#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-03
* bddebian ducks again
<ajmitch> :P
<ajmitch> dholbach: apart from bugs & feature requests, what else can be put on there?
<dholbach> everything that people want to make happen on the Desktop
<dholbach> we'll closely work with the artWork team
<dholbach> get fresh stuff in, discuss changes
<ajmitch> and the MOTU team? ;)
<dholbach> yes, and the MOTU team :)
<ajmitch> how much of this will be targetted at getting stuff into main?
<dholbach> we'll see :)
<bddebian> @!#%@#$^%$^ boson.  Newer upstream version requires automake 1.5... Grrrr
* bddebian thinks zakame can start with boson-base ;-P
<zakame> 1.5?!?
<\sh> grmpfmpfl...php...authserver...launchpad....ubuntuforums...grmpfnadad
<zakame> taking a look...
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<bddebian> zakame: We only have 0.9.1 in the archive but the code sucks :-)
<Nafallo> \sh: :-)
<zakame> 0.9.1 on all three releases...
<bddebian> In Debian?
<bddebian> I was trying to build 0.10 and/or 0.11 from sourceforge ;-)
<zakame> in ubuntu: http://packages.ubuntu.com/boson-base
<bddebian> Oh aye
<bddebian> It FTBFSs though
<dholbach> who is emmet hikory?
<zakame> gaah!
<bddebian> dholbach: persia
<dholbach> ah super, thank you
<zakame> eh? according to http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/source/boson-base, it build-depends on automake1.6... but as I take it, i should be 1.5?
<bddebian> Do we have 1.6?
<dholbach> we do
<\sh> zakame: there is more
<siretart> hi folks
<\sh> zakame: boson-base doesn't build (actual) because it's missing important kde includes, which are not there anymore, cause old, and the new one...oh boy, they're including now the old kde stuff but it doesn't work with g++4
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<zakame> hello
<siretart> hi bddebian
<dholbach> hi siretart
<siretart> huhu dholbach!
<dholbach> siretart: DESKTOP TEAM DAY! :)
<siretart> dholbach: all timezones, right? ;)
<zakame> \sh: waah!
<dholbach> YEAH
<\sh> zakame: forget boson-base or kick upstreams a**
<ajmitch> siretart: yes, so it started > 10 hours ago
<bddebian> Hehe
<siretart> oh
<\sh> zakame: most for the worldforge code is crap and broken
<bddebian> Hey, we have to fix it or drop it ;-P
<siretart> sad, but true :(
<siretart> let's better drop it
<bddebian> 10 bucks says elmo won't ;-)
<siretart> if in doubt, we can backport it when possible
<bddebian> Well upstream does have 2 newer releases than Debian :-)
<\sh> bddebian: then drop it
<\sh> bddebian: try it..do it again...I checked at least one newer release...
<spayne> dholbach: the desktop team looks great
<dholbach> spayne: hope you'll join the party :)
<spayne> if i can stay awake
<dholbach> don't worry, we kick it off "today" but we hope to stay around longer ;)
<bddebian> Oh shit, I missed CC meeting didn't I? :-(
<ajmitch> yes, you missed CC
<\sh> bddebian: it still continuing
<ajmitch> just about finished
<ajmitch> if you care about dispute resolution ;)
<zakame> I gather that dispute's about the forums?
<bddebian> zakame: OK, how about gnat-gps? :-)
<siretart> what was the forums dispute? (please only the short version)
<zakame> bddebian: checking
<\sh> join -meeting it's on ;)
<Nafallo> still on... ;-)
* bddebian is trying ghc-cvs AGAIN
<zakame> hmm, I think the gnats-gps package name is somewhat misleading... I first thought it was some GPS tracking tech...
<bddebian> Heh, no it's ada compiler stuff ;-)
<zakame> *gnat-gps pala...
<zakame> i see...
<ajmitch> bddebian: why do you care about ghc-cvs?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Because it's on both GL/GLU Transition and UnmetDep pages
* ajmitch thinks it's a package worth throwing into the morgue
<ajmitch> does anything actually use it?
<bddebian> Does anyone use half of this shit? :-)
<ajmitch> considering that we have a newer ghc6 (iirc)
<zakame> wouldn't it be better if gnat-gps be renamed to gnat-system? or even gnatsystem?
<ajmitch> bddebian: ~2 weeks to release, do you want to waste time on broken junk that noone cares about? :)
<siretart> I agree with ajmitch that we should better drop ghc-cvs for breezy
<ajmitch> bddebian: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?popcon=ghc-cvs
<siretart> we can reevaluate for dapper if necessary
<bddebian> Well can someone get someone to drop this stuff then?
<ajmitch> see how many people love it in debian
<ajmitch> of the 4 people listed in popcon for it, all are in the 'old' column :)
<bddebian> How do you check a specific package on popcon?
<siretart> look at the url ;)
<ajmitch> or click on popcon from packages.qa.debian.org/<packagename> :)
<dholbach> or popcon.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: yes, but I wanted to show debian's stats
<dholbach> yeah
<ajmitch> since I think more people use popcon there
<ajmitch> ubuntu's stats are really low by comparison
<dholbach> yeah
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well then can you tell me what I SHOULD be working on? ;-)
<dholbach> everybody in here: dpkg popularity-contest
<ajmitch> bddebian: malone bugs :)
<ajmitch> plenty there to look at
<bddebian> Bah, I'm too stupid for most of the stuff left on there. ;-)
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs <-- EVERYONE FIX BUGS KTHX
<havoc> heh
<ajmitch> bddebian: now what did I say yesterday?
<bddebian> ajmitch: You said I was right? ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: no, I didn't
<dholbach> good night everybody
<bddebian> Later dholbach
<ajmitch> night dholbach
<tseng> bye dholbach
<zakame> and now, sunrise in .ph
<ajmitch> morning tseng
<tseng> hi
<tseng> im wondering how penguins live on falkland islands
<tseng> re sounder
<tseng> it seems pretty odd place for a penguin
<tseng> Burgundavia: explain yourself
<tseng> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LocationFalklandIslands.png
<tseng> i guess that is pretty south
<ajmitch> tseng: penguins live only a few minutes from here, in NZ
<tseng> awesome
<Nafallo> ajmitch: wow! take your camera and send some pics to gothcat AT ubuntu.com please ;-)
<ajmitch> haha
<tseng> so
<tseng> im an ubuntu member now
<bddebian> You weren't before?
<tseng> not according to launchpad
<bddebian> hmm
<bddebian> Aren't you already an MOTU?
<tseng> yes
<ajmitch> and a main uploader
<bddebian> Well WTF? :-)
<tseng> haha
<Nafallo> hehe
<bmonty> hi all
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<tseng> so brandon@ubuntu.com works now
<tseng> im a real elite hacker now
<bddebian> Mine doesn't :-(
<\sh> g'night folks
<ajmitch> tseng: dude, can I have your autograph now?
<ajmitch> night \sh
<bmonty> is an ubuntu.com address all it takes to be leet?
<tseng> ajmitch: yes.
<tseng> bmonty: yep
<ajmitch> they're far rarer than debian.org addresses
<bmonty> ajmitch: you must be extra leet since I know you have both :)
<zakame> bbl, need to cook breakfast or die
* havoc has a havoc.org address, so there :P
<tseng> havoc.org is  apretty leet domain name
<tseng> not as cool as err.no
<havoc> tseng: not as cool as daemonic.org though, which I also own
<tseng> no
<havoc> and megahard.org as well :)
<tseng> er
<havoc> which isn't used for anything, but if I ever come into some serious bandwidth I'll host OSS stuff on megahard.org
<Nafallo> havoc: tell me the last one is a porno-site please? :-)
<tseng> i hope you meant hurd
<havoc> Nafallo: no
<ajmitch> yay for vanity domains
<tseng> ajmitch: whois me
<tseng> ajmitch: im all about them
<havoc> "Don't want small and flacid software?  Try MegaHard.Org"
<bmonty> :)
<havoc> or something along those lines
<bddebian> Hehe
<tseng> thats several steps above ubuntu hard nipple girl
<havoc> heh
<havoc> megahard.org would make an awsome ubuntu mirror domain
<siretart> n8 folks!
* siretart waves
<bmonty> bye siretart
<havoc> later
<tseng> oh yay @ mjg for tech board
<bddebian> later siretart and \sh_away
<bmonty> havoc: so do you actually have a corporation called infinite probability networks?
<bddebian> bmonty: Did those uploads build OK?
<havoc> bmonty: I did for 6 years, changed structure 2005-01-01 to form an LLC instead
<havoc> bmonty: now that it's down to just me
<havoc> but I've been doing work for bigchain.com now, which may become more or less full time
<havoc> they're the ones I spec'd out all the ubuntu stuff for
<bmonty> havoc: sounds like fun
<crimsun> hmm
<bmonty> bddebian: looks like lyx built ok on all archs, zapping failed on amd64
<crimsun> can't search on launchpad
<bddebian> crimsun: Aye, I've been hitting that alot lately :-(
<bddebian> bmonty: Cool,thx
<bmonty> bddebian: siretart told me this morning that there was an issue with symbolic links in the lyx package...so if he asks you about it, blame me
<bddebian> Heh, OK
<bddebian> Should we just reject duplicates?
<bmonty> can't you mark them as dups?
<bddebian> WIth a comment but that seems pretty dumb :-)
<bmonty> on the menu on the right side
<bddebian> Ahh, thx
<bmonty> crimsun: launchpad search doesn't work here either
<bddebian> "constraint not satisfied"?  WTF?
<TheMuso> part
<crimsun> and breezy-changes for this month is incomplete
<crimsun> I think there's a conspiracy ;)
<bddebian> Bah, where's bradb?? :-)
<tseng> hiding from me
<tseng> ive been hating on launchpad all day
<ajmitch> gr, forgot I can't ssh into the laptop from work today
<bddebian> doh
<bddebian> What should this line look like?:  discrDbl = PK_DBL ( & BCO_LIT(discr) );
* bmonty is waiting for the ajmitch slam
<tseng> something about discription doubles
<ajmitch> bmonty: ?
<bmonty> bddebian: looks like good syntax to me
<bddebian> I get "invalid lvalue in uranary '&'" on that line
<bmonty> ajmitch: nevermind...bad joke
<ajmitch> bmonty: one that I didn't get, obviouslt
<bmonty> yeah :)
* bddebian doesn't know shit about lvalues :-(
<bmonty> can you run x apps from inside the pbuilder chroot?
<ajmitch> sure, why not?
* ajmitch uses X from within his sid chroot
<ajmitch> xnest on my breezy desktop listening on tcp
<bmonty> It should work, but isn't working here.  Either the app fails to open the display without an error or something else weird is happening
<bmonty> I think we should close #341, anyone disagree (see comments on the bug)
<bddebian> bmonty: No, I think it needs a few more comments ;-P
<bmonty> at a minimum it does provide a good test for lauchpad's layout :)
<crimsun> geez, my mind wants to explode after reading #341
<crimsun> :p
<bmonty> heh, my point is that the original bug has been fixed
<crimsun> close it.
<bmonty> there still should be some discussion about what actually happens when you install the package
<crimsun> we'll need to involve pitti, then, because it does touch some security-sensitive areas.
<crimsun> severity -> wishlist, priority -> low
<crimsun> (if you leave it open)
<bmonty> I'm going to close the bug, and open a new one about how tpb doesn't start automatically after installation
<crimsun> sounds fine by me
<ajmitch> crimsun: Mithrandir has most of a rewrite of tpb done
<ajmitch> one that doesn't suck quite so much :)
<crimsun> oooh, excellent
<ajmitch> bbl
<Nafallo> tpb?
<bddebian> toilet paper blocker
<bmonty> Nafallo: thinkpad buttons
<Nafallo> ah. nothing for me then :-).
<bmonty> if there is a package re-write coming then I guess there is no need to open a bug
<bddebian> Did someone close 990 already?
<bmonty> is someone working on #298 for the hostap modules?
<bddebian> Not me :-)
<Nafallo> is the general policy to accept those you are working on now? :-)
<bmonty> yes
<bddebian> Nafallo: Sure, but I think they want to keep the assignee as MOTU.  Even though I see several got changed :-)
<Nafallo> yes :-)
<bddebian> Any amd64 users handy?
<Nafallo> about to go to bed
<havoc> who can afford amd64 stuff?
<bddebian> Bah
<Nafallo> havoc: my mother, currently ;-)
<bddebian> Well I might buy one but I already have 9 machines running in my house :-(
<Nafallo> she's paying of my loan :-P
<havoc> Nafallo: ah :)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Nafallo: ANy chance of a real quick test before you head out?
<Nafallo> bddebian: you could always ask me ;-)
<bddebian> Nafallo: Just a quick install and execute of safecat and see if it fails?
<Nafallo> after the cronned apt-get update finishes ;-)
<bddebian> w00t, thx
<Nafallo> *sigh* I _NEED_ the new connection I've been waiting for for two weeks now
<havoc> Nafallo: what do you have now?
<Nafallo> havoc: 512/512kbit
<havoc> ack
<havoc> still better than dialup
<havoc> but not as good as 6Mbps/384Kbps
<Nafallo> havoc: my ISP said they would upgrade me free of charge to 24/1Mbit and sent me a modem :-P.
<havoc> so where is it?
<Nafallo> I wonder to... probably all they have to do is move the f***ing cable.
<Nafallo> root@darkelf:/# safecat
<Nafallo> safecat: usage: safecat <tempdir> <destdir>
<Nafallo> bddebian: like that ^ :-)
<bddebian> Nafallo: Does it work? :-)
<Nafallo> bddebian: what does it do? :-)
<Nafallo> bddebian: what shall I do with it? :-)
<bddebian> Nafallo: Dunno but it looks like it would have failed just on startup.  Malone #1082
<Nafallo> bddebian: can't reproduce that, no :-)
<bddebian> OK, thx
<bmonty> is there a wiki page that talks about the proper way to set build depends for packages that need the kernel headers?
<bddebian> That just sucks :-)
<bddebian> Are you looking at hostap?
<bmonty> yes
<bddebian> You're scary dude ;-)
<ajmitch> why is that scary?
* bddebian just fixes .desktop files. :'-(
<bmonty> why, its just a module and the build depends need to be updated for the ubuntu kernel
<bddebian> :-)
<ajmitch> hostap is fairly simple, and quite useful
<bddebian> So fix it
<bddebian> :-)
<ajmitch> last time I tried I had some minor issues about where it wanted to put files
<bmonty> basically I'm pulling out all the references to kernel versions that ubuntu doesn't have
<ajmitch> bddebian: why, when bmonty is?
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> ajmitch: Oh good, help me with ghc-cvs then ;-P
<ajmitch> why, when it's crap & deserves to be dropped?
<bddebian> Can you convince elmo of that?
<ajmitch> why can't you?
<bddebian> I have asked him to morgue a few crappy packages and his response is usually.  "Why, SOMEONE might want it" :-)
<ajmitch> oh yay, ghc 6.4.1 was released
<Nafallo> bddebian: did you provide him with an argument for why?
<bmonty> so when breezy is released, it will only have one kernel version with the associated smp, 686, k7 variants, right?
<ajmitch> bddebian: then tell him that ghc-cvs lags the released ghc by a few months
* ajmitch hasn't checked what branch ghc-cvs was pulled from though
<bmonty> anyone know the answer to my question on the kernel version?
<bddebian> bmonty: Not me sorry
<crimsun> bmonty, in main, correct
<bmonty> crimsun: thanks...are you saying that there could be other versions in universe?
<ajmitch> no, there won't be if we can help it
<ajmitch> we learnt that with hoary - it has 2.6.11 in universe
<bmonty> ok, so is 2.6.12-9 going to be the breezy kernel version or could it change?
<crimsun> bmonty, there's a good possibility the ABI could be bumped again.
<crimsun> bmonty, but no, there should be only one version. In main.
<ajmitch> crimsun: there is? it's getting a bit late for that
<Nafallo> kernel freeze is on thursday ;-)
<bddebian> This is bullshit
<crimsun> sok bddebian, we still appreciate you
<bddebian> Yeah right, but thanks
<jsgotangco> hi all
<bddebian> Hello jsgotangco
* ogra hugs bddebian for doing his work ...
<ogra> thanks for nvu
<bddebian> NP
<ogra> bddebian, dont say that, you do awesome work currently...
<ogra> nobody fixes as much as you
<bmonty> so, if I build-depend on linux-headers-386 (which always depends on the latest kernel), can I use uname in the rules file to get the kernel version?
<bddebian> bmonty: Sounds rational
<bddebian> ogra: Tell that to elmo ;-P
<ogra> i'll do !
<ogra> but i'm sure he also recognized it :)
<bddebian> Oh yeah, you see how he loves my questions :-)
<ogra> as he loves everyones elses questions
<ogra> he appears a bit rude on IRC....
<ogra> not at all compliant to the person in RL
<ogra> (it impresses me every time i meet him)
<bddebian> I don't blame him, I know he's busy.  Its just frustrating because I have a lot of things I want to get done :-)
<ogra> he'll do them eventually... surely before release
<bmonty> sounds to me like the workload of removing packages needs to be spread around :)
<bmonty> it would be cool if we had a REMUV to compliment REVU :)
<ogra> there is only one person who actually can remove them :)
<bmonty> ogra: exactly my point...effort to distribute that work among several people would probably help
<ogra> bmonty, that would need more ftpmasters we dont have...
<bddebian> bmonty: How come you didn't close 1223?
<bmonty> bddebian: checking...
<bddebian> bmonty: I assume you know about the MOTUMorgueCandidates wiki page?
<bmonty> bddebian: yes, but my understanding is that elmo doesn't look at that page
<bddebian> Not that anyone that can do anything about it actually reads it
<ajmitch> elmo only takes direct requests
<bmonty> you will see several entries with my name on that page :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: And even those he usually ignores. ;-P
<bmonty> bddebian: 1223 is closed
<bddebian> bmonty: Thank you sir
<bmonty> np ;)
<bmonty> yay, my ipv6 tunnel is finally working :)
<bddebian> Nice
<tseng> did you get one of the free ones?
<ogra> oh, thanks bmonty ...
<ogra> i just realized 1223 was my bug
<bmonty> tseng: yes, he.net
<bmonty> ogra: no problem :)
* ogra doesnt come round to fix uiverse packages recently
<bddebian> Yeah WTF? ;-)
<ogra> ETOOMUCHEDUBUNTU and ETOOMUCHSCREENSAVERCHANGES
<ogra> the latter is the worst....
<ogra> ... since totally unplanned
<ogra> but anyway, 4am... night all
<ajmitch> night ogra
<bddebian> Gnight ogra
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> what ogra said :-)
<Nafallo> bye
<bmonty> ajmitch: do you use a 6to4 tunnel by any chance?
<ajmitch> not really
<ajmitch> it breaks routing too often for my setup
<bmonty> so your ISP gives you a v6 address?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> just a standard tunnel
<ajmitch> not from my isp
<ajmitch> 6to4 is a different form of tunnel
<bmonty> do you use /etc/network/interfaces to maintain the configuration?
<ajmitch> no
* ajmitch uses the same software as freenet6
<bddebian> That's strange.  xawtv doesn't suggest any video packages :-)
<bmonty> hmm...I'm trying to figure out the best way to configure a 6to4 tunnel across reboots
<bmonty> best documentation I can find is for woody, and I'm not sure if it is up to date for the ifupdown package in sarge
<ajmitch> aha
<bddebian> w00t, c'mon bmonty we're down to 515 ;-)
<ajmitch> back down to 515, you mean
<bmonty> bddebian: sorry man...I'm playing IPv6 for a little bit :)
<bddebian> Doh
<bddebian> ajmitch: Aye :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: you should be able to close another 100 or so today
<bddebian> Nah, I'm getting ready to play Fable for tonight :-)
<ajmitch> bah
<ajmitch> you're going to leave them for me to do after work, aren't you?
<bddebian> Of course :-)
* ajmitch spots a bug he can close
* bddebian wonders what's up with ardour
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> hello all! :D
<bddebian> Anyone think we should just close/reject #1380?
<ajmitch> bddebian: reject, breezy version is in sync with debian
<zakame> is that about yaboot?
<ajmitch> zakame: malone 1380
<ajmitch> about a maintainer field
<zakame> ah
<zakame> I was checking bugzilla
* ajmitch *really* has to fix more bugs to catch up with bddebian 
<bddebian> Anyone know if slomo ever uploaded smlnj?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Keep dreaming baby.. ;-P
<ajmitch> smlnj | 110.54-0ubuntu1 | http://10.18.1.1 breezy/universe Packages
<ajmitch> bddebian: you're right, I can't catch you in bug closing
<bddebian> ajmitch: Yeah, I just saw the smlnj ;-)
<ajmitch> why did you ask then? :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Remember what I said about quantity != quality ;-P
<bddebian> Because I like to just spout for no reason.  Ask tseng :-)
<zakame> ajmitch, indeed, Debian QA ought not to be the in the maintainer field
<zakame> this means the package was orphaned
<ajmitch> zakame: if you looked at the package, you'd see that it isn't
<ajmitch> it was adopted back in may
* ajmitch rejects another bug with vengeance
<zakame> hmmm, adopted in debian or in ubuntu?
<ajmitch> bddebian: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/zope-cmfplone/+bug/1081
<ajmitch> zakame: debian
<ajmitch> zakame: and we have that same version
<ajmitch> bddebian: looks enough like a non-bug? ;)
<bddebian> ajmitch: I saw that one earlier and thought of you :-)
<bddebian> Does anyone else think #1481 is dumb? :-)
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> bddebian: I willingly take any zope bugs
<bddebian> ajmitch: OK.  Are we still leaving MOTU as the asignee?
<bddebian> Reject #1481?
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes, leave MOTU as assignee
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> maybe reject it
<bmonty> I say reject
<bmonty> let the submitter justify why the description needs to be changed
<bddebian> tritium: Welcome to the "unofficial" bug day. :-)
<tritium> bddebian, oh yeah?  Cool...
* bddebian will keep #1568 around forever just for the comedic value
<bddebian> C'mon zakame keep up!! ;-P
<zakame> waah!
<ajmitch> bddebian: I can't do much bug triage at the moment :P
<bddebian> ajmitch: I'm just busting your balls man. :-)
<ajmitch> well I'll get back to it later
<ajmitch> & I'll try & catch up
* ajmitch guesses the audacity issue could be font
<ajmitch> I suck
<ajmitch> I really do
<ajmitch> when I misspell typo in a changelog
<bmonty> ajmitch: is that the bug on the fonts in the about box being messed up?
<ajmitch> bmonty: yes
* zakame seconds keeping #1568 :))
<bmonty> I played with that one and couldn't get it to work.  You can set the font used by the text box, but it has no effect or the text disappears
<jsgotangco> bug day??
<ajmitch> great
<bddebian> ajmitch: :-)
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: join in if you want
<bddebian> zakame: ;-)
<jsgotangco> malone?
<bddebian> jsgotangco: Aye
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: unofficial
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: in other words, bddebian decided to go postal on malone
<zakame> hmmm, under tl_PH, date is "septiyembre 28, 2005"; that ought to be "setiyembre"
<bddebian> ajmitch: :-)
<zakame> to what package am I supposed to post a bug/patch for that?
<ajmitch> probably locales in bugzilla?
<jsgotangco> 1333 is confirmed
<ajmitch> don't remind bddebian of ardour :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: 507!
<zakame> jsgotangco, ardour-gtk?
<jsgotangco> yes
<bmonty> is the malone search function working now?
<bddebian> ajmitch: 507 what?
<bddebian> ajmitch: I'm not working on ardour, I just know it's on UnmetDeps too :-)
<bddebian> Hmm, whats up with libxp-dev?
<ajmitch> bddebian: 506 open bugs now
<bmonty> lol
* ajmitch is trailing you by 20 bugs
<bmonty> bddebian: give me a bug number, please!!
<bddebian> bmonty: For what?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Ahh cool
<bmonty> to fix
<bddebian> 1686
<ajmitch> bmonty: 1780 ;)
<bddebian> Why does1780 sound familiar?
<zakame> how about a wishlist bug to launchpad? re: random bug viewer
<bmonty> ajmitch: 1780...hmm, I gave up on that.  I asked about changing the ubuntu mirrors format and nobody seemed interested
<bddebian> bmonty: If you could fix wesnoth -t option I would be stoked.  I have tried :-(
<bddebian> zakame: :-)
<bmonty> an "I'm feeling lucky.." link for launchpad?
<jsgotangco> nice one
<zakame> yeah
<bddebian> bmonty: Nice :-)
<bmonty> 1686 is done...
<bddebian> bmonty: Did you test it? ;-)
<bmonty> of course
<bddebian> How'd you fix it?
<bmonty> it has no desktop file though....
<bddebian> I noticed that.  I was gonna add one :-)
<bmonty> bddebian: the package in breezy has the correct dependencies and the program starts
<bmonty> it build depends on xlibs-dev and and the binaries appear to have the correct dependencies
<bddebian> Was that posted against hoary?
<bmonty> bddebian: I think so
<bddebian> Hmm.  What a lamer.  See ajmitch I can't even fix the easy ones. ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: 504!
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> yes you can
<ajmitch> bddebian: shall we aim for < 450 bugs open? ;)
<bmonty> ajmitch: not tonight, I have to work tomorrow
<bddebian> ajmitch: Sure :-)
<bddebian> Well I guess I'm not playing any Fable tonight :'-(
<bmonty> so I need to go to the next technical board meeting to finish my request to be an MOTU, right?  I'm probably going to have to take the day off from work to be there.
<tritium> bmonty, can't IRC at work either?
<bddebian> bmonty: IRC from work man ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: go ahead & play fable then, I've still got a few hours left in me ;)
<bmonty> yeah right, IRC is blocked at the firewall
<tritium> bddebian, some of us can't, dude ;)
<bddebian> bmonty: 1704 ;-)
<bddebian> bmonty: ssh and irssi? ;-)
<bddebian> tritium: So get a better job. ;-P
<tritium> bddebian, I like mine very much, thank you
<bmonty> bddebian: cricumventing network security measures is seriously frowned upon where I work
<tritium> yeah, lose your clearance, get fired...
<bmonty> ...go to jail
<tritium> yep
<ajmitch> is that all? :)
<bddebian> Oh so you two are "those" types eh? ;-)  I'm only kidding you know :-)
<zakame> I'm experiencing #1975
<tritium> bddebian, take off, you hoser ;)
* tritium is only kidding with Boilermaker Barry
<bmonty> :)
<bddebian> hehe
<bmonty> so, is the technical meeting the right place to be?
<bddebian> Yes
<ajmitch> bmonty: yes
<bddebian> Where have I heard allegro from before?
<ajmitch> bmonty: that's where we'll consider supporting you for MOTU
<bmonty> right
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> after that we take you outside for the MOTU initiation
<bmonty> as long as there is beer and dacing girls, I'm cool with that
<bddebian> Hehe
<bddebian> That would be UBZ if I could go!! :-)
<bmonty> bddebian: 1704...I say reject and we morgue the package...doesn't gnome do all this stuff for us and better?
<bddebian> Bah fsck.  I thought we got libjack0.100.0
<bmonty> or I should say nautilus?
<bddebian> bmonty: Probably
<zakame> bbl
<bmonty> lufs has had no updates since Oct 2003, I think it is easily a morgue candidate
<bddebian> Hey didn't dholbach say zakame was gonna kick my ass in uploads?? ;-P
<bddebian> bmonty: YOU take it to elmo :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: UBZ won't be beer & dancing girls
<bmonty> k
<ajmitch> it'll be hard work & no sleep
<ajmitch> & beer
<bddebian> It'd be dancing girls if I was going.. ;-P
<bmonty> I was on the fence until you said beer, but OK
<bddebian> Heh
<ajmitch> well there might be some dancing girls
<ajmitch> I know that at least a few of them will go to the bars
<ajmitch> the bug count isn't dropping very fast.. get back to work :)
<bddebian> bmonty: 1753?
<ajmitch> can anyone confirm 1657 ?
<ajmitch> he reported the bug against the version currently in breezy
<bddebian> 1757 is comical
<bmonty> ajmitch: 1780...how do you like it now?
<ajmitch> bddebian: known thing with qt & themes
<bddebian> ajmitch: Giveme a sec and I'll try it
<ajmitch> bmonty: hm, ok
<bddebian> ajmitch: It works for me but I don't know what (s)he means by "I listen some (midi?) music:"??
<bmonty> d4x works here also...maybe the midi thing is refering to the music that plays when it starts?
<bddebian> Maybe
<bddebian> I wonder if he has upgraded?  Isn't there some newer gdk stuff out there?
<ajmitch> probably
<ajmitch> so it might be fixed now
<ajmitch> 501!
<bmonty> I'm downloading a file with it no problem
<ajmitch> close 2 more bugs pls
* bddebian is working on 1717
<bddebian> closed
<bddebian> w00t 500
<ajmitch> bddebian: yay, down to 500 bugs open
<bddebian> Can anyone reproduce #1763 ?
<bddebian> I can't
<bmonty> checking...
<bmonty> where are some truetype fonts to test against?
<bddebian> Dunno, I just tried the command that they have posted there
<bddebian> I don't even see a valid kdebindings package, so I don't know where he got a 3.4.2 version from on 1784 ??
<bddebian> Riddell: You awake? :-)
<bmonty> ttmkfdir appears to work fine here
<bddebian> bmonty: Thanks.  I'll make a comment and give him/her a few days.
<bmonty> ok, I'm going to bed....night everyone
<bddebian> gnight bmonty thanks a million!  Good stuff!
<bddebian> w00t 499
<ajmitch> night bmonty
<bddebian> Why don't we have any tomcat packages?
<ajmitch> lack of java love?
<ajmitch> they can probably fit in multiverse, I guess
<ajmitch> unelss they work ok with free java
<bddebian> Hmm, OK
<ajmitch> and it's antique in debian
<bddebian> Well #1864 is looking for them :-)
<ajmitch> ok, tomcat4 is a different source package
<ajmitch> in debian contrib
<bddebian> Oh, aye sorry,  should have been more specifc
<bddebian> specific even :-)
<bddebian> OK it's 1:00am, time for bed.  Thanks ajmitch
<taryn> Hi, I'm taryn and I'm hoping to begin to contribute to ubuntu - but I don't think I'm good enough to be a member/maintainer yet.
<taryn> The wiki say I should join this channel and go looking for somebody from MOTU willing to help me out
<taryn> Is there anybody here (or that somebody here knows) that would be willing to mentor me through beginning ot contribute to OSS stuff?
<Burgundavia> tseng, say again/
<crimsun> taryn, we all do
<crimsun> taryn, there are some "wannabe" pages on the wiki under MOTU that you might want to start with
<taryn> crimsun: as far as I can see - the pages tend to be more aimed towards "so you want ot be a maintainer"
<taryn> they assume that you know what you want to do, for a start :(
<taryn> I'm looking at starting at a much more basic level and will admittednly need a little hand-holding ot begin with.
<crimsun> taryn, there are lots of ways to help and a variety of beginning skillsets
<crimsun> taryn, we'll help you with things as you come across questions
<taryn> I have a few years of commerical C skills and am beginning to learn Python
<crimsun> taryn, then you'll be up and running in no time.
<lifeless> taryn: east, I presume ?
<taryn> I would best like to start by having a few simple bugs to find/fix - then I could proceed to harder stuff...
<taryn> lifeless - yep
<lifeless> :)
<crimsun> -> laundry
<taryn> lifeless - do I know you? (don't recognise the nick) :)
<lifeless> yes, Robert Collins
<lifeless> openskills-dev list, slug
<taryn> ah, the small world. :)
<lifeless> indeed.
<lifeless> so, first thing is probably finding a well contained bug ;0
<taryn> lifeless: well contained?
<taryn> I went trawling through bugzilla the other day, but I honestly don't know what to look for... there was such a flood of stuff
<lifeless> some bugs have knock on impact, either because fixing them implies backwards incompatability or other such things, or because they were masking some other nasty bug
<taryn> I may also be quite limited in that I only have one computer to work with at home, and I can't put anything unstable on it... I'm curretnly on V 5.04
<lifeless> so a well contained bug may not be small, nor easy, but fixing it doesn't involve huge amounts of scatter
<lifeless> I suggest you build yourself a chroot..
<lifeless> install dchroot and cdebootstrap
<lifeless> the former is just some sugar to run stuff easily in chroots
<lifeless> the latter will let you create a breezy (5.10) environment that won't impact your day to day work
<lifeless> so that you can fix bugs in current stuff safely
<taryn> ok, so that's kind of like having alternative bootup OS's? and chroot lets you switch without rebooting???
<lifeless> in a very handwaving way, yes.
<lifeless> :)
<taryn> cool
<lifeless> you need enough free space to do this, naturally
<taryn> should have enough for that.
<taryn> so, how do I find self-contained bugs amongst the rest (or is this a black art)?
<lifeless> I hope that some of the more active motus have some to hand
<lifeless> ajmitch: ping
<lifeless> ajmitch has his finger on the pulse here
<taryn> cool
<taryn> well, I have something to start with for tonight. I'll get chroot happening then get back here after that. :)
<taryn> thanks.
<lifeless> happy to help
<crimsun> taryn, trawl malone
<taryn> crimsun: what's malone?
<crimsun> there are tons of bugs on malone that could use more info and assistance
<crimsun> http://launchpad.net/malone
<lifeless> taryn: malone is the official bugtracker for the universe packages
<lifeless> taryn: its a little more organised than bugzille
<taryn> ok - just looking at it now
<taryn> out of curiosity - is there a way of looking at the buglist and picking only packagesthat are written in a lanuage I know?
<lifeless> mmm
<lifeless> not sure, but that sure would be nice wouldn't it.
<lifeless> let me see if brad or bjorn are awake
<lifeless> bradb and bjornt are the two main devs for malone
<crimsun> taryn, you can kinda cheat. Python packages will be python-foo or pyfoo generally.
<taryn> crisun: good point :)
<taryn> crimsun: though when I say I'm a beginner at Python - that means I picked up the book last week ;) I'm up to chapter 5, though!
<lifeless> we do have the metadata
<lifeless> to do this from package information in launchpad
<crimsun> and perl stuff will generally be libfoo-perl
<crimsun> similar for Ruby: libfoo-rubyVer
* ajmitch is back
<ajmitch> taryn: ah, another person from this part of the world :)
<taryn> ajmicth : sydney? :)
<ajmitch> no, just australia/nz :)
<taryn> apologies for dyslexic fiuger... :P
<ajmitch> nothing compared to my typing today
<ajmitch> how would you like to help out? packaging, bug fixing?
<lifeless> taryn: bjorn says that there are no current plans to do that, but that it is an interesting scenario
<lifeless> taryn: and would you be willing to file a bug on launchpad in malone about that ?
<taryn> ajmitch: probably bug-fixing to begin with. I don't know how to do packaging
<taryn> not that I don't want to learn - just that I can be more immediately useful if I start with bugs
<ajmitch> a lot of the bugs we get in malone are packaging related, rather than broken upstream code
<taryn> lifeless: sure thing... erm I'll just go find out how
<ajmitch> although we still have a lot of that
<ajmitch> we don't anticipate being bug-free for release, though, so there's plenty to work on
* Burgundavia laughs at the assertation of being bug-free
<ajmitch> if we're free from bugs we obviously have no users ;)
<taryn> ajmitch: I found a packaging how-to at one stage, but haven't had a chance to read it yet - I think it was debian-based. Is there much aof a diff (given the closeness of ubuntu-debian)?
<ajmitch> no, there's practically no differences
<ajmitch> and we try & keep as close to debian as is practical
<taryn> ok then, I'll print that out and read it on the bus :)
<zakame> hello again
<crimsun> 'lo
<taryn> I just got a new launchpad acct (for submitting that "bug")... out of curiosity, what is hackergotchi and why can't I access it?
<lifeless> heh. hackergotchi are little heads that show up beside peoples names
<lifeless> and its not quite finished yet;0
<ajmitch> launchpad still has a few rough edges :)
<lifeless> s/rough/bleeding knives/
<taryn> <grin> so presumably that would be the little man you see on your "please make a homepage" page? So presumably in future I could turn that into a girls head instead? :)
<ajmitch> taryn: it's generally the disembodied head photo that you see on pages like planet.ubuntu.com
<zakame> hackergotchi!
<ajmitch> wb jsgotangco :)
<taryn> ajmitch: ok - so an avatar in essence. Cool
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> my dsl suddenly died
<taryn> lifeless : is there anything specific I have to do to add a bug that is really a feature request?
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: looks like it's been suddenly dying all day
<jsgotangco> yes
<lifeless> taryn: nope
<jsgotangco> but no one is answering on support
<lifeless> taryn: just say what you'd like to have happen
<taryn> lifeless: do I still need to specify a distro?
<lifeless> jsgotangco: you with telstra then ;)
<lifeless> taryn: no. What url are you at ?
<taryn> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/+package
<lifeless> ah
<lifeless> so, you might find https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bugs more useful
<lifeless> for filing a bug on launchpad itself
<taryn> ok, hve added - not very detailed in description, though... there's not much to say.
<lifeless> thanks
<ajmitch> doesn't look like I'll be catching the top 5 on karma anytime soon
<Lathiat> haha where do you see that
<crimsun> I wish I could upload my GPG-signed CoC...
<ajmitch> well the 5th person has 3969 :)
<Lathiat> apparently karma for translations is broken
<ajmitch> fixed now
<zakame> I'm filing my `random bug viewer' bugrep... :))
<Lathiat> as in if you upload a translation it ..
<Lathiat> ah :)
<lifeless> crimsun: why can't you ?
<ajmitch> people don't get insanely high karma for translations now
<crimsun> lifeless, because it barfs trying to retrieve my key
<lifeless> crimsun: have you filed a bug ?
<crimsun> lifeless, no, there are three others.
<crimsun> I didn't feel the need to file yet another bug on it.
<lifeless> dups ?
<crimsun> two dups
<crimsun> dupes, rather
<lifeless> I don't suppose you have the #'s ?
<crimsun> sec
<ajmitch> lifeless: are you still spending a fair bit of time on launchpad?
<lifeless> ajmitch: closely involved in it
<lifeless> not coding much on it
<ajmitch> mainly hacking bzr now
<crimsun> hmph, when I attempt to search it explodes too
<lifeless> yep
<crimsun> (it has been doing that all night)
<ajmitch> crimsun: I just filed a bug on that
<lifeless> crimsun: thats beeing looked at right now
<lifeless> timeout on a complex query
<crimsun> right
<lifeless> if you log out it will work.
<lifeless> :!
<crimsun> hmph, can't find them- or any- which is odd
<lifeless> crimsun: there was one with subkey support
<lifeless> crimsun: we fixed that about 1.5 months back
<crimsun> lifeless, nah, this one's more recent. I click edit gpg key, paste my fingerprint, click submit, and get a system error
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> ah, so the subkey thing was that you could add the key but the coc was rejected
<taryn> \away testing away function :)
<taryn> guess not
<taryn> AWAY testing away function again... :)
<taryn> <sigh>
<taryn> anyone know the magic spell for using away on irssi?
<crimsun>  /away message
<taryn> ah... got the slash backwards. thanks
<Burgundavia> taryn, but please don't use them here
<crimsun> some people prefer /nick foo_away
<crimsun> etc.
<taryn> burgundavia: ok, why not?
<Burgundavia> taryn, it is spam
<taryn> burgundavia : oh, ok. so it's better to just leave the channel?
<Burgundavia> you can linger
<taryn> burgundavia : I just don't want to be rude if I head off for coffee/lunch/etc and don't answer if somebody asks (not that anyone is likely to)...
<taryn> burgundavia : ok, no problem. :)
<Burgundavia> taryn, some change their nick, ala \sh_away, others like myself just got away
<Burgundavia> s/got/go
<lifeless> Burgundavia: huh
<Burgundavia> lifeless, I make sense dammit
<lifeless> Burgundavia: you are thinking of away announce scripts, which is not the same as marking the client away
<lifeless> taryn: '/away at lunch' is completely fine.
<Burgundavia> lifeless, ah, ok
<taryn> lifeless, burgundavia : ok... :)
<taryn> thanks.
<lifeless> Burgundavia: some client, I don't recall which one, had announcing away status as a default, and that was truely spam
<crimsun> that would be the infamous bitchx
<taryn> thanks for your help. :)
<zakame> hmmm, tuxtype doesn't seem to have a .desktop file
<zakame> ei dholbach
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<dholbach> bon jour!
<dholbach> hellas!, how are you guys?
<ajmitch> good :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: we're below 500 bugs open on malone again ;)
<dholbach> WOW :)
* ajmitch has another one to close in a few minutes once this builds, is tested, and is uploaded
<ajmitch> dholbach: seen this? https://launchpad.net/people/bddebian/+karma
<dholbach> WOW
<dholbach> he's insane
<ajmitch> makes my few bugs I've closed look pitiful ;)
<dholbach> mine too
<crimsun> kick arse
<dholbach> ok, i will make the universe-bugs--list now non-moderated
<ajmitch> hm
<dholbach> having to approve mails manually is ... BORING
<dholbach> and i suppose they alaways get a mail too
* ajmitch has about 3 packages here to upload & close malone bugs now
<dholbach> which is plainly stupid
* zakame remembers Gnus' adaptive-scoring :))
<ajmitch> dholbach: not if they're subscribed, and they used the launchpad preferred address
* ajmitch has flooded universe-bugs a little today as well >:)
<dholbach> ajmitch: but lots of people do bug triage who don't care about any mailing list
<ajmitch> I know :)
<ajmitch> ok, now to track down if this .desktop file I added will show up in the menu
* ajmitch waits for his pbuilders :)
<ajmitch> grr, gnome-chess ftbfs
<dholbach> ajmitch: want me to look at it?
<ajmitch> if you really really want
<dholbach> ok
* ajmitch was just editing a patch in it
<ajmitch> just C badness, I think
<ajmitch> don't worry about it
<ajmitch> it's fixed in debian
<ajmitch> so I'll merge my changes & the debian changes & upload
<zakame> is anyone packaging lighttpd?
<ajmitch> or just drop  my changes, 0.3.3-6 has them anyway but the bug wasn't closed
<ajmitch> not that I'm aware of
<dholbach> ajmitch: ok
<ajmitch> but there's so many people around now that I can't be sure :)
<ajmitch> ah well, another one to throw on the sync pile
<zakame> so, how do I say in the wiki or in launchpad that I might be working on a particular package, re: like adopting it in debian?
<dholbach> first you hvae to change it in the package itself
<dholbach> you set the Maintainer part of it and upload it
<zakame> I gather I need to sign up to REVU before I upload
<dholbach> REVU is just the place where we upload the packages that we want to have reviewed
<dholbach> non-MOTUs use it to let somebody sponsor their upload
<dholbach> (so they can check before)
<dholbach> for NEW packages we follow the http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackagesPolicy
<dholbach> (which means 2 other people have to approve it, before it gets in)
<dholbach> the other place we upload to, is the build daemons of ubuntu itself
<dholbach> but therefore you need to be in the keyring
<dholbach> we only set the maintainer part if we REALLY REALLY REALLY want to maintain the package, so 1) get new releases in, 2) fix bugs, 3) get thrashing if something breaks, 4) listen to whining users, ...
<dholbach> :)
* ajmitch enjoys that part
* ajmitch needs more karma ;)
<dholbach> so you should think twice before you change the maintainer part - if you get a new package in yourself it's a different matter - it requires you to be the maintainer
<zakame> dholbach, yes, the joys and woes of a Debian maintainer
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs <-- down to 495 open ;)
<dholbach> we don't have the BML in ubuntu, and i think it's a good thing
<dholbach> (big maintainer lock)
<dholbach> so no NMUs
<zakame> that's good
<dholbach> yeah
<ajmitch> it's moving away from that in debian
<zakame> hence every universe packages gets checked twice(?): One by the uploader, then another by the reviewer
<ajmitch> with team maintenance
<ajmitch> zakame: every new universe package
<ajmitch> that much overhead for everyday fixing would cripple us
<jsgotangco> don't let zakame in, he'll spam you guys all day
<jsgotangco> hehehe
<ajmitch> dholbach: btw I have pwlib fix for you to test
<dholbach> every NEW NEW NEW :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: excellent
<zakame> jsgotangco, waah! :))
<dholbach> Burgundavia: the fridge is not announced yet
<Treenaks> dholbach: there is some "buzz" about it though :)
<dholbach> i was referring to corey's blog entry
<ajmitch> dholbach: jdub hasn't exactly been quiet about it :)
<dholbach> no, not really
<ajmitch> he's been only jokingly secretive about it :)
<robitaille> it is jdub who decided to post about it in sounder...
<dholbach> ah ok
<ajmitch> with 'ssshhh' & a footnote pointing to it
<robitaille> that's the one.
<dholbach> i thought he'd make the announce BIG :)
<robitaille> the hope is probably to ramp up the content using the sounder people has the initial input seed
<robitaille> at least that's my guess
* ajmitch reads far too many mailing lists & irc channels
<ajmitch> dholbach: can you check http://ajmitch.dyndns.win.co.nz/debuild/ubuntu/reviews/pwlib.debdiff ?
<ajmitch> I haven't done the upgrade check that's required yet
<ajmitch> but I'm about 75% sure it'll work ;)
<dholbach> *CRY* the autobuild started again and the information has gone
<ajmitch> all the old logs are gone?
<ajmitch> how long does the test rebuild take?
<dholbach> days
<ajmitch> so not soon enough to be really useful for release
<dholbach> i mean the information is "there"
<dholbach> but not agreggated
<Burgundavia> dholbach, the forums are already talking about it
<dholbach> ok :)
<dholbach> wasn't aware of the overall news coverage ;-)
<spayne> Burgundavia: morning
<spayne> dholbach: morning as well
<dholbach> hi spayne
<lazyb0y> hi!
<ajmitch> hello
<zakame> hello lazyb0y
<ajmitch> Lathiat: ping
<Lathiat> pong
<ajmitch> Lathiat: avahi 0.5 pls
<Lathiat> waiting on ross, i emailed him earlier
<ajmitch> poke him a few more times
<spayne> hmm - i'm trying to package up pyvnc2swf
<spayne> but the source code is already compiled in python
<spayne> so do i just need somethign in debian/rules for install?
<dholbach> you might want to look at another python package
<dholbach> just   apt-get source   it
<spayne> serpentine?
<spayne> smeg?
<spayne> what is the command to rebuild a package btw?
<spayne> in smeg, i can't see what tells the debhelper to do
<spayne> there is no makefile
<spayne> and there is nothing of any signifcance in debian/rules
<Lathiat> goto www.debian.org, in the new maintainer section of the developer section
<spayne> yes, i am on http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide
<spayne> but that ain't help
<Lathiat> read it :)
<spayne> dholbach suggested i look at another python package (which seems a good idea)
<spayne> but there is no makefile for smeg!
<spayne> there is a setup.py
<spayne> Lathiat: with the package i'm trying to package (pyvnc2swf), the python code is already compiled in the source, it just needs to be installed
<\sh> gnarf
<spayne> ?
<\sh> which version of real player is in multiverse?
<spayne> good question - it is like version 8 which asks you to download a bin file IIRC \sh
<Lathiat> ahhh, just had 5x200GB sata drives delivered to me :)
<spayne> can anyone suggest another package which might be easier to try
<spayne> for a new package whos attempts have failed
<spayne> \sh: any ideas?
<\sh> spayne: hmm...give me a clue...from unmetdeps or something else? do u intent to package a new one?
<spayne> i'd like to package a new one
<ajmitch> hey \sh
<spayne> \sh: well, you tell me. i want to help with packaging and where is the best place to start?
<\sh> spayne: well...do you want to package some kde stuff? ,-)
<\sh> spayne: I have a bunch of easy ones...kde kwin styles and themes etc
<\sh> spayne: I took them over from the former maintainer...he doesn't have interesst anymore
<\sh> spayne: and they're sitting on my harddrive since a couple of months
<\sh> spayne: and waiting to be renewed :)
<spayne> well - i'm a GNOME guy
<spayne> \sh: but if there is nothing else, sure, i could give it a go
<\sh> spayne: I'm a kde guy and doing as well gnome stuff...
<spayne> \sh: be back soon - going for breakfast
<spayne> \sh: back
<spayne> \sh: i'll give it a bash - if it is easy :)
<spayne> \sh: just tell me what to do :)
<spayne> \sh: ping
<ajmitch> ogra: favour to ask - can I break UVF for some of my debian packages (release in a few hours, mainly bugfixes) :)
<ogra> ajmitch, if they dont break other stuff etc... you know the rules of thumb ;)
<ajmitch> ogra: I just feel bad granting myself freeze exceptions  ;)
<ogra> heh, doit :)
<ajmitch> though I have to do that for f-spot once I see the release (was meant to be today)
<spayne> back
<spayne> \sh: are you still away?
<\sh> spayne: pong
<spayne> \sh: i will try my best - will i need to install KDE?
<\sh> spayne: http://debian.neo.pl/wfmh/pool/main/k/ -> the kwin-styles...please check whats in ubuntu and what not, and repackage those things...check as well for new versions of upstream :) thx :)
<\sh> spayne: no
<spayne> \sh: can i ask you if i get stuck
<\sh> spayne: pbuilder and breezy chroot is enough :) if you have to test the packages...do it in a chroot with kde-build-deps  installed :)
<\sh> spayne: sure
<spayne> \sh: hmm - there are no packages called kwin-style or kwin-decor in ubuntu
<\sh> spayne: check e.g. for baghira
<spayne> \sh: should there be?
<\sh> apt-cache search baghira
<\sh> spayne: some
<\sh> take the names without kwin-styles ;)
<spayne> got it :-)
<\sh> and search for them
<spayne> there ain't one called activeheart
<spayne> \sh: is this right, i download the .dsc, .tar.gz file manually from neo.pl and then adjust them?
<spayne> \sh: or should i add the apt source to my sources.list?
<\sh> spayne: no sources list adjustment...
<spayne> so, which bits do i need?
<\sh> spayne: download the .dsc, orig..tar.gz, and .diff.gz
<spayne> if i do it right, will they go into universe?
<\sh> spayne: but check first if there are new upstream versions of those packages (upstream == real upstream, you'll find informations in debian/copyright)
<\sh> spayne: and sometimes those packages are horrible packaged, so sometimes it's good to package them from scratch
<\sh> spayne: and lipstik e.g. is already in ubuntu ;)
<spayne> \sh: there is no diff.gz
<\sh> spayne: ok...so please repackage them to have .orig.tar.gz and diff.gz...he made I think only native packages :(
<\sh> infinito: ping
<\sh> infinito: Error: You don't have permission to write in the selected directory
<\sh> install -D -m 0644 debian/gcfilms/usr/share/gcfilms/icons/gcfilms_logo128.png \ debian/gcfilms/usr/share/pixmaps/gcfilms.png
<\sh> install: cannot stat `debian/gcfilms/usr/share/gcfilms/icons/gcfilms_logo128.png': No such file or directorymake: *** [install]  Error 1
<infinito> \sh: which version are you using?
<\sh> infinito: pbuilder output of gcfilms-5.3-2
<spayne> \sh: where do i get the upstream from (kwin-activeheart)
<\sh> infinito: the one from debian unstable
<infinito> \sh: yesterday 5.3-3 was uploaded, it's supposed to fix that problem
<\sh> spayne: check debian/copyright
<infinito> \sh: take a look here: ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gcfilms/
<\sh> infinito: well...I can't sync it when it's not in unstable
<\sh>     * testing (x11): 5.3-2
<\sh>       Binary packages: gcfilms
<\sh>     * unstable (x11): 5.3-2
<\sh>       Binary packages: gcfilms
<\sh> so 5.3-3 is somewhere else..and not in the archives ;)
<spayne> \sh: kde-look.org
<ajmitch> it takes a little while to seep through the system :)
<ajmitch> debian isn't as fast as ubuntu, remember
<\sh> spayne: ok...check there ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: that's what I said ;)
<infinito> \sh: well, maybe the cron job that makes the package appear on packages.debian.org hasn't run yet
<ajmitch> \sh: http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gcfilms/
<ajmitch> it's in the archive
<infinito> and the bugs opened about that problem are now closed
<spayne> \sh: will skip activeheart, can't find it
<spayne> \sh: there are only RPMs available
<spayne> \sh: but for kwin-decor-akdc, thee is a diff.gz, .dsc as well as the .orig.tar.gz
<spayne> \sh: sorry to ask but how do i apply the .diff.gz to the .orig.tar.gz
<infinito> dpkg-source -x blablabla.dsc
<spayne> infinito: the package is currently called kwin-decor-akdc but for ubuntu, it needs to be kwin-akdc, what do i need to do>
<infinito> you have to edit the debian/control file
<spayne> and rename the folder?
<spayne> would the maintainer be me or the debian guy>
<infinito> the folder should be named packagename-version
<infinito> if you are going to maintain this package, the maintainer is you
<spayne> does the changelog need to say something like "rebuilt for ubuntu"?
<infinito> yes
<spayne> this is fun :)
* spayne is a new packager FYI
<spayne> if the debian version is kwin-decor-akdc-1.0a, would the ubuntu name be kwin-akdc_1.0-ubuntu1?
<siretart> ogra: my girlfriends want to deploy edubuntu in a school environment, and would like to test it. which release should I give her?
<spayne> i don't think i can do this
<siretart> ogra: preview or colony5 (if there is any?)
<spayne> i don't think i'm capable :-(
<spayne> what the hell goes into debian/rules
<ogra> siretart, the saturday release should be fine
<ogra> (if its still online)
<spayne> do i use the one from kwin-baghira (ubuntu) or the one from the Debian package?
<siretart> ogra: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/ this one?
<ogra> siretart, for every release after that, first look at the report.html in the download dir
<ogra> current is todays
<siretart> hm
<spayne> infinito: ping
<spayne> \sh: ping
<siretart> saturday is not available anymore
<ogra> siretart, does she want to demonstrate ltsp ?
<siretart> ogra: she wants to make a "zulassungsarbeit" about deploying it in a "realschule"
<ogra> s/demonstrate/test
<siretart> ogra: ltsp would be very fine if implementable in that classroom. we don't now yet what hardware they exactly have
<ogra> if its only for standalone machines, you should be fine with every release there...
<siretart> But I'm very confident, they have decent hardware
<ogra> (type "workstation" at ther CD bootprompt)
<siretart> okay. thanks
<siretart> If report.html is empty then everything is ok, I assume, yes?
<siretart> empty = no listed packges
<ogra> additionally, if you got a breezy CD around, just install edubuntu-desktop on breezy, its the same ;)
<siretart> okay. thanks
<ogra> yup
<ogra> funny... yesterdays ppc iso was 704 (and exploded) todays is 703... i didnt change anything ...
<ogra> (MB that is)
<siretart> yay for deterministic software :)
<spayne> is anyone willing to get a new guy some help?
<infinito> spacey: whats up?
<spayne> infinito: can you give me a hand?
<infinito> spacey: i'll try
<spayne> infinito: i'm not spacey, i'm spayne
<spayne> :)
<infinito> sorry
<infinito> autocompletion feature of xchat...
<spayne> infinito: i have kwin-akdc ready (I think) to give it a build
<spayne> infinito: what do i run? under pbuilder? or not?
<infinito> spayne: first try with dpkg-buildpackage
<infinito> spacey: if it works, try with pbuilder
<infinito> i did it again....
<infinito> sorry
<spayne> ;)
<spayne> hmm - it wants libqt3-i18n kdebase-dev (>= 3.2.2) kdelibs4-dev (>= 3.2.2) kwin (>= 3.2.2) but i don't want to install those (i'm running GNOME)
<infinito> if you want to build a kde package, you must have kde-dev libs installed
<infinito> or build on pbuilder, whatever u want
<spayne> but if i do it in pbuilder, do i need to install them on my system?
<spayne> sounds good
<infinito> install pbuilder and run pdebuild inside the dir
<spayne> thanls
<spayne> s/thanls/thanks
<spayne> pbuilder is just busy downloading stuff
<infinito> spayne: it takes a while
<spayne|> anyone around
<Yagisan> yep
<Yagisan> spayne|: What did you want ?
<spayne|> lookin' for BenC
<infinito> \sh: ping?
<StrikeForce> Can anyone tell me where the equivalent to boot.log is named in ubuntu?
<StrikeForce> not where but what I should say
<\sh> infinito: pong
<ogra_> StrikeForce, /var/log7dmesg
<ogra_> err s/7/\//
<infinito> \sh: altought gcilfms 5.3-3 doesn't appers on packages.debian.org, is installable on unstable/testing via apt
<StrikeForce> hmmm
<StrikeForce> can't find it
<\sh> infinito: I'm testing it just now
<StrikeForce> I can find the file just not the error
<infinito> \sh: oh, sorry
<spayne> \sh: i'm still having 'fun'
<StrikeForce> is anyone getting the error on alsa when it shuts down saying alsa stop is deprecated please use alsa-utils?
<\sh> infinito: ok...is building fine here
<infinito> \sh: great
<infinito> \sh: so it will get synced?
<\sh> 13:51 < \sh> elmo: please sync gcfilms_5.3-3 from debian unstable (universe that is) thx
* ajmitch finds it more reliable to send elmo email these days
<\sh> ajmitch: I requested two syncs today...so if it's not synced tomorrow ;) I'll write a mail ;)
* ajmitch just requested 1 sync today
<ajmitch> but I've got most of my debian packages needing updated & synced again soon
<infinito> \sh: thanks a lot
<infinito> \sh: just one more question, but we have to do when we release new versions? ask for sync again?
<\sh> no most of the untouched stuff from debian is synced automatically.
<\sh> infinito: for breezy: after release the universe is frozen..so new packages are going into dapper
<\sh> infinito: or updated debian source packages
<spayne> help! pbuilder --create fails EVERY SINGLE TIME and it takes ages to start again
<spayne> the error i get is:
<spayne> Failed to fetch cdrom:[Ubuntu 5.10 _Breezy Badger_ - Preview i386 (20050908)] /dists/breezy/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Please use apt-cdrom to make this CD-ROM recognized by APT. apt-get update cannot be used to add new CD-ROMs
<spayne> Failed to fetch cdrom:[Ubuntu 5.10 _Breezy Badger_ - Preview i386 (20050908)] /dists/breezy/restricted/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Please use apt-cdrom to make this CD-ROM recognized by APT. apt-get update cannot be used to add new CD-ROMs
<spayne> Reading package lists... Done
<spayne> E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
<spayne>  -> Aborting with an error
<spayne>  -> unmounting dev/pts filesystem
<spayne>  -> unmounting proc filesystem
<spayne>  -> cleaning the build env
<spayne>     -> removing directory /var/cache/pbuilder/build//8738 and its subdirectories
<StrikeForce> if I submit a bug do I get cc'd on any post backs to it?
<Treenaks> spayne: your sources.list is broken, it seems :)
<Treenaks> StrikeForce: yes
<dholbach> StrikeForce: yes
<StrikeForce> dholbach, you got my message the other day?
<\sh> cdrom is not correct in your sources list
<dholbach> StrikeForce: about istanbul? yes
<StrikeForce> dholbach, yesterday I think re istanbul?
<StrikeForce> dholbach, ok sweet no worries I'm liking it hey :) using all over the place its like my new toy
<spayne> i have just removed the cdrom
<dholbach> StrikeForce: where was it again? it's not in the archive yet
<\sh> spayne: u have to adjust the /etc/pbuilder/apt.conf/sources.list
<\sh> spayne: and recreate
<StrikeForce> dholbach, I got it from my email someone trying to get a sponsor
<StrikeForce> dholbach, its not there yet however if you look under the mailing list of debian-mentors it should be linked there
<spayne> \sh: what needs adjusting in  /etc/pbuilder/apt.conf/sources.list
<dholbach> StrikeForce: you don't happen to have the link?
<\sh> spayne: the cdrom line...it should be removed...
<StrikeForce> dholbach, I'm having a look for you now :)
<dholbach> super
<\sh> spayne: and input the correct network ones
<\sh> spayne: you followed the pbuilder howto on our wiki?
<spayne> yes
<StrikeForce> dholbach, http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2005/09/msg00480.html there ya go :)
<dholbach> merci beaucoup
<dholbach> StrikeForce: we have 0.1.1 too
<dholbach> StrikeForce: but i'll have a look at it, if it contains other patches or something
<ajmitch> dholbach: diff.gz seems to mostly be config.* mess :)
<ajmitch> +This manual page was written by Daniel Holbach dh@mailempfang.de for
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> I recognise that name from somewhere
<StrikeForce> dholbach, yup no worries just thought you should know about it I haven't had a look at it.  More feedback than anything else :)
<dholbach> thank you :)
<StrikeForce> afk I'm tired trying to figure where the bugs where today with totem :(
<spayne> YES! pbuilder is working now
<spayne> thanks \sh
<spayne> bollox
<spayne> it failed again
<spayne> touch: cannot touch `/var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp': No such file or directory
<infinito_away> spayne: rm /etc/pbuiler/apt.conf/99update-notifier, i think that solve it...
<\sh> spayne: /etc/pbuilder/apt.conf/ <- the 99update-notifier should be removed..it's written in the howto
<spayne> this is going to take me the REST of the day
<spayne> \sh: it ain't in PbuilderHowto on the wiki
<dholbach> spayne: it is
<spayne> just found it
<\sh> spayne: it is ;)
<spayne> is there any quick way
<spayne> or do i have to wait another 30 min for the things to download
<Nafallo> they should be cached locally now...
<\sh> spayne: in the beginning there were problems but after you achieved the goal to setup everything, your life is much better ;)
<spayne> so, i need to run pbuilder create --distribution breezy again?
<\sh> spayne: to be shure yes ;) to be kewl: run update
<\sh> run pbuilder update --overwrite-config
* Nafallo would rather be sure than kewl ;-)
<spayne> "I: Retrieving Packages"
<spayne> no, this is the long bit "I: Checking component main on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu..."
<\sh> spayne: u don't do the hoary builder right? You can go directly on breezy ,-)
<spayne> i know
<spayne> sudo pbuilder create --distribution breezy
<Nafallo> \sh: change the howto then ;-)
<spayne> shall i change it
<spayne> from hoary to breezy?
<Surak> Hello people
<\sh> spayne: no..leave it until release ;)
<spayne> \sh: i feel like i'm trying to win a loosing battle :-(
<dholbach> spayne: don't worry... it just takes a bit of time to get used to all of it
<\sh> spayne: nobody is perfect...I was also loosing a battle during my first days...believe me..
<dredg> morning
<dholbach> dredg: !!!
<dholbach> GOOD MORNING
<dredg> hey dholbach
<dholbach> long time no see
<spayne|> YES! pbuilder is working
<dholbach> man, how are you?
<dholbach> spayne: ROCK :)
<dredg> i'm good. really really good. started new job on monday
<dholbach> oh super!
<dholbach> PARTY! :)
<spayne|> bollox - i need 77mb of packages just to build a Kwin extension
<spayne|> \sh: why did you give me a hard one
<dredg> :)
<dholbach> spayne: it'll store those packages
<spayne|> and it will fail
<dholbach> spayne: so don't worry
<spayne|> will it? thanks goodness
<dredg> it's a scary place. i have no idea what the hell i'm doing :)
<dholbach> spayne: with sudo pbuilder update - you update the package list of pbuilder
<dholbach> dredg: that sounds perfectly normal
<dholbach> ;)
<dredg> :)
<dholbach> ok... i'm off for lunch
<dholbach> see you guys
<dredg> later
<StrikeForce> later
<Surak> see you
* dredg hmms at mlmmj
<dredg> current sid: 1.2.8, current breezy: 1.1.0 and a user (my boss) reports that the script to create a new list doesn't work
<dredg> and uh, the last sync appears to have been last december
<dredg> any objections to me requesting a sync?
<spayne|> i will be amazed if this works!
<\sh> dredg: u tested the package?
<\sh> dredg: dredg the new one i mean...1.2.8-7
<dredg> \sh: it has been tested
<spayne|> where do the packages go when built by pbuilder?
<tseng>  /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<spayne|> yeh! i haev soem working packages
<spayne|> \sh: :-)
<spayne|> tseng: yo
<tseng> hi.
<spayne|> how's it going?
<tseng> alright, thanks.
<spayne|> tseng: i'm trying to package some stuff for universe :-0
<tseng> cool
<\sh> spayne|: which one?
<spayne|> kwin-akdc
<spayne|> i need to lintain it
<\sh> kewl...
<spayne|> \sh: how do i add the -ubuntu1 think onto it?
<\sh> upload it to revu if you finished the package :)
<\sh> spayne|: in the changelog version ;)
<\sh> -0ubuntu1
<\sh> spayne|: u checked for new upstream sources?
<spayne|> i'm not a member of anything - does that matter
<spayne|> \sh: this is the latest IIRC
<dredg> \sh: it's an odd one, i'm not sure how it was skipped over during the syncs, but yes the debian upstream version works as expected
<spayne|> \sh: i am a Ubuntutite IIRC
<\sh> spayne|: so, upload to revu :)
<spayne|> lintain gave no errors :-)
<spayne|> nor does linda :-)
<spayne|> \sh: in the control file, does that make me the maintainer?
<spayne|> \sh: this is a weird pakage
<spayne|> \sh: the ftp site you have me has a link to http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=12330
<\sh> spayne|: sure...
<spayne|> \sh: which says the newest version is beta 3
<spayne|> \sh: but if i search for akdc on kde-look.org, there seem to be newer packages but by different people
<bddebian> Heya gang
<spayne|> bddebian: i made my first package :)
<\sh> spayne|: doesn't matter..1.0 was the version I catched now for kde 3.2
<spayne|> so is the 1.0 i got here fine?
<\sh> spayne|: I think so
<spayne|> \sh: it might not be too good - i hope i don't break revu or anything
<\sh> spayne|: if you're unsure, ask the upstream maintainer rafael -> email: jrch99 (at) cantv.net
<spayne|> i can't install it as non of my machines have KDE on
<\sh> spayne|: we will have a look at it :) don't worry...u have a signed key and uploaded to the keyservers? or do u have actually a revu account?
<spayne|> don't have a revu account
<spayne|> i had a GPG key (i think(
<\sh> spayne|: build a chroot of breezy and dchroot -c breezy -d in it...you can use your xserver for displaying ;)
<\sh> spayne|: ok..give me your gpg key id
<bddebian> spayne|: Awesome congrats!  You know more than me now! ;-)
<spayne|> i haven't used it for 5 months - before breezy so i don't know where it is
<\sh> spayne|: how did u sign the CoC?
<spayne|> with that key!
<\sh> spayne|: so u should have it...
<spayne|> i think it is 1024D/AE84E9F9 (from pgp.mit.edu)
<spayne|> i'm installing Seahorse to look at it
<\sh> spayne|: uh...u don't have the secret key for this anymore?
<spayne|> i have the feeling not
<spayne|> maybe i should make a new key....
<\sh> this is bad :(
<\sh> spayne|: so u need to sign it first :)
<spayne|> sign what?
<\sh> spayne|: the key
<spayne|> i will just make a new key
<\sh> it must be a signed key, to sign the CoC and
<\sh> spayne|: to have it in revu
<spayne|> \sh: how can i get it signed?
<\sh> spayne|: www.biglumber.com and search for your city..try to reach someone from the list there...who can sign your key :)
<\sh> spayne|: or do u know some debian / ubuntu devs in your area?
<spayne|> hmm - can i not sign it myself
<tseng> it should be easy in england
<Treenaks> spayne|: your key is self-signed.. I hope
<Treenaks> spayne|: but you need signatures from others to verify that you are who you say you are (this is the abridged version)
<\sh> spayne|: self signature it's as must, yes, but it's not enough :)
* spayne| thinks this is going to cause a problem
<\sh> it's a must ,)
<\sh> spayne|: where are you living?
<spayne|> Newcastle upon Tyne, North East of England
<\sh> Richard Patterson Newcastle Upon Tyne, England ?
<\sh> this guy you can try to reach
<\sh> http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?ev=34919;qh=2428
<spayne|> \sh: i'd be a bit wary to talking to be a person i have never met before :-)
<\sh> spayne|: well...this is the magic behind opensource
<\sh> spayne|: mail him, ask him to meet and sign...he is on this list, because he can help you
<\sh> spayne|: don't be shy
<spayne|> \sh: i'm not shy - just i'm only 16 and a bit wary of strangers
<\sh> spayne|: well...u have an elder brother/sister?
<spayne|> \sh: not alive
<Nafallo> he's not a stranger. he has a gpg-key :-).
<spayne|> \sh: does it have to be a GPG guy? i know plenty of people who know what they are talking about with computers (but not Linux)
<\sh> spayne|: it would be good to have a known signature...in the strong set
<spayne|> \sh: i understand
<janimo> bddebian, ping you a sylpheed user?
<bddebian> janimo: No sorry.  What's the deal?
<janimo> bddedbian, I saw you requested it to be synced from debian a while ago
<janimo> i think
<avalost> is this the place to request packages & whatnot?
<\sh> spayne|: http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?pk=DF1D7291AB36ABC10135D98B271EF927D05A60EA <- this is the guy
<bddebian> janimo: Yes
<janimo> so I thaught you could tell me whether it's any good ;)
<janimo> I am trying to think of the default mailer for xubuntu
<bddebian> Oh, no, sorry
<janimo> thunderbird or sylpheed
<janimo> ok thanks
<\sh> spayne|: and he is in the strong set
<\sh> http://keyserver.kjsl.com/~jharris/gpgwww.cgi?to=D05A60EA&from=C098EFA8 <- the way from my key to his key
<spayne> i might have a solution
<spayne> bbl
<bddebian> janimo: I use Mozilla Mail ;-P
<ivoks> hi guys
* ivoks loves you!
<Surak> :-)
<siretart> huhu ivoks :)
<ivoks> don't get any funny ideas :)
<lifeless> night all
<ivoks> bddebian: conflict with seb128? congrats :)
<spayne> dholbach: so, what is a notary?
<dholbach> not a lawyer, but somebody you can contact for more mundane things
<dholbach> he can make sure that you are you and give you piece of paper showing that
<dholbach> you need it, if you can't meet somebody in the real world with a key
<dholbach> but it's all on UnsignedGpgKeys
<spayne> who do i send it to (by post)?
<dholbach> would you please read that wiki page
<dholbach> it's on there, you have to talk to the CC
<spayne> i have read Solution #2
<dholbach> yes
<spayne> how do i talk to the CC?
<dholbach> community council
<dholbach> but did you check biglumber or the debian new maintainers site?
<spayne> yes and yes
<dholbach> where do you live? :)
<spayne> England, North East
<dholbach> and we have nobody there?
<spayne> correct
<dholbach> wow
<spayne> there is a person from biglumber but i'm not meeting somone i have never known before
<ogra_> spayne, but thats why he is on biglumber
<ogra_> he wants to meet people to sign...
<ogra_> even if he doesnt know you
<spayne> ogra_: i'm sorry but i won't go wander off (my mother won't let me) to someone i have never met
<dholbach> that's a problem then
<ogra_> spayne, not even to meet in a cafe ?
<dholbach> i guess you should take the issue to the community council
<ogra_> you dont need to visit him at home
<spayne> ogra_: i'm not completely stupid :)
<hubW> dholbach: so you would need to have my key signed?
<dredg> reminds me, i have a pile of keys to sign
<dholbach> hubW: yeah, if you want to be a MOTU and upload to the archive, you have to have a key signed
<dholbach> hubW: by somebody in the closely connected set
<ogra_> hubW, just pester jbailey ;)
<hubW> ogra_: or brad
<ogra_> yup
<dholbach> ogra_: he only signs keys whit people he has met twice :)
<ogra_> or wait for UBZ
<dholbach> ogra_: jbailey that is :)
<hubW> dholbach: so we meet at UBZ, I show you my ID and you sign my key?
<spayne> well, my package will have to stay here
<spayne> nothing can be done
<dholbach> hubW: yeah, and vice versa
<hubW> dholbach: brad is also in Mtl
<ogra_> dholbach, do you think meeting on IRC counts as 1 ? ;)
<dholbach> hubW: that will be brilliant
<hubW> dholbach: and I actuall had diner with brad
<dholbach> ogra_: no it doesnt, i asked him :)
<dholbach> hubW: bradb is fine too :)
<hubW> seb128, jdub and probably other people met me before
<ogra_> hubW, we'll have a keysigning party at UBZ.... it will catapult you directly in the top 1000 ;)
<Tonio-> hi everyone
* hubW should go to work
<dholbach> hubW: have a nice day
<hubW> I have some AbiWord bugs to fix and today is NDF
<hubW> my machine is faster there
<Tonio-> dholbach: hi, can I ask for a favor ?
<dholbach> fire away, Tonio-
<bddebian> Heya ivoks.  Congrats on pissing off someone??? :-)
<\sh> bddebian: ???
<siretart> dholbach: does UBZ count as 6 times (since 6 days?) ;)
<dholbach> no, UDU didn't
<dholbach> :)
<Tonio-> dholbach: Riddell is aparently interessted in seeing kdetv and wlassistant uploaded for breezy, he has revued them and asked me by email to see with guys here for revuing them.....
<Tonio-> so I'm asking ;)
<Riddell> Tonio-: \sh \sh \sh
<Tonio-> okay i'll ask him
<Tonio-> sorry Riddell ;)
<dholbach> Tonio-: if nobody did so, i#ll do it in the evning, alright?
<\sh> I'm going to do some review tonight...men...I have so much on my todo damn
<dholbach> \sh: don't worry, i'll do so
<Tonio-> dholbach: thanks, sorry I aparently missunderstood Riddell's email ;)
<\sh> going how now c u in some minutes :)
<Tonio-> \sh: thanks !
* ivoks back
<ogra_> Riddell, bless you :p
<ivoks> bddebian: no, that's normal for seb128 :)
<ivoks> yay!
<ivoks> from today, new bills from my company will say "Ubuntu Linux installation"
<ivoks> instead of "Linux installation"
<\sh> ivoks: rock :)
<\sh> ok...gone
<ivoks> ogra_: ! :)
<sivang> hello guys
<sivang> what's cracking?
<ogra_> ice ?
<sivang> hehe :)
<sivang> ogra_: can I be considered to MOTU based on my work in main? :-)
<ivoks> ogra_: how can i get on planet.ubuntu.com? i talked with jeff, i don't know if he put my atom...
<ogra_> ivoks, only jeff can ...
<ivoks> ogra_: ok
<ogra_> sivang, sure, but you still cant upload before UBZ and the TB needs to approve you
<ogra_> (or did you get your key signed by someone else ?)
<sivang> ogra_: no prob, I just want to know I'm in :)
<sivang> ogra_: not yet, we will have to wait to UBZ
<sivang> :-(
<ogra_> sivang, indeed youre in... youre aboard since i am... so your experience should be ok... just go on with stuff, fix packages and put them on revu ;)
<ivoks> so... udz...
<ivoks> maybe i even go to montreal :)
<bddebian> Just don't change any strings in .desktop files! ;-P
<Surak> :-D
<ivoks> ubz even :)
<sivang> ogra_: cool oli, will do. I just wish I had more time with my day job currently taking 12hrs of my day..
<ivoks> oh, that's tomorrow :)
<ivoks> damn... no chance for visa...
<ogra_> sivang, hey, that leaves 12h without job, great....
<sivang> ogra_: lol :)
<ogra_> guys forward your bugs to sivang, he has plenty of time ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<sivang> ogra_: what about gf, and house moving? (I am in a transition phase)
<sivang> :)
<sivang> ogra_: lolol
<ogra_> extend your day ?
<spayne> \sh: shall i continue doing those kwin themes?
<sivang> Hmm, let's see:
<sivang> from time import day
<sivang> day.Extend(daytime*12)
<ogra_> *g*
<sivang> ops, forgot ident :)
<ogra_> python power, yay
<sivang> ogra_: so, if you're a MOTU you still need to put packages for review at revu ?
<ogra_> sivang, the new stuff...
<Tonio-> dholbach: if you spend a little time on revu tonight, can you have a look at this -> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=316
<ogra_> and if you cant upload directly, someone needs to pick them up...
<spayne> well, thinks are lookign better
<Tonio-> supposed to have been uploaded by you, but I can't see it in universe....
<spayne> someone who i haven't spoken to for months is a debian developer
<spayne> said we can meet up at the weekend
<spayne> and he can sign my key :-)
<dholbach> Tonio-: will check
<dholbach> Tonio-: if you're in a hurry, ask Riddell - i'll check tonight
<Tonio-> dholbach: he asked me to see with you :) I assume he doesn't have any time for this....
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> i'll make time
<dholbach> tonight
<Riddell> well I just don't think I can see what's happened to it
<ogra_> Tonio-, \sh just said he'll care for your stuff tonight
<dholbach> i'll try to upload it again :)
<bddebian> Riddell:
<bddebian> bdefreese@bdubuntu1:~$ sudo apt-get install kdebindings
<bddebian> Reading package lists... Done
<bddebian> Building dependency tree... Done
<bddebian> Package kdebindings is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<bddebian> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
<bddebian> is only available from another source
<bddebian> E: Package kdebindings has no installation candidate
<janimo> ivoks, ubz is not not tomorrow, but in a month
<dredg> bah, there's no way i can make ubz
<ivoks> janimo: right :)
<Riddell> bddebian: spooky, let me look into it
<ivoks> hm, that changes everything :)
<dredg> i'm in california from 16th oct - 12th nov. i should make the next developer summit though
<janimo> Riddell, there's no hibernate/sleep option in kde logout dialog right?
<Riddell> janimo: that's right
<Riddell> bddebian: yep, there's no meta-package for kdebindings
* spayne is building his second kwin style package
<Riddell> spayne: cool, which one?
<spayne> Riddell: i'm a new Universe packager and \sh suggested i repackage some kwin styles from debian to ubuntu
<spayne> Riddel: although i'm actually a GNOME user ;-)
<bddebian> spayne: I can find you some stuff. :-)
<spayne> Riddell: i have done kwin-akdc and i'm doing kwin-activeheart
<dholbach> repackage?
<spayne> bddebian: there is NOTHING i can do until i get my GPG key signed
<bddebian> Doh :-(
<dholbach> spayne: that's not true
<spayne> dholbach: get the debian revision, rebrand it and build it on breezy
<spayne> dholbach: what's not true :)
<dholbach> you can get uploads sponsored like everybody else did in the beginning
<spayne> oh right :)
<dholbach> spayne: rebrand it?
<bddebian> spayne: Well don't feel bad, I can't do anything RIGHT.. ;-)
<Riddell> spayne: what needs rebranding?
<spayne> dholbach: change the name to -ubuntu1 and distro to breezy
<spayne> rebanding is the wrong name...
<spayne> sorry
<dholbach> spayne: that's not necessary
<Riddell> spayne: are these already in the debian archive?
<dholbach> we can just "sync" them from debian
<spayne> Riddel: no
<spayne> dholbach: no
<ogra_> oh, wow, the first post in -users of someone who recognized that unoff. backports is gone :)
<dholbach> ah, they're not in the debian archive
* dredg kills unofficial backports in the face
<dredg> --with-multideath
<Riddell> spayne: where are they from?
<spayne> Riddell: \sh told me to get them from http://debian.neo.pl/wfmh/pool/main/k/ (which is what i'm doing)
<ogra_> dredg, to late, jdong did it himself yesterday
<dholbach> dredg: i missed that "in the face" from you
<ogra_> only hoary-extras are left
<dholbach> dredg: good to have you back
<dredg> :)
<dredg> dholbach: you'd love it here
<spayne> Riddell: i am doing something wrong
<bddebian> spayne: You can test any/all gutenprint packages from Debian.  They would be NEW in our archive
* dredg can't wait til we get a pool table
<dholbach> haha :)
<spayne> bddebian: that's right
<Riddell> spayne: nope carry on, just make sure they're not already in debian or ubuntu (including in kdeartwork)
<spayne> dholbach: can you tell me about the sponsoring thing?
<dredg> dholbach: dual 24" TFT is the way of the future
<spayne> i don't even know if these work as i don't have KDE installed
<bddebian> Bah, where's slomo?? :-)
<Riddell> spayne: you will need to make sure they work
<dholbach> spayne: it's easy: you do a package or a package change, i (or any other MOTU) signs it and it goes to the archive
<spayne> Riddell: can you test them if i mail them to you?
<spayne> dholbach: sounds good
<Riddell> spayne: nope, you need to do that
* spayne wonders why the hell he is packaging KDE stuff!
<bddebian> spayne: Because KDE ROCKS ;-)
<dholbach> spayne: that's the problem about getting recruited :)
<spayne> bddebian: KDE user?
<bddebian> Even though I now run GNOME with Ubuntu and xfce4 on Debian ;-P
<bddebian> spayne: I used to be
<hubW> bddebian: I switched back to GNOME on Debian
<hubW> bddebian: xfce was getting annoying at some point
<hubW> bddebian: next time I try KDE
<ogra_> KDE is totally immature...
<ogra_> at least it was when i tried it last time ...
<ogra_> at 1.2
<bddebian> hubW: I haven't used the newer KDE lately but I used to really like it.  It's kind of a pig though :-)
* Lathiat laughs
<hubW> ogra_: 3.x. Each time I try I switch back
<hubW> but since people like it, I'm thinking there should be something
* hubW really goes to work this time
<hubW> c-ya
<ogra_> ciao hubW
<Riddell> ogra_: did gnome even exist back then?
<ogra_> Riddell, only the panel... half way :)
<bddebian> Riddell: IF you figure out kdebindings, can you take a quick peek at Malone #1784?
<Surak> ogra_: I tried that time also. Got back to os/2 and presentation manager :-)
<bddebian> Ugh
<ogra_> no, i must admit was lying i tried Riddell's hoary live CD once and its great :)
<ogra_> no reason to swith though :)
<bddebian> :-)
<Riddell> bddebian: what's to figure out about kdebindings?
<bddebian> Riddell: Didn't you say that there was no metapackage?
<Lathiat> is there a vim key to drop back an indentaation level
<Riddell> bddebian: yes, but you don't need that to fix that problem
<Riddell> bddebian: there's still a source package
<bddebian> For?
<Riddell> bddebian: for the kde ruby bindings
<Riddell> korundum or something they're called
<Riddell> but kdebindings is the source package
<dredg> dholbach: so, how have you been?
<bddebian> So I should try to build the kdebindings package?
<dholbach> dredg: busy :)
<dredg> :)
<dredg> how are you finding berlin?
<dholbach> dredg: i wrote my thesis, worked a lot, moved here and got working again :)
<dholbach> dredg: berlin is awesome
<dholbach> dredg: it's the place i always wanted to live in :)
<dredg> cool
<Riddell> bddebian: yes, kdebindings is the one to build.  I hope you have plenty of CPU
<bddebian> Hmm
<bddebian> Can I add a metapackage to this or does it need to be a seperate package in itself?
<dredg> dholbach: so, you're working and living the dream? :)
<dholbach> dredg: yes, i'm quite happy :)
<dholbach> dredg: do you have other worries than the pool table? :)
<dredg> dholbach: i have no idea what i'm supposed to be doing, and won't for about a month
<bddebian> Riddell: Can I add a metapackage inside the kdebindings source package?
<dredg> i'm off to california on training in a couple of weeks
<dholbach> dredg: any idea, what they will train you?
<Riddell> bddebian: is there any need for that?  do people really want to install all the kdebindings packages?
<dredg> dholbach: managing servers
<dredg> and whatever else needs to be done
<dholbach> ah cool
<dredg> yeah. i think i'm being assigned to the linux desktop team as well
<dredg> but i can work on that anyway whether i'm on the team or not
<dholbach> :-D
<dredg> it's..different. it's the biggest setup i've probably ever dealt with, and i really have no idea where to start :)
<nalioth> howdy y'all
<dholbach> hi nalioth
* nalioth was wanting to adopt a package to show ppc love
<dredg> all i've done so far is read pages of documentation and play foosball :)
<dholbach> ahah, sounds brilliant :)
<dredg> i have yet to do any *real* work, but i'll get there eventually. apparently it takes 6 months to get up to speed
<bddebian> Riddell: I dunno, you're the KDE guy ;-)  If not shouldn't we remove it?
<nalioth> bddebian: can you offer me some pointers?
<bddebian> Heya nalioth
<bddebian> Sorry I have disappeared from NuN :'-(
<nalioth> bddebian: yes, your seat of honor is now the porcelain one
<bddebian> nalioth: What would you like to know?
<bddebian> nalioth: Bah :-(
<nalioth> bddebian: would like to put my macs to work packaging something
<nalioth> i've noticed on hoary that some pkgs were available as binaries for x86 but not for ppc
<bddebian> nalioth: Yes, there are a ton of ppc packages that need love
<bddebian> nalioth: Did you look here:? http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/breezy.all.powerpc
<nalioth> bddebian: and what exactly is that?
<nalioth> holy cow
<bddebian> Shows the status of packages for PPC
<Riddell> bddebian: well people will want one binding but I don't think they'll want all the bindings
<bddebian> Riddell: It's OK to me, I just don't like b0rked packages sitting out there :-)
<nalioth> bddebian: do i take it i need to learn the debian process for packaging?
<bddebian> nalioth: Nahh :_)
<bddebian> nalioth: Yeah, you should probably at least read over the Debian New Maintainers Guide
<bddebian> nalioth: There are also some decent wiki pages on Ubuntu
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> I'm not sure I've read that document :-P
<Nafallo> what's in it? ;-)
<Surak> Nafallo: Me either :-)
<nalioth> Nafallo: miss july, and you've been lettin her get stale
<Nafallo> oh? a chick born in the same month as I? I already got a girlfriend though...
<spayne> well, the guy who i thought could help me has moved away from the North East
<Nafallo> spacey: just mail the lumberguy :-)
<spacey> :o
<spacey> tab properly dude :P
<bddebian> Nafallo: I didn't say I read it, I said HE should read it. ;-P
<Nafallo> spacey: just checking if you're awake ;-)
<spacey> ^_^
<spacey> i am :)
<Nafallo> spayne: just mail the lumberguy :-)
<Nafallo> bddebian: hehe
<spacey> just keeping you sharp Nafallo
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> me... sharp... tsss, we have ubuntu-mono for the sharp stuff :-P.
<Surak> hum... MAKEDEV.local is not here. weird.
<nalioth> bddebian: ty
<Surak> debian-policy recommends me I use MAKEDEV instead of mknod. However, MAKEDEV does not know how to create it, of course How should I proceed? Any hints?
<Riddell> bddebian: nothing borked about it
<dredg> screw policy, go with what works?
<Riddell> except that malone beastie obviously
<dredg> note: do not apply the above to inappropriate situations
<Surak> I just wanted to it lintian-clean... ok then.
<ogra_> Surak, you use neither....
<Surak> ogra_: huh?
<ogra_> ubuntu uses udev, please ask in -devel how to proceed with that... neither mknod nor MAKEDEV will work right
<Surak> ok
<ogra_> udev should get a rule for your module and the respective devices, but i have no idea how to handle lintian in this case
<bddebian> Riddell: The fact that it exists but you can't install it is not a problem?
<Surak> time to lunch
<Riddell> bddebian: no.  you can install all the packages fine, there just happens not to be a meta-package
<bddebian> Riddell: Exactly :-)
<bddebian> Ack, all that time and I screwed up the location of Qt.rb :-(
<bddebian> Riddell: What else do I need to do besides adding Qt.rb in libqt0-ruby1.8.install ?
<Riddell> bddebian: build it and make sure it works :)
<bddebian> Riddell: It doesn't build
<bddebian> dh_install --list-missing
<bddebian> cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp/usr/local/lib/site_ruby/1.8/Qt/Qt.rb': No such file or directory
<Riddell> bddebian: where is Qt.rb ?
<bddebian> ./qtruby/rubylib/qtruby/lib/Qt.rb
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> that elmo answer is submitted to bash.org ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<Riddell> bddebian: but Qt.rb isn't installed anywhere?
<Riddell> inside debian/tmp
<bddebian> Riddell: I added this line to .install:  debian/tmp/usr/local/lib/site_ruby/1.8/Qt/Qt.rb
<Riddell> bddebian: and is that where Qt.rb is?
<bddebian> That's where I want to put it no?
<bddebian> Riddell: SOrry I know these are dumb questions but I'm used to using install -d and install -m  so I don't know how the .install files work
<Riddell> bddebian: that's where make install  should install it to
<Riddell> but I suspect it doesn't for some reason
<Riddell> in which case it's probably ok to just install it by hand in debian/rules
<bddebian> This is nuts, I don't see how it picks up qtruby.rb either...
<Riddell> bddebian: don't see how what picks it up?
<Mithrandir> hub_: hiya, you're the guy blogging about digital photography on planet.gnome, right?
<hub_> Mithrandir: myself
<Mithrandir> hub_: do you have any thoughts on the DNG format from Adobe and if it's going to be adopted by camera manufacturers?
<hub_> some start adopting it
<hub_> but I have no idea if the major 2, Nikon and Canon will
<hub_> they need to be educated
<hub_> for them releasing spec of the format is revoking their IP rights
<hub_> and actually there might be an Adobe licensing problem with DNG
<Mithrandir> yeah.. I'm thinking about getting a Nikon SLR, but it would be nice if it actually supported a free format rather than having to be reverse engineered
<Mithrandir> oh?  what kind of problem?  (I haven't read the spec, I just became aware of the existence)
<hub_> patent
<hub_> copyright and other trash
<Mithrandir> oh, suckage :-(
<Mithrandir> they should so make it free&open
<hub_> PDF is not free
<hub_> it is "fully disclosed"
<Mithrandir> aiui, people are disagreeing on that fact?
<hub_> DNG is a bit similar
<hub_> Mithrandir: btw for Nikon or Canon DSLR, dcraw follow
<hub_> Mithrandir: and I personnaly never shoot RAW files
<hub_> almost never
<Mithrandir> yup, I'm aware of that.
<Mithrandir> why not?  File size?
<hub_> I don;t have the time to post process them
<hub_> hand tuned
<hub_> btw someone should sync ufraw from debian to universe
<Mithrandir> true, but doing it automatically is ok-ish for the most part and just having the raw data can be useful.
<hub_> I used to do raw + jpeg at one point
<hub_> gotta grab lunch. bb in a few
<Mithrandir> yeah, I gotta eat some dinner
* \sh 's eating a nice tonno pizza
<\sh> delicious and healthy *sigh*
<ogra_> dolphins ?
<\sh> sure..the name of the pizza is flipper
<Nafallo> lol
<ogra_> gah
<bddebian> Riddell: From same .install file: debian/tmp/usr/local/lib/site_ruby/1.8/Qt/qtruby.rb
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<Riddell> bddebian: make install will install qtruby.rb but for some reason it doesn't install Qt.rb
<Riddell> so if Qt.rb is needed you probably have to install that by hand or fix the build system
<crimsun> heya bddebian
<dholbach> Riddell: which packages were up for review for me?
<dholbach> i forgot
<crimsun> heya Riddell, dholbach
<dholbach> bon soir, daniel
<dholbach> Riddell: kdetv and wlassistant?
<janimo> hey crimsun
<dholbach> hey jani
<dholbach> seems we have the old crew together again :)))
<janimo> hey dholbach
<crimsun> heya jani :)
<janimo> yep :)
<dholbach> so how about some extreme universe fixing? ;)
<janimo> the crew which starts lurking 2 weeks before release ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<\sh> grmpf
* bddebian has a list!! ;-)
<janimo> of course crimsun was here all along
<dholbach> bddebian: how is the state of our various lists?
<\sh> need to get wpa-psk running on this laptop
<bddebian> dholbach: UniverseUnmetDeps needs love :-)
<dholbach> bddebian: how many of those need love?
<janimo> dholbach, the motutodo wiki seemed a bit outdated two days ago
<bddebian> dholbach: The FIXME list :-)
<dholbach> janimo: so you decided we had it all sorted out? :-p
<janimo> translations are all done?
<janimo> yep :)
<janimo> conveniently
<dholbach> haha
<janimo> now I am finally trying to do some xfce stuff again
<janimo> but hope to do some real motu work too
<crimsun> we have a couple of open Xfce issues in malone
<janimo> or I won't deserve to be part of it anymore
<janimo> crimsun, I am looking at those right now
<dholbach> janimo: come one... you do care
<crimsun> ok
<dholbach> janimo: we dont have a trace of many others at the moment
<janimo> dholbach, I do I just have a hard time organizing my time and home directory :)
<dholbach> janimo: don't ask about mine
<janimo> both of which to inneficiency, they lead
<janimo> crimsun does xfmedia work for you?
<janimo> it hangs on opening an avi here, needs to be killed
<janimo> the same with the older version not just todays upload
<crimsun> ack
<crimsun> that can't be good
<janimo> hmm another one opens though
<bddebian> Hey, YOU can't have him, there's things to do!! :-)
<janimo> prolly codecs missing but no graceful error message
<crimsun> d'oh, no .avi. /me googles
<dholbach> Riddell: pwmanager uploaded again - we'll see what happens
<bddebian> Anyone know the status of myth plugins?
<janimo> crimsun, hmm npw it works with the original avi too
<janimo> so it's not that
<janimo> I pressed play maybe w/o anything in the playlist?
<janimo> I'll reproduce it for sure since it happened two times so far
<janimo> you took it from benny?I did not see it in debian
<crimsun> janimo, upstream
<janimo> I wonder why the xfce-deb guys did not package it yet
<crimsun> ugh, it does look like a codec error
<bddebian> Egads, scrubus is a main package
<bddebian> Err scribus
<crimsun> though the test.avi I used doesn't play in totem-xine either ;)
<janimo> that's a releif
<janimo> relief
<crimsun> we'll need to bug kelnos, the developer, to fix it :)
<janimo> cool :) will you?
<crimsun> yep
<janimo> so it's a xine bug?
<janimo> butmine was something else since now I can play those avis
<crimsun> I think it's at least an xfmedia bug, since not finding a suitable codec should not crash the app
<janimo> right
<janimo> are you still using xfce?
<crimsun> on one desktop, but it's running Warty (!)
<janimo> :)
<janimo> with rox?
<crimsun> yep
<crimsun> eek, I need to fix the broken icon in xfmedia.desktop
<janimo> is that just the filemanager or provides desktop icons too?
<crimsun> it can do both, but we have it set by default to just be the file manager
<janimo> we - being debian rox maintainers?
<crimsun> yeah, and "us", too :)
<janimo> I am wondering whether to provide such thing with xubuntu, and if so rox or idesk or is there something else.
<crimsun> there's iconbox or "little star"
<janimo> oh I forgot :) I think I did not really touch rox though
<janimo> now that I never used or understood what it's for, I may have to take a look
<crimsun> it's probably better to just use xfdesktop
<crimsun> we'll want to use thunar for a "complete" Xfce desktop
<crimsun> (more than likely?)
<crimsun> but until then, xffm I think
<janimo> does xfdesktop do icons on the desktop ?
<crimsun> nope, but we'll still want it present
<crimsun> (as opposed to using rox-filer's pinboard+some other solution)
<bddebian> Grr, I'm getting nothing done today.. :-(
<Burgundavia> bddebian, thanks for all the .desktop fixes
<bddebian> Burgundavia: Well... :-)
<bddebian> Apparently I screwed that up too :-)
<bddebian> Shouldn't this work?:
<bddebian>         install -d $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/local/lib/site_ruby/1.8/Qt
<bddebian>         install -m 644 qtruby/rubylib/qtruby/lib/Qt.rb $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/local/lib/site_ruby/1.8/Qt
<dholbach> Riddell: reviewed both of them
<crimsun> -> work
<bddebian> WTF? dh_install: usr/local/lib/site_ruby/1.8/Qt.rb exists in debian/tmp but is not installed to anywhere
<\sh> bddebian: missing an entry in the .install files?
<bddebian> It's there.  But it seems to be working anyway so fsck it ;-)
<\sh> yes..
<\sh> ssh -X 192.168.0.101
<\sh> evolution
<\sh> and my evolution from the nc6000 is coming via wifi to my r200
<\sh> rock
<bddebian> Nice
<bddebian> I have to try x-forwarding one of these days
<spayne> yo
<spayne> i made contact with the guy (Richard) to sign my key
<\sh> spayne: and?
<spayne> we are arranging to meet at a cafe in Newcastle
<ogra_> \sh, hey, you just discovered the magic of our ltsp ;)
<spayne> \sh: when my packages are uploaded, does that make me a MOTU or Universe Maintainer
<spayne> \sh: is there a difference?
<\sh> spayne: it makes u a contributor...and if you document your work on your wiki page we will make u a motu :)
<\sh> i wonder how big castle greyscull is in reality ,)
* bddebian still wonders how he became an MOTU ;-)
<bddebian> spayne: Nice btw
<\sh> ogra_: well...I'm fascinated of the wifi stuff...i never realized how nice it is to work from bed
<\sh> ogra_: and with this r200 on my hip...well..it's nothing :) wpa works now...
<ogra_> heh
<\sh> only my di-524 is crap
<\sh> i will replace it with a linksys anyways
<bddebian> \sh: Did you have to tweak sshd_config for that?
<\sh> bddebian: no...ssh -X <destinatio>
<\sh> +n
<bddebian> Ohh, that ain't gonna work on this machine ;-)
<\sh> bddebian: i think ubuntus x11_forwarding in sshd_config is default
<ogra_> yup
<bddebian> Well putty on Windows doesn't seem to like it ;-P
<\sh> bddebian: u can set this option in the settings
<tseng> putty on windows cant do much with X11 forwarding if there is no X server
<bddebian> Yeah, I just tried it :-)
<\sh> bddebian: and running xfree86 via cygwin this works
<tseng> do you have xming?
<bddebian> tseng: Aye, that's why I said that :-)
<tseng> ugh, cygwin is awful
<bddebian> No, does xming work or do I need cygwin?
<tseng> xming is great
<\sh> tseng: it works
<tseng> cygwin is the same software horrribly packaged
<\sh> tseng: redhat ;)
<tseng> right
<bddebian> tseng: Got a url for xming?
<tseng> http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Xming
<spayne> \sh: thanks :-)
<bddebian> tseng: Awesome, thx, I'm going to try that
<spayne> i'm downloading Kubuntu so i can test those packages
<sistpoty> hi folks
<sistpoty> ping lamont
<lamont> ack
<sistpoty> lamont: do the buildds use compiler-cache or s.th. similar?
<lamont> ccache, and some additional love
<sistpoty> (I'm just wondering for http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/r/rscheme/0.7.3.4.b1-1ubuntu1/rscheme_0.7.3.4.b1-1ubuntu1_20050923-2238-i386-failed.gz, which ftbfs on buildd, but builds on pbuilder
<sistpoty> +)
<sistpoty> is there a way to turn this off?
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<lamont> sistpoty: how very interesting
<sistpoty> lamont: I tried to valgrind/electric-fence this, but couldn't reproduce the segfault
<janimo> markuman,ping
<markuman> janimo: pong
<janimo> I am looking at the xfce bugs on malone these days
<janimo> so will get to the mousepad issue too
<janimo> does it happen only in gnome?
<lamont> sistpoty: it's not forcing any compiler options, so it's either ccache, which would be strange, or something in the app.
<janimo> as for the taskmanager got an url to the original?
<janimo> I'll try to review that too
<markuman> janimo, with xfce4, ive got no problems with mousepad
<janimo> hmm maybe it's a mousepad bug not ours?
<janimo> anyway there's a mousepad 0.3.0 released and we (and debian) are at 0.2.2
* lamont must run out for a couple hours
<janimo> maybe that should be looked into as well
<markuman> janimo, do you mean http://download.berlios.de/xfce-goodies/xfce4-taskmanager-0.3.1.tar.gz ?
<janimo> yep thanks
<janimo> so it's part of xfce4 goodies?
<markuman> janimo, yes. a new one!
<janimo> I wonder why it isn't in debian, it is very new?
<markuman> janimo, imho yes. i dont find it in debian too.
<janimo> if you want to get involved with xubuntu a good idea is to subscribe to the xfce debian pkg list as well so we can collaborate
<janimo> it's better if we sync packages from debian than to make our own.Even if we make them we shoudl try getting them in there if possible
<markuman> janimo, ok
<janimo> do you want to look into the mousepad problem?i.e contact upstream, try the new version from svn (or wherever it;s kept etc)?
<markuman> janimo: you mean pkg-xfce.alioth.debian.org
<janimo> exactly
<janimo> if it's not too boring
<markuman> janimo, i will try it with mousepad
<janimo> I'll also check if it behaves the same here with gnome
<janimo> markuman, thanks great, keep malone updated if you find something
<markuman> janimo, ok thx
<bddebian> Hmm, what else can I break today?
<bddebian> Heya slomo
<slomo> hi bddebian :)
<bddebian> slomo: How are you forcing builds with gcc-3.4?  Do you just CC=gcc-3.4?
<sistpoty> hi slomo
<slomo> bddebian: depends on the package's buildsystem... but for autofoo CC=gcc-3.4 (and maybe CXX=g++-3.4) would do it
<\sh> hmm...is build-dep on gcc-3.4 not enough?
<bddebian> Usually not
<\sh> most of the time yes..
<\sh> hmm..
<slomo> \sh: hmm nope
<\sh> then the source was very intelligent :)
<slomo> yes... it could read your thoughts ;)
<bddebian> Or that's the only gcc you had installed? ;-)
<slomo> built-essential contains gcc 4.0
<\sh> hmmmm....i have to check my past packages with gcc-3.4 first...and I don't say anything anymore without my lawyer
<\sh> time to go to bed anyways....
<bddebian> Heh.  Gnight \sh
<slomo> gn8 \sh :)
<\sh> na...first a cigarette...and I don't need to go to bed...i need to switch off the laptop :)
<sistpoty> gn8 \sh
<bddebian> Ack, back up to 500 bugs.. :-(
<spayne> which is 500 bugs?
<bddebian> Malone
<bddebian> We got it down to like 498 or so last night
<\sh> ok..night folks...cu tomorrow from office..
<janimo> anybody using the ubuntu.com addresses for sending?
<bddebian> wb dholbach
<dholbach> re :)
<sistpoty> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi sistpoty
<slomo> hi dholbach
<dholbach> wow, the complete crew is here :)
<bddebian> Heh
<tseng> hi dholbach
* Riddell sad cos he's not in the crew
<dholbach> come on Riddell, of course you're in the crew :)
<bddebian> Riddell: And I am? ;-)  BTW, thanks for telling me kdebindings was in main.. ;-P
<Riddell> bddebian: did you upload?
<bddebian> REJECTED :-)
<dholbach> guys... the weather doesn't seem good for your mood :)
<bddebian> I didn't even look.. :-(
<Riddell> bddebian: I kinday assumed you would have noticed that, sorry
<bddebian> Riddell: I should have, I was joking
<Riddell> bddebian: I'll happily upload it for you
<bddebian> Riddell: I'll post a debdiff on that bug when I get home
<Riddell> cool
<dholbach> Riddell: reviewed the 2 thingies, uploaded pwmanager, but i daresay there was no sign of it anywhere yet, was there?
<sistpoty> slomo: did you test hunit already?
<bddebian> dholbach: Well I think I've alienated ALL of -devel now ;-P
<Riddell> no pwmanager in breezy-changes
<Riddell> dholbach: did you get a NEW or anything?
<dholbach> nope
<Riddell> dholbach: maybe it's a package that's been deleted from the debian/ubuntu archives, I've had that before
<dholbach> oh nice
<slomo> sistpoty: sure... breaked because of something ;) hmake i believe
<dholbach> tonio- should ask elmo :)
<sistpoty> slomo: after hmake was uploaded, a simple rebuild should suffice (i tested this), but on installing i got some postinst error
<sistpoty> slomo: however after i built it the second time w.o. changes, and installing it, the error was gone, so I'm a bit clueless on this
<slomo> sistpoty: hmm... and a third time did what? ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: did not try it yet ;)
<bddebian> Time to head home, later folks
<sistpoty> later bddebian
<ajmitch> morning all
<ajmitch> ah, bddebian just left
<tseng> its ok
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<tseng> i alreadycut off a finger
<ajmitch> you didn't tell him that seb128 was out for blood?
<tseng> oh
<tseng> seb cut off a hand
<ajmitch> ok
<tseng> however i dont see him changing anything back
<slomo> hm? what are you talking about? ;)
<ajmitch> bddebian's uploads yesterday
<slomo> the desktop files?
* ajmitch spots *another* beagle bug in the unassigned list
<ajmitch> except this bug is not about mem usage
<tseng> ajmitch: if its about memory
<tseng> ajmitch: ill need to borrow a hatchet
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/beagle/+bug/2660
<tseng> oh thats what i wanted you to test
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> because I can't really use beagle at the moment
<tseng> thats a startup issue
<ajmitch> I haven't started frmo the command line to check
<tseng> withint a few seconds
<tseng> dinner, bbl
<sistpoty> later tseng
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-04
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<dholbach> good night guys
<dholbach> ROCK ON
<tseng> bye dholbach
<ajmitch> night dholbach
<slomo> gn8 dholbach
<h8red> so anyone here have a motu traveler?
<ajmitch> h8red: ?
<h8red> yes?
<slomo> what is a motu traveler?
<h8red> haha, sorry, looked before i leaped, thought this was for motu(mark of the unicorn) audio products
<ajmitch> hah no :)
<ogra_> we only deal with he-man and the like ;)
<tseng> my sword is badass
<tseng> as is the wind glider
<slomo> ok... gn8 everybody :)
<tseng> bye
<neighborlee> how long does it usually  take to hear back from having proposed oneself for membership  at ubuntu launchpad  ??
<ajmitch> neighborlee: they're considered at the next CC meeting
<ajmitch> based on whether you've contributed over a period of time, etc
<neighborlee> yes I know about that already
<neighborlee> okay  so what happens if you miss a meeting ...do they decicde anyway or just skip you over and let you come to next one ?
<neighborlee> I was held up last night at clients house and missed it ;(...
<ajmitch> usually skipped to the next meeting
<neighborlee> ok thdx
<neighborlee> thx
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> hi there bddebian.  What's new?
<bddebian> Causing trouble as always :-)
<crimsun> I love it when the route to my pbuilder just evaporates
<bddebian> You?
<crimsun> just _love_ it
<bddebian> Heh
<tritium> bddebian, just got home from work
<tritium> crimsun, how did that happen?
<crimsun> sbc sucks.
<tritium> You're logged into your chroot remotely?
<crimsun> Well, pbuilder. I don't have enough space on my computer to run a pbuilder
<crimsun> got a friend to throw together some amd64 boxes coloc'ed, but the route's through sbc. And sbc has been sucking today.
<tritium> interesting setup
<bddebian> Riddell: ping?
<Riddell> bddebian: yo
<bddebian> Riddell: I put up a debdiff for 1784.  Though I just noticed there is another bug posted against kdebindings :-(
<Riddell> bddebian: what's the other beastie?
<bddebian> 2048
<bddebian> Heya bmonty_laptop
<crimsun> the long road to better ppc multimedia support  *sigh*
<bddebian> :-)
<bmonty_laptop> hi bddebian
<ajmitch> afternoon
<crimsun> 'afternoon
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> heah bddebian, do know if anything is up with getting libghemical from Debian?
<bddebian> LaserJock: No.  I've been meaning to ask you about that
<LaserJock> well, I made a Breezy package that has mopac7 built in but we don't have mopac7
<LaserJock> I figured that it would be better to do one thing at a time
<LaserJock> first get libghemical from Debian, and then add my stuff, but I don't know
<LaserJock> bddebian: I also don't know about  mozilla-locale-zh-tw
<bddebian> LaserJock: I think it should be morgued too
<LaserJock> me too
<LaserJock> I was able to find some .xpi files on the mozilla ftp site for some newer versions of mozilla but it seems pretty touch and go and I don't think that Debian is going to fix it either
<LaserJock> should I put them in MorgueCandidates or do you want to do that?
<bddebian> I've kinda given up on morgues :-)
<LaserJock> BTW, what is the process for that?
<bddebian> Ask elmo
<LaserJock> I looked at http://morgue.ubuntu.com/ and I don't see anything since April
<LaserJock> well, I will at least update the wiki so it is documented somewhere that they aren't any good
<hubW> cdbs question
<hubW> with perl
<ivoks> hello
<crimsun> 'lo
* ivoks needs help :)
<ajmitch> with?
<ivoks> dpatch+cdbs
<ajmitch> what's the problem?
<ivoks> i include dpatch.mk
<ivoks> but i get no rule to make target unpatch
<ajmitch> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/dpatch.mk ?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> before makefile.mk
<ajmitch> hm
<ivoks> and after debhelper.mk
<ajmitch> I don't know if order matters, but try putting it last :)
<ivoks> after make?
<ivoks> hm...
<ajmitch> yes
<ivoks> same thing
<ajmitch> fun
<ivoks> maybe i;m doing something wrong
<ivoks> i include dpatch
<ajmitch> probably :)
<ivoks> and then i do dpatch-edit
<ivoks> right?
<ajmitch> dpatch is in build-depends?
<ivoks> that's like with debhelper
<ivoks> ajmitch: no :)
<ajmitch> why not?
<ivoks> that shouldn't be a problem for editing patch
<ivoks> only for building
<ajmitch> but you still need it installed :)
<ivoks> it is
<ajmitch> which you probably do
<ajmitch> can you show me what you're working on?
<ivoks> transport
<ajmitch> I mean the files
<ivoks> ah, just rename :)
* ajmitch sighs
<ivoks> accutally, i'm trying to figure out cdbs
<ajmitch> ivoks: can you put this online somewhere so I can look then?
<ivoks> ajmitch: apt-get source teleport :)
<ivoks> ajmitch: i didn't do anything yet :)
<ajmitch> ok..
<ivoks> just added dpatch.mk
<ajmitch> so teleport, not transport..
<ivoks> sorry, teleport... not transport
<ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=284231
<ivoks> ah, nice :)
<ajmitch> so you need a line like.. unpatch: deapply-dpatches
<ivoks> yeah
<ajmitch> and it works easily
* ajmitch knew he'd heard this problem before
<ivoks> thanks
<ajmitch> glad to help
<ivoks> so, what's the best thing to do when we have two packages providing two different icons with same name?
<ajmitch> rename one
<ivoks> Teleport.png :)
<ajmitch> also owned by..?
<ivoks> gnome-games-data
<ivoks> it's teleport.png
<ivoks> both are teleport...
<ajmitch> so they're different names?
<ajmitch> if one has capital
<ivoks> no, Teleport was suggestion :)
<ajmitch> ok..
<ajmitch> so rename it if you want :)
<ajmitch> binary-fixup/teleport:
<ajmitch>   mv debian/teleport/usr/share/pixmaps/teleport.png debian/teleport/usr/share/pixmaps/Teleport.png
<ajmitch> try that :)
<ivoks> binary-fixup?
<ajmitch> or binary-install might be better
<ajmitch> should be binary-install/teleport::
<ajmitch> to add it to the bottom of that rule in debhelper.mk
<ivoks> yeah... but..
<ivoks> if you checkout pixmaps...
<ivoks> there isn't any name with capital letter :)
<ajmitch> so rename it to something else!
<ajmitch> :)
<ivoks> i know
<ajmitch> teleport_really_this_is_teleport_not_the_gnome_one_honest.png
<ajmitch> and change the .desktop file to suit
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> and menu
<ivoks> i will do this with dpatch
<ivoks> since .desktop is in the source
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> have fun
<ivoks> thanks
<ivoks> urgh... :)
<ajmitch> ivoks: don't forget 00list ;)
<ajmitch> bbl
<dholbach> good morning
<ivoks> eh :)
<ivoks> ajmitch: i didn't
<dholbach> hey ivoks :)
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> poker3d suggests package that doesn't exists
<dholbach> which one?
<ivoks> gaim-poker3d
<dholbach> then get  rid of it
<dholbach> we might sync it from debian next time
<dholbach> or sync if, if it's there
<dholbach> both ways are acceptable
<ivoks> it's not :)
<dholbach> ouch
<dholbach> well then... :)
<ivoks> ok, will remove that suggestion :)
<siretart> morning
<dholbach> hey reinhard
<siretart> whops. houston, we have a problem
<siretart> something BAD happened to the revu keyring.. some newer keys need to be readded. sorry
<crimsun> like mine?
<siretart> 215:pub  1024D/C88ABDA3 2003-06-23 Daniel T. Chen (new) <crimsun@fungus.sh.nu>
<siretart> its there
<crimsun> k
<siretart> tonios key for example, I readded him now
<ivoks> crap :)
<ivoks> WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!
<\sh> wrote elmo an email with the sync requests from yesterday :)
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> guys...dlink wlan router + wpa + dhcp +linux ==> doesn't work at all
<\sh> so...w8ing for linksys
<dholbach> \sh: me too
<dholbach> k&m elektronik is ... as tsteng would say "completely shithouse"
<dholbach> tseng
<\sh> dholbach: funny thing..wpa auth+enc works...but no dhcp ip address
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ajmitch> \sh: strange
<\sh> dholbach: wpa auth+enc works + static ip address -> internet but no internal routing
<dholbach> ouch
<\sh> so i can't reach wired clients or others
<ajmitch> \sh: I use wpa+dhcp with an airport AP & it works nicely :)
<\sh> without any enc it works flawlessly
<ajmitch> what enc are you using?
<\sh> ajmitch: well...the problems are known
<\sh> wpa-psk and tkip
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> same as I have with the airport
<ajmitch> so I guess d-link are crap :)
<\sh> ajmitch: wpa-cli status tells me the auth is established
<ajmitch> using wpa_supplicant?
<\sh> ajmitch: yepp
<ajmitch> hey Treenaks
<\sh> ajmitch: tried the one in ubuntu 0.4.2 and the new one...0.4.4 from debian
<Treenaks> hey
<ajmitch> sistpoty: you sent MOTU minutes out?
<Treenaks> yay country-wide ADSL outage...
<\sh> oh...I have to order the sync for wpasupplicant as well :)
<ajmitch> Treenaks: sounds like NZ ;)
<ajmitch> why is a sync needed at this point?
<ajmitch> hi jsgotangco
<Treenaks> ajmitch: this is one of the 3 telcos going down..
<ajmitch> we just have 1 DSL provider for the country
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, seriously?
<\sh> ajmitch: because it fixes some problems with madwifi drivers
<sistpoty> anyone to review c2hs (http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/c2hs/)?
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: of course
<ajmitch> \sh: ah ok
<ajmitch> \sh: I've got madwifi here to test also, if you need it :)
<\sh> ajmitch: http://hostap.epitest.fi/ :)
<\sh> ajmitch: I'm using madwifi with the atheros chipset on this r200
<\sh> laptop
<ajmitch> and there's an old prism2 card around somewhere...
<ajmitch> with really old firmware :)
<ajmitch> at least 4 computers in this house have wifi
<ajmitch> 4 laptops, that is :)
<\sh> ajmitch: I tried an old prism chipset (11mbit stuff) with wpa...doesn't work ;)
<ajmitch> yeah, this card has too old firmware for wpa
* ajmitch checks the bug list for today
<sistpoty> ajmitch: i sent the motu minutes to you
<sistpoty> ajmitch: to @gnu.org address
<ajmitch> sistpoty: yes, and I said they were good :)
<ajmitch> I was hoping you'd send them out after that :)
<sistpoty> hehe, I actually thought you were sending these in ;)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: ok, I'll send them to the devel list
<sistpoty> ajmitch: anything else to care for... wiki?
<ajmitch> yes please
<sistpoty> I go for it ;)
<ajmitch> thanks
<sistpoty> no problem
<ajmitch> \sh: did you get anywhere with gnome-launch-box ?
<dholbach> get rid of that crap :)
<dholbach> it was the result of a weekend hack session :)
<dholbach> (afaik and nobody touched it afterwards)
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> people stil hack it :)
<ajmitch> http://developer.imendio.com/svn/gnome-launch-box/trunk/ChangeLog
<ajmitch> it's https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/gnome-launch-box/+bug/2097
<dholbach> wow
<dholbach> i'm impressed
<ajmitch> unmet dep on libcamel1.2-3, should be rebuilt but FTBFS
<Tonio-> hi everyone
<dholbach> maybe an libevo* patch from upstream
<dholbach> hey Tonio-
<dholbach> Tonio-: reviewed your packages
<Tonio-> dholbach: I have a little question concerning your yesterday's revuing on kdetv....
<Tonio-> I've seen but there are things I don't understand
<dholbach> ok
<Tonio-> concerning the diff with orig tarball for wlassistant, the upstream apparently modifed the tarball without changing the version number (grrr)
<dholbach> OUCH
<dholbach> maybe you want to try their new tarball
<dholbach> maybe they did something important
<Tonio-> I did and that's okay, I reuploaded it with some changes...
<Tonio-> but concerning kdetv, you would suggest to keep the lintian's errors ?
<Tonio-> instead of overriding ?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> i think jbailey's comment is quite reasonable
<dholbach> but you can ask for more advice on it
<Tonio-> but........... would you give a YES to a deb that gives lintian error ? ^_
<dholbach> #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-motu should have a couple of answers to it
<dholbach> i'd split it out, but that's just my 2ct
<Tonio-> well I know that Riddell overrides sometime (he did for katapult for example)
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> that's his choice
<dholbach> :)
<Tonio-> yep ;)
<Tonio-> but where do you see binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath for kdetv ?
<dholbach> i build it in pbuilder (on amd64) and get that message by lintian -i
<Tonio-> tested with "lintian -I" and nothing for me
<dholbach> Tonio-: about pwmanager: i heard that the package was rejected 3 times now - i have no clue why, we should ask elmo about it
<dholbach> maybe that's an ssue on amd64 *shrug*
<Riddell> dholbach: if you uploaded it shouldn't you get the reject message?
<Tonio-> dholbach: certainly yes, I can you the log if you want ;)
<dholbach> Riddell: i signed Tonio-'s upload
<dholbach> Tonio-: log?
<Tonio-> dholbach: lintian's response if you prefer ;)
<Tonio-> Riddell: concerning binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath, would you suggest to override or let the errors ?
<Riddell> Tonio-: let the error since it's not something we want
<dholbach> Tonio-: i like the idea of the reminder
<\sh> ajmitch: morgue it
<Tonio-> okay! (just hope that will not be a reson for non advocating)
<ajmitch> \sh: sure, will pass it by seb :)
<\sh> ajmitch: no..don't ask seb...he will actually fix it ;) no ways ;)
<Tonio-> Riddell: just got allee comments on ketv, impressive !
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> \sh: I'm just doing random bug triage for the gnome team :)
<Riddell> Tonio-: we need that guy for MOTU
<Tonio-> Riddell: I was amazed by all that he found !
<ajmitch> Riddell: who's that?
<Riddell> ajmitch: kde-qt-debian guy who hangs around #kubuntu-devel
<Riddell> dholbach: do you have an amd64?
<ajmitch> ok
<dholbach> Riddell: yes
<ajmitch> dholbach: lucky chap :)
<dholbach> after my old i386' motherboard got blown, i decided to buy it
<dholbach> so that was merely a replacement :)
<ajmitch> yeah
<Mithrandir> amd64 is the way of the future! :-)
<ajmitch> I'm thinking of a replacement box in a few months
<ajmitch> s/thinking/dreaming/
<ajmitch> my bank account will be a bit tight after UBZ
<dholbach> ajmitch: if i should win the lottery, i will remember you :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: thanks ;)
<dholbach> de rien :)
<Tonio-> et en franais s'il vous plait ;)
<ajmitch> yay, just wiped 7 packages off the 'incoming' list for UnmetDeps ;)
<ajmitch> thanks to a mythplugins build & upload
<tseng> hah
<tseng> i need to upload myththemes
<tseng> and mythgame
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> mythphone is the other broken one
<Lathiat> yay
<ajmitch> hey jinty
<jinty> hoi ajmitch
<jinty> whats going?
* ajmitch is just doing some cleanups :)
<ajmitch> jinty: you have a launchpad account?
<ajmitch> we have a nice shiny new zope team there: https://launchpad.net/people/zope
<ajmitch> it'll be more useful once main is using malone
<jinty> yeah I do, should be jinty or something
<ajmitch> ok, if you want to join I should be able to approve it
<ajmitch> we'll see if doko will join that group as well
<ajmitch> wb ogra :)
<ogra> grmpf....
<ogra> DSL sucks..
<ogra> I WANT SDSL (without daily reconnect)
<Lathiat> correction, your dsl sucks
<ogra> *whine*
<Lathiat> altho mine sucks atm cus im shaped to 33kbps
<ogra> Lathiat, every DSL sucks ... i want a real line..
<Lathiat> i used to live on this 2 years ago
<Lathiat> how did i ever manage...
<Lathiat> ogra: my dsl is great...
<ajmitch> mine sucks because my isp's bandwidth monitoring works again :)
<ogra> is it symmetric ?
<Lathiat> haha ajmitch
<Lathiat> yeh im 2.8G over my quota for thsi month
<jinty> ajmitch. cool I joined, not that I know what it allows me to do yet
<Lathiat> not bad considering the first 2G was at 72kbps and the last .8G at 33kbpw
<ajmitch> jinty: we'll assign zope bugs in malone to that group
<Lathiat> heh, 33 kilobits per week
<ajmitch> jinty: having more eyes on the bugs is usually good :)
<Lathiat> me blah, i need asome disk in my gateway to make an apt-cache, im currently getting xorg 3 times on 3 different machines
* jinty is normally only able to do things for zope3 or schooltool bus
<dholbach> can somebody who is NOT on universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com make a change to a malone bug?
<ajmitch> jinty: that's fine
<Lathiat> dholbach: not subscribed to that list?
<Lathiat> sure
<Lathiat> i think im not subscribed *checks*
<dholbach> yes, not on it at all
<Lathiat> woops i am
<Lathiat> i can unsubscribe
<Lathiat> since i dont actually read it
* dholbach makes notes silently
* dholbach pipes innocently
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch reads universe-bugs several times a day ;)
<Lathiat> well i forgot i even subscribed
<Lathiat> was being procmailed away in a folder not setup in mutt
<Lathiat> hm, how do i search for bugs
<Lathiat> i cant?
<Lathiat> hm
<Lathiat> ... if i get the unsubscribe message
<ajmitch> yay f-spot 0.1.3
<Lathiat> man
<Lathiat> theres a problem with people putting @comments@ in the status thing
<Lathiat> that needs to be cleared up
<Lathiat> because its not visible from the main page
<Lathiat> so confusing
<Lathiat> ok, i mofidief bug 2404
<tseng> ajmitch: woo
<Lathiat> after unsubbing
<Lathiat> dholbach:
<tseng> - Png metadata support.
<tseng> elite
<dholbach> Lathiat: have no mail yet... waiting
<ajmitch> will throw it into debian & ubuntu asap
<tseng> - New rdf metadata backend.
<tseng> i wonder what this means
<ogra> Lathiat, mofidief ? man, swallow before speaking ;)
<tseng> hi ogra
<ogra> hey tseng
<Lathiat> heh
<dholbach> Lathiat: it still requires approval
<dholbach> GRMBL
<dholbach> i seem to stupid to figure this crap out
<ajmitch> dholbach: you, stupid? hah, that'll be the day :)
<Lathiat> trying to fix the mailman options?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> circumvent malone's mail changes
<ajmitch> mailman is difficult at times
<dholbach> but anyway
<dholbach> i'm out for lunch
<ajmitch> bye
<ajmitch> rock, f-spot built for sid
<Lathiat> dholbach: in mailman admin
<Lathiat> dholbach: -> Privacy Options
<Lathiat> then "Sender filter"
<dholbach> and then?
<Lathiat> change "Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined" -> accept
<dholbach> the problem is that the important bit is Reply-To and not "From" anymore
<dholbach> and i'd not like it to be unmoderated
<Nafallo> ajmitch: and for breezy? :-)
<Lathiat> howso?
<Lathiat> unmoderated is what i said above
<Lathiat> not sure wwhat you mean about the reply-to bit
<dholbach> i had a rule for look at From when it still was X@bugs.launchpad.net
<dholbach> that was easy
<dholbach> now From: is   mr.x@hotmail.com and the like, but reply-to is X@bugs.launchpad.net
<Lathiat> so ou want to filter on reply-to
<dholbach> yes
<Lathiat> ok i have no idea how to do that
<dholbach> i was told to look at Spam options
<dholbach> but apparently that was not as easy as i thought
<dholbach> i'll have a look later
<ajmitch> Nafallo: I haven't built for breezy yet
<ajmitch> mm
<ajmitch> love that resize bug
<Nafallo> hehe
<ajmitch> hm f-spot imported some nice old screenshots
<ajmitch> like a desktop with e16, x11amp, netscape 4
<havoc> heh, x11amp :)
<havoc> *old*
<havoc> and very badass at the time :)
<j^> did anyone look into adding x264 packages to multiverse/universe?
<zakame> hello all
<sistpoty> hi zakame
<bddebian> Hey gang
<ajmitch> hello
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch.  Still talking to me? :-)
<ajmitch> maybe :P
<bddebian> :'-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: I still haven't caught you in bugs fixed though
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well you will if I quit :-)
<ajmitch> I would quite
<hubW> there is a security bug that have been imported from debian to ubuntu bugzilla
<ajmitch> q/quite/quit/
<ajmitch> except it's far too much fun
<hubW> I already filed the bug in ubuntu bugzilla
<ajmitch> hubW: ?
<hubW> shall I close the other as duplicate?
<ajmitch> hubW: give us bug numbers then
<hubW> 16165 and 16611
<AcidPils> hi
<ajmitch> security bugs need special checking :)
<hubW> I reported both
<hubW> and I provided the upstream fix
<hubW> because I'm upstream
<AcidPils> has anyone else problems playing .ogg files with mplayer?
<ajmitch> hubW: ok, close one as duplicate
<ogra> AcidPils, #ubuntu for support please...
<ajmitch> hubW: didn't realise you worked on abiword as well :)
<ajmitch> hubW: I'd close 16611 since noone has commented on it
<zakame> hmmm... if there's a package that isn't in launchpad that has some bugs I'd like to report, what do I do? register that package to launchpad?
<ajmitch> zakame: you might ask #launchpad for that
<zakame> okies
<hubW> ajmitch: since I'm default QA contact for abiword I get all the bugs open for it :-)
<ajmitch> hubW: lucky you :)
* irvin is humbled with the presence of the masters
<ajmitch> hubW: I see pitti uploaded the fix into breezy
<ogra> zakame, make sure its not a main package first ;)
<zakame> ogra: 'tis definitely not :)
<bddebian> irvin: We are not all masters, believe me :-)
<irvin> today's the kernel freeze right?
<ajmitch> bddebian: well you officially are
<sistpoty> ogra: I'd like to break UVF for package gvr... I did some bad patches for it which shouldn't really have hitten the archives
<irvin> first off thanks for making ubuntu!
<ogra> sistpoty, oki
<sistpoty> ogra: cool, thx... btw.: i had some discussion with upstream/dd on this... hopefully they will take a look at my new patches *g*
<ogra> :)
<sistpoty> perhaps now some MOTU has time to review c2hs? (http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/c2hs/)
<sistpoty> (fixes FTBFS on slomos list of unmet)
<dholbach> sistpoty: i can have a look
<sistpoty> cool, thx dholbach
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> how did 2am sneak up on me so fast?
* ajmitch has certainly done over his quota of ubuntu hours this week ;)
<sistpoty> i wonder this almost every night
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> so have I - it's been like this a few nights this week
<ajmitch> a few bugs fixed, a few packages uploaded :)
<xerxas> hi
<ajmitch> hello
* ajmitch waves to doko
<ajmitch> night all
<sistpoty> gn8 ajmitch
<bddebian> Gnight ajmitch
<dholbach> sistpoty: uploaded
<sistpoty> cool, thx
<xerxas> I have made a gnome splash screen changer in python
<bddebian> xerxas: Nice
<xerxas> which looks like gnome background changer
<bddebian> dholbach: OK, more UnmetDeps or bugs today? :-)
<xerxas> am I dreaming if I want it to be in ubuntu ?
<xerxas> when packaged or added to gnome-system-tools
<dholbach> bddebian: bug triage for me :)
<xerxas> or gnome-control-center
<xerxas> hi bddebian, dholbach
<ogra> xerxas, then you should contact upstream...
<dholbach> hey xerxas
<xerxas> ogra: gnome guys ?
<ogra> yup
<xerxas> (hi ogra)
<bddebian> dholbach: NO I'm asking what I should work on (that is if I don't give up entirely ;-) )
<dholbach> oh man
<dholbach> why should you want to give up?
<sistpoty> bddebian: i got s.th. for you
<bddebian> dholbach: Rough couple of days
<sistpoty> bddebian: missingh just needs a rebuild (i tested on i386)
<bddebian> sistpoty: ??
<bddebian> sistpoty: Ohh, OK
<ogra> xerxas, but its unlikely that they will accept python stuff for their default packages... i'd rather go with a separate package for ubuntu :)
<ogra> argh
<xerxas> ogra:  :)
<bddebian> sistpoty: What does it need a rebuild for?
<dholbach> hey sebest
<sebest> hey dholbach, what's up?!
* ogra takes a long run up and kicks xscerrnsaver
<sistpoty> bddebian: it's listed on unmet in slomos section... probably libghc6-missingh-dev or s.th.
<ogra> GODDAMMED THING !
<dholbach> sebest: bug triage! :)
<bddebian> sistpoty: It doesn't show up in apt-cache unmet
<sistpoty> hm...
* ogra cries
* bddebian hugs ogra *I know the feeling*
<ogra> i just cant belive it....
<sebest> dholbach, the number of open bugs is schrinking? :)
<ogra> everything works, but if i hit the unlock button the password dissapears before unlocking...
<ogra> now i solved that....
<sistpoty> bddebian: probably it was unmet at the time when ghc6 was unavailable... sorry for the noise then ;)
<dholbach> sebest: we're workingon it :)
<ogra> and the password starts dissapearing if i hi enter...
<ogra> it worked befroe
<ogra> grrr
<bddebian> Man, malone seems much faster the last couple of days
<bddebian> sistpoty: NP
* bddebian gives up on Malone bugs
<nictuku> hi. Anybody knows why python2.2-ldap isn't available?
<nictuku> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/web/zope-ldapuserfolder  depends on it
<bddebian> Haven't we dropped 2.1/2.2 support?
<dholbach> yeah, but maybe this one was not transititioned
<dholbach> zope was a bit problematic i reckon
<bddebian> aye
<bddebian> nictuku: ajmitch is probably the best person to ping on that and I believe he is currently asleep
<nictuku> I see. I'll see if I can investigate further into that.
<dholbach> doko: do you know what happened to zope-ldapuserfolder?
<doko> ?
<dholbach> doko with regard to python2.[1234] 
<doko> dholbach: ajmitch is our zope packaging expert :-)
<dholbach> i thought you were :)
<doko> main, not universe ;-P
<bddebian> *poor Universe*
<dholbach> doko: so, "no i don't happen to know" is your answer
<bddebian> Anyone know where libxmerl-erlang is supposed to come from?
<dholbach> from debian sid :)
<dholbach> we should maybe synd it
<sistpoty> bddebian: there is still a package-page for it, but neither source nor binary package or anything
<sistpoty> bddebian: maybe you could contact the dd
<sistpoty> bddebian: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/libxmerl-erlang
<bddebian> sistpoty / dholbach: I see it in Debian, I was askign about Ubuntu ;-P
<nictuku> should I use https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/zope-ldapuserfolder/+bugs or bugzilla.ubuntu.com ?
<dholbach> if it's not there, we have to get it :)
<doko> dholbach: so what is wrong with zope-ldapuserfolder?
<dholbach> nictuku: launchpad
<bddebian> Of course manderlbot is almost 2 years old so..
<dholbach> doko: it uses python2.2-ldap, which we lack to have
<nictuku> doko: it depends on python2.2-ldap
<nictuku> May I try to fix this and compile it for python2.4-ldap?
<bddebian> nictuku: Please
<sistpoty> bddebian: you actually see libxmerl-erlang in debian? i can't apt-get source it :(
<doko> $ apt-cache show zope-ldapuserfolder
<doko> Package: zope-ldapuserfolder
<doko> Priority: optional
<doko> Section: universe/web
<doko> Installed-Size: 468
<doko> Maintainer: Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis <luca@debian.org>
<doko> Architecture: all
<doko> Version: 2.2-2ubuntu1
<doko> Depends: zope-common (>= 0.4), zope2.7 | zope, python2.3-ldap
<doko> no
<bddebian> sistpoty: No I don't
<nictuku> doko breezy?
<bddebian> We are probably better off morgueing manderlbot
<sistpoty> bddebian: or you could (re)package http://www.erlang.org/user.html#xmerl-0.17
<nictuku> is it a good idea to go and upgrade ldapuserfolder to 2.5? (lastest stable version as of http://www.dataflake.org/software/ldapuserfolder/). I'd like to try that if you agree.
<sistpoty> bddebian: but don't ask me anything bout erlang, i have not the slightest clue ;)
<bddebian> sistpoty: Well I don't have clue about anything so you're one up on me ;-)
<sistpoty> bddebian: you sure have a clue... you are motu, i am not ;)
<doko> nictuku, dholbach: breezy ...
<bddebian> sistpoty: Bah, I'm just a pain in everyones ass
<nictuku> when reporting bugs, should I ignore hoary and always consider bugs in breezy?
<bddebian> nictuku: Yes
<nictuku> I mean, in this case of zope-ldapuserfolder, it seems the bugs does not exist in breezy.
<bddebian> doko: Are you saying it's fixed in breezy?
<doko> guys, just call apt-cache show zope-ldapuserfolder yourself ...
<Rotund> I'm supposed to ask about potentially getting Ross Burton's newest version of Meld into Universe.
<ivoks> hi
<Rotund> Debian Unstable has version 1.0, but Breezy is only at 0.9.5
<ogra> Rotund, its already in debian, right ?
<ogra> then we can sync it :)
<Rotund> (there was a 0.9.6 too)
<Rotund> yes.  It's in Unstable
<Rotund> testing has the same version we do.
<Rotund> So.  Can someone put this on their "list of things to do"?
* tseng wonders why ross never comes here himself
<ogra> heh, tseng me too :) he used to in hoary times ...
<tseng> yep
<tseng> i am about to write an awesome blog i think
<tseng> about debian/ubuntu development on the same system with xephyr and dchroot
<tseng> inspired by ajmitch
<sistpoty> hi slomo
<slomo> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> I'm just going through your haskell list on unmet ;)
<sistpoty> slomo:  haskell-cabal and haskell-http seem to be fine already? (can't find unmet dep there)
<slomo> sistpoty: haskell-cabal should be morgued
<slomo> it has broken postinst _and_ is already included in ghc6
<sistpoty> ah, i c ;)
<slomo> and the http thing should be fixed iirc
<sistpoty> i didn't try to rebuild http, cause i couldn't find packages with unmet deps of this (i386)
<slomo> ok, then it is ok
<slomo> haskell-hsql should also be ok
<slomo> but when haskell-http is broken it is broken in postinst... please try ;)
<spayne> yo all
<sistpoty> sorry, it *is* broken (depends on wrong ghc6)
<slomo> ok, then i haven't fixed it ;)
<spayne> \sh: my packages didn't work on kubutnu :-)
<spayne> \sh: my packages didn't work on kubutnu :-(
<tseng> hi slomo
<\sh> spayne: why not?
<slomo> hi tseng :)
<spayne> i installed them and nothing happened - they weren't in the KDE Control Centre
<\sh> theme manager?
<spayne> yeh
<spayne> although i'm not expert :)
<bddebian> Heya slomo, Seveas, spayne, \sh ;-)
<sistpoty> slomo: haskelldb only needs a rebuilt
<spayne> yo bddebian
<spayne> \sh: it is not under window decoration
<spayne> \sh: i will install synaptic to see where the packages have been installed
<\sh> spayne: make the packages public...I'll test them after I installed my laptop from scratch
<spayne> \sh: how?
<\sh> spayne: put it on a webserver...give me the url...i#ll catch them
<spayne> kk
<spayne> \sh: found out why it didn't work
<spayne> \sh: it only has installed these files: /usr/share/doc/kwin-activeheart
<bddebian> Is ghc5 unbuildable?
<sistpoty> i haven't tried yet...
<sistpoty> bddebian: last upload for debian was feb 05, but there is only one buildlog for mips which is maybe-failed...
<spayne> what would i need to put into a Makefile for a python install
<spayne> this is pyvnc2swf atm
<spayne> as there is no compiling needed
<spayne> just a 'make install'
<spayne> but there is no install defined
<sistpoty> spayne: imo you just need a make install target... but i don't know about the exact policy where site-packages stuff should be located and what to call as postinst
<spayne> \sh: how can i find out why those kwin things have made proper packages
<bddebian> tseng: Should xming work with putty?
<tseng> beats me
<spayne> where is the list of packages that need work on
<spayne> i'm trying to find something
<tseng> i export DISPLAY
<bddebian> tseng: Ahh
<spayne> ??
<bddebian> spayne: Which list?
<spayne> i'm looking for a good package to package up
<spayne> i think i have it at UniverseCandidates
<spayne> i might give ResApplet a go
<spayne> as i have had that building before on GNOME
<sistpoty> spayne: you know that we are in UpstreamVersionFreeze right now?
<spayne> i thought it didn't matter for universe?
<sistpoty> actually it does... however ogra and dholbach can make exceptions
<spayne> why was \sh suggesting i package those kwin themes then?
<tseng> there is not a freeze on new packages
<tseng> but it is prefered that people work on transitions and fixing stuff instead
<ogra> spayne, we have priories, as tseng says
<sistpoty> ah ok, thanks for making this clear ;)
<ogra> first of all we need to get universe in releasable state...
<ogra> sistpoty, as if we hadnt talked about that 1000 times now... (at least in the last 3 meetings)
<spayne> i just thought resapplet is very useful for laptop guys
<sistpoty> ogra: yeah, i know... i just thought apt-get.org was the exception ;)
<spayne> what catagory would resapplet be?
<spayne> brb
<spayne> this looks as if it might actually worek
<spayne> s/worek/work
<spayne> \sh: i'm building resapplet (quite sucessfully as well)
<spayne> \sh: who should i ask about menu entries in the GNOME menu?
<\sh> spayne: kewl...
<\sh> spayne: the .desktop files ;)
<spayne> \sh: i use it several times a week so it made sense to package it
<spayne> \sh: yeh but at the moment, it is going into Other
<spayne> is it an Accessory or System Tool?
<\sh> spayne: check the desktop files and the xdg specs on freedesktop.org
* \sh has now some serious business to deal with the german community :( be back in a few
<bddebian> Hmm, what's the best way to make patches for cdbs packages?
<tseng> include simple-patchsys from cdbs
<tseng> and use cdbs-edit-patch
<tseng> or just normal diff
<bddebian> It's already included
<tseng> its not a special format like dpatch
<bddebian> Well simple-patchsys is
<tseng> just a normal diff
<bddebian> And just put it in debian/patches?
<tseng> drop it in debian/patches is all you need
<tseng> yessir
<bddebian> Heh, thx
<tseng> cant get any easier than that
<spayne> btw how does pbuilder work - it is amazing
<spayne> tseng: banshee is great btw
<tseng> yes.
<tseng> pbuilder just uses a chroot
<tseng> and does apt-get build-dep package
<tseng> when its done, it removes all that stuff again
<spayne> YES! IT WORKED :-)
<spayne> my first proper package build and install properly
<spayne> YES!
<bddebian> tseng: Does debian/rules patch work with that?
<bddebian> Just to test?
<tseng> bddebian: hm?
<tseng> oh
<tseng> bddebian: hm?
<spayne> this has made my day
<spayne> lintain doesn't like it though
<bddebian> tseng: With cdbs can I still do "debian/rules patch" to test if my patch applies?
<tseng> i guess
<tseng> dunno
<bddebian> tseng: np, thx
<dholbach> hey slomo
<dholbach> hey markuman
<slomo> hi dholbach
<spayne> dholbach: i did it - i made a package that WORKS!
<dholbach> ROCK'N'ROLL
<slomo> where is crimsun? he broke everything that uses ffmpeg...
<dholbach> he did?
<spayne> dholbach: resapplet - a great app
<dholbach> spayne: you're working yourself through wiki/UniverseCandidates now?
<Nafallo> lol
<slomo> dholbach: yes... updated it and now nothing can be rebuilt against it... except vlc
<spayne> dholbach: yes :) the kwin ones failed i don't have the time to get KDE working
<spayne> dholbach: i use resapplet every day so this made sense
<slomo> dholbach: it's all still usable (static linking....) but unbuildable
<dholbach> spayne: rock, super
<dholbach> ouch :/
<spayne> dholbach: just trying to get lintain happy
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, being generous with giving bugs again I see
<slomo> dholbach: that was for example one reason why i wanted to use marillat's ffmpeg version and everything but elmo doesn't respond to me regarding that...
<dholbach> hm :((
<dholbach> maybe discuss it on ubuntu-devel@?
<dholbach> i mean you just worked on it for some time
<slomo> no time... otherwise i would have done that already...
<slomo> at least i got it out of main... now i just need it and all packages depending on it in multiverse...
<Nafallo> slomo: is that what you plan to do tomorrow? :-)
<slomo> no... crimsun's update broke everything... seems like he even incremented the epoch so everything is lost now ;)
<Nafallo> joy ;-)
<markuman> ehm, ive check out: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/xfce4/+bug/584 it only happend with mousepad-0.2.0. but in breezy universe there is mousepad-0.2.2 and there it works. is it ok to refer to breezy - also it has not stable status?
<markuman> or what could i do?
<slomo> close the bug
<markuman> Status: fixed ?
<Amaranth> mark it as fixed and leave a comment saying it's fixed in 0.2.2 in breezy
<markuman> ok thx!
<janimo> hey
<janimo> if I uploaded a pack with hoary in the dist field
<janimo> and got obviously REJECTED
<janimo> the next upload should bump the ubuntuX version?
<Amaranth> couldn't hurt
<Nafallo> ehm, why? the wrong package got rejected...
<Nafallo> no need to bump it again for a package that isn't in the archive...
<janimo> Naffalo, I try another dput after correcting the changelog but got the msg that it's already uploaded
<janimo> so I bumped and uploaded again
<Nafallo> hmm, did you use the right sourcepackage?
<Nafallo> have you checked that noone else uploaded a package with changes you don't have incorporated in your package?
<janimo> I dput, got REJECT, tweaked changelog, debuild -S, dput got error msg
<janimo> in this order :)
<Mithrandir> janimo: rm the .upload from the previous run
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: good catch :-)
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: dude, I've been making those mistakes for years, I should know what can go wrong at different steps by now. :-P
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: oh. you make mistakes? :-)
<janimo> Mithandir, thanks I'll know better next time, now I just bumped the version
* Nafallo sees the imagination of the god falling apart
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: don't tell anybody. :-)
* Nafallo blogs it ;-)
<Nafallo> naah
<janimo> I was wondering how come it almost instantly knew over a slow link I had uploaded but thought hey
<Nafallo> but then again. I'm to lazy to rm things. I just use -f ;-)
<spayne> dholbach: the only error i get from lintain is there is no manpage, does this matter?
<ivoks> so, how's everybody?
<markuman> :-)
<dholbach> it's always VERY good to have one
<dholbach> hey ivoks
<ivoks> hey Daniel
<dholbach> spayne: it's an applet, right?
<spayne> dholbach: except there isn't one from CVS
<spayne> yes
<dholbach> spayne: it's trivially easy to write one
<dholbach> spayne: but for an applet i'd say it's not that important
<dholbach> spayne: if you look at gparted (apt-get source gparted), you'll see how i did it
<spayne> dholbach: so, when it is ready, will you upload it for me?
<dholbach> spayne: it has to be reviewed
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackagesPolicy
<spayne> how do i go about it>
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<spayne> but i don't have my signed GPG key
<dholbach> *cry a fair bit*
<spayne> i thought you said you could upload it for me
<dholbach> then you will have to upload it somewhere and you'll have to pester two people who will review it for you and both have to say "yes, resapplet is LOVE" in the end
<dholbach> then I (or some other MOTU) can upload it
<spayne> dholbach: i will put the bits on my website in 5 min
<ivoks> dholbach: recruting? :)
<dholbach> yeah, take your time
<dholbach> just ask some folks to review it
<spayne> will you review it?
<spayne> bddebian: will you review it?
<ivoks> hm..
<ivoks> we are kind of too close to release, aren't we?
<ivoks> bringing new packages now wouldn't be so smart...
<ivoks> so, for next release?
<siretart> spayne: for revu, you don't need a signed key (yet) ;)
<ivoks> (i could be wrong)
<spayne> dholbach: any comments?
<slomo> ivoks: a new package doesn't break something... and when it works at least a bit it is an improvement over not having it ;)
<ivoks> slomo: true
<dholbach> slomo: ++
<dholbach> we shouldnt focus on bringing new stuff in
<spayne> and it iwll help those with laptops
<dholbach> but as i'm working on AptGetOrg, i'm happy to get stuff in that's well-maintained too
<dholbach> it's all about ExpandingUniverse :)
<dholbach> wow, apt-get.org package called p0rn-comfort, as Ubuntu we MUST have it
<dholbach> excellent
* dholbach will look at that one first
<bddebian> heh
<dholbach> "support programs for browsing image-gallery sites"
<janimo> dholbach, provide screenshots on REVU ;)
<dholbach> of COURSE :)
<Nafallo> wow
<dholbach> "you can control the program magnificently with just ONE hand" - .... just kidding
<dholbach> that's not in debian/control ;-)
<\sh> dholbach: hehehe
<Nafallo> ROTFL
<Nafallo> hmm
<dholbach> http://www.cgarbs.de/p0rn-comfort.en.html
<Nafallo> I hope bash.org get that one distributed quickly enough ;-)
<dholbach> :)
<spayne> no errors from lintain!
<spayne> dholbach: http://www.evolutioncolt.com/~spayne/packages/resapplet
<dholbach> set it on my list
<dholbach> will do later
<dholbach> right?
<spayne> yep
<spayne> bddebian: will you take a look and see if it is OK?
<spayne> bddebian: you can find it at http://www.evolutioncolt.com/~spayne/packages/resapplet
<spayne> or anyone else really
<spayne> the resapplet packages are up and ready for testing at http://www.evolutioncolt.com/~spayne/packages/resapplet
<slomo> spayne: just say it one time and not three times at once ;)
<spayne> lol
<bddebian> spayne: Trying now
<spayne> thanks
<spayne> you can find the menu link in Applications --> Accessories
<spayne> it doesn't depend on much - just gnome stuff
<dholbach> slomo: we'll have a gbs-plugin for xmms soon - we could use that for bmp too, couldnt we? ;)
<dholbach> "gameboy sounds" ;)
<bddebian> spayne: Seems fine to me
<slomo> dholbach: most probably
<spayne> bddebian: it installed ok and you can change your resolution?
<slomo> but maybe needs some porting to gtk2... and i have no time atm ;)
<dholbach> yeah
<bddebian> spayne: I can't test it yet cause I'm at work ssh'd in :-)
<bddebian> But it builds/installs fine
<spayne> good :-)
<dholbach> slomo: ok, we won't get it, licensing... again
<bddebian> Ah I see the -devel ML hates me too :'-(
<bddebian> :-)
<dholbach> bddebian: ...
<dholbach> bddebian: ......
<dholbach> bddebian: .........
<slomo> dholbach: wonderful...
<slomo> bddebian: but mosml should be doable
<bddebian> slomo: mosml?
<slomo> err... dholbach was meant ;)
<bddebian> w00t, wipe another UnmetDep off the list
<spayne> found an error with it
<spayne> PLEASE! no one else try it
<ivoks> o lol!
<ivoks> "netatalk": Installation and maintenance is far more complex than EtherShare
<ivoks> what drugs are these guys on? :)
<ivoks> netatalk installation complex? maintenance? :)))
<dholbach> 5 years ago it was horrible :)
<dholbach> that's all i can say
<dholbach> never tried it after that again
<ivoks> now it's piece of cake
<ivoks> i have it on 5 locations
<spayne> hmm - when i run 'Configure Display Settings;, it says "/opt/gnome/bin/gnomesu" not found
<dholbach> mac users...
<spayne> looks like a suse problem
<ivoks> install, configure, never hear again from clients :)
<\sh> I installed it in 2002 ... easy as hell...nice to work with...
<ivoks> 2.x version is great
<\sh> windows nt 4 <-> linux with samba + netatalk/appleshare <-> apple G3 ,-)
<ivoks> it doesn't crash anymore
<ivoks> \sh: yeah, my story too :)
<\sh> since then apple could write on windows nt 4 without problems...and windows nt 4 could burn stuff from apple g3 appleshare
<\sh> we shared windows nt 4 mounts via samba towards appleshare/netatalk to apple mac os (not X)
<dholbach> "Copyright: <Must follow here>"
<ivoks> X is crap :[
<dholbach> super
<bddebian> uhhh
<\sh> dholbach: wasn't super..after this session, the exchange 5.5 server crashed, and this version was a private copy of the ex-sysadmin in this company...so official bought version was 5.0 and the downgrade from 5.5 to 5.0 is more a pain then a pleasure
<dholbach> \sh: i was referring to: "Copyright: <Must follow here>"
<\sh> oh ;)
<ivoks> :>>
<bddebian> Bah, Use Dave to access Windows shares from Smash-n-toss
<ivoks> dholbach: reviewing packages? :)
<ivoks> 20 clients for Helios = 2600 euros
<ivoks> omg :)
<ivoks> ok, i'm offtopic... sorry
<dholbach> ivoks: yep
<dholbach> ivoks: wiki/AptGetOrg
<\sh> wohooooo MAKO !!! http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/64451
<\sh> the 100 Dollar Laptop is there ;)
<spayne> how handy is this? I've become a C hacker!
<hub> netatalk today is nice
<hub> I worked on netatalk here
<ivoks> hub: netatalk is great
<ivoks> it better integrated with CUPS then samba :)
<hub> ivoks: samba and cups work fine
<hub> I worked on that too :-)
<hub> the PITA is ZeroConf
<Lathiat> yeh im gonna look at that for dapper
<Lathiat> first by seeing if apple have published their stuff that does it
<ivoks> hub: they work fine, but you can't beat netatalk
<hub> well
<hub> if you use a Mac, use IPP
<ivoks> hub: it's one line :))
<hub> no need for netatalk :-)
<ivoks> mac9
<hub> ah
<hub> forgot that there are still people using that
<hub> use lpr :-)
<ivoks> i don't run netatalk at all on osx
<hub> ivoks: netatalk on Linux for MacOS X clients
<ivoks> hub: right
<hub> ivoks: still make sense for files
<ivoks> hub: on osx i connect via SMB
<ivoks> faster and easier...
<hub> not really
<hub> messier
<ivoks> OSX is mess by definition :)
<Lathiat> haha
<ivoks> i acctually hate it
<hub> ivoks: there are actually several good things and we should "copy"
<ivoks> hub: several, but all other are very bad :)
<ivoks> hub: things theu copied from us are very bad :)
<ivoks> they
<ivoks> like samba and cups :)
<hub> ....
<ivoks> osx's smbclient doesn't support large files
<hub> ivoks: that's why I use Netatalk
<hub> 2.0.3 support large files
<hub> and it works well
<ivoks> i know
<hub> I wrote a test suite for that
<ivoks> that's why i have netatalk for osx on one location
<ivoks> that's one of many reasons i hate OSX :)
<ivoks> and that cups with ipp://IP/ipp/printer
<hub> I hate OSX for other reasons
<ivoks> instead of IP/printers/printer
<hub> that other reason
<hub> I hate them for that
<spayne> \sh: how do i add another entry to the changelog
<ivoks> a**holes
<spayne> can anyone tell me
<spayne> i need to bump the version to ubuntu2
<hub> ivoks: that's why I implement Zeroconf advertising
<spayne> so what do i do?
<spayne> edit the files by hand or just use a command?
<ivoks> hub: i'll think of that too :)
<hub> but I should one day redo using Avahi
<\sh> spayne: dch -i
<bigcx2> spayne: dch
<hub> inside CUPS
<hub> like they do on Mac
<spayne> \sh: my first package worked nicely
<hub> the patched CUPS to send a message to the system to tell to reload the list of queues
<spayne> \sh: i had to do some C hacking to get it working with GNOME but it totally rocks
<spayne> \sh: i just need two MOTUs to test it out :)
<\sh> spayne: set your ENV var: DEBMAIL and DEBNAME according to your needs ;) for dch ;)
<hub> and some daemon advertise them
<ivoks> avahi-daemon :)
<Lathiat> hub: yes,k you should :)
<hub> I'll try to attend Zeroconf BOF a UBZ
<hub> Lathiat: yeah.
* Lathiat wont be at UBZ sadly
<hub> Lathiat: and implement mdns: handler for CUPS
<hub> because Apple'
<Lathiat> hopefully others willl pimp it for me
<hub> s is not open source
<hub> Lathiat: I'm local for UBZ
<ivoks> don't we have that in breezy allready?
<hub> ivoks: yep
<ivoks> guys
* \sh had to throw away his work schedule :( anyways..that was worth it..think I'm going to bed now
<ivoks> ddrake will rock the world
<crimsun> 'night \sh
<spayne> \sh: thanks for you help
<\sh> spayne: wasn't a great help today...:( but sunday, monday this will change..then I bang again...
<ivoks> oo2 rc
<ivoks> they will release it just after breezy
<ivoks> those baggers :)
<ivoks> badgers
<ivoks> arghghgh not my day :)
<hub> we are releasing abiword 2.4 RSN
<hub> won't be in Breezy either
<spayne> auch - that is a bugger
<hub> Lathiat: the thing is that I used howl as a mDNSResponder
<hub> Lathiat: and other trick to get it configured
<spayne> backports for OOo2 Final?
<crimsun> hub, not before 13 Oct?
<ivoks> spayne: only when oo gets in dapper
<crimsun> as long as "RSN" < 13 Oct, that won't be a problem
<hub> crimsun: soon, but I have been told that breezy is frozen
<hub> ok
<hub> I'll push
<spayne> YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!
<spayne> it worked
<crimsun> hub, oh, apologies, part of the packages are in main
<hub> crimsun: it is in main
<hub> crimsun: that's why
<ivoks> :[
<spayne> so when you choose Configure Display Settings, it pops up the GNOME thing!
<crimsun> yes
<spayne> dholbach: ping
<ivoks> hub: then, no chance :/
<hub> can I make it for universe?
<crimsun> I was looking only at 'abiword'
<dholbach> spayne: pong
<crimsun> hub, nope. Unfortunately abiword is a main package. Sorry.
<spayne> dholbach: i fixed it
<dholbach> spayne: super
<slomo> crimsun: you broke all stuff depending on ffmpeg/libavcodec :(
<hub> crimsun: yeah I know it is in main.
<dholbach> spayne: but i'm still working on something else
<hub> crimsun: probably on of the only distro
<crimsun> slomo, all the rdepends?
<spayne> dholbach: i know - just saying new packages are up
<hub> FC4 put us on Extras
<crimsun> slomo, ABI change or ?
<slomo> crimsun: build rdepends... it's linked in statically
<slomo> crimsun: API changed
<spayne> in one even
<slomo> crimsun: so we now have all working packages but they are not buildable anymore
<spayne> i have built my first package
<spayne> AND hacked some C code
<crimsun> slomo, where do they die?
<dholbach> spayne: how did you patch the source?
<spayne> i edited it
<spayne> src/resapplet.c
<tseng> bad idea
<spayne> remove the YAST2 stuff can changed it to GDP
<spayne> tseng: did i do wrong?
<dholbach> tseng: give spayne THE link :)
<tseng> yes.
<tseng> *THE*
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> you're blog
<slomo> crimsun: everywhere ;) i haven't actually tried but told Nafallo to try it with transcode and it failed miserable... so i bet everything except vlc will fail the same way...
<dholbach> you know what i mean ;)
<tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/log/?p=7
<dholbach> woohoo :)
<spayne> sorry guys
<dholbach> dpatch-fun
<spayne> this is my first try
<spayne> sorry dholbach
<dholbach> spayne: don't worry
<tseng> spayne: use dpatch please
<dholbach> spayne: no problem
<spayne> tseng: going now
<dholbach> spayne: but as a package maintainer, you just do changes in debian/*
<spayne> right
<crimsun> slomo, ok, will look now.
<dholbach> spayne: so all you will have to do is patch the source in a patch in debian/patches
<dholbach> spayne: dpatch lets you instantly do this
<slomo> crimsun: we probably need new upstream versions of everything... or do you know the libavcodec internals? ;)
<crimsun> slomo, we can iron it out. Let's get a list of apps that b-d on it.
<spayne> tseng: do i need to remove the changes i have made to the file previously?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> editing the source in place like that will put the changes in diff.gz
<tseng> which is completely unmaintainable
<slomo> crimsun: ok... but i really don't have the time for that stuff now... after next wednesday i can look into this
<tseng> well its possible.. just pretty poor
<spayne> dholbach: got it - looks like a nifty prog
<slomo> crimsun: i've already done exactly the same for our previous libavcodec version... it's really a mess
<dholbach> ROCK
<spayne> hmm - what does make: *** No rule to make target `unpatch'.  Stop.
<spayne>  mean
<crimsun> slomo, ok. I'll look at transcode now then.
<ivoks> see you later guys
<crimsun> bye, ivoks
<ivoks> spayne: you use dpatch?
<spayne> yeh
<spayne> where do i run dpatch from?
<ivoks> maybe even cdbs? :)
<tseng> top of the source tree
<spayne> what's the error
<spayne> i ran dpatch-edit-patch 01resapplet
<ivoks> before that
<ivoks> you have to create patch and unpatch rules in debian/rules
<tseng> you need some rules
<tseng> indeed
<ivoks> tseng: high 5 :)
* spayne has no idea how to create rules :-(
<slomo> crimsun: thanks... but also consider my more aggresive approch i wanted to do when elmo finally answers me... ;) i wanted to move all the ffmpeg stuff to multiverse and replace it with marillat's package which has many advantages and also some for exactly this problem: we would get unmet deps for everything when the abi changes and really notice it instead of leaving many unbuildable installable packages flying around
<tseng>  debian/rules
<ivoks> spayne: checkout dpatch documentation
<ivoks> spayne: you have few examples
<spayne> will do
<ivoks> spayne: /usr/share/doc/dpatch/examples/rules/rules.dh.gz is for you
<tseng> i didnt include it at the time because cdbs "just works"
<tseng> and alot of debhelper stuff already includes dpatch
<slomo> tseng: or just fails in some cases ;)
<ivoks> tseng: funny thing... cdbs has one bug with dpatch
<tseng> should fix it
<ivoks> tseng: reported a year ago
<spayne> thanks
<tseng> ivoks: yes?
<ivoks> easy to fix
<tseng> ivoks: lets beat up j^
<ivoks> and no one did anything :)
<tseng> ivoks: lets not beat up j^, i mean jbailey
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> it should have unpatch: deapply-patches
<ivoks> but who am I to fix that :))
<tseng> i use cdbs with simple-patchsys
<tseng> and debhelper with dpatch
<ivoks> i don't use cdbs at all for now...
<tseng> :P
<ivoks> i'm still fresh in packaging
<ivoks> but cdbs is easy way to do things
<ivoks> i don't know how scalable it is
<dholbach> ivoks: you should have a talk with jbailey about that :)
<dholbach> he'll be delighted :)
<ivoks> why? :)
<dholbach> because he writes it and cracks on cdbs2
<ivoks> nice
<ivoks> well..
<dholbach> and apart from that he ROCKs
<slomo> oh cool... then i'll have to talk to him too
<ivoks> i'll just jump in -devel, shout "cdbs sucks" and run away :)
<dholbach> he's here :)
<dholbach> jbailey: did you hear that: ^ ^
<ivoks> those kids... when you leave computer on a few minutes, they are typing some nasty things..
<dholbach> hahaha
* dholbach hugs ivoks 
<ivoks> :)
<slomo> jbailey: ping? can you do something about http://bugs.debian.org/326926 ?
<ivoks> slomo: don't wake the dragon, man! :)
<spayne> dholbach: i have put my name down to apply for a member at the next CC meeting
<jbailey> slomo: Not for breezy...
<dholbach> spayne: excellent, get some stuff done on packaging/motu stuff and you'll be fine
<spayne> dholbach: i hope to get resapplet done this evening
<slomo> jbailey: ok, np :)
<spayne> dholbach: and a two or three before by the 11th Oct which should be good
<spayne> my wiki page is SebPayne
<jbailey> slomo: And for all that, I need help with cdbs2. =)
<ivoks> :)
<jbailey> Any of you REALLY like CDBS, adn REALLY wish that it DIDN'T suck.
<ivoks> jbailey: cdbs is great stuff :)
<jbailey> And REALLY like programming in posix shell? =)
<jbailey> I need help. = )
<spayne> why so many packages through today me wonders
<tseng> i was good up until you said posix
* ivoks is kind of Java person :/
<tseng> im a fool for bashisms
<slomo> jbailey: except one part i would do it... i don't like shell programming ;)
<tseng> slomo: scripting is the true way
<ivoks> ok, i have few books about shell programing
<ivoks> maybe i could give it a try...
<slomo> tseng: sure... but not that complex things ;)
<dholbach> jbailey: you have an incredible fan base :)
<jbailey> ivoks: Great.  It's in the alioth svn right now, but I want to move it to bzr shorly to make getting patches from folks even easier.
<tseng> slomo: i would call my snmp engine "complex"
<tseng> slomo: and it is like 300 lines of tcl
<jbailey> ivoks: I'll get that set really shortly and give you a tour. =)
<ivoks> jbailey: well, i would have to read books first
<jbailey> dholbach: =)
<jbailey> ivoks: Use the source, Luke!
<spayne> is Xubuntu ubuntu with XFCE btw?
<jbailey> ivoks: Seriously, I can explain any pieces that you're missing.
<ivoks> jbailey: thanks, i hope you will tutor me, since i'm total idiot for shell :)
<jbailey> ivoks: You'll find it remarkably regular.  There aren 't that many quirks, which is usually the hard part of coding.
<ivoks> i edit changelog with gedit :)
<dholbach> ivoks: you don't do it with OOo that's something :)
<ivoks> dholbach: i was sick of slow load :)
<dholbach> hahahaha
<ivoks> dholbach: so I got my self powerfull GUI tools
<ivoks> jbailey: well, I would really love to help you
<jbailey> That would be awesome.
<ivoks> jbailey: so, when you set it up, beep me
<jbailey> I feel sad because I demoed cdbs2 for the first time in Oldenburg last year.
<slomo> jbailey: maybe i can help out in 2 weeks too... so you can tutor me and ivoks at the same time or something ;)
<jbailey> And cdbs1 is just painful to use by comparison.
<jbailey> My goal is to make something that even ogra will love. ;)
<ivoks> slomo: no groupies! one by one :)
<ogra> heh
<jbailey> slomo: As long as "in two weeks" means after the breezy release then lovely ;)
<ivoks> jbailey: i can't before breezy, either... so, after BB
<slomo> jbailey: yes... after breezy release, after my remaining annoying bugs and after my exams =)
<jbailey> BB?
<ivoks> breezy badger
<ivoks> BB
<ivoks> WW HH BB PP
<ivoks> s/PP/DD
<jbailey> Oh, I see. =)
<jbailey> *sigh*
<jbailey> Another joyous acronym.
<ivoks> it's shorter :)
<slomo> would be much cooler if the starting letters of all release form a word or sentence ;)
<ivoks> yeah
<ivoks> lik
<ivoks> like
<ivoks> we will rule the world :)
<spayne> slomo: i agree
<zyga> LL - Larry Laffer
<zyga> DD - Ducky Duck ;-)
<zyga> hehe
<ivoks> EE - Edgy Edgar
<slomo> lol
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> or RR - Ricky Martin
<zyga> ?
<ivoks> other R is for Retard :)
<slomo> tseng: and for tcl... i don't remember seeing any tcl code yet ;)
<ivoks> oh, i'm in the mood today :)
<zyga> II - Icky Iguana
<tseng> slomo: youd love it
<slomo> tseng: do you have some example code?
<tseng> slomo: maybe
<tseng> slomo: my stuff at work is a different style from most people i think, more GNU C
<ivoks> see you guys
<ivoks> or better to say
<ivoks> see you friends
<slomo> tseng: btw... while we're at cool, weird languages... the c# 3.0 sql-like stuff is cool =)
<slomo> tseng: hm... can you show me one file or a small snippet? :)
<tseng> i cant log in to work
<tseng> i am at home sick
<ivoks> tseng: get better!!!!
<ivoks> bye
<tseng> slomo: here http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:t6ZCPM8kiXwJ:svn.orcaware.com/repos/branches/orca/import_orca_services_2.0/packages/rrdtool-1.0.41/tcl/ifOctets.tcl+tcl+rrdtool+tnm&hl=en
<slomo> tseng: oh :( hm, maybe you should do some kind of vacation for 2 weeks and relax completely without internet... you're much too often ill :/
<tseng> i am off until monday :)
<tseng> i used that code as an example for something before actually
<tseng> but mine is nicer :P
<slomo> hm... why doesn't it have tclsh in the shebang? but other than that this language looks interesting =) what advantages does it have?
<tseng> it has bindings for all the stuff i need
<tseng> and it has Expect
<tseng> ever seen that?
<slomo> nope... what does it do?
<tseng> http://expect.nist.gov/
<tseng> you can script actual interactive sessions
<tseng> like logging into a router and getting/setting stuff
<slomo> hm perfect :) some time ago i saerched something like this and found nothing
<slomo> but is there nothing similar for other languages?
<tseng> there are ports
<tseng> but expect is the original
<slomo> oh... found a expect port for python ;)
<tseng> man, but expect is elite
<tseng> (for tcl)
<slomo> at least it sounds elite :) so the ports should be good too... when they're well done ;)
<slomo> what other advantages did tcl have? (bindings for everything and expect is also true for python for example ;) )
<tseng> python-rrdtool?
<slomo> but at least the syntax of tcl looks nice :) something really weird that does things
<slomo> what's rrdtool?
<tseng> you know mrtg?
<tseng> http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~oetiker/webtools/rrdtool/
<tseng> rrdtool is the coolest
<slomo> ah... i remember reading about it :)
<spayne> tseng: ping
<tseng> hi
<spayne> tseng: sorry but i'm having problems with dpatch, can you lend a hand?
<tseng> perhaps, what kind of problem?
<spayne> it is the patch stuff in debian/rules
<spayne> i have: patch: patch-stamp
<spayne> patch-stamp:
<spayne> 	dh_testdir
<spayne> 	patch -p1 < debian/patches/*
<spayne> 	touch patch-stamp
<spayne> and it says
<dholbach> drop the patch -p1 stuff
<dholbach> that's not needed at all
<dholbach> that's what dpatch does for you
<spayne> yeh - thanks
<ajmitch> morning all
<bddebian> Damnit,I killed my ssh connections playing with vpnc
<ajmitch> what's new?
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<dholbach> hey ajmitch :)
<spayne> tseng: it woredk! thanks man
<ajmitch> dholbach: fixed all the desktop team bugs?
<bddebian> The desktop team has bugs?
* bddebian should fix those ;-)
<crimsun> no, assign all bugs to bddebian kthx
<Amaranth> it's no fun having bugs autoassigned to you
<Amaranth> i don't want to assign them to someone else without permission even though they should be the one handling them
<ajmitch> bddebian said he'd fix all the bugs
<crimsun> :p
<bddebian> Be hard to do when I quit, huh? ;-)
<crimsun> "you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
<dholbach> bddebian: http://tinyurl.com/drk8z - http://tinyurl.com/96e4l :)
<bddebian> crimsus is now known as "The Eagles" ;-)
<bddebian> w00t, ghc-cvs actually built on i386 and amd64
* bddebian is amazed
<bddebian> Well gotta head home and get to parent/teacher night.  Later gang
<spayne> bye bddebian
<spayne> tseng: how do i tell pbuilder to apply the patch? using the debian/rules?
<tseng> debian/patches/00list
<tseng> lists patches to apply
<tseng> when you call patch in ruls
<spayne> tseng: there is no 00list, just 01resapplet.dpatch
<ajmitch> so create one
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> and add the filename to it
<tseng> dpatch doesnt auto apply patches, you have to list them in 00list
<tseng> which reminds me, mono has a lot of dead patches in it
<tseng> dholbach: new mono-live beta!
<tseng> ajmitch: !
<dholbach> WOW :)
<spayne> will the file say: debian/patches/01resapplet.dpatch
<tseng> no
<spayne> or just 01resapplet.dpatch
<tseng> yhes
<spayne> and do i need anything in rules?
<tseng> dholbach: BLARH DUPLICATE BUGS
<tseng> driving me crazy
<dholbach> tseng: fun
<tseng> you keep assigning them :(
<spayne> tseng: do i need anything in rules?
<tseng> spayne: yes?
<dholbach> tseng: what should i do? just close them all?
<tseng> i thought we went over that part an hour ago
<tseng> dholbach: no
<tseng> dholbach: fix them :)
<ajmitch> tseng: I'll go for mono bug clean up this weekend
<dholbach> tseng: MAN
* tseng hugs dholbach 
<tseng> ajmitch: me too
<tseng> ajmitch: tag team
<ajmitch> alright
<tseng> ill start on bugzilla
* ajmitch will go off to work now, talk to you about it soon
<tseng> spayne: you should have calls to patch and unpatch in rules
<tseng> like..
<tseng> clean: unpatch
<tseng> and-some-other-rule: patch
<tseng> depending
<tseng> like in man dpatch
<tseng> also include dpatch.mk
<dholbach> good night
<thesaltydog> when someone writes: Brezzy +1, is he meaning dapper or something else?
<tseng> bye dholbach
<tseng> thesaltydog: dapper
<thesaltydog> tseng, tnx
<tseng> it didnt have a name when we started with breezy+1
<thesaltydog> tseng, I imagined. So there is a bug in latest ubuntu-doc fqguide.
<tseng> not my baby
<thesaltydog> tseng, :-) which is yours?
<tseng> not telling
<tseng> (mono)
<tseng> its bug free
<thesaltydog> tseng, ...I didn't tried yet. I have installed it to try a geographic application, but it (the application) didn't work.
<Burgundavia> thesaltydog, can you email me about that doc bug so I can get it fixed?
<thesaltydog> Burgundavia, sorry I have just made a malone entry...
<thesaltydog> Burgundavia, you need I paste it here?
* ajmitch back
<Burgundavia> thesaltydog, malone entry works
<thesaltydog> Burgundavia, sorry but I was writing when you pinged me, so I didn't see your call..
<thesaltydog> Burgundavia, I was too fast?:-=
<spayne> tseng: is my unpatch correct?
<spayne> unpatch: patch unpatch-stamp
<spayne> unpatch-stamp:
<spayne> 	dh_testdir
<spayne> 	if [ -e patch-stamp ] ; then \
<spayne> 		patch -p1 -R < debian/patches/01resapplet.dpatch ; \
<spayne> 		rm patch-stamp ; \
<spayne> 	fi
<ajmitch> spayne: if you're using dpatch, then no,  it's wrong
<spayne> what should i have then?
<ajmitch> using cdbs?
<spayne> what is cdbs?
<ajmitch> you're not then..
<spayne> look, what do i have to do in debian/rules to get it to apply the patch?
<ajmitch> cdbs is what makes your pak=ckaging easy
<spayne> i am very tired - can you just tell me?
<spayne> :)
<ajmitch> no, I won't just tell you :P
<ajmitch> have you read the dpatch docs & examples?
<spayne> night
<thesaltydog> :-)
<thesaltydog> ajmitch, not an easy job, eh?
<ajmitch> hm?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-05
<Surak> hey, hello
<Surak> Just did my first upload to REVU :-)
<ajmitch> great :)
* seth_k is annoyed that school refuses to allow him to find time to fix up his revu upload
<seth_k> tooooo much stuff to do as of late
<marcin_ant> hi all
<Surak> hello
<marcin_ant> I got a question about dependencies in ubuntu
<Surak> ogra: there?
<marcin_ant> today I wanted to test syslog-ng
<marcin_ant> so I installed syslog-ng which replaced sysklogd and then...
<marcin_ant> after reboot my system parially crashed
<marcin_ant> no network, no squid, mldonkey doesn't work etc.
<marcin_ant> after a quick look at scripts in /etc/inid.d
<ogra> Surak, terribly busy, but yes
<marcin_ant> I realized that these scripts requires syslog - but there is no dependency to syslog in their packages
<marcin_ant> so - is this 'by design' or this is just another ubuntu bug that I should report?
<Surak> ogra_: Just to thank you about warning me with mknod stuff. Got a night learning everything I could about udev, and now the package is lintian-clear :-)
<ajmitch> marcin_ant: strange, I'm running just fine with syslog-ng
<ogra> Surak, cool
<marcin_ant> ajmitch: I couldn't start my network interfaces without sysklogd
<marcin_ant> ajmitch: maybe because I use network-applet?
<Surak> I sent the package to REVU. What happens now?
<ajmitch> marcin_ant: I wouldn't know
<ajmitch> Surak: someone will look at it, if they have time & they know it's there :)
<Surak> ajmitch: that means that now I need to be bugging someone to take a look at my package three times a day? :-)
<ajmitch> possibly
<Surak> who == they ? :-D
<ajmitch> MOTUs who can upload :)
<jdong> ajmitch: would that be you? ;) j/k
<ajmitch> jdong: I'm one of them
* Nafallo is another one :-)
<Surak> The second on the list ;-)  https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+members/
<ajmitch> list order there doesn't matter
<ajmitch> Surak: perhaps you could start with the package name
<ajmitch> so that we'd know what to look at
<Surak> I know, just kidding. I was looking at some name I would recognize, and you came up first :-)
<Surak> The package is called "conexant" - it's a port from 2.4 version of the driver, back in the time when It could be modified freely.
* ajmitch hunts the revu list
<marcin_ant> Surak: I reintalled default syslog, I also had to reinstal ubuntu-minimal and had to restart my nic's manually and set up my default gateway again
<marcin_ant> Surak: now everything seems to work
<ajmitch> not listed on revu yet
<Surak> there was no free conexant module for 2.6, just an old one which comes with the modem's cd. This software was then ported to 2.6 and packaged to ubuntu for hsf modems
<Surak> ajmitch: I noticed, and I uploaded it about one hour ago.
<ajmitch> Surak: will look to see if it's stuck somewhere
<Surak> ajmitch: thanks
<ajmitch> hm, it's in incoming on revu..
<Surak> why doesn't it appear on revu's page?
<ajmitch> I don't have a conexant modem on  me to test it :)
<ajmitch> I don't know yet :)
<ajmitch> it got rejected..
<ajmitch> conexant_192-1_i386.changes
<ajmitch> source uploads please
<ajmitch> debuild -S -sa
<ajmitch> and then upload the  conexant_192-1_source.changes
<Nafallo> is that the multiverse thingies?
<Nafallo> there is a new conexant thing upstream, more beta I think, but has support for amd64.
<ajmitch> could be multiverse, I haven't looked at it
<Surak> This package is still for the only device I had: 14f1:2f00 . I just bought another model.
<Surak> this one is multiverse - it includes binary stuff
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> you still need to make a source upload :)
<Surak> I'm trying to force it, Uploading via ftp conexant_192-1.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of conexant_192-1.dsc
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> I can clean those out
<Surak> It's ignoring the --force option.
<ajmitch> try again
<ajmitch> it's because the files already existed on ftp
<Surak> Nafallo: If there's someone else doing this, I will work on something else
<Nafallo> Surak: not AFAIK
<ajmitch> first thing - is it really a native package, and why did you use that version number?
<Surak> I ain't tested it on amd64. Just a matter of turning the amd64 off and putting a modem into it :-) I have eight different machines only for ubuntu testing
<Surak> Ajmitch: It contains the firmware. The version number comes from the module developer (the one which ported it to 2.6)
<Nafallo> Surak: try to build it on amd64 first ;-)
<ajmitch> I mean, why is it not a package with a debian revision (orig.tar.gz & .diff.gz) and why not 192-0ubuntu1?
<Surak> This package was not submitted to debian yet. It's brand new. I though only packages coming from debian and modified should be called -ubuntu
<Surak> let me find where I read that
<Nafallo> not in debian == 0ubuntu1 :-)
<ajmitch> Surak: upload rejected again, I think it's keyring problems this time
<Nafallo> or rather 0ubuntuX :-)
* ajmitch will have to ask siretart what is happening there
<Surak> Nafallo: Just read that on wiki - shame on me
<Nafallo> :-)
<Surak> ajmitch: I send the key to siretart yesterday. He sent me an email containing this: "> The recover password function seems odd to me. It appears:
<Surak> oh, there was some permissions foo, please try again
<Surak> Gruesse,
<Surak>         Reinhard "
<Surak> sent
<ajmitch> Surak: yeah, but I heard there was some keyring trouble
<ajmitch> will find out from him :)
<Surak> Is this my fault?
<ajmitch> njo
<ajmitch> no
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> ajmitch: didn't know you spook swedish? ;-)
<Nafallo> no = nej, yes could be jo, s njo would be something that turns out to yes ;-).
<Surak> ajmitch: conexant_192-1ubuntu-1_source.changes - Should I upload it again?
<Surak> (with the -ubuntu1 as version name)
<Surak> Nafallo: are you there?
<Surak> the software is being developed as native debian from the beginning of the port. Should I change this?
<Surak> night people.
<bddebian> What's a better way to check a package looking for python.  Add a --with-python= to configure or modify configure.ac and autoreconf?
<lifeless> what do you mean ?
<bddebian> Currently cyphesis-cpp is looking for python but it's looking in the wrong place for 2.4.  Then it manually looks for 2.2 or 2.3.
<bddebian> I can add a --with-python= to ./configure to have it look or I can fix the configure.ac and then autoreconf
<bddebian> *I think*
<ajmitch>  The "all your workhours belong to us" release
<ajmitch> poor ogra ;)
<ogra> :)
<bddebian> Heh
<ajmitch> ogra: do you get any sleep?
<ogra> i think xscreensaver is the most expensive app we have in the desktop now :)
<ogra> about 4h a night during this week...
<ajmitch> I thought that'd be firefox :)
<bddebian> Nah, it's ghc-cvs ;-)
<ogra> next will be worse... i have to take up on edubuntu ... i lost nearly two weeks through all ths scrensaver crap
<ajmitch> bddebian: hardly expensive, you're donating your time for that
<ajmitch> ogra: if I can help you out, just ask :)
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> do you like postinst hacking ? :)
<ajmitch> depends what I'd have to hack
<ogra> moodle needs to work without wwwconfig-common ...
<bddebian> ajmitch: So my time is worthless, is that what you are saying? :-)
<ogra> all other stuff is nothing i could give away...
<ajmitch> bddebian: priceless, not worthless ;)
<ajmitch> ogra: ok, will look
<bddebian> Heh, good one
<ajmitch> I've dealt with wwwconfig-common in the past
<ogra> wow, that would be a real help :)
<ajmitch> only briefly with it :)
<ogra> i need to drop the dependency... thats holding it back from entering main
<ajmitch> ah ok
<ajmitch> what does it use wwwconfig-common for at the moment?
<ogra> so the db cretion scripts need changes...
<ogra> cretion
* ajmitch can probably hack out those parts
<ogra> c r e a t i o n
<ajmitch> using debconf to get db info?
<ogra> grmpf
<ogra> as you like...
* ajmitch watches moodle source download at 160K/sec
<ajmitch> ogra: how about the case of remote db? want to handle that?
<ogra> it needs to create mysql/postgres db'S
<ajmitch> yep
<ogra> hmm, it does that now i think... debconf already collects dbuser and server info
<ajmitch> right, so I can use the existing debconf info
<ajmitch> I'll take a look at it tonight & tomorrow
<ogra> but i think it doesnt need to create remote
<ajmitch> as I've got postgresql & mysql setup on my hom ebox
<ogra> wow, thats a real help :)
<ajmitch> glad to help, if I can :)
* ajmitch doesn't want to turn up to UBZ & see a half-dead ogra ;)
<ogra> if we once get edubuntu t-sirts, i'll reserve the first for you :)
<ogra> shirts even
<ajmitch> heh
<ogra> th suck is that i still cat put xscreensaver aside :( ... mvo needs fixes and already wasted a lot of time on it ...
<ajmitch> moodle needs php5?
* ajmitch might need to do it in a a chroot then
<ogra> it doesnt *need* php5 but works with it...
<ajmitch> or my laptop
<ogra> drop the dep while you wok on it
<ogra> *work
<ajmitch> I'll install apache/php/mysql/postgres on the laptop :)
<ogra> its a requirement for main ...
<ajmitch> yep
<ogra> but not needed for the fix :)
<ajmitch> and main packages can't dep on main | universe
<ogra> ah, yes, indeed you can add an "or"
<ajmitch> is that allowed still?
<ogra> sure
<ajmitch> ok
* ajmitch puts it on the todo list to thrash ;)
<ajmitch> along with passing bddebian in malone bugs fixed
<ogra> bddebian, is the bug hero :)
<ajmitch> I'm only about 12 behind him
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/bddebian/+karma
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/ajmitch/+karma
<ogra> heh its a competition ?
* bddebian better get to work
<ajmitch> ogra: not so much a competition as an incentive to work harder ;)
<ajmitch> I leave him the easy ones though ;)
<ogra> ah, come on, malone is below 500 :) its a good state
<bddebian> Unfortunately when I "fix" bugs everyone gets pissed :-)
<ogra> its way better than bugzilla...
<ogra> and regarding the amount of packages is unbelivable
<ajmitch> ogra: yeah, we've got over half the reported bugs closed
<ajmitch> still plenty to choose from
<ajmitch> it's 502 open at the moment
<ogra> i think mdz is happy if we release with a bugcount below 1000 in bugzilla
<ogra> so MOTU rocks the casbah currently :)
<ajmitch> I've been doing a little bit of bug mangling there too
* ajmitch has only been getting a little more sleep that ogra, but by choice ;)
<ogra> i'm slurping the rest of my last beer for today :)
<ogra> off to bed soon... (4am)
<bddebian> we're back over 500??
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes, get working
<ajmitch> ok ogra, get some sleep :)
<ogra> yup... quickly resolving some seed conflicts before :)
<ajmitch> sleep well :)
<bddebian> Later ogra
<ogra> night all
<ajmitch> moodle looks 'easy' enough to do psql & mysql db/user creation
<ajmitch> as well as some other postinst magic
<ogra> :)
<crimsun> new artwork rocks
* ajmitch hasn't seen it yet
<bddebian> gnat-gps sucks
<ajmitch> got screenshot?
<ajmitch> bddebian: you think *that* sucks?
<ajmitch> I have to try & generate html that'll look right in MS word :P
<bddebian> Bah that's easy :-)
<ajmitch> and do appropriate things like page breaks, etc
<crimsun> ajmitch: the new splash and background are in the latest ubuntu-artwork
<ajmitch> hand me a gun, please
<ajmitch> crimsun: I'm on XP at work here ;)
<bddebian> Word can save as HTML
<crimsun> ah.
<ajmitch> bddebian: no kidding
<crimsun> ajmitch: http://www.sh.nu/~crimsun/Screenshot.png
<ajmitch> a nice improvement
<bddebian> ajmitch: Any chance you could help me?
<LaserJock> bddebian: I put a link to my ghemical packages on the wiki
<bddebian> LaserJock: Aye, I saw that.  Don't we need mopac7?
<bmonty> hi all
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<LaserJock> for mine yes, but right now we can take the Debian libghemical and the unmet dep will be fixed
<bddebian> bmonty: You bored?
<ajmitch> bddebian: maybe
<bmonty> bddebian: not really...just got done putting together a crib
<bmonty> not fun :(
<bddebian> That's always fun :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: what do you need help with?
<bddebian> gnat-gps.  I think it's a simple fix but it's kicking my ass.  I need to override where it's looking for cairo.h
<ajmitch> aha
<ajmitch> and you think *I* am capable of helping?
<bddebian> Of course
* ajmitch doesn't even see a gnats-cps package around
<ajmitch> s/cps/gps/
<bddebian> apt-get source gnat-gps ;-P
<bddebian> Gotta switch machines, brb
<LaserJock> bddebian: I also included in my builds of mopac7 from Debian in my repo
<LaschW> Is there a Chance to find a maintainer for Eiciel to get Eiciel into Breezy? Eiciel is a posix ACL editor for Gnome. IMO well done and fits seamless into Nautilus.
<bddebian> NO way :-)
<LaschW> Eiciel only needs a rebuild on breezy. There are Debian Sarge deb's which are linked against an c102 deb from sid.
<LaschW> bddebian: Why not?
<bddebian> I'm kidding
<LaschW> bddebian: Not even in multiverse?
<LaschW> bddebian: *phew* You made my heart stop...
<bddebian> I'll try to take a look but I can't promise much at this point sorry
<ajmitch> bddebian: it would be a sync from sid, I think
<bddebian> ajmitch: OK
<LaschW> bddebian: I just installed it today and its an awesome tool to edit ACL's from Nautilus or as a standalone application
<ajmitch> assuming that you have a filesystem that supports & uses ACLs
<LaschW> bddebian: For a lot of Novell NDS Admins and Win AD Admins it will look very familiar
<ajmitch> bddebian can probably beg for a sync
<LaschW> bddebian: In the public sector field here in Germany a lot of administrators ask for ACL and precisely for a Gui Application.
<bmonty> good night all
<LaschW> bddebian: And I would bet it will be the same in the benelux ;-)
<ajmitch> night bmonty
<bmonty> bddebian: made sure I closed a bug....still not below 500 though :(
<hubW> what should I put in a -dbg package?
<bddebian> bmonty: Good job d00d.  Gnight :-)
<bddebian> hubW: Unstripped binaries afaik
<hubW> ah
<ajmitch> bmonty: don't worry, bddebian  will close another 50 or so bugs tonight
<hubW> and CDBS does it all alone with the right option?
<bddebian> No, I'm fighting with broken unmet dep packages :'-(
<bddebian> Fsck I hate days where Nothing works :-(
<crimsun> I hear that, bddebian
<hubW> cdbs rocks
* ajmitch waits for launchpad to disappear
<bddebian> disappear?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> "Launchpad will be going offline for maintenance in two minutes."
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> "Launchpad will be going offline for maintenance very very soon."
<bddebian> Doh.. How am I going to close these bugs??
<bddebian> ;-)
<ajmitch> wait for it to reappear :P
<hubW> what shall I do for a missing manpage?
<bddebian> Write one ;-)
<hubW> I have never written one :-(
<bddebian> Good time to learn :-)
<ajmitch> help2man is really useful, btw ;)
<ajmitch> eg help2man f-spot > f-spot.1
<ajmitch> and then check it with man -l f-spot.1
<ajmitch> or write one in docbook & use docbook2man
<ajmitch> hi Amaranth
<Amaranth> hi
<Amaranth> holy crap, there are still gcc 4 transitions left?
<hubW> ajmitch: good idea
<hubW> trying that
<Amaranth> hey, universe got slang2 done before main, neat
<ajmitch> Amaranth: some source just doesn't build right with gcc 4.0
<hubW> and how do I get the man page to be packaged?
<ajmitch> debian/pkgname.manpages
<ajmitch> place the manpage in debian/
<ajmitch> and list it in there
<hubW> ah
<ajmitch> might need to write debian/f-spot.1, for example
<hubW> ok
<hubW> I have it
* ajmitch can't remember the exact syntax
<hubW> I'll try that
<bddebian> Later folks
<ajmitch> ok, fought it back down to 500 bugs open
<crimsun> slomo_, transcode_1.0.0-0.4ubuntu2 uploaded.
<hubW> two packages updated on REVU
<ajmitch> man, +215 karma on LP in 24 hours..
<ajmitch> been a busy bug squashing time ;)
<hubW> what is the best way when upgrading upstream?
<hubW> copy over debian/ in the new tree?
<ajmitch> that's an easy way to do it
<ajmitch> & then bump the changelog to the new version
<hubW> ok
<hubW> so I do like I do
<hubW> :-)
<dholbach> good morning
<hubW> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey hub, how's it going?
<hubW> fine
* ajmitch waves
<hubW> I uploaded some stuff on REVU
<dholbach> ROCK
<dholbach> which one this time? :)
<hubW> and about to add a new upstream for hugin
<dholbach> oh cool
<hubW> dholbach: the previous  that I fixed
<hubW> I'll wait that these get uploaded before I do the next :-)
<dholbach>  hehe
<dholbach> and you do some fixes for malone/bugzilla instead :-p
<hubW> or for upstreams I work on
<hubW> I'm putting them in Malone
<hubW> atm
<dholbach> ah i see
<hubW> (because if takes a long time to build hugin)
<dholbach> so launchpad gets widespreaded use :)
<hubW> s/malone/launchpad/
<dholbach> yeah, i think launchpad really is worthwhile
<dholbach> the debian security team was quite busy these days
<dholbach> we should have a look at debian-security-announce@ to weasle out what we have to sync
<dholbach> i think pitti did more of the main ones
<ajmitch> what we have t sync & what we have to put up for review for hoary
<hubW> my upstream from AbiWord went thru
<dholbach> ajmitch: oh yes... hoary
<dholbach> *shudder*
<ajmitch> :)
<hubW> I forgot
<hubW> how do I resume package building
<hubW> ie after building the binaries
<hubW> nevermind
<hubW> found it
<siretart> morning
<siretart> who uploaded conexant?
<robitaille> siretart,  conexant? as in conexant modem drivers?
<siretart> robitaille: didn't look further in the upload, its in revu now
<siretart> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=668
<robitaille> siretart,  if that's the case, that would solve: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14288
<siretart> robitaille: seems so
<siretart> robitaille: but this package need quite some love :(
<Tonio-> morning everyone
<dholbach> morning Tonio-
<\sh> moins
<\sh> stress
<\sh> doing 1000 things at the same time...
<infinito> \sh: thanks for the gcfilms syncin!
<\sh> infinito: thanks are going to elmo :)
<infinito> \sh: anyway, thanks for helping ;)
<\sh> np
<ajmitch> hi \sh
* ajmitch is still waiting on a sync from elmo
<dholbach> slomo_: i got a comment on my go-open/multiverse blog post: you may want to look at it http://livejournal.com/users/lifeguardasleep/24931.html?thread=8547#t8547
<sistpoty> hi folks
<dholbach> hey sistpoty
<ajmitch> hi sistpoty
<janimo> hi sistpoty
<slomo_> good morning
<slomo> dholbach: yes... but that is nothing i can "fix" ;) it's just that gst-ffmpeg is a different package than the rest
<sistpoty> hm... does artwork deadline also count for universe?
<ajmitch> not afaik
<ajmitch> what artwork are you thinking of?
<dholbach> slomo: ok
<sistpoty> a desktop icon... only thing changed that it has a transparent background now
<sistpoty> but the package will remove quite some bugs, and some introduced by me (gvr)... ogra already gave his ok yesterday
<slomo> dholbach: and a new mosml packages comes in a few minutes... now i only have a easy exam at next wednesday so i can do other things ;)
<dholbach> hehe :)
<dholbach> we NEED you desperately
<dholbach> :)
<ogra> sistpoty, see mdz's comment on -devel ... a untranslated .desktop file is better than no desktop file ;)
<sistpoty> ogra: the desktop file is already in ubuntu... only the icon changed
<ogra> np
<sistpoty> cool, thx
<ajmitch> sistpoty: shouldn't be a problem at all :)
<ajmitch> btw good morning ogra !
<ogra> morning :)
<dholbach> hey ogra :)
<ajmitch> ogra: I'll get onto moodle once apache & php install on my laptop ;)
<ogra> great :)
<ajmitch> ogra: I hope the xss stuff goes smoothly today so that edubuntu can be polished nicely :)
<ogra> me too...
<ogra> but Mithrandir already reported an error... no idea where that comes from ...
<slomo> dholbach: do you know a Arwed v. Merkatz <v.merkatz@gmx.net>? that's a gstreamer developer... and as you're now working together with mr. gnome.... ;)
<ajmitch> hm
<dholbach> slomo: no, sorry, don't know him
* ajmitch used to know the gstreamer developers a couple of years back :)
<sistpoty> slomo: are there any issues with haskelldb? i tested yesterday and it only needs a rebuild
<slomo> dholbach: ok... then i'll just file a bug instead ;)
<dholbach> ogra: i met henning sprang yesterday... it was really funny :)
<slomo> sistpoty: tried to install it? often postinst breaks
<sistpoty> slomo: install/uninstall is ok
<ogra> dholbach, so you'll only use fai in the future to install ubuntu ? ;)
<slomo> sistpoty: then it should be ok... i have nothing to test if it works ;)
* ajmitch doesn't get to meet famous people :)
<dholbach> i don'T think so :)
<sistpoty> slomo: ok, I'll move it to rebuild only section
<slomo> sistpoty: ah, you don't have upload rights?
<slomo> sistpoty: then move it to finished... i'll do a rebuild
<sistpoty> slomo: not yet ;)... ok, i remove it again ;)
<sistpoty> s/remove/move to another section/
<slomo> hmm... do we have someone using gnome on freebsd or gentoo? i need a tester ;)
<ivoks> hey hey!
<sistpoty> hi ivoks
<ajmitch> hey ivoks
<ivoks> i got a job offer :)
<ivoks> to work for a company that provides solutions on RHEL...
<ivoks> so, i'm in moral dilema :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> yay
<ivoks> they would pay me RHCE and RHEL4
<sistpoty> force them to use apt-rpm ;)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: pfft
<ajmitch> debtakeover!
<sistpoty> *g*
<ivoks> eh :)
<ivoks> but, have no fear
<ivoks> i will push ubuntu as much as i can
<ivoks> acctually, they ofer me part time job...
<ajmitch> so plenty of ubuntu time!
<ajmitch> how many hours/week?
<ivoks> first thing i did is show them ubuntu
<ivoks> ajmitch: as much as I want
<ajmitch> you told them that you're an important ubuntu developer?
<ivoks> ajmitch: i'm a student still, so i told them they can't count on me 24/7
<ajmitch> ok
<ivoks> ajmitch: no, i don't consider my self do important :)
* ajmitch just gets the free time anyway :)
<ivoks> ajmitch: but they know I'm MOTU
<ajmitch> I work on average 30 hours/week, and they don't mind me doing ubuntu stuff in spare time
<ivoks> acctually, that was key factor why they contacted me
<sistpoty> damn, ivoks gets a part-time job for linux, whereas i need to earn my livings with M$Access-programming *envy* ;)
<ivoks> :)))
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I do PHP coding, almost as bad ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
* ajmitch needs music
<ivoks> last company i was in...
<ivoks> i told them not to call me if the problem is with windows
<ivoks> when they did that, they had to pay me more for one hour with windows, then with linux
<ivoks> like, double :)
<ajmitch> heheh
<ajmitch> I wish I could get that :)
<ivoks> so much about TCO :)
<sistpoty> *g*
<ivoks> but what's more important
<ivoks> i'll stick in both companys :)
<ivoks> both are part time jobs...
<sistpoty> and when do you have time for study then? ;)
<ivoks> sistpoty: this year i don't take any classes
<ivoks> sistpoty: i just have exams
* ajmitch gets busy filing debian bugs >:)
<sistpoty> ivoks: hehe, same as /me, but I only have one exam left :))
<slomo> sistpoty: hehe, me too :) what exam is it for you?
<ivoks> sistpoty: :))
<sistpoty> secondary subject? (nebenfach) ... it's paedagogik, sorry i don't know the english term
<ajmitch> mm, new xubuntu-meta :)
<sistpoty> wow, ding is working again :) paedagogik == pedagogy
<ajmitch> coworker of mine asked for an ubuntu cd today, will probably use xfce ;)
<slomo> sistpoty: ok... for me it's "grundlagen der programmiersprachen" (basic principles of programming languages?)... the last one this semester :) and a fairly easy one
<sistpoty> slomo: sounds good... I think I will also go for compiler construction part 3, but just because I'm interested in this
<slomo> sistpoty: so you will become our new compiler guy :P compiler stuff comes in 2 semesters for us iirc
* ajmitch gets ready to assign all compiler-related malone bugs to sistpoty ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: I surely get support from siretart then (he also took 1+2 with me)... the 3rd part is a first time lesson, as it used to come in 1+2 only
* sistpoty hides and points to siretart
<siretart> we are currently at uni and learning that stuff :/
<siretart> hi sistpoty *wave*
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<sistpoty> good luck then!
<slomo> hi siretart :)
<siretart> thanks :)
<siretart> huhu slomo
<ajmitch> lucky people
<siretart> slomo: yesterday, we found a regression in mplayer. Recent mplayers don't ship a /etc/mplayer/codecs.conf anymore. Leaving that files from older mplayer packages breaks playback of ogg/vorbis files :(
<siretart> slomo: do you have an idea how to solve that?
<siretart> the quick fix is to rm /etc/mplayer/codecs.conf, the default codecs list is fine
<janimo> ajmitch, pitch xubuntu to your colleague ;)
<slomo> siretart: yes... install a codecs.conf or delete the old one in postinst ;)
<ajmitch> janimo: oh I did
<slomo> siretart: btw... _codecs_.conf? not mplayer.conf?
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> if i want to make kubuntu out of my ubuntu
<ivoks> apt-get install kubuntu-desktop will install KDE
<ivoks> but...
<ivoks> nothing will remove gnome :)
<siretart> slomo: yes, according to AcidPils, it is really codecs.conf
<sistpoty> ivoks: iirc you can have both installed, although i didn't test that yet *fg*
<slomo> siretart: ok... i'll fix this
<ivoks> sistpoty: yes you can
<ivoks> sistpoty: that's not the problem
<ivoks> sistpoty: problem is how to remove gnome desktop?
<siretart> ajmitch: is it allowed by debian policy to rm conffiles from oder versions of the package?
<sistpoty> ivoks: dl kubuntu-cd... btw. i was only joking bout that one
<siretart> slomo: perhaps you should rather move that file out of the way
<ivoks> sistpoty: ah...
<slomo> siretart: i'll take a look... remove it when it is now elsewhere or install it otherwise
<siretart> well, ok. I'm back to learning, will have an eye here from time to time..
<sistpoty> siretart: greetings to johannes ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: same to you :)
<sistpoty> :)
<ajmitch> is codecs.conf a conffile?
* ajmitch doesn't know the policy on that, but you can ask in #ubuntu-devel
<sistpoty> ajmitch: imo it is, as there is a codecs.conf.dpkg-old on my outdated unstable
<slomo> wtf
<slomo> can someone test something for me? ;)
<sistpoty> sure
<zakame> ?
<slomo> Nafallo: you on amd64 maybe?
<slomo> sistpoty: do you have a music file flying around? then decode it to wav, feed it to wavpack and try to player it with gstreamer0.8-wavpack... in totem and with gst-launch-ext... what happens?
<sistpoty> slomo: will take some time... i think i need to install gstreamer-stuff first ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: totem: "Failed to play: Konnte die Ressource nicht zum Schreiben ffnen"
<sistpoty> do i need to setup totem to use alsa?
<slomo> sistpoty: can you play other stuff with gst?
<slomo> sistpoty: don't know what the ubuntu default is... but you can ;) gstreamer-properties
<sistpoty> slomo: no i can't play anything *g*... mom.
<sistpoty> slomo: i need some help on this *g*... what gstreamer-properties?
<slomo> sistpoty: the program called gstreamer-properties ;) but as this is a gnome program you probably don't have it ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> ok, just installing it
<sistpoty> slomo: totem: with visuals it stutters... the .wv is not as loud as the originial and sounds like it was mono
<slomo> sistpoty: ok, no problem... and gst-launch-ext?
<sistpoty> No configuration file /home/stefan/.gst found.  You might want to create one.
<sistpoty> This is not an error, just a friendly reminder... Check the man page.
<slomo> and after that? it plays?
<sistpoty> no
<slomo> but?
<sistpoty> "No suitable pipe found for extension wv"
<slomo> ok... fine ;) gnome bugzilla has a new bugreport
<sistpoty> ok, forget about the different sound... the wav itself sounds the same...
<slomo> funny thing this wavpack decoder plugin ;)
<sistpoty> yep
<sistpoty> hm... this is strange: c2hs was only built on i386, but it has "any" as architecture
<ajmitch> p-a-s?
<sistpoty> what is p-a-s?
<ajmitch> packages-arch-specific
<ajmitch> a file used on the buildds to override specific packages
<sistpoty> how could i find out? is it in the source-package?
<ajmitch> no, I said it's on the buildds
<ajmitch> you'd have to ask lamont-away or infinity
<ajmitch> unlikely, though :)
<sistpoty> hm... it isn't listed in status of other arches at all...
<sistpoty> on lamonts pages
<ajmitch> could be p-a-s then
<ajmitch> anyway, sleep time for me
<sistpoty> gn8 ajmitch
<slomo> gn8 ajmitch
<zakame> bye ajmitch
* sistpoty is going to visit his brother. cya later!
<lamont-away> c2hs: i386                                                            # build-depends on ghc{4,5}
<lamont-away> does that mean that it now uses ghc6?
<lamont-away> ENOSISPOTY
<tseng> :)
<lamont-away> and to answer my own question: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 2.0.40), autoconf (>= 2.52), autotools-dev, linuxdoc-tools, groff, ghc5, xutils
<lamont-away> that'd be a 'no' for most of ubuntu, since I'm not bootstrapping ghc5
<lamont-away> %ghc5: i386                                                           # Requires itself to build itself
<markuman> janimo, ping
<slomo> dholbach: new mosml uploaded :) let's see if elmo likes it now
<lamont-away> ajmitch: if it's not in the status page, then it's either (a) arch: all, or (b) PaS
<lamont-away> 697 upgraded, 310 newly installed, 31 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<lamont-away> hoary->breezy upgrade
<janimo> markuman,pong
<slomo> \sh: waah... the plague ;) http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=12042
<markuman> janimo, cant find mousepad version 3 anywhere :-/
<markuman> only version 0.2.2
<\sh> slomo: hu?
<\sh> oh no
<\sh> don't update...do not update ,-)
<slomo> \sh: i don't want to update ;)
<janimo> markumna, hmm let me see I recall I saw it somewhere
* \sh is p*ssed right now....I ordered something yesterday morning, and asked if it's delivered today's morning..."Yes, will be delivered"...but no post delivery service came today...so I'm trying to get a tracking number now from this company...now I'm waiting at least 2 hours for the tracking number
<janimo> markuman, oh it's just a branch in xfce svn, no release yet
<janimo> so we stick witj 0.2.2
<markuman> hm
<janimo> what do you say the bug is?
<janimo> if it's reproducable on breezy current file it in malone so we don;t forget :)
<markuman> "MemoryAccessError" (dirty translation from german error output?!?!) if you want to save (it closed/crashed).
<janimo> I can save files w/o crashing
<janimo> crashes before the save dialog?
<markuman> after
<janimo> save or save as
<janimo> ?
<janimo> and on existing or new file?
<markuman> save and save as - both crashed - new file
<janimo> works fine here..
<janimo> $mousepad
<markuman> existing too
<janimo> write a couple lines
<markuman> hm :-/
<janimo> save
<janimo> close
<janimo> no problem
<janimo> in gnome or xfce?
<markuman> in xfce
<janimo> maybe you could get someone else try it on their system see if it's reproducable elsewhere
<markuman> ok
<janimo> I may log out now, testing sleep/hibernate etc
<markuman> ok cu janimo
<janimo> bye
<bddebian> Heya gang
<janimo> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello janimo
<bddebian> Heya ogra
<bddebian> What do I do if dpkg-shlibs looks for so 13 but can't find it?
<segfault> bddebian: are you going to fix those wrong desktop entries?
<bddebian> segfault: Wrong?
<segfault> bddebian: untranslated..
<segfault> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTranslations
<bddebian> I hadn't planned on it.  I was just looking at missing .desktop bugs listed on Malone :-)
<segfault> humm, ok
<segfault> like #16448 ?
<xerxas> Nafallo: ?
<segfault> should be easy to fix that.
<bddebian> segfault: Is that a bugzilla bug #?
<Nafallo> xerxas: pong
<xerxas> Nafallo: would it be possible to have both xchat and xchat-gnome on the system ?
<zakame> what's the diff between xchat and xchat-gnome?
<Nafallo> xerxas: I wouldn't know. ask the maintainer.
<xerxas> zakame: xchat-gnome is HIG compliant
<xerxas> theorically
<zakame> ah
<zakame> why not put the HIG compliance in the main xchat package?
<xerxas> zakame: because xchat-gnome seems to be a fork
<zakame> i see...
<segfault> bddebian: yes
<bddebian> segfault: I don't look at bugzilla for the most part.  That's main stuff :-)
<segfault> ah, ok
<\sh> wohooo...linksys rocks
<Nafallo> \sh: don't tell me you got what I want? :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: just received it, upgraded to ddwrt ;)
<\sh> enabled ssh, disabled telnet...feels like home ;)
<Nafallo> feels like I'm the only one that doesn't have one ;-(
<janimo> mjg59, is this smt to worry about ? message on resume from sleepError: something went wrong performing real mode call
<bddebian> segfault: I can try to help out if you want though
<janimo> hmm wrong channel
<segfault> bddebian: if you can, that would be nice. It is an annoying string we want to change a long time ago..
<bddebian> segfault: All translations are already there?
<segfault> Not yet, but the desktop entry i believe is critical
<xerxas> anyone able to play this with totem or mplayer : pnm://multimedia.fnac.com/audio/7/1/1/3356570907117A02.ra
<xerxas>  ?
<Mez> lo all
<Yagisan> G'day Mez
<Mez> hows things going?
<zakame> hmmm, if I want to report bugs in universe I report to malone?
<Yagisan> zakame: universe should be malone
<Yagisan> Mez: things are intresting
<zakame> Yagisan: ok
<Yagisan> burned wrong arch breezy iso because I was tired, then blew away my hoary system
<Mez> ogra: apologies for not being around much altely... new job is causing problkems... only online checking email... I'll be back to normal as soon as I get an internet connection sorted out though
<ogra> :)
<ogra> dont worry
<Mez> ogra: I'm working night shifts till all next friday... and I'm at a net cafe now ... :D
<Mez> but.. meh ... :D It cant be helped... I need the money to buy beer at UBZ
<bddebian> Heya Mez
<bddebian> Mez: No excuses ;-P
<\sh> Mez: inofficial repos of mirrormax is shutdowned
<Mez> \sh: *shrugs* I don't have anything to do with that side... john.dong@gmail.com
<Mez> :D
<Mez> siretart: ping
<\sh> Mez: no it's shutdowned since tuesday ;)
<Mez> \sh: I've briefly heard :P but, the "unofficial" stuff... I'm not dealing with as much as the official - just acting as  ago-to and a receptionist
<ivoks> uh
<ivoks> latest breezy still doesn't support sk98lin via netboot :<<<<<<<<
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ivoks> hey :(
<bddebian> :-(  What did I do now? :)
<ivoks> you nothing
<ivoks> i'm just "down" cause i have to recompile kernel, copy modules, and have too much work with sk98lin :(
<bddebian> ivoks: Ah :-(
<\sh> ivoks: what?
<\sh> ivoks: u tested the iso from today?
<ivoks> yeah
<\sh> ivoks: did u file a bug or reported to mjg?
<ivoks> no... not yet
<ivoks> \sh: sk98lin isn't in initrd
<ivoks> that's -9-386
<spayne> yo all
<zakame> hey spacey
<zakame> hey spayne
<spayne> tseng: trying to build again with dpatch :)
<spayne> tseng: ping
<spayne> anyone ping?
<zakame> pong
<spayne> can you help me with dpatch?
<zakame> what about it :)
<zakame> iirc there was a good dpatch howto I found on google not so long ago...
<spacey> hey zakame
<Yagisan> spayne: have you read this http://tseng.ath.cx/log/?p=7
<zakame> wazup spacey?
<spayne> yeh - i think i got it
<spacey> nothing much
<spayne> hmm - it isn't apply the patch
<spayne> any thoughts?
<spayne> what do i need in my debian/rukes?
<zakame> spayne: or http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/253
<Yagisan> for some practical examples - deng at revu uses dpatch
* Yagisan notes he has to fix the dfsg issues with that
<spayne> but neither of those help
<spayne> i have all the bits in my rules but it still fails
<markuman> is it never mind if i upload amd64 or i386 packages in future to revu?
<Yagisan> markuman: just the source packages
<zakame> how big is a breezy buildd chroot made by debootstrap?
<spayne> debian/rules:60: warning: overriding commands for target `patch-stamp'
<spayne> /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make:26: warning: ignoring old commands for target `patch-stamp'
<Yagisan> zakame: about 300MB unpacked
<tseng> brandon@mario:~$ du -cksh /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz
<tseng> 75M	/var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz
<spayne> tseng: ah! please can you help me :-) i followed you howto and the man page for dpatch and it still fails
<zakame> hmmm, so this'll take me all night sucking on dialup :(
<spayne> tseng: i have include /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make just below #!/usr/bin/make -f in my debian/rules
<tseng> no, i cant help you
<spayne> tseng: why? :)
<Yagisan> zakame: you don't have a breezy cd ? do you
<tseng> we've given you several perfectly good docs
<tseng> and
<tseng> i think its twice now ive covered again here every item that you need
<zakame> Yagisan: nope :(
<zakame> and neither do I have access to broadband :(
<markuman> damn, now i believe i did it wrong with my first package :-(
<Yagisan> zakame: :( - when I did my hoary chroots - I told it to use my cd
<Yagisan> zakame: are you already running breezy ?
<zakame> Yagisan: yes, I could do that as well... nope, I'm still on hoary, actually, just newly installed :)
<Yagisan> zakame: I was going to say - if you were running breezy - we could get debootstrap  to reuse your package cache
<Yagisan> to save a big download
<zakame> Yagisan: yeah, that would have been really convenient :D
<Yagisan> markuman: don't worry - it's just a little mistake
<spayne> well, at which point is that patch meant to be applied?
<spayne> before or after configure?
<Yagisan> spayne: that would depend on the patch
<Yagisan> zakame: I feel you pain. I've only had "broadband" now for a few months
<Yagisan> s/you/your
<Yagisan> spayne: please look at eg deng 's debian/rules and compare it to your debian rules
<spayne> according to tseng's blog posting
<spayne> all i need to do is add include /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make to the top of the rules file
<tseng> how many times did we tell you about adding rules yesterday
<tseng> for patch/unpatch
<spayne> i was half a sleep yesterday
<spayne> i added patch/unpatch rules
<tseng> then please go back and read the log
<spayne> and they still failed
<zakame> Yagisan: hopefully, I'll have DSL soon, or maybe wi-fi with a new laptop...
<spayne> tseng: why are you giving me a hard time? i'm new and learning a lot atm and it is difficult to remember every single thing :)
<tseng> spayne: i gave you a very easy time several times yesterday
<tseng> and you are still here asking for a hand holding
<tseng> after being pointed in all the right directions
<tseng> patience is gone
<zakame> spayne: 'tis always good to have a hipster pda around :))
<Yagisan> zakame: I'm just on the limit for ADSL here, just a few more unit blocks over and I would stll be on dialup
<Yagisan> s/stll/still
<spayne> tseng: you can't ask docs for help though
<zakame> waah!
<spayne> zakame: lol
<bddebian> Hmm, maybe I'll move off tseng 's shitlist now.. :-)
<Yagisan> spayne: looking here http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/deng-0508231655/deng-1.8.9+1.9.0beta2/debian/rules
<Yagisan> how does your rules differ ?
<ivoks> bye all
<ivoks> bye bddebian ;)
<Yagisan> bye ivoks
<bddebian> Later ivoks
<spayne> by ivoks
<spayne> Yagisan: that helps A LOT! thanks
<Yagisan> spayne: I mentioned it like twice already now !
* Yagisan is waiting for my breezy cd to finish burning
<spayne> i've never used REVU before :)
<Yagisan> spayne: well, that's where your packages will go through - before they go to Ubuntu
<spayne> right
<spayne> YES! IT WORKED
<spayne> thanks guys
<spayne> or not...
<Yagisan> no worries
* Yagisan will be gone for a while - 2 servers + 4 pcs to upgrade to breezy now
<spayne> Yagisan: have fun :-)
<Yagisan> spayne: yay - they have to be up and running for work in 4 hours
* Yagisan gets red bull too
<zakame> red bull as in the energy drink?
<Yagisan> zakame: yes
<Yagisan> its 2:30am here
<zakame> oh, just a couple of hours in advance...
<zakame> have fun then :)
<spayne> oh yeh!
<spayne> all done properly
<spayne> resapplet is finished
<spayne> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> pong
<spayne> dholbach: thanks to tseng and Yagisan, i have resapplet build properly with dpatch so i've put a new version for you to test (if you can) when you get a mo
<tseng> yay
<dholbach> spayne: please write a mail with the location... it's much more likely, i'll have a look at it then, i'm QUITE busy at the moment
<spayne> kk
<spayne> address@
<spayne> address
<spayne> address?
<dholbach> spayne: dh@mailempfang.de
<spayne> http://www.evolutioncolt.com/~spayne/packages/resapplet for all who want to test it out
<spayne> \sh: yo
<spayne> opinion people
<spayne> i want to package up Browser Bookmarks Menu for Universe (http://browserbookapp.sourceforge.net/)
<spayne> and i want some ideas on naming
<spayne> the source package is browser-bookmarks-menu
<spayne> shall i stick with it as a name?
<seth_k> maybe gnome-bookmarks-menu ?
<bddebian> Heya seth_k, \sh
<seth_k> hi bddebian
<\sh> grmpf
<bddebian> \sh: grmpf?  What kind of greeting is that? :-)
<bddebian> Where can I put install commands in rules in a cdbs package?
<dholbach> you could deploy a <package>.install file
<dholbach> or use  dh_install  in the ... *looking up* target
<bddebian> dholbach: There's one already there
<dholbach> doesnt work?
<bddebian> But I didn't have any luck with that on my last attempt :-)
<dholbach> install/<package>::
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> somethings wrong with the router
<spayne> need some MORE help :)
<spayne> this is a different type of package
<spayne> since there is no compiling needed
<spayne> i need to copy a file into /usr/lib
<spayne> so i put this in the rules file
<spayne> install -m 755 browser-bookmarks-menu.py /usr/lib/browser-bookmarks-menu/browser-bookmarks-menu.py
<spayne> and it failed with mkdir: cannot create directory `debian/browser-bookmarks-menu/usr/lib/browser-bookmarks-menu/': No such file or directory
<dholbach> /usr/lib/.... will be on the building machine
<dholbach> which is the build daemon
<dholbach> nobody would like that :)
<spayne> where i am going wrong?
<dholbach> /usr/lib/bla is an absolute path on the building maching
<dholbach> machine
<spayne> right
<dholbach> that's where you want to install a file to
<dholbach> that's wrong
<spayne> is there a man page or a docu page which will tell me the right thing?
<dholbach> you can look at other python packages
<dholbach> or read the debian documentation
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingTips has a couple of links that might be useful
<bddebian> Anyone else get an FTBFS with enlightenment?
<\sh> damn...only problems...
<\sh> brb
<dholbach> bddebian: which one? in the archive?
<bddebian> dholbach: Aye
<dholbach> some guy wanted to get us the new enlightenment
<dholbach> bddebian: i'll try to build it
<bddebian> Pukes on XineramaIsActive in rox.c
<spayne> cdbs looks too complicated
<dholbach> spayne: it's much easier, trust me
<spayne> is cdbs meant to help me w/ the install thing?
<dholbach> man dh_install - you will need it in the cdbs thing
<dholbach> bddebian: build nicely for me - at least it's in the packaging stage
<dholbach> bddebian: built
<\sh> ok...wpa-psk + dhcp + madwifi == are not compatible in our shipped version
<\sh> wpa-psk + static route + madwifi == works
<ivoks> hi
<bddebian> dholbach: The new one or the one in the archive?
<bddebian> Bah, meeting :-(
<dholbach> bddebian: in the archive
<ivoks> hi alll
<ivoks> lllllll :)
<ivoks> one question... why do we build nvidia module upon start?
<ivoks> wow
<ivoks> nice move IBM :))
<ivoks> lenovo will sell consumer PCs with Linux
<dholbach> wow
<dholbach> i mean i never installed windows on my laptop, but still :)
<slomo> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/30/135259&from=rss
<slomo> rofl
<dholbach> YEAH! :)
<dereks_> does htis mean i am going to start shoplifting?
* dholbach always knew slomo was one of the naughty guys
<dholbach> :-p
<ivoks> dholbach: ?
<slomo> sure... but shoplifting is for kids :P real man do bankrobbing ;)
<dholbach> ivoks: he's one of the cheating and shoplifting guys
<ivoks> dholbach: ? is for windows :)
<ivoks> i don't bother browsing trough ./
<dholbach> ivoks: ah ok... i got myself an ibm laptop, but i never used the silly windows on it :)
<hub_> ivoks: including laptops?
<hub_> dholbach: did you ask for a refund :-)
* hub_ needs a new laptop anyway
<ivoks> hub_: HP sells laptops with ubuntu :)
<hub_> ivoks: compaq?
<ivoks> what else? :)
<dholbach> hub_: i should have :)
<hub_> ivoks: any or just selected crap?
* hub_ want something like the X40 IBM
<slomo> ibooks are also good for running ubuntu ;)
<ivoks> hub_: more important is where :)
<ivoks> hub_: not in USA
<hub_> my 5 yr old PowerBook is dying
<ivoks> hub_: or canada...
<dholbach> hub_: it's awesome, get it
<hub_> slomo: no because of wireless
* ivoks has inspiron 8600
<hub_> dholbach: yeah, but I miss cash for that
<slomo> hub_: ok, good argument ;) but i have an usb wireless thing so...
<dholbach> i got mine on ebay :)
<hub_> dholbach: and it might beat my desktop
<hub_> dholbach: that does not mean I have cash for that either
* ivoks will have RHEL :)
<dholbach> the only thing i don't like about it, is that the disk is slow
<ivoks> and RHCE :)
<slomo> http://beta.news.com.com/Ubuntu+carves+niche+in+Linux+landscape/2100-7344_3-5886194.html?tag=nefd.lede
<slomo> new article ;)
<dholbach> but alright.. it's a laptop
<hub_> ivoks: and does it cost less with ubuntu?
<ivoks> hub_: what? HP?
<hub_> ivoks: yep
<ivoks> hub_: sure. you don't have to pay for a liscense
<ivoks> license
<hub_> ivoks: well, even Linux laptop sellers sells you a license of windows
<ivoks> not in my country
<Burgundavia> hub_, not some
<hub_> Burgundavia: all the "good brand"
<ivoks> slomo: jdub :)
<slomo> ivoks: ?
<ivoks> slomo: ...said Jeff Waugh
<ivoks> slomo: on that link
<slomo> ah... yes =)
<ivoks> nice one!!!
<ivoks> But the project most likely to benefit from Ubuntu's success is Debian
* \sh <- dinner
* ivoks <- going out :)
* \sh would like to go out as well...but has to work tomorrow :(
* dereks_ is off tomorrow!
<dholbach> have a nice evening
<slomo> dholbach: you'll leave too?
<\sh> cu dholbach have a nice one
<dholbach> yep
<dholbach> thank you
<slomo> ok... then have a nice evening too :)
<\sh> I'M installing warty now in vmware and upgrading to hoary and then to breezy
<slomo> \sh: can you test something for me?
<\sh> slomo: with warty? ;)
<\sh> slomo: I'm trying to reproduce found bug http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16539
<slomo> \sh: yes... install mono there and try if it works after everything in breezy :)
<\sh> slomo: k
<dereks_> how is the hoary->breezy on amd64... any major known problems?
<bddebian> Bah dholbach, you can't go
<dholbach> bddebian: why is that?
<bddebian> dholbach: I wanna know how/why enlightenment built for you :-)
<crimsun> ebuntu?
<dholbach> bddebian: was on a amd64, maybe?
<bddebian> Yours was?
<dholbach> yes
<bddebian> SHix, OK, thx
<slomo> oh no :( eclipse fails on amd64...
<bddebian> Damn, another bug I can't close then.. :-(
<crimsun> slomo, (yes, I'm aware of transcode ftbfs on amd64, working on it.)
<crimsun> &ppc
<slomo> crimsun: eclipse not transcode :) but thanks for working on that :)
<crimsun> trying to triage the whole ffmpeg mess
<slomo> killing upstream might be the easier solution ;) this api/abi instability is annoying...
<bddebian> Why does everything have to be a PITA?
<slomo> bddebian: probably because we only remember the hard stuff... and the stuff that takes long
<\sh> bah
<\sh> 10 mins for warty security updates ,)
<bddebian> aren't packages supposed to use gksudo instead of gksu?
<slomo> yes... fix it ;)
<bddebian> Well I discovered that while looking at a mime issue with gnome-apt
<bddebian> but the gdeb.mime for that package looks whacky
<bddebian> slomo: You know anything about .mime files?
<slomo> not really
<\sh> slomo: which mono app shuold I install on warty?
<slomo> \sh: what do we have in warty? tomboy maybe
<\sh> I'll check
<\sh> slomo: no
<\sh> orgnarf.
<\sh> no
<\sh> not there ;)
<slomo> ok... tseng? what do we have in warty? =)
<tseng> hm?
<tseng> muine
<tseng> whats the point here
<slomo> seeing if mono works after updating from warty to breezy
<slomo> as \sh already tests something else it won't hurt ;)
<tseng> oh
<tseng> ok
<\sh> muine?
<tseng> muine.
<\sh> also not
<dereks_> f-spot
<\sh> not in warty(main+restricted+universe+multiverse)
<\sh> nope
<spayne> yo dereks_
<dereks_> yo spayne
<\sh> what was the name of this mono blog reader
<\sh> ?
<slomo> blam
<dereks_> \sh: what about monodevelop
<\sh> bingo..blam is in
<\sh> slomo: thx
<spayne> dholbach: ping
<spayne> any MOTUs: ping
<thesaltydog> spayne, why instead of pinging don't you try putting your question? Never know, someone could reply!
<spayne> i need a MOTU to look at my packages for resapplet after they have been rebuilding with the help of dholbach
<spayne> and upload them if possible as my GPG ain't signed yet
<thesaltydog> spayne, you have to be patient and wait for a MOTU. They are quite overloaded in this period...
<spayne> will do
<markuman> ive got problems. ive build a package with debuilder. everything was fine and everything was generated. but with dpu name.changes he upload not the orig.tar.gz :-/ but he upload the .deb file
<\sh> debuild -S -sa for generating .changes including sources
<\sh> after this, pbuilder build package.dsc
<\sh> to test the build of the package
<\sh> and then you can upload ;)
<\sh> and now I'm off to bed :)
<markuman> hm \sh ok thx i will try!
<markuman> gn8 \sh
<\sh> we will get new hp servers tomorrow delivered from frankfurt to our dc...and we have to rackmount them, configure them, test them and going to bed with them :(
<\sh> cu tomorrow evening somehow
<markuman> hm debuild -S -sa dont has generate a orig.tar.gz. only a programmname.tar.gz - is it ok or still wrong?
<thesaltydog> markuman, debuild -S -sa will not "generate" the orig.tar.gz, you must have it. It will include it in upload.
<markuman> thesaltlydog, hm. the orig.tar.gz is the original source from website or a new copy from the src on my hdd?
<markuman> something runs wrong to me today :-/
<thesaltydog> markuman, http://www.debian.org/doc/devel-manuals#maint-guide
<markuman> thx
<bddebian> Later gang
<zyga> hello
<markuman> hi
<zyga> anyone with 3d accelleration willing to confirm a bug?
<zyga> apt-get install celestia
<AstralJava> zyga: Done, then what?
<zyga> AstralJava: please run it from the terminal
<zyga> AstralJava: it segfaults for me
<AstralJava> zyga: Many, many errors.
<AstralJava> It's a KDE app?
<zyga> what kind of graphic card you have?
<zyga> AstralJava: no, neither
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-06
<AstralJava> It's an ATI 9000 Radeon Mobility.
<zyga> same here
<AstralJava> Okay, just some of the error messages pointed towards KDE
<zyga> do you use fglrx?
<zyga> hmm
<AstralJava> Yeah.
<zyga> I've double checked
<AstralJava> celestia: WARNING: Can't open /home/jaska/.kde/share/apps/konqueror/bookmarks.xml
<zyga> celestia is the kde frontend
<AstralJava> Okay.
<zyga> celestia-gnome is the gnome frontend
<AstralJava> Right on.
<zyga> (really stiupid IMHO)
<zyga> did it crash in the end?
<AstralJava> It did.
<AstralJava> celestia: ERROR: Communication problem with celestia, it probably crashed.
<zyga> okay thanks
<AstralJava> No prob.
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> must  fix   more    bugs
<ajmitch> bddebian: got to catch up with me now? ;)
<bddebian> Did you pass me?
<ajmitch> yep
<bddebian> @#$%^%&#$\
<ajmitch> I was ahead in karma by about 150 yesterday
<bddebian> Damnit
<ajmitch> fixed a few more since then
<bddebian> WTF d00d
<bddebian> Guess I'm not playing video games tonight ;-P
<ajmitch> got a few more on my list to fix once the syncs come through
<ajmitch> and others that are almost there ;0
<bddebian> What are we up/down to?
<ajmitch> back up to 503 open
<bddebian> fux
<ajmitch> 506 now
<ajmitch> people keep reporting more bugs
<bddebian> WHAT?
<bddebian> Grrr
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> that's expected :)
<bddebian> I think you should help my dumb ass with gnat-gps
<ajmitch> why?
<bddebian> To get it off the UnmetDeps list
<bddebian> fucking w000t
<ajmitch> ?
<bddebian> I got the mime xml file for gnome-apt to work
<ajmitch> k
* ajmitch sadly can't do much malone fixing today
<bddebian> Why not homey?  Isn't it Sat. for you?
<ajmitch> yes, it is
<ajmitch> but I've got other packages to fix
<bddebian> Like gnat-gps? ;-)
<ajmitch> I promised ogra that I'd fix up moodle for him today
<bddebian> Elmo synced that eieio package or whatever that guy was asking for last night :-)
<ajmitch> i couldn't care less about gnat-gps, but moodle is needed for edubuntu :)
<bddebian> You just don't love me :'-(
<ajmitch> I've been waiting a couple of days for elmo to sync something for me
<bddebian> Guess you just are SPECIAL like me ;-P
<ajmitch> and about 3 weeks for my key, so yes I am special :P
<bddebian> Doh
<ajmitch> bddebian: umm
<bddebian> ?
<ajmitch> you put in the *whole* changelog for gnome-apt
<bddebian> ??
<ajmitch> see breezy-changes
<ajmitch> the whole set of changes shows there, not just your fix :P
<bddebian> It's a newer version
<ajmitch> yes..
<ajmitch>  gnome-apt (0.3.2) unstable; urgency=low
<ajmitch>  .
<ajmitch>    * Updated to glibc2.1 and libapt-pkg2.4
<bddebian> I guess I really should subscribe to breezy-changes
<ajmitch> did you *really* update from a package that old? ;)
<bddebian> Am I supposed to hack that stuff out?
* ajmitch sighs
<ajmitch> when you did debuild, or whatever, what options did you pass?
<bddebian> -S -sa
<bddebian> -v<current version>
<ajmitch> don't rip it out of the changelog
<ajmitch> the -v seems to have grabbed everything
<bddebian> Ugh
<bddebian> Think anyone will freak if I build a newer enlightenment?
<ajmitch> how much newer?
<ajmitch> and what changes?
<ajmitch> let's just say that if you broke something like enlightenment this close to release, we would be calling in a lynch mob straight away :)
<bddebian> Well it FTBFs's for me
<ajmitch> is the binary in the archive working?
<bddebian> There's a bug posted for it but nothing too exciting
<bddebian> 0.16.6-3ubuntu2 to 0.16.7.2-1 :-)
<ajmitch> oh, UVF, too
* ajmitch is naturally wary of breaking UVF for packages like that
<bddebian> You're just trying to keep me from fixing more bugs.. ;-P
<ajmitch> don't be stupid
<ajmitch> I'm trying to keep the distro sane :P
<bddebian> Bah, you're no fun :-)
<ajmitch> now the e16 bug on malone is the lack of a session file to show in gdm?
<ajmitch> and current e16 ftbfs?
<ajmitch> no, I'm not meant to be fun
<bddebian> It does for me.  dholbach said it built for him on amd64
<ajmitch> I'm going to try here in pbuilder
<ajmitch> argh
<ajmitch> once apt-proxy & apt work nicely
* bddebian +2
<ajmitch> :P
<ajmitch> I'll still catch you, don't worry
<bddebian> Had a chance to try enlightenment yet?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> takes awhile for me to build stuff
<ajmitch> since I have obsolete hardware
<bddebian> OK
<ajmitch> if you want to ship me a nice fast box... ;)
<bddebian> How fast?
<ajmitch> athlon 64 X2 4800+ would be nice
<bddebian> Shiite.  If I win the lottery :-)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> it would have to have 4GB of RAM at least
<ajmitch> maybe 10K RPM SATA drives..
<bddebian> OK, look at bug #2690.  Ogra added a desktop file in June and this bug just got reported on 9/25 ??
<tseng> maybe they were using hoary
<bddebian> That was my thought
* bddebian closes it
<bddebian> I still don't understand how we have all of these packages with completely missing deps and/or build deps
<bddebian> Why would ghemical have been brought in without libghemical?
<ajmitch> enlightenment still building...
<bddebian> Mwuhaha
* bddebian 's plan is working.. ;-P
<ajmitch> because I know you're just trying to stop all the MOTUs from actually fixing the distro :P
<bddebian> Oh yeah that's me
<bddebian> Hell, I'm trying to kick them in the ass ;-P
<ajmitch> yep
* ajmitch marks another one fixed
<bddebian> Damn you.. :-)
<ajmitch> should I reject 2576, I wonder?
* bddebian starts closing random bugs ;-P
<ajmitch> we'll have to beat you severely if you do that
<bddebian> Bah, you'll have to catch me and you are all to scared to come to the US ;-P
<bddebian> I thought we couldn't reject main bugs anymore?
* ajmitch will be in the US in a few weeks :P
<ajmitch> probably not
<ajmitch> which is why I've held off from rejecting for now
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<bddebian> LaserJock: I'm trying libghemical right now
<LaserJock> hi!
<LaserJock> really, cool
<LaserJock> which libghemical?
<bddebian> 1.90-1
<LaserJock> with or without mopac?
<bddebian> I don't see mopac as a dep
<LaserJock> is it from Debian?
<bddebian> Yes
<LaserJock> that would be why. It should work ok
<LaserJock> i'm pretty disapointed that they didn't include mopac in the Debian build
<bddebian> Bah, wtf am I doing?  I should be watching pr0n or playing video games :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: enlightenment built fine here in pbuilder, no FTBFS
<bddebian> No error on rox.c with XineramaIsActive?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> debs are all built
<ajmitch> I just did apt-get source enlightenment
<ajmitch> and pbuilder build on the dsc
<bddebian> Weird
* bddebian +1
<ajmitch> :P
* ajmitch is too busy gossipping
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> Hey we're back at 500
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> marking a bug as PendingUpload takes down the bug count, btw
<bddebian> Coolio
<ajmitch> now I'm 2 bugs behind you
<ajmitch> I'd better get to work
<bddebian> I really was going to play Fable tonight you prick ;-P
<ajmitch> so go & play
<ajmitch> don't let any imagined competition stop you ;)
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> bddebian: did libghemical build for you?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yep.  I'm gonna try ghemical then ask elmo for a sync if it builds
<LaserJock> good
<ajmitch> bddebian: should I do a 'call for bugs' on the users list to get more people filing bugs for you? ;)
<bddebian> Uhm no thanks.  I still have old unwanted broken packages to fix too :-)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> unmet deps still has a few that need love
* ajmitch logs into his long-neglected SF account :)
<ajmitch> probably been a couple of years since I used that
<bddebian> OK, wordtrans is pissing me off :-(
<ajmitch> might be a good idea to fix it then ;)
<bddebian> What is the diff between wordtrans-qt.dirs and wordtrans-qt.files?
<bddebian>  .files just includes dirs??
<ajmitch> erm
<bddebian> nm, I'm on crack :-(
<ajmitch> first thing I see is phpapiver needs fixed
<ajmitch> bddebian: what issues does it have?
<bddebian> It builds, I just keep fscking up the .desktop file install :-)
<ajmitch> oh right
<ajmitch> and the unmet dep?
<bddebian> It has an unmet dep?
<bddebian> It install for me
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> they're not even using the phpapiver in the rules
<ajmitch> dodgy packaging :)
<bddebian> It's a piece of crap.  I swear every other line yields a warning :-)
<ajmitch> I coud believe that
<bddebian> LaserJock: OK, I have asked elmo to sync ghemical/libghemical
<LaserJock> great
<LaserJock> but, should I bug the Debian maintainer to get mopac or should I just leave it alone?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Does debian have mopac?
<bddebian> BTW, is does depen mpgc.  Is that different?
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<LaserJock> yep, and it builds ok
<LaserJock> yeah, infact I think that mopac is more important than mpqc
<bddebian> Give me a bit and maybe I'll try mopac
<tritium> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Goddamnit.  Can someone explain to me how the fuck dh_movefiles works?  It's totally fscking up my desktop and icon installs :-(
<ajmitch> it moves files, unlike dh_install
<bddebian> Based on what though?
<LaserJock> bddebian: I gotta go, did you get a chance to look at mopac?
<bddebian> Yep, I asked for a sync
<LaserJock> of mopac too?
<bddebian> Yep
<LaserJock> that is way cool 8-)
<bddebian> Now I'm going to bed. :-)
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<LaserJock> met oo
<LaserJock> too
<LaserJock> cya
<jmg> bug day alright ;)
* jmg smmokes his cigar
<ajmitch> hello jmg
* zakame celebrates building a new breezy chroot
* jmg celebrates fixing bug in kvpnc
* jsgotangco celebrates for nothing and decides to get a can of beer
<jmg> whats the "right way" for me to submit a source diff to malone?
<jmg> i have modified the source tree from apt-get source and my built package fixes the bug
<jmg> now what?
<\sh> damn...have to leave for office...it's already late
<jsgotangco> work on saturday?
<crimsun_> what the...
<ajmitch> ?
<crimsun_> I'm perplexed why my irc client decided to reconnect then disconnect
<ajmitch> because irc is like that
<crimsun_> I'll just nod and overlook it (since the other six irc networks didn't budge)
<ajmitch> this is freenode after all
<crimsun_> true ;)
<mikhail^> good day everyone, how do i get the source package for universe hosted packages?
<mikhail^> "sudo apt-get source longrun" doesn't do it for me...
<Treenaks> apt-get source packagename
<Treenaks> mikhail^: is there a deb-src line for universe in /etc/apt/sources.list?
<mikhail^> Treenaks: lemme check
<jsgotangco> mikhail^: ah you must have forgotten deb-src
<mikhail^> Treenaks: yes. i do.
<Treenaks> mikhail^: what's the error message then
<ajmitch> hoary or breezy source?
<mikhail^> says deb-src http://ph.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary-updates main restricted
<mikhail^> hoary...
<Treenaks> mikhail^: yes, that's main and restricted
<irvin> mikhail^, you forgot the universe
<Treenaks> mikhail^: now the universe one
<ajmitch> mikhail^: which doesn't include universe, and is hoary-updates, not hoary
<irvin> main restricted universe
<mikhail^> ack, okay. it's commented out. thanks. :)
<ajmitch> and it won't be in hoary-updates, I'd say
<irvin> i usually have main restricted universe multiverse
<jsgotangco> irvin: yup those are the repos but he needs the source, its deb and deb-src are different and not all people need deb-src
<mikhail^> okay, now i have another question... I did an "apt-get source longrun", and I get two directories and one diff...
<mikhail^> which sources can i modify to maky my diff from?
<mikhail^> s/maky/make/g
<ajmitch> you should get one directory
<ajmitch> dpkg-source: extracting longrun in longrun-0.9
<ajmitch> that's the directory name there
<mikhail^> ajmitch: but i have 2 directories, one longrun-0.9/, another longrun/,
<mikhail^> ajmitch: and there's a longrun-0.9.diff.gz
<ajmitch> not sure where longrun/ came from, since I just did apt-get source longrun to demonstrate :)
<ajmitch> longrun-0.9 has the .diff.gz applied already
<ajmitch> as that diff.gz contains the debian packaging
<ajmitch> so make your change, put a new version in debian/changelog
<ajmitch> eg with: longrun (0.9-17) unstable; urgency=low
<ajmitch> you'd make a new version 0.9-17ubuntu1
<mikhail^> ajmitch: okay, thanks... after that, what do I do to share the changes with others? do i inform the package maintainer only of my proposed changes?
<ajmitch> you can share it with us :)
<mikhail^> ajmitch: okay, thanks.
* mikhail^ starts hacking.
<ajmitch> and we can look at it & get it into breezy
<mikhail^> ajmitch: basically i'm making the tool a bit more user friendly by adding config file reading support and environment variable support.
<ajmitch> ok
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: this should have been done in IntroDeveloperDocs but i haven't seen it done at all
<mikhail^> ajmitch: if you look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LongRunHowTo it's not really very easy to use the longrun utility.
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: IntroDeveloperDocs has been promised 'real soon now' for a little while, I know Unfrgiven has been busy at work though
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: its October today..heh
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: I know :/
<jsgotangco> i could have whipped it up a bit if i saw Unfrgiven
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: we were really wanting to get good docs for this near the start of breezy
<ajmitch> I guess we shouldn't have left it to one person
<jsgotangco> :/
<tseng> should have done it myself
<ajmitch> there's a lot we could cover
<ajmitch> hello tseng
<tseng> hi
<jsgotangco> hey tseng
<ajmitch> yay, daylight savings starts in a few hours
<ajmitch> 1 hour less sleep
<tseng> haha not on our side
<ajmitch> so I'll be UTC+13 until march or so
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> what's the weather now
<ajmitch> not too bad, it's fairly mild all year
<jsgotangco> have you fixed your stuff already for UBZ?
<ajmitch> fixed what?
<jsgotangco> travel arrangements
<ajmitch> oh, yeah
* ajmitch was thinking of fixed packages :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<ajmitch> since I've got to do a bit of that for UBZ
<ajmitch> but my package fixing might be a couple of weeks of solid work post-release
<tseng> sigh, its impossible to find wallpaper at 1400x1050
<rob^> yep
<ajmitch> evening rob^ :)
<rob^> hi ajmitch
<mikhail^> another question... is there a way to add alias settings to /etc/profile when a package is installed?
<ajmitch> I doubt /etc/profile
<tseng> that sounds evil
<ajmitch> is there a directory instead?
<tseng> why would a package add aliases
<jsgotangco> the_mitsubis?
<jsgotangco> mitsubishi?
<jsgotangco> hehe
<rob^> ?
<rob^> looks like there is a nick char limit
<rob^> oddly it looks like it looks like they missed something when they re-designed this ircd
<mikhail^> tseng: to set default values for a command's arguments/options ?
<ajmitch> mikhail^: oh that is evil
<mikhail^> ajmitch: yeah. well, just had to ask still.
<mikhail^> i'll be putting in defaults in the code instead, to keep it a little "smarter"
<ajmitch> oh that's encouraging - go to www.serverpronto.com (a hosting company) and their mysql server is dead in the water
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: weee for the loco teams
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: ?
<ajmitch> I'm missing something here :)
<jsgotangco> server pronto is the one to be used by the loco teams
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> doesn't surprise me, as I got the url from sounder
<jsgotangco> the linodes didn't do well apparently
<tseng> they are using both
<tseng> according to sounder
<Yagisan> hmm - my new breezy install didn't go so smooth
<ajmitch> report ze bugs!
<tseng> im using linode right now
<jsgotangco> tseng: we're using one too, but our load ain't that big
<Yagisan> second stage of the installer craped out because I tried to put / on jfs
<Yagisan> complained that module jfs wasn't found
<jsgotangco> brb
<spayne> yo all
<slomo> morning :)
<spayne> how is you?
<slomo> tired ;) i slept to long... but what was your package you wanted to have reviewed? i can take a look now
<spayne> yes! http://www.evolutioncolt.com/~spayne/packages/resapplet
<spayne> resapplet - dholbach helped me build it properly so no ./autogen.sh is needed
<slomo> ok, isn't ok anyway ;) resapplet_0.0.7+cvs2005.09.30-0ubuntu4.tar.gz <--- this is not the original tarball, isn't it? just copy the original one next to it... resapplet_0.0.7+cvs2005.09.30.orig.tar.gz
<slomo> and then rerun debuild/dpkg-buildpackage to get a diff against that
<spayne> well..
<spayne> what we did was
<spayne> pull it from GNOME CVS
<spayne> ran autogen.sh and make dsit
<spayne> which gave us that tarball
<spayne> the, unpacked the tarball and started to get it building
<spayne> so that one IS the original unmodifed code
<slomo> i doubt it... make dist would never do a tarball with -0ubuntu4 at the end except the upstream version is 0.0.7+cvs2005.09.30-0ubuntu4
<spayne> i renammed the tarball
<slomo> ok... and this tarball now contains everything, including debian directory... so please do the following:
<spayne> whoops!
<slomo> get a new clean tarball, rename it to resapplet_0.0.7+cvs2005.09.30.orig.tar.gz... go to your directory with all your changes and rerun dpkg-buildpackage or debuild
<slomo> the orig.tar.gz should be in the parent directory
<spayne> hat is very different to what dholbach told me :-)
<spayne> we did a debuild -S (or something)
<spayne> then a pbuild
<spayne> from the .dsc
<spayne> i might have a .orig on my machine
<spayne> give me a mo
<slomo> yes... you'll do it now too... running debuild -S when you have the orig tarball in the parent directory...
<slomo> this will create you a diff.gz against the orig tarball
<spayne> i do
<spayne> i have a .orig.tar.gz
<spayne> let me put in on my webspace
<spayne> it is on now
<spayne> brb
<slomo> wait :P
<slomo> you have to rerun debuild -S... the dsc contains only the changed tarball
<slomo> and the diff is missing
<lazyb0y> hi
<spayne> bacj
<spayne> the debuild didn't make a diff
<slomo> then you don't have a orig.tar.gz in the parent directory
<spayne> it make a dsc, asc, another tar.gz, source.build and sources.change
<slomo> at least none with the correct name
<spayne> in which parent diectory?
<slomo> parent of your source directory
<slomo> next to the tarball which is now created
<spayne> it keeps doing 'building resapplet in resapplet_0.0.7+cvs2005.09.30-0ubuntu4.tar.gz'
<slomo> what is your orig tarball named?
<spayne> resapplet-0.0.7+cvs2005.09.30.orig.tar.gz
<ajmitch> change the - to _
<slomo> exactly
<spayne> yes!
<spayne> then what do i run after the debuild?
<spayne> i have a orig.tar.gz, diff.gz, dcs, source.build and source.changes
<slomo> nothing... just upload dsc, orig.tar.gz and diff.gz
<slomo> i'll search for something to eat now ;) brb
<spayne> done
<spayne> what next
<mikhail^> in valgrind output, what does it mean to have still reachable blocks, but 0 definitely lost and 0 possibly lost memory?
<slomo> spayne: wait for me to look at it ;)
<zyga> mikhail^: it means that some memory was not freed
<zyga> mikhail^: but also - thah no memory was leaked
<zyga> it's okay
<mikhail^> zyga: neat! thanks. :)
<slomo> spayne: many spelling mistakes in the changelog ;)
* spayne goes to look
<spayne> chanin' them
<slomo> copyright needs to be modified... include the full 3 paragraphs of the gpl there... and include also the other copyright holders... there's at least robert love
<spayne> just rml as well
<spayne> 3 paragraphs?
<slomo> make the rules a bit smaller by removing the commented out, unneeded calls to dh_* and the comment about sample rules file at the top ;)
<spayne> there is more than that in the GP
<spayne> there is more than that in the GPL
<spayne> which 3
<slomo> the 3 paragraphs you normally see at each header of source files... wait, i'll search for a sample
<slomo> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/fatsort-0509090945/fatsort-0.9.4/debian/copyright
<spayne> anything else?
<slomo> the copyright line itself (copyright (c) 2005 by bla) and the two paragraphs starting with "this program"
<slomo> (C) Copyright 1999 Red Hat, Inc.
<slomo> for the eggtrayicon
<slomo> clipboard i mean
<slomo> Copyright (C) 2002 Anders Carlsson <andersca@gnu.org>
<slomo> for eggtrayicon
<spayne> which copyright line
<spayne> in the copyright file?
<slomo> what do you mean?
<spayne> " the copyright line itself"
<spayne> where?
<spayne> ??
<slomo> there really is none for the resapplet itself... hrm... but for the other stuff... and there is also lgpl code in there so mention this too
<slomo> ajmitch?
<spayne> where is the copyright line?
<spayne> switching machines
<spayne> brb
<slomo> for the other stuff? in the sourcefiles
<ajmitch> yes?
<slomo> for the other stuff? in the sourcefiles
<spayne> back
<spayne> right, what were we saying?
<ajmitch> I haven't been following, ask me a question rather than a statement :P
<slomo> ajmitch: what to do when there is no line which explicitly states who has the copyright? there's only the two authors mentioned in the sourcefile...
<spayne> what is the confusion about
<spayne> rml and nat wrote the programme
<spayne> so their names go into the copyright file
<ajmitch> slomo: I guess so
* ajmitch is a little distracted right now
<spayne> so..what do i need to change?
<slomo> ajmitch: tell him, i have to leave now =) bbl
* ajmitch doesn't have time at the moment, sorry
<spayne> what is the copyright problem
<mikhail^> okay, how do I create a debian package with my modifications?
<mikhail^> err, an ubuntu package with my modifications?
<mikhail^> do i do it with apt-get ?
<ajmitch> debuild
<mikhail^> ajmitch: do i invoke that in the project base directory?
<ajmitch> yes
<spayne> hmm - i've just been through all that
<ajmitch> debuild -S to make a source package
<mikhail^> ajmitch: what pacakge do i need to get to have debuild?
<ajmitch> devscripts
<mikhail^> ajmitch: thanks! :)
<ajmitch> spayne: since I haven't looked at your package yet I don't know just what you need
<spayne> ajmitch: neither do i - i've got the bits on my webspace at http://www.evolutioncolt.com/~spayne/packages/resapplet
<spayne> and slomo was checking them
<spayne> and he was saying something about the COPYRIGHT file
<spayne> and i was confused
<mikhail^> ajmitch: do i need to make it with -S in my case if i want to share it with others?
<ajmitch> mikhail^: if you want this package to be reviewed, yes :)
<ajmitch> debuild by itself builds the binary package
<mikhail^> ajmitch: okay. :)
<mikhail^> ajmitch: well, i have a problem here... dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: groff
<mikhail^> ajmitch: ack, I'll just install it then... :D
<ajmitch> yeah.. :)
<spayne> i've redone the packages with the changes slomo suggested
<spayne> i think i might give monopod a go for packaging
<ajmitch> already done
<spayne> is it?
<spayne> it ain't in universe
<ajmitch> see revu
<spayne> why is it at tauware.de btw?
<ajmitch> because that's where the domain is..
<ajmitch> siretart put the server on his domain
<spayne> right
<spayne> just wondering why it isn't in universe yet
<zakame> hi all
<ajmitch> hello zakame
<spayne> yo zakame
<spayne> ajmitch: does it need a advocate before it can be put into universe
<ajmitch> spayne: YES
<ajmitch> sorry
<spayne> ajmitch: got it
<spayne> ajmitch: sorry but remember i'm new to all this
* ajmitch has fat fingers tonight
<ajmitch> I didn't mean to put caps there :)
<spayne> oh right :)
<ajmitch> although it's fairly obvious that we're not going to stick any old package in universe :)
<spayne> yeh
<ajmitch> 2 MOTUs need to advocate before it goes in
* spayne is downlaoading the .diff.gz, orig.tar.gz and .dsc to build Monopod
<mikhail^> okay, done creating the packages. Now what?
<spayne> mikhail^: which package is it?
<mikhail^> spayne: I made changes to longrun, for config file support...
<spayne> right
<ajmitch> mikhail^: can you make a debdiff for us?
<ajmitch> debdiff package_version1.dsc package_version2.dsc
<mikhail^> ajmitch: okay, hang on a sec
<mikhail^> ajmitch: do i do this as root?
<ajmitch> no
<zakame> mikhail^: iirc you don't have to
<mikhail^> zakame: w00t! dudeness, whatap?
<mikhail^> ajmitch: thanks.
<mikhail^> ajmitch: do I pipe it to a file and send it somewhere?
* zakame is building a breezy chroot for lighttpd
<ajmitch> mikhail^: yes
<mikhail^> zakame: w00tness indeed! :)
<mikhail^> ajmitch: and somewhere would be...
<ajmitch> wherever you feel like
<ajmitch> it'd be nice if you could put it on a webserver
<ajmitch> at least until you get a revu account
<ajmitch> which you should do asap
<mikhail^> ajmitch: okay, how do I do that?
<mikhail^> ajmitch: i mean, get a revu account?
<zakame> or in an arch/bazaar archive...
<mikhail^> zakame: where would that be?
<ajmitch> mikhail^: see revu.tauware.de
<zakame> mikhail^: I have one on my server :) still arch though, I've yet to try baz/bzr...
<mikhail^> zakame: hmmm... this is alien to me...
<mikhail^> hehehe
<mikhail^> ajmitch: so I send siretart a signed email to be able to upload...
<mikhail^> ajmitch: and then I have to have dput installed...
<ajmitch> mikhail^: yes, to upload to revu
<mikhail^> ajmitch: but i need a key signed by someone else before I do that, available from the public keyservers right?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> hello SynrG
<SynrG> it occurs to me that since my junior-* packages are in universe, it might be possible to make an ubuntu livecd + Debian Jr., and that this might produce a more polished product than I would otherwise be able to produce with Debian alone
<SynrG> of course, there is a bit of cruft in those packages i'd probably need to cut to save space
<ajmitch> SynrG: what's in those packages?
<SynrG> for instance, while in principle, i'd love to provide children with the ability to explore the domain of programming, in practice, it may not be practical to include such materials on a livecd
<ajmitch> and what would you cut from a regular live cd to put on instead? OOo?
<SynrG> they are merely metapackages
<ajmitch> right, so you'd need to drag in all the depends for the live cd
<SynrG> and i suppose the first cut would be to merely build an oversided iso and boot it in qemu or some such
<ajmitch> 800MB ISO? :)
<ajmitch> or you could go for bootable DVD images
<SynrG> it would be nice if i could quickly throw something together.  is there a HOWTO?
<SynrG> yes, or DVD.  except only if really warranted
<ajmitch> I think there's a remastering howto around somewhere..
<SynrG> or produce two editions
<SynrG> "full" (DVD) and CD edition with some things cut
<SynrG> ultimately I want to hone what's in Debian itself down to a useful core
<SynrG> it has been quite a long time since I've done a serious review of what's in Jr.
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> the debian Jr stuff has been around for awhile now
<SynrG> somehow I have to get Jr. "unstuck".  it has been in stasis/maintenance mode for a few years
<SynrG> as I've been a busy parent in that time
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo
<ajmitch> yeah, I recall seeing you around debian channel from time to time :)
<SynrG> it is difficult to maintain a long-term presence on #debian
<SynrG> the volume of chat is just way too high
<mikhail^> ajmitch: would it be okay if I upload the diff at a webserver somewhere instead of having it reviewed by someone else?
<mikhail^> ajmitch: ack, wrong. what I meant was instead of uploading it myself through revu ?
<ajmitch> mikhail^: yes, that was what I originally suggested :)
<SynrG> ajmitch: i'll have a look at that. thanks
<mikhail^> ajmitch: oh, my bad. :) okay, I'll look for a way...
<ajmitch> SynrG: certainly, I ignore #d-d for most of the day
<ajmitch> SynrG: hopefully that helps, it would be good to see another live cd derivative
<SynrG> ajmitch: i assume using sid as the development host for this is OK?
<ajmitch> SynrG: you might be interesting in edubuntu as well?
<SynrG> no, not in the least bit interested
<SynrG> the goals of education are not the goals of jr
<ajmitch> ok, I thought there would be some overlap
<SynrG> i established that a long time ago
<SynrG> no, there isn't.
<SynrG> education is not focused on any one age range
<ajmitch> right
<SynrG> it is more geared towards older students, and towards administrative problems
<SynrG> and how to deploy many computers in a computer lab/classroom setting
<ajmitch> that is true
<SynrG> whereas my goal is just a "kids system"
<SynrG> kid's
<ajmitch> sid as a development host should be fine, as long as you have the right sources.list in the cd chroot
<ajmitch> you could probably use any linux system
<SynrG> something you'd give to a niece or nephew, a neighborhood kid, or one of your own kids
<SynrG> to play with
<SynrG> I was encouraged to read the LJ article about the fellow who had used Ubuntu with his kids
<SynrG> hm.  i mean, when i read it, it encouraged me
* ajmitch hasn't read it
<ajmitch> is it online?
<SynrG> i don't know.  i read it in my dead tree copy
<SynrG> hm, i just installed a 2.6 kernel on my ubuntu laptop in preparation to upgrade from warty -> hoary & it panics :(
<SynrG> sigh
<SynrG> unfortunately, the hardware is only marginal, so i think i'll halt it and let it cool for a while to rule out overheating.
<SynrG> it dies with a message about preempt, though.
<SynrG> oh well.  this isn't a request for help.  just an observation. :)  i'll muddle through on my own.
<SynrG> meanwhile, i'll get started on that howto
<SynrG> also, i've had offers for help with jr lately, so i mentioned this on the #debian-jr channel
<SynrG> nobody awake there yet tho
<slomo> reee
<spayne> slomo: ping
<slomo> spayne: everything clear with the copyright?
<spayne> slomo: will you take a look at the new stuff i've put up http://www.evolutioncolt.com/~spayne/packages/resapplet to check ?
<slomo> ok
<ajmitch> SynrG: good luck with it, let us know how it goes & if you want help with any of it :)
<slomo> spayne: why don't you upload to revu?
<spayne> my GPG ain't signed
<spayne> the new artwork is very nice for breezy!
<slomo> isn't necessary for revu
<spayne> slomo: is it in a fit state for REVU?
<slomo> no... well, again two things to say about your packaging ;)
<spayne> what?
<slomo> please remove everything unneeded from the rules file... i.e. the header comments and the commented out calls to something
<slomo> makes everything much more clean
<spayne> slomo: will do
<spayne> slomo: remember this is first package
<slomo> and in copyright... 1. add all copyright holders... there are at least 2 other people... then something like "copyright (c) year, years names" would be fine for every copyright holding party...
<spayne> 2 other people?
<spayne> you mean Elliot Lee <sopwith@redhat.com> and Anders Carlsson <andersca@gnu.org>?
<slomo> Elliot Lee and Anders Carlsson
<slomo> yes
<SynrG> ajmitch: sure.  in the appropriate channel though :)
<SynrG> ajmitch: oh, unless you meant by "it" == the HOWTO stuff
<spayne> Copyright (c) 2005, Nat Friedman and Robert Love
<spayne> ?
<slomo> for example... but it isn't written anywhere so maybe ask both to add something in their sources... and again, don't forget the two other copyright holders
<ajmitch> SynrG: yeah, the live cd customisation :)
<SynrG> heh, the kids are upstairs playing "whale rider".  chanting, sticking out their tongues and rolling their eyes at each other.
<spayne> slomo: why do i need it twice?
<ajmitch> hah nice
<ajmitch> I've seen that a couple of times
<slomo> spayne: what twice?
<SynrG> ajmitch: we were impressed enough to buy it.
<spayne> having copyright info twice
<SynrG> ajmitch: that's a great movie to show to kids
<slomo> spayne: why twice? you have it all over the sources and then collected in debian/copyright
<ajmitch> SynrG: yeah, it's quite good
<spayne> slomo: but you said have it twice in copyright - list and the single line thing
<spayne> Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:46:04 +0100.
<spayne> It was downloaded from http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/resapplet/
<spayne> Copyright Holder: 	Nat Friedman <nat@nat.org>
<spayne> 			Robert Love <rml@novell.com>
<spayne> 			Elliot Lee <sopwith@redhat.com>
<spayne> 			Anders Carlsson <andersca@gnu.org>
<spayne> Copyright (c) 2005, Nat Friedman and Robert Love
<spayne> License:
<spayne> resapplet is released under the terms of the GNU General Public License
<spayne> version 2
<spayne> This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
<spayne> modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
<slomo> spayne: look at the copyright file i gave you some hours ago
<spayne> as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
<spayne> of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
<spayne> This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
<slomo> and don't spam the channel
<spayne> but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
<spayne> MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
<spayne> GNU General Public License for more details.
<spayne> On Debian systems, the complete text of the GNU General Public
<spayne> License, version 2, can be found in /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2.
<spayne> whoops!
<spayne> sorry - don't flame
<spayne> it was s mistake
<spayne> it was a mistake
<ajmitch> argh
<spayne> slomo: you didn't give me one :)
<slomo> sure...
<ajmitch> spayne: yes he did
<spayne> slomo: i just don't get what is wrong with my current file - i have a list of all the copyright holders
<slomo> spayne: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/fatsort-0509090945/fatsort-0.9.4/debian/copyright
<slomo> this for example
<spayne> oh right
<zakame> wow, where's the kicker? :))
<spayne> sorry! I made a mistake
<ajmitch> zakame: I was sorely tempted
<spayne> are we not all allowed to make a mistake?
<zakame> spayne: in other chans you'd be ... :)
<zakame> ajmitch: hehe :)
<spayne> slomo: is this line ok "Copyright (c) 2005, Nat Friedman <nat@nat.org>, Robert Love <rml@novell.com>, Elliot Lee <sopwith@redhat.com> and Anders Carlsson <andersca@gnu.org>"
<zakame> spayne: yeah, we all do :) so don't feel bad, we feel your pain :D
<zakame> chroots r0ck!
<slomo> spayne: probably not... 1. we don't know something about the nat/rml part... and 2. elliot and anders have such lines in their code and the years are different...
<slomo> spayne: look at this for example http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/banshee-0509081950/banshee-0.9.7/debian/copyright
<spayne> right
<spayne> the authors file just says Nat and Robert
<slomo> yes... these are the upstream authors... but it contains code on which other people hold the copyright
<spayne> i think it will be Novell work?
<spayne> the Upstream Author would be Nat and Robert?
<slomo> look at the sources... one is redhat, the other is someone else
<slomo> yes
<spayne> slomo: can i pastebin the copyright file?
<slomo> sure
<spayne> http://pastebin.com/379554
<slomo> i think rml also holds copyright... and not everything is gpl... there's also lgpl'ed code
<slomo> eggtrayicon is lglp
<slomo> for example
<spayne> i can't see anything else that is under the LGPL
<slomo> ok... good
<slomo> then change it and pastebin it again
<slomo> "
<slomo> resapplet is released under the terms of the GNU General Public License
<slomo> #
<slomo> version 2" <--- that can be removed imho
<slomo> hmm
<spayne> what?
<slomo> what what? ;)
<spayne> you said hmm
<spayne> :)
<slomo> yes... because of the multi-line paste... wasn't intended ;)
<spayne> oh right
<spayne> ;)
<slomo> can someone please beat the eclipse people? why does one want to cast ints to pointers and the other way around...
<spayne> http://pastebin.com/379556
<slomo> for multi-license stuff i wouldn't do it that way...
<slomo> look at http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/mosml-0509261825/mosml-2.01/debian/copyright
<spayne> http://pastebin.com/379560
<slomo> ok... i would remove the "$name is released under..." lines but other than that it looks ok... please reupload everything and then i'll build it for the first time ;)
<spayne> looks ok? after this, it should be amazing :)
<pansen> what's the difference between flashplayer-mozilla and flashplugin-nonfree?
<spayne> slomo: up at http://www.evolutioncolt.com/~spayne/packages/resapplet
<slomo> just a small change... i would make a "clean" changelog with only one entry for the first release
<slomo> -0ubuntu1: Initial revision
<slomo> or something
<slomo> and it's copyright holder_s_... plural ;) but anyway
<slomo> let's build it :)
<spayne> made those changes
<spayne> and uploaded the changes
<slomo> checking for X... no
<slomo> looks evil ;)
<spayne> that isn't me
<slomo> yes... and it works anyway :) just wanted to note that
<spayne> can you test something
<spayne> click on Configure Display Settings
<spayne> does it work? it is fails, the patch hasn't worked
<spayne> if you install it that is
<slomo> try adding --x-includes=/usr/include/X11 --x-libs=/usr/lib to configure
<slomo> --x-libraries even
<spayne> sigh :)
<spayne> where do i add it? in debian/rules? in the actual configure file?
<slomo> debian/rules
<slomo> to the configure call
<spayne> got iit
<spayne> put new packages up with that change
<slomo> ok...
<slomo> the LGLP is also in /usr/share/common-licenses
<slomo> add this to the copyright file ;)
<slomo> and it's --x-libraries not --x-libs
<spayne> new packages again
<slomo> --x-includes=/usr/include/X11 is missing ;)
<spayne> new packages again
<spayne> slomo: any good?
<slomo> wait a moment
<slomo> no ;)
<slomo> --x-libraries=/usr/lib
<slomo> not /usr/include/X11 for the libraries
<spayne> ARGH!
<spayne> i am stupid!
<spayne> new packages again
<spayne> any good slomo?
<slomo> builds currently
<bddebian> Morning folks
<spayne> yo bddebian
<bddebian> Heya spayne
<spayne> slomo: now what?
<slomo> wait :P
<spayne> sorry :)
<slomo> or buy me a faster pc ;)
<bddebian> Heya slomo
<slomo> hi bddebian :)
<slomo> spayne: everything ok... now search another motu to look at it
<slomo> i wonder why they didn't make it a real applet...
<spayne> slomo: can you suggest anyone?
<slomo> ajmitch: he will find all mistakes i didn't find ;)
<SynrG> ajmitch: i have cool kids.  my daughter, age 7, is enjoying a game of moon-buggy.  with jr i want something where "edutainment" isn't the norm for kids' software
<spayne> ajmitch: ping
<slomo> otherwise... just ask if someone is here and want to look at it :)
<spayne> slomo: but who here is an MOTU
<slomo> hm for the people that are really here... bddebian ;) don't know about all the others but they seem to be asleep
<spayne> bddebian: will you take a look at the latest stuff of my resapplet package?
<spayne> bddebian: http://www.evolutioncolt.com/~spayne/packages/resapplet
<bddebian> spayne: Normally I would love to but I have to head to my office pretty shortly :-(
<spayne> ok :(
<spayne> sob sob
<spayne> never mind
<mikhail^> ajmitch: managed to get it up courtesy of zakame
<mikhail^> ajmitch: it's now at http://zakame.spunge.org/pub/mikhail/longrun_0.9-16_to_0.9-17.diff
<jsgotangco> yay
<slomo> yeah... seems like i got eclipse working on amd64 =)
<jsgotangco> (i don't have a crusoe)
<spayne> doko: are you a MOTU?
<doko> no
<slomo> Nafallo: ping?
<mikhail^> how do I know if the package I wrote/came up with has been/is being/will be reviewed?
<slomo> mikhail^: is it uploaded to revu?
<mikhail^> slomo: sadly, not yet... I haven't had my GPG key signed yet, so I can't really qualify yet for revu... :(
<zakame> when someone pings you about it either on REVU or on somewhere else, like via email :) it's like debian-mentors RFS :)
<slomo> siretart: is a signed gpg key really needed for revu now?!
<spayne> if it wasn't needed, i could upload resapplet?
<slomo> to revu, yes
<spayne> shall i try uploading it slomo?
<slomo> no... you have to get your key added to the revu keyring... mail siretart about it... siretart@tauware.de
<spayne> what is his first name?
<mikhail^> zakame: so I just have to wait and cross my fingers...
<mikhail^> would it be a good idea to email it to the ubuntu-devel mailing list?
<spayne> slomo: what is his first name?
<zakame> mikhail^: yes.  Of course, if you think people at -devel ought to know about it, then have a go :)
<spayne> mikhail^: you are the in the same position as I
<mikhail^> spacey: key unsigned? ;)
<spayne> mikhail^: yes and i'm not spacey
* mikhail^ is a Debian development n00b.
* spayne is a Ubuntu development newguy
* spayne dislikes the work noob (or n00b)
<mikhail^> spayne: oh, my bad... xchat nick cycling doesn't help.
* zakame has some Debian dev experience
<mikhail^> zakame: good for you...
<zakame> the maint-guide and developers-reference packages are good places to start :)
<mikhail^> zakame: hmmm... 'apt-get'-able?
<zakame> yep
<mikhail^> zakame: oooh, it is! thanks! :)
* mikhail^ should start reading up.
<zakame> apt-get install -y maint-guilde developers-reference
<zakame> and (optionally) debian-policy...
<mikhail^> zakame: thanks! :)
<zakame> mikhail^: np again! :)
<jsgotangco> Frosty time!
<zakame> jsgotangco: hehe :))
<mikhail^> jamessan: you going out for a frosty?
* mikhail^ should get something cold to drink...
<bddebian> ajmitch: +1 for me!  Wake up. ;-P
<bddebian> ajmitch: Hey I have to run but if you come around, what do you think about #902?  Looks like bunk to me.
<bddebian> See you in a few gang
<bmonty> I agree with bddebian, 902 should be rejected
<eruin> Lathiat, ping avahi 0.5 - has it been deferred?
<slomo> hm, 0.5 was released some days ago afaik
<eruin> actually, 0.5 was released half a month ago
<tseng> he means packages i believe
<eruin> aye
<slomo> ah ok... well, no idea :) when there are new packages to review i would look at them... would be nice to have the cli bindings to play a bit with avahi ;)
<eruin> he told me he had packages ready for <someone> to look at
<eruin> I guess they weren't approved by that someone I can't remember the name of ;p
<slomo> hmm... do you know where they are flying around?
<eruin> nope,sorry
<eruin> I'd prefer archive.ubuntu.com ;-)
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bmonty> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bmonty
<sistpoty> slomo: would you mind to take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=669
<slomo> atm... yes ;) everything is swapping because of building ugly eclipse ;)
<slomo> but i'll do afterwards
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> thx
<sistpoty> I finally got this sorted out with dd/upstream :)
<hub> new hugin package on REVU
<hub> hi
<hub> for a pure CLI (Mono) binary, do I have to put the dependencies manualy ?
<hub> using CDBS
<hub> found it
<hub> Depends: ${cli:Depends}
<slomo> hub: what do you want to package?
<slomo> and read the CLI policy
<slomo> http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/
<\sh> evening
<\sh> *yawn*
<slomo> hi \sh :)
* \sh just came back from rackmounting, cabling and swearing work ,-)
<hub> slomo: I did. but I use cdbs
<hub> slomo: but I found it. I should add Depends: ${cli:Depends}
<hub> slomo: and run dh_clideps
<slomo> hub: look at my cowbell package... also uses cdbs and everything
<hub> slomo: I looked at muinescrobbler
<slomo> what package are you packaging? and maybe join #ubuntu-mono ;)
<hub> autopano-sift
<hub> already on REVU
<slomo> the thing that wasn't compiled before but shipped binaries?
<slomo> or was that something else?
<hub> yep that one
<hub> but now I build it
<hub> I have to go guys
<hub> talk to you later. thansk for the tips
<slomo> ok, i'll take a look it when you uploaded it :)
<slomo> bye
<spayne> yo all
<spayne> any MOTUs about>
<slomo> yes
<spayne> i meant another slomo :)
<spayne> to look at my package
<slomo> Nafallo is around ;)
* \sh doesn't work anymore today
<spayne> Nafallo: ping
* slomo neither... eclipse was to demotivating ;)
<Nafallo> not really. I'm half asleep
<Nafallo> _and_ got a headache.
<\sh> I'll fix that utmp problem of xterm...and that's it for today...I just had too much of real life work
<slomo> Nafallo: me too... everything is annoying today ;)
<Nafallo> indeed
* spayne is entering depression again
<\sh> spayne: it's weekend...even for volunteers :)
<tseng> spayne: resapplet looks nice
<tseng> spayne: i am building the package
<spayne> tseng: thanks man :-) does that mean i can send it to revu if you accept it?
<slomo> spayne: it can be uploaded to universe afterwards...
<slomo> revu is only for reviewing of packages
<spayne> oh nice :)
<tseng> if slomo, dholbach and me all like it
<tseng> it can upload
<spayne> slomo likes it
<spayne> dholbach LIKED it
<spayne> but slomo took me through rebuilding it today properly
<slomo> tseng: why 3 people? only 2 are needed now
<tseng> slomo: 3 looked at it
<tseng> slomo: so thats how many it got
<spayne> i thought it was 2
<spayne> slomo has
<spayne> bddebian has
<spayne> dholbach HAD
<spayne> and tseng is
<sistpoty> seems like it got too many votes :P
<tseng> i will upload it shortly
<tseng> but it will go to NEW
<spayne> tseng: thanks :)
<\sh> spayne: so u have to wait for elmo
<spayne> \sh: elmo? why?
<tseng> new packages require manual approval
<spayne> from elmo?
<\sh> spayne: he is pushing NEWs to the archive after he looked over it
<tseng> yes
<\sh> spayne: yes
<spayne> tseng: but you can upload it?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> but it wont go to the archive
<spayne> right
<tseng> it will go to elmo, then the archive :)
<spayne> so will it appear on breezy-changes?
* \sh echos tseng
<tseng> no
<tseng> it will appear nowhere actually
<tseng> since oyu arent whitlisted
<\sh> it will appear on kati...
<tseng> whitelisted
<tseng> \sh: no it wont
<tseng> but in any case, its uploaded
<\sh> tseng: not? new sourceuploads get a message like...hmmm...or?
<\sh> doesn't matter
<tseng> \sh: katie doesnt send mail to people who arent whitelisted
<\sh> tseng: right...
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> only whitelisted people get this nifty message
<\sh> "Your package contains new components which requires manual editing of
<\sh> the override file.  It is ok otherwise, so please be patient.  New
<\sh> packages are usually added to the override file about once a week."
<spayne> what is kati?
<tseng> katie is a script that runs on uploads
<tseng> it will mail you when it is accepted/reject
<tseng> or queued in NEW
<\sh> spayne: katie is our "boxenluder" ;)
<tseng> approved uploaders are in a whitelist to get these mails
<sistpoty> lol @ \sh
<tseng> and to have their name on breezy changes
<tseng> otherwise it will say Ubuntu Installer for you
<\sh> sistpoty: i don't know the english word...actually katie is the "katie price" of ubuntu ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<slomo> sistpoty: for gvr... it is already in debian and your changes are just the ones in the changelog?
<sistpoty> slomo: yep... i worked with upstream and dd on the 3.6.2 debian version
<spayne> so it goes from tseng --> uploads it to build daemons --> katie ---> elmo --> archives ?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> most of the time you get to skip elmo
<tseng> well actually
<tseng> me -> incoming -
<tseng> > katie -> build daemons
* \sh was suprised how difficult suse 9.1 is
<tseng> it doesnt build before elmo
<slomo> sistpoty: ok... *looks at the debdiff*
<spayne> \sh: been trying SUSE?
<slomo> \sh: why do you use it? ;)
<tseng> if that happens to matter
<\sh> slomo: not me...our colleagues from iesy are using suse
<sistpoty> slomo: you should rather debdiff to 3.6.2 from debian ;)
<\sh> slomo: but I had to reconfigure all machines :(
<\sh> slomo: with YAST!
<tseng> \sh: even spayne swore off suse now
<tseng> \sh: it is bad for your health
<spayne> yeh - i can to the realisation it is a pile of bollox :)
<tseng> and our mono and kde teams are elite
<\sh> tseng: well...me too...but what should i do...I just searched the bloody nfs mounts...and I didn't find it
<spayne> tseng: you read my blog?
<tseng> spayne: it seems to pop up different places
<\sh> tseng: so i used vi...and this guy from iesy was looking at me
<tseng> spayne: like planet ifolder
<tseng> \sh: haha
<spayne> tseng: :)
<\sh> spayne: url?
<slomo> \sh: evil :(
<spayne> \sh: http://www.evolutioncolt.com/~spayne/blog
<slomo> sistpoty: uploaded
<sistpoty> slomo: cool, thx ;)
<slomo> hmm... i believe i've created my longest blog entry now =)
<spayne> slomo: url?
<slomo> spayne: one moment... i need to look for errors again ;)
<tseng> i wonder how Mez is doing with ifolder
<\sh> slomo: where?
<slomo> \sh, spayne: http://slomosnail.de/2005/10/01/back-from-jaoo/
* sistpoty thinks he needs to create an antiblog... perhaps s.th. like cool things I just haven't done today
<spayne> tseng: i was wondering as well
<tseng> slomo: why arent you on planet
<tseng> for that matter, why arent I on planet
<slomo> tseng: no idea... let's ask jdub? ;)
<tseng> woo
<slomo> sistpoty: did katie talk to you?
<sistpoty> slomo: not yet... but the line from her too me is quite laggy ;)
<tseng> i just got done saying that katie only talks to whitelisted users
<sistpoty> tseng: /me is whitelisted ;)
<tseng> cheers.
<spayne> tseng: what do i have to do to become a whitelisted user
<sistpoty> spayne: ping elmo about it
<sistpoty> (or mail him)
<tseng> s/or//
<sistpoty> hehe
<tseng> james.troup@
<tseng> c.com
<tseng> figure out the rest
<sistpoty> slomo: now katie said hello  to me
<sistpoty> :)
<slomo> sistpoty: ok... fine :)
<slomo> breezy-changes seems to be really laggy today... or it ate my previous upload and built it anyway ;)
<tseng> i think the lists were broken for awhile
<slomo> spayne: better write a mail... he doesn't work on weekends afaik
<spayne> i have loads and loads of updates today like gnome-themes and none of them are on breezy-changes
<spayne> tseng: how does Xephyr run?
<bmonty> what happens if two packages try to install the same file?
<tseng> spayne: it runs great
<slomo> bmonty: they can't be installed at the same time
<tseng> spayne: if thats how you mean
<bmonty> slomo: so..dont do it :)
<spayne> tseng: yeh
<slomo> bmonty: yes... in most cases don't do it ;)
<slomo> bmonty: otherwise do Conflicts etc...
<bmonty> slomo: got it, thanks
<slomo> bmonty: for some packages that replace others this is needed... for example the esd and esd-alsa packages
<spayne> tseng: how is resapplet going?
<bmonty> slomo: it an icon file...I'm moving it to the -common package
<slomo> bmonty: what package is it?
<bmonty> slomo: lyx
<tseng> spayne: i said i uploaded it awhile ago
<tseng> spayne: its out of my hands
<slomo> bmonty: wah... evil package ;) but yes, moving it to the common package may solve it
<spayne> tseng: whoops! didn't know you were talking to me - just need to wait for elmo. thanks again
<tseng> np
<bmonty> slomo: it isn't that bad, but I already messed up the .desktop/icon once, so I want to make sure I get it right
<slomo> bmonty: it takes to long to compile imho ;) and lyx isn't that useful for me... i like doing my latex stuff in vim and it seems to be easier than lyx for me ;)
<spayne> tseng: actually, i need some help, i'm trying to package another application but a mono one
<bmonty> slomo: you are right about the long compile!  I don't use latex, so I couldn't say if the program is useful or not.
<spayne> tseng: when i run it, i get this error "Unhandled Exception: System.DllNotFoundException: libgobject-2.0-0.dll
<spayne> "
<slomo> spayne: wrong dllmapping probable
<spayne> is that a problem w/ the app?
<slomo> spayne: yes but smething you can fix... just look at the cli policy
<slomo> http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/
<spayne> slomo: it is an old mono app but a kick ass one
<slomo> name?
<spayne> timeline
<spayne> one of Nat's creations
<spayne> it makes a pie chart of system usage
<spayne> and makes a report of how much time you have done with each app
<spayne> like Emacs: 39 hours
<slomo> want to give me an url? :)
<spayne> doesn't have one :) apart from an entry on Nat's blog
<spayne> nat.org/2004/august/#22-August-2004
<spayne> it can make HTML reports, text ones + the pie chart thing
<spayne> whoops! it ain't system usage but time usage
<slomo> hm... so package it :) maybe this is useful for some folks ;)
<spayne> i can't get it to build though
<slomo> wonderful... pastebin? ;)
<tseng> there is no glib 2.0.0.0
<spayne> where do i make the libgobject-2.0-0.dll.config
<tseng> or probably gobject if that is different
<slomo> spayne: look at my... hmm... banshee package for examples of how creating your own .config files
<spayne> tseng: it must have existed once
<spayne> this is helpful http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ch-mono.html#s7.2
<spayne> but it doesn't say where to make it
<tseng> ok should i tell you again
<spayne> it doesn't exist
<tseng> libgfoo-2.0.0.0 is from gtk-sharp 1.9
<tseng> we have gtk-sharp 2.3.91
<tseng> assemblies are now called 2.4.0.0
<slomo> tseng: the problem seems to be something else... native libraries
<tseng> why would their be a missing dll error for a native library
<slomo> [DllImport("libgobject-2.0-0.dll")]  would do exactly that error he pasted before
<spayne> this was written one year ago...
<slomo> hm... but glib-sharp has this <dllmap dll="libgobject-2.0-0.dll" target="libgobject-2.0.so.0"/>
<tseng> oh that is digusting
<spayne> what is disgusting?
<tseng> anyway enough screwing around guessing, someone needs to look at the code and get it over with
<tseng> spayne: aliasing a .dll to a native library?
<tseng> spayne: and then p/invoking it anyway
<slomo> tseng: right... enough guessing =)
<tseng> unmanaged
<slomo> tseng: the .dll is also used for p/invoking gtk for example... they've used it to be compatible with .net on windows
<tseng> yeah yeah
<tseng> i like what lewing does
<tseng> he writes .config in autoconf
<slomo> ...which is probably the only really portable way to do it
<spayne> it says 'using GLib;' in Tray.cs but i don't see that as a problem
<slomo> spayne: grep for DllImport
<spayne> or is the problem in the configure/makefile
<spayne> slomo: in the source?
<slomo> wouldn't make sense anywhere else, would it? ;)
<tseng> hopefully Tray.cs isnt the broken one
<slomo> no... it's a wrapper around eggtrayicon
<slomo> i already looked at it ;)
<tseng> i think that one is broken too
<tseng> in different ways
<tseng> according to abock
<slomo> maybe... but it is used in tomboy for example and works good there
<tseng> who seems to hate any code he didnt write
<slomo> hehe
<spayne> slomo: running 'grep dllimport *' gives no results
<slomo> spayne: wrong case... DllImport
<slomo> tseng: did he answer your release question?
<tseng> no
<spayne> grep DllImport * still fails
<tseng> grep -R DllImport *
<spayne> or maybe not!
<slomo> spayne: try -R
<spayne> it is in src/FocusTracker.cs:
<spayne> [DllImport("libgobject-2.0-0.dll")] 
<tseng> yes
<spayne> what should it be?
<slomo> so make a working .config file
<spayne> .config file?
<slomo> or adjust the one that is maybe provided with the package
<slomo> http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ch-mono.html#s7.2
<spayne> there is no .config file
<tseng> he said make one
<tseng> please listen :(
<tseng> before we get to far is this software actually maintained
<tseng> or just a hack
<spayne> tseng: it is in GNOME CVS
<spayne> tseng: but i don't know if it is maintained
<spayne> tseng: but i'd like to try it for my personal usage
<tseng> ok, but be advised that we dont like to take stuff with dead upstreams
<slomo> spayne: ask the author if it is still maintained
<spayne> getting intouch with Nat Friedman is near impossible
<spayne> i don't think it is
<tseng> exactly
<tseng> but the point is, the last commits are 10 months ago
<spayne> yeh
<slomo> maybe it is already "perfect" ;)
<tseng> slomo: apperantly not.
<spayne> don't start thinking like djb :)
<tseng> spayne: hahaha well played!
<\sh> damn...folled myself...
<slomo> tseng: that's why i added the quotes around perfect :P
<\sh> bug on eric3 but eric is the correct package
<\sh> fooled myself even
<spayne> tseng: don't shout at me but...
<spayne> tseng: where do i put the libgobject-2.0-0.dll.config
<spayne> in the lib dir for timeline?
<spayne> in /usr/lib
<slomo> spayne: no... all wrong ;)
<slomo> name it timeline.exe.config
<slomo> and put it next to the exe
<tseng> "bar.dll.config should be installed to the same directory as bar.dll."
<spayne> got it :)
<tseng> great
<spayne> and it still fails - i will pastebin the .config
<spayne> http://pastebin.com/379884
<spayne> it is: /usr/local/lib/timeline/Timeline.exe.config
<slomo> don't forget the .dll
<spayne> oh yeh :)
<tseng> map exactly what it DllImports
<spayne> is that timeline.exe.dll.config?
<tseng> huh?
<slomo> no
<tseng> no.
<slomo> <dllmap dll="libgobject-2.0-0.dll" target="libgobject-2.0.so.0"/>
<tseng> yes
* tseng hugs slomo 
<spayne> thanks slomo
<spayne> and is the file name what i said?
<tseng> no
<tseng> timeline.exe.config
<spayne> oh right
<spayne> woo! it runs
<spayne> and crashes...
<tseng> great
<spayne> http://pastebin.com/379887
<spayne> it runs until i move to another app
<slomo> hehe
<slomo> tell nat about it ;)
<tseng> i doubt he cares
<spayne> tseng: maybe i should forget this one
<tseng> spayne: well, you learned something
<tseng> spayne: we'll call it a win
<tseng> dllmap is very important
<spayne> yeh
<spayne> can anyone recommend any small apps i can try packaging
<spayne> not KDE stuff though
<slomo> not really... if i had one i would've packaged it already ;)
<spayne> resapplet wasn't packaged :)
<slomo> i don't need it and didn't know about it ;)
<LaserJock> is it better for a learning packager to look for new packages to make of fix packages that are haveing problems?
<tseng> both
<slomo> both
<ivoks> hi
<sistpoty2> hi ivoks
<sistpoty2> sistpoty: be gone!
<ivoks> :)
<tseng>  msg nickserv ghost sistpoty passwd
<tseng>  nick sistpoty
<sistpoty2> yeah... but i gow my pw wrong *g+
<sistpoty2> :)
<sistpoty> hi mbreit
<mbreit> hey all
<mbreit> hi sistpoty
<slomo> ok... i'll leave now :) have a nice evening everybody ;)
<tseng> spayne: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates < ideas
<mbreit> hehe... bye slomo ;)
<sistpoty> cya slomo
<slomo> btw... sistpoty... propose you as MOTU for the next meeting ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: that's now handled by lp, isn't it?
<spayne> ooh - the same meeting i am being proposed for a member
<sistpoty> slomo: then I should be proposed already... ;)
<slomo> sistpoty: yes
<slomo> ok, anyway...
* slomo runs away before he has something to say again ;)
<sistpoty> spayne: imo membership is councilmeeting, maintainership tb-meeting
<sistpoty> hehe
<tseng> spayne: http://www.snorp.net/log/?p=55 i suggest this
<spayne> oh well
<spayne> tseng: looks nice - i will give it a go
<slomo> spayne: and don't touch ipod-sharp... i have a new version lying on my hdd which only needs to be uploaded ;)
<ivoks> upload it!
<tseng> no
<tseng> !
<ivoks> :))
<slomo> no! it breaks our current banshee... i have to wait for a new release before i upload it ;)
<slomo> anyway....
* slomo is really gone now :P
<mbreit> bye slomo  ;)
<spayne> how the hell do i use Bazaar?
<tseng> baz get http://www.snorp.net/bazaar/dopi--dev--0.0 dopi
<spayne> thanks tsen
<spayne> *tseng
<tseng> time for a nap i think
<spayne> have a good one :)
<spayne> i'm sure i'll need help!
<sistpoty> gn8 tseng
<spayne> tseng: can't do dopi - it needs ipod-sharp 0.5.5
<\sh> hmmm...looks like that the mail server is slow
<spayne> \sh: what was the link to that website that said how strong the key is?
<\sh> spayne: you can get one link from biglumber
<\sh> checkyour contact and there is a link...
<spayne> what is it called?
<\sh> sorry phone
<\sh> I'm p*ssed now
<\sh> callcenter agents are sometimes...*censored*
<thesaltydog> :-9
<\sh> spayne: u search for the contact of you...then click on this contact and there is text written like: trace from this id to your ide <enter here>
<sistpoty> cya guys
<thesaltydog> hi
<tseng> spayne: in a few days, then
<\sh> night guys...cu next morning
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-07
<UbuntuOne> Hello people...anyone willing to join a Ubuntu support team?
<spacey> what kind of support team?
<spacey> be more specific :)
<UbuntuOne> well, the support team would try to help users when they can't or don't know how to do something, direct them , etc :p
<spacey> there is lots of support for ubuntu already?
<crimsun> I missed the beginning of the conversation - what is this support team for, prospective MOTUs?
<spacey> irc, mailinglists, forum?
<UbuntuOne> live help and support tickets
<spacey> support tickets in launchpad you mean?
<spacey> live as IRL?
<UbuntuOne> hm, go here and see: www.whereisanykey.com
<spacey> UbuntuOne, launchpad has support tickets
<spacey> IIRC
<UbuntuOne> oh
<spacey> https://launchpad.net/support
<spacey> check that
<UbuntuOne> still :p
<UbuntuOne> I know
<bddebian> Heya gang
<crimsun> hey, we can assign all desktop bugs to you now!
<bddebian> You can?
<crimsun> didn't you volunteer to handle 'em? :P
<crimsun> (I'm joking, of course)
<bddebian> Sure, why not ;-P
<spayne> night all
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> bddebian: you should take all the bugs, since you're the official Bug Master here
<bddebian> crimsun: Are you on the desktop team?
<crimsun> I haven't signed up yet
<bddebian> ajmitch: I'm nobody and you know it ;-)
<ajmitch> bollocks
<bddebian> Do either of you have an opinion on #902?  Looks like a user preference to me, more than a bug??
<ajmitch> crimsun: is this the work of a 'nobody'? https://launchpad.net/people/bddebian/+karma
<crimsun> I don't think so!
<ajmitch> bddebian: see :P
<bddebian> Bah :-)
<ajmitch> I think dholbach should write that up in his MOTU report
<bddebian> Adding a desktop file isn't exaclty l33t h4XX0r work ;-P
<ajmitch> so?
<ajmitch> it's still work
<ajmitch> unlike what I do
<havoc> gah, man page for mount says there's a /sbin/mount.smbfs but there isn't, mount isn't even in sbin
<havoc> is that a 'bug'? ;)
<bddebian> ajmitch: D00d, you have more activity than I do :-)
* ajmitch closes another 2 bugs out of spite
<ajmitch> bddebian: but I've closed less bugs than you :P
* ajmitch guesses he has to ask for a sync again of 2 packages
<ajmitch> once my syncs are done that's another 2
<ajmitch> plus another bug in my package which I have to fix
<ajmitch> & then there's the f-spot bug which I have to fix by patching gtk#
<crimsun> havoc, patches for mount are welcome. :)
<havoc> crimsun: installing the smbfs package fixed it ;)
<crimsun> right
<crimsun> I meant a patch for mount.8
<crimsun> but in this case, the man page is correct
<havoc> crimsun: assuming you install the rest of the packages, yes :)
<bddebian> Damn I gotta get moving
<bddebian> ajmitch: Still no comment for 902??
<ajmitch> bddebian: no, did you need me to comment?
<bddebian> Just wondered if you thought it was valid?
* ajmitch shrugs
<bmonty> bddebian: I think you should set it to reject...the user can reopen it if it is still a valid concern
<ajmitch> not everyone likes to reject bugs out of hand
<ajmitch> especially as it's assigned to the gnome team
<bmonty> ajmitch: I don't think it is out of hand, but I see your point
<ajmitch> it's something that occurs, that the users doesn't like, that can be fixed
<ajmitch> so why reject it? :)
<bmonty> I don't think it can be fixed by changing the package, the user has to update their configs for gdm and the window manager
<bmonty> the bug should probably be against the desktop preferences app
<ajmitch> and is it our call to make? :P
<bmonty> which it looks like it is :)
<bmonty> ajmitch: if it is a universe package I would say yes
<ajmitch> it's not
<ajmitch> and some universe packages are still handled by specific teams if possible
<bmonty> k, well the GNOME team should get crackin' :)
<ajmitch> the gnome team has quite enough bugs to handle :P)
* bmonty is looking for a different bug to play with...
<bddebian> bmonty: Fix wordtrans for me, it's pissing me off :-)
<bddebian> So any time A user wants something, we just fix it? ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: no, we go & dance in the street
* ajmitch needs to close more bugs
<ajmitch> since I want to hit 1000 karma by the end of the weekend :)
<bddebian> Doh
<bddebian> Holy shit, I'm Waaay behind you on karma.. :-(
<crimsun> I haven't even gotten to triple digits yet
<ajmitch> bddebian: nah, you'll catch up fast with today's effort
<bddebian> ajmitch: I don't think so.  I'm like 200 behind you.. :'-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: you're up one bug for fixed at the moment
<bddebian> Almost 2 ;-P
<ajmitch> maybe 1 ;0
* ajmitch is just waiting for a build to finish
<ajmitch> oh, I'd better fix my own bugs today :)
<bddebian> Heh
<ajmitch> at least between us we can burn through the bugs :)
<bddebian> :-)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: ping
<ajmitch> Nafallo: pong
<ajmitch> what's up?
<Nafallo> can you reproduce that gajim bug?
<ajmitch> Nafallo: no idea, I don't use gajim ;)
<ajmitch> I just thought the IM team could handle it
<Nafallo> oh. I thought you could since you subscribed :-)
<ajmitch> nah
<Nafallo> yes, gajim is MOTU-IM :-)
<ajmitch> I just wanted to see what progress got made on it
<Nafallo> well, I introduced that. now I just have to figure out exactally why the damn error appered :-/
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> lucky you ;)
<Nafallo> fix one bug to get another really sucks :-P
* ajmitch squashes another in his own debian package
* bddebian +1
* ajmitch +!
<bddebian> :-)
* ajmitch needs a drink
* ajmitch marks his debian bug as pending as well
<Nafallo> hmm, anyone using gajim with gpg-support? :-)
<Nafallo> I need someone to talk to ;-)
* ajmitch closes another debian bug for good measure ;)
<bddebian> Bah
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes?
* ajmitch has to do bug fixing for 2 distros, not just one :P
<ajmitch> bddebian: want the good news?
<bddebian> No :-)
<ajmitch> we're almost back at 500 bugs open
<bddebian> w00t
<ajmitch> so we're keeping even with the bugs that are coming in
<ajmitch> 501/1042
<ajmitch> just under half are open
* Nafallo will close a gajim bug now ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: thanks
* bddebian closes another one
* ajmitch will close another bug in a few minutes
* ajmitch has to keep up with Bug Master bddebian 
* bddebian uploads another..
<Nafallo> ehm
<Nafallo> bddebian: stop upload bugs PLEASE :-)
* ajmitch is just too slow & can't keep up
<ajmitch> Nafallo: eh?
<ajmitch> oh he's just doing .desktop fixes :P
<Nafallo> ehm. we were talking about bugs and bddebian uploads another...
<ajmitch> no wonder he's uploading so fast
<Nafallo> is my parser broken? ;-)
<bddebian> Hehe
<ajmitch> he uploaded a package
<ajmitch> we don't 'upload' bugs
* bddebian might ;-P
<ajmitch> true
<Nafallo> some of us seems to do ;-)
<bddebian> w00t 498
<ajmitch> madman
* ajmitch needs to close more bugs!
* ajmitch neeeeds his fix
* ajmitch has only fixed 70 :(
<bddebian> :-)
* bddebian doesn't know how many he has closed :)
<ajmitch> 72
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/bddebian/+karma
<ajmitch> I keep watch ;)
<bddebian> I see my karma is still waaaay behind yours though :-)
<ajmitch> it only gets updated once a day
<bddebian> Ahh
* ajmitch starts another pbuilder
<Nafallo> ajmitch: would you do an usplash upload for me? infinity made a typo in -19.
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> I can't upload to main
<crimsun> still?
<Nafallo> oh?
<crimsun> d'oh
<Nafallo> dang
<bddebian> Hmm, how can we have an avidemux bug when there is no avidemux binary in hoary or breezy?
<ajmitch>  apt-cache madison avidemux
<ajmitch>   avidemux | 1:2.0.40-0.0 | http://10.18.1.1 breezy/multiverse Sources
<ajmitch> :P
<bddebian> I know
<bddebian> But how is he running it? ;-)
<ajmitch> so they *might* be using marillat binaries
<bddebian> I can't even find a description of WTF it is ;-P
<bddebian> What a surprise, it can't be built
<Nafallo> *sigh*
<Nafallo> now I'm stunned :-P
<bddebian> Reject a bug on a package that has no possibility of being built?
<bmonty_laptop> bddebian: which one?
<bddebian> 2731 avidemux
<bmonty_laptop> the package doesn't build?
<ajmitch> ask thesaltydog where he got the package from then
<ajmitch> since he's the bug reporter :P
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: It has build-deps that we will probably never get in.  The source has been there a while but the binary wasn't in breezy either
<bddebian> ajmitch: You'll be happy to know that there probably aren't any more bugs that my dumb ass can fix :)
<tritium> bddebian, shouldn't you be watching this awesome game?  ;)
<bddebian> tritium: Which awesome game?
<tritium> bddebian, Notre Dame dominating Purdue at Purdue :)
<bddebian> Bah.. My alma mater is University of Phoenix ;-P
<tritium> bddebian, you started at Purdue, did you not?
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'm sure there are more bugs, but I hope you're not fixing them with your ass
<LaserJock> what about the USC, Arizona State game? That started out great.
<bddebian> tritium: Yes
<tritium> Yeah, great start to that one, LaserJock
<bddebian> ajmitch: There are more bugs, I'm just too stupid to fix them
<ajmitch> bddebian: please fix them by typing. fixing bugs with your ass leads to messy situations
<bmonty_laptop> what is the correct build dep for a kernel module package that needs gcc-3.4 to build?
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'll be certain to make sure you get a good mention in this month's MOTU report
<bddebian> pfft
<ajmitch> you deserve it
<ajmitch> your name will be famous :)
* rob^ reads the scrollback
<LaserJock> we should make a "Bddebian is a god" wiki page ;-)
<bddebian> Heh, yeah right
<bddebian> We aren't going to leap Debian for Universe packages are we?  I.E. #2383
* ajmitch sets up a bddebian shrine
<ajmitch> bddebian: that can *not* be updated
<ajmitch> these gnome team bugs are being handled :)
<ajmitch> new mergeant version would require new versions of libs in main
<bddebian> ajmitch: So don't touch it?
* ajmitch adds comment to bug
<bmonty_laptop> if its a gnome team bug...leave it to the gnome team?
<ajmitch> bddebian: dholbach & I already discussed this bug, sorry
<ajmitch> we should have left a comment on it
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: sometimes it can be a good idea
<ajmitch> other times, MOTU are free to go wild
<bmonty_laptop> guess it takes experience to know the difference
<ajmitch> yeah, it can
<ajmitch> eg certain people would lynch you if you started mucking up mono packages ;)
<ajmitch> even though technically any MOTU could go & patch gtk# to fix 2210
<ajmitch> it's not necessarily the best thing to do :)
<bmonty_laptop> maybe malone needs a feature to track that
<ajmitch> perhaps
<ajmitch> or we could just take notice of who the bug is assigned to
<bmonty_laptop> if it is assigned :)
* ajmitch looks for gtk# svn
<bmonty_laptop> MOTU is a broad category though
<ajmitch> yea
<bddebian> Looks to me like 2195 is just a problem with the scribus.desktop file
<bmonty_laptop> bddebian: desktop file looks OK to me
<slomo_> *yawn*
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: It's wrong, I just tried it.  And after modifying it, it worked
<bddebian> Heya slomo_
<ajmitch> hey slomo_
<bmonty_laptop> bddebian: which category did you add?
<slomo_> someone got a coffee for me? ;)
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: I didn't.  The Type=Application is in the wrong place and I took the absolute path out of the icon
* bddebian hands slomo_  a cup o jo
<bddebian> ajmitch: Wtf is up with gnome-launch-box?
<slomo_> it's completly broken
<slomo_> you have to port it to the new gnome-menus api
<bddebian> It's got the wrong deps :-)
* ajmitch has looked at it
<slomo_> everybody looked at it... but without knowing that api it's unfixable... and upstream seems to be dead
<ajmitch> slomo_: upstream isn't dead, they just haven't released ;)
<slomo_> hm, there where no changes in the cvs since many months at the time i looked at it ;)
* ajmitch found it online & the changelog had entries from a few days ago
<slomo_> hmm... where?
<ajmitch> in the obvious place, on its website...
<ajmitch> and it's in svn now
<ajmitch> http://developer.imendio.com/svn/gnome-launch-box/trunk/ChangeLog
<ajmitch> ok, last commit was 3 weeks ago
<slomo_> hmm... weird... that's where i looked at the time i looked at the package
<slomo_> and the last change were months ago...
<slomo_> so maybe they got to work again ;)
<ajmitch> website is http://developer.imendio.com/wiki/GNOME_Launch_Box
<ajmitch> well there's a gap from 14/4 till 31/8
<slomo_> ok, that's my "months" :) hm, i'll look at this package again tomorrow when noone fixes it before
<ajmitch> I doubt anyone really wants to fix it before then ;)
<slomo_> what did they change? moving to the new gnome-menus api or something useless?
* bddebian has already fixed it. ;-P
<slomo_> lol
<slomo_> fine :)
<bddebian> ;-P
<slomo_> bddebian: so upload it and i'm happy :)
<slomo_> how did you fix it? just took a newer svn version?
<ajmitch> bddebian: so close the bug then
<bddebian> I was kidding
<bddebian> Sheesh :-)
<ajmitch> ffs
<slomo_> lol
* ajmitch looks around for a /kick
<bddebian> ffs?
<slomo_> nice one ;) anyway... i get to sleep now and when nothing about gnome-launch-box is on breezy-changes tomorrow i'll take a look again :P
<ajmitch> expression of annoyance
<slomo_> good night everybode :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: hurry up & fix it then
<bddebian> Later slomo_
<ajmitch> night slomo_
<bddebian> ajmitch: Don't I have to wait for Debian? ;-)
<ajmitch> you sorely test my patience at times :P
<bddebian> I'm being a little bit serious.  What is the justification for bypassing Debian on upstream versions?
<bddebian> s/justification/policy
<ajmitch> only when needed
<ajmitch> and this is packaged by seb128 in debian
<bddebian> Well then kick him in the ass. ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> can you guys download packages from us.archive.ubuntu.com, I'm getting 404 errors
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: I just have archive.u.c now so I never know :-)
<bddebian> OK, 2735.  I don't see even source for user-mode-linux so how was he able to post this bug?
<ajmitch> bddebian: umm
<ajmitch> other packages refer to user-mode-linuz
<ajmitch> and I saw some source that used to be in the archive, iirc
* ajmitch looked at that bug yesterday, should have commented it :P
<bmonty_laptop> isn't the source package uml?
<bddebian> apt-cache madison is empty
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: Not in Debian
<bddebian> ajmitch: WTF are you talking about??? :-)
<ajmitch> probably just because I've got it installed from long ago
<bddebian> Hmm, 2727.  Shouldn't socks4-server depend libsocks4 ?
<ajmitch> yes, working on it
<ajmitch> :P
<bddebian> Dick :-)
* ajmitch sighs
<bddebian> Would bringing in user-mode-linux break stuff?
<ajmitch> yes
<bddebian> ajmitch: You fixing 2428 too? ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> grrr...its a little hard to work on packages when the archives aren't working :(
<ajmitch> sure, I'll fix launchpad bugs
<bddebian> Oops, I meant 2728
<ajmitch> might as well try
<bddebian> You ROCK d00d :-)
<ajmitch> no, I don't
<bddebian> Yes, you do
<ajmitch> if I'm fixing 2727 & 2728, I might as well do 2726
<ajmitch> they're all for the same package
<ajmitch> won't that help my karma? ;)
<ajmitch> 2700 is unfixable for now, btw
<ajmitch> and why is 2692 still open?
<bddebian> I cannot make that bastard install the files for the life of me :-(
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I shouldn't lauch
<ajmitch> laugh
<bddebian> Yeah go ahead and laugh, I already know I suck. :'-(
<ajmitch> nah
<bmonty_laptop> check out #674, can you guys help doing a test build on this?
<ajmitch> ok, 2727 is fixed, 2726 looks easy, and I don't have amd64 to reproduce 2728
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: What do you need me to do?
<bmonty_laptop> install the source package and see if it will build
<bddebian> 2708 is done
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: Currently or have you updated it?
<bmonty_laptop> bddebian: its a kernel module package, when you install it the source shows up in /usr/src
<bmonty_laptop> damn...the huskers won today and the local news is still giving them a hard time
<bddebian> The .tar.bz2 files shows up.  Then what? :-)
<bmonty_laptop> untar it, cd into the modules dir, and make
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: I don't have any kernel sources installed ;-P
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<crimsun> heya bddebian
<ajmitch> hello crimsun, robitaille
<robitaille> salut ajmitch
<bmonty_laptop> bddebian: yeah I had to install them....I'm wondering if linux-headers should be an install dependency
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: Would make sense to me but I don't know shit ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> bddebian: it doesn't build even if the headers are installed, so no worries
<ajmitch> bddebian: it starts to get irritating after awhile
<bddebian> ajmitch: What does?
<ajmitch> < bddebian> bmonty_laptop: Would make sense to me but I don't know shit ;-)
<crimsun> heya ajmitch
<crimsun> & robitaille & bmonty_laptop
<bmonty_laptop> hi crimsun
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: It expects gcc-3.4?
<bmonty_laptop> bddebian: yeah, I installed gcc-3.4, but it is looking for a script from the headers package that isn't there
<bddebian> Why is discover so far out of date?
<bmonty_laptop> ChangeLog:    - Added workaround for scripts/modpost breakage (2.6 kernels only).
<bmonty_laptop> yeah right
<ajmitch> bddebian: because discover isn't used?
<crimsun> yeah, we don't much care for discover
<crimsun> although I suppose you could ask for a sync from Sid if you really wanted it ;)
<ajmitch> using it might even break your system
<bddebian> Well then reject the bug ;-P
<bddebian> It has lots of rdepends
<ajmitch> hardly lots
<bddebian> Well, a few anyway :-)
<ajmitch> why tell us to reject the bug if you're the one handling it?
<bddebian> Becuse I get yelled at when I update packages :-)
<bddebian> WTF is up with the guy that posted 2661?? :-)
<ajmitch> umm
<ajmitch> why do you say something is wrong with the submitter?
<bddebian> Not the submitter, just a long-ass comment :-)
<ajmitch> so?
<ajmitch> bddebian: close 2708 before I do KTHXBAI
<bddebian> Hey, just making sure it builds first
<ajmitch> making sure it builds? you should have done that before you uploaded
<bddebian> Ya just never know with those damn buildds ;-P
<bddebian> I always build and test the desktop files first. sheesh.  My laptop is a mess because of all ofthese damn packages. ;-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: What is 2661?  Is that supposed to be a patch??
<ajmitch> considering it's in patch format, I'd say yes :P
<bddebian> Seems hideous :-)
<ajmitch> well it's probably because he didn't make the patch correctly
<ajmitch> and it includes all of the debian changes, not just ones he made
<ajmitch>  All open bugs  (495)
<ajmitch> looking better
* ajmitch needs to get some food soon
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well that was what I was trying to get at.. :-)
<ajmitch> you could have said it plainer then
<bmonty_laptop> you guys ever seen "grumpy old men"?
<LaserJock> yeah
<bmonty_laptop> doesn't bddebian and ajmitch remind you of that flick :P
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: Yep ;-P
<bddebian> Only I'm the only Old one :'-(
<LaserJock> totally :-D
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: I'm just a young'un
<LaserJock> well, "Grumpy Old/Young Men" maybe?
<bddebian> NAMBLA
* bddebian hides
<LaserJock> "bddebian: schmuck         ajmitch: moron" , man that just makes me laugh ;-)
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> ajmitch: postinst-should-not-set-usr-doc-link ???
* tritium cowers from bddebian 
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes, it means the package does evil things no longer allowed
<bddebian> ajmitch: Aye, so how would I fix it? :-)
<ajmitch> rather eloquently put by the lintian warning, I could not put it better
<bddebian> tritium: ??
<tritium> your all-caps comment
<ajmitch> bddebian: by removing the /usr/doc link, of course
<ajmitch> bddebian: it might be created in one of a number of places
<bddebian> tritium: Oh, hehe :-)
<ajmitch> so bddebian isn't just a grumpy old man, he's a dirty old man as well?
<bddebian> ajmitch: That's all I have to do is whack the ln -sf ../share/doc... stuff?
<ajmitch> umm
<ajmitch> considering that I don't know the context or the full line of what you're talking about
<ajmitch> I can't really say
<bddebian>  ln -sf ../share/doc/gsfonts-other /usr/doc/gsfonts-other
<bddebian> in postinst
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> that's evil
<ajmitch> and must be torn out
<ajmitch> it might have been valid 4 years ago but it's forbidden now
<bddebian> It also complains about gpl license format but it's not a gpl package afaict
<ajmitch> which indicates that you need to do some digging
* ajmitch doesn't understand why you're asking me
<ajmitch> you're a *Master* of the Universe!
<bddebian> Bah, I'm just a Master Bater ;-P
<ajmitch> we really didn't need to know that thanks
<bmonty_laptop> and with that.....good night all
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: good time to leave ;)
<ajmitch> night
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: Gnight man
<bmonty_laptop> have fun
* tritium shakes his head at bddebian 
<ajmitch> he's a worry
<bddebian> Now what did I do?
<ajmitch> probably violates the CoC several times a day :)
<tritium> heh
<bddebian> So fire me. ;-P
<ajmitch> ok
* ajmitch looks for matches
<tritium> bddebian, if you're not fixing bugs with your ass, you're...well, never mind...
<ajmitch> this channel is not work-safe anymore
* bddebian thinks Malone should force user to put package version and distro release
<bddebian> ajmitch: Oh brother
<bddebian> tritium: ;-P
<ajmitch> I wonder what my boss would think if he saw bddebian was a NAMBLA member? ;)
<bddebian> I never said I was a member. :-)
* tritium breathes a sigh of relief
<ajmitch> no, you didn't admit it *outright*
<bddebian> Yes I'm weird but no, I'm not a NAMBLA member :-)
<tritium> That's good, or ajmitch might have taken down that bddebian shrine he put up
<ajmitch> s/taken/burnt/
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> There is no shrine believe me :-)
<ajmitch> why do you say that?
<bddebian> What a surprise, droidbattles ftbfss
<ajmitch> no kidding
<ajmitch> I was doing that one earlier
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> Did you change build-deps from qt3-compat-headers to just qt3-headers?
<bddebian> Err libqt3...
<ajmitch> well I added libqt3-headers
<ajmitch> which didn't seem to help it much
<bddebian> No, the calls to PlatinumStyle are jacked :-)
<ajmitch> and then I got distracted by another shiny thing
<ajmitch> it #includes <qplatinumstyle.h> which is in libqt3-headers
<ajmitch> and I left it at that
<ajmitch> couldn't be bothered fixing it ;)
<bddebian> Aye but the .. Oh never mind :-)
<ajmitch> the 'OOoh shiny!' effect of too much caffiene kicked in
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> WTH should the X11 include and lib dirs be these days??
<bddebian> I give up.  Gnight folks
<ajmitch> fine, good night
<bddebian> Heh
<tritium> good night, bddebian
<bddebian> ajmitch: Don't worry I have a list to try to knock out tomorrow ;-P
* ajmitch only got 100 karma today :(
<ajmitch> bddebian: hand me the list, I'll get them fixed :)
* ajmitch was hoping to break the 1000 karma barrier today, I guess I'll have to do it tomorrow instead
<bddebian> battledroids, xfonts-jmk, and Idon't remember the others..
<ajmitch> droidsbattle
<bddebian> whatever
<ajmitch> which is moderately crap
<bddebian> Yep
<bddebian> Oh I was gonna look at attal too
<bddebian> Which is also probably crap :)
<ajmitch> I'll add them to my todo list, I might get 1 or 2 done
<bddebian> Heh.  Later folks
<bddebian> Gnight tritium
<ajmitch> night
<ajmitch> 494 still open, not too bad though
<ormandj> hello everyone :)
<Yagisan> G'day
<Trashcan> hey
<ormandj> mdz suggested i stopped by and introduced myself. here i am :)
<ormandj> how is everybody doing?
<LaserJock> fine, and you?
<Yagisan> Well - I'm fighting with heat issues in my server today
<ajmitch> hi
<Yagisan> 30C outside, and inside - I could fry an egg
<ormandj> doing wonderful minus some ldap-headaches ;) we've had a bit of a storm over the past two days here in hawaii (kenneth) but it's clearing up finally
<ormandj> hehe yagi, you live in aussieland or such? noticed a lot of people there find 30c hot :P
<ajmitch> 30C *is* hot
<ivoks> :/
<ivoks> what about 39? :))
<ormandj> when i was living in dallas, i saw it reach 49c :P
<ivoks> ormandj: ?
<Yagisan> ormandj: I'm in Sydney - Austalia - 15-20 minute walk to the Olympic site
<ajmitch> that's impossible to live in :)
<ormandj> Yagisan, how did i know it? :)
<Yagisan> and it's just getting started
<ivoks> ormandj: are you sure it wasn't F?
<ormandj> ajmitch, naa, not at all, everybody has A/C in texas :)
<ormandj> ivoks: 121f
<Yagisan> I expect it will hit 40C this summer
* ajmitch would find 25C hot ;)
<ivoks> ormandj: you can't fet that temp. in desert
* Yagisan has no A/C
<ivoks> s/fet/find/
<ivoks> hm... strange typo
<ivoks> i guess typing in bed isn't such a good idea
<ormandj> ivoks: you must never have been to texas lol :P you can go outside and cook things on the asphault. dallas (dfw) is around 9 million in popuplation for the city, so be assured it's huge, and that much asphault + texas sun = 49c
<ajmitch> ormandj: so how are you wanting to help out the MOTU team?
<ivoks> ormandj: ah, man... americans :)
<ormandj> ajmitch, yes. i made a wiki page/etc as directed by the site/mdz
<ivoks> temperature is messured in shade
<ivoks> not on the sun
<ormandj> ivoks: i've lived in foriegn countries more than i lived in usa :P but now i'm happily inside hawaii
<ormandj> ivoks: well, the shaded temp is normally not a whole lot less in dallas, because the asphault holds the heat
<tambaqui> :)
<ivoks> ormandj: trust me, it is...
<ivoks> it's at least 10 degrees lower
<ormandj> ivoks: well the "real" measured temp on that day was 112f
<ivoks> i know what's the temperature like on asphault
* Yagisan looks out his window - nope not much asphault here, quite shady too
<ormandj> that's 44c :)
<Trashcan> I'm in AZ.. it's capping about 110-115 this month
<Trashcan> :(
<ormandj> ajmitch, let me find you the link, one moment
<ajmitch> ormandj: that's wonderful that you've done a wiki page, but what areas are you interested in? :)
<ajmitch> ok..
<ormandj> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DavidJOrman
<ormandj> the wiki covers it. basically, the LAMP software
<ormandj> Trashcan, i feel your pain. :) how's gas there?
<Trashcan> > $3
<ajmitch> why do you say that mysql 4.1 isn't in breezy?
<ivoks_> eh
<Trashcan> The gas evened out for a short while, but it went up again recently
<ajmitch> apt-cache show mysql-server-4.1
<Trashcan> :(
<ivoks_> loosy wifi :)
<ormandj> ajmitch, i should be more specific
<ormandj> nothing links to libmysql14
<Trashcan> (good thing I don't drive :D)
<ormandj> everything is linked to libmysql12
<ivoks> you see... it isn't 49
<ivoks> exclude asphault, and you will get bellow 40
<ivoks> we have 40C here every summer
<ormandj> so while 4.1 might be in breezy, none of the packages i look at utilize it
<ormandj> ivoks: 44 is close enough to "way too hot" for me :P
<ivoks> it is
<ormandj> ajmitch, when i made bug reports, i was told it's too late to fix it in breezy :)
<Trashcan> So, what job might an intermediate-advanced programmer have in package maintainance?
<ajmitch> ormandj: right, and that won't be changing before release :)
<ormandj> yes. so i wanted to join up to make sure these kinds of things don't occur :) not being rude or disrespectful of course, i just feel like Ubuntu hasn't really put much effort into the server-side of things, and i'd like to apply myself/my employees to get that done
<ajmitch> Trashcan: general bug fixing & new packages :)
<Trashcan> hmm.. so it's not necessarily the job of the original developer to keep bugs up by himself
<Trashcan> forgive me, I'm rather new to the whole open source development scene :)
<ajmitch> Trashcan: well we often can't rely on the upstream developer actually fixing things in the timeframe needed :)
<ormandj> without being an expert on debs, i'd venture to say rebuilding all the applications using mysql to link to the "stable" release (that has been for 1 year) should not be too much effort. i'd just like to make sure all little inconsistancies like that are fixed for next release :)
<ajmitch> ormandj: not a large problem, really
<ormandj> i just found it odd that php5 would be added (way more "bleeding edge" than mysql 4.1) and in fact look like the default version, but be linked to an old icky mysql ;)
<ormandj> ajmitch, well, i guess it depends on how you look at it. :) for me, it's a huge problem with a 3800 server deployment
<ormandj> so i'm learning to build debs and i'm going to fix it on my installbase
<ajmitch> alright
<ormandj> i just didn't want other people who rely on it in the datacenter universe to have the same issue, because i deal with them day in and day out, and it's been a major complaint
<Yagisan> ormandj: probably because it came from debian like that
<ormandj> Yagisan, that was my guess :)
<ajmitch> ormandj: it'll mainly be build-dependency changes
<ormandj> i just wanted to come and help and get little things like that fixed, so they werent an issue in the future
<ormandj> ajmitch: that was my guess
<ajmitch> so debian/control & debian/changelog to fix
<Yagisan> ormandj: and some testing to make sure that no regressions occur
<ormandj> Yagisan, understood :) i'm pretty handy with documentation so i wasn't all too worried about rebuilding the debs to suit. i just had little niggles with ubuntu like this throughout, just little things, like outdated dovecot, etc, and i thought maybe if i offered my assistance it would improve ubuntu
<ormandj> but there is no point offering if it isn't perceived as a problem that needs fixing. ;)
<ajmitch> when was dovecot 1.0 released?
<Yagisan> ormandj: Updates are always welcome - but there is a release in two weeks - so the MOTU's are stabilising at the moment
<ormandj> ajmitch, aug 18
<ormandj> Yagisan, nono, i understand why it's not going into this release completely :)
<ajmitch> ormandj: upstream version freeze started in july, so an exception would have been required to get it in
<ormandj> Yagisan, but mysql 4.1 has been stable for a year now, it's not that there wasn't enough time to link things to it :)
<ormandj> ajmitch, well, the bug report got assigned for dovecot, so i'm assuming it's going to be fixed
<ormandj> ajmitch, .99 has huge issues :)
<ajmitch> getting a UVF exception 10 days out from release might be hard :)
<ajmitch> a bug being assigned means that someone is aware of it
<ormandj> Yagisan, i've been "informally" told the reason mysql 4.0 was still linked is the debian guys didn't want the hassel of explaining the differences in authentication lol. :) so they pushed it back year+
<ajmitch> and you filed a bug just last week on dovecot?
<ormandj> ajmitch, ahh, i see. well, it's really a non-issue. i was just citing some examples. i understand release engineering so not griping about missing this release with little things like dovecot, as that was a recent change
<ajmitch> mmm, 1.0 alpha 3
<ajmitch> not a 1.0 release yet
<ormandj> ajmitch, dovecot _has_ no release yet ;)
<ormandj> it's one of those projects that probably never will, the programmers don't understand design phases i think.
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> so we'll see alpha 19..
<ormandj> at a minimum
<ormandj> when they get into exponential notation, you know it's bad
<ajmitch> additional digits of pi..
<ormandj> hehe
<Trashcan> Well I've subscribed to the ubuntu-devel list. I'll see what I can do in terms of testing and bug fixing :)
<ajmitch> Trashcan: launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs if you want something to look at ;)
<ormandj> well, you asked my reason for wanting in, now you know it. i'm interested in improving the server-side offerings of ubuntu (however that might be accomplished), cited one _big_ example *mysql 4.0 vs 4.1* of what i saw to be a rather disappointing failure of debian developers to "get with it", and my offer still stands, in whatever capacity i can help
<ajmitch> ormandj: certainly, your help is welcome
<Trashcan> cool, thanks ajmitch :D
<ajmitch> ormandj: at this stage of the release we're just a little busy with bugfixing (as you can see from that URL)
<ajmitch> ormandj: you could check out rebuilding packages against libmysqlclient14 & report success/failure so we can do it ASAP for dapper
<ormandj> ajmitch, yesyes, when i rolled out hawaii's accounting and financial management system updates this year, it was quite the same amount of busyness :P
<Trashcan> wow.... that is quite a few bugs :\
<ajmitch> Trashcan: that's universe, several thousand packages
<ormandj> ajmitch: ok. once i finish sorting out my LDAP issues i'll get into doing that
<Yagisan> Trashcan: don't worry - I'm sure I can add some more :-P
<ormandj> ajmitch, do i just report to here/you/whomever concerning it?
<ajmitch> Yagisan: please do, we need more backbreaking work
<Trashcan> lol
<ajmitch> ormandj: yeah, or you could use the wiki for now
<ormandj> ok. this kinda the process for joining into the MOTU? do work then if people like ya you could get in? lol
<ajmitch> more or less ;)
<ajmitch> do work, apply for upload rights
<ormandj> hehe, well, it seems as good a method as any
<Yagisan> ajmitch: no worries - I was harassing Kaimon with installer bugs - but if you like - I can turn my attention back to you :)
<ajmitch> we generally try & regularly review people's work & sponsor upload
<ormandj> if you'll excuse me a moment, my parasitic infection (otherwise known as gf) has cooked for me, and if i don't go and eat, she'll eat away at my leg or something and i'll be crippled
<Trashcan> lawl
<ormandj> ajmitch, very nice. thank you for your help, i will be back soon and as you have time we'll talk more :)
<Yagisan> ormandj: yah - but you can still code
<ajmitch> alright, see you later :)
<Yagisan> see you later
<ormandj> Yagisan, dunno if you read my wiki, but you know....losing a leg is preferable to programming in OS/VS cobol :P
<Trashcan> !tell me about colony
<ormandj> on punchcards no less
<Trashcan> oops, wrong chan
<ajmitch> Trashcan: no bots here sorry :)
<Trashcan> how did I get switched :)
<Trashcan> bah.. silly bot
<Yagisan> anyone know why in breezy I have /lib/modules/2.6.12-9-amd64-k8/volatile mounted as tmpfs ?
<Yagisan> I certainly didn't add that to fstab
<crimsun> it's necessary.
<crimsun> Everyone has it. It's the new kernel way.
<Yagisan> why ?
<Yagisan> (yes - I've just upgraded)
<ajmitch> Yagisan: because that's how they're doing it, I don't know why :)
<mikhail^> ajmitch: I've already submitted the patch upstream, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=331117 regarding adding configuration file support for longrun.
<ajmitch> mikhail^: ok
<ormandj> hey crimsun, not to pry, but is there any reason the archives seem so unstable? this is the second time i've come on irc, and both times it's been down, lol :P
<Yagisan> ormandj: it's happened to Sundays in a row
<Yagisan> atabout the same time
<ormandj> always apache dying too
<Yagisan> probally a cron script or something
<Yagisan> almost same time
<Yagisan> it stopped my i386 chroot install
<ormandj> hope they resolve it, it'll be a bit silly if this is re-occuring and simple but they leave it broken :P
<crimsun> it's already fixed.
<crimsun> probably something in a cron job is causing apache2 to barf
<ormandj> crimsun: perm? or will it happen again next time i come on irc? :P
<Yagisan> hooray - my downloads resumed :)
<ajmitch> ormandj: I doubt such a serious problem will stay broken like that
<ormandj> ajmitch, hehe, i'm sure you are correct :)
<ormandj> ten minutes, a flashlight and some duct tape would solve a broken cronjob :P
<Trashcan> :p
<mikhail^> who here has a Transmeta based processor in their system?
<ormandj> ajmitch, i'm hacking up a simple php script to test repositories to see if they are up/down, it'd be trivial to change it to make the output look pretty, ill send it your way when i'm done
<ormandj> something that could possibly be added to ubuntu's page in the future, or maybe the error messages in the updater/installer/etc
<ajmitch> it's not something that should be needed :)
<ormandj> i agree, but seeing as they are down every week at least once.. :P well, actually, just did it to show a guy in #ubuntu who said it couldn't be done in php shorter than in bash lol :P
<ajmitch> every week? it's happened twice :P
<ormandj> ajmitch, i do think making the error messages in the update manager more human readable "linux for human beings" style would be a good change though
<ormandj> with an option to click for the *real* messages for the power-users
<ormandj> that way my grandmother doesn't call when repos are down, crying that she broke her computer :P
<ajmitch> wishlist bugs in bugzilla :)
<ormandj> jaja. :P
<ormandj> isprvit, leneul mai mult alearg..
<ormandj> er, sorry, wrong channel
<ormandj> bbiab, thanks again for all of your help ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<ajmitch> what's up?
<jsgotangco> ahh just having some nice weekend surfing that is not work related
<jsgotangco> heh
<ajmitch> fun :)
<ajmitch> so when do you expect to hear about the job?
<\sh> moins
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: probably by tommorow or tuesday
<jsgotangco> i'll brb im gonna whip up some snacks for my kid
<jsgotangco> heh
<ajmitch> moening \sh
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> how are you?
<\sh> my back is paining and my head feels like I had a party last night...
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> what did you get up to?
<ajmitch> too much to drink? ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: no...I had to work yesterday in our DC...rackmounting servers, configure them using yast and testing them
<ajmitch> ugh
<\sh> and yast gave me really a big headache
* ajmitch spent a bit of time doing ubuntu bug squashing today
<\sh> I hope i can catch up with u guys today...
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> you could catch up in 15 minutes to all of us
<\sh> nah I have to wake up first ;)
<ajmitch> ok, 10 min once you're awake ;)
<\sh> lol
<\sh> so..whats left for me...
<ajmitch> about 500 bugs & countless packages to fix ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: woah...lets see ;)
<\sh> hmmm...I have to wash my clothes today :(
* ajmitch waits for \sh to fix all the breezy bugs for us :)
<\sh> lol
<sivang> morning all
<ajmitch> hi sivang
<sivang> hey ajmitch , how's it cracking? :-)
<ajmitch> I see rob^ made a page about bddebian being a god ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: where?
<sivang> ajmitch: where is it?
<sivang> and what did bddebian do? :)
<ajmitch> he hasn't seen it :)
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod
<ajmitch> because of: https://launchpad.net/people/bddebian/+karma
<sivang> lol
<sivang> wow, he HAS been busy
* ajmitch trails his fixed bugs by 1 at the moment ;)
<sivang> ajmitch: what do you mean? :)
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/ajmitch/+karma
<ajmitch> we were pretty even with bug fixing throughout the day
<sivang> wow nice, shame on me I've been busy all weekend with moving apartments and stuff :-(
<ajmitch> closed probably 30 or so between us
<ajmitch> maybe more
* ajmitch watches \sh start uploading at a fearsome rate
<\sh> ajmitch: just stucked now...listening to jdubs interview ;)
<ajmitch> heh I listened to that as soon as it wsa up last night ;)
<sivang> \sh: what is the interview about?
<\sh> ah...motu now ;)
<ajmitch> the awesome MOTUs, including dholbach
<sivang> cool
<\sh> shower, breakfast, washing clothes
<ajmitch> then bug fixing so we can all relax?
<Trashcan> :)
<Trashcan> so I take it the majority here are coders?
<ajmitch> some of us dabble in code :)
<dholbach> hi
<ajmitch> hey dholbach!
<dholbach> hellas andrew
<ajmitch> dholbach: you're famous now :)
<dholbach> really?
<dholbach> how comes?
<ajmitch> listened to jdub's interview?
<dholbach> erm
<dholbach> erm.....
<ajmitch> :)
<dholbach> where could i have been listening to it?
<ajmitch> the fridge
<ajmitch> where all the cool people hang out
<dholbach> i see :)
<ajmitch> got any plans for the monthly MOTU report?
<dholbach> no, not yet
<dholbach> we should add some crack to a wiki page
<ajmitch> too busy?
<dholbach> so i can write and translate it (for some german forum guys)
<ajmitch> like this page -  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod
<Trashcan> wtf
<ajmitch> Trashcan: ?
<Trashcan> BddebianIsAGod?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> dholbach might understand :)
<dholbach> haha :)
<dholbach> excellent
<Trashcan> *whoosh* over my head
<Trashcan> :)
<crimsun> just check out his karma
<ajmitch> it come from this comment:
<ajmitch> 15:10 < ajmitch> bddebian: I'll be certain to make sure you get a good mention in this month's MOTU report
<dholbach> hehe :)
* ajmitch fell short of his karma goal for the weekend
<Trashcan> what's your name on the wiki?
<ajmitch> why?
<Trashcan> so i can look at your karma :)
<ajmitch> oh, karma isn't on the wiki
<Trashcan> :(
<Trashcan> ahh im thinking of
<ajmitch> it's on launchpad
<Trashcan> ...the other site
<Trashcan> launchpad
<Trashcan> thank you..
<Trashcan> its 2:30am, don't look at me :)
<ajmitch> my karma is just https://launchpad.net/people/ajmitch/+karma
<Trashcan> 74 bugs fixed
<Trashcan> bravo
<ajmitch> there's a few more I could close if syncs were done
<Trashcan> Matt Barnard
<Trashcan>  Karma:  0
<Trashcan> :D
<ajmitch> is that you?
<Trashcan> yessir
<Trashcan> Oh boy... Ubuntu Core Development Team
<Trashcan> yeah.. i see you dabble a bit
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch is not as involved as the likes of dholbach though
<dholbach> man... that's not remotely true :)
<Trashcan> :p
* Trashcan glances at ajmitch's teams list vs. dholbach's
* ajmitch pulls his passport out of his trousers pocket just before it goes into the wash..
<ajmitch> that was a close one.. :)
<\sh> wow...that was a shower
<\sh> moins daniel :)
<dholbach> hey \sh
* \sh will postpone his breakfast to the afternoon 
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> Trashcan: don't let number of teams I'm in be the criteria for judging :)
<\sh> no joke...I have to go to office around 13 UTC looks like there are some problems
<ajmitch> dholbach does *way* more stuff in main
<Trashcan> :)
<dholbach> i only appears so :-p
<ajmitch> Trashcan: dholbach is one of the main GNOME maintainers for ubuntu
<Trashcan> do you guys actually go to an office to work, or is it entirely online?
<\sh> so I can go directly from my flat, to a bakery grab some cake and go straight to the office
<dholbach> poor \sh :(
<Trashcan> ah so now I know who to yell at for not having any NASM syntax files :)
<ajmitch> Trashcan: since most of us here are volunteers, we work from home :)
* \sh works in an office..but not for ubuntu ;)
<Trashcan> alright
<ajmitch> Trashcan: nearly all of the crew for universe are community members & volunteers
<Trashcan> wow
<ajmitch> and over half of the uploaders for main are community people now
<Trashcan> :o
<\sh> dholbach: no..don't do that...it means..I will have a beer now ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: mmm, a beer would be really nice right now
<\sh> and dholbach please fix evolution, thx ;)
* ajmitch is thirsty :(
<dholbach> \sh: what exactly?
<dholbach> \sh: bug number?
<Trashcan> <3 evolution
<\sh> dholbach: sometimes it stops working...not crashing
<dholbach> hrm
<\sh> dholbach: it just doesn't react anymore..most of the time when I switch folders or messages when it's trying to fetch new mails
<ajmitch> \sh: strace it & send in what it's blocking on?
<dholbach> \sh: that's not very specific... what do you intend me to do? :(
<\sh> dholbach: just teasing..it's upstream anyways
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> you should be able to attach strace to the running process & see what is breaking, and use lsof to see what the file descriptor (since it's usually read/write) is
<ajmitch> so you can provide a nice useful bug report for dholbach to file upstream ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: I'll strace it from the beginning...
<dholbach> file it upstream directly, thank you
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> ugh, gtk+ 1.2 bugs on bugzilla :)
<\sh> dholbach: that's what I'll do anyways...
<dholbach> ajmitch: oh nice :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14749
<ajmitch> I didn't recall seeing a documents button for 1.2
<ajmitch> hmm, there's no documents button in the file selector for xmms
<dholbach> gnucash?
* ajmitch should take this to #u-desktop
<dholbach> those are the only two, i can think of
<dholbach> dia has it
<ajmitch> dia is 2.x
<ajmitch> so the bug is misfiled
<dholbach> but it has that crazy documents/ thing
<ajmitch> but that's not gtk+ 1.2
<dholbach> no, not reall
<dholbach> y
<ajmitch> not at all! :)
<ajmitch> looks like the old gtk+ 2.0 selector with the modifications to add these buttons
<ajmitch> does someone have a powerpc box for me to test a build on?
<pef> hello
<dholbach> hey pef
<pef> does cdrdao scanbus works for you ? I have Device or resource busy errors so I cannot use cd cloning into k3b
<ajmitch> sigh, doesn't matter about  powerpc build, buildd retried package & it still fails :(
* ajmitch can't find that bugzilla bug where Diziet said he fixed ghostscript to not segfault
<Trashcan> this meld crash is annoying as hell
<Trashcan> hang, rather
<ajmitch> Trashcan: what hang?
<Trashcan> f you click okay while having a directory selected in the file-chooser, while choosing a file to diff, meld hangs.
<Trashcan> and
<Trashcan> Launch Meld, click "New", choose an original file, the open dialog will freeze and the application will lockup as soon as a file has been selected.
<ajmitch> yes, known bug sadly
<Trashcan> and I can't see a single thing to cause it :)
<ajmitch> at least the first one is filed on malone
<ajmitch> and still exists in 1.0.0
<Trashcan> yeah
<ajmitch> we have https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/meld/+bug/2558 and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/meld/+bug/1688
<ajmitch> I see you're subscribed to at least 2558
<Trashcan> tis what I'm looking at
<j^> anyone looked if its possible to package xawtv4, or any other dvb-t viewer?
<Trashcan> (I just noticed the 'other bugs' pane)
<ajmitch> Trashcan: want to file the bug upstream?
<j^> xawtv4 is afaik only packaged by suse
<Trashcan> what does that mean?
<Trashcan> :)
<ajmitch> Trashcan: in the upstream bug tracker, for the people who develop meld & know the code :)
<Trashcan> ah
<Trashcan> probably a good idea
<ajmitch> j^: it'd be a tight squeeze to get it in for breezy
<ajmitch> Trashcan: not just a good idea :)
<Trashcan> I've yet to read how this LaunchPad actually works :)
<ajmitch> meld homepage is meld.sf.net
<ajmitch> it uses gnome bugzilla for bug tracking
<ajmitch> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?product=meld
<Trashcan> yup
<Trashcan> there now
<ajmitch> so open some new bugs with the content of the malone bug reports..
<Trashcan> ok
<ajmitch> give the malone urls as well
<ajmitch> it's so much easier when you get others to do your work for you >:)
<Trashcan> hehe
* ajmitch likes the powers of delegation
<ajmitch> once they're filed in gnome  bugzilla, use 'link to other bugtracker' on malone to link to gnome's bugzilla
<j^> ajmitch ah, last time i checked xawtv a simple ./configure && make && make intall did not work, now it does
<ajmitch> j^: right, but someone would still have to package it, get it reviewed, and get it uploaded, right?
<Trashcan> heh
<Trashcan> meld 1.0 is 3 years old
<Trashcan> and this bug hasn't been fixed :p
<j^> ajmitch right, which is something for breezy+1
<ajmitch> 1.0 is 3 years old??
<ajmitch> you're sure?
<Trashcan> about
<ajmitch> 1.0.0 released! (2005-07-01)
<ajmitch> that is *not* 3 years :)
<Trashcan> meh
<Trashcan> must be referring to the original version?
<Trashcan> Meld 1.0.0
<Trashcan> Copyright 2002
<ajmitch> heh
<Trashcan> this Malone thing is really cool
<ajmitch> yep, still needs some work though
<ajmitch> hows the bug filing gone?
<Trashcan> had to make an account etc.
<ajmitch> yeah
<Trashcan> almost finished
<Trashcan> took the time to read the faq on bugzilla, too
<ajmitch> gnome bugzilla report looks good
<ajmitch> except you didn't enter the meld version number
<Trashcan> yeh
<Trashcan> 1.0.x
<ajmitch> hm, 1.0.x in the right hand side
<ajmitch> should be enough
<Trashcan> (selected from a list)
<ajmitch> so malone ought to update each day or so with the status of the gnome bug over on the right :)
<Trashcan> cool :D
<ajmitch> I'm not sure if it emails the universe-bugs list yet or not
<Trashcan> firefox crashed :)
<ajmitch> yay
<Trashcan> I think it was the flash plugin on a seperate tab :s
<ajmitch> night all
<Trashcan> night
<Trashcan> nice meeting you
<\sh> rushing to office....
<\sh> laters
<spayne> yo all
<sistpoty> hi folks
<spayne> yo sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi spayne
<Trashcan> hi
<Trashcan> bye spayne
<spayne> is james.troup@ubuntu.com elmo?
<tseng> yes
<spayne> thanks
<spayne> how's you tseng?
<tseng> fine.
<spayne> tseng: an i need to ask elmo if i can be on kati's whitelist?
<spayne> s/an/and
<tseng> yes.
<sivang> tseng: Yo Brandon, 'sup?
* sivang wonders if anyone here has managed to make VMWare 4.5 work with breezy
<Yagisan> sivang: go to 5, and you need vmware-any-any patch
<sivang> Yagisan: and can I use the 4.5 created vm's ?
<Yagisan> sivang: yes
<Yagisan> vmware-any-any patch might work with 4.5.2
<Yagisan> haven't tried it
<tseng> sivang: hiya
<sivang> Yagisan: does it workaround compiling the VMware modules?
<sivang> tseng: will I be seeing ya in UBZ ?
<Yagisan> sivang: It's a patch for the modules
<tseng> sivang: no.
<Yagisan> you still need to compile them
<Yagisan> someone made 4.5.2 into debian packages
<sivang> Yagisan: are they in universe?
<sivang> :)
<sivang> Yagisan: so I still need to have the compatible kernel headers
<Yagisan> sivang: google for fberie or abacomsucks
<Yagisan> that should link you to the repo
<Yagisan> then just s/unstable/breezy and rebuild the source
<sivang> ah I see
<Yagisan> sivang: when I fix my box after my upgrade to breezy - I'll see if I can package 5
<Yagisan> have to fix deng first
<sivang> Yagisan: nice, I didn't know VMWare is distributable
<sivang> Yagisan: what went wrong in the upgrade?
<sivang> (I want to upgrade another office station)
<Yagisan> sivang: I don't know if it is - I just hate installing things that are not managed by apt
* tseng summons bradb
<Yagisan> sivang: I had to blow the system away to get lvm on raid
<sivang> ah I see, well, I don't have any such installation. So I guess I'd be fine
<sivang> Yagisan: where do you get the -any-any patch?
<Yagisan> sivang: http://ftp.cvut.cz/vmware/
<Yagisan> http://ftp.cvut.cz/vmware/vmware-any-any-update94.tar.gz
<Trash[sleep] > night
<Yagisan> night
<tseng> \sh_away: did you find anything about mono upgrade
<siretart> hi folks!
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<siretart> hi sistpoty!
<Yagisan> G'day siretart
<ivoks> EHLO #ubuntu-motu
<siretart> :)
<tseng> HELO ivoks
<sistpoty> I'm just about to fix slune (malone: 2218)... I'd propose newer debian version and newer version for python-soya... any comments on this?
<sistpoty> hi ivoks
<ivoks> 250-STARTTLS
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> 34E$^#$^Yafdg#$^$^%&
<tseng> hy7823y4g2yfyugy89842894
<sistpoty> hehe
<tseng> haha /me hugs ivoks
<ivoks> ;)
<ivoks> so...
<ivoks> i converted MacOSX user to Ubuntu
<sistpoty> wow
<ivoks> he
<ivoks> he's enlightend :)
<ivoks> argh...
<ivoks> he loves the Connect to server
<ivoks> much better than OSX's apple+k
<ivoks> says Gimp has lots of nice things Photoshop doesn't
<ivoks> and, for the record, he's profession is design and printings
<ivoks> even says his iPod works better on Ubuntu than on OSX
<slomo_> spayne: already packaged dopi?
<sistpoty> wow ivoks... did you give him drugs? :P
<tseng> slomo_: baz needs new ipod-sharp
<ivoks> sistpoty: nope... he asked for Ubuntu
<j^> does WebDAV in connecot to server work?
<sistpoty> ivoks: cool
<slomo_> tseng: 0.5.5 or something newer?
<tseng> slomo_: 0.5.5 i think
<j^> here i get "There is no default action associated with this location."
<j^> Can't display location "dav://j@.../"
<slomo_> tseng: fine, we'll get this tomorrow ;)
<tseng> slomo_: ok.
<slomo_> spayne: if you already want 0.5.5 packages just tell me and i'll send them to you
<ivoks> sistpoty: that was a mistake
<ivoks> sistpoty: now I got 5 mails in 4 minutes with questions how to do this, how to do that... :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> ping dholbach
<dholbach>  pong
<sistpoty> dholbach: I'd like to break uvf once again ;) python-soya (sp soya) and slune
<sistpoty> dholbach: to fix malone 2218
<sistpoty> dholbach: soya is http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=673
<sistpoty> dholbach: and slune should be on revu the very next minute
<sistpoty> dholbach: slune http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=674
<dholbach> sistpoty: can we get them in via debian?
<dholbach> oh you did all the work already
<sistpoty> dholbach: unfortunately no... both cannot be synced
<dholbach> because they're not transitioned yet?
<ivoks> ripping ipod from rhythmbox crashes X.
<ivoks> known bug?
<sistpoty> dholbach: no... soya has a hard dep on python2.3 in rules and slune has a dep/build-dep to a newer python-openal then breezy has
<sistpoty> dholbach: soya also didn't do the gl/glu-transition in debian (it did in breezy)
<dholbach> what about the newer build-dep?
<dholbach> do we need it too?
<sistpoty> dholbach: no... works fine with old python-openal... i just played two levels ;)
<dholbach> we might just have to cope with http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=325540
<dholbach> apart from that both versions are fine with me
<sistpoty> dholbach: this also occurs here... but it's only a warning ;)
<sistpoty> dholbach: cool, thx
<dholbach> thanks for your work on it :)
<sistpoty> maybe you could even upload it? *beg* ;)
<dholbach> sure
<sistpoty> :)
<sistpoty> go for soya first... ;)
<dholbach> 10 MB
<sistpoty> hehe
<dholbach> soya done
<sistpoty> :)... will wanna-build (or any of the girls on the buildd) recognize that it has to wait for soya to be built before trying slune?
<dholbach> yes
<sistpoty> cool... pretty smart ;)
<dholbach> "dep-wait"
<spayne> siretart: ping
<spayne> yo dholbach
<dholbach> should be on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads
<dholbach> hey spayne
<slomo_> spayne: read my questions about dopi? ;)
<spayne> slomo_: questions? dopi? i can't built it as ipod-sharp is too old
<slomo_> spayne: is 0.5.5 new enough?
<spayne> dholbach: tseng has uploaded resapplet :0
<spayne> slomo_: yes
<bddebian> Heya gang
<dholbach> sistpoty: done
<spayne> yo bddebian
<slomo_> spayne: will be uploaded tomorrow... if you want i can send you binaries for x86 now
<bddebian> Hello spayne, dholbach, slomo_
<slomo_> hi bddebian :)
<dholbach> hey barry
<spayne> slomo_: that's be great so i can get on packaging dopi. what questions did you have?
<slomo_> spayne: just that... wait i'll upload the stuff for you...
<spayne> how do i upload my key to keyserver.ubuntu.com?
<spayne> so siretart can add it the REVU key chain?
<dholbach> gpg --send-key <keyid>
<slomo_> spayne: http://slomosnail.de/~slomo/
<siretart> ah, so you are seb payne ;)
<spayne> slomo_: thanks
<bddebian> Do we have any wikis on the whole X11 include and libraries dirs mess?
<spayne> sirestart: spayne = sebpayne
<dholbach> bddebian: what are you looking for?
<siretart> spayne: gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-key 0x3913E86E
<bddebian> dholbach: WTH the directories are supposed to be now :-)
<spayne> siretart: done
<dholbach> siretart: how many uploaders/reviewers do we have?
<dholbach> siretart: how many uploaders/reviewers do you have on REVU? :)
<dholbach> bddebian: something   dlocate  ,  apt-file   or   packages.ubuntu,com/   do not know? :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: imo about 40 uploaders, but i can check the exact number
<spayne> i found another guy who can sign my key
<spayne> he is a Debian Developer as well :)
<dholbach> wow
<dholbach> sistpoty: i had no idea about how many we have
<dholbach> spayne: ROCK, GO GO GO GO!
<bddebian> dholbach: I dunno, I'm just a little confused by the whole scene :-)
<spayne> slomo_: those packages have broken banshee :(
<slomo_> spayne: that's why they're not uploaded yet ;) i wait for a new banshee release maybe tomorrow
<sistpoty> dholbach: actually it's 60 registered users :)
<dholbach> WOW
<dholbach> that's COOL
<siretart> spayne: done, you may proceed with uploading now
<spayne> siretart: thanks but tseng has done it for me :)
<bddebian> spayne: How about fixing stuff already in the archive?? :)
<spayne> bddebian: such as?
<bddebian> Malone bugs, UniverseUnmetDeps, you name it :-)
<spayne> slomo_: dopi still fails to autogen
<sistpoty> dholbach: there are some duplicate accounts (different email==different account)... btw.: there are 19 reviewers, that should actually be equal to #motus
<spayne> slomo_: "checking for DOPI... configure: error: Package requirements (gtk-sharp-2.0 ipod-sharp >= 0.5.5 entagged-sharp) were not met.
<spayne> Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you
<spayne> installed software in a non-standard prefix.
<spayne> "
<slomo_> spayne: uh... entagged-sharp
<slomo_> spayne: is there a release of entagged-sharp?
<slomo_> hm, fedora has packages for it... so there is a release... i'll package it then ;) tseng, that would also be something for pkg-mono?
<thesaltydog> siretart, how can I change my REVU password? Each time I have to look for the post-it and never find it..:-)
<siretart> thesaltydog: will be implemented with revu2
<thesaltydog> siretart, so I will better look for the post-it...
<sistpoty> thesaltydog: you could write an encrypted mail to me or siretart or even better to keyring@tiber.tauware.de
<sistpoty> thesaltydog: but don't use a pw that you use elsewhere, as pw's are stored in plaintext in the database
<dholbach> thesaltydog: or use the "i forgot my password" link
<siretart> my favorite solution would be to use the launchpad login
<slomo_> spayne: i'll notify you when i have working entagged-sharp packages
<sistpoty> siretart: would also be my favorite... but till then much more of revu2 needs to be written ;)
<ivoks> dholbach: ping :)
<thesaltydog> dholbach, sistpoty thanks, I've got the post-it!
<dholbach> ivoks: pong
<sistpoty> np thesaltydog
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<ivoks> dholbach: did you checkout jdub's speech over podcast or you downloaded ogg?
<ivoks> hi all
<dholbach> ivoks: yes i did :))
<ivoks> dholbach: which one? :)
<dholbach> ivoks: download the .ogg file
<ivoks> dholbach: podcasting or ogg?
<ivoks> ah... ok
<ivoks> i'm trying with ipodder
<ivoks> no luck :(
<sistpoty> bddebian: i cc'd you to mail regarding libxmerl-erlang... but unfortunately got no response from dd yet :(
<bmonty> hi all
<sistpoty> hi bmonty
<bddebian> sistpoty: Aye, I noticed. :-)
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<bmonty> morning for those in the US :)
<ivoks> it downloads, opens xmms and then ask me for a file to open :/
<bddebian> bmonty: Aye :-)
<sistpoty> bddebian: there is a newer upstream-version, if i find the time i'll package it... but i keep this as low prio for now ;)
<dholbach> morning bmonty
<bddebian> Someone please, I'm begging here.  What freaking files are where wrt X these days?  /usr/X11R6/bin are now in /usr/bin?  /usr/X11R6/include are now /usr/include/X11 ??
<bddebian> :-)
<dholbach> bddebian: are you looking for a specific file?
<spayne> slomo_: thanks
<slomo_> lol "tar: Anlegen eines leeren Archivs wird feige verweigert."
<sistpoty> rofl
<bddebian> dholbach: No I have a couple packages on Malone going to the wrong places.  For example xfonts-jmk puts the fonts in the wrong place.  And I know where they should go but there are some other related directory wierdness
<dholbach> hmhmhm
<zakame> hello all! :D
<dholbach> no idea
<dholbach> sorry
<dholbach> hi zakame
<bmonty> don't you love how different devs use different methods to move files??
<zakame> I've a q: if a package is ITP'd on Debian already, and that's stalled, and I want to build the same package for ubuntu, should I follow-up the ITP?
<bmonty> I keep getting "gcc-3.4 command not found" for building a module package, what is the right way to call a module package's makefile?
<slomo_> zakame: you can simply take the ITP and make you the owner
<zakame> slomo_: ah... but wouldn't the original owner be alarmed? :)
<slomo_> zakame: when it's stalled... but when you take the ITP you have to get it into debian somehow... when you don't want this just package it for us ;)
<zakame> slomo_: oh, ok :D
<zakame> I've just finished building my breezy-chroot and pbuilder, so I'm having a go with lighttpd... :)
<tseng> slomo_: uh
<tseng> slomo_: entagged-sharp isnt really used externally by anyone but dopi
<tseng> slomo_: let me bother snorp about something
<tseng> slomo_: entagged isnt something we want to package right now
<ivoks> um...
<slomo_> tseng: it doesn't hurt, does it?
<ivoks> how to create iso from CD? :)
<spayne> tseng: why don't we want to package it?
<bddebian> bmonty: No not realy :-)
<slomo_> tseng: that way we already have a package when it's finally api stable... and for the time beeing dopi can use it );
<tseng> because its completely API unstable
<Yagisan> ivoks: dd if=/dev/cdrom of=cd.iso
<ivoks> Yagisan: right! :)
<tseng> dopi should bundle it like everyone else for now
<Yagisan> ivoks: I find myself doint that too often!
<tseng> slomo_: the problem is, imagine if someone else decided to use the systemwide entagged
<spayne> isn't entagged-sharp used by beagle?
<ivoks> Yagisan: dd: reading `/dev/hdc': Input/output error
<ivoks> hm...?
<tseng> and dopi and that app get different stuff
<bmonty> bddebian: that might be an MOTU meeting agenda item...a standard way for moving file in ubuntu packages since there isn't one maintainer with responsibility for maintenance of the package
<tseng> spayne: you never listen
<tseng> everyone else bundles entagged
<spayne> i've just come back to this conv.
<Yagisan> ivoks: cd mounted ?
<ivoks> it's audio cd
<slomo_> tseng: sure, that would be the best... but why can't we just package entagged-sharp now when only dopi uses an external version?
<ivoks> Yagisan: audio cd :/
<Yagisan> ivoks: that may be why
<tseng> because if foobar uses the external version 0.4
<tseng> and dopi uses 0.3
<tseng> what are we to do
<ivoks> Yagisan: so, iso can't be created from AudioCD?
<tseng> slomo_: its "ok" to put completely unsupportable crazy stuff in universe, i just prefer not to
<Yagisan> ivoks: haven't tried -looking for an audio cd
<tseng> slomo_: as for pkg-mono, it will never fly
<tseng> i will try upstream and we will revisit the issue afterwards
<ivoks> Yagisan: it doesn't work :)
<slomo_> tseng: ok... then we'll just wait for now... but when it's api stable... i have the package ready on my hdd ;)
<tseng> heh cool
<tseng> what dopi does is really bad
<tseng> instead of including the entagged src in the tarball
<Yagisan> ivoks: found an audio cd
<ivoks> :}
<tseng> at build time it copies the global source into its source tree
<slomo_> tseng: just copied the debian directory from ipod-sharp and changed some strings ;)
<slomo_> tseng: so maybe we can just add entagged-sharp to dopi's source directory, remove the copying stuff and be happy?
<tseng> hm we could
<tseng> but that would be a huge patch
<tseng> i will tell snorp to do it
<tseng> if he doesnt, we can do that
<slomo_> we have to create a tarball anyway... it's from cvs/svn... so we can add it directly to the tarball
<tseng> eh
<Yagisan> ivoks: it seems k3b can copy it
<Yagisan> ivoks: it's copying now for me
<ivoks> Yagisan: yeah, for me too
<ivoks> Yagisan: but i need that for console :)
<slomo_> tseng: ?
<ivoks> readcd :)
<tseng> slomo_: i dont like that at all
<slomo_> tseng: me neither... but that big patches are annoying imho :/
<bmonty> #298 is ready for upload if anyone is so inclined :)
<tseng> so why cant we ask upstream
<Yagisan> ivoks: out of curiosity - why are you making iso's out of audio cds ?
<tseng> why do lots of evil things
<Yagisan> ltsp is main's problem isn't it ?
<tseng> blame og
<tseng> ogra
<slomo_> tseng: these were just ideas how we could solve it ;) spayne, please talk to snorp
<tseng> i will talk to snorp
<spayne> slomo_: I will talk to him - was talking to him last night actually
<ivoks> Yagisan: ah, to mount it on computer that lacks CDROM :)
<slomo_> tseng: haha... entagged-sharp is funny... make distclean removes all the autofoo-created stuff ;)
<tseng> i told you
<slomo_> ugly buildsystem... let's do real work again instead of bothering with that ;)
* Yagisan wants to smack ltsp with a big stick
* Yagisan just wants the ability to *consistently* log in and out of ltsp
<ivoks> dholbach: you are famous now :))
<slomo_> ivoks: ?
<tseng> jdub interview
<ivoks> yeah :)
<slomo_> oh... where?
<ivoks> fridge
<ivoks> sticked on the fridge :)
<tseng> fridge.ubuntu.com
<tseng> look for my pony
<ivoks> pony?
<tseng> in the random section
<tseng> refresh a bit
<tseng> and youll see my pny
<ivoks> :)
<tseng> 12:10 < tseng>  jdub i want a pony
<ivoks> yeah! i see it
<tseng> ask and you will receive
<slomo_> hmm... seems like i'm blind ;) i can't find it on fridge...
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> slomo_: which? the interview?
<slomo_> Nafallo: yes
<Nafallo> Interview with Jeff Waugh
<ivoks> :>
<slomo_> lol... ok, forget it ;) i looked for an interview with dholbach
<dholbach> haha :)
<ivoks> dholbach: now, your job is to mention someone else in your interview :)
<ivoks> like ogra :)
<ivoks> or doko ;)
<dholbach> ah i see :)
<dholbach> that's how it goes :)
<ivoks> seb payne
<ivoks> not here? :)
<ivoks> btw, ipodder rocks!
<bmonty> bddebian: ping
<\sh> re
<bmonty> hi \sh
* sistpoty needs to do make clean with his laundry... cya
<dholbach> bbl
<bddebian> bmonty: Yo?
<slomo> re
<bddebian> Heya slomo
<slomo> hi bddebian :)
<bmonty> bddebian: can you do an upload for me please?  #298
<Yagisan> hmm - breezys wine is broken
<\sh> again
<\sh> ?
<janimo> does revu allow upload of same version of package?i.e overwrite?
<janimo> just a file perm difference
<siretart> janimo: jepp!
<\sh> Yagisan: whats wrong with wine?
<siretart> janimo: just upload it again, revu is tolerant with package versions
<Yagisan> \sh: it would help if there was a dependency on X
<Yagisan> I just installed it in a fresh chroot
<siretart> hi \sh, hi slomo!
<Yagisan> on my amd64 box - so no x libs yet
<Yagisan> and it didn't pull the x libs in - so no display
<janimo> siretart thanks I will
<\sh> Yagisan: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), flex, bison, libx11-dev, libxt-dev,
<slomo> hi siretart
<\sh> oh this is build-dep
<Nafallo> hmm, broken and broken... ;-)
<Nafallo> I would rather call that "not as easy as it could be"
<Nafallo> :-P
<Yagisan> \sh: yep - no Depends
<\sh> I thought you mean "Broken" in the meaning of "uninstallable"
<siretart> hm. wasn't there some wine-tools package in the past?
<Yagisan> \sh: no - broken as in unuseable
<Yagisan> siretart: yes - but it won't work with new wine - the removed the config file
<mbreit> good evening!
<Yagisan> s/the/they
<\sh> siretart: new wine packages are coming along with dapper
<\sh> Yagisan: hmmm..I will fix it tomorrow...
<bddebian> Heya mbreit
<bddebian> bmonty: Aye, I'll check it out
<bmonty> bddebian: you da man
<siretart> \sh: I remember that winesetuptk is obsoleted by some newer config packages, but how are they called?
<Yagisan> thanks \sh:
<Yagisan> siretart: new wine is autoconfiguring itself
<\sh> siretart: uh...there are extra packages now...for some stuff, but normally it should autoconf itself...
* Yagisan wanted to play Total Anniliation
<siretart> hui
<siretart> lets try..
<siretart> pff, 56mb download..
<bmonty> bbl
<Yagisan> siretart: for what ?
<siretart> for wine binary package
<Yagisan> siretart: the wine deb was only 14mb for me
<Yagisan> are you grabbing source ?
<dholbach> re
<siretart> Yagisan: sorry, I mixed download size and installed size
<siretart> wb dholbach
<bddebian> bmonty: I can't get the patch to apply.  Is this for hostap-driver or hostap-modules-i386?
<dholbach> thanks siretart
<bddebian> wb Daniel
<dholbach> hey barry
<Yagisan> siretart: no worries :)
<janimo> hi dholbach, got my mail re motu-ml?
<mbreit> hey daniel
<dholbach> janimo: yes... got it - we should go for it
* Yagisan looks at clock - 4am! - time to go to bed
<dholbach> hey mbreit
* Nafallo agrees with Yagisan. 20:00.
<bmonty> bddebian: debdiff is for hostap-modules-i386
<bddebian> Hmm, I cant apply it there either!?
<bmonty> 298
<bddebian> bmonty: What patch level?  I've tried p0 and p1
<bmonty> I started with 0.3.7-1 source package, same for you?
<bddebian> Aye
<bmonty> I make the debdiff with the .dsc files, not sure what patch level that would be
* bddebian is striking out again today.. :-(
<Nafallo> bddebian: check the diff to find the patchlevel...
<j^> hostap is part of  2.6.12
<j^> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin//search_contents.pl?version=breezy&arch=i386&case=insensitive&word=hostap.ko&searchmode=searchfiles
<bmonty> hmm, why the seperate package then?
<j^> it was only merged to mainline in .12
<j^> and is the basis for the new wireless stack
<bddebian> Oh sure, now that I got it to apply :-)
<j^> which is used since .13 or .14
<bmonty> so in breezy this is a non-issue then
<bmonty> we can morgue the package
<bmonty> I'm going to reject #298 then
<\sh> ok...guys..I'm off until tomorrow evening...tomorrow I'll visit my son :)
<dholbach> have a good time, \sh :)
<bmonty> bye \sh
<\sh> dholbach: u too...I think tomorrow is big party in berlin, right?
<dholbach> is that so?
<\sh> 3rd of October?
<dholbach> because of the reunion?
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> dholbach: friend of mine is just visiting berlin because of this ;)
<bmonty> should it be rejected or fixed?
<\sh> bmonty: the runion?
<Nafallo> lol
<\sh> *rotfl*
<bmonty> \sh: no...
<dholbach> \sh: oh... i'll watch out for it :)
<bmonty> I'm cool with the reunion :)
<\sh> something to copy'n'paste as "freudscher versprecher" ,-)
<Nafallo> \sh: ehm, translate? :-)
<j^> lapsus linguae
<\sh>  Freudian slip
<Nafallo> ah
<Nafallo> from Berlin to where?
<\sh> Nafallo: normally, in berlin there are parties because of the german reunion...
<Nafallo> and you want to copy that to where? :-)
<j^> though, normaly in berlin there are parties
<j^> no need for a national holliday
<\sh> Nafallo: check the planet ;)
<Nafallo> nothing new it seems..
<Nafallo> my transparency was the last one...
<\sh> Nafallo: the new entry is coming ;)
<\sh> ok...cu tomorrow :)
<bddebian> Later shackan
<bddebian> Err \sh
* dholbach just found http://www.opensuse.org/Package_Wishlist
<bmonty> bddebian: #2780
<herzi> dholbach: do you have some free minutes?
<dholbach> herzi: sure
<bddebian> bmonty: OK, give me a bit
<bddebian> bmonty: Do you want me to upload 298 anyway, or did you reject it?
<thesaltydog> I have editbugs in Bugzilla but not in Malone... Is there any application form to fill?:-)
<bmonty> bddebian: I marked it as fixed
<bmonty> 298 that is
<bddebian> OK, thx
<bmonty> I don't see any reason to upload it if the module is distributed with the kernel image
<bddebian> Aye
<bddebian> OK, 2780 uploaded
<bmonty> now I just have to get elmo to morgue it
<dooglus> I'm trying to report a bug in the libmetakit2.4.9.3-dev package, but launchpad tells me there's no such package.  What should I do?
<bddebian> dooglus: I believe you must post the bug report against the source package
<dooglus> bddebian: ok, thanks.
<dooglus> bddebian: it doesn't accept the source package either.
<ajmitch> morning
<dholbach> morning ajmitch :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: I like to google things I come across that I don't know..
<bddebian> LaserJock: ??
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> well last night you said NAMBA and I couldn't figure out what you meant
<ajmitch> oh dear
<dooglus> LaserJock: NAMBLA maybe?
<LaserJock> so I googled it :-O
<LaserJock> yeah, good thing I didn't do an image search
<ajmitch> a *very* good thing
<LaserJock> my wife would have had some questions
<LaserJock> so my "Bddebian is a god" wiki page might turn into a "Bddebian is the devil" wikipage
<bddebian> Hehe
<bmonty> lol
<LaserJock> jk
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft - nothing on it? :)
<LaserJock> do you guys find Gnome's website to be utterly impossible to navigate?
<dholbach> LaserJock: it's ok
<bddebian> LaserJock: I do :-)
<dholbach> does anyone have an idea what SPECIAL thing i might forget in this time's motu report?
<bmonty> LaserJock: yes!
<LaserJock> I can never find anything, I am trying to complete my migration from a Suse and Gentoo KDE user to a full time Ubuntu Gnome user
<LaserJock> and I just can never find documentation or help or anything on their site
<bmonty> LaserJock: not unless you are willing to dig through the mail list archives
<bmonty> or at least thats the way it seems to me
<LaserJock> It's like they are so in love with their HUG that nobody should ever need documentation or instruction
<LaserJock> it's just intuitive
<bddebian> Anyone know anything about xmkmf?
<dholbach> no... sorry
<bmonty> bddebian: I think I played with that a little, let me see if I still have the files around
<bmonty> I can't find them :(
<bddebian> bmonty: I mean how it determines what to use.  xfonts-jmk is using it and an Imake file to make the Makefile but it seems to be grabbing the wrong config as it looks for bdftopcf in /usr/X11R6/bin instead of /usr/bin
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> hi bddebian, dholbach, ajmitch, and everyone
<bmonty> bddebian: the X make system has always been a mystery to me, sorry
<dholbach> hey tritium
<bddebian> bmonty: No shit :-(
<bddebian> Who does X stuff besides daniels?
<tseng> fabbio, infinity, kamion
<tseng> in crunches
<bmonty> #1620, I think it should be rejected.  firefox is required since the thing uses gecko.
<ivoks> hello
<bmonty> hi ivoks
<janimo> any reviewers for xubuntu-artwork appreciated, small native package mostly ripoff of the edu/kubuntu equivalent?
<janimo> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/xubuntu-artwork-0510021635/xubuntu-artwork-0.1/
<dholbach> janimo: did a review already
<janimo> hmm, I have done uploads since with the same version, corrected some  stuff
<janimo> thanks, will look at what you say
<janimo> dholbach, oh that was xubuntu-meta :) but thanks anyway
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> i made a comment to the artwork package
<janimo> hmm, there are no comments that I see...
<dholbach> you forgot something in the build-depends
<janimo> oh I see now
<dholbach> libbogl-dev or something
<janimo> why is it 0(0)
<dholbach> hrm
<janimo> in the summary section, isn't that comments/votes?
<ivoks> guys!!!
<janimo> dholbach, thanks for the catch, I cannot even copy paste :(
<ivoks> according to pcworld
<dholbach> we ROCK
<dholbach> :)
<ivoks> ubuntu is ranked 26. on best products this year!
<ivoks> we beat itunes! :)
<bddebian> Nice
<bmonty> I hate pcworld...completely worthless magazine in my opinion
<ivoks> http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120763,pg,12,00.asp
<ivoks> bmonty: that's irrelevant - this is great commercial :)
<ivoks> only one OS is better then ubuntu :/
* dholbach hugs ivoks
<dholbach> :)
<ivoks> that's second hug today :)
<ivoks> i'm being huged by famous dholbach :)
<dholbach> hahaha
<dholbach> "famous" :)
<dholbach> could somebody help "famous dniel holbck" to fill up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft?
<dholbach> :)
<UbuntuOne> Hello
<dholbach> hi ubuntulog
<dholbach> UbuntuOne: :)
<UbuntuOne> :p
* dholbach pipes innocently
<ivoks> dholbach: so... what should we do here?
<UbuntuOne> Hello ivoks
<UbuntuOne> we should go test Ubuntu help center :D
<Trashcan> I see what everyone in the mailing list was complaining about... dropline neu really feels 'childish'
<Trashcan> the cleanliness is nice, but it's a little too... colorful?
<ivoks> heh
<ivoks> mario is back
<ivoks> well... it's finnaly time for HR LoCo
<UbuntuOne> yup, yup, me back :)
<UbuntuOne> Shall we go test Ubuntu help center? :)
<UbuntuOne> It fails somewhere :/ It wont send mail with support ticket number :/
<janimo> dholbach, why is criawips a native package (todays upload at least)?
<janimo> and the changes file is 'acces denied'
<ivoks> UbuntuOne: you are doing it in wrong direction
<ivoks> UbuntuOne: that should be commercial
<UbuntuOne> Why? :p
<ivoks> UbuntuOne: ticket system for help... you need people to do that
<UbuntuOne> Well, I am the one :)
<ivoks> UbuntuOne: and you'll do that for free?
<UbuntuOne> I am more then enough :)
<ivoks> don't get me wrong....
<ivoks> there are docs and howtos and even a wiki
<UbuntuOne> yup, I know what you mean
<ivoks> giving personal support...
<ivoks> that's too much for no money
<UbuntuOne> :/
<ivoks> UbuntuOne: at least get google commercials :)
<UbuntuOne> Who would pay for something like that when they have IRC, docs, howtos, and wiki's :p
<UbuntuOne> Yup, I'll get google ads
<UbuntuOne> once I set up all :)
<ivoks> UbuntuOne: that's the thing... they have all community support
<ivoks> ticket system isn't community support
<ivoks> that's personal and professional support
<UbuntuOne> that's true :/
<UbuntuOne> I'll have to think :/
<UbuntuOne> How would they pay anyway? remember that we cant use Paypal in Crotia :/
<ivoks> ah... that's easiest thing to set up :)
<UbuntuOne> shoot the solution then :P
<ivoks> but... you also need professionals
<UbuntuOne> Me is greates proffesional :D
<ivoks> and we don't have a market in croatia
<UbuntuOne> yup, I know
<ivoks> so, if you are willing to give free personal support, go ahead :)
<ivoks> i have to much to do, don't have time to support for free :(
<bddebian> Grr, I'm not gettig shit fixed today.. :-(
<ivoks> bddebian: what shit?
<UbuntuOne> well, how should I set up a payed support then when Paypal doesnt support Croatia :p
<bddebian> ivoks: Anything :-(
<ivoks> UbuntuOne: open an account in bank
<ivoks> bddebian: bugs?
<bddebian> ivoks: Bugs or unmetdeps broken packages :-(
<UbuntuOne> oh :p
<ivoks> ah, time for bed :)
<UbuntuOne> ok, bye
<UbuntuOne> tell me when we are making LoCo :p
<bddebian> Later ivoks
<ivoks> UbuntuOne: as soon as I build some infrastructure
<UbuntuOne> oh,ok
<ivoks> UbuntuOne: mailing lists, calendar, schedule...
<UbuntuOne> Lemme know if you need help with that
<ivoks> np
<ivoks> bye
* ivoks hugs all MOTUs
<UbuntuOne> bye bye
<ryu> re
<UbuntuOne> hi ryu
<ryu> hi UbuntuOne
<dholbach> GNAAAAAAA
<dholbach> i uploaded a package to ubuntu instead of revu again
<ryu> dholbach, then you need to reupload it ^^
<siretart> :(
<siretart> is that something we can/should change for revu2?
<Nafallo> nope
<Nafallo> that's in the hands of the clients conf.
<dholbach> i'd need the ASCII-ART-BIG-LETTERS-WRITER plugged into dput
<dholbach> Y O U ' R E   A B O U T   T O   U P L O A D   T O     X Y Z     -   A R E   Y O U   S U R E ?
<Nafallo> dholbach: just make the default send stuff to /dev/null or something ;-)
<dholbach> Nafallo: i always typed      dput ubuntu bla*changes
<dholbach> i was trying to do too many things at once
<dholbach> *writing to elmo... again*
<Nafallo> hehe
<ajmitch> dholbach: pre-upload hooks :)
<bmonty> anyone use devhelp?
<dholbach> sometimes
<dholbach> some guy hacked on it recently... i hope they get another release out SOON
<bmonty> do you know anything about why debhelp-books was removed from debian?
<bmonty> er..devhelp-books
<dholbach> no, no idea
<bmonty> I'm looking at #1620 and trying to decide if this bug should be rejected or if the submitter has a point, I'm thinking this is a reject, but then I noticed that debian has made some major changes to these packages
<janimo> dholbach how about this dput wrapper?
<janimo> #!/bin/sh
<janimo> echo -n Uploading to
<janimo> figlet $1
<janimo> read
<janimo> dput $@
<janimo> :;
<janimo> :)
<dholbach> hehe ;)
<dholbach> that sounds excellent ;)
<dholbach> janimo: thank alot :)
<janimo> dholbach ;)
<bmonty> if I upgrade a package with new upstream source, does it reset the ubuntuX version to ubuntu1 ?? (package still has ubuntu specific stuff)
<dholbach> i'm off guys... have a nice evening
<bmonty> bya dholbach
<dholbach> bye bmonty
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-08
<janimo> bmonty, yes the program will have to be new-version-ubuntu1 and you merge upstream and ubuntu changes
<bmonty> janimo: thanks, I already uploaded it to REVU
<ryu> good night
<bddebian> KICK ASS
<tseng> eh
<bddebian> I fixed droidbattles finally :)
<tseng> good one
<bmonty> nice
<sebest> anyone using gnome-power-manager ?
<bmonty> sebest: yes
<sebest> bmonty: you don't have a crash when your battery is at 5% ?
<bmonty> sebest: no
<sebest> for me it crashes, i even have a backtrace of it
<bmonty> sebest: you should open a bug on it
<Trashcan> any idea why I have all the python gtk packages installed, but 'import gtk' fails?
<sebest> bmonty: i'll investigate it a bit more
<sebest> Trashcan, you only need pygtk
<Trashcan> i have that
<sebest> python-gtk2
<Trashcan> python-gtk2 is already the newest version.
<sebest> do you have /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0 ?
<Trashcan> yup
<sebest> and ../pygtk.py ?
<Trashcan> yeh
<sebest> does "import pygtk" works?
<Trashcan> yessir
<sebest> is it python 2.4 ?
<Trashcan> yes
<Trashcan> hang on
<sebest> try this:
<sebest> import pygtk
<sebest> print pygtk._get-available_versions()
<sebest> oups
<bddebian> LaserJock: Your ghemical and mopac stuff just came through
<sebest> print pygtk._get_available_versions()
<Trashcan> {'2.0': '/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0', '1.2': '/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-1.2'}
<Trashcan> it's something else causing hte problem
<sebest> no do this:
<sebest> pygtk.require('2.0')
<sebest> and try importing gtk: import gtk
<sebest> btw why do you have gtk-2.0 in /usr/local ???????
<Trashcan> that's where it installed to :\
<Trashcan> http://trashes.pastebin.com/381157
<sebest> you compiled it from source?
<Trashcan> nope
<Trashcan> synaptic
<sebest> so rm -rf it
<sebest> synaptic never install stuff in /usr/local afaik
<slomo> Trashcan: our packages install the stuff into /usr
<LaserJock> bddebian: great news, so when would it be in the repo?
<Trashcan> :\
<Trashcan> i never compiled
<Trashcan> i never even downloaded it
<Trashcan> heh
<sebest> rm -rf /usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0
<Trashcan> k
<Trashcan> is it possible it came with something else I compiled?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Hard to say since libghemical and mopac7 are NEW.
<Trashcan> deleted
<sebest> retry the get_avail ...
<slomo> ok, good night everybody :)
<sebest> night slomo
<Trashcan> {'2.0': '/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0', '1.2': '/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-1.2'}
<Trashcan> night slomo
<sebest> Trachcan, it looks better now
<Trashcan> it works fine now
<Trashcan> :)
<sebest> ;)
<Trashcan> thanks!
<sebest> u'r welcome ;)
<Trashcan> I'm a windows dev, so I've never touched this gtk stuff :)
<Trashcan> I've never touched python, at that
<sebest> i'm also new to python
<sebest> the more i use it, the more i like it :)
<Trashcan> same :D
<sebest> bed time for me, bye Trashcan
<Trashcan> night
<ajmitch> afternoon
<bmonty> hey ajmitch
<tambaqui> afternoon?
<ajmitch> bddebian: you let unfixed bugs creep up to 500 again!
<ajmitch> I just had to close one to compensate
<tambaqui> ok, I'm sorry in Brasil is night
<ajmitch> tambaqui: that's nice, but it's afternoon where I am :)
<tambaqui> ok :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Aye sorry. :'-(  I have sucked today :'-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: at least you fixed droidbattles
<ajmitch> it's monday here, so I can't fix many
<bmonty> I've been watching bddebian all day and he has been slacking!
<bddebian> Aye :-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: well how are you going to get 1337 karma if you don't fix bugs? ;)
<bmonty> lol
<bddebian> ajmitch: No shix :-(
* ajmitch write up bddebian in the MOTU report
<bddebian> pfft
* Kyral thinks to himself *Do I really wanna become a MOTU after watchin' these guys?* :P
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> ajmitch: Better to put in bmonty :-)
<bmonty> put in that I'll never be an MOTU cause I can't get to the technical board meetings
<ajmitch> oh I shoudl put in both of you
<bddebian> bmonty: :(
* Kyral sighs
<Kyral> At least you guys have a sense of humor
<ajmitch> we do? ;)
<bddebian> Kyral: ajmitch doesn't ;-P
<bmonty> I was going to take Tuesday as a half day to get the to the meeting, my boss was good with it, but then scheduled me for an all day class on that day!
* Kyral bounces around the room
<bddebian> bmonty: So just quit. ;-P
<Kyral> Indeed Indeed! For in this life to be serious all the time is quite a waste indeed!
<bmonty> bddebian: quitting in not an option for me :)
<Kyral> I'll take his spot
<bddebian> bmonty: Yeah me either but it sounds good sometimes doesn't it? :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: you're right, I don't have a sense of humour
<Kyral> Oh well, I'm just sitting around to learn. But right now Love Hina calls
<bmonty> wtf is "Love Hina"??
<ajmitch> Kyral: learn away :) you want to help fix bugs?
<Kyral> Anime :D
<bmonty> ...or maybe I don't want to know
<Kyral> ajmitch, I've already helped out in #ubuntu-desktop
<ajmitch> yes, I saw you were there
<Kyral> But tonight I need to relax 'cause tomarrow I gotta work my butt off. Big contest starting
<bmonty> bddebian: did you use that -D with the compile options for xmkmf?
<bddebian> bmonty: Aye
<bmonty> no dice?
<ajmitch> ah, xmkmf
<bddebian> It seems to get re-assigned again by the X11.rules
<bddebian>  /etc/X11/config/cf/X11.rules:41: warning: "XBinDir" redefined
<bddebian> ajmitch: You know it?
<bmonty> grep the source for it and delete the lines :)
<bddebian> bmonty: I personally think our xmkmf package is b0rked but I ain't touching that one :-)
<bmonty> I wouldn't either
<ajmitch> bddebian: I just know that you need to sacrifice a goat to the spirits of X to get it to work
<bddebian> ajmitch: That seems to be the general response/feeling :-)
<bmonty> where is a good reference on debconf's config file?
<Kyral> Well that was unpleasent
<bddebian> bmonty: Did you say you were already looking at libmetakit?
<bmonty> bddebian: I don't think so
<bddebian> OK
<bmonty> I'm looking at msttcorefonts right now
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<bddebian> Gotta run for  bit.  bbl
<crimsun> hey bddebian
<bmonty> bbl
<bmonty> bddebian: check out the new xmkmf package
<bddebian> ajmitch: Got another 1.. ;-P
<ajmitch> yay
* ajmitch is at work, can hardly spend much time bug fixing :P
* ajmitch should just give up on nit
<ajmitch> s/nit/it/
<bddebian> mwuhahaha
* bddebian looks at pornview bug just for fun
<ajmitch> sure
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> Maybe I'll rename it NAMBLAview ;-P
<bigcx2> hey guys
<bddebian> Hello bigcx2
<ajmitch> bddebian: suits you :)
<bigcx2> how long does it usually take to get approved as a ubuntu member?
<ajmitch> hello bigcx2
<ajmitch> bigcx2: it depends on what work you've done
<ajmitch> since they look for contributions over a period of time
<bigcx2> ahh so they consistently check out your wiki page, etc until they feel you've contributed enough?
<ajmitch> no, that would be too much work :)
<bigcx2> lol i see
<ajmitch> you turn up at  community council meeting
<bddebian> ajmitch: :-)
<ajmitch> and it gets reviewed there
<ajmitch> and people speaj up for you saying how they'v worked with you, your contibutions, etc
<ajmitch> s/speaj/speak/
<bigcx2> oh ok
* bddebian is still amazed that he got in :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: why?
<bigcx2> i haven't exactly worked with anybody on a project yet but i just finished writing some documentation and fixing a broken package...
<bddebian> ajmitch: From my lack of contributions. ;-P
<bigcx2> bddebian: what did you do to get in initially?
<bddebian> bigcx2: I just tried to help with fixing packages.
<ajmitch> bddebian: sure, you've done *nothing*.. right..
<bddebian> ajmitch: Right ;-P
<bddebian> bigcx2: And made some wiki pages, etc
<ajmitch> they were desperate for people when they let me in :P
<bigcx2> alright well @ least i'm on the right path
<bigcx2> lol
<ajmitch> they'd take anyone who was barely warm
<bddebian> ajmitch: Oh OK Mr. DD
<bigcx2> haha
<bigcx2> DD?
<ajmitch> bddebian: I wasn't then
<bddebian> bigcx2: Debian Developer
<bigcx2> Debian Developer
<bigcx2> duh
<bigcx2> lol
<bigcx2> that's pretty sweet
<tambaqui> :)
<bddebian> bigcx2: Yeah, ajmitch is a stud :)
* ajmitch sighs
<ajmitch> my main contribution is lurking on IRC
<bigcx2> so can anybody tell me why ubuntu and debian don't just merge together and make one unstoppable linux beast
<ajmitch> because they have different goals, and trying to make debian fit a 6 month release cycle would be painful?
<bddebian> Different philosphies
<bddebian> philosophies even
<bigcx2> i guessed it had somethin to do with releases
<bigcx2> what's the difference in philosophy?
<bigcx2> the way administration is handled?
<ajmitch> debian is the 'universal OS', for many architectures & a huge number of supported packages
<ajmitch> which makes it great to make derivatives from
<bddebian> From an outsider perspective I think Ubuntu tends to be more desktop oriented where Debian not so much so
<bigcx2> yea i can see that
<bigcx2> i guess as long as changes made in ubuntu (i.e. bugs, etc) can be easily pushed back into debian and vice versa there isn't a problem
<bigcx2> do you guys think that's the case as it is now?
<ajmitch> that's what we aim to do
<ajmitch> and it's working somewhat
<ajmitch> but there are people involved, so things don't always run smooth :)
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<bigcx2> i hear ya
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> hmm im having serious slowdown over here
<ajmitch> so am I
* ajmitch running windows :P
<bddebian> heh
<bigcx2> oh wait a sec
<bigcx2> ajmitch: you're the guy that's taking care of my zope-ldap bug report on malone
<bigcx2> just got the connection there
<ajmitch> oh, that's you :)
<ajmitch> you have the package for me to look at? :)
* ajmitch has hardly seen chmj around
<bigcx2> yea it's on my homepage but i think our server might be pissed right now :) hold on
<ajmitch> the way I was using dh_installzope, it complained
<Kyral> Are there are Universe Candidates I can take a shot at?
<bigcx2> i couldn't do it in one file
<ajmitch> Kyral: sure, pick one on the wiki page, check that it's not already in universe or on revu.tauware.de
<ajmitch> bigcx2: it's not meant to be done in one file, I think
<bigcx2> right, but in the current version it is
<bigcx2> :)
<bigcx2> my wepage is kinda bein squirrely right now
<bigcx2> s/wepage/webpage
<bigcx2> how else can i get it to ya
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> I'm gonna tackle ABC
<ajmitch> bigcx2: email a debdiff to me
<ajmitch> bigcx2: if you changed it, and changed debian/changelog
<ajmitch> then you can dpkg-buildpackage -S
<ajmitch> to get a new .dsc file
<bddebian> *sigh*  No one wants to fix the broken stuff
<ajmitch> and debdiff oldversion.dsc newversion.dsc
<ajmitch> bddebian: that's what you were hired for
<bigcx2> alright
<bddebian> Heh
<bigcx2> brb
<bddebian> Well I haven't seen my paycheck yet.. ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: we pay with with our love & respect ;)
<Kyral> So if I get this packaged I just send it to one of you guys?
<ajmitch> Kyral: ideally you'd upload it to revu.tauware.de
<bddebian> Kyral: No, you need to request an account on revu
<Kyral> I'm not a MOTU
<Kyral> just a MOTU wannabe :P
<ajmitch> that's what it's there for
<bddebian> ajmitch: Then I'm definetly underpaid.. ;-P
<ajmitch> so non-MOTUs can upload stuff
<ajmitch> and we check it
<ajmitch> bddebian: ok, we really pay you in abuse ;)
<Kyral> oh wait...I should make a Hoary Chroot for this..
<ajmitch> why hoary?
<Kyral> 'cause I'm in Breezy :P
<ajmitch> so?
<Kyral> good point!
<ajmitch> we always develop packages for the current development release
<Kyral> Here goes!
<bddebian> ajmitch: Oh is that what we are supposed to be doing?? :-)
* Kyral lets his hand shine and activates the dh_make
* ajmitch watches the world cry out at the use of dh_make
<ajmitch> bddebian: apparantly
<Kyral> its the only way I know how right now :P
<ajmitch> I'm just biased :)
<Kyral> hold on, there is no Makefile....is that gonna be a problem?
<Kyral> Anyway Showering calls
<bigcx2> ajmitch: what email should is send it to
<bigcx2> i*
<ajmitch> ajmitch@ubuntu.com will be fine
<bigcx2> alright, sent it
<bmonty> good night everyone
<jsgotangco> night
<bigcx2> night
<bddebian> Gnight bmonty
<bddebian> I think I'll call it a night too.  Later folks
* bigcx2 thinks hard about sleep
<ajmitch> bigcx2: looks very similar to what I did :)
<ajmitch> except I was getting:
<ajmitch> dh_installzope python/Products/ZLDAPMethods
<ajmitch> dh_installzope: unable to handle directories and multiple dzproduct/dzextension files
<bigcx2> hm
<bigcx2> i know mine worked
<bigcx2> i put it in our local repository
<bigcx2> and tested it
<bigcx2> i don't remember getting any errors
<bigcx2> it will be nice when i can just upload my stuff into universe
<bigcx2> :)
<ajmitch> it can take a little while
<bigcx2> ajmitch: what all did you put into those two files
<ajmitch> aha
<ajmitch> + zope-ldap (1.1.0-3ubuntu2) hoary; urgency=low
<ajmitch> we build for breezy
<ajmitch> a few patch hunks were rejected
<bigcx2> whoops, didn't think about that one
<bigcx2> hold on a sec
<ajmitch> I can fix that up
<ajmitch> since debian/control rejected as well for some reason
<bigcx2> can you tell that from the debdiff
<bigcx2> i've never had to use that before
<ajmitch> not off hand
<ajmitch> but I'm still at work :)
<ajmitch> so I'll fix it up when I go home in a few minutes
<bigcx2> alright cool
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> how would I package a bunch of py files?
* bigcx2 is going to hit the sack
<bigcx2> night
<ajmitch> bigcx2: night :)
<ajmitch> Kyral: does it use distutils?
<Kyral> wazzat>
<ajmitch> is there a setup.py there?
<Kyral> a setupabc.py
<ajmitch> right, so probably not
<ajmitch> so you'll have to write most of the installation or hack setupabc.py :)
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> and I know nothing about Python
<Kyral> but what is DistUtils?
<ajmitch> you know nothing about python, but you want to package this?
<Kyral> I didn't know it was in Python until I unpacked it
<ajmitch> \sh! :)
<\sh> moins
<\sh> gnarf
<\sh> doko_: did u requested a sync of rrdcollect?
<\sh> doko_: because it is like this, please check the next time the buildds, if the source compiles :(
<Kyral> Ack! Time for an ugly hack!
<ajmitch> bbiab, time to walk home
<Kyral> well this is interesting
<Kyral> anyone ever hear of scons?
<tritium> make replacement?
<lifeless> yes
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> this vDrift uses it
<\sh> and sometimes a real buildd beast
<Kyral> I wonder if dh_make is gonna freak out..
<\sh> what has dh_make to do with it?
<Kyral> Its the only way I know how to make packages right now
<\sh> it won't even recognize scons ;) so u have to deal with it in debian/rules itself
<Kyral> ah
* Kyral activates Emacs
<Kyral> well one hurdle is outta the way, thing compiles and runs by itself nicely
<Kyral> I'll finish this tomarrow
<Kyral> Shouldn't be hard IF the changes I made in Rules hold..
<\sh> hmmm..why don't we have the lastfm player in universe?
<ajmitch> yay, new memory card for camera, I can take plenty of UBZ photos now ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: bah..I need a new camera first ;)
<tritium> anyone en route to UBZ that passes through New Mexico is welcome at my place
<ajmitch> flying through SF & vancouver, sorry :)
<tritium> :)
<tritium> Yeah, it's not a likely stop for many here :)
<ajmitch> \sh: I picked up my tickets today from the travel agent, too ;)
<ajmitch> sigh, I still need more karma :)
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, what is the flight number out of vancouver?
<ajmitch> umm
<ajmitch> let me check
<ajmitch> AC182
<\sh> woo...the fog
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, you are flying later in the day than me
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: or earlier
* Burgundavia gets to be at the airport for a 6am flight, the joys of flying east
<ajmitch> I get into Montreal at 7:11AM on the 29th
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, AC flight numbers are linear
<Burgundavia> ouch
<ajmitch> when do you arrive?
<\sh> ajmitch: what? so prepare some beer for siretart and me we're joining you around 17:00 montreal time ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: I think we're having a little celebration on the 29th anyway ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: hehe...drinking the jetlag away ;)
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, hmm, odd, 3:40 pm of me
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> jetlag+alcohol would be harsh
<\sh> ajmitch: well...I'm starting with this drinking party around 8am UTC ;)
<ajmitch> :)
<\sh> ajmitch: well...for us it's not a problem...starting 14:00 UTC+2 -> arrival in montreal: 16:00 montreal time
<ajmitch> ah
<\sh> so actually a 2 hours flight *sigh*
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I go the other way
<ajmitch> leave NZ on the 28th, at 8:20pm
<ajmitch> arrive in SF on the 28th, at 12:20 :)
<ajmitch> so I go back in time
<ajmitch> going home, I have a flight that leaves the US on the 15th & arrives in auckland on the 17th
<\sh> wow...
* ajmitch might need to drink a few to get over that one ;)
<Burgundavia> it took me 3 days to get home from mataro
<Burgundavia> I had two overnight stays, one in London and one in Vancouver
<ajmitch> I made sure I don't have any overnight stays
<ajmitch> I do have 8 hours to kill in LAX though :(
<Burgundavia> couldn't avoid it
<Burgundavia> nothing left spain early enough to get a westbound flight
<Burgundavia> as the last one leaves around 3 pm
<\sh> well...for us it's quite good...
<\sh> leaving cologne at 10:54 .de time, arriving 11:45 .de time in frankfurt, leaving 2pm .de time frankfurt so only 2 1/4 hours to kill...but I think there will be some other ubuntu guys to meet up with and have a drink
<ajmitch> btw can people fill in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft so that dholbach doesn't have to do it all, please? :)
<\sh> hmmm....
<\sh> I need to test a new daily iso
<ajmitch> for your network driver?
<\sh> yepp
<\sh> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16785 <- nice one I figured out
<ajmitch> oh, that one :)
<ormandj> is there any reason postfix-mysql is linked to libmysql10 instead of 12 like every other mysql depending program?
<ormandj> or is that something i should submit a bug report on?
<ajmitch> file bug
<ormandj> ajmitch, hi :) nice to see you again, how are you today?
<ormandj> and ok, will do.
<ajmitch> I'm good, how are you?
<ormandj> well, i spent the last week working on LDAP as a directory server for all of the server-side apps, and it's just so backwards it's retarded, so i'm going to deploy mysql for that purpose instead
<ormandj> so was bad, but now good
<ormandj> when the only source of good documentation is RFCs, something is wrong. ;)
<ajmitch> especially when things don't follow the RFCs properly :)
<ormandj> yes, which is what i ran into, and why i've been tearing my hair out, lol
<ormandj> i'll just cluster a bunch of mysql servers to effectively do the same thing as replication in LDAP and be done with it
<ormandj> now if only ubuntu.com would let me login :P
<ajmitch> :)
<ormandj> how's life treating you ajmitch?
<ajmitch> fairly well, finished work for the day
<ormandj> good good, you're a kiwi i see, like it there? i only visited once so i'm a bit curious :)
<ajmitch> yeah, I am, it's quite good
<ajmitch> when were you in NZ?
<ajmitch> btw what's the time there now? I'm curious to see what TZ difference there is
<ormandj> i was there about 2 years ago, in march. (2003)
<ormandj> it's 2015 here
<ajmitch> nice, did you visit dunedin?
<ajmitch> ok, 1915 here
<ormandj> i'm horrible with names, anything i should remember if i did?
<ajmitch> dunedin is down south
<ajmitch> if you visited the south island :)
<ormandj> na, i don't believe i did
<ajmitch> that's a shame
<ormandj> that's the nice part?
<ajmitch> it's the nicest part  :)
<ormandj> hehe
<ormandj> well, i leave the country once a month or so, i'll put it on my list. you suggest dunedin?
<jsgotangco> is the south island middle earth? =)
<ormandj> jsgotangco, no, that's hawaii where i live :P
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: no, but parts of middle earth were in the south :)
<ajmitch> ormandj: dunedin is just where I live at the moment
<ajmitch> not a bad little town
<ajmitch> we've got linux.conf.au here in january
<Yagisan> ajmitch: note the .au
<ajmitch> Yagisan: of course
<ormandj> nice. when exactly? i'll be in romania until about the 8th of janurary
<ajmitch> 23rd-28th Jan
<Yagisan> hehe - you'll be two more states soon hehe
<ormandj> hm, i might be able to work that out. pretty nice conference?
<ajmitch> Yagisan: unlikely - NZ would join as one state I think
<Yagisan> ajmitch: sorry - I just could not resist
<ajmitch> ormandj: yeah, one of the best technical conferences still around
<ajmitch> Yagisan: I'm just waiting for the common border, common currency, and common deportation rules ;)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: Although for most intents and purposes - we are one country
<ajmitch> of course
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, lot's of places to stay during linux.conf?
<ajmitch> the south island wouldn't be self sufficient enough to have a state government
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: I hope so :)
<jsgotangco> well i wouldn't really want to sleep in a tent...
<Yagisan> ajmitch: well if tasmiania can be a state - I don't see why south island can't
<ormandj> ajmitch, i'll probably be pestering you about that come december when i start making plans
<ajmitch> Yagisan: how many people in tasmania?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: about half a million
<ajmitch> ok
<Yagisan> ajmitch: south island ?
<ajmitch> a bit more than that, maybe 800K people
<ajmitch> brb
* Yagisan will brb
<slomo> doko: already told elmo/lamont/infinity to remove eclipse from pas at least for amd64 and ppc?
<marcin_a`> hi guys
<markuman> hi, for my first upload package on revu i have make it wrong :-/ and so ive build it new. should i upload it or waiting for deleting my first upload?
<siretart> markuman: just reupload your new try
<marcin_a`> could someone tell me if there is a difference between: dpkg-buildpackage and running debian/rules binary directly in sources tree?
<siretart> markuman: your new upload will get another upload id, no problem therefore
<siretart> morning folks
<janimo> hi siretart
<ajmitch> hi
<siretart> marcin_a`: dpkg-buildpackage does a bit more. look in /usr/bin/dpkg-buildpackage for details, it is written in perl
<siretart> morning janimo, hi ajmitch
<marcin_a`> siretart: hmm I don't know perl but this script is pretty easy to understand... it does a bit more but not much
<marcin_a`> siretart: anyway thanks for info
<siretart> marcin_a`: you're welcome
<markuman> hm, i think i need a little help for log in on revue. gpg -d and there is nothing for copy and paste :-/
<markuman> or am i wrong?
<sistpoty> hi folks
<slomo> all dead here? ;)
* sistpoty is alive
<sistpoty> slomo: should we morgue ghc5?
<slomo> yes... i know of at least 3 people who said that this should be morgued ;)
<sistpoty> ok, so be it ;)
<slomo> but seems like elmo doesn't like to remove stuff from the archives... at least he didn't answer my mails
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> you did ask him to morgue it already?
<slomo> no... but other stuff
<sistpoty> ok
<slomo> but... if you write him a mail maybe include my stuff too ;)
<sistpoty> *g*
<slomo> what's your email address? i'll forward my mail to you ;)
<sistpoty> daemon@poleboy.de and now even sistpoty@ubuntu.com ;)
<slomo> ok, sent
<sistpoty> I'd like to ask the dd (wibble) about ghc5 first, maybe he's got some deeper insights... what do you think?
<slomo> don't know... so better ask him :)
<sistpoty> ok, I'll cc you ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: mail to wibble is out
* sistpoty is now off to go swimming and enjoying some free time
<sistpoty> cya
<siretart> bye sistpoty!
<siretart> gnarf, too late :/
<zakame> hi all
<Kyral> Good morning
<Kyral> Time to start hacking away again
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Kyral> yo
<Kyral> sup
<bddebian> Heya Kyral
* Kyral considers adding "MOTU In Training" to his Wikipage
<Kyral> Right now I'm hoping that the changes I made to the Rules file for vdrift hold up
<bddebian> Heh
<Kyral> tried to modify it to use scons
<Kyral> Have no clue if its gonna work
<Kyral> Ah well, only one way to find out
<Kyral> Actually the prospect of me becoming a MOTU both amuses and scares people at my Linux Lab
<bddebian> Hehe, I know that feeling :-)
<Kyral> Had a friend who uses Debian tell me "Stay out of my Distro!"
<Trashcan> :p
<Kyral> Actually if any of you guys could spare a sec could you look at a project I have been working on?
<bddebian> Kyral: I can't at the moment but maybe in a bit
<Kyral> yah its no prob
<Kyral> thing is still beta...
<Trashcan> what is it exactly?
<Kyral> Eh, Link is better :P
<Kyral> espcially since I'm coding right now
<Kyral> http://www.clarkson.edu/projects/cosi/fa2005/students/petermcv/
<Kyral> the second one
<Kyral> And before you ask WHY it was made in C++, its because its the only language I'm proficient in (aside from HTML and CSS) right now
<zakame> hmmm, lighttpd has so many deps
<Kyral> Gah, who is the Copyright holder to vDrift?
<Kyral> Its clear that its GPL2, but who is the owner?
<Kyral> I'll just put the guy who is in charge of the SourceForge project for it
<Kyral> err, the developer guys :P
<Seveas> hi ogra!
<ogra> hi
<Seveas> ogra, I wanna triage bugs and mdz is a bit unresponsive
<Seveas> can you give me editbug privileges?
<ogra> he's away, and i'll be soon too.. its a public holiday here
<ogra> yup
<Seveas> thanks!
<Kyral> hey I change "unstable" to "breezy" right?
<Kyral> in the changelog?
<ogra> Seveas, whats your bugzilla account ?
<bddebian> Kyral: Yes
<bddebian> Heya ogra
<Seveas> dennis@kaarsemaker.net
<ogra> ah, double n ;)
<Kyral> hey can you enable mine to mark things in the Bugzilla too?
<ogra> Seveas, done
<ogra> bddebian, hi
<Seveas> ogra, tyvm!
<ogra> :)
<Seveas> let the triaging begin :)
<blueyed> Where should I file a bug report for package "translate" (from universe) in Breezy?
<bddebian> w00t Seveas
<bddebian> blueyed: Malone
<bddebian> Seveas: I've got one for ya if you are looking for something to fix! :-)
<Kyral> Anyone wanna suggest how I built a package that I shouldn't have been able to?
<zakame> hmmm... which is better? one lighttpd with all the features, or several lighttpd-* pkgs with individual features?
<Kyral> well holy cow
<Kyral> it seems that my rules hack to scons worked
<Kyral> or not..
<bddebian> Kyral: Why shouldn't you have been able to
<Kyral> Because accordng to the objdump I didn't have libstdc++6-dev (which I listed as a build-dep 'cause thats what dpkg -S turned up)
<Kyral> anyone know what I have to pass to Sconstruct to get it to install into the current dir?
<Kyral> nm..
* Kyral grumbles
<Kyral> anyone know the equiv to install -d in scons?
<dereks_> anyplans for ifolder support in breezy?
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> he didn't have time to wait or something, said peer :-).
<Kyral> Thing compiles fine, but it keeps trying to install into the system..
<ryu> hi
<zakame> hmm, what do I do if the upstream source has a ./debian dir?  shall I move it somewhere else?  or shall I kindly ask upstream to remove it?
* Kyral pounds his head into the wall
<Kyral> I hate scons....
<Kyral> Why oh why can't people stick with Makefiles?
<bddebian> WTF is scons?
<Kyral> some python based Make replacement
<bddebian> Ahh
<Kyral> Which vdrift just happens to use
<bddebian> Use install -d in your rules to move the files around if you have to :)
<Kyral> Scons doesn't USE install -d
<bddebian> I understand that but you are using a debian/rules file right?
<Kyral> yah
<zakame> could that be a bug?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: avahi 0.5.2 will be a sync from experimental soon
<Kyral> SCons is basically a python script. And since I don't know python...
<Kyral> or do you mean preface the scons command with install -d?
<bddebian> Kyral: paste your debian/rules to a pastebin somewhere
<Kyral> Thing builds fine, its just that it tries to jump to the root of the system
<bddebian> What do you mean by jump to the root??
<zakame> cd / ?
<Kyral> It tries to install into /usr/games
<bddebian> Is it a dh_make package?
<Kyral> #ubuntu-scons
<Kyral> no
<Kyral> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/2738
<Kyral> and here is the error (at the bottom)
<Kyral> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/2739
<Kyral> I'm half ready to say **** scons and write a Makefile
<bddebian> Kyral: Ah.  Yes, what I am saying is that in install: build section after the scons isntall ... line, you should be able to do something like  install -d -m 644 $(CURDIR)/debian/vdrift-20051002/foo/bar $(CURDIR)/usr/foo/bar
<bddebian> Heya seth_k
<seth_k> hey bddebian
<seth_k> wanna take my next Organic Chem exam for me?
<Kyral> bddebian, it won't even install unless those things are there in the first place
<Kyral> Anyone know the license on Glaxium? The guy seems to have given it up almost a year ago
<bddebian> seth_k: Sure if you don't mind failing it :-)
<seth_k> bddebian, couldn't be any worse than I'm doing :D
<seth_k> teacher is a nut
<bddebian> Heh
* Kyral slams his head into the wall
<Kyral> Someone else do this
<Kyral> I'm gonna go work on Glaxium
<Kyral> If the guy stated he is done (and no longer working on it) what license does it fall under?
<Lathiat> Kyral: try google, check ti out, that or look in the /usr/share/docs/glaxium/copyright file
<Kyral> or I could try looking in the tarball first...
<Kyral> Ah, GPL
<Kyral> README to the rescue!
<Lathiat> well, the copyright file in the package will always have the info
<Kyral> and I feel like an idiot :P
<Lathiat> and sometimes finding th einfo in various tarballs is hard
<Kyral> Lathiat, its a sourceball
<Lathiat> hence using the debian file the maintainer did the hard work for you ;p
<Kyral> and the RPMs date to RH8
<Kyral> I think its better to compile this one from source :P
<Lathiat> oh so theres nod eb package, isee
<Kyral> Its in Universe Candidates
<Lathiat> ok
<Kyral> How convenient this thing uses AutoConf
<Kyral> that means I don't have to mess with the Makefiles right?
<pef> hello
<bddebian> Heya pef ;-)
<pef> can someone archive kvpnc on REVU ? already uploaded
<bddebian> Hmm, I wonder if I can do that
<bddebian> siretart: ping?
<siretart> bddebian: you're lucky, man, just connected :)
<Kyral> Oh well, I'll package this later
<bddebian> :-)
<Kyral> I have a contest to win
<bddebian> siretart: Did you see pef's question?
<Kyral> dangit
<Kyral> I won't be able to get my GPG Key signed by any Ubuntu person until UbuntuBelowZero
<siretart> ah, now I see it
<siretart> mom
<bddebian> mom?
<Nafallo> bddebian: yea, you know... the one that got you in to this world.
<bddebian> Heh
<siretart> just a moment
<Kyral> I need my GPG Key signed before I can upload to REVU right?
<siretart> Kyral: you should, but for revu, I accept also unsigned keys
<Kyral> Well I can get my friends who also have GPG to sign them
<Kyral> but no Ubuntites right now
<siretart> kvpnc is already archived, huh?
<siretart> Kyral: tell me your keyid
<Kyral> uuh, lemme snag it
<Kyral> I'm like doing 5 things at once
<siretart> same here
<Kyral> 0F1A6639
<Kyral> Its on my Launchpad and on my Wiki too
<siretart> Kyral: done
<Kyral> so I just upload the pack to Revu when I get it done?
* Kyral looks for the tool..
<Kyral> dupload right?
<siretart> Kyral: you are free to use dupload, I prefer dput, though ;)
<Kyral> well I don't have either
* ivoks yay!
<ivoks> lol, spam of the week :)
<ivoks> from debiantux23
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ivoks> hey bddebian
<spayne> yo gang
<spayne> slomo: pinh
<ivoks> bddebian: like what?
<ivoks> bddebian: don't use debian's packages
<bddebian> ivoks: I'm not I was just trying to get ours to build and it doesn't either :-)
<ivoks> bddebian: use gcc-3.3
<bddebian> Why?
<ivoks> it doesn't compile with 3.4 from my exp.
<spayne> yo bddebian
<bddebian> Heya spayne
<ivoks> bddebian: i'm dropping openmosix this year
<ivoks> bddebian: transiting to openssi
<bddebian> ivoks: I know very little about it, I'm just trying to fix broken stuff :-)
<ivoks> bddebian: don't
<ivoks> bddebian: not in sarge
<ivoks> bddebian: it's too much broken
<ivoks> bddebian: i spent few weeks trying to get debians packages to work
<ivoks> bddebian: never succeeded.. upstream worked after 2 hours
<bddebian> ivoks: So upload it :-)
<ivoks> bddebian: no, i said... i give up on openmosix
<bddebian> OH hehe
<ivoks> bddebian: that project has to slow development
<ivoks> bddebian: i'm transiting to openssi
<bddebian> Does openssi provide Motif apis?
<ivoks> motif apis?
<ivoks> what does motif has to do with cluster? :)
<bddebian> Whoops, never mind, I'm confusing myself at this point ;-P
<bddebian> I was lookint at something else :-)
<ivoks> yay
<ivoks> !!!
<ivoks> we got green light for EU! :)
<spayne> EU?
<ivoks> european union
<ivoks> god bless austria! :)
<spayne> ivoks: in turkey?
<ivoks> spayne: croatia
<dholbach> hi
<bddebian> Daniel!!!
<dholbach> hey barry! :)
<bddebian> dholbach: Can you check out Malone 2344 for me?
<dholbach> in a minute, yes
<bddebian> Coolio, thx
<spayne> anyone know if resapplet is in universe yet?
<dholbach> sudo apt-get update; apt-cache show resapplet   should know
<dholbach> or http://packages.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> bddebian: looks good to me, but i'm not necessarily an authority
<bddebian> spayne: apt-cache madison resapplet :-)
<bddebian> dholbach: Well WTF?? ;-)
<spayne> madison?
<bddebian> Yep
<dholbach> does anyone know how to do a '' on the keyboard?
<dholbach> (with a compose key maybe)?
<jamessan|work> I usually just use Vim and then highlight/middle-click paste it to wherever I need it
<jamessan|work> never bothered figuring out how to do it with the keyboard
<dholbach> yeah, i pasted it too, but now i manage to do all the other crazy french letters, i'd like to know how to reproduce it on my own ;)
<dholbach>    ... :)
<siretart> hey dholbach!
<dholbach> hey siretart
<siretart> crimsun: around?
<dholbach> so who reviews deskbar-applet? :-p
<siretart> does anyone happen to know why crimsun uploaded wpasupplicant?
<dholbach> siretart: sorry, no idea - does the changelog entry say anything?
<siretart> dholbach: it says "new upstream version". thats all
<dholbach> hrm
<siretart> so he updated breezy to 0.4.5, but I wanted to know why.
<dholbach> siretart: does ./NEWS say anything interesting?
<siretart> ther is no NEWS ;)
<siretart> I assume he had some reason to upgrade to 0.4.5
<dholbach> yeah, crimsun surely had
<siretart> well, the new version 'works' for me :)
<dholbach> :)
<ivoks> want to see a nice picture of my dog? :)
<dholbach> yeah
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/luna.jpg [3MB] 
<dholbach> WOAH
<dholbach> do you want us to count all the spots on the dog? ;)
<Nafallo> lol
<ivoks> :))
<spayne> dholbach: any packaging things i could do?
<ivoks> use the picture resize on your firefox :)
<dholbach> spayne: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: dude! you're dog is scary!
<Nafallo> all black and white except the eyes...
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks> gimp did that :)
<Nafallo> :-P
<spayne> this month, i have used 2,032.8 MBytes bandwidth :)
<Nafallo> ehm
<dholbach> ivoks: a nice dog you have :)
<Nafallo> 2G?
<ivoks> dholbach: thanks :)
<spayne> in three days
<\sh> re
<\sh> hmm....thats nothing *g*
<Nafallo> ah, THIS month :-)
<ivoks> :)
<Nafallo> who else have an up-to-date breezy amd64 with the gnomefoot still on the toppanel?
<Nafallo> or on the menubar even...
<spayne> Nafallo: delete /usr/share/icons/hicolor/icon.cache
<spayne> and restart X
<spayne> jdub told me :)
<siretart> arg. I don't have the gnomefoot anymore, that is
<Nafallo> aha
<Nafallo> thanx spayne
<Nafallo> that's icon-theme.cache, right?
<spayne> yeh
<spayne> brb
<Nafallo> how nice...
<Nafallo> the foot is gone :-P
<zyga> hello motus
<zyga> I'd like to upgrade a package in motu to learn a thing or two
<zyga> any developers willing to help me around
<zyga> I want to upgrade alexandria from 0.5.1 to 0.6.1
<zyga> I have my key and REVU is all open for me :)
<zyga> anyone :) ?
<dholbach> zyga: sure, go ahead... it's just that we're WAY past upstream version freeze - new version require a good justification
<dholbach> but nice if you're working on something that will make the world a better place
<zyga> dholbach: I want to learn a thing or two
<dholbach> yeah
<zyga> dholbach: and maybe put my package of gnu gadu at the same time
<dholbach> then go ahead, try it :)
<zyga> right now I've just pulled original source
<zyga> and debianized 0.5.1
<zyga> I'll play with debian/* and see what I can do
<dholbach> super
<zyga> dholbach: I should rename original source to *.orig.tar.gz
<zyga> right?
<dholbach> yes
<zyga> original filename is: alexandria-0.6.1.tar.gz so I guess that makes (read carefully)  alexandria_0.6.1.orig.tar.gz
<zyga> I don't need .dsc or .changes.gz from 0.5.1 anymore since .dsc is auto generated and I've applied the changes I want - right?
<zyga> I can write a changelog entry in debian/changelog (manually) to indicate new upstream version
<zyga> for breezy, low urgency
<zyga> if anything is not correct feel free to stop me :)
<zyga> I have a handy macro for vim that makes the changelog info line with my mail and date
<zyga> dholbach: so far so good?
<\sh> zyga: dch ?
<dholbach> \sh: you may want to use debian/watch and uupdate
<zyga> \sh: ??
<zyga> dholbach: I don't know anything about debian/watch but there is one already
<dholbach> but i'm currently working on some other crack, so i hope that somebody in this place will help you out
<dholbach> cool
<\sh> zyga: export DEBNAME="<your name>" ; export DEBMAIL="<your email>"
<zyga> it seems to point to some location
<\sh> zyga: and then dch -i e.g. and you'll get your $EDITOR call including well formatted debian changelog ;)
<zyga> \sh: I've got EMAIL set, and name seems to get sensible default
<zyga> aaah :)
<zyga> neet
<zyga> dch checks for syntax errors, right?
<\sh> dholbach: I want to use what? debian/watch and uupdate?
<\sh> zyga: yeah as well
<dholbach> \sh: sorry, i meant zyga
<zyga> what does debian/watch do?
<\sh> and adds new entries...(dch -a)
<zyga> \sh: cool, thanks - a new thing already :)
<dholbach> sorry, \sh, zyga - i'm cracking on something else... i'm a bit confused
<\sh> it checks upstream sources...you enter a download url with some magic regexp and it checks if there is a new upstream version ;)
<\sh> dholbach: hehe :)
<\sh> dholbach: /me cracks right now on problems with the .de community
<zyga> \sh: nice, how to use it? how to check for new upstream version?
* zyga likes debian more and more every day :)
<\sh> uuscan and uupdate
<zyga> \sh: which package provides them/
<jamessan|work> zyga: devscripts
<zyga> jamessan|work: hmm uuscan is not among them
<zyga> ah
<zyga> uscan
<zyga> sigle 'u'
<zyga> single
<zyga> thanks
<bddebian> dholbach: Hey, according to the changelog you were the last one to upload xfonts-terminus..
<dholbach> bddebian: is that so?
<zyga> cool :-)
<dholbach> it had a problem with build-depends, right?
<zyga> hmm okay I hit a wall now
<zyga> does anyone here speak ruby? :)
<zyga> /usr/lib/ruby/1.8/date/format.rb:598: [BUG]  unknown node type 0
<zyga> ruby 1.8.3 (2005-06-23) [i486-linux] 
<bddebian> dholbach: Aye :-)
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> ok...going to bed...I'm tired after the afternoon with my son :)
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> \sh: wait :)
* \sh doesn't speak ruby
<zyga> okay :)
<\sh> this is one language which I missed in my collection
<\sh> ok...cu tomorrow morning latest against 7 UTC :)
<ryu> hi
<dholbach> hi ryu
<bddebian> dholbach: See, you don't love me either.. ;-P
<dholbach> bddebian: what did i do wrong THIS TIME?
<zyga> does anyone know who handles ruby here?
<bddebian> dholbach: You won't upload my xfonts-terminus :-)
<zyga> our ruby is probably broken
<dholbach> bddebian: did you ask for it anywhere?
<bddebian> dholbach: I am kidding btw :-)
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> where is the debdiff?
<bddebian> dholbach: Posted on that bug
<dholbach> ah alright
<dholbach> it works for you?
<dholbach> you can use that font somewhere?
<bddebian> Of course :-)
<dholbach> rocking
<dholbach> will get it done
<spayne> slomo: ping
<zyga> okay
<zyga> debian has ruby 1.8.3-1 in unstable
<zyga> is it possible to sync that? :)
<siretart> wh0ps
<siretart> snes9x ftbfs on x86!
<siretart> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/snes9x/1.42-2ubuntu2/
<zyga> who can sync packages from debian?
<siretart> we can request it from elmo
<siretart> I'm not familiar with ruby, why do we need that?
<zyga> siretart: I just want to confirm that it 1) fixes a bug 2) fixes security issues
<zyga> siretart: it's already there, eg universe
<bddebian> zyga: So pull it from Debian, build it and see if it fixes your problem :)
<siretart> zyga: oh. in that case, we should sync that version
<zyga> siretart: I decided to upgrade alexandria which is a ruby app to the latest version
<zyga> bddebian: I'm doing that right now :D
<zyga> siretart: but our ruby which is a strange mix of 1.8.2-9 and 1.8.3 is broken
<zyga> ruby people told me to upgrade and see (it works for them)
<siretart> zyga: hm. I don't know about ruby. I always hear it is a mess both in debian as in ubuntu..
<zyga> siretart: I don't know much about it either but a friend of mine would like to use both ubuntu and alexandria so I wanted to help :)
<zyga> hmm ruby sure builds in a really strange way
<siretart> zyga: great! :)
<zyga> it seems like it's displaying brainfuck programs for the programer to keep him busy...
* zyga installs a bunch of ruby stuff
<zyga> btw: is there any tutorial about chroot testing environment?
<zyga> testing ruby is okay but testing a glibc could suck a bit
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> zyga: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PBuilderHowto
<zyga> bddebian: this page does not exist ;] 
<bddebian> It should tell you a match.  It's something like that
<zyga> Pbui....
<zyga> non capital 'p'
<zyga> sss... 'b'
<siretart> hmm. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=322455 has a clue about snes9x
<siretart> better to get a installable package quick..
<zyga> heh
<zyga> siretart: okay I need to debianize a ruby-zoom package now
<zyga> :-)
<zyga> easy upgrades, yeah ;] 
<zyga> I wonder if this will all work
<zyga> ruby upgrade
<zyga> new package
<zyga> and new version of alexandria
<zyga> should new package follow debian way and create a bugreport that says that package is missing?
<siretart> no, we don't require/want that for now
<zyga> siretart: should the package be named ruby-zoom0 or ruby-zoom1
<zyga> it's a library
<siretart> puh
<zyga> I'm reading the devel list, someone is already trying to build a package for breezy
<siretart> zyga: whats bad about ruby-zoom?
<zyga> siretart: nothing but dh_make created ruby-zoom1
<siretart> hm
<zyga> siretart: maybe libruby-zoom
<zyga> or libzoom-ruby
<siretart> zyga: isn't there somewhere a ruby packaging policy?
<zyga> siretart: there is? :)
<siretart> there should be one
<siretart> http://pkg-ruby.alioth.debian.org/ruby-policy.html/index.html
<zyga> checking
<zyga> okay
<zyga> libzoom-rubyX.Y
<zyga> hello orgra
<ajmitch> morning all
<zyga> could anyone help me a bit?
<zyga> I just ran dh_make and now I'm cleaning up debian/control
<zyga> what is that -BROKEN stuff?
<bddebian> ajmitch!!!!!!!!!!!
<ajmitch> bddebian: what?!?
<bddebian> Hi
<bddebian> :-)
<ajmitch> meh
<ajmitch> hello
<zyga> what should I do when source package does not follow debian naming policy/
* bddebian still hasn't broken 800 :'-(
* ajmitch still hasn't broken 100 bugs closed :P
<zyga> I've got .orig.tar.gz
<ajmitch> I should get past 1000 karma today though
<bddebian> ajmitch: Heh
<ajmitch> 977 at the moment, and closed at least 2 bugs since then
<zyga> come on you package masters :-)
<zyga> help me out
<ajmitch> zyga: you rename :P
* ajmitch will bbiab, got to go to work
<zyga> ajmitch: rename the orig.tar.gz?
<zyga> and the directory it extracts?
* zyga reads the maintainers guide to the universe 
<zyga> (heh)
<Nafallo> w00t!
<Nafallo> where is that document? :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: I hate you ;-P
<zyga> Nafallo: maint-guide
<Nafallo> that's debians. not MOTUs :-)
<zyga> hehe
<zyga> :
<zyga> :)
<sebest> hi masters
<ajmitch> bddebian: I know you do
<sebest> hi had a question for you, about package like win32codecs, i know it's not legal to distribute them, but would it be legal to use a solution like the one for mssttcorefonts ?
<ajmitch> that is very dubious
<sebest> ajmitch why?
<ajmitch> since at least msttcorefonts are distributable in their original form
<ajmitch> win32codecs is straight copyright violation
<ajmitch> ripping dlls off a windows box :)
<sebest> but it's legal to distribute the script?
<ajmitch> that's only a 'maybe'
<ryu> hi
<zyga> sebest: what would such a script do?
<zyga> sebest: ask the user to enter a legit copy of windows installation cd?
<sebest> zyga: download win32codecs and install it
<zyga> sebest: from where?
* zyga thought that they are licensed to windows users only
<sebest> from where it's currenttly hosted
<sebest> i remenber a similar solution exist for decss
<zyga> that would still be illegal IMHO
<ajmitch> zyga: that's what I think
<zyga> similar to .torrrent trackers
<zyga> might vary from country/state/region to another
<sebest> trackers are legal, no???
<ajmitch> writing a script wose sole purpose is to violate copyright isn't really too hot
<zyga> sebest: no
<zyga> sebest: some trackers are illegal in the US for example AFARI
<zyga> s/AFARI/AFAIR/
<sebest> what's wrong with having a torrent tracker??
<zyga> very fuzzy issue ;-)
<zyga> sebest: google for it, dcma, copryright and crap like that
<sebest> we use one at our office to distribute our one content
<zyga> generic tracker is okay but specific might be illegal in some random place on the northen hemisphere near canada ;] 
<Nafallo> your own it not someone else :-)
<sebest> it's like saying that driving a car is illegal because you could kill someone :)
<ajmitch> sebest: that's different from distributing content that you don't have copyright to
<zyga> sebest: don't try to make me believe you - ask a lawyer
<sebest> as you said it depends upon country..
<siretart> thats the biggest problem with this matter: nobody knows for sure whats right, and lawyers are expensive :(
<zyga> sebest: and as far as law is concerned - it might be illegal in some random place to drive a car for example if your are of specific gender
<sebest> and for sure , too comply with all country, it's impossible...
<zyga> no I'm not kidding
<ajmitch> most countries would frown on what you're suggesting, sebest
<sebest> yes like pakistan
<sebest> frown?
<sebest> what does it mean?
<zyga> so I'd say win32codecs that everyone who wants to view movies probably has anyway is illegal ;-)
<ajmitch> zyga: most likely
<zyga>   To repress or repel by expressing displeasure or disapproval;
<zyga>    to rebuke with a look; as, frown the impudent fellow into
<zyga>    silence.
<siretart> hey, even here on amd64 I can watch movies. w32codecs are really overrated
<sebest> www.koreus.com :)
<Nafallo> siretart++
<zyga> siretart: yes and probably they are not used many times but then again there is that movie your better half wants to see
<zyga> ;-)
<zyga> I'm all for open formats you know :)
<siretart> then I still have a 32bit chroot *g*
* zyga still has 32bit laptop
<zyga> ;-)
<zyga> hehe
<siretart> btw, openwrt rocks!
<siretart> ;)
<zyga> offtopic, the cheapes laptops around here come with turion (64bit) cpus and with some linux distro pre-installed :-D
<zyga> s/cheapes/cheapest/
<Nafallo> if the better half would be better she would not use w32codecs. so I guess you meant your worse half :-).
<zyga> Nafallo: my better half did not hear that - you have been spared, you are likely to be eaten by a grue
<Nafallo> siretart: baah. you to :-P.
<Nafallo> hehe
<zyga> OTOH: I've got an adom-manager that can install/remove adom at will - I hope to debianize it one day
<zyga> it's 100% legal :)
* zyga gets back to maint-guide
<zyga> awww
<zyga> from maint-guide: Once again, as a new maintainer you are discouraged from creating complicated packages, e.g., [snip]  library packages, [snip] 
<zyga> booo
* zyga needs a library package
<siretart> zyga: there are many pitfalls one can trap into with library packages
<siretart> zyga: but I think ruby library package are less complicated than e.g. C++ libraries
<zyga> siretart: it's a c+ruby package
<zyga> awww, damn... the library depends on another library
<zyga> I thought that libyaz is the thing I need but it seems that I really need libyaz-ruby
<zyga> this will be a long long ride
<siretart> zyga: thats the point you quoted from the maint-guide
<siretart> zyga: but you are surely welcome to have some fun trying it nevertheless ;)
<zyga> siretart: I don't want to bail out yet :)
* Kyral collapses with a THUD
<siretart> zyga: thats the spirit MOTUs are made from :)
* zyga fetches hot tea to ease his painfull throat
<Kyral> Thats done. Time to get back to packaging!
<Kyral> I should be able to bang out this Glaxium package before 6
<Kyral> is "games" a valid section?
<zyga> siretart: ha, the second library already exists :)
<zyga> siretart: just under a different name
<zyga> siretart: hmm can you fix stuff in universe?
<ajmitch> zyga: that's what the MOTUs do ;)
<zyga> siretart: ruby-dev depends on ruby1.6-dev while the current stable version is ruby1.8-dev
<zyga> 1.6 is not around anymore even
<ajmitch> you must have an old ruby-dev installed
<zyga> ajmitch: no
<zyga> hmm wait
<ajmitch> the package doesn't exist in breezy
<zyga> ajmitch: that's right
<zyga> Package ruby-dev is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<zyga> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
<zyga> is only available from another source
<zyga> However the following packages replace it:
<zyga>   ruby1.6-dev
<zyga> E: Package ruby-dev has no installation candidate
<Kyral> hmm
<zyga> doesn't that look bad?
<Kyral> its looking for the command distclean
<Kyral> but I don't see it in the makefile
<zyga> Kyral: ignore it or add according to taste
<ajmitch> zyga: not really
<Kyral> or shorten it to clean
<zyga> Kyral: distclean is a slightly stronger clean that might require extra stuff to rebuild
* Kyral shrugs
<zyga> Kyral: no - it's different from clean
<zyga> for example you might need to have yacc/flex to build something after dist-clean
<Kyral> The makefile.in specifies clean, not distclean
<zyga> Kyral: that's autocrap makefile.in?
<Kyral> Hey I'm not knocking it if it makes my life easier
<zyga> ajmitch: hmm what's the point of ruby-dev then/
<Kyral> no MS jokes
<slomo> spayne: pong
<spayne> slomo: any news on ipod-sharp?
<Kyral> does dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot even make a deb?
<bigcx2> hey everyone
<bddebian> Kyral: No
<slomo> spayne: wait a moment... ;)
<bddebian> Hello bigcx2
<bigcx2> where is the gpg key page on launchpad where i can upload my key
<bigcx2> ?
<ajmitch> zyga: ruby-dev does not exist
<bigcx2> Kyral: the -S makes source only
<zyga> ajmitch: but ruby does exist
<ajmitch> zyga: eys
<zyga> and it depends on ruby1.8
<slomo> spayne: no new banshee upstream... so...
<slomo> spayne: we have to wait :(
<zyga> isn't that consistency to have -dev depend on 1.8-dev?
<ajmitch> zyga: possibly
<bigcx2> this is the step i'm trying to do off of the wiki:
<bigcx2> Visit the GPG Keys page once logged into launchpad. Paste your key fingerprint into the textbox:
<bigcx2> but it doesn't have a link to that page and i can't find it
<zyga> bigcx2: login to your launchpad page
<slomo> doko: i don't know if it's good enough... but swt-gtk ftbfs for amd64 so i looked for a fix
<ajmitch> bigcx2: uploaded zope-ldap with a few more changes - it was chmj's last 'fix' that gave me the dh_installzope error
<zyga> bigcx2: click on your name in the upper right corner
<bigcx2> ahhh
<bigcx2> thanks zyga
<zyga> bigcx2: click 'edit gpg keys' in the menu on the right side
<bigcx2> ajmitch: cool does that mean i get more karma points ;-P
<dholbach> brb
<ajmitch> bigcx2: sadly no :)
<slomo> spayne: why do you ask?
<bigcx2> booo
<bigcx2> lol
<spayne> slomo: dopi
<ajmitch> bigcx2: and I had to drop half your patch :)
<slomo> spayne: did it ship it's own entagged now?
<bigcx2> as long as it works
<ajmitch> only the .dzproduct files remained
<spayne> slomo: no
<bigcx2> ah
<bigcx2> brb
<slomo> spayne: so what? ;)
<spayne> slomo: it needs a newer ipod-sharp
<slomo> spayne: yes... and needs entagged which we don't want in universe until it matured
<Kyral> STAB!
<Kyral> I thought this would be easy but this thing refused to install into the debian dir
<slomo> spayne: did you already package everything?
<spayne> no :)
<ajmitch> wb dholbach
<dholbach> thanks ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> how are you? :)
* ajmitch yells at every apart from dholbach to fill in MOTUReportDraft
<dholbach> oh yes
<dholbach> the motu report
* dholbach only thought about it today
<Kyral> Why can't I catch something EASY to package..
<dholbach> didn't write a line
<ajmitch> dholbach: I've added 1 whole line
<slomo> Kyral: what do you want to package?
<Kyral> that Glaxium, btu I know nothing about AutoConf :P
<Kyral> it won't behave!
* bddebian kicks ajmitch :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: gee thanks
<ajmitch> you're great to be around, really
<bddebian> :-)
* bddebian hugs ajmitch
<Kyral> With my own thing it was a streightforward makefile
<Kyral> but how do I get AutoConf and AutoMake to behave
<slomo> Kyral: hmm... does upstream ship configure, etc...? or is autofoo to be called in rules?
<Kyral> its no DebPack
<Kyral> its a sourceball
<slomo> yes... but does it have a configure?
<Kyral> yah
<slomo> ok, where's the problem?
<Kyral> Yanno how its NOT supposed to build into the system when you do a dpkg-buildpackage?
<Kyral> ie, stay confined to the working dir?
<bddebian> Gotta head home, later gang
<slomo> Kyral: make PREFIX=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr install
<slomo> or something similar
<slomo> (if i understood your problem)
<Kyral> where do I put that?
<slomo> do you use cdbs?
<Kyral> no
<slomo> then you have a make install call somewhere in debian/rules
<slomo> how does it look like?
<Kyral> I dunno I wiped it in fustration
<Kyral> and I am hungry
<Kyral> Long day
<slomo> hmm
<Kyral> Maybe someone can show me how to use CDBS after dinner
<slomo> Kyral: when it uses autofoo just read the cdbs docs... there's a good example
<Kyral> ty. I'm new at this (Self Proclaimed MOTU In Training)
<slomo> ok, when you're fast enought with eating i'll help you... otherwise i'm already sleeping :P
<Nafallo> slomo: do you know how many users \sh's server can handle? I tell everyone using jabber.org to register there for a more reliable service ;-)
<slomo> Nafallo: oh no... you will kill the icq transport ;)
<Nafallo> hehehe
<siretart> my whole family is now on sh's server ;)
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> half of #ubuntu.se to :-P
<slomo> omg
<Nafallo> and all MOTUs? ;-)
<ajmitch> not me ;)
<siretart> hehe
<Nafallo> ajmitch: that's why I only see you as a questionmark then :-P
<slomo> someone want to tell me which language this is? "datatype coord = pair of (int*int);"
<siretart> gn8 folks!
<slomo> maybe sml?
<Nafallo> anyway. \sh might have to build a cluster some day. but who cares? ;-)
<slomo> gn8 siretart
<dholbach> bye siretart
<Nafallo> gnight siretart :-)
<slomo> hm, should be sml... at least mosml accepts it...
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-09
<zyga> siretart: let's convince canonical to provide jabber.ubuntu.com
<tseng> sh provides jabberme.org
<tseng> .net rather
<slomo> tseng: .net, .org and .de afaik ;)
<Nafallo> nafallo@ubuntu.com as JID would be lovely :-)
<slomo> hehe... yes :)
<Nafallo> and for SIP
<Nafallo> and we already got e-mail ;-)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> I wonder if you could had a "jabber-proxy" :-P
<Nafallo> nafallo@ubuntu.com -> linux-server.org ;-)
<ryu> night
<Seveas> anyone awake?
<dholbach> good night pals, i'm off to bed
<zyga> Seveas: me
<Seveas> zyga, do you know how to close bugs on malone?
<zyga> Seveas: hmm, mark them as closed..?
<zyga> Seveas: I never did actually
<zyga> ha
* zyga packaged libzoom-ruby1.8 from scratch
* zyga packaged alexandria 0.6.1 that depends on libzoom-ruby1.8 :)
<Seveas> zyga, the problem is that I can't find an option to mark it as closed :)
<zyga> Seveas: I don't know, sorry :)
<Seveas> np
<Seveas> Then I just don't close the bug :)
<bddebian> Seveas: You actually have to click on the bug description
<zyga> okay
<zyga> I've got this working :)
<zyga> I'm tired
<zyga> I hope it's not too late to upload it tomorrow
<zyga> :)
<zyga> (since it's way too late already)
<Seveas> bddebian, right, intuitive...:)
<bddebian> Seveas: No, not really.  Apparently he was asked to remove the Edit button???
* ajmitch returns
<ajmitch> bddebian: fixed the universe yet?
<Seveas> my first malone edit: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/debfoster/+bug/2824
<Seveas> I'm so proud ;)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Of course ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: oh good, we can all stop working then :)
* ajmitch will tell ogra & dholbach that univerese is perfect for release
<bddebian> Shiite
<bddebian> ajmitch: If I had some HELP it might be.. ;-P
<Seveas> hey, I'm starting to help
<Seveas> weeded through bugzilla today
<Seveas> trying malone tomorrow
<Nafallo> bddebian: ehm. now you're smoking crack ;-). there is only you, Seveas and dholbach :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: sure, and I'm doing nothing, I know
<ajmitch> wb ogra ;)
* ajmitch wonders if he's actually here, or finally sleeping
<Nafallo> hopefully the last one :-P
<ajmitch> depends on how much work he has to do :)
<ajmitch> nope, he's still awake
<ajmitch> ogra: go to bed :P
<Nafallo> ogra: ey! you can't just pop in @ 2 without being awake and here to that time :-P.
<ogra> ajmitch, 12942 solved :-D
<ogra> my nightmare bug :)
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> now sleep
<Nafallo> lol
<ajmitch> ogra: we want you to be sane for UBZ, please :)
<Nafallo> dream nightmare about bugs, wake up, fix them, go to sleep :-P
<Nafallo> wow
<bddebian> Nafallo: How'd you know I was smoking crack :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: You know we love you honey
<ajmitch> bddebian: no you don't
<ajmitch> all I get here is abuse :P
<bddebian> Sure I do :-)
<bddebian> Just for the record, gnat-gps SUCKS :-)
<crimsun> siretart: 0.4.5 fixes an EAP issue I have on my campus network
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> hi there bddebian
<zyga> good night everyone :)
<tritium> good night, zyga
<bddebian> Gnight zyga
<bmonty> good evening everyone
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<bddebian> bmonty: Hey, what's your handle on Malone?
<bmonty> bmontgom
<ajmitch> bddebian: seeing how much you're whipping him in karma?
<bmonty> probably by a lot
<ajmitch> probably
<ajmitch> bddebian is the MOTU legend
* ajmitch starts up the fan club
<bddebian> ajmitch: No I was just curious since he is one of the few of us actually fixing bugs ;-P
* bddebian runs and hides
<bmonty> hey, how do I change my picture on the Malone page?
<bddebian> picture??
<ajmitch> hackergotchi
<ajmitch> launchpad permissions issue
<ajmitch> can't do it yet, afaik
<bmonty> ok, I look nothing like the cartoon guy there now
<bmonty> my hair is much shorter
<bmonty> and I have eyes
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> bmonty: Looks like you've been busy though :-)
* ajmitch needs more karma!
<bmonty> I found some low hanging fruit :)
<ajmitch> I need some of that
<bddebian> There's always pornview ;-P
<bmonty> check out #1709, I put the new version of taglib up on REVU, but version freeze would prevent this from being in breezy, correct?
<saintsjd> any GIS software users out there?
<saintsjd> sorry, gaim crashed... Any GIS software users out there?
<dholbach> morning everybody
<\sh> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey \sh :)
<jsgotangco> hi dholbach
<tritium> hi dholbach
<dholbach> morning jerome, michael :)
<ajmitch_1> hi dholbach
<dholbach> morning andrew
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: my dsl is almost as flaky as yours tonight :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> mine is ok today
<\sh> guys....please mark all "eric3" bugs as invalid, cause the package should be morgued...the new package is named only "eric" and this is working
<crimsun> k
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> \sh: I finally passed 1000 karma today ;)
<\sh> wow
* ajmitch closes another as fixed
<Yagisan> G'day MOTU's - dumb question time. Where do I stick .desktop files so they only appear in my menu ?
<Yagisan> I'm trying to automate my pbuilder setups - and I don't want other users asking me why it is on their menus
<crimsun> "User-specific desktop entry files are located in $HOME/.local/share/applications/"
<Yagisan> crimsun: thanks crimsum. It's been a long day today
<siretart> morning
<crimsun> 'morning
<crimsun> siretart: ponged you earlier RE: wpasupplicant
<siretart> crimsun: ah, okay. I was a bit surprised, because the changelog was a bit sparse..
<crimsun> yeah, I didn't put as much as I normally do
<siretart> seems still to work for me (wpasupplicant)
<siretart> it's okay, no problem
<crimsun> I need to handle the case in .postinst for people who use the example wpa_supplicant.conf
<crimsun> (not the new default one that Debian provides)
<crimsun> since that example wpa_supplicant.conf has 3 lines related to loading the Open SmartCard stuff that will cause wpasupplicant to bomb since those libs don't exist (libopensc1 isn't installed)
<crimsun> won't affect new installations of wpasupplicant; they get the new Debian default automatically
<siretart> the new default config for wpasupplicant seems to me way more sane, indeed
<siretart> crimsun: I didn't check yet, when installing wpasupplicant, is it enabled by default or do I still have to enable it in /etc/default/wpasupplicant?
<Treenaks> crimsun: I want my smartcard slot to work!
<Treenaks> crimsun: but it's TI :(
<crimsun> siretart: you still have to edit /etc/default/wpasupplicant
<crimsun> I tend to agree; we don't want to disturb the current association state on install
<siretart> thats great!
<crimsun> Treenaks: agreed
<siretart> Treenaks: you still can enable it, it is 'just' not in the default config file, but you need to look it up in /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/examples/*
<Treenaks> siretart: sure, but my card reader is not supported
<siretart> thats another problem ;)
<Treenaks> siretart: because TI is boneheaded about its specs
<siretart> uuuh. today technical board meeting?
<dholbach> slomo_: already awake?
<dholbach> slomo_: any idea on ubuntu bug #16972?
<slomo_> dholbach: hi... now i'm awake ;)
<dholbach> excellent
<dholbach> re
<zyga> hey
<ajmitch> hi
<zyga> who can sync packages from unstable?
<zyga> elmo?
<ajmitch> yes, but a MOTU shoudl ask
<zyga> I ask for someone to ask to sync ruby
<zyga> ruby 1.8.3-1 contains security and important bug fix
<ajmitch> that's something that would be good to get a fair bit of testing before sync
<ajmitch> dholbach: your opinion?
<ajmitch> dholbach: I'm about to break UVF again for avahi, btw
<zyga> I'm green so I will follow your opinion
<zyga> I repackaged alexandria 0.6.1 yesterday
<zyga> and it crashes with our ruby (internal ruby error)
<zyga> on the unstable version it works okay
<zyga> on the other hand
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yep, ross said 0.5.2 went in
<Lathiat> ajmitch: i couldnt see it on ftp.debian.org about an hour ago tho
<zyga> I created a libzoom-ruby package and I'd love to get it in REVU
<ajmitch> Lathiat: incoming
<zyga> could anyone suggest how (dput/dwhatever?)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: I know that it went in :P
<Lathiat> ajmitch: you can sync from incoming?
<ajmitch> and I've already built & tested on breezy
<ajmitch> elmo can
<dholbach> zyga: should be on http://wiki.ubnutu.co,/
<Lathiat> ok
<Lathiat> let me do a test first
<Lathiat> can you throw me the url?
<ajmitch> bah
<dholbach> zyga: should be on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<ajmitch> Lathiat: incoming.debian.org
<zyga> dholbach: okay, I'll bug you with questions should the need arise :)
<dholbach> zyga: rather ask the channel
<Lathiat> ajmitch: oh you tested it already?
<dholbach> :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: what did you try?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: I've built & installed, anyway
<zyga> dholbach: certainly
<ajmitch> Lathiat: have had a friend over, so haven't ran/built apps
<Lathiat> ajmitch: just make sure avahi-discover works
<Lathiat> ajmitch: if that works shouldnt be a problem
<Lathiat> should probably check avahi-browse too
<Lathiat> (c vs python)
* ajmitch starts avahi-discover
<ajmitch> a-d works
<ajmitch> as does a-b
<dholbach> it'd be nice, if avahi and ruby both got testing... updating ruby seems a bit awkward to me - i mean, can we make sure that all ruby crack just works after that? (or are those serious fixes we need to get in?)
<Lathiat> i can test ruby stuff
* Lathiat has taken quite a liking to it
<ajmitch> dholbach: lathiat is upstream for avahi, I think we know what's happening there :)
<dholbach> i see :)
<Lathiat> yeh 0.5.2 is just a minor bugfix release
<ajmitch> dholbach: plus very little rdepends on avahi at the moment
<Lathiat> altho, 0.5 hasn't gone in yet
<Lathiat> but yeh
<Lathiat> its working fine
<dholbach> nevertheless... testing :))
<ajmitch> I've had 0.5 here with no issues
<ajmitch> for at least a week
<Lathiat> ditto
<Lathiat> hell it works better than svn ;p
<ajmitch> so I'm confident that 0.5.2 can go int
<Lathiat> haha
<ajmitch> s/int/in/
<ajmitch> and we can press sebest for the service-discovery-applet so slomo or one of us can update it & upload
<Lathiat> it already is uploaded
<slomo> ajmitch: context please ;)
<Lathiat> does it need fixes?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: I mean 0.2
<Lathiat> oh, theres a 0.2?
<ajmitch> when he releases that
<Lathiat> i dont know that hes made any changes
<Lathiat> i'll ask
<ajmitch> that's why I say we shoudl press sebest :)
<ajmitch> he was asking about it yesterday
<Lathiat> ah
<slomo> Lathiat: he did many... he just needs to clean up his code before release ;)
<Lathiat> slomo: ah ok
<ajmitch> so get out your thumbscrews
<Lathiat> i was away last 3 days so i wasn't watching #avahi
<ajmitch> no excuse :)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: ok to ask elmo for sync?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yep
<slomo> Lathiat: want to annoy ross for getting 0.5.2 packages? ;) or even better 0.5.3 about which someone said something in #avahi yesterday ;)
<slomo> ajmitch: sync for what?
<Lathiat> slomo: 0.5.2 is already in incoming for debian
<slomo> oh perfect :)
<Lathiat> slomo: as for 0.5.3 well thats not there yet but i heard some c# stuff is bogus
<ajmitch> slomo: 0.5.2 is going to experimental, I'm asking for sync now
<slomo> i hope he has read my email before he uploaded it... i had an improvement
<Lathiat> slomo: about?
<slomo> ajmitch: so wait before you ask for a sync...
<slomo> libavahi-cil should be architecture all, not any
<Lathiat> thats fixed
<Lathiat> in 0.5.2
<ajmitch> slomo: already is
<Lathiat> err
<Lathiat> 0.5.1
<slomo> ok, fine :)
<ajmitch> slomo: we've checked & tested :)
<Lathiat> hrm, if mono wants a .so, how can i tell it where to find it, its in the current directory, LD_LIBRARY_PATH didnt make a difference
<slomo> Lathiat: it's in the same directory as the .exe?
<Lathiat> slomo: yes
<zyga> which standards version should I use
<slomo> Lathiat: ok... either LD_LIBRARY_PATH or use dllmappings
<slomo> zyga: 3.6.2
<ajmitch> zyga: 3.6.2
<zyga> ok
<Lathiat> hrm LD_LIBRARY_PATH didnt work
<ajmitch> Lathiat: sync requested
<Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/bleh.txt
<slomo> Lathiat: then try to workaround with dllmappings... you can specify a path there too
<slomo> Lathiat: yes, dllmapping... wait, i get docs for you ;)
<Lathiat> ok
<Lathiat> this sucks
<Lathiat> why cant it just find a .so with the same name in the current dir
<slomo> http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ch-mono.html#s7.2
<slomo> it's not the same name... it's just wx-c instead of libwx-c.so
<Lathiat> hrm
<slomo> <configuration><dllmap dll="wx-c" target="libwx-c.so"/></configuration> should do the trick
<Lathiat> i thought libw as stripped on linux
<Lathiat> and that goes in wx-c.dll.config ?
<slomo> depends... where do you use the p/invoke?
<Lathiat> im not, its this wx.NET library im trying to get working
* Lathiat looks
<slomo> Lathiat: ok, name it $dllname.dll.config
<slomo> and put it in the same directory
<Lathiat> so wx-c.dll.config right?
<slomo> yes
<Lathiat> and i think i just figured out why its not working
<Lathiat> missing libraries for the .so :)
<ajmitch> sigh :P
<zyga> zyga@falcon:~/my-alexandria-package$ lintian alexandria*.dsc
<zyga> whiprush: alexandria source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<zyga> whiprush: alexandria source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 0.6.1
<zyga> what is nmu?
<slomo> Lathiat: that could be another reason ;) but the dllmapping would be useful too
<slomo> zyga: non maintainer upload... nothing to worry about
<zyga> and the changelog version?
<Lathiat> ok
<slomo> zyga: ignore it too when it's really correct... but shouldn't it be something like 0.6.1ubuntu1?
<zyga> slomo: ah, right!
<zyga> heh, dch is neet - it renamed the directory :)
<slomo> but it tells you about that ;)
<zyga> yes :)
<zyga> I the changelog I replace unstable with breezy, is that okay?
<ajmitch> zyga: it's required
<zyga> good
<zyga> just as a side question
<zyga> my local ruby version synced from unstable should be renamed from 1.8.3-1 to 1.8.3ubuntu1
<zyga> right?
<ajmitch> why?
<ajmitch> if it's a straight sync it keeps the version number from sid
<zyga> okay
<slomo> zyga: 1.8.3-1ubuntu1... but why do you want to sync it?
<ajmitch> a sync being one we request from elmo
<slomo> hm... funny... i have 1.8.2-1 installed and it tells me it is 1.8.3
<zyga> slomo: because the version we have now is broken
<zyga> it has many patches ported from the next version but something is not okay
<zyga> alexandria for example crashes with internal errors
<zyga> (ruby internal errors)
<slomo> zyga: ok... so request a sync when it really works and solves the problems
<zyga> on 1.8.3-1 it works like a charm
<slomo> zyga: it's scary anway to have 1.8.2 installed and telling you it is 1.8.3 ;)
<ajmitch> slomo: you mean, ask a MOTU to request a sync :)
<slomo> oh yes, sure
<zyga> BTW: is there any point of building a module for 1.6 anymore?
<\sh> Lunch time
<ajmitch> not being a ruby person, I don't know how useful 1.6 is
<zyga> we still have 1.6 in breezy
<zyga> sync
<slomo> zyga: are there any modules built with 1.6?
<ajmitch> and not being a ruby person, I'm not the one to ask for a sync :)
<zyga> ha :)
<zyga> pretty
<Lathiat> 1.8 is current
<zyga> everything works fine
<zyga> okay so now I'll try to upload those packages
<zyga> first libzoom-ruby
<slomo> Lathiat: do you know more about ruby than me and ajmitch? so maybe you want to request the sync ;)
<zyga> done :)
<zyga> cool
<Lathiat> slomo: well im hardly an expert
<Lathiat> slomo: i've just been using it
<Lathiat> slomo: whats up with it?
<slomo> Lathiat: our version seems to be broken
<zyga> next alexandria
<Lathiat> slomo: ah, in what way?
<Lathiat> of which version
<slomo> oh
<slomo> bad luck
<Lathiat> 1.{6,7,9} ?
<slomo> it's in main
<Lathiat> it is?
<slomo> 1.8.2 with many patches from 1.8.3 ;) it even tells one it is 1.8.3...
<Lathiat> ah, 1.8 is
<zyga> both uploads done :)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: if you request a sync, you're responsible for fixing any breakage before release :)
<slomo> ajmitch: he has to talk to mdz before that about breaking uvf :P
<Lathiat> i don't plan to be responsible for that, because im hardly qualified to go fixing it
<Lathiat> maybe next release cycle :)
<ajmitch> slomo: is ruby in main? :)
<slomo> ajmitch: yes
<Lathiat> ruby1.8 is in main
<ajmitch> oh well then
<Lathiat> 1.8 isnt
<Lathiat> err
<Lathiat> 1.9
<Lathiat> but 1.8 is the most used version, and yeh
<ajmitch> we've got *much* less chance of getting a sync then :)
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> 1.9 is the devel version
<zyga> we need 1.8
<zyga> but a working 1.8
<Lathiat> well it seems to be working
<Lathiat> for the stuff im doign at least
<slomo> ajmitch: well... we currently have something 1.8.3-similar... and the sync would fix some breakages... maybe mdz allows a sync then
<ajmitch> Lathiat: mdz is very very wary of any UVF breakage at this late point
<zyga> hmm okay I don't know then
<ajmitch> slomo: we don't know if there might be some regressions
<zyga> our 1.8.2-9 (which tells it's 1.8.3) is broken for me
<Lathiat> ajmitch: im sure
<slomo> zyga: get the debdiff between both and upload it somewhere... maybe we can just backport the fixes or something...
<Lathiat> so the rails stuff and the gtk stuff seems to be working for me, i dont know anymore past that
<zyga> slomo: sure, one moment
<zyga> Lathiat: could you check my fresh alexandria package
<zyga> maybe I'm doing something wrong
<slomo> zyga: and how can one reproduce the crash?
<zyga> slomo: just run the program :)
<zyga> it doesn't run
<zyga> ruby internal gobs
<slomo> ok... ours in the archives? or is it only with yours?
<zyga> slomo: we have both ruby and alexandria
<zyga> slomo: but you neet to take a look at my alexandria, 0.6.1
<slomo> zyga: "Message: wrong number of arguments (1 for 2)"
<slomo> this one?
<zyga> slomo: no
<slomo> where is your 0.6.1?
<zyga> slomo: more like, invalid node type 0 or something like this
<zyga> slomo: it should appear in revu - unless I did something wrong
<Seveas> I've been fixing a simple bug (Malone #2820), what should I do with the resulting deb/changes/diff.gz to make it easy for you to use?
<zyga> I can put the source on the web if you like
<slomo> zyga: ok... i'll look at revu ;)
<slomo> Seveas: upload debdiff somewhere
<zyga> okay I'll get the debdiff for ruby
<Seveas> slomo, ok
<slomo> zyga: when did you upload it to revu?
<zyga> slomo: 2 minutes ago
<slomo> zyga: hehe ok... so let's wait 6 minutes :)
<zyga> :)
<zyga> just enough time to debdiff ruby1.8
* zyga did his first upload today ;] 
<Seveas> hmm, the debdiff shows nothing interesting...
<slomo> Seveas: ? then you didn't change anything ;)
<Seveas> I've merely changed the initscript in debian/tor.init
<slomo> Seveas: and that's visible in the debdiff?
<zyga> http://www.suxx.pl/ubuntu/ruby.debdiff
<Seveas> slomo, no :S
<zyga> awww
<zyga> that's 4.1MB
<ajmitch> Seveas: if it's not in the debdiff, then the change isn't done right :)
<slomo> zyga: uh... maybe ask in #ubuntu-devel about ruby and tell them your problem etc
<zyga> okay
<slomo> maybe there is a ruby guy
<Seveas> ajmitch, well, the file is changed, the package is built but debdiff shows nothing
<zyga> siretart: ping
<Seveas> ah right
<Seveas> nvm, got the error :)
<Seveas> slomo, and once I've uploaded the debdiff, I should do what?
<slomo> Seveas: show it some motu and ask him to upload it
<slomo> ajmitch: do you have some time to look at one of my packages and tell me if it would be ok for debian?
<ajmitch> slomo: I might be able to look :)
<ajmitch> slomo: you've seen how bad some debian packages are, so quality is no obstacle ;)
<slomo> ajmitch: it's wavpack... just tell me everything that is not good there except the version number ;)
<Seveas> slomo, ok, http://seveas.demon.nl/triage/tor.debdiff have a look ;)
<ajmitch> Seveas: you said it wasn't in the debdiff, but it's obviously right there?
<Seveas> yes, i found the error in my brain
<ajmitch> aha
<zyga> can anyone besides sireart check why my upload didn't appear on revu?
<slomo> Seveas: looks fine
<Seveas> slomo, cool, so you will upload?
<slomo> yes
<slomo> Seveas: uploaded... katie should talk to you at :35
<Seveas> nice thanks
<Seveas> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/tinyca/+bug/2800
<Seveas> debian has a newer version which corrects this serious bug
<Seveas> should I backport the fix (few lines) or ask for the new version to be included?
<Seveas> (just getting into this business, I hope you don't mind the heaps of questions)
<slomo> ask for sync
<Seveas> ok, who to ask?
<Seveas> elmo?
<slomo> yes... you are no MOTU so someone else has to ask... and i have to learn for an exam tomorrow now :/ sorry
<Seveas> ok, no prob, I'll bug another MOTU
<Seveas> ajmitch, still here?
<crimsun> which package from Sid?
<crimsun> tinyca?
<Seveas> yes
<ajmitch> crimsun: yes
<crimsun> ah.
<crimsun> hmm, no elmo.
<ajmitch> crimsun: email
<crimsun> yep, doing that.
<crimsun> thanks, Seveas.
<Seveas> np
<Mithrandir> are anybody working on packaging the deskbar-applet?
<slomo> Seveas: got mail from katie?
<slomo> Mithrandir: what's that?
<Mithrandir> slomo: http://raphael.slinckx.net/blog/index.php/2005-10-02/deskbar-applet-hotness
<Seveas> slomo, no, she seems not to like me
<Mithrandir> slomo: I was looking for a "yes" or "no", really; just trying to avoid clashes.
<slomo> Seveas: hmm... and on breezy changes there's also nothing
<slomo> Mithrandir: i can only give you a "don't know" ;)
<slomo> Mithrandir: but seems to be useful so package it :)
<slomo> ajmitch: and when wavpack is ok for you... do you also want to upload it for me after i changed version number und distribution?
<ajmitch> slomo: I haven't had a chance to check it yet :P
<crimsun> Seveas: CC'd you.
<slomo> ajmitch: no hurry :) i have to learn now anyway
<Seveas> slomo, doesn't show up at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html either
<slomo> Seveas: are you whitelisted for katie?
<Seveas> slomo, no, this was my first ever bugfix
<Seveas> (that I submitted here)
<slomo> Seveas: ask elmo to whitelist your email address :)
<Seveas> ah ok, I thought you would upload it under your name :)
<zyga> who can manage revu besides siretart
<Seveas> slomo, I assume that after this whitelisting has been done, I need to ping you again to retry the upload, right?
<slomo> Seveas: yes... as i don't know what went wrong ;) in that mail you didn't get it was written
<Seveas> ok
<Seveas> then I'll wait with a few other debdiffs I have until this is settled
<slomo> Seveas: you can just go on... your debdiff was alright :) it would have been a mistake on my side
<Seveas> grmbl, why does dpkg-buildpackage think a -0ubuntu1 version is a native debian package?
<\sh> zyga: whats up with revu?
<\sh> hmmmm....wesnoth 1.0
<Lathiat> ajmitch: dont suppose you know anythign about lca
<ajmitch> Lathiat: not terribly much, why?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh thats the problem :)
<zyga> \sh: hi
<ajmitch> heh
<Lathiat> ajmitch: theyve been very quiet and rather overdue on speakers
<ajmitch> not enough info getting out there?
<ajmitch> yeah
<zyga> \sh: I've uploaded two packages half an hour ago
<ajmitch> last I heard the CFP was extended
<Lathiat> havent even heard back on my submission let alone public announcement of speakers
<ajmitch> 23.9.2005
<zyga> \sh: and they're gone
<ajmitch> Due to the overwhelming number of paper submissions, we have had to push back the dates for notifying and announcing the successful authors. This has also had the unfortunate effect of pushing the Program and "Early Bird Registrations" back a few days. Apologies go out to anyone that has been inconvenienced by this delay. New dates can be found in our Dates Page
<Lathiat> and its been 2 weeks ince the supposed date
<Lathiat> hrm
<crimsun> Seveas: flood bots are back, should we set +r in #ubuntu?
<zyga> any insight/
<Lathiat> oh yeh, but still
<\sh> zyga: hmmm....your key is on revu?
<Seveas> crimsun, only if it becomes diruptive
<Seveas> banning bot hosts is useless btw
<crimsun> k.
<zyga> \sh: I don't know how to check but siretart added it himself AFAIK
<\sh> zyga:
<\sh> -rw-------  1 siretart revu  924 2005-10-04 05:56 alexandria_0.6.1ubuntu1_i386.changes
<crimsun> yeah, I'm about to remove all my bans and just set +r
<\sh> -rw-------  1 siretart revu 1258 2005-10-04 05:54 libzoom-ruby_0.2.1ubuntu1_i386.changes
<ajmitch> Lathiat: especially as early bird registrations are meant to open this week - but at what price?
<zyga> :-)
<zyga> \sh: cool
<zyga> \sh: so why are they not on the revu list?
<\sh> zyga: because they're rejected
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> why?
<\sh> alexdria == new package? why not 0.6.1-0ubuntu1?
<zyga> \sh: alexandria is an upgrade from 0.5.1
<slomo> zyga: so do -0ubuntu1
<zyga> okay
* zyga didn't knew hat
<\sh> and what about libzoom?
<zyga> that
<zyga> libzoom is a new package
<zyga> alexandria needs it
<\sh> so as wenn 0.2.1-0ubuntu1
<zyga> okay
<\sh> s/wenn/well/
<slomo> is someone using evolution here and wants to confirm a bug for me?
<\sh> slomo: which one?
<zyga> \sh so what is the version scheme here?
<slomo> search a mail with that entry at the top of the mail lists... click on a signed mail, click on "reset search" (or how it's called in english... verwerfen in german) and it freezes
<zyga> upstream-NubuntuM
<zyga> what are N and M
<\sh> zyga: packages not in debian, and new to ubuntu -0ubuntu1
<\sh> zyga: packages new in ubuntu, but old version in debian, -0ubuntu1
<zyga> (isn't that the same ?)
<\sh> zyga: packages in debian, not in ubuntu == sync or merge, if merge then <debian-version>-<debian-rev>ubuntuX
<\sh> zyga: same version, but different backround ;)
<\sh> slomo: oh....
<\sh> slomo: w8 i filed it upstream ;)
<\sh> slomo: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317790
<\sh> slomo: it has nothing to do with the search..there are other reasons ;)
<\sh> slomo: please read the bug notice, and add your issue as well :) I think it has the same reason
<slomo> \sh: ok... it locks up while checking the gpg signature in my case
<siretart> zyga: what was your keyid again?
<\sh> slomo: yes...that's same for me...or at any other stage while it's trying to fetch new mail
<zyga> siretart: B3020F9C
<zyga> siretart: hi :)
<zyga> I've just re-uploaded those packages
<zyga> with fixed version numbers
<siretart> no need to
<zyga> hmm
<\sh> siretart: the version numbers are wrong...anyways ;)
<ajmitch> hey \sh
<\sh> hey ajmitch  :)
<siretart> \sh: oh, okay
* ajmitch should have said hi earlier :)
* ajmitch must be half asleep already
<\sh> I was at lunch ;)
<\sh> trying to build wesnoth 1.0 ;)
<\sh> from debian ;)
<slomo> \sh: ok... with backtrace ;)
<zyga> uff :)
<\sh> slomo: u have a backtrace? nice :)
<zyga> siretart: so now I just need to wait 5 minutes, right?
<slomo> \sh: sure... it's easy to get one
<siretart> zyga: so I can delete the rejected alexandria and libruby packages, yes?
<zyga> yes
<siretart> zyga: I just did a manual run
<siretart> should be already on the list
<zyga> yay :)
<zyga> they are
<\sh> slomo: well...I will try to get the stack backtrace this evening...
<zyga> thanks alot :)
<siretart> cleanup done
<zyga> siretart: directory (/var/revu/revu1-incoming/libzoom-ruby-0510040744/) of upload (690) not found
<siretart> whaat?!
<zyga> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=691
<slomo> \sh: gdb is more useful for multithreaded stuff
<siretart> gnarf
<zyga> and upid=690
<siretart> stupid me..
<\sh> slomo: i never did this ;)
<\sh> slomo: I'm trying to avoid debuggers ;) debugging software is the worst you can do..
<siretart> hm. there went something horribly wrong when importing
<slomo> \sh: ok, added my comment
<slomo> \sh: looks like a deadlock... all threads are in something that blocks
<\sh> slomo: how do i connect via gdb to the running process?
<slomo> \sh: gdb --pid $pid
<\sh> ok
<\sh> thx
<siretart> zyga: could you please reupload?
<zyga> siretart: sure
<zyga> libzoom-ruby done
<slomo> \sh: hope we get a fix for this and all my other bugs for breezy ;)
<zyga> alexandria done
<Seveas> does anyone know this: why does dpkg-buildpackage think a -0ubuntu1 version is a native debian package?
<zyga> BTW: alexandria had a maintainer in debian, I kept the maintainer entry in control file, is that okay?
<ajmitch> Seveas: missing orig.tar.gz
<Seveas> ajmitch, no it's there
<slomo> Seveas: probably because you don't have a correctly named orig.tar.gz in the parent dir of your source tree
<ajmitch> Seveas: then it's badly named
<slomo> Seveas: how is it called?
<ajmitch> Seveas: should be package_upstreamversion.orig.tar.gz
<ajmitch> eg f-spot_0.1.3.orig.tar.gz
<ajmitch> for the package f-spot 0.1.3-1
<Seveas> apt-get source whereami, cd whereami-$updtream-version, dch -i, set version to $upstream-oubuntu1
* ajmitch is happy he got a new mem card for his camera ;)
* \sh needs a camera
<Seveas> hmm ok, it's not named orig.tar.gz
<ajmitch> Seveas: why -0ubuntu1?
<ajmitch> is it a new upstream version?
<Seveas> ajmitch, because I applied a fix
<ajmitch> wrong version number then
<ajmitch> whereami is version 0.3.20
<ajmitch> so it becomes 0.3.20ubuntu1
<Seveas> right
<siretart> zyga: sorry, you just found a bug in my process_changes.py script :(
<ajmitch> and it is a native package then
<zyga> :-)))
<Seveas> thanks
* zyga breaks things ;] 
<siretart> zyga: could you please try running linda on your changes file?
<siretart> zyga: does this work or do you get an exception?
<siretart> hmmmm
<zyga> siretart: Iinda breaks
<zyga> lintian works
<zyga> I did try linda but it throws an exceptio
<siretart> zyga: same here, thats the reason I cannot import your upload
<siretart> very strange
<siretart> somethings seems to be weird with your package
<Seveas> hmm linda gives me exceptions too
<zyga> if dies on both packages
<siretart> and the problem is, I don't have time to debug it right now :(
<Seveas> (on a completely different package)
<zyga> siretart: I used dh_make, nothing speciall is there
<siretart> IndexError: list index out of range
<siretart> thats my exception
<zyga> and I did look at other ruby packages to get idea of what to put where
<Seveas>   File "/usr/lib/site-python/linda/output.py", line 79, in return_trans
<Seveas>     trans.charset(), 'replace').encode(trans.charset()))
<Seveas> TypeError: unicode() argument 2 must be string, not None
<siretart> gnarf. why does it work on ither pacckages?!
<siretart> :/
<Seveas> I get that on all deb/changes/dsc i try (whereami and tor)
<zyga> Seveas: I got that too
<\sh> siretart: path to the changes file now?
<Seveas> zyga, must be a bug in linda
<siretart> \sh: ~siretart/incoming
<siretart> \sh: linda ~siretart/incoming/alexandria_0.6.1-0ubuntu1_i386.changes
<siretart> sorry, need to go :*(/learn compiler stuff :(
<zyga> siretart: you study compilers?
<siretart> \sh: if you want to debug it, the main problem importing fail is that /srv/revu1/scripts/query-changes.py -n -c alexandria_0.6.1-0ubuntu1_i386.changes fails
<siretart> \sh: query-changes uses the ChangesParser from linda
<siretart> zyga: yes
<\sh> siretart: k
<crimsun> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=316565
<zyga> siretart: cool, me too ;)
<crimsun> it's fixed in linda 0.3.16
<siretart> oh
<\sh> siretart: Architecture: source all
<siretart> argl
<\sh> siretart: but when I see our changes from breezy...I can see only : source
<siretart> okay, so we need a newer changes parser..
<\sh> siretart: hmmm...jdong -> backports ,-)
<siretart> zyga: you did not use -S -sa
<siretart> zyga: please upload only changes files created with options '-S -sa'
<zyga> siretart: ah
* zyga didn't know that
<siretart> the bug is that process-uploads doesn't handle the case of binary uploads (which we dont want anyway)
<zyga> so dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa
<siretart> jepp
<zyga> k
<siretart> puh
<siretart> nothing too serious then. now I can go back to learning with clean concious ;)
* zyga will update the wiki for REVU newbies
<zyga> siretart: I've got two .changes files now
<zyga> _source.changes? right?
* \sh requested a sync for wesnoth 1.0...fixes some bugs and is stable
<siretart> zyga: exactly!
<siretart> zyga: thanks
<zyga> hmm
<slomo> \sh: perfect :)
<zyga> No signature on /home/zyga/my-alexandria-package/alexandria_0.6.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes.
<zyga> buildpackage previously signed everything...
<zyga> eh
<zyga> why doesn't it sign this package
<siretart> zyga: use debsign
<\sh> slomo: it reminds me sometimes of one of my famouse windows games...what was the game again...
<zyga> siretart: it says .dsc is already signed
<zyga> but when I upload .source.changes it says it's not
<slomo> \sh: wesnoth is round based? civilisation or alpha centauri maybe?
<zyga> siretart: dput revu *.dsc
<zyga> ?
<\sh> slomo: no...heroes III ;)
<slomo> zyga: you have to sign the .changes
<\sh> http://www.lokigames.com/products/heroes3/
<\sh> I have it original for linux from lokigames ;)
<zyga> ...
<slomo> \sh: ah ok... that was interesting too :) from lokigames i only have run ;) sadly they closed :( i think today that would have a good chance to stay in business
<slomo> \sh: rune even
<zyga> http://pastebin.com/382566
<zyga> cannot upload now
<\sh> slomo: yeah
<zyga> anyone?
<slomo> \sh: please remove zyga's upload from incoming ;)
<\sh> moment ;)
<zyga> the wiki really wasn't intended for new contributors IMHO :)
<\sh> done
<zyga> okay uploading
<zyga> yes!, it worked
<zyga> \sh: did you remove both alexandria and libzoom-ruby?
<slomo> zyga: and for ruby... please file a bug at bugzilla with somewhat high severity
<\sh> zyga: yep
<zyga> slomo: you are talking about ruby1.8.2-9, right?
<\sh> -rw-------  1 siretart revu      8991 2005-10-04 08:15 alexandria_0.6.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<\sh> -rw-------  1 siretart revu       645 2005-10-04 08:15 alexandria_0.6.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
<\sh> -rw-------  1 siretart revu       953 2005-10-04 08:15 alexandria_0.6.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<slomo> zyga: yes
<\sh> -rw-------  1 siretart revu    929638 2005-10-04 08:15 alexandria_0.6.1.orig.tar.gz
<\sh> -rw-------  1 siretart revu      3036 2005-10-04 08:17 libzoom-ruby_0.2.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<\sh> -rw-------  1 siretart revu       717 2005-10-04 08:17 libzoom-ruby_0.2.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
<\sh> -rw-------  1 siretart revu      1106 2005-10-04 08:17 libzoom-ruby_0.2.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<\sh> -rw-------  1 siretart revu     25107 2005-10-04 08:17 libzoom-ruby_0.2.1.orig.tar.gz
<\sh> coffee :)
<zyga> thanks \sh :))
<tseng> \sh: what jabberd did you use?
<tseng> \sh: jabberd2 is ridiculous
<zyga> \sh: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/libzoom-ruby-0510040820/libzoom-ruby_0.2.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<zyga> You don't have permission to access /revu1-incoming/libzoom-ruby-0510040820/libzoom-ruby_0.2.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes on this server.
<\sh> zyga: that is correct
<\sh> tseng: ejabberd
<\sh> tseng: the erlang version...
<\sh> tseng: jabberd2 was to buggy...
<\sh> zyga: is not a mistake :)
<zyga> \sh: oh, okay
<zyga> I've got a typo in alexandria's control file
<zyga> apparently a missing comma will make the dependency system crazy :(
<zyga> I'm fixing that
<tseng> \sh: i figured it out
<tseng> \sh: its great!
* zyga needs to build libyaml-ruby1.8 too :)
<zyga> what should I do with the existing maintainter entry?
<zyga> provide another one?
<zyga> keep the original
<zyga> remove original?
<slomo> keep
<bddebian> Heya gang
<zyga> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello zyga
* zyga doesn't have time to file a bug on ruby 
<bddebian> You still fighting with Ruby? :-)
<zyga> if anyone could file a severe bug on our ruby version I'd be grateful -)
<zyga> bddebian: yeah :(
<zyga> I won actually
<zyga> alexandria and it's depentant library are in revu
<zyga> but our ruby is broken
<zyga> debian's unstable 1.8.3-1 works okay
<zyga> but ruby is in main and we are just a few days away
<zyga> so that's a problem
<\sh> so alexdria+lib don't make it in universe for breezy
<zyga> bddebian: feel free to build libzoom-ruby and alexandria from REVU and check it out :)
<bddebian> Heh
<zyga> so we ship old alexandria and broken ruby IMHO but I see your point \sh
<\sh> zyga: ruby is main...so it needs mdzs or kamions approve..and I don't see it happen so close to release
<\sh> zyga: same for amarok-1.3.2
<zyga> I know
<\sh> zyga: riddell got only the permission to backport alsaink functionality for amarok-1.3.1
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<Riddell> \sh: done by the way
<\sh> Riddell: saw it this morning :) good work :)
<crimsun> geez, we already have people clamoring for wesnoth 1.0
<bddebian> Hehe
<\sh> crimsun: it's requested for sync by elmo :) done it already :)
<bddebian> I won't touch it after bringing in 0.9.7 ahead of time ;-P
<\sh> bddebian: I tested it :)
<\sh> bddebian: so now I'll get the kicks ;)
<bddebian> \sh: Do you know if the -t option works in 1.0 ??
<\sh> what is -t?
<dholbach> \sh: malone bug
<\sh> dholbach: number?
<bddebian> \sh: It's supposed to start the test scenario
<\sh> unknown szenario "test"
<dholbach> \sh: i would have to search as much as you'd have to :-p
<bddebian> \sh: 1213
<\sh> Richte wesnoth ein (1.0-1) ...
<\sh> Richte wesnoth-editor ein (1.0-1) ...
<\sh> Richte wesnoth-ei ein (1.0-1) ...
<\sh> Richte wesnoth-httt ein (1.0-1) ...
<\sh> Richte wesnoth-server ein (1.0-1) ... * Starting Wesnoth server: wesnothd                                                                 [ ok ] 
<\sh> Richte wesnoth-sotbe ein (1.0-1) ...
<\sh> Richte wesnoth-trow ein (1.0-1) ...
<dholbach> does it work with all the crackful scenario things installed?
<ogra> wesnothd ?
<ogra> phew
<dholbach> ogra: you don't need it to play :)
<ogra> i know
<\sh> where are the szenarios? i think this is missing at my place ;)
<ogra> the above looks quite heavy for a game :)
<bddebian> I see Malone interface has changed again
<bddebian> \sh: I could never figure that out :-)
<dholbach> \sh: the other wesnoth-* packages... you might already have them all
* zyga would love if anyone could have a look at libzoom-ruby and alexandria anyway :)
<zyga> those are my first packages
<dholbach> \sh:     strace -eopen,stat wesnoth -t    might help
<crimsun> welp, another x window system upgrade dance
<ogra> sigh...
* zyga goes to work :)
<zyga> c'ya guys
<bddebian> Wow, the bug count is way down this morning.  ajmitch must have been busy :-)
<bddebian> Later zyga
<ogra> i just finished a 200 package upgrade
<dholbach> you're complaining as if you'd have to copy the files manually out of the packages
<dholbach> sissies :-p
<crimsun> bah
<dholbach> see you later
<dholbach> :)
<bddebian> Hehe, later dholbach
<crimsun> cya
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> started music
<\sh> 1143087198
<\sh> error general: Unbekanntes Szenario: 'test'
<\sh> open("/home/shermann/.wesnoth", O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_LARGEFILE|O_DIRECTORY) = 7
<bddebian> Am I supposed to know what Unbekanntes Szenario is? ;-P
<\sh> Unknown Scenario
<bddebian> :-)
<\sh> ok...bbl from home...cu later
<bddebian> Later \sh
<\sh> will test it there
<bddebian> OK
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Kyral> hoy!
<sistpoty> hi Kyral
<Kyral> I just got permission from the author to package the Futurama Fortune tarball I found
<sistpoty> Futurama Fortune? sounds interesting :)
<Kyral> Yah its just two files and I'm just gonna make a Makefile with the install command "install -d $(distdir)/usr/<wherever they go>"
<Kyral> but still, no license on the page so I had to email the guy
<Kyral> perfect job for a MOTU-In-Training (CL)
<sistpoty> hehe
<Kyral> CL == Copyleft ;P
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty, Kyral
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Ack, meeting time.. :-(
<Kyral> Meeting?
<bddebian> Kyral: Work :-)
<sistpoty> bddebian: meeting now?
<Kyral> Ah I thought you meant MOTU Meeting
<bddebian> sistpoty: Just RL work :-)
<sistpoty> ah... but TB meeting is tonight, isn't it?
<Kyral> TB?
<sistpoty> TechnicalBoard
<Kyral> Ah
<Kyral> Wazzat again?
<sistpoty> they produce motus ;)
<Kyral> Ah
<Kyral> So I should show up
<sistpoty> Wouldn't be a bad idea... but beforce becoming a MOTU you need to be a member
<sistpoty> for that CommunityCouncil votes
<Kyral> Which I'm only an Ubuntite
<Kyral> Signed the Code of Conduct and been a member of the Forums, but thats about it
<Kyral> and helped kill bugs...
* Kyral groans
<sistpoty> that's a good start for it ;)
<Kyral> I can't wait until X goes modular
<Kyral> Then I can stop downloading these drivers I don't use
<Kyral> When does the Community Council meet?
<sistpoty> erm... X is modular already, isn't it?
<Kyral> Not the one we use
<sistpoty> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar
<Kyral> we use the transition one
<Kyral> X.Org released two versions this time
<Kyral> IIRC 6.8 and 6.9 are the same, but 6.8 is static and 6.9 is modular
<sistpoty> hm... current breezy packs are 6.8 but pretty modularized already
<Kyral> X.Org 7 will be fully modular
<Kyral> and I mean Kernel style modular
<sistpoty> wow
<Kyral> So I won't have to download all these goddamn graphics drivers I don't use
<Kyral> I compile my NVidia module from the installer from NVidia
<Kyral> since yanno, nvidia-glx is kinda busted in Breezy
<sistpoty> hm... my nvidia-glx works quite good... imo the one from restricted-modules, however with custom kernel built, so i can't say if it works ootb
<Kyral> Last I knew glx didn't work
<Kyral> then again I haven't tried
<Kyral> I've grown quite used to compiling it from the installer
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> the guy didn't say what license I should use...
<sistpoty> hehe, sounds like more mail writing
<Kyral> Nah.....I think I can assume GPL or Public Domain...
<Gervystar> has any of you noticed a strange behaviour in mahjong? (the gnome game) when using the svg theme I see some broken graphics, with blue tiles. Maybe there's a bug in some svg rendering lib?
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Anyone read Mark Shuttleworth's Wiki Page on the UbuntuWiki?
<zyga> re
<spayne> yo all
<slomo> hi spayne
<sistpoty> hi slomo
<slomo> spayne: before you ask... no ipod-sharp until now ;) abock hopes to get the banshee release out later or tomorrow... better get snorp to ship his own copy of entagged-sharp until then :)
<slomo> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hrmpf... hat is eval ;)
<sistpoty> s/eval/evil/
<slomo> hm?
<Nafallo> slomo: "that is evil" I belive :-)
<slomo> sistpoty: what is evil? ;)
<sistpoty> hat (haskell source level tracer)
<sistpoty> *g*
<Nafallo> hehe
<slomo> ah
<slomo> haskell ;)
<sistpoty> yep... old package ftbfs, new upstream ftbfs... argh!
<sistpoty> and I even hope this is not related to a "fixed" version of hmake *g*
<Nafallo> lol
<slomo> sistpoty: does haskell have type inference?
<sistpoty> yes, it does
<slomo> sistpoty: inference even
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> I wonder if we have this centericq patch... ;-)
<slomo> sistpoty: ok, then the script for our "grundlagen der programmiersprachen" is wrong ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<slomo> sistpoty: hm, is it called script in english?
<sistpoty> slomo: dunno
<slomo> hm ok
<\sh> bddebian: I think there is no test-scenario zip file
<sistpoty> hi \sh
<\sh> hey sistpoty
* sistpoty is frustrated by haskell and needs a cigarette now :)
<\sh> http://icculus.org/neverball/
<bddebian> \sh: Aye, I could never find one :-)
<slomo> \sh: nice game :)
<\sh> bddebian: me neither...I'll check the source later ;)
<\sh> I'll have to take a nap before TB
<slomo> oh, today is TB?
<slomo> when?
<bddebian> \sh: There should be a scenerio-test.<something> but I don't know if that is the right one or not.
<\sh> bddebian: this is what 1.0 has
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 root root 12659559 2005-10-04 14:00 wesnoth-coredata.zip
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 root root     9109 2005-10-04 14:00 wesnoth-editor.zip
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 root root   306415 2005-10-04 14:00 wesnoth-ei.zip
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 root root  4353548 2005-10-04 14:00 wesnoth-httt.zip
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 root root    39825 2005-10-04 14:00 wesnoth-mp.zip
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 root root  1800001 2005-10-04 14:00 wesnoth-sotbe.zip
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 root root   683522 2005-10-04 14:00 wesnoth-sound.zip
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 root root   254978 2005-09-18 04:20 wesnoth-tdh.zip
<Kyral> ACK ACK ACK!
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 root root  2037276 2005-10-04 14:00 wesnoth-trow.zip
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 root root    11884 2005-10-04 14:00 wesnoth-tutorial.zip
<\sh> where -tdh.zip is the main scenario
<\sh> slomo: 20 UTC
<slomo> ok
<bddebian> wb dholbach
<bddebian> \sh: Isn't there a scenario-test.cfg or something in the source??
<\sh> argl...I can't play neverball....somethings wrong with my 3d accell
<dholbach> re
<\sh> bddebian: yes there is
* \sh away nap taking
<bddebian> \sh: No napping allowed ;-P
<markuman> damn, there is something wrong http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/xfce4-taskmanager-0510041215/linda in the control Description.? i think. but dont no what :-/
<pef_aw> hi
<bddebian> Heya pef
<pef> bddebian: how are you ? (compiling kvpnc-0.8)
<sistpoty> markuman: seems like linda on revu is outdated
<bddebian> pef: Nice.  OK, thx.  You?
<markuman> sistpoty, so my control file could be correct?!
<sistpoty> markuman: just glanced at it, but it seems good
<pef> bddebian: fine, can be more active than previous month :)
<bddebian> coolio
<pef> markuman: you have config.{guess,sub} stuff into your diff, not very good and not easy to manage :/
<pef> markuman: and you can delete commented out debhelper commands calls into debian/rules
<pef> markuman: and add homepage to debian/control description :)
<bddebian> Hey people how about we fix some of the existing stuff in the archive instead of trying to bring in all this new shit?? ;-P
* bddebian ducks
<markuman> pef, ok
<sistpoty> cya later... need to buy food
<ogra> bddebian++
<bddebian> ogra: ;)
<crimsun> hey now, I have been :P
* bddebian hugs crimsun
<spayne> tseng: ping
* ogra hugs bddebian and crimsun 
* spayne feels left out ;)
<spayne> how would anyone rate  GNOME Sensors Applet to package?
<ogra> spayne, do you know why youre left out ?
<spayne> not really :)
<slomo> because: <bddebian> Hey people how about we fix some of the existing stuff in the archive instead of trying to bring in all this new shit?? ;-P
<bddebian> spayne: Well your question about GNOME Sensors applet is a good indicator ;-P
<ogra> spayne, because we al agreed several times not to bring in new packages before not all transitions and unmet deps packages are fixed...
<spayne> right
<spayne> is there a list of broken packages
<ogra> ...to concentrate the manpower on the important stuff
<ogra> several...
<spayne> just remember i'm still getting hold of the packaging thing :)
<ogra> then this is far better than making new packages
<ryu> hi
<bddebian> Hello ryu
<ogra> since you learn how others did it first ;)
<pef> someone can archive on REVU ?
<spayne> ogra: is there a list of packages that are broken?
<pef> please archive kvpnc, I'm uploading to REVU new upstream version
<bddebian> spayne: UniverseUnmetDeps, Malone
<pef> ogra: ? :] 
<ogra> pef, ?
<pef> ogra: have you "archive" rights on REVU ?
<ogra> i dont even have an account
<bddebian> I should but I don't know how to do it :-(
<pef> erf :)
<slomo> pef: for new versions the old must not be archived... just upload the new version ;)
<pef> slomo: ping
<slomo> pef: revu is smar
<slomo> smart
<JakubS_> hello
<pef> ok, thanks for the info
<JakubS_>  is there clean way to replace library from a package?
<slomo> pef: and for the ping... i have to leave now ;)
<JakubS_>  i want to install package libkdnssd-avahi that will replace /usr/lib/libkdnssd.so.1.0.0 from kdelibs4c2 with better (actually working) version
<JakubS_> using dpkg-divert and the same library name confuses ldconfig (it symlinks .so.1 to old lib)
<ivoks> so.... google is doing office
<ogra> JakubS_, why not just use a "Replaces:" in the control file ?
<ivoks> hi all :)
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<bddebian> Fuck, I can't fix shit :-(
<ivoks> well
<ivoks> bddebian: google will do it :)
<bddebian> No it won't :-(
<ivoks> it seems they can do everything :)
<JakubS_> ogra: because if i later remove libkdnssd-avahi (for whatever reason) libkdnssd.so.1.0.0 will be missing (and it supposed to be provided by kdelibs4c2)
<ogra> bddebian, apt-cache show shit doesnt give anything here ... did you switch to package new stuff too now ? :P
<ivoks> :)
<JakubS_> and some apps will stop working
<ogra> JakubS_, hmm, true...
<bddebian> ogra: Aye ;-P
<bddebian> Smartass :-)
<ogra> :p
<JakubS_> best idea so far is naming new lib .so.1.0.1 so it will get picked by ldconfig by default. it leaves old lib (.so.1.0.0) from kdelibs4c2 on disk though
<ogra> JakubS_, did you talk to avahi upstream about it why he didnt make that change ?
<ogra> Lathiat, ?? ^^
<ogra> i guess he's asleep
<JakubS_> uhm, what change? avahi packages are ok
<JakubS_> problem is with kdelibs4c2 and kdnssd-avahi (package i'm trying to make)
<ogra> JakubS_, and asking Riddell to fix up kdelibs4c2 for you, so you dont need a separate libkdnssd-avahi package to replace the lib ?
<JakubS_> kinda late - as i understand there is some feature freeze in effect
<Riddell> JakubS_: small changed can be made after the release candidate on thursday
<Riddell> changes
<ogra> depends how critical the change is... and how Riddell sees it
<ogra> its cleaner than dpkg-diverting it
<JakubS_> depends if making zeroconf actually working for kde is small change or not :-)
<Riddell> it's a big change
<JakubS_> heh :-)
<Riddell> but if it's just a case of a small change in kdebase and a new package that won't go in hoary anyway that might be ok
<Riddell> s/hoary/breezy/
<JakubS_> if it is not installed by default then kdelibs4c2 still has to contain stub library and there is still a problem
<JakubS_> i wonder if kdelibs4-dev making libkdnssd.so->libkdnssd.so.1.0.0 will make a real problem if i choose to just install .so.1.0.1 and have ldconfig deal with it
<\sh> wooohaa
<\sh> amaroks radio list is completly outdated...
<JakubS_> Riddell: not excluding kio_zeroconf from compilation would be also a big change?
<\sh> and the Radio Streams List under Playlists is as well broken ... shit
<\sh> hey ogra btw
<Riddell> JakubS_: yes, I'm afraid so
<ogra> hi \sh
<JakubS_> Riddell: hm, it is ok, it is still possible to make several packages from the same source
<\sh> ogra: greetings from klaus...
<ogra> thanks greetings back
<\sh> and I think my neighbors don't like me anymore...since I'm playing day in day out indian songs ;)
<JakubS_> maybe you have volume too low and they can't hear it good enough
<JakubS_> turn it up and they will love you :-)
<bddebian> \sh: Indian as in India?
<\sh> bddebian: Indian Music like in "They singing in Hindi" yes ;)
<bddebian> Ahh
<\sh> No Red Indian ;)
<\sh> http://www.shoutcast.com/sbin/shoutcast-playlist.pls?rn=596305&file=filename.pls
<\sh> and I need a bittorrent tracker for bollywood movies ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<janimo> markuman ping
<janimo> hi all
<bddebian> Hello janimo
<markuman> janimo pong
<bddebian> Any C++ experts in here?
<markuman> janimo (18:26:53) pef: markuman: you have config.{guess,sub} stuff into your diff, not very good and not easy to manage :/
<\sh> bddebian: let me have a shower and a look afterwards ;)
<bddebian> \sh: Rockin', thanks
<dholbach> ogra: i do the .desktop update of hwdb-client, ok?
<ogra> dholbach, sure, can you s/Ubuntu// ?
<janimo> markuman, I am not sure how to get rid of those config diffs, I have them in some of my xfec packages
<dholbach> ogra: it's a bit hard, dunno how or where to drop that in the translated strings
<ogra> dholbach, calling it hardware database is enough... no need for branding :)
<janimo> I think I was close to knowing it once but forgot :)
<dholbach> ogra: there would be some prepositions gone astray
<markuman> hm
<ogra> dholbach, mark requested it i missed it through the screensaver stuff
<janimo> \sh get the shower after the C++, it'smessy :)
<ogra> dholbach, but if its to difficult, leave it in
<dholbach> ogra: i leave it in
<ogra> hmmkay :/
<janimo> markuman, what if you just say 3.6.1 as standard does that shut linda up?
<bddebian> dholbach: Fix the one for scribus while you're at it. ;-P
* bddebian ducks
<dholbach> bddebian: man... :)
<markuman> janimo, i will try
<janimo> but since lintian is fine I think it's no problem
<ogra> bddebian, whats wrong with scribus ?
<bddebian> ogra: Malone bug 2195.  I think the scribus .desktop just needs re-arranging.  That's all I had to do.
<ogra> hmm... main package.... a bit late, damned... another one i missed
<ogra> but i simply look for main bugs in malone
<bddebian> Actually 1481 should be an easy fix too for scribus (hint, hint
<ogra> *dont
<bddebian> Why is it too late?  It shouldn't break anything
<Amaranth> ogra: sure moving the Type line might fix it but it sounds like a bug in libgnome-menu
<markuman> janimo, :-) if i change to 3.6.1 lintian makes noise but linda is quiet
<bddebian> Amaranth: Why?
<Amaranth> bddebian: Why should it matter where in the file the Type key is?
<markuman> strange...
<janimo> markuman ,we'll trust lintian then I guess :)
<janimo> I don't know much aboyt what changed in 3.6.2 I guess not much, but maybe linda does not know about it yet
<janimo> does it complain even on your box I take it?
<markuman> janimo, ok . change back to 3.6.2
<bddebian> Amaranth: I don't know but in it's current state, the menu option doesn't work.  Moving that, it works fine.
<Amaranth> bddebian: Sure, and that should be done to fix this issue but I would open a bug upstream or in the ubuntu bugzilla against libgnome-menu about it as well
<markuman> no, on revu too. 3.6.1 lintian bitched. 3.6.2. linda bitched
<bddebian> Amaranth: Ahh, OK.  Sorry.
<dholbach> ogra: uploaded
<ogra> ok
<\sh> bddebian: ok..now whats the mess?
<bddebian> \sh: xgsmlib
<bddebian> Hang on I'll post a pastebin :-)
<\sh> ah guys, please send me a list with all packages which have to be morgued
<\sh> sh@sourcecode.de :)
<markuman> janimo, ok, its now on revu. with no lintian noise but just linda...
<ogra> bah, use your ubuntu.com address :)
<\sh> ogra: no :)
<bddebian> \sh: http://pastebin.ubuntulinux.nl/2762
<\sh> I'm too lazy to add this email to my gpg ;)
<bddebian> Don't feel bad, mine doesn't even work :-)
<ogra> \sh, its takes *seconds* to add
<\sh> ogra: well...what will klaus think if he's seeing that I mail with an ubuntu.com address...right now I'm fighting against serious rumours
<\sh> ;)
<ogra> hehehe
<ogra> dont fight them :)
<ogra> just enjoy :)
<janimo> markuman, I'll have a look before going to sleep, promiss :)
<janimo> ogra, btw how to use the ubuntu.com address for sending?
<janimo> different SMTP host?
<\sh> janimo: use smtp auth and a relay server ,)
<ogra> my host does smtp auth...
<janimo> ogra, thanks
<\sh> bddebian: the first line you changed? or the commented in stuff?
<bddebian> \sh: I changed the first line to the commented lines and it still bombs
<janimo> ogra, so with no smtp server under my control it cannot be done?
<\sh> bddebian: yea...
<\sh> janimo: u need a relay? I'll can provide you with a nice temp email address ;)
<janimo> \sh, thanks :) I currently have a gmail and the ubuntu address the older ones I am deprecating :)
<\sh> janimo: I mean for sending ;)
<janimo> but if you can set up a relay for my IP it would be nice (although I dunno if it stays fixed)
<\sh> bddebian: I'll have to check the complete source
<\sh> janimo: smtp auth only with username and pw :)
<janimo> \sh thanks then I'll take the offer :)
<janimo> I dunno anything bout smtp auth
<janimo> that's why I am confused
<janimo> but I'll read up on t
<janimo> on it
* Nafallo should write his "secure server guide" :-)
<\sh> janimo: what email client u r using?
<janimo> \sh right now only web/gmail
<janimo> but mutt is fine
<janimo> for the ubu address, or t-bird
<janimo> I follow most mailing lists through gmane
<\sh> janimo: hmmm....tbird is fine
<\sh> mutt-ng is quite difficult cause you have to adjust as well your postfix stuff
<janimo> \sh, I   rememver now t-bird has auth-smtp setting, so now Iknow what it's for :)
<janimo> used on gmail as well
<janimo> ok I don't care bout mutt then
<\sh> janimo: ah..so you can send through gmail..did u try?
<janimo> \sh yes
<\sh> janimo: even with another email address ?
<janimo> and since yesterday they say youy can tweak your From: header
<\sh> so everything is fine :)
<janimo> but that would mean that address for all recipients
<janimo> I want to use ubuntu for FSF and gmail for personal mail though :)
<\sh> janimo: you can add different aliases for the one account
<janimo> \sh ok I'll try that then
<janimo> :)
<janimo> s/FSF/FOSS/
<\sh> bddebian: I think u fixed more then that...so please try this:
<\sh> bddebian: vector<ForwardReason> fr = &(temp.forwardReasons());
<\sh> what is FOSS? everybody is talking/writing about but I don't have the complete meaning behind this abbrev.
<ogra_> free and open source software
<\sh> ah
<\sh> btw...did anyone requested a motu list? something like universe-devel? ,-)
* ivoks again
<ivoks> :)
<dholbach> universe-devel? :)
<ivoks> great news guys! :)
<\sh> yes ;)
<\sh> and universe-request ;)
<dholbach> \sh: that'd confuse me :)
<ogra_> agrh, nooo
<\sh> dholbach: so...ubuntu-motu?
<ogra_> not another list please
<dholbach> \sh: please don't listen to ogra :)
<ogra_> why do we need to fragment the comunity even more... development is already split all over the place
<\sh> dholbach: another idea is the "universe-request" email address...we could make a auto-parse-mail script on tiber to check correct requests...like RFP ,->
* ivoks is deploying 15 ubuntu desktops instead of win95/98
<dholbach> ivoks: ROCK
<ivoks> dholbach: yeah :)
<ivoks> dholbach: they wanted fedora, but... :))
<ivoks> i said no :)
<dholbach> "if you want it maintainable, choose ubuntu" :)
<ivoks> ;)
<\sh> ogra_: there is much stuff on -devel...and all motu requests to the community I think it's lost on this list
<ogra_> \sh, i wont join that list
<dholbach> \sh: i more than agree
<ogra_> that doesnt help -devel at all
<dholbach> \sh: but about the UniverseCandidates thing: i thought it would be ported to launchpad?
<\sh> dholbach: would even be better
<ogra_> you just create anothe list that draws noise and support requests in
<ogra_> dholbach, nope, we talked about RT several times
<\sh> ogra_: so how can we accomplish, that motu is not overheard by the community?
<ivoks> dholbach: but they'll use icewm, instead of gnome (crapy old machines)
<dholbach> ogra_: somebody told me about the launchpad idea
<ogra_> \sh, use the existing channels...
<ogra_> \sh, i'm serious about not joining it...
<dholbach> ogra_: that's a silly argument in a discussion
<dholbach> ogra_: i think it's better to be able to concentrate on a specific topic, don't you think so?
<dholbach> it's hard to follow even #ubuntu-devel sometimes
<dholbach> and it's easier for newcomers
<ogra_> \sh, when we opened this channel we were asked to do no development in here (to not fragment development over several channels)... dholbach who had opened it promised mdz several times that would never happen, we'd only coordinate stuff here
<dholbach> it's a matter of organsitation, i won't deny that
<dholbach> ogra_: we grew
<dholbach> ogra_: don't forget that
<ogra_> dholbach, it didnt work for this channel... how should it work for                 othermedia ?
<dholbach> ogra_: and i didn't promise several times
<ogra_> dholbach, you did...
<dholbach> it didn't work?
<dholbach> several times?
<ogra_> to me, to mdz ...
<dholbach> we talked about it ONE time
<ogra_> dholbach, obviously all universe development happens here now
<dholbach> what are you referring to in the "not working" part?
<dholbach> and it's a good thing
<dholbach> because NEW people are sent here
<dholbach> and we get them on track
<ogra_> dholbach, only coordinating and not pulling the development out of the eyes of te main devs didnt work
<dholbach> we're 92 people in here - i dunno how #ubuntu-devel would like to have our traffic in their channel too
<ogra_> so mdz or Kamion dont know at all whats going on in universe... thats what mdz told me he feared when you opened the channel
<dholbach> ogra_: i suppose everybody involved has enough stuff to keep their eyes own, right?
<ogra_> i know we cant lock it down now...
<dholbach> don't make me feel, like i did something wrong, thank you
<ogra_> but thats why i object a separat ML ... you woint be able to lock it down and you fragment even more
<dholbach> teams are a good thing
<dholbach> and organisation "for everybody" doesn't work
<dholbach> but that's the wrong place for this discussion
<dholbach> and we need new arguments
<ogra_> dholbach, not at all
<dholbach> the wrong time
<dholbach> sorry
* ivoks wants to say thank you to all austrians :)
<ogra_> dholbach, i didnt bring up the new ML again...
<bddebian> \sh: Trying now, thx
<ogra_> dholbach, and since it affects all people in here it think there is no better place to discuss it...
<dholbach> nor did i, i just understood a couple of the arguments
<dholbach> ogra_: yeah, for dapper
<dholbach> and we should talk about it in a bof
<dholbach> that's what i meant
<ogra_> so put a BOF on the boflist
<bddebian> \sh:
<bddebian> xgsm_device.cc: In member function 'Xgsm::DeviceInfoResponse::ForwardInfoTriple Xgsm::DeviceInfoResponse::getCallForwardInfo(gsmlib::ForwardReason)':
<bddebian> xgsm_device.cc:204: error: conversion from 'Xgsm::RequestRef' to non-scalar type 'Xgsm::DeviceInfoRequest' requested
<ogra_> i dont think a BOF is the right place... lots of people in here wont be at UBZ
<Kyral> Man I wish I could stay at UBZ for the BOFs, but I have class that week
<ogra_> and it affects everyone...
<\sh> bddebian: can u send me the former patches?
<Kyral> so its only Ubuntu Love Day for me ;P
<dholbach> yes, i understood that point
<bddebian> \sh: This is the only other one:  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=274386
<ogra_> i think its rather a point for a MOTU meeting, and dholbach dont worry, i will be overruled by the masses for sure...
<Nafallo> ogra_: you have my vote on this particular question if there will be a BOF about it.
<dholbach> ogra_: well, then we'd take it in there - i just don't think that it's wrong to discuss plans, when (ok, i got your argument about it) some of us are face to face
<dholbach> at least discuss
<ogra_> Nafallo, i think dholbach will schedule one
<dholbach> yes?
<ogra_> dholbach, i'll be at UBZ and if there is a MOTU related BOF i'll be there ... if you think its stuff for a BOF, schedule one :)
<dholbach> you were so sure about my plans, that's why i wondered...
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> the question is only: how we're defining development...
<ogra_> <dholbach> and we should talk about it in a bof
<ogra_> :)
<janimo> I have asked jdub about ubuntu-motu last weak and he said it's a good idea now that motu is large
<janimo> last week
<ryu> h
<ryu> i
<bddebian> \sh: Fix it yet? ;-P
<\sh> bddebian: phone...support ;)
<\sh> bddebian: I'm on it but
<bddebian> \sh: You ROCK d00d :-)
* bddebian has been useless last two days. :'-(
<markuman> janimo, ping - are you still awake?
<Nafallo> \sh: talking to pitti are you? ;-)
<\sh> Nafallo: no...what?
<zyga> hello
<zyga> :)
<\sh> support on the phone for DNS ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: you said phone...support and pitti said he was on the phone almost the same time ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Heya zyga
<janimo> markuman, yes
<janimo> I have just looked at the package
<janimo> did not try it out yet as I want to finish something before relogging in
<janimo> it apparently does not see the taskmgr plugin until panel restart
<janimo> hmm I may just rekick th epanel only
<markuman> janimo, another question. cant find the svg file from the xubuntu logo
<zyga> what's up guys :)
<janimo> markuman, that's the same as the png only 400K, steve sent it to me offline
<janimo> want to make the usplash screen?
<janimo> I can forward you that file if you want it for any reason
<markuman> janimo, i want to try....
<janimo> ok :)
<markuman> that would be great
<janimo> only the final art is png you know but i'll send it anyway
<markuman> ok
<janimo> markuman, sent it
<janimo> any bored motus want to look at xubuntu-artwork?
<markuman> janimo, thx it arrived :-)
<ivoks> ah... xubuntu
* ivoks did xubuntu install yesterday
<bddebian> WTF is xubuntu?  xfce?
<ivoks> yep
<ogra> yup
<bddebian> Oh nice
<ogra> janimo, crimsun do you plan to move it to main one day ?
<janimo> bddebian, yes
<bddebian> I like xfce even if it isn't as "purty" as Gnome  ;-)
<janimo> ogra, one day yes, but currently it will be seeded from universe
<ivoks> but needs soem work :/
<janimo> ivoks, like what? I know it needs but I need feedback ;)
<bddebian> I think we should create a xpubuntu using xpde ;-P
<ogra> janimo, yes, i see that... there i a lot of demand for a small desktop solution in the edubuntu community
<janimo> sound/printing needs setting up
<ivoks> janimo: oh, ther is no gnome-cups-manager on the list
<ivoks> janimo: :)
<janimo> ivoks, figuring out what to use for printing is on the todo list
<janimo> on the wiki
<ivoks> janimo: why not just use that gnome-tool? it works.
<janimo> ivoks, we just may if there's no other way
<ivoks> ok
<janimo> the main reason is to cut back on gnoem depends
<ivoks> it's a suggestion
<ivoks> i see
<janimo> if it's only libgomeprint then hurray
<ivoks> plans for ivman?
<janimo> thanks for the suggestions appreciated
<janimo> yep, that too or pmount
<ivoks> awsome
<janimo> these are all fancy pieces of software for me ;)
<ivoks> yeah, but you know...
<janimo> so I need to get aquainted with them first
<janimo> seems like xubuntu users won't like just an xterm :)
<ivoks> hehe
<\sh> bah
* ivoks isn'y xubuntu user
<janimo> oh they're needed definitely, they're fancy for me cause I didn't use them so far
<ivoks> i just installed in to one my client
<\sh> janimo: what's up with xterm?
<janimo> ivoks, I meant seriously about xubuntu users, didn;t mean you :)
<ogra> \sh, way to heavy :p
<janimo> they'll need sound/print/ivman out of the box
<janimo> I understand them :)
<ivoks> aterm
<\sh> aterm doesn't like utf8
<\sh> xterm should work in any way
<\sh> I fixed it ,->
<janimo> xfce4-terminal will be the default in xubuntu
<ivoks> uxterm :)
<janimo> although I like multi-gnome-terminal best
<ivoks> it's slow
<janimo> but it's gnome/gtk1.2 app
<janimo> stil it may get on the CD
<\sh> uxterm is only a wrapper around xterm
<ogra> pterm !!!
<ogra> its small as xterm and knows utf8
<\sh> konsole ;-)
<Nafallo> CTRL+ALT+F1
<\sh> rxvt )
<ivoks> rxvt!
<ogra> heh... knosole as a *small* terminal app ?
<spayne> evening \sh, Nafallo
<\sh> hey spayne
<\sh> ogra: sure ;)
<Nafallo> spayne: morning
<\sh> ogra: takes less mem as gnome-terminal ;)
<ogra> \sh, not really the right suggestion for xfce users :)
<\sh> *CENSOREDSCREAM*
<ogra> \sh, ??
<\sh> shitty shitty xgsmlib...shitty templates
<\sh> it needs a secret term for references *mumble*
<ivoks> ttg
<ivoks> bye
<janimo> ivoks, bye
<\sh> who is proposed for motu?
<ogra> \sh, https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+members
<ogra> the new process is a bit odd, you can just click on the wiki pages
<ogra> will sistpoty be aroud today ?
<ogra> does anybody know ?
<spayne> i am proposed for a member if that helps
<janimo> heh dholbach applies for member ;)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> spayne, not in todays meeting
<spayne> today's meeting?
<spayne> oh, the MOTU meeting
<ogra> spayne, members are made by CC, today is TB
<spayne> TB?
<ogra> bmonty :)
<ogra> spayne, technical Board
<\sh> hmmm..who is dmitry?
<spayne> oh right, thanks ogra
<ogra> no idea
<\sh> DMITRY?
<dholbach> \sh: how is his surname?
<\sh> DmitriAlenitchev
<\sh> comdreja is already motu right?
<bddebian> \sh: I think so, though I haven't seen him in a while
<ogra> \sh, yes, but mdz doesnt belive me
<\sh> VincentUntz? u here?
<ogra> \sh, and i havent found the time to look up the right log to prove it
<bddebian> mdz doesn't want?
<\sh> There are many people I never saw on this channel....
<Tonio-> hi everyone
<Tonio-> bonjour dholbach ;)
<dholbach> hellas Tonio-
<\sh> shwarma I know...bmonty as well
<\sh> sistopy
<\sh> comdreja
<\sh> but the rest...
<bddebian> bmonty Must get in :-)
<bddebian> Heya Tonio-
<ogra> bddebian++
<bddebian> Isn't sistpoty already in?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> he naver manages to attend a meeting
<ogra> *never
<bddebian> I haven't seem shwarma recently now that you mention it
<bddebian> ogra: Yes, he says he has a problem with work and the time
<ogra> yup
<\sh> barmixer? ,-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> nightwatch ?
<spayne> brb
<bddebian> nightwatch and barmixer????
<ogra> barmixing nightwatch ?
<bddebian> hehe
<janimo> maybe he's a superhero
<janimo> that's why he's gone at night
<Kyral> Okay.....what is RadeonTool and why do I need it if I run NVidia?
<Nafallo> Kyral: apt-cache show radeontool, you probably don't.
<Kyral> Yah well its coming wiht the latest set of updates, so SOMETHING needs it
<\sh> bddebian: bah...2 years no word of the maintainer
<\sh> bddebian: leave it
<\sh> but I'll fix it..
<Kyral> Now smartdimmer I MAY need, if I ran a NVidia 6600Go, but I run a GeForceFX 5500
<Kyral> what package dragged this in......
<bddebian> \sh: ;-)
<janimo> markuman, I can;t login on revu right now but will vote for your package tomorrow, seems fine to me :)
* bddebian wonders if he should update gnucash and associated packages
<janimo> good night all
<Kyral> cya
<Kyral> damn
<Kyral> So I hit a tarball with dh_make, then edit the files to use CDBS?
<ogra> Kyral, why that ? just use debhelper if you already have the skeleton there
<Kyral> "skeleton"?
<Kyral> you mean it unpacked?
<ogra> the debhelper skeleton dh_make crates
<ogra> *creates
<Kyral> oy so many people telling me to use so many different things...
<Kyral> the Debian New Maintainers Guide says use the dh_make stuff
<ogra> Kyral, if you want to learn packaging, its best to stay with one packaging system and not start mixing tem
<Kyral> other people say use cdbs
<ogra> cdbs eases a lot, but you dont really learn it
<Kyral> I just started like last week
<ogra> Kyral, start with debhelper for your first packages... if you know what youre doing switch to cdbs :)
<Kyral> man debhelper
<Kyral> oops...
<ogra> Kyral, just follow the maintainer guide, do that for oe, two packages to understand the basics...
<ogra> s/oe/one
<ogra> then switch to cdbs if you think you need to...
<ogra> (its better to know what a spark plug is before you become a porsche mechanic ;) )
<\sh> has elmo holiday? ,-)
<ogra> \sh, yes
<\sh> damn
<\sh> so my sync I can forget...who is in charge?
<ogra> \sh, is it urgent ?
<\sh> ogra: wesnoth 1.0
<ogra> else i'd wait... iirc elmo comes back this week
<\sh> ogra: no server is accepting any pre-1.0 versions anymore
<siretart> re
<markuman> wb siretart
<sistpoty> hi all
<bddebian> Heya siretart, sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<sistpoty> ping slomo
<siretart> hi folks
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<sistpoty> hehe, other channel ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: u r on today
<sistpoty> hopefully :)
<siretart> ;)
<zyga> siretart: how many people are qualified/allowed to review packages in REVU?
<\sh> zyga: all motus...if there is time
<sistpoty> zyga: i.e. 19 accounts (motus that have registered on revu, probably some duplicate though, other email==other account)
<zyga> \sh: wc -l MOTUs
<bddebian> zyga: None until all bugs are fixed and current packages are installable ;-P
<zyga> ah
<zyga> 19
<Kyral> uhhhh
<Kyral> Removing RadeonTool removes ACPI and Powermanagement...
<slomo> sistpoty: pong
<sistpoty> slomo: did elmo answer you morgue requests yet?
<slomo> no
<slomo> he only answers my sync requests ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<Seveas> he didn't answer my whitelist request yet too
<sistpoty> I'll write him a mail then, now that we got response from wibble (haskell-dd)
<Seveas> and I have 2 debdiffs from malone bugs waiting :)
<slomo> sistpoty: yes, i read it... just forward this mail to him ;)
<sistpoty> ok
<slomo> Seveas: don't worry... just produce more :) tomorrow i'll upload everything for you
<Seveas> slomo, I have nothing more to produce now, I'm taking just the simple bugs ;)
<slomo> Seveas: oh... there must be more simple bugs ;)
<\sh> bddebian: source='xgsm_device.cc' object='xgsm_device.o' libtool=no \
<\sh> depfile='.deps/xgsm_device.Po' tmpdepfile='.deps/xgsm_device.TPo' \
<\sh> depmode=gcc3 /bin/sh ../scripts/depcomp \
<\sh> bddebian: we have to change more
<bddebian> beauty
<\sh> so i have to start over
<bddebian> :-(
<\sh> bddebian: or try to compile with gcc-3.4
<\sh> aeh g++-3.4
<bddebian> Morgue it? ;-)
<\sh> no..try g++-3.4
<\sh> the abi is the same...and if for dapper no new version is coming...get rid of it
<bddebian> Aye
<\sh> bddebian: but with the g++-3.4 patch applied
<\sh> I have templates and bla refs
<siretart> cu bddebian
<bddebian> Laterz :-)
<sistpoty> seems like I'll have to keep bugging you MOTU's for sponsoring... ;)
<Kyral> Can we like, make ACPI support optional
<Kyral> as in NOT part of the Ubuntu-Desktop package,
<Kyral> 'cause like I have no use for it as a Desktop users
<Kyral> Maybe make a separate meta-package for Laptop Utils
<\sh> ok....going to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 \sh_away
<Seveas> Kyral, acpi support is not just laptop features...
<Kyral> Nani?
<Kyral> Then what else uses it?
<siretart> ok, gn8 folks
<bmonty> night siretart
<sistpoty> gn8 siretart
<dholbach> night siretart
<Nafallo> dholbach: scribus is main here fwiw ;-)
<dholbach> Nafallo: oh i see
<Nafallo> I wonder how much stuff we have that is supported but not in a meta-package :-P
* Nafallo tries to make a homepage about himself but has nothing to write :-/
<ivoks> any motu awake? :)
<dholbach> :)
<ivoks> we have problem with -terminus fonts
<ivoks> i need advisory :)
<Kyral> How about a MOTU Wannabe?
<ivoks> since new fontconfig upload, they aren't in fs-list
<ivoks> Kyral: sorry :)
<Kyral> np, I just started last week so I know **** ;P
<ivoks> so where should fonts be installed by default?
<ivoks> in /usr/share/fonts?
<dholbach> ivoks: bddebian is workin on it
<Kyral> locate fonts ;P
<ivoks> argh...
<ivoks> that guy is allways working on something :)
<ivoks> when does he eat? :) or sleep?
<Kyral> I have an excuse for not working
<Kyral> Its my birthday ;P
<ivoks> anyway
<ivoks> good night all!
* ajmitch waves to all
<Kyral> yo
<comadreja> hello there :)
<ogra> comadreja, hey
<ajmitch> hi
* tseng waves to dholbach 
<tseng> here i am!
<ogra> do you remember when exactly you got approved as MOTU (iirc it was your wifes b-day)
<ogra> comadreja, ^^^
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> I see I didn't miss much? :)
<ajmitch> hi bddebian
<dholbach> hi tseng :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: you did
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<tseng> bddebian: dude, stop hogging all the bugs dholbach says
<bddebian> ajmitch: Idid?
<ogra> comadreja, mdz needs the exact date to approve you in the launchpad team, we switched team and gpg management to launchpad
<bddebian> tseng: Aye, WTF was that?  I'm not the ONLY one fixing bugs..
<bddebian> :)
* tseng fixes bugs
<comadreja> ogra, thanks :)
<tseng> i swear
* sistpoty fixed one tiny bug *g*
<ogra> comadreja, ??
<comadreja> sorry to have been out :(
<tseng> except they are all assigned to me/mono team
<comadreja> I'm under a very tight deadline at work
<tseng> i leave the motu bugs to bddebian
* ajmitch has fixed a couple of bugs
<bddebian> comadreja: You should be ;-P  j/k
<tseng> the expert cluefinder
<ogra> comadreja, i need the date when that happened :)
<comadreja> 26th July
<bddebian> I am hardly the expert clue-finder
<ogra> ah, thanks
<tseng> dude you so are
<comadreja> bddebian : :(
<tseng> you beat the clues out of people all the time
<tseng> and never give up
<comadreja> I'm so ashamed
<sistpoty> hehe
<tseng> until the bug is fixed!
<bddebian> tseng: Oh.. That. Well yes, I can be a PITA :-)
<ajmitch> comadreja: it's ok, I know what crushing work deadlines are like :)
<bddebian> comadreja: Bah, I'm only kidding
<ajmitch> except the one here got deferred a month (after the release, what a shame)
<comadreja> ok, let's get on it again
<tseng> ajmitch: i just wrote a check with a pen from the Vibe
* ajmitch ought to fix a few more bugs than he has been L(
<tseng> "vibe the fuck out" as they say
<sistpoty> hehe, bddebian got more karma than sabdfl
<ajmitch> tseng: hah nice
<ajmitch> bddebian has more karma than nearly everyone
<bddebian> ajmitch: No way.  I don't have as much as YOU
<dholbach> it seems that we need to switch to malone completely :)
<comadreja> ogra, is it ok, now ?
<ajmitch> dholbach: then we'd probably see 100K karma from you in a couple of weeks :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: from seb128
<dholbach> :)
<sivang> dholbach: why aren't we, if we're already bringing this up
<ajmitch> sivang: because malone still needs lots of love
<dholbach> sivang: we will, but not before dapper
<ogra> comadreja, i know you were approved, but i need to find the right irc log, else mdz wont belive me
<ajmitch> ogra: I can find it
<dholbach> and because of what ajmitch said :)
<dholbach> brb
<sistpoty> 473: too much karma ;)
<ogra> ajmitch, could you mail a link to it to mdz with a note ?
* dholbach <- dogwalk
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> 08:16 < sabdfl> i guess that's 3 out of 3 :-)
<ajmitch> 08:16 < siretart> which is near impossible ;)
<ajmitch> 08:16 < mdz> comadreja: welcome to the team
<ogra> ajmitch, got the date for that ?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> --- Day changed Wed Jul 27 2005
<ajmitch> so jul 26 in UTC
<ogra> thanls a lot :)
<comadreja> :) thanks
* ajmitch needs to get back to fixing
<ajmitch> I feel like I've been slacking
<ajmitch> wb dholbach
<dholbach> :)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-02
<LaserJock> hi guys
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> what a weekend
<LaserJock> FLOSS is sometimes a weird and frustrating place
<BazziR> LaserJock: what happened?
<LaserJock> some stuff
<LaserJock> kinda hard to explain
<LaserJock> but a fair amount of people got mad at me
<BazziR> do it to get it off your mind, that surely helps
<LaserJock> and I've closed my first attempt at FLOSS development
<no0tic> on dapper I used ipkungfu, but here on edgy it doesn't work, when I try to start it, it exits with bash errors, probably the script is wrong?
<LaserJock> didn't even make a first release
<no0tic> sorry, probably this is a devel chan...
<BazziR> I just started my first FLOSS attempt
<BazziR> I hope it will work
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's unfortunate
<LaserJock> no0tic: you probably want to look for an already file bug and if you don't find one report it
<no0tic> LaserJock, on launchpad.net is ok?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> ajmitch: it is, I sure didn't want it to turn out bad
<no0tic> LaserJock, ok, filed
<minghua> LaserJock: that's okay, the first attempt usually fails :-)
<minghua> LaserJock: sorry to hear you having a frustrated weekend though
<LaserJock> if it was just me it wouldn't be so bad
<LaserJock> but Edubuntu has been attacked a lot as well
<crimsun> LaserJock: RE: gallium?
<crimsun> (oliver's forwarded e-mail to e-d)
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> I've been emailing and IRC'ing for 2 days now
<crimsun> the 8th OSI layer, stubborn people.
<BazziR> :o
<LaserJock> the funny thing is, I've spent more time cleaning up this mess then on the actual project
<ivoks> hm... why do you care at all? edubuntu choosed another program; some people aren't happy with that; so what? :)
<LaserJock> because I respect their project and what they do for the Linux community
<ajmitch> because 'some people' can be very vocal & disruptive
<LaserJock> and they were spreading misinformation about Edubuntu
<crimsun> imagine if upstream cups decided that everything ubuntu has done was worth nitpicking and maligning
<ivoks> lol... well, that happend :)
<crimsun> they seem to have calmed somewhat, though
* ajmitch wonders who bastian grupe is..
* BazziR <-
<ajmitch> replying to a bug I filed: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/63349
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63349 in Ubuntu "Request for inclusion of new package (murrine)" [Undecided,Needs info] 
<BazziR> oh thats you?
<ajmitch> BazziR: I really didn't need to add a package I'd just made to that wiki page :)
<BazziR> sorry.
<BazziR> but I asked in advance if to reject and I got an ack :)
<ajmitch> from who?
<BazziR> uh
<BazziR> slomo i think
<ivoks> crimsun: if you ignore them, they give up
<ajmitch> no, I see it - it was hobbsee
<ajmitch> I'll talk to her later..
<BazziR> oh, ok
<BazziR> now that I know your real name it wont happen again :)
* ajmitch wonders whether hobbsee even looked at the bug
<BazziR> yeah i guess she didnt or just read the title.
* ajmitch mutters
<crimsun> woo, go ajmitch. I was just going to submit my own gtk2-engines-murrine (since Xubuntu is considering it)
<crimsun> either Murrina-GT4 or Murrina-Gilouche is a candidate
<ajmitch> crimsun: you can follow up on the bug then :)
<crimsun> now subbed :)
<ajmitch> looks like I have to follow up on the copyright issue, which is annoying
<gnomefreak> whos is matthias klose?
<tseng> gnomefreak: doko
<gnomefreak> ah
<minghua> ubotu needs a "who is who" feature
<tseng> thats what /whois minghua is for
<tseng> assuming you are nice enough to set a real name
<tseng> which most all developers are
<minghua> tseng: but the other way around doesn't work, like both gnomefreak and ajmitch just asked in this channel
<minghua> tseng: From real name to IRC nick, that is
<jldugger> just look it up in launchpad. launchpad is like facebook for geeks
<tseng> i guess
<tseng> I just know
<tseng> there are only 30 some core-dev members
<gnomefreak> that would be too big a data base for ubotu i think
<tseng> what, known ubuntu memberS?
<tseng> its under 200
<minghua> ubotu can just check the launchpad, can't he?  just like what he does with bug numbers or package names
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about can just check the launchpad, can't he?  just like what he does with bug numbers or package names - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<tseng> he *could*
<tseng> tell seveas if you think its that useful
<tseng> i have all the maps in my head
<tseng> you could, too
<minghua> tseng: sure, I'll ask
<minghua> I may look at the code myself, actually
<gnomefreak> i would file a bug about it
<minghua> because that would be handy for other channels I hang out, too
<gnomefreak> since he tells us to do that
<minghua> bug #63457, there you go
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63457 in ubuntu-bots "Please add feature to match real name to IRC nick (and vice versa)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63457
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
<LaserJock> holy cow
<LaserJock> I found yet another list I'm discussed on
<minghua> lol
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: link?
<Fujitsu> Of course. What list could leave you out? You're too Ubuntuholic to be left out of any list.
* tseng discusses LaserJock on ubuntu-mono
<LaserJock> I'm on edubuntu-devel, blue-obelisk and  kde-edu-devel
<LaserJock> those are the ones I know of so far
<LaserJock> plus the ~100 hate mails ogra got :/
<Fujitsu> Gallium-related?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> ~50 blog comments
<Fujitsu> Yeah, they really don't seem to like you guys for that.
<LaserJock> The thing is, I hadn't even worked much on Gallium
<LaserJock> nobody cares about edubuntu-menus
<LaserJock> or MOTU Science stuff
<LaserJock> I just dared to start working on a GTK periodic table and all hell breaks loose ;-)
<minghua> what did ogra say to get 100 hate mails?
<LaserJock> nothing
<LaserJock> it was because of me
<LaserJock> he had nothing to do with it
<LaserJock> s/me/Gallium/
<LaserJock> anyway, the storm will pass
<LaserJock> I just feel ... like it's all my fault and I never want to work on FLOSS again
<LaserJock> but that too will pass, I hope
<LaserJock> anyway, enough about that
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: how's MOTU Science looking? besides broken maxima stuff
<LaserJock> boy did I kill the party in here or what
* minghua was just reading the mails on edubuntu-devel
<minghua> and saw poor ogra getting hammered
<LaserJock> hmm, how do I search for channels again?
<minghua> "/list #channel-name" is what I use
<Hawkwind> LaserJock: /msg chanserv list *search-term*  Make sure you use the *'s
<LaserJock> ah yeah
<zul> LaserJock: ogra got some threats on his health ie we will find where you live blah blah blah
<LaserJock> zul: really? over this?
<zul> yeah he was saying that yesterday i think or today dont remember
<LaserJock> oh man
<LaserJock> I feel terrible
<zul> i wouldnt worry about it, he is a big boy
<LaserJock> yes, but he had nothing to do with it
<LaserJock> my gosh, it's just software
<zul> heh thats what i said
<LaserJock> well, it looks like I'm going to try to learn some C++
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: you are mad
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if I'm really mad, perhaps
<LaserJock> I'm mad that they are attacking Edubuntu
<LaserJock> but I'm mostly sad right now
<LaserJock> hi bmonty!
<ryanakca> LaserJock: hmm... looking to start C++? try that book in the topic of ##C++... it looks good from what Ive seen of it...
<ryanakca> or go out and buy Acelerated C++ (I'm told it's THE best c++ book around)...
<LaserJock> thanks for the tips
<ryanakca> never seen it
* ryanakca whishes he knew C++
<LaserJock> I'm sort of not looking forward to learning it
<LaserJock> I haven't even learned Python very well
<ryanakca> I am...
<ryanakca> lol, we're in the same boat
<ryanakca> I can understand source code... but I can't write it...
* ryanakca 's scope of programming is HTML and CSS :P
<bmonty> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> oh bugger
<ryanakca> I've looked at C, Ruby, Python, PHP, C++... can't seem to stick with one for long though
<LaserJock> I'm stuck with Fortran and Python so far
<bmonty> ...two extremes in technology
<LaserJock> mhm
<ryanakca> Ruby is unbelievably simple from what I've seen
<ryanakca> lol
<ryanakca> http://poignantguide.net/ruby/
<LaserJock> somehow I keep trying to convince myself I'm really a software developer and not a chemist ;-)
<bmonty> LaserJock: is there much of a difference in the technical areas?
<bmonty> I'm a EE and I spend a lot of time coding
<bmonty> BTW, I noticed we have been working on similar things this weekend :)
<crimsun> ruby is ridiculous. I keep wanting to teach stuff in Java (to abide by our curriculum standards), but I end up using Ruby and Python
<LaserJock> bmonty: well, I'm an experimentalist
<LaserJock> if I was a theoretical chemist I'd say yes
<LaserJock> but I could do virtually all my work with very little computer interaction
<bmonty> LaserJock: you don't write code to run your lab instruments?
<LaserJock> bmonty: I do, but I'm the only one it the department that does
<LaserJock> because i like to
<LaserJock> I'm the only one that doesn't use LabView
<LaserJock> wow, this maxima debdiff is really strange
<LaserJock> what the heck did we do
<bmonty> LaserJock: looks like we have both been playing with wordpress :)
<LaserJock> where's your blog?
<bmonty> LaserJock: www.montynet.org
<LaserJock> haha
<bmonty> :)
<LaserJock> bmonty: I've even got drupal sorta started for my main site
<bmonty> cool
<LaserJock> and of course the domain
<bmonty> I decided to make wordpress my main site since it looks like it can do pretty much everything I want
<LaserJock> my first domain since I was like 14
<LaserJock> yeah, I debated about it, but I really wanted to seperate blog from site
<ryanakca> back... they had an interesting news clip playing on CBC :)
<bmonty> LaserJock: once I figured out how to integrate gallery into wordpress I completely ditched my old site
<ryanakca> LaserJock: chemist... chemist = pharmasist? or chemist = chemistry/science/research stuff?
* ryanakca hates having to think about the different vocabulary across the pond
<LaserJock> ryanakca: yeah, chemist = chemistry research
<ryanakca> ah, kk, so I take it your north american :)
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> perhaps I should correct that for the "silly" people
<LaserJock> what do they call chemists there
<LaserJock> I wonder
<ryanakca> no clue... like our vocabulary makes sense...
<ryanakca> flat vs apartment?
<ryanakca> crisp vs potato chip?
<bmonty> yeah I was going to say...probably the same thing in order to maximize confusion
<ryanakca> sweets vs candy?
* ryanakca tries to think of some more
<bmonty> loo vs toilet?
<ryanakca> yeah
<LaserJock> well, I think it makes sense to say that a chemist does chemistry
<LaserJock> so I'm a little unsure of what they call them
<ryanakca> bmonty: they call pharmasists drugists and chemists... depends what part of britain your in
<bmonty> same here
<bmonty> where I grew up, you get your stuff from the store in a "bag"
<bmonty> here you get it in a "sack"
<bmonty> here = midwest
<bmonty> Us
<LaserJock> heh, and lets not even get started on what Coca-Cola is ;-)
<ryanakca> you get stuff from the store in a grocery bag..
<ryanakca> Coca-Cola = Coke...
<bmonty> I did a big double take the first time someone asked me "would you like a sack?"
<ryanakca> noname coke imitations = cola
<ryanakca> pepsi = pepsi... to me at least
<bmonty> heh...any carbonated beverage (with the exception of beer) is a coke in the south
<LaserJock> pop vs. soda vs. cok
<ryanakca> lol
<crimsun> actually, no.
<LaserJock> for me it was always pop
<bmonty> crimsun: you are in Texas, right?
<crimsun> we're extremely specific when it comes to soda, i.e., people will kill you if they ask for a coke and you bring a pepsi
<crimsun> bmonty: N.C.
<LaserJock> sure
<bmonty> crimsun: must be your part then....in Alabama they look at you weird if you ask for anything else
<LaserJock> but some people coke=any soda
<ryanakca> soda = soda water, ginger ale and stuff like that, pop = root beer, crush, club soda, etc. cola = coke, pepsi, noname imitations
<bmonty> of course that might be just because it is Alabama
<crimsun> bmonty: right, and it's even different in GA, SC, TN, FL, ...
<ryanakca> coke is dark, and made by coca-cola. pepsi != coke. cola != coke
<bmonty> ryanakca: you guys drive on the wrong side of the road...I'd fix that before the vocabulary for drinks :)
<ryanakca> bmonty: right side of the road = wrong side of the road?
<ryanakca> heh, people in the UK drive on the wrong side of the road...
* ryanakca likes being offtopic in an ontopic channel
<zul> crimsun: isnt it called pop?
<crimsun> hah
<LaserJock> zul: of course
<ryanakca> Toadstool: heh, never knew you spoke french... after 5 times of massive ping everybody in a chanelling pingdom, people tend to be in a bad mood
<Toadstool> hehe
<ryanakca> hence my 'I recommend 'rm -fr /' to trolls' comment :P
<Toadstool> 'evening everybody
* ryanakca stops procrastinating and goes to bed
<Toadstool> g'night then
<ajmitch> afternoon
* ajmitch is finally back after fighting with broken network cabling
<Toadstool> :)
<LaserJock> bummer ajmitch
* Toadstool still struggling with git, bcm43xx, dscape, etc.
<imbrandon> moins all
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock
<Toadstool> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> ello Toadstool
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> hiya ajmitch
<imbrandon> welp i guess we find out tomarrow whom is sponsored to the dev summit ;)
* imbrandon is looking forward to it
<LaserJock> man, maxima takes forever to compile, no wonder people don't want to work on it ;-)
<Toadstool> heh
<ajmitch> yay, getting a free DSL upgrade
<imbrandon> ajmitch, nice
<ajmitch> should be around about 6Mbps/1Mbps after this
<ajmitch> depending on how close I am to exchange
<imbrandon> very cool , thats about what i have
<imbrandon> i love it
<ajmitch> I currently have 3.5/512
<imbrandon> nice
<ajmitch> with a 20GB cap
<ajmitch> cap will be 30GB in the upgrade
<ajmitch> still quite low
<imbrandon> mine is advetised at 8/1 i actually get about 6/768
<imbrandon> with no cap though
<imbrandon> yea the cap is what kills yall ( au / nz )
<imbrandon> imho
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> meils from anywhere
* StevenK has a 16Gb limit and doesn't go anywhere near it.
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> s/meils/miles/
<imbrandon> StevenK, wow cool
* ajmitch should not get distracted by trivial things like work
<StevenK> It helps that downloads from midnight to midday aren't counted.
<ajmitch> StevenK: I share the connection with 4 others
<ajmitch> and I don't have an off-peak download time
<ajmitch> yay, xen 3.0.3~rc1
<imbrandon> StevenK, ahh thats nice ( m to m )
<Plug> ajmitch: which ISP?
<imbrandon> makes it at leaste better
<ajmitch> Plug: maxnet
<Plug> I changed from them to qsi.  Who are about 1/2 the speed :(
<imbrandon> ahhh new xen ;( /me wants to play with it ....
<ajmitch> Plug: ah, shame - apparantly telecon have finally opened things up a bit more
<Plug> yeah
<Plug> I can change again
<Plug> I'd go to xnet myself
<ajmitch> Plug: why'd you switch?
<Plug> -> #ubuntu-nz
<lastnode> imbrandon, for the l18n of Upstream, is there a prefferred to Ubuntu py library?
<imbrandon> lastnode, hum not sure, i'm sure there is but i dont know it, look at the ubiguity kde frontend
<imbrandon> its in py and i18l stuff
<lastnode> cheers
<imbrandon> err i18n
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> is there a local AU mirror you can use StevenK  that dont count to your cap either ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: Nope, which is a pity.
<imbrandon> i've seen that alot, that places that do have caps tend to mirror quite a bit of stuff uncapped
<imbrandon> wow yea that sucks
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<ajmitch> ah, Hobbsee...
<LaserJock> what the?!?!?!
* ajmitch gets pitchforks & torches ready
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ?!?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: what now?
<LaserJock> I just rebuilt maxima in my edgy pbuilder and it works!
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's good, perhaps it was built against old libraries?
<crimsun> now now, be gentle, ajmitch
<imbrandon> heya crimsun
<LaserJock> perhaps, but I don't know what
<crimsun> 'lo imbrandon
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: bug 63449
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63449 in dapper-backports "Gcompris is out of date on Ubuntu Dapper - please backport ver. 7.4" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63449
<ajmitch> sorry, not that one
* ajmitch looks up the bug number..
<LaserJock> oh, that's a good one though
<ajmitch> bug 63349
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63349 in Ubuntu "Request for inclusion of new package (murrine)" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63349
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon ajmitch
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I have a complaint..
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: do you now?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: yes
<ajmitch> you said that bug should be rejected
<Hobbsee> oops
<ajmitch> naughty Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> i thought it was in the wrong place
<ajmitch> you never read the bug
<Hobbsee> point
<ajmitch> don't tell people to reject things when you don't even bother to read it :P
<Hobbsee> fine, you do it,  i took a guess
<ajmitch> I filed it
<ajmitch> I'm hardly going to reject a bug I filed, am I?
<Plug> https://launchpad.net/products/dapper-backports/+bug/58544
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58544 in dapper-backports "clamav 0.88.4" [High,Fix released] 
<Plug> so - where was the fix released to?
<imbrandon> Plug, probably dapper-backports from the looks of it
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: okay, point.
<Plug> imbrandon: yeah, sure: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper-backports/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz doesnt mention it :)
<imbrandon> Plug, ahh ok, i was just going off the title ;)
<imbrandon> Plug, lemme poke arround , one sec
<Plug> imbrandon: cheers
<crimsun> Plug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=
<crimsun> 2nd page, actually
<Plug> crimsun: that means it is still sitting in the queue to build?
<crimsun> no, binary NEW
<crimsun> they've already built
<imbrandon> Plug, thats the NEW queue for binary
<imbrandon> yea what crimsun said
<Plug> How do things move from NEW to archive?
<crimsun> admin accepts
<imbrandon> Plug, on tuesdays and fridays archive admins go through and approve them
<Plug> right - makes sense. cheers to you both!
<LaserJock> Tuesdays? I thought it was Thursday
<LaserJock> accept all the crack at the end of the week ;-)
<imbrandon> hum tue afaik, i might have to lookup the email
<imbrandon> hehe
<Plug> Can I DL from the build queue?
<ajmitch> nope
<LaserJock> hmm, Package cache file corrupted
<LaserJock> what fixes that?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, apt-get clean possibly ?
<imbrandon> or s/clean/autoclean/
<tuxmaniac> Someone here told me something?
<tuxmaniac> I got dc
<tuxmaniac> disconnected I mean
<LaserJock> hmm, I already did autoclean
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: you didnt miss anything
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hum , its it where apt-get segfaults right away ?
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee> Any suggestions?
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: no, but i dont know what you're after
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i had that a few days ago, dunno what causes it, the only way i could fix it was to download a apt-get deb and downgrade then reupgrade ( apt-get dist-upgrade )
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee> I upgraded to edgy
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i never did figure it out the cause
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee> but ubuntu-desktop
<tuxmaniac> got removed and does not seem to have got installed
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it's not a problem
<LaserJock> it just gives me a warning
<LaserJock> eveything works fine
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ahh mine was segfaulting, might be a diffrent issue
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: ahh.  with apt-get, or with the update manager?
<tuxmaniac> I tried to manually install ubuntu-desktop but says it depends on xorg and xorg is not gonna be installed
<tuxmaniac> apt-get
<minghua> I've seen that apt bug
<tuxmaniac> :|
<StevenK> Try to manually install xorg
<minghua> something about your /var/cache/apt/*.bin cache files
<tuxmaniac> sudo apt-get install xorg?
<imbrandon> sudo apt-get install xorg
<minghua> move them out of way and try apt-get again
<tuxmaniac> looks like that.. it says now liggl1-mesa-dri needs to be installed but is not.. Broken packages
<Hobbsee> then keep going thru till you find what's broken
<tuxmaniac> Can I do a apt-get -f install ?
<LaserJock> ok, so do you think I could file a bug for a rebuild or do I need to upload a Xbuild1?
<Plug> New version specified (0.88.4-1ubuntu1~dapper1) is less than the current version number (0.88.4-1ubuntu1)
<Plug> I thought ~ was designed for fixing that?
<LaserJock> Plug: I believe so
<crimsun> 0.88.4-1ubuntu1 doesn't exist in dapper
<Plug> No, I'm backporting from edgy
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so ~ works
<Plug> Just not today
<Plug> I'm sure this has worked before
<crimsun> 0.88.4-1ubuntu1 is in edgy. Are you trying to install the dapper backport in an edgy chroot or something?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what you're doing
<imbrandon> Plug, that statement is correct, that way when you backoport something and then its uopgraded to the "real" version in edgy it will be replaced
<Plug> I've got the source and I'm backporting it myself.  dpkg -x *.dsc; dch -v version~dapper1; dpkg-buildpackage.
<LaserJock> k
<imbrandon> and dch -v is giving you problems ?> manualy edit it , dch might not be smart yet
<crimsun> well, right, so you'd have to adjust the previous changelog entr{ies,y}
<imbrandon> but apt knows
<Plug> Thats a plausible answer :)
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> so now I need to figure out how to fix maxima in dapper
<lastnode> imbrandon, we're having a meeting tomorrow (Monday 2330UTC), and you're invited. im sure you're busy, just wanted to let you know. agenda is here - http://upstreamdev.org/wiki/Meetings/Developer/20061002
<imbrandon> lastnode, sure, i'll try to make it , cant promis but i'll do my best
<lastnode> sure, just a heads up, mate.
<bddebian> LaserJock: Did it get fixed in Edgy?
<LaserJock> bddebian: yes
<bddebian> LaserJock: From a newer version or did someone figure it out?
<LaserJock> I just rebuild from source
<LaserJock> I have no idea what happened
<minghua> bascially Works for LaserJock(TM) :-)
<LaserJock> .deb from repos doesn't work, .deb I rebuild from source works
<bddebian> Hmm
<LaserJock> actually
<LaserJock> we did get a new maxima and gcl
<LaserJock> since last I tried
<crimsun> a new gcl version was just released, too
<LaserJock> I don't think i'ts maxima
<LaserJock> *it's
<LaserJock> the new maxima version was a NMU for an automake thing
<imbrandon> sudo dpkg -i ibm-j2re1.5_1.5.0_powerpc.deb
<imbrandon> gah
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> crimsun: I found this, "Fix socket write error" in gcl 2.6.7-21
<bddebian> Oohh, that could do it
<LaserJock> yeah, that's what I'm thinking
<LaserJock> I think i'll try backporting gcl to dapper and rebuild maxima
<Fujitsu> Aha, that does look very suspicious.
<LaserJock> what I don't get is why it worked in Debian
<crimsun> did all previous pbuilt (dapper) versions work?
<LaserJock> previous to what?
<Fujitsu> 'cause Debian's crazy and has this great aura which ensures that everything works.
<crimsun> LaserJock: meaning all versions you've pbuilt
<LaserJock> crimsun: this is the first one I've tried that worked
<minghua> hmm, pbuild is a verb now...?
<zakame> hmm the FOSS is working :P
<zakame> hi all anyway :)
<Fujitsu> minghua, has been for years.
<crimsun> minghua: for space-saving reasons ;)
<crimsun> LaserJock: ah.
<LaserJock> dapper is still broken, afaik
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<minghua> Fujitsu, crimsun: :-)
<zakame> yo bddebian
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so I'm just rebuilding dapper's version with what's in the repos
<LaserJock> that should not work
<LaserJock> then I'll backport gcl and try again
<LaserJock> sound reasonable?
<bddebian> yep
<minghua> sounds good (especially when you are looking for is "should not work" :-)
<LaserJock> good thing I didn't dist upgrade my last dapper machine ;-)
<LaserJock> ok, not working upon rebuild
<imbrandon> thats a good thing(tm) right ?
<LaserJock> yep
<imbrandon> crimsun, have you ever used java-package ?
<LaserJock> at least it's still broken like I thought ;-)
<crimsun> yes
<imbrandon> ahh the ibm java packages in plf dont have a source package but they say they are buildt with java-package
<imbrandon> is that some autocrack like checkinstall ?
<minghua> java-package doesn't require source
<minghua> it's better than checkinstall, more like equivs
<crimsun> java-package is far more sane
<imbrandon> e.g. This package has been automatically created with java-package (0.27).
<imbrandon> for the ibm-java jre
<imbrandon> hum , i wonder if the ibm license will allow it to be in multiverse
<minghua> java-package has sane control file and {pre,post}{inst,rm} scripts
<crimsun> we need 0.28.
<crimsun> [http://packages.qa.debian.org/j/java-package/news/20060816T001750Z.html] 
<bddebian> Or we could just purge *java* from the archives :)
<imbrandon> bddebian, heh
<imbrandon> crimsun, looks syncable
<crimsun> being native, yeah.
<imbrandon> i guess i'm still kinda wondering why its needed/used to make the ibm packages
<imbrandon> and do we have a list like debian-legale to ask about putting ibm java in multiverse ( or maybe -commercial )
<Fujitsu> Or can we put Java in /dev/null?
<Fujitsu> That's a more appropriate place.
<bddebian> heh
<zakame> most appropriate?
<crimsun> honestly it would be lovely if ibm's jdk1.5 were in dapper-commercial
<LaserJock> yeah
* minghua would be happy to see java for ppc too
<ThiefOfBaghdad> Ok. My X is screwed :D
<ThiefOfBaghdad> I am on irssi
<ThiefOfBaghdad> Can someone say how to recitfy this problem
<ThiefOfBaghdad> The error is it says X has been build for 2.6.15
<ThiefOfBaghdad> but the running version is 2.6.17
<ThiefOfBaghdad> and X window is unable to boot up
<Toadstool> yeeha! bcm43xx 0 - Toadstool 1
<bddebian> heh
<Toadstool> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<ThiefOfBaghdad> bddebian: grrr.. Laughing at me?? :|
<bddebian> ThiefOfBaghdad: No, Toadstool :)
<ThiefOfBaghdad> bddebian: Any solution for me ??? :D
<ThiefOfBaghdad> No X and the error is up
<bddebian> ThiefOfBaghdad: No, I'm outta of the loop lately, sorry :-(
<Toadstool> ThiefOfBaghdad: have you asked on #ubuntu?
<ThiefOfBaghdad> Toadstool: its for Dapper right?
<ThiefOfBaghdad> Whats for ubuntu+1 ?
<Toadstool> #ubuntu-testing no?
<Toadstool> at least there is a #ubuntu-fr-testing chan :p
<ThiefOfBaghdad> Toadstool: bah
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<imbrandon> gnight bddebian
<LaserJock> hmm, gcl takes forever to build
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> I just *had* to pick gcl and maxima to build
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, that's fortunate.
<Fujitsu> People should be dissuaded from using LISP as much as possible.
<LaserJock> you know, one of the first merges I ever did was wxwidgets2.6
<Fujitsu> And making the compiler take forever to compile is helping that cause.
<LaserJock> I should have known then
<LaserJock> hmm, I guess it's probably been a little less then 20 min.
<LaserJock> oh wait
<ajmitch> oh good, the debian dinstall run happened today
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> 1 hr and 20 mins ;-)
<minghua> 20 min is a long build?
<LaserJock> I miss read the clock
<minghua> that's better
<minghua> my package takes 20 mins to build on my machine
<minghua> (although it's usually 3-5 mins on fast buildds)
<zakame> which pkg?
<minghua> zakame: scim
<zakame> ah
<minghua> I have a 1GHz AMD Athlon by the way
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> if I was doing it on my 1.3GHz P4 it'd take much longer
<LaserJock> thank goodness it's the weekend and I can use my laptop
<LaserJock> but then I need to rebuild maxima with this gcl
* zakame ought to spare a partition for 6.10 beta
<minghua> hmm, time to put my packaging envrionments to a faster machine, it seems
<minghua> but then again, m68k builld spends 9 hours to build scim, so I'm not complaining for what I have now :-P
<LaserJock> ouch
<minghua> LaserJock: It may happen to be a slow buildd, I don't check buildd log frequently
<LaserJock> hmm, what is a good way to build .debs withing a pbuilder login?
<LaserJock> dpkg-buildpackage in unpacked source?
<LaserJock> do I need fakeroot for that as I'm logged into the chroot as root
<Lathiat> dpkg-buildpackage yeh
<Lathiat> fakeroot only needed if your not otherwise root
<LaserJock> hmm, I found a script the other day to get build deps when logged in too but now I can't find it
<Lathiat> /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends :)
<LaserJock> ah thanks
<LaserJock> hmm, now this isn't making sense
<LaserJock> do I run pbuilder-satisfydepends from within the chroot?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, why cant you just run "apt-get build-dep package" in the pbuilder login / chroot ?
<LaserJock> well, it isn't necessarily in the apt cache
<imbrandon> pbuilder login has network access afaik
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, yes, it does.
<LaserJock> no
<imbrandon> LaserJock, umm why not ?
<LaserJock> my point is, the package I"m trying to build might not be in the apt-repo
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ahh then in that case i just install them by hand in the chroot
<imbrandon> never seen an automatic way, myself
<LaserJock> this command is supposed to do it for me
<LaserJock> I used it the other day
<LaserJock> but now I'm confused
<LaserJock> must be late
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> 1am
<imbrandon> well 11pm for you
<LaserJock> mhm
<imbrandon> hrm its what 6am utc ?
<Fujitsu> Yeh.
<imbrandon> heh i'm getting used to useing this laptop
<LaserJock> ok, of it goes
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, did you get maxima sorted out?
<imbrandon> got some external speakers and a mouse hooked to it and i'm good ;)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, i think thats what hs is working on
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: working on it
<nixternal> imbrandon: are you using osx?
<Lathiat> ah ydh need to install gcl to compile maxima?
<Fujitsu> Ah, goodo.
<LaserJock> gcl too like almost 2 hrs to build
<imbrandon> nixternal, no ubuntu
<Lathiat> i've done that manually perviously
<nixternal> ahh
<nixternal> k
<imbrandon> nixternal, ubnutu on the ibook
<nixternal> need someone with that stoopid osx browser to look at my blog layout
<imbrandon> i cant use osx to do real work hehe i just like it for medioa
<nixternal> rastafari or whatever it is called ;)
<imbrandon> safari , and i use firefox on osx anyhow
<imbrandon> when i do login to osx
<nixternal> people with IE get kicked when they try to look at my blog now ;)
<Fujitsu> nixternal, hahah, good idea.
<nixternal> my layout is like OK, but it doesn't do it for me just yet
<nixternal> http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org
<imbrandon> i dont want to kick them from mine but a big firefox download page redirect would be nice
<nixternal> well, they don't get kicked, but they get a page where they can download Firefox, look at Konqi, Epiphany, Ubuntu *all of um...Open Source and FSF info
* Fujitsu must get around to starting up a blog at some point.
<imbrandon> ;)
<nixternal> i should embed a trojan in the antiie.html page ;)
<nixternal> i must get my own domain at some point ;)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, if / when you do i can do the hosting for you
<imbrandon> if you wish
<imbrandon> i have quite a lot of extra bandwidth
<imbrandon> ;)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, I might take you up on that, but I've got the ubuntu.com.au server at my disposal, and it already hosts blogs for a few members of other LoCo teams...
<imbrandon> ;)
<Fujitsu> And I've been looking for a good domain, but fujitsu.* and williamgrant.* are pretty much all taken, unfortunately :(
<imbrandon> imfujitsu.com ;) lol just teasin
<Fujitsu> imwilliam!
<Fujitsu> Yay.
<Fujitsu> Or not.
<imbrandon> lol
<nixternal> haha
<Fujitsu> Hm, williamgrant.ca is available... Although they have restrictions on them (ie. you have to be a citizen or registered business), but I am a citizen anyway... Or fujitsu.id.au, or williamgrant.id.au...
<Fujitsu> But none of them are particularly great domains :(
<imbrandon> yea
* StevenK hugs his domain
* imbrandon hugs his too
<imbrandon> StevenK, whats yours ? i dident know you ran a site
<StevenK> wedontsleep.org
<Lathiat> heh
<imbrandon> ahh cool
<minghua> nice name
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee:
<tuxmaniac> Some one willing to share their gdm.conf file? I mean after an edgy upgrade? Looks like gdm is fscked up actually
<tuxmaniac> Booo hooooo.. On edgy
<tuxmaniac> X running
<LaserJock> \o/
<LaserJock> it works!!!
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ^^
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<Fujitsu> So the new gcl fixed it?
<LaserJock> yep
<Fujitsu> Hahah :)
<LaserJock> xmaxima and wxmaxima work fine
<Fujitsu> Woohoo.
<LaserJock> sooo
<Fujitsu> Now to convince people that that wants to be in -updates.
<LaserJock> we need to get maxima rebuilt in edgy
<Fujitsu> Do you want to do that, or shall I?
<LaserJock> I think we should be able to find the patch in gcl and apply it to dapper's gcl I think
<LaserJock> go for it
<Fujitsu> Hopefully...
<LaserJock> I need to go to bed
<Fujitsu> We're presuming it was the socket writing fix?
<Fujitsu> OK, so just maxima wants rebuilding?
<LaserJock> well, it's not a new upstream version
<Fujitsu> Not {w,}xmaxima?
<LaserJock> so maybe we can just grab the edgy version
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> maxima was having the problem
<Fujitsu> Thought so.
<Fujitsu> The proper gcl is in Edgy, I presume...
<Fujitsu> Ah, there.
<Fujitsu> The symptom of the maxima fault is a connection error, no?
<imbrandon> ahhhh food , bbiab
<imbrandon> whoop it got quiet in here
<zakame> wb dholbach
<imbrandon> moins dholbach
<zakame> yo imbrandon
<imbrandon> sup zakame
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey zakame, imbrandon!
<zakame> imbrandon: here pretty much learning C++
<zakame> picking it up again after 5 years
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> ok dinners cooked, brb
<LaserJock> oh man, dholbach is up? I need to go to bed
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: indeed
<imbrandon> heh
<dholbach> LaserJock:  and I was running already !!  :-)
<Fujitsu> What are my chances of getting numpy 1.0 in (it'll be released on the 17th of October >_<)? Almost 0, I'd presume, although the current version is 1.0rc1.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: depends on how many bugs were fixed
<Fujitsu> You're still up!?
<LaserJock> if the new upstream is mostly bug fixes and not a bunch of new features it stands a good chance
<LaserJock> going to be now
<LaserJock> 2:00am here
<Fujitsu> I believe it'll be all bug fixes.
<Fujitsu> Goodnight, although you said you were going to bed about 2 hours ago.
<LaserJock> did I?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I should have for sure
<Fujitsu> Well, you said you needed to go to bed 2:05 ago:
<Fujitsu> <LaserJock> I need to go to bed
<LaserJock> ugg
<LaserJock> that's bad
* StevenK wonders if Fujitsu's client doesn't timestamp messages.
<Fujitsu> It does, but it doesn't copy them.
<minghua> I think it's just LaserJock keep saying he needs to go to bed
<minghua> and Fujitsu didn't pick up the most recent one :-)
<Fujitsu> minghua, at 08:11:23?
<Fujitsu> Be back in a bit, dinner.
<minghua> Fujitsu: (my 3:07, UTC-0500) <LaserJock> oh man, dholbach is up? I need to go to bed
<minghua> hmm, dholbach, sorry for the highlight
<dholbach> minghua: that's part of LasterJock's and crimsun's race who can stay up longer :-/
<minghua> Hmm, numpy is already 1.0rc1 in debian/ubuntu, very nice
<xerxas> Hi
<crimsun> dholbach: bah.
<minghua> so crimsun won, I see
* dholbach hugs crimsun
* crimsun hugs dholbach 
<Fujitsu> minghua, that's the one I mentioned.
<Fujitsu> minghua, of course it's in Ubuntu, I made sure of that (it was a few days before Debian).
<Fujitsu> It was really bad timing, Debian released rc1 like a day after UniverseFreeze.
<minghua> Fujitsu: I don't know if it's really worth it
<Fujitsu> What's not worth it?
<minghua> Fujitsu: of course if you really want to spend time on that, nobody can say no
<minghua> Fujitsu: getting 1.0 release in edgy
<minghua> the time is too tight
<Fujitsu> It didn't take more than half an hour to do, and a number of people had requested it.
<minghua> Fujitsu: yeah, getting 1.0rc1 in is worth it
<minghua> Fujitsu: I am talking about 1.0 (scheduled to be released on 17th)
<Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
<tuxmaniac> heya gang
<zakame> yo tortoise_
<fatal__> please import the latest bandwidthd from debian unstable, the -6 version you currently have is broken.
<minghua> fatal__: is there a bug open?  if no, please file one
<minghua> fatal__: and thanks for reporting it to us
<minghua> (now that I see you are the Debian maintainer)
<minghua> Hmm, I am going to bed
<tortoise_> yo zakame
<minghua> if fatal__ responds, someone please help him filing a UVF exception request for bandwidthd
<minghua> I'll check tomorrow if I remember, and do it myself if no one else did
<minghua> good night everyone
<fatal__> I've written up a bug... submitting it now. Whats a UVF?
<azeem> fatal__: upstream version freeze
<fatal__> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/bandwidthd/+bug/63548
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63548 in bandwidthd "Please update to the latest version from Debian Unstable - Edgys -6 version is miserably broken." [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<azeem> that should be fine, it's not an upstream version change
<StevenK> Hum.
<StevenK>  /usr/sbin/airmon-ng from aircrack-ng is a #!/bin/sh, but it is full of bashisms.
* StevenK ponders a 243 line patch, versus a 2 line patch
<bddebian> Heya gang
<tuxmaniac> ok. Looks like I have figured out the problem
<tuxmaniac> Anybody around got this gnome-setings-daemon unable to load error when you enter the Edgy Desktop?
<phanatic> good afternoon
<jdong> what's the MOTU policy on deviating from upstream?
<jdong> for our acidrip packages, I'd like to change the default xvid options to more match the lavc ones
<jdong> (namely, take mplayer.hu's high-quality xvid recommendations)
<Riddell> jdong: if it's the best thing to do then deviation from upstream is fine
<jdong> Riddell: thanks for the advice. I'm still doing abit more testing on exactly how much encoding time this adds on, but so far it looks like it's well worth the gains
<xopher> How do I apply .diff.gz file to original tar.gz?
<Riddell> xopher: dpkg-source -x foo.dsc
<Riddell> which is in devscripts
<xopher> thanks
<xopher> uhm, dpkg-source: error: unrecognised file type - `linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17_2.6.17.5-6.1.diff.gz'
<jdong> ok, I've got the patch made for acidrip.... would a kind motu soul like to upload it for me?
<jdong> xopher: umm, *.dsc?
<xopher> jdong, I did it on the .dsc, but this is what I get
<jdong> xopher: that usually means your diff.gz file is corrupted
<xopher> ok, well Ill double check it
<bipolar> do motu handle backports in universe too or is that another group?
<jdong> bipolar: that's the backporters
<jdong> bipolar: (and you're looking at one :D )
<bipolar> woot!
<bipolar> need the new version of gnucash in there :)
<bipolar> I have a working version myself, created by a 3rd party
<jdong> got a few requests for it already...
<jdong> do you know if the edgy one builds in dapper?
<bipolar> but it took *forever* to find it
<bipolar> heh
<bipolar> jdong: I gave it a shot just with buildpackage, but the deps didn't match
<jdong> bipolar: can you give it a shot with prevu?
<bipolar> jdong: libgoffice is missing
<bipolar> prevu?
<jdong> bipolar: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=268687&highlight=prevu
<jdong> it's an automated backports compiler
<bipolar> ahh... cool
<bipolar> yeah. I'll give it a shot
<bipolar> jdong: btw, the person that created the debs I'm using now is kleeman on the forums.
<jdong> I'm not sure how he created the packages
<jdong> but only packages that build cleanly from edgy can be put in dapper-backports
<jdong> motu poke?
<LaserJock> is it possible to remove a version of a package from the repos?
<jdong> LaserJock: I've poked the archive admins about that before for backports... so I guess the answer is yes
<LaserJock> well, this would be in edgy Universe
<LaserJock> maybe I'll give it a shot
<jdong> well, I don't see why it would be any different for ubuntu-archive to flex their muscles in a different pocket :)
<Hawkwind> jdong: Why isn't prevu in Dapper ?
<jdong> Hawkwind: because I just wrote prevu over the weekend? :)
<Hawkwind> jdong: Oh!
<jdong> :)
<Hawkwind> jdong: So it'll eventually get into Ubuntu then I assume ?
<jdong> Hawkwind: if you want to fix my debianizing to be MOTU-compilant, I'd love to see it in universe
<jdong> I just dh_maked it enough that it works and doesn't look too broken
* jdong is no packaging whiz
<Hawkwind> Me neither.  I just tried it on a package real quick that I knew would build and it worked really great
<Hawkwind> Only thing I don't like about it is the package name tag is a bit long and actually puts 'prevu' into it.  Should somehow make that customizable for people who like to backport stuff for 3rd party repos maybe
<jdong> yeah, it's a wonderfully convenient tool :)
<jdong> well, it takes whatever deb-src repos you have listed in sources.list
<jdong> or, it can be used like pdebuild (run prevu with no arguments in dpkg-source -x'ed directory)
<jdong> it will also use its output debs directory as an APT repo, so you can build against previously prevu'ed packages
<jdong> that seems to me like 3rd parties should be able to effectively use it
<jdong> brb, time to look at what's cooking in kde :)
<Hawkwind> I happen to run the largest 3rd party repo for Mandriva and I do most of my stuff by backporting stuff from their Cooker(beta/unstable) branch to the latest stable.  I would love to use prevu for adding more Ubuntu stuff to my rpeo
<Hawkwind> My repo/site currently gets about 2 million hits per month :)
<jdong> that's cool
<jdong> and I don't doubt your figures at all
<jdong> when backports used to be on a private server, it got 25GB/min of downloads
<jdong> I couldn't keep up
<Hawkwind> Heh yeah.  Seems to be a big market for sure
<jdong> I'm personally very happy with prevu... it was time well spent for me
<jdong> now, people have an easy way of rolling their own backports
<Hawkwind> jdong: If I wanted to backport package 'foo' and it had a dep of 'bar' does prevu just build foo and then you have to build bar as well, or will it build everything at once ?
<jdong> you have to build bar first, run sudo prevu-update, then build foo
* bddebian just jumps off a cliff and ends it all
<Hawkwind> Ah ok.  Figured as much as it's probably best to do it that way
<jdong> bddebian: did you try another azureus or something?
<jdong> bddebian: since you decided to reveal that you're on, would you like to be my MOTU slave of the moment?
<Hawkwind> jdong: I assume if I tried to build foo which requires bar, the script would error and tell me ?
<jdong> :D
<jdong> Hawkwind: right. during dependency resolution, it will fail and notify you
<bddebian> jdong: I'm not sure I can, I am supposed to be "working".  What do you need?
<jdong> bddebian: a patch added to acidrip
<bddebian> jdong: You have the patch?
<Hawkwind> jdong: Awesome!  I built a package I new had no deps(that I didn't already have atleast) that I package all the time, xchat
<jdong> bddebian: bug 63595
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63595 in acidrip "acidrip should provide xvid defaults" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63595
<jdong> Hawkwind: glad to hear you like it. prevu uses pbuilder internally, which is build tool of choice for Ubuntu/Debian developers
<jdong> prevu builds packages in exactly the same way that the dapper-backports repository would
<bddebian> jdong: Test building now
<jdong> bddebian: thank you :)
* jdong will learn how to use dpatch one of these days
<bddebian> No, THANK YOU :-)
* jdong has trouble finding spare time :)
<bddebian> Oh, I didn't dpatch it, it's right in the source :-)
<jdong> hehe :)
<jdong> that works too
* jdong just went through 12 dvd rips over the weekend
<jdong> figured that I might make acidrip usable while I'm at it
<jdong> xvid from my experience is better than lavc's codec...
<bddebian> jdong: Now, wanna help me debug my Hurd problems? :)
<jdong> bddebian: I wish I knew anything about hurd :)
<bddebian> Me too :)
<jdong> now, to investigate/fix bug 63582....
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63582 in acidrip "Crop detection fails" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63582
<bddebian> jdong: Uploaded
<jdong> bddebian: thank you very much
<bddebian> jdong: I live to serve :)
<xopher> How can I generate a sha1 password?
<sladen> xopher: htpasswd -s ?
<xopher> thank you
<Hawkwind> jdong: http://pastebin.ulteo.us/128
<Hawkwind> jdong: What exactly is this supposed to mean ?
<jdong> Hawkwind: the actual build message further up
<jdong> Hawkwind: what you pastebined was after the build failed, the builder cleaning up after itself
<Hawkwind> Oh, got it.  Thanks
<joejaxx> imbrandon: are you there?
<Q-FUNK> siretart: are you sure you reported on the right package in bug#63617 ?
<Q-FUNK> Bug #63617
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63617 in upgrade-system "crash while removing packages" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63617
<Q-FUNK> hmm... typos r us
<siretart> Q-FUNK: ;)
<Q-FUNK> siretart: at least it seems to me that you reported on the wrong package...
<ajmitch> morning
<zul> hey
<Q-FUNK> siretart: or is there anything I missed in your report?
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: ping
<Gloubiboulga> hello LaserJock
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: I have a question for you
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: you merged goffice for edgy
<Gloubiboulga> yes
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: but did you know that you merged the Debian experimental version
<LaserJock> your changelog entry says unstable I believe
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, my changelog is wrong then
<LaserJock> but the version you merged is from experimental
<LaserJock> was there a reason for that?
<Gloubiboulga> Daniel asked me to pick the ezxperimental package
<LaserJock> grr, ok
<LaserJock> it breaks a package I'm trying to get into edgy
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, which package ?
<LaserJock> but if Daniel asked you to then I assume he had a reason
<LaserJock> gnome-chemisty-utils
<LaserJock> the author said that version of goffice is very unstable
<LaserJock> and it's been in experimental for like 4 months
<LaserJock> anyway, I just wondered what the motivation was and if that was indeed what you meant to do
<Gloubiboulga> I've not used goffice a lot actually
<Gloubiboulga> I was surprised too when Daniel started to merge the experimental package and I asked him if he was sure about this, and he was :)
<Q-FUNK> LaserJock: are you sue that chemistry supplies are not banned in USA?
<LaserJock> heh, yes
<LaserJock> I'm a chemist, we can get anything ;-)
<LaserJock> it's the biologists that have more problems
<Q-FUNK> oh?
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: sure, I don't do test on living subjects, I don't deal with toxins, or biohazards
<LaserJock> no DNA floating about
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> I just blast molecules with a laser
<Q-FUNK> nukes!  on a m***** snake!
<Q-FUNK> ^plane
<Q-FUNK> "thank you for buying 10kg of potassium nitrate and 2 litres of glycerin.  find the invoice attached.  yours, acme chemistry supplies LLC billing department"
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> we make a nerve gas used in WW I all the time
<ajmitch> how strict are the controls on some of that stuff?
<LaserJock> none
<LaserJock> it's a common synthetic chemistry compound
<ajmitch> doesn't surprise me
<LaserJock> there is no way to control stuff that tightly
<Q-FUNK> afak most of the items can alreayd be found as industrial-grade cleaning agents at janitoring supplies or as fetilizers.
<LaserJock> we have to account for the stuff we buy and get rid of
<LaserJock> but that's mostly for budget people
<LaserJock> and the EPA
<LaserJock> making sure we aren't polluting the rivers
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: exactly
<Q-FUNK> funny how small research labs have to obey EPA regulations and 2 miles down the road a factory is killing all the oxygen in the river.
<LaserJock> well, they get hit too, but they like to threaten us a lot
<LaserJock> tbh, our medium size uni does produce a whole lot of nasty stuff
<Q-FUNK> labs are comparatively small.  little legal budget and no apparent immediate ROI from the layman's point f view.  meanwhile, factories pocket fortunes and employ whole towns.
<Q-FUNK> still, it sad how research labs try to do everything by the book and yet factories that produce waste in much bigger volumes don't.
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure my uni produces the most pollutants and uses the most electricity of any organization in the city
<Q-FUNK> yikes
<LaserJock> but I know what you mean
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's quite likely here as well
<LaserJock> my building alone costs something like $300,000 in heat/electricity  per month
<ajmitch> ouch
<LaserJock> they have been shutting down all non-essential buildings on campus for 2-3 weeks at Christmas
* ajmitch hates to think what costs the uni here has
<LaserJock> saves them close to a $1milllion
<LaserJock> I think my uni  also uses the most water of any organization
<siretart> Q-FUNK: oh, indeed. probably update-manager would have been a better choice. sorry for the noise
<Q-FUNK> siretart: I was just wondering where all those logs were coming from, but then I noticed the python bits.
<AnAnt> a problem in multiverse I think
<siretart> they are indeed from update-manager
<AnAnt> there's a game called uqm
<siretart> AnAnt: even if, update-manager should just break in that case
<AnAnt> the repos has version 0.5.0-2ubuntu1 of that game
<AnAnt> yet, that game depends on uqm-content (>=0.5) which is not available in the repos
<AnAnt> siretart: huh ?
<siretart> AnAnt: the result after this crash was a partial upgrade :(
<AnAnt> siretart: btw, I did apt-get update, didn't use update-manager
<Q-FUNK> siretart: dpkg -a --configure
<Q-FUNK> ?
<siretart> Q-FUNK: yes, this configured some packages. I needed to restart with apt-get upgrade
<AnAnt> siretart: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=uqm&searchon=names&subword=1&version=edgy&release=all
<siretart> AnAnt: yes, this is a bug in uqm related packages. anyway, update-manager shouldn't break because of unmet deps
<AnAnt> no, it doesn't break, it holds uqm to old version
<siretart> AnAnt: hm. I noticed that it missed to upgrade a lot of unrealted packages
<AnAnt> siretart: it ?
<siretart> AnAnt: update-manager
<AnAnt> bddebian: hide
<AnAnt> siretart: maybe
<AnAnt> gotta go
<gnomefreak> who is the person to talk to about nvidia?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-03
<Q-FUNK> what nick does Dennis Kaarsmaker use on IRC?
<tseng> Seveas
<tseng> wait
<tseng> yes.
<Seveas> correct 
<tseng> there he is.
<Seveas> Q-FUNK, it's Kaarsemaker by the way :
<Q-FUNK> oh, sorry :)
<Q-FUNK> Seveas: I just wanted to know what's going on with usplash-theme-ubuntu
<Seveas> not much atm
<Seveas> I'm not on the art team, so can't tell
<Q-FUNK> Bug #61126
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61126 in usplash-theme-ubuntu "fails to set the alternative to replace the testcard" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61126
<Seveas> that's solved in usplash -31
<Q-FUNK> ah
<Q-FUNK> Seveas: weren't you on Atari before, btw?
<Seveas> no
* Q-FUNK renables splash and runs update-grub, then reboots...
<Q-FUNK> Seveas: ok, I indeed get something that spalshes.  no boot messages at all, though.
<Seveas> Q-FUNK, that's expected behaviour
<Q-FUNK> then if i remove the quiet boot option, I get messages, but the message box is over where the progress bar is, so they both try to paint over each other
<Q-FUNK> it wasn't the behavior until usplash 0.3 :)
<Seveas> that's not normal -- they should be confined to their own space. COuld you perhaps make a photo of it?
<Q-FUNK> i wished, but no digi cam here
<Q-FUNK> however, I got a call from one user today thta he sees the same thing
<Q-FUNK> it's only now that i realized what he was describing
<Q-FUNK> his host runs in 1024x768,  while mine runs in 800x600
<Q-FUNK> the message box is off-center and partialy overlaps the progress bar
<Seveas> ah
<Seveas> that's my bad - but I won't fix it
<Seveas> the theme will change drastically
<Q-FUNK> how so?
<Q-FUNK> isn't it just  a metter of changing the positioning of the box in the .h file that defines the theme settings?
<jdong> bddebian: would you like to help me with acidrip again?
<jdong> I'll also extend this offer to any free MOTU :D
<sivang> sladen: what just happend ? :-)
<sivang> sladen: suddenly DNS was lost
<Seveas> Q-FUNK, .c file actually, but yes
<Seveas> I don't want to make a pointless upload though
<Q-FUNK> Seveas: why?  the theme is expected to change again soon?
<Seveas> <Seveas> the theme will change drastically
<Seveas> I just said that ;)
<Seveas> the current theme is a 3-minute rushjob
<Q-FUNK> Seveas: ambiguous sentence. :)  it could have meant thta fixing the C file would have wreaked havoc :)
<Seveas> heh, ok
<imbrandon> moins all
<jdong> imbrandon: can I borrow your upload rights for a sec :)
<jdong> imbrandon: I've already made a debdiff for your convenience....
<jdong> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/acidrip/+bug/63582
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63582 in acidrip "Crop detection fails" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<imbrandon> jdong, sure i'll take a look, one sec
<imbrandon> jdong, i have no issue with the upload but i'm gonna do it a tad diffrent
<imbrandon> instead of patching the source directly i'm gonna make it a dpatch ( as thats what the package uses already )
<imbrandon> jdong, ^^
<jdong> imbrandon: sure, that sounds good
<jdong> imbrandon: I had bddebian do another one-liner patch earlier, and he just patched the source
<jdong> so I was going by his example :D
<imbrandon> hehe jdong no worries, depends on the package, if there is a patch system in place the prefered method is to use it rather than patching the source
<jdong> imbrandon: one of these days I'll take the time to read up on dpatch....
<imbrandon> so the one bddebian did earlier might have been correct
<imbrandon> for that package
<jdong> meh, I doubt a new upstream release of acidrip is coming anytime soon anyway
<jdong> :)
<imbrandon> well it makes it easy to send upstearm too, and if it will be a while untill the new version all the better as the longer it is the more likely you'll forget the changes and a patch is easy to isolate ;)
<imbrandon> anyhow no worries, i already did it, just was letting ya know ;)
<cahuez> hiya there; looking for re-config the xorg server..
<imbrandon> cahuez, "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" but #ubuntu is for support
<NthDegree> or #kubuntu or #xubuntu ;)
<cahuez> you mean this is the right place for troubleshooting..? :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<NthDegree> cahuez: this is NOT the right place for troubleshooting
<imbrandon> no this is the right place for package management of the universe repo
<NthDegree> #ubuntu, #kubuntu and #xubuntu are for troubleshooting cahuez
<cahuez> i see, let me move ahead there, thanks nth..
<NthDegree> ;-)
<mat> could anyone have a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/scite/+bug/61033 ? if a newer scite is not put in edgy (or a patch added) tabs won't work at all in it...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61033 in scite "Tabs don't function properly under edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<imbrandon> ok jdong uploaded
<Viper550> I have a nice Usplash theme that I think would make good universe material
<Viper550> (for edgy)
<imbrandon> Viper550, we are in universe freeze atm , you are more than welcome to file  UFe though
<imbrandon> url is in the topic
<imbrandon> bbiab
<Viper550> I meant for after the freez
<ajmitch> the freeze lasts until release
<imbrandon> ahh ok , sure, get it all ready and remind us about decembe then
<Viper550> uh oh...
<imbrandon> december*
<ajmitch> at which point the distro is properly frozen
<ajmitch> and only critical things get put into updates
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi
<imbrandon> foooooooood
<Viper550> if you are wondering, it's this: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=46645 (I ported Dapper's usplash theme to Edgy)
<Toadstool> good evening
<Fujitsu> Hey Toadstool.
<Toadstool> hey Fujitsu
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool, Fujitsu
<imbrandon> heya bddebian and Toadstool
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Fixed all Universe bugs yet? :)
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<Toadstool> hey imbrandon, bddebian
* Toadstool 1 - Broadcom 1...
<bddebian> Doh
<Toadstool> :)
<Fujitsu> bddebian, not quite :P
<Toadstool> I need to squash some bugs to relax or I am going to throw my laptop through the window
<bddebian> Squashing bugs is relaxing?  Since when? :)
<Toadstool> hehe
<zakame> hi all
<Fujitsu> Hi zakame.
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<Toadstool> hey zakame
<minghua> what is the current procedure for syncing a new version from debian now (no upstream change)?
<minghua> I am talking about bug #63548
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63548 in bandwidthd "Please update to the latest version from Debian Unstable - Edgys -6 version is miserably broken." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63548
<bddebian> minghua: Unless something has changed you need to request a UVF exception on Launchpad with the appropriate details
<minghua> bddebian: even there is no upstream changes (only a -6 to -9 Debian version bump)
<minghua> ?
<Fujitsu> minghua, just a normal sync request.
<bddebian> Oh, if it's just a release bump no, just a sync request, sorry
<minghua> okay, cool, I'll do that then, thanks bddebian and Fujitsu
<minghua> slomo subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors which completely confused me
<minghua> eww, upstream tarball with autom4te.cache/ directory...
<Fujitsu> Urgh, minghua. Please keep this channel friendly. That's just not good.
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Finish up that azureus yet? ;-P
<Fujitsu> You little.
<bddebian> Little?  heh, I wish, I'm a fat old bastard :'-(
<bddebian> :-)
<Fujitsu> We've got 1.5 months to nominate somebody to do Azureus next cycle...
<Fujitsu> Hrm...
* Toadstool runs away
<bddebian> hehe
* Fujitsu pulls Toadstool.
<minghua> Fujitsu: You are serious?  I apologize if I offended anyone.  But which part is not friendly?
<Fujitsu> Back here!
<Fujitsu> minghua, that bit about autom4te.cache being in the upstream tarball :P
<Fujitsu> That's just bad bad bad :P
<Fujitsu> Not serious, no.
<minghua> Fujitsu: oh I see.  so it's okay for me to report a bug about that autom4te.cache in upstream tarball (it's a cvs snapshot), isn't it?
<minghua> I am just confused :-)
<minghua> you see, English is not my first language
<Fujitsu> I don't think it should be there, no. That's not ideal.
<Fujitsu> minghua, aha, that'd do it.
<Toadstool> Fujitsu: I run too fast :)
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Toadstool> everybody hide ! :)
* imbrandon is afk
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian
<Hobbsee> indeed!
* Hobbsee waves her long pointy stick of doom around
<Toadstool> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey Toadstool
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee!!
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu!
<imbrandon> whoop the AU crew is wakin up
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> it's 1pm :P
* Hobbsee has just been to 4 hours of lectures
* Hobbsee eyerolls
<Hobbsee> my exam timetable is truly evil
<Toadstool> haha
<Hobbsee> glad i didnt apply for sponsorship, looking at this
<Hobbsee> MATH136 - Mathematics IB  	Wednesday 15 November  	13:50  	3 hrs	
<Hobbsee> ELEC166 - Introduction to Electronic Systems 	Thursday 16 November 	13:50 	3 hrs	
<Hobbsee> COMP165 - Fundamentals of Computer Science (Advanced) 	Tuesday 21 November 	09:20 	3 hrs	
<Hobbsee> PHYS143 - Physics IB 	Tuesday 21 November 	13:50 	3 hrs	
<imbrandon> heh
<superm1> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> hum speaking of we should hear about that i think
<imbrandon> heya superm1
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: wow! fun :p
<Hobbsee> indeed.
<superm1> you going to need to open a UVFe for that patch I left for myth?  Or should the normal process of just leaving a debdiff suffice?
<Toadstool> superm1: bug number?
<superm1> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mythtv/+bug/62909
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62909 in mythtv "MythTV Frontend 0.20-0.0ubuntu2 not compiled with MMX enabled" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<imbrandon> superm1, nah the debdiff is fine, i'll upload it here in a few minutes
<superm1> mkay sweet
<Toadstool> superm1: UVFe is for new upstream versions, no need to ask for an exception when it's just a tiny patch ;)
<superm1> okay wasnt too sure
<superm1> okay well i'm gonna cut out early tonite.  got my flight back early tomorrow morning.  imbrandon, see you tomrorow at the CC meeting right?
<imbrandon> yup yup superm1 ;)
<superm1> okay night then all :)
<Toadstool> g'night
* minghua wonders where the bug mail for "Ubuntu Sponsors for universe" goes
<ajmitch> to the people in the team of sponsors
<Hobbsee> minghua: to the people on the team
<minghua> everybody?  I see.  thanks
<imbrandon> yea everyone on the team
<imbrandon> ( as with any LP team afaik )
<minghua> (and I can't unsubscribe it from a bug because I am not a member)
<Hobbsee> you should be able to
<Hobbsee> i thought
<minghua> so god bless those with email filters
<imbrandon> what bug ?
<minghua> imbrandon: bug #63578
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63578 in ubiquity "detects two harddisks, but can only choose one harddisk in "manually edit partition table"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63578
<minghua> and if anyone can show me how to unsubscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors, I'll appreciate that too
<imbrandon> ubuntu sponsors isnt subscribed to that bug
<imbrandon> universe*
<minghua> oops
<minghua> bug #63548 instead
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63548 in bandwidthd "Please sync bandwidthd (universe) 2.0.1+cvs20050208-9 from Debian (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63548
<minghua> imbrandon: sorry
<imbrandon> no /me looks
<imbrandon> s/no/np
<minghua> ajmitch: and I think motu-science's bug mail goes to the list instead of everyone on the team
<imbrandon> done: "Ubuntu Sponsors for universe has been unsubscribed from this bug."
<Fujitsu> minghua, yeah, I'm not sure how that works... LP is a strange beast.
<minghua> indeed.  I never tries to understand LP
* minghua goes home
<minghua> be back soon
<Fujitsu> Bye
<zakame> bye
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
<TheMuso> How goes it?
<imbrandon> good good, just munchin ;)
<imbrandon> tollin on LP a bit
<imbrandon> trollin'
<TheMuso> heh
* minghua is back :-)
<ajmitch> hm
<imbrandon> wb ajmitch
<ajmitch> thanks
<ajmitch> I guess DSL went away for a few minutes
<imbrandon> heh
<zakame> wb minghua
<minghua> hi zakame, haven't seen you for quite a while
<minghua> hmm, yahoo apparently doesn't like the LP bug mail from myself, and throws them in spam folder frequently
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> Yay! NZer is back in -devel!
<Plug> If you'd asked we could have thrown in another NZer? :)
<Plug> now Fujitsu, aren't you meant to be at TAFE?
<Fujitsu> Plug, not for 3.5 hours.
<Plug> Right.  Crazy timezones. :)
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: NZer in devel? we have some of them?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, that troll.
<ajmitch> oh fun
<jldugger> does the wiki have a log of who deletes or moves pages?
<ajmitch> wiki emails probably do
<imbrandon> ajmitch, hum did canonical send out the emails about the dev summit ? ( just makin sure my spam filter dident catch it )
<imbrandon> or are they late
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no idea
<jldugger> cuz someone appears to have moved and or deleted the LaptopTestingTeam page, but I can't find any record of it
* imbrandon would have figured he would have atleaste got a no if that was the case
<ajmitch> jldugger: I'll look
<ajmitch> jldugger: last change I see on it was yours, and that was no move/delete
<imbrandon> hum it does seem to be gone
<imbrandon> ajmitch / jldugger : looks like there might be a python / database problem on the wiki atm ( w.r.t. the laptoptestingteam page ) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-October/003320.html
<jldugger> ok, well as long as i didnt break it
<phanatic> morning
<Hobbsee> hey phanatic
<phanatic> hey Hobbsee
<tomv> Hi. I'm kind of concerned about the ubuntu universe versions of some packages I maintain for Debian. Is there someone in the MOTU team who wants to look at libaqbanking and libchipcard2?
<ajmitch> what problems are there? I see they're a few versions behind in edgy, but we've hit freeze time now - need to get approval to update
<tomv> ajmitch: the problems are a couple of Debian bugs ranging from important to RC, a memory leak, problems with accessing a class of USB chipcard readers and several bugs that concerning iTAN-based online banking.
<ajmitch> sounds reasonable, can you look at the last wiki page in the topic & file bugs about these? I'd hate to ship your packages with RC bugs
<tomv> ajmitch: The problem is that these bugs, while no RC in the Debian sense (makes packages useless for everyone), make the packages completely dysfunctional for people affected, often with opaque error messages.
<ajmitch> that's still serious enough to get them into edgy
<ajmitch> & we tend to trust the debian maintainer's word on this
<tomv> ajmitch: Sorry, but I do believe that unless someone really wants online banking in edgy and will subscribe to the upstream mailing list, this project is doomed to fail.
<tomv> ajmitch: That's very nice, but I'm not that trustworthy. :)
<ajmitch> 'this project' being?
<ajmitch> I've seen some of your packaging :)
<tomv> The project "having consistently good packages is Ubuntu".
<ajmitch> s/seen/inherited/
<tomv> Hey, I'm only responsible for the diff. :)
<tomv> (the interdiff, that is...)
<tomv> ajmitch: Really, I'm not in a too good position to summarize all problems either, because I don't have a lot of bank accounts to transfer money around. :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<jldugger> i wouldn't mind online banking, but i think my bank does
<jldugger> god bless america
<ajmitch> trying to track bugs in all the universe packages is always a challenge, true
<tomv> ajmitch: and I'm not envying you for the task, either...
<ajmitch> tomv: just join us :)
<tomv> ajmitch: OK, so I can try to make the changelog of upstream available in a more ready format, they're pretty good at documenting their fixes.
<ajmitch> we need to get that list of bugs that are closed in debian & waiting for us to grab - keybuk did generate them at some point
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: ping
<tomv> ajmitch: I don't want to make Ubuntu Debian. Whatever that means.
<ajmitch> layers & layers of bureaucracy?
<tomv> ajmitch: Every package cared for. :)
<tomv> :p
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: pong
<ajmitch> heh, debian has MIA maintainers as well
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: those lists are still available
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: is there some way you can redirect those MoM reports by keybuk?
<Burgundavia> yes, manually
<ajmitch> so we have to pester keybuk to get him to change the address?
<tomv> ajmitch: OK, I'll be off filing ubuntu bugs. :)
<ajmitch> I'd rather not write my own code to grab the BTS
<ajmitch> tomv: thanks very much :)
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: no, I can redirect large numbers in a single batch
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: maybe to universe-bugs or similar
<ajmitch> I know this was discussed briefly
<ajmitch> ah, keybuk is alive as well
<Burgundavia> yes, it was discussed recently
<tomv> ajmitch: sorry, you thanked me too early. It's not going to happen after all. Blame it all on launchpad. I thought, well, if you can do it via mail, but they want to make me complete my launchpad profile before that...
<ajmitch> surely not?
<tomv> no. I'll just read a book instead. Hopefully, it's not good, so I can complain.
* ajmitch sighs
* jldugger attempts to imagine what bug reports would look like if anonymous emails were accepted
<jldugger> C14LIS! BUY NOW
* tseng sighs.
<berent> can anyone tell me how to upgrade to dapper - i have currently 2.6.12
<berent> anyone here
<Gloubiboulga> berent, please ask on #ubuntu
<berent> ok
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: so where in the world are you this week? :)
<ajmitch> hi azeem
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: at home
<azeem> heya
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: great, how long were you out on the road?
<Burgundavia> a week
<Burgundavia> off to boston at the end of this week
* ajmitch is somewhat envious 
<ajmitch> of the boston trip, not the rest
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon
<ajmitch> up early?
<imbrandon> yea a bit
<imbrandon> went to sleep early ;)
<ajmitch> I was worried you were about to reply 'up late' instead
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> nah , not /this/ time
<imbrandon> hehe
* ajmitch has no plans to stay up till 2AM doing ubuntu again tonight
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> heya gnome deity , i have a quick question ( probably should be support but its slow in here shhhh ) can i make the clock in the gnome pannel show me times for other timezones when i hove the mouse over it ( i got used to this in KDE )
<imbrandon> hover*
<ajmitch> I doubt it
<ajmitch> that would be a 'feature'
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> imbrandon: Shhh, if you talk about the clock applet, they'll remove it
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> ok so umm how do you all easily check times in other zones ?
<imbrandon> or do you hehe
<imbrandon> "you all" as in normal gnome users
<ajmitch> I always convert in my head :)
<shawarma> imbrandon: like so: TZ=Europe/London date
<imbrandon> heh ok, figures ;)
* imbrandon is glad a certain thread has all but died on -devel
<StevenK> imbrandon: Hah, try debian-devel sometime
<imbrandon> lol no thanks
<imbrandon> thats one of the main reasons i will probably never be a DD
<imbrandon> sadly
<ajmitch> you don't have to read that
* Hobbsee giggles at the backscroll
<ajmitch> oh, Hobbsee is here
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed
<imbrandon> heh, heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> good reason not to use gnome
<Hobbsee> then again, if i talk about gnome, will they remove it too?
<ajmitch> no
<Hobbsee> :P
<Hobbsee> awww
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea but since horatio died and my laptop was already loaded with gnome i dident want to reinstall
<ajmitch> they'll just laugh at you
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: they seem to do that anyway, so...
<ajmitch> imbrandon: why would you reinstall?
<imbrandon> well install -kubuntu-desktop and remove gnome
<imbrandon> etc etc etc
<imbrandon> not /really/ "reinstall" link windows
<imbrandon> like*
<imbrandon> gives me a nice view of the "other side" so when i get kde back i'll love it that much more ;)
<imbrandon> sides gnome runs on my lappy faster ;)
<imbrandon> shhhh i dident say that
<ajmitch> no surprise
<imbrandon> it lacks a few minor things i'm used to , but nothing major ( little stuff like the clock etc )
<imbrandon> and i'm sure most of it is i just dont have it 100% configured the way i would like yet
<imbrandon> i do have it KDEized alot ( as in one pannel at the bottom, the application menus replaced with the main menu , pannel applet placings etc )
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> we chased her away again
<imbrandon> heh
<sivang> heh
<imbrandon> i guess not for long
<minghua> imbrandon: since you tweak your KDE a lot, GNOME probably doesn't suit you after all
<minghua> imbrandon: as for the clock thing, I am not aware there's anyway to do that
* Hobbsee dies of shock
<imbrandon> minghua, very true, there isnt alot of the "options" i'm used to , but for simplisity, its ok i guess
<minghua> imbrandon: but if you want to poke hidden features of gnome stuff, install gconf-editor and look at those cryptic values
<ajmitch> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch
<imbrandon> hehe minghua maybe someday , that wont be this morning though , /me whinces at the thought of the windows registry ( gconf editor )
<minghua> hey, gconf-editor still has fewever things to click than KDE preference dialog :-P
<imbrandon> hahahaa
<imbrandon> yea but "simple" in some cases is "simply not what i need it to do"
<imbrandon> ;)
<minghua> true, gnome is definitely not for everybody
<imbrandon> but alas it is a good DE just not good for _me_ ;)
<ajmitch> so many bugs to try & keep up with...
<minghua> fortunately I like it very much
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> COOL!  I have a fully working edgy again!
<ajmitch> hm, *crap*
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ?
<ajmitch> seems that my power supply fan is not spinning
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yay \o/
<NthDegree> kaboomy in not long then ajmitch
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ouch , get it fixed asap so you dont end up like me heh
<ajmitch> it's a fairly new power supply, too
<imbrandon> not good
<NthDegree> yeah we all like Hobbsee don''t we ;)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you broke kde again?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: X broke from -8-generic onwards.  was the toshiba hotkeys
<ajmitch> fun
<imbrandon> wow
<Hobbsee> indeed
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: How did that cause problems?
<imbrandon> speaking of X is aiglx built into the edgy X ? as in i just need to load compix/beryl and go ?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ^^
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yes, what drivers do you use?
<imbrandon> this lappy has an ati card
<ajmitch> hm, inside of my case is fairly warm
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ouch , icepacks
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: kernel oops
<TheMuso> oooo
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it's a large case, but I might shut down in a bit :)
<TheMuso> Reported?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, 0000:00:10.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon Mobility M7 LW [Radeon Mobility 7500] 
<ajmitch> imbrandon: right, so uses the r200/r300 drivers?
<imbrandon> and the opensource ati driver afaik
<imbrandon> what ever edgy defaulted to
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yep
<imbrandon> is there a way to check ?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: that's how it got diagnosed :P
<imbrandon> err "whats the way to check"
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I guess you reported it?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yeah, and others
<TheMuso> Right.
<ajmitch> I wonder if my box will come back up easily...
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: the guy saw my syslog, found the cause, then found that others had reported the same bug.  with the solution.
<imbrandon> ajmitch, well only one way to find out, heh make sure its upto date and pray ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: not rebooted for > 2 months
<ajmitch> so before the UUID changes, upstart, etc
<imbrandon> wow , on a desktop
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> big changes
<ajmitch> & this is LVM+RAID
<imbrandon> oh nice, yea i'll pray too ;)
<imbrandon> ( with you ) heh
<ajmitch> going down...
<imbrandon> can-of-air dident help the psu fan ?>
<imbrandon> ajmitch, good luck
<ajmitch> it could be the knob on front to control fan speed
<ajmitch> I'll plug it directly onto the motherboard to see
<imbrandon> ahh
<ajmitch> irssi is on another box, of course :)
<TheMuso> StevenK: You running the latest at-spi etc?
<imbrandon> right , i figured as much ;)
<imbrandon> brb gonna grab some soda
<ajmitch> this gives me a chance to try out xen on amd64, of course :)
<imbrandon> how do i check what driver X is using , my xorg.conf says "ati" so i'm guessing thats not the r200/2300 you spoke of
<imbrandon> ajmitch, very true
<minghua> am I the only one find it annoying that dapper-backports package update mails are sent to dapper-changes list?
<imbrandon> minghua, where else would they be sent , i mean it is a dapper-update
<imbrandon> err dapper-change
<minghua> imbrandon: I am not sure about the official policy, but I won't put dapper-backports in my sources.list, and I don't want to see dapper-backports mails
<minghua> if there is another list for dapper-updates, maybe I should subscribe to that instead
<imbrandon> nope all one list afaik
<minghua> oh, and I would suggest them sent to ubuntu-backports instead
<imbrandon> they are sent to ubuntu-backports ( along with the bug info ) but its a dapper change also so its sent there as well iirc
<minghua> well, it look like it's just a pet peeve of mine, so never mind
<imbrandon> i wouldent imagine it would be hard to filter them from the X- headers
<imbrandon> wouldent
<imbrandon> err nvm
<StevenK> TheMuso: Well, it was both me and Bart.
<minghua> imbrandon: no, probably not X- headers, but it's always parseable by Distribution: in the body
<StevenK> TheMuso: I forcibly downgraded Bart's machine to 1.7.11, I'll see if it helps.
<imbrandon> minghua, true
<minghua> hmm, mailman sends out a privacy alert when you try to subscribe to a list that you are already subscribed, interesting
<ajmitch> hm
* ajmitch wonders why the system freezes during bootup - a bit of a worry
<ajmitch> yet it's going fine with a live cd
<StevenK> ajmitch: Stupid question. NZ phone numbers are 2 numbers for the area code and 7 numbers?
<ajmitch> StevenK: yes, except for mobile numbers
<minghua> good for NZers, small country can afford 2 digit area code
<StevenK> Australia is huge and has 2 digits.
<tseng> except that no one lives there
* StevenK kicks TheMuso 
<StevenK> Um
<tseng> you missed
* StevenK unkicks TheMuso and belts tseng
<ajmitch> heh
<minghua> you define small and big countries by population instead of area when talking about phone numbers :-)
<ajmitch> ok, with the right (non-xen) kernel I'm back with a desktop
<TheMuso> StevenK: The latest versions for me both on an install and live CD seem to be fine.
<TheMuso> I am not getting any bubbles showing up reporting a crash at least.
* TheMuso goes to check /var/crash
<TheMuso> Nope, nothing in there.
<StevenK> TheMuso: I managed to kill it on my laptop. Try and bring up the Desktop Background Preferences, that killed it everytime on Bart's machine.
<StevenK> TheMuso: My main problem is I can't strace or gdb at-spi-registryd.
<TheMuso> Yeah I know. I tried that myself as well.
<StevenK> I haven't read the code, but I can't see why it would. Unless it has fucked signal handlers or something.
<TheMuso> Seems fine here.
<TheMuso> This is on an HD install.
<TheMuso> With latest updates, at least from an .au mirror.
<StevenK> This is an upgrade from Dapper, done today.
<TheMuso> Ok, couldbe an upgrade regression then.
<TheMuso> I need to do a Linux install on my laptop, might do that later tonight and upgrade to see for myself.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Kay.
<StevenK> TheMuso: I just get lost with all this accessibility stuff. It doesn't help that Bart keeps asking me for help with it.
<TheMuso> Understandable.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Oh yes, Bart and I solved the orca problem.
<TheMuso> What was it?
<StevenK> TheMuso: We're not sure to be honest. :-)
<TheMuso> Right.
<StevenK> TheMuso: We killed the Gnome and Orca configs and it's fine.
<TheMuso> Why does that not surprise me? :)
* StevenK tries to decide who TheMuso is digging at. :-)
<minghua> Bart, obviously :-)
<StevenK> Hah
<TheMuso> StevenK: Nobody.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Heh, okay
<ajmitch> dapper live cds are great
<ajmitch> they can be used to check all kinds of things, like using it as a mirror to check if a fan is going
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> Can anybody remember the URL of that site that allowed one to generate a vmware player config?
<TheMuso> nvm
<imbrandon> siretart, ping
<siretart> imbrandon: po
<siretart> ng
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> siretart, xine-lib is patched a little funny, wanted to ping you about the patch attached to bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xine-lib/+bug/63130
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63130 in xine-lib "Amarok does not play *.shn files" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<imbrandon> seems ok to me but thought you might like to eyeball it before i added it to the ubuntuX.diff
<imbrandon> ( it was originaly reported as a amarok bug but really xine-lib )
<siretart> imbrandon: feel free to branch from my packaging branch
<siretart> I'll look at it
<imbrandon> ok siretart thanks
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> bddebian!
<bddebian> Hi Fujitsu
<zul> anyone know whats going on with sponsorship stuff
<imbrandon> zul, afaik from what i've heard they are just late getting the emails out
<zul> ah ok
<imbrandon> still might not hurt to poke them for "official" word
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> zul, check you email ( if you havent already ;P )
<imbrandon> s/you/your
<zul> imbrandon: i know happy happy joy joy
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> kinda funny she dident bcc: them
<imbrandon> heh
<gnomefreak> are there any plans to upgrade enlightenment to E17 for edgy+1 or is it something that needs to be more stable?
<gnomefreak> congrats zul and imbrandon
<zul> thanks..
<TheMuso> Congrats guys.
<imbrandon> thanks ;)
<TheMuso> Welcome. You'll have fun.
<TheMuso> Tis an awesome experience.
<imbrandon> gnomefreak, probably as there are alot of people seeming to use svn snapshots although a release would be nice
<imbrandon> TheMuso, you not makin this one ?
<gnomefreak> imbrandon: i dont remember a release in site (i think thats normal for them though)
<TheMuso> Very likely not. Haven't received an email yet
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> ;(
<TheMuso> Since I went to the last one as well. :)
<TheMuso> Ah well.
<imbrandon> true , from what i've been told the dont sponsor 2 times in a row afaik
<imbrandon> only like ever other time or somethign
<TheMuso> Thats what I've heard as well
<imbrandon> i dunno for sure though
<gnomefreak> Hawkwin^d  has a great repo for it and its updated alot i was trying to get into source-o-matic
* StevenK is still pondering Debconf 7
<TheMuso> Worth a shot anyway
<imbrandon> TheMuso, definately
<imbrandon> gnomefreak, yea i'm aware, honestly i am in hopes Hawkwind will do the MOTU thing and keep it upto date in edgy+1 universe
<imbrandon> ;)
<TheMuso> And I'm not very geographically close.
<imbrandon> ahh very true
<TheMuso> As long as there is a good way people outside the conference can participate, I'm happy.
<TheMuso> Although I still don't like how the the schedules will be done from day to day.
<gnomefreak> imbrandon: i think that sounds like a great idea if he will accept. he still hasnt got a edgy repo yet and its not installible on edgy yet
<imbrandon> i'll definately try to keep on peoples minds i rember the hardships from last time
<TheMuso> Well, perhaps next time, Hobbsee can go for sponsorship as well. I reckon she'd get it.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yeah, maybe.
<StevenK> TheMuso: There might be other factors.
<TheMuso> StevenK: I am well aware of that
* StevenK is still trying to decide between Debconf 7 and a UDS
<imbrandon> StevenK, UDS ;)
<StevenK> I suspect my wife will incredibly dislike the answer.
<TheMuso> Anyway, I really must get to bed.
<imbrandon> StevenK, you cringe when we ask you about DD stuff ;)
<imbrandon> so UDS ;)
<imbrandon> TheMuso, gnight bro
<StevenK> TheMuso: Night
<TheMuso> Night guys.
<Hobbsee> night TheMuso
<Hobbsee> StevenK: UDS :P
<StevenK> imbrandon: The problem is that Debconf 7 is in Edinburg. Where my wife *really* wants to visit, since her fathers family hail from around there.
<StevenK> imbrandon: I feel, like Keybuk does, that I'm not a part of the DD community any more, which is sad. This makes me reconsider Debconf 7
<Riddell> but but... Edinburgh!
<imbrandon> hehe
<StevenK> The next UDS needs to happen in July 2007 :-P
<StevenK> In Edinburgh
<imbrandon> heh
<Riddell> too right, my flat has about 6 times the bandwidth of certain other ubuntu conferences
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> i am thinking googleplex will have plenty o bandwidth though
<Riddell> plus that would mean having 100% of the interesting free software community conferences in Britain
<imbrandon> maybe by that time i will have moved to the EU also ;)
* Hawkwind Looks around and ponders
<phanatic> good afternoon
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<Hawkwind> gnomefreak: You around ?
<gnomefreak> yeah kind of
<Hawkwind> gnomefreak: Edgy E17 packages will be built tomorrow, and the SoS Edgy repo will go into effect no later than this weekend
<gnomefreak> Hawkwind: ok cool
<gnomefreak> ty
<Hawkwind> No problem.  Just been really busy with a lot of things so the Edgy thing has been kind of pushed off
<Hawkwind> But I know it's in high demand right now as we are nearing the release
<gnomefreak> i understand
<gnomefreak> Hawkwind: this is just a thought atm that was thrown around but how would you feel about maintaining edgy+1 packages in universe for e17?
<Hawkwind> Heh.  I saw that convo earlier.  It's something I'm thinking about.  Just building packages for Mandriva for my repo and Ubuntu take a lot of time.  But definitely something I enjoy doing.
<gnomefreak> cool
<Hawkwind> I feel I've still got some learning to do when it comes to building debs and doing them good enough to get approved for REVU.  I'm curious if the E17 debs would pass or not currently
* gnomefreak thinks they are fine but you would hav eto have someone more into packaging for that answer
<Hawkwind> Only running Ubuntu for 3 months now I'm still relatively new in some areas, packaging being one I feel
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o lfittl]  by ChanServ
<lfittl> PART
<sivang> re folks
<sivang> will it be possible to include a NEW package in unverse at that time given a good enough reason for exception is given?
<LaserJock> sivang: maybe
<sivang> LaserJock: who are the folks who are responsible for approve such?
<LaserJock> sivang: I'm not sure what the policy is for a FF exception
<LaserJock> slomo, siretart, and dholbach
<sivang> LaserJock: ah cool
<LaserJock> sivang: what I would do is right an email to ubuntu-motu
<LaserJock> explaining your case, so people can comment, etc.
<sivang> LaserJock: okay, cool
<sivang> but first to produce the package
<sivang> LaserJock: how are you're little molecules doing btw?
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I'm hitting them all right ;-)
<beligum> Hi all, I'm looking for someone who wants to take over the ScreenKast packaging...
<LaserJock> dholbach: can I get a second of your time before the meeting starts?
<dholbach> LaserJock: you might try
<LaserJock> dholbach: I was wondering what your reasoning behind getting goffice from Debian experimental was
<LaserJock> dholbach: does gnumeric really require that version?
<dholbach> LaserJock: when? where?
<LaserJock> sorry
<LaserJock> edgy's gnumeric depends on libgoffice-0-3
<LaserJock> but that is a Debian experimental package
<LaserJock> that i've been told is quite unstable
<dholbach> it needs it
<dholbach> that's why
<dholbach> 1.7.0 is the gnumeric "unstable" branch, it needs that version of goffice
<LaserJock> ok
<dholbach> and the only change in goffice was afaik a change in arguments of a function
<dholbach> which brought a soname change
<dholbach> so there are no huge differences
<dholbach> iirc
<dholbach> it's been a while since we did that
<LaserJock> heh, except I'm trying to get a package in that FTBFS with that version of goffice
<LaserJock> oh well, edgy+1 I think ;-)
<dholbach> Mon,  3 Jul 2006
<dholbach> I'm sure it's a change in arguments
<LaserJock> I just wondered if gnumeric's dependency was strict on that version of goffice
<dholbach> where is the build log?
<LaserJock> I don't have one
<LaserJock> we were trying to get a package from Debian in last minute
<dholbach> how do you know it ftbfs?
<LaserJock> anyway, it's a little late
<LaserJock> because the author and Debian maintainer told me so
<dholbach> well
<dholbach> it'd be nice to see the last messages from the ftbfs
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> it could be a small thing
<dholbach> i'm sure there's not much required to fix it again
<LaserJock> but it's past Universe Freeze
<LaserJock> so I'll probably defer it to Edgy+1
<LaserJock> I just wish I  found out sooner
<LaserJock> as I would have tried to fix it
<LaserJock> dholbach: ok, I'll leave you alone now
<LaserJock> ;-)
<dholbach> LaserJock: if we can fix it with a UVF we should do it
<dholbach> LaserJock: but I'm not keeping you here - have a nice day
<LaserJock> dholbach: it would be a NEW package
<dholbach> get it reviewed, file a uvf for it
<LaserJock> my goodness
<LaserJock> a 14MB diff to a 7MB .orig.tar.gz
<slomo> woah
<slomo> which package is this? :)
<superm1> lol what to?
<LaserJock> gcl
<slomo> that's even worse than ikvm with almost 1:1 diff.gz and orig.tar.gz
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o lfittl]  by ChanServ
<LaserJock> and debdiff chokes
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o lfittl]  by ChanServ
<lfittl_> wtf, why is ChanServ giving me channel operator status? (just playing around innocently with irssi)
<LaserJock> is there a good place to get older debian source packages?
<crimsun> snapshot.debian.net
<LaserJock> crimsun: is that an official  debian project?
<crimsun> LaserJock: not afaik, but I've been away for some time
<LaserJock> I never really know with debian.org vs debian.net
<LaserJock> my goodness
<LaserJock> the fix for maxima
<LaserJock> is 1 missing "else" in gcl
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o lfittl]  by ChanServ
<lfittl> hmm, do MOTUs automatically have op rights in this channel? (just wondering)
<LaserJock> not sure
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o lfittl]  by lfittl
<crimsun> it's open, anyone can get ops.
<crimsun> brandon stated as much a couple months ago
<lfittl> ah, ok
<amachu> Og
<sharms> anyone know anything about the libogre package?
<LaserJock> grrrr
<LaserJock> I hate gcl
<superm1> thanks LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> np dude, congrats
<superm1> could you by chance put me in contact with the people holding the multimedia conference nov 5-10?
<LaserJock> stupid thing bails out on debuild
<superm1> i'd for sure like to look more into it
<LaserJock> it's not a multimedia conference
<LaserJock> its the Ubuntu Developer Summit
<superm1> oh
<LaserJock> at Google Headquarters
<superm1> wow
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView
<crimsun> superm1: e-mail jono bacon (jono@ubuntu.com)
<superm1> Ok.  will do
<superm1> thanks again. I'm gonna get going then
<crimsun> superm1: please mention that you're involved w/ a/v
<superm1> k
<LaserJock> oh, I wonder if this is a bashism
<LaserJock> crimsun:  rm -f ${debian/control.rm%.rm}
<LaserJock> that's not a bashism is it? I didn't think it was
<geser> I'm looking at the packages with unmet deps and need now an advise how to resolve the gnustep packages
<geser> a simple rebuild won't fix it
<geser> as far as I tracked it back two packages from debian are needed to be synced (new upstream versions)
<geser> then can the induvial packages be synced to get rid of this unmet dep
<LaserJock> k
<geser> should sync request + uvf exceptions be filed for these packages?
<LaserJock> are they new upstream versions?
<lfittl> sharms: what do you need to know about ogre?
<sharms> lfittl: oh the current package just seems like a huge mess and is out of date, I think we just sync it straight from debian.  I would like to make a more up to date one, but don't even know the first place to start
<lfittl> sharms: I already have a almost finished one here, just need to clean some stuff up and test it ;)
<lfittl> but as there are some issues that I want to resolve (samples can't be shipped because of media file license issues), it probably won't make it into edgy
<sharms> lfittl: yeah I was thinking edgy + 1
<sharms> lfittl: I looked at it one day but it was a little to big for me to handle yet
<lfittl> sharms: I see, problem is that I already did most work on it, so there is little to do, sry for that
<sharms> lfittl: I take that as a gift for sure :)  Do you have a repository up?
<sharms> or svn
<lfittl> sharms: not yet, will put one up this weekend if you are interested
<sharms> lfittl: sharms@nospam__ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> morning
<sharms> lfittl: and that would be great if you could
<lfittl> sharms: still, the package is not yet in a shape that is working (I just cleaned up the rules file and so on) so I will mail you the next days as soon as it is working ;)
<sharms> lfittl: yeah and if you cant I will give it a shot too
<lfittl> sharms: sure :)
<geser> LaserJock: yes, gnustep-make 1.13.0-1 (ubuntu:  1.12.0-2) is needed for gnustep-base 1.13.0-3 (ubuntu: 1.11.2-3) which is needed for gnustep-gui 0.11.0-2 (ubuntu: 0.10.2-1) which is needed for gnustep-back 0.11.0-2 which currently FTBFS
<LaserJock> sounds good, make it so ;-)
<geser> gnustep-back produced gnustep-back0.10 which is now missing
<geser> how are the chances to get the exceptions for these packages approved?
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> you don't know unless you try it ;-)
<geser> currently some gnustep-packages can't get installed
<LaserJock> joejaxx: congrats
<joejaxx> LaserJock: thanks
<joejaxx> LaserJock: thank you for your support also
<lfittl> dholbach: ping
<crimsun> imbrandon: ping
<dholbach> lfittl: pong
<LaserJock> I've not seen this ahod person around
<slomo> me neither
<slomo> but someone caring about ifolder would be nice ;)
<ajmitch> surely not
<slomo> why?
<ajmitch> isn't it meant to be this package that everyone hates & noone tries to get in?
<slomo> well, that guy is an ex-novell employee and libflaim upstream or something
<slomo> i would assume that he could be the right person to care about this stuff
<hub> heya
<ajmitch> oh that's a bit more use
<sharms> last I read I thought ifolder was basically abandonded by novell?
<sharms> atleast current development
<slomo> no idea... would be bad, at least the idea was nice
<geser> dholbach: how are the chances to get UVF exceptions for gnustep-{make,base,gui}? they are needed to get the gnustep libs in sync to be able to resolve the unmet deps of several gnustep apps
<dholbach> geser: file the bugs with the info on it and we'll have a look at it
<dholbach> I can't judge it just by the package name - but making stuff installable again is cool
<geser> ok, will do
<dholbach> thanks a lot
<ajmitch> of course sabdfl asked about how good we are at following up with REVU...
* ajmitch sighs
<dholbach> I hope we find some good ideas to get things rolling
<ajmitch> ideas are fine, but we need more people reviewing
<ajmitch> the *first* upload I see from ahod on revu for libflaim is about 1 or 2 days ago
<dholbach> *nod*
<crimsun> how large is the core dedicated MOTU group, anyway? It always seems to be a resource issue for REVU.
<LaserJock> I wanted to tell him that if he hired some more MOTUs and bought us a pbuilder farm we'd get it done faster ;-)
<ajmitch> maybe 5-10 people if we're lucky
<LaserJock> yeah
<ajmitch> and of those 5-10 people, I'd say < 5 regularly review stuff
<crimsun> We simply can't scale; all the MOTU who are paid Canonical employees are tied up with other things
<dholbach> I should review some more :-/
<ajmitch> and that will continue
<ajmitch> dholbach: you shouldn't have to
<LaserJock> right
<dholbach> I'd like to
* ajmitch most likely won't be at UDS, so won't be there to discuss it with the ubuntu superstars & raging MOTU-holics :)
<LaserJock> haha
<slomo> dholbach: we should re-invent the revu days... and make them more often
<dholbach> I very much liked the telepathy experiment
<dholbach> we had people committing their packaging and improved it together
<dholbach> it was real quick and brought good results
<dholbach> (packaging in bzr on launchpad)
<bddebian> What MOTU's are paid canonical employees? :)
<crimsun> oliver and daniel
<bddebian> Ah
<LaserJock> perhaps building on the MOTU teams more
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we still need more active & competent MOTUs
<hub> doesn't daniel also package gnome with seb128?
<LaserJock> yes
<bddebian> Yeah, so I had better quit now
* ajmitch sighs
* bddebian pats ajmitch on the back.. *there there*
<sharms> how about another motu-school?
<LaserJock> sure
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, why not give a class on How to be a Raging MOTU-Aholic? ;-P
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> subtitle: "How to kill yourself and burn out in 12 easy steps"
<bddebian> hehe
<hub> motu for dummies
<hub> "sorry your application failed"
<LaserJock> we have really 2 problems that we need to attack
<LaserJock> 1) we need more people
<LaserJock> 2) we need more quality people
<bddebian> 3) We need leadership
<ajmitch> bddebian: you can solve 3)
<LaserJock> perhaps
<crimsun> then get sabdfl to employ barry
<bddebian> ajmitch: Howso?
<ajmitch> bddebian: step up & do it
<ajmitch> same goes for anyone
<LaserJock> what we might want to think about is using the Teams more for leadership
<LaserJock> it's a bit overwhelming to try to lead MOTU as a whole
<bddebian> ajmitch: 1) I don't believe I have the skillz.  2) I'm a little screwed for time ATM.  Possibly after November
<bddebian> crimsun: Haha, core-dev wouldn't even have me, you think Canonical would? :-)
<LaserJock> I don't know, maybe jono would have some ideas
<LaserJock> he's supposed to be the community guru ;-)
<crimsun> I'm devoting essentially all my free time to ubuntu, but this pace simply is not sustainable
<LaserJock> exactly
<LaserJock> mine is neither
<LaserJock> I'm pretty close to taking an extended Ubuntu holiday
<bddebian> I was too until work picked up :-(
* dholbach hugs crimsun
<bddebian> And I don't feel like I even make a freakin' dent
<LaserJock> we simply can't put all of MOTU on 5-10 people
<robitaille> then you need to attract new fresh blood :)
<LaserJock> robitaille: thanks for the insight ;-)
<bddebian> I had two contact me for "sponsorship" but seem to have lost them.. :-(
<crimsun> fresh blood is only part of the issue. We need people can /pour time/ into motu.
<amachu> hi
<bddebian> Sometimes it's hard to give direction when feeling chaotic yourself
<crimsun> who can , even
<ajmitch> I swore that I wasn't going to be doing ubuntu until 2AM last night
<LaserJock> or at least a lot that can give a little ;-)
<ajmitch> but I ended up doing it anyway
<robitaille> I'm pointing a finger at myself here....but lack of time keep getting into the way of expanding my ubuntu partipation in things like MOTU
<LaserJock> I think the big thing is
* ajmitch is *meant* to be working only part-time & devoting the rest of the time to ubuntu
<ajmitch> but work needs me for more
<LaserJock> right now it seems to be a truly active and good MOTU takes virtually a full time commitment
<bddebian> Aye
<LaserJock> that's not a sustainable volunteer model,  IMO
<ajmitch> to really get into it, it does
<ajmitch> mostly because there's little way that someone can just spend an hour or two a week
<crimsun> (to point we anticipated this back in hoary and even mused about paying people to do maintenance)
* bddebian raises his hand! ;-P
<LaserJock> so I think we might have to put our thinking caps on
<LaserJock> and look at ways we can lower the required time commitments while still keeping good MOTUs
<crimsun> lowered time commitments isn't going to happen imo
<bddebian> Aye, I was just going to say that
<LaserJock> why not?
<LaserJock> right now we just burn people up and the go away
<bddebian> Well the NEW crap to maintaining existing crap grows exponentially to my point of view
<LaserJock> one thing I've found, is that if you go away for even a couple weeks
<LaserJock> it takes quite a bit to get back in the game
<bddebian> The more stuff we review means the more stuff to maintain the next "go-round"
<LaserJock> yes
<bddebian> LaserJock: Agreed, that's where I think we need leadership / direction to set "priority"
<LaserJock> I really wish we could focus less on NEW packages
<lophyte> why not split the MOTU up into teams?
<lophyte> like subteams.. have one that only works on new packages
<bddebian> Based on what?  There is some of that now
<LaserJock> it is, sorta
<lophyte> ah
<LaserJock> I don't think the teams are used effectively though
<crimsun> the problem is that you need a team of experienced MOTU to handle new candidate packages
<LaserJock> yes, I think it is a mistake to push MOTU hopefuls at REVU and new packages
<crimsun> the opportunity cost of shifting existing MOTU to that solely is quite high
<slomo> LaserJock: completely agreed
<lophyte> well, I'm wanting to get involved.. and I contributed a package.. but my problem is the fact that I'm not exactly sure how to fix broken packages
<LaserJock> people certainly get a lot of satisfaction of seeing their package getting uploaded
<bddebian> Why have we lost so damn many? :-(
<slomo> LaserJock: but people come here with the will to package something
<LaserJock> I think we need to push maintainership more
<bddebian> LaserJock: I don't disagree but I'm not sure that's possible given the ratio of packages to MOTUs
<slomo> LaserJock: maintainership as in build teams that care for a specific set of packages? like the telepathy example?
<LaserJock> perhaps we could even have a basic REVU freeze for one cycle
<lophyte> LaserJock: you mean like a dedicated person to a certain number of packages?
<crimsun> geser: are you planning to apply for membership + MOTU anytime soon?
<LaserJock> no uneccesary NEW packages
<LaserJock> just focus on the packages we have
<BazziR> LaserJock: that produces bad reputation imo
<LaserJock> why?
<geser> crimsun: yes
<crimsun> geser: excellent
<LaserJock> we are doing Debian+
<BazziR> "ubuntu does not want new packages"
<LaserJock> Debian doesn't have a bad rep for it's number of packages
<slomo> but in debian someone specifically cares for one package
<lophyte> well, if you guys would like a newbies PoV... I've read the packaging docs and I have a general idea of how packaging works, but I'm still not exactly sure how to fix packages.. I've downloaded a couple and looked at them and really had no idea where to go from there.. perhaps others are having the same problem and thus there isn't a great number of volunteers
<crimsun> honestly, we need to reimplement a release-exception "fast track" as we did during hoary where membership + MOTU were gained in one step. People like Fujitsu_ (if he weren't already a MOTU) and geser would be my candidates.
<LaserJock> I think it's a little insane to think we can put in packages Debian doesn't, *and* manage our existing divergence
<BazziR> lophyte: yes I've got the same problem...
<geser> crimsun: have I already the requirements for membership fulfilled or do I need to do more?
<crimsun> geser: imo you certainly have
<slomo> imho we should get a bunch of teams for specific sets of packages ready to care at least for the important parts of universe... and then we can care about getting NEW packages in and forming teams around them...
<slomo> geser: with your number of syncs, merges, whatever you definitely have
<bddebian> But that still comes back to my question.  Who says what Universe packages are "important"?
<ajmitch> ok, back at keyboard
<lophyte> I've got a suggestion...
<ajmitch> bddebian: I pick & choose
<LaserJock> bddebian: I do darn it! ;-)
<bddebian> Sweet
<ajmitch> like the science team does
<slomo> bddebian: packages that people care about are important
<bddebian> slomo: And you know which ones those are?
<lophyte> the current MOTU "mentorship".. how exactly does it work? is it just a matter of a newbie having contact with a certain MOTU?
<ajmitch> crimsun: I still see quality problems ahead
<BazziR> wouldn't it be possible to track the popularity? and if you see "hey 50,000 people want X" you mark it as vital?
<LaserJock> it's not as easy as one might think
<slomo> bddebian: i guess you have a number of packages that you like... or a specific area of packages. these are the important packages (for you)
<bddebian> BazziR: It's tough unless you have something like popcon but that requires user effort
<ajmitch> BazziR: popcon is opt-in
<crimsun> ajmitch: intractable, yes
<bddebian> slomo: Right but that is just or "you" or "me" not the user community who is supposed to be who we are supporting isn't it?
<LaserJock> bddebian: got a better way?
<LaserJock> forums! ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> LaserJock: No, unfortunately I don't
<LaserJock> ok, some here are some ideas:
<LaserJock> 1) get good people into MOTU faster
<LaserJock> 2) utilize teams more
<LaserJock> 3) provide better decision making information (unmet deps, etc.)
<bddebian> Sounds great, make it so #1 ;-P
<LaserJock> 4) let the uberMOTUs focus on UVFe and things like that
<LaserJock> and reviewing NEW
<bddebian> Who are the uberMOTUs?
<LaserJock> we'll have to figure that out
<slomo> reviewing NEW is critical
<crimsun> the ones handling UVF atm
<slomo> especially considering license and copyright stuff...
<bddebian> slomo: Why?  More stuff to maintain?
<LaserJock> 5) less focus on REVU and NEW packages and more on maintaining what we have
<bddebian> LaserJock: Sounds like we have dissenting opinions on that point :-)
<slomo> oh i thought with reviewing NEW you meant reviewing the NEW queue and deciding which stuff can go into the archive etc ;)
<LaserJock> on 5)
<crimsun> bddebian: packaging and licensing intricacies.
<LaserJock> slomo: sorry, I was thinking more of REVU
<bddebian> Aye, that is what I thought you meant
<LaserJock> my point being
<LaserJock> that if we have good teams
<lophyte> LaserJock: I've got a suggestion for #1
<bddebian> crimsun: Yeah and that's tough even for me.  I don't, no do I want to, know/care much about licensing stuff unfortunately :-(
<LaserJock> then any NEW packages that come out of those teams will be easier to handle
<LaserJock> I'll give a for instance,
<LaserJock> as MOTU Science lead, I'd be willing to review science apps
<LaserJock> and I'd be more so if the NEW packages came from the team
* bddebian makes no comment
<LaserJock> bddebian: please do
<LaserJock> my problem with REVU is there are a lot of packages and it's rather disorganized
<LaserJock> I think reviewers are often spending more time on a package then the packagers
<slomo> LaserJock: you should become some kind of MOTU manager... your ideas and thoughts are good :)
<LaserJock> slomo: I would be willing to be a part of a MOTU manager team
<ajmitch> LaserJock: do it
<LaserJock> but I think it's going to kill use if we only look to 1 person to do these things
<ajmitch> we don't want rule-by-committee
<LaserJock> part of a community volunteer model, IMO, would be having enough redundancy that if a person goes on vacation
<LaserJock> or has to work on some RL stuff for a few weeks
<LaserJock> everything doesn't fall apart
<LaserJock> ajmitch: we are more or less ruled by commitee's, aka CC and TB
<LaserJock> but perhaps we need a bit of a sabdfl figure ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: do it!
<LaserJock> haha
<bddebian> Or if we lose them to main, we don't go downhill :)
<lophyte> LaserJock: I think it would be beneficial, if this isn't happening already, for MOTU "mentoring" to go a step further than what I've seen, and actually have a MOTU and a newbie sit down together for an hour on IRC or something, and work on the same package
<LaserJock> yes, that can be helpful
<LaserJock> however
<LaserJock> that can lead to a fair amount of time
<LaserJock> if we even had 10 MOTUs for that
<lophyte> true.. but its time invested in bringing more people in
<LaserJock> sure
<lophyte> and then those people can train the next wave of hopefuls
<LaserJock> but will we really be gaining that much?
<LaserJock> if I sit down with someone for 1 hr
<LaserJock> and perhaps they get a package done in that time
<LaserJock> I haven't magically created a MOTU
<crimsun> superm1: uploaded your fix for #737, thanks.
<superm1> crimsun, thanks
<lophyte> well, no of course not
<cbx33> LaserJock, ++
<LaserJock> do you think it'd be enough
<LaserJock> cbx33 is an exception of course ;-)
<crimsun> mentoring is on-going
<cbx33> *bah* - i agree with you
<lophyte> not for them to be full-fledged MOTUs, no, but it'd be enough to start them in the right direction, rather than being kinda lost
<cbx33> lophyte, hmmm
* nixternal would like to get more involved in here, just as long as someone is willing to hold my hand a little bit
<LaserJock> lophyte: ok, but we are all here
<nixternal> AND NO I WILL NOT KISS ON THE FIRST DATE!
<cbx33> whilst i agree with you in some respects
<nixternal> ;D
<ajmitch> it only took about about 5-6 years to learn how to package
<cbx33> and this is just my opinion here
<crimsun> nixternal: I see you've aready hooked up with imbrandon
<ajmitch> nixternal: tkae your medicine..
<nixternal> whoa whoa
<LaserJock> haha
<Plug> nixternal: you're going to explode one day, I'm sure of it ;)
<nixternal> imbrandon has hooked up with everyone, that cheater ;)
<cbx33> but kinda knowing how and where to get the help......is more important than being shown how to pacakge
<superm1> haha
<nixternal> ajmitch: im waiting for you to ship me a new batch of that medicine ;)
<crimsun> lophyte: mentoring is on-going
<LaserJock> ok, so here is something we need to also consider
<lophyte> I agree
<LaserJock> mentoring and MOTU creation seems to be taking a rather large part of our time
<nixternal> Plug: i think i already have exploded...now there are bits and pieces of me trying to pick up more stuff ;)
<LaserJock> for some MOTUs is virtually all they do
<LaserJock> for other not
<LaserJock> but the question is, are we being efficient in our efforts
<cbx33> LaserJock, whilst i'd love for someone to sit and have someone teach me
<Plug> Something I'm not quite sure of - in Debian, its common to become a developer just to package your own stuff
<Plug> but if you're a MOTU, it seems you're expected just to be one of the big group working on syncs, etc
<cbx33> i think leanring on my own has been a great expereince
<Plug> is that because no new development is supposed to happen in Ubuntu - it should be in Debian?
<ajmitch> morning Plug
<cbx33> brb
<ajmitch> Plug: we try & encourage people to get stuff into debian
<ajmitch> which a whole other world of pain
<LaserJock> Plug: much of that comes from our team maintenance strategy
<crimsun> cbx33: one is never confined to the mentoring process. In fact, you would be ideal for mentoring others.
<cbx33> crimsun, true....but if I started I'd be worried that I'd rely on the mentoring
<ajmitch> I'd love for someone to have taught me :)
<cbx33> because I "know it's right"
<dholbach> night fellas
<crimsun> night daniel
<LaserJock> cya dholbach
<cbx33> rather than trying and learning from my mistakes ;)
<cbx33> and I made a fair few
<LaserJock> some people learn differently too
<LaserJock> some people only learn by doing it themselves
* dholbach hugs you all
<LaserJock> other's learn by reading a book
<dholbach> you guys rock!
<crimsun> right, that's the point I'm making. Of course mentoring isn't the only way.
<LaserJock> mentoring in a way though can fulfill all that
<nixternal> cbx33: i hear you..im sick of NOT learning from my mistakes, and im sick of making mistakes others did when Linux was just a dream ;)
<LaserJock> if the mentor identifies the learning still of the mentee and then directs them to the right place
<Plug> LaserJock: LaserJock see, I'd be interested in joining MOTU for a small number of packages I maintained, but I'm not sure either how quickly I'd be up to speed, or if I have the time, for the general super syncing/revuing/etc that the wonderful MOTUs here do
<LaserJock> Plug: that's fine
<LaserJock> we have teams
<LaserJock> that's nothing new
<LaserJock> ok, so quickly, can we identify a few key problems we are having in MOTU land
<LaserJock> I see maybe:
<LaserJock> 1) reviewing
<LaserJock> 2) lack of prioritized general task lists
<LaserJock> 3) people fall throw the cracks too easily
<LaserJock> s/throw/through/
<ajmitch> (too much crack)
<LaserJock> heh
<Plug> (plumber's crack)
<LaserJock> anybody want to add more?
<ajmitch> bad image
<ajmitch> people expect MOTUs to 'do it all'
<lophyte> I think #2 is a big one, and that might be one of the reasons that hopefuls are discouraged
<ajmitch> so that new MOTUs are expected to jump on REVU & start reviewing, for example
<crimsun> #2 subsumes #1 and #3
<LaserJock> ajmitch: so maybe 4) lack of MOTU definition and skill sets
<nixternal> #5 nixternal is always in the way
<lophyte> I think the task lists would be a big help...
<lophyte> I wanna help, but I'm not exactly sure where or how to help
<nixternal> look at lophyte go, he gets a sip of the membership drug on now he is on a rampage ;)
<ajmitch> blame me
<lophyte> I was told to play around with Edgy packages w/unmet deps and try to fix them, but I'm not exactly sure how.. that's the problem for me
<ajmitch> I was meant to setup the merge list but didn't get to it
<Plug> ajmitch: you do far too much already.  lets blame someone else for a change! :)
<ajmitch> Plug: no, I barely do anything
<lophyte> nixternal: nah, I've been a bit involved with MOTU.. just been busy lately :P
<LaserJock>  ajmitch I think that's a symptom, but not the problem ;-)
<Plug> you had me fooled
<superm1> so when you guys are saying task lists - why not integrate more into REVU, its a good central location?  Like a page listing all bugs with MOTU on the list to CC or assign to?
<LaserJock> superm1: because we are trying to move to LP
<superm1> oic
<LaserJock> we actually did have a nice task list python script on revu for merge/sync for dapper
<bddebian> Yeah
<ajmitch> LaserJock: what I was talking about ~2 min ago
<LaserJock> I know
<bddebian> ajmitch: Who needs to teach you, when you already know everything? :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: I said taught, and I don't know everything
<LaserJock> ok, how's this for a plan:
<LaserJock> I'll try to take on an interim role of MOTU manager, work up (with help ;-) ) some stuff on identifying problems and solutions, maybe talk with jono a bit
<LaserJock> and by UDS Mountain View have an actionable plan
<ajmitch> ah, LaserJock the MOTU celebrity
<LaserJock> I sooo don't want that
<crimsun> we can set priorities based on the release cycle. At the beginning of the release cycle, we need to focus on: 1), 2), 3) in descending priority. After autosync stops, we shift to this order: 2), 3), 1). After main UVF, we shift to ... After upstream UVF, we shift to... and so on.
<LaserJock> yep
<ajmitch> crimsun: yes, I was thinking of writing up a general release schedule earlier
<ajmitch> 'earlier' only being about 2 hours ago :)
<LaserJock> I think it's most confusing for people when they come in mid release
<lophyte> that's me
<lophyte> :P
<LaserJock> once you've seen it done once, you get a feel for it, IMO
* ajmitch is just old, bitter & cynical about the world
<LaserJock> I doubt the old
<LaserJock> but I'm sure you're right about the rest ;-)
<ajmitch> thanks
<LaserJock> haha
<lophyte> is there anywhere in particular that I could help out with?
<LaserJock> fix bugs
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> that's the usual line
<superm1> oh thats what they always say around here....
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to turn that into something more helpful
<ajmitch> with ~16K bugs open, it's a bit hard to point at some & say go for it
<lophyte> so just pick one and go for it?
<ajmitch> I just end up selecting things I know about & want working
<LaserJock> teams
<geser> lophyte: I've started with looking at packages with unmet deps (apt-cache unmet -i)
<Plug> ajmitch: is it your birthday?
<LaserJock> I really think it might be the way to go
<ajmitch> Plug: out by several months
<lophyte> geser: yeah, that's where I was told to start.. but a lot of them I couldn't figure out
<Plug> people normally feel most old & cynical on their birthday :)
<LaserJock> lophyte: did you ask about them in here?
<ajmitch> Plug: then every day is my birthday!
<crimsun> lophyte: perhaps you can work w/ geser (if he's willing to mentor you)
<lophyte> hmm.. no.. I didn't, actually
<ajmitch> aren't I lucky? :)
<Plug> every day is a winding road
<LaserJock> lophyte: we can't help if you don't ask ;-)
<lophyte> good point :P
<LaserJock> and mine has derailed
<lophyte> geser: would you mind working with me on that?
<ajmitch> I don't think people would want me mentoring them
<geser> lophyte: I will help you
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you can be the MOTU QA, making sure these silly Hopefuls are in line ;-)
<ajmitch> I'll scare too many away
<LaserJock> np, as long as the ones that stay sign over their life to MOTU
<ajmitch> Plug: ready to sign?
<lophyte> geser: cool :)
<geser> lophyte: packages still depending on gnustep-back0.10 should be easy once gnustep-back0.11 is there (see bug 63839 for an overlook about the gnustep situation)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63839 in gnustep-make "[UVF Exception]  Sync to gnustep-make 1.13.0-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63839
<superm1> lophyte, I'll work at helping resolve unmet deps too
<lophyte> superm1: cool
<superm1> i'm sure we can make that list very small in a week or two
<lophyte> we can be the unmet deps team or something :P
<superm1> hehe
<ajmitch> geser: sounds like a tangle of dependencies
<ajmitch> resolving unmet deps is nearly always just a rebuild
<ajmitch> last time I went through the whole list & threw them all at pbuilder to see what broke
* ajmitch cranks up pbuilder
<lophyte> speaking of which...
<lophyte> where do we toss the fixed packages?
<superm1> attach debdiffs to bugs
* LaserJock runs as black hole centered around ajmitch's machine forms
<lophyte> ah, alright
<ajmitch> oh goody, I still have the script to automate the build
<LaserJock> ok, well I think I'm off
<superm1> cya LaserJock
<LaserJock> I wasn't supposed to get on IRC today
<LaserJock> and now I've 2 hrs past lunch
<LaserJock> *I'm
<LaserJock> I'll try to work up some stuff from our conversation
<LaserJock> thanks for the input lophyte geser superm1 et al.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> irc addicts...
* ajmitch generates a new unmet deps list
<geser> while looking at the unmet deps list, are packages which aren't build from source anymore removed (semi-)automatically?
<bddebian> Sorry, vacuuming, can you all start all over? ;-P
<Plug> ajmitch: what am I signing?
<ajmitch> Plug: your life over to MOTU
<bddebian> heh
<Plug> maaaaaaaaaaybe
<Plug> I have to ask too many quesitons of too many people atm.  I don't mind packaging but I dont like programming or Autoconf ;)
<superm1> ajmitch, when you finish up that unmet dep list, can you most it somewhere so we know whats really broken without having to do our own large pbuilder runs?
<geser> while looking at the unmet deps list, are packages which aren't build from source anymore removed (semi-)automatically?
<lophyte> question...
<bddebian> geser: no, they need to be requested to be removed afaik
<lophyte> er, nm
<ajmitch> superm1: sure
<lophyte> I'm looking at the first on the list.. postgresql-8.0-pljava-gcj
<ajmitch> :0:> wc -l unmet.edgy.20061003
<ajmitch> 178 unmet.edgy.20061003
<ajmitch> any bets on how long it'll take me to rebuild those?
<superm1> woah
<superm1> u have several build boxes i hope :)
<lophyte> or not
<lophyte> :P
<sivang> ajmitch: need a hand with the unmet deps stuff?
<ajmitch> superm1: just one
<superm1> well i'm going to be gone for the night, if you want to distribute your script, we can all run portions of the list
<lophyte> okay, so once we have a really-broken list from ajmitch.. shall we start then?
<superm1> and report back the results
<ajmitch> superm1: it should be done in a few hours :)
<ajmitch> sivang: everyone will need to be fixing packages
<geser> lophyte: when you look https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/postgresql-pljava you will see that  postgresql-8.0-pljava-gcj isn't build from this source anymore
<superm1> Ok, i'm running off to dinner.  i'll catch up with you guys later tonite in that case.
<ajmitch> I'll need to rewrite my script to handle my new pbuilder config
<lophyte> geser: ahh.. its 8.1 now
<geser> lophyte:  postgresql-8.0-pljava-gcj was build from this source package in dapper
<lophyte> I see
<sivang> ajmitch: where's the list posted?
<lophyte> geser: so what happens to the 8.0 package, then?
<lophyte> does someone need to remove it?
<geser> as far as I see it yes, but I'm hestitant to request removal of packages
<lophyte> ah
<lophyte> ajmitch: are you gonna post up that list of broken packages when you're done?
<geser> I didn't find out the right procedure yet
<ajmitch> lophyte: sure
<ajmitch> sivang: not there yet, be patient
<lophyte> ajmitch: cool
<lophyte> I'll be back shortly
<sivang> ajmitch: sorry, was just asking
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> "Continued failure to grasp simple boolean logic. Pick up a penalty card.
<ajmitch> "
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-04
<slomo> ajmitch: hm? :)
<ajmitch> slomo: yes?
<slomo> ajmitch: "Continued failure to grasp simple boolean logic. Pick up a penalty card.", what's the context? ;)
<ajmitch> -devel list
<pianoboy3333> Is it possible to upgrade the python-mutagen package in edgy?
<pianoboy3333> I mean, can some one package a new version?
<ajmitch> pianoboy3333: it'd need some real good reasons, we're in freeze
<pianoboy3333> Nevermind then I was just wondering, I'll build one for myself, no big deal.
<ChaosFan> uwg 49
<minghua> good afternoon
<lophyte> back
<lophyte> ajmitch: how goes the build?
<bddebian> Hello minghua
<minghua> hi bddebian
<zul> oi...its quiet
<lophyte> indeed.
<ajmitch> zul: quite
<lophyte> hey ajmitch, how's the build going?
* zul clears his throat
<ajmitch> ok
<lophyte> cool
<lophyte> let me know when its done.. I'm looking forward to doing some work
<ajmitch> hi Fujitsu
* zul found out that his passport has expired
<lophyte> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
<lophyte> how's it going?
<LaserJock> fine thanks
<LaserJock> doing my daily dist-upgrade on my laptop
* ajmitch checks to see how many packages have built
<LaserJock> how big is the unmet deps list?
<ajmitch> 178 source packages
<LaserJock> yikes
<LaserJock> that's more than I expected
<ajmitch> I'm doing a rebuild of the lot
<ajmitch> some of those have been uninstallable for a long time
<LaserJock> excellent
<LaserJock> ok, so I have a question
<ajmitch> ok, so ask :)
<lophyte> a couple of us are joining forces to work on the unmet deps
<LaserJock> apparently we ship the latest crack for gnumeric
<LaserJock> which requires the latest crack for goffice
<LaserJock> but I have another app that depends on goffice
<LaserJock> but on the stable version
<LaserJock> how hard would it be to have both versions of goffice
<LaserJock> and perhaps more importantly, goffice is a Main package, could I get this new stable version into Universe?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: hard
<minghua> goffice ships libgoffice-1-common
<LaserJock> for edgy it's libgoffice-0-common
<minghua> so that's definitely not trivial
<LaserJock> I want libgoffice-1-common
<minghua> oh
<minghua> that's strange version numbering
<LaserJock> libgoffice-1-* comes from goffice 0.2
<LaserJock> libgoffice-0-* comes from goffice 0.3
<LaserJock> I have no idea what that is
<minghua> I bet libgoffice-0-common conflicts with libgoffice-1-common
<LaserJock> nope
<minghua> really
<LaserJock> they coexist just fine
<minghua> then maybe it's easy
<minghua> anyway, I am not distracting you guys any more
<LaserJock> you're not distracting
<minghua> let you guys with an edgy install to sort this out :-)
<LaserJock> I just want to be able to have goffice 0.2 and 0.3 at the same time ;-)
<minghua> okay, so, where does libgoffice-0-common install those png icons?
<minghua> my libgoffice-1-common on debian installs them in /usr/share/pixmaps/goffice/
<LaserJock> /usr/share/pixmaps/goffice/0.3.0/
<minghua> very nice
<minghua> libgoffice-1-common in debian also ship the locale files
<minghua> (I know ubuntu does it differently)
<minghua> they are goffice.mo in debian
<minghua> hopefully -0-common in edgy ships/pulls in goffice-0.3.0.mo?
<minghua> but then again, broken .mo files are not critical, you just get english strings instead
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Not going to give up on gnome-chemistry-utils, ey?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> my gnome panels are weirded out
<LaserJock> that's better
<LaserJock> minghua: there is supposed to be a .mo file in the .deb?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Solve all of our problems while you were away? :-)
<minghua> LaserJock: there are no .mo files supposed to be in a _Ubuntu_ .deb
<minghua> LaserJock: nevertheless there is some black magic to put those .mo files back when you installs a language pack
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> bddebian: yes, I managed to solve all problems in the universe in a couple hours
<LaserJock> I went home with my wife and ordered pizza ;-)
<LaserJock> minghua: ah, I found the .mo files
<LaserJock> just plain goffice.mo
<minghua> LaserJock: so if you package -1-common from 0.2.x, you can't ship .mo files (due to the namespace clash), and you end up using the translations for 0.3.x in you 0.2.x-linked apps
<bddebian> LaserJock: Sweet, good man! :-)
<minghua> LaserJock: but that's okay, not a big deal
<ajmitch> bddebian: that's your job
<LaserJock> how would I not ship the .mo files
<bddebian> ajmitch: What's my job?  I'm a nobody remember :)
<minghua> LaserJock: there is usually a ubuntu specific change in debian/rules that strip all .mo files out, and put them in lang-packs
<bddebian> Why the hell wouldn't/doesn't tor show up on any merge lists?
<bddebian> Oh, it was a straight syn previously
<bddebian> Err sync even
<LaserJock> minghua: so do you think this might work to have 2 goffice packages?
<LaserJock> it seems silly to have to do it
<zul> maybe you might have to conflict them
<LaserJock> I don't think I'll need to
<LaserJock> but my concern was more with the idea of it
<minghua> LaserJock: yes, I do think it may work, but I also think it's silly
<LaserJock> taking the same app, just a different version, and giving it a new source package and taking it from Main to Universe
<LaserJock> the other option is to port the apps to the unstable version of goffice
<LaserJock> but I don't like that much either
<ajmitch> especially as it's in main
<LaserJock> :/
<minghua> well
<minghua> I have a maybe sillier idea
<LaserJock> I really want to get these packages into Ubuntu
<minghua> ship a private copy of goffice 0.2.x
<ajmitch> built 36 packages from the unmet deps list successfully so far..
<minghua> ajmitch: is scim-uim on that list?
* ajmitch will check them all to see which can just be uploaded to fix the problems
<bddebian> ajmitch: You ROCK honey :)
<ajmitch> minghua: it's going in alphabetical order, so not yet :)
* minghua needs to take care of scim-uim FTBFS in Debian
<minghua> ajmitch: I see :-)
<minghua> scim-uim should just need a rebuild, but I need to confirm with libuim's maintainer
<LaserJock> minghua: you mean in the package that needs the stable goffice?
<minghua> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> hmm
<minghua> (and maybe static linking, too)
<minghua> which will be frowned upon by security team :-)
<LaserJock> yucky yucky :-)
<LaserJock> well, gotta go fellas
<Fujitsu> See you later, LaserJock.
<LaserJock> cya
<ajmitch> someone buy me a faster computer :)
<crimsun> you're the one with an amd64 ;p
<ajmitch> gcc-4.1 happened to be on the unmet deps list
<ajmitch> so it's currently being rebuilt on my box
<ajmitch> probably some universe package
<ajmitch> or that I had some stray packages lying around
<ajmitch> libssp0 looks to be the culprit
<bddebian> Ugh
<ajmitch> still building gcc..
<bddebian> About the only thing worse than gcc is glibc :)
<Toadstool> hey everybody
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<ajmitch> bddebian: wrong
<ajmitch> you forget mozilla code & OOo
<Toadstool> openoffice ?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well I never touch those ;-)
<bddebian> 'course maxima takes freakin forever too :-(
<Toadstool> hmm... I prepared an updated trac package for dapper with some security fixes but I don't know if the package is ok for -updates or -security...
<ajmitch> ask on the security review list
<ajmitch> more users would get it that way
<crimsun> Toadstool: did you coordinate w/ jdub? He was working on one for -security.
<Toadstool> argh
<Toadstool> nope, I did not coordinate with him
* Toadstool feels stupid
<lophyte> ajmitch: still working on that build?
<imbrandon> moins all
<Toadstool> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya Toadstool
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<imbrandon> ello bddebian
<zakame> hi all
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<Toadstool> hey zakame
<zakame> yo bddebian Toadstool
<zakame> and ogra too :
<zakame> :*
<zakame> :)
<ajmitch> hi zakame
<zakame> and ajmitch too too :D
<bddebian> heh
<zakame> erm wtf bug 63890
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63890 in Ubuntu "Ubuntu has nearly the same logo as the Microsoft Alumni Network" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63890
<imbrandon> hahah
<ajmitch> impressive
<ajmitch> daniel robbins? interesting
<zakame> who's he?
<imbrandon> is kinda funny its even close to the same colors
<ajmitch> gentoo founder, went to work for MS
<zakame> oh, that guy!
<ajmitch> I'm presuming it's the same guy
<ajmitch> yeah, he has it on his blog :)
<ajmitch> http://www.funtoo.org/drobbins/blog/2006/10/microsoft-alumni-vs-ubuntu.html
<Toadstool> what the f...
<zakame> hmm
<imbrandon> hahah you read the thing at the bottom of the blogpost
<zakame> my interpretation of thatlogo from ms is that its distinct from ours
<imbrandon> ex-ms peeps makin a foss os
<bddebian> heh
<imbrandon> zakame, i dunno, they are real close, mean the same thing and use similar colors
<imbrandon> e.g. they are both cartoon block circle of friends in orange
<zakame> imbrandon: hmm, could be, too, a la intel's log, old and new
<zakame> *logo
<zakame> yo elkbuntu
<imbrandon> heya elkbuntu
<nixternal> talk about retardation..i can't ping anything...my router says my gateway is 255.255.255.255,  i can't surf the intarweb...but IRC works
<imbrandon> dns issues ?
<nixternal> i cna't even ping ip
<nixternal> oh wait..i can ping ip
<nixternal> on my subnet
<nixternal> gimme an ip to try
<Toadstool> nixternal: 127.0.0.1 or 2001:200:0:8000::42 ?
* Toadstool runs
<nixternal> you better run faster that that
<Toadstool> :)
<nixternal> even game me ipv6
<nixternal> grrr
<nixternal> im in the US...our government is to stupid to realise how important ipv6 is
<Lathiat> woo ipv6
<Toadstool> nixternal: try google -> 64.233.167.99
<nixternal> not looking good
<nixternal> i am straight dead-locked with IPs right now...all of them are floating 255
<nixternal> you can't ping 255 from linux
<nixternal> wow...no jabber, icq, msn, yahoo, google/gmail, email, web browsing, svn, nothing...but IRC still works
<nixternal> so all i can do is IRC..this is a first
<Toadstool> weird...
<zakame> probably homeland security deems IRC as a safe communications channel :P
<Toadstool> nixternal: by the way, you can ping brodcast addresses with linux with ping -b
<Toadstool> broadcast even
<nixternal> still tells me it is an Invalid argument
<Toadstool> you're sure that you're talking about your gateway address and not your netmask?
<nixternal> kweather just died
<nixternal> 255.*
<nixternal> no good
<Toadstool> uhuh
<nixternal> can't ping anything starting with 240+
<Toadstool> blah, multicast addresses
<Toadstool> why would you want to ping multicast IPs?
<nixternal> cuz comcast uses them for gateway ip's aparently
<Toadstool> hmm?
<nixternal> ok..i should be back now
<nixternal> wo0t
<nixternal> that was odd
<nixternal> i just reset my cable modem and router and never lost IRC connection...that i will never understand
<Toadstool> well, not that weird, there are timeouts
<rmjb> Hi, how can I confirm my key went to the keyserver? When I use Seahorse I get an error, when I use the command line it returned right away saying "sending..."
<Toadstool> Lathiat: yay ipv6! when I was in France, I set up a tunnel for my parents' home network and another one for my own server in Paris... the connection was so laggy 'cause of the tunnels that I gave using v6 for SSH/Mails/whatever :/
<Toadstool> *gave up
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> the trick is
<Lathiat> to tunnel to somewhere close
<ajmitch> like australia :)
<Lathiat> heh
<Toadstool> hehe
<Lathiat> like i tunnel within australia
<Lathiat> to the only tunnel broker *in* australia ;p
<ajmitch> Lathiat: you have native ipv6 or use a broker like aarnet?
<Lathiat> i use aarnet here
* ajmitch also
<Lathiat> no one offers native connectivity
<Lathiat> i tried to find some
<Lathiat> the only people who actually have a network
<ajmitch> I thought some were planning to
<Lathiat> is Asianetcom
<Lathiat> and they still are tunneling
<Lathiat> cant get native
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> I know it was talked about in NZ as well
<Lathiat> but if you construct sane tunnels
<Lathiat> its less shit
<ajmitch> marginally so
<Toadstool> my parents' ISP is considering setting up a native IPv6 service... hope it will be up-and-running when I come back in France :p
<rmjb> so... if I forget my key's passphrase... what can I do?
<ajmitch> throw it away & generate a new key
<rmjb> do I need to revoke it first?
<ajmitch> if you have a revocation certificate
<rmjb> okay, dunno what that is, guess I can just delete the thing and start over
<imbrandon> DUDE
<imbrandon> my webhost just upped my space and badwidth for free
<imbrandon> from 20GB and 2TB bandwidth, to 200GB to 4TB a month
<imbrandon> for the SAME price
<zakame> imbrandon: w00t!
<rmjb> this seems like your week imbrandon
<ajmitch> imbrandon: they can oversell pretty cheaply :)
<rmjb> saw your hard drive blog post
<imbrandon> rmjb, heh yea
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
<nixternal> ahh the good ol' msa logo making its rounds again i see
<imbrandon> hum ajmitch got half a sec to verify something is _my_ problem and not something in the repos
<imbrandon> or anyone running ubuntu NOT with kubuntu-desktop currently installed
<ajmitch> imbrandon: hm?
<imbrandon> try to install kubuntu-desktop
<imbrandon> you dont have to actualy install it
<ajmitch> and what of it?
<imbrandon> if its like me you get a slew of unmet deps
<ajmitch> nope
<imbrandon> crap
<ajmitch> what unmet deps did you get?
<imbrandon> one sec
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25635/
<ajmitch> impressive
<imbrandon> yea considering i have only official sources.list
<ajmitch> and when you try & install a package on that list, like adept?
<imbrandon> havent tried yet, doing that now
<ajmitch> dig until you find the real issue
<imbrandon> ahh yea i think i found it
<imbrandon> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<imbrandon>   kdelibs4c2a: Depends: kdelibs-data (< 4:3.5.5) but 4:3.5.5-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
<imbrandon> E: Broken packages
<ajmitch> check with apt-cache madison
<imbrandon> hum ok
<imbrandon> well here is the deal it seems, Riddell had a 3.5.5 repo ( but not ppc packages ) and i HAD that in my sources.list
<Hobbsee> yeah, well...
<imbrandon> but i removed it and its still looking for 3.5.5.
<imbrandon> ( yes i apt-get update )
<ajmitch> well you've done it now :)
<Hobbsee> it all works on i386..
<ajmitch> time to give up & use gnome
<bddebian> heh
<minghua> imbrandon: sounds like you have a local kdelibs-data from Riddell's repo
<imbrandon> minghua, cant , there isnt ppc packages afaik
* imbrandon checks
<imbrandon> ajmitch, hhahaha
<minghua> kdelibs-data should be arch:all, no?
<imbrandon> minghua, ahhh true
* minghua agrees with ajmitch, time for GNOME :-)
<imbrandon> shiznit yea thats probably it
<imbrandon> heh i've been on gnome the last few days
<imbrandon> time to go back home
<imbrandon> ( as in to kde )
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> it's a sign that it's not your home
<imbrandon> yup that be it
<imbrandon> brandon@intrepid:~$ dpkg -l|grep kde|grep 3.5.5
<imbrandon> ii  kdelibs-data                               3.5.5-0ubuntu1                       core shared data for all KDE applications
<imbrandon> time to fix
<imbrandon> yay working now, thanks minghua dident thing about arch_all
<imbrandon> thnik*
<imbrandon> grr
<imbrandon> T-H-I-N-K*
<Toadstool> imbrandon: try xfce ;)
<bddebian> heh
<minghua> imbrandon: glad to help
<minghua> if you've run non-i386 debian unstable before, that's a very familiar scenario
<imbrandon> heh
<Toadstool> :)
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<imbrandon> gnight bddebian
<imbrandon> ahhh back on kde /me dances
<StevenK> imbrandon: Shouldn't that be a reason to mourn? :-P
<imbrandon> heh
* Hobbsee smacks StevenK 
<Hobbsee> of course not.
<StevenK> Hah
<ajmitch> unfortunate people
<ajmitch> StevenK: how much floor space will you have at your place during LCA? :)
<StevenK> Hah
<ajmitch> except for the little issue of it being miles from anywhere
<imbrandon> LCA ?
<ajmitch> linux.conf.au
<StevenK> ajmitch: If you want to stay with at my place, I'm sure it can be arranged.
<imbrandon> ahh
<StevenK> s/with //
<ajmitch> StevenK: you going to LCA?
<StevenK> I'm still unsure at this point.
<ajmitch> I'm trying to draw up a budget for the next few months, to see what I can afford :)
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> "Let's see now, two weeks of toilet paper and water ...."
<imbrandon> and broadband .....
<imbrandon> ;)
<StevenK> ajmitch: If you're serious, I'll talk to my wife about it.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: broadband comes first :)
<imbrandon> heheh
<ajmitch> StevenK: I'll see how much the campus accomodation will cost, it's usually not too much
<StevenK> ajmitch: I will of course require three references and six weeks bond. :-P
<StevenK> ajmitch: *nod*
<StevenK> Last LCA I went to, the office paid for everything.
<ajmitch> does Hobbsee count as a reference?
<StevenK> With this one being in Sydney, I think everyone will want to go.
<StevenK> ajmitch: Hah. No. :-P
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<ajmitch> oh well
* StevenK wonders when registration closes.
<TheMuso> Is registration even open yet?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> not open yet, probably closes about the day the conference starts
<TheMuso> Didn't think so.
* StevenK nods.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> i'm definetly not a reference
<ajmitch> jdub will know
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
<TheMuso> How goes it?
<StevenK> ajmitch: Just wanting to ask people around here who wants to go, etc.
<imbrandon> good good
<StevenK> TheMuso: I note that Bart's Gnome seems to be behaving very badly.
<ajmitch> fair enough
<StevenK> TheMuso: Have you seen any problems?
<TheMuso> StevenK: How so?
<StevenK> The panel keeps crashing.
<TheMuso> ooo right
<TheMuso> Let me get latest updates and I'll have a look.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Thanks.
<StevenK> TheMuso: I should tell Bart he owes you about 3 beers. :-P
<TheMuso> I don't think so. I have hardly done anything.
<StevenK> TheMuso: You've continued to listen to my whinging about Bart's problems, that's at least one beer. :-)
<cbx33> TheMuso, hey
<cbx33> it's installed
<TheMuso> Hey cbx33
<cbx33> and works
<TheMuso> Cool.
<cbx33> I have a little problem
<cbx33> I don;t seem to be able to adjust the input volumes?
<cbx33> even with envy24control
<cbx33> is that right?
<cbx33> all the sliders are there but they do nothing
<TheMuso> Are you sending audio through any of the inputs?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> a stereo using In3 and In4
<TheMuso> Is the signal showing up in the metres?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> but very quietly
<TheMuso> What is the source?
<cbx33> a Korg X5D
<cbx33> which has been turned up to max
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> I'll just bring it up here so I know what to guide you through.
<cbx33> thanks
<cbx33> i get the bottom 3 "LED" lights lighting up
<TheMuso> Ok, for HW/3, move the left slider right to the top, and depress the left mute button.
<cbx33> but the sliders on the left and right (not sure why I have 2 for a mono channel) do nothing
<TheMuso> These sliders allow you to route any input to either the left or right channel, or even both if you want to.
<cbx33> oooh.... something comes throgh on digital mixer now
<TheMuso> So to get a stereo sound, we unmute and turn up the left of HW/3 and the right of HW/4.
<cbx33> but it is still really quiet
<TheMuso> We'll get to that.
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> that's cool
<TheMuso> Once you have done that to the left and right of 3 and 4 respectively, you want to go to the analog volume tab.
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I wondered if that's where it was set
<TheMuso> Find ADC 3/4, and turn them up.
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> they were at 0
<cbx33> but I was still getting sound
<TheMuso> Yeah. They adjust the gain
<TheMuso> You should see greater signal in the digital mixer.
<cbx33> yes greater
<cbx33> ok that's cool
<TheMuso> Finally, to hear the sound, you want to go to the patchbay tab.
<cbx33> i mean there levels getting through to ardour were respectable
<cbx33> TheMuso, yeh I have figured that part out
<TheMuso> SO you can now hear the sound?
<dholbach> good morning - HAPPY HUG DAY!
<cbx33> once patched I assume I can still use the channels indepedantly in JACK/Ardour too
<TheMuso> Yes.
<TheMuso> But this is all so you can hear it if you want.
* cbx33 hugs dholbach 
<cbx33> TheMuso, exellent
<cbx33> the level still doesn't peak the meter
<cbx33> but then I suppose that's a good thing
* dholbach hugs cbx33 back
<cbx33> ;)
<TheMuso> cbx33: But when using Jack/Ardour, I suggest you set the patchbay for 1/2 back to PCM in, and use Jack/Ardour to monitor the input signal
<cbx33> right
<cbx33> TheMuso, cool
<cbx33> the siganl to noise  ratio os outstanding
<cbx33> I recorded a section at 40% volume
<cbx33> normalised it and there was still no noise
<cbx33> I was very very impressed
<TheMuso> It is a very nice card.
<cbx33> on my old card I could hear hiss when moniroting a channel, if I had several in ardour I would get very loud hiss
<cbx33> yeh it is
<cbx33> right I'm off to make breakfast
<TheMuso> Another thing that can help that little bit more, is to put the card in the bottom most PCI slot to minimize machine noise.
<cbx33> ahhh good plan
<TheMuso> And if your BIOS allows it, set the IRQ for the bottom slot to something like an IRQ of 9 or 10.
<TheMuso> These IRQs have a high priority.
<cbx33> ahhhh
<TheMuso> You won't notice it, but it will allow the card to perhaps perform that little bit better.
<cbx33> thanks TheMuso
<TheMuso> Welcome.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Ok, I'm going to have a look at Orca. Just fetched latest updates that the .au mirror I use can provide.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Right, okay.
* dholbach looks at UVF exceptions
<TheMuso> StevenK: No problems so far.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Typical. :-P
<TheMuso> I am only using Braille, but that shouldn't make a difference.
<StevenK> It still use the accessibility stuff.
<TheMuso> Yeah I know.
<StevenK> I just wish I knew why Bart's install behaves so badly.
<TheMuso> And I only nuked my orca configs, I haven't nuked my gconf configus.
<TheMuso> configs
<TheMuso> Well it seems that something has fixed up that weird behavior with Braille in gnome-terminal.
<TheMuso> THis is absolutely rockin atm.
* StevenK wonders if this means TheMuso is switching to X from VCs.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Not quite yet, although I am close.
* TheMuso will probably spend most of his time in a terminal anyway. :p
<StevenK> TheMuso: I do most of my work in a terminal. :-)
<StevenK> Terminal, XEmacs, and Firefox
<TheMuso> That last one is the biggest problem with GNOME accessibility atm. Firefox is the big killer
* StevenK nods.
<TheMuso> Rhythmbox with Braille absolutely R O C K S!!!
<StevenK> I wish Rhythmbox didn't suck.
<TheMuso> It doesn't.
<TheMuso> hmm found another little problem however.
<StevenK> If it sorted albums sanely, and supported album covers, I'd use it.
<TheMuso> Totally unrelated to what Bart is experiencing
<TheMuso> What don't you like about its album sorting?
<TheMuso> And for the record, I don't give a flying *** about album covers.
<StevenK> TheMuso: I figured you wouldn't. :-)
<StevenK> TheMuso: Hum. It's been a while since I looked.
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Well for blind people, I think it will be fine.
<TheMuso> The only problem is speech/music competing for the audio device. :p
<TheMuso> SOmething which I am lucky enough to get around.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Hardware synth?
<TheMuso> StevenK: No, Braille.
<StevenK> Ah
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<TheMuso> Although hardware synth is a possibility.
<TheMuso> Even then, trying to listen to speech while music is playing, can be somewhat challenging sometimes, especially if you like the currently playing track.
<TheMuso> hmmm. I can't seem to tab into the table displaying the music library.
<StevenK> TheMuso: How Bart can talk on the phone and type an e-mail, I'll never know.
<dholbach> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> dholbach: just about done a test rebuild run of unmet deps
<TheMuso> Hmm. I got there somehow.
<TheMuso> WIll have to work that one out.
<TheMuso> StevenK: I am kinda the same.
<dholbach> ajmitch: nice - good work on that
<ajmitch> dholbach: was mostly just refreshing the script I used last time & letting pbuilder do its magic :)
<dholbach> hehe :)
<ajmitch> the hard part is checking what's installable now after (just) a rebuild
<ajmitch> & I'll throw the results up so people can fix the broken stuff
<dholbach> sure
<dholbach> thanks a lot!
<StevenK> s/people/Fujitsu and crimsun/
<ajmitch> so true..
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: evertyhing that only uses automake >1.60 will fail
<Hobbsee> which is a lot of kde stuff
<TheMuso> Ok, looks like a slight rhythmbox bug.
<TheMuso> I can get to the music library, but only if I use the shortcut to get to one of the column titles.
<TheMuso> I can't just tab in there.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you mean autoconf > 2.60?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: perhaps
<Hobbsee> it's the one we have to keep patching, anyway
<minghua> TheMuso: yeah, I noticed that yesterday too
<minghua> rhythmbox's tab behavior is very strange (to me)
<TheMuso> It certainly is.
<ajmitch> well I have 129 build logs so far
<ajmitch> for an afternoon of compiling
<ajmitch> found a few simple things to fix
<imbrandon> ajmitch, nice
<imbrandon> you recompiling all unmet dep packages ?
<imbrandon> nice little script heh
<minghua> great, we have foreign language bug reports now
<ajmitch> imbrandon: sure
<minghua> bug #63904
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63904 in spim "xspim se queda congelado" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63904
<imbrandon> OMG i'm gonna KILL jdong
<ajmitch> imbrandon: the script can also run dch -i over a list & rebuild them with a changelog entry I specify :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: what now?
* minghua wonders if that's because LP has a foreign language interface now
<imbrandon> you see his mail to -backports?
<ajmitch> no, I don't read backports
<minghua> imbrandon: which one?
<imbrandon> gah hopefully most others dont either
* ajmitch looks for archives
<imbrandon> one sec lemme grab an archive link
<ajmitch> found gmane
<ajmitch> oh, prevu
<ajmitch> major crack
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> bad crack
* imbrandon can see the bug reports now
<minghua> oh that one
* ajmitch could do the same in a few minutes with the scripts he has
<ajmitch> yes, a very not-amused devel team
<imbrandon> yea but you wouldent give it to the general public with instructions to backport their own crack
<ajmitch> I don't even hand out my broken scripts to other MOTUs
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> partly because noone asks :)
<imbrandon> i as actualy just about to ask you if i could peek at it
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> expect script ?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> why would I use expect?
<Hobbsee> scary crack
* Hobbsee stops trusting the backports
<imbrandon> no idea, just a guesss
<StevenK> ajmitch: Hey, I gave you my broken scripts. :-)
<ajmitch> StevenK: pah, I barely used them :)
<StevenK> Typical.
<ajmitch> ungrateful sod, aren't I?
* minghua never trusted -backports since day one
<StevenK> Yup. Typical New Zealander.
<ajmitch> haha
* ajmitch has to head out for a few hours
<ajmitch> back later
<minghua> bye ajmitch
<imbrandon> backports isnt that bad, its the freakin crack persons with no reguard for procedures
<imbrandon> l8tr ajmitch
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: indeed.
<minghua> but jdong has been pretty aggressive about backporting since the beginning
<StevenK> But why? Backports are for chumps.
<imbrandon> minghua, thats fine but he has no idea how things run 90+ % of the time
<minghua> (I am not saying that's bad, it's just very different from debian's backports.org team's strategy, and definitely not to my taste)
<StevenK> I personally avoid backports, except *if and only if* I've done them myself.
<imbrandon> StevenK, yup thats me
<imbrandon> i do my own if i need it
* StevenK nods.
<minghua> when I use backports, I expect it to be fully tested on a realistic environment.  otherwise I'll just run the devel branch
<StevenK> My Dapper machine has a newer Quod Libet. That's it.
* crimsun notes a newer mutagen [1.8]  is out
<minghua> also I don't like ubuntu backport repo's "all or nothing" layout
<minghua> backports.org allow you to use backport for one or several packages only
* Hobbsee only uses the stable release in dire emergencies anyway.
* Hobbsee has been considering axing dapper to make space for edgy+1
<Hobbsee> may as well wait though
<imbrandon> minghua, yea thats how i do my repos ( and those of kubuntu.org Riddell makes ) each app has its own component OR there is an "all"
<minghua> imbrandon: yeah, IMO that's a much saner repo layout
<minghua> <sarcasm> It would be nice if prevu adds revisions like ~NOT~SUPPORTED~1 </sarcasm>
<imbrandon> ahha
<imbrandon> it does ~6.06prevu1 == ~UNSUPPORTED
<imbrandon> ;)
<minghua> imbrandon: I know, I am just suggesting to make it obvious so that users report fewer bugs against their own backported packages
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> yea i'm gonna make a script to go along with it that mass rejects any bugs with the word "prevu" in it
<imbrandon> omg i cannot beleave jdong did that
<minghua> (it would be nice if LP asks about version number as an optional field in the bug submission form, too)
<minghua> poor prevu will never gets bug for itself :-(
<minghua> As you might know that we are working to translate Debian-installer in urdu for DEBIAN UBUNTU 5.10 (Breezy).
<minghua> Why? WHY?
<Burgundavia> minghua: because they can
<imbrandon> heya Burgundavia
<minghua> Burgundavia: yes indeed :-(
<Burgundavia> hey imbrandon
<sivang> morning
<Fujitsu> Hi sivang.
<sivang> hey Fujitsu
<imbrandon> heya Fujitsu and sivang
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon!
<sivang> hey imbrandon
<minghua> Fujitsu: if a user use a foreign language to report a bug, I seriously doubt he/she can understand what you are asking...
<minghua> Fujitsu: but I applause for your trying
<Fujitsu> minghua, that's a good point... But if he/she can use Launchpad, there's at least some English interpretation going on.
<minghua> Fujitsu: I was actually wondering about that
<Fujitsu> LP is only available in English at the moment, of course.
<minghua> okay, then, I was thinking if LP interface is translated
<spacey> hi
<spacey> any knows if "Chuck Short" is on irc? (guy who blogged about xen on planet ubuntu)
<imbrandon> spacey, yea his name is zul on IRC
<spacey> ok
<spacey> thanks
<imbrandon> now if he is awake right now is diffrent ;)
<spacey> any idea about his timezone?
<imbrandon> its about 230am for him iirc ( east canadia i think )
<imbrandon> spacey, something we can help with ?
<spacey> ah
<spacey> we are testing xen in edgy
<imbrandon> ;)
<crimsun> he should be awake in 5-6 hrs
<imbrandon> heya crimsun
<spacey> hi
<crimsun> hi.
<spacey> i'll check back later,  thanks, at least i know who to ping now:)
<Q-FUNK> howdy
<Q-FUNK> anybody interested in co-maintaining Planner?
<Fujitsu> Is the current maintainer orphaning it?
<Q-FUNK> nope.
<Q-FUNK> I _did_ say CO-maintain
<Fujitsu> Has he asked for a co-maintainer?
<Q-FUNK> :)
<Q-FUNK> Yup, I did.
<imbrandon> Q-FUNK, in debian ?
<imbrandon> you kinda need a DD for that to be really usefull imho
<imbrandon> and in ubuntu all packages are co-maintained by everyone ;)
<Q-FUNK> imbrandon: planner simply gets sync'ed nowadays
<imbrandon> ahh then whats the problem ?
* imbrandon isnt understanding
<Fujitsu> Neither am I, imbrandon \.
<Q-FUNK> just that I have less time nowadays to package new upstream releases, now that they are active again, and that http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=353213 happens
<Ubugtu> Gnome bug 353213 in General "planner does not compile with libgda 1.3.91" [Blocker,Resolved: fixed] 
<imbrandon> ahh so you want a co-maintiner in Debian
<imbrandon> correct ?
<Q-FUNK> it could just as well be someone from ubuntu.  I'm not that compartimented in my view of the universe. :)
<imbrandon> right right, i was just wondering , making sure you dident misunderstand the diffrence in ubuntu "maintainership"
<Fujitsu> Gah, so you are in fact the maintainer in Debian...
<ajmitch> evening
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<Fujitsu> I happen to have an outdated local Edgy mirror in my sources.list, so it put that record last, which showed somebody else as the maintainer.
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: planner is a gnome app, no?
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: riht, because packages thta ubuntu decides to put in main end up with ubuntu as the maintainer
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, noted, I see you're in the Original-Maintainer field of the new version.
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: yes indeed
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: tempting..
<ajmitch> except that I probably won't use it much :)
<Q-FUNK> actually, to whom should I ask that automated maintainer change to not be applied?
<ajmitch> infinity, I think
<imbrandon> Q-FUNK, you do realize it dont mean much in ubuntu correct ?
<Fujitsu> I might ask him to un-munge my one package as well :P
* ajmitch doesn't particularly care either way for his packages
<imbrandon> me either, i still get the bugmail
* ajmitch is tired
<imbrandon> thats all that matters to me
<imbrandon> yea its about time for a nap here too
<Q-FUNK> imbrandon: it means even less if a few ubuntero co-maintain this with me.  then we can get 99% of the patches merged directly into debian. :)
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: you just need to lighten the load on yourself?
<imbrandon> ;) Q-FUNK well i would if i used gnome
<imbrandon> but i dont use gnome enough to be helpfull
<Fujitsu> I've used it once or twice...
<Fujitsu> It looks nice.
<dholbach> ajmitch: can you mark bugs where you approve as the second uvf reviewer as 'confirmed' and assign to whoever filed the bug?
<dholbach> ajmitch: and thanks for the reviews
<ajmitch> dholbach: sure, I wasn't sure if you wanted another followup since I'm not meant to be filling in yet :)
<dholbach> that's cool
<ajmitch> we still have some that get subscribed rather than assigned
<lophyte> morning all
<ajmitch> ah, I see you looked at bug 63842
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63842 in x264 "UVF Exception Request: x264 to svn20060928 from marillat" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63842
<dholbach> i personally like 'assigned' better
<ajmitch> it works better in this case
<dholbach> because my mail client can filter X-Launchpad-Bugs then
<dholbach> ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
* ajmitch likes that
* ajmitch hugs mutt
<lophyte> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey lophyte
<lophyte> sorry my involvement has been kinda flaky over the last week or so.. things got busy in r/l :)
<ajmitch> that's expected with volunteers :)
<lophyte> but I'm back, so.. hehe
<dholbach> ROCK :)
* dholbach -> break
<dholbach> bbl
<lophyte> ajmitch, did you get that broken deps list done?
<ajmitch> lophyte: in a sense
<ajmitch> I rebuilt everything on it
<ajmitch> I need to get the tracker stuff up on tiber
<lophyte> ah, I thought you were going to work up a list of packages that weren't fixed with a rebuild
<ajmitch> yes, but that requires a fair bit of manual checking which I'll do tomorrow :)
<lophyte> ahh
<ajmitch> I could automate that further with pbuilder or piuparts
<ajmitch> & will probably do so
<ajmitch> rebuilding nearly 180 source packages did take a few hours
<lophyte> hehe, I bet
* ajmitch only has an old, slow amd64 x2
<lophyte> oh yeah, that's old and slow :P
<ajmitch> it's not a new socket AM2, of course it's old ;)
<lophyte> old is this P2 233 I have next to me.
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> ok, I'm going to go & sleep
<ajmitch> I'll try & get a list of packages that need love tomorrow
<ajmitch> sorry for the delay
<lophyte> no worries :)
<Fujitsu> See ya, ajmitch.
<kallewoof> I've been scrolling around looking at REVU (at tauware.de) for a while now, and I'm a little curious about something... Some packages have been there since e.g. april, but has no comments at all. Others are commented on within days. Is there some reasoning behind that (e.g. type of package) or is it simply that volunteers pick what seems fun?
<kallewoof> s/volunteers/reviewers/
<Hobbsee> kallewoof: usually people ask for reviews in here, or on the mailing list
<Hobbsee> here mostly
<kallewoof> Oh! Gotcha. :) Anyone feel like reviewing the synchroedit-server and/or synchroedit-client submissions, then? *grins*
<effraie> hello all does somebody know the syntax to include a local rep as othermirror in .pbuilder?
<gnomefreak> what would it take to get patches for Joe included in ubuntu for edgy im assuming (besides an act of god?
<azeem> gnomefreak: that depends on the nature of the patches I guess
<Adri2000> effraie: is it on a ftp or http or not?
<azeem> if they fix crashers, no problem I'd say
<gnomefreak> bug 63952
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63952 in joe "bugfixes and feature improvements" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63952
<gnomefreak> thats the request
<effraie> Adri2000: it's a local rep
<effraie> i know it's possible, i just don't remember the syntax
<Fujitsu> file:///path/to/wherever?
<Hobbsee> effraie: man pbuilder is usually a good place to check for such syntax?
<effraie> Hobbsee: your right...
<Adri2000> yep, found in man pbuilder: "deb file:/usr/local/mirror ./"
<effraie> but, i hoped somebody memory will be more quick
<effraie> thanks
<gnomefreak> yep it fixed from what i see one segfault
<Adri2000> a new (minor) release of xmoto has been released yesterday and is already in debian, do you think it has a chance to get in edgy?
<Hobbsee> !info xmoto edgy
<ubotu> xmoto: 2D motocross platform game. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2.1-1 (edgy), package size 735 kB, installed size 1900 kB
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: not without a UVFe
<Adri2000> I know, I will file a bug for a UVF is you think it has a change to be accepted :p
<Adri2000> s/is/if/
<gnomefreak> i guess that would depend on the definition of minor?
<Adri2000> I mean: 0.2.1 -> 0.2.2
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: it's in debian unstable?
<Adri2000> yes
<Adri2000> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/x/xmoto/xmoto_0.2.2-1/changelog
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: see if it builds and installs fine in edgy - the sid version
<Adri2000> ok
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: a questoin - why arent they included upstream?
<gnomefreak> i dont know im just looking at bugs and i ran across this one
<gnomefreak> figured ask about getting things in since we are low on time
* effraie again...
<effraie> i've got an error when --override-config : Failed to fetch file:/var/cache/pbuilder/result/./Packages.gz  File not found
<effraie> but, i used un update script tio create a packages file in my rep
<effraie> can somebody help me?
<Adri2000> effraie: paste the line you put in the .pbuilderrc
<effraie> OTHERMIRROR="deb file:/var/cache/pbuilder/result ./"
<Adri2000> try OTHERMIRROR="deb file:/var/cache/pbuilder/result /"
<effraie> ok
<effraie> oh, same error..
<effraie> my script only create a Package fil.. no Package.gz...
<effraie> maybe the problem come from ther?
<effraie> here is the script : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25651/
<effraie> what can i add to create the .gz ?
<lionelp_> effraie: do something like that :
<lionelp_> /usr/bin/dpkg-scanpackages $1 /dev/null | gzip - > $1/Packages.gz
<lionelp_> s/$1/./
<effraie> i add that line in the script?
<lionelp_> instead of you call to scanpackages
<AnAnt> anyone wants to REVU a package ?
* Hobbsee wonders why
<Hobbsee> unless you're filing a UVFe about it too
<AnAnt> what is UVF ?
<Riddell> AnAnt: universe freeze, no new packages
<AnAnt> it's not new
<effraie> lionelp_: i'm sorry, but my english (and my script knowledge) is poor... and, i cant understand what i've to do
<AnAnt> I fixed a bashism in softbeep that's all
<AnAnt> if [ "$1" == "irssi" ]   <== that is  bashism, right ?
<shawarma> AnAnt: yes
<effraie> lionelp: tu est franais?
<AnAnt> well, I fixed that bashism
<effraie> est/es
<AnAnt> in softbeep
<lionelp> effraie: il faut que tu rajouts  la fin de ton appel dpkg-scanpackages (au lieu de > Packages) un  | gzip - > Packages.gz
<AnAnt> quoi ?
<effraie> ok, j'essaie a
<lionelp> AnAnt: for correcting a bug, you should attach a patch to the bug, not upload to REVU
* kallewoof didn't realize about the freeze. Damn. But it makes sense.
<AnAnt> lionelp: how do I find the page for softbeep/
<AnAnt> ?
<effraie> lionelp: j'ai tjrs la mme erreur...
<effraie> cela pourrait il tre un pb de droits?
<lionelp> AnAnt: here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/softbeep
<shawarma> Nej, hvor er det sejt at skrive p sit eget sprog. :-)
<lionelp> and for filling a bug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/softbeep/+filebug
<kallewoof> shawarma: Helpful if you're not fluent in english.
<shawarma> kallewoof: Ja, det er klart nok.
<lionelp> effraie: you script is a bit overkill
<lionelp> a single line should be sufficient
<effraie> lionelp: wich one?
<lionelp> are you sure your Packages.gz is created at the good place ?
<effraie> no, im'sure for nothing...
<effraie> where is the right place?
<lionelp> A ling with : "/usr/bin/dpkg-scanpackages . /dev/null | gzip - > /your/path/Packages.gz"
<lionelp> effraie: the right place is where you are looking for it (i.e. where your repository is)
<effraie> ok, i try it thanks a lot
<shawarma> I'm just kidding around. If you want to speak French, I don't mind much.
<effraie> lionelp: toujours la mme erreur... si je te montre un ls de mon rep, mon .pbuilderrc-edgy, et mon script, a t'aide a m'aider?
<lionelp> shawarma: I did not understand one work of what you said :)
<shawarma> lionelp: I didn't expect you to. :-)
<AnAnt> lionelp: attach a patch or a diff.gz ?
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: bug 63964 :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63964 in xmoto "UVF exception request: xmoto 0.2.2-1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63964
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: nic
<Hobbsee> e
<lionelp> shawarma: what language was it ?
<lionelp> AnAnt: a patch
<effraie> dutch?
<shawarma> lionelp: Danish.
<lionelp> mouah, no chance for me so :)
<lionelp> effraie: yes, your elements can help, could you put them on pastebin ?
<effraie> lionelp: of course i can !
<effraie> the ls :http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25655/
<kallewoof> I've been browsing around about that freeze, but I can't really find any info on it. How long do they usually last? Or is that case-by-case?
<lionelp> effraie: you have a Packages.gz !
<effraie> my pbuilderrc : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25656/
<effraie> lionelp: i know i've one...
<lionelp> kallewoof: look at there : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule
<lionelp> kallewoof: it will last until the relase
<effraie> my script : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25657/
<kallewoof> lionelp: There it is! I looked, promise. :/ Thanks!
<effraie> my error : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25658/
<AnAnt> lionelp: patch against what ?
<AnAnt> lionelp: I made a dpatch
<AnAnt> lionelp: would I submit that ? or a patch against the diff ?
<lionelp> effraie: in OTHERMIRROR, I think you should use ./ at the end instead of /
<effraie> i try it immediatly
<lionelp> AnAnt: a patch between the actual source (apt-get source) and the packaged modified by you
<AnAnt> ls
<effraie> lionelp: Failed to fetch file:/var/cache/pbuilder/result/./Packages.gz  File not found
<kallewoof> Thanks for the help folks. I'm outta here. Will be back around end of October when that freeze thaws. ;)
<effraie> lionelp: no idea?
<lionelp> effraie: not a lot :-(
<lionelp> could you ls /var/cache/pbuilder/result/./Packages.gz to see
<effraie> thank you very much, BTW
<AnAnt> lionelp: ok , done (I think)
<lionelp> AnAnt: looks good
<AnAnt> thanks
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Q-FUNK> are there any tools to produce an reverted patch?
<Q-FUNK> I'd like to produce an inverted of this intrusive patch that upstream merged http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=353213
<Ubugtu> Gnome bug 353213 in General "planner does not compile with libgda 1.3.91" [Blocker,Resolved: fixed] 
<Q-FUNK> I soehow doubt that droping this in debian/patches/ would make simple-patch-sys undestand that I mean for it to revert the changes
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: patch -p1 -R < ../../patch
<dholbach> (in a cdbs-edit-patch subshell)
<Q-FUNK> hm?!
<dholbach> cdbs-edit-patch 10-revert-upstream-fix
<dholbach> ...
<dholbach> patch -p1 -R < ~/the-upstream-fix
<dholbach> ...
<dholbach> ctrl-d
<Q-FUNK> ah
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: thanks
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: de rien
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: I tried, except that the patch found at this bug is not what went into 0.14.1.  one chunk fails to revert
<dholbach> and what about fiddling manually?
<dholbach> maybe you can coerce somebody in #ubuntu-desktop to poke at it together with you?
<lophyte> is anyone elses evolution broken after the latest edgy upgrade?
<monger> zul, I've heard you are familair with xen?
<zul> yep
<monger> I've got a strange problem with xen on edgy maybe you can help me out
<zul> sure ill try
<monger> My dom0 starts just fine, I can start domU's (tried debian in domU)
<monger> But if I put edgy in domU too it hangs on vbd during the initialisation of the domU
<monger> I get this error: Error: Device 770 (vbd) could not be connected
<zul> weird i dont get that error can you open a bug in launchpad so we can track this, im at work right now and cant really help
<monger> So I'm keeping you from doing something productive ;)
<monger> I'll do so
<monger> Thnx for the trouble
<Lutin> Hi
<Lutin> I'm having trouble with cdbs and debug packages under edgy. for some reason my debug libs go into the lib packagage, instead of the -dbg one
<Lutin> package*
<Lutin> any clues ?
<azeem> Lutin: what kind of debug libs are those?
<azeem> that is, are they dedicated debug libraries, or just the unstripped version of the real library
<Lutin> unstripped versions of the lobs
<Lutin> libs*
<azeem> so you have unstripped libs in the real package, and nothing in the -dbg package?
<Lutin> yeah
<Lutin> and I don't understand why
<azeem> you have a -dbg package in debian/control, right?
<Lutin> indeed
<Lutin> note that "bug" doesn't happen under dapper
<azeem> oh
<azeem> with the same source package?
<Lutin> and the same debian tree
<Lutin> yes
<azeem> strange
<Lutin> yeah
<Lutin> besides, there's another thing
<Lutin> the source package provides several libs and some debug binaries. and _all_ of them goes unstripped in the lib pkg
<Lutin> no clues ?
<kristog> hello *, i'm applying as MOTU, i add myself to the peoplubuntu-dev group.
<kristog> i will be in the TB meeting.
<kristog> I wonder what i can do for help you :)
<bddebian> kristog: Fix some bugs :-)
<kristog> bddebian: ok, i'm doing some triage on NM and g-p-m :)
<bddebian> Great
<Lutin> talking about bugs, no one have  ideas about the one I get ?
<kristog> Lutin: what bug?
<Lutin> kristog, some weirdness with cdbs and unstripped libs
<Lutin>  for some reason my debug libs go into the lib packagage, instead of the -dbg one. and it happens only with edgy
<kristog> you have a -dbg.install?
<Lutin> not needed
<kristog> i don't know if cdbs can handle -dbg package with some define.
<kristog> define == DBG_PACKAGE_BLABLABLA:
<Lutin> DEB_DH_STRIP_ARGS := --dbg-package=libfoo
<Lutin> but the problem is that on some pacakges, the unstripped libs go into the normal lib pkg
<lophyte> heya LaserJock_
<LaserJock_> hi
<lophyte> how's it going?
<LaserJock_> fine
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock_
<LaserJock_> hi bddebian
<jdong|laptop> hi everyone
<jdong|laptop> come on, it's safe to say hi to me... I'm not here to poke anyone about uploads :)
<bddebian> Heya jdong|laptop :-)
<jdong|laptop> HA TRICKED YOU!
<jdong|laptop> muahaha
<jdong|laptop> now, just grab the debdiff for wine 0.9.22 and nobody gets hurt....
<jdong|laptop> (j/k) :D
<bddebian> jdong|laptop: Last time I tried to touch wine I got yelled at :-)
<jdong|laptop> bddebian: lol... I filed a uvf for the new wine... hope it goes through :)
<bddebian> jdong|laptop: New wine from where?  Apparently we use the winehq packages not Debian (in case you didn't know that.  I didn't)
<jdong|laptop> bddebian: new wine from upstream sources
<bddebian> Ah, OK
<jdong|laptop> bddebian: they still package fine under our diff.gz
<jdong|laptop> no changes that groundbreaking, but yes I do know that we use winehq
<jdong|laptop> their repos are pretty sane
<LaserJock> hmm, well I'm glad I didn't upgrade my last computer to edgy
<LaserJock> there is a bashism in debian/rules in gcl
<LaserJock> I can't even build the source package on edgy as it is ;-)
<bddebian> w00t
<LaserJock> but at least I found the fix
<LaserJock> crimsun siretart: ping?
<LaserJock> bddebian: do you know if we have a updates policy?
<siretart> LaserJock: yeah?
<LaserJock> siretart: do you know if we have a -updates policy?
<geser> do I need an ACK from a motu for a sync request if I already have a go from motu-uvf?
<LaserJock> I was just talking to mdz about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<siretart> LaserJock: err, if you mean uploads for dapper-updates/universe, well, sort of
<siretart> I remember some updates for at least breezy-updates/universe, but I don't remember the exact details.
<siretart> the infrastructure is there, the main problem is rather ppl caring enough to upload there
<matid> LaserJock: I've got a question for you. I'd like to know what could I do to help out and become a MOTU. I'm aware that right now it will be hard because of the Universe Freeze, but I'm still willing to help
<LaserJock> siretart: mdz said the MOTU should work out what they want
<LaserJock> matid: help fix bugs, and work on unmet deps
<siretart> LaserJock: oh. I see.
<LaserJock>  mdz> though I strongly recommend using StableReleaseUpdates or something very close to it
<siretart> LaserJock: in what context did he say that?
<LaserJock> LaserJock> does StableReleaseUpdates apply equally to Universe?
<LaserJock> LaserJock> mdz: ^^? or do you want MOTUs to decide that?
<LaserJock> mdz> LaserJock: the latter
<matid> LaserJock: By attaching a debdiff to the bug reports, I presume?
<LaserJock> matid: yep, and subscribing ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<siretart> LaserJock: ah. I see
<matid> LaserJock: And one last question - if I just fix the dependencies should I add my own debian/changelog entry? It's overwritten by a MOTU during the upload process anyway
<siretart> LaserJock: I think that what's lacking here is a process/workflow for how to provides updates for universe updates
<LaserJock> matid: it shouldn't be overwritten if it is usable as is
<LaserJock> matid: all the MOTU has to do is gpg sign it
<LaserJock> siretart: yep
<LaserJock> siretart: I need to do some right now
<matid> LaserJock: Ok
<LaserJock> siretart: but I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be uploading to -proposed or not
<LaserJock> etc/
<LaserJock> hehe, that should be etc.
<LaserJock> siretart: should we discuss this on the -motu list?
<LaserJock> siretart: or do we already have something in place that I don't know about?
<matid> LaserJock: Approximately, how long should I contribute to MOTU Team by fixing bugs to become a MOTU? I know the approval is done individually, but could you at least say if it will take 2 months or 5 moths of continous contribution.
<matid> LaserJock: You can have a look at my launchpad profile or my wiki to see how am I doing right now
<matid> https://launchpad.net/people/matid
<matid> httsp://wiki.ubuntu.com/Matid
<matid> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Matid
<LaserJock> matid: you're an Ubuntu member now, right?
<matid> LaserJock: Yes, I am
<bddebian> LaserJock: Sorry, I don't know (though it looks like it's already in discussion) :)
<LaserJock> matid: I'd say it'd take a month or so
<LaserJock> matid: probably not 5 if you get into it
<LaserJock> seems like it took me 2-3 months
<LaserJock> but I was doing lots of other things too
<matid> I should have started it ab. 2 months ago, before the Universe freeze ;)
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> well, edgy+1 will open up soon enough ;-)
<bddebian> Gah :-(
<LaserJock> you get lots of chances there for sure ;-)
<bddebian> When is Edgy supposed to release anyway? :-)
<LaserJock> Oct. 22nd I think
<matid> Wasn't it 26th?
<LaserJock> maybe
<LaserJock> something like that
<LaserJock> oh cool
<bddebian> Holy crap, I'm not going to be able to do anything by then :'-(
<LaserJock> that's during national Chemistry week
<matid> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule
<matid> 26th, my mind didn't play tricks on me ;)
<LaserJock> the 23rd is Mole Day
<matid> Ok, I guess I'll have to start my dash to become a MOTU and hang out on this channel more ;)
<matid> By the way, what should we do about sync requests now? Since we're after the UVF we should reject them, shouldn't we?
<ajmitch> matid: no
<matid> ajmitch: So what should one do?
<ajmitch> matid: if it's a new upstream, get them to provide the necessary info & assign to motu-uvf
<ajmitch> if it's just a new debian revision, business as normal
<matid> ajmitch: Ok, thanks!
<geser> ajmitch: do I need an ACK from a motu for a sync request if I already have a go from motu-uvf?
<siretart> LaserJock: sorry, I was afk
<siretart> LaserJock: AFAIK, we didn't discuss this matter yet.
<siretart> LaserJock: in the past, when we had to discuss matters, we made a MOTUMeeting
<siretart> LaserJock: but since we grew a lot since the last motumeeting, I think an irc meeting for that isn't really feasible
<siretart> LaserJock: I'd suggest that you start outlining procedures for uploading to dapper-updates on the ubuntu wiki and label it as draft
<siretart> LaserJock: and then start a discussion on ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.co
<siretart> m
<siretart> LaserJock: then all can read and comment on the proposal.I think this is what mdz has in mind
<siretart> LaserJock: I'm particulary curious how we want to manage the part about q/a for those uploads. for main, the procedures are quite strict, at least since the botched X upload for dapper
<zul> someone would obvisouly have to test them
<zul> ie a motu-qa group
<matid> Is there a motu-qa team?
<ajmitch> geser: the archive admins may wish it to be so
<blueyed> I have a .deb and get "error creating directory `./usr/share/jedit/XXX': No such file or directory" when trying to dpkg --install it. See http://paste.uni.cc/10567 - lintian says it's ok. Any idea?
<lophyte> hey all
<blueyed> Do the directories need to be included "as-is" in the .deb - so they get created?
<kristog> blueyed: could you put debian/ online?
<blueyed> kristog: sure. http://codeprobe.de/tmp/jedit-debian/
<blueyed> The package gets generated by an ant target and I'm trying to fix it.
<kristog> blueyed: where are rules and changelog ?
<blueyed> They aren't there.. are they required?
<kristog> ehrr for build a debian package yes
<blueyed> The package gets build by a Java class, de.masters_of_disaster.ant.tasks.deb.Deb - I'll investigate how it works.
<blueyed> kristog: wonder though, that lintian does not complain and dpkg starts installing.
<kristog> because rules is not shipped in the .deb
<kristog> i don't know what is de.masters_of_disaster.ant.tasks.deb.Deb
<kristog> but i think you need rules and copyright
<LaserJock> _MMA_: but you are wanting to get your metapackages in Universe, right?
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Hey. Thats the thing.
<_MMA_> Im not sure, in the end, where they should go.
<LaserJock> _MMA_: well, shoot for Universe ;-)
<_MMA_> I was relying on Dana for things like this but he just doesnt have the time for the project.
<LaserJock> _MMA_: you sure? He was talking to  me about it the other day
<_MMA_> Its the vibe Im getting. He has been dealing with personal issues. Its better he takes care of himself.
<LaserJock> if you integrate more with the MOTU Multimedia team I'm sure they would be a help
<_MMA_> Is that another channel?
<LaserJock> no
<_MMA_> Lots of this stuff is new to me but I have to get this done.
<_MMA_> What people should I contact?
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/people/motumedia
<LaserJock> you could probably email the ubuntu-motu list
<_MMA_> As far as meta-packages go, I can get a list of packages together but I have no clue how to make a .deb or a meta-package.
<LaserJock> with a description of your project and things you need help on
<_MMA_> Im not even sure how to mail a list. One more thing I have to look into. ;)
<LaserJock> _MMA_: lists.ubuntu.com
<_MMA_> Ok. Ill look into that. I have so much going on its sick. I just got a email about going to UDS Mountain View. One more thing to work on. :)
<LaserJock> _MMA_: just take it one thing at a time
<sivang> _MMA_: just think how lucky you are :-)
<_MMA_> Im trying. The biggest thing is balencing my family life. Im a stay-at-home Dad.
<[Pitcher] > hi all, new server of support to ubuntu /server -m irc.ubuntuzone.org:6668 ;)
<[Pitcher] > hi all, new server of support to ubuntu /server -m irc.ubuntuzone.org:6668 ;)
<_MMA_> sivang: It is pretty cool. :)
<iXce> Oo
<_MMA_> Thanx for the info guys. Off to work more on the WIKI.
<LaserJock> _MMA_: just don't worry about having to have everything done right now
<sivang> _MMA_: I would concentrate on stuff you would llike to prepare for UDS, the conference is more around plans and mockups , then actual code and package.
<LaserJock> _MMA_: projects like this take quite a bit of time
<kristog> sivang: UDS?
<sivang> kristog: yes
<kristog> what is uds ubuntu-S?-S? ?
<_MMA_> I really want to see it through. I think Demudi left a gap.
<sivang> kristog: Well, it's been observed that some code and package did sprung out during a UDS, however, it's not mandatory I think
<sivang> kristog: UbuntuDeveloperSummit
<kristog> ah ok ! thank you
<sivang> kristog: np
<LaserJock> _MMA_: UDS will also be a good place to get people excited about it
<_MMA_> LaserJock: I hope so. Im pretty good at talking to people. I have art being created currently. I will have mock-ups. I hope to have a disk to test also based off of Edgy.
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Ill look as "pro" as I can.
<ajmitch> morning all
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<AnAnt> anyone knows a document (other than manpage) explaining arrays or field expansion for dash ?
<AnAnt> I don't understand the manpage
<AnAnt> ping lionelp
<lionelp> pong AnAnt
<AnAnt> lionelp: should I change status of softbeep bug or someone else should do that ?
<AnAnt> lionelp: I see that there are Fix released & Fix committed
<lionelp> AnAnt: nope
<lionelp> fix released is when the modif will be uploaded
<lionelp> and fiex released when the package will be in the repo
<AnAnt> lionelp: so it is fix committed ?
<AnAnt> lionelp: and should I assign it to myself ?
<AnAnt> lionelp: ?
<lionelp> sorry
<lionelp> I was on phone
<AnAnt> np
<lionelp> no, fix commited is when the source package is uploaded to the Ubuntu repository
<AnAnt> so I shouldn't change the bug status then ?
<lionelp> AnAnt: what is the status ?
<lionelp> it should be confirmed right now
<AnAnt> lionelp: unconfirmed
<AnAnt> lionelp: nope it is UNdecided
<lionelp> confirmed => the bug is known and we have full informations to correct the bug (we have the fix)
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> and assigned the bug to myself or leave it unassigned ?
<lionelp> Assigned to "sponsor for universe"
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> lionelp: thanks
<XiXaQ> how about adding xrdp in a future Ubuntu distro? It would be very nice if one could connect directly to a Ubuntu desktop from any Windows desktop.
<Q-FUNK> XiXaQ: it could be fun, indeed.
<Q-FUNK> is there already a package of it in Debian or in Ubuntu/universe?
<XiXaQ> there is a debian package.
<XiXaQ> http://xrdp.sourceforge.net
<Q-FUNK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<lionelp> upstream build a Debian but it is not in Debian
<Q-FUNK> it's already being considered
<XiXaQ> it would be fun, useful and possibly the best marketing tool we could ask for.
<Q-FUNK> XiXaQ: see the URL above.  someone already spotted the package
<XiXaQ> I saw.. I didn't know of the wiki page. :)
* Q-FUNK is filing an RFP for xrdp against wnpp
<XiXaQ> what is wnpp?
<XiXaQ> and what is a RFP? :)
<effraie> any french here?
<ajmitch> XiXaQ: debian terms
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: why not an ITP? :)
<lionelp> effraie: still here :)
<geser> XiXaQ: RFP = Request For Package
<effraie> i've got a very confusing error here : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25693/
<geser> XiXaQ: WNPP = Work-Needing and Prospective Packages
<effraie> it happens while building beryl-settings, and while building beryl-manager
<lionelp> effraie: interesting :)
<effraie> lionelp: do you have an idea?
<XiXaQ> geser, thanks... :) Learn something new every day. :)
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: cause I wouldn't have any need for it myself? :)
<lionelp> but beryl is not in Ubuntu as far as i know :)
<effraie> i know...
<lionelp> effraie: the external repository you are using is broken...
<lophyte> hey geser
<geser> hello lophyte
<effraie> lionelp: i'm pbuilding the first .debs for ppc
<effraie> no external repo, exept my own...
<lionelp> Okay !
<lophyte> geser: I'm still waiting for ajmitch before I look into doing unmet deps.. he rebuilt them all last night
<lionelp> did you build beryl-settings and beryl-manager
<effraie> no, that error arrive during that build
<effraie> berryl-setting tell me "i need beryl-manager & beryl-settings" and beryl-manager... the same
<geser> lophyte: I hope to get the gnustep-{make,base,gui} fixed on the next archive day so we could begin with the gnustep packages soon
<lophyte> geser: ok, sounds good.. I'd like to help with that
<geser> there are over 60 packages depending on gnustep-back0.10
<ajmitch> geser: should be a good way to cut the list back
<ajmitch> how many will need rebuilds?
<geser> I haven't checked yet
<geser> but all need a rebuild or a sync from debian
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> rebuilds are simple, they can be done in minutes by someone with upload rights
<lophyte> I like doing rebuilds though, its good practice to get into the swing of creating a package
<lophyte> ;)
<lophyte> I've only done one... a few more would be good practice I think
<ajmitch> lophyte: rebuilds are nothing more than adding a changelog entry & running debuild -S, then uploading
<ajmitch> (testing in between, of course)
<lophyte> yeah i suppose
<ajmitch> with a list of packages I could do that in a few seconds
<lophyte> you and your automation :P
<ajmitch> I wrote the scripts awhile ago, i like being lazy
<lophyte> well I wonder what else I could do
<ajmitch> fix those that don't need rebuilt
<ajmitch> but have deeper problems
<lophyte> yeah, I was planning on doing that, just waiting
<lophyte> is there a way to tell if they have deeper problems without trying to rebuild it first?
<ajmitch> generally not :)
<lophyte> ah, okie
<lophyte> then I'll wait :)
<geser> ajmitch: I've three unmet deps (simple rebuilds) waiting for an upload: bug 63220, bug 63217 and bug 63216. could you upload them?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63220 in libccscript3 "[Edgy]  Rebuild for libcommoncpp2-1.4-0 soname change" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63220
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63217 in libccrtp "[Edgy]  Rebuild for libcommoncpp2-1.4-0 soname change" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63217
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63216 in bayonne "[Edgy]  Rebuild for libcommoncpp2-1.4-0 soname change" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63216
<ajmitch> ok
<geser> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-05
<jdong> does bug 63274's last comment indicate UVFe granted?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63274 in wine "UVF exception request wine 0.9.22" [High,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63274
<geser> jdong: you need another vote (2 of 3)
<ajmitch> it needs signed off by 2 people on the UVF team, who'll then set it to confirmed
<jdong> oh, ok, thanks geser / ajmitch... I'm new to the procedure
<YokoZar> \sh_away: new bug on wine by me
<ajmitch> YokoZar: the UVF request?
<YokoZar> ajmitch: no, actually, a real bug (missing build depends)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> where is Fujitsu today?
<ajmitch> asleep or busy
<ajmitch> hi LaserJock :)
<lophyte> back
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
* ajmitch will be back in an hour or so
<LaserJock> well, I was going to try to do some dapper-updates uploading
<LaserJock> but got sucked into MOTU Management ;-)
<zul> oh you know you like it
<LaserJock> I do
<LaserJock> but it takes time away
<LaserJock> from other things
<zul> thank god the week is nearly over
<zul> i agree
<LaserJock> zul: you going to be around for a little bit?
<zul> LaserJock: ill be in and out there is a hockey game on tv
<LaserJock> heh, ok
<LaserJock> I'm working on a wiki page that I'd like a little MOTU feedback on
<LaserJock> I'm waiting for ajmitch to get back
<zul> sure ill havea look hen its done
<zul> damn it i dont get that channel...yeah ill be around :)
<LaserJock> heh
<zul> but at 9 im gone...lost is one
<zul> er..on even
<LaserJock> crimsun: I think I asked if we have a -updates policy for MOTU like StableReleaseUpdates
<crimsun> LaserJock: not that I'm aware, but it would be in our best interest to mimick it
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> ok, have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/MotuManagement
<LaserJock> I'd like to pick out specific problems/issues
<LaserJock> I know there are some pretty general ones
<crimsun> (attempting. My connection is horrible atm wrt jitter.)
<crimsun> the list looks good. Imo concentrating on prioritised tasks based on the development cycle [timetable]  would be most fruitful. Doing so would help resolve the policy documentation issue, and it would play nicely with a 'management infrastructure.'
<zul> i think the motu school sessions and the recruiting goes hand in hand
<LaserJock> well
<zul> but thats just me
<LaserJock> I really need to split up the recruiting
<LaserJock> as there are several issues there
<zul> true
<LaserJock> I'm going to try to get as many specific problems/solutions as I can
<zul> also i think people might be intimitated by the steep learning curve
<LaserJock> and then categorize and prioritize them
<zul> otherwise looks good to me so far
<LaserJock> any specific things you guys would like to add/subtract?
<zul> im not really for the focused teams bit
<LaserJock> yeah, that's why I'm trying to put pros and cons
<LaserJock> so we can look at the potential solutions
<LaserJock> and se what we want to go for
<zul> i think there might be too much for one manager maybe a commitee
<LaserJock> I personally have liked having the MOTU Science
<crimsun> I think teams are useful; we tend to gravitate toward team-based maintenance, but I concur teams aren't necessarily the most dire point(s).
<LaserJock> but I'd be really concerned about sort of splitting up of MOTU and what happens to packages that don't belong to a particular team
<LaserJock> bottom line, I feel like teams should play a definate role in MOTU but they should grow naturally and not be forced
<zul> whatever happened to the mentoring?
<LaserJock> initially I got 3 or 4
<LaserJock> and then they dropped off
<LaserJock> and I haven't gotten any since
<zul> ah
<LaserJock> I think we need to really figure out what we want to do there
<LaserJock> we didn't really push MOTU Mentoring
<LaserJock> and perhaps I didn't do a very good job of it ;-)
<crimsun> the reservation I have concerning mentoring is that it tends to reinforce 'MOTU know everything'
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I'm really struggling with that
<LaserJock> just because I'm a MOTU doesn't mean I know everything about package XYZ
<lophyte> no, but you could definitely point a mentee in the right direction to find out info about package XYZ
<lophyte> I'd assume anyway
<LaserJock> sure
<crimsun> our MOTU pool is essentially the active forum folks
<LaserJock> lophyte: but in that case, why have a Mentor when #ubuntu-motu or ubuntu-motu ML works for that
<crimsun> if people will assist us in identifying those folks [who are actively creating their own packages] , we also make some headway into recruiting
<crimsun> I think people have worked with quinn-storm, for instance
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I find there are a lot of people that are mantaining 3rd party repos/packages
<lophyte> ubuntu-motu ML?
<lophyte> oh
<lophyte> nm
<LaserJock> heh, sorry
<lophyte> took me a sec to get the acronym :P
<LaserJock> I'm not opposed to MOTU Mentors by any means
<lophyte> I think having mentors are a good idea because then you have one person who gets to know you...
<LaserJock> but I think we need to look at various "building MOTUs" projects
<LaserJock> and look at effectivness and efficiency
<lophyte> I mean, if I use the channel and ML to point me in the right direction.. I might ask person A something today, and a week later ask person B.. and person B will have no idea about my previous experience
<lophyte> whereas with mentors... the mentor knows what the mentee has done in terms of MOTU work
<LaserJock> right, and they might also give you a different answer
<lophyte> yeah
<zul> maybe look at recruiting in the forums
<LaserJock> I did a little of that with my MOTU School session
<LaserJock> got a few people to show up
<lophyte> I personally like the idea of the teams as well
<lophyte> I feel more motivated when I know there's others working with me on something.. like yesterday when a few of us said we wanted to tackle unmet deps together
<LaserJock> but to be honest. I don' think I've had a single MOTU Hopeful come out of my MOTU Mentoring or MOTU School sessions
<lophyte> what's the definition of hopeful, anyway?
<lophyte> like, what differs a hopeful from someone who's interested in becoming a MOTU but doens't have any experience
<LaserJock> somebody who is working there way towards MOTUship
<lophyte> ah
<LaserJock> some people really have no intention of becoming a MOTU
<LaserJock> I  would call them contributors in general
<LaserJock> Hopefuls are saying, I want to seriously become a MOTU and am working in that direction
<lophyte> I'd call myself a hopeful by a longshot, but a hopeful nonetheless
<LaserJock> sure
<lophyte> I think you're right when you (or whoever it was) said that newcomers will be most confused when they join mid-release
<LaserJock> so the question is, how effective is MOTU Mentors and MOTU School in producing MOTUs
<LaserJock> they are both pretty time intensive so if they aren't working we shouldn't be wasting effort
<lophyte> no idea, actually
* ajmitch returns
<lophyte> heya
<crimsun> it might be more effective, actually, to consider podcasting school sessions
<lophyte> that's a good idea
<LaserJock> hmm
<lophyte> and if there's any questions, people can contact whoever gave the session
<ajmitch> LaserJock: MOTU stuff requires a lot of practice, sadly
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> ajmitch: maybe that's a key thing
<LaserJock> maybe we aren't giving people enough practice
<bddebian> Or maybe they just don't have the drive? :)
<LaserJock> part of this push on REVU
* ajmitch is barely active as it is
<LaserJock> is that you aren't going to get much practice packaging NEW apps very fast
<LaserJock> it's good practice
<LaserJock> but you don't get a whole lot of it
<LaserJock> bddebian and ajmitch: please check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/MotuManagement
<LaserJock> if you haven't already
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes I just took a quick look
* minghua sees well-defined problems, but not many good solutions :-(
<bddebian> Wow, go LaserJock
<minghua> LaserJock: I appreciate your work on this, for sure
<LaserJock> minghua: well, first the problems, then the solutions ;-)
<LaserJock> if we had all the solutions we wouldn't have problems ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: biggest issue that crops up everywhere - time
<ajmitch> LaserJock: don't we have you as our new motu manager now? ;)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yes, time is the biggest constraint really
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
<Fujitsu> maxima works, yay.
<crimsun> excellent
<Fujitsu> I had a look at the gcl fixes since Dapper...
<Fujitsu> They're absolutely enormous.
<crimsun> I think lj found a missing if () or something
<LaserJock> yeah, it was a missing "else"
<LaserJock> I think
<zul> what the hell is maxima
<Fujitsu> That was a regression from Dapper, I believe.
<Fujitsu> zul, a Computer Algebra System.
<zul> ah
<Fujitsu> The diff for -21 (I think that was the version of the socket error fix) doesn't apply to the Dapper version, that line of code was completely rewritten. The bug was introduced when that code was rewritten.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: hmm, well I looked at that line and the only difference was a missing "else"
<Fujitsu> Dapper has -14, right?
<LaserJock> right
* Fujitsu fires up laptop... I've got the various versions on there.
<Fujitsu> What is with maxima? The .orig.tar.gz is 7.8MB, the diff.gz is like 14MB!
<LaserJock> yeah
<minghua> heh
<minghua> some autotools stuff, I suppose
<minghua> ?
<Fujitsu> I don't believe so
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> it's almost entirerly from a binutils dir
<Fujitsu> The socket write error fix was -20 -> -21... A single line change, adding an else.
<LaserJock> right
<Fujitsu> However, that line has been rewritten since -14.
<LaserJock> how so?
<zul> grr...i should stop reading the forum
<Fujitsu> I'll be back in a sec, got to go to form assembly...
<LaserJock> zul: oh no
<LaserJock> oh, I see it
<LaserJock> hmm
<ajmitch> LaserJock: pain & suffering
<LaserJock> so I wonder if putting gcl -21 into -updates would make archive-admin throw a fit
<ajmitch> why would it?
<LaserJock> it's a rather large diff
<LaserJock> and we only want a small fix I think
<Fujitsu_> LaserJock, it would make everybody collapse and die, I think.
<LaserJock> I just don't see how we are going to seperate that out
<LaserJock> finding a fix for -14 that happened in -21
<Fujitsu_> It's really non-trivial to locate, the diff is gargantuan.
<LaserJock> the tracking of -14 to -20 is the problem
<Fujitsu_> The fix in -21 ONLY affects the code from after -14.
<Fujitsu_> That bug was introduced when the line was rewritten.
<minghua> if that's the case, why doesn't dapper work already?
<Fujitsu_> There must be another bug.
<LaserJock> oh man
<LaserJock> how do you know it only affects the code after -14?
<Fujitsu_> The issue fixed in -21 is that the second bit was ALWAYS executed.
<LaserJock> k, that makes sense
<LaserJock> so it was after they rewrote that line?
<Fujitsu_> Yes.
<Fujitsu_> That bug isn't in -14, there must be another one.
<LaserJock> yucky yucky yucky
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe we should just shoot for > -21
<LaserJock> edgy seems to find it ok
<Fujitsu_> Anybody up for wading through 53881 lines of diff?
<LaserJock> not I
<minghua> LOL
<LaserJock> if it was just maxima I wouldn't have a problem with grabing the edgy version
<ajmitch> Fujitsu_: that's a bit of a silly question
<LaserJock> all maxima frontends are completely useless at the moment
<Fujitsu_> LaserJock, exactly... But it's not :(
<LaserJock> so it can only get better ;-)
<LaserJock> but gcl might effect other things
<LaserJock> I'd hate for us to introduce a regression
<LaserJock> although ...
<LaserJock> the packages in dapper would actually have to be rebuilt to have a problem with a new gcl
<LaserJock> although ...
<LaserJock> having a different version of gcl than what the packages were built on is a little creepy
<ajmitch> & is quite usual
<LaserJock> but it is -updates so people can still have the gcl version that was shipped with Dapper easily enough too
<LaserJock> bah, this stinks
<Fujitsu_> I'm looking through the diff.
<Fujitsu_> Most of it is CVS meta-data.
<LaserJock> well, I suppose we could work it up with gcl -22 and rebuild of Maxima and see if it goes through
<LaserJock> ok, I'm heading home
<LaserJock> I'll bbiab
<Fujitsu> Bye.
<Fujitsu> Only 29387 lines of non-CVS-metadata diff. Great.
<crimsun> I think that was about half of the alsa backporting work I did for dapper ;)
<Fujitsu> Ouch.
<crimsun> (it wasn't nearly as bad as it sounds)
<ajmitch> crimsun: but how many lines of that was structures, PCI ids, etc?
<crimsun> ajmitch: probably a good 3/5
<ajmitch> not so bad
<ajmitch> still a lot of code to go through
<minghua> Hmm, maxima is not in Debian testing, interesting
<imbrandon> moins all
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
* Fujitsu wades through the no longer 57881-line maxima diff.
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> hiya ajmitch
<imbrandon> howd the script run , good results ?
<imbrandon> ( i realize your probably still wadeing though it )
<imbrandon> s/good/expected/
<ajmitch> caught a few, haven't had much time at my machine to do any wading
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> cool
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'll try & upload a few more rebuilds tonight
<imbrandon> sweet, if you give me ( or post ) a list somewhere i can do some too
<imbrandon> awe man
<imbrandon> i just got the amarok 1.4.4 schedule, its to be released one day before edgy
* imbrandon grumbles
<imbrandon> looks like that will be edgy+1
<crimsun> snarf cvs/svn ;)
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> heya crimsun
<crimsun> hi
<imbrandon> feature / string freeze is in 10 days , so i could scavage svn after that for fixes
<Toadstool> 'evening
<Plug> 'earlyafternoon
<Toadstool> :)
<imbrandon> wow room droped off
<crimsun> ($time_of_day , probably)
<ehazlett> hey all, im not sure if im in the right place, but i was looking for some info on creating an alternate install cd
<Plug> Oooh. I can help you there
<ehazlett> Plug: i saw in debian a package for building cd
<ehazlett> cds with scripts, but i can't find the same for ubuntu...
<Plug> Do you want to build a CD or modify one?
<ehazlett> i would like to take a list of packages and generate an alternate install disc
<ehazlett> from scratch
<Plug> https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-cdimage
<Plug> I've never done that
<ehazlett> awesome...  thanks.
<Plug> I've customised a build CD regularly though
<Plug> in fact I'm updating mine now :)
<ehazlett> have you heard of reconstructor?
<Plug> nope
<ehazlett> ok...  just thought i would ask  :)  thanks for the help...
<Plug> it makes Live CDs?
<ehazlett> customizes the ubuntu Live cd
<ehazlett> yeah, and generates them...
<_MMA_> http://reconstructor.aperantis.com/
<_MMA_> I use it for Mubuntu.
<Plug> Cool.
<_MMA_> I just got off the phone with its dev. Hes planning on adding "Alt" cd creation.
<Plug> Cool.
<Plug> Servers don't get GUI setup discs :)
<Fujitsu_> :O
<Fujitsu_> I think I isolated the gcl patch!!!
<LaserJock> Fujitsu_: !?!
<Fujitsu> Currently rebuilding -14 to check that it wasn't just my rebuilding.
<Plug> Anyone got a script that goes through a dir of .debs and keeps on the most recent version of each (based on filename)?
<LaserJock> Plug: heh, I was just thinking the same thing
<ajmitch> Plug: nope, I just fill up my disk :)
<Plug> it'd take a bit of bash and dpkg --compare-versions
<Plug> but I'm lazy
<Plug> and am sure someone has written this already
<ajmitch> partly because I can't be bothered writing a script to cleanup, even though it'd be fairly simple
<Plug> my problem exactly!
<Plug> I should pose it as a 5 min Python problem for Isomer
<Plug> he loves those
<minghua> it's written for your APT cache, called "apt-get autoclean", but I don't know how for an arbitrary dir
<StevenK> apt-get autoclean uses its lists to determine which versions to keep.
<Plug> "apt-get autoclean removes only package files that can no longer be downloaded."
<minghua> yeah, apt-get autoclean is actually different
<minghua> it uses the Release file instead of looking which one is the newest
<Plug> What's apt-smartclean, then?
<minghua> so I suppose there is market for a new script :-)
<Plug> sounds like its for apt4rpm
<ajmitch> Plug: even better, I've got a python module that means you don't need to call out to dpkg & slow everything down
<StevenK> Linda has one, too.
<ajmitch> it sped up a script that took 10 minutes to run down to a few seconds
<ajmitch> StevenK: I borrowed it from britney
<Plug> looking good here
<StevenK> You could use python-apt, too.
<Plug> http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/apt/SuSE/9.2-i386/RPMS.suser-oc2pus/rpmkey-suser-oc2pus-0.1-0.noarch.rpm
<StevenK> Except python-apt sucks.
<ajmitch> that's just boring
<Plug> wonder if I have RPM anywhere? :)
<ajmitch> you probably do
<Plug> well, I could install it
<Plug> woop!  I can run alien on it and treat it like a package :)
<ajmitch> Plug: and be outcast
<Plug> I'm just trying to extract the script
<Plug> I dont want the package
<Plug> you thought i was goign to ask you to sponsor an alien'd rpm into universe? :)
<ajmitch> that's like people coming to us & asking if we can upload checkinstall-created .debs to universe
<ajmitch> no, I know you're not that stupid
* StevenK twitches.
<StevenK> Someone said the c word
<Fujitsu> StevenK, you missed the kick/ban button.
<Plug> I can't remember (or be bothered looking) how to manually unpack an RPM!
* StevenK isn't quite that leet.
<StevenK> Plug: rpm2cpio
<Fujitsu> It's like so:
<StevenK> cpio -i
<Fujitsu> shred -u whatever.rpm
* StevenK high fives Fujitsu
<StevenK> Just like 'rm -rf' is read mail, really fast.
<bddebian> haha
<crimsun> the best lossy compression there is
<Plug> i'm a dick
<StevenK> Hard to beat 100% compression.
<Plug> i got the RPM with his GPG key
<Plug> not the RPM with the script :)
* Plug hates RPMs a bit more
<Fujitsu> That's the spirit, Plug!
<StevenK> Hrm.
<Plug> never you mind Fujitsu, i've been hating on RPM for many years ;)
<StevenK> It looks like Edgy unmounts removeable media before suspending
<ajmitch> StevenK: probably a wise move for usb devices
<ajmitch> I don't know if they'll be powered at all when the system is suspended
<Plug> so, after all that, I actually found the home page for the program in the RPM
<Plug> http://home.tiscali.cz:8080/~cz210552/aptsmartclean.html
<Fujitsu> ...........
<Fujitsu> aptsmartclean in an... RPM!?
<ajmitch> Plug: right, a 5 minute python job..
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes?
<StevenK> ajmitch: Point.
<ajmitch> we have a centos box here, with apt
<StevenK> ajmitch: Dapper didn't do that.,
<StevenK> s/,//
<Toadstool> hi! I prepared a rpm with checkinstall and converted to a .deb with alien, can anyone upload it to universe? :p
<ajmitch> Toadstool: sure!
* Toadstool runs
<Plug> Toadstool: those belong in 'main'
<Plug> you need to go ask in #ubuntu-devel :)
<Toadstool> :)
<ajmitch> Toadstool: what's the forum URL?
* imbrandon looks for the /kick button
<Toadstool> ajmitch: heh
<StevenK> Toadstool: Sure, I'll just use the new upload tool, 'rm' instead of 'dput'
* Fujitsu writes a bot that auto-kicks on checkinstall and alien...
<Fujitsu> We need a plugin for Ubugtu to do that.
<Toadstool> Seveas: ^
<Toadstool> ;)
<bddebian> heh
<Fujitsu> gcl really does take a while to compile...
* imbrandon wonders if they make a alien for windows ....
<imbrandon> mv *.exe *.deb
<imbrandon> heh
* Fujitsu stabs imbrandon to death.
<Fujitsu> TRAITOR!
<Plug> <3
<Fujitsu> On two counts!
<Plug> this is exactly what I needed
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> wonder if it works for osx .pkg files to .deb too
<imbrandon> ;)
* Fujitsu continues to stab.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: dude, you might be getting seriously close to being the first person to have their core-dev privilages removed
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Fujitsu> HAHAHA.
<imbrandon> hahhahahaha
<bddebian> hah
* Fujitsu submits these logs to the TB... It's approaching eternally banishment from the FOSS world, I think :P
<Fujitsu> *eternal
* imbrandon stuffs Fujitsu into a .deb to shush him
* LaserJock gets out the whip and hands it to sabdfl. "Thirty lashes"
<Fujitsu> +1 LaserJock
* Fujitsu sits contentedly inside his .deb.
<imbrandon> heh
* StevenK runs alien on Fujitsu.deb and converts it to a Solaris package
<Fujitsu> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
* Fujitsu get mangled terribly.
<Fujitsu> *gets
<Fujitsu> Ooh, gcl finally finished rebuilding.
<Fujitsu> I don't know how I can possibly do any Debian packaging from inside a Solaris package, but meh.,
<ajmitch> StevenK: that is cruel
* LaserJock unpacks Fujitsu 
<LaserJock> I need him
<LaserJock> sorry guys
<Fujitsu> Thanks, LaserJock :)
<Fujitsu> Currently rebuilding maxima with the rebuild -14 gcl...
<Fujitsu> HAHAH!
<Fujitsu> It doesn't work!
<Fujitsu> I've isolated the patch!
<LaserJock> what doesn't work?
<minghua> Fujitsu rocks
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I isolated the patch, build gcl whatever-14ubuntu1, built maxima with it, it worked. I just rebuilt -14, rebuild maxima with it, and it doesn't work.
<Plug> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RemovingOldPackageVersions
<Fujitsu> So it's this nice patch here which makes it work.
<ajmitch> Plug: fancy
<Plug> its exactly what I needed.  I love when the Internet does that.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: how big is the patch
<Plug> I should learn Python.
<ajmitch> hg has some nice features
<ajmitch> Plug: I agree
<Plug> someone recommend me a good learning Python book.
<crimsun> diveintopython.
<ajmitch> and I thought you claimed to not be a coder
<Plug> ajmitch: I do
<Plug> thing is, I don't program enough to remember syntaxes or APIs
<Plug> and I don't hugely -enjoy- it
<Plug> but I do enough scripting that I bang my head against the bash wall.
* ajmitch does enough bash 
<ajmitch> python tends to be much nicer for anything substantial
<Plug> wonder if anyone in .nz will have diveintopython in dead-tree
<Plug> might be time for an Amazon order
<imbrandon> Plug, it should be on your hdd
<ajmitch> as he says, dead tree is easier reading
<imbrandon> ahh ;)
* ajmitch prefers not to read on the computer
<ajmitch> yay, new xen-3.0 built
<ajmitch> I wonder if we can get a UVF exception for this
<minghua> but it seems nobody updates diveintopython anymore
<minghua> and while I agree it's good, I still don't have a clear idea about python after reading it
<crimsun> I recommend Apress's Beginning Python or Practical Python, then
<crimsun> the former is really something nice.
<minghua> Beginning Python has 5 stars on amazon, I think I'll try that
<minghua> crimsun: thanks
<crimsun> np
<minghua> crimsun: so those two books are essentially two editions of the same book, aren't they?
<crimsun> minghua: the former is distilled from the latter, so they're not really two editions of the same book, no
<minghua> okay
<crimsun> I think the former is ... well, if I can say it, more readable
<LaserJock> cb2_Simw
<LaserJock> well, that stinks
* minghua placed the order
<imbrandon> tar -cf brandon.home.tar brandon
<imbrandon> gah
<Plug> Password:
<Plug> ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<FunnyLookinHat> Got this error when trying to install gnomesword with synaptic on edgy:
<FunnyLookinHat> gnomesword:
<FunnyLookinHat>  Depends: libsword5c2a (>=1.5.8-7) but it is not installable
<FunnyLookinHat> I didn't pastebin b/c it wa sjust a line, srry for spam
<LaserJock> FunnyLookinHat: yep, it's broke
<FunnyLookinHat> How would I go about fixing it?
<ajmitch> build-deps need updated
<LaserJock> figure out why it's broken ;-)
<ajmitch> needs a rebuild
<ajmitch> may need API changes
<FunnyLookinHat> ooh ok
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> it's broken
<FunnyLookinHat> I'm close to the dev team for project, so I'll talk with them
<LaserJock> FunnyLookinHat: that's me
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> we uploaded libsword6
<FunnyLookinHat> errr
<FunnyLookinHat> : )
<LaserJock> but gnomesword is FTBFS
<FunnyLookinHat> I'm so not with it tongith
<LaserJock> with libsword6
<ajmitch> LaserJock: isn't glasseyes maintainer of gnomesword in debian?
<LaserJock> yes
<ajmitch> sweet, upstream of gktools got back to me & has hopefully resolved licensing issues
<imbrandon> cool
<imbrandon> sometimes upstream can be slow
<ajmitch> he initially replied within an hour or two of my first mail
<ajmitch> I was impressed
<imbrandon> wow , nice
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> whereas other upstreams, I have their home phone numbers :)
<imbrandon> haha ;)
<LaserJock> I have one of my upstream cell number
<LaserJock> although I don't know why I'd call myself
<imbrandon> heh i have one too, my own ;( lol
<ajmitch> that hardly counts
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> well i have a ubuntu/canonical emplyee's number ( although like LaserJock i dunno why i would ever use it, err for that matter where i stuck it )
<ajmitch> sure, they hand them out on their business cards
<imbrandon> heh well i've never met anyone else ( other than my lug ) that uses ubuntu soooo
<LaserJock> yeah, well I got to use a Canonical employees phone so :p
<imbrandon> haha
<ajmitch> but you're a raging MOTU-holic
<ajmitch> and so being far above us mortals ;)
<crimsun> :D
<LaserJock> haha
<imbrandon> i actualy had my number and mobile on my blog for a long time, but then when i redid it i took it off, as there isnt ever really a reason to call
<nixternal> i have imbrandon's phone number, and anyone who visits the Bloomingdales in downtown Chicago, and uses the bathroom will have it too ;)
<ajmitch> haha
<imbrandon> sides if there is a emergency i'm sure its not hard to whois imbrandon.com ;)
<LaserJock> lol
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<imbrandon> i forgot i gave it to nixternal for a wakeup call the day of the MOTU tb meeting
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> but like i said its not har to whois a domain i own ;)
<nixternal> no...you gave me your number for a wakeup call for the paris sprint i thought
<ajmitch> I remember \sh calling here at about 5AM one morning since I was meant to give a MOTU school session
<LaserJock> hah
<imbrandon> nixternal, err yea it was a wakeup call for something
<nixternal> it has been in kontact for a long time
<ajmitch> of course I never heard nor answered the phone
<ajmitch> so my flatmate wondered why foreign people were calling at that hour
<nixternal> i will tell them the truth..it wasn't a wakeup call...crimsun called it the other night ;)
<imbrandon> lol ajmitch
<imbrandon> huh ?
<nixternal> oh sweety, don't play all innocent now ;)
<LaserJock> oh man
<nixternal> im going to stop
<LaserJock> I'm leaving
<nixternal> cutiecoder is in offtopic and imbrandon will get something started
<whiprush> hi guys!
<whiprush> hi ajmitch!!
<nixternal> wasabi whip!
<ajmitch> hey whiprush
<nixternal> how are the storms in ohio right now?
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<whiprush> nixternal: I am back in michigan
<imbrandon> heya whiprush
<nixternal> i will be in michigan in 2 weeks visiting my granny
<whiprush> ajmitch: good good, man, I ran into some serious directory people at ohiolinux
<whiprush> hi brandon
<ajmitch> whiprush: I envy you
<whiprush> nixternal: oh yeah, where at?
<nixternal> benton harbor area
<ajmitch> whiprush: got everything sorted for UDS as well?
<whiprush> ajmitch: they asked all the tough questions.
<whiprush> ajmitch: yep, I think so.
<nixternal> <voice style="icecube">southwest side</voice>
<whiprush> I wish my more technical friends would be more involved though, they'd do a better job than have me bumbling around trying to figure this out.
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> hmm, we need a "MOTU Wants You!" poster with dholbach on it ;-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> what the guy saying in -devel?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock:
<Fujitsu>  1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 10 deletions(-)
<LaserJock> excelllent
<Fujitsu> The file in question is file.d.
<Fujitsu> And the patch can be reduced even further I believe.
<Fujitsu> As there are two distinct parts....
<Fujitsu> One of them is just changing the variable holding a PID from an int to a long, which can easily be obliterated :)
<Fujitsu> I can reduce the patch to 3 modifications and 5 additions trivially.
<Fujitsu> But I'm off home now, I'll be back in about 45 minutes.
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
<Fujitsu> Ah fsck. The two external machines I use for build-testing are... not connectable.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, nother 2 days give or take i'll have mine back up for ya ( and Hobbsee )
<Fujitsu> Ah, OK, thanks :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<Fujitsu> Is that the one with the hard drive failure?
<imbrandon> yea
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yay :)
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<Fujitsu> Unfortunately, Burgundavia's machine also seems to not be too responsive at this time.
<imbrandon> i can build test something if you wish though on my ppc, its just slow for large builds
<imbrandon> but horatio only runs a dapper livecd atm heh
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<Fujitsu> No, I'll just build it here, hopefully...
<imbrandon> ;)
<Fujitsu> This build generally takes about two hours, unfortunately.
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> for what ?
<Fujitsu> Or well over one hour.
<Fujitsu> gcl
<Fujitsu> It is gigantic.
<imbrandon> koffice takes about 3.5 on horatio
<StevenK> I remember vtk taking an hour on liquified
<imbrandon> thats the bigest thing i build on any kinda normalk basis
<Fujitsu> Simply extracting the source archive takes more than a minute (14MiB .diff.gz)
<StevenK> (Which is nothing to sneeze at, being a 3GHz amd64)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, but that's KDE.
<imbrandon> heh kde its self ( kdebase and kdelibs ) dont take that long to build
<imbrandon> ~30 minutes or so
<imbrandon> its koffice and gcc that takes forever ( for me )
<Fujitsu> Yeah..
<imbrandon> never timed gcc but it take a good while
<LaserJock> well, I did gcl on my 1.3GHz P4
<LaserJock> that took a bit
<imbrandon> and funny enough, i have no idea why but kvirc take longer to build than kdebase
<imbrandon> kvirc takes FOREVER , like 1+ hours
<imbrandon> for just an irc client
<Fujitsu> Useless.
* imbrandon wont be merging that next time if i can help it
<Fujitsu>  1 file changed, 8 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)
<Fujitsu> That's my final patch.
<StevenK> Oh, nice.
<imbrandon> yea useless considering there is like 1 whole user of kvirc i think
<Fujitsu> Now, this had better work...
<StevenK> ia64 build of vtk 5.0.1-1 in ubuntu edgy RELEASE
<StevenK> Build finished:   2006-09-02 10:42:40 EST (2 hours 30 minutes)
<imbrandon> and its not even me
<Fujitsu> StevenK, nice.
<imbrandon> wow
<StevenK> It's nice having a machine quicker than an Itantic buildd
<imbrandon> heh yea
<imbrandon> itaniums are slow but stable from what i've seen ( stable only becouse most of the time they only run mission critical software that would make a 286 stable )
* StevenK remembers the first Itanium he saw, at LCA 2002.
<imbrandon> i've only seen 1 or 2 , and that was at my old job, they got sold and phased out pretty fast
<StevenK> It managed to heat up the outside of my bag from 2 metres away.
<imbrandon> hahaha
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: my machine is currently off, that is why
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, that'd do it :)
<imbrandon> heya Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: it will be back on as of tomorrow, for a few days while I am in boston. I need to buy a quieter power supply so I can sleep with it on
<Burgundavia> hey imbrandon
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, thanks for that response to 37169. I was about to say the same thing when I noticed your comment :)
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, aha.
<StevenK> Burgundavia: I solved that problem - I put the computers in another room.
<Burgundavia> StevenK: I don't have another room
* StevenK is lucky enough to have an entire house.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: mhm
<Fujitsu> As you probably noticed, I got fed up with the Thiloisms, so reversed a number of them.
<LaserJock> heh
* Fujitsu files a wishlist bug on Malone.
<Laser_away> night everybody
<Fujitsu> It'd be nice to have a visible indication as to the upstream state of a bug (ie. whether it isn't known to affect, affects, or has been forwarded).
<Fujitsu> 'night, Laser_away.
<Fujitsu> O_o
<Fujitsu> This Pentium M 1.6 is compiling a lot faster than the P4 2.8 I was on before.
<imbrandon> heh
<dholbach> good morning
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<dholbach> heya imbrandon
<crimsun> these forum posts are bewildering
<Fujitsu> crimsun, which?
<crimsun> jdong pointed me to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=270676 , saying the bugfix wasn't correct (?)
<crimsun> one of lodp and jdong is clearly misled
<laska> hello room. I'm looking for help with installing something for FF in ubuntu to watch live radio
<crimsun> it can't simultaneously work and /not/ work
<crimsun> 'morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey guys
<dholbach> hey crimsun
<laska> is  anyone have any suggestions
* dholbach hugs crimsun
* dholbach hugs crimsun
* dholbach hugs crimsun
* crimsun hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> :)
<crimsun> you've got the crazy desktop boogs :)
<imbrandon> boogs hehe
<dholbach> hehe :)
* StevenK wonders if he could see how many bugs he's commented on/fixed in the last few days.
<imbrandon> heh
<Lathiat> 'karma' :)
<imbrandon> yea but i dont think you can see actual bugs
<ajmitch> StevenK: not enough
<StevenK> ajmitch: Pfff
* StevenK reads firebird2's debian/rules and twitches violently.
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~/ubuntu/firebird2/firebird2-1.5.3.4870% wc -l debian/patches/* | tail -n 1 57275 total
<StevenK> Oooh, now I have a warm and cosy feeling, too.
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> class
* StevenK twitches more.
<ajmitch> special
<StevenK> # Initialize k to one
<StevenK> k=0
<ajmitch> haha!
* Lathiat giggles
<ajmitch> that's an interesting definition of 1
<StevenK> Indeed.
<imbrandon> lol
<minghua> there are so many old dapper bugs that only have me, the reporter, and ubuntu-bugs as subscriber :-(
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, the new Xffm (4.5.0) is now modular and all its modules are in edgy, but I'd like to update the xffm4 (currently 4.3.3.1) package to move it into a metapackage. Do I need to fill an UVF bug for this?
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: that's main, no?
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, no, universe
<dholbach> oh?
<Gloubiboulga> yep, it's the old file manager
<ajmitch> thunar replaced it, didn't it?
<Gloubiboulga> which can browse samba network (thunar can't)
<Gloubiboulga> ajmitch, yes, but a lot of users want to use samba, and there's no plugin for thunar yet
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: i trust your judgement and I know that you will fix bugs that are introduced by the update, but i'd still like to see a changelog - does that make sensen?
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, well, everything is in the repos already, but it's split in 8 packages
<dholbach> oh, now I understand
* ajmitch has to pull up a changelog for xen-3.0 stuff..
<dholbach> sure that's fine - go ahead
<Gloubiboulga> thanks
<ajmitch> which is a little hard :)
* Gloubiboulga is almost happy with his new multibuild.mk class :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: I've got xen-3.0 here - update is from rc1 to rc2, but they don't really supply any changelog
<dholbach> ajmitch: hrm, any NEWS file? any git log or something?
<ajmitch> hg log, I'll attach that
<ajmitch> I've got the diffstat now after filtering out the .hg stuff
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> gracias
<ajmitch> the package is also much much smaller since I exported it from hg, rather than including all the hg metadata :)
<dholbach> oh :-)
<dholbach> ajmitch: did you chat with zul about the update?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> 11:28 <ajmitch> is there an rc2 tarball released, or just hg?
<ajmitch> 11:28 <zul> i think there is a tarball have to check
<ajmitch> 11:28 <zul> if you want to upload it go ahead
<dholbach> ok cool
* ajmitch has been helping him a little with some of these packages
<ajmitch> dholbach_: ok, assigned to uvf team now :)
<dholbach_> super
<StevenK> ajmitch: Does that mean you can approve your own UVF exception?
<ajmitch> StevenK: no, I don't think I would
<ajmitch> there needs to be 2 approvals anyway
* StevenK wonders if he should read that as, "I don't really trust myself."
<ajmitch> more that "it wouldn't be fair for others"
<Fujitsu> How likely is it that a backported fix for gcl will get into Dapper, fixing the (w)xmaxima-doesn't-work-at-all bug? I believe it comes under the `severe regressions' category on StableReleaseUpdates, and a large number of people have asked for it to be fixed...
<ajmitch> ask dholbach when he's back - we don't have a set policy at the moment for universe updates
<Fujitsu> OK.
<ajmitch> I'll happily support it if the fix is small & sane
<Fujitsu> I've finally isolated the gcl patch... Death to all 58000-line diffs!
<Fujitsu> Yeah, 3 modifications, 5 insertions.
<ajmitch> it may be that the uvf team ends up handling -updates as well
<Fujitsu> And we finally get maxima working!
<ajmitch> we'll try & arrange something :)
<Fujitsu> dholbach!
<Fujitsu> <Fujitsu> How likely is it that a backported fix for gcl will get into Dapper, fixing the (w)xmaxima-doesn't-work-at-all bug? I believe it comes under the `severe regressions' category on StableReleaseUpdates, and a large number of people have asked for it to be fixed...
<Fujitsu> (ajmitch said you're the person to ask)
<ajmitch> dholbach: apparantly mdz is fine with MOTUs sorting out something amongst ourselves for -updates
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, that's a good idea.
<ajmitch> we've just not really had anything formal in place, like the UVF team
<dholbach> ajmitch: anything specific you're referring to?
<ajmitch> dholbach: pushing stuff to dapper-updates
<dholbach> yeah... anything specific?
<ajmitch> gcl, as Fujitsu is asking
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> ajmitch: it'd be nice if we'd get stuff tested
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> that's somewhat critical
<Fujitsu> Of course.
<ajmitch> 07:47 < LaserJock> mdz: ^^? or do you want MOTUs to decide that?
<ajmitch> 07:48 < mdz> LaserJock: the latter
<ajmitch> 07:49 < mdz> though I strongly recommend using StableReleaseUpdates or something very close to it
<ajmitch> in response to a question about the SRU policy
<Fujitsu> It'd be nice if StableReleaseUpdates actually said it was for main/restricted only.
<dholbach> we should decide on a workflow
<dholbach> and add notes to wiki/SRU once we decided it
<ajmitch> I think Laser_away is calling for a MOTU meeting sometime soon
<Fujitsu> Anyway... gcl needs a very small (3 modifications, 5 insertions) patch backported, and maxima needs a rebuild, and (w)xmaxima's unworkiness is fixed.
<dholbach> do -updates build against -updates?
<ajmitch> afaik they do
<Fujitsu> I'd presume they would.
<ajmitch> but I don't know how many libs or similar we've had through updates to test that
<Fujitsu> Sounds like a #-devel question.
<ajmitch> wow
<ajmitch> about 50 packages on the unmet deps list are gnustep related
<azeem> call for a gnustep team :)
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> there are UVF exceptions being looked at which will fix all these
<ajmitch> so it's a good justification to get the UVF done
<imbrandon> gnustep ? litestep like ?
<ajmitch> like nextstep, or openstep :)
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> heh how ironic
<ajmitch> how so?
* imbrandon is compiling powerpc gcc for i386 in a chroot on an amd64
<imbrandon> cuz my i386 is livecd only atm heh
<ajmitch> you're still working on that
<imbrandon> well i quit the other day when my hdd died
<ajmitch> you're 'braver' than I thought ;)
<imbrandon> but i made a 386 chroot on the amd64 and decided to start over
<imbrandon> as long as this compiles this time its the last step
<imbrandon> and /should/ all work
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> everything else i have done afaik
<ajmitch> famous last words
<imbrandon> lol yea
<imbrandon> the last thing before my hdd crashed i got to was gcc compiled but once it got to the making of the deb it complained about striping or soemthing
<imbrandon> and only made one of the debs, but i was tired and went to sleep and then woke to a broken puter ;(
<imbrandon> sooo i'm back to that point now
<ajmitch> masochist
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> this person "Nikita Youshchenko <yoush@cs.msu.su>" dosent happen to hang on irc do they ?
<azeem> imbrandon: https://launchpad.net/people/yoush doesn't indicate they are
<imbrandon> hum ok thanks
<imbrandon> guess i'll just patch it and send them a email
<imbrandon> one of the dpkg-cross scripts needed a cupple additions and had this comment in it ....
<imbrandon> # This list is far from being complete ...
<imbrandon> # Please send additions to Nikita Youshchenko <yoush@cs.msu.su>
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> couple*
<dholbach> what about having a MOTU meeting soon
<dholbach> Uni/Multiverse SRU and edgy release-prep should be on the agenda
<dholbach> ... at least ...
<imbrandon> dholbach, i'm all for it , just name a time as far as i'm concerned
<dholbach> monday 14 UTC?
<imbrandon> looks ok to me , nothing else is on the schedule on the fridge for that time
<imbrandon> but i'm just one person ;)
* imbrandon looks arround at Laser_away,ajmitch,crimsun,Hobbsee,Fujitsu anyone else awake ?
* Hobbsee is awake
<Fujitsu> I am ,yes.
<dholbach> ^ :)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: midnight monday, isnt it?
* Hobbsee was calculating
* Fujitsu looks...
<Hobbsee> @now utc
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 05 2006, 09:45:25
<Hobbsee> @now sydney
<Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: October 05 2006, 19:45:30
<Fujitsu> Yeah, 2400...
<Fujitsu> Midnight Monday.
<Hobbsee> ah, yeah.
* Hobbsee is dodgy with timezones.
<Hobbsee> that's doable.  ish.
<dholbach> cool, I thought so ;)
<Fujitsu> Yeah, it is doable, just.
* Hobbsee seems to stay awake that late anyway :P
<ajmitch> imbrandon: what you want?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: nasty for you, with school the next day :P
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: will find it horrible
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, yeah, owwwww.
<imbrandon> ajmitch, input from dholbach time for a MOTU meeting
<ajmitch> dholbach: no chance I'll be there at 1400UTC
<Fujitsu> Year 12 exams in two weeks! Yay!
<dholbach> ajmitch: what time would you prefer?
<ajmitch> little chance you'll find a time that suits everyone though
<dholbach> 14:00 utc is 7:00 for the east coast of the us
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: fun.
<dholbach> west coast
<ajmitch> & it's 3AM for the single kiwi MOTU
<dholbach> maybe I miscalculated
<dholbach> oh well
<dholbach> pick another time ;-)
<Fujitsu> And midnight for us three eastern Aussies. Poor ajmitch :(
<ajmitch> you don't need me for the meeting
<ajmitch> anytime that's convenient for me will be very inconvenient for people in the US
<dholbach> ok, let's go with 14 then
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: 3am?  why not 2am?
<ajmitch> ok, I'll read the logs :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: because I'm at work at 9AM
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i realise that.  i thought you were 2 hours out from us
<ajmitch> 3 at the moment
<ajmitch> daylight savings started on sunday
<imbrandon> dholbach, want me to add it to the fridge calendar ( i'm sure you will email -motu )
<dholbach> imbrandon: I'll mail fridge-devel also
<imbrandon> dholbach, i can add it right now
<ajmitch> I know that Laserjock was wanting a meeting - make sure that it's an OK time for him
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: ahhh...
<ajmitch> as long as the active MOTUs are there, it'll be ok :)
<dholbach> mailed
<ajmitch> dholbach: thanks
<ajmitch> if I'm really brave, I might go to bed early that night & get up for the meeting
<esputo>  hello, I would like to create a dapper server iso with updated packages, I've been reading arround but I get stuck on the creation of "Packages" files under /dists/ directory, is there any tool for that?
<dholbach> esputo: no need to ask in several channels - I'd try #ubuntu+1 for support questions like that.
<ajmitch> time for me to sleep
<sivang> night ajmitch
<imbrandon> gnight ajmitch, maybe tomarrow gcc will be done ;)
<sivang> ajmitch: got the list , just before you drop? :-)
<TheMuso> How long is the meeting expected to go for?
<esputo> Ok dholback, I'll do that
<imbrandon> TheMuso, i put it on the fridge for an hour since one wasent specified
<TheMuso> Right.
<dholbach> TheMuso: we try to be brief - that's what i wrote in the mail
<TheMuso> dholbach: Yeah I saw that.
* TheMuso thinks he will stay up after midnight to attend.
<dholbach> super
<Fujitsu> I will too... I hope the parents won't kill me for it :)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, flashlight + laptop under the covers like a kid with a book ;)
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<Fujitsu> They weren't particularly happy when I got up at 0530 for the TB meeting, of course.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Have you explained Linux/Ubuntu/free software to them at all?
<Fujitsu> Oh, of course.
<TheMuso> Why weren't they happy?
<Fujitsu> My father introduced me to it, several years ago...
<Fujitsu> I got up too early, apparently.
<TheMuso> Ah right.
<TheMuso> hehe. I have all my computer stuff in my room, which is enough to keep people out, as it can get noisy when I have everything on, and the alpha makes enough noise on its own. :)
<ajmitch> sivang: before I sleep, I'm working on it :P
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, ooh... An Alpha! Nice.
<sivang> ajmitch: heh :)
<sivang> ajmitch: you can work on it tomorrow as well
<sivang> ajmitch: there's no rush ;-)
<ajmitch> sivang: except release
* ajmitch has a partly annotated list, will try & put this on the wiki tomorrow
<ajmitch> just to keep some notes
<ajmitch> now I really need sleep
<Fujitsu> See ya, ajmitch.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Did you see the dreamhost bonus?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yeah it is nice. I use it for IRC/DNS/DHCP.
<TheMuso> But the debian install on it is somewhat screwed atm, so it needs a re-install. :)
<StevenK> Re-install Debian?
<StevenK> Who does such a thing?
<TheMuso> StevenK: When one experiments with stuff so much as it screws critical parts of the os. :p
<TheMuso> And a majorly corrupt filesystem.
<StevenK> Whee
<xopher> TheMuso, how can I obtain a cloak like yours for my hostname?
<TheMuso> xopher: Are you an Ubuntu member?
<xopher> Well how do I register if Im not? Ive registered at launchpad and at the forums..
<minghua> xopher: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<xopher> thank you
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yea sorry eating dinner
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Sounds like a late dinner.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yea they gave me 200GB space and 4TB transfer now
<imbrandon> hehe yea i keep weird hours ;)
<TheMuso> I'll bet a dreamhost user or two will try and use that.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, haha yea i was thinking of putting a rsync of the ubuntu archive
<imbrandon> or atleaste the cdimage
<imbrandon> thats 110GB ;)
<imbrandon> but i run a local apt-mirror so i'll probably only mirror the cdimage and torrents
<imbrandon> anyhow back to dinner bbiab
<Adri2000> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> Adri2000: pong
<Adri2000> you assigned bug 63964 to me
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63964 in xmoto "UVF exception request: xmoto 0.2.2-1" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63964
<dholbach> yeah, as motu-uvf no longer "has anything to do with it"
<Adri2000> what do you want me to do? I can't upload :p
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ explains how to get that done
<dholbach> :-)
<Adri2000> ok
<cuco> hi, i am building a package for ubuntu, which needs to create some mysql tables. on debian, i used the extra file: debian.cnf. this does not work on ubuntu. any ideas whay can i do...?
<cuco> the question is, how do i install sql tables from postinst scripts ...?
<freeflying> cuco: debconf?
<cuco> debconf is just the way to ask the user some questions. it does not help me in this place.
<cuco> ..right...?
<kristog> cuco: right! use postinst
<cuco> yes, i am doying this on the post install...
<cuco> but... if the user has a root password for the mysql server this will fail..
<kristog> could you paste it somewhere
<lionelp> cuco: it is not nice to use the debian.cnf file
<cuco> this is why (at least on debian etch and sarge) you have an extra configuration file, which can be used to override the permissions
<lionelp> cuco: you should ask a root password in your postinst with debconf
<cuco> lionelp: that ugly ... :(
<kristog> cuco: uhm ok, you have 2 solution 1) use debconf for know the pw 2) write a script and put it in /doc
<lionelp> why ?
<lionelp> your package is not necessary on the mysql server
<cuco> what do you mean, not on the mysql server...?
<cuco> just be be sure: the debian.cnf files does not work on ubunut
<kristog> your package is useful without the mysql server?
<cuco> no
<lionelp> your application is not always set up on the machine that run the mysql server ?
<cuco> the application,works best on the server which runs the mysql server
<cuco> the application,works best on the machine running the mysql server (not native english speaker, sorry)
<lionelp> why best ?
<lionelp> What kind of application it is ? Most of applications that use mysql can use it through the network
<cuco> freepbx
<cuco> this is an asterisk configuration web interface
<lionelp> cuco: okay, I know it
<cuco> lionelp: the packages i wrote, work on sarge and etch. now i am trying to install them on ubuntu.
<cuco> (mc is in universe...? wow...)
<lionelp> In that case, I see no reason why the system where freepbx is installed should have the privilege to create a database on the server
<lionelp> (yes mc is in universe)
<cuco> then how will it work..? this means that the package (by default) will depend on an external mysql server
<kristog> cuco: if you don't need the server i guess you will need the client
<kristog> (at last)
<lionelp> no nee for the server absolutely
<lionelp> you only depends on php*-mysql module
<lionelp> s/nee/need/
<cuco> lionelp: that is a package dependency. the gui still needs to store it's data.
<lionelp> cuco: a package dependance on mysql-server ?
<cuco> yes, a virtual-mysql-server is supported, which means you don't have to install the sql server on trhe same machine.
<cuco> but i want to support the trivial scenario, in which a user "apt-get install freepbx" - and evrything works.
<lionelp> cuco: it is only for your needs or for distributing ?
<cuco> anyway, only the grant command fails. all other commands (create, and the newinstall.sql) work.
<cuco> lionelp: lets start with the easy scenario, me
<lionelp> cuco: ok, you better know your needs than me ;)
<cuco> ok, lets ask again, a more specific question:
<lionelp> cuco: the user in debian.cnf has no right to do the grant
<lionelp> that is absolutely right
<cuco> ok, how do i workarround this...?
<cuco> (asking the root password via debconf)
<lionelp> cuco: or change the rights for the user in debian.cnf (i would not do) or ask the password via debconf
<cuco> changing the rights of the user in debian.cnf is non standard, not a good idea. debconf seems the best way...
<lionelp> cuco: agree
<cuco> ok, cool. lets say i have the packages working, what should i do to get them into ubuntu...?
<lionelp> cuco: hum... wait Edgy+1 :)
<lionelp> we are now in Freeze due to the proximity of the release
<cuco> ok. not a problem for me.
<lionelp> when Edgy+1 is opened, put your package on REVU
<lionelp> You will find some documentation on the wiki (see URL in the topic)
* cuco rtfms
<lionelp> cuco: there is an ITP on Debian, are you the one who have done it ?
<cuco> lionelp: i don't have an official ITP, but the package is already on pkg-voip's svn.
<cuco> lionelp: the package will not get into etch.
<lionelp> cuco: ok
<lionelp> cuco: if your package is uploaded in Debian, it will be automaticaly included in Ubuntu
<cuco> lionelp: apparently upstream is going to handle the packaging as well, as it seems they do not like what happened to trixbox
<lionelp> trixbox is the old asterisk@home right ?
<cuco> yes
<cuco> lionelp: sorry, konversation crashed. first time i seen it :)
<cuco> did you get my "yes"?
<lionelp> cuco: yes
<cuco> ok, i will work on this probably next week
<cuco> how do i check out if a script is runing on ubuntu or debian...?
<kristog> cuco: why not 2 build?
<kristog> cuco: or check sources.list
<cuco> kristog: that is 3 different package versions, not 2.
<cuco> kristog: sarge, etch (and sid) and then also ubuntu
<cuco> checking sources.list is not smaty, what if people from the other distro add a secondary apt source...?
<cuco> dpkg -l base-files| grep ubuntu ...?
<kristog> why build a package for sarge and for etch?
<cuco> kristog: no, the same package for both distros
<Hobbsee> cuco: cat /etc/lsb-release
<cuco> Hobbsee: not available on sarge, etch. (also not in centos). might be a good idea...
<cuco> Hobbsee: but still not deterministic enough for my taste
<StevenK> if [ -f /etc/lsb-release ] ; then ...
<cuco> it's debian? or ubuntu...? what if debian add this file sometime...?
<StevenK> It won't contain Ubuntu in it.
<Hobbsee> cuco: ahh
<cuco> if grep ubuntu /etc/lsb-release; then echo "ubuntu"; else echo "debian"; di
<StevenK> grep -q
<cuco> of course.
<StevenK> Ubuntu, too
<cuco> says debian here, works as expected.
<cuco> if grep -q -i ubuntu /etc/lsb-release; then echo "ubuntu"; else echo "debian"; di
<StevenK> s/di/fi/
<cuco> if grep -q -i ubuntu /etc/lsb-release 2> /dev/null; then echo "ubuntu"; else echo "debian"; fi
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% if grep -q -i ubuntu /etc/lsb-release; then echo "ubuntu"; else echo "debian"; fi
<StevenK> ubuntu
<cuco> ok, this does seem to work, but dam ugly.
<StevenK> Why do are you trying to determine it, anyway?
<StevenK> s/do //
<cuco> StevenK: for the freepbx package. on ubuntu it should ask for a mysql root password, but on debian it's not needed.
* StevenK blinks.
<StevenK> I can't think of why.
<cuco> sorry, i am not following you
<StevenK> Why do you need to prompt on Ubuntu, and not Debian?
<realist> Isn't the mysql root passwd usually left blank?
<cuco> because on ubuntu i cannot grant permission on a mysql database without any passowrd
<cuco> realist: that's lame no...?
<realist> Otherwise most packages will ask you for it
* realist shrugs
<StevenK> cuco: You shouldn't be able to do that on Debian either.
<cuco> realist: look half an hour ago, me and lionelp were talking about it
<realist> I always set one, doesn't mean you *have* to
<thom> cuco: um, i'd be shocked if there was any difference between ubuntu and debian
<cuco> StevenK: works on sarge and etch
<cuco> thom: cool.
* StevenK waves to thom.
* thom nods StevenK 
<Tonio_> hi
<Tonio_> StevenK: may I take 3 minutes of your time ?
<StevenK> Um.
<StevenK> Probably
<Tonio_> StevenK: I'm intended to package wengophoneNG since version 2.0 is out since yesterday
* Hobbsee removes StevenK's desk before he headdesks
<Tonio_> Hobbsee told me you already played with it
<StevenK> Tonio_: A new package, or a new version?
* StevenK has just spent about an hour fixing the damn thing to actually build.
<Tonio_> StevenK: well as 2.0 is very different from classic, I would probably suggest a new package
<StevenK> Tonio_: Then I have no problems.
<StevenK> Tonio_: Since it doesn't affect the work I just did.
<Tonio_> StevenK: what are you working on ? I don't wanna duplicate your stuff
<StevenK> Tonio_: 0.99+svn4511-4ubuntu3 FTBFS, I was fixing it
<Tonio_> StevenK: ah okay
<Tonio_> StevenK: thanks for the info
<StevenK> Tonio_: I can send you my debian/rules patch - the same problems may bite you.
<Tonio_> StevenK: yes, definitly
<Tonio_> StevenK: tonio@ubuntu.com
<StevenK> Tonio_: Aye, I'll just finish checking that my build is sane.
<Tonio_> StevenK: okay
<StevenK> Tonio_: Sent
<Tonio_> StevenK: perfect, thanks a lot
<StevenK> No problems
* StevenK uploads it
<lophyte> morning everyone
<AnAnt> anyone here ?
<AnAnt> I have a question
<azeem> just ask
<AnAnt> I was packaging tss (terminal screen saver)
<AnAnt> the problem is that it includes artwork that the author of doesn't know their license
<AnAnt> his screen saver is GPL since he did it
<AnAnt> but the artwork is the problem
<AnAnt> what should I do about that ?
<AnAnt> shall I remove them from orig tarball or what ?
<AnAnt> or ask him to do so ?
<AnAnt> for example ask him to provide a tarball for tss & tarball for the Ascii art (ie the artwork)
<AnAnt> azeem: ?
<azeem> azeem: I just suggested you should just ask your question, I didn't say I could answer it or would even have the time to look at it :)
<azeem> eh, s/azeem/AnAnt/
<AnAnt> k
<azeem> I don't know how Ubuntu handles artwork licenses, really
<azeem> sorry
<thom> i'd remove them from the tarball and recommend that he do the same
<thom> azeem: same as debian in general, but without the "help" of debian-legal
<azeem> thihi
<azeem> thom: before or after the current GR? ;)
<thom> i am pretending that GR doesn't exist in the hopes it'll go away
<thom> i find debian works much better when i take the "fingers in ears and whistle" approach
<azeem> totally
<azeem> just watch out you stay next to Sledge, or you'll get lost like keybuk
<AnAnt> k , thanks
<thom> heh
<tepsipakki> could someone sync libpam-krb5 from debian? edgy has the same version as dapper
<tepsipakki> arf
<tepsipakki> freeze
<AnAnt_> is the MOTU meeting about Edgy or Edgy+1 ?
<Hobbsee> both, probably
<AnAnt_> will the result of that meeting be published on web ?
<AnAnt_> at 14:00 GMT I will be in the bus going home !
<Hobbsee> it'll likely go for a while
<Hobbsee> of course it will
<AnAnt_> k
<AnAnt_> thanks
<tepsipakki> ok, I filed #64189 against libpam-krb5. hopefully it makes it in, works fine also with dapper ;)
<lophyte> hey superm1
<superm1> hey
<lophyte> how's it going?
<superm1> well i've been working at this bug with myth
<superm1>  bug 63485
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63485 in rhythmbox "Rhythmbox's cover art plugin should support cover.jpg files like other GNOME music players" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63485
<superm1>  bug 63486
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63486 in mythplugins "mythphone causes mythfrontend seg fault on amd64" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63486
<lophyte> ah
<lophyte> I've never used myth before
<superm1> while i was working at it, I've been struggling to fix the packaging to generate mythtv-debug again
<superm1> since when we merged to 0.20, those pieces were lost
<superm1> but i'm not sure that dh_strip will properly do it anymore since myth actually has a compile target for debug
<superm1> but i've been away from the web, so i've been stuck doing this offline for now
<superm1> hows -motu been treating you the last two days?
<lophyte> I've been wanting to work on some unmet deps.. ajmitch rebuilt all the packages and I figured he'd post up a list of packages that are really broken and not just in need of rebuilding
<superm1> did he ever post that list?
<lophyte> he said he hasn't gone through it yet
<superm1> well it was a fairly large list, is he still building?
<lophyte> nope.. only took him a couple of hours apparentl
<superm1> oh hm
<sistpoty> hi folks
<superm1> hi sistpoty
<lophyte> other than unmet deps, though, I'm not quite sure what to do
<lophyte> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi superm1, lophyte
<superm1> sistpoty, perhaps you could help with a question for me.  The old myth packaging produced a mythtv-debug package by using dh_strip on all the libraries.  I'm reluctant to bring this up to the newer packaging because the newer packaging has a --compile-type=debug option which I'm thinking does more then just leave debugging symbols.  What is the appropriate thing to do in this case?
<sistpoty> superm1: the -dbg package only contains (and should contain) the debug symbols, however you can drop this, since lp should produce debug symbols itself now
<superm1> oh it does?  how can I obtain the symbols from lp then?
<sistpoty> superm1: haven't tried myself yet... there should be some info in the ubuntu-devel ml (or ubuntu-devel-announce ml), from Martin Pitt (pitti)
<superm1> Okay. i'll take a look around
<superm1> how do we phase out the current mythtv-debug package then?
<superm1> its a version behidn the version of the rest of the suite and un-necessary at this point
<sistpoty> superm1: just drop it in debian/control and remove the --dbg from dh_strip (or s.th. like that)... that should imo do the trick
<superm1> well its not currently listed in debian/control, but it is still available through apt, just the old version shows up
<sistpoty> superm1: ah, ok. then you should file a bug and subscribe ubuntu-archive, to remove that very binary package
<superm1> Ok then
<sistpoty> hey dholbach: great to have a motu-meeting again :)
<sistpoty> not quite sure, if I'll make it though... final exam on next wednesday :/ (and I really should be learning right now *g*)
<dholbach> hey sistpoty
<dholbach> sistpoty: great to have you here :-)
<sistpoty> :)
<LaserJock> oh nice
<LaserJock> 7am for me :-)
<LaserJock> sistpoty and dholbach: can I get you guys to look over https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/MotuManagement
<sistpoty> hey LaserJock
<sistpoty> LaserJock: give me a few minutes ;)
<superm1> sistpoty, I found the email Martin mentioned if you were curious to read thru it again http://archives.free.net.ph/message/20060705.101916.8b92c5c8.en.html
<sistpoty> :)
<dholbach> LaserJock: who and what is the document intended for?
<dholbach> i'm out for a quick walk now - brb
<superm1> after reading about this automatic debug symbol building, I gotta say it looks very promissing, especially if LP already knows about it
<sistpoty> LaserJock: just read through this... nice work!
<sistpoty> LaserJock: I like the idea of a motu manager
<LaserJock> well, right now I'm looking a just identifying problems we are facing
<LaserJock> and potential solutions
<LaserJock> probably a MOTU Manager can alleviate a lot of the problems simply by  doing a bit of leg work to generate task lists
<LaserJock> and make sure everybody is aware of policies and deadlines
<sistpoty> LaserJock: not just that... sometimes I feel that we motu's are a kind of headless crowd :)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: do you have anything to add to the list?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> like a bunch of ants busily running around ;-)
<sistpoty> LaserJock: not currently... but I'll think about it ;)
<sistpoty> yes
<LaserJock> the thing I think would be important though
<LaserJock> is to seperate the MOTU Manager from the higher level technical stuff (UVFe team, etc.)
<LaserJock> what tends to happen is really good MOTUs get more and more put on them
<LaserJock> and then they have to choose between the technical work and the community work
<sistpoty> LaserJock: that
<sistpoty> +'s true
<LaserJock> so more of a CC and TB style
<superm1> having a MOTU Manager would be quite a time commitment for someone to take up
<LaserJock> yes, it would
<LaserJock> although it perhaps wouldn't be too bad
<superm1> but in their definition, it better be posted what they are for and arent for to guarantee that things stay working smoothly
<superm1> like you said choosing between community and technical work is probably what gives the most stress
<superm1> would MOTU hopefuls be joining these focused teams, or just hovering where needed?
<LaserJock> well, the Teams already exist
<LaserJock> and are certainly open to Hopefuls
<LaserJock> the proposal was to use the more
<superm1> I hadn't even realized there was any teams other then the MOTU-Media team and the uvfe team
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams
<superm1> yea good to see :)
<superm1> with only having 55 MOTUs though, will adding more teams help that much?
<LaserJock> no, the proposal is not to add more teams
<LaserJock> but to *use* teams
<superm1> ah
<LaserJock> I wonder if dholbach is back yet
<LaserJock> Mr. Barry!
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi LaserJock
<sistpoty> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: haha, that's got to be one of my favorite logout messages
<LaserJock> "A patch in time saves kill -9"
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock> heh
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock> Dont you feel the bug list for Ubuntu-Science packages on Edgy has been very less?? :D
<bddebian> I like Casanova's too
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock> Infact most of them that are ingering around are dapper
<dholbach> LaserJock: he is
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> dholbach: this wiki page is something we thought of the other day. I'm listing MOTU problems and potential solutions
<LaserJock> dholbach: I'd like to present this at a MOTU Meeting and perhaps get some input from Jono
<dholbach> Ok nice
<dholbach> it's all perfectly valid
<LaserJock> dholbach: my first goal was to simply list problems in as much detail
<LaserJock> then get a set of solutions together
<LaserJock> and prioritize
<dholbach> Ok nice
<dholbach> :)
<LaserJock> so at the moment I'm wanting to check with other MOTUs to see if they want to add/substract or flame me ;-)
* dholbach hi-fives LaserJock
<dholbach> no, not flame
<dholbach> i think it might be good to have a documentation like that for a meeting after edgy release
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I'd like to work on it more and not distract too much from the issue at hand (getting Edgy out the door)
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: yes, the number of bugs is going down a bit. and many that are left are upstream bug watches
* bddebian breaks out the flamethrower
* tuxmaniac 's job is becoming less and less on Ubuntu-Science
<tuxmaniac> :)
<LaserJock> haha, i'm a raging Ubuntu-holic MOTU, I'm wearing my flame-retardent underweard
<bddebian> heh
<Bazzi> ah crap
<Bazzi> there's a package I'd like to see in edgy but I haven't checked debian unstable in time :(
<Toadstool> hey everybody
<Bazzi> hi Toadstool :)
<Toadstool> great! a meeting!
* Toadstool hugs dholbach 
<Toadstool> hi Bazzi
<Toadstool> uhuh, meeting at 07:00am...
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<sistpoty> ok, gotta continue learning... cya
<Toadstool> hey bddebian
<LaserJock> Toadstool: yep, you're in my TZ now ;-)
<bddebian> Who the hell is up at 7:00am?
<bddebian> Anyone know how I disregard char input when doing something like:  scanf ("%d", &foo); ?
<LaserJock> bddebian: apparently Toadstool and I will be up at 7:00am ;-)
<Toadstool> bddebian: scanf("%s", ...); strtol(...); ? :p
* Toadstool hides
<Toadstool> LaserJock: yep I'll be up
<bddebian> pshaw :-)
<thom> ok, anychance we could have an installable valgrind-callgrind on edgy?
<geser> thom: valgrind 1:3.2.0-2ubuntu1 provides valgrind-callgrind
<geser> the seperate package isn't needed anymore
<thom> ah
<thom> then the others should be removed right?
<lophyte> hi geser
<geser> hi lophyte
<jdong> any Media team folks in here?
<jdong> since Dapper's LTS, I'd like to discuss the possibility of an updated multimedia stack in dapper-backports
<phanatic> evening
<LaserJock> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey LaserJock
<superm1> hey guys, how would I add an app into an edgy pbuilder that I dont want the package normally depending on?
<superm1> just for some local testing
<LaserJock> hmm, you want it to depend on it now though?
<superm1> well its pkg-create-dbgsym
<superm1> it creates debug symbols
<superm1> it will eventually be active in LP, but packages dont need to depend on it
<superm1> it diverts dh_strip to do so
<LaserJock> ok, so you just want it installed in your pbuilder?
<superm1> right
<LaserJock> well, you could do a pbuilder login
<superm1> so i can change the base.tgz from that login then huh?
<LaserJock> cp the pkg-create-dbgsym .deb into the chroot and the source package you want to build
<LaserJock> then build it inside the chroot
<superm1> oh interesting
<superm1> didn't realize you could actually chroot into a pbuilder
<superm1> is there a way to make that more permanent, so that if I wouldn't have to chroot to do my builds, but could just queue them up with pbuilder build and still have pkg-create-dbgsym installed in the pbuilder?
<LaserJock> you could cp the pbuilder base.tgz
<LaserJock> then do a login
<LaserJock> hang on a sec
<jdong> superm1: make a backup of the base.tgz, then do pbuilder login --save-after-login
<jdong> superm1: install the package, exit, and now base.tgz will be recreated with the changes you made
<superm1> changes will only be lost then after pbuilder update right?
<jdong> superm1: no, changes will not be lost until you restore your backed up base.tgz!
<jdong> it permanently taints your pbuilder
<superm1> oh
<superm1> hence why to back it up :)
<jdong> :)
<LaserJock> yeah, that's what I was going to say
<LaserJock> ;-)
<superm1> hehe
<LaserJock> I was just reading man pbuilder
<LaserJock> to make sure I had it right
<LaserJock> and then somebody called the lab
<superm1> so when pkg-create-dbgsym goes active on LP, will it become part of the base package then possibly?
<LaserJock> --extrapackages
<LaserJock> might be cool too
<superm1> oh --extrapackages would probably be the good way to do it, especially if i can just throw it in a pbuilderrc
<jdong> hmm, yeah, if it's in apt already, extrapackages mgiht be a better plan
<jdong> I thought it was a self-rolled deb
<LaserJock> yes
<superm1> yea pitti pushed to get this finished up by edgy time
<superm1> supposed to make debugging a lot easier
<LaserJock> for self-rolled --save-after-login seems better
<dholbach> have a nice evening! see you tomorrow!
<tseng> bye dholbach
<dholbach> bye tseng
* dholbach hugs tseng
<tseng> hugs
<bddebian> Hey tseng, you never hug me?? :'-(
<bddebian> gnight dholbach
<tseng> bddebian: you're not as pretty
<bddebian> heh
<tseng> i hug dholbach is real life
<jdong|laptop> are there irc logs for this channel?
<ajmitch> yes, somewhere
<jdong|laptop> heh
<jdong|laptop> that's roughly what I told the forum poster about where his monodevelop packages are :D
<zul> people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<LaserJock> grrrrrr
<ajmitch> LaserJock?
<LaserJock> bug 64242
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64242 in maxima "ship working maxima for ppc" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64242
<ajmitch> btw are you able to make it to the MOTU meeting?
<LaserJock> I suppose
<LaserJock> it's 7am for me
<ajmitch> LaserJock: don't you love maxima bugs?
<LaserJock> but I can manage
<ajmitch> ah, I thought it might be 8am
<ajmitch> it'll be 3am for me
<LaserJock> well, that's not just a maxima bug
<ajmitch> that's a truly offensive bug report
<LaserJock> it's a bug to report that bugs aren't being fixed and Ubuntu is the suxor
* ajmitch is tempted to reject it with 'User is too offensive'
<LaserJock> I'll handle it
<ajmitch> good :)
<ajmitch> you don't want me to..
<LaserJock> I know
<LaserJock> that's why I'm doing it
<jdong> hehe
* jdong remembers losing his temper in a bug report
<jdong> it was... uhh... this morning.... :)
* jdong really needs to take a vacation from the bug tracker
<geser> could a motu please ACK the sync request in bug 64036, bug 64035 and bug 63839?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64036 in gnustep-gui "[UVF Exception]  Sync gnustep-gui 0.11.0-2 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64036
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64035 in gnustep-base "[UVF Exception]  Sync gnustep-base 1.13.0-3 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64035
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63839 in gnustep-make "[UVF Exception]  Sync to gnustep-make 1.13.0-1 from Debian unstable" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63839
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I rejected it with a pleasant little note
<LaserJock> that's really irritating
<LaserJock> those maxima bugs have plauged me since right before dapper was released
<LaserJock> and then they say "What do you ignore us, you suck", it really motivates me to fix it that's for sure ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> geser: Go man, go.. I was wondering why gnustep* was all jacked up in Edgy
<ajmitch> LaserJock: just say 'you want it, you fix it'
<ajmitch> ah, I see you basically did :)
<ajmitch> good response
<LaserJock> oh man
<LaserJock> I just found directions to checkinstall maxima/wxmaxima on the wiki
<Toadstool> well done LaserJock
<LaserJock> uggg
<geser> ajmitch: do I need an ACK from a MOTU if I have a confirmed uvf exception?
<geser> for a sync request
<jdong> LaserJock: that is what happens when ubuntu packages don't work, or ubuntu doesn't provide up to date packages :)
* jdong resists from rehashing  his earlier rant
<Toadstool> LaserJock: you should add your comment to the Bug/Responses wiki page :)
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> jdong: you? a rant? I can't imagine ;-)
<ajmitch> geser: I don't know, depends on what the archive admins say
<LaserJock> well, a UVFe team ack I would assume would count as a MOTU ack
<ajmitch> jdong: almost as great as those *wonderfully* tested backports :)
<bddebian> Frick, I hate not being able to do any Ubuntu work.. :'-(
<LaserJock> oh whatever
<LaserJock> take a break then
<LaserJock> write the packaging guide for me
<LaserJock> add to the MotuManagement wiki I started
<ajmitch> bddebian: triage bugs
<LaserJock> we still have unmet deps I think
<ajmitch> 'still'
<bddebian> I mean RL work getting in the way :-(
<ajmitch> we have about 180
<superm1_away> ajmitch, did you ever get that list put together
* ajmitch keeps getting bugged by people about this list
<superm1> hehe
<LaserJock> bddebian: bah, I know how that dude
<superm1> sorry havent seen you around
<LaserJock> bddebian: don't worry, just do what you can
<theCore> does someone is working one bug 46428, if not I would like to try to fix it
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46428 in libming "python-ming is misnamed and basically empty" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46428
<theCore> on*
<LaserJock> theCore: go for it
<theCore> ok :)
<jdong> ajmitch: oh come on, I screwed up one.... :)
<jdong> and I learned to not call my edgy chroots dapper ones
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> poor jdong
* jdong goes off to a corner and starts crying
<jdong> and speaking of drive-by malone prodding, what about my wine and x264 UVFe's? :D
<LaserJock> well, it's not like you broke X or anything ;-)
<jdong> LaserJock: hehe... I was afraid to say that, else I'd get the pitchfork mob after me :D
<ajmitch> jdong: just one?
<ajmitch> jdong: what happens when you backport stuff to dapper, but not subsequent bugfixes to the package? :)
<jdong> ajmitch: urgh, launchpad really needs a better way to track that
<jdong> ajmitch: any such outstanding bugs I should direct my attention to?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> bug 61783
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61783 in phpgroupware "package should depend on php5-imap | php4-imap" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61783
<ajmitch> jdong: about your uvf request, probably because you subscribed motu-uvf :)
<ajmitch> x264 is approved if you looked
<jdong> ajmitch: bah... mixed up backports and motu conventions....
<theCore> is it possible to sync packages from Debian past the freeze?
<ajmitch> theCore: new packages?
<theCore> no
<ajmitch> anything new or that has a new upstream revision needs the UVF team's approval
<ajmitch> if it's just a new debian revision, go ahead
<jdong> ajmitch: wrt x264, who should I bug to do the actual sync and avidemux patch?
<theCore> the debian version is newer than the one in Ubuntu
<ajmitch> preferably one of the motu media people
<superm1> does a new debian revision need a UVFe then, or just a debdiff?
<ajmitch> theCore: that's expected if it's a sync
<ajmitch> superm1: I just said, you don't need UVF exception for debian revisions, just upstream versionss
<superm1> oh sorry i misread
<superm1> thats good to know
<theCore> ajmitch, so, how I would process to sync the package?
* ajmitch goes & trolls the forums again
<ajmitch> theCore: file a bug, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<ajmitch> process for filing a sync is on the DeveloperResources wiki page
<theCore> the bug is already filled
<LaserJock> ajmitch: don't do it
<ajmitch> LaserJock: aw why not?
<ajmitch> on the forums, noone knows who I am :)
<theCore> ajmitch, "If we're in UpstreamVersionFreeze, syncs of a newer upstream version require explicit UVF exception approval."
<theCore> -- from the Wiki
<ajmitch> theCore: exactly as I said
<theCore> ok, then it's me that misunderstood
<theCore> python-ming hadn't been updated since 2005
<theCore> it's a bit old ...
<ajmitch> a version is x.y.z-a
<ajmitch> x.y.z is upstream version
<ajmitch> a is the debian revision
<ajmitch>    libming | 0.3beta1+cvs20051127-1 | http://apt-proxy edgy/universe Sources
<ajmitch>       ming |  1:0.3.0-7 | http://apt-proxy sid/main Sources
<ajmitch> it appears to be a new upstream version
<ajmitch> oops, messed up the changelog entry slightly for xen-3.0
<ajmitch> 1 missing )
<theCore> ajmitch, so, if want to fix the bug I need to patch Ubuntu?
<theCore> Ubuntu's version*
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-06
<ajmitch> or you need to get a UVF exception
<ajmitch> since it really is a new upstream version
<jdong> ajmitch: you like staying under the radar on the forums, or would you like a developer tag?
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> it's no big deal either way
* jdong sticks it on his tomboy note of death
<jdong> also known as his back burner todo list, or the wc -l buffer overflow test suite
<jdong> anyway, I'll be off for a while tonight... need to take some time and get my network set up correctly
<ajmitch> ok
<jdong> this whole 1mbit wifi connection is not working well
<jdong> ajmitch: if it's not too much hassle for you, please poke me in a more obnoxious manner about backports regressions
<ajmitch> jdong: I was going to reopen the bug at some point
<ajmitch> the initial filer is the main upstream developer :)
<jdong> you know you broke something when that's who comes knocking at your door :)
<lifeless> lol... DOH!
<jdong> margh.. stupid router.... ubunt needs an embedded router distro. this whole out-of-the-box concept does not seem to be catching on in the LFS world
* jdong zaps his network connection
<plugwash> dunno about routers but i know someone who runs debian on thier nslu2
<plugwash> (which is actually acting as a router among other things)
<ajmitch> morning lifeless
<rmjb> hi, does the entry for maintainer in the control file have to match your gpg key?
<rmjb> I get the following when running debuild -S
<zul> yes
<rmjb> Now signing changes and any dsc files...
<rmjb>  signfile hello-debhelper_2.1.1-1.dsc Richard <rmjb@mail.com>
<rmjb> gpg: skipped "Richard <rmjb@mail.com>": secret key not available
<rmjb> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<rmjb> ok
<rmjb> the comment on the key matters also??
<LaserJock> hello Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
<Fujitsu> What shall I do about the gcl/maxima fix for Dapper? Wait until the updates policy is decided in the meeting on Monday?
<minghua> rmjb: I think you can use "debsign -k" to sign your package with a different name, but I've never tried that myself
<Fujitsu> minghua, that's correct.
<rmjb> but that's apart from the debuild -S command?
<minghua> debuild should have some options to not sign the packages it builds
<Fujitsu> Yes, you run debsign on the changes file after you run debuild.
<minghua> I know dpkg-buildpackage has
<Fujitsu> minghua, it won't sign if it can't find the secret key anyway.
<theCore> rmjb, you can add the -kYOURKEY option to debuild
<minghua> Fujitsu: but that way you get rid of the error message ;-)
<rmjb> Fujitsu: that's, my issue, it can't find my secret key
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah, we might as well wait until Monday
<rmjb> I don't know why though
<rmjb> I even manually installed gpg-agent
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: and fend of the natives biting at our heals until then ;-)
<rmjb> since it wasn't in edgy
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> That bug this morning was... odd.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: just learn how to flame back
<LaserJock> bah
<ajmitch> we can learn a lot from debian
<LaserJock> I feel bad about my comment as it is
<LaserJock> haha
<Fujitsu> That comment is /fine/, LaserJock.
<zul> yeah we can learn how to release eventually..
<minghua> I usually don't reply to those bugs in fear that I can't control my anger
* Fujitsu presses the electrocute-person button on LP.
<ajmitch> hey zul :)
<minghua> and I agree LaserJock's reply is very kind and sweet :-)
<ajmitch> he should exemplary self-control
<zul> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> s/should/showed/
* ajmitch shouldn't think & type at the same time
<LaserJock> wow, so there was a new Slack release
<LaserJock> and it appears to have a 2.4 kernel
<ajmitch> modern
<ajmitch> do they have pam yet?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, yeah, I noticed that... I liked 10.1, used it for a while. What a lovely modern kernel it had.
<rmjb> the sarcasm in this room is killin me
<Plug> rmjb: wait till we talk about RPMs again
<Fujitsu> ALFJ SOIHFEQIFLUHSD<vbscdj,hnfkvhfi
<zul> heh..the sarcasm is nothing
<LaserJock> well, the also have 2.6.17 and 2.6.18 kernels too
<LaserJock> but it seems the default is 2.4
<Fujitsu> It is, yes.
<zul> i still like slackware
<LaserJock> I wonder if I should put it on my data aquisition machine
<jdong> STUPID M**** *** *** ** * **** WIRELESS
<Plug> I don't know if I can fill in all those words at that length jdong  :)
<jdong> apparently you can't use wireless routers OR access points as range extenders / repeaters
<jdong> and all the fancy AP+bridge modes don't do crap
<rmjb> "data acquisition machine" is that the new term for bittorrent?
<jdong> I've only succeeded at making my own netsplits in my house :)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I'm surprised that you managed to not explode while replying to bug #64242... The guy pretty much said that the bug he was filing was a dupe of two seperate bugs... I haven't seen such an impressive one ever other than that!
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64242 in maxima "ship working maxima for ppc" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64242
<jdong> anyone with any decent ideas of how to extend the range of my wireless network with minimal effort or cash?
<zul> LaserJock: yeah nice self control
<zul> i wouldnt have that
<rmjb> very diplomatic response
<rmjb> is there an issue having spaces in your passphrase?
<rmjb> I dunno what could be the issue here
<minghua> I don't think so
<minghua> I've used spaces in my login password
<Fujitsu> There are spaces in all of mine.
<rmjb> the passphrase for your gpg key
<Fujitsu> Nope, spaces in that as well.
<rmjb> I get the following from debuild -S:
<rmjb> Enter passphrase: gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use
<rmjb> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<rmjb> debuild: fatal error at line 1151:
<rmjb> running debsign failed
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> That's a known bug.
<LaserJock> rmjb: I'm a chemist
<rmjb> and it's finding the correct key
<Fujitsu> You can't have an {gpg,seahorse}-agent running if you want to sign through debuild.
<rmjb> LaserJock: a political chemist
<Fujitsu> You either have to get rid of the agent, or use debsign afterwards.
<rmjb> should I remove any one?
<minghua> rmjb: I think he is responding to your bittorrent comment
<LaserJock> data aquisition means grabing data and fitting a non-linear curve and displaying all the data at 10Hz
<theCore> hehe, "chemist are lazy", that what my chemistry teacher tell us every single courses ;)
<Fujitsu> It's because debuild runs using fakeroot.
<rmjb> LaserJock: oh... I'm only thinking about home use
<jdong> urgh, I hate how debuild can't play nicely with agents
<rmjb> I'll remove gpg-agent since that wasn't even in the ubuntu main repos
<LaserJock> I don't like torrents so that would also be a no ;-)
<LaserJock> theCore: People are lazy ;-)
<rmjb> jdong: it doesn't work well with any agents?
<theCore> is possible to be the maintainer of a package, without being a MOTU?
<LaserJock> why do you need a gpg agent?
<Fujitsu> rmjb, correct.
<theCore> LaserJock, yeah
<LaserJock> theCore: yes
<theCore> cool
<jdong> LaserJock: my passphrase takes me around 20 seconds to type at best
<jdong> and with each package I need to type it in twice
<LaserJock> my goodness
<jdong> it quickly gets annoying
<theCore> jdong, Oo
<theCore> I thought I had a long password ...
<rmjb> jdong: you should learn to type faster (jk)
<rmjb> will the agent problem cause:
<rmjb> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<rmjb> debuild: fatal error at line 1151:
<rmjb> running debsign failed
<minghua> Hmm, ubuntu/debian difference in in this week's LWN
<ajmitch> minghua: subscription required?
<minghua> ajmitch: yes.  but I assume you have one?
<ajmitch> no
<minghua> oh
<crimsun> isn't there a DD sub?
<ajmitch> yes, there is
<ajmitch> if you request it
<crimsun> I wonder if any ubuntu-dev members are interested in a similar get-up.
<tseng> someone paid for Debian
<ajmitch> it'd be quite nice
<ajmitch> HP did, iirc
<tseng> Mark isnt so generous
<minghua> not some flaming article, just mentioned the mail to debian-devel about a difference tracking script, Utnubu project, and one of our wiki page I didn't know before
<tseng> I mean, he is a nice guy
<tseng> but he doesnt do much that he doesnt see a return on
<ajmitch> ok, back later
<azeem> ajmitch: yeah, HP
<minghua> this one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForDebianDevelopers
<LaserJock> you have to pay for LWN?
<jdong> rmjb: that's what the fakeroot/debuild/agent problem IS :)
<crimsun> for subscriber-only sections, LaserJock.
<LaserJock> interesting
<minghua> LaserJock: just to read some sections two-weeks early
<LaserJock> I don't really read Linux stuff
<azeem> oh cool, mdz has picked up my suggestions
<LaserJock> takes away from my Ubuntu addiction ;-)
<crimsun> I generally find lwn to be highly informed and quite objective.
<tseng> its really one of the few good sources of linux news
<crimsun> indeed
<tseng> everything else is biased, out of context, and poorly edited
<minghua> I subscribed LWN partly because I want to read them early, partly because I think they are the only good linux news website around and want to support them
<jdong> tseng: digg is a very reliable source for linux news :D
<jdong> it broke the story of hans reiser as a wife slasher first
<tseng> jdong: digg is a cesspool
<tseng> and not even good at what it claims to do, apperantly
<jdong> lol
<jdong> I do comb it once in a while when I'm bored....
<tseng> top users have vastly more input
<tseng> or so its written on the very reliable other sites
<jdong> i've found some slightly interesting *nix news on it before
* jdong is not a fan of its voting system at all
<rmjb> this section in Synaptic: Installed (auto removable) that's new?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> well, maybe I'll have to pay attention sometimes to LWN
<rmjb> is it LaserJock or Fujitsu that worked on the Ubuntu Packaging Guide?
<azeem> the subscriber-only articles (which are the best) get cleared for everybody after a week or a month
<LaserJock> rmjb: I did
<Fujitsu> rmjb, certainly not me :P
<LaserJock> maybe Fujitsu should ;-)
<minghua> azeem: I think it's two weeks
<azeem> sounds sensible
<rmjb> at the bottom of the first page of chapter 4: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
<minghua> but I must admit some stories are less interesting after two weeks :-(
<jdong> damn, murphy's law tells me that linux-image-xen0 won't support atheros, and its corollary tells me that the drivers won't build under xen0 either
<jdong> right?
<rmjb> the debuild -S command doesn't work as is...
<theCore> LaserJock, did you saw my patch?
<jdong> rmjb: debuild -S works just fine, except when you have an agent
<theCore> LaserJock, I think I fixed that
<jdong> rmjb: if gpg can't find its agent, it will always exit with a failure code
<jdong> regardless of it you typed in the right passphrase on fallback
<jdong> it's an upstream gnupg bug
<jdong> I filed it
<rmjb> so I shoud remove seahorse then
<jdong> it's been fixed in upstream gnupg's release
<jdong> rmjb: edit your gnupg.conf, remove use agent;
<jdong> rmjb: or run a debsign after running debuild
<jdong> just ctrl+C it when it asks for a passphrase
<theCore> rmjb, what is your gnupg key number?
<rmjb> 76F264FF
<theCore> rmjb, try that: debuild -S -k76F264FF
<Fujitsu> theCore, that won't work.
* jdong reboots
<Fujitsu> debsign whatever_source.changes
<jdong> theCore: that won't work
<jdong> theCore: read my explanation above
<theCore> jdong, sure?
<jdong> theCore: gpg agent won't work because of fakeroot. gpg (BUG) exits with an error code
<rmjb> FINALLY, removing the use-agent line worked
<Fujitsu> theCore, very sure.
<jdong> theCore: I've been on this bug in the bzr world for a while now
<rmjb> I don't think it's supposed to take me 3 weeks to go through this guide
<theCore> well, it does work for me ...
<fowlduck> rmjb: which guide?
<rmjb> the Packaging Guide
<fowlduck> ahhh, yes, check out the debian resources on packaging too, they're VERY VERY VERY helpful
<rmjb> it's no problem having an edgy system and using a dapper pbuilder right?
<gnomefreak> rmjb: no
<fowlduck> rmjb: as long as you set pbuilder up to use an edgy environment
<gnomefreak> fowlduck: you mean dapper
<fowlduck> right
<gnomefreak> ;)
<rmjb> oh, got confused a min there
<fowlduck> then stand on your head, drink some water, while rubbing your belly clockwise
<fowlduck> just to clarify
<gnomefreak> rmjb: you can have pbuilder for hoary if you like. pbuilder will install a very basic system in the pbuilder env.
<rmjb> thanks, I'm clarified
<fowlduck> hey, has anyone heard of edgy beta 1 installation where the keyboard stops working immediately?
* gnomefreak needs to set up pbuilder again :(
<gnomefreak> fowlduck: theres a bug on a keyboard issue but thats all i remember
<fowlduck> gnomefreak: ok
<fowlduck> anyone have a link to edgy launchpad?
<gnomefreak> !bug
<ubotu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu, please report it at http://bugs.ubuntu.com
<rmjb> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy
<fowlduck> cool, thx
<gnomefreak> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
<gnomefreak> i wouldnt just look in edgy
<fowlduck> it's an edgy bug
<gnomefreak> fowlduck: if people dont put edgy in title you wont find it
<gnomefreak> alot of people dont put dist. version in bug title
<fowlduck> ugh
<rmjb> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ps-chap.html
<rmjb> ?
<ausimage> Hello I recently updated bug #58682. It is a fairly serious issue with galeon.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58682 in galeon "[Edgy]  Consistent Crash while query plugins with Java Script" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58682
<ausimage> I am hoping to get some eyes on this to get a remedy for Edgy
<jdong> any idea when I could catch slomo/nafallo?
<jdong> they've not been around the past day or two :D
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o jdong]  by ChanServ
<gnomefreak> jdong: i thought i saw slomo yesterday or day before :(
<gnomefreak> nafallo i almost never see
<jdong> gnomefreak: yeah, that's what ubotu told me
<jdong> I've seen nafallo like once
<gnomefreak> i think i see him after 10pm here
<jdong> and he helped me do an upload (thanks!)
* jdong wants to poke a MOTU-media about his x264 UVFe
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o tseng]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o jdong]  by tseng
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o tseng]  by tseng
<gnomefreak> lol
<tseng> please don't abuse the access list
<jdong> huh? did I take op?
<jdong> oops
<jdong> sorry, tseng, totally an accident
<tseng> script I guess
<jdong> I needed ops on the two other channels where people are out of control
<jdong> so I did a lazy op all
<tseng> sorry it gets me all kinds of fussed
<jdong> not realizing I had the ability to op to any of the other channels I was in
<jdong> I apologize, tseng
<tseng> np
<gnomefreak> kernel freeze means no updates to kernel?
<jdong> gnomefreak: I expect bugfixes to still go in... else I'd be very disappointed
<gnomefreak> thats what i was wondering
<gnomefreak> i got scared
<jdong> there's still a few regressions in edgy's kernel that I dearly hope are fixed
<jdong> most concerning of which, it seems like a large chunk of ich8 sata's don't work in edgy anymore
<jdong> my laptop's mobile ich8 still works, but on a few desktops I tried an edgy beta on, it didn't probe any of the hd's
<jdong> very irritating when it comes to core 2 duo support, when dapper/edgy support mutually exclusive halves of the chipset :D
<tseng> i am on a core 2
<gnomefreak> changing another one of my pcs to edgy this week sometime
<tseng> edgy
<tseng> i dont see the problem?
* gnomefreak has nothing better than a p4 1.7mhz :(
<jdong> tseng: hmm, is your hard drive ICH8 SATA?
<tseng> i imagine
<tseng> ^ich7
<jdong> tseng: the local PC shop here got a core 2 desktop shipment, and I was testing edgy livecd's on it
<tseng> laptop
<jdong> tseng: that's why. ich8 specific, desktop core 2 duo regression
<tseng> ok then
<jdong> nonetheless critical to see addressed for edgy
<tseng> not sure what talking about it here helps
<jdong> nothing really, other than so a few other people have the bug in the back of their head :D
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe we should have the maxima bug person file a request to revert to the Breezy version and subscribe ubuntu-archive
<jdong> I really feel awful for poking about bugs
<jdong> but from my experience in warty and hoary, it didn't help to just silently file LP bugs
* gnomefreak does too much with bugs i cant keep them straight anymore
<jdong> there were quite a few that I would've hoped to see addressed but were just swamped
<gnomefreak> jdong: i normally poke #ubuntu-bugs to see if they can confirm it
<minghua> LaserJock: I am not sure binary-only revert is allowed
<gnomefreak> i have a bug i moved upstream and still hasnt been looked at by upstream 3 months now give or take
<LaserJock> minghua: hence my desire to see him try it with ubuntu-archive ;-)
<minghua> LaserJock: Ah, I see.  so he can argue with someone else? ;-)
<jdong> so, just out of curiousity, what do you guys think I need to do to become MOTU
<jdong> I think that'd cut down on my need to find and poke MOTU's for backports work
<LaserJock> do something that isn't backports ;-)
* gnomefreak hasnt learned backports yet
<LaserJock> jdong: I doubt it would really take much
<minghua> aren't backport team members already in MOTU?
<jdong> minghua: I am ironically not
<LaserJock> except for jdong, yeah
<gnomefreak> lol
<jdong> it is kind of ironic
<jdong> for the one who started it all to be powerless :)
<gnomefreak> jdong: a few packages a few people behind you and a tb meeting should be ok no?
<jdong> I'd really like to reach for MOTU
<jdong> gnomefreak: define "a few"
<gnomefreak> maybe a few more than a few
<gnomefreak> 10 +
<jdong> I really don't want to pursue MOTU at the cost of causing more backports backlog
<fowlduck> should i expect edgy's kernel to be updated frequently before the release?
<minghua> jdong: did you show up in a TB meeting asking to become a MOTU?
<gnomefreak> fowlduck: today is kernel freeze
<jdong> minghua: yes, but that was more of seeing if they'd give it to me for free
<jdong> minghua: at the time I had done absolutely zero for motu
<gnomefreak> lol @ free
<fowlduck> gnomefreak: that's nice :)
<jdong> gnomefreak: you know what I mean :P
<gnomefreak> i know
<jdong> "honorary MOTU" :P
<gnomefreak> fowlduck: you might see an update or 2 but dont count on it
<jdong> anyway, I'm gonna keep pursuing MOTu in the back of my mind
<rmjb> there seems to be a dmraid issue with the new kernel: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/54246
<minghua> jdong: that is what I am asking (to give you one for free), but since they don't, I suppose you need to do some MOTU work then :-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54246 in dmraid "DMRAID stopped to work in kernels > 2.6.15" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<rmjb> with the freeze in effect does this mean edgy will not have support for fakeraid?
<jdong> minghua: that's why I'm asking, what MOTU work do I need to do to prove myself competent MOTU material? :)
<gnomefreak> rmjb: you might see an update or 2 but dont count on it
<minghua> jdong: and after all, it's decided by TB, not fellow MOTUs
<minghua> jdong: I believe every MOTU did different work to get the status
<gnomefreak> tb is made up of people you know jdong
<fowlduck> cool, a kernel that changes a lot makes using vmware a pain
<gnomefreak> keybuk is one tseng is one i thought too
<minghua> jdong: I can tell you my experience, but it probably doesn't help you much
<LaserJock> tseng isn't on TB
<rmjb> that's unfortunate... that dapper had fakeraid support and edgy won't, but I guess that's the fault of the dmraid developers??
<LaserJock> it's Keybuk, Kamion, sabdfl, and mjg59 I think
<LaserJock> but I could be wrong
<Laser_away> bbiab
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, not Kamion, but mdz.
<gnomefreak> sabdfl might be an extra or a silent
<gnomefreak> i havent seeen him at the tb meetings ive been to
<minghua> I remember elmo in my MOTU application meeting
<tseng> Laser_away: I shoudl be
<tseng> haha
<minghua> maybe I remember wrong, maybe things changed
<tseng> TB is awful
<tseng> trying to match up times for everyone
<ajmitch> nearly impossible
<gnomefreak> kcc is the only one without that issue that i know if
<gnomefreak> or kc
<fowlduck> kfc?
<fowlduck> mmmmm
<gnomefreak> kubuntu council
<fowlduck> hehe j/k
<fowlduck> anyways
<gnomefreak> maintainer = debian qa group does that mean its likely not to be fixed or do we have them around ubuntu channels?
<Fujitsu> Does anybody around here have an Edgy or Dapper PPC I can test some maxima stuff on?
<plugwash> how much do you reckon debian will miss their release date by this time then?
<plugwash> oops was scrolled up
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: sorry i dream of a ppc someday :)
<plugwash> gnomefreak iirc maintainer set to "debian qa group" means there is no maintainer
<minghua> gnomefreak: that equals to "no active maintainer" in Debian
<gnomefreak> oh great
<minghua> gnomefreak: but bugs can still be fixed if patches are provided and someone can review it
<plugwash> i'd imagine someone could still nmu a patch though
<gnomefreak> python-gnome should be desktop maintainers shouldnt?
<gnomefreak> let me see if i can file this under pyton-gtk instead of python-gnome as it fits better
<minghua> you don't need NMU, debian QA group has a list, get a patch ready and tested, then ask that list to upload a new release
<gnomefreak> nope
<gnomefreak> hmmmmm
<minghua> are we talking about GTK/GNOME 1.x stuff here?
<gnomefreak> yes :(
<gnomefreak> lol
<gnomefreak> python-gtk-1.2
<gnomefreak> is the messed up package
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<Fujitsu> The Edgy Beta alternate installer didn't ask me for a username or password... I suspect it might have been because my initial partitioning failed.
* Fujitsu grumbles, and chroots.
<fowlduck> Fujitsu: at least your keyboard works
<gnomefreak> mine works too :)
<minghua> "   * Add size test, which fails on any debhelper program of more than 150 lines (excluding POD). This is not a joke, and 100 lines would be better."
<minghua> joeyh sure writes entertaining changelog entries
<LaserJock> tseng: haha, true
<tseng> wb
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<rmjb> who's the Utnubu Team?
<LaserJock> I think those are Debian Developers
<LaserJock> they try to take Ubuntu work and put it back into Debian
<rmjb> has the freeze taken effect?
<LaserJock> yes
<rmjb> shoot
<ajmitch> about a week ago
<rmjb> there's a problem with dmraid
<rmjb> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/54246
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54246 in dmraid "DMRAID stopped to work in kernels > 2.6.15" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<ajmitch> you can get freeze exceptions
<rmjb> some guy just uploaded a deb, but he's not a pacakger
<ajmitch> see last URL of topic
<ajmitch> sid doesn't have rc11 either
<rmjb> I was wondering if someone could take a look at it... without it edgy wont have fakeraid support... even tho dapper did
* ajmitch can look but has no hardware to test it
<LaserJock> me neither
<rmjb> oh...
* bddebian 3
<ajmitch> I always use the kernel's software RAID
<LaserJock> I don't use RAID at all
<rmjb> I can test the package, but I can't verify the packaging
<TheMuso> I have the hardware, but don't have the desire to screw hard drives up just to write some metadata to them.
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> I'll look at the package tonight, if at all possible
<LaserJock> TheMuso: haha
<ajmitch> no guarantees :)
<rmjb> cool, it's just when I came to ubuntu under dapper I saw a lot of posts asking about getting SATA RAID working and the stock response was to install dmraid
<TheMuso> You know if people care about it so much, they should write a spec for it to get integrated.
<rmjb> if it's broken in edgy a lot of hardware enthusiasts will be really disappointed
<rmjb> oh... isn't the spec process reserved for members?
<TheMuso> rmjb: Its nothing to be so enthused about.
<TheMuso> Not that I know of.
<rmjb> I like to say I have RAID0... even if there's some software involed and the low level
<TheMuso> If I ever use RAID, and I intend to for my server project, it will be hardware RAID.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: why?
<rmjb> this RAID is in the hardware... kinda
<ajmitch> usually quite badly
<ajmitch> I find that the kernel's software RAID tends to be the best
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I'd rather not have the CPUs doing the work.
<LaserJock> how much work does it have to do?
<TheMuso> And I thought at the moment one can't use software raid with LVM.
<LaserJock> like in % CPU
<rmjb> it's not that much of a hit, I've a Sepmron 1800+ running a Soft RAID5 and it's fine
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Probably not a lot, but since this project is being done over a long period of time, I feel I can take the time to invest in the hardware to do it.
<rmjb> LVM2 works I think
<TheMuso> DOes d-i support LVM2?
<TheMuso> More precisely, dapper's d-i?
<rmjb> one advantage of software RAID is your RAID controller wont go bad and corrupt your array... which happened at a place I worked
<rmjb> what's d-i?
<Toadstool> TheMuso: hardware RAID controllers are expensive and when they break...
<TheMuso> Debian installer.
<TheMuso> Toadstool: Thats true.
<LaserJock> well, software breaks too
<Toadstool> LaserJock: yeah but repairing it is cheaper ;)
<LaserJock> heh, true
<ajmitch> software RAID is also much more flexible
<Toadstool> true
<rmjb> software usually only breaks when it upgrades to a bug, and repair is easier yeah, any linux system with mdadm can rebuild a soft-raid
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Yeah true.
* TheMuso is now reconsidering.
<rmjb> you'll need the exact hardware to rebuild a hard-raid
<TheMuso> Is it possible to buy sata cards that have a lot of ports on them, and the card not be RAID?
<rmjb> most of those cards can work in a non raid mode
<ajmitch> buying the exact hardware when you've had a RAID controller fail could be a nightmare
* ajmitch has heard a large number of hardware RAID horror stories :)
<TheMuso> Yeah theres that
<ajmitch> including a friend who had to rebuild his RAID array at work every year or so due to some transient errors
<rmjb> mdadm is pretty solid, I've removed a failed drive and replaced it and rebuilt with mdadm already, no issues
<rmjb> mdadm = linux soft-raid
<rmjb> someone mentioned getting fakeraid support into the spec, how would you go about doing that? get a member to recommend it and let the Technical Team decide on it?
<rmjb> and once it's in the spec there would be priority on ensuring it's working with each release right?
<crimsun> rather, /you/ spec it and implement it.
<rmjb> I don't need to be a member to do that?
<crimsun> nope.
<crimsun> you do need an LP account, though (which is, of course, free to create and use).
<rmjb> okay then, I'll propose it for edgy+1
<rmjb> I've got me an LP account already
<TheMuso> Hmm. Seems that if one wants a SATA card with lots of ports, they only come in RAID flavours.
<TheMuso> At least so far as I can find here in Aus.
<TheMuso> Or maybe just go 2 4-port cards.
<TheMuso> hmmm
<ajmitch> TheMuso: why do you need that many SATA drives?
<TheMuso> ajmitch: For future expansion. The server won't have that much initially, but will be going in a full tower case, with the capacity for 10 or so drives.
* ajmitch has room for about 15 or so in his case
<ajmitch> but not the $$ to fill it up
<TheMuso> As I said, certainly won't be full right away, but for future expansion.
<ajmitch> plus mine is just a little desktop box for home :)
<TheMuso> ajmitch: You using any raid with that box?
<rmjb> can always add more sata cards
<TheMuso> Yeah, but I'd like to keep one or two slots for digital TV tuner cards.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: software RAID
<TheMuso> ajmitch: What level?
<ajmitch> 5
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> How many drives?
<ajmitch> 3
<TheMuso> What if you want to add to that array? Is it trivial to do so?
<TheMuso> As in, add another drive.
<TheMuso> Just trying to work out whether RAID 5, or pairs of drives in RAID 1 with LVM would be better etc. I have heard different opinions from different people.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: yes, I could extend the array
<ajmitch> and then extend the LVM volume on top of that & then the filesystem
<TheMuso> Right.
<ajmitch> mdadm 2.5 (not in edgy) has more support for online-resizing of raid 5
<TheMuso> But all the drives have to be the same capacity right
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> well, I'm not entirely sure about RAID 5 rules
<ajmitch> since all mine were bought at the same time
<TheMuso> Right.
* TheMuso clearly needs to do more reading.
<jdong> ajmitch / TheMuso: regarding sw raid, with 5 or 6 all disks should be the same size
<jdong> else md will waste the extra space
<jdong> which is probably not what you want
<jdong> for raid 0, md will just not stripe excess space
<LaserJock> cool, I got gallery set up on my site
<LaserJock> put up some Paris pics
<crimsun> the raging motu-aholic solidifies his Web presence.
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
<zul> LaserJock: whats the url again?
<LaserJock> www.laserjock.us
<theCore> LaserJock, drupal?
<LaserJock> yeah
<theCore> I think I will write my own little cms
<theCore> it could be fun...
<theCore> ...but also a waste of time
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> there seems to be quite a few out there
<theCore> yeah, but they are all bloated ;)
<theCore> I'm capricious
<joejaxx> LaserJock: may i pm you?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: sure
<rmjb> TheMuso: about all drives being the same size
<rmjb> mdadm will use the smallest size across all the devices
<rmjb> but if your parition well, you can claim excess space as new regular or lvm partitions
<rmjb> there will be performance issues with that though
<rmjb> your = you
<rmjb> g'night all
<marshall> hey guys
<marshall> can somebody tell me what galago is exactly
<jldugger> looks like the launchpad cert expired =|
<LaserJock> lots of activity
<ajmitch> yep
<tepsipakki> I'm going through bugs that don't have a package assignment.. first up: bug 27789 would be easy to fix, just sync php-doc from debian
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 27789 in Ubuntu "php-doc package missing" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/27789
<imbrandon> moins all
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
<TheMuso> How goes it?
<imbrandon> good , just wakin up ;)
<imbrandon> checkthe the gcc build logs after some patches and a restart before i went to bed
<imbrandon> looked like it made it 90% of the way this time
<imbrandon> look:
<imbrandon> dpkg-deb: building package `g++-4.1-powerpc-linux-gnu' in `../g++-4.1-powerpc-linux-gnu_4.1.1-13ubuntu4_i386.deb'.
<imbrandon> and a few others BUT not all of them ;(
<TheMuso> hehe sounds fun.
<imbrandon> i'm gonna figure this out if it kills me, heh , i also found where someone made some sarge debs for the same thing i'm doing but no source for their patches
<imbrandon> ;(
<imbrandon> and its for the older gcc
<imbrandon> 3.4.X i think
<TheMuso> Fun fun fun
<imbrandon> TheMuso, want the instructions for what i've done so far? maybe you can help me figure out the home stretch hehe, its choking on the dbg packages now becouse i removed dh_strip ( as it cant strip ppc binarys , unknown format )
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I am actually pondering a less stressful solution.
<imbrandon> ahh ;)
<imbrandon> hehe me too, i'm still gonna setup the build farm but i dont wanna let this beat me
<TheMuso> I am actually thinking of selling my G3, and getting a quicksilver G4 dual 1Ghz machine off Ebay which has a few problems, which are easily fixable.
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> yea check the ones at the geeks too , they are reasonably priced
<TheMuso> The geeks?
<imbrandon> i think after UDS i'm gonna sell my ibook too and get a faster ppc laptop
<imbrandon> but i cant before then as its my only laptop and i'll need a lappy ;)
<TheMuso> Hehe true.
<imbrandon> yea the geesk, let me get the exact url
<imbrandon> s/s//
<TheMuso> imbrandon: But if you have instructions on what you have done so far, that would be cool.
<imbrandon> yea i do, its actualy not that much with instructions, can be recreated in 15 minutes, its just jumping through hoops now
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> one sec lemme get the url to geeks and then i'll tell you all how so far
<TheMuso> Ok.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=810
<minghua> imbrandon: of course you are going to have problems with -dbg packages if you comment out dh_strip
<imbrandon> minghua, oh i know ;)
<minghua> good :-)
<imbrandon> minghua, i was just giving the "update" on where i was ;)
<minghua> okay
<minghua> hope they are useful to someone.  my impression about imbradon's attempt for a cross-compile environment so far is simple:  Bradon started trying to build a ppc environment -> Bradon's hard drive broke -> Bradon got a new hard drive -> Bradon started over again  :-)
<imbrandon> well the new hdd isnt here yet, i started over in a chroot on a amd64 shell i have ;)
<imbrandon> hdd should be here in the next day or two ;)
<imbrandon> but basicly yea
<minghua> hmm, so my short summary is still inaccurate :-(
<TheMuso> hehe
<TheMuso> imbrandon: WHy do you keep such odd hours?
<imbrandon> hum no real reason, i'm just a night owl
<jldugger> because one can ;)
<imbrandon> yea ;)
<imbrandon> heya jldugger
<jldugger> hey
<jldugger> imbrandon, did i mention i got right click to work in gnome with my tablet pen?
<imbrandon> ok making the cross compiler page
<imbrandon> jldugger, nope
<imbrandon> well not to me
<imbrandon> ;)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Does it annoy those who live with you?
<jldugger> heh, everyone in my apartment is still up
<imbrandon> TheMuso, nah not really, i rent the bottom of the house so its pretty much like i live alone
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Do you have to share the net with everybody else?
<imbrandon> unless i cracnk the music way up or something
<imbrandon> TheMuso, well i dont HAVE to as its mine but i run cat5 up there becouse the old man ( 65ish ) only checks his email
<imbrandon> even set him up on kubuntu
<imbrandon> ;)
<TheMuso> Right.
<imbrandon> but the line comming in is mine and i control it , and let them use it ( since they use it so very little )
<imbrandon> he could really be on dialup and be happy but its just easier this way ;)
<TheMuso> True that.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Howd that stuff with the job in Europe go?
<imbrandon> they hired some locals as to not have to deal with imagration ;(
<imbrandon> but said they "would keep me on the list" heh
<TheMuso> Damn.
<TheMuso> So I guess you are still looking?
<imbrandon> yup yup
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I am looking for work also. SO you're not really alone in that.
<TheMuso> Hey Fujitsu.
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
<imbrandon> wb Fujitsu
<imbrandon> TheMuso, ;)
* Fujitsu looks for anybody that might have a Dapper- or Edgy-running PPC for maxima-testing.
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: What needs testing?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, i have edgy ppc give me a few minutes to finish up this doc on cross compiler then i'll try what you want
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, there's a nasty bug in the Dapper version which causes it to just hang, apparently, and a lot of people are annoyed about this. I'm trying to fix it.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: What package?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, maxima.
<Fujitsu> That'd be great, imbrandon :)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Twill have to be you, as I don't have X installed on my ppc atm.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, X isn't a requirement.
<TheMuso> hmm ok then.
<Fujitsu> There are graphical frontends, but maxima itself is CLI.
<TheMuso> Installing...
<Fujitsu> Edgy or Dapper, TheMuso?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: How is one supposed to test this?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: edgy.
<Fujitsu> Aha, it's bug #37169, and isn't currently known to affect Edgy, I want it tested :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 37169 in maxima "Maxima hangs on ppc Dapper" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37169
<Fujitsu> If it's not too much trouble, can you install the latest Dapper version, and try to run that? It should do the same as it would on a Dapper system.
<Fujitsu> If only we had a nice MOTU build/test-farm :(
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Same simptoms as in that bug report.
<minghua> uh-oh
<TheMuso> I get the same output with maxima -v it seems.
<Fujitsu> The Edgy version still has that bug?
<Fujitsu> This is with the Edgy version?
<TheMuso> Yes.
<Fujitsu> Darn it.
<Fujitsu> Thanks for testing that.
<TheMuso> np
<TheMuso> And like the report, it also uses up 99-100% CPU.
<minghua> Fujitsu: does maxima run tests during the package building?
<Fujitsu> minghua, yes, I believe it does. I don't know how it could have passed.
<minghua> that's what I am wondering
<minghua> let me dig the build log a bit
* Fujitsu checks build logs.
<Fujitsu> OK, I'm sorta in the middle of something else at the moment... Can you tell me when it was last built?
<minghua> TheMuso: what is your maxima version?
<minghua> the debian package version, i.e. dpkg -l maxima
<minghua> Fujitsu: LP says it's not built yet
<TheMuso> luke@lars:~$ dpkg -l maxima
<TheMuso> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
<TheMuso> | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed
<TheMuso> |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
<TheMuso> ||/ Name           Version        Description
<TheMuso> +++-==============-==============-============================================
<Fujitsu> Wait, what am I on!? I just uploaded it two days ago, I'm truly being silly.
<TheMuso> ii  maxima         5.9.2-2ubuntu1 A fairly complete computer algebra system--
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, are you serious!?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yes. Note that this is from a .au mirror.
<minghua> now we probably know why it doesn't build on non-i386...
<Fujitsu> That's prehistoric. I should have noticed that.
* Fujitsu checks Debian.
<TheMuso> I can switch to the main archive if you like.
<Fujitsu> PPC is on dep-wait.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, don't bother. YOu're 4 versions old, only i386 is recent.
<Fujitsu> Fsck.
* Fujitsu kicks LP a bit.
<Fujitsu> Stupid thing... Doesn't notify me when there are build-failures, of course.
<minghua> hehe
<Fujitsu> PPC gcl failed to build.
<minghua> yeah, maxima was last built on ppc on 2006-05-02 14:38:58 CDT
<TheMuso> How can one set up to be notified of build failures?
<Fujitsu> Great:
<Fujitsu> Unrecoverable error: GBC is not enabled.
<minghua> which sounds the dapper version to me (which we know doesn't work)
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, you can't. It doesn't work yet.
<minghua> /sighs
<Fujitsu> minghua, yes, that's the Dapper version.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Right.
* Fujitsu curses a lot.
<TheMuso> We so need that.
<TheMuso> As for the build farm, it seems that at least some of us are trying to work on that.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, can you please apt-get source --build gcl?
<Fujitsu> Hopefully it was just a buildd having a heart attack.
<TheMuso> I'm on it.
<minghua> I always put the bug on "fix committed" status after uploading the fix, and change to "fix released" why it builds on all arches
<TheMuso> DOwnloading now.
<minghua> just as a reminder to myself
<Fujitsu> minghua, as do I, generally, but there wasn't a bug on this.
<TheMuso> minghua: THats what I/my uploaders have been doing.
<minghua> Fujitsu: I see
<minghua> apparently everybody want to track build failures on LP
<TheMuso> SOurce still unpacking.
<TheMuso> meh need to install build-deps
<Fujitsu> Thanks a lot for this, TheMuso.
<TheMuso> np
* TheMuso gets ready for walk so he can leave after the build finishes, whether for good or ill.
<TheMuso> Still fetching packages.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, ping
<TheMuso> imbrandon: pong
<imbrandon> TheMuso, http://www.imbrandon.com/ubuntu-cross-compiler-howto/  here is where i'm at, should take about 15 minutes to get to the same spot
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon hey
<imbrandon> its not a work of art, but i'll clean it up as i go
<TheMuso> imbrandon: ok thanks dood
<imbrandon> hello Admiral_Chicago
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm thinking about being a package maintainer
<Admiral_Chicago> whan do you think?
<Admiral_Chicago> i have no idea how to do it though.
<imbrandon> Admiral_Chicago, cool, if thats what you want to do ;)
<imbrandon> read the package guide to start your self off
<Fujitsu> Anybody have any idea what a GBC is? I find it unlikely that gcl on PPC requires a Gameboy Color...
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon i have the links
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, lol
<Admiral_Chicago> but i'll probably get to them some time later this week
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Ok, it is now attempting to be built.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, it unfortunately takes ages...
<TheMuso> How long is ages?
<Fujitsu> Ah, this one finished with a few minutes, though.
<imbrandon> Admiral_Chicago, cool, after a few weeks you should get the hang of it pretty fast
<Admiral_Chicago> i hear that
<Fujitsu> The entire build can take up to 1.5 hours on a Pentium M 1.6... But if it gets through the first 10 or 15 minutes, I'll say it works.
<Admiral_Chicago> i still need to become a member of Ubuntu...how does that occur
<imbrandon> !newmember
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about newmember - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<imbrandon> hum one sec
<imbrandon> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/NewMemberHowto
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Ok, since I am dealing with a G3 300 here, that could be quite a while./
<TheMuso> imbrandon: debian/rules control to do with to do with gcc. What do you mean by that?
<imbrandon> actualy type that on the command line
<imbrandon> it will prep the build
<TheMuso> ah right.
<TheMuso> I get it now.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: It is compiling now, so we'll see what happens.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: So I guess that is not the complete procedure?
<imbrandon> well it is
<imbrandon> but the gcc compile needs a bit of love
<TheMuso> Which you are still working out right?
<imbrandon> as in i've had to patch a few of the *.install files from the /debian dir
<imbrandon> right
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, what stage is it up to? Has it passed configure?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yes.
<Fujitsu> It failed while make was in gcl-2.6.7/unixport, so once it passes through the directory, we should be OK.
<TheMuso> Not up to there yet.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I am going out for a walk, I will let you know how its going when I get back if thats ok.
<Fujitsu> OK, that's fine. I'll be gone in about 40 minutes for about 3 or 4 hours, but I'll leave my client open, so you can /msg me if I'm not around :)
<Fujitsu> Again, many thanks... It's non-trivial to fix this sort of thing without having a machine to test it on :)
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yeah I know.
<TheMuso> I don't know whether you were here when I was telling imbrandon or not, but I was thinking of getting rid of this G3, and picking up a G4 dual 1Ghz quicksilver which needs a few repairs done to it, and using that.
<TheMuso> Then I'd consider offering people build/test accounts on it.
<Fujitsu> Ooh, nice.
<Fujitsu> OK, I'm off for about 10 minutes now.
<TheMuso> ok cya
<superm1> imbrandon, imbrandon_ ping?
<imbrandon> pong
<superm1> ah hello
<superm1> i had a couple of debdiff that I finished assembling to update mythtv and mythplugins related to some chatter here in the channel, some bugs on LP, and a newer debian revision from debian multimedia.  I was wondering if u could glance at them?  bug 64285 and bug 63486
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64285 in mythtv "Update to newer debian multimedia revision" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64285
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63486 in mythplugins "mythphone causes mythfrontend seg fault on amd64" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63486
<imbrandon> sure
<superm1> Thx
<siretart> imbrandon: hey
<siretart> imbrandon: I read you want to tackle bug #63130?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63130 in amarok "Amarok does not play *.shn files" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63130
<ajmitch> hey siretart
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<siretart> imbrandon: if you do, would you mind doing it in the branch https://launchpad.net/people/siretart/+branch/xine-lib/xine-lib.ubuntu-main+repacked1.1.1.2?
<siretart> imbrandon: this is my packaging branch for current xine in ubuntu
<imbrandon> siretart, sure thing
<imbrandon> infact i was just about to tackle that today
<imbrandon> wow bzr is crazy slow sometimes
<lifeless> imbrandon: what are you doing ?
<lifeless> imbrandon: and what version ?
<imbrandon> branching
<imbrandon> and um latestest in edgy
<imbrandon> lemme check
<freeflying> imbrandon: not sometimes  :)
<lifeless> imbrandon: from where to where ?
<imbrandon> Bazaar (bzr) 0.11.0
<imbrandon> lifeless, bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~siretart/xine-lib/xine-lib.ubuntu-main+repacked1.1.1.2
<imbrandon> localy
<lifeless> imbrandon: ok, that should not be slow :(
<lifeless> for that operation, we can beat rsync at speed
<imbrandon> its been running 3 minutesa and still halfway through step 1 / 4
<imbrandon> s/step/phase
<lifeless> one of the problems is that step 1 is about 10 times larger than the other steps combined, or more
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> whats it doing other then just grabbing a snapshot of the latest branch ?
<siretart> it fetches the complete history?
<imbrandon> shouldent it go atleaste at http speeds?
<siretart> that branch contains ALL revision since xine started ;)
<imbrandon> heh wow
<dholbach> good morning
<lifeless> imbrandon: as siretart says
<siretart> morning dholbach!
<imbrandon> moins dholbach
<imbrandon> lifeless, wow , is there a "lite" branch or something to only get the latest revision like svn ?
<dholbach> hey siretart, imbrandon
<lifeless> imbrandon: there is, but at the moment it still pulls essentially the same data. however, with the smart server in 0.12 it should be about the same as svn
<lifeless> its 'checkout --lightweight' if you want to use it now, though like I say - it wont be fast
<imbrandon> nice , cool , i'll be looking forward to it ;)
<imbrandon> yea i'll wait , no biggie heh
<lifeless> anyway, it shold finish in a minute or two
<lifeless> siretart: whats the revno in that branch ?
<imbrandon> yup just did 466 revisions ;)_
<imbrandon> s/_//
<tepsipakki> any ideas how to use a OTHERMIRROR with pbuilder which is signed? update complains about the signature, as it would
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: FTBFS
<imbrandon> siretart, would you rather me put this in its own diff or mv ubuntu2.diff ubuntu3.diff add it to that and change the rules accordingly
<siretart> imbrandon: err, sorry?
<imbrandon> right now to have one large ubutnu2.diff
<sivang> morning
<imbrandon> ubuntu2*
<siretart> why a large ubuntu2.diff? whats in there?
<imbrandon> yes
<siretart> I understand the patch is rather small?
<imbrandon> thats whats there currently , not a debian/patches
<imbrandon> yea its tiny, 3 or 4 lines
<siretart> xine-lib doesn't use dpatch or stuff
<imbrandon> no no currently , untouched by me , the bzr checkout there is a large debian/ubuntu2.diff
<siretart> just plain bzr
<imbrandon> for the changes from debian proper i'm guessing
<siretart> I maintain xine in both debian and ubuntu. I have different branches, but I exchange revisions here and there
<imbrandon> ahh ok , so just patch the source directly and push my branch for you to look at ?
<siretart> jepp. that would be most convinient for me
<imbrandon> rockin
<imbrandon> k
<siretart> if thats too painfull for you, I can also fetch your upload, generate a debdiff and import that
<imbrandon> no thats fine by me, its just not how i'm used to doing it so i wanted to be clear
<imbrandon> ;)
<siretart> :)
<tepsipakki> to answer my question about pbuilder: I used APTCONFDIR, that copies amongst others the trusted.gpg to the chroot
<tepsipakki> and it seems to work.
<imbrandon> tepsipakki, sounds about right
<tepsipakki> maybe some sort of a hook would also do, especially if I'd want to use other suite than the host system
<tepsipakki> there, nfs-common_1.0.10-1 built for dapper ;)
<tepsipakki> it didn't before, since the necessary libraries were on the local repository
<imbrandon> siretart, ok pushing now, i'll poke ya when its done
<imbrandon> TheMuso, great email, i'll add some of my comments on this later this afternoon ( maybe sooner ) once i've woken up a bit more ;)
<TheMuso> Ok np.
<tepsipakki> siretart: about bug 64189, it is now assigned to me (yay!), but I've got no upload rights :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64189 in libpam-krb5 "UVF: please sync from debian" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64189
<imbrandon> well if its a sync you shouldent need upload rights
<tepsipakki> right, but I need to poke someone?
<imbrandon> subscribe ubuntu-archive, looks like all the other ducks are in a row
<imbrandon> and they will get to it on the next archive round
<tepsipakki> ah, alright!
<ajmitch> tepsipakki: thanks for filing that
<ajmitch> tepsipakki: I wanted a new libpam-krb5 as well
<ajmitch> siretart: shall we get libpam-heimdal in also?
<tepsipakki> ajmitch: np, it was on my list before but I've been offline for a while ;)
<tepsipakki> actually since June
<siretart> ajmitch: sure
<ajmitch> hehe
<siretart> tepsipakki: see the MOTU FAQ
<ajmitch> siretart: you saw my note about it being the same source?
<siretart> ajmitch: I remember that. yes
<tepsipakki> siretart: ok, maybe I'll keep remembering stuff better gradually ;)
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<sivang> hey ajmitch , \sh
<\sh> moins
<imbrandon> siretart, ping
* dholbach hugs crimsun
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<dholbach> heya imbrandon
* ajmitch mutters
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, oh darn.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Want a build log?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, yes please :)
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/gcl-build.log
<Fujitsu> Exactly the same error :(
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: the patch didn't fix it?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, different thing. gcl from Debian FTBFS on PPC Edgy.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> damn wrong console. :)
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, you seem to often do that :)
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yeah.
<TheMuso> I often think my hands can work as fast as my brain. :)
<TheMuso> If any MOTU sponsors could please review the debdiff attached to Malone #63897 that would be great. Thanks.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63897 in speech-tools "source package will not build on edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63897
* Fujitsu looks.
<Fujitsu> That's in main.
<TheMuso> No its not
<StevenK> speech-tools | 1:1.2.3-9.3 | http://au.archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Packages
<StevenK> TheMuso wins.
<Fujitsu> On the LP page:
<Fujitsu> Component:  main
<imbrandon> speech-tools | 1:1.2.3-9.3 | http://192.168.1.5 edgy/main Sources
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, wins
<Fujitsu> Yeah, the source is in main.
<imbrandon> source main , package universe?
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> That's .... odd.
<TheMuso> ah yes I see
<TheMuso> Ok.
<imbrandon> wonder why
<Fujitsu> It produces a library as well, which I believe is in main.
<TheMuso> I'll fix that one up
<imbrandon> ahh
<TheMuso> Yeah looks like it/.
<Fujitsu> Yeah, libestools1.2 is in main.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, just a bashism fix? i can upload
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Yeah. Thats what the bug report is about
<TheMuso> So I just applied the fix.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, the diff is trivial.
<imbrandon> kk i got it, no need to fix the bug
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> imbrandon: BTW have you had more thoughts on the build farm project?
<imbrandon> TheMuso, uploaded and bug closed
<TheMuso> Thanks dude.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yea makin a email now
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Wow. Major IRC breakage.
* StevenK shivers.
<StevenK> Why oh why does the second assignment need to be ASP.
* TheMuso sympathises with StevenK.
<bddebian> Becase ASP ROCKS :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
* StevenK converts bddebian's ELF headers to a.out
<bddebian> heh
<thom> StevenK: asp.NIT?
<StevenK> Anything that furthers Visual Basic as a viable language is something to be avoided in my opinion.
<bddebian> ASP != Visual Basic
<StevenK> It is when language="VBScript"
<bddebian> VBScript != Visual Basic either
<bddebian> But you can also write ASP in JScript, C#, etc :)
<StevenK> bddebian: My point is it isn't a .. real language, like Perl, Python or Ruby.
<bddebian> :-)
* StevenK looks at a few bugs to make him feel better.
<TheMuso> Bedtime I think.
<StevenK> % dpkg -c verbiste_0.1.14-1.1build1_amd64.deb | grep locale.al
<StevenK> -rw-r--r-- root/root      2666 2006-10-07 00:24:17 ./usr/share/locale/locale.alias
<StevenK> Leet.
<superm1> imbrandon, did you get a chance the last few hours to take a look at the two debdiffs I had up there?
<freeflying> can I ask sync a new package from sid now?
<imbrandon> superm1, not yet but i will today
<superm1> Oh ok.  wasn't sure how busy you were
<superm1> Have a good day then, i'll be off to work shortly. :)
<crimsun> freeflying: if it's a brand new one not currently in Ubuntu, it needs to adhere to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF
<freeflying> crimsun: thanks
<crimsun> np
<matid> Any MIT student here?
<sladen> matid: ask mako
<matid> sladen: Thanks, I'll get in touch with him
<sladen> matid: you after PGP signing or somesuch?
<matid> sladen: Not really, I'd like to apply and I want to get some testimonials
<matid> I need to know if it's manageable to both study and work, what are the expenses, etc.
<matid> But if mako is working at MIT, I think he should know
<LaserJock> nixternal: ping
<nixternal> pong
<LaserJock> nixternal: seriously, I post a lengthly philosophical blog post and all you have to comment on is my lack of hair? ;-)
<nixternal> hahahaha
<nixternal> i kind of figured that was what the ping was about ;)
<nixternal> i think the lack of hair displays your true philosophical nature and is only an attribute some of us weren't blessed with ;)
<LaserJock> hehe, well when I wear my glasses my true nerdy chemist look shows ;-)
* nixternal uses Gimp, the new hairclub for men
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> my Gimp skills are really bad
<LaserJock> it took me several tries to get that hackergotchi
<nixternal> i thought i was going to be good and not go through with loosing hair..as my dad hasn't yet, but my younger bro is almost bald..well it seems the crown is starting to thin
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> my dad is pretty bald
<nixternal> i am a mad man when it comes to hackergotchi's...i can pump them out in a matter of 1 to 2 minutes now
<LaserJock> my older brother is pretty much bald
<nixternal> only took me a million tries though to become and expert
<LaserJock> my grandpa had all his hair
<LaserJock> and I thought I'd maybe get some of his genes
<nixternal> haha
<LaserJock> but alas, it was not to be
<LaserJock> and now he is bald as he just started chemo
<nixternal> ya, i thought i would get or had the same genes as my dad...boy was i wrong
<nixternal> well chemo is cheating in order to get the bald effect
<nixternal> my neighbor who i have known all my life just started, and she has lost all her hair as well
<phanatic> good evening
<nixternal> i bought an ubuntu hat for her, but good old cafe pres sent me a piece of garbage that lasted a solid month and fell apart
<nixternal> hiya phanatic
<phanatic> hey nixternal
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Who do I need to talk to about Cinerella? To get it packaged and in a repo?
<LaserJock> _MMA_: the MOTU I would imagine :-)
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> LaserJock: I just built a new disk. Our base + the audio apps. 674megs.
<LaserJock> nixternal: yeah, we need some better Ubuntu merchendise ;-)
<LaserJock> _MMA_: did you remove everything you were talking about last night?
<LaserJock> _MMA_: and is that a live cd?
<_MMA_> Yes its live. Heres the "remove" list:
<_MMA_> deskbar-applet diveintopython yelp xvncviewer rhythmbox gnopernicus gok screensaver-default-images xscreensaver-data xscreensaver-gl gnome-accessibility-themes f-spot example-content gnome-btdownload gaim edgy-wallpapers ekiga gimp gimp-data gimp-print gimp-python ubuntu-docs gnome-games-data openoffice.org* evolution* gnome2-user-guide libsane xsane xsane-common tsclient gnome-orca
<_MMA_> Im gonna add somethings back in. Move others to other meta-packages.
<sivang> is this part of the list of unmept deps? :-)
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> it's a new derivative, mubuntu
<_MMA_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mubuntu
<_MMA_> WIKI still needs work.
<LaserJock> _MMA_: you might look at adding back in a couple things that other apps will need. yelp is used I think a fair amount, as is the evolution-data-server
<_MMA_> Yelp was one I was thinking. What else uses evolution-data-server?
<LaserJock> I can't remember for sure, but more then just evolution
<_MMA_> Ill look into it.
<LaserJock> gnome-panel and gnome-contro-center depend on it
<LaserJock> _MMA_: do apt-cache rdepends <packagename> to see what packages depend on <packagename>
<_MMA_> I dont know. That package alone is 11megs. In what way do gnome-panel and gnome-contro-center depend on it?
<_MMA_> If we can structure the disks the way I want its really no problem. That is still up in the air.
<_MMA_> 2 CDs or 1 DVD. I dont know if the final say is up to me.
<LaserJock> it depends on libedataserver1.2-7
<LaserJock> how did you get you get it to work without taking out gnome-panel?
<_MMA_> I just removed THAT package.
<_MMA_> The live disk worked fine. :)
<LaserJock> so did you renove libedataserver1.2-7
<_MMA_> Lemmie look.
<LaserJock> maybe more importantly, did you remove libedataserverui1.2-6
<_MMA_> is 1.2-6 right?
<LaserJock> I don't know sercher for the base
<LaserJock> phew, I'm typing bad today
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Crap. I have to go. Ill look into those packages and let you know. Do you want to test the .iso when I get it together?
<LaserJock> ok, well it looks to me like it's just a Recommends: or Suggests: in gnome-panel and gnome-control-center
<_MMA_> Ok.
<_MMA_> not a dep.
<LaserJock> so removing evolution-data-center itself isn't a problem
<LaserJock> *evolution-data-server
<LaserJock> I gotta go too
<LaserJock> glad to hear you have a little space left though ;-)
<_MMA_> Ill get better. For some reason lillypond-data didnt get pulled though.
<_MMA_> Had to go back and add it.
<LaserJock> _MMA_: btw, I mentioned mubuntu in my planet blog post ;-)
<_MMA_> Nice. Thank you.
<_MMA_> I really hope we can get out something that can aid some serious linux media creation. :)
<_MMA_> Or... media creation on linux.
<kristog> _MMA_AWAY: do you use cinelerra
<kristog> ?
<_MMA_AWAY> kristog: No sir I dont. But I see it as the equivalent to Ardour but for video. So I want to get it into the repos.
<kristog> what cinelerra?
<chillywilly> bah, just did a fresh install of dapper server edition and it hangs on the boot linux line :(
<chillywilly> bah
<bddebian>  noapic nolapic?
<chillywilly> Ok, booting the kernel. line...guess I'll try again...
<chillywilly> bddebian: I dunno man, it's a mini-ITX box
<chillywilly> never had to put any special options in the last time I installed on it
* chillywilly tried "Rescue a broken system"
<chillywilly> tries*
<_MMA_AWAY> kristog: I dont know what you mean by that.
<kristog> _MMA_AWAY: do you want cinelerra in universe?
<aigarius> who do I talk to get an update of a universe package to (now frozen) edgy? bugfix release responding to bugs found by edgy beta testers.
<kristog> what package?
<aigarius> kristog: sbackup
<_MMA_AWAY> kristog: Yes.
<kristog> hello aigarius :)
<kristog> _MMA_AWAY: cool, i guess you want try cinellera-CV (cvs.cinelerra.org)
<_MMA_AWAY> kristog: There looks to be someone who maintains Ubuntu packages for cinerella-CV but I dont know why they dont try to get them in universe. They maintain Breezy and Dapper packages.
<aigarius> kristog: hello indeed, didn't recognise you behind that irc nick :)
<_MMA_AWAY> Im going to email them.
<_MMA_AWAY> To see if they would work with me.
<dholbach> aigarius: can you file a bug on that?
<dholbach> aigarius:  http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/sbackup/+filebug ?
<dholbach> as we're in freeze, somebody will have to step up to write a http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF for it
<dholbach> but I trust somebody in here will step up and do it :-)
<dholbach> . o O { they can't ALL be lazy ;-) }
* dholbach runs
<aigarius> need ack for syncing - https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/sbackup/+bug/64402
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64402 in sbackup "Bugfix-only release 0.10.2 is available - please sync" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<aigarius> no Ubuntu specific changes present, if that helps
<keescook> If I have a bugfix (rather than a sync or upstream version) for something in universe, should I still open a UVF and attach my debdiff, build logs, etc?
<aigarius> should I assing this to ubuntu-universe-sponsors or motu-uvf ?
<dholbach> aigarius: motu-uvf - i'll take a look
<dholbach> keescook: only if it's a new upstream release
<aigarius> dholbach: ok, thanks
<keescook> dholbach: okay, cool.  For bug fix stuff, should I attach the debdiff to the bug it fixes?  (I have an area on rookery I use for security uploads with pitti too)
<dholbach> aigarius: thanks for your work on it - looks good
<dholbach> keescook: debdiff is cool, yes
<dholbach> keescook: attaching it is a good thing also - yeah
<keescook> dholbach: okay.  who should I assign the bug to to get the upload through?
<dholbach> for universe: ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<dholbach> for universe/multiverse: ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<dholbach> for main/restricted: ubuntu-main-sponsors
<keescook> okay, thanks.
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ links to the announcement mail
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<joejaxx> Gloubiboulga: hello
<joejaxx> may i pm you?
<Gloubiboulga> joejaxx, sure
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon you around?
<Admiral_Chicago> i suppose not
<sivang> who's the guy that worked on the ubuntu packaging guide?
<zul> LaserJock i think
<LaserJock> woah
<LaserJock> sivang: what's up, want to complain about the packaging guide?
<sivang> LaserJock: I want to hug you for it, great reference for the "from scratch" packaging :-)
<sivang> LaserJock: my favorite part
<LaserJock> heh
<sivang> thinking of letting my gf use it, to start doing some package for Ubuntu or so
<LaserJock> it's not exactly complete, but it's getting there
<sivang> LaserJock: I like it very much, this is the same piece that is shipped in Ubuntu docs right?
<LaserJock> yep
<sivang> LaserJock: cool
<LaserJock> we also have a print version of the Dapper one on lulu.com
<sivang> she's going to start IRCing a bit and maybe try get into packaging and development.
<LaserJock> very cool
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<liatm> Hi all
* liatm wanna get invoulved in developing and packaging for Ubuntu... sivang pointed  me to this channel
<LaserJock> hi
<LaserJock> yes, sivang was just saying something about that ;-)
<liatm> LaserJock:  cool, he also sent me an RTFMing over your mannual (instead of directly mentoring me :-p  )
<liatm> sladen: hi Paul, remember me ?
<LaserJock> naughty sivang
<LaserJock> sivang: didn't we MOTUs teach you better? ;-)
<sivang> LaserJock: Well, every good study starts with some reading :) I'm not here right, anyhow :-)
<LaserJock> liatm: have you read the whole thing?
<liatm> LaserJock: i've just started reading  (finished the Introduction chapter allready :) )
<LaserJock> good start then
<dholbach> good night
<LaserJock> cy dholbach
<yosch> hi guys
<yosch> anybody can give me pointers on where I need to look if I want to add things to the /home/ of the user created at boot time by the dapper livecd? casper?
<yosch> i'm doing a little livecd remixing
<LaserJock> well, you have to look at the scripts that are used to create the user's ~/
<LaserJock> and modify them to do what you want
<LaserJock> bddebian: did you do the scilab 4 stuff?
<yosch> LaserJock: yep, can't seem to find them, will do some more aggressive grepping
<Toadstool> yosch: maybe it uses /etc/skel...
<yosch> Toadstool: mm, but I'd like to copy over more than just dotfiles
<LaserJock> it uses scripts
<yosch> LaserJock: I think I got it: I'm looking into usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/casper-bottom  is that what you had in mind? Do I need to look somewhere else?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Nope, it was a sync wasn't it?
<Toadstool> yosch: casper-bottom/10adduser
<yosch> Toadstool: yep looks like it :)
<Toadstool> yosch: it uses the user-setup package
<LaserJock> bddebian: it only compiled on i386
<LaserJock> :/
<bddebian> :-(
<chillywilly> if I have a .dsc, .orig.tar.gz, and a .diff.gz file how can I quickly build a package?
<LaserJock> chillywilly: do you have a pbuilder?
<chillywilly> yea
<LaserJock> pbuilder build *.dsc
<chillywilly> I suppose I could get off my butt and look at the guide again...
<chillywilly> thanks
<bddebian> dpkg-source -x foo.dsc
<bddebian> cd foo-1.0
<bddebian> dpkg-buildpackage
<LaserJock> oh man, overkill ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Well if he didn't have pbuilder :)
<Toadstool> bddebian: you forgot apt-get build-dep ;)
<bddebian> Oh yeah, hehe
<LaserJock> yucky
<LaserJock> I'd rather build a pbuilder than do apt-get build-dep ;-)
<Toadstool> heh
<Toadstool> even better /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends :p
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I've been using that a bit lately
<bddebian> Later gang
<joejaxx> imbrandon_: are you around?
<gnomefreak> i saw 3 people that would know but now down to one lol
<gnomefreak> brb smoke time
<Laser_away> gnomefreak: know what?
<gnomefreak> Laser_away: a gpg key issue
<zachtib> hey, i was told to ask this here: is there a flag for dpkg-buildpkg to chown the files in the deb to root?  after i built a deb of my program and installed it, the files and directories installed were still owned and thus writable by me
<azeem> zachtib: no, chown them in debian/rules
<zachtib> ok, thanks
<minghua> azeem: that sounds weird
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-07
<minghua> azeem: I suspect something is wrong during the build, like without -rfakeroot or something
<azeem> hrm, maybe
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<theCore> is there different policies in Ubuntu debian/rules than Debian?
<Laser_away> nope
<theCore> ok, thanks
<theCore> in the install rule should I test for root, with dh_testroot?
<theCore> or I just do a distclean
<Laser_away> dh_testroot is fine I think
<theCore> nevermind, I just misread my diff
<theCore> while I trying to fix a bug, is it correct to merge some the changes from Debian?
<theCore> or, should I just keep it the minimum
<Laser_away> try to keep divergence to a minimum, but if we need it, we need it
<theCore> what if there's some real ugliness in the rules file?
<theCore> like calling ln -s twenty times
<theCore> instead of calling dh_installman
<azeem> theCore: does the package Build-Depend on debhelper?
<theCore> azeem, yes
<jdong> aw crap, missed nafallo
* jdong bangs head on desk
<theCore> I don't know why but I find packaging quite fun
<crimsun> jdong: I respectfully disagree regarding backporting being managed by one person. Although I definitely encourage you to seek ubuntu-dev membership to alleviate the bottleneck in processing backports, backports really need to be confirmed by a majority of the team members.
<jdong> crimsun: me too... there used to be a more active backporting team, but they've all gone their directions
<jdong> the whole way backports is done needs to be re-hashed
<jdong> maybe I'll add that to TB instead
<crimsun> currently core-dev can upload to dapper-backports, so that's not a bottleneck
<gnomefreak> is there a how to for nackports
<crimsun> I'm happy to elide the team into a sort of de facto ubuntu-backports-sponsors
<gnomefreak> backports*
<jdong> gnomefreak: take an edgy package, add "~dapper1" to the version, and send it through a dapper pbuilder
<jdong> gnomefreak: the hours and hours of work is in making sure those packages work
<jdong> and even with those hours one person can still let things slip through
<jdong> *cough* flashplayer *cough* :(
<crimsun> ...which should /not/ have been backported. It should have gone into -security.
<Laser_away> is there a way to use something like -proposed?
<Laser_away> or is that adding too many layers
<jdong> Laser_away: unofficial backports had a proposed (staging) repo
<jdong> official backports doesn't
<Laser_away> there's unofficial backports?
* gnomefreak would like to play with that see if i cant get hang of it. so only dapper pbuilder is needed no edgy one?
<crimsun> unofficial? sure. hello ch*kinstall?
* crimsun washes out his mouth
<Laser_away> crimsun: if it's good enough for a distro it's got to be good enough for -backports ;-)
<crimsun> :-)
* theCore gives a soap bar to crimsun 
<gnomefreak> jdong: all i need is a dapper pbuilder for backports or building dapper packages/patches
<theCore> what is the syntax for debian/package.manpages?
* gnomefreak loves checkinstall :(
<ajmitch> gnomefreak: that's deserving of a ban in here :)
<gnomefreak> ;) it was what i learned im building pbuilder atm so maybe no more using it ;)
<gnomefreak> brb dinner
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> from someone coming in to upstream's channel asking a question, to leaving because they think the project is dead.. 3 minutes
<ajmitch> that has to be a new record
<TheMuso> whaa! Another kernel.
<ajmitch> yay!
<joejaxx> anyone know anything here about gpgkeys? i cannot build packages until i solve this gpg issue
<theCore> TheMuso, there's a new kernel everyday
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<gnomefreak> pbuilder doesnt like to build on edgy :(
<keescook> whee.  anyone want to sponsor my inkscape fix for bug 63644?  I've attached a debdiff for it.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63644 in inkscape "Annoying error pop up when saving for first time." [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63644
<gnomefreak> can i skip this step? sudo pbuilder build *.dsc  its tell me no pbuilderrc file
<gnomefreak> and *.dsc is bad
<bddebian> That is just a warning
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> just a warning
<gnomefreak> ok so im ok on both of those?
<bddebian> I don't think you can specify *.dsc
<bddebian> But I could be wrong
* gnomefreak going by guide. same guide that gave me issues last time i tried packaging
<chillywilly> sure you can
<StevenK> gnomefreak: "pdebuild" in the source tree
<chillywilly> if you have 1 .dsc file in the cwd
<joejaxx> anyone here works with meta packages?
<theCore> what does dh_install -s ?
<chillywilly> man dh_install
<theCore> chillywilly, -s isn't documented
<theCore> that's why I ask
<Toadstool> theCore: there are common options for all the dh_* scripts and they are documented in man debhelper
<theCore> Toadstool, thanks
<joejaxx> Toadstool: do you build meta-packages?
<Toadstool> joejaxx: er, why?
<joejaxx> i have built one but i have a question about it
<Toadstool> just ask :)
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> well i was looking at the ubuntu-meta package
<joejaxx> and i followed the same format for the fluxbuntu-meta package
<joejaxx> but during build time i get warning
<joejaxx> like that
<joejaxx> dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${fluxbuntu-desktop:Depends}
<joejaxx> like this*
<Toadstool> hmm, wait, having a look at ubuntu-meta
<joejaxx> instead of putting that variable there should i just put the depends?
<theCore> where does dh_installman should be called?
<theCore> in install or binary-arch?
<Toadstool> joejaxx: look at how the ubuntu-$$package:Depends substitution vars are generated in ubuntu-meta debian/rules
<joejaxx> ok
<Toadstool> the for loop in build-stamp: target
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> so now i have to create fluxbuntu-* seeds?
<joejaxx> or should i just replace the variables with the real depends?
<Toadstool> hmm... dunno
<Toadstool> do you know exactly what Depnds you want?
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> but it seems that that build-stamp way is better
<joejaxx> because it pulls from the seed list
<joejaxx> so all you have to do is update the seed list
<Toadstool> and use germinate
<Toadstool> which is done by the update script in ubuntu-meta afaik
<joejaxx> well there is no such thing as fluxbuntu-* seeds right now
<joejaxx> so i think it whould just be better to manually have the depends in there
<Toadstool> joejaxx: seeds are just text files in a bzr branch -> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/
<theCore> what the recommended optimization flag? -Os or -O2
<theCore> what is*
<joejaxx> Toadstool: yeah i know those are the official ubuntu seeds though
<joejaxx> Toadstool: it is not like i can create fluxbuntu seeds and have them put there lol
<Toadstool> no but you can put them somewhere else
<joejaxx> but how do i change where the os looks for the seeds?
<Toadstool> dunno, there must be some kind of option for germinate
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> actually i think there is
<joejaxx> where is germinate called in this process?
<Toadstool> joejaxx: it's not automatically called
<Toadstool> it's explained in README
<Toadstool> and you can configure where update look for seeds in update.cfg ;)
<Toadstool> *looks
<joejaxx> boom found it
<joejaxx> Toadstool: i did not see that README other wise i whould have read it
<joejaxx> sorry about that
<Toadstool> np
<joejaxx> seed_base = 'http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/%s/ :D
<theCore> is there a cleaner way to do this? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25866/
<theCore> I'm thinking using a variable with a for loop
<theCore> any ideas?
<theCore> I am not lucky today; 3 questions, 0 answer :/
<theCore> I guess I will be on my own for this one
<bddebian> OK, I am learning to fucking hate scanf()
<bddebian> theCore: Sorry, I just don't know
<theCore> bddebian, it's alright, I found out myself
<Toadstool> bddebian: still on your I-want-to-ignore-non-numeric-chars-with-scanf issue?
<bddebian> Toadstool: No, now I'm trying to restrict the number of chars in a string
<Toadstool> oh, ok
<micahcowan> bddebian, I think all expert C users have learned to hate scanf().
<micahcowan> scanf() isn't very good for restricting input characters in a string. To do it, you have to specify the limiting number of characters... as a string. So when that upper limit needs to be dynamic... well, it kinda sucks.
<bddebian> micahcowan: What's a better way? gets(), getch()?
<micahcowan> bddebian, gets() is evil. Never use it for anything.
<micahcowan> Probably fgets() or similar. I'll typically use fgets() or something, and then I might use sscanf() if I wanted more interesting conversions...
<bddebian> What is the diff between scanf() and sscanf()?
<micahcowan> sscanf() scans a string instead of stdin.
<theCore> how much changes I'm allowed to do in debian/ past the freeze?
<theCore> bddebian, I saw an article once about using scanf() securely
<theCore> maybe I could find it
<micahcowan> I've very few uses for scanf(), actually: strtol() and the like give much better error-handling for numeric conversions, and most of the time I can just search for the end of whatever other token I might want. the character classes can occaisionally be handy, though.
<micahcowan> *I've found very few...
<theCore> hmm, it seems a better solution is using fgets with sscanf
<theCore> but, then you still need to check for malicious input
<bddebian> micahcowan: So what do you use to get user input?
<pschulz01> G'day...
<micahcowan> bddebian, usually fgets(), and then process the resulting string. If I can assume GNU, then I might use getline() instead.
<Toadstool> bddebian: users?! since when do C programmers care about users? :)
* bddebian kills himself
<micahcowan> readline() if I want fancier capabilities
<pschulz01> I am looking at libgphoto2-2.2.1 documentation. I would like to submit a patch, but there are three different documentation types present (lyx,sgml,txt). Anyone have any idea what the 'real' documentation is?
<pschulz01> The 'sgml' file says that it was generated by lyx.
<pschulz01> I'm guessing that it's the lyx file then,
<theCore> bddebian, how about this? char buffer[21] ; fgets(buffer, 20, stdin); if (strchr(buffer, '\n')) {(*(strchr(buffer, '\n'))) = '\0';}
<bddebian> What happens if I input 22 chars?
<theCore> it will only read the first 20
<theCore> including the \n
<theCore> so, only 19 will be read
<bddebian> Are you sure?  I did a similar thing with scanf() and it overflows the buffer
<theCore> pretty much
<micahcowan> scanf() is built that way. Note that fgets() specifically takes a size argument.
<bddebian> So does scanf() supposedly, if I use scanf( "%10s", foo )
<micahcowan> However, whatever's left over will still be left in stdin, so you have to flush it out (/not/ with fflush()) by reading until the newline.
<micahcowan> That shouldn't have overflowed the buffer if foo was size 11 or more...
<bddebian>  foo = malloc (sizeof (char) * 11)
<micahcowan> sizeof (char) is always 1
<bddebian> Yes
<bddebian> I know that was a stupid way to do it :)
<micahcowan> How did you detect overflow?
<bddebian> I'm dumping it all to a "stack".. I'll post the code is a sec
<bddebian> s/is/in/
<bddebian> micahcowan: No laughing: http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/junk/ams/learn3.c :)
<Toadstool> GNU/Hurd? :)
<theCore> nice a calculator
<theCore> bddebian, do you know about function pointers?
<theCore> is it a reverse-polish calc?
<theCore> uptime: 3.8 months. that's a lot
<bddebian> Toadstool: But of course :)
<bddebian> theCore: For Hurd it is :)
<theCore> bddebian, you're not doing kernel update often, for sure
<bddebian> theCore: Yes I know about function pointers, I'm just playing/learning
<Toadstool> bddebian: I am playing with Pistachio and other microkernels at work :)
<theCore> I got Steven's APUE just beside me, I think I will play/learn a little bit too
<bddebian> Toadstool: Sweet, finish porting that sucker to GNU/Hurd will ya? ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: you still persist with that hurd stuff?
<Toadstool> bddebian: haha
<bddebian> ajmitch: Yep, got 5 of them running now :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: port mach to xen kthx
<bddebian> ajmitch: youpi is doing that
<ajmitch> oh good, then it might be remotely useful to work on :)
<ajmitch> I saw the task open on savannah, didn't know someone was doing it
<theCore> a herd of Hurd!
<ajmitch> theCore: no, a hird
<LaserJock> anybody know of some web pased project managment software?
<theCore> ajmitch, :)
<bddebian> So the one guy I ask to look at my shitty code doesn't answer :-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: maybe he's recovering
<bddebian> :'-(
<LaserJock> it's your code bddebian?
<bddebian> yep
<LaserJock> can  you do that in C++?
<LaserJock> :-)
<bddebian> Not a freakin' chance but I'm going to try it in assembler next :-)
<theCore> ugh!
<LaserJock> hmm, how about python?
<bddebian> Possibly
<bddebian> I did a similar thing in postscript a while back
<LaserJock> I'm wanting to learn C++
<LaserJock> that's why I asked
<bddebian> Me too eventually
<theCore> LaserJock, maybe you should with C
<bddebian> Gah micahcowan left :-(
<theCore> LaserJock, C++ is a big-hairy beast
<bddebian> I didn't think it was THAT bad :-(
<LaserJock> well, I have a project I want to help with that is written in C++
<bddebian> The L4 microkernel? ;-)
<theCore> "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg." -- Bjarne Stroustrup
<bddebian> haha
<theCore> that's my favourite quote about C++
<LaserJock> it's a gnome chemistry project
<bddebian> cool
<LaserJock> it really is a sweet project
<LaserJock> actually several
<LaserJock> all done by one guy
<theCore> LaserJock, what the name of the app?
<theCore> what's*
<bddebian> Oh, the guy with the website for bkchem and all that?
<LaserJock> not bkchem, I don't think
<LaserJock> he does
<LaserJock> chemical-mime-data
<LaserJock> gnome-chemistry-utils
<LaserJock> gchempaint
<LaserJock> by himself
<LaserJock> and also works on goffice and abiword
<bddebian> Oh aye, the chemical-mime-data stuff
<theCore> what does I do when I'm done with my package?
<LaserJock> put it on REVU
<theCore> LaserJock, it is not a new package
<theCore> I just post my patch on Launchpad?
<imbrandon> yea if its not new, post a debdiff on the LP bug it fixes and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<imbrandon> theCore, ^
<imbrandon> moins all
<theCore> and what if it does not just fix the bug
<theCore> I cleaned up the whole debian/rules file
<imbrandon> well its got to fix /something/ otherwise it wouldent be needed heh, so make a bug of the problem you fixed and attach it
<imbrandon> only cleaned up the debian/rules ?
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<imbrandon> theCore, is the package in debian ?
<theCore> I think I will adopt the package
<theCore> it haven't been updated since 2005
<ajmitch> is it orphaned in debian?
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<theCore> imbrandon, I made the package conform with the latest debian-policy, corrected the python extension problem, and made the rules file more readable
<ajmitch> hello imbrandon
<theCore> ajmitch, I don't think so
<imbrandon> theCore, ahh well thats a bit more than "cleaned up the rules" heh
<theCore> ajmitch, I used debian version as a reference for fixing the bug
<ajmitch> so you plan to fork the packaging from what debian has?
<theCore> imbrandon, I'm not done yet, though
<theCore> imbrandon, I still have to correct debian/*.{dirs,files}
<imbrandon> theCore, ok i'm missing something here, its not orphaned in debian but your changing it from debian ?
<theCore> imbrandon, it's orphaned in Ubuntu
<theCore> the package is libming
<ajmitch> I see
<imbrandon> theCore, there is no sense of orphaning in Ubuntu, we all maintain all packages as a group, and if its maintained in debian it cant be orphaned as we sync from them
<ajmitch> theCore: have you looked at the 'ming' source package in debian?
<theCore> there also errors in the Debian version
<theCore> ajmitch, yea
<theCore> *yes
<ajmitch> we strongly discourage people from doing random forks of debian packaging
<imbrandon> theCore, great , this is one of the times then you make a patch and send it upstream to the debian maintainer
<ajmitch> it duplicates work & causes friction
<imbrandon> yea what ajmitch said
<theCore> imbrandon, that's what I want to
<ajmitch> theCore: you said it hasn't been updated for a year - ming was last updated about 8 weeks ago in debian
<theCore> ajmitch, do you know why it haven't been sync'ed?
<ajmitch> because we have upstream version freeze early in the edgy cycle which applies across the whole distro for stopping of autosyncs
<ajmitch> hence anything from the main UVF until universe freeze had to be manually synced
<theCore> ajmitch, well, it been a year, that's before edgy started...
<imbrandon> he just said it was updated 8 weeks ago
<imbrandon> thats not
<joejaxx> ajmitch: man i hope i have no missed the feature freeze
<joejaxx> not*
<imbrandon> joejaxx, yea by quite a bit
<ajmitch> joejaxx: oh we're well past feature freeze for edgy
<imbrandon> the release schedule is in the topic bro
<joejaxx> oh nevermind
<joejaxx> universe has nothing to do with the feature freeze
<ajmitch> no, but we have universe freeze as of a week ago
<imbrandon> yea but universe freeze is here too
<theCore> the other problem is that Debian changed the name of the package
<theCore> in Debian, libming is called just ming
<joejaxx> imbrandon: so i should be compiling for edgy+1?
<imbrandon> joejaxx, yea but edgy+1 is edgy atm
<imbrandon> same toolchain
<joejaxx> i guess i waited to long
<theCore> that is back to oct. 15 2005
<theCore> that's probably why it haven't been sync'ed
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i guess i am going to have to keep fluxbuntu-* in the fluxbuntu repos until edgy+1
<theCore> ajmitch, does auto-sync handle name changes?
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<imbrandon> theCore, what 2 packages are you talking about
<imbrandon> gnight bddebian
<joejaxx> goodnight bddebian
<theCore> imbrandon, libming
<theCore> imbrandon, in Debian, it's `ming'
<theCore> since the name change, it haven't been updated
<ajmitch> theCore: again, the name change was after the syncs stopped
<imbrandon> [2006-07-05]  Accepted 1:0.3.0-6 in unstable (low) (Stuart R. Anderson)
<imbrandon> thats AFTER the syncs stoped
<imbrandon> it will go next sync round
<ajmitch> probably only just aftre
<theCore> so, what should I do?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: may i pm you?
<imbrandon> joejaxx, i dont mind
<imbrandon> theCore, file a sync request and have a MOTU ack it or wait till auto syncing starts again
<theCore> is there a place that explains how to do that?
<imbrandon> theCore, last url in the topic
<theCore> imbrandon, thanks
<ajmitch> nice
<ajmitch> autopkgtest in the NEW queue
<ajmitch> seems that iwj has some xen/lvm magic going for it
<theCore> does posix regex is allowed in debian/*.files
<theCore> ok, I think I will send the patch to upstream, then request a sync
<theCore> but for now, I need to sleep
<theCore> cya all
<LaserJock> hmm, I really need learn how to blog  :/
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ?
<LaserJock> they're really long and boring
<ajmitch> nah, they're not boring
<ajmitch> put it on planet already
<ajmitch> oh good, it is :)
<imbrandon> yea ajmitch where is yours , finaly got LaserJock on it;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'm too boring to blog
<LaserJock> bah
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> you're not boring at all
<ajmitch> I have nothing to blog about, at least :)
<LaserJock> hmm, I think I've often got too much to blog about
<LaserJock> I have to watch it
<LaserJock> especially after the whole gallium thing
<LaserJock> people actually take these planet posts seriously
<imbrandon> gallium ?
<ajmitch> another reason why I avoid blogging
<imbrandon> did you read the last post from ian basicly saying joey was full of sh*t
<ajmitch> hm, good post by SynRG about ichthux & ubuntu CE
<LaserJock> I thought so
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I saw that
<LaserJock> imbrandon: last weekend there was a little "incident" with Edubuntu and KDE-Edu over a little project a few of us were working on
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no, I didn't see it
<imbrandon> ajmitch, its still on p.d.o i think
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ahh
<LaserJock> it was rather intense there for a couple days
<ajmitch> imbrandon: ian murdock?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
* ajmitch refuses to comment on that whole mess :)
<LaserJock> isn't he the guy who started Debian? or am I thinking of somebody else
<imbrandon> ajmitch, http://ianmurdock.com/?p=358
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea is is the deb"ian" in debian
<imbrandon> his better half is debbie , e.g the "deb"ian ;)
<LaserJock> right, that's what I thought
<LaserJock> what does he do these days on Debian?
<imbrandon> he works on LSB alot iirc
<imbrandon> just like any other maintainer afaik
* ajmitch gets bored & changes his desktop background
<imbrandon> heh
<joejaxx> yipee fluxbuntu was mentioned on planet.ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/img_0110.jpg
<ajmitch> small photo
<joejaxx> for not keeping up with ubuntu development haha
<LaserJock> where? I didn't see anybody say that :-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: look at the first blog
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> joejaxx: you mean that shady jordan mantha person?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: LaserJock == Jordan Mantha
<imbrandon> joejaxx, that IS LaserJock
<imbrandon> heh
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :)
<ajmitch> still shady :)
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that's a rather nice view
<joejaxx> i wish we could keep up with ubuntu development
<joejaxx> :\
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's the view from my bedroom
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> I didn't say you were not keeping up
<ajmitch> those 'large buildings' are the centre of the city
<LaserJock> very nice
<ajmitch> you can just make out the harbour on the left, and the pacific ocean beyond
<joejaxx> LaserJock: well i am going to be making the seeds so that fluxbuntu-meta can pull from them tomorrow
<LaserJock> excellent
<LaserJock> good progress
<joejaxx> thanks
<imbrandon> cool pic ajmitch
<joejaxx> ajmitch: yeah that looks nice
* imbrandon 's walpaper is /almost/ porn 
<ajmitch> cheap but effective digital camera
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> dodgy
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> hmm, I have stock artwork :-)
<LaserJock> I usually never have an install around long enough to care about the background
<imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss108.png
<LaserJock> argg
<imbrandon> thats a good one ;)
<LaserJock> darn this european date format
<LaserJock> I thought something was dated July 10th
<LaserJock> I don't know how that came about but it's really odd to me
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> "I know, lets transpose the month and the year!" I bet it was some trick to confuse the stupid Americans ;-)
<LaserJock> s/year/day/
<LaserJock> see, now I'm all confused
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> just got an f-spot bug in debian for a rather outdated version
* ajmitch needs to get 0.2.1 into testing
<LaserJock> you maintain f-spot in debian?
<LaserJock> I think I'd like being a DD if it didn't take so long to go through the NM process
<StevenK> LaserJock: ajmitch is just glutton for punishment.
<ajmitch> StevenK: same goes for you :P
<LaserJock> I like how you get to know a package, and it's more about packaging and less about the next freeze
<imbrandon> LaserJock, exactly
* StevenK thinks he prefers the Debian of a few years ago, where every second sentence wasn't "Ubuntu sucks"
<ajmitch> since with 2-3 years between releases, who needs to freeze?
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> If you can avoid the politics I think Debian is a rather nice place to be
<ajmitch> it's somewhat depressing seeing what happens in debian at times
<StevenK> ajmitch: Agreed.
<TheMuso> I'd apply for DD too if it didn't take as long
* StevenK didn't take too long to become a DD. :-P
<LaserJock> how long?
<imbrandon> haha StevenK but we all not demi gods
<StevenK> LaserJock: A week from applying to getting my account.
<imbrandon> StevenK, got it in what 5 days ?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Hooooow?
<joejaxx> StevenK: lol
<StevenK> TheMuso: Just lucky, I guess.
<ajmitch> nowadays you'd be lucky to get it under a year
<StevenK> TheMuso: It was a combination of a lot of factors - I can list them if you like.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Nah its fine.
<StevenK> TheMuso: It's quicker to explain in person, remind me next time I see you.
<TheMuso> um ok
<LaserJock> I've never hear of doing it that fast
* imbrandon is content working on ubuntu and letting debian worry about the changes, i'll present them to sponsors , if they take them cool, if not , their loss , but i'm not jumping through hoops
<StevenK> What I hate is how Ubuntu has to change to suit Debian.
<LaserJock> I'd rather make changes in Debian in the first place and not have to worry about it again in Ubuntu
<ajmitch> TheMuso: it involves money & beer
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Ideally that would be great.
<StevenK> ajmitch: It does not.
<chillywilly> mmmm, beeer
<ajmitch> StevenK: close enough
* StevenK ponders working on a bug or two instead of hacking on ASP like he should be.
* ajmitch is actually trying to get some bug stuff done
<ajmitch> that's why 2 monitors are useful
<ajmitch> I can keep the distraction of IRC on one
* LaserJock is going to bed
<ajmitch> night LaserJock
<imbrandon> gnight LaserJock
<chillywilly> night
<TheMuso> Night LaserJock.
<StevenK> Launchpad needs a "Repeat the current search" button.
<LaserJock> I've done enough damage on planet for one night ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: time to duck the flames?
<TheMuso> StevenK: I don't blame you for avoiding asp.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I doubt flames. I'm thinking more "What the heck is he saying?"
<StevenK> TheMuso: Heh. It's for a uni assignment, so I really ought to do it.
<joejaxx> goodnight Laser_away :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i am going to try and start releasing developmental releases in sync with the ubuntu ones
<joejaxx> imbrandon: is there a way to know when the ubuntu developmental releases will be released?
<ajmitch> joejaxx: it's in the topic
<imbrandon> first url in the topic joejaxx
<ajmitch> EdgyReleaseSchedule
<joejaxx> no not that
<joejaxx> i mean future wise :)
<joejaxx> that has a list of the current ones
<imbrandon> other than that just hang out and learn the way, the next release schedule will be worked out dirring UDS Moutain View
<ajmitch> generally every 6 months
<joejaxx> ajmitch: imbrandon i mean the developmental releaases
<joejaxx> like knots
<joejaxx> or flights like there were in dapper
<ajmitch> that will be worked out in the future
<imbrandon> those are on the release schedule, but thats worked out in UDS
<joejaxx> so there is no way to know when edgy beta 2 is coming so i can prepare to release in sync?
<ajmitch> there won't be a beta 2
<imbrandon> there is no beta 2, but RC is on the schedule for the 19th
<joejaxx> imbrandon: ok that is what i meant
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> so that is a week and a half
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> bbl
* imbrandon yawns
<imbrandon> hrm i wonder how hard it would be to make a ubuntu seed and livefs from scratch the "ubuntu way"
<imbrandon> somehow i dont think there is doc's about it online
<TheMuso> imbrandon: What do you want to do?
<imbrandon> TheMuso, just learn how to make a proper deritive ( not just customize a already made cd )
<imbrandon> no real "goal"
<TheMuso> Fair enough.
<TheMuso> It would be nice to know.
<imbrandon> yea, at leaste the process behind it all
* imbrandon starts digging a little
<LaserJock> imbrandon: what do you want to know?
<LaserJock> and how "from scratch" do you want to go?
<imbrandon> from bootstraping the base install on up
<imbrandon> but anystart would be good
<LaserJock> hmm, well from scratch you can as Kamion for some scripts they use
<LaserJock> the ones I've been involved with started with an existing .iso and then changed it from within
<imbrandon> yea i planned to once i got a little more edgucated about it so i dident goto him and say "duh duh can you .,.,. blah blah blah"
<nixternal> people are alive this late at night?
<LaserJock> as you already have the casper stuff
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea i have customized the iso before
<LaserJock> well, there is customized as in change some artwork
<nixternal> ya, and he wanted me to go buy a dvd burner so i could try his iso out
<LaserJock> and then there is customized like we do with Ichthux
<imbrandon> no as in removed oo.o , all the default settings, more packages etc
<imbrandon> i did a imbrandon version of kubuntu with no oo.o and koffice instead with all the meadia codecs etc
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> plus new artwork ;)
<LaserJock> in Icthux we have -deskto, -docs, -default-settings
<nixternal> and he tried to burn it to LP
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea but how do you then generate the isos
<imbrandon> from those
<LaserJock> ok, the basic idea is:
<LaserJock> get the .iso
<LaserJock> unpack it
<imbrandon> oh so the custom way
<LaserJock> chroot into the unpacked squashfs
<imbrandon> not the ubuntu way
<imbrandon> right , yea thats how i did it
<LaserJock> well, sort of
<LaserJock> it's somewhat in between
<imbrandon> ahh
<LaserJock> we then change the initrd
<LaserJock> the scripts that set up the livecd user
<LaserJock> install -desktop, etc. meta packages
<LaserJock> in the future though I think we are going to the Ubuntu way
<imbrandon> right i'm with you so far
<LaserJock> it's more complicated
<imbrandon> ok yea i have done that ( the way your doing it now )
<LaserJock> but it's a little more satisfying
<imbrandon> hehe yea
<imbrandon> i'm at the same point
<LaserJock> I believe Kamion gave raphink a script
<LaserJock> for doing it the Ubuntu way
<LaserJock> but there is still quite a bit that uses the Ubuntu infrastructure
<imbrandon> cool
<ajmitch> the s3kr3t sauce
<LaserJock> so it's not easy to just "do it the Ubuntu way"
<ajmitch> kamion has stuff in his bzr branches for this
<LaserJock> as they use a fair amount of Soyuz magic I think
<ajmitch> debian-cd & related stuff
<LaserJock> apparently sometime "soon" Soyuz might start supporting derivatives
<imbrandon> do they use make-live ?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: 'soon' has been said for awhile now
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> well, it sounded like early 2007
<LaserJock> I think Ichthux might be a test derivative
<LaserJock> at least the LP guys were interested in that
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> well i wouldent mind helping out joejaxx get on his feet ( i dont think i could make a long term commitment to it ) but i dont want to put the time into customizing the iso , it seems to hackish to me
<imbrandon> thats one reason for me to learn BUT i would also just liek to "know"
<imbrandon> like*
<LaserJock> yeah, I know what you mean
<LaserJock> we get questions about .iso customization all the time
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to have a least some clue
<imbrandon> although i do know what you mean, i did do that for my own dapper kubuntu live cd
<imbrandon> as far as unpacking the squashfs , the initrd , the package changes etc etc
<TheMuso> Then there is the fun of casper.
<imbrandon> but thats not really a /good/ solution for repition as i'm sure your finding out with itc*
<imbrandon> ( sorry for got the name heh )
<LaserJock> actually, it isn't too bad
<LaserJock> we have a lot of it automated
<imbrandon> cool
<LaserJock> we have a standard initrd and a script that updates the manifest files
<imbrandon> nice
<LaserJock> you spend more time unpacking and packing
<imbrandon> yea , that takes a while
<LaserJock> and transferring the .iso to mirrors
<imbrandon> well not tooooo long but a good while
<imbrandon> mostly the repacking
<imbrandon> torrents ;)
<LaserJock> bah
<imbrandon> i thought about making the codec enhanced kubuntu avail via torrent
<imbrandon> since its kinda iffy in some places ;)
<imbrandon> brb
<LaserJock> bah, who needs codecs :-)
<LaserJock> people shouldn't be listening to music or watch movies anyway
<LaserJock> they should be fixing bugs and contributing packages to REVU
<ajmitch> or to Debian
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> although I do listen to music while packaging ;)
<TheMuso> I listen to music, but its from my own CDs in FLAC format.
<imbrandon> yea i dont think i could sit at the computer without tunes cranked
<imbrandon> about 70% is from my own cd's 10% from itunes , and the rest from "arround"
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> I have a lot of .mp3s ripped from CDs
<LaserJock> but I convert them to ogg if I play them in linux usually
<ajmitch> scary stuff - vista RC2 in vmware
<ajmitch> will my computer be powerful enough ? ;)
<LaserJock> yucky
<ajmitch> oh that's wonderful
<ajmitch> it doesn't have a driver for the vmware cd drive
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> somehow that seems interntional
<ajmitch> wouldn't surprise me in the least
<ajmitch> I don't really feel like installing it on a real system
<LaserJock> yeah, it's like these silly bootcamp people that got all excited when you could dual boot Windows and OS X
<imbrandon> i have rc1 on the computer upstairs dualbooting
<LaserJock> I couldn't belive you'd want to go down in OS quality ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: MS do have some useful ideas
<LaserJock> I guess, I just find things work a whole lot better in Ubuntu
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> I don't plan to use it for any real work
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> if I was more into different areas of computing I'm sure I could see more uses
<LaserJock> but mostly I want ssh, web browser, good printing, laptop support, and good music/video stuff
<LaserJock> all of which Ubuntu does much better
<LaserJock> my wife even seems to like it after I got here FF bookmarks back and the form completion set up
<LaserJock> *her
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> I wonder what the vista hardware requirements are
* StevenK notes LaserJock just said he was going to bed.
<LaserJock> I read about it a long time ago for longhorn
<LaserJock> yes, well
<LaserJock> I took my shower and the wife went to bed
<LaserJock> I'm supposed to be working
* LaserJock shuts up
<StevenK> IRC is work, isn't it?
<StevenK> Isn't it?!
<ajmitch> yes, StevenK, of course it is...
<StevenK> Heh
<LaserJock> have any of you used dak?
<ajmitch> not that brave
* StevenK has submitted one small patch
<LaserJock> do you see it as really very useful for the normal user/sys admin?
<LaserJock> it seems a bit overkill to me
<imbrandon> LaserJock, falcon is alot easier for normal every day repos ( less than 300 packages )
<LaserJock> falcon? I've not heard of that
<LaserJock> I've seen reprepo and mini-dinstall
<imbrandon> Seveas made it for his repos but me and a few others use it now, its really nice, handles mirrors auto etc etc etc
<StevenK> LaserJock: No. dak is .... hardcore
<StevenK> reprepro and mini-dinstall both suck, I've tried to use both of them.
<StevenK> We use apt-move at work, and that's a little archaic.
<LaserJock> StevenK: what do you suggest to people then?
<LaserJock> or do they all just suck ;-)
<StevenK> dpkg-scanpackages
<imbrandon> falcon you just make your /pool and run falcon update sync, all done
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: is that publically available?
<Lathiat> apt-cache show falcon
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea check any of Seveas's mirros ( http://seveas.imbrandon.com ) in the extras component , or in edgy+1 universe hehe
<imbrandon> mirrors*
<LaserJock> hmm
<imbrandon> http://seveas.imbrandon.com/pool/dapper-seveas/extras/falcon_1.5.4-0ubuntu1_all.deb
<imbrandon> supports multi arch,multi components ( even one for each app if you want )
<imbrandon> etc etc etc, and a good doc
<imbrandon> to get ya going, but it takes a whole 5 minutes to setup
<imbrandon> real simple to setup and maintain ( and its python heh )
<imbrandon> and if you find bugs its easy to poke seveas to fix it hehe
<imbrandon> LaserJock, have you seen http://live.debian.net/wiki/ISO_Howto
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<imbrandon> hrm and it links to http://live.debian.net/wiki/live-package telling howto do the casper and all
<ajmitch> ok, I think I've got the cdrom driver needed - apparantly it's partly a vmware problem
<ajmitch> :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> we'll see if I can use it ;)
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<LaserJock> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> heya ajmitch
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
<Hobbsee> LaserJock!
<siretart> morning
<Hobbsee> hi siretart
<imbrandon> moins siretart
<siretart> huhu Hobbsee, hi imbrandon. heyho ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> hey siretart, how are you?
<siretart> thanks, fine
<siretart> and you
<siretart> currently doing my email
<siretart> ajmitch: we still need 2 UVF members agreeing for requests, no?
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso
<TheMuso> How goes it?
<Hobbsee> it goes to work soon :(
<TheMuso> Ah that sucks.
<siretart> does Martin Juergens irc? do anyone know him?
<ajmitch> siretart: yes, we need 2 approvals afaik
* ajmitch hasn't looked at them for a few hours
<siretart> I was a bit puzzled if we require 2 advocates for complete new packages from marillat as well
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> probably yes
<siretart> I assume so. and this martin juergens has filed quite some request for such packages
<ajmitch> gtk2-formfactory, etc?
<siretart> yepp
<siretart> + anyevent + eventrpc
<ajmitch> right, I saw them on my wade through unmet deps
<StevenK> ajmitch: Where's your list of unmetdeps?
<LaserJock> in his vast brain
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> Probably stored in a text file in his tmpfs
<highvoltage> hi. it /opt/ltsp could be placed somewhere else, with FHS in mind, where would you put it? /usr/share/ltsp?
<highvoltage> s/FHS/FSH
<LaserJock> hmm, I might actually go with /var perhaps
<highvoltage> as in, /var/lib/ltsp?
<LaserJock> maybe just /var/ltsp
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/unmet/unmet.txt
<ajmitch> it hasn't been updated today
<LaserJock> the thing with ltsp is that it changes, right?
<ajmitch> & wsa annotated with a few comments
<highvoltage> LaserJock: usually, with Ubuntu, the LTSP chroot is build from scratch at installation
<highvoltage> LaserJock: but for tuXlabs I want to make a prebuild chroot and put it into a package
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I think once the chroot exists it won't change much
<LaserJock> if it's static it could go in /usr/share I suppose
<highvoltage> a user might chroot into the environment and add/remove stuff though
<LaserJock> that's not so good for /usr/share/
<LaserJock> or a package for that matter
<Yagisan> highvoltage, from experience users do chroot in to change things
<LaserJock> dpkg likes to keep track of files
* highvoltage ponders a bit
<Yagisan> highvoltage, considering it could even be a differnet distro - perhaps /opt really is the best place for it
<highvoltage> /opt is nice because then it is also consistent with upstrem ltsp
<highvoltage> but I remember ogra once saying that's it's not the ideal place to have it
<StevenK> Policy forbids packages to touch /opt.
<highvoltage> he mentioned where it would have been if we had a choice but I've forgotten :)
<highvoltage> yes, I did that previously and lintian gave lots and lots of warnings for each file :)
<Yagisan> StevenK, policy doesn't consider a package might install a distro - which is what ltsp does
<StevenK> Of course not, there's no precedent for it
<Yagisan> there is now ...
<StevenK> Then bugs against Policy should be filed
<highvoltage> what if I put a tarball in the package, and the postinst would extract it?
<highvoltage> that's a terrible hack, isn't it?
<Yagisan> highvoltage, it is. your ltsp - is it Ubuntu based ? if so - perhaps script it to download and install in the postinst ?
<LaserJock> where will the tarball extract to?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I guess that could safely extract to /opt?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> are you packaging it to avoid bandwith usage, i.e. computers without internet or bad internet connections?
<highvoltage> that, and to save installation time
<highvoltage> builting the ltsp chroot is quite time consuming atm
<highvoltage> I'd also like a nice and quick way for users to add ltsp, and remove it again
<highvoltage> well, more for our technicians in the end than the end-users, I suppose
<Yagisan> highvoltage, takes about 5-10 minutes to build the ltsp chroot here (all packages are in the cache so doesn't include download time)
<highvoltage> can you currently build a chroot from the live cd install too?
<highvoltage> extracting the tarball only takes about 2 minutes here :)
<highvoltage> I think I'll take the approach of using a tarball, extracting to /opt, and when upgrading LTSP, the old /opt/ltsp will just be removed before a new tarball is extracted there.
<highvoltage> or not... sorry, I think I'll think about it and ask around some more :)
<highvoltage> Yagisan, LaserJock, StevenK: thanks for your input and insight
<LaserJock> so you wipe out people's existing chroot upon upgrade?
<LaserJock> it's not a simple problem that's for sure
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that's what I thought about just after pressing enter after I mentioned that
<highvoltage> the best way really seems to be how ubuntu currently does it, but this will be a problem that red hat, suse, etc will have to deal with too while they use the ubuntu ltsp chroot, until they have their own meukow sorted out.
<highvoltage> I don't expect our users to /really/ change the chroot
<highvoltage> those who add packages could perhaps do a --get-selections and do a dselect-upgrade in the new chroot
<highvoltage> I'm sure ogra will also have some useful insight :)
<LaserJock> yes
<ajmitch> \sh_away: wine UVF approved, you going to do the update?
<tepsipakki> ajmitch: libpam-{heimdal,krb5}_2.4-1 is now in sid ;)
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> update the bug reports, reject the sync request if it hasn't gone through
<tepsipakki> ie. make a new UVF-request?
<ajmitch> you'd need to
<tepsipakki> okay
<ktinga> Ey?
<ktinga> Hellor?
<sladen> liatm: yup!
<sivang> ajmitch: you're recent changes to libburn now made it usable? :)
<sivang> ajmitch: (been just reading teh changlog)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<matid> Hello. Any MIT student here?
* Yagisan waves G'day
<bddebian> Heya Yagisan
<Yagisan> bddebian, how have you been ?
<bddebian> OK thx, you?
<Yagisan> not too bad. had some interesting experiences
<Yagisan> right now I'm researching how to convert my package from a single binary into a multiple binary
<StevenK> Add more stanzas to debian/control and brutally hack debian/rules
<tseng> dh_install woo
<Yagisan> cool thanks. should be easier then it was shoving my CFLAGS down Cmakes throat when I updated earlier today
<Yagisan> do we have a policy on plugin names ? libXYZ or baseapp-XYZ ?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> its very strict, look it up
<Yagisan> I'm looking. probably in the wrong place, but I'll find it.
<tseng> http://dancer.debian.net/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<tseng> enjoy
<Yagisan> tseng, thank you. I was indeed not looking at the right file
<jekil> hi
<Yagisan> tseng, thanks. looks like I have a bit to digest to see how to best apply that. O_o
<tseng> yes.
<tseng> its serious business
<Yagisan> tseng, I do know that nothing else will use the plugins, so that at least makes it easier for me
<Yagisan> tseng, none of the plugins have a SONAME version. Will that be a problem ?
<tseng> Yagisan: possibly
<tseng> if yo uwant to treat them as libraries
<tseng> if they are plugins to a single app, I guess it doesnt matter
<Yagisan> tseng, they are for a single application (no one yet has taken the challenge of writing another engine for them). Thanks for your advice.
<tseng> i wouldnt package them as libraries if they are not
<tseng> i would package them as things that happen to be shared objects
<tseng> yeah?
<Yagisan> yeah - that looks best for now
<Toadstool> good morning everybody
<crimsun> 'morning Toadstool
<joejaxx> goodmorning Toadstool
<joejaxx> hey crimsun
<crimsun> hi joejaxx
<Toadstool> hey crimsun, joejaxx
<joejaxx> you know what i found out?
<joejaxx> the debian way of packaging is not necessarily easy
<joejaxx> but i realy like it
<joejaxx> really*
<joejaxx> doing everything manually
<joejaxx> instead of having a script do it
<superm1> joejaxx, there is a limited about of automation you can get for your packaging via debhelper or cdbs
<superm1> if you haven't read the ubuntu packaging guide, you should take a look
<joejaxx> superm1: i do not want the automation
<superm1> well debhelper just helps to build a skeleton
<superm1> for the packaging
<superm1> its a good start
<joejaxx> i am happy with the debian new maintainer's method :)
<Laser_away> they use debhelper I believe
<superm1> Hi LaserJock
<joejaxx> i do not remember ever running that command
<joejaxx> :\
<superm1> moot point then if that was the case
<LaserJock> what command?
<LaserJock> dh_make?
<kristog> yes the new maintainer  guide uses debhelper
<joejaxx> it does?
<LaserJock> yes
<joejaxx> interesting
<LaserJock> you really do want to use debhelper at least
<kristog> http://www.us.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.it.html#s-rules
<LaserJock> otherwise you are making too much work for yourself
<kristog> joejaxx, http://www.us.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-rules
<joejaxx> kristog: ahh ok
<joejaxx> pbuilder?
<kristog> pbuilder is another tool
* joejaxx is looking at the ubuntu packaging page
<joejaxx> kristog: that is not on the DNMG is it?
<kristog> LaserJock, the ubuntu pkg differs to the debian guide?
<kristog> what you mean with DNMG?
<joejaxx> Debian New Maintainers Guide
<kristog> yes it is
<superm1> it has a few ubuntu specific things in it
<LaserJock> kristog: no, I wrote an Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<superm1> and explains how to use revu
<superm1> oh LaserJock you wrote it?  Didn't realize that.  props, great guide
<kristog> LaserJock, cool :) url?
<JohnnyMast> whats the revu site again ?
<kristog> (i don't see it in the topic)(sorry)
<LaserJock> well, I had help and pulled from many sources
<LaserJock> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<LaserJock> !REVU
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<LaserJock> hmm
<JohnnyMast> thaks laser :_
<LaserJock> that should also point to revu.tauware.de
<joejaxx> ahh it ok
<joejaxx> is*
<joejaxx> -ok
<LaserJock> the packaging guide is also shipped with Dapper and Edgy in the help system
<LaserJock> for the occasions you aren't online ;-)
<lupine_85> are there any plans to package IceWeasel?
<lupine_85> http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/
<imbrandon> YESS !! new hdd just showed up, no more laptop only for me !!!
<ryanakca> lol
<gnomefreak> hey guys im using cdbs and during the dbuild im getting secret key not available but the key and all files are in ~/.gnupg
<gnomefreak> how can i get it to sign the package
<gnomefreak> im assuming importing my key again wont work
<crimsun> are you using seahorse?
<gnomefreak> no
<gnomefreak> i dont think i installed it
<gnomefreak> it is installed
<gnomefreak> is this a bad thing?
<crimsun> "this" being...?
<kristog> no
<kristog> gnomefreak, i use seahorse
<gnomefreak> seahorse
<kristog> use it :)
<gnomefreak> debuild -S -sa  how do i use it with that command
<gnomefreak> lol
<kristog> you don't have to use it directly
<gnomefreak> http://gnomefreak.pastebin.com//802055 is the full eror
<gnomefreak> error
<ajmitch> morning
<kristog> morning ajmitch
<Adri2000> there is no archive admin here? :/
<tseng> its a weekend
<tseng> no.
<Snake[Away] > Hey guys, if anyone has a moment, could you tell me, should I start building on Edgy or Dapper? I havn't built anything before, and i'm following this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch -- Good or bad?
<Snake[Away] > or is there a better
<Snake[Away] > Because it seems that one is a bit dated (horay)
<Snake[Away] > hoary*
<crimsun> Build on Dapper if your target is Dapper. Build on Edgy if your target is Edgy.
<crimsun> where "build on foo" means "use a foo pbuilder"
<Snake[Away] > Oh so I dont need to install the diffrent OSes or whatever?
<Snake[Away] > I can build for edgy on dapper?
<crimsun> certainly.
<Snake[Away] > great
<Snake[Away] > is it more difficult? heh
<crimsun> pbuilder? It's a cinch.
<ajmitch> it'll be harder to test afterwards though
<ajmitch> hello crimsun
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<crimsun> hi ajmitch
<Snake[Away] > Ah good point ajmitch ..
<crimsun> not bad, yourself?
<ajmitch> alright
<Snake[Away] > Im sure I can find someone on edgy that can test though
<BazziR> Snake: what sort of software are you building?
<Snake> crimsun: do you have a more updated guide than the one I linked to? (I assume times have changed?)
<Snake> BazziR: Not sure ye
<Snake> t
<crimsun> Snake: the packaging guide on help.ubuntu.com?
<Snake> Just a few practice packages and whatnot
<Snake> crimsun: well the one I linked to was on the wiki, but like I said, its dated from hoary
<Snake> Ohhhh
<Q-FUNK> Snake: the methodology remains the same regardless of which release you make your packages for.
<Snake> Okay :)
<BazziR> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html <- I think that#s the most recent/comlete guide
<Snake> This is what I was lookin for: https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html :)
<Snake> BazziR: thanks hehe
<BazziR> :o
<Snake> is the KDE/Gnome building the same way?
<BazziR> you mean having those as dependencies?
<BazziR> or using them as desktops generally?
<Snake> No I mean I don't have to have a diffrent program or somethign to build for KDE
<Snake> then ahve a diffrent program to build for gnome
<Snake> right?
<BazziR> no it's all console-based
<Q-FUNK> he means if there's any extra work involved in building GUI apps.
<Snake> For the people to run on their systems
<BazziR> ah :)
<Snake> Im assume I just need the libs?
<BazziR> Snake: you just have to specify what libs are required and they will be downloaded and installed automatically when needed (if I understand you correctly)
* Snake mumbles ubuntu needs a net installer while he downloads the iso
<Snake> Bazzi: Basically
<Snake> HEh
<Q-FUNK> Snake: packaging desktop software, or perl or python modules, requires paying attention to a few more things than when pacaking simple commandline tools.
<crimsun> Snake: psst, netboot.
<Snake> crimsun: where! lol
<crimsun> dapper? edgy?
<Snake> Q-FUNK: is it much more difficult than building the packages?
<Snake> crimsun: Dapper *.1 if possible?
<Snake> Q-FUNK: building the source** (Sorry)
<crimsun> which arch?
<Snake> crimsun: gnome
<crimsun> no, I mean i386, x86_64, ppc, sparc, ...
<Snake> Oh my bad
<crimsun> although having a gnome "arch" would be ...
<Snake> x386
<Snake> :-P
<Snake> grrr
<Snake> i386
* Snake is having a long day
<crimsun> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
<Snake> wow thanks crimsun
<Snake> I never knew about that
<Snake> " lintian and linda
<Snake>     dissect Debian packages and report bugs and Policy violations. They contain automated checks for many aspects of Debian Policy as well as for common errors.
<Snake> "
<Snake> What do they mean policy violations?
<Adri2000> the debian and ubuntu policies about packaging
<Snake> Which include?
<Toadstool> Snake: http://www.us.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
<Snake> ahhh
<Snake> crimsun: uhh if it says it cant retrive a package....should I hit continue or go back
<Snake> they both sound bad
<crimsun> which package is it failing on? (switch to another console to see)
<Snake> a whole bunch
<Snake> I keep getting it over and over
<Snake> and now the install failed
<lupine_85> is this installing edgy?
<Snake> dapper
<lupine_85> hmm
<crimsun> if the netboot image is outdated, that'll happen
<Snake> I just got the one you linked me to
<crimsun> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper-updates/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/   looks more current.
<Snake> oh ok
<Toadstool> hmm, looks like bug 63718 is a libsexy bug instead of a xchat one...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63718 in xchat "xchat spellcheck bad interperatation" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63718
<Snake> woah...
<Snake> bug 63718
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63718 in xchat "xchat spellcheck bad interperatation" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63718
<Snake> awesome
<Toadstool> :)
<Snake> I thought Ubugtu was just a joke and fun bot :)
<imbrandon> woot buildbox it almost 100% back to its former self, just a fwe more things to tweak out
<cvacubo> Good evening. I need help. I want to help Kubuntu Community and I create Lila icons deb package. But I don't know what i need to do for that package upload to repository for testing. Maybe you can help me with that ?
<crimsun> imbrandon will be more than willing to show you!
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> cvacubo, you have already made the package ?
<cvacubo> imbrandon, yes.
<imbrandon> cvacubo, have you ever used REVU ? or know about it? ( if not i can explain it ) but that would be the first step after the package is made
<cvacubo> But I don't know what I need to do ? I need to upload that package to REVU ?
<imbrandon> if its new to ubuntu
<imbrandon> cvacubo, yes REVU would be the next step
<cvacubo> I read about REVU, but I don't understand, I need dput my package and thats all ???
<cvacubo> Or what ?
<imbrandon> well first you have to join the LP team
<imbrandon> have you done that ?
<cvacubo> Yes, this package new for Ubuntu. This package suggested in Kubuntu.org
<imbrandon> ok add your self to this team http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy
<cvacubo> LP Team? This is a Launchpad ?
<imbrandon> yes
<imbrandon> once you are on that team then you/me/we can ping a REVU admin to sync the keyring, then you can dput to REVU
<imbrandon> for a MOTU to review it and upload
<Toadstool> cvacubo: you will need a GPG key too
<cvacubo> imbrandon, one moment please. I want check my Launchpad login...
<imbrandon> cvacubo, yes i dident look at your LP page but if you dont have a GPG key you will need to create one and upload that to your LP profile
<imbrandon> first
<cvacubo> imbrandon, I have GPG key and send this key to Launchpad. And I joined to "Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe"
<cvacubo> Yes I uploaded in my LP profile and signed Code of conduct
<imbrandon> ok good
<cvacubo> My LP login Artem Abramyan. Nickname Cvacubo
<imbrandon> now we need to ask a REVU admin to sync the keyring, aj^mitch is probably not arround right now but siretart might be
<imbrandon> siretart, ping
<imbrandon> ( if not i'll look on the list to see whom else is a REVU admin )
<cvacubo> siretart, ping ??? What is this ? Sorry, my english is so bad
<crimsun> (to note raphink, gauvain, and sispoty are also admins)
<crimsun> (and mez, too)
<imbrandon> cvacubo, it means i'm trying to get his attentian
<imbrandon> attention*
<Toadstool> gauvin is a REVU admin? I didn't know that, good news :p
<Toadstool> *gauvain even
<imbrandon> i have a tiber login but i have no idea how to sync the keyring heh
<crimsun> Toadstool: yep
<cvacubo> After sync the keyring I need to dput my package ?
<imbrandon> cvacubo, yup
<cvacubo> imbrandon, thanks a lot.
<imbrandon> then it will be on the list for all MOTU's to revu and give you input or possibly upload
<imbrandon> ( note the universe is in a freeze right now but its still good to go though the processes and get it ready )
<cvacubo> Now I need find REVU admins and ask for sync keyring ?
<imbrandon> cvacubo, yes , all have been "pinged" e.g. their name hilighted so next chance one of them gets it will be done
<imbrandon> best to just wait arround and chat/learn/idle/etc , its just waiting now
<cvacubo> imbrandon, ok, thanks a lot for help... thanks
<imbrandon> np, i'm gonna go back to finishing up my install if you need something just say my name , my IRC lcient beeps at me so if i'm on the computer i'll answer ;)
<imbrandon> if not there are lots of helpfull folks in here
<imbrandon> s/lcient/client
<crimsun> just set up a script to flood his irc nick every two minutes.
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> actualy my client uses "/usr/share/sounds/KDE_Beep_Ahem.wav" ( probably only present if you have KDE installed )
<imbrandon> heh
<siretart> cvacubo: imbrandon. huh?
<crimsun> they need a keyring sync for revu
<imbrandon> siretart, can you please sync the REVU keyring so cvacubo can have upload rights
<siretart> oh, sure. just triggered a sync
<imbrandon> thanks
<siretart> cvacubo: done, you should be able to upload now
<pianoboy3333> Are you guys gonna make packages for firefox rc2 and gaim2.0.0 b4?
<pianoboy3333> for edgy?
<crimsun> pianoboy3333: no, because those are main packages.
<crimsun> they have nothing to do with universe.
<pianoboy3333> oh
<pianoboy3333> crimsun: do you think that the ubuntu guys are gonna package them?
<crimsun> I don't know.
<pianoboy3333> kk....
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-08
<gnomefreak> what is xrayswarm?
<gnomefreak> apt-cache show doesnt have it
<gnomefreak> it keeps crashing
<joejaxx> Toadstool: are you around?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: are you there?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: ! :)))
<joejaxx> :) *
<Hobbsee> hey joejaxx
<joejaxx> hello
<joejaxx> do you know about the update script in the ubuntu-meta package?
<Hobbsee> no
<joejaxx> oh ok
<Hobbsee> i run kubuntu, not ubuntu
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: well do you know about seeds then?
<joejaxx> the seed lists that is
<joejaxx> is anyone around?
<crimsun> it's the weekend; I wouldn't expect people to be particularly active, either.
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> crimsun: well do you know about the seed lists?
<crimsun> beyond what's in the packaging infrastructure? no.
<crimsun> try to catch ogra or janimo later in the week
<joejaxx> crimsun: well i just wanted to know why some packages are in parenthesis
<joejaxx> because when i run the update script in the ubuntu-meta
<joejaxx> those come up as Unknown desktop packages
<joejaxx> like (bluez-utils)
<lophyte> hey all
<joejaxx> hello lophyte :)
<lophyte> heya :)
<lophyte> argh.. I was trying to install dapper on an old imac i was given.. but its frozen at 48%
<lophyte> ...or not
<lophyte> nevermind, lol
<joejaxx> lol
<lophyte> i've never played with a mac before
<joejaxx> :)
<lophyte> it was running OS 9.. so I said nevermind that and now I'm working on installing ubuntu, hehe
<joejaxx> i have two g3's running dapper
<joejaxx> lophyte: what are you up too
<joejaxx> i think crimsun you and i are the only ones in here
<lophyte> I just got ubuntu installed..
<lophyte> except it appears that it didn't install X or gnome
<ajmitch> afternoon
<joejaxx> hey it is ajmitch
<joejaxx> lophyte: why whould it not install those?
<lophyte> I don't know..
<joejaxx> :\
<ajmitch> because you installed from a server cd?
<lophyte> but when it booted, I'm at the command line
<joejaxx> ajmitch: do you know about the seed list?
<joejaxx> lophyte: interesting
<ajmitch> joejaxx: somewhat
<joejaxx> ajmitch: well i am building the fluxbuntu-* meta packages
<lophyte> and there's no sign of <x
<lophyte> X
<joejaxx> ajmitch: and i am making the fluxbuntu-meta one right now
<lophyte> no, I used the alternate cd
<ajmitch> lophyte: did you do a server install from the alternate cd?
<lophyte> I don't think so
<lophyte> but meh
<joejaxx> ajmitch: the problem is the ubuntu-meta packaage grabs the depends for the ubuntu-* packages from the seeds list
<lophyte> I'll just install ubuntu-desktop
<ajmitch> joejaxx: yes
<joejaxx> ajmitch: so i made my own seeds
<lophyte> except it won't eject the cd drive
<ajmitch> did you copy the existing seeds & modify them?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: but since i have not made the fluxbuntu-* packages it comes up with things like this
<joejaxx> ? Unknown desktop package: fluxbuntu-desktop
<joejaxx> ajmitch: yes i did here http://seeds.fluxbuntu.net/edgy/
<ajmitch> so if it's complaining about them, shouldn't you make those packages?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: the fluxbuntu-meta packages makes then when i compile it
<joejaxx> ajmitch: but inorder for those packages to build right with the dependencies it goes out to the seeds list to get them
<lophyte> k, installing ubuntu-desktop
<ajmitch> joejaxx: then try & remove it from the seeds list
<joejaxx> ajmitch: http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=168
<joejaxx> ajmitch: ok
* ajmitch hasn't done any custom seed stuff, so can't really help
<joejaxx> oh alright
<joejaxx> ajmitch: one other question i had is it is not recognizing packages that are on the real seeds like ? Unknown desktop package: (bluez-utils)
* ajmitch shrugs
<Toadstool> re
<joejaxx> Toadstool: !!
<joejaxx> :) :D
<Toadstool> uhuh
* Toadstool runs :)
<joejaxx> Toadstool: http://seeds.fluxbuntu.net/edgy/
<Toadstool> grat!
<Toadstool> great even
<joejaxx> Toadstool: one problem
<joejaxx> or two
<Toadstool> ah :)
<joejaxx> ? Unknown standard package: fluxbuntu-standard
<joejaxx> ? Unknown desktop package: hotkey-setup
<joejaxx> hotkey-setup is even in the original seedlist
<Toadstool> hmm, I have no idea of what those errors mean
<Toadstool> take a look at the source code of germinate :)
<joejaxx> ok
* Toadstool 's back from a 40 miles bike ride and is too exhausted to\\\\\
<joejaxx> :\
<Toadstool> huhu, I hate qwerty keyboards :p
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> Toadstool: do you atleast know why some packages on the seed lists are in parenthesis?
<ajmitch> they're recommends, not depends
<joejaxx> so i can take them out of the parenthesis?
<joejaxx> because the update script is stopping on most of them
<ajmitch> you may do what you want with them
<ajmitch> are you using edgy tools to work on these?
<joejaxx> i am on edgy
<joejaxx> that is why i am wondering why the update script cannot find these packages that are in the reops
<joejaxx> repos
<lophyte> this thing is sllooow..
<lophyte> 233MHz G3
<ajmitch> lophyte: hah
<ajmitch> not as slow as running windows vista in vmware
<lophyte> hahaha
<lophyte> not quite
<joejaxx> hahaa
<ajmitch> maybe vista needs more RAM.. :)
<joejaxx> oh wow
<joejaxx> i feel like any idiot
<joejaxx> :\
<joejaxx> ajmitch: some reason
<joejaxx> Amaranth: when i do sudo apt-get source ubuntu-meta on edgy
<joejaxx> it gets it from Need to get 19.3kB of source archives.
<joejaxx> Get:1 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com dapper-updates/main ubuntu-meta 0.120 (dsc) [558B] 
<joejaxx> Get:2 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com dapper-updates/main ubuntu-meta 0.120 (tar) [18.8kB] 
<joejaxx> ajmitch: *
<Toadstool> why sudo?! no need to be root to grab sources
<ajmitch> so you have the wrong deb-src lines in there
<joejaxx> no wonder it does not work
* joejaxx feels like an idiot
<joejaxx> it says dapper everywhere
<joejaxx> why is this?
<joejaxx> i installed this from a edgy beta disk
<joejaxx> it says edgy in some places in the source list
<joejaxx> and dapper in others
<joejaxx> bbl i have to fix this
<joejaxx> well time to reinstall edgy
<joejaxx> bbl
<theCore> anyone knows what happened with Firefox spell-checking?
<theCore> nevermind, I think I found the problem
<bddebian> Damnit, I'm having a brainfart, how do I get DEB_HOST_ARCH_OS, etc?
<theCore> I found it out, sorry the noise
<crimsun> bddebian: dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH_OS
<crimsun> $(shell ...) if you need it from debian/rules
<bddebian> dpkg-architecture.. damnit, I kept trying dpkg --print-architecture..
<bddebian> crimsun: thanks
<LaserJock> must be Saturday night
<bddebian> Well I guess it's technically Sunday morning here now :)
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> I've got a few more hours
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i am running the update script
<joejaxx> from the seeds
<theCore> yeah, Sunday morning started 20 min ago :)
<joejaxx> yeah
<theCore> I'm up for some late hacking
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> only 9:22 pm  here
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :)
<theCore> I'm trying to do a web interface for importing code and unit test it
<joejaxx> nice
<theCore> I can't figure out how to make it secure enough :/
<LaserJock> what does a unit test mean?
<theCore> check if the program output is the expected one
<bddebian> Gnight gents
<joejaxx> Goodnight bddebian
<TheMuso> It is well into Sunday afternoon here.
<theCore> chroot, minimal language implementation, checking cpu/mem usage, what do I forget? ...
<LaserJock> TheMuso: oh yeah, it still trips me up that you guys are *ahead*
<TheMuso> hehe
<LaserJock> theCore: so you give it something to chew on and compare it to an expected result?
<theCore> TheMuso, pacific/Hawaii ?
<theCore> LaserJock, yep
<TheMuso> theCore: Sydney, Australia.
<theCore> TheMuso, that's nice
<theCore> TheMuso, I would like to go to Australia someday
<LaserJock> except all the snakes and spiders and sharks
<LaserJock> I watch to many nature show to feel comfortable with going to Australia ;-)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Its not that bad.
<LaserJock> maybe NZ is better ;-)
<theCore> I think I will build up a minimal distro for this project
<theCore> with a dpkg/bzr/busybox/+{perl,python,ruby} tool set
<theCore> it would certainly ease the maintenance
<theCore> maybe I'm just doing too much for #ubuntu-trivia (my weekly quiz channel)
<theCore> anyway, it's quite fun, and have nothing else to do
<LaserJock> *cough* Packaging Guide *cough*
<theCore> hehe
<theCore> after
<theCore> I'm taking notes, right now
<theCore> LaserJock, talking about the PG, did saw the diff I sent?
<LaserJock> theCore: where did you send it?
<theCore> LaserJock, on the ML
<joejaxx> LaserJock: the seeds are working! :)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: \o/
<joejaxx> LaserJock: no problems whatsoever
<theCore> LaserJock, the subject line is: "[Patch]  Packaging with Debhelper"
<LaserJock> theCore: oh yes
<LaserJock> I was sort of waiting for the edgy branch to be created
<LaserJock> which happened today
<theCore> yeah
<theCore> I saw mdke email
<theCore> it's not a big diff, but it fixes minor things
<theCore> some minor*
<joejaxx> LaserJock: dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${fluxbuntu-minimal:Depends}
<LaserJock> joejaxx: did you look at debian/rules ?
<joejaxx> yes
<LaserJock> I'm guessing the problem is there
<joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=169
<joejaxx> ohh
<joejaxx> i think i know what the problem is
<LaserJock> yeah?
<joejaxx> nope
<joejaxx> it still does it
<joejaxx> LaserJock: do you have an ideas on that?
<LaserJock> do you actually have minimal seeds?
<joejaxx> yes
<joejaxx> LaserJock: http://seeds.fluxbuntu.net/edgy
<joejaxx> those are the seeds
<joejaxx> which germinate fine through ./update
<joejaxx> LaserJock: and the funny part is that the rules file actually looks right
<LaserJock> yes it does
<LaserJock> what does debian/control look like?
<joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=170
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> copy the source dir to a tmp location
<joejaxx> the source dir?
<joejaxx> what do you mean?
<joejaxx> the while fluxbuntu-meta-0.1 folder?
<joejaxx> whole*
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ok i copied it
<LaserJock> then go into it
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> i am in the src folder
<joejaxx> ok what to do now
<LaserJock> run make -f debian/rules build
<LaserJock> sorry, had a water spill
<joejaxx> it is quite alright
<LaserJock> do you see *.substvars files in debian/ ?
<joejaxx> make: Nothing to be done for `build'.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yes i do
<LaserJock> ok, so does fluxbuntu-minimal.substvars have anything in it
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> hmm
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yeah i have no idea what the problem is
<LaserJock> I was trying to look for typos or something like that
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> well, I've got to call it a night
<LaserJock> I hope you can get that fixed joejaxx
<LaserJock> I just don't see anything obvious
<joejaxx> alright
<joejaxx> goodnight LaserJock
<theCore> I'm out too
<theCore> g'night all
<joejaxx> goodnight theCore
<Lathiat> so
<Lathiat> i wonder how many more avahi-daemon not starting bugs we can get before edgy is released
<Lathiat> maybe we should make it print a message
<sivang> morning
<Lathiat> 'Avahi is not enabled, check /etc/default/avahi-daemon'
<Lathiat> o rsomething
<ajmitch> Lathiat: think of how many you can collect after release
<ajmitch> people won't see the message
<sivang> heh
<Lathiat> they will fi theyre tryign to start it manually
<Lathiat> sudo /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon start style
<Lathiat> which is what they seem to be doing
<sivang> didn't we fix a small GUI starter for that?
<Lathiat> oh right this guy was using the services utility
<Lathiat> sivang: yeh problem si by default it doesnt start
<Lathiat> sivang: which confuses the hell out of everyone
<sivang> Lathiat: so let's have something popping once avahi is executed, and the daemon can't be found
<sivang> Lathiat: and offer "Do you want to enable it" on the sport
<sivang> spot
<Lathiat> well
<Lathiat> it depends what they're doing
<imbrandon> moins all
<imbrandon> heya sivang Lathiat
<sivang> will it be hard to make smart guesses at what they're doing and act accordingly?
<sivang> hey imbrandon !
<Lathiat> sivang: if for example they reboot and it "doesnt work" its hard
<Lathiat> imbrandon: yo
<sivang> Lathiat: I would think this use case would be catered by offering to start the daemon any time a client can't connect to one locally, but then if it doesn't start due to a software crash or some other misfortuen the user would be mislead into an endless loop of "Do you want to enable?.." "Yes, sure I do!" "Daemon is not enabled, would you want to enable?"... and so forth
<sivang> we would also have to pop up a window explaining about security due to this..
<Lathiat> you mean when a program cant find avahi running?
<Lathiat> mm
<sivang> Lathiat: yes, indeed.
<AnAnt> ping lionelp
<lionelp> pong AnAnt
<AnAnt> lionelp: you know about freecontrib.org ?
<lionelp> yes
<AnAnt> lionelp: do they have an authentication key ?
<AnAnt> lionelp: I got a problem updating from it today
<AnAnt> lionelp: and their website is in french, that's why I ask u
<AnAnt> lionelp: je ne comprends le francais
<lionelp> :)
<AnAnt> hehe, that's like saying "no" to someone asking you if you can hear him :)
<lionelp> AnAnt: I have not the key because I am not using it, but i am searching on the website to see if they give it
<AnAnt> k, thanks
<lionelp> AnAnt: sorry, I do not find any key
<lionelp> maybe, there is none
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> I got this from apt-get update: W: GPG error: http://packages.freecontrib.org edgy-plf Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY F120156012B83718
<Nafallo> gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key F120156012B83718 doesn't work?
<AnAnt> Nafallo: yeah, thanks
<Nafallo> np
<AnAnt> Nafallo: now what should I do with it ?
<AnAnt> Nafallo: nevermind, I found out !
<ChaosFan> t/wg 42
<Nafallo> any german guy awake? :-)
<imbrandon> bwhahah
* imbrandon dances
<imbrandon> ajmitch, you round ?
<imbrandon> TheMuso, ping
<lastnode> imbrandon, yo
<imbrandon> heya lastnode
<lastnode> imbrandon, we're making some progress. i bet you're still busy though. maybe we'll package it after edgy ships?
<imbrandon> yea we'll stick it in universe when the freeze is over ( after edgy ships )
* imbrandon finaly got the compiler to work correctly ;)
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25950/
<imbrandon> now to make pbuilder use it and make ppc packages
<\sh> moins
<sivang> hey
<sivang> moin \sh
<spacey> zul: ping
<\sh> hey sivang
<spacey> good morning \sh and sivang
<\sh> ajmitch / siretart: regarding https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/63274 ... ok to upload?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63274 in wine "UVF exception request wine 0.9.22" [High,Confirmed] 
<ajmitch> \sh: fine by me
<YokoZar> \sh: hi
<YokoZar> \sh: What a coincidence opening this window when you're discussing Wine
<ajmitch> hey YokoZar
<YokoZar> Hey there
<\sh> ajmitch: ok..uploaded :)
<YokoZar> Any Wine questions while I'm here?
<Q-FUNK> Red or White?
<YokoZar> Q-FUNK: redmond red
<Q-FUNK> LOL
<Q-FUNK> that would be an awesome inside joke if someone were to make such a wine
<\sh> YokoZar: hehe..yeah sometimes there are little surprises...
<YokoZar> \sh: Oh?
<\sh> YokoZar: in my company I'm always asked, why wine is not working in native 64bit mode on x86_64 arch ;)
<YokoZar> Your company sounds like my email
<YokoZar> Any luck getting it to compile on 64 bit?
<YokoZar> I've seen like 5 howtos people have posted over the months but none of them work for building for me
<\sh> YokoZar: no...upstream told me, that wine on 64bit is right now in a very unusable state
<\sh> and not thinking about 32bit wine on 64bit arch
<YokoZar> Pretty much.  I'm more talking about building in 32-bit mode
<ajmitch> YokoZar is one of upstream, right?
<YokoZar> I make the winehq packages
<\sh> ajmitch: YokoZar is scott ritchie :)
<ajmitch> yeah, that's what I thought
<ajmitch> \sh: I know
<\sh> accepted wine 0.9.22
<ajmitch> great, thanks for that
<YokoZar> You fixed the bug I opened ~ build depends right?
<ajmitch> about libhal-dev, libgphoto2-2-dev, etc?
<\sh> YokoZar: yeah :) I read changelogs ;)
<YokoZar> hot
<ajmitch> YokoZar: that's in
<ajmitch> \sh: might as well close bug 64065 then
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64065 in wine "Missing build depends: libhal-dev, libhal-storage-dev, libgphoto2-2-dev" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64065
<YokoZar> So other than forcing the  stack protector off at build time, is the package any different from mine?
<\sh> YokoZar: yes, I had to remove libjack-dev and libicu-dev from build-deps ... pbuilder doesn't like it
<\sh> YokoZar: but this I do since ages :)
<\sh> YokoZar: 64065 closed
<YokoZar> Cool
<YokoZar> Looks like when I start running an edgy system I'll be able to maintain the edgy branch of winehq very easy :)
<ajmitch> YokoZar: that would be good
<\sh> :))
<\sh> YokoZar: thx for your energy and time to maintain those packages for winehq :)
* ajmitch should probably update his edgy i386 chroot that he uses for playing diablo 2 :)
<\sh> ajmitch: you should upgrade to WoW ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: too expensive & easy to get addicted ;)
<YokoZar> Part of me feels guilty for helping people play WoW...
<ajmitch> besides, I only have a slow old amd64 with a geforce 6600
<\sh> YokoZar: I don't play wow on wine :) actually I try to avoid using wine ;)
<YokoZar> Frankly all I use it for these days is online poker and utorrent
<YokoZar> And eMule, I guess
<ajmitch> I haven't played d2 for a couple of months
<ajmitch> & last time I tried it didn't like battle.net anyway
* ajmitch needs to find a proper way to install from the legit cds
<\sh> so..what needs to be done for edgy
<\sh> unmet deps ?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/unmet/unmet.txt for a list I annotated a couple of days ago
<ajmitch> I've got abotu 20 f-spot patches to pull from cvs, at the suggestion of an upstream developer :)
<\sh> what about the "new merges" ... that's unfair ,)
<ajmitch> \sh: we're in universe upstream version freeze, so...
<\sh> ajmitch: yepp
<ajmitch> we need to get stuff installable & try & fix as many *critical* bugs as possible
<ajmitch> yay, another f-spot bug for me to fix
* ajmitch needs more hours in the day
* Q-FUNK needs help to fix a pygtk code segment
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: what's the problem?
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: some hard-coded colors in the code I adopted.  I would need to replace this with macros that adopt whatever the gtk2 theme offers.
<Q-FUNK> however, I don't understand the way gtk2 theme inheritance works at all.
<ajmitch> ah, neither do I sorry
<Q-FUNK> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=374997
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 374997 in wnpp "ITP: utf8-migration-tool -- tool to migrate a Debian system to UTF-8" [Wishlist,Open] 
<Q-FUNK> this is the problem spot
<ajmitch> hm
* ajmitch doesn't know where to fetch the current theme colours
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> pygtk2? isn't there a nice tutorial on how to code pygtk the right way?
<Q-FUNK> there might be
<Q-FUNK> I'm not much of a coding type to begin with
<Q-FUNK> IIRC there is one but I couldn't find the answer I need there.
<\sh> Q-FUNK: http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=index
<\sh> http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=show&file=faq04.006.htp
<ajmitch> \sh: does that get the current theme settings?
<Q-FUNK> it seems not.  it just explains how to hard-code a color
<\sh> Q-FUNK: so..if you don't set a color, you should get the default
<\sh> shouldn't be different to qt
<Q-FUNK> I don't know QT either, so I couldn't tell :)
<\sh> what about removing the line which are changing the color?
<Q-FUNK> that makes it worse
<Q-FUNK> sidebar_color = gtk.gdk.color_parse('#cccccc')
<Q-FUNK> I have this
<Q-FUNK> later on, it's used at
<Q-FUNK> self.eventbox_top.modify_bg(gtk.STATE_NORMAL, self.sidebar_color)
<\sh> and removing the modify_bg call?
<\sh> (commenting in)
<Q-FUNK> the color does need to be set, just it would need to inherit the theme
<Q-FUNK> it needs to inherit the color for selected or disabled items
<\sh> hmm....
<\sh> ask some gnome/gtk cracks ;)
<\sh> ok...doing some real live tasks
<\sh> bb
<\sh> bbl
<ajmitch> hm
<Fujitsu> Let's all hum!
<ajmitch> nah, dsl just dropped for a couple of minutes
<ajmitch> connection to freenode didn't disappear, thankfully
<Q-FUNK> is this the hum shopping network? ;)
<cvacubo> Hello
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<imbrandon_> Fujitsu: check query, /me is afk
<bddebian> Heya gang
<lukas__> Hey, I have a simple upgrade to my gfceu package.  It fixes a lot of annoying bugs, and it would be great to see in edgy.  Could someone please upload it?  It's been in the revu for a couple weeks. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3214
<Hobbsee> lukas__: it's after freeze, you'll need a UVF exception now
<lukas__> Hobbsee: Argh :-\ Would they give a UVF for a trivial program?
<Hobbsee> probably not.
<Hobbsee> depends what it is
<Hobbsee> see the topic
<lukas__> Alright
<jonduf> Hi, I am looking for the package that will put linux/module.h in my include directory. I am trying to compile a very simple helloword.c kernel module and gcc can't find this file, nor can I find it in synaptic. Anyone know where to find it?
<sivang> sivan@swirl:~$ dpkg -S linux/module.h
<sivang> linux-headers-2.6.17-5: /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.17-5/include/linux/module.h
<sivang> jonduf: ^^
<sivang> linux-headers-2.6.17-5-686: /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.17-5-686/include/linux/module.h
<sivang> jonduf: match this with your running kernel though.
<Adri2000> apt-file is your friend
<jonduf> thanks
<sivang> jonduf: (the package is linux-header-*)
<jonduf> right
<jonduf> I thought I had that installed though, let me check
<jonduf> ok, I do see it now, perhaps there is something in this module tutorial I am not doing correctly, thanks for you help
<sivang> jonduf: no problem
<theCore> I got a UVF exception, now how do I do the sync?
<Adri2000> file a bug
<tuxmaniac> Can someone check whether sudo apt-get install libsdl-image1.2-dev is not broken!!
<kristog> when will edgy released?
<imbrandon> the release schedule is in the topic
<kristog> imbrandon, sorry, thank you
<imbrandon> np
<zul> ah so it is...:)
<imbrandon> heya zul
<zul> hey imbrandon how is it going?
<imbrandon> great, actualy got my crosscompilers packages and working
<imbrandon> heh now trying to make pbuilder use them and make packages for other arches
<zul> cool...got your flights booked?
<zul> nify..
<imbrandon> the travel agent hasent got back to me yet
<zul> hmmm...that sucks..
<imbrandon> that reminds me i need to email her again
<imbrandon> you?
<zul> yep leaving oat 6am in the monring on the 4th
<imbrandon> nice
<zul> not really...
<zul> which means i have to get up at like 3 in the morning
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> what airport are you flying into? SF ?
<zul> san jose
<zul> im still giddy about it
<imbrandon> hehe me too, i just poked the agent again, hopefully she will get back to me in the morning
<imbrandon> i soooo wanna get a new laptop before then but i dont think i will have the money before UDS so i'll likely just bring my slow ibook hehe
<zul> yeah my laptop died unforunately
<imbrandon> zul, so you got any specs in mind for UDS ?
<imbrandon> yea mine is a 800mhz ppc 640mb ram, not a speed demon but it'll work
<zul> imbrandon: mostly xen specs
<imbrandon> cool, yea i'm gonna try to get in on some of those, see if i can help out a bit since i use it might as well, as long as there is time from the ones i've already commited to KDE wise
<zul> im mostly commited to xen/kernel stuff though i have no idea what im going to get my hands on yet
<imbrandon> hehe
<joejaxx> imbrandon: want to see something?
<joejaxx> laserjock and i were trying to figure this out early this morning
<imbrandon> joejaxx, sure
<joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=169
<joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=170
<joejaxx> the first is the rules file
<joejaxx> and the second is the fluxbuntu-meta files
<joejaxx> all of the meta packages except fluxbuntu-minimal are able to pull the dependencies from the substitution variable
<imbrandon> very cool
<imbrandon> might wanna update the standards to 3.7.2 and debhelper to 5.0.0 but other than that looks rockin
<joejaxx> imbrandon: the is problem when i go to build the fluxbuntu-meta package
<joejaxx> the fluxbuntu-minimal package can not read the depends from the substitution variable :\
<imbrandon> one sec
<imbrandon> got that int he repo ?
<joejaxx> have what?
<imbrandon> that package ( and the source )
<imbrandon> i'll take a look
<joejaxx> oh no
<joejaxx> i am building them to put in universe edgy+1
<imbrandon> sure , but i mean for now, do you have it online somewhere
<joejaxx> imbrandon: no i do not
<imbrandon> hum ok nvm
<winkle> hi, a bugfix release of python-notify was just made, is it possible to get this in?
<Burgundavia> winkle: file a bug asking for it
<winkle> done
<ajmitch> hi
<Plug> yarr!
<kristog> ajmitch, ehrr
<kristog> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-butterfly/+bug/64709 this is for uvf-motu
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64709 in telepathy-butterfly "new upstream" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<ajmitch> yes?
<kristog> why you did   Assignee: MOTU UVF Team => Riccardo Setti
<ajmitch> kristog: correct
<ajmitch> I did that because it had 2 approvals
<ajmitch> & so it doesn't need to be on the UVF list
<ajmitch> as the great dholbach said..
<ajmitch> 00:29 < dholbach> ajmitch: can you mark bugs where you approve as the second uvf reviewer as 'confirmed' and assign to whoever filed the bug?
<kristog> ok, didn't know :)
* ajmitch is on UVF team :)
<kristog> yes, i know
<kristog> didn't see your post
<ajmitch> ok
<zul> ajmitch likes the power it give him an elevated sense of self-esteem
* siretart hates building kernels
<ajmitch> zul :P
<Toadstool> hey everybody !
<gnomefreak> hi Toadstool
* gnomefreak built my first package today :)
* gnomefreak needs more easy packages to build/package for practice
<Toadstool> hey gnomefreak
<kristog> night all
<gnomefreak> night kristog
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-03
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<norsetto> morning all
<soren> pkern: For one thing, the amount of places you need to change stuff to add an extra configuration option is positively *insane*.
<pkern> Moin siretart.
<pkern> soren: Looking at a loop, thinking "wow, this leaks" isn't fun. \:
<siretart> pkern: I'm currently on low bandwith, so I cannot really testbuild nor upload big packages like gnucash ATM. If you have a bit time, you could review my merge in the hbci branch and upload it to our PPA
<pkern> siretart: Aye, will do later.
<pkern> Currently on high bandwidth, but I should go studying a bit. But when I get demotivated again I'll do it.
<siretart> pkern: oh, I didn't want to distract yourself from your exam :)
<pkern> siretart: ;)
<Hobbsee> hi norsetto
<norsetto> Hobbsee: hey
<sladen> lamont: (sorry, at a conference) back to the clock issue.
<sladen> lamont: even when the time on the clock is wrong, it's never more than 24hours out, and only in an integer number of hours, and not generally minutes (other than general clock drift)
<norsetto> This is interesting, I used to be able to edit pages on https://help.ubuntu.com/ and now I'm not anymore.
<sladen> lamont: so the possible "future" values of the value of  ~ +1,+2,+3,+4,+5...+13 hours
<sladen> lamont: and those are the 13 possible values that will cause the premature fsck
<huats> 'ning norsetto
<norsetto> huats: 'ning
<huats> norsetto:  :-)
* norsetto needs some coffee ;-)
<norsetto> huats: I just got an invitation to a signature session with Regis Loisel. You know him?
<huats> norsetto: no
<huats> norsetto: oh yes
<huats> norsetto: I have heard about him
<norsetto> huats: ok, so you are not a bd fan
<huats> norsetto: but I am not a big fan of bd
<huats> norsetto: but as far as I know he is a very talented man
<norsetto> huats: I'm glad you are looking at all bugs, if I see yet another .desktop bug I think I'm going to explode
<huats> :-)
<huats> norsetto: unfortunatly I am not looking at all bugs...
<norsetto> huats: NO! Not another one!!
<huats> norsetto: but if you seen another .desktop just let me know, I'll try to take care of it... I don't want you to explode
<norsetto> huats: yeah, its going to take a while to clean that up
<huats> norsetto: I am afraid too
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: what do you mean by your last comment on avidemux? That you remove the package or just the last upload?
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: what do you mean by your last comment on avidemux? That you remove the package or just the last upload?
<lucas> soren: -T sets tags, not usertags
<soren> lucas: I see. Well, fix reportbug then. :)
<norsetto> any revu admin around?
<bluekuja> norsetto: need a resync?
<norsetto> bluekuja: hey, no, just wanted to check if I have ssh access enabled
<bluekuja> norsetto: oh ok then
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> you may need siretart then
<norsetto> bluekuja: yeah, thx
<norsetto> bluekuja: actually, you do have ssh access already?
<bluekuja> norsetto: yep
<bluekuja> norsetto: is your account active'
<bluekuja> e.g created
<norsetto> bluekuja: can you run some revu-report for me?
<bluekuja> norsetto: yeah, let me log in
<norsetto> bluekuja: is it a different one form the use I use to dput/review?
<bluekuja> norsetto: I dont get what you mean
<norsetto> bluekuja: I mean, its just one account right?
<ScottK> siretart: Why did you put gnucash in bzr?
<norsetto> morning scottk
<ScottK> siretart: Unless I absolutely can't avoid it, I don't use bzr.
<ScottK> morning norsetto
<bluekuja> norsetto: if you are talking about sparky, yes
* norsetto hopes bddebian is not around
<norsetto> bluekuja: yep
<bluekuja> norsetto: for sparky you need siretart to create an account for you
<norsetto> bluekuja: did you have to ask for something special to have ssh enabled? becuase I have an account already
<bluekuja> norsetto: nope, I was able to login with ssh right after having my account enabled
<bluekuja> on the system
<norsetto> bluekuja: hmmmm, there must be some problem on my side then
<bluekuja> norsetto: which message do you get?
<norsetto> bluekuja: Permission denied (publickey).
<bluekuja> norsetto: strange, is your key on LP?
<norsetto> bluekuja: yes, I can dput and login through the web interface with no problem
<bluekuja> norsetto: which web interface?
<norsetto> bluekuja: what command are you using to login?
<bluekuja> norsetto: revu?
<bluekuja> norsetto: maybe you enter a bad login name
<norsetto> bluekuja: the usual, what is it revu.tauware.de
<bluekuja> norsetto: ssh -l login-name host
<bluekuja> host is sparky.ubuntuwire.com
<norsetto> bluekuja: ok, let me try that
<bluekuja> norsetto: the host you was trying to use it's wrong, that's why^^
<norsetto> bluekuja: same problem
<bluekuja> mmm
<norsetto> bluekuja: some IP too .....
<norsetto> s/some/same
<siretart> ScottK: because its easier for me to maintain the -hbci branch this way
<ScottK> siretart: What's the -hbci branch?
<bluekuja> siretart: can you investigate norsetto's account on sparky?
<siretart> ScottK: see http://launchpad.net/~gnucash/+archive
* ScottK looks
<norsetto> siretart: sorry to bother, just I'm getting a Permission denied (publickey) if I try to ssh to revu
<pkern> siretart: See Jabber.
<bluekuja> norsetto: call it sparky, revu is just hosted there
<siretart> siretart@sparky:~$ id norsetto
<siretart> id: norsetto: No such user
<bluekuja> ^^
<ScottK> siretart: It doesn't say what hbci is?
<pkern> siretart: Currently testbuilding gnucash. Hm, just finished.
<pkern> siretart: Should I upload it or do you have other changes to integrate?
<siretart> pkern: please upload
<pkern> siretart: (quilt was not properly activated)
<pkern> siretart: That's not the HBCI branch.
<pkern> ScottK: German homebanking standard.
<ScottK> Ah.
<siretart> ScottK: banks usually offer their customers online access to their accounts via hbci
<ScottK> I see.
<ScottK> That makes sense.
<ScottK> Is there a reason that can't be integrated into Ubuntu's Gnucash?
<pkern> ScottK: OpenSSL linking
<ScottK> Ah.
<pkern> siretart: Hm, dch fails on that branch because the packaging is not in debian/
<ScottK> It's not clear to me how that's allowed in a PPA, but not in the regular archive?
<pkern> ScottK: It's not clear to me neither.
<siretart> pkern: apt-get install bzr-builddeb && bzr bd -S
<pkern> siretart: Yep but it's about updating the changelog.
<pkern> Our existing toolchain helps on such issues.
<siretart> pkern: 3 solutions:
<pkern> Name it `debian'?
<siretart> a) ln -s . debian, b) dch -i -c changelog, c) use emacs
<siretart> I choose c) :)
<pkern> Haha@a
<pkern> I go for b), even if zsh completion breaks.
<siretart> yes, I used to go with a), but I've settled on b) for now
<norsetto> siretart: ok, so what should I do? My usual login is cesare.tirabassi@gmail.com
<pkern> siretart: uploaded. How to merge the ubuntu branch into ubuntu.hbci?
<pkern> siretart: Done, now testbuilding.
<bluefoxicy> does anyone know when the gutsy partners distro goes live
<bluefoxicy> err. repo
* norsetto goes to have lunch
<bluefoxicy> hrm, all it has is opera... but I want vmware server
<sladen> bluefoxicy: http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/
<sladen> I want a Pony!
<bluefoxicy> hrm, pony?
<bluefoxicy> I knew open source developers were into some strange stuff but...
<siretart> pkern: err, bzr merge <urltoubuntubranch>?
<siretart> norsetto: looking into it
<pkern> siretart: Yep got that. ;)
<siretart> norsetto: what do you need the account on sparky for?
<ScottK> StevenK: I was curious if you had any more specific suggestions on the razor bug?
<StevenK> Waaah
<StevenK> No, none
<ScottK> StevenK: OK.  Thanks for looking.
<StevenK> ScottK: Sorry, I'm just trying to do (and keep track of) too many things at once.
<ScottK> I understand.
<siretart> norsetto?
<fernando> moin all
<norsetto> siretart: sorry, was having lunch
<norsetto> siretart: just to run revu-report, even though this might not be possible anymore on sparky?
<trunx> hi
<siretart> norsetto: you should be able to login now
<siretart> norsetto: revu-report? what's that? ;)
<Fujitsu> siretart: pitti's cryptsetup patch (or at least your upload) makes my laptop boot, thanks!
<norsetto> siretart: thx :-)
<siretart> Fujitsu: yay. so the merge works! thanks for the feedback!
<siretart> Fujitsu: wie now even have a working partman-crypto-auto now on the alternate installer, so we have now lvm on crypted PVs working out-of-the-box now :)
<norsetto> siretart: sorry, still can't get in .....
<asisak> Hey MOTUs
<asisak> Can some MOTU UVF ack my Tor update besides ScottK?
<soren> link, plesae.
<soren> please, even.
<asisak> soren: bug 137032
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137032 in tor "[UVFe]  please update tor 0.1.2.17 from debian sid" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137032
<soren> What was the outcome of the discussion on the mailing lists?
<soren> Didn't we decide to remove it unless someone stepped up to that plate and promised to maintain it forever and ever?
* jdong thinks Ubuntu needs a -volatile
<asisak> Yep. I want to promise to maintain it in Gutsy.
<asisak> And eventually in Hardy.
<asisak> Maybe in Feisty as well.
<jdong> clamav suffers similar fate
<asisak> Maybe we also have to update it in dapper till Hardy gets out.
<asisak> Yeah.
* lamont tries to remember who it was that wanted mlton bootstrapped
<lamont> it would appear (from 3 seconds of research) that amd64 is going to require 20070826-1, which is later than what gutsy has.
<norsetto> asisak: hi there
<asisak> hey norsetto
<lamont> so... do we want a new version of mlton available in gutsy on amd64, hppa, ppc, sparc (as well as i386), or do we want the current version on hppa, ppc, sparc, and amd64 in hardy?
<lamont> ScottK: ??
<siretart> Oct  3 16:08:48 sparky sshd[27585] : Invalid user cesare.tirabassi@gmail.com from 79.17.75.227
<siretart> norsetto: no, just use your launchpad id, not your email as username
<Hobbsee> lamont: how big are the changes?
<Hobbsee> lamont: and does it break anything else?
<lamont> Hobbsee: I'm struggling to care enough to look....  bootstrapping things doesn't exactly provide me with lots of fun and joy....
<lamont> hence the "who was it who cared about mlton?" question
<Hobbsee> i doubt anyone cares about it, if it's that old
<Hobbsee> lamont: looks like it was a sync - so no one in ubuntu
<lamont> debian cared enough to get amd64 in in august of this year...
<lamont> Hobbsee: the issue for ubuntu is that it self-build-depends
<Hobbsee> lamont: classy.
<Hobbsee> lamont: i'm happy to +1 that, if it's that broken.
<norsetto> siretart: thats what I did (I tried all combinations actually)
<lamont> Hobbsee: oh, that we need to bootstrap it is understood.  the question of the day is, do we care enough about mlton/amd64 in gutsy to take a new upstream version in order to get it, or does it get to wait until hardy.
<norsetto> siretart: ssh -l norsetto sparky.ubuntuwire.com
<norsetto> siretart: Permission denied (publickey).
* siretart checks
<lamont> I really don't care which way - it's bootstrapping pain now, or later
* Hobbsee tries to remember the grep dctrl thingy, to see how many rbuilddepends it has
<lamont> grep-dctrl -FBuild-Depends,Build-Depends-Indep -sPackage mlton /var/lib/apt/lists/....Sources
<siretart> Hobbsee:         grep-dctrl -F Build-Depends -s Package $1 -n /var/lib/apt/lists/*_Sources
<lamont> and the only package in universe that build-depends mlton is..... <drumroll>  mlton
<StevenK> Yay!
<Hobbsee> lamont: lets sync it now then.  if anything starts using it, it'll be more useful to have a vaguely newer version.
<siretart> norsetto: I'm a bit confused now. I see not attempts of logins in the auth.log.. hmmm
<Zombie> I need a shorewall.conf file,
<Zombie> Anyone hav e one?
<norsetto> siretart: if you are confused imagine how I am ....
<lamont> Hobbsee: I think I'll see if 20060826 builds on amd64 first
<Hobbsee> lamont: cool
<asisak> soren: what do you think about tor? Do you want to wait till I send my letter to ubuntu-devel and tor gets accepted / rejected?
<Zombie> Anyone have a default shorewall.conf file?\
<Zombie> Please?
<soren> asisak: Ah, sorry, I didn't see your reply there. I have 132 irssi windows, so if people don't write my name somewhere on the line, I sometimes miss it. :)
<soren> asisak: If you intend to maintain it, I'll ack it.
<siretart> norsetto: and you are really using the ssh key you have registered with launchpad?
<norsetto> siretart: I only have the one
<soren> asisak: Done
<Zombie> Does anyuone know how to restore shorewall.conf to its original state using apt?
<Hobbsee> Zombie: this is about packaging.  not about shorewall.  the fact that no one replied the first time you asked propbably means they dont use it.
<asisak> soren: np. Thanks, even :)!
<zul> besides this isnt a shorewall support or a support channel even
<siretart> Zombie: try https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shorewall/+addquestion - or an appropriate irc channel
<Fujitsu> siretart: Does sparky have the usual Ubuntuwire key syncing script?
<siretart> Fujitsu: in principal yes, however, I copy'n'paste the relevant lines in a rootshell
<siretart> Fujitsu: too sad that nobody steps in for ubuntuwire :(
<Fujitsu> siretart: You mean you wrote his authorized_keys by hand, and it still doesn't work!?
<norsetto> the ineffable norsetto ....
<siretart> I've downloaded it from https://launchpad.net/~norsetto/+sshkeys
<asisak> soren: should I subscribe archive people now?
<asisak> (Since it is a sync, acked by MOTU UVF)
<siretart> root@sparky:~# ls -l ~norsetto/.ssh/
<siretart> -rwx------ 1 norsetto ubuntu-dev 606 Oct  3 16:27 authorized_keys
<soren> asisak: Yes.
<Fujitsu> siretart: What does auth.log say?
<siretart> Fujitsu: norsetto let's move this to #ubuntuwire, please
<\sh> moins
<pkern> What's ubuntuwire? ;)
<siretart> pkern: it was an attempt to have something like the debian project machines in ubuntu
<lucas> "was"?
<siretart> pkern: atm, there is only one public machine left: sparky. the main problem are admin volunteers, I think
<lucas> ah ok
<siretart> well, I'm the local admin for sparky, since it is hosted at my work-place
<asisak> hey \sh
<siretart> but I don't have time to keep the account script up-to-date, and create accounts on request only
<Hobbsee> hiya \sh
<Fujitsu> siretart: Why is the account script broken now? (I wrote it)
<\sh> hey Hobbsee asisak siretart
<siretart> huhu Shoragan
<siretart> huhu \sh
<\sh> Nafallo, last gajim upload brought me a annoying feature..:(
<\sh> Nafallo, chat messages coming from remote  are now displayed under the name of the buddy...my messages are still displayed next to my name
<Nafallo> \sh: hmm, how do you mean?
<Nafallo> \sh: oh. I don't use remote...
<\sh> Nafallo, no...when a message comes from a buddy...it's not displayed next to the name...but under the name
<\sh> while self typed messages are still displayed next to my name
<lamont> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9692173/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-hppa.xserver-xorg-input-microtouch_1%3A1.1.0-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<lamont> dies on i386/gutsy as well...
<lamont> and is only one of several xserver-xorg-* packages in that state
<Nafallo> \sh: ah. statusmessages?
<\sh> Nafallo, give me a sec for showing you a screenshot
<Nafallo> \sh: thanks :-).
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sladen> hey yeah bddebian
<bddebian> Hello sladen
<asisak> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello asisak
<norsetto> Hola bddebian
<lamont> make[4] : *** [mlton-compile]  Error 1
<lamont> so much for current gutsy mlton working on amd64
<bddebian> Hello norsetto
<\sh> wtf is mlton?
<lamont> \sh: some compiler crack
<dfiloni> Hi norsetto
<lamont> or was that crack compiler?
<norsetto> dfiloni: hi there
<siretart> ML considered crack?
<lamont> the only reason I can see why we should even consider grabbing new mlton is (1) no one cares about  it (2) it'd let me bootstrap amd64 while I'm bootstrapping sparc/ppc/hppa instead of later
<lamont> siretart: nah.. I just have _absolutely_ no clue what mlton is....
<lamont> nor do I care to.
<lamont> then again, I gather that ML is one of them thar computor languages
<zul> hyuck hyuck
<lamont> which sums up my knowledge of it.
<lamont> (and if I'm mistaken in that gathering, I don't really care, either...)
<lamont> it definitely fits into my "I frequently don't want to know about a package I uploaded 5 minutes ago" category
<\sh> lamont, what's the error message?
<lamont> \sh: you have a ronne login?
<\sh> lamont, I don't have any login, just to my machine...
<lamont> ok
<lamont> Error: ../lib/mlton/basic/file-desc.sml 14.32.
<lamont>   Function applied to incorrect argument.
<lamont>     expects: _ * (_ -> [word] )
<lamont>     but got: _ * (_ -> [Word64.word] )
<lamont>     in: o (Word.layout, fdToWord)
<lamont> which is to say, 20070826-1 contained fixes to make it build on amd64
<siretart> lamont: ah, so I expect you love the 'last uploader is responsible' policy ;)
<bddebian> heh
<lamont> siretart: what policy?
<\sh> lamont, why not sync it in with an UVE? it could be better then a broken package now ;)
<lamont> mind you, I do live by that policy to some extent... if my upload broke things, then I care.  if it didn't, then I reassign the bug to keybuk. :-)
<lamont> \sh: it's a non-existant package now
<lamont> mlton is dep-wait mlton in LP for gutsy
<\sh> oh nice
<\sh> so it needs a little bootstrap kick
<lamont> so today's fun is "bootstrap it on hppa/ppc/sparc", let motu decide if they want to sync something newer, if they do, deal with amd64
<lamont> mind you, I'd prefer that it _NOT_ be synced until after I bootstrap the 3
<lamont> although I don't care _that_ much
<lamont> I am likely to upload -1build1 when all is done to force a rebuild-with-LP-debs for sanity and love
<siretart> lamont: so you can inject binaries into the archive bypassing the lp buildds?
<lamont> no
<lamont> I can accomplish something that is effectively the same thing
<pkern> siretart: Well, I don't get why Canonical doesn't offer them for core devs.
<lamont> pkern: policy is that all binaries published on {archive,ports}.u.c were built from source on the buildds
<lamont> siretart: what I can do is push a new build chroot which points to a bootstrapping archive which has non-LP bits in it
<lamont> and from there, it's "lamont the human autobuilder" to the rescue
<\sh> sounds like a new title of an marvel comic..."Lamont, the Autobuilder" ,-)
<pkern> lamont: Actually that was unrelated to his current question, but even for this point my observation still holds. It's actually impossible for Non-Canonical people to bootstrap a compiler?
<ion_> :-)
<lamont> pkern: uh... I'm not sure how to answer that question... I am not canonical
<lamont> but I am special.  My mommy told me so.
<pkern> lamont: Hah (:
<pkern> siretart: That was re development machines.
<siretart> lamont: proll and openhackware FTBFS on i386, but can be build on sparc/powerpc. do you think you can get them into the archive?
<lamont> siretart: why do they ftbfs?
<lamont> are they arch-all?
<\sh> pkern, which could be a good thing...so the support-responsibility is still doko^Wcanonical
<siretart> lamont: because they are written in arch-specific assembly and are arch all
<siretart> lamont: qemu is using them as firmware for booting
<lamont> um... if they have arch-specific assembly in them, they are most certainly not arch-all.
<lamont> the standard, uh, hack for that is to build source on the right architecure, and have the uploaded source contain the built binary blob
<siretart> well, they are, since qemu is avaiable on any arch
<siretart> it is not executed, nor installed to /usr/bin/ or something
<lamont> which makes me wanna vomit
<siretart> it is executable code, which can be interpreted with qemu
<lamont> arch all that is ftbfs on other than $magic_arch is not arch all.
<siretart> yes. it wouldn't be a problem at all if we could upload manually compiled arch: all packages like in debian
<pkern> \sh: I talk about non-standard compilers like... uh... ghc or such things. ;)
<lamont> source should be fixed (to include a binary blob, which can have source there as well)
<siretart> lamont: I talked to the debian maintainer, and he refuses to fix it.
<lamont> fork
<pkern> But well one could upload ghc-bin or so and use that. :-P
<\sh> pkern, well, for this we have our buildd admins like infinity ;)
<siretart> and I'm not going to invest energy to make it cross-compilable
<siretart> I'd rather direct users to install the binary package (arch all) from debian
<lamont> pkern: there are abusive ways to inject binaries into the archive that could be done by anyone with upload privs.  I expect that such abuse would be likely to get their upload privs revoked.
<\sh> anyways...I'm leaving now for real work...updating paper CV and writing some mails to some companies for a new jon
<lamont> siretart: it doesn't need to be cross-compilable
<\sh> s/jon/job/
<lamont> make it an arch all package who's sparc-requiring build happens in the clean target, and who's build target just uudecodes the blob
<\sh> cu later :)
<lamont> pkern: the official way to bootstrap something circular is: 1) provide an archive with binaries that work 2) whack infinity/lamont and get it done
<pkern> lamont: Ok.
<lamont> pkern: of course, sometimes it can take months for someone to figure out step 2.
<siretart> lamont: which effectively means to ship a precompiled uuencoded binary in the source. :/
<lamont> siretart: ssssshhhh!!
<lamont> but _with_ source.
<lamont> see plao
<lamont> er, palo
<pkern> Hah. There goes the policy of injecting binaries. (=
<lamont> pkern: that's not injecting binaries.  that's delivering blobs
<lamont> and restricted is _ALL_ about taht
<lamont> that
<siretart> and you're sure the archive admins are okay with that?
<lamont> palo is in main
<lamont> siretart: the correct way is to get the debian maintainer to do that
<siretart> lamont: been there, tried that, lost, went home
* siretart makes a note to raise this topic on ubuntu-devel@l.u.c
<lamont> siretart: that's a good idea
<asisak> see you later
<release_dude> anyone here to answer questions on package update policies ?
<bddebian> I just have to re-iterate something.  Even though I get frustrated and feel pretty useless at times, the MOTU community rocks!
<release_dude> I would like to know the correct procedure to get a new version of the gnumed-client package into Ubuntu Feisty
<jdong> new version? Backports is your only route.
<jdong> what is the nature of the update?
<release_dude> the version in Feisty is pretty useless for anyone but developers. The version in Gutsy is the first one to be usable by doctors
<release_dude> I am from the GNUmed team
<release_dude> and get contacted often by people using feisty
<release_dude> they ask me why gnumed sucks so bad
<jdong> release_dude: that sounds like a candidate for backporting then. I've got to run now, but if you want to file a backport request on it I'd be happy to look.
<jdong> release_dude: due to the nature of Ubuntu's stable-release policy, the chances of getting an updated version into any other feisty update channel is nearly zero
<release_dude> thanks for the answer
<release_dude> this is too bad
<release_dude> People get frustrated
<release_dude> and tell me our software sucks, too bad
<jdong> release_dude: I understand your frustration, but at the same time it's difficult to balance a constant stream of updates with minimizing breaking of stable releases
<release_dude> I understand
<release_dude> I guess telling people to upgrade a otherwise stable distro is no way out, thanks anyway
<release_dude> jdong: https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+bug/118438 has been file some time ago
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118438 in feisty-backports "please backport gnumed from gutsy to feisty" [Undecided,New] 
<Linuturk> What is the procedure for requesting a new package to enter the Universe. There is currently a package called ocsinventory-agent comitted to the gutsy Universe. It's counterpart, oscinventory-server is not in the universe at this time. Would it be possible to make an exception for the server component of this server application? The deb packages already exist in Debian Testing as of August.
<lamont> Linuturk: it'll automatically be in hardy, if that helps any
<Linuturk> lamont: well, in a wierd way, I'm trying to get this backported to feisty eventually. I'm running a feisty server at this time, and I'm migrating an existing oscinventory installation from an old testing box to a production server. I'd like all the benefits that come with having an actual package instead of compiling it from source again.
<lamont> yeah.  sadly, the time for new packages, even in universe, is well past.  Then again, it is universe we're talking about....
* lamont is no motu
<ScottK> lamont: You are a MOTU by inheritence.
<ScottK> Linuturk: There is, at this point, not enough time to get a new pacakge through all the reviews needed.
<Linuturk> ScottK: What do you recommend? Wait for Hardy?
<ScottK> Linuturk: Yes.  Once it's in the Hardy repository it can be backported from there.
<leonel> the security updates for  backports  how it's done ?  like any other package in universe ?
<Linuturk> Can it be backported from Hardy Devel ScottK ? When is that repo usually setup?
<ScottK> Usually a few weeks after the previous release.
<Linuturk> thank you guys for the info
<lamont> ScottK: I'm not a policy-maker for universe
<ScottK> True.
<lamont> I'm just a rampaging uploader from time to time...
<zul> lamont: we all are
<lamont> ScottK: thoughts on mlton/amd64?  I'm going to assume it's a hardy thing
<ScottK> lamont: Since it's FTBFS on all archs except i386 now, I think the downside risk is low.  My inclination (without having looked at the amount of code churn in the newer version) would be to go for it.
<ScottK> Err. Depwait, not FTBFS
<lamont> it's dep-wait mlton
<lamont> as in Build-Depends: $SELF
<ScottK> Then there's always the removal option.
<ScottK> Since the package is IMO broken by design.
<lamont> well, gcc build-depends gcc
<lamont> and X build-depends X
<ScottK> lamont: I'm deeply ambivalent.
<siretart> and mono build-depends mono
<siretart> we have a lot of self-builddepending crap in our archive
<lamont> it's normal for compilers and X to build-depend on themselves...
<ScottK> OK.
<lamont> then again, after the breakup into xorg bite-sized pieces, it's possible that X doesn't build-depend itself anymore
<lamont> oh, and let's not forget ecj build-depends ecj...  to hppa's great pain atm
<lamont> anyway, lunchtime for me.
<DaveMorris> I've been packaging up opensg for ubuntu in my ppa, and it's almost done.  Now the question is, is it best to use the release which was in 04, or take the active branch which is in cvs and do a release each 6 months?
<minghua> DaveMorris: Is there any reason you can't do both?
<DaveMorris> I can, I was wondering what fitted with the ubuntu way so it can be included in the main repo's
<minghua> Oh.  Then I don't know.  Depends on the nature of the software and the package, generally speaking.
<gnomefreak> is flashplugin-nonfree something we can update in dapper? its giving the same md5sum error that feisty and gutsy were giving when they upgraded the tarball upstream
<ScottK> gnomefreak: Seems to me that pacakge doesn't work meets the SRU criteria.
<ScottK> DaveMorris: How come they don't release?
<gnomefreak> ScottK: it does?
<gnomefreak> its not a security update
<gnomefreak> ok ill grab it and have it fixed by end of day
<ScottK> gnomefreak: SRU, not security.
<gnomefreak> yeah caught that :(
<kiko-afk> hey there
<geser> Hi kiko
<kiko> I'm curious if anyone would be interested in packaging OGMRip
<kiko> it's a DVD-ripping app for GNOME
<kiko> https://edge.launchpad.net/ogmrip/
<kiko> the author contacted me and I was checking to see if anyone would like to pick it up
<kiko> it has a previous packaging available at getdeb.org apparently
<DaveMorris> ScottK: it started as a research project, and I guess they are only fixing bugs now, whilst working on version 2 - which has major changes
<Lutin> gnomefreak: updated E packages available
<ScottK> DaveMorris: The svn snapshot...  Is it bugfixes to the stable branch or a snapshot of unstable development software?
<DaveMorris> stable branch
<jdong> Mez_: remind me in 24hrs to poke you to sponsor a prevu fix for Gutsy.... need to add a 1-liner to whitelist gutsy as a valid target
<bddebian> Anyone know what replaces gtk-config in gtk2?  Does it use pkg-config?
<zul> i think so but best ask in -desktop
<bddebian> Gah, too many damn channels :-)
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Thx zul
<bddebian> Heya geser
<geser> bddebian: have you tried looking inside libgtk2.0-dev?
<bddebian> geser: A little but as you know, I'm kinda braindead :-)
<jdong> can some kind soul sponsor http://severance.gotdns.org/~jdong/debdiffs/prevu-gutsy.debdiff into gutsy? One-line fix for Prevu under Gutsy, test built and installed and run.
<zul> jdong: for universe or main?
<jdong> zul: universe
<zul> jdong: ping me in a couple of hours say around 8 and ill do it
<jdong> zul: ok, will do, thanks.
<bluekuja> jdong: heya
<bluekuja> jdong: still need sponsorship?
<jdong> bluekuja: yes sir
<bluekuja> jdong: grabbing source ;)
<bluekuja> give me two minutes
<jdong> thanks
<gnomefreak> Lutin: ty i got them a bit ago :)
<Lutin> gnomefreak: hehe, cool
<bluekuja> jdong: uploaded ;)
<jdong> bluekuja: thank you
<bluekuja> jdong: you're really welcome ;)
<DktrKranz> keescook, could you answer a couple of questions regarding bug 137070 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137070 in bind "BIND version 8 generates cryptographically weak DNS query identifiers" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137070
<bddebian> Later gang
<gnomefreak> anyone happen to have a dapper chroot? for some reason dpkg fails to do anything :(
<leonel>  gnomefreak   want me to try some thing in dapper ?
<leonel> or dapper chroot ?
<gnomefreak> leonel: if you have one built what version of dpkg is there
<gnomefreak> should be ubuntu 6 or ubuntu7
<leonel> 1.13.11ubuntu6
<gnomefreak> leonel: does it work?
<gnomefreak> seems like a stupid question but ubuntu6 is failing badly here
<gnomefreak> dpkg: syntax error: unknown group `Debian-exim' in statoverride file
<gnomefreak> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2
<gnomefreak> please tell me you dont see that
<leonel> well I don't have exim ... let me install something
<gnomefreak> leonel: i dont think i have it either :(
<gnomefreak> nope package exim isnt installed here
<gnomefreak> ah yes it is its exim4
<gnomefreak> well without dpkg there isnt much i can do to remove it
<Kopfgeldjaeger> good night
<gnomefreak> i guess this means im redoing my chroot
<leonel> gnomefreak:  no problems  installing  libclamav1_0.88.2-1ubuntu1.3_i386.deb  with dpkg
<gnomefreak> night Kopfgeldjaeger
<minghua> Sounds like a broken chroot.
<gnomefreak> its most likely due to installing subversion-tools
<gnomefreak> minghua: its brand new
<gnomefreak> oh well start over sounds best
<gnomefreak> brb
<keescook> DktrKranz: sure! what's up?
<DktrKranz> keescook, that package does not have a patch system, and patch provided upstream is quite large (> 20k). Is it legal to apply it upstream or it is better to apply it in another way?
<DktrKranz> erm...inline, not upstream
<keescook> DktrKranz: without a patch system, inline is really the simplest way to go.  Note that almost no one uses "bind", they normally use bind9.  Since it's a large (and non-obvious) patch, it'd need to be tested.
<DktrKranz> that's the second question...since no one uses bind, I need to discover how to test it
<pwnguin> bind is just bind8
<pwnguin> afaict
<DktrKranz> pwnguin, yeo
<DktrKranz> *yep
<pwnguin> im not even sure why its in universe
<DktrKranz> it has been removed from gutsy, but is still present in < gutsy
<pwnguin> ah
<pwnguin> i recall someone filing a bug about bind not being bind9
<DktrKranz> bind8 has been marked as EoS
<DktrKranz> that was last patch provided (IIRC)
<pwnguin> so you want to backport some patches to bind that aren't upstream?
<DktrKranz> they are upstream
<DktrKranz> the last ones :)
<pwnguin> i see
<pwnguin> as far as patching
<pwnguin> i favor quilt / dpatch
<pwnguin> its nice to have the patches small and seperate
<DktrKranz> that's a single, big, patch
<DktrKranz> it was > 40k, but code was about a half
<pwnguin> have you looked at debian's package?
<DktrKranz> there's a bug open
<DktrKranz> but no fix has been provided so far
<pwnguin> ok
<geser> DktrKranz: based on that bind8 got removed from gutsy and new patches aren't expected anymore I wouldn't add a patch system only for this patch
<pwnguin> that' a good point
<DktrKranz> and bind8 was removed from debian too...
<pwnguin> esp if it's already upstream
<DktrKranz> geser, this is true even if this patch would go into a security update
<DktrKranz> I remember someone (pitti?) who suggested me non to introduce patch systems on SRUs
<geser> adding a patch system won't make the patch easier to understand
<geser> hopefully nobody will need to touch that package again, so there is no need to make it better than needed
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Yes.  That's what he's told me too.
<pwnguin> but in the general case, it does make it easier for debian to take back work if you've got explicit patches to review. obviously your case is non-standard
<DktrKranz> and if someone does, it will be for stable releases (gutsy removed it)
<DktrKranz> well, it is quite trivial for debian maintainer to get a patch for this, if he wants to
<lamont> ScottK: just to make sure, you're good with syncing the latest mlton from sid under the "What Evah..." clause?
<ScottK> lamont: I am.  You need another apathetic motu-uvf too.
<ScottK> zul is probably good for that.
<lamont> zul: where are you when I need your apathy???
<lamont> mind you, I don't want to actually sync it until after sparc/ppc build the older version
<DktrKranz> night all
* lamont decides to go out on a limb and say that we don't care about mlton/lpia for the time being
<gnomefreak> for dapper proposed what should i prepend to version? the docs say dont use ~proposed but the example gived uses ~proposed
<gnomefreak> it ends in ~dapper1 atm
<minghua> Prepend?  Or do you mean append?
<gnomefreak> append
<gnomefreak> sorry thought i typed that
<gnomefreak> so should i use ~dapper2 since its now ~dapper1?
<ScottK> gnomefreak: Just use the version number you want it to have when it hits dapper-updates.
<gnomefreak> ok
<gnomefreak> this is odd since its in backports
<gnomefreak> someone backported it and it is borked as were feisty edgy and gutsy
<gnomefreak> would ~6.06.1 be greater than ~dapper1
<gnomefreak> either that or i use dapper2 and its put in updates instead of backport
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: backports are independent from everything else. What are you trying to upload to? dapper-updates, or dapper-backports?
<gnomefreak> proposed
<gnomefreak> backports has flashplugin-nonfree (9.0.31.0.1ubuntu1~dapper1)
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-04
<gnomefreak> but same as with all others the md5sum was wrong
<gnomefreak> so this would fit into a SRU i guess since !info flashplugin-nonfree gives flash 7..... i can use 9 and use ubuntu1
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: You mean you want to fix what is in -backports?
<gnomefreak> the one in backports is broken due to md5sum mismatch but isnt that a acceptable for SRU instead of backports?
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Dapper RELEASE still has 7, and should probably stay that way.
<Fujitsu> I doubt everybody would be using -backports for the upgrade to 9 if it was ever going to be accepted into -updates.
<Fujitsu> Fixes for -backports go in -backports.
<gnomefreak> cant it will never work than since 7 no longer has tarball on adobe site thats why the upgrade from 7 to 9 failed on md5sums
<Fujitsu> Right, but I'm sure there's a good reason for not having 9 in -updates, and you're not about to change that.
<gnomefreak> ok so ill fix it for backports and talk to one of them. that makes more sense
<Fujitsu> Better still, fix it in Gutsy and rebackport it.
<gnomefreak> been fixed an dbackported from gutsy
<gnomefreak> i think
<Fujitsu> Then what is there to fix?
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: when they backported it (from feisty i just found out) it was before the md5sum issue was fixed or they didnt grab it from -proposed as im thin one that fixed it there so maybe from gutsy is better
<gnomefreak> s/thin/the
<Fujitsu> Didn't you just say it was backported from Gutsy?
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: i doubled checked it was from feisty by the looks of it
<Fujitsu> If it's fixed in Gutsy, backport it from Gutsy.
<Fujitsu> Rather than introducing a new set of source changes.
<gnomefreak> ok ty building
<minghua> Hi there Fujitsu, long time no see.
<Fujitsu> Hi minghua.
<Fujitsu> Yeah, school is making me rather busy at the moment.
<Nightrose> ;-)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> Hi there.
<bddebian> Heya ScottK
<zul> ScottK: ping
<lamont> zul: any objections to us grabbing mlton from sid so that we can bootstrap it on amd64 while I'm doing the rest?
<zul> lamont: none from me
<lamont> cool.  that's an apathetic "WhatEvah" from you and ScottK --> win
<zul> lamont: i mean yes of course!
<lamont> nah.  apathy was all we wanted.
<ajmitch> ScottK: do you have a PPA for clamav updates?
<lamont> <lamont> ScottK: just to make sure, you're good with syncing the latest mlton from sid under the "What Evah..." clause?
<lamont> <ScottK> lamont: I am.  You need another apathetic motu-uvf too.
<lamont> zul: like that. ^^
<zul> lamont: heh
<ajmitch> ScottK: as I understood it, you were considering the use of a team PPA for updates to it for various ubuntu releases
<ScottK> ajmitch: No.  I've been doing them through *-backports for Feisty.
<ajmitch> right, I just saw that
<ajmitch> & that 0.91.2 will most likely need backported now
<ScottK> I'm actually pretty strongly opposed to the current PPA ToS.
<ajmitch> so I've noticed
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'm waiting to make sure we're done before I backport that one.
<lamont> ScottK: zul: please attach a comment to bug 148804
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 148804 in mlton "Please sync mlton (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148804
* ajmitch was just helping someone in #ubuntu-nz with it
<ScottK> I'm also just about to give a pretty strong reaction to the LP "Here's how you'll do you work because we are in charge." discussion on ubuntu-devel.
<ScottK> lamont: Done
<lamont> thanks both
<zul> hah hah leafs suck
<zul> damn you ajmitch
<ajmitch> zul: excuse me?
<zul> the unmetdeps bugs you opened
<ajmitch> meh, deal with it
<bddebian> Rough crowd
<donspaulding> is a meta-package simply a control file with Dependencies listed?
<StevenK> donspaulding: Basically. debian/control, debian/changelog, a minimal debian/rules and a postinst if you must
<donspaulding> StevenK: would this discussion be better in #ubuntu-devel?
<StevenK> donspaulding: Either here, or there.
* donspaulding doesn't want to get on anyone's OT nerves
<ajmitch> OT in -devel? unpossible
<donspaulding> although there appears that there are a good number of people on both
<bddebian> *cough*
<ScottK> Zombie: I saw this and thought you might appreciate it if you hadn't already seen it: http://www.mandriva.com/company/press/pr/russian_public_agencies_choose_mandriva
<dholbach> good morning
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Ah, I love it when people register random projects, set ubuntu-security as the security contact, make it a part of debian-project, create some blueprints, and say the the Debian Collaboration Team is the approver of one.
<Fujitsu> *that the
<Amaranth> example?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Wow, that's special
<Fujitsu> debimag
<Fujitsu> Oh, and it uses the Debian BTS too, apparently.
<Amaranth> The debiandevelopers team is sad
<StevenK> Isn't that just elmo?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Last time I checked, yeah.
<Amaranth> yeah
<StevenK> I think that's an arefact of LP because it can't have a group with no owner
<Fujitsu> Woo, thanks LP.
<Fujitsu> I can't even unassign the team.
<StevenK> Heh
<Fujitsu> I get all the right buttons, but it is verboten, it seems.
<Flannel> Fujitsu: Only the owner can change the owner, I know that much.  Well, or higher-ups (admins)
<Fujitsu> Flannel: Yeah, it looks that way. (bug #137846)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137846 in blueprint "random people can assign you to a specification" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137846
<Lutin> hi there
<dholbach> hey Lutin
<Lutin> heya dholbach
<Lutin> mhh...I'm trying to make a custom livecd, with a custom sources.list. however when I try to install the system, it gets replaces by the default sources.list ... any clue about what could cause such a behavior ?
<tonyyarusso> Lutin: I don't actually know, and it's 2 am so I'm going to bed, but it might be that there's something in a preseed configuration overwriting that?
<tonyyarusso> That's all I've got at this time.
<Lutin> tonyyarusso: thanks for the hint :). however, looked around and haven't been able to find any preseed so far :/
<Lutin> ubiquity seems to use apt-setup to generate it, but the code is a little obscure to me
<highvoltage> !seen norsetto
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen norsetto - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Simon80> does any developer want to merge bochsbios from debian, to fix Bug #123185?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 123185 in bochs "bochsbios too old for Windows XP with qemu" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123185
<tonyyarusso> highvoltage: (use seenserv instead)
<highvoltage> tonyyarusso: (ok thanks ;) )
<mekius> tonyyarusso: btw, where do you live, 2am here as well :)
<\sh> moins
<siretart> morning folks
<siretart> dholbach: is somone is asking for me next week, I'm effectivly offline from tomorrow until next friday
<Hobbsee> hi siretart
<siretart> hey Hobbsee
<dholbach> siretart: vacation?
<siretart> dholbach: yes, I'll be in suedtirol with my gf until tuesday, and then on a buisness trip the next 2 days
<dholbach> siretart: nice... have a good time there!
<siretart> thanks! :)
* Hobbsee employs more of the "shoot it before it takes over" principle, and goes back to reading the launchpad bug statuses thread.
* Hobbsee suggests others do the same, before they take away more crucial LP features.
<dholbach> take away features?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: information portal for one - the one that had the maintainer, version, etc in it.
* Hobbsee has whined, and it will be reinstated
<dholbach> sacrifice a goat... haha
<Hobbsee> dholbach: :)
<geser> morning
<Fujitsu> Hi geser.
<wolfger> ping dholbach
<dholbach> wolfger: pong
<wolfger> Hi. I was working through the package update recipe on the weekend, and ran into some problems
<wolfger> I asked if I should update the wiki to reflect the problems I had, and was told to ping you during the week
<wolfger> problem one was no fakeroot installed, and recipe didn't mention it
<dholbach> wolfger: which recipe was that?
<dholbach> wolfger: fixing on packageupdate recipe
<wolfger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<dholbach> fixed
<dholbach> thanks :)
<wolfger> problem two was a problem with gpg.conf
<wolfger> by default there is a setting "use-agent". That prevented me being able to sign.
<wolfger> had to change setting to "no-use-agent"
<dholbach> really?
<dholbach> I never had that problem before
<wolfger> yeah, that problem took 3 people in here, and about an hour to figure out
<dholbach> do you use seahorse or something?
<wolfger> lol. No, I was asked that.
<wolfger> I do have kgpg installed, but wasn't "using" it.
<wolfger> from gpg.conf:
<wolfger> # For Ubuntu we now use-agent by default to support more automatic
<wolfger> # use of GPG and S/MIME encryption by GUI programs.
<Hobbsee> wolfger: did you have pinentry-qt installed?
<wolfger> shutting that off cleared the problem right up
<wolfger> let me check
<dholbach> I wonder if 'no-use-agent' will block seahorse people out....
<dholbach> might be that that's part of this upload
<dholbach> gnupg (1.4.6-2ubuntu3) gutsy; urgency=low
<dholbach>   [ Scott Kitterman ] 
<dholbach>   * Add 'debian/patches/60_install_options_skel.dpatch': Patch to
<dholbach>     install options file from upstream (LP: #76983)
<dholbach>   * Add 'debian/patches/61_use_agent_default.dpatch': Patch to set gpg
<dholbach>     (or gpg2) and gpgsm to use a passphrase agent by default (LP: #15485)
<wolfger> no, I don't have pinetry-qt installed
<dholbach>   * Add 'debian/patches/70_trust_error.dpatch': Patch to disallow illegal
<dholbach>     zero response for trust level changes (LP: #39459)
<Hobbsee> wolfger: installe it, then.
<dholbach> wolfger: I'm not sure what your problem is about
<dholbach> wolfger: I'll try it in a fresh chroot
<dholbach> wolfger: I added fakeroot to a couple of other places, so thanks for that
<Hobbsee> we install pinentry-qt by default now on kubuntu intsalls, btw
<wolfger> dholbach: thanks. I installed pinetry-qt
<huats> morning all
<Hobbsee> so that should actually be fixed for gutsy and beyond
<Hobbsee> (but it's only recommends, so currently doesnt help those who dist-upgraded without --install-recommends)
<wolfger> I'll have to check my Gutsy and make sure that's there
<huats> dholbach: hello
<dholbach> hey huats
<wolfger> so the thought is that with pinetry-qt I can put my gpg.conf back to "use-agent"?
<huats> dholbach: you already mentionned to who I can ask question about firefox stuffs, but I forgot...
<norsetto> morning all
<norsetto> huats: asacks
<huats> norsetto: hey
<huats> norsetto: thanks
<huats> norsetto: :-)
<norsetto> huats: his IRC is asac though
<huats> norsetto: ok
<huats> asac: ping
<huats> :-)
<norsetto> huats: seems like the Master is busy .....
<huats> norsetto: I guess so...
<dholbach> huats: asac
<asac> what can i do?
* norsetto hears the Voice of the Master
<asac> haha
* dholbach hugs asac
* asac hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> :-)
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach and asac
<huats> asac: hey... as you can see you have been named as "the person I can ask about firefox stuffs :-)"
* asac hugs Hobbsee 
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee back
<asac> huats: we hav a team :) ... #ubuntu-mozillateam
<huats> asac: oups
<asac> huats: though at this point of time, I am probably the only one awake :-D
<dholbach> asac: if you have a free moment (not urgent, it's hardy material anyway), there's bug 121302 for you :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121302 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  gecko-media-player" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121302
<huats> asac: ok....
<huats> asac: I am working on bug #137513
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137513 in torbutton "[UNMETDEPS]  torbutton: auto-synced, depends on iceweasel" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137513
<huats> ans I'd like to know where do I put the images that are in the skin ? since it is not a good idea (according to lintian) to put them in /usr/lib/firefox/extension/<name_of_the_extension>
<huats> asac: and first : is /usr/lib/firefox/extension is the right place to store extension (their are well recognised)
<asac> huats: does your extension contain _any_ architecture dependent file?
<norsetto> dholbach: hardy material, I like that :-)
<huats> let me check
<asac> if not you could put everything in /usr/share/NAME_OF_EXTENSION
<asac> and then create a link to /usr/lib/firefox/extension/
<huats> asac: I think there is no architecture dependent, since there is only xul, css, png and js files....
<huats> asac: just to be sure, I create a rep : /usr/share/firefox/torbuton or /usr/share/torbutton (since torbutton is the name of this extension ?)
<norsetto> asac: re. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=332, thanks for looking into it, I would really appreciate any input you have on it
<asac> huats: yes ... and take care that the link that you create in /usr/lib/firefox/extension has the name of the em:id in install.rdf
<asac> norsetto: what does gecko-mediaplayer do?
<norsetto> asac: play media embedded in a browser, using gnome-mplayer and mplayer
<huats> asac: ok for the link...
<asac> norsetto: whats new about that?
<norsetto> asac: who said it was new?
<asac> oh it isn't ;)
<asac> i just know about mozilla-mplayer
<asac> so i wonder what is this
<asac> norsetto: please take a look at mozilla-mplayer or gnash or any other ffox plugin ... look at debian/control
<asac> norsetto: you need to add some Npp- headers in order to make the plugin available in firefox plugin finder service for the served content types
<norsetto> asac: good point
<norsetto> asac: btw, are u available to take up a new pupil?
<asac> i think not before gutsy release. but after that yes.
<norsetto> asac: ok thx
<proppy> hi
<proppy> norsetto: hi welcome back !
<norsetto> Hola proppy
<proppy> norsetto: btw I've requested the backport of poker-engine as well
<norsetto> proppy: ok, that would solve the problem but scottk wasn't very keen on it
<BugMaN> norsetto: hi :)
<proppy> I was already processed by the archive
<proppy> according to the mail I received yesterady
<norsetto> bugman: hi there
<proppy> context bug #95836
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95836 in poker-network "[apport]  twistd crashed with OperationalError in __init__()" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95836
<proppy> norsetto: How about the mentoring thing ?
<amarillion> Hello, I have a question: I'm trying to get pbuilder to build with local packages according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#head-5e51532fca6153405af36a03364e03803e99edcf. However, when I do pbuilder build, it doesn't find any of the packages I added to my local repo
<norsetto> proppy: yes, sorry about that but your (tobe) mentor is not yet back, next week he should be in
<proppy> s/How/What
<proppy> norsetto: Ok np, was just asking
<proppy> norsetto: thanks a lot for taking care of this
<norsetto> amarillion: did you use --overrideconfig?
<amarillion> Yes, the problem seems to be with bindmounts, because when I do pbuilder login, I don't see anything in the bound directory
<norsetto> amarillion: just when it starts it should issue a meesagge about the mounted dirs, check if it is reported there
<amarillion> norsetto: I don't see that message, apparently it's not binding. Can I simply try "sudo pbuilder update --bindmounts /usr/local/src/archive/" to fix it?
<norsetto> amarillion: you should also add --othermirror and--overrideconfig though
<amarillion> ok
<tormod> I see "XSBC-Original-Maintainer" some places, "Original-Maintainer" in other. What is correct, or is there a difference?
<amarillion> norsetto, it doesn't work yet. I've tried: "DIST=feisty sudo pbuilder update --bindmounts /usr/local/src/archive/ --override-config --othermirror "deb file:///usr/local/src/archive/ feisty/"
<amarillion> Here is what I get when I subsequently try to use pbuilder: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/39519/
<DarkMageZ> tormod, i believe it depends where the package came from. if it's imported from debian then it needs xsbc-ori as the debian maintainer. if not then original-maintainer as whoever is the maintainer.
<amarillion> I must be making a typo somewhere, it doesn't mount that directory
<norsetto> amarillion: at least it is mounted now: -> Mounting /usr/local/src/archive/
<tormod> what does xsbc mean anyway?
<StevenK> eXtra field, Source package, Binary package, Changes file
<tormod> thanks
<amarillion> Hmmm, but when I do "sudo pbuilder login" a while later it's not mounting.
<norsetto> amarillion: well, err.... you don't have any deb in there!?
<amarillion> yes I do locally, not within the chroot, that's the problem
<amarillion> check line 46 of that paste
<amarillion> Oh I get it, do I have to specify the bindmounts each time I run pbuilder?
<norsetto> amarillion: yes, thats what I'm saying
<norsetto> amarillion: you have no .deb(s) in your local repo
<amarillion> oh hmmm
<norsetto> amarillion: and yes, you have to add the bindmounts every time
<norsetto> amarillion: unless the package its kept in the cache (which I don't know, check it out)
<amarillion> I'm starting to understand. I guess I have to create the deb before I do "sudo dput local foo*.changes" to add it to the local repo
<amarillion> I didn't doo that yet
<norsetto> amarillion: and remember to update your Packages too (most probably its just empty now)
<amarillion> oh, how do I do that? With mini-dinstall?
<huats> asac: if you find the time can you have a look at bug #137513 ? I've posted a debdiff...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137513 in torbutton "[UNMETDEPS]  torbutton: auto-synced, depends on iceweasel" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137513
<asac> huats_: really sucks that debian still names the target application in the extension package name
<asac> huats_: this package should be just named torbutton-extension imo
<asac> otherwise it looks good i guess
<asac> huats_: well ... where do you ensure that torbutton is in /usr/share/firefox-extensions/torbutton
<asac> ?
<asac> huats_: oh i see .install
<asac> huats_: where does the debian package install the extension?
<amarillion> norsetto: I got it working now, thanks!
<norsetto> amarillion: glad it does
<soren> ScottK: Thanks for the ack on mediawiki.
<pkern> huats_: So we have a working fix for #137513, which does not eat 100% CPU?
<pkern> huats_: Is there a reason you did not subscribe universe-sponsors?
<huats> asac: sorry I was out...
<huats> pkern: I have launched it many times , and apparently it doesn't eat 100% of CPU
<huats> pkern: regarding the u-u-s, I just asked asac for a quick review... in order to avoid a lot of unnecessary work for the universe-sponsors... but if everything is correct, it'll be my next move (to subscribe u-u-s)
<huats> asac: the debian package only install the extension for iceweasel (and thus only depend on it)... that was problem to be fixed...
<jussi01> could someone remind me of the command to check a .desktop file for errors?
<asac> huats: the distributed .deb should contain only one copy of the extensions files ... please put a symlink to the iceweasel directory as well
<huats> asac: ok
<asac> huats: when that is done ask me to take a look again. If its good we should send it to debian as well
<huats> asac: ok. I'll do that right now...
<huats> pkern: what can I do about your comment ?
<Fujitsu> jussi01: desktop-file-validate?
<jussi01> Fujitsu: ahh, yeah, thanks :) do i need a certain package for it?
<Fujitsu> !find desktop-file-validate
<huats> jussi01: desktop-file-utils
<ubotu> File desktop-file-validate found in desktop-file-utils
<jussi01> thanks :)
<gnomefreak> TheMuso: is it possible to make installing ubuntustudio-desktop leave ubuntu-desktop installed? i dont care much for ubuntu-sounds but those 2 are removed when installed
<TheMuso> gnomefreak: No, as the sounds package conflicts with the ubuntu one.
<TheMuso> As they share the same dirs.
<gnomefreak> figured as much
<gnomefreak> cant include both sound packages i guess?
<TheMuso> Um, no.
<_MMA_> In either case, the sounds arent working anyway. :(
<_MMA_> gnomefreak: And installing ubuntustudio-desktop over ubuntu-desktop doesnt get you anything but the theme. Best to just grab the theme manually. Our -desktop in just slimmer than Ubuntu's. So if what we took out is already there, there isnt much point other than the theme.
<gnomefreak> _MMA_: ah ok
<gnomefreak> ty
<_MMA_> np. Might grab the -rt kernel though. So much has moved recently my brain is scrambled.
<elmargol> Can someone please check if "deb http://gnunet.org/download/debian/ feisty universe" works?
<elmargol> I have some error reports :(
<cprov> hi guys, can someone help me to investigate a PPA build failure ? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9721899/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.pingus_0.7.1-1%7Efeisty1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<cprov> I suspect the source should depend on python and possibly python-dev, but I'm not sure, can someone, please,  provide a final word about it ?
<zul> cprov: i think you want python and python-dev-all rather than python-central but dont quote me on it
<Fujitsu> cprov: python, and perhaps python-all-dev.
<Fujitsu> But apt-get installing scons in a minimal chroot here works fine...
<cprov> right, thank you (comments going on on #launchpad too)
<huats> pkern: ping
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser
<huats> asac: I've modified the fix to bug  #137513 as you told me..
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137513 in torbutton "[UNMETDEPS]  torbutton: auto-synced, depends on iceweasel" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137513
<huats> asac: there is a comment from pkern  and I don't know what to do with it...
<geser> huats: the question is if it's a wise choice to have a iceweasel-torbutton package depending on firefox?
<huats> geser:
<huats> no
<geser> what about renaming the whole (binary) package to firefox-torbutton?
<huats> geser: the question is : is it wise to call it starting with iceweasel
<huats> geser: the thing is that it is for iceweasel OR firefox
<huats> so it annoyed me a lot to call it firefox-torbutton
<geser> has it to depend on iceweasel which isn't in Ubuntu? why not depend only on Firefox?
<asac> huats: the extension should be added to the extension application data of app-install ... in that way it will be shown when you press "Get Ubuntu Addons" in firefox Addons dialog
<huats> geser: I think it is better for compatibily with debian non ?
<huats> asac: what about the name problem ?
<huats> asac: regarding the "Get Ubuntu Addons" this means that I have to change the app-install-data package too ?
<geser> without renaming the Ubuntu<->Debian delta smaller but I don't know if it gets ever included in Debian or if we have to keep it forever
<asac> huats: maybe its in there already
<asac> huats: give it a try
<lamont> ScottK: wanna know something funny?
<huats> asac: I am trying right now
<lamont> mlton 20070826-1?  ICE FTBFS
* lamont files that under "What Evah"
<huats> asac:  I cannot find the "Get Ubuntu Addons", but since I am running tribe 4, that should be the reason....
<huats> asac: I'll try to get a beta very soon.
<Hobbsee> huats: why not just do the daily updates?
<huats> because I do not have internet @home for a few times (I juste moved)... I cannot plug my laptop to my company network...
<Hobbsee> ah
<norsetto> am I wrong, or updates from motu do not need sponsorship?
<Hobbsee> bwa?
<norsetto> brgbr?
<Hobbsee> updates from motu do not need sponsoring, otherwise what's the point of being a motu?
<norsetto> Hobbsee: he, better safe than sorry :-)
<jussi01> hello everyone
<norsetto> jussi01: hey there
* jussi01 gets more annoyed at x... 
<jussi01> hiya norsetto
<tonyyarusso> mekius: Minnesota, USA
<mekius> tonyyarusso: ah, to the north then :)
<ScottK> lamont: FTBFS on all archs?
<lamont> ScottK: well, hppa hasn't tried yet, and I haven't done the in-launchpad build on amd64 (which will succeed)
<lamont> and since gutsy isn't so picky about all arches being current for release, I figure I'll let the ftbfs work itself out in hardy
<ScottK> Did i386 work?  That's the only one we had before, so as long as that works we can file the rest under at least there's no regression.
<ScottK> soren: You're welcome.
<ScottK> norsetto: I gave up on poker-network SRU as too hard.
<norsetto> scottk: welcome in the club :-)
<norsetto> scottk: actually, proppy was telling me something about it this morning
<ScottK> norsetto: Yes.  That's why I commented.  I just read the scrollback.
<norsetto> scottk: ok, silly me ....
<norsetto> scottk: wasn't he saying that he backported poker-engine already? Or thats what I understood
<zul> whats poker-network btw?
<norsetto> zul: the one that is giving me still nightmares
<ScottK> norsetto: Yes.  I believe that's right.
<zul> norsetto: oh
<norsetto> scottk: ok, so whats the problem in backporting poker-network now?
<ScottK> norsetto: Should be fine now.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> where should i add "~feisty1" or "~gutsy1" in this version :-> "1:2.4~svn20071002-0ubuntu1~ppa7"? at the end?
<stdin> Kopfgeldjaeger: the end should be ok yeah
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok, thanks
<Kmos> bug 132221 - comment on it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132221 in devscripts "requestsync: Add latest debian version to the title of the bug" [Wishlist,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132221
<LaserJock> holy cow, these openSUSE people know how to do a mirror
<LaserJock> I just got the openSUSE 10.3 DVD at 10M/s
<zul> cool...traitor ;)
<LaserJock> well, I did those beta comparisons so I figure I better do one last review of the final product
<LaserJock> if their package management hasn't improved drastically it won't stay installed for long
<ScottK> LaserJock: Of course another thought is that the demand is signifcantly less than they'd expected so bandwidth is plentiful.
<LaserJock> somehow I kinda doubt that, but maybe
<LaserJock> our mirrors get absolutely slammed
<ScottK> I have no idea really, but it is at least possible that the whole Microsoft deal fallout hurth them more than they anticipated.
<mdomsch> they do a good job with their mirroring
<Nafallo> LaserJock: I get that from Ubuntu...
<LaserJock> Nafallo: get what? 10M/s?
<Nafallo> LaserJock: yea, at least.
<LaserJock> shesh
<LaserJock> I get ~150K/s from Ubuntu
<LaserJock> maybe up to 400K/s max
<Nafallo> hmm. I cheat though :-P
<LaserJock> I need to convince my uni that the need to have a local mirror
<Nafallo> HOST: lumberjack                  Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
<Nafallo>   1. 195.72.129.225                0.0%    10    0.5  41.1   0.5 171.0  57.8
<Nafallo>   2. ubuntu.datahop.it             0.0%    10    0.6   0.5   0.5   0.6   0.0
<pkern> Our Debian mirror at university is fun. They use some custom mirroring software which leaves an inconsistent state sometimes. And the mirror is one of the busiest net segments so it's even slow.
<pkern> To the extend that we get 10M/s from server far away but not from our local mirror.
<rexbron> Hey, would anyone be able to tell me the policy on what the distrobution field on the changelog should be when publishing to a PPA
<rexbron> ?
<pkern> rexbron: The one you target.
<pkern> rexbron: You might need to adapt the *section*.
<rexbron> pkern: in debian/control?
<pkern> Aye.
<rexbron> pkern: It is a qt app, currently I have it listed as kde? Is there something better?
<pkern> rexbron: universe/kde if you need the deps to be satisfied from universe.
<rexbron> pkern: and if they are all in main?
<rexbron> Section: kde
<rexbron> ?
<pkern> Aye.
<rexbron> cool
<pkern> Wasn't there some kind of Ruby metapackage?
<geser> pkern: for the default ruby interpreter? ruby
<Kmos> and ror ?
<Kmos> RoR
<Kmos> geser: bug 132221
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132221 in ubuntu-dev-tools "requestsync: Add latest debian version to the title of the bug" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132221
<pkern> geser: For the standard library.
<geser> ruby pulls in ruby1.8 which pulls in libruby1.8. is that enough for you?
<geser> there seems to be only one RoR package in the archive: rails
<pkern> geser: The description of ruby1.8 is misleading \:
<pkern> rdoc1.8 and ri1.8 are suggestions.
<geser> python also only suggests the -doc package
<proppy> hi
<proppy> ScottK: any nightware with poker-network ?
<proppy> let me know if I can help
<ScottK> I haven't had a chance to look at backports bugs since the first one got processed.  I will.
<proppy> You mean it popped a bug just after being processed ?
<proppy> I didn't receive any bugmail, even if I'm in bug contact
<lamont> pool/universe/m/mlton/mlton_20061107-1_hppa.deb
<lamont> ScottK: hppa didn't mind the new bits
<ScottK> Cool
<ScottK> lamont: How is i386?
<lamont> and I know amd64 will build
<lamont> ICE
<lamont> i386 is ICE
* proppy fears ICE
<ScottK> Acronym alert....  What is ICE?
<lamont> as in "Internal Compiler Error"
<proppy> Internal Compiler Error
<ScottK> That's certainly not good.
<lamont> iz feature
<lamont> fixed in hardy
<ScottK> lamont: Could that be because you bootstrapped it from an earlier version?
<lamont> no.
<lamont> it's generating C code that tickles gcc into dying
<lamont> ICE is always a gcc bug
<lamont> frequently, it's already fixed upstream
<lamont> and upstream (gcc project) doesn't care until you reproduce it on top-of-tree
<proppy> lamont: so right
<lamont> proppy: and rightly so, I epect
<lamont> expect
<norsetto> zut, apparently we can't add file in sparky
<proppy> lamont: getting an ICE which is not already fixed in HEAD, is something that definitly reward a tons of beer
<lamont> that would mean something if I liked beer
<proppy> s/beer/milk
<lamont> heh
<RainCT> hi
<ScottK> Hello
<RainCT> where can I change the mail address used by dch, debuild, etc?
<Adri2000> RainCT: DEBEMAIL environment variable
<pwnguin> RainCT: set DEBMAIL in your .bashrc (or whatever shell you like)
<pwnguin> DEBEMAIL even
<RainCT> ah right, thanks
<pwnguin> might as well hit DEBFULLNAME while you're at it as well
<_polto_> hello all
<_polto_> how could i propose a patch for mplayer to be applied ? We use Ubuntu as default distribution for our network cameras ( www.elphel.com & wiki.elphel.com ) and we have always to patch mplayer. I did a Launchpad PPA and uploaded a patched player, it work nice. So do we have to use our own package in our PPA or can you accept this patch ? http://downloads.sourceforge.net/elphel/MPlayer-1.0rc1-1.tgz?modtime=1169061782&big_mirror=0
<norsetto> _polto_: personally, I think you should propose the patch upstream
<ScottK> norsetto: OTOH, it it's not a risky patch, why not take it here in the meantime?
<tonyyarusso> Nafallo: mplayer question from _polto_ ^^
<norsetto> scottk: risky in terms of security?
<tonyyarusso> norsetto: and regressions
<ScottK> norsetto: I was thinking risky in terms of regression, but sure, that too.
<Nafallo> s/Nafallo/Fujitsu/
<pwnguin> ScottK: well, what if mplayer refuses it?
<ScottK> pwnguin: Then we have functionality that can't be gotten elsewhere.
<tonyyarusso> Nafallo: oh - you're listed as the contact on LP
<_polto_> yeh, it make just work mplayer with our 3 MPixel video stream :) and our network cameras are using GNU/Linux and GPL'ed FPGA video compressor.
<norsetto> scottK: the patch seems intrusive to me, without knowing mplayer in detail
<Nafallo> tonyyarusso: have the URL?
<tonyyarusso> Nafallo: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer/
<pwnguin> the mplayer source code is terrible
<Nafallo> hehe. that explains why I still get bugmail :-P
<tonyyarusso> heh
<tonyyarusso> _polto_: See if you can contact Fujitsu rather, then.
<_polto_> mplayer do not really refuse but since 3 years of meeting at Linux TAG do not apply it :( i personally seen Diego, Alex and others many times bout without any bugfixig :(
<Nafallo> tonyyarusso: fixed, thanks. Fujitsu and motumedia is the current maintainers.
<Nafallo> s/is/are/
<_polto_> ok, i'll send a mail to them . Thanks.
<ScottK> _polto_: Fujitsu is generally here, but I'd imagine he's probably sleeping right now.
<_polto_> yep
<_polto_> hmm what is Fujitsu's Launchpad member name ?
<geser> http://launchpad.net/~fujitsu
<Nafallo> fujitsu at ubuntu.com surely?
<tonyyarusso> yep
<tonyyarusso> the addresses just use your LP id, so if that link works, that e-mail will work
<pkern> tonyyarusso: Only if the person in question is a member. And as the sync is manual a change to the email address might take weeks to apply.
<tonyyarusso> pkern: true
<_polto_> just for people who are interested in OpenHardware : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3616515426451811910&q=user%3A%22Google+engEDU%22&total=333&start=0&num=10&so=1&type=search&plindex=0
<gnomefreak> `/win 10
<_polto_> it's Andrey's talk about the camera, about how the open source helped him and how he did come to open hardware ..
<_polto_> :)
<nicolai__> gn8
<norsetto> quiz: you have a patch ready, you wait some weeks to collect some more (you don't), you release the patch, what happens after half an hour?
<RainCT> good night
<bddebian> Later folks
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-05
<imbrandon> nixternal: ping
<nixternal> imbrandon: pong?
<nixternal> imbrandon: highlight me when you come back, I am working on a paper and will have irssi tucked away in yakuake
<imbrandon> nixternal: i was just gonna let you know there was a bunch of wordpress database errors on blog.nixternal.com ( i was adding a link to my blogroll )
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> stupid 2.3 update
<imbrandon> yea i'm customizing my 2.3 install now
<nixternal> I is odd, the one that is causing errors isn't causing errors in the other part...I need to go through the code and probably change the post2cat to post2term and what not
<nixternal> s/I/It
<nixternal> we all know I am already odd
<imbrandon> heh well actualy i think there was a script to fix the db on planet.debian.org the orther day
<nixternal> I think categories -> terms, cat_id -> term_id, and I forgot the other one I need to look at
<nixternal> hrmm, I will take a look at it
<nixternal> that stupid blog has been annoying as all hell
<imbrandon> heh i just re-did mine today after months
<imbrandon> fresh install
<nixternal> my admin page hasn't worked for the past 3 releases, and wordpress devs said it was my servers fault, and then when I upgrade to 2.3, it all of a sudden works again
<nixternal> you going to UDS?
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> not sure
<nixternal> ya same here...I am going to try and at least hit up fosscamp and meet up with some of the KDE guys
<imbrandon> i like my theme alot better now
<imbrandon> but i still am tweaking it  for tags now
<nixternal> ahh, congrats btw...didn't know you got married
<nixternal> of course I have to read it on your freakin' blog :p
<imbrandon> heh yea a few months ago
<Fujitsu> Oh dear, not mplayer patches :(
<Fujitsu> The mplayer codebase *suck*.
<Fujitsu> *sucks
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: heh
<zul> imbrandon: welcome back to the cult btw
<imbrandon> zul: :)
<Fujitsu> It has been almost a year since their last release candidate, and the diff since is absolutely enormous.
<gnomefreak> is there a core-dev i can borrow for a minute i was told i need a core0dev to sponser a source changing backport
<gnomefreak> core-dev even
<macogw> i made a source package for fusion-icon, the little notification-tray icon that lets you control compiz-fusion like beryl had.  compiz is in main, but can i still submit the fusion-icon source package to motu?
<imbrandon> macogw: yes
<macogw> and what kind of numbering should the version have? i put it in my ppa on launchpad beta with fusion-icon-0.0.0~git20070930-0ubuntu1-maco2 (it took me 2 tries to get build-deps right) because it's version according to the source is 0.0.0-git and i checked it out of git on sept 30
<macogw> imbrandon: ^
<Fujitsu> macogw: I'd probably say 0.0.0+git20070930-0ubuntu1 for the one in Ubuntu, and 0.0.0+git20070930-0ubuntu1~ppa1 for your PPA.
<macogw> ok
<Simon80> is anyone interested in merging bochsbios from debian to fix Bug #123185?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 123185 in bochs "bochsbios too old for Windows XP with qemu" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123185
<bluefoxicy> Google isn't helping
<bluefoxicy> why does virtualbox ose have a dfsg
<azeem> upstream has a bad track record
<azeem> bluefoxicy: did you take a look at debian/copyright?
<imbrandon> hrm whats the crontab ubuntu uses ? anacron ?
<bluefoxicy> azeem:  something about removing microsoft files?
<azeem> I don't know, I'm just saying debian/copyright is the obvious place to look
<macogw> bluefoxicy: is removing microsoft files a bad thing?  i thought deleting microsoft's products from a computer were called "fixing" it
<bluefoxicy> macogw:  it's not marked  "Debian did this because of DFSG"
<bluefoxicy> so I don't know why it's there :)
<azeem> where is it marked?
<bluefoxicy> also I'm reading /usr/share/doc/virtualbox-ose/copyright
<bluefoxicy> Due to license issues, parts of the Guest Additions have to be removed from the
<bluefoxicy> sourcecode. Some of the files were (c) Microsoft with an license which have to be
<bluefoxicy> considered non-free.
<bluefoxicy> ^^^ No indication if Innotek said "Yeah we deleted this" or if Debian just tacked that onto the end of pre-existing copyright from Innotek or what :)
<Toadstool> hola here
<bluefoxicy> but ok
<bddebian> Heya gang
<slangasek> can someone tell me how to get Ubuntu's dch -i to not append "ubuntu<n>" to the version number when preparing an upload of an Ubuntu-specific package?
<bddebian> The backspace key? :-)
<slangasek> kinda defeats the purpose of having a tool with commandline options, doesn't it?
<slangasek> also, I'm left worried that dch -i has been modified in other ways that are inappropriate for this upload
<bddebian> It adds a changelog entry, how much more can it be modified?
<imbrandon_> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon_
<slangasek> why should I assume that a package with one wrong behavior has *only* one wrong behavior?
<bddebian> It's not the *wrong* behaviour when it's intended.  It's just *wrong* for what you want it to do
<imbrandon_> actualy thats the correct behavure but in this case you can see the outp[ut
<bddebian> slangasek: You are certiainly welcome to add a changelog entry by hand if you don't "trust" dch
<slangasek> no, "no one's figured out how to detect the difference between Ubuntu-specific and Debian packages and adjust the behavior accordingly" != "correct"
<bddebian> What denotes an "ubuntu-specific" package?
<imbrandon_> slangasek: a debian package should be built and worked on in a debian chroot thus with debians dch
<slangasek> bddebian: is that a thinly-veiled attempt to trick me into working out the solution for this bug on the spot, or is it really not obvious to you what I mean by "Ubuntu-specific"?
<bddebian> Not it is not obvious.  If you mean a native package, at times those come from or go back to Debian as well so we typically make -0ubuntuX versions
<slangasek> fine then, I mean ubuntulooks
<imbrandon_> ahh you mean native package, not "ubuntu-specific"
<slangasek> I can see a case for using ubuntu<n> version numbers for such a package as well, but in practice that's not what's been done
<slangasek> imbrandon_: no, I mean Ubuntu-specific.
<imbrandon_> ubuntulooks iirc is a native package is it not ?
<slangasek> nope
<imbrandon_> then why are you not appending ubuntuX ?
<azeem> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/u/ubuntulooks/ubuntulooks_0.9.12-7/changelog
<white> weird
<white> i am building packages with epochs, but the final deb does not show the epoch (e.g. 2% for 2) in the version number
<bddebian> slangasek: I would say that because probably 90 some % or more of our changes append ubuntuX, it makes sense but if you feel it's wrong, you can certainly take it up with #u-devel or file a bug.
<imbrandon_> hrm and i still dont see how you think ubuntulooks is not a native package, looks native to me
<bddebian> imbrandon: It would probably never go to Debian since it's specific to Ubuntu so it makes sense.
<imbrandon> right , the very definition of native
<slangasek> no, the definition of native is "has no diff.gz".
<bddebian> Aye
<imbrandon> well if ubuntu is the upstream as it looks to be in this case
<imbrandon> then that matters not
<imbrandon> its a packageing mistake
<imbrandon> dosent make it non-native
<slangasek> no, you're using the term "native" to mean something it doesn't.
<imbrandon> no
<slangasek> the package has a non-native version number an non-native packaging; it's not native by any definition, whether or not you think it should be
<imbrandon> ok so lets reverse this then and i'll conceede to its not native, that still dosent mean its *shouldent* have a ubuntuX version per our guidelines even if it hasent been done in the past by that reasoning
<imbrandon> slangasek ^
<slangasek> that's fair
<gnomefreak> jdong: miss a channel?
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya bddebian
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<bddebian> What size are menu icons supposed to be again?  32x32?
<imbrandon> bddebian: yea afaik
<bddebian> Thx :)
<mekius> http://pastebin.com/mb63fed2 <-- known?
<mekius> gutsy
<jdong> mekius: I've heard that many times, I'd say known.
<mekius> jdong: ok :)
<mekius> wasn't sure, i don't use ubuntu, working on a project to build a live cd
<mekius> and i've been cursing apt for years heh
* minghua sighs.
<minghua> Are these "symlinking doc dir to save space" changes tested at all?
<minghua> You would think having one "fail to install" bug two weeks before release is already too many, let alone two.
<bddebian> What fun would it be without? :-)
<minghua> Good, the US mirror has the fixed version now.
<gnomefreak> how do i make a debdiff without the /tmp/ changes showing up?
<bddebian> If you are diffing the resulting .dsc files there shouldn't be any /tmp/ changes
<gnomefreak> ther eis for some reason though
<bddebian>  as in like debian/tmp/foo ?
<slangasek> do you have patchutils installed?
<gnomefreak> bddebian: http://paste.ubuntu.com/615/
<gnomefreak> slangasek: no i dont
<gnomefreak> maybe that would help?
<bddebian> Ah, you need that :-)
<gnomefreak> ah
<slangasek> yes, you should have gotten a warning message about the inability to use interdiff
<bddebian> aye
<bddebian> gnomefreak: Also, you didn't have to regenerate any files did you?  Like autoreconf or anything?
<gnomefreak> bano
<gnomefreak> bddebian: no
<bddebian> It was patchutils?
<gnomefreak> bddebian: dont know give me a few minutes g/f is talking/yelling at me
<bddebian> Oh, heh
<bddebian> Oh bano was a tab completion error .. :-)
<tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: and you're listening?
* tonyyarusso ignores once it transitions to yelling
<gnomefreak> yes i have to listen
<gnomefreak> bddebian: no it didnt help
<gnomefreak> hmmmm
<gnomefreak> yep still gives the tmp shit
<gnomefreak> hmmmmmmm
<gnomefreak> no matter how i do it it comes with the cruft
<bddebian> Oh holy crap, you are debdiffing a totally new upstream version?
<slangasek> right, that's the other case where debdiff will give you that - it can't use interdiff because of the nature of the changes so it has to unpack everything to /tmp
<gnomefreak> is there  a way to prevent this?
<slangasek> not use debdiff on things that are changed so much that they have to be unpacked to compare? :)
<gnomefreak> i was thinking maybe building with -i,bzr
<gnomefreak> slangasek: to fix this can i remove all tmp sections?
<slangasek> remove what then?
<gnomefreak> in the debdiff
<bddebian> gnomefreak: Why are you trying to debdiff an newer version?
<slangasek> it's hard for me to give any concrete recommendations here without seeing the package in question
<gnomefreak> bddebian: backport
<bddebian> Hrm
<gnomefreak> hobbsee got mad because the tmp stuff was in there she fixed it (removed tmp sections) but never showed me the fixed debdiff
<gnomefreak> oh and told me never to give her anything like that again
<minghua> gnomefreak: To be honest, I don't see big problem with your debdiff.
<gnomefreak> she said it failed to build iirc
<gnomefreak> failed to apply
<gnomefreak> not build
<bddebian> I would never apply a debdiff for an upstream version change but what do I know
<RAOF> Looks like it should've applied with -p 3.
<RAOF> bddebian: flashplugin-nonfree is special.  A new upstream means a changed MD5 hash :)
<minghua> RAOF: -p4, I believe.
<RAOF> minghua: Whatever :)  Increment p until it applies cleanly :)
<gnomefreak> she tried p0 and p1
<slangasek> -p3
<slangasek> but at that point it is probably simpler to just provide a tarball
<bddebian> RAOF: Don't all new upstream versions?
<bddebian> They would all have new orig.tar.gz
<RAOF> bddebian: Yeah, but the flashplugin-nonfree package doesn't include anything but debian/
<bddebian> Ah
<RAOF> There's no .orig.tar.gz :)
<gnomefreak> can someone look at this and tell me if all looks good. http://paste.ubuntu.com/616/
<gnomefreak> main concern is the /flashplugin-nonfree-..... in the diff headers/lines
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<mumbly> hi ... I would like to upload on REVU. Got a launchpad account and i'm a member of Ubuntu Universe Contributors team... Could you re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring as described on the REVU wiki page ? Thanx.
<norsetto> hello all
<dholbach> good morning
<norsetto> dholbach: morning master
<dholbach> hey norsetto :-)
<dholbach> master... tssss - whose master?
<StevenK> dholbach: Now whisper "Precioussssss" :-P
<dholbach> hahaha
* dholbach hugs StevenK
* StevenK grins
<norsetto> dholbach: is there someone we can contact about sigsegv in a canonical buildd?
<StevenK> What SEGV'd?
<slangasek> you can file a bug on whatever segfaulted? :)
<StevenK> And if you build it locally does it segfault?
<slangasek> (what package?)
<dholbach> norsetto: do you have the build log?
<norsetto> StevenK: its an ia64 build
<norsetto> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9800524/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-ia64.gnome-mplayer_0.5.0-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<StevenK> I've so seen this before on ia64
<StevenK> Okay, I've not
<StevenK> Setting up shared-mime-info (0.22-2ubuntu2) ...
<StevenK> Segmentation fault
<StevenK> norsetto: So your first step is to buy an ia64.
<StevenK> :-P
<slangasek> nah, your first step is to find the fix for this a while back in Debian
<slangasek> because I'm pretty sure I've seen that one get fixed over there
<slangasek> (but not in shared-mime-info itself I guess, which is current)
<slangasek> alternatively you can leave it for lamont to figure out :)
<norsetto> the funny things is that this same version was not sigsegv before ....
<slangasek> then my money is on libxml2
<norsetto> slangasek: ok, let me check
<norsetto> slangasek: there is a recent change for libxml2, but its just a rebuild
<dholbach> norsetto, slangasek: debian bug 439843 fixes my evolution crashing on startup (and other occurences of crashers with other gnome apps) - is http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/libxml2.debdiff OK for upload?
<ubotu> Debian bug 439843 in libxml2 "libxml2: Version 2.6.30.dfsg-1 breaks Azureus and evolution (until now)" [Critical,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/439843
<dholbach> (I just said that in #ubuntu-devel)
<dholbach> <dholbach> it seems to fix __xmlParserInputBufferCreateFilename() sort of crashers
<dholbach> norsetto: seems that doko already has an upload queued up with that fix
<norsetto> dholbach: ok, I was about to issue a bug report but I'll wait to see if that fixes it, thx
<dholbach> let's hope the upload is accepted soon
<dholbach> bug 147144 for reference
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 147144 in libxml2 "xslt:copy element is broken in 2.6.29" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147144
<mumbly> hi ... I would like to upload on REVU. Got a launchpad account and i'm a member of Ubuntu Universe Contributors team... Could you re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring as described on the REVU wiki page ? Thanx
<dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in #ubuntu-classroom in 10 minutes
<TheMuso> Is it just me, or has work been done on GNOME to make it perform better on older hardware?
<huats> morning all
<dholbach> hey thekorn, hey huats
<thekorn> hey dholbach
<dholbach> how's it going?
<pkern> mumbly: I would suggest you to wait until tomorrow. The keyring is automatically resynced during the European night.
<Hobbsee> revu isnt.
<Hobbsee> pkern: i'm assuming that's what you're meaning?
<pkern> Hobbsee: Uh, is it broken?
<Hobbsee> pkern: has been since the great canonical community machines loco stuff breakage.
<pkern> i.e. didn't siretart re-cron it? (Ok I didn't read exactly that, I only assumed it.)
<pkern> Heh.
<Hobbsee> he may well hvae done, he didnt mention it to me
<Hobbsee> if it still poitns to sparky, though...
<pkern> Ok. He's away now anyway.
<pkern> Ew. DNS does not respond.
<Hobbsee> dat not good.
<Hobbsee> right, so it must have moved machines then.
<Hobbsee> which means the cron is likely to supposed to be on
<pkern> Considering that tauware.de's DNS servers are all down, it's probably another problem.
<pkern> Yeah, back up (:
<Hobbsee> sorry, all i was saying was the the machine that it was on, si still up
<pkern> Still points to sparky.
<Hobbsee> so siretart should appear real soon now
<Hobbsee> oh, taht's interesting.
<Hobbsee> ah yes, must have been dns only, as i could ping sparky, by another address.
<Hobbsee> there we are.
<Hobbsee> siretart: cron resync hasnt been turned back on, has it?
<huats> asac:  sorry to bother you again with bug #138167, but is there something I can do about the last comment from pkern  ? (daniel told me to see that with you)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 138167 in gmail-notify "gmail-notify menu item tooltip is not HIG compliant" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138167
<pkern> huats: If he confirms that it's ok to call it iceweasel-torbuttom I'm ok with that.
<asac> bug 138167
<pkern> Wrong bug no ;)
<asac> ok ;)
<asac> huats: ?
<huats> asac:  sorry
<huats> bug #137513
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 137513 in torbutton "[UNMETDEPS]  torbutton: auto-synced, depends on iceweasel" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137513
<huats> that is the correct one
<asac> huats: since when do we have that package?
<huats> I think gutsy, let me check
<asac> huats: you could at least produce a binary package: torbutton-extension ... and provide a transitional package for iceweasel-torbutton
<asac> huats: did it ever build?
<asac> huats: if not, just rename the binary package name like above
<pkern> asac: It was uninstallable.
<pkern> asac: Due to the non-satisfyable iceweasel dep. Ever since.
<huats> it is installable right now, since I added a dependency on firefox too
<asac> huats: ok .. rename the binary package name then ... renaming the source is not needed for now.
<asac> yes, but its not in the archive
<asac> huats: i think that renaming just the binary is good, because then we will still get merges from debian et al.
<huats> ok so I rebuild it with anothr binary name
<huats> ok
<asac> yeah
<asac> please don't include the mozilla product name
<asac> thats bad in my personal opinion
<norsetto> mozilla is evil .....
<asac> e.g. torbutton-extension
<huats> ok
<asac> some might think different, but i don't see the real benefit of it
<asac> huats: could you verify wheteher app-install includes torbutton alreaedy?
<pkern> norsetto: Look at that:
<pkern> [troubadix]  ~ > aptitude search iceweasel|grep 'lightweight'
<pkern> i   iceweasel                       - lightweight web browser based on Mozilla
<pkern> Same for firefox, but not Ubuntu box reachable one SSH hop away.
<huats> asac: I will .... or I'll ask someone do to it for me, since I cannot at the moment upgrade to something higher that tribe4
<huats> asac: and if it includes it, I'll do my  best to change it
<asac> huats: why can't you upgrade?
<huats> asac: network connection problems...
<huats> asac: cannot do that at my company office (forbidde to plug my own computer) and no internet connection at home (I just moved)
<asac> yeah ... try to find someone to help out then :)
<dholbach> lucas: the version you depends on in your ubuntu-dev-tools patch is not in ubuntu yet
<dholbach> grrrrr, I was stupid enough to upload it
<dholbach> lucas: so you need the patch in debian bug 445144 for it to work?
<ubotu> Debian bug 445144 in reportbug "reportbug: please add support for Usertags: pseudo-headers" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/445144
<dholbach> Hobbsee: is bug 123414 fixed with your upload?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 123414 in reportbug "reportbug shouldn't unconditionally attempt to relay via fiordland" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123414
<dholbach> lucas: I'll back out the patch again :-/
<Hobbsee> dholbach: nope
<BugMaN> hi all
<huats> asac: in which package it might be present to be in the app-install ? is it app-install-data ?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: ok thanks
<amarillion> This is odd: if I do "fakeroot debian/rules binary", my new package builds just fine, but if I do "debuild -b -rfakeroot", I get a linker error.
<amarillion> Doesn't debuild simply call debian/rules binary? What is different?
<gnomefreak> dpkg-buildpackage -b -rfakeroot work?
<amarillion> trying... yes it does
<amarillion> but pbuilder doesn't work
<slangasek> the difference is that calling "fakeroot debian/rules binary" runs all targets under fakeroot, whereas debuild -b first calls debian/rules build and then calls fakeroot debian/rules binary
<amarillion> ok... so I guess that means my rules file is screwed up, because normally binary depends on build, right?
<slangasek> no
<slangasek> that is, it doesn't automatically mean it's a problem with the rules file
<amarillion> Ok, but if I do "fakeroot debian/rules clean" "debian/rules build" and "fakeroot debian/rules binary" it still works.
<amarillion> I'm thinking I must have two versions of a static library around
<asac> huats: yes
<asac> huats: let me check
<amarillion> I fixed it :) Indeed I had two version of liballegro
<amarillion> now the build consistently fails :p
<lucas> dholbach: that's mentioned in the LP bug report
<dholbach> lucas: yeah, apparently it was not obvious enough for me at that time of day
<lucas> :-)
<dholbach> but it'll be nice to have
<lucas> dholbach: if you can review the reportbug patch, maybe we could integrate it
<lucas> I didn't upload because I'm not a python expert, and prefered someone else to review it so late in the release cycle
<dholbach> lucas: the patch looks ok to me, I would somehow just have preferred it to be in upstream first
<dholbach> but maybe somebody else is more comfortable uploading it
<lucas> regarding reportbug's bug status, it's unlikely to happen really soon ...
<mok0> I need some advice for building a meta package
<dholbach> hrm
<mok0> Is is better to build it as a binary or a source package?
<dholbach> there is no 'OR' - you need the source package to build the binary from that
<mok0> dholbach: It's not that kind of binary I mean
<mok0> dholbach: It's the type where you create the directory in debian/ yourself
<dholbach> mok0: what do you mean then?
<dholbach> does       apt-get source meta-telepathy     help as an example?
<mok0> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Debian-Binary-Package-Building-HOWTO/
* mok0 looks at meta-telepathy
<broonie> mok0: Normally in Debian/Ubuntu a meta package is a package which depends on other packages in order to allow you to install a suite of packages as one.
<mok0> broonie: this one needs no dependencies. It only needs to run a maintainer script to modify /etc/profile
<mok0> meta-telepathy could do as a template...
<broonie> Like I say, that's not what people would normally call a meta package in Ubuntu.
<mok0> broonie: what would you call it?
<broonie> Just a package.
<mok0> broonie: Ah :-)
<mok0> Well, thanks, I think I can go on from here...
<mok0> In a maintainer script, can you count on grep and sed being there?
<Hobbsee> if they're priority essential, iirc yes
<mok0> They are, thx
* TheMuso kicks the itnernode mirror VERY VERY hard! Its been broken all damn day!
<TheMuso> internode even
<ScottK> Good morning all
<Hobbsee> hi ScottK
<ScottK> Hello Hobbsee.
<_MMA_> dholbach: Ubuntu likes to push the for art but it can be anything that fits the DFSG right?
<_MMA_> gah
<dholbach> _MMA_: what do you mean?
<_MMA_> *Ubuntu likes to push the CC-Share Alike ...
<_MMA_> (missed some text.)
<zul_> morning
<dholbach> _MMA_: if you use some dfsg license, that's cool
<mok0> Hello ScottK
<ScottK> hello mok0.
<_MMA_> dholbach: Ok. I thought I saw a preference from Ubuntu at one time. Just trying to clarify.
<dholbach> _MMA_: you can ask kwwii about that too
<_MMA_> dholbach: Yeah. I think he was a little unsure outside of CC-Share Alike as well. No big deal. Just making up rules for art submission on the wiki. ;)
<dholbach> _MMA_: for ubuntustudio?
<_MMA_> Specifically for us but I was wondering for Ubuntu as well as I am helping out somewhat there.
<_MMA_> dholbach: ie: Im working on the rules for Ubuntu Studio now but the question arouse days ago in #ubuntu-artwork and kwwii just mentioned CC-Share Alike. So I just needed to know if it applied to all Ubuntu projects. Guess not. :)
<dholbach> if you decide to use some other dfsg license, that's fine
<norsetto> hi scottk
<ScottK> Hi norsetto
* norsetto hugs Hobbsee (its a long time he didn't, so there)
<norsetto> dholbach: do you have the logs of this morning session somewhere?
<dholbach> norsetto: yes, in .xchat2/xchatlogs :)
<DarkMageZ> dholbach, hi. me from the libvisual-plugin patches. if you diffstat the diff file instead of the debdiff it gets a clean result. see, when i was unpacking the previous version, i removed debian's autotooling crud, which is now regenerated in 90_
<norsetto> dholbach: off!?
<dholbach> norsetto: I'll upload it in a sec
<dholbach> DarkMageZ: hm? I don't understand
<dholbach> DarkMageZ: I just don't understand why the debdiff is so big?
<DarkMageZ> dholbach, well, you see. 1ubuntu2 had autotool changes applied directly in the diff. so that was purged. then i've gone and made changes which make debians autotool stuff obsolete. then regenerated new useful copy into a patch aka 90_
<DarkMageZ> so the debdiff shows the removing of debian autotool cruft and a big patch which is the retooling.
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> can you add that information on the bug report?
<DarkMageZ> it's afew comments up i thought
<dholbach> oh ok
<dholbach> norsetto: http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/motu-qa.log
<DarkMageZ> dholbach, ah. i'll add a comment on that. looks like i only told persia on irc
<dholbach> ok great
<pkern> Yay@lool wants to become a MOTu, too. (:
<pkern> Uh, he has a canonical.com address.
<lucas> pkern: surprised? :P
<pkern> lucas: Difficult question. ;-)
<ScottK> Has he ever been here?  I don't recall seeing that nick.
<pkern> You don't have to be here to get MOTU? ;o) He attended the QA meeting.
<lucas> which QA meeting?
<lucas> ah you mean Q&A ?
<pkern> Yeah sorry.
<zul> pkern: damn what am i doing here then
<pkern> zul: It helps. ;)
<lucas> zul: pkern meant that the alternative solution is to get a job at canonical, probably ;)
<zul> that usually works
<pkern> lucas: DD bonus and some contacts with the MOTU council members could also be sufficient I guess. ;)
<ScottK> Speaking of MOTU Council...
<ScottK> dholbach: How goes the process for finding MC nominees?
<dholbach> ScottK: good, we passed a list on to TB and CC
<ScottK> Any timeline for them to pass on it?
<dholbach> I think the hardest part is done now
<dholbach> it won't be that long, I guess
<proppy> hi
<norsetto> dholbach: any idea whats wrong with this: Your message to:      ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com did not reach the following recipient(s): mubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com
<norsetto> hi proppy
<dholbach> norsetto: hu? weird
<dholbach> norsetto: any other message about it?
<norsetto> dholbach: never mind, got the bugger :-)
<dholbach> ok good
<norsetto> dholbach: copy link address in kde copies the mailto: too ....
<ScottK> norsetto: There should be an option to just copy the e-mail address (IIRC) - FYI for next time.
<norsetto> scottK: yes, copy email address (sorry about the typo)
<ScottK> Copy e-mail address should't include the mailto part.
<norsetto> ScottK: thats what I used but includes the mailto: too (not a big deal now that I know)
<ScottK> Odd.
<ScottK> What KDE application is this in?
<norsetto> its not a kde specific one, its thunderbird
<norsetto> scottK: do you know any idot?
<norsetto> s/idot/idiot
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> Yes, I know lots of idiots.  I'm even related to some.  Not sure why you ask?
* Hobbsee hugs norsetto back :)
* norsetto was worried :-)
<ScottK> norsetto: Have you tried using Kontact/Kmail?
<norsetto> ScottK: well, because I obviously did use copy link and not copy email address .....
<Hobbsee> lucas: they claim it doesnt happen that way.  who knows if htey're right.
<ScottK> norsetto: Ah.  Well we all do stuff like that now and then.
<norsetto> ScottK: yes, thats what I tried first but couldn't get the hand on it, so I passed to thunderbird
<ScottK> I see.
<ScottK> Depending on how much mail you deal with, you might find Thunderbird gets overwhelemed.
<lamont> StevenK: I forget which library it was... I'll go track it down
<norsetto> ScottK: its ok actually, better than evolution I must say (even though I miss the filters, guess there is an addon somewhere if I ever get round to search for it)
<ScottK> Kmail has pretty good filters.
<ScottK> IME anyway.
* ScottK didn't last more than about 5 minutes with Evolution.
<Hobbsee> norsetto: i was set as away :P
<_polto_> hello all
<norsetto> scottk: you know, I don't think I ever tried kmail, only kontact, I can't find any icon for it in the k-menu
<ScottK> norsetto: It's the Mail part of Kontact
<ScottK> Kubuntu doesn't give you a default way to get just Kmail.
<ScottK> hello _polto_.
<_polto_> hello
<_polto_> Fujitsu, hi. did you got my e-mail about mplayer patch and network cameras? I do not know if it is the good place here to discuss it, but we would be happy to see this patch applied by default on Ubuntu.
<lamont> norsetto: gnome-mplayer given-back
<norsetto> lamont: you mean the ftbfs?
<lamont> yeah
<norsetto> lamont: cool, was it libxms2?
<lamont> yeah
<lamont> libxml2
<norsetto> lamont: thx
<ScottK> _polto_: Last night (my time) he said: [19:51]  <Fujitsu> Oh dear, not mplayer patches :( - [19:51]  <Fujitsu> The mplayer codebase *suck*. - [19:52]  <Fujitsu> *sucks
<ScottK> _polto_: I'd say he knows.
<_polto_> :(
<_polto_> ok i tryed it out for several years now. it work.
<ScottK> _polto_: My advice is to stick around and speak with him directly.
<_polto_> ScottK, thanks
<leonel> hi ScottK !
<ScottK> hi leonel.
<ScottK> leonel: It's probably about time we did another Feisty clamav backport, don't you think?
<leonel> ScottK: would be  great
<ScottK> leonel: If you'd test it and file the backports bug, I'll ack it for you.
<leonel> ScottK: how  about use   ppa  to  keep a  the newest clamav  for   dapper edgy feisty  and  next  gutsy ?
<leonel> ScottK: ok
<zul> ScottK: the disksearch uvfe the patch is in their cvs i just checked
<ScottK> leonel: I'm not comfortable with the current PPA terms of service.  Generally backports is a better way to go where we can.
<ScottK> zul: I expected so.
<leonel> ScottK: ok
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Um, did I miss my induction into motu-uvf? (bug #148801)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 148801 in lyx "[UVFe]  lyx 1.5.0 -> 1.5.1" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148801
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Gah.  Sorry.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: For some reason (probaby still on my first cup of coffee) I did a StevenK/Fujitsu transposition in my head.  Thanks for pointing it out.
<Fujitsu> Heh, interesting.
<StevenK> How?
<StevenK> I can't spell Fujitsu with my name.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I'm sure you can make it fit somehow.
<ScottK> I tend to sort MOTU geographically in my head.
<Fujitsu> Yeah, darn Australians, all looking the same.
<ScottK> Don't worry to much about it.  It's a general mess in there.
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<_polto_> Fujitsu, hi
<Hobbsee> yeah, darn all those similarly looking australians with accents.
<_polto_> Fujitsu, i send you an e-mail about mplayer patch for openhardware network cameras.
<Fujitsu> _polto_: Hi.
<_polto_> Fujitsu, did you had some time to read it ?
<Fujitsu> I read it, haven't done much more than glanced at the patch yet.
<Fujitsu> Has upstream given any reason for not accepting it yet?
<_polto_> Fujitsu, no. I know well DonDiego, Alex and some other peoples from mplayer team. At least those who come to LinuxTAG. But they just did not applied it for 3 years now without any reason or critics.
<Fujitsu> _polto_: So this change is needed because of the high res of the images returned by your cameras?
<_polto_> yep
<bddebian> Heya gang
<norsetto> hya bddebian
<bddebian> Hello norsetto
<polto_> sorry, i was disconnected ..
<norsetto> scottK: dunno why I didn't like it, kmail seems nice
<polto_> Fujitsu, any idea of what i can do to promote the patch ?
<ScottK> norsetto: Cool.
<gameldar> heya all - I have a couple of questions about a fix I have for a bug I've found - given that I'm not a motu - am I in the right place?
<lamont> gameldar: discussing patches is always on-topic. sup?
* ScottK sits back and watches lamont seize control of MOTU...
<gameldar> lamont: bug #126314 - as I've added in the bug I've got a patch for it.. and would like to follow through the processes of submitting it for review etc
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 126314 in anjuta "Anjuta crashes on opening or creating a glade file" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126314
<gameldar> also in fixing that I've found a problem that hasn't been fixed upstream (actually I still need to check their svn repo)
<gameldar> I guess that second question is - is the normal process to file it as a bug upstream and wait for a fix to come through, or to create a patch via the debian patch mechanism?
<lamont> ScottK: I waited like 2 minutes before I said anything...
<zul> gameldar: i would send it upstream so that both debian and ubuntu can beenfefix
<zul> benefit even
<ScottK> lamont: Just having fun with you.
<lamont> gameldar: the preferred method is to file the bug at the top of the food chain (esp if it includes a patch), and then either poke the downstream distro(s) to pick up the patch directly, or not, depending on how bad the issue is and how soon a new upstream release is due out
<lamont> zul: your first spelling was more interesting. :-)
<zul> lamont: lack of caffine and too much asterix comics last night
<gameldar> lamont, zul: ok - thanks. In the case of anjuta gutsy is already a (stable) release behind
<lamont> gameldar: and it'll most likely stay that way, given that it releases this month.
<lamont> hardy will get whatever version is in sid.
<lamont> then.
<ScottK> gameldar: The process for inclusion in Ubuntu of your change is to prepare a debdiff for a new revision and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug.  Then a MOTU will look at it and perhaps upload it if they agree with it.
<gameldar> lamont, scottk: ok thanks. Just looking at the trunk version the bug still exists (its an abi change in libglade) - in which case previous versions will be linked to an older version of the appropriate library and won't be updated?
<lamont> IIUC, not until they're rebuilt (which may require source changes if there was a significant change)
<ScottK> gameldar: Do we have the new or old ABI in Gutsy?
<gameldar> scottk: we have the new one.
<ScottK> Then IMO the package should work with the new one as there's no guarantee it won't get rebuilt.
<ScottK> It that requires a source change, then we ought to get that in.
<gameldar> ok
<ScottK> Does that make sense?
<gameldar> yeah that makes sense - basically the two are dependent, if we fix the primary bug (what is listed - basically the glade plugin is not being compiled at the moment), then the second change also needs to happen.
<ScottK> Then do as I suggested above about a proper debdiff (ask here if you need help).
<gameldar> so - basically I would 1) file a bug with anjuta so that it'll eventually flow down stream. 2) fix the bugs for the ubuntu package.
<gameldar> the patch I need to make is following the debian patch mechanism though isn't it (i.e. a file in debian/patches) rather than just the diff on the original source?
<ScottK> gameldar: Does anjuta have a patch system in the pacakge already?
<gameldar> not currently, no
<ScottK> gameldar: If the package has a patch system, use it, but for a one liner like that it's not essential (in Ubuntu - Debian is different) that you use one.
<ScottK> Also, given we are ~ 2 weeks from release, deal with getting Ubuntu fixed first and file upstream later.
<gameldar> scottk: ok. I'm just looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources atm :)
<ScottK> gameldar: It's better to use a patch system, but not essential.  If you can add it, then great.  That's the right place to be looking.
<gameldar> scottk: Ok - I haved used dpatch before - but only with a package with an existing dpatch mechanism, so I'm not sure of the steps of setting it up from scratch. I guess regardless of the method here its the hooking it into the build that I haven't seen.
<lamont> ScottK: I probably shouldn't mention that I just transitioned my packages away from using a patch system, to using git. :-)
<ScottK> lamont: No.  You shouldn't.
<ScottK> ;-)
<ScottK> gameldar: More trouble than it's worth for a one liner, but man dpatch tells you want you need to do if you want to give it a shot.
<lamont> it's different when there's a good revision control system for the source...
<lamont> dpatch is probably better for most things
<lamont> the others are either more complex, or worse, or both.
* Hobbsee discovers that gweled has cool music now
* ScottK wonders what Hobbsee is doing discovering stuff about packages that start with 'g'?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it's a bejewelled replacement.  bejewelled rocks.
<lamont> ScottK: and dbs is _never_ the answer
<rexbron> hey all
<rexbron> Can debian/control's Section: key have more than one item?
<norsetto> rexbron: AFAIK no
<rexbron> ok
<DktrKranz> ScottK: have you some time for a question related to bug 57025 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 57025 in ivtools "uninstallable" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57025
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Sure
<DktrKranz> ScottK: thanks. I've a little doubt if this is relevant for feisty and gutsy.
<ScottK> lamont: In general I'm increasingly inclined to agree, but for packaging basic Python modules/apps CDBS actually works pretty well.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I'm not sure what you mean.  Is it fixed for Gutsy already?
<lamont> I didn't say cdbs.  _dbs_ is never the answer
<lamont> cdbs I have very mixed emotions about
<ScottK> Ah.  Right.  Agreed then.
<DktrKranz> ScottK: I'm not sure if this fix should be applied to Gutsy. IIRC, we only support upgrades from near releases (e.g. dapper => edgy) or LTS
<ScottK> DktrKranz: So upgrading from Feisty to Gutsy works?
<DktrKranz> yes
<ScottK> I'd call that fixed for Gutsy then.
<DktrKranz> that error only occours from dapper to edgy
<ScottK> OK.  That's the part that wasn't clear to me.
<DktrKranz> nice :)
<DktrKranz> so, I think feisty and gutsy target are not needed. should I close them?
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Done
<DktrKranz> ah, thanks :)
<ScottK> DktrKranz: You'll need a different version number though.
<ScottK> With the version number in your debdiff, Edgy would end up with a higher version number than Feisty.  Not good.
<DktrKranz> definitely!
<DktrKranz> what version number should I use in this cases?
<ScottK> Not sure.
<Hobbsee> DktrKranz: libvisual-plugins was used for amarok before, wasnt it?
<DktrKranz> Hobbsee: no idea, sorry :(
<ScottK> Any suggestions from the assembled crowd on how to version an SRU when the next release has the same version number?
<Hobbsee> oh, perhaps not.  perhaps we only intended it.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: er....anything remotely sane, that it wont get upgraded by the version above.
<Hobbsee> as in, the version above what's already there.
<Hobbsee> er, in proper enlgish
<Hobbsee> anything that doesnt make the next upload of the package in question fall over.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: at that point, i'd consider a nochange rebuild SRU for the package in the release above.
<ScottK> Right.
<DktrKranz> Hobbsee: sounds good
<Hobbsee> ScottK: because, really, you're screwed whatever you do - it's going to break an upgrade path, unless you bump all o fit.
<DktrKranz> probably that's the only solution we have...
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Additionally, even though we don't support Dapper -> Gutsy, we will support Dapper -> Hardy, so we might as well go ahead and deal with it.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: That's what I was afraid of.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: but i wouldnt expect that to require an entire SRU process for all of them.
<Hobbsee> unless it's a frankenstinean package
<DktrKranz> ScottK: since we should prepare a SRU for feisty too...at this point we can go on and include it
<DktrKranz> and fix it for gutsy as well
* ScottK changes his mind and says yes to changing Feist/Gutsy.
<ScottK> Yes.
<DktrKranz> so, we include it for hardy automatically
<ScottK> Ywes
<ScottK> Yes even
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Then what I'd do is call the Edgy version 1.0.1 and the Feisty version 1.1
<DktrKranz> it should be safe
<ScottK> That also then gives you head room for further changes if needed.
<DktrKranz> yes
* Hobbsee wonders why daniel wants to shove all the stuff in a patch
<Hobbsee> debian kde extras team tends to do that, and it usually has to be done each time the toolchain changes, it seems
* DktrKranz is looking at that FTBFS on gutsy...
<DktrKranz> ScottK, Hobbsee:if you agree, I'll reopen Feisty and Gutsy tasks including our "brainstorm session"
<Hobbsee> DktrKranz: i've no idea which bug you're talking about, but sure
<DktrKranz> so we can easily track down the whole thing
<pkern> ScottK: What was the version problem here?
<Hobbsee> pkern: releasex has version foo, release x+1 has version foo, and they want to do a SRU for version x.
<Hobbsee> pkern: which will then be higher, no matter waht it is, than version x+1
<pkern> For a problem which does not affect x+1? Yeah, ok.
<Hobbsee> pkern: yup
<Hobbsee> pkern: although it'd be weird that it wouldnt affect x+1, come to think of it...
<pkern> That's a nice corner case example. (:
<huats> pkern: regarding the iceweasel-torbutton pb, it has been decided to change the binary name to torbutton-extension (I don't know it you were here went we talked about that)
<pkern> huats: I was.
<pkern> huats: As said as soon asac ACKs it I'm ok with that.
<huats> pkern: ok, so sorry for duplicating the info
<pkern> I would probably have gone for firefox-torbutton, but well.
<pkern> huats: And you did also change the description?
<asac> huats: i am ok with the name
<huats> pkern: I tend to agree with asac
<huats> asac: I hope, it was you idea :-)
<huats> pkern: yes I also changed the description
<pkern> How is the icedove^Hthunderbird extension called?
<huats> pkern: I haven't changed that one...
<huats> it was not in the bug report... but I can
<pkern> Fun.
<huats> pkern: it is called icedove-torbutton
<pkern> And depends on icedove?
<pkern> That would be fun.
<huats> pkern: let me check
<pkern> The package in the archive does.
<pkern> Package icedove-torbutton version 1.0.4-2 has an unmet dep: Depends: icedove (>= 1.5.0.10.dfsg1-3)
<pkern> Yep.
<huats> I can also fix it...
<huats> the question is : how to call the binary :-)
<pkern> Same problem. How would you call it? I would rather not merge the two, as that diverges too much from Debian.
<asac> huats: is it a different extension?
<asac> huats: or just a duplicate?
<huats> asac: from my point of view it is a duplicate
<pkern> It's a duplicate, yes.
<pkern> Just different extensions dirs.
<huats> asac: so I can simply add a link....
<huats> and remove the second binary to simply have one ?
<pkern> And remove the dependencies on thunderbird and firefox not to pull the other one in if one doesn't want it?
<huats> pkern: you mean to a dependency on firefox or thunderbird
<huats> ?
<huats> pkern: you mean to have a dependency on firefox or thunderbird, not necesseraly both... right ?
<pkern> Yep.
<huats> I can do that :-)
* pkern is now away.
<huats> asac: your opinion ?
<gameldar> ok... I have my debdiff now... should the requestsponsor script work in gutsy?
<gameldar> ack - I can't see any more.. I'll have to leave that till tomorrow ... seeya all
<YokoZar_> I want to rebuild the ia32-libs package...what's the best way to do this?  It needs to have freshened packages and also have libssl0.9.8 added
<ScottK> jdong: Just so you know...  I see that you've disapproved Postfix backports in the past.  I just disagreed and backported Postfix 2.4.5 to Dapper.  Postfix upgrades are about the safest thing there is because of the care Weitse Venema puts compatibility between releases.  The fact that lamont's packaging is good helps too.
<YokoZar_> ScottK: I've almost got another Wine package ready
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Once it's ready ask \sh to look at it and if he's cool I'll upload it for you.
<jdong> ScottK: the only reason I disapproved is that it tends to be one of those things that WILL get security updates in the future, but when that ahppens the package may no longer backport, and backports overrides -security, and I get everyone chasing after me with flaming pitchforks :)
<asac> pkern: the right way to do that is to ship the extension in /usr/share/torbutton-extension ... and then add links to the thunderbird and firefox direcoty
<YokoZar_> ScottK: Right now I need to add libssl0.9.8 to ia32-libs first though, as Wine needs it.
<lamont> ScottK: you made core-dev?
<jdong> ScottK: but if you feel comfortable with doing it, I've got no objections
<asac> pkern: (if you haven't figured out)
<asac> pkern: of course only if the extension is the same for both
<asac> ;)
<lamont> (/me doesn't pay that much attention to such tings)
<ScottK> lamont: No.  For a no-change backport it's not required.  Only for source backports with changes.
<lamont> oh.  somewhere in my head, I think I moved wine to main for a minute
<jdong> lamont: hahahahaha
<jdong> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
* jdong holsd his sides in pain
<ScottK> Twich
<lamont> yeah
<ScottK> twitch even
<lamont> brainfart.  my bad
<jdong> lamont: I supposed you missed automatix-by-default too right?
* jdong ducks :D
<ScottK> Wine in Main is scary enough I couldn't even spell twitch correctly.
<lamont> jdong: to date, the only security patches to postfix are dealing with ssl libraries being bad
<jdong> lamont: ok, I feel better then :) I've just managed to dig myself into too many holes with that :)
* keescook shivers at the thought of wine in main
<Hobbsee> oh, shudder.
<leonel> ScottK:  so  how the  security updates for backports  are handled ?  Like  any other package in MOTU or  there's need to ask for a new backport ?
<keescook> best emulator ever: runs viruses perfectly!
<ScottK> leonel: New backport.
<YokoZar_> ScottK: So, that's the exact idea I'm going to propose for UDS :)
<leonel> ScottK: ok thanks
<lamont> jdong: and Wietse is probably the most pedantic person I've seen about putting fixes into a stable release.  Of course, that means nothing, since dapper has 2.2 and the backport is for 2.4
<ScottK> YokoZar_: Good luck with that
<ScottK> Right, but for Postfix an upgrade 2. anthing to 2.4 is a safe thing to do.
<jdong> leonel: backport a fixed version, or (worst case scenario) source change patch uploaded by core-dev approved by -archive
<jdong> leonel: the latter case can be scarring :)
<lamont> jdong: there's also the interesting(???) fact that -security does not look at either -updates or -backports when doing the build
<YokoZar_> ScottK: We don't have to support any actual Wine apps, just have a standardized stable Wine version for others to target.
<ScottK> I say again.... Good luck with that.
<jdong> lamont: it's good that it doesn't look at -backports, but -updates can be worrisome?
<YokoZar_> :)
<lamont> jdong: IOW, if LP won't let you upload a version of source that is >> -security and << -backports, it's a launchpad bug
<lamont> foo-security is foo+foo-security. period.
<lamont> foo-updates is less restrictive on what can get into it.
<lamont> for the truly retentive, -security is
<lamont> everything _else_ should be looking at foo+foo-security+more
<lamont> I think the ogre model for that _should_ be: foo -> foo-security -> foo-updates -> foo-backports
<lamont> that is, everything listed includes everything before it on the list
<pochu> ScottK, Hobbsee, soren: mind looking at bug 144258 when you have a minute? Thanks :-)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144258 in scribes "[UVFe]  Please sync scribes (universe) 0.3.2.9-1 from Debian Unstable (main)" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144258
<ScottK> jdong: Next on the list is Samba.
<jdong> ScottK: come on, samba is not NEARLY as predictable in backportability.... and security patches are fairly common. at least 1 or 2 per release cycle.
<man-di> lamont: OT: How often do you process mails that request changes to srcdep/Packages-arch-specific in Debian?
<ScottK> jdong: Right.  That's why I'm not going to do it unless the ubuntu-server team stands behing keeping it up to date.
<lamont> man-di: almost every time I get one... well, maybe more like 80% :-)
<lamont> why
<lamont> ?
<ScottK> behing/behind
<jdong> ScottK: agreed
<man-di> lamont: I send you a request to remove charva from that list some time ago
<lamont> ah...
* lamont goes looking
<lamont> man-di: I don't seem to have the email
<lamont> what was the request?
<man-di> lamont: charva is currently only i386 but it should build on any arch
<man-di> so it needs to be removed afaik
<ScottK> pochu: Ack'ed.  I'm easy.
<pochu> ScottK: It was easy :-) Thanks a lot.
<lamont> man-di: so it doesn't depend on j2sdk1.3 any more, eh? (comment in PaS)
<lamont> man-di: committed
<pkern> asac: And depend on what_
<asac> pkern: at best we would have links to _all_ known apps: thunderbird/icedove/iceweasel/firefox ... then natuarally depend on
<bddebian> I have a dumb user question. :-)  Whats the best way to grab screenshots in gnome?
<asac> firefox | thunderbird | iceweasel | icedove
<pkern> asac: With the intention to get it into Debian that way?
<asac> eases sharing of code ... yes
<zul> bddebian: Application->Accesories
<asac> suggest debian maintainer to use our scheme ... then contribute to debian and synch
<man-di> lamont: it depends on free runtimes now
<man-di> lamont: thanks
<lamont> man-di: ah, ok
<minghua> bddebian: or "gnome-screenshot"
<pkern> asac: Are we allowed to put out-of-archive depends in place in Debian?
<bddebian> zul: Thanks.  Is there a keyboard combination to do it?
<minghua> bddebian: printscreen?
<zul> not that i know of
<lamego> bddebian, ALT - PRINT SCREEN
<lamego> for the window
<bddebian> Ah, like Windows.  Thanks folks!
<asac> pkern: i hope so ... as long as the depends can be fullfilled i don't see an issue with having non-existing depends
* ScottK was going to say like KDE, but whatever.
<sladen> bddebian: the printscreen button.  Or I tend to use the gimp for editing and more complicated shots (eg. when a menu is open and the keypress would be ignored)
<asac> pkern: i do it for enigmail as well
<pkern> asac: Ok, then it sounds reasonable. (:
<asac> pkern: if the extension is already compatible with firefox-3.0 we should install it there as well
<YokoZar_> So there's a bug in gnome-screenshot: tell it to grab current window with a delay of 0, and it'll grab the whole desktop.
<AstralJava> Howdy Masters! :) A question, if you may, on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowTo there is a section that describes universe support, but then actually talks about Debian (and etch). Was just wondering, is this by accident?
<lamont> AstralJava: it looks  like it's telling you how to do universe, oh, and also debian.
<lamont> it might want to be more explicit about that though
<AstralJava> lamont: Well, yeah. :)
<AstralJava> lamont: Okay, but the COMPONENTS=... part is enough to enable all the other repos?
<lamont> uh... it's not like I actually _use_ pbuilder...
<ScottK> AstralJava: There is a pbuilder-dist script in ubuntu-dev-tools for Gutsy that is pre-set to work with Universe.
<AstralJava> ScottK: Okay, thanks! :)
<ScottK> AstralJava: You have to rename the script to the dist you want e.g. pbuilder-gutsy.
<frafu> Hello everybody. I have been asked by the developer of a package, whether I would be interested in becoming the maintainer of it. I have a personal interest in that package, but does not know what being maintainer involves.
<frafu>  One point is certain: I don't have all the necessary knowledge required currently. I have already built a simple debian package for ubuntu a few times, but probably not with all Ubuntu requirements). I have never applied a patch, but several years ago, I did a little C programming, from which I only remember little things.
<frafu> What would you advise me: Should I accept?
<frafu> Would it make sense to accept, hoping to learn the required skills along the way?
<frafu> If I should accept, how will I become the maintainer. Is this a decision of the developer himself? Will he have to specify it on launchpad where the project is hosted?
<ScottK> frafu: In Ubuntu we do team maintenance, so I'm not sure what you are asking.
<ScottK> Do you mean upstream maintainer of the actual program or maintainer of the Ubuntu packaging for it?
<minghua> frafu: My question is, what do you mean by "become the maintainer of it"?  To maintain the package in Ubuntu?
<frafu> I don't know myself
<frafu> there is no upstream yet for that package as it has been developed for ubuntu during this gsoc
<ScottK> Ah.  What package?
<frafu> Are you talking only about main or also about universe?
<ScottK> Both.
<ScottK> In Main and Universe we all have different packages we tend to focus on, but it's a group effort.
<minghua> Now I'm interested.  Which package indeed?
<frafu> https://launchpad.net/mousetweaks/
<frafu> In other words, if I get you right that package needs a general maintainer and a maintainer specific for ubuntu..
<minghua> Hmm.  Aren't you suppose to have an mentor for GSoC project?
<frafu> I am not the developer; as I wrote most of the spec and communicated with him during the development, he asked me whether I would be interested in becoming the maintainer; but the developer himself does not really know what it requires.
<frafu> minghua: gsoc is over.  should it nevertheless be the mentor to look for it to get into ubuntu?
<minghua> frafu: Sorry I don't know much about GSoC procedure either.  Can't help you here.
<minghua> frafu: IIRC the mentor is supposed to write a report.
<lamego> frafu,  if you want to be a package maintainer you just need to follow the official processes as for any other universe packaging :)
<lamego> there is no other formal requirement, as far as I know
<frafu> lamego: by submitting it to revu, will I automatically become maintainer of the package (with the help of others).
<lamego> well, this depends on your definition for maintainer, if I upload a package, and don't care about it anymore, I am just an uploader :)
<minghua> frafu: As ScottK said, in Ubuntu packages are team maintained.  The concept of "maintainer" doesn't really exist.
<lamego> a maintainer is expected to "maintain", like keeping it updated, etc etc :)
<frafu> ok; once it is accepted a team will do the necessary to package it for ubuntu. And now, what about being the upstream maintainer? Is this a decision of the developer alone?
<frafu> Does he have to specify it on the page on launchpad, where it is hosted?
<ScottK> frafu: It is the decision of the developer alone.  I have no idea what LP changes are needed for that.
<frafu> Thanks for your help: so  "maintainer" is a concept that varies from package to package and there is no specific rule for it.
<ScottK> Right.
<frafu> ScottK: but it is possible to set a specific maintainer in launchpad?
<ScottK> Upstream decides whatever they decide.
<ScottK> frafu: I have no idea.
<lamego> frafu, on Debian there is a package maintainer concept, someone which follows upstream changes
<ScottK> I don't maintain any code in Launchpad myself.
<lamego> on Ubuntu, a maintainer, can be a "real" maintainer, or just someone which checks random software from time to time
<frafu> ScottK: so, I will have to talk to the author and see with him...
<frafu> lamego: so there is not a real policy of following if there are changes upstream in ubuntu. (I can imagine that it is not necessary with the 6 months release cycle)
<ScottK> frafu: Generally we get stuff from Debian and automatically sync from them.
<frafu> Do you also get gnome through debian, or directly from gnome?
<ScottK> frafu: Dunno.  I think some of both, but I'm a KDE person.
<lamego> gnome is main, probably whoever maintains does it both ways, but is just a guess
<ScottK> lamego: Not all of it.
<minghua> I believe there is close collaboration between Debain GNOME maintainers and Ubuntu's GNOME team.
<ScottK> KDE is the same way.
<ScottK> That's how it is in KDE.
<frafu> What about packages that are not part of gnome and  debian; do they have a special policy or are updates simply ignored until the next release?
<lamego> frafu, only critical and security bugfxies are applied after releases
<minghua> frafu: We don't have many packages that aren't in Debian.
<minghua> Either we sync/merge from Debian, or we push our packages back to Debian (and sync from there afterwards).
<lamego> frafu, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<frafu> So universe also comes from debian? (i assumed it was not the case)
<lamego> frafu, most packages yes, not all
<frafu> Do you also push packages to gnome? I suppose that mousetweaks, the package that I have in mind would rather belong to gnome.
<lamego> frafu, pushing packages into gnome ?
<frafu> yes?
<zul> frafu: submitting patches to gnome yes
<lamego> gnome does not provide packages :) It provides source ;)
<bddebian> Hmm, I can't get a screenshot of full-screen alien-arena :-(
<frafu> Does this mean that gnome provides packages without debian dir, while debian also includes debian directories?
<zul> frafu: yes
<frafu> So Ubuntu does not push source packages to gnome?
<ScottK> No
<lamego> frafu, packages and source have no relation, source is provided by upstream authors, packages (/debian) are provided by maintainer
<lamego> frafu, Ubuntu, pushes patches, into gnome source
<lamego> Ubuntu, uses and changes source from 3rd parties, it only provides for a few packages which are created by the Ubuntu developers
<lamego> uff, 3 crashes in 2 hours, not a great sign for Gutsy
<frafu> many thanks for all the explanations and especially for inside that you gave me about what happens behind the scenes. Maybe somebody from the documentation team should add it to the wiki packages about packaging.
<frafu> I have to leave now. Bye
<bluefoxicy> http://www.bibi.org/box/2004/agosto/firefox_plush_toy.jpg  I want one of these
<bluefoxicy> :|
<bluefoxicy> and the bug on mozilla hasn't gotten any attention
<ScottK> frafu: It's a wiki.  Anyone (meaning YOU) can add to it.
<zul> well you are complaining in the wrong channel
<ScottK> zul: I doubt any other channel is likely to be more effective ;-)
<zul> ScottK: true but I had to comment i think the mozilla team has their channel
<ScottK> IIRC they do, but I'm bitter today.
<zul> ScottK: im just moody
<ScottK> Cool.  Bitter and Moody.  Sounds like a good day for UVFe review.
<zul> only when i get home
<zul> or when i wake up a bit
<ScottK> But you might be in a better mood then and where's the fun in that?
<zul> heh
<minghua> bddebian: Is that a game on top of X?  If yes, maybe you can try xwd.
<minghua> bluefoxicy: I am pretty sure that toy was sold on mozilla.org store before.
<bddebian> minghua: I'll try that, thx
<AstralJava> Does anyone have a bit of time to help me find out what's wrong with my approach, I've got some stuff online @ http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/39690/ and basically the problem is that pbuilder doesn't make use of my local file repo that I created according to pbuilder user manual @ http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/software/pbuilder-doc/pbuilder-doc.html
<geser> AstralJava: how do make /var/cache/pbuilder/result available inside the chroot?
<pkern> AstralJava: Of course you did the dpkg-scanpackages stuff?
<pkern> geser: pbuilder uses bindmounts
<geser> pkern: automatically? cool
<pkern> geser: Semi. Look at http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/software/pbuilder-doc/pbuilder-doc.html#usingspecialaptsources
<AstralJava> Good grief!! Where has it dropped out of?!
* AstralJava goes away grumbling....
<pkern> :-P
<bddebian> Heya geser
<geser> Hi bddebian
<lamego> is there any advantage on using pbuilder versus sbuild ?
<pkern> sbuild is a bloody piece of software.
<geser> easier to setup?
<lamego> I found sbuild easier to setup
<pkern> Take cowbuilder. Just as fast and you don't have screwed up chroots.
<lamego> I don't have screwed chroots, there is the end-session command for such cases :)
<pkern> Very bad example (don't try this at home): A hostile build system does rm -rf ${BUILD}/ -- but BUILD is unset. This will basically wipe your chroot. With cowbuilder it's just a copy of another one, no problem. With sbuild you are screwed.
<AstralJava> Alright, thanks for correcting me :) However, the problem persists, and the culprit I think is that it ignores the ./ Packages file, as it says. Here's the updated online stuff, if it matters... http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/39691/
<geser> AstralJava: can you add a "ls -l /var/cache/pbuilder/result" to the hook to see if the dir contains the expected content?
<AstralJava> geser: Sure thing, gimme a sec.
<pkern> I want to see the content of /var/cache/pbuilder/result/Packages (and this somehow depends on the content geser looks for)!
* pkern hopes that AstralJava put the BINDMOUNTS thing into pbuilderrc...
<AstralJava> pkern: Yes, I did. :) However, you are on to something. It cannot find anything at that location.
<geser> reminder: MOTU meeting
<geser> in 30 minutes
<pkern> geser: Oh.
<pkern> geser: Topic list is appreciated! (And don't point me to the wiki. ;)
<AstralJava> Okay, I had done a mistake, and commented out BINDMOUNTS in my ~/.pbuilderrc, thinking that it was in global one, which wasn't the case. Now it finds stuff again, but still insists on ignoring ./ Packages
<pkern> La la la
<bddebian> la la la laaaaaa
<lamego> pkern, where is that rm -rf BUILD code with an unset var ?
<pkern> lamego: I am bad at pondering examples. Point is that I already had that the sbuild chroot was left in an inconsistent state.
<pkern> Due to some postinst screwing up.
<geser> pkern: the wiki lists only "sponsored merge workflow" and the usual fixed items for todays meeting
<pkern> geser: Thought that@merge workflow.
<pkern> How sensible is this to discuss on IRC. Heh. Anyway I don't think I should attend, due to that bloody exam tomorrow.
<lamego> pkern, probably because you didn't knew how to use it, lvm snapshots and file based schroots created copies, it is not possibled to get an inconsistent schroot because you never use the original
<lamego> directory based schroots, are just pointers, plain chroots
<geser> pkern: exams on a saturday?
<pkern> Well it was yonks ago.
<pkern> geser: Aye.
<geser> pkern: good luck
<pkern> geser: Thanks. I'm entirely not confident.
<AstralJava> Hmpf! It wasn't ignoring said file after all (even though it says so), it just needed another dependency package I had somehow overlooked.
<AstralJava> Thanks to everyone who helped with this. :) I really was in need of a reality check it seems. :)
<AstralJava> Okay, the FreezeExceptionProcess page mentions to attach an install log along with the bug, what does this really mean?
<ScottK> AstralJava: Copy/paste what you get in the console when you install it.
<norsetto> AstralJava: just copy and paste the install messages from your terminal
<ScottK> Show that it installs.
<ScottK> Mentioning what testing you've done to see that it works is always nice too.
<AstralJava> ScottK: norsetto: Thank you. :)
<ScottK> No prolbem.
<ScottK> problem even
<norsetto> scottK: perhaps it is worth expanding the wiki page on that ...
<ScottK> norsetto: Feel free.
* norsetto just volunteered himself (idot :-))
<Joe_CoT> hey, what project would i report a bug against for a bug in deluge? The deluge project don't use bugs
<osmosis> if I want to know more about how a package is put together, what files do I look at ?
<ScottK> Joe_CoT: If that package is in Ubuntu, report it against deluge in Ubuntu.
<pkern> ScottK: Install logs are an Ubuntu invention. I guess they result out of a specific event? ;)
<ScottK> pkern: I'm reletively new here (in the last 10 months) so I don't know all the history.
<ScottK> I think asking for evidence that the new version is installable is reasonable.
<AstralJava> I'm very new with these things, and I must say it is certainly reasonable to ask that I do that. Makes perfect sense. :)
<osmosis> ScottK: you can ask all you want.
<osmosis> ScottK: new version of what ?
<ScottK> osmosis: Sure and if I don't get it, the requestor doesn't get their UVFe approved.  Fine with me.
<ScottK> osmosis: It's for the UVF exception request.
<pkern> Well, probably I am biased because I do rebuilds etc. for Debian sponsorships anyway (i.e. I have to do them). So you depend entirely on the submitter of the debdiff here.
<osmosis> ScottK: im new in the last 10 minutes.  Whats a UVFe ?
<pkern> Probably reasonable considering the amount of packages we manage here.
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> osmosis: Upstream Version Freeze exception request.
<osmosis> ive just been a ubuntu user so far. Im interested in how packages work though.
<osmosis> ScottK: yah,..those must be confirmed. Distro stability depends on it.
<norsetto> osmosis: you may want to check these out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU & https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<Joe_CoT> ScottK: found the bug. Thanks :D
<osmosis> norsetto: for example, i heard that the xen kernel used in ubuntu has a bunch of custom patches. How would I see what these patches are ?
<Joe_CoT> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/deluge-torrent/+bug/149050
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149050 in deluge-torrent "Deluge torrent client: Cannot set file priority, as it continually claims that Full Allocation is not set" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<Joe_CoT> The submitter suggests updating to 5.5 from 5.4 to resolve the bug. What are the odds of that happening at this point?
<norsetto> osmosis: you should check out the source package and changelog
<osmosis> norsetto: all i know is  apt-get install xen-hypervisor-3.1   ...how do I check out the source package and changelog ?
<norsetto> osmosis: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xen-3.1 and to get the source: apt-get source xen-3.1
<norsetto> osmosis: just in case you have a problem with these links, just delete the "edge" from them
<imbrandon> ahh finaly
<geser> somebody interested in a MOTU meeting now?
<amarillion> Is there a way to target a package to multiple releases at the same time, e.g. "libalfont-dev (1.91-0ubuntu1~ppa3) feisty, gutsy; urgency=low" ?
<ScottK> amarillion: Ask in #launchpad. This is not a PPA help channel.
<geser> amarillion: no
<norsetto> amarillion: no
<amarillion> ok :)
<DktrKranz> did anybody notice a failure like debian 441490 ?
<ubotu> Debian bug 441490 in ivtools "ivtools - FTBFS: stl_algobase.h:226:56: error: macro "min" passed 3 arguments, but takes just 2" [Serious,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/441490
<AstralJava> bug 145538 now has lots of stuff to counter the unmetdeps problem of wammu
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145538 in wammu "[UNMETDEPS]  wammu has unmet dependencies (dup-of: 144488)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145538
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144488 in wammu "gutsy wammu dependency problem" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144488
<AstralJava> Ouch, sorry I didn't catch it was a dupe already.
<fraco> do universe bug reports also go to bugs.launchpad.net?
<persia> fraco: Yes.
<fraco> k thnx
<bddebian> persia!
<persia> bddebian!
<blueyed> Hi.
<norsetto> bddebian: persia: !!
<blueyed> Is there a script to adjust debian/control according to the DebianMaintainerField spec?
<geser> blueyed: yes
* pkern wants to know that, too!
<geser> update-maintainer from ubuntu-dev-tools (gutsy)
* blueyed cannot find ubuntu-dev-tools
<geser> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools/
<blueyed> omg. I've just moved my sources.list file away to test a bugfix. *lol*
<bddebian> persia: Haven't seen you on IRC much lately??
<persia> bddebian: I came down with life, but I'm recovering.
<bddebian> Heh, I hear ya man
<superm1> hi persia, long time no see :)
<persia> superm1: Hi
<superm1> persia, last time i remember talking to you on irc was before i was MOTU :)
<persia> superm1: Yep.
<superm1> persia, you back for the rest of the bug fixing cycle, or joining again for hardy?
<persia> superm1: I'll be around for some of the remainder, and for Hardy.
<superm1> persia, you joining for UDS too?
<persia> superm1: I won't be able to make it to Boston, but I'll be virtually around some.
<superm1> cool
<bluefoxicy> minghua:  yes, it was.  It's no longer sold there.
<bluefoxicy> minghua:  it's mozilla.org bug #322367
<blueyed> geser: update-maintainer is great. I've updated the wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField?action=diff)
<pkern> blueyed: update-maintainer, not update-notifier
<blueyed> thx pkern. fixed.
<AstralJava> ScottK: Hi, and thanks for ACKing the bug! However I just realized that using requestsponsor script requires an MTA locally, and I don't have one. How to proceed? By PPAPUT?
<ScottK> AstralJava: What are you trying to do with the request sponsor script?
<ScottK> I think what you want is requestsync.
<norsetto> good night all
<AstralJava> ScottK: Ahh... I'm confused now, I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere. :) Can you explain more? What I want is someone to re-sync python-gammu from debian unstable.
<ScottK> AstralJava: In ubuntu-dev-tools there is a requestsync script.  Use it with the -s option to request a sponsor for a sync.
<AstralJava> ScottK: So.... something like: requestsync -s python-gammu_0.22-2 gutsy
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> But no need to file that until you have your UVFe approved.
<AstralJava> Alright, well the FreezeExceptionProcess only mentioned that one ACK, so I thought it'd be alright. :)
<ScottK> No, when it's approved it'll get set to "Confirmed."
<AstralJava> Okay, yeah, the Exception bug that you marked invalid for the time being, and it will be marked as "Confirmed" if it can be synced?
<persia> How frozen is universe currently?  Does UserInterfaceFreeze mean I shouldn't add a gksu to a .desktop file?  Are approvals required for crash fixes?
<slangasek> persia: universe is now completely frozen, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-October/000345.html
<slangasek> that means anything that's uploaded has to be hand-approved, and the only things that will be are bugfixes
<persia> slangasek: Ah.  Thanks.
<persia> slangasek: I'm a little confused about the timing of the freeze.  Should https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule be updated to show a ReleaseFreeze in week 24?  The freeze your mail describes appears to match the freeze for week 25, unless I'm misreading something.  (And no, I don't propose the freeze be changed, just the documentation).
<slangasek> persia: I do think that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule is a little unclear about this (since this is my first time through an Ubuntu release I had to piece my own answer to that question together from a few different sources), but I also don't see the freeze you're talking about listed in week 25?
<persia> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCandidate : "From here until..."
<slangasek> anyway, it's intended that there be a full freeze a week before the release candidate; which means yesterday, but it was pushed back a day to keep the release team's hands free from having to approve a bunch more packages
<persia> slangasek: On the other hand, I don't see a (slightly) softer freeze for the RMs to manage getting everything smooth before the RC, so I'm not sure it's not better to have a week 24 freeze.
<slangasek> persia: ok, sure.  The difference between the current freeze, and what's listed under ReleaseCandidate, is that the fixes allowed right now aren't just showstoppers
<persia> slangasek: there's a rule that only release managers are allowed to change the schedule.  Would you mind putting a note there to indicate this freeze (which is probably good).
<bicchi> I would like to know if Gutsy is going to upgrade its version of mono to 1.2.5.1 before been released?
<persia> bicchi: It's very unlikely.  Version 1.2.4-6ubuntu4 just went in recently.
<slangasek> bicchi: it is distinctly not going to
<slangasek> persia: I'll try to figure out what the freeze should be called in discussion with the release team and get something updated, yes
<persia> slangasek: Thanks.
<bicchi> By the looks of it the current version of mono in gutsy is a bit outdated. OpenSuse came out with the 1.2.5. Does anyone knows of a repository that has the packages up to date?
<Fujitsu> Um, did the entire archive just freeze without any kind of notice that it was going to happen, or did I miss the announcement?
<lamego> slangasek> anyway, it's intended that there be a full freeze a week before the release candidate; which means yesterday, but it was pushed back a day to keep the release team's hands free from having to approve a bunch more packages
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.
<slangasek> Fujitsu: yes, the lack of notice was entirely my fault
<Fujitsu> In every previous release, universe has been unfrozen until like 24 hours before.
<persia> I'd argue this is a good way to do it, but the notice means I won't spend the weekend the way I might otherwise have.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-06
<slangasek> Fujitsu: I had notes telling me there was supposed to be an advance warning of the impending freeze, but I was counting down from the wrong point and didn't notice it until the day of the freeze itself (today) :/
<osmosis> how come I dont see a Xen team listed ?
<Fujitsu> osmosis: ubuntu-xen
<osmosis> Fujitsu: where ?
<Fujitsu> osmosis: On Launchpad.
<osmosis> Fujitsu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams
<Fujitsu> Xen is special and not entirely universe, so probably doesn't have a page.
<Fujitsu> And the wiki is woefully out of date in places.
<pochu> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-xen
<Fujitsu> slangasek: When did the release schedule change
<Fujitsu> *?
<Fujitsu> Well, actually, I guess the final freeze isn't marked...
<slangasek> yeah, that's the problem
<persia> Fujitsu: It's hidden under "ReleaseCandidate"
<slangasek> except the freezing mentioned under ReleaseCandidate is still different
<Fujitsu> ReleaseCandidate says that after it only showstoppers. But nothing about ReleaseCandidateFreeze, hm...
<Fujitsu> (and it should probably be clarified that it now applies to universe too)
<persia> Certainly that.  Freezes applying to Universe are fairly new (Excepting UVF and New Packages).
<slangasek> well, in practice the BetaFreeze "applied" to Universe in that packages had to be hand-approved
<slangasek> doesn't mean there was much review of them along the way
<Fujitsu> That has always been regarded as a Soyuz limitation.
<Fujitsu> It was a given that packages would be waved through without checking.
<persia> slangasek: But it specifically says in BetaFreeze that the freeze is lifted after BetaRelease.
<DktrKranz> slangasek, must MOTUs stop to upload packages and wait for an ack from RC team or they simply do as usual and RC will review them by hand?
<slangasek> DktrKranz: the latter
<DktrKranz> ok, thanks
<DktrKranz> anyway, I think there should be an accurate selection before uploading a package in ordert to avoid high loads for RC. Am I wrong?
<persia> Now I'm confused.  I thought that we were only to work on specific release-relevant bugs, rather than doing as usual.
<Fujitsu> persia: As usual, as opposed to asking for prior RM approval.
<slangasek> persia: I'm requesting clarification from veteran members of the release team.  the notes I'm going from don't distinguish between universe and main and so I also didn't distinguish in my mail, but it's entirely plausible to me that it's not meant to apply to universe
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Right.
<Fujitsu> Aha. Yay for lack of documentation!
<persia> slangasek: OK.  Thanks.  I'll prep stuff as if it would be applied then (pending resolution).
<slangasek> persia: ok, it's intended that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-c29dbda80b94dddd19d454dc8f454fcadc6b3302 applies, which means that even though the archive is "frozen", we'll give only a passing review to universe uploads.  Sorry for the confusion.
<persia> slangasek: That makes more sense.  Thanks.  No worries on the confusion: I've been away for around three months, so carry a fair amount of uncertainty returning.
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Aha, thanks for the clarification.
<slangasek> do you think a follow-up email is warranted, or will word-of-mouth take it from here?
<persia> slangasek: You're probably safe.  People who want to upload will likely check here if there are questions.
<slangasek> ok, cool
<DktrKranz> thanks for clarifying that
<Fujitsu> Might be an idea to stick something in the topic of either here or #ubuntu-devel.
<persia> It still needs manual (if light) review by the Release Team, so in a sense, it is frozen anyway.  Perhaps in /topic here, but in -devel?
<TheMuso> pochu: Thanks for doing minutes, not that there was much to cover. :)
<pochu> TheMuso: hehe, true that :-)
<persia> TheMuso: Hi.  I wanted to ask about ubuntustudio-desktop as a dependency of ubuntustudio-*.
<TheMuso> persia: Yes, we don't want that either, we were trying to get things straightened out for disks, but I've just uploaded a new meta to remove that.
<persia> TheMuso: Ah...  Cool.  I was just confused.
<minghua> Should new upstream version upload of a package already in archive use REVU?
<persia> minghua: If you need UVFe, it should be in an alternate repository (REVU is a good example of such a repository).
<minghua> persia: Not my package.  Just a question about the general policy.  I'll take that as a yes, thanks.
<persia> minghua: More generally then, before UVF, it just gets uploaded.  After UVF, it needs to be somewhere for review.
<minghua> persia: But non-MOTU can still upload to REVU for review, right?
<persia> minghua: Sure (although I'm not sure what the answer will be after UDS).
<minghua> BTW is there any REVU admin around?  My account seems to be removed after the move.
<minghua> (...or should I upload a package, therefore create an account, then bother the admins to add privilege for me?)
<persia> minghua: I don't appear to be a REVU admin anymore, but what are you trying to accomplish?
<minghua> persia: Just add a comment.
<minghua> Not urgent at all, obviously.
<persia> minghua:  Ah.  I think you'll need an admin then (unless something has changed).
<minghua> persia: Or if you are so kind, please comment on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=339 and ask the uploader to run lintian (at least read the lintian output after uploading).
<persia> minghua: On the other hand, the work described in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-August/002104.html might have given you a different account.
<Fujitsu> minghua: Anybody with an account on sparky (ie. ubuntu-dev) can actually promote users.
<persia> Fujitsu: it's not a direct map to ubuntu-dev (or my account would work).
<minghua> Fujitsu: Thanks.  Let me try the thing in persia's link first.
<minghua> Thanks to persia too. :-)
<Fujitsu> persia: The accounts on sparky should be pretty much everybody, though the syncing script apparently hasn't run in a while.
<persia> Fujitsu: Around 6 months, but I understand that the administrator will be more active again soon :)
<minghua> Yay, I'm in now.
<minghua> persia: Thanks, the procedure in the mail you pointed to worked.
<persia> minghua: Great.  I've also relayed your comment.  Let me know if you want to rephrase, and I'll delete.
<minghua> Apparently iceape is quite stubborn about remembering my logins.
<minghua> persia: The comment is good, thanks (actually, more polite than I would have put it :-P).
<persia> minghua: I like to provide encouragement :)
* Fujitsu wonders why most of libapache-*'s Debian unmetdeps bugs haven't had a response in the 4 months since they were filed.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Apache 1 or Apache 2 packages?
<Fujitsu> minghua: Apache 1.
<slangasek> because they're packages someone uploaded 8 years ago with a userbase of 5? :)
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Heh, probably.
<minghua> Fujitsu: I think all apache 1 packages are out of testing now.  But I'm sure slangasek knows better than I do.
<slangasek> afraid they aren't
<slangasek> wish they were :)
<slangasek> (the main holdout is php4)
<persia> Isn't PHP4 EOL?
<Fujitsu> persia: Not until December, IIRC.
<slangasek> persia: php4 is already dead in unstable, it's stuck in testing because it has the same problem as apache1 itself
<slangasek> (too many reverse-deps that won't go awaaaaayyy)
<persia> slangasek: Ah.  I can sympathise.
<Fujitsu> Surely 4 months is enough for somebody to come and kill them without the maintainer?
<persia> Are there removal bugs filed?  If not, they may never go...
<LaserJock> ok, so what is a good CLI way to take out a variable string from another string?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: How is the variable string separated from the rest?
<LaserJock> slangasek: are you the one we need to ask for a RC freeze exception?
<persia> LaserJock: Do you mean something like s/$foo//?
<Fujitsu> And by take it out, do you mean return the variable bit, or remove it from the original?
<LaserJock> persia: basically yeah
<LaserJock> I'm doing some translation stuff
<persia> LaserJock: I like sed for that.
<slangasek> LaserJock: if necessary, though usually you should let the uploads do the talking :)
<LaserJock> I need to turn about-edubuntu-CC.po into CC.po
<Joe_CoT> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/deluge-torrent/+bug/149050 Found the issue, worked with the developer for the patch, patch works. Anyone wanna package it, or does anyone wanna sponsor mine?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149050 in deluge-torrent "Deluge torrent client: Cannot set file priority, as it continually claims that Full Allocation is not set" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<persia> (e.g. `sed -i s/'REMOVE ME'//g foo`)
<LaserJock> but the "about-edubuntu-" part will change depending on the doc I'm working on
<slangasek> Fujitsu: feel free to join the Debian QA team to try to identify these and get them cleaned out? :)
<LaserJock> persia: ok, right, but can I stick a variable in there for "REMOVE ME" ?
<persia> LaserJock: You can, but it sounds like you'd do better in a bash context (see http://www.faqs.org/docs/abs/HTML/string-manipulation.html)
<LaserJock> slangasek: is anybody free to join Debian QA?
<slangasek> LaserJock: yes; by "join" I basically mean "do the work to identify packages that should be orphaned or removed, post to debian-qa to get a consensus"
<persia> e,g, ${$FOO#$BAR (close brace) removes $BAR from $FOO
<slangasek> and then "if approved by the team, file bug reports"
<LaserJock> slangasek: does Debian QA have a wiki/web page that describes what tasks they do?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: qa.debian.org?
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> those Debian guys think of everything ;-)
<persia> LaserJock: It's practice what does it.
<LaserJock> anybody know if Debian has implemented the new Debian Maintainer thing?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Not yet.
<slangasek> it's not fully implemented yet, no
<Fujitsu> Although I am a bit behind on debian-devel.
<LaserJock> hmm, I'd like to sign up for that when it's working I think
<slangasek> there's some prototype code
* LaserJock shamefully admits he just this last week installed Debian at home for the first time
<LaserJock> I was quite surprised how well it worked and looked ;-)
* Fujitsu should probably find the time to finish T&S.
<Joe_CoT> Ok, let's try this again :) I fixed #149050, I've got the patch, and I'm not really sure how to proceed. It's correct, tested, and I have a package for it. Anyone want to look at the patch and put it in? Anyone want to sponsor mine? Not sure how to proceed.
<persia> bug 149050
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149050 in deluge-torrent "Deluge torrent client: Cannot set file priority, as it continually claims that Full Allocation is not set" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149050
<Fujitsu> bug #149050
<persia> Joe_CoT: The next step is to wrap the patch (along with any other fixes from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/deluge-torrent/ with easy fixes) in a candidate revision patch, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<persia> Joe_CoT: Note that there may be a conflict with bug 139518.  You'll want to review to see which is better for a final solution (at this point, I think targeted patches are preferred).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139518 in deluge-torrent "UVF Exception: latest stable version 0.5.5" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139518
<Joe_CoT> well, i went and worked with the devs to get the patch, since we're in feature freeze. Updating to 0.5.5 fixes the issue, but I didn't think that was happening at this point
<minghua> Joe_CoT: Can you provide a full debdiff as well?
<minghua> Joe_CoT: i.e., with debian/patches/00list and debian/changelog changes.
<persia> Joe_CoT: I also don't think it will be happening, as we've just entered the ReleaseCandidateFreeze, so the next step is to prepare a new candidate revision.  There's some instruction available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing, although it may be slightly out of date.
<Joe_CoT> minghua: I can, but I'm not sure how to do so. if you give me a hint I'll get on it and attach it
<Joe_CoT> persia: yeah, i figured, and that's why I wanted to just patch the bug
<persia> Joe_CoT: one-bug revisions are good.  Just ask here if you have any trouble with the instructions.
<minghua> Joe_CoT: The link given by persia has instructions about using debdiff.
<minghua> Although to be honest, that patch confuses me quite a bit.
<persia> Looks to me like a change to the preferences model: combining two mutually opposed booleans into a single entry.  Am I missing something?
<Joe_CoT> persia: yes, that's it. The problem is that, in the current version, preferences sets both use_full and use_compact to 1, so compact is always used. In 5.4.1, only use_compact is actually used.
<minghua> persia: Why is the first hunk necessary?
<Joe_CoT> so, setting compact sets use_compact =1, setting full sets use_compact=0
<persia> minghua: The first hunk removes the logic to auto-set the alternate boolean when one is set, and replaces it with a radio control.  The second uses the radio control instead of the boolean to set a value.
<Joe_CoT> minghua: added the debdiff
<fedefede0101> hi guys, just a question.....build-stamp and config-stamp are lock files right?? so, they're supposed to be empty at the end of the building process...
<fedefede0101> am I right??
<fedefede0101> sorry, I'm preety new with packaging....
<fedefede0101> :)
<minghua> Hmm.  Let me download the deluge-torrent package.
<TheMuso> fedefede0101: THey are used to indicate that that part of the package build has completed successfully.
<persia> Joe_CoT: A few notes:  1) In the changelog, describe the issue resolved so that admins don't need to check lauchpad.  2)  The syntax (LP: #nnnnn) in the changelog will automatically close the bug for you.
<minghua> persia: BTW I am still not convinced, I don't see anything removed in the first hunk.  I see it as a functional-equivalent change.
<Joe_CoT> persia: ok, I'll make that change
<persia> minghua: I'll defer to you: my python-fu is really more python-bu
<fedefede0101> ok, thanks TheMuso :) so, I was right...
<fedefede0101> I'm trying to learn as much as I can...
<minghua> persia: Nah, I am a green newbie on python, too.
<Joe_CoT> minghua: the change is that now, instead of the full radio being set to use_full, and the compact radio set to use_compact, the compact radio is set to use_compact, and the full radio is set to !use_compact. use_compact is the only one actually used, and that was the problem
<fedefede0101> good night...and thanks again!! :)
<persia> Grrr...  www.jp.debian.org isn't mirroring...
<persia> I get it: so an alternate solution would be to add another if clause checking the state of radio_full_allocation (although this is nicer).
<minghua> Joe_CoT: Yes, I understand the logic.  But I don't see anything involved with "use_full_storage" in the first hunk.
<Joe_CoT> minghua: exactly. the tag is now gone
<minghua> Joe_CoT: Then why change the first hunk?
<minghua> ...If it has nothing to do with the removed tag.
<Joe_CoT> minghua, the first chunk is probably unnecessary, correct. It looks like it's just a more streamlined version. If you'd like, I can try without the top chunk and see if it works correctly.
<minghua> Joe_CoT: No need.  If the patch comes from upstream, keep it as is.
<minghua> Joe_CoT: I'm just making sure I'm understanding the patch correctly.
<persia> (Just be prepared to defend it :))
<Joe_CoT> ok. yeah, the only change is i changed it from patch to dpatch
<minghua> Joe_CoT: Also, please mention that the patch comes from upstream in debian/changelog.
<Joe_CoT> ok
<minghua> Actually, I think I see the point of the first hunk now.
<minghua> persia: Are you familiar with the freeze exception process?
* minghua is not sure if he is going to do his first sponsor upload for gutsy in the release freeze week...
<persia> minghua: This freeze is new for me, and I've been away for a while.  From what I understand from this morning's MOTU meeting, there are a number of active sponsors who could provide review (if the bug is subscribed to the team).
<crimsun> still the same process as before.  File bug against source package, attach debdiff, sub motu-uvf, yadda.
<Fujitsu> crimsun!
* TheMuso knew someone would do that.
<minghua> persia: I have done the review.  I think the patch is good.  I just don't know the procedure (how many acks?  can I just upload?  should I ping release managers after upload?)
<minghua> Hi crimsun.
<Joe_CoT> persia: Added more to changelog and patch, changed to use (LP: #xxxxx) syntax. http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/39724/
<Joe_CoT> is that better than the other debdiff?
<Joe_CoT> minghua ^ as well
<persia> Joe_CoT: That's a much better changelog, although if you could keep the line length to < 80, it would be even better :)
<Joe_CoT> ok, 1 sec. Same with the patch description, or is that ok?
<Joe_CoT> how do I spit it. another "-" line?
<Joe_CoT> *split
<minghua> Joe_CoT: Also, I'm not sure mentioning a dpaste.com url in changelog is exactly a good idea...
<persia> The patch description is seen by fewer people, so it's more OK, but if you don't mind...
<Joe_CoT> minghua: i have no other method of showing it. that's what the dev gave me on irc. i could just not include it
<crimsun> minghua: upload is blocked on one approval from an ~motu-uvf member; the approval can be via any medium (SMS, IRC, e-mail, yadda)
<persia> Joe_CoT: You don't need a new "-".  Just wrap it, and indent inside the previous "-".
<minghua> Joe_CoT: Just say it's from upstream would be good enough.  This is not a court. :-)
<Joe_CoT> ok. give me just a se
<Joe_CoT> *sec
<minghua> crimsun: Thanks.
<minghua> Joe_CoT: yeah, remove the leading "-", and just put (LP: #nnnnn) at the end.
<Joe_CoT> minghua: ? sorta confused what you mean
<Joe_CoT> i also gotta go really soon, so if you explain, i'll upload the diff and be walking out the door :)
<minghua> Joe_CoT: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/39725/
<minghua> Joe_CoT: That's how I would write it.
<Joe_CoT> ok, well i gotta go. I'll look later. bye!
<minghua> Hmm.  Joey Hess wrote a patch to make dpkg understand git.
<bddebian> Heya
<bluefoxicy> I don't believe I like the virtualbox OSE package.
<bluefoxicy> it rolls in an SDK (i.e. a -dev package)
<bluefoxicy> the lack of a proper kernel module package (only source) also is irksome but.
<TheMuso> Youch. The ATI driver upload FTBFS.
<StevenK> Yay. Let's beat up Bryce.
<bddebian> heh
<TheMuso> Actually it was tepsipakki who uploaded it. :)
<StevenK> Let's beat up Bryce anyway
<bddebian> Wow, tough crowd :-)
<ScottK> Well I guess I should have read the scrollback before I posted to ubuntu-devel....
<minghua> ScottK: It's okay.  Since the idea is people would ask the motu-uvf team before uploading anyway, and you are likely the only one who still don't know the exact freeze rules, I'd say all is good. :-)
<ScottK> This is still different than I remember Feisty being, but I was still pretty new then.
<ScottK> minghua: Well I used the wrong e-mail address to post it and so it got moderated and I could kill it.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: to where?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I responded to the freeze anounement message on ubuntu-devel before I read the scrollback here.
<ScottK> Universe is still slushy, not entirely frozen.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: did you kill it?
<Hobbsee> or is it still there?
<minghua> Aha.  So I guessed what ScottK's mail is about without seeing it. :-)
<ScottK> I did (kill my mesage.)
<Hobbsee> oh right
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i have mod powers for that list, btw
<ScottK> OK.
<Fujitsu> We're fairly slushy until "<release> is so frozen you wouldn't believe" freeze.
<ScottK> Normally when I screw up and send with the wrong address, I just kill it and resend.
<Hobbsee> yeah, same here
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Yes, which isn't what the RM mailing said.
<Hobbsee> yeah, but whether steve thinks of universe is an interesting questoin
* Hobbsee goes thru the moderation queues
<bddebian> Anyone know what "!C menu-2" in a menu file means?
* ScottK is good and does not respond again on the LP bug status thread ...
<TheMuso> 3/c
<TheMuso> ugh
<bddebian> ScottK: I've really avoided that whole thread.. :-)
<ScottK> bddebian: Don't worry.  The LP devs appear to understand how we do stuff better than we do and will make LP wonderful for us.
<ScottK> </bitter>
* bddebian refuses to comment on the grounds that he may incriminate himself
* persia belatedly responds to a menu question: Menu File Format 2 (introduced 8 years ago, but not yet completely adopted)
<bddebian> Ah, thx persia
<YokoZar1> Akk, does the archive freeze mean I can't upload my new Wine package?
<YokoZar1> Or is that just for non universe?
<persia> YokoZar1: It means that any upload should have a good reason, and will require manual approval from the release administrators.  You'll want to get approval from someone in motu-uvf before uploading (I think).
<YokoZar1> Already have it :)
<ScottK> YokoZar1: I'd say lets give it a shot.
<YokoZar1> ScottK: Thanks.  This week has been really busy.  Also it took me literally all day to fetch/rebuild the ia32-libs package now (which I'm about to upload to REVU)
<slangasek> ScottK: right, the mailing didn't mention universe explicitly at all, because the notes I was working from didn't either; I don't have a problem with anything that the MOTU think is best for handling universe at this stage
<slangasek> so feel free to take my comments as only applying to main
<YokoZar1> ty slangasek
<bryce> ScottK: doh!
<bryce> ScottK: well of course we see 15 min after tepsipakki's upload, upstream released a new -ati :-P
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> bryce: "Correct bozo idiot error" ? :-)
<bryce> a CBIE, yes
<bryce> actually we knew alex would be doing a new -ati release "some time this weekend", we just didn't know it'd be Friday afternoon ;-)
<StevenK> I can't expand out CBIE. Can't Believe I <something>, right?
<bryce> why, "Correct Bozo Idiot Error" of course
<StevenK> Ahhh
<Hobbsee> hiya bryce
<ScottK> slangasek: Thanks.
<ScottK> bryce: ScottK/StevenK
<bryce> ScottK: whoops.  I guess you SmumbleK's look much the same ;-)
<ScottK> bryce: No trouble.  Happens all the time.
<ScottK> In real life when someone gets my name wrong it's almost always Steve for some reason I don't understand, so it's not just tab completion.
<StevenK> And people usually hear my name as 'Dave' on the phone. It's odd.
<tonyyarusso> People think I'm my mom on the phone
* StevenK bits back a quip
<StevenK> Er, bites
* ScottK types and then thinks better and hits backspace.
<superm1> bryce, you still here?
<bryce> yup
<StevenK> ScottK: ^U is your friend
<persia> Hmmm..  sbuild 0.56 is still broken for me.  Does it work for anyone else?
<superm1> bryce, can you comment to how recent of a i810 driver we have: whether this patch discussed here will be necessary http://mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Installing_MythTV_on_an_Intel_Mac_Mini_using_Ubuntu#Viewing_HD_Material
<ScottK> StevenK: Sure, but I actually thought better instead of just pretending to this time.
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: Did we backport Kompozer to Feisty yet?
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: No, I've been distracted.
<ScottK> It's probably a good time for it...
<tonyyarusso> yeah
<tonyyarusso> remind me of the process?
<ScottK> !backports | tonyyarusso
<ubotu> tonyyarusso: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<bryce> superm1: yeah lemme look
<ScottK> Nixternal's an hour west of me and he just said he was going to bed (on #kubuntu-devel).  I guess I better too.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<slangasek> pff, sleep
<bryce> night St...ScottK
<slangasek> night, ScottK
<bryce> superm1: ok here's the skinny
<bryce> superm1: i810 is deprecated.  Upstream in xorg they alias i810 to "intel" starting with version 2.0
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: Should I file one bug affecting feisty, edgy, dapper, or separate ones for all, or just bother with feisty since the others have nvu?
<bryce> for Ubuntu, rather than use the alias, we held back i810 to version 1.7.4
<bryce> as far as I know, there is no "newer" version than that, as development on that driver ceased when intel took over
<bryce> however because the driver is aliased on some platforms, there is a risk that when people say "new i810" they could mean "intel"
<superm1> bryce, oh interesting.
<bryce> the linked-to instructions however do seem appropriate to our i810 (references to 915resolution, date on posts, et al)
<bryce> as a general rule though, starting with Gutsy you should not need to worry about the i810 driver... encourage users of it to switch to intel
<bryce> hrm, now why is it that when I specify "iface eth1 inet static" and give it a static address it keeps coming up with a dhcp-provided one... hrm
<bryce> ironically, this is my mythtv box doing it.  ;-)
<superm1> bryce, well the thing that sparked this was that a user had to switch to i810 on a mac mini
<superm1> using gutsy
<superm1> and pointed me at that, so i was a bit confused with regard to taht
<bryce> ahh
<superm1> they had said they couldn't get higher resolution otherwise
<bryce> that sounds wonky
<superm1> yeah that's what i thought.
<bryce> well, as long as they know that i810 is not going to be supported and that they're more or less on their own with it...
<bryce> while the intel driver does have its bugs, at least people will be working on it
<superm1> the guy posted this in our thread for showing what hardware works and doesnt on mythbuntu.  i'll have him form a more complete thread and bring this discussion to him.
<superm1> thanks bryce :)
<bryce> sounds good, sure
<superm1> bryce, oh and about openchrome.  i forgot to tell you before why i never filed the MIR.
<superm1> there was finally a real release of it
<superm1> and it uses a full out different driver name and all
<bryce> wow
<superm1> i considered doing the whole UVFe thing for it, but this late into the cycle i know its going to break some of the ubiquity stuff we have coded for mythbuntu
<superm1> so i don't want to bother at this point
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: Bug #149715 filed.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149715 in feisty-backports "Please backport KompoZer 0.7.10" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149715
<superm1> bryce, here was the announce that i saw: http://mythtvnews.com/2007/09/20/first-openchrome-official-release-030/
* bryce nods
<superm1> so for hardy i'll package that up
<superm1> and then get the mir made for it
<bryce> superm1: put it on your todo list to remind me once hardy starts, and we'll get it in, and make the decision about making it the default for the appropriate hardware
<superm1> bryce, do you want to discuss it at uds perhaps?
<bryce> sure
<superm1> or not worthy of a sprint really?
<bryce> probably not worthy of having a session, but maybe we can just chat about it over a beer or something
<superm1> okay sounds good
<bryce> superm1: hey I have a question for you
<bryce> superm1: on my mythtv box, navigation in the menus is quite slow
<bryce> this is a pretty powerful amd box with tons of memory and such, so its a bit weird
<bryce> it plays video fine, and outside mythtv its quite speedy and snappy
<bryce> I have a new but pretty cheap video card (nvidia G72 geforce 7300 LE), which I'm suspicious of, and I'm wondering if swapping that out with a different card might matter, or if this is something you already are aware of?
<superm1> bryce, what card do you have in there right now?
<superm1> its the nvidia?
<bryce> yes
<superm1> you have the proprietary driver activated?
<bryce> nope, running -nv
<superm1> if you can install the proprietary driver, it improves performance immensely
<bryce> ok cool
<superm1> and lets you turn on the opengl accelerated menu system
<superm1> Settings->Appearance->Theme Painter after you install things.
<pwnguin> just what is it doing that openGL fixes?
<pkern> So this means that universe is frozen too?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Hobbsee] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | New Packages Freeze in effect | The rest of universe is not frozen.  Main is.
<persia> pkern: Essentially, although the threshold is smaller.
<persia> Hobbsee: I thought we were looking for motu-uvf nods before uploading.
<Fujitsu> persia: Not until the last week, IIRC.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: The rest of universe?
<Hobbsee> persia: for new package exceptions, uvfe's.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: That's what I thought...
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  My misunderstanding then.  I thought we were pushing it a week earlier this time.
<StevenK> Not until hard freeze.
<StevenK> Which will be after RC
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: the rules havent changed since last release.
<persia> Also, uploads to get manually approved, so it's at least slushy, if not frozen.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: But you said the resto of universe in the topic.
<slangasek> TheMuso: the universe is all that is or ever was or ever will be
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Hobbsee] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | New Packages Freeze / Upstream Version Freeze in effect |  The rest of universe is NOT frozen
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: there you go
<slangasek> therefore, main is also part of the universe
<Fujitsu> What part of universe is frozen, Hobbsee?
<Hobbsee> slangasek: not for upload rights.
* persia agrees with slangasek: Main is a small subset of universe.
<slangasek> insignificant details on a cosmological scale
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: nothing has changed since last week.
* TheMuso leaves be. :)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What? I am confused. Is there a part of universe that *is* frozen?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: therefore if you want a feature freeze exception, uvf exception, etc, you can still get them, but bugfix releases are fine, as per the new policy
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Hobbsee] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | New Packages Freeze / Upstream Version Freeze in effect -  The rest of universe is NOT frozen
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: if you upload something with a bunch of new features, without an exception, yes, you'll still get killed.
<persia> I don't see the diff in the last change.
<Fujitsu> Oh, like that, I see.
<Hobbsee> persia:  | --> -
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: like i say, same as the last few weeks.
<persia> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<YokoZar1> Are svg or png files better for icons?
<persia> YokoZar1: svg usually looks nicer, but both work.
<YokoZar1> I have both sent to me, so I guess i'll use the svg
<persia> YokoZar1: If you have both, you may as well install both, and just not pass the extension: that way the environment can select the best.
<YokoZar1> oh, good point
<YokoZar1> didn't realize it didn't need an extension
<persia> YokoZar1: Depends on the context.  If you're using a library pixbuf loading routine, it should auto-select.  If you're actually loading the file, you need the extension.
<YokoZar1> persia: these are going into .desktop files
<YokoZar1> persia: i have wine.png and wine.svg, I'm assuming I can just put Icon=wine into the .desktop file and copy both to /usr/share/pixmaps?
<persia> YokoZar1: That's what I thought.  No extension.  No path.  Just drop it somewhere in the iconcache directories (I usually use /usr/share/pixmaps)
<YokoZar1>  /usr/share/pixmaps is what the freedesktop.org spec calls for
<persia> YokoZar1: Exactly.  That's best practice, because then someone could create wine.xpm as part of a theme, and override the default.
<persia> Regarding the interleave: I thought the spec only indicated that path as preferred, and that menu systems were supposed to also search there, but that implementors could generate the icon cache in any desired manner.
<YokoZar1> http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html
<YokoZar1> err wrong link
<YokoZar1> Icons and themes are looked for in a set of directories. By     default, apps should look in $HOME/.icons (for backwards compatibility),     in $XDG_DATA_DIRS/icons and in /usr/share/pixmaps (in that order).     Applications may further add     their own icon directories to this list, and users may extend or     change the list (in application/desktop specific ways)
<persia> http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-latest.html
<persia> Right.  /usr/share/pixmaps is required to be one of the source directories when building the icon cache, but there may be others (and are in Ubuntu).
<YokoZar1> persia: ahh.  So, another question regarding the menu
<YokoZar1> Wine adds its own menu entry (Applications->Wine)
<persia> YokoZar1: It's my favorite type of question to answer :)
<YokoZar1> I'd like to put some of the Wine bundled apps (eg notepad) into there
<YokoZar1> But Wine doesn't generate that submenu until a user runs Wine once
<persia> YokoZar1: Is intended as a user menu, or a system-wide menu?
<YokoZar1> So Wine has your user apps (say, stuff you install into ~/.wine) as a user menu, but I guess I'd like to create a Wine system-wide menu to shove some wine-specific things into (eg, regedit and winecfg)
<YokoZar1> It's kinda weird having them elsewhere (say, in System->Preferences)
<persia> YokoZar1: Hmmm..  I'm not deeply familiar enough to understand how user menus and system menus are merged, but I suspect you'll want to play with installing something to /etx/xdg/menus
<persia> s/etx/etc
<YokoZar1> Do you know where Wine would copy its user level one so I can use that as a template?
<YokoZar1> ahh, nevermind.  It appears Wine copies stuff into ~/.config/menus/applications-merged
<persia> YokoZar1: If it was a pure system menu, I think you'd put an entry in /etc/xdg/desktop-directories/, but for a merged menu, you might need to do something special (check http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-latest.html, and the source for gnome-menus for ideas.
<persia> YokoZar1: That's roughly comparable to /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged, but the tricky part is making sure any new local ($HOME) entries show up properly in a system menu (something I've not tested)
<YokoZar1> so I don't have a /etc/xdg/desktop-directories/ folder
<YokoZar1> I'm guessing I should tell the package to make a folder /etc/xdg/applications-merged/ and then put a wine.menu there yes?
<persia> YokoZar1: I'd probably try using applications-merged first (as that's what the local setting does).  This should reduce the other effort needed to get everything to work.
<YokoZar1> persia: so it looks like <Directory> entries can refer to nonexistant .directory files
<YokoZar1> in the case of, say, no localization
<persia> YokoZar1: That's my understanding.  I believe that non-existent files are not rendered, but you'll want to check one of the implementations to verify.
<YokoZar1> persia: so it looks like my best bet is to make a category for Wine
<persia> YokoZar1: I don't recommend making such a change for gutsy - it's possibly intrusive UI-wise (and we're in FeatureFreeze and UIFreeze).  More generally, you'll probably want to get in touch with the -desktop team to discuss it: there are a few people with strong opinions about how the menus should be displayed.
<YokoZar1> yeah
<YokoZar1> The thing is
<YokoZar1> Wine already displays its own subtree
<persia> YokoZar1: Technically speaking, a category is probably the easiest way to make it look nice.
<YokoZar1> I could just manually refer to each wine.desktop file
<persia> YokoZar1: In that case, if you can get something working with /etc/xdg that looks the same, it should be cleaner, overall.
<YokoZar1> like a wine.menu file to go in /etc/xdg/applications-merged/
<persia> YokoZar1: Right.
<YokoZar1> if I have a higher menu include category wine, and a lower menu include category wine and category accessories, will it put it in both places or just the latter?
<persia> YokoZar1: If the menus are hierarchical, I believe just the latter.  If they are parallel branches in the tree, I believe both.
<YokoZar1> persia: what if I want to add something to places?
<persia> YokoZar1: You're getting more advanced than my knowledge.  I know that two menu categories in parallel trees generates two entries, but I'm not sure about hierarchy.  I suggest trying it and seeing what happens, or looking at the details of the implementation.
<YokoZar1> persia: I meant a more basic question: how do I add something to places (ie, what category)
<persia> YokoZar1: That's controlled by the <Include> directives in the .menu file
<YokoZar1> I'm looking for the right .menu file though
<YokoZar1> in /etc/xdg
<persia> YokoZar1: ggzcore-bin installs /etc/xdg/menus/applications-megred/ggz.merge.menu, which may be a good example.
<YokoZar1> thank you, I'll look at that
<pochu> StevenK, zul: mind looking at bug 144258? ScottK already ACKed it.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144258 in scribes "[UVFe]  Please sync scribes (universe) 0.3.2.9-1 from Debian Unstable (main)" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144258
<pkern>  The result is a text editor that provides a fluid user experience.
<pkern>  An editor that is easy and fun to use. And an editor that ensures the
<pkern>  safety of your documents at all times.
<pkern> That overeggs the pudding (thanks dict.leo.org).
<persia> When a patch is dropped, recreating a bug, it is better to reopen the original bug, or open a new bug?
<sladen> persia: technically probably to re-open;  however realistically, I would re-file, and link to the previous report
<sladen> persia: what got dropped?
<persia> sladen: bug #5362.  The argument for reopening is that the same fix works.  The argument for a new bug is that the original reporter might not care.  Perhaps I'll just reference the old bug in the changelog...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 5362 in torcs "Torcs crashed (because it has no sound?)" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/5362
<norsetto> hyall
<white> if anyone feels like testing a new version for nagios-plugins (I am interested in the check_http plugin), please do so and give some feedback :)
<white> http://developer.skolelinux.no/~white/debs/security/sid/nagios-plugins/
<white> it is mainly important that the check_http plugin still works as before
<Fujitsu> white: What's the change?
<white> Fujitsu: mainly a patch for http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-5198
<ubotu> Buffer overflow in the redir function in check_http.c in Nagios Plugins before 1.4.10 allows remote web servers to execute arbitrary code via long Location header responses (redirects). (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-5198)
<white> Fujitsu: feel encouraged to be my tester :)
<pkern> ScottK: You don't like bzr? ;)
<RAOF> I'd like some comments about bug #147587 - on one hand, miro doesn't actually require libxine1-ffmpeg, but most of the default feeds do.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 147587 in ubuntu "grub menu.lst update in gutsy make lvm unbootable" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147587
<RAOF> Ahem.
<RAOF> bug #147589
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 147589 in miro "Miro fails to play films when using default renderer (gstreamer works OK)" [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147589
<TheMuso> Evening folks.
<RAOF> Evenin' TheMuso!
<persia> RAOF: I'd leave it as is: let restricted-formats handle that (which does depend on -ffmpeg)
<persia> Umm..  Rather libxine-extracodecs
<RAOF> persia: You mean *buntu-restricted-extras?  I don't think that's in ubuntu-r-e (but it is in x- & k-)
<persia> RAOF: Right.  In Ubutnu, one must manually install libxine-extracodecs.
<RAOF> Which seems to no longer exist, but never mind :)
<persia> Ah.  It's stuck in a mirror.  Sorry then.  Ignore everything I've said.
<RAOF> Heh.
<RAOF> Well, I'm inclined to leave the dependencies as they are.  Miro already Recommends -ffmpeg.  I just want some 2nd opinions.
<rexbron> persia: Hello, I packaged genpo (it is in the ubuntu studio PPA). Care to give it a peruse?
<RAOF> Woah, while I'm at miro - bug #149736.  We can't stop people running probably broken programs while their system is being updated, right?
<ubotu> Bug 149736 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/149736 is private
<persia> rexbron: I took a quick look a couple days ago, and it seemed sane (as opposed to the previous lack of licensing for the organ definitions).  I'll add it to my list, but I won't be sponsoring any new packages for gutsy.
<persia> RAOF: That's PEBKAC.
<rexbron> persia: I was looking at this package in the hardy time frame from the outset. Personally, I was suprised I finnished it so quickly.
<RAOF> persia: Not entirely, but yeah.
<persia> rexbron: Perfect then :)  If you don't mind the wait, I'll take a closer look once I've cleared up the remaining two or three annoyances I have with gutsy.
<rexbron> persia: if you have time, I would apprecate any testing you could throw at it.
<rexbron> persia: have fun. :)
<persia> RAOF: I guess.  More generally, if it started before the upgrade, it shouldn't be an issue.  Checking for an apt-lock, and checking depdencies for upgrading status when launching a program sounds like a general wrapper :)
<persia> rexbron: Sure.  I've only two devices, but I'm excited about the idea of getting pedals working.
<RAOF> persia: So I'll file a wishlist "should provide a wrapper for all programs so they don't get run in an inconsistent state" bug against dpkg :D
<rexbron> persia: Seeing as I lack the appropreate hardware, that would be valuable information. :)
<persia> RAOF: :)
* pkern wants that wrapper for /bin/sh
<persia> rexbron: vkeybd and qmidicontrol should be able to simulate most of it (although it's hard to do things simultaneously).
<persia> I'm chasing an x86_MMX bug.  OpenAL seems to crash under certain circumstances on AMD64, when linked against the provided i386 MMX arch-specific libraries.  There are some configure checks to make sure only a subset of the i386 MMX libraries are included.  Is this ever safe, or should I be seeking a comparison of the i386 and x86_64 MMX instruction sets?
<StevenK> persia: If it's only MMX, and not something like SSE{,2}, both i386 and x86_64 should be able to handle it.
* RAOF whistles apreciatively at persia's bug.
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  I was afraid of that.  I guess I'll have to learn some more rather than just disabling MMX.
<RAOF> StevenK, persia: Maybe alignment issues?
<pkern> Unexpectedly non-broken dependency apache2-mpm-itk 2.2.3-04-3build3 -> {apache2.2-common 2.2.4-3}!
<pkern> Yay. /me goes removing apache2...
<persia> RAOF: It sounds impressive, but it's really just looking at the beginning of a stack trace, and noticing it's calling something in .../arch/i386/ on a AMD64.
<pkern> Haha. And removing apache2.2-common suggests me to install mzscheme (after suggesting webfs).
<RAOF> persia: Awww. :)
<RAOF> Hey bigon!  Good timing, I'm just about off to bed :)
<LongPointyStick> RAOF: bed?  but it's time for dinner!
<RAOF> LongPointyStick: Not if you wake up at 6am
<bigon> RAOF: hi :)
<RAOF> bigon: At some point you'll throw up a bzr branch of libgnome-keyring-cil, I suppose?
<LongPointyStick> RAOF: ew.
<LongPointyStick> RAOF: whatever did you do that for?  oh, motu meeting?
<RAOF> No.  Because that's when I woke up.  Darn sunlight!
<bigon> RAOF: done, http://router.bigon.be/bzr/gnome-keyring-sharp
<bigon> RAOF: mmm wait,  http://router.bigon.be/~bigon/bzr/gnome-keyring-sharp/
<RAOF> :)
<RAOF> Not on LP?
<bigon> RAOF: I will upload it there, but now I'm going to eat
<persia> Found it.  Adding 4 to a pointer is bad :)
<RAOF> bigon: And I'm off to sleep :)
<RAOF> persia: Of course!
<pochu> LongPointyStick: mind looking at bug 144258?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144258 in scribes "[UVFe]  Please sync scribes (universe) 0.3.2.9-1 from Debian Unstable (main)" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144258
<rexbron> persia: so you found one of the bugs?
<persia> rexbron: I found a bug in torcs which was a bug in openal, if that's what you mean.
<rexbron> persia: patching time?
<persia> rexbron: Eventually.  I still need to learn MMX, and tune the assembly...
<rexbron> persia: thats hardcore
<bigon> RAOF: uploaded to the LP
<bddebian> Heya gang
<norsetto> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi norsetto
<_polto_> hello
<jsomers> the package visudo has a manpage bug, open since april and fixed upstream in april, how come it has not been fixed in gutsy?
<jsomers> I can't image that the package source has not been fetched from the upstream cvs since
<_polto_> Fujitsu, sorry but did you had some time to investigate and why not apply our patch for mplayer ?
<minghua> jsomers: What is the bug number?
<joejaxx> Hello Everyone :)
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<minghua> jsomers: If you are talking about bug #105877, it was only fixed in Debian on Sept. 5th.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 105877 in sudo "visudo manpage typo" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105877
<jsomers> ah, yes
<minghua> jsomers: And nobody came and ask us to get this fix from Debian, so basically nobody was aware of the fix.
<jsomers> ah, so packages are always coming from debian?
<minghua> jsomers: Yes, most came from Debian originally.  We do some changes ourselves, but we constantly sync new versions and bug fixes from Debian as well.
<minghua> jsomers: In this case, if will certainly be fixed in the next cycle (hardy, 8.04), because we'll sync from Debian again.
<jsomers> ok then
<jsomers> I was just wondering, since it has been a while
<pochu> wow, this Virtual Box really looks great! But what a pity it isn't GTK...
<ScottK> pkern: bzr is neither good nor bad IMO.  It's just that it's one more VCS on top of CVS, SVN, and Git that I already have to deal with.
<ScottK> From my perspective it's and Ubuntu specific tool with a non-trivial learning curve that I don't have time for.  I know others use it, but Ubuntu is the only place I've run into it.
<broonie> To be fair, one of the reasons I bother with bzr at all is that the learning curve for basic usage is pretty trivial.
<broonie> I got a comment at a job interview recently along the lines of "wow, you're the first person I've met who's actually used bzr"
<ScottK> broonie: True.  And I have used it a bit for some Kubuntu stuff.
<ScottK> Heh.
<ScottK> I object to it as part of MOTU new package review processes because it's more complexity for me as a reviewer.
<ScottK> Dput the package to REVU, I dget the package, and then give comments is simple and works well.
<minghua> I think i like bzr better than git.  At least I can "bzr checkout" and "bzr update" if I only want to peek into the repository.
<broonie> minghua: That works just as well with git IME?
<minghua> It's true not many people outside of Ubuntu uses bzr though.
<minghua> broonie: Really?  Then why can't I find a new user guide saying so...
<minghua> It almost always start with "git clone".
<broonie> Oh, you're very bandwidth constrained?
<minghua> No I am not.  It's just that I never see a tutorial mentioning that simple "git checkout" and "git update" would work.
<minghua> It's always clone, pull, commit and stuff.
<minghua> My situation is pretty special because I deal with these repos mostly for translation work.
<ScottK> minghua: The point from my perspective is that I never get to pick the tool.  The project I work on that uses Git, I didn't pick it.  I've only got room for some many VCS in my head (the limit seems to be slightly less than one in my case so it's a real PITA).
<norsetto> lol
<broonie> The equivalent of a checkout, update workflow is clone, pull.
<minghua> And I don't really care about distributed VCS or creating my own branch, I just want to checkout the HEAD and then send a patch.
<minghua> ScottK: I completely agree, I'm in a similar situation.
<minghua> Actually I ran into a mercurial repo a few days ago as well, and decided not to bother.
<AstralJava> Sorry to bug you guys, but could anyone from motu-uvf take a look at bug #149606, it's a FreezeException bug for python-gammu, a dependency of wammu, the phone sync app. Would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149606 in python-gammu "FreezeException for python-gammu 0.22-2" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149606
<pkern> ScottK: Actually bzr hasn't got in my way yet, in conjunction with bzr-builddeb. I knew darcs and getting used to bzr *with LP* was easy. I disagree on the learning curve, especially as I found git just weird (but that's probably related to the fact that I tried git-core in Debian etch).
<pkern> asac: I thought I already saw granparadiso in Gutsy, but looking at LP it only built yesterday and is in NEW?
<ScottK> pkern: My thing about new package reviews and bzr is that we already have a nicely functioning process without it.  I tend to be against changing stuff to make it harder even if it's only a little bit.  Totally agree on Git being weird.
<pkern> ScottK: Did you read of Joey Hess's efforts on having git source packages? ;)
<pkern> [asterix]  ~ > firefox-3.0
<pkern> [: 32: /home/pkern/.mozilla/firefox: unexpected operator
<pkern> A pleasant experience. :D
<pkern> asac: line 32 in /usr/bin/firefox-3.0 in 3.0~alpha8-0ubuntu1~mt has a weird character.
<ScottK> pkern: No.  I know lamont is doing with Postfix, but haven't looked at it in detail.  Is there a pointer you can give me towards something to read?
<pkern> ScottK: Yep, hold on.
<pkern> ScottK: http://wiki.debian.org/GitSrc
<pkern> ScottK: That's *very* new and nothing has been decided upon. (I guess the wiki entry was created today or yesterday.)
<pkern> asac: And a missing dup on xulrunner-3.0
<pkern> asac: s/3.0/1.9/
<ScottK> pkern: Thanks.  Interesting.  I see some parallels there with my kvetching about bzr and LP.
<pkern> ScottK: Especially the "git.d.o build queue" thing.
<lamont> ScottK: git is love. do not deny the git. :-)
<lamont> ScottK: all my packages are in git now
<lamont> util-linux included
<lamont> I don't see any reason to have the git repo in the tar.gz, given that I can use debian-control to point any dpkg-source -x users at the git repo on the net
<ScottK> Personally, I see the advantages of a VCS, but I'm concerned that it dilutes the notion that the actual repository is the canonical (pun intended) source for the distro.
<ScottK> For Debian pakcages with one/few maintainers or a team that's agreed to use a VCS, it's fine.  I just don't think it scales to Ubuntu with team maintenance of literally thousands of packages.
<bddebian> Amen brother :)
<lamont> generally speaking, source is kept in a VCS somewhere, and the developer takes code from there and ships it.  So there is a canonical repository for the packager, which then becomes a collection of sources which form the canonical origin of a distro
<minghua> ScottK: Joey's argument is that learning multiple VCS systems is not that different from learning multiple patch systems.
<lamont> util I moved my packages to git, the VCS was local to my machine and not visible on the net.  -> suckage for others
<lamont> minghua: and joeyh is right
<ScottK> I agree and that's a PITA too.
<minghua> lamont: Yes, I think that's valid argument.
<lamont> I will admit that when I'm on a NMU-athon, that dbs packages tend to get pushed to the bottom of the queue unless the bug really, uh, bugs me.
<ScottK> I still have to study man dpatch pretty hard every time I add dpatch to a package.
<lamont> dpatch I've pretty well internalized.
<lamont> I even used it in several of my packages, until I switched everything to git and killed dpatch as painful and no longer worth it, given a real VCS.
<lamont> with cvs, dpatch is a savior.
<ScottK> lamont: I've been doing Debian packaging less than a year now, so all this stuff is only shallowly etched in my brain so far.
<lamont> then again, with cvs, a gun to the head is pretty close to salvation as well. :-)
<pkern> I got so many comments about `why did you switch this particular package to quilt'. Heh.
<lamont> "creating a new patch?  dpatch-edit-patch name $name-of-last-patch"
<lamont> "editing an existing patch?  dpatch-edit-patch $name-of-patch"
<ScottK> lamont: Which is a lifesaver.  I'd be doomed otherwise.
<lamont> and then just dink around with 00list as needed
<lamont> quilt?  yeah I hear that's "better" than dpatch.  I interpret it as "more complicated"
<lamont> s/it/that/
<ScottK> It's the adding dpatch to debian/rules for the first time that get's me confused.
<bddebian> The games team seem to be moving everything to quilt :-(
<lamont> ScottK: that's where I'd commit to git (or bzr), and do the patch inline.
<lamont> bddebian: quilt is better.
<pkern> You need a bloody bit of setup (i.e. setting an environment variable to point it to a Debian'ish location for the patches), but wandering through the patch stack is beautiful.
<lamont> OTOH, dpatch, quilt, and the rest are just attempting to preserve the branch so that it can be rebased to a new upstream... that's what git or bzr are _FOR_
<lamont> pkern: so is "gitk --all"
<ScottK> Also though, with patches I can see what Debian's done to a package versus what upstream's done pretty easily.  Once it's all inline, it's harder to sort (I can't just apt-get source and look in debian/patches anymore).
<lamont> ScottK: right. you have to go to the VGS
<lamont> VCS even
<lamont> which, if it's private, justifies dpatch/quilt.
<lamont> if it's public, well.  tough.  go fetch.
<ScottK> Go to the VCS = harder unless you are the maintainer who's got it handy.
<lamont> apt-get source postfix on gutsy and read what it says...
* ScottK will.
<lamont> hrmpf.
<lamont> not postfix
<ScottK> No, not postfix.
<lamont> where did I see that...
<pkern> apt? But that's bzr
<minghua> Are we talking about the gutsy dpkg-source recognizing the various XS-VCS-* stuff?
<lamont> apt 0.7.6ubuntu10:
<lamont> NOTICE: 'alsa-oss' packaging is maintained in the 'Svn' version control system at:
<lamont> svn://svn.debian.org/pkg-alsa/trunk/alsa-oss
<pkern> Please use:
<pkern> bzr get http://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/apt/ubuntu
<pkern> to retrieve the latest (possible unreleased) updates to the package.
<pkern> *more helpful*
<lamont> pkern: except for the s/possible/possibly/
<lamont> tell me that's not in released code...
<pkern> lamont: Of course it is. Aren't we in string freeze? :-P
<lamont> pkern: string freeze is so we can translate the strings... I think that one needs to be translated to english. :-P
<broonie> The dpatch UI for working on patches always strikes me as fairly painful due to the copying.
<lamont> broonie: it used to not copy.  that was worse when it had patch failures.
<broonie> Really, why?
<pkern> quilt solves that one ;)
<broonie> quilt deals with that pretty naturally, I find.
<lamont> because then you have a broken tree, in some semi-random state in dpatch, not unpatchable (because of the rejects), etc.
<minghua> lamont: Actually, adding an English translation is probably a better fix for now. :-)
<ScottK> lamont: Poorly worded info note is still way better than the stop and ask are you sure you actually want the actual source package that you already said you wanted behavior that preceeded what we have now.
<lamont> heh
<lamont> anyway, in trouble now and leaving the house... my bad.
<pkern> ScottK: Nice phrase.
<ScottK> Well I'm still not over my reaction to that one the first time I hit it.
* pkern grins.
* pkern ponders where in real life computing Predicate transformer semantics are needed.
<leonel> no debootstrap for gutsy on feisty ?
<leonel> leonel@journey:~$ sudo debootstrap  gutsy gutsy-chroot
<leonel> E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/gutsy
<pkern> leonel:
<pkern> (Bah.)
<pkern> You could either copy the script from gutsy debootstrap or backport it altogether.
<leonel> pkern: ok
<pkern> There is a 1.0.1~feisty1 in feisty-backports
<ScottK> leonel: There's one in feisty-backports that supports gutsy
<ScottK> Yeah.  That one.
<leonel> ScottK: thanks  found it  and  downloading
<pkern> .oO( packages.u.c does not list files for *-backports? )
<pkern> ScottK: Otherwise I would have suggested one. ;)
<ScottK> pkern: You have to look in LP to get *-backports.
<leonel> leonel@journey:~$ sudo debootstrap  gutsy gutsy-chroot
<leonel> I: Retrieving Release
<leonel>    <-- YES   Thank  you !
<ScottK> They are technically a separate project.
<pkern> ScottK: That wouldn't give me a file list neither. ;)
<ScottK> Blessed by Ubuntu TB and supported by the Ubuntu archive, but not "Ubuntu".
<pkern> Aye.
<pkern> ScottK: It does list the version but shows "no information available" on the file list.
<pkern> ScottK: (packages.u.c)
<ScottK> Ah.
* ScottK tends not to use p.u.c since I usually want to look stuff up by source package anyway.
<pkern> ScottK: http://packages.ubuntu.com/src:pkgname
<pkern> It's not that the infrastructure isn't there. ;)
<ScottK> Ah.  Hadn't noticed that.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> I don't think that used to be there, but I also think lots of things that aren't true.  Who know.
<ScottK> know/knos
<ScottK> knos/knows even
<pkern> ScottK: It's on packages.d.o since ages.
<pkern> ScottK: Or did you mean *-backports?
<ScottK> OK.  I meant the source package thing on p.u.c.
<ScottK> p.d.o I use for source package info all the time.
<pkern> The two sites share the codebase. ;)
<pkern> Bah, it would be too hard for git to support `update', right? /me coughs.
<ScottK> IIRC what happened is I once got burned trying to figure something out because p.u.c was lagging the archive and LP wasn't and so from then I tend to look in LP.
<pkern> Yeah ok, it's lagging.
<jeromeg> hello all
<pkern> The script is called `bin/daily' so I guess it updates only once a day ;)
<ScottK> Probably.
<ScottK> hello jeromeg
<jeromeg> who should i bother to fix bug 149763 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149763 in vim "vim: packages missing in repository" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149763
<jeromeg> it's a problem with the dapper cz.archive.ubuntu.com
<jeromeg> it seems to be incorrectly synced with the main one
<ScottK> jeromeg: Not sure, but #canonical-sysadmin comes to mind as a possibility.
<jeromeg> ScottK: ok thank you
<jeromeg> ScottK: btw did you had some time to look at the gimmie backport request ? python-sexy is ok now
<ScottK> jeromeg: I'll look now.
<jeromeg> ScottK: thx
<jeromeg> bye all
<Kopfgeldjaeger> what do i have to specify in a .desktop file if i want a application to show up in the "Open with other application" "menu" ?
<ScottK> Kopfgeldjaeger: If no one has specific suggestions, I'd suggest look here: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktop-entry-spec
<pochu> Kopfgeldjaeger: I'm not sure, but maybe the mime information?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hum.. i already added MimeType=X (and the files are associated with the applications (all but flv files..)), but it does not show up in that menu
<pochu> Kopfgeldjaeger: did you run dh_desktop?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> pochu: er... no. i copy the files manually into */applications/*. what exactly does dh_desktop do?
<pochu> It calls update-desktop-database, which I think updates the MimeType database...
<pochu> so just run update-desktop-database
<pkern_> Bloody Freenode.
<xtknight> is there a good list of targets you can use in debian/rules?
<pkern> You can use anything. :-P
<pkern> xtknight: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianrules
<pkern> get-orig-source (optional)
<xtknight> pkern, i don't see "install" or "binary-install" here
<pkern> This target fetches the most recent version of the original source package from a canonical archive site (via FTP or WWW, for example) [...] 
<pkern> Haha.
<pkern> xtknight: There isn't anything like install.
<pkern> xtknight: It's called binary.
<xtknight> pkern, e.g. "install/fluid::"
<xtknight> maybe this is something w/ debhelper?
<pkern> Maybe this is something w/ *dbs?
* pkern is scared off.
<xtknight> not sure
<xtknight> buildcore,autotools,debhelper.mk
<xtknight> trying to make a patch for bug 139980
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139980 in fltk1.1 "fluid missing menu icon" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139980
<pkern> debhelper.mk... that sounds like *dbs. I don't know anything about that!
<xtknight> and the archive admins would like it so that it only modifies debian/ for now
<xtknight> i need to figure out how to modify what actually gets placed in the deb.  like i want to move a file within the deb, at the last second, somehow by using debian/rules
<xtknight> under binary-install "mv debian/tmp/usr/share/applnk/Development/fluid.desktop debian/tmp/usr/share/applications" this didn't yield anything different in the final deb
<xtknight> ahh here we go https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2480675
<xtknight> woohoo, you can actually modify a makefile too in rules
<lamego> xtknight, are you using cdbs ?
<xtknight> lamego, i think so.  i am using debhelper
<xtknight> these rules on the page correspond with what i'm seeing in the rules file that i am modifying.
<xtknight> for example they already have some binary-install stuff there to do various things
<xtknight> well "install", "binary-predeb" rather
<xtknight> i need to move a file at the last second.  the deb gets built and file "A" gets put in it.  well i need to move file "A"  to the correct location right before it spits a .deb file out.  i have to find the right rule to do this
<xtknight> binary-predeb perhaps
<ScottK2> xtknight: What's wrong with mv ...
<lamego> if you are using debhelper you are not using cdbs :)
<xtknight> ScottK, well nothing but i need to find where to put mv ;)
<lamego> with cdbs that would go into install/package::
<xtknight> ah well first i needed  a peak at debian/fluid.install
<xtknight> peek *
<lamego> that allows to copy, not to move
<xtknight> right
<xtknight> altlhough i was copying the wrong filename
<xtknight> see when i changed applnk/Development to applications, i forgot to do it in fluid.install
<xtknight> got it working now though
<xtknight> i added my stuff to the install/fluid:: rule (move applnk/Development->applications in debian/tmp), and then in fluid.install i modified applnk/Development to applications and all is well
<imbrandon> moins fellas
<pochu> hey imbrandon, would you mind uploading liferea for me, if you have some time?
<imbrandon> pochu: yea give me a few seconds and a url to grab
<pochu> imbrandon: thanks, it's at http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/liferea_1.4.4-0ubuntu1.dsc , and these are the changes to debian/ dir: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/liferea-debian.diff
<imbrandon> pochu: kk, give me a few minutes and i'll look it over and upload it
<imbrandon> i'll prod you when its done
<pochu> Sure, thanks a lot :-)
<pwnguin> im just gonna put this out there: packaging firefox adblock without a filterset is pretty useless
<superm1> imbrandon, aren't we in a freeze right now though, are you allowed to upload to main?
<pochu> superm1, imbrandon: slangasek approved it yesterday.
<superm1> ah i see
<superm1> universe is still okay to upload to though right?  just needs a prod from ~ubuntu-archive after its in
<pochu> I think so.
<superm1> any idea on the hard freeze date for universe then?
<superm1> that we can't even do that
<imbrandon> pochu: i dont see an "ok" in the changelog refrenced anywhere, got a url for me ?
<pochu> imbrandon: an url for the approvation?
<imbrandon> yes
<pochu> imbrandon: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-devel-current.html , 01:06
<imbrandon> erm there isnt even a lp bug with it acked? i'm not sure whom slangasek is or if he has the authority to ack it or if it was actualy him on irc authenticated
<imbrandon> pochu: ^
<pkern> imbrandon: He has the authority.
<pkern> imbrandon: He's RM.
<pochu> imbrandon: I would say he was authenticated, since he has been online for ~ 3 days or so...
<pochu> slangasek: pingaling :-)
<imbrandon> pochu: i got it
<pochu> imbrandon: I'm off to bed, thanks again :-)
<pochu> Night all!
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-07
<Kopfgeldjaeger> n8
<pkern> So should we actually suggest users with ATI graphics to upgrade to Gutsy?
<persia> pkern: Not yet :)
<imbrandon> ok i'm off to dinner, if pochu comes back arround the upload is done
* imbrandon bbiab
<pkern> persia: Not even after the release I am afraid, at least not on laptops.
<Joe_CoT> persia: got the updated changelog deb diff for LP #149050. Would you be able to sponsor it? Should i subscribe to sponsors instead?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149050 in deluge-torrent "Deluge torrent client: Cannot set file priority, as it continually claims that Full Allocation is not set" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149050
<persia> Joe_CoT: You'll always want to subscribe to sponsors when you have something ready, rather than looking for individuals.  I'm not sure I'll be sponsoring anything else for gutsy, but if I do, and nobody else has already uploaded it, I may.
<Joe_CoT> persia: ok, thanks, i'll subscribe it
<superm1> pkern, why not?
<pkern> superm1: Decide: Which one do you like most: suspend or 3d acceleration?
<superm1> pkern, ah :)  wasn't sure if suspending was the thing to accuse this time around :)
<superm1> i'm on the beta team and suspending has been broken for some time for me, so i've just learned to not suspend, wasn't sure if it was still broke :)
<pkern> I'm used to suspend ever since I used an iBook.
<bluefoxicy> is vmware-server not coming for gutsy?
<bluefoxicy> vmware-player and virtualbox lack kernel modules ...
<pkern> There was a recent article on planet.u.c about the vbox modules.
<bluefoxicy> u.c?
<pkern> ubuntu.com
<bluefoxicy> oh
<pkern> ScottK: python-debian supports Version objects (and changelog objects) so that would be a no-brainer. ;)
<pkern> ScottK: But maybe we should talk with pitti *first* to confirm if the format still holds.
* pkern is off to bed.
<LaserJock> so did I miss something? why have I got ~350 updates today?
<imbrandon> slow mail server ?
<LaserJock> imbrandon?
<imbrandon> no idea, was a wild guess
<LaserJock> it just seemed odd for an RC freeze
<imbrandon> i only made one upload and it was a approved , sponsored upload
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> I've gotta upload edubuntu-docs tonight
<imbrandon> ;)
<crimsun> pfft.  It's no fun if there aren't hourly multi-hundred MiB updates!
<imbrandon> crimsun: hehe yea
<LaserJock> crimsun: hello
<crimsun> hi
<LaserJock> crimsun: how's Washington?
<crimsun> it's capitol-y.
<imbrandon> nice word :)
<LaserJock> I spent a week staying out by Arlington for an American Chemical Society meeting
<LaserJock> it was fairly nice
<bddebian> whoa, crimsun!
<crimsun> (where?!)
<bddebian> ^--- there :-)
<bddebian> OK I'm working with the Debian games team now and I'm still not convinced that svn doesn't SUCK for package management :-)
<imbrandon> s/svr/RCS/g
<imbrandon> svn* damn
<bddebian> I knew what you meant :-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<tonyyarusso> rcs?
<imbrandon> revision control systems, svn,cvs,bzr
<tonyyarusso> ah
* Fujitsu ponders going on a wontfixing spree through universe at some point.
<imbrandon> great for code, sucks for package management, imho, package mnagement seems to be much more a "one man job"
<bddebian> Heh, go for it
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Just mark them all won't fix after Gutsy releases ;-P
* imbrandon ponders fixing some last minute universe bugs
<bddebian> We'll just start fresh after every release from now on..
* Fujitsu curses the Baltix default.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: get to it : )
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: sounds good.
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hiya!
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<white> anyone wants (or is) subscribed to
<white> secure-testing-commits@lists.alioth.debian.org
<white> or at least checking
<white> secure-testing-announce@lists.alioth.debian.org
<Fujitsu> white: Aha, I'll subscribe.
<bddebian> More spam.. :)
<white> Fujitsu: is the universe security team active?
<white> it would be nice to get cooperation done :)
<bddebian> Is there a universe security team?
<white> i could do some randon checking now :)
<white> !info util-linux gutsy
<ubotu> util-linux: Miscellaneous system utilities. In component main, is required. Version 2.13-8ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 426 kB, installed size 1364 kB
<tonyyarusso> bddebian: motu-swat, iirc
<white> or easier, someone could check, if the security fixes from http://security-tracker.debian.net/tracker/status/dtsa-candidates are included in gutsy
<Amaranth> white: You probably want to talk to pitti or keescook
<white> Amaranth: apparently they are doing main
<white> Amaranth: i was offering something for univers
<white> e
<Amaranth> white: util-linux is in main
<white> the version 2.13-8ubuntu1 looks fixed to me
<LaserJock> security-tracker.debian.net is so awesome
<white> Amaranth: and i am bringing it up, because i forget to theck here and it would be nice to get an ubuntu person to do it
<white> LaserJock: indeed :)
<LaserJock> saved me loads of time doing the moodle MIR
<Amaranth> moodle? isn't that an edubuntu thing?
<Amaranth> oh right, you're an edubuntu guy :P
<LaserJock> Amaranth: pfft
<LaserJock> hmm, still need to get that interview up :/
* Hobbsee hides
* LaserJock puts on his doom-proof pants and pokes Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee pokes LaserJock back, with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: Do you have a shortcut for that phrase?
* ScottK moves to the other side of the room from tonyyarusso.
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: Did you see my comments on the kompozer backport request?
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: I saw one, to the effect of "sounds like a good idea - test?"
<ScottK> That one.
<ScottK> Please test.
<tonyyarusso> well, um, it's installed on my feisty system right now, does that count?
<ScottK> Yes. it does.
<ScottK> Just say in the bug that you've built and installed it on Feisty and it works.
<tonyyarusso> Okay.  It builds both in a local pbuilder and on LP PPA.
<ScottK> I need it in the bug.
<tonyyarusso> done
* ScottK looks.
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: Acked to the archive.  They usually do backports about once a week.
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: neat.  Any thoughts on whether we should try for Edgy/Dapper as well?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Would you please ack Bug #148548.  We updated gnucash, we really ought to do the docs too.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 148548 in gnucash-docs "Gnucash-docs is 2.0.1 while it should be 2.2.0" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148548
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: Can you test on Edgy/Dapper?
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: If I take the time to read some pbuilder docs, yeah.  There's already a PPA build for Edgy as well.
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: It's not just building.  I need you to say it installs and runs.
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: I can test that for Dapper for sure; not sure where I'll find an Edgy installation.
<tonyyarusso> I'm sure if I ping enough people I could.
<LaserJock> vmware/virtualbox?
<tonyyarusso> no experience in that department..
<tonyyarusso> Live CD could work I suppose
<imbrandon> or "pbuilder-edgy login' then install and test it
<imbrandon> ;)
<tonyyarusso> what now?
<imbrandon> as in ?
<tonyyarusso> pbuilder-edgy login would just let you log into the command line system of the base.tgz, I take it?
<tonyyarusso> How would I test a graphical app in that environment?
<ScottK> LiveCD would do it.  Dunno about the rest.
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: install it and launch it?
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: would it use my feisty's X?
<nenolod> probably
<LaserJock> I suppose
<nenolod> X is X. it doesn't really change ABI very often
<nenolod> (Xlib, that is)
<imbrandon> you might need to allow X connections from localhost, like 'xhost +` prior to pbuilder login
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso: ^ but other than that should work fine
<tonyyarusso> interesting
<jdong> imbrandon: xhost + is a big more than localhost if the system is not properly configured though ;-)
<nenolod> oh, use X inside a pbuilder?
<imbrandon> yea if you dont setup your router correctly it can be a security bug, man xhost for more indepth info
<nenolod> he just needs to do xhost +localhost
<nenolod> it'll work provided that your debian/rules sets DISPLAY=:0
<jdong> nenolod: right, I was gonna say xhost +localhost is more cautious
<nenolod> (probably in configuration phase, right?)
<imbrandon> shouldent matter, should default to 0
<imbrandon> err :0
<imbrandon> e.g. the following should work fine , `xhost +localhost` `pbuilder-edgy login` `apt-get install amarok` `amarok`
<nenolod> no
<nenolod> DISPLAY must be set, otherwise Xlib will not connect to the X server
<nenolod> there is no defaults in Xlib
<nenolod> (and thus any toolkits ontop of Xlib, e.g. Qt)
<imbrandon> e.g. the following should work fine , `xhost +localhost` `pbuilder-edgy login` `apt-get install amarok` `export DISPLAY=:0` `amarok`
<imbrandon> :)
<nenolod> :)
<imbrandon> no source changes
<LaserJock> well, I used to use a chroot and bindmount ~/ and it's work fine for that kind of thing
<LaserJock> *it'd
<imbrandon> LaserJock: esentialy the same thing
<imbrandon> pbuilder is just a self cleaning [sic]  chroot
<LaserJock> right, but I believe that getting ~/ and hence .Xauthority into the chroot was the key thig
<imbrandon> ahh
<jdong> imbrandon: for X /tmp needs bindmounting too; that's where the sockets usually are
<imbrandon> nah there should be a tmp in the chroot, you dont want to nessesarly give it access
<nenolod> just do xhost +localhost and export DISPLAY=:0
<nenolod> ;p
<Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: perhaps.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: please do it.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: OK.
<Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: there are ways to test grapical bits in a chroot.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I already test built it, so I'll turn it into a sync request.
<Hobbsee> ah, you found it
<Hobbsee> ScottK: great
<Hobbsee> ScottK: will leave you to handle it then
* LaserJock crosses his fingers and toes
<LaserJock> crap
<bddebian> not here please :-)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Done.
<ScottK> jdong: You still around.
<jdong> ScottK: half-awake, but yeah
<ScottK> jdong: What happened to all the backports testing people?
* Hobbsee ate them
<ScottK> jdong: I think you need to rustle up some more ...
<jdong> ScottK: I'm not sure myself, seems like a lot of them are mysteriously idle
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Yummy?
<Hobbsee> indeed!
<jdong> ScottK: I'll send out an e-mail to the backports testing folk and see if I can whip em back
<ScottK> jdong: Then Hobbsee's explaination fits...
<jdong> ScottK: lol they're nutritious :)
<ScottK> Or however you spell that word.
<Hobbsee> explanation
<ScottK> jdong: Remember: Sleep is for the weak.
<ScottK> Yeah, that.
<jdong> lol, but I am weak :)
* LaserJock thinks about strangling the person who decided that "using your computer in your own language" was important ;-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: I'm not sure, but that may be a CoC violation, so don't do it on IRC.
<LaserJock> hehe
* Hobbsee wonders why this music has stopped working.
<LaserJock> wahoo, it works
<LaserJock> now all those non-English speaking people can read the docs
<Hobbsee> heh
<LaserJock> I've spent the last 3 hrs working on the translations for edubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> had to build several scripts
<LaserJock> and rewrite debian/rules
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<LaserJock> \o/, uploaded
<LaserJock> hopefully that's my last upload for gutsy
<Hobbsee> aww
<LaserJock> now hopefully slangasek or pitti lets it threw
<LaserJock> hmm, *through
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: we have more than 2 people in the release team, fortunately :P
<LaserJock> I thought one of those two had to approve an RC freeze exception
<LaserJock> shesh, the gutsy branch of doc team svn repo is ~550MB
<ScottK> LaserJock: That's nothing.  I remember some guy talking about doing a checking of the Debian LaTex tree and it being huge.
<LaserJock> umm, that was me
<LaserJock> and it was 20GB
<tonyyarusso> oof
<ScottK> I know.  I just thought it was kind of funny that way.
<LaserJock> heh, right
<LaserJock> but we're supposed to move the doc team repo to bzr
<LaserJock> which makes 500MB a bit more troublesome to me
<ScottK> But bzr is wonderful.  Everyone here says so.
<LaserJock> heh, I haven't really gotten that impression exactly
<LaserJock> it's great for local stuff
<LaserJock> but the remote stuff is still so slow
<LaserJock> but the doc team repo is the last Canonical svn repo
<LaserJock> so the sysadmins don't want to maintain it anymore
<ScottK> Well good luck.  I'm off to bed.
<LaserJock> cya ScottK
<slangasek> imbrandon: packages don't have to be acked by the release team before being uploaded, if they're uploads to main and they don't fit the freeze rules they can just be rejected :)
<AnAnt> Hello, if I am making a package for a work that is under LPPL license, the complete text for this license is not in /usr/share/common-licenses/, should I then include the complete text in the debian/copyright file  ? or is it enough to have something like this statement: http://pastebin.com/m16fc5080  ?
* Fujitsu wonders if he can safely hijack a UVFe that was approved a month ago but never fulfilled.
<persia> AnAnt: The complete text of the license should be in debian/copyright.  The URL may not be available to a user (perhaps they are offline) when they check.
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> persia: how about installing it in /usr/share/common-licenses/ ?!
<Fujitsu> AnAnt: Is it a particularly common license?
<AnAnt> Fujitsu: for those using LaTeX, I think so
<persia> AnAnt: That directory is reserved for common licenses, for which large numbers of programs are using.  As an example of the threshold, the ISC license is not included, and we've heaps of ISC code.  Similarly, none of the CC licenses, although that is fairly prevalent.
<AnAnt> k
<persia> AnAnt: If you think it's common enough, feel free to post a bug against base-files to include it: be sure to list all the packages that use it in the bug, to demonstrate that it would save significant space on a user's system.
<AnAnt> ok, how can I indent several lines with 4 spaces in vim ?!
<AnAnt> nevermind about the last question
<AnAnt> thanks
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Are you still around?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: fsvo around, what's up?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Just wondering if I'm going to be killed for uploading a new upstream version, the UVFe for which was filed by somebody else, and approved a month ago.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: unlikely
<Hobbsee> although why wasnt it uploaded then?
<Hobbsee> that's a good question, actually
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: REVU was down, and the reporter isn't a MOTU.
<Fujitsu> So it got lost.
<Hobbsee> ah yes
<Hobbsee> no idea if archive admins will get time to review it
<Fujitsu> Are they meant to be reviewing things at this point?
<Fujitsu> I thought they were just giving them a glance and letting them through.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: for new packages?  dream on.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: `a new upstream version'
<nenolod> slangasek, yay for auto-rejections :P
<nenolod> Fujitsu, a new upstream version won't be approved until gutsy ISOs are built. if you're shooting for gutsy +1 and your package is OK, then it will probably pass through reviewers at that time
<nenolod> but... uploads targeted at gutsy itself will likely be auto-rejected :P
<persia> auto-rejected?  I don't think that's the case for packages not destined for ISO inclusion (or, really, anything in universe).
<nenolod> well ISO building also includes gutsy archive finalization too
<nenolod> and even the topic says universe is frozen for upstream versions and new packages
<nenolod> ;p
<Fujitsu> nenolod: Erm, what? ISOs have very little to do with anything, it has already been approved, and I'm a MOTU so it doesn't need review.
<nenolod> Fujitsu, well ok :P
<persia> nenolod:  That seems to contradict https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-October/002411.html.  Are you sure?  Why?
<nenolod> persia, i'm going by what is implied by the text in the topic
<Fujitsu> nenolod: Right, UVF and NPF in effect. I have an exception, although it is old.
<persia> nenolod: Ah.  Yes.  New upstreams are frozen.  There is a freeze exception process, and so some (very few) things can be approved.
<nenolod> persia, yes i understand that.
<nenolod> Fujitsu, yes. i understood that point. hince the "well, ok"
<sladen> two week folks, then we can upload whatever we want!
<Fujitsu> sladen: Two weeks + UDS + toolchain settling.
<nenolod> i do hope that gutsy will ship with audacious-plugins that are not built with SSE2
<Fujitsu> nenolod: Why?
<DarkMageZ> cause some of us don't have sse2
<nenolod> Fujitsu, because not everyone has SSE2 ;)
<persia> nenolod: If it doesn't detect at runtime, that's a bug (and should be reported).
<nenolod> it has been reported
<nenolod> upstream anyway
<Fujitsu> I don't see the bug in Ubuntu..
<nenolod> yeah, i'll check
<nenolod> ah. it's debbugs
<persia> nenolod: It's a good idea to get the bug in both places, if it's verified an issue in Ubuntu: upstream may have a different threshhold ("I cannot imagine why anyone would want to not use optimisation" is something I recently saw on a different upstream mailing list).
<nenolod> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=423833
<ubotu> Debian bug 423833 in audacious "audacious: Crash (illegal instruction) when playing MP3 file" [Normal,Fixed] 
<nenolod> of ypi want, o
<nenolod> lets try that again
<nenolod> if you want, i'll clone it in LP
<Fujitsu> nenolod: If you could file a bug in LP, and add a Debian task linked to that bug, it'd be nice.
<nenolod> (it's fixed in debian)
<nenolod> ah.
<nenolod> gutsy has it already
<Fujitsu> nenolod: Yeah, we have that version.
<nenolod> great :P
<nenolod> because some people have flamed over that already
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<nenolod> i need to report a bug in NetworkManager, but I think I will wait until morning for that
<nenolod> i'm not awake enough to think right now ;)
<nenolod> i'm also not yet convinced that it is not a bug in madwifi too ;)
<pkern> LongPointyStick: Thanks. ;)
<pkern> Haha@everybody loves the Debian cabal.
<DEVIUS> hi all
<AlinuxOS> Hello All ;)
<DEVIUS> I'm about to take www.ubuntu-ge.org domain and make it Ubuntu official support for georgian users
<AlinuxOS> + setup Ubuntu LOCO team.
<AlinuxOS> DEVIUS, let's try on #ubuntu-locoteams
<AlinuxOS> maybe someone is alive :)
<persia> Would anyone with a i386 and working GL be willing to test something for me?
<Fujitsu> persia: Sure.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.  launch torcs, make sure your audio backend is set to openal, get around the first curve of the default course, and hit something (another car, the wall, etc.).
<persia> It crashes on AMD64 due to differences in MMX compilation from gcc3.x to gcc4.x, and upstream's fix is really intrusive: I'm just not sure whether to disable the offending file for only AMD64 or for everything.
<StevenK> Yay, torcs!
<Fujitsu> Wow, torcs is fairly big.
* Fujitsu downloadsd.
<StevenK> ... but MMX is just register fildding, how would amd64 kill it?
* StevenK works on a present for Ubuntu virtualbox users.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: What would that be?
<persia> StevenK: From what I can tell, there's a difference in the way that SIMD detection works with gcc 4.0 and optimisation, such that you need to have different #ifdef statements for newer compilers.
<StevenK> % head -n 1 debian/control
<StevenK> Source: virtualbox-ose-modules
<StevenK> Fujitsu: ^
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Aha.
<StevenK> persia: But SIMD isn't MMX.
<persia> StevenK: Huh?  MMX is one of many SIMD APIs.  Lead me...
<StevenK> persia: MMX came first - SSE came after.
<persia> StevenK: Yes.
<StevenK> persia: I don't know much more than that, though. :-)
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  From what I can tell looking at upstream CVS and the intel docs on MMX, MMX can be SISD or SIMD, but is usually SIMD, using packed registers (4 16-bits in a 64-bit).  It seems that newer gccs use a different set of controls to decide how to optimise.  If the code is written to the old MMX target, and doesn't have good runtime detection, it may get incorrectly optimised.
<Fujitsu> persia: I've gone a fair way around the track, and managed to run into a lot of walls (I'm *so* great at such games), no crashing.
<persia> Fujitsu: And this is with the openal audio backend, and with working sound?
<Fujitsu> Yep.
* StevenK chuckles at Fujitsu 
<persia> Fujitsu: Excellent.  Thanks for testing that.  I'll only disable MMX for x86_64 targets then,
* StevenK pictures Fujitsu listening to "vroom, crash, vroom, crash, ..."
<Fujitsu> More `vroom, crash, skid, spin, oh look at that car that has lapped me for the second time'
<persia> Fujitsu: You can choose everyone's cars if you want.  It's a little easier if you have a F1 and they have dune buggies.
<Fujitsu> persia: I'm sure I'd still lose.
<persia> Fujitsu: Then you have special skills :)
* Fujitsu goes back to something a little better. Like coding.
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<persia> StevenK: As the master of all library transitions: could you suggest any means to make sure that a modified libopenal0 works with all the rdepends without finding a way to expose the MMX issue in each game?
<rexbron> persia: how goes it?
<persia> rexbron: It appears that I've found an issue upstream fixed last march, but somehow never got merged.  If only it were earlier in the dev cycle...
<rexbron> :(
<rexbron> but it will be fixed upstream for hardy correct?
<persia> rexbron: Depends.  Upstream hasn't actually had a release in a while, and is sponsored by Creative and Apple, so most of the development has been targeted towards Windows and Mac OS X.
<rexbron> persia: best of luck (and lots of good work) then
<persia> rexbron: Thanks.
<persia> Anyone feel like packaging a 1-line SRU for Dapper?  #86212.
<DktrKranz> hi persia, welcome back :)
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<DktrKranz> I looked at that bug, a user already provided a patch
<DktrKranz> maybe he could do the job
<DktrKranz> if not, I will be happy to manage myself
<persia> DktrKranz: Right.  Someone just needs to make a Dapper debdiff, and go through the SRU process.  It's easy, but needs someone to watch it.
<persia> (and verify the problem & solution in Dapper).
<DktrKranz> no proble to verify it
<persia> DktrKranz: Great.  Thanks.
<DktrKranz> give me ten minutes, I have to finish a couple of things before...
<persia> DktrKranz: No big rush.  The bug has been around for a while :)
<DktrKranz> I see :)
<DktrKranz> is it relevant for edgy too?
<persia> DktrKranz: I'm not sure.
<DktrKranz> ok, I'll check for edgy too
<persia> rexbron: I've just taken a quick look at the genpo package.  You'll want to run the lintian and linda commands recommended in w.u.c/MOTU/Contributing on .dsc, and then on the .changes when you build it.  Remember to use `bzr export` :)
<DktrKranz> persia, confirmed on Dapper, Edgy is affected too, could you please add a task?
<persia> DktrKranz: added.
<DktrKranz> that patch needs additional love
<persia> DktrKranz: Yes it does :)
<DktrKranz> at least, it requires an if clause to check if /var/run/smokeping is already present
<DktrKranz> otherwise, it will raise an error
<DktrKranz> I will report this to the user, asking if he want to manage those SRUs
<persia> DktrKranz: I thought the -p took care of that.  Does it not work for the final directory?
<DktrKranz> persia, IIRC it creates parent directories, not sure if it checks if the final one exists
<persia> DktrKranz: I can't replicate any issues with breaking on existing directories with -p (even in dash)
<DktrKranz> yes, it works
<DarkMageZ> is there a way to get pbuilder to automatically generate -dbgsym packages of anything it builds?
<DktrKranz> DarkMageZ, IIRC you can install pkg-create-dbgsym
<DktrKranz> if you insert it into the default set, you should get them automatically
<persia> DarkMageZ: Install pkg-create-dbgsym in the pbuilder chroot
<DarkMageZ> ah, great :) ty
<persia> Anyone with i386 and working GL willing to test the patch from bug #149806?  The test case is to compile and install a new libopenal0, start torcs, turn around the first bend, and crash into something.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149806 in openal "OpenAL has unsafe MMX support on AMD64" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149806
<DarkMageZ> persia, i'll give it a shot
<persia> DarkMageZ: Thanks.
<DarkMageZ> persia, i've pulled the orig.tar.gz & diff.gz & .dsc, but how do i apply a debdiff? patch -p0 file didn't seem to be happy
<persia> DarkMageZ: No?  Hmm.  Let me check that again...
<DarkMageZ> persia, nvm. noob error on my part
<persia> DarkMageZ: OK.  I was worried there :)
<DarkMageZ> what was create the diff & dsc without signing again? it was something like debuild -us -uc
<persia> DarkMageZ: exactly
<persia> DarkMageZ: Alternately, you can use a pbuilder or sbuild (or deb-o-matic :) )
<DarkMageZ> trippy. it says my system doesn't have the dependencies. i thought that command wasn't going to try and build it.
<pkern> DarkMageZ: -S
<persia> DarkMageZ: That command doesn't sign it.  -S doesn't build it.
<pkern> DarkMageZ: Well it's called de*build*
<DarkMageZ> ah, there it goes :) building.
<DktrKranz> persia, deb-o-matic? did you use it in the past?
<persia> DktrKranz: I remember looking at it a couple months ago, but I'm fairly fixed on sbuild for now.
<jdong> bug 150130
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150130 in xserver-xgl "Xgl causes noise when scrolling" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150130
<DktrKranz> well, I started to write it just because I don't like wanna-build
<persia> DktrKranz: Makes sense.  I don't have enough local package needs to get much beyond just building things, although I'll probably become more interested if I ever get more than one supported architecture working at once.
<DktrKranz> it's a wanted feature, waiting for qemubuilder to became more stable
<persia> DktrKranz: Now that's an interesting way to do it :)
<DktrKranz> (I should have said waiting for qemubuilder AND qemu to become more stable, especially on sparc)
<DktrKranz> I have kernel panics each time :(
<persia> heh
<pkern> What does deb-o-matic do?
<DktrKranz> pkern, it's an automatic package builder. it uses pbuilder as engine. users upload source packages on a given directory with dput (or similar) and it gets them built
<DktrKranz> it has some good features, others will come
<pkern> Well I use reprepro for repository management. How does it determine what needs to be built?
<DktrKranz> it has an "incoming queue"
<DktrKranz> it scans it on a regular basis (by default every 60 seconds), determines which package should be built (based on priority)
<DktrKranz> and, after updating pbuilder (if there is need to do so), it starts build process as pbuilder does
<pkern> And update the chroot beforehand to grok updated builddeps?
<pkern> Hm.
<DktrKranz> it does only if archives has changed since last build
<pkern> How does it "interface" with "archives"?
<DktrKranz> when fetching packages or when checking if update is required?
<pkern> I guess I'll look at the source next week. I want to get an amd64 autobuilder for our archive.
<DktrKranz> well, it's not a professional tool now, just a toy for someone who has not time to wait for pbuilder to finish long builds :)
<pkern> Well I need something asynchronous. I would be able to register new builds in reprepro hooks but here I would need to copy the package somewhere and get the result imported into reprepro again. (The latter could be solved if the built packages are placed into a seperate queue directory and the possiblity to call a script after each build to import it.)
<pkern> And although we use PostgreSQL I still don't want to install dak and/or wanna-build ;)
<pkern> Currently at 110 binary packages, more to come as Etch gets older.
<DarkMageZ> persia, done. no odd results. cept for sound stuttering
<DktrKranz> pkern, you can set a "incoming" directory as you wish, you will need source packages and related sources.changes file
<DktrKranz> so, it won't bother reprepro
<pkern> I don't have _source.changes currently.
<pkern> That's another point. ;)
<persia> pkern: No _source.changes?  How does that happen?
<pkern> persia: It's Debian. We build it for i386.
<pkern> Point is that we don't want the second step of shelling on another box and doing a -B build.
<persia> DarkMageZ: Sound stuttering?  Does it do that with the libopenal0a from the repositories?
<DarkMageZ> persia, yup. so that's not a regression :)
<DktrKranz> pkern, you may want use a older release, when it used .dsc files to start build process
<persia> DarkMageZ: OK.  Thanks.
<pkern> DktrKranz: _<somerandomarch>.changes aren't that different ;) But I would have to dig into the code if that would be a solution for me.
<pkern> It's a pity that Julien wrote rebuildd specific for the task of rebuilding packages.
<DktrKranz> right, I would have used that
<DktrKranz> instead of writing a buggy, unuseful, redundant piece of code :)
<pkern> I mean probably that would be solved with a wrapper around apt-get source to apt-get update first.
<pkern> And then enqueue the jobs after they got imported into the archive (and after an export of the lists obviously).
<minghua> WTF is bug 150205
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150205 in baltix "Make menu items labels more consistent and clear" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150205
<persia> minghua: Someone didn7t read the HIG, but noticed that it's not implemented 100%
<pkern> minghua: Just a bit late?
<pkern> persia: s/didn7t/did/?
<persia> pkern: Ah.  ' is shift-7 on my keyboard layout, and I broke my finger this morning, so my typing's a bit funny.
<pkern> I could still kill the Gnome devs for having merged Font into Appearance. /me grumbles.
<minghua> persia: I wouldn't mind if he submit bugs to each package, but just one bug and subscribe everyone?
<pkern> persia: There was also a change in the meaning in my question.
<persia> minghua: I'd agree with that.  It's a per-package issue.
<persia> pkern: Right.  The bug submitter's suggestions are closer to HIG, but not HIG compliant.
<minghua> pkern: I personally like the new appearance dialog.
<pkern> persia: k ;)
<pkern> minghua: I use different Gnome versions.
<pkern> (Yeah with that argument no change would be possible.)
<minghua> heh.
<pkern> Currently I'm on 2.14 ;)
<minghua> persia: The bug reporter apparently doesn't realize those strings appear in other places as well, such as KDE and Xfce.
<persia> minghua: I thought Xfce preferred HIG-compliant naming.  I don't know about KDE.
* minghua is not sure which HIG we should follow.
<minghua> There is no FreeDesktop HIG as far as I know.
<persia> Hrm.  There ought to be an abstraction of shared data.  http://developer.kde.org/documentation/standards/kde/style/basics/ and http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/ really don't seem to match that closely.
<minghua> That's exactly my point.
<persia> From what I can tell, there'll be something new from KDE as part of KDE4 development (but I would think at least a draft would be somewhere by now...)
<minghua> IMHO this is just lazy bug reporting, pointing out problems and hope others will do the hard work to fix it.
* minghua is very attempted to label the scim part "Won't Fix".
<persia> minghua: Well, yes, but sometimes that's useful too.  There's quite a few things I've fixed only because someone complained.  On the other hand "won't fix" or "upstream" seem appropriate responses for the busy maintainer.
<persia> (especially for such a badly filed bug)
<minghua> I'm just attempted.  I'm not going to change it to "won't fix".
<minghua> persia: Generally I don't mind lazy bug reporting, but this one makes me quite angry.
<persia> minghua: You mean because the reporter didn't even bother to really firmly suggest alternatives, just whined about it?
<minghua> If I change the scim part to "wishlist", and add comment about what should be done, I'll be spamming other maintainer.
<persia> Ah, yes, making it useless for discussion.
<minghua> persia: No, mainly the "throw everything in one report because it's easy for me" attitude.
<proppy> hi
<persia> Interestingly enough, there's a lot of traffic on the mailing lists, etc. that would imply that we prefer fewer bugs (we have too many to process), and there are several people who would start leaving "don't mass-file" comments if someone were to open a series of similar bugs, but for actual bug management, a targeted bug is much more useful.
* pkern understands the point about flooding other maintainers but feels that a meta bug is in this case appropriate. \:
<pkern> Probably LP should support such meta bugs to easily track issues belonging together. \:
<minghua> pkern: There isn't really much point about a meta bug.  Many other .desktop files don't have HIG-compliant name either, he reported those just because those are installed by default.
<persia> pkern: Right, but how does one handle subscriptions?  I like to be subscribed to bugs I might fix, bugs I know how to fix that I might pass to someone, bugs in the packages I watch, and bugs I have on my system.  I have little interest in other bugs, and don't want to get discussion traffic in my mailbox for those.
<minghua> persia: I skipped the whole thread about bug management. :-)
<persia> minghua: That's probably for the best :)  Anyway, it was more about LP bug statuses than about few/many or meta/targeted.
<minghua> Same with persia, especially since I put scim bugmails at a very high priority among my mailboxes, getting irrelevant discussions there really pisses me off.
<minghua> persia: Yes, I know it starts from ScottK's "LP people shouldn't tell MOTUs what is the correct way to use LP". :-P
<minghua> s/starts/started/
<persia> minghua: I'd say it's more complicated than that, but it's not an important distinction.
<minghua> I know I was over-simplifying.  Thus the smiley.
* persia needs to enroll in the graduate emoticons course to interpret these things properly
<minghua> Hey, isn't Japan _the_ country of smileys?
<minghua> ...on a second thought, that's probably why it's possible to enroll in a "graduate emoticon course". :-)
<persia> minghua: Yep.  There's a heap of interesting examples in http://www.2chan.net/
<persia> Or, better, http://2ch.net/
<pkern> That looks so Japanese-ish.
<persia> pkern: The best bit is that 90% of users are on 320x240 or less.
<pkern> bigon: Is there anything particular in the aiccu updates that you want to see in Gutsy?
<pkern> People continue to run into the fglrx+suspend issue. /me ponders to write a planet.u.c post.
<persia> pkern: I believe an updated package has been prepared, and is waiting for merge (unless I completely fail to understand the issue: a distinct possibility)
<pkern> persia: Uh, where what how?
<pkern> persia: The only heared won't fix from various sides.
<pkern> i.e. that gutsy will ship like that.
<superm1> updated package, with what driver?  8.41 breaks any workstation cards
<superm1> eg firegl
<superm1> and it says in the release note for maintainers not to ship it
<pkern> So it will be downgraded? I don't think that solves *that* issue I am talking about.
<bigon> pkern: not really
<pkern> 8.37.6 is in Gutsy
<pkern> bigon: Aye, because I tend to NACK it. Simply because there isn't really a benefit and the risk of breakage at this point.
<persia> pkern: Ah.  Nevermind.  I'm completely mistaken (xorg ati vs. ati frglx)
<pkern> That issue I talk about is obviously not even considered release notes-worthy.
<pkern> Bah.
<pkern> But a post would probably be phrased too harsh.
<pkern> How would I betatest Gutsy if I weren't at university... fetched one day full of updates (30M) in 5s. o_O
<jdong> is the APSL or whatever license Apple Darwin's userspace is under considered kosher for Universe?
<jdong> I'm considering packaging a bit of the HFS+ utils (namely fsck_hfs and newfs_hfs)...
<jdong> as our current ones are nearly useless with Macpods and modern HFS volumes
<pkern> bigon: The configuration/init script problem is not a regression.
<pkern> Fun, I guess I need to revamp the debconf scripts next week. ;)
<ScottK> jdong: Do you have a link to the license?
<jdong> ScottK: http://www.opensource.apple.com/apsl/2.0.txt
<jdong> APSL 2.0 AFAIK
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> jdong: I think the patent provisions may be problematic.  The rest seems fine.  Not sure.
<jdong> ScottK: interesting...
<jdong> ScottK: I'll play around with the code a bit more; it's all BSD makefiles too.... gonna be "fun" to get it to build under Ubuntu :)
<mssever> I'm developing a program that depends on libdaemonize-ruby. Someone recently complained that there is no such package in Gutsy. Since I'm not yet running Gutsy, can someone verify this and/or find the proper name for the gutsy package?
<pkern> There's libdaemons-ruby...
<pkern> Daemons provides an easy way to wrap existing ruby scripts (for example a self-written server) to be run as a daemon and to be controlled by simpl start/stop/restart commands. daemons can also run and control blocks of Ruby code in a daemon process.
<mssever> Is that the same lib as libdaemonize?
<pkern> That's what I ask you :-P
<pkern> Don't know, at least there's no libdaemonize
<mssever> pkern: hmm I'll look onto that
<pkern> I don't find s.th. like daemonize on rubygems.
<pkern> Just `daemons'.
<mssever> Well, it appears that libdaemons-ruby isn't the same as libdaemonize-ruby--which is in feisty
<mssever> Any chance of getting libdaemonize-ruby back in Gutsy?
<pkern> mssever: See http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=428979
<ubotu> Debian bug 428979 in ftp.debian.org "RM: libdaemonize-ruby -- RoM; superseded by libdaemons-ruby" [Normal,Open] 
<mssever> Thanks for that link. I guess I'll update the depends field of my package and see if I get bug reports...
<pkern> Uh oh.
<Kmos> bug 144258
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144258 in scribes "[UVFe]  Please sync scribes (universe) 0.3.2.9-1 from Debian Unstable (main)" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144258
<Kmos> need another ack and subscribe to ubuntu archive
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-29
<csilk> is it possible to get packages added to the intrepid freeze at any point (except the next freeze) during intreoids life span?
<csilk> *intrepids
<csilk> or the life span of any release for that matter
<csilk> wait.. sorry, stupid question
<csilk> ignore that
<persia> superm1: Oops.  Hadn't even thought about that.  Much better.
<superm1> persia, i sent the collective of our patches to the upstream mailing list. they're pretty slow at responding though, so i wouldnt expect to see them accepted upstream before they're determined at our level
<persia> superm1: Thanks!  I'm not worried about when they accept/reject them, but getting them there should make this easier for jaunty.
<superm1> persia, ack
<Elbrus> I heard people use debdiff to see differences between uploads to mentors...
<Elbrus> But if I read the man-page it talks about changed files in the package.. How to see changes in the debian dir with debdiff?
<persia> Elbrus: You can use filterdiff to extract only the changes in the debian/ directory.  For packages where patches are applied at build-time, it's a good idea to review changes outside debian/ to make sure there aren't any.  For packages that apply patches at packaging-time, it's important to also inspect the changes outside debian/ to see the effects of these patches.
<Elbrus> persia: aren't patches always unapplied (that is reversed) on packaging-time? At least with pdebuild?
<persia> Elbrus: Well, sorta, but not necessarily.
<persia> Essentially, all the patches live in the diff.gz, so no matter how patches are applied in a package, it is true that patches are applied at build time, just because the package is unpacked.
<persia> Some people use something like quilt, or dpatch, or cdbs's simple-patchsys to manage their patches.  In this case, the patches are applied from the diff.gz into debian/patches/* or ./patches/*, and then later applied against the code at build-time.
<Elbrus> persia: so I want to see the differences in the diff.gz file, but how to do that in a sensible sense (if it is large)?
<persia> Other people use other techniques to manage patches (e.g. layered VCS), and so the patches apply to the sources directly in the diff.gz
<superm1> persia, Marcel (whom just commented on that bug) is upstream.  his comment makes this whole problem most curious
<Elbrus> persia: the package I am now talking about uses quilt, but I did not come up with it, but I need a bug patched to build my package
<persia> Elbrus: lsdiff, debdiff, filterdiff, and similar help, but really it's a matter of either reading all the changes, or determining that you don't have to read some somehow (this is often dangerous)
<persia> Elbrus: If it uses quilt, you oughtn't see any changes outside debian/ but also there shouldn't be any changes outside debian/ : if there are, quilt isn't being used in the typical fashion.
<Elbrus> persia: I do want to see the difference, to check if I ONLY changed the debian/patches directory
<persia> Elbrus: Right.  debdiff foo.dsc bar.dsc | lsdiff will show you the files you changes.
<persia> s/s\./d./
<persia> superm1: OK.  In that case we simply don't know why it's broken.  Have you heard anything else to indicate any way it could be fixed for 0.28?
<superm1> persia, well we've *tried* it with 0.28
<superm1> persia, and it didn't work
<persia> superm1: Right.  0.28 is broken.  1.5 works.  On the other hand, based on what Marcel says, I'm not sure that we've identified the reason.  It may be possible to write a patch that fixes 0.28.
<persia> On the other hand, I think the general state of 1.5 is better than the general state of 0.28 at this point: it's a matter of time to track down the issue (I *much* prefer crashes to this sort of thing: nice map), and fix it vs. the risk of BlueZ 4.x in intrepid.
<persia> If you heard something to indicate not only that the problem has nothing to do with btusb, but that the problem is known, or there is a solution, I think 0.28 is the safer choice.  If you've not heard anything, then 1.5 at least has the benefit of working.
<superm1> persia, well the question then is what is the risk of bluez 4.x at this point
<superm1> that's not elaborated on the bug right now
<persia> Well, it's a new version that hasn't gotten much testing, vs a version that has gotten a bunch of testing (and doesn't happen to work).
<superm1> persia, well given that i've not seen reports of this failed keyboard pairing - yet we both saw it immediately, i'm not so sure that its gotten a much of testing...
<superm1> persia, but "theoretically" has received more testing :)
<persia> We don't know what bugs may lurk.  It works better for you and I and crevette and mlind, but that's not exactly widespread testing.
<superm1> right
<persia> Right :)
<persia> Personally, I don't think anyone really tested 3.x in intrepid properly, except for a bunch of us looking at Symbian obex testing back in June.
 * Hobbsee waves
<superm1> from coming into this late, it looks like the bluetooth stack isn't properly triaged much either
<superm1> there's still bugs from feisty marked as "New"
<persia> No.  slytherin has been trying to keep track since mid-Hardy, but nobody has really been on top of it.
<csilk> superm1, yup, thats a problem with public bug trackers
<persia> csilk: No, rather it's an issue when nobody is watching a subsystem.  Having it public doesn't automatically mean people don't track things.
<csilk> persia,  having it public means you get alot of reports and there is never enough people to triage effectivelt never mind fix
<csilk> *effectively
<persia> csilk: I disagree.  Find me open untriaged bugs against wildmidi or freqtweak :)  It's a matter of having someone who cares, not about whether it's public.
<csilk> persia, when its public there will always be a report that no one cares about
<persia> csilk: I disagree, but it's not worth arguing about.  It's just that some people care for some packages, and when that happens, it works.
<csilk> sounds about write, my intention over the next 3 weeks is to get stuck in with some of the less cared about bugs and hack away at some fixes
<csilk> university workload is really kicking my arse right now though
<csilk> ***right
<csilk> persia, quick question, does feature freeze also mean bugfix freeze?
<csilk> i'm not talking about system critical bugs here of course, i'm talking about old-ish bugs that havent really been looked at in any detail yet
<Hobbsee> csilk: i don't think so?
<persia> csilk: Depends on the bugs.  If it's broken, you can fix it.  If it ought to include support for freon collection devices, you'll want to wait for Jaunty.
<csilk> ok
<Hobbsee> anyone looking for a bug to fix?
<superm1> persia, well unfortunately can't test the dist-upgrade still.  update-manager wants to have all it's packages authenticated for some silly reason.  I'll have to poke more in update-manager code to find out how to disable that i think
<dholbach> good morning
<nhandler> Good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi nhandler
<Elbrus> I just filed bug 275688 with patch because it would allow my to build a new package WinFF (bug 172804). Would anybody be interested in syncing with Debian?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275688 in fpc "Please sync fpc 2.2.2-3 (universe) with patch from bug #260464  and lazarus 0.9.24-0-12 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275688
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 172804 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] winff - GUI ffmpeg batch video converter" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172804
<Elbrus> WinFF is a graphical user interface for FFmpeg.
<nxvl> dholbach: wow, this should be a record, what time is it in berlin? 5 am?
<nxvl> dholbach: good morning!
<dholbach> nxvl: now it's 6:38
<LaserJock> any MOTU Release around?
<nxvl> dholbach: but ypu are here since 5
<dholbach> nxvl: yeah, didn't sleep so well, so I thought "why not get up early and get some work done?" :)
<LaserJock> crazy!
<nxvl> heh, i always do the same "why not stay until late and get some work done"
<nxvl> but now i use to sleep well
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> LaserJock: when you have so much fun at work it starts to be normal
<nxvl> :D
<LaserJock> does  anybody know what the current FF status is regarding upstream bug fix only releases?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: file a bug and upload it, iirc.
<iulian> Good morning.
<iulian> james_w: Congratulations!
<slytherin> any idea why does an opensuse user reports a problem on launchpad? bug #275699
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275699 in bluez-utils "HFP Testing " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275699
<siretart> james_w: welcome, mate! :)
<bobbo> james_w: congratulations!
<slytherin> james_w: Congratulations. :-)
<RAOF> Hobbsee: I see you've noticed that anjuta needs more than just a rebuild :)
<wgrant> RAOF: Are forum people really thick enough to miss three bold requests for their Xorg log, or am I missing something?
<Aron_> I wonder who is maintaining the Anjuta IDE package?
<wgrant> Nobody in particular, but it is known that it is broken.
<RAOF> wgrant: Yes.  Forum people are thick enough to miss three bold requests for their Xorg log.
<wgrant> RAOF: Sigh.
<wgrant> And then there's that guy complaining that monitors aren't detected properly, and then refusing to report bugs to get quirks added...
<wgrant> Lovely, lovely.
<RAOF> It seems that many forum denizens are not particularly interested in helping, but much more in bitching.
<wgrant> Admittedly it might be a good idea to have an "Add resolution" button in gnome-display-properties, but still...
<RAOF> There's perhaps something to those complaints, though; we'll likely never inhabit a world where all monitors report correct DDC values.  Screen Resolution should probably have some sort of 'advanced' tab for adding extra resolutions.
<RAOF> Heh.
<wgrant> Indeed.
<wgrant> xrandr exposes it, so it can't be impossible.
<RAOF> It'd actually be pretty easy, I think.
<wgrant> As would I.
<RAOF> You'd call out to xrd or whatever it is that calculates a modeline, pipe that to xrandr, and hope the monitor doesn't explode.
<wgrant> It might also be a good idea to scrape the hwdb data out of LP.
<RAOF> Oh, _that's_ where the hardware information database goes?
<wgrant> It is.
<wgrant> It's also exposed, but the pages aren't linked.
<wgrant> http://launchpad.net/~wgrant/+hwdb-submissions
<wgrant> I can't work out if there's a full index under /+hwdb, unfortunately...
<RAOF> Woah!  Crazy.  There's my laptop.
<DKcross> HOla motus!
<huats> morning everyone
<didrocks> morning huats :)
<DKcross> huats,  didrocks  hi !:p
<huats> hey DKcross
<huats> plop didrocks
<huats> :)
<DKcross> huats, hey!:p
<DKcross> speak spanish ?
<huats> just a little
<huats> but there are lots of guys here who speak spanish
<huats> nxvl, by instance
<huats> :)
<huats> (and hello by the way nicolas)
<DKcross> huats,  sorry
<DKcross> i go..:$ my english isnt very well..
<DKcross> goodbye man
<DKcross> talk soon
<huats> james_w: congratulations !!! you really really deserve it :)
<james_w> thanks huats
<stefanlsd> grats james_w!
<Adri2000> bobbo: why did your upload close #273586 ?
<james_w> persia: hi, could I be added to u-u-s please?
<persia> james_w: Indeed.  Congratulations.
<james_w> thank you
<directhex> coo, james_w gets to be my personal pet sponsor for universe. neato!
 * james_w runs
<directhex> if only i worked on packages in universe
<RAOF> james_w: Never fear - directhex's main targets are mono, which you can't sponsor.  You're safe!
<RAOF> Also, grats.
<james_w> thanks
<stefanlsd> We can still do FFE's for universe stuff - right?
<directhex> aren't we in beta freeze? i forget the timetable
<wgrant> Beta freeze doesn't practically affect universe.
<RAOF> Except that uploads need a manual shove (which doesn't require any authorisation, just an archive admin to press the button), right?
<slytherin> anyone willing to test DVD playing with totem-gstreamer with a fix backported from gstreamer CVS? I don't have access to a DVD drive right now.
<slytherin> this is on intrepid
<Hobbsee> RAOF: yeah.  damn.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: did you want to fix it?  :)
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Not particularly; autofoo patching isn't my idea of a good time.
<RAOF> :)
<RAOF> slytherin: Yeah, I'll bite.
<slytherin> RAOF: give me 5 minutes. The build has failed. Trying to debug.
<RAOF> slytherin: Cool.  Are you considering updating to the new core & base releases?  Looks like they should be done in a couple of days.
<RAOF> slytherin: Or are you just cherrypicking a couple of patches to fix dvd subpicture autoplugging?
<slytherin> RAOF: Chery picked a fix so that it will go in beta.
<slytherin> RAOF: ï»¿I am not a core dev. seb128 said he will look into updates after beta
<RAOF> Cool.
<RAOF> Yeah, seb's likely to be on top of the soon-to-be gstreamer releases, if they're worth breaking freeze for.
<slytherin> what is meaning of this - Architecture: @linux@
<ScottK> james_w: Congratulations.
<james_w> thanks ScottK
<RAOF> slytherin: Some context?
<RAOF> slytherin: The meaning seems pretty obvious - the architecture is Linux :)
<slytherin> RAOF: gst-plugins-base also build alsa plugin. But looks liek @linux@ in control.in file is not getting replaced. And hence build failure.
<RAOF> Oh, that's debian/control autogeneration madness?
<Hobbsee> huats: but, does it actually work?
<slytherin> RAOF: Yes. Any idea how could I fix it?
<RAOF> Not really; autogeneration is very much a per-package thing, because it's heavily discouraged in general.
<huats> Hobbsee: the fact that the new anjuta does not depend on libgdl-gnome-1-0 is true
<Hobbsee> huats: well, even the rebuild did that.  I asked if it ran.
<Hobbsee> huats: i added a debian bug to that bug.
<huats> Hobbsee: it was working on my computer
<Hobbsee> huats: good.
<huats> but I still need to work on it
<persia> Err..  Beta has affected several parts of universe since hardy.  Please be careful when uploading anything that is a reverse dependency of any of the binary packages of xubuntu-meta, mythbuntu-meta, ubuntustudio-meta, or mobile-meta.
<huats> (and I would rather wait on the debian sync, since I have talked with the DM and the next version is about to be available)
<Hobbsee> huats: fair enough.  I just saw the grave bug in debian, and didn't know if you'd seen it
<huats> :)
<huats> no pb :)
<huats> right now, the libgdl update had some other side effects... I am trying to work on that and after I ping the DM again...
<slytherin> RAOF: it might be the case that debhelper 7.x provides appropriate substitution for @linux@
<slytherin> RAOF: ping
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<stefanlsd> sistpoty|work: heys!
<sistpoty|work> hi stefanlsd
<siretart> hey sistpoty|work! how are you?
<stefanlsd> sistpoty|work: i wanted to ask, when you have some time to maybe read something I wrote about symbols, and just check i am on the right track...
<sistpoty|work> hi siretart.. I'm fine, how about you?
<sistpoty|work> stefanlsd: if it's not too long, just show it to me ;)
<stefanlsd> sistpoty|work: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/stefanlsd/dpkg-gensymbols
<james_w> thanks Laney
<Laney> james_w: Hm?
<Laney> (and congrats)
<siretart> sistpoty|work: I'm doing okay
<james_w> Laney: you provided my first upload
<Laney> james_w: The Geordi rebuild?
<james_w> aye
<Laney> \o/
<stefanlsd> sistpoty|work: might be a bit long. heh.   seems like the symbol stuff isnt that well known.
<james_w> assuming I didn't mess it up :-)
<Laney> ;)
<Laney> (I don't mind if you accidently stole the credit, apparently that's easy to do if you miss some flag)
<james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/52058/
<stefanlsd> james_w: do you have a work plan for the MOTU school stuff?  Like, how could we get involved etc?
<Laney> \o
 * Laney high fives james_w 
 * james_w high fives Laney 
<james_w> stefanlsd: no, I don't really. You would like to run sessions?
<sistpoty|work> stefanlsd: I must admit, that I haven't used dpkg-gensymbols yet myself, but what you've written looks quite good
<stefanlsd> james_w: i would like to get involved. just not sure how. i enjoy teaching in general. writing docs about something etc.
<sistpoty|work> stefanlsd: however the main use for symbol files afaict is in debian to ease the transition from unstable to testing, so it's not that relevant for ubuntu
<persia> sistpoty|work: Don't we gain the same benefit of proper dependency tracking in terms of determining if everything is ready for release?
<sistpoty|work> persia: hm?
<james_w> stefanlsd: cool, if you have a session you would like to run then we can set it up easily.
<persia> sistpoty|work: While we don't have an unstable->testing model, I'd think that the results of the symbol files would still improve the accuracy of our package relationships, so we could presumably better identify packages that needed adjustment prior to release.
<geser> Hi
<sistpoty|work> hi geser
<geser> Hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> persia: well, the only real benefit I can see is that symbol files means that someone touching a library *must* check the abi
<sistpoty|work> persia: others than that, I see no real benefit
<stefanlsd> sistpoty|work: i guess its also useful to see if the ABI has remove anything, and then upstream can be notified and asked to please not break the ABI
<persia> sistpoty|work: Right, which strikes me as a *huge* benefit when it comes to our haphazard manner of syncing some stuff from experimental, some from unstable, some from testing, pulling stuff from upstream, and throwing it all together.
<stefanlsd> sistpoty|work: it can also help us determine that we can move the ABI lib forward  (by depends) and we would know that the functionality is actually still there, or why we cant...
<stefanlsd> but it seems kinda like the use of symbol files etc is optional, and not many packages do it..
<sistpoty|work> stefanlsd: yes, but you should do this when maintaining a library anyway ;)
<broonie> stefanlsd: A large part of that is because symbol files are a relatively recent innovation.
<stefanlsd> broonie: yeah. do you know if its a debian lib standard now? im not sure.  i think not many people know how to work with them also.  (i didnt at all, and now i know a little).
<broonie> It's certainly best practice.
<stefanlsd> broonie: ok, cool. so maybe we'll be seeing more of them...
<stefanlsd> i guess i'll see if i can link my doc somewhere better so devs / motu's can find it better...
<siretart> mr_pouit: you seem to be in charge about ffmpeg in medibuntu. please contact me before you do the next merge.
<broonie> sistpoty|work: As well as testing transitions the symbol files are also there to help make upgrades, especially if someone's doing a partial upgrade.
<broonie> sistpoty|work: They don't *force* ABI checks, sadly (they only check for changed symbol names, not for anything else).
<sistpoty|work> broonie: yeah, that's true, but I must admit that even that alone is s.th. which I've seen a few library maintainers not doing :/
<persia> checking for changed symbol names is a big step forward, and may well hit some percentage of ABI changes.  partial upgrades are more of a boon for developers than target users, who are expected to (but may not) upgrade from release to release.
<broonie> persia: indeed, but practically speaking the most common partial upgrade case is pulling in some core tools first so that the rest of the upgrade goes more smoothly.
<persia> broonie: True.  It's the testing to try to make that never required for Ubuntu Release -> Ubuntu Release that is supposed to obviate that, but there's certainly *lots* of people who track development, or use alphas & betas.
<broonie> Plus you have your upgrade manager tool for desktop users which can do things like that with nasty tricks if it has to.
<broonie> The other thing symbol files can help spot is unneeded dependencies - if no version is identified then the dep isn't needed.
<persia> That's something I'd like to see.  I'm unhappy with the volume of packages some packages pull, and don't need.
<RainCT> Hi
<RainCT> james_w: congrats!
<james_w> thanks RainCT
<Laney> RainCT: Do you know of any reason for lines 110-113 in pbuilder-dist.new in u-d-t? They seem to break stuff
<RainCT> Laney: that self.base should be a self.proxy o_O
<Laney> haha
<Laney> RainCT: That doesn't seem to be needed anyway. I'm behind a proxy and with just commenting out those lines it still works fine
<RainCT> Laney: I guess pbuilder will already know about your proxy if you created the tgz with the bash pbuilder-dist
<Laney> I didn't
<Laney> pbuilder seems to detect it fine itself
<RainCT> oh, I'll delete it then
<RainCT> Laney: is pbuilder-dist.new working fine for you (beside that)?
<Laney> RainCT: I nailed another bug (bzr merge lp:~laney/ubuntu-dev-tools/dev)
<Laney> With the code in that branch it's running great
<Laney> doh, accidently added an unrelated line in my latest commit :(
<Laney> (still needed though)
<RainCT> Laney: merged, thanks :)
<amikrop> Can I tell distutils not to place my data_files in /usr/foo but in /etc/foo?
<persia> amikrop: You don't want data_files in /etc.  I forget what things are to be called that go there, but it's a different name.
<bobbo> Adri2000: sorry I didnt have time to change the debdiff and it was uploaded earlier. I have re-opened the bug.
<bobbo> james_w: thanks for all the sponsoring today :)
<james_w> bobbo: no problem, really glad I am able to help :-)
<james_w> bobbo: have you had a chance to look at bzr?
<bobbo> james_w: not yet, but i'll have a look today or tomorrow. I'll send you an email with a list of things I think look important when I have a look at it
<james_w> bobbo: great, thanks
<bddebian> james_w: Congrats.  I thought you were MOTU ages ago. :)
<james_w> thanks bddebian, I was it's been like 8 hours now, that's ages
<fbond> Hi.  Is there any way to install recommends for a package after the package has already been installed (with --no-recommends)?
<fbond> Err, --no-install-recommends, rather...
<Laney> fbond: sudo apt-get install --fix-policy --install-recommends
<Laney> (will get all uninstalled recommends)
<fbond> Laney: Hm.  I really only want to install recommends for certain (already installed) packages.
<fbond> Maybe if I name those packages for that command?
<Laney> possily
<Laney> b^
<directhex> otherwise known as the "where's my tomboy gone?" fix for lenny
<mrooney> hello! is there a guide for making patches in the Ubuntu kosher way? I tried diff -crB but it isn't giving me something comparable to the original patch I was working with
<Laney> mrooney: debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
<mrooney> Laney: oh my then I am going about it all wrong
<mrooney> I was just trying to generate a patch from the source folders
<mrooney> that is how the upstream patch was, it seems like I should keep it that way for them to consider it
<mrooney> specifically bug 42686
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 42686 in rhythmbox "audioscrobbler password saved configuration file" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42686
<Laney> mrooney: Are you using an SVN copy of rhythmbox?
<persia> mrooney: diff -urN is the common way used to generate patches, although the means by which they are applied to packages differs on a per-package basis (but there are only 6 or 7 common ones)
<mrooney> Laney: well I am patching based on an apt-get source
<mrooney> which I believe is based on an SVN checkout
<directhex> mrooney, look in the debian/ folder. if there's a patches folder in there, then that package uses a patch system
<directhex> mrooney, svn-maintained packages are VERY unlikely to accept non-patchsys patches
<persia> directhex: Note that some packages use ./patches as well.
<directhex> persia, really? which patchsys does that?
<persia> directhex: dpatch and quilt both support it.  I think it was the recommended default for DBS (but very few people like DBS anymore)
<persia> (mind you, "support" in the sense that it works if you fiddle things properly)
<directhex> persia, within pkg-mono, *every* package in svn has only a "debian" folder. upstream remains unmolested outside that folder.
<persia> directhex: That's a common way to do things in pkg-foo on alioth when using SVN.
<directhex> persia, i do pkg-foo on alioth using SVN!
<Laney> mrooney: Anyway, if you're wanting to submit a patch to upstream I'd get it applying cleanly and working on a fresh SVN checkout, then use "svn diff [files]" to generate the patch to attach to the bug.
<mrooney> well I am trying to do the first part :)
<mrooney> I need to generate the patch
<persia> directhex: Yep :)
<Laney> svn diff will give you the patch
<mrooney> ahh ok
<mrooney> it seems like, rhythmbox just has rhythmbox_0.11.6svn20080916.orig.tar.gz and rhythmbox_0.11.6svn20080916-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<directhex> persia, apparently my monodoc update is finally uploaded, albeit in UNAPPROVED
<mrooney> and then the resulting directory
<persia> Excellent.  Now you need approval.
<directhex> persia, it's not beta-critical. it's certainly release-embarrassing though should it be missed
<persia> directhex: Does it fix a bug?  Is the bug milestoned?
<directhex> persia, 256853
<persia> directhex: Hmm.  Perhaps I wasn't clear :)  I'm not motu-release or ubuntu-release, so I can't help much.
<persia> Essentially, uploads are approved if they fix bugs that in the eyes of the release managers ought to be fixed for beta.
<directhex> persia, i'm less stressed about intrepid shipping with an embarrassing mono stack than i was. as long as it's in the release, then i'm not fussy
<ScottK> For Universe they are supposed to just shove stuff through.
<persia> If your bug is milestoned, this is nearly guaranteed.  If your bug is in universe, this is nearly guaranteed.  If your bug does not match these criteria, it's best to ask.
<mrooney> persia: thanks, I think -urN was what I was looking for!
<directhex> urNad!
<mrooney> I wonder what that means.
<directhex>               Output NUM (default 3) lines of unified context.
<directhex>               Recursively compare any subdirectories found.
<directhex>               Treat absent files as empty.
<directhex>               Treat all files as text.
<directhex>               Try hard to find a smaller set of changes.
<mrooney> thanks :)
<mrooney> are you suggesting that is the preferred method?
<persia> directhex: That's cleaner, but it's not what debdiff does (last I looked)
<directhex> persia, i rarely use debdiff. i contribute upstream to pkg-foo ;)
<directhex> infact, dpatch-template is what i use a lot more than anything else ;)
<persia> Hrm.  OK.  I use debdiff even when I am committing to pkg-foo on alioth.
<persia> Not so much to generate the patches, but to review my work.
<Adri2000> bobbo: ok, thanks
<persia> superm1|away: That's a pleasing surprise.  I've just gotten a desktop install up for testing, and the updates look great!
<superm1> persia, yeah upstream accepted variations of a few of the patches I put together.  they're still on the edge about the hbox patch of yours, but i updated it nonetheless for the new version and more feedback
<persia> superm1: Understandably.  Unless you're actually trying to use it at 800x600 on a high-DPI device, it's not clear why being horizontal is better.
<superm1> persia, I bounced upstream's latest feedback about the hbox patch to you if you'd like to provide some more input on it
<persia> Sure.
 * persia first finishes the latest test report.
<persia> superm1: Ah.  Looks great for me, but I see the point of the complaint with http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18041980/gnome_bt_too_large.png
<superm1> persia, well try with the latest stuff on the PPA though.  upstream took off the labels from those buttons
<superm1> did you pair w/ a person not a device btw?
<superm1> jdong, ^ robot theories.....
<persia> That makes it *much* better for me, but I don't have any currently working low-DPI environments.
<brettalton> I'm looking to package two pieces of web software. Kohana, a PHP5 framework and LimeSurvey. I've looked into how to package and have created folders for each module of Kohana (kohanaphp2.2, kohanaphp2.2-modules and kohanaphp2.2-vendor) including the creation of DEBIAN/{control, copyright, postinst, prerm}, but I'm stuck on what to do with postinst and prerm.
<brettalton> Can anyone help me?
<azeem> what do you mean, what to do?
<brettalton> ya, just not sure what to program in there?
<azeem> brettalton: also note that DEBIAN/* files usually get autocreated by debhelper scripts
<persia> superm1: Which is the communication from upstream?  I still seem not to have it.
<brettalton> azeem: oh, then I may be lost in how to actually create .deb files. Can you send me a link to a tutorial by chance?
<superm1> persia, I bounced it to your @canonical.com addy from my @dell.com address
<superm1> it should have come from Bastien Nocera
<persia> Ah.  I'll see if I can find out where it went then.
<azeem> brettalton: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/ I guess
<geser> !packaging-guide
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about packaging-guide
<geser> !packaging guide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<superm1> persia, hadess is the suffix to the email
<persia> superm1: volume isn't the issue, it's destination.  @ubuntu.com is easy.  Other addresses are harder and less reliable.
<superm1> persia, i'll rebounce then to @ubuntu.com
<brettalton> ubottu: thank you!
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about thank you!
<persia> Thanks, as I don't seem to have received it anywhere else.
<brettalton> is he a bot?
<persia> brettalton: Indeed.
<brettalton> hahaha
<brettalton> odd. Thank you
<brettalton> !backports
<ubottu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<persia> It's the u[bot]tu that ought give it away :)
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<brettalton> persia: that and he didn't pass the Turing test ;)
<persia> brettalton: I suspect you'll want to read the turning test.  Assigning gender means that ubottu wins.
<persia> s/turning/Turing/
<iulian> Hi
<geser> Hi iulian
<sebner> hi geser :)
<geser> Hi sebner
<iulian> Hello geser.
<mr_pouit> siretart: okay, no pb
<Zelut> if I need to find out where a package came from (ie; main, universe, etc) what tool can I use?
<superm1> apt-cache policy $PACKAGE
<geser> I prefer "apt-cache madison $PKG"
<directhex> oh, nice
<directhex> didn't know that one
<directhex> hm. should i add lpia support to my mono repo, considering the debs are built already?
<Zelut> thank you.
<directhex> Uploading pool/main/m/mono/mono-runtime_1.9.1+dfsg-3ubuntu2~dhx3_lpia.deb: [....] done.
<nxvl> james_w: congratulations!!
<directhex> anyone know of a good guide to setting up a buildd?
<geser> directhex: IIRC NCommander did setup a buildd, perhaps he knows a good guide for it
<directhex> geser, found a slightly old one on debian.org, an associate is hacking on it to make it good for hardy
<directhex> geser, stupid xen and lack of powerpc
<james_w> thanks nxvl
<sebner> james_w: congratulations :D
<james_w> thanks sebner
 * NCommander wakes up
<NCommander> Who has summoned my buildd knowledge
<sebner> NCommander: geser ;)
 * NCommander pokes geser's beard with the point stick of DOOM
<NCommander> hrm
<NCommander> my l and y keys are brokend
<NCommander> *broken
<directhex> well, it was sorta me
<NCommander> what do you want to know Mr. Directhex
<directhex> well, it was sorta SeveredCross on gimpnet, unless you know a magic way to build ppc packages without a ppc box
<NCommander> qemu-builder
<directhex> NCommander, apparently not a package in hardy
<sebner> directhex: only bleeding edge is TRUE -> intrepid :)
<NCommander> directhex, why do you need access to pwoerpc
<NCommander> directhex, http://wiki.debian.org/qemubuilder?highlight=(qemu)
<directhex> NCommander, someone asked about ppc support for my mono repo. there's about 72 meg of arch-specific packages across the entire repo, per arch
<directhex> and most of that is webkit-dbg
<NCommander> directhex, I have a PPC box you can use as a porters box
<directhex> NCommander, ooh, that could be handy. is it running a buildd?
<directhex> or is it manual pbuildering time?
<NCommander> it runs hardy
<NCommander> hey, its ScottK
<ScottK-laptop> Yes, back from vacation off the grid.
<NCommander> ScottK, how was vacation?
<directhex> cuba, now THAT was an off the grid vacation
<directhex> the poshest hotels provide $10-per-30-mins internets at sub-dial-up speeds
<highvoltage> g'night motus
<slavik> any chance for evolution with openchange in intrepid? gnome roadmap shows gnome 2.26 having openchange
<slavik> 2.26 would be in 9.04 though
<james_w> anyone familiar with swig?
 * directhex swigs some rum
<ZehRique> Hello there. Could anyone answer me which package "gtk-engine" I should request for downloading at Rosetta to make the pt_BR upstream?
<james_w> gilir: hi, are you around?
<james_w> gilir: I just want to check on bug 267479 before uploading
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267479 in avant-window-navigator "Candidate revision avant-window-navigator 0.2.6-8ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267479
<gilir> james_w: yes ?
<james_w> please see my comment
<kirkland> persia: ping
<gilir> james_w: hum yes, just a mistake
<james_w> gilir: cool, thanks, I'll fix it
<james_w> just testing the packages now
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-30
<persia> kirkland: Please provide content when pinging me, so that if I'm not watching the bytestream, I can provide a useful response when I review backscroll.
<kirkland> persia: my bad
<persia> kirkland: No problem, but you pinged me, so surely you seek me for something, yes?
<Elbrus> james_w: what do you think is my best approach regarding bug 275688
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275688 in fpc "Please sync fpc 2.2.2-3 (universe) with patch from bug #260464" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275688
<fabrice_sp> Morning. I'm fixing a bug with a package that uses cmake to generate Makefile, but it left a lot of temporary files behind, and diff file is 11 Mb! Is there a way to automatically clean the cmake temporary files or I have to put a dh_clean for all the files?
<porthose> nxvl:  ping
<nxvl> porthose: pong
<porthose> nxvl: if you have a min would you look at Bug #275790 for me please
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275790 in ampache "[intrepid] missing /etc/apache2/conf.d/ampache.conf" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275790
 * nxvl checks
<porthose> there is a debdiff attached
<dholbach> good morning
<nxvl> good morning!
<dholbach> hiya nxvl
<iulian> Good morning.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<iulian> Hello Daniel!
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hiya geser
<nxvl> porthose: uploading
<porthose> nxvl:  Thanks :)
<slytherin> should I file a bug for this? type-handling any linux-gnu generates a list which contains i686 and lintian throws error invalid-arch-string-in-source-relation i686
<stefanlsd> Hi guys - does anyone have any suggestion as to why this builds on x86 but fails on power? - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18056358/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-powerpc.wordnet_1%3A3.0-11ubuntu0.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<TheMuso> stefanlsd: Ah. The package needs to have its autoconf files, i.e configure, Makefile.in, lt-main etc regenerated.
<TheMuso> But why it succeeds on x86 but fails on PowerPC is unusual.
<TheMuso> stefanlsd: When I'm back on a bit later, I'll build locally on PowerPC and see what happens for me.
<stefanlsd> TheMuso: thanks. i'd appreciate that.   btw, how would i regenerate those files?
<stefanlsd> bbiab
<TheMuso> ~/c~
<didrocks> morning ^^
<huats> morning everyone
<k0p> g'morning
<k0p> james_w, are you there?
<k0p> you have commented my patch yesterday. I have several questions to do about flawed of patch
<james_w> hey k0p
<k0p> james_w, well
<k0p> I'm reading your comment
<k0p> And about the descriptions of changelog. . yeah.. I shoud me more clearly
<k0p> did you want links to reported of bugs, out of LP?
<james_w> k0p: I'd prefer links of bugs reported upstream, with the patches, or links to the changes in their version control.
<k0p> james_w, something like that: http://trac.umitproject.org/changeset/3628
<k0p> http://paste.ubuntu.com/52397/
<k0p> changelog looks nice now?
<james_w> k0p: yes, that would be fine. Linking to that doesn't get you the extra explanation of a bug report, but it shows that upstream already has the fix, which makes it more reliable, and means that we won't have to carry the patch forever.
<james_w> k0p: yeah, do you have the same for the other patches?
<k0p> links for revision?
<k0p> I didn't have link for the revision for gksu2 issue
<k0p> now I have to go
<k0p> i'll post a new patch tonight
<k0p> but some things you want to change isn't possible.
<directhex> what time is ncommander usually about?
<james_w> directhex: in a couple of hours
<james_w> maybe more actually
<HereBePython> slytherin: ping
<directhex> he was a bit impatient
<norsetto> directhex: pay per time connection ...
 * wgrant snorts at #-devel
<gaspa> james_w: sent another mail to other addresses....
<james_w> gaspa: great, thanks
<gaspa> james_w: but i think it'd be better to have it now, since we're near to the release.
 * norsetto goes cooking
<james_w> gaspa: yeah, I'd like to give it a few days to give them chance to respond
<james_w> gaspa: having seb on board is good though. Is he going to upload a fix to Debian?
<gaspa> james_w: it seems to
<gaspa> we could wait a little for him too, and see what happen ;)
<directhex> ?
<gaspa> james_w: at a first glance seems only package aptfs is affected by the same issue. ( looked at rdeps of python-fuse )
<james_w> nice work
<james_w> does that need the same patch then?
<gaspa> don't know...
<gaspa> never used that fs.
<directhex> hm. i wonder whether f-spot's hang-on-exit bug is valid for a SRU
<persia> directhex: Does that hang impact logout or next-start?
<directhex> persia, nah, just breaks the default photo management app for a seemingly random subset of users
<directhex> so far i have three leads i'm following up on to fix it
<persia> directhex: Define "break".
<persia> That sounds like a problem with next-start of F-spot.
<directhex> persia, force quit required on program exit, every time, for affected users
<persia> Oh, so it's a very visible and annoying hang.  Yeah, that's usually OK for SRU (but not *always*).  It's worth asking someone from ubuntu-sru on -devel
<directhex> persia, i'm waiting for some user feedback to help with my leads. since i'm unaffected, i can't debug it
<persia> directhex: Hrm.  Missing dependency of some sort maybe, or missing conflict?
<persia> (well, "missing conflict" is best solved by not breaking when both are installed, rather than adding a conflict)
<directhex> persia, it's something specific to the user's environment. the reports seem to indicate that any affected users don't exhibit the same problems if they create a new user account on the same machine
<directhex> something is "poisoning" their user accounts
<directhex> oh, and i'm seeing vague evidence of a thread i don't expect to see, as well
<directhex> again, it's all a bit man-in-middle right now
<directhex> so lead #1: what point is reached in f-spot when it deadlocks?
<directhex> lead #2: which file in ~ is causing f-spot to deadlock there?
<directhex> lead #3: why does f-spot use an ass-backwards way to quit itself, and is the bug caused by some of its dependencies not expecting such monumentally stupid code?
<slytherin> directhex: Is it reported on hardy? I think I have seen that but perhaps was later fixed.
<slytherin> no hardy and f-spot combination now so can't confirm
<directhex> slytherin, it's definitely reported against hardy, and apparently still affects intrepid.
<directhex> slytherin, the problem is the lack of reproducibility for me - impossible to try test cases really
<directhex> i might have a patch for gtk-sharp2 which might help, but i want to verify where f-spot is hanging before prepping a dpatch
<huats_> norsetto: !
<huats_> how are you ?
<norsetto> huats_: !!
<huats_> it has been a long time ....
<norsetto> huats: surviving, and you?
<huats_> kind of :)
<huats_> i try to do my best
<huats_> but a big big lack of time...
<huats_> :(
<norsetto> huats: oh yeah, there are only 24 hrs in a day, or so they say
<huats_> that is what I heard too
<huats_> it is a shame :)
<persia> Nah.  There's at least 49 hours in a day.  Sometimes 49.5 hours.  The issue is that if you actually follow the sun, you don't get that many days in a week.
<huats_> :)
<huats_> persia: that is a way to see it indeed :)
<persia> huats_: timezones are key.
<norsetto> on the right polar orbit you can beat time (at least, the local one).
<norsetto> james_w: are you going to ask for a third exception for package kit?
<nhandler> Quick question. I'm trying to triage a bug. What compiz first enabled by default in hardy or gutsy?
<persia> nhandler: I believe gutsy had it by default for some chipsets, but I don't know if they were the majority.
<didrocks> dholbach: thx for the upload :)
<dholbach> de rien :)
<didrocks> dholbach: sorry. I really have to improve my german, I lost a lot in six year of inactivity ;)
<dholbach> ask seb128 about my french :)
<didrocks> sure, I will ^^ (this will free me of guilt :))
<norsetto> dholbach: mon ami!
<dholbach> hiya norsetto! :)
<dholbach> comment Ã§a-va? :)
<norsetto> dholbach: pas tres bien :-(
 * dholbach hugs norsetto
<james_w> norsetto: yeah, should be the last
<norsetto> james_w: at this rate? hmmmm
<norsetto> james_w: seriously, why don't you ask for a standing exception?
<james_w> we could have done, I wasn't expecting as many point releases
 * huats__ hugs norsetto 
<huats__> :)
<norsetto> huats: ha! That qualifies for an hug attack!
<huats__> exactly :)
 * norsetto answers back with a surprise hug attack from the back et toc!
<huats__> :)
<Laibsch> calc: Do you think it would be possible to recompile OOo3 for hardy?
<Laibsch> I tried but failed with libcups2-dev
<directhex> libcupsys2-dev
<Laibsch> which needs to be recompiled first
<directhex> package name has changed. try libcupsys2-dev for hardy
<StevenK> It was never libcups*-dev
<Laibsch> StevenK: In the package provided by calc, it was
<Laibsch> https://launchpad.net/~openoffice-pkgs/+archive
<Laibsch> Thanks, directhex
<Laibsch> StevenK: http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/libcups2-dev
<Laibsch> looks like you are mistaken
<directhex> mono (1.9.1+dfsg-3ubuntu2~dhx1) hardy; urgency=low
<directhex>   * badgerport to Hardy.
<directhex>     - libcups2-dev my arse. Back to libcupsys2-dev.
<directhex>  -- Jo Shields <directhex@apebox.org>  Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:35:18 +0100
<norsetto> james_w: re. gforth, it has no r(b)depends, it shouldn't require any rebuild/transition
<Laibsch> calc: I have made that build-time dependency libcupsys2-dev|libcups2-dev now and trying recompilation for hardy now.  Maybe you want to do the same?
<james_w> norsetto: ah, should have spotted that thanks. I'd still like to know if there are any compatibility worries.
<norsetto> james_w: the only point is if enabling the C interface will not change anything else
<norsetto> james_w: perhaps its worth asking upstream
<james_w> yeah
<norsetto> james_w: but it doesn't look as if you need an exception (IMO)
<james_w> no, I didn't think it did, but I was assuming that motu-release might like to be aware of it, and help to pick the best solution
<norsetto> james_w: hehe, just opened planet and got you looking smirkly at me
<james_w> :-)
<norsetto> james_w: where are you in Bristol?
<james_w> norsetto: behind the University, on St. Michaels Hill. You know the city?
<norsetto> james_w: oh yeah, thats a nice zone, one of those I prefer
<huats__> james_w: you'll figure out that norsetto knows every city....
<huats__> he knows my place too :)
<slytherin> does anyone know what is rpm equivalent of dpkg --info?
<norsetto> huats__: its not my fault if you guys live in cities I often visited for my work ...
<norsetto> huats__: I must have spent half of my life in Bristol and Toulouse (and a fair chunk in Bremen)
<huats__> :)
<directhex> usage figures for my third party repo are getting pretty high
<norsetto> james_w: we used to have a pint on the waterfront and then climb Park Street to have food, sometime as farther as Clifton
<james_w> nice
<directhex> i could go for a pint right now
<norsetto> directhex: cheers
<bddebian> Heya gang
<azeem> hi Barry
<norsetto> huats__: all I remember of these towns are the restaurants ;-)
<bddebian> Hi Michael
 * norsetto bows to super master bddebian
<huats__> :)
<bddebian> pfft, Hi norsetto
<huats__> I am sure you remember restaurant AND girls :)
<huats__> norsetto ;)
<norsetto> huats__: well,they certainly remembers me ... some of them still have nightmares
<directhex> haven't been to bristol for years
<norsetto> directhex: are you in England?
<directhex> bien sur!
<norsetto> directhex: well, I won't ask you where otherwise huats will complain
<RainCT> wow, bluetooth has really improved since I last tried it :)  </random_comment>
<directhex> RainCT, i hear some loser even wrote a driver for the sony bluetooth ps3 remote, in python of all things
<directhex> norsetto, use the hostmask, man!
 * norsetto wears the hostmask, pretending to know what it is
<RainCT> norsetto: heh. Â«norsetto [n=Cesare@79.9.219.141] []Â» that's not the hostmask ;)
<RainCT> directhex: I guess I'm a loser too if I'm trying to get my phone to work over the USB connection? :)
<directhex> of course!
 * norsetto thinks that the only thing that python seems to be good at is producing tracebacks
<directhex> norsetto, i agree wholeheartedly. people should be using c# instead!
<norsetto> directhex: pfff, real men do it with perl
 * directhex has written gui apps with perl, now...... doesn't.
<nhandler> directhex: With GTK?
<RainCT> uhm.. you (ie, someone) said that the REVU Coordinator has a stab, right?  /me looks evil at norsetto  :D
<directhex> nhandler, aye
<norsetto> RainCT: no idea what a stab is, is it edible?
<nhandler> directhex: I tried using GTK for an image steganography application I made in perl. Lets just say that I do not do GUI applications in perl anymore.
<RainCT> norsetto: it's me not knowing English :P
<norsetto> RainCT: stab is actually an english word (cf. stabbing someone to death)
<RainCT> s/stab/stick
<directhex> nhandler, i wrote a launcher for a doom engine in gtk-perl, and also wrote an ldap systems management tool in perl
<RainCT> norsetto: right, but it's the action; I thought that it also is an object :P
<norsetto> RainCT: I guess one would use a stab to stab and a stick to, well, to stick
<directhex> nhandler, the latter exists only as a tarball in some long lost directory, having been replaced by a c# version so much better (and easier to code) it defies belief
<nhandler> directhex: I have no issue with perl itself (I actually prefer it over most languages). I just hate doing GUI applications in it. My current perl project is an IRC bot for the Beginners Team
<directhex> sticks are for poking. knives for stabbing. it's all very zen.
<directhex> nhandler, http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/libsmartirc4net0.4-cil ;)
<RainCT> norsetto: the dictionary says that stab is "the act of stabbing"/"a wound..."/"an attempt"/"a painful sensation", but perhaps I'm unable to read the dictionary, too ^^
<RainCT> directhex: back to bluetooth: the nautilus plugin still sucks, though :P
<RainCT> (it only has browsing implemented)
<directhex> RainCT, aye
<directhex> RainCT, konq is better with it
<RainCT> why can't they use a common backend for everything then? -.-
<persia> RainCT: which bluetooth?
<RainCT> persia: EMENOTUNDERSTAND :$
<RainCT> I'm using a dongle, if that's what you mean
<persia> RainCT: Well, I've been testing superm1's updates to bluetooth, and I was wondering which part was particularly painful for you, and which version of which bluetooth tools you were using when you experienced the pain.
<RainCT> (is en.wikipedia.org dead? o_O)
<superm1> persia, i'm going  to be making a few changes to the packages yet that might break the upgrade from ppaX to ppaY.  i'm going to avoid doing too many more NEW packages until debian has decided that they will
<superm1> persia, just so that we dont put ourselves into an uncomfortable situation
<RainCT> persia: Ah, it's not really painful, just suboptimal. I can send files to the phone using the applet, but the nautilus plugin only supports browsing; tried that with the bluez-utils versions from Hardy and Intrepid.
<persia> superm1: Sounds good to me.  I'm just running live sessions anyway.  Ping me when you want a round of tests: I've three environments working now.
<superm1> persia, okay great.
<persia> RainCT: The context-menu sendto isn't working for you?
<superm1> persia, other update regarding this, there's a bunch of stuff that needs to be rebuilt for the library transition.  some of it is faililng to build from missing symbols (assumingly not present in the SONAME bump).  that will all be on a separate bug though
<RainCT> (btw, if someone here has a samsung sgh-vz60, please ping me)
<persia> superm1: Hrm.  Are you throwing it all in the PPA?  I don't mind downloading a bunch of stuff, or even uploading some, but expect my test results will more accurately reflect the target environment with a more complete install.
<RainCT> persia: I don't have such a menu - /me is trying to drag into an obex://... location in Nautilus (opened by clicking "Browse..." in bluetooth-applet)
<superm1> persia, Well StevenK is doing some test wrg to rebuilds.  StevenK do you want  to put the ones that you've got functional into the bluetooth PPA so that we'll have as close to what will reflected in the archive there?
<persia> Oh.  I hadn't tried that.  I'll include it as a test in my next round, unless you want to try ~bluetooth/+archive
<slytherin> RainCT: the menu is available for the bluetooth applet in panel.
<StevenK> superm1: That requires munging their versions to include ~ppa1, doesn't it? :-(
<RainCT> persia: I can have a try if they work in Hardy (yeah, I'm still using it.. I may do a clean Intrepid install once beta is out, though)
<superm1> StevenK, well if you *know* that there won't be any more improvements to the package, you can upload them as they stand
<superm1> eg if they were no source rebuilds
<superm1> or a very small diff
<persia> StevenK: Ideally, although not strictly required: it depends if you want to support upgrades.
<RainCT> slytherin: Ah, OK. Yes, that's the one which works. I thought persia was talking about a "Send to.." option in Nautilus or something
<persia> RainCT: No, they won't work in hardy.
<RainCT> Something more: I've just tried sending from the phone to the PC and that doesn't work.
<persia> RainCT: Yes I was.  For me, nautilus send to supports BT.
<slytherin> RainCT: there is an option in nautilus also and it should work. Although I haven't tested recently in hardy as well as intrepid. I plan do to some test with new stack in a day or two
<persia> RainCT: Did you check the "Receive files from remote devices" box?
<RainCT> persia: yes, it's checked
<persia> Odd.  Do you have a Symbian handset?
<RainCT> persia: and I haven't nautilus-sendto; installing it now..
<RainCT> persia: nope, it's a samsung phone
<RainCT> (or rather not, it wants to install evolution)
<Oobalicious> Question: currently, all parts of VTK in the Ubuntu repos are v5.0.3. I've managed to get 5.2.0 packaged up, but not all of it - specifically, I know nothing about Qt, Tcl and Tk, so I don't want to try getting those to work. Would the maintainers accept updates for some packages if it means leaving others behind? I think they should still work, but I wouldn't know.
<norsetto> RainCT: hmmm, the suggests to sylpheed-claws in nautilus-sendto seems quite obsolete
<james_w> Oobalicious: if what is in the archive currently works and is consistent, then I think we would prefer that over a mixed bag
<james_w> Oobalicious: unless it doesn't matter that the versions are mixed
<Oobalicious> Oobalicious, OK, that's understandable - I'm packaging up 5.2 because the research group I'm working for needs the extra features for a couple of things.
<Oobalicious> Now why did I just mention my own name in that?
<Oobalicious> Ah, well.
<james_w> :-)
<Oobalicious> OK, I'm not sure I would be able to figure out whether a mixed bag would work - like I said, I have no experience with Tcl, Tk or Qt, so I couldn't update those packages without feeling uneasy.
<Oobalicious> I mean, I have the files - it would just be a matter of downloading the old package, replacing the old files with the new ones and packaging it up again - but I'd like someone to test it.
<Oobalicious> Perhaps if I packaged everything up and sent it to the VTK mailing list for testing.
<RainCT> Oobalicious: [Disclaimer: I don't know the package about which you ask] Intrepid is in Feature Freeze since a while already (the latest beta is about to be released), so it will be difficult to get anything new into Ubuntu before Intrepid has been released.
<RainCT> Oobalicious: Your work may be useful once the development cycle for Jauny starts, though :).
<superm1> StevenK, persia okay but 276343 will help track the transition
<superm1> bug 276343 that is
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276343 in ussp-push "Rebuild for libbluetooth2 -> libbluetooth3 transition" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276343
<Oobalicious> Should still be worth contributing if I can, though - we'll be adding the package to our own repository, so it's not an issue for us, but it'd be nice if it was in the central repos.
<superm1> StevenK, would it be easyish to publish those failed build logs anywhere for you?
<Oobalicious> RainCT, I'm only here 'til Friday - after that, I start university up again and I won't have time to do stuff like this... perhaps I should send it to the VTK people and they can do what they like with it.
<StevenK> superm1: Easier than uploading a bunch to the PPA with different version numbers :-)
<RainCT> Oobalicious: Sure. There is no dedicated maintainer for VTK in Ubuntu, but you can contact the Debian Maintainer of the package (at bottoms@debian.org, sending a copy to bugs.debian.org).
<Oobalicious> OK, will do.
<superm1> persia, any idea what this "gnome-bluetooth" package is?
<superm1> i'm assuming it was something from back before bluez-gnome existed
<directhex> yes
<directhex> ii  gnome-bluetooth                       0.11.0-0ubuntu1                       GNOME Bluetooth tools.
<persia> superm1: It's an old phone-discovery wizard by Edd Dumbhil
<superm1> should we just request it be removed from the archive then?
<persia> Dumbill*
<directhex> the main highlight is /usr/bin/gnome-obex-server
<StevenK> superm1: http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevenk/bluez/
<directhex> which is a tray icon app which lets you send files to pc from phone
<directhex> s/main/only/
<persia> Bastien Nocera is the titular maintainer, and it's related to the backend of gnome-phone-manager, but I've not used in it ages, as none of my phones are ever supported.
<superm1> directhex, that's the same purpose as as obex-data-server then
<superm1> just i think if some of these packages dont rebuild after the transition, it wouldn't make sense to have them available
<directhex> yes
<persia> superm1: Dropping gnome-bluetooth would be better than keeping it.
<superm1> persia, okay i'm going to file a bug for that and mark it won't fix on our transition bug
<superm1> keep an eye out for any of those that the same thing makes sense
<persia> superm1: Sounds good.  I've just confirmed that gnome-phone-manager doesn't rely on it anymore.
<StevenK> superm1: Bug 276343 description edited
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276343 in bluemon "Rebuild for libbluetooth2 -> libbluetooth3 transition" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276343
<superm1> StevenK, thanks.  the build failures at http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevenk/bluez/bluetooth-alsa_0.5cvs20080115-1build1_20080930-1851 looks quite peculiar
<superm1> i'm not sure that's a related failure
<StevenK> superm1: pilot-link uploaded
<StevenK> superm1: I doubt it's related, I suspect it's due to the libtool transistion
<superm1> StevenK, that's going on "right now" during a freeze?
<StevenK> superm1: No, it's been on-going for ages and ages
<superm1> StevenK, then there a pretty basic fix for how to adjust for it then?
<StevenK> superm1: First step is to re-libtoolize
 * RainCT just send his 3th mail to Samsung's support.. let's see if someone finally tells me what protocol the damn phone uses for data transmission over USB :P
<StevenK> superm1: Right, bluetooth-alsa fixed
<superm1> StevenK, ok cool.  i've updated the status for most of the tasks that are fixed now
<StevenK> % debdiff bluetooth-alsa_0.5cvs20080115-1{,ubuntu1}.dsc | diffstat | tail -n 1
<StevenK>  4 files changed, 7083 insertions(+), 5622 deletions(-)
<jdong> sounds like fun :)
<jdong> I hope most of that is cruft?
<StevenK>  ltmain.sh                                      |12694 +++++++++++++------------
<jdong> yup
<superm1> StevenK, hum you have libpam-blue and libwiimote on both lists.  which one should they be on?
<StevenK> superm1: Which both?
<superm1> the FTBFS and the minor changes lists
<StevenK> Mmm
<StevenK> Checking
<StevenK> superm1: Fixed
<StevenK> Right, libpam-blue is the only real failure that isn't hci releated
<StevenK> *related
<superm1> okay so it shouldn't be on the pass list
<jdong> siretart: is there a reason we don't build with rtsp streaming support for VLC?
<jdong> (i.e. bug 275980)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275980 in vlc "vlc is missing RTSP support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275980
<siretart> jdong: I've pinged xtophe in #videolan about this, still waiting for a response. you might want to ping him yourself, maybe I've just overlooked his response
<siretart> jdong: short: I have no idea :)
<jdong> siretart: sounds good! :D
<StevenK> superm1: I need to sleep. I'll sort out the unknowns and libpam-blue when I re-surface
<directhex> libpam-blue?
<directhex> bluetooth proximity pamming?
<directhex> that is awesome and epic
<jdong> directhex: makes for good denial-of-service attacks though :)
<jdong> directhex: I wonder if I remove the magnetron from my microwave how many screens I can lock :)
<directhex> jdong, mark it as sufficient in the pam config, surely?
<directhex> jdong, i.e. it's enough, but fall back to unix2?
<jdong> directhex: I wa thinking of the bluetooth screen locking applet
<jdong> directhex: blueproxy or something like that
<jdong> it locks your screen as your BT device goes out of range
<StevenK> I'm no longer paired to <device> *lock* ?
<jdong> yeah
<jdong> StevenK: rather, even weak signal
<directhex> jdong, ctrl-alt-f1, killall blueproxy
<directhex> ;)
<jdong> lol
<directhex> or whatever
<StevenK> directhex: At a login prompt?
<directhex> StevenK, all the cool kids have init set to spawn a root term on console 1!
<StevenK> If they do, they don't be deserve to be cool
<directhex> StevenK, and like i said, use sufficient in the pam config so an empty password works with bluetooth, or a real password with no bluetooth
<norsetto> RAOF: ping
<StevenK> norsetto: It's 1:36am local, RAOF is sleeping, probably
<directhex> why do i need 8 gig of dvd isos in order to get access to basic packages with sles? why do they hate online repos so much? silly novell
<jdong> directhex: I used the USB PAM thing before so I guess I shouldn't speak about security :)
<norsetto> StevenK: ah, I though he was in Austria
<StevenK> No, the Austr*
<jdong> directhex: isn't it because they don't want non-licensed users to get access to the medium?
<StevenK> the other
<norsetto> StevenK: yes :-)
<directhex> jdong, so hide them behind the same https servers they use for security updates. being a sles admin sucks
<directhex> SLE-10-SP2-SDK-DVD-ia64-GM-DVD2.iso           100% 4478MB  29.9MB/s   02:30
<jdong> you poor thing
<directhex> all this for imagemagick
<StevenK> Two reasons to hate that. First, SLES. Second, ia64
<directhex> ia64 isn't hate. it's love!
<StevenK> It's hate
<directhex> jms@orac:~> grep -c IA-64 /proc/cpuinfo
<directhex> 256
<directhex> it's love, in large quantities
<superm1> StevenK, i'll take a look today too at what i can for making some patches to work around the API change
<StevenK> superm1: \o/
<StevenK> superm1: Both of us should be able to nail down the 34 packages :-)
<superm1> StevenK, yeah, and afaik, this is the last gating factor on the bluez 4.x transition
<superm1> StevenK, so should be good :)
<RainCT> slomo: Hey, I had forgotten about it... Can you please upload gbrainy 1.00 to experimental?
<RainCT> http://rainct.homelinux.net/gbrainy/1.00-1/gbrainy_1.00-0ubuntu1.dsc
<Laibsch> Any kind soul here to help me compile libsaxonb on hardy? -> bug 276391
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276391 in saxonb "FTBFS: "You must specify a valid JAVA_HOME or JAVACMD!"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276391
<Laibsch> Is there a tool to check if a package has unsatisfiable (not just unsatisfied) build time dependencies?
<geser> Laibsch: what's the difference?
<Laibsch> unsatisfiable = package not available in feeds
<Laibsch> unsatisfied = package not installed
<persia> Laibsch: Try apt-get --simulate build-dep foo
<Laibsch> persia: How about for a package that is not (yet) in the feeds, like OOo3, for example
<Laibsch> ?
<persia> You can probably hack something with a customised apt.conf and pbuilder-satisfydepends.
<Laibsch> OK
<Laibsch> Don't feel like hacking too much
<Laibsch> It'll be just trial and error, then ;-)
<geser> Laibsch: re saxonb: try installing java-gcj-compat-dev before calling debuild -S (you need often a subset of the build-dependencies for building the source package)
<Laibsch> OK, will do
<Laibsch> Is that still a bug?  I mean only want to create orig.tar.gz, diff and dsc
<geser> Laibsch: it's not a bug, you need the packages installed which are called in the clean target (here apparently java is needed)
<persia> Yeah, Java is annoying about the number of things that need to be installed to build source.
<sebner> persia: don't force me to use ohmygod! :P
<persia> sebner: ?
<sebner> persia: J-word is evil :P
<sebner> aloha emgent
<geser> persia: in such cases I use dpkg-source -b and dpkg-genchanges when sponsoring a ready debdiff
<sebner> geser: \o
<persia> geser: Ah.  I actually test, as I've been hit N times with incorrect balance of Build-Depends: and Build-Depends-Indep: on the buildds.
<emgent> aloha people
<persia> sebner: No language is inherently evil.
<geser> persia: I do that too (test build with pbuilder) but I need a new source package first
<ScottK-laptop> persia: Not inherently, but some seem to have evil thrust upon them.
<Ooble> Question: if a language is predominantly used for evil purposes, does that make it evil?
<geser> and I'm to lazy to install java just to be able to call debuild -S
<Ooble> I'm not entirely sure why I'm prefixing all my questions with "Question:" today.
<sebner> ScottK-laptop: +1
<persia> geser: I have a special "Build Java packages from source chroot".
<persia> ScottK: Indeed.
<geser> Ooble: as long as we don't need to prefix answers with "Answer:" everything is good :)
<Ooble> It would be amusing, but I guess it's not necessary.
<Laibsch> Well, I installed another 100MB of software and apparently that still is not enough.  The error now is "You must specify a valid ANT_HOME directory!"
<geser> Laibsch: have you ant installed?
<Laibsch> I should have thought of the dpkg-source, dpkg-genchanges route before
<Laibsch> geser: I just want this package built, so I can go on building OOo3
<geser> Laibsch: do you want to build it locally or in a pbuilder?
<Laibsch> Well, I dget the stuff on my local box, change the changelog, sign things and then upload to PPA
<Laibsch> So, eventuall, it will be pbuilder
<Laibsch> y
<Laibsch> All that Java cruft is going away from my computer again.
<Laibsch> Let's hope dpkg-source, dpkg-genchanges doesn't run into trouble
<geser> Laibsch: don't try to run debuild -S and if that fails dpkg-source -b as that might get some cruft into the .diff.gz
<Ooble> Does MOTU actually stand for Masters of the Universe or is that my overimaginative brain going haywire again?
<cody-somerville> It actually stands for Masters of the Universe.
<nxvl> on that's because the repo we care about it's called universe
<nxvl> and we master it
<nxvl> \o/
<nxvl> and i'm quite sure about a geeky story involving he-man
<Laibsch> Ooble: In case you take offense at my question, my apologies.  But the way I understand it, this channel is also the ubuntu equivalent of #debian-mentors
<Laibsch> questions
<nxvl> Laibsch: ye sit is
<Ooble> Laibsch, no, 'twas an honest question and a poor attempt at humour.
<Ooble> I can stop that if you like.
 * nxvl is lost
<nxvl> We should do the "Question:" "Answer:" day i found it amusing too
<Laibsch> Ooble: Don't worry.  I was just worried about a possible misunderstanding.
<Ooble> Gotcha Laibsch - no worries.
<Ooble> I'm new here.
<iulian> Hi
<persia> We used to have Q&A sessions every Friday at 13:00 UTC.  If people are interested, it's likely possible to reoccupy classroom and bring them back.
<persia> The criticism was that they discouraged people from just asking questions here.
<slytherin> superm1: ping
<superm1> hi slytherin
<slytherin> superm1: I was about to install the bluez packages form PPA. I have two questions. Where is bluez-audio package? Is it replaced with bluez-alsa? Why don't we have bluez-utils package anymore.
<superm1> slytherin, can you hold off a little bit?
<superm1> slytherin, what i'm doing right this moment is moving it back to the old package names
<slytherin> superm1: sure.
<superm1> the upgrade from the current ppa version to the one i'm doing won't be clean - but the intrepid version to this ppa version will be OK
<superm1> slytherin, for that exact reason, don't want to introduce NEW packages that debian hasn't necessarily ack'ed
<superm1> it will make for a really ugly upgrade scenario in jaunty if we do
<slytherin> I understand that.
<slytherin> superm1: I also think the input, serial, network packages should be dropped.
<slytherin> as debian has not split packages like that.
<superm1> slytherin, yeah that's what i'm doing
<slytherin> superm1: one last comment. You have a dependency problem. bluez-gnome depends bluetooth which intern Recommends bluez-alsa, -cups, and -gstreamer. This I think is necessary. Let me know if you need any help fixing the packages.
<superm1> slytherin, why is that a problem?
<norsetto> persia: I thought those sessions were pretty good, especially for people to break the ice
<slytherin> superm1: doesn't seem to be a problem. I first thought bluetooth was in universe.
<superm1> slytherin, something you can help with, can you find bugs that are resolved by these uploads?
<superm1> and put them into the changelog in bzr?
<slytherin> superm1: he he, I stay away form bzr. :-P But I can find bugs fixed by looking at the test reports done till now.
<superm1> slytherin, well even a pastebin'ed changelog entry is fine
<superm1> i'll put it in bzr if you dont like bzr
<slytherin> will do. give me some time.
<superm1> but it'd be good to close off a lot of the reports that should be fixed here
<superm1> i'm sure there are plenty
<persia> norsetto: Yeah, there were positive aspects too.  I'm not sure if they are an overall good or not, but they are currently unstaffed.
<norsetto> persia: yes, that's too much work
<persia> norsetto: Well, it's an hour a week, for two or three people.  Needs a coordinator, and some volunteers.  We could probably get some sessions going for next cycle with a little planning now, and a call for volunteers for midday Friday.
<persia> Might even work better with a rotating time or something.
<norsetto> persia: I won't have any problem to do the odd one
<persia> norsetto: Excellent.  Do you think you have time to round up some people to do the bulk of them?
<norsetto> persia: I would think james_w should do that as part of the school
<persia> james_w: Does that make sense to you?  Would you have time to organise such a thing?
<persia> nxvl: You've previously expressed interest in school and coordination: want to be the MOTU Q&A guy?
 * nxvl prepares to run scared will reads the scroll
<nxvl> s/will/while
<nxvl> ok, i'm lost
<nxvl> oh
<nxvl> Q&A sessions
<nxvl> persia: of course
 * nxvl sits back again
<nxvl> and i'm sure i can find some volunteers in the way
<persia> nxvl: Excellent.  Please coordinate with dholbach to discover history, james_w about scheduling with MOTU/School, pleia2 about reserving #ubuntu-classroom for the sessions, and send out a mail asking for two or three MOTU to staff each Q&A session during the jaunty cycle.  You probably need a couple wiki pages for coordination.
<nxvl> oh god i hate kelly bundy
<nxvl> persia: ok, will do, i have long talks with dholbach really often
<nxvl> and with james too
<nxvl> my brain is in a full fifo buffer state
<nxvl> needs to flush stuff before letting more things in
<nxvl> -> kelly bundy syndrome
<persia> nxvl: Cool.  Note that there was some controversy that caused the sessions to end.  I don't remember exactly why.  You probably want to start the discussion early to hear various opinions before you get going too much.
<slytherin> superm1: There are loads of bugs and it hard to see which are fixed without testing packages. Also as of now with current versions in intrepid nothing is working in bluetooth.
<james_w> nxvl: I'd like to help with that, lets chat at UDS
<slytherin> I mean on my machine
<nxvl> james_w: why to wait? let's chat now and extend it at UDS :D
<persia> slytherin: Not even obex comms?  I know I tested that against the current stack in intrepid.
<superm1> slytherin, okay well i've almost got things together.  i'm just doing a test right now to make sure the upgrade goes right from stock intrepid before i push to the ppa again
<james_w> nxvl: sure. Well, not now, but we can chat this week for sure
<nxvl> persia: ok, i will talk with daniel tonight as usual to see what happens there
<nxvl> james_w: yeah, that's what i mean, i'm quite busy too
<slytherin> persia: only phone to PC works. I am wondering if this is a hardware issue.
<persia> slytherin: Odd.  Can your phone receive from other sources?
<slytherin> persia: yes, I did phone to phone transfer sometime back.
<DBO> so if I know of a fix for a suspend bug for new thinkpads, but it requires updating some core libs, is it worth trying to get it into intrepid?
<persia> DBO: Which libraries?
<DBO> libdrm2 and xserver-xorg-video-intel
<DBO> without the fixes, the new Thinkpad T500 series will not suspend properly when Acceleration is enabled
<slytherin> DBO: is it possible to create a patch doe this libraries. Something cherry picked form respective upstream svn
<DBO> for intel, likely?
<DBO> for libdrm, not very likely
<DBO> i mean I couldn't do libdrms patch at least
<DBO> the intel one is a single commit that fixed it, but it depends on a more recent libdrm to do vt switching
<slytherin> oh
<persia> DBO: Does the libdrm change cause an ABI change?
<DBO> no
<persia> There's a (low) chance.  Submit the patches in a bug.
<DBO> I was running a more up to date libdrm for some time without changing anything else on my system while debugging
<DBO> to be fair, I dont know if a patch is whats needed, it really needs to git libdrm
<persia> Erm.  What do you mean by "more up to date drm"?
<DBO> git head
<DBO> is it possible to maybe make a package for libdrm-git and place it in universe
<persia> Yes, that's ABI incompatible with what is currently in intrepid.
<DBO> for users like me who need it?
<persia> There's one in the nouveau-snapshot PPA.
<DBO> yeah it has to be more recent than that one actually
<DBO> within the last 7 days
<persia> That gets updated weekly.  It ought be fixed soon.
<DBO> okay, but that doesn't create the matching intel xorg driver thats needed for users
<DBO> both are needed to fix the bug
<slytherin> DBO: Does the intel drive fix has any fallback mechanism? i.e. what is latest libdrm is not available, will it crash?
<DBO> it does not crash
<DBO> but it will fail to VT switch on some intel cards
<DBO> so it has regressions without libdrm-git
<slytherin> DBO: regressions as compared to current functionality?
<DBO> yes
<superm1> slytherin, okay i've uploaded the new version to the PPA
<superm1> so as soon as it publishes you can carry onward with testing
<DBO> if you just update the intel driver, and not libdrm, you get serious regressions
<DBO> if you update both, you get no regressions
<DBO> if you just update libdrm, you get no regressions, but you gain nothing
<superm1> slytherin, one thing i know is fixed, but forget the bug number is that the dfutool is now included
<superm1> i think there was a bug report on that at some point
<slytherin> superm1: Ok. I can test data transfer and input with my phone. Let's just hope my dongle is not faulty.
<superm1> slytherin, the version number is bluez-4.9-0ubuntu1~ppa3, make sure you are offered that before you install fromthe PPA
<superm1> the ppa2 version will make the ugly upgrade
<slytherin> superm1: yes. I am checking changelog. I don't understand this comment - It was generated by merging the contents of bluez-utils and bluez-libs       and updating content.
<superm1> slytherin, literally there are no longer bluez-libs and bluez-utils source packages
<superm1> slytherin, just one big "bluez" source package now
<slytherin> superm1: yes but then the change was done upstream right? Your comment sounds like we merged the source packages.
<superm1> slytherin, oh the debian/ directory was merged between the two
<superm1> that's what i was meaning
<slytherin> superm1: bluez-utils is trying to overwrite /usr/lib/bluetooth/plugins/audio.so
<persia> slytherin: Without Replaces: ?
<slytherin> persia: Yes, upgrade fails form intrepid
<slytherin> I wan't using any previous PPA versions.
<persia> Bother.  I was about to pull those.  Can you fix and push, or do you not have upload to that PPA?
<slytherin> Either bluez-utils should not contain the file or it should add replaces
<slytherin> persia: I can. Let me get source package
<slytherin> persia: which approach should I follow? remove the .so file from bluez-utils right?
<persia> slytherin: Which package owns it now?  Is that package name in the new set?  Does the package in the new set provide that file?
<slytherin> persia: In intrepid the file is owned by bluez-audio
<slytherin> new set has bluez-audio. let me check it's contents
<persia> slytherin: And is it in the new bluez-audio?  (aptitude download + dpkg --contents may help here)
<slytherin> persia: No it is not. So the file needs shifting from one package to another.
<persia> slytherin: Well, that needs a bit of investigation.  If the file *should* switch, then you need versioned conflicts & replaces.  If the file *shouldn't* switch, then you need to fiddle the package split.
<slytherin> persia: I understand what you mean. Only audio.so should got to bluez-audio. Rest should remain in bluez-utils.
<persia> slytherin: Maybe.  As you've seen over the last month, I've never really had time to look at this, aside from doing some tests to see if any given candidate solution works yet.
<slytherin> persia: I will look into this and add versioned replaces
<superm1> slytherin, ah i didn't run into that because i used dpkg -i
<superm1> slytherin, i'll push a fix in a minute
<persia> slytherin: If audio.so doesn't need to move between packages, you don't need versioned replaces, you just need to change where the file is installed.  It really depends what depends on what.
<slytherin> superm1: I am working on it already
<persia> (at a library level, not at a package level)
<superm1> persia, what's your take on what marcel is staying?
<slytherin> persia: right. The file went to bluez-utils by mistake because of the *.so expression.
<superm1> about choosing to adopt the names upstream chooses
<superm1> i'd really like to do that, but slangasek brought up the good point yesterday about what's going to happen at jaunty if debian doesn't agree with the naming
<slangasek> I think the Debian package split is wrong, and I remember much squinting when it was done
<slangasek> but I'm concerned about the divergence from Debian, yes
<persia> superm1: The pkg-bluetooth folk seem nice enough.  Probably best to chat with them.  I don't really like /etc/init.d/bluetoothd either.
<persia> (and yes, they don't want to talk much until squeeze)
<superm1> persia, i've tried to ping godog about it
<superm1> but he hasn't responded at all
<superm1> persia, that was mostly a hack to workaround an issue where bluez-utils couldn't purge.  it's reverted anyway now though since we're back at the same names as prior
<slytherin> superm1: I remember Marcel complaining even when the bluez-audio package was created.
 * persia looks at the bugs and ML archives again to get some current context
<superm1> well I say lets go out the door with intrepid with the the same names as debian, and have the discussion started on the pkg-bluetooth team's mailing list then
<slytherin> superm1: here is debdiff. I haven't actually built it. I didn't add any changelog entry just bumped the version. http://paste.ubuntu.com/52562/
<superm1> and if they dont agree, we start divergence in Jaunty so as to prevent any other unnecessary issues now
<superm1> gives us more time to work out any side effects of it
<superm1> slytherin, that's not correct
<superm1> the audio.so should be in bluez-utils
<superm1> not bluez-audio
<superm1> bluez-audio is just for alsa and gstreamer, not the :audio service"
<slytherin> superm1: but currently it is in bluez-audio i.e. the version available in intrepid
<superm1> slytherin, then a conflicts/replaces is what's actually needed
<slytherin> superm1: your call.
<superm1> okay i'll put the conflicts/replaces in then
<persia> Remember to version them so we don't get hit because of the continued names.
<superm1> yeah i'm planning on just doing bluez-audio (<= 4.9)
<persia> Looking at Marcel's comment, and based on godog not responding, I'm tempted to not worry so much about the Debian naming.
<persia> There's enough different between 3.x and 4.x that a different split might make sense, and when squeeze opens would be a good time to introduce such a thing.
<persia> The only issue is that if we diverge significantly, it's a lot more work to cherrypick from Debian, and we lose orig.tar.gz mapping.
<slytherin> superm1: by the way what is the use of audio service seperately from gstreamer?
<persia> slytherin: ALSA.
<slytherin> ahh forgot that part. :-(
<slytherin> superm1: persia: in that case shouldn't /usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_ctl_bluetooth.so and /usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_pcm_bluetooth.so go into bluez-utils?
<superm1> well the ALSA support isn't the same thing as the audio service still
<superm1> the audio service just is what tells the devices that pair that you are capable of audio functionality
<persia> That said, we've done a lot more original patches and cherrypicks from Fedora with bluetooth, and the bluez stack doesn't seem to have been in sync since hoary.
<superm1> so in a sense we've been divergent from debian for some time already
<slytherin> superm1: back to my question then. What is use of audio service without alsa or gstreamer support?
<persia> superm1: Right.  We've been divergent from Debian (typically higher upstream, and always additional patches) since at least 2004.
<superm1> persia, by that argument i would much prefer to get on the side of upstream
<persia> For hoary, I don't think the sync/merge workflow was as institutionalised, so there may be lost diversions from warty that I don't see.
<superm1> persia, additionally, upstream will be hammering the debian maintainer to get this scheme in addition to us
<superm1> slytherin, it's not particularly useful, but then you are able to still pair with devices that advertise audio services
<persia> Well, we might be able to help work nicely with pkg-bluetooth in order to get back out of divergence.  I think sync remains the goal, but I'm not sure the path is to follow the current Debian packaging.
<slytherin> superm1: think form user's point of view. what is use of pairing if you can't even test playing wave file unless you install bluez-audio. It is a different thing that it will be pulled due to 'Recommends' but that is a different topic.
<slytherin> persia: +1
<superm1> slytherin, well the split is how upstream wants to see it split (main package/alsa package/gstreamer package)
<superm1> and how they're adopting it in OpenSuSE and Fedora
<superm1> okay so i'll revert the commits that brought us to old naming scheme then, and add in a  transitional bluez-utils package instead
<persia> slytherin: At issue is that you can install either of -gstreamer or -alsa to support -audio.  Doesn't matter.  Further, if someone wanted to add -jack or -pulse or whatnot, they could.
<slytherin> persia: yes but that is if we decide to go upstream and FC/Suse way rigtht now.
<superm1> slytherin, whilest I revert doing this would you be able to try to investigate some of the other FTBFS libraries?
<slytherin> superm1: sure.
<superm1> that needed rebuilding after switching to bluez 4.x
<superm1> do you know the bug number slytherin ?
<slytherin> superm1: Yes I have it.
<superm1> slytherin, okay great thanks
<superm1> particularly the onces that have the link error, if you solve one, likely that will solve about 8 of them
<superm1> with the missing symobl
<superm1> symbol even
<slytherin> superm1: first let me tell you that I am awake for an hour more. It;s already past midnight :-)
<superm1> hehe :)
 * persia searches in vain for NCommander for fixing libtool FTBFS quick-like.
<fabrice_sp> Siretart: I attached a debdiff to bug #264790, with the correction. Can you validate please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 264790 in kdenlive "FTBFS" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264790
<slytherin> I liked Marcel's comment on the bug. :-)
<slytherin> superm1: hci_read_remote_name seems to be replacement for hci_remote_name. Let me know when your packages are ready so I can try compiling the ones that FTBFS.
<superm1> slytherin, just use the stuff on the PPA right now
<slytherin> superm1: Ok.
<superm1> its just libbluetooth-dev and libbluetooth3 that do it
 * slytherin updates pbuilder.
<superm1> i have to add in some magic that will transition the init script
<siretart> fabrice_sp: the patch in kdenlive/effect.h needs more explanation
<fabrice_sp> siretart: ok. I'll update the changelog
<fabrice_sp> Would that description be ok: - kdenlive/effect.h: change name of the second id variable in Effect constructor
<siretart> ah i see. why is upstream doing such stupid thing here?
<siretart> may I suggest to just remove the identifier name?
<fabrice_sp> siretart: having a look at the constructor code, it appear that the second 'id' is named group, so I should change it also in effect.h
<siretart> ah dropping does not work because of the default initializer. hm
<fabrice_sp> exactly
<fabrice_sp> effect.h should have constructor  defined like this: Effect(const EffectDesc & desc, const QString & id, const QString & group)
<fabrice_sp> changing the patch
<siretart> okay, thanks for working on it. i'll upload it!
<fabrice_sp> siretart: great! Give me 5 minutes, and I'll upload the debdiff with changed comment, and updated patch (running pbuilder now)
<siretart> thnx!
<superm1> slytherin, okay do you know which one of those was not from the hci_remote_name bug?
<superm1> i just uploaded bluez ~ppa4 that takes care of the naming, so i'll look at one of these FTBFS
<slytherin> superm1: I have only looked into 2, freej and libbtctl
<superm1> slytherin, okay
<superm1> any luck with the function name change?
<slytherin> superm1: Trying. My connection is slow and pbuilder update taking time.
<superm1> slytherin, okay.
<superm1> libpamblue looks interesting
<superm1> i'll take that one
<slytherin> superm1: of all the packages listed at http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevenk/bluez/ libpam-blue and bluetooth-alsa have same error. Rest all are due to hci_remote_name
<superm1> slytherin, okay libpam-blue is probably just a relibtoolize then
<slytherin> superm1: yes, that is what I was going to say.
<superm1> bluetooth-alsa is taken care of.  StevenK got that one before
<slytherin> cool
<fabrice_sp> siretart: build ok, and debdiff uploaded. All yours :-)
<slytherin> superm1: so if this function name works then only evolution, gnome-phone-manager, multisync and slypheed is remaining.
<superm1> slytherin, i think evolution will "just" work too given pilot-link was resolved
<superm1> i'll double check
<siretart> fabrice_sp: excellent >)
<slytherin> superm1: libbtctl has no patch system. is it ok to patch the source directly?
<slangasek> superm1: errr, what do you mean by "haven't been in sync since about hoary"?  We've certainly been /merging/ with them, I don't see why not being in sync is an argument in support of greater divergence
<superm1> persia, ^
<fabrice_sp> siretart: thanks ;-) It was an easy one, even if that cmake stuff drove me crazy (did you had a look to the debian diff file?!)
<persia> slangasek: We've done some merges of some of the packages.  For others, we've not had the same upstream version at any point recently.
<persia> slangasek: For an especially extreme example of not having the same upstream, take a look at the bluez-gnome changelog, and compare to the debian changelog.
<slangasek> well, that one yes
<persia> bluez-utils isn't that much better.
<siretart> fabrice_sp: yeah, I didn't really get cmake yet either...
<persia> Mind you, I'll all for being in sync, I'm just not seeing a lot of historical evidence, and if the debian packaging split has already raised eyebrows, and upstream has such strong language against it, I'd think the right path forward would be to discuss with pkg-bluetooth, rather than to try to follow Debian just because it's Debian.
<persia> I'd not hold this opinion were we a little more in sync.
<slytherin> superm1: ppa4 failed to build on i386 :-)
<siretart> fabrice_sp: do you track kdenlive upstream? do you know if upstream meanwile compiles with gcc-4.3?
<RainCT> btw, is the bluez stuff C/C++/Python/something_else?
<superm1> wha? i just built it locally.
<superm1> i'll look
<slytherin> RainCT: C
 * RainCT runs away from it :P
<slytherin> superm1: couldn't find library libbluetooth.so.3 needed by debian/bluez-utils/usr/bin/rfcomm (its RPATH is '').
<NCommander> persia, a lot of debian maintainers dislike that we use their packages, and the concept of them being the upstream of Ubuntu
<RainCT> (at least for the next years ^^)
<slytherin> superm1: surprisingly it built on amd64 and lpia
<slytherin> NCommander: by upstream persia means bluez.org.
<NCommander> slytherin, isn't it a pain when that happens :-)
<slytherin> :-)
 * NCommander is working on the release critical Xubuntu bugs
<persia> NCommander: Close involvement, and effort towards sync typically reduces that feeling.
<fabrice_sp> siretart: to be honest: no, as I saw as last stable version the same as we have in Ubuntu
<slytherin> superm1: libbtctl done. should I upload to PPA or wait for you to fix your packages first?
<k0p> james_w, there?
<james_w> hey k0p
<k0p> hi. Good night
<k0p> or something like that
<k0p> :)
<k0p> james_w, about try: except of gksu2...
<k0p> I didn't catch ImportError.
<james_w> heh, I *just* saw this on planet.python.org: http://bluesock.org/~willg/blog
<siretart> fabrice_sp: okay.
<superm1> slytherin, put the debdiff on the bug, dont worry about the PPA for now
<superm1> slytherin, and go ahead and update it to "Fix Committed" on the bug
<james_w> k0p: what problem is it that you are trying to prevent with the try: except: ?
<k0p> james_w, may be. But I didn't know how solve using other way
<slytherin> superm1: Ok.
<superm1> slytherin, hopefully the same patch is applicable directly to these other packages too :)
<superm1> or same type of patch at least
<slytherin> superm1: Let me try building others.
<k0p> james_w, http://paste.ubuntu.com/52574/
<james_w> k0p: ok, and what problems does that cause? When the user cancels it aborts the program?
<slytherin> superm1: patching a source file directly is fine right?
<slytherin> when there is no patch system
<superm1> slytherin, it's much better to add a patch system in
<superm1> so that you can track it
<persia> Hrm!  Which package.
<k0p> james_w, Umit have a system to catch all tracebacks.. so it will send a Crash Report. It didn't make sense.
<superm1> and then the patch can be more easily picked out and sent upstream
<slytherin> persia: libbtctl
 * persia usually doesn't like the introduction of a patch system as it can complicate coordination with Debian if there is a reason for no patch system, and looks at the pacakge
<james_w> k0p: fair enough. You should "except GError, e: print e" in my opinion
<k0p> may be my python instructions are killing rain florest.. but sorry. I didn't find a better solution
<k0p> james_w, I already tried.
<slytherin> superm1: ok, another question. should I change any 'Depends' of the type libbluetooth2-dev to libbluetooth3-dev or simply libbluetooth-dev?
<superm1> slytherin, i say libbluetooth-dev
<superm1> it will make things easier in the future
<slytherin> ok, I did same
<slangasek> ... the -dev package name is changing as part of this update?
 * slangasek becomes increasingly unenthusiastic
<slytherin> I was wrong, there is a patch system.
<persia> slytherin: My copy of the libbtctl source uses CDBS simple-patchsys  Are you sure yours doesn't?
<slytherin> persia: ^^
<persia> slytherin: OK.  Cool.
<superm1> slangasek, the dev package name is the same, but the old one had a provides "libbluetooth2-dev"
<persia> slangasek: It needn't, except that there is a soname bump, and so libbluetooth2-dev isn't quite correct for libbluetooth3.
<superm1> slangasek, so some people decided to depend on libbluetooth2-dev instead
<slangasek> superm1: does the new one not provide the same API?
<james_w> k0p: ok, it doesn't have to stop the patch from going in, I just wanted to point it out in the review, as it's generally not a good idea to have a bare except clause
<superm1> slangasek, a lot of the API is still compatible, but it's not identical
<slangasek> persia: libbluetooth2-dev isn't correct for libbluetooth2 either, the dev package name should always reflect API not ABI
<k0p> james_w, found a better solution now. :D
<james_w> k0p: great!
<slangasek> superm1: <mumble>
<k0p> gobject.GError :D
<k0p> btw I need to import gobject too.
<slytherin> slangasek: as of now we have found only one API change.
<k0p> thanks. :)
<superm1> slangasek, hence why there's a few packages that are hitting these FTBFS and needing some changes
<slangasek> right
<k0p> james_w, before upload to LP a new patch, can you take a look?
<james_w> sure
<superm1> of the 35 or so, its only been about 10
<persia> slangasek: Hrm.  I thought the practice was to either keep versioned -dev to match the library version (e.g. wx*) or only use -dev and expect clients to move to the new A?I
<nxvl> james_w: did you got my mail?
<nxvl> persia: did you?
<james_w> nxvl: sure did
<nxvl> \o/
<slangasek> persia: that's the practice, yes; the people who propagated the first of those practices were Wrong :-P
<slangasek> the latter practice is usually an ok approximation of "change the -dev package name when the API changes"
<slangasek> the former results in -dev package name changes or no reason, leading to more fiddling with sources for rebuilds than is necessary
<persia> slangasek: I think I wasn't clear.  I generally see "libfoo-dev" persist over API changes.  I only rarely see "libfooN-dev", and in those cases, it often seems to depend on libfooN, where I beleive N to track ABI, rather than API.  I have no memory of seeing libfooX-dev depending on libfooY-dev.
<persia> s/libfooY-dev/libfooY/
<slangasek> sure
<slangasek> what I'm saying is that everyone who does libfooN-dev is Doing It Wrong
<persia> I agree the former doesn't make sense, but I'm not seeing the "change the -dev package name when the API changes" behaviour.
<slangasek> I think there've been a few
<persia> Even for things where we carry multiple versions of a library, like wx?
<geser> persia: easy example: curl: libcurl4-gnutls-dev depends on libcurl3-gnutls, but I believe curl is special
<persia> geser: That's because of a very special case of a useless soname bump at an inconvenient time, and it was determined to be easier to make a mess than to rebuild everything.
<slangasek> persia: the APIs are also different between the multiple versions of wx, that's a major factor in why we have several of them :)
<persia> Yes, *very* different.  But the practice of having different source packages for API bumps seems limited to a few specific libraries with *lots* of reverse dependencies, like db, or wx, or gtk.  Do you think it ought be more common?
<slangasek> oh, I'm not generally arguing for proliferation of source packages
<slangasek> only saying that the time to change a -dev package name is IFF the API changes
<slangasek> and that we should err on the side of less frequent package name changes if we're not sure whether there's an API change, or whether it matters to packages
<persia> OK.  In this case I think we're correcting the previous proliferation of binary -dev names, at a time when there is a minor API change.
<slangasek> db is a special case where the API hasn't changed, the ABI has, and we've kept lots of them around because the on-disk format is what's changed
<slangasek> persia: yes
<slytherin> superm1: libwiimote done. what version should I in changelog? I used ~ppa1 for libbtctl.
<superm1> slytherin, if its going to the PPA, put the ppa in it
<superm1> is it a dependency for other stuff?
<superm1> like cwiid or anything?
<superm1> if not, then i say don't worry about dropping it in the ppa
<slytherin> let me check.
<superm1> slytherin, okay i got evolution taken care of
<persia> How are we testing the rebuilds if they aren't going in the PPA?
<slytherin> persia: we are talking about rebuilds of the packages that depend on libbluetooth
<persia> slytherin: Yes.  How are we testing them against BlueZ 4.x?
<slytherin> persia: I don't know. I was trying to fix the builds.
<persia> Given that we're currently in the process of missing the beta window, I think aggressive testing is in order.  I've a box ready to test, but was waiting for a transition set.
<persia> superm1: What's your thought on testing?
<slytherin> persia: so you want all the packages in ppa?
<persia> Not necessarily.  I'm happy to test, but if there's another plan, there's other things I can do.
<superm1> persia, i think once we have all of the debdiffs ready, we should setup the PPA to host "everything"
<superm1> persia, and we'll have an archive admin do a copy from it once we've tested everything
<superm1> eg do a test install and remove
<slytherin> superm1: then why not add packages right now?
<superm1> slytherin, in case there's churn
<superm1> the version numbers need to reflect what will go in the archive then
<persia> Hrm.  I'm not sure I like that, as 1) I don't like pocket copies from PPAs, and 2) setting archive versions means no tweaking if something is broken.
<superm1> persia, how do you propose we test everything then?
<persia> Push to a PPA with ~ppa versioning.  Install.  Test.  If all is good, un~ppa and upload.
<persia> That allows for interim version bumps.
<slytherin> I agree with persia. We should have all relevant packages in PPA. So anyone who is willing to test can use it.
<persia> The other alternative is to ask testers to build locally & test.
<superm1> well StevenK is the one that has to push a lot of things to the PPA then
<superm1> he's done test builds for most of the rebuild bug
 * persia thinks it's around sunrise there.
<slytherin> I will upload what I have fixed to PPA. Ican't stay up more than 15 minutes now.
<persia> superm1: Hrm.  If the list is large, and you want to just shove everything, that also works for me, but I don't see much benefit of PPA vs. archive except with ~ppa.  I suppose we get an additional bit of time to test, but we can't fix any issues (or we have to fiddle with -V if we do and reupload)
<superm1> persia, well yeah the list is rather large - 35 packages in addition to the ones already being tracked on the first bug
<superm1> persia, that's why i thought it made sense to ask for a pocket copy on it to avoid doing that many uploads twice
<persia> superm1: I guess.  What's the win?  Just testing time because of beta?
<superm1> persia, that and we have more granular control of the order they're built
<superm1> some of these have indirect dependencies that cause the failures
<superm1> so you can't explicitly say you need pilot-link x.y.z
<superm1> b
<persia> But we still need to restage the build order carefully when pulling out of the PPA, for the rest of the architectures.
<superm1> ah that's right.
<slytherin> superm1: by the way, have you already edited file debian/libbluetooth3.shlibs to reflect proper version?
<superm1> slytherin, yeah some days ago i did
<slytherin> superm1: it should say >=3.14, should it? should be something like >= 4.9
<superm1> slytherin, ah yeah i had only updated part of it
<superm1> good catch
<slytherin> superm1: persia: So what is final decision? ppa or not ppa?
<jono> Hobbsee, ping
 * persia defers to superm1
<persia> jono: It's early there yet.
<jono> anyone know the contact details of the IRC Council?
<superm1> slytherin, for the ones that required the bigger changes, writing a patch etc, lets put them on the PPA
<persia> jono: Most of them are often in #ubuntu-ops : I don't know the ML address offhand.
<Nafallo> jono: #ubuntu-irc
<superm1> slytherin, if it was a no change rebuild, or libbluetooth2-dev-> libbluetooth-dev, lets not
<slytherin> superm1: Ok. I will upload both libbtctl and libwiimote in morning. I hope you will have changed shlibs by then.
<superm1> yeah i'll have that fixed momentarily
<slytherin> oh, then I will wait 5-10 minutes. I have packages ready.
<slytherin> superm1: persia: is this correct dput.cf for ppa - http://paste.ubuntu.com/52594/
<superm1> slytherin, yeah that looks right
<superm1> i've uploaded the newer one
<slytherin> ok
<k0p> james_w, can you review it: http://www.kop-labs.com/umit/patch/higwidgets_issue-new.patch?
<james_w> k0p: your root.patch is a bit funny now, it deletes a lot of lines, which are then added back as a direct patch to the source at the end
<superm1> slytherin, can you make sure that you attach your libwiimote patch to the bug too before you go to bed?
<slytherin> superm1: I am uploading bothe the packages to PPA and I will also attach patch.
<superm1> slytherin, okay very good thanks.
<jsomers> I was attempting to package an application but pbuilder is giving me an error. It seems the application makefile is trying to install it in /usr/local/bin and it throws a permission denied error
<jsomers> how can I bypass that without modifying the original makefile?
<k0p> james_w, added ?
<k0p> james_w, is it wrong?
<james_w> k0p: +        root = gtk.Button('Run as Root') etc. in the last hunk of the diff
<james_w> I don't know if it looks wrong, but it certainly looks weird, and is different to the last version
<k0p> james_w, hmm
<k0p> james_w, I don't know.
<k0p> It's diff mistakes
<k0p> I didn't add nothing more.
<k0p> i'm downloading dsc files
<james_w> yeah, I think it was just a mistake as you changed the patch
<k0p> and try apply patch
<k0p> :(
<k0p> yeah
<k0p> fsck!
<directhex> did NCommander materialize? ah, yes, it seems so
 * NCommander runs to the Peagus to escape into time
<slytherin> jsomers: you need to give --prefix option to ./configure in your debian/rules file.
<superm1> slytherin, did you do libbtctl too, or was that StevenK ?
<superm1> oh there it is
<slytherin> superm1: done with both. going now. see you tomorrow.
<superm1> nvm
<NCommander> directhex, what do you need from me
<superm1> i was just confused :)
<superm1> see you slytherin
<directhex> NCommander, we were talking about ppc yesterday
<slytherin> superm1: I think you can evaluate gnome-phone-manager once libbtctl is done
<NCommander> Still need access to my PPC box?
<superm1> slytherin, yeah that's what i was just bout to do
<persia> superm1: Were there still libtool issues outstanding, or did those all get sorted?
<superm1> persia, one left
<superm1> you want it?
<superm1> libpam-blue
<persia> NCommander: Do you have time to chase an outstanding libtool FTBFS?
<NCommander> persia, sure
<NCommander> (assuming the FTBFS occcurs on i386, amd64, powerpc, lpia, or hppa)
<NCommander> (or sparc)
<superm1> NCommander, it's libpam-blue.
<superm1> NCommander, related to bug 276343
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276343 in ussp-push "Rebuild for libbluetooth2 -> libbluetooth3 transition" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276343
 * slytherin dreams of the day when bluetooth team will have upload rights to all blue packages. :-D
<superm1> so when you sort out the libtool transition, if you could see that it builds against the PPA in question too, that'd be awesome
<superm1> we're collecting all the debdiffs on that bug then too
<jsomers> slytherin: how do I do that and will it even work if the Makefile of the application has the path "/usr/local/bin" explicitly stated in a "cp" statement?
<slytherin> jsomers: What package is this? Do you have only Makefile? Is it not autogenerated using configure script?
<NCommander> Is there a build log handy?
<NCommander> ^- persia
<superm1> NCommander, yeah there is
<k0p> james_w, refresh please
<jsomers> slytherin: nope, just 1 Makefile that does the trick
<superm1> NCommander, http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevenk/bluez/libpam-blue_0.9.0-2ubuntu1_20080930-2312
<slytherin> jsomers: then you have to patch it
<NCommander> ewwwwwwwwwwww
<directhex> NCommander, i'd still like access to *a* ppc box, yeah. or you could mail me a UK iBook power brick, that'd work too ;)
<jsomers> bummer
<NCommander> directhex, I have the part that breaks, you'll need the prongs adapter
<james_w> k0p: that's better.
<slytherin> superm1: I will test upgrade same time tomorrow. One thing occurred to me just now. Do you have appropriate Replaces added in bluez-alsa and bluez-gstreamer for bluez-audio?
<k0p> james_w, sorry my mistake :)
<james_w> k0p: no worries
<k0p> I was very confuse with patchs :)
<slytherin> directhex: you too lost the power adapter for ibook?
<superm1> slytherin, yes
<directhex> slytherin, seems like a common problem. yet we always moan about dell design sucking, never apple ;)
<james_w> k0p: I only have two concerns left, firstly that the patches are sent upstream, and secondly that the changelog be a bit more clear about the purposes of the change.
<superm1> slytherin, both bluez-alsa and bluez-gstreamer have conflicts/replaces for bluez-audio
<james_w> k0p: any links you can add to it would help a lot
<slytherin> superm1: Ok.
<superm1> slytherin, hopefully the packaging there should be very close to what we're planning to go in intrepid now
<k0p> james_w, second I understand. I didn't understand first.
<k0p> upstream?
<directhex> NCommander, well that's a standard plug anyway. coo, a 400mhz buildd. sexy o_o
<directhex> suddenly i feel for the arm developers
<slytherin> directhex: It was my first time with Apple and the adapter died soon. I got the ibook form my brother after he used it for almost 3 years. I am now getitng a custom adapter made since it is way cheaper than buying from Apple.
<james_w> k0p: the authors of the software
<k0p> james_w, the patches was fixed in svn of software.
<directhex> slytherin, still lot of money though as far as i can tell.
<james_w> k0p: http://trac.umitproject.org/ <- these people
<k0p> james_w, yeah I know.
<slytherin> directhex: not more than 1/3 of the price of original
<james_w> k0p: great, links to the revisions in trac where they were fixed and/or the bug reports about the problems would probably suffice then
 * slytherin hits bed without any further delay.
<k0p> james_w, changelog?
<james_w> k0p: sorry?
<persia> james_w: In the changelog?
<directhex> the battery's gone too
<k0p> james_w, yeah, it's the question. thanks persia :)
 * persia usually thinks that just linking the bug to the upstream bug, or adding a link in the bug commentary is sufficient.
<k0p> hehe
<persia> As a user, I want to know what changed,  I'm not usually as concerned about the link to upstream, but I like having a bug number in case I want to investigate.
<james_w> k0p: ah, yeah, sorry, in the changelog please
<persia> As a developer, when merging, I want to read the bugs anyway when merging, just to make sure I understand.
<persia> james_w: Why?
<persia> (not that I want to block such excellent sponsoring, just curious)
<james_w> persia: sorry, I think I might be missing something
<james_w> you want to know why I'd like pointers to the upstream commits/bugs in the changelog?
<persia> james_w: Yes.  As a user, I don't typically want to read that.  As a developer, the changelogs are largely insufficient anyway, and I need to review the bugs closed by deviation from Debian.
<james_w> persia: 3 reasons, but they don't all require it to be in the changelog. Firstly, so that I understand what I am sponsoring, as I don't fully yet. Secondly as it's trivial to see that the changes have been upstreamed. Thirdly, to save others interested in the changes from having to dig up the links themselves.
<james_w> it doesn't really help users, but when we have the links we can write up good changelog entries to accompany them.
<persia> james_w: I agree with *all* of those reasons, I just usually expect that to be in the bug, and for the second option, expect a link to the related upstream bug.  I don't like it in the changelog because of the audience of the changelog: it's stuff installed on *every* user system, so every extra byte takes CD space, and takes HD space.
<k0p> james_w, is it needed bug report too?
<persia> A short overview of significant changes with pointers to the LP bugs for interested parties seems much more appropriate.
<james_w> persia: fair enough, and that works nicely too. I'm happy as long as they are somewhere.
<james_w> k0p: if you have them to hand please, but it's not that important
<k0p> I didn't have
<k0p> :(
<james_w> that's ok
<k0p> but I have svn fix
<persia> james_w: Yeah.  *Somewhere* is critical, and you're perfectly right to question their absence :)
<james_w> persia: there was some discussion recently about sponsors requiring links to either Debian or upstream for all changes in the changelog where applicable, and I don't think anyone bought up that issue, so I hadn't considered it.
<james_w> persia: I know for some things that I have done I have cheered every time I have found the links directly in the changelog, and cheered a little every time they were in the referenced LP bugs, so I like to encourage it for my benefit.
<persia> Yeah, well.  The desktop team decided to copy all of upstream NEWS in every changelog entry, and add the name of *every* file touched.  They then removed the upstream changelogs to save space.  Everyone has different opinions.
<persia> james_w: Oh, certainly.  Having to track down from where something came can be exceedingly frustrating.
<james_w> agreed
<james_w> I like the idea of sponsors writing changelog entries though
<k0p> james_w, http://paste.ubuntu.com/52617/ better?
<james_w> k0p: yes, thank you. Do you have a link for the root.patch as well?
<k0p> james_w, root.patch it's a business of ubuntu package only
<k0p> Umit can't use gksu2 because they are in Windows and Mac OS
<james_w> k0p: ah, ok
<james_w> k0p: the same for setup.patch?
<k0p>  http://trac.umitproject.org/changeset/3742
<k0p> james_w, it appears in changelog
<k0p> did you want a line for file?
<james_w> k0p: ah, ok, sorry, I just mis-read the entry
<james_w> k0p: no, that's fine, I think we might be good to go
<k0p> james_w, give a minutes to upload ok?
<james_w> k0p: could you put the latest version of your debdiff on the launchpad bug please, and I'll do a final review.
<k0p> ok
<james_w> I'll be uploading tomorrow though, sorry.
<james_w> unless someone else wants to jump in
<k0p> james_w, done
<k0p> can you check now ?
<k0p> it it need subscrive again ubuntu-sponsors?
<persia> k0p: You generally only need to subscribe once to get a sponsor, especially for an interactive discussion.  If it doesn't get hit soon, then it may be worth resubscribing.  Personally, without any context whatsover, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't uploaded soon, at least within the next 12 hours.
<k0p> persia, ok :)
<k0p> persia, but in Subscrivers of my LP bug ubuntu-sponsors didn't appear now. So I'll wait next 12 hours or wait by james_w :)
<superm1> persia, StevenK okay that's the last of the library transition tasks (other than libpam-blue with NCommander is handling).
<persia> superm1: OK.  Shall I pull the suite, and try to activate bluetooth in each affected app, and report success/failure?
<persia> Or are we waiting on something else first?
 * persia only wants to test 40 packages once or twice
<superm1> persia, well not everything is on the PPA for this task, that will have to wait for StevenK to push his stuff
<k0p> james_w, so is it ok? :)
<persia> OK.  I'll catch him in a couple hours, and test thereafter.  Thanks for preparing this.
<superm1> persia, if you can test the basic things one last time in your live session - (bluez/bluez-gnome), everything should be ready with those now including final package names and transitions
<persia> Sure.  I'll pull and test those now.  I can't do much with bluez-cups though.
<superm1> persia, hopefully we'll go out the door with a working bluetooth for once because of all this :)
<persia> We had a pretty good bluetooth in gutsy, but yeah :)
<james_w> k0p: sorry, just stepped out
<james_w> k0p: looks good to me. I may tweak your changelog entry before uploading if that's ok. I'll show the final diff that I end up with if I do.
<james_w> k0p: thanks for working on it
<k0p> james_w, ok :)
<k0p> thanks for the help too. :)
<james_w> k0p: as I said it will be tomorrow. I'm working on something at the moment, and then I need to chat to someone in a timezone that is inconvenient for me.
<james_w> k0p: no problem
<k0p> ok no problem ;)
<k0p> well cya people
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-01
<blueyed> Any hint on bug 255150 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255150 in virtualbox-ose-modules "Virtualbox modules were rebuilt for 2.6.24-20 in hardy-proposed, but found their way into hardy-updates" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255150
<blueyed> the modules in -updates are more recent than the kernel.. is the kernel supposed to ever enter -updates?
<wgrant> That particular one won't, no.
<wgrant> The ABI is already 21.
<wgrant> So they need to be rebuilt again.
<wgrant> And an archive admin should have noticed that that wasn't a good idea.
<blueyed> there is a rebuild for -21 already.. but when will it go to updates?
<blueyed> wgrant: pitti is subscribed and being poked
<wgrant> Archive admins need to know to copy them both when the kernel update is published. It's the only way this is going to ever work.
<blueyed> ok, I've updated bug 260722 accordingly.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260722 in virtualbox-ose-modules "Please update virtualbox-modules for 2.6.24-21 (copy to updates together with kernel)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260722
<blueyed> but the question remains: if it takes more than a few days, the current messup should get fixed probably. there's one dupe a day now for the proposed/updates mismatch.
<wgrant> Aren't the -19 modules still published?
<wgrant> Ah, no.
<wgrant> Hm, actually, yes they are - I was looking at the wrong name.
<wgrant> So where's the problem?
<wgrant> virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.24-19-generic |     24.0.4 | hardy-updates/universe | amd64, i386
<blueyed> wgrant: they are published, but IIRC the meta package depends on -20 already (and -20 is published, too).
<wgrant> blueyed: Oh, right, forgot about the metapackage.
<amikrop> How do we create the .deb out of the source package?
<Elbrus> amikrop: there are several ways. I use pdebuild
<amikrop> Elbrus: which is the standard one?
<Elbrus> amikrop: but there is I believe also dpkg-buildpackage (probably the standard, but I am not sure)
<amikrop> ok
<amikrop> thanks :)
<cody-somerville> !pbuilder
<ubottu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Elbrus> !pdebuild
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pdebuild
<Elbrus> ok, pdebuild works on top of pbuilder, so a non-root can run it I believe
<persia> StevenK: When you have a chance, would you mind pushing the no-change rebuilds against libbluetooth-dev to the ~bluetooth PPA?
<StevenK> persia: Ew
<persia> StevenK: Don't worry about versioning, it's just that with uploads of some of it frozen until beta, I think it would be better to toss it somewhere for wider testing.
<persia> StevenK: Alternately, do you have a better suggestion for testing?  I can build locally, but I'm not sure everyone can.
<StevenK> persia: Hold on, I'll sorting out a list so I can sign and upload
<persia> StevenK: OK.  Sorry to keep poking you with slightly distasteful things today :)
<StevenK> persia: Uploaded.
<persia> StevenK: Thanks.  I'll try to run through the whole suite later.
<persia> And of course, if anyone else feels like testing the new bluetooth stack to see if it has fewer regressions against hardy than the current stack in intrepid, help is welcome.  Please comment on bug #276343 with any discovered regressions.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276343 in ussp-push "Rebuild for libbluetooth2 -> libbluetooth3 transition" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276343
<persia> (or bug #274950 for core BlueZ regressions)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274950 in obex-data-server "Look into switching to bluez 4.x" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274950
<Hobbsee> jono: contentless pong?
 * wgrant contentless-pingfloods Hobbsee.
 * Hobbsee puts wgrant out with the rubbish, ready for the rubbish truck.
<wgrant> It's already been, I'm afraid. You'll have to wait a week.
<Hobbsee> it just left then.
 * ajmitch watches wgrant decompose with the rest for the next week
 * wgrant decomposes entertainingly.
 * persia stacks up bleachers
<Elbrus> I am working on a package that has a configure dependency in the clean rule. Isn't that strange? That way you will always end up with a large diff because your Makefiles will be touched, right???
<persia> Elbrus: Some maintainers like to set things up that way so that the Makefiles never change on the buildds.
<persia> Personally, I don't like it, but it's not something you should disable unless you have a good reason.
<ScottK-laptop> Good day all.
<Elbrus> persia: so how to prevent the Makefiles to end up in the .diff.gz??
<TheMuso> Hey ScottK-laptop.
<ScottK-laptop> Hobbsee: I took the plunge and my laptop is running KDE4 Intrepid now.  It's not too bad.
<ScottK-laptop> heya TheMuso
<ScottK-laptop> Considering I absolutely hate anything new, that's high praise from me.
<persia> Elbrus: Don't.  They live in the diff.gz.
<Elbrus> and I try to get rid of a debian/files in the source tar.gz, but rm -f debian/files in clean-patched doesn't work
<Hobbsee> ScottK-laptop: i hope it's bug-free.
<Elbrus> persia: ok.
<persia> Elbrus: If you're preparing a package from scratch, you don't want to do it this way.  If you're editing an existing package, you don't want to change this.
<Hobbsee> ScottK-laptop: seeing as i think a lot may switch from ubuntu.
<ScottK-laptop> Elbrus: You can't patch a file to disappear.  The most you can do is make one empty.
<StevenK> ScottK-laptop: Is the reverse also true?
<ScottK-laptop> Hobbsee: It's certainly not bug free, but it's not too bad.
<Hobbsee> ScottK-laptop: oh good.
<Elbrus> the debian/files prevents the package from building on i386
<ScottK-laptop> Most of the stuff I use seems to work and isn't exceptionally crashy.
<Elbrus> ScottK-laptop: so should I just provide an empty debian/files and ignore the lintian warning?
<StevenK> Elbrus: Um, ew
<StevenK> Elbrus: Including an empty debian/files will make dpkg hate you
<Elbrus> s/warning/error
<Elbrus> StevenK: so how do I work around this issue?
<Elbrus> StevenK: it contains: lazarus_0.9.1beta-0cvs20040530-0_i386.deb development optional
<Elbrus> StevenK: the package is version 0.9.24-0-12
<StevenK> Not according to that, it isn't
<ScottK-laptop> Elbrus: Generally you'll have to repack the orig.tar.gz.
<Elbrus> ScottK-laptop: ok, just means that syncing from debian does not work... Is it possible that dpkg previously was not so picky?
<StevenK> debian/files is in the .diff.gz?
<StevenK> If so, the clean rule needs to be fixed
<Elbrus> StevenK: debian/files is in lazarus_0.9.24-0.orig.tar.gz
<StevenK> Errrrr
<RAOF> Ewww
<StevenK> What RAOF said
<wgrant> Urrrrgh.
<StevenK> Files under debian/ do not belong in an .orig
<RAOF> _Especially_ files generated during the build process of a Debian package!
<persia> Removing such files in debian/clean (at the *very* top, before anything else) is usually a good idea.
<wgrant> Where is upstream, and can I break into the MOTU weapon store before visiting them?
<persia> Such action should be immediately followed by a clear complaint to upstream about the appropriate practices of software releases.
<persia> wgrant: Were you not issued a key to the armoury already?
<wgrant> persia: Unfortunately not.
 * persia looks for the "How to be a well behaved upstream" page on the wiki
 * RAOF still needs to write it.
<Elbrus> persia: my clean starts like clean: patch configure clean-patched unpatch
 * StevenK jingles the keys to the ubuntu-archive weapons locker
<Elbrus> persia: where should I put the rm -f
 * wgrant robs StevenK.
<persia> Elbrus: -rm -f under clean: in debian/rules
 * StevenK notes the keys self-destruct after leaving his person
<Elbrus> persia: but aren't the patch etc not first applied?
<StevenK> Elbrus: That's a bad clean rule
<wgrant> StevenK: I'll just grab Hobbsee's instead.
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpstreamGuide
<StevenK> Elbrus: clean: clean-patched unpatch
<persia> Elbrus: You want to delete that file before you do *anything* else, unconditionally, and always.
<persia> RAOF: Since most of the "How to be a good upstream" page is already written, and it seemed to be on your TODO list, would you mind adding the "Don't including packaging data for Debian, Fedora, Slackware, Gentoo, or other distributions in your release tarballs.  why?" section?
<fabrice_sp> Hi. To solve Bug #271016, I'm trying to build taskjuggler against KDE 4, but it fails in configure saying that KDE libraries are not there. Are there guidelines on what to do to migrate an app from KDE 3.5 to KDE 4?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271016 in taskjuggler "[Intrepid] TaskJuggler is broken. Missing libkcal2b dependency." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271016
<Elbrus> fabrice_sp: http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/KDE4_Porting_Guide
<fabrice_sp> Thanks Elbrus. Let's try that as this package strongly depends on libkcal
 * NCommander plays with pam
<ScottK> NCommander: kde4bindings is calling you.
 * ScottK figures causing one nightmare tonight is enough and goes to bed.
<NCommander> Ack
 * NCommander duct tapes ScottK to a wall
<uniscript> is there a document somewhere that describes how to add menu items, icons and mimetypes (perhaps multiple documents) when creating a package?
<fabrice_sp> Hi uniscript. You can begin with debian policy (http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/index.html#contents). There is specific content for menu and mime
<Hobbsee> jono: repong?
<jono> hey Hobbsee - I mentioned earlier - I sorted it out, no worries
<Hobbsee> jono: oh, okay.
<jono> :)
 * Elbrus goes to bed and continues with repacking lazarus tomorrow
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning Daniel.
<dholbach> hi iulian!
<porthose> If a kind Universe Sponsor has some time, could you please have a look at Bug #248216.  Thanks :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248216 in typespeed "package typespeed failed to purge on remove: subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248216
<dholbach> porthose: what do you think about testing if the directory exists and removing it only then instead of removing the rmdir call?
<porthose> Ok sounds good
<porthose> will rework things
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> ping me once you changed it and I'll give it a go
<porthose> sure will thanks :)
<dholbach> anytime
 * iulian wonders if the archive admins will close the bugs from the list before Beta Release.
<slangasek> "the list"?
<iulian> slangasek: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive
<slangasek> mostly not.  Is there a specific bug on the list that should be addressed before beta?
<iulian> slangasek: bug 274276. Some users already mailed the upstream saying that the current version doesn't work. The fixed version is already in Debian so all we need is to sync with. For Ubuntu users I have set up a PPA with the fixed version but I'd like to see it fixed in the repo too because I'm sure that we don't want useless packages in the archive.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274276 in salasaga "Please sync salasaga 0.8.0~alpha4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274276
<slangasek> that could be done, because it's not on the critical path for beta; but /because/ it's not on the critical path for beta, it's also probably not a priority for the archive admins over the next two days...
 * Hobbsee wonders why htey don't just manually sync it
<porthose> dholbach: ping  New deb.diff for Bug #248216 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248216 in typespeed "package typespeed failed to purge on remove: subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248216
<dholbach> porthose: will take a look at it in a bit
<iulian> slangasek: Ah, OK, I didn't know that they will look at sync requests after the Beta is released.
<porthose> Thanks :)
 * NCommander sets the Shadows on vorian 
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> Autocomplete screws me over again
<dholbach> porthose: replied
<porthose> Thanks will make those changes :)
<dholbach> ROCK
<BugMaN> hi dholbach, you see our photos from ubuntu-it meeting ?
<dholbach> BugMaN: in your blog? yeah - looks like you got a lot of people together
<BugMaN> dholbach: yep :)
<porthose> dholbach:  changes made :)  Bug #248216
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248216 in typespeed "package typespeed failed to purge on remove: subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248216
<dholbach> porthose: updated
<porthose> dholbach: Thanks :)
<dholbach> anytime
<huats> morning everyone :)
<huats> hey dholbach and porthose
<dholbach> hiya huats
<porthose> huats: hi ya huats
<porthose> g'night all
<bmm> This must be the most commen question ever, but: I did a dput revu ccbuild_1.5.7_source.changes and have "Successfully.." lines in my .upload file. What could have gone wrong?
<bmm> (Oh, I uploaded yesterday, so it did have some time to update)
<bmm> Oh, wait. Maybe merging my accounts was needed _before_ I upload a new package. I'll try again. Thanx!
<wgrant> bmm: You should just have needed to log in.
<bmm> wgrant: hmm... then maybe something else went wrong. I've done a new upload by removing my .upload and doing dput on the source.changes again.
<wgrant> bmm: I can reprocess the existing upload if you want.
<wgrant> I'll see what goes wrong.
<bmm> wgrant: Cool. The new dput was done minutes ago, so it may take some time to show up. Maybe this second one will be successfull. The full package name is ccbuild and it's a new upstream 1.5.7
<wgrant> bmm: That worked.
<bmm> wgrant: Cool, thanx!
<wgrant> bmm: I just reprocessed the existing upload, and it worked fine.
<wgrant> New upstream versions shouldn't be on REVU.
<bmm> ah, must have been some kind of thing with the login or merge. I've been out of revu for quite some time ;)
<bmm> Ah.. new policies. I'm feeling old already :P Where should they go, where can I read up on the new way to handle this?
<wgrant> Well, firstly... why do we want this new upstream version?
<bmm> wgrant: It supports spaces instead of tabs in the configuration file, which is a new feature people like
<wgrant> We're well past FF, so we need a good reason.
<wgrant> That doesn't sound like a particularly compelling nor safe new feature.
<bmm> wgrant: Oh, I'm not pushing this for intrepid.
<bmm> Sorry for that
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> You'll need to wait for Jaunty to open, then.
<wgrant> But https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate is the documentation you want.
<bmm> wgrant: I just got a new version and decided to get the package quality tested again. I'm thinking about moving it to debian, but for that I decided to first go through revu again.
<bmm> wgrant: np, I'll wait :D
<k0p> james_w, there?
<james_w> hey k0p
<k0p> james_w, yeah, there're a mistake in upstream.
<james_w> k0p: cool, have you notified them?
<k0p> james_w, in some minutes it will be fix.
<james_w> k0p: cool, point me to the commit in trac and I will upload :-)
<k0p> james_w, http://trac.umitproject.org/changeset/3743
<james_w> k0p: uploaded, thanks for your contribution
<k0p> thanks for your help too. And now
<k0p> ?
<k0p> It will be apply on universe?
<james_w> it will hit the queue in a moment, and then someone will click the button to approve it shortly, it will be built, and then be available
<k0p> ok :)
<k0p> need I do something more?
<k0p> in LP or something else?
<james_w> k0p: no, it should all be automatic
<k0p> ok :)
<k0p> thanks.
<k0p> now I have to go
<k0p> Cya later. :)
<james_w> bye
<amarillion> Hey
<amarillion> I think I fixed a bug in avant-window-navigator. Could somebody guide me with submitting the patch?
<amarillion> I'm trying to create a debdiff but the diff I get contains way more than what I changed
<amarillion> Here is what I did:
<amarillion> sudo apt-get build-dep avant-window-navigator; apt-get source avant-window-navigator
<amarillion> ... fix bug ...
<amarillion> debuild -b
<amarillion> test
<amarillion> debuild -S
<amarillion> debdiff *.dsc
<amarillion> but the resulting diff contains way more changes than I made
<azeem> what kind of changes?
<amarillion> Well, I added one line to the code
<amarillion> And I updated debian/changelog
<amarillion> This is the way I should do it, right?
<azeem> sure, what kind of changes are there /additionally/ than to what you expect?
<amarillion> Is there a place where I can paste it?
<azeem> paste.ubuntu.com, I guess
<amarillion> nm, it's here: http://pastebin.bafserv.com/2690
<amarillion> The changes I made are only line 6-11 and 247-8
<azeem> looks like the rest are generated source files with some hashes in it
<amarillion> Hmm so it's not my debdiff usage, the package is just not cleaning up after itself?
<amarillion> I'll can edit the patch manually I guess
<azeem> I'm not sure what those .desktop changes are about, check debian/rules whether it is mucking with that
<amarillion> It doesn't look like. I'm not sure though, it's cdbs and I'm not at all familiar with that
<amarillion> ok, I just solved it by doing it all again without building the binary, so it doesn't get messed up. Thanks for the help azeem
<weboide> Hi, I don't really know if that'd be the place to ask, but I don't really know what to do, I did a package-update following the ubuntu wiki tutorial, and now I don't know if I should just post my .diff.gz as attachment to the bug report.
<slytherin> superm1: just a quick note. do we plan to analyze rebuilds of any KDE packages related to bluetooth?
<nxvl> for FFe de i need 1 or 2 ACK's?
<james_w> nxvl: two
<nxvl> james_w: thnks
<superm1> slytherin, who normally handles the KDE stuff?
<slytherin> superm1: no idea.
<superm1> slytherin, we should have taken care of all packages that needed libbluetooth though
<superm1> slytherin, so anything left would be userspace app
<slytherin> hmm, what about indirect rdepends i.e. some kde app which depends on libbtctl
<slytherin> oops, I meant reverse-builde-depends
<directhex> do userspace apps change?
<superm1> slytherin, well it certainly wouldn't hurt to investigate
<superm1> slytherin, but the highest priority stuff is taken care of at least
<norsetto> devfil_: around?
<devfil_> norsetto: yes
<devfil_> what's up?
<norsetto> devfil_: can you check bug 273677?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273677 in wxwidgets2.6 "bitpim closeing unexpectedly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273677
<norsetto> devfil_: what you did for wxwidgets2.8 also works here but I don't think its the good solution
<devfil_> norsetto: so, what do you think is the best solution that we should adopt?
<norsetto> devfil_: no idea, we should ask to somebody who is knowledgeable about pycentral
<norsetto> devfil_: the problem is that pycentral changed dir to /usr/share/pyshared, so, what is hardcoded in debian/rules doesn't work anymore
<norsetto> devfil_: also, what I'm afraid of, is that what you did will break the alternative system
<devfil_> norsetto: maybe building bitpim with wxwidgets2.8 is the best solution to do as it seems quite stable
<norsetto> devfil_: well, the problem is also on other apps, not just bitpim, and its because of wxwidgets2.6
<norsetto> devfil_: so, we have to correct the root cause, not the symptoms ...
<norsetto> devfil_: what we could do in intrepid is see if we can transition to wxwidget2.8 and drop 2.6 alltogether
<norsetto> devfil_: I mean, in jaunty
<devfil_> norsetto: is too late, we will do it in jaunty
<devfil_> norsetto: at least we can install upstream wx.pth
<norsetto> devfil_: upstream wx.pth is exactly the same as the one we are supposed to install, its the install location the problem, and the way we install it now I think break the alternative system
<devfil_> norsetto: uhm then we can try to patch sources in order to use wx.version(2.6) instead of import wx
<norsetto> devfil_: asking to doko would be the best, he is unfortunately always rather busy
<norsetto> devfil_: nope, we have to solve it in wxwidgets, 2.8 included
<devfil_> norsetto: in 2.8 the bug is fixed, I've fixed it time ago
<norsetto> devfil_: yes, but its not fixed correctly (IMO)
<devfil_> norsetto: why?
<norsetto> devfil_: because of what I said already, that we are breaking the alternative system, the correct way is to change the hardcoded path in a pycentral compatible way
<devfil_> norsetto: in 2.8 symlinks were the problem (as I remember right), there were no changes to other things
<norsetto> devfil_: the way this package was made, was relying on pycentral installing things in certain places. pycentral changed those places, so we just have to follow suit
<norsetto> devfil_: just find out where pycentral installs the pth files, and use that; to my knowledge it should be /usr/share/pyshared now
<devfil_> norsetto: yes, it is
<norsetto> devfil_: ok, lets try to modify the symlinks linking from /usr/lib/python2.[4,5]/site-packages/wx.pth so that they point there now and see if that works
<norsetto> devfil_: you might jave to revert other changes you may have done to that rules though
<amikrop> Hello. Can anybody suggest my a Python package that uses distutils and cdbs, and another which uses distutils and debhelper, to study?
<amikrop> So, any python packages that use distutils and cdbs, or distutils and debhelper?
<soren> amikrop: Plenty.
<amikrop> soren: could you refer the names of some? :)
<soren> amikrop: virt-manager
<soren> amikrop: storm.
<amikrop> soren: thank you
<soren> amikrop: vm-builder
<amikrop> soren: ok, thanks. but how could I search on my own for such packages?
<soren> amikrop: Look through the Sources file in the archive for stuff that depends on cdbs and looks pythony.
<amikrop> soren: aha :-)
<ScottK> amikrop: stepic is a distutils/debhelper package and pyspf is a distutils/cdbs one that I've packaged.
<norsetto> james_w: yes, its amd64
<bddebian> Heya gang
<norsetto> Heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi norsetto
 * norsetto go have a snack
<james_w> norsetto: thanks
<norsetto> james_w: how can I make the url of a file which is hosted on bzr? Say, I have a branch called lp:~norsetto/+junk/main and there is a file foo in there
<james_w> norsetto: I think there is a bug open saying you can't use lp: syntax to point to files within a branch. You have to expand the lp: bit first, and then add the file on to the end
<james_w> norsetto: or are you interested in getting the loggerhead (web viewer) url of the file?
<norsetto> like https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~norsetto/+junk/main/foo ? no, no, the loggerhead I see, its the real file I need
<iulian> Hi
<slytherin> superm1: there?
<slytherin> persia: superm1: I just upgraded the bluez packages. But it seems service not started after the upgrade. Any idea where I can look for errors?
<slytherin> The reason I think service is not started is because the applet didn't reappear in panel.
 * ethana2 is inquiring on the status of GIMP 2.6 in backport repositories for ubuntu 8.04.1
<ScottK> ethana2: It needs to get into Intrepid first.
<slytherin> ethana2: GIMP is in main. you should probably be asking on #ubuntu-devel and you are unlikely to get an answer there as most of them are busy with intrepid beta preparation. :-)
<jdong> yeah it's a bit too late.
<slytherin> If I need to fix two packages to fix a bug, one of the packages in universe and other in main, should I do that through single bug?
<slytherin> I mean single bug on launchpad?
<nxvl> DktrKranz: you look like you want to give me the 2nd ACK on Bug #274173
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274173 in terminator "[FFe] Please sync terminator 0.11-2 from debian sid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274173
<Nafallo> Terminator!
 * Nafallo looks for Ng
<nxvl> Nafallo: :D
<DktrKranz> nxvl, done ;)
<ethana2> Oh yeah, quick note--  Inkscape isn't in main, but GIMP is?
<ethana2> GIMP is on it's way to being more powerful than photoshop
<ethana2> it's not exactly a toy anymore
<ethana2> ....never underestimate the value of toys.
 * ethana2 out
<slytherin> ethana2: inkscape is in main
<nxvl> DktrKranz: \o/
<k0p> hi all
<k0p> james_w, are you there?
 * nxvl HUGS DktrKranz 
<DktrKranz> yay! my yarssr is back! \o/
<superm1> slytherin, you have to reboot, or restart bluetooth-applet manually
<slytherin> superm1: I did. Nothing works for me, even pairing doesn't work. Can't figure out what is wrong.
<k0p> hi DktrKranz :)
<nxvl> nixternal: you are planning to attend to UDS/FossCamp?
<DktrKranz> heya k0p
<superm1> slytherin, check if bluetoothd is running
<superm1> slytherin, and what upgrade process did you come from/to ?
<slytherin> superm1: I upgraded from intrepid. bluetoothd is running.
<superm1> is bluetooth-applet running?
 * nxvl waves on huats 
<huats> :)
<superm1> slytherin, if it is running, try this.  stop the bluetooth service (/etc/init.d/bluetooth stop), and then start bluetoothd like this: sudo bluetoothd -nd
<superm1> see that it registers the devices right
<superm1> i just tested off an intrepid daily in live mode by adding the ppa a few hours ago with no issues...
<slytherin> superm1: I know. It is working for everyone except for me. I am now trying what you told me
<slytherin> superm1: http://paste.ubuntu.com/52940/
<superm1> slytherin, hum looks clean..
<superm1> slytherin, okay with that in one terminal
<superm1> slytherin, run bluetooth-applet under gdb
<superm1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace
<superm1> follow that for running it under gdb
<superm1> make sure to kill any other running instances of it
<nixternal> nxvl: yes, I should be at both
<nxvl> nixternal: so i will finally meet you!
<superm1> nixternal, really?
<nixternal> you act like that is a good thing... superm1 knows me, he will tell you meeting me is the worst thing one could ever do :)
<nixternal> superm1: yes really...you going?
<superm1> nixternal, not sure yet
<superm1> i'm hoping so
<superm1> at least for UDS
<nixternal> I am going to FOSSCamp for KDE and Cleversafe, and going to UDS to start whipping people into shape
<slytherin> superm1: I haven't seen any crash. It is just that nothing works.
<nxvl> nixternal: nah! i meet persia and suvived :D
<nixternal> pressing for a REAL APPLIANCE DISTRO!!
 * nxvl HUGS persia 
<nixternal> ya, I would be scared crapless to meet persia, he scares the hell out of me online
<nixternal> ;)
<superm1> i still think it was hilarious when we met persia and had no idea it was him for a bit
<superm1> slytherin, that's really awfully odd
<superm1> slytherin, this coming from a device that was working before i take it?
<superm1> slytherin, what if you try to do a reset with hcitool?
<slytherin> superm1: at least some part working.
<nxvl> superm1: i was waiting for a japaneese looking guy, then saw him in the "internal" irc channel, ask him if he was already at the hotel, and then a guy come to my side and said "yes"
<slytherin> superm1: here is log when initiating pairing from PC - http://paste.ubuntu.com/52942/
<slytherin> damn, netsplit again
<slytherin> superm1: pairing initiated from phone worked and device is bonded. But I can not send files in any direction. Even obex browsing from nautilus doesn't work. Meanwhile I saw this error in gdb session - g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed.
<slytherin> RAOF: are you there? You offered to help test dvd playback fixes.
<superm1> slytherin, well seeing a few of those in the gdb session isn't detrimental
<superm1> slytherin, are you only experimenting with the phone?
<superm1> slytherin, or input devices too?
<goshawk> if someone has free time
<goshawk> can he review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dsss ?
<superm1> ScottK, do you have bluetooth devices in any of your machines?  slytherin had brought up a point related to bug 274950 that we should have some KDE folk weigh in, and nixternal recommended asking you
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274950 in gvfs "Look into switching to bluez 4.x" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274950
<nixternal> superm1: you could also ask sispoty if he was around :)
<nixternal> I have a few pints calling me from the Elephant and Castle pub on Lake and Wabash
<superm1> i suppose I could also pass a testing request to ubuntu-devel
<ogra> superm1, i have a GPS reciever, a heaset and will get a freedom keyboard tomorros and was planning to do some BT tesing after beta
<ogra> (since i'm intrested in working BT for the ubuntu-mobile image)
<superm1> ogra, well please do use that PPA for now then, the intent is to bring all that in after beta provided no big regressions are seen
<ogra> i will
<superm1> ogra, the gnome stack appears to be in good shape
<ogra> but not today anymore (1am here)
<superm1> ogra, as for your headset, after you pair, you won't see a proper ALSA "card", but rather another "device"
<ogra> well, the current setup sucks
<ogra> even my n800 works better
<superm1> so it won't show up in apps that show cards
<superm1> but for example aplay can use aplay -D headset FILE
<superm1> or mplayer has -ao=device=headset
<superm1> or similar
<ogra> well, i would be happy to see *any* dveice at al
<ogra> l
<superm1> :)
<ogra> i cant even pair with anything with the current BT in intrepid
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-02
<up_the_irons> hey guys, am I right in seeing that "/usr/bin/man" doesn't appear in any package (in Hardy)?
<up_the_irons> dpkg -S /usr/bin/man, does not return any package
<up_the_irons> so, how do I get that binary short of copying it from another machine?  is there some "base files" package I should look at?
<up_the_irons> I don't know why it wasn't installed on this Xen guest I just created, weird
<directhex> man-db: /usr/lib/man-db/man
<directhex> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 2008-08-02 19:28 /usr/bin/man -> ../lib/man-db/man
<up_the_irons> ah!
<up_the_irons> directhex: thanks, I should checked to see if it was a symlink!
<rockstar> Can I get a motu to look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/entertainer/+bug/262235
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262235 in entertainer "Does not work on 64bit properly" [High,Confirmed]
<rockstar> It's actually a bug in a universe package, and I've already gotten the fix.
<Hobbsee> hm.
 * Hobbsee wonders how that works with https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyclutter/+bug/267478
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267478 in pyclutter "Please remove pyclutter from Intrepid archive" [High,Incomplete]
<Hobbsee> oh, right.  hardy only.
<Hobbsee> rockstar: editing bug.
 * Hobbsee flips more switches for it
<Hobbsee> dude, way bad web design for the clutter site :(
<Hobbsee> james_w: looks like clutter (if it's the same as pyclutter) is out at 0.8.2?
<RAOF> Clutter isn't the same as pyclutter; pyclutter is the python bindings.
<RAOF> And there still aren't 0.8 python bindings.
<Hobbsee> ahh
<RAOF> At least, not on their ftp site.
<RAOF> Hobbsee: You wanted the waiting for approval message bounced to you?
<Hobbsee> RAOF: no.  just tell me you have it.
<RAOF> Ah.  I've got it :)
 * Hobbsee loads the queue
<Hobbsee> Accepting Results:
<Hobbsee> OK: glipper
<Hobbsee> RAOF: there you go
<RAOF> Woot.
 * ajmitch spots a Hobbsee 
<RAOF> On closer inspection, I probably don't want to adopt glipper; it appears dead upstream.
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch!
<Hobbsee> rockstar: eww.  Yay for completely unhelpful upstream CVS commits!
 * Hobbsee glares at http://bugzilla.o-hand.com/show_bug.cgi?id=923#c3 and gives up
<ubottu> bugzilla.openedhand.com bug 923 in Python "Clutter.Color() undesired results on amd64 platform" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: what's the problem there?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: try to extract the patch out.  you'll see.
<RAOF> Man.  Is python-gtk ever going to be fixed on hppa?
<ajmitch> s/python-gtk/anything/
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you wouldn't be meaning the lack of a visible place to grab the source?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: that too.  but I did find that.
<ajmitch> doibg better than me then
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: http://clutter-project.org/download.html
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: well, it did take me a while to find the menu, too
<ScottK> superm1|away: I do have bluetooth, but I haven't used it much.  If someone has a test procedure, I can do it.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: so with that, only took about 5 min to find the patch
<ajmitch> no time at all... :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: heh.  how'd you manage?
 * Hobbsee wonders what file it was against.
<ajmitch> svn diff -r2770:2771 http://svn.o-hand.com/repos/clutter/branches/pyclutter-0-6 |less
<ajmitch> I looked at svn log for commits around that date, this one matched
<ajmitch> the changelog entry says which file, too
<Hobbsee> didn't seem to exist for me.
<ajmitch> pyclutter-0-6 branch, not clutter-0-6
<Hobbsee> ahhhh
<ajmitch> small but important difference
<nxvl> slangasek: ping
<slangasek> nxvl: hi
<nxvl> slangasek: were are the bugs milestoned for beta?
<Hobbsee> nxvl: u-d-a mailing list archives, ftw?
<nxvl> Hobbsee: right
<nxvl> slangasek: sorry about that
<nxvl> :D
<nixternal> shh, quit making so much noise
<Hobbsee> !visternal | visternal
<ubottu> visternal: Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<nixternal> yay, gimme some of that free money!
<superm1> ScottK, i know nothing of the bluetooth experience on KDE
<superm1> ScottK, i could help wtih a test case on gnome, but the kde one is more important right now as I don't think anyone has done anything there
<ScottK> superm1: OK.  Well tell me what needs testing and I'll see what I can do.
<superm1> ScottK, attempt to pair an input device and make sure it still works
<superm1> ScottK, is there normally a KDE gui tool for doing such things?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Unfortunately all I have to pair with is my phone and it doesn't qualify as an input device.
<superm1> ScottK, well that's another use case worth testing though, sending a file to the phone
<ScottK> I can do that one.
<superm1> i'd actually expect some breakage there too possible since OBEX was a big change from BlueZ 3.x to 4.x
<ScottK> superm1: Please send me an email with what needs tested and where to find the packages and I'll try to do it tomorrow.
<superm1> ScottK, will do
<superm1> ScottK, i might just send a generic call for testing to ubuntu-devel
<ScottK> superm1: Send to kubuntu-devel too.
<superm1> ScottK, okay will do
<superm1> have a good evening then
<maccam-sager> i heard that the intel eeprom corruption issue was fixed in git, is the kernel going to be rebuilt soon?
<ScottK> Thanks.  Trying to get to bed soon ...
<ScottK> maccam-sager: #ubuntu-kernel would be a better place to ask, but I'd say it's a safe bet they'll field that fix as soon as they consider it safe to do so.
<maccam-sager> ScottK: ah gotcha. thanks for the info
<StevenK> Bah, I was just about to answer him
<RAOF> Oh, there is an answer? :)
<StevenK> There is.
<ScottK> And the answer is?
<StevenK> From what I can, it's in unapproved, waiting for beta
<StevenK> *can see
<Elbrus> just to be sure: a binary-indep rule should not depend on a/the clean rule, right? At least in a PPA the binary-indep is build after binary-arch for i386 and the debian/files is removed by dh_clean removing the information about the binary-arch target...
 * Elbrus still tries to build lazarus-ide for i386 in his PPA
<RAOF> Elbrus: binary-indep depending on clean: would be utter crack.
<RAOF> Or, rather, a translation into what that means is "In order to build the arch-independent package from our built source tree, we must first remove all the binaries we built".
<Elbrus> RAOF: thought so, but the maintainer of lazarus does that to remove the build binaries from the tree to put the source in lazarus-src
<RAOF> Intriguing.
<StevenK> Argh
<Elbrus> and I just don't get it to work properly
<RAOF> Sorry, why is there a lazarus-src package which is distinct from lazarus.orig.tar.gz, then?
<StevenK> Elbrus: If binary-indep is after binary-arch, reorder them in the binary target
<rockstar> Hobbsee, I have a patch for the package if you'd like, and I can write a VERY descriptive summary of the problem and the solution.
<Elbrus> \me finally succeeded in building PPA build of lazarus-ide on i386... thanks to StevenK.
 * Elbrus finally succeeded in building PPA build of lazarus-ide on i386... thanks to StevenK.
<Elbrus> :)
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> G'morning Daniel.
 * iulian yawns!
<dholbach> hiya iulian
<iulian> How are you this morning?
<dholbach> good good - how 'bout you?
<iulian> I'm doing good too, preparing for school.
<Hobbsee> rockstar: i try to avoid SRUs as much as possible.  But I would suggest adding that to the bug, so MOTU SRU can look at it ;)
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<k00n> sorry, power cut
<Koon> good morning everyone :)
<Hobbsee> heya Koon!
<didrocks> hi everyone!
<geser> apachelogger: Hi, could it be that libsmokeqt4-2-dev (kde4bindings) is missing a dependency on libsmokeqt4-2?
<geser> Hi didrocks
<huats> morning everyone
<didrocks> hi huats :)
<huats> hey didrocks
<huats> :)
<gnomefreak> anyone else having issues setting up gpg key in claws-mail and getting it to work?
<sirex`> I'm trying to build binary package of php 5.2.6.
<sirex`> I apt-get sourced current source package, then kopied debian derectory to new sources and when I try to run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot on new sources, I got errors about patches.
<sirex`> Maybe some one knows how can I avoid it?
<directhex> so turn off patches that are no longer needed
<directhex> look in debian/patches/
<sirex`> directhex: yes, I tried it, removed all patches, but still getting errors:
<sirex`> Patch disable_dl_by_default.patch does not remove cleanly (refresh it or enforce with -f)
<sirex`> directhex: any suggestions?
<sirex`> How can I refresh patchas?
<directhex> start again
<directhex> and make sure you work on the patch manifest, if php's patchsys uses one (e.g. 00list for dpatch)
<sirex`> Running that command again, gives same error.
<sirex`> hm, now I getting this: dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source
<directhex> that's because you didn't start again properly
<sirex`> directhex: so I should remove every thing and start again?
<directhex> yes
<directhex> i have to ask though... what ARE you doing?
<directhex> intrepid already has php 5.2.6
<sirex`> But now I'm using Hardy.
<sirex`> Which has only 5.2.4
<directhex> so build the intrepid package on hardy
<sirex`> directhex: but how can I get intrepid source package on hardy?
<directhex> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/php5/php5_5.2.6-2ubuntu3.dsc
<directhex> dget that.
<sirex`> directhex: ah, ok, thanks.
<highvoltage> sirex`: you could add a source-uri for hardy in your /etc/apt/sources.list file and then apt-get source it
<highvoltage> for intrepid, I mean
<directhex> you COULD, but it'd probably only lead to confusion in the future
<directhex> and confusion is bad
<sirex`> Well, I just need newes php version, so I will probably just dget sources from that link.
<apachelogger> geser: looks like it, I will address the issue once beta freeze is lifted
<slytherin> when is beta freeze supposed to be lifted?
<Hobbsee> slytherin: after the beta release...
<slytherin> Hobbsee: when is beta release then? I mean what exact time?
<Hobbsee> slytherin: "when it's ready".  There is no exact time.
<slytherin> Ok. Does beta freeze affect universe packages? Can I attach a debdiff for some bugfix and request for sponsorship?
 * Hobbsee thought those questions, and many others, were answered in the beta freeze announcement, which can be found in hte ubuntu-devel-announce archives.
<directhex> mailing lists. how debian!
<siretart> <theo> obviously PEOPLE ARE JUST NOT LISTENING! </theo>
<siretart> anyone wants to try out some unstripped (read: mpeg2 encoder enabled) ffmpeg packages?
 * siretart is considering uploading them to intrepid, depending on feedback
<icf7> I'm packaging a C library. Its symbols (generated by dpkg-gensymbols) contain lots of internal stuff. Do I remove this stuff manually, let it stay or fix upstream(how?)?
<siretart> icf7: best is to fix it upstream. non exported functions and variables should be declared static
<siretart> icf7: for more complicated cases you probably need to write a linker script
<stefanlsd> icf7: not sure if its what u need, but i wrote this and it may help - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/stefanlsd/dpkg-gensymbols
 * slytherin wonders why all the songs have suddenly started playing at more than normal speed >-(
<icf7> siretart: these internal functions are scattered in a lot of helper files, therefore static would hide them from the other code files of the library too, wouldn't it?
<slytherin> :-(
<siretart> icf7: indeed. in that case, things get more complicated.
<icf7> stefanlsd: Thanks. I read parts of it, but I'm now going to read it in-depth. Sorry for my ignorance, I'm used to Java
<stefanlsd> icf7: may need some work also. its still very much a draft...
<sirex`> /tmp/php/php5-5.2.6/ext/zip/lib/zip_close.c:252: internal compiler error: in adjust_add_sorted_back_dep, at sched-deps.c:1886
<sirex`> Is this some thing wrong with code or this is something wrong with build system?
<siretart> 'internal compiler error' is pretty clear, isn't it?
<sirex`> siretart: no it isn't, actualy I don't understand this message.
<sirex`> Does it means, that problem not with source, but with compiler?
<siretart> the latter
<siretart> err, yes
<sirex`> Well, trying one more time, maybo this time it will finish succesfully.
<icf7> siretart: As far as I understand, using a linker script is pretty complicated and not common. Is there any other way? How do popular libraries solve this (Don't they have any helper function files?)?
<siretart> icf7: careful planning when designing a shared library helps pretty much here
<siretart> icf7: you could also experiment with the default visibility flag of gcc. set the default to 'not visible', and mark public and exported functions as such.
<icf7> siretart: Thanks, I'll try that
<siretart> icf7: but this is again something that really should be done upstream, not in a debian package
<icf7> siretart: ok. Is there any chance to get a package with a symbol like stack_create accepted without waiting for upstream? It's a pretty new and small project, I suppose it could take weeks to integrate that
<siretart> icf7: not without effords less than comparable to forking upstream, I'd say.
<icf7> siretart: Thanks, I'll take that into account
<es> Anyone knows how to get the configure option used to build a deb? And what action dpkg-reconfigure do?
<slytherin> es: You can download respective source package from repositories, extract the .diff.gz file and check debian/rules file for configure options.
<slytherin> es: dpkg-reconfigure is not at all related to it. It helps you reconfigure the application already installed on your machine.
<es> slytherin: thanks, about  dpkg-reconfigure I'd like to know what action is taken by a  particular package to manually run them stepby step
<es> I'm in the need to try out latest version of sympa the version in the tree  it's old andnot working
<slytherin> es: I don't understand
<es> slytherin: sorry I reformulate. I wan't to know what dpkg-reconfigure will do toconfigure a package since I'll  have to install from source and I don't want to follow what dpkg-reconfigure normally do for it
<slytherin> es: That do I think you can find in the source package in postinst file. But since you are installing from source dpkg-reconfigure won't come into picture unless you explicitely call it.
<es> slytherin: thanks, however after apt-get source <package> I still don't see where are stored the configure option used to build
<slytherin> es: go the directory that contains extracted source and then debian/rules file
<es> slytherin: great thanks!
<slytherin> Can anyone please tell me how to setup requestsync?
<StevenK> What's to set up? You just run it.
<slytherin> StevenK: I tried in past but the bug reports didn't show up on launchpad. So I usually manually copy all the content it creates.
<Laney> slytherin: Do you use --lp?
<slytherin> Laney: no
<slytherin> doesn't it work without --lp?
<Laney> It should do, but it uses the email interface then
<Laney> --lp uses py-lp-bugs, which I've found to be more reliable
<slytherin> Laney: which package contains py-lp-bugs?
<slytherin> oops, it is already installed
<slytherin> wow, --lp worked. :-)
<morgs> I want to upload a package from debian into my PPA. I ran dpkg-source -x *.dsc, then debuild -S -sa - but debsign failed since I'm not the debian maintainer. What do I need to change to use my identity?
<cody-somerville> morgs, -kyour.email@address.com
<directhex> is it worth getting a pet DD to sign my key?
<morgs> cody-somerville: thanks
 * RainCT is either going to kill himself or kill Samsung.. argh!!    xDD
<huats> nxvl: around ?
<norsetto> huats!
<huats> norsetto: !
<norsetto> gotcha ...
<huats> I did it willingly
<huats> since you seems a bit unhappy yesterday :)
<slytherin> persia: can you please give back jhove - https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/jhove/+builds Not sure why it picked up JAVA_HOME as openjdk directory even though it depends on sun-java5-jdk.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<morgs> How do I upload a package (from debian) into my ppa for both hardy and intrepid?
 * norsetto doesn't bow to super master bddebian
<slytherin> morgs: launchpad allows copying a source package form one ubuntu release to another.
<bddebian> Hrmph :)
<morgs> slytherin: using +copy-packages? same as for copying from one ppa to another?
<morgs> ah, nice.
<morgs> Thanks
<smagoun> maybe a dumb question, is there someplace I can search the full source of Ubuntu (Hardy)? For example I want to find the definition of xf86HandleColormaps(...), or I want to find the package that contains gdk_x11_drawable.c.
<smagoun> (I don't need help finding these particular things - they're just examples)
<slytherin> smagoun: what do you mean by full source?
<azeem> unpacked source trees of all the source packages, maybe
<smagoun> slytherin: like, all the source in Ubuntu. I could apt-get source every package then just run grep/find, but that sounds like lots of disk/lots of work
<azeem> smagoun: the latter (finding files in packages) can be done via apt-file or http://packages.ubuntu.com
<azeem> the former not
<norsetto> devfil_: any luck with wxwidgets2.6 ?
<slytherin> smagoun: I don't think there is any complete source cd anywhere. You can find which package contains particular files from http://packages.ubuntu.com
<devfil_> norsetto: pochu is working on it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wxwidgets2.6/+bug/274619 I've seen this bug and so I haven't looked at the code
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274619 in wxwidgets2.6 "python-wxgtk2.6 fails to install to the python search path" [High,In progress]
<norsetto> devfil_: ah yes
<superm1> smagoun, use apt-file search to look for it
<superm1> or packages.ubuntu.com has it
<superm1> oh azeem already said that
<superm1> my bad :)
<norsetto> devfil_: that would have to be done for wxwidget2.8 too then
<devfil_> norsetto: I prefer to see pochu fix firstly in order to do it also in wxwidgets2.8
<norsetto> devfil_: yes, thats what I mean
<smagoun> azeem slytherin superm1: Thanks all.
<devfil_> norsetto: ok ;)
<henux> Hello. I am an able Linux programmer with knowledge of computer languages. I am looking for a mentor for me as I would like to try contributing into Ubuntu.
<slytherin> henux: it really depends on which are you want to contribute to.
<henux> slytherin: i have no idea
<henux> slytherin: im just looking for something
<slytherin> henux: check the Contributing link in the topic.
 * slytherin has to go.
<henux> so this crap is truly what you call a mentorship program?
<jdong> oh that's a great attitude :)
<azeem> henux: I'm sure you can pay for better programs
<persia> Bother.  slytherin left.
<henux> in the web page there is a message explaining that everyone is given a mentor, then when i ask one you say "take this link, read it, knock yourself off, its fun, i gotta go, bye"
<persia> Anyway, I'm not giving back jhove : it FTBFS because ant depends on "default-jre-headless | java1-runtime-headless | java2-runtime-headless", none of which is supplied by sun-java5-jdk, which is why it gets openjdk, and fails.
<jdong> henux: umm... he took the time to answer your question, then had to leave for unrelated reasons.
<jdong> the links he gave you help YOU figure out what area you'd like to contribute in
<jdong> once you have a better idea of that, we can give you more applicable advice.
<persia> henux: There is a mentoring program, to which you can sign up, and wait for a mentor to be assigned.  This may take a fairly long time.
<henux> okay then i will come back here later and we will see about what comes
<persia> henux: On the other hand, if you're interested in something specific, jump right in, and ask questions here, and a variety of people will help you.
<henux> i will ask when there is a specific interest
<jdong> henux: look forward to that :). Thanks for your interest in contributing!
<henux> i joined the channel in the hopes that somebody could have given me pointers, and this one did, and i will read it so we may perhaps discuss about this later on
<iulian> Hi
<Allah> hi
<es> it's there a way to build from source without a gpg key?
<DktrKranz> es: debuild -uc -us
<es> thanks
<bfiller> general packaging question for anyone: does debian/postinst script get passed any args that it can determine whether the package is being installed for the first time or upgraded?
<bfiller> I know preinst gets these args, but does not appear for postinst
<bfiller> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html talked about "configure" and "abort-remove", but not sure about these
<persia> bfiller: Heaps of them.  Best resource i know is http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/MaintainerScripts
<bfiller> persia: great, thanks
<persia> That has nice graphs and stuff, although is otherwise just a restatement of policy.
<nxvl> huats: ping
<geser> but it's probably easier to understand than the policy
<huats> hey nxvl
<huats> how are you ?
<nxvl> good
<nxvl> just come back home
<huats> ok
<huats> nxvl: regarding the mentoring reception meeting, any prefered time ?
<huats> day ?
<nxvl> i will prefer from Tue to Thu at 13:00 UTC
<nxvl> actually from 13:00
<bfiller> persia: looks like from the flowchart that only "configure" is passed to postinst on both install and upgrade (assuming no errors)
<persia> bfiller: That's a dangerous assumption, but yes, the common case.
<huats> nxvl: ok
<huats> (I'll do my best...)
<bfiller> persia: so how does the postinst script tell if it's being run during an upgrade as opposed to an install?
<nxvl> huats: \o/
<persia> bfiller: $2
<persia> (it even knows whether it's being upgraded or downgraded, and by how much)
<bfiller> persia: ah, $2 is the previous package version or null?
<persia> bfiller: It is always the previous package version: null simply indicates the absence of a previous package :)
<bfiller> persia: excellent, thanks for the help
<ScottK> norsetto: Since you've got amd64 and that seems to be where the issues are, would you mind sorting through Bug 257403 and seeing what we need to do to update it?  Releasing with an old Flash is not a good plan.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257403 in flashplugin-nonfree "[Intrepid] FFe request for Flash 10 RC2 (10.0.12.10)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257403
<directhex> agreed
<norsetto> ScottK: I don't use flash myself, but what the guy is saying is that there is a lib missing in ia32-libs
<directhex> rc2 is much much better
<ScottK> norsetto: Right, but someone who understands this stuff and has amd64 needs to test it.  I've got no amd64.
<directhex> oh, is he saying lubcurl is missing?
<directhex> because that's true
 * directhex checks bug
<norsetto> ScottK: oh gosh, you want me to install something that I wouldn't touch with a pole 1 mt long?
<ScottK> Just for testing.
<ScottK> norsetto: We need someone with amd64 to do it.
<norsetto> ScottK: I don't kno why \sh hasn't included that lib, and if that was on purpose
<directhex> flash 10 definitely needs libcurl
<ScottK> ping \sh ^^^^ ?
<ScottK> We'll see what he has to say then.
<directhex> wait, hang on... it certainly USED to...
<norsetto> ScottK: hmm, I don't think that omission was on purpose, there is no mention of that lib being needed in bug 246911
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246911 in ia32-libs "[Wishlist] please add libnspr4-0d to ia32-libs" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246911
<norsetto> ScottK: this is funny, I don't understand why libgnutls is not picked up by shlibs for libnss-ldap
<ScottK> norsetto: I have no idea what the right answer is, but I'm pretty sure you'll have a better shot than me and we (somehow) need to get this sorted before release.
<norsetto> ScottK: it is required anyhow, ldd clearly shows it for the stock one
<norsetto> ScottK: oh well, what would happen to include that in ia32-libs, beside yet another one that we 64 bit users have to live with?
<norsetto> (for the sake of flash, of all things ....)
<ScottK> I think it's better to add stuff and be sure than not.
<norsetto> ScottK: right, so, I'd rather have \sh look into it since he did the last update, or at least talk with him before I can upload an updated ia32-libs with that myself
<ScottK> OK.  We just need to make sure we don't forget it before release.
<norsetto> ScottK: np, I'm subscribing to that bug
<ScottK> Great.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<norsetto> ScottK: np
<kirkland> DktrKranz: hey, i was trying to fix a trivial manpage bug in kmediafactory, but I can't get it to build for intrepid, depends on libdvdread3-dev, which doesn't exist
<DktrKranz> kirkland, did you notice issues with newer libdvdread-dev?
<kirkland> DktrKranz: i couldn't get it to build at all in intrepid
<DktrKranz> do you have buildlogs available?
<kirkland> DktrKranz: checking the build logs, i see that it's not built thus far in intrepid
<kirkland> DktrKranz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kmediafactory/+bug/277200
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277200 in kmediafactory "kmf_dvb_edit manpage installed in "man/sh/1" directory" [Low,Confirmed]
<kirkland> DktrKranz: that has the tail of the build log, just the error
<kirkland> DktrKranz: i can rebuild again, and capture the build log
<DktrKranz> oh... API change
<DktrKranz> kirkland, seems something similar to http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2007-July/032901.html
<kirkland> DktrKranz: hrm
<DktrKranz> kirkland, try passing -fno-inline to CFLAGS, just to see it it builds
<DktrKranz> but it's definitely ugly
<kirkland> DktrKranz: rebuilding....
<kirkland> DktrKranz: no luck
<DktrKranz> kirkland, I'm leaving for a couple of hours, I'll have a look later
<kirkland> DktrKranz: no problem, very, very low priority, as far as i'm concerned
<kirkland> DktrKranz: i was just trying to fix a misplaced manpage
<asomething> james_w: thanks for the uploads!
<james_w> asomething: thanks for the fixes!
 * ScottK notes that asomething has an UCD application pending and now that james_w is one of his sponsors, he may want to comment.
<james_w> ScottK: ah, thanks
<james_w> asomething: drop me links to the bugs that I just sponsored in PM and I'll comment
<ScottK> james_w: No problem.
<asomething> ScottK: thanks, my app has seemed to have stalled, i could use a little positive feedback =)
<asomething>  james_w: will do
<ScottK> asomething: Yes, I'd noticed.  Hopefully this will help.
<james_w> oh, in fact it's a UCD application
<james_w> asomething: forget the bugs
<james_w> I need to eat first though
<ScottK> Didn't I say UCD?
<james_w> you did, I'm just low on calories
<ScottK> Ah.  Fair enough.
<sebner> kirkland: still around?
<kirkland> sebner: hi
<sebner> kirkland: hi, do you still plan to do something with bug #243205 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243205 in mythtv-status "Merge mythtv-status 0.8.1-2 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243205
<kirkland> sebner: yeah, i'll fix it
<kirkland> sebner: unless you want it :-)
<sebner> kirkland: not if you want ;) at least anyone of us should do it ^^
<kirkland> sebner: i need to update the patch
<kirkland> sebner: i'll do that and upload tonight
<sebner> kirkland: great :)
<kirkland> sebner: thx for the reminder
 * sebner hugs kirkland :)
<fabrice_sp> Hi. I received an email saying that kdenlive didn't build correctly on hppa (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18102379/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-hppa.kdenlive_0.5.svn20071228-0.0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz). I think that's because missing packages, that don't built on hppa, but can someone confirm that? Thanks
<persia> fabrice_sp: I think you want to port to kdelibs5-dev, as I don't think kdelibs4-dev works properly anymore, but I'm not much of a KDE person.
<persia> fabrice_sp: I think the libmlt issue is hppa-only: you might see if you can figure out how to get that built for hppa.
<ScottK> Actually kdelibs4-dev is still mostly around.
<fabrice_sp> persia: this package build successfully on all arch, except hppa, so you think that it could be because of kdelibs4-dev?
<fabrice_sp> I'll check anyway
<persia> fabrice_sp: Not any more.  If ScottK says it's around, then it's around.
<persia> On the other hand, there's something broken for hppa for that package, which probably needs to be fixed.
<ScottK> Since it's an installability problem it's almost certainly something didn't build on hppa.
<fabrice_sp> Where can I check the package build status for hppa? I've not been able to find it in the source package page
<fabrice_sp> (for the missing packages)
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: kdelibs build for hppa: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdelibs/4:3.5.10-0ubuntu5/+build/714435
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Do you have hppa hardware?
<fabrice_sp> thanks ScottK: I'll check if kdelibs4c2a is there (if the build is ok, it should be the case)
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Check and see if it's actually installable or not.
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> ScottK: The build is successful, and the package is listed in the build log. How do I check if it's installable or not? (I can't find hppa in the general repository)
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: If you're on hppa, just install it.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK: I'm on i386 (not even amd64 :-/ ). Should I install a VM for that?
<ScottK> It's hard to test hppa installability without hppa.  You might ask NCommander to check.  IIRC he has access to hppa hardwar.
<ScottK> e.
<NCommander> ew, wait?
<NCommander> argh
 * NCommander runs
<fabrice_sp> lol
<NCommander> damn you HP, you made me the victum of more work by granting my HPPA request
<NCommander> What package do you need to test installability of on HPPA?
<ScottK> kdelibs4c2a
<fabrice_sp> NCommander: it's just a matter of checking that packages kdelibs4c2a, libopenexr-dev, libmlt++0.2.5 and libmlt0.2.5
<fabrice_sp> (according to build log of kdenlive: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18102379/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-hppa.kdenlive_0.5.svn20071228-0.0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz)
<fabrice_sp> are installable
 * NCommander checks
<NCommander> Testing installability
 * fabrice_sp waves NCommander
<NCommander> HPPA is evil
<NCommander> hold on, had to enable universe
<NCommander> fabrice_sp, not installable
<NCommander>   kdelibs4c2a: Depends: libopenexr2ldbl (>= 1.2.2) which is a virtual package.
<NCommander>   libglib2.0-data: Depends: libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.18.1-1) but 2.17.3-1ubuntu1 is to be installed.
<ScottK> Looks like most of KDE Is currently uninstallable on hppa: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing-ports/intrepid_probs.html
<fabrice_sp> NCommander: Thanks for the test. As KDE seems to be uninstallable on hppa, I won't worry about that.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK: Thanks also for the link
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Or you could help fix it.
<NCommander> \p/
<fabrice_sp> ScottK: I'll try, but as I don't have a hppa, it will be difficult to follow the build dependencies.
<fabrice_sp> but with the link you sent, it will be easier
<ScottK> NCommander: OK, Mr. FTBFS, what's your diagnosis: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18079762/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-hppa.glib2.0_2.18.1-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<sebner> ScottK: we two need a FTBFS hero, hmm? :)
<ScottK> sebner: Go for it.
<NCommander> You have an infinite loop :-)
<sebner> ScottK: hmm? ^^
<NCommander> or something equivelent
 * directhex hands NCommander cake
<NCommander> ScottK & directhex, can I ask you to look over my wiki page?
<directhex> NCommander, up to 8700 users of my mono repo \o/
<directhex> NCommander, sure
<NCommander> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichaelCasadevall#preview
<sebner> directhex: O_o
<NCommander> o_o;
<ScottK> NCommander: You can ask.
<ScottK> ;-)
 * NCommander throws his RS/6000 at ScottK 
<sebner> let's make a "Ask ScottK session"
<NCommander> The RS/6000 goes klunk. The ScottK's foot is injuried! He curses loudly!
<ScottK> Cursing loudly is pretty normal for me.
<sebner> lol
<directhex> sebner, that's for i386 and amd64 combined
<sebner> directhex: /me is still impressed
<directhex> exact numbers on http://directhex.mfgames.com/hardy.html
<sebner> directhex: O_o enemy of getdeb? ^^
<NCommander> I think the day I go apt-get remove nethack, it will be a good thing
<directhex> sebner, not per se, i just wanted a small focused repo. i don't really see getdeb as the right place for "major frameworks"
<directhex> sebner, still, 8700 people can't be wrong... right?
<sebner> directhex: ^^, sure but you also have normal apps (ok, mono related but nvm)
<directhex> sebner, the only "app" app is tangerine, which is patched with some patches i wrote. they've been added to pkg-cli-apps svn now though, so i can start syncing the jaunty package once it exists
<sebner> directhex: kk, \o/ sync \o/
 * sebner loves syncs ^^
<ScottK> NCommander: You need some insure/ensure I think in there.
<directhex> sebner, i've been working on making mono syncable for jaunty, which will be nice
 * NCommander super-hugs didrocks 
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> damn it
<NCommander> directhex,
<ScottK> NCommander: Also you need to fix glib2.0 on hppa is you want to live up to your claims.
<ScottK> is/if
<NCommander> You don't ask little things do you :-P
<sebner> directhex: really? syncable? GREAT. mono and sync? I love you :D
<directhex> sebner, there's one remaining "real" merge reason, which i'm working on with upstream
<ScottK> NCommander: Other than that, I think it looks good.
<directhex> sebner, the "symlinked doc dirs" one i want to drop - the disk space rise will be MORE than offset by the mono 2.0 package transition savings
<sebner> directhex: \o/ \o/ \o/
<directhex> sebner, mono20transition should save 10-20 meg or so on the jaunty cd
<sebner> directhex: sounds great :) /me uses trunk though ^^
<directhex> sebner, well i obviously can't help (or support) that
<sebner> directhex: ^^, kk. But I really appreciate your work with mono(-related) stuff :)
<directhex> sebner, meebey's the real brains, i'm just a contributor
<directhex> sebner, but i like to think of myself as the force behind keeping mono on ubuntu in good shape
<sebner> directhex: that's what I mean ;)
<directhex> and i try where i can to make those improvements using "svn ci" in pkg-mono and pkg-cli-apps
 * sebner hugs directhex :)
<NCommander> directhex, any comments of my wiki page
<directhex> NCommander, needs pictures!
<cody-somerville> Oops
<cody-somerville> I just accidentally deleted it.
<sebner> gn8 folks :)
<NCommander> o_O;
<NCommander> what did you accidently delete
<radix> hey, what's the best channel for general Ubuntu packaging help?
<leleobhz> here?
<leleobhz> #ubuntu-devel maybe
<radix> welp, ok :-)
<persia> No.  Here.
<radix> I'm not a MOTU or core-dev, but I'm trying to package some stuff that I'll publish in a PPA
<mathiaz> radix: here is the best place
<radix> thanks :-)
<persia> radix: Then you'll get limited help, but still some, and this is the closest to the right place you'll find.
<leleobhz> radix: this dont matter :]
<leleobhz> matter you attempt to devel under/for ubuntu :]
<leleobhz> radix: what is?
<radix> I'm making some new packages for some existing software, and I've built lots of packages before, but I'm getting an "cannot represent change to .bzr/blahblah"
<persia> radix: debuild -I -i
<radix> and I've built other packages from bzr branches, so I'm not sure what I'm doing different now
 * radix reads manpage for those options
<mathiaz> radix: I've this line to ~/.devscripts DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS="-i -I.bzr -I.svn -ICVS -k0x${GPGKEY}"
<radix> I wonder why I never had to do that
<mathiaz> radix: so that whenever I build a source package .bzr .svn and CVS are not included.
<persia> mathiaz: Most of that is hardcoded into the scripts anyway: you only need -i -I
<persia> mathiaz: Also, you really don't want -k unless you're sponsoring : it will bite you on a changelog entry eventually.
<radix> ok, welp, it worked
<mathiaz> persia: -k -> howc come ?
<persia> mathiaz: -k is to sponsor an upload.  If you need it normally, either your debian/changelog entry is wrong, or your key is misconfigured.
<persia> It also *always* signs the packages, so if you have a mistake with your changelog entry, it signs the package anyway, without any warning.
<mathiaz> persia: hm - I usually debuild -S -uc -us
<persia> If, for some reason, your DEBEMAIL isn't set when you run dch, this may result in unexpected values in the package changelog.
<mathiaz> persia: and then sbuild _sources.changes.
<ajmitch> like persia@localhost.localdomain? :)
<persia> mathiaz: How do you upload?
<mathiaz> persia: via dput
<persia> ajmitch: Well, that one got sponsored by someone, but yes :)
<mathiaz> persia: dput local _source.changes.
<persia> mathiaz: OK.  When do the packages get signed?
<mathiaz> persia: but true then I have to sign them.
<mathiaz> persia: right - I sign the _sources.changes and dsc on a different machine.
<slangasek> I set -k consistently; there's no reason I would not have my environment right when running dch, and it saves history completion hassle
<persia> Right.  If you're signing them separately from building source, -k is not only dangerous, but wrong.
<persia> s/wrong/useless/
<persia> slangasek: Ah.  I sometimes build source in chroots when the dependencies for debian/rules clean are onerous.
<slangasek> persia: I frequently build source in chroots; my chroots mount /home :)
<persia> My chroots mount home, but don't preserve my environment (so I lose DEBEMAIL, etc.).  This is somewhat intentional, as I don't pass the environment preservation flag.
<slangasek> oh, well, I don't preserve my environment, it's just re-sourced from ~ when chrooting
<persia> Hrm.  Most of my environment doesn't get resourced.  Perhaps I'm keeping things in a different place.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-03
<TheMuso> c
<RAOF> :)
<ajmitch> ugh?
<wgrant> jdong: You're a forum person, aren't you?
<jdong> wgrant: I am.
<wgrant> jdong: How does one get one's account renamed?
<jdong> wgrant: depends on the reason for it being renamed. officially we don't do it, but extenuating circumstances can be evaluated :)
<wgrant> Ah. Damn.
<Hobbsee> jdong: do you want anything else sponsored ever again?  If so, you'd better do the rename :P
<jdong> wgrant: that extenuating circumstances part was an invitation to PM.
<jdong> :)
<wgrant> jdong: Aha.
<RAOF> directhex: Rock!  monodoc 1.9
<Tetracomm> Hello.
<Tetracomm> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272210
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272210 in ubuntu "Megatunix needs to be packaged and added to the repository." [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<RAOF> Tetracomm: That's unlikely to see any action until after the Intrepid release.
<Tetracomm> Why?
<suicideducky> hello there, I am not sure if this is the right place to ask, but how would I go about helping out with MOTU activies / becomming a MOTU??
<wgrant> Tetracomm: FeatureFreeze was months ago.
<Hobbsee> Tetracomm: because there's a release in under a month?
<wgrant> suicideducky: The topic has a good link.
<Tetracomm> :(
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Shh, don't tell the users.
<suicideducky> hahahaa thanks wgrant >.<
<Hobbsee> wgrant: oh. my bad.
<Tetracomm> I really want to see it packaged.
<Tetracomm> Could anyone recommend any software that would help me to create a .deb package?
<wgrant> There's no magic incantation that will do it.
<RAOF> !packagingguide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<RAOF> There's the software.  It runs on your brain :)
<Tetracomm> That takes too long.
<Hobbsee> Tetracomm: which is precisely why things don't get put into the release, so late, when people are focussing on existing bugs.
<Tetracomm> Ok.
<Tetracomm> I really want to help, but that looks so complicated,
<Tetracomm> .
<ScottK> jdong: Given the firefox propensity for security problems, I think you either ought to update it in gutsy-backports or remove it.
<jdong> ScottK: agreed; I shall work on upgrading it over the weekend.
<didrocks> NCommander: too much love :) (even by error ^^)
<didrocks> morning :)
<geser> Hi didrocks
<IntuitiveNipple> I have an interesting packaging bug with xorg-server (hardy). A patch (21_glx_align_fixes) modifies ./configure.ac, *but* ./configure is not rebuilt, and ./configure isn't patched to match. This causes a FTBFS for the xdmx module, so that in turn was disabled (debian/rules ... --disable-dmx) as the 'fix' - the real fix would be to either patch ./configure or ship the package with the regenerated ./configure. How should this kind of issue
<IntuitiveNipple>  be dealt with?
<StevenK> Also patch configure in the same patch by regenerating ./configure with the *same* autoconf version
<IntuitiveNipple> StevenK: Thanks
<directhex> regenerate configure, distribute as a patch. that's how the packages i work with do it
<IntuitiveNipple> I thought that would be it, but it can get confusing, all the levels of indirection
<IntuitiveNipple> 2nd question. In the package, it builds some dbus bits and includes <dbus/dbus.h> but  libdbus-1-dev installs to /usr/include/dbus-1.0/dbus/dbus.h - do all the source-files get patched or is a symlink supposed to have been created in /usr/include/ by libdbus-1-dev ?
<StevenK> Neither
<StevenK> A -I flag should be added to gcc calls by autoconf
<IntuitiveNipple> ahhh good point :0
<IntuitiveNipple> and finally... 3rd question. The xorg-server source package, as shipped contains a whole bunch of symlinks, obviously accidently put there by some previous packager (e.g. GL/mesa/main/stencil.c -> /home/david/debian/xorg/git/lib/mesa/src/mesa/main/stencil.c) - should they be removed?
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: Nothing in base packages should either generate or depend on anything in /home, as I understand things.  Cleaning that up is probably a good idea.
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: yeah, that was my thought :)
<Burgundavia> IntuitiveNipple: that is probably david nusinow, one of the main debian xorg people
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: You'll be linking your git branch to a bug, and praising it's benefits in #ubuntu-x, right?
<IntuitiveNipple> perisa: It *looks* like someone was experimenting, trying to fix the FTBFS for dmx - which is caused by the incorrect 21_glx_align_fix patch
<IntuitiveNipple> Burgundavia: Yes, I thought that, having looked at changelog
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: Will I?
<IntuitiveNipple> #join #ubuntu-x
<IntuitiveNipple> oops lol
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: I hope so.
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: Also, where did you stick your patch to get kvm compiling on lpia?  I noticed it still FTBFS in the archives a couple days ago, and wanted to push that.
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: you've lost me? what git branch?! I don't have the package git externally visible :)
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: sheesh! Um, the source of kvm-74 in my PPA (one of the patches I think)
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: You're not basing your xorg-server stuff off the ubuntu git tree?  I'll go find it.
<persia> Thanks.  I'll see if I can extract it easily.
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: let me look locally
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: Thanks.
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: 1:72+dfsg-0ubuntu1~ppa4h "Fix: add debian/rules build capability for lpia and ia64"
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: Inherited by 1:74 of course
<persia> Right.  I'll try that against the current version in the archive.  One of my lpia laptops strangely supports vmx, and I'll actually use it.
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: If I recall correctly, I added "	QEMU_EXE = qemu-system-x86_64" to each of the lpia and ia64 cases
<persia> Looks like the git tree is git://git.debian.org/git/pkg-xorg/xserver/xorg-server : I'm not sure how the Ubuntu branch is stored.
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: Hrm.  lpia isn't 64-bit.  I'll try that, and in the worst case, try shifting it to x86.
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: oh, yeah. I saw the 'packaging' git reference but I've been working on the apt-get source package
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: No, there are two cases... the statement is added into both
<persia> Yeah, the apt-get source is a little out of date for X, as X moves pretty quick.
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: It doesn't do what it suggests... hence my original confusion when it first came up
<persia> Oh, so x86_64 doesn't actually mean x86_64?
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: strangely... no lol - it is just, if I recall correctly, a build dir or something similarly transient
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: The build-logs on my PPA will reveal how it is used
<persia> heh.  Right.  Well, when we last talked about it, my only lpia kit didn't support vmx, but Intel seems to have lost sight of the "L" in lpia, so I've a testbed now.
<persia> (well, it's still low-wattage, but it's dual-core with vmx, which doesn't strike me as trying to save every last joule)
<StevenK> Power Intel Architecture!
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: re xorg-server: hardy ships all the xdmx tools but not the module since it was FTBFS (the ./configure not patched issue), so I'm just fixing it so it will provide the xdmx module (1 or 2 other knock-on effects I'm chasing too).
<persia> I don't suppose you could do that for intrepid?  It's more likely to be easy to apply, and more likely to be beneficial to more people.
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: It looks as if 1.5.1 (Intrepid) has it fixed
<persia> Oh, cool.  No worries then.
<persia> Thanks for checking.
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: at least, it has --enable-dmx in debian/rules and I assume it isn't FTBFS
<persia> You'd have to check build logs to verify, but I think someone would notice.
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: package xdmx is in universe
<persia> Excellent then :)
<IntuitiveNipple> I've been using the Intrepid package as a clue-stick to sort out the hardy 'mess' :)
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: xdmx is allowing me to run 5 monitors on the laptop :p
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: USB<->VGA ?
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: DFT, VGA, s-video (projector), and xdmx to a dual-matrox 'twinview'
<persia> And the rest of the dual-matrox is just a headless server?
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: no, with xdmx the remote xserver becomes an extension of the local desktop
<persia> Right, but I'm guessing the remote computer running the xserver also becomes effectively headless, doesn't it?
<IntuitiveNipple> once i'd built the module and got the configuration sorted, I wanted to get the package to build too, so others can use it
<persia> (because it's granted access to the xserver to the remote session)
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: oh, I see what you mean... well, it seems there are several ways it can be done, both with the remote logged in, or logging in remotely. right now I've got 'dual-control'
<persia> Ah, so the xserver provides access for both the remote box and a local session?
<IntuitiveNipple> Until you mentioned it, I'd not really thought about it! I was just pleased when I finally got it to work :)
<IntuitiveNipple> I'll write up a wiki article on it once I'm clear :)
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: Thanks.  Now you just have to find a minion who will mine your wiki for all the good bits :)
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: It's called 'Google' :)
<IntuitiveNipple> and, there's only 'good' bits on my wiki!
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: Well, I'd say 80% : you move quickly enough that there's sure to be a fair bit of bitrot.
<persia> And my only issue with Google is that it doesn't have the patience to push the patches back to Debian and upstream :)
<IntuitiveNipple> it's only a matter of time :)
<persia> heh.  I suppose.
<IntuitiveNipple> funny you should mention that, actually. with the thread on the -devel mailing list I was working out an AI-based upstream patch submitter... give it a couple of 'best practice' bugs to to follow and then it'll figure it out for new bugs that have Ubuntu patches
<norsetto> \sh: around?
<persia> Nifty.  That would certainly solve some of the Ubuntu patch discussions, and probably be of inestimable value to you in not having to forward-port stuff.
<volkris> How do I package a program that is distributed in multiple source files?
<persia> volkris: In multiple source packages.
<persia> For example, consider a game that has separate upstream releases for the server, the artwork, the engine, the module, and the sound server.
<persia> This would be 5 different source packages, and probably 7-8 binary packages, depending on the contents of the source packages, and how they should be installed.
<persia> In my example, you could then add new packages for other contributed scenarios or artwork, and it would still work.
<volkris> can you think offhand of a package that does this?
<persia> uqm, uqm-content, uqm-voices, and uqm-music.
<volkris> I'll read up. Thanks.
<persia> That's multiverse, but it's the package like that I've touched the most.
<quadrispro> DktrKranz: what do you think about bug 275502 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275502 in mail-notification "Make mail fetchers recommended instead of suggested" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275502
<es> hello, I've followed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/HandsOn and I succesfully build a newer version of a package (sympa). dumb question: where is it? debuild -S -sa completed succesfully but I don't see the deb...
<azeem> debuild -S is for building source packages
<persia> es: You've successfully built an updated source package.  Congratulations.  To convert that into a binary package, you'll need to build it.
<azeem> look for .dsc and .diff.gz in the parent directory
<persia> Personally I use sbuild, for that, but many people use pbuilder.
<persia> !sbuild
<ubottu> sbuild is a system to easily build packages in a clean schroot environment.  To get started with SBuild, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<persia> !pbuilder
<ubottu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<es> thanks I'm looking to those links
<IntuitiveNipple> Do we have any xorg-server build experts ?
<persia> They tend to live in #ubuntu-devel, xorg-server being fairly core.
<volkris> In the package I'm working on I need to extract one tarball of makefiles and such, then another tarball of code that goes into the src/ subdirectory of the first.
<volkris> I don't know that this is the situation persia had in mind when  he said to distribute separate source pacakges
<volkris> The result of the compilation is basically a single executable file, but I don't know how to handle .orig files and such
<james_w> does anyone have a clue what the fix for the build problem in https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/271919 might be?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271919 in firebird2.1 "Sync firebird2.1 2.1.1.17910-release.ds1-1from debian experimental" [Wishlist,New]
<persia> volkris: Ah.  I thought of separate sources that weren't so intertwined.  No good suggestions for that : maybe a fiendishly compliex get-orig-source, or some sort of stacked tarball-in-tarball solution?
<volkris> I figured some other package somewhere would have dealt with this matter before
<volkris> I've packaged on gentoo pretty regularly, and they  have ways of extracting to specific places in the source tree
<volkris> Could repackaging end up being reasonable in this case?
<RAOF> volkris: That sounds like the only option, really.
<persia> Maybe, although I'd personally prefer to see layered tarball-in-tarball, as much as I generally dislike that format.  repacking breaks md5sum verification against upstream.
<RAOF> Something in source package format 3.0 might support you more, but nothing accepts it yet.
<persia> RAOF: No.  There remain many options, just none pretty.
<volkris> is unpacking of tarball in tarball handled through get-orig-source?
<persia> james_w: You might catch NCommander later : seems to be handy with the libtool change.
<persia> volkris: No.  get-orig-source would construct your tarball-in-tarball orig.tar.gz.
<volkris> I'll look into it
<persia> Then you need to add extra targets in debian/rules to unpack the tarballs in the right way, usually into a ./build/ directory defined in the diff.gz.
<quadrispro> anyone on bug 275502?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275502 in mail-notification "Make mail fetchers recommended instead of suggested" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275502
<persia> volkris: Be prepared for someone to complain about tarball-in-tarball, but it's slightly less distasteful than repacking.
<volkris> This is pretty specialized software for running particle accelerators, so I probably won't worry too much about distribution outside of the lab
<persia> volkris: Perhaps, but I'll encourage you to share it : other labs might find it useful, and I'd guess that having a somewhat standard system would let you actually focus on the problem, rather than managing particle accellerator drivers.
<persia> (plus I want to be able to say "Here's an Ubuntu disk.  It gets used for lots of things.  It can even run your particle accellerator")
<volkris> ha. Well, PPA at least
<persia> Well, PPA for now.  Come back in December, and we'll get it in the distro properl.
<sebner> james_w: well, we have to decide if we want an ipe that can handle *normal* ipe files or ubuntu ones :(
<james_w> sebner: yeah, it sucks
<james_w> I think it's partly the programs fault for using symbolic names in the files
<sebner> james_w:  ^^, the problem is we started patching ipe with feisty IIRC :\
<sebner> james_w: however, thx for you work :)
<james_w> no problem
<sebner> james_w: now you are a sponsor of mine :P
<morgs> I'm trying to copy a package in my PPA from hardy to intrepid, and I get "The following source cannot be copied: sugar-artwork 0.82.0-1ubuntu1~ppa1 in hardy (same version already has published binaries in the destination archive)" - even though it doesn't exist for intrepid yet.
<Laney> How can I see which packages provide an alternative via update-alternatives?
<ScottK> morgs: PPA questions should be directed to #launchpad.
<morgs> ScottK: thanks
<Riddell> persia, geser, soren, nixternal: what's the status of apachelogger's core-dev application?
 * persia checks
<persia> Riddell: Waiting for more review and comments at this point, from the archives.
<Riddell> huh?  I suspect it's had all it's going to get
<persia> I hope not.  It needs more input from MC members to get anywhere : it's essentially stuck in limbo right now.
<ScottK> I think all the sponsors have commented.
<Riddell> then this process isn't working.  if MC is blocking new members it needs to sort itself out or we'll just have to work around it
<persia> I agree the process isn't working.  I agree that sorting it makes sense.  I think that aside from ArchiveReorganisation, it's not best to work around it.  I have opinions about why it doesn't work, but no real understanding.
 * sebner missed the MOTU meeting. did anything special happen?
<persia> sebner: Nobody appears to have attended, or expressed anything.  There was no agenda.
<RainCT> hiya
<sebner> persia: kk, thx
<sebner> aloha RainCT :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<nixternal> persia, geser, soren: concerning apachelogger's core-dev app, I have already commented and voted
<persia> nixternal: Indeed.  In the very beginning of september.
<nixternal> jeesh, that long ago....what is the hold up?
<persia> The process seems broken.
<nixternal> slightly
<nixternal> I don't like the fact we are hung up on apachelogger when Kubuntu really needs him, especially with me being afk so much and not being able to package
<nixternal> or sponsor his work
<siretart> okay, the ffmpeg unstripped version actually seem to work. cool
<jdong> siretart: encoding junkies everywhere rejoice :)
<siretart> jdong: I just have had an tester next to me. it works with the packages from ~motumedia
<siretart> jdong: I'm seriously considering to upload them to ubuntu right now
<siretart> jdong: input welcome :)
<jdong> siretart: you know, that would solve a lot of the grievances out there but what about the encumberance issues?
<jdong> it would also resolve the medibuntu-ubuntu off-sync every time we do a ffmpeg update
<siretart> jdong: I think it makes the medibuntu ffmpeg package obsolete
<jdong> siretart: agreed. which would be a good thing for both teams
<jdong> siretart: and right now we're already half-hypocritical shipping the mpeg4-ASP encoder on by default
<jdong> and hell decoding of mpeg4 is already "encumbered" so honestly I think we should just ship it all...
<jdong> the question is whether it'd go into restricted or main...
<jdong> siretart: how well does it coexist with gstreamer and friends?
<siretart> jdong: it would go to multiverse
<siretart> jdong: as for gstreamer and friends: it conflict/replaces libavcodec51.
<jdong> siretart: sounds reasonable
<jdong> I think it'd be a good thing to have
<jdong> and I don't think any problems with archive since we've already got implementations of ALL of those encoders in other packages in multiverse
<siretart> exactly
<jdong> yeah I'd say just do it
<jdong> but given the mdz conversation in #u-d... I'd like to hear his response
<mr_pouit> siretart: so the only stuff remaining for medibuntu would be amr I guess (since libamr* is currently unredistribuable :])
<siretart> mr_pouit: yes, and I have even for that I have a solution or at least an idea how to fix that
<jdong> dlopen()?
<jdong> if you "magically" supply a libamr, ffmpeg-evil will find it :D
<morgs> norsetto: sugar install and build logs available - see bug 274820.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274820 in sugar "Sugar feature freeze exception" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274820
<siretart> exactly. the altlinux folks have a patch for that
<siretart> that way ubuntu's ffmpeg could dlopen() medibuntu's libamr libraries
<siretart> mr_pouit: please do have a look at the 'ffmpeg' source package in the ~motumedia PPA
<siretart> patches welcome, everything is in PPA under ~motumedia/ffmpeg
<siretart> patches welcome, everything is in bzr under ~motumedia/ffmpeg
<mr_pouit> ok
<norsetto> morgs: thanks. Did you check if there is any issue with upgrading?
<morgs> norsetto: no, I didn't check, but we will need some slight changes from the debian packages to handle two packages which are renamed: sugar-base -> python-sugar, and sugar-datastore -> python-olpc-datastore
<norsetto> morgs: right
<norsetto> morgs: I have no problem to ack this, if you could make sure that upgrades are fine that would be sweet
<jcastro> YokoZar: you dropping by for UDS/Fosscamp? I see you're basically local
<morgs> norsetto: I have a personal interest in making them work, being an upstream dev, so yeah :)
<norsetto> morgs: I bet ;-)
<james_w> sebner: have you seen bug 269301 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269301 in wordpress "[CVE-2008-3747] - wordpress before 2.6.1 ssl problem might allow remote attackers to gain administrative access by sniffing the network for a cookie" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269301
<FFEMTcJ> how is it possible to get a package in the repo's updated to the current version?
<sistpoty> hi folks
<siretart> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<siretart> sistpoty: do you have plans for this weekend? http://lusc.de/ww :)
<sistpoty> siretart: hm... I do have some plans for the weekend already :/
<slytherin> superm1: Have you checked latest comment on the bluez 4.x bug? LOL.
<superm1> slytherin, lets see.
<iulian> Hi
<superm1> slytherin, well I would hypothesize that those segfaults are probably null pointer checks, but we'll have to wait for a backtrace
<superm1> the important part is whether these are "regressions" :)
<superm1> slytherin, would you be able to craft a patch to make tooltips on the icons possibly?
<superm1> i'm working on a patch to properly set input devices to trusted mode
<slytherin> superm1: 1. I will be able to provide tooltips. I will have to check what is the current GTK+ requirement for bluez-gnome. If it >= 2.12 then our life is easier.
<superm1> slytherin, well we can easily bump the GTK requirement up if necessary
<superm1> slytherin, it's very highly unlikely we'll backport this since it only works with bluez 4.x
<slytherin> superm1: Ideally shouldn't we ask upstream to fix the tooltip problem?
<superm1> slytherin, well we can fix it and submit the patch upstream
<superm1> slytherin, they've got very few developers, so it would be fixed a lot quicker that way
<slytherin> superm1: Ok. Will do tomorrow.
<superm1> slytherin, okay great
<slytherin> superm1: by the way, by latest comment I meant the one by Christoph Langner
<fabrice_sp_> Hi. If upstream doesn't provide an icon for the app, can I package it without menu entry? Or I should use a generic icon?
<fabrice_sp_> (for bug #272210)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272210 in ubuntu "Megatunix needs to be packaged and added to the repository." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272210
<csilk> fabrice_sp_,
<csilk> are you abloe to test megatunix?
<csilk> *able
<csilk> I was origannly going to package megatunix per a user request but thought i best not when i realised i had no way to really test it
<csilk> *originally
<YokoZar> jcastro: Yeah, not much need for sponsorship this year.  I can probably crash at a friend's house.
<YokoZar> jcastro: which is lucky for you, as Wine will be in Main for Jaunty.
<es> I'm new to the ubuntu way of building package, pbuilder fails because the new upstream package has a new directory previusly not present. I specified it to debian/dirs without success, also there path looks weird they go in var/lib/something instead of usr/lib/something of the previously installed package.
<es> any advice?'
<jcastro> YokoZar: ok, I was thinking we should invite dan kegel since he's @ google also
<james_w> es: if you give the failure message then it may be easier to see what is going on
<es> james_w: sure thanks:) cp icons/*.png /usr/lib/sympa/static_content/iconscp: target `/usr/lib/sympa/static_content/icons' is not a directorymake[2]: *** [installicons] Error 1
<es> var/lib/sympa/static_content/iconsusr/lib/sympa/static_content/icons
<es> these are specified in dirs
<james_w> es: is the cp command in debian/rules?
<es> yes it's in configure options: --with-iconsdir=/usr/share/sympa/icons
<james_w> es: the "cp icons/*.png", is that in debian/rules?
<es> no
<james_w> es: is it in a Makefile?
<es> no I made a grep -R and I can't find it :/
<james_w> es: can you put the build log in a pastebin please?
<es> james_w: sure, thanks for your help but err where are the logs usually?
<james_w> es: you will have to build again with --logfile, or grab them from the scrollback in your terminal
<es> james_w: weird the logfile is not created I pasted from the terminal http://pastebin.myrror.net/1938
<es> james_w: thanks again for your help :)
<james_w> es: so it appears to be the wwsympa directory that has the problematic command
<james_w> es: can you pastebin the Makefile from that directory please?
<es> james_w: http://pastebin.myrror.net/1939
<es> line 102
<james_w> es: ah, should have spotted that
<james_w> *I* should have spotted that
<james_w> es: it's not using $DESTDIR
<es> ahh!
<james_w> es: so it's trying to install in to the real /usr, rather than ./debian/.../usr/
<es> yep! so it should be $(DESTDIR)/static_content/icons ?
<james_w> es: no, it should be $(DESTDIR)$(DIR)/static_content/icons I think
 * sistpoty is off again... cya
<es> james_w: yeah, we passed that error! now: cp sympa_soap_server-wrapper.fcgi /tmp/buildd/sympa-5.4.3/debian/sympa/usr/lib/cgi-bin/sympa/cp: cannot stat `sympa_soap_server-wrapper.fcgi': No such file or directory
<es> guess it's the same problem
<es> wwsympa-wrapper.fcgi: wwsympa-wrapper.fcgi.c Makefile ../Makefile        $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -DWWSYMPA=\"$(WWSYMPA)\" -o wwsympa-wrapper.fcgi wwsympa-wrapper.fcgi.c
<james_w> I think that's a different problem
<es> err no it's another line
<james_w> it can't find sympa_soap_server-wrapper.fcgi, does it ever build it?
<es> james_w:  where should I check out?
<es> james_w: actually I don't see it in the logs
<james_w> is it mentioned anywhere else in the Makefiles?
<es> james_w: nope
<es> cd sympa-5.4.3/wwsympa && grep sympa_soap_server-wrapper.fcgi Makefile  -> none
<fabrice_sp_> csilk: I assume that the user requesting the packaging will be able to test it (I'll put it in my ppa meanwhile). Anyway, I'm able to do some things.
<es> james_w: it's in soap/Makefile
<csilk> fabrice_sp_,  that's the only thing that stopped me form packaging it really
<csilk> *from
<fabrice_sp_> csilk: apart from a compilation error because of gcc4.3 and the missing icons, it's an easy package.
<fabrice_sp_> If you wan't, you can still package it
<fabrice_sp_> s/wan't/want/
<lfaraone> Hey, is there any way if I have to make a lot of debian sync requests (we already have FFEs for them) to do it in _one_ bug?
<es> james_w: well, thanks for your help, tomorrow I'll look into it better. I'm hungry and I my mind isn't working anymore as you can see :)
<csilk> fabrice_sp,  I wouldn't mind packaging it to be honest, I've been trying to get involved with ubuntu for a while now but it's hard managing a heavy load at university etc etc
<csilk> but if you wouldn't mind assiging the bug/request to me I'd love to do it
<csilk> *assigning
<geser> lfaraone: can't you just add the missing info for the sync to the FFE bugs? that way all infomation is in one place
<lfaraone> geser: It's one FFE bug.
<fabrice_sp> csilk: all your's. If you have problem, you can ping me here (if I am online)
<csilk> Thanks fabrice_sp
<geser> lfaraone: have you the bug number handy?
<lfaraone> geser: No, but it's against the "sugar" pacakge
<geser> I've found it (bug 274820)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274820 in sugar "Sugar feature freeze exception" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274820
<geser> lfaraone: how many package are affected?
<slytherin> doko: Do you plan to fix bug #254368 in intrepid? or is it deferred?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 254368 in openjdk "openjdk-6-jdk should depend on libxt-dev" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254368
<slytherin> anyone willing to test DVD playback fixes in gstreamer backported form upstream CVS? I am waiting for some feedback before I can submit the debdiff.
<bddebian> siretart: You around by any chance?
<emgent> heya
<bddebian> Hello emgent
<iulian> Hey bddebian and congrats!
<bddebian> Hi iulian, thanks
<bddebian> Gads, how the heck do you folks use LP anymore?  I've obviously been waaay too out of touch lately
<lfaraone> geser: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SugarTeam/Packages has a list
<siretart> bddebian: yes, a bit afk (lug event), but sort-of
<bddebian> siretart: Any idea what to do about xine-lib in Debian for Lenny?
<james_w> anybody have an opinion on bug 275502?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275502 in mail-notification "Make mail fetchers recommended instead of suggested" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275502
 * cody-somerville takes a look.
<geser> james_w: do you know how common are hotmail/yahoo accounts inside and outside the USA?
<james_w> pretty common I believe
<nxvl> james_w: if you are trying to sponsor it, please don't, see my comment
<nxvl> james_w: i don't want to have all of those packages i don't need in my system if i'm only using one of them
<james_w> nxvl: thanks
<nxvl> james_w: also i don't have that much experience with that package/tool but from the comments/report i get that you need at least one of them for the tool to work, but all of them is crazy
<nxvl> thatfor it will be | instead of , if you want to make the change anyway
<nxvl> i will suggest to talk to the DM better
<geser> I use mail-notification but with mutt and I don't need either of those packages
<ScottK> They are common, but I don't think they'd rise to needed except in unsual situations (which is the 'recommends' definition).
<james_w> I get the impression the tool isn't very good at hinting that you could install other packages to get the functionality
<james_w> Suggests is how the package should do that, but it helps if the program does as well
<geser> I could understand to add m-n-evolution to recommends (as evo is the default mua), but I don't know about getlive and fetchyahoo (it would be for me easier to accepts something for googlemail)
<james_w> I think gmail is still far smaller in overall usage
<nxvl> geser: that's why using "m-n-evolution | getlive | fetchyahoo" will be better, by default it will grab m-n-evolution
<nxvl> james_w: don;t bet
<james_w> nxvl: but that doesn't bring any benefit over Suggests, so it's not worth it in my opinion
<torkel> is it working with the current version of evo?
<nxvl> james_w: actually there is some apt option to install suggest by default
<nxvl> james_w: but yes, i agree with you on that
<cody-somerville> Is there atleast one fetcher module thingie installed by default?
<nxvl> james_w: i'm saying if it will be raised to Recommends, that is the way it should be rised
<siretart> bddebian: ?
<siretart> too bad, he already left
<cody-somerville> ScottK, ping
<cody-somerville> or anyone else from motu-release
<norsetto> cody-somerville: yes?
<cody-somerville> norsetto, bug #262156
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262156 in envyng-gtk "envynggtk.py crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262156
<norsetto> cody-somerville: yes?
<cody-somerville> motu-release I imagine should be responsible for ensuring that gets fixed or envyng gets removed from the archive.
<norsetto> cody-somerville: indeed, see bug 277126
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277126 in envyng-core "Update EnvyNG to 2.0.1" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277126
<cody-somerville> ok, thanks
<norsetto> cody-somerville: np
<sebner> norsetto: you making ad for your ppa? nice :)
<norsetto> sebner: yes, I'd like to provide 0.8.0 to intrepid users
<sebner> norsetto: nice :)
<norsetto> sebner: next version is also coming out pretty nice
<sebner> norsetto: ^^, in time for jaunty?
<norsetto> sebner: absolutely
<sebner> norsetto: great to hear :)
<james_w> lfaraone: hi, do you have a blanket FFe for the sugar sync requests?
<ScottK> james_w: They do.
<james_w> ScottK: thanks
<lfaraone> james_w: Yes.
<csilk> why does the wiki (packaging) not discuss what to do with all the extra files in /debian such as init.d.ex and all the manpage related files?
<csilk> etc
<nhandler_> csilk: They are example files. If you need them, you rename them (remove the .ex suffix). If you don't need them, you just delete them.
<csilk> nhandler_,  I'm not 100% sure what they are to be honest
<nhandler_> csilk: For most basic packages, you can safely remove the files. What are you packaging? Or what type of application is it?
<csilk> an app called megatunix, it's a software utility for measuring variious things within a combustion engine
<csilk> such as air to fuel ratio
<csilk> nhandler_, ^
<nhandler_> csilk: You most likely won't need the example init script for this application. Give me a second to check what other example files there are
<csilk> Thank you
<nhandler_> csilk: The only example files that you might want are the ones concerning the man page, the one for the watch file, and possibely the ones for the menu file and maintainer scripts. None of these are critical, and there are plenty of guides and wiki pages that outline how to create these files youself.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-04
<csilk> nhandler_,  Thanks, I following/learning from the instructions on the ubuntu wiki which only seems to deal with the most basic of packing tasks
<csilk> *I'm
<radix> csilk: are you following through the PackagingGuide at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete ?
<radix> I just went through it the other day (several times) and found it really helpful
<csilk> radix,  yes I am, Only just realised I've been looking at the "packaging from scratch" section for so long that I overlooked the fact that all the more advanced details are further down the page
<radix> yeah, it's long :)
<csilk> It's like snow blindness, you look at it for so long you can't see it anymore
<csilk> ;)
 * csilk takes coffee break
<radix> so, does anyone have advice about why this cdbs-using package just gives me "make: Nothing to be done for `binary'." when I try to build it? It's got autotools.mk and gnome.mk included and this is a standard autotools/gnome project
<james_w> radix: stab in the dark, but you may need debhelper.mk as well
<radix> james_w: oh, I've got it, sorry for not mentioning it
<radix> there's debhelper.mk, autotools.mk, utils.mk, and gnome.mk, in that order
<radix> nothing else in rules
<james_w> hmm, are you actually building any binary packages?
<james_w> i.e. is debian/control sane?
 * radix looks
<csilk> Is there any guide available to see what section a package woudl fit into?
<csilk> *woudl
<csilk> *WOULD
<radix> looks sane
<radix> oh craaap
<radix> james_w: thanks for pointing me in that direction
<radix> it's *not* sane
<radix> it's got "Architecture: i386" ;-)
<nhandler_> csilk: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections has a list of all of the sectoins. That might help you choose.
<csilk> radix,  is there something like a cheat sheet to give me an idea as to waht types of packages go into what section of the repositories?
 * radix points csilk at nhandler_ 
<csilk> yeah i hit return just as that was posted
<csilk> Hmm, I still don't really know which of the sections would be the most apppriate for this package
<csilk> I'm tempted to go for misc
<nhandler_> csilk: Are there any other packages in the repositories that are similar to the one you are working on?
<csilk> no
<csilk> there isnt any other software for linux similar to this
<james_w> csilk: if you describe it then others can give their opinions
<nhandler_> csilk: I'm not an expert at this, but I would suggest looking at the types of packages with a section of 'misc' and 'utils'. Those sound like they might be the most appropriate.
<csilk> The autor claims it to be: MegaTunix is the only tuning software for Unix. It's an engine tuning utility for measuring variables within a combustion engine such as fuel to air ratio etc etc
<nhandler_> I was just reading up about the Documentation String Freeze (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationStringFreeze), what is defined as Documentation?
<csilk> nhandler_,  it's between electronics and misc
<nhandler_> csilk: It is really your call. You know the application better than us. If a MOTU feels that it should have a different section, they will mention that in their comment on REVU.
<csilk> thanks nhandler_ , radix . I'll put it down as misc, people in #debain seem to aggree, and like you said revu can always change it if need be
<nhandler_> You're welcome csilk. Good luck with the packaging. I look forward to seeing it on REVU and in the repositories.
<csilk> Thanks, it's my first package. Now that I've got into the flow of managing university work I'm really looking forward to spending more time learning the internals of ubuntu
<E17> Hi! I now it's not an official support channel, but you're the best people to answer my little question. :) I have 7.04 and want to upgrade to 8.04. I know it's not a supported way of upgrading, but is it safe to replace "feisty" -> "hardy" in sources.list and make a dist-upgrade?
<nhandler_> E17: I would suggest upgrading to 7.10 (Gutsy) and then upgrading to 8.04 (Hardy). Modifying the sources.list is not a safe method of upgrading.
<E17> I wanted to get assured. Thanks. :) Will it be necessary in the future to do the same? Many people don't upgrade to every Ubuntu version.
<nhandler_> E17: That is the safest method. You can also simply do a fresh install.
<E17> I don't want to do so. Thus, I will be having Gutsy. :]
<slangasek> "Many people don't upgrade to every Ubuntu version" - that's fine, but the only upgrade path from 7.04 to later versions is to upgrade 7.10 -> 8.04; if you don't want to have to upgrade every 6 months when the version you're running is end-of-lifed, you might want to do both of those upgrades now...
<nxvl> slangasek: if you don't want to upload every 6 month, upload every 2 years - LTS -> LTS
<E17> ok, but is it possible to skip versions since 7.10? It's interesting.
<wgrant> You can only skip releases if you're going LTS->LTS
<wgrant> ie. 6.06 LTS -> 8.04 -> 10.04
<slangasek> right.  If you're on 7.04 now, the upgrade path to an LTS is 7.04 -> 7.10 -> 8.04
<slangasek> but you can do back-to-back upgrades...
<E17> Do you mean downgrades?
<wgrant> E17: No, he means upgrade from 7.04 to 7.10 and 7.10 to 8.04 in quick succession.
<E17> But it's still ~600M for 1. upgrade and ~600M for the second.
<E17> It's good I have 2Mbps. About an hour of downloading one "part".
<wgrant> Right.
<nhandler_> E17: You need to remember, it is a year's worth of changes you are installing. That is why it takes so long.
<E17> Yes, I understand this. However, if it was possible to have in older Ubuntu versions the newest (but less important only) packages (in official repos, -backports maybe), upgrade would be smaller.
<E17> For example, there's newest wine in Hardy, but older in still supported Gutsy. It's OK for important packages, but not so friendly to the other ones.
<E17> I don't moan, just type what I think. I really like Linux, Ubuntu and the Free/Open Source world.
 * E17 says good night / good bye, depending of your country
<csilk> if I've got an AUTHORS file like this > http://pastebin.com/m2171c9ab  should i just credit the lead/main developer or should i list everone in that AUTHORS file even though some of them didn't do any developement, they did things like donate hardware etrc?
<csilk> *everyone
<nhandler_> If I am requesting an upgrade of a package to a new upstream release (not in Debian), I know I need the .diff.gz. Do I also need a debdiff?
<nxvl> nhandler_: use revu
<nxvl> nhandler_: revu.ubuntuwire.com
<nxvl> nhandler_: and attach the link to the bug report
<nxvl> nhandler_: the whole package is prefered
<nhandler_> nxvl: I've heard mixed things about using REVU for new upstream releases. The package is already in the repositories. Should I use REVU, or should I just upload the files to a Launchpad bug report?
<ScottK-laptop> nhandler_: Attaching the .diff.gz to a bug is the official way.  If a potential sponsor wants it on review, you might as well put it there so you get sponsored.
<csilk> exit
<nhandler_> Ok, thanks ScottK-laptop. Do I need to provide a debdiff along with the .diff.gz?
<nxvl> nhandler_: it's a matter of preferences, i just check it if it's in revu :D
<ScottK-laptop> No.  It's pretty sensless for a new upstream.
<csilk> Anyone got a clue why pbuilder keeps throwing me an error > make: *** [config.status] Error 1
<csilk> says it cant find "flex"
<nhandler_> Ok, thanks ScottK-laptop and nxvl. I already have the files attached to a LP bug report. If a sponsor requests that I move it to REVU, I will. The advantage to keeping it on LP is that I only need one MOTU to look it over and upload it, vs the 2 needed for REVU
<ScottK-laptop> nhandler_: One versus two is new upstream versus new package.  Doesn't matter if it's on revu or not.
<nxvl> csilk: then add flex to the build depends
<nxvl> or flex-dev or something like that
<csilk> i did
<nxvl> then you added the wrong package
<nxvl> it's looking for flex as library
<nxvl> not as package (i think)
<nxvl> what package is it again?
<csilk> flex
<nxvl> \o/ my first patch to the -installer
<nxvl> \o/
<nxvl> csilk: package flex?
<csilk> yup
<nxvl> csilk: can you send me the lp link to the package please
<nxvl> (and version)
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: did you know if there is a policy for bzr branches sponsorship?
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: just propose the merge with the oficial one and subscribe the team to that?
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: There is not.
<ScottK-laptop> AFAIK MOTU sponsorship process is built around debian packages.
<nhandler_> ScottK-laptop and nxvl: I just re-read the REVU wiki page "If you packaged a new upstream version (of a package that is already in the archives), and you want to get it sponsored, do not use REVU to get it sponsored. Instead see SponsorshipProcess."
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: it's a main sponsorship
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.
<ScottK-laptop> I was confused by what channel we're in.
<ScottK-laptop> Dunno what the rules might be for that then.
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> i will need to ping colin on monday
<nxvl> need to go
<csilk> god damn
<csilk> dont you just hate it when life gets in the way of productivity
<csilk> success, one passed out girlfriend recovered from one friends bathroom
<csilk> nxvl, i fixed the flex problem, i was just overlooking several dependencies
<csilk> added them to the control file now and all is well
<NCommander> argh, I missed the MOTU meeting
<NCommander> I seem to be alseep whenever we have them
<cody-somerville> me too
 * NCommander listens to the theme of House MD
<cody-somerville> ...
<cody-somerville> NCommander, are you peaking at my last.fm?
<NCommander> No, youtube
 * NCommander thinks House is awesome
<csilk> I know revu don't usually accept packages that have no man pages, but what if the app has no written documentation in the first place?
<ScottK> csilk: All the more reason you should write a man page for it.
<csilk> ScottK,  thing is, i cant test this software as it requires specialist hardware
<csilk> so there is no way i can write the documentation
<ScottK> Use the source luke.
<csilk> haha if only it were that simple
<geser> NCommander: there was a MOTU meeting that actually took place?
<NCommander> geser, that seems to be the popular opinion
<\sh> moins
<allee> siretart: fyi: almost done merging fai 3.2.11.  Will try to find time to test (later)
 * allee afk
<iulian> Good morning.
<siretart> allee: excellent, thanks
<jpds> morning iulian
<iulian> Hey jpds
<RainCT> morning
<jpds> morning RainCT
<iulian> Hi RainCT.
<volkris> Does anyone know of an example of tarball-in-tarball packaging off the top of their head?
<volkris> I can't find any documentation about how to do it
<directhex> volkris, tarball-in-tarball packaging?
<jpds> volkris: vim.
<volkris> directhex, I have a package where the makefiles are distributed separately from the code, so one has to unpack the makefiles and put the code in the src subdirectory of that tree
<directhex> oh. erk.
<volkris> So I asked about it here yesterday and was advised to go tarball-in-tarball
<volkris> "erk" basically sums up my thoughts every time I'm asked to build this monstrosity :)
<stdin> volkris: I can think of coreutils, glibc and gcc off the top of my head, but I doubt those are "simple" examples
<volkris> Well I see vim has tarballs in its source distribution
<volkris> it's not the simplest example either, but probably mainly because it builds multiple packages
<RainCT> does someone have a Python bug for me? :P
<directhex> gah. stupid debian with their stupid mailing list culture
<tab_shift> the command "dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot" gives error "debian/rules: 3: include: not found" what could be the issue here ?
<StevenK> It starts with "#/bin/sh" rather than "#!/usr/bin/make -f" ?
<tab_shift> StevenK: "#!/usr/bin/make -f" is required ?
<StevenK> Yes
<StevenK> It is required to be the first line in the file
<tab_shift> StevenK: was following this guide https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python
<StevenK> I think the wiki format misses the shebang line
<tab_shift> StevenK: heh, that was it
<tab_shift> StevenK: now it says python: can't open file 'setup.py': [Errno 2] No such file or directory
<StevenK> Then your source package doesn't include a setup.py file?
<tab_shift> StevenK:  but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python does not talk about any setup.py
<tab_shift> StevenK: no, any guides on making one ?
<StevenK> I've corrected the wiki page to show the #!/usr/bin/make -f
<StevenK> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/python-distutils.mk
<StevenK> That assumes python distutils
<tab_shift> StevenK:  python-distutils-extra deb package?
<StevenK> No, it assumes the software you're packaging uses distuils
<tab_shift> StevenK: Err.. i have a few scripts in python that i would like to package and share, hence doing this
<StevenK> tab_shift: Then you aren't using distuils, I'd suggest dropping the -distutils.mk include and using straight debhelper
<tab_shift> StevenK: using debhelper means this command dh_make -c gpl -s -b ?
<StevenK> Don't run dh_make again. And it doesn't.
<StevenK> tab_shift: I'd suggest you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<tab_shift> StevenK: thanks, also i don't have a makefile as well, is it mandatory?
<StevenK> tab_shift: No, you can deal without it
<tab_shift> StevenK: I'll read up & try to figure it out, thanks
<Hew> james_w: New debdiff for bug 257007. Thanks for your help :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257007 in revelation "[Intrepid] crash / error when using revelation-applet" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257007
 * StevenK kicks java
<StevenK> mcasadevall: Here? :-)
<mcasadevall> StevenK, for some definitions of hear
<mcasadevall> *here
<StevenK> mcasadevall: So, I'm trying to update cacao to 0.99.3, and it fails. Mind helping me poke at fixing it?
<mcasadevall> why does it fail?
<StevenK> class file for java.lang.Object not found
<StevenK> And a whole bunch steming from that
<StevenK> Which makes me think the bootclasspath isn't getting set.
<StevenK> Now, setting it to /usr/share/java, /usr/lib or /usr hasn't fixed it
<NCommander> sounds like loads of fun
<StevenK> Indeed
<NCommander> StevenK, it's all yours ;-)
 * NCommander runs
<StevenK> Hmph
<NCommander> StevenK, post your work to a PPA, I'll look at it when I wake up
<NCommander> unless your just trying to compile the straight debian package
<StevenK> Well, actually, 0.99~rc5 from Debian works. 0.99.3 from upstream doesn't
<emgent> heya
<NCommander> StevenK, maybe there is a reason 0.99.3 isn't in sid or experimental
<NCommander> morning emgent
<sebner> ahoi emgent
<sebner> StevenK: did you see my nfdump debdiff?
<NCommander> StevenK, how are you trying to compile it
<NCommander> StevenK, and what are you using for --with-classpath-install-dir
<StevenK> sebner: I did not
<StevenK> NCommander: I think I know what is sort of going on -- they renamed all of the ./configure options for 0.99.3
<sebner> StevenK: ah, I attached a debdiff and thought you will notice it because you are subscribed to the bug
<NCommander> StevenK, that needs to be set to the where classpath is
<NCommander> StevenK, or in other words: http://xkcd.com/293/
 * StevenK beats NCommander to death
<StevenK> NCommander: I've been looking at stuff for an hour before I asked, you know
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> I apologize
<NCommander> I suspect thats the problem however
<NCommander> I'll see if I can just compile the tarball here
<StevenK> I know it was in jest, so shrug :-P
<sebner> NCommander R.I. P
<NCommander> sebner, well, it just happened that StevenK pointed me to that why I was reading xkcd
<sebner> StevenK: will you review it or should I subscribe u-u-s?
<sebner> NCommander: xD xD xD :D
<StevenK> Which bug is it?
<StevenK> I might care
<sebner> StevenK: bug #268811
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268811 in nfdump "nfdump 1.5.7-5 introduces an empty -dbg package, while the main package ships unstripped binaries" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268811
<StevenK> sebner: I'm not subscribed
<sebner> StevenK: argh sry. the other steve xD
<StevenK> Muahaha.
 * StevenK wins
<james_w> Hew: looks good thanks. I'll upload after lunch. Did you warn Jef about the issue?
<sebner> james_w: now you are a hardcore u-u-s guy :D // I'll upload a new debdiff for wordpress later :)
<NCommander> StevenK, what's your configure string
<james_w> sebner: cool, what approach are you going to take?
<Hew> james_w: I emailed him before just before you posted. Now that you've checked the new debdiff I'll send off another mail.
<sebner> james_w: I have to investigate further but I'm wondering since the fix is from (beginning) 2007
<StevenK> NCommander: --with-java-runtime-library-prefix=/usr --disable-disassembler --libdir=/usr/lib/cacao --with-jni_h=/usr/include/classpath --with-jni_md_h=/usr/include/classpath
<james_w> Hew: great, thanks. I haven't downloaded and patched to check thoroughly, but I trust you to tell the difference between a tab and a space :-)
<james_w> sebner: yeah, I'm not sure I agree with the analysis in the other bug report. I would have to read the CVE and the patch again to know whether we should pull it in
<Hew> james_w: Heh, yes. I noticed it before and had a dilemma, whether I should change his patch or leave it for consistency. Tabs are definitely there now :-)
<sebner> james_w: I know and I'll do that :)
<james_w> Hew: it's something you should change as it can cause failures, I just can't tell you under which circumstances.
<sebner> james_w: from a quick look it seems that we really don't need this fix as long as we stick to 2.5.x and not 2.6.x
<Hew> james_w: Ah ok, good to know.
<NCommander> StevenK, it builds fine from source here
<NCommander> are you build-deping on classpath-common
<sebner> james_w: at least we merged the debian version which has the fix  ^^
<sebner> james_w: /me is confused. I merged the actual version from Debian and Debian *has* this fix included so we get it as well when we merge it
<StevenK> NCommander: Yes
<StevenK> NCommander: It builds, so I'm good
<james_w> Hew: uploaded, thanks.
<Hew> james_w: excellent, thank you :-)
<orly_owl> ping
<smartboyathome> I'm having trouble using pbuilder. I am backporting packages using it (I am on Intrepid, and am trying to build some packages for hardy), but I can't get one package to build because it depends on the others. I tried the method in PbuilderHowto on the wiki for setting up a local repository for pbuilder and using it with pbuilder, but pbuilder still doesn't use it and complains about the packages missing.
<LaserJock> anybody have actual working flashplugin-nonfree in intrepid?
<jussi01> LaserJock: me
<LaserJock> jussi01: it doesn't take 100% CPU?
<jussi01> LaserJock: I havent looked exactly, but other programs are running fine with it... I can take a look if you like
<LaserJock> well, I was getting pegged CPU and flickering with 64-bit Intrepid
<LaserJock> so I reinstalled with 32-bit and still the same thing
<jussi01> LaserJock: nope, its fine here on 32bit
<LaserJock> so I'm assuming it's not specific to my particular install
<LaserJock> I suppose it could be hardware related...
<jussi01> LaserJock: Im using it in firefox on kubuntu if that helps
<LaserJock> I'm using FF on Ubuntu
<jussi01> ok, so looks like either ubuntu or your machine specific
<LaserJock> flashplugin-nonfree might also be a good target for a Hug Day
<LaserJock> 174 open bugs and 90 in New status
<mcquaid> heh i jsut came to ask about the flashplugin backport.  it says it's 10 but it's really still 9
<mcquaid> why is that?
<superm1> LaserJock, mine was acting similarly because my pulseaudio got messed up again
<superm1> on 32 bit
<superm1> it seems to be having lots of troubles, but i've not looked into it yet
<LaserJock> superm1: what's "messed up"?
<superm1> only works after i kill the daemon, rm ~/.pulse* and then restart the daemon
<superm1> and then only works for a limited undetermined period of time
<LaserJock> mcquaid: how do you know that it's 9?
<mcquaid> about:plugins
<LaserJock> mcquaid: and what does dpkg -l | grep flashplugin-nonfree give you for the version?
<mcquaid> 10.0.1.218+10.0.0.525ubuntu1~hardy1+really9.0.124.0ubuntu2 Adobe Flash Player plugin installer
<LaserJock> heh
<mcquaid> heh, ya it's in the file name. what's that all about +really9.0.124 wtf?
<mcquaid> how about 'really' package 10 and i dunno call it 10
<LaserJock> so my guess is that we had to revert back to 9
<mcquaid> ah
<LaserJock> mcquaid: it's not exactly that easy
<mcquaid> i understand.  i just wanted beta 10, i've never had a problem installing flash manually but can't get it working for some reason
<mcquaid> and i saw there was a backport, i thought ah cool, but then it's really 9, so I'm back where i started
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> Flash 10 *was* uploaded to -backports
<LaserJock> but then was reverted to 9
<mcquaid> do you know the reason for reverting back?
<mcquaid> just curious
<sebner> mcquaid: it was crap on hardy
<mcquaid> too bad. read a lot of surprisingly good comments on 10.  like fullscreen finally using vid overlay properly
<mcquaid> that's all i wanted
<mcquaid> damn i hate flash
<sebner> mcquaid: well 26 days to go ;)
<mcquaid> so flash 10 is fine in intreped?
<mcquaid> intrepid
<sebner> mcquaid: well, we have the beta and it's half crappy. maybe the rc or final will be better
<mcquaid> heh. well one can hope
<mcquaid> 'flash 10! now with less crap!!"
<orly_owl> ha
<sebner> mcquaid: flash 10 will be a lot better than flash 9. but dunno if still crappy or not  ^^
<orly_owl> give swfdec or gnash a go
<mcquaid> how is swfdec or gnash in regards to vid playback? fullscreen? overlay?
<sebner> orly_owl: I tried it and it wasn't that usable for me
<orly_owl> did you compile latest trunk?
<orly_owl> mcquaid: dunno. try it and find out
<orly_owl> #gnash and #swfdec btw
<LaserJock> flash 10 in Intrepid for me sucks because it's taking 100% CPU and flickers
<mcquaid> LaserJock, sigh same old story eh. how hard can it be to use xv?
<mcquaid> LaserJock, is that with video or do you mean other types of flash, like a game or funky menu's etc
<LaserJock> any flash
<mcquaid> well that sucks to hear
<LaserJock> I think anyway
<hedkandi> hello
<hedkandi> folks I have a package I could put into the repositories
<hedkandi> anyone want to advise?
<hedkandi> I think it should go in the multiverse
<hedkandi> everyone in bed?
<LaserJock> hedkandi: well, would it depend on anything in multiverse and what's the license?
<hedkandi> ok
<hedkandi> it depends on two lgpl things
<hedkandi> the licence is pretty much gpl except
<hedkandi> for a clause which says that modifications may not be distributed
<ScottK-laptop> That's enough that it has to go in multiverse
<hedkandi> does it?
<hedkandi> I wasn't actually sure from reading
<hedkandi> the ubuntu pages (which are confused and badly written)
<hedkandi> I actually think some clarification would be good, as to what restricted is about
<orly_owl> when's the next LTS out?
<directhex> 2010
<hedkandi> but anyway, I think I'll be happy with the multiverse
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.  Since any modified package would be undistributable, it's not Free software.
<orly_owl> april 2010?
<ScottK-laptop> That's the schedule.
<directhex> ish, yes
<orly_owl> ok
<orly_owl> is 8.04 going to stop at 8.04.4?
<LaserJock> hedkandi: is your question Multiverse vs Restricted or Multiverse vs Universe?
<hedkandi> ScottK: well I disagree with your assumption that free means you can distribute modified versions
<ScottK-laptop> hedkandi: It's not mine.  It's Debian's and Ubuntu's, but I agree with it.
<directhex> hedkandi, yu can disagree, but you're wrong
<directhex> hedkandi, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms
<hedkandi> i'm usually right 'cos I'm very clever.
<directhex> wait, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Free_Software_Definition
<hedkandi> LaserJock: restricted I think.
<directhex> freedom 3, "# improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3)"
<LaserJock> hedkandi: ah, well that I can kinda see where there could be some confusion
<LaserJock> hedkandi: but Restricted is really only used for a few special packages
<LaserJock> so basically assume you're not going to get anything into Restricted directly
<loveball> is this the place for recommendations?
<directhex> resticted is for non-free apps supported by canonical, which basically means nvidia drivers. why do canonical want to offer support for your package? is it that critical?
<hedkandi> LaserJock: ok
<LaserJock> directhex: I don't think that's even quite true
<hedkandi> but I'd be okay in the Multiverse then?
<LaserJock> Restricted is primarily for drivers and non-free "blobs"
<hedkandi> So how would I get my package into the multiverse?
<LaserJock> not just any non-free software, generally speaking
<directhex> but even things in multiverse/restricted need to be distributable
<hedkandi> my program is distributable.
<LaserJock> hedkandi: same way you would to get it into Universe
<loveball> i would like for code::blocks to move into universe, is there a guide for these things?
<hedkandi> LaserJock: call me ignorant, but could you just remind me of the process please?
<LaserJock> hedkandi: package it, put it on REVU, get 2 MOTU +1 votes
<LaserJock> !REVU
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<loveball> LaserJock: thanx
<hedkandi> good thanks. I didn't know about revu.
<ScottK-laptop> And it's way too late for Intrepid.
<LaserJock> right
<hedkandi> point of general discussion: I think it's bad that other people can wreck my software and distribute it as
<hedkandi> if they've "improved" (haha) it.
<hedkandi> The fact is that there are a lot of incompetent programmers and designers hanging around ubuntu
<hedkandi> and I don't want them playing with my program and introducing bugs and inconsistencies.
<LaserJock> fine, then don't put it in Ubuntu
<hedkandi> I think this is entirely sensible,and the motu would do well to accept that.
<LaserJock> accept what?
<hedkandi> Ie if the people running ubuntu were a little smarter, they would allow software under my licence into ubuntu main.
<hedkandi> I think the motu are being a bit anal in refusing my licence.
<loveball> hedkandi, what is your license?
<LaserJock> hedkandi: well, sorry, but we have established principles
<hedkandi> my licence says modified versions may not be distributed
<LaserJock> and one of them is that we are free to modify
<hedkandi> indeed and that's different
<jcastro> there's no point to having an oss license if you can't redistribute it
<hedkandi> no
<jcastro> that's like, a fundamental right
<loveball> hedkandi: so, you want something that aint free mislabeled and supported by canonical?
<hedkandi> my licence comes under the "free" banner.
<LaserJock> well, by any definition of Free software I've seen, it doesn't
<loveball> i aint free to change it and redistrobute it, which is one of "three freedoms"
<ScottK-laptop> hedkandi: One thing that is supported is a license condition that if you change it you have to rename it.
<hedkandi> if gpl'd software was "free" I'd be able to modify it, and then sell it. So I think your definition of free is contrived
<loveball> hedkandi: aint you?
<hedkandi> ScottK: tell me more??
<ScottK-laptop> That way modifcations can be distributed, but the 'name' of your package doesn't get 'tainted'.
<hedkandi> There is an interesting distinction to be made, actually, between a 'modification' and a 'modified version'
<LaserJock> or better yet, you could work with Ubuntu to make sure the modifications are "good"
<directhex> step 1: introduce a debian/ folder
<directhex> step 2: IT'S MODIFIED, GAME OVER!
<ScottK-laptop> hedkandi: See DFSG #4 http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
<hedkandi> LaserJock: indeed, but ultimately that decision should be made by me.
<ScottK-laptop> hedkandi: That's exactly why it's not Free software.  You are retaining control over it.
<hedkandi> I'm allowing modifications, so I'm not.
<directhex> you're not allowing modifications. you're providing a read-only copy of the source
<hedkandi> wake up folks
<directhex> and conveniently ignoring that you can't make a package without introducing "changes" in the form of the debian/ package structure
<hedkandi> I'm allowing modifications, but I'm forbidding their distribution.
<directhex> hedkandi, you know this has been covered more than once in debian's history, right? there's precedent?
<directhex> hedkandi, you're talking about the PINE license.
<hedkandi> no, actually.
<directhex> well, the old version
<hedkandi> sorry I'm ignorant of the pine licence
<ScottK-laptop> hedkandi: Ubuntu is a distribution, so you're forbidding Ubuntu from having any changes.
<hedkandi> I guess so, yep.
<LaserJock> that means technically we can't even package it
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_(e-mail_client)#Licensing_and_clones
<hedkandi> LaserJock: why is that please?
<ScottK-laptop> LaserJock: Typically debian packaging isn't considered a modification.
<directhex> hedkandi, how do you package it if we can't insert any files into it with packaging metadata?
<LaserJock> ScottK-laptop: *any* patch would be
<ScottK-laptop> Yes, but this is common in multiverse.
<ScottK-laptop> So it'd either work unmodified or not, but we couldn't fix it.
<hedkandi> well can I make the package myself?
<LaserJock> ScottK-laptop: he was talking about it should  be allowed in Main though
<ScottK-laptop> Yes, but it can only go in the Multiverse repo.
<ScottK-laptop> Right, it clearly can't.
<directhex> hedkandi, YOU WIN THE PRIZE! http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/images/trophy.png
<jcastro> best image of all time
<hedkandi> ok wait a mo.
<LaserJock> ScottK-laptop: even in Multiverse though, we have no way of enforcing that license really
<LaserJock> ScottK-laptop: what prevents a MOTU from uploading a patch, we can't expect people to look at every license before they upload just to see if they are allowed to do so
<ScottK-laptop> If it's in Multiverse, they really need to.
<ScottK-laptop> Which is why many motu just ignore multiverse.
<LaserJock> I'm not entirely sure
<ScottK-laptop> If it's distributable, it can go in multiverse.  That's the rule.
<LaserJock> no, it's not exactly
<LaserJock> there isn't any hard rules for Multiverse
<ScottK-laptop> No?
<LaserJock> we know that it *has* to be distributable, but that's not necessarily the only restriction, the Archive admins could reject for other reasons if the wish to
<directhex> if you *really* want to prevent standard procedure - e.g. fixups for linking locations etc - then go down the j0000rg route. either permit distribution but retain copyright over the name (like iceweasel in debian) or the cdrecord route for spewing lots of "you're an evil hippie, you should be using solaris" every time an 'unapproved' build is used
<LaserJock> ScottK-laptop: obviously when there is no source we can't modify it, but if it's got source I expect that Ubuntu should be able to modify it
<hedkandi> well I just read about pine. thanks to directhex
<LaserJock> we've had cases were *only* Ubuntu can modify it
<directhex> LaserJock, firefox?
<LaserJock> firefox is tighter than that, but kinda yeah
<hedkandi> I don't understand the trophy I'm afraid.
<LaserJock> that wasn't an example I was thinking
<directhex> hedkandi, joerg schilling claims to be a free software advocate, but is abbrasive, refuses to accept patches or fixes, and releases undistributable code. in the end most linux distros dropped his software in favour of better-licensed solutions
<directhex> hedkandi, ooh, remember xfree86? how many people use xfree86 these days?
<LaserJock> well, basically
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xfree86#2004:_Licensing_controversy
<LaserJock> you're free to do what you want with your code
<LaserJock> it would probably make it ok into Multiverse
<LaserJock> but if you're not going to allow us to modify it I'd personally rather you not put it in Ubuntu at all
<LaserJock> just give out .debs on the project site or something
<directhex> i'm unconvinced it's acceptable for multiverse, and i don;t think anyone would touch it within debian or ubuntu
<LaserJock> well, it'd probably be no worse than a lot of Multiverse
<LaserJock> but my guess is that we'd end up violating the license inadvertently and hedkandi would get mad
<hedkandi> joerg schilling
<hedkandi> I'm surprised that more people don't take this stance however. Is it unusual?
<directhex> LaserJock, there's also the ion3 issues within debian caused by the same attitudes as j00rg
<LaserJock> directhex: sure
<hedkandi> I don't remember xfree86 I'm afraid.
<directhex> hedkandi, it's no an unusal stance, no. and it's an acceptable one. but saying black is white annoys people. if i can make your app 10x better but it's illegal for me to give LaserJock those improvements, then that's not free software
<directhex> it's closed software with a NDA'd copy of the source
<ScottK-laptop> directhex: We have binary only stuff in multiverse, so this is definitely within the scope of what's allowed.
<LaserJock> except I consider the binary stuff as being better since there's no chance of modification
<hedkandi> what's closed software with nda? the stuff in multiverse?
<directhex> hedkandi, some of it, yes
<LaserJock> if you're not gonna let me make the modifications, then don't give me the source
<directhex> hedkandi, actually, i think cdrecord reappeared in multiverse. it's right up your street
<hedkandi> ?
<directhex> hedkandi, what's the difference between a closed source app, and an open source app i can't improve?
<hedkandi> directhex: you can modify my swe, but you can't pass that on.
<LaserJock> hedkandi: but "passing it on" is *what* we do
<hedkandi> as I've said, I don't mind people modifying it for their own use.
<hedkandi> i see. well well.
<hedkandi> The discussion should now turn to the difference
<hedkandi> between a modification and a modified version.
<hedkandi> I don't mind people distributing diff files  and patches for my swe
<ScottK-laptop> Then allow that in your license.
<ScottK-laptop> That would make it allowable for Universe/Main.
<LaserJock> mhm
<hedkandi> well is a patch considered a derived work?
<LaserJock> when the patch is applied I'd think so
<hedkandi> I didn't think that it was legally possible for me to say anything about patches
<ScottK-laptop> That's one of the conditions mentioned in DFSG #4.
<hedkandi> When you apply a patch, you create a derived work, but you aren't distributing a derived work.
<directhex> actually, i know this license
<directhex> not just PINE. there's a closer parallel
<hedkandi> can someone just tell me quickly what debian is all about please? is it like gnu? I'll go read.
<ScottK-laptop> Right, but once I upload it to Ubuntu, then I am distributing it.
<directhex> Microsoft Reference Source License (Ms-RSL)
<ScottK-laptop> Debian is the distro that Ubuntu is derived from.
<ScottK-laptop> We get most of our packages and our policy from them.
<LaserJock> ScottK-laptop: link to DFSG?
<ScottK-laptop> http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
<hedkandi> What,exactly is the difference between debian and ubuntu?
<hedkandi> and can I run debian linux on my pc?
<ScottK-laptop> Ubuntu is a derivative of Debian.
<directhex> hedkandi, debian is a distro. ubuntu is a distro. ubuntu is based on debian. this is possible because debian is Free software, and all the packages in it can be redistributed
<directhex> hedkandi, okay, here's the laundry list of problems, there may be more.
<directhex> hedkandi, 1) a security problem is found in your app. we can't fix it because that's a patch and is TEH BANNED
<directhex> hedkandi, 2) a new lib which your app depends on has an altered API. we can't fix it because that's a patch and is TEH BANNED
<ScottK-laptop> directhex: When was the last time you saw a security fix in multiverse?
<directhex> ScottK-laptop, well, indeed. multiverse is a security hole
<ScottK-laptop> So if he wants to be in multiverse it's fine.
<LaserJock> ScottK-laptop: that we don't often see them is not exactly the same as saying that can't happen though
<ScottK-laptop> True, it's just that generally we can't fix stuff there and so it just sits.
<directhex> or dies
<directhex> non-free stuff that isn't considered "vital" (like nvidia, no flame wars please) dies, or at least atrophies badly
<directhex> hedkandi, 3) a user files a bug report. we can't fix that bug.
<hedkandi> directhex: wrong about (2)
<hedkandi> the lgpl requires that you can update the linked library
<hedkandi> for this purpose, I provide source code for mine
<hedkandi> The "security problem" is another way of saying "we think there's a bug"
<hedkandi> And then I'm afraid it my opinion of what is a bug that matters.
<hedkandi> oh no wait (2)
<directhex> hedkandi, part of what this ties into is the concept of stable releases. if you release version 2 of your app, which fixes bugs in version 1, that isn't good enough - a stable release is expected by users to not suffer sudden unexpected changes, so versions are not changed in stable releases - problems (and ONLY the problems) are patched, but the version remains
<hedkandi> directhex: ok so a "stable release" is a released branch
<hedkandi> directhex: this thing about "stable rElease" does destroy your point (2) however
<hedkandi> as in a stable release of an api, only the bugs will be fixed and the api won't change.
<directhex> ask ncommander about the ada 4.2 transition
<hedkandi> Can I Mention something I just found on the debian site please?
<hedkandi> http://www.debian.org/intro/free
<hedkandi> this page references the artistic licence
<hedkandi> and it is called "free" at debian
<directhex> just take it up with debian-legal
<directhex> you obviously aren't interested with anything said here
<hedkandi> ?
<directhex> but, short answer, your app WILL NOT be considered free software, for inclusion into debian main, or ubuntu main/universe. and nobody within MOTU will give a rat's arse about your package if it's in non-free or multiverse (you'll need to take on that burden yourself)
<directhex> you're probably better off just packaging it yourself
<hedkandi> Anyway, if you look at the artistic licence 2.0
<directhex> and keeping it on your own site
<hedkandi> it distinguishes between standard and modified versions
<hedkandi> and there are restrictions on distributing the modified versions
<hedkandi> ok well I can package it myself I think!
<CarlFK> is there a public repo for the files found in a package's debian dir?
<CarlFK> like if I want to get qemu's, but don't want the whole qemu source too
<ScottK-laptop> hedkandi: Yes, those are very close to the types of restrictions allowed under DFSG #4.
<hedkandi> I rather like the artistic licence 2.0
<hedkandi> so tell me, can we compromise. If I use al2.0 can I have my swe in main?
<CarlFK> mainly so I can ask a questions about it: how do I get it to do ï»¿./configure --target-list=x86_64-softmmu
<ScottK-laptop> Artistic 2.0 is DFSG free, so it would be OK for Universe.  To get in Main, Canonical has to want to support it.
<slytherin> what are usually parameters considered while granting freeze exception?
<LaserJock> CarlFK: well, you could get just the .diff.gz?
<ScottK-laptop> slytherin: It's generally a question of risk versus potential benifit.
<ScottK-laptop> It's not an exact science.
<siretart> CarlFK: some packages are maintained that way. but not all.
<hedkandi> yes I did say AL was dfsg free, and directhex blew a fuse.
<slytherin> ScottK-laptop: Ok. I am considering applying for exception for gnomeradio. Let's see what happens.
<directhex> AL is. AL2 is not.
<ScottK-laptop> directhex: Why not?
<directhex> and as per the authors, AL is for use only when dual-licensed with something better
<directhex> ScottK-laptop, non-modification terms. check which license is in your /usr/share/doc/common-licenses/
<ScottK-laptop> I know which is there.
<ScottK-laptop> I don't see anything in those restrictions that violates DFSG.
<ScottK-laptop> They are distasteful, but pass DFSG #4 as I read it.
<directhex> "You are permitted to use the Standard Version and create and use Modified Versions for any purpose without restriction, provided that you do not Distribute the Modified Version."
<CarlFK> ok - was hoping there was something similar to ï»¿apt-get source qemu
<directhex> is the term from AL2. and not in DFSG-free AL1
<ScottK-laptop> directhex: There is also the section "Distribution of Modified Versions of the Package as Source" that I think makes it OK.
<directhex> at any rate, WHAT IS IT WITH PEOPLE WHO INSIST THEIR NON-FREE APP MUST GO INTO MAIN?
<directhex> seriously, it just gets tiresome
<directhex> if your app is non-free, then just say it's non-free and go within the little pen set aside for that
<hedkandi> well as you said, no-one will give a rat's if it's in multiverse
<slytherin> what is with people who insist that their application go into main :-P
<LaserJock> directhex: no need to shout :-)
<hedkandi> I think al2.0 is free
<hedkandi> LaserJock:
<hedkandi> LaserJ: can I get al2.0 into main?
 * directhex wants wolfenstein: enemy territory in main :'(
<ScottK-laptop> hedkandi: Has to be in Universe to even be considered for Main.
<slytherin> hedkandi: I wouldn't say that about multiverse. Far more people use Sun JDK even though it is in multiverse.
<ScottK-laptop> Gotta run.
<hedkandi> ok well for the time being I'll aim for the multiverse then.
<hedkandi> I'm gonna have to go soon folks...
<slytherin> directhex: grow up buddy, play wesnoth. :-D
<LaserJock> hedkandi: I don't know specifically about al2.0
<hedkandi> ok
 * siretart finds 'joerg schilling' in the backlog...
<hedkandi> not to worry.
<LaserJock> but it does need to be in Universe before it can go into Main
<hedkandi> okay then. That's fine.
<hedkandi> I'll get my package sorted out and "wing it" later on.
<LaserJock> sounds good
<hedkandi> thanks for all the advice folks. Doubtless I'll be back sometime
<directhex> is main a status symbol?
<CarlFK> directhex: I am sure it is to some
<LaserJock> hmm, I wouldn't exactly call it that
<directhex> frankly my life would be easier if i could get sponsorship from u-u-s instead of u-m-s
<directhex> but there's main, and there's main in the default install
<LaserJock> for me it's always been a core subset of Free software that Ubuntu chooses to support more extensively
<LaserJock> software in Main goes through security audits and generally seeks active upstreams
<directhex> on a related note, where's my pet debian developer
<LaserJock> directhex: why would it make your life easier?
<LaserJock> is u-m-s not very responsive?
<directhex> it's smaller, so tracking down a main sponsor who has the time to do my packages (and agrees to do them) is tricky sometimes
<directhex> took me weeks to get something as bloody trivial as a documentation package sponsored
<LaserJock> well, there are things to be improved for sure
<LaserJock> recently Canonical has started having all their Core Devs doing 1hr/week in the sponsorship queue
<LaserJock> I think more particularly though
<LaserJock> Main tends to be more maintainer focused, Debian-style
<LaserJock> so if a Main package doesn't have a designated maintainer it can pretty easily fall through the cracks
<LaserJock> there are a few Main packages that are not as well maintained as most Universe apps
<directhex> or that maintainer is overly busy. or on holiday. or busy learning to cook
<LaserJock> I'd like to see my QA work in identifying those packages and getting people to help make sure the cracks  close up
<LaserJock> s/my/more/
<directhex> LaserJock, i did a fair bit of the work on mono for intrepid, which is in main. if there's anything which can make a core dev really really far too busy all of a sudden, it's packages with "mono" in the name#
 * sebner laughs :)
<slytherin> Any MOTU free enough to sponsor the fix to resindvd plugin I backported from upstream CVS?
<LaserJock> directhex: mono-develop?
<directhex> LaserJock, that one hasn't been touched for a while since there hasn't been a stable release for a while, and we in the pkg-mono team don't want to offer support for a package marked "alpha" by upstream
<LaserJock> I just don't like sponsoring things I don't know much about, especially in Main
<LaserJock> it's not that I dislike the software itself, I just don't like blindly uploading things
<directhex> LaserJock, well, i kinda understand that attitude, but i think there's a difference between random apps, and stuff actively team maintained in alioth by debian & ubuntu people alike
<directhex> i mean, if canonical want to PAY me to do it, then fine :p
<LaserJock> why don't the Ubuntu people sponsor it then?
<LaserJock> the Ubuntu people in the team that is
<directhex> ahh, that's the last of my angostura gone. now i can start on the PROPER stuff
<directhex> LaserJock, we only have one core dev, and he's rather busy at the best of times with the other teams he's in
<LaserJock> who?
<directhex> slomo
<directhex> oh, and he's mostly debian these days anyway
<LaserJock> ah yeah
<sebner> directhex: at least MD trunk is pretty stable :P and I touched it in past :)
<directhex> sebner, i know it's a bit unstable right now. i know. but offering years of stable release support to a random svn checkout of a large IDE?
<directhex> bleh :/
<LaserJock> I'm not a huge fan of mono right now, so many good apps that eat all my memory :-)
<directhex> LaserJock, better than java on that front. and it should improve a fair bit in jaunty, with mono 2
<LaserJock> yeah? that'd be cool
<sebner> directhex: was just a joke :)
<LaserJock> I love gnome-do, Tasque, and Tomboy, but they eat up so much RAM
<directhex> LaserJock, oh, and ~20 meg of space on the install cd saved too
<sebner> hmm /me only uses MD
<directhex> LaserJock, it's mostly shared pages though
<sebner> LaserJock: you also don't like banshee?
<LaserJock> sebner: I dont' know, never really tried it
<directhex> i like banshee, but i think it needs some more work before i put a proposal to the desktop team about looking at it versus rhythmbox
<LaserJock> directhex: right, but those apps are only actively used occasionally and take up 1/3 of my in use RAM
<sebner> LaserJock: more ram! yesterday I built a new Pc for my parents with 4gb ram :P
<directhex> sebner, 4 is the right umber for a new pc these days, certainly with windows on it
<sebner> directhex: ubuntu 8.10 on it :P
<directhex> LaserJock, how much ram do you have?
<LaserJock> 2GB
<directhex> that seems a VERY large number
<LaserJock> tomboy+tasque+gnome-do run ~100-150 MB
<LaserJock> for me
<LaserJock> that was on 64-bit
<directhex> you're sure that's taking shared pages into account?
<LaserJock> I believe so
<sebner> f-spot is also pretty strange O_o
<directhex> f-spot is the bane of my life
<directhex> gnome-system-monitor shows 16.5M for tomboy, which i think is fair enough
<LaserJock> now I'm running 32-bit so it's roughly half the usage
<LaserJock> on 64-bit I would just get into gnome and maybe fire up FF and I was already at 1GB used
<sebner> LaserJock: O_o
<LaserJock> now it's more like 500MB
<directhex> well this xchat window is showing more than twice the RAM use of tomboy
<directhex> so i don't think blaming mono is entirely fair
 * sebner has now 565mb ram for a normal pc use
<LaserJock> for me Firefox is the only app that uses more than the mono apps
<sebner> LaserJock: how much?
<LaserJock> sebner: how much what?
<sebner> LaserJock: firefox takes ram for you
<LaserJock> ~ 100MB at startup
<directhex> firefox is a hungry beast
<directhex> i'm showing 25 meg with 1 tab... LaserJock, how exactly are you measuring your ram use?
<sebner> at lot better than version2
<LaserJock> so far the difference between 64-bit and 32-bit is pretty significant
<LaserJock> directhex: gnome-system-monitor at the moment
<sebner> ff 3.1 does only take 135mb (while watching youtube)
<LaserJock> but I also use top
<directhex> oh, whoops, i forgot, this isn't ubuntu firefox, it's 32-bit from tarball
<directhex> 38 for hardy firefox with 1 tab
<LaserJock> in 64-bit intrepid  each of Tasque, gnome-do, and Tomboy took about ~40MB each
<directhex> on intrepid? really seems a lot to me?
<LaserJock> which would be OK, IMO, if they were doing a lot of work or something
<LaserJock> but they're little convenience apps
<directhex> banshee clocks in at 45 meg to me
<directhex> 25 for f-spot
<directhex> 48 for monodevelop
<directhex> those are chunky apps though, and i'm positive g-s-m doesn't tell you if 2 processes are sharing the same chunk of memory
<LaserJock> right now on 32bit intrepid I'm getting 17MB+15MB+15MB for the 3
<LaserJock> so 32-bit makes a hug difference
<LaserJock> *huge
<directhex> well, yes, it does. but not as big a jump as you suggest IME
<LaserJock> but they're still more than most other apps
<LaserJock> well, I all I can report is the numbers I got :-)
<directhex> how does pidgin weigh in?
<directhex> for me, on 64-bit, it shows as marginally heavier than tomboy
<LaserJock> right now it's heavy at 36MB
<LaserJock> Pidgin is #3 for me right behind FF and Xorg
<directhex> anyway, isn't evolution our default mail client?
<directhex> i mean really, you could load every mono app in ubuntu and still use less ram than evo
<directhex> ;)
<LaserJock> on 64 bit the mono apps were using a lot more than Pidgin
<LaserJock> I don't use evolution
<directhex> not for me! really!
<directhex> directhex@mortos:~$ dpkg-architecture | grep DEB_BUILD_ARCH=
<directhex> DEB_BUILD_ARCH=amd64
<LaserJock> like I said, right behind FF and Xorg would be gnome-do, tomboy, and Tasque
<LaserJock> and I'd have 900MB-1GB of used RAM
<LaserJock> for 32-bit I'm running 500-600MB
<LaserJock> so the mono apps seemed like the obvious target
<directhex> well, python is ubuntu's language of choice, and looking at http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=csharp&lang2=python ...
<LaserJock> right, python apps do much better for me
<LaserJock> I was thinking of trying to port Tasque to python, but it's a bit beyond the amount of time I've got
<LaserJock> though Ruby 1.9 looks really quite fast
<LaserJock> I wonder what it's memory usage is like
<directhex> ironpython! worst of both worlds!
<directhex> python's crummy syntax, plus mono's system requirements!
<LaserJock> lol
<directhex> and, for extra measure, (c) microsoft
<directhex> :)
<sebner> PATENZZ
<sebner> directhex: ;)
<LaserJock> well, I don't care much, I just don't have time to learn another language
<directhex> directhex@mortos:~$ grep Copyright /usr/share/doc/ironpython/copyright | head -1Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation.
<LaserJock> I'm not a programmer, nor will I probably ever be
<LaserJock> *professional programmer, I suppose
<LaserJock> so for now i stick to Fortran, C, and as much Python as I can get away with
<directhex> all the cool kids use fortran
<LaserJock> heck yeah
<directhex> too muxh time spent supporting people who live on mpif77 :/
<LaserJock> I so hate fortran
<jussi01> LaserJock: just FYI wrt flashplugin-nonfree - mine works fine for youtube, but on cnn videos basically freezes up.
<LaserJock> but whatever, that's what my code is written in so ..
<LaserJock> and it doesn't work with gfortran
<directhex> LaserJock, are you a u-m-s then?
<LaserJock> so I got to *forward-port* gcc 3.4
<LaserJock> directhex: I'm a Core Dev
<LaserJock> I don't think I'm currently in the u-m-s team since I'm trying to finish my dissertation
<directhex> LaserJock, if i need something mono-related sponsored, can i add you to my list of friendly people to talk to? i don't want to abuse pitti's good graces
<LaserJock> hmm, good question
<sebner> LaserJock: ah core-dev! :D mind sponsoring a merge? It seems they forgot about me
<LaserJock> what's the package?
<sebner> LaserJock: tuxtype, bug #261991
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261991 in tuxtype "Merge tuxtype 1.5.17.dfsg1-3 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261991
<LaserJock> sebner: oh, right, is that still not done?
<sebner> LaserJock: *nope*, otherwise I wouldn't ask :)
<LaserJock> sebner: that was somewhat of a rhetorical question ;-)
<sebner> LaserJock: ah ^^, mind sponsoring it?
<LaserJock> well, it's not easy
<LaserJock> I emailed the Debian maintainer a while back about it
<LaserJock> sebner: I had a couple issues with your debdiff
<sebner> LaserJock: yes? O_o
<LaserJock> sebner: did you check the .desktop file for validity?
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure the original Categories= was fine
<LaserJock> it at least shouldn't have Applications
<LaserJock> not sure about GNOME
<iulian> Hey guys, I'm trying to find an archive administrator to have a look at bug 274276 and hopefully sync it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274276 in salasaga "Please sync salasaga 0.8.0~alpha4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274276
<LaserJock> sebner: also you say you merge greek and malayalam but there's also diff to svenska
<slytherin> iulian: archive admins are usually found in #ubuntu-devel
<sebner> LaserJock: this maybe was autogenerated. I'll recheck.. also the .desktop file
<iulian> slytherin: I said this few hours ago in -devel too and it seemed that no one answered.
<LaserJock> iulian: right, but the bug report is just fine
<slytherin> iulian: they must be busy. besides it is weekend. :-)
<LaserJock> the archive admins are subscribed and the sync is acked
<LaserJock> so they'll get to it when they can
<iulian> LaserJock: Well, slangasek told me a couple of days ago that some of the bugs are not going to be closed, IIRC. This is the reason why I'm worrying about.
<slangasek> I don't think I said they won't be
<directhex> note to self: never "just" finish the bottle
<slangasek> I probably declined to commit to getting them closed before release
 * directhex is happy with the shape of his little slice of ubuntu
<iulian> slangasek: Ahh, I misunderstood then, sorry.
<sebner> directhex: hmm?
<geser> zul: Hi, have you some time to sponsor bug #264554 or should I try to find an other core-dev?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 264554 in xen-3.3 "libxen3 and libxen3-dev both include /usr/lib/libblktap.so" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264554
<sebner> ahoi geser \o/
<geser> Hi sebner
<directhex> sebner, which bit? the "monodoc merge happened so mono in intrepid is a complete, well-formed 1.9.1 stack" or the "just because you want to finish the angostura to move onto the santiago, never drink rum from a pint glass" bit?
<sebner> directhex: ah, I understand :D
<directhex> sebner, WHICH BIT? >_<
<sebner> directhex: both, of course ;)
<directhex> sebner, :o :D 8D
<sebner> directhex: But I still don't know why I had monodoc 1.9.1-1.deb installed xD
<directhex> sebner, you use monodoc. perhaps you installed the debian deb, for better more recent docs?
<directhex> monodevelop, sorry
<sebner> directhex: maybe, but I already told you that I *really* can't remember. I think I changed from ubuntu 1.0 to trunk :\
<nealmcb> I recall that it is possible to upload stuff in a way that automatically gets launchpad to mark associated bugs as "fix-committed" (via the changelog comments?  bzr --fixed?) but I can't find a way that works - am I wrong?
<geser> I don't know about fix committed bug for "fix released" there is a way
<slytherin> nealmcb: You need an entry in the changelog of the form LP: #xxxxxx. But please note that this marks the bug fix released.
<nealmcb> slytherin: thanks - is that only for ubuntu?  or can I set it up so launchpad does that for an independent software project?
<NCommander> nealmcb, thats only for ubuntu, for bazaar, you can use --fixes when commiting to do pretty much the same thing
<slytherin> nealmcb: I am not sure how it would work for other projects.
<nealmcb> I tried that with bzr and it didn't work, and the folks in #launchpad seemed unsure.  hmmm
<slytherin> geser: do you have time to sponsor a debdiff for gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad?
<nxvl> nealmcb: i think if you 'bzr commit -m "foo (LP: #XXXXX)"' it works
<nxvl> nealmcb: oe if you use ppa's it certainly does
<nxvl> s/oe/or
<nxvl> Ng: around?
<NCommander> nxvl, if you upload to a project PPA with (LP: #XXXXX) in the changelog, it works on assiocated bugs?
<nxvl> NCommander: AFAIK yes
<NCommander> neat feature
<nxvl> NCommander: the LP bug number is not ubuntu specific
<nxvl> so if on a project you have #123456, you can be sure that is not in ubuntu or another project
<NCommander> nxvl, that I know, but I thought the changelog LP: feature was only good for non-PPA packages
<NCommander> i.e., that never works backports, we have to manually close bugs there
<nxvl> NCommander: well, for example with terminator, Ng releases it using the ppa, and has some bugs related to packaging that needs to be fixed
<nealmcb> nxvl: hmm - what status does it end up with in a ppa - fix-committed?
<nxvl> NCommander: and those are terminator specific
<nxvl> nealmcb: released, just as with ubuntu
<nxvl> i can be wrong, but i'm almost sure it works that way
<nxvl> NCommander: but i don't think it can close bugs reported against ubuntu using a ppa
 * NCommander feels like doing some packaging work
<NCommander> when a bug has multiple tasks, a package uploaded only closes against that task
<nxvl> yes
<nxvl> ...i ... think
<nealmcb> nxvl: hmm - but a ppa isn't an official ubuntu repository, as described at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status - right?
<nxvl> right
<nxvl> nealmcb: i'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish, but you can't change a bug reported against ubuntu using a PPA IIUC
<nxvl> nealmcb: you can manage project bugs using project's ppa
<radix> how does it figure out which task to close based on the PPA? there's no linkage between a project an a PPA as far as I'm aware
<nealmcb> nxvl: ahh - good - so do you know what needs to be set up for that to happen for a project?
<nealmcb> or where it is documented....
<nxvl> nealmcb: not actually sure
<nxvl> nealmcb: Ng made it, and i just use it
<nxvl> :D
<Ng> nxvl: ish
<nxvl> Ng: how is manage the LP closing of bugs with bzr/ppa in terminator
<nxvl> Ng: nealmcb is asking for that
<nealmcb> :)
<nxvl> managed*
<Ng> I don't know of a way to do it for PPAs, but I would love it if there is a way
<cody-somerville> You can't do that currently
<cody-somerville> but I've filed a bug request asking for that feature
<nxvl> Ng: really? we don't do that in terminator?
<Ng> nxvl: I try to put the LP bug numbers in bugfix commits, but it doesn't make anything happen automagically
<nxvl> mm i thought it did
<Ng> for me, it would be nice if upstreams in LP could do that, but also tie a release to a milestone such that creating the release makes all Fix Committed bugs for that milestone be Fix Released
<Ng> but I am vaguely working on a launchpadlib script where feeding it a specific bug search URL will mark all the Fix Comitted bugs as Fix Released
<nxvl> Ng: from bzr we can't either?
<Ng> nxvl: hmm, dunno
<nxvl> that's the problems of the weekend, the alcohol affects my brain
<nxvl> :S
<Ng> I think not though
<nealmcb> Ng: so what is --fixed for in bzr - hmmm
<nealmcb> just a hook, with nothing on the lp backend?
<Ng> ooh interesting, but my guess is that it just stores some metadata
<nealmcb> oops - that's "--fixes" on commit command in bzr...
<nealmcb> with specific mention of launchpad....
<NCommander> nealmcb, it works with other bugtrackers; its documented in the documentation how to use --fixes
<nealmcb> NCommander: which ones does it work with?  and what exactly does it do?  the doc is vague iirc
<NCommander> Launchpad, Bugzilla, Trac, and I *think* one other type of tracker I can't remember
<NCommander> (maybe RT, but I'm drawing a blank)
 * nealmcb re-reads http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.0.18/configuration.htm
<nealmcb> oops - google is still finding an old one.   try http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.1.3/en/tutorials/using_bazaar_with_launchpad.html
<nealmcb> ... and I still don't understand what is written there....
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-05
<nealmcb> NCommander, ng, nxvl: I just noticed that while pushing bzr --fixes doesn't change the bug, it does provide a little button on the trunk page to update the bug.  I see it, and hope others do also:  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~nealmcb/electionaudits/trunk
<NCommander> oh
<wgrant> nealmcb: The link will also appear on the bug page.
<wgrant> --fixes shouldn't close the bug, because the branch might not be merged into trunk yet.
<nealmcb> wgrant: ah - yes indeed - interesting
<RAOF> Although there's discussion about making that happen when it _is_ merged to trunk.
<wgrant> RAOF: Indeed, that would be good.
<nealmcb> I wish the doc was clearer about all that. and I did see the conversation https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/120050
<ScottK-laptop> I disagree.
<wgrant> Merging stuff is changing, so it's not unthinkable.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 120050 in bzr "'bzr commit --fixes' should have better documentation" [Medium,Fix committed]
<wgrant> ScottK-laptop: On which point?
<ScottK-laptop> It shouldn't get marked fixed until it's in the archive.
<wgrant> ScottK-laptop: I think we're talking about upstream tasks.
<RAOF> ScottK-laptop: I think we're talking about different things.
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.
<wgrant> Distros don't have branches (yet).
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.
<ScottK-laptop> Nevermind then.
<RAOF> And when distros _have_ branches, then I'd suggest that "fix committed" is a worthwhile status for "fix in trunk, but not yet in archive" :)
<wgrant> But actually, you have a point - when something is merged to trunk, it should be marked Fix Committed, not Fix Released.
<RAOF> I obviously missed the start of this conversation.  I thought that was the expected status!
<wgrant> I guess I was thinking like changelog-closes-bugs.
<ScottK-laptop> Which is fine for after it's actually released somewhere.
<nealmcb> it offers fix-available for trunk now
<nealmcb> for non-ubuntu projects (which is where I started this conversation)
<cosmodad> hi all. I'm doing my first backport since I've upgraded to hardy, when when I do a dpkg --compare-versions of 1.2ubuntu3~hardy1 against 1.2ubuntu3, first isn't anymore greater-or-equal than latter. Has something changed on the version policy?
<cosmodad> s/when/but/
<wgrant> cosmodad: ~ is explicitly less than nothing.
<RAOF> cosmodad: That's the expected behaviour; ~ always sorts after everything else
<NCommander> cosmodad, that's be design
<cosmodad> wow. :)
<cosmodad> hmm I could swear this has worked before.
<wgrant> Not a chance.
<NCommander> Backports, and SRUs require the ~ to make sure upgrades work sanely
<wgrant> NCommander: Not SRUs.
<NCommander> Oh right
<NCommander> SRU's use X.1
<NCommander> ANd so forth
<wgrant> No, that's -security.
<cosmodad> ok so I get this error: "ifupdown depends on netbase (>= 4.30ubuntu2); however: Version of netbase on system is 4.30ubuntu2~hardy1." How'd I resolve it properly?
<wgrant> SRUs use whatever the uploader wants, which is bad.
<wgrant> cosmodad: Find the ifupdown dep.
<nealmcb> hmm - but just clicking on "fix available" on one of those pages and hitting "update" doesn't do anything.  and putting a comment in the box adds a comment but doesn't change the status
<wgrant> Er, Fix.
<NCommander> wgrant, wait .... seriously? I thought SRU was standardized on the version it used
<NCommander> wgrant, and security isn't always standardized. There are some oddball exceptions
<wgrant> NCommander: No - that would make sense.
<directhex> yay, NCommander is here
<cosmodad> wgrant: well I backported netbase myself, so what do I need to fix? how to version the package?
 * NCommander notes that backporting a base package like netbase is a bad idea
<wgrant> NCommander: Security is always X.1, unless the same version is in different distroseries, in which case it's X.Y.MM.Z
<wgrant> (Y.MM being the distroseries version number)
<NCommander> wgrant, clamav using backport versioning
<NCommander> wgrant, mostly because that's what clamav uses for security
<NCommander> or something to that effect
 * NCommander notes clamav sucks but yeah
<cosmodad> NCommander: I know, but it's just one debian revision number which I require.
<NCommander> cosmodad, your asking to break your system
<NCommander> anyway, to resolve your issue
<NCommander> You must backport every rdepend that has binary:Version depends
<NCommander> (beside the obvious chance of regressions, this is why we try to avoid backporting packages with rdepends out the wazoo)
<wgrant> NCommander: True, ClamAV is a very special case.
<wgrant> Like Firefox.
<cosmodad> NCommander: I backported both ifupdown and netbase. They depend on each other, and no other rdepend is affected as the other's rdepends are ok with respect to version numbers.
<cosmodad> NCommander: so I don't see what I'm missing.
<NCommander> cosmodad, you need to edit the control files to also make sure all the version numbers match
<NCommander> I emphasize again that this is a horribly stupid idea if you care about your computer
<cosmodad> NCommander: on numerous backports I've done before, I never touched the version fields of debian/control. How come it is required now?
<cosmodad> is it because of the circular dependency?
<NCommander> Because there are likely hardcoded version numbers for a reason
<cosmodad> hard-coded in control you mean?
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> I'm going to be blunt. Unless you explain why you need netbase on hardy and can't upgrade to intrepid, I don't think I can help you anymore; what your trying to do is absolutely crazy.
<cosmodad> NCommander: intrepid is still beta, and the versions of ifupdown and netbase I require fix a bug that makes my wifi work when starting up my machine and possibly also when I recover from STR/D.
<cosmodad> NCommander: I'll reconsider doing what I do if you'd be so kind and re-explain to me why this is so crazy.
<cosmodad> I still don't see the point as this is just a minor change.
 * NCommander bashes his head into a wall a few times
<cosmodad> just for the sake of knowledge, please explain.
<NCommander> netbase controls ipup/ipdown/etc. Looking at the changelog, those commands had some internal changes to the way they handle networking, and in addition, should there be a incompability, you are promised to break your machine
<NCommander> If you break your machine
<NCommander> No one will be able to help you, and you will be SOL
<cosmodad> I see. And why couldn't a simple reinstall of the old versions fix such a problem?
<nealmcb> wgrant: I'm also surprised that although launchpad updates the bug page about the fix in the branch, it doesn't send mail about that.  Anyway, this discussion should go on in #launchpad, but I just had wanted to track down those situations in ubuntu where this stuff does work, based on queries raised in #launchpad.  thanks, all!
<wgrant> nealmcb: Hmmm, that lack of mail sounds like a bug.
<zul> geser: yes I can do it tomorrow
<directhex> what am i doing wrong if i get "dh_installchangelogs: I have no package to build"
<RAOF> directhex: Trying to build arch-all packages on !i386?
<directhex> RAOF, isn't that an ubuntu issue, not one you meet when using dpkg-buildpackage ?
<RAOF> Possibly.  Although you could get it by running a build with the smart arch-all flag (-a ?) locally, I think.
<directhex> it's arch:any
<directhex> but now you mention it, the -dev package ought to be all
<directhex> RAOF, somehow you're right - the arch:all package builds fine, the arch-any packages are ignored
<nealmcb> wgrant: I added comment about lack of --fixes mail to that bug I noted before.  thanks again
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Clamav had backports revision numbers in -updates and -security because it lived in backports for a while and then got copied over once it was well tested.
<NCommander> ScottK, sounds like loads of fun ;-)
<ScottK-laptop> It was.
<ScottK-laptop> OTOH, getting the same clamav version in 4 releases with all the rdepends working was kind of my thesis project for my core-dev application.
<ScottK-laptop> Just to pick one particularly 'fun' example, if you look at avscan in Dapper you'll find the -updates version is the Dapper Debian packaging, the Feisty base package, and one file grabbed from the Hardy version.
<NCommander> o_o;
<NCommander> ScottK, you need to look at the subversion backport
<NCommander> It got tested
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: OK.  I like sticking with openssl.
<ScottK-laptop> Since that's what Hardy already does.
<ScottK-laptop> How do you feel about that?
<NCommander> Works for me since its the path of least resistance so to speak
<NCommander> ScottK, it also lets me backport 1.5.2 once I find some piece of mind.
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  Is there a debdiff for that in the bug?
<NCommander> ScottK, should be
<ScottK-laptop> K.  What's the bug number again?
<NCommander> ScottK, also look at this one https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/276016
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276016 in hardy-backports "Please backport clamav 0.9.4 from intrepid" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<NCommander> Hrm
<ScottK-laptop> We aren't ready on that one yet.  We need work on the rdepends.
<ScottK-laptop> Need to figure out what to do about avscan.
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/265065
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 265065 in subversion "Subversion 1.5.1 does not work with SSL certificates" [Undecided,New]
<NCommander> ScottK, also https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/243583
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243583 in hardy-backports "Can not install libqtwebkit-dev after libqt4-dev backport install" [Medium,Incomplete]
<NCommander> ScottK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/241560
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241560 in hardy-backports "Please backport bugzilla 3.0 from Intrepid to Hardy" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<NCommander> :-)
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: I've stared at that one a bit, but not with enough alcohol in my bloodstream to actually come op with a solution (243583)
<NCommander> I posted a solution
<NCommander> A backport of webkit fixes it
<NCommander> or at least it did
<NCommander> THat being said, libqtwebkit was removed from intrepid -_-;
<NCommander> It's qt4-webkit now
<ScottK-laptop> Right.  You don't want libqtwebkit
 * ScottK-laptop goes to help the 5 year old clean the kitchen
<NCommander> ScottK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/257211 also
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257211 in rsync "please backport rsync 3 from Intrepid to Hardy" [Undecided,Invalid]
<NCommander> ScottK, also https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/260998
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260998 in hardy-backports "Please backport Xen 3.3 from Intrepid" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<csilk> What exactly is a lintian out fo date standards warning?
<wgrant> csilk: A warning from lintian that the package asserts compliance to an old Standards-Version.
<csilk> How can I rectify this?
<ScottK-laptop> Generally you don't.
<wgrant> csilk: Ensure that the package complies with the newest version of Debian policy, and update the version number in debian/control.
<ScottK-laptop> wgrant: Unless we're getting the package from Debian, then you don't
<wgrant> ScottK-laptop: Good point. But I would have thought it should be well known that you only make minimal changes in Debian-derived packages.
<csilk> wgrant, as far as I'm aware the package meets the latest debian policy. I'll just ammend the Standards-version: fiel din control, i assume that iwll remove the warning
<wgrant> csilk: As ScottK says, you would only do that if it was not in Debian.
<ScottK-laptop> wgrant: Right, well Ubuntu Policy specifically says not to change it now.
<wgrant> And you can't say "as far as I'm aware"; you need to check.
<wgrant> ScottK-laptop: Oh, good.
<emh> what is the difference between Depends and PreDepends in a ubuntu package?
<ScottK-laptop> Same as in Debian.
<csilk> <wgrant> csilk: As ScottK says, you would only do that if it was not in Debian.
<csilk> wgrant,  it's not in debian
<wgrant> csilk: Ah, OK. Probably best to only make minimal changes at this point in the cycle, however.
<csilk> fyi, this is the first package I've ever done in preperation for revu
<wgrant> How did you get the old standards-version in the first place if it's a new package?
<csilk> I have no idea, That's what dhmake did for me
<csilk> wgrant,  any idea why dh_make would do that?
<wgrant> csilk: Because it's old, probably.
<csilk> wgrant,  the version of dh_make I'm using is the latest availabel via apt-get install
<csilk> *available
<csilk> unless of course that is a minor version out of date
<csilk> either way, i changed it to the latest version considering this is a new package
<ScottK-laptop> Well if you're using the Hardy version you're getting what was current when Hardy was released.
<csilk> I'll be testing this in a chroot intrepid
<csilk> Brilliant, lintain returns no errors and no warnings after I fixed the distclean option :D
<csilk> *lintian
<ScottK-laptop> csilk: Look in hardy-backports for a newer version.
<csilk> will do
<ryanakca> monopd suggests a package not included in Intrepid (atlantik)... who would I forward a debdiff to to have it uploaded?
<ScottK-laptop> ryanakca: atlantik was part of kdegames in KDE3, but not ported to KDE4.
<ScottK-laptop> So it's gone.
<ryanakca> ScottK-laptop: no, to have the suggests removed?
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.
<ScottK-laptop> ryanakca: I'll take care of it.
<ryanakca> ScottK-laptop: http://ryanak.ca/~ryan/monopd_0.9.3-4ubuntu1.debdiff
<ScottK-laptop> ryanakca: You forgot the maintainer change.  I got it.
<ryanakca> ScottK-laptop: splendid, thanks :)
<NCommander> hey ScottK
<ScottK-laptop> Heya NCommander.
<ScottK-laptop> Subversion is still building.
<NCommander> \o\
<NCommander> There were a bunch of other backports I asked you to look at ;-)
<ScottK-laptop> Yeah.  Subversion was the one I agreed to look at.
<NCommander> -_-;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
<ScottK-laptop> I'll do the qt webkit one too.  What's the bug number?
<NCommander> ScottK, sudo look at backports
<NCommander> :-)
 * ScottK-laptop is on break.  jdong is Mr. Backports this fall.
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop, jdong hasn't been active it seems
<NCommander> ScottK, there a lot that have no need for uploads, just need an ACK
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/243583
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243583 in hardy-backports "Can not install libqtwebkit-dev after libqt4-dev backport install" [Medium,Incomplete]
 * ScottK-laptop smacks jdong in the head to get his attention.
<ScottK-laptop> Right.  I'd really rather he did those.
<NCommander> Some of them are almost a month old
<NCommander> And since I'm not a backporter, I can't actually approve them -_-;
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: What exactly am I approving on that one?
<nxvl> nellery: hi!
<NCommander> the webkit backport, but I'm still not 100% its the right fix, I wanted someone else to perform a sanity check on it to make sure I didn't misanything
<ScottK-laptop> I don't have the spare cycles to really consider it, nor do I have a hardy machine to test it on.
<NCommander> I'll reconfirmed that backporting webkit makes things installable, but webkit has a rather nasty set of rdepends
<NCommander> It might break things worse
<ScottK-laptop> ryanakca: Uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.
<NCommander> *reconfirm
<ScottK-laptop> Which would have to be tested
<NCommander> right
<NCommander> But the broken dev package also breaks loads of things
<NCommander> (Qt's development headers are uninstallable ATM)
<ScottK-laptop> Right and in Kubuntu webkit wasn't really used for anything in Hardy, so it's safe.  I'm worried about Gnome though.
<NCommander> some of would consider a broken GNOME a feature ;-)
 * NCommander runs
<NCommander> We could probably hack the **** out of libqtwebkit to work, but thats also asking for a nice headache when upgrade time comes
<ScottK-laptop> Yep.
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Wouldn't adding a conflicts/replaces in libqt4-dev on libqtwebkit-dev solve it?
<NCommander> Hrm ... maybe
<ScottK-laptop> We probably want that for upgrades anyway in Intrepid
<NCommander> As far as installability goes
<ScottK-laptop> I think the issue is that the QT webkit stuff got folded into the main QT4 packages and not split out.
<NCommander> Maybe we should simply backport the current Qt package, and then leave a virtual libqtwebkit one in its place
<NCommander> Probably less likely to hose things then mucking around new Qt + old webkit
<ScottK-laptop> I don't think we want to take the hardy-backports QT4 from 4.4.0 to 4.4.3
<NCommander> Well, wasn't upgrading Qt in the first place what broke everything so miserably?
<ScottK-laptop> To 4.4.0.  Let's not build on the problem.
<NCommander> Point taken
<NCommander> I think the problem is the new Qt has the development headers of libqtwebkit
<ScottK-laptop> 4.4.3 has the conflicts already, so I'll just add it to the hardy-backports one.
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.
<NCommander> We still have the problem that anything that depends on lib-qtwebkit will go boom
<ScottK-laptop> So it has to conflict/replace it.
<NCommander> We need a virtual package so we don't break anything that depends on libqtwebkit-dev
<ScottK-laptop> Does anything?
<ScottK-laptop> IIRC it was pretty much a late afterthought that was almost immediately regretted.
<NCommander> Checking
<NCommander> what was
<NCommander> libqtwebkit-dev?
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.
<ScottK-laptop> And libqtwebkit
<NCommander> (I know we have two backports stalled because its uninstallable)
<NCommander> Well, libqtwebkit is file
<NCommander> *fine
<NCommander> If we scratch the source package via a removal, the dev package would disappear, but NBS would prevent the library from going poof
 * NCommander feels his hack meter go off
<NCommander> apt-cache rdepends says that only libqt has a depends on libqtwebkit
<ScottK-laptop> Which isn't a problem if you have the new QT4.
<NCommander> so its just a matter of turning libqtwebkit into a transitional package so anything that build-deps on it still works sanely if you have backports enabled
<ScottK-laptop> No NBS because we aren't touching the release pocket.  Only backports.
<ScottK-laptop> The we just add provides to the mix then.
<ScottK-laptop> The/Then
<NCommander> We have a versioned depends
<NCommander> a provides won't do the trick
<ScottK-laptop> Where?
<ScottK-laptop> Back in 5
<jdong> sigh, jdong is being raped by Ron Rivest's homework assignment this weekend; please give me another 5 hours or so to be alive.
<jdong> (yes that's the R in RSA)
<csilk> Would i tbe benefical to update my version of pbuilder if building a package fro intrepid?
<csilk> *for
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.  That's also in hardy-backports
<csilk> i'd of thought so, although i cant find it in hardy backports
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.  Actually it's the new debchroot that you want.
<ScottK-laptop> Not pbuilder
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Where's this versioned depends?
<NCommander> I thought libqt-dev has a versioned depends on libqtwebkit-dev
<NCommander> So I guess the problem is mute now that I thought about it
<ScottK-laptop> mute/moot, but yes.
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Why don't you whip me up a debdiff for that then?
<csilk> debchroot?
<ScottK-laptop> That (or something very close to that) is what pbuilder uses to make the chroot it builds inside of.
<csilk> rite, so I'd need to update my version of that package
<csilk> i cant find anything even similar to it in hardy-backports
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Didn't we want to add something openssl'ish to the build-dep for subversion?
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop, thats pulled in via the libneon build dep
<ScottK-laptop> So it's OK I don't see openssl pulled in as a dep to any binary?
<NCommander> Yeah, openssl -> libneon -> subversion
<NCommander> SOmeone already confirmed the debdiff works
<NCommander> (since I uploaded it to the PPA
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> NCommander: Subversion uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.
<cody-somerville> NCommander, don't be late
<NCommander> On what?
<NCommander> ^- cody-somerville
<NCommander> cody-somerville, ?
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Now he's got you worried.  That's a success for a manager.
<NCommander> ScottK, not when his coworkers loose their mind and are committed
<NCommander> ;-)
 * NCommander bzr ci's himself
<RickZilla> Ok, I'm officially in the market for a sound card that will work on my Pentium 4 ubuntu machine...taking any and all recommendations! Thanks for your help.
<cody-somerville> RickZilla, I recommend anything off the shelve.
<RickZilla> cody-somerville:  I spent about 6 hours trying to troubleshoot why I didn't have sound on my Creative Soundblaster card on my Dell machine...I'm just looking to see what other lInux users are having success with
<cody-somerville> The 90's called, they want their soundcard back.
<RickZilla> :-)
<RickZilla> The machine itself is about 6 years old, so you're not too far off the mark.
<csilk> If theres a package for an app already made but isn't available in the repo what policy dictates how it could make it's way to the repo, could i just check it's conformity then upload to revu or what?
<ScottK> Yes, but with the understanding that we aren't taking new packages for Intrepid any more.
<csilk> Yeah I know, I'd be waiting till after the release of intrepid of course
<alteregoa> how can i manual select the gateway?
<Hobbsee> Someone should package up the hardy wallpapers, and put them into intrepid.
<Pupeno1> Hello.
<Pupeno1> How do I get the version of the package inside rules?
<sebner> asac aka nm-rocker \o/ ^^
<james_w> directhex: hi, I'd like your opinion on a bug please
<james_w> bug 211347
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 211347 in sysinfo "sysinfo Fails to Find Hardware" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211347
<james_w> directhex: how hard would it be to make the list dynamic?
<directhex> dynamic IWW?
<directhex> oh, you mean stop forcing a size on the array, so it doesn't die when it finds too many foo or bar controllers?
<directhex> oh lord, what dumb code.
<directhex> james_w, busy with other tasks right now, but System.Collections.ArrayList is a dynamic-length array you can just add items to. hard-coded array sizes = moronic in extremis
<directhex> OR, if you're looking for the "better" solution, look towards compiling the app against .net 2.0 using gmcs instead of 1.0 (we're dropping support for 1.0 apps in jaunty) - which adds generics, and you can use a string list generic
<StevenK> directhex: C has hard coded array sizes?
<sebner> StevenK: C#? yes
<StevenK> No, C
<directhex> StevenK, it's C# though. and it has a hard-coded size if you explicitly create a new array with 5 null objects in it
<directhex> StevenK, using a smart language then chopping off a leg is dumb
<StevenK> directhex: You may want a hard limit, though. It depends on the situation.
<directhex> not in this one. this is a fairly old pc and exceeds some of this app's hard-coded limits by more than 2x
<directhex> generally speaking, when is lspci output gonna need hard-coded limits?
<StevenK> I dunno. The last program I wrote that touched lspci was written in Perl :-)
<directhex> StevenK, it's pretty obvious the guy doesn't underdtand what he's doing anyway - to make a fixed size array, use String[n] not String[]={null,null,null,...,null}
<james_w> thanks directhex
<slytherin> geser: can you please ack bug #277088
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277088 in libjrosetta-java "Please move package to universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277088
 * marnanel has a cdbs question.  I am packaging a GNOME application.  I added "include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/gnome.mk" to debian/rules.  When it runs it attempts to run "configure" (which doesn't exist) rather than "autogen.sh".  I should package it in the post-autogen.sh'd state?
<marnanel> s/runs/installs/ (and fails, obviously)
<azeem> marnanel: yeah, or override the configure target
<azeem> marnanel: but the former is probably better, unless this is a badly made upstream tarball you don't want to modify further
<marnanel> azeem: okay, thanks.  just wanted to check before I did anything crazy.
<azeem> marnanel: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml has some nice examples, but there is also a lot of crack in there
<marnanel> thanks!
 * marnanel is amused that cdbs is supposed to make everything easier and people immediately start talking about the crack in it :)
<azeem> well, some intermediate maintainers of it added a lot of stuff which did crazy automatic stuff most people frowned upon
<azeem> it got a pretty bad reputation in the Debian community by that time
<azeem> also, the most important variable, DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS is only explained halfway through that document, after "automatic handling of debian/control" etc.
<tobi> does "Please subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to any bugs for which you wish to request sponsorship." mean I shall assign the bug via launchpad to ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
<slytherin> tobi: which bug?
<tobi> it's more a general question about the sponsoring process, the sentence above is from the ubuntu sponsor team page
<slytherin> tobi: by the way, subscribe means subscribe, not assign
<marnanel> Is it out of place to ask about packaging problems for PPA things?
<james_w> marnanel: hey, if it's about the workings of PPAs the #launchpad is better, but for packaging things you can ask here
<marnanel> Okay... I packaged something and it appears to have built, and I added my PPA to sources.list and did an update, and yet apt-cache search can't find it.  Is that anything obvious from the description?
<marnanel> s/built/built properly/
<james_w> marnanel: once it's built it will take a few minutes to be published, so if you were too quick you may have missed it
<marnanel> Okay, thanks
<james_w> marnanel: it's published now, so another update might work
<marnanel> cheers
<marnanel> YAY
<marnanel> it's there
<marnanel> thank you
<james_w> no problem
<directhex> directhex@mortos:/tmp/moon$ dpkg -l \*moon\* | grep ^ii
<directhex> ii  libmoon-dev                                0.8.1+dfsg-1                                               open source implementation of Microsoft Silverlight
<directhex> ii  libmoon0                                   0.8.1+dfsg-1                                               open source implementation of Microsoft Silverlight
<directhex> ii  moonlight-plugin-core                      0.8.1+dfsg-1                                               open source implementation of Microsoft Silverlight
<directhex> ii  moonlight-plugin-mozilla                   0.8.1+dfsg-1                                               open source implementation of Microsoft Silverlight
<eagles051387> !pastebin | directhex
<ubottu> directhex: pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<sebner> directhex: ahahaha
<directhex> sebner, sat in SVN, awaiting tagging & uploading ;)
<sebner> directhex: that's great but don't ignore the warning ^^
<sebner> directhex: but why is it called moon?
<directhex> sebner, dunno. blame upstream. the tarballs's called moon, and there's no moon source package, so...
 * directhex moons sebner 
<sebner> rofl
<sebner> crazy
<directhex> sebner, i'm sure there'll be petitions to remove it from the archive once it goes in, but still
<sebner> directhex: really? I always thought people trust debian guys with license things and so on
<directhex> sebner, TEH PATENTZ!
<directhex> sebner, (ignoring the usual details)
<directhex> sebner, funny thing is, moonlight DOES contain code (c) microsoft.
<directhex> sebner, that code is licensed under Ms-PL
<directhex> sebner, Ms-PL is a GPL3-compatible license containing a full patent grant
<sebner> directhex: I know. funny :) ... Please remove moon from Debian Unstable. Rationale: PATENTZ :P
<directhex> sebner, did you read http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/linux/51/ ? ^_^
<sebner> directhex: of course. I told you that that's  a great post :P
<directhex> sebner, apologies, i have memory issues so i don't remember who has & hasn't seen something
<sebner> directhex: np. :)
<sebner> directhex: btw, I'm wondering if you also hack a little bit on smuxi!?
<directhex> sebner, i have little time for app development
<sebner> directhex: what a pitty, seems you have a good knowledge of C# :)
<directhex> sebner, only what i've picked up, and applied from my java-based undergrad degree
<sebner> directhex: oh my god. the j word xD
<eagles051387> directhex: can you explain to me what the purpose of silverlight is. and 2ndly my degree is also java based lol
<sebner> eagles051387: to kill flash :P
<eagles051387> silverlight = flash equivalent
<directhex> eagles051387, silverlight is largely a flash competititor. there are other distinctions, but the easiest description is "microsoft's version of flash"
<directhex> iirc all the streaming access to the olympics in the US was done via silverlight
<eagles051387> wow
<eagles051387> someone needs to dev a linux based flash player to compete with adobe flash and silverlight
<directhex> well, gnash is a cross-platform reverse-engineered flash player
<eagles051387> the problem with that is it doesnt work in firefox
<directhex> moonlight is a cross-platform implementation of silverlight
<eagles051387> i had it and with ff3 it never used to work for me
<eagles051387> ahhh gotcha that would be sweet to have in repos
<sebner> eagles051387: it will, with jaunty ;)
<eagles051387> ?
<eagles051387> jaunty is next aprils release
<directhex> right.
<eagles051387> already have the name for it
<directhex> sebner, depending on how meebey feels, i might publish a moon package into my mono repo today
<directhex> sebner, i want approval on the package as-is first
<eagles051387> well when i get settled down with my lecture schedule im going to start helping pkg stuff and bug fix if i can
<sebner> directhex: nice, I think I have moonlight through a firefox xpi installed but never used it so far
<directhex> eagles051387, http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/moonlight.png is a couple of embedded silverlight objects in a web page, running via moonlight
<eagles051387> nice
<eagles051387> !info moonlight
<ubottu> Package moonlight does not exist in hardy
<marnanel> I was asked to put up a trunk build of metacity in my PPA.  But of course that replaces metacity, metacity-common, etc.  I put "Replaces:" those in the debian/control file, but it doesn't replace them, and the line doesn't show in apt-cache show.
 * marnanel asked in #launchpad and they sent me right back here :)
<azeem> marnanel: "Replaces" simply indicates that this package overwrites files from the package it replaces
<azeem> you need more magic to have APT actually install that package in favour of the other
<azeem> marnanel: why did you rename the package, instead of just bumping the version?
<azeem> it seems both are not parallel-installable anyway
<marnanel> hm.  a) I knew they weren't parallel-installable: I wouldn't have expected to replace one with the other if they were, unless I'm confused.  b) all the other nightly trunk packages I've seen used different names.  I worried I'd tread on the real maintainer's toes
<azeem> hrm, ok
<azeem> marnanel: what's an example for another nightly trunk, or are those local packages?
<marnanel> azeem: avant-window-navigator has awn-manager-trunk, python-awn-trunk, awn-extras-applets-trunk, and some others
<gilir> marnanel: but we use Replaces: and Conflicts: field :)
<azeem> marnanel: heh, and google is full of installation dependency issues with those :)
<marnanel> Okay, so, what should I do instead?  "metacity"?  wouldn't that annoy the real Ubuntu maintainers for me to start creating new versions?
<azeem> good question, depends on how popular those will be I guess
 * marnanel nods, but it's hard to tell that before anyone's used them. :)
<IntuitiveNipple> "Replaces" and "Conflicts" ought to cause dpkg to remove the previous package, according to Debian policy
<Elbrus> is the PPA not just meant for people that want something special? I guess you should not worry too much about the real maintainer, and just make sure that your PPA package uses an appropriate version number: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA#versioning
<Elbrus> or don't I understand the problem?
<Elbrus> marnanel: ^
<marnanel> Elbrus: oh, pretty much for people who want bleeding-edge stuff.  I'm planning to upload it every night, though, and link to it from the Metacity page
<marnanel> (the upstream page)
<Elbrus> marnanel: this means your upstream? I guess you have a good relation with your maintainer?
<Elbrus> marnanel: I guess you won't have to worry about the Ubuntu package if your targetting people that want the cutting edge. They should know that includes risks and fixing is easy: removing the PPA repository from sources.list or sources.list.d
<Elbrus> marnanel: and of course fixing the version
<IntuitiveNipple> For my 'bleeding edge' PPA packages I just bump the version number, add ~ppaXh (X ==release number, h == hardy), and modify the control Maintainer: field to be me.
<marnanel> Okay-- thanks
<marnanel> Elbrus: I don't really have a good relationship with my maintainer, or any really.
 * marnanel is the (primary) upstream maintainer, yes
 * marnanel doesn't really talk to the Ubuntu maintainer much, which is a shame
<Elbrus> marnanel: I would say that that is not good practise of your maintainer. Maybe initiate some communication? I think you could both benefit (and thus the whole community).
<csilk> oin #ubuntu-bugs
<marnanel> Elbrus: I agree, now you mention it.  I'll email them.  Thanks.
<csilk> join #ubuntu-bugs
<csilk> hmm, slash button seem a little broken
<Nafallo> /
<Nafallo> feel free to copy one :-)
<directhex> who feels like trying my moonlight packages for size, then?
<marnanel> Okay, I've changed the name to "metacity", but now I can't see it at all after updating.  Did I accidentally give it a version number that's less than the hardy one?  (Hardy is "1:2.22.0-0ubuntu4", mine is "ppa~20081005a"-- "p" is after "1", isn't it?)
<directhex> i don't know if apt understands the idea of purely alphabetical package numbers
<stgraber> marnanel: you should try with: 2.22.0-0ubuntu5~20081005a~ppa1
<stgraber> this one will be just higher enough to make it upgrade
<directhex> 1:2.22.0-0ubuntu4+20081005a~ppa1
<directhex> if it's not based on 2.22.0-0ubuntu5, don't number it as 2.22.0-0ubuntu5
<marnanel> But it's not based on 2.22
<azeem> marnanel: what about 1:2.23.0~20081005-0ubuntu1~ppa1 or something
<directhex> yes!
<marnanel> It's actually the 2.25 branch, but sure. 1:2.25.0~20081005-0ubuntu1~ppa1, then?
<azeem> eh, right
<azeem> sure
<marnanel> (er, trunk isn't a branch, obviously, but you see what I mean)
<azeem> marnanel: yeah, assuming that the next Ubuntu upload will be 2.25.0-something
<azeem> which is a pretty good guess
<azeem> marnanel: btw, you can run "dpkg --compare-version 1:2.25.0-0ubuntu1 gt 1:2.25.0~20081005-0ubuntu1~ppa1"
<azeem> and check the return value
<marnanel> azeem: thanks
<Ayabara> Hi. I asked in #ubuntu+1 about getting a newer version of digikam-kde4 in the intrepid repos, and was directed here. Beta1 is in the repos today, but Beta4 was released a couple of days ago.
<devfil> Ayabara: I'm working on it
<Ayabara> devfil, great :)
<Turl> any possibility to include a main package on universe?
<Turl> I'd really like to see php5-gtk2 included on ubuntu, nevermind if it's in universe
<RainCT> Turl: not for Intrepid
<Turl> intrepid+1 ?
<RainCT> Turl: but once Jaunty (intrepid+1) development starts, yes, it can enter universe if someone (you? :)) packages it
<Turl> really it should be in main (as all other php parts) but I nevermind it being included in universe
<Turl> no, I can't package :p It's too complicated. I just manage with debianPackageMaker, and that's the higher I could get xD
<eagles051387> night
<jdong> was it nixternal yesterday who was asking how to config touchpad settings now that there's no xorg.conf?
<jdong> because I have the same question.
<pochu> jdong: I think you can still configure xorg.conf. It's not required, but if you have one, it will be read
<wgrant> jdong: You should use either System->Preferences->Mouse->Touchpad or an fdi file, depending on the settings you want... I'll pull up the docs in a sec.
<wgrant> jdong: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config, the "Input Configuration" section.
<wgrant> Specifically the Synaptics part of "Input Configuration with HAL"
<wgrant> jdong: But if you tell me which settings you need, I might be able to expose them in the GUI later this week...
<jdong> wgrant: I need two finger scrolling config, and the ability to disable two finger tapping middle-click
 * NCommander pokes jdong 
<NCommander> jdong, backports await your ACK
<wgrant> jdong: Two finger scrolling I've already implemented a UI for, but different tapping configs I haven't done... I might do that this afternoon.
<wgrant> jdong: You can set those easily within X using xinput, or use an fdi file.
<directhex> the mighty NCommander is here!
<jdong> wgrant: will do
<NCommander> directhex, do you want SSH access to one of my PPC boxes?
<NCommander> Or do you want me to mass-build a set of packages?
<directhex> NCommander, that would be good
<NCommander> Standby
 * NCommander turns on the PPC box
<directhex> NCommander, well, the ideal would be a buildd installation i can dput to ;)
<NCommander> directhex, seriously?
<NCommander> How many packages are we talking about?
<directhex> NCommander, 11. another one soon once my sponsor OKs my latest package (moonlight browser plugin)
<NCommander> directhex, are they all in a PPA?
<NCommander> I can simply point buildd to work against that
<directhex> NCommander, yes, they're all in my PPA
<NCommander> I assume they depend on each other
 * NCommander notes you don't make my life easy ;-)
<NCommander> If its just 11 packages, I perfer if you just built them by hand, and not bother with buildd setup and configuration; its a pain
<directhex> the hardy sections of https://launchpad.net/~directhex/+archive
<NCommander> directhex, and why do you need them for PPC? (I'm just curious)
<directhex> NCommander, i had a request for ppc support
<NCommander> I see
<NCommander> Ubuntu or Debian PPC?
<directhex> NCommander, it's a fairly popular repo (about 9k users on i386 and amd64)
<NCommander> fair enough
<directhex> NCommander, hardy. i package for ubuntu lts
<NCommander> I need a place to upload to
<NCommander> My machine is on a dymanic IP
<directhex> can bounce it through my webspace, hang on...
<NCommander> Setup an FTP server or something that can be dputted to
<NCommander> It needs to run apt-ftparchive or dpkg-scanpackages so I can notification of the Installed state
<NCommander> directhex, none of these look like they have crazy build-deps, so it should just work
<directhex> crazy, moi?
<NCommander> MOI?
<NCommander> Mechanism of Injury?
<directhex> me, in french
<NCommander> I mean I can build each package indidividually it seems
<jdong> grumble stupid hardlocks.
<directhex> NCommander, there's no enormous reason why you couldn't, i mean they're all top-quality packages by the experts ;). i just thought it might be a PITA to do things manually
<directhex> then again, it's a PITA to set up a buildd. theres no winning in this life
<directhex> perhaps if i could make qemu or pearpc work, it might be easier
<NCommander> directhex, well, setting up a buildd is one time PITA (although you have to sign the build emails)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-28
<geser> when you go on "See full publishing history" you can also see the dates when it happened
<ScottK> zooko: Accepted.  You may get a reject mail, but that was me rejecting the previous one.
<ScottK> jdong: ^^
<jdong> ScottK: *nods* cool :)
<jdong> zooko will be happy
<Coolg1026> Does anyone else have issues with graphics in FF 3.5?
<Coolg1026> Changing a gfx config in about:config in FF fixes this.
<Coolg1026> All SIS comps seem to be affected by this color correction issue.
<Coolg1026> *SIS video chip
<Coolg1026> gfx.color_management.mode
<Coolg1026> when set to 0 fixes this.
<Coolg1026> Hello?
<ScottK> Coolg1026: #ubuntu+1 for Karmic help.
<zooko> Oh boy oh boy oh boy...
 * zooko sees that tahoe-lafs is gone from the queue...
 * zooko searches on packages.ubuntu.com...
<zooko> Okay, it is not there yet, but I'll bet it will show up soon after a regularly scheduled job!
<ScottK> zooko: I accepted the binary too, so once the current publisher run finishes, it should be installable.
<ScottK> zooko: Probably another 25 minutes plus however long it takes for it to get to your mirror.
<StevenK> zooko: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tahoe-lafs
<ScottK> zooko: I imagine it seems like we're unbelievably anal about the licensing stuff, but we really do have to be careful.
<zooko> Whoo-hoo!  :-)
<zooko> I really enjoyed seeing the intimate details of how picky you are about licensing.  Very interesting.
<zooko> I have a deep interest in open source licensing already.
<zooko> Whoo-hoo!  There is is!  I'm now going to announce it excitedly on tahoe-dev mailing list, my blog, etc.
<lifeless> ScottK: well, we think we have to be :P
<ScottK> lifeless: Certainly.
<zooko> Hm, well I think this means it is time to upgrade my main development workstation from jaunty to karmic. :-)
 * StevenK looks at the NBS queue and goes 'argh'
 * ScottK figures then that StevenK would faint if he reviewed the archive rebuild test results.
<StevenK> I doubt iut
<StevenK> s/iut/it/
<ScottK> The good news is that slightly over 7/8 of the packages in the archive can be built in the archive.
<ajmitch> which still leaves 1/8 that don't?
<zooko> Here goes the big apt-get dist-upgrade.  :-)
<ScottK> Yep
<ScottK> zooko: Use update-manaer
<ScottK> zooko: do-release-upgrage -d
<zooko> Hm.  Are you sure?  I've heard of that before, but I've been using apt-get dist-upgrade for, you know, almost a decade now, most recently two days ago to update some servers from feisty->gutsy->hardy.
<zooko> I'm a traditionalist stick-in-the-mud and I hate new things.
<ScottK> It will often work, but it's not the supported method.
<zooko> But, if you say so...
<wgrant> And it will break sometimes.
<wgrant> Feisty->Gutsy was particularly bad for me.
<ScottK> I do it sometimes too for testing, but it has work arounds for known problems so your upgrade is more likely to succeed.
<zooko> Whoops, I accidentally installed upgrade-manager from karmic instead of jaunty.  Oh well.  :-)
<ajmitch> last I recall, dist-upgrade is still supported but doesn't have the specific handling for corner cases
<ScottK> Right, so if you hit those cases, you are suddenly unsupported....
<zooko> By the way, is update-manager shared with debian?
<ScottK> There was a Google SOC project to bring it to Debian.
 * zooko reasd update-manager --help.  Cool, aufs.
<ScottK> Not sure how it worked out.
<zooko> by the way, it says "No new release found".
<zooko> Ah, that's because it already thinks it as at Karmic.  Whoops.
<zooko> Hm.  Might as well try out dist-upgrade just in case I can help out anyone else who tries this and hits a snag after Karmic is release.  ;-)
<StevenK> zooko: -d to say "Look for development releases"
<zooko> StevenK: I did.  The problem was I accidentally apt-get installed update-manager from karmic, and it brought in base files, so now it thinks it is already at Karmic.
<lifeless> \o/
<zooko> ScottK: I would like to rename the project page in launchpad from allmydata-tahoe to tahoe-lafs.  Ideally a vestigial "forwarding" page would be left at allmydata-tahoe pointing to tahoe-lafs for a while (a few years?).  Do you know how to accomplish such a thing?
<lifeless> zooko: #launchpad
<zooko> I guess I could g..
<zooko> What lifeless just said.
<sharms> yeah update-manager -d tells me no new release found also
<sharms> must be broken right now
<zooko> What URL should I give to people accompanying encouragement that they should upgrade to Karmic in order to help beta test?
<sharms> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha6
<zooko> Thanks.
<zooko> ext4 default!  You crazy kids.
<lifeless> crazy like a fox; and you know how that turns out
<jdong> zooko: BTRFS! BTRFS!
<jdong> *withholds output of mount on his present machine*
<zooko> Yeah, btrfs is going to be great.
<zooko> I messed around with reiser4 on my workstation at my day job last week.  :-)
<ScottK> zooko: It's likely because you had the Karmic upgrade-manager that it didn't find a later release.
<ScottK> Right, now I see you figured that out alread.
<ScottK> y
<zooko> Is ubuntu-bug a good way to report bugs?
<zooko> I've been using launchpad web site, but I prefer not to use web ui if ubuntu-bug is good.
<zooko> Hm, what is this thing that I'm talking about.  Ithought someone mentioned it on this channel recently, but now I don't see it.
<zooko> Oh well, I'll use the web site.
<ScottK> zooko: ubuntu-bug is the preferred method
<RAOF> ubuntu-bug is the cannonical way to file bugs, yes.
<ScottK> Ouch
<zooko> Ouch what, the fact that "ubuntu-bug" doesn't appear in "apt-cache search ubuntu-bug"?
<RAOF> Eh, spelling is for the weak.
<zooko> Oh, it matches "reportbug".
<ScottK> Don't use reportbug.
<zooko> But at least in the bad old days, "reportbug" would send your bug reports to somewhere they weren't wanted.
<ScottK> RAOF: The ouch was for the pun, not the spelling.
 * RAOF wonders idly why a pulse callback that could obviously be called exactly once actually gets called exactly twice, with NULL the second time.
<zooko> So, how do I get ubuntu-bug?
<RAOF> It'll be in apport somewhere, right?
<RAOF> dpkg -S says...
<RAOF> apport :)
<zooko> Thanks.
<zooko> Yikes, apport won't work with my current system (not surprising), but the "yikes" is that launchpad takes me to a page telling me to use apport when I click "report a bug".
<zooko> Hello launchpad.  I'm talkin to *you*...
<ScottK> It's on purpose.  I did file a bug suggesting the redirection to require using apport to report bugs not be applied to apport itself.
<zooko> Ah, well I wasn't going to report a bug in apport.
<zooko> I guess if you guys are sufficiently serious about this, then I should just take notes and then once apport works I can go ahead and report the bugs.
<zooko> There's a good chance I'll have forgotten/lost interest but then, but oh well.
<lifeless> zooko: did you see the url?
<lifeless> I pointed you at it in #launchpad
<zooko> lifeless: that URL -- https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug -- redirects to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs .
<lifeless> zooko: yes, and on that page
<lifeless> zooko: -> #launchpad
<zooko> lifeless: okay I finally see it.  Thanks!
<zooko> lifeless: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/knode/+filebug?no-redirect  gives me a "no such page" error.
<lifeless> the source package is kdepim I think
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> change knode to kdepim
<ScottK> zooko: apt-cache show knode will tell you for sure what the source package is.
<zooko> ScottK thanks.
<ScottK> You're welcome
<zooko> I probably would have figured that out if it weren't past my bedtime.  Maybe I should stop reporting bugs and go to sleep.
<zooko> Sadly, I have to go to $dayjob in the morning, so I have the feeling that I can prolong the weekend and hack on open source for fun if I stay up.
<ScottK> zooko: Just remember that sleep is for the weak.
<zooko> :-)
<zooko> My wife was just reminding me that I've stayed up late for the last 5 days in a row and I'm getting really grumpy.
<lifeless> s/ak/ekend/
<zooko> I'm really happy about Tahoe-LAFS being in Karmic, though.
<zooko> good night folks!
<hyperair> who takes care of emacs-snapshot?
<wrapster> how to use dh_link.. is it necessary to create debian/links file? coz i was going through a makefile which has something like this... dh_link -p <source> <dest>
<persia> wrapster, Creation of debian/links or debian/${package}.links is optional, but it's often easier to read for others than embedding it in debian/rules.
<wrapster> persia: so could you tell me how to use it.. the man page hardly has anything
<persia> So, if you're creating from scratch, or adding links, best to use debian/links, but if you encounter a package that embeds it, best to follow that when adding more links.
<persia> wrapster, What are you trying to accomplish?
<wrapster> assume it this way.. im trying to repack gcc by creating a symlink to /usr/sfw/bin/gcc from /usr/bin/gcc
<wrapster> how do i go about it.
<wrapster> as an eg
<wrapster> the similar was achieved through native commands but i want to use dh_link
<wrapster> to learn...
<persia> For that example, I'd not use dh_link, as I think you're seeking to use an alternate gcc, and would therefore recommend investigation of the alternatives system.
<persia> That said, use of a debian/links file (in the format of source destination) is easiest.
<persia> Otherwise, it's dh_link [debhelper options] [-A] [-Xitem] [source destination ...]
<dholbach> good morning
<wrapster> persia: thats what i did.. and in the rules file just add dh_link is it?
<persia> Yes.
<wrapster> under the proper rule ofcourse
<wrapster> and when i do create the links.. how should the path be specified.. generally if its hardcoded in the rules file.. an i want a link at usr/sfw/bin/ then this is what i will do.. ln -s <source> debian/<pkg name/usr/sfw/bin/<file name> ... is that how i write the links files as well. or just /usr/sfw/bin/<file name>
<persia> From the manpage: "Be sure you do specify the full filename to both the source and destination files (unlike you would do if you were using something like ln(1))"
<wrapster> persia: ok cool.. thats what i've done lets see how it goes..
<mase_wk_> Heya, tried asking this question in ubuntu-kernel but I guess no one knows or its not appropriate. i have just built a 2.6.31kernel with make-kpkg and I have used the --initrd switch however it still says ' please update the initramfs manually '. is there a way i can build an ubuntu package which will do this automagically on installation ?
<mase_wk_> I would like to just install the images and have everything configured if that is possible?
<wrapster> persia: http://pastie.org/633028
<wrapster> i get this error..
<wrapster> the links file has these....
<wrapster> ### comments in the first line ;;;; <source path> <one whitespace> <dest path>
<persia> paste your link file
<wrapster> persia: (man)  A file named debian/package.links can list pairs of files.
<wrapster> what i had created was debian/links
<wrapster> let me see if this change works...
<wrapster> then i'll do a pastie.
<AnAnt> slangasek: Hello
<wrapster> persia: i still get this http://pastie.org/633028 error
<persia> And you still haven't pasted the call that gets the error :)
<wrapster> http://pastie.org/633064
<wrapster> and thats the links
<persia> And the dh_links line in debian/rules ?
<wrapster> one moment
<wrapster> http://pastie.org/633066
<persia> My, that's ugly.
<wrapster> y
<wrapster> i just started so could you tell me why?
<persia> For this package, I'd probably skip dh_link, and use a construction like that used for libintl.so
<wrapster> why
<wrapster> what difference does it make?
<wrapster> coz if you look at the rules thats exactly what i've done
<lifeless>         rm debian/$@/usr/lib/charset.alias
<lifeless>  rm debian/$@/usr/lib/libintl.so.8*
<lifeless> note that the second line is broken
<lifeless> its got a space, not a tab
<lifeless> thats not valid Make syntax
<persia> I think it's ugly because: 1) it uses cp rather than install, 2) it uses rm in build, rather than using it in clean or patching the build system, 3) It manually splits the package, rather than using dh_install, It forcibly strips the binaries, rather than using dh_strip (so there's no ddeb).
<persia> I could probably go on, but the short form is: it does it the hard way, and it's long.
<lifeless> however the breakage is the space-instead-of-tab
<wrapster> so i cannot use dh_link
<wrapster> in this case
<persia> Well, you can, but I wouldn't.  That said, if you fix the issue that lifeless pointed out, it ought work a bit better.
<wrapster> ok thanks
<persia> The reason I'd use a construction like that for libintl.so is because I think it's best practice to try to match the style of a rules file when modifying it: this tends to cause less confusion than mixing styles for the next person.
<wrapster> oh ok.
<wrapster> secondly.. there is one more question... now that i'm making some changes to the actual pkg.. i would like to give it a different version no.. how do i do it?
<wrapster> changelog?
<persia> Yes.  You'll want to update the changelog with `dch -i`.  This tries to guess the right next version for you.
<wrapster> just dch -i?
<persia> yes.  From within the package directory.
<wrapster> ok
<wrapster> supposing i want to write something that i've changed for references then i do dch -i it opens up the log there beside the * i write what i want and save?
<persia> wrapster, Yes.  Add more '*'s if youare doing more than one thing.  Try to stay within 70 characters.
<wrapster> how do i save it .. no save option.. should i first ^x then save or writeout?
<persia> Which editor launched?
<wrapster> nano
<wrapster> and the file is changelog.dch
<persia> I think you need ^O and then ^X (but I'm not much of a nano user).
<wrapster> ^o is writeout..
<wrapster> ok so it says file name to write to and gives me changelog.dch . shall i remove the .dch or keep it ?
<lifeless> wrapster: neither
<lifeless> save and quite the editor
<wrapster> lifeless:there is no save option so i will have to ^x it will save in the buffer but then again asks the same question to save in .dch file?
<wrapster> instead of this cant i manually edit the chagnelog and add what i want ?
<lifeless> wrapster: save and exit
<\sh> moins
<lifeless> wrapster: I don't know what forsaken editor you're using, so you'll have to figure that out yourself. I recommend you set EDITOR to whatever you normally use
<wrapster> how do i set the editor?
<lifeless> export EDITOR=vim
<lifeless> or whatever
<wrapster> lifeless: editor is not set at all dont know from where its picking up nano.... $EDITOR is null
<wrapster> if ther is a env var like that :(
<lifeless> wrapster: perhaps you should follow my recommendation then?
<lifeless> I have to say it scares me that you are changing core toolchain packages while you're still learning standard Linux facilities.
<wrapster> well... im learning ..
<sebner> hihu \sh , nice post yesterday :)
<\sh> sebner: depends...for me it was not nice to see brown scum on my ballot paper
<sebner> \sh: heh, how much % got they?
<sebner> *many
<\sh> sebner, not so many...but read this: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,650151,00.html
<sebner> \sh: yeah, it's pretty pretty stupid .. sick!
<directhex> it's in germanese :/
<sebner> directhex: google translator :P
<hyperair> hmm emacs-snapshot's broken
<hyperair> =(
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<sebner> sistpoty|work: I was bored so I already did the paperwork for xmoto, you just need to test *g* and ACK
<sistpoty|work> sebner: hm... let's see if it still has the "too difficult for sistpoty" bug :P
<sebner> sistpoty|work: heh, yep. I suggest a deep investigation *cough*
<sistpoty|work> haha
<sebner> sistpoty|work: gnahh, thx for the hint. changed
<sistpoty|work> sebner: no problem
<sebner> sistpoty|work: bah LP is soo buggy, I can't edit the bugreport
<sistpoty|work> sebner: heh, happened to me this weekend as well
<c_korn> this bug ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/423924
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423924 in malone "Entity-body was not a well-formed JSON document when updating bug description" [High,Triaged]
<wrapster> if i change the version number while installing i get an error saying it depends on some other software which is not of the same version..
<wrapster> whats that suppose to mean?
<mzz> wrapster: I can't parse your question (are you editing the .deb to change a version number in it while apt is reading it? that doesn't sound like a good idea :)
<wrapster> hmmm.. im changing the version no in the changelog file :)
<wrapster> not a good idea aye?
<mzz> I still can't parse your question
<mzz> the version number of the built source package is determined from the changelog, so adding a new version there is perfectly reasonable
<wrapster> mzz: thats exactly what I'm doing
<mzz> then perhaps it'd help if you gave specifics (what package, what version numbers, what error message)
<wrapster> ok..
<wrapster> one moment.
<wrapster> mzz: the dpkg-buildpackage comes through but dpkg -i gives me this http://pastie.org/633066
<mzz> wrapster: looks like gcc and cpp want to be kept in lockstep
<directhex> yeah. the versions need to match, so both packages need to be installed at once
<mzz> wrapster: so you need to build a matching version of cpp (if that's not built from the same source package) and install both at the same time
<mzz> wrapster: also, I strongly agree with earlier comments about the toolchain not being the best place to start experimenting
<mzz> wrapster: (not just because they're nontrivial packages, but mainly because you risk running into weird failure at a distance much later on because of changes you make now)
<randomaction> looks like dependency versioning is wrong, 4:4.2.3-1-1nexenta4 has "-1" twice in it
<wrapster> randomaction: yeah
<wrapster> shucks!!
<flithm1> hey all... is keyserver down?
<jpds> flithm1: Known issue.
<flithm1> thanks
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sebner
<fabrice_sp__> Hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello fabrice_sp__
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
<jtimberman> Not sure what else I need to do for LP bug 424576 - I posted a debdiff and diff.gz, do I need to upload to REVU? Also depends on libmixlib-config-ruby uupdate to 1.0.12, which can be synced from Debian Testing (LP bug 420674)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 424576 in chef "Chef new upstream version 0.7.10" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/424576
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420674 in libmixlib-config-ruby "Update libmixlib-config-ruby to new upstream version 1.0.12" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420674
<lamont> how does the freeze interact with new packages for universe?
<Laney> lamont: you need to get a feature freeze exception
<lamont> Laney: ok
<lamont> from motu, or RM?
<Laney> motu-release
<Laney> !ffe
<ubottu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<lamont> ta
<lamont> and I'll worry about it for post-beta, if not karmic+1
<irvingpop> MOTU team, quick packaging question:   I created a package under Jaunty,  it is compat level 7.    I cannot get it to build in Launchpad on Hardy,  because the compat level is too high.   Can I "downgrade" my compat level?
<james_w> irvingpop: yes, but it may require changes beyond just changing the number
<jpds> irvingpop: If the package doesn't use any debhelper 7 features, yes.
<james_w> irvingpop: possibly extensive changes
<irvingpop> Hardy is compat level 6, correct?
<Laney> hardy-backports has dh7
<irvingpop> Could that help me in a Launchpad PPA?
<Laney> I'm not sure if PPAs build against -backports
<irvingpop> When I required debhelper >= 7,  it wouldn't build on Hardy due to missing dependency
<irvingpop> I changed that to 6,  and changed the compat file to 6,  but it still won't build on Hardy.
<Laney> on a PPA?
<irvingpop> (clarification)  on the Hardy PPA build box
<Laney> you can either fix it to work on 6
<Laney> or upload the dh7 backport to the ppa
<cemc> Laney: you can select -backports as a dependency to ppa
<Laney> yeah if that works :)
<irvingpop> oh cool,  how can I do that?
<Laney> I don't really use ppas that much
<cemc> irvingpop: there should be a link 'Edit dependencies'
<Laney> oh, how cool is that?
<irvingpop> trying now
<Laney> selecting backports will work
<Laney> unless you use 7.0.50 features ;)
<wrapster> guys im back with one last problem please help.. like i was saying i created a few symlinks under debian/<pkg name>/path and installed the result of dpkg-buildpackage.. but its not reflected on my machine..
<wrapster> however if i open up debian/<pkg name>/path and see the files exist and a ls -l will display the source for that symlink as well
<wrapster> what could be worng?
<irvingpop> Laney and cemc,  thanks for the tip.   Resubmitting now
<irvingpop> I'll submit for sponsorship after the Karmic crazyness is over :)
<RoAkSoAx> kees, ping
<moldy> hi
<moldy> can i reply by e-mail to bug comments i receive from lp via e-mail? if so, is there anything i have to look out for?
<moldy> e.g. what will happen with attachments/pgp signatures?
<Elbrus> moldy: they are no problem
<Elbrus> If I am right, they get stripped
<RoAkSoAx> kees, i already have the security updates debdiff for nginx: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx/+bug/430064, however I do not know which kind of tests are required for the patched code or to test the vulnerability
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430064 in nginx "Security fix in recent release 0.6.39/DSA-1884-1" [High,In progress]
<kees> RoAkSoAx: sounds like jdstand covered that pretty well on #ubuntu-hardened.  If you can get the service up and serving files, that's a reasonable test that it still works.  :)
<RoAkSoAx> kees, cool :) I already brought the service up and it serves files, so I guess I'll just wait till someone of you reviews it :)
<kees> RoAkSoAx: ok, cool
<Darxus> "This bug was fixed in... mplayer (2:1.0~rc3+svn20090426-1ubuntu7) karmic; urgency=low"  That was just posted.  When is it likely to show up in the archives?
<ajmitch> Darxus: normally within an hour or two, but it's possible that updates are being let through manually since it's beta freeze time
<Darxus> ajmitch: Thanks.
<ajmitch> dtchen: OK, I've grabbed the alsa-driver snapshot, I just need to find the proper way to build it :)
<irvingpop> Quick devhelper question:   I want to convert my package from using init to Upstart.  What's the best way to do this AND remain compatible with Jaunty?
<irvingpop> I see that Upstart is in /etc/init on Karmic,  but in /etc/event.d on Jaunty.    Plus,  Jaunty's dh_installinit has no idea about Upstart
<zooko> Folks: I have a user asking why there aren't PowerPC .deb's of a few packages: http://allmydata.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2009-September/002930.html
<zooko> What's the answer?
<ChogyDan> zooko: I thought the powerpc support was ended
<zooko> Aha.  I'll google for that.
<RAOF> I'm pretty sure there are still some people who try to keep PPC up and running; TheMuso is one, from memory.
<zooko> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPC
<RAOF> But it's a port, no longer official, IIRC.
<ajmitch> zooko: are you sre there are missing dependencies there?
<ajmitch> packages.ubuntu.com may only be showing the official architectures
<ajmitch> launchpad shows them all, eg https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pycryptopp
<zooko> b#da
<zooko> oops
<zooko> Well, it sounds like I need to ask Danny O'Brien to hop into #ubuntu-motu.  I don't know what's going on.
<zooko> And I don't have an PPC machine to experiment with either.
<james_w> zooko: yeah, it seems they should have no problems
<james_w> zooko: if they are just looking at filenames they may be confused
<zooko> james_w: he wrote "The powerpc builds don't seem to be available at that repository  "
<zooko> > (yet?).
<james_w> ports.ubuntu.com is what they want to actually install it on powerpc
<james_w> (so they can get the architecture-specific dependencies)
<zooko> So I can post to the tahoe-dev mailing list saying to make sure they have ports.ubuntu.com in addition to http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ ?
<james_w> instead of I think
<james_w> "are running karmic" should cover it :-)
<james_w> let update-manager figure it out
<zooko> james_w: I didn't understand your last two sentences.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-29
<zooko> So, I think I'm going to advise the folks on tahoe-dev to add http://ports.ubuntu.com to their /etc/apt/sources.list if they want PowerPC binaries...
<RoAk> persia: ping
<mase_wk_> morn all
<RoAk> TheMuso: ping
<jdong> haha ok well that makes btrfs / work... though not in the prettiest of ways.
<jdong> yay diverting grub-probe.
<mase_wk_> i'm having some problems building a kernel package on 8.04 which will automatically run update-initramfs. I am passing the --initrd flag to make-kpkg but that does not seem to be the way to do it. Can anyone point me in the right directi on ?
<tgm4883> in the files in debian/ can I do release specific files such as postinst.karmic?
<StevenK> tgm4883: Nope.
<tgm4883> bummer
<tgm4883> thanks StevenK
<slangasek> AnAnt: you were pinging me yesterday?  More effective if you say what you're looking for, saves a round trip...
<fabrice_sp> dyfet, ping
<fabrice_sp> just to know if you're still working on bug #438450 (still in Progress, but debdiff attached)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438450 in sqliteodbc "On arm, at least, builds with libsqlite0 instead of libsqlite3" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438450
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, about Bug #424576. Is it mandatory a second motu-release ack, as per the FFe process? Or as delegate, you acked it twice?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 424576 in chef "Chef new upstream version 0.7.10" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/424576
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: The latter.  It's approved.
<fabrice_sp> ok. will have a motu look then. Thanks!
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> Good morning dholbach !
<dholbach> hiya fabrice_sp
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, do your ack to chef extend to a required dependency? Bug #420674 is required to have chef working correctly. Or it's better to subscribe motu-release for a specific FFe?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420674 in libmixlib-config-ruby "Update libmixlib-config-ruby to new upstream version 1.0.12" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420674
<_Andrew> How do you make a build-depends package optional
<_Andrew> Anyone know?
<Amaranth> _Andrew: optional as in only for a certain arch?
<Amaranth> Otherwise you can't
<_Andrew> yes
<Amaranth> ah, iirc it's libgtk2.0-dev [amd64]
<_Andrew> So if it is lpia it shouldn't use a certain package
<Amaranth> I don't remember how to do "all but amd64" or whatever though
<_Andrew> ah
<Amaranth> Perhaps [!lpia]?
<_Andrew> ok thanks I'll give it a try
<maxb> [!amd64] iirc
<Hobbsee> yeah, it's that
<_Andrew> oh ok
<_Andrew> Actually one more question
<_Andrew> What's the best way to detect the arch in the rules file. Because I just remembered I have to make sure it doesn't set the flag too
<Amaranth> _Andrew: dpkg --print-architecture
<maxb> shouldn't you use DEB_BUILD/HOST_ARCH or whatever for that?
<Amaranth> Probably
<Amaranth> DEB_HOST_ARCH is safer
 * RAOF remembers reading something about these variables, but can't remember what.  Maybe the last couple of months worth of debian-devel archives will have something interesting?
<_Andrew> So..  if ( DEB_HOST_ARCH == "lpia")  ?
<_Andrew> oh, actually that's no problem looks like I was wrong, no need to set the compiler flag
<_Andrew> Thanks for the help then
<wrapster> I get this msg... after dpkg-buildpackaged.. Failed to sign .dsc and .changes file
<wrapster> How do i sign them?
<av`> wrapster, debsign -kKEYID *.dsc
<wrapster> ok...
<YokoZar> wrapster: make sure you have the GPG key for the email address that's at the top of the changelog too
<wrapster> ok
<moldy> hi
<moldy> sometimes (depending on bug state?), lp shows a state change menu where you can change state and comment in one step. but for "new" bugs, it seems you have to take 2 steps...
<wrapster> YokoZar: while dpkg-buildpackage itself i specified -kKEYID yet it says it cannot sign
<wrapster> KEYID is a 8digit alphanumeric right?
<wrapster> or the PGP sign?
<YokoZar> not sure
<wrapster> hmm
<directhex> wrapster, yes, KEYID is the 8-digit hex value of your key
<ripps> I need some help, I'm trying learn some basic debelper without cdbs, and I'm trying to create a library pacakge for libmpdclient2. What's the proper method of creating a -dev package?
<ripps> fyi, I use dh-make to make the template for /debian
<joaopinto> ripps, there is nothing like looking into an existing one :)
<joaopinto> ripps, also check: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<ripps> Do I have to manually do the installing of the -dev files, or does automake allow me to install some of that automatically?
<joaopinto> I am a bit lost on your question, the files that you need to package into the -dev are usually built from the regular app build process,
<joaopinto> as for the installation, that depends on the app build system, and how you layout your build and install rules
<joaopinto> ripps, packagning libraries is not an easy way to learn packaging :)
<ripps> joaopinto: I'm not just doing this for learning, I need to make a library package for a team ppa, several packages now use a new library that hasn't been packaged before.
<joaopinto> ah ok :P
<ripps> But, I figured I'd take this oppurtunity to steb away from cdbs and level up my packaging skills
<maxb> The proper method of creating a -dev package is much the same as creating any other single-source-multiple-binary packaging, other than knowing which files belong in which binary package
<maxb> doesn't dh-make give you a pretty thorough template?
<maxb> (you ran dh-make in library mode, yes?)
<ripps> maxb: yeah, except it made an empty package. So I had to uncomment dh_install, and it started working, but it's saying there was no files in /usr/include for the -dev package. And I know that isn't right, and I just wanted to know I was supposed to manually add it the rules, or I just screwed up something in the building process
<maxb> you should probably take a moment to read 'man dh_install'
<maxb> Seems a bit silly that it would be commented out in the generated rules file, if *.install files are part of the example
<ripps> maxb: okay, by default, the dh-make library template tries to make two seperate packages, using *.install to define them, which implies the use of dh_install. However, when it creates the rules file, it doesn't uncomment the dh_install
<ripps> I smell bug
<maxb> you could file a bug if you felt like it
<ripps> So, I guess I'm going to have to add several commands to move various files to their proper debian/tmp/* directories
<maxb> are you?
<maxb>     $(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp install
<maxb> says my template
<maxb> should take care of it all
<ripps> I did that, but it didn't seem to install any of the the -dev files
<maxb> better figure out why your Makefiles are broken then :-)
<ripps> The developer used automake1.10
<ripps> the Makefile.am is unglodly long and confusing, wanna take a look?
 * maxb wonders how obscure this software is that I can't find it on Google
<ripps> maxb: it's only availible at git.musicpd.org
<ripps> http://git.musicpd.org/cgit/master/libmpdclient.git/
<maxb> doesn't look overly horrendous to me :-)
<mok0> maxb: I agree
<mok0> ripps: the author has created some local targets that's all
<ripps> mok0: ah, where? I'll create a patch.
<mok0> ripps: you don't need to patch AFAICS
<mok0> ripps: what's the problem? I don't have the scrollback
<ripps> mok0: when using the dh-make library template, it doesn't install any of the files into debian/tmp, despite the fact that everything else setup to use it. Uncommenting dh_install fixed it, but it fails, because it can't find any of the files necesary for the -dev.instal pacakge
<maxb> although I notice that the upstream has apparently completely changed their buildsystem between the last release tag and current head
<mok0> ripps: Ah dh_make....
<ripps> maxb: I'm aware, and I'm trying to compensate
<mok0> ripps: Here is what I like to say about dh_make:
<maxb> basing on what? the tag or head?
<mok0> DON'T USE IT!
<mok0> :-)
<mok0> ripps: did you try using cdbs?
<ripps> don't use dh-make?
<mok0> ripps: right, it sux bigtime
<ripps> mok0: I'm alreay familiar with cdbs, but I'm trying to learn some basic debhelper
<maxb> eww. cdbs.
<maxb> :-)
<maxb> Here's what I like to say about cdbs:    DON'T USE IT!   :-)
<_Andrew> lol
<mok0> ripps: if you're lucky, an autotools project can be installed with a 3 line cdbs file
<ripps> if push comes to shove, I'll just use cdbs, but I keep hearing people say that dh7 should work without cdbs
<mok0> maxb: why?
<mok0> The dh_make templates are full of bugs, and the multi-arch template doesn't work at all
<mok0> dh_make templates puzzled me a lot when I was first learning packaging, I thought there was something wrong with my thinking... turns out now I understand it, that the templates are screwy
<maxb> cdbs look like it should make things easy, but sooner or later you end up needing to become an uber-guru in Makefile syntax to figure out what on earth it's doing
<mok0> maxb: true, if something out-of-the ordinary needs to be done, you're on your own
<mok0> maxb: however, examining /usr/share/cdbs/1/* usually clears up any problems
<mok0> maxb: Fact is, you can do anything with cdbs
<maxb> yeah.... but the more out of the norm you are, the more of cdbs you chuck away and do it yourself :-)
<mok0> maxb: but sometimes the rules file becomes as long as the straight dh_* calls, and then it's not worth it
<joaopinto> IMHO cdbs is cleaner for general build cases
<mok0> joaopinto: exactly
<maxb> That was cdbs's big win, but dh7 competes rather nicely on that stage
<ripps> I hear there's a method to make a rules file with one command using dh7
<mok0> joaopinto: ... and less likely to get you in trouble with the REVUers
<mok0> ripps: there is
<mok0> #/usr/bin/make -Bf
<mok0> %:
<mok0> 	dh $@
<joaopinto> debhelper seems better for complex builds, because it's already complex for general builds :P
<mok0> joaopinto: lol
<ripps> dh $@
<ripps> heh, I'll try that and see if it works
<mok0> ripps: you need the line before too
<mok0> ripps: "%:"
<ripps> I know, I found the example with all 3 lines for the file
<maxb> ah, I've never seen make -B used like that before
<mok0> maxb: it's part of the sneaky secret
<ripps> damn, it still aborts
<mok0> maxb: IMHO, cdbs is easier... no perl spaghetti to understand
<ripps> dh_install: libmpdclient-dev missing files (usr/include/*), aborting
<mok0> ripps: a bug in your .install file
<ripps> why doesn't it install the include files
<mok0> ripps: because they are not where you say they are
 * maxb wonders if ripps has forgotten to ./configure --prefix=/usr
<ripps> oh, I'm so used to cdbs handling that for me, I suppose it never occured to me
<mok0> ripps: you realize, of course, that cdbs uses dh_* behind the scenes?
<ripps> geez, this isn't about what's more efficient or easier, I'm trying make this into a learning experience. Never hurts to have more knowledge
<mok0> ripps: kk
<maxb> ripps: btw, I seem to have muddled together a working packaging whilst we've been discussing it
<ripps> pastebinit, good to take a look at good example files
<maxb> http://paste.ubuntu.com/281157/
<ripps> I can just delete the /usr/share/pkgconfig line fromt the -dev.install, right?
<maxb> well sure, it's not installing anything there
<maxb> I'm not 100% clear on the difference betweek lib/pkgconfig and share/pkgconfig
<ripps> well, dhmake does a nice job of setting up a template for all the files in debian/, but it just sucks at the rules file.
<ripps> lol, awesome, my rules is only 5 lines
<ripps> it works!
<ripps> had to do an override, though
<maxb> what for, ooi?
<ripps> http://pastebin.com/f34acec6a
<ripps> so that it would run autogen with --prefix=/usr
<maxb> hm
<ripps> now that's zen... packages look good too
<maxb> usually the orig tarball would come with autogen stuff pregenerate
<maxb> d
<maxb> but as you're packaging from git, I guess that's a reasonable stratecgy
<ripps> I don't, because since my is daily-ppa-bot built, sometimes new files need to be cleaned and regenerated, so it's just easier to run autogen every time I build
<ripps> keeps things cleaner from my end
<ripps> especially since I backport across several versions of ubuntu, and each one has different versions of libtool, automake, etc.
<ripps> *sigh*, now I just need to finish the documentation in debian/
<maxb> remember that hardy doesn't have a debhelper that supports overrides
<maxb> and make sure your control file build-depends on debhelper (>= 7.0.50) to reflect this
<wrapster> after i changed the changelog im getting this http://pastie.org/634688
<maxb> yes?
<maxb> so I guess you told it a keyid you don't have the secret key for
<ripps> maxb: don't worry, I already have updated debhelper and other files in dependency ppa
<maxb> There must be so many backports of debhelper in various ppas :-)
<maxb> I have my own
<ripps> yeah, my build-depends ppa has only 2 packages I made and around a dozen I've copied from various other ppas
<wrapster> maxb: here is what i've did... http://pastie.org/634698
<maxb> It is almost always incredibly incorrect to be generating a key as root
<dyfet> fabrice_sp: sorry missed your ping...?earlier?  the debdiff finishes #438450
<mok0> Hrmmph, pull-lp-source stopped working
<fabrice_sp> dyfet, np: I saw it was not the right timezone :-) You should have put the bug report as confirmed, then
<fabrice_sp> I'll do it for you, anyway
<dyfet> fabrice_sp: sorry. you are correct...I should have changed it to confirmed :)
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: It did not apply to that.  I'll have a look.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, ok. Thansk :-)
<fabrice_sp> dyfet, done. This way, some sponsor will have a look ;-)
<dyfet> fabrice_sp: it was late, and I missed that...
<fabrice_sp> dyfet, np ;-)
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Approved.
<fabrice_sp> dyfet, do not add a patch system when Debian maintainer has done changes directly in the source. Also, report to Debian, to see if they are willing to adopt the change :-)
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, thanks!. I'll check it then.
<dyfet> fabrice_sp: ah...ok
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<highvoltage> hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi highvoltage
<mok0> What do you do when upstream steals your work?
<Laney> steals?
<mok0> Laney: yeah, I wrote a manpage for a package, and in a subsequent release, upstream has changed a few bytes, and removed the accreditation
<Laney> presumably they can't remove your copyright attribution
<ara> hello #ubuntu-motu, want to help testing some Karmic beta images? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<mok0> Laney: there was only the usual blurp about who wrote the manpage in the AUTHORS section, no copyright mentioned there
<Laney> mok0: I'm sure if you ask them nicely to put it back they wil
<Laney> l
<mok0> Laney: I sent him patches including the manpage for inclusion in his distribution
<ripps> Okay, I'm trying to build my *.changes files for my libmpdclient with my ppa-bot, but I keep getting something that's interfering.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/281213/
<mok0> Laney: I did write to him about a week ago, no reply
<mok0> Laney: I am just wondering whether I should patch it back in the package
<Laney> that would look rather odd
<mok0> It would, that's why I am rather annoyed
<mok0> ripps: can you paste the part of the Makefile that's being executed?
<mok0> ripps: ah I see it now
<iulian> Err.  What is wrong with Launchpad today?  I've got loads of OOPSes.  Error ID: OOPS-1368F1334
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1368F1334
<mok0> ripps: that construction in line 6 is wrong
<ripps> mok0: I didn't make it, dh $@ did.
<mok0> ripps: is dh creating some kind of weird file name with a space ?
<ripps> *shrugs*
<ripps> fta is the one who wrote ppa-bot, I know it uses bzr-builddeb, but other than that, i don't really understand the finer points on how it works
<mok0> ripps: where does that ">= 2.0.0~git" ... etc come from?
<ripps> mok0: that's generated from some git-orig-sourc: stuff
<mok0> ripps: hmm
<mok0> ripps: looks like you need to talk to fta
<ripps> mok0: unfortunely, he always seems to be out or asleep when I'm active :/
<mok0> ripps: hehe
<c_korn> where can I find the reason why a package has been dropped in Ubuntu ?
<c_korn> this package only exists in dapper: http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/knowledgetree
<mok0> c_korn: there must be a bug in LP
<ripps> mok0: woot, adding a blan override_dh_clean: fixed it... something musth be up with it. the ppa-bot might be using a variable with the same name as the dh_auto_clean wrapper uses.
<ripps> s/blan/blank/
<mok0> ripps: sounds plaucible
<mok0> plausible rather
<geser> c_korn: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/knowledgetree/+publishinghistory: (From Debian) RoM; unused and unmaintained
<sistpoty|work> nooo, they removed the knowledge tree. No more fruits of knowledge for me :(
<sistpoty|work> *g*
<mok0> It wasn't even removed, it was autoremoved
<sistpoty|work> this doesn't make my joke better though :P
<mok0> Au contraire, it makes it spooky
<sistpoty|work> heh
<mok0> Heh, take a look at this: http://www.wired.com/culture/education/magazine/17-09/st_sinmaps
<mok0> OT sorry
<c_korn> hm, currently there is no one active in #cmake. so maybe someone here know how to add a library to be added to the linker with cmake. (in make I would just define LDFLAGS="-lc"). there is something called TARGET_LINK_LIBRARIES in cmake but then I would have to find out each target. I just want to add a library to each linker call and let -Wl,--as-needed do the rest
<ripps> mok0: I give up, I'm switching to cdbs. It's never given me any issues with my ppa-bot yet.
<mok0> ripps: I told ya' :-P
<schierbeck> Hi there! I'm trying to package an extremely simple app consisting of 1 shell script -- is there a dead-easy way to do it? The only dependency is "git-core"
<schierbeck> It's mainly the rules file I'm nervous about
<slytherin> schierbeck: It depends on the way you want to do it - right way or easy way?
<schierbeck> slytherin: they can't be the same? :-)
<schierbeck> slytherin: I'd rather avoid autotools
<slytherin> schierbeck: autotools will not come into picture if you are not using them.
<schierbeck> slytherin: perfect! what's the right way then?
<joaopinto> schierbeck, a common cdbs rules will do
<joaopinto> it's a 2 lines debian/rules, assuming you just need to install the shell script somewhere
<slytherin> schierbeck: simplest way will be to have blank 'build' target. and 'binary-indep' target will just include one dh_install command to instal the file in appropriate place.
<joaopinto> slytherin, that is complex compared to cdbs :)
<slytherin> joaopinto: I know. While I love CDBS, not everyone does. :-)
<schierbeck> I've used CDBS a long time ago, so I think it's alright -- which two lines do I need?
<joaopinto> #!/usr/bin/make -f
<joaopinto> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<joaopinto> and that's all, if you need to install, just create a debian/packagename.install with the list of files to install according to dh_install syntax
<joaopinto> source_file target_install_dir
<schierbeck> e.g. git-ignore bin ?
<schierbeck> (my package is called git-ignore)
<joaopinto> source_script_path usr/bin ?
<schierbeck> joaopinto: can I include usr?
<schierbeck> shouldn't I use some env var?
<joaopinto> schierbeck, no, install targets are full pathnames
<joaopinto> .deb contents are extracted into the root dir
<schierbeck> ok, so just "git-ignore /usr/bin"
<joaopinto> right
<joaopinto> don't forget build-depends on cdbs
<schierbeck> joaopinto, slytherin: ok, i'll try to see if it works! thanks!
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work
<ulysses__> greetings
<schierbeck> joaopinto, slytherin: it works like a charm! thanks, guys! https://edge.launchpad.net/~dasch/+archive/ppa/+packages
<joaopinto> schierbeck, yw :)
<iulian> Hi bddebian.
<bddebian> Heya iulian
<RobOakes> Is there anyone who could help a newbie packager figure out digital signing and PPAs?
<ScottK> RobOakes: #launchpad is probably a better channel for that.
<RainCT> RobOakes: Maybe, just ask
<RobOakes> I've got a python source package and was able to successfully get it to compile into an unsigned package using the steps in the Python Tutorial.
<RobOakes> dpk-buildpackage -us -uc
<RobOakes> I'm not sure what options I need to use so that the package will be signed and ready to upload to a PPA.
<RainCT> RobOakes: Use "debuild -S -sa" (without the "-sa" if it's an update of a package that's already there) instead of dpkg-buildpackage. That'll take care of the signing, as long as your name and address is in the newest entry in debian/changelog and matches an existing private key on your system
<RobOakes> RainCT, is there a way to specify which private key it should use?
<RainCT> RobOakes: yes, -k<your email address or key ID>
<RobOakes> Okay.  That seems doable.
<RobOakes> So the command would look like: debuild -S -sa -k <Key ID>
<RainCT> Yes (if it doesn't try removing the space after the "-k"). (But don't leave stuff with other people's name as uploader if you have changed it. You can get your nam into the changelog by updating it with "dch", as long as you've defined the DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL environment variables correctly).
<ScottK> RobOakes: No space between the -k and the keyid
<RobOakes> Thanks.  I am updating the change log and putting a tes together now.
<RobOakes> Since I know absolutely nothing about ssl, can a package be signed using a PGP key rather than an SSH key?
<wrapster> is there a way to check the progress of dpkg-buildpackage?
<jdong> it's in progress until you get your shell back.
<jdong> but no, more information other than that is buildsys dependent
<RainCT> RobOakes: Package are signed with PGP keys, not SSH ones.
<jdong> cmake is nice enough to have a percentage display. Otherwise, take a good guess :)
<wrapster> jdong: hmm
<lfaraone> If I have a package that uses the python cdbs rules, and a new upstream release contains more than one setup.py (one tarball contains separate KDE and GTK frontends), how can I have cdbs put each in its own binary package?
<RobOakes> Thanks RainCT, does the type of encryption on the PGP key matter
<fabrice_sp> RainCT, can you give me advocation powers in REVU?
<sbeattie> is there a motu-sru around who can ack or nack the zsync SRU in bug 420931?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420931 in zsync "zsync crashes with SIGSEGV when updating dvds" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420931
<slytherin> anyone using moovida here on karmic?
<wrapster> i was able to build binutils successfully with a few changes but they were only reflected in the debian/<pkg>/path/to/changes when i dpkg -i the resulting .deb i was not able to find them?
<wrapster> how is it possible? can anyone please help?
<wrapster> could anyone answer my question pls
<joaopinto> wrapster, are you doing the changes prior to the dh_install call ?
<wrapster> joaopinto: well this rules file does not have a dh_install cmd at all..
<wrapster> guessing its picked up from somewhere
<joaopinto> hum, it's cdbs ?
<joaopinto> hello masterkernel, not sure you recevied the message that kernelcheck is no longer able to retrieve the latest kernel source
<wrapster> joaopinto: so how do i go ahead and resolve it.. ive tried all i know.. nothing works... im a newbie as well...a bad combo
<wrapster> :(
<masterkernel> joaopinto: i did get it, it's just that with school and all i have no time to create a patch. i'll be working on one in increments in the following month
<joaopinto> ok, np :)
<wrapster> joaopinto: what can i do now?
<c_korn> wrapster: pastebin the debian/rules please
<wrapster> c_korn: its a 780lines file
<c_korn> what ???
<wrapster> i tried doing it but gave it up
<wrapster> yeah
<c_korn> please pastebin it, now I am interested
<wrapster> c_korn: hee hee... ok
<wrapster> will let you know once its done
<wrapster> c_korn: http://pastie.org/635497
<wrapster> c_korn: here you go
<wrapster> c_korn: now can you tell me where the heck if i make my changes will it work? and why?
<wrapster> not anywhere else?
<wrapster> i was making my changed in the build-indep: by creatating another dependency...
<c_korn> holy ...
<c_korn> $(install_script) debian/binutils.postinst $(d_bin)/DEBIAN/postinst
<c_korn> this debian/rules does not make use of debhelper scripts
<wrapster> yeah..
<wrapster> so how do i understand where to make my changes?
<wrapster> im rusty with scripts that use debhelper itself.. in such cases ... thats all :(
<wrapster> could i append another dependency to PHONY and define rule for it hoping it will work?
<wrapster> what i want to do is essentially to create symlinks
<c_korn> wrapster: try to add dh_link in line 391
<wrapster> dh_link there and debian/binutils.lists (<source path> <dest path> )
<wrapster> is it so?
<c_korn> wrapster: it is debian/binutils.links
<wrapster> ok... sorry typo
<wrapster> 391 as in --> after the :# Remove windres manpages OR in place of it?
<wrapster> i mean below : or above it to make it independent
<c_korn> wrapster: line 391 is empty. put it there
<c_korn> (I am referring to your pastebin)
<wrapster> c_korn: thats what i'm looking at 391 is not empty
<wrapster> 390:: # Remove windres manpages
<wrapster> 391:rm -f $(d_bin)/usr/share/man/man1/windres.1
<c_korn> wrapster: http://pastie.org/635497 line 391
<c_korn> the line before: touch install-stamp
<wrapster> thats 399 even in the pastie link you provided...
<wrapster> :)
<wrapster> ok will do that..
<c_korn> wrapster: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/26046/screenshot_001_x2BOgO.png
<wrapster> wow.. thats interesting..
<wrapster> anyway i've done it at that place itself.. thanks for your efforts in making me understand.. now i only hope it works
<wrapster> the build was successful but there was no change ...
<wrapster> debian/binutils has nothing created in it
<LLStarks> is the ubuntu keyserver down?
<ryanakca> LLStarks: I seem to recall someone mentioning it was a known issue yesterday. Try using a different one, they all mirror each other.
<ryanakca> RainCT: Thanks for signing
<RainCT> ryanakca: no problem :)
<RoAk> persia: ping
<ajmitch> dtchen: thanks, alsa-driver snapshot is working
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Is solang a bugfix only update?
<DktrKranz> no, but it has an approved FFe
<DktrKranz> too late already?
<ScottK> DktrKranz: No.  I didn't see an FFe mentioned in the changelog, but if it has one, that's fine.
<DktrKranz> mh, I probably forgot to mention, but the listed bug is the FFe
<ScottK> Accepted it.  Thanks.
<DktrKranz> thanks you you :)
<ScottK> No problem.
 * sistpoty falls into bed now... gn8 everyone
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-30
<doctormo> I need a packager who can do start up scripts and varius other system niggles.
<wrapster> i created a gpg key on my local box but most of my work deals with ssh'ing to a remote box and building pkg there.. is there a way i can export my public.key or do something so that i can sign it using my KEYID
<doctormo> wrapster: Can you not just create a seperate key for your remote box and link it back?
<wrapster> link it back?
<lifeless> wrapster: you can copy the packages back and sign with debsign
<lifeless> wrapster: or you can create a detached signing subkey
<doctormo> Hey lifeless
<lifeless> hi doctormo
<wrapster> hmm thats fine but i dont want to shuffle around too much...
<wrapster> lifeless: how do i do that?
<lifeless> wrapster: do which
<wrapster> detached signing key
<wrapster> i want to use my existing key.. dont want too many things hanging around
<lifeless> rsync remotebox:PACKAGE* .; debsign *.changes
<wrapster> ok
<wgrant> lifeless, wrapster: See also debsign -r
<ajmitch> wgrant: is that the same as debrsign?
<StevenK> No, wrong way
<lifeless> kindof of the reverse
<StevenK> debsign -r is you have your key remotely, and the .dsc and .changes locally
<StevenK> debrsign is you have your key locally and the .dsc and .changes remote
<wgrant> Er.
<wgrant> debsign -r has the key locally.
<ajmitch> I don't use either method very often
<StevenK> Doh
<doctormo> Does anyone know how to list files on a system that were not installed by packages?
<StevenK> cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list > all ; find . -type f > files ; diff -u all files # maybe?
<StevenK> Er, fine /
 * StevenK gives up
<lifeless> doctormo: no; uhm the debrestore stuff probably does
<zooko> There used to be a tool in debian named something like "cruft" to do that.
<zooko> Many years ago.
<wrapster> StevenK: i think debrsign is what i want.. the key i have that is machine that generated the gpg is local.. while the dsc and changes file are on the machine that i ssh into!!!
<doctormo> zooko: cruft is a real package
<lifeless> wrapster: thats debsign -r
<Quintasan> jcastro: I have submitted my application for sponsor ship, could you check if it arrived?
<nixternal> dho
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> Hey dholbach!
<dholbach> hiya fabrice_sp
<fabrice_sp> is persia the right guy to ping to add me to the u-u-s team?
<persia> Yep
<andol> Regarding bug #128242. As there is an agreement with the Debian Maintainer about sticking to the stable branch of rdiff-backup. Is that enough to consider it as fix commited/released?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 128242 in rdiff-backup "minorest revision number change breaks network protocol" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/128242
<fabrice_sp_> thanks persia! :-)
<wrapster> why would link: not work here http://pastie.org/635497
<LucidFox> How do I switch from edge.launchpad.net to plain launchpad.net?
<LucidFox> I have logged out, but it still redirects me to edge
<andol> LucidFox: Still member of the team LP beta testers?
<LucidFox> Ah, it depends on *that*!
<LucidFox> But still, I'm logged out. Does it bind to IP or something?
<andol> LucidFox: Well, that or some cookie hiding somewhere. *guessing*
<wrapster> guys can anyone tell me why the pastie is not working? im a newbie here
<wgrant> LucidFox: You probably logged out of edge but not production.
<wgrant> LucidFox: Why do you want to switch to plan launchpad.net? If you just want to do it for a couple of hours, hit the 'Disable edge redirect' link at the bottom of any edge page.
<wgrant> But that probably won't be there if you're logged out on edge.
<wgrant> So go to launchpad.net and either log out or click the 'Disable redirect' button.
<LucidFox> Okay, opened the plain site in a different browser
<LucidFox> I just needed it for the OpenID links, recently I've become unable to use Launchpad as a delegated OpenID provider for my domain.
<wgrant> I saw a bug on that.
<wgrant> Unfortunately, recent versions of the code in question are proprietary.
<LucidFox> :|
<alourie> hello
<alourie> I need an advice please
<alourie> I've been splitting a wordpress package into 2
<alourie> I edited the control, rules, dirs and install files, and pdebuild seems to pass.
<alourie> How should I proceed with this?
<alourie> thanks
<jmarsden> alourie: "pdebuild seems to pass" ... if it creates the expected binary .deb files, then you can install and test them, that would be usual the next step.
<alourie> jmarsden: yes, it does create them
<persia> dpkg --contents might help to determine if it creates the expected binaries.
<alourie> no, sorry
<alourie> it creates dsc files
<jmarsden> alourie: What exact command did you use to tell your pbuilder to create the .deb files ?
<alourie> jmarsden: I just ran 'pdebuild'
<alourie> and it created dsc file
<jmarsden> And it ran with no errors, but created no .deb files at all?
<alourie> jmarsden: yes
<jmarsden> Where are you looking for the .deb files?  Have you used pdebuild successfully in the past?
<alourie> jmarsden: well, I was looking for .deb files in the same directory as .dsc created
<alourie> but maybe that's not right...
<jmarsden> man pdebuild    the default buildresult directory is not .. it is /var/cache/pbuilder/result/
<alourie> jmarsden: right :-) and there's a deb file
<jmarsden> Are the missing .deb files in there?  OK.
<alourie> jmarsden: so now I just install them?
<jmarsden> Sure, or as persia said you can use dpkg --contents on them to see what they contain, if you prefer.
<jmarsden> Basically they are now ready for you to test.
<alourie> ok, I will try to install
<slytherin> is this bug likely to be caused because of problematic video drivers? - bug 422807
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 422807 in moovida "No icons on home screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/422807
<Elbrus> My package (winff; I am the Debian maintainer) has an updated translation and two new translations. What is the prefered way of getting them into Karmic? Creating a debdiff and creating a bug with it attached (easy for me)? Or some launchpad way I haven't seen yet.
<slytherin> Elbrus: are those translations in some Debian version already?
<Elbrus> nope, not yet
<Elbrus> but upstream also created a new version
<Elbrus> and as we are past feature freeze
<slytherin> Elbrus: then debdiff against the version in karmic is the best way forward.
<Elbrus> I thought just getting the translations in
<Elbrus> ok
<Elbrus> do I need to subscribe any group in particular after filling the bug?
<Elbrus> motu sponsors?
<slytherin> yes, the team name is ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<slacker_nl> hello to all
<slacker_nl> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/guessnet/+bug/433677 << debian has just released a new version of guessnet, would that make karmic?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433677 in guessnet "Unknown pcap error" [Undecided,New]
<slytherin> slacker_nl: is that a new version or revision?
<slacker_nl> slytherin: it includes the fix for the bug plus removes waproamd from suggests, so.. revision?
<slacker_nl> slytherin: + new upstream release
<slacker_nl> slytherin:  * New upstream release
<slacker_nl>       + increased pcap timeout in netwatcher.cc. Closes: #529882.
<slacker_nl>         Thanks to Dietz PrÃ¶pper and Vincent Lefevre for digging this out.
<slacker_nl>    * Removed waproamd from suggests. Closes: #509394.
<slacker_nl> oops, wrong paste
<slacker_nl> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=529882
<ubottu> Debian bug 529882 in guessnet "guessnet-ifupdown fails to identify network" [Normal,Closed]
<slytherin> slacker_nl: The version in karmic is 0.49-1 and the one in debian is 0.50-2. So it will need freeze exception
<slacker_nl> slytherin: would be nice if it could, but I guess it could do no harm leaving as is
<slacker_nl> slytherin: if it is provided in -updates after the release..
<slytherin> slacker_nl: If you can backport the fixes from upstream to 0.49 version then you can find someone to upload it.
<slacker_nl> slytherin: could do that (although fairly new to debian packaging)
<slacker_nl> slytherin: lemme see what I can do
<_Andrew> hi guys
<_Andrew> http://pastebin.com/d63f7449c
<_Andrew> Is this correct for the rules file? I've never done an if statement in one before
<_Andrew> Can't even find an example of one
<persia> _Andrew, Consider instead modifying nvidia-cg-toolkit so that it builds a binary for lpia (just use the i386 binaries from nvidia: they are compatible).
<_Andrew> oh really?
<_Andrew> On lpia only machines?
<_Andrew> Well that's made things simpler
<persia> That said, it's probably worth just disabling it in every case if you're planning an upload to Ubuntu, as nvidia-cg-toolkit cannot be built on the buildds (requires build-time internet access).
<_Andrew> I already packaged it
<persia> Again?
<_Andrew> yes
<persia> There's an nvidia-cg-toolkit source package in multiverse.
<_Andrew> But it requires internet access
<persia> Yes, but anything else violates the license nvidia provides saying that one can't redistribute the downloaded tarballs except as binary modules to work with an operating system.
<_Andrew> No it doesn't there is a linux exception
<persia> So, unless the license changed, or I'm misinterpreting it, you can't redistribute the tarballs.
<persia> If that's changed, then Great!  Keep at it!
<persia> But check the license carefully.
<_Andrew> Yes I already submitted a big about it to both debian and ubuntu about a year ago
<_Andrew> a bug about it**
<persia> Oh, so there was a change?  Cool.  It's been more than a year since I last checked that license.
<slacker_nl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff < step 4, is that correct information for motu?
<persia> slacker_nl, There are many ways to generate a debdiff, but that also works.
<_Andrew> Are there any examples of an if statement in the rules file?
<slacker_nl> persia: i ment, the e-mail for the maintainer field :)
<slacker_nl> is that correct
<persia> slacker_nl, Yes.
<slacker_nl> persia: k, thnx
<persia> _Andrew, Well, it's correct make syntax, but it won't work the way you want.
<persia> In makefiles, there are two different ways that conditionals are sometimes used: make conditionals and shell conditionals.
<persia> In general, it's best to use make conditionals to set variables, and shell conditionals within a rule (although there are exceptions).
<_Andrew> Actually if lpia is compatible with i386 binaries what I will do is if it's lpia copy files from a specific folder
<persia> lpia is compatible with the ia32 instruction set.  Whether binaries are compatible is more complex, and probably requires some ABI analysis.
<_Andrew> oh : /
<_Andrew> Perhaps it's better just to disable it then.
<_Andrew> But actually I want the cg toolkit for i386 and amd64
<slytherin> _Andrew: You need to use logical constructs for make. The one you are using is for shell. Check this http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-java/trunk/java-gnome/debian/rules?view=markup
<_Andrew> That's perfect. Thanks
<sistpoty|work> _Andrew: you can actually set up a lpia chroot on an x86 box
<slytherin> _Andrew: so you will have to use - ifneq (,$(filter $(DEB_HOST_ARCH), lpia)) - This means if the arch is lpia.
<persia> slytherin, Is that going to work inside a rule?  I usually use that sort of thing only to set variables, and use the (possibly empty) variable inside the rule.
<slacker_nl> slytherin: i've created a debdiff for the fix of that bug
<slytherin> persia: You have a valid question. And I have never used it inside a rule. :-)
<slytherin> slacker_nl: attach it to the bug and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<persia> Inside rules, I usually see the use of shell conditionals (but these need to be tab-indented, and one needs to take care to have the entire conditional processed as a single call from make)
<persia> _Andrew, I'd recommend setting a new variable, say CG_EXTA_FLAGS, to either "--disable-cg" or "" using make conditionals, and then referencing ${CG_EXTRA_FLAGS} in your ./configure call.
<slacker_nl> slytherin: will do, thnx
<persia> (or just enabling lpia, but I'm not sure how many lpia+nvidia devices exist, so that may not be important)
<_Andrew> persia: Yeah, actually I don't think it's important. I just find it annoying that a dependency wait shows it as a build failure in Ubuntu. Lots of people email me about it all the time even though they don't use lpia O_o
<directhex> persia, if LPIA is basically Atom, isn't Ion LPIA?
<directhex> (ion being an nvidia 9400m variant as a replacement netbook chipset for atom)
<persia> directhex, I have no information to answer that question.  My opinion is that until the instruction set diverges from ia32, lpia is a marketing term.
<directhex> wasn't there discussion of axing it at UDS?
<persia> Yes.
<persia> The decision was that the silicon vendors were still talking about possible divergence in the future that would make a difference, and it would be more trouble to kill it and restore it than to leave it and ignore it.
<persia> But until I see chips that *are* different, rather than rumours that future chips will be different, I don't expect to put a lot of effort into it.
 * sistpoty|work has some doubts that binary incompatibilty will happen anywhen soonish, as that's imho the only strength of atom
 * directhex agrees
<directhex> sad reality is: what's the point in an Atom which can't run windows?
<persia> sistpoty|work, Maybe.  From what I've heard, the focus has been on optimisation, so that the line that currently provides the i7 focuses on raw throughput, whereas the line that currently provides the Atom focuses on throughput/watt.
<sistpoty|work> directhex: exactly
<persia> I've heard rumours that that specific application use case has caused significant annoyance to both camps.
<persia> But anyway, divergence is a matter of time, as much as anything else.
<persia> There's lots of bolt-on instruction sets that have been established over time.  Atom has lots less of these than i7.
<persia> If any of these are critical enough for performance, or if Atom gets a set that can significantly optimise for power, then there may be instruction divergence (although most of that would be just processes capabilities analysis)
<lifeless> are the compiler flags the same as i386 at the moment?
<persia> lifeless, Not sure.  There was a special lpia flags wrapper deployed in very early karmic.  I haven't checked if it is still there.
<slytherin> Which team handles mobile-meta package?
<alourie> persia, jmarsden: the kit seems to contain everything I need, checked with 'dpkg --contains'
<alourie> how should I proceed?
<persia> alourie, So, you've modified and compiled a package, and installed it.  What beyond that did you wish to accomplish?
<alourie> persia: how do I verify the quality is ok? what do I do next to "issue" the patch?
<persia> alourie, My memory is that you were doing a package split, with no other bugfixes.  If that is correct, there really isn't any "quality" to measure, so long as all the files are still present.
<persia> running debdiff between the original package and your modified package would generate a patch.
<_Andrew> Is there a way to get launchpad to auto build a package if one that depends upon it is updated
<persia> But unless there's some strong reason why something is broken otherwise, it is unlikely that your patch will be accepted in Ubuntu, as a package split requires significant maintenance and so needs commesurate gain.
<persia> Why would you rebuild something because a dependency was updated?  Usually, it's the other way about, and no.
<persia> While it's possible, it is often the case that when a dependency changes, some other change is required in a package (e.g. API changes for a library), so it benefits from human interaction.
<persia> (well, usually.  Ask someone who has done too much NBS, and they will provide a counterargument)
<_Andrew> ok
<alourie> persia: so I just debdiff and attach the patch files to the bug?
<persia> alourie, Yes, but unless the bug is part of some larger effort, don't expect it to be uploaded quickly, because package splits are expensive.
<alourie> persia: no, it's something quite light
<alourie> it's separation of language files from main wordpress installation
<persia> Right.  That's expensive to maintain, because someone would have to merge every cycle.
<persia> Mostly I'm just warning you that even if you did a spectacular job, it might not be considered a candidate for upload soon.
<alourie> persia: oh, that's ok, I volonteered to help rolf
<persia> Personally, for a package split, I'd recommend contacting the Debian maintainer, as it may also be interesting for Debian, and that would significantly reduce the burden (as it wouldn't have to be redone every six months).
<ScottK> YokoZar: Would you please look at Bug 439218 and tell me of you think it makes sense?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439218 in ubuntu "[needs packaging] wine-icons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439218
<persia> Ah, if you're doing it on request, that's another matter :)  You already have an uploader.
 * ScottK waves t persia.
<alourie> persia: r0lf offered mentoring on this and I almost done, just finishing up.
<persia> Hey ScottK
<persia> alourie, Then, yes, just attach the patch to the bug.
<alourie> persia: I debdiff the dsc files, right?
<persia> Right.
<persia> And check the result, to make sure it only contains the changes you wanted.
<alourie> ok
<persia> And test the result against the unpacked original package with patch -p1 < debdiff to make sure it applies cleanly.
<alourie> and I output it to a file which *is* the patch?
<persia> Right.
<alourie> ok
<alourie> how do I test it against the original?
<persia> dpkg-source -x ${orig}.dsc, cd ${packagedir}; patch -p1 < ${debdiff}
<alourie> oh, great
<persia> Just to make sure that your patch applies cleanly, etc.
<alourie> persia: how do I run lintian to test the package?
<pochu> lintian package.deb or lintian package.changes
<alourie> pochu: thanks
 * persia likes lintian -iIv, but that's more verbose than most prefer
<pochu> I run lintian -i -I --show-overrides --allow-root --color always foo.changes
<alourie> persia: oh, that was great! that's verbose-perfect :-)
<Laney> which cdbs target is usually used for list-missing?
<pochu> common-binary-predeb-arch I think
<Laney> works for me
<Laney> thanks
<slytherin> Laney: target? Shouldn't it be a debhelper flag?
<Laney> it comes with utils.mk
<joaopinto> sox is not installable, because libgsm1 is not available, is this a temporary building problem or should I file a bug report ?
<Laney> you should find out why and fix it :)
<joaopinto> it affects more than 10 packages
<joaopinto> Laney, I am asking if it' s known and someone is working on it to avoid wasting time :)
<Laney> infact it is installable for me
<joaopinto> karmic ?
<Laney> yep
<Laney> amd64
<joaopinto> E: Package libgsm1 has no installation candidate
<joaopinto> i386
<joaopinto> hum, it's listed at http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/i386/libgsm1/download
<Laney> can you install it manually?
<joaopinto> you mean, dpkg -i on the deb ?
<joaopinto> I am using the global archive, so it's not likely to be a mirror issue
<Laney> apt-get install libgsm1
<joaopinto> Laney, that E: is the output of apt-get install...
<Laney> oh Â¬_
<joaopinto> Laney, which mirror are you using ?
<Laney> gb
<joaopinto> apt-cache policy libgsm1, please
<Laney> neither of those packages has had an upload in weeks though, so it shouldn't matter
<joaopinto> you probably had the package before it got removed from the archive, for some reason
<Laney> it's not been removed
<joaopinto> you have an install candidate for libgsm1 ?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> try apt-cache policy libgsm1
<joaopinto> libgsm1:
<joaopinto>   Installed: (none)
<joaopinto> after changing to gb.
<joaopinto> for sox:
<Laney> candidate:?
<joaopinto>         500 http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com karmic/universe Packages
<joaopinto> yes, Candidate is what matters
<joaopinto> ah
<joaopinto> ops
<joaopinto>   Candidate: (none)
<Laney> works in a chroot too
<joaopinto> hum, a 32 bits chroot ?
<joaopinto> we are comparing different archs
<joaopinto> rep -c "Package: libgsm1" /var/lib/apt/lists/gb.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_karmic_universe_binary-i386_Packages
<joaopinto> 0
<joaopinto> g
<Laney> it's in main
<joaopinto> ops :\
<joaopinto> grr, my error :P
<joaopinto> tks and sorry
<Laney> what was it?
<joaopinto> I was playgin with my sources yesterday and forgot to re-enable main :P
<joaopinto> playing
<Laney> Â¬_Â¬
<joaopinto> that also explains the 0 updates from today :P
<joaopinto> and I was so happy that it was beta freeze related :)
<zooko> ia:
<james_w> hello zooko, did the powerpc user find the right packages?
<YokoZar> ScottK: are you asking me if the bug I filed makes sense?
<ScottK> YokoZar: Yeah.
<ScottK> YokoZar: I just hadn't looked at the bug to see who filed it.
<YokoZar> Well, I don't think I'm out of my mind, so I should say that it does make sense
<ScottK> Fair enough.
<ScottK> I guess I should actually read the bugs first.
<YokoZar> hah no problem ;)
<YokoZar> I suppose I could merge it into the normal package but there's probably merit to having it split anyway (I'd like to see Wine icons as part of the normal icon themes anyway, as they can be drawn to match them in many cases)
<ScottK> YokoZar: At this point in the release cycle it'd be better to leave it in the existing package and then split it out for Lucid.
<YokoZar> ScottK: so what's less messy, uuencode or .sng ?
<ScottK> So my preference would be for you to uuencode/decode them
<ScottK> I don't know about .sng, using uuencode is pretty common
<YokoZar> all right then, uuencode it is
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> I can't promise we'd get through New with a new package now, so this is safer.
<alourie> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> alourie: pong
<lfaraone> Are there any plans to port AuthClientConfig from Ubuntu to Debian? I'm not sure how to have my package modify nsswitch.conf and still follow debian policy.
<iulian> Errm.  Bloody Launchpad OOPSes!
<iulian> I can't even change a status of a bug.
<ScottK> File a bug, if you can ....
<siretart`> lfaraone: write instructions in README.Debian
<cgregan> Hello motu team. I am having a bit of a problem with gnome-do and was wondering if someone had a second or two to chat
<ScottK> !ask | cgregan
<ubottu> cgregan: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<cgregan> hehe
<cgregan> So.....When I launch gnome-do from start-up applications it hangs and eats most of my processor cycles. After I kill it and relaunch, it is ok. I was wondering if a) there is a fix b) I can modify my start-up application entry to sleep the app for a bit c) I can change the order of the start-up application order to launch later.
<jpds> cgregan: Does the same here sometimes, might be best to talk to #gnome-do about that.
<cgregan> jpds: ah....no idea there was a #gnome-do
<cgregan> jpds: so no way to adjust the order of starts in start-up applications applet?
<cgregan> jpds: I was hoping it had a linear process (i.e. apps at the top start first...bottom last)
<slytherin> cgregan: I believe there used to be a priority for startup applications. But I don't see it anywhere now (in jaunty at least).
<cgregan> slytherin: Hmm....definitely not in Karmic either.
<cgregan> I'll give #gnome-do a shot
<wrapster> what are APT alternatives? can anyone let me know what it means?
<Amaranth> wrapster: smart
<wrapster> Amaranth: ?
<Amaranth> !info smartpm
<ubottu> smartpm (source: smart): An alternative package manager that works with dpkg/rpm. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2-0ubuntu0.9.04 (jaunty), package size 50 kB, installed size 356 kB
<Amaranth> wrapster: basically it's an alternative way of resolving dependencies and downloading packages to feed to dpkg
<wrapster> Amaranth: resolving dependency? could you be a bit more descriptive ,im a newbie here trying to learn
<Amaranth> wrapster: Well, packages have dependencies. Certain other packages required for them to work. "Resolving dependencies" means figuring out what those are.
<Amaranth> Which can get complicated with recursive dependencies, either or dependencies (I need this package or this package), and multiple packages providing the same dependency
<wrapster> Amaranth: ok got it.. thanks for the info
<jtimberman> fabrice_sp_: hey.. let me know if i can help with that chef upgrade ticket
<fabrice_sp_> jtimberman, thanks :-)
<fabrice_sp_> I'm just building the package, and will check for the changes
<jtimberman> fabrice_sp_: github's migration was a bit rocky.
<jtimberman> fabrice_sp_: the uscan works with the watch file line you posted in the LP bug?
<fabrice_sp_> jtimberman, yes :-)
<fabrice_sp_> If you agree, I'll update it in your package
<jtimberman> that's fine, though we might move to creating our own tarballs and posting in the apt repository for a future release.
<fabrice_sp_> jtimberman, why having a lot of cp in the rules file, and not .install files?
<jtimberman> fabrice_sp_: iirc, i copied another package's example.
<fabrice_sp_> :-)
<fabrice_sp_> so please put in your todo list: make the rules file easier :-)
<fabrice_sp_> Anyway: everything sounds good, so I'll upload it
<jtimberman> thanks!
<fabrice_sp_> thanks to you for your hard work :-)
<jtimberman> looks like libmixlib-config-ruby isn't synced from debian yet. :/
<jtimberman> LP bug 420674
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420674 in libmixlib-config-ruby "Please sync libmixlib-config-ruby 1.0.12-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420674
<fabrice_sp_> yeah: waiting for an archive admin to process it
<fabrice_sp_> this mean that the package will FTBFS, right?
<fabrice_sp_> or it will just fail to run correctly?
<fabrice_sp_> jtimberman, ^
<jtimberman> looking
<fabrice_sp_> ok. Sorry :-)
<fabrice_sp_> libchef-ruby1.8 won't be installable (because of the Depends)
<jtimberman> yeah. because the package sets up the log_location as a file, iirc.
<jtimberman> i didn't do any of the code work on that in chef or mixlib-config though.
<fabrice_sp_> I'll upload it anyway, as the package will build fine
<jtimberman> alrighty
<Zelut> I'm having a PPA issue in that I can't figure how to upload for jaunty and karmic
<jdong> the upload will go to where debian/changelog's top entry tells it to go
<Zelut> jdong: which is what I assumed, and jaunty has been accepted and built. I'd now like to build for karmic so I changed the changelog but dput is rejected saying it already exists.
<ChogyDan> Zelut: and don't forget to add 'jaunty' and 'karmic' to the version numbers
<jdong> Zelut: dput rejects it because locally there's a .upload file
<jdong> I believe it's a .upload extension
<Zelut> jdong: i deleted the .upload file
<jdong> Zelut: you may need to mangle the version number too
<jdong> LP probably won't accept same package version uploads like that
<ScottK> It won't.
<Zelut> File origami_0.7.1.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz already exists in PPA for Christer Edwards, but uploaded version has different contents.
<Zelut> maybe increment the 0ubuntuX number? seems like a hack
<jdong> Zelut: well ideally your version number should already be that the karmic version is higher than the jaunty version
<jdong> i.e. look at how the Security team versions security updates
<jdong> otherwise you might be causing your users some upgrading grief
<ScottK> Zelut: I recommend avoiding revision numbers like would be used in the archive (e.g. 0ubuntu1) in a PPA.  I recommend a scheme like 0uubntu1~release1~ppa1.
<Zelut> hmm
<ScottK> This avoids namespace collisions both with normal release numbering and backports.
<jdong> yup
<ScottK> It also naturally gets you a higher version for newer releases
<Zelut> so, in this case, we'll just have to deal with different naming in my PPA for two packages that come from the same upstream version?
<Zelut> I guess I chalk this up to learning.
<ScottK> Zelut: You uploaded 0.7.1.1-0ubuntu1 for Karmic?
<Zelut> ScottK: for jaunty. I was going to push the same version to karmic.
<ScottK> Then just add +ppa1 to then end for karmic
<Zelut> ScottK: new upstream release today. Updated the jaunty PPA and wanted to add it to karmic as new.
<sebner> ScottK: around?
<ScottK> sebner: For a few moments
<sebner> ScottK: I just uploaded a no change rebuild (monotone), waiting for approval, Makes it installable
<ScottK> sebner: You aren't waiting for approval.
<sebner> ScottK: yeah, that was the mistake I made
<sebner> ScottK: the LP status is "Waiting for approval" <-- that's what I mean
<ScottK> sebner: Well you were, but I'd just accepted it when you pinged me.
<sebner> ScottK: great, thx
<zooko> Wow, launchpad is sluggish today.
<zooko> There's a bugfix release of pycryptopp which probably ought to go into Karmic.  I'm going to open a "request sync from Debian" request on launchpad if it ever lodas.
<zooko> Dammit.  The redirect to apport is really irritating.  I'm nowhere near a Linux box, and I'd like to get this bug report in and make my next appointment.
<zooko> Okay, that's my quota of complaining for the day.
<geser> zooko: append ?redirect=no to the reportbug link
<zooko> Okay success at opening the bug report.  bye for now!
<zooko> geser: ooh, thanks.  :-)
<geser> zooko: btw: how did you test that it builds if you aren't on Ubuntu right now?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-01
<RoAkSoAx> TheMuso, Heya!! can I be added to u-u-s please?? Thanks my LP is on the PM
<TheMuso> RoAkSoAx: Done, sorry I missed your message in here.
<RoAkSoAx> TheMuso, no prob :)
<RoAkSoAx> TheMuso, thanks :)
<TheMuso> np
<MaximLevitsky> Folks I have a problem
<MaximLevitsky> There is a library called libmms
<MaximLevitsky> It is now hosted on launchpad
<MaximLevitsky> But seems to be abadoned
<MaximLevitsky> But it is a gatekeeper on all mediaplayer live streams
<MaximLevitsky> I have now fixed two bugs in it
<MaximLevitsky> Original maintainer seems to abadon it, as there are many bugreports, and last activety on 2008
<MaximLevitsky> soren: you are here?
<zooko> geser: I didn't test that it builds on Ubuntu before opening the bug report.
<zooko> Folks: my brother is trying to set up the minimal operating system which can run a Xen hypervisor.  He seems to think that Debian is better than Ubuntu for the goal of minimalness.  Are there some new features in Karmic that would appeal to him?
<lifeless> polish?
<lifeless> and its been released this year :P
<virtuald> newer kernel with much improved disk io or maybe that's just kvm
<zooko> :-)
<virtuald> (which is what i'll use)
<zooko> What about JEOS?
<virtuald> i know nothing about that
<lifeless> zooko: its great for setting up vms
<lifeless> zooko: doesn't mean much w.r.t. hypervisor AFAIK; unless you get a xen JEOS image put together, of course ;)
<virtuald> is it just supposed to be a guest os?
<lifeless> it lets folk put together very targeted demos
<lifeless> like 'heres my CMS'
<virtuald> aha
<lifeless> on a vm, with whatever database etc etc you need - such things can be complex to install
<lifeless> like, some systems you need 3-4 hosts just to run sensibly, you can put together 3 vm's all preconfigured and say 'here, GO'
<virtuald> does it use libvirt?
<lifeless> don't think so, its still Ubuntu
<lifeless> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/jeos
<lifeless> just less of it
<ScottK> YokoZar: I just rejected wine-icons out of new based on our discussion this morning.  If that was wrong, let me know.
<ripps> How do I package an application to be selectable as the one of the default multimedia apps in Preferred Applications?
<RAOF> ripps: Looking at Banshee I suspect the answer is to have a suitable mime-type in the .desktop file.
<RAOF> ripps: Specifically, I suspect the related line to be "MimeType=x-content/audio-player", found in /usr/share/applications/banshee-1-media-player.desktop
<dholbach> good morning
<highvoltage> good morning
<slytherin> When requesting for sync from Debian, is it necessary that the size of .orig.tar.gz be same?
<Laney> it needs to be md5sum identical
<Laney> otherwise you should fakesync
<Laney> slytherin: ^
<slytherin> Laney: and md5sum are not same for repacked .orig.tar.gz files, right?
<Laney> if ubuntu and debian uploaded independently, not generally
<Laney> (not without special measures)
<slytherin> And what is fakesync?
<Laney> uploading a debian package just with a new changlog entry
<Laney> a no-change merge, basically
<slytherin> Laney: But then I will also need to get .orig.tar.gz from Debian, right? Is it allowed to reupload .orig.tar.gz?
<Laney> no, the point is to use Debian's .diff.gz with Ubuntu's different orig.tar.gz
<slytherin> hmm
<doko_> ScottK: just read http://sourceware.org/ml/gdb/2009-10/msg00007.html
<wrapster> where can i get a comprehensive doc for understanding/using all the debhelper scripts? man pages are not that good
<wrapster> is there an online doc/pdf by any chance
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
<zooko> Happy GNU Mailman Announcement Day, everyone!
<fale> hi
<RainCT> Hi fale
<joaopinto> Pici, couuld you provide a short description with the requirements for https://edge.launchpad.net/bantrackertwo ?
<Pici> joaopinto: Its not really -motu related, but I'll answer here and if you have any other questions feel free to join #ubuntu-irc. Two applications. One is an IRC bot (preferably supybot) plugin that watches a set of IRC channels for activity and records events such as kicks, bans, mutes, etc.  The second part is the web based counterpart for viewing these events, and making comments on them. Additionally there needs to be some ...
<Pici> ... sort of issue tracking for things that aren't tied to a specific event.
<joaopinto> ok
<RoAkSoAx> hey guys, we should remove the copying config.{guess,sub} from the clean target, right? But, should we remove it completely and do nothing else or should we move it to the config.status target and add a clean target to remove config.{guess,sub}
<fabrice_sp_> RoAkSoAx, I was going to update Bug #382539, recomending a sync/merge from debian, and saying that we are pas FF. Do you agree?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 382539 in passenger "Please upgrade passenger from 2.0.3 to 2.2.4" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/382539
<RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp_, sure feel free to do so :)
<RoAkSoAx> thanks
<fabrice_sp_> thanks ;-)
<ScottK> doko_: Thanks.
<AnAnt> Hello, do I need to file FFe for a new branding package ?
<AnAnt> it's an xsplash theme
<ScottK> If he comes back, tell him he does, but it should be easy to get approved.
<irvingpop> MOTU Team,  quick postinst / postrm question
 * irvingpop 1.   I'm fine tuning my postrm script,  but I keep getting this when removing the package:   update-rc.d: /etc/init.d/flashcam exists during rc.d purge (use -f to force)
 * irvingpop dpkg: error processing flashcam (--remove):
 * irvingpop  subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 1
<irvingpop> Is it normal for the /etc/init.d/$service file to hang around after removal,  or is there a way to tidy it up?
<irvingpop> NM, I think I got it
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-02
<Yan> hello! anyone interested to help a newcomer?
<dtchen> Yan: what's the context?
<ScottK> Apparently none.
<captivus> Good evening, MOTUs
<fabrice_sp_> Hi captivus
<captivus> I wonder if anyone can provide some guidance on a packaging quest I'm on
<fabrice_sp_> captivus, did you read the packaging guides?
<fabrice_sp_> !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<captivus> fabrice_sp_: Yessir.  My first question, however, is:  How do I know that my efforts in packaging a particular piece of software will be acceptable to the MOTU?
<ScottK> captivus: You don't.
<captivus> . . .
<ScottK> However ...
<ScottK> If the package is policy compliant, lintian clean, and builds successfully, you'll be way better than most stuff we see.
<ScottK> Also getting into Debian would guarantee it would get into Ubuntu.
<captivus> ScottK: It's interesting that you mention packaging for Debian, because Nate Handler suggested exactly that course of action for this particulare piece of software ...
<captivus> How do I go about that?  I imagine that the process is somewhat different ...
<ScottK> What's the package?
<captivus> Launchy
<ScottK> What's it written in?
<ScottK> captivus: ^^
<captivus> C++
<captivus> ... then Qt, of late
<captivus> ScottK: ^^
<ScottK> Then you might join #debian-qt-kde and at a time when Europe is likely to be awake ask them if someone would be interested in spsonsoring.
<ScottK> captivus: Also look at mentors.debian.net
<captivus> ScottK: Thank you!
<ScottK> No problem.
<dholbach> good morning
<mruiz> dholbach, hi
<dholbach> hola mruiz
<mruiz> GrÃ¼Ã dich!
<dholbach> hehe :)
<mruiz> hahahaha :)
 * mruiz learning new German words
<dholbach> fabrice_sp_: can you unsubscribe the sponsors team when you ACK a sync?
<dholbach> (to avoid people looking over them a second time ;-))
<mruiz> dholbach, I know you use evolution. Is there any way to put it into the tray (not alltray) ?
<dholbach> no idea
<dholbach> sorry
<mruiz> np
<fabrice_sp__> dholbach, good morning
<fabrice_sp__> sure: I can now :-)
<fabrice_sp__> only syn request or in general, all sponsored bug ?
<dholbach> fabrice_sp_: if a bug gets closed by an upload, you don't need to additionally unsubscribe the sponsors
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: just get stuff off the list once it's done :)
<fabrice_sp> dholbach, yeah: trying to get the list 'short' (if possible)
<dholbach> I usually unsubscribe the sponsors from acked syncs, stuff where it's clear that it can't be done, or when I asked questions and didn't get a reply in 2 weeks, or if stuff needs to get fixed and hasn't been fixed for 2 weeks
<dholbach> if you see what I mean
<fabrice_sp> ok. Sounds a good practice. I'll apply that :-)
<fabrice_sp> (and will update the wiki page, to indicate that)
<fabrice_sp> thanks ;-)
<fabrice_sp> have to go. Bye
<frandieguez> Hi to all, I'm a member of Ubuntu Galician Translators and I'm testing Ubuntu Karmic beta on galician language (gl_ES) and after 2 weeks solving all the translation errors on alfa6 we can see that the ubiquity-slideshow isn't showed translated yet. What is the procedement for make Ubuntu integrate the translations made on launchpad on the final product release?
<dpm> frandieguez, you don't have to do anything to make those translations appear in Ubuntu, the ubuntu-installer team takes care of that. It might be that when they did the last export of translations the Galician ones weren't ready yet, but they will most probably make it in the next translation export
<dpm> frandieguez, to be more certain, you can also ask on the #ubuntu-installer channel
<frandieguez> dpm, thanks for the quickly response
<frandieguez> I'll ask there in the future
<dpm> np :-)
<dpm> you can also ask on #ubuntu-translators for anything related to translations
<dpm> frandieguez, having a look at the changelog -> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+changelog it seems that translations were last imported from Launchpad on the 17th of September
<dpm> So if the Galician translations were done after that date, that's probably why they weren't included
<dpm> but they will make it to the package next time they are exported
<frandieguez> Yes, I have translated the previous week so It doesn't imported yet
<dpm> ah, ok
<frandieguez> I hope the ubuntu-installer team will import the translations on the next release
<dpm> frandieguez, I'm sure they will before the final release at least. They might be able to tell you more at #ubuntu-installer
<frandieguez> dpm, thanks
<dpm> you're welcome
<directhex> by the power of greyskull....
 * directhex summons someone from ~motu-release
 * sistpoty|work appears by directhex's summonings
<directhex> still wondering about whether a banshee ffe is worth requesting. we didn't upload a beta version because we wanted upstream to give us a "stable" release in time for karmic, but tbh, the current beta is better than the current stable in terms of, um, stability
<sistpoty|work> directhex: are the extensions a separate project or do these also come from banshee?
<Laney> doesn't matter so much if it's not destined to be the defeault either imo
<directhex> Laney, preciselyh
<sistpoty|work> well, I think more stable is always better, but I'm just wondering if this might break rdepends
<directhex> sistpoty|work, there are 2 extensions afaik as distinct source packages... i think they're careful in their versioning so may well not need a rebuild. hyperair, can you confirm?
<directhex> hyperair, i..e do mirage & lyrics from the repo work on 1.5?
<hyperair> directhex: afaik they do.
<sistpoty|work> there's also remuco-banshee...
<hyperair> directhex: i'm running the daily version and the archive mirage and lyrics work
<hyperair> don't worry about remuco-banshee
<directhex> let ME worry about blank?
<hyperair> that one has no abi constraint. it just talks to banshee via dbus
<hyperair> blank?
<sistpoty|work> hyperair: ah, thanks... just wondered how that interacts with banshee :)
<directhex> hyperair, futurama misquote ;)
<hyperair> ._.
<hyperair> all in all i'd actually prefer to stuff 1.5 into the archive. it fixes loads of bugs
<hyperair> i'm not sure which exactly, though.
<sistpoty|work> I think if both of you think that 1.5 makes sense, I won't object ;)
<hyperair> okay. so i'll file a sync request then?
<sistpoty|work> hyperair: well, you'll need another +1 from motu-release apart from mine though
<hyperair> yes, i know
<directhex> hyperair, shall we do a fresh sid upload first? also, i expect a formal ffe request is needed? sistpoty|work?
<directhex> hyperair, did 151 happen?
<hyperair> directhex: not that i know of
 * directhex goes to punch upstream
<sistpoty|work> directhex: yes, ffe would be good... for me it doesn't need to be too formal
<sistpoty|work> opinion of other motu-release members might vary though
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: ^^ also got some wise words you'd like to add?
<ScottK> If it's better, I'd say go for it.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: ^^
<sistpoty|work> *nod*
<wrapster> i have a tarball.. which is not a debian pkg.. but i want to convert it into one.
<wrapster> so i downloaded it and dh_make <opts> now here is my question... have a look at this..http://pastie.org/639372 the first segment contains the files that were present in that tarball and after dh_make there was a debian dir that was created... the second segment has contents in the debian dir.. I would like to know.. if i can delete all those makefies and everything that is present under the dir which was created after the extraction of the tarball
<wrapster> guys can anyone look into this issue?
<mok0> wrapster: you can delete most of those files
<wrapster> mok0: in which segment.. I actually deleted all the *.{ex, Ex} files
<wrapster> in the debian dir..
<mok0> wrapster: err, segment?
<wrapster> how about in the first segment?
<wrapster> i deleted most in the 2nd segment
<wrapster> how about the 1st?
<mok0> wrapster: you mean before the ...... line?
<wrapster> yeah
<mok0> wrapster: that is part of upstream's distribution
<mok0> wrapster: you should only change stuff in debian/
<wrapster> you mean all those Makefiles?
<wrapster> ok
<mok0> wrapster: just leave them
<mok0> wrapster: the minimum set of files in debian/ is: control, changelog, copyright, compat and rules
<sistpoty|work> compat is not strictly needed actually (but who does w.o. debhelper nowadays though)
<mok0> sistpoty|work: I've not seen one package without it
<mok0> sistpoty|work: I'd like to :-)
<wrapster> coz when i tried doing that and ran dpkg-buildpkg this is what i got http://pastie.org/639017
<mok0> wrapster: you need to install some stuff on your machine
<wrapster> mok0: yeah thats what I did.. but the issue is im still a beginner at this. and the pkg im trying to build is not available only as a tarball.. I need help
<wrapster> mok0: it would be helpful if you could tell me how you deduced that i need to install some stuff?
<mok0> wrapster: I may be wrong
<wrapster> oh
<sistpoty|work> mok0: I've seen (and touched) one once... but it was converted after I filed a bug in BTS *g*
<mok0> wrapster: but the compile fails because it can't find an include file called usba.h
<wrapster> yeah...
<wrapster> read that..
<mok0> wrapster: is that a file in the software package you are working with?
<sistpoty|work> mok0: oh, there's actually one that does w.o. debhelper: "leave"
<c_korn> mok0: the binutils package does not have a debian/compat file I think
<wrapster> well its not there for sure but have a look at it.. it says sys/usb.... which means its realtive path right
<wrapster> so relative to the build dir i cant find any such file!!!
<mok0> sistpoty|work: oh, I must take a look at that one. Does it manually build the .deb file using ar c ? :-P
<sistpoty|work> mok0: nope:     dpkg --build $tmp ..
<wrapster> are you guys referring to me?
<mok0> sistpoty|work: oh, cutting corners, eh :-P
<mok0> wrapster: no
<sistpoty|work> hehe
<wrapster> ok.. im such a newbie to this that everything you talk is almost like its for me...
<mok0> wrapster: but the compile would find it if it's relative to /usr/include
<wrapster> anyway can you tell me what needs to be done.. I know that i need to include that file.. I can find it
<wrapster> from the ON-source website..
<wrapster> that not an issue...
<wrapster> will do something and try it.. could you shed some light on how i can proceed?
<mok0> wrapster: actually, there is no point packaging that software if the dependency is not packaged
<mok0> wrapster: that is, unless usba.h can be install via another package
<mok0> wrapster: AFAICS it's not in any Ubuntu package
<mok0> wrapster: but in Google it shows up amongst a lot of Solaris stuff
<joaopinto> mok0, he is packaging for nexenta
<mok0> joaopinto: oh
<joaopinto> wrapster, already done with your binutils hack ?
<mok0> joaopinto: after seeing Phoronix head-to-head comparison, I wouldn't bother with Solaris... Ubuntu is _much_ faster on the same hardware
<joaopinto> mok0, well, there are some good reasons, like zfs
<mok0> joaopinto: *shrug*
<joaopinto> but weell, I am never tried opensolaris :)
<joaopinto> I had to admnister an old solaris box, mostly reboot it :P
<mok0> joaopinto: I guess if you're in a Solaris shop it makes sense
<mok0> In the old days, whenever we got an IRIX box, the first thing I did was to install all the GNU software on it
<mok0> I guess nexenta is pretty much the same thing for Solaris
<wrapster> joaopinto: yeah.. and its working as welll :)
<wrapster> ok i found out that usba.h is a interface card dependant stuff... but its not on on-source website...
<mok0> wrapster: is it in a package?
<wrapster> can anyone help me to find it? or better yet could you tell me if i run into such issues where i can look for help
<wrapster> no
<mok0> wrapster: you might want to go to nexenta's IRC channels for help
<wrapster> ok
<mok0> wrapster: #nextenta it seems
<mok0> wrapster: #nexenta
<mok0> on this server
<wrapster> mok0: yeah i know.. thanks
<mok0> wrapster: we can help you with general packaging questions here
<wrapster> mok0: ok thanks.. i will definitely need that as well.. so will ping you guys when im stuck.. thanks a lot
<wrapster> btw its here http://cvs.opensolaris.org/source/xref/kerberos/mit_163_resync/usr/src/uts/common/sys/usb/usba.h
<mok0> wrapster: Ah, yes
<mok0> wrapster: I actually saw that pop up in Google
<wrapster> thats exactly how i found it as well :D
<mok0> wrapster: heh
<wrapster> so including that in /usr/include should do the trick?
<mok0> wrapster:  No you can't do it like that
<wrapster> then
<mok0> wrapster: if that file is not present in another package, yours will be useless
<wrapster> ok in that case.. its present in SUNWusbu
<mok0> wrapster: because no one can build the package without first locating that file on Google
<mok0> wrapster: the you need to put a "Build-Depends: SUNWusbu" in debian/control
<joaopinto> package name with uppercase :) ?
<mok0> joaopinto: I dunno what nexenta are doing
<mok0> joaopinto: RedHat HaS oNe MiX oF uPpErCaSe AnD lOwErCaSe LeTtErS
<mok0> joaopinto: one of the reasons that redhat sux :-)
<joaopinto> :D
<wrapster> yeah its a sun pkg
<joaopinto> oh god :)
<wrapster> ok not anymore coz i have a nexetna pkg as well
<wrapster> no thats wrong i guess... have a look at this.. http://src.opensolaris.org/source/search?q=usba.h&defs=&refs=&path=&hist=&project=%2Fonnv.. btw how do i find out the pkg in which this file is located?
<siretart`> dpkg -S /path/to/file
<wrapster> that worked.. now have this!!! usbgem.c:5555: error: '_memcpy' aliased to external symbol 'memcpy'
<wrapster> this is fun
<wrapster> :)
<jbernard_> ScottK: around?
<ScottK> jbernard_: Yes, but busy with other things, what's up?
<jbernard_> ScottK: mok0 suggested that bug #436006 be backported,
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436006 in ubuntu-dev-tools "pull-lp-source broken with new LP API" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436006
<jbernard_> i was going to make a debdiff that just cherry-picks that fix
<ScottK> Then you'll need a motu-sru person for that
<jbernard_> does this sound like the right approach?
<ScottK> It's that or backport all of u-d-t-
<jbernard_> that's a no-go, launchpadlib is on quite a different version, as i recall
<jbernard_> i think the cherry-pick would be low risk
<Lazy> i'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but is there documentation what should i do to debug my audio problems?
<Lazy> because my audio stopped working after upgrading to karmic
<joaopinto> Lazy, #ubuntu+1
<Lazy> k, thanks anyway
<geser> jbernard_: from a look at this bug, it's mislabeled, as not the LP API changed but the HTML page it screen-scrapes changed with LP 3.0 (but the fix should be backported/SRUed instead of the whole package)
<jdong> ugh prevu is equally affected by the LP change.
<jdong> I still have that on my TODO list to fix before the release.
 * jdong should in fact switch over to having u-d-t's screenscaper handle it.
<geser> if it screen-scrapes than you should check if still works with the new layout of LP 3.0 and either fix it or use the LP API where possible
<jdong> yeah, the next major release I do plan on switching to the LP API for that purpose
<jdong> for now fixing the regex is good for karmic.
<wrapster> what is the difference between /usr/bin/ld and /usr/ccs/bin/ld
<jdong> CCS C compiler?
<jdong> that's a solaris-y question :)
<geser> to which package belongs the later file?
<jdong> I thought they deprecated the CCS stuff in solaris
<jdong> at least the newest versions perhaps
<jdong> oh well I'll stop pretending that I understand the OS ;-)
<joaopinto> wrapster, keeping asking about opensolaris specific binaries/files here is not really helpful
<geser> is archive.ubuntu.com for others slow too?
<wrapster> well this is the point.. im in a fix here coz the OS im using has both opensolaris and ubuntu stuff..
<wrapster> so .......
<wrapster> :(
<jdong> geser: yeah tcp connect()'s are slow
<jpds> geser: Yes, beta congesting everything.
<jpds> Everyone should *really* use a local mirror.
<geser> I assumed it :) but want to know for sure that's it not my internet connection
<joaopinto> wrapster, we can help you about pacaking,  not about non packaging questions related to opensolaris stuff
<wrapster> oh yeah sorry.. will try #ubuntu
<wrapster> sorry again.
<jdong> I do, but also list archive.ubuntu.com at lower priority...
<jdong> just to make sure I'm tracking the later packages
<joaopinto> wrapster, uh, how is an opensolaris related to ubuntu ?
<wrapster> its not and that where nexenta comes into pic
<jdong> well Solaris-induced Ubuntu package troubles are still not on topic here :)
<jdong> we'd love to hear about Ubuntu package issues pertaining to our packaging, here.
<joaopinto> is there an ubuntu package providing /usr/ccs/bin/ld ?
<joaopinto> wrapster, erm, wasn't your binutils package providing the links on css to make it opensolaris compatible ?
<joaopinto> there is no /usr/ccs/bin on ubuntu
<wrapster> no...it was a different path..
<wrapster> and secondly the issue im facing is differnt... if you dont mind then i'll do a pastie
<wrapster> :)
<joaopinto> sure, but like I said, if you are asking about differences to opensolaris, is hard to check
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<jbernard_> geser: yes, you are correct
<jbernard_> only the version in karmic works with the 3.0 layout
<hyperair> what was that program that does dfsg-compliance checking?
<ScottK> You mean vrms?
<ScottK> It's not actually dfsg, it's gnu
<RainCT> ScottK: Are you sure? The manpage says Â«Stallman and the Debian project  have  diverged  since this program was originally written.  In such cases, this program follows the definition of freedom embodied  in the Debian Free Software Guidelines.Â»
<ScottK> RainCT: I.  I'm not sure, I was making assumptions.
<Laney> I think it just uses archive components
<Laney> (so dfsg)
<christoph_debian> Laney: jep correct
<hyperair> ScottK, RainCT: no i wasn't talking about that. i'm quite sure there  was something to search within source tarballs for dfsg-offending stuff.
<ScottK> Which, BTW, means on Ubuntu it's kind of between the two as we allow dfsg invariant.
<ScottK> Oh
<RainCT> hyperair: I can only think of suspicious-source then, but that's not related to DSFG (just checks for files which aren't in the preferred edition format)
<hyperair> ah.
<hyperair> i think that's what i was looking for
<fabrice_sp_> Is the motu meeting confirmed at 19h UTC? (in 1h30?)
<Laney> is there an agenda?
 * fabrice_sp_ doesn't know. Just saw 2 emails...
<zooko> How can I close this ticket as Fixed? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/289431
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289431 in debian "Please sync python-pycryptopp from debian unstable" [Unknown,Fix released]
<fabrice_sp_> zooko, this is already closed (Fix released)
<james_w> zooko: done
<james_w> zooko: for future reference, click the yellow "pencil" icon next to the status you want to change and select from the pop-up list
<james_w> if you don't have javascript then I'm not sure how this page works now
<james_w> there will be combo boxes and a form submit to operate instead
<fabrice_sp_> james_w, what was missing? the bug appeared as Fix Released
<james_w> fabrice_sp_: there's more than one task
<fabrice_sp_> ohhhhh. ok
<james_w> see the bot reported it as a bug in "debian"
<fabrice_sp_> james_w, you're right. I didn't paid attention to that
<RainCT> If anyone knows some easy bugs suitable for fixing at the Global Jam, I could take some bug numbers
<fabrice_sp_> RainCT: why don't you work on FTBFS of the test rebuild? Some are easy to fix (missing dependencies, for example)
<Laney> -backports uploads don't autoclose bugs?
<james_w> RainCT: bug 440635 might be easy depending on what the solution is :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440635 in gnome-themes-ubuntu "required icon themes missing for two included GNOME themes" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440635
<james_w> oh, Andrew claimed it
<RainCT> I'm looking at the i386/amd64 build failures, but haven't found any obvious one yet (well, maybe I'm just not looking right :P, /me goes to check a few more)
<geser> RainCT: for a missing build-dependency a good candidate might be http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32002455/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.libgtkhtml2_2.11.1-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> (I've just looked at the build log and not how hard it turns out to be in the end)
<geser> RainCT: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32660548/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.wikipediafs_0.3-5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz seems to be missing --install-layout=deb
<RainCT> geser: Great, thanks. (wikipediafs? wow, there is weird stuff! :P)
<geser> RainCT: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32126698/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.necpp_1.3.0%2Bcvs20090101-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz (error: invalid conversion from 'const char*' to 'char*'
<fabrice_sp> RainCT, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31889048/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.ivtools_1.1.3-5.4ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz it's a build dependency on xutils-dev instead of xutils
<geser> there is a const missing before a pointer variable)
<fabrice_sp> there are a lot of this one :-/
<geser> and also many conflicting declarations for getline too
<fabrice_sp> yeah
<RainCT> geser: what's the problem with the getline ones? the program defining it's own function with that name?
<sebner> huhu sistpoty :D
<sistpoty> hi sebner
<RainCT> ok I think I got enough, thanks geser, fabrice_sp, james_w!
<zooko> Thanks, james_w.  Next question: how do I push MOTU's to consider this ticket: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pycryptopp/+bug/439691
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439691 in pycryptopp "please sync pycryptopp-0.5.17 from Debian" [Undecided,New]
<james_w> sponsorship!
<james_w> zooko: are you running Ubuntu?
<james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<zooko> Oh, that's a pencil.  I never thought I could use it to change things because I thought it was a footprint.
<zooko> james_w: I am runnng ubuntu.
<james_w> zooko: if you install the ubuntu-dev-tools package there is a "requestsync" script that can file bugs for syncing from Debian and do all the necessary bits
<zooko> james_W: thanks!
<james_w> you might be interested in http://identi.ca/notice/11175390 if the LP icons confuse you
<sistpoty> slangasek, ScottK, vorian: http://paste.ubuntu.com/284055/
<sistpoty> anything missing, anyone got the url for the gcc-4.4 rebuild bugs in unstable? anything else? *g*
<sistpoty> (maybe I should put in there: remember that you must fix 3 ftbfs to get one universe FFe accepted *g*)
<pochu> (-:
<randomaction> sistpoty: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?submitter=tbm%40cyrius.com
<sistpoty> randomaction: thanks... is there also a way to filter for usertags? (gcc-4.4 is the one I'm looking for)
<geser> IIRC there is one
<sistpoty> that's what I thought, but I didn't find it immediately and gave up looking for it then :/
<christoph_debian> sistpoty: do you know the user?
<ari-tczew> hello
<sistpoty> christoph_debian:  User: debian-gcc@lists.debian.org (I'm looking for the gcc-4.4 bugs)
<christoph_debian> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?users=debian-gcc@lists.debian.org;tag=ftbfs-gcc-4.4 or so
<fabrice_sp_> hello ari-tczew
<fabrice_sp_> did you see my comment in your sync request?
<sistpoty> christoph_debian: excellent, thanks!
<christoph_debian> :)
<ari-tczew> yes - I need complete FFe requests in your mention, right?
<fabrice_sp_> right
<ari-tczew> it's my first enter on irc ;-O
<fabrice_sp_> in that case, it should be quite easy, as this ib has only one rdepends: hugin :-)
<fabrice_sp_> s/ib/lib/
<diwic> while we're at the FTBFS bugs, I decided to look at xfishtank. It seems like it is corrected upstream and there is a sync request (LP: #439216).
<fabrice_sp_> welcome then :-)
<fabrice_sp_> bug #439216
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439216 in xfishtank "Sync xfishtank 2.2-25.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439216
<sistpoty> slangasek, ScottK, vorian: (updated url to gcc-4.4 bugs in unstable, no other changes): http://paste.ubuntu.com/284066/
<diwic> fabrice_sp_: should it really be wishlist?
<fabrice_sp_> diwic, it's whishlist by default
<sistpoty> diwic: from changelog, this doesn't look like it'd fix the ftbfs?
<sistpoty> diwic: did you do a test-build already?
<fabrice_sp_> this sync request has been generated by a MOTU, and  wating for an achive admin
<diwic> sistpoty: debian #485546 is the FTBFS bug
<ubottu> Debian bug 485546 in xfishtank "xfishtank: FTBFS: Using imake without Build-Depends on xutils-dev" [Important,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/485546
<sistpoty> diwic: oh, sorry. didn't read that build-dependencies got changed, sorry
<sistpoty> diwic: as I just saw, quadrispro filed it, so it'll get processed
<sistpoty> (and doesn't need sponsoring)
<ScottK> sistpoty: Looks good to me.
<slangasek> sistpoty: wrong link for the test rebuild, I think?
<slangasek> wgrant had said it was moved to http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html
<slangasek> I guess both links work, so I'm not sure which is authoritative
<sistpoty> heh, I used the one from my firefox history *g*
<sistpoty> slangasek: ok, updated: http://paste.ubuntu.com/284073/
<sebner> sistpoty: already an idea for a new date for the MOTU meeting?
<sistpoty> sebner: nah, I'll just get it wrong a 2nd time and hopes that someone else takes initiative now :P
<sebner> sistpoty: haha, at least we need agenda items first. Without any, nobody will have motivation to do something
<sistpoty> sebner: my agenda would be fix ftbfs, fix ftbfs, fix ftbfs :P
<sistpoty> christoph_debian: you're a member of debian games team and know how to use git, right? I'd have a one-line change for invaders
<sebner> sistpoty: nothing motivation then :P
<sistpoty> christoph_debian: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32726620/invaders_1.0.0-8_1.0.0-8ubuntu1.diff.gz (adding -fno-stack-protector to CFLAGS)
<sistpoty> christoph_debian: I wanted to commit this myself, but would need to learn git for it first :/
<christoph_debian> sistpoty: having a look
<sistpoty> thanks!
<christoph_debian> stack-protector was some hardening option?
<slangasek> sistpoty: s/superseeded/superseded/; s/recieve/receive/;
<sistpoty> christoph_debian: yes
<slangasek> sistpoty: otherwise looks good, feel free to send it and ping me for mailing list queue approval
<sistpoty> christoph_debian: afaik there are no plans for debian to make it the default though (in Ubuntu it is), but I might be wrong on the former
<sistpoty> slangasek: ok, thanks!
<kees> sistpoty, christoph_debian: I'd love to get it as a default in Debian.
<kees> haven't had time to push it though
<sistpoty> kees: ah, k, good to know :)
<christoph_debian> it was discussed at the debian-security bof at debconf
<kees> christoph_debian: yeah.  what happened from that?
<christoph_debian> not muhc I know
<christoph_debian> sistpoty: why do you think invaders is in git?
<kees> sistpoty: with regard to the use of -fno-stack-protector... isn't there a better way to fix that?
<sistpoty> christoph_debian: not too sure now as you say it... :/
<sistpoty> kees: I doubt... that package is a game for grub (not for the installed system)
<christoph_debian> ahh that was invaders
<kees> sistpoty: oh!
<kees> sistpoty: hah.  interesting.  then I assume it's not built with -nostdlib ?
<sistpoty> kees: it is compiled with -freestanding... the only other way would be to have -freestanding work with stack-protector by providing _stk_chk_fail in libgcc
<kees> normally that turns off the stack protector
<sistpoty> kees: oh, I'm wrong, it's -nostdlib
<kees> sistpoty: hrm, that really shouldn't ftbfs.  /me looks
<sistpoty> meh, wrong again, that's a ldflag...
<kees> hah, ok
<sistpoty> kees: you can see the cflags here: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32726620/invaders_1.0.0-8_1.0.0-8ubuntu1.diff.gz
<sistpoty> (diff is better than mixing diff with my memory from two days ago)
<kees> heh.  I wonder if moving -nostdlib to CFLAGS would fix this... /me gives it a shot
<sistpoty> kees: thanks!
<randomaction> I'm fixing FTBFS on an Ubuntu-only package (not in Debian). Should I lintian-clean it while I'm at it? (i.e. bump standards-version, add misc-depends..)
<sistpoty> randomaction: that depends... bumping standards-version means that you'll also need to make sure that the new standards-version apply
<sistpoty> randomaction: given that we're late in the cycle, I'd personally omit these cosmetics to get on with the next ftbs sooner ;)
<randomaction> lintian is usually good at it.. ok, i'll drop it.
<christoph_debian> kees: moving -nostdlib works
<maco> does debian/menu generate a .desktop?
<maco> or is that only for the debian-menu-specific stuff?
<chrisccoulson> maco - that's only for the debian menu stuff
<maco> boo
<CardinalFang> Hi all.  The 'picard' package has been broken for a while.  There's a bug with half a dozen duplicates.  The fix is easy.
<CardinalFang> Would someone mind sponsoring my debdiff?  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/picard/+bug/422032
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 422032 in picard "picard crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [High,In progress]
<chrisccoulson> CardinalFang - i haven't got much time to look at it yet. you subscribed u-u-s?
<CardinalFang> chrisccoulson, No I haven't.  "ubuntu universe subscribers?"
<chrisccoulson> ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<CardinalFang> Done now.
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> i will take a look after dinner if noone else has done already
<chrisccoulson> thanks for working on it
<sistpoty> slangasek: ping (as in mail is in moderation queue)
<slangasek> sistpoty: accepted, thanks
<sistpoty> thanks!
<sistpoty> CardinalFang: from a glimpse, debdiff looks good. I'll give it a shot
 * chrisccoulson really must do some sponsoring tonight
<sistpoty> crack, german mirror seems to be updating (mismatching md5sum in sources) and a.u.c is so slow atm.
<ari-tczew> can I register my nick?
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: if you're an ubuntu member, then yes. However I don't know how :(
<sebner> sistpoty: slow = not working here :\
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: or do you mean register as in register with nickserv
<sistpoty> sebner: be patient :P it does trickle in from time to time *g*
<ari-tczew> I'm using irc first now, I entered here without asking a password, so I want to own "ari-tczew" only for me (block by passwd)
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: ah, oke, then please take a look at http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration
<sebner> sistpoty: heh, I'll try to get new infos about nexuiz today or tomorrow btw :\
<sistpoty> sebner: I have slight doubts, as fuddl will be doing irc radio tomorrow :P
<sebner> sistpoty: pfff, doesn't keep him away from chatting with me :P
<sistpoty> haha
<sistpoty> sebner: tell him greetings ;)
<sebner> sistpoty: If I really catch him, for sure. I'm wondering if that speeds up his work (dunno if you threat or hug him in RL) :P
<sistpoty> haha
<sebner> sistpoty: btw, the last 2 days were only bla bla but on monday the prolog starts (2 weeks of introduction) with Algorithm, Computer, Maths. Let's see how I'll perform
<sistpoty> sebner: cool! I'm quite sure you'll be excellent!
<sebner> sistpoty: heh, I doubt that unless they'll replace everything with Ubuntu/MOTU stuff :D
<sistpoty> hehe
<sebner> sistpoty: I already did some Social Engineering too, always worth to have that *g*
<ari-tczew> sysinfo
<ari-tczew> Uptime: 7 hours and 4 minutes
<sistpoty> CardinalFang: thanks for the picard debdiff, uploading
<CardinalFang> thank you, sistpoty.
<sistpoty> CardinalFang: just as a hint: please don't ignore errors in debian/rules (otherwise we might not find out if your fix ceases to work in the future)
<CardinalFang> sistpoty, yeah, that "grep -v" is tricky.
<sistpoty> CardinalFang: it is, and I did spend a few minutes thinking why it works
<CardinalFang> sistpoty, it raises false though, I think.
<CardinalFang> sistpoty, anyway, thank you.
<sistpoty> CardinalFang: maybe just adding one comment line to __init__.py would be a simpler way to do it ;I)
<sistpoty> CardinalFang: thank you for fixing the bug!
<ari-tczew> works fine, thnx sistpoty
<sistpoty> you're welcome ari-tczew
<sistpoty> wow, ubuntu-universe-sponsors bugs is down to one page :)
<christoph_debian> sebner: may I ask what you're doing? University?
<sebner> chrisccoulson: sure, yes
<christoph_debian> but not one of the erlangen gang? ;)
<sistpoty> two bugs that I guess could need some help: bug #420918 and bug #427539 (the former has an FFe granted, but lacks packaging, that latter needs more testing/evaluation for the FFe)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420918 in isdnutils "please update libcapi" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420918
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427539 in maven2 "[FFe] Sync libmaven packages from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427539
<ScottK> sistpoty: I think maven needs manual bootstrapping first.  lamont is planning on doing that this weekend, I think.
<sistpoty> ScottK: yes, observed that as well... but imho it would also be good if someone puts it in a ppa for testing (and the FFe needs -core to get newed, but I haven't checked if anything else needs to get newed)
<ScottK> sistpoty: I think it needs bootstrapped and someone needs to sit down and make a plan.
<sistpoty> ScottK: yes, exactly the latter I'm trying to request help with :)
<ari-tczew> .
<ari-tczew> I did sync request maven, how I can help?
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: have you tried putting the packages in a ppa yet?
<ari-tczew> not yet, but I can do it
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: that would be excellent
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: however please note that you might need to wait until some build-dependencies are available for ubuntu
<ari-tczew> in this week I tryied to make bash script for mass sync from unstable to ppa, but it's not easy for n00b :P
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: (that's what lamont is doing at the moment, since there seems to be a loop of unavailable buid-dependencies)
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: sure thing
<sistpoty> just saw your upload, thanks kees!
<ari-tczew> I'll forward packages to ppa, but tommorow. Today is too late.
<sistpoty> kk
<sistpoty> and thanks!
<ari-tczew> so if I just talking with 'admins', I want to ask about something
<ari-tczew> In some months I'm making packages for karmic, and I learned that we need contribute to debian too
<ari-tczew> Do I need forward packages to unstable?
<ari-tczew> new upstreams etc?
<ari-tczew> (nmu)
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: ideally, if you fix something in Ubuntu and the fix applies to debian as well, you should forward the fix
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: for new upstream versions, if there's a debian bug already requesting it, you could attach a fix there as well
<ScottK-desktop> ari-tczew: Not normally unless the package is orphaned in Debian, but also as sistpoty says.
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: or you could report a new bug requesting it (and pointing to the updated ubuntu package)
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: btw, I'm just looking at libpano and hence at hugin. What's the compelling reason we want a new version of hugin?
<ari-tczew> bug-fix, requested by someone in launchpad
<ari-tczew> really I don't need hugin, but I want to help with packaging, e.g. testing builds in ppa etc.
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: 0.7 -> 0.8 is strictly bugfix only?
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: are there some bugs on launchpad that are getting fixed with 0.8?
<ari-tczew> wait, I'll make diff from ChangeLog file and upload to launchpad for easier reviewing
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: excellent, thanks!
<kees> sistpoty: yup, no problem.
<wgrant> slangasek: -karmic is authoritative, but the other is a symlink.
<kees> sistpoty: and now I can play space-invaders from grub  ;)
<ari-tczew> FYI really a lot of bugs touched by me isn't for me. I'm only giving my hands and time to work, in order to satisfy as much of common ubuntu's users (e.g. new upstream versions)
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: sure thing, but please also understand that motu-release needs some information to make the judgement if it's an update is better for the release or might introduce regressions resulting in much more bugs
<ari-tczew> yes I understand this
<sistpoty> kees: pfft, that sounds like I ruined ubuntu-security's functionality for the release :P
<sistpoty> good that I didn't even mention zaz (as in unstable) yet, and will probably be against adding that to karmic *g*
 * kees has no idea what zaz is...
<kees> ooh
<sistpoty> damnit
<sistpoty> my spouse insisted that I backport it for her jaunty laptop after she saw my playing it
<kees> heheh
<kees> you could totally get that into karmic -- it's a new package.  ;)
<sistpoty> heh
<dtchen> kees: got a second for an approach question regarding strcmp()?
<kees> dtchen: sure, sup?
<dtchen> kees: ok, so in bug 437293 there's something really bad going on between bluez and pulse
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437293 in pulseaudio "pulseaudio crashed with SIGSEGV in strcmp()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437293
<dtchen> kees: the code appears to be crashing due to pa_streq()  (which is just a wrapper around strcmp() ) not validating its modargs
<dtchen> kees: i.e., if (address && !(pa_streq(d->address, address))) {
<ari-tczew> @sistpoty: As you said, I can send debdiff to BTS. Can I full upload package like in Ubuntu?
<christoph_debian> new packages are easy? so douf00 would be no problem? ;)
<kees> dtchen: one sec, loading bug
<kees> dtchen: er, ok, so what's the issue?
<dtchen> kees: i've spoken with upstream pulse, and he's convinced it's not an issue to not check d->address or address there
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: well, there's mentors.debian.net, where you can store a source package. But I guess you could also attach a .diff.gz to a bug, not too sure what's best practice though
<dtchen> kees: now, i understand that bluez _should_ be doing the right thing, but uh, isn't it fairly bad practice to just assume strcmp()'s args are initialized?
<jtimberman> Do sync requests in Karmic need a second MOTU? If so, could someone please ack lp bug # 420674
<sistpoty> christoph_debian: new packages are actually not easy, since these need to go through new in Ubuntu as well :( (and archive-admin's tend to focus on other work slightly before release)
<kees> dtchen: yeah, strcmp needs to be pointing at valid strings.  :P
<dtchen> kees: right, so in the stack trace for that bug, address is null, which makes me shake my head a little
<sistpoty> dtchen: afaik valgrind even warns if you pass a null pointer to a string function
<dtchen> sistpoty: indeed. unfortunately i'm awaiting the reporter's feedback for VG; i don't have a BT headset handy to reproduce it
<dtchen> kees: anyhoo, thanks for the sanity-check
<kees> dtchen: yeah, totally, no problemo
<christoph_debian> sistpoty: ah so ironically -- makes sense both ways from a technical point of view
<sistpoty> christoph_debian: probably (though I believe that packages in unstable are getting a much better treatment than the stuff that is directly uploaded)
<ari-tczew> sistpoty: thanks for the help, it's important. Learning from other experienced people is better than reading arts like wiki.
<ari-tczew> I added ChangeLog's diff to hugin request. Test for other lp's bugs I'll do later.
<sistpoty> thanks!
<sistpoty> christoph_debian: having taken a look at douf00, it seems to be a simple source package and packaging looks top-notch, so...
<sistpoty> christoph_debian: if you want it in, would you like to file a FFe for it?
<ari-tczew> sistpoty: can I set one of my ppas for public upload?
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: what do you mean with public upload?
<ari-tczew> libmaven packages is too much so not only me will be can upload packages to my-ppa (I have created ppa for maven)
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: I doubt you can set it to public, but I must admit that I don't have too much knowledge about PPAs
<ari-tczew> yhym OK
<lifeless> any sponsors around ?
<lifeless> s/sponsors/motu-archive/
<james_w> motu-release?
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> thats the one ;)
 * lifeless should grab some caffeine
<lifeless> bug 440976
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440976 in subunit "Sync subunit 0.0.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440976
<james_w> good morning
<lifeless> seeking ack
<lifeless> hi james_w , good morning to you :)
<james_w> lifeless: I advise you subscribe them in case two aren't hanging around right now
<james_w> lifeless: also, did the .so thing get sorted? I forgot to look at it today
<lifeless> requestsync does that :)
<james_w> nope
<lifeless> though its grabbed ubuntu-archive. bah
<lifeless> thanks for the suggestion, much needed
<james_w> also, they are going to want to know the stuff from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<james_w> like the features that you are asking for an exception for
<Laney> requestsync sometimes doesn't get the sponsor stuff right
<Laney> i dunno why
<james_w> lifeless doesn't need a sponsor
<Laney> oh, ffe?
<james_w> but I think requestsync has a flag for freeze exceptions?
<Laney> there's a flag for that
<Laney> -e
<lifeless> james_w: its bugfix only
<lifeless> ignore the version numbers ;)
<james_w> lifeless: in that case you don't need motu-release yet
<james_w> so this was all a round-about way of getting back where we started
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-03
<lifeless> so, I'm upstream; I rolled release of what was already in Ubuntu as ~68 or so; tested that in a PPA, pushed it to Debian
<lifeless> let it settle there
<lifeless> and now want it it Ubuntu, because it includes the perl modules, .pc file etc
<james_w> so it does have new features?
<lifeless> from the upstream perspective, no. Some things that weren't installed by the package are now [the perl module]
<james_w> ok, so motu-release will want to review
<sistpoty> lifeless: are you subscribed as bug contact and promise to fix things if they are broken?
<lifeless> sistpoty: is the moon in orbit?
<sistpoty> lifeless: good, than declare it as bug fix only, and go straight to ubuntu-archive ;)
<lifeless> sistpoty: I'm upstream; package it in Ubuntu, package it with Jelmer in Debian
<lifeless> mm
<lifeless> I'd rather err on caution here and use that card when I really have to :)
<christoph_debian> sistpoty: hm I'm looking at the doc currently
<sistpoty> haha
<sistpoty> christoph_debian: for new packages it basically calms down to why we want it and where to get from
<sistpoty> christoph_debian: bonus points for mentioning that you're packaging it in debian and will take care for ubuntu bugs as well ;)
<lifeless> urgh, autotools, sometimes, I hates you
 * JontheEchidna always hates autotools. cmake ftw
<lifeless> well, I just found that the .pc file generated contains
<lifeless> exec_prefix=${prefix}
 * sistpoty learnt to love autotools and hopes that now autotool will love him as well
<sistpoty> (which sadly isn't always the case)
<lifeless> which I'm now going to have to check works
<sistpoty> christoph_debian: of course mentioning some kind of testing would also be good (well, I've done that, so... ;))
<thiagocrepaldi> has anyone here able to ENABLE LdapAuthentication mediawiki-extension plugin ?
<thiagocrepaldi> "mediawiki-extension" package looks like debian/ubuntu specific, so i can't find help to configure it
<ari-tczew> is here? anyone
<ari-tczew> please check this bug: 421684 have someone got this bug?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Try it without the colon
<ScottK> thiagocrepaldi: You might get help in #ubuntu-server.  Not sure
<thiagocrepaldi> ScottK, for ow, no success =/
<thiagocrepaldi> now*
<thiagocrepaldi> and i checked that ubuntu-mot are the mediawiki-extensions's maintainer
<ari-tczew> ScottK: what is colon?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Instead of bug: 421684, bug 421684
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 421684 in linux "bluetooth send malformed files " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/421684
<ScottK> Then people have a better idea what you're asking about.
<ari-tczew> bug 421684
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 421684 in linux "bluetooth send malformed files " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/421684
<ari-tczew> OK
<ari-tczew> sorry for mistaking, it's my first day on irc
<ari-tczew> what is colon, ScottK ?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: colon is ";"
<ScottK> oops
<ScottK> That's semi-colon
<ScottK> colon is ":"
<ari-tczew> ah, OK
<sistpoty> lifeless: haha, regarding ScottK's comment :P
<lifeless> sistpoty: :P
<ari-tczew> english isn't my language
<ari-tczew> my fail :P
<lifeless> ScottK: so, I still need -archive to flip the bit.  Thats you isn't it?
<ScottK> lifeless: Needs someone with shell access.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: You are doing great.
<sistpoty> vorian: (| ScottK): bug #419465 looks kde-specific
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 419465 in plasma-widget-fancytasks "New upstream release plasma-widget-fancytasks 0.9.6" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/419465
<sistpoty> (/me is just going through the list, trying to get long-standing ones updated)
<lamont> sistpoty: I'll be bootstrapping it this weekend
<lamont> tonight is with family in a bit though
<sistpoty> \o/
<sistpoty> lamont: excellent, thanks a lot!
 * sistpoty goes to bed. gn8 everyone
<Laibsch1> can somebody please take the fix from 414537 from karmic and release it in jaunty?
<Laibsch> The fix for that bug is the only difference between the karmic and jaunty package
<Laibsch> bug 414537
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 414537 in isdnutils "{karmic] package ipppd 1:3.12.20071127-0ubuntu5 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 127" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414537
<Laibsch> bdrung_: ping.  Kannst Du das vielleicht noch machen?
<jdong> Laibsch: an excellent candidate for a StableReleaseUpdate
<jdong> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<jdong> if you can prep the writeup and debdiffs according to the instructions there, I'll take a look at it right away
<Laibsch> I'm sorry
<Laibsch> I'm taking an extended overseas trip on Monday
<Laibsch> I'm very short on time
<Laibsch> But the SRU should be more than straight-forward
<jdong> absolutely
<Laibsch> s/karmic/jaunty/ in the first line of the changelog is all that should be necessary
<Laibsch> And maybe not even that
<Laibsch> And regression potential is obviously 0
<jdong> indeed
<fabrice_sp__> jtimberman, about bug #420674. It's just a matter of waiting for an archive admin to perform the sync. Don't worry: it's on his way.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420674 in libmixlib-config-ruby "Please sync libmixlib-config-ruby 1.0.12-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420674
<randomaction> fabrice_sp: I redid the debdiff for ufraw
<fabrice_sp_> randomaction, ok. I'll have a look now
<fabrice_sp_> (waiting for a build to end :-) )
<AnAnt> Hello, do I need to file FFe for a new branding package ?
<AnAnt> it's an xsplash theme
<fabrice_sp_> randomaction, sounds good. I'll build, and if it installs, I'll upload. Thanks for your contrib! :-)
<fabrice_sp_> AnAnt, I think so (new package = new features)
<AnAnt> ok
<fabrice_sp_> randomaction, uploaded. Thanks!
<fabrice_sp_> no more fix to FTBFS to sponsor? :-D
<randomaction> good to have helpful upstreams :)
<fabrice_sp_> yep :-)
<fabrice_sp_> in general, it's good to have a look at upstream svn, to check if the bug is already fixed (others distros are using the latest c libs)
<randomaction> oh, in this case it was even imported into LP
<ripps> can someone help me use patches with a pacakge that doesn't use cdbs?
<lifeless> have you read the wiki page on patch systems?
<ripps> lifeless: I'm trying to implement a quilt patchsystem, and the wiki only explains how to do a simple patchsys. I know quilt includes a quilt.make, but I don't think it's working.
<lifeless> there are plenty of packages using quilt already
<lifeless> I'd cargo cult one of them
<lifeless> but not fakeraid, cause it does two builds and it a bit heinous
<RAOF> IIRC quilt.make basically gives you a patch: and unpatch: targets that DTRT.
<ripps> lifeless: you know a cdbs-less package using quilt?
<ripps> and then I keep reading something about usein --with-quilt with debhelper, but I don't know specifically where to put it or how
<ripps> ah, I think I know, I had to add something to build-stamp and clean
<lifeless> if you have time, see if there is a FAQ on quilt as patchsys, and if not, perhaps write onee up?
<lifeless> [e.g. on the patch systems page on the wiki]
<ripps> Okay, I added dh_quilt_patch and dh_quilt_unpatch to the rules. I had assumed that quilt.make would take care of everything, but I was wrong
<sebner> ripps: post your rules file somewhere
<ripps> sebner: I'm not certain it will work yet, but you just add one dh_quilt_patch before configure and dh_quilt_unpatch before dh_clean, whereever those are in your rules
<ripps> I put my dh_quilt_patch at the beginning of build-stamp: and dh_quilt_unpatch near the end of clean:
<sebner> ripps: not really needed. dh --with quilt $@
<ripps> sebner: that's if your using the super simple dh7 layout, the package I'm trying to modify already has a pretty complicated setup and I don't want to alter it too much.
<sebner> ripps: I personally also use --with quilt with big and not simple rules layouts ... paste you rules file somewhere ;)
<joaopinto> shouldn't all universe packages be maintained by MOTU ?
<joaopinto> I am looking at apparmor-profiles, it's universe by maintained by UCD
<directhex> bah, mysql won't start on my server after karmic upgrade
<directhex> found it. skip-bdb line in my.cnf kills mysql-server-5.1
<jdstrand> joaopinto: the source package for apparmor-profiles is 'apparmor'. 'apparmor' is one of those cases where it has packages in both universe and main
<jdstrand> joaopinto: if you want to make changes, file a bug against apparmor, attach a debdiff or link to a branch and we can get it merged
<mok0> Who has tried an update-manager upgrade jaunty -> karmc?
<mok0> Considering an upgrade of my production box but... you know
<bdrung> DktrKranz: your main email is  dktrkranz@ubuntu.com ?
<DktrKranz> bdrung: for ubuntu stuff yes
<bdrung> k
<bdrung> thx
<DktrKranz> np :)
<ScottK> mok0: I've upgraded from Jaunty to Karmic during the beta freeze.  My only problem was I upgraded off of a stale mirror and got a dead box due to an old KDM.  Once I coaxed it into life and got the updated one it was fine.
<jbernard_> mok0: I tried it 4 days ago and all went smooth
<soc1> hi
<soc1> can someone help me with a gnome app?
<soc1> i can't find that http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2009/07/26/re-adding-fonts-in-gnome/ app in the gnome source tree
<soc1> it _should_ be in gnome-control-center, but the changes there a at least 7 monts old ...
<soc1> btw, *.ttf-fonts get a thumbnail, *.otf-fonts don't get one, that's a bug, right?
<soc1> additionaly
<soc1> s/additionaly/additionally
<soc1> ttf is opened by gnome-font-viewer, otf not
<soc1> any ideas?
<wrapster> http://pastie.org/640490 thats the change log and line actually starts with a red highlight..
<wrapster> what does that mean?
<Amaranth> wrapster: if you mean the first line it could be because "unstable" isn't an Ubuntu release
<wrapster> no its not the first line its "* Added a return(0) to myk_mhz in myk_gem.c "
<wrapster> that line.. btw is the format im specifying matching to the standard?
<wrapster> or should i write in a different way?
<ScottK> wrapster: Did you use spaces or a tab?
<wrapster> tab
<ScottK> If you used a tab, that's the problem
<wrapster> which was set to 2
<wrapster> eiks!!
<ScottK> Needs to be spaces
<wrapster> ok
<ScottK> Gotta run
<wrapster> working now...
<wrapster> thanks
<wrapster> but i would like to know if the format i've followed is right?
<wrapster> dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${shlibs:Depends};;;;;  dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${misc:Depends} ---> while make this is a warning from the control file that im getting..is it a serious one? seconldy there are no dependency so should i yank that line out completely or can i specify something line NULL or null in Depends:
<maxb> wrapster: They are not serious, you should probably leave in misc:Depends ... and I thought newer debhelper tried to avoid that warning.
<maxb> It's reasonable to remove shlibs:Depends if your package contains no compiled code such that it's impossible for it to have a .so dependency
<wrapster> well nope.. for now i'll leave both in peace.
<wrapster> im building pkg out of tarballs for pkgs that are non exisitant so this is what i have in the chagnelog... "  * Initial release (Closes: #nnnn)  <nnnn is the bug number of your ITP>" what do i write here? or should it be left the way it is?
<wrapster> i can take that line out right?
<maxb> wrapster: Hm. I'm seeing code that claims to avoid the misc:Depends warning in the karmic version of debhelper
<wrapster> im not using karmic i guess then!!
<maxb> heh
<maxb> On the subject of changelogs - write anything you like, just make it meaningful.
<ari-tczew> hello all
<hyperair> hello
<fabrice_sp_> hello ari-tczew
<fabrice_sp_> do you have 5 minutes to speak about maven2?
<ari-tczew> yes
<fabrice_sp_> I tried earlier in the cycle to have the maven/plexus packages to work, and I had to stop, because it required some non maven2 package to be updated, and ttx didn't wanted to impact non maven packages because of maven
<fabrice_sp_> so, basically, if at some points you needs a non maven package, don't try to go further, and the sync won't be accepted
<fabrice_sp_> just wanted to warn you :-)
<fabrice_sp_> s/and/as/
<fabrice_sp_> one of them was google-collections-java, I think
<ari-tczew> sorry fabrice for non response
<ari-tczew> so it's not eay work
<ari-tczew> easy *
<wrapster> ive developed pkgs out of a few tarballs and all of them after installaion require a reboot.. is it safe to install em all first then reboot at once? or should i do it one by one?
<fabrice_sp_> ari-tczew, no, but the Debian packages has changed, so it may be possible now
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp_: what do you think, is it sense to work on maven?
<ari-tczew> from some comments is info, that maven from karmic is broken
<fabrice_sp_> ari-tczew, you could do a quick check on the required packages, and see if you would need a non maven package, because of a FTBFS. If it's the case, it's not worth trying to go further
<fabrice_sp_> yes: it's totally broken, but as I was saying before, it's known, and accepted by core-dev....
<fabrice_sp_> I mean: the risk of getting something other broken because of a bad sync is not worth the risk
<sistpoty> ?
<ari-tczew> ehh, now I'm busy and for the moment someone else can works on maven2
<sistpoty> imho we should fix maven, but we need to get a plan of what we need to sync, what needs to get through new (at least the split off core package) etc.
<ari-tczew> btw. Please MOTU review sync hugin request, now is complete informations: bug 439396
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439396 in hugin "[FFe] Sync hugin 0.8.0.dfsg-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439396
<ari-tczew> ack needed
<fabrice_sp_> sistpoty, I've exchanged some emails with ttx, and this what I've been told 2 times (I tried it 2 times :-) )
<fabrice_sp_> when I tried to fix them, I required at least 4 non maven packages
<sistpoty> fabrice_sp_: so you do have some overview of what's needed for maven already?
<sistpoty> fabrice_sp_: can you add that to the FFe bug please
<fabrice_sp_> sistpoty, I had all packages in my ppa, but deleted everything ... I only have the emails with ttx, that I will paste in the sync request, if it makes sense
<sistpoty> fabrice_sp_: that would be great, thanks!
<fabrice_sp_> ok. Thanks to you ;-)
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp_: hugin tested, works fine ;)
<ari-tczew> libpano needed
<fabrice_sp_> ari-tczew, you still need to convince 2 motu-release team member :-)
<ari-tczew> ACK right?
<fabrice_sp_> yes
<ari-tczew> status changed from Imcomplete to New, is this OK?
<fabrice_sp_> yes
<fabrice_sp_> do you have the maven2 sync bug request at hand?
<fabrice_sp_> I'll update it with the answer of ttx
<ari-tczew> yes, but it's made for all maven packages
<ari-tczew> bug 427539
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427539 in maven2 "[FFe] Sync libmaven packages from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427539
<fabrice_sp_> perfect :-) Thanks
<ari-tczew> np
<fabrice_sp_> ari-tczew, for Hugin, did you keep the patch I made to update default parameters?
<fabrice_sp_> it seems not, as I'm seen the bug as sync request
<fabrice_sp_> s/seen/seeing/
<ari-tczew> I did nothing on hugin! only send to ppa from unstable (debian/changelog changed)
<ari-tczew> Darxus tested it
<ScottK> sistpoty: hugin is probably something we want.
<fabrice_sp_> you need to perform the merge, then
<sistpoty> ScottK: *nod*, though I haven't looked in detail yet. libpano1 seems a non-brainer *if* we want hugin (only hugin as rdepends)
<ScottK> fabrice_sp_: Is it a merge or a sync?
<fabrice_sp_> it has to be a merge: the default pano software is not the same in Ubuntu than in Debian
<fabrice_sp_> libpano can be synced AFAIR
<ari-tczew> btw. it's nice that we can talk directly about bugs instead on LP
<fabrice_sp_> ari-tczew, it's quicker :-)
<fabrice_sp_> do you take the merge?
<ari-tczew> I can take this, but tell me what I need to do?
<ari-tczew> include patch, remove patch... ?
<fabrice_sp_> It seems that 2 motu-release agree that hugin 0.8.0 is a must-have :-)
<ari-tczew> yhym
<fabrice_sp_> !merge
<ubottu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<Darxus> Hi.
<fabrice_sp_> Hi Darxus
<Darxus> Wow, hugin 0.8.0 is actually going to make karmic?  Excellent.
<Darxus> Then it'll only be one major release behind :)
<Darxus> Let me know if I can help further.
<fabrice_sp_> Darxus, more testing after the merge :-)
<Darxus> Sure.
<Darxus> So Ari is doing the merge?
<fabrice_sp_> actually, the Debian version can't go as-is into Ubuntu
<fabrice_sp_> I think so: he is reading the merge guide now :-)
<fabrice_sp_> ari-tczew, do you confirm?
<Darxus> fabrice_sp_: Yeah I was testing the ubuntu 2009.2.0 version and its lack of automatic stitching is a real pain.
<fabrice_sp_> this was one of my first fix for Ubuntu :-D
<Darxus> fabrice_sp_: Making autopano work by default?
<fabrice_sp_> yes
<Darxus> fabrice_sp_: Nice, thanks :)
<fabrice_sp_> ;-)
<Darxus> I couldn't even figure out how to get any of those to work with the debian experimental package :(
<fabrice_sp_> I don't know for the 2009.2.0 version, but the other one has to be patched, and the patch has to be adapted for version 0.8.0
<fabrice_sp_> will have a look in the next dev. cycle
<Darxus> Right.
 * fabrice_sp_ is busy fixing FTBFS and sponsoring fixes
<Darxus> Cool.
<Darxus> Makes me a little nervous that so many such things are still open at this stage.
<Darxus> Hell, it makes me nervous that hugin 0.8.0 can be accepted after beta freeze without some kind of massive coordinated testing.
<fabrice_sp_> it has been some time in Testing, and no blocking bugs has been found
<ScottK> Darxus: It's a judgement call.  If we can get some reasonable testing, then we ought to have it.
<ScottK> If not, we won't.
<Darxus> Wow, Merge-O-Matic actually has hugin 0.8.0.
<fabrice_sp_> MoM has everything :-)
<ari-tczew> I didn't read megre docs, now I'm working on something for my daily-work, not for Ubuntu
<ari-tczew> give me time for this
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp_: So I must include patch from debian experimental to hugin 0.8.0, right?
<ari-tczew> wait... what about libpano? It needed first, before getting hugin
<fabrice_sp_> no: include the changes done on hugin 0.7.0 to 0.8.0, or at leas review them
<Darxus> # wc -l hugin_0.8.0.dfsg-2.patch
<Darxus> 238872 hugin_0.8.0.dfsg-2.patch
<Darxus> :(
<fabrice_sp_> include both in your ppa, and if testing is ok, the ack will go for both
<fabrice_sp_> Darxus, my changes can't be applied as-is to 0.8.0: the source patched has changed
<fabrice_sp_> I don't remember it to be as big as that :-/
<ari-tczew> heh, I'll review this later.
<ari-tczew> now I must go away, cya
<fabrice_sp_> bye
<Darxus> Why isn't hugin on https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html ?
<Darxus> Ohh, looks like the only merge conflict is in debian/control.
<sistpoty> Darxus: it was uploaded to unstable after the last run of MoM
<Darxus> sistpoty: Ah, thanks.
<fabrice_sp_> Darxus, could, but the patch won't apply
<fabrice_sp_> otherwise, it's a quite easy merge
<Darxus> And the only changes in debian/control are Build-Depends and Standards-Version.
<ScottK> What's the build-depends change?
<Darxus> "libpano13-dev" to "libpano13-dev (>= 2.9.14~0)", wx-common was removed, and libglew1.5-dev was added.
<Darxus> http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/libglew1.5-dev  exists.
<Darxus> So it looks like the only conflict can be resolved by just accepting the new stuff from debian?
<Darxus> Standards-Version: 3.8.0
<Darxus> Standards-Version: 3.8.3
<ScottK> Standards version we don't care about
<Darxus> I don't know what that means, but I'm going to guess, since these are the only changes, that it'll work :)
<ScottK> What that means is we need the newer libpano
<Darxus> Didn't we know that?
<ScottK> So if those are the only changes, we should be able to update libpano and then sync hugin.
<fabrice_sp_> yes: it won't build with the actual one
<ScottK> Yes, but that's what that means.
<Darxus> Right.  Cool.
<fabrice_sp_> no: there is still a patch to apply to hugin for Ubuntu
<fabrice_sp_> so sync for libpano and merge for Hugin
<fabrice_sp_> Darkus was jsut speaking about the conflict in the merge
<fabrice_sp_> 51_ubuntu-autopano-sift is the patch to keep. IIRC, 52_ubuntu_gcc44_ftbfs can be dropped
<fabrice_sp_> Darxus, ^
<Darxus> fabrice_sp_: Looking.
<Darxus> How sure are you?  :)
<fabrice_sp_> about keeping 51_ubuntu-autopano-sift ?
<fabrice_sp_> 100% :-)
<fabrice_sp_> I began to work on the merge some time ago, and got then distracted .-)
<Darxus> Man that's a small patch :)
<fabrice_sp_> yep: but the lines don't fit now
<Darxus> fabrice_sp_: How sure are you about dropping 52_ubuntu_gcc44_ftbfs?
<fabrice_sp_> hmm, 50% :-)
<Darxus> Oh.  I expected that to show up in MoM's report.
<Darxus> Hah.
<fabrice_sp_> I think all lines where fixed....
<fabrice_sp_> you can try, if you want, without the gcc 4.4 patch, and see if it compile
<Darxus> Ah, that makes sense.
<ScottK> Generally you can look at the source that the patch was touching and see.
<ScottK> Particularly in the case of GCC 4.4 compatibilty changes, it's usually pretty obvious.
<Darxus> #define HUGIN_APSIFT_EXE                      "autopano-sift-c.exe"
<Darxus> There's the problem.  In the upstream.
<fabrice_sp_> this one if for Windows
<Darxus> Ohh..
<fabrice_sp_> there is 3 blocks of parameters, and I patched only the unix one
<Darxus> Right.
<fabrice_sp_> :-)
<Darxus> Okay.  New debian patch:
<Darxus> -#define HUGIN_APSIFT_EXE                      "autopano-sift-c"
<Darxus> +#define HUGIN_APSIFT_EXE                      "autopano"
<fabrice_sp_> in my work in progress merge directory, I don't have the gcc patch, and I remember looking at the source one by one, so it should be safe to remove it. Anyway, new errors could come
<Darxus> Which makes your ubuntu patch not match:
<Darxus> -#define HUGIN_APSIFT_EXE                      "autopano-sift-c"
<fabrice_sp_> it should be autopano-complete
<fabrice_sp_> yes:
<fabrice_sp_> new parameters has been inserted
<Darxus> $ mv hugin-0.8.0.dfsg-2ubuntu1 ..
<Darxus> mv: cannot move `hugin-0.8.0.dfsg-2ubuntu1' to `../hugin-0.8.0.dfsg-2ubuntu1': Directory not empty
<Darxus> Since when?
<Darxus> Oh, nevermind.
 * fabrice_sp_ never moves directories :-)
<fabrice_sp_> have to go now
<Darxus> Okay, thanks.
<fabrice_sp_> Darxus, if you comes to some debdiff, post it in the bug report. Anyway, still miss one motu-release ack to be able to upload it. You should perhaps upload it to a ppa
<fabrice_sp_> so that more people can perform tests
<fabrice_sp_> bye :-)
<Darxus> "Generate a new merged source package using the merge-buildpackage script." doesn't appear to exist.
<Darxus> "It looks like this package is maintained in revision control:...You almost certainly don't want to continue without investigating."
<Darxus> Found merge-buildpackage :P
<Darxus> Wow, it built.
<Darxus> dput said it successfully uploaded to my ppa, but launchpad says there's nothing there.
<Darxus> $ dput ppa:darxus/hugin-0.8.0 hugin_0.8.0.dfsg-2ubuntu1_i386.changes
<Darxus> Successfully uploaded packages.
<ScottK> Darxus: Patience.
<Darxus> ScottK: Oh, it's doing something with them and they'll show up at some point in the future?
<Darxus> And there's no way I can check evidence of that?
<ScottK> Generally.
<ScottK> Every now and then, it loses packages, but not often
<Darxus> Hah.
<Darxus> Hah, upload rejected because it contains binary packages.
<Darxus> Rejected:
<Darxus> PPA uploads must be signed by an Ubuntu Code of Conduct signer.
<Darxus> So I signed the code of conduct.
<Darxus> And now dput won't let me upload it again.
<Darxus> "Already uploaded to ppa on ppa.launchpad.net"
<Darxus> Oh, I love force flags.
<sistpoty> Darxus: there should be a .upload file, remove that (or use dput -f)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-04
<Darxus> I merged hugin 0.8.0, posted debdiffs, and uploaded the packages to my ppa:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hugin/+bug/439396
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439396 in hugin "[FFe] Sync hugin 0.8.0.dfsg-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]
<Darxus> I wish I could get MoM to merge hugin from debian experimental.
<ebroder> I marked a (Triaged) bug as In Progress while I was working on it, and now I can't change it back to Triaged. What am I supposed to set the status to?
<ScottK> ebroder: First file a bug on Launchpad as you really ought to be able to undo a change you made.  Second give me the bug number and I'll do it.
<ebroder> ScottK: bug #435505
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435505 in system-config-printer "system-config-printer.py crashed with IOError in _report_traceback()" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435505
<ebroder> Although I was just about so sub ubuntu-main-sponsors if you want to sponsor me too :-D
<ScottK> ebroder: Done
<ScottK> Not right now.
<ScottK> Just found the right spot in the KDE api documentation and so I'm not going to switch tasks
<ebroder> Ok :)
<quidnunc> I have a package that I built that fails a depends (python < 2.6). What do I need to edit to make it accept python 2.6? The depends line in control says ${python:Depends}.
<quidnunc> My XS-Python-Version is >=2.5. There is no file called pyversions in debian.
<ScottK> quidnunc: Look to see if any of the python files in the package have a shebang that specifies python2.5
<quidnunc> ScottK: They are all /usr/bin/env python
<wrapster>  gyus i just built a few new driver pkgs.... after dpkg -i it asks me to reboot... but how do i verify after a reboot that the driver has been installed?
<quidnunc> The package is pyofa
<shakaran> Hi, how to generate a package for karmic and jaunty? I do this dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -k1DEEE63E with a debian/karmic/.... and debian/jaunty/... but it dont work
<quentusrex> shakaran:
<quentusrex> that happens....
<shakaran> more often...
<ScottK> Personally, I think non Ubuntu packages are a bit off topic here.
<ScottK> Not everyone agrees with that, however.
<shakaran> I want do a .deb for ubuntu jaunty (I made for karmic) but for jaunty dont work
<quentusrex> non ubuntu packages?
<shakaran> I try package a python program for jaunty
<shakaran> It's my program, dont belong to ubuntu (yet)
<quentusrex> shakaran: do you have a launchpad account?
<ScottK> quentusrex: If it isn't going into the Ubuntu archive, it's not an Ubuntu package.
<thiagocrepaldi> which tools is used on online ubuntu documentation (http://help.ubuntu.com) ? mediawiki ? moin moin ?
<quentusrex> ScottK, That's true... but people have to learn to package for ubuntu to be able to put it in the archive...
<shakaran> quentusrex: yes I have one: https://launchpad.net/~shakaran
<ScottK> quentusrex: That's true, but it isn't going into Jaunty, so how to get it to work on Jaunty is a bit irrelevant.
<shakaran> I want learn to package my program on several distribution (I did for karmic, only need also for jaunty)
<ScottK> OTOH, I don't object if other people care to volunteer their time this way
<quentusrex> :)
<quentusrex> I'm still trying to package freeswitch for hardy->karmic....
<quentusrex> since it only works properly on hardy...
<quentusrex> due to a kernel issue I think...
<shakaran> I do a manual for packaging: http://www.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&langpair=es%7Cen&u=http%3A%2F%2Fshakaran.es%2Fblog%2F2009%2F08%2Fcrear-paquetes-deb-de-codigo-python-en-ubuntu%2F
<shakaran> (sorry I wrote in spanish, but you can translate with google)
<shakaran> ubuntu-tweak make packaging for several distributions on ubuntu and in his .git he did a debian/karmic/... debian/jaunty/... etc and seems to work for him
<quentusrex> shakaran: if he did it that way then he has a script that copies the contents of those folders into the debian directory when building the packages...
<shakaran> http://github.com/tualatrix/ubuntu-tweak/tree/master/deb/ you see the folder deb/ and several distributions for changelogs
<shakaran> I trying to discovery how to work it, I only need some help
<pwnguin> is theree a feature freeze for universe?
<pwnguin> it seems like yes, but i thought there was a time where universe was ignoring freezes
<fabrice_sp_> pwnguin, there is
<fabrice_sp_> !FFe
<ubottu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<slacker_nl> fabrice_sp_: just the man I need
<slacker_nl> Is there any progress known about the sync request of guessnet? https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/guessnet/+bug/433677
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433677 in guessnet "Please sync guessnet 0.51-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<slacker_nl> I encountered another bug in guessnet (or so it seems) and was hoping 51-1 will fix it
<highvoltage> hi
<highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU says that the next MC meeting ison Thursday, 24 October
<highvoltage> but that's a Saturday.
<Laney> jpds: ^?
<Laney> I guess it means 22
<ScottK> quentusrex: Very low.
<AnAnt> Hello, if I add a new package to REVU, that closes an LP bug, should I set the status of the bug to fix committed ?
<AnAnt> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6920
<jbernard_> morning! ive attached a patch to bug #441395, if anyone has time to take a look
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 441395 in ksymoops "ksymoops FTBFS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441395
<av`> jbernard_, I see you made some changes to the B-D, but you didnt document them in changelog
<jbernard_> av`: B-D?
<av`> jbernard_, build-depends
<jbernard_> av`: ahh, ill fix that up
<jbernard_> av`: otherwise looks good?
<av`> jbernard_, didnt test it yet :)
<jbernard_> av`: cool
<av`> jbernard_, are you sure it FTBFS?
<jbernard_> av`: unless you're using a different binutils, it should fail
<av`> jbernard_, building it without / with your patch now
<jbernard_> av`: what version do you have, 2.4.11-1?
<av`> yes
<jbernard_> hmm. ill double check, was definately failing yesterday
<av`> jbernard_, im building it now, just a second
<jbernard_> still fails for me
<jbernard_> unpatched
<iulian> jbernard_, av`: I'm about to upload it.
<av`> jbernard_, yes, failed here
<av`> iulian, kk, please tell me you started to look at it some mins before I grabbed the sources :)
<jbernard_> ahh good, i thought i was loosing it there for a sec
<iulian> Uploaded.
<ari-tczew> is anyone working on bug 336418 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 336418 in lm-sensors-3 "Please merge lm-sensors 3.1.1-3 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336418
<iulian> jbernard_: Thanks.
<jbernard_> iulian: no problem, thanks!
<zooko> thank, you, fabrice_sp, for uploading pycryptopp-0.5.17!
<AnAnt> can someone review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sabily-xsplash-artwork ?
<fabrice_sp> zooko, you're welcome :-D Anyway, I've just acked the sync, so it still has to be performed by an archive admin
<ari-tczew> hello fabrice
<ari-tczew> I'm working on hugin's merge, look at launchpad
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, yes. I'm looking at it. It's not necessary to delete the 50_ patch from Debian: just let it in debian/patches
<fabrice_sp> anyway, as Darxus began to work on it, it would have be nicer to let him finish it, except if he didn't had time to do it.
<fabrice_sp> there is a lot of things to fix, so no need to 'fight' for a merge :-D
<ari-tczew> 50_ patch is not exist in series file, so it's not applied while building, right?
<fabrice_sp> exactly
<ari-tczew> Darxus needs time to learn about packaging ;)
<ari-tczew> it's not a fight, it's cooperation ;-)
<fabrice_sp> Darxus, agree with that?
<ari-tczew> if it is a fight, why I don't forget add Darxus changes into changelog?
<Darxus> fabrice_sp: I certainly have plenty of learning about packaging to do :)
<fabrice_sp_> Darxus, the merge was not that bad :-) it's only that you left a lot of stuff behind you, that you should have clean ;-)
<Darxus> ari-tczew: I think fabrice was saying that since deleting the 50 patch does not make any difference to the built packages, it's better to leave it in to reduce the difference from the debian package.
<Darxus> fabrice_sp_: I believe it, thanks.
<Darxus> I was really surprised the debdiff was so big.
<Darxus> That was only the second debdiff I built.  The other was for adding one line to an ubuntu specific wrapper in azureus.
<Darxus> fabrice_sp_: Should I test Ari's package?
<Darxus> Did he miss the one package version dependancy....
<ari-tczew> :>
<Darxus> Nope, it's good.
<Darxus> I was looking at the wrong line.
<Darxus> (Depends instead of Build-Depends)
<ari-tczew> yhym
<sharms> When someone gets a chance can they review the debdiff I attached to lp #423755
<hyperair> directhex: bug #442325
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423755 in grsync "grsync does not start - GTK critical error" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423755
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 442325 in podsleuth "[FFe] Sync podsleuth 0.6.5-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/442325
<sharms> As it is currently, grsync is completely broken without it, so would be cool to resolve that
<highvolt1ge> YokoZar: what do you think about reactos?
<ari-tczew> btw. I'm not unfriendly adjusted to new Ubuntu's contributors. I'm glad that we have new hands to work!
<directhex> hyperair, woo. i'm nto in ~motu-release though
<directhex> :'(
<directhex> no, wait, don';t take that as me volunteering to join!
<hyperair> directhex: you can give the MOTU ack ;-)
<directhex> oh, yes, so i can
<hyperair> so anyway, is anyone from ~motu-release around who can give acks to those?
<fabrice_sp_> Darxus, I think that we should test it, yes.
<Darxus> fabrice_sp_: Cool.
<fabrice_sp_> ari-tczew, did you rebuilt it with the change I mentioned?
<ari-tczew> did you mean about no deleting 50_ patch ?
<fabrice_sp_> yes
<Darxus> Cool.
<Darxus> Er, nevermind.
<Darxus> I'll wait for that.
<ari-tczew> not yet, but if it's no give difference, for what need rebuild?
<Darxus> ari-tczew: Smaller delta from debian, less to maintain in the future.
<Darxus> Smaller debdiff.
<ari-tczew> do you want debdiff or you preffer ready .deb files?
<ari-tczew> hugin in ppa waiting too long for build
<ari-tczew> quickly will be rebuild and upload .deb files for test
<hyperair> directhex: also, bug #442328
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 442328 in ipod-sharp "Sync ipod-sharp 0.8.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/442328
<hyperair> that one has no FFe.
<fabrice_sp_> Darxus, you can test the one in the ppa. The result will be enough for motu-release
<Darxus> fabrice_sp_: Yup.
<ari-tczew> what we are doing next?
<Darxus> fabrice_sp_: Er, the one available in his ppa is not the merged one.
<Darxus> Or is it?
<fabrice_sp_> ari-tczew, posting the result of the test. If it's ok, we should wait for another motu-release to ack it
<Darxus> It is the merged version, but it's not built.
<ari-tczew> do you want .deb files?
<ari-tczew> in ppa we'll a long time waiting for build
<fabrice_sp_> one day, yes :-/
<Darxus> fabrice_sp_: What should I be testing?
<Darxus> Should I wait for launchpad to build 0.8.0.dfsg-2ubuntu1~ppa1 in Ari's ppa?
<Darxus> Or patch the debian source package with his debdiff, and test that....
<ari-tczew> Darxus wait, I'll upload new debdiff (including patch 50_)
<ari-tczew> and now on my Ubuntu is building in progress
<soc> hi
<ari-tczew> I can send you .deb files
<ari-tczew> this way we not wasting time
<ari-tczew> hi soc
<soc> the package hplip has wrong dependencies
<soc> is there already a bug report?
<ari-tczew> I don't know, check on launchpad :)
<soc> i just wonder if that package is preinstalled ... because that will mean big trouble
<ari-tczew> soc: "subprocess failed error 1" or something... ?
<soc> no
<soc> the package has dependencies on qt4, dbus, and python which are not installed
<Darxus> ari-tczew: Want to attach the debs to the bug?
<ari-tczew> yes I can
<ari-tczew> brb
<soc> ari-tczew: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hplip/+bug/402959
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 402959 in hplip "hplip should depend on python-qt4 and python-qt4-dbus" [Undecided,New]
<soc> this is it
<Darxus> ari-tczew: Where's those debs?  :P
<ari-tczew> now I'm now uploading @launchpad, please w8
<ari-tczew> I've got small upload internet
<soc> hi
<soc> does someone know where the wallpaper of the gdm login screen is saved?
<ari-tczew>  /usr/share/gdm/themes/
<soc> ari-tczew: ah found it
<soc> no, that is the directory for the old gdm which is not used anymore
<soc> the right one now is /usr/share/images/xsplash
<soc> i guess all these "*-gdm-theme" should be removed, thy don't work anymore with the new gdm
<ari-tczew> so please request a wish on launchpad :)
<ari-tczew> Darxus: Uploaded. I think that bug request need got clean about attachments.
<Darxus> You should attach a debdiff for those too.
<ari-tczew> Darxus: Are you agree with delete your not-usefully debdiffs?
<Darxus> ari-tczew: Yes.
<ari-tczew> OK, I'm now going clean up and please test .debs ;-)
<Darxus> I am.
<quentusrex> Anyone know if there is any magic done to restart an application during an upgrade?
<Darxus> ari-tczew: Why did you unassign yourself?
<Darxus> ari-tczew: And the status should definitely not be "new".
<ari-tczew> it's needed for review by MOTU
<ari-tczew> read ubuntu's wiki
<Darxus> Ah, weird, thanks.
<ari-tczew> np
<Darxus> Should the status be new then?
<Darxus> Seems like it should be "confirmed" (which is why I changed it).
<ari-tczew> New status says that bug require review
<ari-tczew> if we'll got, reviewers will change status to Confirmed
<ari-tczew> then sponsors can upload packages which have got status "Confirmed" (ACKnowledge by MOTU)
<ari-tczew> I need review complete FFe request: bug 427886
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427886 in kadu "[FFe] Sync kadu 0.6.5.3-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427886
<Darxus> ari-tczew: You're doing two FFes at once?
<ari-tczew> yes, why not?
<Darxus> I'm just confused enough trying to follow one :)
<ari-tczew> sometimes I'm working on more than 2 bugs :P
<ari-tczew> okay, now I'm switching to jaunty, test SRU for kadu
<ari-tczew> bye
<sharms> fabrice_sp_: I am going to fix that grsync patch, but the importance for that package shouldnt be wishlist because the program fails to operate without the change
<sharms> fabrice_sp_: for lp #423755
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423755 in grsync "grsync does not start - GTK critical error" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423755
<quentusrex> Anyone know how to fix it so that even if changing the ownership fails, it won't kill a package upgrade?
<quentusrex> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/freeswitch-lua_1.0.4+repack8-0ubuntu15071.0~hardy_amd64.deb (--unpack):
<quentusrex>  error setting ownership of `./opt/freeswitch/conf/autoload_configs/lua.conf.xml': Operation not permitted
<quentusrex> ?
<sharms> fabrice_sp__: I updated the package so let me know if that looks good to you if you get a chance
<fabrice_sp__> sharms, ok. I'll have a look tomorrow
<Kano> hi, i would add this to karmic
<Kano> http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/o/opencore-amr/opencore-amr_0.1.2-1.dsc
<Kano> then compile a new mplayer against it
<Kano> in order to have got amr support (mostly for handy videos with 3gp)
<fabrice_sp_> !info opencore-amr
<ubottu> Package opencore-amr does not exist in jaunty
<fabrice_sp_> Kano, the source is on karmic.
<Kano> thats the replacement for the older nonfree amr libs
<Kano> fabrice_sp_: but not the package
<Kano> libopencore-amrnb-dev
<Kano> search for this for example
<fabrice_sp_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+package/libopencore-amrwb0
<Kano> then your packages.u.c is outdated
<fabrice_sp_> look there: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opencore-amr/0.1.2-1
<Kano> why is it not on the normal position in puc?
<fabrice_sp_> don't know. Sometime, p.u.c is slow to update
<YokoZar> highvolt1ge: I think ReactOS is unlikely to be useful compared to Wine/Linux since the amount of hardware that needs Windows drivers is declining faster than the ReactOS kernel is improving
<Kano> that must be really slow... so it is already installable?
<Kano> mplayer is definitely not linked against it
<fabrice_sp_> Kano, they don't seem to be installable ATM
<fabrice_sp_> perhaps, sitting in the new queue
<fabrice_sp_> sharms, the patch looks really ugly. What about putting the file in the debian directory, and copying it in the rules file?
<lfaraone> james_w: Would it be unlikely for there to be a sugar-* FFE this time around? Should I bother requesting one?
<NetSKaVeN> hell-o!
<james_w> lfaraone: no idea, speak to someone on the release team
<lfaraone> james_w: mk. right now it's totally borked.
<vigo> Hello, is there an existing or working Speech Input pkg?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-04
<ari-tczew> hello
<ari-tczew> dholbach: could you run update sponsoring overview?
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> ari-tczew, it's a cronjob that runs every 10 minutes
<ari-tczew> dholbach: are you sure? Last updated at: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:24:59 +0000
<dholbach> well 15
<dholbach> if not if failed
<micahg> dholbach: bug 653952 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653952 in Ubuntu QA Website "Sponsoring page has not been updated since Friday Oct 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653952
<dholbach> ok, found the bug - brb
<micahg> dholbach: and good morning BTW :)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: ^^
<dholbach> ari-tczew, I'm on it - take it easy
<ari-tczew> dholbach: ok :)
<dholbach> if anyone would have tried to run the script locally the bug would've been obvious
<ari-tczew> why this cycle will be released faster than previous releases? (10th, not 29th)
<dholbach> ari-tczew, because 101010 (base 2) is 42
<ari-tczew> dholbach: ?
<dholbach> 10.10.2010
<ari-tczew> dholbach: ah, due to special release date?
<dholbach> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_from_The_Hitchhiker's_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#The_number_42
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> micahg, ari-tczew: fixed
<ari-tczew> thanks dholbach :)
<micahg> dholbach: thanks
<ari-tczew> dholbach: curiosity question: you removed ubuntu-universe-sponsors, why not ubuntu-main-sponsors?
<ari-tczew> dholbach: btw you should set as merged https://code.launchpad.net/~stefanor/ubuntu-sponsoring/no-more-universe-sponsors/+merge/37356
<dholbach> ari-tczew, I dunno why u-m-s still exists
<dholbach> ari-tczew, I didn't check my mail yet and didn't see the merge proposal
<dholbach> ari-tczew, within seconds after I joined IRC you jumped on me with the request to fix it
<dholbach> and I had a few other complications here, etc - I'll dive into mails now
<ari-tczew> dholbach: ah :) what do you think about add branch info to bottom page like on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/main.html
<ari-tczew> Updated: 2010-10-04 05:14 UTC (commit 3048)
<ari-tczew> and there is a link to source code
<dholbach> ari-tczew, please file a bug or even better, attach a pat ch
<dholbach> I won't have time for it in the next weeks
<ari-tczew> understand
<ari-tczew> dholbach: curiosity question: why did you merge main&universe sponsors to ubuntu-sponsors?
<dholbach> ari-tczew, because of archive reorganisation
<dholbach> ari-tczew, theoretically (because of all the packagesets, etc.) we would have to have 4292469426 individiual sponsoring teams for all kinds of packagesets/components - that doesn't make sense
<dholbach> also does it make the process for the 'end user' a lot more complicatedâ¦ having to remember which team to use for which purpose - it's not really obvious anyway
<dholbach> also was it done for ubuntu-sru and ubuntu-release
<ari-tczew> dholbach: with bdrung we want to create a policy about contributing MOTU to main sponsoring.
<dholbach> ari-tczew, I'm not sure I understand
<micahg> ari-tczew: not just MOTU, any -dev in theory
<micahg> dholbach: I think ari-tczew is referring to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-September/031519.html
<ari-tczew> dholbach: what is different between core-dev and motu? upload access. but as micahg said, -dev (MOTU including) developers can review subscribed bugs - e.g. check patch for correct policy, suggest changes and add a tag 'reviewed-by-motu' or something. then core-dev can check which bug is closer to sponsor.
<dholbach> ah ok, I see
<dholbach> it'd be good to update the sponsoring overview to indicate that a motu already reviewed it
<ari-tczew> micahg: exactly.
<micahg> dholbach: well, it already notes if a dev w/out uploads rights commented last
<dholbach> yes
<micahg> but I guess that's not really enough
<ari-tczew> dholbach: your feedback is welcome @ these mail lists :)
<ari-tczew> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-September/031533.html
<dholbach> ari-tczew, I came back after 3 weeks of holidays - it's not the only mail I got - I got thousands
<dholbach> ari-tczew, plus I have lots of other things to get done quickly - I'm a bit of a hectic
<ari-tczew> dholbach: sorry, I don't want stress you.
<dholbach> no worries
<ari-tczew> also I want to get to know Laney 's feedback on mail lists ^^
<Laney> looks ok
<Rhonda> uhm
<Rhonda> Can someone check what a removal of boost1.40 from maverick might affect?
<Rhonda> Or â¦ is there an easy way for myself to check that?
 * Rhonda . o O ( Rhonda: You usually brag around using grep-dctrl, why don't you do it this time? )
<Rhonda> dammit
<Rhonda> And no, that's no !omg. That's a package name that depends on libboost-filesystem1.40.0 in maverick. %-)
<Rhonda> I guess it's definitely too late in the release to request removal of boost1.40 and request rebuilds against boost1.42 for all those packages that currently use boost1.40?
<Rhonda> ScottK? cjwatson?
<pwuertz> hi, I'm trying to debianize an application by using this dh_make tool. When I run debuild the process stops when trying to install the files.. as the install process tries to modify files on my actual root system.
<pwuertz> Isn't fakeroot supposed to prevent that? How can I fix this?
<tumbleweed> pwuertz: firstly #ubuntu-packaging is the right channel for this. second: fakeroot just pretends to be root, doesn't let you write all over the filesystem. Your buildsystem clearly isn't respecting DESTDIR http://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/DESTDIR.html
<cjwatson> Rhonda: sounds implausible that we could get that all done in time
<cjwatson> Rhonda: http://paste.ubuntu.com/505637/ is what the archive admin tool for this says
<cjwatson> ok, some of those will be dependencies within the source package, but still ...
<Rhonda> I only now noticed (because it's also in lenny-backports), but yeah, too late.
<Rhonda> Should be first thing to do in nutty me thinks. :)
<Rhonda> Erm, that typo wasn't on intention. %-)
<nigelb> Rhonda: heh, nutty :p
<ScottK> Rhonda: Keeping Boost 1.40 is intentional.  Since we don't want openmpi in Main, the Boost in Main has the MPI bits removed.  There was user demand for that, so we decided to keep an older Boost in Universe with those bits all present.
<ScottK> Moving as much as we can to 1.42 would still be good though.
<ScottK> cjwatson: ^^^ FYI.
<Rhonda> So will it be kept around for natty, too?
<cjwatson> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> Rhonda: Probably.
<ScottK> (unless some new Boost appears, which I expect is unlikely with Debian in Freeze)
<Rhonda> ScottK: Never say never, the release might happen. ;D
<directhex> yay openmpi
<ari-tczew> are there any list who from ubuntu-dev is Debian Developer?
<geser> ari-tczew: http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/977240439/developers-with-feet-in-debian-and-ubuntu
<ari-tczew> geser: would be nice to create a team on Launchpad and adding there these people.
<ari-tczew> jcastro: what do you think about it? ^^
<jcastro> the plan was adding a query to UDD iirc
<jcastro> because there's no team for DDs in launchpad afaik
<cjwatson> I recommend against creating one too.  It would be a hideous pain to keep up to date.  Teams should actually be used for something, not just be an artifice for gathering statistics
<directhex> i'm a DD, if that counts
<cjwatson> you're listed in Jorge's post which geser linked to above
<jcastro> it's a simple UDD query, I just haven't followed up with lucas on it.
<cjwatson> huh, there actually is a 'debiandevelopers' team.  And indeed it's hopelessly out of date ...
<jcastro> ari-tczew: the only recent change I am aware of is the addition of lfaraone
<jcastro> I believe UDD gets the info right from the debian ldap so it's likely the most accurate
<jcastro> I'd like to have a graph that tracks it over time, would be interesting to see
 * Laney is a directhex developer
<nigelb> cjwatson: perhaps a script that updates the team with the results of udd query?
<Laney> what is the point of the team?
<jcastro> yeah, leave it in udd, it's what it's there for
<cjwatson> nigelb: experience suggests that people get upset with being non-consensually added to teams when they don't even want to use Launchpad
<nigelb> cjwatson: oh, I forget that.  Indeed.
<cjwatson> they got upset enough at having userids automatically created (in order that LP could accurately represent their uploads and such)
<kklimonda> hmm, am I the only one who gets some mails from ubuntu mailing lists with a long delay?
<kklimonda> or do they just end up in a moderation queue?
<cjwatson> some Ubuntu lists are moderated
<cjwatson> perhaps you're referring to ubuntu-devel, where I just did a moderation pass
<kklimonda> :)
<kklimonda> indeed
<kklimonda> cjwatson: I was under the impression that all mails from @ubuntu.com adress are sent immediately and bypass the queue?
<Laney> is the point of the moderation spam reduction, content moderation, or both?
<cjwatson> kklimonda: a mistaken impression
<cjwatson> Laney: both.  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-December/000227.html
<ari-tczew> cjwatson, Laney: hmm, not really statistic point. if someone want forward changes to package in Debian, which is QA, then could look to LP team who can upload the patch
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: I think the point that it is pretty much guaranteed to annoy people is more important
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: like last time, I asked you for forward changes to palo.
<Laney> ari-tczew: we have #debian-ubuntu and derivatives@d.o for something like that
<cjwatson> (even if you don't think they should be annoyed)
<Laney> cjwatson: Oh OK, I was going to suggest whitelisting signed mail, but obviously not
<josephnexus> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/funguloids/+bug/654604
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 654604 in funguloids (Ubuntu) "funguloids segaults when trying to start a game" [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> kklimonda: mails from people in ubuntu-dev are supposed to bypass ubuntu-devel moderation
<josephnexus> is a bug that affects the recently made installable package
<ari-tczew> Laney: wow, 3 users!
<cjwatson> (it's a cron job run by sysadmins so I can't easily tell whether it's working or not; it has been working at some points)
<Laney> ari-tczew: OFTC
<Laney> (no need to be rude)
<jcastro> the bridge is broken or something
<ari-tczew> Laney: what is OFTC?
<Laney> an IRC network. irc.oftc.net
<ari-tczew> Laney: ok, now seems to be OK. thanks
<ari-tczew> Laney: I thought that it's an acronym like STFU or something.
<Laney> ah, well now you know
<kklimonda> cjwatson: thanks for the clarification
<kklimonda> damn, 73 unread emails and I've just cleaned up my inbox today :/
<jpds> kklimonda: You didn't clean it up well enough.
 * iulian nods.
<iulian> Hey Jon.
<kklimonda> jpds: I blame Colin for cleaning up the moderation queue ;)
<ari-tczew> jcastro: what do you think about wrap fullnames on your blog? I mean about debian/ubuntu developers
<ari-tczew> for better looking
<zooko> Dear #ubuntu-motu folks, see this nice table: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/wiki/OSPackages
<iulian> Looks nice indeed.
<zooko> iulian: thank you for your help way back when with Tahoe-LAFS v1.6 (?) in Jaunty (?). :-)
<ari-tczew> zooko: do you suggesting old version in Ubuntu? ;)
<iulian> Yea... don't mention it.  I apologies I couldn't work on it this cycle.
<fabrice_sp> Hi. I'm working with enna upstream, to get it fixed in Maverick, but this would require to sync 4 packages from Debian (some have just been uploaded and others are being uploaded to debian). What would be the right place to speak about feasibility?
<iulian> I'm really busy these days...
<zooko> ari-tczew: I don't understand the question.
<zooko> xb
<zooko> oops on the "xb" that was a typo
<ari-tczew> zooko: nevermind :)
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: sync to main or universe?
<micahg> fabrice_sp: you might want to ask in -release
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, universe
<fabrice_sp> micahg, ok.
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: then shouldn't be problem
<fabrice_sp> anyway, I've just seen a email saying that hte release has not been tested, so I would refrain from requesting the sync
<fabrice_sp> but we won't have an enna package
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: ah, so this is a sync of new package?
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: I would upload a new package (from revu, not from Debian) and I must wait for natty, then upload through backport to maverick.
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, 3 libs upgrade, 2 of which changes API and the binary
<fabrice_sp> The sync will happen in Natty, and I will rpopose the backport to upstream, after some testing happens
<micahg> fabrice_sp: you know enna is in the archive, right?
<fabrice_sp> micahg, yes. I'm trying to get it fixed, but it seems a bit late
<fabrice_sp> it's not even installable right now
<micahg> fabrice_sp: k, yeah, I'd check with the release team
<fabrice_sp> ok. Thanks
<ajmitch> how many packages would need to be rebuilt for it?
<fabrice_sp> none
<fabrice_sp> the libs are only used in enna
<ajmitch> so the libraries that would be updated don't change SONAME?
<ajmitch> ah, useful
<ajmitch> you're probably a little more likely to get it approved
<ajmitch> still slim, but possible :)
<fabrice_sp> they do, but the only rdepends I saw is enna
 * ari-tczew is going to triage a couple of bugs till maverick final release.
<fabrice_sp> yeah, I know :-)
<ajmitch> archive should be closed for upload pretty soon
<micahg> ajmitch: wed at noon UTC is unseeded freeze
<ajmitch> right
 * ajmitch was just hunting for the mail that mentioned it
 * ajmitch seems to have a lot of ubuntu-devel mail to read this morning
<micahg> ajmitch: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-September/000764.html
<ajmitch> ta :)
<fabrice_sp> backport seems to be the only solution, right now
<ajmitch> SRU team probably wouldn't approve it?
<fabrice_sp> too many changes
<ari-tczew> what is the different between FTBFS and NBS?
<micahg> ari-tczew: NBS, is a binary that's no longer buildable from source
<Rhonda> FTBFS means that the source doesn't build anymore, usually because of missing Build-Depends or toolchain changes.
<Rhonda> And NBS is an old binary package that got removed in newer versions of the source package still sitting in the pool, all by itself, alone, crying and nowhere to turn to.
<fabrice_sp> also, NBS indicates rdepends that has not been rebuilt
<ari-tczew> aha
<Rhonda> ahyes.
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: Do you know what bilalakhtar might have meant with the offensive words message, to ask me about it? Because I can't remember. :)
 * fabrice_sp has been rebuilding more than 50 packages to reduce the NBS list ;-)
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: I don't want be informant :P
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: http://paste.ubuntu.com/505961/
<Rhonda> I read the context but still don't know what he was refering to, but yes, you surely can't know neither, I should ask him. :)
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: That's right, I dunno what's going on :P
 * ari-tczew can't wait for open natty archive.
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, there still work to do on Maverick :-P
<fabrice_sp> s/there/there is/
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: but more restricted :(
<fabrice_sp> hmm,. more focused :-)
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: we will start natty with less to-merge packages than maverick started
<fabrice_sp> not for me: I uploaded a lot of packages lately that I will have to check (sync or merge) for NAtty
<fabrice_sp> basically, to fix FTBFS or non installable packages
<ari-tczew> sigh
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Not suprising.  Since Debian is frozen now, the pace of uploads to Debian will be reduced.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: when Debian will be open?
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: after squeeze release
<ScottK> The answer to your next question is "When it's ready".
<kklimonda> :)
<Rhonda> According to lucas' udd bug query it might be as far or as short of 172 RC bug fixes away. ;)
 * Rhonda . o O ( ignoring all pending, patch and security tagged RCs )
<ari-tczew> I think that -buildX shouldn't be included in Merge-o-Matic.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: You are correct.  Patches welcome.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: ha-ha-ha :P
<micahg> ScottK: do I need a release team ack to reenable JavaScript in mediatomb (it was disabled to drop the build-dep on xulrunner, but the people want it reenabled, so I was going to make it work with xulrunner + wrapper) bug 568275
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568275 in mediatomb (Ubuntu Lucid) "No JS in 0.12.0~svn2018-6ubuntu2" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568275
<ScottK> Was it disabled in Maverick or Lucid?
<micahg> ScottK: lucid
<ScottK> So it's not a regression for Maverick.
<ScottK> Technically yes.
<ScottK> Go ahead though (there's your release team ack), but please test carefully.
<micahg> ScottK: k, thanks
<ari-tczew> ScottK: what do you think about merge epiphany-browser? It's in universe and merge could fix one bug which causes crash.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: No opinion.  If you think it's an important bug fix and it's not seeded, go ahead.
<ChogyDan> hey folks, deluge has a major issue that stops it from working.  There is a fix.  Should I just file a bug report?
<ari-tczew> ChogyDan: do you have a patch?
<ChogyDan> ari-tczew: http://code.google.com/p/libtorrent/issues/detail?id=112
<ChogyDan> I applied the patch locally, and deluge is now running without incident
<ari-tczew> ChogyDan: which Ubuntu have you run?
<ChogyDan> this is just an issue with maverick
<ari-tczew> ChogyDan: ah, fine. could you prepare a debdiff?
<ChogyDan> ari-tczew: hmmm, any directions on how to do that?
<ari-tczew> ChogyDan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/Debdiff
<ari-tczew> ChogyDan: but if you feel not strong to prepare a debdiff, I can do it, upload to PPA, you will test it for feedback.
<ChogyDan> one sec
<ari-tczew> just file a bug, attaching a patch.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: around yet?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-05
<ChogyDan> ari-tczew: ok, I think I have a debdiff.  Should I follow the sponsorship page next?
<ari-tczew> ChogyDan: yes. It's easy. just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to your filed bug.
<ChogyDan> ari-tczew: ok, will do, thanks
<matttbe> Hello!
<matttbe> We're looking for a sponsorship in order to accept a few modifications about Cairo-Dock project in Ubuntu Maverick
<matttbe> It's a bugs fixed version: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cairo-dock/+bug/653702
<matttbe> Is it possible to have some help? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653702 in cairo-dock-plug-ins (Ubuntu) "Please update cairo-dock to the final 2.2.0~4 version (bugs fixed)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<matttbe> Everything should be ok (two branches are ready and they can be merged into lp:ubuntu/cairo-dock and lp:ubuntu/cairo-dock-plug-ins) :)
<ari-tczew> matttbe: it's a new upstream release?
<matttbe> ari-tczew: yes it is
<ari-tczew> matttbe: are there any new features?
<ari-tczew> like important UI/API changes
<matttbe> Of course not ;)
<matttbe> it's just a bugs-fixed version (from 2.2.0~2 => 2.2.0~4)
<ari-tczew> matttbe: what tested have you done
<ari-tczew> ?
<matttbe> ari-tczew: this version is available from our repository and our ppa
<ari-tczew> matttbe: I don't have time for testing it.
<matttbe> no but it seems that this version fixes all bugs that we have listed
<ari-tczew> matttbe: words do not give a guarantee of stability
<matttbe> ari-tczew: and it fixes this bug (Importance: high) https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/cairo-dock-plug-ins/+bug/653336
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653336 in cairo-dock-plug-ins (Ubuntu) "All .mo files aren't installed into the right directory" [Undecided,In progress]
<matttbe> ari-tczew: of course :)
<matttbe> but yes this version has been tested by a lot of people :)
<ari-tczew> matttbe: 8	-set (VERSION "2.2.0-0rc1")
<ari-tczew> hmmm it seems to, that we have current rc version?
<matttbe> ari-tczew: yes, it seems the branch has not been updated
<ari-tczew> matttbe: that's right. cairo-dock exist on http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<ari-tczew> matttbe: please subscribe ubuntu-sponsors then
<matttbe> oh, so it's not ubuntu-release? :)
<ari-tczew> matttbe: ubuntu-release is for review for ACK. your package is bug-fix release, not necessary to get an ACK from ubuntu-release, because cairo-dock is in universe.
<micahg> ari-tczew: actually, because it's in universe and unseeded
<matttbe> oh yes, sorry
<ari-tczew> ChogyDan: where do you have filed bug?
<ChogyDan> ari-tczew: sorry, I haven't filed one yet.  I was waiting for it to build in ppa
<ari-tczew> ChogyDan: you can use locally pbuilder.
<ChogyDan> ari-tczew: well, I built it locally in a hacky manner, some sort of debuild -i -b command.  and it seemed to be working
<ChogyDan> ari-tczew: Im working on bug 654906
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 654906 in deluge (Ubuntu) "infinite loop/memory and refuses to close" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/654906
<ari-tczew> ChogyDan: your debdiff not looks good.
<ChogyDan> ari-tczew: :)
<ari-tczew> ChogyDan: if you want to process sponsorship, please don't include ~ppa in versioning. just 0ubuntu2 is enough
<ari-tczew> ChogyDan: and you should add a patch. I think that you've changed the source code directly.
<ChogyDan> ari-tczew: yeah, I don't really know anything about debdiffs, or sponsorship
<ChogyDan> yeah
<ari-tczew> ChogyDan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<ChogyDan> ari-tczew: ok, so I think I edited the patch ok.  I got it to work with the edit-patch command.  But now, when I debuild -S, it complains that the patch is already applied, which is true
<ChogyDan> anyway, I gota go get some dinner.  Ill take a second look later
<ari-tczew> ChogyDan: I must go to bed, maybe tumbleweed will help in future.
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> I'm reading the font license and am a bit puzzled with term 2 about the font name. It both requires strong "must" statements for either having to carry the name, or for having to rename it, based on "substantially changes" which is far from clear and could cause serious troubles for people changing the font and not knowing wether it's considered substantially by the terms of the license or not.
<vish> sladen: ^^
<sladen> Rhonda: 'Substantial Changes' is defined further up the licence;  see the http://font.ubuntu.com/ufl/ofl-1.1-ufl-1.0.diff.html
<Rhonda> sladen: Ah, missed that. Still sounds a bit fuzzy, to be honest. What if one changes a single character? Would that be considered already substantially? Especially if it's an uncommon character?
<sladen> Rhonda: however, that is the first-shot at an interim licence, and feedback is greatly welcomed
<Rhonda> Feel free to consider this as feedback that I see this term parts as being a can of worms for those that think about changes. :)
<sladen> Rhonda: that's the point isn't it;  you can decide and if somebody disagrees, you go to court to find out
<Rhonda> That's not the way licenses work.
<Rhonda> Especially not when it carries out a "you must change the name to this if you do that, or you must change the name to that if you do something else".
<sladen> Could you file it on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-font-licence/+filebug
<Rhonda> The must requirement has to be clear.
<Rhonda>  Ubuntu Font Licence  does not use Launchpad as its bug tracker.
<Rhonda> sladen: That link doesn't work. ;)
<sladen> Rhonda: hold, I've poked Mark to config bugs on there
<Rhonda> Sweet, nice greetings. ;)
<sladen> Rhonda: your wish is sabdfl's command:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-font-licence
<Rhonda> heh :)
<sladen> Rhonda: (bearing in mind that I did not write the UFL, and that it originates in the OFL and those suggested by the SFLC (the same people who authored GPLv3)
<sladen> Rhonda: ...those changes suggested...
<Rhonda> I don't blame anyone here, that's not my intention, so no need to defend. :)
<sladen> Rhonda: "Substially Changed" is (like a lot of legal terms) defined on whether your average Jo or Mary on the street could tell the difference
<sladen> Rhonda: (average Jos and Marys being the same people who sit on jury panels)
<Rhonda> sladen: average Joe and Mary could live in a complete different country and are exposed to different subsets of the font only.
<sladen> Rhonda: it hopefully discourages asking a lawyer what it means, because if you Aunt Tilly can tell the difference, it probably is "Substantially Changed"
<Rhonda> Including like adding glyphs for characters that aren't included yet. Such moves could be aswell be considered substantial.
<sladen> Rhonda: yup, internationalisation /is important/ (which is why "Propagate" is used---it's basically the same language as the GPLv3)
<Rhonda> Even (or especially?) if they are done in the spirit of the font.
<sladen> Rhonda: did you, out of interest, have a script in mind for adding?
<sladen> Rhonda: (this is a UFF thing, rather than a UFL thing, I appreciate)
<Rhonda> sladen: No, but wesnoth started to discuss adopting it and thus I took a look at the license to find this part that I consider troublesome to go with and thus would like to have clearified before suggesting either way.
<Rhonda> That will have to get postponed until asian glyphs are in the font anyway, but rather safe than sorry. :)
<Rhonda> sladen: alright, bug #655096 has it for now. Thanks for listening. :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 655096 in Ubuntu Font Licence "unclear wording in license with respect to MUST terms" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655096
<bdrung> anyone here who have time for working on fixing FTBFSes (bug #654635)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 654635 in xmp (Ubuntu) "audacious plugin failures with audacious (>= 2.4)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/654635
<bdrung> i don't have enough time to work on these.
<sladen> Rhonda: "Asian scripts" is a lot, any in particular?  Thai, Davengari, Chinese, ...?
<sladen> Rhonda: it would help to know where to focus
<Rhonda> sladen: Then languages listed in http://gettext.wesnoth.org/ ;)
<Rhonda> Japanese for a start, and zh_CN
<sladen> Rhonda: okay, zh_CN will take a while (47,000 characters, or which 4,000-5,000 are needed)
<Rhonda> sladen: Right. Maybe we could extract the ones needed by wesnoth from out po files? :P
<sladen> Rhonda: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-font-family/+filebug?field.tags=ttf-expansion&field.title=Please%20support
<sladen> Rhonda: what would be a good starting point, yes
<sladen> Rhonda: that would be
<sladen> Rhonda: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-font-family/+filebug?field.tags=uff-expansion&field.title=Please%20support
<Rhonda> :)
<Rhonda> sladen: I guess I won't really drop a Please Support for the regular european latin languages, right? :)
<sladen> Rhonda: only if a character isn't supported for a particular script!
<Rhonda> Is there an easy way to check for that?
<sladen> Rhonda: the idea is to bring up a particular script at a time;  some of these will need just one, or two glyphs adding to support them
<Rhonda> Right. German has me thinks 7 additional characters.
<sladen> Rhonda: I guess what I should (automatically) publish is a simple output listing of what codepoints are covered (there are !1,243 I think so far)
<Rhonda> Sweet. :)
<sladen> Rhonda: what you could do is develop a script that outputs the characters used in those wosnoth translations
<sladen> Rhonda: a list of all the (unicode) codepoints used;  and which for which languages
<sladen> Rhonda: as I suspect that the translations are a pretty good corpus for "real world use"
<Rhonda> sladen: I'm as far as msgcat --no-wrap ja.po | grep ^msgstr | cut -d\" -f2-| sed -e's/"$//'|sed -e 's/./&\n/g'|sort|uniq -c|sort -n
 * Rhonda runs and hides. ;)
<Rhonda> You even get it weighted by use. ;)
<sladen> Rhonda: perfect ---> into the bug report, so it doesn't get lost!
<Adri2000> if any archive admin around has a minute available, there's a filezilla lucid sru waiting in the queue; it's just a rebuild for the wxwidgets2.8 ABI change issue
<sladen> Rhonda: would you object to splitting those up into ja/zh/ko separately.  Each of those individually is larger than what is already there---and I don't want to scare people off
<Rhonda> Hmm, sure, shouldn't be a big issue. Just wanted to avoid people calling it duplicates because there is not big of a technical difference here.
<Rhonda> Can I postpone that for tomorrow though?
<AlanBell> sladen: do you know if the font will be put on font.ubuntu.com in an embeddable @fontface form?
<sladen> AlanBell: yes, will do, I was waiting until the 0.69 was done (which got done at 02h this morning)... if you could file a bug, noting which exact other formats are needed, I can script it
<AlanBell> sladen: will do, thanks
<sladen> AlanBell: eg. which of EOT, SVG, ...  and which packages/PPAs have the convertors in them
<AlanBell> I will check, but I thought it just needs the ttf files but not in a zip archive
<AlanBell> maybe it does need EOT for Internet Explorer and OTF for real browsers
<sladen> AlanBell: if you think it's that simple, you're in for a shock :)
<AlanBell> it is that simple
<AlanBell> supporting EOT is relatively trivial, but not neccessarily a good idea. Regular font linking just needs the .ttf files hosted
<AlanBell> and make sure the web server is sending the right mimetype
<sladen> AlanBell: what's the \ at the end for, and why it's only on some?
<AlanBell> no idea, because I copied, pasted and edited
<sladen> mmhmmm
<sladen> FWIW  http://fonttest.design.canonical.com/stylesheets/fonts.css  is what fonttest is using
<AlanBell> oh wow, it is already there then
<sladen> no, it's not
<sladen> that's fonttest
<AlanBell> ah yes
<sladen> which serves person-specific LP-authenicated fonts (Beta testing)
<AlanBell> src:local('âº')
<AlanBell> so http://fonttest.design.canonical.com/fonts/Ubuntu-R.ttf is a 403 error unless you are logged in, in which case it cheerfully serves it up
<AlanBell> hmm, so a woff file is a ttf in a somewhat optimised compressed format
<directhex> is it too late to fix an ARM FTBFS in universe?
<micahg> directhex: if it's unseeded, no
<directhex> cool
<micahg> directhex: if it's seeded, you need a release team ACK
<directhex> oh, i should include a Closes: stanza
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-06
<Riddell> comment needed on bug 328989
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328989 in eeepc-acpi-scripts (Ubuntu) "eeepc-acpi-scripts package should be removed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328989
<LaserJock> can a MOTU approve a release nomination or does it take a core dev?
<LaserJock> for a Multiverse package/bug
<RAOF> I'm pretty sure a MOTU can do that.
<LaserJock> k, if somebody gets a chance to approve the nominations on bug #638365 I'd appreciate it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 638365 in userful-multiplier (Ubuntu) "Please remove userful-multiplier from Multiverse" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/638365
<ScottK> LaserJock: Approved.  Need to get someone to upload the SRUs now (sorry, no time)
<LaserJock> ScottK: np, we don't have uploads ready. I'm just trying to shepherd upstream along
<ScottK> OK.  Great.
<LaserJock> ScottK: they got confused/worried when the main task was closed
<LaserJock> ScottK: so I wanted to open tasks so they have something to track
<ScottK> Heh.
<genupulas> guys was the discussion going or not
<ajmitch> that was odd
<micahg> is there a guide for how to handle soname bumps in packaging
<RAOF> micahg: There's the library packaging guide.
<RAOF> micahg: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<micahg> RAOF: yep, got that, thanks, luckily upstream handle the soname change, I jsut need to make sure I update the package appropriatelyt
<RAOF> micahg: In case it's not obvious from that guide, basically all you need to do is change the binary package name to libfoo$NEWSO
<micahg> RAOF: right, but apparently the package is a mess, there's an unversioned -dev package with a versioned -dev.install fiile :-/
<micahg> RAOF: should I version the package or unversion the files?
<RAOF> That'sâ¦ interesting.
<RAOF> Generally we don't have versioned -dev packages.
<micahg> RAOF: k, I'll unversion the files then
<lifeless> versioning the dev is useful if you want to support people building against multiple library versions at once
<lifeless> with a provides: unversioned-dev
<lifeless> most libraries don't need that sort of flexability
<micahg> lifeless: nah, it's not a major package and the old version can't be used at the moment anyways
<micahg> RAOF: do you have time to sponsor a universe package?
<micahg> from bzr....
<RAOF> Probably not, sorry.  I need to leave in a couple of minutes.
<micahg> RAOF: k
<RAOF> If you still haven't found a sponsor by the time I get back, I'll give it a look
<micahg> RAOF: k, thansk'
<micahg> hi hyperair, do you have time to sponsor a bzr branch?
<micahg> or anyone who's available for sponsoring a universe package from bzr :)
<micahg> didrocks: do you have time to sponsor a bzr branch
<didrocks> micahg: not right now. I want to finish my paperwork from the morning, but I can do it then (in approx one hour)
<micahg> didrocks: that's fine, as long as it's before noon UTC, can I give you the URL?
<Rhonda> launchpad still can't do unsubscribes from individual bugs that give implicit subscription, right?
<didrocks> micahg: sure
<micahg> didrocks: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~micahg/ubuntu/maverick/libfxscintilla/update-2.11.0/+merge/37706, the only thing I didn't do was the release commit
<micahg> Rhonda: right
<dholbach> good morning
<micahg> didrocks: thanks, I'm going to go to sleep then
<didrocks> micahg: there is a soname bump
<micahg> didrocks: yes
<didrocks> micahg: I'm not sure, you didn't mention it for the FFe to be accepted
<micahg> didrocks: FFe was accepted, bug 650601
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 650601 in libfxscintilla (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Please update libfxscintilla to 2.11.0" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650601
<micahg> didrocks: oh, you're saying I didn't mention the soname bump
<micahg> didrocks: I didn't realize it until tonight
<didrocks> micahg: yeah, I'm looking at the rdepends
<didrocks> micahg: not sure it can be uploaded
<micahg> didrocks: should be none, binaries aren't in the archive since Lucid
<didrocks> grrr, rdepends is currently broken
<didrocks> micahg: I wait to be sure first :)
<didrocks> micahg: can you look at rdepends ?
<micahg> didrocks: I tried, it won't do it without the binary in the archive
<micahg> let me see if I can do it from p.u,.c
<micahg> didrocks: I"ll check in a karmic chroot :)
<didrocks> micahg: hehe, I think this is the only soluton right now :)
<didrocks> did they change the API? is there an ABI breakage?
<micahg> didrocks: no rdepends
<Rhonda> micahg: That's sad because constant flowing in responses to a bug makes me think about removing myself from yet another such implicit subscription.  :/
<didrocks> micahg: what's the point of the library then? :)
<micahg> Rhonda: I think they're working on it, I can find the bug for you alter
<didrocks> micahg: if there is no rdepends :)
<micahg> didrocks: idk, it was in archive, I offered to update
<didrocks> micahg: I'll check with colin, but I'm really unsure about the timeline as there is a ABI change (and I don't know if there is anything more like ABI breakage/soname bump)
<Rhonda> micahg: I added to that bug years ago without any progress at all since.
<Rhonda> micahg: Actually someone even wanted to mark it as duplicate for a completely different issue. And then the "send patches" got thrown around in there too, "now that launchpad is open source".  *sigh*
<didrocks> hum, soname bump even
<micahg> didrocks: well, I bumped the library version, so anyone that uses the library would need a rebuild anyway
<didrocks> micahg: I answer on the bug report, I'll talk with colin later and we'll see what to do
<didrocks> micahg: right, and it's very late for such a transition in the cycle
<micahg> didrocks: ok, I didn't figure that he'd ok it since there were no rdepends and it's not in debian, but he did, so I finished it
<micahg> didrocks: we have no binaries at the moment anyways
<didrocks> micahg: yeah, but I think he was thinking that you already did the work before to see there is no bump
<didrocks> no binaries?
<didrocks> oh right
<micahg> didrocks: nope, only the source is in archive ATM
<didrocks> the last line is karmic
<didrocks> not maverick :)
<didrocks> oh ok, so no worry for this then
<didrocks> I'm looking at the packaging and will sponsor consequently
<didrocks> micahg: sorry for the confusion, thanks a lot, I'll sponsor it today :)
 * directhex uploaded an ARM FTBFS bugfix
<micahg> didrocks: I started on teh package and made sure it built before requesting the FFe, but I didn't check it throughly for pacakging issues until tonight
<micahg> didrocks: I now know to check for soname bumps before requesting FFes :)
<micahg> didrocks: thanks a lot, I can go to sleep then
<didrocks> micahg: yeah, it's an important parameter for packages in the archive, in this case, less :)
<didrocks> micahg: enjoy your evening!
<micahg> didrocks: have a great day!
<didrocks> thanks :)
<hyperair> micahg: have you gotten your sponsor?
<micahg> hyperair: yes, thanks
<hyperair> micahg: ah okay then.
<didrocks> micahg: just a note (when you will be back), no need to add in the changelog "rename libfxscintilla17-dev to libfxscintilla19-dev and then rename libfxscintilla19-dev to libfxscintilla-dev"
<didrocks> just the end count like "rename libfxscintilla17-dev to libfxscintilla-dev" :)
<micahg> didrocks: ah, sorry, yeah, the original package actually I don't think ever worked :-/
<didrocks> micahg: no worry :)
 * micahg is really off now :)
<hyperair> micahg: i don't really have the time to figure out bzr again. could you stick it in revu or something?
<didrocks> micahg: hyperair will do the full review (thanks again!) as there is this soname bump and I'm not sure to get enough time because of that doing a proper job on it :)
 * hyperair just realized that that was libfxscintilla and not libwxscintilla
<dapal> ScottK: since you've acked most of the depends requiring a FFe, would you please also (finally) ack josm?
<dapal> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/josm/+bug/613926 , thank you :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613926 in josm (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Sync josm 0.0.svn3514-2 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Undecided,In progress]
<ScottK> dapal: Done
<dapal> great, thank you :)
<dapal> now, looking for a sponsor :)
<Rhonda> erm â¦
<Rhonda> dapal: "Please resubscribe ubuntu-sponsors once all these packages are available in the archive."
<Rhonda> This doesn't seem to have happened? :)
<ScottK> dapal: I'll approve it as sponsor too.
<dapal> ScottK: great, thanks :)
<dapal> Rhonda: oh, you there? :) -- yes, I forgot that too
<dapal> ScottK: no need to subscribe ubuntu-sponsors then?
<ScottK> Correct.
<dapal> great, thanks!
<Rhonda> dapal: everywhere :P
<dapal> Rhonda: gar. There's no Rhonda-free place on earth then? :(
<Rhonda> You can try #kde, #emacs or other evil sides of the force. :P
<dapal> omg.
<dapal> Rhonda: I'm scared now.
<Rhonda> Then the mission is accomplished.
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, morning mate
<ari-tczew> hello coolbhavi
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: are you ready to start natty development?
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, yes balancing everything at the moment :)
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: do you will merge new upstream releases, right?
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, yes but based on debian changes
<ari-tczew> if someone needs help today before close archive, I have a time a little bit
<nigelb> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: October 06 2010, 12:07:37
<Rhonda> bilalakhtar: I have no clue what you were refering to to ari a few days ago what you hilighted me with.
<bilalakhtar> Rhonda: ah, just leave it
<lfaraone> Would adding a mimetype handler so that clicking on an XO bundle installs it (which should be the normal action) be a new feature? (it'd just be adding a mimetype handler, and it should have been that way in the first place)
<blueyed> I am trying to build the vanilla kernel according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/GitKernelBuild but it fails: http://pastebin.com/96Xh9xgM
<blueyed> The translated error: "dpkg-gencontrol: error: package linux-image-2.6.36-rc6-custom+ not in control info"
<blueyed> Apparently it's missing the 10.00 here, or something similar.
<blueyed> probably this bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=588126
<ubottu> Debian bug 588126 in kernel-package "kernel-package: Fails to build linux-image on 2.6.35-rc4 if CONFIG_LOCALVERSION is set" [Important,Fixed]
<ari-tczew> micahg: ping
<micahg> ari-tczew: pong
<ari-tczew> micahg: any ideas for libjdic-java? :P
<micahg> ari-tczew: heh, sorry about that, got overwhelmed this cycle, I'll get to it after UDS (for real this time :))
<micahg> ari-tczew: we're migrating to 4.0.x in Natty, so one way or another we'll fix it :)
<ari-tczew> micahg: migrating to 4.0.x of what?
<micahg> ari-tczew: Firefox
<micahg> ari-tczew: can you sponsor a bzr merge for me
<blueyed> request-sync uses natty already.. so how can I get a kernel-package sync for maverick (universe)? impossible?
<ari-tczew> micahg: ah, so libjdic-java is related to firefox?
<micahg> ari-tczew: it build depends on xulrunner
<micahg> ari-tczew: can you sponsor a bzr merge for me?
<micahg> s/merge/update/
<ari-tczew> micahg: sure
<micahg> ari-tczew: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~micahg/ubuntu/maverick/libfxscintilla/update-2.11.0
<micahg> oops
 * micahg needs to request merge
 * ari-tczew hates .edge. domain
<Laney> blueyed: you can specify the release
<micahg> oh, nm
<micahg> ari-tczew: https://code.launchpad.net/~micahg/ubuntu/maverick/libfxscintilla/update-2.11.0/+merge/37706
<micahg> ari-tczew: just needs to release commit and tag
<BlackZ> Sarvatt: ping
<micahg> ari-tczew: if you want me to do those, I can
<ari-tczew> micahg: so go ahead :)
<blueyed> Laney: sure.. will use it. thanks.
<ari-tczew> micahg: I see that didrocks could sponsor it.
<Sarvatt> whats up BlackZ?
<didrocks> ari-tczew: micahg: hyperair was on it, right?
<didrocks> or is it another lib? :)
<ari-tczew> didrocks: dunno! :>
<micahg> ari-tczew: I tried, he was too busy and handed off to hyperair who isn't so familiar with UDD
<didrocks> yeah, it's quite busy there :/
<didrocks> sorry micahg
<micahg> didrocks: it's ok, we'll try to get it uploaded and hopefully accepted (it builds fast)
<BlackZ> Sarvatt: can you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~eugenesan/ppa-purge/trunk/+merge/33368 ?
<BlackZ> Sarvatt: if you want, I could do that
<ari-tczew> heh, UDD is not hard to use.
<micahg> ari-tczew: k, commit revision is in, go ahead
<hyperair> micahg: what's UDD?
<BlackZ> Sarvatt: I have some comments about it
<micahg> hyperair: Ubuntu distributed Development (using bzr for uploads/updates/merging)
<ari-tczew> micahg: how do you adding tags to branch?
<hyperair> ari-tczew: specifically, let's just say i don't like bzr.
<hyperair> get me a diff, sure, debian.tar.gz, sure, full dsc set, sure, but bzr branch? nothanksbai
<micahg> ari-tczew: debcommit -r :)
<hyperair> micahg: yeah i figured as much
<ari-tczew> mhm
<micahg> ari-tczew: that way the package importer shouldn't overwrite my changes when you upload
<micahg> we'll see if it works :)
<ari-tczew> micahg: good point
<micahg> hyperair: the only reason I know bzr is thanks to asac and his training on the mozilla team branches
 * micahg still has issues with git
 * ari-tczew hates inhale his neighbours cigarette smoke
<Sarvatt> BlackZ: I added you to the xorg-edgers, would be much appreciated if you could. the only issue I see is the changelog, would want to condense that all into one and just bump the version once
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: "bzr mark-uploaded" (as described in UDD documentation) will tag
<BlackZ> Sarvatt: agreed; I will comment on it ASAP, however, why don't you add a separate team for commit to the ppa-purge's bzr repository?
<BlackZ> s/add/create
<Sarvatt> I will but I'm very busy at the moment and don't want to delay you :)
<BlackZ> thanks Sarvatt :)
 * hyperair grumbles about his miserable crap of a connection
<cdbs> hyperair: really?
<cdbs> hyperair: people have even worse connections! like mine
<hyperair> cdbs: oh yeah? have you seen how many times i've reconnected in the past few minutes?
<micahg> cdbs: nice name :)
<cdbs> micahg: I am bilalakhtar :)
<micahg> cdbs: I know :)
<cdbs> wanted a smaller nick
<hyperair> why not dh7?
<cdbs> one that westeners could pronounce easily
<hyperair> cdbs is old outdated technology =p
<hyperair> fyi, bilal akhtar is pretty easy to pronounce
<cdbs> hyperair: I like cdbs for some *old* reasons
<micahg> hyperair: that's a highly contentious point
<hyperair> micahg: it is in my book, and that's all that matters to me =p
<hyperair> micahg: needless to say, it takes extra persuading to get me to sponsor a cdbs package rahter than a dh7 package.
<cdbs> micahg: When will you apply for MOTU?
<hyperair> mostly because i've forgotten how cdbs works
<hyperair> eh, micahg isn't a motu yet?
<hyperair> oh right, he was asking for sponsors >_>
<hyperair> silly me
<micahg> hmmm, I was going to wait until life slowed down a litlle
<cdbs> micahg: Your syncs and merges so far have been flawless
<cdbs> micahg: And you have been working well with chris-ccoulson as well
<hyperair> no dash needed ;-)
<cdbs> hyperair: to prevent a ping
<hyperair> haha i don't mind being pinged if people are talking about me.
<cdbs> oh
<cdbs> I wanted a discussion about the script grab-merge
<micahg> cdbs: nice to know I have 1 for on my application :)
<cdbs> I would like to make a change in it that it also creates a new file called merge-debuild that actually runs debuild instead of dpkg-buildpackage in merge-buildpackage. ideas?
<cdbs> 'It' above is grab-merge in ubuntu-dev-tools
<cdbs> micahg: hmm, yes
<cdbs> bye people
<lfaraone> ScottK: Can I both approve and sponsor a FFe request for ubuntu-sugar-remix-meta?
<shadeslayer> lfaraone: Scott is out afaik
<lfaraone> shadeslayer: okay. this is just a procedural question, I've not had the ability to approve FFes before.
<shadeslayer> ok ..
<lfaraone> I know you can't both upload something and accept it in the archive.
<fabrice_sp> lfaraone, Scott acked this morning a sync request from a Release team stand point and also ack it from a sponsor standpoint
<micahg> fabrice_sp: yes, but he's an actual member of the release team, not an adjunct :)
<lfaraone> fabrice_sp: cool. but I very much can't ack a FFe for a change I author, right?
<micahg> oh, what fabrice_sp said was ok, it's the lfaraone case that's the issue :)
<fabrice_sp> lfaraone, a peer review is always welcome :-)
<cdbs> So as I mentioned earlier, would it be fine to get grab-merge in ubuntu-dev-tools to create another file called merge-debuild that workd like merge-buildpackage except for the fact that it runs debuild?
<cdbs> tumbleweed: ^^
<micahg> cdbs: you generally want to look at the merge before running debuild
<cdbs> micahg: But you ultimately have to run it, right?
<tumbleweed> cdbs: I've never used merge-buildpackage, but sounds reasonable
<cdbs> micahg: And only after that can you run debdiff to see the changes yourself, right?
<cdbs> cdbs: oh, and if you don't know, I am bilalakhtar
<micahg> cdbs: right, but there are usually conflicts
<cdbs> micahg: Doesn't grab-merge create merge-buildpackage as well?
<cdbs> I could get it to create another file i.e. merge-debuild
<micahg> idr
<cdbs> micahg: it does
<ari-tczew> who is familiar with bzr merging>?
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: well, what is the problem? :)
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: I did: bzr merge-package lp:foo
<ari-tczew> then bzr commit
<ari-tczew> now, push ?
<micahg> ari-tczew: you should do debcommit instead of bzr commit so that bugs are closed
<micahg> or linked, more appropriately
<ari-tczew> fu**..
<micahg> ari-tczew: not a problem, bzr uncommit, debcommit
<ari-tczew> try again
<fabrice_sp> Should I ping someone to get Bug 613926 synced? (before freeze)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613926 in josm (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Sync josm 0.0.svn3514-2 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613926
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: ack-sync/syncpackage is not good?
<micahg> fabrice_sp: freeze is passed (noon UTC today)
<fabrice_sp> I prefer to wait for an archive admin that late in the cycle
<ari-tczew> micahg: for main, not for universe
<fabrice_sp> hmm, aa has een subscribe before noon
<micahg> ari-tczew: no, freeze for universe was today at noon
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, micahg  is right
<ari-tczew> micahg: wait wait wait, so if archive is closed, why we are going to upload? :D
<fabrice_sp> that's why I'm asking
<micahg> ari-tczew: because I have an exception :)
<fabrice_sp> so do I :-P
<micahg> ari-tczew: I asked and I was told if it's not uploaded, there's *no* chance of it getting in, but if it's uploaded, there is a chance
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: cjwatson maybe
<fabrice_sp> well, let me chekc the timestamp
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: where do you want to push the branch? I don't think pushing it to lp:ubuntu/foo actuall does anything at the moment.
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: lp:ubuntu/libfxscintilla
<micahg> kklimonda: I used bzr push :parent (use bzr info to make sure :parent is what you want)
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: right, those branches are populated from the uploaded packages afaik. Unless something has changed recently, james_w ?
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: I'd just do a simple bzr bd -S to build source package and upload it using dput
<micahg> kklimonda: only if it's not tagged
<ari-tczew> micahg: only "debcommit" is enough
<ari-tczew> ?
<ari-tczew> micahg want to be sponsored through bzr
<kklimonda> micahg: so if you create a tag (i.e. something like 1.2.3-0ubuntu1) then.. what is going to happen? :)
<micahg> ari-tczew: debcommit is the same as bzr commit except it uses the debian changelog as the commit message and automatically does the --fixes lp:foo
<micahg> kklimonda: the importer shouldn't overwrite according to james_w
<micahg> ari-tczew: it was a new upstream release (no sane way to do a debdiff)
<kklimonda> micahg: but does it actually do anything useful with the branch?
<micahg> kklimonda: you can keep the individual commits vs one big import commit
<ari-tczew> micahg: I created diff between /debian/ dirs
<micahg> ari-tczew: right, but then you have to fetch the orig.tar.gz and what not
<ari-tczew> micahg: ... let's back to uploading :P
<kklimonda> micahg: ok, make sense
<ari-tczew> micahg: ok, debcommit is done. what next? bzr push?
<micahg> ari-tczew: run bzr tags to make sure my release tag is there
<ari-tczew> micahg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/507481/
<micahg> ari-tczew: looks good
<ari-tczew> micahg: bzr push lp:ubuntu/libfxscintilla ?
<micahg> so check bzr info to make sure the parent branch is the ubuntu maverick branch, then you can run bzr push :parent
<micahg> ari-tczew: as kklimonda I don't think that works yet
<micahg> *said
<ari-tczew> micahg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/507482/
<micahg> oh, hmm, so maybe it will work :)
<ari-tczew> micahg: so, bzr push lp:ubuntu/libfxscintilla ?
<micahg> ari-tczew: yeah, see if it works
<kklimonda> bah, I got all my paperwork ready and now begins the joy of waiting for a meeting with the US consul and thinking of a way to convince him I'm not going to stay in US forever and work as a cleaner :/
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: are you in US now?
<kklimonda> no
<ari-tczew> micahg: Launchpad is processing new changes to this branch which will be available in a few minutes. Reload to see the changes.
<micahg> ari-tczew: we'll wait I guess
<ari-tczew> micahg: I hope that your branch will be automatically set up as merged.
<ari-tczew> micahg: it still doesn't uploaded :/ dut is waiting
<ari-tczew> s/dut/dput
<micahg> ari-tczew: hmmm
<micahg> ari-tczew: and the builders are empty :(
<ari-tczew> maybe james_w could help?
<james_w> what with?
<micahg> james_w: branch scan taking an hour for lp:ubuntu/libfxscintilla
<ari-tczew> james_w: we are thinking that https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/libfxscintilla/maverick is loading too long
<ari-tczew> micahg: around yet?
<micahg> ari-tczew: I'm here
<micahg> ari-tczew: update still not done :-/
<ari-tczew> micahg: james_w is explaining it on #launchpad.
<ari-tczew> micahg: I'm going to bed soon, what's next?
<ari-tczew> micahg: what's the deadline about uploading to universe?
<micahg> ari-tczew: already passed 9 hrs agfo
<micahg> ari-tczew: so, we're on borrowed time
<kklimonda> have you checked if the branch has been properly pushed?
<kklimonda> maybe it's just a LP hickup and you can already upload package
<ari-tczew> on #launchpad devs suggest bug about tags scanning
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: ask james if you can upload package anyway, it's not the best moment to waste time because of some bug :/
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: do you mean dput?
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: well, you have to use dput anyway, right?
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: right
<kklimonda> builders don't yet build packages from branches anyway.
<kklimonda> so I'd just go and publish the package and then we can worry about branch being broken
<ari-tczew> micahg: ^^
<kklimonda> it's better then getting a red light from the admins after all this work
<micahg> kklimonda: the idea was to not lose the bzr revisions I did
<kklimonda> micahg: I know, but sometimes you have to compromise
<micahg> we're getting some action in #lp now
 * kklimonda is a huge proponent of the udd but still, the most important thing is package itself :)
 * ari-tczew is waiting like a truck to arrive out.
<micahg> ari-tczew: upload please :)
<ari-tczew> micahg: did you saw it? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/libfxscintilla/maverick/revision/4
<micahg> ari-tczew: yes, but the tag isn't shown on the top level, I hope it's enough
<micahg> ari-tczew: ugh, I don't think it's enough
<ari-tczew> micahg: hmmm?
<micahg> maybe run bzr mark-uploaded and then push again?
<micahg> and then upload?
<ari-tczew> micahg: dunno, I wouldn't take bzr till bug is not fixed.
<micahg> ari-tczew: I need to file a bug against the package importer, will have ot do later
<ari-tczew> micahg: so, could I upload your package?
<micahg> ari-tczew: go agead
<micahg> *ahead
<micahg> my branch is still there, we can clean up later
<ari-tczew> micahg: "Successfully uploaded packages."
<micahg> ari-tczew: thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-07
 * freeflying 
<doctormo> I need some help with a package that works ok in lucid, but fails to build for maverick.
<doctormo> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/57210297/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.xserver-xorg-input-wizardpen_0.7.3-2maverick1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<doctormo> The error is odd and unfamiliar to me. Permission denied executing ./configure
<poolie> doctormo: it's not +x permission
<poolie> a few reasons that could have broken:
<poolie> 1-
<poolie>  the permissions are actually different in this package
<poolie> 2- previously it was run with 'sh ./configure' and now it's not
<poolie> though that seems a bit unlikely
<poolie> 3- previously something was running autoconf, which recreated/chomdded it
<poolie> seems unlikely too
<poolie> hth
<doctormo> hth?
<poolie> "hope that helps"
<poolie> it's probably #1
<doctormo> poolie: Checking the source dir, the configure file is +x, I wonder if it's in the deb source though like that.
<doctormo> Ah perhaps it's because the make source produces an output which is different... hmm, interesting weirdness.
<doctormo> This is why I dislike semi-abandoned codebases, no upstream to ask for help.
<ScottK> micahg: Looks like http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=320081 ?
<ubottu> bugs.gentoo.org bug 320081 in Server "www-misc/zoneminder-1.24.2 fails to build with ffmpeg-0.6" [Normal,New]
<poolie> hello scottk
<ScottK> Hello poolie
<ScottK> micahg: http://www.zoneminder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=64281 looks interesting too.
<poolie> ScottK: could you sponsor, or give us some further feedback on, the SRU in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/636930
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 636930 in Launchpad Bazaar Integration "Upgrading a repository fails with 'Inter1and2Helper' object has no attribute 'source_repo'" [High,Triaged]
<poolie> i think your concerns from last time are now addressed
<micahg> ScottK: k, I ended up pushing to PPA since they're empty
<micahg> it builds fast
<ScottK> poolie: We're definitely into SRU territory now.
<poolie> that's fine
<ScottK> It's also late here, so I don't have time to sponsor it tonight.
<ScottK> Since it's an SRU, it can't get accepted until Sunday, so no rush ....
<poolie> right, it's not urgent
<poolie> i'd just like to know if we have to do anything else to make it move
<micahg> ScottK: our diff is to fix a problem with ffmpeg
<ScottK> micahg: Are you sure we still need it?
<micahg> ScottK: that was what I was going to try next :)
<ScottK> OK.  I'm off to sleep.  Good night.
<micahg> ScottK: night, thanks
<micahg> hyperair: hi, can you sponsor a debdiff?
<hyperair> micahg: fxscintilla?
<hyperair> you still haven't found another sponsor?
<hyperair> i thought someone else was looking into it?
<micahg> hyperair: heh, no that's already built :), bug 656101
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 656101 in zoneminder (Ubuntu) "Please merge zoneminder 1.2.4-7 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656101
<hyperair> zoneminder eh
<nigelb> g30
<fabrice_sp> Now that even universe is hard frozen, are sync request still processes (it's for bug 613926, that has been approved before freeze), or should I upload with ack-sync?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613926 in josm (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Sync josm 0.0.svn3514-2 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613926
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, ^ (as you acked it)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: he's offline, you can try slangasek
<fabrice_sp> thanks micahg ! I saw it in the log not so long ago
<fabrice_sp> will wait to see if slangasek reply to your ping
<fabrice_sp> by the way, you have a second vote for Motuship ;-)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: heh, thanks
<micahg> upload rights come in handy towards the end of the cycle
<hyperair> micahg: you added a trailing empty line at the bottom of debian/changelog.
<hyperair> micahg: i'll just remove it, but please don't add it in the future.
<hyperair> micahg: one \n is enough =)
<micahg> hyperair: ugh, I don't have that in my debdiff
<hyperair> micahg: it's in your debdiff.
<hyperair> @@ -222,3 +236,4 @@
<hyperair>      various scripts; replaced with GPL.
<hyperair>  
<hyperair>   -- Peter Howard <pjh@northern-ridge.com.au>  Wed,  7 Feb 2007 14:09:01 +1100
<hyperair> +
<hyperair> see that trailing +
<micahg> oh, I think that came with it
<micahg> I just didn't notice
 * micahg checks
<micahg> yes, it was in the last upload :)
<hyperair> nah, it didn't
<hyperair> it wasn't.
<hyperair> i debdiffed against the last upload.
<hyperair> or rather, i import-dsc'd everything into git for proper examination
<micahg> hmm, you're right, it was grab-merge then :)
<micahg> I've never seen that before, I'll watch for it now
<hyperair> it could be a quirk of your text editor
<hyperair> some have a habit of adding one extra \n
<micahg> hyperair: from grab-merge patch:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/507743/
 * hyperair used apt-get source and dget
<hyperair> hmm maybe someone should look into grab-merge.
<hyperair> i mean not grab-merge, but merge.ubuntu.com's code itself
<hyperair> micahg: anyway apart from that it looks good, so i'll just testbuild and upload.
<micahg> hyperair: k, thanks, BTW, pbuilder fails
<hyperair> i use sbuild.
<hyperair> what happens in pbuilder?
<micahg> hyperair: underfined reference or something
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> well i'll see if it happens
<hyperair> micahg: looks like it built. i'll upload it then )
<hyperair> =)
<micahg> hyperair: cool, thanks
<hyperair> uploaded
<fabrice_sp> I was thinking yesterday about the MOTU acronym meaning, and the fact that we want to get rid of the split between main and universe, and I was wondering: shouldn't we change Master of the Universe to Master of the Unseeded. I know that we loose something in the change, but that may be more accurate. What do you think?
<micahg> fabrice_sp: when it happens, it seems appropriate
<fabrice_sp> micahg, what do you mean? It's early for my english parser :-)
<micahg> the term is appropriate once the archive reorganization happens
<fabrice_sp> well, atually, the reorganization is happening now
<fabrice_sp> (otherwise you won't be able to upload to -mozilla set ;-) )
<micahg> fabrice_sp: well, that's part of it, I'm sure it'll be discussed at UDS
<fabrice_sp> is there a planned session for that?
<micahg> fabrice_sp: I don't see one yet
<fabrice_sp> oh. I'll wait a bit then (or send an email later). I have to  go now. Bye!
<micahg> fabrice_sp: have a good day
<dholbach> Good Morning!
<coolbhavi> good morning dholbach !
<dholbach> hey coolbhavi
<coolbhavi> hey dholbach how are you doing?
<dholbach> good good - how are you?
<coolbhavi> m doing fine too
<Laney> While we still have components and component-based uploading, MOTU's current expansion is correct
<Laney> Archive Upload Rights for motu: archive 'primary', component 'universe' in maverick
<Laney> that
<Rhonda> Oh, right, requestsync â¦
<ari-tczew> micahg: package uploaded, but branch is still hanged,
<micahg> ari-tczew: k, I'm not going to worry about it
<ari-tczew> I'm looking for someone who is familiar with licenses...
<ScottK> !ask | ari-tczew
<ubottu> ari-tczew: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<ScottK> ;-)
<ari-tczew> ok, I have granted ACKs for new package (revu/clementine), but debian/copyright have to be checked by someone familiar with licenses.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: maybe you? ^^
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Not until after release.  Too much other stuff to do.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I understand. @start natty?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Not before that.  No promises.
<Laney> why do you think it's suspect?
<ari-tczew> Laney: bdrung has suggested it with giving a comment on revu.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, about bug 613926: should I upload the sync with syncpackage, or it will be synced by an archive admin?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613926 in josm (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Sync josm 0.0.svn3514-2 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613926
<fabrice_sp> you acked it yesterday
<Laney> ari-tczew: I think he just means that someone needs to check that d/copyright is correct
<Laney> the licenses used are fine
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Go ahead and upload it with syncpackage.
<fabrice_sp> ok
<ari-tczew> Laney: did you look at clementine's d/copyright?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> you need to check it's complete and correct
<ari-tczew> Laney: this file is handled by upstream author. what do you think, can we trust him?
<Laney> no
<Laney> the archive admin will check it, you need to too or risk a reject
<ari-tczew> Laney: so I asked who is familiar with d/copyright
<ari-tczew> because I'm not good person to do it.
<Laney> why not?
<ari-tczew> I'm not familiar with licenses.
<ari-tczew> Laney: I thought that as motu I can upload package by myself (new package).
<Laney> Well first of all you should have a working knowledge of them. But second of all you don't really need to be: you just have to check that what is in copyright matches the license statements in the package, and that nothing has been missed out.
<Laney> ari-tczew: all NEW source packages get a copyright review
<kklimonda> you can if you are able to check d/changelog - that's the same for everyone
<kklimonda> d/copyright..
<ari-tczew> Laney: ok, so when natty will be started, I'll subscribe ubuntu-archive
<Laney> it needs two acks
<ari-tczew> Laney: bdrung and me
<Laney> neither of you have acked it on revu
<Laney> and you should review the copyright file...
<Laney> and the archive doesn't need to be subscribed to anything, they review from the NEW queue
<ari-tczew> Laney: I'm not familiar with licenses. I'm looking for someone who is familiar with d/copyright.
<Laney> This is a good time to learn. Archive administrators aren't the people to do this for you.
<ari-tczew> Laney: oh, I just forgot. I'm only laborer.
<Laney> It's fairly routine work, just takes a lot of time: checking that what is written there matches up with the source
<BlackZ> ScottK: bug #655929: can I proceed with the upload of that package with the changes we mentioned?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 655929 in ppa-purge (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Please update ppa-purge to the 0.2.8 version" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655929
<ScottK> BlackZ: Yes.
<BlackZ> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> Time for me to run off again....
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-08
<micahg> does "$@" in a shell script quote every argument, or each argument individually?
<cody-somerville> micahg, it isn't difficult to test but I think it puts it all in one quote
<micahg> cody-somerville: that's what I thought, I guess I should write a test
<micahg> requesting upload for Debian RC bug (LP bug 656659)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 656659 in ninvaders (Ubuntu) "Sync ninvaders 0.1.1-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656659
<micahg> fabrice_sp: good morning, could you look at bug 656659 please
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 656659 in ninvaders (Ubuntu) "Sync ninvaders 0.1.1-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656659
<fabrice_sp> good morning micahg!
<fabrice_sp> sure
<fabrice_sp> micahg, uploaded. Thanks ! Anything else?
<micahg> fabrice_sp: not at the moment, thanks!
<ScottK> micahg: Two days before release is not time for a packaging overhaul.
<ScottK> micahg: Could I have a ninvaders with just the minimal fixes.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, I know: I checked the changes and this are 3 lines
<ScottK> OK.  I didn't see the diff yet, just read the changelog
<fabrice_sp> I got scared also :-)
<micahg> ScottK: oh, that's why I gave up on it the other night
<micahg> ScottK: no, there are packaging changes, go ahead and reject, do you think it's worth making the simple diff?
<fabrice_sp> packaging changes? which ones?
<ScottK> micahg: Please just the bug fix and the debian/copyright update.
<micahg> fabrice_sp: http://paste.ubuntu.com/508509/
<fabrice_sp> ok: I thought it would be safe, as this are the equivalent in dh7 of old ones, and do not affect the package, but ok
<micahg> is saying that I'm pulling select changes from the Debian version attribution enough?
<micahg> I'll file a new bug so that the sync bug is open for natty
<fabrice_sp> I would mention what the change do, and that it comes from debian
<fabrice_sp> for each
<micahg> fabrice_sp: I copied the changelog entries with a note on top
<fabrice_sp> could you pastebin the proposal?
<micahg> fabrice_sp: sure
<micahg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/508512/
<fabrice_sp> it's ok
<\sh> moins
<micahg> fabrice_sp: should I file a bug and attach it?
<fabrice_sp> micahg, yes please
<fabrice_sp> and close the bug in the changelog :-) (to know where it comes from)
<micahg> yep :)
<fabrice_sp> moins \sh
<micahg> fabrice_sp: do you want to mark bug 656659 confirmed in the mean time
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 656659 in ninvaders (Ubuntu) "Sync ninvaders 0.1.1-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656659
<fabrice_sp> micahg, I was trying to see how we don't loose this sync request
<micahg> fabrice_sp: mark confirmed and it'll go during the first sync of natty?
<fabrice_sp> subscribe archive admin in the meantime, also?
<fabrice_sp> not sure...
<fabrice_sp> I'll confirm it anyway
<micahg> fabrice_sp: hmm...good point
<fabrice_sp> it will appear in MOM, so you won't forget ;-)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: bug 656678, should I attach a pbuilder log?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 656678 in ninvaders (Ubuntu) "Fix RC bug in ninvaders for Maverick" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656678
<fabrice_sp> micahg, no: I'll rebuild it anyway ;-)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: k, I think you're all set, thanks for the help
<fabrice_sp> thank you for your contribution ;-)
<micahg> np
<micahg> ScottK: is bug 646877 worth taking now or ask SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 646877 in gjs (Ubuntu) "gjs-console doesn't quote arguments, breaking gnome-shell-clock-preferences" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/646877
<micahg> *as
<ScottK> micahg: Go for it.
<micahg> ScottK: k, thanks
 * ScottK is off to bed.  Will look at it tomorrow.
<ScottK> Also leaving ninvaders in the queue for now so we have something to accept if we need to stimulate a publisher run.
<micahg> ScottK: k, I'm test buillding gjs, then I'll upload
<ScottK> Good night.
<micahg> ScottK: you too, good night, and thanks
<dholbach> good morning!
<kklimonda> good morning
<kklimonda> :)
<ScottK> BlackZ: You added aptitude to build-depends and not depends on ppa-purge.  Would you please fix and upload again?
<BlackZ> ScottK: will do, thanks
<ScottK> Great.
<BlackZ> ScottK: done
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
<ScottK> BlackZ: Looks good.  I'm going to leave it in queue for a while in case we need an upload to stimulate a publisher run in LP.
<BlackZ> ScottK: ok
<Hobbsee> was anyone planning to upgrade wine, or cherrypick the affected patch for http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24193 ?
<ubottu> bugs.winehq.org bug 24193 in wineserver "ptrace protection in Ubuntu 10.10 breaks debuggers (affects winedbg, wow, ...)" [Normal,Closed: fixed]
<Hobbsee> apart from that, yay, no breakage
<Rhonda> Oh, Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> hi there Rhonda
<ari-tczew> Hobbsee the legend
<Hobbsee> i'm a legend now?
<ScottK> YokoZar: ^^^
<ari-tczew> Hobbsee: hehe maybe :P I just wanted say, that I saw some discussions about you, but I see you active on IRC first time.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I have a vague recollection that YokoZar looked into it and found side effects from the patch that were worse than the problem it solved, but I don't remember for sure.
<Hobbsee> ari-tczew: haven't been here for a while, due to a different client
<RainCT> Hey Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: right.  well, the problem it solves is making programs not crash, and actually run, so i'm hoping you're wrong there ;)
<Hobbsee> heya RainCT
<ScottK> Hobbsee: We'll find out in a bit.  It's still early in the day in California.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: true that.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: maybe it makes other programs break.  not seeing any bug reports in the wine tracker about it, though
<Hobbsee> ScottK: obviously having it set globally is useful, and i can see why one wouldn't want to revert it there, but i'm not expecting the change in wine to make things suddenly go boom
<YokoZar> Hobbsee: The patch doesn't build with wine 1.2
<YokoZar> Hobbsee: but it'll be in wine 1.2.1
<YokoZar> *doesn't apply, rather
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Maverick FINAL Freeze in effect - Fix bugs! (less than 16 hours left) | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | latest rebuild failures: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<Azendale> Is there a way to get pbuilder to build a package with debugging information?
<dapal> put "nostrip" in the DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS environment variable?
<Azendale> dapal: In the terminal I'm running pbuilder from, or inside pbuilder somehow?
<dapal> depends whether pbuilder retains the environment or not :)
<dapal> (I don't know that, should google for it)
<dapal> Azendale: you could try to set it in ~/.pbuilderrc , should work
<Azendale> dapal:Ok, thanks, I'll try that
<Azendale> dapal: It didn't seem to work
<dapal> Azendale: ouch, then maybe things in pbuilderrc only work for "pbuilder --login"
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-09
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Maverick FINAL Freeze in effect - Fix bugs! (less than 12 hours left) | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | latest rebuild failures: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<Hobbsee> YokoZar: ah, right.  excellent
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Maverick archive is locked.  Start thinking SRU | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | latest rebuild failures: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<randy_> hello.I package fffmpeg but it only package it /usr/share not /usr/bin or /usr/lib shall I paste i rules?
<ScottK> randy_: Did you start from our existing package or do it from scratch?
<ScottK> If the latter, I suggest trying the former.
<randy_> ScottK, No.I only read debian's package book
<randy_> ScottL, For some season ,I sholud package my package because I compile myself
<randy_> ScottK, where can get other's debian rulers?
<ScottK> apt-get source [packagename] should do it.
<randy_> ScottK, I know ,thank you.Do you know one speak chinese?
<ScottK> No.  Sorry.
<daker> hi folks
<daker> i want to create a deb package
<daker> i was reading the packaging guide but i feel lost
<daker> i looking to create a package for shoutcast server
<daker> i know there one for icecast-server
<fabrice_sp> Hi. I think that cairo-dock-plugins and cairo-dock-plug-ins are the same source (one comes from Debian ans the other one comes from Debian). Does it makes sense to remove the outdate Debian one? or it is too late for package removal?
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: The one from Debian never built, so there aren't any extra binaries (I checked this)
<ScottK> In Natty, someone should merge the two packages and have the Ubuntu one removed.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, I saw that after trying to solve the FTBFS :-/
<fabrice_sp> ok, so nothing to do for Maverick then. Thanks !
<ScottK> I don't think so.
<fabrice_sp> there is a lot less FTBFS in Maverick than in Lucid  for i386 and amd64 (38 and 28 for Lucid, 20 and 18 for Maverick), so seems good!
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Did you see my post on p.u.c about this?
<fabrice_sp> 65 packages are not installable for amd64. I have to check how many it was for lucid
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, no. I'll look now
<fabrice_sp> agree!
<fabrice_sp> That's impressive
<fabrice_sp> even powerpc is a lot better ! What would be the explanation? More active developpers? More quality in Debian?
<ScottK> More attention from core develpers to ports in part.
<ScottK> Debian freezing probably helped.
<ScottK> More attention overall to FTBFS.
<ScottK> Not a lot of fundamental changes to cause new breakage.
<ScottK> If we'd added Python 2.7 to the supported versions, that would have hurt (for example)
<fabrice_sp> right: I still rememeber the python 2.6 transition...
<ScottK> Yep.
<fabrice_sp> let's hope we will do a better and more collaborative work with Debian this time
<ScottK> Over the last couple of years, cooredination has really improved a lot too.
<fabrice_sp> since hardy, the change is really impressive!
<ScottK> When then froze the archive for Feisty's release, there were still packages in the build queue for Universe so some things ended up built on one arch and not another.
<ScottK> Gutsy was the first release where we had any kind of Universe release coordination beyond FF exception processing.
<fabrice_sp> and it's only 3 years ago...
<fabrice_sp> I don't know if we will ever had a no FTBFS release
<fabrice_sp> s/had/have/
<ScottK> I think having no depwaits is unprecedented.
 * ScottK needs to go.
<fabrice_sp> bye
<fabrice_sp> hmmm, I think they were not correctly detected (see libjavascript-perl => E: Unable to locate package libmozjs-dev)
<ScottK> Did that then fail or depwait?
<fabrice_sp> fail
<Rhonda> ScottK: I think I really should apply for PPA for logcheck. :)
<ScottK> Rhonda: Sorry about that one.  It just got missed.
<Rhonda> It's a bit disappointing that this hasn't got through. :/
<fabrice_sp> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/56360933/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.libjavascript-perl_1.16-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ScottK> Undertandable.
<Rhonda> Maybe I should pester a bit more next time then, but that's not my style.
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: So that counts against FTBFS then.
<Rhonda> Ah, gitolite also seems to had been to late?
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, yep: that would explain why there is no depwait
<ScottK> Rhonda: People who contribute (and you qualify) are entitled to pester.  Please do.
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Why things fail and why they depwait is a bit mysterious.
<ScottK> I think only wgrant and one or two other people understand it.
<Rhonda> ScottK: Alright. bug #656238 hasn't marked invalid yet, is there still hope? (I know that it's little)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 656238 in gitolite (Ubuntu) "Sync gitolite 1.5.4-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656238
<ScottK> Rhonda: No.  It's too late.
<ScottK> Rhonda: We can backport it after it syncs to Natty.
<Rhonda> I think the change might qualify for SRU.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Work on those can start now.
<Rhonda> Will check the procedures next week.
<wgrant> ScottK, Rhonda: apt's output changed, so launchpad-buildd no longer detects all depwait cases.
<ScottK> wgrant: It would be nice if it would grow the build-dep uninstallable state that Debian has now.
<Laney> I filed a bug about that
<wgrant> Indeed.
<wgrant> But that is a little more difficult for LP.
<Laney> Actually, presenting the installability of packages might be interesting in other cases too
<ScottK> Laney: Yet another QA page of stuff to work on.
<Laney> yes
<church1> suuuuup
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-10
<micahg> do FTBFS qualify for SRU by themselves, or do you need another bug to upload it with?
<ScottK> micahg: That's generally sufficient.
<micahg> ScottK: does that include something that if rebuilt at the moment, it won't build, but not on the FTBFS list?
<micahg> master: identity crisis?
<master> micahg: always
<master> :P
<ScottK> micahg: If the package is not out of date (e.g. the binary in the archive is built from the current source), then I don't think it's SRU worthy. it would be documenting in a bug how to get it to build if a package update were needed for other reasons.
<micahg> ScottK: well, the issue is gnome-chemistry-utils, an update to libgdk-pixbuf makes it so the current source cannot build anymore so if an update was needed, that would need to be fixed
<ScottK> Right, but since an update isn't otherwise need it, I think it's sufficient to document what needs changing.
<ScottK> (for maverick)
<ScottK> Fix it in Natty after it opens, of course
<micahg> ScottK: k, will keep in mind, thanks
<ScottK> micahg: Also I'm not on ubuntu-sru, so that's just my opinion.
<micahg> is it possible to do syncs from Debian to -proposed (Just a new Debian revision, not upstream)?
<AnAnt> do I need SRU even for a theme update ?
<micahg> AnAnt: what do you mean?
<AnAnt> micahg: I wanted to update plymouth-theme-sabily package, does that require an SRU ?
<micahg> AnAnt: at this point, yes
<micahg> AnAnt: that or a backport
<AnAnt> ScottK: Hello
<micahg> hyperair: would you be willing to comment on my MOTU app?
<hyperair> i could try later, but not now. i'm preparing for a barcamp talk
<micahg> hyperair: k, no rush, I'm not applying for 2 weeks
<chalet16> Will there php 5.3.3 backport for lucid LTS?
<micahg> chalet16: not in the archive
<chalet16> mean that there is no plan for offical backport?
<micahg> ttx: there's no possibility of officially backporting PHP, right?
<ttx> micahg: I'd say no... but you can ask the question to zul for a definite answer
<micahg> I thought I asked once, but I can't seem to find a record of it
<micahg> chalet16: normally security updates and high priority fixes are provided, but not new versions for PHP, looking at the history of the last 5 releases
<chalet16> for backports too?
<micahg> chalet16: well, it hasn't been backported in the past, you could ask the server team what it would take to have it backported, #ubuntu-server or ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com
<chalet16> ok
<chalet16> thanks
<micahg> chalet16: mailing list might be better since it's the weekend
<chalet16> ok
<Rhonda> Are there troubles with the launchpad debbugs connection? It doesn't seem to update the bug status at all since a pretty long time now, keeping Debian bugs still listed as New :/
<ajmitch> Rhonda: I think it used the public bts mirror which was on merkel
<wgrant> That's part of it.
<wgrant> And it's the main problem now.
<wgrant> But it's not the original issue.
<Rhonda> ajmitch: Hmm, then I think that might have changed, there were a fair amount of parts going on with merkel.
<wgrant> Right, it's gone.
<wgrant> Without a replacement :(
<Rhonda> Did anyone ask don about it? Or was it just accepted that it's gone?
<wgrant> The email about it said it probably wasn't going to be replaced.
<ajmitch> that could have been because there wasn't any public outcry about it
 * ajmitch only asked in #debian-qa, didn't ask on a mailing list
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Maverick is released.  Lots of SRUs to be done.  | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | latest rebuild failures: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<ajmitch> good to see another release
<CapeTownParty> geek farming
<persia> Hrm?
<bdrung> didrocks: so you want us to carry the eclipse patch in debian until a better solution is found?
<didrocks> bdrung: if you are willing to, I think that's the best option
<didrocks> bdrung: sorry, I wasn't clear enough?
<bdrung> didrocks: it wasn't very clear. i'll take care of it. just let us know once it should be changed.
<didrocks> bdrung: sure, I'll (hoping that we can export the menu through dbus for those apps in natty)
<Rhonda> Oh. Ah. I think it's time for another packages.ubuntu begging-for-applying-changes round.
 * Rhonda . o O ( No, haven't commited yet )
<Rhonda> Has natty got created yet?
<persia> Nope.  Be a few days, at least.
<persia> There's usually a mail to u-d-a when the new archive is really open (post-toolchain-fussiness)
<Rhonda> Then I guess I don't have to rush the commit. Is any release EOLed now?
<micahg> Rhonda: jaunty won't be EOL for another 13 days
<Rhonda> But dapper is gone?
<persia> Nope.  That lasts until sometime in June 2011
<micahg> Rhonda: not on server for another 8 months
<Rhonda> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/#Releases doesn't mention it anymore?
<persia> (although it's hoped most of the remaining dapper users will have been able to update to lucid in the next 3-4 months)
 * persia edits
<Rhonda> micahg: Hmm, I guess I'll remove jaunty right ahead from the packages code, I have very little hope that the changes will get applied within the next 2 weeks. Or 2 months, FWIW.
<Rhonda> <CIA-5> debian-www: rhonda ubuntu-master * r8838986 packages/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Add maverick, remove jaunty
<Rhonda> http://git.debian.org/?p=webwml/packages.git;a=commitdiff;h=8838 - yet again the changes to config.sh.in needs to get applied to the config.sh file on the server after the git pull.
<nhandler> Does anyone haves any suggestions for packaging training sessions that they would like to see or does anyone want to volunteer to give one?
<persia> nhandler, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Requests is full of ideas
<persia> Some of them are pointlessly obsolete at this point.
<nhandler> persia: Yeah, and many of them have been done as well (we had copied them to Packaging/Training at some point)
<persia> Might be worth decommissioning that page then :)
<Rhonda> I still should do my git talk me thinks at some point.
<persia> With a new cycle starting, it might be worth having one about UEHS: new upstream, bug fixes, bug forwarding, etc.
<nhandler> persia: True. We had a few on bug forwarding in conjunction with Project Cleansweep. And I'll look through the MOTU/School pages to see if there is anything valuable that hasn't been merged into other pages yet and get rid of the page if not
<persia> nhandler, Please keep w.u.c/MOTU/School as a page, but maybe rewrite to talk about history, and move all the real content over to Packaging/Training.
<persia> All the subpages can probably go at this point: Packaging/Training has long taken over, and we'd do better to not be confusing.
 * nhandler nods
<ari-tczew> does anyone have an information how many merges were available when lucid/maverick started?
<persia> I think MoM has some historical statistics, used for the charting.
<persia> They have minor inaccuracies for complex reasons, but it ought be correct to within less than a percentage point.
<persia> Note that Natty will open with fewer pending Debian changes than usual: one of the best ways we can ensure Natty has new and updated software is to help Debian release Squeeze.
<ari-tczew> persia: look @ https://merges.ubuntu.com/main-trend.png
<ari-tczew> it looks like history, but the number is strange - 4000?
<persia> Right.  Those would be the historical statistics from MoM
<persia> Might be a count of packages in main.  Might be a count of all packages that were ever in main.  Check the code.
<ari-tczew> persia: good point, red color is interesing for me.
<ari-tczew> but in this case is not good readable
<persia> No, it isn't.
<persia> You might look at the MoM code to see how they are generated: it may be that you can get something closer to what you seek from that.
<ari-tczew> persia: but from universe trend we can compare 2 points - red line with lucid release and with maverick release
<ari-tczew> the conclusion is following: we've reduced a lot of merges during maverick cycle
<persia> Anyway, the current MoM information is very likely to be of limited use, as either squeeze will release before DIF, meaning everything needs to be remerged, or it won't meaning we'll have a huge swath of DIFes to process, which probably requires coordination or something.
<persia> Sure, but that doesn't reflect on us: it's also that Debian has been frozen for most of the Maverick cycle, so there's less to be merged.
<ari-tczew> also, the number of to-merge packages are smaller in universe than to-merge in main!
<ari-tczew> it's nice achievement
<persia> This is not uncommon.  Stuff in main tends to get tweaked more, and historically there has been weaker coordination with Debian.
<persia> If you're willing to track history further, you might notice that for the 5.04 cycle, there were *zero* pending merges in universe.
<ari-tczew> persia: I trust, but number of packages is growing up always
<ari-tczew> :)
<persia> No, I think we got a reduction in total packages for feisty->gutsy by clearing out a bundle of stuff.
<persia> But there are usually more, indeed :)
<micahg> persia: so working on Debian RC bugs in Debian at this point is like working on Ubuntu?
<persia> micahg, Yes, in two ways.
<micahg> persia: cool, will keep in mind
<persia> Firstly, by solving the Debian RC bugs, we get to apply those fixes in Ubuntu, to issues that are likely RC (and probably ought be SRUs)
<persia> Secondly, by helping Debian release squeeze, we allow the hundreds of Debian Developers to easily upload the newest upstream stuff, and we can autosync it.
<persia> So, it's fixing 200 bugs that we need to fix anyway to get ~1000 extra developers helping us get new software.  Seems more than a fair tradeoff to me.
<micahg> yep
<ari-tczew> persia: I would believe that sync package which fixes RC bug is enough.
<persia> ari-tczew, sync from where?  The RC bugs need to be fixed *in Debian*
<ari-tczew> persia: so what about column Fixed Version ?
<ari-tczew> http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/bugs/rcbugs/
<persia> ari-tczew, Those are RC bugs that have already been fixed in Debian but aren't yet fixed in Ubuntu.  We need to review them, and if they are critical for Maverick, SRU them.
<micahg> ari-tczew: I think persia means we need to fix the RC bugs not on the list yet in Debian, so they can be sync'd to Ubuntu
<persia> http://bts.turmzimmer.net/ is a reasonable place to look for RC bugs that need to be fixed in Debian
<persia> micahg, Actually, at this point in the Ubuntu cycle, I think it's more important to get squeeze released than to worry about syncs (especially as we're supposed to cherry-pick for SRUs)
<micahg> persia: right, I meant after squeeze was released
<tumbleweed> these days: there's also http://udd.debian.org/bugs.cgi
<persia> UDD is making all my carefully memorised URLs obsolete
<highvoltage> heh
<tumbleweed> persia: yeah I never remembered turmzimmer
<ari-tczew> persia: do you remember today case about plymouth bug?
<persia> Yes.
<ari-tczew> persia: I found resolution (note: work-around) for this problem.
<persia> Excellent!
<persia> So you have a graphic logo now?
<ari-tczew> but I didn't use this, because I want have system to fix the patch, not work-around script.
<ari-tczew> I can suggest people affected by this bug to use workaround
<ari-tczew> persia: http://techblogparade.blogspot.com/2010/09/fix-ugly-plymouth-screen-on-ubuntu-1010.html
<persia> Oh, too bad.  I was hoping for something sharable.
<persia> At least it makes your device pretty :)
<persia> Maybe it's worth talking to the #ubuntu-x folks about considering something like that for postinsts or something.
 * persia isn't sure that would really work for everyone, but it works around the limited kernel support from the binary drivers, and confirms that it isn't a bug in plymouth
<RAOF> Detecting BIOS-settable resolutions is somewhat of a black art.
<persia> RAOF, Do we not have EDID info when we use those drivers?
<RAOF> The EDID isn't what we're after.
<persia> What do we need beyond resolution and bit depth?
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-03
<bbigras__> Is it wrong that bug #786491 has 'Status tracked in Oneiric' if it only affects Natty and Maverick?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 786491 in lfm (Ubuntu Natty) "lfm crashes at startup, because of UnicodeDecodeError" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/786491
<micahg> bbigras__: no, there's an oneiric task open so that makes sense, do you need a task for maverick?
<bbigras__> micahg: Yes please.
<micahg> bbigras__: done, thanks
<bbigras__> micahg: thanks!
<shayonj> how do i know the section of program for the debian/control file
<shayonj> ?
<Rhonda> By reading the section descriptions and deciding yourself.
<shayonj> where can i find that or in the apt-repo description, you mena ?
<shayonj> mean*
<Rhonda> It's in the policy.
<Rhonda> ah, and that refers to the packages site. "neat" :)
<Rhonda> shayonj: http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/ - or in the package tool of your choice
<shayonj> Rhonda, oh alright. thanks :)
<shayonj> is using apt-rdepends is a good idea to find the dependencies of a package ?
<shayonj> actually i dont think so. thanks anyways :0
<shayonj> :) *
<RAOF> apt-get rdepends $X does the opposite: it finds the packages which depend on $X.
<Rhonda> the r stands for reverse :)
<shayonj> RAOF, Rhonda .. right. So do you guys know, what should I be using to check the dependencies as i believe dh_make doesnt do that on its own, right
<Rhonda> Use pbuilder/cowbuilder/some chrooted build environment with the minimal set of packages installed
<Rhonda> That will fail if you don't give it all the needed Build-Depends and you can work on from that point, iteratively
<shayonj> Rhonda, right, but for pbuilder i need .dsc and i am building this package from scratch
<shayonj> its like i want list dependencies in the control file
<Rhonda> So?
<Rhonda> .dsc is easy. dpkg-source -b and done
<Rhonda> You want to have *Build-*Dependencies in the control file. The dependencies should be figured out by dpkg-shlibdeps
<shayonj> oh i see
<shayonj> and does  dpkg-shlibdeps list them automatically in the control file later ?
<shayonj> i have the build dependencies in the control filoe
<shayonj> file*
<Rhonda> That's what the placeholder is there for
<Rhonda> The ${shlibs:Depends} will get filled in by dpkg-shlibdeps
<shayonj> right right
<shayonj> ugh.. thanks Rhonda :D
<Rhonda> So for the Depends in the binary package, you only need to add stuff that can't be automatically get figured out. For most parts, don't worry.
<shayonj> yep. its interesting, just taking a while to understand the working. Thanks Rhonda :)
<shayonj> what is a good packaging license any recommendations/suggestions ?
<RAOF> Generally one uses the same license as the rest of the code, although any free license is ok.
<shayonj> do i need to do any kind of registration for that or just list it ?
<RAOF> You're the author of the packaging; you just document what license you're releasing it under.
<shayonj> cool.
<shayonj> okay one more question, this package is licensed under GNU but it is not present here /usr/share/common-licenses/ . so should i just copy the text from its copyright file (from the source)
<shayonj> ?
<shayonj> i am sorry i meant, copy from the license file of the source*
<RAOF> Your debian/copyright file needs the full text of the license, yes.
<shayonj> okay.
<shayonj> yeah, i read it in the guide but thought it would a good idea if i just cleared the doubt before moving ahead. better to be on the safe side.
<shayonj> how do i find out the authors copyright ? or is the same as rest of it
<RAOF> I'm not sure what the question is.  The code you're packaging presumably has a license attached (if it doesn't, then it's not redistributable, and we can't put it in the archive).
<shayonj> RAOF, yes it does have a license attached to it. but here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#copyright it says "Copyright:" and thats where the authors copyright goes in, right ? so i am asking where do i get that info from
<shayonj> it says this - Copyright:
<shayonj>         Copyright (C) {Year(s)} by {Author(s)} {Email address(es)}
<RAOF> Hm.  That documentation should be updated to point to http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5/
<shayonj> okay.
<shayonj> thanks for that !
<shayonj> been a long day. time to stretch. night guys
<ScottK> RAOF: DEP-5 is not required.
<ScottK> It seems like a lot of non-requirements to point people at.
<whelmingbytes> Hi, I am in need of some help enabling desktop effects when logging in with Ubuntu Classic after installing gnome-panel. Any one have any ideas?
<nigelb> whelmingbytes: You should probably ask in #ubuntu, which is the support channel. This channel is for development of universe packages.
<whelmingbytes> ah ok thanks!
<gador> hi, I have a question: I want to pack a package containing a script compiled by node package manager (npm). But by doing a npm install <package> it checks whether there is a new version, but the build environment doesn't have a internet connection. How can I build and install the package without an internet connection? (Reference: bug 861219)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 861219 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] forever" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861219
<tumbleweed> gador: do you actually need to do any building? Can you not just copy the js library to /usr/lib/nodejs/$pkg ?
<gador> tumbleweed, I could try that, but yes, by doing a sudo npm install forever -g, it does compile things
<tumbleweed> oh, so there are c extensions
 * tumbleweed knows nothing about node packages
<gador> tumbleweed, see http://paste.ubuntuusers.de/403177/ it is the output of the install
<gador> if I cut internet connection, it complains about not being able to connect to the main node server to check for a newer version
<gador> tumbleweed, too bad you don't know so much about node..
<tumbleweed> gador: I'd ask these guys: http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/pkg-javascript
<gador> tumbleweed, thanks I'll do that
<tumbleweed> gador: looking at the forever source tree, i don't see anything that isn't javascript. The stuff that's being compiled must be in the dependencies
<gador> tumbleweed, yes it seems the daemon package needs to be compiled (which is a dependency of forever as stated in package.json)
<tumbleweed> gador: you'll have to package all the dependancies first
<gador> tumbleweed, ah, ok. So I will have to pack "daemon" first, install it and then install forever?
<tumbleweed> gador: correct (and any other forever dependencies that aren't packaged)
<gador> tumbleweed, so I would have to pack all 12 dependencies first, get them installed and then install forever..?
<tumbleweed> gador: yes
<gador> tumbleweed, great ;-)
<gador> tumbleweed, thanks for your help! I think I'll get back to that tomorrow and go to bed now ;-)
<m4n1sh> there is a 1 line patch for a universe package in oneiric
<m4n1sh> can it be accepted at this time?
<tumbleweed> yes, if it's important
<m4n1sh> I don't think it is an important package
<m4n1sh> but yeah people do use it
<m4n1sh> not sure about the popularity
<m4n1sh> it is gnome-activity-journal
<m4n1sh> right now it does not work
<m4n1sh> due to a method which blocks loading of the UI
<tumbleweed> no I mean an important pant
<tumbleweed> patch
<m4n1sh> well, don't know how you define important
<m4n1sh> but without that patch the application is right now broken
<m4n1sh> useless
<micahg> m4n1sh: that package is fine for bug fixes
<tumbleweed> making a not working package work is pretty important :)
<m4n1sh> micahg: tumbleweed right now that is completely broken
<m4n1sh> look at this askubuntu question for more info http://askubuntu.com/questions/64021/gnome-activity-journal-stalls/64105
<m4n1sh> micahg: tumbleweed or just this image http://i.stack.imgur.com/sZlC8.png
<micahg> it has no reverse depends, so bug fixes would be fine, no working is an RC bug and that's fine too :)
<tumbleweed> m4n1sh: go ahead
<m4n1sh> so shall I update this branch?
<m4n1sh> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/gnome-activity-journal/oneiric
<m4n1sh> means a merge request?
<m4n1sh> and 0.8.0-1 becomes? 0.8.0-2?
<tumbleweed> m4n1sh: or provide a debdiff. 0.8.0-1 becomes 0.8.0-1ubuntu1
<m4n1sh> never created a debdiff though, you people have merge right?
<tumbleweed> m4n1sh: not sure what the question is, but yes, you can create a merge request
<m4n1sh> thanks
<m4n1sh> doing it now
<m4n1sh> I created a patch directory
<m4n1sh> and put the series file
<m4n1sh> which contains the name of the patch
<m4n1sh> and put the patch in the patch file
<m4n1sh> now the problem is that when I look at the build log
<m4n1sh> it shows
<m4n1sh> dpkg-source: info: applying disable_set_background.patch
<m4n1sh> dpkg-source: info: applying debian-changes-0.8.0-1ubuntu1
<m4n1sh> the second patch comes out of nowhere and reverses the patch
<m4n1sh> how to solve this?
<tumbleweed> you didn't have the patch applied at build time
<m4n1sh> how can I do that
<tumbleweed> that behavior has changed in newer versions of dpkg, bt
<tumbleweed> btw
<tumbleweed> now it'll just abort
<m4n1sh> wont putting the patch under debian/patches be enough
<m4n1sh> for debuild to pick it up?
<tumbleweed> yes, so I'm assuming there's something else going on too
<m4n1sh> tumbleweed: you want the branch? or the build log?
<jtaylor> whats in debian-chages-0.8...?
<tumbleweed> m4n1sh: branch
<m4n1sh> tumbleweed: lp:~manishsinha/gnome-activity-journal/fixes-831436-gaj-notloading-oneiric
<m4n1sh> jtaylor: the exact opposite of the patch I added
<m4n1sh> it reverses it, don't know how it is getting created
<jtaylor> it gets created automatically by dpkg from the diff to the orig tarbal
<m4n1sh> yes
<m4n1sh> how to stop this in this case?
<m4n1sh> jtaylor: I looked at how Jo handled patch in zeitgeist-sharp and did in the same way
<tumbleweed> m4n1sh: your branch looks fine
<jtaylor> that branach has a stray debian changes in it
<jtaylor> remove it, clean your bzr tree
<jtaylor> then it should work
<jtaylor> debian/patches/series
<m4n1sh> you mean series needs to be there?
<m4n1sh> that file?
<tumbleweed> yes it needs to be there
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> but without the extra entry
<tumbleweed> right, it was fine once I removed that entry :)
<m4n1sh> which extra entry?
<jtaylor> debian-changes...
<m4n1sh> ah
<m4n1sh> even I removed that, but it gets created on the fly
<jtaylor> clean your tree
<jtaylor> bzr revert; bzr clean-tree
<jtaylor> but beware that removes uncommited stuff
<m4n1sh> debian/patches/series is there in the branch. Right tumbleweed ?
<tumbleweed> yes, it's there
<jtaylor> yes but incorrect
<m4n1sh> ah
<m4n1sh> that gets added
<m4n1sh> :(
<m4n1sh> trying, will take a min
<m4n1sh> yes, works
<tumbleweed> cool
<m4n1sh> here is the merge req https://code.launchpad.net/~manishsinha/gnome-activity-journal/fixes-831436-gaj-notloading-oneiric/+merge/78005
<tumbleweed> m4n1sh: btw, I suggest reading a quilt howto at some point (e.g. http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/howto/quilt.html ) you probably want to use the quilt command most of the time, rather than playing with patches by hand
<m4n1sh> tumbleweed: thanks a lot, bookmarked it :)
<m4n1sh> will read tomorrow
<m4n1sh> so do I need to subscribe some release of desktop or motu team to that bug?
<tumbleweed> m4n1sh: no, the branch will appear in the sponsor queue, but seeing as I've already looked at it, I'll deal with it now
<m4n1sh> thanks a lot
<m4n1sh> tumbleweed: I have overwritten the branch
<m4n1sh> so you might want to pull again
<tumbleweed> otoh, the sponsor queue is quite long right now, so making a noise about it helps :)
<tumbleweed> m4n1sh: you didn't close the bug in the changelog entry
<m4n1sh> so that is important? do I need to make that change now?
<tumbleweed> m4n1sh: and it's always helpful to document your patches: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<tumbleweed> yes, please
<tumbleweed> is there any disadvantage to not setting the background there? I assume upstream will take a slightly different approach?
<m4n1sh> so changeing "* Add patch to disable setting the background which was blocking AJ" to
<m4n1sh> "* Add patch to disable setting the background which was blocking AJ (Closes: LP #831436)"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831436 in gnome-activity-journal (Ubuntu) "Upon opening GNOME Activity Journal never gets past "Loading journal"" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831436
<m4n1sh> tumbleweed: it was just a cosmetic thing
<tumbleweed> no, you need a : after LP
<tumbleweed> Usually we don't use Closes for lp bugs, just LP: #XXXX
<tumbleweed> Closes: is for Debian bugs
<m4n1sh> esp about that changing background
<m4n1sh> that was just a cosmetic change
<m4n1sh> which created more of a problem
<m4n1sh> and the person who has done that is on leave (studies I suppose)
<tumbleweed> yeah, functionality is more important :)
<m4n1sh> tumbleweed: updated that
<m4n1sh> tumbleweed: I think everything is done. Please look at it whenever you got time
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-04
<achiang> woo. ubuntu-mono default font in launchpad?
<ScottK> achiang: --> #launchpad
<ScottK> Probablay explains why the text is smaller though.
<achiang> ScottK: hm, i don't see anything in /topic there, nor do i really have any further comments... just making a drive-by remark
<achiang> sorry for the noise
<ScottK> This is an odd place to expect to see information about a Launchpad font change in /topic.
<lifeless> I think its about the ubuntu font more than lp :P
<achiang> ScottK: i guess that was an unclear antecedent... "there" referred to #launchpad (but now i'm just making even more noise)
<ScottK> It's not really an "Ubuntu" font.
<ScottK> Although it's named that, I think it's intended for wider use.
<ScottK> (I find the naming a bit odd given what I understand the goals to be, but I may just misunderstand.)
<shayonj> i am building package from scratch, and while using the pbuilder for .dsc. i am continuously getting this - dpkg-buildpackage: error: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
<shayonj> any help on this
<shayonj> for some reason debian/rules cant find /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk ... any help with this ?
<jbicha> shayonj: you probably don't have cdbs installed, you might want to just install packaging-dev while you're at it
<shayonj> jbicha, i do have cbs installed on my machine
<jbicha> shayonj: is cdbs in your build-depends then?
<shayonj> you mean is it mentioned in the source ?
<shayonj> control file ?
<shayonj> jbicha, no i did not include. But i did just now
<shayonj> jbicha, and got a checksum error
<shayonj> i thought debuild does that or do i need to use debsign for that ?
<jbicha> why are you using cdbs for packaging?
<shayonj> jbicha, i am just trying it, since i am not able to get the default /rules syntax to work. its saying  dpkg-buildpackage: error: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
<jbicha> and have you looked at http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/
<shayonj> wait a sec.. i was actually reading this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic.
<shayonj> jbicha, will try it right now thanks
<shayonj> jbicha, okay how do i know if the package uses cmake.. is it by knowing that it uses the makefile ?
<jbicha> shayonj: I've never dealt with cmake, packaging something from scratch is probably not a good way to start with packaging work
<shayonj> jbicha, i see
<shayonj> well i did do a bit debuilds as in not from the scratch.. but yeah this is my 2nd or 3rd packaging attempt
<shayonj> the other was successful btw :)
<shayonj> jbicha, cmake wont work in this case. just so you know :
<shayonj> :)
<dholbach> good morning
<sagaci> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi sagaci
<achiang> is it possible to get new packages from debian/sid into lucid's universe, possibly as SRU? or is a ppa the appropriate way to do this?
<geser> achiang: only as a backport to lucid (what packages you provide in your PPA is up to you)
<achiang> geser: i don't think i understand that statement. i was assuming i'd have to backport the package to lucid...
<achiang> geser: the question was more around, is it still possible to get packages into lucid's archive? or do i maintain them in a PPA?
<geser> achiang: only through lucid-backports or your PPA
<achiang> geser: ah, ok.
<achiang> geser: and how does one get packages into lucid-backports?
<geser> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports#How_to_request_new_packages
<achiang> geser: oops, i should have googled that myself. thanks for the pointer
<Rhonda> achiang: It is technicly possible, though new upstream versions are highly likely to get rejected.
<Rhonda> The SRU policy is pretty strict
<achiang> Rhonda: this is a brand new package, just landed in sid yesterday (i've been working on again/off again on this in my spare time for a few months)
<Rhonda> if it's a new package and wasn't in lucid yet, it's impossible :)
<achiang> Rhonda: ok, so lucid-backports is what i want then?
<Rhonda> I would guess so, yes
<achiang> ok, thanks all
<Laney> is the package in oneiric?
<achiang> (the original goal was to get this package into ubuntu in the first place, but did it the "proper" way of filing and closing a debian ITP)
<Rhonda> oh, wait, yes, if it's in sid yesterday, it won't be in oneiric.
<Rhonda> and if it's not in oneiric, there is no place you can backport it from.
<achiang> Laney: no, i assumed it was too late to get packages into oneiric's universe?
<achiang> Rhonda: right, i read the page geser pointed me at, and i'll have to wait to get it into ubuntu first, before doing a backport
<Laney> right
<Rhonda> You'll have to wait until P is there for lucid-backports, for now only PPA is possible.
<Laney> that's what i was getting at
 * Laney eyes mutt with suspicion
<Rhonda> Laney: for the P codename? :)
<Laney> no, I've given up on that ;-)
 * achiang really wants something platypus based. :)
<Laney> for "please stop hanging"
<achiang> playful platypus
<Rhonda> Laney: Pestering Pawnys
<Rhonda> wait, no. Penetrating Pownies
<Rhonda> hmm, sabdfl wasn't on irc in a while, was hi?
<Rhonda> he?
<cdunlap> I have a question about bug: 825807.  It seems that the changes that were made were rejected, if that is so, am I OK to work on this bug since it is unassigned?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 825807 in kubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "typo located in development/C/development.xml:302(para)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/825807
<cdunlap> I apologize if this isn't the place for this question, if it isn't, could you tell me the correct place to ask?
<jtaylor> if someone from the release team is monitoring this: please consider bug 576504 for oneiric (and natty)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576504 in singularity (Ubuntu) "Menu pops up repeatedly during game (w/savegame)" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576504
<jtaylor> cdunlap: given that there is no activity since a month I'd say go ahead and fix it properly
<cdunlap> jtaylor:  Thank you and I will take a shot at it.
<Laney> jtaylor: yeah looks good, sponsoring
<Laney> did they comment out some german translations or what is that?
<jtaylor> yes unused translations
<Laney> right
<jtaylor> thx
<showard_> hey motu-ers, I have an unseeded universe sync request. Bug #867731
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 867731 in librecad (Ubuntu) "Sync librecad 1.0.0~rc1+nolibs-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867731
<showard_> a depends was missing so help sometimes didn't show, we just added it. If anyone has time, we (the upstream devs) would appreciate it
<showard_> thank you!
<micahg> showard_: sorry, not unseeded, part of edubuntu
<showard_> ahh, yeah you're right! ok I know those guys, I'll contact them directly
<showard_> thanks
<showard_> (unless someone else here is edubuntu and can just do it)
<ScottK> stgraber: ^^^
<stgraber> hello
<stgraber> showard_: do you have a debdiff?
<showard_> I'll throw it up on launchpad, but it's these two commits:
<showard_> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=debian-science/packages/librecad.git;a=commitdiff;h=43ef105acc2fb5c0ee74596f24390b056d58e937
<showard_> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=debian-science/packages/librecad.git;a=commitdiff;h=e3790eb6b45e2ab32eb2aca4f8353eb067e852dc
<showard_> debdiff is at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/librecad/+bug/867731
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 867731 in librecad (Ubuntu) "Sync librecad 1.0.0~rc1+nolibs-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Low,New]
<stgraber> showard_: +1
<stgraber> ScottK: ^
<ScottK> stgraber: Go for it then.
<showard_> thank you
<stgraber> showard_: it's now in the queue, will close the bug once it's accepted
<jbicha> would someone like to sync gramps from sid to fix bug 864095?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 864095 in gramps (Ubuntu) "list index out of range in gettext.install(TransUtils.LOCALEDOMAIN, localedir=None, unicode=1)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/864095
<jbicha> https://gramps.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/gramps/trunk/NEWS
<Laney> got a diff?
<Laney> also an analysis determining that it is fixes only
<jbicha> Laney: the diff is huge, let me see if filtering the translations makes it better https://launchpadlibrarian.net/81958680/gramps_3.3.0-1_3.3.1-1.diff.gz
<Laney> you could also scan the changelog
<Laney> or git log
<Laney> I'll trust your assessment :-)
<jbicha> Laney: ok I read the changelog, lots of changes but they all looked like bugfixes & translation updates to me
<Laney> alright
<Laney> please make the bug a sync request and do the requisite testing and i will sponsor
<Laney> jbicha: thanks a lot :-)
<shayonj> have a question about debian/copyright. this package has pretty good amount of files... do i need to mention each file's copyright information in debian/copyright ?
<RAOF> You need to have the aggregate information there, yes.
<shayonj> uh-oh
<shayonj> okay :) and what if few files dont have the copyright info in them..
<shayonj> ?
<RAOF> So, if you've got src/foo/* with a MIT licence and a range of copyright (like (C) 2000 author <me@mine>, (C) 2011 author <me@mine>, etc) then you can have a single src/foo/* section.
<RAOF> They generally should have copyright headers; if they don't, that's usually ok, and they'll inherit the global copyright.
<shayonj> RAOF, cool. thanks :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-05
<shayonj> what do i do if i cant find the version number of a package ? (contact the author) ?
<micahg> shayonj: where is this package?
<shayonj> micahg, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/590082
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 590082 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] batchcommander" [Wishlist,New]
<micahg> no idea
<shayonj> yeah, i am gonna rest it for a while
<shayonj> then
<shayonj> debian does not accept packages built with cdbs ?
<shayonj> anyone ?
<broder> what? no - something around 20% of packages in debian use cdbs
<broder> (give or take...a lot - i haven't checked the stats recently)
<shayonj> broder, i see...well i thought so too. but i cant make sense of this - http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html
<broder> shayonj: that's referring to a specific feature of cdbs - DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_DEBIAN_CONTROL
<broder> which automatically regenerates the debian/control file at build-time. it's a bad idea
<shayonj> well my control file was generated by dh_make.. how do i find that out if its used DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_DEBIAN_CONTROL
<ajmitch> unless you changed it, it wouldn't have done it
<ajmitch> you can check in debian/rules though
 * RAOF would also *generally* use dh rather than cdbs, but that's a matter of preference and it's by no means mandatory.
<broder> is anybody actually recommending cdbs for new packages these days? i feel like it's mostly moved into legacy territory
 * ajmitch thinks you'd be more likely to get sponsors by not using dh, but that can depend on if it's something that's covered by a team in debian, and their preferences
<shayonj> i see
<shayonj> well the only Deb i got in my rules file is DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM=pysupport
<micahg> ajmitch: not using dh?
<shayonj> thats it
<ajmitch> micahg: bah, I *meant* not using cdbs :)
<ajmitch> micahg: brain & fingers didn't likne up
<RAOF> Heh.
<ajmitch> ^ again
 * ajmitch drinks more caffiene & shuts up
 * micahg was going to suggest an afternoon caffeine hit :)
<nigelb> caffeine..hrm!
<shayonj> i have a python package it builds and installs fine. but i believe its installing in the wrong place. any help on this ?
<ScottK> shayonj: Is it a package you want to get into Ubuntu or Debian?
<shayonj> ScottK, ubuntu
<ScottK> Sure.  Where is it?
<shayonj> ScottK, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/606231
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 606231 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Tornado" [Wishlist,New]
<ScottK> When can I find your pacakge?
<shayonj> ScottK, https://github.com/downloads/facebook/tornado/tornado-2.1.1.tar.gz
<ajmitch> how is this different from the python-tornado package in universe?
<micahg> nothing apparently :)
<ScottK> Looks like the same thing.
<shayonj> ouch
<shayonj> good thing to practice on ;)
<shayonj> ajmitch, thanks :P
<ScottK> shayonj: Is that a package you have interest in or just one you thought needed working on?
<jbicha> shayonj: also if you want to package a new Python app for Debian or Ubuntu, please use dh_python2, we're trying to get rid of python-support
<shayonj> ScottK, i am kind of in a learning stage.so just trying my hands on some real projects thats it. But dont worry wont mess it up.. thought it would be a good way to learn....but yes i did run rmadison and couldnt find it..
<shayonj> jbicha, oh alright. sure, i will note that.
<ajmitch> shayonj: sorry to spoil things like that :)
<shayonj> ajmitch, hah no its cool. learn one more thing i this :)
<shayonj> this=guess
<ajmitch> for what it's worth, I did a search for "debian ITP tornado" to see if someone had filed a bug for it in debian, it it had turned out to be fixed there
<shayonj> right
<shayonj> will take care of this next time :)
<shayonj> i got a question. there are many packages i see, which have been tagged as [need-packaging] but already have a .deb file in the git/sourceforge
<shayonj> any idea about this?
<jbicha> shayonj: just because there are deb's available does not mean that they meet the standards for inclusion in the Debian/Ubuntu archives
<shayonj> jbernard, oh yes i understand. But what am i saying is, should we go ahead and see and if possible make them fit to the standards ?
<shayonj> and submit to revu ?
<micahg> also, they don't usually include the source
<broder> or were built with alien or something
<shayonj> i see
<shayonj> when we create a package is it mandatory or something to create for other ubuntu versions ? Atm i am testing only on lucid
<shayonj> x86 and x86_64
<micahg> shayonj: only needs to work on the devel release and future releases
<shayonj> micahg, sounds good. thanks !
<shayonj> after run the linitian test i get this - native-package-with-dash-version
<shayonj> any help with tih s
<shayonj> this ?
<shayonj> i do have the 3.0 (native) in source/format
<shayonj> if i remove it, lintian gives me another message saying it is missing...what should be done ?
<shayonj> also the same for watch file
<shayonj> everything is fixed now. thanks anyways )
<shayonj> :)
<shayonj> need some help with native/quilt ...anyone up here ?
<RAOF> What's the question?
<shayonj> RAOF, i got 3.0 (native) in source/format
<shayonj> and when do i do the lintian test
<RAOF> That's almost certainly wrong.
<shayonj> it shows me this message
<shayonj> you mean i should have quilt ?
<RAOF> A native package is one for which there is no upstream - ie: some software which only makes sense in Ubuntu and Debian.  Things like dpkg and apt are native, as they're Debian specific.  If you're packaging some software, it's not a native package.
<shayonj> okay
<shayonj> but wait a sec
<shayonj> sorry about that.. so you mean its fine to have a  .debian.tar.gz instead of a .diff
<shayonj> .diff.gz
<shayonj> or may be i just read the english wrong here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#CommonMistakes
<shayonj> they just described what native and quilt and its not under common mistake
<shayonj> (?)
<RAOF> The .debian.tar.gz is a 3.0 (quilt) thing; that's the right thing to have.
<shayonj> phew
<shayonj> thanks RAOF ..just got confuse with the english i guess
<RAOF> The packaging guide is possibly out of date, too :/
<shayonj> yeah i kinda had a hard time matching up two same type of info.. specially in case of copyright
<shayonj> do i need to debdiff after i performed debuild and pbuilder ? because i already have the .debian with me
<RAOF> A debdiff is a the difference between two versions of the same package.  Since you don't have two versions of this package, it doesn't make sense to have a debdiff.
<shayonj> guess i will just make notes where all does it needs update on the packaging guide...
<shayonj> anyways thank RAOF . its been lot of pacaking. time to hit bed. Thanks so much :)
<shayonj> packaging *
<dholbach> good morning
<jamespage> morning all
<SanbarComputing> There is a problem with the following UBT wiki.  I wrote an e-mail to the author, but got now reply.  Who can I ask about it? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Development/Devbeginnings
<SanbarComputing> s/now/no
<micahg> SanbarComputing:  #ubuntu-beginners
<SanbarComputing> micahg: thanks
<Laney> Rhonda: are you aware that packages.u.c has 404 links to copyright files?
<Laney> some are there ...
<Laney> ah, maybe it links to $package.copyright when it should be just copyright
<nigelb> Hi, I helping add something to the etherpad that dholbach mailed about.
<nigelb> I need some help phrasing this
<nigelb> What I want to add is that you need not be a member to contribute
<Rhonda> Laney: the copyright and changelog files are extracted and get published on a different host
<Laney> Rhonda: seems like it's just a matter of fixing the link?
<Laney> currently it goes to http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/o/ocaml-dssi/ocaml-dssi_0.1.0-1/libdssi-ocaml.copyright but it should be http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/o/ocaml-dssi/ocaml-dssi_0.1.0-1/copyright for example
<Rhonda> The thing is, that would break other things
<Rhonda> multiple binary packages in a single source package
<Laney> I suppose they could technically be different
<Laney> I don't know how the importer decides when to create binary.copyright
<jtaylor> someone feel like sponsoring bug 811721?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 811721 in pycryptopp (Ubuntu Natty) "update pycryptopp to version 0.5.29-1 in natty" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/811721
<jtaylor> last reply is an ack from SRU if I did not misinterpret it
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: is there anything else of yours that needs action for oneiric?
<jtaylor> yes one thing, but thats still wip :/
<tumbleweed> ok, reminder again to apply for upload rights
<jtaylor> yes, I delayed it as I needed to judge how much time/will I still have for it after starting my new job
<tumbleweed> you don't need to commit to any particular amount of time :)
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: sponsored
<jtaylor> thx
<jtaylor> yey only 6 month and it is finally fixed :)
<jtaylor> I hope ;)
<tumbleweed> it still needs to be approved and SRU verified...
<jtaylor> yes but thats not needs to be done by me ;)
<alkisg> Hi. I have a native package (I'm upstream + packager). So I do `debuild -S -sa; dput ...` and upload it to my PPA for e.g. Lucid.
<alkisg> The problem is that if I want to reupload it for e.g. Natty, launchpad refuses it because the source is already uploaded
<alkisg> How can I handle this?
<jtaylor> don't use -sa for that
<alkisg> So, run `debuild -S -sd` for a second time, and upload to natty?
<alkisg> With the same package version?
<alkisg> The package is not in the ubuntu archives, so the first time I do have to upload it
<jtaylor> hm not sure, but I think the version must be different
<jtaylor> ~natty1 added or so
<alkisg> Hm. Then it would be faster to not have a native package, i.e. to split the source from the packaging
<jtaylor> "Version numbers must be unique. This has implications if you want to provide packages for multiple Ubuntu series at once:"
<alkisg> I could then upload the source once, and use the same `debuild -sd` for all the other series
<jtaylor> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage
 * alkisg reads...
<jtaylor> "If your package does need to be recompiled to support multiple Ubuntu series, then you should add a suffix of a tilde and the series name to the version number"
<alkisg> jtaylor: sorry I forgot to thank you - I ended up using a recipe so that I don't have to create a script for all those ~lucid1, ~natty1 uploads
<jtaylor> gna I overlooked another important bugfix in meld git :/
<jtaylor> btw thats another package where the sync from experimental should never have been made
<tumbleweed> just how much do you use meld?
<jtaylor> very much
 * tumbleweed uses it a couple of times a year
<jtaylor> I pretty much daily
<jtaylor> whenever there is something to compare
<jtaylor> I'm all in favor of tightening the sync rules from exp
<jtaylor> there is a reason it is a development version and that its only in experimental
<jtaylor> and whoever requested the sync never even commented on any of the resulting bugs
<tumbleweed> :/
<tumbleweed> well, at least we have someone caring for it now
<shayonj> where can i find a list of sections in ubuntu. i somehow lost the link..cant find it now. anyone ?
<shayonj> its for the debian\control
<tumbleweed> http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/
<shayonj> tumbleweed, thanks
<shayonj> this program doesnt has a man page and when i run lintian on .changes it tells me it cant fine one. is it okay not to have a man page ?
<RAOF> shayonj: Maybe.  Generally what that means is that it's time to write a manpage (which can be pretty easy with the help of help2man and similar tools)
<shayonj> RAOF, okay. looking into it. thanks :)
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> is there a glassfish version 3 package available for 8.04 ?
<shayonj> anyone here uses(ed) pod2man ?
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-06
<shayonj> need some help with DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES anyone here ? :)
<lajjr> shayonj,  maybe I can help you?!?
<shayonj> lajjr, i am currently building it again. will let you know soon.
<shayonj> oops
<shayonj> i am currently creating a package. my devel machine is lucid , should i also process it for 11.10 ?
<shayonj> or can i ?
<jbicha> shayonj: you ought to test if it builds on oneiric, but the oneiric archives will be closing soon
<jbicha> shayonj: have you set up a pbuilder/sbuilder or similar yet?
<shayonj> jbicha, yep i have building environment setup (pbuilder)
<shayonj> can i have oneric on it ?
<jbicha> shayonj: make a pbuilder for oneric then
<shayonj> jbicha, okay
<shayonj> and jbicha why am i getting Checksum doesn't match for i386 ? i am running a amd64 machine...i get this message when i upload to ppa
<shayonj> or does any one else know ? :)
<shayonj> how can i get a .deb package built?
<shayonj> for some reason i cant get .deb package...when using debuild -S (source). any help ?
<RAOF> You'll only get a source package when using debuild -S.  Because you're asking for only source packages, that's what -S means.  .debs are binary packages.
<shayonj> right..but dont we have to submit . deb to revu
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> only source packages to either REVU or to launchpad PPAs
<shayonj> ajmitch, thanks so much.. man
<shayonj> revu is only accepting packages for oneric, so does anyone know when can i upload for lucid ?
<RAOF> You cannot upload for lucid.  It's been released; no new packages are accepted.
<shayonj> RAOF, oh i see. is there a way i can delete the upload then ? i cant find any :P
<shayonj> any way to delete or revert it back
<RAOF> And, for that matter, oneiric is frozen, so Precise Pangolin is when the next set of new packages will be accepted.
 * ajmitch should change revu to accept 'precise' as wel
<RAOF> You can just upload again; they'll overwrite.
<shayonj> okay so which one should i build for oneric or pangolin ? sorry i am getting confused
<shayonj> as in which ones are still accepting
<shayonj> ?
<shayonj> none?
<ajmitch> oneiric is closed for new uploads, precise will be open in a couple of weeks, but you can still upload packages to REVU
<ajmitch> it's preferred to get new packages in via Debian, to get a wider audience & to help more people
<shayonj> ajmitch, i see. well thanks again ajmitch :)
<shayonj> i get this on revu - This package could not be extracted; there's no browsable directory for it on REVU. .. whats that suppose to mean ?
<shayonj> Annoucement : My first package upload to revu. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=9283 . Any suggestions/comments will be appreciated.
<shayonj> Announcement : My first package upload to revu. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=9283 . Any suggestions/comments will be appreciated.
<ajmitch> dholbach: morning!
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<ikonia> part
<ikonia> pp[s
<ikonia> oops
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-07
<shayonj> will the motu be reviewing packages for oneiric ?
<ScottK> Some will, but there are always a lot more packages wanting review than there are reviewers.
<ScottK> You might consider trying to get your package into Debian (it would be synced into Ubuntu from there)
<shayonj> ScottK, okay. thanks :)
<micahg> shayonj: any new package would go into precise at this point, not oneiric
<shayonj> micahg, alrighty :)
 * ajmitch is still trying to get used to the new name
<micahg> ajmitch: what precisely is the issue you're having?
 * micahg ducks
<ajmitch>  /kick
<shayonj> just wondering, is precise the actual tag. as in is precise the tag that will be replacing oneiric/lucid/natty/etc etc
<shayonj> :p
<micahg> shayonj: yep, it's the codename
<shayonj> codename, thats the word. thanks micahg :)
<micahg> I think suite name is the appropriate word for that entry in the changelog
<micahg> I didn't want to be imprecise
<shayonj> hah ok
<shayonj> just a note- apparently there is no precise for pbuilder
<ajmitch> micahg: you're going to be on these puns for weeks, aren't you?
<micahg> shayonj: update oneiric
<micahg> ajmitch: precisely :P
<shayonj> micahg, didnt get that ? update oneiric to precise in changelog or pbuilder ?
<micahg> shayonj: sorry, you can't build for precise yet, the archive doesn't exist
<geser> shayonj: a precise pbuilder becomes useful once the precise archive is ready (which will be around 2 weeks after oneiric release)
<shayonj> micahg, i see. so just making the change in the changelog be a good idea ?
<micahg> shayonj: not yet
<shayonj> micahg, i see
<micahg> although pbuilder should recognize it as a suite at this point I think
<shayonj> geser, okay. thanks for the info. so will precise be still accepting packages ?
<shayonj> micahg, it just says nknown distribution Â«preciseÂ»
<shayonj> u
<shayonj> unknown *
<micahg> hmm, do you have distro-info 0.2.2?
<shayonj> no
<geser> shayonj: most of the tools don't know the new name yet
<shayonj> just a sec, let me get it
<shayonj> geser, thought so :)
<micahg> geser: well, whatever was patched to use distro-info would know about it
 * micahg isn't sure it pbuilder fits the bill
<shayonj> micahg, what exact is distro-info 0.2.2
<micahg> shayonj: a package that contains the codenames and when they're active in a single place
<shayonj> micahg, okay so how will it be helpful ? Sorry to be to buggy :p
<geser> micahg: IIRC pbuilder doesn't care about it as long as debootstrap know how to bootstrap it
<micahg> geser: I think that was taken care of already as well
<geser> yep
<shayonj> okay, so how exactly can/do you build for precise ?
<ajmitch> you use an oneiric pbuilder for now - precise doesn't exist yet, but will be based on oneiric
<shayonj> ajmitch, yeah i did do that and i have the oneiric build with me and on revu..
<shayonj> but thats not the same as submitting for precise, right ?
<ajmitch> you still need to change debian/changelog to target precise
<shayonj> i see
<ajmitch> what's in debian/changelog doesn't affect what pbuilder tarball/config you use to build it with
<shayonj> okay !
<shayonj> ajmitch, a question. if i upload it to revu it will overwrite my existing upload of oneiric , right ?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> if revu complains about not supporting precise, ignore the warnings & they'll be fixed
<shayonj> sounds good thanks
<shayonj> thanks so much. you guys have a been a great help as a community. appreciate that. good night/morning for now
<ajmitch> night
 * ajmitch should probably upgrade to oneiric tonight to see what all the fuss is about
<ajmitch> finally upgraded the laptop to natty, rebooting it now :)
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch, hi geser
<ajmitch> dholbach: and how are you today? :)
<dholbach> I'm trying to wake up :)
<dholbach> how about you?
<ajmitch> just considering dinner & upgrading to oneiric
<dholbach> nice :)
 * ajmitch upgraded to natty today on the laptop, was a bit rough in places
<geser> ajmitch: file bugs :)
<ajmitch> mostly my own fault for having packages installed from PPAs, so bugs aren't really worth it in those cases
<ScottK> ajmitch: To natty or from natty?
<ajmitch> ScottK: to natty, I upgraded to maverick a few weeks ago
<ScottK> I see.
<ajmitch> my laptop had been on lucid for quite awhile
<ScottK> Don't try to use LibreOffice if you've got your hard drive encrypted.
<ScottK> There's a really fun combination that makes LO virtually unusable.
<ajmitch> poor performance, or does it cause everything to blow up?
<ScottK> Both.
<ajmitch> mine's not encrypted or using LVM or anything special
<ScottK> Should be fine then.
<ScottK> Fixed in oneiric,  BTW (was a kernel bug)
<ajmitch> fun
<ajmitch> I've been running natty on my desktop for quite awhile, it's not like I'm completely out of touch :)
<ajmitch> maybe I can upgrade my desktop's hardware for the next LTS, iirc it was installed with a dapper daily ISO
<ajmitch> ScottK: what happened with the proposal of opening -backports at feature freeze? was that discussed with the TB?
<verwilst> Ng, ping
<Ng> verwilst: hi
<verwilst> Ng, you have 1 minute in private? :)
<Ng> sure
<verwilst> Ng, on a side-note, your email made me discover terminator
<verwilst> never looked back to gnome-terminal :)
<Ng> heh
<Zhenech> o/ Ng
<Ng> hey Zhenech :)
<blueyed> Is there another way than apt-build to build (some) packages natively, i.e. using -mtune=native?
<blueyed> I have found apt-src, too.
 * blueyed would really like to have an optimized build of firefox, especially while using i386 on a 64bit system (I will reinstall with Oneiric getting (more) stable).
<jtaylor> using dpkg-buildflags might do it for a bunch of packages
<jtaylor> see the manpage for its configurationfile
<ScottK> ajmitch: What happened is I still didn't get time to write it down and make a coherent proposal to the TB.  Still on my TODO.
<blueyed> jtaylor: dpkg-buildflags would still require manual building (will pbuilder pick it up?), and apt-build/apt-src might be easier to handle upgrades.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-08
<pwuertz> hi, there is a bug in python-sympy I reported a few months ago, but nobody replied so far
<pwuertz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sympy/+bug/776559
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 776559 in sympy (Ubuntu) "expand returns incorrect results for non-commutative symbols" [Undecided,New]
<pwuertz> can someone update or remove this package please?
<Laney> O_O
 * Laney wonders how motu managed to become a maintainer
<pwuertz> Laney, well.. the package is in universe... so I'm asking the masters of the universe to update or remove it, right?
<Laney> oh no, I wasn't talking to you.
<Laney> ideally the debian python maintainers would take care of sympy
<jtaylor> there is some discussion here: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=635364
<ubottu> Debian bug 635364 in python-sympy "please package fresh upstream release (7.0 ATM)" [Normal,Open]
<jtaylor> but it seems progress is slow
<jtaylor> btw is there a tool to forward ubuntu bugs to debian? the reverse of import-bug-from-debian?
<Laney> dont know of one
<OwaisL> Could someone please help me use dh_girepository? I'm using {gir:Depends  ${gir:Depends} in debian/control. What I want is an automated way to add used gir modules to depends.
<jtaylor> what is the problem?
<OwaisL> jtaylor, I'm not sure if dh_girepository is meant for it.  I've  a python package and I want to extract gir* packages it depends on. So, I'd like something that scans the source files and looks for from gi.repository import X and adds that gir* package to depends. Anything like that available?
<jtaylor> don't think so
<jtaylor> but I also don#t know how this gir stuff works
<ScottK> Don't forget we are still accepting bug fixes for unseeded Universe packages ...
<jtaylor> when is the last sync run?
<ScottK> Probably Monday.
<ScottK> Is there stuff you've got in the queue now?
<jtaylor> one but its only been uploaded to debian today
<jtaylor> still in incoming
<ScottK> OK.  Should be doable.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-09
<hakermania> Hey, can anyone drop me a link on how to get a program that's in the archives to update through the update manager? t35 free hosting closed permanently without any warning and we have to move the site. We need to update the program as well.
<hakermania> Well, I found it :D. The reason I have doesn't seem to be so good... But the application has been improved very much and I have fixed some major bugs. Do you think I could gain an update?
<tumbleweed> hakermania: we're almost at the end of feature freeze, with the release coming out next week. I don't think getting an update in before then is possible. If you have specific bug fixes rather than new features, we can do a https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<hakermania> tumbleweed, yeah, I am not in a big hurry, I have generally fixed many issues, improved the code *very* much, cleaned it up etc. There's no any very very major bug except the fact the the site has changed due to t35 service that closed...
<hakermania> Is this imprortant enough for an update?
<tumbleweed> no, I don't think so
<hakermania> tumbleweed, well, then when do new versions (that generally include minor bug fixes and new features) should go in?
<tumbleweed> hakermania: new versions go into the new development release
<hakermania> tumbleweed, Oh, Ok, I got it. Through REVU again? Same process?
<tumbleweed> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/introduction-to-ubuntu-development.html explains some of this
<tumbleweed> REVU, or a link to the new tarball, and a debdiff of your packaging
<tumbleweed> or even better, get it into debian
<hakermania> All roads lead to Ro..err, to debian :/
<Laney> file a bug, link to new tarball, attach new diff.gz/debian.tar.gz
<Laney> or do a merge proposal against lp:ubuntu/yourpackage
<Laney> *cough* or get your Debian sponsor to upload it and then request a sync
<ajmitch> Laney: you're offering? :)
<Laney> the first step is for the contributor to be willing
<ajmitch> it is preferable for packages to be maintained there
<Laney> this point has been reiterated innumerable times
 * ajmitch wonders how it can be made easier for people, since the usual complaint is that they don't have a debian install
<Laney> if installing a vm is too hard, then there are probably bigger problems
<jtaylor> laney: maybe you can comment on bug 840135
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 840135 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "oneiric-backports enabled by default in software-properties" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840135
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: why should backports by disabled by default?
<jtaylor> it was before oneiric
<tumbleweed> yes, and it was enabled, as discussed at UDS
<tumbleweed> they are now safe to have enabled
<jtaylor> yes but not everybody knows that
<jtaylor> e.g. I don't know how to answer that bug
<jtaylor> I just know its intentional
<tumbleweed> hrm, maybe we should note it in the release notes
<jtaylor> btw someone please ack bug 871265, thx
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 871265 in keepass2 (Ubuntu) "Sync keepass2 2.16+dfsg-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/871265
<tumbleweed> Laney, ScottK: commented on the bug. Maybe you want to add a release note?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: sponsored
<Laney> what a weird bug
<Laney> 'something has changed'
<tumbleweed> well, advice we previously gave people isn't valid any more
<Laney> so the documentation needs updating
<tumbleweed> if people aren't told that it's safe, they'll worry
<Laney> what people worry about a problem with 0 evidence that it exists?
<Laney> if i were to announce it it would be "yay look how great this is" not "your system is not going to break"
<tumbleweed> looks like this person did. But this is a poinltless argument, I'm removing myself from it :)
<Laney> he also did not provide any rationale for his report
<Laney> and yes, i agree
 * Laney carries on trying to replicate the darcs ftbfs
 * tumbleweed carries on fixing non-blocking IO in pypy
<tumbleweed> Laney: I'm picking off the low hanging fruit from rcbugs. Sorry for the review work :P
<and`> anyone do have an idea about why quickly hasn't been pushed to Debian yet?
<and`> I see an RFP filed, but no actions since more than an year.
<tumbleweed> and`: RFPs tend to be ignored. There's more than enough work to do in Debian
<tumbleweed> as its' already packaged in Ubuntu, that could be turned into a RFA
<and`> tumbleweed: yeah, I wanted to upload it into Debian starting directly from the Ubuntu package
<and`> I think there won't be big deltas
<tumbleweed> and`: if you want to maintain it in Debian, go ahead. IT's still an RFP, nobody is doing anything about it
<and`> tumbleweed: sure, and if you're eventually willing to help me out, just let me know :)
 * tumbleweed hasn't used it myself, I usually only package things I use
<debfx> bdrung: I think it would be good to upload a vlc 1.1.12 (fake)sync to oneiric-proposed now since it's probably too late to get it into oneiric-release
 * Zhenech opens a can of worms: what's the status of gnome <something> in 11.10?
<Zhenech> or rather: what will be released
<tumbleweed> whatever is currently published in oneiric. Upgrade and see.
<Zhenech> sitting on a debian/xfce box â not so good idea ;)
<Zhenech> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/TechnicalOverview says 3.1.9ish
<jtaylor> its 3.2 now
<Zhenech> thanks
<Q-FUNK> would anyone have exprience of removing symbolic links and shuffling old configs around via *.preinst ?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-01
<dholbach> good morning
<obounaim> does Ubuntu sync "connman" form Debian I have some conflicts when merging from Debian?
<obounaim> How to resolve bzr conflicts when merging from Debian please?
<cjwatson> Laney: Did you get anywhere with debugging the haskell-cmdargs segfault on armhf?
<Laney> oh, no, I kept putting it off :(
<Laney> I managed to reproduce it, but not even consistently
<Laney> some of (dpkg-buildpackage, runhaskell Setup.lhs ..., cabal install) worked and some didn't
<Laney> cjwatson: At this point, given that I fail to get round to doing it, if you're inclined you could just submit what we've got upstream and promise that we'll try to reduce it down if they need it
<cjwatson> If it's unreproducible we could just throw it at the buildd until it works? :-)
<Laney> it always fails on the buildd
<cjwatson> Damn
<Laney> well, from what i've seen anyway
<Laney> give it back if you want, won't hurt
<cjwatson> Trying for laughs
<Laney> you could munge d/rules to increase verbosity for a potentially more useful bug report
<xnox> I did build haskell-cmdargs and it failed consistently in the sbuild for me =/
<Laney> ok, maybe I tried to do incremental builds to narrow it down and it started succeeding or something
<Laney> sorry, I've not been very useful on this
 * Laney should ask for some +1 time
<cjwatson> It's certainly sitting in   /usr/lib/ghc/lib/ghc -B/usr/lib/ghc --make -o dist-ghc/build/cmdargs/cmdargs -hide-all-packages -fbuilding-cabal-package -no-user-package-conf -package-conf dist-ghc/package.conf.inplace -i -idist-ghc/build/cmdargs/cmdargs-tmp -i. -idist-ghc/build/autogen -Idist-ghc/build/autogen -Idist-ghc/build/cmdargs/cmdargs-tmp -optP-include -optPdist-ghc/build/autogen/cabal_macros.h -odir ...
<cjwatson> ... dist-ghc/build/cmdargs/cmdargs-tmp -hidir dist-ghc/build/cmdargs/cmdargs-tmp -stubdir dist-ghc/build/cmdargs/cmdargs-tmp -package-id base-4.5.1.0-8c67d52d15d6bd73226a17adad83c69d -package-id filepath-1.3.0.0-48f46361f0c76985974f14cae1eb2b26 -package-id process-1.1.0.1-fc1d9561f7585daae5100d436b332a54 -package-id template-haskell-2.7.0.0-0bf2a4803893b6943758a73d07a64ced -package-id ...
<cjwatson> ... transformers-0.3.0.0-8adc8af166944d6a12d0b3cf842bba5f -O -XHaskell98 ./Main.hs   for a long time
<cjwatson> (scheat)
<cjwatson> Yeah, same failure on ishigaq
<cjwatson> Laney: I'm not sure I have enough haskell context to know what to send upstream, even ...
<Laney> cjwatson: OK, never mind, leave it with me
<cjwatson> OK, thanks :-/
<Laney> no worries, thanks for re-raising
<geser> jtaylor: do you have time to fix the qtemu FTBFS from the archive rebuild? it looks like a missing "#include <unistd.h>"
<ESphynx2> Hey guys... How do we get a package moved to the proper section? :) http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/quantal/misc/ecere-sdk  should be in devel, I wondered how it ended up in Misc? The control file said devel and in Debian it's in http://packages.debian.org/experimental/devel/
<ESphynx2> Oh no it's also in misc for the Source package in debian :|
<geser> in Debian the archive admins may override the section (which they apparently did), but Ubuntu uses the info from the control file
<ESphynx2> geser: Control file says https://github.com/ecere/sdk/blob/ppa/debian/debian/control
<ESphynx2> Section: devel
<ESphynx2> The binary packages are in the proper section... just the source that's in misc :|
<geser> Rhonda: ^^ can you help ESphynx2?
<jtaylor> geser: looking
<ESphynx2> thanks guys
<jtaylor> meh more issues than just unistd ._.
<ESphynx2> unistd? :|
<geser> ESphynx2: not you, different issue
<ESphynx2> oh :)
<jtaylor> mh #define error(...) before system file includes, the question is now, intentional or bug ._.
<obounaim> What the best thing someone can do now to help with Ubuntu 12.10 release?
<jtaylor> obounaim: testing is always good
<jtaylor> obounaim: you could also to go over this list and check if there is something worth syncing: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/multidistrotools/universe.html#outdatedinB
<jtaylor> speaking of it I should start getting to work on my action item ._.
<jtaylor> obounaim: if you know how, there also many build failures to fix: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/
<geser> or from the archive test rebuild: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20120922-quantal.html
<obounaim> thanks to all of you
<cjwatson> ESphynx2: sections aren't really that important or well-maintained
<ESphynx2> cjwatson: I was just curious why the source section didn't get picked up properly :|
<ESphynx2> They help when you're looking for a package though...
<cjwatson> source sections even less well-maintained in general :-)
<cjwatson> The upstream control file is irrelevant - it's the one in the Debian source package that matters
<cjwatson> Anyway, I've overridden the source section to devel for you now
<ESphynx2> cjwatson: Ah thanks, but yeah the Debian source package control file is the one I was referring to...
<cjwatson> It'll show up properly in the Ubuntu archive after the next publisher run
<ESphynx2> thanks cjwatson
<ESphynx2> http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/ecere-sdk/ecere-sdk_0.44.01-1.debian.tar.gz -- that does say Section: devel in there
<ESphynx2> just wondering how it all happened :P
<cjwatson> Don't know then
<cjwatson> Suppose it could be a Launchpad bug
<ESphynx2> cjwatson: But even on Debian it also shows up under misc for Sources
<ESphynx2> i.e. http://packages.debian.org/source/experimental/misc/ecere-sdk
<cjwatson> That suggests then that the Debian ftpmasters overrode it to misc
<cjwatson> Which probably explains why https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/ecere-sdk/0.44.01-1 shows misc too
<cjwatson> So probably not an LP bug
<cjwatson> Not something I care enough about to investigate further really :)
<ESphynx2> weird
<ESphynx2> Well, at least it's gonna be in the right Ubuntu section :P So thanks :)
<ESphynx2> I'll bring it up with the Debian guys :P
<DktrKranz> ESphynx2, cjwatson: recent changes to dak set source overrides as misc/extra
<DktrKranz> by default
<DktrKranz> this is to address debian #626394
<ubottu> Debian bug 626394 in ftp.debian.org ""Priority: source" in Sources" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/626394
<cjwatson> Seems conceptually unrelated though I can see why they happened together
<cjwatson> Also slightly unfortunate if people really are attempting to browse by section in the packages.* web interfaces
<DktrKranz> ACK
<DktrKranz> sections could be removed for good in the future
<DktrKranz> but I don't think that will happen so soon
<ESphynx2> All source packages become misc ?
<jtaylor> whats up with pwlib, huge installation numbers in popcon but almost zero vote
<jtaylor> did something in the past pull that thing in?
<jtaylor> a rverse-depends can check multiple series nice
<Rhonda> ESphynx2: When uploading a package to Debian with an "override mismatch" one gets a mail that explains what to do.  I think it's a mail to the ftpmasters, or a bugreport against ftp.debian.org, but it's written in the mail after the upload â¦
<ESphynx2> Rhonda: I didn't notice any such mail or 'override mismatch' ? :|
<Rhonda> Well, if the control file says different than the pool, there *is* some override mismatch. :)
<Rhonda> The override file is where the actual information is taken from into which section to put a package.
<Rhonda> And it's controlled by the ftpmasters.
<cjwatson> ESphynx2: You'd only have received it if you're the Debian maintainer of the package.
<cjwatson> Which is not clear to me from the above.
<ESphynx2> cjwatson: I am...
<cjwatson> Then I don't know.
<ESphynx2> where is that damn override file :P
<ESphynx2> It's just on the FTP? (i.e. not inside any of the downloadable tarballs?)
<cjwatson> /indices/ in the archive
<cjwatson> Though that's a reflection of database state
<ESphynx2> hmm no 'experimental' there?
<ESphynx2> In the override.sid.main, there is ecere-sdk	optional	devel	 in there ... but it's just the source package that's wrongly placed
<cjwatson> I think you want to be asking on a Debian channel at this point, really.  (No, I don't have a specific suggestion.)
<ESphynx2> right. thanks guys.
<jtaylor> whats the best way to do version comparison in a shell
<jtaylor> so that 2.10 > 2.9
<jtaylor> without dpkg --compare version so its upstream suitable
<mfisch> can someone confirm that the upstream link for this package looks incorrect before I break it?  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/owncloud
<jtaylor> yes that looks wrong
<mfisch> jtaylor: thanks, I'll break the link
<jtaylor> made some hack with cut and lots of if's
<jtaylor> this version comparison business should have been sorted out decades ago ._.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-02
<dholbach> good morning
<cjwatson> jtaylor: nothing other than dpkg --compare-versions is guaranteed to actually get it right for package version numbers.  But perhaps 'sort -V' would help
<cjwatson> $ (echo 2.10; echo 2.9) | sort -V | xargs
<cjwatson> 2.9 2.10
<dholbach> in 15 minutes we're going to do another ubuntu-dev hangout - anyone who wants to co-host? :)
<coolbhavi> dholbach, count me in :)
<dholbach> coolbhavi, ready? sent the invitation :)
<coolbhavi> yep
<coolbhavi> :)
<jtaylor> is the test rebuild still running?
<jtaylor> I'm surprised the number of failures is going up although we are fixing many ._.
<cjwatson> Yes
<cjwatson> It looks a day or so away from done on x86
<cjwatson> Several days off on armhf
<jtaylor> k, thanks for the sort -V hint, that looks useful
<geser> any volunteer to take a look at merging zsnes?
<jtaylor> hm I guess I could have a look
<jtaylor> I wonder if its still broken with hardening flags
<jtaylor> debian looks kind of invasive
<jtaylor> do we need something from there besides the 4.7 fix?
<geser> the version in quantal build-depends on ia32libs :( (ia32-libs : Depends: ia32-libs-multiarch but it is not installable)
<jtaylor> but thats not fixed in debian?
<geser> sort of: it's now i386-only
<geser> but can be installed on amd64 due to multi-arch
<jtaylor> -march=i486
<jtaylor> in the log, is that ok for ubuntu?
<jtaylor> honestly I think I would prefer to leave it failing for q
<jtaylor> the merge is enormous and zsnes works fine as is
<jtaylor> I don't want to break it 3 weeks before release
<geser> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20120922/+build/3846866/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-amd64.zsnes_1.510-2.2ubuntu5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> but I see that we don't have an amd64 build anyways (although the package is i386 and amd64)
<geser> so we can probably ignore it for quantal
<jtaylor> good that it gets decent attention in debian now
<ScottK> tumbleweed, Laney , micahg (whoever else I forgot): Do we need a session on pre-release backports opening?  If only to sit down and declare it done.
<tumbleweed> do we have policy to nail down, still?
<ScottK> Dunno.
<ajmitch> there's still some left-over work items from the last blueprint, do they need a session at all?
<ScottK> ajmitch: Link me please?
<highvoltage> ScottK: are you going to uds?
<ScottK> highvoltage: Yes.
<highvoltage> nice
<ajmitch> ScottK: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-backports-bof
<ScottK> ajmitch: thanks.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-03
<micahg> ScottK: I wouldn't mind a session on backports in general, but I don't think we need one specifically for pre-release backports
<ScottK> OK.  Let's do that.
<micahg> debfx: any chance of virtualbox 4.2 in Debian (so I can backport it to quantal)?
<MCR1> Hi :) I am missing the emerald (original Compiz/Beryl window decorator) package in Ubuntu 12.04 and 12.10, although Emerald works like it did in all Ubuntu versions before. Who can help me make it available as package in Ubuntu again ?
<debfx> micahg: virtualbox 4.2 is not DFSG-free so I'm not sure if I'll continue packaging it
<shloch> my first time here :)
<cjwatson> Laney: ghc-testsuite fails in the test rebuild because ghc is too new; does that need an upstream update or just a version tweak?
<Laney> oh gosh, I forgot about that package
<Laney> I imagine it needs a new upstream update for 7.4.2
<jtaylor> who rejected wakeup?
<jtaylor> I guess the changelog was not clear enough?
<Laney> stgraber did, but he should have mailed or pinged you
<jtaylor> not yet
<jtaylor> can I look up now who rejects things?
<Laney> no :(
<Laney> cjwatson: testing the new upstream
<stgraber> Laney: the problem is that we can't see who sponsored an upload so I didn't know it was jtaylor to start with :)
<Laney> oh, he wasn't the uploader?
<stgraber> no
<jtaylor> I uploaded but the changelog was from someone else
<Laney> mmm
<stgraber> well jtaylor was the uploader but the changelog entry was for David Glass
<jtaylor> I should have been in the changed-by
<Laney> I'd mail the Changed-By
<stgraber> jtaylor: anyway, it's a feature addition without a matching FFe
<jtaylor> hm Iguessed that
<jtaylor> its not really a new feature
<jtaylor> its a bugfix fixing a feature
<jtaylor> does that count as a new feature?
<stgraber> well "re-introduce" sounds to me like "turning on a feature that wasn't there before FF"
<jtaylor> reintroduce because the files where removed a few days earlier by someone else
<jtaylor> as they were broken
<stgraber> ah, I see, the previous upload on the 30th had an FFe
<jtaylor> I can ask the developer to file for an ffe if you wish
<jtaylor> but its more a release regression fix than a new feature
<stgraber> right, so that's reasonable. Can you re-upload referring the previous FFe bug number (1040213)?
<jtaylor> k
<micahg> debfx: oracle made it proprietary again?!
<cjwatson> jtaylor: Wasn't it turned off because python-evolution no longer exists?
<jtaylor> yes according to the author python-evolution is not needed anymore
<cjwatson> Oh, I see that from the bug now, right
<debfx> micahg: no, but the BIOS is only compilable with Open Watcom which has a somewhat insane license
<micahg> not bad, only ~350 total universe fails in the rebuild for x86
<micahg> and a third are already fixed
<cjwatson> micahg: Yeah, it's looking OK.  Of course we've probably been attacking the easy ones.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-04
<Laney> oh gah
<Laney> I ran into bug #1029155
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1029155 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[seeded-in-ubuntu] should be clearer that it takes a source package" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029155
<Laney> and I was one of the people who considered that not confusing initially
<MohamedAlaa98> Hello MOTUs :)
<MohamedAlaa98> When I tried to branch transmission I got this: Packaging branch status: OUT-OF-DATE
<MohamedAlaa98> what does that mean?
<Laney> It means that the packaging branch doesn't contain the latest package that is actually in Ubuntu
<MohamedAlaa98> thanks in advance
<Laney> look at debian/changelog and you'll probably see that it doesn't match up with https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/transmission
<MohamedAlaa98> yeah that's right
<MohamedAlaa98> I got this also: Most recent Ubuntu version: 2.61-0ubuntu2 Packaging branch version: 2.51-0ubuntu2
<Laney> yep
<MohamedAlaa98> laney: thank you :)
<Laney> you can see it listed here http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<Laney> usually the best thing to do at this point is to use the regular packaging tools and forget about bzr
<MohamedAlaa98> like git?
<Laney> no, like apt-get source transmission ; hack hack hack; dpkg-buildpackage -S ; pbuilder ; ...
<Laney> or pull-lp-source transmission if you're not on quantal already
<tumbleweed> Laney: bug 885541 just got fixed. I dropped the workaround in my lp-udd branch
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 885541 in Launchpad itself "Badly named .changes files aren't traversable" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/885541
<Laney> tumbleweed: oh, huh, cool
<Laney> I can't completely remember what the problem was
<MohamedAlaa98> ok, but when I finish my fix, wher should I upload it?
<Laney> MohamedAlaa98: debdiff on a bug
<Laney> oh yeah, you could upload randomly names changesfiles
<tumbleweed> people who uploaded _amd64.changes files to Ubuntu
<MohamedAlaa98> you mean create a patch?
<Laney> yes
<MohamedAlaa98> ok thank you very much :)
 * Laney tries to remember things about lp-udd
<Laney> it's been remarkably stable
<Laney> or silently broken?
<tumbleweed> that's a good thing :)
<tumbleweed> probably totally broken
 * Laney gets scared and checks
<tumbleweed> it certainly won't be dealing with copies from -proposed properly
<Laney> what's proper?
<tumbleweed> crediting the archive admin rather than the uploader
<tumbleweed> (is wrong)
<Laney> you checked it does do that?
<tumbleweed> no
<Laney> and it doesn't get it right
<Laney> e.g. catch the initial upload to proposed
<tumbleweed> haven't checked. but I assumed the right bits weren't exposed on the API
<Laney> I remember implementing logic to only take the first SPPH
<tumbleweed> ah, cool
<Laney> unless we special-cased release or something
<Laney>  Adam Conrad    | qemu-kvm | 2012-10-04 00:37:29+00
<Laney> still goes
<Laney>  Iain Lane      | make-dfsg | 2012-09-21 21:06:08+00
<Laney> works, that was a -proposed upload
<tumbleweed> cool
<Laney> thanks multipart emails with an empty text/plain part
<Laney> how useful
 * tumbleweed hates people who do that, esp when the text/plain part says "You need an e-mail client that supports HTML"
<Laney> ok, pulled your change
<Laney> Subject: Cron <udd@ullmann> $UAR ubuntu-{quantal,precise}{,-security,-updates,-proposed,-backports}
<Laney> [Packages] Unknown key Ubuntu-Webapps-Domain appeared 32 times
<Laney> [Packages] Unknown key Ubuntu-Webapps-Name appeared 32 times
<Laney> [Packages] Unknown key Ubuntu-Webapps-Includes appeared 32 times
<Laney> O_O
<tumbleweed> yay more crazy fields
<Laney> I should check that mailbox more often
<Laney> UDD really is quite frail
<tumbleweed> heh
<Laney> there's already been 12 mails from it today
<kerouac> Please remove github-cli! It clearly states "Does not function anymore" on its own site. See https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/github-cli/+bug/988276
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 988276 in github-cli (Ubuntu) "github-cli requires obsolete GitHub API" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Laney> kerouac: can you subscribe 'ubuntu-sponsors' to the bug and add a comment saying why it should be removed?
<Laney> then someone should come along and check that out for you
<MohamedAlaa98> hello :) I've submitted a patch here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/transmission/+bug/1058550
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1058550 in transmission (Ubuntu) "Small typo issue in the tracker's tab (maybe just in french)" [Undecided,In progress]
<xnox> MohamedAlaa98: please subscribe ubuntu-sponsors team and it then be reviewed =)
<MohamedAlaa98> Okay =)
<xnox> MohamedAlaa98: translations for packages in language packs are handled through launchpad web ui.
<xnox> MohamedAlaa98: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/transmission/+pots/transmission/fr/+translate
<xnox> MohamedAlaa98: can you check ^^^^ and find the wrong string and propose translation update?
<MohamedAlaa98> that means no need for this patch?
<Laney> that patch should be sent upstream
<cjwatson> But isn't transmission in universe, so not in language packs?
<cjwatson> xnox: ^-
<xnox> cjwatson: default torrent app in ubuntu-desktop?
<Laney> no, it's in main
<cjwatson> Err.  I guess my apt cache is confused
<cjwatson> Oh, transmission is in universe, transmission-gtk is in main, OK
<xnox> cjwatson: it can be the funny split one.
<MohamedAlaa98> =( so what should I do now?
<xnox> MohamedAlaa98: go to URL I gave above. click through till you find the string you want to fix. and Fix it there =)
<MohamedAlaa98> ok
<MohamedAlaa98> xnox: I can see that it has been fixed see: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/transmission/+pots/transmission/fr/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=Erreur+survenue+il+y+a+
<xnox> MohamedAlaa98: ok. th next lang pack upload will fix it in quantal.
<xnox> MohamedAlaa98: change quantal to precise in that URL to see if it's fixed there as well.
<MohamedAlaa98> xnox: yep
<MohamedAlaa98> it's fixed
<kerouac> Laney: tnx!
<dholbach> Laney, tumbleweed: are you up for being interviewed on our 24h marathon hangout? :)
<jtaylor> are the udd queries used to create this available somwhere? http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/multidistrotools/universe.html#outdatedinB
<jtaylor> the branch linked on the wiki is dead
<jtaylor> and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wgrant/multidistrotools has .bzr in source control so it can't be branched ._.
<wgrant> Yeah, that's pretty amusing
<wgrant> the Debian svn repo has .bzr in it
<wgrant> So it got imported
<wgrant> jtaylor: https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/multidistrotools/ubuntuwire should be the branch
<wgrant> It was formerly owned by ~ubuntu-qa, but someone deleted that team, it seems
<jtaylor> thx
<wgrant> Which wiki page has a link?
<jtaylor> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiDistroTools
<jtaylor> under branches
<wgrant> Ah
<wgrant> That's really ancient
<wgrant> I think mine is about as close to trunk as it gets
<wgrant> Yeah, that branch matches what's on qa.ubuntuwire.org apart from some minor template changes.
<tumbleweed> dholbach: I'm in the middle of pyconf ZA, which carries on to tomorrow, but I'm theoretically up for it if I have a minute and am not too drunk :)
<tumbleweed> *pycon ZA even
<dholbach> tumbleweed, ok, let me know :)
<Laney> dholbach: I have some problem with G+ on my laptop
<Laney> we'd get like 0.25fps
<Laney> :(
<dholbach> ah, a shame
<Laney> I should get a new webcam really
<Laney> then I could use the PC
<dholbach> Laney, I got one from logitech which really works well
<Laney> conference call me in :-)
<dholbach> I can look it up for you if you need it
 * Laney types webcam into the dash :P
<Laney> oh, look at those extremely relevant results!
<CareBear\> hihi
<dholbach> Laney, do you know if we are opening -backports earlier this time?
<Laney> dholbach: yeah it's already open
<Laney> we just have no documentation or communication
<xnox> =) brilliant =)
<dholbach> perfect
<Laney> I wouldn't call that a brilliant or perfect situation :P
<Laney> but you can do it if you happen to know it works
<xnox> meh, best not to loose focus on quantal. As it can get quantized very easily =)
<dholbach> Laney, will a package have to wait for R to open and get it into there to get it into quantal-backports?
<Laney> nope
<Laney> that's the cool bit
<cjwatson> be rather pointless opening -backports early if it did ;-)
<dholbach> of course :)
<Laney> If someone happened to have some spare time due to working an unusually large amount of time, they might consider writing some documentation about this cool new feature â¦
<cjwatson> "Early backports opening: oh god I need coffee somebody bring me coffee"
<dholbach> Laney, mhall119 just asked me if https://bugs.launchpad.net/quantal-backports/+bug/1061687 looked alright
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1061687 in Quantal Backports "Please backport unity-singlet 0.3-0ubuntu1 (universe) to quantal" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> dholbach: looks good to me
<dholbach> great
<Laney> I'll upload it in a minute
<dholbach> HERO! :)
<Laney> well
<Laney> doesn't it need to bump Depends to the version of libunity which introuced this?
<Laney> hmm, package reviews, that's a new part of backports :P
<mhall119> Laney: technically it'll run with Unity 5
<Laney> yeah?
<mhall119> the preview code won't ever get called, but it won't break
<Laney> the API exists there?
<mhall119> it's listening for DBus signals
<mhall119> if the signal isn't called, it just doesn't run
<mhall119> I mean, I can bump the Depends if you want me to
<Laney> no, I was just figuring it out
<Laney> sounds alright
<mhall119> cool
<Laney> ta
<mhall119> np
<kirkland> tumbleweed: ping
<shadeslayer> hi, I'm trying to package something which needs dbus, and the package only builds after I do a cp /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dbus-1.0/include/dbus/dbus-arch-deps.h /usr/include/dbus-1.0/dbus/
<shadeslayer> has anyone else encountered this? what would be the appropriate way to fix this?
<shadeslayer> full log : http://paste.ubuntu.com/1260214/
<JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: what's the top-level cmake file look like?
<tumbleweed> kirkland: hi
<tumbleweed> err, according to my calendar, we are supposed to have a MOTU meeting now
<tumbleweed> but nobody seems to be jumping up and down waiting for it...
<Laney> I AM!
<Laney> well, not exactly
<tumbleweed> yeah, I'm pretty busy right now
<tumbleweed> so I'm certainly not chairing. but if someone were to start one, I may pay attention
<micahg> shadeslayer: look for the headers in the multiarch path?
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1260238/
<shadeslayer> hm
<shadeslayer> possibly ship my own modified FindDBus.cmake that looks for headers in the multiarch patch
<shadeslayer> oh boy
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: have a look at the FindDBus.cmake shipped by kde-workspace-dev
<shadeslayer>   FIND_PATH(DBUS_ARCH_INCLUDE_DIR dbus/dbus-arch-deps.h
<JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: try include_directories(${DBUS_ARCH_INCLUDE_DIR})
<JontheEchidna> bbiab, running something over to the TA's office.
<shadeslayer> ah that looks interesting
 * shadeslayer rebuilds
<shadeslayer> w00t works
<shadeslayer> thanks JontheEchidna
<micahg> shadeslayer: hopefully you can just build-dep on that package
<shadeslayer> didn't see that var
<shadeslayer> micahg: on which package?
<micahg> kde-workspace-dev
<micahg> to get the cmake file
<shadeslayer> yeah I can :)
<shadeslayer> but include_directories needs DBUS_ARCH_INCLUDE_DIR as well
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-05
<lanoxx_> when i run 'bzr dh-make ...' it shows a list of some properties such as maintainer name and email address, but the email address and license that is shows are wrong, where does dh-make pull these variables from?
<tumbleweed> lanoxx_: I thought one had to tell it the license
<tumbleweed> it can't guess that
<jokerdino> hey devs, any idea when epiphany-browser 3.6 will land in quantal? i see only the source of it
<Laney> jokerdino: when webkit gets fixed :/
<jokerdino> it doesn't build on armhf, does it?
<Laney> right
<jokerdino> aww, so i have a choice to build it from source on amd64
<cjwatson> Hopefully it won't take that long and all you need is a few days' patience
<jokerdino> i'll wait
<cjwatson> Sorting it out one way or another is release-critical ...
<jokerdino> i would just install it and remove it in a matter of minutes anyway.. :/
<tumbleweed> kirkland: now that I see the uplead that you were pinging me about, thanks
<tumbleweed> I don't like checking for the existance of /etc/dpkg/origins/ubuntu, though. I have that on my Debian desktop... :)
<micahg> tumbleweed: the alternative for sks would be a .in file for the maintainerscripts so you can substitute in from debian/rules
<tumbleweed> micahg: yes
<tumbleweed> the danger of testing SRUs in build chroots :)
<micahg> tumbleweed: I'm surprised there's not a lintian check for that, would think it might be common
<cjwatson> marga: I just remembered the problem with '. /etc/lsb-release' (myunity)
<cjwatson> marga: bug 214861
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 214861 in localechooser (Ubuntu) "expects to be able to source /etc/lsb-release" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/214861
<cjwatson> marga: you might want to lift the shell code from either Debian or Ubuntu's localechooser package instead - it's battle-tested, it should be about as quick as sourcing the file, and it's safer
<marga> cjwatson, ok, I'll look at it
<marga> cjwatson, I'm a bit depressed about the sponsoring of this, though
<marga> I spent 2 weeks waiting for it to be in the "yellow" zone, and since whoever looked at it didn't like the description, it's back at the end of the queue.
<cjwatson> I think you got caught up in process confusion around -backports
<cjwatson> and I'm not convinced it's back at the end of the queue - didn't Laney say he'd uploaded it?
<Laney> yes. It's done.
<ogra_> yeah
<marga> Oh, I missed that.
<Laney> and it didn't take /that/ long. Try and get an SRU :-)
<marga> Laney, thanks!
<cjwatson> (I wouldn't put quite as much stock in the queue ordering as you do, BTW - it's not uncommon for sponsors not to work in the obvious order)
<cjwatson> I certainly often do easiest first
<marga> ok :)
<micahg> and backports is certainly not a queue
<marga> I'm hoping to get upload rights to universe, but first I need to clear some stuff regarding copyright at my current job.
<cjwatson> after that it shouldn't be too difficult for a DD
<Laney> yeah, also that wouldn't strictly help for backports
<Laney> unless you also decided to join the backporters
<marga> I think it would be helpful.
<Laney> we certainly wouldn't turn down competent help
<marga> Just so it's clear, I work for a derivative distro and we intend to use precise, probably until the next LTS, so having access to uploading patches to precise-backports would make my life easier and happier.
<Laney> You should be aware that myunity is a special case because it's removed from Q. Generally we backport packages wholesale.
<marga> Yes, I know.
<Laney> so it's not "uploading patches" in the usual sense
<marga> Right.
<micahg> we could consider PPU rights in precise which would grant backports uploading privs (bugs would still have to be filed and such, but would just need a review/acceptance in queue)
<Laney> well, that logically extends to all uploaders
<Laney> which brings us closer to the Debian model... maybe that's alright
<marga> I don't understand exactly what micahg suggested.
<Laney> extending the set of people who can directly upload backports
<marga> per package?
<Laney> yeah
<marga> Isn't that too complicated?
<Laney> which probably isn't what you're after, since you indicated that you want to go for MOTU
<Laney> the ACL is technically the same across components
<Laney> I haven't given it much consideration from a policy POV
<cjwatson> Well, as you say this is just social policy; if you can upload $package to $series then you can upload it to $series-backports too, as far as the ACLs are concerned
<Laney> it will still always land in the queue to be approved by a backporter
<cjwatson> Sure
<cjwatson> But that probably isn't a big deal
<Laney> I think that is what we want in any event
<cjwatson> (Queue review's easier than sponsoring)
<Laney> We look for some specific things in backports bugs though (which requestbackport gives you checkboxes for)
 * jokerdino pokes.
<Laney> So it would be good if most uploaders were aware of this if we were to extend the set
<jokerdino> i was looking at minitube src a while ago and they don't have any patch :|
<cjwatson> hmm?
<jokerdino> they just imported from upstream
<cjwatson> <cjwatson@sarantium ~/minitube-1.7>$ ls debian/patches/
<cjwatson> assure-quit-keybinding  disable-update-check  gcc-4.7.patch  proper-tempfiles  series
<jokerdino> and given recent changes for Youtube API, the one in quantal wouldn't work
<jokerdino> cjwatson: the same patches exist in 1.9 in debian
<cjwatson> bug 1057718, I guess
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1057718 in minitube (Ubuntu) "FFe: Sync minitube 1.9-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057718
<jokerdino> yes that
<cjwatson> jokerdino: your comment was sufficiently ambiguous that I genuinely didn't understand what you were talking about at first
<jokerdino> i am extremely sorry.
<jokerdino> was on another room :|
<jokerdino> anyway, i tried building it and it fails.
<cjwatson> I'm reviewing the feature freeze exception now
<jokerdino> thank you
<cjwatson> jokerdino: I guess your build environment must be wonky somehow, or else it's an architecture-specific failure; it builds cleanly in a quantal/i386 sbuild chroot.
<jokerdino> ah, it fails on amd64
<jokerdino> i was using pbuilder amd64
 * cjwatson kicks off an amd64 test build
<cjwatson> how did it fail?
<jokerdino> i'll test it again.
<cjwatson> don't bother, mine's running
<cjwatson> it was only if you already had it
<jokerdino> i did but closed it.
<cjwatson> jokerdino: Builds fine on quantal/amd64 too.
<jokerdino> should be a PEBKAC then
<jokerdino> bah, i purged the minitube source. too lazy to download it again
<jtaylor> what happened to default-jdk in ubuntu?
<jtaylor> or what should be used instead now?
<micahg> hrm?
<micahg> jamespage: ^^
<jtaylor> it can't be installed in quantal
<jamespage> jtaylor, still there as far as I can see
<micahg> wfm in a clean chroot...
<jtaylor> hm maybe I messed up my indices
<Laney> indeed
<jtaylor> was playing around with ports before
<jtaylor> a it works now sorry for the noise
<kirkland> tumbleweed: okay, well, then perhaps you can suggest another solution, that doesn't depend on dpkg-vendor?
<kirkland> tumbleweed: perhaps "lsb_release -si"
<micahg> kirkland: you need a binary depends on lsb-release for that
<micahg> bdrung: why did you tell that person to get those bugs for new packages in the sponsorship queue when they need an FFe?
<ScottK> Particularly when the odds of a new package FFe at this point are 'very small'.
 * micahg sees them as candidates for backports
<jtaylor> someone got a machine with sse4?
<jtaylor> I'd like to fix bug 1027977 but can't reproduce it on my machine :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1027977 in valgrind (Ubuntu) "strstr() function produces wrong results under valgrind callgrind" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1027977
<micahg> jtaylor: sse4_1 sse4_2 ?
<jtaylor> yes
 * micahg doesn't have time for anything complicated ATM though
<jtaylor> hm lets see if amazon as a suitable machine ._.
<jtaylor> is quantal backports open already?
<micahg> yes
<jtaylor> how does that work?
<jtaylor> there is no series to copy from
<micahg> unstable/experimental
<micahg> but the requestbackport script doesn't recognize them yet
<jtaylor> k, the usual procedure file bug and wait 6 month? ;)
<micahg> well, wait until the backporters see it, Laney's been busy with release duties and I'm trying to finish up stuff so I can +1
<micahg> s/see/have time to process/
<Laney> join the team?
<jtaylor> I was thinking about that
<jtaylor> though I doubt I could put much time in it
<jtaylor> great valgrind breaks if rebuilt
<jtaylor> mmh memory corroption
<jtaylor> lets see if I can run valgrind on valgrind
<Laney> ah, good ctte
<ScottK> Laney: ?
<Laney> ScottK: The Python question was put to rest finally
<ScottK> Oh.
 * ScottK looks.
<ScottK> Not a bad ending.
<Laney> aye
<jtaylor> success :D
<jtaylor> ops valgrind isn#t universe
<micahg> jtaylor: I can sponsor if it's bug fix
<jtaylor> its bugfix
<jtaylor> quite important even
<micahg> jtaylor: bug # w/debdiff?
<micahg> jtaylor: also, if I sponsor, you take responsibility to fix any fallout as I won't be available until after final freeze
<jtaylor> https://code.launchpad.net/~jtaylor/ubuntu/quantal/valgrind/various-fixes/+merge/128314
<micahg> jtaylor: do you agree to take responsibility for any fallout resulting from the upload?
<jtaylor> k
<micahg> ok, looks good
<jtaylor> all fixes are from upstream/debian
<micahg> right, I don't expect any, but I won't be available :)
<cjwatson> Hah, apparently I dodged having to be on record one way or the other on the Python question by forgetting to read my -ctte mailbox. :-/
<cjwatson> But my preferred option on the ballot won so that's OK.
<dlentz> i would like to discuss bug 1060813
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1060813 in youtube-dl (Ubuntu) "[SRU, precise] Current version (2012.02.27) doesn't work anymore" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060813
<jtaylor> micahg: as we are on the topic suggestion on what to do with minitube?
<jtaylor> its broken in quantal and fixed in unstable
<jtaylor> we could sync the major update, and hope it won't break again
<jtaylor> or remove it
<micahg> well, if we can get an MRE, I'd say sync latest version and keep up to date
<micahg> otherwise, remove, but not blacklist, and we can throw it in backports
 * micahg wanted an MRE for gnash as well
<micahg> but it seems development on it has slowed
<jtaylor> for the mre there is the question who files it, I really don't care about them ._.
<jtaylor> but I do care about packages being unusable in the archive
<micahg> cjwatson: would the tech board IYHO be willing to grant an MRE to something like minitube and youtube-dl which need to be kept up to date and belong in something like volatile?
<cjwatson> jtaylor: I already granted an FFe for the minitube update
<jtaylor> just saw it in the list
<cjwatson> micahg: we've established the general principle in the past; I expect it would depend on having a developer take responsibility more than anything else
<cjwatson> I'd rather we updated it properly in the mainline repositories rather than going to the effort of creating a volatile, though
<micahg> cjwatson: well, I would think it's in archive or backports
<dlentz>  cjwatson that's why I SRU'd
<cjwatson> I don't see why it shouldn't be updateable in -updates
 * jtaylor syncing minitube
<tumbleweed> kirkland: I'm fine with that approach for now :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-06
<obounaim> I get a 404 error when opening "http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/"
<gotwig> hey there
<gotwig> I would be pleased if someone could tell me where the code for "keyboard indicator" is on lauchpad.
<gotwig> I know that this is not ubuntu related, but https://bugs.launchpad.net/elementaryos/+bug/1055334
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1055334 in elementary OS "Keyboard indicator launches gnome-control-center" [Medium,Confirmed]
<jtaylor> when is universe freeze?
<jtaylor> not on the shedule, but I'm guessing ~ 16. oct?
<iulian> jtaylor: It's 16th for unseeded, yes. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze.
<ESphynx> Good morning gentlemen :)
<ESphynx> question -- Say I hoped to bring in a few fixes to the ecere-sdk before Quantal, is there still time? And would it have time to go through the debian queue as well? (Would I upload it there first?)
<l3on> Hi all.. do you think that a quilt-patch can be presented as "bzr log -pv" patch ?
<l3on> I mean... the head of the patch reports info about my bzr commit, do I need to clean it ?
<jtaylor> l3on: patches can have almost arbitrary information above them, bzr log patches should be fine
<jtaylor> same with git patches
<l3on> jtaylor, too late, updated to dep3 ...
<jtaylor> thats fine too :)
<jtaylor> better even
<l3on> :)
<jtaylor> cjwatson: is libavcodec-dev and libavcodec-extra-53 supposed to be coinstallable?
<jtaylor> it currently isn't but the last changelog of libav implies some kind of error?
<jtaylor> Depends: libavcodec53 (<= ${source:Upstream-Version}-99) | libavcodec-extra-53 (<= ${source:Upstream-Version}.99)
<jtaylor> but those two conflict
<ScottK> I'd ask siretart.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-07
<geser> Laney: could you please review/comment on the patch from Debian bug #665064? it fixes the kaya FTBFS (a Haskell package)
<ubottu> Debian bug 665064 in src:kaya "kaya: FTBFS: dpkg-buildpackage: error: dpkg-source -b kaya-0.4.4 gave error exit status 2" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/665064
<Laney> geser: looks sane to me
<Laney> I could upload that NMU
<Laney> but then again Vincent is a DD himself
<Laney> I'll ping him
<geser> whatever works to get the FTBFS resolved
<semvoz> good evening :)
<geser> anyone familiar with how Python dependencies got computed has an idea why python-jenkinsapi gets a dependency on a non-existant package and how to fix it?
<debfx> geser: it's parsed from requires.txt
<geser> debfx: why is it correct then in Debian? see http://packages.debian.org/sid/python-jenkinsapi
<geser> test building -5 in quantal ends in: Depends: python-lxml, python-bs4, python-pkg-resources, python2.7, python (>= 2.7.1-0ubuntu2), python (<< 2.8), python-beautifulsoup4
<geser> resulting in "python-jenkinsapi : Depends: python-beautifulsoup4 but it is not installable"
<debfx> hm, good question
<debfx> geser: in Debian /usr/share/python/dist_fallback has an entry for beautifulsoup4
<debfx> looks like it hasn't been regenerated in Ubuntu for a while
<debfx> ScottK: ^
<debfx> a quick fix would be to just pass --no-guessing-deps to dh_python2 since the package manually specifies the Depends anyway
<siretart> jtaylor: please file a bug. I'm currently travelling for another week, so I'll get to that as soon as I return
<jtaylor> siretart: so its a bug?
<jtaylor> it looks intentional
<jtaylor> * Have both libavcodec and libavcodec-extra package conflict with each other.
<siretart> jtaylor: I need to take a closer look
<siretart> jtaylor: actually, I do not want it to have coinstallable, but I there was some previous discussion about this that I need to review
<siretart> anyway, gotta run
<cjwatson> jtaylor: my understanding is that libavcodec53 and libavcodec-extra53 are not meant to be coinstallable, but that (following my most recent upload) libavcodec-dev and libavcodec-extra53-dev should be
<cjwatson> jtaylor: The earlier dependency you quoted was an or-dep, so it's not a problem in itself that its two elements conflict
<cjwatson> sorry, I meant "libavcodec-dev and libavcodec-extra-53 should be" above
<jtaylor> k I am asking because of the yorick-av ftbs, it depends on both, though extra-53 is only needed for a test that is easily disabled
<cjwatson> jtaylor: the problem with yorick-av is that libavutil-dev and libavcodec-extra-53 aren't coinstallable
<cjwatson> the output in the build log is a bit misleading
<cjwatson> sounds like it might make sense to disable that one test for the time being and file a bug ...
<c_korn> hello, can't I build a quantal chroot on my lucid server? there is no script for quantal in /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/
<jtaylor> c_korn: just copy one of the others to that name
<jtaylor> there all the same
<micahg> c_korn: you probably need debootstrap from -backports
<micahg> oh, hrm, it wasn't pushed back that far
<micahg> c_korn: if you want to test the reverse dependencies in lucid, I'd be happy to push a backport there, but as jtaylor said, it's just adding a new symlink I think
<c_korn> no quantal script in lucid-backports either: http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid-backports/all/debootstrap/filelist
<c_korn> the symlink did its job. thanks to you.
<ScottK> debfx: Remind me on Tuesday or convince barry to fix it.
<siretart> jdstrand: what kind of functionality does yorick-av require from libavcodec-extra-53?
<micahg> siretart: do you meant jtaylor?
<siretart> micahg: of course. sorry jdstrand
<siretart> jtaylor: what kind of functionality does yorick-av require from libavcodec-extra-53?
<siretart> thanks micahg
<jtaylor> siretart: just testing of h264
<siretart> jtaylor: libavcodec53 decodes h264 just fine. so why do you ned -extra-53?
<jtaylor> good question, someone else added the dependency so that the test succeeded
<siretart> jtaylor: have you tried removing that dependency? i.e., is it *really* necessary?
<siretart> I suspect cargo culting going on here
<jtaylor> I'm guessing then it will fail again
<jtaylor> didn't try it
<jtaylor> will do soon
<siretart> jtaylor: k. let me know
<jtaylor> siretart: yes the test fails with codec not found
<micahg> sounds like a yorick-av bug
<jtaylor> really?
<jtaylor> I recall encoding issues with x264 if extra was not installed
<jtaylor> the description of avcodec does not mention h264
<jtaylor> only extra
<micahg> oh, right :)
<micahg> it's an Ubuntu diff from Debian
<micahg> x264 is in universe
<micahg> it'll be nice when the main/universe distinction goes away
<jtaylor> is that planned?
<micahg> yes, just not sure when, last UDS we talked about trying for 13.04
<c_korn> hello, trying to build with my new quantal chroot there is this error: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=NDSG4dde this is my config: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Au4PqvUg the precise chroot is building fine. please help.
<micahg> c_korn: what group is listed in the precise config?
 * micahg has groups=sbuild,root,admin in his quantal config
<c_korn> micahg: the precise config is also in the paste. the warning about the admin group also appears in the precise build. maybe this is not the cause.
<micahg> c_korn: ah, right, the mount error is the issue
<c_korn> yeah, the error also appears with "groups=sbuild,root,admin"
<siretart> jtaylor: what does the failing test actually do?
<tumbleweed> I'd worry slightly more about the Es than the Ws
<jtaylor> don't know
<jtaylor> but how should it work if the codec is not available
<jtaylor> probably it does encoding
<siretart> jtaylor: please check. the only thing that I could image that would explain this failure is that the test tries to *encode* something to h264 with libx264
<siretart> jtaylor: which seems a terribly strange thing to do in a test
<jtaylor> we can just disable the test, thats not the issue
<jtaylor> the issue is only, are the two packages supposed to be coinstallable or not
<jtaylor> if not, disable the test and be done
<siretart> jtaylor: libavcodec-extra-53 and libavcodec53 both provide an libavcodec shared object. the difference is that -extra links against libx264
<siretart> jtaylor: so these two cannot be installed together
<jtaylor> then extra should provide an own -dev package
<siretart> why? there is no difference in terms of headers
<siretart> that would make two -dev packages with exactly the same content
<jtaylor> how do you then pull libavcodec-extra and the headers?
<jtaylor> you can't because they rre not coinstallable
<siretart> that seems pretty pointless to me, and you still have not really convinced me to change this opinion
<micahg> umm, libavcodec-dev has the proper alternate dependencies
<siretart> see
<jtaylor> alternate dependencies are not used by buildd
<siretart> so?
<micahg> they are in Ubuntu
<siretart> I realyl do not want any packages to build against the -extra variant as a saftey net
<jtaylor> also it doesn't work for me
<jtaylor> if I install the -dev it removes extra
<siretart> and that some strange broken test case might want to encode to h264 does not sound really convincing to me
<micahg> jtaylor: if you use --resolve-alternatives, it should work
<jtaylor> urg I didn't even know that exists ..
 * micahg isn't sure LP's old sbuild will resolve it properly though
<jtaylor> is that an apt-get flag?
<micahg> jtaylor: in Debian, it's policy to not use alternates, in Ubuntu we allow it
<micahg> jtaylor: sbuild
<siretart> no, at sbuild flag, which is not used on the buildds
<siretart> s/at/it is an/
<siretart> so forget about it
<jtaylor> to me this looks wrong
<jtaylor> I can't install both on my system
<siretart> encoding to h264 on the buildds sounds really wrong to me
<jtaylor> forget about the test
<jtaylor> and forget about buildd
<jtaylor> apt-get install libavcodec-dev libavcodec-extra-53
<jtaylor> doesn't work
<micahg> jtaylor: you can't have libavcodec53, libavcodec-extra-53, and libavcodec-dev, but you should be able to do that
<jtaylor> I haven't
<siretart> that's something that i'd be willing to investigate. I think that used to work at some point, but as indicated, I'm not entirely convinced that this was a good idea to allow in the first place
<jtaylor> though its probably avutil as cjwatson mentioned
<micahg> ah, there's a conflict with libavutil-dev
<micahg> we probably have some mismatches that didn't get updated properly since most of the extra packages were removed in Debian
<siretart> can't we just promote x264, xvid and lame to main and get rid of this libav-extra split, please?
<siretart> that would make my life so much easier, and greatly minimize the diff to debian
<micahg> siretart: if there are MIRs and they're not an extra security burden, it would probably be ok
<micahg> but this late in the release cycle it probably won't happen, try for it right when R opens
<siretart> micahg: well, in fact i've tried that before, and it seems that x264 uses gpac, which is a bit hairy for an mir.
<micahg> siretart: hopefully the main/universe split will go away at least for build deps in 13.04 and the problem will be solved as well
<siretart> micahg: that would be really really great and solve exactly this problem
<siretart> micahg: is there a spec about this that I could subscribe to?
<tumbleweed> there was discussion about it at the last UDS, so yes
<micahg> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-r-finish-archive-reorg
<siretart> micahg: excellent, thanks and subscribed
<micahg> siretart: are you coming to UDS?
<siretart> micahg: i'd love, but i won't have time this cycle because I'm finishing my phd thesis. maybe next time, dependending where I end up finding a job
<micahg> ok
 * micahg hopes to start helping more in Debian starting in R
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-30
<dholbach> good morning
<cjwatson> Noskcaj10: I synced felix-latin as you suggested the other day (though it could've waited until T, too)
<Noskcaj10> cjwatson, thanks, and true
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-01
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<lfaraone> ScottK: got a sec to take a look at bug 1206387? We (MIT's Debathena team) would really like to have 1.6.5 backported in an SRU; we're confident it is a safe operation and the new release has been well-tested.
<ubottu> bug 1206387 in openafs (Ubuntu Precise) "openafs-modules-dkms 1.6.1-1+ubuntu0.2: module FTBFS on 3.8.0" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206387
<lfaraone> Cherry-picking has been deemed unfeasible, even by some of our teammembers who cherrypick kernel patches for a living at Ksplice.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-02
<ScottK> lfaraone: Probably not until the weekend at the earliest.
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
 * Rh0nda sighs.
 * Rhonda sigs, too.
<Rhonda> erm, sighs.  All these people complaining about hardy not on pkg.u.c anymore
<Laney> sounds mad
<Laney> link to the EOL notice?
 * Rhonda gets mad at Laney :)
<Laney> don't get mad, get even
<Laney> wait, you'll then switch the link to my email address
<Laney> don't do that :P
<Rhonda> Ha, that's a terrificly great idea! Thanks!
<cjwatson> All those people running critical services on hardy *cough*
<Rhonda> cjwatson: sarge  *cough*
<cjwatson> sarge!  wow
<Rhonda> I hope that system doesn't exist anymore though.
<cjwatson> I mean, it was a great release and all *buffs fingernails* but
<Rhonda> And it was an internal system only.  But it hosted the book keeping software and they didn't dare to upgrade it in case the book keeping software wouldn't work anymore after the upgrade. ;)
 * cjwatson counts on fingers.  oldoldoldoldstable
<Rhonda> I think it had also some great release managers ;)
<cjwatson> obviously modesty forbids
<Rhonda> Ha, I remembered right - *had* to check the website to be completely sure. ;)
<Noskcaj> Does anyone have the time to look at bug 1231400
<ubottu> bug 1231400 in tracker (Ubuntu) "Merge 0.16.2-1 from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231400
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-03
<Noskcaj> did we get a strange spam-bot on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ or is my browser broken?
<Laney> yeah that happens
<Laney> ajmitch: ^^^
<TheLordOfTime> question for the MOTUs, what's the likelihood that a request to add a module to the nginx-naxsi package (to add additional functionality) in Precise would ever get approved?  The module isn't critical to operation and just adds nifty naxsi monitoring stuff.
<TheLordOfTime> trying to get an official "MOTU Opinion" on it, since the "request" came up in a bug
<TheLordOfTime> if an SRU is verification-failed what happens to the package in the -proposed repository?
<TheLordOfTime> does it eventually go away?
<TheLordOfTime> and also, if I prepare a debdiff to fix the package, should I base the fixes off of proposed, and bump from, say, -1ubuntu0.3 (in proposed) to -1ubuntu0.4 (for the new fix), or do i just create another -1ubuntu0.3 debdiff?
<slava> What is the best way to raise awareness of a silly package bug?
<ari-tczew> TheLordOfTime: !sru
<ari-tczew> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<ari-tczew> TheLordOfTime: SRU is generall for bug fixing, no new functions
<TheLordOfTime> ari-tczew: bdmurray beat you to answering all the questions
<TheLordOfTime> well, most of them
<TheLordOfTime> ari-tczew: and yes, i'm aware, general bug fixing, no new functions, hence me wanting to talk to a MOTU...
<ari-tczew> hm, had I lost of internet connection?
<TheLordOfTime> because they can give more specific insights on issues such as this - the code for a module exists in NGINX but isn't "compiled" in 1.1.19...
<TheLordOfTime> the question is whether it should ever be activated based on a "Wishlist" like bug
<TheLordOfTime> but more importantly...
<Unit193> ari-tczew: Crossposting.
<TheLordOfTime> i have to get this more urgent issue with the package fixed/uploading first
<TheLordOfTime> ari-tczew: actually, bdmurray answered the general SRU questions, minus the whole issue of the missing module, in -bugs.  but yes, as Unit said, generally crossposting-ish
<TheLordOfTime> (after non-response here for the longest time)
<ari-tczew> TheLordOfTime: if your bug is fixed in newest ubuntu release, you can request a backport
<TheLordOfTime> ari-tczew: again, spouting stuff i already know that's not helping
<TheLordOfTime> so you can stop, and i'll wait for someone on the MOTU team to respond.
 * TheLordOfTime goes back to poking bugs because they need urgent fixes
<ari-tczew> TheLordOfTime: ouh, of course, I should not speak, sorry
<TheLordOfTime> ari-tczew: sorry if I seem like an ass, but as I just told you in priv, the issue isn't backport-worthy for this case, and one bug's status of existing as a bug is in question
<TheLordOfTime> hence me seeking MOTU guidance on the issue, so i really apologize if i seem hostile, but i'm a tad... swamped is a good word for it
 * TheLordOfTime has 10 nginx bugfixes lined up o.O
<ari-tczew> TheLordOfTime: after given link, I'd follow to answering, but then I saw you've already spoken @ another channel
<TheLordOfTime> ari-tczew: ehhh, there's a lot of crap i've got going on... one's an SRU that needs fixing to remove a FailToInstallAfterPurge issue...
<ari-tczew> so it's not so good to see that for you it's important if person is in MOTU or not
<TheLordOfTime> ari-tczew: i'm swamped, that's the problem
<TheLordOfTime> over-stressed is of course the other issue
<TheLordOfTime> I'm aware what an SRU is, I'm aware what backports are for, but neither seem to fit the issue
<TheLordOfTime> short of someone who can literally overrule anything saying "This isn't going to ever be able to be fixed because it's already a released version of Ubuntu" i've got three people arguing in email saying it should be added/included
<TheLordOfTime> and me saying "I can't make that call."
<TheLordOfTime> on top of that, i've got a bunch of other bugfixes I have to commit... o.o
<TheLordOfTime> so i'm a tad swamped and stressed, so whether I need a MOTU or not, i'm stuck with people arguing with me in email that is adding to the stress
<mike321> hello, is there anyone who can update the package "dooble" ? it is from 2006 version 0.02 and now there is version 1.45 soon 2014. this is 6 years!! http://dooble.sf.net
<TheLordOfTime> ari-tczew: so someone at the top of the food chain who c
<TheLordOfTime> an actually make a decisive call on it is the only real way i can get people to shut up via the emails
<mike321> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dooble The package should have in the end the name " Dooble Web Browser"
<TheLordOfTime> ... stupid computer...
<mike321> the maintainer michal zajc told me to ask here
<mike321> is anyone able to do this?
<mike321> what needs to be done to get this updated?
<mike321> version 0,02 to version 1.45 is more than 80 version updates
<TheLordOfTime> ari-tczew: short of THAT, i'm going to continue to get emails about this, and likely am going to have to drop those people from emails.
<ari-tczew> TheLordOfTime: maybe you should consider to learn handling with your stress?
<TheLordOfTime> ari-tczew: and that's kinda bad form for a pseudo-unofficial maintainer of a package
<TheLordOfTime> //
<lenios> mike321, rebuild the package, test it, and put it on a ppa would be a good start
<mike321> i cannot do this
<lenios> why?
<mike321> never dont hsi, i have not the skill
<Noskcaj> mike321, some time next cycle i'll try and update it. Please file a bug asking for the update
<lenios> debian has dooble 0.7.0 packaged
<mike321> where tol fill the bug ? I tried to do this 2 years ago already
<mike321> that is 002
<mike321> ok 007
<mike321> can you give me your email so that we can talk about it?
<ari-tczew> mike321: on launchpad, against that package
<mike321> i can compile it on windows and give you some help or support maybe
<lenios> the official page of the dooble project says current version is 0.7.0 : http://grothoff.org/christian/doodle/
<lenios> which is from january 2010, and latest svn has no special news after that (only translation fixes, and default verbosity changed)
<mike321> lol, it is not doodle
<mike321> it is dooble
<mike321> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dooble
<lenios> oh wait, how did i end up there
<lenios> i mistyped, i guess, but debian has 0.7.0
<slava> The is a bug filed for ebolution-mapi package which has been marked as incomplete which is inaccurate. In order to properly work with Exchange 2007+, python-samba has to be installed. The bug link is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-mapi/+bug/1165913
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1165913 in evolution-mapi (Ubuntu) "missing required dependency python-samba" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<lenios> oh, got it, that's actually google who gave me the wrong result
<lenios> there is actually no debian package
<lenios> but to repay myself, i can help you package the latest 1.45 version
<mike321> thats good, noskaj will try it too, but help is helpless for me, I cannot do that and will not learn it, it is true.. unfortunately. so my request needs someone caring fro the process
<lenios> i mean, i'll try to build it
<mike321> good
<mike321> i can support you
<mike321> as i did that for windows
<Noskcaj> someone already made the bug at bug 1066504
<ubottu> bug 1066504 in dooble (Ubuntu) "it's now version 1.36" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066504
<lenios> would be good to get it on debian
<lenios> do you know someone who can help sponsor it? that would really help
<lenios> i'm also looking for a sponsor for a phabricator package (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=723804) , with no news...
<ubottu> Debian bug 723804 in sponsorship-requests "RFS: phabricator/0.1~git20130909-1 [ITP]" [Wishlist,Open]
<mike321> the bug was from me years ago
<mike321> i dont know any sponsors
<lenios> i was talking to Noskcaj
<lenios> a new version can be packaged for ubuntu without sponsor
<Noskcaj> lenios, I'm not a debian developer, but i'll see what needs fixing for that to get uploaded
<lfaraone> lenios: I'd be interested in sponsoring to get Phabricator in the archive.
<lenios> that's great
<lfaraone> However, you'd want to use a version like 0~gitNNNNNN-1; what if they make their first release "0.0.1"?
<Noskcaj> lenios, It's probably better to wait for an official tarball to be released, since that should fix a few of the issues. And add adding an empty debian/watch file is pretty simple
<Noskcaj> Normally 0.0~ is used when uploading to debian
<lenios> there are a few warnings i can fix, but it should be ok
<lenios> there is no official tarball, and i don't know when or even if they will release it
<lenios> so we need a way to package it until that happens
<lenios> oh, you mean 0.0 instead of 0.1
<Noskcaj> yeah
<lenios> i'll change that
<lfaraone> lenios: review sent.
<lenios> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-05
<Noskcaj> there's a lot of builds that failed to upload at http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ , can someone take a look?
<cjwatson> Noskcaj: hmm
<cjwatson>   Module lp.archiveuploader.uploadprocessor, line 667, in process
<cjwatson>     [changes_file] = self.locateChangesFiles()
<cjwatson> ValueError: need more than 0 values to unpack
<cjwatson> WTF
<cjwatson> Noskcaj: Oh, OK, this is a consequence of a recent launchpad-buildd regression (my fault), bug 1235038
<ubottu> bug 1235038 in launchpad-buildd "launchpad-buildd treats unknown DEPFAILs as OK" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235038
<cjwatson> Noskcaj: Just ignore them and treat them as if they were "Package is waiting on another package" for now
<Noskcaj> ok, so they should all be ready by release?
<cjwatson> Noskcaj: You misunderstand; those packages won't build either way, it's just the wrong error
<cjwatson> Noskcaj: They're stuck on something else that's unavailable on the architectures in question
<Noskcaj> oh, ok
<smartboyhw> cjwatson, ew, now ardour3 sync causes i386 to FTBFS:(
<cjwatson> (For the most part)
<cjwatson> smartboyhw: Well, you wanted to ram this in late in the cycle ;-)
<smartboyhw> cjwatson, well, I didn't expect that sync which fixes armhf and powerpc FTBFS i386 (only)
<smartboyhw> Should have reverted:(
<smartboyhw> I didn't request it myself
<cjwatson> No need to revert, it's not problematically broken in the release pocket
<smartboyhw> cjwatson, ah yeah:)
<cjwatson> You have time to figure it out properly
<cjwatson> Noskcaj: This will be fixed well before release in time to get all the build states into the correct kind of failure, though
<cjwatson> I expect we'll roll out the fix next week (thereby annoying sysadmins even more, but there)
<Laney> smartboyhw: seems possibly fixed in git, checking
<smartboyhw> Laney, it is possibly fixed
<smartboyhw> I'm just waiting for an actual release from Debian...
<Laney> takes ages to build
<smartboyhw> Laney, :(
<lenios> how would you remove the executable-not-elf-or-script lintian warning on a package? i have a lot of png and js files and a few php files with this and i'm not sure of the best way to clean this up
<jtaylor> chmod u-x file
<cjwatson> just -x, u-x is unnecessarily specific
<jtaylor> right
<cjwatson> except in the rather unlikely event that *only* the owner has exec permissions
<jtaylor> muscle memory from chmod u+x :)
<Laney> smartboyhw: it built
<Laney> shall I upload it?
<smartboyhw> Laney, \o/
<smartboyhw> Yes please
<Laney> Build needed 00:44:16, 1345940k disc space
<Laney> come on laptop refresh
<lenios> question would be where to do the -x
<cjwatson> probably immediately after the upstream make install
<cjwatson> e.g. perhaps in a dh_auto_install override
<cjwatson> (in debian/rules)
<lenios> what about overriding dh_fixperms?
<cjwatson> I wouldn't; it's probably not the thing that's wrong
<cjwatson> alternative: add a patch to the upstream build system to fix their foolish code installing it with exec perms
<smartboyhw> Laney, you're uploading it through Debian or Ubuntu?
<Laney> U
<lenios> i can't control the upstream build system, but i can try to submit them a patch
<Laney> I'm guessing the maintainer will upload it to Debian soon enough
<smartboyhw> Laney, agreed
<cjwatson> I mean, you obviously *can* override dh_fixperms for it, I just think it's no more sensible a place than e.g. overriding dh_installman
<cjwatson> lenios: eh, you can surely patch it in your package
<cjwatson> it might not be the easiest way, depending on the situation, but I've done that in the past
<lenios> oh yes, i can patch it
<lenios> that will need to be redone on each new package, but still
<cjwatson> rebasing patches isn't normally that hard
<cjwatson> like I say, not necessarily the best way depending on your situation, but it's an option.  if you do it in debian/rules I would recommend it be somewhere immediately after and clearly associated with the buggy upstream installation code (if indeed that's where the bug is)
<smartboyhw> Laney, thank you, now all architectures build and is now in -release.
<Laney> happy days
<smartboyhw> Laney, I need a FFe for the ardour3 inclusion in ubuntustudio-meta right?
<Laney> Not sure
<Laney> probably OK if the flavour developers want it
<Laney> Got to go now
<smartboyhw> Laney, ouch
<smartboyhw> Just want you to ack the bug-.-
<lenios> i asked upstream about the executable-not-elf-or-script warning, and they fixed it with a commit and now no more warnings :)
<lenios> https://mentors.debian.net/package/phabricator if someone is interested in sponsoring it
<smartboyhw> lenios, ask in #debian-mentors on OFTC:P
<lenios> that would be a good idea :p
<jokerdino> any sponsors around? need to upload a bug fix for unity-tweak-tool
<chilicuil> hello, I'm interested in getting a new package for ubuntu saucy (probably by now too late?), I've gone through debian (mentors) and created the package, now I think is ready, however a week has gone and no one with permition to debian have look at it, I wonder if some one here can do it, and approve it or reject it, http://mentors.debian.net/package/youtube-cli / http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2013/09/msg00299.html
<solirc> Hi!
<solirc> I'm just getting started with PPAs and UDD.
<solirc> And I manage to upload a custom version of ghc.
<solirc> Not I'd like to do the same thing for cabal-install, but `bzr branch ubuntu:cabal-install` fails with
<solirc> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/cabal-install/".
<solirc> s/Not/Now
<solirc> Ah, it is `bzr branch ubuntu:haskell-cabal-install`
<solirc> even though the package is named `cabal-install`
 * solirc looks entirely puzzled
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-06
<maxb> solirc: The *source* package is named haskell-cabal-install, the *binary* package is named cabal-install
<maxb> I'm not sure what the specific reason might be in this case, but in general source packages each generate one or more binary packages, and names can be different
<solirc> maxb: ok, thanks for the explanation
<tumbleweed> solirc: $ apt-cache show cabal-install | head -2
<tumbleweed> Package: cabal-install
<tumbleweed> Source: haskell-cabal-install
<tumbleweed> the binary cabal-install package comes from the haskell-cabal-install source package
<solirc> tumbleweed: That is interesting!
<solirc> I was under the impression that `aptitude show` is functionally equivalent to `apt-cache show`.
<tumbleweed> it is
<solirc> well, today I learned it's not
<tumbleweed> ok, yes, slightly less information
<solirc> e.g. it does not include the "Source: .." for me
<solirc> :)
<solirc> I somehow switched to use aptitude for everything a couple of year ago
<solirc> but maybe I'll go back
<solirc> tumbleweed: Thanks a lot for pointing this out.  Very useful! :)
#ubuntu-motu 2014-09-29
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> bluesabre: Just reviewed gmusicbrowser - it's conventional to give -v<last version in Ubuntu> to dpkg-buildpackage/debuild when building source packages for merges
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/New#Uploading_a_merge
<bluesabre> Laney: noted, thanks :)
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-01
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning. How's it going dholbach?
<dholbach> hi iulian
<dholbach> doing well - how about you?
<iulian> dholbach: I'm not too bad, thanks.
<sethj> I saw this bug on Launchpad https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/+bug/1313053 when searching for the Ubuntu packaging guide. Since it doesn't appear to be fixed is there an extra step somewhere I should follow before uploading to a PPA/Launchpad? I was using bzr dh-make, bzr commit, bzr builddeb (in that order).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1313053 in Ubuntu Packaging Guide "missing command to add source/format to bzr" [Low,Triaged]
<sethj> (I had asked in #ubuntu-packaging, but didn't receive a response, someone else suggested I ask here then)
<rbasak> sethj: I've not seen that bug before, and I'm not familiar with the bzr workflow. But, AIUI, the command you want is "bzr add debian/source/format" before you commit.
<rbasak> To make sure that file debian/source/format file is included.
<mitya57> sethj, do you want to fix a bug in ubuntu-packaging-guide?
<mitya57> if yes, then just push your branch as lp:~yourname/ubuntu-packaging-guide/lp1313053 and I'll merge it
<sethj> mitya57, I don't have a local copy of the page, nor the time at this moment, but I could perhaps do it later today (I guess I would just include the command rbasak mentioned before the commit?)
<sethj> rbasak, great thanks, I will try that.
<mitya57> Yes, that would be nice. And create a merge proposal please
<sethj> Great, thanks. I should have time later today.
<sethj> mitya57: I created a merge proposal here: https://code.launchpad.net/~sethj/ubuntu-packaging-guide/lp1313053/+merge/236766
<sethj> If you could look it over, this is the first time I've gone this deep into Launchpad ;p
<AMDPentium> !ops | oops
<ubottu> oops: Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<AMDPentium> !ops | poor genii has no ops
<ubottu> poor genii has no ops: Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<sladen> Ampelbein: ?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-02
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey mitya57 - how are you doing?
<dholbach> mitya57, can we do an upload of ubuntu-packaging-guide?
<Rhonda> Is it to late to get ejabberd and its dependencies synced into unicorn?
<Rhonda> There are new packages along that path. :/
<Rhonda> A fair amount of erlang packages that is.
<debfx> sounds a lot like it's too late
<Rhonda> thought so, but asking is always possible :)
<mitya57> dholbach: I'm good, thanks, and you? How is the developer.u.c migration to Sphinx going? :)
<dholbach> mitya57, I'm working on a prototype - it'd be one possible options
<dholbach> very slowly working on it :)
<mitya57> I think the right person to ask about upload is Andrew
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> will do
<mitya57> Though, if he has no time and is ok with me doing it, I'll do it.
<dholbach> I'll send a mail to the two of you
<mitya57> Thanks!
<mitya57> Do we have any new languages btw?
<dholbach> no, I don't think so
<mitya57> Right, the script agrees with you
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-03
<sethj> Could I get someone to review my (first ever) package here? https://code.launchpad.net/~sethj/+junk/silentcast It's pretty small. The packaging guide suggested I ask here.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-04
<jtaylor> hm I though adt failures of rdepends prevent proposed migration
<jtaylor> or doesn'T that apply to main breaking universe?
<ScottK> That shouldn't make a difference, AIUI.
<ScottK> jtaylor: What's the example?
<jtaylor> scipy
<jtaylor> broken by pillow
<ScottK> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/log/utopic/2014-10-03/13:11:27.log
<ScottK> Definitely looks like scipy results weren't considered in migration.
<ScottK> scipy hadn't been run yet.  It didn't get run until today.
<ScottK> So the question is how come pillow didn't trigger ADT for scipy.
<ScottK> jtaylor: I'd ask pitti that question on Monday.
<jtaylor> it did trigger it and it failed
<jtaylor> or something triggered it at least
<ScottK> According to the ADT hisotry, it triggered on 10/4.
<ScottK> Pillow migrated on 10/3.
<ScottK> So the test run that might have prevented migration never ran..
<ScottK> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/utopic-adt-python-scipy/
<jtaylor> right
<jtaylor> I guess its to slow
<jtaylor> an hour adt test is a little much
#ubuntu-motu 2015-09-28
<dholbach> good morning
<sladen> morning dholbach, did you see the moon with a hole?
<sladen> excellent view from Heidelberg
<dholbach> sladen, I must admit I didn't :)
<ogra_> dholbach, what ?!? you didnt stay up til 4:30am to peek at the moon for 5 min ?
<ogra_> :)
<dholbach> no, not really  :)
<dholbach> how about you?
<ogra_> i'm fine looking at the photos :)
#ubuntu-motu 2015-09-29
<dalguete> hello everyone. Not sure if I'm in the proper channel, but I have a problem trying to build a package in launchpad. I can not get rid of the message "binary build with no binary artifacts found; cannot distribute", and the build fails over and over again. Help or orientation much appreciated
<dalguete> BTW is got this channel by reading the packaging new software info from ubuntu docs
<dalguete> *got to
<dholbach> good morning
<Unit193> Wait, so unseeded things are still a-ok?
#ubuntu-motu 2015-09-30
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-01
<Unit193> Logan: ...Any chance you can slip fonts-hack into wily?  New font package, not in there yet.
<Logan> Unit193: if you ask the release team to provide a feature freeze exception ;)
<Unit193> Dang, thought there was a 'new package' rule.  Thanks.
<Logan> Unit193: yes, there is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#FeatureFreeze_for_new_packages :P
<Unit193> Logan: Figured it was actually something like that, was worth a shot though!
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-02
<dholbach> good morning
<teward> anyone got a solution to a "wrong fs type" sbuild chroot mount error?
<teward> nevermind, i had to rebuild the schroot (somehow it got torpedoed) and that worked
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-03
<jtaylor> anyone else having issues with apt-cacher-ng on 15.10?
<jtaylor> doesn't start and doesn't tell me why :(
#ubuntu-motu 2016-10-04
<b74ck4ng37> Good morning everybody
#ubuntu-motu 2016-10-05
<bluesabre> Hello MOTU! We're seeking sponsorship for updated ubuntu-slideshow-ubuntu package, lp 1629648
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1629648 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Yak art for the Xubuntu slideshow" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629648
#ubuntu-motu 2016-10-09
<ichihara> morning
#ubuntu-motu 2017-10-02
<dibadov> Hi! Can someone advice on what are steps to get software into non-free repo?
<M-lfaraone> dibadov: unless there's a reason it should only be in Ubuntu, submit it to Debian.
<dibadov> M-lfaraone: thanks, will do.
#ubuntu-motu 2017-10-07
<liam-r> Hi All, I'm trying to do a simple fix to get used to the process - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/+bug/1712433
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1712433 in util-linux (Ubuntu) "man page typo" [Low,Triaged]
<liam-r> I've checked upstream and don't see a bug for the issue, should I raise and fix there instead?
<liam-r> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?package=mount
#ubuntu-motu 2017-10-08
<liam-r> Hi all, is there somewhere other than the packaging & compiling forum or reddit to ask for help with a motu patch without annoying people with mailing list spam?
<rbasak> If you're working on something intended to be uploaded to Ubuntu's universe component, here or the ubuntu-motu@ mailing list is absolutely the right place I think.
<liam-r> Thanks rbasak, my problem is that my changes to a package are not being reflected in the .deb. I assume I'm doing something very silly but I can't figure it out. Details are at https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2373652
<rbasak> I'm not particularly familiar with edit-patch.
<rbasak> But it seems incorrect to edit debian/changelog from inside edit-patch.
<rbasak> edit-patch prompts for a changelog change on exit.
<rbasak> Otherwise your debian/changelog change ends up inside the quilt patch, which is wrong and fails to apply.
<rbasak> But, before you go there.
<rbasak> A fix for a typo in a manpage that comes from upstream is in general not appropriate to upload to Ubuntu.
<rbasak> Please send that fix upstream
<liam-r> Sure I do intend to, I just wanted to sort out the process and make sure I could build correctly on something very minor where the actual patch problem wouldn't get in the way
<liam-r> I'll try again this evening without doing the changleog in the tmp, thanks for your help
<liam-r> As far as process is concerned should I also add a patch to the launchpad issue or just mark it as patch sent upstream?
<rbasak> I just tried myself and your steps work as long as you miss out the first "dch -i" call in your steps
<rbasak> Ubuntu developers won't need to see the patch in the Launchpad bug. But it is helpful to others to record what you've done. I would send the patch upstream and link to the upstream submission in the Launchpad bug. Then all the information about what you did, and access to the patch for anyone interested, will all be available.
<rbasak> If the patch were suitable for upload to Ubuntu, then Ubuntu developers would need to see the patch. But usually we want to see where it landed upstream as if upstream have accepted it then taking that exact patch and having reference to it makes life much easier for us. So that's a case where linking to the upstream submission (or preferably VCS commit of it landing) is extremely useful. I'd consider
<rbasak> it part of the process for contributors.
<liam-r> Thanks a million I really appreciate the help. For upstream would the mentioned "submittodebian" script still be the preferred approach?  http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/fixing-a-bug.html
<liam-r> (3.10)
<rbasak> Not in this case.
<rbasak> A manpage typo probably comes all the way upstream, not just from Debian.
<rbasak> See the README file where there are instructions on how to contact the upstream authors
<rbasak> You should also check that the latest upstream tarball (or ideally VCS head if they have one) still contains the typo before contacting them, in case they have already fixed it.
<liam-r> Perfect I'll do that when I'm back at my dev pc. One last question - since this isn't tracked in debian should I also raise an issue there and link to the patch or is that just overkill? I realise this is a very trivial issue I'm just asking for something that might be a bit more invovled  in the future
<rbasak> For this bug, please don't. It just creates work for the maintainer. In the general case, for a bug that might impact users more severely, it's definitely OK to file a bug and providing information on how to fix it (eg. a patch).
<rbasak> It all depends on understanding how much a maintainer would like to know about it, versus the fact that the fix will flow down from upstream eventually anyway.
<liam-r> I understand, thank you so much for your help and patience.
<rbasak> No problem. Welcome to the development community :-)
<liam-r> Thanks :) Heading out irl I'll probably be back to lurk later
<hwpplayer1> Hi Team !
<hwpplayer1> Do you use #ubuntu-science channel ?
<sladen> hwpplayer1: ask the people on the #ubuntu-science channel!
<hwpplayer1> sladen : this is not the way , i am the single person there
<sladen> hwpplayer1: so, I'm not a user of it.  These are specialisms, and a lot of the work is likely to be shared with Debian (Debian-Science), and that may be a good next-port-of-call
<hwpplayer1> Okay
#ubuntu-motu 2018-10-01
<handsome_feng> Hi, Would someone help to upload the theme and wallpapers packages? LP: #1791416 LP: #179709 Thanks in advance!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1791416 in ubuntukylin-wallpapers (Ubuntu) "Please upgrade ubuntukylin-wallpapers to 18.10.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1791416
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 179709 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "i don't listen the audio" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179709
<handsome_feng> Sorry, LP: #1794709
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1794709 in ubuntukylin-theme (Ubuntu) "Please upgrade ubuntukylin-theme to 1.7.9.2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1794709
#ubuntu-motu 2018-10-02
<handsome_feng>  Hi, could someone help to upload the ubuntu kylin packages which have been approved, Thanks a million!! LP: #1792261 LP: #1791416
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792261 in Ubuntu Kylin "[FFe] ukui-greeter" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792261
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1791416 in ubuntukylin-wallpapers (Ubuntu) "Please upgrade ubuntukylin-wallpapers to 18.10.1" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1791416
#ubuntu-motu 2018-10-04
<Rhonda> Unit193: Can you take a look at #1579548 ?  :)
<Rhonda> LP: #1579548
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1579548 in irssi-plugin-otr (Ubuntu) "OTR plugin does not load in Xenial" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579548
<Rhonda> â¦ if you have time that is.  Otherwise I might have to dig into it myself. :)
<Unit193> Huh, never used OTR, so wouldn't know off hand at least.  Note too that Xenial is LTS-1.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-10-05
<woodrowshen> FourDollars: hi
<FourDollars> woodrowshen: hi
<woodrowshen> FourDollars: Do you know how to speed up the sru for universe package?
<FourDollars> woodrowshen: no idea
<woodrowshen> FourDollars: QQ, I want to be a MOTU (æç·´ææ³æç)
<FourDollars> woodrowshen: haha
<woodrowshen> FourDollars: I didn't notice you're off, sorry
<sil2100> woodrowshen: which one? ;)
<sil2100> woodrowshen: we have quite a lot going on with quite a few SRU people away, so things go a bit slower recently
<sil2100> woodrowshen: but if you have an SRU package uploaded to the queue that needs review and you think it should be prioritized, give me a ping
<woodrowshen> sil2100: hi, about ledmon, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ledmon/+bug/1789786
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1789786 in ledmon (Ubuntu) "SRU ledmon into Bionic" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<woodrowshen> sil2100: cyphermox already sponsored, but I don't get WIP after that.
<sil2100> woodrowshen: ok, I can review it in a moment
<woodrowshen> sil2100: great, thanks.
<Rhonda> So â¦ what was it again, recommends from main to universe are fine, or only suggests?
