popey> lies
<davmor2> morning popey how's your feet?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> 469.98 for an i7 laptop with 8gb what's the catch there then
<diplo> Prices are coming down ? :)
<brobostigon> thats basiclly almost all my monthly wage gone right there, if i were to buy that, :(
<foobarry> the catch is that when the battery dies, you'll have to throw it away
<foobarry> and hardly anything is upgradeable
 * brobostigon holds up his nexus 4.
<Guest34673> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy World Book Day! ð ð®
<diddledan> davmor2: that laptop even has an SSD
<TwistedLucidity> What make? (I check the IRC log, didn't see it mentioned)
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: HP
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: it's a special offer on ebuyer
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, prolly old gen. Still, a decent deal at that price I guess.
<diddledan> it's a 6000series intel i6
<diddledan> i7
<diddledan> i.e. skylake
<TwistedLucidity> Still better than my T430. :-)
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCWn_zANcLo (there's swearing)
<davmor2> diddledan: for the price it is a ridiculous spec
<knightwise> Yo peeps
<diddledan> my gosh, buffy turns 20 this month. facebook is littered with posts telling me
<diddledan> I wonder if anyone is working on fixing the vulnerability(ies) in encfs?
<diddledan> (it warns you when you install it and asks if you really want it on ubuntu)
<mretomo> #undernet
<mretomo> chanel list
<mretomo> [#undernet]
<popey> davmor2: they ache
<davmor2> popey: no really I've no idea why it's not like you've been stood around all day for 3 days straight right?
<foobarry> diddledan: encfs is bad?
<diddledan> foobarry: according to the dialog when you apt install it
<foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/813290/encfs-insecure-what-to-use-now
<diddledan> yeah those responses just repeat the same as the dialog
<diddledan> I already knew all that
<DJones> foobarry: diddledan: There are bugs in Linux.....uh oh, I was more concerned that popey was being replaced by a robot https://insights.ubuntu.com/wp-content/uploads/3047/Robot.png :)
<DJones> Certanly wouldn't do the RAT again good
<DJones> s/again/any/
<davmor2> DJones: I don't know might make a great waiter
<DJones> davmor2: Yeah, still waiting for the coffee I ordered 9 hours ago......
<foobarry> diddledan: i didn't :( sad now
<foobarry> i am using encfs is certain situations
<diddledan> lol: https://twitter.com/CiPHPerCoder/status/837390104805195777
<davmor2> diddledan: that would be funny if it wasn't so true
<foobarry> handy site: https://decentsecurity.com/#/malware-web-and-phishing-investigation/
<zmoylan-pi> no one is to hack yahoo until i blow this whistle even and i want to make this absolutely clear even if they hate marissa myers
<diddledan> so dedupe is the opposite of redundancy? </troll> :-p
 * diddledan accidentally hacks yahoo despite zmoylan-pi 's instructions
<zmoylan-pi> i thought it was the lite version of rm
 * zmoylan-pi blows whistle to indicate a penalty against diddledan and causes a few yahoo servers to crash...
<ali1234> did something happen with yahoo today?
<ali1234> or just in general?
<diddledan> just in general I think
<zmoylan-pi> in last few days i think there was another hack
<diddledan> lol @ fakequote: https://twitter.com/delrayser/status/837430019752284161
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/02/yahoo_internal_hack_investigation_is_daming_marissa_mayer_loses/
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> that's damning
<diddledan> re-rendering in HD of a 13second DS9 battle scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEUG_ibsZck
<zmoylan-pi> i think in last 2 seasons of ds9 they had to move to cgi for effects iirc
<zmoylan-pi> it was a pity they ignored ds9 when it came to making movies. best of the trek franchises to my mind
<diddledan> it's difficult to keep coming-up with stories for a static point-in-space rather than a ship that can move - the reason DS9 and B5 were good series is because they had a long-running story rather than being truly episodic
<diddledan> movies tend to be episodic so you have a start middle and end in every movie. more difficult to have long-running stories
<zmoylan-pi> could easily have been what happened to garak when he got back home...
<zmoylan-pi> they could even have done what babylon5 did with made for tv movies for their few spin off movies
<diddledan> the S3 failure on tuesday was PEBKAC: https://aws.amazon.com/message/41926/
<zmoylan-pi> time to update their linkedin profile... :-P
<diddledan> their solution is an "are you sure?" prompt
<diddledan> $ kill-all-servers -y # -y bypasses the prompt because we all know that typing -y on the commandline is instinctive and truly reflects our intentinos
<zmoylan-pi> so pipe y into the prompt...
<zmoylan-pi> imagine the damage a disgruntled/off balance worker could do if they set out to maximise the damage
<diddledan> noisy washing machine! >.<
<diddledan> I think I must be keeping the neighbours awake
<zmoylan-pi> i only do my laundry between 1100-2000 to avoid annoying neighbours
<diddledan> sounds like it's done now
 * zmoylan-pi moseys off for shower...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-03
<knightwise> Morning peeps
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> Morning
<SuperMatt> ning
<foobarry> left my spotify streaming sebadoh  all night. think of all the royalties i gave them
<SuperMatt> listen to this to make up for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J94Xb6j8-U
<foobarry> popey: got any dashcam recommendations pls?
<foobarry> my wife is bugging me for one
<foobarry> i recall u showing a video of yours
<popey> http://www.techmoan.com/guide-to-dashcams/ is the best place to learn
<popey> mine is 2 years old now, he reviewed loads
<popey> http://www.techmoan.com/what-is-the-best-dashcam/ specifically
<foobarry> thanks. did u leave yours in the car all the time?
<foobarry> #centos has an annoying mode where they kick you into an unregistered channel if you are not registered. except i am
<popey> foobarry: I do
<diplo> Yeah, tis why I left the channel foobarry - also never found the channel helpful
<popey> foobarry: yeah, happens in other channels too if you get disconnected during a netsplit
<foobarry> people seem to be talking about rear view mirror cams a bit now
<popey> yeah, not sure why
<SuperMatt> I guess you'd want one in case someone goes in to the back of you
<popey> why?
<SuperMatt> though by law that's always their fault
<popey> right, not a lot point unless you live in russia
<foobarry> no, they fix onto your rear view mirror
<SuperMatt> I guess it could be so that you can show you weren't brake checking
<popey> some dont
<SuperMatt> oh right
<foobarry> you can rotate in 180 deg though
<foobarry> it allows better interaction with the cam
<foobarry> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Falcon-Zero-HD-Accident-Dual-Camera/dp/B00E56WY18 e.g.
<foobarry> "mirrorcam"
<foobarry> not sure if my car allows the auto start/stop
<popey> that looks way too bulky for my liking
<popey> most cars do auto start/stop with the aux socket
<foobarry> I'm trying to figure out how to wire up a dashcam to my Mk2.5(?) Focus (08 plate). I'm aware that cigar lighter and 12v aux socket are both permanent live and looking for a solution to getting ignition live.
<foobarry> ^^ looks like my focus is "special"
<popey> ah, so you need to run a wire to the fuse box I guess
<foobarry> thats annoying
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Care Giver Appreciation Day! ð â¤
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> good morning mr brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning Mr SuperMatt
<foobarry> would it be an issue if a dashcam can't read number plates?
<foobarry> seems like a lot of cheaper HD ones can't
<foobarry> and most would struggle at night
<zmoylan-pi> i think most plod expect the driver to be able to read and remember the licence plate of the plonker who did x
<diplo> Depends on you really doesn't it. From what I've heard most people use it as a backup to insurance claims/police and the people are still there
<diplo> If you want to be able to catch someone you'll need to spend more :)
<foobarry> as in "X was driving on wrong side of the road when the incident occurred"
<foobarry> "X says he wasn't"
<foobarry> "Y produces footage"
<foobarry> the lack of "ignition on" is a pain, costs extra Â£40 for a kit to go straight to my fuse box
<diplo> yeah, the cheap one would cover you fine on that I'd say. But if someone did a hit and run is where you want to spend more
<diplo> But it's a one off cost and you can move it from car to car ?
<foobarry> its still extra munneh i hadn't expected
<foobarry> in light of recent phone rules in cars, can anyone recommend a phone dock?
<popey> foobarry: being able to read numberplates seems like a minimum requirement
<foobarry> i'll check on youtube. amazon video files suck
<popey> foobarry: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B015VSA21C/ i have that one
<foobarry> ta
<popey> foobarry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXWQ5GAr02A that was the video i previously shared showing video quality
<popey> (note that youtube compressed it a bit)
<foobarry> which cam was that?
<popey> freeze frame 31 seconds you can clearly read the van numberplate
<popey> which I'm passing at a bit of speed
<popey> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00IPDD59W that one
<popey>  29 June 2014  was when i ordered it, so getting on a bit now
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM5IvetD0Gg doesn't quite get the number plates
<popey> i see them at 8s
<foobarry> almost
<foobarry> not enough to read though?
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Phone in pocket & ignored. Safest way.
<TwistedLucidity> Although I do sometimes Bluetooth it to the radio for listening to podcasts. Could do handsfree calling, but I rarely do.
<diplo> ahah I just read back through the logs and was about to same the same as TwistedLucidity :)
<diplo> I'm at the point now that I try not to answer it straight on purpose at anytime just because it's expected now.
<TwistedLucidity> If a call is important, then it's worth your time to pull over and do it safely.
<diplo> yep, or in my case I just get my eldest to answer it, but more often than not now I just don't bother until I reach where I am going
<Laney> have the thing on silent then you won't even know
<foobarry> sometimes on the motorway its important to receive or make a call
<foobarry> my car has bluetooth integration for voice calls
<foobarry> and "ok google, call my wife " works
<popey> Before we had phones it wasn't important to receive or make calls in the car. Also, the hard shoulder is a thing.
<diplo> That's how I feel now too
<foobarry> also google navigation is much better than tomtom
<foobarry> ok google, whats the traffic like
<foobarry> "traffic is light, you should reach your destination in 30 minutes"
<SuperMatt> Problem with google maps is that it still doesn't know my address, and my building has existed for a year and a half
<diplo> Yeah I don't mind google maps so much as you don't need to interact with it, talking on a phone is different even in a holder imo but that's all it is my opinion :)
<foobarry> well the phone is routing through my stereo
<diplo> haha SuperMatt, hope you don't need a map to get home.
<foobarry> so if you are needing a quick call to say you won't make the meeting because there's traffic..
<foobarry> you aren't even allowed to touch the phone in stationary traffic any more
<SuperMatt> That's fair though
<SuperMatt> because I've seen people fiddling with their phone at the lights
<SuperMatt> then they see the car in front move forward slightly so they start moving while still looking at their phone
<foobarry> i hate that
<foobarry> people do whatsapp when there's a 2s pause
<foobarry> things are ridiculous now
<foobarry> waiting for a bus on the A10 you see every type of behaviour in 5 mins
<foobarry> kids jumping around in the back of the car without seatbelts
<SuperMatt> I think what people need to start doing, if they have a modern android phone, is put it in to "do not disturb" mode when they get in to a car
<SuperMatt> then you don't get vibrations from the messages
<diplo> foobarry: If I was in that position I'd find somewhere to pull over to make the call, as I say that's me though, seen 2 accidents with people using their phones as the cause and a friend injured from someone not concentrating
<foobarry> using their phones, or having a hands free conversation?
<Dave> people need to just realise they're driving and the nofifications aren't that important.
<diplo> My kids have never taken their belts off, I think most of our issues now adays are parenting issues
<foobarry> not that i do hands free calls often
<foobarry> sometimes its kinda necessary and need to be able to do it safely
<diplo> Both afaik, one was in a meeting in the car
<foobarry> yeah i think "having a meeting/chat" is liekly to cause lack of concentration
<foobarry> i got a server with 6 gpu in it. but missing the specific power cables :(
<diplo> Unstandard cables ?
<foobarry> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-pcs-6-PIN-TO-6-PIN-PCIE-graphic-card-POWER-CABLE-CCBL-146H-9-ORIGINAL-/222373205521?hash=item33c679d611:g:lucAAOSwrklU7pje
<foobarry> GPU power cables
<diplo> ah right, I forget about stuff like that, not had new hardware in soooooo long
<foobarry> they are kinda standard i think but not in our spares box
<diplo> Matalan near you ?
<foobarry> maplin?
<diplo> What happened with your job hunting foobarry ? any luck ?
<diplo> ahahahah yeah maplin, I'm tired sorry :)
<foobarry> went for internal promotion
<foobarry> waiting to hear
<diplo> Good luck!
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: TomTom doesn't have live traffic? Strange, our Garmin does
<TwistedLucidity> Hands-free use of a mobile is also unsafe. Situation will change when we have fully autonomous cars though.
<zmoylan-pi> then you'll just have to worry about your gaining sentience and wanting to kill you
<zmoylan-pi> *your car
<TwistedLucidity> Never name your robo car "Christine"
<zmoylan-pi> you'd rather be killed by herbie?
<DJones> TwistedLucidity: My TomTom has live traffic, but needs to be connected to a mobile phone by bluetooth to get the live traffic info
<zmoylan-pi> they tried updates by pigeons but drivers just complained about all the extra pigeon packets all over their cars :-P
<TwistedLucidity> DJones: Huh, our Garmin just seems to do it. Must be tied in with Trafficmaster or something
<DJones> Could be I guess, My TomTom needs the use of mobile data
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wmIyD1fM4M looks like a good dual function dash cam /action cam
<foobarry> better reg plate footage
<foobarry> good night footage
<foobarry> think i'm gonna get this
<foobarry> argh there's a windows only app to change settings
<foobarry> ah, it dumps a config.txt file you can change settings on linux
<diddledan> lol @ config.txt - why don't people build devices with real configuration file formats?!
<diddledan> even ini would be better than txt
<diddledan> yaml seems to be the new hotness right now
<zmoylan-pi> no... it needs a registry that you have to edit live... :-P
<diddledan> :-o
 * zmoylan-pi wonders how you update the firmware without the windows software...
 * zmoylan-pi loves a good ini file... there's often documentation in there that lets you find hidden features
<TwistedLucidity> Well, supporting Windows gets them 90+% percent of the market. Can't really blame them.
<TwistedLucidity> (I had to use Windows to transfer new firmware to a printer - total pain)
<TwistedLucidity> And it was a total pain because the firmware installer didn't work, so hackery was involved (thanks, HP)
<diddledan> speaking of which, wasn't there a vulnerability in pretty much every wifi printer a while back?
<diddledan> I forgot to check whether mine was affected and now I can't remember the specifics to google for it
<TwistedLucidity> Can't recall, never see the point of a WiFi printer
<foobarry> so you can print from your laptop
<foobarry> to a printer under your bed
<zmoylan-pi> it's so you can count script kiddies in your area who print rude/weird things on your insecure printer :-P
<foobarry> at least thats where my printer is. it magically spits out pages from under the bed
<knightwise> foobarry: lol
<diddledan> looks like mine stopped getting updates - the most recent firmware is 2014 :-(
<knightwise> Since i'm using a laptop 99 percent of the time , printing via wifi/over the network is mandatory
<TwistedLucidity> If I want a WiFi printer, I can just wire the thing to the LAN
<TwistedLucidity> Or USB it to a RasPi
<daftykins> cables \o/
<zmoylan-pi> with scrap value when brexit goes wrong... :-P
<diddledan> wifi isn't the draw of a wifi printer, it's the networking itself - most wifi printers come with an ethernet rj45
<TwistedLucidity> And don't forget to block the printer's access to WAN
<diddledan> then you can't print from google
<TwistedLucidity> Why on Earth would I ever want to do that?
<knightwise> I use google print a lot. I get an invoice in my mailbox at work , press print and boom , i have it printed out at home
<foobarry> why on google earth?
<knightwise> Its extremely convenient when you need to keep track of your invoices
<diddledan> yeah google cloud print is handy
<TwistedLucidity> The invoice is electronic; why not just use the PC to keep track of it?
<diddledan> at a client site you can prod a button on your smartphone and get a print-out for when you get home
<popey> foobarry: amusingly I just grabbed the sd card out of my car to look at the footage from it...
<foobarry> ..
<popey> I put the car in long term parking at gatwick this week
<diddledan> popey: did you crash?
<knightwise> Its odd , but Mint runs better in a VM on my XPS13 runnign windows 10 then it did natively on the machine
<popey> was fun watching the video from the guy moving the car in the car park
<foobarry> was he singing
<foobarry> i thought your cam broke?
<popey> no, but when reversing he did mutter "Can't see a fscking thing!"
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> you need to clean your windows? :-p
<popey> it was 6am and raining
<daftykins> knightwise: not a surprise :) no idea why anyone touches that distro anymore
<diddledan> aaah
<diddledan> I don't like mint
<diddledan> they recompile _some_ things and break other things in the ubuntu repo which are supposed to be compatible
<daftykins> yip
<foobarry> popey: was the cam u linked to your old one?
<daftykins> think they hold back security fixes too?
<diddledan> I mean they recompile things and put in THEIR repo with a higher priority than the buntu repo and then when you install a supposedly compatible thing which comes from the buntu repo it just fails
<foobarry> i thought it fell ovff and smashed
<ali1234> all distributions break things
<popey> ooh, i think they looked in my boot!
<daftykins> well even if they do, there's no good reason to run Mint
<ali1234> i don't believe it is possible to make the perfect distribution where everything works the way upstream intended
<diddledan> popey: good job you moved the body!
<foobarry> mint is ubuntu + cinnamon innit?
<TwistedLucidity> Mint has flavours
<foobarry> i ran it for a while during the DE wilderness caused by gnome3 and unity
<daftykins> yeah in the early days folk went to it for that desktop, but there's no good reason to now
<foobarry> even in those days i tried ubuntu with cinnamon ppa
<daftykins> they do have their own repos for some things though so it's not truly Ubuntu at the base, like diddledan said
<daftykins> doesn't stop them coming into Ubuntu channels begging for help :)
<m0nkey_> For the IRCCloud users: comic sans
<diddledan> m0nkey_: grr
<daftykins> XD
<Azelphur> just as I was about to buy a shiny AMD Ryzen rig, IOMMU groups are silly on all the boards apparently
<Azelphur> :<
<daftykins> as exciting as it is that AMD no longer suck and trail behind, being an early invester before the motherboard makers undoubtedly iron out a load of bugs would be a pretty unwise move
<diddledan> hmm?
<daftykins> especially for you as a Linux user...
<Azelphur> daftykins: waiting for level1tech to test it out, they are very Linuxy :)
<daftykins> only kernel 4.10 released the other day even got good support added :>
<daftykins> what, the data centre folk?
<diddledan> youtube
<daftykins> oh i'm thinking of level3, heh
<Azelphur> daftykins: youtube channel, ran by a guy called wendel, but he's very good.
<Azelphur> knows his stuff :)
<daftykins> still, you'd get anecdotal evidence about only the boards looked at
<Azelphur> daftykins: yea, but he's in a position to be like "Send review boards kthx" and then he'll be testing IOMMU and PCI passthrough
<Azelphur> so, just waiting for him to go "Yep, this one"
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> ah well, you seem to enjoy purchase risk ;)
<Azelphur> daftykins: I shall have you know that I have purchased multiple expensive hardware devices on the basis of no support.
<Azelphur> I'm persistant :)
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> i just bought a Linksys SPA-3102 that i'm hoping to mess about with the distro FreePBX, hooking up my landline to IP phones via said distro and so on
<daftykins> should be a bit of fun / hair tearing out
<Azelphur> daftykins: I'm gonna start playing with asterisk and such for the first time soon I think
<Azelphur> want to make a smart doorbell from a pi, so have it video calling out
<daftykins> yarr same thing then essentially
<daftykins> also got a Cisco IP phone on the way for the desk
<Azelphur> fun :)
<Azelphur> dunno whether asterisk is over kill, all I really want is the doorbell to be able to ring a bunch of people, and the first one to answer it gets the call
<daftykins> what would they be getting the calls on?
<Azelphur> SIP clients, phones and desktops
<Azelphur> they have to be video devices, so nothing like a cisco phone
<daftykins> so far i haven't even been able to get a softphone connecting to the PBX XD
<daftykins> doesn't help that the little blighter has fail2ban and firewalling as default, so you try to log in too fast and ban yourself...
<Azelphur> ah
<diddledan_> netsplit?
<daftykins> not that i see
<diddledan_> why I clone then?
<daftykins> guess we'll see your other self ping timeout in a moment
<diddledan_> I presume so, yeah
<diddledan> t'were a netsplit
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> tbh you should've known directly from being able to chat but being very lonely :D
<diddledan> I wasn't lonely prior - I just reconnected randomly, so I surmised the server had died
<diddledan> <politics> https://twitter.com/Brexitannia2017/status/837736903575236608
<diddledan> tis funny
<diddledan> the funny bit is when the little girl wins
<foobarry> anyone got a pi zero wifi yet?
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't they be busy playing with their new toy if they had... :-)
<diddledan> lightning?!
<diddledan> wtf??
<zmoylan-pi> you've angered thor diddledan, what did you do?!
<diddledan> I have no idea
<diddledan> I was just sat here minding my own business and then all moo broke loose
<diddledan> someone hasn't heard of semver: https://twitter.com/ag_dubs/status/837767825322348547
<diddledan> so who misses lookout express?
<diddledan> and what about the active desktop from IE4???
<diddledan> I want my widgets!
<daftykins> i've recently been fighting folks away from even Thunderbird since it's such a Tuxawful mess
<diddledan> gmail ftw?
<diddledan> I think we need a new law "anything that can be moved to the web/html-app will be moved to the web"
<diddledan> I shall call it the diddletheorem or diddle's razor
<m0nkey_> How to annoy the diddledan .. comic sans :-D
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> my to-smite list might be gaining a new entry :-p
<daftykins> diddledan: yeah i did move one guy to gmail, then his brother (my main client) teased him about privacy and all that rubbish
<daftykins> and it's like, heh yeah he totally needs to be safe emailing his kids
<diddledan> privacy is not important
<diddledan> who cares if google+gchq know I'm into midgets
<diddledan> as long as they don't tell anyone..
<m0nkey_> I moved away from Gmail
<diddledan> I try others but keep going back
<m0nkey_> fastmail
<diddledan> fastmail, because email needs to be FAST!
<m0nkey_> I'm serious, these  guys are good.
<diddledan> "we deliver your email within 10 seconds of you hitting send. unless we don't, but it is still fast at not getting sent!"
<m0nkey_> I got a 10% off discount if you want it
<diddledan> I'm only trollin :-p
<diddledan> trollin trollin trollin, keep them dawgies movin, rawhide!
<m0nkey_> Don't make me comic sans you again.
<diddledan> grr
<m0nkey_> Anywho.. 10% off Fastmail if anyone is interested.. https://www.fastmail.com/?STKI=16650625
<m0nkey_> Wow, this guy bought a Rolex while he was in the Army for just over $100 USD. It has been appraised at over $65,000 USD .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li0mRLcGbU8&feature=youtu.be
<diddledan> cookies: https://twitter.com/ICSandwichGuy/status/837773368464191489
<marshmn> +1 for FastMail
<daftykins> m0nkey_: crikey
<marshmn> not only for the email, but also for the calendars & contacts syncing etc...
<marshmn> sync nicely with Thunderbird and my phone at least
<daftykins> i'm ok with G Suite (google apps), syncing from my android phone(s) and relying on the web interface
<daftykins> not really fussed by having a client
<marshmn> fair enough
<daftykins> i've got a client in finance who can't have anything hosted outside of the UK though
<daftykins> i went with hosted MS Exchange for him from simplymailsolutions.com - but those guys can be pretty poor at times
<daftykins> oh - on the completely different topic of UK mobile telcos, is anyone with Three in the London and Manchester area and know how the coverage is compared with O2?
<m0nkey_> I switched to FM late last year. Transition wasn't easy and had to get used to a new work flow.  But it's all good now :-)
<daftykins> i'm thinking of switching a client to Three from O2 as they have quite good rates for using your data + call allowances when in the US, Spain, and here in Guernsey
<m0nkey_> I still use Google for calendar and contacts
<daftykins> ah right
<m0nkey_> I plan to deactivate the Gmail in my Google account middle of April.  Everything of mine should be migrated to the new address by then.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-04
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> is anyone here subscribed to lkml?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SuperEngineer> SebthreeBQM10HD: ho
<SuperEngineer> wassup?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> SuperEngineer,  not much, and don't I kno wyou from some whre on irc :D ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or sort of
<SuperEngineer> methinks you probably do... this is not the only channel I inhabit ;-)
<SuperEngineer> maybe from twatter, or from instagran, or some other site perhaps?
<SuperEngineer> [&counting loaded IRC channels... I see 7]
 * SuperEngineer never forgets a mick/name/handle, except when the nick/name/handle looks more like a password than a nick/name/handle
<penguin42> ali1234: I subscribe to lkml
<ali1234> if you email "watch" command to majordomo, does it work?
<ali1234> for me, it just says "no subscriptions found"
<ali1234> but i am subscribed to loads of lists
<penguin42> ali1234: I've not tried - what does a watch command do?
<ali1234> list the lists you are subscribed to
 * penguin42 tries
<penguin42> ali1234: Are you sure you're using your correct 'from' address?
<penguin42> ali1234: I've not got a reply yet
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh no response
<penguin42> ali1234: Ah - just got a response saying 'watch' isn't recognised and if I wanted a list of lists  I have to send the command   lists
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: `perhaps you need "pebble", instead of "watch" command ;-)
<ali1234> penguin42: majordomo@vger.kernel.org?
<penguin42> ali1234: Nod
<ali1234> that is not what i got
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-05
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> Has anybody here got the following scenario happening?
<SuperEngineer> Ubuntu 16.04.02,  Chromium browser, tweetdeck in use for twitter,
<SuperEngineer> As of thid morning, tweetdeck stuck in some sort of login loop
<SuperEngineer> ?
<SuperEngineer> [a/c not hacked as twitter site login fully ok, corebird login fully ok
<knightwise> morning peeps
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon how you doin
<brobostigon> knightwise: not bad, finalising the next D&D gae in two weeks time, and you?
<SuperEngineer> Solved earlier tweetdeck problem.
<SuperEngineer> In case anybody ever gets the same... complete chromium removal, bleachbit, reboot. reinstal [
<SuperEngineer> [the loss of tweetdewck taught me something useful, however.   Tweetdeck is more configurable & therefore more easy on the eyes than corebird id.
<SuperEngineer> *is
<penguin42> hell yeh zz
 * penguin42 runs top   for the heck of it
<Guest30515> can i connect through i2p?
<Guest30515> tyring to install it :'(
<penguin42> ok, so the only question about that update is why a restart ended up with about 6 instances of pidgin
<Guest30515> hmm
<SuperEngineer> perhaps calling pidgon "pigged-in" would explain it.... failing that... 1 instance per a/c connected via it?
<penguin42> it only did it onto this boot into zz - so not sure why that changed
<SuperEngineer> effing work laptop! - everytime I start it, it wants to force me into into another Adobe Shockwave update!
<SuperEngineer> I have warned the firm re Shockwave, but to no avail.
<SuperEngineer> [it runs Windows btw]
<diddledan> norks is playing with matches again: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39175704
<daftykins> silly billys!
 * zmoylan-pi is unpacking a micro:bit...
<ali1234> what made you want to get one?
<zmoylan-pi> i have a few ideas i want to try out with it and they're so so cheap
<ali1234> pi zero w is cheaper tho
<zmoylan-pi> and if i ever see one around dublin i'll buy it... till then...
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-26
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<diplo> 1
<zmoylan-pi> 2
<SuperEngineer> 2 1/2
<diplo> 3
<diplo> Couldn't get focus on screen :)
<zmoylan-pi> makes it way harder to count the pixels that way... :-)
<diplo> heheh
<Azelphur> Random question, does anyone know of a gadget I can use to print QR code labels? I've tried label printer in my laser printer, but it's really hard to get them lined up right.
<zmoylan-pi> i think they can be printed on any printer... it really comes down to cost of printer and consumables...
<diplo> yeah, we've used proper Zebra label printers for work, but I've also printed one on my HP here and it works with my phone
<diplo> I'd go with quality of print is part of the issue, try from a PDF on screen and same after printing
<zmoylan-pi> perhaps a laser printer with a better single page feed?
<zmoylan-pi> then sorting the templates for whatever app you're printing from
<daftykins> Azelphur: why not a Dymo?
<Azelphur> daftykins: could do
<zmoylan-pi> last time i had access to a printer specifically for labels from a computer was mid 90s... an avery label printer iirc...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i've been amused recently when clients on Windows 10 have gone to print a normal page - and because 10 tries to be clever in 'managing' your default printer, they've been presented by the cutest little diddy 1" high rendition of their document
<diddledan> haha
<zmoylan-pi> postage stamp mode: saves on paper and postage... :-P
<daftykins> it does!
<diddledan> postage stamp mode even prints your postage stamp!
<daftykins> something i got from ebay the other day had a printed one, it just said "Only to be used once" and wasn't crossed through or anything after delivery
<daftykins> so surely that could be done once, posted back to the sender and then used over and over
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-27
<zmoylan-pi> put it under a uv lamp, might be marked
<daftykins> now there's an idea
<zmoylan-pi> i use the black light i got with a kids happy meal :-P
<daftykins> i bet the kid still scowls when you see him or her about town ;)
<daftykins> believe it or not, the last tube o' lube i got for my push-bikes came with one (i think) that lets you see where it is after spreading it on your chain
<zmoylan-pi> i order happy mealsas they are smaller
<daftykins> hmm i had no idea, being as we don't have mcdonalds
<zmoylan-pi> i think this was burger kings...
<daftykins> oh, don't have them either ;D
<zmoylan-pi> what sort of barren wasteland do you live in? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> after shopping you get the kids a happy meal by killing a goat with a rock? :-P
 * daftykins whistles
<daftykins> a whole goat? cor, they'd be lucky
<daftykins> nay, we turn over said rock and they get the spoils that lie beneath, if any
<daftykins> the Eearthworm Jim jokes are horrendous
<daftykins> -e
<layke>  /msg nickserv identify andromada
<layke>  /msg nickserv identify keilko
<layke>  /msg nickserv identify andromada
<diplo> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> hey hey
<brobostigon> hey
<foobarry> there's a guy here wearing shorts :|
<Nafallo> -14Â° and 9m/s wind where I am...
<Nafallo> not happy :-P
<diplo> I won't complain about -6 this morning then :P
<zmoylan-pi> europe temp chart... http://images.meteociel.fr/im/8481/temp_eur2_crn3.png
<diddledan> oh god, I hope we don't get that purple weather!
<diddledan> purple weather is the worst!
<zmoylan-pi> don't catch the wrong bus and end up in wrong end of siberia then...
<zmoylan-pi> you'll end up in a bear suit dancing for coins trying to earn your fare home.... again... :-P
<daftykins> even the rocks have snow today :)
<m0nkey_> Couple inches of snow and the whole of the UK goes nuts. :P
<daftykins> can't think why (:
<diddledan> anyone want a computer? https://twitter.com/benjedwards/status/968240996759883777
<daftykins> sheesh
<diddledan> well with the amount of snow we had in the air earlier, I don't see any having settled anyplace
<diddledan> s/I don't/I suprisingly don't/
 * daftykins has another glance outside
<daftykins> a lot of ours has melted, though i still see some on the scaffold i still have out the back, on the hedges and grass too in the courtyard behind
<daftykins> i.e. here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLHcp1Wvhwc
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-28
<MooDoo> howdy all
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> How are things MooDoo ?
<diplo> Don't see you so much now adays
<SuperMatt> morning everybody
<MooDoo> morning
<SuperMatt> I have throughly enjoyed walking through the crisp snow this morning
<SuperMatt> I can only hope that some of it remains so that I may build a snowman tomorrow
<diplo> We only had a sprinkling unfortunately
<SuperMatt> shame
<MooDoo> cm or so here, but it's still snowing so might have more depending on how it settles this mornig
<SuperMatt> got about 2cm last night, but no more snow today it seems
<diplo> Ours is due tomorrow
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<SuperMatt> travelling home was a good idea
<zmoylan-pi> snow joke out there....
<diddledan> jessica jones season 2 on march 8th!!! (netflix)
<zmoylan-pi> mash season 1 on zmoylan-pi's media player... :-)
<diddledan> bah
<diddledan> jew sucks
<diddledan> https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/27/the-moons-getting-a-mobile-data-network/
<zmoylan-pi> all those reporposed nokia 3310s won't need any protection from the moon.... :-P
<bring-bring> AT-AT's about. Support your local jedi. https://twitter.com/StevieGrainger/status/968639441492299777
<foobarry> thats well old
<foobarry> but still good
<zmoylan-pi> we'll just have to send wave after wave of vespa scooter armed with piano wire...
<daftykins> sheesh -8 with wind chill
<zmoylan-pi> -2c here before you try and calcualte the wind chill... 1st day of march tomorrow
<zmoylan-pi> went for a walk to local shops in the snow... streets are deserted, a few cars about... some tosser in shorts in one supermarket.  you should have seen how fast they were moving to their car over ice and snow... :-)
<daftykins> xD
<zmoylan-pi> i'd normally be out for 12k paces... about 3 hours. 2 hours got me 6k slowly in slippery walk...
<zmoylan-pi> very very cold...
<zmoylan-pi> and worse on the way according to forecasts...
<daftykins> that's odd, we're back up in temps to +5 by tomorrow
<zmoylan-pi> on plus side, irish shops have stopped running out of bread... you can now find a few loaves for sale in most shops, but almost no selection
<daftykins> i heard someone say our local Marks and Spencers franchise closed due to no stock coming in by boat, today
<zmoylan-pi> still, not as bad as taiwan were rumours of a price rise have caused panic buying... of bogroll...
<daftykins> when you've gotta go...
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43195467
<zmoylan-pi> probably some shadowy underground mass movement involved... :-P
<halt> Evening ! I'm using a small tool which offer to generate autocomplete config for my bash but there where to is not preset, so my question is simple with a default terminal ( bash ) which files / folders are parsed for autocomplete ?
<daftykins> for binaries? anything in your PATH i think
<halt> not bin but the command itself inside the subcommands help etc
<zmoylan-pi> isn't the .bashrc file stored in the home/user directory?
<halt> ( btw it's restic a backup tool ) and it has things like restic backup, restic list etc
<daftykins> 'command itself inside the subcommands' - sorry that doesn't make any sense to me
<halt> the command is `restic` so after typeing `rest<TAB>` based on the PATH a binary for restic is picked up, but after that the help of the restic application should be the next to know that I can run `restic list` based on `restic l` or `restic backup` if I type `restic b<TAB>` or more like `rest<TAB>b<TAB>`
<halt> is that make more sense ?
<halt> never mind the answer is `/etc/bash_completion.d/` found it and works fine, Thanks anyway
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-01
<zmoylan-pi> spring is here... ::battens hatches for storm emma::
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> basically red weather warning telling people to stay indoors from 4pm for 24hours
<daftykins> something bigger is coming?
<zmoylan-pi> cold weather front sitting on ireland straight from north pole. storm emma heading up from portugal. when they meet it'll be moider... ::cue hart to hart theme tune::
<daftykins> :D my Dad always used to use that line, not that i knew the source
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNaLVStHXpk
<daftykins> such perm!
<zmoylan-pi> twas the 70-80s...
<zmoylan-pi> even with weather warnings some muppets will go to work tomorrow and then wonder who dumped a tonne of snow on them with high winds for fun plus freezing temps
<daftykins> my heating is struggling to get to 17 deg C even with the outdoors only at 0 ish
<zmoylan-pi> and emergency services will have to rescue some of them
<zmoylan-pi> mine got main room up to 9c from -5c. i have a nice fleece house coat that keeps you toasty warm...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> enjoying the weather?
 * brobostigon wonders if zmoylan-pi has a sense of humour.
<zmoylan-pi> knock knock
<brobostigon> thermal underwear who?
 * zmoylan-pi returns from looted shops pre storm emma hitting...
<SuperEngineer> that makes it sound like you did the looting zmoylan-pi
<foobarry> which storm , where?
<zmoylan-pi> no no, people paid for their looting, quite civilised... but you don't want to be a bread delivery person... https://twitter.com/11SchillRob/status/968891974509121536
<SuperEngineer> foobarry, Storm Emma, a.k.a. a snow flake touched a track so we're stopping all trains
<foobarry> what country is that?
<zmoylan-pi> ireland has a storm that hit portugal a few days ago heading north were it's going to collide over ireland with a ice weather pattern that arrived from siberia.  expecting high winds and more snow... code red stay indoors weather
<SuperEngineer> the U.K a.k.a a little island just off the EU
<foobarry> whats this bread shortage?
<zmoylan-pi> ireland, a slightly less damp part of the atlantic
<foobarry> this looks fake
<zmoylan-pi> tis real. every shop i'be been to 3-4 per day for last 3 days has no bread or only 2-3 loaves left
 * SuperEngineer puts smug smile on face and cuddles his fresh loaf
<SuperEngineer> [I looted early]
<zmoylan-pi> weirdo... :-P
<SuperEngineer> weirdo with bread  :-p
<zmoylan-pi> i too may have scored a loaf but am not advertising the fact for security reasons...
<zmoylan-pi> but i did get stroopwafel to go with my coffee....
<SuperEngineer> :-)
<diddledan> mmm, covfefe
<diddledan> bread is for lightweights. you want the hard stuff. toast.
<diddledan> I might brave the weather to seek-out some chocolate
<zmoylan-pi> just over an hour before e-hour... ireland is shutting from 4pm for 24 hours due to weather...
<SuperEngineer> Well, I've now phoned 15 shops asking if they sold a loaf of toast.  Got some very nasty replies.
<zmoylan-pi> burn!!!!! :-P
<zmoylan-pi> ....which is my recipie for toast...
<SuperEngineer> :-)
<SuperEngineer> There will be people here who going to say "damn the snow, I'm still  going to pub tonight!.  Good on you for your defiance...but PLEASE take something extra warm  with you.  On your way to or from that pub you may well see someone sleeping in shop doorway or similar.. They are not sure if they will be alive tommorrow - give them that extra warm stuff or phone for help if they are obviously in distress.
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, in ireland it's a stay indoors you muppet, don't make it so the rescue services have to endanger themselves to get to you... the find the homeless and get them into a shelter was yesterday and this morning...
<Azelphur> To add to that, you should also contact Streetlink who will send someone out to try and get them into a warm bed for the night, You can find them via their website ( https://streetlink.force.com/ ) or use their iphone/android app.
<daftykins> no idea if we have any homeless, never see any like in England
<Azelphur> We have quite a lot here in Thanet, one of my friends is the manager at thanet winter shelter, and my gf volunteers there
<zmoylan-pi> they're there, just more invisible most likely... with a rural area there's always a barn/shed you can kip in...
<daftykins> *nod*
<zmoylan-pi> here it's you have to step over some of the poor sods sleeping in the doorways of someplaces they sleep for warmth
<SuperEngineer> https://streetlink.force.com/
<Azelphur> In other news, I have deluge running on a VM, the storage for deluge is an NFS share, occasionally my torrents are failing with "Device or resource busy" - anyone got any ideas on that one?
<zmoylan-pi> we could use https://gizmodo.com/5332274/in-russia-snowblowers-use-mig-15-jets/ today :-)
<daftykins> i would not separate an IO intensive task like that
<Azelphur> daftykins: I'm game for suggestions
<daftykins> haven't got any if you're married to running it in a VM
<daftykins> i'm not familiar with the client though
<Azelphur> daftykins: yea, it's a good idea to run it in a VM, for isolation and stuff
<daftykins> well i don't know your full setup to know how that fits in with everything else
<daftykins> clearly networked storage is the problem though
<Azelphur> Host is a machine with a big raid array (ext4, raid6 mdadm) mounted at /storage
<Azelphur> guest is a kvm vm, running deluge, and has /storage/Torrents mounted over NFS
<daftykins> hmm bad virtual networking maybe o0
<daftykins> amusingly my file server's host OS runs the client and VMs run other stuff
<Azelphur> I did have a lot of issues with SMB, which is why I switched over (horrible performance, guest seemed to hardlock at random)
<daftykins> yeah not surprised
<daftykins> must've had a pegged core solely for that during downloads or seeds
<daftykins> i don't use that virt tech, but i know with others you can attach physical disks to run directly - personally i run my client atop separate download disks and then only copy to storage after completion, prevents fragmentation that way
<daftykins> also reduces power use as the whole array doesn't need to be doing I/O to seed or download
<Azelphur> yea, none of that is ideal, I dunno why NFS would fall over, especially when it's entirely local, should work.
<daftykins> but it's not really local is it :) it's abstracted
<Azelphur> suppose
<daftykins> i thought you were mr. money bags with all the HDDs :D what's wrong about the above?
<Azelphur> I have a lot of other things that all need access to the torrents output directory, so it'd end up being very convolute.
<daftykins> sounds to me like it'd just move the NFS mount to being for them rather than for the client
<daftykins> i bet you're gonna say this is all on your main desktop too xD
<Azelphur> nope lol
<daftykins> phew ;)
<Azelphur> Found that archlinux seems to recommend you set soft as a mount option, seems like hard might be more appropriate, going to try with that.
<daftykins> mmm, messing around with debugging it is gonna be the only alternative to designing it better
<Azelphur> yea, there aren't really any better design options either imo, either I take deluge out of the vm (leaving me vulnerable) or I leave it in the VM And try to get some networked filesystem to work
<daftykins> but i just described it, giving it DAS would take away the issues
<Azelphur> daftykins: I answered that, DAS doesn't work in cases where multiple VMs need access to the same storage area
<daftykins> well you didn't really give much detail as to how it wasn't a fit, i don't know what tasks they are for what kind of access is required
<daftykins> as you didn't reply to why the NFS mounts couldn't be on that side
<Azelphur> yea, basically there's a pile of VMs that need access to the torrents completed folder.
<daftykins> why do them mounting via NFS not work, then?
<Azelphur> isn't that what I'm already doing?
<daftykins> no your torrent client is doing I/O with a NFS share, right
<daftykins> so by moving that VM to be on a physical disk without a network protocol...
<Azelphur> ah, I see, so deluge vm gets hard access, and nothing else does
<Azelphur> It could potentially work, until I want to do intensive IO with something else :). My first port of call is certainly to figure out why NFS is unhappy - it shouldn't be
<daftykins> *nod* 'cause the others would be less frequent
<Azelphur> I'd be game for slow, but not randomly broken, something must be wrong somewhere.
<daftykins> i mean it could be down to cacheing values in the client too, assuming you're seeing it during downloads
<Azelphur> yea, I'm seeing it during downloads
<Azelphur> I've fired up deluge in debug mode now, watching the log, so maybe I'll get some tracebacks or more useful information :)
<daftykins> if it's anything like the clients i've used, it should have disk cacheing and writeout timing options etc
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-02
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> It's friday, and that means you ought to be slacking
<brobostigon> morning
<brobostigon> and no friday afterwork pub visit either considering the weather.
<SuperMatt> I don't know why one precludes t'other
<brobostigon> good point.
<zmoylan-pi> because walking home tipsy or drunk in this weather is how to earn a darwin award?
<SuperMatt> Well, there is that
<zmoylan-pi> fix your connection daftykins
<Nafallo> there's a darwin award?!
<zmoylan-pi> amuse yourself and have a read of people who made the gene pool a little deeper by removing themselves from it...
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.darwinawards.com/
<zmoylan-pi> there was even a movie that used some of the funnier stories to make a larger one...
<brobostigon> https://www.findapprenticeship.service.gov.uk/apprenticeship/-226180 i think the wage there is too good to be true, or a genuine mistake.
<zmoylan-pi> that's probably the secret rate for governments idiot off spring...
<brobostigon> lol.
<Nafallo> going home from a pub in your mild weather wouldn't do that, zmoylan-pi ;-)
<diddledan> "Bionic is now in Feature Freeze."
<foobarry> sourceforge not holding up by DDOS as well as github
<zmoylan-pi> looks like everyone is out playing in the snow...
 * brobostigon isnt.
<zmoylan-pi> no, it's true, i saw loads of folk pulling sleds out there...
<brobostigon> as i have i seen similar pictures.
<brobostigon> as have i*
<zmoylan-pi> i went out for my daily walk in it... only half my daily walk mind as 1) it's freezing 2) there are eejits driving out there who should be allowed anything more powerful than a rc car 3) snow making some places very hard to get to
<brobostigon> shouldnt be allowed?
<zmoylan-pi> *shouldn't
<zmoylan-pi> thank
<zmoylan-pi> thanks
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> hands are still numb
<brobostigon> i can imagine.
<Azelphur> I been out playing pokemon go, enjoying it myself, it's really pretty down here in Margate
 * zmoylan-pi counts the amount of stroopwafels i have left...
<zmoylan-pi> hurray... the outside temp has gone up... to 0c :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> my heating is bubbered
<diddledan> it's 17C in here right now
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-03
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> plans for today, go for longer walk and see if more than one shop is open... :-)
<brobostigon> good plan, i was planning to put my boots on and get out of the house as well.
<NET||abuse> hey guys, i'm trying to figure out how to use gnome notes between 2 laptops, current primiary source is ubuntu 17.10
<NET||abuse> i have both notes  and todo, i want to sync over to a gnome 3.26 on arch for my off days :)
<NET||abuse> but i can't find a setting that explains how to do it.
<NET||abuse> damn, just found joplin.. .this sounds crazy effective.
<n87_> hello there
<n87_> i have a question regarding ubuntu-server running on the rpi2
<n87_> the official image ist set to use the uboot bootloader during startup
<n87_> ist there a way to boot the kernel directly
<n87_> as it is suggested for the rpi3?
<n87_> I've tried to set kernel=vmlinuz initramfs initrd.img followkernel in config.txt
<n87_> but that won't work
<n87_> any ideas how to make that work?
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-04
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> heating is off, i've had a peek outside and most of the now outside seem gone. bare ground in lots of places...
<brobostigon> now? has now been aborbed into a blackhole or something outside your window? lol.
<brobostigon> absorbed*
<zmoylan-pi> ireland as an low island with high rain falls has very good drainage... there will be flooding not where i am...
<brobostigon> here neither.
<daftykins> yay for it not raining today, so my 60/10 connection is stable at 10/3
<daftykins> oh yeah can't remember if i came in to say, the weather has ruined my phone line
<penguin42> was it 60/10 before?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> i think the snow sat on the connection box and then melted and rolled into it
<penguin42> it might resync itself back up as it dries out?
<daftykins> nah it's screwed, huge noise on the line
<penguin42> oh that's much better; if the audio is bad you can tell them to come and fix it
<daftykins> they're meant to be replacing it since it's war time age, the properties either side of me still have the ol' lead cables leading up to it
<penguin42> lead cables?!
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> war time!
<daftykins> mines normal though
 * penguin42 has heard of lead piping, but not lead cables
<daftykins> yeah i did that but i'm in a big queue for all the ones that the weather ruined
 * penguin42 wonders if you go mad faster by watching stuff downloaded over lead cables
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> basically the box has been swinging on the wall in front since we got it detached from my house and i painted the front, but the lad that was meant to arrange the ground being dug up for the lines to be replaced swanned off on holiday it would appear
<daftykins> it's only staying stable today since it's not wet, heh
<penguin42> perhaps you should wrap a scarf around it?
<daftykins> hehe, i don't own a ladder - it's at first floor level and my lane has a steep gradient so you couldn't use one without some kinda block under one leg
<daftykins> i'd have gone up there, whipped the cover off, cleaned up my pair and wrapped a plastic bag around it otherwise
<daftykins> i've got a few of the grease taps they use to join pairs together
<penguin42> sounds like you need someone with a landrover that you can stand on....
<daftykins> pedestrian only lane :)
<penguin42> horse?
<daftykins> can't stand 'em!
<penguin42> can't say I've had enough contact with them to know
<daftykins> apparently they're common and cheap to keep up there, but they're costly on the islands
<zmoylan-pi> home made stilts...
 * penguin42 wonders what you'll have to do to get BT etc to get to it if it's in such an inaccessible place; you can imagine it having to be a BT awkward-places team
<daftykins> we don't have BT here :)
<zmoylan-pi> a guy on a bike with a ladder... does windows in his spare time...
<penguin42> daftykins: Fortunate
<daftykins> they were pretty cool when i wanted to paint the house, came out same-day and took the box off the front and lashed it to the scaffold
<daftykins> it's possible they might tell me to just deal with it and wait for the proper road dig up
<penguin42> hair-dryer on a long poll
<daftykins> i did lean out the nearest window when i got up today to see if i could reach it xD not a chance
<zmoylan-pi> i can smell darwain awards nomination... :-P
<daftykins> naaah i know when i'm beaten
<zmoylan-pi> it's not over till you're wrapped in 20ft of coax face down in a water butt... :-P
<penguin42> nah, coax is no good to get tangled in
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think... :-)
<daftykins> https://i.imgur.com/a4BGATo.jpg this is it btw
<penguin42> daftykins: Oh well....
<penguin42> daftykins: You've obviously missed the trick of laying a ladder across from the neighbours
<zmoylan-pi> it could have an accident so they have to replace it...
<daftykins> it'd be one long ladder :D
<daftykins> oh they're doing it anyway yeah, just they're not being too quick on making the arrangements
<zmoylan-pi> put those hacking classes to good use and build a suspension bridge from ice lolly sticks across the gap... :-)
<daftykins> allegedly all this bit does is join up with runs in the road, below - so they'll only replace the 3 metres up the wall
<penguin42> scary bits of wires and knots :-)
<daftykins> can see all the neighbours lines look rubbish since we removed all the fixings from the front of my place to do the painting, though
<daftykins> the scaffolders had nothing so i had to give them a bit of cat6 UTP to tether the box to the front of my place off a gutter bracket
<penguin42> cat6! The luxury!
<penguin42> I guess, your cats do get the cream
<daftykins> :o
<daftykins> ugh these products that are amazon prime members only
<daftykins> even a keyboard o0
<zleap> you need to be careful with amazon you end up on prime without realising it , i did once, noticed and cancled straight away
<daftykins> ah just buying some stuff for a client, looks like i can share his wifes prime membership with him so these items can be had :D
<zleap> :)
<daftykins> yep, that was easy
<zmoylan-pi> ...too easy... ::cue ominous music::
<daftykins> i'll be nipping to London for their new flat soon, to go and set things up
<daftykins> means i have to ship these things to there and not be a tax dodger for once!
<zmoylan-pi> apple to release a $999 mac air this year... at that price it'll problably have 0 usb ports... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> here's a lad to fix your external broadband box... :-) https://imgur.com/gallery/wA165
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-24
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<Chunkyz> Nou.
<Chunkyz> We ready for the new Ubuntu yet?
 * Laney has the bunting and special new pants
<daftykins> o09
<daftykins> -9
<daftykins> cor la, local ISP has uncapped the speeds on a client's 5G test device now
<daftykins> 270Mb download
<daftykins> saw 28MB/sec snagging an ubuntu ISO
<penguin42> nice, how much do you pay for that?
<daftykins> he's on a free trial right now, so nothing
<penguin42> it's something I'm keeping my eye on, cable is getting expensive, starting to be flaky and it's upload bandwidth is poor
<daftykins> mmm always was a big weakness, saw that when researching Virgin Media for the same client's London pad
<daftykins> the trial appears to be using 4G for upload right now, so i only saw 20Mb up
<penguin42> BT are starting to roll out real fibre - and it's stopping a few 100 metres down the road on this roll out
<daftykins> to properties or just to street cabinets? a friend in Exeter seemed to be able to get the new G.fast VDSL services at his address
<penguin42> to properties
<daftykins> hmm funky
<penguin42> G.300 is available to a lot of cabs here - but not ours :-(
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> there we go, Zen.co.uk offers him 300/45 Mb for Â£60/mo
<daftykins> that'd be lovely
<penguin42> I'm paying just over Â£40 for 100/6 on  VM; I don't need any more, I'd like it to be less flaky though
<penguin42> and it seems a lot for that now
<daftykins> do you find it matches the student terms at all? :D improving when they're gone
<penguin42> no I don't think so; I'm on the other side of the city from the universities
<daftykins> ah i suppose it's big enough they get diluted out amongst the area
 * penguin42 should measure his usage to see how the 5G plans would work out - I see one or two of the providers listing us as covered
<daftykins> the only thing is he's only getting good service because his property has line of sight to the main town tower - and maybe 150m as the crow flies tops from it
<daftykins> it's still insanely variable depending on weather, so i'd stick to fixed line services for consistency
<daftykins> although he can only get 40/5 Mb there due to his bad line
<penguin42> DSL here is only about 10/1
<daftykins> wow that must be some serious line length
<penguin42> and they can't be bothered - there's not enough people on this cab for them to upgrade it to VDSL
<daftykins> mmm, i imagine that's often the case with cable areas
<daftykins> where i had that house in Portsmouth, the overhead pole based phone lines looked like they'd be pretty terrible
<penguin42> nod, but also one side of our street is a park, so the problem is there aren't as many houses on the road
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> just for curiosity's sake, what do you get offered from Zen's postcode checker? https://www.zen.co.uk/
<penguin42> daftykins: 3.5-7.5Mbps
<daftykins> ouch!
<penguin42> I'm pretty sure Zen are in our exchange as well; the problem is since our streetbox is a dumb bundle of wires ~1km away there's not much to do
<daftykins> yeah, that's a shame
<daftykins> i'm on a 500m pair that runs direct to the exchange, so the 60/10 i'm on now is the best i'll see
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> and lets face it that's pretty much fine - unless you're doing serious video stuff
<daftykins> double the upload would be nice for my home Nextcloud instance, but yeah it does the job :D
<penguin42> I mean a apt get completes in no time at 60
<daftykins> could certainly be a lot worse, like my rural US friend on satellite with his 10GB/month data cap
<penguin42> oh, that's unusual for the US; you find bits of the US with cable broadband with no running water
<daftykins> hehe yeah, he reckons he's just seen fiber laid to the roadside up on the main drag, but he's a few hundred metres down a kinda more private farm track, as he's renting on a farmer's land
<zxmoypi> i believe what you do if a cabinet doesn't receive the latest broadband is pay a few rowdy teenagers to nick a jcb and obliterate it and when it's replaced it gets all new shiny gear :-P
<daftykins> xD
<penguin42> zxmoypi: The problem is it's at the end of the road, not nicely spaced along the road
<daftykins> someone drove into a friends cab actually, engineers had to run it from batteries for a while whilst they repaired its' supply... he had 2 outages a day as the batteries were swapped over
<penguin42> haha
<zxmoypi> needed a bigger vehicle to hit it... :-P
<zxmoypi> better luck next time
<penguin42> hmm, so has BBC Freeview red button actually stopped working - it was supposed to at the end of Jan but then after protects they stopped that - but it seems to have happened
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-25
<brobostigon> morning
<daftykins> morn \o
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<daftykins> i have a meeting with the boss man at the small business i have been checking out recently, the one with the worst security i've ever seen and an entire office of EOL products on an EOL server
<MattJ> \o/
<daftykins> he might be a dangerous client as he seems to be the reason for why everything is so bad there, i don't think he believes in updates and thinks IT people do it to justify their jobs
<daftykins> they run in-house email on MS Exchange, next month when the next Firefox and possibly Chrome releases are out, TLS v1.0 is being disabled by default, which their outlook web access relies on :D
<zxmoypi> yeah, sounds like they'll be a bugger to get paid from
<daftykins> well i got paid for what i did already :D justifying work to perform necessary updates, however...
<daftykins> i think i'll discuss the process only in general terms so as not to give any answers away ;)
<zxmoypi> it tech level 2:switch it off and throw it out :-P
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> nah, tonnes of services to migrate off to start
<daftykins> makes me laugh so much that someone installed the backup software for backing up their server VM... inside the VM
<daftykins> just... so many levels of failure
<zxmoypi> i always put the backup not on the server. that way if server was destroyed you could turn the backup computer into a temp server at a pinch
<zxmoypi> what could possibly happen to a server they'd say... under 2 foot of water, had a wall collapse on it, lightning strike...
<daftykins> he told me the other day that he has an exact duplicate of the Â£4k HP server at home... made me wonder why he asked for new disks instead of grabbing one from that when the RAID was degraded and they were in danger
<zxmoypi> but then he wouldn't have a backup
<daftykins> but you could be safer waiting to a replace a disk that isn't live... and it isn't one - as the server is a VM atop the host the actual system doesn't even matter
<daftykins> penguin42: morn
<Chunkyz> Lmao
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-26
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
 * daftykins chuckles
<daftykins> so, small biz manager agreed to my plans, but he called today to say their flawed backup caused their server to seize up at 2pm today
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-27
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<daftykins> \o/
<brobostigon> \o/
<daftykins> my my, bad weather has stopped my HelloFRESH food box from making it this morning once again
<daftykins> i can see the boat though! just south of the Isle of Wight right now ^_^
<zxmoypi> yes i used to love how in stormy weather the ferries couldn't dock. i remember one storm in 90s it was like 10 days at sea. passengers were stuck till it made shore
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-28
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<knightwise> hey zxmoypi
<knightwise> how are you man :)
<brobostigon> \o
<brobostigon> tired, lots of long working days in a row, and you?
<brobostigon> not back in now until tuesday, yay.
<knightwise> had a rough week too, Everyday out the door at 6 and clients in house untill 9pm
<brobostigon> :(
<knightwise> not complaining ,its good business, just looooong days
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> + a very very long todoo list :)
<brobostigon> same here, :(
<knightwise> Interesting stuff though , so i'm not complaining. just a "lot" at once
<brobostigon> prioritising, the wife has a rather lengthly list of things for me to tackle over the weekend.
<knightwise> ha :)
<brobostigon> one is, "buy (insert my daughters name) a new pram."
<brobostigon> another one is "fix so i can control the tv again", i think she means our google home.
<zxmoypi> you're now looking for the geekiest pram, aren't you :-)
<zxmoypi> the one that has a rasp pi embedded for running linux :-D
<knightwise> hahaa :)
<knightwise> i bought a new nvidia shield this week
<brobostigon> yep, :D
<knightwise> took a little while to set it up right
<brobostigon> :(
<knightwise> the plex server / client on it is far from stable
<knightwise> so i installed kodi on it and stored the files on my NAS
<brobostigon> i experience similar issues when i try and playback local files to my chromecast.
<zxmoypi> could it be the size of the files being wirelessly transferred to the device? contention on the network?
<brobostigon> or a combination of both, yes.
<brobostigon> from my tests, the latter seems a bigger issue.
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-29
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<Chunkyz> Evening.
<Chunkyz> No....
<Chunkyz> K.
<penguin42> Yes, Evening
<zmoylan-pi> nearly 2130 here... dark and stormy night. status orange wind
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> i've been doing maintenance on that new client's server since 1:20pm :) although it's mostly lengthy I/O tasks so i've not really been working that long
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: The worst wind went through about 7pm
<daftykins> i discovered they were running their VM's from daisy-chained failed snapshots created by the backup program, so tracking all those delta files is what had murdered the I/O performance
<penguin42> ouch
<zmoylan-pi> fun
<daftykins> i came up with the cunning plan of uploading a clonezilla image, booting that in the VM and backing up only the live dataset to a NAS they have on-site :D
<zmoylan-pi> west coast got status red. will have to see if that part of the island is still there tomorrow
<daftykins> that saved me having to transfer each delta image at a full total of 850GB ish instead of only a 150GB backup (compressed probably) as clonezilla spat out
<zmoylan-pi> you didn't bring a 1tb floppy disk?! :-P
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> great fun formatting that in windows :-P
<daftykins> i deleted one snapshot as a test first, took 2 hours to consolidate that - now i'm deleting the rest and it's at 78%
<daftykins> once complete i'll boot with the network disconnected so the mailserver doesn't go online - and run a defrag on both virtual disks :)
<zmoylan-pi> i was once handed a pc with vital data and 0 bytes free... took about 2 hours to delete 1mb of uneccessary files so it could boot :-)
<daftykins> erk!
<zmoylan-pi> windows is tetchy that way :-)
<daftykins> did you ever that phenomenon that everyone comes out of the woodwork all at once for things they want done, just as you're already busy?
<daftykins> +encounter
<zmoylan-pi> simple rule. before i go onsite i have an email of what i am doing that day. i let the nice staff know i'm coming and to have anything that might need a look at to look at while i'm waiting for computer to complete tasks
<daftykins> a friends biz found an edge case a bit ago where they managed to get nextcloud to fill their VPS's /, apache wouldn't permit website logins until some space was cleared
<daftykins> ah in my case i mean other clients wake up and get in touch :D
<zmoylan-pi> ah, very different
<daftykins> woohoo we just jumped to completion
<daftykins> wouldn't it be nice if this VM still booted now...
<penguin42>  <drum roll>
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> few things to prod first
 * zmoylan-pi places bet yes... eventually...
<penguin42> boot on a leapyear hmmmm
<daftykins> what's the worst that could...
<zmoylan-pi> never say that, never think that, never type that. it's asking the gods of mocking to smite some small irreplaceable part that you can't replace easily on a saturday evening
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> i once spent 6 hours replacing a floppy drive. every part, every cable, every thing that could wrong went wrong. it was hilariously funny.... afterwards
<daftykins> as an anecdote a few pints into an evening ;)
<zmoylan-pi> here's a pc moylan before you go can you replace the dead floppy drive. no prob. 2 minute job..... famous last words...
<zmoylan-pi> not helped by it been a cursed ast slimline pc that required super slim floppy drive and a 'left hand' drive cable that worked only with that make and model...
<daftykins> we'll just ignore the bit where i tried to RDP into it and wondered why it wasn't working, given i'd disconnected the virtual NIC, shall we, gang? :D
 * daftykins coughs
<zmoylan-pi> never happened.... been there... done that....
<zmoylan-pi> i once had my finger hovering over the enter key to delete files on hard disk that i needed to expand but didn't have the space for :-)
<zmoylan-pi> just wiggle the blue wire.... https://i.imgur.com/2OjXQAJ.jpg
<daftykins> heh got linked that recently too :D
<daftykins> hmm it wasn't a happy bunny booted with no NIC, poked around in safe mode and making it chkdsk now
<daftykins> how i wish it was on SSD...
<penguin42> daftykins: So I'm not sure which VM system you're using or how your multiple layers of storage work; but one way to flatten a complex thing is just to boot the VM and dd out the disk image
<daftykins> yeah, in fact because the files themselves were huge and i knew it'd be a wasted job if i had turned up and copied them over the network, which was the original plan, i instead shutdown the VM and booted a clonezilla ISO to dump only the 'real' volumes to a network share :)
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> it's a long EOL VMware ESXi box these folks have, much like everything else on their network xD
<daftykins> some numpty installed a backup product inside the VM itself and told it to back itself up to network shares, when it has been failing it kept creating a snapshot, leaving the mess as it was
<daftykins> i was partly deciding between hosing them entirely and just restoring the imaged backup so that it would be sequentially written and probably sat better on the RAID volume, but in the end i just tried the snapshot deletion
<daftykins> just running the OS level defrag now on the two virtual disks, should be hugely improved :D
<penguin42> nod; it's pretty amazing how old some critical stuff running is - even in big companies
<daftykins> these folks haven't paid anyone for maintenance at all, it's shocking
<daftykins> physical server has firmware from 2012, the HP iLO 4 has had 2 critical security updates between the version that's on here and the newest
<daftykins> (that's the management NIC firmware)
#ubuntu-uk 2020-03-01
<penguin42> oh, firmware upgrades; that doesn't surprise me at all - people are bad enough using old applications and OSs
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> so now we're only left with all the services with errors that the boss has no idea have not been working!
<penguin42> daftykins: I did go to a talk once by people doing a cross-continent data centre move where they had to basically replicate it at the new site and then cut over;  the hard job was figuring out wth was actually in the exisitng one
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that's been me, blind going in - slowly unpicking things
<daftykins> though i don't actually admin Windows domains typically, which is why i'm steering these folks off one :D
<daftykins> well, unsurprisingly it really flies now
<daftykins> just got a defrag of C: to finish and it'll be about as good as it'll get on the current RAID :)
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<Gargoyle> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> well i am feeling pretty smug after that, check out these metrics for that server - https://i.imgur.com/cbUnq4v.png
<penguin42> heck, that write is much better!
<daftykins> i was getting this prompt on first login (to Windows Server) about some maintenance task that needed to be run, too - so i did that and now the system no longer consumes all its' RAM for the MS Exchange process after boot
<daftykins> it's so much more responsive, a browser comes up in 4 seconds instead of several minutes when i first visited them
<daftykins> so this all began with "our backups keep running slower and slower after an office move", their old IT firm kept just blaming the server's age and saying well, it's all going EOL so you just need to replace it
<daftykins> which is true, but wasn't even remotely true
<daftykins> er, swap the second 'true' for 'relevant' :D
<penguin42> what did the 'office move' actually do?
<daftykins> the IT firm were paid to assist, one of the 3 RAID member disks popped during or soon after, so it could've been handled badly - but on setting things up they plugged everything into 100 Mb switch ports instead of gigabit ones
<penguin42> was that network storage?
<daftykins> nah the HP ML350p has an integrated P420i SATA/SAS HBA with the 3 x 300GB 10,000 RPM SAS disks
<daftykins> oh i see what you mean, duh - yeah one of the backups was to a NAS
<daftykins> then the other was to a 2.5" HDD over USB 2.0 on a spare core 2 duo PC thrown on a shelf beside the server xD
<daftykins> all 100Mb when i got there :D
<penguin42> was the backup COW - or else why was the write performance so changed?
<daftykins> when moving to gigabit?
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> I mean if the storage was on local SAS why did it get faster?
<daftykins> it was doing a block analysis against the existing dump on the remote share, so i think its' ability to check was pretty hampered
<daftykins> the software for the backup should never have been installed on the VM itself, it's quite frankly laughable
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> it shows some nice stats, it would only ever write at 5MB/sec when it was performing those backups
<penguin42> nod, that's 50Mbps with the other 50 going to the backup I guess
<daftykins> because it interrogates the VMware ESXi host directly over LAN too, i think essentially you had the program inside the VM looking out and at its' own host, then throwing over the network to the target - so it was insanely constrained
<Chunkyz> K.
