#ubuntu-meeting 2005-05-17
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:dholbach] : Tue ?? ?? 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Tue 10 May ??:?? UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:dholbach] : Tue ?? ?? 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Tue 10 May 16:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<mako> dholbach: dude
<mako> dholbach: too fast
<^rob> meeting starts here in 40 minutes right?
<dholbach> 1h40m
<hunger> no idea...
<^rob> ahh
<^rob> oky, thx
<Riddell> 19:00, 40 minutes
<fabbione> 1 hour and 40 minutes
<fabbione> 19:00 UTC
<fabbione> we are +2 in EU
<Riddell> oh wait, UK isn't on GMT just now, oops
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Riddell] : Breezy kickoff 19:00 | Tue ?? ?? 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Tue 10 May 16:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Kamion] : Breezy kickoff 19:00 UTC | Tue ?? ?? 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Tue 10 May 16:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<Kamion> (let's be clear)
<dholbach> Kamion: :-)
<^rob> Riddell: it should be NEITHER instead of NOT
<Kamion> "NOT ..., nor ..." is fine
<Kamion> "NEITHER ... nor ..." (no comma) would also be fine
<^rob> Kamion: is that requirement of neitehr with nor an American specific thing?
<Kamion> I don't know. This is the first time I've heard it claimed anywhere.
<Kamion> the two sentences have different emphases
<Kamion> not/nor emphasises the first, and the second is basically a parenthetical comment
<Kamion> neither/nor puts the two on equal footing
<^rob> Kamion: I lean torward "not #ubuntu OR #ubuntu-devel"
<Kamion> that sounds actively wrong to me
<Kamion> "neither #ubuntu NOR #ubuntu-devel"
<Kamion> this is a startlingly OT conversation though ;)
<thegreedyturtle> OT?
<jbailey> How can it be off topic when it's about the /topic?
<thegreedyturtle> ah
<Seveas> lol
<hunger> ^rob: How about: !(#ubuntu-devel || #ubuntu)
<thom> hunger: meaningless to most users
<hunger> ^rob: not #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu looks wrong;-)
<hunger> thom: Right:-)
<hunger> thom: But (not x or y) != not x or y. Well, I am probably too CS-ly for this world.
* fabbione sighs
<nufan> Has the meeting got underway yet?
<fabbione> in 45 minutes
<nufan> UTC == GMT?
<thom> nufan: yes
<nufan> Ta
<fabbione> nufan: more or less yes
<thom> (without pedanting, anyway)
<hunger> nufan: GMT is UTC but with daylight saving or the other way round.
<nufan> Wait, so 19:00 UTC is 20:00 GMT?
<fabbione> no
<fabbione> GMT = UTC
<nufan> (I'm an idiot
<fabbione> there is no daylight saving
<hunger> fabbione: Are you sure?
<thom> hunger: yes
<fabbione> the difference goes at astronomic level
<fabbione> yes
<thom> the difference is between atomic and astronomical time iirc
<hunger> thom: I made that claim the last time... and everybody told me that was wrong.
<Kamion> how bizarre. fabbione and thom are correct, anyway.
<hunger> thom: Looks like I normally hang out with idiots;-)
<nufan> So... the meeting is an hour late
<jbailey> When in doubt, right click your gnome clock, go to preferences, and set "Use UTC" =)
<nufan> 'cos it's 1900 GMT here.
<thom> nufan: no, it's 1820GMT
<thom> 19:20 ~/work/packages/hoary% date -u
<thom> Mon May  9 18:20:19 UTC 2005
<Riddell> nufan: you are more likely to be on BST
<nufan> I'm in England
<Kamion> nufan: then you are on BST, not GMT
<nufan> Whatever the hell that means for the time.
<thom> the UK is gmt/utc +1
<thom> currently
<jbailey> Is Greenwich even on GMT? =)
<Kamion> jbailey: nope
<nufan> That makes no sense.
<thom> jbailey: at the moment, no :-)
<jbailey> Sweet. =)
<Kamion> nufan: surely you must have heard of summer time
<thom> nufan: during the winter, it is. during the summer, we do daylight savings and go forward an hour
<hunger> Arg! Somebody should build a flat planet!
<nufan> Us brits invented time, so we can do whatever the hell we like with it :P
<Riddell> we get so spoilt at being in sync with GMT for half the year we forget we're out of sync the rest of the time
<Riddell> nufan: acutally it was a Scottish Canadian man
<nufan> I know about DST
<nufan> But I assumed britan was on GMT
<Kamion> BST => British Summer Time
<afranke> hi all
<nufan> Hello
<hunger> At least we got the timezone confusion covered before the meeting starts;-)
<nufan> heh
<hunger> So far that was the hot topic for the first 30 min (and min. 60-90) of each IRC meeting I attended.
<afranke> still half an hour to wait, huh ?
<nufan> The wiki agenda is for Tuesday, whats being discussed today?
<Kamion> nufan: breezy kickoff
<nufan> Neato.
<dholbach> nufan: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar
<KaiL> in which channel was that advert? ;)
<dsas> I've just realised the UK isn't running on UTC at the mo :$ whoops
<afranke> :)
<afranke> guess it's UTC+1 ?
<dholbach> no
<Kamion> the UK is on UTC+0100, yes
<WebWiz> starts in 20 min then right?
<WebWiz> either that our i calculated it wrong lol
<Seveas> in the next meeting announcement, please mention date -u
<Seveas> :)\
<afranke> http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?UTC/s/0/java for those who are looking for a UTC timer
<Amaranth> 10 minutes?
<afranke> yeah
<Seveas> encounting...
<dholbach> hey JanC 
<dholbach> jani
<jani> hey dholbach :)
<zul> hey
<Nafallo> hmm, I need more coffein here. :-)
<dholbach> good thinking
* Nafallo left early from frenchclass. Grammar sucks ;-).
<\sh> g'evening gentlemen
<Echylo> hi
<Treenaks> hello
<zul> there is a meeting today?
<Treenaks> in ~6 minutes
* afranke is French and does like French Grammar:)
<thom> zul: breezy kickoff
<afranke> zul stands for ?
* zul should read his email more carefully
<Echylo> as long it is not german grammar, it's allright :p
<afranke> oh ok
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mdz] : Breezy kickoff 19:00 UTC | Tue 17 May 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Tue 10 May 16:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<\sh> i liked french grammar :) easy to accomplish, reading as well easy, but speaking and writing sometimes ;)
<KaiL> Echylo: there is no real German grammar, it's random ;)
<afranke> yeah, German grammar is hard
<Echylo> haha
<\sh> KaiL: hahaha
<thom> good morning mdz
<mdz> morning
<ogra> hey mdz
<mdz> the Breezy kickoff meeting will begin in 2 minutes
<ogra> :)
<afranke> hey
<ajmitch_> morning 
<jbailey> g'm mdz
<\sh> afranke: learn latin and u will your german challenge
<jeroen_> Latin :)
<afranke> I actually learned latin a bit
<Echylo> I did latin for 2 years, didn't helped much
<elmo> mdz: dude, your clock's out again
<afranke> :)
<Echylo> help*
<\sh> Echylo: well...I learned it from my son...after all, it's quite easy ;)
<Echylo> :)
<\sh> Echylo: and after that, I understood some of our stupid german grammar ;)
<Echylo> well it's quite dead, so I don't worry
<jeroen_> not in the courts
<Echylo> and I don't even try to understand german
<\sh> Echylo: it will become famouse again ;) wait until papa was in germany ;)
<Echylo> :)
<\sh> just joking..no offense :)
<mdz> elmo: step time server 82.211.81.145 offset -139.290417 sec
<mvo> morning mdz 
<afranke> mdz: shouldn't you switch Tue 17 and Tue 10 in the chan's topic ?
<mdz> I sync time to my router, whose clock drift is insane
<mdz> afranke: no, CC is tomorrow and TB is one week following
<Treenaks> mdz: oh.. time drift is not /that/ insane? :P
<afranke> yeah but I mean 10 comes before 17
<thom> mdz: i think afranke was suggesting that the CC announce should be first in the topic
<afranke> right thom
<Amaranth> *ding*
<mdz> Treenaks: about 12 seconds/hour
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Kamion] : Breezy kickoff 19:00 UTC || Tue 10 May 16:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tue 17 May 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<mdz> ok, let's get started
<JaneW> mdz: we gonna wait a minute for stragglers?
<JaneW> ok, not
<mdz> JaneW: let's see if anyone's missing
<Echylo> yea, need to get some coke :p
<mdz> I know infinity couldn't make it
<\sh> evening amu :)
<amu> moin
<JaneW> chmj didn;t make it either
<ogra> hey amu
<mdz> if you're an Ubuntu developer, please state that you're present
<jbailey> mdz: here
<ogra> here
* mvo waves
* Treenaks present
<evarlast> hi jammcq, jay wren formerly from OU here :)
<Riddell> present
* pitti waves
<seb128> present
<zul> present
* amu waves
<dholbach> here
<ajmitch_> present
<haggai> here
<thom> here
* seb128 waves too
<jani> hi
* fabbione is here
<lamont> moo
<mdz> fabbione, doko?
<mdz> ah, hi fabbione
<fabbione> mdz :)
<doko> here
<mdz> JaneW: did daniels say whether he would be here?
<Kamion> present
<Amaranth> elmo?
<mdz> elmo is here
<JaneW> mdz: no not specifically
* Nafallo is here :-)
<Kamion> he set his sleep cycle with the intent of being here
<Amaranth> Last I heard from daniels was him going to bed about 6 hours ago.
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: did you make it?
<Kamion> 13:03 < daniels> seb128: in the morning, need to go to bed now for breezy kickoff meeting
<Kamion> (UTC+0100)
<Amaranth> He'll probably show up in the middle.
<mdz> ok, let's get started then
<mdz> the meat of this meeting will be to review the list of Breezy targets, and determine who will work on which features
<mdz> we have a long list, so we won't be able to spend much time on any of them
<Amaranth> where is the list?
<mdz> they're all specified in the UDU wiki if anyone would like to review
<nufan> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals
<mdz> no, that page is not valid
<mdz> (yet)
<nufan> Sorry.
<Amaranth> that's probably what we're adding to here :)
<mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/specs
<mdz> that's the list we'll be working from today
<mdz> infinity: hey, welcome
<Amaranth> wow, you weren't kidding about it being long
<dholbach> mdz: please remove GettingInvolvedInUniverse - it was a hands-on--experience BOF
<thom> mdz: no BluetoothSupport?
<pitti> grrr
<mdz> thom: that must have been missing a tag; I've added it to my local copy
<ajmitch_> Amaranth: it was a busy week
<dholbach> thom, pitti: we had so much fun in the BOF :-)
<seb128> seen, pitti is not happy ;)
<mdz> dholbach: thanks
<thom> mdz: ah, k
<seb128> s/n//
<Kamion> dholbach: remove BreezyGoal from that page, maybe
<mdz> I trimmed the list by hand, but clearly I missed a few non-feature BOFs
<dholbach> will do
<mdz> Kamion: BreezyGoal is meaningless at this point; I'll be going through after the meeting
<Kamion> figured it might be a bit, yeah
<mdz> so, starting from the top
<dholbach> Kamion: done
<mdz> AudioCDBurinng
<mdz> seb128 and ogra worked on this spec
<ogra> yep
<seb128> I've already uploaded serpentine
<mpt> BreezyGoal was on all BoFs by default and people forgot to remove it
<seb128> I'll take care of it
<ogra> and gnomebakert is in already
<ogra> -t
<mdz> ogra: will you follow up on the remainder of the plan?
<ogra> yep
<mdz> great
<mdz> AudioInftrastructure, pitti and fabbione worked on this spec
<mdz> AudioInfrastructure, even
<pitti> we could get into trouble with dmix, but it's worth a try
<fabbione> mdz: yes, i already took some tasks inside it (kernel side)
<fabbione> mdz: but the rest is alsa expert field
<mdz> will you jointly own this project for Breezy?
<pitti> yes
<mdz> or is there anyone else who would like to get involved?
<fabbione> mdz: i will take care of the kernel side...
<pitti> crimsum
<pitti> crimsun, even
<dholbach> crimsun
<mdz> have you talked with him already?
<crimsun> sure thing, I'll look at the url
<crimsun> (sorry, just reattached)
<mdz> I wouldn't want to volunteer him for something without his permission ;-)
<mdz> ok, take a look, we'll move on meanwhile
<mdz> BluetoothSupport
<thom> yep
<mdz> thom and pitti worked on the spec
<fabbione> does it need anything from the kernel side?
* pitti has not a single bt device
<mdz> thom: does it require both of you?
<thom> i'm happy to take this on; i actually have some bluetooth hardware now :-)
<mdz> who would like to help thom with bluetooth?
<Riddell> I'll make sure kbluetooth gets pacakaged, although I don't think it's in the spec
<mdz> especially those of you with appropriate hardware to use for testing
<JaneW> Q: are we make one person primarily responsible or a first and second?
<fabbione> thom: is there anything that needs to be done kernel side?
<thom> fabbione: not that i'm aware of
<fabbione> thom: ok thanks
<mdz> JaneW: generally either one or two people take responsibility, depending on the project
<thom> fabbione: the bluetooth drivers are pretty much complete afaik
<dholbach> i can help testing
<mdz> I expect this will not always be the same set of people who worked on the spec
<abarbaccia> i can help testing as well - i have a bunch of bluetooth hardware
<mdz> JaneW: please make a note of people who volunteer to help with testing and such, even if they can't take responsibility for implementation
<mdz> thom: can you own bluetooth, or do you feel that you need a second?
* \sh could try to contact marcel holtmann, to help out eventually
<\sh> old working buddy
<thom> mdz: i think i can own it
<mdz> thom: ok, for the missing pieces, I'll need for you to create more detailed specs so that we have the option of bounties for them
<thom> mdz: i'll just need lots of testing help; there's an awful lot of hardware to cover
<mdz> BrandingForDerivatives
<thom> mdz: noted
<Kamion> I'm already in progress on the installer side of BFD
<mdz> kamion and pitti were the spec leads
<Kamion> (discussing with upstream; anything I can't do upstream I'll do locally)
<mdz> I'd like for the two of you to stay with this one, since there's a lot of context
<pitti> I can help a bit where possible, but it's mostly installer related
<pitti> of course I'm in
<Kamion> agreed. I'd prefer not to be sucked into the non-installer side though, if possible
<JaneW> mdz: belated, sure
<Kamion> so sounds like a joint project
<jbailey> mdz: I can help look at that too, since I've done some of it once.
<mdz> Edubuntu will be jeff elkner, colin applegate and eric harrison
<pitti> Kamion: okay, then I'm responsible for the non-installer side then
<mdz> I don't think they were able to attend this meeting
<Kamion> pitti: nod
<jammcq> mdz: i've got a SkoleLinux buddy who might like to help with Edubuntu
<mdz> ExpandingUniverse, ogra and dholbach?
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> yes
* ajmitch_ also
<dholbach> already working on it ;-)
<mdz> jammcq: please send contact details to JaneW
<jammcq> k
* \sh looks interessted ;)
<mdz> FormalTestPlans didn't quite make it onto the schedule at UDU
<jbailey> I'm interested in FTP
<Riddell> \sh: lets get you to MOTU first (then we can take over universe)
<mdz> is anyone interested in the development of formal QA test plans for testing Ubuntu?
<mdz> jbailey: ok
<\sh> Riddell: aggreed :)
<ogra> mdz, amu already has some...
<amu> mdz: sounds fine for me 
<dholbach> amu: didn't you have QA test plans?
<dholbach> ah ok :-)
<mdz> amu: ok, thanks
<ajmitch_> dholbach: there was AutomatedTesting as well
<mdz> GraphicalInstaller was a discussion/roadmap BOF
<ogra> amu, i'll be there to help out 
<pitti> mdz: AutomatedTesting sounds like a subset of Formal QA
<Amaranth> Is JaneW the secretary or something? :)
<mdz> pitti: they are related, but FormalTestPlans is about creating documents that the community can use to participate in formal testing
<mdz> pitti: step-by-step test plans
<Kamion> GraphicalInstaller has one piece left in it
<Kamion> namely putting the base system onto the live CD
<mdz> Amaranth: JaneW is the newest member of the Ubuntu team
<jbailey> pitti: FormalTestPlans should include user acceptance testing, and such.
<infinity> mdz : Count me in on FTP with jbailey.
<amu> ogra: ack
<mdz> everyone say hello to JaneW ;-)
<dholbach> JaneW: you rock! :-)
* jbailey hands a drink to JaneW
<pitti> hello JaneW 
<ogra>  hello to JaneW ;-)
* dsas waves at JaneW
* Kamion waves to JaneW
<Amaranth> mdz: Ah. You said to send info to her so I thought she was the meeting secretary. :)
<crimsun> hi again, JaneW :)
<doko> JaneW: hello JaneW 
<infinity> "Good morning, miss W!"
<Nafallo> JaneW: hi there :-)
<fabbione> mdz: not only.. she is also our new kernel name release manager :)
* Amaranth waves
<mdz> she will be helping us from a project management angle
<seb128> hello JaneW 
<ogra> yeah
<ajmitch_> hi JaneW :)
<afranke> hi JaneW
<KaiL> the most mportant with a graphical installer is an easy way to disable it :p
<Amaranth> nogui boot option?
<thom> JaneW: know who we all are yet? ;-)
<Kamion> KaiL: it doesn't sound like you've read the spec at all
<mdz> ogra: are you still interested in working on GraphicalPartitioningTool?
<\sh> KaiL: server install will fit for you ;)
<ogra> mdz, sure
<dholbach> mdz: me too
<mdz> ogra,dholbach: great
<ogra> mdz, but dholbach would be a great addition
<mvo> mdz: if help is needed there, I'm in too
<ajmitch_> I can help there also
<dholbach> woohoo! :-)
* ogra doesnt like c++
<dholbach> the more the merrier :-)
<ajmitch_> ogra: it's good fun ;)
<mdz> LTSPXorgConfiguration is a daniels and jammcq affair
<\sh> ogra: have a look at redhat installer ;)
<TheMuso> mdz: if accessibility is being considered, I can put my hand up to help make sure that happens.
<TheMuso> For the installer.
<mdz> mvo: thanks
<mdz> guys, we're not here to discuss the specs; we can do that on the mailing list and in the wiki
<KaiL> \sh: problem are more laptops, which doesn't like framebuffer and such - but that's OT now
<zul> i can help kernel side if need be
<jbailey> parted is apparently looking for a new upstream, so you might run into issues there.
<mdz> our primary purpose here is to organize who is going to work on which projects
* JaneW says I am concentrating, don;t give me drinks!
<Kamion> TheMuso: best if you work with either me or whoever ends up working on UbuntuExpress for that
<mdz> LanguagePackRoadmap -> pitti?
<pitti> of course
<mdz> pitti: who can work with you on that?
<pitti> with carlos' help
<pitti> for the Rosetta side
<mdz> pitti: I think someone from the distro side should work with you on it, since currently I think you're the only one who is very familiar with the language pack infrastructure
<pitti> amu or Riddell would be nice, too, for the Kubuntu parts
<Riddell> I can do that
<amu> pitti: sure 
<pitti> indeed, someone else should learn that stuff, too
<mdz> JaneW: put Charles down for language packs as well
<JaneW> ok
<mdz> LaunchpadIntegration is next
<pitti> is adi still on board?
<JaneW> pitti: yes
<mdz> JaneW: for all of Breezy?
<JaneW> mdz: I thought so, I heard they wanted to involve her more...
<mdz> ok
<JaneW> I'll check
<mdz> seb128 and daf worked on LaunchpadIntegration
<mdz> seb128: can you handle the Ubuntu side, and we'll get someone from Launchpad also?
<seb128> no pb
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> JaneW: we'll need to requisition a launchpad developer from kiko/stevea
<Nafallo> mdz: I can jump on to the languepacks
<mdz> Nafallo: sure
<pitti> Hey daf
<daf> hi
<seb128> hey daf
<JaneW> did we skip ContentFiltering?
<mdz> NFSRoot is part of EarlyUserspace at this point, right jbailey?
<dholbach> daf: <mdz> seb128 and daf worked on LaunchpadIntegration
<mdz> JaneW: yes, thanks
<daf> dholbach: ah, context, thanks
<jbailey> mdz: Yup, it's a couple add on scripts, and then some fixes to other existing packages.
<fabbione> jbailey: is there anything you need kernel side for it+
<mdz> jbailey: that's yours, then
<jbailey> fabbione: Nothing at all. =)
<mdz> fabbione: nothing we don't have already
<fabbione> jbailey: ok...
<mdz> hmm, except the initramfs infrastructure
<mdz> which needs kernel-package modifications, I assume
<fabbione> mdz: i need to be sure.. i saw around 20 references to the kernel outside the kernel roadmap
<jbailey> Right, those are make-kpkg changes, not actual in-kernel stuff, though.
<fabbione> jbailey: ok, than i am with you on this
<jbailey> 'k
<mdz> Mithrandir: are you here?
<Kamion> has anyone phoned daniels, btw? if not, I can
<mdz> Mithrandir was second on EarlyUserspace, if he can work with jbailey on that, that'd be ideal
<mdz> Kamion: I haven't, and please do
<Nafallo> mdz: he's in oslo. he should try to get internetaccess, but wasn't sure...
<mdz> JaneW: let's check with Tollef when he returns
<jbailey> I chatted with him 45 minutes ago.
<infinity> fabbione : If you need/want help with anything make-kpkg related, let me know... I've been in pretty deep with Manoj many times.
<mdz> jumping back to ContentFiltering...
<fabbione> infinity: thanks, that will be breat
<fabbione> great even
<mdz> JaneW: ContentFiltering is jeff elkner and eric harrison; they aren't here, but it's an Edubuntu supporting feature
<Kamion> answerphone from daniels' mobile
<Seveas> silence..?
<mdz> NetworkMagic -- thom?
<thom> yeppity yep
<daniels> *cough*
<pitti> Hey daniels!
<Amaranth> yay!
<infinity> Morning, sunshine.
<ogra> daniels !
<seb128> hey daniels 
* mvo wave to daniels
<ajmitch_> morning daniels 
<daniels> morning
<JaneW> hi daniels
<daniels> hi all
<mdz> daniels: interested in working with thom on NetworkMagic?
<Kamion> daniels: don't think you've missed anything that belonged to you yet; we're working down http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/specs, currently at NetworkMagic
<ajmitch_> mdz: I'm interested
<Nafallo> thom: I'll help testing on amd64 when you need it :-)
<mdz> ajmitch_: cool
<Seveas> Does networkmagic also cover WPA/802.1X for wireless networks?
<mdz> Seveas: no, that's more of an ISPAuthentication issue
<daniels> mdz: depends on how much it would involve; if ajmitch could better do it, that would work out well
<infinity> mdz : I BoFd NetworkMagic a bit, and some of it runs squarely down my alley.
<Treenaks> mdz: it should be part of NetMagic I guess
<Seveas> mdz, WPA isn;t really an ISP thing
<thom> Nafallo: i'm on amd64, but testing will be good :-)
<Seveas> it really should belong at NetworkMagic
<mdz> infinity: ok, you and ajmitch can work with thom on it
<mdz> Seveas: that BOF was difficult to name; trust me that it fits there ;-)
* infinity hopes there wil be clear and concise notes of everything I volunteer for after the meeting..
<Seveas> ok :)
<Seveas> i'll wait for that one
<mdz> Seveas: it includes network access authentication stuff in general
<lamont> mdz: WirelessNetworkMagic has the WEP/WPA stuff, and exists as a spec of things that NetworkMagic needs to handle
<mdz> WirelessNetworkManagement, you mean?
<thom> yes
<mdz> I don't see WPA mentioned there
<mdz> at any rate, NetworkMagic itself will be complex enough, we can separate off the WPA bits
<mdz> NetworkWideUpdates, specified by mvo and infinity
<mvo> mdz: I can take it
<jbailey> mdz: I had many conversations with mvo and infinity, I'd like to be involved on thatl
<mdz> I'm sure we have a number of folks here who would like to at least participate in testing
<mdz> (if you're among them, speak up)
* ajmitch_ wants to test
<mdz> jbailey: ok, sounds good
<fabbione> i can test i think
<infinity> mdz : I'll stay involved on that one, as well.
<haggai> I'm apt-proxy author and am available if need be
<Nafallo> mdz: I'll test :-)
<mdz> I'm not sure that it needs three people, but we can put all of you down and see how it falls later
<infinity> mdz : <nod>
<fabbione> mdz: i already did something similar in a previous job
<infinity> Easier to kick people off a task than to bring new people in.
<fabbione> mdz: so i can help there
<mdz> fabbione: ok
<mdz> OEMInstaller
<mdz> specified by Kamion and Mithrandir
<JaneW> mdz: I am not clear what I need to check with Tollef...
<JaneW> oh EarlyUserSpace, whether he'll run with it?
<mdz> JaneW: yes
<mdz> JaneW: also OEMInstaller now
<JaneW> mdz: sorry I have horrible lag here suddenly - I'll try to keep up
<mdz> JaneW: we can go over the log afterward if necessary
<Amaranth> we lost thom! :/
<Kamion> it seems practically certain that I'll end up involved in OEMInstaller somehow
<infinity> Kamion : Seems so, yes.
<mdz> Kamion: I should hope so
<ogra> heh
<Nafallo> hehe
<Treenaks> Kamion: doesn't the branding tie into it as well?
<Kamion> I may as well lead it
<infinity> Kamion : If you need more input, it's something I'm quite interested in.
<mdz> Kamion: agreed
<elmo> we should just auto-assign anything matching '.*staller.*' to kamion and move on 
<elmo> ;P
<fabbione> elmo: ehhehe
<Kamion> Treenaks: OEMs might well want that, but I think it's orthogonal to that spec
<ogra> elmo, like "the partitioner ate my disk" ?
<mdz> elmo: we need to distribute the installer experience a bit :-P
<mdz> OpenOfficeLocalisation is next
<Kamion> infinity: yes, please. I don't know how much time Tollef will have early on.
<mdz> specified by doko and carlos
<doko> yes, we should work both on that
<mdz> doko: we definitely want you on this
<mdz> JaneW: need to confirm with Launchpad mgmt regarding carlos
<JaneW> mdz: ok
<mdz> PrintingRoadmap, specified by pitti and daniels
* pitti raises hand
<mdz> (speaking of which, I switched from hpoj to hplip yesterday, and it's 100% better)
<pitti> mdz: then we need you for testing
<infinity> JaneW : Sign me up for OEMInstaller, if you haven't already.
<mdz> I believe daniels has similar hardware, which is one of the reasons he's associated with this topic
<JaneW> infinity: done ;)
<KaiL> printing is something, which might need very much testers..?
<mdz> KaiL: definitely
<pitti> mdz: ah, ok; however, I can do and test the other magic 
<elmo> the lunchpad has a HP now
<elmo> (FWIW)
<Amaranth> I have a lexmark p707 i can be a guinea pig with, if needed.
<infinity> PrintingRoadmap will need lots of testers, not the least of reasons being that most programmer don't own printers. :/
<KaiL> lol
* fabbione can borrow a printer for testing
<mdz> pitti: hplip just needs to be de-rooted, and we should be able to add it to the default install to have all-in-ones Just Work
<Amaranth> I actually had to installed an rpm to make it work, so I'm interested. :)
* ogra has 3 printers around
<mdz> daniels: can you stick with PrintingRoadmap?
<minghua> I've got a HP inkjet (845C I think) and I can help testing if needed
<jbailey> I have a mixed network I can use for windows testing of printing, but that might be more under WindowsInteroperability
<daniels> mdz: sure
<mdz> ok
<infinity> jbailey : I'm just going to steal you wholesale for anything vaguely Win32-related.
<daniels> i'm not entirely convinced I'll get to keep the psc1210 with me when I move out
<mdz> ShtoomVoip, specified by `anthony and thom
<daniels> but I should at least have access to it when I need it
<KaiL> we could use the community for testing here - if any printer needs manual work, this manual work should be automated in the next version
<mdz> `anthony is likely asleep
<jbailey> infinity: Yes, dear.
<Nafallo> canon bjc-600e parallell avalible.
<thom_> quite happy to take shtoom packaging, daf's done most of the hardwork ;-)
<daf> thom: you're welcome :)
<Nafallo> thom: I hope to be able to test bits of that :-).
<daf> thom: I have some FHS compliance work on my todo list
<thom> mdz: the server side stuff will need to drag elmo in, too
<mdz> thom: yes
<elmo> uh, whatnow?
<fabbione> elmo: you get to pay beer to everybody
<pitti> fabbione ++
<thom> elmo: sip servers on our hardware... i mean, what fabio said
<elmo> oh, that, ok
<fabbione> ;)
<elmo> that crack is a breezy goal?
* \sh has ser running and has experience in running and administrating it, I would take it as volunteer work for ubuntu on my todo list .. 
<daf> thom: will you be doing the SER packaging, then?
<thom> elmo: ya
<elmo> score
<mdz> JaneW: in addition to the packaging bits of this, there's a pretty sizeable development project; we need to check with Mark on his plans for that
<Nafallo> thom: asterisk connectivity will be there for me to test, right? :-)
<mdz> ThinClientIntegration will be primarily jammcq and myself
<mdz> though we will need a lot of testers
<JaneW> mdz: ok...
<mdz> JaneW: adi mentioned that she had testing facilities available
<fabbione> mdz: count on me for testing...
<jbailey> I should be marked on there somewhere, since it depends on nfsroot and earlyuserspace.
<mdz> and hopefully jammcq can help get us in contact with testers from the LTSP community
<mdz> jbailey: yes, that's a direct dependency
* jammcq has many many people just begging to test
<mdz> excellent
<mdz> ToggleDesktopModes, specified by jdub and seb128
<seb128> mdz: I've worked on sabayon yesterday and today, package ready
<seb128> mdz: so for me
<dholbach> seb128: woohoo
* Riddell will be doing kiosk mode
<mdz> dholbach: I take that to mean that you'll work with seb128 on it? ;-)
<dholbach> mdz: the GNOME team will :-)
<ogra> hehe
* infinity keeps waiting for each spec to be followed by seb128 saying "I already packaged that"...
<sivang> now here is someone you havn't seen for some time :-)
<seb128> ah ah
<Amaranth> hehe
<mdz> Riddell: let's discuss that sometime soon; I think it overlaps in some places but doesn't provide the same functionality that we originally intended for this feature
<dholbach> infinity: ho wait... that's all ExpandingUniverse, right? :-)
<mdz> JaneW: I know sivang is interested in helping with LaunchpadIntegration
<sivang> JanC: very much :-)
<JaneW> ok, noted
<mdz> ToolchainRoadmap was specified by doko and jbailey, and they are already making progress on it
<jbailey> Ayup
<seb128> mdz: there is no real need to help with the way we have picked (ie: there is not a lot of work), but right 
<mdz> there's a substantial universe component to that, so perhaps dholbach or ogra should be involved
<dholbach> jbailey, doko: when will be the big bang for c++?
<JaneW> could people who I don't know, but are volunteering to help,  please mail me with their real name, nick name  (and e-mail address) to janew@ubuntu.com. thanks.
<ogra> mdz, ok
<dholbach> mdz: absolutely
* fabbione will brb
<mdz> ok, both
<doko> mdz: helping hands for the renaming uploads of library packages would be nice.
<jbailey> JaneW: What % of the distro team does that include?
* jbailey hides.
<Amaranth> JaneW: Volunteering to help or test?
<lamont> jbailey: she has a spreadsheet now, with all of us.
<tseng|work> jbaily: what % is 3 of 16?
<dholbach> doko: i'll mobilize the MOTU side of the force :-)
<Nafallo> JaneW: done
<infinity> doko : I'm in for rapid transition stuff.
<seb128> jbailey: that probably includes me, I never got the mail about the evolution bug I was supposed to get :p
<JaneW> jbailey: watch-it, I studied!
<doko> infinity: fine
<lamont> doko: how much of the rename is scriptable?
<mdz> doko,JaneW: charles can work with doko on ToolchainRoadmap
<trulux> heya
<pitti> Hi trulux 
<trulux> hey pitti 
<dholbach> lamont: don't think it's possible - because of changed and tightened build-depends, or am i wrong, doko?
<trulux> pitti: I came to talk a bit on the new spec.
<pitti> trulux: in #ubuntu-devel please
<dholbach> trulux: we're mostly assigning
<doko> lamont: I don't think much for the libraries. better do these by hand.
<tseng|work> trulux: can you please follow the agenda
<trulux> pitti: before uploading andso on (I got back a partially funcitonal box until I recover the backups from the devel. one)
<lamont> doko: ok
<sivang> hey trulux 
<trulux> hey sivang !
<mdz> UbuntuExpress is primarily my fault, but I don't expect to have the time to be the lead on the implementation (and I don't expect Kamion to either)
<trulux> tseng|work: sure
<Kamion> I imagine both of us will be contributing fairly significantly, but agreed
<JaneW> mdz: time check, we're an hour in now.
<ogra> mdz, i'd like to care for the gui part
<tseng|work> trulux: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/specs, we'll get to you
<mdz> JaneW: kiko mentioned that he had people in Brazil who were very interested in UbuntuExpress, we need to follow up on that
<mdz> JaneW: thanks, I think we'll probably cut it off at 2 hours and defer the rest to mail or a second meeting
<Kamion> whoever takes it up needs to be very conscious of working with people, and not just going it alone (a symptom I've noticed)
<Kamion> since much of the point is to have something well-integrated
<Amaranth> ok, let's start flying :)
<trulux> tseng|work: ok, thanks. I'll get finished the u-h spec soon
<mdz> JaneW: ogra + check-with-kiko's-people on UbuntuExpress
<ogra> thanks :)
<mdz> JaneW: they'll be working directly with me and Colin to be sure that it follows our intentions
<Kamion> a number of people have expressed interest in a live CD installer at various times, so we should get design stuff out early and often
<Kamion> to bring them in
<mvo> mdz: I would like to be part of it too 
<mdz> mvo: sounds good
<mdz> Kamion: yes, it will need extreme amounts of testing
<mdz> VideoPlaybackRoadmap, specified by seb128 and daniels
<seb128> mdz: I'm handling the gstreamer part, daniels the xine part
<mdz> sounds good
<mdz> JaneW: Charles expressed interest as well
<daniels> yeah, I'm going to be putting a newer xine into universe
<mdz> and of course there will be gobs of testers needed
<JaneW> mdz: ok
<mdz> daniels: and trying to get a stripped-down xine into main, right?
<Nafallo> daniels: great! I'll test it :-).
<mdz> (the goal is to have a reasonable playback engine in main)
<elmo> mdz: reasonable how?
<Amaranth> wouldn't gstreamer cover that?
<tseng|work> a member at the bof thought it was very feasible to rip out patented bits of xine
<elmo> (err, nm, can discuss elsewhere)
<Amaranth> with pitfdll it handles all major formats
<seb128> Amaranth: the spec says we keep both option and pick the best one
<KaiL> tseng|work: and what is left then?
<tseng|work> pitfdll isnt distributable in a working state, no dlls
<tseng|work> KaiL: open formats without ridiculous sync issues in gst?
<mdz> ok, no time to discuss it now, review the spec and take discussion to the mailing list
<tseng|work> anyway, discuss later
<tim1> tseng|work: with gstreamer you can just decide which modules you want to have in main or universe, no hassle with stripped-down versions
<KaiL> tseng|work: problem that around no files are in these open formats :(
<mdz> XRoadmap will be led by daniels
<Nafallo> naturally :-)
<KaiL> so better force the people to install media support later than have something nearly useless as default..
<fabbione> mdz: i will be around as backup
<mdz> fabbione: ok
<daniels> seems pretty sensible, yeah
<fabbione> daniels: start to put everything in arch archives please..
<daniels> mdz: i believe the plan with xine was to strip it down in universe and see how feasible it was, and then to later use that to make a decision on gstreamer vs xine
<daniels> fabbione: i'm putting all the smaller packages into bazaar-ng archives as I split them
<fabbione> daniels: ok. 
<mdz> Xen is already being implemented by fabbione
<fabbione> mdz: no, Xen plans have changes
<jbailey> I should probaby be on that, some of the glibc changes affect Xen.
<fabbione> mdz: Mithrandir and smurfix are working on it now
<Amaranth> that's a 2.6.12 feature, isn't it?
<fabbione> Amaranth: no
<dholbach> there was somebody on the mailing list having success with it
* JaneW puts jbailey's name on everything... ;)
<jbailey> JaneW: Oh please don't... ;)
<ogra> hehe
<afed> is this a meeting
<fabbione> mdz: Mithrandir and smurfix are also evaluating another virtualization implementation that is more portable than xen
<dholbach> afed: yes
<Nafallo> I'm gonna test Xen aswell ;-)
<afed> o
<hunger> fabbione: Which one?
<mdz> JaneW: ok, need to follow up with Mithrandir and smurfix and see where that's going
<fabbione> mdz: my side i will be available when it is time to merge into the main kernel as we agreed during the BoF
<sivang> mdz: do we support pSeries hypervisor virtualization like redhat and suse does? (i.e. all it takes is a patched kernel for virutal hardware and hypervisor connectivity)
<fabbione> hunger: it's not publically available yet.
<mdz> sivang: we haven't looked at it yet; I didn't realize the software was free
<sivang> fabbione: I have access to the hardware, would love to test a such when/if realized
<sivang> mdz: ah ok, if I have further details, I'll email -devel
<mdz> sivang: thans
<fabbione> sivang: you want to talk with Mith and smurfix
<mdz> thanks
<sivang> fabbione: k
<mdz> LaptopMission is missing from the high priority list
<mdz> JaneW: that'll be largely mjg59
<Seveas> between video and xen i missed wirelessnetworkmanagement and xroadmap
<mdz> thom: can you back up mjg59 on that?
<mdz> Seveas: we discussed them
<infinity> What happened to things still marked "NeedsPriority"?
<infinity> (specifically thinking of ServerTeam)
<mdz> infinity: things still marked NeedsPriority need to be revisited at a later time
<JaneW> infinity: in most cases they were left off
<infinity> Fair nuff.
<mdz> if they weren't obviously HighPriority, they haven't made it into the list yet
<blk> is there someone discussing the point "init" tomorrow? (i'm esp. interested if initng is part of the topic)
<JaneW> infinity: cvd and I gave some of them a default medium status, but that started confusing things, so we stopped
<dholbach> blk: the meeting is right now
<mdz> that covers the high-priority tasks pretty well
<mdz> let's get through as many medium-priority tasks as we can in the next 45m
<Kamion> blk: unless it was one of the things we sat down and specified/designed at UDU, it isn't being discussed here
<mdz> AutomatedProblemReports
<JaneW> ok, there were 3 discussed that weren't on my list
<mpt> blk: FasterBoot is marked as LowPriority, so we probably won't get to it in this meeting
<pitti> that covers half of the world, but I'll see how far we will come with that; however, stripping debug symbols and basic crash reporting should be feasible for breezy
<mdz> (pitti and mvo)
<blk> ok, sorry for interrupting
<pitti> mdz: I'm in of course
* pitti looks forward to do yet another strip session on the buildds
<mdz> pitti: yes, but be sure that you can balance the load with others, since you have some high-priority tasks already
* lamont reminds pitti that he gets to actually design something to deliver extra files this time
<pitti> mvo ?
<mvo> mdz: I'm not too keen on it to be honest, but I can help (and I already put some work in the spec)
* JaneW thinks lamont needs some work for the next few days...
<pitti> mvo: we need you for event-notifier
* mvo runs
<mdz> is there anyone other than pitti and mvo who is interested in automated problem reports?
<lamont> JaneW: given that it's a hack anyway you go at it, I'd rather have someone else screamed at... :)
* ogra is just interested to get hwdb data in there
<mdz> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedProblemReports
<jbailey> mdz: I have some exposure from the bugzilla/bug-buddy hacking as well as support stuff.
<jbailey> mdz: Getting crunchy for available time, though.
* sivang_away wonders about event-notifier and griefs the process of trying to track UDU over the web :-)
<seb128> mdz: I'm interested by the debug stuff
<pitti> sivang_away: it doesn't exist yet
<pitti> yeah, we need a pygtk hacker for a frontend
* Amaranth looks up
<mdz> seb128,jbailey: I'd appreciate your involvement, of course, but I think we need someone who can dedicate a lot of their time to it
<Amaranth> frontend for what?
<pitti> problem reports
<mdz> fabbione: are you interestede in APR at all?
<pitti> I have a basic prototype, but not very nice
<fabbione> mdz: nope...
<KaiL> the only working frontend is IRC, or? :)
<ogra> pitti, i can help you with that
<pitti> fabbione: it involves kernel panic reports :-)
<mpt> pitti: You need design work?
<mdz> infinity: or you?
<fabbione> pitti: fix your hardware :)
<pitti> mpt: probably a bit, yes
<pitti> fabbione: fix your kernel crashes
<sivang_away> fabbione: lol
<Amaranth> that reminds me, anything with a user interface should have mpt autoassigned to it ;)
<thom_> argh, can we not call it APR please ;-)
<infinity> mdz : I can hack on the guts, but the frontend probably needs someone more gui-oriented. :)
* mpt ducks
<mdz> infinity: the guts need the most attention
<infinity> mdz : Fair enough.  Sign me up, then.
<mdz> JaneW: we'll need to make some extra passes over this list when it's said and done, to make sure the workload is balanced
<Amaranth> next topic?
<mpt> pitti: You have my e-mail address?
<mdz> JaneW: so include everyone who expressed interest in AutomatedProblemReports, and we'll revisit it at that stage
<mdz> CalendaringSynchronisation is next
<JaneW> ok
<mdz> Mithrandir and jbailey worked on the spec
<jbailey> mdz: The deal with CalendaringSynch was basically finish up some stuff in evo, and then wait until upstreams catch up.
<jbailey> mdz: Might be best to just defer it.
<mdz> there doesn't seem to be much meat here
<jbailey> mdz: Otherwise it's potentially a large development effort.
<Nafallo> bounty?
<mdz> jbailey: we'll want to create more detailed specs for the pieces which are missing, as candidates for bounty projects
<jbailey> mdz: 'k
<mdz> jbailey: can you take on the specification piece?
<jbailey> Yes.
<mdz> great
<mdz> ClusterFilesystems - fabbione?
<fabbione> clusterfs is jdub and mine. i think we already splitted the tasks
<fabbione> i am almost done with the packaging. i need to review some bits tho
<fabbione> mdz: i would appreciate some people to help with testing
<fabbione> (that means at least 2 spare machines available)
* Nafallo can't :-(
<mdz> anyone here interested in clusters?
<amu> fabbione: count me as a tester 
<fabbione> amu: great..
<mdz> especially if you happen to have a cluster available ;-)
<fabbione> mdz: ehhehe
<ogra> hehe
<pitti> fabbione: interested in testing
<Nafallo> mdz: interest is here, but I lack hardware :-/.
<fabbione> also mixed hw is good
<pitti> fabbione: if 4 computers count as a minicluster, that is
<fabbione> there is no need to have only i386
<ogra> fabbione, add me to the testers list
<lamont> fabbione: I could almost certainly get involved in the testing
<mdz> ok, FasterNetworkedX...is there something we can actually do here?
<infinity> pitti : Anything over 1 can be a cluster, for the purpose of testing.
<fabbione> JaneW: are you taking notes? ;)
<fabbione> thanks guys
<mdz> daniels: ?
<jammcq> isn't that integrating NX/FreeNX?
<mdz> yes, though the spec says disparaging things about it
<JaneW> fabbione: trying too, though I think I am going to have fun re-reading all this for the bits I've missed
<Riddell> put NX into universe, it's often requested
<Riddell> I can do look into it
<ogra> mdz, Mithrandirs already works on something.... iirc
<mdz> ok, daniels should be involved, Mithrandir has already done some work, and jammcq is interested
<mdz> and Riddell
<mdz> I think it is a one-person task, but we need to do some followup to see what has been done already among that group
<mdz> FileManagerImprovement
<mdz> seb128: is there a clear implementation plan for this?
<seb128> not really
<seb128> half of the point are really upstream code changes
<daniels> mdz: mainly mithrandir; there's arelly not much we can do for FNX
<pitti> push midnight commander into main? /duck
<seb128> I don't feel like doing all of them, maybe we want bounty some stuff?
<mrz123> greetings
<dholbach> bugreport-prioritization-and-boutying
<Seveas> +1 on pittu :)
<seb128> the other part should be fine
<KaiL> pitti: goood idea
<daniels> Riddell: i'd like to see any potential packages before they're put into universe, just as a sanity check
* _mvo_ had network trouble
<Riddell> daniels: yep
<mdz> seb128: we can bounty some of this work if there are sufficiently detailed specs
<seb128> pitti: that's GettingRideOfTheDesktop :p
<seb128> mdz: I'm thinking about the place/bookmark unification between nautilus and the rest of the desktop
<seb128> mdz: I can spec that if we want to bounty it
<mdz> seb128: ok, please do
<KaiL> seb128: that's also "give users a console editor with a normal UI" :)
<mdz> FontHandling
<seb128> k
<Amaranth> seb128: Someone it working on a spec for that, if I understand the mail to d-d-l correctly.
<mdz> mako and jdub worked on the spec
<afed> i'd like to make ubunto closed source so terrorists cant read the source code and use it to make viruses pls
<mdz> neither of them is likely to be able to spend time on implementation, though
<seb128> Amaranth: I've already talked with some upstream about this, cf the gnome wiki
<Amaranth> afed: ...
<mdz> Amaranth: don't feed the troll
<doko> mdz: I'm taking care of OOo2 font side, and prepare a test plan
<mdz> there isn't a clear implementation plan, so let's consider it needs-attention for now
<mdz> doko: though please do carry on with that
<mdz> GdmRoadmap - seb128?
<minghua> I would like to work on Chinese fonts
<mdz> seb128: this sounds like it needs bounty specs
<seb128> mdz: jdub wants to bounty that to Vincent Untz
<seb128> will talk with him at GUADEC probably
<seb128> both of them in fact
<ogra> seb128, that also includes xscreensaver ?
<mdz> there are several different projects here
<seb128> k, I'll talk with jdub to spec that
<afed> sorry for trolling, you guys are obviously too smart for that
<mdz> seb128: panel enhancements, same story?
<seb128> we had no BOF about this afaik
<seb128> and I disagree with half of the stuff on the wiki page
<mpt> seb128: correct
* KaiL votes for removing screensavers, as they are contraproductive in modern computers...:)
<mdz> JaneW: ok, flag it to review please
<Amaranth> but they're fun!
<mdz> GraphicalConfigTools, spec by ogra and seb128
<mpt> seb128: Correct on both counts, even :-)
<ogra> mdz, not really a spec
<mdz> looks like three specs to me
<ogra> mdz, it says we will do feasability studies
<amu> ogra: xDSL ...  
<Nafallo> something to control hdparm would be great.
<mdz> we should definitely do the password changing tool
<mdz> there has also been a lot of demand for a simple service configuration tool
<ogra> mdz, ok, i'll take whats decided there
<mdz> JaneW: ok, ogra will work on it, and/or perhaps bounties
<ogra> mdz, but we didnt spec it to the end...
* Nafallo remembers seeing something with DMA-settings in early hoary?
<ajmitch_> there are other BOFs (SELinux) where we want some graphical config, so I can help
<mdz> ogra: depending on your availability, perhaps you can help with the specs for bounty work
<ogra> sure :)
<thom_> note that there's mention of service restart in networkmagic, too
<ogra> ok
<mdz> Kamion: you've got simpleresize and stage2progress, right?
<thom_> (using a dbus daemon to do restart services)
<ogra> thom_, woah
<ogra> thom_, thats cool
<Kamion> mdz: yes
* afranke checks his watch : 25 minutes left...
<mdz> fabbione: you are second on the InstallerVolumeManagement spec, and Kamion has a heavy load; can you own it?
<ajmitch_> ogra: either that or hack dbus into daemons :)
<thom_> i'm happy to help fabbione on that one
<fabbione> mdz: i can help for sure, the changes are not too difficult
<mdz> ok, great
<ogra> ajmitch_, hmm, touching all daemons ?
<thom_> (InstallerVolumeManagement, that is)
<mdz> IntroDeveloperDocs
<Kamion> the automatic-/boot-outside-LVM thing is the hardest bit I think, but we can talk about that later
<tseng|work> i spec'd that
<ajmitch_> mdz: tseng, and other MOTUs (like myself)
<fabbione> Kamion: yes, we need to coordinate that one properly
<tseng|work> im planning to do most of the writing in the next few weeks and pass to doc team
<mdz> tseng|work,ajmitch_: can you take responsibility for it?
<tseng|work> done.
<ajmitch_> ok
<mdz> ok, great.  please get a name of someone on the doc team who can be responsible for that portion as well
<Burgundavia> I can do it
<tseng|work> we already have jerome and mary
<ajmitch_> thanks Burgundavia :)
<mdz> KubuntuRoadmap - amu and Riddell?
<amu> mdz: ack
<Riddell> sounds like my sort of thing
<KaiL> < kubuntu testing
<KaiL> ..if Riddell  doesn't have me on his ignorelist ;)
<Riddell> KaiL: very welcome :)
<Nafallo> mdz: I'll test the introdevdocs. when I'm MOTU, it worked :-).
* hunger will test kubuntu.
<mdz> LanguageSelector
<Riddell> hunger: cool
<pitti> I'm not really a GUI guy, maybe we have a pygtk hacker around here?
<dholbach> Nafallo: :-)
* seb128 hides
<_mvo_> mdz: I wanted to check if we can use the evo map here
<ajmitch_> pitti: ogra? :)
<mdz> we might be able to borrow jamesh
<pitti> mdz: I'm interested, but I won't really have time for it, I'm afraid
<allee> Riddell: me too
* sivang_away would love to hack lots of pygtk, but works long  hours..:-/
<mdz> pitti: ack
<seb128> _mvo_: pitti thinks than a map is not a good idea IIRC
<Riddell> allee: excellent
<ogra> mdz, ok for me 
<dholbach> evo-map! :-)
<pitti> seb128, _mvo_ : indeed, but we can discuss that later
<_mvo_> mdz: please add me too
<_mvo_> pitti: ok
<seb128> me too
<pitti> yay
<mdz> JaneW: ok, mvo and ogra, with seb128
<seb128> they will just break french if I'm not here
<seb128> knowing these german guys :)
<dholbach> hahahaaa
<\sh> lol
<ogra> heh
<mdz> LanguageSupportPackages
<ajmitch_> seb128: only because noone uses it :)
<pitti> seb128: je suis desolat (or whatever)
* _mvo_ would like to point out that seb128 is half-german anyway :p
<Kamion> (I also think a map is risky conflation of concepts)
<seb128> pitti: dsol ;)
<ogra> heh
* seb128 slaps _mvo_ (people keep saying that!)
<pitti> mdz: that's mainly a community thing
<mdz> we need someone to coordinate it
<\sh> _mvo_: i never saw a full german anyways ;)
<pitti> mdz: mako would rock
<mdz> perhaps mako can do that
<mdz> JaneW: we want mako on that if we can get him
<JaneW> ok
<mdz> LinuxKernelRoadmap - fabbione & co.?
<fabbione> mdz: we need at least one person more
<ogra> zul ?
<fabbione> otherwise we will not manage
<fabbione> ogra: zul is already part of the team
<ogra> ah
<fabbione> one more on top of the actual team
<mdz> who's interested in kernel development?
<infinity> That which does not kill me..
* fabbione knew that the silence would hit the channel
<infinity> mdz : Sign me up.
<mdz> infinity: done
<zul> hmm?
<infinity> fabbione spent half of UDU trying to recruit me anyway.
<fabbione> yeah.. come on.. one more?
<mdz> LiveCDFeatures is a me thing, but I'm unlikely to have time for it
* doko notices silence again
<amu> hmm
<zul> i think we need ppc more as well
<mdz> fabbione: let's do some recruiting on the mailing lists, etc. afterward
<fabbione> mdz: ok we will talk about it later.
<mdz> amu: can you work on it?
<amu> mdz: guess needs some deeper spec
<mdz> fabbione: there is a kernel side to LiveCDFeatures as well (squashfs and unionfs)
<amu> mdz: sure
<mdz> amu: ok, we can talk about the spec
<fabbione> mdz: unionfs is already there for all arches != ppc
<amu> mdz: ok than
<fabbione> mdz: i did that already.. squashfs needs to go in, if unionfs is crap
<mdz> fabbione: squashfs looks like a big win if combined with unionfs
<fabbione> mdz: that was my understanding
<mdz> they are orthogonal
<fabbione> mdz: ok. i will get it in asap
<mdz> anyway, a discussion for later
<fabbione> ok
<zul> i can work on squashfs
<fabbione> zul: go for it.
<zul> it helps with my other interest for later 
<fabbione> ok it's off topic for here
<mdz> LiveCDPrompts doesn't have a proper spec yet
<mdz> but when it does, the implementation will be trivial, and I can do it
<mdz> JaneW: we need to nag smurfix, silbs and sabdfl and get a consensus on whether and how we should change the questions
<JaneW> ok...
<mdz> Mono - tseng & ajmitch?
<ajmitch_> mdz: yes
<tseng|work> yes.
<ajmitch_> and ogra, if he wants
<ogra> mdz, and m
<Kamion> I'll need to be involved with at least merging debian-cd changes in LiveCDPrompt
<tseng|work> we can discuss later
<Kamion> +s
<mdz> Kamion: agreed
<tseng|work> but im all over it
<ogra> mdz, i took the amd64 part for mono since friday
<mdz> NetworkAuthentication (this is NIS, LDAP, etc.) - doko and jammcq worked on the spec
<mdz> doko: can you own it?
<infinity> Any spec that specifically names nscd scares me.
<doko> mdz: yes
<mdz> ok
<infinity> mdz : Sign me up for the Win32 parts of that spec, though.
<mdz> OEMRescue
<mdz> infinity: agreed
<mdz> OEMRescue was spec'd by Kamion and Mithrandir
<mdz> Kamion: can Mithrandir run with it without much interaction from you?
<Kamion> OEMRescue should be the same people as OEMInstaller, at least at first, I think
<Kamion> mdz: yes
<mdz> ok, sounds good
<Kamion> we were on the same page there
<mdz> PDASupport needs love
<Burgundavia> I can do testing
<mdz> I think it needs a more in-depth spec, naming specific devices we will seek to support
<mdz> otherwise it is handwavy
<mdz> specific devices, and specific functionality
<tim1> small question, hope it fits in -devel: am I supposed to use malone or bugzilla to report bugs in breezy right now?
<doko> mdz: OpenOffice2 is missing from the list
<mdz> tim1: wrong channel; we are having a meeting right now
<thom> tim1: wrong channel
<tim1> damn, wrong chan, sorry
<mdz> doko: please add the DistroSpecification tag to it
<mdz> doko: you and dholbach will own it?
<thom> mdz: i'm happy to flesh the spec out for pdasupport and research what's viable; i can't actually drive it since i have no hardware
<dholbach> erm, i don't think i'll have time for OOo
<dholbach> but somebody contacted me already to form an OO.o team
<mdz> who can back up doko on ooo2?
<doko> mdz: I'd like to see haggai there
<mdz> doko: that's not a simple matter; let's discuss it later
<mdz> PackageDependencyManagement - mvo, can you take it?
<mvo> mdz: yep
<mdz> great
<mdz> for PackageSelection, Kamion has done most of the work for the seed change bit already
<mvo> mdz: there are some open issues for the packageing system that I would like to evaluate
<mdz> yes, there is more to discuss there
<mdz> but we will probably not nail it down for Breezy
<mdz> I'll review it
<mvo> mdz: ok, thanks
<mdz> PowerManagementConfiguration ought to be high priority; I'll fix that
<mdz> ogra: can you continue with that?
<ogra> i'll do the gui part, mjg59 the backend
<mdz> sounds good
<ogra> just waiting for new HAL love
<mdz> I think the backend is already there
<KaiL> who doesn the kde frontend for that? kdelaptopdeamon is imho totally useless..
<ogra> yep
<mdz> KaiL: good call
<thom> i'll help on infrastructure/backend for PMC
<daniels> it's an upstream thing, think it's more or less abandoned upstream
<daniels> it's in kdeutils, IIRC
<mdz> who can do a python kde frontend?
<ogra> \sh ?
* \sh is working on it
<KaiL> daniels: no, they only depend on having an akku
<KaiL> so no chance on desktops :(
<\sh> mvo is informed
<mdz> ok
<Riddell> I should be able to (or delegate if not)
<\sh> for python apt ;)
<Echylo> hmm some one is logging this btw? I gtg
<ogra> \sh, thats powermanagement
<mdz> PowerSavingMode is very much Juan's project, and I don't think he's here
<ogra> Echylo, the logbot
<dholbach> Echylo: people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<Echylo> owk thanks :)
<thom> \sh: kde front end to work with hal/similar to gnome-power.sf.net
<\sh> [22:56]  <mdz> who can do a python kde frontend?
<\sh> [22:57]  <ogra> \sh ?
<mdz> ProprietaryDrivers is primarily a community/process issue
<ogra> \sh, yep
<mdz> \sh: I meant that in the context of PowerManagementConfiguration
<\sh> thom: oh...yeah...let me see what i can do...
<dholbach> \sh: for PowerManagement :-)
<ogra> \sh, that was a questionmark
<ogra> ;)
<\sh> mdz: i will volunteer :) 
<\sh> mdz: kde is not the problem ;)
<mdz> JaneW: ProprietaryDrivers already has tasks divided for daniels and jdub
<daniels> mdz: powersavingmode is largely crack
<daniels> i have items out of proprietarydrivers to go talk to upstream
* fabbione goes to fetch some more coffee
<Nafallo> I'd like learning-by-doing on the powerstuff :-)
<afranke> mdz: two hours have gone by
<mdz> ReleaseCycle is mine; Kamion and I worked it out and I need to publish it
<pitti> can we finish the medium tasks?
<\sh> ogra: u are the HAL guru? :)
<mdz> we have only 7 more medium tasks to go
<mdz> let's try to finish
<mdz> ServerInstallation
<sladen> afranke: that's why there's 28 hours in a day!
<ogra> \sh, nah...
<mdz> ServerInstallation doesn't have a spec yet
<afranke> ;)
<mdz> SoundEvents
<ogra> \sh, i just know a bit of it
<infinity> ServerInstallation is all over the place... I think it needs some review/love from thom/me, neither of whom were at the BoF.
<pitti> \sh: I know a bit of it
<mdz> infinity: you and AndyFitz?
<\sh> pitti: ok I will peek and poke you :)
<pitti> \sh: sure, please do
<infinity> mdz : SoundEvents, I'm happy owning the packaging fixes, I /can/ own the sound engineering (I've done enough of it in my time), but it's probably better to not pay a programmer to do that bit. :)
<mdz> infinity: I think Andy can help with that
<thom> mdz: I'll own ServerInstallation to the point of getting a spec, and then lets see from there?
<mdz> if not, it'll be a bounty sort of item
<infinity> mdz : Andy knows nothing of sound engineering, afaict.
<mdz> thom: ok, you and infinity see if you can work out the spec, and we'll go from there
<mdz> ThinClientSecurity I don't think we will have time for in the Breezy cycle
<mdz> jammcq: what do you think?
<infinity> mdz : I'll spec out sound bounties later.
<jammcq> mdz: that's my thoughts too
<mdz> unless someone can own it independently, without it taking resources away from ThinClientIntegration, I think it has to wait
<mdz> ok
<mdz> ThirdPartyVendorSoftware
<jbailey> I'm interested in the LSB side of TPVS, and also because of the support/certification side.
<ogra> jdub
<mdz> doesn't have a spec
<ogra> its jdubs list of companys to contact
<mdz> not a development project, at any rate
<ogra> nope
<mdz> USplash
<mdz> everyone's favorite feature
<daniels> horay!
<mpt> yay
<sladen> mmm
<jbailey> usplash and early userspace are related.
<ogra> heh
<daniels> sladen said he should have finished code by the end of UDU
<JaneW> mdz: must we remove from our list or keep tracking? -TPVS...
<sladen> and bootlogd
<mdz> JaneW: I removed the tag in the wiki
<mdz> JaneW: and removed from my list
<thom> USplash also interacts to some extent with InitProcess
<mdz> daniels,sladen: who is going to own it?
<mdz> can we make it happen this time around?
<sladen> usplash as we need it now is somewhat different to the usplash envisioned 9months ago
<mdz> we need a code drop in breezy _very_ early, or it is not going to happen
<^rob^> heya all, are there logs anywhere for those of us that were busy?
<sladen> I hope so.  users and reviewers are starting to notice the lack of the 'feature' since they can't find much else to fault...
<mdz> ^rob^: we're just finishing up, and yes, in the usual place
<dholbach> ^rob^: people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<^rob^> thanks
<fabbione> they will be updated in 20 minutes
<amu> i'm happy to help with tests
<fabbione> ^rob^: ^^
<daniels> mdz: since someone else is doing the code, me owning it seems a bit perverse, but I'm more than happy to second it
<JaneW> dholbach: I hope it's going to complete the log sometime soon, sitting at 10:19...
<JaneW> fabbione: oic thanks
<fabbione> JaneW: they are updated once every hour, but remember that irc logs can be incomplete if the net is not stable
<JaneW> fabbione: don;t say that - I need them!
<pitti> JaneW: I have a complete log, if necessary
<afranke> JaneW: if needed, I record the session
<thom> i think mdz just dropped off the net, btw
* Simira too
<\sh> JaneW: i have a complete log if u r in need of it :)
<mdz> I'm back
<pitti> ah
<Simira> hehe
<mdz> UniverseSecurity
<pitti> that's an ongoing process. I'll take responsibility for coordination; the real work will be done by astharot, Nafallo, and tseng, I suppose
<ajmitch_> mdz: tseng & myself
<Nafallo> mdz: I'm on it :-)
<mdz> this is a community/team-building exercise, rather than a development project, right?
<pitti> yes
<mdz> ok
<ogra> yup
<mdz> JaneW: we won't track UniverseSecurity as a feature goal
<dholbach> teams++ :-)
<ajmitch_> ongoing, neverending hacking :)
<mdz> the last MediumPriority goal is buntu
<mdz> which is Ubuntu for embedded systems
<ogra> happy tester for ipaq here
<zul> i think i can help if i have the time
<infinity> (It's actually two specs in one)
<mdz> it's a large and multifaceted project which needs a dedicated owner
<fabbione> mdz: we might need a specific kernel flavour for that
<daniels> i believe buntu depends on a chunk of xroadmap
<\sh> .oO(manfred holstein, but he's working for novell right now :()
<mdz> fabbione: possibly, but perhaps not
<ogra> fabbione, and a special bootloader
<infinity> I'm very interested in the teeny-tiny embedded half of the spec, and getting it working on actual embedded CPUs.
<mdz> if no one steps up to fill that role, we probably won't be able to do it for Breezy
<fabbione> mdz: it depends.. we will need to investigate that
<mdz> infinity: can you own it?
<infinity> I'm not sure it's realistic to make that spec a breezy goal.
<zul> er...ill help
<ogra> infinity++
<infinity> mdz : I'll own the second half of the spec.  Find someone else for the first half. :)
<thom> mdz: i think the spec needs a lot more work, tbh
<Nafallo> infinity+
<infinity> mdz : And, what thom said.
<mdz> infinity: the first half belongs somewhere else; buntu has always been about embedded
<jbailey> I'd be interested in helping flush out the spec a bit more and exploring things like using uclibc.
<mdz> infinity: please move that into a separate spec, and start to flesh out the embedded piece
<sladen> every embedded device needs a specific bootloader+hackery+kernel options.  it's probably more about /enabling/ people to do that
<mdz> jbailey: cool
<thom> i'm happy to own it or work with infinity and/or jbailey to fleesh out the spec and drive it
<infinity> thom : I love you.
<ogra> sladen, wise words
<dholbach> oh, how nice :-)
<dholbach> what about FindingPackages? :-)
<infinity> mdz : SO, make that me, thom, and jbailey. :0
<mdz> infinity: let's get some specific use cases into it, like "I want to run Ubuntu on my Soekris gateway", "I want to run Ubuntu on my Zaurus", etc.
<mdz> and with that, I think we need to adjourn
<mdz> workrave is incredibly upset with me
<pitti> phew
<dholbach> mdz: hahahaha
<dholbach> :-)
<mdz> let's follow up on the list as necessary
<fabbione> mdz: want to change workrave with my wife? :P
<ogra> lol
<Nafallo> fabbione: lol
<ajmitch_> dholbach: FindingPackages - we all know that's mvo :)
<pitti> fabbione: she'll already be asleep, won't she?
<mdz> for those of you who showed up because you were interestetd in an item we didn't have time to discuss, please mail me
<infinity> We need a workrave extension that tells me to "go back to bed, you damned fool".
<mdz> mdz@ubuntu.com
<fabbione> pitti: she is...
<pitti> dholbach: apt-cache search, kthxbye
<pitti> ;)
<Kamion> will we have a followup meeting about the low priority items, or just punt on those?
<mdz> fabbione: does she know you offered her? ;-)
<ogra> heh
<fabbione> ehehe
<ajmitch_> pitti: you're not following the CommandLineDisintegration spec there :)
<mdz> Kamion: I don't want to have to get everyone together at once again; it's a big strain
<mdz> maybe we can break it into chunks and have some smaller meetings
<mdz> we 'll see
* pitti pats his five open console windows
<ogra> fabbione, for a jumping sheep on the desktop
<Kamion> not that I'm incredibly enthusiastic about another marathon meeting, certainly
<mdz> but for now, thanks everyone, and good time-of-day
<\sh> well, last cup of coffee is waiting..
<fabbione> mdz: thanks
<dholbach> mdz: thank you
<mvo> mdz: thanks!
<thom> mdz: thanks
<pitti> good night everyone then, thanks for the meeting
<whiprush> The Fridge is all set, if anyone is asking. :)
<ogra> mdz, thanks :)
<seb128> thanks
<amu> mvo: cheers
<\sh> mdz: thx...good moderating i must say
<pitti> whiprush: can someone please enlight me what the fridge is?
<thom> whiprush: i'll have a cold beer, please
<mvo> amu: :)
<dholbach> thom++ :-)
<seb128> me too!!
<infinity> mdz, JaneW : Will we see some consise notes about how much we signed up for in our moments of madness?
<mvo> beer++
<ajmitch_> whiprush: you've got it all up & running?
<Seveas> pitti, it's where you get beer from :)
* ogra opens a VB now
<whiprush> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/TheFridge
<dholbach> VB!!! :-)
<ogra> yeah
<ajmitch_> ogra: pass one this way :)
<ogra> heh
* thom slays dholbach 
<Nafallo> infinity++
* infinity shakes his head at the VB drinkers..
<pitti> Seveas: I know the English word, but although my fridge certainly has a processor, it certainly doesn't run ubuntu
<\sh> ogra: can u come to kerpen and pass me one pls? ,-)
<dholbach> thom, infinity: come one, it's not that bad, it really isnt
<thom> it really, really is
<Nafallo> pitti: yet ;-)
<ajmitch_> infinity: at least it's not fosters
<ogra> thom, the image or the beer `
<ogra> ?
<infinity> ajmitch_ : Or FourX.
<pitti> Nafallo: I tried to insert the CD, but the drive is apparently broken
<daniels> infinity: 'fourex'
<Nafallo> pitti: hehe, usb? :-)
<thom> ogra: beer
<infinity> daniels : Bah, how can there be an accepted spelling of a pronounciation.  'XXXX' then. :)
<pitti> Nafallo: I have the feeling that my fridge is out of date...
<ogra> heh
<Nafallo> pitti: hehe
<\sh> pitti: well..u forgot to update your CM
<pitti> okay guys, good night and sleep well
<infinity> pitti : 'night.
<dholbach> <- dog walk
<fabbione> night
<daniels> mdz, Kamion: thanks
<seb128> pitti: night :)
<ajmitch_> night pitti 
<fabbione> infinity: /j #ubuntu-kernel
<afranke> night pitti
* infinity debates getting a couple more hours of sleep, or just getting up for good.
<Amaranth> hehe, have any aussies seen the american fosters commercials?
<daniels> infinity: doooooomed (#u-k)
<daniels> Amaranth: no, but I've seen the UK ones
<Amaranth> fosters - australia for beer ;)
* DonVito makes daniels an offer he can't refuse
<infinity> daniels : It could be worse, I could have signed up to join the kernel tea--- oh, fuck.
<Amaranth> err, australian
<KaiL> daniels: you are also the one for XorgAutoconf?
<daniels> KaiL: very much so
<Nafallo> infinity: lol
<daniels> Amaranth: oh yes, I've heard of those.
<nufan> Is the meeeting over then?
<Nafallo> nufan: mais oui :-)
<Amaranth> yeah
<KaiL> I thought about some preconfig for multi-button-mice..
<Amaranth> btw, the MenuEditor spec can be solved by someone putting smeg in universe :)
<Nafallo> KaiL: is there a spec for that? :-)
<afranke> Nafallo: Francais ?
<KaiL> Nafallo: no ;)
<nufan> Is add/remove programs going to become useful in Breezy?
<Nafallo> afranke: suedois :-)
<KaiL> and it's also some dirty hack, as there's no way to detect the button number...
<JaneW> damn lagg
<daniels> KaiL: there's been an open bug for months; please add to that (preferably with patches) if you have anything
<JaneW> I missed the end of the meeting
* dholbach comforts JaneW 
<daniels> KaiL: but questions are a big no-no.  you don't get to ask.
<JaneW> yes I am going to try to tabulate who said they;d do what
<afranke> JaneW: do you wish me to send you the log
<JaneW> yes please
<afranke> okay
<JaneW> I need it because I missed chunks of the live action due to lag
<afranke> guess it's janew@ubuntu.com
<JaneW> followed by firefox crashing
<JaneW> and then open office
<afranke> using Ubuntu ;) ?
<JaneW> something not happy here today
<Nafallo> JaneW: ehm, get an irc-client? ;-)
<JaneW> yes, I changed over recently
<infinity> JaneW : Did you let someone "technical" within 30 feet of your computer recently?
<JaneW> infinity: yes just today as coincidence would have it
<JaneW> *sighe*
<infinity> JaneW : Well, you know who to blame, then.
* Burgundavia observe that JaneW is doomed
<JaneW> but it was Gus!
<afranke> JaneW: log sent :-D
<JaneW> thanks :)
<afranke> your welcome
<Kamion> mdz: hm, we missed MountingHDDFilesystems
<JaneW> afranke: did you send it to janew, the *W* is very important...
<afranke> Kamion: too late, mouahahaAHAHAHA !
* Nafallo has a strong feeling he didn't even see the wireless stuff
<Nafallo> :-/
<afranke> From: Alexandre FRANKE <alexandre.franke@gmail.com>Reply-To: Alexandre FRANKE <alexandre.franke@gmail.com>To: janew@ubuntu.comDate: May 9, 2005 11:25 PMSubject: Meeting log
<Kamion> afranke: erm ... whatever :)
<ajmitch_> Nafallo: I think it was rolled into network magic, rather than mentioned separately
<afranke> Kamion: anyway, seems that mdz has left
<Nafallo> ajmitch_: that's what I thought. and WPA wasn't mentioned cause of ISPAuth not being discussed?
<Kamion> afranke: he's still in this channel, and he generally reads scrollback.
<sladen> Kamion: funkiness to cope with LDM partition tables/mounting/detection should probably go in there as it'll crope up on newer/"enterprise" w2k machines
<Kamion> afranke: I wasn't expecting him to be around right now
<afranke> Kamion: k
<JaneW> afranke: thanks got it
<afranke> de nada
<Kamion> sladen: please elaborate in the outstanding issues section of the spec
<Kamion> ideally with some clues as to how one deals with LDM from Linux
<sladen> Kamion: yeah, the current documentation is somewhat lacking even if the code has been there for last few years
* afranke is starving
<afranke> maybe I should eat someday
<afranke> ;)
<infinity> Alright, well I'm off to go wake up, I guess.  I doubt I can get back to bed, as much as I'd like to. :)
<afranke> bye all, cya soon
<Nafallo> infinity: if you do, you'll dream about the kernel ;-)
<Nafallo> afranke: au revoir :-)
<ggross> bye
* JaneW needs to go to bed
<sivang_away> JaneW: night!
<sivang_away> night all!
<afranke> Nafallo:  la prochaine alors
<ogra> night JaneW 
<JaneW> I'll finish my table tomorrow, and mail/wiki it then
<ajmitch_> night JaneW 
<Nafallo> JaneW, sivang_away: nighie :-)
<infinity> JaneW : Thanks.. Night.
<JaneW> night all
<JaneW> thanks for getting up early Aussie folk...
<Nafallo> hmm, prochaine?
* Nafallo reads french for newbies ;-)
<JanC> "prochaine" meens "next"
<JanC> *means*
<JanC> :)
<Nafallo> JanC: ahh, thanx :-)
* Nafallo is going to go multi-language ;-)
<KaiL> daniels: I've added some first thoughts to that bug
<JanC> Nafallo : like in "la semaine prochaine" = "next week"  :)
<Nafallo> JanC: yepp, grepped that :-)
<JanC> (french is official second language over here)
<Nafallo> JanC: .ca? :-)
<JanC> .be
<JaneW> bon nuit
<JanC> French is either first or second language for people in Belgium
<Nafallo> JaneW: bon nuit Jane :-)
<JanC> it's "bonne nuit"
<JanC> the night is female in French  :)
* Nafallo learns :-)
<JanC> in fact, male/female is my worst problem with French  :)
<JanC> with French language, not with French people  ;-)
<Nafallo> hehe
<\sh> un or une, le or la ;)
<Nafallo> du or de la ;-)
<\sh> du is male ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: oui (de+le) :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: some things i didn't forget ;) 
<\sh> breakfast at the moulin rouge is one of the things ;)
<\sh> and the indian area near gare du nord 
<JanC> I've been in Paris only once, when I was 15 or something like that...
<JanC> (school trip)
* Nafallo seconds that ;-)
<\sh> JanC: i was many times in paris :) and I climbed up the stairs of the tower ;) amazing feeling :)
<JanC> I climbed the tower too
<JanC> we did all the touristic stuff with school
<\sh> but for now....g'night...job's waiting tomorrow morning :) 
<Nafallo> \sh: night :-)
<Nafallo> night all!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:hunger] : Tue 10 May 16:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tue 17 May 20:00 UTC: Tech Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:thom] : Tue 10 May 16:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tue 17 May 20:00 UTC: Tech Board || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<thom> hunger: way to lose half the topic
<hunger> thom: Oh, sorry... that was all my IRC client listed.
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-05-18
<Riddell>  /win 54
<Riddell> hmm
<daniels> kailta
<Cybermagellan> hello all
<Cybermagellan> I thought there was a meeting today
<daniels> there was, 9 hours ago
<Cybermagellan> I hate living in the US sometimes....and working
<daniels> eh, it was 5am in .au time
<Cybermagellan> I am in the US....did anyone take notes and post them somewhere?
<daniels> there are logs at people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<opi> Hi guys
<ogra> hey opi, a bit early today ?
* opi sits and waits for CC :-)
<opi> ogra: I haven't sleep for 30h
<ogra> 2h to go
<opi> ogra: so I want to have a reminder
<ogra> ah
<opi> ogra: I'm kinda dizzy, so XChat will help me to renember :-)
<opi> (this, and coffee)
<ogra> i'll ping you if it starts
<opi> thanks
* opi &
<opi> hi amu
<amu> moin'
<jiyuu0> the meeting is midnight my time here... 
<opi> spooky
<opi> we shouldn't call the ghoust of Windows95 then
<jiyuu0> y that?
<jiyuu0> been so long since i installed win95
<opi> ;-) I guess that's good
<opi> bad memories fades in time
<jiyuu0> classic
<Simira> hehe
<Simira> it's meeting in one hour, isn't it?
<opi> emil@rohan:~ $ uptime
<opi>  17:04:03 up 32 days -- Hoary fits servers, it seems :-)
<jiyuu0> Simira, yes.. 1 more hour
<jiyuu0> what's the agenda?
<opi> checkout Wiki
<jiyuu0> nothing much stated there
<tritium> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<amu> hey opi 
<jiyuu0> just been there
<opi> hi amu, our beloved Kubuntu hacker :-)
<opi> jiyuu0: consider this breezy-cc-kickoff :-)
<amu> kubuntu ? never heard about it ;)
<smurfix> jiyuu0: Three items should be enough, any one of these can easily fill two hours ...
<jiyuu0> ic... 
<jiyuu0> ok... i'll stay and watch
<opi> amu: first phase. denaial. 
<opi> :P
<JaneW> I have to go now, I'll read the meeting logs after, enjoy
<\sh> hey KaiL 
<KaiL> hi \sh 
<amu> moin \sh 
<\sh> hey amu :) 
<siretart> hi folks :)
<PtitOurs> hi
<siretart> the meeting should begin in 2 minutes, right?
<Kamion> siretart: yes
<dholbach> hey
<KaiL> no, in 1 :)
<siretart> great! :)
<siretart> I managed to find some time to attend at least the beginning (about 45min) of this meeting :)
<mako> greetings all
<\sh> hmmm..strange position for me now
<ogra> yay, mako
<mako> let me reorder the agenda
<mako> and get a few things in order first
<afranke> hi all
<mako> note from the last meeting, some stuff for the irc meeting
* pitti waves
<mako> so give me 3-4 minutes
* ogra waves back (andgives mono an additional had sidekick)
<ogra> hard even
<ogra> hey sabdfl 
<sabdfl> hi all
<pitti> hey sabdfl 
<whiprush> hey everyone
<sabdfl> mako's just going to get this a little organised then give us the signal to start
<\sh> take time..my back is paining and now i'm laying with my laptop on my hips...bad for my neck :(
* afranke waves
<dholbach> hey sabdfl, hey whiprush 
<opi> re
<opi> ufff
<opi> I made it
<ogra> opi, ping ;)
<opi> ogra, :-)
<opi> ogra, I had to go back to the office, because I toke the a CD someone else wanted. Had to run to the tramp.
<sabdfl> everybody recovered from the UduFlu?
<mdz> I dodged that bullet
* ogra had no flu :)
* whiprush shakes fist at sladen 
<pitti> I had already a cold when I came to Sydney, I didn't want another one :-)
<opi> I wasn't there ;-)
<Alessio> i''m here
<mako> alright everyone
<mako> elmo, Kamion, sabdfl: around?
<mdz> sabdfl is here
<sabdfl> yup
<Kamion> here
<elmo> yah
<mako> killer
<mako> there was a request to handle the new members first
<mako> i don't see a problem with that
<sabdfl> go ahead
<mako> many of these people showed up at the last meeting, where i was the only cc member so couldn't approve them
<mako> so they may or may not be here this time
<mako> that can be noted as we go through the list
<mako> let's work down the list
<mako> JohnnyMast, you around?
<sabdfl> maybe we should start by asking folks who are here, who are on the list, to say aye (and give their full names)
<ogra> good idea
* siretart is here, Realname: ReinhardTartler
<tritium> aye, Michael Rimbert
* whiprush is here, Jorge Castro
<\sh> aye, Stephan Hermann
<afranke> can you explain briefly what this list is?
* robitaille is here, Realname: DAniel Robitaille
<mako> afranke: it's http://www.ubuntu.com/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mdz> afranke: people applying for Ubuntu membership
<afranke> k thx
<mako> afranke: people who want to become ubuntu members
<pitti> astharot: Gerardo di Giacomo, please ping
<astharot> ping :)
<mako> alright, good to know
<mako> it still makes sense to go through the list
<mako> i think
<Alessio> when we start?
<mako> Alessio: we've started
<Alessio> ops
<Kamion> Alessio: see scrollback
<mako> johnny mast? around?
<Alessio> sorry
<mako> for the record, i think johnny needs to document his work on ubuntu, it's absolutely unclear from the page
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> i make it 7 fols here
<mako> 7 fols?
<opi> ;-)
<dholbach> folks?
<Seveas> or fools :)
<\sh> freud? ,-)
<siretart> lol
<ogra> heh
<sabdfl> erk
<Kamion> I don't see any work on Ubuntu from Johnny, having followed up the links
<mako> sabdfl: right, plus a few who were here for the last meeting
<rave> here i am
<Kamion> so we should probably ask him to come back when that's clarified
<sabdfl> let's start with the guys who are here now, then the fol(k)s who were here last time
<rave> ask me now
<sabdfl> rave: your name?
<Kamion> rave: 17:10 < mako> for the record, i think johnny needs to document his work on ubuntu, it's absolutely unclear from the page
<dholbach> rave is Johnny Mast
<rave> Johnny :)
<sabdfl> ok, let's start there
<rave> well yes, thats true
<sabdfl> rave: in considering you for membership we need some idea of the contribution you have made and your plans for Ubuntu
<sabdfl> thats not clear from your page
<mdke> is it too late to add names to the list?
<mako> yeah, it doesn't mean you haven't been a helpful member of the community.. it just means we can't see it :)
<sabdfl> would you update your page and come back in two weeks?
<rave> hmm for sure, i just created the page as a quick impression
<rave> with some links to my code and work
<mako> rave: yeah, we need a little more before we grant membership
<sabdfl> rave: membership covers *any* field of contribution, but it needs to be a fairly substantial chunk of work done and planned
<mako> rave: in particular, your code and work on ubuntu
<Kamion> might want to stick around and see what other folks who get approved have provided, as a guideline?
<sabdfl> not just code though - support, bugs, docs, artwork
<rave> well im coding 12 hours aday
<sabdfl> ok, so focus there :-)
<sabdfl> let's go on. siretart?
<thegreedyturtle> as someone who's interested in becoming a memeber, what level of contributing do you look for in members?
<sabdfl> ReinhardTartler
<siretart> sabdfl: sure. im here :)
<rave> :), i help ppl out in #ubuntu-nl (i try)
<opi> rave, just write a good resume, and I'm sure CC will aprove you :-)
<mako> sabdfl: lets come back to chris schieb after.. he was at the last meeting
<ogra> sabdfl, siretart did a good bunch of motu work already
<dholbach> siretart:  did ROCKing work in the MOTU transitions :-)
<sabdfl> thegreedyturtle: "any substantial contribution and a manifesto describing vision for ubuntu going forward"
<rave> tankz opi 
<thegreedyturtle> thanks
<Kamion> thegreedyturtle: the bar for membership isn't all that high compared to maintainership - basically a gut feeling that somebody's being useful in the specific context of Ubuntu (in addition to e.g. code written elsewhere)
<mako> sabdfl: we should go through the full list this time because there are people that are not here this time that did come to a CC meeting at a different time
<siretart> I intend to get my touched packages in hoary in shape for breezy, plus the packages I maintain in debian (2 at this time). 
* mako is familiar with siretart's work
<siretart> In addition to that, I intend concentrate on the game related packages in universe
<sabdfl> mako: let's start with the present people, then cover everyone else
<dholbach> the GamesTeam! REJOICE!
<ogra> yay
<siretart> :)
<sabdfl> siretart: thank you for your coding time! any other areas you have an interest in?
<siretart> sabdfl: my personal interests are networking, network security and administration, since I admin a small internet cafe
<siretart> http://chummers.net
<dholbach> siretart: you never told us :-)
<siretart> oh, how could I forget that ;)
<ogra> btw, 7 uploads to hoary-changes from siretart looks like a reasonable contribution
<mako> sounds great
<sabdfl> kamion, mako?
<Kamion> siretart's wiki page seems reasonable to me having followed up links, I'd ack
<sabdfl> looks good to me, so that's a majority in the CC, counting mako
* mako throws in his chip for siretart 
<siretart> Yippie! :)
<sabdfl> any objectsions, privmsg me :-)
* ogra applauds siretart 
<sabdfl> none. ok, welcome aboard siretart
<opi>  /m sabdfl no! no! no! ;-)
<siretart> thanks all :)
<\sh> grats siretart 
<mako> Alessio: is here
<sabdfl> mako, want to cover him next? nick?
<Alessio> ya
<mako> i dont think trulux is here. so alessio is next
<diamond> hey folks. sorry for being late. didn't think i'd make this one at all, only put my name back in coz mako's mail said... etc
<mako> Alessio has been active in the italian loco team.
<sabdfl> Alessio: how would you describe the current status on the italian Loco team?
<Alessio> my status?
<Kamion> I have to admit to not being able to understand most of the links, but since a lot of them are translations that's probably a good thing :-)
<Alessio> i'm ubuntitalia.org webmaster
<Kamion> Alessio: Mark's also asking for how the team as a whole is getting on, I think
<Alessio> and i have translate howto on wiki
<mako> we all know there were issues in teh past
<sabdfl> Alessio: how is the italian team coming together?
<Alessio> i think that the team works
<Alessio> the docs grows up
<sabdfl> ok. is there a coordinated ubuntu translation team for italian yet?
<Alessio> yes
* mdke nods
<sabdfl> who's involved there?
<Alessio> mdke is the coordinator
<sabdfl> cool! are you guys using rosetta at all?
<Alessio> yes
<mdke> yes
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> Alessio: plans for future contribution? where would you like to see Ubuntu get to?
<sabdfl> maybe we should ask everyone else here who is on the list to think up a few sentences describing their contribution, and plans going forward
<Alessio> future for me is: help italian people to meet Ubuntu :)
<mako> advocacy is important
<sabdfl> do you guys hold regular advocacy meetings?
<coastGNU> Alessio: Any plans for local team meetings and workshops?
<Alessio> yes
<Alessio> now is only a plan
<mako> Alessio: where in particular are you?
<Alessio> in italy?
<mako> well, meetings can be come impracticle with a team as big as an italian team
<Alessio> nera rimini/riccione
<Alessio> *near
<mako> cool
<Alessio> ;)
<mako> FWIW, alessio asked me and i told him to apply for membreship
<mako> alessio and i have been in touch on a number of different things related to advocacy, translation, and ubuntu in italy for the last couple months
<mako> and i'll be happy to see him as a member
<Kamion> ok, fine by me
<sabdfl> ok, me too
<sabdfl> welcome aboard
<mako> Alessio: welcome
<sabdfl> who's next!
<Alessio> thanks you ;)
<\sh> Alessio: congrats :)
<trulux> hi fellows
<sabdfl> hey trulux
<Alessio> thank you
<sabdfl> whiprush?
<whiprush> I'm here.
<trulux> hey sabdfl 
<jiyuu0> just read this... no wonder backports is so slow
<jiyuu0> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=33307
<mako> for the record, alessio said he had to go at 1630UTC :)
<trulux> pitti: going to push a lot of stuff to the CVS, tomorrow I will get a new TFT monitor, so, I'll be able to test things more quickly
<mako> good timing
<dredg> we dare not speak of them by name. b*ckp*rts.
<mdke> eugh
<opi> dredg, f*k*p*ts
<sabdfl> let's get to whiprush next
<ogra> TheFridge !!
<dholbach> yes :-)
<dredg> crackports is also acceptable
<whiprush> I think I met everyone at UDU.
<Kamion> can somebody explain what TheFridge actually is? :-) jdub was very evasive
<sabdfl> whiprush: thanks for making a solid contribution in sydney
<whiprush> thanks for having me. :)
<mako> Kamion: it's EVERYTHING
<Kamion> ah, I see the udu.wiki web page is more useful now
<ogra> Kamion, something you can pin your notes on with little magnets :)
<mako> Kamion: it's a portal.. news.ubuntu.com with a goofier name
<Lathiat> ogra: :)
<pitti> mako: live, the universe, and the fridge?
<ogra> yeah
<mako> Kamion: but the name will change if i have anything to do with it.. not to news
<dholbach> ogra: would you pass me another VB? :-)
<ogra> lol
<sabdfl> it's the only piece that didn't fit into the kitchen sink
* robitaille like the name "The Fridge"
<mako> so anywya.. whiprush want to summarize your contributions and where you want to go
* dholbach liked pantsoff.ubuntu.com as well :-)
<whiprush> sure.
<whiprush> currently I haven't done much coding work, though long term plan is to be an MOTU, depending on my work cycles.
<whiprush> My current goal for breezy is the fridge.
<Kamion> so you're mostly in the advocacy camp at the moment?
<whiprush> and having a lab for the ltsp gentlemen to test their stuff for breezy.
<whiprush> yes.
<Kamion> ok, cool
<whiprush> I'm the "local ubuntu guy" at the university.
<Kamion> what's take-up at the uni like?
<sabdfl> whiprush: will you help us coordinate the ubuntu world tour and ubuntu nations?
<whiprush> and there's about 4-5 strong loco guys here in detroit, we meet regularly and teach each other stuff, etc. etc.
<whiprush> yes.
<whiprush> we're kind of a subset of an existing lug so we meet fairly often
<sabdfl> ok. that, and TheFridge, would be a great contribution
<sabdfl> mako, kamion, elmo?
<Kamion> http://ubuntu.secs.oakland.edu/ -> 403 Forbidden, hmm
<whiprush> it doesn't serve anything
<whiprush> that's just the address to the mirror
* opi crashed Ubuntu
<Kamion> ah, I was about to ask you what kind of bandwidth it churns out
<mako> i'm happy with whiprush's contribution as qualification for membershi
<elmo> this is for member? if so, ack
<ogra> and btw, MOTU would be happy to see whiprush joining us :)
<Kamion> but yeah, ack for member, chatting aside
<sabdfl> ok, welcome aboard whiprush!
<dholbach> woohoo!
<mdz> whiprush: congratulations
<whiprush> woo, thanks everyone.
* ogra yays for whiprush 
<pitti> congrats, whiprush 
<sabdfl> next? astharot?
<siretart> whiprush: grats!
<\sh> applause for whiprush
<KaiL> opi: impossible, try memtext ;)
<astharot> I'm here
<pitti> astharot supplies universe security updates at an amazing pace
<sabdfl> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GerardoDiGiacomo
<siretart> well folks, sadly, but I have to leave now :( - see ya soon! bye!
<sabdfl> astharot: is security your main focus and interest?
<dholbach> bye siretart, see you!
<ogra> ciao siretart 
<pitti> and learned a lot
<afranke> bye siretart
<astharot> sabdfl: mainly yes...
<sabdfl> cheers siretart and welcome
<pitti> I'd like to see him as universe security MOTU
<astharot> in this moment, yes :)
<astharot> *at
<elmo> I'm happy to ack him for maintainer, based on ubuntu-security
<ogra> pitti++
<sabdfl> elmo: tell the TB :-)
<Kamion> the wiki page doesn't go much into Ubuntu specifics, but I'm certainly happy with pitti's recommendation; ack for member
<sabdfl> astharot: what's zone-h all about?
<mako> i'm not hugely familiar to his work but am happy to go off of his recommendations so far
<astharot> sabdfl: what do you want to know about zone-h ?
<Kamion> since we massively need universe security :-)
<mako> membership++
<ogra> Kamion+++
<sabdfl> astharot: nothing
<astharot> mako: check security-review archives... you'll find some security patches
* mako nods
<sabdfl> ok, i'm happy on the membership front too - which is mako, kamion, elmo, me, a full house
<mako> astharot: welcome
<sabdfl> welcome aboard astharot!
<astharot> thanks a lot guys ;)
<ogra> yeah
<dholbach> :-)
<whiprush> yay!
<sabdfl> astharot: i'm interested to hear about zone-h so please privmsg me about it
* pitti gives astharot high five
<Lathiat> keep it up astharot :)
<mako> alright
<sabdfl> also, keen to hear if you think we should organise a full security audit of parts of universe
<astharot> sabdfl: now?
<Kamion> mm, ok, security-reviews@ is full of detail :-)
<sabdfl> astharot: whenever suits you
<sabdfl> next!
<mako> robitaille: hey dude
<mako> robitaille: you're up
<robitaille> I'm here
<mako> robitaille: want to give us the 2 setance version of your contributions so far
<sabdfl> robitaille: first class web page - thank you!
<robitaille> I have a background in system admin, and as such I have been trying to provide
<ogra> bus loads of bugs and fixes ;)
<sabdfl> it very clearly states the work you've been involved in and makes it easy for us to form an opinion
<robitaille> support on both the mailing list, a bit on the IRC channel and doing bug triage
<sabdfl> we should use this one as an example of how to do it really well
<mako> me agrees with sabdfl on that one
<mako> robitaille has also posted loads of good information on sounder
<robitaille> And recently I have been told that I should look in The Fridge
<mako> links to press, etc
<ogra> and to ubuntu-users
<mako> robitaille: dude, quite saying that name. it's gotta change :)
<mako> robitaille: but yes, you should :)
<whiprush> Fridge!
<ogra> mako, really ?
<sabdfl> whiprush is a bot now
<robitaille> I like that name!  But I sent jdub  as bunch of other names
<mako> robitaille: awesome
<Kamion> on a scattergun check, the bug report contributions seem very frequent and useful to me
<sabdfl> robitaille: have you been in touch with bradb at all?
<Kamion> I'm impressed
<robitaille> no
<sabdfl> robitaille: i'm sure he would like to hear your suggestions for malone
<mako> for the record, i'd be happy to approve robitaille just on his support and community activity alone
<ogra> yay
<mako> and ai am
<dholbach> robitaille: congratulations! :-)
<mako> so yeah, that's my vote
<sabdfl> kamion, elmo?
<Kamion> robitaille++
<sabdfl> i'm thrilled to say +1 from me too
<Kamion> (people with energy)++ too ;-)
<robitaille> thanks guys!
<sabdfl> so that's a majority and welcome aboard!
<\sh> grats robitaille 
<mako> \sh: you're up
<sabdfl> robitaille: you've set an excellent pace for others to follow, i really appreciate it, thank you!
<\sh> mako: i saw it coming :)
<mako> robitaille: welcome, thanks for all
<mako> \sh: you know the routine
<ogra> \sh, does a lot for the kubuntu side of the world
<\sh> well...for sure...
* robitaille must now go back to work... sigh
<ogra> i think amu or mvo could say more here....
<\sh> ok..somethin about me: old linux guy 11 years now...working for several other distris and quite interessted in OSS at all
<sabdfl> \sh: tell me a little about your interest in SIP and VoIP?
<Riddell> \sh: is promising us pykde packages, which would be excellent
<\sh> sabdfl: yes, I'm in IM communications like jabber/xmpp or SIP
<\sh> sabdfl: right now, I'm helping thom in his SER packaging and configuration for ubuntu
<sabdfl> \sh: ShtoomVoip would be awesome if we could get it out of the box on Breezy
<\sh> sabdfl: running at least my jabber servers on ubuntu :) and trying to work on pyqt/pykde stuff with mvo
<Lathiat> yes, shtoom is good, altho it still needed a little love to make usefull last check (dtmf didnt work, etc)
<opi> \sh, will you take over Jabberd packages? :)
<\sh> sabdfl: I have experiences in this issue, cause I was working with a couple of guys for gentoo on it
<sabdfl> i'm not fussy - though i prefer a python-based solution for bigotry reasons
<sabdfl> \sh: ssshhhh, elmo is around
<mvo> sabdfl: \sh wants to work on pyqt/pykde based package managment tools 
<ogra> sabdfl, lol
<sabdfl> excellent
<\sh> opi: glad to :) i made some changes to run it better as it is in the package right now
<sabdfl> \sh: your bug table is very cool
<opi> \sh, would love to see it
<\sh> sabdfl: thx :)
<\sh> opi: in my local repos are some other things for jabberd2 i would like to attend the movement from jabberd1 to v2
<\sh> well...after all, I'm up to do some work for "ubuntu on servers"
<mako> \sh: excellent!
<\sh> datacenter ubuntu or whatever you will call it :)
<ogra> \sh, switching ISH GmbH over ?
<dholbach> the MOTUServerTeam :-)
<ogra> yeah
<\sh> ogra: I'm waiting for the cds yes :)
<ogra> hehe
<dredg> it would be pretty sweet if plesk/cpanel/directadmin/etc provided ubuntu support
<\sh> ogra: and thx that u pulled me into this big adventure :)
<ogra> :)
<mako> awesome.. well i'm willing to approve
* dredg will bludgeon them gently
<amu> \sh: hrhrh no chance you're owned by kubuntu ;) 
<opi> I'm all over \sh membership :)
<sabdfl> \sh gets a +1 from me, based on his wiki page, past contributions and restaurant recommendations
<\sh> ahaha :)
<ogra> lol
<dholbach> hahaha :-)
<Lathiat> haha
<\sh> sabdfl: i hope u agree with me :)
<mdz> did somebody mention food?
<afranke> lol
<\sh> mdz: visit durban :)
<Kamion> what sabdfl said, apart possibly from the restaurant recommendations, which I don't expect will be useful to me any time soon. :-) ack
<sabdfl> mdz: don't forget to eat again
* mvo giggles
<ogra> *G*
<opi> mako, btw: note launchd thread in upcomming Ubuntu-T
<sabdfl> mdz: alternatively, don't forget to put the q-tips in your ears before showering, we don't want another drain inceident, ok
<mako> opi: lets talk about this after teh meeting
<opi> mako, sure, it's just poped up in my head. I'll e-mail you the url ;)
<mdz> a what?
<ogra> lol
<sabdfl> mako, elmo: up or needs-more-time on \sh?
<mako> is there anyone here that we have no covered yet?
<mako> sabdfl: i gave my approval first
<Kamion> sabdfl: 17:52 < mako> awesome.. well i'm willing to approve
<tritium> mako, me
<diamond> mako: i
<sabdfl> mako: sorry, missed it
<mako> tritium: alright, jump in
<elmo> I'm happy to ack too
<sabdfl> ok, that looks like quorum
<sabdfl> \sh: welcome aboard!
<sabdfl> this party is getting interesting
<\sh> thx guys :) I'm honoured to work with u :)
* ogra gives high five to \sh 
<whiprush> woo!
<dholbach> \sh: it's a pleasure to have you around
<\sh> ogra: re^5 :)
<tritium> mako, okay, I was given the TB approval before the last CC
<sabdfl> mako: want to run through the folks who were here last week?
<\sh> ogra: we will have a nice meeting at ogra's inn next month, i et :)
<sabdfl> tritium: which is your wiki page url?
<ogra> tritium is tecnically already a MOTU with no membership....
<tritium> http://www.ubuntu.com/wiki/MichaelRimbert
<sabdfl> tritium: my apologies
<tritium> I have recently been an op in #ubuntu, at the request of bob2 and crimsun
<amu> \sh: ogra's inn, that sounds great
<mako> tritium: right, definitely
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> he does good work and plays nicely with the MOTU team
<Kamion> how's #ubuntu doing? it's had a number of problems over the last several months
<tritium> I'm also converting the faculty here at Debian's birthplace (Purdue) to ubuntu
<mako> Kamion: that's later on the agneda :)
<Kamion> getting it back under some semblance of control would be good :-)
<tritium> Finally, my main interest computing interests are in the science/math/education area.  I am developing a Digital Signal Processing curriculum using python and matplotlib, rather than the traditional Matlab (or octave).
<Kamion> mako: so it is
<mako> tritium: yes.. lets finish with diamond and tritium since they are both still here
<mako> sabdfl: ^^
<tritium> sabdfl, no apologies necessary, but thank you :)
<mako> alright.. i'm happy with tritiums contributions so far
<mako> membership++ from me for sure
<rave> :)
<elmo> me too
<Kamion> ack on the basis of bugs / MOTU work, we can talk about #ubuntu stuff later on
<sabdfl> +1 from me too, based on past work. tritium, which areas are you most interested in going forward?
<sabdfl> so tritium's in - congrats!
<tritium> Thank you :-)
<ogra> hooray
<mako> awesome
<\sh> grats tritium 
<mako> diamond: hey there
<dholbach> YESYESYES!
<tritium> sabdfl, I intend to continue with scientific computing and education tools
<diamond> mako: shall i attempt the 2 sentence blurb?
<mako> diamond: please
<dholbach> *snigger* Stephen "Captain Pedantic Pants" Shirley :-)
<sabdfl> diamond: go for it
<dredg> dholbach: you have no idea
<dredg> dholbach: he even has the tshirt
<diamond> mako: ok. so far, i was involved in the universe ftbfs squashing, pointed out random additions do Kamion's wiki page, attempted to arrange hea.net as an official irish ubuntu mirror (tho i'm not sure where that went ,-)
<ogra> diamond already helped at MOTU targets
<diamond> in the future, i'd like to work on better kerberos integration, more flexible auth mechanisms, ssl for everything
<mako> ogra, dholbach: what is your verdict so far? go ahead or wait two weeks?
<sabdfl> diamond: what's your wiki page?
<Kamion> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/StephenShirley
* dholbach counts 9 fixed packages at least on one page
<diamond> Kamion: cheers
<dredg> diamond: actually, re heanet, i'm poking at mirrors@ for other things right now. i'll follow up about ie.*.ubuntu
<diamond> dredg: thanks
<sabdfl> looks great to me
<diamond> dredg: tho the mirrors team is waiting for a reply from ubuntu ,-)
<ogra> mako, a good contribution so far
<mako> awesome
<dredg> diamond: ah. well, i'm about to head to SAGE, i'll annoy someone there :)
<diamond> since the hoary release i've been taking a breather, but i intend to be more involved from about now on
<Kamion> diamond's been in touch with me off and on for some time about miscellaneous things, and the list of contributions looks good; ack
<ogra> mako, so my vote is a "go ahead"
<sabdfl> diamond: which areas interest you most?
* mako votes ++
<Kamion> diamond: it'd be good to have someone competent to work on improved Kickstart support for auth methods like krb5
<mako> diamond: that's 3.. welcome
<diamond> sabdfl: i'm a sys admin for the comp soc in the university of limerick where i'm a student. anything that helps me run a cluster of machines securely interests me -)
<diamond> mako: can i sit down now? -)
<sabdfl> ok, sounds good, welcome aboard!
<mako> diamond: maybe not :)
<mako> diamond: yes :)
<ogra> heh
<diamond> woo. thanks guys -)
<dholbach> ROCK, congratulations diamond :-)
<mako> trulux: you showed after roll call 
<mako> but you're here
<sabdfl> diamond: fabionne is interested to get clustering bits into the breezy kernel
<ogra> congrats diamond 
<mako> trulux: want to do the two sentance introduction?
<sabdfl> so you may want to collaborate with him on that
<trulux> mako: sure
<mako> Unfrgiven: you around too?
<mako> trulux: go ahead
<diamond> sabdfl: ah. i should clarify, by cluster i just mean distributed services, not beowulf stuff, sorry
<sabdfl> ah, ok
<trulux> Hi, I'm Lorenzo Hernndez Garca-Hierro and I'm here as of my willing to get the membership status within the UBuntu Linux project. My wishes to the project are to give the best of myself in those fields which I can contribute and help more, to coordinate and organize UBuntu Hardened activies and to help in anything else needed.
<sabdfl> trulux: have you taken any concrete steps with Ubuntu hardened?
<sabdfl> and do you see your main contribution as being in the code area, or elsewhere?
<Kamion> did the recent ubuntu-hardened "discussion" settle down in the end? I was too busy at the time of the IRC meeting to watch
<trulux> sabdfl: right, those are specified in some wiki pages and currently I'm finishing a definitive specification to be discussed well
<pitti> trulux: would you be willing to implement the ProactiveSecurityRoadmap?
<trulux> Kamion: right, everything is clear now and things were well discussed and even decided
<sabdfl> very cool
<pitti> trulux: there are some easy targets, would be cool if we could settle some of them soon; then you have some real uploads to show off
<trulux> pitti: of course, yes. I must say that part of the existing one is now part of the Ubuntu Hardened spec as a whole
<mako> trulux: great.. you've been talking to mdz and to ajmitch_?
<Kamion> trulux: ok, that's good to hear; hope we won't have that situation again :)
<mdz> I have not been very available to talk recently
<trulux> mako: mdz was present at the meeting and ajmitch knows well on the SELinux related work within Ubuntu Hardened
<trulux> mdz: right, no problems
<mdz> trulux has prepared some fairly detailed plans for what we need to do in order to implement SELinux within Ubuntu
<mako> trulux: right, but kamion and i were both present at the meeting but that really only means we were idling in the channel
<sabdfl> trulux: do you have a page on the wiki?
<trulux> for those interested in the meeting that toke place at #ubuntu-hardened, the log is available at http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/ubuntu/rfc-1.txt
<trulux> sabdfl: yes
<mako> trulux: cool
<trulux> sabdfl: lemme get the direct link...
<Kamion> mako: point of information, I wasn't, although trulux did invite me
<mdz> trulux: http://www.ubuntu.com/wiki/SELinux is primarily your work (and ajmitch's), yes?
<mako> Kamion: ok.. i was, but i was just idling in the channel :)
<trulux> mdz: yes, I've noted where ajmitch_ did some work like in the coreutils package
<mdz> trulux: though, you seem to have marked things 'Done' which are not yet complete
<trulux> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LorenzoHernandezGarciaHierro
<trulux> mdz: no, those Done things are done from our side, that means, patches and packages work and have bene tested
<trulux> mdz: not necessary mean they're already implemented
<sabdfl> trulux: looks like very interesting work!
<trulux> sabdfl: many thanks, I just try to help
<mako> has anyone worked with trulux and wants to offer a testimonial
<sabdfl> we won't move SELinux to Ubuntu/main until it's really ready for end-user primetime, but it's fantastic to have community interest and experimentation on that front
<pitti> to be honest, I'd like to defer his application for a few weeks until trulux actually uploaded some packages
<pitti> but he is very eager and competent, would be cool to have him on board eventually
<trulux> sabdfl: well, as it's explained in the new spec and the meeting log, packages can be ready for selinux support with no impact. if SELinux is not enabled at boot time, they will just work ignoring the selinux-related code
<sabdfl> ok, seems reasonable
<sabdfl> but we'll have some cool support for derivatives, and we can turn it ALL on there and see how it works out
<sabdfl> then move it into main when it's tested
<trulux> mako: tritium, dholbach, herve, tseng, ajmitch_ , maybe more
<trulux> hey zul 
<zul> hey
<sabdfl> trulux: we're keen to have you on board as a full member, but want to work a bit longer with you before that happens
<sabdfl> sound reasonable?
<mdz> trulux: filing a bug in bugzilla is not 'Done'; marking it Done reduces the likelihood of someone looking at it
<trulux> sabdfl: yes
<mako> alright then, sounds good
<sabdfl> ok cool
<mdz> but let's talk about this elsewhere
<mako> SOOO
<sabdfl> mako: what's up next?
<pitti> I'll try to make some time to work with him
<trulux> mdz: I apologize of not noting that well
<mako> we've got people who were at the last meeting but are not here this time
<dholbach> i didnt work that closely with trulux yet
<mako> not too many fortunately
<Kamion> pitti: that would be valuable, yeah
<mako> chris scheib
<mako> schweeb: around?
<trulux> dholbach: right
<tritium> I have worked with trulux on some of his papers, mostly LaTeX issues.
<mako> dholbach, ogra: want to speak up for schweeb?
<dholbach> he did rocking work in the LastMinuteFixes :-)
<ogra> schweeb has done the gsf-sharp package together with jdub for MOTU
<ogra> (gsf-sharp is a important piece for mono and beagle in main)
<ogra> thumbs up from my side
<dholbach> and he takes care of the nice atmosphere in the MOTU channel  -  good to have him in the team
<mako> he seemed interested and active last meeting
<mako> i had no problems with him them.. don't know
<sabdfl> so he's actively uploading to universe?
<dholbach> sabdfl: through other MOTUs
<ogra> sabdfl, not yet
<Kamion> schweeb: Has anyone asked you about doing automatic testing bits with Xen?
<whiprush> he's just logging, new job, can't irc from there.
<Kamion> (if the answer is "about a million times", sorry I'm behind)
<Kamion> ah, ok
<mako> he's very idle
<sabdfl> is he active in the DetroitLoco team?
<ogra> whiprush knows him personally...
<mako> whiprush ?
<whiprush> yes
<mako> 19:19 < sabdfl> is he active in the DetroitLoco team?
<whiprush> yes, he is.
<mako> schweeb that is
<whiprush> metallikop and I work with him regularly.
<sabdfl> if ogra and dholbach really want him to be uploading in MOTU, and he made it to the previous CC meeting, then I'm happy
<ogra> ++ for uploading
<ogra> (but we discuss memebership)
<ogra> ++ for membership
<dholbach> he absolutely deserves membership
<sabdfl> mako? kamion? elmo? thumbs-up or need-more-time on schweeb
<mako> yes, ++ i said it way early
<elmo> ack
<Kamion> ack
<Kamion> (based on MOTU recommendations)
<dholbach> woohoo!
<sabdfl> ok, done... in absentia, welcome schweeb!
<sabdfl> next up?
<mako> i'm a having a little trouble reading my handwriting.. but motaboy was not here
<mako> jon dodson WAS
<mako> he's been a major forums contributor
<mako> loads of posts, lots of support work
<mako> he's also submitted a bunch of original work to Ubuntu traffic
<sabdfl> lots of activity in the forums, lots of energy
<mako> should definitely be pulled into the notfridge
<mako> check out his page
<whiprush> heh
<dholbach> the! fridge!
<sabdfl> plus, he also started on a VIC20
<ogra> yay
<sabdfl> +1 from me, based on substantial community participation
<ogra> me too
<zul> thats nothing :)
* \sh startet with zx81 ;)
<ogra> zul, couldnt convince my parents to a zx81 ;)
<smurfix> sabdfl: ... and that's supposed to be an advantage?  ;-)   (the VIC20 thing, that is)
<ogra> heh
<zul> ogra: heh we were doing logo in grade 1
<Lathiat> haha
<sabdfl> that's where the HoaryGaming instinct must have come from. Frogger Rules!
<ogra> yeah
<\sh> smurfix: don't discuss about a vic20 :) I and ds@nwu.de puzzled your uisdn config ;)
<sabdfl> others on CC?
<smurfix> \sh: That feels like even more ancient history to me ...
<sabdfl> mako, kamion, elmo, decision on JonDodson?
<mako> i vote in favor
<elmo> ack
<\sh> smurfix: well...the time for SPVs and teles card inside a small cyrix box and uisdn...better that INS' banzai router :) long time ago
<Kamion> no objections, although I haven't had a chance to follow up the links yet, so kind of +0 so far :)
<mako> ok.. kassetra was also present last time
<sabdfl> ok, so yes to JonDodson
<sabdfl> also seems like a very strong community participation from Kassetra
<mako> yeah, a similar sort of thing
<mako> this is part due to conversations between ryan troy and myself
<mako> about bringin the ubuntu community and forums community closer together
<mako> membership for major forums admins and moderators, etc
<sabdfl> inviting forums guys to become members - great idea
<sabdfl> is ryan himself a member yet?
<Kamion> the local government work sounds cool, I'd be interested to hear more about that
<mako> no.. but i, not so subtly suggested he do ddo it for the next meeting :)
<mako> so he will be
<sabdfl> lots of diverse threads initiated and touched on
<mako> absolutely.. 
<sabdfl> cool, +1 from me based on community participation. these guys will have a very good finger on the pulse of the end user community, very helpful
<coastGNU> sabdfl: On the long run inviting forum guys to become members might be no good idea. CC will grow so will the forums what on the long run will make it hard to coordinate such a big group.
<mako> +1 from me too
<mako> elmo, Kamion: ?
<mako> finally.. travis newman
<ogra> coastGNU, we'll manage it, dont worry :)
<mako> panickedthumb, around?
<sabdfl> coastGNU: these guys are not joining the CC, they are becoming members, and membership is open to anybody who makes a substantial input into the project, in any area, and does it with charm and flair :-)
<Kamion> ack, would like to hear more about the advocacy bits
* mako too
<mako> i can invite kassetra to the next CC meeting
<sabdfl> so that's a firm yes to Kassetra
<diamond> clarification of my irc whois name now on wiki page: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/StephenShirley
<Lathiat> haha
<mdke> i added my name very late to the list
<mdke> hope that's ok
<sabdfl> mdke: wiki page?
<mako> mdke: sure.. we'll get to you last
<coastGNU> sabdfl: OK, muddled CC and membership. so forget what I said.
<mako> sabdfl: the cc agenda
<mdke> mako, thanks
<sabdfl> matthew east?
<sabdfl> ok
<mako> yes
<mdke> yes
<mako> so travis newman
<mako> also not here now, also there before
<dholbach> the moin-izer :-)
<sabdfl> mdke: you've done really superlative work in the wiki
<mako> i've been working with travis since basically last september
<mako> he's been involved in a ton of community work
<mako> writing things, working on the forums, support etc
<mako> a great example of non-code contributions
<mdke> sabdfl, ty
<mako> as far as i'm concerned, panickedthumb++ 
<Kamion> Travis looks good to me; I wonder how much of UBAD exists yet
<sabdfl> mako: +1 on travis newman
<sabdfl> i'm really keen to get UBAD onto launchpad as soon as possible!
<mako> sabdfl: it's simple enough it would be a good candidate to start off with
<mako> so.. i think that's my list of people who were here last time
<mako> so..
<mako> mdke: you're up
<mdke> mako, hi
<mako> mdke: your reputation preceeds you
<mdke> nice of you to say so
<sabdfl> mdke: you've more than earned a place on the team already, i'm interested in your vision going forwards
<mako> but go ahead, do the 2 liner for those of us whose wiki page you have not redone in moin
<mdke> LOL
<sabdfl> mdke: if I ever need one, I definitely want you as *my* lawyer
<mdke> ok i work in the documentation team and the italian team. I've been working on the wiki, and on getting translations of the documentation together
<mdke> sabdfl, don't tell me you don't have one
<sabdfl> mdke: squads, but thus far fortunately at a relatively long arms length
<mdke> *grins*
<mako> sabdfl: *if*
<mako> sabdfl: i'm suprised you don't have one following you around ;)
<Lathiat> heheh
<ogra> *g*
<mdke> maybe he does, but doesn't know about it
<mako> i'm also suprised i don't have one following me around
<sabdfl> mdke: what would you say is the biggest challenge for ubuntu going forward, that you are interested in?
<mdke> hmm
<sabdfl> mako: thats a private detective, it's different
<mdke> sabdfl, to be honest my approach so far has been to wait for a problem which presents itself, and trying to help
<mdke> sabdfl, i think the consensus in the documentation team at the moment is that Ubuntu's "user-friendlyness" is not yet manifested in the documentation
<sabdfl> are you based in the uk?
<mdke> yes
<sabdfl> and the italian interest?
* mako tries to decide which team member he wants to single out as the biggest problem for ubuntu going forward ;)
<mdke> i have a personal attachment to italy
<sabdfl> mako: think hard. you only get one bullet
<zul> mako: is it me :)
* Lathiat laughs
<mdke> sabdfl, i spent some time there, and my g/f is italian
<sabdfl> ok. +1 on mdke from me, based on tremendous wiki work
<mako> just to be contrary, because thi smeeting is long, +1 based on local team work and helping create a good loco team model
<dholbach> mdke++
<Kamion> mdke's been doing loads of good stuff for ages. +1
<mako> mdke: welcome dude
<mdke> thanks very much
* ogra would give a +1 on mdke's #ubuntu work
<mako> alright, anyone else here for membership that we've missed?
<mdke> lemme know what I need to do
<mako> MARATHON
<mako> going once.. 
<mako> going twice..
<mdke> hang on
<sabdfl> SOLD! errr..
<ogra> marathon ? where's jordi ?
<mdke> jerome was on the list
<ogra> oh, yes, jerome
<mdke> i think this is night time for him tho
<mako> right.. he should be able to make the next one
<dholbach> yes, should be
<mako> we all spent a lot of time talking to him a couple weeks ago
<sabdfl> mako: do we have the IncrediblyTimeshiftingCCSchedule?
<mako> sabdfl: not as incredible as it used to be
<Simira> so, you're putting the cc-meeting on the other side of the hours again next time, eh? I was hoping to attend then, but...
<mako> sabdfl: the cc members weren't making the 5am meeting :)
<mako> it will shift.. but not to anything INSANE for the uk
<Lathiat> stupid timezones
<mako> or else we don't have quorum
<sabdfl> *cough*
<sabdfl> ok
<Simira> uk time is fine with me
<\sh> well
<mako> but it may be morning or latish night for the uk
<\sh> we're all UTC ;) only the daylight is different ;)
<sabdfl> when shall we freaks meet again?
<mako> two weeks
<mako> but we have two other itmes!
<mako> first
<mako> relatively quickies
<mako> IRC
<mako> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/InternetRelayChat
<Simira> nice tool for communication
<mako> bob2 and daniels and some community members and i sat down to work through some stuff at udu
<ogra> Simira, pretty broken recently through trolls....
<mako> and we followed up on the last resolution to suggest some new operators for the #ubuntu channel
<mako> everyone should take a look at that document...
<Lathiat> Everytime i goto #ubuntu i get sucked in helping for like 2 or 3 hours because so many people give out wrong information :\
<tritium> I'm helping out with ops when I can, but if I get disconnected, I have to wait for somebody to give me ops again
<\sh> well
<mako> and we should appoint some new operators now.. some have already been appointed
<\sh> if I can say something to this very common problem? 
<mako> so, here is the list of people that were nominated:
<Kamion> tritium: can be sorted out with chanserv
<\sh> this happens for years
<tritium> Kamion, yes (ChanServer kicked me out Sunday night, for example)
<mako> crimsun, tritium, ajmitch_, carlk, amaranth, dholbach, ogra
<Kamion> tritium: I mean if you're on the access list ...
<mako> also, all cc members should be listed as operators
<Simira> I didn't realize there were so much trolls on #ubuntu
<\sh> and the only thing you can do...is to split up the chan into several, with a max of users for one channel...the rest does chanserv and ops for chanserv
<tritium> Kamion, right
<sabdfl> whos carlk?
<mako> so that if nobody else is around, they can be called in
<Lathiat> \sh: that sucks because you get divison of knowledge
<mako> sabdfl: someone who is very helpful and active on #ubuntu
<sabdfl> ok
<ogra> sabdfl, he posts a lot in ubuntu-users
<Kamion> Carl Karsten, I'm guessing
<mdke> Simira, its full of em :/
<Simira> mako: does that go for all of the mentioned?
<mako> Simira: yes
<sabdfl> i'm happy to appoint community ops
<\sh> Lathiat: well, I'm using irc for more then 10 years now...and trolls and fights you will have in any situation
<sabdfl> think we've seen good stuff from all of them, be great if they are willing to take on the ops challenge too
<Lathiat> \sh: yes, but if people who are around who can deal with them, it helps
<mako> this is in addition to the current ops
<Seveas> indeed, but decent ops can control a lot..
<mako> we should make sure we always have a few people in the channel with ops
<Lathiat> We should try get a good time zone coverage i fpossible
<\sh> Lathiat: it's not a faulty protocol, the people have bugs (sometimes) 
<sabdfl> do we refer people to the CoC in the topic?
<mako> sabdfl: we have in the past.. not sure if it is done right now
<mdke> good idea
<\sh> Lathiat: punishment increases the trolling mode 
<dholbach> i'd be happy, if somebody else would take over my place as a #ubuntu op
<mako> dholbach: are you not active on the channel?
<lamont> sabdfl: no comment about CoC in the current topic
<tritium> I agree.  Also, maybe clearing up misconceptions about backports and ubuntuguide
<dholbach> i'm not in there that often
<Lathiat> \sh: You need the right people to handle the situations
<mdke> tritium, +++++++++
<Kamion> we can never totally eliminate trolling on IRC, but we can do a lot better than we're currently doing
<Lathiat> I've used irc alot
<Lathiat> been an irc op etc
<mako> dholbach: ok
<Lathiat> you need to try discourage people
<dholbach> mako: thank you
<Simira> mako: I'll be happy to do a job there. I'm not much on #ubuntu because I mostly manage on my own, but I can give some support. I'm planning on trying to become an ubuntu-member in couple of weeks or so. Though I think the ones you have mentioned are nice people, and active.
<Lathiat> and appropriate kickbanning etc as needed
<Lathiat> but if you can shut them up without that, it helps, otherwise you get ban avoidance, etc
<mako> Simira: the most important thing is now finding people who are active on the channel
<ogra> Simira, grab dholbachs place
<\sh> Lathiat: the easiest way to handle this situation is to have an irc admin who can "punish" those guys the hardway...serverbans etc.
<mako> in most cases, just having someone with ops say "hey, mind the CC is enough"
<mako> sorry
* Seveas likes to volunteer: I am active (and helping) as much as i can there
<mako> the CoC
<Lathiat> \sh: that doesnt really help any more than a kickban
<mako> right, if you are interested in volunteer, please talk to me afterward
<mako> we can vet everyone right now
<Simira> mako: I can choose to be. As I'm on a sick leave on 80%, I'm mostly at home in front of the computer anyway.
<mako> sorry.. can't
<Lathiat> mako: what are the 'requirements'
* sabdfl just found out he couldn't change the topic on #ubuntu
<mako> we can't have the "i should be ops" discussion right now
<ogra> mako, i'm not that active anymore, i'm more -devel -motu centric recently, but being around to clearify a situation should be enough, no ?
<Lathiat> like, i am not an ubuntu member, but i spend alot of time on irc and helping people around the place and would be willing to help take care...
<mako> lets talk afterwards if you want to be ops
<mako> for the moment, lets please just handle the CURRENT list of proposals
<\sh> Lathiat: well...hope it works :) i'd seen networks going down because of trolls...complete communities broke up
<Lathiat> righton, moving on...
<mako> does anyone have any problem with the people on that list?
<mako> it's not complete? it's just the first stap and getting more ops in there
<tritium> mako, if I may point out one thing...
<mako> tritium: yes, yes
<Lathiat> looking at what time/zones are covered might be an idea
<Kamion> I'm happy with everyone on the current list at http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/InternetRelayChat; I know them all and they're all reasonable people. I think they should have to accept the nomination, though. :-)
<mako> DUDE, UBUNTU CDS JUST ARRIVED
<tritium> I'm defending my thesis in 10 weeks, so my coverage will be sparse until then, if I am an op
<Kamion> Lathiat: yeah ...
<mako> tritium: that's fine.. that's why there are a dozen or so people with ops
<Simira> mako: I think it's a good list. I don't know tritium and carlk, but the others are good
<sabdfl> looks good to me - mako go ahead and thank them if they accept it
<sabdfl> mako: 1 millionth, or Hoary?
<lamont> mako: WOOT!
<mako> sabdfl: well, haory now.. got hte 1 millionth yesterday :)
<ogra> mako, yeah
<Simira> mako: send some for me, please?
<dholbach> incredible!
<Lathiat> woo they are shipping? great
<dholbach> champagne!
<sabdfl> ok, LocoTeamList?
<smurfix> Cool. When will mine arrive then?  ;-)
<\sh> smurfix: hmm...and mine...same timezone ;)
* afranke is still waiting for the CDs
<Kamion> the third point in InternetRelayChat's implementation plan is a very good idea, I think
<Lathiat> yes
<Lathiat> especially in big public channels like that, that does help
<Kamion> the current number of two is too small in proportion
<smurfix> getting started with locoteamlists ... mako wanted to create that mailing list as soon as he is admin on the lists box and can do it
<mako> smurfix: do you have anything to vote on or present on loco teams?
<sabdfl> as to the last point, happy to take on ops, just need someone to tell me how to use it appropriately
<coastGNU> Kamion: on the long run there should be at least 2 op per timezone
<Lathiat> sabdfl: its pretty easy i can give you a quick rundown if you want.
<ogra> there is a faq on freendoe anywhere
<ogra> freenode even
<mako> sabdfl: just type /kickban daniels every time you join ;)
<Lathiat> (that goes for anyone)
<Lathiat> mako: haha
<sabdfl> Lathiat: cool, thanks, privmsg?
<Lathiat> sabdfl: sure
<\sh>  /msg chanserv help ;)
<Amaranth> anyone in central standard time (US)?
<Amaranth> :)
<mako> Amaranth: i'm in eastern time us
<mako> close enough
<mako> smurfix: nothing this time?
<mako> smurfix: i think we'll have some new loco team process stuff to present at the next one.. the spec needs to be fully polished
<mako> maybe some other CC related specs
<mako> including the membership/maintainership one
<mako> will be up for presentation
<smurfix> mako: not WRT specific teams; I've arrived home yesterday and haven't gotten around to any team-specific stuff yet.
<mako> mostly small changes but they need to eventually be run by the council
<mako> so....
<mako> that brings us to 
<mako> ANY OTHER BUSINESS?
<smurfix> mako: right
<Simira> mako / smurfix: I have some thoughts about LoCo activities, as well as some question. I can try to have them written down by next meeting.
<mako> Simira: awesome
<mako> AO
<sabdfl> next meeting?
<mako> AOB.. going once
<mako> gone
<mako> :)
* diamond flees
<mako> so
<mako> so the new meeting times proposed were
<mako> 22UTC and 12UTC
<sabdfl> now that diamond is out of earshot...
<smurfix> Simira: might be best to discuss them in email during the next two weeks. We have also done some wok on that at UDU; have you read that?
<sabdfl> both fine by me
<mako> i want to find out which one is better for the aussies
<mako> and then suggest that one
<Lathiat> grumbel at ^W in xchat = close window
<Simira> smurfix: no, I've generally had a problem finding documentations on udu work...
<mako> so we can get jerome and others there
<smurfix> Simira: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamProcess
<mako> for the next meeting
<mako> but it will be in two weeks from today
<sabdfl> actually 22 UTC is sort of in verboten time for me during summer
<sabdfl> in london
<sabdfl> when marianne is in town
<Simira> smurfix: ah, thanks. I'll send you a mail when it's done.
<mako> hmm.. 
<\sh> sabdfl: 22 utc is 23 uk time?
<smurfix> Simira: I've already implemented some of that on the main wiki's loco* pages
<mako> if we do these bi-weekly, they should be quick meetings
<sabdfl> \sh: yes, in summer
<mako> we can discuss this then
<sabdfl> so at preent i could do up to 21h00 UTC
<\sh> sabdfl:hmmm....23:00 the pubs are closed..u should visit germany ;) 
<dholbach> why don't we rotate in +8h cycles?
<Amaranth> pubs close at 23:00?
<mako> but the next meeting will be at SOME TIME on tuesday may 24th
<mdke> Amaranth, yup
<mako> Amaranth: don't ask.. it's insane
<\sh> Amaranth: in uk yes :)
<ogra> dholbach, because there is a big hole in the schedule then
<mdke> not for long tho
<sabdfl> hmm... in two weeks M is away, so next meeting can be 22h00 UTC. happy with that mako?
<Simira> dholbach: please, not
<mako> sabdfl: yes
<sabdfl> kamion? elmo?
<Amaranth> 02:00 here :)
<dholbach> hm... i thought it was fairest for everybody involved
<Kamion> I can make any of the suggested times
<Kamion> at least on Tuesdays
<elmo> sure
<mako> dholbach: we can.. we just can't rotate into insane times for the uk or we don't have enough people to vote :)
<mako> dholbach: experience dictates
<elmo> I'm happy with any time that's >> 7am british time
<Simira> :D
<Amaranth> hey, i think i was here for that rotation
<sabdfl> ok. done
<mako> Amaranth: :)
<Amaranth> we spent 40 minutes trying to get enough people to open
<mako> excellent
<JanC> Amaranth : pubs close at 23h in the UK, 'private' clubs don't...  ;-)
<mako> thanks everyone!
<sabdfl> mako: thanks very much! do the countdown thing again :-)
<dholbach> mako: ok... you're right
<mako> dholbach: thanks for helping poke and prod and provide information.. i appreciate it
<Amaranth> JanC: That's...disturbing.
<dholbach> mako: de rien :-)
<mdke> Amaranth, they are about to implement 24 hour licensing
<JanC> and you can get a 1-day 'membership' in most clubs  ;-)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:dholbach] : Tue 24 May 22:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tue 17 May 20:00 UTC: Tech Board || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<Lathiat> JanC: heheh
<sabdfl> ok, thanks everyone and see you in two weeks! welcome aboard new Members
<mdke> thanks
<mako> alright
<Kamion> thanks all
<\sh> sabdfl: thx :)
<mako> if you were approved
<dholbach> thanks!
<Amaranth> dholbach: shouldn't those be ordered by date?
<tritium> Thanks again, all :)
<\sh> thx to all :)
<ogra> thanks
<mako> you're not ACTUALLY a member until you ahve sent me a signed CoC
<\sh> mako: look in your inbox ,)
<mako> so if you were approved by the council today
<Lathiat> \sh: haha
<mako> i already have gotten a few of them
<tritium> mako, we're sticking around to discuss #ubuntu ops?
<JanC> fortunately, some pubs in Belgium are opened 24h/day  :)
<mako> tritium: i need a minute to get some coffee and such
<tritium> of course
<mako> this was a long meeting
<mako> yeah, back in 15
<\sh> Lathiat: well...if you could see me laying here with backpain...and laptop on my hips....;) it's funny how i do my work right now ,)
<crimsun> please ping me when ops is back up for discussion, switching to another buffer
<Lathiat> \sh: :(
<tritium> crimsun, will do
<crimsun> thanks, tritium 
<JanC> \sh : I really hope it never gets as bad for you as my father had once; he couldn't get up without help for more than 2 months  :-(
<JanC> so take care to not do anything to make it worse  ;-)
<\sh> JanC: well...it's happening from time to time...at least i can move myself :)
<Simira> smurfix: lots of good stuff you've done! I totally agree on every sentence. The things I had in mind though, is a bit more towards the practical ways of running a LoCo, as I've never done that before myself.
<tritium> I'll be back in 2 minutes...
<tritium> I'm back
<coastGNU> smurfix: ping
* tritium hopes mako didn't go all the way back to Seattle for coffee ;)
<mako> tritium: nope
<mako> tritium: ok.. 
<tritium> mako, ;)
<Amaranth> so...
<Lathiat> haha
<crimsun> (reading chanserv help)
<ggross> i've got a question : Is there an HowTo to learn how to contribute to Ubuntu ? I'm a pretty new linux user (Ubuntu addict) and want to help as i can 
<crimsun> I presume the consensus is that all CC members in addition to those Ubuntu devs are ops?
<Lathiat> ggross: Are you a native english speaker?
<dholbach> ggross: http://ubuntu.com/community/participate is a good start
<\sh> sh*t
<ggross> Lathiat: no sorry, but i understood it quite well
<mako> ggross: yes, the participate page is teh best we ahve
<mako> i think it's quite good.. certainly quite better than it used to be
<Lathiat> ggross: Was just going to mention, if not, translation teams might be of interest
<Simira> and #ubuntu-love
<mako> sure
<dholbach> don't forget the MOTU team :-)
<Lathiat> dholbach: :)
<ggross> MOTU isn't for boss-users ?
<Lathiat> ggross: boss-users?
<tritium> Kamion, what were some of your concerns regarding #ubuntu?
<ogra> boss ?
<dholbach> boss-users?
<ggross> i mean : great linux masters ?
<Amaranth> hehe no
<Simira> mako: I must admit, I still don't feel like I'm contributing enough, even I'm trying to runa LoCo and a translation team...
<ogra> ggross, its lfor everyone who ants to help with packages
<ggross> ok :D
<Simira> ogra: don't you need to know a bit of programming and packaging for that?
<Kamion> tritium: erm, fairly basic, just that it's too noisy and unhelpful to newcomers who aren't very used to IRC noise
<Kamion> tritium: and general trolling etc.
<dholbach> Simira: you can learn it all, if you want to
<ogra> Simira, there is nothing you cant learn ;)
<tritium> Kamion, I agree.
<Kamion> tritium: nothing unusual for IRC, just needs to be brought under control more
<Amaranth> Kamion: You could do what #python did.
<dholbach> my proposal was to have #ubuntu-beginners as well :-)
<ogra> argh
<Simira> dholbach, ogra : actually, right now, there is. That's why I'm on a sick leave from my studies for another 6 months :p
<Lathiat> Amaranth: i disagree with what #pyton did
<Lathiat> it splits up knowledge
<Lathiat> and makes it harder to look after
<Amaranth> Lathiat: No other way to handle the problem.
<Lathiat> tho only possible reason i see for that is when there are too many people talking the channel goes by too fast to be usefull. i don't know if that was an issue for #python or not
<ogra> Simira, there is nothing you cant learn .... if you like it enough you will eventually :P
<mako> tritium: yeah, i don't think the problem is that #ubuntu is horrible.. just that we've gottena lot of complaints that it's out of control and are there aren't a lot of people who taking a sort of leadership role in bringing it back under control
<Amaranth> Lathiat: It moved pretty quick at times.
<mako> tritium: and that the lack of operators was one major factor in that
<mako> so, we'll make more operators
<tritium> mako, right
<ggross> +1 for operators too
<mako> if we get to a place where there are active and responsible ops in the channel all of the time, and we still need to make changes, we can cross that bridge then
* Amaranth is on IRC _way_ too long everyday
<crimsun> yeah, currently we can't cover the entire day
<mako> the role of an op should be to make sure the CoC is respected, remind peopl when it's not
<mako> crimsun: then we need more ops. that's fine
<mako> feel free to suggest people to me
<Amaranth> i'd like to volunteer, but i think you have some bureaucratic things i'd have to go through first
<mako> Amaranth: not really
<Amaranth> i hope i spelled that right
<crimsun> Amaranth: I think you're on the recommended list, no?
<Amaranth> i am? where is that list?
<crimsun> (during the meeting)
<Amaranth> oh, i missed the meeting
<Amaranth> did my math wrong
<mako> Amaranth: wait dude.. yeah. we already approved you as an op :)
<mako> Amaranth: if you want it, it's yours
<Amaranth> cool
<mako> not really buerocratic
<crimsun> I'll go ahead and op those in that list if that's ok, mako 
<mako> suggest people you think would be good and the cc will use any previous experience they ahve and talk to some other irc regulars who we trust
<mako> crimsun: yeah. we need to add them to the chanserv too
<ogra> Amaranth, getting a gpg key ....
<crimsun> mako: ok
<Amaranth> ogra: I think I have one. That's the same thing used to sign packages, right?
<ogra> Amaranth, and signing a document with it.... 
<mako> tritium: so what was your question?
<mako> tritium: anything in particular?
<tritium> perhaps we should discuss the role of the ops a little.  You mention the CoC.  I assume we're also there to help with questions (as is reasonable)
<ogra> Amaranth, yep... it should be signed ....
<Amaranth> err, what?
<tritium> mako, from before during the CC?
<mako> tritium: ops should be a good example
<tritium> my concern earlier was my availability
<ogra> Amaranth, ,,, by anyone from the strong connected set....(thats nearly everyone you find on the pgp servers)
<mako> not afraid to use the power when they need to, also not using it unnecessarily
<crimsun> Amaranth: can't op you since you're not in that channel ;)
<mako> excercise good judgement, be helpful where you can
<mako> correct people when they are wrong
<mako> that's it
<crimsun> Amaranth: n/m
<ogra> mako, what if an op abuses his power
<tritium> it's easy, as someone mentioned earlier, spending hours just answering question after question
<mako> then they won't be an op anymore
<Lathiat> tritium: ugh, i get sucked into that far too often.
<Lathiat> largely because so many people give out bad info :\
<mako> take whatever time you have
<Amaranth> ogra: You've lost me. :/
<Lathiat> and i feel sorry for the poor users, heh.
<tritium> Yes, backports and ubuntuguide come to mind
<mako> if you don't have loads of time, that's fine
<ogra> Amaranth, i was talking about the key
<mako> i'll be an op but i won't be paying attention to the channel very much
<mako> that's life
<ogra> mako, me too
<mako> we want people who are there much of the time so they can play an important role there
<Amaranth> ogra: I need someone to sign my key?
<mako> but you're a volunteer and we understand that
<ogra> Amaranth, to make it valid, yes
<Amaranth> Lathiat: bit by ^W again?
<Lathiat> i think the first goal should be to have someone with ops at least around 24/7 for other people to harass when some authority needs to be asserted.
<Lathiat> Amaranth: yeh
<Lathiat> Amaranth: i should install davyds packages that fix that
<Amaranth> ogra: Ok, how do I do that?
<Lathiat> but.. effort
<Lathiat> when im bored
<crimsun> tritium: bob2 described it pretty well (similar to what mako said): we're fairly hands-off in terms of muzzling or banning, warn lots before actually muzzling
<ogra> Amaranth, meet someone else with a key in person.... sign each other
<Amaranth> ha
<Amaranth> i live in iowa
<Lathiat> yeh, warning and diffusing helps with trolls, otherwise it just gets worse
<ogra> Amaranth, at a LUG or at uni....
<tritium> crimsun, good, I like that
<mako> we don't need a #ubuntu irc war
<Kamion> http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?qs=Iowa
<Amaranth> ogra: Anyone could do it?
<Kamion> I realise Iowa's a big place though
<ogra> Amaranth, see Kamion 
<Kamion> Amaranth: anyone who's already in the strongly-connected set
<mako> i think if we're remotely respectful of each other, it'll be no problem
<Kamion> or come to an Ubuntu conference :-)
<ogra> yeah
* Amaranth is completely lost
<ogra> that will catapult you in the top 1000 immediately
<Simira> haha
<Lathiat> Amaranth: ok
<Lathiat> Amaranth: gpg keys
<Lathiat> Amaranth: they can be 'signed'
<mako> tritium: did you have other questions
<JanC> Amaranth : preferably someone who's strongly involved in open source  ;-)
<Lathiat> this means that someone else has verified that key belongs to you
<Lathiat> it usually involves checking each otehrs photo ID to confirm they are them
<Amaranth> I got that part, the strongly-connected part confused me though.
<Lathiat> and manually (in person) checking the key fingerprint is correct
<Lathiat> so then by signign peopels keys
<Lathiat> you create a 'web of trust'
<tritium> mako, just wondering about ChanServ issues
<Amaranth> i'm on the other side of the state from the people on that website
<Lathiat> so what you want is someone to sign your key
<Lathiat> who has been signed by lots of other people
<Lathiat> (in the ubuntu communit)
<Lathiat> or at the very least, by 1
<Amaranth> Ok, but none of those people live anywhere near me.
<Kamion> Amaranth: strongly-connected basically means that you're linked into the same web of signings as everyone else
<Kamion> Amaranth: (none of this is necessary for #ubuntu IRCopping or anything, in case there's confusion about that)
<mako> tritium: i don't have chanserv access for that channel
<mako> tritium: i'll find out who does and have them add the folks on taht list
<Amaranth> ok
<tritium> mako, thanks
<Amaranth> would all that crap be required for motu? :P
<mako> tritium: that's it?
<ogra> Amaranth, yep
<Amaranth> yeah, i think i'll just get someone else to package my stuff
<Kamion> I believe that's jdub
<crimsun> (yep, gotta be a member to be a maintainer ;)
<ogra> Amaranth, because your key is your identity 
<Kamion> and possibly lamont/fabbione/Keybuk
<Kamion> mako: ^--
<tritium> mako, yeah, sorry.  I didn't mean to keep you around.
<ogra> Amaranth, andyou verify your responsibility by signing the package
<Amaranth> so how are all these people getting accepted for motu then? i doubt they're all meeting those guys in person
<mako> Kamion: cool
<Lathiat> Amaranth: other people can sponsor the packages
<Lathiat> and upload them
<Lathiat> rather than the person doing it
<ogra> Amaranth, one who has a signe key is enough
<mako> Amaranth: they are meeting someone who i meeting someone who is meeting those guys
<Kamion> Amaranth: everyone who can upload has met up with somebody
<Kamion> Amaranth: Debian does this too - regardless of what you might have heard, getting one's key signed is usually not the hard part there
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> well, it's the hard part for me, i live in the middle of the country with no one even remotely near me
<Amaranth> i'll just try to get sponsors
<Amaranth> btw, what's that biglumber.com site for?
<mako> Amaranth: you must sometimes spend some time in a place where there are other computer users
<ogra> Amaranth, seeing where you find someone to sign you
<mako> Amaranth: the site for people want to meet up and sign keys with other people :)
<Amaranth> well, i'm in omaha right now and lots of people are listed but i don't see how i can get someone to sign my key
<Kamion> mail them and ask
<mako> Amaranth: yeah dude.. just mail and ask.. if you're in omaha, you can definitely find someone
<Kamion> the people listed on biglumber are just those who signed themselves up there offering to sign keys, not everyone in the strong set
<ogra> Amaranth, they have put their data there intentional ;)
<mako> Amaranth: you meet up and you ahve coffee/tea/beer/whatever.. you chat about computers, you exchange information
<mako> you get a key signed and you make a friend
<Kamion> yeah, it's meant to be a social thing
<mako> i've met lots of great people through keysigning
<Amaranth> heh, there's the problem ;)
<amu> .. ah thats the keytrinking and beersinging thing :) 
<tritium> Amaranth, just don't touch mako's passport
<Amaranth> I don't do social things much. If I did I wouldn't be on IRC so much. :)
<ogra> hehe
<mako> dude, i've had places to stay while traveling through people i met originally throug hkeysignings :)
<mako> Amaranth: yes, but chances are, these people ALSO do irc
<crimsun> yeah, keysignings are great for prospective couches
<Lathiat> heh
<Amaranth> damn, i missed the Omaha LUG
<Amaranth> it was may 3rd
<mako> yeah, that would have been good
<mako> whatever dude, just mail the people on the biglumber
<mako> organize a meeting at a bar of cafe of your choice
<mako> then run with it
<Amaranth> crimsun: btw, what happens when i get disconnected? do i need you to op me again?
<Amaranth> crimsun: since i'm not in the access list
<mako> Amaranth: chanserv
<mako> Amaranth: you will be
<crimsun> or bug one of the other ops (/me points at tritium ;)
<crimsun> (I'm not in the access list either)
<tritium> none of us are yet.  We just help each other out in the meantime
<Amaranth> ok
<Amaranth> oh, one last thing
<Amaranth> does anyone have logs of the meeting?
<ggross> i must have it
<tritium> fabbione does
<Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ will get them in time
<Kamion> (automatically)
<Amaranth> thanks
<Lathiat> i'd be happy to help out operator wise, as i am around irc alot of the day, but im not really widely involved with the project yet and nor am i a member yet, where does that leave me?
<crimsun> you should really apply for membership
<tritium> mako, thanks again for your support on membership, and for the ops meeting
<Lathiat> crimsun: i plan to
<Lathiat> trying to get involved more with MOTU atm
<dholbach> wohoo!
<crimsun> excellent
<Lathiat> i'm already doing a lot of local advocacy etc
<Lathiat> got quite a few people at my uni interested and actually using it, gave away a stack of warty cds with quite a few bites, etc. eagerly awaiting my hoary cds.
<tritium> is it true that membership comes with an @ubuntu.com email address?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> eventually
<dholbach> at some stage :-)
<tritium> nice ;)
<\sh> pray that the machine is coming up again
<\sh> it's my old redhat 7.2 installation on a dual pIII 
<Lathiat> heh
<\sh> and i had to reboot it the hard way
<\sh> unplug powercable
<\sh> and ext2+ext3 as fs :(
<Lathiat> \sh: no magic sysrq key in kernel?
<Lathiat> alt+sysrq+s is a life saver
<Lathiat> ext2 is ouch
<\sh> Lathiat: well...not remoteley
<Lathiat> ext3 shoudl be ok
<\sh> phew
<\sh> up and running
<\sh> i did a good job i have to say...right now i'm really proud of me...and the customers on this server are happy too
<Lathiat> what happened?
<\sh> well.
<\sh> there was a temp mysql file in /tmp
<\sh> it ate all the space on the /tmp part
<\sh> so nothing worked...no mysql nothing
<\sh> but it wasn't shown as a big fat file...it showed only 100kb
<\sh> i couldn't kill mysql, cause it tried to write to this file...
<\sh> syncing disks didn't help 
<\sh> so...I had 2 ptys running sync couldn't stop them in any way...the next decision was: hard reboot via powerswitch
<\sh> the only fear i had was ext2+ext3 
<\sh> i had some nasty crashes earlier on with ext3
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> fun
<\sh> but it looks like the server liked it the way I handled it ;) most likely this server had a sm treatment ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-05-19
* ogra gets some coffee
<dholbach> get me a cup as well
<dholbach> please :-)
<ogra> sure
<\sh> hmmm...
* siretart just got back from dinner ;)
<Nafallo> hmm, I wonder if I need workrave or something...
<dholbach> workrave is gooood
<ogra> silly sheep...
<jani> hello all
<dholbach> hai jani
<tritium> doh!  I forgot the doughnuts...
* ogra prefers gnome-typing-monitor
<Nafallo> the damn thing was irritating last time I tried ;-)
<\sh> who or what is workrave?
<ogra> \sh, install it
<\sh> ogra: no...the last time you said this, i had to become a ubuntu addict ... ;)
<ogra> hehe
<\sh> +n
<Nafallo> hehe
<siretart> ah, you mean the package workrave. :)
<ajmitch_> morning
<dholbach> hey ajmitch_ 
<crimsun> (will be in and out for a few more minutes, talking with boss)
<dholbach> crimsun: good luck
<jani> guys a question re. BOF specs
<jani> what's with those like 
<jani> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmaImplementation
<ajmitch_> hi chmj 
* ogra puts a huge, hot steaming well flavored pot of coffe on the table
<jani> they link to password protected area on canonical.com
<ogra> milk 
<ogra> `
* ajmitch_ drinks it all
<ogra> ?
<ogra> sugar ?
<dholbach> just sugar, thanks
<\sh> no milk no sugar just black...
<dholbach> jani: those are for the malone/launchpad crew, i'm not sure when it will hit us other guys
<jani> dholbach, thanks
<chmj> hi ajmitch_
<\sh> oh malone...is it working again?
<dholbach> ok... can we get cracking?
<dholbach> doko just finished briefing us about our next big target: UniverseCxxTransition
<dholbach> you will find the rationale for all this well described on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BreezyToolchainTransition
<dholbach> maybe we should all dive into it for some seconds :-)
* ogra points to #ubuntu-toolchain for toolchain specific questions after this meeting.....
<dholbach> especially the points after "C++ ABI Transition" are of big importance for all of us
<dholbach> in short: as the C++ ABI with g++4.0 will break we will have to recompile ALL c++ packages
<dholbach> unfortunately just recompiling wont suffice
<ajmitch_> which means finding any package that uses c++
<dholbach> doko did a lot of work on this already: CxxLibraryList
<ogra> which means we have to do it bottom up...
<dholbach> ... will be our first taget
<dholbach> the attack plan is something like this:
<dholbach> 1) freeze c++ applications from uploads
<siretart> ajmitch_: these should be able to identify by looking at the reverse dependencies of libstdc++6
<dholbach> 2) fix libraries
<dholbach> 3) fix applications using c++ 
<ogra> uploads of apps that use c++ will be rejected until the libs are all built
<ajmitch_> siretart: sadly, that doesn't find them all
<siretart> mostly ;)
<ogra> ajmitch_, you dont have to care for the apps yet
<dholbach> if you have a look at https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList and https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxApplicationList you will see nice lists of them
<chmj> that means the libs must be done quickly, I suppose 
<ogra> just have a look at every app you upload and drop the upload if its c++
<dholbach> we will do a nice and clean job, but the sooner the better
<ogra> chmj, right
<ajmitch_> shouldn't take much more than a week ;)
<dholbach> now: what we will have to do is: applying patches, if stuff doesnt build - gladly debian provided us with loads of patches for that
<ogra> we agreed with doko to start on Tuesday with the transition
<chmj> UTC ?  
<dholbach> and changing the library package name
<dholbach> the binary package, not the source package
<dholbach> as you can see on BreezyToolchainTransition we will add a "c2"
<\sh> i see a lot of qt and kde stuff
<ogra> chmj, we didnt agree on a time, heh
<ogra> \sh, yep... 
<Riddell> \sh: that'll be the C++ :)
<dholbach> \sh: this is where Riddell steps in
<doko> chmj: we'll post the exact date
<\sh> as i heard on kde rumors ;) are telling that gcc 4 is in the moment a "nono"
<doko> and time ...
<ajmitch_> hello seb
<seb128> hi
<\sh> Riddell: am i right?
<minghua> dholbach: or remove c102 if it exists :-)
<ogra> \sh, for 3.4 ?
<seb128> meetings marathon? :)
<dholbach> minghua: exactly
<Riddell> \sh: I'm reliably told that we have a cvs version of gcc which inclues the fix for the KDE problems
<\sh> ogra: 4.x is far away ;
<dholbach> you can read the "naming conventions" on BreezyToolchainTransition
<\sh> Riddell: sounds great
<dholbach> we will start on CxxLibraryList and the implementation plan can be found on top
<dholbach> 1) mark the package in the list with your name
<ogra> if you find omething you dont understand, feel free to ask us, we will point you kindly to doko then ;)
<doko> Riddell: the upstream changelogs are included in the gcc binaries as well, so you can search for the bug number
<dholbach> 2) look for patches in either bugzilla.ubuntu.com (for main) or on UniverseCxxTransition for universe
<doko> ogra sees a flying toaster ...
<ogra> heh
* siretart is a bit confused. Will the default be gcc-3.4 or gcc-4.0?
<ajmitch_> 4.0
* ogra ducks
<dholbach> 3) For each library (for universe as well), create a bug report at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/, the subject/title must start with [CXX transition]  <source name>
<ogra> siretart, 4
<siretart> ok
<dholbach> and 4) attach the debdiff
<ogra> dholbach, do we write that down anywhere =
<ogra> ?
<dholbach> ogra: what exactly?
<ogra> your four points
<ajmitch_> ogra: all on the CxxLibraryList  page
<ogra> oh
<dholbach> yeah
* ogra blushes....
<dholbach> we won't have to change the build-depends (generally)
<ogra> tables are to fascinating to me....
<dholbach> since dpkg-shlideps will work it out for us
<dholbach> any questions?
<\sh> hmmm...
<ajmitch_> when will the compiler be switched?
<\sh> missing packages? 
<\sh> should we put them directly on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList
<ogra> ajmitch_, it already is
<\sh> ?
<dholbach> ajmitch_: we will start on tuesday
<ogra> \sh, sure... and note it in the comment
<ajmitch_> ok
<chmj> ajmitch_, its switched already 
<dholbach> everybody has to be sure to have build-essential of version 11 installed
<siretart> are there any special actions planned for java apps?
* ajmitch_ must have missed the switch..
<minghua> dholbach: I have a question about how the CxxLibraryList is made
<doko> ajmitch_: and all the details on the BreezyToolchainTransition page
<minghua> dholbach: I am looking at my (Debian) package scim, and see that scim-gtk2-immodule is listed
<dholbach> minghua: ask doko
<ogra> doko ? do we bug you or jbailey for java ?
<minghua> dholbach: okay
<doko> heh, jbailey should be fine :)
<ogra> ok
<Nafallo> dholbach: version 11 is to be found where?
<dholbach> \sh: what do you mean by missing packages?
* ajmitch_ enjoys bugging jbailey :)
<chmj> ogra, carefull, he don't like java 
<ogra> Nafallo, in breezy ?
<\sh> dholbach: like python-sip python-qt and stuff :)
<dholbach> Nafallo, ogra: will be uploaded by then
<ogra> chmj, _wo_ likes it ? 
<minghua> doko: scim-gtk2-immodule only contains gtk2 dynamic loaded module in /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.4.0/immodules, why is it on CxxLibraryList?
<ogra> who even
<Nafallo> dholbach: oki :-)
<chmj> sun, microsystems :p
<Nafallo> ogra: 10.1ubuntu1 atm :-)
<ogra> heh
<doko> Nafallo: wait, I'll upload test packages
<dholbach> we also have #ubuntu-java
<Nafallo> doko: oki :-)
<tritium> dholbach, build-essential=11 installed locally?  Can we not build in a breezy pbuilder chroot on a hoary install?
<dholbach> breezy pbuilder will be fine
<tritium> ok
<dholbach> if you should run into questions and they get answered somewhere... make sure you write it down on the wiki :-)
<ajmitch_> sure
<\sh> hmm.<mindnote>write howto work with two pbuilder enviroments</mindnote>
<ajmitch_> what else would I do with my weekend? ;)
<ogra> \sh, why two ?
<\sh> ogra: hoary and breezy...I like comparisons :)
<Nafallo> \sh: make that three and I'll be happy to :-).
<dholbach> we'll have BIG FUN and will do the job admirably :-)
<ogra> will we ?
<Simira> Nafallo: did you stop hanging out on #d-w?
<dholbach> of course!
<\sh> Nafallo: three? for what? breezy unstable, ah ok ;)
<ogra> YEAH !!
<Nafallo> Simira: yea, I've dropped out of debian for the moment ;-).
<ogra> lets have FUN !!
<Nafallo> \sh: warty-security? :-)
<dholbach> the attack plan is clear?
<ajmitch_> sure
<ajmitch_> ogra: bringing the beer? ;)
<chmj> dholbach, seems to be clear enough 
<\sh> Nafallo: oh...hmmm...well if i can configure two...i think we can extend it to three easily
<ogra> ajmitch_, VB ?
<Nafallo> dang. I thought I would sleep this week ;-).
<Nafallo> \sh: :-)
<\sh> dholbach: ETA?
<dholbach> Nafallo: we start next week :-)
<ajmitch_> ogra: that'll be fine..
<ajmitch_> jeff!
<dholbach> it will all depend on us (and the guys doing it in main)
<ogra> jbailey, to late
* minghua is going to set up a breezy chroot this weekend
<Nafallo> dholbach: oki :-)
<ogra> jbailey, you already have the task :)
<ajmitch_> dholbach: only a couple of days of work :)
<\sh> Riddell: amu will help with the kde stuff?
<jbailey> ogra: Joy.  What meeting is this? =)
<Riddell> \sh: dunno, better ask him
<\sh> ajmitch_: lucky one..u have a blade cluster somewhere? ,-) so we can use it for doing it all on one day ;)
<dholbach> as i see it, we have to thank http://bugs.debian.org/from:aj@andaco.de if we make it fast
<dholbach> jbailey: c++ transition motu briefing
<ajmitch_> \sh: heh, I wish :)
<ogra> jbailey, toolchain
<\sh> Riddell: ok..i'm on the kde site of the fun :) 
<ogra> jbailey, ... which includes java as well....
<jbailey> Ah, lovely. =)
<Nafallo> dholbach: sure. each person sends one mail right? ;-)
<Riddell> \sh: woo
<dholbach> Nafallo: :-)
<ogra> jbailey, so youre our designated java guru now....
<jbailey> Luvly.
<\sh> Riddell: have to talk to you anyways :) later ;)
<ogra> :)
<\sh> ok starting time tuesday cero hundred hours
<siretart> :)
* chmj write an email to aj@andaco.de about the 32 patches he already used
<dholbach> ok... if there are no more questions (thanks doko for your documentation), this will be the fastest meeting ever
<ajmitch_> yay! :)
<seb128> ;)
<ajmitch_> it's the 4th or 5th meeting this week? :)
<\sh> ay
<jani> cannot the work begin now and only after g++4.0 is in things compiled?
<\sh> one question more...
<jani> people can start downloading now :)
<dholbach> doko: we seem to want to start earlier
<\sh> how accurate must the source compile? warnings ok? 
<ogra> jani, sure... 
<siretart> dholbach: I guess after tuesday, there will be tons of questions ;)
<dholbach> siretart: sure :-)
<dholbach> \sh: same rules as always apply :-)
* chmj having ubuntu withdrawal symptoms
<\sh> dholbach: so...it has to work only ;)
<doko> test packages at: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/GCC-4.0/i386 ./
<doko> dholbach: we have to freeze the archive first
<ajmitch_> chmj: you're away from you ubuntu box?
<jani> is ubuntu bugzilla controllable from mail?
* ajmitch_ will have to queue his other packages to upload until it's unforzen
<chmj> ajmitch_, I'm on do$e XP :-( 
<ajmitch_> ouch :(
<ogra> doko, but nothing stops people to pull down their favorites already ;)
<dholbach> doko: test packages?
<doko> no, but no upload yet ...
<chmj> doko, gcc-4.0 test packages ?
<doko> dholbach: to make 4.0 the default
<Nafallo> ogra: my cronjobs are running ;-)
<dholbach> alright
<\sh> i should delete my 80gig hd on my rootserver...and prepare a breezy chroot ;)
<Nafallo> ogra: hmm, don't take it as I volunteer to do all the work myself though :-P
<sladen> doko: surely breezy is breakable
<sladen> doko: eg. dont' have to freeze
<ogra> Nafallo, oh, no ??
* ajmitch_ will start downloading now, a few packages might be here by next week :)
<ogra> Nafallo, i thought so..
<ogra> :)
<\sh> ajmitch_: 2400baud? ;)
<ogra> \sh, .nz
<ajmitch_> \sh: almost
<doko> sladen: we'll freeze all _applications_ depending on any libstdc++ dependent library
<Nafallo> :-)
<\sh> ajmitch_: oh sh*****
<dholbach> alright... if nobody complains, we can close this meeting, ok?
<ogra> yep
<Nafallo> yep
<\sh> aye
<minghua> yes
<\sh> #ubutntu-transition?
* ajmitch_ wants to go back to sleep :)
* ogra looks forward to have a 30min break before his next meeting
<Nafallo> ajmitch_: *s*
<siretart> \sh: good idea!
<ajmitch_> \sh: not *another* channel!
<dholbach> thanks everyone, i look forward to the UniverseCxxFixing! :-)
* ogra collects is coffeepot, milk sugar and the cups
<dholbach> \sh: #ubuntu-toolchain
<\sh> dholbach: sorry..yeah :)
<minghua> doko: Now I've read the CxxLibraryList page, so if I'm sure a binary package only contains loadable module, no name changes are necessary, correct?
<doko> minghua: yes, please add a comment ("loadable module only") to the list, I'll remove it then
<jani> ogra, is there a next meeting in 30 minutes?
<ogra> jani, for me, yes
<minghua> doko: got it, thanks
<jani> ogra, ok  I though on #u-m
<Nafallo> what was that deb URL doko had again? ;-)
<dholbach> <doko> test packages at: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/GCC-4.0/i386 ./
<Nafallo> ahha, only i386. thanx anyway :-P.
<doko> Nafallo: be patient ...
<chmj> heh
<Nafallo> doko: oki :-)
<chmj> night all 
<dholbach> bye chmj, sleep tight
<chmj> :-)
<koke> brb
<Amaranth> doh, i missed another one
<crimsun> oh don't worry, plenty of meetings to go around
<mdz> seems to be unused at the moment
<seb128> right
<kiko> okay
<dholbach> ok
<kiko> should we poke luis in?
<ogra> mdz, yep, we just finished :)
<kiko> ogra, how familiar are you with bugzilla?
<kiko> and bug triage in general?
<ogra> kiko, i use it regulary
<kiko> neat
<dholbach> me too
<kiko> cool
<jvw> (has this meeting an agenda?)
<ogra> kiko, i'm capable to track bugs... and to fix thm i guess
<kiko> essentially, we'd like to start a community QA process on our bugzilla
<ogra> bugzilla ? or malone ?
<kiko> there are a couple of problems we are facing
<kiko> bugzilla for now.
<mdz> jvw: <kiko> essentially, we'd like to start a community QA process on our bugzilla
<ogra> oh
<kiko> this is short-term stuff
<ogra> ok
<mdz> the idea is to involve a much larger group of people in helping out with bugs
<ogra> as the MOTU 
<kiko> first, UNCONFIRMED reports are going upwards (since we introduced them a while back)
<kiko> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/report.cgi?x_axis_field=bug_status&y_axis_field=product&z_axis_field=&query_format=report-table&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=Ubuntu&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&resolution=DUPLICATE&resolution=---&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1
<kiko> =&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&format=table&action=wrap&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=
<kiko> darn.
<kiko> one sec.
<kiko> anyway, as I was saying, we'd like to get more people involved in triaging bugs, with the goal of:
<kiko>   - reducing the number of UNCONFIRMED (marking stuff as resolved, upstream, needinfo, etc)
<kiko>   - identifying low-hanging fruit as good community contributions
<dholbach> kiko: your link would be   http://tinyurl.com/da494   if you wanted us to have a look
<kiko>   - weeding out the tough issues and bringing them to the lead developer's attentions when necessary
<kiko> thanks
<jvw> (it's password-protected :( )
<mdz> it's clear from a report on resolution that a huge number of the bugs that we receive don't actually require any developer action
<dholbach> jvw: you have to log in
<ogra> kiko, so like a first, second and third level suppport...
<ogra> staging...
<kiko> ogra, well, to start off with, community first-level, us second-level. but yes.
<mdz> of 7397 resolved bugs, only 3621 were resolved FIXED.  most of the rest ended up being INVALID, NOTABUG, NOTWARTY and WORKSFORME
<dholbach> i like the  LOWHANGINGFRUIT  idea
<dholbach> and UNIVERSE :-)
<kiko> dholbach, I do too, just don't ask me to add a status for it :)
<mdz> yes, and UNIVERSE
<mdz> so if we can get the community involved in walking over the UNCONFIRMED bugs
<kiko> mdz, dholbach: we can probably use keywords there.
<seb128> 3944 bugs, how come than we have #10000 ?
<mdz> and clearing away the chaff
<mdz> then the development team can focus on real bugs
<kiko> right.
<mdz> which should move to NEW
<kiko> mdz, you got mail, did you see that?
<dholbach> i want to start a GNOME team with seb128 and have bug triaging in the manifest
<mdz> kiko: no, no mail yet
<kiko> mdz, ogra: so my proposal is that we start by doing weekly bugdays on #ubuntu and #ubuntu-devel
<seb128> and we need a mailing list for the bugs
<kiko> mdz, May 11 16:58:35 anthem sm-mta[26967] : j4BJwQxn026965: to=<mdz@canonical.com>, ctladdr=<kiko@async.com.br> (5107/1004), delay=00:00:08, xdelay=00:00:08, mailer=relay, pri=120323, relay=frodo.hserus.net. [204.74.68.40] , dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (OK id=1DVxLl-000EMv-HR)
<ogra> kiko, sounds great
<dholbach> seb128: exactly, like ubuntu-gnome-bugs@
<kiko> a bugday is a publicized event that invites community people to trawl through bugzilla
<mdz> kiko: Subject: ?
<ogra> like louis does them 
<kiko> ogra, dholbach: we can give away selected merchandise every week to the top resolver.
* seb128 wants merchandises :p
<ogra> yay, thats great
<dholbach> sounds awesome
<luis_> probably top /new/ resolver
<seb128> :(
<mdz> luis_: you mean UNCONFIRMED, right?
<luis_> you'll get some addictive types who will close hundreds every week :)
<kiko> luis_, well, the criteria would need to be specified better. this is my proposal.
<luis_> mdz: I mean, in terms of giving out goodies, you'd want to make sure it doesn't go to the same guy every week
<ogra> seb128, find some straw MOTUs for that ;)
<mdz> luis_: oh
<seb128> luis_: don't look at me while saying that :)
<luis_> sure, I'm just nitpicking, sorry, I'll go back to lurking- you guys seem to so far be saying things very similar to what I'd be saying :)
<mdz> luis_: if someone wanst to consistently work hard on bugs, shouldn't we encourage that?
<luis_> mdz: oh, you should
<kiko> we should
<dholbach> i think we shouldnt focus on the merchandise :-)
<luis_> right
<luis_> don't rathole, I can email you my more detailed rationale later
<luis_> s/don't/we shouldn't/
<Amaranth> giving rewards is the _worst_ thing you can do
<ogra> dholbach, we should, its encouraging
<dholbach> #ubuntu-love started as such a project, but is horribly unmaintained
<mdz> oh wow, my bogofilter is all out of whack
<ogra> fix this bug to get a t-shirt
<dholbach> ogra: not in the meeting atm
<Amaranth> you'll get lots of people to try a little or try once but if they don't win they won't do it again
<dholbach> i like the idea though
<seb128> we need a http://bugzilla.gnome.org/reports/weekly-bug-summary.html like
<\sh> well...after dealing with gentoos bug-wranglers, it sounds really great to encourage community work. but who will check the results?
<Amaranth> and if they do win they'll want another reward to do it again
<kiko> Amaranth, that's not my experience.
<dholbach> seb128: looks great
<ogra> \sh, if we have 1st 2nd and 3rd level, that would be the next higher level who has to check
<seb128> dholbach: I like this stuff, and that's sane emulation :)
<kiko> mdz, something like "no more mr. nice guy"
* Amaranth spots seb128 as #2 bug reporter
<Amaranth> *cough*
<dholbach> do we want to use UbuntuLove for all this?
<\sh> ogra: so you mean, 1st level (the lowest community level) will resolve a bug (or he thinks he does), 2nd level check the patch or workaround, and 3rd level will approve?
<kiko> ubuntuLove?
<seb128> dholbach: I don't think so
<dholbach> the idea behind it was similar to GnomeLove
<ogra> \sh, nope, in this case 2nd should approve too
<dholbach> mailing lists, irc channel and gnome-love-days to gather all the willing folks together
<ogra> \sh, keep away as much as you can from 1st 
<seb128> dholbach: if we have people to handle both event, I would keep separete ones
<dholbach> the problem is: we have no people
<ogra> \sh, at least that was my directive at ish GmbH in the testbed, worked quite well
<dholbach> #ubuntu-love is in lurking mode and there was only one day yet
<kiko> ogra, dholbach: so plan of action would be: 0) accept the task of running these bugdays a) decide on weekly bugday b) write up the announcement c) decide where to post the announcement d) decide on criteria/if for prizes 
<kiko> perhaps also decide what sort of guidance we want to give people
<kiko> basically
<ogra> kiko, ok, no problem
<kiko> we want newbies to look at unconfirmed
<kiko> get a little bugbot IRC bot
<\sh> ogra: well...u see right now, that @NOC ;) it is not working..2nd level has to deal with 1st level support, just because the tools are not ready :(
<seb128> dunno if that's the same topic, be we need some mailing list for bug specific to teams (gnome-bugs, xfce-bugs, ...)
<ogra> \sh, i talked about the depatment i led ;) not the NOC
<kiko> seb128, it's not.
<\sh> ogra: i'm talking about the real world ,-)
<seb128> kiko: k
<kiko> ogra, when do you want to do them?
<ogra> \sh, its a thing of the rikght organization
<\sh> ogra: lets find a solution for ubuntu and forget about ish ;) 
<dholbach> weekly sounds good to me
<kiko> dholbach, ogra: on what day?
<dholbach> although we have to have people around which will guide them
<dholbach> s/although//
<kiko> yeah.
<ogra> kiko, hmm... a fixed date in the week... dunno, i'll check at #ubuntu-motu to make sure to have some 2nd level people around
<\sh> saturday to sunday night ;) always good 
<kiko> not a weekday?
<ogra> \sh, weekdays please
<dholbach> we want to have full-timezone-coverage :-)
* ogra tends to wednesday...
<dholbach> fine with me
<ogra> a bugday should be 24h ;)
<kiko> full timezone coverage is kinda crazy for the organizers.
<dholbach> ogra: sissy :-)
<seb128> weekday? hum...
<kiko> I don't think ogra and dholbach can manage the 24h
<\sh> and this is another matter ;)
<kiko> is there anyone in .au to cover for you guys?
<seb128> not easy to get people doing bug triage during their working time
<dholbach> kiko: MOTUs are in all the timezones :-)
<dholbach> .nz
<ogra> kiko, .nz
<kiko> who would that be?
<dholbach> ajmitch
<ogra> ajmitch
<kiko> does he know bugzilla?
<ogra> i think so
<kiko> okay
<dholbach> ah... he went to bed :-)
<ogra> yep
<kiko> ogra, dholbach: can you ping motu people, decide on a day and get back to me before friday so we can book a meeting to resolve the remaining issues?
<ogra> to many meetings today :)
<dholbach> kiko: absolutely
<kiko> this meeting would discuss specifics
<ogra> kiko, sure
<\sh> did u already established teams for the diff. projects?
<kiko> \sh?
<dholbach> \sh: not yet, it will be a long-term goal
<dholbach> TEAMS! :-)
<ogra> \sh, not more then we already have
<dholbach> and those consist of 1-3 people each :-)
<ogra> \sh, first we need ppl
<\sh> well, i don't know if you're familiar with gentoo herds 
<ogra> \sh, GO RECRUITING MAN !!
<\sh> ogra: let me explain please
<dholbach> \sh: fire away
<ogra> \sh, yay
<ogra> go on
<kiko> ogra, dholbach, mdz, seb128: any other thoughts?
<kiko> otherwise we can move on and I'll wait for your feedback
<\sh> ok gentoo is organized this way: bug is coming in...there is a group of "bug-wranglers" who will move the bugs to the special group (aka herd) lets say for gnome or kde
<ogra> kiko, not yet, sounds fine so far
<kiko> okay.
<\sh> so...every project like kde, gnome, ubuntuserver etc. pp. are teams and have to work on those bugs
<ogra> kiko, thats a thing with a internal evolution anyway, you cant spec out everything here
<\sh> problem is, as it states out here, the recruitement
<mdz> kiko: no, but my attention is divided
<ogra> \sh, correct
<seb128> \sh: the group is not an issue, every package has a QA contact
<\sh> working ppl are missing and it's hard to cover this
<ogra> \sh, so we currently have to care for everything, like we do anyway...
<\sh> seb128: thats right, but most of the time it's individual
<dholbach> kiko: i think you can move on
<ogra> \sh, but we already have a team.... its just not divided yet...the more people we have the more it will spilt up...
<seb128> \sh: that doesn't matter, you can set the QA to a mailing list
<ogra> but facing reality, the team thing is a longterm shot
<kiko> thanks
<\sh> seb128: this we should do :)
<ogra> kiko, thanks for the meeting :)
<seb128> \sh: that was I was saying before and that's what is planned
<kiko> thanks to you guys
<kiko> ping me till friday
<seb128> thank you kiko 
<dholbach> thanks kiko
<dholbach> will do
<kiko> enjoy
<dholbach> :-)
<\sh> well...and if you have the teams ready, and you have the people..the next problem will be the fluctuation of those people.
<\sh> this was the result at gentoo :(
<ogra> \sh, we'll handle it, dont worry
<dholbach> the nice atmosphere will hopefully keep people
<luis_> the fluctuation you handle by just recruiting regularly
<luis_> and by counting on the super-volunteers
<ogra> yeah
<luis_> 90 of 100 who show will never return
<zul> there is always fluctuation in open source projects
<luis_> of the remaining ten, only 1 or 2 will return for more than a handful of times
<luis_> <shrug>
<luis_> doesn't matter
<luis_> just find a new 100 :)
<seb128> "just"
<ogra> luis_, i think its just a matter of being loud enough :)
<zul> or obsessive developer
<luis_> seb128: I did it for years, it isn't that hard ;)
<seb128> he he
<luis_> (though, granted, it does need someone with patience/persistence... I've slacked in the past year or two :/
<ogra> luis_, you dnot do it anymore ? 
<\sh> well...for ubuntu the situation is quite different
<luis_> ogra: no, not really, I've just been too busy with my job and stuff
<\sh> on one hand, you have a company behind you, who could hire ppl on a contract basis
<luis_> I might restart them for gnome, dunno
<ogra> luis_, oh, i thought that was covered in your job too
<\sh> on the other hand u need the "outsiders", the community to do most of the stuff ;)
<luis_> ogra: well, not towards the end, no :/
<luis_> ogra: I was 'purely' a manager towards the end of my novell career
<ogra> luis_, ah, yes, the end...
<seb128> dholbach: http://tinyurl.com/9297d
<\sh> luis_: before or after suse?
<luis_> \sh: hrm, started before suse, really
<luis_> with the XD2 push, I guess... I mean, i still did mostly QA for xd2, but no community QA, since it wasn't a released product
<ogra> luis_, i know the feeling very good... ask \sh, we were colleagues.. i needed to go to not take a sling...
<luis_> hehe
<dholbach> seb128: wow
<\sh> xd? ximian?
<luis_> yes
<luis_> seb128: oh, nice
* luis_ looks forward to getting 2.20 at b.g.o, by way of bkor :)
<\sh> ogra: well...I'll have one more year, then I#m leaving this company ;)
<luis_> \sh: where are you now?
<\sh> ogra: after all, better then to work for lycos ;)
<ogra> \sh, if they didnt cannibalize themselves then :)
<\sh> luis_: I'm working at ISH GmbH, a german cable tv company...
<luis_> ah.
<dholbach> to which big US company does it belong again?
<\sh> ogra: peter was really strange towards me...
<\sh> dholbach: it was callahan
<\sh> (sp?)
<ogra> dholbach, it was callahan...
<\sh> dholbach: now it's a bank consortium, and from summer on it will be IESY ;)
<\sh> (lets hope)
<dholbach> oh nice
<\sh> ogra: right now, peter comes down to ISP/DTV people and ask them for engineering stuff ;)
* ogra wonders why ppl call the ubuntu release names strange.... they should look at german companys...
<ogra> heh
<\sh> ogra: so i said today to him: why don't u ask klaus? he said: well, it's good to know, that we have people who can do this job, too ;)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> \sh, they will offer you my job then ;)
<\sh> ogra: no :) 
<ogra> sure
<\sh> ogra: forget it...I'm waiting what will happen...i think klaus will leave (if not now, then later)
<ogra> he will
<\sh> i don't really know what's going on upstairs, but all of the engineers (alfred, ingo etc.) are looking for something else...if it's in another department of ish or new companies
<\sh> anyways OT ;)
<ogra> i think i started a lot of stuff when i left...
<ogra> yep true
<ogra> s/started/unleashed
<\sh> hehe..amaranth is right ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-05-20
<bradb> MOTU Malone meeting in 2 mins!
<bradb> ding ding ding!
<bradb> right, who's here then?
<dholbach> woohoo!"
<robitaille> dong dong dong
<bradb> (that's participating in the Malone MOTU meeting)
<dholbach> hey BjornT 
<BjornT> hi
<ogra> hi
<ogra> robitaille, hey
<bradb> ogra, robitaille, BjornT, dholbach. who else is in for this meeting?
* Treenaks shows up
<dholbach> shall we use http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaloneUniverseWishList for a general overview?
<bradb> dholbach: that's what i'm looking at right now
<bradb> right, let's get started then
<bradb> there are at least two things on the agenda
<bradb> 1. a report from the field (i.e. you guys, users of Malone)
<bradb> 2. a plan forward to try to give us an idea of the most critical issues that need solving soonest
<bradb> are there other things you guys want to add?
<dholbach> no... fine with me
<ajmitch_> morning
<dholbach> hey ajmitch_ 
<bradb> ok...we'll try and keep this down to half an hour or less. all we need is enough to move forward for the next week or two, based on what's making it hurt the most for you guys
<bradb> so, #1 then, who wants to give me a summary of MOTU's experience on malone up to now? :)
<bradb> how's it been going? have you been using it a lot?
<bradb> is anyone saying they absolutely can /not/ use Malone right now on the MOTU team, because feature XYZ is missing?
<herve> I've used it two weeks ago
<dholbach> some "views" on bugs dont work
<herve> I managed to go throught it
<bradb> seb128!
<dholbach> thanks seb128 
<seb128> hi
<herve> but found several traps
<bradb> salut
<seb128> sorry I've forgotten
<herve> hi seb128 
<seb128> so, what's up? :)
<dholbach> all the "views" on the bug list show the same list
<ogra> bradb, searching in distribution bugs doesnt work, thats one of the most essential things i think
<bradb> 8 pages of new or accepted bugs, it looks like...good to see that some people are using it then...
<bradb> ogra: yep, i'm fixing that right this minute :)
<ogra> yeah :)
<dholbach> namely   unassigned . my todo list . critical  . submitted by me  
<bradb> huge cleanup/fixing
<bradb> dholbach: yep, i'm fixing those links right now too
<seb128> dholbach: that uses the search, no?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> looks like
<bradb> yeah
<herve> bradb, one of the main problem to me, is you have to click many times to navigate throught malone
<bradb> so don't worry about that. that'll be done as soon as i finish it. it's my top priority right now.
<bradb> wait, one sec.
<bradb> have you guys got your team all setup properly now?
<dholbach> "back to list" would be great, in accordance to what herve said
<dholbach> making teams isnt your "resort", bradb, right?
<bradb> with everybody in the team that needs to be in the team and a sane email address to which notifications for the team will be sent?
<ogra> nope, its ours...
<dholbach> ogra: launchpad-wise of course
<dholbach> ogra: interface-wise
<ogra> sure, but i admit i was lazy and dint add everyone to the MOTU team
<bradb> if they haven't whined, perhaps it doesn't matter
<ogra> heh
<ogra> it does, for us ;)
<bradb> i wonder if you guys want a mailing list specific to universe bugs
<dholbach> how can i set a mail adress for a team?
<bradb> which could then of course be the email of the team in Malone
<herve> that's ubuntu-users, no? :-)
<ogra> herve, no, thats the past ;)
<bradb> herve: if it isn't, then that should be the email address of the team...but eh, you probably don't want that. :)
<bradb> if it *is*, i meant
<seb128> is this meeting a random suggestion mixed one? or is that a plan or something?
<dholbach> i can't see the mail adress thingie for a team
<bradb> seb128: 
<bradb> [16:02]  <bradb> 1. a report from the field (i.e. you guys, users of Malone)
<bradb> [16:03]  <bradb> 2. a plan forward to try to give us an idea of the most critical issues that need solving soonest
<dholbach> seb128: we currently name the most annoying things
<seb128> k
<bradb> the first thing i wanted to focus on was talking about how you're using Malone right now, including making sure you're setup correctly re: the MOTU team in Malone
<bradb> dholbach, ogra: do you want to have a mailing list setup specifically for universe bugs? do you need one?
<dholbach> i used it to assign bugs to teams, closed some fixed bugs
<seb128> - no way to get the lists of bug from the list of comments
<seb128> - no way to edit the bug from the comments
<seb128> - no way to comment when editing the bug
<seb128> - no way to assign a bug when submitting it
<seb128> that's my list :)
<ogra> i guess it would be best now to have a ML
<dholbach> jdub has already planned some lists we will need
<ogra> since we cant set up this list in malone itself for a team...
<bradb> dholbach: was an MOTU bug list one of them?
<dholbach> seb128: did he mention ubuntu-bugs-universe?
<bradb> ogra: Malone's not mailman, so no, you can't :)
<ogra> then we'll need a list..
<bradb> ogra: you can set the email of the team though
<dholbach> bradb: where?
<ogra> not on "edit team details"
<dholbach> bradb: i have the gnome team's page open right now
<bradb> it might be something the owner has to do
<dholbach> i am the owner
<ogra> i have the MOTU page open, there is no field for email (i'm the owner)
<seb128> dholbach: nop, but was not an easy discussion :)
<bradb> dholbach: it's not available to you in edit team details/
<ogra> nope
<dholbach> +addmail and +addemail didnt work, i tried that ;-)
<ogra> heh
<bradb> ugh
<bradb> i'll look into this while the meeting continues
<ogra> bradb, but launchpad has all our mailadresses....
<bradb> sure
<bradb> there's a bit of a problem here to getting you guys useful notifications too...
<ogra> we shuldnt need a team mailadress, even if its not mailman, it coud send to all members of the team
<bradb> we need all the MOTU source packages to have the MOTU team set as maintainers, ATM :/
<ogra> ugh
<ogra> 15000 packages....
<dholbach> emails! :-)
<seb128> bradb: how do we set the QA and assigned for a package?
<ogra> can't we bounty someone to enter them all ?
<ogra> thats a lot of typing and clicking :)
<bradb> ogra: i'll make a note to talk to mark about this, so you guys can be properly setup to get sane notifications sent to an appropriate email address (or, possibly, addresses)
<dholbach> bradb: multiple adresses would be cool
<bradb> anything else we need to cover about the logistics of you guys using Malone?
<dholbach> because we will have overlapping subsets of packages
<bradb> (for point #1...before we get into the part about where malone sucks :)
<bradb> anyone having problems logging in or getting their account sorted?
<tseng|work> dude.. malone is totally shithouse
<bradb> anyone here who's meant to use malone but hasn't yet?
<tseng|work> (jk :P)
<dholbach> tseng|work: calm yourself a bit
<dholbach> for 43 people in here... it's a bit calm
<bradb> ok, let's move on then :)
<Treenaks> bradb: I haven't used it yet.. haven't had time
<bradb> let's go through the biggest pains you guys are experiencing with Malone. i need enough feedback to guide BjornT and me for the next week or two, but no more
<ogra> bradb, err, the bounty thing was a joke...
<bradb> Treenaks: will you try it out this week perhaps?
<seb128> bradb: is there any meeting scheduled about main maintainers/malone?
<bradb> ogra: i know :)
<Treenaks> bradb: uh, I could make some time this weekend
<ogra> phew
<bradb> ogra: talking to sabdfl about it wasn't a joke though :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> ok
<bradb> we really need to get that sorted for you guys, or you won't even get bug notifications
<bradb> in some way shape or form
<dholbach> the search/assigned thing is the most important i think, a "back to list" would be VERY handy, that's how i feel
<ogra> cant you just script the import of a packagelist ?
<bradb> seb128: not currently, but you can vent here :)
* ajmitch_ hasn't used malone enough (assigning/entering) to complain any further than has been done ;)
<bradb> ogra: they're already doing that, afaik
<seb128> bradb: yeah, but that's too noisy I think :)
<ogra> ah, ok
<seb128> bradb: and we probably don't have the same concern as universe guys
<bradb> ajmitch_: will you make a point of giving it a shot over the next week or so a bit?
<dholbach> seb128: tell us about your worries... :-)
<dholbach> seb128: you will be customer #1 for it
* bradb is meaning to get back to seb128's list in one sec :)
<seb128> yeah, I know ... but don't want to grab the focus
<ajmitch_> bradb: yes, I'll try & squeeze it in there
<ogra> lol
<seb128> that's a motu meeting
<tseng|work> i noticed the other day when i was not logged in and tried to comment, then was told to log in... crash
<seb128> not a desktop team one
<herve> no, that's a malone meeting?
<tseng|work> ill try to verify that
<dholbach> seb128: you're too gracious :-)
<bradb> good. /me makes a point of bugging Treenaks and ajmitch_ at the next meeting about what they like and don't like about Malone.
<Treenaks> OK :)
* ajmitch_ isn't meant to be at this meeting, meant to be at work at the moment! :)
<dholbach> Treenaks, ajmitch_: you're scratchpad is ready: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaloneUniverseWishList
<bradb> seb128: you're the only one who's given specific feedback so far in this meeting about what sucks about Malone?
<tseng|work> ok.. searching for "f-spot" on the ubuntu distro bugs page is not working also
<tseng|work> sorry im not sure what are already "known issues"
<ogra> thats one
<seb128> bradb: dunno, I've not really read everything
<seb128> I've completed my list
<seb128> I've 6 points now :)
<bradb> tseng|work: pretty much everything people tell me are problems we know about. :) the key is, what are the things /most/ hindering you guys?
<seb128> let me know when that's time for that
<herve> bradb, searching!
<tseng|work> well going to search there and having nothing happen
<herve> by package, people, status...
<tseng|work> and clicking advanced and having it fail..
<bradb> herve: i already mentioned that i'm fixing that as we speak
<tseng|work> thats pretty suck, i sthere osmewhere I can hav ea wokring saerch?
<herve> bradb, you mean advanced search like "what are all my pending upload bugs?" ?
<tseng|work> gr lag
<herve> tseng|work, brain lag? :-)
<bradb> herve: yeah, my next merge is what will fix that.
<herve> rock!
<dholbach> having 100 bugs/tasks per page would be great :-)
<tseng|work> client lag, I cant see what im typing
* herve stops whining for tonight :-
<bradb> let's keep focussed here dudes. if noone has any specific problems to report then i'll throw the mic over to seb128 and see what's on his mind.
<bradb> in 3
<bradb> 2
<tseng|work> well I think we are saying, if I cant search or get a page of my own bugs
<herve> bradb, 
<tseng|work> I'll never keep track of them
<herve> subscribing oneself easily 
<dholbach> tseng|work: searching will be fixed asap
<seb128> should I copy my list here? :)
<herve> without having to type its name each time
<tseng|work> ok.
<bradb> tseng|work: dude, i've already addressed that point :) let's keep moving forward here.
<herve> and being also to remove too
<seb128> one sec, I just sort it
<bradb> cool
<bradb> herve: yes, good point
<bradb> herve: but is it really critical? probably not.
<herve> bradb, time wasting? ok I'm picky :-)
<dholbach> bradb: what do you think about a "back to list" link?
<herve> navigation would be more important
<bradb> i mean, you're the users, you tell me, but it doesn't seem to me that having to type one's name to sub to a bug is a critical issue for the time being, IMHO
<herve> like getting from a report back to the list
<bradb> herve: yes, absolutely. the nav sucks.
<herve> another confusing thing
<bradb> herve: ok, on that point (we'll get to you seb128...very soon.. :)
<herve> there are bugs and tasks with different numbers
<bradb> herve: YES!
<herve> someone said #123
<herve> and I was searching for non existent bug 123 :-) 
<bradb> i really, really, really need to convince sabdfl that virtually every Malone user has screamed about the problem of having two IDs for what the user thinks is the same thing
<bradb> thus far, i've not been permitted to fix that in the way that i want, which is to completely hide the "task" ID altogether
<bradb> herve: i'm glad you mention this though, because i log all IRC conversation, so it gives me more ammo for the sab :)
<bradb> ok, so one thing
<bradb> interesting that nobody's mentioned the assigned report yet
<bradb> anyone even using that?
<herve> don't remember it
<bradb> that was about to be the next thing i set in my sights to fix, but it doesn't seem to be the thing users currently complain much about, because nobody even cares enough to use it, apparently
<koke> bradb: I've tried
<dholbach> <dholbach> all the "views" on the bug list show the same list    ---   <dholbach> namely   unassigned . my todo list . critical  . submitted by me  
<\sh> g'evening
<koke> but until yesterday it crashed with a system error
<dholbach> and point 23 on the wiki page:  "https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/assigned?name=<ID> seems broken atm"
<bradb> dholbach: that's part of the searching, and as i noted earlier, i'm fixing those links :)
<dholbach> i thought you were talking about this, when you said "assigned report"
<bradb> yes, i think SteveA's done a fix to fix that bug in the assigned report
<dholbach> i've tried to use it
<dholbach> it worked at UDU
<herve> bradb, a wishlist: from any page, click the login link, log in, then you get redirected to the previous page
<dholbach> herve++
<ogra> yeah
<dholbach> but that's part of "navigation", i presume?
<bradb> dholbach: that link worked for me just now
<herve> dholbach, navigation is a very global term
<herve> I would mean the breadcrumbs too
<dholbach> bradb: it gave me system errors
<dholbach> now it works again
<bradb> herve: yep, very good point there too...the login has gotten quite a bit better lately (which you might have noticed if using LP a lot, but maybe not if you only use it a bit), but definitely has a bit of a way to go yet to work the way most people expect
<dholbach> herve: i know, but bradb acknowledged that "navigation sucks" (his words)
<bradb> yes, my words :)
<koke> bradb: I have 9 things in a tomboy note about disturbing behaviours I've observed since 2 days ago
<koke> but, I think most are not *high* priority items
<seb128> let's focus on high priority?
<bradb> if they're minor things, you can email them to me: brad.bollenbach@ubuntu.com.
<seb128> malone needs to be usuable soon
<seb128> not to have a ton of cool features
<ogra> fonts !
<ogra> *g*
<seb128> :(
<herve> bradb, I checked my assigned page, the links seem to be some javascript... you should get tortured for that!! :-)
<koke> seb128: most are usability things but not as urgent as "search"
<koke> :D
<dholbach> seb128: go ahead with your list
<bradb> i've taken notes of what you guys have said so far...does anyone have any other high priority items that we should discuss right now, or should i hand the mic to seb128?
<bradb> ok, seb128, go for it
<seb128> 1- no way to comment on the bug when you edit it
<seb128> 2- clicking on bug from the list should open the bug description, not the bug edition
<seb128> 3- no way to go from the comments to the bug edition?
<seb128> 4- no way to go from the comments to the list of bugs?
<seb128> 5- no way to assign a bug when submitting it
<seb128> 6- don't send mail to the guy doing the change
<seb128> 7- custom lists of bugs
<koke> 2++ :)
<ogra> yep
<bradb> seven points...gimme a minute to copy paste and absorb :)
<seb128> let's take that by order maybe?
<koke> I had it as "- Bug list pointing to bugs, not tasks (or more info in tasks page)"
<bradb> seb128: let's start by classifying them. we'll ignore for the moment the non-high-priority items, but i'll make note of them all the same, of course.
<bradb> so #1
<bradb> medium-highish priority
<bradb> because it's a pain to do an edit and then go back to the bug page to add a comment explaining your change
<seb128> I've classed them by priority from my point 
<seb128> editing and commenting are the same action
<seb128> when you change the properties of a bug you want to explain why
<bradb> absolutely
<tseng|work> when changing state it should be required
<ogra> yep
<tseng|work> you cant close a bug w/o a comment
<dholbach> i think it won't overtax users to have all of this on one page :-)
<bradb> mpt might be doing some work on this at the moment, in trying to improve the whole too-many-clicks between bug and task pages, but i'll have to double check with him, and he's probably sleeping atm
<seb128> k
<bradb> ok, so, we agree #1 is fairly high priority, for both bug info and task info, right?
<seb128> correct
<ogra> ++
<bradb> ok, noted. #2 now.
<bradb> hm
<seb128> you want to view the comments before acting
<seb128> for sure
<seb128> 90% of the time
<bradb> seb128: do you though? given that the description is editable.
<seb128> yep
<bradb> why?
<seb128> because you want to see *all* the informations
<seb128> before judging
<bradb> we're intending for comments only to add information to explaining what the problem is. the ideal place to get the sum total of useful info about the bug should be the description, no?
<seb128> hum
<seb128> you need to fix people so
<seb128> nobody update the description atm
<seb128> and that's extra work for the maintainers
<tseng|work> bradb ever looked at our/other distros bugzilla? im sure you have, there is a ton of debugging info going on
<bradb> seb128: is it less work to read all the comments instead every time you look at the bug report? :)
<tseng|work> or more info that wasnt (but should have been) in the summary
<seb128> bradb: for sure yes
<seb128> I just read the current comment
<seb128> and I can scroll back without any action
<seb128> to know everything about the bug
<herve> bradb, one thing before I leave, I can't mark bugs as duplicate
<herve> must go now, bye
<bradb> heh, not that he's here anymore, but dups i've already got in SteveA's code review queue
<bradb> ok, so back to point #2
<seb128> atm the description is not even usuable
<seb128> it eats all the CRLF
<seb128> so that's a mess
<seb128> which doesn't help to work from the edit page :)
<\sh> well, for me, the status of malone is more a plain ticketing system like RT, then a bug maintaining tool. 
<koke> yep, white-space: pre now! :)
<bradb> seb128: it's only like that on the task page (it should look ok on the bug page), but stub might have fixed that.
<bradb> he ported the bugfix from Zope 3 to our codebase last week to fix that, i think, but i'll have to double check
* bradb makes a note
<seb128> bradb: task page == edit, bug page == comments?
<bradb> yeah
<seb128> right
<dholbach> erm... why did the mail with my changes go to dilys@muse.19inch.net?
<seb128> but you go on the task page from the list
<seb128> which has the issue
<bradb> dholbach: it's our IRC bot
<dholbach> oh cool
<dholbach> in which channel is it?
<seb128> bradb: how do I edit the bug description?
<bradb> seb128: so you'd prefer to, when looking the list of tasks, have to always do a second click to get to the page where you can change assignee, status, triage, etc?
<seb128> yep
<bradb> seb128: click on Edit Bug Details from the bug page
<seb128> correct
<bradb> ok
<seb128> I want to read the comments before acting
<seb128> ie: there is a new bug
<seb128> the guy has opened it
<seb128> and put 2 comments then
<seb128> I want to know about the comments first
<ogra> makes sense
<bradb> sure
<bradb> i'm a little worried about the new user being very confusing by the bug page, particularly the task list, but...
<\sh> bradb: can u explain again, why the assigned maintainer should be able to edit the original bug description? 
<seb128> any way to make 2 modes maybe?
<koke> I'd like a page with edit+comments
<seb128> for people opening bug or for people working?
<koke> I really like the bugzilla approach
<bradb> \sh: to make it more accurate and useful than the first comment that was added to the bug
<bradb> seb128: hmm...
<bradb> 2 modes sounds a bit complicated (not just to implement, but i mean to use it seems like it might be a bit complicated)
<\sh> bradb: so, thinking about workflow in a customer care center...the customer is calling in, and giving a problem description. this description is fixed forever. the assigned supporter will have to comment on the problem not to edit the first description of the problem
<bradb> seb128: should we just say that landing on the bug page for now is an appropriate and workable solution to #2 for now?
<bradb> \sh: that's not how it works in Malone :)
<seb128> bradb: yep
<bradb> ok, fair enough, noted. #3 then.
<bradb> what does #3 mean exactly?
<seb128> just a note
<\sh> bradb: thats right, and this is whats confusing. cause working the whole time with ticketing systems and bugzilla, you are used to the "question" "response" system
<seb128> how do I edit the bug description ?
<\sh> seb128: "edit bug details"
<dholbach> \sh: and then?
<bradb> [16:53]  <bradb> seb128: click on Edit Bug Details from the bug page
<\sh> dholbach: and then what? ,-)
<seb128> ups, sorry, I though it was related to the task/bug page
<dholbach> ah yes, yes
<seb128> not easy to find
<seb128> going to the corner list
<LarstiQ> \sh: being able to concentrate the current state of the bug is nice too however
* dholbach nods
<bradb> seb128: the description is something on the bug as a whole (rather than related to fixing the bug in a specific place), so it's a bug page thing, not a task page thing.
<LarstiQ> the dbs has some bugs with a _lot_ of comments, you then have to read everything to understand what is going on
<bradb> seb128: is #3 something that needs to be noted then or not? if so, i'll need to get more info from you on what the problem there is, specifically as you've worded it in #3.
<\sh> LarstiQ: but if you edit the first "problem description" you are changing the original data of the reporter.
<seb128> bradb: no, that's just the "edit bug" not discovrable on the page
<seb128> I've not figured how to go from bug to task 
<bradb> \sh: the original data of the reporter is also the first comment on the bug :)
<LarstiQ> \sh: with edit history, I don't experience that as much of a problem
<bradb> seb128: can you show me the url at which point you're lost, and where you're trying to get to when looking at that URL?
<\sh> bradb: it doesn't show up to me like a comment when I'm on the "bug description and discussion" page
<koke> bradb: how can I assign a bug to me, from the bug page??
<seb128> bradb: k
<bradb> \sh: yes it does :)
<\sh> seb128: when you're on "bug description and discussion" page click on the list with "upstream/package" etc.
<bradb> \sh: it's the first comment on the bug, at the bottom of the page.
<seb128> bradb: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/543
<seb128> bradb: I want to close the bug, where do I click?
<seb128> bradb: hum rather, I want the tasks for the bug
<bradb> seb128: ok, so keep in mind that a bug can exist in many places
<bradb> exactly
<\sh> bradb: u see, i'm lost...i read the first description as the first entry..then I have the newest comments, and then the original description again as comment...
<bradb> so, you want to close it in your neck of the woods
<bradb> seb128: but this is /precisely/ what i was saying earlier about my concern with having people land on the bug page :) that they'd be confused by the task listing.
<bradb> seb128: but yeah, you just click on your task in the task listing
<\sh> bradb: change it from a static list with link to a small table with all data and form widgets to change...
<dholbach> when i try to click on "ubuntu verbiste" from mentioned page, i get a "404" error
<seb128> bradb: I'm probably stupid, but I don't find any task on this page?
<seb128> ups
<seb128> that's the first line
<bradb> dholbach: that's a hint to me to make that clicking do what the user expects :) when you click on the row itself (/not/ the underlined link) it'll do what you expect.
<seb128> nm
<\sh> bradb: have a look on "request tracker" how they are handling requests and tasks (http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/)
<bradb> seb128: no, it really /is/ that confusing, unfortunately :/
<seb128> I'm too used to bugzilla, I was taking that as the bug summary
<dholbach> bradb: ok
<BjornT> bradb: i think the problem is that the bug page and the task page are too decoupled, it might be a good idea to make it easier to change things from the bug page
<bradb> \sh: "tasks" in RT are almost surely an entirely different thing than the semantics in Malone.
<bradb> BjornT: yep, already did that once and reverse --replay'd the patch once too :)
<\sh> bradb: well...I mean the appearance...to change the task status e.g.
<bradb> we haven't been able to aggregate that all into one page without overwhelming the user with information
<\sh> changing assignment etc.
<seb128> bradb: the current system is not that bad, I've not figured because there is only one task for the bug
<\sh> bradb: and remove the first bug description from the task page
<seb128> bradb: with 2 tasks that would be clear :)
* ajmitch_ returns
<bradb> seb128: two tasks will be very common
<seb128> yeah, just go to the next point
<seb128> this one is my bad
<BjornT> bradb: well we wouldn't have to merge the two pages entirely, for example, in the task listing, instead of just showing the values, they could be editable
<bradb> BjornT: yep, that's the change i made :)
<bradb> #4
<seb128> that would rock
<bradb> seb128: except it is somewhat overwhelming
<bradb> seb128: it's hard to understand what you're supposed to be editing, why you're allowed to edit this certain thing in the page, and what to do about all this information being shown to you at once.
<BjornT> bradb: ouch... hmm, i guess we'll have to write down the outcome of this discussion to really show that the current approach is confusing for the users
<bradb> BjornT: i'm noting it all, in the hopes that i'll finally be able to sell sabdfl on getting rid of "tasks" at the level of the web UI. :)
<bradb> seb128: so, for #4...
<seb128> bradb: I'm happy to click on a task to edit them as far as I can put a comment too here 
<seb128> let's go to #4
<bradb> all you're saying is you want the kind of link that's already on the task page, but for the bug page as well, right?
<seb128> right
<bradb> seb128: ok...the only problem is to figure out where to put that. if you imagine a bug that exists in 4 different places...
<bradb> seb128: where do i put the link in the bug page, and where does it go to? bugs on what?
<seb128> hum
<bradb> i don't want to get carried away in discussing implementation details at the moment, but i'm looking for ideas on this one :)
<bradb> maybe mpt, our UI guy, is the one i should ask on this.
<seb128> on the bottom of the page?
<bradb> seb128: the key question is though then, where does that link go? keep in mind that you might be looking at a bug that exists upstream and in ubuntu, kubuntu and debian
<bradb> which bug list does the link take you to?
<seb128> have you looked on bugzilla?
<seb128> you have all these links on the bottom with your custom lists
<seb128> atm I've "NEW  NOTUPSTREAM  ...."
<seb128> but I guess that's a "nice to have/low priority"
<bradb> i'm familiar with that
<bradb> you're point #4 said to go "to the list of bugs" though
<bradb> which list of bugs?
<seb128> my bugs
<bradb> ah, ok
<koke> seb128: I guess it should be the last query
<bradb> seems like a low priority indeed though, one way or the other
<\sh> bradb: put it in the middle between the "users preferences" and "logout" 
<\sh> at top of the page
<koke> I have 2 (maybe more) items medium-high priority
<bradb> koke: ok, one sec
<seb128> bradb: dunno, it annoyed me while working on some bugs to other day
<seb128> bradb: I think I've opened a bug directly from a mail
<seb128> and figured than I had no way to go to my list of bugs from here
<seb128> without going back to the start page of malone
<seb128> and clicking
<bradb> ok
<bradb> noted
<bradb> one last quick q then seb128 
<seb128> BTW low priority
<bradb> then we'll go onto koke's points
<bradb> seb128: how often do you file and assign a bug at the same time. #5 may be medium-highish priority, or may not.
<koke> one sec
<thom> btw, seb's point #7 is totally critical to me
<seb128> bradb: depending on how good is the default assignement :)
<bradb> it's doable already, other than the fact that the search had broken (but again, that's my next merge that lands)
<bradb> thom: just use bookmarks
<bradb> seb128: there is no default assignment at the moment in Malone
<seb128> yeah, dunno if you replied before
<bradb> thom: all bug searches are GETs
<seb128> who is the QA/assigned for a package
<seb128> ie: who gets the mails?
<seb128> and how to set that?
<thom> bradb: meh; that totally breaks workflow
<thom> anyway, if there's a hack it's not so bad for the short term
<koke> bradb: btw, the "add upstream task..." is working??
<bradb> koke: has for a long time (except for a brief period of breakage a couple months ago, i think).
<koke> bradb: ok, then how it works???
<koke> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/624/+upstreamtask
<bradb> seb128: there is no default assignee. the sourcepackage maintainer gets the emails. i don't know offhand if that's editable (it's part of soyuz if it is)
<seb128> bradb: hum?
<seb128> "sourcepackage"?
<seb128> ie: the debian guy?
<\sh> seb128: this is distro task
<seb128> right
<seb128> so who is the "sourcepackage maintainer" for gnome-panel?
<\sh> seb128: upstream task the real upstream maintainer ;)
<seb128> how is that determinated?
<ogra> urgh... determined from the Maintainer: field ?
<seb128> that doesn't work
<dholbach> nice :-)
<seb128> we have the Debian fields
<dholbach> the debian guys will slaughter us :-)
<ogra> (regard the questionmark)
<seb128> bad question, change question
<seb128> NOW
<dholbach> must be team based
<seb128> dholbach: still, need a way to set it
<dholbach> ubuntu-team-based (once we have them)
<\sh> confused now ;)
<seb128> atm I don't receive any feedback of malone for bugs on my packages
<dholbach> atm it's by-hand assigning, but soyuz will fix it, once it's there, right?
<seb128> how do I fix that?
<seb128> how soyuz knows what packages are mine?
<seb128> or for what package I'm the QA member rather
<dholbach> did bradb collapse?
* \sh is collapsing after 14h of work ;)
<seb128> unexpected question, segmentation fault
<thom> i think he's gone to buy lots and lots of coffee :P
* bradb_ hates X-Chat with a raging passion
* dholbach comforts bradb_ a bit
<seb128> open a malone bug on it
<\sh> bradb_: konversation is working ;)
<ogra> bah
<seb128> a random guy will maybe get a mail about that :p
<\sh> <trollmode/> ;)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> right now, we're talking about 3 different things at the same time ;)
<dholbach> bradb_: we were discussing the sourcepackage maintainer concept
<dholbach> animatedly
<seb128> k, let's fix that
<seb128> my question is simple
<seb128> I get all the bug concerning gnome-panel atm for ubuntu
<bradb_> ok, sorry, i was just catching up with BjornT 
<seb128> how is that going to work for malone?
<\sh> upstream task == source package && distro task ==  what have to be done for ubuntu, kubuntu, debian, gentoo etc.pp 
<seb128> and apply that for dunno ... 100 packages
<\sh> is there a way to link upstream tasks of malone together with doap products?
<seb128> one topic at the time please :)
<bradb_> seb128: i mentioned having made a note earlier to have to talk to mark about how we're going to get that done. not sure at the moment how he wants to solve that.
<\sh> seb128: u r discussion upstream tasks and asked how it can be correlated with malone ;)
<\sh> discussing ;) 
<seb128> bradb_: at who is informed about the bug? nobody?
<bradb_> seb128: that's why it's a fairly urgent probably because, indeed, nobody
<bradb_> seb128: what we *could* do..
<seb128> \sh: no, I'm working how I can be informed of my bugs ... like with bugzilla atm
<bradb_> is have dilys join #ubuntu-motu, to at least have some notification happening in some way shape or form until the maintainership is properly setup.
<seb128> my concern is not motu
<bradb_> and, well, stub could probably do a simple SQL update
<seb128> that's breezy
<seb128> and the bug flow is too important to read all the bugs
<seb128> I need to get only the desktop bugs
<seb128> one way or another
<seb128> and that really should work before switching from bugzilla
<seb128> or we are going to send bugs to /dev/null
<seb128> not really that bad, but there is no way for everybody to follow on the whole bug flow
<seb128> (which is atm ubuntu-bugs)
<seb128> and I'm speaking without universe...
<bradb_> seb128: how is a "desktop bug" identified/
<seb128> we have assigned all the gnome stuff by hand to me
<seb128> gnome-panel == seb128
<seb128> nautilus == seb128
<seb128> etc
<bradb_> then we can do the same in Malone
<seb128> or ubuntu-desktop
<seb128> k
<seb128> how do I do that? :)
<bradb_> we'd make you the maintainer of those various source packages
<seb128> need to be a malone admin?
<bradb_> you wouldn't be the person who'd be setting that info directly at first, i don't think
<\sh> why not setting an additional field inside the debian/control ? ubuntu-qa: group-address/ubuntu-maintainers-address?
<seb128> no
<\sh> and filter it from this
<seb128> because we don't want to modify the whole archive
<ogra> heh, funny idea though
<bradb_> i really have to talk to the soyuz guys though. the whole system to deal with package interrogation and management is the place where setting up the correct sp maintainer happens.
<thom> \sh: meh, you'd have to do that for every single package; and how would you then do it for debian as well?
<seb128> bradb_: can you make than high priority please?
<seb128> s/than/that/
<bradb_> yeah, i already did a while back in this meeting :)
<seb128> k
<\sh> thom: well, right now, there is a discussion between debian and ubuntu because of those maintainer fields and stuff. so, we will see more ubuntu releases later in our life...so we can adjust those fields...not right now, but in the future
<seb128> \sh: no we can't
<bradb_> ok dudes, we've got to wrap up soon
<bradb_> we've gone on for an hour and 40 minutes somehow :)
<seb128> \sh: you want to fork the whole archive only to change that?
<ogra> heh
<\sh> seb128: no...
<dholbach> what about koke's list? :-)
<ogra> \sh, you have to
<bradb_> which is longer than the meeting we had to decide the entirety of Launchpad 1.0 in .au, i think :)
<seb128> which is short for distro meetings
<ogra> yep
<seb128> we already had some 3 hours meetings :)
<bradb_> ok, so koke what were your two points? let's try and run through them quickly
<ajmitch_> and 3 hours is still not enough..
<koke> well, I have a third one, maybe not as important
<dholbach> ogra: and 3 meetings a day :-)
<koke> 1- How can I assign a bug to me from the bug page?
<koke> 2- How can I close a bug from the bug page?
<koke> 3- Direct numbered url for a bug, without knowing the product
<ogra> dholbach, yeah... lets meet
<seb128> 1- already spoken about that
<seb128> 2- same
<bradb_> koke: you don't assign or close from the bug page.
<\sh> seb128: well, we're syncing the packages from debian...so we getting the stuff via <ftp/http/rsync>, we're using source packages, so why not put an add. field (as mentioned above) automatically to the debian/control file correlated from a list we set up before...(well it's an idea) 
<seb128> that's "how to edit from the bug page"
<seb128> <bradb> seb128: except it is somewhat overwhelming
<seb128> <bradb> seb128: it's hard to understand what you're supposed to be editing, why you're allowed to edit this certain thing in the page, and what to do about all this information being shown to you at once.
<bradb_> koke: a bug can exist in many places, you have to first go to the place where you've fixed the bug or where you want to assign it, and /then/ do that :)
<koke> bradb: look at https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/575/
<bradb_> koke: ok, so keep in mind what you're looking at there
<koke> that page shows "assigned to: MOTU"
<koke> then, I should think I can reassign
<bradb_> koke: you're looking at a report of a problem in some software
<seb128> \sh: no interest to do this
<bradb_> koke: as it turns out, because we're in the very, very, very early days of Malone, there's only one place in which this bug has been marked as needing to be fixed.
<bradb_> koke: remember though, when more and more people adopt malone, it'll be quite common to have 2, 3, 4, 5 or more tasks on a given bug.
<bradb_> koke: so that list with the headings "Upstream / Package     Status    ...." etc. could grow to several items long
<bradb_> ...and then you begin to appreciate why i rolled back having folded the task editing page into the bug editing page :)
<bradb_> it's an incredible amount of info to show on one page. :)
<seb128> bradb_: is there any way to have CC/watch directly on the bug page? It should figure from my login so that's a quick action (while the current form is when you want to Cc: somebody)
<koke> hmmm, I think this was more the "click on the row instead the text" ;)
<koke> bradb_: and what about closing?
<bradb_> koke: yeah :) the clickability sucks.
<koke> here I should say "rejecting"
<koke> the NOTABUG stuff
<bradb_> koke: click on the row and you'll see where you can set the assignee
<koke> mostly
<bradb_> or "Reject", etc.
<bradb_> seb128: someone already mentioned one-click subscription during this meeting (dholbach, i think.) not a priority though, but yes, i can understand why you guys want it.
<bradb_> it's been noted, but as lower priority for now
<seb128> k
<koke> e.g: look at bugs 617 and 618
<koke> IMHO these are not exactly bugs
<seb128> what is 617 so?
<seb128> bradb_: I want "click on an URL from a comment" working too :)
* koke too :)
<bradb_> sorry, was talking to BjornT for a sec
<ogra> uhh, all french
<ajmitch_> koke: why is 618 not a bug?
<bradb_> seb128: ah, yeah, isn't there a bug open for that/
<ajmitch_> it's just another FTBFS
<seb128> bradb_: maybe
<seb128> not by me :)
<koke> ajmitch_: the package is built in the archive
<koke> and I've looked into quake2 and there's no mention of that libs
<seb128> bradb_: doesn't seems so
<seb128> I'll open one
<bradb_> it's opened
<bradb_> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/495
<bradb_> seb128: ^^
<bradb_> same idea, anyway
<bradb_> right
<bradb_> i have to leave nowish
<bradb_> so, any last words before we wrap up?
* \sh needs a "brew coffee" link ;)
<koke> anyway, if these are not the best examples I'll file a bug "My president is buggy" :)
<seb128> I know you know about my concerns
<seb128> so fine with me
<seb128> koke: I don't get the point
<bradb_> i've noted all the important points that came up in this meeting. i'll write the appropriate mailing list tomorrow to inform a wider audience about this discussion.
<seb128> k
<dholbach> thanks bradb_ 
<koke> well, forget that, I think I need more sleep
<seb128> what list would that be?
<seb128> just to be sure I'm on the appriopriate list :p
<bradb_> seb128: i'll find out tomorrow morning :)
<\sh> koke: not only you :)
<koke> :D
<bradb_> launchpad@ and some other ubuntu places
<seb128> k
<seb128> thanks for the meeting
<koke> bradb_: what should I do with the low-prio items?
<bradb_> right, meeting adjourned. thanks guys.
<\sh> thx bradb_ 
<bradb_> koke: check if they're in malone, if not file them in Malone :)
<ogra> thanks bradb_ 
<koke> hmm, I'll try
<bradb_> cool, heading off now guys, later
<koke> but every page I visit I find a new one :)
<dholbach> have a nice day bradb_ 
<seb128> koke: try to not flood with minor issue atm maybe
<seb128> if you find that muchs concern there is probably some details
<koke> seb128: yep, that's why I don't like the idea of filing a bug per item
<koke> most of them have a one line fix
<seb128> have you some example?
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-05-21
<koke> sorry, let me see
<koke> - Autofocus on popups
<seb128> popu?
<seb128> popup?
<seb128> how do you get a popup?
<koke> onLoad='forms[blah] .field[searchbox] .focus()'
<koke> the (list) links
<seb128> I don't understand this bug...
<seb128> next one? :)
<koke> - The first small title on some pages seems a link
<koke> Some usabilty review on the launchpad CSS
<seb128> bah
<seb128> all that are cosmetic details
<koke> seb128: yep, low priority :)
<koke> a lot of small random stuff
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-15
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 10 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 May 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<flint> Morning Gang!
<flint> Hello Mr. Cole!
<kjcole> Morning Flint... We're off schedule in this new universe The Fridge (TM) says THIS week we meet at 16:00 EST (20:00 UTC)
<ajmitch> flint: here very early for a meeting?
<flint> ajmitch, kjcole, thanks... and get some sleep Matt!
<kjcole> (I remember... now that I'm at work... this discussion of alternating times every other week.)
<Seveas> @scehdule amsterdam
<Seveas> @schedule amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 10 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 10 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 11 May 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 14:00: Community Council | 17 May 14:00: Edubuntu
<fabbione> hey flint !
<fabbione> flint: i just read your emails.. they were lost in the LP spam
<flint> tres gente e non e problemmo!
<flint> fabbione, it is good to hear from you!
<fabbione> flint: :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 May 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<janimo> hi all
<Gloubiboulga> hey janimo :)
<janimo> no agenda for today :)
<Gloubiboulga> nop
<Gloubiboulga> I've pinged nomed on #xubuntu
<janimo> ok I'll just shortly describe what I am working on now and if anyone has quetsions go ahead
<janimo> so uploaded Gloubiboulga's goffice patch, is needed for both gnumeric and abiword to install without gnome deps
<janimo> am updating the packages one by one towards xfce 4.4beta2
<janimo> and closing lp bugs which have fixes upstream
<janimo> will need to get the final artwork and doc packages in this week.
<janimo> still need to look at the cdbs packages we want to have -gtk binaries biult from
<nomed> hi all
<janimo> hi nomed
<Gloubiboulga> hi there nomed 
<Gloubiboulga> I'll attach a new gnumeric patch on the LP bug in a few minutes
<Gloubiboulga> I've had some feedback from french users on the ubuntu-fr forum
<Gloubiboulga> most of them would like to see volumes mounted in /media on the desktop
<Gloubiboulga> windows partitions for example
<janimo> yeah I had that feedback too
<Gloubiboulga> is it something planned upstream?
<janimo> does gnome/nautilus do that?
<nomed> i told it :P
<janimo> nomed, form someone else too :)
<nomed> janimo, yep
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, I think nautilus does this
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: upstream has no plans usually ;)
<Gloubiboulga> hehe
<janimo> but not for 4.4 I think
<nomed> janimo, i mean that xfdesktop sould read fstab and proc/mounts even ..
<janimo> and only those in /media or anything in fstab?
<nomed> not just removable hal devices
<janimo> nomed, it's a thunar issue rather xfdesktop
<janimo> as the latter uses thunar vfs for this
<nomed> true
<janimo> so if thunar had those in it's shortcuts...
<janimo> maybe file a requesns against thunar in xfce bugzilla?
<janimo> not sure if this was discussed or not before
<nomed> janimo, i guess it's too late :(
<janimo> especially on the liveCD it would be nice to show the mounatble partitions
<janimo> nomed, we should not underestimate benny's speed ;)
<nomed> benny will not implement it on the stable release i'm afraid
<nomed> we can try .. 
<janimo> I am not sure how complicated it is though
<janimo> anyway it can be a request and implemented for etch or thunar 1.0 or whatever
<nomed> it may introduce complexity and bugs on a stable code
<Mithrandir> janimo: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/16356 is the bug for the live cd, fwiw.
<janimo> true
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 16356 in casper "LiveCD does not mount hard disk partitions (yet)" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
<janimo> Mithrandir: oh, but otherwise it is planned to have them all mounted?
<janimo> autmatically?
<nomed> Mithrandir, the problem is that xfce doesn't show those partitions even on installed system :(
<nomed> and even if mounted
<janimo> xfce is evil
<Mithrandir> janimo: possibly.  I'm not too sure I want to mount, say, ext3 since the machine might be suspended in which case we end up with data loss
<janimo> nomed: thunar already parses fstab in case hal-pmount does not work, or to double check something I forgot so the code is there
<janimo> but there may be UI and other issues, rather that code complexity
<nomed> janimo, in this case could be a little step
<nomed> strange benny didn't add it yet
<janimo> ok anything else?
<janimo> nomed so regarding the new theme, you talk to jmak and when you both agree I upload ok?
<nomed> ok
<janimo> and I say stick to clearlooks instead of ubuntulooks
<nomed> janimo, why ?
<janimo> someone mentioned in the art list the latter uses cairo
<janimo> that's a good enoug reason if true
<janimo> enough
<nomed> janimo, and clearlooks ?
<spikeb> clearlooks uses cairo as well
<nomed> yep
<janimo> ok, than he was not well informed
<nomed> and it fast anyway it seems ..
<janimo> and me neither apparently
<nomed> it's even
<janimo> but I don;t like the blue contour around selected items in jmak;s latest proposal
<janimo> it is disturbing at first at least
<janimo> I added ubuntuloooks to xubuntu-desktop anyway
<janimo> but I'd like we stuck with a default look already :)
<nomed> janimo, what is that blue contour ?
<nomed> i don't see it :/
<janimo> jmak, sent me a gtkrc
<spikeb> it'd be most logical to use ubuntulooks as the default - least amount of work
<janimo> I droped in in .usr/share./themes
<janimo> and highlighted items have a blue glow ariund them
<nomed> spikeb, agree
<nomed> janimo, i agree here too
<janimo> spikeb: is using clearlooks more work?
<nomed> that's what i told to jmak
<nomed> and what i'd like to correct
<nomed> and even to use a ligther blue for selected items
<janimo> and the scrollbars also have some sci-fi blueish effects too
<spikeb> janimo: i meant as opposed to making something else - not clearlooks vs ubuntulooks
<nomed> the text is black and that blue is too dark
<nomed> spikeb, that's sure :)
<janimo> spikeb: right, we now just talk of whetherit's wort chosing ubuntulooks over clearlooks which is the default now
<nomed> we'll not code a new engine .. i guess
<spikeb> ahh ok
<nomed> even if i think it could be needed a notification-daemon theme
<janimo> I very much like current theme
<janimo> although I very much like anything I start using for more than a few days
<nomed> janimo, that is ?
<nomed> default clearlooks ?
<janimo> clearlooks, yes
<nomed> janimo, my idea was to have same theme
<nomed> clearlooks
<nomed> meaning .. same colors
<janimo> right, + gtkrc settings
<nomed> but using ubuntulooks
<janimo> what is the difference?
<nomed> ubuntulooks is ubuntu engine
<janimo> right, but from a user POV?
<nomed> well .. i guess they considered some usability and accessibility stuff ..
<janimo> we may need some more info on the reason for ubuntulooks, and the diffs between them
<janimo> it's package deskkription is the same as clearlooks'
<janimo> we don't aim to be as polished as ubuntu, since we don;t have as many resources now
<nomed> janimo, ex .. i like very much the ubuntulooks scrollbar ..
<janimo> so I'd prefer spending time on uploading bugfixes :)
<nomed> it's really much better then the clearlooks one
<janimo> ok, I'll try ubuntulooks myslef
<nomed> janimo, if you selected jmak theme you're already using it
<spikeb> polish should come later - making it work should come first :)
<janimo> so you and jmak, post a gtkrc theme to the list when ready (not to me personally)
<nomed> janimo, yep
<janimo> and tell poeple where to put it and how to try it out
<janimo> then after some informal poll we see
<janimo> I dont' want to keep uploading artwork which changes a bit every couple days :)
<janimo> it takes too much time
<nomed> janimo, my idea was to sync it with tango and icon naming utils update
<janimo> agreed
<nomed> as the patch has been sent ..
<nomed> and it should be integrated soon
<janimo> ok, than we just wait till taht arrives
<janimo> as for the tangerine extras discussion, again whatever you/dholbach/art list decides
<janimo> as long as it's a common decision which affects ubuntu too I am fine with it
<nomed> janimo, this is an endles loop :)
<janimo> I just don;t want to package a new theme just for us
<ogra> nomed, dont worry it will go on over the releases ;)
<nomed> dholbach, waits you and Gloubiboulga + artists suggestion ..
<janimo> tango is just fine, and if you have the fix for the settings manager even better
<nomed> i wait dholbach ..
<nomed> and so on ..
<dholbach> janimo: i'd be happy to hear something on the ubuntu-art list
<nomed> ogra, hehe i hope :)
<janimo> dholbach: hear what?from me? :)
<janimo> I am not sure what else needs imporving as I am pretty happy with current xubuntu icon/artwork
<janimo> and unhappy about some bugs I'd like to fix ;)
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> same here
<dholbach> oh well
<dholbach> i'll talk with andreasn about it
<janimo> dholbach: so if tangerine/tango is common to ubuntu/xubuntu I go with whatever ubuntu decides
<spikeb> i dont know how much my input matters, but i'm rather happy with what i see so far regarding the look
<nomed> janimo, xubuntu artwork is not "homogeneus"
<dholbach> it's just that i don't want to make decisions on something i don't have an overview over and do unnecessary work, if I can evade it
<janimo> nomed: right, so we need some more polish but only if it does not take up resources from more important work
<dholbach> that's why I asked ubuntu-art
<dholbach> i'm pretty packed with work as it is
<janimo> that's why I am happy to let you and jmak decide and ping me with final stuff
<janimo> after the input from xubu users is ok
<nomed> i think if it was possible to install from Tangerine/*/apps
<nomed> to Tango/*/apps
<nomed> that would solve everything ..
<dholbach> if somebody does a list and says: "we're ok with the change, please do it", I can do that
<spikeb> sounds to me like everyone wants an art freeze
<nomed> dholbach, a list of "tango-icon-theme-apps.install" ?
<dholbach> nomed: things that need moving from tangerine to some more common package
<nomed> dholbach, ok
<nomed> it should be not that difficult
<dholbach> I'm out for a walk (and some deserved icecream :-) ). Follow up on the mail or ping me privately.
<janimo> nomed: thanks
<dholbach> nomed: thanks
<nomed> whatever is in Tangerine but not in tango
<nomed> i'll do that
<dholbach> cool
<janimo> nomed, so we keep using tango ok?
<janimo> + these extras you will list
<dholbach> nomed: if you can follow up on the list with that, I'd be grateful, as it will need discussion
<nomed> janimo, this was decided no ? :)
<janimo> I never know when it comes to icon themes :)
<nomed> dholbach, it seems ppl are not really interested on it
<nomed> but yes
<nomed> i'll try to do that with lapo and andreas
<dholbach> nomed: thanks.
<dholbach> rock
<dholbach> see you guys later!
<janimo> dholbach: by
<janimo> e
<janimo> ok anything else to discuss?
<nomed> well ..
<nomed> ogra, maybe you can help me here
<ogra> ?
<nomed> i'd like to add some spec for edgy ..
<nomed> xubuntu stuff
<nomed> as it's full of spec we can't implement for dapper but we wouldn't forget for edgy
<nomed> i tried to figure out in LP how to do that ..
<nomed> but it's not really clear
<nomed> should i just write a wiki page ..
<nomed> and care of it later ?
<Gloubiboulga> (if there's no more discussion for dapper I'm off for a moment...)
<nomed> ok need to go now cu later
<janimo> by
<janimo> end of meeting I guess
<janimo> have a nice day all
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 11 May 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<lucasvo> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 10 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 11 May 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 14:00: Community Council | 17 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<cbx33> @schedule
<Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
<cbx33> @schedule GMT
<cbx33> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 10 May 21:00: Edubuntu | 11 May 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 22:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 13:00: Community Council | 17 May 13:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 10 May 23:00: Edubuntu | 11 May 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 May 00:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 15:00: Community Council | 17 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<juliux> hi Amaranth 
<Amaranth> hi
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 May 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Amaranth> that's cool
<Seveas> what?
<Amaranth> Ubugtu: changing the topic
<Amaranth> err
<Amaranth> no :
<Seveas> heh, try @schedule your_timezone
<Seveas> that's even cooler
<Seveas> @schedule Europe/Amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 11 May 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 14:00: Community Council | 17 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 11 May 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 14:00: Community Council | 17 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Amaranth> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 11 May 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 16:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 07:00: Community Council | 17 May 07:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Amaranth> shiny
<Bluekuja> Amaranth: lol :)
<ogra> calm down guys, still 8 mins
<juliux> yes its ok daddy smurf
<juliux> ;)
<Seveas> lol, ogra as daddy smurf
* Seveas fires up the gimp
<Bluekuja> lol
<cbx33> hehe Seveas :p
<highvoltage> ogra: have you been keeping the room warm for us?
<ogra> sure as always :)
<cbx33> hehe
* Ubugtu points to the airco... that's not labeled 'ogra'....
<JaneW> hi all
<Bluekuja> hi janeW :)
<Amaranth> hey JaneW
<cbx33> hey JaneW 
<Seveas> hi, JaneWhip 
<Amaranth> i wonder why pygi left 20 minutes before the meeting
<juliux> hi JaneW 
<Bluekuja> Amaranth: maybe he'll be back or not?
<Amaranth> *shrug*
<ogra> hey JaneW 
<JaneW> 2 mins
<JaneW> hey ogar
<Bluekuja> Amaranth: what does he said?
<Amaranth> 1 minute :P
<JaneW> ogra
<cbx33> ogar :p
<ogra> oger ? 
<Amaranth> Bluekuja: Nothing, he just disconnected.
<ogra> I'M NOT GREEN !
* JaneW 's heater is broken - cold here
<Bluekuja> Amaranth: oh okie, so maybe he'll be back
<JaneW> ogra: not yet ;)
<juliux> hehe he isnt green he is blue ;)
<cbx33> JaneW, invite ogra over, apparently he's good at heating up the room
<JaneW> ogra: we'll need to start calling you Shrek
<Seveas> juliux, almost ;)
<highvoltage> a shrek pic with the princess with ogra's and jane's faces on would be real funny
<ogra> i'm rather like an onion, you know
<highvoltage> Seveas: keep your gimp open :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: :)
<juliux> yes
<Seveas> ogra, smelly and causing tears?
<ogra> Seveas, nah, in LAYERS ! :)
<Seveas> hehe :_
<JaneW> highvoltage: my son told me I am the donkey!
<Amaranth> people used to call me shrek...
* ogra didnt know JaneW sings that much
<Amaranth> now it's lurch
<LaserJock> ack, sorry I"m late
<highvoltage> hmmm.. who am i then in shrek? i don't want to be that little guy :(
<Amaranth> big tall guy from adam's family
<highvoltage> not after all the spam i'm getting
<JaneW> highvoltage: LMAO
<JaneW> highvoltage: you can be the gingerbread man
<JaneW> highvoltage: or the gimp
<JaneW> ok shall we start?
<highvoltage> i choose gimp.
<cbx33> indeed
* highvoltage nods
<JaneW> highvoltage: thought you would
<JaneW> ;p
* ogra pokes flint 
<LaserJock> highvoltage: "Don't EAT ME!"
<highvoltage> LaserJock: i'll try
<JaneW> yes I hope the rest of the world appreciates this time, I nearly feel asleep just now :/
<Bluekuja> hehe, its ok for me
<JaneW> ok do we have a tech update?
<juliux> is there an agenda for today?
<ogra> i find it an intresting feeling to have an edubuntu meeting at night :)
<LaserJock> JaneW: what is your local time?
<JaneW> ogra: there was mention of a new bug in last thurs meeting
<highvoltage> me too, it doesn't feel real somehow
<JaneW> LaserJock: 10pm (but I am tired)
<highvoltage> it's like goint to school at night
<cbx33> juliux, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda
<ogra> JaneW, there was ? 
<juliux> thxs
<LaserJock> JaneW: well the last one was 5am for me, so it feels weird to have one in the light ;-)
<highvoltage> ogra: this is the part where you talk about lack of cd space and next beta release :)
<JaneW> ogra: so are there any serious bugs or other tech issues?
<ogra> all i can report is that i fixed ALL (!!!) ltsp bugs the last days, only whishlist ones are left 
<JaneW> how's flight 7 looking?
<ogra> there is no flight 7
<JaneW> wow, sounds great
<cbx33> well done ogra 
<LaserJock> ogra: way to go!
<highvoltage> ogra: nice :)
<Amaranth> nice
<ogra> we skipped 7
<Amaranth> going straight to RC?
<juliux> ogra, good job
<JaneW> ogra: for edubuntu only?
<ogra> flight 8 will be prepared at the end of this week
<cbx33> I always feel sorry for ogra at this point...everybody jumps on him :p
<JaneW> ogra: I didn't notice that
<ogra> JaneW, i wasnt notified before and i refuse to start preparing flights if i get notified 12h before 
<JaneW> ogra: why did we not do flight 7?
<JaneW> oic ok
<JaneW> yes I recall that is was pretty sudden and unannounced
<highvoltage> quite
<ogra> its way too short time to get the CDs in shape, since a package from upload to archive currently takes ~4h
* cbx33 too
<JaneW> do you think we needed it though?
<JaneW> edubuntu has been fairly static for a while now
<ogra> nope, it has changed a lot the last days 
<JaneW> ok, so 8 should be good?
<cbx33> i tested a daily a few days ago
<cbx33> seemed fine
<ogra> i.e. the gcompris guys provided a patch that actually shrinks the package by 5M
<JaneW> how many more flight will there be do you think? 3 week to release now...
<cbx33> ah excellent
<ogra> 8 should be great !
<highvoltage> wow! that's great of them
<JaneW> ogra: cool
<ogra> i think that'll be the last flight before RC
<cbx33> w00t
<highvoltage> hopefully gcompris will be more stable and less memory consuming too
<JaneW> ogra: can we implement that patch?
<ogra> but i'm not the release manager ;)
<ogra> JaneW, already done 
<cbx33> JaneW, I think it's already done isn;t it ogra ?
<JaneW> ok, good
<highvoltage> gcompris in our tuxlabs often gets the load average to 80 on the server
<ogra> we need to drop *something* from amd64
<ogra> (3.5M oversized)
<JaneW> ogra: so you are happy to put you name in shining lights on Edubuntu 6.06?
<cbx33> ooooh
<JaneW> ogra: any suggestions?
<cbx33> and that's without artwork/docs ogra ?
<highvoltage> tuxtype?
<ogra> the other arches are fine (until i upload the new artwork package tonight or tomorrow i guess)
<cbx33> ogra, we have the new artwork?
<JaneW> ogra: the artwork shouldn't be too large
<ogra> i got the final artwork today, will perpare the package asap
<cbx33> excellent
<ogra> so flight 8 will have the finals
<cbx33> means we can start screenshots :D
<juliux> can we do an package with the old artwork?
<juliux> too
<JaneW> ogra: is the artwork going to be kept secret until the release date?
<JaneW> ogra: oh, ok^^
<cbx33> someof it is already released?
<JaneW> yes we need the screenshots
<ogra> and after working a week with the wallpaper i think we can go with red and orange to keep at least a minimal "warm" color
<cbx33> :D
<JaneW> ok so in the next week we should start seeing the final look
<ogra> else the artwork is *very* cold now
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> ogra: agreed, let's try stick to our themes as much as possible, without obvious clashing
<ogra> tomorrow you should :)
<cbx33> did you want lisas wallpaper in the aditional package?
<JaneW> so we may need to tone things down a bit
<ogra> cbx33, YES !
<JaneW> cbx33: did she finish it?
<cbx33> JaneW, we have this
<cbx33> www.progbox.co.uk/3.jpg
* ogra would even take it unfinished as is)
* JaneW looks...
<juliux> perhaps we can do an package edubuntu-art-work-warm ;)
<azeem> W 28
<azeem> sorry
<ogra> juliux, no space on the CD
<juliux> ogra, no on the cd
<ogra> cbx33, AWESOME !!
<JaneW> loading SLOWLY here
<cbx33> jane i have a smaller version?
<juliux> cbx33, cool
<cbx33> www.progbox.co.uk/33.jpg
<ogra> really kudos
<highvoltage> cbx33: yeah, it's really nice
<cbx33> ogra, will that be on the cd or as a universe package?
<JaneW> cool
<ogra> that'll be in the edubuntu-artwork package
<JaneW> cbx33: is she happy for us to use it?
<cbx33> highvoltage, we're still working on othe thing too :p
<JaneW> it's lovely
<ogra> if you run dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork you can select the young flavor
<cbx33> of course JaneW she drew all the characters for you :p
<highvoltage> cbx33: excellent :)
<JaneW> cbx33: what are the black things though, with the logo on them?
<cbx33> skateboard
<JaneW> cbx33: THANK-YOU LISA!!!!!
<ogra> JaneW, skateboard
<ogra> yeah, THANKS LISA !!! 
<Bluekuja> cbx33: it's really a nice work
<JaneW> oh of course, I totally didn't notice that!
<ogra> its so great
<juliux> much better then the worldcard
<cbx33> :D
<JaneW> I thought it was 2 old LPs or something
<ogra> JaneW, Burgwork had the same prob
* highvoltage considers doing a figlet for lisa, but decides to follow suite with THANK YOU LISA!
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> ok, thats from the tech side 
<highvoltage> he thought it was two old launchpads?
<JaneW> my new wallpaper :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<JaneW> it will be hard to say goodbye to edubuntu girl...
<JaneW> but this at least makes me smile too, so it will be ok.
<ogra> JaneW, she's still in #edubuntu, we wont loose her
<highvoltage> i think she has a feeling that something's going on
<JaneW> ogra: now we have da edubuntu homies ;)
<ogra> yeah, saw that
<cbx33> the homies rock
<highvoltage> yeah, they do
<ogra> JaneW, yep in eft+1 we'll have an "edubuntu gang" bot ;)
<JaneW> highvoltage: your personality split is getting scary
<JaneW> ok we'd better move on
<ogra> that can include edubuntu girl :)
<Burgwork> JaneW, I thought the person was fingering the watcher
<ogra> tech is done :)
<JaneW> so tech stuff - done
<highvoltage> JaneW: which personality split?
<JaneW> artwork - done
<ogra> heh, yes, alongside
<highvoltage> edubuntu girl NG
<JaneW> ogra: do you have all the artwork you need now?
<ogra> JaneW, yep
<JaneW> what about young splash?
<ogra> err
<cbx33> :D
<ogra> nope
<ogra> wait
<cbx33> want lisa to work on that?
<JaneW> and young login screen
<ogra> i have no usplash, i understood that we should get a new one as well
<ogra> mdz asked about it in his mail
<ogra> but since i didnt hear from silbs i guess we wont get one :/
<HedgeMage> thanks, highvoltage, I almost forgot
<cbx33> ogra, if you want any edubuntugang stuff, just submit specs to me and I'll pass them to lisa
<HedgeMage> it's been on eof those days
<mdz> ogra: we can try to get one, but there is very little time
<JaneW> ogra: we'd better send a mail to silbs and mdz detailing each of the themes and showing what we'll be using, to make sure there are no major issues
<ogra> to be honest, the artwork situation this release was quite horrible 
<JaneW> ogra: could you compile that please?
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> ogra: but we saw examples, and you designed at least one...
<ogra> mdz, yep, thats why i answered we could take the old one
<ogra> JaneW, me ? 
<ogra> not the usplash, no
<JaneW> ogra: well you showed me a few, in any event
<ogra> i mean, i designed the current one, yes
<ogra> JaneW, are you sure you are talking about usplash ? 
<JaneW> ogra: the circle of friends one, and that other shiney one etc
<ogra> thats the gnome splash
<ogra> we have one from the design company now 
<JaneW> ogra: no, I think I am talking gnome splash
<JaneW> not Usplash
<highvoltage> edubuntu is 40% shinier than any of the other ubuntu distro's
<cbx33> is there a seperate young gnome splash?
* Riddell disagrees with highvoltage there
<highvoltage> Riddell: you would :)
<ogra> highvoltage, not anymore ... in fact it looks quite cold and uncomfortable ... 
<JaneW> erk, let's not have a derivative war!
<JaneW> we are all shiny
<ogra> i'm trying what i can to compensate that but i only have the window borders and the menu highlight color
<JaneW> (but some are shinier than others)
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, the shiny red theme not default theme anymore?
<cbx33> we are all ubuntu after all
<ogra> highvoltage, i think we'll keep that 
<ogra> it works with the chalkboard
<JaneW> ogra: do you need further artwork help?
<ogra> JaneW, nope 
<JaneW> ogra: and can Lisa do designs for the U & gnome splashes etc?
<ogra> apart from the final homies pic if lisa wants to d more on it
* HedgeMage is finishing the cookbook stuff she signed up for as we speak
<HedgeMage> Anything useful I can do once that's finished?
* ogra applauds HedgeMage 
<JaneW> HedgeMage: great we'll discuss that next
<ogra> :)
<sladen> a black and white chalkboard for the edubuntu usplash would work very well
<JaneW> ogra: so are you happy you have artwork under control?
<cbx33> ogra, what's the deadline for the homies stuff
<ogra> sladen, please not more chalkboards
<highvoltage> cbx33: you said you had a jw homie, could you upload that too?
<cbx33> will do, :D
<JaneW> sladen: we are not terribly fond of chalkboards anymore :)
<ogra> JaneW, for some kind of minimal value of control, yes
<ogra> (very minimal)
<cbx33> ogra, cease this mumbo jumbo :p
<ogra> i have the artwork and we can go with the old usplash
<JaneW> ogra: LOL (understood)
<cbx33> minimal values blah...make sme think I'm back at uni
<LaserJock> cbx33: the Edubuntu uni ;-)
<cbx33> :p
<JaneW> ogra: surprise us
<ogra> all i have to do is packaging it and make sure we have the space on the CD
<highvoltage> ogra: just not naked people again please
<JaneW> ok artwork - discussed, TBC soon
<JaneW> ok documentation
<JaneW> let's talk about TDC
<JaneW> The Dreaded Cookbook
<cbx33> heh
<JaneW> where are we with that?
<ogra> i was approached at linuxtag by some guys who want to make a german translated printed edition of it :)
<HedgeMage> ogra told me it was due on the 10th, so naturally I'm doing it at the last possible moment.
<HedgeMage> But, it'll be done in a couple of hours :)
<JaneW> spacey and pygi took ownership...
<ogra> HedgeMage, i told you ? 
<HedgeMage> where it = my parts
<highvoltage> ugh. it's the 10th today
<HedgeMage> ogra: I think it was you
<JaneW> ogra: awesome, ... now we just need to finish it
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: you mean pygi
<highvoltage> pygi is going to kick my ass tomorrow
<ogra> unlikely, i tend to ignore deadlines where i'm allowed to 
* cbx33 is happy to proof and make corrections if that's needed?
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: could have been, it was near dawn my time when the discussion was had
<highvoltage> i'll have to stay up late to work on the cookbook then
<ogra> and edubuntu docs is something where we can slip
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I'd like that when mine goes up
<JaneW> ogra: how much?
<JaneW> ogra: to the end of the week?
<LaserJock> ogra: the doc team is starting a lulu.com store for print copies of doc team material
<ogra> i'd say until short before RC
<cbx33> HedgeMage, just ping me or mail me a link : silentkeystroke@googlemail.com
<highvoltage> also on docs, cbx33 is going to do some wiki cleanup (which is *much* needed)
<highvoltage> cbx33: perhaps you'd like to mention your plans?
<HedgeMage> cbx33: okay, will do
<cbx33> indeed i am
<JaneW> ogra: but we need time to proof and finalise, so the sooner the better
<ogra> but given that we might need to get corrections in, probably end of the week is better
<JaneW> what's the likelyhood that this beast is going to be done?
<HedgeMage> cbx33: what kind of plans? World domination?
<cbx33> I've started a clean up wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuWikiCleanup
<cbx33> please if you have any comments on pages just add them below
<cbx33> I intend to make a new mockup of the wiki front page ~ASAP
<JaneW> cbx33: great thanks, that will help a lot
<HedgeMage> cool
<cbx33> any ideas comments just mail em to me, I'll setup a mock page tomorrow morning
<JaneW> we need to make the content valid for the dapper release
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> that is the main plan
<ogra> note that we need to make the ltsp docs common, they are not edubuntu specific
<JaneW> good
<cbx33> also there is a lot of redundnt data in the old one
<ogra> even if i always put them below edubuntu docs
<JaneW> ogra: yes
<cbx33> see the cleanup
<highvoltage> ogra: noted
<cbx33> ogra, noted about the ltsp
<cbx33> i will edit mine
<highvoltage> ogra: so they should stay out of the /Edubuntu namespace?
<cbx33> think we need to pull these together
<ogra> i think Applicationselectin can go 
* highvoltage agrees with cbx33 
<cbx33> into a kind of ltsp manual
<cbx33> cookbook possibly
<highvoltage> all the seperate ltsp pages is a bit confusing
<ogra> in favor od the ESA
<ogra> *of
<cbx33> ogra, yes - and ther eare several others like that
<ogra> it was a crappy page i used as a dynamic list while we did the first appselection
<ogra> edubuntu desktop can go as well
<ogra> -software too
<cbx33> mark them on the cleanup if you could ogra :p
<ogra> ok
<highvoltage> most of the original wiki can go. some parts need to be redone.
<Burgwork> when cleaning up the wiki, remember to look for pages that link in, if you are going to delete
<ogra> yep
<highvoltage> but i trust cbx33 with it :)
<cbx33> thanks highvoltage 
<cbx33> I'll not be deleting anything....but moving for now
<ogra> the *goals pages are worth archiving 
<Burgwork> cbx33, moving == deleting in moin
<highvoltage> Burgwork: if we'd want to delete some pages, do we just ping on -doc, or should it just be marked as a category for deletion?
<Burgwork> highvoltage, just delete them
<JaneW> yes app selection was hacked together at the summit, I think it' largely irrelevant now
<Burgwork> we trust you
<ogra> err
<JaneW> although we should have a list of packaged apps
<cbx33> :D
<ogra> DapperGoals are the ubuntu dapper goals 
<ogra> how did that end up there =
<ogra> ?
<cbx33> ogra, its a wiki :p
<highvoltage> check the history?
<ogra> our pages are all prefixed with Edubuntu
<cbx33> if the majority of the cleanup page is approved by you guys I'll start on that tomorrow hopefully
<ogra> please make things like TeachingTools EdubuntuTechingTools
<LaserJock> JaneW: all package on the Edubuntu CD or just the edubuntu specific ones?
<ogra> *Teaching
<JaneW> LaserJock: relevent ones I think
<cbx33> ogra, yes will do
<ogra> LaserJock, even the science packages from universe
<cbx33> JaneW, does the ESA cover it ?
<JaneW> so mostly the edu stuff and then mention the other main ubuntu app like OOo xchat etc
<ogra> i looked at the german edubuntu wiki page today, it links to UbuntuScience ;)
<cbx33> so ESA should voer it
<JaneW> yes
<cbx33> xchat isn't it edubuntu is it?
<ogra> yes, ESA covbers the installed stuff
<JaneW> cbx33: yes I have it
<cbx33> I had to manually install it
<JaneW> I have edu desktop install
<ogra> we dont ship any chat program anymore
<cbx33> ogra, can you confirm
<cbx33> didn;t think so
<ogra> its been dropped from ubuntu
<cbx33> that is supprising
<JaneW> unless ogra cheated and just gave me the artwork on top of ubuntu
<ogra> they say gaim is enough
<JaneW> argh
<cbx33> give me xchat anyday :p
* JaneW too
<Bluekuja> me too
<Bluekuja> i love it
<JaneW> anyway that's not our decision
<ogra> its in universe :)
<cbx33> :d
<JaneW> so ppl will learn how to d/l and install
<LaserJock> ok, so if you want I can work on package lists
<Bluekuja> hehe yes
<cbx33> ok can i add a little bit about ESA?
<highvoltage> ogra: don't we even have irssi in edubuntu!? that should be part of the base install!
<ogra> if i had the space to play around i'd re-add it, really
<cbx33> ogra, I believe you
<JaneW> ok so is anyone owning getting the cookbook finished? still pygi and spacey?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: it is, I'm pretty sure
<cbx33> LaserJock, what pacakge list?
<ogra> cbx33, tell us about ESA
<LaserJock> cbx33: JaneW wanted an Edubuntu package list
<ogra> cbx33, scientific apps
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes
<cbx33> ESA has come along in leaps and bounds....it's now in the ubuntu-doc svn repo
<cbx33> hoping to get the screenshots now that the artwork has been finalised
<JaneW> highvoltage: ok I am going to mail them for an official status update
<LaserJock> cbx33: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/school-advocacy.html
<ogra> do you have any estimated size for it ? 
<highvoltage> JaneW: great
<cbx33> thanx LaserJock 
<JaneW> cbx33: yes
<JaneW> highvoltage: will you be able to put a few updated screenshots on the site too once they are available?
<highvoltage> JaneW: absolutely
<cbx33> I will put the most uptodate ESA on the wiki
<JaneW> oh and we'll need to start working on our release announcement too
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> then we can add screenshots there
<JaneW> is mgalvin working on those yet?
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: I could use some help with screen shots for my install chapter, too, if you're willing
<cbx33> please if someone is using a package, or knows how to use it and can produce good screenshots that would be appreiciated
<cbx33> we really need to show these off
<HedgeMage> I can do app/package shots, just not install shots (no vm)
<HedgeMage> cbx33: just give me a list :)
<cbx33> HedgeMage, that'd be excellent
<cbx33> check ESA
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: ok, there's a whole range of installation screenshots at http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted
<ogra> the install wont change 
<cbx33> it's all there
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: but if you need any more, please let me know, and I'll arrange
<ogra> so highvoltages shots from there are fine
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: cool thanks you rock
<ogra> highvoltage, did you change the "admin" thing ? 
<HedgeMage> cbx33: ESA????
<cbx33> ogra, are we documenting the ubiquity install?
<highvoltage> ogra: no, not yet. do you recommend that i do?
<cbx33> HedgeMage, see LaserJock's link above
<ogra> and please note that the screenresulution question is not a common one
<JaneW> HedgeMage: there are install shots in OsDir already
<ogra> it only happens if autodetection fails
<highvoltage> ogra: 'sysadmin' would be fine, right?
<HedgeMage> thanks
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> those aren;t changing afaik
<ogra> cbx33, we dont ship liveCDs
<cbx33> ok np
<cbx33> just checking
<ogra> no need to extra document ubiquity, since its identical on ubuntu 
* highvoltage noticed that there is a shipit.edubuntu.org last week
<HedgeMage> JaneW: in where? sorry :(
<ogra> just that the windowframe is brown not red :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: cool
<JaneW> HedgeMage: lemme find link
<ogra> yep, shipit it in test run currently
<cbx33> nice
<HedgeMage> question: when I start doing app screenshots, should I do them all with the default theme (for consistency) ?
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: yep
<cbx33> HedgeMage, yes, once ogra has released the artwork
<ogra> yup
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: yes, or you will be assigned to all related bug reports ;-)
<HedgeMage> ogra: what's ETA on that?
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: LOL
<ogra> the apps artwork wont change ... as long as you dont have the wallpaper in them all is fine
* HedgeMage hides from the bugs
<cbx33> ogra, thank you
<ogra> HedgeMage, tomorrow
<HedgeMage> ogra: okay, cool
<JaneW> HedgeMage: 
<JaneW> http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=621&slide=1
<HedgeMage> ogra: poke me tomorrow and remind me if it's not too much trouble, please
<ogra> oki
<HedgeMage> thanks JaneW 
<JaneW> HedgeMage: those are 6.06 beta
<ogra> JaneW, thats all liveCD 
<ogra> (bootscreen etc)
<JaneW> ogra: ah right, there were more then...
<JaneW> ogar: oh and this is what I mean earlier, didn;t you make this http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=621&slide=3
<ogra> the gettingstarted page has currently the best installer shots we have
<ogra> JaneW, yup
<ogra> but intentional as an interim
<ogra> i found it too dark when i created it already
<ogra> or rather too saturated
* highvoltage looks at that osdir page
<JaneW> it is nice though and certainly better than not having any edubuntu one
<JaneW> ogra: and what about that install video?
<JaneW> ogra: shall we try to use it somehow
<JaneW> ?
<ogra> we should advertise it, yes
<cbx33> anyone seen the plethora of edubuntu videos on goolge?
<highvoltage> yep
<HedgeMage> nope, I'll have to look
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/splash_05a.png
<JaneW> ok I think we should link to some of the better tutorials, esp Chris's one which is very good
<JaneW> it made me want to install it!
<ogra> and: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper_art/chalkboard.png
<cbx33> ogra, nice splash
<ogra> imagine the splash on the chalkboard :)
<ogra> makes me freezy 
<JaneW> ogra: that splash matches at least
<cbx33> JaneW, my point
<highvoltage> JaneW: what did you mean about that osdir page?
<JaneW> it goes with the theme
<ogra> but hey, the guy who made it has studied it i guess
<cbx33> heh
<highvoltage> ogra: i see what you mean with cold
<JaneW> highvoltage: nm, I thought there were installer screenshots, but there aren't :(
<JaneW> highvoltage: the other one was the splash
<ogra> it pretty much the opposite of our breezy appearance
<ogra> JaneW, there were a lot better ones in the splash selection
<cbx33> true
<ogra> that also matched
<JaneW> ogra: at this point all we can do is say 'I told you so' if it is not well received in the community
<cbx33> highvoltage, did you post on your blog yet?
<JaneW> ogra: do we have to keep it for 5 years!?
<JaneW> 3 rather
<ogra> JaneW, 3 only
<LaserJock> ogra: quick question, will people that dist-upgrade from breezy still have the breezy theme?
<cbx33> you're kidding right?
<ogra> our server luckily depends on desktop stuff :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: no, sadly i forgot to download ogra's presentation at work the past three days :(
<ogra> LaserJock, nope
<cbx33> hehe
<LaserJock> ogra: that will be a shock
<ogra> yep
<highvoltage> Thomas Hoffman complained when he was greeted with edubuntugirl after a dist-upgrade
<ogra> i only have the opportunity to say "i told you so" afterwards 
<highvoltage> i wonder what he'll say after his next dist-upgrade :)
<ogra> he'll be pleased
<cbx33> only if he had the Homies
<ogra> who knows, probably he was involved in the selection ;)
<cbx33> anything else?
* ogra is no friend of t.h. since he asked about bugs and released that as an interview a day later
<highvoltage> next time we have a meeting at 22:00 we should announce it to the edubuntu list, methinks
* cbx33 has one final point if ther eis time....
<ogra> JaneW, any Management and/or Community stuff ?
<ogra> highvoltage, yep
<highvoltage> i think there's some people in other timezones that didn't know about this meeting
<JaneW> well there's SoC, but that's not specific to Edubuntu
<ogra> we should also make the agenda page more promintent
<JaneW> and the summit in June
<ogra> yeah, SoC
<JaneW> the sponsorships are still being considered
<highvoltage> ogra: noted
<highvoltage> ogra: it can link directly from our www page?
<ogra> we have two edubuntu SoC's with mentors now :)
<Amaranth> JaneW: *crosses fingers*
<JaneW> we should have definite answers by the end of the week on sponsorships
<ogra> highvoltage, yep
<ogra> oh yes, the summit :)
<JaneW> looks like we'll get 2/3 edubuntu ppl though
<juliux> JaneW, thats good
<ogra> UbuntruFrenchKiss :)
<HedgeMage> nice
<ogra> oops
<ogra> *Ubuntu
* cbx33 has one final point if there is time....
<highvoltage> two minutes :)
<cbx33> and nothing else to discuss
<juliux> cbx33, some here, because i get an holiday job in london
* HedgeMage listens
<highvoltage> cbx33: speak!
* cbx33 is putting together a proposal
<cbx33> to take edubuntu to the BETT show in london next year
<highvoltage> cbx33: paste your wiki link
<cbx33> it's in January, it's going ot take some convicing, as it isn't cheap
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BETTShow2007
<ogra> oh, btw i agreed to sladen that i'll hold an edubuntu talk at http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2006/
<ogra> while we're at shows
<cbx33> any ideas for fundraising or 3rd party sponsorship 
<cbx33> please let me know
<cbx33> also if anyone would be available to come ot london to help out that'd be cool
<cbx33> thanx guys
<cbx33> that's me done
<highvoltage> i'll also be pimping edubuntu next week at linuxworld in Jo'burg
<JaneW> yes please if you can add to the proposal that would be great
<cbx33> highvoltage, nice
<cbx33> this is a chance to show edubutu to educational people
<JaneW> we need to have a plan before we approach management for assistance
<highvoltage> (that's when i'm not playing pranks on jdub, of course)
<Amaranth> the sioux city school district's IT guys started the local lug, i should see if they know about edubuntu
<JaneW> and need a plan b for funding if management say no, or only partially yes
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I could come if there were fundage for it, but I don't have the money to travel like that on my own budget :/
<cbx33> JaneW, exactly
<highvoltage> JaneW: good idea, i think we might need to put time aside to discuss that, don't you think?
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes please do!
<JaneW> highvoltage: are you taking ubuntu CDs?
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes, i am
<cbx33> are we shipping over to #edubuntu now?
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes, but I think we should maybe do it after the release when thing settle down (discuss BETT proposal)
<cbx33> JaneW, yes i agree
<ogra> yep, time is over 
<sladen> ogra: good point, did you sort out that talk with agk
<highvoltage> how is may the 23rd, 12:00 UTC for everyone, for a discussion on approaching management and edubuntu proposals?
<JaneW> highvoltage: oh please do something nasty to jdub!
<ogra> lets give Ubugtu an opportunity to clean up the room :)
<highvoltage> JaneW: ok :)
<ogra> sladen, not yet ... but end of june is far out :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: I think we must wait till first week in June
<JaneW> we have to finish dapper
<JaneW> cookbook
<JaneW> ark
<ogra> sladen, i'll come if no ubuntu schedule gets in the way
<JaneW> wiki
<highvoltage> JaneW: ok, we can make a time in the next meeting then
<JaneW> etc etc
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes sure
<JaneW> ok thanks guys
<ogra> adjourned :)
<JaneW> cbx33: I support the idea 100% I just think we need to prioritise the release now
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> totally JaneW 
<sladen> ogra: groovy
<JaneW> ok back to #edubuntu
<ogra> release >> SoC + conferences
<ogra> this SoC stuff is pretty distracting
<JaneW> ogra: well some SoC has to slide in before release
<JaneW> sorry
<ogra> yeah, but i spend about 3h/day answering SoC questions
<ogra> and thats not in a row 
<juliux> g8
<flint> ogra, I had a conflict and was unable to attend.  I opine that this was most productive.  I particularly liked the chalkboard...
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-16
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 May 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Meyer> sei
* #ubuntu-meeting  [freenode-info]  help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 11 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 May 05:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 20:00: Community Council | 17 May 20:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 04:00: Edubuntu
<sfllaw> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 11 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 May 17:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 08:00: Community Council | 17 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 16:00: Edubuntu
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 May 00:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 15:00: Community Council | 17 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 23:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<mdz> morning all
<Kinnison> Hi mdz
<sfllaw> mdz: Morning.
<Riddell> hi
<seb128> hey mdz
<ogra> *yawn*
<fabbione> morning
<JaneW> ping: BenC, doko, dholbach, heno,  Kamion, keybuk, Mithrandir, mvo,  pitti, 
<dholbach> pong
<Mithrandir> ehlo
<Keybuk> JaneW: 
<ranf> hi
* mvo waves
* pitti waves
<JaneW> waiting for BenC, doko,  Kamion,  
* ogra gets hi baht trousers, so many waves here
<ogra> *his bath 
<Kamion> hello
<heno> hello
<sfllaw> ogra: No Pants Day was last week.
<ogra> :P
<JaneW> still waiting for BenC & doko
<mdz> time to get started
* pitti calls doko
<mdz> will SMS  BenC
<fabbione> somebody sends an SMS to benc?
<fabbione> score
<mdz> sfllaw: you're up first
<sfllaw> Backwards again?
<sfllaw> STATISTICS
<sfllaw> ==========
<sfllaw> Since last week's Distro meeting...
<sfllaw> Unconfirmed and unassigned bugs of severity >= normal: 1218 -> 1152
<sfllaw> Needs Info bugs: 1341 -> 1356
<sfllaw> Dapper bugs: 106 -> 104
<sfllaw> Bugs without packages: 1056 -> 998
<sfllaw> Ever since we started the current Bug Day, until now, we have closed 316 bugs.
<sfllaw> SUMMARY
<sfllaw> =======
<sfllaw> Bug triaging, bug triaging, bug triaging.
<sfllaw> Met with lifeless and BenC about kernel bug triaging.
<sfllaw> Organised stuff in the wiki to support bug triaging.
<sfllaw> Collected volunteers to do bug triaging, and then trained them.
<sfllaw> To do: Create the dial-up team.
<sfllaw> And more triaging.
<pitti> doko's mobile is off, sorry
<infinity> pitti: The same doko who just joined the channel?
<mdz> pitti: he just joined
<pitti> oh, heh; doko: good morning :)
<Riddell> "dial-up team" good idea, kppp needs some testing
<sfllaw> I should probably fix my WvDial bugs too, eh?
<infinity> sfllaw: Yes please, so I can sync your Debian changes.
<mdz> sfllaw: might want to skip the headings and otherwise shorten your paste, so it doesn't get so throttled
<sfllaw> Ah.  I wasn't ready, so I was typing the summary on the fly.
<sfllaw> I expected to be on the end, this week.
<mdz> aha
<mdz> sfllaw: when there are stragglers, we often start at the opposite end ;-)
<mdz> sfllaw: thanks for the stats
<mdz> wiki is looking good as well
<mdz> seb128: next?
<seb128> this week: bugs triage and fixing (still lot of new bugs, not easy to keep up with dholbach busy on icons and other stuff most of the time)
<seb128> next week: bugs triage and fixing
<pitti> seb128: that's 100% the same as last week :)
<mdz> dholbach: I asked mvo to see if he could help you with icons
<seb128> pitti: yeah, my weeks are boring :p
<dholbach> mdz: yes, I'll chat with him after the meeting - thanks.
<seb128> pitti: but I didn't mention dholbach being busy previous week I think 
* sivang is here as well
<mdz> seb128: any new bugs of note?
<seb128> "of note"?
<pitti> seb128: I think I shall find some time this week to tackle the gnomevfs naming weirdness, maybe with some hints from you
<mdz> seb128: worth mentioning
<seb128> pitti: would be nice :)
<seb128> mdz: not really, most of new bugs are duplicates or minor issues
<mdz> that's my impression as well
<seb128> mdz: the number of dapper milestoned bugs is going down
<seb128> which is good :)
<dholbach> yeah
<mdz> seb128: thanks
<mdz> Riddell: next?
<Riddell> done: flight 7 testing, linuxtag meetings, memory requirements testing, breezy upgrade testing, bugfixing, ubiquity programming
<Riddell> also: testing heno's winfoss (really nice), testing new adept
<Riddell> next week: bug triage and fixing
<mdz> Riddell: happy with ubiquity now?
<Riddell> mdz: I've some changes to push today but yes it's working well
<mdz> Riddell: I came across that old ICEauthority ownership bug and thought it warranted a look for dapper; any other long-standing bugs that deserve attention for the release?
<Riddell> changing timezones needs to be looked at, it doesn't make the symlinks correctly
<Kamion> ubiquity worldclock needs to be sorted out or deferred
<Kamion> and the qtparted comes-up-with-the-wrong-size bug needs to be sorted
<pitti> mdz: in kubuntu? gdm has a function for sanitizing .ICEauthority, this could be copied if necessary (it's not nice, but works)
<Riddell> pitti: interesting
<Kamion> Riddell: would you mind subscribing to ubiquity bugmail? a lot of the new ones coming in are KDE-specific
<Riddell> Kamion: probably deferred
<pitti> Riddell: let's talk after the meeting if you want
<mdz> pitti: I referred to bug #8785
<Riddell> Kamion: ok (although any that mention kde already come though to me)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 8785 in kdelibs "kdeinit changes ownership of ~/.ICEauthority if run via (a kde program via) sudo" [Major,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/8785
<Kamion> Riddell: they do? you don't show up as subscribed
<Kamion> oh, you have a mad ubuntu-bugs filter I guess
<Riddell> Kamion: I filter ubuntu-ubugs on kde and kubuntu
<Riddell> mdz: that one should be fixed, will investigate
<mdz> Riddell: yes, I know; I made the fix ;-)
<mdz> it was 1.5 years old and seemed to generate a lot of questions on the lists and forums
<mdz> anyway, something to look for as you're browsing the bug list.  fixing that sort of bug is a win for polish
<mdz> Riddell: thanks
<mdz> pitti: next?
* ogra always thought that was an exclusive k3b bug
<pitti> reducing-duplication: no progress since last week
<pitti> firewall: bounty deadline is over; I contacted Carsten three weeks ago, and again last week; the final settlements with his uni got delayed a bit because he got ill, but now he is well and up again and promised to contact me soon
<pitti> general stuff done in the past two week:
<pitti>  * some security updates (quite a few not-too-terrible ones are outstanding, will catch up soon)
<pitti>  * bug fixing
<pitti>  * cups 1.2 final! yeah!
<pitti>  * fixed a bunch of packages missing a POT file; together with mvo and Riddell we killed the original list; carlos updated it yesterday, we are almost there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MissingPotFiles
<pitti>  * bug triage status: At the expense of spending half of my day on Malone every day, I am now in control of my bugs; assigned and +packagebugs (exception: gnome-cups-manager) are all at least looked at, have correct severity, and the low-hanging fruit bugs and most of the really bad ones are fixed
<mdz> ogra: it's only that a lot of people ran k3b under sudo
<pitti> plan for next week:
<pitti>  * deal with final bits of POT file generation in packages, coordinate with carlos, build new langpacks tomorrow
<ogra> ah
<pitti>  * start gnome-cups-manager bug triage and fix some which bite many people
<pitti>  * finally deal with SoC applications (yes, I'm a slacker, sorry)
<JaneW> pitti!
<ogra> pitti, we could send you pygi :)
<JaneW> we have till 22 to finalise those, so we mustn't lag to much...
<pitti> ogra: pygi what for?
<mdz> pitti: any dapper-targeted bugs on your list?
<ogra> pitti, nagging you to do your SoC stuff, he's pretty good in that :)
<pitti> mdz: yes, 8 so far
<mdz> pitti: all fixable in time for the release?
<pitti> mdz: I'll take a look at my bug list again soon and will probably mark some more, but the current list is pretty good, I think
<seb128> (pitti: thank you for not mentionning me on the POT update task :p)
<pitti> mdz: 'Gimp help files are not installed by default' (bug 14597) requires some discussion, the rest should be fine
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 14597 in gimp "Gimp help files are not installed by default" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/14597
<pitti> seb128: oops, sorry
<seb128> np ;)
<pitti> yes, seb128 rocked there
<pitti> mdz: oh, bug 23102 is not for dapper, sorry
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 23102 in gnome-volume-manager "Enable autoprinter by default" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/23102
<mdz> unfortunately there are quite a few bugs with bogus milestones due to random people setting them
<mdz> but I try to prune the list from time to time
<mdz> I've asked for malone to show in a tooltip who set the milestone, and also to have some access control for changing it
<mdz> thanks pitti
<mdz> ogra: next?
<ogra> * general: doc work, bug triage, linuxtag talk, fixed all non whishlist ltsp bugs, dropped all unused sounds from gcompris binaries (gains 5.5M on the CD)
<ogra> * next-week: triage/fix RC bugs, flight 8, final polish (artwork/docs) for edubuntu CDs
<mdz> ogra: how was linuxtag for you?
<ogra> great
<ogra> i'm invited to talk in front of teachers from a district in baden wuertemberg
<ogra> (mvo's area)
<sfllaw> Stylish!
<ogra> they probably want to use edubuntu on several schools there
<mdz> about how many people attended the Ubuntu talks?
<ogra> marks ~500
<ogra> i havent seen raphnik
<ogra> mine ~70-80
<ogra> Riddell, might know about raphniks
<Riddell> he had about the same size audience as ogra did
<dholbach> mvo: we had about 120+?
<mvo> yeah > 100 I think, the room was pretty filed
<mdz> ogra: is the final artwork/docs ready to be uploaded today?
<ogra> for me the intresting part was that the people followed me for another 30min afterwards :)
<ogra> mdz, yep
<mdz> ogra: did they ask for your autograph? ;-)
<dholbach> they asked for mine! WHOOO!
<ogra> hehe, nope, but a lot ltsp and edubuntu questions :)
<juliux> dholbach, and you didnt give me one ;)
<mdz> nice
<mdz> ogra: thanks
* mvo hugs dholbach
<mdz> mvo: next?
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> * linuxtag presentation with dholbach
<mvo> * bug triage/fixing (lvm2, devmapper, update-manager, unattended-upgrades, gnome-app-install, update-notifier, dist-upgrader, ..)
<mvo> * upgrade testing
<mvo> * Goggle SoC review
<mvo> * 3rd party packages work (for the app-installer)
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> * more bugfixing/bug triage
<mvo> * help dholbach with the icons
<mvo> * setup ppc auto-dist-upgrade (either infinites ppc or dholbachs new but aged g4 ppc machine)
<fabbione> mvo: do you want access to mine too?
<fabbione> i can slam it somewhere online for you
<mdz> mvo: for some reason, awareness of the dist-upgrade feature in update-manager seems to be low still
<mdz> mvo: according to elmo there were relatively few downloads of it during the days after beta
<mvo> mdz: I can announce it again (maybe on u-d-a?)
<mdz> I've also corrected people on -users about the best way to upgrade
<mdz> I think that people just don't click through to the upgrade instructions if they have done it before
<mvo> fabbione: yeah, lets talk about it after the meeting
<mdz> or read the release notes
<fabbione> mvo: yup
<mdz> mvo: maybe something on the fridge?  someone's blog on planet?
<dholbach> a blog entry with screenshot might help :)
<dholbach> i can do that
<mdz> ok, cool
<mvo> dholbach: can you do it? that would be lovely
* mvo should consider getting a log
<dholbach> mvo: add it to the list of things to chat about
<mvo> blog
<mdz> mvo: any bugs found in upgrade testing?
<mvo> mdz: no, we look good currently, one issue with nvidia-glx and dpkg-divert needs more investigation
<mdz> I hate that package
<infinity> Amen.
* fabbione sighs
<infinity> mvo: I seem to recall following up to that bug.
<mvo> and I got some positive feedback from people doing a sucessful upgrade
<mdz> add to the edgy list: remove dpkg-divert from dpkg
<fabbione> mvo: did you address the main -> universe demotion thingy?
<mvo> infinity: yes you did, the ball is in my court
<mvo> dpkg 2.0!
<Keybuk> mdz: can we remove update-alternatives too?
<mvo> fabbione: not yet
<fabbione> mvo: ok thanks
<Keybuk> mvo: http://multiarch.alioth.debian.org/dpkg2.pdf
<mdz> Keybuk: I'd like to, but I think that touches more packages ;-)
<mdz> mvo: thanks
<mdz> Mithrandir: next?
<Mithrandir> misc: flight-7 release, bug triage, booked flights to Paris, SoC application rating
<Mithrandir> next week: flight 8 preparation, some popcon fiddling, casper bugfixes, bug triage, Constitution Day (May 17th)
<Mithrandir> blocked: no
<mvo> Keybuk: cool! will we get it for edgy?
<Mithrandir> I'm going to announce the flight 8 freeze on u-d-a this time, probably on Wednesday evening or something.
<JaneW> Mithrandir: yes please give ogra at least a day's warning...
<heno> Mithrandir: did you get my popcon layout stuff (by email)?
<mdz> Mithrandir: do you think we can trim any further unionfs memory usage in casper?
<mdz> the kernel module locking is a tricky one
<JaneW> mdz: and the flight announcement to go to u-d-a as well this time?
<Mithrandir> heno: no, I'm planning to do that and cron popcon today or tomorrow.
<ogra> JaneW, he already warned me :)
<JaneW> ogra: good :)
<mdz> JaneW,Mithrandir: yes, fine...as the sab wishes it
<Mithrandir> mdz: I'll have to test a bit, but yes, we should be able to cut it somewhat.
<mdz> I wonder if we should add a low-memory boot option which disables l-r-m
<Mithrandir> mdz: I need to see what unionfs thinks about me removing files underneath its feet.
<ogra> mdz++
<mdz> 19M is a lot of memory
<ogra> yep
<Kamion> we're 5M down on that
<ogra> was a major gain in ltsp to drop it
<Mithrandir> heno: that is, I got it, but I haven't done anything about it.
<Kamion> if you're including templates.dat-old
<mdz> Kamion: I mean l-r-m alone is 19M
<Kamion> oh, wow
<mdz> yes, nvidia+nvidia_legacy is close to 10
<mdz> and I expect very rarely used on the live CD
<pitti> mdz: it's just nice for the sake of installing it with ubiquity
<Mithrandir> hmm, it'd be sweet if we could use a compressed tmpfs instead of just a regular one, too.
<ogra> we should probably also drop xscreensaver-data-gl from the liveCd as well then 
<Mithrandir> but that's eft material, I think.
<mdz> pitti: we don't need the modules in memory for that; they'll be linked on first boot of the real system
<pitti> ah, yes
<infinity> mdz: capser could write out a temporary /etc/default/l-r-m that disabled nvidia and fglrx linking, so only the networky modules are built.
<mdz> thoughts on whether we should drop everything but the wireless driver from l-r-m on the live CD?
<Mithrandir> infinity: sure, that'd work.
<mdz> that would save us 17M of memory
<mdz> and folks who really need them can just run lrm-manager, right?
<Kamion> ogra: at the moment we have no mechanism for something to be in desktop (i.e. installed by default on d-i installs) but not on the live CD, and given how ubiquity works I don't think it's wise to try to create one
<ogra> Kamion, well, yes, but its probably an option for edgy
<infinity> mdz: Erm, if we fiddle with /etc/default/l-r-m, then lrm-manager will also ignore them.  But casper could let them link and then unlink them, I guess.
<mdz> infinity: indeed
<mdz> Mithrandir: could you and infinity brainstorm about that a bit?  it's well worth the savings I think
<Mithrandir> mdz: sure.
<mdz> so long as it's a single command to get them back if the user really wants them, that's easy to document
<mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
<mdz> Kinnison: next?
<Kamion> ogra: no, I don't think it is either, it's a fundamental problem
<Kamion> ogra: ubiquity cannot copy it to the installed system if it's not on the live CD
<ogra> right
<ogra> :/
<Kinnison> gnome-power-manager: Lots of bugs dealt with for this, I have another update for later today related to brightness buttons.
<Kinnison> distro-other: Tidied an acpi-support issue for toshibas, got new upstream for powernowd done, various other bits of bug investigation etc. Provided fairly simple consultancy on dbus stuff for gnome logout screen.
<mvo> Kamion: would it be possible to install it on the target system with apt (or python-apt)?
<Kinnison> launchpad: Helped with the multi-libraryfilealias issue a bit more, vaguely attended the soyuz-workup-for-dapper meeting.
<Kinnison> ongoing: Some more g-p-m stuff, and continuing with the general bugs today. I only have one day for "next week" because I'll be off work moving house.
<Kinnison> bug-status: The bug list isn't shrinking but the growth rate is smaller :-)
<Kinnison> request: Will someone please volunteer to take on g-p-m for the week I'm away?
<sladen> if lspci gives no ATI/Nvidia PCI IDs, it would seem logical not to build them on that boot
<Kamion> mvo: requires network access
<Kamion> mvo: which we only really want to do for language packs, imho
<mvo> Kamion: agreed
<Kinnison> paris: finally heard I'm going to be going as a soyuz representative, need to book flights
<Kinnison> [end] 
<Kinnison> sorry, dunno why that took so long to get through
<mdz> Kinnison: do you expect it to need anything more than watching for uber-critical bugs?
* Kinnison doesn't expect g-p-m to need more than critical fixes, and I don't expect any of those
* Kinnison just doesn't want people left without the ability to suspend, esp. since we're working to make the logout dialog signal g-p-m to do the work
<pitti> Kinnison: we still need to sort out that dbus atconsole bug one way or the other
<pitti> I think that's fairly critical
<Kinnison> pitti: Yes, but is that not a dbus issue directly?
<mdz> that sounded messy to fix for dapper
<pitti> Kinnison: well, it is in our ubuntu version
<pitti> I doubt that we'll get a dbus solution for dapper
<pitti> so we should at least do the 'cooperative' workaround with g-p-m checking the foreground console itself
<Kinnison> pitti: can we talk about this after the meeting? I may have time today to engineer a solution into g-p-m
<pitti> Kinnison: yes, let's
<Kinnison> pitti: cool
<sladen> Kinnison: I'll see how the next week goes, and look over the g-p-m bugs with slightly more attention... 
<Kinnison> sladen: thanks
<mdz> ok
<mdz> Kinnison: thanks
* Kinnison will have his cellphone and will endeavour to put his new landline on the wiki as soon as he knows it
<mdz> Keybuk: next?
<mvo> sladen: ping me in case you need a sponsor 
<Keybuk> gah, need to unbury my postit
<Keybuk> nothing much to report, fixed a whole lot of bugs, had an n-m bug day and got them all filed upstream, decided to drop the iftab-fixing code after all as it was generating more bugs than it closed; we can look at a Debian/SuSE-style fix later. done SoC stuff. done some ftp master stuff.
<mdz> Keybuk: any particular bug targets for next week?
<Keybuk> I haven't got any particular bugs I need to fix before release
<Keybuk> so I'm going to go roaming through Malone looking for some that could use a loving hand
<JaneW> SoC evals for you then
<sfllaw> JaneW: You're a quick draw.
<mdz> Keybuk: "exclude bugs with packages specified" could use a scan for major issues, as we discussed
<Keybuk> yup
<mdz> JaneW: when is the deadline?
<JaneW> sfllaw: desperation breeds it
<Kinnison> Keybuk: there may be low-hanging fruit in the powermanagement arena if you want to have a flick through gnome-power-manager acpi-support acpid laptop-mode-tools et al.
<sfllaw> 22 May, is it?
<Keybuk> JaneW: I did SoC stuff this morning
<mdz> horrible timing, that
<JaneW> mdz: we need to have selected, ranked, and matched to mentors by 22 May
<JaneW> mdz: yes the timing sucks
<mdz> JaneW: I can help with the ranking starting next week
<JaneW> but after that it should slack off for a week or 2 as things settle in
<JaneW> mdzL great thanks, you can do the final sweep and approve reject round
<mdz> ok
<mdz> Keybuk: thanks
<JaneW> Keybuk: yes I noticed, thanks
<mdz> Kamion: next?
* heno just got the candidates to debate amongst themselves on the mailing list, hoping that the good choices will become clear
<JaneW> heno: that was a good idea
<mdz> heno: guerilla selection ;-)
<Kamion> ubiquity: Keeping on top of bugs, just about. Worked on manual partitioner correctness, missing features relative to d-i (hw-detect, initramfs-tools setup), keymaps, i18n, memory usage. Still spending a fair bi
<Kamion> t of time correcting mistaken duplications/rejections/etc. by triagers. :-(
<Kamion> next-week: More of the same. I urgently need to sort out final string changes, and look at UTC/local hardware clock configuration and the remaining crash bugs. Also CD image renaming.
<mdz> Kamion: is the infamous LinuxTag ubiquity bug fixed?
<Kamion> mdz: LinuxTag the what?
<mdz> Kamion: apparently there was a crash during the demo at linuxtag
<ogra> Kamion, ask mvo and dholbach :)
<JaneW> heno: and helps to find sustained commitment and enthusiasm not just one good write up
<dholbach> I couldn't reproduce that at all afterwards.
<Kamion> mdz: nobody identified it as such to me
<mdz> I believe it was mvo who mentioned it to me
<Kamion> mdz: it may well be fixed but I have no idea what it was
<Kamion> dholbach: did you get a crash dump?
<mvo> Kamion: we had a crash on stage when we demoed ubiquity, but i wasnt able to reproduce it on my home machine (we had it on dholbachs laptop)
<dholbach> No, sorry - I just tried to save what was to save.
<Kamion> this is the first I've heard of it
<ogra> mdz, given that half the world crashed for them it might not even have been an ubiquity bug
<mdz> note to all: if ubiquity ever crashes, TELL KAMION
<dholbach> I'll watch out for it during my next test installs.
<mvo> dholbach: maybe we still have the log?
<Kamion> about 80% of crashes are duplicates, but there are still a few new ones appearing
<mvo> dholbach: on your machine?
<dholbach> mvo: I'll have a look.
<mdz> Kamion: duplicates of fixed crashes or remaining ones?
<Kamion> mdz: bit of both
<Kamion> there's a really WEIRD one to do with partman error handling that I haven't tracked down yet; it's getting a lot of dups
<mdz> ok, time
<mdz> Kamion: thanks
<JaneW> me next?
<mdz> JaneW: yes
<JaneW> This week:
<JaneW> * Canonical Monthly Report input - long one this month!
<JaneW> * Ubuntu Dev Team Meeting report, got eaten up in an OOo crash and all changes vanished. Sorry everyone. I haven't had a chance to redo it, so will merge it with this week's report.
<JaneW> * Google SoC, added new SoC info and co-ord page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SummerofCode2006, corresponded with mentors and students re applications, co-ordinated with Google's SoC administrator, reviewed applications and assisted with rankings, and ploughed through SoC ML posts and asked and answered questions as appropriate.
<JaneW> * Edubuntu: Set up EC, inducted new council, approved first Edubuntu member and sent out notices. Team meeting to discuss tech progress (looking great thanks ogra!), cookbook progress and what is still required to complete, artwork - nearing completion ogra to package this soon and explicitly show all 3 themes to management for approval. 
<JaneW> * Assisted with UDS planning, responded to questions and gathered request for sponsorship applications and prepared them for management consideration.
<JaneW> * Worked with cbx33 to start a proposal to showcase Edubuntu at BETT 2007
<JaneW> To Do in next week:
<Keybuk> "UDS" ?
<JaneW> * Ubuntu dev team meeting report, asap, to make up for last week's lack of report.
<JaneW> * Get all SoC applications properly evaluated by the mentors and ranked. Top 30 to be unique projects and students and assigned to (preferably unique)mentors.
<JaneW> * respond to press enquiries re Ubuntu's SoC participation.
<JaneW> * Plan UDS further, notify successful and unsuccessful sponsorship applicants of their applications status, contact other invited guests, figure out logistics of how to handle UDS scheduling with Jamesh's 'Schedul-o-matic', co-ord UDS staff arrangements.
<mvo> JaneW: did you report the OOo crash to doko :P ?
<JaneW> * * Edubuntu: Look at including Chris' Installing Edubuntu Tutorial video, need to get it in .ogg format too. Chase cookbook deadline to make sure we'll have something completed in time, make sure artwork is packaged and completed successfully.
<JaneW> * Whatever else comes up.
<JaneW> sorry very verbose!
<JaneW> Ubuntu dev Summit
<mdz> JaneW: speaking of the monthly report, saw some odd stuff in there...mentions of LTSP changes which were surely made months earlier
<dholbach> I thought that was UFK now! :-p
<infinity> Shouldn't that be "Ubuntu Avec Fromage" or something?
* ogra still likes UbuntuFrenchKiss :)
<JaneW> mvo: I think it was self-caused, and preceded by several FF crashes
<JaneW> a reboot fixed it
* dholbach high-fives ogra
* ogra high fives back
<sivang> infinity: hmmm
<Kinnison> UbuntuFrenchLetter
<sivang> infinity: sounds yummy
<JaneW> mdz: yes the LTSP change was mentioned in beta announcement, but it transpired it was pretty old news, sorry
<ogra> mdz, i merged all changes we did in flights for the beta
<mdz> JaneW: I'm always happy to review the report input with you before it goes out
<JaneW> mdz: yes I think I will do that next time, I was not wanting to bother you, as it was a busy time
<ogra> (in the announcement that is)
<mdz> JaneW: doesn't take long to scan over it; much less time than when I try to write something
<JaneW> mdz: noted
<mdz> JaneW: thanks
<mdz> iwj: next?
<iwj> Last week: firefox bugs, dpkg bugs, gs bugs, other bugs.
<iwj> Last week: firefox 1.5.0.3.  Frank Shoep's ff themes.
<iwj> Next week: more of the same.
<infinity> iwj: Doing firefox 1.5.0.3 again next week? :)
<iwj> :-P
<mdz> iwj: anything notable on the dpkg radar?
<iwj> Not really, no.
<iwj> infinity: seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if a 1.5.0.4 turned up at the most inconvenient possible moment.
<pitti> iwj: do you happen to have any inclination to update tbird to 1.5.0.2?
<mdz> iwj: we could use your help in a lot of areas beyond firefox; are there any critical issues remaining there?
<pitti> tbird is fairly critical; I can do it myself if nobody else has time, though
<iwj> I have a list of 13 bugs that ought to be investigated and probably fixed.
<iwj> But I might have a bit of time left over.  Anywhere in particular I should direct my attention ?
<mdz> iwj: if they are important to fix for dapper, please set a dapper milestone and I wil monitor that list
<infinity> pitti: It's on my list, as I have to merge some stuff from asac.
<mdz> iwj: sfllaw is the person to speak to regarding bug targets
<infinity> pitti: I was waiting for him to get 1.5.0.2 into Debian (which he's done), but the merge is non-trivial, since we're forked currently.
<iwj> mdz: sfllaw> Right.
<mdz> iwj: it's worth having a conversation and seeing where he needs the most help
<mdz> ok
<mdz> iwj: thanks
<mdz> infinity: next?
<pitti> infinity: so maybe we shuold just update our version for now to get the plethora of security fixes?
<infinity> last week distro: Been hacking on initramfs-tools (and related: evms, mdadm, lvm) bugs, and when I get stumped there and need a brain refresher, I've context-switched to pulling PHP patches from CVS, fixing random bugs on my list, and doing archive maintenance.
<infinity> last week buildd: Did a mass give-back on the failed builds, monitoring those, also going through all the failed logs from a recent -autotest run and starting to categorise and triage those.
<infinity> next week distro: Should be uploading a mess of initramfs-tools versions (well, if I do this right, only a few), plus some pending UVF bumps, and the PHP security junk.
<infinity> next week buildd: Need to finish going through build failures, make the universe logs available to MOTU, and start another -autotest run.
<infinity> general 1: During the last couple of weeks of release crunch, I'm intending to mangle my core hours a bit more than usual to be more available to the Europeans.  This will be particularly useful if I end up having to drive launchpad by hand at any point.
<infinity> general 2: While it's not strictly my domain as core-dev or a Canonical employee, I'm sick of getting bug reports about segfaults caused by symbol clashes when two MySQL client libs are loaded at the same time.  I'd like to transition all of universe to libmysqlclient15 and drop the old ones from the archive, if that's okay.
<dholbach> infinity: I can file bugs for that, if you want me to.
<dholbach> infinity: the MOTU crowd is happy to work on those bugs.
<infinity> dholbach: Sure, but the time it takes to file a bug is about the time it takes to edit debian/control and upload.
<Mithrandir> infinity: that's mostly just rebuilding with changed Build-deps, isn't it?
<infinity> Mithrandir: Yeah.
<fabbione> Mithrandir: most of them yes
<dholbach> infinity: i have a massfile script :)
<infinity> dholbach: Either way, if you're prefer to hand it to MOTU, go nuts, but I do want to see these bugs fixed.
<infinity> Since the symbol clashes affect packages in main, and the bug reports are never well-aimed.
<mdz> infinity: can you post the list of build failures to -devel to distribute that task some?
<infinity> ("apache crashes, help!" being the most common type of report)
<ogra> tell them to use apache2 :P
<infinity> mdz: Yeahp, I'll do so when done triaging, so people with more QA time can poke at them.
<infinity> ogra: Same problem.
<ogra> infinity, i wasnt serious :)
<mdz> infinity: thanks
<mdz> heno: next?
<heno>  * kubuntu-winfoss: completed
<heno>  * example-content: making some changes based on user feedback.
<heno>  * ubuntu accessibility: I need to devote this week to testing and following up reports. The core AT packages work reliably on my installed system, but people are reporting mixed results on the Live CD. Key applications like Firefox and OpenOffice still have poor AT support (but that's true of every distro). Ubiquity reveals some access info when poked, but doesn't work with the screen reader.
<heno>  * Other: We have two very promising SoC a11y projects emerging; a new on-screen keyboard and a new magnifier
<mdz> heno: silbs noted that you were handling the community-contributed wallpaper to be included in dapper; I remember that being in example-content but it seems to be gone now.  does it have a new home?
<Riddell> kubuntu-winfoss is lovely, thanks heno 
* ogra hopes not the Xgl magnifier 
<JaneW> heno: have you managed to find the best proposal for each yet?
<JaneW> heno: let me know if you want me to find all the urls for you or something
<dholbach> mdz: I was supposed to package that for Universe, but nobody provided me with a list or tarball yet.
<heno> mdz: it's no longer in e-c, right. It should be packaged with aubuntu-artwork I guess or separately
<mdz> I'm happy for it to go in -artwork; as I recall it was reasonably sized
<heno> the art team ws supposed tp pick some. I'll ping them about it
<dholbach> Ok.
<Riddell> heno: kwwii will be looking at kubuntuifying example-content, I'll need to think about the best way to package that
<mdz> Riddell: what sort of content would be kubuntu-specific?
<heno> and if they still don't manage I can pick some
<Riddell> mdz: not much, just stuff like the presentation slides with kubuntu logo instead of ubuntu
<heno> Riddell: OK let me know what comes out of that
<heno> JaneW: there are still 2-3 good candidates for each project
<JaneW> heno: ok let them fight it out :)
<mdz> Riddell: if it's different enough to be a separate package, it's probably too late; that would need casper integration etc.
<mdz> Riddell: but if there's something small we could add to the existing package, that's grand
<Riddell> ok, we'll keep it small
<mdz> heno: thanks
<mdz> fabbione: next?
<fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: no more testing done, hopefully is gold.
<fabbione> * X bug squashing: down to ~320 bugs. Don't trust LP bug count. Next is to check one evdev problem that is unclear if it is due to new upstream or user configs mess up. Usual stuff like triaging, bug fixing on going.
<fabbione> * last week: X bugs. Started training zakame to go full power on X.
<fabbione> * next week: holidays. Any volunteer to keep going on X??? NO??? ladies!!!!
<fabbione> * notes: due to some real life events, i am 99.999% sure i will not be in Paris.
<infinity> fabbione: What about the evdev build failure on some arches?
<mdz> yay for X bug volunteers ;-)
<fabbione> infinity: that's in the list
<infinity> fabbione: Kay, cool.  Thanks.
<mdz> fabbione: enjoy the holidays
<fabbione> mdz: don't open champagne now.. let see how long he will last :)
<fabbione> mdz: thanks
<mdz> doko_: next?
<doko_> - openoffice.org: new upload, nothing spectecular, -l10n still problematic on the buildd, no further progress with scim.
<doko_> - java updates: finished, sending status by email.
<doko_> - vnc4: updated, not yet uploaded. vnc (3.x) is in main, but still uses an oldish Xfree86 server for the build.
<doko_> - bug triage: not much progress since last update. assigned RC reports: seven, addressing the license issues today.
<doko_> - next week: Debconf (leaving tomorrow morning)
<sfllaw> Oh yeah, I'm going to that too.
<JaneW> enjoy mexico
<sfllaw> Leaving Saturday morning.
<mdz> doko_: did that ooo-build update represent new upstream code?  the changelog was a bit unclear
<doko_> fabbione: could need your input on vnc
<doko_> mdz: two patches
<fabbione> doko_: to use the new server?
<mdz> doko_: ok
<Keybuk> doko_: ooo is kinda not building/installable atm, no?
<doko_> fabbione: yes
<fabbione> doko_: well i am not sure if i will have the time.. but we can try
<infinity> Keybuk: It's building fine, except for the -l10n package, which I'll be looking into shortly.
<doko_> Keybuk: ooo does, ooo-l10n not, doesn't happen in a new chroot
<Keybuk> ahh
<Keybuk> I did notice that one of the help packages showed up in anastacia
<doko_> will have a look
<mdz> doko_: ok, thanks. see you at debconf
<mdz> dholbach: next?
<dholbach> BugSitutation: HUGDAY next week - Kernel stuff? After LinuxTag and icon stuff went down from 3000 -> 1600 unread desktop-bugs mails, more catching up to do
<dholbach> IconSituation: artwork deadline next week, new Human icons, look into xcursors to add, other artwork (wait on Jeff and kwii), possible tangerine split, hack on icon table on the weekend
<dholbach> this week (done): icons, bugs, lots of uvf exception processing
<dholbach> this week (todo): more bug fixing, gparted update(?)
<dholbach> next week: more bug fixing, some unresolved fixes (brltty, scrollkeeper), look into gnome-pilot, cd testing, motu unbuildable packages list(?)
<Kamion> dholbach: I'm pretty unsure about the gparted update at this stage
<dholbach> Kamion: I understand - I sent a mail to you and Kinnison this morning.
<Kamion> dholbach: the fixes that it might bring in seem counterbalanced by the risk of importing a new advanced partitioner three weeks before release
<dholbach> Kamion: I'm happy with either decision.
<Kamion> dholbach: yeah, read it
<dholbach> Ok.
<dholbach> I'll communicate that to Bart.
<mdz> dholbach: do you have the final artwork (minus beta markings) in hand for when the time comes?
<Kamion> can you look for any particular patches we might want, and see if they can reasonably be backported?
<Kamion> dholbach: give Bart my apologies as well, he did try and I know we started out on this a bit late
<dholbach> mdz: I have to ask Jeff, if there's not a different wallpaper for that.
<dholbach> Kamion: I can do that.
<mdz> dholbach: gnome-pilot seems like a mess; so many bug reports and few people with relevant hardware
<dholbach> mdz: there was a discussion about different gdm circle of friends as well - I'll phone him about that all.
<mdz> dholbach: do we really want it in main for dapper?
<dholbach> I got in touch with upstream who provided me with a tarball - unfortunately it didn't build
<dholbach> mdz: that depends, if we can rip out the functionality out of evolution - seb128?
<Keybuk> gnome-pilot is fundamentally broken :)
<seb128> some people use it
<mdz> some people try ;-)
<seb128> I'm not that comfortable with dropping it now
<dholbach> I don't have necessary hardware as well, I was just glad that I got in contact with upstream people.
<mdz> does anyone here use it?
<mdz> apparently not ;-)
<dholbach> Hum...
<seb128> hehe
<sladen> no.  pilot-xfer and jpilot when I used to...
<mdz> seb128: ok, if you think we're safer keeping it
<Keybuk> I've lost every pilot I've ever owned
<Keybuk> if we didn't have gnome-pilot, people wouldn't nag me that the /dev/pilot symlink doesn't work :)
<mdz> I worry for jbailey if someone needs support with it ;-)
<seb128> mdz: I'm not happy with the software itself, but I think some people use it and we have no better alternative to ship atm
<sladen> Keybuk: Bug Between Keyboard and Screen.
<dholbach> Seems like we do the update for Edgy. :-/
<seb128> mdz: speaking about support, do you think we can drop "disks-admin" now?
<ogra> whee, that'd be great to drop
<mdz> seb128: it's broken?
<seb128> mdz: it doesn't do anything useful and is misleading in the way it has buttons supposed to be useful
<mdz> seb128: ok, fine with me
<seb128> like you can change the mointpoint for a partition but it's not change fstab
<dholbach> grrr g-s-t grrr
<seb128> s/change/changing
<mdz> dholbach: want to rewrite it for edgy? ;-)
<Mithrandir> seb128: it's useful for the live cd.
<ogra> does it still open nautilus with root privileges through the browse button ? 
<seb128> and layout get messed with some locales, and we have several bug saying it doesn't list the partition correctly, etc
<dholbach> mdz: I'd love to work on that with mvo and seb128.
<seb128> ogra: no, that is fixed, but still...
<seb128> Mithrandir: how so?
<ogra> yep
<pitti> mdz: we should rather consider making our Google SoC 2005 bounty  better and integrating it
<pitti> (pysdm)
<mdz> dholbach: what artwork are you waiting on?
<Mithrandir> seb128: people use it to mount their hard drive.
<seb128> Mithrandir: starting it on my box display a bunch of notify bubble saying some /tmp mounts have low space
<Mithrandir> pitti: it's slightly too late to do anything about SoC 2005, isn't it?
<mdz> dholbach: I thought the current Ubuntu stuff was final, modulo the beta text (which you added, right?)
<ogra> hehe
<dholbach> mdz: new icons (more sizes), possible wallpaper/gdm stuff, xcursors I have, not easy to integrate :/
<seb128> Mithrandir: should the liveCD mount detected partitions by default?
<pitti> Mithrandir: I don't understand?
<ogra> pitti, we have 2006 ;)
<dholbach> mdz: I hope it is that way, I can strip that stuff off easily.
<Mithrandir> pitti: oh, sorry, I misread.
<imbrandon> SoC 2006
<dholbach> mdz: I'll have to ask Jeff.
<Mithrandir> seb128: so some people argue.  There's also an UDU spec for that.
<pitti> ogra: so what, the package is there, and the author, too; the package works fine in principle, it could just use some UI polish
<iwj> Are we nearly done here ?  My laptop is about to run out of juice ...
<ogra> pitti, ah, sorry
<mdz> iwj: yes, we are nearly done here. why are you on battery?
<ogra> pitti, i thought you proposed a 2006 bounty
<iwj> mdz: To avoid having to have breakfast at 0830 :-).
<mdz> dholbach: from kwii, you need the final usplash image?
<pitti> no, I'm proposing to make use of our finished ounes :)
<dholbach> mdz: Yes, that's what Riddell told me.
<mdz> dholbach: I think I have that for you (the ubuntu one)
<dholbach> mdz: ok cool.
<mdz> ok
<mdz> dholbach: thanks
<Kamion> seb128: it's problematic due to stuff breaking if it automounts hibernated filesystems
<mdz> I think we will need to extend this meeting officially to ~90 minutes in the future; there are just too many of us
<Kamion> seb128: it should mount Windows partitions, but anything else is painful
<mdz> and everyone should get a few minutes if needed
<Kamion> was nice while it lasted (60 minutes)
<mdz> we're always rushing toward the end
<JaneW> mdz: agreed
<mdz> any urgent business to discuss?
<seb128> if we do that please move the 4am one early :)
<Kamion> but since we can manifestly get it done in less, we should be fascist about keeping it to time again
<Riddell> are syncs from debian being processed by ubuntu-archive?
<Kamion> Riddell: yes
<infinity> Riddell: Yes.
<mvo> seb128++
<mdz> Kamion: I think with the current team we get an average of 3 minutes apiece, which doesn't seem to be enough
<Kamion> not necessarily in FIFO order, but they're being processed
<Kamion> mdz: I agree
<Riddell> great, I'll wait patiently then
<mdz> at any rate, we're done for today; adjourned
<mdz> thanks all
<JaneW> thanks
<ogra> thanks
<pitti> thanks all, to
<infinity> Yay.
<pitti> o
<sfllaw> Thanks.
<mvo> thanks
<infinity> Thanks, guys.  Now I can have dinner. :)
<pitti> infinity: enjoy
<sfllaw> mdz: I'll be seeing you and doko at Debconf as well.
<doko_> bye
<dholbach> Thanks.
<seb128> thank you
<pitti> debconfers, have fun!
<sfllaw> mdz: But I think I will be running next week's BugSquad from Mexico.
<fabbione> thanks
<doko_> sfllaw: cool
<sfllaw> pitti: Thank you.
* dholbach hugs sfllaw
* sfllaw hugs dholbach.
<mdz> sfllaw: see you there
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Lure> @schedule Ljubljana
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 11 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 14:00: Community Council | 17 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 12 May 00:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 15:00: Community Council | 17 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 23:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<imbrandon> @schedule Chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 11 May 16:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 07:00: Community Council | 17 May 07:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 11 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 14:00: Community Council | 17 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<kmon> @schedule Spain
<kmon> @schedule Madrid
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Madrid: 11 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 16 May 14:00: Community Council | 17 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Riddell> hi all, who's here?
<freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: Current meeting: Kubuntu | 16 May 20:00: Community Council | 17 May 20:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 04:00: Edubuntu | 26 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<freeflying> Riddell: hi
<kwwii> hi all
<freeflying> kwwii: hi
<Lure> hi 
<uniq> hi.
<Riddell> most important agenda item this evening is that I have a pot of soup on the boil and you must remind me to turn it off in half an hour so it doesn't boil dry
<gringo> ^^
<kmon> lol
<Tonio_> hey
<Lure> Riddell: I do not see it here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings ;-)
<kwwii> we could form a submeeting to discuss these issues and get back to you later
<Riddell> shall we get started?
<Lure> I think so
<Tonio_> yup
* Tonio_ takes a coffee
<Riddell> the feeling at linuxtag was that we should have a kubuntu council
<Riddell> who would approve membership and take decisions at meetings
<Riddell> any thoughts on that?
<Lure> I think it is most appropriate thing to do
<uniq> i agree.
<Riddell> groovy
<Lure> edubuntu already have one, with monthly meetings for membership/community considerations
<freeflying> Riddell: what's the number will be 
<Riddell> I propose we follow the example of edubuntu who have 5 people, at least 1 canonical employee but not more than 2
<Lure> and 3 needed to support
<Lure> (vote)
<Riddell> yes
<freeflying> we now onlt you are paid employee
<freeflying> s/onlt/only
<Riddell> yes, for now
<Riddell> so next question is how to choose the members
<Tonio_> I agree following the example of edubuntu is a nice idea
<Riddell> edubuntu just chose the most likely candidates
<Lure> just collect candidates
<Riddell> we could also try and have a vote on launchpad but I've no idea how well that would work
<Riddell> maybe we should try candidates and if we have lots we can work out some sort of vote
<uniq> good idea.
<kmon> maybe create a list like kubuntu-announcements and use that as a way to tell people a poll has been created on launchpad?
<Riddell> so, who wants to stand?
<uniq> 1 year mandates?
<Tonio_> Riddell: raphink isn't here, but I'm certain he would like to
<Riddell> kmon: kubuntu-devel is good enough I think
<Riddell> uniq: sounds good
<Riddell> I'll stand for it
<freeflying> Riddell: at least ,you  shall descide the candidates
* Lure proposes obvious candidates: raphink, Tonio_, Hobbsee
<Tonio_> I would maybe too
<kmon> Riddell: if kubuntu grows it may be needed in the future... but I agree now it's not necesary
<Riddell> I'd like Tonio_ to stand too
<Tonio_> Riddell: I'm standing ;)
<Riddell> hobbsee would be cool, although I think she might need some persuading
<Riddell> so I say I put out an announcement, and if we have too many candidates we can vote on it
<Lure> we need somebody who is actie on #kubuntu - this is why I think Hobbsee is good candidate
<freeflying> raphink: Tonio_  hobbsee
<Riddell> Lure: very true
<Riddell> and by next meeting we should have a kommittee
<raphink> hi
<Lure> we will need more irc help in future since Dapper will rock ;-)
<raphink> sorry for being late
<Riddell> hi raphink 
<Lure> raphink: we just elected you ;-)
<raphink> ah
* Lure is kidding
<raphink> for what?
<raphink> ;)
<Riddell> for the kubuntu council
<Tonio_> raphink: cellphones nice sometimes ;)
<Tonio_> +are
<raphink> Tonio_: indeed :)
<raphink> I was just fighting with Ooo
<raphink> anyway, offtopic ;)
<Riddell> raphink: any comments on the council or shall we move on?
<raphink> I'll read very fast
<Lure> I would also like maybe somebody in council that is strong background in KDE (besides Riddell)
<Tonio_> Lure: only 5 names have been proposed at the moment, aren't you interested to stand for that too ?
<Riddell> Lure: yes that would be nice, I did ask danimo but he's too busy
<Tonio_> Riddell: toma maybe ?
<Lure> allee?
<Lure> or toma?
<Lure> true
<Riddell> good names
<toma> ola
<toma> whats up?
<raphink> what exactly would be the role of the council?
<Riddell> toma: want to be our KDE representative on the council?
<toma> wow, you are surprising me here
<Riddell> raphink: approving membership, and making decisions on other stuff at meeting that are needed
<raphink> I'm fine for this
<raphink> I mean I'm ok to be part of it if I'm proposed ;)
<Riddell> allee would be good for his links to debian
<raphink> yes true
<Tonio_> Riddell: +
<Riddell> ok, lets move on, we can sort out the members before the next meeting
<Riddell> freeflying: your item :)
<Riddell> hmm, freeflying has fallen back asleep
<freeflying> I haven't commnets on flight7 at all :) 
<Lure> Riddell: will you invite formally the proposed people to confirm that they would accept the possition?
<toma> Riddell: what would that mean?
<Riddell> toma: being on the council?  just means you need to turn up to meeting to approve members and vote on things that come to a vote
<toma> Riddell: I think kubuntu will be very important for KDE, so I'm not sure I'm the most perfect person to have within KDE.
<Riddell> toma: nonsense, you'll be perfect
<Lure> toma: we just need an active KDE person that is also active/follows Kubuntu on regular basis
<Tonio_> toma: there aren't dozens of kde developpers activelly talking on kubuntu-devel ;)
<raphink> toma: you're a very good link with KDE for us
<Lure> Tonio_: +1
<raphink> very valuable
<toma> Riddell: I'm no eV member anymore, dont know if that matters
<freeflying> toma: +1
<Riddell> nah, nothing interesting happens on e.v. anyway
<Tonio_> toma: you where one of the firsts with danimo
<Riddell> except slagging off gnome of course
<kmon> this kubuntu council will be similar to ubuntu community council right?
<Riddell> kmon: yes
<toma> wow, and i feel guilty for not having done anything spectuclar yet for kubuntu.
<kmon> and what about the technical board? are you Riddell part of it?
<freeflying> toma: you will :)
<toma> haha
<raphink> toma: you have
<raphink> :)
<Lure> toma: rsibreak helps me... ;-)
<Riddell> kmon: I'm not on the ubuntu tech board.  the kubuntu council would take votes on tech decisions too if that was helpful
<raphink> kmon: the kubuntu TB will be decided in Paris if any
* Tonio_ reminds Riddell that his soup will be ready in 10 minutes
<kmon> ok, nice. Thanks raphink, Riddell
<raphink> if I understood what Mark said last time
<Riddell> Tonio_: thanks :)
<Tonio_> Riddell: ^_^
<Riddell> so, anyone tried flight 7
<Riddell> and has anyone tried ubiquity most importantly
<Tonio_> Riddell: I did, and there are not that much killer bugs actually
* raphink is up-to-date but doesn't try installing 
<kwwii> Riddell: I was impressed with Ubiquity
<Lure> Riddell: I did... ;-)
<kwwii> it worked great in German and looked pretty good, all things considered
<Riddell> kwwii: did you do an install with it?
<Riddell> Lure: did you install with it?
* kmon is up to date, but don't have a spare computer to try live installer
<raphink> ubiquity still misses the map for the time settings, doesn't it?
<kwwii> the partioner interface was not very nice though at first
<kwwii> Riddell: yes, 
<toma> you guys are great, I can try, but I prefer a first period of six months, so if I suck you can get rid of me and if i dont like it, I can leave... Is that something?
<Riddell> toma: sure, that's fine
<Lure> Riddell: yes, and with couple of dailys before and after Flight 7
<kwwii> raphink: it complains about the hardware time everytime it boots
<Riddell> excellent, that's the first successful reports I've heard from ubiquity :)
<Lure> Riddell: I think you have managed to nail all/most critical ones (crashes and stuff)
<raphink> :)
<Tonio_> Riddell: ubiquity worked for me, but I tested on a blank disk...
<raphink> kwwii: what complains?
<Riddell> I still need to fix some of the logic on the mountpoints page, and I'll try the map this weekend but it's not a priority
<kwwii> raphink: the installed system
<raphink> ah
<raphink> that's pretty bad
<kwwii> there are lots of endianess problems 
<kwwii> pretty much all screenshot functions and several apps are effected
<Riddell> flight 8 is next week so please everyone test ubiquity because if it's broken on the final CD that's a lot of useless shipit CDs we'll have
<Tonio_> Riddell: I will
<raphink> ok
<Riddell> oh and testers for flight 8 candidates very welcome too of course, around wednesday
* Lure is out next week :-(
<Riddell> toma: your item
<Riddell> or did we do this last meeting?
<toma> we did it last meeting, not sure why it ended up this meeting
<Riddell> nobody wiped the agenda is why
<toma> i dont think we need to repeat it
<toma> next item
<Riddell> I've still not had time to do the list of things for new developers but I'd still like to at some point soon
<Riddell> allee here?
<kmon> Riddell: soup
<raphink> lol
<Riddell> arg!  my soup!
<kwwii> Riddell: two more minutes!
<toma> Riddell: untill k3m, i dont have time anyways. allee has not responded to my calls.
<kwwii> you said half an hour
<Tonio_> kmon: 4 minutes left for the soup AFAIK ;)
<toma> move it to later on, he'll be back
<Riddell> allee seems to be suggesting renaming kubuntu, which is probably not a good idea
<Riddell> Lure: your item
<Lure> who will be in Paris and what is to be expected from this event in regards to Kubuntu?
<raphink> I will almost certainly be in Paris
<Tonio_> Lure: I will since I am :)
<raphink> and there are many things to be decided there
<Riddell> we need to plan for Edgy!
<raphink> :)
<Riddell> all ideas welcome, please put them on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuFutureIdeas
<raphink> keeping in mind that Edgy will be a 4 month release
<raphink> which means lots of work in a short time
<Lure> Mark mentioed KDE developers - is this already confirmed?
<raphink> yes it is Lure
<raphink> it has been talked about at LinuxTag
<Riddell> Lure: yes, we'll have a bunch of kde people there
<raphink> together with KDE people
<kmon> For paris summit I think you guys should propose which kde devs/people should be proposed to be invited by mark
<raphink> they have to appoint about 5 people to come there
<Riddell> kwwii, ervin, ellen, aseigo
<Lure> this sounds great\
<raphink> very nice
<kwwii> great, now I am on the kde list?
<Riddell> oh and sebas of course
<Riddell> kwwii: yes
<kwwii> hehe, ok...be prepared for oxygen :-)
<raphink> kwwii: :p
<raphink> yeah :)
<raphink> we need oxygen in Paris ;)
<raphink> esp. in the summer, with pollution peaks
<Riddell> I believe canonical will be willing to fund people working on shiny bling graphic things
<raphink> mhm
<DaSkreech2> What about SOC?
<Riddell> so if anyone hears of any projects like that let me know
<kwwii> raphink: oxygen will be releseased on week before paris
<Riddell> DaSkreech2: put it on the agenda
<raphink> kwwii: great
<Riddell> kwwii: oh?
<kwwii> s/on/one
<DaSkreech2> !agenda
<Riddell> now that's exciting
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<kwwii> Riddell: we are meeting in port. for a week to get things ready
<Riddell> portugal?
<kwwii> yepp, at nunos houes
<kwwii> house
<Riddell> wow, excellent
<raphink> :)
<Riddell> I wonder what colour the folders will be, that's the exciting bit
<kwwii> orange!
<kwwii> no, blue, as usual
<Tonio_> Riddell: I just hope less blue this time ;)
<raphink> hehe
<Tonio_> arghhhhhhhh
<Riddell> kmon: do you have suggestions of developers?
<Tonio_> kwwii: :'(
<kmon> Riddell: I think the one's you've mentioned are great
* Lure is already tired of blue and hates to have custom theme ;-(
<kmon> specially if people from different parts of KDE are involved (coding, marketing, etc)
<Tonio_> Lure: yes, I agree
<DaSkreech2> Oh
<Riddell> do we know who K2 is?
<raphink> I don't
<Tonio_> Riddell: nope
<DaSkreech2> Have the System settings usable with the keyboad
<raphink> and he's not here
<DaSkreech2> keyboard
<Riddell> whoever he is, he's put his item on the wrong meeting agenda, we don't really do linux module issues here
<raphink> DaSkreech2: that'd have to be for edgy
<DaSkreech2> ok
<raphink> so... newsletters?
<raphink> what do you mean by that Riddell?
<Riddell> so my item, matt suggested I make newsletters of the week's happenings in kubuntu and post them out
<raphink> emails? blog ? 
<Riddell> e-mail to the lists
<raphink> ok
<raphink> could be nice
<raphink> what would it feature?
<Riddell> nothing too long, just a quick summary of where we are and what's planned to work on
<Lure> I think blog would be better (more visibility)
<raphink> new features / bugs / new contributors / events in the community / events in the world
<Riddell> raphink: stuff we've all done, people who have done it, top bug fixer of the week, whatever
<raphink> ok
<Riddell> yes, you've got the idea :)
<raphink> I agree with lure though
<raphink> a blog would be more visible
<uniq> have to go, gnite.
<raphink> or using kubuntu.org with a news section
<Tonio_> uniq: nite
<raphink> and sending it to the ML in addition
<Riddell> ubuntu-devel-announce gets a lot of publicity
<DaSkreech2> Riddell: would that be for users or developers?
<raphink> night uniq
<Riddell> and if I link from kubuntu.org that brings in more
<Riddell> DaSkreech2: developers and interested users
<Lure> news is too official, and blog can be more free-writing
<DaSkreech2> True but there can be a chain :)
<freeflying> blog and ML
<DaSkreech2> One leads to the other
<Riddell> so I'll be poking people to remind me of what's happened in the last week
<DaSkreech2> People can stop at the level of involvement they want to get into
<kmon> Riddell: similar to debian weekly news?
<kmon> nice
<Riddell> kmon: probably not as long or formal, but along those lines yes
<kmon> th desktop team do something similar AFAIK, but gnome based
<Riddell> yes, launchpad does too
<Riddell> although I've never seen more than one
<Riddell> ok, agenda over
<raphink> I've got a point to add to the meeting although it's not on the agenda
<raphink> which is translations
<Riddell> DaSkreech2 was first
<Lure> Riddell: any bugs that we are concerned with?
<raphink> ok sure
<Lure> (must-fix and stuff)
<raphink> go on DaSkreech2
<DaSkreech2>  I am?
<Riddell> DaSkreech2: you were asking about summer of code?
<DaSkreech2> Right
<Tonio_> raphink: I pinged pitti yesterday, he will release new language packs this week
<Riddell> just asking the status in general?
<DaSkreech2> You were looking for developers for KDE4 stuff
<DaSkreech2>  You emntioned oxygen
<raphink> new language packs are out already Tonio_, and it doesn't fix the menus
<DaSkreech2> I was noticing on the SOC page there were quite a few KDE4 specific things under kubuntu
<DaSkreech2> mentioned
<Riddell> DaSkreech2: I wasn't looking for kde 4 developers, I was looking for shiny bling things we can do in edgy (4 months time, too soon for kde 4)
<Riddell> I never put half the kubuntu SoC ideas on the wiki page there
<Tonio_> raphink: do they ? I didn't update today
<DaSkreech2> Ah ok So things like the compiz/KDE (also SOC) ?
<Riddell> I don't know who did
<Riddell> DaSkreech2: yes
<Tonio_> Riddell: so yes, we have one killer bug to fix before release ;)
<DaSkreech2> Where dod we want the blingy things? In art or in the tech?
<Riddell> we've had a good number of SoC applications, I've no idea how many we'll get in the end
<DaSkreech2> do
<Riddell> DaSkreech2: both
<kmon> Riddell: I think good SOC proyects could be to develop apps missing in kubuntu from ubuntu (like a qt/kde frontend to gdebi)
<Tonio_> raphink: btw it works for some languages like german, the translation doesn't bug on that point
<Riddell> kmon: our top project so far is for an OEM installer
<Riddell> insanekane said he'd look at gdebi for qt
<kmon> nice
<Riddell> Tonio_: killer bug being translations?
<raphink> Tonio_: sorry, its language-support-* that were released today, not language-pack-*-data
<Tonio_> Version: 1:6.06+20060427
<Riddell> Tonio_: please check that the missing translations are indeed now in rosetta under kdelibs.po
<Tonio_> raphink: yes, new packs aren't still built
<raphink> right, let's wait then :)
<Riddell> raphink: is that your translation item dealt with?
<Tonio_> Riddell: rosetta is complete, and your have supposedly corrected the kdelibs bug
<Riddell> Tonio_: great
<raphink> taking about translations
<Tonio_> Riddell: we have to look carefully for updates and check if that will resolve the issue
<raphink> I was playing with zeroconf today
<freeflying> Riddell: there still many pos of kde stuff not on rosetta
<DaSkreech2> Riddell: Oh just to be clear this is a edgy type meeting or just a kubuntu future in general?
<raphink> and noticed that it uses kind of desktop files that have to be translated
<Riddell> DaSkreech2: the Paris summit is an edgy meeting
<Tonio_> the problem is it would be nice to have the response quickly, and not discovering 3 days before release that the bug is still there
<DaSkreech2> ok
<Riddell> DaSkreech2: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuDeveloperSummitParis
<Riddell> raphink: desktop files are a pain for translation
<raphink> yes I guess
<Tonio_> Riddell: definitly
* kmon hopes Riddell has turned off the boiling soup
<raphink> the best might be to have them translated upstream
<Riddell> raphink: in gnome, ubuntu now has a patch that allows desktop files to take translations from .po files
<Tonio_> Riddell: that could be an interesting launchpad addon -> desktop files online translation
<Riddell> raphink: I didn't have time to do that for kubuntu but I'd like to for edgy
<Tonio_> Riddell: don't you think ?
<raphink> ok
<Riddell> Tonio_: tell carlos :)
<Tonio_> Riddell: in paris, in paris ;)
<Riddell> Lure: you were talking about bugs?
<Tonio_> raphink: I will ping pitti once more for langpacks if there are no updates on sunday evening
<raphink> ok
<Tonio_> raphink: and concerning the livecd, french is supposed to come back according to what Riddell told me yesterday
<Lure> Riddell: yes - anyhting that needs to be fixed and we do not see it in pile of open bugs?
<raphink> Tonio_: I was talking about the files like _ssh._tcp . I don't know how they are to be translated in KDE
<Riddell> Tonio_: should be on now
<raphink> Tonio_: great
<Tonio_> Riddell: great
<DaSkreech2> Well I'm done with my part then
<DaSkreech2> The next section may have the floor
<Tonio_> raphink: yes, xml based and desktop files are a pain to translate...
<Riddell> Lure: I need to look at making sure chaning timezones works, I know it hasn't in the past and I don't think it's changed
<raphink> talking about bugs, I'm happy to say that Korganizer works again since last week
<DaSkreech2> Although I could raise my System settings irks :-)
<Tonio_> raphink: could be interesting to discuss that in paris
<Lure> Riddell: changing TZ where?
<Riddell> Lure: I've heard that KMail filters don't work, having someone to confirm that would be good
<Tonio_> and make zeroconf-scripts-* packages or something
<Riddell> Lure: right click on clock->configure clock
<Tonio_> raphink: don't you think ?
<Riddell> Lure: it used not to save the new value when you rebooted
<raphink> Tonio_: well we'd need more protocol files, translated in various languages, and avahi default config files
<raphink> but that's for dapper I guess
<raphink> s/dapper/edgy/
<Lure> Riddell: I can check KMail filters - is there a bug?
<Tonio_> raphink: yes I was talking about edgy btw
<raphink> ok
<Lure> but I am in only tommorow then back next Sat...
<Riddell> Lure: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/39944
<Tonio_> raphink: we will need to come to paris with plans and structure to propose for a correct zeroconf implementation
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39944 in kdepim "Set filters are ineffective" [Normal,Needs info]  
<Riddell> any other business?
<raphink> yes Tonio_
<Tonio_> raphink: nothing impossible as long as we "think" it correctly
<raphink> Tonio_: there should be a spec for it
<Tonio_> raphink: true
<raphink> Riddell: well I think that's it
<Tonio_> Riddell: ust a little question since you are close to kde
<Riddell> hmm?
<raphink> Tonio_: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/zeroconf
<Tonio_> Riddell: one of the priorities for edgy will be compiz integration within xgl or aiglx
<Riddell> Tonio_: that would be cool, although I don't know who could do it, I should talk to zrusin
<Tonio_> and AFAIK, there are very little chances that the kde-window-decorator will work
<allee> hi, uh, meeting not 22.00 UTC as in wiki :(  sorry
<kwwii> zack is working for trolltech 100a100gain
<Tonio_> Riddell: zack didn't touch the cvs for 2 month....
<Riddell> yes, kwin integration has been problematic I believe
<kwwii> funky, where did the 100's come from
<Lure> allee: :( - wiki was wrong....
<Tonio_> so if we can't implement it, that will make a hudge difference will ubuntu
<allee> SHIT
<kwwii> that's ok, we voted you out
<Riddell> hi allee, sorry the wiki wasn't updated properly
<Riddell> allee: fancy being on the kubuntu council?
<freeflying> Riddell: when will be the next meeting?
<Riddell> that's a good question
<freeflying> I'd update the meetingsagenda now
<Riddell> maybe week after release
<allee> fine with me.  But I'm not sure if I'm online enought to know and judge new peoples work.  You decide
<Riddell> 8th june?
<freeflying> Riddell: seems too long, how about one weeks after RC1
<Tonio_> Riddell: should we make a latest one just a week before release in case we miss something ?
<allee> Tonio_: makes sense
<Riddell> 1 week after RC is final release night :)
<Lure> Riddell: I think meeting every two weeks would be approprite
<Tonio_> Riddell: 1 day after rc1 release :)
<raphink> good for me
<Riddell> friday 26th?
<freeflying> Riddell: then May, 21
<Tonio_> Riddell: good for me
<Tonio_> although I may not be there...
<kwwii> the 26th is bad for me
<Lure> Firday is bad day for meetings
<kwwii> flying to port
<toma> vote allee++
<Riddell> monday 29th?
<kmon> Tonio_: suse 10.1 has just been released and they claim xgl support, maybe someone should take a look at how they do it for kde
<Riddell> freeflying: 21st is a weekend
<Tonio_> kmon: they do use gnome-window-decorator :)
<Riddell> kmon: I've a feeling they just use gnome window manager
<Tonio_> kmon: I asked during linuxtag
<kmon> Tonio_: :(
<allee> Riddell: too late I'm in holidays starting 26 ;)
<raphink> kmon: xgl won't be in dapper
<raphink> by default that is
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> and it's good this way
<raphink> :)
<freeflying> Riddell: then 22 st, then we have more then one week before release
<kmon> raphink: I think ubuntu devs don't want to go with xgl
<Tonio_> kmon: aiglx is more probable, since it is much easier to integrate
<allee> freeflying: ++
<Riddell> we could have it on 25th and just hope the RC is done by that time
<Riddell> freeflying: seems quite soon
<kmon> yesterdar mathew garret said that on irc
<raphink> kmon: so far at least. Dapper is to be supported for 3 years on the desktop, and we can't do that with xgl
<Riddell> although if we have a council by then we can do membership and stuff
<toma> 25 is start k3m, i wont be there then.
<Riddell> what's k3m?
<toma> kde multi media meeting
<kmon> raphink: I think they'll have a look at fedoras solution
<Riddell> oh, cool
<raphink> seems nice
<raphink> I can't promise to be there at next meeting
<Riddell> how's the 22nd?
<Tonio_> kmon: which is aiglx :)
<kmon> raphink: at least that's what I read the other day on IRC
<raphink> as I'm given a job and am not sure I'll have a connexion at the time
<raphink> but I'll do my best
<raphink> :)
<kmon> raphink: yes
<Tonio_> kmon: compiz is already compatible with aiglx, I tested and that's exactly like with xgl, except it is just a little xorg addon
<Tonio_> Riddell: 22nd or 23rd are fine with me
<Riddell> freeflying: put down the 22nd at 21:00UTC and see who complains
<kmon> raphink: OT: Did you include your linuxtag talk on the wiki? :)
* toma too
<freeflying> Riddell: ok
<raphink> kmon: what do you mean?
<Riddell> meeting over, thanks all, remember to test ubiquity
<kmon> raphink: your slides
<Tonio_> Riddell: will do
<raphink> kmon:  my slides are on my website
<kmon> raphink: on the wiki page about ubuntu presentations
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-17
<raphink> http://www.raphink.info/talks
<raphink> ah ok
<raphink> kmon: where is the page?
<kmon> let me find it
<kwwii> be sure to use the new presentation layout though :-9
<raphink> kwwii: hehe
<kmon> raphink: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations
<freeflying> how about allee 's  on agenda?
<toma> what is the procedure regaring the councel from now on?
<raphink> go to Paris
<toma> (i'm sorry if i missed that part)
<Tonio_> freeflying: that's what we both discussed during the linuxtag
<raphink> kmon: added
<kmon> raphink: nice :)
<allee> freeflying: are all still here?  Today I just wanted to have a first discussion. Then let people thing about it.  And maybe then discuss again ;)
<allee> s/thing/think
<Tonio_> freeflying: we think it would be logic, if kubuntu has to be considered the same level than ubuntu, to rename (far future) the distros
<Riddell> allee: you want to rename kubuntu?
<Tonio_> freeflying: ubuntu could be the base (server part), ubuntu-gnome the gnome version, ubuntu-kde for kde, ubuntu-xfce etc.....
<Tonio_> that would make the name very logic, and no difference between the desktops
<freeflying> okey. then I figure it out of agenda
* Riddell think
<allee> Riddell: definitely not now.  maybe later is gnomies decide that they can life with ubuntu-gnome
* Riddell thinks ubuntu should be gubuntu
<raphink> kwwii: add your template to the page btw
<raphink> kwwii: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations#head-57945bcf835b5ff26cf7ef0888fc1bab3e0e0556
<Tonio_> the only thing is that it would only make sense if the naming is the same for all ubuntu versions
<allee> Riddell: that's also an possibilty.  but e.g. ubuntu-server does already not fit the (X)ubuntu scheme
<kmon> I don't know if gnome people would like to rename the distro....
<kwwii> raphink: the thing is, this is not a real presentation
<raphink> ah
<Riddell> allee: that was originally going to be called 1ubuntu (you have to think about it)
<Tonio_> but as long as we have ubuntu and *ubuntu, in the spirit of people, all other versions like kubuntu will be considered as "derivative" from the "original" gnome version
<kwwii> raphink: it is simply the gnome example content stuff, made K like
<raphink> ok
<allee> Riddell: and with ubuntu-<whatever> we all have to change a bit. kde  and gnome
<Tonio_> allee: yup
<mindspin> sounds reasonable
<Riddell> allee: your proposal is unlikely to be workable, firstly because people like the current names and secondly because kde and gnome are trademarks and we can't use those namse
<allee> My wish is just think about about it.  Only strong wish I have is that we find a common name for all ubuntu flavors
<allee> so we pronouce our common ground
<kwwii> one name= one project, two names=two projects...it is that simple
<Riddell> the different between ubuntu the whole project and ubuntu one of the distros it makes is of course a confusing one
<kwwii> rather two names that are alike=two projects
<allee> if we go with >x>ubuntu or ubuntu-<x> is not that important.  But I would like to emphasis common ground instead of difference
<kwwii> shoulda named kubuntu heidi, then it could be the ubuntu heidi project
<kwwii> but in a way, the strength of kubuntu is shown...people see it as a singular thing without any effort
<Tonio_> Riddell: that's exactly my feeling, depends on what means "ubuntu"
<allee> kwwii: and the logo will be a drake be dressed like heide  (in the back Mark as grand-pa ;)
<kwwii> the braids are important ;-)
<Tonio_> Riddell: on the web, most people are still refering to kubuntu as a "fork" or "adapted" version of ubuntu
<Tonio_> Riddell: and that's is, I think, do to the naming
<Tonio_> s/do/due
<Riddell> sure, I agree it confuses people. I didn't pick the name but I do think anything else I've seen is worse
<allee> Tonio_: yeah, this was my impression to at LinuxTag.  I hardly remember anyone not asking what's kubuntu is compared ot gnome (and most did already know that gnome versus kde thing(
<toma> Tonio_: and where on the kubuntu site can people read how it is made exactly?
<mindspin> ubuntu(G) ubuntu(K) ubuntu(X)
<kmon> maybe it should be "the ubuntu proyect" and then name differently the distros.
<kwwii> it is too late to change the name I think
<kmon> but I don't think mark & other will agree on this
<kwwii> without a big effort on everyones part (canonical, ubuntu, etc.)
<Tonio_> kmon: hehe, true ;)
<Riddell> toma: if you have better text to put on the site that's very welcome :)
<allee> I think about kubuntu as code or nickname for the distro flavour
<Tonio_> toma: good point
<toma> Riddell: yes, well having a seperate kubuntu blog would help awareness
<Tonio_> toma: I think the kubuntu website has to be improved, but we need a webmaster for this ;)
<mindspin> I'm used to write (k)ubuntu, but what about xfe ?
<toma> webmasters are impossible to fin nowadays
<toma> find
<Tonio_> Riddell: could that be a subject for the next meeting ? improvements for the kubuntu website ?
<Tonio_> toma: could be, I think
<allee> as long as gnome, kde, server ... scheme don't match there will always be the impression of something like forks (IMHO only of course)
<toma> if we have a weekly newsletter and a planet, the site can be filled pretty quickly 
<kmon> this should be discussed with the ubuntu council
<toma> (weekly newsletter is hard to keep up btw)
<Riddell> Tonio_: sure
<kmon> toma: maybe a 2 weeks newsletter
<kmon> on a monthly one
<kmon> s/on/or
<toma> i think thats more reasonable for the long run
<kmon> a nice name could be, of course, kubuntu traffic ;)
<toma> you can easily increase the volumes, but it is rather annoying (or shamefull) to decrease the amount later on.
<Tonio_> kmon: good name would be to rename kubuntu to ubuntu and ubuntu to gubuntu :)
<Tonio_> hehe
<kmon> Tonio_: kubuntu's not ubuntu!
<kmon> hehe
<allee> Tonio_ would be fine too ( e.g. annoyed to write kubuntu when stuff is about server.  But as it is ubuntu implies gnome.  So I use kubuntu.  but it feels like nonsense)
<Tonio_> kmon: shoud be ^^
<kmon> as in gnu
<Riddell> toma: my usual way is just not to promise any frequency and see how I manage
* kmon leaves
<kmon> good night everyone
<toma> night!
<Riddell> freeflying: can you e-amil fridge-devel with the new meeting's date too
<Tonio_> Riddell: another point would be the forums for example
<allee> kmon: bye
<freeflying> Riddell: okey
<Tonio_> kde and gnome are the same level on ubuntu's forums
<Tonio_> Riddell: so what is the reason we have another one kubuntu's website ?
<Tonio_> there are lots of thinfs like that that should be discussed concerning the website :)
<Tonio_> s/thinfs/things
<kwwii> night
<kwwii> erm, wrong channel
<toma> night anyway ;-)
<Tonio_> toma: nite
<kwwii> enough for me
<kwwii> bye
<allee> bye
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<sko6er> komo hay ke hacer para ir a la debconf
<sko6er> ?
<crazy_penguin> Ridell: are you here?
<sladen> crazy_penguin: Riddell has two 'd's
<crazy_penguin> ok
<crazy_penguin> were can i make suggestions about ubuntu/kubuntu (concerning the rename of them in the far future)?
<simira> crazy_penguin: about changing the name of ubuntu?
<crazy_penguin> yes
<crazy_penguin> they discussed it last night at the meeting
<crazy_penguin> and i want to, of course if i may, make suggestion
<simira> uh... what? What team? What logs...
<crazy_penguin> the kubuntu team i guess
<simira> ok, rename of kubuntu, not ubuntu itself? I definitely lost something here...
<crazy_penguin> not neccesarily
<crazy_penguin> but some of them made some suggestion on that
<crazy_penguin> on renaming ubuntu gubuntu and so on
<crazy_penguin> nothing that is important is only a far facthed plan i think
<simira> ok... this is weird. Is it any documentation or discussion on this on the wiki or any lists? I haven't seen anything (haven't looked for it either...)
<crazy_penguin> i don't know
<crazy_penguin> i'm new to ubuntu
<crazy_penguin> i only attended that meeting because i was curios
<crazy_penguin> so ask more onlder users:)
<crazy_penguin> onlder=older
<sladen> crazy_penguin: which meeting, do you remember the title of the meeting.  was it IRC-based, on in person?
<crazy_penguin> irc-based
<crazy_penguin> last night on this channel
<simira> sladen: last night's kubuntu meeting. Seems like the name-change is just a suggestion from a random (not known to me) person, really
<simira> crazy_penguin: imo, it's not going to happen, not this decade anyway.
<crazy_penguin> ok
<crazy_penguin> i only wished to make a suggestion, beacuse i saw that they discussed it. ok then. thx for the information simira.:)
<simira> crazy_penguin: see wiki.kubuntu.org/
<crazy_penguin> ok simira. thx
<simira> np
<jjesse> @schedule
<Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
<jjesse> @schedule Detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 16 May 08:00: Community Council | 17 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 16:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 08:00: Edubuntu
<DaSkreech2> simira: Is there a log of the Kubuntu meeting?
<Toadstool> DaSkreech2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Kubuntu_2006_5_11
<DaSkreech2> Toadstool: Thanks
* DaSkreech2 laughs as his name becomes Wikiized
<crazy_penguin> hi all
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-18
<lucasvo> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 16 May 14:00: Community Council | 17 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 14:00: Edubuntu
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 16 May 15:00: Community Council | 17 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 23:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 15:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-19
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 16 May 15:00: Community Council | 17 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 23:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 15:00: Edubuntu
<kbrooks> @schedule EDT
<kbrooks> @schedule EST
<Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 16 May 07:00: Community Council | 17 May 07:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 07:00: Edubuntu
<kbrooks> Seven o' clock...
<kbrooks> !member
<kbrooks> !becomingamember
<kbrooks> ...
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-20
<kbrooks> OUT AND ABOUT
<[BlueT_at_Mars] > @schedule
<Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
<[BlueT_at_Mars] > @schedule taipei
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Taipei: 16 May 20:00: Community Council | 17 May 20:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 04:00: Edubuntu | 26 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 20:00: Edubuntu
<simira> @Schedule Oslo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 16 May 14:00: Community Council | 17 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 14:00: Edubuntu
<bluefoxicy> fuck I'm in class during the next community council meeting.
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-21
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 16 May 14:00: Community Council | 17 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 14:00: Edubuntu
<bimberi> @shedule canberra
<ajmitch> almost :)
<bimberi> oops :P
<bimberi> @schedule canberra
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Canberra: 16 May 22:00: Community Council | 17 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 19 May 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 06:00: Edubuntu | 26 May 06:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 22:00: Edubuntu
<bimberi> thanks ajmitch - i just thought it was being unresponsive :)
<ajmitch> so the CC meeting is in 80 minutes - australian team going for recognition?
* ajmitch has been lurking in your meeting :)
<bimberi> not that i'm aware of
<ajmitch> ok
<bimberi> *checks*
<bimberi> ajmitch: yes, you were pinged at the start :)
<ajmitch> hardly necessary
<raphink> @schedule paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 16 May 14:00: Community Council | 17 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 14:00: Edubuntu
<[BlueT_at_Mars] > @schedule taipei
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Taipei: 16 May 20:00: Community Council | 17 May 20:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 04:00: Edubuntu | 26 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 20:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<juliux> hi glatzor1 
<glatzor1> hi juliux
<glatzor1> nice to see you here
<glatzor1> you enjoyed the last evening?
<juliux> glatzor1, yes
<juliux> glatzor1, great steaks and beer
<sivang> yo glatzor1 
<juliux> isnt the meeting now?
<Kamion> huh, I guess the CC meeting is meant to be now
<[BlueT_at_Mars] > hello guys :)
<Kamion> sabdfl will be at debconf; I'll SMS him on the off-chance but he may not be awake
<Kamion> I've SMSed everyone; not a lot I can do now except wait and hope
<Kamion> fortunately there does not appear to be a lot of business, just glatzor
<jsgotangco> :)
<glatzor1> hi jsgotangco
<mako> hey
<mako> i'm here
<[BlueT_at_Mars] > hello mako 
<Kamion> mvo: how's glatzor been to work with?
<Kamion> hi mako
<[BlueT_at_Mars] > BlueT_: yo
<jsgotangco> hi mako
* jsgotangco can vouch for glatzor1's work on  g-a-i and u-m
<soonindallas> hi all.  I have a question for whenever it's appropriate
<Kamion> soonindallas: go ahead, this is sort of a quiet time
<mako> right
<soonindallas> ok thanks.  it's been a while since i've seen any logs for dapper developer meetings.
<soonindallas> are there still meetings, are the logs being made available ?
<Kamion> soonindallas: Jane Weideman posts summaries to ubuntu-devel-announce@ every week
<Kamion> if you want the full logs, they're available with the logs of this channel at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<mvo> Kamion: I only say the best about glatzor
<dholbach> glatzor stepped up in a lot of places in the DesktopTeam, he was helpful and committed a million of changes to gnome-app-install, update-{manager,notifier}, synaptic, etc :-)
<mvo> Kamion: he is full of energy and good ideas 
<soonindallas> Kamion: ok.  logs on the wiki pages stopped sometime in march
<sivang> he is also already helping me with hubackup, and already designed a much better UI design that my origianl.
<sivang> (mostly helping on the UI front and taking interest, which is blessed by me as I require the design help)
<glatzor1> Kamion: I also created a wiki page about my previous commitements. If I may point you to this:
<glatzor1> Kamoin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SebastianHeinlein
<Kamion> I've just been reading it and following all the links
<Kamion> well, nearly all :-)
<Kamion> looks like a fantastic pile of UI work; I have absolutely no problem with glatzor for membership
<Kamion> very impressive
<mvo> I can't agree more :)
<Kamion> I hadn't realised all those changes were down to you ..
<Kamion> mako?
<Kamion> we have no elmo or sabdfl apparently
<mako> right
<mako> Kamion: do you know where elmo is?
<Kamion> also at debconf I think
<Kamion> I've SMSed both of them but it's pretty early in .mx
<Kamion> (didn't we discuss this last time round?)
<mako> i don't think so
<mako> i knew mark was there
<ogra> sabdfl mentioned it
<mako> didn't know elmo was
* Kamion pokes through logs
<ogra> but i think elmo talked about it in -devel
<Kamion> Kamion: in some ways 12UTC might work better - there's more chance of me attending, if not mark.  20UTC would put us middle of day, fighting with talks (or the water park)
<Kamion> er, quoting elmo there
<Kamion> <elmo> kamion/mako: ok, let's do 12UTC.  I can have fun trolling mark, telling him he has to attend to make up for missing so many
<ogra> heh, he apprently didnt :)
<ogra> *apparently
<Kamion> I think I'll troll both of them when they wake up from their beauty sleep
<ogra> hehe
* mako nods
<Kamion> glatzor1: ok, I don't see that there's going to be any problem with your application; for form's sake I'll make sure to get an ack from either elmo or sabdfl later on
<Kamion> thanks for showing up, you did better than half the CC ;-)
<mako> well, i'll go into the lab at some point which will put me offline at half an hour but will be around for the rest of the day
<Kamion> Any other business?
<Kamion> soonindallas: which wiki pages?
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs ?
<soonindallas> Kamion: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=meeting+logs&titlesearch=Titles for ex
<elmo> sorry, I'm here now
<elmo> (and for the record, 4 hours can't be considered beautiful in anyway)
<jsgotangco> i think that's robitaille's wiki page to make a clean "log" page
<mako> heh
<ogra> elmo, 4h can make you looking pretty ugly in fact :)
<Kamion> soonindallas: the logs on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs go up to 2006-05-11, which looks pretty current to me
<glatzor1> Kamion: I prepared some sentences, should I paste them here for formal reasons?
<Kamion> elmo: we just have one candidate, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SebastianHeinlein
<Kamion> glatzor1: go ahead
<glatzor1> Kamion: sorry. but I am not at home and my irc client here doesn't have got a nickname notfication
<Kamion> soonindallas: I don't know what's wrong with the search, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs appears current
<soonindallas> Kamion: I don't know what's wrong either, but when I search for "meeting logs", the page that's returned is incomplete.  I'll look at the page you suggest
<elmo> ack for glatzor1
<Kamion> excellent
<Kamion> right, last call for any other business?
<Kamion> (glatzor1 approved in LP too)
<glatzor1> thanks a lot elmo and Kamion
<jsgotangco> \o/ glatzor1 \o/
<dholbach> confgratulations glatzor1
<juliux> welcome glatzor1 
<mvo> congrats glatzor1
<glatzor1> I want to use this opportunity to thank Michael Vogt for having an open ear for my suggestions, sponsoring and pushing me.
* mvo blushes
* dholbach hugs glatzor1
* dholbach hugs mvo
* glatzor1 hugs all
<Kamion> ok, adjourned, thanks all
<Kamion> RECORD TIME
<jsgotangco> yay
<glatzor1> mvo: I really enjoyed the last 3 and a half years that we have worked together
<zul> thats it?
* Hobbsee jumps
<Hobbsee> the meeting over *already*?
<jsgotangco> heh
<juliux> Hobbsee, yes
<jsgotangco> there wasnt that much in the agenda
<Hobbsee> oh, fair enough
<glatzor1> thanks a lot to all supporters of mine.
<glatzor1> i have to leave for class - it is time for neurology :)
* Hobbsee has to actually *do* the maths assignment she was happily procrastinating over :P
<glatzor1> bye juliux, jsgotangco, mvo and dholbach
<juliux> glatzor1, have fun in school
<Kamion> oh, we forgot to schedule the next meeting
<[BlueT_at_Mars] > this meeting's short :)
<Hobbsee> Kamion: heh, seems a bit late now :P
<Kamion> any objections to 30 April at 16:00? I'm going to be down in the London office for the Dapper release push, so mid-afternoon's OK but late evening might not work so well
<Hobbsee> Kamion: any aussies, or anyone in those sort of timezones will want to shoot you, but i wouldnt think there's a problem except for them :P
<Kamion> can't win 'em all
<Hobbsee> hehe
<bimberi> April?
<neuralis> Kamion: will you provide the time machine? ;)
<Kamion> er, 30 May, right
<Kamion> I've provisionally scheduled it on the wiki
* bimberi thinks neuralis was much more subtle ;)
<mako> tentatively, that sounds good to me
<mako> may that is
<elmo> sounds ok to me too
<Schoolinux> Hi all
<Kamion> good good
<Kamion> I'll mail c-c@ with the time
* Hobbsee thinks a 3am or so meeting wouldnt be pleasant :P
<Kamion> can't win 'em all, like I say
<Hobbsee> true
<Kamion> no time works for everyone, that's why we rotate
<Hobbsee> hehe - i think this was the first CC meeting that i actually had a hope of attending at a sane time...
<Kamion> well, we do also have to make sure that the CC can attend. We tried it at 0400 UTC or something once before and none of the CC actually woke up ...
<Kamion> oh, no, that's not quite true, mako was there on his own
<jsgotangco> lol
<Kamion> but there are three of us in the UK
<jsgotangco> are there plans in the immediate future to have someone from a different timezone join the council?
<Kamion> not in the immediate future, but it would be nice
<Hobbsee> haha - that's why we're going to have to change the kubuntu CC times - if they want me there and coherant, they cant have 7am meetings!
* Hobbsee doesnt do mornings!
<mako> i wasn't thrilled to have a meeting at 8am today
<mako> which might as well be 4AM for me :)
<mako> 4am would be better.. i'm more likely to be
<mako> up
<jsgotangco> mako: congratulations btw
<bimberi> Hobbsee: the CC meeting on 3/4/06 was at a good time for .au (11:00UTC)
<mako> jsgotangco: thanks :)
<Hobbsee> true, today's is, too.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> mako: you didnt want to do an all-nighter?  strange.
<freeflying> Hobbsee:  today's is qute well for Asian's  :)
<Hobbsee> just think of all the bugs that could be fixed due to staying up all night :P
<[BlueT_at_Mars] > freeflying: totally agree with you :)   # Asian too
<bimberi> Hobbsee: have many kubuntu members been approved yet?
* jsgotangco too :)
<Hobbsee> bimberi: we havent had a meeting yet, it's still all being organised, i think
<sabdfl> hello all
<Hobbsee> hi sabdfl 
<sabdfl> did i miss it?
<sabdfl> i'm in san fran and have no idea what time it is
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: the meeting?  yep, by approx 2 hours...
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: midnight here in australia, 2pm UTC
<jsgotangco> eh
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> 2 hours ago
<jsgotangco> we thought you are in debconf?
<raphink> seems that was a fast meeting
<Kamion> sabdfl: hi, yeah, only one candidate so it took half an hour even counting scrounging around for quorum
<Hobbsee> poor candidate, that would have meant way more grilling than usual...
<ogra> jsgotangco, he is, he's just sitting far away from the teble ;)
<Kamion> Hobbsee: no, hardly any, because he was manifestly goo
<Kamion> d
<Hobbsee> ah, i see :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<ubuntu_lt> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 17 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 May 23:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 15:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-14
<AndrewB> !schedule
<ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<AndrewB> hmm
<Mithrandir> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 15 May 13:00: Community Council | 15 May 15:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 12:00: Edubuntu | 17 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 20:00: Forum Council | 20 May 17:00: Xubuntu Developers
<Mithrandir> is what you want
<AndrewB> ahh
<highvoltage> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 15 May 13:00: Community Council | 15 May 15:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 12:00: Edubuntu | 17 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 20:00: Forum Council | 20 May 17:00: Xubuntu Developers
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-15
<Daviey> !schedule london
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about schedule london - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<popey> @schedule london
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 15 May 14:00: Community Council | 15 May 16:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 13:00: Edubuntu | 17 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 21:00: Forum Council | 20 May 18:00: Xubuntu Developers
<boredandblogging> @schedule atlanta
<Treenaks> boredandblogging: try a larget city :)
<Treenaks> larger
<boredandblogging> @schedule eastern
<ubotu> Schedule for Canada/Eastern: 15 May 09:00: Community Council | 15 May 11:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 17 May 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 16:00: Forum Council | 20 May 13:00: Xubuntu Developers
<boredandblogging> there we go
<Treenaks> @schedule Amsterdam
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 15 May 15:00: Community Council | 15 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 17 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 22:00: Forum Council | 20 May 19:00: Xubuntu Developers
<`23meg> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 15 2007, 10:53:41 - Next meeting: Community Council in 2 hours 6 minutes
<bimberi> @schedule canberra
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Canberra: 15 May 23:00: Community Council | 16 May 01:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 May 06:00: Forum Council | 21 May 03:00: Xubuntu Developers
<florencia_> @schedule argentina
<Hobbsee> hiya bimberi
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 15 May 23:00: Community Council | 16 May 01:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 18 May 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 May 06:00: Forum Council | 21 May 03:00: Xubuntu Developers
<Hobbsee> oh, it is the same
<bimberi> hi Hobbsee
<bimberi> yes, Canberra is in the same timezone
<bimberi> Hobbsee: welcome home btw :)
<Hobbsee> bimberi: thanks :)
<bimberi> @schedule Buenos_Aires
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires: 15 May 10:00: Community Council | 15 May 12:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 09:00: Edubuntu | 17 May 13:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 17:00: Forum Council | 20 May 14:00: Xubuntu Developers
<bimberi> florencia: ^^^^
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: sorry to hear about all the transportation you had to use and the time it took :(
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: yeah :P
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: was a bit nasty
<gnomefreak> it sounds it
<florencia> Hello bimberry
<bimberi> hi florencia
<nifan> b'dia
<Seeker`> @schedule London
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 15 May 14:00: Community Council | 15 May 16:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 13:00: Edubuntu | 17 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 21:00: Forum Council | 20 May 18:00: Xubuntu Developers
<flint> hey kevin!
<dholbach> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 15 May 15:00: Community Council | 15 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 16 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 17 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 22:00: Forum Council | 20 May 19:00: Xubuntu Developers
<mako> i need go to my lab now and will be probably 5-10 minutes to the meeting
<mako> apologies to everyone, see you soon
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 17 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 20 May 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<Uzuul> Hi there. I'm Arnaud Quette, from the UMC team (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMediaCenterTeam)
<MikeB-> morning all
<jsgotangco> morning
<jsgotangco> (evening here rather)
<Hobbsee> hi MikeB-
<Seeker`> afternoon
<Hobbsee> hi spam
<Hobbsee> hi Seeker`
<jsgotangco> hey Hobbsee how's the jetlag monster
<marianom> jmorelli: how are you? nice to see you 'round
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: i went to sleep at 6am today, and woke up at 6pm.  it's sucking.
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: just keep pushing it forward so you'll go to sleep at noon tomorrow. and then you'll almost be adjusted.
<Florencia> hello everyone
<jsgotangco> yeah it sucks that the world is round
<MikeB-> Hobbsee: ouch, the lag wasn't bad for me, but the airline lost my luggage for two days
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: heh
<Hobbsee> MikeB-: fun.
<bimberi> Hobbsee: they're elkbuntu's hours methinks :)
<Hobbsee> bimberi: heh.  true.  but she doesnt have uni
<highvoltage> hey ubunteros
<jmorelli> marianom, hi ! I can't miss this chat
<dholbach> hello
<flint> Greetings from Vermont, the Frozen North of the US near the Canadian line!
<Hobbsee> greetings from Antarctica.
<jmorelli> uouuu Antarctica !
<flint> Hobbsee, Antarctica, cool!
<slackwarelife> hello
<jsgotangco> Camp McMurdo?
<Hobbsee> feels like i'm in antarctica, anyway
<flint> highvoltage, Jonathan good to hear from you!
<highvoltage> hey flint, long time no see :)
<kjcole> Hail and well met good fellows
<jmorelli> spg76, good to see you here !!
<marianom> spg76: morning
<dholbach> mako said he'd late a few minutes
<sabdfl> hi all
<jsgotangco> hello
<Seeker`> lo sabdfl
<dudanogueira> hi all
<spg76> good morning
<kjcole> Good morning, or whatever part of the day it is for y'all.
<dholbach> ok, let's get started: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda is our agenda for today
<MikeB-> morning sabdfl
<dholbach> is srimadas here?
<lipe_> good morninf everyone
<dholbach> amachu seems to be his nick on freenode
<jmorelli> beuno, hi hero !!!
<jsgotangco> yes that's amachu
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: bless you
<dholbach> ok, amachu seems to not be around... he asked for a clarification on "Ubuntu Derivative - reg. Recently we had the formation of Ubuntu Derivative Team. It appears that some gap has been formed in between [https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2007-April/001280.html]  following this mail and its replies. Would like to get clarified on such issues."
<dholbach> I can just add a few points to that:
<dholbach> I'm in touch with David Farning at the moment, but until now the issues he talked about are rather nebulous to me - I don't exactly know what problem there was with Canonical
<dholbach> we should invite amachu and dfarning to one of the next meetings and talk about this again
<juliux> hi all
<jsgotangco> my take on this one is that it falls pretty much under the trademark policy under derived works just like how other derivatives fall under
<sabdfl> I've not heard anything from dfarning on the subject
<dholbach> also, I asked the sysadmins to create a ubuntu-derivative mailing list - I will announce it and I hope that will make us work closer together with the derivatives
<dholbach> we had some very good sessions with the guys from Guadalinex at UDS, so I'm very confident this will help improve things
<sabdfl> ok. we have a very strong pro-derivative policy in general, and want them to feel welcome to use ubuntu as it suits them
<sabdfl> next?
<dholbach> juliux proposed "CCAgenda freeze - The wikipage for the CommunityCouncilAgenda, should be frozen a few days befor the CC Meeting so everybody can check if the items are interesting to him or not."
<sabdfl> i'd rather not, as it would introduce greater delays i think
<jsgotangco> was the wiki page frozen at all? I noticed changes until this morning...but then it only took me an hour to read everything
<sabdfl> that said, we don't want people adding items during the meeting, either :-)
<dholbach> hehe
<MikeB-> :)
<juliux> i put that up because there were some people adding himself for membership just a few minutes bevor the meeting
<gnomefreak> freezing it would help keep meetings shorter
<kjcole> Seems wise, considering the CC meets fairly regularly.  On the other hand one can always freeze it an hour before rather than days.
<jsgotangco> i believe a placeholder notice would do for now
<kjcole> (Perhaps "hours" rather than an hour or days.)
<juliux> i think the general agenda items should be froozen, so everybody knows about the itmes for the next meeting
<juliux> kjcole, did you check the agenda every hour?
<sabdfl> what about taking a different approach to discussion items vs memberships/loco's
<sabdfl> i see no problem with someone adding themselves for membership just before hand, as long as they have folks there who will speak for them to backup their wiki pages and lp track record
<juliux> sabdfl, i am happy if the gernal items are frozen a few days bevor the meeting
<Seveas> sorry for being late, network problems
<juliux> hi Seveas
<sabdfl> for discussion items, it makes sense to freeze a little earlier (though i don't think more than 24 hours is needed)
<kjcole> juliux, no but it seemed like a compromise between not freezing, and freezing days ahead.  And I would check a few hours ahead if that were the established policy.  (Or live with the uncertainty.)
<sabdfl> also, it should be good practice to notify anyone concerned that an item was added
<sabdfl> especially in the case of a dispute
<sabdfl> so we get the chance to hear from all sides
<jsgotangco> that's ideal
<Seveas> sabdfl, good idea
<Seveas> (was the first item on the agenda skipped?)
<dholbach> Seveas: amachu was not here
<sabdfl> no, just rapidly dispensed with
<Seveas> ok
<kjcole> Encourage people who add agenda items to subscribe?  (I get automatic notices when the CC agenda page changes...)
<sabdfl> so, can we agree on 24 hours for discussion items, and just before for memberships/locos?
<dholbach> I'm happy with that
<kjcole> Maybe a note on the agenda page suggesting subscription?
<Seveas> likewise
<MikeB-> sabdfl: sounds good
<jsgotangco> yes
<juliux> sabdfl, sounds good
<dennda> nice idea
<VooDoo> afternoon
<sabdfl> ok, i think that's sufficient consensus, seveas could you update the page accordingly?
<Seveas> will do
<dholbach> next item: Uzuul wants blessing for the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMediaCenterTeam
<Uzuul> I've put the latest status & roadmap here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMediaCenterTeam/Status20070514
<Uzuul> we're on the road to success, federating *all* the players in the field (Debian, Ubuntu, Elisa, LIRC, ...) to work together...
<alins> Good norning
<jsgotangco> that's a healthy spread of team members
<mako> greetings everyone
<Seveas> greetings mako
<Uzuul> jsgot: yeah ;-)
<mako> i hope you got my message 15 minutes before saying i'd be miss the beginning of hte meeting
<MikeB-> morning mako
<dennda> hi
<jsgotangco> how do you forsee this project going during gutsy development?
<juliux> hi mako
<mako> apologies for the disruption, i'm reading scrollback
<Uzuul> jsgotangco: well, we will have releasable things. Elisa 0.2 will be out for the Guadec, packages are underway...
<elmo> sorry, but what does federating mean in this context?
<Uzuul> the only point is about the artwork (missing gfx designers) and the achievement of our UI goals. I've no exact idea yet!
<dholbach> looks like you have lots of ideas and a lot of people in the team
<dholbach> how many people are working on getting the changes you propose into Ubuntu?
<Uzuul> elmo: team members, working together on the same aims...
<Uzuul> dholbach: some 10 peoples really active. but we are quickly growing...
<dudanogueira> Uzuul, i know a very good gfx designer. vdepizzol. he probably will be very interested in design it.
<dholbach> I'm asking because the goals you propose in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MediaCenter/SoftwareSpecs look quite some work
<Uzuul> dholbach: we work a lot upstream, so hiting ubuntu by side effect...
<Uzuul> dholbach: Elisa team already address a lot ;-) Isn't it Kaleo
<Kaleo> About the artwork, we have a graphist in the Elisa team
<Uzuul> dudanogueira: thanks for this. I'll contact him...
<Kaleo> Feature-wise, Elisa is meant to achieve many of the points listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MediaCenter/SoftwareSpecs soon
<sabdfl> as i understand it, the initial step is just packaging Elisa, right?
<sabdfl> that in itself would be a very good start
<dudanogueira> Uzuul, he is wright here: http://vdepizzol.wordpress.com/
<jsgotangco> that's how i got it as well
<jsgotangco> package Elisa, and have it on Ubuntu as a good platform
<sabdfl> that's fine by me!
<Uzuul> sabdfl: right ! I'm working, as a DD, with Loic Minier, on this point.
<sabdfl> super
<sabdfl> once you have a core piece of software like that in place, you can build a custom derivative easily enough
<Uzuul> sabdfl: but that's just a small beginning. The big things comes then ;-)
<sabdfl> well, let's take one step at a time :-)
<lavaramano> hi
<jsgotangco> there's huge interest in having free software in the entertainment hub and having this go along with Ubuntu will definitely create a following
<Uzuul> sabdfl: right, but some things can be done in // without impacting the schedule (like the LIRC improvements) ;-)
<sabdfl> we get a LOT of requests for media centre functionality, so it will be great to be able to point folks at Elisa
<sabdfl> LIRC?
<Seveas> infrared
<Seveas> remote control things
<jsgotangco> ahh for all-in-one remotes
<mako> sabdfl: absolutely
<Treenaks> (shouldn't lirc be replaced by proper kernel input drivers?)
<dholbach> I'm very happy you're keen on getting this done and are so enthusiastic about it; I'm with sabdfl here: I'd recommend splitting up the long list of goals in tiny tiny tasks, so you can easily track them and get people involved with them
<Uzuul> sabdfl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RemoteControls
<Daviey> Treenaks, being worked on already
<Treenaks> Daviey: \o/
<Uzuul> Daviey: can you contact me back for more info? I have a task underway upstream on that...
<Daviey> Uzuul, pm
<Uzuul> dholbach: the tasks splitting is planned.
<sabdfl> Uzuul: what do you need from us right now?
<Uzuul> sabdfl: an official blessing, and a mailing list.
<sabdfl> +1 from me
<MikeB-> +1 from me, definitely an area Ubuntu should support
<jsgotangco> there's some work to be done, but it seems there is more work being accomplished upstream, so I would give my +1 as well to have something for Ubuntu in the future
<dholbach> +1
<mako> if you really have ~30 members, it seems that this would be overdue
<mako> +1 from me
<sabdfl> elmo?
<dholbach> Uzuul: it'd be nice to hear back from you team every now and then to see how you're progressing (maybe on one of the other mailing lists)
<elmo> +1
<sabdfl> Uzuul: i think you can proceed, elmo will likely chime in with additional comments and questions in due course
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> congrats Uzuul! please keep us posted, and good luck building your team
<jsgotangco> Uzuul: good luck along with the team!
<sabdfl> ok, loco's!
<Kaleo> thank you guys :)
<sabdfl> kjcole: around?
<Uzuul> sabdfl: thanks fellows. I'll keep you informed (any prefered ml?)
<philn> \o/
* kjcole is here
* rafael_carreras is here
<hku> cool :)
<sabdfl> Uzuul: keep the UWN folks abreast of news that the whole community will be interested in, and perhaps report back here every month or so initially
<sabdfl> dcteam!
<dudanogueira> Uzuul, congrats!
<sabdfl> let's go
* beuno takes nots for the UWN
<beuno> *notes
<kjcole> Hi. The Washington, DC LoCo Team's been around for a while but we were under the impression that we'd been formalized.
<jsgotangco> anyone from DC team aside from kjcole
<jsgotangco> ahh
<Uzuul> all: thanks. we'll do the necessary to succeed. see you soon. bye
<flint> jsgotangco, I am here.
<beuno> Uzuul: get in touch with me for the UWN
<kjcole> jelkner's on, but teaching class, so attendance is spotty at best.
<jono> hi all
<VooDoo> hay jono
<Seveas> hi j.
<sabdfl> i've been aware of this team for some time, also thought they were formalised
<kjcole> We've now got a forum, and are scheduling meetings.
<jsgotangco> yes same here
<jsgotangco> and this is a fairly active team in the US, if not the first
<jsgotangco> (especially in the education front)
<sabdfl> qq
<sabdfl> how does he do that?
<Seveas> unicode
<jsgotangco> lol
<sabdfl> ah
<Florencia> lol
<flint> sabdfl, I formed this group after Ubuntu Down Under. that was a while ago....
<Seveas> lots of madness in there :)
<kjcole> Our web site is undergoing change now, as we work with high school students, and they get the opportunity to redesign it.
<ogra> oh, hey flint !
<sabdfl> ok, kjcole do you want anything other than a quick ack? we know and love ya :-)
<Treenaks> sabdfl: www.xs4all.nl/~johnpc/uniud/
<flint> sabdfl, nice touch the unicode! hey ollie!
<jsgotangco> yes, i even got to talk to jeffrey elkner in person that they were forming something...
<kjcole> sabdfl, cute trick. I gotta learn that with the upside down text.
<mako> sure, i'd be in a bunch of touch with flint and kjcole about the team
<jono> the dc team looks promising
<kjcole> I guess we're just looking for the official blessing / rubber stamp.
<Vorian> I can vouch that the DC team does a LOT for the DC area...  Great team!
<jono> membership is quite low though
<mako> if anything, i think we might have really pushed the team before there was a formal procedure
<sabdfl> kjcole: any recent events or highlights you can tell us about?
<kjcole> We're planning the Free/Open Source Software in Education conference (FOSSED) for August.  That's the biggest thing on our plate.
<jelkner> we are setting up several community computing center in the dc area using edubuntu
<sabdfl> where will that be held?
<flint> sabdfl, they have the yhslug meeting coming up Friday.
<kjcole> Once again, we'll be doing Software Freedom Day (year 3 for us) and the Takoma Park Folk Festival (year 2) in the fall.
<jono> kjcole: what plans do you have to grow the membership?
<jelkner> jono: our membership doubled in the last month
<jono> jelkner: right
<kjcole> Gallaudet University, my place of gainful employment.  But we're aiming at K-12 primarily.
<Vorian> jono, they have a new forum on ubuntu forums, that should be a big boost.
<jelkner> we really need to just be more aggressive in asking folks to formalize it
<jelkner> we've been a bit lax in that
<flint> jono, the goal is also aimed at the U.S. high school age 11-18 years old...
<popey> sabdfl, elmo, mako, I have to disappear, but Daviey asked me to flag wave for him. Consider this a flag wave :)
<mako> popey: sounds good, thanks
<jono> right
<kjcole> For a team that's based around an area not even considered a state, how big a membership should we have?  We're trying to keep it to people who are genuinely interested enough to get signed up on Launchpad...
<jsgotangco> surely you can get more people with enough exposure to local events?
<MikeB-> jono: the DC area is a different beast, since it is such a commuter town.
<jelkner> i have a question about this...
<jelkner> we touch a lot of people
<jono> team looks good to me
<flint> The point of the DC LoCo is that it should be "grandfathered" in because it lead the whole LoCo concept.  Is this a numbers game, or is having representation in the US Capitol just a good idea?
<jelkner> most of them will not become "members"
<jono> but I would like them to concentrate on growing membership
<jelkner> we think of members as activists
<kjcole> Well, there are people who are interested as end-users...   And, we're starting to get local "competition" (for lack of a friendlier word).
<jelkner> we will work for more members
<sabdfl> i don't think there's a "necessary threshold" of numbers
* mako nods to sabdfl 
<sabdfl> and the DC team has pioneered a number of great concepts in the use of free software in education
<jsgotangco> it still does for sure
<mako> the only reason that the DC loco isn't "official" is that they predate the official concept
<sabdfl> so i'm +1 on formalising them as an Ubuntu LoCo team
<dholbach> I'm personally quite happy with what the DC team did until now
<jono> indeed, membership is not an identification of a good team, it just helps with sustainability, and it is clear the DC team is doing good work
<kjcole> (Within a short subway ride we have the DCLUG, NOVALUG, YHSLUG, UMDLUG, DC Loco, NE US Regional Loco, MD Loco...
<flint> The DC LoCo is also affiliated with no less than three LUGs in the DC area, in DC, Maryland and Virginia.
<dholbach> (and thought it was formalised already)
<kjcole> We were just first among LoCo's.)
<mako> i thin it should be *every* teams goal to grow membership in that one of the goals to spread the word
<mako> that said, while the numbers of participants can be a very good sign of the activity within a loco, it shouldn't be a litmus test
<jono> mako: exactly
<flint> mako, we spread the code, and all else comes to pass.
<dholbach> +1 from me: uo o
<mako> jono: i mean, 1 person is not  much of a team :)
<Uzuul> beuno: ok, I'll update you asap for the first milestones.
<flint> :^)
<jsgotangco> +1 as well o
<jono> mako: heh
<mako> +1 from me
<MikeB-> +1 from me
<mako> this upside text is making me naseous
<jono> mako: you should have seen a recent approval application I got ;)
<flint> I gotta learn how to do the upside down thing...  Thanks to all!
<mako> "No (Wo)Man Is A LoCo"
<jsgotangco> jelkner: whatever happened to colin applegate
<jelkner> he is back
<jelkner> was away at college
<jelkner> now back for the summer
<jsgotangco> good to hear
<jsgotangco> time flies
<Seveas> Next: beuno and the Argentina team
<mako> althought they might be loco
<kjcole> Thank you all.  Does one of you update the LoCo page or shall we move ourselves?
<flint> Colin is asleep as one could expect from most teenagers...
<Vorian> congrats kjcole and flint!!!  uo o :)
<beuno> thanks Seveas
<mako> a particiuarly appropriate comment for the argentina team?
<jojopas> Good Evening sirs. It's getting awfully late here and I need to go home. But before I leave, I would like to endorse Mr. Dax Umaming. My name is Jojo Pascua and I attended mr. Umaming's Ubuntu Training held at Lourdes College in Daet, Camarines Norte, Philippines last April 11. I learned a lot from him and he accomplished a lot in just one day. His training was very precise and will surely help out the school. I'm now using Kubuntu. By the
<jojopas> way,he managed to convert the whole school to use Ubuntu. And because of him, single-handedly, 800 Kinder, Elementary, high School, and College students will be using Xubuntu 7 this coming school year in June. Also, he'll be back by the 3rd or 4th week of June for another trainig, but this time it's for the local gov't of Daet, with gov't agencies joining him. I hope you consider him. I'm not a member of Ubuntu rarely in IRC, so my apologies if
<jojopas> I disturbed anyone. thank you and Goodnigth!
<juliux> kjcole, why are you wearing a fedora on the picture on your wikisite?
<beuno> mornin' sabdfl
<jsgotangco> ummm jojopas bless you
<jojopas> sorry
<kjcole> Because Ubuntu doesn't have as nice a looking hat. ;-)
<beuno> I'm Martin Albisetti and I'm representing the Argentina LoCo today. The team has been active for over eight months, and in that time we've grown up to over 100 members in Launchpad alone, participated in a few Instalfests and promoted Ubuntu all over the Country. Some of us have even traveled over 400km to other locations and setup booths to talk to people in conferences (see some great pictures linked in the Wiki). We also provide *a lot* of
<beuno> support to users in the forums and Mailing List. Links: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArgentinaTeamApprovalApplication and https://launchpad.net/~uluga/
<flint> juliux, I agree with you on this point.  But I think the Red Hat is worn in pity.
<flint> :^0
<sabdfl> thanks jojopas
<jono> have we not got to the catalan team yet?
<Seveas> (I added that to the wikipage of Dax Umaming)
<rafael_carreras> Nice to meet you, Council
<mako> juliux, kjcole: fedoras are nice hats
<mako> jono: nope
<jono> mako: right
<sabdfl> ok, Catalan team?
<rafael_carreras> her we are
<sabdfl> fire away
<rafael_carreras> The Ubuntu Catalan LoCo Team is a very active, fast growing group of people that gathers the Catalan-speaking users community of Ubuntu in all its varieties. The scope of the Catalan LoCo Team is mainly the Catalan Countries, that is, the territories where Catalan is traditionally spoken, where members and volunteers are scattered practically all over their geography. Its aim is to support and promote Ubuntu amongst the Catalan
<rafael_carreras> speaking community as it is the most important resource of information about Ubuntu in this language. We are a very heterogeneus and varied group of people focused on spreading the free software philosophy, specially Ubuntu, and have several projects in mind that will be carried out by our different workgroups in the near future.
<jono> can I just say that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CatalanTeam/ApprovalApplication is the finest example of an approval application seen yet in the project
<jono> well done
<alex_muntada> :-)
<rafael_carreras> thanks
<arualavi> :)
<hugolp> :)
<wgarcia> :)
<orestes_> wow!
<papapep__> thanks
<carlesoriol> :)
<CoMp4c7> :)
<Seveas> jono, whoops, thought i didn't see rafael
<mako> ok wait...
<mako> i'm getting really confused
<dholbach> let's stay at the catalan team now
<sabdfl> mako:  happens to me quite often too
<sergi> good job!
<flint> pqs su
<mako> i just got done reading through the stuff on the argentine team
<beuno> mako: Catalan team is up first, we got confused
<mako> alright
<dholbach> the team seems to be up and running quite well - lots of people on the mailing list and nice wiki pages as well
<jono> ok catalan
<mako> dholbach: the catalan team?
<dholbach> yes
<jono> I think the team seems to be doing excellent work
<jsgotangco> i am not to familiar with catalan or its history, but from what i understand this is a team composed of people using catalan the language so its possible to have members in spain, france and italy?
<mako> alright, we're doing the catalan team, in case anyone else is confused
<sabdfl> this is pretty fantastic - i love the fact that there is participation from cultural, artistic, development, linguisitic and educational sources
<alex_muntada> jsgotangco: that's right
<jsgotangco> this is very intereting
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CatalanTeam/En says "Define activities and objectives." on your TODO list - rafael_carreras: do you have any plans for the next weeks and months?
<jono> oh
<rafael_carreras> next Sunday we wil have an install--party
<jono> so this is about the catalan language?
<alex_muntada> dholbach: this is the roadmap, in english https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CatalanTeam/ApprovalApplication#head-894924807cb56c0fdfc7c58a49b8de0cf68b5c73
<mako> jono: agreed completely
<sabdfl> it's very exciting to see this level of activity in the region, two and 1/2 years after our Mataro distro summit :-)
<mako> this is a fantastic application
<alex_muntada> jono: what do you mean exactly?
<sabdfl> +1 from me, and congratulations to the team leaders on doing such a fantastic job of building a diverse community
<jsgotangco> "buntu Catalan User community gathers Catalan-speaking users of Ubuntu in all its varieties. The scope of the Catalan LoCo Team is mainly [WWW]  the Catalan Countries, that is, the territories where Catalan is traditionally spoken, where members and volunteers are spread practically all over their geography."
<dholbach> alex_muntada: thanks - it looks great
<jono> I am keen to see loco teams based mainly on a country or state, and then those teams to come together to form language coalitions
<mako> i have been considering moving to barcelona for a bit, this is increasingly my desire to do so :)
<jono> is this team for a specific country?
<Seveas> jono, a specific region
<rafael_carreras> mako: wellcom, then :-)
<alex_muntada> jono: no, there's no Catalan country... it's about Catalan Countries
<jsgotangco> Spain, Italy, France, Andorra
<alex_muntada> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_countries
<toniher_uni> hi mako! I see you liked Vilanova
<jono> alex_muntada: right, so this team spans a number of countries
<jsgotangco> (or areas where catalan is spoken that is)
<toniher_uni> Hi all
<MikeB-> Northern Spain and Southern France mostly, I think
<carlesoriol> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_Countries
<alex_muntada> jono: that's it... i.e. in Andorra the official language is Catalan
<jono> right
<mako> the ultimate sign of a great team is that makes people want to move to their community to participate, +1 from me :)
<dholbach> +1 from me too - your team is amazing
<jsgotangco> it is a fantastic concept +1 from me
<jono> I vote a +1, the team is clearly doing excellent work
<Seveas> jono, you can't vote :)
<jono> and setting a standard for approval applications
<rafael_carreras> thanks a lot!
<jono> Seveas: not officially, but anyone can weigh in
<MikeB-> +1 from me, your are setting a fantastic example for other LoCos
<sabdfl> rafael_carreras: it would be amazing if you guys could write up a 1-page summary of how you inspire your team, which we could share with the rest of the comunityvia Ubuntu Weekly News
* mako nods to sabdfl 
<rafael_carreras> sabdfl: ok
<mako> i think a lot of other teams can learn a lot from you
<beuno> rafael_carreras: get in touch with me for that, we have a "special edition" on LoCos
* loudmouthman has taken notes already
<rafael_carreras> beuno: got it
<beuno> *we can have, that is
<mako> beuno: ok, i guess you're up now, but we have your blurb from last time
<beuno> mako: want me to paste it in again?
<mako> no, no, i don't thnk that's necessary
<mako> beuno: so you've been active for roughly 6 months now, it seems
<jsgotangco> bueno: how many active members are there from the LP's 100 listed
<jono> argentina team looks good, good to see regular meetings and different activities
<jono> healthy membership
<mako> reasongly consistent traffic on the list, good site
<dholbach> the forum and mailing list look quite active - how's the "Support network for beginners" coming along?
* mako nods to jono 
<beuno> mako: the team was created in September 2006, and it took a few months to start getting our resources together
* mako nods to beuno 
<beuno> jsgotangco: I'd say around 30ish
<beuno> shawarma: Support for beginners is our #1 activity on there
<sabdfl> that;s not bad
<dholbach> do you use a wiki for support answers? or a mailing list for questions?
<sabdfl> i see the team is moderated - what criteria do you apply to allow people into the team?
<beuno> we have around 10 or 12 VERY active members
<beuno> dholbach: we answer on a case-by-case basis on botht he forum and mailing list
<beuno> sabdfl: the team is moderated mainly just to be able to know new members when they arrive, no special requierements
<beuno> I like to great them :D
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> nice to see you using the mentorship piece in LP :-)
<beuno> we've been growing pretty fast the past few months, many new members each week all over the country
<sabdfl> and the web site is very slick
<sabdfl> also, martin is doing amazing work on UWN
<sabdfl> so, all in all, +1 from me
<beuno> sabdfl: I'm trying to teach everyone to use Launchpad, I'm holding a session for everyone in the LoCo in a few weeks
<beuno> sabdfl: thanks, boredandblogging, which is up for membership now has had a lot to do with that :D
<beuno> a lot of the LoCo members are here right now watching, maybe they can speak up?
<jsgotangco> good idea
<eternal1d1> hi
<marianom> Hi there. Mariano here, I'm with the Argentina Team too
<spg76> hello everyone
<duckman> hi!
<jmorelli> Hello, thanks Ubuntu, !!!
* beuno marianom is one of our mosta ctive members
<lavaramano> hi there
<eternal1d1> hi, my name is Diego, I'm from the Argentina Locoteam
<duckman> here from the arg team =)
<mlt> hi :)
<sabdfl> welcome all
<dholbach> hello Argentina! :-)
<sabdfl> and great work!
<lavaramano> arg member here
<Florencia> Ffrom the Argentina Team
<mlt> thanks sabdfl
<sabdfl> anybody else from the CC care to weigh in?
<jsgotangco> great to see everyone, +1 from me, i just want to ask, any major event the loco would be invoved with
<mako> +1 from me as well
<dholbach> +1 from me - well done everybody in the Argentina team
<MikeB-> +1 here
<dudanogueira> bueno, im from the ubuntu-br loco, we can exchange some ideas :) feel free to contact us :)
<sabdfl> alrighty
<beuno> jsgotangco: yes, we participated in the Flisol event (Instalfest all over latin america), and installed Ubuntu on close to 100 PCs
<Seveas> Membership candidates
<jmorelli> iupiiii, yeah !!!! beuno, you'r the one man !!!
<Seveas> We have 9 of them this time
<sabdfl> is everyone on the list, here?
<beuno> right, thanks sabdfl, mako, MikeB-, jsgotangco
<Seveas> boredandblogging, you're the first (Tm_T and nealcmb are missing)
<Daviey> sabdfl, here
<duckman> thanks for the membership!
<boredandblogging> ok...
<jsgotangco> Tm_T?
<marianom> thanks!!!!!
<boredandblogging> Hi, I'm Nick. I've been a linux user on and off for about 10 years. I've been using Ubuntu exclusively since Breezy. I started getting involved in the Ubuntu community at the beginning of this year. I've been helping the Georgia US LoCo get started and helping out as much as I can on the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter (it was Corey Burger's idea for me to apply for membership). And recently I've started working on the LoCo h
<boredandblogging> osting admin team. My wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NickAli
<eternal1d1> thanks !!!
* dudanogueira is here
<lipe_> thanks!!
<beuno> dudanogueira: will get in touch with you, thanks
<Vorian> boredandblogging, has done tremendous work for the Marketing Team, his loco team in Georgia (US) and the US teams project.  He is a diamond in the rough!
* nixternal recognizes boredandblogging as da bomb! :)
<Florencia> Thanks!
<slackwarelife> I'm Massimo, my launchpad id https://launchpad.net/~slackwarelife,   I started with linux 5 years ago. Thanks
<atoponce> i'm here to show my support for boredandblogging in building the GA LoCo team. he knows what he's doing, and is very active.
<dholbach> slackwarelife: hang on, it's still boredandblogging's turn
* beuno is behing boredandblogging 100%, he's been doing all the heavy lifting for UWN
<Seveas> slackwarelife, please wait your turn
<beuno> *behind
<jsgotangco> wiki is very informative and shows sustained contribution in UWN and documentation
<slackwarelife> dholbach: ok, sorry :-[
<MikeB-> boredandblogging: where at in Georgia
<boredandblogging> :-)
<dholbach> boredandblogging: nice wiki page
<boredandblogging> MikeB-, suburbs of Atlanta, Smyrna
<nixternal> CC: There isn't much boredandblogging and hasn't helped out with around here when it comes to the marketing team and with the US LoCo Teams! He is my hero, well jsgotangco is my hero, so boredandblogging would be #2 ;p
<boredandblogging> nixternal, lol
<nixternal> enjoy my wonderful abuse of the english language
<MikeB-> boredandblogging: cool, I'm an old member of Athens CHUGALUG
<boredandblogging> MikeB-, the guy who started the Georgia LoCo is a member of CHUGALUG
* nixternal used to live in Snellville
<Zelut> When I traveled to GA a few weeks ago boredandblogging setup a meet between myself and some of the team.  It was really productive I think.
<Vorian> CC: Since I met boredandblogging, he has done nothing but volunteer for projects, and see them through.  He is also too modest to tell you he is a LoCo website admin appointed by the great newz2000 himself.
<MikeB-> boredandblogging also does great work on the Forums
<MikeB-> definitely a +1 from me
<jsgotangco> I am happy to give my +1 as he is very much involved in almost all facets of community as well as the testimonials presented
<jsgotangco> (seems to be long overdue even)
* atoponce nods
<Vorian> jsgotangco, true true :)
<jsgotangco> others?
<Seveas> how many +1s do we need?
* mako still looking
<Vorian> the other CC members are in awe of boredandblogging
<Seveas> we have 8 CC members, is 4 +1s enough, or do we want 5?
<mako> yes, this looks fine +1 from me
<dudanogueira> im here :P
<mako> Seveas: you should definitely have a majority of those present
<mako> Seveas: and ideally a majority of the council
<MikeB-> Seveas: I assume a majority
<jsgotangco> point of order: a majority of the council would mean 5 members that means at least 5 should be present in every meeting
<Seveas> we have 7 present so we need 4
<dholbach> Seveas: we have 6 present, no?
<dholbach> jsgotangco: yes, we should have 5 in every meeting - that's how I see it too
<mako> jsgotangco: yes, that makes sense
<MikeB-> corey and matthew are out
<dholbach> I'm happy with boredandblogging has worked on until now, so he has my +1 too
<elmo> +1
<mako> +1 for board and blogging
<mako> if i iddn't already
<Vorian> w00t! congrats boredandblogging!!!!!
<alins> com ha anat?
<boredandblogging> wohoo! thanks
<Seveas> dholbach, ah, sorry
<Seveas> boredandblogging now has +4
<Seveas> sabdfl, elmo ?
<Zelut> boredandblogging: welcome
<etank> good job boredandblogging
<elmo> Seveas: I already voted
<elmo> 15:28 < elmo> +1
<dholbach> Seveas: np
<atoponce> boredandblogging: congrats
<Vorian> Seveas, he has 5 +1's
<Seveas> elmo, one of us is lagging, I saw your vote after my call :)
<MikeB-> boredandblogging: congrats
<boredandblogging> thanks everyone
<Seveas> anyway, congrats boredandblogging
<alex_muntada> alins was asking if the catalan team was approved... alins: yes!
<Vorian> well deserved boredandblogging :)
<Seveas> dudanogueira, you're up
<dudanogueira> ok!
<sabdfl> welcome, boredandblogging
<dudanogueira> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DudaNogueira
<mako> i might have to disappear in half an hour
<boredandblogging> sabdfl, thanks
<dudanogueira> im spreading the ubuntu all over i can.
<sabdfl> i have to switch to a conf call, so please keep going without me, will read scrollback
<dudanogueira> I'm an active member of ubuntu-br-mg, and also working to expand the Ubuntu Spirit for all over the MG state and, if possible, all over my country. My focus is on something i call "Users Profile Documentation", participating and organizing events (mainly in br-mg) and new users support.
<mako> MG is minas gerais?
<dudanogueira> mako, yeah!
<Seveas> I'm disappearing noe
<Seveas> now*
<jsgotangco> thanks Seveas
<Seveas> will do lp/wiki duties later
<mako> Seveas: thanks!
<dudanogueira> the most two active loco teams here in BR are MG (licio and me) and BA (Alexandro Silva and Fabio Nogueira)
<dholbach> thanks a lot Seveas
<mako> dudanogueira: MG is also one of the most populous states, right?
<mako> are you in belo horizonte?
<dudanogueira> mako on, SP is. we are the thrid ot second most popular
<dudanogueira> mako no, SP...
<mako> and are things centered around bh? i see it's a very large state
<dudanogueira> yes, im in belo horizonte
<dudanogueira> mako, Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro is the "center" of brazil. but they loco isnt so strong
<jwendell> i confirm the great job dudanogueira is doing. He's very active on IRC also, by helping people
<mako> dudanogueira: i like the start you've gotten to on some of your wiki pages
<jsgotangco> how active the ubuntu locos are during FISL? i see a jono pic heh
<dudanogueira> mako, my next plan is to help the guys of the ubuntu games. theres a very a mount of infos, but all in english. games is very important to catch kids attention. On FISL, when we did a local lan a lot of kids was amazed with the cool games
<dudanogueira> jsgotangco, ubuntu here is growing fast. on FISL i can say that we were the most active user groups, and more active then lot of commercial stands
<dudanogueira> (sorry about the bad english :P)
<dudanogueira> a lot of people asking for help, cds, fotos, sticks every time!
<mako> i see you have testimonials on your page
<mako> is anyone here to cheer for dudanogueira?
<dudanogueira> jwendell, and licio, but licio is on a meeting on his work, and should be back in few minutes
<dudanogueira> the other guys coudnt be here now, but let their testimonials
<jwendell> mako, i confirm the great job dudanogueira is doing. He's very active on IRC also, by helping people
<mako> alright
* mako is fine with +1
<mako> you've a good deal of visible activity that goes back well into last year
* jsgotangco gives his +1 as well
<mako> the documentation for some of it could be better, but with a little digging there's a pretty consistent and i suspect sustainable contribution
<mako> that i think makes a real difference
<mako> especially in your loco
<MikeB-> +1, great work
<dudanogueira> mako, im good with interviews and all. on FISL i talked for the main TV Station as the a community member
<dholbach> +1 from me too
<jsgotangco> ok looks good then
<dholbach> elmo?
<jsgotangco> elmo?
<jsgotangco> :D
<mako> who's up next
<mako> i turn into a pumpkin soon
<elmo> +1
<jsgotangco> ok DPic
<dudanogueira> right now im unemployed (on my own) and working with a UFMG project. last week i installed ubuntu on 20 pcs on their lab, and will continue into the secretary area
<jsgotangco> welcome dudanogueira!
<dudanogueira> UFMG == Federal College
<jwendell> congrats, and welcome, dudanogueira
<Belutz> jsgotangco, hi... and congrats :D
<dudanogueira> greaaaat!
<nealmcb> I"m sorry I missed my spot earlier, but am ready any time.
<mako> Dpic?
<dholbach> congratulations dudanogueira
<mako> Danny Piccirillo?
<MikeB-> congrats dudanogueira
<jsgotangco> seems not here
<dudanogueira> thank you all! Soon i'll be here again asking for a maling for the ubuntu games and sharing some other news :)
<mako> ok, moving on
<mako> the ominimously named, slackwarelife...
<jsgotangco> lol
<slackwarelife> I'm Massimo, I'm a Italian lan admin, I work in a Banck and I have started to use linux 5 years ago with Red Had. After I met Slackware using server and there was a big love. Now I'm helping in launchpad answer (I'm a member of Ubuntu support team) and I try to manager some bug. This is my wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Slackwarelife (The first part in Italian, the second in English). Sorry for my Engl
<slackwarelife> I write this before, hi all
<mako> is it possible to grant membership on the condition of a nick change ;)
<dholbach> hehe
<jsgotangco> lol
<mako> nah, slackware was my first too :)
<dholbach> what about bddebian then? ;-)
<mako> my first love.. the only problem was finding 50 floppy disks :)
<dudanogueira> slackware, as jono saw, is a very strong community here in brazil nowdays
<jono> indeed
<dholbach> slackwarelife: you are quite busy on the answers tracker it seem
<slackwarelife> mako: I start with Slack my linux experience, I love it too
<jsgotangco> impressive karma
<jsgotangco> 19205 in answer tracker
<mako> this is true, almost all answers
<slackwarelife> dholbach: I like to help who I can
<jsgotangco> but there has been a flurry of activity yetersday
<mako> slackwarelife: you seem to do a pretty impressive job of it :)
<mako> slackwarelife: how long have you been involved in ubuntu?
<slackwarelife> mako: I do all I can. Yesterd my wark was very big
<slackwarelife> mako 3 weeks
<mako> slackwarelife: ok, i'm going to ask that you come back in a couple months
<mako> slackwarelife: the requirement for membership is significant and sustained contributions
<mako> you've got hte first part, but not the second yet
<mako> i presonally like to see at least 3 months of contributions to the project
<mako> we want members to people who have put in a long term invement and gotten to know people, etc etc
<slackwarelife> mako: ok, I understand
<mako> slackwarelife: so my advice would be, KEEP IT UP! :)
<mako> you're doing a great job
<dholbach> slackwarelife: I'm very happy to see you helping out with answers and bugs, but I agree with mako.
<mako> lets see you in a couple months and, if your history is any indiciation, it will be a very easy decision :)
<mako> slackwarelife: cool, see you soon!
<mako> Knightlust: you around?
<Knightlust> My name is Dax Solomon Umaming. Been using Ubuntu since 2005 (Hoary). I'm most involved in advocacy. Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DaxSolomonUmaming Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~knightlust
<jsgotangco> same here, keep up those answer tracker performance
<mako> Knightlust: if your full name really Dax Solomon Umaming?
<Knightlust> yes
<mako> because i have to say, that's the coolest name ever :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<mako> Knightlust: you're lucky
<Knightlust> mako: my dad's a hippie, that;s why
<mako> i get stuck with the Benny Hill's name.. you don't want to know about my father ;)
* Jucato cheers for Knightlust's local FOSS advocacy and training projects
<kjcole> We had a guy working here named DejaVu Harmony...  Seriously.
<dholbach> Knightlust: it seems you're involved in a lot of different Launchpad teams - what have you been focusing on?
<jsgotangco> Knightlust: coming from Baguio city, i am not surprised
<`23meg>  kjcole, that's more like a font name :)
<Knightlust> kubuntu a few months and laptop. but now i'm really into xubuntu and edubuntu
<Knightlust> well mostly xfce on edubuntu
<jsgotangco> can you elaborate more on your community contribution?
<dholbach> Knightlust: did you chat with ogra and janimo/gpocentek already?
<Knightlust> I'm now involved with the government of baguio. we'll be installing LTSP on edubuntu in the next few months
<Knightlust> elections in the philippines, got it easy with the politicians
* dudanogueira need to go. Thank you all!
<Knightlust> dholbach: not yet
<jsgotangco> "got it easy with politicians" ?
<Knightlust> i actually got back from a talk. engineering society of saint louis university, 2 hours talk a while ago
<ogra> Knightlust, oh, i'd appreciate if someone could care for the xfce stuff we have on the edubuntu addon CD now :)
<Knightlust> jsgotangco: it's easy convincing them, they need my vote
<ogra> feel free to pop in to #edubuntu at any time :)
<Knightlust> will do ogra
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> Knightlust: i am not sure I'd like to take that in a nice way
<sabdfl> +1 from me, belatedly, for dudanoguiera, for contributions to the IRC, lists and local team building
<Knightlust> hehe, well, they love to take credit for it. and Gov. Domogan loved the idea
<sabdfl> mako: which TZ are you in?
<sabdfl> +1 from me for slackwarelife, on the back of a superb contribution to community support and QA
<sabdfl> oh, noting the 3 week track record, support the suggestion to come back in a month or so
<mako> sabdfl: utc-4
<slackwarelife> sabdfl: thanks, but i understand mako's idea
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 17 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 20 May 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<Belutz> jsgotangco, have a time to chat? :)
<jsgotangco> Belutz: feel free to PM
<Belutz> jsgotangco, ok
* BenC muscles in for the kernel team meeting
* Belutz praise sabdfl :D
<MikeB-> +1 for me Knightlust, if it is not too late, seem to be lagging
<mako> no, we didn't decide on Knightlust
<BenC> you guys take your time though, we have a light agenda
<mako> at least lets finish with Knightlust
<sabdfl> Knightlust: how long have you been contributing to the project?
<mako> Knightlust: are you associated with a loco?
<Knightlust> since January 2007, but my previous work at a call center, its' 2 years but not really focused into Ubuntu
<Knightlust> in our call center, we focus on all distros.. mako: ubuntu-ph
<jsgotangco> well what i can say about Knightlust is that he has been very enthusiastic on helping out to organizations that need some sort of orientation towards ubuntu or free software
<dholbach> it seems that most of your advocacy actions will be in the next weeks
<jsgotangco> that as well
<jsgotangco> from what I know, he has been pretty involved in having good webcam support
* mako nods jsgotangco 
<dholbach> Knightlust: have you been involved with ubuntu-ph for your advocacy work?
<Knightlust> yes, my work at our lady of lourdes college
<dholbach> have you been working together with other team members for the presentations?
<Knightlust> dholbach: no, i got them mostly from the research and the presentation wiki
<mako> dholbach: yeah,  that's what i'm trying to get at
<mako> you've obviously done great work
<sabdfl> +1 from me for knightlust
<MikeB-> +1 for knightlust
<mako> yeah +1 fro mme
<jsgotangco> i would give my +1 as well as I've seen him take action effectively, but am not sure about the politicians thing ;-)
<mako> Knightlust: but i think your work will benefit from hooking up with others more frequently
<mako> jsgotangco: we can each have our own battles :)
<dholbach> +1 from me too
<Knightlust> mako, will do that
<mako> since there's another meeting scheduled here, it might be worth postponing the last two on the list
<jsgotangco> i just don't like the idea, we just had our elections yesterday, and its not really a pretty sight
<Daviey> mako, :(
<nealmcb> :(
<dholbach> and it'd be nice to hear how your presentations go
<`23meg> :( indeed
<Knightlust> thanks all
<mako> Daviey and `23meg, i guess that's you
<`23meg> yep :)
<nealmcb> Again, sorry to miss my spot earlier - it's early here....
<jsgotangco> and nealmcb
<Daviey> mako, one of my supporters has made a special effort to be here - late for a new job! :(
<mako> well, you'll be first next time :)
<mako> Daviey: we're already 15 minutes into another meetings time
<`23meg> I think the kernel team isn't in much hurry
<kjcole> Ta-ta then...
<superm1> BenC, would it be okay to at least squeeze one more?
<mako> superm1: two more, and with our current timing that might be half an hour
<BenC> I think we can do with 30 minutes for our meeting, just wondering if there's anyone waiting for it besides the ones that are paid to :)
<zul> me but I can wait
<mbt> Same here.  I just like to watch.  :)
<superm1> me, i'm a bit late for work in trying to wait on this -
<BenC> How about this, I'll move kernel team meeting to #ubuntu-kernel, you guys finish up with CC, that's more important
<mako> BenC: ok
<mako> BenC: thanks for being accomidating
<BenC> no problem
<superm1> thx BenC :)
* BenC ushers kernel folks to #ubuntu-kernel
<mako> `23meg: go, quickly
<`23meg> Hello. I'm a 26 year old hybrid of a freelance designer, graduate student and starving artist living in stanbul, Turkey. I've been using Ubuntu full time since the mid-Warty period, and my most significant contributions have been providing support and writing guides in the forums, where I signed up in March 2005, and doing translations in Rosetta. I'm also one of the leaders of the newly formed Forum Ambassadors team, which is working
<`23meg>  on improving the connection between the forums and the rest of the community.
<mako> i need to disappear in -15 minutes
<`23meg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MuratGunes
<jsgotangco> any forum ambassadors advocating for `23meg
<mako> holy crap, that's a lot of posts to the forums
<`23meg> :)
<MikeB-> I would like to say that 23meg is one of the true leader in the forums. He does a fantastic job there
<dholbach> mako: yeah, definitely agreed
<mako> `23meg: i'm impressed with the bredth of your contributions, and with the depth of your work in the forums
<dholbach> `23meg: you want to join the MOTUs? anything you'd like to work on?
<mako> any other testimonials?
* PriceChild cheers for `23meg about work on the forums.
<Hobbsee> from what i see, doing a bit fo FA stuff, he seems pretty clueful
<PriceChild> Very active member, helpful :)
<mako> or other people from the forums that can speak to the nature of `23meg's contributions as a hole
<jsgotangco> "hole"
<nealmcb> sounds more like a mountain than a hole
<mako> whole, whole
<`23meg> dholbach, I'm planning to look into stuff missing from Universe that gets popular requests in the forums; whatever part of it I can maintain
<dholbach> `23meg: let me know how your way into MOTU goes :-)
<sabdfl> +1 from me for `23meg on forums contribution!
<`23meg> dholbach, will do :)
* jsgotangco is happy to vote +1 as well for forum leadership and contribs
<dholbach> +1 from me too
<MikeB-> +1 for me, only because I can't give a +2 or more
<dholbach> MikeB-: hehe
<`23meg> :) thanks everyone.
<Daviey> me?
<mako> well +1 from me, not a hard decisoin
<mako> Daviey: yes, you're up
<sabdfl> Daviey: fire away :-)
<Daviey> Hi, I'm Dave Walker and i would like to be considered to become a Ubuntu Member.  My wikipage is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/davewalker .  I'm currently involved mainly with the Mythtv for Ubuntu and actively contribute to my LoCo (Ubuntu-uk).  Currently I'm No2 contributor to #ubuntu-uk (I'm sure popey is a bot).   I also contribute towards advocacy towards FOSS with my highlight being a recent letter being printed in a UK national newspaper.
<nealmcb> mako: and if there is time, me also?
<Daviey> Everything else should be on the wiki :)
<Daviey> popey couldn't be here, but sang a song for me (scroll up)
<mako> nealmcb: we'll see
<mako> popey: i saw it
<MikeB-> Daviey: I saw it
<mako> sorry, Daviey i aw it
<loudmouthman> And the Loudmouthman chimes in with Daviey is a fine addition and exemplary community member to the UK and UK irc group.
<Daviey> (and the UK in general) :)
<mako> anyone else from the uk loco
<superm1> Daviey has been a great help with the -mythtv team and newly starting mythbuntu team as well
<dholbach> Daviey: you're part of ubuntu universe contributors? what have you been up to? also the BugSquad - how did it go in there?
<Daviey> mako, I think only popey and loudmouthman are aware I'm standing
* loudmouthman looks at Daviey, funny I thought you were in a chair, hmm okay !
<loudmouthman> whoops wrong channel !
<superm1> these last few months he's in the channel as much as possible helping out with support to users coming in and providing more ideas for the team
<Daviey> dholbach, At this stage i have only contributed one package of my own work, but have worked on joint efforts for some other packages
<dholbach> Daviey: great, which one is that? have you helped out with reviewing or how have the joint efforts worked out?
<Daviey> dholbach, There is a link at the bottom of the wiki to the package.
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> what about the bugsquad? what did you do in there? did you find it easy to contribute?
<Daviey> not at all!  It can be quite difficult the interact with the bugreporter
<Daviey> Especially trying to get dumps and other crash reports from users
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 17 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 20 May 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 22 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<mako> well, you've done a wide variety of different types of work and have been around and active for a long time
<sabdfl> Daviey: do you have any feedback on tools we can build to improve that, for example, apport?
<mako> i'm happy with membership, +1 from me
<superm1> Daviey,  has been quite instrumental in mythbuntu's start, and managed to go the extra mile in getting us our domain.  He ended up having to phone someone half way across the world who had already purchased it, and got him to join our team. (you can see the site in the works at www.mythbuntu.org )
<X3N> I love Daviey
<Daviey> sabdfl, certainly - i think if amport could be interactive
<sabdfl> and could you give us a quick status report on mythbuntu?
<Daviey> sabdfl, i suspect there are triagers who are happy to man 1-1 at inital report... We are a big enough community with timezones and such
<superm1> atm we have an alpha ready
<superm1> that works as a live cd frontend
<superm1> and a basic frontend/backend installation
<superm1> what remains is a lot of work to the installer
<superm1> to handle the different types of installations
<Daviey> sabdfl, we do have an alpha image avaliable - currently our next task is to get a grip on ubiquity installer
<dholbach> Daviey: you also seem to be quite interested in asterisk - do you think there's anything we could improve there?
<dholbach> hi Burgundavia
<Daviey> dholbach, definitely - we need FreePBX in universe
<MikeB-> Burgundavia: found some internet I see:)
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Burgundavia> hostel in Madrid
<dholbach> Daviey: it'd be nice to have a ubuntu-voip team taking care of that
<Daviey> That is on my todo list of packages for MOTU
<Daviey> dholbach, that's definitely a team i'd like to join.  Myth team might not like me sharing resources tho :)
<superm1> :)
<sabdfl> +1 from me for Daviey
<jsgotangco> +1 from me as well for Daviey
<dholbach> +1 from me too - it'd be nice to have your input for a ubuntu-voip team :)
<Daviey> dholbach, also UDS seville VOIP improvements :)
<MikeB-> +1 for me
<Burgundavia> anybody working on asterisk is a +1 from me :)
<dholbach> nealmcb: still around?
<Daviey> Wooo... thanks guys!  And especially thanks to superm1 for making himself late for work to say what he did
<dholbach> are you the last on our list?
<nealmcb> yup
<nealmcb> I woke up a bit late...
<superm1> congrats Daviey .  catch up with you later
<loudmouthman> Congrats Daviey
<sabdfl> i have to step afk, good luck nealmcb, welcome aboard Daviey
<nealmcb> I'm Neal McBurnett.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NealMcBurnett   I've been an Ubuntu user, promoter, contributor and distributor since the first release in 2004, on servers and desktops, for myself and several non-profit organizations. I've been active with *nix since 1977 (at Bell Labs) and have never had Windoze on my desktop.
<nealmcb> if there's time...
<Daviey> thanks sabdfl and cc
<jsgotangco> 1977! I was just 3 years old!
<nealmcb> I know you want to go, mako....
<nealmcb> jsgotangco: :-)
<mako> nealmcb: it's fine. i brought my laptop to the meeting :)
<nealmcb> I've been active in the Colorado LoCo, having helped Joey start it a year ago.  I've edited a bunch of wiki pages, authored the identity-selector spec and commented on others.  Some examples are linked to from my wiki page.
<nealmcb> I'm now working on an Ubucon for Colorado, having helped organize two Barcamps, and beginning to get my feet wet with code contributions via bzr and Launchpad. I'd like to also use my enterprise Linux/Solaris experience from Internet2 and Bell Labs to contribute to the NetworkAuthentication efforts.  And I'm hoping to participate in a Colorado education conference where one of our members is presenting an Ubuntu demo: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/TIE
<nealmcb> What I didn't do was get testimonials from joey stanford, nixternal, ajmitch or some others I can think of
<nealmcb> I've been "slow but steady" in my contributions....
<jsgotangco> anyone from the colorado team at the moment?
<mako> it looks grewat
<mako> but i would really like to hear from some people in your loco if that's where you locate most of your contributions
<nealmcb> On his page, joey says "These folks are worth getting to know.    Neal McBurnett - Invented the Internet and speaks Esperanto  "
<nealmcb> He looked my page over and gave me advice but I forgot to ask him for a testimonial....
<dholbach> ajmitch might be well sleep now
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Burgundavia> nealmcb: any esperanto people here to comment on that translation work?
<nealmcb> Mi dubas... :-)
<nealmcb> I doubt it
<dholbach> nealmcb: you're involved in a lof of specifications - are there any where you'd like to get involved in?
<nealmcb> The network auth area is the place
<Burgundavia> I see you contributed code to n-a
<nealmcb> See e.g. my spec for identity-selector (above)
<Burgundavia> anything else aside from the linked code?
<nealmcb> Not yet in n-a
<Burgundavia> hmm, not having any endorsements makes it hard to judge
<nealmcb> ajmitch included it, but it was just better doc for the README :-)
* nealmcb nods
<mako> nealmcb: why don't you just have the loco people send testimonials
<mako> i'm happy to make a decision by email
<nealmcb> :-)
<dholbach> and the network-authentication people too
<mako> i don't suspect it will be problematic
<mako> right
<Burgundavia> that works for me as well
<jsgotangco> same here should be easy enough
<dholbach> yeah, I'm happy with that too
<nealmcb> mail to who?
<mako> nealmcb: just have folks email community-council@lists.ubuntu.com
<jsgotangco> (not to mention i gotta crash as well)
<mako> yeah, this meeting has gone on too long
<nealmcb> will do - thanks - I'll let you go....
<mako> thanks everyone
<dholbach> thanks a lot nealmcb
<mako> one last thing
<dholbach> thanks
<mako> next meeting
<mako> two weeks from today, how about a bit later
<mako> 22UTC, lets say?
<Burgundavia> that works
<jsgotangco> should work for me if i get up early
<mako> 5/29 22UTC
<dholbach> 20 utc maybe? else it will be ~2-3 in the morning for me when the meeting finishes :)
<mako> sounds good
<mako> dholbach: 2 hours meeting
<mako> i think we should get facist about this
<dholbach> so 2 in the morning, when it finishes
<mako> especially now that we're just a much larger group
<mako> ok
<mako> can 21UTC work?
<dholbach> wfm
<jsgotangco> ok not bad i will still be able to do my morning run
<mako> dholbach: the whole point is to make it possible for different group
<dholbach> yeah
<mako> dholbach: like west coast users
<dholbach> right
<mako> USers
<mako> not users
<MikeB-> 21 or 22 UTC works for me
<jsgotangco> holy cow that's 5am for me heh we'll see
<mako> alright, i'll mail seveas
<mako> jsgotangco: yeah, you don't have to make it :)
<mako> that's why we're a big group
<jsgotangco> yup
<mako> so, this is the first meeting with the new council, right?
<jsgotangco> yup
<dholbach> yeah :)
<mako> well, then THANK YOU NEW COUNCIL
<MikeB-> seems to be
<nealmcb> Thanks to you all for volunteering!!
<orestesmas> Thank you all from Orestes - CatalanTeam
<rafael_carreras> thank you all
<carlesoriol> Many thanks - catalan team
<arualavi> thank you all!
<papapep__> People from CC, many, many thanks from Catalunya -CatalanTeam
<jsgotangco> our pleasure OLD COUNCIL
<jsgotangco> :D
<alex_muntada> thank you all and congrats to new members and teams!
<mako> i think this is a quiet but a major major milestone for the council and for the community more broadly
<MikeB-> thanks mako, and congrats to new Locos and members
<boredandblogging> thanks everyone
<mako> canonical employees are now in a minority on our highest governing board
<jsgotangco> thanks good one
<mako> ;)
<MikeB-> mako: lol
<mako> thanks everyone, see you all next time
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> thanks - see you
<jsgotangco> ohhh mobile mockups
<MikeB-> later all
<jono> jsgotangco: where are the mockups?
<mako> nealmcb: nice that you're a wikipedian also :)
<Burgundavia> hmm, indeed
<jsgotangco> jono: kwii sent them to the embedded list
<mako> all my favorite projects :)
<jono> link?
<mako> good day/night/morning all!
<nealmcb> mako: thanks - fun
<nealmcb> I wish we could track moin entries like wikipedia entries
<Burgundavia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/2007-May/000018.html
<jsgotangco> jono: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/2007-May/000018.html
<nealmcb> good incentive for contributors to count 'em up
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 17 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 20 May 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 22 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Spec> does anyone have today's CC meeting logs?
<pochu> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<ian_brasil_> #ubuntu-mobile
<amachu> hi
<amachu> the CC meeting got over?
<amachu> at 13.00 hrs?
<dholbach> hello amachu
<amachu> dholbach: hi
<amachu> amachu: was the cc meeting over?
<dholbach> yes, it's over
<dholbach> it was at May 15 2007, 13:00 UTC
<dholbach> UTC
<amachu> ok..
<dholbach> what timezone are you in?
<amachu> India
<dholbach> if you run    date -u   it will tell you what time it is in UTC
<amachu> dholbach: no problem.. any discussion on Ubuntu derivative
<dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html
<dholbach> 03:03 until 03:07
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-16
<Ju> hello !
<MurcimiRiAm28> http://www.nuevointernet.com/votar.asp?id=84
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 20 May 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 22 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<flint> @schedule NewYork
<flint> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 17 May 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 16:00: Forum Council | 20 May 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 22 May 16:00: Technical Board | 23 May 16:00: Edubuntu
<RichEd> Hello Edubunteros
<Treenaks> hey RichEd
<EduardoL> hi.
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<RichEd> Let me give a last call in #edbuntu and then we'll kick off
<ogra> ola
<flint> RichEd, Is there a meeting this morning?  God it is early!
<RichEd> hey flint ...
<jsgotangco> hi
<flint> ogra, Hi olli!  My kid is still dealing with the German banking system.  ...and he is a contortionist!
<RichEd> I'll start with a logistics discussion quickly
<ogra> flint, i fear i cant help you much here ... if he has a valid id he should be able toi just easily open an account
<RichEd> We've been looking at reducing the Edubuntu meeting time to 1 hour ... it somehow crept up to 2 hours a while back and does tend to drag on
<RichEd> So ogra and I bounced around the idea of:
<flint> ogra, Thanks! he is in a beautiful place...
<RichEd> 1 hour - edubuntu product ... tech focus
<RichEd> 1 hour - ubuntu and education - web and community and direction and management focus
<RichEd> that would allow the tech guys to concentrate on the first hour
<RichEd> and then people like kubuntu and ubuntu education related could be invited to join the 2nd hour and not get stuck in product issues
<RichEd> --- comments ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> sounds sane. i'll be back in 50 minutes :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> ok, tech ?
<RichEd> if that seems generally okay, I'll split the existing agenda ... and change the fridge and we can try it out next week
<RichEd> thanks ... take it away Mr Tech ogra sir
<flint> ogra, engard avez le tech!
<ogra> we had two wonderful conferences in sevilla :=
<ogra> :)
<flint> ogra, I am not bitter...
<jsgotangco> ogra, I am not bitter...
<ogra> during the edu conf we prepared some stuff to discuss later at the tech conf ...
<flint> ok, a little bitter.... just a bit.
<ogra> there were a bunch of ltsp specs as well as specific edubuntu ones
<ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-update-manager-integration https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-palm-devices https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ldm-improvements and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-boot-performance would be the most noticeable ones for ltsp
<ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-addon-enhancements https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-application-review and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-user-management were the4 rather edubuntu specific ones
<ogra> beyond theese we're working on an image for the new intel classmate PC (i guess everyone who reads planetr already heard that)
<ogra> we're (actually the distro team) about to hire a second ltsp developer
<ogra> so i will be able to concentrate more on the educational side of things and on the mentioned classmate
<jsgotangco> very nice
<willvdl> classmate++
<ogra> sadly vagrantc isnt here, he'*s the hot candidate for the ltsp stuff and will also work closely with the edu team
<ogra> he's currently still travelling through spain with Burgundavia :)
<ogra> i hope i can introduce him in one of the next meetings depending on his wlan access
<willvdl> ogra, I am not bitter...
<ogra> heh, me neither ... *snort*
<ogra> so thats about it ... currently i try to perpare the ltsp stuff vagrant cant do while trabvelling (all the HW related things) so he can just jump into coding
<ogra> if i'm done with the worst i'll jukmp on the classmate
<flint> I move that there be no more discussion of bitterness due to the beauty of the Spanish countryside... second?
<ogra> thats all from my side, feel free to bomb me with questions now :)
<willvdl> ogra, perhaps a bit of elaboration on mass deployment?
<ogra> willvdl, do we have a spec for that ? i wasnt in any of these sessions
<ogra> i know there is a spec, but was it discussed at all for *edubuntu* ?
<willvdl> well, there was an ubuntu one but it seems to rather touch on other specs (I got the impression)
<flint> ogra, are you able to get your little fingers on an intel classmate?
<ogra> well, its a feature the hugely grown server team will bring us ... i was counting on inheriting the technique
<jsgotangco> he did
<jsgotangco> flint: the more it will just make us bitter
<ogra> flint, yes, its sitting here on my desktop
<willvdl> ogra, gotcha
* Kamping_Kaiser investigates classmate
<flint> ogra, ok, Now I am bitter...
<flint> :^)
<ogra> the server team is grown by a huge amount, i expect them to develope stuff we can use
<ogra> so the edubuntu side of things in the server area tried to keep really with the *edubuntu* side of things ;)
<ogra> we definded a gui solution to do mass user management in the default user management gui
<willvdl> gotcha, jsut reread the spec
<ogra> which i think is important to be done intuitive for teachers ...
* RichEd chips in with some facts and figures about mass deployments in Spain:
<ogra> since we got the userbase to gaiun good feedback i think it falls into the edubuntu realm ... while i think that mass deployment in general is a clear ubuntu-server task
<RichEd> In spain there are 8 regions ... 7 of which have open source government backed education initiatives
* willvdl nods
<RichEd> 6 of the 7 are based on ubuntu
<RichEd> Guadalinex alone is 180,000 desktops
<willvdl> 185,000 and counting :)
<jsgotangco> what a heavenly place to settle
<RichEd> We estimate 400,000 to 500,000 education desktops across spain
<RichEd> Guadalinex manage the 180,000 desktops with 30 support staff
<ogra> with every region cooking their own soup
<ogra> sadly ...
<ogra> but they all have a common ancestor ;)
<jsgotangco> how colourful!
<willvdl> ogra, I doubt for long
<RichEd> All the tech guys agree that a closer base to Ubuntu is better than the derivative approach ... and all want to cooperate with getting apps into repositories etc.
<ogra> willvdl, you wont change politics in spain
<flint> Ogra is correct, but there is a benefit to this chaos.
<ogra> they will still want to sell it as *theoir* solition
<RichEd> The upshot is that we are working on a case study to show other countries that you can deploy Edubuntu and Ubuntu across entire regions as a realistic solution.
<ogra> but the more we can get in under the hood the easier it will get for everyone ...
<RichEd> hence the need for mass deployment and management tools
<ogra> well, if there are no more questions about tech stuff we can go on ... lets not waste time with silence :)
<willvdl> ogra, were you in on the edubuntu-kde spec?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> Riddel wants to generate an edubuntu-kde metapackage
<ogra> which is fine for me
<willvdl> how would that fit into the Edubuntu CD?
<ogra> not at all
<flint> ogra, a Kedubuntu CD eh?
<willvdl> aha, so just a list of tools/addons needed to get kde working with ltsp then?
<ogra> its just about being able to unstall edubuntu-kde to get a kde based desktop if you urgently want
<ogra> *install
<ogra> no its unrelated to ltsp
<willvdl> except for TCM porting that is
<ogra> the ltsp-kde stuff was to identify the problems with kde and fix them but thats mainoly on kde side not on ltsp side
<ogra> and it was only aorkshops that resulted in bugs
<ogra> *workshops
<ogra> nothing to spec there, kubuntu just needs to fix the bugs
<willvdl> so the kde folks will work on that integration?
<ogra> most stuff we did was covered by the ltsp pecs anyway
<ogra> foir the ltsp side that is
<ogra> right, the only thing that was missing was full sound integration
<ogra> all other stuff just works
<ogra> for local devices we'll do some enhancements anyway that will fix the probs for them
<ogra> beyond these two areas all was fine we found
* jsgotangco really hungry and have to go down for dinner will just scrollback later
<ogra> beyond edubuntu scope we'll likelyx get an ubuntu-ltsp flavor on the next server CD ...
<willvdl> sweet
<ogra> that means i need to put some time into my gui tools as well ...
<RichEd> ogra: please mail me the LTSP pdf ... Mr K is neing a bit slack
<RichEd> *being
<ogra> ltsp-manager needs to be ready for release and TCM needs to get nmore testing in big deployments
<willvdl> any plans for italc?
<willvdl> ;)
<RichEd> ogra: maybe we can suggest that they look at a LTSP Add on CD for small business ? a bit of a combo of LTSP and the small business server spec ?
<ogra> i will work on these as well as the ldm enhancement spec ... the rest will go to vagrant
<ogra> RichEd, i assume business people will have a decent internet connection
<ogra> no need for an extra CD
<RichEd> depends on the country ... africa small business have the same problem as africa schools
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall is all they need to do ... a partially written gui wrappe exists already and i agreed with steve george that i would finish it for gutsy
* RichEd will take it offline as a sideline to the small business server team guys
<ogra> so all you will need to do is two clicks and watch the progress bar
<ogra> RichEd, the plan is to let the server CD die
<RichEd> okie
<ogra> and have a DVD only server release that includes ltsp as well
<ogra> and varoius other flavours
<ogra> so people in countries with low bandwith probably should get the edubuntu CD ;)
<ogra> since that will stay a CD based server
<ogra> consensus was that you will need a beefy machine to run as ltsp server, so its likely they have a DVD reader at least
<willvdl> shall we move on?
<ogra> these things use to come with DVDs nowadays
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i'm done if there arent more questions
<ogra> so feel free to move further
<willvdl> I'm curious to see what happens with TCOS in future...
<RichEd> oh ... one thind to add on the DVD CD issue
<ogra> we'lkl add it to universe and stay away from it as far as we can :)
<RichEd> There was a suggestion that there is a DVD LTSP Ubuntu / Edubuntu ... and a CD LTSP Edubuntu
<RichEd> So Edubuntu stays as is on a CD ... for people with old h/w servers
<ogra> TCOS remiplements ltsp 4.2 without using nfs but with re.introducing all probs ltsp4.2 had
<ogra> its unmaintainable
<RichEd> But a DVD is produced that you can install either Ubuntu or Edubuntu install for LTSP ...
<RichEd> This was a end goal ... and may only be a 1 year target.
<ogra> to do that you need to grow DVDs ;)
<ogra> the DVD doesnt even include all of main
<willvdl> or shrink Main :)
<ogra> i'm fine if someone makes room and adds edubuntu-desktop to the ubuntu server DVD though
<ogra> but the target of the discussiojn we held was to have a ubuntu ltsp option on the server CD
<ogra> since that wont work due to space constraints of a CD it was suggested to let the CD for ubuntu vanish completely
<ogra> and switch ubuntu server to a DVD release
<ogra> edubuntu wasnt discussed at all there, only as the distro to steal the ltsp suff from
<flint> RichEd, maybe the edubuntu design team needs to co-opt the process of sharing LTSP code to other projects?
<ogra> as soon as we integrate stuff like moodle or network auth, we'll need to do that in the installer in edubuntu, so we'll stay bound to your first CD
<RichEd> flint ... expand on that a bit more ? which projects do you mean ?
<ogra> flint, all ltsp development is done in ubuntu except the installer integration
<flint> RichEd, ogra just named two,  moodle or network auth.  Add a POS system to integration and you got the biz guys...
<ogra> so the actual outcome of the discussion for me personally means "make the installer bit work in ubuntu"
<ogra> which is trivial and costs me less than an hour of work ;)
<jsgotangco> the only decent POS that is free software out there requires java
<ogra> flint, yes, thats what the ubuntu server DVD will be for
<ogra> but thats out of scope of the edu team
<flint> jsgotangco, yea, tina POS is it.
<RichEd> flint: we are building a single CD (.iso) Moodle2Go based on Edubuntu ... quick clean install of a complete appliance
<Kamping_Kaiser> i dont understand the dvd/cd seperation here - what goes on what media?
<ogra> i'm fine helping the distro guy who is responsible for ltsp to implement it, but my focus is edu
<flint> RichEd, I was addressing ogras concern about stealing...
<RichEd> flint: so as that relationship expands, we'll explore more - we had a moodle core developer at UES and UDS
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, for ubuntu its planned to only have a DVD for ubuntu-server in the future with many many install options
<ogra> one shall be ltsp
<ogra> edubuntu will stay as is
* RichEd missed the stealing concern and scrolls bacl
<RichEd> *back
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah, so we keep the edubuntu workstation install cd, and use 'the' ubuntu server cd?
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders if canonical will send server dvds
<willvdl> no, that's just for ltsp in ubuntu
<ogra> flint, i will be the thief ... stealing was rather meant metaphoric
<flint> After my hiatus coming back up to speed for me will take some time eh?
<willvdl> ltsp in edubuntu stays the same
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, noithing changes for edubuntu
<flint> ogra, I completely understand, but I could hear the emotion in your words.
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, ok. i supose i'll have to finish downloading trhe feisty isos and try tehm to find out what wont change :)
<ogra> flint, the code we have in edubuntu for the automatic setup of ltsp isnt in ubuntu yet ... that one needs to be moved
<jsgotangco> seriously?
<flint> ogra, ah.
<ogra> there is only positive emotion here, i'm totally happy about that :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, the udeb is there but not used or preseeded
<ogra> its quite trivial
<jsgotangco> yeah i would think that
<ogra> the one big prob for ubuntu is that ltsp needs a -desktop package on the CD ... you need something you can log in to
<ogra> that gets -server in a slightly grey area ...
<ogra> but its job of the marketing guys to care for that ;)
<ogra> s/CD/DVD/ indeed
<ogra> two mins to go....
<ogra> and other questions ?
<willvdl> not me
<ogra> (according to the fridge the CC meeting should be now ... that was yesterday, wasnt it ?)
<jsgotangco> yes, whoever manages the fridge calendar didn't change it
<ogra> (not noisy enough in he for pre CC time)
<ogra> *here
<jsgotangco> we had a good attendance yesterday, and the new CC as well
<ogra> ok, i'm done then ...
* ogra hands the mic back to RichEd 
<RichEd> Let's kick in a quick artwork update as a bridge subject ...
<RichEd> We spoke recently about bringing the artwork for edubuntu into a more formalised process ... so the work gets done in time for releases without a deadline panic
<RichEd> So edubuntu and kubuntu sat with kwii (Ubuntu Art Lead) at UDS
<RichEd> We suggested to Ken that we'd like to work our art in a way that the community can contribute ideas and draft works to edubuntu ... but that ken makes sure the end result is professional and up to standard.
<RichEd> And that it relates back to the ubuntu theme ... like the various flavours of Coke have their own brand, but look like the same family.
<RichEd> And he was happy with that. Will is looking at an overall timeline for each release, and is buiiding in deadline and trigger days for all docs required and all artwork required ... so this should end up smoother this next release cycle.
<RichEd> cbx33 and aliasvegas will be brought into the art cycle.
<RichEd> ---
<RichEd> any other artwork issues right now ?
<ogra> he asked as well that all contributions go to art.ubuntu.com  instead of being scattered over various wikipages
<ogra> we have an edubuntu category there
<jsgotangco> honestly this art issue has been around since like breezy :/
<ogra> yep
<RichEd> jsgotangco: same old story, but we made some good face-2-face progress
<willvdl> essentially, the deadlines are the same for normal packages as the artwork ends up in a package
<RichEd> so hopefully it will go to bed now
<ogra> willvdl, not really, we usually have an artwork deadline in the release schedule
<willvdl> yeah, but it gets packaged as well
<ogra>  17
<ogra> 
<ogra> August 16th
<ogra> 
<ogra> 
<ogra> 
<ogra> <!> Rebuild Test, Upgrade Testing begins
<willvdl> it's in the release schedule
<ogra> ArtworkDeadlineOne
<ogra>  19
<ogra> 
<ogra> August 30th
<ogra> 
<ogra> 
<ogra> ArtworkDeadlineTwo,
<ogra> bah pasting from the wiki is crap, sorry
<willvdl> it's on the wiki release schedule for gutsy
<ogra> August 16th first artwork deadline, August 30th second, September 20th GutsyArtworkFinalDeadline
<willvdl> I suppose the web theme was also discussed as an artwork topic
<ogra> not in the BOF i was in ...
<willvdl> nope :)
<ogra> and since its neither package nor archive related we are able to set our own deadlines here
<willvdl> well, the www.u.com has a new drupal template
<RichEd-1> hi ... damn adsl reset :(
<willvdl> which was suggested that we (as th locos do) and kubuntu take, modify to our look 'n feel
<ogra> i thought pips1 works on something on beta.e.ch
<willvdl> and reuse
<ogra> ah
<willvdl> ogra, that's not our www.e.org front
<ogra> i thought it was supposed to move if he's done
<RichEd> willvdl: that's what I was about to say before I got ejected ... let me expand
<RichEd> We also spoke to ken about the revamp and revision of the edubuntu.org web site ... * new look & feel * move to drupal theme based
<RichEd> We need to : 1 revise look & feel to move from kiddies to teens
<RichEd> 2. revise content
<ogra> take out "move to drupla" ;) we were the ones that pushed for drupal against the admins ... now they also switch ;)
<ogra> edubuntu.org is on drupal since it exists ;)
<ogra> thanks to highvoltage who pushed hard for it
<RichEd> ogra: move as in move to the new template structure ... sorry about the bad wording :)
<ogra> ah, k
<RichEd> corey showed us this look & feel : http://diy.devubuntu.com/spread.php
<ogra> just wanted to give credit to highvoltage :)
<RichEd> and then we showed ken the whiteboard and clock artwork that pete and lisa put together
<RichEd> and came up with the idea of a "component theme" for edubuntu.org based around school whiteboard element
<RichEd> so if you look at the example above, change the post it notes to whiteboard elements ... that'sa rough idea
<RichEd> the comment was that if we move away from showing kids in the desktop backgrounds etc. then we reduce the "narrow age aim" and also compliants about "why is there not a XXX race person" etc
<willvdl> post-it notes?
<willvdl> presumably where it says "yikes" should be something unbroken
* RichEd checks the link
<willvdl> RichEd, so who's going to finalise on the theme?
<RichEd> works for me now will ? okay for you ?
<RichEd> ken will do a mock up for us ... and then we will approve here in a meeting
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks :)
<RichEd> the structure and page alignments etc. should closely follow www.ubuntu.com as it exists right now
<RichEd> so we are really only going to change the picture elements ... and possibly have some new drupal blocks
<willvdl> ok, gotcha
<ogra> hmm, the css on http://diy.devubuntu.com/spread.php is broken for me
<ogra> some overlaps there
<RichEd> ogra: try now ...
<ogra> nope, no change
<RichEd> we also want to make sure that we get a link or section on the www.ubuntu.com download and get ubuntu pages
<willvdl> ah: http://diy.devubuntu.com/
<willvdl> gives the answer...
<ogra> lol
<willvdl> yeah, the current download links on www.u.com only list ubuntu downloads
<willvdl> same for kubunut.com and edubuntu.com
<RichEd> at the moment, people see the ubuntu reviews or news releases, and go to www.ubuntu.com and hit Get Ubuntu and there is no obvious link
<RichEd> which I think loses us 1000's of potential eyeballs
<jsgotangco> click thrus, google juice as well
<RichEd> so we need to fix that ... so again, if we can keep our look & feel a simple flavour change from Ubuntu ... then it is easire for matt nuzum to add links for us and allow for a smooth user experience as they bridge across to our site
<ogra> same as for the desktop artwork :)
<willvdl> and the wiki
<RichEd> also it means that we can reference standard areas like "support" etc in header bars on our site that link back to ubuntu,com resources
<ogra> yeah
<RichEd> people will know when they are on edubuntu specific pages when they see the art change
<RichEd> all from me on artwork ...
<RichEd> Will ... Doc Topic ?
<willvdl> sure, this will be quick
<ogra> beyond that we agreed to drop ozur edubuntu artwork package and use ubuntu -artwork package creation tool in the future
<ogra> so we have consensus for the builkd processes as well
<ogra> (just as a tech remark)
<willvdl> not too many doc folks at UDS
<willvdl> unfortunately
<ogra> yeah, sadly LaserJock had to leave early
<willvdl> but was good to chat face-to-face with a number of edubuntu doc contributers
<willvdl> the issues are:
<willvdl> 1) how to work our content into ubuntu TBH content
<willvdl> 2) so as not to affect handbook scope
<willvdl> 3) or duplicate effort
<willvdl> but as the wonderfully pragmatic sbalneav pointed out: content content conotent
<elkbuntu> hmm... oops
* elkbuntu notices Will and sneaks back to the email she's supposed to write
<willvdl> heh
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 18 May 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 20 May 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 22 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<elkbuntu> i think we covered alot of it when we spoke though
<willvdl> so we'll open up contribs on the wiki instead
<willvdl> using scripts to create the xml
<willvdl> and manually scrape sections for the TBH sections.
<willvdl> is a little more manual work than it should be but is best solution under circumstances
<flint> RichEd, good sitting in and getting a feeling as to what is up.  I will be updating my lab soon.  Thanks all and later sksk
<willvdl> elkbuntu, indeed :)
<willvdl> questions?
* Kamping_Kaiser cant ask questions until trying out the new docs layout in feisty, since his questions revolve around doc usage
<willvdl> we need to follow the doc-team as closely as possible
<willvdl> it's jsut that the handbook is structured differently
<RichEd> okay ... if no questions ... then can Will explain a bit about the App Inclusion Process ?
<RichEd> (and then I will wrap with community in the last 10 mins)
<willvdl> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-application-review
<willvdl> Process was assigned by LAserJock to help with 2nd CD selection of apps
<willvdl> RichEd quickly and rightfully pointed out that the scope of app selection is much wider thatn jsut 2nd CD
<willvdl> so the new education community space would have a channel for suggesting/vetting/voting/commenting/reviewing/ software
<willvdl> which we would use to feed into the app-review-spec process
* RichEd has lots to say on this ... but will and I will put together a structure for show & tell next week ... easier to show than to describe
<willvdl> which is basically there to ensure that ogra and co have a shortlist of apps for main inclusion reviews etc.
<willvdl> and that MOTUs have a goal
<willvdl>  /nutshell
<willvdl> please help out with this one, is a biggy and confusing :)
<Burgundavia> will and I also spoke about the scope and how it might shake out
<Burgundavia> me?
<Burgundavia> I am in the middle of siesta
<ogra> no reason
<willvdl> it was also born out of the need to publish a list of supported apps in edubuntu
<RichEd> not just to show what is supported, but also for promotion to back up our angle that edubuntu is so much more than a desktop
<RichEd> at the moment we say "ships with many great education apps" ... which sounds like sales speak ... the reality is much more impressive and convincing ... so we should be able to show it off
<RichEd> willvdl ogra mvo and I are working on this, with a lot of dynamic tension between us to get to a consensus solution ... we'll show you more next week
<RichEd> -- Community --
<RichEd> Jono Bacon and I are working on creating an education community focus within the overall Ubuntu community
<RichEd> Jono will use his loco structure to manage from the top down ... each loco will be asked to elect an education representative
<RichEd> We'll promote through our end users and schools, and them to work from the ground up.
<RichEd> The idea is to encourage SLUGS (Schools Linux User Groups) and get them on projects and talking to each other, and we'll try to get a university in each area to provide facilities for meetings / talks / training.
<RichEd> We presented this at UES and lots of enthusiasm. We'll target say 4 countries to get it up and going, and build some easy to repeat recipes for events and projects.
<RichEd> The idea will be to use this as a way of getting more interest in Edubuntu, and to provide a way to start to recruit enthsiastic resources, some of whom will grow into tech-community resources
<RichEd> --- the idea has been around for a while, but now has focus and momentum ---
<RichEd> Any comments ?
<Burgundavia> what is the smallest piece we can get going in the imm. future?
<willvdl> it's a good idea. I'm sorry I was in another session next door at the time
<willvdl> smallest piece? electing representative. getting LoCo buyin
<RichEd> Burgundavia: the school enthusiam with Guadelinex in Sevilla was very high ... they are very keen to share lessons
<RichEd> We will use them as a test base ... as well as Georgia - a win for Kubuntu.
<Burgundavia> loco buyin will happen with resources
<willvdl> resources?
<Burgundavia> shiny stuff to do things with
<Burgundavia> websites, printed crap, etc.
<RichEd> The Georgia schools (exUSSR) are actively doing their local language translation as a school lesson project ... with small competitions and prizes
<willvdl> ah, resources
<RichEd> So we want to make this into a repeatable recipe, and then try out in Spain.
<RichEd> This looks like the first small project item we will tackle, as it has many pay-offs for all.
<RichEd> It gets more local language translation accomplished, for use by all (not just schools)
<RichEd> It illustrates to the govts that open source is more than a desktop shoot-out ... that kids can leanr and contrinute to the country
* willvdl loves translation projects
<RichEd> *learn
<RichEd> *contribute
<RichEd> So that is a small step we will tackle soon.
<RichEd> (like in the next 2/3 weeks)
<RichEd> Rather than speculate about what can be done, let's get the practical start in place and expand.
<RichEd> ---
<willvdl> we should introduce them to translate.org/wordforge folks
<RichEd> willvdl: indeed ... get a real project up and running, and then spread for cooperation ... vertically or horixontally
<RichEd> Well that is all from me unless there are questions or other issues ?
<RichEd> ogra: you got anything else ?
<jsgotangco> thats interesting
<RichEd> edubuntu meeting close : going once ...
<willvdl> I'm all good
<RichEd> edubuntu meeting close : going twice ...
<RichEd> Gonggggg ... thanks all ...
<willvdl> nggggg
<willvdl> nggg
<willvdl> ciao all, minutes are up
<ogra> RichEd, nope
<RichEd> thanks ... wrapped for today
<Kamping_Kaiser> thanks RichEd , thanks all.
<jsgotangco> that's pretty fast
<RichEd> jsgotangco: time is up ... you got more you want to discuss ? can we move to #edubuntu ?
<jsgotangco> sure
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-17
<mdz> good day all
<cjwatson> good afternoon Vietnam
<mdz> I'm trying to remember which countries have holidays today
<Mithrandir> .no, .dk, .de, .fr AIUI.
<bdmurray> not me
<Mithrandir> I'm not really here, I'm leaving for dinner at my father's in 15-ish minutes.
<mdz> that certainly accounts for a chunk
<mdz> BenC: kernel team accounted for?
<cjwatson> so I'm expecting BenC, bryce_, kylem, pkl, rtg
<mdz> Keybuk is ill today
<BenC> missing two
<cjwatson> and bdmurray
<mdz> and Riddell is on leave
<mdz> but I believe iwj is expected
<rtg_> here
<bdmurray> I'm here too
<tkamppeter> .pt is not a holiday, I am here.
<BenC> I think everyone thought like I did, meeting in an hour from now
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> bryce_: ping?
<mdz> BenC: why?
<BenC> 16:00 UTC == 12 noon my time
<cjwatson> -!- Topic for #ubuntu-meeting: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | ...
<mdz> oh, Scott's reminder and the distro team calendar disagree
<BenC> right
<mdz> I have a conflict at 1700 BST
<cjwatson> iwj: ping?
<mdz> if everyone is here, I'd prefer to do it now
<BenC> pkl and kyle are probably not required, so I say move on, and let them catch up
<cjwatson> mdz: also adilson?
<mdz> he's apparently at lunch, so probably expecting 1600 UTC
<mdz> cjwatson: the email I sent to you/Scott earlier outlines my current areas of interest
<mdz> cjwatson: could you run the meeting at 1600 UTC for me?
<cjwatson> I had been hoping to leave at 1630 UTC today
<cjwatson> but I guess so
<mdz> cjwatson: do you have any agenda items?
<bryce_> cjwatson: I'm here
<cjwatson> mdz: not at this point
<iwj> Hi.
<iwj> Oh, now would be OK.
<bryce_> now's fine for me too
<cjwatson> why don't we just go ahead now; we seem to have nearly everyone
<mdz> sounds good
<cjwatson> first item is UDS output
<cjwatson> all the workshops should be written up, ideally by the end of this week
<mdz> Colin and Scott will review with each of you
<cjwatson> if there are any parts you can't remember, the sysadmins are working on producing voice recordings, but hopefully you all have notes
<mdz> it's important to have the writeups from UDS done soon, as memory fades
<cjwatson> does anyone have any questions about that process?
<mdz> for specs which were produced independent of UDS, the hard deadline is 31 May
<mdz> but enough detail is needed at this stage for the selection process
<cjwatson> mdz and I have done an initial pass over everything we could find and tried to set priorities
<mdz> everything which is concrete and feasible should be proposed as a gutsy goal
<cjwatson> no doubt some things will need to be added, and others tweaked
<iwj> gutsy goal> Oh, I should check that for mine.
<mdz> the tech board, canonical, etc. will review the list and construct the overall roadmap
<mdz> is everyone clear on what's expected for gutsy specs?
<mdz> silent assent :-)
<Mithrandir> is there anything different than before?
<Mithrandir> I'm aware of the template changes Scott made
<Mithrandir> but anything else?
<mdz> the timeline we just explained
<Mithrandir> I meant the content.
<Mithrandir> (sorry for not being clear)
<mdz> nope
<cjwatson> speaking of which, the spectemplate now has a release note as a mandatory item
<cjwatson> I can well imagine that a release note will not be appropriate for everything
<mdz> the template has changed slightly; if it's not self-explanatory, ask
<iwj> I've been writing those in the past tense even though they're in the future.  I assume that's correct ?
<cjwatson> how about "mandatory for user-visible items"?
<cjwatson> iwj: writing which?
<iwj> == Release Note ==
<cjwatson> yes, it's for cut-and-pasting
<mdz> cjwatson: it's a good exercise to describe the value of the work, even if it's not user-visible
<cjwatson> (theoretically)
<iwj> I think the person assembling the release notes can decide to ditch it if it doesn't seem sufficiently interesting.
<cjwatson> in that case, I will edit the template to say that not all notes will necessarily be included
<mdz> it should be obvious who the approver should be for each spec, if it isn't already set
<mdz> cjwatson: works for me
<iwj> mdz: Do you mean that we should set the approvers or do you mean the techboard will know ?
<cjwatson> if in doubt about the approver of a spec, it's the manager of the main person in Canonical responsible
<iwj> Right.
<mdz> iwj: you should
<cjwatson> unless there's some exceptional circumstance (e.g. other expert)
<mdz> otherwise it won't show up on that person's approval list
<mdz> ok
<mdz> we're planning a mobile mini-sprint next month, which just a few folks will attend
<mdz> if you're working on a team project which would benefit from such an event, please let me know
<mdz> that's pretty much all from me today
<mdz> other business for the meeting?
<cjwatson> oh, other item is merges
<cjwatson> I assume everyone is aware from -devel-announce that the merge-o-matic is running
<cjwatson> the gutsy release schedule calls for Debian auto-syncs to be frozen on 21 June, by which time all packages in main requiring a merge should have been merged at least once
<BenC> cjwatson: any chance of getting a merges-bof for people who aren't yet familiar with the process?
<BenC> docs are currently geared toward people who already know debian packaging
<mdz> I think there's an existing MOTU school bit for that
<BenC> ah, maybe those docs are a bit better
<cjwatson> by my count, that would be amitk, asac, bdmurray, bryce, evand, pkl, rtg, maybe kwwii
<cjwatson> but it's not too critical for the kernel team or bdmurray
<cjwatson> or kwwii come to that
<BenC> merges seemed a good way for amitk, pkl and rtg to get into packaging
<bryce_> kees schooled brian and I on merges (but using DaD not MoM)
<cjwatson> BenC: a fair point
<cjwatson> if the MOTU school documentation isn't adequate, let me know and I'll be happy to run a quick bootcamp
<BenC> ok
<mdz> sounds like a good topic for the mailing list, as some new folks aren't at this meeting
<cjwatson> to clarify, after the Debian import freeze on 21 June, merges and explicitly-requested syncs are still permitted without approval until 16 August
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
<cjwatson> mdz: ok, that's all from me
<mdz> ok
<mdz> last call for other business
<bdmurray> The distro sprint is in early July on that schedule right?
<cjwatson> bdmurray: correct, the "Developer Sprint" item
<mdz> that wasn't on the calendar yet, fixing that
<bdmurray> Some was trying to tell me it was August but I won't name names.
<cjwatson> if it was me, I claim temporary insanity. :)
<BenC> I think it was me, but I claim too much beer in Spain
<bdmurray> heh
<BenC> sprint is London, correct?
<iwj> t
<rtg_> How many days? It starts on a Thursday.
<mdz> BenC: yes
<mdz> rtg_: monday-friday that week
<iwj> rtg_: No, that Thursday is in the middle.
<cjwatson> I'll edit the schedule to note that
<iwj> All of the week-long things are on the schedule `on the Thursday' just because that's how the schedule is laid out.
<ogra> BenC, dont forget the fridge magnet ;)
<cjwatson> any other business?
<BenC> we don't have magnets here, we staple things to the cows
<ogra> so bring a cow then i heard there is lots of space ;)
<mdz> ok, that's a wrap then
<mdz> thanks, all.  apologies for the time confusion
<BenC> bye everyone
<bdmurray> bye
<pkl_1> yeah, bye
<adilson> mdz: I'm here, what's up?
<mdz> adilson: the weekly team meeting was held a bit early
<adilson> mdz: the weekly team meeting? I'm sorry but I wasn't aware of that.
<mdz> adilson: we have some catching up to do. you are subscribed to the distro-team mailing list, though, yes?L
<mdz> a reminder  is sent out the previous day
<adilson> Sorry, I'm not. I missed this list I guess.
<adilson> I'll subscribe right now.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 May 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 20 May 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 22 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 May 20:00 UTC: Forum Council | 20 May 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 22 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<arualavi> @schedule Andorra
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Andorra: 18 May 22:00: Forum Council | 20 May 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 22 May 22:00: Technical Board | 23 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-20
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 21 May 03:00: Xubuntu Developers | 23 May 06:00: Technical Board | 24 May 06:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 06:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 28 May 00:00: LoCo Team | 30 May 01:00: Kernel Team
<ajmitch> that's not too early for you
<Hobbsee> sure it is
<Treenaks> @schedule Amsterdam
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 20 May 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 22 May 22:00: Technical Board | 23 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 May 16:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team
<vinze> Has the Xubuntu meeting started yet?
<pochu> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 20 2007, 16:04:24 - Next meeting: Xubuntu Developers in 55 minutes
<vinze> 55?
<pochu> That's what ubotu says :)
<vinze> O wait...
<vinze> I always thought I was in GMT+1
<vinze> But then it turns out I'm in GMT+2
<vinze> ...
<pochu> vinze: summer time? ;)
<vinze> Oh that'll be it :(
<pochu> :)
<vinze> But does that increase GMT?
<vinze> Weird..
<pochu> It does, yes.
<vinze> So when summer time arrices, GMT stays the same but all timezones are +1...
<vinze> Stupid >.<
<shawarma> Er.. no. :)
<shawarma> Not every country switches to daylight savings time on the same day or at the same time of day.
<vinze> Ah OK
<vinze> That explains
<shawarma> Hence: We need a measure of time that is dependable regardless of our respective time zones.
<vinze> Right...
<vinze> I was already wondering when I installed Feisty ;)
<shawarma> Even if we all switched on the same day, we all do it at 2 a.m. *local* time. When should GMT switch?
<vinze> Yeah it's troublesome ;)
<shawarma> Precisely. :)
<pochu> There's a command to print the local hour in GMT, but can't remember which :)
<pochu> something -u :)
<vinze> Ah doesn't matter that much ;)
<stgraber> pochu: date -u I guess
<vinze> Yeah
<pochu> stgraber: yeah, thanks :)
<vinze> $ date -u
<vinze> Sun May 20 16:08:55 UTC 2007
<vinze> d'oh
<pochu> vinze: that may help you when you're in doubt ;)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<somerville32> Oh, look. My clock must be off by 5 minutes :/ -- all of my clocks, lol
<j1mc> hi all
<nixternal> howdy
<somerville32> Hiya
<earobinson> hey
<j1mc> wow, nixternal is here, too
* j1mc waves
<nixternal> sitting here at the CoDLUG meeting :)
<nixternal> it is nice and quiet here today
<nixternal> getting some hacking done
<j1mc> cool.
<ongardie> hey
<j1mc> hi ongardie
<somerville32> Is this the first xubuntu-devel meeting for Gutsy?
<j1mc> somerville32: yes it is
<somerville32> Awesome. I'm pumped.
<j1mc> me, too
<j1mc> according to the agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings ... we're supposed to cover:
<j1mc> featureset for 7.10
<j1mc> discussion of help center
<j1mc> ideas for 7.10 documentation (yeay!)
<j1mc> and ... whether or not to add a murrine gtk theme.
<j1mc> i am not married to this agenda, though.
* j1mc added the "yeay!" at the end of the documentation note.
* somerville32 is editing that wiki page.
<j1mc> np, somerville32
<j1mc> let us know when you're done.  we'll give you a few minutes.
<j1mc> hi maxamillion
<maxamillion> sorry i am late
<j1mc> np, cody is editing the agenda on the wiki
<maxamillion> good stuff
<j1mc> he'll let us know when he's done...
<maxamillion> ok
<somerville32> done
<maxamillion> grazie: !!! :) ... welcome to the meeting :) ... http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/898
<j1mc> ok!
* maxamillion checks the newly edited agenda
<grazie> maxamillion: thanks...just being nosey
<j1mc> grazie: agenda up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<maxamillion> grazie: you should participate! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<maxamillion> lol
* maxamillion was too slow
<j1mc> i'm out at free geek chicago.  ping me when discussion about documentation comes up.  freddy martinez and i have a lot of ideas and such.
<j1mc> i don't knw much about the help center.
<maxamillion> awesome
<maxamillion> wait .. the help center?
<grazie> maxamillion:  not a slow as my new broadband(?) connection
<grazie> j1mc: reading through now...
* somerville32 doesn't know who added that to the agenda.
* j1mc did
<j1mc> do we want to use it?  didn't we get a working draft ready for feisty?
<maxamillion> grazie: yeah, i am about to move into a new place in roughly 5 days and i am worried the broadband supplier there will be slow :/
<maxamillion> j1mc: i think you are talking about the welcome center
<somerville32> *centre
<somerville32> <g>
* j1mc goes to change wiki.  is it still something we're interested in?
<maxamillion> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Feisty/XubuntuWelcomeCenter
<maxamillion> somerville32: tomato, tomato ....
<somerville32> I question how useful it will be.
* maxamillion thinks that applies better when he can verbally express each pronounciation
<somerville32> The welcome centre is an interesting idea but it accomplish little more then documentation does.
<j1mc> i think so, too
<ongardie> it might get in the way if auto-started
<maxamillion> somerville32: i think it would be exponentially useful, giving first time users a quick overview of the project, and empowering them with resources they need to be aware of in order to accomplish every day tasks
<somerville32> aka - our documentation :P
<maxamillion> ongardie: it would only auto-start on the first boot of a fresh install and has a check box to continue autostarting, but will always autostart on the liveCD
<somerville32> Developing our own application is a lot of work and overheard.
<maxamillion> somerville32: well, yes .. that and the wiki, the forums, etc.
<maxamillion> somerville32: but 80% of our users never look at the documentation
<ongardie> i don't think the app would have to be that complex, but you'd have to get good content **and** translate it
* maxamillion didn't look at the documentation until he went to work on updating it
<somerville32> Then maybe we should find out how we can make the documentation more visible and useful to users?
<maxamillion> somerville32: put it in the welcome center :)
* maxamillion really thinks the whole docbook thing is rather useless
<j1mc> topic-based help is more useful than what we have in place now, though.
<somerville32> Maybe we should looking at removing any gnome dependencies from yelp?
<ongardie> maybe we can package the docs as html files and do the same thing as the welcome center, but with content we already have and through a browser that already exists
<somerville32> ongardie, Thats what already happens with the documentation.
<maxamillion> ongardie: yeah, the docs just pop up in firefox atm
<ongardie> well, then we just need to make that more visible
<somerville32> Firefox is rather "big".
<j1mc> i think that removing the gnome deps from yelp could be useful.
<maxamillion> somerville32: its about to get bigger
<ongardie> i don't see how putting the docs in a python app will improve everything
<somerville32> j1mc: Thats actually what I was thinking.
<somerville32> ongardie, I think what we want to accomplish is showing some kind of welcome documentation at boot. Firefox is for sure too heavy to be auto-started.
<j1mc> yelp looks an awful lot like the welcome center. :)
<maxamillion> ongardie: the welcome center was tested on a 200mhz machine with 128mb of ram, the load time was trivial and using the app was snappy
* somerville32 nods @ j1mc.
<ongardie> i don't know about you guys, but let's be honest: I would never open the thing and i sure as hell don't want it opening itself
<ongardie> a launcher on the desktop that opens a "heavy" application would suffice, in my opinion
<maxamillion> ongardie: right, but after the first boot of a fresh installation, you can tell it to never open again
<somerville32> I think adding a launcher would be a good first-step.
<maxamillion> lets be honest, the current wave of linux users is helpless and they need things shoved in their face before they have a clue what's going on
<ongardie> they are helpless when it comes to internals
<ongardie> i honestly believe most people can figure out the desktop apps without help
* somerville32 nods. 
<maxamillion> ongardie: i would hope so, that is all rather straight forward
<somerville32> As long as we can get it all to work right out of the box :)
<somerville32> Windows 98's welcome centre failed horribly.
<somerville32> We should learn from it.
<ongardie> what about windows XP's tour? they really made a mistake having that thing run without accelerated video drivers
<ongardie> heh
<somerville32> hehe
<somerville32> I think we should ditch the welcome centre project.
<somerville32> The other buntus do not have things auto-loading like that.
<maxamillion> anyone seen Vista's automated garbage?
<maxamillion> somerville32: no, but the ubuntu welcome center has been in the works for some time now
<j1mc> maxamillion: you mean the whole OS vista?  :)
<somerville32> maxamillion, And when it gets released, we can simply use that instead of developing our own.
<maxamillion> j1mc: heh ... no joke, i am tired of fixing that OS at work
<j1mc> somerville32: when what gets released?
<maxamillion> somerville32: and all the annoying gnome dependencies that come with .....
<maxamillion> j1mc: the ubuntu welcome center
<ongardie> i think the welcome center effort would be better placed in 1) improving the docs, 2) making the docs easily available to new users
<somerville32> It is easier to get rid of gnome dependencies then developing and maintaining our own software.
<j1mc> 1) would removing gnome deps from yelp be difficult? and . . .
<j1mc> 2) would yelp lead people to our docs?
<maxamillion> j1mc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWelcomeCentre
<somerville32> ongardie, I concur.
<ongardie> yelp depends on libbeagle? wtf
<maxamillion> i think their idea is bloated and overbearing and will ultimately fail .... just as microsoft's ... but our idea is simple, its just some docs that answer the most commonly asked questions
<maxamillion> ongardie: yeah, gnome apps are cool like that
<ongardie> maxamillion: heh
<somerville32> maxamillion, If you feel strongly about this project, you can continue to develop it, package it, and get it into Universe. It is pointless to debate this at this point when the thing isn't even ready to be included.
<ongardie> yelp depends on firefox?
<maxamillion> somerville32: agreed
<maxamillion> ongardie: probably just on gecko
<somerville32> ongardie, Most likely for the gecko engine.
<maxamillion> :P
<ongardie> oh right. i guess they still haven't properly separated the two
* j1mc is glad to reach an agreement on that.
* somerville32 declares the Welcome Centre dead.
<ongardie> the next item on the agenda is a biggie: "7.10 Documentation roadmap"
<somerville32> Woot woot! :)
<j1mc> w00t!
<maxamillion> bleh
<j1mc> hehe
<ongardie> heh
<j1mc> i'm excited about creating topic-based help for xubuntu.
<maxamillion> i can't stand writing docs, xml seems retarded to me
<somerville32> Who were the individuals that were really interested in helping with documentation?
<j1mc> me and freddie martinez
<somerville32> There was another fellow.
<ongardie> (i'm going to eat lunch, but i'll be back)
* j1mc is not sure
<vinze> Here I am :D
<vinze> What's the current subject?
<somerville32> Documentation
<j1mc> hi vinze ... talking aboug docs
<vinze> K
<j1mc> somerville32: perhaps it was vincent?
<somerville32> Ok, there seems to be an xubuntu-doc team
<j1mc> who is in it?
* maxamillion might be
<maxamillion> yup, sure am
<maxamillion> is there an editor i can use to exit the docs without having to traverse through xml?
* maxamillion finds xml as annoying as html
<somerville32> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc
<somerville32> maxamillion, Yes.
<maxamillion> somerville32: awesome
<maxamillion> what is it?
<somerville32> There a few different ones. You'll need to refer to wiki docs
<somerville32> As for documentation, wasn't there someone who agreed to head that up?
* j1mc and freddie?
<somerville32> Awesome! :)
<somerville32> j1mc: Tell us what you have planned.
<j1mc> yes, we are excited about this.  we're planning on having weekly in-person doc-hacking sessions this summer to completely update xubuntu-docs
<j1mc> we plan to get things in line with topic-based help
<j1mc> we are both part of the chicago-loco team, along with nixternal who does a ton of work for kubuntu docs
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Any plans on updating the stylesheet?
<j1mc> in terms of other specifics at the moment, we don't have much.
<j1mc> hadn't thought to update the style sheet yet, but that would be a good idea.
<j1mc> perhaps use some css from the soon-to-be updated xubuntu website?
<j1mc> somehow?  /me is not a css expert
<somerville32> I would speak with TheSheep.
<vinze> It doesn't look too complicated
<somerville32> but something more appealing would be nice.
<j1mc> agreed.
<vinze> Yeah, it's kinda... Gray
* somerville32 nods sadly.
<somerville32> I think it would be wise to have an xubuntu-doc meeting
<j1mc> somerville32: you reference "browser" in the meeting agenda.  care to elaborate?
<somerville32> j1mc: Same thing as in discussion about the welcome centre.
<somerville32> Firefox is big and bloated.
<somerville32> Having a light-weight doc browser would be useful, I think.
<somerville32> Maybe work with upstream?
<j1mc> with xfce folks?
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Gnome and KDE both have their own documentation browsers.
<j1mc> yelp is the one for gnome?
* somerville32 nods.
<j1mc> and you think that removing the gnome deps would be too difficult, and would rather get something from upstream?
* j1mc is just trying to clarify...
<somerville32> j1mc: We'll have to investigate.
<TheSheep> somerville32: wouldn't just a web browser be enough?
<somerville32> TheSheep: Thats the question.
<maxamillion> if we are looking at upstream, kalikiana is in the process of writing a lightweight GTK+ broswer in C using the webkit engine as opposed to gecko
<TheSheep> there is a number of ready ones too, even including dillo
<j1mc> maxamillion: thanks... where can we find info on that?
<vinze> Wouldn't Gecko be a safe choice in terms of website compatibility?
<maxamillion> don't know how far upstream it will be before a stable release results, but meh
<somerville32> I think it would be good to have a chat with the ubuntu-doc team.
<TheSheep> vinze: but we don;t need it for websites, and the documentation would be abviously tweaked for the browser
<maxamillion> vinze: yes, but webkit is what the OS X safari browser runs on, its rather feature rich to be honest
<vinze> Oh, you want a browser especially for docs...
<maxamillion> oh ...
* maxamillion was confused
<ranf> dillo is fast a lightening but tends to get ugly sometimes.
<j1mc> somerville32: what do you have in mind with chatting w/ the ubuntu-doc team
<somerville32> I don't think installing another, lighter, web browser is a very appealing solution.
<TheSheep> yelp uses gtkhtml2 and it's ok
<somerville32> j1mc: I think that they'd be able to help answer the questions we have.
<vinze> ranf, what do you mean by "getting ugly"?
<j1mc> ok.
<somerville32> I think the question at the moment is: Is a documentation browser other then Firefox appealing?
<j1mc> will we still go with docbook.xml, though?  we're just concerned about presentation, right?  that's the only thing that seems to be up in the air...
<vinze> But DocBook easily exports to other formats
<somerville32> We're for sure not moving away from DocBook.
<j1mc> i like the idea of having a separate app for documentation, if only because people open up a web browser and use it to start searching the web.
* vinze agrees
<vinze> (with somerville32)
* j1mc just wanted to clarify that portion so that we could start writing... w/o concern for the final presentation.
<vinze> I think you have a point j1mc but someone would need to take care of either removing gnome-deps from yelp or finding an alternative
<maxamillion> j1mc: i agree with you on your point about the docs opening in the browser and being ignored because people want on the net
<TheSheep> more modern templates (using xhtml and css) would be nice
<j1mc> TheSheep: yes, we agreed the current look is rather gray... :(
<TheSheep> j1mc: I tried to make a style, but basciallly everything is hardcoded in the html
<maxamillion> joy
<j1mc> TheSheep: yesss!  hardcoded into html is ... awesome.  :)
<vinze> </sarcasm> I hope
<maxamillion> awesome like a stroke
<j1mc> yes... sarcasm.  :)
<somerville32> You "compile" the docbook into html.
<TheSheep> somerville32: yes, we just need to use different templates
<j1mc> ... i'm sure that things will come up as we develop the new set of documentation, but we'll make the process as transparent as possible.
<j1mc> and we have good resources with nixternal and others.
<j1mc> i am confortable with the writing aspect, but... is there someone who would like to take on the application/presentation part?
<j1mc> ... would like to head that up?
* maxamillion is scared to volunteer ...
<j1mc> is it something we could push out to the mailing list to seek help with?
<j1mc> ... if no one here wants to take it up now?
<vinze> I'm afraid there won't be many volunteers
<vinze> Nah
<j1mc> hmmm... would it be a big problem to use yelp as-is, seeing as people don't open up the docs all that often?
* somerville32 is on the phone.
<j1mc> would the gnome deps be a big issue?
<gpocentek> yes
<vinze> I think most people aren't even aware of the docs
<j1mc> if it's going to be a big problem with getting a separate app, i say we just stick with having them in firefox for now.
<vinze> Yeah I guess so
<j1mc> maybe a nicer stylesheet will encourage people to use them.  :)
<vinze> Yeah I hope so :D
<vinze> Same goes for the default homepage
<j1mc> ok.  let's go with that for now unless someone objects.  besides, our manpower could probably be put to better use in other areas that more users will appreciate.
<vinze> Agreed
<maxamillion> i am really having trouble finding anything classified as a docbook viewer other than yelp ...
<maxamillion> i know it would be a pain, but anything think we should poll and see if the rest of the development community feels it worth while to remove yelp's gnome libs and make a yelp-gtk package in main?
<gpocentek> it'll be a mess
<vinze> Well, we'd need someone to step up and do it anyway
<gpocentek> honnestly, going with firefox is IMO the best solution
<maxamillion> gpocentek: my only issue with that, as j1mc stated, is that if the docs pop up in firefox i think majority of people would ignore them because they now have a browser infront of them and they will proceed to google or otherwise
<j1mc> maxamillion: maybe we could set it up so that firefox launches a special instance w/o the navigation buttons, links toolbar, etc.  ...
<maxamillion> j1mc: oooo, that's an idea
<TheSheep> now we need a xul programmer instead of a C programmer
<maxamillion> lol
<maxamillion> that will be harder to find
<vinze> Wouldn't there be a special mode?
<j1mc> freddy martinez (aka Admiral_Chicago) is also on the mozilla team.  i was thinking that there was a special mode or something.
<j1mc> i'm sure we could at least find out.
<vinze> Or perhaps do some "firefox --new-tab "javascript:popup" blabla
<vinze> Or I guess without the "--new-tab"
<j1mc> i'll check on that... it sounds like a good compromise if we don't need an xul developer (or whatever)
<maxamillion> j1mc: we could make a 'documentation' profile under firefox and have the docs open firefox with that profile using some custom settings
<j1mc> maxamillion: good idea.  again, i'll check into it with freddy.
<maxamillion> okies
<j1mc> :)  yeay!
<maxamillion> brb
<vinze> K
* ranf expected more options from "firefox --help"
<vinze> They're not all I think
<j1mc> moving on to feature considerations, then?
<vinze> Guess so
<j1mc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings (for those who joined late)
<vinze> The Welcome Center
<j1mc> ^^ our agenda
<vinze> O wait
<vinze> Sorry
<vinze> Murrine
<j1mc> did you add that to the agenda, vinze?
<vinze> Erm, yes, think so
<vinze> Mainly because we still didn't use Murrine for Feisty
<j1mc> ok.  what are you thinking?  (btw, we have ~45 minutes left in the meeting)
<vinze> Well... That we did use Murrine for Gutsy :P
<j1mc> ok.  i know that jmak already had some theme ideas for gutsy, so you may want to talk with him early in the process.
<vinze> Well, I suppose he has ideas for themes, but they just need to be implemented
<vinze> I don't like his choices, but I think any Murrine-based theme is better than Clearlooks
<j1mc> it would be good to see what he has in mind.  i think he was pushing for a murrine-based theme, but we just ran out of time last time.
<vinze> Ah OK
<vinze> Then I suppose we'll be able to make it for Gutsy
<j1mc> any other comments on theme stuff?  i'd like to move on to stuff like network manager, games, etc.
<vinze> Let's move on
<j1mc> ok.  network manager.  :)  gnome's one works well in xubuntu's panel, but ... there's interest in removing the gnome libs and using for xubuntu.
<ongardie> noooooooo!
<j1mc> no?
<j1mc> that was an emphatic no.
<ongardie> heh, i think network manager is buggy
<j1mc> somerville32 added it to the agenda ...  perhaps he'd like to say what he had in mind.
<j1mc> somerville32: you there?  or still on the phone?
* somerville32 is on the phone
<ongardie> (http://spuriousinterrupt.org/projects/airconfig should be pretty cool once it's ready, though)
<j1mc> somerville32: what do you need a phone for.  we have irc.  ;-)
* j1mc goes to look at link
<vinze> Well we *do* need WPA support ;)
<vinze> Was that the project from an Xfce dev?
<vinze> Anyway, if that's not ready yet I suppose it'll be more buggy than NM
<ranf> vinze, Brian Tarricone
<ongardie> vinze: yes, Brian Tarricone is writing airconfig
<vinze> K
<ongardie> vinze: good point. at this point, i bet it is buggier than NM
<vinze> How about Wifi-radar?
<vinze> http://wifi-radar.systemimager.org/
<vinze> Though it doesn't look that user-friendly
<j1mc> ongardie: i like how it is an xfce project, but there isn't even a release for it yet.  very bleeding edge.
<Mithrandir> why not just write a gtk-only, xfce NM applet?  It shouldn't be that hard.
<vinze> ongardie thinks it's buggy
<vinze> I don't have that much experience
<ongardie> it's not the front-end that i have a problem with
<j1mc> ongardie: nm-applet hasn't given me any trouble.
<vinze> It just doesn't work for you or something?
<vinze> Because you could be an exception
<ongardie> maybe it's just me and the people i've talked to
<vinze> How many are they?
<ongardie> me, my bro, the entirety of #xfce-dev
<ongardie> and a couple guys from #ubuntu-houston, iirc
<ongardie> but i think a better idea is to search the forums for problems
* vinze searches ubuntuforums
<ongardie> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=hDV&q=networkmanager+problems+site%3Aubuntuforums.org&btnG=Search
<nixternal> someone said my name? :)
<vinze> Only 163 threads
<Mithrandir> ongardie: that seems to just be the suspend/resume problem which we now have a fix for.
<j1mc> nixternal: just referenced you in that you would be available to help freddie and i with docs
<nixternal> roger
<maxamillion> i think wifi-radar would be stellar if it offered some sort of wpa support
<vinze> wifi-radar supports wpa
<maxamillion> vinze: uh, it does?
<vinze> At least, you have a WPA option
* vinze installs wifi-radar
<ongardie> maxamillion: see the web site, 2nd screenshot. there is something about WPA
<vinze> But it doesn't depend on wpasupplicant...
<maxamillion> vinze: right, but click on the WPA option, just asks for what will supply the wpa functionality
<j1mc> vinze: yeah... having to identify what driver to use for wpa isn't so good.
<j1mc> for the end-user, anyway.
<vinze> Ah, that sucks
* maxamillion wonders if we could specify a WPA driver in the package of the program and then make the driver a dependency of the package
<vinze> You need to tell explicitly which driver you'd need
<ongardie> quick question: in xubuntu feisty, what tools are there?
<vinze> Tools?
<maxamillion> the advanced user who wants to use something other than a pre-select will do so if there is a pre select or not
<ongardie> for managing the network connections
<vinze> network-admin
<vinze> And a panel plugin
<ongardie> vinze: gnome's network-admin?
<vinze> Yeah but with gnome dependencies removed
<ongardie> i see
<maxamillion> vinze: what planel plugin?
<ongardie> maxamillion: will one driver work for everyone?
<vinze> "Network Monitor"
<vinze> maxamillion, but that's just seeing if it's active
<ongardie> vinze: "Network Monitor" doesn't let you configure anything though
<ongardie> right
<vinze> No no configuration
<j1mc> i like the idea of using airconfig, but don't think it's ready.  in it's absence, i think it would be best to use nm-applet, and see if someone can remove the gnome-deps.
<maxamillion> ongardie: probably not, but we could pre-select the best supported
<maxamillion> ongardie: and then make a reference to alternatives in the docs
<j1mc> someone == jani  :)  ??
<vinze> maxamillion, best supported, wouldn't that mean "works for about 10%"?
<vinze> I think once Gutsy there we'll still be using network-admin... ;-)
<j1mc> i think it would be worthwhile for us to install airconfig onto our test systems, and report bugs up through the xfce-bugzilla, too.
<maxamillion> vinze: not entirely .... a wpa driver to my knowledge is just software and shouldn't matter what wifi card people have
<vinze> maxamillion, ah, OK
<maxamillion> j1mc: i will work on that with my laptop from work ... hopefully we can help along the airconfig project to be stable asap
<j1mc> cool, maxamillion.  i'll do the same.
* vinze too
<ongardie> we certainly can't depend on airconfig stabilizing and being perfect before gutsy, though
<vinze> No I don't think so too
<j1mc> i think that nm-applet probably our second-best optiont, though.
<maxamillion> ongardie: no, of course not ... this is more of an upstream goal
<vinze> And if someone's to remove gnome deps from NM anyway, I guess it'd be a waste to switch to an alternative for Gutsy+1
<ongardie> so, realistically then, will it be network-admin, NetworkManager, or wifi-radar for gutsy?
<maxamillion> j1mc: but nm-applet is bloated and i think we would get a substantial amount of negative feedback because of its resource intensive nature
<vinze> Yeah and it'd be a lot of work, so I guess network-admin
<maxamillion> ongardie: more likely than not, yes .... they really seem to be the most capable alternatives
<j1mc> maxamillion: maybe, but how many people are connecting via wireless w/ a PII laptop?
<ongardie> i do know of someone that was working on an xfce panel plugin that would be a front-end to NetworkManager
<vinze> That'd be cool
<ongardie> but the xfce devs discouraged him because they all hate networkmanager
<ongardie> lol
<j1mc> i say we table this for now and continue it on the mailing list...
<maxamillion> j1mc: just because they aren't connecting wireless doesn't mean nm-applet isn't running on thier system and eating resources
<maxamillion> ok
<vinze> So... On to games?
<maxamillion> i assume so
<j1mc> we have 20 minutes left... :)
<maxamillion> pySol has my vote!
<vinze> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Feisty/xubuntu-gaming
<vinze> I don't really like that "Shooters" list ;)
<vinze> Shipping Nexuiz just doesn't sound like a good idea :P
<maxamillion> vinze: no no, these were just ideas thrown out on the mailing list
* somerville32 is back.
<maxamillion> wb somerville32
<vinze> Hey Cody
<ongardie> is the idea to create something like gnome-games?
<maxamillion> i think Xjump, pySol, SuperTux, and FrozenBubble would make a solid game set
<maxamillion> ongardie: no, i think its just to include a set of games for xubuntu users to enjoy
<vinze> I think we should go for some Puzzle, Arcade and Board/Card games
<maxamillion> ongardie: just make a meta package called "xubuntu-games" that will pull the agreed upon set of games
<ongardie> maxamillion: unfortunately, supertux-data is 53 megs
<vinze> Too bad
<vinze> Supertux is cool
<ongardie> yeah, i like supertux too :(
<Burgundavia> I would stick with non-fullscreen stuff, from a marketing and branding perspective
<vinze> Agreef
<vinze> *Agreed
<TheSheep> I don't really think the xubuntu's target audience would need games other than the ones they install themselves...
<maxamillion> ongardie: ah, didn't know that
<vinze> Who's Xubuntu's target audience?
<TheSheep> vinze: they guys that come to #xubuntu :)
<TheSheep> and gals
<maxamillion> TheSheep: i think something like pySol would be nice though .... everyone needs a little solitare :)
<vinze> TheSheep,  Oh, no wonder there's no Xubuntu option at ShipIt... :P
<TheSheep> vinze: yes
<vinze> maxamillion, I think so too
<vinze> I recall aisleriot was cool, had loads of card games :P
<vinze> But just Solitaire'll do too
<j1mc> would a meta-package that is not included in the default install work?
* ongardie points out that pysol looks ugly
* vinze checks
<ongardie> gtk 1.x?
<maxamillion> j1mc: it would be included into the install
<maxamillion> ongardie: i believe so, yes ... :/
<vinze> Then I don't think it's an option...
<maxamillion> fair enough
* vinze can't install airdonfig
<vinze> checking for X... no
<vinze> configure: error: X Window system libraries and header files are required
<ongardie> (the latest version of pysol is from 2003)
<vinze> O wait...
<maxamillion> heh ... we could always throw in gtetrinet :P
<vinze> http://linuxappfinder.com/games/cards
<j1mc> if it's ok... maybe we could set up a wiki page like we did with artwork, where people could list the details of each game they'd like to be included, and we could vote.
<j1mc> it's a low priority, imho
<ongardie> j1mc: that sounds like a good plan to me
<vinze> +1
<maxamillion> k
<j1mc> maxamillion: would you like to do that?
<j1mc> or, would someone else like to set it up, at least the initial stuff?
<maxamillion> it just seems like everytime we try to organize people around the idea of the games topic it ends in chaos and cody and i sort through the remains (which is where the current wiki page came from)
<j1mc> oh, sorry maxamillion ...
<j1mc> guess i didn't see/consider the current games spec wiki
<somerville32> Jani made a comment on the lp spec page.
<vinze> *5 minutes for notification-daemon and smb*
<vinze> But who would be removing gnome-games' gnome-deps?
<maxamillion> i dunno ... the whole games idea might just deserve to be trashed, i think we should focus more on smb support and not bother with games .... we don't want to spread our already limited resources (in terms of man-power) too thin
<somerville32> vinze: I would be interested in doing that
<vinze> somerville32, that'd be really awesome
<vinze> Doesn't that solve our problem?
* somerville32 nods.
<ongardie> what's the notification daemon idea?
<vinze> To include it?
* somerville32 nods.
<vinze> Who added it?
* somerville32 raises his hand.
<gpocentek> notification-daemon is already a dep of xubuntu-desktop
<vinze> Is it?
<mr_pouit> ^^
<vinze> It wasn't installed for me
<vinze> But I went with a Herd
<ongardie> gpocentek: it's under Recommends, actually
<somerville32> gpocentek, So you can use libnotify and what not to get those pop-ups?
<gpocentek> ongardie: yes, but installed with a fresh install
<TheSheep> there is also the xfce-notification-daemon
<TheSheep> which doesn;t depend on gconf
<ongardie> TheSheep: is it packaged?
<gpocentek> we use gconf anyway, and don't want duplication
<vinze> I think we should go with the original one
<vinze> As Jani said, the deps are few and it's already packaged and maintained
<TheSheep> vinze: otiginal gnome or original xfce? ;)
<vinze> TheSheep, gnome
<vinze> So will it be moved to "Depends" for Gutsy?
<maxamillion> nothing like an xfce based distro sticking with gnome alternatives when a xfce solution exists ....
<vinze> Well, if it's not packages
<ongardie> i'd like to see notification-daemon-xfce at least packaged
<vinze> And if we already use the gnome deps it has
<gpocentek> ongardie: go ahead, package it
<maxamillion> ongardie: we will get together later about that, i might package it sometime this week
<TheSheep> I think it's not packaged because it din't compile at some point with recent tools
<ongardie> gpocentek: i'd be happy to package that (and the places plugin)
<gpocentek> places-plugin is in NEW already
<mr_pouit> places-lugin is already in new
<mr_pouit> *g*
<ongardie> gpocentek: i just don't know how
<ongardie> what's NEW?
<gpocentek> mr_pouit: you're really slow tonight :p
<maxamillion> ongardie: isn't the places plugin auto-packaged in the xfce-goodies package now?
<ongardie> maxamillion: isn't xfce-goodies just a metapackage?
<vinze> What's the places plugin?
<ongardie> vinze: like gnome's places menu. i'm the author
<maxamillion> ongardie: uhmmm.... actually, it might be now that you mention it
<vinze> Nice
* somerville32 hates the phone.
<vinze> :P
<TheSheep> ongardie: I love you!
<ongardie> TheSheep: haha, <3
<j1mc> 2 minutes to discuss smb shares.  no problem  :)
<vinze> Where do I get it?
<ongardie> vinze: http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/xfce4-places-plugin
<maxamillion> ongardie: yeah, appears to be a meta package
* TheSheep drools
<ongardie> do we really just have 2 minutes left?
<maxamillion> j1mc: we have all day in xubuntu-devel :)
<j1mc> maxamillion: right.  :)
<vinze> ongardie, is it packaged somewhere?
<ongardie> vinze: gpocentek just said it is in NEW, but i don't know what that means
<vinze> Me neither
<ongardie> should we move the meeting #xubuntu-devel?
<maxamillion> yes, i believe so
<ongardie> will anyone be using this channel anyway?
<vinze> Who keeps the logs?
<gpocentek> ongardie: packaged and waiting to be approved by an archive admin
<mr_pouit> in new = needs to be approved by an archive admin
<ongardie> mr_pouit: ty
<ongardie> gpocentek: ty too, heh
<gpocentek> :)
<vinze> Is there noone keeping the logs?
<ongardie> i think we have 2 days until there's another meeting in here. we're probably OK to stay
<somerville32> We can continue to chat here if there isn't a meeting scheduled.
<vinze> O OK
<vinze> Let's stay
<ongardie> vinze: (i log everything personally)
<vinze> Have we agreed on something concerning notification daemon?
<vinze> ongardie, OK
<ongardie> maxamillion: so you're willing to help me with packaging notification-daemon-xfce?
<vinze> I'm still planning on learning packaging, is there any app that has priority that I could get my hands on?
<somerville32> Everything is important :] 
<vinze> Random suggestion?
* somerville32 is still on the stupid phone.
<maxamillion> ongardie: sure
<ongardie> maxamillion: ok, then how can we get it in the repos?
<maxamillion> ongardie: we will have to ask for a sponsor to post it, i will contact jani about that because i think it needs to be in main and only core-devs have access to main
<ongardie> k
<ongardie> moving on?
<vinze> Think so
<vinze> Network Shares
<gpocentek> xfce-n-d won't get into main IMO
<gpocentek> there's no reason to have it along with n-d
<ongardie> why would it need to go in main?
<gpocentek> to be part of xubuntu-desktop it needs to be in main
<ongardie> oh, that's not necessarily my goal
<ongardie> i just think it should be packaged
<maxamillion> ongardie: its not?
<maxamillion> ongardie: oh...
<gpocentek> ok :)
<gpocentek>  /me away, see you
<vinze> What's the reason you want xfce-n-d?
<vinze> Bye
<ongardie> vinze: because 1) someone took the time to write it, and 2) maybe it'll respect xfwm4's margins
<vinze> Doesn't the normal n-d do that?
<maxamillion> ongardie: why not attempt to get it into xubuntu-desktop though? ... if we are going to go through the trouble of packaging it, why not try and make sure someone actually uses it?
* vinze was wondering too
<ongardie> maxamillion: i've never even used it, i can't argue for that now
<ongardie> vinze: shrug
<maxamillion> ahhhh, makes sense
<maxamillion> can't endorse something blindly, i can understand that
* vinze is going
<maxamillion> ongardie: well, we can package it and use it and see if it would be worth our time
<vinze> Laters
<maxamillion> laters vinze
<ongardie> maybe i'm underestimating how hard it'll be to package it, though
<maxamillion> ongardie: packaging isn't generally hard, just time consuming ... but i am not familiar with xfce-n-d so we will have to look into it further, it might end up being a pain
<TheSheep> ongardie: last time I looked it required patching of the makefile
<maxamillion> ah yes ... possible pain
<TheSheep> maxamillion: it's similar to n-d, really, only has the xfce-like settings dialog and looks a little more square
<TheSheep> maxamillion: the n-d requires you to mess with gconf to configure it
<maxamillion> gconf fails at life
<ongardie> haha
<j1mc> hehe
<TheSheep> maxamillion: and makes gconf run in the background
<maxamillion> reminds me too much of ms windows registry
<j1mc> maxamillion: yeah...
<maxamillion> ok, on the smb
<maxamillion> on to*
<TheSheep> if you don't run gaim and n-d, you don't need gconf running in xubuntu, as of today
* j1mc unplugs somerville32's phone.
<maxamillion> lol
<somerville32> j1mc: Cell phone :(
<somerville32> And he has been talking to me for over an hour
<maxamillion> TheSheep: interesting .... if i could only get my jabber portal to work right i could ditch gaim/pidgin all together
* somerville32 snores.
* j1mc removes somerville32's sim card
<j1mc> and battery
<maxamillion> :P
<somerville32> lol
<ongardie> really onto SMB?
<somerville32> k
* maxamillion hopes so
<ongardie> what's the idea with SMB?
<somerville32> We need a browser :] 
<TheSheep> fuse?
<ongardie> the #xfce-dev guys seem to think fuse is the right idea
<TheSheep> why not just mount a fusesmb directory in media by default?
<maxamillion> i would actually like to write a smb plugin for thunar, but i don't think that is going to be something to just be thrown together for the release ... i think it will take some planning
<ongardie> TheSheep: what can you do with a fusesmb directory?
<maxamillion> TheSheep: not a bad idea, and just have the directory populated as smb shares are browsed?
<ongardie> "It works like smbfs, but instead of accessing one share at a time, all computers and workgroups are accessible at once from a single filesystem mount, making network browsing just as easy as it is on Windows."
<j1mc> i wish i had it in front of me, but i know that there were other options other than fusesmb that were mentioned during ubuntu open week.
<ongardie> has anyone here used fusesmb?
<maxamillion> i have
* j1mc has
<maxamillion> it wasn't entirely a plesant experience
* j1mc agrees
<ongardie> what was the issue?
<maxamillion> but i think we could remedy that with a front end or otherwise
<maxamillion> ongardie: just not very user friendly
<j1mc> also, it may have been how i configured samba, but accessing password protected smb shares wasn't possible through fusesmb.
<ongardie> i wonder why fusesmb hasn't had a release for the last year
<maxamillion> j1mc: that was the issue i was having as well
<j1mc> i'm not a total expert, so don't take that as law or anything, though.
<maxamillion> j1mc: i could access the smb share i made on a spare machine in the office to test it, but i couldn't access the password protected share on the production server
<maxamillion> ongardie: that'a good question
<j1mc> what about gvfs?
<j1mc> don't know much about it, but it was mentioned during ubuntu open week.
<ongardie> is SMB really the only issue? maybe we should go one step higher and have a front-end to manage any fuse filesystem?
<j1mc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekfeisty/xubuntu  (search for gvfs)
<maxamillion> ongardie: it could be an interesting project
* j1mc wonders how somerville32 is able to talk on his cell phone when it has no battery or sim card.
<ongardie> would gvfs require applications to do anything?
<TheSheep> ongardie: isn't it just an alternative to gnome-vfs
<ongardie> TheSheep: this is the first i've heard of it, i'm reading a bit now
<maxamillion> TheSheep: i think it is going to replace gnome-vfs ... it appears it was a topic of conversation at a recent gnome-con
<ongardie> but if we need to modify all applications, there's no f'in way
<j1mc> ongardie: hehe
<ongardie> (and then there's openoffice, etc)
<j1mc> i don't know much about it, either.
<maxamillion> TheSheep: errr... actually, it will be talked about at guadec in 3 weeks
<maxamillion> TheSheep: http://guadec.org/node/520
<j1mc> it got mentioned by at least two people during ubuntu open week - even in refernce to xubuntu, so it would be worth researching.
<maxamillion> it appears there would be needed modification per application, at least that is the impression i am getting from it all
<j1mc> http://www.nabble.com/gnomevfs-homepage-t3248187.html  hehe
<j1mc> "and noticed that
<j1mc> gnomevfs has no homepage. I belive it should have atleas a simple one..."
<maxamillion> lol
<ongardie> what i like about fuse: 1) i'm assuming it's stable by now, 2) the apps don't need to know about it, 3) FUSE works with tons of "filesystems"
<TheSheep> it would be nice to have a simple program or panel plugin that would take an url and mount it as apropriate fuse filesystem :)
<mjg59> The model is that gvfs will functionally replace gnome-vfs and continue to support functionality that's difficult with pure posix (like async i/o). There'll be a fuse module layered on top of it in order to allow non-gvfs aware applications to use the same filenames.
<TheSheep> maxamillion: so it's fuse anyways
<j1mc> pyneighborhood?
<j1mc> mjg59: thanks...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council
<TheSheep> j1mc: ah, right
<mjg59> The problem with purely using fuse is that you have difficulty dealing with certain filesystem types (like network filesystems)
<ongardie> mjg59: wasn't fuse largely designed for network filesystems?
<mjg59> ongardie: Yes, it's fine from the filesystem perspective, but it's difficult from a usable application perspective
<TheSheep> ongardie: but the apps will not know it's a network filesystem, and, for example, generate thumbnails for moves
<TheSheep> movies
<TheSheep> ongardie: which isn't such a good idea imho...
* somerville32 tries to focus as he listens to this person he doesn't even know ramble on about his life story and all his problems. :(
<ongardie> TheSheep: perhaps we can modify Thunar to not do that
* TheSheep rolls eyes
<mjg59> You don't want an application to block just because you're having to suck this file in from the network
<TheSheep> somerville32: put the phone in a fish tank :)
<mjg59> So you need some way of doing async i/o
<ongardie> mjg59: i'll have to read more about that
<ongardie> in any case, gvfs doesn't sound like its ready
<j1mc> all, i have to go...  :(
<ranf> bye j1mc
<maxamillion> laters j1mc
<j1mc> thanks for all of your help.  i'll be in touch soon.
<ongardie> j1mc: peace
<ongardie> doh!
<maxamillion> i think the real question is, do we really want to put together a large scale development project using fuse if in the end it has i/o issues anyways and becomes un-usable?
* somerville32 is now free.
<ongardie> maxamillion: no, i wouldn't think so
<TheSheep> maxamillion: large scale?
<ongardie> maxamillion: the project could be fairly contained, but I/O issues would be a showstopper
<TheSheep> we need a networked filesystem with discovery, it doesn't have to be samba, but people come and ask "how do I open network?"
<TheSheep> it could as well be zeroconf+scp :)
<maxamillion> TheSheep: well ... i would think making something capable of mounting many different filesystems would be dificult, but then again i am not entirely familiar with all of fuse's capabilities
<TheSheep> there is an avahi browser
<TheSheep> maxamillion: fuse gives you a standard interface to all of them, basically
<maxamillion> TheSheep: oh ... ok
<maxamillion> TheSheep: yeah, then i guess that wouldn't be too terribly hard
<maxamillion> TheSheep: are you familiar with the "mount devices" plugin for xfce?
<ongardie> maxamillion: doesn't it require you modify /etc/fstab?
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* maxamillion would prefer a thunar plugin but can't find docs on the API
(ongardie/#ubuntu-meeting) i think we're probably capable of writing a FUSE front-end. as maxamillion was saying, though, it wouldn't be worth it if there are I/O issues
<ongardie> maxamillion: i wonder if thunar plugins use thunarx: http://www.xfce.org/documentation/4.4/api/thunarx/
<maxamillion> yeah ... i think we would need to first look into if the i/o issues would really create a problem and if so, is there any way to get around the problems
<TheSheep> ongardie: once gvfs is in place, we can just replace it
<maxamillion> ongardie: hmmm...
<maxamillion> TheSheep: true
<TheSheep> on still use fuse+gvfs for the other applications
<maxamillion> brb
<ongardie> this is starting to sound like a plan
<ongardie> maxamillion: yes, at least the media tags plugin uses thunarx
<ongardie> mjg59: do you know of any pages with information about the async I/O stuff?
<mjg59> http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/gnome-vfs/gnome-vfs-gnome-vfs-module-callback.html covers the API
<ongardie> mjg59: that's not quite what i was looking for. i meant conceptually
<maxamillion> ongardie: this really sounds like something i would be interested in helping with development if it is decided to be done, but for now i need to go ... i will probably be back later
<ongardie> we're losing a lot of people
<maxamillion> :(
<maxamillion> well ... we are an hour past the meeting time
<ongardie> should we just continue this on the mailing list?
<maxamillion> probably should
<mjg59> ongardie: I'm not really sure what you mean
<maxamillion> i need to go, have to go take care of some stuff ... i am about to move in 5 days
<maxamillion> laters
<ongardie> mjg59: "You don't want an application to block just because you're having to suck this file in from the network"
<ongardie> with async I/O, would the app instead show a progress bar?
<mjg59> ongardie: For instance
<ongardie> mjg59: is it a problem even with small files?
<mjg59> It really depends on the nature of the application and the filesystem
<ongardie> i see
<somerville32> Interesting.
<ongardie> i don't know who is left here, but shall we conclude?
<ongardie> somerville32: yes?
<somerville32> What is the consensus?
<TheSheep> um...
<ongardie> to continue the discussion on the mailing list, i think
<ongardie> i'd like to actually use FUSE for a while to get a feel for the issues mjg59 was referring to
<ongardie> but between maxamillion and i (and did i see some interest from TheSheep?), we might want to write a FUSE front-end
<ongardie> (and i think it'd be quite welcome in the xfce goodies)
<ongardie> is this the end?
<TheSheep> somerville32: ?
<somerville32> This is only the beginning, my friends ;] 
<ongardie> heh
<ongardie> peace
<TheSheep> somerville32: comrades
<somerville32> Yes.
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-12
<bogey-> @schedule est
<ubottu> bogey-: Schedule for EST: 14 May 01:00: Platform Team | 14 May 16:00: Server Team | 15 May 08:00: Desktop Team | 21 May 01:00: Platform Team | 21 May 12:00: LoCo Council | 21 May 16:00: Server Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-13
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 May 12:30 UTC: Forum Council | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<davmor2> hello everybody :)
<pedro_> hey hey !
<bdmurray> hi
<stgraber> hello
<heno> hey all
<heno> we seem to have no announcement and no agenda, but we have participants, which is what counts :)
<nand> hi
<davmor2> :)
 * ogasawara waves
<heno> I have two items though: new team member intro and Forums feedback coordinator application
<heno> #startmeeting
<pedro_> sigh no bot...
<stgraber> -ESTILLNOBOT
<heno> topic: New Stable Release QA Engineer
<heno> Steve Beattie starts with Canonical tomorrow and will be joining us at UDS
 * sbeattie waves hello
<bdmurray> yeah!
<stgraber> hi sbeattie
<ogasawara> hi sbeattie
<pedro_> great!
<pedro_> welcome sbeattie :-)
<cgregan> Hello sbeattie
<davmor2> congrats sbeattie
<heno> He will be responsible for SRU test cases/testing and point releases from a QA perspective
<nand> hi!
<heno> hey sbeattie!
<sbeattie> Thanks for the welcome everyone!
<heno> Please give him help and advice over the next few days
<heno> topic: Forums feedback coordinator
<heno> we had an application from Murat Gunes, which looks solid
<heno> Murat, are you here?
<Hobbsee> he's been previously involved in the forum ambassadors stuff, so should be good
<Hobbsee> and no, he's not here
<heno> ok, but yes, it looked good
<Hobbsee> (unless he's changed nicks again)
<pedro_> nice, Murat is a pretty good triager also :-)
<heno> +1 from me
<davmor2> sounds fair enough.  We might want to make him aware of the meetings though :)#
<heno> true :)
<stgraber> +1 from me too, he seems to be exactly what we were looking for :)
<pedro_> yes a +1 from me too
<ogasawara> +1 here too
<jcastro> welcome sbeattie!
<bdmurray> +1 from me
<heno> looks like we have consensus, cool
<jcastro> I've been working with murat, +1, he'll be @ UDS as well
<heno> welcome Murat
<pedro_> speaking of that, heno do you known when the UDS schedule will be up?
<heno> I'll speak with sbeattie later about perhaps taking on the Test image maintainer role, that fits in well wit the update testing
<stgraber> oh, he'll be at FOSSCamp too, rocks
<heno> pedro_: it is meant to be finallised first day of FOSSCamp
<pedro_> heno: ok, thanks you
<stgraber> btw, I have updated the wiki page with some items I would like to discuss at FOSSCamp, I have moved them to a separate category
<heno> pedro_: WIP QA schedule is here http://bioshock.netsplit.com/~scott/schedule/schedule.html?track=qa
 * pedro_ looking
<heno> stgraber: thatnks! I'll have a look
<heno> That leaves the role of "Kernel bug first-response" not spoken for
<heno> btw, I'm referring to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KeyPositions
<davmor2> stgraber: what's the link?
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/UdsPrague
<heno> any other topics today?
<stgraber> think of regenerating you SSH keys :)
<davmor2> :)
<davmor2> heno: is it worth voiping into the QA talks at uds or not?
<heno> davmor2: it can be, but the sound quality is not that great
<davmor2> right.
<heno> it's ok to listen, but difficult to participate
<heno> ok, thanks everyone, that was quick
<heno> #endmeeting
<stgraber> yep, see you all in Prague (for those coming to FOSSCamp)
<davmor2> bye everyone :)
<davmor2> Hope you all have a great time in prague
<pedro_> great, have a good and safe travel everybody
<Keybuk> heno: to point out the obvious, there's no access control on those schedule URLs
<Keybuk> so anyone who knows them can rearrange the entire UDS schedule
<heno> Keybuk: yep, could be interesting :)
<stgraber> I'm not sure #ubuntu-meeting was the best place to give the URL then :)
<heno> security by obscurity ;)
<Keybuk> heno: well, I figure since anyone can ssh into the box anyway ... ;-)
<stgraber> Keybuk: haven't upgraded yet ? :)
<Keybuk> ironically, it was only a few weeks ago that somebody was deriding me for treating ssh keys as disposable pairs, and regularly regenerating them
<Keybuk> I just ran "newkeys" on my machines
<jcastro> Keybuk: I have pretty horrible ssh key habits myself
<jcastro> and I have a friend that does what you do and I routinely poke fun at him
<jcastro> except for today of course. :p
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-14
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Platform Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 May 12:30 UTC: Forum Council | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<james_w> morning all
<asac> hi
<evand> hello
<doko> good morning
<slangasek> morning
<liw> greetings and salutations and wishes of goodwill
<calc> hello
<asac> welcome liw \o/
<james_w> hi liw, great to have you here.
<ArneGoetje> hi
<ogra> *yawn*
<ogra> welcome liw !
<cjwatson> sorry I'm late
 * cjwatson has been up rather too late dealing with world on fire, and so slept in
<cjwatson> ok, so firstly (though I see you already dealt with this), welcome to Lars, who joins us this week from the QA team
 * slangasek applauds
 * asac hugs liw 
<ogra> yay
<cjwatson> Lars joins us with no pre-decided speciality, so we'll likely spend the next week at UDS figuring out what he's doing ;-)
 * doko wonders what can we dump on him?
<cjwatson> thanks to whomever phoned me to wake me up, BTW, assuming that was one of you
<asac> hehe
<evand> welcome liw
<liw> thanks, everyone
<cjwatson> bryce had one agenda item, which I'll deal with first
<cjwatson>  - what will the dates be for the next London sprint?
<bryce> hi all
 * asac listens
<cjwatson> this is still being actively discussed, trying to work around people's holiday requirements, conferences, and the like
<cjwatson> the two most likely weeks at the moment seem to be 4-8 Aug and 18-22 Aug
<cjwatson> although those have holiday conflicts for others
<cjwatson> week beginning 28 July has been mentioned but that would be a problem for asac
<liw> doesn't the first one conflict with Debian's debcamp week (the week preceding Debconf)?
<liw> (don't know if that'd be a problem)
<cjwatson> hm, yes, it appears to, and I'll throw that information into the ring
<cjwatson> there is also a distinct possibility that we'll break down into smaller sprints
<cjwatson> although, currently, the preferred option is to break into two groups, one in the office and one in the hotel across the river
<cjwatson> but still run at the same time
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: why the split? too many people for the office to handle?
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: correct
<cjwatson> last time we were at the limit, this time (with hiring) we'll be over it
<ArneGoetje> I see
<bryce> hehe
<cjwatson> so, the short answer is that I don't have an answer yet, but will tell you as soon as I do; if you have holiday requests or any other date-based information, it's crucial that you let me know as soon as possible so that that can be taken account of
<bryce> 4-8 Aug would be my preference
<cjwatson> e.g. if you're intending to go to debcamp, please book holiday for it now
<cjwatson> (if at all possible)
<evand> I'd like to take a week off in the summer, but my plans are up in the air and I can easily work around whatever date is selected for the sprint.
<cjwatson> I have a week off 13-17 Aug
<liw> I'm not going to debcamp myself, but I was under the assumption some people were interested in that; my own preference is to have the week before the August bank holida in the UK (so that I could stay over for the weekend and go to Cambridge)
<liw> but I'm really fine with any date
<cjwatson> second thing I have: if you haven't already taken action to secure your system after the OpenSSL vulnerability (http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-612-1 et seq, especially http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-612-2), please do so as soon as possible, preferably right after this meeting; I know that some platform team staff were on the list of affected keys
<ArneGoetje> will do
<cjwatson> sorry I couldn't give you advance warning of that, but it was under very strict embargo
<cjwatson> ok, next, I have some quick requests for people to read up on various things before UDS
<cjwatson> (sorry it's late, had wanted to do this earlier in the week but ...)
<cjwatson> 3g-networking and wlan-mesh-networking seem to fall naturally to asac and ogra respectively, I think; please come armed with a rough idea of what the technologies involve and what software changes would be needed in order to support them
<ogra> cjwatson, mesh is requested by intel for cpmc 1.5
<ogra> as well as they asked for tablet support for the gen 2.0 devices (which isnt on our plate yet)
<cjwatson> well, don't tell me now, just be prepared :-)
<ogra> (i'll have a call in 30 min btw)
 * calc got the UDS sickness early to spread to the rest of you ;-)
<cjwatson> ogra: (I'll try to call into that)
<ogra> ok
<bryce> calc: :-{
<calc> some sort of cold like thing
<cjwatson> I have a roundtable booked on profiling tools, which is general collection of information for the benefit of other specs, although I'm particularly interested in any Python profiling experience any of you have
<cjwatson> calc: get well soon (please!)
<ArneGoetje> calc: thanks for the warning, I will prepare myself :)
<calc> cjwatson: i'll be fine, just lots of coughing :)
<liw> cjwatson, profiling for performance, specifically? (wondering about coverage.py relevance)
<cjwatson> I would like a volunteer to evaluate http://www.clonezilla.org/, since that's been suggested as a possible standard system recovery tool for OEMs
<cjwatson> liw: right
<cjwatson> liw: well, perhaps more for memory consumption
<cjwatson> symbolic resolution of objects in the heap, that kind of thing
 * evand figured that would fall on his plate.
<cjwatson> if you're keen, cool, though I've been cautious of your plate getting rapidly filled
<evand> yeah, that's a concern of mine as well.  I'll take it if no one else steps up, though.
<cjwatson> ogra put local content filtering on the list for education, and that involves browser extensions; ogra, if you have candidates, great, otherwise you and/or asac would need to research the field a bit
<ogra> ok, we'll talk about that
<cjwatson> evand: go ahead with the evaluation at least then - we can talk about who ends up with the job itself at UDS
<ogra> i think there are not many ff extensions
<evand> ack'ed
 * asac never looked at content filter stuff
<cjwatson> finally, I would like to get broad consensus on possible changes to how we handle archive components
<cjwatson> this is following on from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-December/002641.html, although I think that straw man has been comprehensively burnt now; everyone, please review that thread so that we don't retread old ground
<cjwatson> the important concepts are roughly informing users about which packages are supported (and by whom) in a more fine-grained and useful way that doesn't necessarily involve moving files around, while still preserving the useful access control properties we have
<doko> will we have all the tools to handle the qa stuff, like MIRs, and such things?
<cjwatson> nothing has been decided yet (and I really mean that; I don't have a pre-determined agenda for that session or anything)
<cjwatson> so "will" is a bit strong
<cjwatson> but I expect that, yes, in order to implement anything different it would have to have all the tools we have now
<cjwatson> perhaps, ideally, with less administrivia
<cjwatson> anyway, that's it from me
<cjwatson> anything else from anyone before we all gather for fosscamp and uds?
<cjwatson> toothpaste carefully packed in hold luggage to satisfy our air security overlords? ;-)
<slangasek> I was going to wear my toothpaste on board
<cjwatson> an innovative option
<liw> I intend to have carry-on luggage only :)
<ArneGoetje> my carry-on baggage only contains my laptop and mp3 player :)
<asac> fwif, my main system died over night ... i hope its the power supply, but cant tell yet how much time i will have to put into this today.
<evand> Just in case someone in here isn't already aware - http://www.seatguru.com + online check in = seat with power outlet
<cjwatson> asac: gotcha, good luck
 * asac looks at his dead system crying :/
 * dholbach hugs asac
<liw> asac, ouch
<cjwatson> oh, I've been asked about performance reviews: I'll be trying to squeeze in some of them UDS week, but undoubtedly not all, so some will be after we get back
<cjwatson> if you have particular in-person / on-the-phone preferences, let me know and I'll try to accommodate
<cjwatson> safe travels to all of you, and I'll see you next week!
<james_w> thanks cjwatson, have a safe journey yourself.
<slangasek> thanks, see y'all soon
<evand> safe travels all, see you in a few hours
<liw> I'll see you all on Sunday, then
<asac> cu tomorrow in prague i guess ;)
<ArneGoetje> thanks, CU in cold Europe ;)
<james_w> cjwatson: are we going to have an in person meeting next week?
<cjwatson> bah, Europe isn't cold, it's just differently warm
<liw> ArneGoetje, it's not cold! it's above freezen temperature!
<asac> ArneGoetje: i would imagine that you'd love to breath fresh air ;)
<cjwatson> james_w: "UDS" ;-)
<james_w> cjwatson: heh :-)
<cjwatson> james_w: but yes, probably a good plan
<james_w> also, are activity reports expected?
<cjwatson> no
<james_w> thanks
<cjwatson> people's activity reports normally just say "UDS" and are uninteresting
<bryce> thanks, cya all
<slangasek> activity: summitted some developers
<ogra> heh
<evand> cjwatson: any idea if we'll get free internet / gym access, or is that something to ask clan when we arrive?
<cjwatson> facilities queries -> clan; I'm not sure I'm afraid
<cjwatson> you can probably ask her now if she's around
<ogra> evand, likely the latter, but usually she cares for that is what experience tells :)
<slangasek> there is doubt about the freeness of the Internet?  ohnoes
<evand> heh
<ArneGoetje> slangasek: hey, it's Europe... ;)
<cjwatson> we'll have free Internet at the event itself, of course
<liw> freeness, shmeeness... as long as there's _access_
<evand> incentive to work late :)
<cjwatson> just a question of whether that extends outside it, or to in the rooms
<liw> I wish 3G roaming wouldn't be so expensive
<ArneGoetje> liw: +1
 * cjwatson goes to get quick breakfast in advance of this classmate call
<asac> liw: does it work at all?
<liw> asac, I haven't roamed, but I'm told by my operator it should work
<stgraber> liw: ~ 10â¬/MB for 3G roaming, so no option for me :)
<liw> stgraber, anything except fixed monthly billing is too much :)
<asac> how much do you pay for fixed 3G in your country?
<stgraber> liw: we don't have fixed rate for mobile internet here :(
<calc> 3G for me is ~ 20USD/mo
<liw> I have a service package which includes that, but if bought separately, it's about 10 e/month, for up to 384 kbit/s
<stgraber> calc: I would love to have that here :)
<ArneGoetje> 16 EUR / month
<calc> but that is not for what they claim as computer access, but for phone, can be done though ;-)
<evand> 30 USD for unlimited data and 500 minutes.  Yay Sprint.
<calc> i think computer access is double that
<asac> calc: phone is a joke ;)
<asac> imho
<ArneGoetje> 16 EUR / month -> unlimited data with HSDPA
<asac> my question was more about real broadband data ;)
<asac> anyway ... i guess i should not distract myself from fixing my system ;)
<stgraber> ArneGoetje: lucky you :) we have full speed HSDPA here but at 10â¬/MB it's not really something you want to try :)
<asac> thanks all
<ArneGoetje> stgraber: yep
<ArneGoetje> stgraber: well, the 16 EUR/month comes with a 2 year contract, of course
<calc> asac: never actually tested it, but with wm6 you can get HSDPA 3G over it to a pc (not sure how it compares to a usb card)
<calc> is the metro station that is next to the hotel Vysehrad?
<ArneGoetje> calc: yep
<calc> ArneGoetje: ah ok
<calc> looks pretty simple to get to it from airport via metro
 * calc forgot to check to see if the wiki already documents this, heh
<stgraber> calc: AFAIK there is no metro station at the airport
<calc> stgraber: bus 100 to zilcin
<calc> stgraber: and the metro passes work on bus and subway
 * calc was there last month
<calc> well in prague in general
<ArneGoetje> calc: zilcin is far away... I thought there is a bus to the metro A line...?
<calc> oh maybe so, i didn't check the bus routes
<dholbach> can you add all the info about Prague to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid/PragueTips ?
<calc> when i was there before i just took zilcin to ceskom... to the novell office
<calc> dholbach: will do
<calc> if someone wants to look up the other bus number feel free, i will document the roundabout way i know of
<dholbach> rock on - it'd be nice to get all that stuff on the google map there
<ArneGoetje> calc: Bus 119: Airport - Metro Line A (DejvickÃ¡)
<ArneGoetje> http://www.myczechrepublic.com/prague/prague-airport-bus.html
<calc> www.mapy.cz is in czech but has nice detailed map of the area
<calc> ArneGoetje: great :)
<stgraber> I'd also be interested in a simple and clear way of getting to the hotel from the airport, instructions on the local bus company website aren't that easy to understand :)
<calc> ok i will write it up for bus 100 and bus 119 directions
<calc> i can't really tell from the subway map which is faster, both require a transfer to Line C
<ArneGoetje> "myCZ warning: Pickpockets at DejvickÃ¡ metro station
<ArneGoetje> Please watch your belongings at the DejvickÃ¡ metro station where pickpockets prey on tourists traveling from/to the airport. Don't get caught in a crowd (e.g. on the stairwell that leads into the station) and know what's happening around and behind you. Keep an eye on your backpack, side pockets and back pockets.
<ArneGoetje> "
<ArneGoetje> calc: well, Line A seems to be the shorter way... :)
<calc> ArneGoetje: yea less stops so probably is faster
<ArneGoetje> calc: there is also a Airport shuttle bus to Holesovice train station, which is on Line C.
<calc> doesn't shuttle bus cost a lot more?
<ArneGoetje> calc: 45KC
<ArneGoetje> calc: see the link I posted... it contains all the information
<calc> ah ok
<slangasek> pickpocket warning: carry mousetraps in your pockets.
<ArneGoetje> slangasek: heh
 * calc is headed to bed, long day tomorrow, heh
<calc> feel free to improve the travel section of the page :)
<calc> including spelling Vsyehrad correctly if you have those keys
<slangasek> VÃ½Å¡ehrad, cut'n'paste :)
<calc> updated it
 * calc gone to bed now
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 May 12:30 UTC: Forum Council | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<mantiena> /query janimo
<auao> boys see my foto here --> http://rapidshare.com/files/113860291/sexy18.jpg.rar.html . if i like you come prive for cyber :D
<emgent> @now rome
<ubottu> emgent: Current time in Europe/Rome: May 14 2008, 16:35:16 - Next meeting: Server Team in 6 hours 24 minutes
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubottu> emgent: Schedule for Europe/Rome: 14 May 23:00: Server Team | 15 May 15:00: Desktop Team | 17 May 14:30: Forum Council | 21 May 08:00: Platform Team | 21 May 19:00: LoCo Council | 21 May 23:00: Server Team
 * ogra looks around
<ogra> sooo
<ogra> i can give a list of the specs on the schedule :)
<ogra> (not all scheduled yet)
<LaserJock> awesome
<ogra> we have a bunch of content filtering on the list this time :)
 * stgraber waves
<ogra> for one willowng
<ogra> and also firefox extensions
<ogra> so thats the edubuntu focus on the tech side i'd say for intrepid ...
<ogra> ther is also a gui for edubuntu-menus :)
<ogra> as well as the slightly more classmate specific mesh networking
<ogra> (but i'm sure others will benefit here)
<ogra> as a personal interest i have USB install images on the schedule as well
<ogra> and a bunch of resource reduction specs for my general platform work
<LaserJock> is there going to be an app review?
<ogra> i talked to moquist today who is pondering to take over moodle in debian !
<LaserJock> seems like with the restructuring we may want to have a look at what we ship and what we want to ship
<ogra> right, i assume thats on RichEd's list
<ogra> i havent seen any non tech edu specs yet
<ogra> (where i expect something like app selection to sit, with a hook to the g-a-i data)
<juliux> hi
<ogra> thats about it from my side
<ogra> cant say much yet about the outcome :)
<LaserJock> hmm, no RichEd?
<juliux> ogra, is there a howto what an edubuntu/ltsp user has to do with the the new ssh keys?
<ogra> juliux, i just mailed edubuntu-users
<ogra> to populate the client filesystem with new ssh keys use:
<ogra> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<ogra> and then re-roll the image with:
<ogra> sudo ltsp-update-image
<ogra> the new keys will be used after the next reboot of your clients.
<ogra> feel free to put it anywhere
<juliux> ogra, thxs
<juliux> i was asking for linuxtag if somebody ask us;)
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2008-May/004052.html
<ogra> for reference
<juliux> thxs
<RichEd> am here as well :)
<RoAkSoAx> @now
<ubottu> RoAkSoAx: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 14 2008, 20:33:21 - Next meeting: Server Team in 26 minutes
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 May 12:30 UTC: Forum Council | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 17 May 12:30 UTC: Forum Council | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 22 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-15
<_ZeuZ_> Guys I've developed a small QoS script for ISPs that I think could be useful if it would be included into ubuntu-server
<_ZeuZ_> I know it's not reunion time still, but wanted to give ya the yell
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 May 12:30 UTC: Forum Council | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 22 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 May 12:30 UTC: Forum Council | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 22 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 28 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team
<RoAkSoAx> @schedule | lima
<ubottu> RoAkSoAx: Error: Unknown timezone: | lima - Full list: http://jussi01.com/web/timezones.html
<RoAkSoAx> @schedule lima
<ubottu> RoAkSoAx: Schedule for America/Lima: 17 May 07:30: Forum Council | 21 May 01:00: Platform Team | 21 May 12:00: LoCo Council | 21 May 16:00: Server Team | 22 May 08:00: Desktop Team | 28 May 01:00: Platform Team
<nickellery> @schedule vancouver
<ubottu> nickellery: Schedule for America/Vancouver: 17 May 05:30: Forum Council | 20 May 23:00: Platform Team | 21 May 10:00: LoCo Council | 21 May 14:00: Server Team | 22 May 06:00: Desktop Team | 27 May 23:00: Platform Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-17
 * Rafik is away: TrÃ¨s afk... j'crois que j'suis en train de rÃ©viser
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Forum Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 22 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 28 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 22 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 28 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 28 May 17:00 UTC: Launchpad users meeting
<PmDematagoda> hey matthew
<forumsmatthew> hey. I presume I missed the FC meeting
<forumsmatthew> life got in the way
<PmDematagoda> lol not at all
<PmDematagoda> bapoumba was here since 12
<PmDematagoda> and according to her
<PmDematagoda> it never happened
<forumsmatthew> lol
<PmDematagoda> cant imagine
<forumsmatthew> I guess life got in the way of all five of us
<PmDematagoda> lol
<PmDematagoda> I was pming jdong a while back
<PmDematagoda> no reply yet
<forumsmatthew> okay, I'll talk to the other FC members via the mailing list and we will figure out what is going on and what to do
<PmDematagoda> ok, see you later matthew
<forumsmatthew> CU
<Nafallo> @now
<ubottu> Nafallo: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 17 2008, 14:27:58 - Next meeting: Platform Team in 3 days
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-18
<Rafik> @now
<ubottu> Rafik: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 18 2008, 08:37:21 - Next meeting: Platform Team in 2 days
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-11
 * zaafouri` is away (brb =))
 * zaafouri is away (brb =))
 * zaafouri is away (brb =))
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-12
<KhaaL> just to make sure, the meeting will begin in 1 hour 45 minutes?
<ianto> KhaaL: Yeah :)
<KhaaL> hey there man :]
<ianto> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=05&day=12&year=2009&hour=10&min=0&sec=0&p1=0  That is when it will start, find your nearest city :)
<KhaaL> oh, i did check that out... i just need to double and triple check in order to minimize Mr Murphys influence
<KhaaL> (that is, murphys law)
<ianto> Yeah I had a general guess as to what it meant ;)
<amachu> persia: hi
<persia> Hey.  20 minutes, right?
<amachu> persia: yes..
<amachu> just pinged
<elky> persia, hai
<amachu> persia: elky Belutz lifeless Hi
<ianto> Hello to all
<persia> elky, Yeh
<elky> amachu, re-hi amachu
<elky> i might be distracted, there's an influx of naughty people in the irc channels at the moment
<KhaaL> Greetings!
<pyc> howdy all and to the oceana board :)
<amachu> Belutz: lifeless: you both are there?
<dpm> hi all
<amachu> zakame and theMuso din't turn out
<TheMuso> amachu: Hi
<lifeless> h
<lifeless> i
<amachu> TheMuso: Hey.. lost you
<amachu> so we begin now
<amachu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<amachu> lifeless: Hi
<TheMuso> We have one applicant, who doesn't appear to be here.
<lifeless> 6 on the wiki page
<TheMuso> oh sorry, misread
<KhaaL> ianto ? he was here just a sec ago
<lifeless> khan_coltech is not here
<amachu> khanh_coltech: is not here
<KhaaL> nvm then =)
<amachu> pyc: Hi
<ianto> KhaaL: I still am ;)
<pyc> amchu hello :)
<amachu> Please go ahead
<pyc> who should go first
<TheMuso> pyc: yourself.
<pyc> hi, my name Loell Anthony Erecre
<pyc> 27 years of age
<pyc> currently employed at a marine services firm
<pyc> i started using linux way back in 2003 and then used ubuntu in early 2005
<pyc> i then joined ubuntuforums.org
<pyc> this is where my contribution is mostly in
<pyc> supporting users
<pyc> by 2007, the Ubuntu philippine team requested that htier forum be hosted at ubuntuforums
<pyc> so they chosed me as one of their moderators
<pyc> from then on i managed the philippine loco forum
<pyc> not only do i moderate, i also see to it that the philippine users recieved the quickest tech support
<pyc> as i can. :)
<pyc> i have been packaging gyachi a yahoo messaging client since 2006
<pyc> made a PPA for its users to download
<pyc> also made a third party web application, intefacing launchpad, for PPA search
<pyc> the difference from of launchpad is users can see what packages other users searches
<lifeless> to the other applicants tonight: please type up your descriptions in advance so you can copy paste
<ianto> lifeless: noted!
<pyc> i'm also involved in testing, i only manage to report only a few bugs though, since dapper :)
<pyc> should i just copy paste my wiki then?
<persia> No, we can see your wiki :)
<pyc> ok :)
<amachu> pyc: are there people here to support you?
<Knightlust> yey for pyc!
<pyc> heh ;)
<lifeless> http://ppa-search.appspot.com/search?search_key_word=dmraid crashes ?
<Belutz> amachu, i'm here
<pyc> nope lifeless, its just launchpad was slow at responding ;)
<persia> pyc, Have you taken any steps to get Gyachi available in the regular repositories?
<pyc> persia: there is currently an effort in debian iirc
<pyc> what else should i say, basically its all in the wiki
<amachu> Knightlust: are you here for pyc
<Knightlust> amachu: yes i am
<pyc> and oh, i have also assited ubuntu cafe onwers in the philippines
<amachu> Knightlust: say some words about pyc
<Belutz> pyc, what offline activies that you do for ubuntu-ph?
<pyc> Belutz: none really special
<pyc> i mean i met ubuntu users in my locality
<Knightlust> pyc's great in the forums
<pyc> but haven't had the time to organize
<pyc> that's one of my future goals
<Belutz> pyc, please do that :)
<pyc> yep, :)
<pyc> i also do translations
<amachu> elky: persia: lifeless: TheMuso: Belutz: lets take up voting
<Belutz> +1 for me if he keeps his promise to do more offline activities
<persia> There's a bunch of stuff, over a long period of time, but there's something missing for me.  I'm having trouble defining exactly what.
<lifeless> me too
<pyc> hmm
 * TheMuso is not sure either./
<elky> i'm along the same lines as persia. there's a scattering of most things, but it's hard for me to see the impact.
<pyc> by impact you mean, in my locality?
<pyc> should i gather more supporters
<elky> no, overall.
<persia> I think I'd like to see either a focus on something that shows a *lot* of stuff in that area, or more general support from some group (e.g. ubuntu-ph or ubuntu-forums, or ...).
<amachu> pyc probaly created his own page at wiki, april last week, though he has been contributing for quite some time
<amachu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/loell?action=info
<pyc> ubuntu-ph is canonical's right?
<persia> pyc, I don't think so, although canonical may be hosting the domain.
<elky> nope, it's still on smurf's system
<pyc> in defence i could not participate more particiapation with the site as canonical has not yet grant our request
<elky> pyc, have you submitted a request to rt@ubuntu.com?
<Knightlust> elky: yes we have
<Knightlust> https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=4530
<lifeless> so
<lifeless> I think your develop activity is good
<lifeless> the ppa search is nifty; though I'd never heard of it
<pyc> has, my tech support in the forum not been enough?
<pyc> lifeless: its a third party tool, its got hundreds of visitors a day
<lifeless> pyc: I can see that its getting used, like I say its nifty but I hadn't heard of it :)
<pyc> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/where-to-search-ubuntu-personal-package-archives-ppa.html
<pyc> could you also look at how i answer in the forums?
<pyc> surely i don't have 10,000 post like laroza
<persia> pyc, I'm not sure it's accurate to say your forum activity isn't enough (3 posts/day for a few years is considerable), but more that there's no expression of support from others active in the same area saying you're a core part of the team.
<elky> lifeless, i think what we're missing is the wider community impact. the stuff he's done would probably have more substantial if it was actually having an impact outside the select group who know of it
<elky> s/have more/be more/
<pyc> also, i'm not an irce person, i could expressmyself that fully
<pyc> irc person so, see the lag at the question to that of my answers? yeah that shows too?
<persia> elky, I'd be just as happy with "key core person for established subgroup" as "significant contributor for everyone", I'm just not quite seeing either.
<lifeless> the forums are hard for me to guage
<pyc> could i gather more user testimonial from the philippine team
<elky> persia, yep
<persia> Yeah.  Let's do it that way.  Get some more testimonials, focusing on some of the areas where you're most active, and come back.
<elky> pyc, i think that might be the best course of action
<lifeless> pros: you have a lot of :> on your forums summary, and you have been consistently active. Thats something we look for. cons: while you're packaging stuff to help your region, you don't seem engaged with getting it widely available e.g. through debian
<pyc> its availabe too, in the upstream website
<lifeless> ppa-search is also a little odd, as I can't see how to get the source, but its presumably not a revenue stream for you as it has no adverts that I coul see
<pyc> do i need to push it in debian myself? if i have my hands tied with testing?
<pyc> with the project
<lifeless> you don't have to do anything; I'm giving you my feedback on what I see
<persia> pyc, The request isn't that you do that, it's that without having done that, it's hard to count the development work as contributions to Ubuntu.
<pyc> true
<lifeless> I think you're doing a bunch of useful interesting stuff; helping on the forums is great, packaging is great, etc. But it needs a little more follow through for it to be done
<persia> So, there's lots of stuff you might do, and perhaps only documentation would be enough, but we're looking for evidence of more signficant contribution.
<pyc> though could make the developer email the board as testimonial?
<pyc> could i?
<lifeless> e.g. I had a dmraid bug in my new desktop. If I stopped when it worked for me, noone else would benefit.
<persia> pyc, You could, but putting it on your wiki would be more useful.
<persia> Also, as much as I think it's interesting to explore the reasons for this decision, I also think we're 41 minutes into the meeting, and ought consider the next candidate.
<amachu> pyc: would like to know about your involvement with philippine loco..
<elky> do we have other people waiting?
<ziroday> yep
<amachu> elky: we do
<pyc> ok
<ianto> Yeah :)
<KhaaL> aye
<amachu> Knightlust: I hope you are the Team Contact of the LoCo
<Knightlust> amachu: I am now
<amachu> Knightlust: you had mentioned really great and just on the forums?
<amachu> in your endorsement for pyc, what do you mean by it
<Knightlust> what can I say, he's great on the forums, and his user-support for the team's speaks for itself.
<amachu> Knightlust: being the contact person would like to know from you his other contributions too, if any in your opinion
<elky> this has been 45 minutes on the one person, can we please move on?
<pyc> should i be preparing for next meeting then?
<amachu> elky: yes..
<pyc> ok
<TheMuso> +0. I agree with persia, lifeless and elky.
<elky> pyc, that'd be great.
<amachu> I would give +1, but feel something is missing that binds all his contributions
<lifeless> duct tape
<persia> amachu, That's a good way to phrase it.
<elky> lifeless, i think sabdfl requested we not do that to the community members any more.
<lifeless> elky: awww
<amachu> pyc: may be your physical involvement with community, I feel..
<amachu> thats what I was expecting Knightlust, whether you have been doing something more than that in forums
<lifeless> so, I have an hour slotted for this
<elky> ziroday's turn
<ziroday> Hi, I'm Nick and I've been using Ubuntu since Dapper and studying in Singapore. As mentioned on my wikipage (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NickHS) I'm a brainstorm moderator and work closely with my LoCo spreading Ubuntu as well as a couple of other bits and bobs.
<ziroday> elky: thanks
<amachu> elky: so we do not have 51% for loell
<persia> amachu, Right.
<elky> amachu, sadly not at this time.
<amachu> pyc: Keep up the good work. Best wishes for next time
<amachu> ziroday: go ahead
<lifeless> ziroday: +1
<ziroday> amachu: do you want me to repaste what I just said?
<amachu> i noticed
<ziroday> lifeless: woah, thanks :)
<amachu> please continue
<ziroday> sure, well the wikipage has most of it, brainstorm moderator, involved heavily with my loco, ubuntu terminal and some irc support
<ziroday> should I get the people here to support me?
<elky> i'm willing to give ziroday a big +1 from the outset. he's been a good force within the singapore local team with events at his uni including but not limited to software freedom day.
<persia> ziroday, If you have people who haven't already written testimonials on your page, go ahead.
<ziroday> elky: thanks
<ziroday> persia: sure
<hyperair> ziroday++
<hyperair> he provides awesome support for ubuntu on irc.
<persia> ziroday, You seem to do a fair bit with brainstorm and #ubuntu, but less so with Answers.  Any specific reasons for that?
<hyperair> not just in #ubuntu-sg, but in #ubuntu, as well as many other loco channels.
<ziroday> persia: I've never been very fond of ubuntuforums or answers, as I feel the approach is too impersonal
<elky> he also keeps in touch with the other surrounding asian teams too
 * GunbladeIV already wrote something on ziroday's wiki, but +1 from me as he is a big influence in ubuntu-sg loco
<ziroday> persia: and I loved the brainstorm philosophy and being a new project it was a nice change
<Belutz> ziroday, what would you do with your ubuntu membership if you're approved?
<wickedpuppy> as a loco contact for Singapore team , I would also like to second elky in saying ziroday has been one of our most consistent and important members for our team.
<ziroday> Belutz: besides scream around the house :)? I would most definitely try to get more ubuntu terminals in schools and organizations, many times I'm asked about my affiliation with ubuntu/canonical and if there is anything official
<amachu> ziroday: links in "Contributions to Ubuntu" section of your wiki would make things easier
<persia> ziroday, Also, you seem to be a contributor of solutions to brainstorm.  How many of those become bugs for implementation?
<ziroday> amachu: apologies, anything you are looking for in  particular?
<amachu> "Played a role in the recent Ubuntu Live! talk at the National University of Singapore" - is generic
<amachu> What role you played, would help understanding better..
<ziroday> persia: unfortunately very few, its one of the things I would like to fix in brainstorm as the leap from idea to implementation, however for my pet few ideas I do keep a close watch on them
<ziroday> persia: i.e. slideshow on  the installer and plymouth amongst others
<persia> On the ideas, or on bugs stemming from the ideas?
<Belutz> ziroday, how active is ubuntu-sg loco?
<ziroday> persia: keeping the ideas updated with new information, so yes that would include linking to the bug report
<persia> I'm satisfied.  +1 from me.
<ziroday> amachu: sure, I was there as tech support as well as helping users get ubuntu on there thumbdrives, as usual it didn't run smoothly
<ziroday> Belutz: not as active as I would of liked it to be, we ran for approved status ~8 months ago and are still working towards that goal
<TheMuso> +1 also. Great work.
<wickedpuppy> Belutz, we are active seasonally. we have had SFD and representation in LUGS(Linux User Group of Singapore) for intra distro events and general Opensource events
<DaveCo> sorry, i am late. i am here in support of ziroday
<ziroday> TheMuso: persia thanks!
<ianto> Just a quick question, can normal people instead of Ubuntu members give testimonials as well?
<DaveCo> ziroday has helped me (i am a new ubuntu user) with many things, from installing on tricky hardware, to trouble shooting graphics problems. Also, he is nearly allways on IRC, and seems to always find time to help me with Ubuntu, no matter how small the problem. He has not just solve the problem for me, but he has also shown me what he was doing in order for me gain a better knowledge of Ubuntu
<hyperair> if ziroday becomes an ubuntu member, he'll be ubuntu-sg's first.
<hyperair> so i'd reckon that yes, normal people can give testimonials.
<ianto> hyperair: Thanks for the response
<hyperair> np.
<Belutz> +1 from me
<amachu> Please update the wiki, for me to give +1
<amachu> :-)
<ziroday> amachu: sure, is there anything you're looking for in particular? I'll add pics and better descriptions to the loco events
<Belutz> ziroday, congratulations :)
<amachu> ziroday: that would do good..
<Belutz> ziroday, more offline events are good :)
<ziroday> Belutz: yep
<amachu> so Belutz, persia, elky, persia, lifeless all +1 for ziroday?
<elky> yep
<Belutz> amachu, yup
<GunbladeIV> w0ot w0ot ziroday
<persia> indeed.
<amachu> Welcome ziroday!
<ziroday> amachu: thanks!
<ziroday> and thanks to the board members
<amachu> KhaaL: your turn, and please go ahead..
<KhaaL> amachu, thank you
<Belutz> ziroday, hope ubuntu-sg can work together with ubuntu-id and ubuntu-my :)
<KhaaL> Hello all. I don't know if me coming here is a waste of your time since I have no established ubuntu member to speak for me and most of my work has been unrecorded, but I'll give it a shot... beware of incoming text!
<ziroday> Belutz: definitely, we work somewhat with -my currently, but that's probably a discussion better suited for #ubuntu-locoteams
<KhaaL> First some background... I started with linux as early as RH 6.2 which I got installed thanks to my first linux book by John Maddog Hall (I think). All was good until my external modem got fried by a lightning and I had to fall back to a winmodem, which forced me back to windows for a while. At that time I studied A+ certification by my own, studied electronics in the swedish equivalent of high school and I even worked part-time as a IT techie
<lifeless> amachu: I have to go; sorry.
<Belutz> ziroday, great :)
<KhaaL> Today however I neither work in IT field nor do I use RH.I've used ubuntu since 3 years and I'm finishing my social work studies in 3 weeks and I get in contact with a lot of people and organizations that work on a minimal budget - even limited hardware, where the difference between LXDE and XFCE is HUGE.
<KhaaL> And this is what I do mostly, I work on the field and engage people in the ubuntu mentality. Let them try it out with no strings, and with my free support if something goes haywire. I've also written an article that explains the mentality behind FOSS and ubuntu (in swedish) where I hand out to people if they want to gain a deeper understanding, and so far I've managed to get four people this year to use it full time (which has been tricky, eve
<amachu> lifeless: ok. thanks for participating..
<amachu> RH?
<amachu> Redhat?
<KhaaL> exactly :-)
<KhaaL> Besides that, I do online contributions aswell. I do bugreports and follow them through. I engage in discussions and give support in ubuntu forums. I am engaged in brainstorm when I think of improvement for something. And when I see a wiki page that needs correction/improvement, I do that. I belive in ubuntu and FOSS because I think a contribution there is a contribution to everyone. its philantropy, but on a digital level.
<Belutz> KhaaL, are you involved in any LoCo?
<KhaaL> Belutz, no I have not
<Belutz> KhaaL, this might be a dumb question, but, where are you from? Swedish nationality?
<amachu> KhaaL: +0 form me this time.. appear you have started doing good.. but need more..
<persia> KhaaL, I think you're on entirely the right track, but have a bit farther to go before you get there.  Whether you end up doing lots more in testing, development, advocacy, documentation, or what not is up to you :)
<KhaaL> Belutz, well i'm iraqi originally, but born in kuwait, and have lived in sweden since -92
<elky> i agree with amachu. i strongly advise getting into your loco crowd, they'll help you along heaps.
<Belutz> yes, involvement in a LoCo would gain a plus from me
<TheMuso> Agreed. You are on the right track, but probably need a bit more to show that you are making a continued and sustained contribution. +0
<amachu> Belutz: TheMuso: your comments?
<Belutz> KhaaL, +0 from me this time
<amachu> KhaaL: Best wishes for the future
<KhaaL> I understand, thank you for your time.
<amachu> dpm: so its your turn now..
<persia> We hope to see you back in a couple months.
<dpm> amachu, thanks
<dpm> My name is David Planella
<dpm> I started using Ubuntu in the Hoary release
<dpm> Back then my main contributions were in the forums and in bug reporting
<dpm> After a while I started getting more and more involved in Ubuntu translations
<dpm> This continued involvement lead me to take the responsibility of coordinating the Catalan Translation team (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCatalanTranslators), part of the Catalan Loco
<dpm> This task involves documenting and keeping up to date the localized information on the translation process in the wiki, the assignment of tasks and appointment of new members in the team.
<dpm> Also forwarding any relevant information from the general ubuntu-translators list to our Catalan translators.
<dpm> This hasn't stopped me from doing translation work though. I still translate Ubuntu packages and I'm involved with other upstream translation teams (GNOME, Debian, OO.o) in order to ensure a smooth workflow and communication
<dpm> I also participate regularly in the discussions on the ubuntu-translators list. As an example of my contributions, I created the Intrepid translation issues page as a summary to keep track of the most relevant localization issues in that release https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu/IntrepidTranslationIssues.
<dpm> This lead other community members to build upon this initiative and continue extending it for the next release https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu/JauntyTranslationIssues
<dpm> I recently held an OpenWeek session which I've just realised is not yet on my wiki page -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekJaunty/DemythifyingLaunchpadTranslations
<elky> +1
<TheMuso> 8/c
<TheMuso> woops
<dpm> I have also quite recently joined the Community team at Canonical as the Ubuntu Translations Coordinator, where
<dpm> I will be helping our translations community grow and I'll be working with translation teams to build best practices around translations
<dpm> With that in mind, I am currently gathering feedback from the translations community though a survey https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2009-May/002477.html
<dpm> The UDS will also be a great opportunity to meet other translators and hear what they have to say. This time we'll have a solid representation on translations there -> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/community-a/
<dpm> that was the introduction
<persia> +1 from me.  Good history in translations, excellent testimonials.  Nice work with answers.
<amachu> the contributions are clear +1 from me..
<amachu> whats your e-mail id?
<TheMuso> +1 as well. Great work!
<amachu> is it possible to get at ubuntu dot com without becoming member?
<amachu> persia: elky: others: any comments?
<elky> nope
<persia> I think the email address was overly anticipatory, but I'm standing by my earlier +1/
<Belutz> +1 from me
<amachu> persia: i understood..
<amachu> dpm: your comments?
<franki^> hi :)
<amachu> dpm: are you there?
<ianto> franki^: Hi, in just a moment, its someone else's turn before me ;)
<dpm> amachu: yes, I'm just slow in typing
<franki^> ooh, sorry if i interrupted
<amachu> dpm: Welcoming you and keep rocking...
<dpm> Thank you very much to the board for the positive vote!
<amachu> ianto: your turn now
<dpm> and for your time, I'm really looking forward to keep translations rocking
<Belutz> dpm, congratulations :)
<ianto> Hello my name is Christopher Swift and I am from Wales (I can't attend the EMEA board tonight). I am currently 17 years of age and I have been involved in Ubuntu since 2006 (Dapper).
<ianto> I have actively been involved in the UK LoCo over the past year attending events such as the Global Bugjam (Feb '09) in London and helping in part to transcribe the Ubuntu-UK podcast, I wrote an article in February regarding the uupc and how to transcribe for it (http://ubuntu-uk.org/bugjam09/). I have also spent some time on packaging and training to become a MOTU (one of my dreams after I finalise Ubuntu-Cym) as you can see some of the packages that I hav
<ianto> Over the past 2 months I have really been focusing my work on Ubuntu Cymru (Cymru is Wales in Welsh), a LoCo group for Wales https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WelshTeam . I have been the acting Point of Contact from the start of the group and on Sunday we will be getting the results of the election (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WelshTeam/Election).
<ianto> For Ubuntu Cymru I have been emailing many different persons and groups to help further the advancement of our current progress as a team. One of my public examples can be found here: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=5280 . I have also been trying to get a Welsh subforum (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1113818) as well as a website (I have had the -EU guys register ubuntu-cym.org but I am still awaiting a DNS key). I am very active and
<ianto> Some other contributions that I have made are translations in launchpad in Welsh & British English and also I help bug-triage from time-to-time.
<dpm> amachu: regarding on the e-mail question, it was a technical mistake from my part
<ianto> Locally I am known as an Ubuntu and OSS advocate who has helped with the Ubuntu installation of Welsh users in the region of 20 users this month alone. I am always available at any time to offer support and installation solutions for free to any user who requests it either locally, over the telephone, email or on IRC. Just 30 minutes ago I finished writing a letter to one of the -cym members who wanted to have a disc and a few Ubuntu stickers (a lot of whic
<ianto> If there are any further questions, then please just ask!
<amachu> dpm: understood and my best wishes..
<ianto> I have with me franki^ & brobostigon who wish to give a testimonial (franki just updated my wiki with one)
<ianto> Neither of whom are Ubuntu members but are involved in the community ^
<brobostigon> well, ianto helps alot of people with ubuntu, both in wales and in the whole of the uk, but i think te thing that stands out for me, is setting the welsh loco.
<ianto> brobostigon: Thanks for the comment :)
<brobostigon> its alot of hard work,
<Belutz> ianto, what would you do with your ubuntu membership if you're approved?
<ianto> Belutz: I understand that as an Ubuntu member I have rights to business/contact cards with Ubuntu on it. This way I can hand out cards to people about the Welsh LoCo team without breaking any trademarks
<Belutz> ianto, are there any offline activies that you do to establish Welsh LoCo?
<ianto> Belutz: Yeah, we've had a release party and I am always advocating to people in real life about Ubuntu. I'm currently thinking of setting up a bugjam in Wales at the moment and will carry the notion forward in our next meeting (which will be organised after Sunday's results)
<elky> ianto, what brings you all the way out of your own time zone to this membership board?
<ianto> elky: I have work at 9pm GMT and can't attend the meeting for the EMEA
<elky> where do you work?
<ianto> I work in a hardware store, B&Q night-shift
<elky> computer hardware?
<Belutz> ianto, if you're not approved today, would it make it hard to establish the LoCo?
<ianto> No, gardening and building and home-improvement stuff
<ianto> Belutz: It wouldn't make it hard but I'm hoping the card permissions will make it easier to distribute info via word of mouth
<amachu> how many other than you and darius are with Welsh team
<ianto> amachu: There are roughly 25 in launchpad and 15 in IRC
<Belutz> ianto, i would prefer if you come back again after you establish the LoCo
<elky> it's a good start, but im not convinced yet. +0
<ianto> Belutz: What do you recommend that needs to be done?
<amachu> ianto: well I feel he is doing good.. +1 considering the overall activities..
<TheMuso> Neither am I. I'd like to knwo what packages you are working on for one.
<amachu> persia: TheMuso ?
<persia> I'm in agreement here.  I'd like to either see Ubuntu Cymru be started, or more somewhere else.
<persia> (+0)
<TheMuso> +0 also
<amachu> ianto: the translations section could give more links in proof of it
<Belutz> ianto, gather more supporters, create a long term planning for the loco, and make more offline activities to promote ubuntu
<ianto> What do you mean by "be started"? I've been waiting over 2 months for Canonical sysadmins to reply to my ticket in RT ;/, we have done a lot since then. What do you want dome? :)
<amachu> and does Wales has a separate language? the wiki of Welsh Team says so.. any any plans of working for it?
<elky> ianto, i dont want to see your temper.
<persia> I'm confused.  I thought LoCo officialness was granted by the LoCo council.  If it's just the case of the Canonical Sysadmins not having done something, I'd by +1.
<ianto> amachu: Wales sure does have a separate language, Welsh :). https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/~chris is some of translations work :)
<ianto> elky: I'm sorry, I didn't realise that I was being aggressive :-/
<elky> ianto, i see one word in welsh
<amachu> ianto: they would like to see Welsh Team under Approved LoCo Teams
<ianto> amachu: Ah right OK then, that takes lots of months of work :)
<ianto> elky: If you could hold on for one moment, I'll find my Welsh translations (they aren't all appearing in that linked I've shown)
<amachu> ianto: Keep up the good work and are there people from UK-LoCo to support you
<ianto> amachu: brobostigon is from the UK LoCo and franki^ is a member of both -cym and -uk
<amachu> ianto: ok. I wish you all the best next time around.
<Belutz> ianto, keep up the good work, hope to see ubuntu-cym to be listed in approved LoCo team
<ianto> amachu: OK then thanks :)
<amachu> ianto: Best wishes for Welsh Team too..
<ianto> I'm having troubles on that link for you elky, I've translated a bit of Ubuntu and a lot of the Gnome-Do project into Welsh, I've switched around usernames so it's playing up on the db
<ianto> But I guess it's an overall +0 anyway? :)
<amachu> Belutz: elky: TheMuso: On the new member to the Board, I would like to have you opinion on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZhengPengHou
<persia> Let's put that formally on the agenda, if we're going to discuss it here.  freeflying isn't here to answer questions.
<TheMuso> agreed. I am not phased either way actually.
<amachu> persia: thats fine
<elky> it's only polite to give him the opportunity to be here if we're discussing in public.
<amachu> elky: TheMuso: Belutz: reply to the thread on the mailing list
<TheMuso> ok
<Belutz> amachu, ok, will do that
<amachu> Thank you everyone for participating
<KhaaL> thank you for holding the meeting
<amachu> Our next meeting will be on 26 May 09, 10.00 UTC
<ianto> Thanks for the opportunity to apply :-)
<Belutz> amachu, elky, TheMuso, persia: thanks :)
<TheMuso> np
<elky> thanks amachu
<Belutz> for all the candidates, thanks for being here and keep up the good work
<boyet> i missed the meeting is over?
<persia> boyet, Yep.
<boyet> when is the next
<KhaaL> 26 May 09, 10.00 UTC
<boyet> is it all about the membership?
<Knightlust> yeah
<boyet> oi dax ikaw ba to, are we allowed to speak our langauge?
<Knightlust> boyet: no, english only channel. let's get back to #ubuntu-ph
<boyet> so may 29 is the next round
<persia> May 26th.
<zul> |o
<sommer> high everybody :-)
 * mathiaz waves
<nealmcb> sommer: heigh ho!
<kirkland> o/
<ttx> o/
 * coffeedude lifts a toast to mathiaz 
 * nealmcb waves at coffeedude
 * coffeedude remembers it is 10am local time for him....
 * coffeedude hubs nealmcb 
 * coffeedude maybe shouldn't be toasting.....
<ttx> Hubbing is bad.
<nealmcb> coffeedude: wanna get hitched in iowa?
<coffeedude> hugs.....meant hugs....
<coffeedude> nealmcb, LOL!@
<nealmcb> usb hubs?
<coffeedude> I've had a long few days.
<leoquant> ã
<ttx> coffeedude: what's your status wrt coming to UDS ?
<nealmcb> we can dance the samba!
<mathiaz> all right - let's get started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<coffeedude> ttx, not going to make it.  Triple booked on dev work.  But I will start on the likewise-open 5.2 packages for Karmic this week.  Also will fix the upgrade from 4.1 issue.
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> last week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090505
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Merges
<MootBot> New Topic:  Merges
<mathiaz> I've published a list of merges that look easy
<mathiaz> http://ubuntuserver.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/hungry-for-merges-the-ubuntu-server-team-has-a-selection-for-your-appetite/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntuserver.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/hungry-for-merges-the-ubuntu-server-team-has-a-selection-for-your-appetite/
<mathiaz> I've also updated the Roadmap with the list
<ttx> I confirm that the tomcat6 remerge there is very easy for a beginner.
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<mathiaz> So anyone interested in the merge process can start by these
<dendrobates_> o/
<mathiaz> The technical level shouldn't be high and will help in understanding the merge process itself.
<mathiaz> And once all the merges on the list are done, MoM has the full list
<mathiaz> https://merges.ubuntu.com/
 * RoAkSoAx waves
<mathiaz> As of now there are 227 outstanding merges in main 363 outstanding merges in universe
<mathiaz> enough to keep us busy for a while :)
<mathiaz> any questions related to the merge process?
 * nijaba is late: o/
<coffeedude> mathiaz, where does the MIT krb5 1.7 packaging fall in this?
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] MIT krb5 1.7
<MootBot> New Topic:  MIT krb5 1.7
<mathiaz> coffeedude: so krb5 1.7 has been synced from debian
<coffeedude> mathiaz, but is still in beta correct?
<mathiaz> coffeedude: yes
<mathiaz> coffeedude: 1.7 is still in beta according to upstream
<mathiaz> coffeedude: debian has moved 1.7 to unstable though
<mathiaz> the libkrb53 transition has started in karmic
<coffeedude> mathiaz, I can start looking at local patches for likewise-open to work against the 1.7 code but can't officially move to it until it is released.
<mathiaz> for now we're not doing anything special - we're just relying on the debian autoimport to rebuild the packages
<mathiaz> coffeedude: understood.
<coffeedude> mathiaz, so an 'apt-get install libkrb53' in karmix will get you 1.7 though correct?
<mathiaz> coffeedude: we can talk with the MIT devs about their plan for 1.7
<coffeedude> s/karmix/karmic/
<mathiaz> coffeedude: nope - libkrb53 is no longer there
<mathiaz> coffeedude: libkrb5-4 is the new package name IIRC
<coffeedude> mathiaz, Ahh....ok.  But that's what you get from 'apt-get install i-want-the-krb5-client-libs-pkg-name'
<coffeedude> mathiaz, that's all I needed to know I think.
<mathiaz> coffeedude: you want libkrb5-3
<mathiaz> coffeedude: libkrb53 is still in karmic because some packages are still depending on it
<mathiaz> coffeedude: however libkrb53 will disappear from karmic once the transition is completed
<coffeedude> mathiaz, understood.
 * nealmcb is surprised to see that single-des seems to still be supported by default for the previous release of kerberos
<mathiaz> great - the MIT devs will be at UDS - so we can talk to them about their release plan
<mathiaz> anything else related to krb7 1.7?
<mathiaz> hm - *krb5*
<coffeedude> mathiaz, I'm good.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Karmic Alpha1
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Alpha1
<mathiaz> so we're preparing the alpha1 release of Karmic
<mathiaz> scheduled for this Thursday
<mathiaz> that means some iso testing will be conducted in the coming days
<mathiaz> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<mathiaz> ^^ will track the list of candidates
<mathiaz> Any help in this area is welcome
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] UDS
<MootBot> New Topic:  UDS
<mathiaz> so we're also preparing for UDS
<mathiaz> schedule to happen in 2 weeks in the lovely city of Barcelona, Spain
<mathiaz> dendrobates: anything to say on this topic?
<dendrobates> mathiaz: this UDS will be a little different.
<dendrobates> we have 2 session rooms and a break out room
<dendrobates> so that means twice as many sessions.
<dendrobates> I have just received notice, that they will be randomizing the rooms.
<soren> Hahah!
<dendrobates> so, we will not just get to sit in the same room, and it may be a little complicated figuring out where to go.
 * sommer likes to setup camp
<dendrobates> soren: I'm not kidding.
<ttx> sommer: like a good sniper :)
<zul> randomizing?
<ttx> zul: you have to solve a riddle to get to the right room.
 * mathiaz thinks that will help to get some physical exercise done during the summit
<dendrobates> zul:  yes, that;s when things change in an unpredictable way.
<nijaba> zul: and it prevents people from falling asleep too long
<zul> ttx: like monty python and the holy grail?
 * kirkland hopes for a broken RNG
<mathiaz> dendrobates: will the rooms schedule be published before UDS?
<dendrobates> As usual I will buy a beer for any server team community team members that show up.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: I sure hope so.
<ogra> mathiaz, its on lp since weeks
<mathiaz> dendrobates: s/community//g
<ttx> mathiaz: well, we are part of the community, so we get a beer as well.
<mathiaz> ogra: I meant the rooms where the discussion are taking place
<nijaba> ttx: can I get a coke instead?
<ogra> mathiaz, me too :)
<dendrobates> ogra: without the randomization, though.
<mathiaz> IIUC we'll have to change physical room between discussion
<dendrobates> ttx: maybe, sherry.
<zul> dendrobates: do we get a homeroom a la high school?
<dendrobates> we have plenty of open spaces and a breakout room for adhoc discussions.
<dendrobates> zul: that is a good question/idea.
<ogra> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/ for reference
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/ for reference
<mathiaz> ok - any other questions related to UDS?
<dendrobates> please note that the sessions can still move around.
<ScottK> It's nice that it highlights the ones I'm signed up for ....
<kirkland> it's a great list of sessions so far!
<mathiaz> there are some free slots left
<ttx> kirkland: the server rooms have some of the busiest schedule around.
<mathiaz> I'd suggest to go through the server-a and server-b schedule and make sure the topic you wanna talk about are scheduled somewhere
<mathiaz> all right - any other ideas/comments/rants about UDS?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move one
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
<mathiaz> Any other question/ideas?
<gourgi> any plans for this in karmic https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WebMirrorManager  ?
<nijaba> gourgi: there is a talk about such a tool in the platform session
<nijaba> gourgi: mvo is leading it IIRC
<mathiaz> nijaba: what's the blueprint?
<nijaba> mathiaz: hold on
 * mathiaz doesn't move
<nijaba> mathiaz: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-karmic-repository-management
<mathiaz> nijaba: great - thanks for the link
<nijaba> oh, I forgot s/platform/foundations/
<gourgi> nijaba thank you
<nijaba> np
<mathiaz> nijaba: I've updated the wiki page to point to the new blueprint in LP
<mathiaz> nijaba: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WebMirrorManager
<nijaba> mathiaz: and I signalled the existence of this bp to mvo
<mathiaz> nijaba: right - we already talked about it during the Prague UDS
<nijaba> corrext
<mathiaz> Anything else?
<zul> nope
<kirkland> mathiaz: I thought I'd mention to this group that screen-profiles has been renamed to 'byobu'
<kirkland> mathiaz: thanks to this group for all the feedback given during screen-profiles-1.x cycle, here's to an even better byobu-2.0 :-)
<mathiaz> kirkland: awesome - how did you find the new name?
<coffeedude> "bring your own bottled ubuntu" ?
<ttx> coffeedude: almost
<gourgi> kirkland i love byobu, i'm gonna translate it in greek soon.
<nijaba> byobu is an ancient japenese term....
<kirkland> mathiaz: nijaba is right!
<kirkland> it's a japanese term for elegant folding room dividers, aka folding screens
<gourgi> kirkland also server-guide needs update about byobu http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/screen-profiles.html
<kirkland> i think this is appropriate, since this is really just a fancier frontend to screen itself
<kirkland> gourgi: thanks a lot!  i'm hoping very much to focus on internationalization of byobu for Karmic
<kirkland> this will require help from all you non-english speakers :-)
<gourgi> kirkland i know, i follow your ppa and blog pretty often
<mathiaz> kirkland: you don't speak non-english?
<kirkland> gourgi: great
<kirkland> mathiaz: i do plan on translating it into Texan, Cajun, and Latin :-P
<kirkland> (my other lingos)
<kirkland> heh
<nijaba> kirkland: I'll do parisian and FR_sl then....
<mathiaz> allright -anything else?
<kirkland> mathiaz: thanks!
<zul> meeting next week?
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<nijaba> just before UDS?  seems tough....
<mathiaz> so most of us will be traveling next week
<mathiaz> on tuesday
<mathiaz> so I suggest we cancel the meeting next week
<mathiaz> and then there will be UDS
<mathiaz> in two weeks
<mathiaz> so I suggest to cancel the meeting in two weeks as well
<mathiaz> that brings us to Tuesday June 2nd
<mathiaz> so next meeting: Tuesday June 2nd, same place, same time?
 * nealmcb will miss you all!
 * gourgi hopes for good news from UDS about the local mirrors management :)
<kirkland> mathiaz: ack
<mathiaz> nealmcb: you can tune in during the UDS discussions
<nealmcb> I'll be at google i/o playing with android
<nealmcb> but may be able to tune in for a few
<mathiaz> all right then
<ttx> nealmcb: Tunein, you'll enjoy the incredible audio lag :)
<mathiaz> next meeting in three weeks, Tue Jun 2nd, 15:00 UTC, #ubuntu-meeting
<mathiaz> thanks for attending
<mathiaz> and happy travels to Spain for some of you :)
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:54.
 * coffeedude waves to *.  See you back on #ubuntu-server
<sommer> later on all
<andresmujica1> hi!
<bdmurray> andresmujica1: hello
<hggdh> hey-llo
<andresmujica1> :)
<charlie-tca> Hello
<pedro_> hello folks
<andresmujica1> so.. all the command stuff for the bot, who can be in charge of that?
<charlie-tca> Whoever chairs the meeting
<mkorn> hi
<andresmujica1> ok, so if i'm the one who asked for it, i should do it..  np.. hope to do it OK
<andresmujica1> ok, let's start this everyone is here for the bugsquad first monthly meeting right?
<micahg> yep :)
<pedro_> andresmujica1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot ;-)
<andresmujica1> great!
<andresmujica1> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is andresmujica1.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<andresmujica1> ok
<andresmujica1> let's put our first proposed topic
<andresmujica1> before that the proposed agenda is here
<andresmujica1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting
 * pedro_ looking
<andresmujica1> [TOPIC] Rationale behind this Meeting -- andresmujica
<MootBot> New Topic:  Rationale behind this Meeting -- andresmujica
<andresmujica1> Some weeks ago an email wass sent to bugsquad/bugcontrol mailing list proposing a formal meeting for bugsquad members
<andresmujica1> the main objective for this meeting is to improve our triaging duties, help us each other, identifying some needed tasks, and everything that you may consider would benefit us as a team
<andresmujica1> so i wonder what the members think about this?
<andresmujica1> why are the expectations? and thoughts?
<andresmujica1> s/why/which/
<hggdh> presonally, I consider it a good idea -- not only for -control, but for any other triager that wants to get involved in triaging
<pedro_> I think it's a great way to improve the communication of the bugsquad itself, people can come to here and ask for help, be more involved with the team, etc
<txwikinger_work> +1
<andresmujica1> ohh, yes this is for every bugsquad member, even if they aren't member yet, this would be a great introduction i believe.
<hggdh> even with the wiki, there are always questions on procedure, and they could be if not addressed here, at least discussed
<pedro_> so it's going to be a monthly meeting?
<andresmujica1> not only control, but one of the ideas is to help introduce to the team new members.
<bdmurray> I think some issues should have a wider audience, perhaps the mailing list, than just this meeting though.
<andresmujica1> the initial propose was to held it monthly..
<andresmujica1> bdmurray: you believe this can overlap with mailing list or idle time at the channel??
<bdmurray> I just think that due to the wide variety of time zones that bug squad members inhabit some issues are best discussed on the mailing list as opposed in a meeting a specific time that not everyone may be able to attend.
<hggdh> bdmurray, I agree -- the meeting is not enough. Overlapping with idle time in #ubuntu-bugs does not help, if the pieces of userful information are spread through time
<andresmujica1> yea i believe that too.  Maybe we should focus on certain topics that can be addressed here
<andresmujica1> i wonder, as you had formal meetings in the past, why they're not active anymore?
<thekorn> my (very) personal opinion is: don't start yet another meeting, why not using the QA meeting on wednesday for discussions around the bugsquad,
<bdmurray> The QA meeting usually ends up taking most of the time alloted for it.
<thekorn> we could even add a bi-weekly or monthly topic to the agend for bugsquad topics
<andresmujica1> hmm that could be a good idea.
<bdmurray> When looking at each topic I think it is important to evaluate the utility of discussing it in a meeting versus on the mailing list.
<charlie-tca> If another meeting needs to be held, it should be kept within the allotted time.
<hggdh> OK. I propose we finish this item on the mailing list; and move on
<andresmujica1> OK.
<hggdh> otherwise we will use all time to discuss if we are, or are not to have meetings
<andresmujica1> But this item is important as it would determine if we are going to stablish a regular meeting or not.
<thekorn> good idea
<andresmujica1> yes.
<bdmurray> Why don't we try to evaluate the appropriateness of each topic as they come up?
<hggdh> +1
<andresmujica1> +1
<andresmujica1> ok so let's move with next topic.
<andresmujica1> everyone agree?
<pedro_> yeah, let's go on
<hggdh> andresmujica1, you are the chair ;-)
<andresmujica1> [TOPIC] New bug trends identified by triagers
<MootBot> New Topic:  New bug trends identified by triagers
<andresmujica1> The idea to propose this topic is that as we are A LOT of triagers
<andresmujica1> some of them had found some bug trends...
<andresmujica1> for example
<andresmujica1> as soon as Intrepid went out, cheese had a regression due to uvcvideo,
<andresmujica1> and a lot of people were affected
<andresmujica1> another example is X freeze bugs..
<andresmujica1> so i believe that when a triager believes it has found some big issue, it can be discussed here to take apropiate measurements..
<andresmujica1> don't know what you think?
<pace_t_zulu> sorry i'm late, is this the BugSquad meeting?
<hacktick> me too...
<andresmujica1> pace_t_zulu: yes it is, welcome!
<bdmurray> So this is a topic that may be best for the mailing list since more triagers will be able to comment on / act on the trend.
<azimout> pace_t_zulu: yes it is
<hacktick> hello everyone
<pace_t_zulu> hello everyone, my name is John Haitas
<hggdh> hum. I think that if a trend is perceived, the ML is the fastest way to get it out
<azimout> andresmujica1: how would such a trend be discussed "here", if these meetings will be monthly?
<pace_t_zulu> apologies for my tardiness.... i will sit back and listen
<pedro_> if they found something that could be big , that should be raised on the ML, right?
<pedro_> hggdh: +1
<andresmujica1> yes, you're absolutely right.  So maybe we need more ML for this kind of issues?
<hggdh> but we *could* have a wiki showing current trends
<andresmujica1> have we ever do that?
<pedro_> could we adopt what bdmurray said and send this to the ML rather?
<micahg> wiki, or could maybe a section of brainstorm or something similar?
<azimout> wiki sounds good...
<bdmurray> Checking the wiki requires work on readers parts while an e-mail to the mailing list with show in their inbox
<andresmujica1> yeap.. if it's a trend we need faster reaction...
<micahg> people can subscribe to the wiki page
<charlie-tca> This needs to be on the mailing list so action can happen fast enough
<bdmurray> I'd propose summarizing the trend in the mailing list message and document it at a wiki page
<andresmujica1> OK.
<hggdh> the ML should always be used to communicate a trend; the wiki can be used just as a consolidation
<hggdh> bdmurray, +1 (you *are* a fast typist ;-)
<andresmujica1> and we can have a consolidation page for each release cycle ?
<charlie-tca> Agreed. Discussion should happen at mailing list level
<hggdh> we can
<pedro_> andresmujica1: that'd be ideal
<bdmurray> I do think having a wiki page with infamous bugs for a release would be quite useful.
<andresmujica1> [IDEA] New Trends discussion should happen at mailing list level
<MootBot> IDEA received:  New Trends discussion should happen at mailing list level
<pace_t_zulu> +1
<azimout> how about automating this functionality in launchpad?
<azimout> or is it already there?
<hggdh> azimout, the idea is good, but this is a complex thing to get.
<azimout> something like "bugs with most activity in the past 7 days"
<bdmurray> azimout: Those usually end up already being known to the development team
<hggdh> er, packages with the most bugs would be better
<azimout> or "bugs with the most duplicates added in the past 7 days"
<azimout> hggdh: with the most *new* bugs, you mean?
<bdmurray> wrt bugs with the most duplicates this report may be helpful - http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/launchpad-database/bugs-with-most-duplicates.html
<hggdh> yes, for example. But I think this has to be more carefully considered, and it all falls into the wiki page bdmurray suggested
<andresmujica1> well, but for the topic discussed, i believe that our work as team member is to report at the ML the trend identified, and then with the existing reports and experience of the people here we can confirm it
<andresmujica1> to take the actions needed.
<hggdh> +1. Layout of  wiki page should be discussed off-meeting, though
<andresmujica1> ok.
<andresmujica1> [IDEA] WIKI page consolidating new trends
<MootBot> IDEA received:  WIKI page consolidating new trends
<andresmujica1> [ACTION] Discuss the convenience or not of a Wiki page with bad bugs per cycle at the ML
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Discuss the convenience or not of a Wiki page with bad bugs per cycle at the ML
<andresmujica1> next topic then,
<andresmujica1> [TOPIC] Bugs that need attention/help/mentoring
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bugs that need attention/help/mentoring
<andresmujica1> the discussion maybe would be similar to the previous one?
<bdmurray> If you mean triage mentoring, like what should I do with bug X then again I think asking the question on the mailing list may be best.
<thekorn> I think we have two ways for this bugs ask in #ubuntu-bugs or ask on the ML
<bdmurray> This might also motivate other new triagers to ask questions if these types of questions are being asked on it.
<hggdh> didn 't we reopen mentoring for triage?
<bdmurray> hggdh: Do you mean the mentoring thing in Launchapd?
<hggdh> bdmurray, yes
<thekorn> great idea
<thekorn> we would be the first team using it ;)
<andresmujica1> :)
<bdmurray> That's really more for fixing bugs than for triaging bugs.  Additionally, if I can mentor someone triaging bugs I can usually do the triaging faster than waiting for someone else.
<bdmurray> Because the amount of time it takes to triage is usually significantly less than the time it takes to fix a bug.
<micahg> well, I've had great help from the #ubuntu-bugs channel and hddgh in particular in learning how to triage
<hggdh> well, yes. But this is a way for passing knowledge. I have been doing a lot if it lately
<andresmujica1> that's right, however maybe we can somehow help new members with mentoring.. so they can triage more effectively the bugs
<micahg> and I've been able to triage about 100 bugs since I started about 2 weeks ago
<bdmurray> I think the right way to approach this is having people asking to help rather than looking at a bug and offering to help with it.
<micahg> mentoring is a great help
<azimout> can someone please paste the link to mentoring in LP?
<hggdh> prehaps we should stress the -bugs as a channel for that
<bdmurray> If I'm already looking at the bug I might as well work on it.
<hggdh> (although this *is* the idea behind it)
<azimout> i wanted to remind everyone that any advice on mentoring should also be added to the wiki, to avoid repeated questions
<hggdh> bdmurray, I agree, and most of the times I am itching to get it done. But by leaving the work to the new triager, I am sure I end up helping more. But it *does* take much longer
<micahg> it's the same with any training though
<andresmujica1> mentoring as a way to get more bugs effectively triaged
<micahg> initially you can do it faster yourself
<bdmurray> And this is why I think we should promote people asking questions about the bugs they are looking at or find.
<showard_> in my opinion, mentoring is helpful telling new people the tricks on how to triage efficiently and finding the bugs with highest impact. Wiki and -bugs can help single bugs
<micahg> but eventually you have more hands to help
<azimout> never mind: https://help.launchpad.net/Teams/Mentoring
<hggdh> so. To summarise: do we do mentoring, or not?
<bdmurray> I think mentoring is a valuable thing but marking bugs as mentoring offered is not.
<andresmujica1> ok, so the mentoring model applyable here is at the channel
<micahg> +1 bdmurray
<micahg> except for fixing bugs as bdmurray mentioned in the beginning
<hggdh> +1
<azimout> +1
<charlie-tca> +1
<thekorn> +1 for passiv mentoring: answering questions on -bugs or on the mailinglist is the best way to do mentoring
<txwikinger_work> +1
<andresmujica1> ok
<andresmujica1> everyone should be a mentor or we should distinguish them?
<pedro_> I've created a page some time ago https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Mentors
<bencrisford> we could organise it like the MOTU do?
<pedro_> where everybody on the bugcontrol team can add their self if they are willing to mentor someone
<bdmurray> Putting irc nicks on that wiki page might help too
<hggdh> this will imply that a triager can target you on a question. So, please only put your name/nick there if you are willing to answer
<bdmurray> We could also contact the bugcontrol mailing list for mentors.
<thewrath> not spamming lol
<hggdh> bdmurray, good idea
<pedro_> that'd be nice, yes
<pace_t_zulu> I think I would do well to have a Mentor
<pace_t_zulu> So that I can be more effective triaging
<andresmujica1> so the idea for mentoring  would be: answering questions on -bugs or on the mailinglist and put irc nicks at the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Mentors
<andresmujica1> ok, next topic
<bdmurray> and contact the bug control mailing list for ments
<andresmujica1> right!
<andresmujica1> [TOPIC] Open Discussions -- bcurtiswx
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussions -- bcurtiswx
<hggdh> well, bcurtiswx is note here. Anyone willing please chime in
<andresmujica1> well. We've covered a pair of topics, and they're probably better handled at the ML, however there are still some topics that could get into this format
<andresmujica1> and as far as i can see
<bdmurray> One thing I'm curious to know is how people attending UDS can help out the Bug Squad.
<andresmujica1> one big conclusion is that we need to use a lot more the ML.
<hggdh> bdmurray, what do you mean?
<hggdh> hum. Better debugging instructions for more packages, for starters
<bdmurray> hggdh: I mean since I'm going there, is there anything I can find out for people?  In terms of having hallway conversations with developers or Launchpad people.
<hggdh> yes -- we need to beef up the debugging procedures
<micahg> +1 hggdh
<hggdh> we only have a handfull of packages nowadays
<andresmujica1> which ones from the bugsquad would attend to UDS ?
<azimout> +1 hggdh
<andresmujica1> ok, we've got 10 more minutes.
<andresmujica1> so should we have monthly meetings for the bugsquad team?
<azimout> let's do lp improvements then
<hggdh> bdmurray, one thing to get there is if we could have something like this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DebuginfoFS
<bdmurray> I'll send an e-mail to the bugsquad regarding how UDS attendees can help.
<andresmujica1> ok.
<micahg> we've got something like that
<micahg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures
<hggdh> sounds like once-a-month is not bad. We can revisit it on the ML
<hggdh> micahg, yes, but there are many more packages than what we currently provide there
<micahg> indeed
<hggdh> (and we *did* get something done here, so it was worth it)
<andresmujica1> yes.
<andresmujica1> i do believe that too
<andresmujica1> we should make a vote?
<bdmurray> I thought I saw that SUSE had a wiki page with some debugging procedures for various packages that we might look at
<hggdh> bdmurray, will look at it
<bdmurray> http://en.opensuse.org/Submitting_Bug_Reports
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://en.opensuse.org/Submitting_Bug_Reports
<bdmurray> And of course looking at upstream project pages might be useful
<andresmujica1> everyone agrees with having a bugsquad monthly meeting would be useful?
<hggdh> right now -- once-a-month? +/-1, please
<hggdh> +1
<andresmujica1> +1
<micahg> +1
<charlie-tca> +1
<pedro_> +1
<bdmurray> +1
<andresmujica1> great!
<azimout> +1
<mib_u03jo9xa> +1
<pace_t_zulu> +1
<bdmurray> June 9th? continuing with the 2nd Tuesday trend?
<hggdh> +1
<andresmujica1> +1
<andresmujica1> 2nd Tuesday is perfect
<charlie-tca> Yes, makes it easier to keep it the same
<azimout> +1
<andresmujica1> so, i believe we should streamline the topics for this meeting so they don't clash with ML and -bugs and get useful for this format.  I wonder of the proposed topics listed at the wiki,  which ones do you believe that  we must discuss next meeting?
<mib_u03jo9xa> +1
<azimout> but, we didn't do the lp improvements part :-(
<charlie-tca> Nor is the person that proposed it here.
<andresmujica1> :(  we need lp improvements :) but is OK if we let that topic for next meeting? or anyone wants to move to our channel?
<charlie-tca> Is it real important?
<charlie-tca> If not, postpone it to the next meeting
<showard_> ML with proposals for changes?
<mib_u03jo9xa> does lp = LaunchPad?
<pace_t_zulu> mib_u03jo9xa: yes
<azimout> important yes, urgent no. +1 for next meeting
<pedro_> mib_u03jo9xa: yeap
<hggdh> let's get to a quick chat on -bugs, and finish this meeting
<hggdh> 1 minute
<andresmujica1> ok
<bdmurray> andresmujica1: thanks for organizing this!
<andresmujica1> [AGREED] NExt meeting would be held on June 9th 16.00 UTC at #ubuntu-meeting
<MootBot> AGREED received:  NExt meeting would be held on June 9th 16.00 UTC at #ubuntu-meeting
<andresmujica1> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:59.
<andresmujica1> thanks to all of you, let's chat a bit at -bugs
<hggdh> thank you, foks
<pedro_> thanks you all
<micahg> thanks everyone
<charlie-tca> Thanks, everyone. And a big thank you to andresmujica1 for organizing this.
<andresmujica1> thanks to all of you to attending!!
 * apw arrives
 * pgraner o/
 * rtg is here
 * cking is here too
 * sconklin here
<lieb_> Hmm
 * amitk waves
 * bradf is here
 * manjo waves
 * jjohansen here
 * cking notes the roll call may take a while nowadays
 * smb_tp \o
<sconklin> agenda - intros, closing
<manjo> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is manjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<manjo> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<manjo> [TOPIC] Open Action Items - apw smb ogasawara arrange UDS session on regressions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items - apw smb ogasawara arrange UDS session on regressions
<manjo> apw, ?
<apw> i think we tabled that one last week as pgraner was away, and we needed him to arrange us a slot to talka bout it
<pgraner> manjo: done session is scheduled as part of the SRU session
<apw> (and he has done it :))
<manjo> ok next topic
<manjo> [TOPIC] Open Action Items -  manjo to send out list of HW affected by suspend/resume issues on kernel-team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items -  manjo to send out list of HW affected by suspend/resume issues on kernel-team
<pgraner> so manjo did you do it?
<manjo> I mailed out a list of HW and the scripts on ogasawara request
<manjo> I did not get any responds except from bradf
<manjo> any thoughts ?
<pgraner> manjo: kernel-team list?
<manjo> yes
 * apw didn't have any time to really look over it.  the discussions we had round it on irc 
<pgraner> manjo: ok I must have missed it, I'll go look this PM
<apw> said it was the right sort fo approach
<manjo> yes apw I remember that
<apw> you had managed to find some correlations.  more of that seemed worth while
<manjo> yes I ran out of free cycles to look more ...
<apw> i'd call that irem done, you can report any further activty as and when it occurs
<manjo> anyone from the community might be interested ? if we make an annouce ?
<manjo> [TOPIC] Open Action Items - smb schedule a session for end-of-life stable update kernels
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items - smb schedule a session for end-of-life stable update kernels
<apw> you might formulate something and sent it to kernel-team email list
<manjo> apw, can do
<manjo> [ACTION] manjo to formulate mail on HW list triage for community involvement
<MootBot> ACTION received:  manjo to formulate mail on HW list triage for community involvement
<manjo> smb_tp, ? ^^
<manjo> smb_tp, you have any info on the session for end-of-life stable update kernels ?
<smb_tp> Hm, seems I mismatched that with the other schedule pgraner wanted to do
<pgraner> smb_tp: mismatched?
<smb_tp> pgraner, I thought you would schdule the session
<pgraner> smb_tp: I still have open sessions slots
<pgraner> smb_tp: ok I'll do it now
<manjo> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty
<pgraner> smb_tp: sorry I must have lost it when tomboy ate all my notes
<smb_tp> pgraner, Ok, thanks. No, could be that I just thought you would do
<smb_tp> Someday I should take a tuition on how to schedule sessions
<smb_tp> Ok
<manjo> any status/info on Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty ?
<smb_tp> Err, Jaunty has been uploaded to proposed. I think it might be possible to move it to updates around this week
<manjo> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Intrepid
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Intrepid
<smb_tp> So we can follow up with the next proposed which contains a lot of stable patches and should bake longer
<smb_tp> Intrepid porposed was copied today
<smb_tp> So the way is free for the next proposed
<apw> nice
<manjo> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Hardy
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Hardy
<smb_tp> Which should get done soon as it already accumulated quite a backlog
<smb_tp> Hardy has been in updates since last week
<manjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Status  Alpha-1 may 14th
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Status  Alpha-1 may 14th
<smb_tp> There are a few new things to go to proposed as well
<manjo> rtg, ?
<rtg> 2.6.30-rc5 is uploaded for Alpha-1
<apw> also nice
<rtg> been working on DKMS replacements for LRM
<cking> even nicer
<rtg> I think I'm gonna drop ltmodem altogether
<rtg> there is no functional upstream driver for it
<amitk> the germans will rebel
<apw> we should note that KMS should be available for userspace to use in alpha-1 so it can be tested
<rtg> bcmwl is a real pain, but I'm figuring it out
<rtg> amitk: ltmodem is a Winbond soft modem driver
<rtg> not ISDN
<rtg> manjo: thats all from me
<manjo> ok thanks rtg moving on
<manjo> [TOPIC] ARM Tree - status ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Tree - status ?
<amitk> all's quiet on this front
<bradf> have nothing definitive on android but it looks like the next one will be .29 based
<amitk> i'm doing a basic clock framework patch for the imx51 to send upstream
<bradf> that's where they seem to be working now
<manjo> anything else amitk bradf ?
<bradf> nope
<amitk> nope
<manjo> [TOPIC] LPIA Tree - status ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  LPIA Tree - status ?
<sconklin> Last week I rebased the hardy netbook-lpia kernel on top of the current hardy release, and released the kernel, lum, and lbm netbook-lpia branches
<sconklin> So far, everything tests good
<cking> any testing results?
<apw> so we are finally where we wanted to be ... near zero delta from hardy right?
<sconklin> right.
<apw> sconklin, congratulations ... its been a slog and three quarters
<cking> give that man a beer!
<sconklin> We'll rebase again soon when smb releases hardy again, and hopefully I got all the kinks out of the rebase scripts so it will be really smooth
<apw> sconklin, ^5
<amitk> ^5
<sconklin> The big remaining task is to check all the patches in the delta against upstream and our later releases.
<sconklin> I'll take those beers in a week
<apw> presumably that delta is 10's of patches now
<rtg> sconklin: whats the story with the Intel repos that they created this week?
<apw> rather than 'unknown' *scream*
<sconklin> rtg: Been meaning to ask about that - first I knew was your email, and I haven't looked yet. They came out of the blue.
<sconklin> I think that may be Hugh's work.
<rtg> sconklin: its got the PSB updates taht I think we've already seen
<rtg> just curious about the other stuff, but no matter
<sconklin> right, but I think that Hugh has been talking to them to get poulsbo into a repo so we don't get entire delivery drops
<manjo> anything else sconklin ? (sconklin has so far earned 10 beer points)
<sconklin> that's all I have in lpia
<rtg> hmm, perhaps an info drop from Hugh would be nice.
<apw> manjo action him to explain :)
<cking> ..and count me in on that info drop too
<bradf> i think he could just spam c-kt-l
<lieb_> yes
<manjo> [ACTION]  info drop from Hugh socnklin on lpia
<MootBot> ACTION received:   info drop from Hugh socnklin on lpia
<manjo> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs - Regressions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs - Regressions
<ogasawara> I sent you guys an updated buglist this week.  It had 3 new regressions but apw and smb_tp already have them assigned.
<amitk> sconklin: keep them pushing there. They have a tendency to disappear after a few git pushes. http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=jpan9/jpan9-git-tree.git;a=summary is the last attempt to get them to do it.
<smb_tp> ogasawara, 3?
<smb_tp> I only remember 2 but ok
<ogasawara> smb_tp: hrm, maybe I miscounted
<apw> maybe one was already assigned
<apw> ogasawara, glad to have your list updating agaiin .. keeps us on our toes
<smb_tp> Can be. I think the one with brad on it sounded alien
<smb_tp> Right
<smb_tp> +1 on that
<manjo> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs - Bug day report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs - Bug day report
<ogasawara> stats look good so far . . .
<ogasawara> Fix Released = 9
<ogasawara> Fix Committed = 1
<ogasawara> Won't Fix = 60
<ogasawara> Invalid = 4
<ogasawara> In Progress = 2
<ogasawara> Incomplete = 142
<smb_tp> *scream*
<ogasawara> Triaged = 38
<ogasawara> Confirmed = 12
<ogasawara> reassigned = 1
<ogasawara> New = 2
<manjo> ogasawara, anything else ?
<ogasawara> manjo: done
<manjo> [TOPIC] Open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
<amitk> ogasawara: this is jaunty?
<pgraner> apw, rtg: who will update the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview page with our bits? hint hint
<ogasawara> amitk: yes
<apw> rtg you gonna or you want me to?
<rtg> apw: feel free
<apw> manjo actione on me please
 * pgraner watches rtg avoid wiki work
<rtg> you know how much I like editing wiki pages
<smb_tp> pgraner, Question. Saw the blueprint but that reads to me like end of life a stable kernel, while I thought the sessionshould be about end of live for stable updates to a released kernel. Did I misunderstand?
<manjo> [ACTION] apw to  update the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview page with our bits?
<MootBot> ACTION received:  apw to  update the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview page with our bits?
<pgraner> smb_tp: I guess I missunderstood you. You can change it to what you think is correct
<smb_tp> Ok, I just wnated to ask aloud so anybody else can correct me/us
<smb_tp> Otherwise I change it into what I think. :)
<pgraner> smb_tp: go for it
<apw> smb_tp, i think we wanted to make sure we had discusees how and when we took stable updates
<apw> what the criteria was.  so that it was docuimented, and so that the SRU folks had a further chance
<smb_tp> apw, Ok, thanks, so that matches my memory
<apw> to comment on the issue
<apw> it being a thorn in master pgraner's behind
<smb_tp> Oh, now
<smb_tp> Slightly different then. Ok, got it
<pgraner> smb_tp: just adjust it
<manjo> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair Selection
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair Selection
<rtg> manjo: next meeting is not until June 2.
<manjo> right... I can continue if there are no takers
<pgraner> manjo: you found a new job :-)
<bradf> I don't mind doing it
<apw> you can argue amongst yourselves :)
<manjo> [ACTION] bradf to chair June 2nd kernel meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bradf to chair June 2nd kernel meeting
<bradf> will do
<manjo> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:32.
<apw> manjo, mootbot info to me as normal
<manjo> k
<apw> (unless you want to fix the wiki too)
<knome> popey, do we seem to have the emea meeting today or not?
<popey> knome: there is one scheduled for 20:00 UTC
<knome> i know, but can we expect adequate board member attendance?
<popey> what exactly do you want me to say?
<knome> that have you got any reaction for your mail? :)
<popey> there is a meeting booked
<knome> ...okay.
<zaafouri> hi all
<Kmos> hi
<zaafouri> Kmos, hi
<phanatic> good evening
<zaafouri> phanatic, hi =)
<popey> hi
<zaafouri> popey, hi
<knome> .
<charlie-tca> good luck, Knightlust
<Seveas> evenin'
<primes2h> Hi to all
<BslBryan> Hello, everyone. :-)
<knome> charlie-tca, Knightlust ?:P
<zaafouri> Seveas, primes2h, BslBryan hi
<charlie-tca> I don't know where that came from. I meant you!
<knome> ;))
<Seveas> ooh, knome finally in a meeting? :)
<knome> Seveas, yes \o/
<knome> Seveas, but damn sick
<knome> :<
<BslBryan> Sorry to hear that, knome.
<knome> it's ok
<knome> at least i got to be the first! :P
<Seveas> popey, phanatic, forumsmatthew, Pricey, stgraber, shout please
<popey> o/
<forumsmatthew> hi
<phanatic> hey
<BslBryan> Hello, forumesmatthew, phanatic.
<BslBryan> forums*
<forumsmatthew> :)
<Seveas> stgraber and Pricey have fairly large idle times, let's start without them. THey can catch up when they arrive
<Seveas> knome, you're first on the list. Please introduce yourself. Other membership candidates, please perpare a short introduction that you can paste in here when you're up.
<knome> okies!
<knome> i've been working with ubuntu since last september.
<knome> i did the xubuntu website redesing which was published parallel to intrepid release
<knome> in the jaunty cycle, i jumped in even more and did the xubuntu artwork cycle.
<Seveas> when did you start using (x)ubuntu?
<knome> that must be maybe three years ago.
<Seveas> one thing I miss on your wikipage and in here is some cheers from other xubuntu members/developers. Are you working mostly on your own?
<kebomix> hello ubuntu guys :D :P
<knome> we're working as a group if we can, but as there is no other marketing/artwork guys in the xubuntu team...
<Seveas> kebomix, there's a meeting in progress, please be quiet
<cody-somerville> I'm here :)
<knome> cody-somerville can tell more on what i've done
<Seveas> cody-somerville, excellent, what's your opinion on knome?
<BUGabundo> good evening
<cody-somerville> knome has been an important contributor to Xubuntu
 * cody-somerville apologizes as he is currently on the phone.
<cody-somerville> I have nothing but high praise for knome
<popey> I'm seeing little evidence in terms of activity in launchpad.
<Seveas> popey, well I think that can be expected from someone who does marketing and artwork
<popey> A few bugs, a few answers.
<popey> true
<knome> i've tried to work on launchpad if it's possible
<forumsmatthew> the xubuntu website update looks nice
<Seveas> which is why I wanted shouts, one from cody-somerville will do for me to go +1
<charlie-tca> I would like to say knome has done fantastic work in #xubuntu. He is always trying to help others, and his knowledge is solid.
<popey> two shouts from existing members is always useful :)
<popey> +1 from me too.
<forumsmatthew> I agree. +1
<cody-somerville> Knome has also started several initiatives to help bring the different flavours of Ubuntu together and led a few sessions at the last UDS
<phanatic> based on testimonials + personal experience: +1 :)
<Seveas> okay, that's +4, well done
<Seveas> welcome knome!
<knome> thanks.
<cody-somerville> w00t
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, knome. You did it!
<popey> congrats knome, sorry it took so long
<cody-somerville> Congratz knome!! :)
<knome> popey, no problem!
<forumsmatthew> congratulation!
<forumsmatthew> s
<BslBryan> Congratulations. :-)
<kebomix> sry wut is knome !
 * knome notes that he gladly accepts free beer at any time
<popey> Join the queue
<cody-somerville> hehe
<Seveas> Kmos, you're next in the list who is actually there
<Seveas> all in between failed to show up
<Kmos> Seveas: ok
<popey> Seveas: BUGabundo is here, he's #2 on the list
<Kmos> I've finished to write some presentation
<BUGabundo> yep popey
<Kmos> correct, BUGabundo is first
<Seveas> popey, oh, hi BUGabundo did you arrive late?
<BUGabundo> Seveas: yes!
<popey> sorry Kmos
<BUGabundo> sorry about that
<Kmos> np :)
<Kmos> he's my comrade from Portugal :P
<Seveas> ah ok, please introduce yourself then, you're up now BUGabundo :)
<BUGabundo> just trying to get my draft application in order
<BUGabundo> thanks seve
<BUGabundo> hi every one. I'm BUGabundo, known offline as Fernando Pereira
<BUGabundo> I'm a 28 yo Sysadmin
<BUGabundo> I'm a FOSS & Ubuntu advocate.
<BUGabundo> In terms of my future with Ubuntu , I haven't stop a bit, and aint planing to. In terms of near future, I plan to keep at what I'm doing now, in a better way. Helping testing, triaging, providing new and current users with support and information; to do what I've been trying to do for this past 18 months: to be a buffer between Devel World and User Land
<Seveas> reading the wikipage and LP: I'm impressed with the cheers. +1
<BUGabundo> for the past 3 years I've been using Ubuntu full time on my machines
<Seveas> I've seen you around for ages, what took you so long to apply?
<BUGabundo> and for the last two been doing beta and then Alpha testing during the devel cycle
<BUGabundo> I'm now running Karmic
<BUGabundo> Seveas: lazyness I guess
<BUGabundo> planed to do it back in november
<BUGabundo> then jneves applied last month, so I decided to do it too....
<BUGabundo> just was question of bad schedule dates.
<BUGabundo> as seen by today, this is not the best free time for me....
<BUGabundo> any more questions?
<Seveas> not from me, but there's three more people to convince (who are no doubt reading your wikipage, launchpad profile etc. right now)
<phanatic> wow, huge amount of testimonials. totally +1, and keep up the great work!
<popey> I agree that your wiki page and launchpad profile are impressive
<forumsmatthew> definitely
<Kmos> we can also vote?
<Kmos> +1
<Kmos> :)
<popey> knome: no
<BUGabundo> Kmos: just members
<Seveas> Kmos, no, just the board members
<popey> er Kmos no
<Kmos> ah ok
<forumsmatthew> you can give an opinion, though
<Kmos> i'm sorry
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, popey: I see you're impressed but I really like to see a +1/-1 as a sign that you have no more questions
<popey> BUGabundo: an issue has been raised privately with me about your application, regarding your online activities towards other members of the community, specifically female ubuntu members. Do you have anything to say about that.
<BUGabundo> I don't like to just be a number on LP karma, so shoot any questions
<BUGabundo> popey: I had once a talk with maco
<BUGabundo> I think that is well now, if not, let her speak
<BUGabundo> any other member I know nothing about...
<forumsmatthew> that was my hesitation as well
<BUGabundo> I treat every one with best of heart
<popey> this is tricky, I've seen the posts in question, and I'm also uncomfortable with them
<BUGabundo> afigueiras is here and she can tell... she knows me offline too
<maco> from what others have said in #u-w it seems like pointing him to the "HowTo Encourage Women in Linux" did result in a change of attitude
<BUGabundo> popey: do you refer to that #-devel  time?
<forumsmatthew> maco, that is good to know
<BUGabundo> I admit I went way off topic that time
<popey> BUGabundo: its a comment on an ubuntu member blog
<popey> if maco is happy that attitudes have been adjusted then there's nothing more really I can say
<BUGabundo> amber  blog?
 * popey will go +1 
<popey> based on activity evidence on launchpad
<popey> and having seen you do good work in #ubuntu+1 myself
<popey> please keep that up.
<BUGabundo> not that it matter much, but there was a vote for me, from aflux from last meeting I was in
<forumsmatthew> I guess what I want is an assurance that you understand that we want women to feel valued and save in the ubuntu community.
<popey> indeed
<forumsmatthew> From your work, I have the highest regard
<forumsmatthew> you have done a lot of good stuff and have some fabulous recommendations
<BUGabundo> forumsmatthew: as I said before. I treat any one, from old devs, to new user alike
<BUGabundo> I give Free formation at my univ, and I get both man and woman, and I don't prefer one to the other
<popey> Seveas: is that everyone?
<Seveas> No +1 yest from forumsmatthew
<popey> ah, sorry.
<forumsmatthew> okay, I'll give a +1 and a gentle, but real request to please keep in mind how your manner of addressing women may make them feel--
<Seveas> I join forumsmatthew in that
<popey> Agreed.
<popey> Keep up the great work BUGabundo !
<Seveas> BUGabundo, welcome aboard the Ubuntu ship, keep up the good work!
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, BUGabundo
<popey> Congrats!
<Kmos> congratz BUGabundo
<BUGabundo> thanks everyone
<Seveas> Kmos, *now* it's your turn
<kklimonda> gratz BUGabundo :)
<forumsmatthew> congratulations
<BslBryan> Congratulations, BUGabundo. :-)
<BUGabundo> kklimonda: charlie-tca thanks guys!
<Kmos> Seveas: ok :) let's go on
<BUGabundo> good luck Kmos
<Kmos> BUGabundo: thank you
<Kmos> I'm Marco Rodrigues and I was born at Leverkusen - Germany. Currently I live Portugal and I've been an Ubuntu Fan / Promoter / Contributor since Breezy release.
<Kmos> I've done the icon for computer janitor (computer-janitor-gtk package), because I like to do some artwork sometimes, but most programming.
<Seveas> LP is wonky today :/
<Kmos> I participate currently in Debian and have some problems long time ago with my MOTU application and some MOTU members because I didn't like to wait much (times are different now and I learned a lot from these days).
<ScottK> That's not exactly it.
<Kmos> Now I want to go smoothly with it, but for now I just want to be a simple Ubuntu member.
<ScottK> His involvement in MOTU was disruptive and destructive.
<Seveas> the testimonials on your wikipage have not been updated since that period, leading me to think that not much has changed
<Kmos> and learn more from MOTU community before try it again
<ScottK> Sufficiently so that he is (AFAIK) the only person ever to be asked not to contribute to Ubuntu development.
<forumsmatthew> wow
<BUGabundo> wow
<Kmos> ScottK: exactly, and asked by core-dev and others motu's to try again
<ScottK> Kmos: Who and where's the record of this?
<rockstar> In defense of Kmos, he's been spearheading the packaging of an upstream app that I work on, and has been quite helpful.  I'm sure that, with some guidance, he could be a great asset.
<Seveas> Kmos, I know ScottK may be overreacting here but I definitely need to see more evidence of good behavior before considering your application
<Kmos> ScottK: you could ask dholbach and persia
<ScottK> Kmos: You also tried and got caught trying to evade the ban by making new accounts in LP
<ScottK> I'm not reacting, I'm describing.
<Kmos> ScottK: you need to prove that
<Seveas> Kmos, also, if you are going to contributing mostly in packaging-land you really must go the MOTU route to membership. Given your history in packaging-land, we would be *very* uncomfortable approving you
<Kmos> because I didn't create anything until today
<nixternal> hi
<ScottK> Kmos: The MOTU Council already proved it to my satisfaction
<Seveas> Kmos, no, I'm afraid it is you who will need to prove improvement before being accepted back in the development community
<forumsmatthew> Seveas, agreed
<Kmos> Seveas: I just want to be a simple ubuntu member
<forumsmatthew> I'm going to have to -1
<Kmos> Seveas: if I can't be that, I also can never be accepted in MOTU
<Seveas> Kmos, then I want to see on  your wiipage how you contribute to Ubuntu outside development-land, there is no evidence whatsoever on such activities
<popey> based on testimonials, I'm -1
<Seveas> phanatic, ?
<Kmos> Seveas: debian has that evidences
<Kmos> but I'm ok with it
<Kmos> ScottK: you need to tell me that proves about my second LP account.
<Seveas> Kmos, I heard the debian-games team also banned you from their team, so saying that you contribute to debian sounds fishy to me.
<Kmos> Seveas: my launchpad account has that evidences too
<ScottK> Kmos: It was the conclusion of the MOTU Council that you had one.  It's between you and them if they were wrong.  I know who's word I accept.
<phanatic> if i remember well, we already discussed your membership application here, and nothing has really changed, so i'm also -1
<nixternal> I am a member of the MC, as well as geser. Kmos I would prefer we did not bring up dirty laundry at this time
<Kmos> Seveas: yes.. that was in the same time of MOTU application
<Seveas> Anyway, based on all this, I am definitely -1. You will need to show and document a lot of improvement before being accepted as member. If you don't want to go the motu route, you will also need to show non-packaging activity.
<Kmos> Seveas: I'm not doing any ubuntu development, so no packaging activity
<Seveas> And if I counted correct that's 4 times -1, so we will need to move on to the next candidate
<forumsmatthew> agreed, who's next?
<Kmos> ok
<Seveas> primes2h, you're up!
<primes2h> My name is Sergio Zanchetta and I started using Ubuntu in the Breezy Badger 5.10 release.
<primes2h> I signed up in Launchpad on June 2006 and my main contribution since then is reporting and triaging bugs, doing translations and some helping work in "Answers".
<primes2h> I usually focus on package translations as well as Ubuntu/Xubuntu documentation and Package Descriptions translations/review.
<primes2h> About bugs, among other things, I helped kernel team triaging/closing out EOL release kernel bugs (all the Edgy and Gusty ones, some Feisty one).
<primes2h> In general I help reporting/triaging bugs, find duplicates etc...
 * zaafouri is here
<primes2h> In my wiki page you can find all the links about the work I do for Ubuntu, included some patches I provided for Jaunty and other things I'm doing.
<Seveas> anyone here to cheer for primes2h ?
<primes2h> In that page you can find some testimonials too.
<Seveas> zaafouri, damn. Am I blind or did you show up in the last few minutes?
<Seveas> primes2h, I know, but live cheers are more fun :)
<forumsmatthew> primes2h, you have wonderful testimonials on your page
<primes2h> There is DktrKranz
<forumsmatthew> good karma, too
<charlie-tca> I can vouch for bug triage work.
<forumsmatthew> translations, bug stuff
<DktrKranz> I met primes2h personally, he's a very active contributor in translation and documentation. He recently gained bugcontrol status and helped closing gutsy bugs. A plus one for me
<charlie-tca> primes2h does work hard at triaging and clearing up old stuff
<forumsmatthew> I'm happy to +1 based on what I am reading (thanks also to the two of you giving live cheers)
<Seveas> yeah, karma (and logs, yay one can now see further in the past on launchpad!) and cheers look good
<Seveas> +1
<popey> Agreed, +1 for great work, and testimonials
<phanatic> i have to rely on the testimonials, because i cannot reach w.u.c and launchpad thanks to my provider. +1, welcome!
<Seveas> oh great. Not only is launchpad going wonky intermittently, now the wiki is spewing 503 errors
<Seveas> primes2h, that's 4 times +1 for you, welcome aboard!
<Seveas> congrats
<forumsmatthew> I was nowhere near the wiki server
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, primes2h
<zaafouri> primes2h, congrats =)
<forumsmatthew> congratulations, primes2h
<DktrKranz> congrats primes2h :)
<maco> Seveas: are you using edge or normal? maybe non-edge would work? that's what's being said on the lp-uses list
<primes2h> Thank you very much indeed
<primes2h> Thank you all
<Seveas> zaafouri, you're up now, sorry for missing you earlier. Please introduce yourself while the wiki is being unf*ked
<primes2h> :-)
<Seveas> maco, normal. edge breaks too often for me
<zaafouri> Thank you
<zaafouri> I'm Chaker ZAAFOURI, I'm 28 year old.
<zaafouri> I'm from Tunisia and  I'm manager and co-founder of FOSS startup
<zaafouri> I'm Linux User since 1997, and I'm GNU/Linux sysadmin since 2003
<zaafouri> I start working with Ubuntu since 2005
<zaafouri> I'm an active member of Tunisian LocoTeam since last November
<zaafouri> With LocoTeam, I migrate some universities to GNU/Linux Ubuntu
<zaafouri> I introduce SMB solutions based on GNU/Linux Ubuntu
<zaafouri> I've done many workshops in engineering school aroud GNU/Linux Ubuntu LTS server (LAMP, CMS, CRM, VoIP, ZCS, ...)
<zaafouri> and I'm Volunteer FOSS & GNU/Linux Tutor in Eltaller NGO
<zaafouri> You can see my wiki page for more details
<Seveas> zaafouri, actully, we can't as the wiki is down :/
<nizarus> hello, I m a tunisian ubuntu member and I m the LoCo contact of the tunisian loco team, I m here to support zaafouri membership
<forumsmatthew> unfortunately the wiki isn't loading for me
<Seveas> nizarus, excellent! Can you tell us a bit about him?
<Seveas> ooh, I have wiki!
<knome> >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/zaafouriwiki
<Seveas> c/p'ed to http://paste.ubuntu.com/170961/
<nizarus> Seveas, in fiew words : volontarism, and devotion to FOSS and ubuntu causes
<Seveas> zaafouri, how did ENIG 9.05 go?
<forumsmatthew> saafi, ana chabat. kulshi li shuft mezyan. (kunt saken fi al maghrib)
<forumsmatthew> I'm happy with what I have seen
<zaafouri> Excellent, there were presentations , install party and workshop
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, nope, rot13 doesn't make that any more understandable. Would you mind translating that?
<forumsmatthew> "I'm happy with what I have seen"
<zaafouri> the students likes ubuntu and many of them migrate to 100% ubuntu on theur laptop =)
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, ah.
<popey> wow, thats a lot of advocacy going on there!
<nizarus> forumsmatthew, you have to improve your arabic more :)
<forumsmatthew> I'm not sure how different Tunisian is from Moroccan Arabic
<Seveas> I'm also very happy with what I see
<forumsmatthew> some say Moroccans don't speak Arabic
<Seveas> how big is the tunisian locoteam?
<forumsmatthew> nizarus, lol
<zaafouri> more than 200
<zaafouri> =)
<popey> that's a +1 from me, I'm impressed with the levels of advocacy!
<phanatic> wow, that's amazing
<nizarus> Seveas, we are arround 200 in LP, more then 500 in the mailing list
<forumsmatthew> I implied it, here is my official +1
<Seveas> +1 from me
<phanatic> +1
<Seveas> that's +4, congratulations!
<nizarus> ÙØ¨Ø±ÙÙ zaafouri
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, zaafouri
<forumsmatthew> congratulations!
<forumsmatthew> mabrook!
<zaafouri> =) thank you  very much
<BslBryan> Congratulations!
<zaafouri> =)))
<Seveas> BslBryan, you're up next (and last, unless I missed *another* one)
<nizarus> zaafouri, alf mabrouk (1000 congrat)
<hanen> zaafouri mabrouk :D
<popey> I love looking at arabic on my screen
<BslBryan> Firstly, thank you for hearing me today.  :-)
 * Mean-Machine is here to cheer for czajkowski, but it looks like she won't be able to attend tonite. apologies on her behalf
<popey> can't understand a single letter, just looks beautiful
<BslBryan> Ubuntu is my primary operating system, and has been for over a year.
<BslBryan>  I have had prior experience with other Linux operating systems, as well, such as Fedora Core 8 -10.
<Seveas> ah, not last. joskulj joined during the meeting as well
<BslBryan> Ah, okay.
<Seveas> BslBryan, but go ahead
<BslBryan> All right. :-)
<BslBryan> I haven't done much work in terms of Launchpad, but on the Ubuntu forums I am quite active.
<BslBryan> For those who haven't seen my wiki page, I have helped numerous people with beginning to advanced problems, providing advice, workarounds, and solutions.
<BslBryan> I have also contributed in the way of art.  I have started up a GUI customization project, Infinity, but other than that I am part of no official project.
<BslBryan> It could be very simple for me to join numerous projects, however, as a Spanish/English translator.
<BslBryan> Most of what I have contributed so far has been available exclusively on the forums, but Launchpad will be of great immediate future use.
<BslBryan> As you can see, I have no testimonials on my wiki page.
<BslBryan> I believe that the reason for this is because I am relatively new to all of these accounts (Launchpad, and even the forums).
<BslBryan> My argument is that, although I have only recently started sharing my help, I have already helped a large amount of people in need.
<forumsmatthew> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=797010
<BslBryan> Also, if you're wondering why I simply didn't post a call for testimonials on the forums, considering that's where my work has been shared so far, I did.
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, thanks
<forumsmatthew> I see you joined the forums two months ago
<BslBryan> It's just that one day I might like to be a member of the forum's staff, perhaps, and so must not break the rules, (such as posting a call for testimonials in the "General Help" section.) therefore I posted in an off-topic section, which nobody really paid attention to. :-)
<BslBryan> Yes.
<BslBryan> Please, view my statistics.
<forumsmatthew> http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=59341241 for his recent posts
<Seveas> BslBryan, for ubuntu membership we require a significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and/or its community. 294 posts on the forums and no testimonials from other community members doesn't cut it for me.
<BslBryan> I understand.
<BslBryan> Before a -1, however/
<BslBryan> may I argue a certain point?
<popey> urlfail forumsmatthew
<forumsmatthew> I'm going to have to agree. I think you are off to a good start, but that's what it is
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, vbulletin says no matches
<forumsmatthew> sorry, popey
<Seveas> BslBryan, sure go ahead
<BslBryan> Thank you. :-)
<BslBryan> As I've said, I am not new to the Ubuntu community.  I am only new to online advocacy.
<forumsmatthew> from his member page on the forums, click the "statistics" tab
<Seveas> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1155488
<Seveas> spamming to get votes?
<BslBryan> My, even initial, forum postings show a broad knowledge of Ubuntu, as well as UNIX.
<BslBryan> Read the post, please?
<BslBryan> Also, it is off-topic.
<BslBryan> I have successfully managed to switch members of my high school (I graduated this year) to Ubuntu, as well as my school's library.
<forumsmatthew> I see knowledge, helpfulness, but not (yet) a sustained presence or contribution. I see a good start
<BslBryan> I am very eager to help, and in two months I have done a lot.
<BslBryan> I believe, anyway. :-)
<BslBryan> Please view my wiki page if you haven't already?
<Seveas> BslBryan, still, I don't really like such actions. Also, random people shouting means a lot less than known and recognized ubuntu members giving a testimonial. I think that if you continue what you do now (helping people, awesome!), the forum mods will notice you and will leave a testimonial on your wikipage for the next attempt. Please do come back in a few more months.
<forumsmatthew> I'm going to recommend spending some more time in the Ubuntu community, including the forums, but not necessarily limited to that venue--join a team or two and participate in a project. Do something with other people
<BslBryan> Certainly.
<Seveas> BslBryan, I don't question the quality of your contibution, just the duration :)
<BslBryan> Of course. :-)
<forumsmatthew> I think you have promise
<Seveas> -1, but no rejection
<BslBryan> Thank you, Seveas. :-)  I will come back soon.
<forumsmatthew> but you aren't quite ready. Please do come back later
<popey> -1 for the same reasons, keep up the good work BslBryan !
<forumsmatthew> -1 for now
<Seveas> see you in a few months BslBryan
<Seveas> joskulj, you're up
<BslBryan> Thanks, everyone.  I'll see you all then.
<joskulj> sorry for being so late
<joskulj> I am Jochen Skulj from Germany and I'm a translator.
<joskulj> I started working with Rosetta in 2005, but in the beginning it was rather confusing for me, since I didn't know where to start and I didn't recieve much feedback if my translations were ok. In 2006 I also joined the German GNOMWE Translation Team where translations where checked via mailing list. Later on, in 2008 I re-joined ubuntu-l10-de. We then established a kind of ToDo-List as a central page for coordination, descri
<Seveas> Impressive karma
<joskulj> thank you
<Seveas> But I know the germans are one of the best organized LoCoteams, which is why I think that only one testimonial on our wikipage is a bit weak
<Seveas> given that you mention you organize the translation team, I would like to hear from some of the translators what they think about that
<joskulj> a lot of the people I work with are no ubuntu members
<joskulj> therefrore I have no testimonails
<Seveas> "Ich persÃ¶nlich habe mir immer schon eine AltGr-Taste auf der linken Seite gewÃ¼nscht," <--- Awesome idea, I am definitely going to copy that
<joskulj> but on
<joskulj> so I just have one testimonial#
<joskulj> sorry for being a little bit slowq
<Seveas> I think I am going for a -0, I like what I see very much but I want one or two more testimonials about your work.
<Seveas> but I'm open for arguments as to why this would be a wrong vote :)
<Seveas> phanatic, popey, forumsmatthew?
<forumsmatthew> I can tell that you have done a lot of work, but it isn't the sort of work that I am qualified to judge. I don't speak German. If there were a couple more people from the German Translation Team who could give even a simple testimonial, I think you would be accepted easily
<forumsmatthew> As it is, I"m hesitant, and that is why
<joskulj> My problem is that none of the current translators are ubuntu members
<popey> they dont necessarily need to be
<forumsmatthew> even so, if they are active and can speak on your behalf, that would be useful
<Seveas> joskulj, you don't have contact with other parts of the german locoteam or the wider community?
<forumsmatthew> Hmm. I want to say "yes," but I just can't get past my desire for a little bit more support from others who know you and your work
<joskulj> yes, I have contact to the locoteam and juliux even promised me a testimonial
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, my feeling exactly
<forumsmatthew> is there anyone here who knows joskulj ?
<joskulj> ok, I can understand your argument
<phanatic> the next meeting should be in 3 weeks, so it's pretty soon, but still enough time for you to get those testimonials
<forumsmatthew> Okay, I need to say -0 for now, with the request that you get some testimonials and come back
<joskulj> smurf, do you
<popey> Agreed. +0 from me
<forumsmatthew> I would like to approve you
<forumsmatthew> so please do come back
<phanatic> that was a +0 actually :)
<Seveas> joskulj, I hope you're not disappointed. Please do get those testimonials from juliux and from a few translators sorted and come back on the next meeting
<Seveas> Anyone who want to discuss something else related to the emea membership board?
<joskulj> can everyone make testimonials?
<knome> Seveas, looks like there is really big problems also on the candidate side on showing up.
<knome> Seveas, maybe we/you could emphasize even more on that people need to be well prepared and maybe list some ideas how they could do it.
<Seveas> joskulj, yes. But testimonials from people we know usually (at least for me) weigh heavier. So the one testimonial from sebastian did a lot, but just not enough
<popey> Seveas: lets book the next one
<Seveas> knome, yeah, I'm planning to write some text on that subject
<popey> I am on holiday for the next two weeks so may or may not have access (taking laptop)
<popey> I would suggest we book 2 weeks today, same time
<joskulj> ok, thanks.
<knome> Seveas, feel free to contact if you need some subjective comments from the candidate side :)
<Seveas> popey, ok
<knome> Seveas, (not necessarily negative-only ;>)
<Seveas> may 26 ok for you phanatic forumsmatthew ?
<forumsmatthew> I will be traveling that week on a family vacation, so I won't be available
<Seveas> I'll do all secretarial bits (summary, mail CC, update wiki) tomorrow. LP dance has been done
<phanatic> Seveas: i'll be in barcelona then, so i'm sure if i can make it
<Seveas> hmm
<forumsmatthew> Seveas, you rock
<Seveas> june 2nd ok?
<phanatic> Seveas: thank you for that
<popey> june 2 is good for me
<phanatic> for me too
<forumsmatthew> me too
<Seveas> ok, june 2nd it is, I hope pricey and stgraber will be able to make it as well
<hanen> hello guys
<Seveas> meeting over.
<Seveas> See you all in 3 weeks!
<hanen> may I ask a question
<Seveas> sure
<hanen> how did u get elected for this task?
<forumsmatthew> I have to run. Bye, all
<Seveas> We paid Â£1000 each
<Seveas> :P
<popey> WHAT!?
<popey> I paid 2000!
<knome> Seveas, you mean you *got paid* ?:P
<hanen> no seriuosly :)
<popey> seriously, there was a vote
<hanen> from whom?
<Seveas> hanen, there was a vote among all members.
<hanen> all members?
<Mamarok> Ubuntu members, hanen
<Seveas> no 'from whom'. The CC chose a few people and all members had a yes/no vote on each candidate
<hanen> oook nice, and this election is made once a year?
<zaafouri> hanen congrats =)
<hanen> zaafouri for what?
<zaafouri> I wanna see u soon an ubuntu member
<zaafouri> =)
<hanen> zaafouri inshallah Sir :)
<Seveas> hanen, no. Before we got elected, the community council did this task. We have been doing this job for less than a year and I don't know when we will be 'replaced'
<popey> has it been less than a year!?
<popey> seems like 5
<Seveas> yeah, this shit eats you alive
<Seveas> I've done so many CC meetings it hurts
<ajmitch> popey: everything's a bit hazy still?
<hanen> Seveas well at least ure making some gud friendship across :)
<Seveas> hanen, yes. The people in the ubuntu community are great :)
<popey> ahhh memories
<popey> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonobacon/493753419/in/photostream/
<ajmitch> it burnssss
<hanen> Seveas ya even ur pt of view regarding women involvment, that was truly impressive
<popey> :)
<Seveas> popey, MY EYES ARE BLEEDING
<popey> :)
<Seveas> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonobacon/493731404/in/photostream/ suicide bacon?
<Seveas> anyway, back to hacking on django apps
<Seveas> cya
<popey> see you!
<hanen> thanks for the answer :)
 * ajmitch hopefully escaped the camera most of the time
<ajmitch> iirc those injuries were due to an orange tree?
<Seveas> yeah
<Seveas> or a duck (I pity the fowl!)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-13
 * zaafouri is away (brb =))
<nhandler> ubuntu-tn: Could you please disable your away script?
 * zaafouri is away (brb =))
<Hobbsee> ubuntu-tn: when are you going to remove that message?
<evand> hi
<liw> yeehaa
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:11. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<james_w> hi
<Keybuk> howdy
<doko> hi
<mterry> Hello!
<cjwatson_> argh, sorry I'm late, got held up on the school run
<robbiew> hey mterry
<robbiew> welcome to the party
<mterry> :)
<robbiew> cjwatson: not late
<james_w> hi mterry
<robbiew> I had to start late...conflicting meeting earlier
<cjwatson> oh, you delayed the start, perfect then
<robbiew> mvo, persia, and slangasek are on vacation today
<TheMuso> yy! Means I'll hopefully get to bed that much sooner. :p
<robbiew> ;)
<TheMuso> yay even
<Keybuk> robbiew: persia?
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Karmic Alpha 1
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Alpha 1
<cjwatson> alpha 1 is being ... fun
<robbiew> Keybuk: sorry, I forget muharem's handle
<dholbach> robbiew: al- maisan
<cjwatson> I think we may just manage to squeak in inside the deadline
<robbiew> duh...sorry
<robbiew> persia is emmet
<robbiew> :/
 * dholbach hugs robbiew
<Keybuk> ;)
<cjwatson> it's been suffering from size problems, and a number of the usual early-in-the-release teething problems
 * TheMuso will test studio images tomorrow, or should I say later today, in a VM.
<cjwatson> notably, it isn't going to have live CDs
<robbiew> cjwatson: well...it's Thursday somewhere in the world
<robbiew> ;)
<ogra> and no kernel on armel ...
<cjwatson> pitti's been doing a lot of work to get it in shape
<liw> it's going to be Thursday for a long time on Saturn, isn't it?
 * robbiew hugs pitti
<cjwatson> right, and armel is screwed, ran into an ld segfault with the most recent kernel build
<cjwatson> I'm not up to date with the status on that
<ogra> i think doko has an idea what to do
<ogra> i collected data the whole day
<doko> testing a fix
<ogra> Bug #375991 for anyone intrested
 * robbiew admits that with UDS and PDRs...and AllHands I've been embarrassingly clueless about Alpha 1 status
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/375991/+text)
 * mterry pats ubottu
 * liw admits that what with being an idiot he's clueless about Alpha 1 status
<robbiew> hi al-maisan...realized you are NOT on vacation today :P
<Keybuk> robbiew: Alpha 1 Status is... "Everything Will Be Ok"
 * robbiew types in wrong window
<ogra> for alpha 2
<ogra> :)
<robbiew> heh
<Keybuk> ogra: <g>
<cjwatson> I've been looking at unionfs-fuse as a possible live CD option
<evand> oo
<cjwatson> on one level it scares the bejesus out of me
<robbiew> lol
<ogra> cjwatson, did you look at the devicemapper thing fedora uses ?
<cjwatson> on another level it seems like a good way to work around the fact that union filesystems scare the bejesus out of kernel developers :-)
<cjwatson> ogra: yes, we looked at that, the BIG BIG BIG downside is that there's no way to make it rsyncable
<ogra> ah
<cjwatson> I can only assume Fedora don't care since lots of them work in offices with good bandwidth
<Keybuk> like
<Keybuk> utterly
<Keybuk> not
<TheMuso> heh
<evand> that was quite hilarious
<cjwatson> the choices with their approach are:
<ogra> is there any chance we'll see aufs/unionfs coming back ?
<cjwatson> * gzip (which doesn't fit)
<Keybuk> a change to /etc/issue, recompressed, resulted in every single byte of the compressed filesystem changing
<cjwatson> * lzma (which doesn't rsync)
<cjwatson> ogra: I'm not sure
<cjwatson> that's why I'm looking at unionfs-fuse :-)
 * ogra hopes so
<ogra> else ltsp will need a serious rewrite
<Keybuk> Fedora don't test their CDs, so it's never really been a problem with them
<ogra> though i can steal from you :)
<TheMuso> lol
<cjwatson> it's not working right now, but I'm getting the sense of "nearly there, if only I can find the little bugs that completely break it"
<cjwatson> I mean, the filesystem mounts fine
<TheMuso> cjwatson: For some context, whats up with aufs/whatever we were using in the kernel to do this?
<cjwatson> problem is that as soon as we do mount -n -o move /cdrom /root/cdrom it completely and utterly falls over
<cjwatson> TheMuso: it's been repeatedly refused for merge upstream, and doesn't apply to our current kernel
<Keybuk> TheMuso: rejected upstream, maintainer/author has vanished, doesn't even apply to the current kernel version, etc.
<TheMuso> Right.
<cjwatson> we used to use unionfs and I think that's even worse
<TheMuso> Userspace does certainly sound like an option then.
<ogra> its just a hell of a transition on all fronts
<cjwatson> opensuse has a "clicfs" container that lets you wrap compression around more or less an arbitrary filesystem, but that has the same problems as the fedora approach
<liw> is lzma inherently un-rsyncably?
<cjwatson> ogra: the casper change is actually really small, I think
<Keybuk> liw: the appropriate phrase is "lzma and rsync are mortal enemies"
<cjwatson> liw: yes, it arises from its large block size which is where it gets its excellent compression ratios
<liw> ook
<cjwatson> I could be wrong, but I don't *think* it's a fixable property
<Keybuk> you could have rsync unlzma it at one end, transfer the uncompressed, and then re-compress on the other end
<Keybuk> but the re-compression alone takes longer than just "wget" on the image
<Keybuk> except possibly on a 14400 baud modem
<robbiew> heh
<cjwatson> so far, TBH, unionfs-fuse is the only thing I've seen that's even slightly viable - I'm more than open to other suggestions
<Keybuk> cjwatson: RH are working on an interesting alternate approach to union filesystems
<Keybuk> but it's a long way off if we didn't help
<cjwatson> oh?
<Keybuk> doing it at the VFS layer
<Keybuk> mount --union basically
<cjwatson> ah, right
<jjohansen> union mounts aren't going in anytime soon
<cjwatson> we'd need to keep aufs on life support for some time if that were the case
<Keybuk> jjohansen: right, I just said that ;P
<jjohansen> Keybuk: yeah, I just meant it more from a likely never angle
<liw> I asked Lasse Collin (LZMA Utils upstream) about lzma+rsync: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=3272163&forum_id=708858 was his response
<robbiew> okay...moving on
<robbiew> [TOPIC] UDS
<MootBot> New Topic:  UDS
<cjwatson> liw: hmm, interesting that it's not a "no, never" kind of thing
<cjwatson> thanks for that
<robbiew> has everyone gotten a chance to see the schedule?
<robbiew> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/foundations-a/ http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/foundations-b/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/foundations-a/ http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/foundations-b/
<TheMuso> Haven't looked at since last week, so nothing thats changed recently.
 * evand wants to be in too many rooms at the same time :(
<liw> Larhzu is Lasse Collin
<Larhzu> Hey
<robbiew> I will be going through our sessions, to be sure I have someone to lead the discussion
<robbiew> as I cannot with two rooms going at once
<robbiew> I think I'll shoot an email out with all the sessions and who I think should lead
<robbiew> then go from there
<liw> Larhzu, we _just_ moved to the next topic, but I'm sure cjwatson would be interested in your further comments about lzma+rsync; I forwarded the URL gave me already
<Larhzu> liw mentioned something about compressing live-CD with LZMA and keeping small changes rsyncable. Is the live-CD compressed with Squashfs or are there normal compressed .deb files or what?
<robbiew> I got an email from Kees requesting "representation" in a few security team sessions
<cjwatson> Larhzu: can we move to #ubuntu-devel?
<Larhzu> cjwatson: Sure
<cjwatson> thanks
<robbiew> I will read over them and find the appropriate folks
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AllHands
<MootBot> New Topic:  AllHands
<robbiew> For those doing presentations...deadline is this Friday
 * robbiew needs to start his :/
<robbiew> not much else to say there
<liw> for once I'm ahead of schedule
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Performance Reviews
<MootBot> New Topic:  Performance Reviews
<robbiew> Everyone should be done with 360s
<robbiew> managers are waiting on the go ahead to provide raise recommendations
<robbiew> the deadline for review discussions is June 26th
<robbiew> I don't think I will have the bandwidth to do any until after UDS
<robbiew> though I'd prefer to do it face-to-face
<robbiew> just not sure how feasible that will be
<robbiew> I guess I can "aim high"
<robbiew> any questions about reviews?
<robbiew> guess not
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Team changes
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team changes
<robbiew> so...we have mterry and al-maisan officially :D
<robbiew> mterry for 6months...and al-maisan for 3
 * mterry waves
<al-maisan> hello :)
<Keybuk> welcome! :)
<robbiew> so he misses the "awesome" release sprint
<liw> welcome
<robbiew> doko is sadly rotating out starting after UDS
<robbiew> :(
<cjwatson> welcome to you both
<TheMuso> Welcome gys.
<robbiew> but will be available for 20% of his time
<TheMuso> guys
<al-maisan> thanks :)
<doko> and he avoid being hurt by Keybuk at the sprint ...
<cjwatson> doko will be missed; but also will be back (yay)
<TheMuso> gah its late. :p
 * mterry will do his best doko impression for 6 months
<robbiew> mterry heh
<robbiew> that's a hefty task
<evand> hi
<robbiew> sadly, TheMuso will be moving to desktop :(
<robbiew> with the new Audio Experience Architect for DX coming
<robbiew> just made more sense to have audio in the desktop team
<TheMuso> Fair enough.
<TheMuso> As I said to robbiew the other day, I'm not fussed either way.
 * robbiew also thinks accessibility will benefit from this move as well
<TheMuso> a11y also plays a big part in desktop also.
<robbiew> so...that will leave dmraid to someone else
<robbiew> i'm sure TheMuso heartbroken over that :P
<TheMuso> robbiew: Is there anyone else who can take it up in the short term?
<robbiew> any volunteers?
<Keybuk> sounds like that belongs on the server team ;)
<TheMuso> robbiew: I'm not, bt its a question of who knows it/has the hardware, etc.
<robbiew> Keybuk: nice try
<robbiew> TheMuso: do you have the hardware?
<TheMuso> robbiew: Yes.
<liw> is dmraid not in the kernel?
<robbiew> ah...is it yours? or Canonical's
 * robbiew thinking we could ship it
<TheMuso> Its a coincidence, but yes
<TheMuso> robbiew: Its mine, its my primary desktop workstation.
<robbiew> damn :/
<TheMuso> robbiew: All thats needed is a recent intel chipset motherboard with an intel ICH/AHCI controller.
<liw> remind me, does dmraid refer to the cheap raid chips on most motherboard these days?
<TheMuso> liw: Yes.
<robbiew> sounds like a volunteer to me...thanks liw!
<robbiew> :P
<cjwatson> liw: dmraid has (fairly significant) userspace pieces too
<TheMuso> Its nothing hardware related, its all software. The BIOS writes metadata to the disks, and its all managed by dmraid
<liw> robbiew, I can barely get the kernel to recognize my hard disks as it is :P
<TheMuso> robbiew: thanks for taking it off my hands. I will help with testing if its ever needed however.
<robbiew> TheMuso: thanks for taking audio with you :P
<robbiew> lol
<TheMuso> I don't know were I'd be without dtchen.
<robbiew> we don't have to sort out the dmraid issue now...but will need to by UDS
<TheMuso> Right.
 * doko hands over the a11y and pulseaudio openjdk parts
<robbiew> heh
<TheMuso> doko: Sure I can do java-access-bridge if thats any help.
<robbiew> that reminds me..doko will be providing a list of things he will NOT be doing this cycle
<robbiew> we will need to assign these work items within the team
<robbiew> so it's going to be an interesting release :D
 * robbiew will work on growing the team...at least a warm body to backfill TheMuso
<robbiew> ;)
<TheMuso> heh
<robbiew> [TOPIC]AOB/Good News?
<MootBot> New Topic: AOB/Good News?
<al-maisan> AOB?
<robbiew> sorry
<robbiew> Any Other Business
<al-maisan> ah :)
<TheMuso> Yes, I may be attending meetings at a more suitable time thanks to my team move. :p
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> okay...thanks all
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:46.
<liw> thanks
<robbiew> see ya next week!
<al-maisan> thanks!
<TheMuso> Thanks folks, and see ou all at all-hands.
 * TheMuso -> bed
<evand> thanks!
<heno> hey everyone
<pedro_> hola!
<bdmurray> Hi
<fader> Howdy
<ogasawara> hi
<solarius> hello!
 * charlie-tca waves
<ara> hi!
<heno> sbeattie: here?
<heno> eeejay: ?
<sbeattie> hey
<davmor2> hello
<heno> let's start
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:03. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> agenda as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> We had a Compiz based hug day last Thursday http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090507
<pedro_> around 41 bug were hugged
<pedro_> Thanks a lot to showard314, jgoguen, kklimonda and bdmurray who made a great job during it
<mgunes> hi all
<pedro_> Tomorrow, we're having a New bugs without a package hug day: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090514
<pedro_> as soon as we announced it people started to work on the task, thanks you folks!
<heno> great, thank you
<eeejay> hey
<pedro_> so i'm just expecting to have a really rocking hug day tomorrow ;-)
<heno> [TOPIC] New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<bdmurray> This week we had an application from Geir Ove Myhr who has been working on xserver-xorg-video-intel bugs and was heartily endorse by Bryce Harrington.
<bdmurray> Subsequently, his membership was approved.
<heno> sounds great
<bdmurray> He has also added himself to the mentors list which is good!
<heno> speaking of bug-control ...
<heno> I'd like to request provisional membership for plars who is currently working on migrating unr bugs
<bdmurray> provisional?
<heno> He should apply in the proper way, but needs access now for this task
<heno> I know I have the LP powers to grant that but I want to check with this meeting and the bugmaster :)
<bdmurray> He needs access to private bugs or other statuses?
<plars> just to be able to match the importance of the bug I'm migrating to, to the one it came from
<heno> He works for Canonical on the mobile QA team and is moving unr project bugs to Ubuntu and needs to set importances
<bdmurray> oh right, you are moving bugs from a project to Ubuntu?
<heno> I would suggest a 2-3 week membership with the understanding that it will only be used for this
<heno> in that time he should apply in the regular way
<heno> plars: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl
<heno> We've decided not to special case Canonical folks by just letting them in, which is why I'm asking us to consider the case here
<heno> bdmurray: do you have concerns?
<bdmurray> heno: Nope, sounds reasonable.  Until 6/3 then?
<heno> sounds good
<heno> any other bug-control news?
<bdmurray> plars: can you click the join team link at https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol? it'll make things a wee bit easier
<bdmurray> The ubuntu-core-doc (Ubuntu Documentation Committers) team was also added to bug control.
<plars> bdmurray: done
<bdmurray> It is a subset of the ubuntu doc team and is useful since their package(s)? are now tracking bugs in Ubuntu as opposed to a project
<heno> ok great
<heno> is their upload limited to doc packages by LP?
<heno> or can they upload kernels? :)
<bdmurray> They have bzr commit access to the documentation
<heno> makes sense
<heno> [TOPIC] Bug Squad had a meeting -- bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Squad had a meeting -- bdmurray
<bdmurray> andresmujica organized a Bug Squad meeting yesterday
<bdmurray> The minutes can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting/Minutes/2009-12-05
<heno> That's fantastic to see!
<bdmurray> The discussion was quite useful I thought and there will be a next meeting on June 9th
<mgunes> are bug squad meetings to be periodic?
<bdmurray> mgunes: It was decided the 2nd Tuesday of the month
<mgunes> bdmurray, cool, thanks
<bdmurray> Unless there becomes too much to talk about in which the frequency may be increased
<bdmurray> in which case
<heno> And it's essentially a bugsquad+control meeting, right? No need to have two I guess
<bdmurray> heno: that's correct
<heno> [TOPIC] UDS preparations -- heno
<MootBot> New Topic:  UDS preparations -- heno
<heno> the schedules are here http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/
<mgunes> I will be soliciting feedback about my tester weather report spec in the following days, initially from testers, about what kind of features and design they would find useful, and flesh out the spec a bit to pre-discussion state.
<heno> mgunes: sounds great
<heno> I'd encourage everyone to look at the specs and help write meeting agendas and use cases
<heno> I think schwuk was going to set up all the gobby documents ahead of time
<mgunes> heno, that would be great - we should make sure we have a predecided scheme for gobby document names to avoid chaos.
<heno> We also have plenty of space in Room B this time for break-out discussions
<ara> is anyone having the scroll left-right problem in summit.ubuntu.com
<ara> ?
<heno> we should go with gobby name == <prefix> + LP blueprint name
<ara> if you click on monday, the room b does not show up, but it does not have a scroll
<fader> ara: I don't get a scrollbar but I am able to scroll with arrow keys
<ara> fader: cool, thanks
<heno> I'm not seeing that problem
<charlie-tca> I get no scroll bars
<pedro_> i do get a scrollbar here
<heno> schwuk: we were just talking about setting up gobby documents
<davmor2> no scroll here on my big screen
<heno> we should populate them with wiki raw text of stub specs
<heno> and give them predictable names
<fader> (Ah, I do get scrollbars, but they're inside an iframe or something so they're kinda tough to find at first)
<heno> <heno> we should go with gobby name == <prefix> + LP blueprint name
<schwuk> heno: Most of the blueprints are prefixed with qa- anyway
<schwuk> But we could add uds- or karmic-
<mgunes> qa-udskarmic-<blueprint-name>?
<davmor2> qa-karmic team and version
<schwuk> Should we (I) create them all in advance, or shall we set them up on the day?
<heno> I'd prefer in advance and referenced on the wiki page
<heno> to reduce confusion
<schwuk> heno: then that's what I'll do.
<heno> then we just sync wiki->gobby when we start in case people have updated the wiki
<heno> schwuk: thanks!
<schwuk> Any more suggestions for a prefix, or shall we go with qa-karmic-<blueprintname>
<schwuk> Although that will duplicate the qa- bit.
<mgunes> right
<schwuk> e.g. qa-karmic-qa-extend-apport-coverage
<heno> works for me, that will get them grouped all under q
<ara> heno, bdmurray: could you change the links under summit.ubuntu.com to the LP blueprints?
<ara> (instead of the wiki spec)
<ara> it makes it easier to subscribe
<heno> schwuk: it does, but that's ok I think
<ara> because there are cases where the spec is a 404
<schwuk> ara the icon in the corner takes you to hte blueprint
<schwuk> ara: all the specs will be there by CoP tomorrow
<bdmurray> the naming scheme seems redundant to me fwiw
<heno> bdmurray: the two qa's?
<ara> schwuk: ok, thanks :)
<schwuk> bdmurray: agreed, but easier to c'n'p :)
<bdmurray> yeah, I'd rather karmic-qa-yada-yada
<heno> would we break everything if we renamed the actual LP entries?
<heno> that way we could have an exact  match
<schwuk> heno: no - I'd just have to redo links
<schwuk> but that's not a huge job
<heno> schwuk: can you follow that up
<schwuk> heno: sure
<heno> then we can have karmic-qa-yada-yada
<heno> schwuk: great, thanks
<heno> any other questions about UDS?
<heno> any other meeting topics?
<davmor2> I only have questions about meetings for the next 2 weeks.  Most of you will be fried so will these stop till after uds?
<bdmurray> Will there be a hug day the next 2 weeks?
<heno> I cannot promise to make it to this meeting next week, but if someone else volunteers to chair it ...
<heno> There is a Canonical event starting that day
<davmor2> heno: want most people be at all-hands?
<heno> so must of us will likely be unavailable
<davmor2> won't not want
<heno> right
<pedro_> bdmurray: not sure, will ask on the bugsquad mailing list if someone wants to organize it since we're going to be at allhands
<pedro_> and later uds
<mgunes> When are the Canonical people arriving for All Hands?
<davmor2> heno: I think it will be better to postpone till after uds then
<pedro_> bdmurray: also the next targets are update-manager/notifier and synaptic but I'd like to have mvo involved on that as well, so we might need another target for those weeks
<heno> ok, let's do that then
<davmor2> so next meeting will be 20090603
<heno> right
<davmor2> :)
<heno> what about hug days
<heno> ?
<heno> did we decide to postpone those too?
<pedro_> heno: I'm going to make a call for help on the bugsquad mailing list, if nobody is interesting on run it i guess we can postpone those
<heno> pedro_: sounds good
<heno> any other topics?
<heno> thanks everyone!
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:49.
<schwuk> thanks heno
<heno> see some of you next week and the week after!
<davmor2> thanks
<davmor2> yay
<fader> :)
<mgunes> thanks all
<pedro_> thanks you
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-14
<ricaxe>      /msg nickserv register <your-password> <your-email>
<ricaxe>      /msg nickserv register <0pt1m15ta> <ricaxexl@sapo.pt>
<persia> ricaxe, You might want to change your password
<ricaxe> ya
<ricaxe> .:D
<ricaxe> sorye
<ricaxe> i dont work with irc long time ago ...
<ricaxe> i was trying to joint to some team of ubuntu art work
<persia> So, who's here for the Java meeting?
<ttx> o/
<persia> I see we again have the attention of the plurality of the channel :)
<persia> I completely failed to prepare for today, so the wiki is probably out of date.
<ttx> Still seems valid to me :)
<persia> agenda is, as usual, at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<persia> says next meeting is 30th April :)
<ttx> yeah, right, but time is such a fuzzy dimension...
<persia> Roadmap needs a cleanup.  I propose we do another big call for participants, and modify the future roadmap as a result.
<ttx> yes.
<persia> OK.  I'll send out such an email.
<persia> Anyway robilad, slytherin, and ludovicc aren't here.  I was (again) useless.
<persia> ttx, Did you make any progress?  I saw the post about Contents.
<ttx> I proposed a training session for June
<ttx> didn't make the cut for May
<persia> That should still give us a bit of time.
<persia> Next up: Karmic Specs
<persia> I suggest we probably want to merge that into the Roadmap planning.
<ttx> yes, that's linked to it
<persia> OK.  Next up is other business.
<ttx> I have two Java-related UDS sessions / blueprints
<persia> Which ones?
<ttx> One about refactoring the giant eucalyptus-javadepos package into proper separate packages
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-euca-javadeps-refactoring
<ttx> the other one about how to reduce the number of dependencies needing to move to main if we want eucalyptus in main
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-eucalyptus-in-main
<ttx> In both cases they are of interest to Java packagers
<ScottK> How closely does Ubuntu Java work with Debian?
<ttx> ScottK: very closely. For example they work on packaging Spring and asked us for testing
<persia> ScottK, Very.  In fact, we try to do nothing :)
<ScottK> Excellent.
<ttx> unfortunately I failed in getting Debian-Java guys sponsored for UDS
<persia> Well, we do a fair bit of experimentation with OpenJDK, but lots of that is in close coordination with pkg-java.
<persia> We used to have some pkg-java people come to the meetings, but one went MIA, and the other got busy with other stuff.
<ttx> persia: I don't think we have other Java-oriented sessions at UDS ?
<persia> I don't think so.  There's usually one with Sun folk if they attend (at least for the past three).  Would be on the foundations track.
<ttx> doublechecking
<ttx> hhhm no. We could do an adhoc one if we can identify Java-oriented people on site
<ttx> there is the Eclipse talk
<persia> Oh goody.  That's a sore point that needs fixing.
<persia> (although things like SWT are oddly stuck for a number of packages)
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-karmic-eclipse-update
<ttx> persia: not "oddly", "Javaly"
 * ttx checks if he can make this one
<persia> ttx, No, oddly.  See, there's this embedded SWT in eclipse (and also a separate SWT in the archive), and many packages decided to depend on the embedded SWT, which was split out...
<ttx> hmm.. difficult
<persia> Indeed.
<persia> But soluable, even if just by supplying a versioned package.
<persia> Anyway, I've a couple other things:
<persia> 1) david_yu came by in #ubuntu-java earlier, and expressed a desire to help get stuff done for maven and jetty, but he's in UTC+8, and thinks this meeting happens too late.
<persia> What do you think about moving it a few hours earlier?
<ttx> persia: what time do you propose ?
<persia> Hrm.  Maybe 11:00 or so?
<ttx> I'd prefer avoiding the 1000-1200 slot if possible. Anything 0600-1000 1200-1700 is ok for me though
<persia> I'd be happy with 9:00, and suspect it would work for +8.  That mostly excludes the americas though.
<ttx> let's try it... it would work for Onkar as well
<persia> Sounds good.
<persia> Next up; meeting dates.  I'd prefer to skip the meeting during UDS, and I'd rather not have a big organisational meeting and then a two week gap, so I'd rather to the big call for people for th 4th of June.
<persia> Do you expect there's enough to discuss that we ought have one next week?
<ttx> ok
<ttx> persia: probably not
<ttx> I'll echo the June 4th call on my blog
<ttx> (when sent)
<persia> OK.  I'll try to get the mail out this weekend.
<persia> anything else?
<ttx> no.
<persia> meeting adjourned then :)
 * lool waves
 * persia wavers
 * davidm waves
<dyfet> waving?
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<GrueMaster> What timing.
<ogra_> moop
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090514
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090514
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<lool> no roll call?
<NCommander> lool, I've never done it before ...
 * lool pokes plars davidm and StevenK just in case
 * davidm ouch 
<ogra_> heh
<lool> paulliu
<lool> probably bad time for him
 * NCommander won't think lool's poke was capable of hurting people.
 * lool loads bug urls
<davidm> NCommander, continue please
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to investigate 338148
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to investigate 338148
<NCommander> c/o
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug
<GrueMaster> CO
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander and GrueMaster to debug #337809
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander and GrueMaster to debug #337809
<NCommander> co
<NCommander> [topic] StevenK to follow up with Tim on lpia kernel configuration
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK to follow up with Tim on lpia kernel configuration
<NCommander> No StevenK ...
<NCommander> so co
<davidm> I'm calling him now
<NCommander> Ok, I'll wait a minute
<davidm> He will join in a moment
<NCommander> k
<davidm> or so
<NCommander> I'll come back to when he returns
<NCommander> [topic] Outstanding bugs of interest
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding bugs of interest
<NCommander> There's been no progress on #299847, #338148, and #337809
<NCommander> lool, you have some bugs for us?
 * ogra_ notes that oo.o and linux are still building on armel
<lool> Can't open them that fast
<lool> I changed the references to bugs in the agenda to URLs
<lool> NCommander: where's the list of bugs again?
<ogra_> and in case people dont know yet, we are not able to build livecds due to lack of aufs/unionfs
<NCommander> lool, I've been using the roadmap
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
 * lool adds a link to roadmap on meeting page
<ogra_> there is one
<ogra_> at the top
<persia> On the agenda even :)
<lool> Oh, I didn't see it was added to the title bar, cool
<lool> Well I don't have bugs to discuss
<lool> But we could cover the lpia situation quickly
<lool> So basically the toolchain was setup to target atom, which implies sse3 and ssse3, and perhaps other features
<lool> Matthias will roll that back and go to pentium-m or i686 for now as a stop gap because the binaries don't run on the livefs builder
<StevenK> Well, they do run, they just SIGILL :-)
<lool> I propose we revisit this situation after UDS, when we have the occasion to discuss the fate of MID which is the only lpia image
<lool> We don't have a session on other lpia images, but if we target pure atom we will lack a livefs, so we must know whether that's an issue
<ogra_> wasnt there a topic to build UNR lpia ?
<persia> I'm not sure that most of those interested in MID are also interested in lpia these days.
<StevenK> Yeah, I think that's up for discussion
<persia> Most of the lpia hardware seems to be more netbook-like.
<lool> No, I think MID is orthogonal
<ogra_> well, we still have spare slots on the schedule
<davidm> they are filling up fast
<lool> Will the alternate CD build?  I guess so, I think it's built on the buildds right?
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> wasnt a1 alternate released ?
 * ogra_ wasnt near his mail the last hours
<lool> It was
<lool> I even ran it on Q1U :)
<ogra_> ah :)
<lool> And noticed issues with the kernel config
<StevenK> lool: The alternate doesn't touch the livefs builder?
<ogra_> well, its A1
<ogra_> StevenK, it doesnt use a livefs
<lool> StevenK: I don't think so; I think it's just pure cdimage logic?
<NCommander> StevenK, alternates are pure ubuntu-cdimage, they don't need to execute the binaries to build the image
<ogra_> why should it
 * NCommander has generated ia64 images on amd64
<ogra_> its plain shell
<NCommander> and superglue :-P
<lool> Apart of that armel was lagging pretty heavily for A1; there are some toolchain issues
<ogra_> running on antimony only
<lool> http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=10152
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=10152
<ubottu> sourceware.org bug 10152 in ld "[2.20 regression] ld segfault linking the kernel" [Normal,New]
<lool> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=40133
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=40133
<lool> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=40134
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=40134
<ubottu> gcc.gnu.org bug 40133 in libstdc++ "exception propagation support not enabled in libstdc++ 4.4 on {armeabi,hppa}-linux" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<ubottu> gcc.gnu.org bug 40134 in target "symbols not resolved when building shared libraries (link with -lgcc_s -lgcc?)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<ogra_> they are akll fixed
<StevenK> lool: Right
<lool> Should be dealt with upstream or by ARM
<lool> ogra_: Hmm?
<ogra_> linux is building since hours
<NCommander> We have a good number of packages failing because of the gcc #40133
<ogra_> binutils was uploaded yesterday
<NCommander> QT and KDE are hosed, and I have yet to find a way to get Qt short of downgrading the toolchain
<lool> Weird that the upstream bug is still open
<lool> NCommander: -lgcc didn't work?
<ogra_> doko rolled back one change
<lool> ogra_: Ok, that's only linux though; the other stand?
<ogra_> the binutils on the builders will work for qt
<ogra_> libstdc++ is fixed on the buildds too
<ogra_> i doubt we need to monitor libstdc++ or ld atm
<lool> Hmm ok, great
<NCommander> lool, I don't think the LDFLAGS I set on the commandline made it to the bits that FTBFS
<ogra_> not sure about the last one
<NCommander> lool, Qt uses a non-standardized build system, so its a lot of cloak and danger with really long build times
<StevenK> It isn't cmake?
<NCommander> StevenK, its qmake with some special bits
<StevenK> Oh, yuck
<NCommander> KDE is mostly cmake, Qt is its own system
<NCommander> And reconfiguring causes the package to autoclean
 * StevenK feels his stomach churn
<NCommander> even with ccache, the build process takes the better part of a day
<StevenK> Well, it is all complicated C++
<NCommander> yeah
<lool> So it's fixed anyway, right?
<ogra_> well, oo.o and linux should be done soon
<lool> Once the toolchain is built we give back, and voila
<NCommander> lool, I may like pain, but even this is pushing it for me
<NCommander> lool, oh, yeah, that should do it in theory
<ogra_> so you have builders available to throw stuff on them
 * NCommander suspects Qt will ICE the compiler to spit me.
<lool> Anything else we want to discuss today?
<StevenK> Hah
<lool> Shall we have meetings in the next two weeks
<ogra_> we should do irc imho
<lool> I'm tempted to cancel during UDS for one
<GrueMaster> Little light reading before Barcelona:  http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/14/1556244
<ogra_> though the time is inconvenient
<NCommander> GrueMaster, yeah, I saw that
<NCommander> lool, I think we could probably skit by without a UDS one, but we should kepe next weeks for the sake of the community
<lool> The time is inconvenient, we'll have other stuff to do, be tired, and most of us will be over there
<lool> NCommander: sold for me
<davidm> I think we need to annmounce a skip until June IMHO we will be busy and tired for sure.
 * StevenK looks up what time it is in Europe
<ogra_> 11pm
<StevenK> Ugh. Yes, skip it
<NCommander> so I'll annouce no meeting until June
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to annouce no meetings until June
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to annouce no meetings until June
<ogra_> no, announce the skip
<StevenK> At least give a date: June 4/5
<NCommander> Oh, no, I indeed to
<NCommander> The action just so I remember to note it
<lool> anything else to cover?
<NCommander> lpia, arm, meeting skip
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> How'd we do for A1 w.r.t. to image testing?
<NCommander> (what works, what doesn't?)
<ogra_> we dont have any
<NCommander> I know ARM is broken, and lpia live is
<NCommander> ogra, not even UNR?
<ogra_> for the official set at least
<ogra_> no live images possible
<lool> kernel is broken
<ogra_> all our images are live
<lool> we have images :)
<lool> they just... don't work :)
<GrueMaster> Do we have images yet for LSB testing?
<ogra_> none we do officially
<StevenK> We didn't make A1 for UNR?
<NCommander> Ugh
<lool> No, but there was no live image in A1 at all
<ogra_> there is alternate armel, lpia ...
<lool> armel really?
<ogra_> but not the ones we support
<NCommander> lool, I'm actually not suprised alternate armel built
<StevenK> GrueMaster: We have no images at all, it appears
<ogra_> no idea, i honestly didnt check
<GrueMaster> k
<lool> It did not
<NCommander> I'm actually suprised UNR failed to build.
<lool> *I* checked
<lool> NCommander: UNR *built*
<ogra_> but if uilt, armel might too
<lool> it doesn't work
<playya_> anyone has a device with a GSM chip? i want to create a freesmartphone.org team, but i don't have a device to test it. only my freerunner :(
<NCommander> oh
<StevenK> Bleh.
<NCommander> playya_, yeah, I got one, but its .... *bleck*
<NCommander> playya_, but this is more ontopic for #ubuntu-mobile vs this meeting.
<lool> Let me recap: lpia livefs broken => no MID; armel linux FTBFS => no armel live; UNR/i386 built, but doesn't work as live support is broken in kernel; alternate lpia built and has some issues
<StevenK> Oh! Right, UNR being broken isn't actually our fault
<lool> Oh and no armel alternate for the same reason
 * ogra_ sighs, gnome-shell really puts that machine under to much load, half of my typing is swallowed
<StevenK> ogra_: So that sentence was twice the number of keystrokes? :-P
<ogra_> StevenK, heh, yeah, took me a while
<ogra_> but gnome-shell looks cool at least ... just to blue
 * persia points at the nice handy #ubuntu-mobile for chatting
<NCommander> At the risk of showing my ignorance, but what is gnome-shell?
 * NCommander fires a back on topic cannon
<ogra_> the future of gnome
<NCommander> [topic] Specification Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Review
<NCommander> Do we have any specs we want to discuss pre-UDS?
<davidm> I don't know of any
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> [topic] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ogra_> we had that 5min ago :)
<NCommander> Fair enogh
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<NCommander> Going Once.
<NCommander> Going Twice.
<NCommander> Going Three times.
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:36.
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-15
<Nehyx> :/
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-17
<siretart_>   
<montel> hi
<montel> ubottu: ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<Seveas> montel, don't abuse that trigger.
<Seveas> it'll give you ops atention, but not the kind you like.
<montel> Seveas: sorry.
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-17
<kees> security team meeting is a go?
<jdstrand> sure
<kees> mdeslaur: you ready too?
<mdeslaur> kees: yep!
<ari-tczew> close meeting?
<kees> okay, so, last was UDS.  I'll be re-checking the specs and trying to hammer out workitems.  after that, publishing xorg-server update, and checking kernel builds
<kees> jdstrand: you're up.  my list is short.  :)
<jdstrand> I too plan to do the spec/workitems thing
<jdstrand> I plan to get back to koffice
<jdstrand> I am triager
<jdstrand> and will start poking at the (new) chromium apparmor profile I started on over the weekend
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I published some community security updates
<mdeslaur> and will be doing the spec_workitems stuff
<mdeslaur> and will go down the CVE list
<mdeslaur> there's a lot of security bugs to research, if you want to pass some of those to me, jdstrand, feel free
<mdeslaur> I didn't do any of it last week, so this morning I got rid of the low hanging fruit
<jdstrand> well, we'll see
<mdeslaur> oh, and I'll be looking at nxvl's openssl merge
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<kees> cool.  jjohansen, sbeattie, other folks got anything to bring up?
<nxvl> i will be giving mdeslaur a lot of work :D
<kees> nxvl: oh? in what form?
<nxvl> kees: he is community :D
<jjohansen> kees: hrmm, not atm
<mdeslaur> oh, and I'll also be preparing my packaging training session for next week
<nxvl> i've going trough d2u list and doing some merges
<kees> ah-ha, excellent.
<nxvl> plus i found a 'bug' that i already reported to stefanlsd yesterday, will trying to look at the source of that
<nxvl> bug in d2u
<kees> okay, thanks everyone!
<ari-tczew> I'm thinking about own work on chromium-browser CVEs
<mdeslaur> ari-tczew: cool!
<mdeslaur> ari-tczew, nxvl: thanks for your universe security update contributions this week
<ari-tczew> mdeslaur: kadu hardy waiting for sponsorship ;p
<mdeslaur> ari-tczew: I published it this morning
<mdeslaur> ari-tczew: read your bug mail :)
 * ari-tczew looking.. maybe in spam?
<ari-tczew> mdeslaur: that's right! your mail was published in my spambox ;p
<ari-tczew> and right now I got a mail from Ubuntu Installer
<ari-tczew> security team: what do you think about expand Ubuntu CVE Tracker by option to choice a release version? e.g. get CVEs for karmic (only)
<mdeslaur> ari-tczew: hmm...so I guess I'm considered spam :)
<ari-tczew> if not, would be nice to got an option to get open CVEs on current development cycle (like merges and syncs - active during dev cycle)
<kees> ari-tczew: the tracker already tracks per-release.  what specifically did you feel was missing?
<ari-tczew> kees: I love looking on clear situation. I'd like to see CVEs only open on devel release
<ari-tczew> current cve tracker's homepage have an option: (and without devel release)
<ari-tczew> I'd like to got (only devel release)
<kees> ari-tczew: you can use "scripts/ubuntu-table" from the tracker to do that -- just display the last column
<ari-tczew> explanation: we should give users a good, very safety linux system
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-18
<lifeless> is there a asia RMB tonight? persia ?
 * persia checks the wiki for those who don't like URLs
<persia> lifeless: I think "no", as the wiki page claims the next meeting is on the 11th.  I suspect the next meeting is really on the 25th.
<lifeless> persia: thanks!
<dholbach> pleia2, Technoviking, popey, nixternal: 9m?
<dholbach> hum, I guess I'll wait with my 2 agenda items: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda :)
<popey> :)
<persia> At least the second one really ought be discussed in this timeslot, as interested folks are more likely to be around.
<dholbach> given that it's just boring administrative stuff, I could also take it to email
<dholbach> I guess it's just a matter of filing an RT ticket
<persia> Is it just adjustment of the subscription lists to match the recent selection process?
<dholbach> yes
<persia> Oh, then yeah, no point to discussion ;)
<dholbach> amachu unfortunately didn't find the time
 * persia thought it was something more complicated, as it was on the agenda
<dholbach> who will send the RT ticket?
<persia> heh.  I can do the second one, but not the first, if that helps.  Might be easier to put both in one though.
<dholbach> the other discussion is separate
<dholbach> persia: thanks a bunch for taking on the rmb asia update!
<persia> Which other discussion is separate?
<dholbach> I suggested on team-council-members@lists.u.c that we move the list to LP to make updating a bit easier
<dholbach> I'll prod the discussion again
<persia> Yeah, that's probably best.  That does need discussion (branding, etc.)
<dholbach> right-o
<dholbach> Is there anything more that needs to be discussed?
<persia> I think you need quorum to have a meeting, and it's not present, so no point formally ending the meeting :)
<dholbach> well, there's people who were interested in discussing these things and we got some stuff sorted out already :)
<dholbach> so I asked if there was anything more
<persia> Not from me.
<dholbach> ok cool
<dholbach> popey: all set?
<popey> nothing here
<dholbach> alright, thanks everybody :)
<czajkowski> short n sweet
<popey> I am
<Pendulum> popey: you're sweet. I'm not so sure about short.
<popey> awww
<popey> *hugs*
 * Pendulum hugs popey back
<sabdfl> hello folks, sorry for being late
<popey> np, i think dholbach is taking it to the ml sabdfl
<sabdfl> okdokey
<sabdfl> happy to be home?
<popey> oh yes!
<popey> kids nearly exploded :)
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra> rool call first ?
<davidm> G'day NCommander
<ogra> *roll
<asac> o/
<NCommander> who's here?
<NCommander> GrueMaster: you here?
<GrueMaster> yep
<davidm> dyfet, you about?
<ogra> persia, ?
<NCommander> no dyfet or persia :-/
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100518
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100518
<asac> (i think cooloney also attends for kernel parts still)
<NCommander> There are no outstanding action items from last week
<NCommander> (there were all checked and completed)
<ogra> the work item link is wrongi think
<ogra> should be rather http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10.html
<ogra> (not that it matters since there isnt anything on it anyway atm)
<asac> I think we should use QA Status standing item to talk about SRU targets or something until first milestone for maverick is out
<asac> GrueMaster: ^^?
<asac> what do you think?
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney)
<ogra> oh, right, i have an action item to add for myself for next meeting
<GrueMaster> Well, since I don't have a current image, I have nothing to report on image status.
<cooloney> oh, actually, nothing new from my side about fsl-imx51
<cooloney> kernel
<ogra> i talked to slangasek at UDS, we're allowed to SRU bug #568736, NCommander please add an action item for me that i take care
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568736 in netbook-meta "Having Evolution installed along with Desktop-Email is pointlessly redundant" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568736
 * NCommander coughs
<ogra> we'll need it for our PPA build
<NCommander> Stay on topic people :-)
<ogra> cooloney, i think OMAP is the kernel topic for now :)
<NCommander> [action] ogra to SRU bug #568736
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to SRU bug #568736
<cooloney> ogra: ok, got it
<ogra> thanks
<cooloney> just discussed with amitk
<cooloney> so we are going to use .33 based omap4 kernel code for 10.07
<ogra> right
<cooloney> and for 10.10, we will have one more flavor in our kernel master branch named omapmainline
<GrueMaster> fyi 2.6.34 is out,
<cooloney> which will contains upstream omap3/omap4
<cooloney> GrueMaster: since 10.07 is critical, and we will try to use the lucid ti-omap branch code base
<cooloney> so .33 is much easier
<ogra> not only that
<GrueMaster> Ok.
<ogra> 10.07 is lucid
<cooloney> and ti's git tree is also based on .33
<cooloney> yeah
<cooloney> 10.07 is lucid
<asac> cooloney: will we use -omap (for 3) and -omap4 as subarch in kernel package names?
<asac> or also rename to -omap3?
<ogra> u-boot uses -omap3 currently btw
<cooloney> asac: actually, i plan to use -omap4
<ogra> cooloney, any keep -omap
<ogra> ?
<NCommander> Its a pain to rename for 10.07 if we do omap3 there, but we should rename the image for maverick
<asac> right. my question was if you are going for -omap3 or still to -omap for 3 (for maverick that is)
<ogra> NCommander, 10.07 is out of discussion
<cooloney> but -omap or -omap4 is not a big problem for me
<ogra> asac, i think the masterplan is to have one -omap kernel in the end (maverick+1)
<cooloney> asac: yeah,
<ogra> so the version based fully on mainline should probably stay -omep
<ogra> heh
<ogra> -omap
<cooloney> at end, the omap kernel will be in mainline supporting omap3 and omap4
<asac> ok that would be a good line
<cooloney> it will be just a flavour
<cooloney> not a branch
<asac> fine with me
<cooloney> but before that, we will have a topic branch named omap4patchdump for sync up with ti's patch drop
<asac> what about uboot? do we need to rename that using the same rule?
<ogra> for u-boot you will have -omap3 and -omap4 packages
<ogra> no
<asac> or will it always be -omap3 vs. -omap4 vs. -omap5?
<asac> etc
<ogra> because they are completely different versioned sources
<asac> kk
<cooloney> so, ogra, for 10.07, is -omap4 for PPA better or just -omap
<ogra> *if* we can have one u-boot source i'll consider calling it -omap
<davidm> asac, OMAP 3 is planned for 10.10 if at all possible
<asac> yep.
<ogra> cooloney, i think -omap4 might be better wrt upgrades to maverick
<slangasek> ogra: allowed to SRU> I think I suggested getting a second opinion from pitti or cjwatson, first?
<ogra> since 10.07 will be installed from scratch we save one package transition
<davidm> I don't want to drop the community, the Gumstix and Beagle boards are very nice and OMAP 3
<cooloney> ogra: ok, got it.
<asac> davidm: ++
<ogra> slangasek, yes, but i'm good at bribing :)
<davidm> The 512M Gumstix board is NICE
<cooloney> currently, i git clone the branch from ti's git tree
<cooloney> and rebased to our ti-omap branch
<cooloney> now fixed the kernel config
<ogra> right, so name the resulting binary -omap4
<ogra> for future consistency
<cooloney> during the building, met some compiling issues which should be ti omap4 code's problem
<ogra> talk to ndec about that please (and put me on CC)
<ogra> we should probably invite him to this meeting
<ogra> NCommander, can you take an action for that ?
<cooloney> so now, i am closed to build a omap4 kernel package
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to invite ndec to meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to invite ndec to meeting
<ogra> makes sense to have him around if he has time
<ogra> cooloney, cool !
<ogra> as soon as you have something to test, NCommander and i have the HW to test it ...
<ogra> cooloney, what target SoCs did you enable yet ?
<cooloney> ogra: is the kernel and header .deb enough for your testing?
<ogra> no need for the header for now
<NCommander> cooloney: yes
<ogra> i wont build modules
<cooloney> ogra: i imported the omap4 defconfig
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i wonder if there are differences between blaze and panda
<ogra> perferably we want to have both supported
<ogra> mpoirier, !!
<ogra> welcome !
<mpoirier> good morning all
<zyga> hello
<NCommander> welcome
<cooloney> omap_4430sdp_defconfig
<cooloney> ogra: ^^
<ogra> cooloney, sounds pretty generic
<asac> heh
<davidm> welcome mpoirier
<ogra> cooloney, for the omap3 kernel in maverick we seem to lack some patches btw
<cooloney> ogra: yeah, DSS patches?
<ogra> cooloney, i tried the lucid kernel and cant get the display to work on the touchbook
<ogra> right
<ogra> there is a bug for that
<cooloney> amitk added them
<ogra> between lucid and today ?
<cooloney> oh, sorry, not that
<ogra> right
<cooloney> ok, after i build the package i will take a look
<ogra> there might also be patches for zoom2 that we are missing
<cooloney> for the omap config,
<ogra> (also omap3)
<ogra> (and also display related)
<cooloney> ogra: do you have the working kernel config for your hardware?
<ogra> cooloney, nope, for the zoom i know XorA has it, we can ask him in #ubuntu-arm after the meeting
<ogra> for the touchbook i have to dig it up, but their current kernel is something like 2.6.29
<cooloney> ogra: good. so for 10.07, which one is our target hardware?
<ogra> we have general touchbook and zoom2 support in the lucid kernel
<ogra> both boot fine
<ogra> its just the display
<ogra> for 10.07 its panda and blaze
<ogra> both omap4
<cooloney> so, we don't have the kernel configs i guess
<ogra> 10.10 omap3: beagle, zoom, gumstix, touchbook .... 10.07 omap4: blaze, panda
<NCommander> anything else or can I moveon?
<ogra> cooloney, we have them enabled already
<ogra> cooloney, (omap3 that is)
<cooloney> ogra: understand
<ogra> cooloney, for omap3 only DSS2 patches seem to be missing
<cooloney> NCommander: i am done, nothing more now
<ogra> and probably sound
<ogra> cooloney, for omap4 we need to get them from TI
<NCommander> QA Status (GrueMaster)
<ogra> if there are any specific items at least
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> I thought we were skipping this?
<ogra> why should we ? :)
<cooloney> ogra: ok, i see
<dyfet> NCommander: sorry was late getting back
<GrueMaster> Because there is nothing to report at this time.
<ogra> GrueMaster, so any masterplan for omap testing ?
<GrueMaster> Give me boards, testing will happen.
<asac> i really think we should keep SRU stuff on topic for QA
<ogra> note that the images will be different
<GrueMaster> That's the current plan.
<asac> so nothing SRU worthy ? fine.
<zyga> what is your testing plan if I may ask?
 * zyga looks from ubuntu-on-arm qa perspective
<ogra> right, i'd like to hear about that too ... but GrueMaster is right, no testing without HW ...
<NCommander> msg davidm do we *really* want ubuntu-on-arm mixing with mobile right now?
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> fuck me
<GrueMaster> I don't know how to define "SRU worthy" wrt the bugs in Lucid.  There are a lot of bugs that need fixing, but I don't know how they affect contract status, etc.
<ogra> GrueMaster, so you should get a gumstix and we need to get you a beagle XM at least for the omap3 testing
<davidm> NCommander, I'm not sure I understand your question
<GrueMaster> ogra: That would help, yes.
<ogra> GrueMaster, for omap4 we need to wait for the pandas
<GrueMaster> I am going to look into the gumstix later today.
<ogra> zyga, do you have any suggestions for testing ?
<GrueMaster> As to SRU issues, My main issues are kernel on dove & babbage related.
<ogra> whats open there ?
<GrueMaster> I'll have to dig up a list, but off the top of my head, bug 559065 and bug 509006.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 559065 in linux-fsl-imx51 "ifconfig eth0 down will cause system hang after fec.c driver update" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/559065
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 509006 in linux-mvl-dove "[dove] hibernation failed to resume" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/509006
<ogra> ah, good
<ogra> GrueMaster, given that we wont build installer images this time, your testing will likely become a bit different
<GrueMaster> Had I known we were going to look at SRU bugs, I would have compiled a more detailed list.
<ogra> if you work out test plans, try to take that into account
<GrueMaster> Yes, I understand that.
<ogra> you will dd a fully installed system to SD with the new images that are coming
<ogra> though oem-config might need special attention here
<GrueMaster> So, I have a new server that is currently actively mirroring ports.  I also am mirroring cdimage.ubuntu.com for daily image builds.
<ogra> great
<NCommander> nifty
<GrueMaster> That will help immensly.
<ogra> our images will likely also be a lot bigger
<zyga> sorry I had a call
<ogra> so that should help you a lot
<zyga> ogra, not really, I'd like to see what you do currently and how it fits into our plans, perhaps there is some common effort or piece of technology
<GrueMaster> As to actual image testing, daily (as long as there is a new image to test) boot testing, then into deep testing with installed apps & some app testing from main.
<ogra> zyga, well, see above, i'm not sure how comparable our images will be to yours
<ogra> GrueMaster, oem-config testing too
<GrueMaster> Give me a honey-do list, and I'll get a round to-it.
<ogra> the image will be preinstalled, extend itself to the full SD card size on first boot and fire up oem-config to set upÃ¼ the user etc
<zyga> ogra, so all testing you do is manual, correct? (unless I missed something)
<ogra> so the special code that resizes needs special attention as well as the setup
<ogra> zyga, yes, its mainly for milestone tests
<GrueMaster> What is the plan for maximum image size ?
 * zyga has to go away now, darn
<ogra> since for daily the archive is unreliable anyway
<NCommander> GrueMaster: probably 1GiB ish
<ogra> GrueMaster, we dont have one ...
<zyga> I'll read the backlog when I get back from lunch
<NCommander> compressed
<ogra> 1G would be nice to have
<GrueMaster> 1G is easy.  Leaves room for language support in the image.
<NCommander> GrueMaster: not quite, there is no squashfs
<ogra> GrueMaster, the plan is to compress out all spare space and then to extend the system partition to max size of the SD on first boot
<ogra> we dont know yet how well it will be compressed
<ogra> there wont be language support beyond english
<ogra> that will be installed by oem-config in case a network connection exists
<ogra> if not it has to stay english
<GrueMaster> No squashfs?  I would recommend it as it makes for easier recovery methods.
<ogra> no
<ogra> we dont have an installer
<ogra> no squashfs
<NCommander> GrueMaster: this is a completely new type of image.
<ogra> its and "oem" image :)
<GrueMaster> Not really.  This is similar to a Moblin 1.0 image.
<ogra> what you dd to the SD card is your install
<ogra> right
<GrueMaster> And Moblin 1.0 used squashfs.
<ogra> its in some areas similar to a moblin image
<ogra> you cant use squashfs in a sane way
<GrueMaster> I'm just suggesting that we can still use squashfs.
<ogra> for installed systems
<NCommander> folks
<GrueMaster> No?
<ogra> no
<NCommander> lets take this offline and bring it back later
<ogra> right
<ogra> lets move on
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<NCommander> Nothing to report, archive still is in too much churn to really see whats broken
 * ogra sees libnih, apr, eglibc, kde4libs
<ogra> the first three definately need some research
<ogra> well, libnih and eglibc
<NCommander> ogra: crap, those must be new from last night :-/
<ogra> they are there since about two weeks
<ogra> eglibc failed with the first upload
 * NCommander sighs and thinks he's gone blind
<ogra> libnih failed short before uds
<NCommander> is doko sitll maintaining the armel toolchain?
<ogra> i would hope so
<ogra> asac, ?? Â°Â°
<ogra> ^^
<ogra> do you know ?
<asac> yes, for now he is our contact
<ogra> ok
<ogra> asac, do you know if anyone from your lside will care for things like eglibc ?
<ogra> given that its quite essential to have it build
<ogra> or do we need to take action here
<asac> same as for toolchain. things might change as we move on, but atm its doko
<ogra> ok
<doko> the eglibc build failure can be ignored for now
<ogra> ok
<ogra> that leaves libnih
<ogra> NCommander, dyfet, can one of you contact Keybuk ?
<ogra> iirc we had a similar timeout issue before with it
<ogra> (its hitting the 150 minutes barrier)
<ogra> not sure why though
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to poke Keybuk on libnih
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to poke Keybuk on libnih
<NCommander> anything else to bring up?
<ogra> not here
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<NCommander> ogra: I have livecd-rootfs voodoo for you
 * ogra hangs his head in shame for not having the spec ready yet
<NCommander> ogra: which spec?
<ogra> NCommander, i saw, i need to go over it a bit deeper ... i'm not really happy with your getopts stuff
<ogra> NCommander, for the image
<NCommander> ogra: lamont thought it was fine, but feel free to abuse it :-)
<ogra> if lamont says its fine i'm fine too :)
<NCommander> ogra: BuildLiveCD is a manual merge anyway on the buildds
<ogra> i'm not such a big fan of getopts in shell scripts where you can solve it with a simple case
<NCommander> ogra: the simple code was causing my eyes to bleed
<ogra> its what we use everywhere
<NCommander> livecd.sh uses getopts
<ogra> since case is fast and doesnt require external deps
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> getopts is a bash builtin
<ogra> yes, thats historically from infinity
<ogra> nope not that one
<NCommander> mcasadevall@daybreak:/home/buildd/src/chroot-scripts$ which getopts
<NCommander> mcasadevall@daybreak:/home/buildd/src/chroot-scripts$ getopts
<NCommander> getopts: usage: getopts optstring name [arg]
<NCommander> Its not a built-in?
<ogra> getopt is builtin
<ogra> and getopts is a standlone prog iirc
<NCommander> ogra: you've got it backwards
<NCommander> getopt is standalone, getopts is built in
<NCommander> (do which getopt)
<ogra> hmm, k
<ogra> anyway, if lamont is happy i'm happy too
<NCommander> woo, we're all happy!
<ogra> i'll write up the spec before next meeting
<ogra> so we have work items etc
<NCommander> cool
<NCommander> anything else on this topic?
<ogra> btw, you skipped the work item review
<NCommander> ogra: bit hard to do it if the burndown charts are broken
<ogra> we have at least three specs and i know persia was planning on more
<ogra> they arent broken
<NCommander> the main page is empty
<ogra> we dont have any specs submitted yet
<NCommander> Oh
<ogra> davidm needs to approve etc etc
<NCommander> [topic] Work Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Work Item Review
<ogra> but indeed we need to have them written and workitems added etc first
<ogra> so i have three to add here
<ogra> one is the rootfs building without root permissions
<ogra> one is upanel
<ogra> and one is the new image
<ogra> does anyone else have any specs that will be on the tracker ?
 * pitti waves
<ogra> as i said i know persia had some planned
<NCommander> arm softbootloader
<kees> heya piit
<ogra> but i dont know which
<NCommander> improved arm subnarch
<kees> er, pitti
<ogra> NCommander, does that make any sense ? if we only support one arch ?
<dyfet> while it was done under the arm track, I am not sure where the ofono spec will be under...
<ogra> (softbootloader i mean)
<ogra> dyfet, arm i guess
<ogra> dyfet, talk to asac about it
<dyfet> ogra: ok, let's assume that for now then...and I will discuss with asac separately
<ogra> NCommander, also did cjwatson have a look at your plans to change the installer for subarch ?
<NCommander> ogra: not yet, will do this week
<ogra> great
<ogra> so lets make sure we have them given to davidm by next meeting for approval
<ogra> can you make an action for all of us to have all specs ready for the tracker by next week ?
<NCommander> [action] Mobile team to have spec completed by next week
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Mobile team to have spec completed by next week
<NCommander> done
<ogra> preferct
<NCommander> Ok, we're short on time :-/
<ogra> or so
<ogra> right, but we're done, no ?
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<NCommander> I wanted to discuss changing the meeting time
<ogra> ..
<NCommander> but we don't have time this meeting
<ogra> right and no persia around
<ogra> lets defer that
<NCommander> so if you have a suggestion for a new meeting time, email it to me, and we'll vote next week
<NCommander> I think that's eventhing
<ogra> ++
<NCommander> g'night folks
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:59.
<sabdfl> nicely timed
<NCommander> ogra: one more + and you'll disconnect
<ogra> :)
<asac> heh ;)
<sabdfl> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is sabdfl.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Keybuk> Hey
<sabdfl> howdy scott
<kees> hello
<cjwatson> hi
<sabdfl> mdz around?
<pitti> o/
<mdz> sabdfl: yes
<sabdfl> hi pitti, hi matt
<sabdfl> a full house
<mdz> I was just sending you an SMS
<sabdfl> i look forward to it :-)
<mdz> I aborted
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] Action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action review
<sabdfl> ScottK, Riddell, any process on KDE update policy?
<pitti> oh, isn't that the agenda from last time?
<cjwatson> I suck across the board on actions.  I'll get to at least the meeting minutes this week
<sabdfl> hmm
<sabdfl> to pitti's point, i think it is, yes
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/TeamReports/Current has the actions from last time, FTR
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> pitti: Canonical patent licenses question, settled?
<pitti> got a reply from Amanda and replied to Reinhard and tb@
<pitti> so, done
<sabdfl> and soyuz sync-source?
<pitti> my branch landed
<cjwatson> regarding the Kubuntu unseeded package set thing there, we discussed this at UDS and I think the conclusion was to do something different
<pitti> and it's rolled out, so done
<cjwatson> oh good, I can stop explicitly saying -S unstable then
<sabdfl> and MoM is marked done in the agenda, thanks cjwatson
<cjwatson> yep
<sabdfl> so, does the absence of a new agenda mean there are no new items? should i resent this agenda to standing items?
<Keybuk> I added items today
<mdz> also, the chair should scan the mailing list as noted on the agenda
<pitti> There is the "release schedule" mail from Robbie
<Keybuk> Status of sparc and ia64 ports, and status web page (Scott)
<Keybuk> is new
<pitti> I guess the case is pretty much closed for maverick, though :)
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] 10.10.10
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.10.10
<sabdfl> robbie makes good data
<sabdfl> there are a couple of useful insights, i think:
<sabdfl>  - equal weeks don't make equal cycles
<mdz> to repeat what I said on the list:
<mdz> For my part, I like the idea of balancing out the amount of "actual work"
<mdz> time we have in each cycle, though I think that aligning with GNOME *does*
<mdz> matter to us.
<sabdfl>  - releasing very late in the month is potentially hairy
<sabdfl> agreed on the GNOME front
<sabdfl> can we separate those two, and start with the nuanced cycle bit?
<mdz> I also think this is a release team decision, not a tech board one
<sabdfl> input from the tech board was solicited and is welcome
<mdz> I'm sure input from the TB is welcome, but the release team needs to be a part of it
<cjwatson> ... I think the release team might well punt on this given in particular that we'll be changing RM this cycle
<pitti> so, Robbie's proposal basically means to release the fall cycle earlier, and by and large keep the sprint cycle, right?
<pitti> i. e. in the spring cycle we would have a better change of fitting gnome x.y.1
<pitti> which is nice because LTSes are in spring
<sabdfl> +1
<cjwatson> we have certainly noticed an "autumn cycles tend to produce worse releases" pattern in the past
<sabdfl> i read it as "second week in october, third week in april"
<pitti> and for fall we would then have to SRU the lot (or cherrypick)
<cjwatson> I don't know that any of us had thought hard about the precise causes of that
<Keybuk> pitti: I did a bit of digging, and found that we've tended to cherry pick the bug fixes in anyway before the .1
<Keybuk> at least all the ones that had LP bugs filed
<Keybuk> so that didn't worry me so much
<pitti> Keybuk: for lucid, yes; since we knew that we got late
<pitti> we did a couple of git snapshots before
<pitti> as I said, it's doable, just takes some more packaging work
<kees> I remain on the fence.  moving up from the end of the month is good, but losing time on the release makes me uncomfortable, especially due to the disconnect with the previous cadence.
<pitti> so, Robbie's proposal sounds fine to me, and has a better balance between the cycles, too
<Keybuk> it would worry me if we released before GNOME's .0 though ;-)  but that's also why I suggested we set our cycle early, to resist the urge for GNOME to slip their cycle :p
<kees> I do like equalizing the devel time.
<cjwatson> my main position is, I think, still that we're sending a pretty mixed message about cadence; it does help that we're trying to establish a future rhythm but what happens when the next marketing opportunity comes along? :-)
<pitti> equalizing> unless we actually want to keep the schema of having slightly more time for LTS cycles?
<pitti> marketing opportunity> how did we miss releasing dapper on the 6.06.2006? :-)
<sabdfl> LTS cycles get the winter break, for better or worse
<sabdfl> pitti: i think certain remixes might have ;-)
<pitti> sabdfl: it already was 6.06, after all
<mdz> I think we're spending too much time rationalizing this
<cjwatson> the historical pattern that autumn releases tend to be worse seems to suggest that more development time => suckier
<mdz> robbie has put a lot of work into finding a reason to do what sabdfl wants to do
<sabdfl> well, let's not spend even more time on it now, then :-p
<mdz> exactly
<mdz> I could come up with 10 reasons for or against
<pitti> cjwatson: I seriously doubt that it's just due to the time; we just tend to introduce more structural changes before and after LTSes
<mdz> this isn't a decision which is motivated by a desire to improve the release process, so let's not cloud the issue
<kees> I can produce no good technical reason to oppose the date change, so I support it.
<sabdfl> are there any objections to framing our cadence as "2nd week in october, third week in april"? to avoid the last week issue?
<mdz> I frankly don't see an issue with the last week
<pitti> mdz ++; it never hurt us and it gave us a good alightment with gnome
<sabdfl> it always makes me nervous, but it's not actually been a problem yet
<kees> it offers no way to slip without changing the release version.  :)
<mdz> kees: sure it does
<sabdfl> mdz: would you see a problem with releasing 11.04 on, say May 2nd if a wart crops up late?
<mdz> we choose the release numbers; they don't choose us
<mdz> sabdfl: not even slightly
<sabdfl> it would make for very, very bad publicity
<mdz> being late would make for bad publicity
<sabdfl> i think some of us are more sensitive to the potential for headlines than others
<mdz> but we need to be pragmatic; problems do turn up and sometimes being late is the best option
<cjwatson> the only issue I see with the last week is the cost-of-bandwidth thing
<mdz> the release number is really a minor concern
<sabdfl> that's true. but it would amplify the headline.
<cjwatson> I don't see an operational concern, given the number of times that we've had late problems and managed to deal with them one way or another
<sabdfl> agreed with cjwatson, though, there's a real benefit to fitting the release deluge inside a month
<mdz> even if we did want to change it, that's a repeatable process at this point
<cjwatson> yes, it puts stress on the release team, but given our structure the stress is not significantly reduced by the difference between one-day-late and one-day-late-and-next-month
<cjwatson> we know that one-day-late is a Very Bad Thing regardless of the dates
<cjwatson> and it depends on how the calendar works out; 24th of April (say) wouldn't be a significant problem
<sabdfl> true
<sabdfl> but third week would always have slack for the bandwidth tail to... tail
<cjwatson> I don't know that we need to make the definition as complex as that of the date of Easter though :-)
<cjwatson> I would rather that we had a little discretion either way, and were up-front about that
<mdz> can we rescope this discussion to the decision at hand? we don't need to re-engineer the release schedule in general in this meeting, just decide on what to do about *this* release
<Keybuk> In a sense, since Robbie has already changed the schedule on the wiki page, and the Google Calendar
<Keybuk> the decision is should the TB overrule him and restore the original Release Schedule
<Keybuk> no?
<mdz> Keybuk: no
<mdz> he was very explicit about calling that a proposal, a draft, etc., and he also directly asked the TB to decide
<Keybuk> yes, but he's since made the Proposal the Schedule
<sabdfl> to weigh in. you made the point that 10.10.10 is a marketing issue, and the marketing team have also weighed in.
<mdz> and the release team is apparently abstaining
<pitti> FWIW, I have almost no problem with 10.10.10, given the rather special gnome situation this time
<sabdfl> mdz: the reason i'm pursuing the multi-release perspective, is to address your point about GNOME sync
<sabdfl> i think we should take the opportunity now to publish our release dates through till 12.04
<mdz> sabdfl: yes, I did. I also asked what we will do with this marketing opportunity to make it worthwhile
<sabdfl> want to settle this current matter, then take that on
<Keybuk> sabdfl: Robbie has already done so, and announced them
<Keybuk> (as drafts)
<mdz> since changing the date doesn't seem like it will make a big splash
<cjwatson> it seems cute but I don't see it making a difference with people on the other side of the chasm
<cjwatson> and I still think the Sunday thing is going to be an operational issue
<cjwatson> is our webmaster going to be available on Sunday, for instance?
<pitti> we'd need to have the images ready on Friday, I think; we can't expect the full release team and testers to work over the weekend; just pushing the announcement and the web page
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
<Keybuk> Robbie has published the release schedule
<cjwatson> yeah, but we know that that last bit involves fairly significant coordination
<Keybuk> this release schedule is *not* marked as a draft, and has the release date as 10.10.10
<Keybuk> there is no objection from the release team
<Keybuk> (that I can see)
<cjwatson> in practice, it takes a couple of hours of quite intensive work
<Keybuk> and the consensus that I'm hearing from this board appears to be that it's either not this board's decision, or the board as a whole doesn't hate it
<sabdfl> our webmaster says he's up for it, and it sounds like a cool plan :-)
<Keybuk> so I suggest we respect Robbie's decision to publish the release schedule
<mdz> Keybuk: I'm not seeing your point. are you saying there's no decision to be made and we can go home?
<Keybuk> and move on to the next topic
<Keybuk> mdz: I'm saying someone has already made the decision, so we don't need to
<mdz> Keybuk: that I agree with
<sabdfl> ok then. 10.10.10 it is.
<Keybuk> nothing in our board's "constitution" states that once somebody has forwarded us a question, they can't decide on their own answer
<mdz> but those someones have made a point of bringing the issue to the TB anyway
<Keybuk> this is on the agenda because of robbie, and robbie has clearly made up his own mind ;)
<sabdfl> and in doing so, prompted valuable discussion
<Keybuk> yeah, I fully agree the discussion is valuable
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] Varying the cadence for slightly longer April cycles
<MootBot> New Topic:  Varying the cadence for slightly longer April cycles
<Keybuk> I don't want to set a dangerous precedent that the board overrules people without a stated objection :)
<cjwatson> next time, perhaps we could have the discussion before announcements at UDS? ;-)
<sabdfl> i heard two objections: one, that we should sync with GNOME, and two, that a nuanced cadence weakens our sotry around cadence in general
<sabdfl> do folks think that consulting GNOME now, and publishing a schedule for the next two years, is feasible?
<mdz> cjwatson: or skip discussion altogether
<cjwatson> consulting them is feasible, but I don't know that expecting external projects not to have their own reasons for temporary variation over the course of two years is feasible
<Keybuk> sabdfl: I think so; we have a draft for the next two years, and jcastro is a GNOME Board member, so would know who to consult with
<Keybuk> at least then they'd know our plans, so would be able to take their own decisions with a little light
<pitti> sabdfl: schedule for next two years should be fully possible, and Robbie by and large worked those out already
<sabdfl> would GNOME be sensitive to the winter break argument too?
<sabdfl> i'm wqondering if the dynamic might be different for them, in that regard?
<pitti> I'm happy to take the action of asking the GNOME RM about this change
<Keybuk> and I think we'd want to be flexible enough that should they have a strong reason to break their cycle (and ours), we would be willing to change ours
<sabdfl> perhaps "we get MORE done over holidays"?
<Keybuk> the release schedule shouldn't be a rock to dash ourselves against
<sabdfl> agreed
<mdz> I haven't looked at the 11.10 or 12.4 schedules
<mdz> but 11.4 looks OK to me
<sabdfl> can i propose we approach them to have the discussion, taking Robbie's data, and seeing if they have similar or divergent forces at work?
<sabdfl> with a view that we can, if the stars align, publish both our schedules for this next two year cycle?
<Keybuk> I imagine right now they're more worried about their current release's schedule, and how ridiculously far behind they are with it <g>
<sabdfl> this would have a number of benefits
<Keybuk> but it would be a good conversation to have, yes
<sabdfl> one of which would be being able to book UDS venues further in advance
<sabdfl> we struggle, when the dates are set with less than 12 months notice, at our scale
<mdz> I think that's more because we change the venue every time
<cjwatson> the UDS dates already seem to have several weeks of slack either way, from recent memory?
<cjwatson> though I agree that it would be nice to have them a bit more consistent relative to the release
<sabdfl> repeating the venue would be appreciated by the organising team, i think, if folks are up for that. but that's a separate topic.
<sabdfl> would Jorge be the right person to task with opening up that dialogue?
<cjwatson> I thought that was the organising team's decision :)
<mdz> cjwatson: they tend to get a lot of "input" into that decision
<Keybuk> does anyone really mind if UDS tends to repeat venues, if the venues are good?
<mdz> silbs has proposed selecting the same venues for a couple of years to come, and I think that's wise
 * pitti notes that selecting venues isn't really TB matter :)
<mdz> pitti: it is, however, something that needs to be considered when setting dates for UDS
<sabdfl> [VOTE] TB invites Jorge to work with GNOME to see if a release schedule till 12.04 is feasible, and if the dynamics around April releases are similar
<MootBot> Please vote on:  TB invites Jorge to work with GNOME to see if a release schedule till 12.04 is feasible, and if the dynamics around April releases are similar.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
 * persia holds the faint hope that the lack of venue preselection means UDS might happen in Asia once in a while
<jcastro> I can take that action to GNOME
<maco> persia: :)
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<kees> +1
<Keybuk> (on the basis jcastro just said it was ok :p)
<MootBot> +1 received from kees. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<sabdfl> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> if we can, that gets us a roadmap to 12.04, and opens up the possibility for planning UDS and other sprints further in advance
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] Sparc and IA64 status and web page
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sparc and IA64 status and web page
<sabdfl> scott?
<Keybuk> right, just collecting notes
<Keybuk> at UDS, there was a session on the current status of the Sparc and ia64 ports
<cjwatson> sorry, I missed the vote above; I'm +1 on that as well
<Keybuk> I agreed to bring the result of that discussion to the TB for a formal vote
<Keybuk> sparc is in a poor state, it has no current maintainer, and there are numerous issues with the toolchain and kernel such that it basically does not boot, etc.
<Keybuk> the recommendation from the discussion is that the TB should send a general mail announcing this fact, and that should a maintainer team not come forwards to work on it, the port should be dropped at Maverick Feature Freeze
<pitti> I should add that sparc caused quite some extra effort durign lucid for manually removing uninstallable binaries, cleaning up NBS/uninstallables, etc.
<Keybuk> ia64 is in a better state, it's largely good, just needs an active maintainer team
<Keybuk> so in the same mail we should encourage people to work on it (but won't drop it right now if they don't)
<cjwatson> I'm always very cautious about dropping ports, but if we give clear and sufficient notice (as the plan seems to be) then I'm less concerned
<Keybuk> also I agreed to put together a wiki page summarises the current state of the ports, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchitectureStatus
<Keybuk> so, does the TB agree with this approach, and if so, can we vote to approve the result of the discussion?
<mdz> I think it's important that we not underestimate the cost of ports
<mdz> a port which virtually nobody uses, even if it has an active maintainer team, is not a net benefit to the project
<kees> do we have any download stats for the ports?
<mdz> the rest of us do trip over it in various ways, e.g. archive admin as pitti mentioned
<cjwatson> there are also benefits to ports which are easy to forget
<pitti> powerpc is still fairly popular, judging by bug reports that I got
<mdz> kees: yes
<cjwatson> I'm not disagreeing on the costs, but it isn't all negative
<Keybuk> pitti: powerpc was not discussed, the port is in a good state
<mdz> when I want a quick summary, I usually look at http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
<Keybuk> (has active maintenance, etc.)
<mdz> though we can get additional data if that's desired
<pitti> Keybuk: right, that referred to "port that nobody uses"
<sabdfl> is "armel" a special port of arm, or is it the primary one?
<persia> The primary one
<persia> ARM Extended ABI, Little Endian (I believe)
<mdz> ubuntu-10.04-desktop-ia64.iso	has 3 downloads, and I believe there are two seed servers
<Keybuk> "el" being someone's silly idea of a joke
<mdz> compared to 5377 for i386
<Keybuk> though isn't el big-endian technically? :p
<sabdfl> mdz: i was going to ask for the picture version of that :-)
<cjwatson> sabdfl: "arm" is the old abi, and the new one required a new architecture name
<cjwatson> we've never had an arm architecture in Ubuntu
<mdz> sabdfl: just imagine a grain of sand in the irish sea
<sabdfl> :-)
<Keybuk> radioactive sand?
<sabdfl> i have a beach on the irish sea close by. there is no sand. there is, in fact, mostly rotting seaweed :-)
<mdz> we also build kubuntu, xubuntu, server and alternate versions for ia64
<sabdfl> Keybuk: what would qualify for "maintainer team" for IA64, in your mind?
<mdz> just in case the one user wants more choice
<persia> There are a number of active Ubuntu developers who run ia64: it may be worth seeking greater input on which flavours they run.
<sabdfl> i've heard no objections to putting SPARC on notice, some concern about not doing the same for IA64
<Keybuk> sabdfl: one or more people contributing patches to the toolchain and kernel, and actively helping with FTBFS issues
<Keybuk> the concern in the discussion about putting ia64 on notice was
<Keybuk> (a) lamont was there :p
<mdz> I volunteer to get download data for both ia64 and sparc
<Keybuk> (b) ia64 builds tend to pick up bugs that affected amd64 at runtime
<sabdfl> the latter is interesting
<kees> for "b" I though those scripts had been bolted to the amd64 buildds too now?
<mdz> Keybuk: what kind of bugs?
<Keybuk> kees: the theory was that building things on ia64, with its stricter ABI, means that certain runtime failures get caught at build time
<Keybuk> alignment issues and whatnot
<persia> kees: Only based on some common issues, but not all cases.
<mdz> sounds like something that compiler or linker flags would do more effectively than a port
<slangasek> missing prototypes causing implicit pointer->int casts
<kees> okay
<cjwatson> ia64 and amd64 both have 64-bit pointer and 32-bit int
<kees> (but if no-one is looking at ia64 failures, it doesn't have any value...)
<slangasek> and yes, my understanding is that the build-time check (which is a build log filter, not a compiler feature) is enabled now on am64 too
<mdz> -Werror=implicit-function-declaration I believe
<slangasek> if it isn't, it ought to be done ASAP
<cjwatson> if you have the implicit casts slangasek mentions (which are a very common bug), then they completely hose ia64 because it tends to scatter pointers liberally through the whole 64-bit space
<cjwatson> but amd64 only notices sometimes, because its pointers tend to be packed down in the bottom 4GB when possible
<cjwatson> so you only notice once you start using enough memory
<mdz> let's call it an "accidental feature"
<cjwatson> we've caught quite a few problems due to ia64 binaries failing during builds, AIUI
<cjwatson> mdz: this kind of accidental feature is rife with ports
<mdz> it doesn't sound like a reason to maintain an entire port
<sabdfl> mdz: you mean, build images?
<mdz> sabdfl: I mean, compile packages
<cjwatson> the reason I support a reasonably rich (but not to Debian or NetBSD levels!) port ecosystem is that each port we have tends to catch an interesting set of problems of its own
<slangasek> mdz: -Werror=implicit-function-declaration is overly broad; lamont has a script that greps the logs and detects the explicit combination of missing declaration + implicit cast
<mdz> though there are certainly intermediate levels we could consider
<cjwatson> and then, when we have to bootstrap a new port, we don't find ourselves needing to fix everything at once
<mdz> like compiling the packages and throwing them away
<mdz> if we just want build testing
<cjwatson> I don't think this is a reason to maintain all the CD images we do maintain, say
<sabdfl> ok
<cjwatson> there are some explicit casts which break ia64 but aren't caught by compiler flags, btw
<cjwatson> IIRC it used to be fairly common to stuff pointers into ints for glib callbacks
<sabdfl> do we need to vote, or can we simply support keybuk's proposal, modulo mdz's desire to set the bar quite high for maintainership of IA64?
<sabdfl> there are no community bugs, ftr
<cjwatson> I'm entirely happy with Keybuk's proposal
<sabdfl> me too
<mdz> I would like to suggest a different tone
<Keybuk> I'd like to find out whether the board feels that ia64 should suffer the same deadline?
<mdz> the message sounded like "someone please step up to maintain this thing because we want to keep it"
<mdz> while I think it should be "we propose to drop this because it isn't adding enough value to the project; if you have a good reason to keep it AND are willing to step up and maintain it, please get in touch"
<sabdfl> what i heard was "building the packages is useful, publishing them is useful to quite a lot of people, but making images turns it into an official exercise we aren't comfortable with"
<Keybuk> I'll take an action to draft that mail, and send it to the TB list for review there
<sabdfl> +1 to mdz's language, from me
<mdz> Keybuk: did hppa come up at all?
<cjwatson> there's probably no reason, incidentally, why people with ia64/sparc needs couldn't deal with installations by way of netboot installation
<Keybuk> mdz: hppa is not a port
<kees> +1 on language. +1 on sparc schedule, +1 on at least dropping ia64 image builds.
<cjwatson> mdz: why would it?  we removed it
<mdz> oh, right
<mdz> for 9.10
<Keybuk> zombie hppa?
<persia> It was touched briefly in the session, but nobody wanted to consider reviving it.
<mdz> Keybuk: no, just looking cross-eyed at the list of isos
<Keybuk> it rose from the dead crying "BRRRAAAAAAAAAINS"
<sabdfl> :-)
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] Community bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Community bugs
<sabdfl> there are none
<sabdfl> any comments?
<Keybuk> I am happy with there being no bugs
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<sabdfl> 3
<sabdfl> 2
<persia> There was a session about flavour testing at UDS: would the TB have an interest in being a piont of approval for flavour definitions?
<sabdfl> i'd like that on my business card, yes
<persia> (the alternative being to delegate entirely to the release team(
<sabdfl> piont of approval
<sabdfl> that'll get them wondering
<Keybuk> I looked that up, before I realised it was a typo
<persia> Sorry.  New laptop this week, with very different keyboard.
<sabdfl> flavours being.... ?
<pitti> persia: hm, not sure what you mean; xubuntu et al are already on the iso tracker, being tested, etc.?
<pitti> although these aren't called "flavour" usually
<persia> pitti: Right.  So if someone wants a new one, is this a TB item, or just up to the release team?
<persia> What aren't called "flavour"?
<sabdfl> i'd say release team
<pitti> persia: "derivatives"?
<pitti> just want to ensure that we talk about the same thing
<persia> pitti: That language was *supposed* to change in feisty, but communication has been weak :)
<cjwatson> well, speaking of which, Lubuntu approached us asking for hosting
<persia> But yeah, same thing.
<persia> That would be a current example, yes.
<cjwatson> for the time being, I've said that we are too pressed for space on cdimage to be able to offer hosting, but that we could perhaps e.g. accommodate them on the ISO tracker as a partial compromise
<persia> another likely to approach in maverick would be liquid/kubuntu-mobile (depending on integration efforts)
<pitti> if/once we can drop some ports images, we might have more
<cjwatson> but if it came to full-blown hosting, I'd expect to be bringing it to the TB
<sabdfl> i think the bar has to be pretty high for us to provide hosting
<persia> images aside: there's changes in lots of other places as well.
<persia> (LP, cocoplum, livecd-rootfs, debian-installer, ubuntu-cdimage, etc.)
 * kees has to go to another appointment...
<cjwatson> yes, full hosting implies things such as their development processes being integrated with Ubuntu
<sabdfl> persia: topic for next TB
<slangasek> cjwatson: accomodating them on the ISO tracker w/o having image respins under the control of the release team on antimony poses some practical workflow problems for milestones
<sabdfl> which will be chaired by....
<Keybuk> I feel like I haven't chaired in a while
<cjwatson> slangasek: yeah, I know - it was a suggestion rather than a decision, and I'm open to exploring it
<sabdfl> alphabetical rotation, wasn't it?
<persia> If it's a TB thing, then I'll draft it that way, and submit for review, and if the TB decides to delegate, we can change it.  Thanks :)
<Keybuk> I think I was on leave, when I was supposed to chair, so it went from kees->pitti
<sabdfl> ok, Keybuk it is
<sabdfl> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:12.
<sabdfl> thanks all and sorry for the overrun
<pitti> thanks all
 * manjo waves 
 * manjo pokes cking 
 * vanhoof looks in
<cking> manjo, eh?
 * cking here
 * smb drags himself in
<apw> Roll Call
 * ogasawara waves
 * jjohansen1 waves
 * manjo waves
 * cking waves
 * tgardner is here
<apw> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:59. The chair is apw.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mpoirier> good morning all
<kamal> o/
<smb> \o
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<apw> #
<apw> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<apw> #
<apw> [TOPIC] Outstanding Actions
<apw> None from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding Actions
<apw> [TOPIC] New Bodies
<MootBot> New Topic:  New Bodies
<smb> I want one
<apw> Welcome to all those new bodies who have joined us since the last meeting!
<apw> those of you who are here might want to say hi
<apw> ..
<manjo> welcome
<mpoirier> hello
<vanhoof> hi :)
 * apw expects a couple more
<abogani> hi
 * smb waits for lag 
<lag> Hello
<apw> Anyhow welcome all ...
<apw> [TOPIC] UDS/Blueprints (all)
<MootBot> New Topic:  UDS/Blueprints (all)
<apw> With UDS behind us its time to get all the discussion into the blueprints, to get the outcomes distilled out, and the work items onto the blueprint whiteboards.  Please ensure that your blueprint is assigned to someone in the team, that it is targetted to a sensible Maverick milestone, that it has a priority set, and that it has a Series Goal of Maverick.
<apw> We will start to expect status reporting for the open blueprints from next meeting.  If you are an assignee, you will be expected to report progress or delegate someone to do so.  Please ensure your blueprint is shown on the release status page (url below), and if not talk to ogasawara or apw so we help sort it out.
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<apw> ..
<ogasawara> apw et al: I'll send a gentle reminder about blueprints/work items to the mailing list as well
 * apw warns you things are not in the normal order, so be ready :)
<apw> ogasawara, ack
<apw> [ACTION] ogasawara to email out reminder regarding blueprint disposition
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogasawara to email out reminder regarding blueprint disposition
<apw> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick overall (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick overall (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> For those who haven't yet heard, we'll be targetting the 2.6.35 kernel for Maverick.
<ogasawara> We'll be rebasing to 2.6.34 final today and uploading.  Next will be to get the changes from the UDS config review integrated as well as changes noted from the UDS delta review.
<ogasawara> For any brave souls wanting to try Maverick's current kernel, it's available at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/2.6.34-2.9
<ogasawara> ..
<apw> [TOPIC] Status: Security & Bugfix Kernels (smb/gnarl/sconklin)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Security & Bugfix Kernels (smb/gnarl/sconklin)
<smb> Dapper:      2.6.15-55.83  (updates)
<smb> Hardy:       2.6.24-27.69  (updates)
<smb> Intrepid:    --- End of Support ---
<smb> Jaunty:      2.6.28-18.60  (updates)
<smb> Karmic:      2.6.31-21.59  (updates)
<smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.31-213.27 (updates)
<smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-111.27 (updates)
<smb>  - ec2       2.6.31-306.14 (updates)
<smb> Lucid:       2.6.32-22.33  (updates)
<smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.32-204.16 (release)
<smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-607.13 (release)
<smb>  - ti-omap   2.6.33-500.6  (release)
<smb>  - qcm-msm   2.6.31-800.2  (release)
<smb>  - ec2       2.6.32-305.9  (release)
<smb> Currently working on security updates. Following that there are quite a few
<smb> stable updates for Lucid.
<smb> Given the number of topic branches I expect pain.
<smb> ..
<sconklin> ..
<apw> smb have we got a work-item for the slamming back of fsl-imx51 to karmic ?
<smb> apw, action me
<smb> I think not
<apw> [ACTION] smb, to add work item for updating karmic fsl-imx51 in line with lucid
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smb, to add work item for updating karmic fsl-imx51 in line with lucid
<apw> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<apw>  /me pokes JFo in the ribs
<tgardner> JFo is sufferuing from ubuflue, so might not be around.
<apw> ahh ... ok ...
 * apw will take that under advisment
<apw> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
 * apw takes that one as well
<apw> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<apw> seeing the pattern ?
<apw> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<tgardner> give it up, dude
<apw> #
<apw> # NOTE: 'o/' to indicate you have a topic, chair will call you forward
<apw> #
<kamal> o/
<apw> kamal, go
<kamal> Some of my Dell Studio 155x patches have been accepted to -stable.  Yay!   I'm sick.  :-(  UDS ----  wow!
<kamal> ..
<apw> sounds good, we should get those shortly via smb then
 * smb saw something
<manjo> o/
<apw> manjo, go
<manjo> any changes to SRU policy for Maveric ?
<smb> manjo, no
 * JFo is here now
<apw> smb, presumably we are back to non-LTS sru policy
<JFo> apologies for being late
<smb> apw, Yes, though that is already documented
<apw> JFo, ok ... will call your sections in a sec
<JFo> k
<apw> any other, any other business ?
<manjo> ..
<apw> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (none yet)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Release Targeted Bugs (none yet)
<JFo>  * 0 linux kernel bugs
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug
<JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Milestoned Features -
<JFo>  * 15 blueprints
<JFo>     
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Bugs with Patches Attached:132
<JFo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<JFo> Breakdown by status:
<JFo> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<JFo> I plan to do a review of patch attached bugs this week
<JFo> hopefully that number will drop drastically
<JFo> ..
<apw> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo> 1134 Lucid Bugs
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential ====
<JFo>   * 317 lucid bugs
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 26 lucid bugs
<JFo>   * 9 karmic bugs
<JFo>   * 5 jaunty bugs
<JFo>   * 2 intrepid bugs
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bug (up 1)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 141 lucid bugs
<JFo>   * 52 karmic bugs
<JFo>   * 21 jaunty bugs
<JFo>   * 10 intrepid bugs
<JFo>   * 3 hardy bugs
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed (no change) ====
<JFo>   * 1 lucid bug
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug
<JFo> I've not yet removed Intrepid, but I shall as it is EOL
<apw> sounds good, rip it out
<JFo> please note the large amount of regression-release bugs for Lucid
<JFo> ok, will do
<JFo> ..
<apw> yeah we need to remember to focus on lucid regression-release bugs in the early cycle
<JFo> yep
<apw> this is an LTS and we care as we have to have this baby about forever
<apw> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> Bug Days will start back after next week. I plan to send out an announcement for the next one early in the week with a reminder the business day before.
<smb> \o
<apw> sounds good ...
<manjo> since we SRU kittenkillers only should we mark all lucid bugs milstone to maveric ?
<apw> smb, go
<smb> Just on the Lucid release bugs, we should try to get the pending stable updates queued up into proposed and revisit then
<apw> manjo, we don't know if they are even in maverick
<JFo> I agree smb
<JFo> ..
<manjo> apw, right, so if !fixed in maveric
<apw> we actually do fix bugs whcih affect users in lucid too btw
<manjo> if you looks at jfos list its huge
<apw> yeah we have a fair few bugs in there
<smb> apw, manjo It should be in the SRU policy for the next 3 months
<smb> After that rather kitten killers but for LTS also enablement to a degree
<smb> ..
<apw> smb, seems the SRU message is not getting out, we should have had a session on it at UDS
<apw> ...
<manjo> +1
<apw> i think thats everything
<apw> shout now if you have anything more
<apw> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:17.
<kamal> thanks apw
<apw> thanks everyone
<smb> thanks apw
<JFo> thanks apw
<cking> ditto
<lag> Cheers
 * lag runs for the door
 * manjo bye
<zul> server team meeting?
<ttx> zul: in 3 min, yes
<sommer> o//
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<Daviey> o/
<zul> yo
<Daviey> kirkland looking forward to it? :)
<ttx> o/
<ttx> Welcome everyone
<mathiaz> /o//^98
<hggdh> ~o~
<ttx> to another season of the exciting adventures of the Ubuntu Server team
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:01. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Daviey> Ooooooo
<zul> is it a sequal?
<ttx> Agenda is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<zul> or a prequal
<smoser> \0
<ttx> smoser is the lucky scribe
<smoser> ah. joy.
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> No ACTION that I can find
 * mathiaz agrees
<ttx> [TOPIC] Maverick blueprints and specs (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick blueprints and specs (ttx)
<ttx> So, while we recover from 5 (10?) days away from home, it's time to start drafting specs
<ttx> Please have a look at specs where you are set as drafter, and set them to "Drafting" if you started drafting
<ttx> I didn't manage to sync with Jos after UDS on potential reassignments
 * Daviey doesn't have any, and would be happy to volunteer some if people are overloaded.
<ttx> so please just take what you care the most about for now (or what you think will be assigned to you anyway)Ã 
<ttx> Daviey: I expect kirkland to offload some of his UEC specs to the rest of the team
<ttx> Daviey: if not, I've one for you :)
<Daviey> Oh joy :)
<ttx> Daviey: but I'll wait for Jos to confirm first :P
<Daviey> ok.
<ttx> SpamapS: you should get a few too
<ttx> SpamapS: hiding won't help you
<zul> hehe
<ttx> Any question on the blueprint/specs side ?
<mathiaz> ttx: yes
<mathiaz> ttx: what's the deadline for spec writing?
<SpamapS> ttx: Jos assigned a few of the blueprints to me already
<mathiaz> ttx: and how does it play with the first iteration of the cycle?
 * SpamapS still will attempt hiding tho
<ttx> mathiaz: that's a good question.
 * ttx looks
<RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: i'll ping you later on this week to discuss cloud-loadbalancing autoregistration. I alraedy have an idea on how to implement it :)
<mathiaz> ttx: should the WI be defined for all BP?
<SpamapS> ttx: is there a good wiki page on spec writing somewhere?
<ttx> Feature Definition Freeze is on Jun 17th
<SpamapS> RoAkSoAx: excellent, I look forward to hearing what you have in mind.
<mathiaz> SpamapS: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate
<ttx> I'd expect specs to be filed and approved by May 27th
<hggdh> being rather new, directions on spec writing are also welcome
<mathiaz> ttx: when does the first iteration start?
<mathiaz> hggdh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate
<ttx> mathiaz: but again, haven't synced with Jos on the new release schedule yet
<mathiaz> hggdh: SpamapS: use the SpecTemplate as template for the wiki page
<ttx> mathiaz: it's already started, in a way
<mathiaz> to outline what needs to be done
<RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: :) we'll discuss that later this week since I believe we didn't have enough time at UDS session to discuss it
<mathiaz> not all the sections will be needed
<mathiaz> the focus is on getting the design section written
<ttx> mathiaz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule shows A2 is already started
<hggdh> mathiaz: thanks
<ttx> mathiaz: however, we can consider being in Iteration planning this week and the next
<mathiaz> the implementation section has been superseeded with Work Items in the BP whiteboard
<mathiaz> hggdh: SpamapS: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto for we're tracking work items
<ttx> mathiaz: Pending another direction, consider they are due for approval by May 27th, which means must be submitted for review by May 25th
<smoser> it would be nice if mathiaz would update the spec template to indicate that
<mathiaz> smoser: that == implmentation?
<smoser> yes
<mathiaz> smoser: I don't think it's official yet
<ttx> SpamapS: i'll talk you through the process offline
<mathiaz> smoser: it's more what I've found out last cycle
<ttx> SpamapS: after the meeting
<mathiaz> smoser: ttx may have another opinion on the use of the implementation section
<mathiaz> smoser: moreover the SpecTemplate is a wiki template used throughout the whole Ubuntu project
<ttx> mathiaz: no, I agree with you.
<mathiaz> smoser: some team may choose to still use the implementation section
<smoser> it surely would make sense to have it mentioned there at least "You may replace this with the work item tracker <link here>"
<ttx> mathiaz: Sometime I use that section as a tracker when things are not easily tracked by work items
<ttx> mathiaz: but that's purely optional and depending on the work needed
 * ccheney is here too btw, forgot to announce earlier
<ttx> Otherwise, this is the merging period, so please have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<mathiaz> for me, the design section == what we're trying to do (ie the end goal, the results)
<mathiaz> and the implementation section == how we get there, which step, the plan (-> Work items)
<ttx> mathiaz: for me, the Design discusses how we'll achieve the goal technically, and Implementation/WI show the detailed step by step plan
 * kirkland is having irc proxy issues, but i'm here
<ttx> kirkland: o/
<mathiaz> ttx: right - I think we're in agreement here
<ttx> OK, any other question on that ?
<kirkland> ttx: please repeat any questions that were directed at me up until now
<Daviey> mathiaz / ttx: Can you write a summary on the ML/Wiki?
<ttx> Daviey: As soon as I have confirmed the deadlines with Jos, sure
<mathiaz> I'm planning to use diagrams this cycle (following up on my whiteboard experiement at UDS) :)
<Daviey> super
<ttx> [ACTION] ttx to confirm spec submission deadlines with Jos
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to confirm spec submission deadlines with Jos
<ttx> [ACTIOn] ttx to walk SpamapS through the spec process
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to walk SpamapS through the spec process
<mathiaz> Daviey: are you asking for a summary of the spec guidelines as well?
<Daviey> mathiaz: yes.. in diagram form :)
<ttx> <ttx> Daviey: I expect kirkland to offload some of his UEC specs to the rest of the team
<ttx> <ttx> Daviey: if not, I've one for you :)
<Daviey> mathiaz: There seems to be some confusion/agreement.. and would be nice to have something to refer to.
<ttx> kirkland: ^ (answering Daviey asking for some drafting work)
 * mathiaz opens his 32nd document in Dia
 * Daviey hopes kirkland's irc proxy issues are continuing
 * sommer chuckles
<kirkland> Daviey: yep, i'm here
<kirkland> ttx: will do
<ttx> Any other question on specing/merging ?
<ttx> Moving on to...
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<ttx> hggdh: o/
<hggdh> nothing new on the eastern front
 * hggdh still recovering
<ttx> hggdh: are you going to be assigned the new UEC testing spec ?
<ttx> (or expecting to be assigned)
<hggdh> ttx: I would expect so, and was considering drafting it (with help from mathiaz and smoser)
<ttx> hggdh: ok, makes sense
<ttx> I don't have any other questions... Team ?
<zul> nope
<Daviey> not here
<hggdh> I have one
<hggdh> may I start looking at NTP bugs?
<ttx> hggdh: shoot
<zul> hggdh: im for it
<ttx> hggdh: you may start looking at any bug :)
<hggdh> heh. I meant I will specialise on them, if all agree
<hggdh> and slowly take over the world
<zul> im all for taking over the world
<ttx> hggdh: no problem. You need to start working on package bugfixes anyway, to get exposure
<hggdh> ttx: ack
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> hey
<ttx> hggdh: thanks
<ttx> jjohansen: o/
<jjohansen> so nothing really new on the kernel front
<ttx> I would have been surpised if we had :)
<ttx> I don't have questions or bugs for you yet :)
<mathiaz> I have one - but not really related to -server hw
<jjohansen> well smoser does, but I haven't made any progress on it since yesterday :)
<mathiaz> I just got my new x201
<jjohansen> mathiaz: nice
<jjohansen> what is the issue?
<mathiaz> and the external display isn't working
<ttx> less nice.
<mathiaz> there are also some issues with the graphic driver
<Daviey> well would be a shame to let jjohansen go empty handed.. any news on the kernel issue with my "server" bug #576601?
<mathiaz> there is a bug about it though
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576601 in linux "[MacBookPro 7,1]mcp89 sata link reset fails, no disks detected" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576601
<jjohansen> mathiaz: bug #
<mathiaz> jjohansen: bug 554569
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 554569 in linux "[lucid] Blank screen with KMS on Thinkpad X201 with Arrandale (i915)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554569
<jjohansen> Daviey: sadly no progress I know of there
<mathiaz> jjohansen: ^^ you get a blank screen when to try to install from the iso
<mathiaz> I hope it will be fixed with 10.04.1
<Daviey> jjohansen: thanks
<mathiaz> well - that's all I had for the kernel team
<jjohansen> mathiaz: hrmm okay I'll look into it and get back to you with what I find
 * ttx moves on
<mathiaz> jjohansen: great - thanks
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
<ttx> including Changes discussed at UDS on SRU tracking
<mathiaz> hm - right
<mathiaz> so bug 575945
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575945 in chkrootkit "chkrootkit falsely flags files owned by Firefox 3 and Sun Java 6 valid packages" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575945
<mathiaz> is nominated for hardy
<mathiaz> and two bugs for lucid
<ttx> mathiaz/zul: I propose that we move to the new model starting next week
<zul> ack
<ttx> though explaining it first today would be nice
<mathiaz> ttx: ok - that's going to require some work though
<mathiaz> ttx: ie - some WI and development
<ttx> mathiaz: for the tracking yes, but to replace the nomination review, maybe not ?
<mathiaz> so following up on the sru-process discussion at UDS
<ttx> I meant switching nomination review from meeting to ML
<mathiaz> we'll move the nomination review to the ML
<mathiaz> ttx: a script needs to be develop to generate the list of bugs to review for nominations
<ttx> mathiaz: hmm, ok. Maybe we should wait before switching then
<mathiaz> (which should also include the list of bugs closed)
<ttx> mathiaz: and continue until the spec is written
<mathiaz> ttx: that's why I think we should write a BP for the sru-process as well
<ttx> ack
<mathiaz> as there will be some development work required
<ttx> ok, let's keep the current process until we have a plan for this
<ttx> (and resources assigned to make it work)
<mathiaz> ok
 * ttx looks at this week's nominations
<ttx> bug 575945 is incomplete -> decline
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575945 in chkrootkit "chkrootkit falsely flags files owned by Firefox 3 and Sun Java 6 valid packages" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575945
<mathiaz> ttx: just accepted
<mathiaz> as mdeslaur seems to have a backport ready in a PPA
<ttx> ah, ok
<mathiaz> bug 574704
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574704 in munin "munin-node after update to Lucid still in /etc/rc*.d, invoked twice" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574704
<ttx> I'll defer to check on this one
<ttx> to Chuck
<zul> that one needs more testing
<mathiaz> zul: SRU worth?
<ttx> zul: you intend to SRU it ?
<zul> yeah i do
 * mathiaz accepts the bug then
<mathiaz> bug 576910
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 576910 in php5 "Regression: getPathInfo() doesn't return parent info" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576910
<zul> i havent seen that one
<zul> yeah i can see that one being sru
<ttx> I'd say yes
<Daviey> would be nice if the reporter gave an example of something it broke.
<zul> freaking php ;)
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<mathiaz> ^^ anything SRU worth on this list?
<ttx> mathiaz: nothing from me
<zul> most of those i seen sru's for already
<zul> ie dovecot
<mathiaz> alright - then that's all
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ttx> Anything/anyone ?
<Daviey> sommer: If you want a hand with your doc's spec, do shout out for it. :)
 * ttx introduces SpamapS, a new team member that will care about our Web/Ops stack
<Daviey> SpamapS: o/
<sommer> Daviey: will do... there's some good discussion on the ubuntu-doc list at the moment
 * ttx doesn't introduce Daviey, a new team member that everyone already knows.
<Daviey> sommer: I'll follow it.
<zul> boo
<Daviey> bah
<zul> hehe
<mathiaz> and ccheney that joins the server team for some time as well
<ccheney> yea! :-)
<ttx> sommer: I was wondering if, as discussed at UDS, you'd like a weekly slot in the team meeting (like QA and kernel ?)
<ttx> mathiaz, ccheney: indeed ! Too many new people, I get lost
<SpamapS> Hi everyone. :)
<SpamapS> sorry I was still reading list of bugs for SRU consideration.
<ttx> SpamapS: you have to be faster :P
<sommer> ttx: maybe... I'll have more time to stay up to date this cycle so I think we'll see how it goes
<SpamapS> ttx: Thats precisely what the bus drivers were trying to teach us wasn't it?
<Daviey> ttx: can we go home now? :)
<SpamapS> Daviey: meaning "can I take my pants off now?"
<smoser> i think it should be clarifid that Davey and SpamapS are new members to the Canonical Server Team.
<smoser> Daviey is by no means new to the Ubuntu Server teeam
<Daviey> SpamapS: you need to check your US to UK translations. :)
<ttx> Daviey: ok, ok
<SpamapS> Daviey: I'm using Benny Hill's US<->UK dictionary.. is that not a good one?
<ttx> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<ccheney> smoser: Also, I am a member of the Canonical Desktop Team on loan to Canonical Server Team for this release cycle.
<ttx> Next week, same time, same place
<Daviey> :(
<SpamapS> RoAkSoAx: do you want to chat about load balancing now or later?
<ttx> Daviey: you can go to your dinner now :)
 * sommer +1
<hggdh> heh. For me, lunch
<Daviey> \o/
<RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: as you prefer
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:45.
<juancarlospaco2> Holas
<juancarlospaco2> Hello
<juancarlospaco2> Bonjour
<PabloRubianes> hola/hello
<juancarlospaco2> traje mate
<jorgevazq1> juancarlospaco2: hay forma de que me llegue hasta Mexico=
<jorgevazq1> ?
<jorgevazq1> jajaja
<unimix> hey PabloRubianes, juancarlospaco2, jorgevazq1 !
<leogg> juancarlospaco2, paselo nomas :)
<PabloRubianes> hola unimix
<juancarlospaco2> solo si hay forma de que unos Tacos lleguen hasta Argentina...
<gnunezr> jorgevazq1: Lo puedes conseguir en el palacio de hierro, en la secciÃ³n de "Delicatessen", si mal no recuerdo
<jorgevazq1> juancarlospaco2: hmm
<jorgevazq1> lo pensare
<juancarlospaco2> :)
<jorgevazq1> jajaja
<jorgevazq1> gnunezr: en serio? pero no estoy en la ciudad de Mexico
<jorgevazq1> estoy un bastante mÃ¡s al norte
<gnunezr> Palacio de hierro hay en todos lados, no?
<jorgevazq1> gnunezr: nope
<gnunezr> Uh... Prissa?
<jorgevazq1> creo que nada mÃ¡s en DF, GDL y MTY
<jorgevazq1> Prissa?
<jorgevazq1> esa no la conozco
<gnunezr> Ellos no siempre tienen
<jorgevazq1> hmm
<juancarlospaco2> bienvenida sofia
<jorgevazq1> buscarÃ© en Sanborn's
<juancarlospaco2> welcome sofia
<jorgevazq1> saludos sofiavitale
<sofiavitale> hola a todos
<juancarlospaco2> :)
<gnunezr> Uh, buena suerte :p
<jorgevazq1> jajajaja el juancarlospaco2 todo bilingÃ¼e
<jorgevazq1> gracias gnunezr
<juancarlospaco2> sep
<jorgevazq1> PabloRubianes: y es la primera vez que intentan oficializarse?
<PabloRubianes> si jorgevazq1
<jorgevazq1> oh, deja hago un cambio
<juancarlospaco2> hablo espaÃ±ol, ingles, klingon, na'vi, python
<juancarlospaco2> XD
<unimix> juancarlospaco2, lol !
<slangasek> juancarlospaco2: tendrÃ¡s que decirnos quÃ© tal el language-pack-gnome-tlh
<juancarlospaco2> :)
<jorgevazq> PabloRubianes: pues mucha suerte
<jorgevazq> nosotros es la segunda vez, a ver cÃ³mo nos va
<juancarlospaco2> hay que pagar derecho de piso
<juancarlospaco2> jajjjajajaj chiste
<juancarlospaco2> XD
<juancarlospaco2> que fea esa palabra eh...
<PabloRubianes> gracias jorgevazq
<paultag> Hey all
<jorgevazq> hi paultag
<paultag> we will be starting in one sec -- hold on
<paultag> :)
<jorgevazq> paultag: ok
<PabloRubianes> hey paultag!
<jorgevazq> umm
<paultag> howdy PabloRubianes :)
<jorgevazq> ubuntu-mx contact should be here soon
<PabloRubianes> paultag: :S :D
<jorgevazq> he was literally rushing home from work
<paultag> As per usual Ubuntu protocol we will be starting this meeting just a few minutes late :)
<jorgevazq> howdy, jamesjedimaster
<jamesjedimaster> hi jorgevazq
<jorgevazq> paultag: thanks, pal!
<juancarlospaco2> lol
<huats> who is late ?
<huats> :)
<huats> not me:D
<popey> :)
<juancarlospaco2> not late, just different UTC   :)
<juancarlospaco2> XD
<paultag> Ha!
<paultag> UTC+0010
<popey> ok, lets get started
<jorgevazq> 'k... brb, gotta brush my teeth... I kinda feel weird to speak in public right after mealtime
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<popey> So first item on the agenda is Uruguay LoCo Team reapproval..
<popey> er approval :)
<paultag> there it is ;)
<PabloRubianes> Here
<popey> hey PabloRubianes
<PabloRubianes> hello popey
<popey> anyone else here for Uruguay?
<efebe> i'm from uruguay ;)
<PabloRubianes> yes sofiavitale and Julin digan hola
<Julin> hola!!!!
<sofiavitale> hola!
<Julin> vamo arriba ubuntu uruguay!
<Julin> eso se podia?
<popey> :)
<PabloRubianes> most people is working at this time here
<itnet7> PabloRubianes: same here
<juancarlospaco2> yeah im "working"
<popey> :)
<juancarlospaco2> :)
<popey> PabloRubianes: do you log your irc meetings?
<PabloRubianes> the important ones yes, and the others we provide a sumary on the website
<popey> I see you hold events recycling computers, how successful has that been?
<paultag> Yeah, Hardwaraiser, what's that about
<PabloRubianes> very nice
<PabloRubianes> we try to ask for unused hardware and put together computers
<PabloRubianes> then we give them to poor schools in the rural areas
<paultag> PabloRubianes, about how many machines do you donate each year?
<PabloRubianes> about 5
<paultag> outstanding
<popey> I love the Centros de Distribucion idea!
<PabloRubianes> every year, we are about to start this year
<popey> thats brilliant
<PabloRubianes> popey: the thing is here internet is not so fast
<PabloRubianes> we have to give alternatives to download
<paultag> PabloRubianes, can you tell me a bit about some of your past events? Have you held installfests and the like?
<popey> Sure, but i love the idea of people burning CDs for the price of a blank disc
<PabloRubianes> yes we been part of the last two Years "Flisol"
<huats> PabloRubianes, that was something I was about to ask you, if you exchange with other Locos
<huats> that is great
<PabloRubianes> there you take your computer and a voluntary install Ubuntu for you
<PabloRubianes> huats: lately we start to work on #ubuntu-es-locos we are trying to work with other locos which speak english
<PabloRubianes> spanish sorry
<paultag> :)
<paultag> PabloRubianes, do you guys participate in translation work?
<huats> PabloRubianes, yeah I have figure out
<juancarlospaco2> i was, but the translator team rejected me :(
<PabloRubianes> not many people here know english that's the problem
<PabloRubianes> juancarlospaco2: me too
<paultag> Ah
<itnet7> PabloRubianes: what are your teams plans for the near future?
<PabloRubianes> we are going to publish a magazine
<itnet7> I see some listed, but what I mean is what are you most passionate about
<PabloRubianes> and form a Education Team in order to give online courses
<juancarlospaco2> mayor colaboration with Bleachbit, until translator member becomes mandatory, they reject me, cant collaborate anymore
<PabloRubianes> and lately education institutions are asking us to give talks to parents and teachers
<itnet7> Very cool
<PabloRubianes> the Plan Ceibal was a huge success for linux here
<huats> Have you been part of the global jam ?
<huats> or do you plan to ?
<PabloRubianes> no, we have problems to find a place, without having to pay, but the next one I think we are going to join
<paultag> PabloRubianes, how do you plan to change how you operate if you become an approved team and have access to the resources of an approved team
<huats> PabloRubianes, for the record I have done my first one in a bar with an internet connection
<huats> it might be an idea...
<paultag> huats, +1 !!
<popey> http://www.ubuntu.org.uy/main/?q=node/1304  who made those tutorials?
<PabloRubianes> huats: that's good idea
<huats> PabloRubianes, the idea behind jam was a group of people gathering around a pizza to ork on bugs...
<huats> so you can even do that in someone's house... I think efrain did that:)
<PabloRubianes> huats: we are weird we held the release party on a university and gave talks
<juancarlospaco2> mmm pizza
<huats> PabloRubianes, why do you say weird ?
<PabloRubianes> there was a too formal party
<paultag> Bah!
<popey> :)
<paultag> I did that too. It's awesome
<popey> each to their own
<paultag> PabloRubianes, how do you plan to change how you operate if you become an approved team and have access to the resources of an approved team
<PabloRubianes> no, I think we are gonna provide with the cds canonical send to the approved locos to the Centros de Distribucion
<PabloRubianes> but we set a course when we form the community council and we are gonna stick to it
<itnet7> PabloRubianes: popey was interested in who created the videos, were you involved, or is there a part of your team that contributes through tutorials?
<PabloRubianes> no I want't part
<itnet7> http://www.ubuntu.org.uy/main/?q=node/1304
<paultag> PabloRubianes, do you know who created them?
<PabloRubianes> I think Julin found them on other page and put it there,
<popey> useful resource
<itnet7> That is still really cool!!!
<paultag> It would be really cool to get more of those
<paultag> PabloRubianes, being part of the Ubuntu Beginners Team, you could really help new users who es :)
<PabloRubianes> yes they are really good
<paultag> only speak es *
<PabloRubianes> this videos are made by a member of our loco http://sites.google.com/a/ubuntu.org.uy/montevideo/tutoriales/video-tutoriales
<paultag> well done
<popey> i like the separate sites for regions of Uy
<popey> ok we ready to vote on Uruguay team approval?
<itnet7> yes!
<paultag> sure am
<leogg> yep
<popey> I'm going to +1
<leogg> +1 here
<paultag> +1 here, too
<itnet7> +1 for me as well!
<paultag> huats, *poke*
<itnet7> :-)
<huats> +1 too
<paultag> :)
<huats> thanks paultag
<paultag> huats, sure thing :)
<popey> win
<popey> congratulations PabloRubianes
<huats> congrats !
<PabloRubianes> THanks!!!!
<paultag> Congrats PabloRubianes! :)
<leogg> vamo uruguay! :)
<jorgevazq> felicidades Uruguay!
<itnet7> Congrulations to ubuntu-uy!!
<PabloRubianes> but's not only me!
<leogg> congrats guys
<jorgevazq> keep up the good work
<gnunezr> Arriba el paisito!!! :D
<unimix> congratulations PabloRubianes and the Ubuntu-uy team ! You deserve it ! Good work !
<efebe> congrulations :)
<itnet7> great job, and we look forward to the future and what your team will achieve
<pcapeluto> Que grande Uruguay!!!!!!!!  GRACIAS PABLO!!!!!!
<paultag> aye, we have high hopes :)
<PabloRubianes> :D
 * popey has invited ubuntu-uy to locoteams-approved
<efebe> muy bien pablo y el resto de ubuntu-uy felicidades :)
<popey> PabloRubianes: you should get an invite mail
<PabloRubianes> thanks a lot to the people who help me to make the approval application
<magu42> Gracias Pablo!!! thanks the council  :-)
<paultag> thank you guys :)
<itnet7> magu42: thank you
<magu42> itnet7Â» :-)
<PabloRubianes> popey: ok!
<pcapeluto> Thank you very much at all, the whole community waiting for this moment
<Toluxero> clap clap
<sofiavitale> thanks!!!
<juancarlospaco2> Uruguay pays the beer
<juancarlospaco2> lol   XD
<Toluxero> xD
<pcapeluto> jajajajaj
<popey> right, who's up next?
<leogg> juancarlospaco2, +1
<jorgevazq> wiii
<jorgevazq> Mexico's next!
<Toluxero> jorgevazq, relax
<popey> :)
<rkgarcia> XD
 * jorgevazq excited, sorry
<itnet7> jorgevazq's excited, now worries :-)
<itnet7> no worries
<itnet7> I meant *
<jorgevazq> hohoho
<Toluxero> hahaha
<itnet7> :-P
<Toluxero> lalala
 * paultag is reading
 * jorgevazq is anxious
<paultag> hold on Mexico, we're still here :)
<popey> So Toluxero, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMxTeam/Eventos/Flisol2010 can you tell us about this event?
<Toluxero> popey, ok, this event is the "festival latinoamericano de software libre"
<itnet7> Toluxero: how does your team participate?
<popey> what was theplan?
<Toluxero> in this event, me represent a the community
 * Toluxero is nervous
<juancarlospaco2> :s
<itnet7> Do you help with installations, or recruit for your LoCo, or help users with issues?
<itnet7> Don't be nervous you are among friends :-)
<Toluxero> ok
<Toluxero> sorry
<popey> we need a bit more detail I think.
<Toluxero> I participated in both installing and conferences
<Toluxero> in this event
<Toluxero> and distribution of CD's
<jamesjedimaster> talking about the advantages of ubuntu
<Toluxero>  I was also part of the organization staff at one of the Sites
<popey> cool.
<popey> Where would you say most people in the community "hang out"? forums? irc? mailing list? somewhere else?
<jorgevazq> popey: yeah, he even designed Barcoded tickets and all
<popey> heh, neat!
<jamesjedimaster> most people enters the forum for Q&A
<jorgevazq> although IRC is a nice place  to socialize ;)
<jamesjedimaster> we provide some answers according to our experiences
<huats> Do you have developpers (I mean Ubuntu developpers) in your team ?
<jamesjedimaster> and when users need faster answers, they can find us at irc
<popey> do you get many new people in the forums / irc?
<Toluxero> popey, in the forums
<itnet7> Can you talk a little about your Podcast, and has that helped the Team to grow, and raise awareness for your LoCo and Ubuntu?
<jorgevazq> I can talk about the podcast
<jorgevazq> that's the subteam I guide
<jorgevazq> well, we have been downloaded over 1,000 times, counting all three episodes
<juancarlospaco2> i need to sudo reboot will be back...
<jorgevazq> we believe it has helped us to be known
<popey> any more episodes planned?
<jorgevazq> popey: yes
<jorgevazq> actually
<jorgevazq> we're planning a special episode for Lucid Lynx
<itnet7> Nice!
<leogg> jorgevazq, cool
<jorgevazq> we plan to gather many types of "ubuntu users"
<jorgevazq> such as students
<jorgevazq> designers
<jorgevazq> programmers
<jamesjedimaster> engineers
<jorgevazq> internet-cafÃ© owners
<jorgevazq> and so forth
<Nuun> musicians
<jorgevazq> so that they can actually share why they liked ubuntu (specially Lucid), and how it makes their life easier
<huats> Are you planning to participate in the global jam ?
<jlbrito> Hola
<jamesjedimaster> huats: we haven't talk about the jam, but sometime in the near future :)
<Toluxero> huats, it  is in our plans to do so
<paultag> jorgevazq, What do you see as the strongest part of your team?
<paultag> erm jamesjedimaster *
<jorgevazq> paultag: the loco contact is Toluxero
<paultag> sorry! I've been reading
<paultag> Toluxero, to you, then -- What do you see as the strongest part of your team?
<Toluxero> paultag, the support to new users
<Toluxero> in the forum
<jamesjedimaster> I think the experience of old linux users, and the curiosity of the new ones
<Toluxero> the forum is the door to anothers projects of the team
<paultag> :)
<jorgevazq> and they later join us on IRC, or other teams
<Toluxero> in projects: we are also planning a school-oriented project
<Toluxero> right now, the doc team is working on a knowledge database
<huats> do you have plans to try to grow your community ?
<Toluxero> huats, sure!
<huats> can you elaborate a bit more ?
<huats> :)
<Toluxero> we want to create local communities in every state
<Toluxero> actually a recent community was created: ubuntu-mx-df
<jorgevazq> df stands for "distrito federal", the official name of Mexico City
<Toluxero> (rest 31)
<huats> and what will be the role of each of that local community ?
<juancarlospaco2> :)
<jorgevazq> well, each local community may hold its own events
<huats> ok
<jorgevazq> which would be more succesfull, for distance is currently one of our biggest obstacles
<jorgevazq> in that aspect
<huats> jorgevazq, ok
<jorgevazq> we would also expand and disclose ubuntu trhoughout the country more effectively, for every region would have its own strategy (according to their situation)
<leogg> jorgevazq, Toluxero, dentro del council sentimos que han hecho un excelente trabajo como comunidad, pero pensamos que podrÃ­an necesitar algo de ayuda para fortalecer el grupo y seguir creciendo
<leogg> esto no es un no definitivo de parte nuestra, sino que nos gustarÃ­a que trabajarÃ¡n un poco mÃ¡s en las Ã¡reas que estÃ¡n dÃ©biles
<toluxero_> sorry
<jorgevazq> network issues with toluxero_
<leogg> piensan ustedes que la comunidad ubuntu-mx se podrÃ­a beneficiarcon algo de ayuda de nuestra parte?
<Toluxero> leogg, claro, yo no se cuales sean las observaciones. Durante el aÃ±o que he estado trabajando
<Toluxero> he visto como crece la comunidad
<jamesjedimaster> por supuesto, tal vez estamos viciados y no vemos todo lo que nos falta por hacer desde dentro
<Toluxero> como pide mÃ¡s cosas, y como necesitamos de mas ayuda
<leogg> Toluxero, estÃ¡n haciendo un excelente trabajo :)
<Toluxero> leogg, acabo de tomar el contacto y realmente mi ingles es muy malo
<leogg> pero hay lugar para mejorar un par de cosas
<leogg> Toluxero, no hay problema
<leogg> podemos hablar en espaÃ±ol :)
<jorgevazq> leogg: como cuales? para ir aplicandonos en eso
<leogg> Toluxero has recently taken the leadership in ubuntu-mx
<jorgevazq> la traduccion nos detuvo un poco en la junta
<Toluxero> leogg, de hecho es un cambio que se hizo, para empezar a quitar vicios
<leogg> jorgevazq, necesitan un poco mÃ¡s de actividad sostenida
<Toluxero> se quiere promover que haya mas ubuntu members
<leogg> documentar un poco mejor el trabajo
<leogg> Toluxero, eso tambiÃ©n, promover mÃ¡s el trabajo hacÃ­a afuera
<leogg> Toluxero, jorgevazq, me gustarÃ­a ayudarles en ese aspecto para ver si podemos retomar la oficializaciÃ³n dentro de un par de meses
<leogg> si a ustedes les parece bien?
<Toluxero> leogg, es la segunda vez q lo hacemos.
<Toluxero> leogg, hemos puesto mucho empeÃ±o en hacerlo
<juancarlospaco2> :(
<jorgevazq> 2009 was a though year for us
<leogg> Toluxero, se mira que han hecho un gran trabajo
<Toluxero> ademÃ¡s de que a veces es muy complicado por la situacion em mexico
<leogg> a veces toma un poco de tiempo reconstruir las cosas
<jorgevazq> H1N1 was a real hit to many events
<Toluxero> el aÃ±o pasado fue muy dificil, todo el aÃ±o se fue gracias a la influenza.
<leogg> Toluxero, me lo imagino
<Toluxero> y este aÃ±o ni se diga en invierno restringieron de nuevo los eventos masivos
<juancarlospaco2> sudo kill -9 h1n1
<Toluxero> y quitaron la restriccion aproximadamente 6 semanas
<leogg> Toluxero, jorgevazq, yo les recomendarÃ­a que se tomen su tiempo en reconstruir el equipo
<leogg> y que intentemos de nuevo en un par de meses
<leogg> yo estoy a su disposiciÃ³n para ayudarles si lo necesitan
<rkgarcia> leogg++
<itnet7> Toluxero: I am here for you as well
<itnet7> ping me anytime
 * Toluxero is sad, too sad
<jorgevazq> gracias por el ofrecimiento leogg
<leogg> Toluxero, don't be... it's a great opportunity to build a new and strong team
<Nuun> ...so?
<leogg> jorgevazq, siempre a la orden :)
<jorgevazq> Nuun: que no
<jorgevazq> leogg: vale, dejanos asimilar todo esto, estamos en contacto
<jorgevazq> que tenemos mucho trabajo que hacer
<jorgevazq> :(
<Nuun> that's ok, it's a pleasure.
<leogg> jorgevazq, claro... buscame en cualquier momento
<juancarlospaco2> :)
<PabloRubianes> si a mi tambien... estamos todos para ayudar
<itnet7> jorgevazq: I am confident that if you take leogg up on his offer, that he can help bring to light some of the great work you have done, where it's not so obvious now
<popey> thanks leogg and everyone else for coming.
<leogg> thank you guys
<jorgevazq> see ya later someday soon
<paultag> thanks guys!
<jorgevazq> itnet7: probably, but again, we still need to figure out some things by ourselves before getting help from outside
<Toluxero> jorgevazq, relax please
<jorgevazq> I am relaxed, I'm just saying we got to strategize before jumping
<paultag> jorgevazq, we are here to help in any way
<jorgevazq> ok
<jorgevazq> thank you all
<jorgevazq> really
<paultag> thank you guys. Keep up the good work
<jorgevazq> paultag: count on it
<juancarlospaco2> :)
<paultag> Alright. That's it. Thanks for coming everyone. Have a great day!
<jorgevazq> ci vediamo, tutti!
<juancarlospaco2> esteeeeem...
<PabloRubianes> Bye and thanks all!!
<juancarlospaco2> :)
<juancarlospaco2> vuelvo a ed a escribir unas cosas...
<pcapeluto> Nuevamente gracias a todos, una alegrÃ­a muy grande nos han dado esta noche, muchas gracias, estamos en contacto, Thanks again to everyone, a great joy they have given us tonight, thank you very much, we are in contact
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-19
<cjwatson> hi all
<robbiew> o/
 * barry waves
<ev> hiya
<mvo> hello
 * cjwatson quickly creates https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0519
<cjwatson> Keybuk,doko,psurbhi: ?
<doko> hi
<psurbhi> hi
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0519
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0519
<cjwatson> right, so not much of an agenda today, just wanted a quick sync after UDS mostly in case anyone had any unresolved issues
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<cjwatson> >>> print ', '.join(order)
<cjwatson> Keybuk, barry, ev, cjwatson, doko, mvo
<Keybuk> This week I have been mostly catching up on sleep, laundry and UDS notes.
<Keybuk> Turning the latter into roadmaps and work items.
<Keybuk> Expect to be doing that for much of the next week too.
<Keybuk> --
<doko> it shouldn't take Kebuk as long as to place a settelemnt ;)
<barry> done: created python versions for maverick wiki page; began discussions on debian-python and python-dev; computer janitor triage and prep for v2 upload. todo: update blueprints w/work items; build python 2.7 and create ppa; build and upload cj 2.0.1; begin planing for pep 384 (stable abi) [EOT]
<ev> writing up blueprints, spent some time learning kvm-autotest, experimenting with sikuli and hudson per foundations-m-upgrade-and-install-testing.
<ev> partially blocked: writing up installer redesign spec.  Spoke with Ivanka and she now knows that it needs to be ready by feature definition freeze.
<ev> --
<mvo> kvm-autotest \o/
<ev> sikuli is prettier
<cjwatson> done: writing up specs, catching up on grub development (sent btrfs probe branch upstream for review), some merge catch-up
<cjwatson> todo: finish specs and get stuck into foundations-m-cd-boot, I think
<cjwatson> --
<doko> done: fix toolchain build failures, start i486->i686 transition on i386
<barry> ev: have you looked at xpresser?
<doko> todo: fix failures for this transition ...
<doko> --
<mvo> did: uds
<mvo> will do: spec/workitems writing, software-center code review/merges, SRUs for update-manager
<mvo> (eof)
<mvo> ev: nice, checking it out now
<ev> barry: oo, not yet.  Added to my list :)
<barry> ev: :)  mvo: i wonder if we can/should get a little design team love for cj?  we have a few usability bugs opened
<cjwatson> oh, that's it for the lightning round isn't it, unless robbiew has anything to add
<cjwatson> can't get used to this smaller team
<Keybuk> if only we had more headcount <g>
<barry> :)
<robbiew> yeah...yeah
<cjwatson> I don't have anything in my mailbox by way of extra agenda items
<doko> cjwatson: didn't you miss new members?
<cjwatson> psurbhi is still technically kernel team, but lurking I gather :-)
 * mvo waves to psurbhi
 * psurbhi waves to mvo
<mvo> ev: no debs for sikuli yet it seems?
<ev> mvo: yeah, not yet.  Just grab the zip and openjdk-6-jre, libcv4, libcvaux4, and libhighgui4
<ev> oh and a massive amount of RAM, as it's Java.
<mvo> heh :)
 * barry visits newegg.com
<ev> lol
<cjwatson> psurbhi is going to be joining us shortly, with a strong filesystems background, and will be starting out working on userspace pieces we need to support btrfs properly
<ev> so it's official?
<barry> psurbhi: \o/
<psurbhi> :-)
<ev> psurbhi: welcome to the team!
<psurbhi> ev, thank you :)
<cjwatson> I'm sure you'll all help her out with any questions she may have :-)
<cjwatson> from the lightning round, it doesn't look as though anyone particularly needs urging to get their specs drafted, but just in case, <urge>
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Good news
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
<Keybuk> cjwatson: on the missing btrfs spec, the audio is up on the website now
<cjwatson> looks like we have a viable workaround for the dpkg fsync issues, so we should be able to get that into -proposed this wewek
<cjwatson> week
<cjwatson> Keybuk: oh cool, thanks - videos.ubuntu.com?
<Keybuk> http://uds.ubuntu.com/audio/uds-m/
<mvo> dpkg> nice!
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://uds.ubuntu.com/audio/uds-m/
<cjwatson> excellent.  shame I'll have to listen to myself talking. :)
<Keybuk> elmo said he'd have a list of the videod sessions that are still to be encoded
<mvo> language-selector got a dbus based design and is ready for the 21th century now
<Keybuk> cjwatson: you can listen to yourself being wrong on the Internet and shout at yourself through your computer? :p
<cjwatson> more like listen to my voice being about half an octave higher than it sounds on the inside
<cjwatson> but there you go
<Keybuk> yeah, I never realised how squeaky my voice is
<ev> I never realized how much I sound like Barry White
<barry> mvo: i didn't make that session, but i tried to get to that for lucid and failed.  i should probably work on that for mav
<cjwatson> mvo: l-s> and lots of time to land it for maverick :-)
<mvo> cjwatson: heh :) indeed!
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<cjwatson> (because this meeting has been entirely carefully agendaed items, oh yes)
<cjwatson> robbiew: so are you expecting to stay with us for a while now? :-)
<mvo> wb robbiew btw
<cjwatson> oh, indeed
<robbiew> heh...if a while is a few weeks...then yes
<robbiew> lol
<cjwatson> internet time
<robbiew> but you can rest assured that you will have a dedicated manager from here on out
<ev> anyone else want to use mumble more, once it's transitioned to openid?
<robbiew> ev: it has transitioned ;)
<cjwatson> doko: re the i686 switch, is there anything we need to be aware of in individual packages?
<ev> ORLY
<barry> ev: just announced
<barry> ev: are you thinking of mumble instead of irc for this meeting?
<ev> cool, time to hit UK not-quite-newegg for a bluetooth headset
<ev> that would be cool, but painful to make notes of
<barry> yeah
<doko> cjwatson: need to investigate source packages. DEB_*_GNU_CPU and DEB_*_GNU_TYPE did change
<doko> on my list for tomorrow
<cjwatson> wow, that will be fun
<cjwatson> (I guess that was necessary?)
<cjwatson> dpkg upstream asked me about your dpkg change, I hadn't noticed it before then :)
<doko> that should be easy, just grepping rules files
<doko> will be needed for debian as well, either i585 or i686
<cjwatson> mumble/irc: I think irc is still likely to be best for recorded meetings, but mumble looks good for social chat and occasional, well, mumblings about what you're doing, the sort of thing you might say to the person sitting next to you
<cjwatson> but I don't know, I expect it will evolve over time
<doko> ?
<cjwatson> https://wiki.canonical.com/Mumble
<cjwatson> ok, anything else before we adjourn?
<barry> if anyone has something nice to add to this, it would be great! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BarryWarsaw/MyApplication
<barry> mvo: thanks!
<cjwatson> ok, I think we're done, thanks all
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:33.
<mvo> thanks
<barry> thanks!
<psurbhi> cjwatson, thanks
<ev> thanks!
<Aquina> 'lo
 * ara waves
 * marjo waves
<sbeattie> hey all!
<jtatum-phone> o/
 * charlie-tca waves
<marjo> #startmeeting QA Team Meeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is marjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pedro_> hello!
<marjo> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<marjo>     * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<marjo>     * Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<marjo>     * QA meetings reorg - ara
<marjo> * Announce next chairperson
<marjo> [TOPIC] SRU Testing -- sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU Testing -- sbeattie
<sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past 2 weeks (since 2010-05-05):
<sbeattie> * lucid: 44 new packages in -proposed
<sbeattie>      and 61 packages pushed to -updates
<sbeattie> * karmic: 5 new packages in -proposed (gdm, landscape-client, libatasmart, pastebinit, update-manager)
<sbeattie>       and 5 packages pushed to -updates (bansheelyricsplugin, boost1.38, etoys, gdm, landscape-client)
<sbeattie> * jaunty: 2 new packages in -proposed (landscape-client, pastebinit)
<sbeattie>       and 2 packages pushed to -updates (etoys, landscape-client)
<sbeattie> * hardy: 1 package pushed to -updates (nfs-utils)
<sbeattie> * dapper: no SRU activity
<sbeattie> Thanks to ionospheric, Paul Elliott (omahn), Mario Limonciello (superm1), fx5, Hideki Sakurada, Ville Ranki (cos^), Henning Moll, Marco De Paolini, Guenter Roeck, arand, Benjamin Kay (benkay86), Martin BoÅ¾iÄ, leighman, Plafuro, tankdriver, Ron S, Irihapeti, neutrinux, Roel van Os, Paul Elliott (omahn), Thorsten Reinbold, Dmitry Shachnev, Frank Groeneveld, Jonathan Carter (highvoltage), Ken Weill P. Lumacad, Daniel Richard G.
<sbeattie> , Pekka HÃ¤mÃ¤lÃ¤inen, daniele80, Moritz Kobel, Paolo4500, Scott Howard (showard), besson3c, Herco van Brug, Stephen Day, Simon SteinbeiÃ (ochosi), johnny b, WiNeOS, Fabio Marconi (njin), Imre Gergely (cemc), Chris Guirl, hhfischer, Jussi Kekkonen, Daniel Che, jamboarder and others for testing SRUs this week.
<sbeattie> SRUs for lucid are still going strong, as expected.
<marjo> sbeattie: your prediction for increased SRU testing came true! thx to all SRU testers!
<marjo> sbeattie: anything else?
<sbeattie> Indeed, thanks to everyone above, and others I missed; in particular Paul Elliott (omahn) has been quite active in testing a number of SRUs
<sbeattie> That's all I've got.
<marjo> thx sbeattie
<marjo> [TOPIC] Bug Day status - pvillavi
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Day status - pvillavi
<bdmurray> sbeattie: one thing we talked about at UDS was sending stuff to Ubuntu Weekly News
<bdmurray> sbeattie: perhaps your report would be a good thing to send?
<sbeattie> bdmurray: oh, that's probably a good idea.
<pedro_> Hi!, not much on the topic, nothing from previous weeks, but we're having a bug day based on Update Manager tomorrow : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100520
<marjo> pedro_ thx for the announcement
<pedro_> Some folks already started to work on it, if you have a few spare minutes please consider on join us ;-)
<ara> I am sure mvo will be happy to help triagers ;-)
<pedro_> i'm sure mvo will be really happy ;-)
<pedro_> ara yeah!
<marjo> pedro_ anything else?
<pedro_> marjo, nope, that's all from here
<marjo> [TOPIC] QA meetings reorg - ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA meetings reorg - ara
 * highvoltage admits to only testing his own SRU :p
<ara> So, in case you haven't seen the email, we talked at UDS about improving meetings
<ara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/ImprovingCommunication
<ara> charlie-tca and others find difficult to attend this meeting, so we are planning in rotate the meeting times, to see if it helps
<ara> every other week, the meeting will be at 17:00UTC, as usual, but the other meeting time is up to you
<ara> Paolo has set a poll to see which time is best for the team
<ara> please vote at http://doodle.com/qskx79utvgaa9ubv if you haven't done so
<persia> When we had more regular MOTU meetings, we found that it was useful to do three times, staggered by 8 hours, to ensure everyone could attend sometime.
<ara> [LINK] http://doodle.com/qskx79utvgaa9ubv
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://doodle.com/qskx79utvgaa9ubv
<sbeattie> ara: I'm willing to try it, but I've found varying meeting times for teams where it was less crucial for me to attend meant that I never knew when the meeting was, and didn't attend any of them.
<persia> Also, given the stated goals, a doodle poll in advance will likely only catch those already finding this time awkward, rather than those who might be attracted with a different time.
<ara> sbeattie, there will be reminders to the list ;-)
<sbeattie> (e.g. the MOTU meetings being a prime example of me not knowing when they are)
<ara> sbeattie, the idea is always wednesdays with only 2 different times
<persia> Well, none have been held in a couple years, which has something to do with that :)
<ara> every other week
<ara> and send reminders to the mailing list a couple of days ahead (asking for topics to cover, as well)
<sbeattie> yeah, that sounds good.
<ara> sbeattie, anyway, if we never test it, we will never know if it works. if it doesn't, we can always go back to the good old times
<marjo> ara: agree, let's try something different and see if it helps
<fader_> ara: There was also some talk of having different people chair the meeting; is that still planned as well?
<ara> fader_, indeed, if we rotate the chair person, it is likely that he/she will send notes, reminders and the alike
<ara> i.e. I am sure marjo will send the summary to the mailing list ;-)
<marjo> fader_ yes, that's on the agenda for today
<fader_> Sorry, getting ahead of things :)
<marjo> fader_ please try to follow the agenda and mind the chairperson
<sbeattie> Are there other things that we feel need to be adjusted with the meetings?
<sbeattie> (besides schedule, rotating chair)
<fader_> I really liked the idea of inviting other teams, locos, etc. to talk at the meetings
<fader_> Cross-pollination and all that
<marjo> sbeattie: i think the topics are most important to increase participation
<marjo> fader_ that would contribute to the interesting topics objective, but we have to find a good meeting time first so people can actually attend
<fader_> Details, details
<persia> I think it's better to get folks from other places to be *part** of this team also, rather than specifically inviting them to speak.
<fader_> persia: Indeed; bad phrasing on my part.  I think the goal was to have a tighter collaboration between QA and other teams, and one way to do that is to encourage more communication
<fader_> Not that the goal in and of itself is to have guest lecturers or anything
<marjo> ara: anything else you'd like to add to this topic?
<ara> marjo, no, thx
<marjo> [TOPIC] New topics?
<MootBot> New Topic:  New topics?
<marjo> folks: any other topics for today's meeting?
<marjo> if not, next week's meeting chairperson is ara
<marjo> thx ara
<marjo> from now on, we will rotate the chairperson for each meeting
<marjo> let's see how well that works and adjust accordingly
<sbeattie> when do we want to start the time alternation?
<marjo> sbeattie: ASAP, but let's get through the poll first, of course
<marjo> sbeattie: did i answer your question, or did i misunderstand it?
<sbeattie> I just wasn't sure if we intended to use the result of the poll for next week's meeting.
<marjo> sbeattie: ah ok
<marjo> ara: that's an obvious topic for next week's agenda
<ara> marjo, sure
<marjo> sbeattie: is that good enough?
<sbeattie> sure
<marjo> ok, if there are no other new topics or questions, i propose we end the meeting
<marjo> going once
<marjo> going twice
<marjo> meeting adjourned
<marjo> thx everyone!
<fader_> Thanks all
<ara> cheerio!
<jtatum-phone> Great meeting. Thanks everyone
<marjo> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:27.
<hggdh> ~o~
<mhall119> am I late?
<bencrisford> mhall119: nope
<bencrisford> perfect timing in fact :)
<mhall119> wow, how about that
<highvoltage> heh, first time for everything :)
<highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting time!
<highvoltage> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda as usual
<highvoltage> seems like it's just the 3 of us tonight
<bencrisford> :(
<highvoltage> no problem though, we can just run through the items and post to the list
<bencrisford> yep, sounds good
<highvoltage> I guess we should announce the meetings better on the lists as well, people tend to forget
<highvoltage> As I'm sure you'll know, last week was UDS
<highvoltage> I've pasted links to the blueprints on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
<highvoltage> proper specifications still need to be drawn up
<highvoltage> it's on my todo list but my concentration span has been completely erratic this week :)
<highvoltage> I'll put together some drafts before the end of the week, so if anyone wants to help complete or review them that would be great
<bencrisford> I should be able to help out :)
<highvoltage> great
<highvoltage> If you follow the -devel mailing list, I'm sure you guys have noticed that Tomek from Debian has almost finished packaging Moodle 1.0
<highvoltage> oops, 1.9
<highvoltage> doesn't seem like we'll have to do as much work as anticipated at least!
<bencrisford> :D
<highvoltage> We're going to work on the Debian wiki, you can subscribe to http://wiki.debian.org/Moodle to stay up to date
<highvoltage> mailing list is at http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-moodle-maintainers if anyone is interested in getting involved with the packaging
<highvoltage> besides that we're still very much in planning mode for Maverick, next week we'll probably be going full steam at everything technical
<highvoltage> especially since this is going to be quite a short release cycle, since the release date has moved down to 2010-10-10 instead of 2010-10-26
<highvoltage> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule for details on release schedule
<bencrisford> :) are we going to be discussing what happened @ UDS this meeting?
<bencrisford> especially regarding the teams blueprint.. :)
<highvoltage> well it's on the agenda, so I guess yes!
<highvoltage> ok so that's it for technical
<highvoltage> (this feels like an ubuntu-classroom session with me doing so much talking :) )
<highvoltage> so, we still have too many LP teams that are mostly unused
<highvoltage> we discussed them at UDS and we're going to merge together or delete some groups
<highvoltage> the groups with "-" signs before them will be removed/merged: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-maverick-edubuntu-community
<highvoltage> Jordan actually bought up that we probably shouldn't merge the menu-dev team with edubuntu-dev, since edubuntu-dev has a lot more rights so it's probably not a good idea
<highvoltage> I'll post the LP teams changes to the list so that we can discuss it there
<mhall119> I'm back
<mhall119> was pulled away for work
<bencrisford> mhall119: :)
<highvoltage> I totally read that in a Scwartzenegger accent
<bencrisford> haha
<bencrisford> btw mhall119 - remember to ask questions in #ubuntu-meeting-chat
<bencrisford> (couldnt resist :D)
<mhall119> lol
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> bencrisford: not sure if you had any comments about the LP teams or whether you're fine just posting it to the list?
<bencrisford> if ~edubuntu-artwork merges with ~edubuntu-dev does that mean the artists get upload privelidges to all of the ~edubuntu-dev/+junk/branches?
<mhall119> I thought those were the people working on plymouth and gdm themes
<highvoltage> ah, I should add some clarification there
<bencrisford> oh ok
<highvoltage> bencrisford: "merge" has some slightly different meaning in this context. we'll basically discontinue that team and people who are more interested in the packaging and bug fixing parts can have it sponsored and eventually join edubuntu-dev
<bencrisford> highvoltage: ok, I see :)
<bencrisford> and the same for italc-dev?
<highvoltage> people who are more interested in creating artwork and new designs should get involved with ubuntu-art
<highvoltage> basically, yes
<bencrisford> I see :)
<bencrisford> the action plan looks pretty neat then team-wise :)
<highvoltage> well if it doesn't work we could always change it again :)
<bencrisford> yeah :)
<highvoltage> currently it's more or less the same people involved everywhere so it shouldn't be a problem
<highvoltage> if there are dozens of dedicated italc developers one day then I guess it would make sense to have a new team for them again :)
<highvoltage> Our website progress isn't that great
<highvoltage> I pinged hedgemadge last week and asked for the tarballs, but she hasn't had the chance yet
<highvoltage> I know both hedgmadge and dhillion have been very busy with real-life stuff
<mhall119> dhillion finished his AP exams and only has a couple weeks of school left
<mhall119> so he should be around more
<mhall119> he was on last night
<highvoltage> that will be great
<highvoltage> it would be nice to have the website up before he finishes
<highvoltage> that way when he does finish it's ready for fixing and further population
<highvoltage> I get a lot of new frequently asked questions and I could make a lot of changes to the current site to address that...
<highvoltage> I just don't want to put a lot of effort into it if we're going to trash the old site in a few days anyway
<mhall119> are we not using Launchpad for Q&A?
<highvoltage> no, but there's no good reason not to
<bencrisford> well we can still use it for q+a...  but FAQs are still useful
<bencrisford> saves people filling out a question..  waiting for an answer.. etc.  when they can just go on to some page and see their problem straight away :)
<highvoltage> yeah we can find the FAQs in the Q&A questions
<bencrisford> sounds like a plan :)
<mhall119> I wonder how much effort it would be to use launchpad's API to pull in Q&As
<mhall119> something to look into another day
<bencrisford> thats an interesting idea.. :) (im churning out ALOT of smileys today :/, i think its cos its sunny)
<mhall119> what does the future website run?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: heh, it's exactly the opposite here. people are getting all miserable and getting colds as it's getting more and more cold
<highvoltage> mhall119: drupal
<mhall119> man, it's > 90F here
 * mhall119 hates the sun these days
<bencrisford> highvoltage: just starting to warm up now, after like months and months of utterly miserable weather
<bencrisford> its still pretty chilly, but its sunny which makes it kind of OK
<highvoltage> mhall119: it's actually the old site, cleaned up a lot, new theme, all the old bugs fixed, forums with ML integration and a few other small things
<mhall119> highvoltage: cool
<highvoltage> today the weather was baconny here
<mhall119> mmmm, bacon
<highvoltage> ( http://jonathancarter.co.za/2010/05/19/this-operating-system-has-everything/ )
<mhall119> lol
<highvoltage> mhall119: so this API, you mean pull it in from LP to Drupal?
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> like we currently pull from LP to Django for loco.ubuntu.com
<bencrisford> wow, I have email and bacon too! :D
<highvoltage> it might be worth looking into
<highvoltage> the more we can get updated on the site automatically the better
<mhall119> highvoltage: how did you test the ubiquity slideshow as you were putting it together?
<highvoltage> mhall119: I installed the package on to the live environment
<mhall119> and then just ran ubiquity?
<mhall119> the install I mean
<highvoltage> mhall119: well, when it seemed ok. you can also open the index.html file in firefox (or another web browser) to look through all the slides
<highvoltage> you can edit a file that's called something similar to slideshow.js and make the slide delay shorter which is quite useful for testing
<highvoltage> yep, so I would check it in firefox, and then when it seemed ok I'd put it in the package, install it on the live cd and fire up ubiquity to see if there were anything weird
<mhall119> thanks, looks like I'm missing the js for that
<highvoltage> yeah that would break it for sure :)
<highvoltage> there's two sub-directories. link and link-core
<highvoltage> you'll find the basic images and css in link and the js in link-core
<mhall119> working now, thanks
<highvoltage> ok on to advocacy team! (I nearly forgot)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: have you been following the talk on the mailing list?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: ?  I didn't know there was one :S
<bencrisford> which ML?
<highvoltage> one moment...
<highvoltage> bencrisford: eek, I thought it was on the edubuntu-devel mailing list, but it was on the ubuntu-education mailing list
<bencrisford> that will be why :)
<highvoltage> (which I assume now that you're not on)
 * bencrisford searched for ubuntu-education archives
<bencrisford> I will subscribe now :D
<highvoltage> when you have a chance, please check the messages on the archives from the last few days
<highvoltage> that list basically died a while ago
<highvoltage> cproffit and dinda revived it
<highvoltage> with similar goals do what we have for the advocacy project
<bencrisford> ok, cool :)
<highvoltage> so I'm suggesting that we use that advocacy team on LP and an associated list for internal stuff, planning, etc
<highvoltage> and the ubuntu-education list for teachers and our non-technical education contributors
<bencrisford> sounds good :)
<bencrisford> is it the messages entitles "Myself"?
<highvoltage> heh, yes, it took a few twists and turns from the original introduction :)
<bencrisford> okey dokey :)
<highvoltage> I'll send some more mails out about that (sheesh I'm getting even more noisy) just to make sure everyone is on the same page
<bencrisford> :)
<highvoltage> I should've actually pinged you before about the education list but I thought that discussion was on -devel since it all goes into the same mail folder
<bencrisford> heh, its ok
<bencrisford> :)
<highvoltage> cool, you should make some noise too and introduce yourself on that list :)
<bencrisford> really? :P
<highvoltage> well, since you're technically the leader of our advocacy team... yes :)
<highvoltage> (well, good noise, not noise as in signal to noise ;) )
<bencrisford> ok :), good noise - tomboy'd :D
<highvoltage> do we have anything else for this meeting that I forgot about?
<bencrisford> not on the agenda
<bencrisford> but can I mention marketing materials?
<highvoltage> yep, fire away
<bencrisford> well basically, there arent any :/ :(
<bencrisford> im thinking maybe we could try and work with the marketing team on this ? or spreadubuntu or something..
<highvoltage> I like the spreadubuntu stuff since a lot of it is available in .svg
<bencrisford> but getting some leaflets out to LoCos could really help us if they gave them out at events etc.
<bencrisford> highvoltage: yeah :D
<bencrisford> and maybe web buttons?
<bencrisford> I have made a few poor attempts at them
<highvoltage> when our website is done, yes :)
<bencrisford> im thinking maybe some of the marketing peeps will be more experienced
<highvoltage> I don't feel very proud advertising our current website
<bencrisford> http://ubuntuone.com/p/1qA/ - that sort of thing maybe..?
<bencrisford> :P I dont know
<bencrisford> highvoltage: haha, its not that bad!
<bencrisford> the information is just outdated
<bencrisford> I personally love the design etc
<bencrisford> (of the site)
<highvoltage> but you're right, we need to bump up our marketing, especially for maverick, if we get it right it will probably be the best educational linux system release ever
<bencrisford> yay :D
<highvoltage> since the last release it's already more or less on par with the likes of k12-ltsp. debian-edu has quite a few technical advantages (but then again so do we), for maverick we'll have pretty much the best of everything except for centralised authentication, which we might even make some good progress on this release with vmlintu's help
<highvoltage> bencrisford: that gif badge looks like a good idea... we just need something better looking, especially without the gif distortions
<bencrisford> highvoltage: yeah :)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I'll add it again to the agenda for the next meeting too, so that we can get some more ideas going too
<bencrisford> ok :)
<highvoltage> ok, next meeting will be on 26 May, same time and place
<highvoltage> thanks for being here bencrisford and mhall119!
<bencrisford> lol
<highvoltage> *GONG*
<bencrisford> highvoltage: for next week, ill send a meeting reminder to the ML on tuesday night if you want?
<bencrisford> well tuesday night for me
<bencrisford> would be afternoon for USA
<bencrisford> im pretty good at remembering the meetings so wont be a problem :)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: that would be nice
<bencrisford> highvoltage: :)
<dbertua> hola gente
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-20
<legreffier> hello!
<aday_> anybody here for ayatana ux?
<godbyk> I am.
<aday_> that's two ;)
<godbyk> I know that humphreybc said he wouldn't be able to make it to today's meeting.
<godbyk> I haven't heard anything about any of the others, though.
<aday_> it might not be the best week for it
<cjohnston> o/
<godbyk> Hey, cjohnston.
<cjohnston> hey
<aday_> seems like there's a few of us here. are there any burning issues to be discussed?!
<godbyk> Well, here's our list of potential activities: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ayatana-ux
<godbyk> (Re-reading mpt's email it looks like he's out this week at a conference.)
<godbyk> If anyone has any ideas to add to the list at http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ayatana-ux, feel free.  We'll apparently discuss them at next week's meeting.
<aday_> godbyk: cool
<aday_> i guess the only ongoing issue is mpt's mail to the ayatana list. not much of a response there, unfortunately
<godbyk> yeah, I only saw one review.
<godbyk> but to be honest, I haven't been paying too close attention to the ayatana@ mailing list lately.
<godbyk> there's been a lot of email, but most of it appears to be a collection of opinions.
<cjohnston> agreed ^
<godbyk> I'd love to see posts that contain opinions derived from some principles or opinions derived from data, but that doesn't appear to be happening at the moment.
<aday_> i was hoping to find some time to add to the review
<aday_> lead by example, so to speak
<godbyk> Right.
<godbyk> I've been pretty busy lately. I just started a new job, so I'm trying to sort through things there. Hopefully it'll settle down soon so I can get back to some Ubuntu stuff.
<aday_> i'm pretty busy too
<aday_> one thing that could help with this ui review would be to make it more visual. people respond to pictures :)
<godbyk> Agreed.
<aday_> think it would be ok to set up a project page on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/
<aday_> ?
<godbyk> I don't know yet.
<godbyk> I think Ayatana and Ayatana UX are two different things.
<godbyk> Might wait and talk to mpt about it first.
<aday_> godbyk: ok
<aday_> i've got to run. see you all next week :)
<cjohnston> o/
<godbyk> see ya, aday_!
<MrChris> Hello all
<MrChris> is anyone here?
<MrChris> hellp?
<MrChris> hello*
<cjohnston> ?
<jledbetter_> Hi MrChris
<MrChris> hello jledbetter_
<MrChris> i am here for the meeting.
<jledbetter_> Which one?
<mhall119> I'm here for all of them, doesn't matter which
<MrChris> Website theme meeting
<MrChris> this is the email i got
<MrChris> Hello, I just wanted to send a quick reminder that we'll be having our meeting shortly. It will be at 16:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting on freenode. I hope you can attend, but for those who cannot I'll write up some minutes and send them to the list and also post them at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/NewBrandLaunchMeeting.
<MrChris> i received this email at 11:36PM GMT+10:00
<stas> !date
<stas> http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_UTC.aspx looks like there are about 2 more hours
<jturek> I see in Evolution for some reason its showing the meeting as starting now as well,  must the the fridge,ubuntu calendar has the wrong timezone set
<Joeb454> i was under the impression 1600 UTC is now
<Joeb454> given I'm in BST, which is 1 hour behind UTC, unless I'm mistaken
<MrChris> people can also look at http://www.timeanddate.com
<Ddorda_ntbk> the website there meeting is in one hour, right?
<MTecknology> Ddorda_ntbk: yup
<popey> Joeb454: BST is one hour ahead of UTC
<Ddorda_ntbk> MTecknology: cool, i'll be here :)
<MTecknology> Ddorda_ntbk: sounds good
<Ddorda_ntbk> MTecknology: you're doing the meeting?
<ronnie_vd_c> when starts https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/NewBrandLaunchMeeting. thought that 16:00 UTC == 17:00GMT+1
<MTecknology> Ddorda_ntbk: nope
<popey> 1600 UTC roughly == 1600 GMT
<popey> but UK is in BST which is GMT+1
<popey> ronnie_vd_c: in 45 minutes
<thekorn> date -u  helps alot ;)
<Crewsr3> Does anyone know of a good website that would make it easy to convert UTC to my own time zone
<popey> http://www.timeanddate.com
<popey> or just run date -u as thekorn suggests
<ronnie_vd_c> according to the website, it starts 16:00 UTC. im from the netherlands (GMT+1) and it is 17:00. Am i calculating something wrong? (have a bad inet connection)
<popey> Thu May 20 15:18:35 UTC 2010
<popey> ^^^ the time now
<popey> so in 42 mins, the meeting will start
<Crewsr3> Thanks popey
<ronnie_vd_c> a i think i know the problem. in the netherlands we have summer and winter time. winter is normal GMT+1 and summer is GMT+2
<Joeb454> popey: thanks, I always get confused :)
<popey> everyone should live in UTC :)
<MrChris> popey: then the world would be boring...
<popey> it would be quieter
<ronnie_vd_c> popey: not practical, if it is dark at 10AM ;)
<popey> pffft
<Joeb454> popey, i try to live in UTC, but it does get difficult at times :p
<MrChris> i agree with ronnie_vd_c
<ronnie_vd_c> altough, why not. just start working at 6AM instead of 8AM. eat at 4PM instead of 6PM. The day stays the same, only the notation is shifted 1 or 2 hours.
<MTecknology> ronnie_vd_c: why doesn't the whole world just use the exact same timeof day at all times?
<MTecknology> ronnie_vd_c: it started back when people set their time based on the rising sun; once railroads came into existance, crashes happened because time wasn't standardized, so they made time zones
 * ronnie_vd_c hopes that the inet will be fixed before 16:00
 * newz2000 too
<soren> ronnie_vd_c: The internet is broken?
<ronnie_vd_c> yes
<ronnie_vd_c> currently on neighbour wireless
<soren> I'm sorry to hear that.
<soren> Oh. /Your/ internet is broken :)
<soren> I'm much calmer now.
<ronnie_vd_c> lol
<afterlastangel> do I join too early?
<ronnie_vd_c> 4 minutes ;)
<MrChris> how much longer until the meeting?
<ronnie_vd_c> 3 minutes i guess
<afterlastangel> I the schedule is 1 hours
<afterlastangel> Our server at ubuntu-vn.org is currently down,I think we could find another server for the new theme of homepage
<newz2000> Hello, give me about 90 seconds and then we'll start
<MrChris> ok
<mat_t> 89
<mat_t> 88
<afterlastangel> :D
<mat_t> 87
<afterlastangel> !spam
<mat_t> ;)
<MrChris> :o
<mat_t> 34
<newz2000> Lets go
<MrChris> ok...
<newz2000> Good day everyone, I'm Matthew Nuzum, the ubuntu.com and canonical.com webmaster
<newz2000> I'm a Canonical employee serving in this capacity for 4 years and before that was an enthusiastic member of the Ubuntu community
<afterlastangel> hi
<mongolito404> Hi
<newz2000> I'm joined by mat_t who has been one of the pioneers of the Canonical Design team and has contributed in many highly visible ways to make Ubuntu as beautiful as it is today
<MrChris> For that which I am greatful... :)
<mhall119> hi newz2000
<mat_t> hi guys, great to be here :)
<newz2000> Today's meeting is about community web themes
<newz2000> You have probably seen the work at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand2
<newz2000> relating to the new branding and designs
<newz2000> And I know that many of you are eager to see this in real life, on the ubuntu website
<newz2000> and also maybe on your community team's website
<newz2000> I know I'm eager to see it. :-)
 * stas :)
<newz2000> I want to give you an update on how that's going
<newz2000> Canonical's design team, my team (marketing) and a contracted drupal agency are hard at work bringing this to life
 * MrChris is eager to buy some of the Ubuntu 10.04 merchandise.
 * ronnie_vd_c can't wait ;)
<newz2000> It's in testing now. I've seen it and played with it.
<newz2000> And I have to say, it looks marevelous
 * MrChris agrees...
<newz2000> Soon you too will get to see it. How soon depends on a few things, mostly related to testing and bug fixes
 * akgraner can't wait to see it.... (I'm so excited)
<mhall119> newz2000: how about Wordpress and Django themes?
<newz2000> Its not going to be today or tomorrowâ¦ we have a little time yet.
<newz2000> mhall119: good question, that's actually why we're here
<mhall119> or just a plain HTML version that can be used to make other themes
<afterlastangel> :D
<mhall119> oh cool, I'll sit back and be patient then :)
<newz2000> I know that you all would love to have your site launch at the exact time that Ubuntu.com's launches
<MrChris> Wordpress themes can be adapted from HTML coding.
<afterlastangel> or maybe the update of drupal-ubuntu
<newz2000> I'm afraid we're not going to make that easy on you...
<MrChris> :(
<newz2000> But I want to do the next best thing
<MrChris> :)
<akgraner> :-( teases  :-P
<akgraner> :-D
<newz2000> This is where I mention the web presence team
<mongolito404> ubuntu-drupal's has already a new theme matching the new brand
<newz2000> mongolito404: let me point out that the stuff posted to the wiki is not final. The final theme has devited from that a bit.
<echowarp> mongolito404: i wouldn't say matching. It fits though.
<newz2000> But lets come back to that, OK?
<MTecknology> newz2000: that was ideal iirc?
<newz2000> The web presence team is a group of people who want to make Ubuntu better by using their web skills.
<newz2000> If this describes you, you should be part of the team.
 * MrChris wants to be part of this team.
<newz2000> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website for more details
 * MrChris has some knowledge in php and plenty in HTML
<newz2000> We have an interesting opportunity with the new designs
<newz2000> What we have with the community themes is in some ways less than ideal
<newz2000> For one, we have a lot of fragmentation and duplication of work
<MrChris> which needs to be soughted and the copies eliminated.
<newz2000> This has caused there to be many themes with great variances of quality
<newz2000> I'd like for us to coordinate our efforts to work together as the web presence team to create some themes for the community to use
<drubin> newz2000: Sorry but the reason for this is the lack of openness and untimely fassion that canonical have released the new themes..
<newz2000> drubin: we're trying to chagne that. This is our chance.
<rowinggolfer> newz2000: (newbie question) what license are all the branding images release under?
<newz2000> rowinggolfer: getting there
<MrChris> newz2000: would it not be GNU Public or GPL?
<newz2000> Our goal for working together on the web presence team is to have higher quality, and consistent themes
<drubin> newz2000: This is currently the case and I thought it was important to mention it! I do hope you and your team manage to change it and look forward to it
<thorwil> newz2000: recently a few people claiming to have web skills hit the ubuntu-artwork list. and invitation/pointer to the web team might be a good idea
<MrChris> drubin: thats what we are working on now
<newz2000> thorwil: noted, I'll mention it there
<newz2000> ok, let me step back
<newz2000> Let me tell you about some changes to the ubuntu.com website
<newz2000> First, you probably know that the website uses drupal
<newz2000> So our main work is on a drupal theme
<MTecknology> drupal v5 iirc?
<newz2000> no, v6
<MTecknology> alrighty
<newz2000> However our theme will not be useful for most of you
<MrChris> hence needing to adapt the theme, right?
<newz2000> Ubuntu.com's implementation has gotten far more complex in order to support it's specific audience
<newz2000> If you heard Mark speak at UDS you saw the curve
<newz2000> Ubuntu.com is being adapted to fit a broader audience
<MrChris> as it should...
<newz2000> We're focusing on the quality of the content (typos, up-to-date info, etc)
<MrChris> i can do that
<newz2000> MrChris: just listen
<MrChris> my apologies...
<newz2000> The navigation is improving greatly
<newz2000> this has been a big problem for a while, so you'll like this change
<newz2000> The layout is changing dramatically
<newz2000> From a coding persepctive it is a lot more complex
<newz2000> and uses panels for almost everything
<newz2000> And it has to support visual work that allows communicating which parts are community, which parts are commercial / canonical
<newz2000> anyway, you don't need that in your community themes
<MTecknology> panels kill simplicity ;)
<newz2000> indeed
<newz2000> So what do community themes need?
<newz2000> Let me toss out some of my ideas, then tell me yours
<newz2000> I think they need to be consistently high quality
<newz2000> Not every team has great artists or web geeks
<newz2000> They should be able to get something great without these skills
<MrChris> style and simplicity
<newz2000> They need a theme that allows them to express their individuality
<newz2000> and yet visitors should still feel like the site is connected to Ubuntu.com
<echowarp> must be multilingual
<newz2000> They need to respect the Ubuntu brand guidelines which mat_t will talk about shortly
<mhall119> s/must/should/
<newz2000> They need to leverage the benefits of the platform. I.e. a wordpress blog should benefit from being a wordpress blog, and differ from an smf forum.
<newz2000> And lastly, and this may be controversial...
 * stas sorry afk a bit
<newz2000> (lastly from me that is, you get to contribute here too)
<MrChris> newz2000: a while ago, did we discuss something like this: a user goes to ubuntu.com. then based on their locale, it will redirect them to a subsite which matches their locale?
<newz2000> They should not be clones of ubuntu.com. They should feel connected to and harmonious with ubuntu.com but different in subtle ways
<newz2000> Let me explain why that is...
<rowinggolfer> nasty grammar on the www.ubuntu.com homepage - "it can be fast, fun and easier to use"
<MTecknology> MrChris: that has little to do with the theme of itself, only rtl should be in the theme
<newz2000> give me just another moment folks
<newz2000> some community sites are translation sites. They are partnerships to create localized resources
<newz2000> when a site is an official translated copy it will be guranateed to get updated with each new change, whith each graphic, and will get high quality control
<MrChris> MTecknology, if a user from china could use a version of the ubuntu site which is chinese, it would make them feel more comfortable as opposed to using english or hungarian, yes?
<newz2000> things that a community partnership doesn't provide
<newz2000> So it should be clear to site visitors that this is an official partnership, but not necessarily a copy of the main site
<newz2000> We can discuss this more later
<newz2000> What have I left out?
<MrChris> nothing that i can think of...
<newz2000> translatable is a good one
<echowarp> perhaps a standard set of community links
<stas> until we didn't change the subject with stuff related to design
<mhall119> newz2000: how about supplying graphics, css, color palettes, etc
<stas> there's a great demand of integration with ldap
<newz2000> mhall119: excellent point, it is next on the agenda
<MTecknology> MrChris: the theme shouldn't need to be translatable - that should be handled by the cms
<mhall119> loco.ubuntu.com has started pointing to css files hosted by ubuntu.com, can other community sites do the same?
<echowarp> stas: why would you want ldap when theres launchpad-login?
<stas> on drupal there's a plugin that doesn't work well at all, on wordpress I would write one but specs are not published
<newz2000> mhall119: I don't think it will be a good idea. It was designed for that purpose
<stas> sorry launchpad
<newz2000>  /was/ was not/
<MrChris> MTecknology, i am not saying the theme needs to be translatable, i am saying the content should be.
<newz2000> I think the theme should be developed with this in mind.
<stas> so I meant launchpad not ldap (I'm a mess :) )
<newz2000> :-) we'll forgive you stas
<MTecknology> newz2000: could you check out ubuntu-drupal to see if it falls into the realm of being similar but not a clone?
<stas> It would be great to have some integration stuff for man cms to allow users login smoothly
<newz2000> OK, I thought I might get some criticism for saying the sits should differ slightly from ubuntu.com but you all seem to have taken that in stride.
<mhall119> newz2000: we like out individuality
<mhall119> ;)
<mongolito404> newz2000: This has been announced before
<echowarp> I'd like to see some kind of interlinking of the different ubuntu communities. Like a standard footer that links to some of the popular ones
<newz2000> MTecknology: yes, I have. echowarp and I discussed it right before the meeting and I added that to the agenda at the end
<MTecknology> I think I'm the reason for clones in the first place :P
<Merk42> newz2000: the only problem I see is that fine line of similar enough, but not too similar
<mhall119> echowarp: +1
<MTecknology> newz2000: alrighty - I'll wait 'til them
<MTecknology> then*
<MrChris> echowarp: +2
<newz2000> ok, lets talk about graphical and styling assets
<dantalizing> stas: i havent really looked at this deeply yet, but https://launchpad.net/wordpress-launchpad-integration/trunk
<MTecknology> newz2000: the font is a big one..
<newz2000> My boss talked to Mark and Jane yesterday
<stas> dantalizing: thanks Ill check it
<newz2000> Everyone agreed that we would make the style and imagagery available to the teams to use. I don't know the deetails of the licesing yet
<echowarp> we managed to make the new ubuntu-drupal noticeably different visually from the main site. different doesn't mean bad.
<newz2000> I'm sure with graphcis it's a bit different than software
<MrChris> different can be good
<newz2000> and I know that we want ubuntu teams to have a lot of flexibility but we don't want it to be abused by those who are not trying to strengthen ubuntu
<mhall119> newz2000: if graphics are supplied, can we get source files, like svg, or native gimp
<MTecknology> if you want to see a sample of ubuntu-drupal - staging.profarius.com - just fyi for anyone since echowarp mentioned it
<mhall119> so we can more easily modify them
<mhall119> getting low-res png files can only take us so far
<newz2000> mat_t: would you mind covering the next few topics and helping answer soem of these questions?
<dantalizing> newz2000: to that end, having background separate from logos would be helpful
<mat_t> sure
<mhall119> dantalizing: +1
<mat_t> first of all - hi everybody :)
<mongolito404> About assets licensing, drupal.org requires everything it hosts to be under the a GPL compatible licence. The issue has been raised for the ud-theme2010
<MrChris> dantalizing: +2
<MTecknology> MrChris: hi
<MrChris> hello mat_t
<MTecknology> mat_t: hi *
<mhall119> mongolito404: what about images?
<MrChris> MTecknology: hi :p
<newz2000> slow down guys
<newz2000> sorry, people, not guys
<mat_t> My name is Mat Tomaszewski and I've had some part in the recent rebranding and web design efforts
<mat_t> :)
<mongolito404> mhall119: It's not clear but my understanding is that yes, images have to be under a GPL-comp. lic.
<MTecknology> the ubuntu logo is not gpl, right?
<mat_t> At the moment we're furiously qa-ing the site and working on the guidelines that will help with producing great new templates for Ubuntu websites
<mat_t> so quick word about those
<rowinggolfer> newz2000: firstly, I think the new branding is very professional looking. You are clearly saying is you do not want community sites to use this and therefore appear similar? What is unclear is what steps you would take against such a "clone" site.
<MTecknology> mongolito404: I think the logo is the only real issue which is why I'm interested int he font being released
<mhall119> MTecknology: the logo itself is protected by Trademark laws, copyrights are on individual representations
<MTecknology> mhall119: I'm breaking those laws now - plase don't sue me :(
<MrChris> Unfortunately, I need to get to bed now. it is 2:40AM here in sydney. newz2000: will these meeting logs be on the site?
<mhall119> MTecknology: I don't own them, so I have no standing to sue, so you're good ;)
<cjohnston> MrChris: irclogs.ubuntu.com
<MrChris> my face is on the keyboard :p
<echowarp> well, we kind of handle that by saying that Ubuntu is a registered trademark of canonical in the footer. thats kind of seperating the logo from the rest of the GPL stuff
<newz2000> MrChris: I'll summarize and send to mailing lists
<MrChris> thanks newz2000
<MTecknology> echowarp: I suppose
<MTecknology> I have a thought...
<MTecknology> Could the web presence team make a set of images with the logo that would be acceptable to use?
<MTecknology> so we don't need to craft our own..
<MrChris> newz2000: i will be in touch through email of course.
<mat_t> ok guys - we'll get to all those points
<mat_t> if I may :)
 * MTecknology quiets self and watches text flow
<MrChris> For now, goodbye for now and goodnight/day.
<mat_t> bye MrChris
<mat_t> so as you know, our artists have spent last months putting together what we call "refreshed Ubuntu brand"
<mat_t> which consists of new logo, font, colour palette and other elements
<mat_t> we have also extracted what are the core Ubuntu brand values
<mongolito404> If trademark on the U logo is not incompatible with the GPL, we will probably need reference to support this claim to keep the hosting on drupal.org (which is important because Drupal tooling integrates well with drupal.org)
<mat_t> mongolito404: just a sec, we'll get to it :)
<mat_t> you can read more at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand and it's a recommended read :)
<mhall119> mongolito404: again, trademark and copyright are separate issues
<mat_t> the web design guidelines we're working on will help understand the basics of the brand and the most important design decisions that guided us
<mat_t> they will cover aspects like the grid system, colour palette, typography and more
<mat_t> while trying to explain why certain decisions have been taken
<echowarp> sounds good
<mat_t> but we want the community to be creative and fresh, as we believe this is the spirit of Ubuntu
<dantalizing> i'm already fresh
<mat_t> but at the same time, not to lose the core, which defines the visual essence
<mat_t> anyways :)
<echowarp> sidenote: it sounds like you guys need a "This is a human-readable summary of the Legal Code", like creative commons has, for what you want with the copyright/trademark
<mat_t> At this stage I'd like to hear from you guys what it is that will help you most and how we can help best
<stas> to bring up people for collaboration, can we setup some central point where mockups can be discussed and taken feedback?
<mhall119> mat_t: source files for images
<stas> I know there will be a lot of bikesheding but anyway
<mhall119> mat_t: color palletes
<mat_t> right
<newz2000> stas: web presence team mailing list, but lets do talk about this in a bit
<stas> ok
<mat_t> all those will obviously be provided
<mhall119> the font files, obviously
<echowarp> i'd kinda like to know what the deal is with all the dots. i don't know what the guidline is to using them. is there a certain kind of place it is supposed to be used?
<mat_t> yes, the font will be available, once it's ready (which is also soon!)
<mat_t> echowarp: good question
<mhall119> templates/themes/mockups that show how to use them all together
<mat_t> I think the guideline should specify that, too
<mat_t> so examples of good/bad practices
<mat_t> etc
<mat_t> mhall119: exactly
<echowarp> did i understand you correctly that you wanted to know what hte guideline should contain?
<mhall119> not exactly web-based, but templates for OOo Writer and Scribus would be nice
<dantalizing> i'd really like to see the corporate vs community branding message repeated .. i see a lot of aubergine in the community
<mat_t> echowarp: precisely
<mhall119> dantalizing: +1 again
 * newz2000 says: 10m warning
<mat_t> dantalizing: in general, aubergine will be used on Canonical website, Ubuntu colour palette uses orange and warm gray
<dantalizing> i'd also like some more clarification on the whole dots and graph paper thing ... I'm personally not sure where these branding elements woudl apply
<mhall119> and also clarification about when the community can/should use the corporate colors
<mat_t> all good points
<dantalizing> mat_t: *I* know that .. i'm not sure the community is getting it
<mat_t> exactly - hence the guide :)
<mat_t> fantastic - I think that helps a lot
<mhall119> for example, when a community is promoting Ubuntu itself, does it use Abergine or Orange?
<mat_t> newz2000: over to you
<newz2000> ok
<mat_t> Ubuntu = orange
<dantalizing> mhall119: orange
<mhall119> Ubuntu desktop is Abergine though
<newz2000> So mat_t knows what you need and will be working with his team to get these assets to you soon
<newz2000> I know everyting is "soon"
<newz2000> and I'm sorry that I don't have definite dates
<mat_t> http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/
<mhall119> might it be a bit of a disconnect, if everything advertising Ubuntu is in orange, but Ubuntu  itself is abergine?
<mat_t> please use this as a resource
<newz2000> who's ready to start talking about creating themes?
<stas> me
<yltsrc> me
<newz2000> phew, you had me worried there
 * stas show me the code :)
<newz2000> :-)
<newz2000> Normally, when i have a project that crosses multiple CMSs I start with plain html
<newz2000> And I try to keep it as clean and simple as possible
<MTecknology> mat_t: are those images open for our usage in themes?
<newz2000> I think we should rally some of our CSS experts to help with this
<mongolito404> newz2000: Any plan to use a CSS framework (960gs, blueprint), it think most CMS have some sort of helper or base theme for these
<newz2000> 960 would fit well with what will be on ubuntu.com but I don't know if it's relevant to all the various themes...
<dantalizing> mmm...960
<newz2000> does 960 work good for a wordpress blog?
<stas> i wouldn't push css frameworks if there's no need in those
<stas> in wordpress there ready frameworks
<stas> so CSS frameworks are more like a burden
<newz2000> OK, lets start a discussion on the web presence taem mailing list about the css for the base theme
<newz2000> then we'll need to port this to other systems, like wordpress drupal, etc
<stas> newz2000: +1
<newz2000> (MTecknology, echowarp I am getting to your work, don't panic)
<newz2000> We, the team, need a list of tools used by you the community
<newz2000> wordpress, drupal, smf, ???
<MTecknology> newz2000: yup, I'm just wiritng an encryption script and watching :)
<ronnie_vd_c> moinmoin
<stas> newz2000: fluxbb (ex punbb)
<yltsrc> rails, django
<Agafonov> newz2000: dokuwiki and simple machines forum (smf)
<stas> planetplanet
<mhall119> newz2000: will there be separate code branches for those other themes?
<newz2000> mhall119: good question, that's the next point on the agenda
<newz2000> (you may be pschic!)
<dantalizing> wp, planetplanet, elgg
 * stas says hi to Agafonov ;)
<newz2000> We need a place to keep this. Launchpad is a good choice.
<mat_t> Sorry to interrupt, thanks to Thorwil, this is a correct link to the Visual Identity wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/VisualIdentity
<newz2000> Does it make more sense to use one branch for all or one per CMS?
<MTecknology> definitely - launchpad is the only sensible place imo :P
<Agafonov> stas: hi, just completely miss the time :(
<mhall119> +1 launchpad
<MTecknology> even if we import into other places - like drupal.org
<newz2000> one branch total or one per cms?
<mhall119> packages can also be made that install in the appropriate places
<MTecknology> 1/cms
<mhall119> newz2000: one per cms I would think
<stas> newz2000: +1 launchpad but synced with main cms repo's cause both drupal and wordpress have plugins/themes hosting
<echowarp> i would say one per cms
<MTecknology> that would get cluttered and overloaded otherwise
<echowarp> i like launchpad
<mongolito404> the way to package for Drupal is the get the module hosted on Drupal.org
<ronnie_vd_c> 1/cms
<stas> one per cms
<newz2000> I can think of one benefit to one total, tell me what you think....
<MTecknology> stas: and drupal.org is cvs still :(
<newz2000> much of the css will be the same, and when you update it in one you could update it in all
<stas> MTecknology: yeah, sorry for you guys :(
<mhall119> newz2000: there might be benefit in having a "commons" branch
<mhall119> or "core"
<stas> plus bzr plays well with most of the scm
<newz2000> ok, that would likely be the plain html theme
<newz2000> ok, I think that's decided
<mhall119> newz2000: I mean for common css and images
<mongolito404> imho, the best would be to a have a common "vendor branch" with shared resources
<mhall119> so a wordpress theme would need the common branch plus wordpress branch
<newz2000> I've created this wiki page as a resting place for our work: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/WebThemes
<MTecknology> a core branch sounds like +1; then we can pull into otheres (or sub branch)
<Agafonov> newz2000: one "head" for design itself but divided for particular applications?
<ronnie_vd_c> mhall119 +1
<mhall119> once bsr has nested tree support, we can include the common branch within a cms-specific branch
<newz2000> yeah, that'd be cool
 * stas bzr is awesome, just for the record
<mhall119> +1 on bzr being awesome
<MTecknology> newz2000: "others can use them as reference but need to change branding" - imho - it would be best to start with something acceptable for others - then offer the branding for those that don't need to worry about that
<MTecknology> so we're settled on the nested branches?
<newz2000> MTecknology: that would be good except that it defeats the purpose, which is to make an Ubuntu theme for the community. :-)
<newz2000> yes, nested branches
<MTecknology> newz2000: you mean that's acceptable for loco and such? - but not unubuntu related?
<newz2000> I mean my point is not to make a new theme for the world, but to make (or adapt existing) themes for our community
<newz2000> So having an un-branded branch is not a necessity
<newz2000> I'm going to follow up on the web presense team mailing list asking for volunteers for each part
 * mhall119 goes to subscribe to that ML
<MTecknology> ok- I'm sure this well get further clarified :P - I'm just looking for a cut and dried - spelled out - id10t proof thing :P
<newz2000> so if you're not there, you should be
<newz2000> Now let me mention that we've had some people in the community already start
<newz2000> pioneers
 * stas https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-website
<newz2000> thanks stas
<newz2000> http://ubuntu-ast.org/?q=ast
<mat_t> gotta run - was fun, thanks everybody!
<akgraner> mat_t, thanks!
<newz2000> code is at https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-drupal-theme
<mat_t> have a great evening/morning/night all! :)
<newz2000> MTecknology and echowarp are the two who I have talked to about this, maybe others have participated
<newz2000> it's good initial work
<MTecknology> many others have helped
<newz2000> Alas, the design has changed a bit from the mock-ups you used
<newz2000> But this points out something that I think we should value in our implementations...
<newz2000> if you've worked with wordpress, you'll know that themes are always gpl
<newz2000> The graphics are copyrighted by their owner (and may not be free)
<newz2000> but the source is available
<newz2000> So a lot of themes are evolutions of others. There's a lot of reuse.
<newz2000> So after we have the base html we can divide each cms theme project into two tasks...
<newz2000> the base theme and the branding
<newz2000> I don't think we have to start from scratch on everything
<newz2000> What do you think?
<MTecknology> scratch might not be tooo horrible - get things in sync
<MTecknology> it'll kinda kick us in the gut a little :P
<mhall119> what do you mean by "branding"?
<newz2000> the graphics and the part of the css that makes it look like an ubuntu site
<stas> I wanted you to know that I started a wordpress-loco project https://edge.launchpad.net/wordpress-loco, though it doesn't use the refreshed brand, the results are exactly this website http://ubuntu-md.org
<mhall119> newz2000: so the base theme wouldn't look like an ubuntu site?
<newz2000> That's an option
<mhall119> I'm not sure what benefit there would be to the community in that
<newz2000> I guess what i'm saying is that I don't think theme creators need to feel the need to start from scratch
<mhall119> since presumably we all want out sites to look like they're part of the ubuntu community
<mhall119> s/out/our/
<newz2000> They could take a good base theme and add the ubuntu branding to it
<stas> +1 for base themes and ubuntu-loco "layer" above
<mhall119> I'm just not seeing the benefit to a non-ubuntu-looking base theme
<stas> both drupal and wordpress have something like zen themes (startup frameworks)
<mhall119> ah, okay, I think I understand now
<MTecknology> for ubuntu-drupal - we could start with the base theme we have, then use the new owrk and sort of merge the two efforts
<newz2000> I think that's a great plan
<Agafonov> newz2000: are there some restrictions for branding use in this case?
<stas> MTecknology: +1 for that, it will also ensure a compatibility layer (sort of) :)
<MTecknology> mhall119: for sen and such you make a theme that uses the other theme, but then you apply changes over top of it
<MTecknology> stas: ya
<newz2000> Agafonov: we'll be getting you some artwork and guidelines soon
<Agafonov> i mean who can and who cannot use branding
<newz2000> ah
<newz2000> good question
<echowarp> how will we have access to the base theme without access to it?
<MTecknology> echowarp: that'll come up later - a branch will be made
<newz2000> The policy in the past has been that officially recognized teams have a lot of flexibility. Others should not be using the Ubuntu brand in a way that communicates an official relationship.
<stas> newz2000: that means that themes can't be published in drupal and wordpress (lets say) themes directory
<mhall119> newz2000: I thought it was allowed for promoting Ubuntu
<newz2000> They need to have the branding removed
<newz2000> mhall119: there is a very fine line
<MTecknology> newz2000: that's what i was referring to from the wiki
<stas> oh, right, thats a solution
<newz2000> all right, so you may be thinking, "what happens now?"
<newz2000> I'm going to summarize todays meeting and send it to the lists (loco and web)
<newz2000> Then I'm going to ask you who want to be involved to make teams
<newz2000> each team in charge of a theme
<mhall119> I'm wondering if OMG Ubuntu! can use these branded themes or not
<newz2000> Some of you who can't make websites but want to use a theme need to list your needs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/WebThemes
<newz2000> I'll add the ones we discussed
<newz2000> (before the notes go out) Someoen else is welcoem to do that for me if you really want to
<MTecknology> with the branding .. my opinion... we should build the theme without branding - all these cms' allow you to apply your own logo through the gui afaik - it's probably best to point them to a page to grab an image to use (http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/)
<newz2000> remember, brand is more than a logo
<mhall119> MTecknology: I would think most communities would have their own logo, I assumed the "branded" theme meant it used the Ubuntu colors and non-logo images
<MTecknology> ya, but if we fall in the 'keep it distinct' - wouldn't the logo be about all that's left?
<newz2000> I think distinct means, harmonious and connected
<newz2000> not a copy but a definiate relationship
<MTecknology> that still constitutes the same brand?
<newz2000> yes, definitely. the fridge, locos, brainstormâ¦ all prt of Ubuntu
<newz2000> They're just not "the official ubuntu website
<newz2000> does that make sense?
<MTecknology> ya, but by that it sounds like only a website directly related to ubuntu will ever be able to use these themes
<echowarp> kinda the impression i'm getting
<mhall119> that'll be the question, how "related" does a site have to be
<newz2000> Our goal here is to make themes for the Ubuntu community sites. If it can be used for other purposes, fine, but lets keep our focus on our community
<mhall119> are unofficial, unrecognized sites allowed to use the branded them or not
<newz2000> mhall119: here's a good way of describing it...
<newz2000> ubuntu.com will have a sense of formality and officialness to it
<newz2000> Some organizations have a corporate site and a blog site.
<newz2000> The blog usually has less formality to it, but still feels like it's part of the org
<newz2000> regarding unofficial sites, they will need to make changes to the theme to remove the branding and make it not look like one of the official sites
<akgraner> newz2000, right - I like the idea that when people land on the Fridge then there is a sense it's connected...
<newz2000> that has been our policy for at least the 4 years I've been here
<mhall119> newz2000: so http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/en couldn't use the "branded" theme's colors and layout?
<mhall119> like it currently does
<MTecknology> in drupal (and probably most others) you can select colors - it can be a theme option - we could say - that 'this particular style' is not acceptable for unubuntu related sites.
<newz2000> mhall119: We make case-by-case exceptions in those instances. Based on what the purpose of the site is.
<mhall119> okay
<newz2000> ok gang, I think we need to call it a wrap
<MTecknology> newz2000: would that thought work?
<MTecknology> agreed- I need to leave for a meeting in 3min
<newz2000> MTecknology: 	I'd have to see it
<newz2000> let's continue discussions on the maliing list
<MTecknology> newz2000: check out the color module for drupal :)
<MTecknology> afterward*
<stas> I updated the wiki page with some excerp from todays meetup https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/WebThemes
<newz2000> thanks stas
<newz2000> Thanks all for participating and the good discussion
<akgraner> Thanks newz2000
<MTecknology> ttyal
<MTecknology> thanks for the good info
<stas> thanks newz2000 Mat_t and all the rest :)
<drubin> why are there no logs of this last meeting?
<akgraner> drubin, there are - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.txt
<drubin> akgraner: Look at the last date
<drubin> akgraner: OMG I hate transparent proxies
<drubin> akgraner: thanks... ;/
<akgraner> you're wecome
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-22
 * amachu is away: Gone away for now
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-17
<MrChrisDruif> Community Council meeting over?
<soren> There's been no meeting in here for at least 24 hours.
<MrChrisDruif> According to the Fridge there should be a meeting now <_<"
<soren> Indeed.
<soren> However, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda says 11 UTC.
<soren> That's in 24 minutes.
<soren> Lesson: Don't believe everything you read.
<czajkowski> timezones are a large pita
<soren> Timezones aren't that bad. People are :)
<czajkowski> soren: in reading calendars :)
<MrChrisDruif> Google calendar fail :)
<dholbach> popey, sabdfl: is it the three of us?
<sabdfl> looks like it
 * jussi waves and watches from the sidelines.
<dholbach> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda we have one agenda item, as pleia2 is very likely sleeping
<dholbach> is Nathan Bahn around?
<sabdfl> whois nathan-bahn
<sabdfl> erk
<sabdfl> doesn't look like it
<sabdfl> he's got "Revisit" but no other commentary
<sabdfl> has there been a big "save sounder" movement?
<czajkowski> so last meeting they didnt know it was on the agenda, this time it's on the agenda but non of the sounder folks are here :s
<MrChrisDruif> What?
<nigelb> There was a big #blame popey movement though :)
<dholbach> AFAIK there's been a google group set up
<popey> There's a been some OT on -users
<popey> more than usual, which I kinda expected
<popey> and a few snide comments directed at me, but nothing worth worrying about
<dholbach> I personally don't see a reason in the current discussion to change my opinion about the decision
<sabdfl> agreed
<dholbach> and with nobody here to discuss the point, I think it's safe to move on
<sabdfl> this is two rounds, it's sufficient.
<sabdfl> done
<popey> cool.
<dholbach> Does anybody have any other business?
<sabdfl> popey, thanks for your broad shoulders and thick skin :-)
<popey> np
<dholbach> I just have a quick question for popey and sabdfl: did you get my mail about the google doc that I set up to help organise the CC discussions?
<dholbach> at UDS pleia2 and Technoviking told me they hadn't gotten the mail
<sabdfl> haven't read it dholbach
<popey> uhm
<dholbach> ok, I'm happy to re-send it
<dholbach> I'll do it later on
 * sladen waves just incase anyone from the sounder camp claims that nobody knew/nobody could attend
<sabdfl> dholbach: looks like i didn't get it either
<popey> I honestly do read your mail, but don't recall that one dholbach
<dholbach> alright - thanks - I'll take care of it later on
<dholbach> that's all from me - does anyone else have any business to discuss?
<popey> sabdfl: i have a question if you dont mind.
<popey> some of the press have picked up on comments you made during your keynote at UDS
<popey> specifically about the copyright assignment
<popey> wondered if you had a timeline for opening that discussion up ?
<sabdfl> i will blog about it asap
<sabdfl> just got a lot to juggle right now
<popey> ok, ta
<sabdfl> also, been invited to a panel in berlin at Guadec on the subject
 * popey looks when guadec is
<sladen> week after the week after Debconf
<sabdfl> feedback has been positive that folk are glad to see someone at least discussing the rationale from Canonical's perspective
<sabdfl> long overdue
<dholbach> popey, is your question answered?
<popey> yes
<dholbach> awesome
<dholbach> I'm happy to write the team report, it looks like it's going to be a short one ;-)
<popey> \o/
<sabdfl> thanks all!
<dholbach> meeting adjourned then :)
<sabdfl> great UDS
<dholbach> thanks and have a great day everyone
<popey> thanks for coming sladen :)
<zul> do do do
<zul> who is running the meeting today?
<zul> 1 2 3 not it ;)
 * smb is trying to run away... :-P
<SpamapS> Unless smoser forgot to change the page.. he's up. :)
<SpamapS> smoser: ping!
<Daviey> Hello!
 * Daviey raises a smoser ping.
<Daviey> bah
<Daviey> zul, If smoser doesn't arrive shortly are you okay to drive?  (next in list)
<smoser> i am most certainly not up
<SpamapS> right
<smoser> hold on.
<Daviey> smoser, Hmm... are you sure?
<SpamapS> smoser is starting his 6 month sru rotation
<SpamapS> no meetings for him. ;-)
<zul> i aint up for it either :)
<smoser> I last did it on 2011-04-19
<SpamapS> are you guys forgetting to update the page?
<zul> probably..
<Daviey> We didn't have a meeting for the last two weeks, and before that kirkland drove... right?
<SpamapS> ok well in the interest of getting on with it, I'll get on with it
<SpamapS> #startmeeting
<Daviey> which looks like smoser is next, or am i mistaken?
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:03. The chair is SpamapS.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Daviey> SpamapS, good stuff.
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<SpamapS> there were none, moving on
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Oneiric Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Development
<Daviey> Hello!
<Daviey> No doubt everyone is still recovering from the rather successful week at UDS in Budapest last week.
<Daviey> Whilst the sessions are still fresh in our mind, we need to turn to adding work items to the blueprints.  We should strive to have a first draft of blueprints done by the end of the week.  Some blueprints do not yet have a drafter assigned.  Between myself and Robbie, these will be allocated amongst the team with a a best effort of fair and logical choice.
<smoser> (note, i did not send out meeting minutes after 2011-04-19, or add a meeitn page. i will do that now)
<SpamapS> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric
<Daviey> I will send a mail outlining the hows and whys following the meeting.
<SpamapS> Totally worthless right now, but thought I'd share.
<Daviey> i know smoser will cry if i paste it here.
<Daviey> and when not spec'ing... merge, merge, merge!
<smoser> if only we had services that could take a paste and turn it into a link.
<Daviey> But blueprints our the priority right now :)
<smoser> or a tool that could do that from stdin
<SpamapS> and when not merging, triage! We're ridiculously behind
<Daviey> smoser, is that possible?
<Daviey> SpamapS, yes - well caught.
<SpamapS> Anything else?
<Daviey> That is all for now.  Thanks.
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> SpamapS: it was more ridiculous yesterday morning
<SpamapS> zul: yes nice job hammering it down :)
<zul> and hallyn as well
<SpamapS> Since we were all at UDS .. anybody else going to be somewhere or think we should be somewhere in the next month or so?
<Daviey> not here, thank you :)
<zul> at home resting our livers
<SpamapS> Alright then
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<SpamapS> hggdh: good morning!
<hggdh> good morning
<hggdh> we are still working on the changes for this cycle, so input on what we should test for is welcome
<SpamapS> hggdh: I'd be curious to hear how the build-time testing PPA that you had worked out last cycle.
<SpamapS> Meant to ask at UDS
<hggdh> it is there ;-) but we are not running a lot of builds
<Daviey> hggdh, Is it documented anywhere?
<hggdh> what we are looking for is to add in more packages with build-time checks (like, say, coreutils)
<hggdh> just a sec and I will get the current list
<SpamapS> I get a failure for pkgbinarymangler in my email quite often
<hggdh> yes -- have to talk with pitti about that, been in the backburner
<SpamapS> hggdh: shouldn't we be opening bugs for any failures we see?
<hggdh> we can -- perhaps we should, actually
<hggdh> so I will start doing it
<Daviey> hggdh, \o/
<SpamapS> I would almost think we could automate it, except we're limited in what recipes can do.
<hggdh> I also have to update it for building on oneiric
<SpamapS> Cool, well anyway, anything else to report? Otherwise I think we'll move on.
 * Daviey ^5's hggdh 
<hggdh> move on, dear sir, move on. Just please note that we need more packages on the daily build
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> good tod
<smb> I would have two questions
<smb> One, to smoser, I was digging for the srpm for a amazon ami kernel. Does the get_reference_source command ring a bell to you?
<smoser> smb, yeah, i gave you that in the etherpad
<smoser> thats what you need to use
<smoser> that will get you an SRPM
<smb> smoser, damn missed that there somehow
<smb> Ok thanks
<smb> The other thing is iscsitarget
<Daviey> erk.
<smb> Currently there is two versions one ubuntu specific driver in the kernel and a dkms package. The kernel version currently does not compile (maybe got a fix there) and the dkms likely will fail on install
<smb> Probably first thing to ask, do we have hardware to test this thing?
<adam_g> which driver are we talkin about? ietd or the newer upstream generic target framework?
<smb> Second would be whether it being a dkms module would be sufficient, so we could drop the kernel one
<smb> iscsi_trgt.ko
<SpamapS> can't it be tested using tgt ?
<hggdh> (for the record: daily build for Natty: libvirt postgresql-8.4 mysql-5.1 openldap php5 python2.7 coreutils clamav cups gcc gdb pkgbinarymangler pkg-create-dbgsym)
 * smb was hoping the server team knew how to test. :-P
<SpamapS> hggdh: ty
<adam_g> you can test using any block device/LV or raw file within a virtual machine
<smoser> smb, just forwarded you mention of this: https://silverline.librato.com/blog/main/EC2_Users_Should_be_Cautious_When_Booting_Ubuntu_10_04_AMIs
<smb> adam_g, Hm, ok. Maybe there is some simple howto for the setup...?
 * Daviey fears adam_g just signed up to help test it :)
<smb> smoser, ookay...
<adam_g> smb: ive worked with it a bunch in the past, its very easy to setup (assuming we're talking about the same iscsi target)
<adam_g> sure, i can help
<zul> wait i thought tgt got promoted to main or something
<SpamapS> Filename: pool/main/t/tgt/tgt_1.0.13-0ubuntu2_amd64.deb
<smb> That would be cool
 * zul shuts up
<Daviey> adam_g / smb  (http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/ServeriSCSIRoot/KVMExample)
<SpamapS> smb: I had a general question about bugs that we think might be kernel related..
<smb> zul, package seems in universe for oneiric still
<smb> SpamapS, Ok
<smb> Daviey, Thanks
 * RoAkSoAx thinkgs that adam_g just signed up to write documentation and test it :)
<SpamapS> smb: thus far I've just added a task against the 'linux' source package and left it as New. Does that work within the kernel triaging framework? Like, will it ever be seen that way?
<smb> SpamapS, I started to use a tag to make them searchable for me and give JFo some hints. Reminds me that I need to tell him (and you now) which exactÃ¶ly
<adam_g> yes, i can help with iscsi testing/docs. im still a bit unclear as to which target we're using (im the new guy), since there a few
<SpamapS> smb: if you don't have the tag list handy, you can send it to me offline later and I'll include it in the minutes.
<smb> SpamapS, Here it is, I user kernel-server
<smb> used even
<SpamapS> adam_g: you can always assert which one you think we *should* be using.
<SpamapS> smb: ty
<SpamapS> ok, moving on?
<adam_g> SpamapS: certainly
<smb> Ok, I think I got a lot to work on
<smb> adam_g, Will come back to you in case I need more info. :)
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<adam_g> smb: yeah, id like to find out which the kernel team prefers, as theres been a lot of work in this area upstream the last couple of kernels
<Daviey> For community...
<Daviey> Just a note that peer reviews of blueprints will be appreciated.
<hggdh> and test proposals ;-)
<Daviey> Yes!
<zul> and SRUs
<Daviey> and ensemble recipies :)
<SpamapS> Pretty much anything short of insults to our mothers will be appreciated. :)
<Daviey> This cycle we should see more interaction, and areas of oppertunity.
<zul> we are that easy :)
<SpamapS> I think we should also start thinking about acknowledging just how much of the Debian Development effort is centered around servers, and therefore, part of our community.
<SpamapS> Anything else?
<Daviey> not here.
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
 * Daviey waves to adam_g 
<SpamapS> Great UDS everybody!
<SpamapS> hallyn_: you were missed.
<zul> next time ill tape the demo
<Daviey> adam_g is the newest member of the team, and is shortly going to show us how awesome he is.
 * SpamapS covers his eyes
<Daviey> zul, it was recorded.
<adam_g> hi
<adam_g> :)
<zul> Daviey: seriously?
<Daviey> zul, yeah, i thought they all were.
<SpamapS> All plenaries are taped
<Daviey> look out on youtube.
<zul> oh...shoot :)
<Daviey>  http://www.youtube.com/user/ubuntudevelopers <-- keep and eye out for our own zul
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<SpamapS> Tuesday, May 24th 2011 16:00 UTC
<SpamapS> See you all there!
<smoser> just an fyi, was reported to have been on my flight home.
<smoser> err... "JAMES PAGE" was reported to have beeen on that flight.
<SpamapS> smoser: REALLY
<adam_g> confirmed
<SpamapS> OMG
<SpamapS> Thanks everybody
<SpamapS> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:34.
<Daviey> thanks o/
<paultag> Hey guys
<paultag> I  guess we should meet or something
<itnet7> hey there!
<paultag> :)
<paultag> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:04. The chair is paultag.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<paultag> ok ok ok, agenda time
<paultag> Nothing on the a-friend-a.
<paultag> There's a bit from last week WRT LoCo SWAG, is the most fine Mrs. czajkowski in?
<paultag> or if leogg or itnet7, you guys have anything
<itnet7> Hold on, I need to get a quick link
<leogg> I have nothing
<leogg> anything new on the swag front?
<itnet7> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-lococouncil-plans
<paultag> ah, super
<paultag> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-lococouncil-plans
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-lococouncil-plans
<itnet7> While at UDS-0 I just added this blue print for our cycle's plans
<paultag> Oh, my ISO code shin-dig
<paultag> itnet7: you rock my socks
<itnet7> we were asked to do a couple of items, so I had added the ones that I was aware of
<paultag> itnet7: awesome. I added that bit about ISO codes
<paultag> anyone want to chat about that?
<itnet7> Yeah, I noticed that
<paultag> unclean URLs bug me :)
<paultag> I should not have to go to google to find a loco's URL :)
<paultag> (or the LD, I'm lazy)
<itnet7> I do then we should do that... but is there a way to easily migrate them once they have ppa's?
<itnet7> Or rather if they already have PPA's for the team, I mean?
<paultag> itnet7: I have no clue. We should talk with LP about how we can practically set up a migration (and a forward if they could) and make sure the LD can handle it
<itnet7> Sounds good to me
<paultag> leogg: whatcha think?
<leogg> paultag, yep, I agree
<paultag> radical
<paultag> [ACTION] Let's talk with LP about getting LoCo Team team-page's URLs together
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Let's talk with LP about getting LoCo Team team-page's URLs together
<paultag> good 'nuf for goverment work
<highvoltage> hello
 * paultag waves to highvoltage 
<paultag> highvoltage: any ideas? We're just sitting here :)
<paultag> figure they pay us by the hour
<highvoltage> I just kind of stumbled in and I'm not even sure which meeting this is
<paultag> highvoltage: LoCoCoUnCiL
<paultag> It's a ghost-town in here right now
<highvoltage> ideas for the LoCo Team team-page specifically?
<highvoltage> I guess they could all be members of a group called loco-teams
<paultag> ~locoteams :)
<paultag> there's also ~locoteams-approved, and loco.ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> otherwise I'm vaguely planning on doing some loco stuff in Sherbrooke
<paultag> highvoltage: killer!
<stgraber> highvoltage: yay!
<highvoltage> currently we're kind of dead loco wise and that needs fixing
 * paultag waves to stgraber 
<stgraber> hey paultag
<paultag> highvoltage: let us/me know if you need help with anything at all
<highvoltage> stgraber: don't say yay so quick, I'm thinking of a part at our apartment or something when I buy the bbq :)
<highvoltage> *party
<paultag> please tell me you're IRCing from the same room
<highvoltage> paultag: almost, he's in the room next to me
<stgraber> nope, I'm in my office and he's in the open space
<paultag> hahaha
<stgraber> so a good 20s walk from each other
<highvoltage> usually it's less than that though
<paultag> or a nice brisk shout
 * highvoltage hasn't had an ubuntu bbq in a long time
<paultag> OK, who's doing logs?
<paultag> 1,2,3, NOTME!
<highvoltage> well it will be a gas bbq, so no logs
<highvoltage> :p
<stgraber> :)
<paultag> itnet7: leogg: whoever says NOTME first gets to avoid log work :)
<paultag> highvoltage: oh you! :)
<itnet7> not me
<leogg> not me
<itnet7> :-)
<leogg> ;)
<paultag> highvoltage: I just got that as soon as I typed it :)
<paultag> Ahh! Look at that :)
<highvoltage> paultag: oh me?
<paultag> OK, anyone have serious loco-council work?
<paultag> highvoltage: who me?
<highvoltage> 16:24 < paultag> highvoltage: oh you! :)
<paultag> could'nt be!
<paultag> says who?
<paultag> Going once!
<paultag> Twice!
<head_victim> sold?
<paultag> Thrice!
<paultag> Sold!
<paultag> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:21.
<paultag> highvoltage: P.S. -- ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a96TmrxZRXY
<paultag> wait, I did not watch that, I hope it's right
<paultag> wait, that's so not it
<itnet7> highvoltage: was good to see you again! and you to stgraber !!
<itnet7> of course
<paultag> I feel like such a lamer, that link is no good
<paultag> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C6cIpkcwdw <-- that's a better one (but not the original)
<highvoltage> itnet7: likewise!
<stgraber> itnet7: was good seeing you too! had a good flight back home?
<highvoltage> (although next time we should properly hang out)
<itnet7> stgraber: very good
<itnet7> highvoltage: yes, especially if you're able to come to Orlando!!
<highvoltage> yeah!
<paultag> Oh, my life rules right now. Grades posted (I did well!), new episode of House is on Hulu, and I've got an app in mind :)
<paultag> time to zone out
 * highvoltage is also watching House tonight
<paultag> highvoltage: ^5
<highvoltage> paultag: ^5!
<paultag> :)
 * DraZoro just started watching house yesterday 
<paultag> DraZoro: how awesome is it?
<stgraber> highvoltage: oh right, plenty of TV shows tonight (I didn't watch any of what was on TV yesterday yet)
<paultag> DraZoro: the only downside is that you start calling people idiots when you're making a point
<highvoltage> season 4 + 5 ftw. I want to re-watch it some time
<DraZoro> paultag: Dr House is very smart
<paultag> highvoltage: truth
<paultag> DraZoro: :)
<DraZoro> paultag : I just started with Season 5 ....
<highvoltage> if you combine the worst attributes of paultag, myself and stgraber, then you get House
<paultag> DraZoro: there are different people in season 5 then in season 1 :)
<highvoltage> (well he gets the clever parts too)
<DraZoro> paultag: I must get the collection
<paultag> highvoltage: Who's the one addicted to vicoden?
<paultag> DraZoro: for sure!
<DraZoro> This is nice to see highvoltage and paultag in one room ....:)
<paultag> DraZoro: we're bffs
<paultag> i decay, my bff highvoltage
<highvoltage> paultag: I don't know, but you can take the vicoden if I can take cuddy
<paultag> highvoltage: it's cool, I got 13
<highvoltage> deal
<paultag> :)
<paultag> alright, well that about does it. I'll be over in locoteams if anyone wants to keep this going :)
<highvoltage> DraZoro: nice? more like.. dangerous. all of IRC could melt down
<highvoltage> yes, nice locoteams meeting, paultag!
<stgraber> that was an interesting locoteam meeting :)
<paultag> highvoltage: hahaha
<paultag> highvoltage: Oh gee, thanks! :)
<stgraber> *lococouncil
<paultag> stgraber: this is why czajkowski hates letting me chair
<paultag> :)
<stgraber> hehe
<DraZoro> highvoltage : Yeah
<paultag> cat - > Freenode/#ubuntu-locoteams
<DraZoro> paultag : I tried to read the code for fgdesk then I notice my kunfu on c++ is very basic.
<DraZoro> I still have a lot to learn ....
<paultag> DraZoro: it's hard to read because it's some of the worst code I've written in my life :)
<paultag> DraZoro: it "works", but not nearly as good as I'd like, the Marble-widget Qt stuff is not really designed to be a GPS
<DraZoro> paultag: I am getting there
<paultag> DraZoro: :) let me know if I can help
<DraZoro> paultag: I have not yet compiled it ...I still have to install libqt4-dev or qt3-dev-tools
<DraZoro> paultag: Just that internet is very limited for me ...but I will make a plan
<paultag> DraZoro: aye! :) you have to run fg with an enable telnet feature (it uses the socket to talk flight gear with the app)
<MrChrisDruif> LoCo Council meeting?
<paultag> DraZoro: I was planning to fix it up after I get some time :)
<xardas008> MrChrisDruif: is over now
<paultag> MrChrisDruif: it was :)
<paultag> MrChrisDruif: have something you need? We have the bar until 5:00
<paultag> (my time)
<DraZoro> paultag: Let work more on my coding .....I will be done with exams on 24 May ...from there I will dedicate +- 10 hours on ubuntu work per day
<DraZoro> paultag: If I work hard I might be fixing it :)
<paultag> DraZoro: don't burn out! :) -- if you end up fixing up fgdash, I'd be so stoked :)
 * DraZoro is happy his fluxbox is get better 
<MrChrisDruif> paultag; I'll assume that is about 20 mins ;) Anyhow, was there any progress in the Dutch LoCo as far as you know?
<paultag> Oh wait, whoh
<paultag> fbdesk, I thought you meant my little app fgdash
<paultag> oh, right right. fbdesk is confusing too, but I did not write that :)
<DraZoro> paultag: I mean fgdash
<paultag> Oh, awesome awesome :)
<paultag> DraZoro: I'm glad fluxbox is rocking for you
<paultag> MrChrisDruif: humm.
<paultag> MrChrisDruif: let me go through my records for anything, one sec
<DraZoro> paultag : Yeah just have to configure urxvt-unicode to show colours ....
<MrChrisDruif> paultag; I've got time, next meeting is mine...well, of the UBT Wiki FG ;)
<DraZoro> paultag: I get used to this stuff of reading and following manuals
<paultag> MrChrisDruif: yes, and it's in great shape. We had a bit of a bump when we ignored a mail for about 4 months, but we tried to get back
<paultag> MrChrisDruif: sense is doing a great job
<paultag> DraZoro: aye! :)
<paultag> MrChrisDruif: Oh, awesome!!
<paultag> MrChrisDruif: I'll stick around for it (and if you need the place early, we're not doing anything)
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, good to hear. Any notice about when we might be an approved LoCo again?
<paultag> MrChrisDruif: We've recieved no application yet, but sense mentioned waiting until the new structure is in place
<MrChrisDruif> Meh, mail etc said 9 PM UTC, so we're still cool
<paultag> MrChrisDruif: which I support totally
<DraZoro> paultag: There more I get back to the code for fgdash there more I figure out I am still in level 1
 * DraZoro hopes will pass a patch soon to paultag 
<paultag> DraZoro: fgdash can be confusing because it uses so much Qt
<paultag> DraZoro: please!!! :)
<paultag> people have no idea how much I *LOVE* patches
<paultag> they make my day
<DraZoro> paultag : I know better
<paultag> :P
<MrChrisDruif> But thanks for the lowdown paultag :)
<MrChrisDruif> Made the LoCo happy ;)
<paultag> sure thing :)
<paultag> MrChrisDruif: keep on rocking, you guys have always been a kickass bunch
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks, I never knew that :)
<paultag> :)
<UndiFineD> .. in a free world
<MrChrisDruif> There is no need for money ;)
<UndiFineD> I love neill young for that song
<MrChrisDruif> Everyone in for the UBT Wiki FG meeting?
<paultag> o7
<xardas008> ay
<head_victim> Morning
<UndiFineD> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:01. The chair is UndiFineD.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<UndiFineD> hello everyone, who is here ?
 * head_victim waves
<xardas008> me
<AndrewMC> me
<UndiFineD> and not MrChrisDruif
 * MrChrisDruif me
<UndiFineD> :P
<coalwater> im just gonna see how a meeting is like lol :D
<UndiFineD> #topic New members
<MrChrisDruif> A single /me doesn't work
<MrChrisDruif> <_<"
<paultag>    [TOPIC] MrChrisDruif
<UndiFineD> heh
<paultag> #topic is nothing :)
<MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD; it's [TOPIC] New members
<paultag> Oh sorry, UndiFineD
<paultag> my fauly
<paultag> sed s/y/t/g
<UndiFineD> we have 3 new members: Chris Druif [[MrChrisDruif]] , Jens Leineweber [[NRWlion]] and Joseph James Mills [[bobweaver]]
<MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD; Topic hasn't changed
<UndiFineD> [TOPIC] New members
<MootBot> New Topic:  New members
<UndiFineD> we have 3 new members: Chris Druif [[MrChrisDruif]] , Jens Leineweber [[NRWlion]] and Joseph James Mills [[bobweaver]]
<UndiFineD> welcome
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks :)
<xardas008> welcome
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks again :)
<UndiFineD> after some time in the dark, it is great to pick this team up again and get going
<MrChrisDruif> Indeed, +1
<UndiFineD> [TOPIC] tag pages
<MootBot> New Topic:  tag pages
<UndiFineD> One of our first and important works will be to tag pages
<UndiFineD> as requested, find pages that can be deleted
<MrChrisDruif> Like 8.04 and older?
<head_victim> As long as it's not something that can be reworked to make it relevant
<UndiFineD> yes, 8.04 went EOL last month
<UndiFineD> so they should be save to be marked
<MrChrisDruif> As long as there's no relevant info on it of course
<eaespinoza0> I'm here
<MrChrisDruif> Great, you've made it eaespinoza0
<UndiFineD> however, any admins around ? we can not delete them immediatly, we still need to see if there is important information on them that needs to be rewritten for current and future page versions
<MrChrisDruif> That reminds me...
<head_victim> UndiFineD: I was looking at becoming and admin but not one yet
<UndiFineD> well, with the big clean ups we have at hand, it might be safer not to have that right just yet
<UndiFineD> other things we are looking for are for example: pages that mention shipit
<xardas008> that should be easily done by searching for that keyword
<UndiFineD> just comment those things out I think
<MrChrisDruif> It should refer to the ShipIt page is what I am thinking. No need to duplicate data
<xardas008> i found a paragraph just yesterday
<MrChrisDruif> It still exist right? But no longer free afaik
<UndiFineD> are there any more of those silly things everyne forgot about ?
<head_victim> MrChrisDruif: shipit as it was is gone, you can buy them through the store is my understanding
<UndiFineD> overall, there are +4000 community wiki pages
<MrChrisDruif> How do you mean UndiFineD ?
<UndiFineD> I do not expect them to be done overnight
<UndiFineD> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UndiFineD/documentation
<xardas008> ok shipit seem to be just 4 pages
<UndiFineD> I did that in a week
<MrChrisDruif> Just have them ready at next meeting ;)
<eaespinoza0> may I ask what is shipit?
<head_victim> UndiFineD: Tagging makes it easier for those of us who don't have lots of time to trawl to get in and make changes
<DraZoro> eaespinoza0: A free ubuntu cd service which Conanical use to provide
<UndiFineD> now what I started to do there was marking nearly every page with tags:  <<Include(Tag/ContentCleanup)>> <<Include(Tag/StyleCleanup)>> <<Include(Tag/NeedsExpansion)>>
<UndiFineD> that is NOT the way, so I corrected myself
<UndiFineD> instead we really should work here with the documentation team on creating and refreshing pages
<UndiFineD> preferrable in mallard xml format
<MrChrisDruif> So we do not mark the pages, but instead work on them?
<MrChrisDruif> Work on those that have been tagged*
<UndiFineD> well, you do not want to leave some 4000 pages all hooked up with tags that they need altering
<UndiFineD> it is not very community friendly
<MrChrisDruif> xD
<MrChrisDruif> But what I said was correct?
<UndiFineD> instead pick a (few) pages for reservation and rework them as part of the Summer of Documentation
<UndiFineD> by placing those pages on the SoD list you mark them
<UndiFineD> so yes MrChrisDruif
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, I think that this is clear, maybe move to the next topic?
<UndiFineD> any comments or questions ?
<MrChrisDruif> And thanks for explaining UndiFineD :)
<UndiFineD> [TOPIC] Style guide
<MootBot> New Topic:  Style guide
<eaespinoza0> [AGREED]
<UndiFineD> the documentation team is wanting to rework their style guide, great, Mallard has some default styles that are listed in some UDS blueprint that I forgot to copy
<UndiFineD> I can look it up but would taks me some time
<MrChrisDruif> eaespinoza0; Those [COMMAND] things are for the chair, you don't need to use them :)
<eaespinoza0> ok
<UndiFineD> I will send that off on the ML latoron if thats ok
<xardas008> ok
<MrChrisDruif> Sure I guess :)
<eaespinoza0> what's ML latoron?
<UndiFineD> it has some mentionings like copyright, email etc
<MrChrisDruif> eaespinoza0; ML = Mailing-list
<UndiFineD> eaespinoza0, Mailing list - later on
<MrChrisDruif> Latoron should be later on
<eaespinoza0> understand!
<eaespinoza0> it's ok for me
<UndiFineD> [TOPIC] Mallard xml
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mallard xml
<MrChrisDruif> But the doc team is changing/updating it's style?
<UndiFineD> now my guess is most of us do not know what mallard is exactly or how to write it, even I who looked into it, would prefer some lessons
<eaespinoza0> agree!
<UndiFineD> MrChrisDruif, yes, but it is already pretty well defined, just not very visible
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, so we can read all about it in the ML?
<xardas008> i hear of it the first time
<xardas008> but xml is not that difficult
<UndiFineD> is there anyone who does know how to write mallard and could give us some help in that ?
<MrChrisDruif> Because of the agenda I heard about it before today
<UndiFineD> there is http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/index.html
<MrChrisDruif> Maybe we could ask someone from #ubuntu-doc
<head_victim> UndiFineD: so where does mallard sit in the scheme of things, I assumed, probably incorrectly, it was just a way of putting help files in Ubuntu but from what you're saying it is actually a way of writing wiki pages?
<UndiFineD> head_victim, mallard is the chosen way of writing documentation, it can be converted to wiki or system documentation or ubuntu manual
<MrChrisDruif> And what is the effect of mallard to the wiki pages? New syntax?
<UndiFineD> so, once written, we can transform it to all of them
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, so it's like a unified base for all three systems in place? :)
<MrChrisDruif> *that are in place*
<UndiFineD> I actually suggested, to hack on fckeditor that could produce mallard and moin wiki format
<xardas008> seems that mallard uses internally the functionallity of xslt
<UndiFineD> xardas008, might be, did not read into the finer details yet
<MrChrisDruif> [LINK] http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/index.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/index.html
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks MootBot
<xardas008> xslt is an xml processor for transforming so this was my first thought
<UndiFineD> :)
<UndiFineD> yeah that seems quite logic xardas008 , thanks
<UndiFineD> well, I think we need to find ourselves a teacher here
<xardas008> looks not very difficult on the first sight
 * phillw will collar someone from the docs team to get in touch.
<UndiFineD> jbicha ?
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks phillw, I didn't want it on my plate just yet :)
<phillw> is oaky, I'm on thier ML anyway :)
<UndiFineD> thank phillw
<UndiFineD> [TOPIC] help.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> New Topic:  help.ubuntu.com
<MrChrisDruif> [ACTION] phillw will collar someone from the docs team to teach Mallard
<MrChrisDruif> Meh...
<UndiFineD> as I understand this will be one of the primairy sources of information in english and for LoCo languages
<MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD; copy my action post
<UndiFineD> [ACTION] phillw will collar someone from the docs team to teach Mallard
<MootBot> ACTION received:  phillw will collar someone from the docs team to teach Mallard
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks :)
<UndiFineD> that would likely look something like this: https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/nl/index.html (404)
<MrChrisDruif> Source of that info? As I think it's odd in my eyes that the LoCo teams would use it.
<UndiFineD> this comes from UDS too
<MrChrisDruif> Or would it just move all the LoCo pages to the help.u.c place?
<head_victim> MrChrisDruif: the loco reference is for non english speaking loco's
<MrChrisDruif> head_victim; That's why I thought it was odd
<UndiFineD> the default english pages would be put up for translation, and offers the benefit of a central repository for all languages help
<UndiFineD> I do not think this is a question any more and will happen
<jbicha> UndiFineD: sorry I've got too much going on this week
<UndiFineD> it allows for online help from the desktop applications
<MrChrisDruif> That would be nice, but a lot of the doc items are already translated? The docs supplied with the installation for instance?
<UndiFineD> jbicha, thats ok
<jbicha> http://projectmallard.org/ and there's a decent amount of gnome help in the format already, just check the source code and copy the good parts
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://projectmallard.org/ and there's a decent amount of gnome help in the format already, just check the source code and copy the good parts
<jbicha> yikes, it's a bot
<UndiFineD> heh
<MrChrisDruif> Only problem was that it recieved a [LINK] without the command ;)
<UndiFineD> MrChrisDruif, the current documentation loco teams have, they can keep it, but would likely become out of date in the future
<MrChrisDruif> Or maybe a good opportunity to let the LoCo help with the move?
<MrChrisDruif> Maybe even get some extra admins? O:-)
 * MrChrisDruif is hopeful ;)
<UndiFineD> I suggested that too, that the loco's get help transforming
<UndiFineD> mmm, depending on the new structure, we might need to reform the community part as well
<UndiFineD> just thought of this
<head_victim> New structure of what?
<MrChrisDruif> Reform the community?
<MrChrisDruif> New structure?
<UndiFineD> being relative the same as the official help
<UndiFineD> https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/nl/index.html (404)
<UndiFineD> is what I think it may look like
<UndiFineD> the url that is
<MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD; That's a 404 with me
<MrChrisDruif> As in not findable
<xardas008> it was just an example for the url not the page
<MrChrisDruif> That way the docs would get VERY version dependent =-O
<UndiFineD> currently we have pages named like JapaneseFontsSetup
<UndiFineD> bad example, as it may have 2 meanings
<UndiFineD> but might need to be renamed to 11.04/jp/fonts/setup
<spynappels> Does that mean that there may be multiple versions of a page?
<MrChrisDruif> Maybe without the version
<spynappels> one version for each supported release?
<MrChrisDruif> And explain possible difference on the page
<spynappels> or can they be linked?
<spynappels> like a "symlink"
<xardas008> when i understood that correct it should be an online help for the programs in ubuntu? So it is by default version independent
<MrChrisDruif> Or redirect from the new page to the old if things haven't changed
<UndiFineD> spynappels, there is <<include>> :)
<MrChrisDruif> Spynappels?
<spynappels> yes?
<MrChrisDruif> Ow....never noticed it was your nick, sorry :)
<spynappels> no prob
<UndiFineD> often the best way here, is to recreate the pages and mark the old ones for deletion with comment pointing to the new url
<MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD; So just include the older page?
 * MrChrisDruif doesn't get it. Recreate the page, mark old onces for deletion?
<UndiFineD> JapaneseFontsSetup to 11.04/jp/fonts/setup
<spynappels> Then would it be an idea to maintain a master page with all pertinent information and include that with any version specific changes/additions?
<UndiFineD> page JapaneseFontsSetup is tagged for deletion and in comment there is a pointer to the new 11.04/jp/fonts/setup
<UndiFineD> this is not the greatest example
<UndiFineD> spynappels, that is why we have our Summer of Documentation project :)
<UndiFineD> you mark a pages as yours in remake
<MrChrisDruif> I think it's better to redirect then to delete
<MrChrisDruif> That way when people have bookmarked a page they get to the new page instead of an empty page
<xardas008> or maybe only delete after support time is over?
<phillw> +1
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; Yeah, I learn quickly ;)
<UndiFineD> yeah, that might be a great idea
<spynappels> @xardas008 That seems a reasonable suggestion, natural wastage will get rid of the pages eventually anyway
<jbicha> I don't think putting a version number as part of every page's title is a good idea
<phillw> I am loathe to delete a page. If it is a couple of years out of date, then yeah.
<head_victim> jbicha: I concur, it will require a large effort each release to check, confirm and copy each page for every release
<jbicha> you could use a category & a table of contents heirarchy to mark a set of pages for a particular version
<phillw> but redirects are the best way.
<jbicha> that way it could be in multiple versions easily
<MrChrisDruif> +1 on jbicha
<UndiFineD> jbicha, it would make community more compatible with the official help
<UndiFineD> jbicha, that is also true
<jbicha> well the Desktop Guide only has the version number in it because that's where it's stored, it doesn't require renaming pages
<MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD; I think that it will be defined in the Styling Guide?
<spynappels> it would also make updating easier, if a release is no longer supported, only a small section needs to be removed.
<UndiFineD> jbicha, well I think we go with that for now then, only need to make versionable categories then
<MrChrisDruif> spynappels; There are a lot of pages
<UndiFineD> spynappels, +4000
<MrChrisDruif> So "a small" section I wouldn't call it.
<UndiFineD> I would like to wrap this topic and move on
<MrChrisDruif> But UndiFineD, won't it be defined in the new styling guide?
<UndiFineD> I hope so :)
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, then I think it's indeed time for the next [TOPIC]
<UndiFineD> [TOPIC] Summer of Documentation 2011
<MootBot> New Topic:  Summer of Documentation 2011
<UndiFineD> yes I am skipping Ubuntu Manual
<MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD; There is no meeting planned after this one, so it's alright if we run late
<MrChrisDruif> We are already running late ;)
<xardas008> MrChrisDruif: but i will fell asleep soon i think xD
<UndiFineD> for the 4th year in a row we have our Summer of Documentation projects, most details are already given above
<UndiFineD> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Docs/SoD2011
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Docs/SoD2011
<UndiFineD> there are some more pages to be expected to be put up there by people, but feel free to pick some and add your name to the list of the pages you want to rework
<MrChrisDruif> Alright
<UndiFineD> This can be all across the *buntu family including Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu and Lubuntu
<MrChrisDruif> Maybe add that Ubuntu Manual accessibility to that page?
<MrChrisDruif> Yay for Lubuntu :D
<MrChrisDruif> \o/
<UndiFineD> MrChrisDruif, AlanBell actually wrote something up yesterday they might be able to use
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, great :)
<UndiFineD> so Last point MrChrisDruif
<UndiFineD> [TOPIC] Regular meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Regular meetings
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, I think UndiFineD would agree with me (as he started with a comment similar) I would like to have regular intervals between the meetings
<UndiFineD> I do
<UndiFineD> what would be good ? 2 weeks a month ?
<MrChrisDruif> I don't think bi-monthly meeting is a bit long, so either a weekly, bi-weekly or monthly meeting would be great :)
<UndiFineD> anyone else ?
<MrChrisDruif> xardas008 fell asleep ;)
<xardas008> not yet xD
<xardas008> depends on the topics i think
<xardas008> if there are important ones weekly would be good, but bi-weekly is also enough i think
<UndiFineD> well as I have shown above all the topics are linked, so they are most likely to stay
<MrChrisDruif> I think I would be a +1 on bi-weekly
<UndiFineD> we just get more into the details
<MrChrisDruif> Weekly is a bit much :D
<UndiFineD> it has a +1 from me too
<MrChrisDruif> IMHO anyway
<MrChrisDruif> Alright...so bi-weekly?
<xardas008> +1
<MrChrisDruif> Alright...same day?
<phillw> provided someone pokes me before it starts :)
<UndiFineD> seems agreeable next meeting then somewhere in 2 weeks, timing with a more flexible doodle
<MrChrisDruif> Even more flexible? :P
<UndiFineD> since some people could not make it tonight
<MrChrisDruif> Only 3 of the 9 couldn't make it tonight
<UndiFineD> well, I think that is it for tonight.
<UndiFineD> any thing else ?
<MrChrisDruif> One of which has stops all activity on freenode
<MrChrisDruif> stopped*
<UndiFineD> :/
<MrChrisDruif> I'd like to set the next meeting if that's alright
<UndiFineD> no doodle ?
<MrChrisDruif> Preferably not O:-)
<MrChrisDruif> Anyone?
<UndiFineD> phillw, xardas008 ?
<xardas008> hm?
<UndiFineD> head_victim, ?
<MrChrisDruif> Next meeting; doodle or set it now
<phillw> I'm pretty flexible on times
<UndiFineD> eaespinoza0, ?
<xardas008> i'm free with everything
<eaespinoza0> yea
<head_victim> My times constantly change so I just come when I can or read logs
<eaespinoza0> yeah?
<UndiFineD> seems we have a flexible group
<MrChrisDruif> It's not a two man show eaespinoza0, hence we want some input on when to plan the next meeting
<MrChrisDruif> ;)
<eaespinoza0> okay sorry job toke me away a few minutes and lost the attention
<UndiFineD> we will pick a free slot in 2 weeks
<eaespinoza0> I'm going for doodle to figure out a window for everyone
<phillw> UndiFineD: as long as it posted up on the topic for the room a.s.a.p. that gives most of us chance to make arrangements or scream!
<UndiFineD> eaespinoza0, well we can, but are limited to the fridge too
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; the topic redirects to the wiki page
<MrChrisDruif> Just keep an eye out for the update of the bulletin ;)
<UndiFineD> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:19.
<MrChrisDruif> Timewarp hole =-O
<UndiFineD> heh
<MrChrisDruif> I thought it was 12:20 AM :P
<phillw> do not forget, if ubuntu-meeting is booked, you do have meetingology on your channel.
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; I know how to "book" the channel :)
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: not if someone got there 1st :P
<MrChrisDruif> Indeed, that's why I wanted to book this evening ;)
<xardas008> ok i will be off for now, sleep well everybody
<MrChrisDruif> Sleep well xardas008
<UndiFineD> gn xardas008
<phillw> tc xardas008
<MrChrisDruif> But will we put out an doodle?
<UndiFineD> well we can but are limited to the fridge i thing
<MrChrisDruif> It's pretty open in 2 weeks
<MrChrisDruif> So a doodle it is?
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-18
<jam> poke barry
<barry> jam: hi!
<Riddell> hi
<barry> Riddell: hi!
<jam> see, I *can* make it to meeting
<jam> meetings
<barry> \o/
<barry> :)
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 06:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hello everyone and welcome to this week's udd steering committee meeting.  who's here today?
<poolie> hi all
<jelmer> hi
<maxb> hi
<spiv> Hi
<Riddell> moi
<barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110504
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110504
<jam> hello
 * poolie prods vila
<barry> it's probably a little early for slangasek :)
<james_w> hi
<poolie> hi!
<jam> poolie: vila isn't in the channel
<poolie> let's go?
<barry> okay!
<poolie> what a great uds
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry> poolie: it was!
<barry>    * jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports
<barry> now, i know there was an idea that maybe there was a better/easier way to accomplish the same goal w/o looms?
<poolie> i don't think jam specifically sent a plan about it
<jam> barry: no specific progress. Focused on other things, but I think this is still one of the "we need to get to this soon" for UDD
<poolie> there was some interesting discussion about this along the lines of
<poolie> maybe we should just do the merge in a similra way and at least as well as people do by hand
<poolie> and then later move to looms
<poolie> so that would be basically, take the patches off the wt, reapply them merging as you go
<jam> I think there was also a question of whether we could just write a helper that could stitch together quilts as part of post-merge stuff
<jam> right
<poolie> i guess we should have an action to make a specific proposal nad decisiono on this
<poolie> it is a compromise
<poolie> but perhaps a good intermediate one
<jam> poolie: though it might also lead to something that allows us to merge looms, which we also don't have yet
<poolie> indeed
<jam> at least, leads us to exploring the area, even if the exact code isn't usable
<poolie> do people want to discuss it here and now or should we just leave the item to make a proposal
<barry> poolie: i agree.  i think we should remove jam's action item and replace it with one to study the feasibility of merge helper instead.
<poolie> jelmer, would you take that?
<jelmer> poolie, already in my queue :)
<jelmer> bug 608675
<poolie> cool
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 608675 in bzr-builddeb "merge-package should have support for manipulating quilt v3 patch stacks" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608675
<poolie> next?
<spiv> I think the infrastructure we'd add to support that would be useful for some other kinds of custom merges, so even if it's not used by udd in the long term it's still a useful investment for bzr.
<poolie> yes
<barry> jelmer: awesome.  jam: any objections to removing your action item?
<jam> barry: fine with me
<vila> well, regarding looms, I already encountered bugs with just trying to use the same loom on my desktop and my laptop, i.e. just pushing looms has already some rough edges, I think I understand enough now to write failing tests for it
<barry> [ACTION] jelmer to study the feasibility of merge helper (bug 608675)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jelmer to study the feasibility of merge helper (bug 608675)
<barry> vila: as i mentioned to poolie, i'm somewhat conflicted, because aside from udd, i'd still love to see great support for looms :)
<poolie> right
<barry> vila, poolie is there an action item lurking there for next time?
<poolie> however, perhaps we should skew mor etowards shorter dependency chains
<jelmer> barry: me too, I think properly working looms would be really nice for this
<vila> oh, what I meant was that I will work on that as I definitely want better loom support
<poolie> not blocking quilt support on getting great looms, including in lp etc
<vila> right, let's get rid of the rough edges first
<spiv> poolie: +1
<barry> sounds good.  no action item then, but if you have some good stuff to report next time, we'll definitely make time for that
<poolie> it's partly the lp dependency that tips the scales for me
<poolie> tehy are supported but you can't properly viwe or review them yet
<poolie> k
<barry> yep
<barry> okay, this one's done but just ftr:
<barry>    * poolie to send link to plenary proposal.  all to help finish that
<barry>  
<poolie> just to be clear, the oaction here is that jelmer will make a more detailed proposal about doing it this one
<poolie> yes, i'm happy it was done
<poolie> seemed pretty popular
<poolie> jml and james_w also did cool presesntations
<barry> yep, both were great.  definitely check out the online videos (not sure if they're up yet)
<barry> [TOPIC]  * UDS-O session review
<MootBot> New Topic:   * UDS-O session review
<barry>    * https://blueprints.launchpad.net/udd/+spec/foundations-o-udd-planning
<barry>    * https://blueprints.launchpad.net/udd/+spec/foundations-o-udd-onramp
<Riddell> notes at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/foundations-o-udd-onramp/
<Riddell> and http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/foundations-o-udd-planning/
<poolie> thanks
<poolie> these were also good
<barry> the onramp session was less onramp and more feedback.  i was really happy to see a general enthusiasm and buy-in for udd.
<poolie> yes, definitely a step up since last time
<poolie> i should probably take an action to send a condensed form of these
<barry> good idea
<barry> [ACTION] poolie to send condensed summary of uds sessions
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to send condensed summary of uds sessions
<poolie> there are a bunch of things but it seemed there was agreement the most useful immediate thing was to get all imports working
<poolie> thats also a nice simple clear goal
<barry> there was a run-down of the top failures, and none of the really big ones seemed intractable
<poolie> so i propose to have the canonical-bazaar team do that first
<barry> iirc, fixing those would slash the failures roughly in half
<poolie> right
<james_w> do we want to timebox that effort?
<poolie> some have been fixed this week
<poolie> mm
<maxb> Of the failures, the one most obviously in need of design is how to handle multiple source tarball packages
<poolie> one good arbitrary time would be the next Canonical quarterly planning cycle
<poolie> which would be
<poolie> ... the start of august?
<maxb> There are 66 multiple source tarball failures
<james_w> so the goal is only "hard" failures left by the start of August?
<barry> maxb: what's the underlying cause of those?
<poolie> pretty much
<maxb> barry: The importer specifically omits support for them
<james_w> or no failures left, except those with an explanation why it's not worth doing?
<poolie> i think there is some kind of effect where the importer is seen as scary to change
<poolie> or, not in the normal queue of things people look at
<poolie> i'd like to crack that
<jml> poolie: wasn't getting all the imports working a goal many quarters ago?
<poolie> yes, but there were too many other goals at the same time
<jml> fair enough.
<poolie> so, this time for sure
<barry> poolie: perhaps we can have an action item for next time which would be a summary of the current importer failures and a rough HARD/NOTHARD classification, along with # of failures each would fix?
<poolie> good idea
<poolie> also, let's keep score every week of the count
<barry> great idea.  who can i give that to?
<vila> http://webnumbr.com/ubuntu-package-import-failures
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://webnumbr.com/ubuntu-package-import-failures
<Riddell> barry: I can try
<maxb> The top failure right now is fallout from packagers doing push --overwrite --- that's a hard one, because it will involve a fair bit of looking at individual branches
<barry> Riddell: awesome, thaks
<spiv> vila: there's also a graph at the bottom of http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<barry> er, thanks
<barry> [ACTION] Riddell to give summary of current failures w/HARD/NOTHARD classification
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Riddell to give summary of current failures w/HARD/NOTHARD classification
<vila> right, honestly, none of them got the scale right though ;)
<barry> any other feedback on the uds sessions?
<poolie> hm
<vila> spiv: but we could/should probably fix the one at p-i.u.c
<poolie> i would like suggestions on organizational or other hacks we can do to get the right attention on udd
<spiv> vila's link with spikes flattened somewhat: http://webnumbr.com/ubuntu-package-import-failures.below%283000%29
<poolie> i guess the other big thing at uds was discussion of bfbia
<poolie> which seemed generally welcomed...
<barry> poolie: right, i should have included a link to that, sorry
<poolie> but probably.. .better to get this done first then think about it
<vila> spiv: \o/
<poolie> if we do well, we may still have a prototype by uds-p
<spiv> Why do we allow --overwrite for those branches?
<barry> poolie: that would rock.  i want to convince ScottK by the sheer awesomeness of the feature :)
<jelmer> spiv, we simply have no way to prevent it afaik
<jelmer> poolie: that'd be neat :)
<spiv> jelmer: well, setting append_revisions_only=True on those branches would at least discourage it?
<poolie> indeed :)
<poolie> doing that across all launchpad by default would be nice
<poolie> there's a bug for that
<barry> shall we move on?
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Package importer progress
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Package importer progress
<barry> not sure there's much more to say about that one
<barry> so...
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Bugs of interest:
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Bugs of interest:
<poolie> pretty much covered it
<jam> poolie: probably could be an action item. We could just go to the importer and do a for loop, since the james_w user can write to all those branches
<poolie> seem slike we still got through a lot of bugs
<barry> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.htm
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.htm
<poolie> you probably saw john's blog post
<jam> for $branch in branches: bzr config -d$branch append_revision_only=True
<jelmer> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<barry> jelmer: heh, thanks
<barry> once again, stunningly impressive
<poolie> the pqm machine is having a tough week :)
<jelmer> jam: does --overwrite honor append_revisions_only ?
<barry> :D
<jam> jelmer: I can't say without testing
<poolie> one thing that sticks out there is the number of nonreleasede fixes
<jam> but it would still handle the primary case
<poolie> perhaps we need bzr-svn etc releases?
<jam> most people don't --overwrite all the time
<poolie> (or the data may be old)
<vila> poolie: not to mention that jubany is on 2.3 ?
<barry> vila: wasn't there an action to get that updated?
<poolie> is it now?
<jelmer> it's not released yet
<vila> just checked, 2.3.1
<poolie> we could file an rt about that?
<jam> jelmer: quick testing: "bzr push --overwrite" > bzr: ERROR: Operation denied because it would change the main history, which is not permitted by the
<jam>  append_revisions_only setting on branch "C:/Users/jameinel/dev/,tmp/x/".
<poolie> so, mostly: jml, james_w, barry, is there anything you think we should be doing but are neglecting?
<jam> jelmer: so yes, append_revisions_only refused --overwrite
<barry> poolie: bug 609187 ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 609187 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "users are not warned when branching ubuntu:foo (or lp:ubuntu/foo) and the package import of foo is out of date" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609187
<vila> jam: oh, great ! And what if you specify it in locations.conf ?
<jelmer> jam: ah, interesting
<poolie> mm good idea
<jelmer> jam: I should add a test for that and fix bzr-svn/bzr-hg/bzr-git :)
<poolie> oh, there's a related thing
<jelmer> jam: Thanks
<poolie> which is that lp has been on a fairly old bzr for a while
<maxb> In that case, we need a --really-overwrite before we can turn on append_revisions_only for UDD branches, as the importer needs to be able to overwrite the branch if it detects a collision
<poolie> and the bug that blocks upgrading is now fixed
<poolie> so, we can push that through
<jam> vila: it has the same affect, but it won't affect *anyone else*
<jelmer> maxb, we could potentially override append_revisions_only = False for the importer using locations.conf
<spiv> maxb: the importer could temporarily unset that flag, push --overwrite, reset it.
<vila> jam: bah, sorry, badly worded. What if the remote branch has append_revisions_only=True, but you say a_r_o = False in locations.conf
<jam> vila: I would guess it would override
<vila> :-/
<jam> just like all our other things do
<jelmer> vila: That seems sensible - if somebody really wants to override they can always just edit .bzr/branch/last-revision
<jam> vila: bzr has always been about consenting adults
<jam> I'm not sure if bzr+ssh will get in the way, and the remote bzr will refuse
<jam> that takes a bit more to test
<vila> yup, that's a flaw in our config scheme I think, this settings are under the server responsability and we should somehow require some special powers to change/override them
<vila> jam: :)
<poolie> k
<poolie> so after lp is running a new bzr, we can start doing something towards a warning message
<jelmer> maybe I should look at bug 609187
<poolie> what else?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 609187 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "users are not warned when branching ubuntu:foo (or lp:ubuntu/foo) and the package import of foo is out of date" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609187
<poolie> that's the one
<barry> jelmer: that would be really great.  it would really simplify the docs and give people peace of mind
<barry> hope you don't mind...
<barry> [ACTION] jelmer to look into bug 609187
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jelmer to look into bug 609187
<jam> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609187
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/609187
<poolie> let's move on
<poolie> we'll talk about it here
<barry> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<barry> any good news, or other interesting items folks have?
<poolie> we fixed a ton of bugs
<poolie> srus are proceeding
<poolie> riddell is getting some bugs fixed
<spiv> 2.4 is going to be much faster for many things thanks to jam
<poolie> i think that's it
<poolie> thanks for coming guys
<barry> on that note
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:41.
<barry> thanks everyone
<jelmer> thanks barry
<vila> thanks barry
<cjwatson> gooooooooooood afternoon
<mvo> hello
 * slangasek waves
<barry> good morning too! :)
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * stgraber waves
<doko> hi
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  lightning round
<ev> hiya
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko csurbhi stgraber jhunt mvo ev vorlon bdmurray)
<slangasek> csurbhi barry vorlon ev jhunt cjwatson mvo doko bdmurray stgraber
<barry> is psurbhi here?
<mvo> does "UDS week" count as "what I did last week" ?
<slangasek> barry: looking for csurbhi; do you want to start?
<slangasek> mvo: oh, but what did you do with the *rest* of your week? :)
<barry> starting on launchpad py27 ppa; udd stakeholders meeting; uds-o work items; pep 382 planning.  todo: more of the same.  done.
<slangasek> surely UDS only accounts for about 80 hours of your time...
<slangasek> csurbhi1: hey there, you're next :)
<mvo> haha :)
<cjwatson> jhunt is on holiday IIRC
<slangasek> yep
<csurbhi1> *) eye balled the ext4 mmapped patches
<csurbhi1> *) set up kvm for mdadm bugs - going through the old patchsets and testings
<csurbhi1> (done)
<csurbhi1> i had a very small week
<csurbhi1> was on a holiday on monday and tuesday
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> let's see, what have I done...
<slangasek> dealing out blueprint drafting to people; working to get an upstart sprint going this cycle; started drafting of my own blueprints
<slangasek> that's about it...
<slangasek> ev:
<slangasek> must be fire drill time ;P
<slangasek> cjwatson:
<cjwatson> So far this week I have:
<cjwatson>  * worked on a bunch of transitions, as described on ubuntu-devel; swathes of associated archive admin
<cjwatson>  * started conversion from livecd-rootfs to live-build, since the ARM team feel blocked on this and we'd better do it early - this is very time-consuming, but making progress
<cjwatson>  * packaged GRUB 1.99, and landed some previously approved post-1.99 patches upstream
<cjwatson>  * done a handful of merges
<cjwatson>  * not written up any specs (yet)
<cjwatson> To do: continue with live-build work, write up foundations-o-great-cd-debate, ensure that my carried-over work items from natty make it onto the current tracker, get oneiric CD builds going
<slangasek> ev: (jump in again when you're ready)
<cjwatson> --
<slangasek> livecd-rootfs to live-build - interesting, hadn't gleaned that this was an outcome of UDS
<slangasek> mvo:
<mvo> last week: UDS
<mvo> this week: spec drafting, sofware-center SRU to fix review-stats loader bug,
<mvo> some early profiling for dpkg on btrfs (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptBtrfsSnapshot), SoC work for apt, software-center code cleanup,
<mvo> refactor for the road ahead, update-manager: fix UnitySupport bug
<mvo> rest of the week: specs work, finish software-center pyflakes-clean branch
<mvo> (done)
<mvo> cjwatson: out of curiosity, how did you debug 683904 (the memtest86+ grub fix). I saw the diff, but was wondering what kind of debug machinery you used to find the actual problem?
<mvo> (oh, and I'm on vac on friday, just fyi)
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> gcc-4.6 Linaro merge, openjdk-6 update (for armel jamvm test rebuild), some merges, no drafting yet
<doko> done
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<ev> apols, ready now
<slangasek> ev: go ahead; then bdmurray
<ev> Short week; was at a conference until Saturday.
<ev> Done: foundations-o-ubiquity, foundations-o-ubiquity-lvm-luks,
<ev> foundations-o-wubi, foundations-o-ubiquity-advanced-partitioner,
<ev> foundations-o-automated-ubiquity-testing have the appropriate workitems set
<ev> (may add one or two more).
<ev> Call with Rick to discuss 12.04 work.
<ev> Call with Patrick Wright to brain dump the ubiquity automated testing
<ev> infrastructure so that he might reimplement it in the datacenter.
<ev> Email to ubuntu-devel on measuring success/failure in the installation:
<ev> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-May/033194.html
<ev> Requested that the tech board look into it tomorrow (hi cjwatson ;)):
<ev> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000857.html
<ev> Raised the need for a proper crash database that doesn't block on Launchpad
<ev> for the implementation with Pete, Kate and pitti.
<ev> Started looking into kexec for Wubi and Linaro LAVA for QA.
<ev> Raised the need for a minimal session (akin to ubiquity-dm) for Bulletproof-X
<ev> did that actually work? Should end with "proposal."
<ev> (done)
<mvo> success/failure ++
<slangasek> "proposal"?
<mvo> I want that for upgrades as well, once ev did all the hard work to add the server and push it through :)
<cjwatson> mvo: once I reproduced it in qemu, I attached gdb and sat there dividing-and-conquering until I got down to a reasonable chunk of code, and then single-stepped it; no rocket science I'm afraid, just a slog
<ev> slangasek: ideas around an actual developer summit, rather than a contributor summit.  Targeted at 3rd party ISVs.  Think Mix or WWDC.
<mvo> cjwatson: anything in particular you needed to do in qemu to trigger it? for me in kvm it wouldn't actually reboot but go into memtest86+
<ev> More than that, obviously, but that was the big takeaway from the session
<mvo> cjwatson: even without rocket science, still pretty impressive work :)
<cjwatson> I'm not sure, I think I was partially just lucky
 * mvo likes the word slog
<slangasek> ev: ah, I think maybe the answer to '< ev> did that actually work? Should end with "proposal."' is 'no', because that didn't make any sense to me :)
<ev> oh, rubbish
<cjwatson> I usually try both kvm and qemu -no-kvm for this kind of thing
<ev> well then: http://paste.ubuntu.com/609561/
<ev> (done) ;)
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<mvo> thanks cjwatson, I will make a mental note for the future, I just tried kvm
<bdmurray> research into foundation's team packages, uds-o spec drafting, support team bug triage, arsenal testing and improvements
<slangasek> and stgraber:
<stgraber> Post-UDS drafting for a few specs, worked on/sponsored a few SRUs and upgraded to oneiric.
<stgraber> Also started working on an IPv6 test setup to simulate pretty much all cases of "working" IPv4 and IPv6 setup (static4, static6, dhcpv4, dhcpv6, radvd).
<stgraber> And for the last 10 minutes or so, have been looking at sssd 1.5.7 which seems easy to package except for a new non-packaged build-depends (ding-libs) making everything a lot harder ...
<stgraber> (done)
<mvo> btw, traditionally the  lightning report covered the previous week, should we keep this? this time of course it would have meant "uds" for most of us, so I mixed in bits of this week to make it more interessting.
<slangasek> stgraber: ah, quick, get 1.5.7 packaged and into universe ASAP so that whoever files the MIR has to deal with ding-libs instead of you
<slangasek> ;)
<cjwatson> I normally described Wednesday-afternoon through Wednesday-morning in my lightning round
<stgraber> slangasek: sounds like a good idea ;)
<barry> cjwatson: same here
<barry> very easy to calculate with gtimelog :)
<doko> bdmurray: just to know: how did you determine the "foundation's team packages"?
<slangasek> yeah, I was thinking of it the same way as cjwatson and barry
<stgraber> slangasek: there's a PPA with both ding and the new sssd here: https://launchpad.net/~fabricesp/+archive/experimental/+packages (in what looks like a pretty good state)
<mvo> ok, thats fine with me, I will just update my reporting
<slangasek> [TOPIC] UDS "debriefing"
<MootBot> New Topic:  UDS "debriefing"
<doko> dbriefing?
<bdmurray> doko: I've created a preliminary list that needs reviewing.  I looked at people.getSubscribedPackages()? in the lp api and looked at the -changes mailing list for L->O for things team members have uploaded (using the number of times uploaded).
<slangasek> on that note, I wonder if we should talk a bit about UDS, and what everyone's interesting/surprising takeaways were
<slangasek> or what you're excited about for this cycle
<slangasek> like python3 only on the CD for 11.10, right? :)
 * barry hits backspace
<ev> MEASUREMENT :)
 * slangasek gets out the bathroom scale
<ev> I found mpt's plenary very inspirational, and will push hard to implement as much of that as I can
<barry> lots of positive support for udd
<ev> hahaha
<barry> and bfbia
<ev> (or can encourage others to)
<mvo> community, community, community
<barry> delete wiki pages!
 * ScottK stares at barry.
<slangasek> funny thing
<mvo> (seriously, having face-to-face time with the contributors is so energizing)
<slangasek> I found several pages under help.u.c that I want to delete, but I don't have perms
<barry> ScottK: it's gonna be so awesome, you'll be totally convinced :)
 * ScottK waits for it to solve a problem he's actually having.
<ScottK> Note that the existing functionality does that in a very good way.
<barry> ScottK: so did my 20" crt :)
<slangasek> heh
<cjwatson> this may be vacuous, but the most interesting/surprising conversations for me were the ones I didn't expect to have
<cjwatson> suggesting once again that underscheduling is better than overscheduling
<mvo> ++ on that
<stgraber> +1
<cjwatson> I got a chance to go to quite a few server sessions, the occasional desktop session, and the odd completely random session, and I think that was helpful
<barry> agreed.  my only regret was not getting out to actually see much of budapest :/
<cjwatson> (it's been a while since I got a chance to tour around much)
<mvo> barry: I agree, I think we scheduled too much in the evenings this time
<ev> it was worse at the Canonical Summit
<slangasek> yes, I noticed some very good cross-pollination with Linaro in a few areas this time - in particular around debug symbols, gdbserver kinds of things
<cjwatson> yeah, though I find with going away every three months I lose my energy for tourism, anyway
<ev> You will stay in the building, you will sit in your assigned dinner seat.
<barry> ev: speaking of which, i think you're supposed to fill us all in on what happened at the some-hands
<cjwatson> (finally booked for Dublin; travelling by rail and ferry ++)
<cjwatson> (the trip across north Wales is gorgeous)
<ev> barry: *hand waves* eleventy billion users
<cjwatson> shortest summary EVAH
<ev> hahaha
<slangasek> we're going to run our users in VMs then?
<barry> our users are *in* the cloud
<ev> I'll sort that out of band; I have a notebook full of random scribbles and drawings of cats
<barry> or maybe they *are* the cloud
<cjwatson> barry: that solves our computational resource problem
<barry> mechanical turk? feh.
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] bitesize bug initiative
<MootBot> New Topic:  bitesize bug initiative
<slangasek> one more topic from me
<slangasek> speaking of community
<slangasek> there's a push from the community team this cycle to do a better job of hooking new contributors into Ubuntu
<slangasek> and they want EVERY engineering team to work on this
<slangasek> so what I'd like us to do is to
<slangasek> make a conscious effort to identify some easy bugs in the packages as we work on them, and set them aside with a 'bitesize' tag instead of fixing them ourselves
<cjwatson> do we have rough ideas on numerical targets for this?
<cjwatson> strikes me as one of those things where it's good to know when to push hard and when to stop, as it were
<slangasek> I'm sure everyone here can think of some bugs they've fixed that were bog-easy to solve... rather than solving them directly, let's use some of these as opportunities for mentoring
<slangasek> cjwatson: good question; no, no numerical target
<barry> slangasek: that should include patch review and sponsorship
<ev> I see this meshing quite well with the CLA.
<slangasek> we do need to be careful to not leave bugs out unfixed in release because we were waiting for someone to take the bait^W^W^W express interest
<ev> lol
<cjwatson> is there an LP mail header for "this bug has a patch attached"?
<barry> slangasek: who is going to connect community members to bitesize bugs or is it up to them to just search and find them?
<cjwatson> maybe I should just procmail-copy everything with /X-Launchpad-Bug-Tags: .*bitesize/ into my inbox
<cjwatson> (I'd like to avoid losing things in the bugmail storm, if we consider them important)
<bdmurray> cjwatson: no header for patches but they get tagged patch
<ScottK> ev: How so?  (bitesize bugs and CLA)
<slangasek> I think as long as launchpad is able to give us reports on the 'bitesize' tag for "our" packages, we should be able to round these up at the appropriate points in the cycle
<broder> bdmurray: that's a manual process, though, right?
<cjwatson> bdmurray: OK, so /X-Launchpad-Bug-Tags: .*bitesize/ && /X-Launchpad-Bug-Tags: .*patch/ or some such should at least alert me
<bdmurray> broder: no I have a script that tags all bugs with attachments flagged as patch with the tag patch
<broder> ah, ok
<slangasek> barry: not clear yet how we'll be connecting community members up with them - once there's an interesting set we can point people at, I'll certainly want to advertise on ubuntu-devel and maybe stick a note in the wiki page
<bdmurray> cjwatson: yes or the body has "patch added" when the attachment is actually added
<slangasek> this wiki page, I mean https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
<cjwatson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/609576/ <- how to get me to notice a bug
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/609576/ <- how to get me to notice a bug
<barry> slangasek: nod
<ev> ScottK: "why thank you for the one line patch random community member, now digest this volume of text and sign on the dotted line."
<ScottK> Right.  Of course.
<ScottK> Don't forget "Make sure you have permission from your employer if needed."
<slangasek> ev: hum, perhaps in the first iteration we should not combine bitesize bugs with a tough pill to swallow
<mvo> so no tagging for software-center :/
<cjwatson> at least we have quite a number of packages not subject to CLA
<ev> slangasek: so avoid CLA projects?
<ScottK> bitesize+paperwork
<cjwatson> papersize
<mvo> it would really help if we had a "CLA only required for a certain minimal amount of diff"
<ev> hahaha
<mvo> hahaha
<ScottK> papersize = paperwork takes longer than the fix to do.
<barry> mvo: that's the way the gpl copyright assignments work.  where "minimal amount of diff" is largely undefined, but somewhere in the 10-20 lines range (up to project maintainers to decide)
<barry> dunno if that counts cla, but certainly seems bitesize to me
<slangasek> ev, mvo: in the meantime, perhaps at a minimum we should have some standard text to stick in the description of such a bitesize bug pointing would-be contributors to the CLA?
<mvo> barry: its currently not, I aksed about this and the answer was that even one line patches needs the CLA signed
<barry> ouch
<slangasek> I think it's important to avoid having new contributors invest time in working out a fix for a bug, getting excited about having contributed, and then being slammed with paperwork
<stgraber> ouch
<mvo> slangasek: that sounds like a good idea, ensuring that people actually know they will have to do the paperwork
<mvo> if they decide to work on this
<ev> slangasek: might be a good way of measuring interest in fixing bugs in CLA non-CLA stuff
<ev> CLA vs non-CLA*
<barry> yeah, just don't tag cla stuff as bitesize then :/
 * slangasek nods
 * csurbhi1 nods
<bdmurray> do we have a list of cla packages?
<barry> bdmurray: excellent question
<ev> http://www.canonical.com/contributors
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.canonical.com/contributors
<slangasek> ev wins
<ev> yay, please send my prize to millbank
<maco> is there a way to see if we've signed the CLA in the past?
<barry> ev: your prize is that you don't have to sign the cla
<ev> yay!
<slangasek> :-)
<slangasek> ev: do you know the answer to maco's question?
<cjwatson> I do
<ScottK> Typically CLA only applies to 'upstream'.  You can patch in Ubuntu without having signed it.  Not that that helps much in most cases.
<cjwatson> I'm just trying to find the link
<slangasek> k
<cjwatson> maco: if you've signed it, you should be in https://launchpad.net/~contributor-agreement-canonical/+members
<maco> ScottK: what if "upstream" cherry picks the patch from the ubuntu source package?
<slangasek> ScottK: true - presumably the dev tagging the bug as 'bitesize' will know when doing so if it's a packaging vs. upstream bug
<ScottK> Their problem to make sure what they cherrypick is licensed appropriately for their project.
<ScottK> There's at least one case where code was dropped 'upstream' due to CLA problems and then immediately added back as a distro patch.
<ScottK> Later it was re-implemented and the disconnect went away.
<cjwatson> headdesk
<ScottK> That was the "Let's engage potential contributors by throwing their code away" school of recruitment.
<slangasek> yeah I am not a student of that school :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<bdmurray> \o
<slangasek> anything else folks would like to bring up, before we manage to run down the hour discussing copyright assignment? :)
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> so what's the best way to distribute the list of packages for the team that I've come up with for review?
<maco> who maintains that canonical.com/contributors page? it seems to be in need of alphabetising
<cjwatson> maco: launchpad.net/canonical-website I guess
<maco> k
<slangasek> bdmurray: there's a mailing list for the canonical team (which I need to get you added to); let me get that for you
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay thanks
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:56.
<mvo> thanks!
<psurbhi> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<slangasek> thanks, all :)
<ev> thanks
<stgraber> thanks
<cp> yes, can you read us?
<cp> I am new, and why is he using ustream's chat and not IRC?
<IdleOne> cp: why is who using ustream?
<cp> Jono doesn't seem to be looking in ubuntu-meeting channel, he is using the ustream chat.
<cp> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/at-home-with-jono-bacon
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-19
<NCommander> Morning all, who's around?
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra_> moop
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110519
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110519
 * NCommander pokes ogra_'s moop
<ogra_> ouch !
<ogra_> dont you touch my moop !
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-1.html
<NCommander> None of my specs are showing up ...
 * ogra_ isnt done yet with spec writing 
<NCommander> Oh right, it has to be approved, doesn't it
<NCommander> bah
<ogra_> NCommander, lets go over them to see if everything is set right (accepted etcd)
<ogra_> after meeting
 * davidm is happy bp are getting done
<ogra_> but its good to see the tracker work
<ogra_> doesnt look like as much hassle for me as last round
 * NCommander likes our '2.0' blueprints for A1 :-)
<NCommander> Right
<NCommander> so moving on
<NCommander> if my web browser didn't force quit ...
<NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
<ogra_> use an ac100, its more stable :P
<ogra_> i think we can drop that
<ogra_> desktop team takes over now
<ogra_> i talked to didrocks in budapest
<davidm> I think it's DX team and desktop team
<NCommander> cool
 * NCommander brings dead to this standing item
<ogra_> well, i think upstream is still the same
<ogra_> not DX afaik
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> NCommander, ppisati
<rsalveti> :-)
<ogra_> and we should probably include the linaro platform guys that work on kernel bits in that
<ogra_> do you have any ?
<rsalveti> send an SRU for bug 770679
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 770679 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu) "Missing proper support for Beagle XM rev B and C" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770679
<NCommander> rsalveti: won't that require an item respin of natty, no?
<rsalveti> still waiting for comments
<rsalveti> NCommander: in theory yes
<rsalveti> but we can just publish a new kernel file somewhere and update the wiki
<rsalveti> like we did with maverick
<ogra_> well, we can alsways provice replacement uInitrd and uImage
<rsalveti> yeah, that's what we did with maverick
<ogra_> right
<rsalveti> but no other update
<rsalveti> ti-omap4 kernel is kind of the same
<rsalveti> will be sending another SRU for the drm driver next week
<ogra_> do you have anyone in your team that should be included in the topic ping ?
<rsalveti> now that I got that sorted out with linaro kernel
<rsalveti> ogra_: that depends on what exactly we want to discuss
<ogra_> same for any other of the standing topics :)
<rsalveti> sure, we can solve this offline
<ogra_> yeah
<rsalveti> that's all for me
<ogra_> ppisati, everything fine in your world ?
<rsalveti> NCommander: put an action for you to include ppisati at this topic :-)
<NCommander> rsalveti: I already edited the wiki
<ogra_> well, seems he isnt around ... neither is cooloney
<ogra_> so move :)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<ogra_> its horrid
<NCommander> fpc was bootstrapped on armel but beside that not much to add as the buildds drain
<ogra_> yeah, will still need a while to lighten up
 * NCommander isn't going to touch it until the build queue is close to empty
<ogra_> i occasionally go over them and give back what looks like being worth it
<ppisati> ogra_: let me read...
 * ogra_ wonders where jani is 
<ogra_> still jetlagged from the 100km train ride probably :)
<GrueMaster> heh
<NCommander> ogra_: :-P
<NCommander> can I move on?
<ogra_> yeah
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> well ...
<ogra_> waiting for live-build to be implemented for x86
<ppisati> ah k :)
<ogra_> i guess then we have a very small window to make it work for A1
<ogra_> the risk is high that we wont make A1 though
<GrueMaster> Always is.
<NCommander> Yeah
<ogra_> in other news i worked the week on preparing everything for the ac100 image
<NCommander> right now all CD image work is depwait A1, though cjwatson said if we implement stuff in livecd-rootfs, then he'll migrate it to livehelper
<ogra_> the bits from https://launchpad.net/~ac100/+archive/ppa will land in oneiric next week
<ogra_> so that we can start rolling images
<ogra_> look, its a jani :)
 * NCommander throws a pokeball at wild janimo 
<janimo> sorry, forgot what time it was
<NCommander> :-P
<ogra_> well, thats all about images atm ... toboin ?
<ogra_> anything to say about nook ?
<ogra_> GrueMaster, ^^
<GrueMaster> Not yet.  Main focus has been on usbboot for panda.
<ogra_> yeah, thought so
<ogra_> though you had lots of converation going on about nook images in the channel :)
<GrueMaster> Although one user has gotten some work towards making it boot natty.
<ogra_> *conversation
<NCommander> can I move on?
<ogra_> go
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> Hey, that's me!
<ogra_> wohoo !
<GrueMaster> My focus this week has been gitting panda to boot via usb blob from a host system.
<ogra_> for automated image testing ;)
<janimo> GrueMaster, this means no SD card needed at all?
<ogra_> yeah
<GrueMaster> This will help a lot for the new buildd deployment, and also help to build an image automation framework.
<janimo> sweet
<GrueMaster> No SD card was harmed in the making of thisproduction.
<ogra_> lol
<janimo> some SD cards deserve to be harmed though
<ogra_> hehe
<GrueMaster> Currently I am hung on getting the usb & network ports initialized.  I have a working kernel & initrd.
<GrueMaster> Reviewing x-loader & u-boot code tosee what they do to enable them.
<ogra_> i'll get you the initrd bits until monday
<NCommander> GrueMaster: seems like a lot of it is hte board just isn't happy coming up OTG. could be an issue of whats being iniialized vs what isn't?
<GrueMaster> I'm using the headless image as a test base.   I have the rootfs on a USB drive andam pushing down the kernel with a modified initrd.
<GrueMaster> Yes.
<GrueMaster> Not sure if it is the otg port getting in the way,but it shouldn't as they are completely separate circuits.
<ogra_> NCommander, well, its the decision of putting half the board init code into x-loader and u-boot
<NCommander> well yes
<ogra_> if it would live in the kernel as it should, there wouldnt be any probs
<GrueMaster> btw:  u-boot doesn't appear to support usb.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, rsalveti is working on it
<GrueMaster> yes, I know.
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: u-boot supports usb now ;-)
<ogra_> and martyn told me yesterday that the PXE support patch landed upstream
<rsalveti> and TFTP
<GrueMaster> Hopefully we can work together today and get a solution.
<rsalveti> on my branch
<GrueMaster> Nice.
<rsalveti> but I still prefer to jump into the kernel directly
<ogra_> \o/
<ogra_> ++
<ogra_> but at least we have something even if that doesnt work
<rsalveti> anyway, just working with GrueMaster to see what we can get
<rsalveti> yup :-)
<GrueMaster> The aboot->kernel method is much cleaner, but what ever it takes to get forward progress is semi-acceptable.
<ogra_> the good thing is that we could even use it in the images and boot *way* faster
<rsalveti> let's spend some more time trying to get this to work
<ogra_> we should inspect that
<GrueMaster> once I get this working (critical priority), I'll focus on blueprint refinement and nook color.
<rsalveti> yeah, can add that at my u-boot tftp bp
<rsalveti> I'll be changing it to "alternatives to boot ubuntu images"
<rsalveti> something like that
<rsalveti> omap4boot
<ogra_> cool !
<rsalveti> u-boot with TFTP and PXE
<rsalveti> and u-boot with fastboot
<rsalveti> that should cover most of the cases, if not all
<GrueMaster> That's all from me.  Questions?
<ogra_> not here
<NCommander> [topic] Specification Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Status
<NCommander> probably a good idea to go over this
<NCommander> I have two spcs drafted, one reviewed, one I mostly completed then handed off, and one that still needs a writeup
 * ogra_ has nothing to report yet ... mine will be ready by monday
<ogra_> janimo, GrueMaster ?
<janimo> I have work items more or less written up on my specs
<janimo> but no other work. Drafting means filling up the wiki template?
<ogra_> (and anyone else having specs on the team tracker :) )
<ogra_> janimo, yeah
<GrueMaster> I think NCommander has been plastering me with work items.  I have been toofocused to check.
<janimo> team tracker == burndown charts?
<ogra_> you dont need all topics from the tamplate, only what makes sense in your context
<ogra_> yeah team tracker == burndown
<NCommander> [topic] ABO
<MootBot> New Topic:  ABO
 * NCommander has nothing
<GrueMaster> ABO???
<ogra_> ABO ?
<ogra_> OBA ?
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ogra_> BOA ?
<GrueMaster> BOA?
 * NCommander beats ogra_ 
<ogra_> BAOBAB
<GrueMaster> BAO?
<ogra_> BLAH :)
 * ogra_ doesnt have anything for this topic
<NCommander> I'm guessing we don't
<NCommander> closiging the meeting in 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:35.
<pitti> cjwatson, mdz, kees, Keybuk: TB meeting now?
<Keybuk> present
<kees> \o
<sabdfl> o/ ?
<sabdfl> ;-)
<kees> I have a hard-stop in 30 minutes, though
<Keybuk> who is chair today?
<kees> agenda says mdz
<pitti> sent SMS to mdz and cjwatson
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<sabdfl> should we just dive in?
<sabdfl> do we have anything like a quorum?
<pitti> four people should be enough?
<kees> yeah, we have 4
<sabdfl> ok, i'll take the chair, i'm somewhat overdue
<sabdfl> MootBot: #startmeeting
<sabdfl> sigh
<sabdfl> help
<pitti> without the mootbot: I think
<persia> Don't highlight MootBot when starting
<sabdfl> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:07. The chair is sabdfl.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> hi, I'm here now
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] Status of Lubuntu
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status of Lubuntu
<sabdfl> we had a session or two at UDS on this
<cjwatson> I think Lubuntu was adequately resolved at UDS, yes
<cjwatson> it is blocked on more disk on antimony + cdimage.ubuntu.com internal mirrors, but that is in train
<sabdfl> cjwatson: elmo says np to bigger disks on cdimage
<cjwatson> right
<cjwatson> blocked as in that-hasn't-happened-yet, not as in we-need-to-convince-people
<sabdfl> okdokey
<sabdfl> so, the status is it will be official as soon as we have the new space, and that's approved, just not actioned
<kees> sounds good to me
<cjwatson> https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=45727, for Canonical folks
<sabdfl> i'll document that in the meeting report, i don't think we need to announce anything till we actually have a release
<Keybuk> cool
<cjwatson> agreed - it'll be easy to turn on once we have headroom
<sabdfl> i'm sure the Lubuntu folks will take the opportunity to raise their banner
<sabdfl> ok, wrapped
<pitti> shoudl we follow up to Julien on the list?  or was that already resolved at UDS?
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] ffmpeg vs libav
<MootBot> New Topic:  ffmpeg vs libav
<sabdfl> pitti: i think it's resolved, but feel free to send him this snippet of IRC?
<pitti> sabdfl: sure
<cjwatson> pitti: yeah, Julien knows
<kees> so, it's not just Ubuntu -- Debian did the ffmpeg -> libav thing too, but that masks a bit that it's the same maintainer
<sabdfl> hmm.. why are we not listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams ?
<sabdfl> i was looking for the team report page
<cjwatson> good question
<sabdfl> ok, will find that later
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/TeamReports
<sabdfl> kees, so we are de-facto diverged from debian, for lack of consensus on this within ubuntu?
<pitti> would be intersting to hear siretart's side of the storey
<pitti> story
<cjwatson> libav is currently waiting in NEW IIRC
<cjwatson> not due to any particular archive admin animus that I'm aware of, but just post-oneiric-opening/UDS backlog
<cjwatson> oh, wait, I stand corrected
<cjwatson> libav is in oneiric
<cjwatson> so we are not at present diverged from Debian, except by an Ubuntu delta to the libav package
<cjwatson> which is small: http://patches.ubuntu.com/liba/libav/libav_4:0.7~b1-1ubuntu1.patch
<kees> libav is even in _natty_
<kees> and their versioning is charging ahead.
<sabdfl> is there any certainty that libav will be a more cohesive community?
<cjwatson> you're right, I must have been thinking of binary NEW
<sabdfl> for example, will they take a more dev-friendly approach to sonames?
<cjwatson> personally I'm extremely reluctant to take any view at all on this without hearing both sides - has anyone been in touch with Reinhard about this?
<cjwatson> libav has what looks like actual versions rather than datestamps
<kees> sabdfl: that's my question too. I don't feel like I have all the information I need to form an opinion
<cjwatson> oh, blah, so did our ffmpeg packages
<kees> cjwatson: I haven't heard from siretart
 * micahg is a little sore about breaking BC in the libavcodec52 to libavcodec53 transition, but idk what that's worth
<cjwatson> it's clear to me that there's a social split in the community, but I don't think we should be attempting to judge that
<sabdfl> is there an active thread on -tb? is this something that needs a private conversation, if it's about social dynamics that are already stressed upstream?
<pitti> no active thread AFAICS
<cjwatson> we should be taking a decision on technical merit, which probably to some extent needs to include the views of the developers willing to work on this in Debian/Ubuntu (although not necessarily be dominated by that)
<cjwatson> much of the impetus for the mail sent to us seems to be social
<pitti> realistically, if we'd decide for ffmpeg instead of libav, we'd need someone else to maintain it, though
<cjwatson> (though there is some technical content)
<kees> yeah, if the Debian and Ubuntu maintainer chose libav, that does carry a fair bit of weight
<cjwatson> micahg: BC?
<kees> binary compat
<micahg> cjwatson: backwards compatability
<kees> oh
<kees> heh. I thought you meant ABI
<cjwatson> in a sense stronger than what usually happens when you change soname?
<cjwatson> was it an API break as well?
<micahg> cjwatson: yes
<kees> owch
<cjwatson> ok, well - that does happen sometimes, I'm not sure that should be determining without details
<cjwatson> if we never allowed API breaks there wouldn't be much in the platform :-)
<kees> right
<kees> but to do it so "soon" after a fork makes things almost more painful.
<cjwatson> I'm feeling very low on facts here
<micahg> some of it was cleaning up namespaces
<cjwatson> can somebody take an action to catch up with siretart and get his side?
<kees> I'll take that
<cjwatson> sorry, I'm back-seat-chairing, I should stop that
<sabdfl> it's very helpful when it's helpful :-)
<sabdfl> [ACTION] kees, invite siretart to comment on TB list, or in private, as appropriate
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kees, invite siretart to comment on TB list, or in private, as appropriate
<cjwatson> I was about to say that we should have somebody with relevant expertise go off and produce an impartial report, but one might reasonably argue that that's the TB's job :-P
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] Follow up onÂ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/451390Â (mdz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Follow up onÂ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/451390Â (mdz)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 451390 in ubuntu-community "limited upload rights no longer give series nomination accept/decline rights" [Undecided,New]
<pitti> hm, fixed a week ago
<cjwatson> that bug is apparently closed in LP, but I have not got round to finding somebody with the right set of privileges to real-world-test it
<pitti> I can take that
<kees> cjwatson: we could maybe try bjf?
<pitti> we have plenty of non-core-devs in the desktop team
<kees> he was most recently added to ubuntu-drivers for the nominations purpose
<micahg> I tested it, I can now approve stuff in main that I can upload even though I"m MOTU
<kees> micahg: ah! even better, thanks!
<pitti> ah, good
<sabdfl> so, that's fix confirmed?
<pitti> so we can also close the community task then
<kees> we probably need another action to purge ubuntu-drivers of people that were added there as a work-around for this bug
<sabdfl> pitti: can you take care of that?
<pitti> sabdfl: no, because I already did it :)
<sabdfl> :-)
<sabdfl> it's that time machine of yours, pitti
<sabdfl> do we all have admin on ubuntu-drivers?
<sabdfl> do we know who was added just for that purpose?
<pitti> sabdfl: yes, TB owns it
<pitti> jasoncwarner is the latest member, I think that was done at UDS
<pitti> so that he could shuffle around the summit schedule
<sabdfl> i doubt that's for this case, though
<pitti> right
<pitti> it was for blueprint handling
<pitti> I only overheard it, though
<sabdfl> we could of course just purge -drivers and add those who notice :-)
<sabdfl> were all such additions documented in TB meetings, or ad-hoc?
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-drivers/+members doesn't look unreasonable, though
<pitti> pretty much the tech leads, and folks who should be able to approve/change blueprints
<sabdfl> josh hoover?
<kees> it's been ad-hoc, afaik. I have removed bjf, as he was one I added and documented in the nominations bug report
<pitti> sabdfl: U1 team uses ubuntu blueprints for their work
<sabdfl> ok, let's consider that done
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] Action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action review
<kees> I have to go now; I'll check backscroll when I'm back.
<sabdfl> cheers kees
<sabdfl> Action: rickspencer3 will bring up the state of unity on the -desktop list for public review and discussion
<sabdfl> done
<sabdfl> I asked for a review between TB and DX and Desktop on Natty/Unity at UDS, but failed to get to it myself.
<sabdfl> I saw good dialogue between DX and Platform-Desktop about how to improve processed for Oneiric
<sabdfl> but figured TB would have useful commentary and critique
<sabdfl> did anyone here get to that session?
<pitti> not me unfortunately
<pitti> oh, except if that was the session where everyone brought up their pet bugs
<pitti> (and praises)
<pitti> I was in that one
<sabdfl> no, i think that was the Unity design review
<pitti> right
<sabdfl> from a governance point of view, i thought the debate / discussion about unity-by-default was healthy
<pitti> on -devel@? I agree
<sabdfl> however, i think it flagged a lack of clarity on responsibilities and delegation
<cjwatson> I think I was in that session - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/community-o-natty-retrospective/
<sabdfl> from my perspective, TB is on the hook for technical decisions, the health of the developer community, quality, across the whole archive
<pitti> ah, now I remember, thanks cjwatson for the link
<cjwatson> there was a lot of discussion about when people felt it appropriate to involve the TB in things, and some fairly obvious disconnect
<sabdfl> i think the TB could rightly have provided guidance and critique on freezes, testing, dependencies, delivery
<cjwatson> also discussion about the role of the TB versus the release team
<sabdfl> i think teh release and desktop teams, however, need to feel they have a mandate too
<cjwatson> I think I view the release team as sort of the "ordinary" authority on these matters, and the TB is an appeals/escalation body as well as sort of wider policy setting
<sabdfl> right
<ScottK> I was in the session and expressed views similar to cjwatson
<pitti> that mainly clarified the status quo of reactive "where the buck stops" dispute resolution (TB) vs. "day-to-day exception processing and archive consistency" (release)
<sabdfl> i felt we undermined the desktop team a little by leaving the scope of the conversation so wide
<cjwatson> in my view the unity-by-default debate should probably have involved the release team more than it did, but at the time, bouncing things around between groups would have been unnecessary bureaucracy
<cjwatson> given the short timescales involvd
<sabdfl> i hoped the natty retro would give the TB an opportunity to set tighter guidelines on things which define the quality of the release, while also strengthening the desktop teams ability to make in/out calls
<pitti> TBH the discussion about unity or not wasn't really a good release team matter anyway, as this is was a major project-wide decision
<sabdfl> right - we'll likely only ever see micro-versions of that debate in future
<cjwatson> we talked about the way the TB is quite reactive, and I mentioned that a while back we started trying to deal with something proactively every now and again, but it kind of fizzled out
<sabdfl> and those are unlikely to get kicked up
<cjwatson> somebody suggested having a secretary to the TB whose job it is to keep track of the kinds of things we ought to be discussing, which I think is a great idea
<cjwatson> was that ScottK?
<ScottK> That was me.
<sabdfl> i think it would help if we had non-Canonical representation in the desktop team
<sabdfl> however, such folk will certainly feel pressure, possibly unfairly, from all quarters
<cjwatson> I'm slightly cautious of fighting the last war (if you'll excuse the martial metaphor)
<cjwatson> the next debate of this king may not be anything to do with the desktop
<cjwatson> *kind
<sabdfl> right, but the underlying principle should hold
<pitti> *cough* systemd *cough*
<persia> Encouraging teams to consist of members from several viewpoints is likely useful regardless of the conflict.
<sabdfl> well, that one may well be for the TB, as it's hardly desktop OR Server OR kubuntu OR ...
<pitti> (as a totally random example of what might come up as a similar discussion)
<sabdfl> but is there any difference of opinion about the TB as guardian of quality, of talent and code, delegating decisions like in/out app selections to teams like -desktop?
<ScottK> Also for technical dispute resolution.
<sabdfl> that too
<cjwatson> sabdfl: I don't think anyone is of the opinion that the TB should be micromanaging day-to-day (or even month-to-month) decisions
<sabdfl> Keybuk: as a non-Canonical voice, what say you?
<persia> For consistency with the ReleaseManifests, I'd prefer if the TB delegated those decisions to the Product Managers, but in practice, it's nearly the same thing.
<cjwatson> which is good because I don't think we could if we wanted to :-)
<Keybuk> sabdfl: I think as long as things are discussed in Ubuntu forums, it's ok
<Keybuk> e.g. UDS is a great place to have those kinds of technical discussions
<Keybuk> likewise the Ubuntu mailing lists
 * pitti has some difficulty with answering that question about the unity example, as the desktop team (and me) was quite biased
<sabdfl> agreed
 * ScottK died a little inside when Keybuk said "Ubuntu forums" as a place for technical discussions.  Thanks for clarifying.
<Keybuk> I think we only have a problem if technical decisions for Ubuntu are made entirely within Canonical, and that's an appropriate juncture for the TB to step in, at least if only to bring the community back into the mix
<Keybuk> ScottK: the lowercase "f" was deliberate
<sabdfl> the English sense of "forum" :-)
<cjwatson> Ubuntu fora, to distinguish ;-)
 * cjwatson hides
<sabdfl> the Latin sense of fora :-)
<sabdfl> alright
<sabdfl> let's stop buggering around
<Keybuk> cjwatson: fora, forii or foruum?
 * ScottK knew, but it was too funny to leave there.
<sabdfl> Action: mdz to attach missing patches for debian bugs 151820 308832 35325 and 326677
<ubottu> Debian bug 151820 in dhcp3-client "dhcp3-client: Does not send hostname to server by default" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/151820
<Keybuk> pitti: I think there will always be bias, humans are biased things
<Keybuk> but another word for bias is passion ;-)
<pitti> from my POV, the TB was quite the right place to resolve that question of "unity by default", modulo sabdfl decision
<pitti> Keybuk: that's what I really meant, I guess
<Keybuk> and I think if one person is particularly passionate about something, and the opposing side can't drum up equivalent amounts of passion to debate
<Keybuk> then meh, passion wins :)
<pitti> and I can't really claim that I have always been 100% objective in my appraisals for unity by default
<cjwatson> the second and third of those Debian bugs have been dealt with
<cjwatson> or at least in progress
<cjwatson> I don't see action on the first and fourth, though I know mdz is tracking this as part of DEX and perhaps we don't need to track it hre
<pitti> Keybuk: fair enough
<cjwatson> but how about we leave it on the list 'til mdz's next here to answer
 * Keybuk has to run in a minute
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] Mailing items outstanding
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mailing items outstanding
<cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000857.html is the biggest one
<Keybuk> there's the item from Evan, but since neither Evan or Steve are here to debate it, we should probably defer
<cjwatson> I don't know if we can do it justice in ten minutes, anyway
<cjwatson> let's apologise and properly agenda-ify it for next time, maybe?
<sabdfl> this is brand new, isn't it?
<sabdfl> yes
<cjwatson> it is
<sabdfl> ok, we should give it some email air
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] Community bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Community bugs
<sabdfl> anything of note?
<cjwatson> mdz has assigned https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/252368 to us
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 252368 in Launchpad itself "Automatically associate DD and DM accounts with GPG keys in keyring packages" [Low,Triaged]
<cjwatson> (the other one is old)
<sabdfl> sounds like something for the stakeholders meeting, or a call-for-a-patch
<cjwatson> but I'm not clear what he wants to discuss there - it seemed to me that Debian had already offered some suggestions and it was just that it wasn't easy to do in LP?
<sabdfl> sounds entirely scriptable with LP's API
<pitti> the "if" is (hopefully?) not much of a debate, or does anyone think this shouldn't be done for some reason?
<sabdfl> iirc, this was something we wanted to do at the start, so no debate here
<pitti> so, "Triaged"?
<sabdfl> does it being assigned to us mean we need to do something beyond raise it on the stakeholders discussion with LP?
<sabdfl> sure
<micahg> just to clarify, this is only for e-mail access and not soyuz, right?
<pitti> that's how I understand it; for actions in emails to be effective you need to gpg sign
<pitti> like " status fixcommitted"
<persia> Unless someone does something special, it would work for soyuz as well (but is unrelated to upload rights to Ubuntu: initially affects Soyuz through PPAs)
<sabdfl> ok. i think that's a wrap
<sabdfl> next meeting? and chair?
<cjwatson> I have one AOB
<cjwatson> just briefly?
<sabdfl> go ahead of course
<cjwatson> somebody (I forget who, sorry) asked me at UDS about the status of appointing an Ubuntu community representative on the Launchpad stakeholders meeting
<cjwatson> I remembered that we discussed it but couldn't remember how far we got
<sabdfl> elected by the non-Canonical contributors to LP? ;-)
<cjwatson> does anyone remember the status, or shall I put it on the agenda for next time?
<cjwatson> no, somebody to put forward the interests of the Ubuntu community as opposed to Ubuntu Platform Engineering
<pitti> I think we discussed something like this in Orlando, but back then it wasn't "non-Canonical"
<persia> I don't remember getting any feedback to my mail to the TB from some time back: I asked for the TB to appoint someone, without restrictions on the person the TB selected.
<sabdfl> i'm sure Francis would be happy to entertain it
<pitti> just "someone who is credibly speaking for the ubuntu community"
<cjwatson> sabdfl: yes, he was, and we discussed it in the TB
<cjwatson> what I have no idea about, stateless automaton that I am, is how far we got :-)
<cjwatson> how about I do some homework on it and follow up next time, then
<sabdfl> i was only partly joking about picking from the pool of contributors
<pitti> a year ago we had three candidates on the table, IIRC
<sabdfl> some familiarity with processes, scale, pace of change, complexity would be helpful if that person wants real influence
<pitti> Keybuk, bryce, sladen were proposed back then
<persia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-November/000571.html
<sabdfl> bryce has certainly climbed in with both feet
<pitti> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-November/000571.html
<pitti> ah
<sabdfl> i'd be +1 bryce
<cjwatson> anyway, I realise we're out of time, so I'll chase down the discussions I'm sure I remember beyond that mail
<persia> It's probably worth reconfirming with the nominees that they would still be willing to serve.  I haven't spoken to any of them about it in ~6 months.
<sabdfl> persia, will you chat to bryce about it?
<sabdfl> next meeting is...
<persia> Sure.  I can re-canvass, and send another mail.
<sabdfl> and chair... mdz?
<cjwatson> seems like his turn
<sabdfl> anyone know the date?
<sabdfl> then we can wrap :-)
<persia> 2nd June (UTC)?
<sabdfl> ok, done. thank you all!
<sabdfl> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:02.
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<cjwatson> cheers
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-20
<cyphermox> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:00. The chair is cyphermox.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cyphermox> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the Americas meeting for May 19, 2011. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<cyphermox> Mobidoy: perspectoff, jbicha, philipballew_ ?
<cyphermox> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<Mobidoy> Present
<philipballew_> here
<cyphermox> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<jbicha> howdy
<cyphermox> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<cyphermox> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<cyphermox> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<cyphermox> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<cyphermox> I think matthewrohaly is still not around, so perhaps we can skip to the next applicant immediately
<cyphermox> [TOPIC] Membership application for Paul Perspectoff
<MootBot> New Topic:  Membership application for Paul Perspectoff
<cyphermox> perspectoff: care to introduce yourself?
<IdleOne> cyphermox: he has been idle 1:15 min.
<cyphermox> yeah, I guess we'll skip and get back to him if he shows up
<perspectoff> i'm a community user
<IdleOne> ah
<perspectoff> i wrote kubuntuguide and ubuntuguide, two wikis for new and established users
<perspectoff> i work to bring open source electronic medical records to ubuntu
<perspectoff> and integrate other groupware
<perspectoff> i wrote instructions for installing DaviCal, Moodle, and some other software on ubuntu
<perspectoff> frequent flyer on kubuntu forums and ubuntu forums
<pleia2> perspectoff: I notice you do a lot of work with these guide websites, how much involvement have you had with the official docs team? (whether on the ubuntu docs, or the help.ubuntu.com/community/ pages)
<perspectoff> 'bout it
<jbicha> ah, http://ubuntuguide.org/ has been useful!
<maco> you're still running gutsy?
<perspectoff> other than porting my wiki pages to the community wiki, i haven't been involved with the official docs team
<perspectoff> although i see some resemblances
<nhandler> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/perspectoff and https://launchpad.net/~perspectoff
<perspectoff> heh, heh. I have a gutsy for LinuxMCE (home automation). I rewrote the LinuxMCE wiki
<perspectoff> but i have a Hardy, Lucid, Maverick, Natty in Ubuntu, kubuntu, and now Lubuntu
<nhandler> perspectoff: Any LoCo work?
<cyphermox> jbicha: thanks for chiming in, looking at the websites I was getting a little worried for not seeing involvement from others into writing the articles there, and couldn't find so many links to the sites... maybe it's unrelated, but i found it a little unusual
<perspectoff> haven't -- this is my first foray. I've had a specialised focus. i am a practicing surgeon, after all.
<jbicha> I've not used the sites recently, they've been around a few years but were useful then
<cyphermox> cool
<jbicha> perspectoff: the site's been around since 2007?
<perspectoff> kubuntuguide has.
<perspectoff> ubuntuguide since 2005
<Mobidoy> I have also used htt://ubuntuguide.org/ in my learning process
<maco> i had no idea it was still around
<perspectoff> i actually don't have server control at ubuntuguide since it is hosted at the University of Latvia and I'm in California
<perspectoff> i offered matthew east to co-oridnate the Kubuntu wiki, but that didn't progress
<maco> perspectoff: got any involvement with your local community team?
<perspectoff> nope
<IdleOne> <perspectoff> haven't -- this is my first foray. I've had a specialised focus. i am a practicing surgeon, after all.
<perspectoff> again, i'm more focused on medical stuff. i've been a member of a US certifying commission for electronic medical recordas
<cyphermox> thx IdleOne
<maco> oh i see, missed what question that went with
<perspectoff> i've been interested in making sure technical packages can run in ubuntu --
<perspectoff> but more from the end user standpoint
<cyphermox> I think we'd be about ready to vote
<pleia2> perspectoff: I'd really like to see some involvement with the docs team (they need volunteers :)) and testimonials from folks you work with
<perspectoff> np -- you might notice that kubuntuguide is linked from every page of the Kubuntu wiki (at least when it was separate from the ubuntu wiki)
<perspectoff> the current kubuntu wiki is often the ubuntu wiki with a kubuntu banner at the top
<pleia2> I would highly suggest working harder to get it integrated, DarkwingDuck is now the kubuntu docs lead and he's very active
<cyphermox> I'll have to agree with pleia2, it's solid work and involvement from someone who is clearly very busy with things outside Ubuntu, but I'd like to see more involvement with others in the community.
<perspectoff> cheers
<pleia2> and very friendly, and in california! :)
<pleia2> (not sure where you are, he's in san diego, I'm up in the bay area)
<perspectoff> cool -- sacramento area, moving to san jose for me
<pleia2> cool, our next applicant is doing some ubuntu hours up in sacramento
<pleia2> perspectoff: mind if we ask you to get a bit more involved with the community, get some testimonials and come back in a few months?
<perspectoff> right
<pleia2> thanks, great work so far :)
<IdleOne> perspectoff: The work you have done is awesome. keep it up!
<perspectoff> i'll see where I can go with DarkwingDuck. Tx.
<cyphermox> perspectoff: thanks for the great work, please keep it up
<cyphermox> Let's move on to the next applicant.
<cyphermox> [TOPIC] Membership application for Philip Ballew (philipballew_)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Membership application for Philip Ballew (philipballew_)
<philipballew_> hello
<cyphermox> hi philipballew_ :)
<cyphermox> philipballew_: please introduce yourself :)
<philipballew_> Hi, I am philip and I see becoming a Ubuntu member as the next step with what I do with my computer. I have been using Ubuntu for years and Involved with the Ubuntu community for about two. I started getting more involved in the last year and a half or so when I stared distrusting CD's and things of the sort. I live in Auburn California (feel free to get excited if you know where that is). I distribute Ubuntu here,
<philipballew_>  but more importantly start a Ubuntu Hour here. I co-started the Ubuntu hour still active in san diego and continuing to grow and take off. I plan all the logisticts of the meeting and    make it a real event for Ubuntu users in the area. Its gonna be a good ride that I plan riding for as long as it lasts.
<cyphermox> oops :D
<philipballew_> :)
<philipballew_> wiki = https://wiki.ubuntu.com/philipballew
<nhandler> philipballew_: I see you are a bug squad member. How is the triage work coming along?
<nhandler> Cool
<philipballew_> seemes to be going well!
<philipballew_> i dont do much of that though
<philipballew_> but its what i do when neede3d to or asked
<philipballew_> *needed
<pleia2> plans to get more involved with it? I know the bug squad is always looking for more people to be actively involved
<nhandler> philipballew_: What have you done with the marketing team?
<philipballew_> With them i will input when nessessery. that is not my main area of focus. My main ares is promoting Ubuntu. However i sit in on their IRC and say something whenever nessessery
<philipballew_> i aslo do xubuntu
<philipballew_> and lubuntu
<philipballew_> and ubuntu server
<cyphermox> philipballew_: do you have a timeline for starting your new Ubuntu Hour in Auburn?
<philipballew_> its going to be in sacramento, maybe roseville. but if i can get some people comming, then in the next 3 weeks?
<cyphermox> ah, sorry ;)
<pleia2> (it's all the same up there;D)
<philipballew_> i was going to send out an invite this week and see peoples responses.
<philipballew_> pleia2 :) funny one!
<philipballew_> however if in a town of 12 thousand we can get a group together, im down for a auburn ubuntu hour
<cyphermox> don't hesitate, even if only one person shows up it's stilll a success
<cyphermox> I think we're ready to vote?
<philipballew_> that is true. ther is an oriccle, an hp and an intel plant around here so people will come
<nhandler> Yep
<cyphermox> [VOTE] For philipballew_ to join Ubuntu Members
<MootBot> Please vote on:  For philipballew_ to join Ubuntu Members.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nhandler> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<Pendulum> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Pendulum. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cyphermox> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cyphermox. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cyphermox> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<nhandler> Congratulations philipballew_
<IdleOne> congrats philipballew_ !!!
<cyphermox> unless I missed any required votes? :D
<cyphermox> Congrats philipballew_, nice work.
<Mobidoy> Congratulation philipballew_
<philipballew_> hey! thanks!!!
<philipballew_> what do i do now?
<cyphermox> philipballew_: please keep the involvement with other teams, e.g. approaching the marketing team and others
<pleia2> and bugsquad!
<cyphermox> yes!
<pleia2> 25000 untouched bugs won't triage themselves :)
<philipballew_> alright. anything specific with bugsquad?
<nhandler> philipballew_: If you have a blog, you can add it to the planet
<hggdh> please, yes, bugsquad :-)
<cyphermox> I'm always happy with more people triaging the heaps of NetworkManager bugs, if you're looking for stuff ;)
<cyphermox> [TOPIC] Membership application for Jeremy Bicha (jbicha)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Membership application for Jeremy Bicha (jbicha)
<jbicha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeremyBicha
<jbicha> Hi, I started with Linux in 2006 as Dapper was released. There were some bumps along the way but I found Ubuntu to be a far more interesting
<jbicha> environment than Windows. I started reporting & triaging bugs. Eventually I figured out how to fix some of the bugs myself & submit packaging fixes
<jbicha> with UDD. Recently, I've been accepted into the Ubuntu Docs committers team and I'm also helping the Desktop team with the Gnome 3 transition.
<cyphermox> jbicha: hey, I remember you from somewhere ;)
<jbicha> cyphermox: good evening :-)
<cyphermox> jbicha, what's your involvement on the community side, with your LoCo and other teams unrelated to development?
<pleia2> jbicha: congrats on joining core-doc :)
<maco> jbicha: coming to TOI on saturday?
<nhandler> Yep. Very nice indeed
<cyphermox> nice!
<jbicha> in Bahrain for several years, I was active with the LUG, here in DC/MD, I've been not-quite-as-active with the DC & MD teams
<nhandler> jbicha: Any plans to become a motu or per-package-uploader in the future?
<jbicha> maco: not sure yet whether I'll be able to make it
<maco> jbicha: oh, Pendulum will be there
<Pendulum> jbicha: you should. I'm making a guest appearance! ;-)
<jbicha> Pendulum: ok, well in that case...I think I'll be there :-)
<jbicha> nhandler: yes, I'd like to eventually get upload rights, I only have basic programming skills so that
<jbicha> seemed like something beyond my abilities, but the desktop packaging work is boosting my confidence & experience
<nhandler> jbicha: That is fine. You can fix a LOT of bugs and do a lot of packaging work without having to program
<pleia2> don't let that be a limiting factor, I'm a lousy programmer but packaging is fine (and always lots of people around to help!)
<maco> jbicha: there are a handful of core devs who lack programming skills
<jbicha> ok, well yes I'd definitely like to build up my "resume" to be a core-dev or motu
<cyphermox> We can vote now unless board members have further questions?
<maco> yep
<cyphermox> [VOTE] jbicha to join Ubuntu Members
<MootBot> Please vote on:  jbicha to join Ubuntu Members.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cyphermox> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cyphermox. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Pendulum> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Pendulum. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<maco> jbicha: (there's also per-package-uploader or the ubuntu-desktop packageset if you dont feel ready for something as broad as motu)
<IdleOne> congrats jbicha !!!
<jbicha> ok, working on the desktop stuff is plenty for now :-)
<cyphermox> indeed, or even contributing developer which you could have asked for already, and probably have been accepted -- it's essentially the same as ubuntu member
<cyphermox> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<Mobidoy> Congratulation jbicha
<cyphermox> congrats jbicha!
<nhandler> Congratulations jbicha
<Pendulum> congrats and welcome jbicha!
<cyphermox> There's just enough time left (I guess) for the last applicant.
<cyphermox> [TOPIC] Membership application for Christian Parent (Mobidoy)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Membership application for Christian Parent (Mobidoy)
<cyphermox> Mobidoy: please introduce yourself for the others :)
<Mobidoy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mobidoy and https://launchpad.net/~mobidoy
<Mobidoy> Hello. I am an active member of the Quebec Loco team. I am almost always on the #ubuntu-qc channel to help others. I am also active on our mailing list. I participate twice a week to Ubuntu Hours, one in Outremont and the other one in Longueuil. The latest is help in a coffee close to a college so, I try to be there early (noon) and stay until 8pm so that I can be seen by as much students as possible. I am also present in local Ubuntu events
<Mobidoy>  ie: spent 2 days at the Ubuntu table at Montreal geek fest. I try to be at all of those events. I also promote Ubuntu and opensource/free software (like OpenErp) to local companies, helping them make the transition, teaching them how to use it, setting up their servers and, maintaining it and all that at no charge.
<Mobidoy> I am helping with software but mostly hardware issues of our community members. I am following 2 Ubuntu online courses, reading for the LPIC 101 & 102 tests and, learning python thru http://siteduzero.com so I can start give a hand with bugs.
<IdleOne> May I?
<cyphermox> certainly
<IdleOne> Hello folks! I am here to support my friend Mobidoy for Ubuntu membership. This guy is just a ball of Ubuntu, so much so that he is willing to pick you up at your house and drive you to Ubuntu Hour (remember you are picking me up tomorrow) I 100% +1
<cyphermox> since Mobidoy I tend to get free coffee, this is so cool ;)
<Mobidoy> lol and free rides also cyphermox
<Mobidoy> thanx IdleOne
<nhandler> Mobidoy: Are you involved with any other teams besides the loco team?
<cyphermox> I had great help at e.g. the Longueuil Ubuntu Hour and the GeekfestMtl table, much appreciated
<Mobidoy> not yet, but I plan to as soon as my coding skill improve
<cyphermox> Mobidoy: don't wait, just dive in. you can learn as you fight to understand things :)
<Mobidoy> sure, and I can also have great support with you and deuxpi
<cyphermox> Let's see, any plans to get more involved with the Ubuntu Canada team, since they're our close friends ?
<Mobidoy> I have asked for membership already, I have also assist to my first meeting on the IRC 2 days ago
<Mobidoy> I am also talking about taking my Ubuntu Hour friends to other Ubuntu Hours starting with Ottawa
<cyphermox> [VOTE] Mobidoy to join Ubuntu Members
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Mobidoy to join Ubuntu Members.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Pendulum> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Pendulum. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nhandler> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cyphermox> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cyphermox. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cyphermox> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<IdleOne> Woohooo Mobidoy Congratulations!!!
<Pendulum> Mobidoy: congrats!
<nhandler> Congratulations
<Mobidoy> Thank you all :-)
<cyphermox> congrats Mobidoy, keep up the good work!
<cyphermox> and please get involved in other areas, or I will personally make sure you do ;)
<Mobidoy> I will :)
<pleia2> great :)
<cyphermox> I guess that's it for the Americas board. Thanks all!
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 20:04.
<jbicha> thanks again
<Mobidoy> Thanx to you all
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-14
<ljhnium> hi
<jdstrand> hi!
<jjohansen> \o
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 14 18:06:11 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Julian Taylor (jtaylor) provided debdiffs for lucid-precise for wicd (LP: #979221) (LP: #992177) and provided debdiffs for lucid-oneiric for gajim (LP: #992618) (LP: #992613)
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> I am focusing on post-UDS catch-up and review
<jdstrand> and then will get back to my assigned updates
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm doing community this week
<mdeslaur> and I need to go through the blueprints and create proper work items, etc.
<mdeslaur> after that, I plan on tackling my open CVEs
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on triage this week
<sbeattie> I'm also recovering/catching up on UDS stuff.
<sbeattie> After that, I'm working on my assigned CVEs.
<sbeattie> that's it for me, micahg?
<micahg> I'm focusing on thunderbird/apparmor regressions and then post UDS catchup
<micahg> I think that's it
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> I can't think of much post UDS catchup I need to do, but I suppose I'll have some since everyone else does :)
<tyhicks> I'm working on updating pidgin for a stack of CVEs
<tyhicks> I'm done backporting and should be moving onto the testing stage shortly
<tyhicks> While at UDS and while traveling for UDS, I have quickly fixed a few eCryptfs bugs. I plan on turning those fixes into upstreamable patches this week.
<tyhicks> That's about it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: You're up
<jjohansen> I have some kernel crashes related to apparmor in the Q kernel and lxc to finish up with. Then I need to get out a pull request for 3.5 as the merge window is opening soon.
<jjohansen> After that it will be UDS recovering/catch up
<tyhicks> Oh... getting ready for the 3.5 merge window will be on my todo list, too
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ksh.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/qmail.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/foomatic-gui.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mapserver.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/etherape.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> There are a lot of merge opportunities for packages listed in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/. Performing these updates is a great way to help Ubuntu and bolster your developer application.
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 14 18:23:18 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-14-18.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-14-18.06.html
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<tyhicks> thanks jdstrand
<jjohansen> thank jdstrand
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<kangarooo> yo?
 * pitti waves good evening
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> pitti: had a good trip back home?
<pitti> "uneventful", so I guess that qualifies as "yes" :)
<pitti> I even could sleep for some hours
<pitti> how about you?
<stgraber> surprisingly uneventful, pretty much never had to wait from the time we left the airport to when we got back home
<stgraber> soren: around?
<pitti> back in 3 mins
<pitti> cjwatson, kees: here?
<pitti> nothing on the agenda except for brain storm review, but there's some stuff on the ML
<stgraber> right, we have mythbuntu's release plan there and some more stuff about using tmpfs for /tmp
<pitti> and the postfix MRE
 * pitti replies on the ML on some things
 * lamont supports the postfix MRE
<pitti> so, that sounds like a "good night" to me then
<pitti> two people is hardly quorum, let's use the ML for the pending stuff, shall we?
<stgraber> sounds good
<stgraber> I also +1ed the postifx MRE there
 * pitti waves good night then
<soren> Err..
<soren> The wiki very clearly states the meeting time as 2100 UTC.
<DJones> soren: Which meeting?
<soren> Technical Board.
<DJones> I guess there;s still 30 minutes until then
<cjwatson> sorry, I forgot about this but am on holiday
<cjwatson> I'll make it if I can but I have childminding to do
<cjwatson> and I think I agree that the outstanding business is probably best conducted on the list
<soren> Yeah, it's not exactly the thrilling agenda (again).
<mdz> soren, TB is in 5 minutes, right? (double checking the time)
<MrChrisDruif> mdz; yup
<MrChrisDruif> According to the Fridge calendar that is
 * kees hopes so, and is here
<soren> mdz: Well, pitti and stgraber had a mini-meeting 55 minutes ago. cjwatson and I half agreed 25 minutes ago that we might just do it over e-mail.
<mdz> there's been confusion over the time for the past 3-4 meetings :-/
<mdz> soren, gah
<soren> mdz: Yes. I'm not sure why.
<kees> wiki says 2100!
<mdz> last time the wiki was most correct
<soren> mdz: The wiki is quite clear (and seems to agree with the Fridge)
<mdz> so i followed the wiki this time
<mdz> yeah, and it says 2100 UTC, i.e. 5m from now
<mdz> the Google calendar used to disagree with them, but even that's fixed now
<stgraber> for some reason my phone seems to disagree, I guess I'll need to check why it didn't sync with the fridge
<stgraber> anyway, I'm around if people want a meeting but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot to discuss
<mdz> there are one or two things on the mailing list
 * soren decrees that we'll defer to the mailing list
 * kees seconds.
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-15
<zul> so lets get this started
<zul> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 15 16:00:34 2012 UTC.  The chair is zul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<zul> so hi, i hope everyone has recovered from uds with their livers mostly intact
<utlemming> meh
<Daviey> o/
<zul> utlemming: i know you havent
<arosales> hello
<zul> #stubtopic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<zul> #subtopic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage> o/
<zul> so there isnt an topics from the previous meeting lets get right to it
<m_3> o/
<zul> #topic  Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Quantal Development
<zul> so last week was uds, and people should be getting their blueprints ready
<zul> this includes their work items for the blueprints as well
<jamespage> +1
<arosales> also note that we'll be trying the new template version
<jamespage> \o/
<zul> if you have never written a blueprint before you can ask for help as well
<jamespage> do we have the bzr/whiteboard integration working yet - maybe smoser or Ursinha` might know?
<s3h> sigh
<roaksoax> o/
<SpamapS> o/
<smoser> jamespage, Ursinha` and i talked a lot, but did not come to any real conclusion.
<jamespage> OK - suggest folk try out the template without a versioned whiteboard for the time being - we can swap over later.
<Daviey> sounds good
<s3h> where do we find the new template again?
<zul> jamespage: can you send an email to ubuntu-server with the new template stuff?
<roaksoax> +1
<jamespage> zul: ack - please action me for that
<zul> #action jamespage to send out an email to ubuntu-server about the new template
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to send out an email to ubuntu-server about the new template
<arosales> also it looks like we may need to update http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html for Quantal
<Daviey> ^^ action me
<arosales> or is that just the header text that needs updated from Precise?
<Daviey> nah, needs a change.
<zul> #action  daviey update release bugs for quantal
<meetingology> ACTION: daviey update release bugs for quantal
<zul> so looking at http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<zul> there is possibly a good one or two SRU bugs that are good candidates for SRU of course they need to be fixed in quantal first
<Daviey> zul: How functional is the SRU tracker?
<zul> the one that jumps out at me is #880339
<Daviey> bug 880339
<zul> Daviey: havent touched it in a long time
<zul> it should be ressurected though
<jamespage> +1
<zul> does someone want to take that action?
<zul> if i show them again where everything is and clear out the database and possibly update it for precise
<arosales> zul: I can give that a try
<jamespage> zul: give it to me - kinda forms part of my holistic review of triage etc.. anyway
<zul> oooh...deathmatch
<zul> i though Ursinha` did something with it
<roaksoax> jamespage: and now that you mention it, where should we be trackingnew bugs from now on?
<arosales> zul ping jamespage and I offline
<arosales> I would be interested in knowing how it works even if jamespage takes the full action
<jamespage> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/triage-report.html
<zul> #action zul talk to arosales and jamespage offline about SRU tracker
<meetingology> ACTION: zul talk to arosales and jamespage offline about SRU tracker
<jamespage> for the time being at least
<zul> anything else to bring up?
<roaksoax> jamespage: thanks
<zul> jamespage/arosales/Daviey: is there anything im missing
<arosales> for Quantal I think that is it for now
<zul> cool beans
<jamespage> I don't think so - blueprints and then merges!
<Daviey> zul: how long do we have? :)
<zul> Daviey: none
<zul> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> hah hah!
<Daviey> no more travel please! :)
<zul> so summer is coming up, so that means stuff like oscon, velocity, linuxcon, etc, etc etc
<arosales> gluecon coming up for m_3
<arosales> 23-24 may
<s3h> i might go to linuxcon, but waiting to hear on that
<s3h> (plumber's, really)
<Daviey> s3h: oh, neat!
 * zul hopes to stay home this summer
<zul> oh yeah OLS as well
<SpamapS> Daviey: actually we're going to have a sprint, just you and me, here in LA, for the next 3 weeks.
<s3h> (waitingn to hear from Daviey that is :)
<Daviey> SpamapS: sounds awesome.
<zul> moving on
<SpamapS> Velocity is coming up
<SpamapS> wait
<SpamapS> I think somebody is going to that
<SpamapS> (sorry I got majorly lagged out there)
<zul> im guessing m_3
<arosales> velocity is at the end of june
<SpamapS> Jorge and Hazmat I think
<arosales> 27-28 June
<m_3> no Velocity for me... I'll be out of pocket
<SpamapS> Oh and LISA talk submission deadline is this week
<SpamapS> so for all ubuntu server users, make sure you get your "Ubuntu server is awesome" talks submitted! :)
<SpamapS> that is all
 * smb hopes to go to Plumbers and maybe XenSummit as it is just before that
<SpamapS> Isn't plumbers in San Diego?
<zul> mmm....more citrix marketing
<zul> it is
 * m_3 just hopes Plumbers scheduling is working seamlessly atm :)
<m_3> yes, san diego... late august I think
<SpamapS> m_3: talk to the IS guys.. they wrote charms for the schedule boxes too
<smb> 29-31
<SpamapS> ok thats enough about events. :)
<m_3> SpamapS: that's the one on the summit charm.. don't think we're doing anything beyond that
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<zul> hi hggdh
<zul> if you are around
<zul> lots of good qa sessions at uds as well
<SpamapS> Yeah QA were the rockstars of uds-q :)
<zul> i guess he is not here
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<zul> hi smb
<smb> \o
<smb> Are there Questions ?
<zul> i didnt attend any kernel sessions at uds
<smb> As I don't think I have much to report
<zul> er...what kernel are we using for quantal? ;)
<smb> 2.6.24
<smb> :-P
<zul> how retro
<zul> any questions for smb?
<smoser> big news from kernel team was that -virtual may be going away.
<zul> yay!
<smb> Right, more of a packaging change
<zul> replacing it with a regular server kernel?
<smb> no, that does not exist anymore
<smb> generic or generic-pae
<zul> regular generic kernel
<zul> ah i see
<smb> And having a split between minimal and additional modules
<zul> cool
<zul> anything else for smb?
<rbasak> As an aside, currently we can get an indication of whether a reporter is using a "desktop" machine via the kernel in bug reports. With this going away, perhaps we should add information to see if X or ubuntu-desktop or something is installed?
<zul> rbasak: well they can still have a server with ubuntu-desktop installed
<rbasak> That's the thing - there's no real distinction in technical terms, but pragmatically the information is useful when triaging
<zul> right totally agree and thats been a problem for a long while
<SpamapS> rbasak: we get the install media
<smb> Hm, I may be wrong but potentially the linux-server meta package is still there
<SpamapS> rbasak: thats a good indication of what they intended at install time
<smb> Yeah, seems to be true
<zul> SpamapS: install media can be maas now as well though
<zul> anyways i dont think its going to be solved as well
<smb> rbasak, ^
<zul> er...solved now
<rbasak> We don't always get the install media, eg bug 999614.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 999614 in php5 (Ubuntu) "new SoapClient() with connection_timeout = NULL breaks multi-dimensional arrays" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999614
<rbasak> That may be a cloud image or something
<zul> so moving on
<zul> rbasak: good timing
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Calxeda demoed MAAS working on their hardware at UDS!
<rbasak> Work on ARM server and MAAS is ongoing.
<rbasak> Any questions for me?
<zul> i want one
<rbasak> That's not a question :-)
<zul> please can i have one?
<rbasak> No.
<rbasak> :-P
<rbasak> I don't think any ETA for general marketing availability has been announced yet.
<rbasak> *market
 * zul sighs
<zul> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<zul> anyone want to get something off their chest
<zul> how was uds for everyone?
<SpamapS> weird going back and forth for just 2 days
<arosales> SpamapS: did you collect some good feedback for remote participants?
<arosales> or was that handled pretty well?
<SpamapS> I think we should consider google hangouts
<s3h> we tried one for one talk.   didn't work well
<SpamapS> I see no reason to put people in a one-way audio bubble
<jamespage> I was in a couple of meetings where that worked OK
<SpamapS> s3h: what went wrong?
<smoser> google hangout swould be a useful addition. especially if integrated with the room.
<zul> need more bandwith i think
<s3h> choppy, delay
<SpamapS> Ah
<rbasak> I've found G+ to be choppy and delayed as well.
<SpamapS> Thats surprising
<rbasak> How about a SIP hardware phone on speakerphone?
<s3h> that would be aweseome
<s3h> how about just mumble :)
<jamespage> SIP hardware phone was avaliable on request
<s3h> did anyone try it?
<rbasak> The catch about two-way audio is that it relies on everyone being able to control their mute button
<SpamapS> well anyway, I find it very hard to "participate" from IRC+delayed audio
<jamespage> The DMB meeting used one - it worked OK
<s3h> SpamapS: +1, same here
<SpamapS> But it did "work" and I felt that I was able to chime in a bit.
<s3h> the delay makes it unusable if you're goign to be really involved
<SpamapS> rbasak: thats the catch IRL too ;)
<s3h> fine for just following along half-heartedly
<rbasak> The good thing about G+ is that someone managing things can identify who is causing an audio issue and remote mute him.
<s3h> good conf lines can do that too :)
<rbasak> The catch is that this needs someone to manage things.
<zul> asterisk
<s3h> i seriously didn't know about the sip lines.  we should try those for next time
<s3h> or yeah, asterisk to Daviey's server
<SpamapS> anyway, remote participation is probably worth improving, but all in all, it worked fine and etherpad especially made it easy to keep track of session notes in multiple rooms
<s3h> +1 for etherpad
<jamespage> just remember to save your notes....
<s3h> oh yeah - by when?
 * jamespage shrugs
<s3h> "before that storm rolling in"
<jamespage> not sure but the sooner the better
<s3h> i would, but this meeting wont' end :)
<jamespage> lol
<zul> i think there was an email about uds feedback that you can do :)
<zul> so anything else so i can end the meeting for s3h?
<zul> if not
<zul> same time next week
<zul> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 15 16:37:44 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-15-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-15-16.00.html
<s3h> thanks :)
<arosales> zul thanks for chairing
<roaksoax> \o/
<zul> arosales: no probs this is the longest possible time i have before i chair again ;)
<roaksoax> lol
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 15 17:00:33 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<henrix> o/
<bjf> o/
<cking> o/
<herton> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> work on a Q/omap4 kernel is ongoing, but apart from that, nothing to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<sconklin> o/ Late
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> a few things...
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team
<ogasawara> Work items are beginning to populate the blueprints.  I'll start calling
<ogasawara> out specific work items in upcoming meetings.
<ogasawara> We've rebased the Quantal kernel to upstream v3.4-rc7.  We uploaded but
<ogasawara> ran into a build failure on i386.  Test builds are currently underway
<ogasawara> and we will re-upload shortly.  We also have the quantal kernel building
<ogasawara> in precise.  We are getting a PPA set up so that testing can commence.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Jun 7 - Alpha 1 (~3 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> Currently we have 82 CVEs on our radar, with 5 new CVEs in the last
<apw> three weeks.  See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<apw>  
<apw> Overall the backlog has increased slightly slightly this week:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> This week sees Quantal listed for the first time, and the addition
<apw> of the armadaxp kernels for ease of tracking.
<apw>  
<apw> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (May  15):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy    - 2.6.24-31.101 - Testing; Single CVE
<bjf>  * Lucid    - 2.6.32-41.89  - Testing; 5 CVEs
<bjf>  * Natty    - 2.6.38-15.59  - Nothing this cycle
<bjf>  * Oneiric  - 3.0.0-20.34   - Testing; 4 stable upstream releases (approx. 300 commits)
<bjf>  * Precise  - 3.2.0-24.38   - Testing; 2 stable upstream releases (approx. 140 commits)
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 15 17:05:01 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-15-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-15-17.00.html
<jussi> cripes, you guys are quick
<apw> jussi, blink and you miss it
<jussi> apw: true that
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-16
<rex> h
 * xnox 0/
<cjwatson> hey folks
 * stgraber waves
<infinity> \o
<cjwatson> Steve asked me to run today's IRC meeting as he has a conflict
<jodh> o/
<cjwatson> So a couple of notices first before everyone falls asleep:
<jodh> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
<cjwatson>  * Please do your blueprint drafting *this week* so that we get an accurate burndown graph on status.ubuntu.com as soon as possible.  You don't have to do a full wiki page if it just boils down to a few work items, only if it seems to need more exposition than that; so it shouldn't take too long.
<cjwatson> (If you're not sure what to draft, you might try going through "my schedule" on summit, and/or looking through the foundations track, and/or looking for specs on Launchpad where you're marked as drafter.)
<xnox> cjwatson: any wiki pages / tips on drafting blueprints the proper way (tm)?
<ev> xnox: anything mpt has ever written forms a good example of a well-written spec
<cjwatson>  * 12.04.1 is happening, a bit later than originally planned but no doubt sooner than we'll be ready for.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock has the current schedule, which puts it at 23 August in line with feature freeze for 12.10.
<cjwatson> ev: but massive overkill for a lot of our specs :-)
<infinity> ev: Fanboy.
<xnox> ev: thanks.
<cjwatson> So please keep a particular eye on anything that gets assigned to you for SRUs, though I'm sure that stgraber, bdmurray, and stokachu will help keep us in line there
<stokachu> :P
<cjwatson> xnox: I don't have anything immediately to hand - if you're still unsure after looking round a few examples from your teammates, let me know and I'll walk you through it
<cjwatson> OK, that's it for notices
<xnox> cjwatson: ok thanks.
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed May 16 15:07:19 2012 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<cjwatson> #topic Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<cjwatson> $ echo $(shuf -e barry bdmurray cjwatson doko ev infinity jodh ogra stgraber stokachu xnox)
<cjwatson> ogra stgraber doko barry infinity bdmurray xnox jodh stokachu ev cjwatson
<cjwatson> (not fixed, honest)
<ogra_> whee ! me first !
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * been sick since UDS (pneumonia apparently), first day completely without fever is today it seems.
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * tomorrow is ascension day in germany which is a public holiday so i wont be around
<ogra_> * finishing https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-embedded-rootfs to be in proper shape for acceptance
<ogra_> * finishing https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-hwpack-integration to be in proper shape for acceptance
<ogra_> * happy to take WIs from "event based initrd" and the "full image upgrades" specs
<ogra_> * still not done all merges
<ogra_> * promised doko to look into the gcc-4.7 FTBFS issues in debian and file debdiffs for failing packages
<ogra_> ..
<stgraber> Mix of things done pre and post UDS:
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - Tracked down race condition between NM and presence of loopback, will be in next NM SRU
<stgraber>  - Tracked down source of network disconnect on wifi with IPv6 + RDNSS, currently testing a patch, should be in next NM SRU
<stgraber>  - Merged ifupdown from Debian, got upstream to fix some bugs found by Quantal testers
<stgraber>  - Got dual-stack IPv4/IPv6 connectivty working over 3G with the Orange Poland experimental network.
<stgraber>    Currently doing that from the command line with a Nokia E51 using multiple PDP contexts for the 2 APNs. (need to blog about it)
<stgraber>  - Poked some upstream kernel developers to try and get bug 936714 fixed upstream (so we have it for 12.10 and in 12.04 with the backport kernel)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 936714 in linux (Ubuntu) "IPv6 DNS search list (DNSSL) isn't passed to userspace by the kernel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/936714
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Updated python-apt and lxc for quantal
<stgraber>  - First pass through my list of merges/syncs
<stgraber>  - Moved all non-english langpacks from Edubuntu's livefs to /pool and updated language-selector to deal properly with gcompris' langpacks. This should save > 30min of install time.
<stgraber> - SRU
<stgraber>  - Pushed ldm SRU to precise (bug 991745)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 991745 in LTSP "ldminfod doesn't seem to understand hidden=true in .desktop files" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/991745
<stgraber>  - Pushed lxc SRU to precise (bug 999187)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 999187 in lxc (Ubuntu Precise) "lxc-create for armhf fails with error "failed to execute template 'ubuntu'"" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999187
<stgraber>  - Helped with the resolvconf SRU, took a few times to get it right, but the one currently in -proposed should be good (bug 994539, bug 989585)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 994539 in resolvconf (Ubuntu Precise) "resolvconf 1.63ubuntu12 failed to install/upgrade -- "lsattr: Inappropriate ioctl for device While reading flags on /etc/resolv.conf"" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/994539
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 989585 in resolvconf (Ubuntu Precise) "resolvconf failed to install/upgrade because /etc/resolv.conf immutable" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989585
<stgraber>  - Pushed nagios-nrpe SRU to hardy, lucid, natty, oneiric and precise. Needs help validating as initial reporter doesn't seem active anymore.
<stgraber> - ISO tracker
<stgraber>  - Fixed bug 994816
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 994816 in Ubuntu QA Website "Buttons for adding bugs found in previous builds of a product" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/994816
<stgraber>  - Implemented new DB schema for qa-q-isotracker-testcases and migration code
<stgraber>  - Updated most of the UI to work with the new DB schema
<stgraber> - TODO this week
<stgraber>  - Try and get the rest of qa-q-isotracker-testcases implemented, then push to http://iso.qa.dev.stgraber.org
<stgraber>  - Go through all the UDS notes to extract the work items and update LP
<stgraber> (DONE)
<ev> infinity: of course I am. I sometimes read his specs to myself as bedtime stories.
<ogra_> thats passion !
<ev> xnox: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/Doc?docid=0AU5sFuLRpCpBZGZra2pqY2pfMTAxZ25rcnBnNXY&hl=en
<ev> xnox: but as cjwatson says, generally overkill
<infinity> barry: ?
<barry> updated blueprint work items from session notes. merged twisted-{core,bin} from debian; need to merge twisted-{conch,mail,lore,names,news,runner,web,words} dependencies.  gathered some stats for twisted buildbot for python 3. todo: port the launchpadlib stack, follow up on aptdaemon emails.  done.
<ev> boo twisted
<barry> ;)
<ev> ;)
<infinity> Agreed.
<infinity> Who wants to rewrite lp-buildd in !twisted?
 * ev hides, cowers
<infinity> (If I do it, it'll be perl)
<ogra_> make it shell !
<infinity> last week:
<infinity>  - UDS
<infinity>  - Sick Monday and Tuesday
<infinity> upcoming:
<infinity>  - Drafting specs
<infinity>  - Figuring out armel/armhf toolchain issues
<ev> hahahaha, I'll have to make more use of that threat
<infinity>  - Pushing some partner stuff out
<infinity>  - eglibc SRU
<infinity>  - Drugs and naps
<stgraber> infinity: let's port it to Go, I hear it's great for that kind of things ;)
<infinity> ...
<infinity> stgraber: Alright, *stavo.
<bdmurray> aught up on email from UDS
<bdmurray> review of boot-repair's /etc/default/grub modification code
<bdmurray> research into and won't fixing of update-manager bug 997846
<bdmurray> reported whoopsie bug regarding collecting LiveMediaBuild
<bdmurray> reported bug 993407 regarding install-info and /etc/environment
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 997846 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager in ubuntu 11.10 not showing 12.04 LTS upgrade" [Low,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/997846
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 993407 in texinfo (Ubuntu) "install-info can fail to install due to syntax errors in /etc/environment" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993407
<bdmurray> investigation into update-manager reporting dependency problems - leaving unconfigured bug reports
<bdmurray> reported update-manager bug 999890
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 999890 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "does not block follow up errors from earlier reports" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999890
<bdmurray> rewrote harvest-maintainer-script.py to use the launchpad API
<bdmurray> modifications to collect-bug-data (part of arsenal) to support ordering and limiting
<bdmurray> wrote a bug pattern for texinfo bug 993047
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 993047 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "ArrÃªt soudain de la lecture alÃ©atoire de Rhythmbox" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993047
<bdmurray> wrote a bug pattern for resolvconf bug 989585
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 989585 in resolvconf (Ubuntu Precise) "resolvconf failed to install/upgrade because /etc/resolv.conf immutable" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989585
<bdmurray> wrote a bug pattern for bug 523896
<bdmurray> .done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 523896 in shadow (Ubuntu Quantal) "useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523896
<xnox> * uds / specs
<xnox> - started factoring out work items (in progress)
<xnox> * updated `sudo' merge based on slangasek's comments (in progress https://code.launchpad.net/~dmitrij.ledkov/ubuntu/quantal/sudo/merge/+merge/104420)
<xnox> * grub2 sru/bugfix (bug #978464, quantal released, sru pending)
<xnox> * mdadm bugfix / packaging (bug #942106, cannot reproduce in a VM need
<xnox> more realistic hardware)
<xnox> * mdadm missing utilities (bug #957494, needs liaising with SpamapS)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 978464 in grub2 (Ubuntu Precise) "After LTS->LTS (lucid2precise) upgrade, upon reboot drops into grub recovery shell" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978464
<xnox> * got in touch with mdadm debian maintainers (one of them is russian
<xnox> as well) to understand why udev incremental mdadm assembly was patched
<xnox> out. Needs re-enabling in ubuntu.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942106 in mdadm (Ubuntu) "software raid doesn't assemble before mount on boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942106
<xnox> * usb-creator wipe all partitions bug (merged a fix, testing with
<xnox> sticks locally, bug #484252)
<xnox> * arrived from uds on monday, and had monday booked as swap day
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 957494 in mdadm (Ubuntu) "Missing added utility 'mdmon'" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/957494
<xnox> TODO:
<xnox> * specs / work items
<xnox> * ubiquity planning with cjwatson cryptsetup/raid/lvm
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484252 in usb-creator (Ubuntu) "Format action wipes all partitions" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484252
<xnox> .done.
<jodh> * first day back after UDS (so recovering from ubuflu).
<jodh> * catching up on mail.
<jodh> * starting blueprint/etherpad trawl to generate workitems.
<jodh> * annual review.
<jodh> â
<cjwatson> stokachu: Anything you'd like to note for this week?  Sorry, kind of sprung this on you :)
<stokachu> cjwatson: Probably have some SRU's to post next week (i just created a couple yesterday)
<cjwatson> OK - you can keep an eye on how other people are doing status dumps here and work out your own style from that :)
<stokachu> I do have a merge proposal that was reviewed by bdmurray https://code.launchpad.net/~adam-stokes/ubuntu/quantal/libgcrypt11/libgcrypt-fix-423252/+merge/105863 that i'd like to get done before i leave on vacation this friday
<stokachu> cool yea, seems like everyone is just pasting from a text file?
<cjwatson> anyone want to take that?  looks fairly short
 * xnox nods.
<cjwatson> stokachu: yep
<stokachu> ok cool
<cjwatson> "here's one I made earlier"
<stokachu> if i can get the merge proposal finished I can create SRU's for review next week
<cjwatson> I'll have a look after the meeting, then
<cjwatson> ev:
<infinity> I've got it.
<ev> hi, sorry
<infinity> Or, rather, I'm already looking.
<cjwatson> infinity: oh good, thanks
<stokachu> cool thanks
<ev> - Short week; UDS through Friday and travel on Sunday/Monday.
<ev> - Got all the work items in for all the crash database specs. Still need to
<ev>   write additional wiki page specifications where necessary.
<ev> - Built a Tarmac bot in the Canonistack (to eventually be replaced with
<ev>   james_w's juju charm) for running the whoopsie test suite on approved merge
<ev>   proposals and landing the branches.
<ev>   
<ev>   I'll also set this up for daisy and errors once I set up a more permanent
<ev>   Cassandra instance in the Canonistack, or create some magic around juju
<ev>   relations as part of the test suite (verify_command =
<ev>   CASSANDRA_IP=$(relation-get addr) make check)
<ev> - Modified whoopsie to fall back to SHA-512 hashing the MAC address of the
<ev>   first non-loopback device when a system UUID is not present.
<ev> - Finished charming (ugh) daisy, the backend service to the Ubuntu error
<ev>   tracker:
<ev>   http://code.launchpad.net/~ev/charms/precise/daisy/trunk
<ev> - Started charming (ugh) the retracers. Still need to charm errors.ubuntu.com.
<ev> - Created a branch out of my existing Debian packaging and set up a source
<ev>   package recipe. This resolves issues I was having in being able to provide
<ev>   packages for multiple releases (most of the infrastructure is lucid, but the
<ev>   retracers run on precise).
<ev> - Started reworking the mean time between failures backend code into a simpler
<ev>   "total crashes for the day / total users for the day" chart. Filed an RT for
<ev>   the initial deployment.
<ev> (done)
<cjwatson> Short week: UDS then swapped bank holiday.
<cjwatson> Pushed pykde4 the rest of the way up the hill for Python 3: yofel uploaded it.  Uploaded pyicu Python 3 port.  ubiquity will be uploaded shortly once I've had a chance to do a final build test.
<cjwatson> Transferring work items into LP and other writeup-related work.
<cjwatson> Attempted to get a working setup of the Debian testing migration code for quantal-proposed => quantal.  Somewhat harder than expected so will take a while longer.
<cjwatson> Finished off LP branch for per-packageset build scoring (https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/packageset-score/+merge/105915).  Awaiting completion of review.
<cjwatson> Working on per-pocket upload permissions.
<cjwatson> Switched to new self-service interface for backporters and decommissioned the code supporting the old archive-admin-only interface.
<cjwatson> Caught up on miscellaneous archive admin work.
<cjwatson> Retesting merges.ubuntu.com to see if it still dies after its firmware upgrade.
<cjwatson> To do:
<cjwatson>  About to dive into aptdaemon bug 926340.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 926340 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "aptd crashed with UnicodeDecodeError in _set_error(): 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 9: ordinal not in range(128)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/926340
<barry> cjwatson: \o/
<cjwatson>  Finish deploying new transition tracker.
<cjwatson> ..
<cjwatson> #topic Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<barry> cjwatson: have you seen glatzor's py3 port of aptdaemon?
<cjwatson> bdmurray,stokachu: Anything we need to be caring about urgently, either for 12.04.1 or 12.10?  I haven't seen arsenal reports set up yet (which may well be my fault)
<xnox> cjwatson: new transition tracker. Yeah!
<cjwatson> barry: Yeah, on my to-do somewhere
<barry> cjwatson: i have a stack of replies i owe him on it ;)
<barry> xnox: py3 transition tracker ready yet? :)
<cjwatson> xnox: got it mostly sorted with Laney at UDS, just need to polish
<stokachu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libvirt/+bug/520386 - has a MIR(?) Assigned to it with serge hallyn as the owner
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520386 in libvirt (Ubuntu Lucid) "libvirt-bin hypervisor does not support virConnectNumOfInterfaces / unable to create domain with virt-manager using network bridge" [Low,Confirmed]
<bdmurray> cjwatson: I'm a bit confused by bug 998492
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 998492 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Error while copying OS files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/998492
<xnox> barry: need to identify a few missing packages. then it can go onto new transition tracker ;-)
<cjwatson> bdmurray: so am I :)
<barry> xnox: awesome, thanks!
<bdmurray> I'd thought the work in 922949 was supposed to help with some of this
<cjwatson> as you say
<stokachu> Here is the MIR for netcf https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netcf/+bug/904014
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 904014 in netcf (Ubuntu) "[MIR] netcf" [Undecided,In progress]
<cjwatson> which I *think* leaves the possibility that something ate it between that check and dpkg looking at it
<xnox> bug 922949
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 922949 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "installation process can crash due to an issue with one package when choosing "install updates" as part of the install" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922949
<cjwatson> oh, no
<cjwatson> May 12 16:49:13 ubuntu plugininstall.py: Failed to find package object for /target/var/cache/apt/archives/libreoffice-core_1%3a3.5.3-0ubuntu1_i386.deb: "The cache has no package named 'libreoffice-core:i386'"
<cjwatson> So the check got confused and was ineffective ...
<cjwatson> doh
<cjwatson> bdmurray: I'll take this one for 12.04.1/12.10, it's clearly my fault anyway
<bdmurray> okay, thanks
 * infinity knee-jerks every time he sees bzip2 fail to unzip something...
<cjwatson> stokachu: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mir/+members is the set of people empowered to move that forward
<cjwatson> ah, maybe not, since they kicked it back to Serge for some work
<stokachu> yea netcf seems to be giving him a lot of trouble
<cjwatson> sounds like if you want to start sending patches that'd be welcome
<stokachu> cjwatson: ok I was gonna start working on it when my load lightens a bit
<stokachu> i was forced to do the windows port at the "other" company
<stokachu> :X
<cjwatson> I remember doing some libnl3 porting on some packages, though I don't remember whether netcf was one of them
<cjwatson> if it was a hacky "build on Ubuntu damnit" patch it might have been me ;-)
<stokachu> lol
<stokachu> other than that I dont have any major bugs that haven't got attention yet
<cjwatson> alrighty
<cjwatson> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<bdmurray> then I also had a question about bug 999890 - we inadvertenly let a bunch of bugs be reported that we did not want.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 999890 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "does not block follow up errors from earlier reports" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999890
<cjwatson> ah, too quick
<bdmurray> either section is fine ;-)
<bdmurray> so the question is what to do about the existing reports that got through
<bdmurray> just auto-close them or let them be?
<cjwatson> will they always have been accompanied by some other real report?
<Laney> ben> we might want to merge with upstream: notably it has support for matching on Suggests/Recomemnds/Enhances/Replaces now, which might be useful. It does IIRC have a new dependency though.
<bdmurray> yes, there will be one initial failure and then multiple follow on reports
<cjwatson> if so we could close them with an apology for the runaround, a note that the initial failure is the real bug, and saying they can reopen if we got it wrong
<bdmurray> I could search for the initial failure and mark the follow ons as dupes but they seems rather complicated.
<cjwatson> Laney: let me know in advance of the new dep if possible, since I'll need to run that through RT
<Laney> yeah
<bdmurray> cjwatson: okay sounds good
<cjwatson> maybe link to their +reportedbugs or something
<cjwatson> in fact you could point them at https://bugs.launchpad.net/~/+reportedbugs
<cjwatson> save looking up their id
<cjwatson> anything else?
<cjwatson> Bueller?
<ev> as mentioned I'll set up tarmac
<ev> team-wide
 * cjwatson looks forward to fighting with it ;)
<cjwatson> cool
<ev> :)
<cjwatson> ok, thanks all
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed May 16 15:38:30 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-16-15.07.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-16-15.07.html
<barry> thanks!
<ogra_> thanks cjwatson
<stgraber> thanks
<infinity> \o/
<jodh> thanks!
<ev> thanks
 * xnox 0/ awesome! thank you all =)
<stokachu> o/
<infinity> stokachu: Updated your merge proposal with a comment, and then fixed it and uploaded, FWIW.
<stokachu> infinity: awesome thank you!
<stokachu> infinity: i was following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff , should i not include .pc files?
<infinity> debdiffs certainly won't include them.
<infinity> But branches often do.
<infinity> It's likely not your "fault", per se.
<infinity> That was a minor nit.
<infinity> It's the update-maintainer thing you need to remember in future.
<stokachu> gotcha will make sure to include that
<stokachu> infinity: if those .pc files aren't a requirement I'll just ignore them on future merge proposals
<cjwatson> Well, they do need to end up in the branch as committed
<cjwatson> So depends on your attitude to MPs really
<stokachu> ah, seems like there are at least 2 ways to get things merged with either debdiff or merge proposal
<infinity> Then I contend that the branch was partially broken already. :P
<stokachu> i'd rather do whatever is easiest for the reviewer
<infinity> Since the MP was creating a file in .pc that already existed.
<infinity> stokachu: Do whatever you're most comfy with, every reviewer is different.
<stokachu> ok :)
<infinity> stokachu: I prefer straight patches and debdiffs, others prefer MPs, others prefer carrier pigeons and tiny magnets.  Whatever.
<stokachu> haha sounds good
<infinity> (I tend to just cheat and download the diff from the MP anyway, apply it locally, make sute I get a sane/clean debdiff, upload, and mark the MP "merged" without actually merging it, and let the importer sort it out... This likely makes me a Bad Person)
<stokachu> you should end that workflow with a *FLeX*
<m0ergaes> So, are there any Lubuntu-people here?
<wxl> o/
<nothingspecial> o/
 * MrChrisDruif lurks
 * bodhi_zazen lurks
<jmarsden|work> o/
<bioterror> o/
<m0ergaes> On the mailing list it was suggested to try to meet tonight
<m0ergaes> having a meeting without agenda
<StephenSmally> o/
<jmarsden|work> "tonight" is unclear different people are in different time zones ... 08:00 UTC was suggested, I think?
<m0ergaes> to see if we could unite the forces
<nothingspecial> Is there any member of the lubuntu team that would like to chair this meeting
<StephenSmally> i would, but i think i have only twenty minutes
<jmarsden|work> I'll volunteer if there is no objection from anyone
<m0ergaes> Please do!
<MrChrisDruif> m0ergaes; if you want logs, use #startmeeting
<jmarsden|work> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed May 16 20:06:49 2012 UTC.  The chair is jmarsden|work. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<StephenSmally> ok
<jmarsden|work> OK, so we need to figure out some sort of future direction, and we need a new wiki champion, as I understand it.
<jmarsden|work> #topic wiki champion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: wiki champion
<jmarsden|work> Anyone know of any volunteers for that role so far?
<jmarsden|work> OK.  So all we can do for now is make the need known.
<bodhi_zazen> amjjawad might be a great person to do this , he is not available until after at least June 1st
<jmarsden|work> #action jmarsden|work to email the list asking for volunteer wiki champions
<meetingology> ACTION: jmarsden|work to email the list asking for volunteer wiki champions
<StephenSmally> Well, i think we should have at leats three teams: Wiki team, Devel team and Art team
<StephenSmally> *least
<StephenSmally> Each team should have a "center" person
<Unit193> amjjawad has said that he doesn't like wikis, and doesn't understand them though.
<will_> Wiki, or "Docs"?
<bodhi_zazen> Yea, but, I have spoken with him more recently, and there are ways to support him
<nothingspecial> There are forum staff waiting to help with moving any documentation currently on the forums to the wiki http://bodhizazen.net/tweaks/ubforums2ubwiki.sh.txt
<bodhi_zazen> http://bodhizazen.net/tweaks/ubforums2ubwiki.sh.txt
<bodhi_zazen> script to convert forums posts -> wiki syntax
<bodhi_zazen> script works well, has been tested
<jmarsden|work> Sounds like we can let the wiki champion opening go until at least June 1st so amjjawad can provide his input on the subject.
<jmarsden|work> Moving on to the more general issue...
<jmarsden|work> #topic future direction
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: future direction
<StephenSmally> Guys, i know everyone wants to do something for lubuntu, but IMHO the organization is not clear
<StephenSmally> Is not clear who and how much are the developers
<StephenSmally> The art team seems is made by rafael only
<bodhi_zazen> o/
<StephenSmally> yes?
<bodhi_zazen> I suggest you encourage community members to be more actively involved
<wxl> someone correct me if i'm wrong but isn't julien still developing? just not going to be relaly involved in any sort of communications?
<bodhi_zazen> julien is developing
<bodhi_zazen> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2012-May/001516.html
<StephenSmally> Ok, but Julien is not the only developer...
<jmarsden|work> Correct.  And I'm here too, not that I have done a lot of development/packaging recently, but I have not gone away :)
<jmarsden|work> Officially the lubuntu-dev membership can be seen at https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev/+members#active
<bodhi_zazen> 3 developers , or am I reading that wrong ?
<jmarsden|work> Right.
<StephenSmally> yes, plus the Lsc team
<wxl> considering so much is upstream i don't see that as disporportionate
<StephenSmally> which counts 5 member
<StephenSmally> IMO is disproporzionate
<StephenSmally> the problem is that each developer cares about his code
<StephenSmally> for example pcman fix pcmanfm bugs (which is good, don't misunderstand me)
<StephenSmally> but we don't have a real team behavior
<nothingspecial> so we come back to encouraging the community to be more actively involved
<nothingspecial> ?
<bodhi_zazen> +1 nothingspecial
<wxl> encouraging them to be devs will require training
<wxl> i'd even like to contribute as a dev but don't feel that i have a good background to do so
<bodhi_zazen> training or reading
<nothingspecial> or mentoring?
<wxl> any and all but should be clear how to do it
<jmarsden|work> Learning, not necessarily training... self-study works too.  How you get the skills is less important than having them.
<bodhi_zazen> mentoring with expected reading ;p
<StephenSmally> I think that if we organize the teams better, we would be able to get more volunteers
<StephenSmally> I mean, if a volunteer don't know who talk to to  know how to fix a bug, he won't fix it
<StephenSmally> (poor example, i admit)
<bodhi_zazen> communication helps
<nothingspecial> across the community
<wxl> +1 StephenSmally
<bodhi_zazen> rewarding those who contribute, with training / education helps
<jmarsden|work> StephenSmally: Do you have specific suggestions for how to "organize the teams better"?  Either now, or can you write up your ideas and email the list, or put them on a wiki page, or whatever works to get them documented somewhere?
<StephenSmally> i will write something on the mailing list
<jmarsden|work> Great, thanks.
<bodhi_zazen> You can not expect someone to spend 6 hours reading, and 10 hours coding, without some payoff
<bodhi_zazen> developers willing to review code, mentor a little goes a long way
<jmarsden|work> #action StephenSmally  to write up ideas for improved team organization and email the lubuntu-users mailing list
<meetingology> ACTION: StephenSmally  to write up ideas for improved team organization and email the lubuntu-users mailing list
<bodhi_zazen> And you can not expect community without developers talking with users
<StephenSmally> bodhi_zazen, what you mean with payoff?
<nothingspecial> inviting people, encouraging participation, keeping the dialogue going
<bodhi_zazen> What are you going to do to motivate volunteers to donate hours of their time developing ?
<StephenSmally> There are no way you can motivate somebody
<StephenSmally> (IMO)
<bodhi_zazen> yes and no
<bodhi_zazen> you can discourage them
<wxl> bodhi_zazen: i imagine that julien will still to some degree talk to users
<bodhi_zazen> volunteers leave if they feel they have no voice
<wxl> but will likely do it through bug reports
<will_> Is there a backlog of development work?
<StephenSmally> will_, not really, or i don't know it
<wxl> everyone's motivated by different things
<jmarsden|work> There's always bug fixes and proposed enhancements, ... to LXDE components and to pcmanfm in particular
<wxl> some people are motivated by money, others egalitarianism, e.g.
<will_> jmarsden|work: is that listed anywhere? Like a Bugzilla report? I think that would be helpful to list somewhere on the Dev wikipage
<wxl> i suspect that there are plenty of people who would love to code but don't know where to start
<nothingspecial> wxl: collaboration is the key
<StephenSmally> Also, another problem for developers is that LXDE is currently hosted on git
<wxl> i think if we had some sort of even informal mentoring program that would encourage a lot of people
<StephenSmally> but a lot of lubuntu programs are hosted on launchpad
<wxl> StephenSmally: THAT is a problem. what would it take to move it?
<wxl> will_: if i remember correctly there's a todo list on the wiki, but i haven't looked in a while. that would be the logical place for it in any case. that or maybe lubuntu.
<wxl> s/lubuntu/launchpad/
<will_> ah ok.
<StephenSmally> I think launchpad is more developer-oriented, you can have mailing lists, teams and so
<jmarsden|work> StephenSmally: why is using git a problem for developers?  It works for me :)
<wxl> but i think we're talking about a developer todo list, StephenSmally
<StephenSmally> jmarsden|work, I mean, the incosistency between git and bazaar
<bodhi_zazen> wiki.ubuntu.com for teams
<Unit193> And, for example, other DE's for Ubuntu flavors aren't on LP.
<jmarsden|work> StephenSmally: Just one more version control system... not a major obstacle, IMO.
<wxl> one thing that seems important to deal with: i think julian was a coordinator for devs and now he's taking the role of contributor, which is fine, but who's going to take care of coordinating? who's going to take care of the dev wiki?
<nothingspecial> I wonder why we are talking about development and not about the team/community, which as far as I can tell seems to be the issue
<kanliot> the dev team can decide about the dev wiki
<jmarsden|work> wxl: If it needs it and Julien no longer wants to do so, I can take care of the dev related wiki pages.
<wxl> well i think honestly it's all very important, nothingspecial. the reason why making sure we've got the development covered is because otherwise we beocme stale and outdated.
<jmarsden|work> The developmebt TODO list is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Developers/TODO
<nothingspecial> thanks wxl
<will_> jmarsden|work: Thanks!
<wxl> i think, though, that we need a good head for wiki and-- i think-- support, too
<kanliot> i'll do wiki if chris is sure hes done
<jmarsden|work> wxl: Agreed in principle, but specifics on that need to wait until amjjawad has a chance to give us his input
<wxl> jmarsden|work: ok :)
<jmarsden|work> kanliot: OK, our first volunteer for new wiki champion... thanks for offering.  Feel fre to confirm with Chris by private email that he is "really done" if you are concerned about accidentally "stepping on his toes".
<kanliot> k jmarsden|work
<jmarsden|work> #topic any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: any other business
<wxl> if someone is needed for support, i'd help, too. i'm a bit tentative. life suddenly flares up and gets busy for me from time to time, but if there's no one else, i'm game.
<jmarsden|work> OK, is there anything else we need to discuss today?
<MrChrisDruif> I've got very small toes
<nothingspecial> I am here to work with both wiki and support with the forums
<kanliot> lol
<nothingspecial> any team really
<jmarsden|work> Ok... sounds like we are done for today.  Thanks everyone, we will meet again same time same place next week.
<jmarsden|work> #endmeeting
<wxl> thx all for your hard work
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed May 16 20:37:55 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-16-20.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-16-20.06.html
<Unit193> jmarsden|work: Thanks for being here and charing.
<wxl> ^ what he said
<m0ergaes> Bye!
<jmarsden|work> Unit193: You're welcome... it needed doing, and I thought I might need to step up and do it... bye all
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-17
<Emerling> please i need mootobot or meetingology  bot in #ubuntu-ve channel How i can put  in #ubuntu-ve channel??
<Emerling> exquisme my English
<n0rman> Emerling: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<n0rman> Emerling: and http://ubottu.com/
<Emerling> thanks n0rman
<Emerling> i see,. i reading meetingology  wiki but no see how put into my  loco team channel
<tumbleweed> ask meetingology's owner
<n0rman> Emerling: in the sencond page, you need to go to #ubuntu-irc
<Emerling> ok
<Emerling> thnaks
<czajkowski> pleia2: beuno ping
<beuno> czajkowski, on an interview call, sorry  :(
 * pleia2 waves
<czajkowski> just trying to round up folks for the CC meeting
<czajkowski> only 2 of us?
<czajkowski> hmmm
<czajkowski> less than good
<mdz> cjwatson and I are around for the TB catch-up
<pleia2> great
<czajkowski> ok just you and me pleia2
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 17 17:10:26 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> week after UDS is always hard
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgendatodays agenda
<czajkowski> #topic TB Catch up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: TB Catch up
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<pleia2> (just cleaning up the link for minutes :))
<czajkowski> mdz: cjwatson thanks for coming along
<czajkowski> pleia2: thank you
<pleia2> mdz, cjohnston, this is just a quick status check, how are things doing? any concerns?
<mdz> pleia2, there are a few things worth discussing I think
<mdz> first the administrative
<mdz> we seem to have had quite some difficulty scheduling meetings lately
<pleia2> oops, s/cjohnston/cjwatson
<mdz> not with attendance per se, but with people having different ideas of when the meeting was scheduled
<mdz> due to there being multiple resources for that
<pleia2> yeah, so there is the wiki, fridge calendar
<czajkowski> mdz: nods, always hard.
<mdz> there's also a Canonical calendar
<czajkowski> mdz: could the person who's due to chair send out a a day before reminder so people remember to turn up?
<mdz> and sometimes any two of them may disagree, and it's frustrating for folks who have adapted their schedules to attend meetings in the evenings etc.
<mdz> czajkowski, yes, but that just creates one MORE place where the meeting time is recorded :-)
<pleia2> since the TB isn't all Canonical, and we want to encourage community to see what happens at these meetings, should probably make sure wiki and fridge agree and go with that as the canonical calendar (er, little "c" canonical :))
<mdz> is it the time in the email? or what the calendar says?
<mdz> I wondered what other teams are doing, and whether we could simplify to only ONE authoritative schedule
<mdz> whether that's the fridge calendar, or something else
<mdz> and remove the others so there's no misunderstanding
<pleia2> yeah
<mdz> historically, this was problematic for various reasons
<pleia2> fridge is what the community largely uses
<mdz> e.g. google calendar losing its mind on DST changes
<mdz> or the right people not having access to change it
<cjwatson> I'm in principle here, but may have to leave at mid-meeting as I'm approaching EOD
<pleia2> I'd suggest adding the time as reykjavik, iceland - always UTC, no DST
 * stgraber waves (in the middle of something but on IRC if needed)
<cjwatson> the other people in this case was me not moderating list mail until late, but that was just a screw-up, I did at least barely remember in time
<cjwatson> s/people/problem/
<czajkowski> mdz: possibly just the fridge and then if people want to add an ical feed for their own use fine, but the fridge would always be right
<cjwatson> I think just the fridge is fine as long as we agree; didn't that use to be synced from google calendar?
<pleia2> fridge is a google calendar
<mdz> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Calendar the recommended approach is to create the event on your own calendar, and invite the fridge to it
<pleia2> and if any changes are ever needed and don't show up, you just swing by #ubuntu-news and give us a nudge
<pleia2> mdz: yeah, you can also ask the news team directly to add stuff
<mdz> OK, I'll do that then
<pleia2> great
<mdz> second topic is a small governance thing
<mdz> I'm listed as the "chair" of the TB, and have been since approximately the dawn of time
<mdz> but AFAIK that role is completely undefined, and I don't think it exists in practice
<cjwatson> in practice we rotate chairship from meeting to meeting
<mdz> in terms of the meeting chair, yes
<mdz> and I don't think there's a need for any other kind of chair
<mdz> all of the members of the TB are (should be) in equal standing
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> that's how I saw it at least from the outside
<mdz> how would we go about making that official?
<pleia2> on the CC the Chair is responsible for tie-breaking
<cjwatson> Where's that documented for the TB?  Just the wiki and maybe a copy on the website?
<pleia2> I think there is a wiki page somewhere outlining this, but I'm having trouble finding it
<cjwatson> I believe our official tie-break procedure is to invoke sabdfl; I can't recall ever needing it
<czajkowski> pleia2: ah I assumed on the CC as we rotate the chair, it was equal standing only sabdfl had tie-breaking
<mdz> cjwatson, yes and yes
<pleia2> czajkowski: that's meeting chair, this is full council chair (sabdfl is ours)
<mdz> I don't think it has happened once in practice in 8 years
<mdz> cjwatson, website for sure
<czajkowski> pleia2: ahh ok, this is where the term chair should possibly be defined then tbh, as chair has always been rotated on all boards with equal standing except CC which has mark as chair chair
<pleia2> mdz: sabdfl likes the idea of chairs, so I think we might want to defer this for feedback from him too (he may have a clearer picture or remember where we documented the role)
<cjwatson> We used to be closer to it when we were responsible for developer approval, but with the odd exception most other matters that come to us seem to be relatively consensual at least among the board
<mdz> I don't think it's causing any problem per se, but it seemed like a rough edge worth reviewing
<mdz> pleia2, if it's to be an official role, it should be elected
<pleia2> czajkowski: in theory membership boards have "chair" or "secretary" as well, who is also responsible for making sure the stuff gets done (team reports, meetings happen)
<cjwatson> back in Oxford in 2004 I'm sure I remember an explicit idea that Mark would break ties on the CC and TB
<mdz> cjwatson, that matches my recollection
<cjwatson> The notion drifted for a while because Mark also sat directly on both
<pleia2> ok, so I think we want to determine what the role is supposed to be, and then take the conversation from there
<cjwatson> Then he decided he wanted to step down from a direct seat on the TB, but I don't think that ever superseded his general benevolent-dictator role
<pleia2> ah
<mdz> pleia2, so that's a CC action then?
<pleia2> yeah, I'll take it
<pleia2> czajkowski: action me to look into definition of chair on these boards and follow up with CC and TB?
<czajkowski> #action pleia2 to start a thread on the role of a chair on boards
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to start a thread on the role of a chair on boards
<mdz> thanks
<pleia2> thanks :D
<czajkowski> pleia2: np sorry in 2 meetings at once :)
<czajkowski> any other comments from the TB members?
<mdz> in general, the various descriptions of the TB's role feel dated these days
<mdz> they talk about library versions and feature goals and so on
<mdz> and don't really capture that, at the scale Ubuntu operates at today, the TB isn't involved day to day in any routine decision making
<mdz> the de facto scope of the TB is to offer assistance in exceptional cases
<czajkowski> mdz: would it be an idea for the board to update the description and mail the CC afterwards for review?
<mdz> for example, if a team needs specific technical advice, or is having trouble reaching a consensus
<cjwatson> gah, we didn't get rid of all that library versions stuff?  I thought we nuked that from our own description a while back
<mdz> cjwatson, it's still on http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/governance
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard is a little less specific but still doesn't describe the present scope very well IMO
<cjwatson> grumble.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard is marginally better but could still use improvement.
<mdz> czajkowski, we could do that
<pleia2> it doesn't strictly need our review, but we can offer feedback if needed
<mdz> does that content belong on the website or on the wiki? it should only be in one place
<mdz> I think for most teams, it's in the wiki
<pleia2> the trouble with ubuntu.com is it requires a ticket and follow-up, it takes a while, so we want to make the website docs as simplified as possible
<mdz> but the CC, TB and SABDFL also have (redundant?) content on the website
<pleia2> yeah :\
<pleia2> that has never been coordinated very well, I don't know who writes the content for the website or who they work with in the community
<mdz> heh, it even says that the TB meetings alternate with CC, which I don't think is particularly accurate
<mdz> pleia2, if you could let us know where the verbage should go, I can take a stab at writing it
<pleia2> mdz: I'd say update the wiki and then we'll worry about the website
<cjwatson> I think the last time we talked about this I pared down the website content to be just our headline description; I should have gone further and made it a link
<mdz> ok
<pleia2> cjwatson: yeah
<pleia2> czajkowski: can you action mdz to update TB docs?
<mdz> those are the things which came to mind for me
<mdz> pleia2, I've got it
<czajkowski> #action mdz update the TB docs
<pleia2> thanks
<meetingology> ACTION: mdz update the TB docs
<mdz> we'll track it as a TB action
<pleia2> great
<mdz> cjwatson, anything else?
<mdz> czajkowski, pleia2, is this the kind of thing you were looking for in the catch-up? this is the first one I've participated in
<pleia2> mdz: yep! thanks for coming
<czajkowski> mdz: yes thanks
<mdz> the email mentioned "reviewing team reports together"
<czajkowski> always nice to see how other boards are doing
<czajkowski> mdz: indeed some boards do a monthly team report
<pleia2> mdz: just under "might" cover :)
<mdz> we used to do that, but AFAIK it was never more than a concatenation of the meeting minutes
<mdz> do you want to look at those and let us know if you have any questions?
<cjwatson> I fill in the TeamReports thing when I remember, which gets automatically concatenated
<cjwatson> We have been extremely quiet of late, in general; not much stuff has come to us
<czajkowski> nofd
<pleia2> the benefit of team reports is they end up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports which is included in UWN so the broader community has a place to go to see all reports
<czajkowski> nofd
<cjwatson> For the most part I view this as a good sign since our scope has been moving in the direction of dispute resolution
<mdz> oh, one other thing
<cjwatson> We've had some discussions about being more proactive about "issues of the day", but they haven't tended to come to much and perhaps they're not a god idea
<cjwatson> *good
<czajkowski> cjwatson: at least you discussed it
<mdz> the one recurring task (self)assigned to the TB, we've had trouble actually doing
<czajkowski> :)
<mdz> that being the brainstorm reviews
<pleia2> mdz: is anyone else formally reviewing brainstorm?
<mdz> pleia2, there are moderators who help garden it
<mdz> pleia2, but "review" is maybe a misleading name for what was intended on behalf of the TB
<pleia2> yeah, I think the idea of TB "review" was to find actionable development items
<mdz> the goal was that the most popular ideas in brainstorm should elicit an official response from the project
<cjwatson> The brainstorm reviews have been popular and (I think) useful when we've done them, but the last couple have been belated (I can hardly complain, since I started that trend apparently)
<mdz> to use brainstorm as a tool for listening to the user community
<mdz> maybe this is a sign that this should be delegated
<mdz> we had a brief discussion about that
<pleia2> I do think it's valuable thing
<cjwatson> It's sort of like the big-and-fluffy equivalent of looking at the top crashers on errors.ubuntu.com
<mdz> exactly
<mdz> anyway, just an FYI for purposes of this meeting I guess. nothing for the CC to do I think
<cjwatson> My feeling is that this does belong with the TB, but too many of our members are too busy; I don't know whether this view is shared
<czajkowski> mdz: cjwatson is it meant to be done at the meeting  or via mailing list ?
<mdz> of course I don't think we would turn away help :-)
<pleia2> I don't think it needs to be very formal, maybe grab some more general devs in the community and ask them to help out?
<cjwatson> czajkowski: too big for at a meeting, we've been rotating one member doing a review of the top ten (notionally) every three months
<mdz> czajkowski, it's a medium sized project, which involves working with various people in other teams and getting their help writing responses and publishing them
<pleia2> (it does seem that delegation is needed here)
<cjwatson> which is supposed to involve going and talking with appropriate developers to get them to supply responses
<cjwatson> when I did it I think I got something like a 60% response rate, which was lower than I'd hoped but wasn't bad
<pleia2> cheesehead from brainstorm is quite the active community member, talking to him about what brings the most value may be useful too
<cjwatson> it took me about three weeks elapsed time, probably about a day's total work
<czajkowski> cjwatson: 3 months is a long time as well.
<mdz> Ian Weisser offered help
<pleia2> ah, good
<mdz> the total amount of work across everyone involved makes it a sizeable effort
<mdz> maybe an hour's work each, but for a dozen or so people
<czajkowski> nods thanks for the explaination
<mdz> anything else?
<pleia2> I think that's it
<czajkowski> nope I'm all good thanks
<pleia2> thanks for coming
<czajkowski> ok we'll move on
<czajkowski> next person isn't about
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ping
<AlanBell> hi
<pleia2> JC Hulce/soaringsky - are you here with another nickname?
<pleia2> I'll follow up with them via email
<czajkowski> pleia2: I did that already in /whois
<czajkowski> #topic Election and appointment of the 5th member of the IRCC
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Election and appointment of the 5th member of the IRCC
<czajkowski> AlanBell: thanks for coming
<AlanBell> so the IRCC charter states we should have 5 members, back when this IRCC was appointed there were only 4 applicants
<AlanBell> we decided to hold off on recruiting until the Q cycle, so now we are ready
<czajkowski> great to hear
<pleia2> great
<AlanBell> the appointment process is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil
<pleia2> AlanBell: last time a sitting member of the IRCC did the call for nominations, so I'd suggest moving forward with a similar process this time https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2011-November/001465.html
<pleia2> send to the cc list, -irc and -news-team
<czajkowski> AlanBell: do you have a time frame in mind
<AlanBell> pleia2: ok, great, that bit wasn't so clear, I can do that
<AlanBell> czajkowski: lets get on and do it
<pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2011-November/001467.html is the second email in that (he had to make some adjustments :))
<pleia2> looks like the call was open for 2 weeks last time
<czajkowski> AlanBell: great just be really clear on the date/deadlines
<AlanBell> which takes it nicely to the end of the month if announced today
 * pleia2 nods
<czajkowski> AlanBell: thanks for this
<czajkowski> no actions from us from this
<czajkowski> anything else?
<pleia2> just a quick thing about the CoC
<AlanBell> ok, so end of this month for applications, then we can start the vote during next month
<pleia2> AlanBell: sounds good!
<czajkowski> #topic Code of Conduct
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Code of Conduct
<pleia2> at UDS the CC met to discuss the proposed CoC again, cproffit blogged about it here and linked to the notes: http://ftbeowulf.wordpress.com/2012/05/10/uds-day-four-code-of-conduct-review/
<pleia2> there have been some revisions based on this discussion (huge thanks to Laney in particular for his great feedback)
<pleia2> but being post-UDS week, we're still catching up to make sure everything was addressed :)
<pleia2> once we're at a good stopping point, we'll put it out to the community for another review before publishing
<pleia2> that's it from me
<czajkowski> great
<czajkowski> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<czajkowski> anything else ?
<czajkowski> nope ok then
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 17 17:58:50 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-17-17.10.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-17-17.10.html
<pleia2> I can update minutes and wiki
<czajkowski> pleia2: thanks
<pleia2> we can discuss who can chair next time on list (since not many people here now)
<czajkowski> aye thats was my reasoning for not picking beuno :)
<pleia2> we also need someone to email the next board on the list
<pleia2> we're in the new cycle, so our new list should go on the wiki once it's fully acked
<pleia2> I think that's it
<pleia2> thanks czajkowski
<czajkowski> pleia2: thanks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-13
<mdeslaur> yes, it'll be awesome for confining apps in user mode
<mdeslaur> and after that, I'll continue going down the CVE list
<mdeslaur> and, of course, I will be attending uds
<mdeslaur> that's it from me, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm again focused on apparmor related items this week, specifically focused on the security-s-appisolation-sdk blueprint
<sbeattie> I'm currently working on getting easyprof to support json input
<sbeattie> I'll also be attending uds this week
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me... tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm working on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-s-appisolation-dbus-performance
<tyhicks> I gathered performance numbers late friday and over the weekend and I'm analyzing them now
<tyhicks> I need to circle back around to the dbus policy language thread on the apparmor list and see if we can get a consensus on how the dbus rules should be structured and then make those changes
<sbeattie> ah yeah, I need to focus some more time there as well.
<tyhicks> also, I'd like to start fixing one of the known performance problems in how we're doing the AA access checks in dbus
<tyhicks> (and then rerun the tests)
<tyhicks> I'll be attending UDS as well
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> sarnold: I think you're up and then we can come back to jj
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week; I'll be spenidng most of my time reviewing jj's patches, but I'll probably dust off my auto* and m4 knowledge and fake python 3 porting knowledge and review someof the patches sent last week .. or two weeks back ..
 * tyhicks still needs to send a few prereq patches for dbus support in apparmor
<sarnold> I'm also going to look at mdeslaur's upstart patches, though earlier versions looked pretty well baked, it feels like that ought to go quickly
<jdstrand> actually, we missed chrisccoulson
<sarnold> and I'll be doing UDS :)
<jdstrand> ah, sorry, sarnold is still going (sorry)
<sarnold> chrisccoulson: you're up, hand the baton to jj when he shows up :)
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<chrisccoulson> so, i spent some time last week getting more familiar with chrome, following the discussions from the sprint
<chrisccoulson> i've put that to one side now to handle the regular firefox  and thunderbird updates
<chrisccoulson> which are nearly done
<sarnold> (woot)
<chrisccoulson> although, been hitting a hang frequently in raring. it turns out this is a glib bug, and i think explains some of the recent bug reports i've been getting (bug 1179554)
<ubottu> bug 1179554 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "Firefox hang on start because ibus calls g_object_new inside a class_init function" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1179554
<chrisccoulson> also, the arm builds failed because some jit tests timed out. i reproduced the same failures on my pandaboard at the weekend, and verified that lengthening the timeout fixes it
<chrisccoulson> also working on an embargoed update
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<chrisccoulson> jjohansen, i think it's your turn now :)
<jjohansen> hey
<jjohansen> so I will be working on my apparmor bp work items
<jjohansen> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdev-s-appisolation-signals-ipc-ptrace
<jjohansen> I have some prep to do for tomorrows apparmor IRC meeting
<jjohansen> and I need to finish finding/fixing a bug with the default profile, that made its way into the most recent devel kernels
<jjohansen> I think that is it for /me
<jjohansen> jdstrand: back to you
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tomboy.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xmp.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pwlib.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gnome-shell.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/inetutils.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> I had one for sbeattie: were you able to finish your easyprof templates?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: not quite, still finishing those up as well
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<sarnold> I'm curious about our proposed favored ssl/tls bindings in our SDK.. do we have an API there that's better than OpenSSL's for application authors to use?
<sarnold> do we get some nice ones for free with Qt/QML? or are they just thin wrappers around the painful API? :)
<jdstrand> sarnold: Qt has some, yes
<jdstrand> QML is just presentation, so it doesn't have anything
<jdstrand> well, it is more than just presentation
<jdstrand> but what I meant is that to get to the Qt SSL bits you need to write C++, but we don't expect many apps to be written in that (but it is there if they need it)
<sarnold> hrm.
<jdstrand> the webkit view should just handle that all transparently
<jdstrand> sarnold: it might be worth asking the sdk team about. they are quite responsive
<sarnold> for webby things, perhaps, but apps will likely have structured data that they want private and authenticated...
<sarnold> jdstrand: aha, got a favored contact?
<jdstrand> sarnold: I'd go to bzoltan
<sarnold> jdstrand: thanks :)
<jdstrand> np
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<pitti> hello
<pitti> oh, so mdz and cjwatson are out
<soren> o/
<pitti> kees, stgraber: ?
 * stgraber waves
<pitti> hm, so cjwatson was chair originally, and seems kees is out, too
<pitti> so I guess I'm next in line
<pitti> #startmeeting
<meetingology> pitti: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<pitti> oh
<pitti> hm, who started this?
<pitti> meetingology: help
<meetingology> pitti: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 13 20:07:45 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-13-16.31.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-13-16.31.html
<pitti> ah, merci
<pitti> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 13 20:07:53 2013 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pitti> #topic action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: action review
 * pitti looks for "See previous meeting "
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/TeamReports/April doesn't exist
<pitti> nor https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/TeamReports/13/April
<pitti> assuming "no actions"; stgraber, soren, do you remember any?
<soren> I don't even remember whether I was there :-/
<pitti> #topic SRU request for custom unity-greeter indicators
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: SRU request for custom unity-greeter indicators
<pitti> (mopping up mailing list now)
<pitti> I already replied on the ML; soren, stgraber, do you have any objections/points to discuss ther?
<pitti> e
<soren> No, I've got half a reply written up already anyway.
<stgraber> pitti: last meeting was 10min long, no action and no agenda
<stgraber> pitti: I'm fine with discussing on the mailing-list
<pitti> formally, one ack is enough anyway, but more opinions can't hurt
<pitti> #topic openssl as a system library
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: openssl as a system library
<pitti> TBH, I read the mail and half of Colin's reply, but I must say this legal mock attacking is slightly beyond me :/
<pitti> I find the Debian stanza way too extreme; I consider this incompatibility a bug, it has obviously not been designed to exclude free software from using each other; but I have no legally sound counterarguments
<soren> Fedora considers it a system library, right?
<pitti> yes
<soren> Or did I misunderstand that somehow?
<soren> Ok.
<pitti> this is exactly the kind of legal loophole which indicates to me that this whole conflict is just an unintended side effect (aka bug) of the two licenses
<soren> I've been inclined to agree, but ISTR Colin having sound arguments against it.
<pitti> I'm curious whether there has been any actual uproar from OpenSSL's upstreams about linking with GPL programs
<stgraber> pitti: oh actually my statement that the past meeting was 10min long and without action/agenda was wrong, that was the one before last. Last meeting was during the Canonical sprint and did happen, though it looks like Colin didn't get to post the minutes.
<soren> Well, the conflict between the licenses it pretty clear.
<pitti> I wouldn't like to come to a conclusion about this without cjwatson, so I propose to move that to the next meeting and/or email
<soren> GPL clearly says that you can't put forth further restrictions, while the OpenSSL license says that you must include some notice about it being used.
<stgraber> so based on what I saw on the mailing-lists and discussed in person with cjwatson last week, it sounds like squid may be a case where it's fine to allow linking with SSL on the basis that upstream is fine with this but can't reach all copyright holders to add the exception
<pitti> soren: yes, but the GPL itself enforces the mentioning of the license/copyright of the program, so in practice it's the very same "restriction"
<stgraber> for the other one (mongo I believe), IIRC upstream clearly stated in the bug report that they're not willing to change the license and that someone should contact their legal or sales department
<stgraber> which makes it sound like this is a case where we really shouldn't let it link against SSL
<pitti> so forcing distributors to mention the GPL and copyright while denying it to software using different FOSS licenses doesn't make sense
<pitti> stgraber: yes, I know; as I said, I have no firm legal arguments against that, but it still feels just plain stupid and against the spirit of the licenses
<pitti> cf. bug in the licenses
<soren> pitti: IIRC, GPL doesn't force you to do that. It says "should", doesn't it?
<soren> pitti: It doesn't even do that.
<pitti> it is a must clause for interactive programs at least
<soren> pitti: It says that that's how you apply the license to your program. It's not a requirement of the license itself.
<soren> They're instructions for licensors.
<stgraber> anyway, I agree with pitti that we definitely want to have cjwatson present before we make a decision on this, so should probably defer to the next meeting (unless we can come to an agreement on the mailing-list)
<pitti> well, how is "applying a license to a program" any different than "the license itself"
<soren> Not requirements of the licensee.
<pitti> ok, so let's carry this to the next meeting then, I'll put it on the agenda
<soren> Very well.
<pitti> #topic SRU approved without waiting in unapproved
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: SRU approved without waiting in unapproved
<pitti> that was Riddell's request
<pitti> I responded by email already
<soren> Yo did?
<pitti> in short, I'd consider it an invalid workaround for long SRU waiting queues, and replacing one problem with a much worse one
<soren> I didn't see a response from you. Not that I recall at least.
<soren> Nope.
<soren> Nothing.
<pitti> oh?
<pitti> Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 13:25:48 +0200
<pitti> From: Martin Pitt <martin.pitt@ubuntu.com>
<stgraber> I see it
<soren> orly?
<soren> Weird.
<pitti> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-May/001615.html
<soren> Never received that. How odd.
<stgraber> I agree that we have one problem which is the time it takes for something to hit -proposed but the way to fix that is with more people looking at the queue not by bypassing it
<pitti> anyway, if anything I think this should be discussed with the SRU team instead of circumventing peer review
<pitti> yeah, the turnaround should not exceed half or perhaps one week
* wright.freenode.net changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<pitti> I'll mail the SRU team and discuss with them, with TB in CC:
<stgraber> sounds good
<pitti> #action pitti to start ubuntu-sru delay discussion by email
<meetingology> ACTION: pitti to start ubuntu-sru delay discussion by email
<pitti> #topic brain storm review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: brain storm review
<pitti> it's May again
<pitti> but I think the last round already showed that there is very little interest from developers in this
<pitti> we just got some five responses, and none of them resulted in anything actionable AFAIR
 * pitti tries to check wiki, but it currently times out
<pitti> does someone volunteer to do another round? or should we just bin this, as it has by and large been replaced with design driven development anyway these days?
<stgraber> I think it's time to bin this
<soren> If we do stop doing it, we should probably close brainstorm as well.
<soren> Otherwise, it's just going to be where ideas go to die.
<soren> Even moreso than it was before.
<pitti> comparing the absolute numbers of voters from my december 2012 review to the ones I saw a year or two before that also showed radical decline of users
<stgraber> I'd be pretty happy with that considering nobody maintains it anyway and bug reports are piling up (it's on a very old Drupal version, full of bugs and requires quite a lot of work to be ported to something supported)
<pitti> ack
<pitti> ok, so we agree on that: stop brainstorm reviews and brainstorm itself
<stgraber> yep
<soren> Can we even make that decision?
<soren> (the latter, I mean)
<pitti> well, we can at least propose it
<pitti> not sure who "owns" that
 * soren neither
<pitti> that = brainstorm.u.c.
<soren> probably the CC.
<stgraber> well, I'm probably as close to an owner as can be for brainstorm (having started the project and being the only one still vaguely around)
<pitti> yeah, good point; I'll mail them
<soren> Nope.
<soren> Ubuntu QA set it up, apparently.
<soren> http://netsplit.com/2008/02/28/ubuntu-brainstorm-announced/
<stgraber> soren: correct, brainstorm was initially part of the same service as the QA tracker
<pitti> ah, Ubuntu community QA -- ok, I'll forward the proposal to balloons then
<pitti> balloons: if you are online, do you have a gut feeling about the fate of brainstorm.u.c.?
 * balloons floats in
<stgraber> anyway, AFAIK I'm the only admin left for brainstorm and the only few times I logged in recently was to purge some data after IS assigned me some tickets
<jcastro> I can take the item to close it/sunset it
<jcastro> it was assigned to me a while back
<jcastro> and everyone who set it up that I used to work with is gone
<pitti> jcastro: it seems both developers and most users have lost their interest in it (not that surprising given how the design process of Ubuntu changed over the years)
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> it's always been an odd site
<balloons> pitti, jcastro and stgraber are correct.. It's a nest of unmaintainedness
 * balloons notes that's not a word
<jcastro> so how do I go about doing this, propose on -devel and go from there?
<stgraber> jcastro: right, I just had a quick look at when the other admin logged in and they clearly don't seem very active ;) nand logged in 28 weeks ago so I'm apparently the most active admin with 3 logins this year ;)
<pitti> jcastro, balloons: ok, seems we all agree then; can we hand stgraber or you the task to shut it down?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I'll take the task, stgraber has more important things to do. :)
<pitti> heh
<pitti> thank you
<balloons> we'll need to mention the proper avenues to push ideas.. aka, join in UDS, mailing lists, etc
 * soren hugs jcastro 
<pitti> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
<pitti> did I miss anything?
<jcastro> balloons: yeah I'll handle all of that.
<stgraber> jcastro: thanks! let me know if you need any detail on how to actually kill that thing (if we need to extract/archive any data from it)
<jcastro> stgraber: I'd like to see if we can do a readonly dump of it or something, I'll ask IS
<pitti> #topic community bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: community bugs
<pitti> zarro
<pitti> #topic chair for next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: chair for next meeting
<pitti> carrying over cjwatson?
<pitti> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<stgraber> no, he chaired the last meeting
<stgraber> (during the sprint)
<pitti> oh, ok; kees then
<pitti> un
<pitti> deux
<pitti> trois
<pitti> le fin
<pitti> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 13 20:45:22 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-13-20.07.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-13-20.07.html
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<stgraber> thanks pitti!
 * Daviey curses himself for missing the meeting.
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-14
<lifeless> [1;3C[1;3C[1;3C[1;3C[1;3C[1;3C[1;3C[1;3C[1;3C[1;3C/win 50
<JoseeAntonioR> lifeless: anything we can help with?
<lifeless> JoseeAntonioR: sorry, irssi + high latency + wifi == fail.
<JoseeAntonioR> no worries :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-15
<codekeeper> server
<codekeeper> out
<jared> !rmb
<ubottu> cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat,  hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg,  Pendulum, PabloRubienes, freeflying, jared, amachu, and bkerensa. Meeting time.
<cyphermox_> o/
<jared> Evening cyphermox, I believe Pendulum is swinging around (Hah!). Just need a fourth
<freeflyi1g> hi there
<jared> Eveining freeflyi1g, I believe that makes it quorum
<cyphermox> still no gipsypyaesone I see
<jared> They just timed out about a minute before the ping
<cyphermox> oh, indeed
<cyphermox> and apparently no Pietro either, though
<jared> No Pietro either though it seems
<Guest91660> gipsypyaesone is near me, wait
<Guest91660> his account quit. he is now entering....
<cyphermox> Guest91660: thanks
<gipsypyaesone> Hello!
<gipsypyaesone> I am here now......
<jared> gipsypyaesone: good evening'
<gipsypyaesone> yeah, Good evening to all......
<cyphermox> #startmeeting 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed May 15 12:13:09 2013 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 1200 UTC meeting for May 15, 2013. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<cyphermox> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<cyphermox> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<cyphermox> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<cyphermox> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<cyphermox> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<cyphermox> #voters cyphermox Pendulum jared freeflying
<meetingology> Current voters: Pendulum cyphermox freeflying jared
<cyphermox> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<cyphermox> #subtopic gipsypyaesone
<gipsypyaesone> Yeah, I am here
<gipsypyaesone> should i introduce first?
<cyphermox> please :)
<gipsypyaesone> I am using ubuntu since 2009. Our leader Ko Ko Ye introduced me about Ubuntu. I am core member of the Ubuntu Myanmar LoCo Team. I am now localization Ubuntu into Myanmar(Burmese) Language. Most of UI are now with Burmese Language. As localization is my only way, I can help Ubuntu as localizer. In future,I will try to improve Ubuntu in Burmese Language.
<gipsypyaesone> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/pyaesone
<gipsypyaesone> and http://launchpad.net/~gipsyhnh
<jared> gipsypyaesone: thanks for that and glad you could make a meeting.
<gipsypyaesone> yes,
<jared> gipsypyaesone: so approximately how much of your contributions is the translations? Do you run many loco events?
<gipsypyaesone> yes, i give presentation about translations in ubuntu events in myanmar.
<gipsypyaesone> you can check via translation karma.
<jared> gipsypyaesone: thanks, we're just reading the application details.
<cyphermox> gipsypyaesone: do you have friends here in this meeting for support?
<cyphermox> Guest91660 was mentioning you were beside them before
<Guest91660> yeah, i am gipsypyaesone friend
<Guest91660> he drop again i think....
<gipsypyaesone> sorry, line drop
<gipsypyaesone> yeah, he is only one now, others are busying for ubuntu class
<cyphermox> alright
<gipsypyaesone> ok
<cyphermox> #vote gipsypyaesone to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: gipsypyaesone to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cyphermox> +1 excellent translation work
<meetingology> +1 excellent translation work received from cyphermox
<jared> +1 good to see some consistent efforts with translation and supporting the LoCo. Glad you could finally make a meeting and I look forward to seeing your efforts into the future.
<meetingology> +1 good to see some consistent efforts with translation and supporting the LoCo. Glad you could finally make a meeting and I look forward to seeing your efforts into the future. received from jared
<Guest91660> +1
<jared> Guest91660: sorry, only board members can register a vote, but thanks for coming along to support :)
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<freeflyi1g> +1 too
<cyphermox> oops
<cyphermox> #voters cyphermox Pendulum jared freeflyi1g
<meetingology> Current voters: Pendulum cyphermox freeflyi1g freeflying jared
<freeflyi1g> +1 too
<meetingology> +1 too received from freeflyi1g
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: gipsypyaesone to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<freeflyi1g> sorry
<cyphermox> Congrats gipsypyaesone
<cyphermox> freeflyi1g: np, I hadn't taken into account your alts
<jared> gipsypyaesone: well done and congratulations
<Pendulum> gipsypyaesone: congrats and welcome!
<cyphermox> gipsypyaesone: please don't forget to add your blog to planet.ubuntu.com :)
<gipsypyaesone> Thanks you very much, I am so exciting to be ubuntu members...... I will continue localization...
<gipsypyaesone> Ok, I will add sure. Thanks You all
<jared> So I can't see Pietro around currently, if you're here please make it known.
<cyphermox> jared: you type fast ;)
<jared> cyphermox: heh, not bad for someone still actually eating dinner ;)
<cyphermox> hehe
<jared> I blame years of IRC
<gipsypyaesone> Ok, bye bye  I am going home. Thanks
<cyphermox> thanks gipsypyaesone
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed May 15 12:38:40 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-15-12.13.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-15-12.13.html
<jared> gipsypyaesone: good bye and thanks for oyur application
<gipsypyaesone> Thanks you too.
<gipsypyaesone> ok Jared, thanks for you vote......
<stokachu> slangasek: i assume no meeting today?
<stokachu> slangasek: and if not do you mind if i email you 3 bugs that need attention for start of next week?
<slangasek> stokachu: right, no meeting - email is fine
<stokachu> slangasek: ok thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-16
<Encrypt> Hi everybody! :)
<Encrypt> Do you have any release date for the Ubuntu TV software?
<Encrypt> I'm really waiting for it, it'll be fun when it is finished! :)
<makdaz7> hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-19
<elfy> who's here for Forum Council meeting other than coffeecat and Iowan
<Iowan> Not a quorum, but nut much requiring a vote.
<elfy> #startmeeting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun May 19 18:01:47 2013 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda Meeting | Current topic:
<Iowan> *not
<elfy> nothign requiring a vote even
<elfy> agenda is empty other than fixed items
<elfy> and we can do that - both happy?
<Iowan> :)
<elfy> coffeecat ^^ ?
<coffeecat> o/
<elfy> you happy for the 3 of us to make the other 4 do the month's task?
<Iowan> :D
<coffeecat> :)
<elfy> or shall we do what we did last month task wise except I will go through monthly report with sef ?
<Iowan> +1
<coffeecat> ok
<elfy> #info all to do tasks as last month - except elfy will work through monthly report with sef
<coffeecat> The contact us form is the most onerous. Suggest you pm the missing ones to see if one of them wants to volunteer.
<elfy> obviously got syntax wrong there then :)
<elfy> coffeecat: it's been fairly easy this month
<coffeecat> lucky old you!
<coffeecat> I get all the weird ones it seems.
<elfy> :)
<coffeecat> I'm happy to carry on with the welcome pm. I get one pointless reply per day.
<elfy> #nick coffeecat to deal with welcome pm
<Iowan> Curious why I've been getting some, too...
<elfy> well I hate this bot then :)
<coffeecat> Iowan - probably old ones - people who've only just worked out how to login.
<elfy> Iowan: it'll be an admincp setting
<elfy> or that
<Iowan> Doesn't bother me - just curious
<Iowan> elfy - #action?
<elfy> possibly
<elfy> #action coffeecat to deal with welcome pm
<meetingology> ACTION: coffeecat to deal with welcome pm
<elfy> yay
<elfy> #action elfy to work through Monthly Report with Sef
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to work through Monthly Report with Sef
<elfy> #action contact us link to be elfy
<meetingology> ACTION: contact us link to be elfy
 * Iowan just skates by again...
<elfy> mmm - who did first contact in RC ? was it merk?
<Iowan> All of  us?
<pleia2> if you don't mind, I do have a quick question for the FC (from the newsletter team)
<coffeecat> I think it's just whoever first notices.
<elfy> I thought merk was first - unless someone pitched up
<elfy> pleia2: ok - give us a moment
<elfy> #action RC first contact - whoever notices first
<meetingology> ACTION: RC first contact - whoever notices first
<coffeecat> I'll create an account name "whoever notices first" ;-)
<elfy> anything else?
<elfy> coffeecat: can I #action that :D
<coffeecat> lol
<elfy> nothing else that I can think of
<coffeecat> nothing I can think of
<Iowan> nothing here...
<elfy> k
<elfy> hi pleia2 - how can we help the newsletter team?
<pleia2> ask ubuntu sent us a nice script for pulling weekly stats (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue312#Ask_Ubuntu_Top_5_Questions_this_week ) does the forums have the ability/desire to include something similar stats-wise?
<elfy> mmm
<pleia2> if not, that's fine, but I did want to reach out
<elfy> sounds like a great idea - except last week it would likely have been the community is being ignored again :D
<pleia2> that's ok, we try to be as non-bias as possible in reporting :)
<pleia2> good news, bad news, whatever!
<elfy> can we think about how we could actually try and make it work forum wise - it's a bit different there - we don't close things like AU does obviosuly
 * pleia2 nods
<elfy> but it sounds like a good idea if we can get around what and how to do it to me
<elfy> coffeecat Iowan ? thoughts at a first glance?
<pleia2> we hang out in #ubuntu-news or you can just ping me once/if you have an idea
<Iowan> make it an agenda item for next time - just as a reminder to us weak-memoried
<elfy> yea - I can usually find you pleia2
<pleia2> I just wanted to put the invite out there (we aren't specifically including askubuntu and excluding you! they asked and provided a script)
<elfy> #action - look into 'stat' script for newsletter - FC mailing list
<pleia2> thanks everyone :)
<meetingology> ACTION: - look into 'stat' script for newsletter - FC mailing list
<Iowan> that works, too...
<coffeecat> I suppose we could go by tags - it should be straightforward to search for them - but not everyone uses tags or those who do even sensibly
<elfy> yea coffeecat agreed - but certainly something we can look at
<elfy> even if it's hand done once a month by mmmm
<Iowan> gonna take some head-scratching
<elfy> cariboo907
<pleia2> monthly is fine too
<elfy> cos he's not here either :p
<coffeecat> yeah - raw data on number of new posts/threads is fairly boring.
<elfy> pleia2: we'll have a think - thanks for coming by
<Iowan> ban /infraction list ;)
<elfy> coffeecat: agreed with that
<coffeecat> lol
<elfy> anything else?
<elfy> anyone?
<Iowan> nothing productive
<coffeecat> nothing more from me
<elfy> ok
<elfy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun May 19 18:21:41 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-19-18.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-19-18.01.html
<elfy> thanks both - thanks pleia2 :)
<coffeecat> thanks elfy
<Iowan> Thanks for running the show elfy
<elfy> lol
<elfy> #nick does work it seems for the logs at least
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-12
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<jjohansen> o/
<mdeslaur> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 12 16:32:49 2014 UTC.  The chair is mdeslaur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<mdeslaur> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<mdeslaur> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<mdeslaur> Thanks to the following contributors for their help on security updates last week:
<mdeslaur> Otto KekÃ¤lÃ¤inen (otto) provided debdiffs for trusty for mariadb-5.5 (LP: #1313187)
<mdeslaur> James Page (jamespage) provided a debdiff for trusty for mysql-5.6 (LP: #1313566)
<mdeslaur> Reinhard Tartler (siretart) provided an updated libav package for trusty (LP: #1277173)
<mdeslaur> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1313187 in mariadb-5.5 (Ubuntu Utopic) "USN-2170-1: MySQL vulnerabilities also applies to MariaDB" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313187
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1313566 in mysql-5.6 (Ubuntu Utopic) "mysql 5.6.17 security update tracking bug" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313566
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1277173 in libav (Ubuntu) "February 2014 libav security tracking bug" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277173
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<mdeslaur> none
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<mdeslaur> I'll go first
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week.
<mdeslaur> I'm working on some updates, and I'll probably be doing the embargoed issue tomorrow
<mdeslaur> I also have to review blueprints
<mdeslaur> and I'm going to plan a meeting to go through them with the rest of you tomorrow
<mdeslaur> quite possibly around this time
<mdeslaur> well, a half hour later
<mdeslaur> that's it from me, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm working on compiler hardening stuff again; I'm currently looking through the test results for gcc-4.9 for enabling -fstack-protector-strong by default and fixing the way -Wformat and -Wformat-security were being enabled.
<sbeattie> Things on that front are looking good and I'll probably hand off those patches to doko later today.
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: cool!
<sbeattie> Getting -pie by default for amd64 is looking trickier and will take some more time.
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: trickier in what way?
<doko> sbeattie, does this mean I get fixes for the testsuite? ;p
<sbeattie> Defining specs for per-arch where gcc treats i386/amd64 as the same arch is non-obvious/
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: hrm...what about the idea of conditionally patching it based on arch?
<sbeattie> doko: not immediately, but yes, I intend to look at those, too; the patches I have reduce the number of failures by a few.
<mdeslaur> or is that painful for cross-compilation or something?
<doko> is -fpie already decided?
<sbeattie> It makes it harder to avoid enabling -pie for -m32 case
<mdeslaur> doko: for amd64, pretty much yeah
 * doko sees python and cc1 performans going down :-/
<mdeslaur> doko: buy a faster machine!
<sbeattie> doko: well, once we have a patch to do that, we can see the impact, if it's bad there than we can revisit and/or disable for just those.
<sbeattie> anyway. I still need to investigate mod_apparmor and track down some QRT issues with ppc64el this week.
<sbeattie> And I guess review blueprints, too.
<sbeattie> That's it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm wrapping up the dbus merge from debian testing
<mdeslaur> ah, right, I probably should tackle some merges too
<tyhicks> there's a new test-dbus.py failure (running make check) that I need to make sure isn't caused by the new apparmor mediation patches
<tyhicks> then it is back to kdbus (I let the merge and some apparmor testing jump in front of my planned kdbus work from last week)
<tyhicks> I also need to review blueprints and prepare for the sprint this week, since I'm out next week
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I am working on apparmor this week. I need to spend some time looking at the upstream cross rename patches, there is a reported regression in apparmor with them.
<jjohansen> I need to finish testing the patchset I have for upstream this week so it can land in time for the next kernel merge window.
<jjohansen> Hopefully there will be more feedback on the bugs I was poking at last week so I can continue looking at them while the are fresh in my mind
<jjohansen> There are some outstanding patches I that need to be reviewed on the mailing lists
<jjohansen> bp to look at
<jjohansen> and then it will be back to finishing up one of my outstanding patch queues so that it can be kicked out for review
<mdeslaur> yay
<sarnold> \o/
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me, sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on triage this week
<sarnold> I have an emargoed update this week
<sarnold> and I've gotten the test-django script to only 7 instead of 8 failures on trusty, so.. 86% left to go there, I guess
<mdeslaur> sarnold: heh, nice. did you get it working with the other apache thingy?
<mdeslaur> mod_wsgi
<sarnold> mdeslaur: that was the one success :)
<mdeslaur> cool :)
<sarnold> mdeslaur: now just to figure out why the other seven still don't play along with mod_wsgi -- they might still be faults in configuration or those tests may also need more modification
<mdeslaur> sarnold: apache 2.4 moved some stuff around, and required a few more modules
<sarnold> it might be simple (django changed some of the routing API, but those changes were easy to adapt..)
<mdeslaur> a lot of the other qrt scripts needed adjustments
<mdeslaur> it may be related to that
<sarnold> mdeslaur: yeah, the auth changes required a bit of fiddling too, but at least it lines up exactly with django's change to wsgi as well..
<sarnold> it's been more work than I first expected. :)
<sarnold> mdeslaur: back to you :)
<mdeslaur> sarnold: that's why I gave it to you instead of doing it myself :)
<mdeslaur> slacker++
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<mdeslaur> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<mdeslaur> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/nss-pam-ldapd.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openjdk-6.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/shibboleth-sp2.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libcgi-application-perl.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/encfs.html
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<mdeslaur> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<mdeslaur> zzzz
<mdeslaur> Thanks everyone!
<mdeslaur> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 12 16:55:34 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-12-16.32.moin.txt
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks mdeslaur!
<jjohansen> thanks mdeslaur
<mdeslaur> \o
<pitti> hello
<mdeslaur> hi pitti, infinity
<pitti> sorry for being late, I really can't make it any earlier
<pitti> did we start already? so stgraber and slangasek sent apologies
<infinity> S'ok.  I had a bit of a siesta, and ended up dreaming about the meeting instead of attending it.
<mdeslaur> pitti: np, we haven't started or anything.
<mdeslaur> heh
<pitti> kees: you didn't reply to mdeslaur's meeting time proposal yet?
<pitti> so if Tue 17:00 doesn't work for kees, we can try the alternating
<pitti> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 12 20:12:26 2014 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pitti> (not that we have much of an agenda..)
<pitti> #topic action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: action review
<pitti> can you help me out here? last report is from Apr 14, without loose ends
<pitti> except "slangasek to work with SRU team to get a list of how the provisional MREs have/haven't been used ", but that now went to mail
<pitti> was there anything from two weeks ago?
<infinity> I think that's about the only outstanding thing we have.
<mdeslaur> I don't believe we had anything further
<infinity> That and the meeting time.
<pitti> there's also sabdfl's "matters approaching", but that rather sounds like taking some good time of thinking and replying by mail; objections?
<mdeslaur> nope
<infinity> Yeah, I don't think we'll get anywhere discussing that via IRC just yet.
<pitti> #topic MRE review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MRE review
<infinity> Some folks will be having heated debates about that in Malta soon.
<infinity> (The sabdfl thing, not MREs)
<pitti> so, TBH I don't feel like interactively discussing every single one, but we shoudl talk a bit about "in vs. out" criteria
<pitti> for all except LibO it's not quite clear whether the "new errors reported" were actual regressions or people just happened to send the first report on the update
<infinity> Right, and I think we need to know that.
<pitti> but that's hard to automate, I guess we can just ask for a list and do some spot-checks
<infinity> If it's a regresison, it's interesting, though we also expect, I think, that MRE's might introduce new bugs (new code has new bugs), and that needs to also be weighed against responsiveness of the people responsible for the MRE in responding to those.
<infinity> We don't *want* them to introduce new bugs, but we may have to be realists too.
<mdeslaur> is there anything in the list that sticks out?
<pitti> at least it seems that the entries on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions/ProvisionalStatus have all actually been used in practice
<pitti> but that is perhaps only packages which actually *have* been updated; it's by far not the complete one from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
<pitti> e. g. firefox is missing, and we update that all the time
<pitti> ah sorry, no, these are *just* the provisional ones
<infinity> The only thing that immediately jumps out at me is mesa, and it the stickiest one from the POV of "we need this for HWE" and "we know it's going to occasionally introduce new bugs".
<pitti> e. g. bug 1316988 doesn't look like a regression
<ubottu> bug 1316988 in openvswitch (Ubuntu) "openvswitch-datapath-dkms 1.4.6-0ubuntu1.12.04.2: openvswitch kernel module failed to build" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316988
<pitti> infinity: yeah, that's pretty much the only one which makes me nervous, too
<pitti> the OpenStack bits generally seem to keep their "we don't break stuff" promise
<infinity> Well, the openstack bits also get installed on machines without errors submissions, so we're relying on manual LP bug submissions there.
<pitti> e. g. ceph, heat, neutron etc. look exemplary
<pitti> ah right
<mdeslaur> oh, right
<infinity> Which is, eg, why vlc looks so bad.  Lots of people use it, and all those people are on desktops with automagic error submission.
<infinity> But I suspect almost none of the vlc errors are regressions in VLC.  I'd have to go hunting to confirm that, mind you.
 * pitti looks at bug 1189909
<ubottu> bug 1189909 in neutron "dhcp-agent does always provide IP address for instances with re-cycled IP addresses." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1189909
<pitti> I can't be sure, but at least there's no comment that suggests a regression
<infinity> FWIW, openvswitch is also an HWE issue.  They're backporting new versions to be compatible with HWE kernels.
<mdeslaur> multimedia stuff crashes all over, it would probably be hard to figure out what are actually regressions
<infinity> At the time, we argued that making the old version build would be preferable, but there were claims this ranged from difficult to impossible.
<pitti> infinity: yeah, "new errors reported: 183" is almost surely because we dno't offer the LTS->LTS upgrade before releaseing the .1
<infinity> #1316988 isn't a package regression, though, it's just a user who removed their headers.
<pitti> infinity: right
<infinity> So, none of this jumps out at me as either people who don't need their MRE (they're all being used) or people who are abusing them.
<pitti> so, so far we don't really have proof that anything actually regressed (except for LibO, I didn't go through all these bugs yet)
<pitti> and I'd rather do that ^ off-meeting
<infinity> Other than LibreOffice, which is scary as crap.
<pitti> yes, but this is also one of these packages which get bug reports all the time :)
<infinity> But for mesa, I'd like to perhaps hunt down the desktop team and get some formal commitment from them for regression tracking.
<infinity> Since I don't think we can ask them to stop updating mesa, but we don't want to blow up OpenGL desktops like GNOME and Unity.
<pitti> bug 1134974
<ubottu> bug 1134974 in mesa (Ubuntu) "compiz and other display misbehavior on HD4000 after xatracker/mesa components upgraded to 9.0.2-0ubuntu0.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1134974
<pitti> that almost surely is a regression
<mdeslaur> hrm
<pitti>  mesa | 9.0-0ubuntu1     | quantal          | source
<pitti>  mesa | 9.0.3-0ubuntu0.4 | quantal-updates  | source
<pitti> and downgrading to 9.0-0ubuntu1 fixed this
<pitti> so, one piece of (bad) proof
 * pitti chuckles at bug 1070178
<ubottu> bug 1070178 in mesa (Ubuntu) "plz hlp compiz note working " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1070178
<infinity> ...
<pitti> but #1134974 is worrying -- it didn't get any triage etc.
<infinity> Right.  And it stops mattering in 4 days, but I don't want this to be a pattern.  Those bugs need to be looked at.
<pitti> and TBH for LTSes we have the backported stacks now, and for non-LTSes, who bothers -- do we really have OEM customers on 9-month releases? that sounds scary
<pitti> so my gut feeling is that we need to inspect the LibO bugs further, revert the mesa one for the time being, and turn the others into "approved" ones
<pitti> mdeslaur, infinity: WDYT?
<infinity> pitti: The backport stacks have the same issue.  How do you think they come to exist? :P
<infinity> libgl1-mesa-dri-lts-quantal:
<infinity>   Installed: (none)
<infinity>   Candidate: 9.0.3-0ubuntu0.4~precise1
<pitti> infinity: yes, but they don't affect existing systems
<infinity> No, it's possible 9.0.3 fixed that bug (it was reported against 9.0.2), but no one's looked at it to see.
<infinity> s/No/Now/
<pitti> if you install from a X.Y.2 image and have a broken system right away, that's much less of a pain than breaking a running productino system
<infinity> pitti: They absolutely can affect existing systems.
<mdeslaur> pitti: by revert, you mean revoke it's status?
<infinity> pitti: If you installed with an lts-q stack with mesa 9.0 and upgraded to a newer backport of the stack, boom.
<pitti> infinity: yes, and I want this to stop (as that's the MRE, isn't it?)
<pitti> the backported stacks have parallel packages
<infinity> pitti: Erm.  I think we're talking past each other?
<pitti> as to what backported kernels and X.orgs do, they probably break loads of machines; but dist-upgrade won't automatically get those on existing systems
<infinity> pitti: If we revoke the MRE for mesa, we're revoking it for backport stacks too.
<infinity> pitti: Precise users would have absolutely gotten this breakage automatically.
<pitti> infinity: how so? linux/xorg/etc. don't have an MRE either, and get backported
<pitti> infinity: yes, *this* breakage from the bug above (when they upgrade precise to quantal-updates)
<pitti> that's what I'd like to stop :)
<infinity> pitti: mesa-lts-q started out in the "good" version and was later updated to match Q's new version.
<pitti> infinity: ah, because the newer upstream release was backported again?
<pitti> yes, that'd be the MRE again
<infinity> Anyhow, we do new mesa microreleases for HWE reasons too.  Waiting 6 months for a new backport stack doesn't help.
<infinity> I don't think rejecting it outright is the answer, I think the answer is a better bug triage/followup commitment.
<infinity> There's been no activity on that bug from the desktop team, nor any piling on "me toos" since 9.0.3 was released.
<pitti> well, in order to avoid regressions, you'd have to test on all hw of teh world
<infinity> My guess is that 9.0.3 fixed it, but we have no way to know, cause no one's bothered to look.
<pitti> triaging bugs after releaseing to -updates is important, but then the damage is done already
<pitti> *nod*
<infinity> But, if you want to go the more conservative route here, you're an ex-desktopper, you probably have a better handle on what'll work.
<pitti> well, it never really worked
<infinity> Heh.
<pitti> it's an eternal conflict between OEM always wanting teh latest and greatest and existing installs
<pitti> (and not having an OEM archive to go on top of that)
<infinity> I think about 99% of the things we do in the name of HWE are crazy, but we have to make some concessions for people who insist on buying new computers.
<mdeslaur> were those mesa srus done for oem's benefit, or where they to correct issues people were having?
<infinity> I doubt it was for OEM.
<infinity> Other than the part where OEM likes the latest crack.
<infinity> But bringing in mlankhorst to the discussion would be helpful.
<pitti> of course we also have -backports now which is enabled by default, so maybe that'd be a better route for these cases
<infinity> pitti: Enabled, but you don't install from it.
<infinity> pitti: Which, from an HWE perspective, is useless, and from a bugfixing perspective, is almost also so.
<pitti> infinity: right, but we own our installer, so there's little which keeps the installer from picking mesa from -backports
<pitti> but that again of course only works for the first update
<pitti> every subsequent one will again break existing machines
<pitti> so, back to square #1
<pitti> but still, from a community/TB POV this is a fail
<infinity> Right, I think we need to have a chat with Maarten, see why they think they need this MRE, if there's any way it can be done more safely, and if not, drop the whole thing.
<infinity> I'll note a new micro-release of mesa landed in trusty-proposed 9h ago. :P
<pitti> yay
<mdeslaur> heh
<pitti> ack, so we need a follow  up with the desktop team here
<pitti> I'll do that, as a bit of an apology for missing the last few meetings
<infinity> Shiny.
<pitti> ACTION: pitti to follow up with Maarten wrt. mesa MRE
<infinity> Feel free to miss more in the future, if it leads to you taking all the actions.
<pitti> can we review the LibO bugs offline and respond to the mail?
<infinity> Yeah, I think LibO is too heavy to dive into on IRC.
<pitti> and any objections for the other provisional MREs to become blessed ones?
<mdeslaur> not from me
<infinity> And also doesn't have the "HWE" excuse going for it, so if it turns out to just completely suck, I doubt anyone would argue dropping the MRE.
<infinity> I'm fine with the rest of the list.
<pitti> ack
<infinity> Maybe a quick scan through VLC crashes would be fun, but I bet it's mostly in underlying libraries and random corrupt media files, etc.
<pitti> #agreed promote provisional MREs except LibO and mesa to permanent ones
<infinity> Video playback software sucks.
<pitti> (meh, neither all-caps nor #-ed ones work; go meetingology)
<pitti> ah, right
<pitti> I smell a volunteer
<pitti> (I'll do the LibO ones in exchange)
<infinity> Yeah, I'll have a hunt through a sampling of VLC crashes to confirm (or not) my suspicions there.
<pitti> ACTION: infinity to review the vlc MRE bugs
<pitti> ACTION: pitti to review the LibO MRE bugs
<infinity> Did meetingology give up on life?
<mdeslaur> meetingology: wake up
<meetingology> mdeslaur: Error: "wake" is not a valid command.
<pitti> #halp
<infinity> Oh, that should be "#action <blah>"
<pitti> I get nothign back in privmsg
<infinity> #action pitti to follow up with Maarten wrt. mesa MRE
<meetingology> ACTION: pitti to follow up with Maarten wrt. mesa MRE
<infinity> Etc.
<pitti> yes, but #agreed didn't work either
<pitti> anyway, I don't really use that; the real IRC log is fine
<infinity> Heh.
<pitti> #topic community bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: community bugs
<pitti> zarro
<infinity> Our community is bug-free?
<pitti> nothing new on the ML either
<pitti> I privmsg'ed kees about meeting time
<pitti> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<pitti> nothing from me; infinity, mdeslaur?
<pitti> 10
<mdeslaur> nope
<pitti> 5
<infinity> I'm good.
<pitti> 0 :)
<pitti> great
<infinity> Not like we have quorum anyway. :P
<pitti> so, c'est l'heure de dormier
<pitti> thanks and good night! will do the reporting stuff tomorrow morning
<mdeslaur> thanks pitti, infinity!
<pitti> err, "dormir"
<pitti> franÃ§ais est trop difficile
<pitti> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 12 20:51:45 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-12-20.12.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-13
<matsubara> arosales, are you running the meeting today?
<arosales> matsubara: ah yes, I didn't update the minutes :-/
<matsubara> arosales, ok. I'll let you start it then. I'm next in the list :-)
<arosales> matsubara: not sure if there was going to be a meeting today with ods
<matsubara> not sure either but go ahead, should be a quiet one then.
<arosales> are any other folks here for the server team meeting?
<arosales> or are most folks at ODS?
<lutostag> I'm here, but also not sure if the meeting is supposed to happen
<arosales> would folks like to proceede?
<arosales> sounds like we have lutostag and matsubara
<matsubara> I guess it's ok to postpone if just the 3 of us
<arosales> smoser: ? jamespage ?
 * arosales is happy to have a meeting with matsubara and lutostag, may be short
<matsubara> next week should be more interesting anyway with news from ods and cloud sprint
 * arosales will start a meeting real quick to see if any folks have any items and then send out minutes
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 13 16:08:13 2014 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<arosales> looks like james had the meeting hand action done
<arosales> #topic Utopic Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Utopic Development
<arosales> nothing there atm as we are just getting kicked off
<arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<arosales> u-cycle release udpated there
<arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs
<arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<arosales> mostly for fyi since folks are out
<arosales> #subtopic Blueprints
<arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-u-servercloud-overview.html
<arosales> another fyi
<arosales> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> Nothing here, I'm good
<arosales> caribou: thanks
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<psivaa> arosales: not much of an update but looking into some lamp related precise test failures in the smoke suite
<arosales> psivaa: ack, and thanks for the update.
<arosales> psivaa: ping in #ubuntu-server if there are any bugs they need more attention than the bugs are getting
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<psivaa> arosales: ack
<sforshee> nothing from me, and smb doesn't seem to be here
<arosales> sforshee: ok and thanks
<arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<arosales> folks are at ODS :-)
<arosales> #topic Open Discussio
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussio
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
 * arosales suspects there are no topics
<arosales> lutostag: matsubara ?
<matsubara> nothing from me
<lutostag> nothing here either
<smb> arosales, Oops, seems I am late for the show. But I had nothing to report anyway
<arosales> lutostag: matsubara: smb: ok, and thanks for joining
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<arosales> Tuesday 2014-05-20 at 1600 UTC
<arosales> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 13 16:17:22 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-13-16.08.moin.txt
<matsubara> Thanks arosales
<caribou> thanks arosales
<arosales> np :-)
<arosales> now if I can remember to send minutes :-)
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 13 17:00:50 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Utopic
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<ppisati> o/
<kamal> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<chiluk> o/
<arges> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing new to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> I have reservations about BP's being the appropriate method for tracking
<ogasawara> work items as we move forward.  I've tentatively set up a discussion
<ogasawara> point for the team sprint at the end of the month to figure out a better
<ogasawara> alternative.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We are preparing to upload our first v3.15 based kernel to the Utopic
<ogasawara> archive.  We're awaiting some DKMS package fixes before doing so.  We've
<ogasawara> currently rebased to the latest v3.15-rc5 upstream kernel.
<ogasawara> Additionally, at a minimum, we will converge on the v3.16 kernel for the
<ogasawara> Utopic 14.10 release.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Mon-Wed June 9 - 11, vUDS (~4 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Jun 26 - Alpha 1 (~6 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Saucy/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Saucy/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (May. 6):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   *   Saucy - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Verification and Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 27-Apr through 17-May
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          25-Apr   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 27-Apr - 03-May   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 04-May - 10-May   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 11-May - 17-May   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 13 17:05:53 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-13-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury!
<arges> jsalisbury++
<jose> arosales: did you get to put the minutes on the wiki?
<arosales> jose: not, yet but that is my goal for today
<jose> ack
<arosales> jose I have a few meetings I am currently working on
<Silverlion> hi jono ;)
<jono> hey Silverlion
<Silverlion> jono i don't think that you remember me but we had business back in 2012 together when I was accused of espionage ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-14
<donglei> hello everyone, how to map right-alt to capslock key
<dholbach> donglei, you might want to ask in #ubuntu - this channel is for meetings only
<MooDoo> donglei: i'd ask in #ubuntu this is really for meetings
<MooDoo> donglei: jinx ;)
<MooDoo> i mean dholbach jinx :)
<dholbach> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-15
 * xnox goes to grab a coffee
 * slangasek waves
<mhall119> hello
 * mvo waves as well
 * barry wavers
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 15 15:01:48 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo)
<slangasek> barry caribou bdmurray stgraber infinity mvo jodh doko xnox slangasek cjwatson
<barry> \o/
<barry> mostly working on debian bug #732703.  i have a full working stack, discussed with debian pythonistas on various forums, and ready to be applied and uploaded.  currently writing some documentation, and then will release new debian packages for DPMT maintained packages, with bugs and diffs for non-team maintained packages.  should have all this finished today, modulo interacting with maintainers and nmus.
<ubottu> Debian bug 732703 in python3.4 "python3.4: cannot create a virtualenv" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/732703
<barry> other: patch piloted. debian bug #744300 + SRU'd to trusty.  LP: #1317660.  scripttest 1.3-1.  python-pip 1.5.5-1.
<ubottu> Debian bug 744300 in pexpect "missing dependency on dh-python" [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/744300
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1317660 in pexpect (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Bug: AttributeError: 'error' object has no attribute 'errno'" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1317660
<barry> meet with q/a folks re: system-image testing for utopic.  need to get nose2-conv packages in debian (debian bug #740195) so that i can capture coverage output for q/a dashboard.
<ubottu> Debian bug 740195 in wnpp "ITP: nose2-cov -- A coverage plugin for the nose2 Python testing framework." [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/740195
<barry> todo: triage and planning utopic work for system-image.
<barry> done
<caribou> * makedumpfile 1.5.6 now published in Debian unstable
<caribou> * Worked on adding remote kernel dump functionality to Debian/Ubuntu. Now working with SSH & NFS
<caribou> * Worked on Bug 1313602 now waiting for merge proposal
<caribou> * Started initial work for PPU application to the DMB
<ubottu> bug 1313602 in nova-cloud-controller (Juju Charms Collection) "Nova-cloud-controller charms failed to sync ssh keys between compute nodes" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313602
<caribou> done
<bdmurray> research into successfully retried retaces by the error tracker
<bdmurray> research into indicator-sound retracing failures
<bdmurray> updated the daisy retracer to be more informative when failing to retrace
<bdmurray> irc discussion regarding RecoverableProblem duplicate signatures
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 1319099 regarding whoopsie-upload-all not uploading RecoverableProblems
<ubottu> bug 1319099 in apport (Ubuntu) "whoopsie-upload-all does not upload RecoverableProblem reports" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1319099
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 1319477 regarding whoopsie-upload-all waiting period
<ubottu> bug 1319477 in apport (Ubuntu) "whoopsie-upload-all waits for crash files to upload that have failed to upload" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1319477
<bdmurray> replied to mailing list thread regarding the error tracker
<bdmurray> research into phased-update of nautilus (manually set to 100%)
<bdmurray> helped infinity tracker down errors made by the phased updater
<bdmurray> testing of whoopsie on the nexus 4
<bdmurray> reported bug 1319213 regarding android dual boot and files in /var/crash/
<ubottu> bug 1319213 in android (Ubuntu) "keeping user data keeps files in /var/crash which makes little sense" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1319213
<bdmurray> submitted apport merge proposal fixing bug 1316841
<ubottu> bug 1316841 in Daisy "apportcheckresume does not create a duplicate signature" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316841
<bdmurray> submitted merge proposal with fixes for bugs 1319099, 1316763
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 1277706 (failed?)
<bdmurray> SRU verification of apport upload to trusty-proposed
<ubottu> bug 1316763 in apport (Ubuntu Trusty) "bucketing of recoverable problems is done poorly" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316763
<ubottu> bug 1277706 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "ubiquity in precise-updates, doesn't have tight enough dependency on python-apt leading to crashers" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277706
<bdmurray> uploaded apport fix for bug 1235436
<ubottu> bug 1235436 in apport (Ubuntu) "/etc/init/apport-noui.conf is non-functional on the phone" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235436
<bdmurray> bug bot modifications for mythbuntu installer bug, flightgear upgrade failure
<bdmurray> added 13.10 iso verification code to the bug bot
<bdmurray> ran bug bot against ubiquity bugs for 13.10 isos
<bdmurray> updated pMRE report for vlc, sent email to tech board
<bdmurray> patch pilot
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> stgraber is off today, so presumably not reporting despite being in the channel
<slangasek> looks like mvo is next
<mvo> Shorter week, 2*0.5 days off
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - click: bug triage, create some feature/bugfix branches, ride the CI train for the first time (yeah!)
<mvo> - hwe-eol: work on corner cases in detection script
<mvo> - merges: look at some old-merges
<mvo> - misc: explore unity8 in the desktop
<mvo> - apt: work on abi-break branch, bugfix/ensure-optional-targets, bugfix/update-progress-reporting, bugfix for robustness on corrupted Translation-$lang files
<mvo> Todo:
<mvo> - hwe eol
<mvo> - sprint preparing
<mvo> (done)
<mvo> slangasek: no infinity today?
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
<slangasek> mvo: I've pinged him, but he's not in the channel so go ahead
<jodh>   - cgroup+async support:
<jodh>     - wrote a new test to ensure jobs not auto-started until cgmanager available.
<jodh>     - Fixed a async re-exec issue.
<jodh>     - Currently working on another re-exec issue whilst
<jodh> * other:
<jodh>   - Out tomorrow and Monday.
<jodh> ê®
<jodh> Oops! '- Currently working on another re-exec issue whilst working with xnox on async branch re-jiggling' :)
<doko> - work on GCC warning regressions PR 61106 and 61126
<doko> - work on GCC 4.8.3 updates before the upstream release
<doko> - fix gnat link issues on AArch64
<doko> - openjdk-8 packaging
<doko> (done)
<xnox> * upstart/async:
<xnox>  - completing refactoring async branch
<xnox>  - all/most code is merged into lp:upstart/async staging branch
<xnox>  - everything is synchronous in that branch at the moment, next
<xnox>  starting flipping to async process-by-process
<xnox> * gcc-4.9:
<xnox>  - trianged / sent patches for 10 FTBFS bugs
<xnox> * python2/autopilot:
<xnox>   - DONE autopilot1.5 has landed
<xnox>   - TODO camera, gallery, sudoku apps declare py3 compat in their
<xnox>   trunks, but not on the images yet.
<xnox>   - TODO make python2-autopilot depend on python2-evdev.
<xnox> * insserv/systemd:
<xnox>   - ongoing in-distro init systems improvements, e.g. UPSTART_SESSION
<xnox>   in the environment should no longer affect package
<xnox>   configuration/installation. Progressing with pitti/vorlon to enable insserv.
<xnox> * was off mon-wed
<xnox> ..
<slangasek>  * short week, out sick this past Monday
<slangasek>  * Java engineer hired, starts Monday
<slangasek>  * prepping for Malta
<slangasek>  * discussing UEFI on arm64 with the hyperscale and server teams
<slangasek>  * TODO:
<slangasek>   * look at systemd integration with nfs-utils and rpcbind (Debian bug #622394)
<ubottu> Debian bug 622394 in nfs-common "nfs-common: breaks systemd - dependency cycle in require-start leads to removal of critical jobs" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/622394
<slangasek>   * more malta prep
<slangasek> (done)
<barry> xnox: image #29 is still pulling in py2.
<cjwatson> livefs in LP:
<cjwatson>  - Worked on a scheme to pass additional arguments through.  I've uploaded the livecd-rootfs part of this, although I'm holding off on my Launchpad code for now since it probably wants separate review and isn't needed for the initial deployment.
<cjwatson>  - Finished writing browser tests and pushed https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/livefs-browser/+merge/219505.
<cjwatson>  - Got initial cdimage code working.
<cjwatson>  - Did a successful end-to-end ubuntu-touch build with local cdimage and Launchpad instances!
<cjwatson>  - Released and got webops to deploy launchpad-buildd bug fixes.
<xnox> barry: correct, as it should.
<cjwatson> A few merges.  Synced r-base, which unblocked a pile of stuff.
<cjwatson> Reviewed some of Michael's click changes, although he is currently outpacing me.  Helped with some CI Train handling.
<slangasek> xnox: why did you send patches for the gcc-4.9 bugs instead of NMUing? :)
<cjwatson> Fixed libfreehand/ppc64el FTBFS.
<cjwatson> To do before Malta: finish cdimage/Launchpad integration; experiment with autopilot on x86 emulator; respond to any LP review feedback; sort through some more of Michael's click branches
<cjwatson> ..
<xnox> slangasek: because they ain't yet RC. And i've been told off about 0-day NMU for "good" reasons, when it's "not RC yet".
<barry> xnox: hmm. didn't the ap changes to remove py2 land in #29?
<slangasek> xnox: ah, well, that's what delayed NMUs are for, then.. .but ok :)
<xnox> slangasek: joined Debian GNOME team to do "team uploads" of my pending patches. Most of gcc-ftbfs are not team managed packages =(
<slangasek> xnox: python2> what do we need to do to drive this to completion?  how do we get these apps from trunk to image?
<xnox> slangasek: i was expecting for that to just happen whilst i was away. but it didn't.
<xnox> slangasek: will poke people about it.
<slangasek> ok, cool
<ogra_> note that i just dropped the thos python2 packages in touch
<xnox> barry: so in autopilot-touch metapackage, i still explicitely hold on to py2, because i can only drop that once all clicks on the image correctly declare their py3 alignment.
<ogra_> (test image is building right now)
<ogra_> *the two
<slangasek> ogra_: so you're breaking the click apps that are still missing their py3 declarations?
<ogra_> python2-autopilot and python2-evdev
<ogra_> slangasek, i had three independed people ping me to drop these two packages today
<barry> maybe we can talk about this after the meeting?
<xnox> ogra_: you will fail autopackage tests in gallery-app, sudoku-app and camera-app. As well as breaking all the deb based python2 autopackage tests.
<ogra_> which i now did
<xnox> ogra_: well, you should talk to TIL first.
<ogra_> robru even with high urgency
<ogra_> referring to barry
<slangasek> ok, deep topic, let's take this out of the meeting :)
 * ogra_ is in meetings for the next 2h and then gone 
<slangasek> but we definitely should not be pulling python2 off the images before the click packages are all resolved per https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/core-1311-python3-roadmap
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else here?
<slangasek> everyone ready for the sprint?
 * mvo nods
<doko> GCC bug squashing tomorrow and Saturday!
<slangasek> reminder to put sprint agenda items on https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuEngineering/Sprints/ClientSprint-May2014/Foundations please
<doko> yep
<slangasek> ok then
<slangasek> short meeting - thanks all, now let's get the python sorted on the phone images :0
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 15 15:21:55 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-15-15.01.moin.txt
<mvo> thanks
<jodh> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<caribou> thanks
<valorie> hi pen
<pleia2> o/
<s-fox> o/
<pleia2> #startmeeting Community Council
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 15 17:01:09 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:
 * pleia2 rounds up usual suspects
<mhall119> o/
<s-fox> o/
<valorie> hi lyz, michael
<elfy> o/
<pleia2> #chair elfy cprofitt dholbach czajkowski
<meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt czajkowski dholbach elfy pleia2
<Pendulum> Hiya :)
<dholbach> hiza
<pleia2> #chair mhall119
<meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt czajkowski dholbach elfy mhall119 pleia2
<pleia2> there we go
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mhall119> oh, that was unexpected
<mhall119> oh, we're all chair, ok then
<mhall119> who's up first?
<pleia2> so first up on our agenda is Membership Board
<pleia2> #topic Membership Board catch up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic: Membership Board catch up
<pleia2> I see Pendulum and s-fox here from the board, anyone else?
<Pendulum> IdleOne might be coming (I've just poked him to check)
<mhall119> good to see you again Pendulum, haven't chatted with you in a long time :)
<dholbach> how have things been going on the Membership Board? :)
<s-fox> Generally okay, few items we'd like to go over with the cc though
<Pendulum> In general things have been pretty good.
<pleia2> shall we talk about quorum?
<cjohnston> oh hi
<mhall119> yeah, quorum seemed to be the biggest obstacle
<s-fox> sure,  okay
<mhall119> that is, membeship meeting without enough people to actually vote on the applicants
<Pendulum> In general, I think that's been improving.
<cjohnston> I don't think that's the issue.. I think the issue is how many votes are required for an approval
<s-fox> it has been improving, but we're finding it hard to decide if someone is approved or not.
<mhall119> cjohnston: that's really dependent on how many people are there to vote though
<dholbach> some of us were chatting a bit about it since you last brought it up, and I can't remember who brought up the idea, but one approach we talked about was that we could ask applicants to hand in their application earlier (let's say a few days), so members of the board who can't make it could send in their vote by mail
<s-fox> for example if everyone votes +0 and then someone goes +1 it is technically approved.
<s-fox> it just doesn't look right with the lack of support
<dholbach> another idea was that if there weren't enough members of the board around to make a decision during the meeting, the vote could be taken to mail
<dholbach> ... which is what the DMB has been doing
<cjohnston> If we do the voting by mail, we might as well not have meetings and just do all voting by mail
<Pendulum> We have been moving applications when there isn't quorum to e-mail
<dholbach> the advantage of both ideas is that we wouldn't get into voting arithmetics :)
<mhall119> so let's tackle these one at a time, quorum first then what technically consitutes approval
<mhall119> Pendulum: so the voting and discussions continue over email after the meeting?
<dholbach> cjohnston, I disagree - it's always worth having a chat and resolving questions which might be not answered on the wiki
<Pendulum> mhall119: If there isn't quorum it does
<pleia2> cjohnston: no, DMB still has public meetings so people can apply in public and everything is recorded
<cjohnston> dholbach: in that case, the people who have already voted have voted without those answers
<mhall119> Pendulum: out of the number of times the discussion and voting went to email, how often was a final vote taken?
<dholbach> cjohnston, some might already know that person, etc
<cjohnston> It could sway my vote, but was never given the opportunity to sway someone elses vote
<pleia2> cjohnston: afaik on list voting happens after the meeting
<elfy> pleia2: +1
<cjohnston> pleia2: that wasn't dholbach's suggestion
<Pendulum> mhall119: I think we have had final votes on all of them. Very few in those situations have been rejected
<mhall119> ok, so that's been effective then, that's good to hear
<Pendulum> We do have some meetings where a member who isn't going to make it has let us know in advance either on IRC or the mailing list what their vote would be.
<Pendulum> We also, I think, have really mostly been making qorum
<mhall119> cjohnston: dholbach was suggesting votes via email as a fallback when you can't attend the meeting, not at the preferred method
<dholbach> mhall119, thanks for clarifying this
<mhall119> and it sounds like that's already been happening
<s-fox> Things have improved a lot in recent meetings, especially with regards to voting on the mailing list in advance if you are likely to be able to unattend
<pleia2> so it sounds like quorum typically isn't the issue, mostly it's a numbers thing, if quorum to hold a meeting is 4 does three +1s and one -1 equal approval
<IdleOne> here
<Pendulum> My impression is that it's the 12:00 UTC board that is having more problem, but that may just be due to my being on that board :) (the members who never show on that board are among those expiring at the end of the month)
<Pendulum> pleia2: exactly
<mhall119> so do we need to officially endorse email votes as a fallback, or can we just say "carry on" with doing it?
<cjohnston> "ask applicants to hand in their application earlier (let's say a few days), so members of the board who can't make it could send in their vote by mail"  what is the point of turning them in earlier if the voting doesn't start until later?
<cjohnston> mhall119: ^
<elfy> cjohnston: so people have longer time to read them
<pleia2> cjohnston: I read that as voting by mail after the meeting, not before
<cjohnston> then they don't need to turn them in earlier.
<mhall119> cjohnston: shouldn't applicants already submit their application early enough for board members to review before the meeting?
<cjohnston> I believe there already is a requirement
<elfy> currently it's 24 hours on the wiki
<pleia2> so they have time to read app, read meeting, send in vote; I think the only time there would be an exception is if they know something specific about the applicant that would make them reject them regardless
<mhall119> so then there's no change to what's happening, just making what's happening officially approved
<Pendulum> that sounds good to me :)
<s-fox> i do a review roughly 3 or 4 days before the meeting in my own time.  i have been known to be a slow reader and also be sure i understand the applicant
<mhall119> pleia2: or when they would approve them regardless
<pleia2> mhall119: yeah
<pleia2> anyway, quorum
<pleia2> my impression was always that it was 4 to hold a meeting, then a majority of those folks had to +1
<mhall119> a majority had to vote +1, or the the final tally had to be >= +1?
<cjohnston> We all agree on the 4.. it's the latter part as mhall119 says
<pleia2> majority had to vote +1
<IdleOne> so +3-1 would be approved?
<mhall119> or a minimum of 4 +1's regardless of final tally
<pleia2> but when I was on the board it wasn't usually an issue because we had a back channel where we typically came to a consensus
<pleia2> if someone felt really strongly about a -1, we all took that pretty seriously
<cjohnston> we end up with +0 and +1 normally in this situation
<Pendulum> In most cases we do come to consensus
<mhall119> cjohnston: is that because of a lot of +0s, or because of a balance of +1 and -1?
<s-fox> Unless I am mistaken we had an applicant who was technically approved on the 22:00 UTC meeting but we were concerned by lack of +1's from the board and went to the mailing list.  Can any of the board remember who it was?
<cjohnston> so is 2 +0's and 2 +1's approved?
<cjohnston> s-fox: are you refereing to the Canonical employee?
<pleia2> cjohnston: a majority of 4 would mean 3 :)
<IdleOne> We do have a back channel. The question in my mind is do we need a majority in favor regardless of the number of voting members. or do we need a minimum of positive votes
<mhall119> if the rule is "majority of votes are +1" then 4 votes would require 3 +1s
<s-fox> No cjohnston , i think it was after that.
<cjohnston> pleia2: I understand majority.. but that wasn't the only thing thrown out
<sabdfl> hi folks, sorry to be late
<pleia2> welcome sabdfl
<s-fox> hello
<mhall119> it seems there was some confusion as to what the actual rule on approval was
<mhall119> hi sabdfl
<shadeslayer> hiya, sorry I was late
<elfy> hi shadeslayer sabdfl
<cjohnston> mhall119: correct. and that's what we need defined
<mhall119> pleia2: so the rule is "majority of votes are +1", regardless of final tally, and a quorom of 4, is that correct?
<pleia2> mhall119: that's always been my understanding
<mhall119> so 3 or more +1s, depending on how many votes are cast
<elfy> that would make sense to me
<s-fox> The bot does give a verdict for us, but sometimes it just feels wrong.
<mhall119> then we should put this in writing somewhere
<s-fox> Can the bot be reworked?
<IdleOne> yes it can
<pleia2> I think the bot does math, becasue that's how some teams do it
<IdleOne> !meetingology
<ubottu> meetingology is a bot that runs !meetings and produces minutes - information at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> ubottu: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
<mhall119> lol
<mhall119> bot fight
<dholbach> ok... shall we talk about the nominations as well?
<mhall119> can we tell meeting-ology about the decisions so far recarding quorum and approval rules?
<mhall119> so it's in the minutes
<Pendulum> mhall119: it says there's a way to tell it a minimum number of +1s to pass
<mhall119> Pendulum: the bot does?
<elfy> Pendulum: per session?
<mhall119> ah, yes, # votesrequired, nice
<IdleOne> the bot has a command to set #requiredvotes
<mhall119> Pendulum: you just have to know how many votes will be cast ahead of time and calculate the majority value
<cjohnston> so I just want to be clear.. to be approved it is 1/2 of the voters +1, correct?
<cjohnston> mhall119: ^
<IdleOne> that is not the issue though, what we would like defined is what that number is
<mhall119> cjohnston: 50%+1
<cjohnston> ack
<s-fox> can this be tested with the bot?
<pleia2> s-fox: yep, #meetingology is the playground for that
<mhall119> does anybody mind if I tell the bot about what's been agreed to so far about getting quorum via email votes when it's not achieved in the meeting?
<pleia2> mhall119: please do
<mhall119> #agreed when quorum is not reached in a meeting, votes can continue via email until quorum is reached
 * mhall119 assumes the bot got that
<pleia2> yeah, it doesn't echo anymore
<mhall119> now, on that note, does voting via email automatically stop when quorum is reached?
<s-fox> Would you like us to test and come back to the CC, or is this something you will be looking into yourself ?
<pleia2> mhall119: I'd say so
<mhall119> pleia2: that wouldn't allow everybody to vote then
<pleia2> mhall119: nope, it's as it's always been
<IdleOne> We can set a time limit for email voting
<IdleOne> 1 week?
<elfy> IdleOne: that works for me
<mhall119> if there are 3 people at the meeting, there is no quorum, so it goes to email, then the very next person to vote would end the voting
<pleia2> I like seeing folks walk away from a meeting with an answer, not wait on email voting unless there is an issue
<dholbach> agreed
<elfy> pleia2: that's ideal - but not what always happens
<mhall119> dholbach: agreed to which?
<dholbach> mhall119, sorry, what pleia2 said before
<pleia2> elfy: hence "unless there isan issue" :)
<mhall119> pleia2: I think we're all on the same page there, the preference is to have quorum at the meeting and give people a yes or no answer then and there
<mhall119> the question now is how to handle where there isn't quorum at the meeting
<elfy> then it goes to e-mail
<pleia2> I think typically the meeting isn't held if there isn't quorum, or they grab CC members to fill in
<mhall119> if there are, say, 3 board members who are absent and it goes to email, do we wait for all 3 to vote or do we end voting as soon as quorum is reached and the others don't get a chance?
<dholbach> speaking of going to email: shall we move some of the discussion to mail? I'm just raising this because we're meeting up with the kubuntu folks today as well
<IdleOne> mhall119: I think the best thing is to set a time limit on the email voting. Those members who get the vote in on time get counted.
<pleia2> IdleOne: but only if there isn't quorum at the meeting, right?
<Pendulum> pleia2: correct
<elfy> mhall119: if it goes to e-mail I see no reason why not just wait the week as IdleOne suggests and use all the votes
<IdleOne> correct
<pleia2> wfm
<elfy> and me
<dholbach> cool :)
<IdleOne> if there is quorum (4 voting members) at the meeting there is no need for email votes
<pleia2> great
<mhall119> #agreed if voting goes to email for quorum, board members will be given a deadline of one week to cast their vote
<mhall119> can I note down the approval rule as agreed to?
<mhall119> "majority of votes cast must be +1"?
<IdleOne> please do
<pleia2> so the other thing with membership boards should be pretty quick - we don't have enough applicants for the spaces available on the boards
<dholbach> it looks like we're lacking some nominations for the 12UTC meetings, so it probably might make sense to extend the time on the board for the expiring members and have another call for help? maybe ask the EMEA people on the loco contacts list?
 * pleia2 nods
<mhall119> #agreed applicants are approved when a majority of votes cast are +1, regardless of the final total, as long as quorum is reached
<Pendulum> Quite honestly, only 1 of the expiring members on 12UTC has shown up for meetings for at least a year
<pleia2> :\
<dholbach> Pendulum, is the time popular among applicants?
<pleia2> that time zone region has always been tough to staff
<s-fox> I tried to stimulate getting this resolved by changing the time.  It was generally not received well and people were saying they would struggle even more.
<Pendulum> Part of what happened is that most of the 12UTC board is actually people on the East Coast of the US. So moving it earlier makes it more difficult for us, but moving it later means that the A/O folks can't make it
<mhall119> is it worth having a 12UTC board then?
<Pendulum> My impression was that when we had 3 boards and that one met at 10UTC, there was even more trouble reaching quorum than we have at 12UTC
<mhall119> if it's difficult for the board, surely it's difficult for applicants too
<s-fox> It is a shame that time is in the middle of the working day in europe.
<Pendulum> We do get applicants who would not be able to make 22UTC
<elfy> mhall119: I think that it's more that it's difficult to get the board there rather than applicants from what I've seen
<Pendulum> exactly
<pleia2> mhall119: we want more APAC applicants, I fear removing the board spot would make it harder for them and prepetuate the imbalance
<s-fox> We have never had a problem with applicants. the list is usually well populated
<elfy> s-fox: thanks
<s-fox> the problem is the board voting.
<Pendulum> I do think we've gotten better with getting quorum for 12UTC
<mhall119> and is that because it's in the middle of their work day and they can't attend?
<mhall119> or too early in the morning/late at night to attend?
<dholbach> can we try to mail locos in those regions?
<Pendulum> mhall119: it's more because it's either really early or really late. I don't think there's anyone from EMEA on that board
<pleia2> dholbach: that's what I'm thinking
<dholbach> ok... I'll send a mail to the CC and membership board to organise this
<Pendulum> I'm not actually sure if there are many, if any, EMEA folks on either board these days.
<Pendulum> dholbach: thank you :)
<pleia2> dholbach: thanks :)
<s-fox> I would look to get myself put  on that board, except it conflicts with my work day
<mhall119> is there anything else for membership boards, before we run out of time to sync with kubuntu folks?
<valorie> thank you, mhall119
<s-fox> Pendulum,  i think this is the time to mention the renewals
<Pendulum> mhall119: That's it :)
<pleia2> #agreed extend nomination period for membership boards so we can reach out to locos to find more for 1200 slot
<s-fox> lol
<dholbach> I'd like to thanks everyone on the Membership Boards for their hard working and stepping in when other board members couldn't make it. It's fun to get to chat with aspiring Ubuntu members, but it's also hard to make a decision. So thanks a lot everyone! :)
<pleia2> #topic Kubuntu catch up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic: Kubuntu catch up
<yofel> o/
<valorie> \o/
<valorie> hi folks, we took notes in advance of this meeting: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/CCmeeting
<dholbach> hello everyone!
<mhall119> yay notes!
<valorie> however I can put in the items one at a time so they are here in the backlog
<valorie> first, thank you for asking to catch up with us
<valorie> it's lovely to meet with y'all
<valorie> so, since we last met, we've encountered some issues. Summing up:
<shadeslayer> heya
<valorie> Since last year, the threats of legal action against Mint and other derivative distributions have upset our community. We were disappointed in the reaction of the CC -- it seemed to us that the CC was just doing as Canonical directed, rather than work with Mint to bring them into the community.
<valorie> comments?
<mhall119> first I'd like to say that the CC intesely discussed this for months trying to A) understand it and B) come to consensus on it
<valorie> we don't expect a change, frankly
<valorie> but we're disappointed about that
<mhall119> it's a complex issue that has little to do with technology or community, and a lot to do with vague legal precedence and laws
<valorie> from our pov, legal issues never had to come into it, if a friendly hand had been extended
<mhall119> extended to whom?
<valorie> the mint community
<mhall119> I believe the Mint community is statisfied with what was offered and how it was offered
<valorie> cool
<mhall119> we never heard anything from them, despite multiple requests for their input on the subject
<valorie> I don't want to bang on about this, but as far as we know, their first contact was vague legal threats
<mhall119> speaking personally, I requested advice on this subject for Qimo and was given a similar trademark usage license from Canonical
<valorie> rather than friendliness
<shadeslayer> I'm still quite fuzzy on how this works for ubuntu derivatives btw, does this mean trademarks are enforcable on packages just because the version has the string "ubuntu" in it?
<mhall119> valorie: we know there were many contacts, and again we never heard anything back from the mint community on it
<pleia2> we don't have control over what Canonical legal did, we didn't even know about this until after and thats when we attempted many times to make friendly contact
<valorie> well, you are already rather friendly with ubuntu and canonical michael!
<mhall119> shadeslayer: no, it's much more complex and legally than that
<pleia2> we really did the best we could, for months, it was agonizing
<mhall119> valorie: doesn't matter to the legal team :)
<shadeslayer> or does this only extend to art assets and code specifically from Canonical which can be mis interpreted as being representative of the ubuntu trademark
<valorie> pleia2: yeah, we realize that
<shadeslayer> mhall119: oh my :(
<valorie> anyway, water under the bridge
<mhall119> the tl;dr of the whole story is that Mint was on questionable legal grounds with what they were doing, and the license offered to them firmed that up for them
<valorie> OK. next item: We continue to feel apprehension over Wayland/Mir situation, which has brought the Ubuntu brand into controversy, and has caused a lot of bad feelings from our upstream. We hope for peace and technical excellence.
<shadeslayer> mhall119: okay, does this also extend to other ubuntu derivatives?
<shadeslayer> or was it something specific to Mint
<pleia2> we can make our input known to Canonical, and they do typically respond to us, but at the end of the day Canonical owns the trademarks and handles the legal team
<valorie> sorry, shadeslayer
<pleia2> shadeslayer: as mhall119 said, his distro also approached legal and got a similar agreement offer
<mhall119> shadeslayer: it depends on whether what they are doing falls under an existing license grant or not
<shadeslayer> so anyone who doesn't sign the license grant could potentially face legal action?
<mhall119> for Qimo, because we weren't just a remix of packages in the archives, we didn't get the existing grant that covered the archives
<dholbach> valorie, are there specific technical points right now which are seen as problematic right now and should be raised anywhere?
<valorie> oh, technical -- you are asking the wrong person
<shadeslayer> or am I mis interpreting :)
<mhall119> shadeslayer: Canonical isn't sueing people over this, we're giving them a cheap or free license that guarntees that we can't sue them over it
<valorie> right now, things are OK
<valorie> Mir isn't released
<dholbach> valorie, or anything concrete which needs to be resolved right now?
<shadeslayer> mhall119: roger
<valorie> dholbach: as I understand it, as long as there is a libwayland
<sabdfl> shadeslayer, yes, it does, which is why we have the remix framework to support people doing pretty much what they want
<sabdfl> in other words, we went to a lot of trouble to enable freedom of remixing, both legally and in practice with supporting tools, processes and resources
<valorie> we'll be fine
<mhall119> IIRC, there was some technical concerns about how we would support both Mir and Wayland compositors on the same system, especially if Mir was also running as a system-level-compositor
<ScottK> The technical point re Mir is really about Wayland support.
<shadeslayer> re Mir situation, I think the big concerns are patching things like mesa, drivers and how difficult/easy will it be for Kubuntu and KDE to use wayland since that's what our upstream is pushing for
<mhall119> with the move to SystemD and logind, I'm not sure if we're still going to have a system-level compositor or not, but that's out of scope for this meeting anyway
<valorie> yes, I can only speak for the community concerns
<ScottK> If Wayland doesn't work well, we're in trouble.
<shadeslayer> right ^^
<valorie> I don't like the tone of the controversy
<dholbach> in any case we'd be happy to help bring people to a table together to resolve these technical issues and find solutions
<mhall119> ScottK: so is the concern over the amount of support and QA we'll give Wayland?
<valorie> and it has made things touchy with our upstream people
<sabdfl> we have very pointedly not been going around threatening people with legal action
<sabdfl> however, we also would not be serving the community interest by failing to point out the rules of the community itself
<sabdfl> we all feel good when the GPL is enforced, that depends on amongst other things respect for laws and rights
<mhall119> as far as I know, there's nothing to stop KDE and Kubuntu from using a Wayland compositor on Ubuntu
<ScottK> And the degree to which distro patches for Mir support hurt Wayland or upstream willingness to consider issues on our platform.
<valorie> that sounds good, and I'm hoping for the best
<mhall119> ScottK: distro patches to what?
<dholbach> ScottK, are there current technical issues you're aware of? or is this about potential issues in the future?
<ScottK> Mesa etc.
<sabdfl> ScottK, you can count on us to go beyond even reasonable lengths to accommodate alternative views of the world
<ScottK> Potential.
<mhall119> ScottK: so what exactly is the concern, than an upstream will refuse Mir patches, and they refuse to support KDE on a system that carries those patches?
<sabdfl> in other words, we are not going to prejudice something on Wayland just because we like Mir
<dholbach> I think I speak for us all, that if there's ever a concrete issue regarding, the CC will be happy to help bring the right people together to find a solution
<sabdfl> we have always managed to cross these bridges between the people who cared and were willing to do the work
<yofel> dholbach: it's mostly that we would like people to be aware that no matter how well mir shold be integrated at least we'll need a system where mir stays out of the way, and the next CC/Kubuntu meeting will likely be after the time where issues might pop up
<mhall119> yeah, I think we can firmly state that both Mir and Wayland should be fully supported in Ubuntu, and if for any reason they are not then action should be taken (by the CC or others as appropriate) to correct that
<mhall119> ScottK: so, tl;dr, Wayland compositors will not be treated like second-class citizens in Ubuntu
<dholbach> yofel, if you are that concerned about a specific future issue, we should probably discuss it at the next UDS
<sabdfl> mhall119, modulo that you can't bind others to do the work, you could reasonably say it would be anti-social to BLOCK someone doing the work
<dholbach> sorry, UOS
<dholbach> which is just in a few weeks
<ScottK> It's s challenge for Kubuntu because we've always leveraged Canonical work on the display stack and it's going to get harder for us to an unknown degree.  That's good to hear.
<mhall119> sabdfl: yes, and also we can encourage people do help do the work
<valorie> which brings me to our next point: we are missing our face-to-face UDS meetings with the rest of the Ubuntu community. Last year and again this year we've arranged a Kubuntu meeting at the KDE yearly meeting, Akademy. Last year we met in Bilbao, this year it will be held in Brno, in the Czech Republic. However, we really miss being able to touch base with the rest of the Ubuntu community.
<dholbach> 10th â 12th June 2014
<mhall119> valorie: I think we all miss that
<sabdfl> valorie, we miss you too!
<valorie> Brno is beautiful, I hear.....
<valorie> :-)
<sabdfl> :)
<czajkowski> valorie: as is everyone also :)
<sabdfl> i'll be called to another commitment shortly, here's an update on the legal front
<shadeslayer> ofcourse, open invitation to anyone who wants to come and help kubuntu btw ;)
<yofel> dholbach: ok, thanks, we'll try to bring things up there too so it's not forgotten :)
<czajkowski> Czech should be nice :)
<dholbach> yofel, rock and roll! :)
<sabdfl> we've worked through our public trademark, copyright and patent policy with SFLC
<sabdfl> we will make some clarifications based on their advice
<shadeslayer> sabdfl: sounds excellent :D
<shadeslayer> much appreciated
<yofel> that'll be great :)
<valorie> ok, on to the present
<sabdfl> the exact position of who can assert what is not simplistic - it varies a lot based on package, license, toolchain, jurisdiction
<valorie> We have our own webserver now, at Kubuntu.co.uk. Kubuntu.org will be moved there soon.
<valorie> we hope
<valorie> still in the moving and testing phase
<sabdfl> when folks have made sweeping assertions about "what can be claimed" they are quite obviously not aware of that complexity
<shadeslayer> sabdfl: I think that's primarily because things were quite vague in the beginning
<sabdfl> the net position is this: if you are making a binary derivative of Ubuntu, including lots / most of the packages and pointing to Ubuntu repo's, you do in practice need to have an agreement with Canonical
<ScottK> People also get can and should mixed up.
<sabdfl> we have made a "public agreement" in the form of the remix guidelines
<mhall119> valorie: will you be able to migrate your wiki docs to the new server?
<sabdfl> that says "join the project and work in the archive and you can pretty much do what you want just call it a remix"
<sabdfl> that's got good social karma - participate and benefit
<valorie> mhall119: we're now using the KDE wikis to develop our user docs, and some community wiki pages. Moin moin is just not reliable. We've gained some more translations this way for the documentation. We ran out of people who were experts in Docbook, which is why we started using the MM wiki. http://userbase.kde.org/Kubuntu is for writing; when docs are done they are moved to the website.
<sabdfl> Mint took the view that they did not have to contribute, breaking the social contract
<valorie> that's what we did for Trusty and it worked ~pretty well
<mhall119> ok
<shadeslayer> re moin moin not being reliable, this is what I get when I tried to login today : http://imgur.com/Mcpajig
<sabdfl> it's important for us to be clear that this is not acceptable, for me, or hopefully for anybody else too
<valorie> moinmoin just got harder and harder to use
<mhall119> shadeslayer: ew, openid errors, that's not good
<mhall119> shadeslayer: did you file a bug?
<valorie> which is what we used for saucy
<shadeslayer> mhall119: not yet, I just got it when I tried to use it after a long time today :P
<czajkowski> sabdfl: thank you for the clarification
<dholbach> shadeslayer, valorie: it might be worth raising this in #canonical-sysadmin as well
<valorie> yes, we've filed some tickets with them
<shadeslayer> mhall119: But it's just a pain to use with all it's timeouts and what not, the KDE MediaWiki instances is such a breeze to use :)
<ScottK> sabfl: Will you define what contribute means?
<sabdfl> nonetheless, we didn't exactly beat Mint over the head with a lawyer, we asked them to sign an agreement that would enable them to keep doing what they do without contributing, though it did limit commercial activity
<ScottK> I think it shouldn't be just about packages.
<shadeslayer> mhall119: which is primarily we now house documentation and policies there
<sabdfl> ScottK, upload to the archive, build from there
<ScottK> We had one derivative sponsor a sprint.
<mhall119> ScottK: mint has a lot of packages that don't get submitted to the archives, and changes to packages without those changes being submitted to the archive
<czajkowski> valorie: shadeslayer can we  follow what sabdfl is sayig right now and come back to wiki in a moment
<sabdfl> and ScottK we have traditionally been generous in interpreting that, because sometimes you can't strictly build from the archive even if you are generally contributing / uploading there
<czajkowski> it's getting lost in the conversation
<shadeslayer> ok
<sabdfl> Mint is not doing this. There have been a fewother MUCH BIGGER companies that tried to do the same thing
<ScottK> Right.  I'm not too worried about Mint per se.
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> i am sure we'll work something out with Mint
<ScottK> We have a derivative that wanted 12.04 plus current KDE.
<mhall119> ScottK: it's impossible to make one blanket statement when there are so many ways for derivatives to operate, we cover the specifics we can clearly define (pure remixes) and take others on a case-by-case basis (Mint and Qimo)
<ScottK> Can't do that in the archive.
<sabdfl> but it would help if there were a wider appreciation for the fact that Mint are fundamentally outside our social constructs
<ScottK> It'd be nice if that kind of derivation were clearly allowed.
<mhall119> ScottK: again though, "that kind" isn't a specific enough definition to give a license grant to
<sabdfl> ScottK, we do allow for it in practice, we've never even raised an issue with folks doing an external build of stuff the way you describe
<sabdfl> especially if "current KDE" is in a PPA or the main archive
<sabdfl> in other words, if other members of the community can benefit from it
<sabdfl> ok, have been called away
<mhall119> ScottK: the question isn't "what is allowed", it's "what is covered under an existing grant"
<ScottK> Agreed, but absent that understanding the discussion about Mint concerns others.
<elfy> sabdfl: thanks :)
<sabdfl> cheers
<dholbach> I will need to rush out now as well. Thanks a lot everyone!
<mhall119> ScottK: there was a fair amount of fear-mongering around that issue too, nobody was up in arms about Qimo needing a similar grant :)
<mhall119> we're 10 minutes over time, is there anything else before we wrap up?
<valorie> well, Peppermint is for sale; you don't sell Qimo
<valorie> yes, I was trying to finish....
<mhall119> valorie: depends on how much you're offering :)
<valorie> final present point: We are wondering about the state of donations. On the donations page, a report is promised, but we've not seen one, and none are linked to. http://community.ubuntu.com/help-information/funding/
<czajkowski> valorie: pleia2 has asked Jono for this
<czajkowski> we'll ask him again for it.
<mhall119> as have I, and I will ask him again
<valorie> so far, when we've asked for funding, we've gotten it
<jono> my apologies, I will get this out this week
<shadeslayer> ^^ Thanks alot for that
<czajkowski> a lot of people are asking about it so it would be good for once and for all to get a post out about it
<mhall119> thank you jono!
<shadeslayer> \o/
<valorie> so this isn't a complaint, just an ask for a report
<czajkowski> jono: thank you!
<jono> terribly sorry for the delay
<valorie> cool
<czajkowski> jono: no worries we understand
<jono> thanks
<shadeslayer> yep :)
<czajkowski> valorie: I'm glad to hear though people use it
<valorie> as for the future: Discussing how to handle KDE's new Frameworks and Plasma Next. In 14.10 we'll be rather conservative, and offer the newest stuff being released this summer in PPA. We may be able to spin an ISO of this software; we are still pondering our best path forward.
<elfy> jono: thanks - with my Xubuntu hat on too ;)
<czajkowski> it seems some people still don't know about it existing
<shadeslayer> czajkowski: it's been immensly useful
<jono> elfy, :-)
<mhall119> valorie: bringing that back around, if anybody in the Kubunu community needs sponsorship to attend Akademy to represent Kubuntu, they can apply for that
<valorie> I've done so!
<valorie> \o/
<mhall119> valorie: "newest stuff" being KDE stuff or Qt stuff?
<valorie> both
<shadeslayer> especially seeing how plasma next and frameworks will have short cadence cycles to get things stabalized initially, we'll have to figure out how that plays with the Ubuntu archive policy
<mhall119> are Kubuntu and the SDK teams talking to each other to sync up on Qt dependencies?
<valorie> we're sort of doing this one step at a time
<valorie> mhall119: I think ScottK just wrote about that
<shadeslayer> mhall119: we are working with the ubuntu team in general, ScottK sent an email to discuss having 5.3 in Utopic
<mhall119> ok
<ScottK> mhall119: Not very effectively so far.
<mhall119> the SDK in particular should be involved in that discussion too
<ScottK> We'll see how it goes
<ScottK> We had a session last UDS.
<mhall119> ScottK: let me know if you need me to grease any wheels there
<czajkowski> ScottK: is there any way we can help imrprove that ?
<mhall119> the SDK team just *loves* hearing me ask for more things :)
<ScottK> Someone answer the mail I sent to u-devel (although I didn't check today if someone already did).
<yofel> I haven't seen one either
<shadeslayer> not that I'm aware of ^^
<mhall119> also, FWIW, I made a website to combine Qt API docs with Ubuntu UI Toolkit API docs: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-api-website which the KDE and/or Kubuntu projects are welcome to use if they want to do something similar
<elfy> ScottK: I've not seen a reply to the mail
<ScottK> We'd use the upstream Qt5 docs.
<shadeslayer> mhall119: fwiw one of my colleague's who's working on plasma components is quite impressed with Ubuntu's Qt components, so kudos for that :)
<mhall119> shadeslayer: I saw on G+ :)
<shadeslayer> ;)
<mhall119> even had the performance metrics widget ported
<valorie> mhall119: you might follow the frameworks folks after awhile -- they may save you some work
<shadeslayer> yep
<ScottK> But it doesn't help the FOSS ecosystem until it's upstream.
<ScottK> Gotta go.
<mhall119> ok, is that a wrap then?
 * valorie needs to go as well
<valorie> thank again for asking us to catch up
<mhall119> thanks everyone
<valorie> thanks, I mean
<yofel> pretty much all from us for now
<mhall119> and keep up the fantastic work
<pleia2> thanks for bringing up these issues in such an organized way, hooray for wiki prep :)
<yofel> thanks everyone for the time
<valorie> :-)
<shadeslayer> cheers :), have a fun evening
<mhall119> you can always ping us anytime if one of these issues need more immediate attention from us
<elfy> thanks everyone :)
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<mhall119> or email rather, that would be better
<pleia2> real quick, anything else?
<mhall119> not from me
<elfy> nor me
<pleia2> ok, thanks everyone :)
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 15 18:22:10 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-15-17.01.moin.txt
<mhall119> dang, doesn't look like my #agreed did anything
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-11
<xnox> horum?
<bdmurray> xnox: hello
<cyphermox> xnox: you mean oh-hum?
<Laney> hohoho
<xnox> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> cyphermox, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<xnox> are we all OK with the Community Council randevouz date?
 * stgraber waves
<ScottK> \o
<xnox> *rendezvous
<ScottK> No idea, really.
<cyphermox> June 4th, 17:30 UTC
<xnox> ah, thanks. One of my calendars had it, but couldn't find it.
<stgraber> well, hopefully someone from the DMB will be online at the time
<Laney> 4th June 17:30
<Laney> I've done the last few of those meetings so please someone else volunteer
<xnox> I have volleyball trainings starting at 18:00 UTC so I'll be for about half an hour... Hopefully not driving.
<cyphermox> that's a thursday apparently
<micahg> I'll add it to my calendar
<xnox> althought being on IRC whilst in London traffic is not actually dangerous.
<xnox> anyway, i don't have anything else to ponder about. I guess we can go back to attending usual things.
<Laney> um
<Laney> we probably owe N_oskcaj feedback
<cyphermox> xnox: think about all the danger you could avoid with a Google Glass, Ubuntu phone, and speech-to-text. :)
<micahg> Laney: yes, been working on that
<Laney> if those of you that voted +0/-1 could please set up a pad to write a document
<Laney> it would be helpful to him
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<jjohansen> \o
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 11 16:38:08 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Thanks to Jonathan Riddell (Riddell) and Felix Geyer (debfx) for help on security updates for the community supported quassel (LP: #1448911) last week. Another thanks to Felix for unrar-nonfree (LP: 1451260). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1448911 in quassel (Ubuntu Wily) "Execute initDbSession() on DB reconnects" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448911
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1451260 in unrar-nonfree (Ubuntu Utopic) "Directory traversal vulnerability" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1451260
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> this week I'm going to work with tyhicks on identifying and prioritizing our work backlog
<chrisccoulson> hi
<jdstrand> I'm also continuing to work on the review tools wrt snappy
<jdstrand> and prodding the seccomp SRU along. related to that, will be discussing snappy stable updates with other teams
<jdstrand> if I have time, I'll pick up the seccomp policy updates and mechanism for applying them on upgrades
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> and I'm working on some updates
<mdeslaur> I just released libtasn1 and icu updates
<mdeslaur> I also have an embargoed issue to work on
<mdeslaur> that's it from me, sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week.
<sbeattie> I need to finish my wily apparmor upload after syncing up some changes from the debian packaging.
<sbeattie> I also need to push my trusty apparmor SRU
<sbeattie> (just need to do the SRU paperwork there)
<tyhicks> great!
<sbeattie> still need to push on gcc-pie stuff
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for this week
<tyhicks> sbeattie: you mentioned an rsyslog SRU in last week's meeting - is that still needed?
<mdeslaur> the rsyslog SRU is done
<sbeattie> It's been accepted, just needs verification. If one of the reporters doesn't do it, I'll knock it out.
<mdeslaur> it's verified
<sbeattie> oh, I missed that email.
<mdeslaur> it's just waiting the required waiting period
<tyhicks> good
<tyhicks> I'm in the community role this week
<tyhicks> I'm still catching up on email and IRC from my vacation last week
<sarnold> good luck :)
<tyhicks> :)
<mdeslaur> ctrl-a, del
<tyhicks> I'll be working with jdstrand to get our backlog in order for the W cycle
<mdeslaur> heck, that's what I do, and I didn't go on vacation
<tyhicks> I want to revive my patch updates
<tyhicks> I'll be adding support to apparmor_parser for kernel keyring mediation
<tyhicks> I think that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: your turn
<jjohansen> I have to spend a few minutes preparing for the apparmor meeting tomorrow
<jjohansen> and I have to sit down with the kt and verify the 4.1-RC3 port and make sure we are ready for that new kernel to drop in W
<jjohansen> other than that its planning and back to apparmor cleanups for upstreaming
<tyhicks> jjohansen: I see that we're are 4.1-rc3 - will you be able to push any patches up for 4.2?
<tyhicks> s/are/at/
<jjohansen> tyhicks: yes, sorry that is the other thing todo. /me will make it top priority this week to get a pull request together and get it out
<tyhicks> jjohansen: that's great to hear :)
<jjohansen> its not going to be huge but 8 or 10 patches can go up
<tyhicks> that's a start
<jjohansen> that is it for me sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week; I have a reproducer working for horizon's cve, at least on trusty, so I am feeling much closer to releasing an update; the quick way to do the update is just for trusty and probably newer, since that's what's charmed up and working.. precise might still require the testingopenstack VM image.
<mdeslaur> sarnold: trusty and higher just got brand spanking new horizon packages
<mdeslaur> sarnold: are you sure they still need the CVE fix?
<sarnold> mdeslaur: dunno if that's encouragement to drink or sob or ...
<mdeslaur> oh maybe not trusty
<sarnold> mdeslaur: they may; how recent? friday afternoon I reproduced the problem
<mdeslaur> utopic and vivid have a new package in -proposed that got uploaded last week. Sorry, trusty still has an old package
<sarnold> aha
<mdeslaur> might be worth checking to make sure it's not getting an update soon though
<sarnold> thanks mdeslaur
<tyhicks> sarnold: please be sure to document the serverstack deployment and testing process
<tyhicks> (otherwise, you'll become the openstack testing guy :)
<sarnold> tyhicks: heh, did you bring along "how to motivate employees" on your vacation? :)
<tyhicks> hehe
<mdeslaur> lol
<sarnold> tyhicks: just a note for the backlog review, it may not show up easily, but there's some omre work oustanding for the ppc64-diag MIR, there's some more dependant packages that we ignored in favor of other packages in the last cycle...
<tyhicks> sarnold: thanks for the headsup - I noticed the comment in the MIR bug while reading email this morning
<sarnold> tyhicks: 1417608
<sarnold> oh cool! an update for ppc64-diag :) nice.
<sarnold> anyway, I suppose that doesn't have to happenh right away, but they'll want it SRUd to 14.04 LTS
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> It's Mozilla update this week, so I'll be handling that
<chrisccoulson> I've also got an embargoed update
<chrisccoulson> other than that, I'm just about to merge https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/oxide/media-permissions and then I'll be working on bug 1428754 again
<ubottu> bug 1428754 in Oxide "Persist permission request decisions for a session" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1428754
<chrisccoulson> I'll also be continuing to work through code reviews. I got some done last week, but the list is still growing
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pyrad.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ircd-hybrid.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ibm-3270.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/hostapd.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-4.8-powerpc-cross.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 11 17:05:47 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-11-16.38.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<sarnold> thanjks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-12
<kickinz1> o/
<kickinz1> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 12 16:00:29 2015 UTC.  The chair is kickinz1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<coreycb> o/
<strikov> o/
<rharper> \o
<beisner> o/
<smb> o/
<kickinz1> o/
<kickinz1> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<kickinz1> I found an old one, don't know if still relevant:
<kickinz1>  James Page to provide feedback on bugs 1425288 and 1425128
<ubottu> bug 1425128 in linux (Ubuntu Trusty) "bcache causes task hang with 3.13 kernel" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425128
<ubottu> bug 1425288 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel NULL pointer dereference during bcache cache_set_flush call" [High,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425288
<smb> shall we take that off the agenda for now?
<kickinz1> yes
<kickinz1> In minutes, there is no other action points left.
<kickinz1> #topic Wily Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Wily Development
<kickinz1> Still no https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule yet
<kickinz1> #subtopic Release Bugs
<kickinz1> 1 New bug since last meeting:
<kickinz1> 	http://launchpad.net/bugs/1452312
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1452312 in python-eventlet (Ubuntu Wily) "glance-registry process spins if rsyslog restarted with syslog logging enabled" [High,Confirmed]
<kickinz1> #subtopic Blueprints
<kickinz1> Same here, no https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-w-server yet
<gnuoy> o/
<kickinz1> Sorry the page is there.
<kickinz1> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> kickinz1: nothing on my side, thanks
<kickinz1> Thanks
<kickinz1> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<kickinz1> Anythink to say matsubara?
<kickinz1> matsubara not ther moving on.
<kickinz1> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> We are working on isolated recreation of bcache issues in 3,13. If anybody else is having new findings there let me know. Otherwise not strictly kernel but wondering whether bcache-tools in trusty (bug 1449099) is strictly sru
<ubottu> bug 1449099 in bcache-tools (Ubuntu Trusty) "sru bcache-tools to trusty " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1449099
<rharper> smb: are those issues related to the setup/teardown of bcachc ?
<smb> smb, No. Reported hangs
<rharper> ah, new stuff, ok
<smb> rharper, I know about the teardown
<smb> anything about setup too?
<smb> rharper, If you got anything, let me know offline
<smb> Otherwise has anybody question for us
<smb> I guess that means no
<smb> Or irc is broken
<arges> smb: i can hear you
<arges> : )
<kickinz1> :D
<kickinz1> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<kickinz1> Thanks smb
<kickinz1> Anything?
<matsubara> kickinz1, hey, sorry I'm having connectivity issues and couldn't be online for my QA section of the meeting
<rharper> smb: sorry , was distracted, nothing new with setup only those teardown issues with sysfs interface;  if I find anything else, will let you know
<smb> rharper, cool. tahnks
<kickinz1> So matsubara, do you have anything to say ?
<matsubara> We have smoke tests running for Wily: http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Wily/view/Smoke%20Testing%20/
<matsubara> Some of them are failing and I'm aware of the failures. There are bug reports for them and I'm fixing and/or coordinating the fixes with others.
<matsubara> There are some recent failures for Trusty as well which I'll debug properly during this week.
<matsubara> That's all from me.
<matsubara> kickinz1, ^
<kickinz1> Thanks matsubara.
<matsubara> de rien
<kickinz1> ODS next week ?
<kickinz1> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<kickinz1> next week 19th of may, jamespage to chair.
<kickinz1> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 12 16:16:52 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-12-16.00.moin.txt
<gnuoy> thanks kickinz1
<kickinz1> yw
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 12 17:00:42 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<sforshee> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<henrix> o/
<smb> o/
<bjf> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<arges> o/
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<rtg> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   * Precise - Testing & Verification
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Testing & Verification
<bjf>   *  Utopic - Testing & Verification
<bjf>   *  Vivid  - Testing & Verification
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 02-May through 23-May
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          01-May   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 03-May - 09-May   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 10-May - 23-May   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Wily is now open for development.  With git support in LP recently
<ogasawara> getting stood up, we are going to be dogfooding maintaining our wily
<ogasawara> kernel git repo's on LP.  These will be mirrored to kernel.ubuntu.com.
<ogasawara> For those interested:
<ogasawara> git://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel/ubuntu/+source/linux/+git/wily
<ogasawara> git://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+git/wily
<ogasawara> git://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel/ubuntu/+source/linux-signed/+git/wily
<ogasawara> We are initally tracking the 4.0.x stable series on wily master-next.
<ogasawara> Tracking of the 4.1 series is going on in our unstable git repo on
<ogasawara> kernel.ubuntu.com.  In the interim, the 3.19.0-16.16 kernel from Vivid
<ogasawara> has been copied and seeded in the archive for Wiley.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates: TBD
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 12 17:04:58 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-12-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-14
 * slangasek waves
<cyphermox> o/
<robru> hola
<jodh> \o
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 14 15:04:53 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox)
<slangasek> robru doko slangasek bdmurray jodh sil2100 cyphermox mvo caribou stgraber infinity barry
<slangasek> robru: hi, are you here? :)
<robru> CI Train Spreadsheet Replacement:
<robru> * backend in Flask+SQLAlchemy
<robru> * frontend in AngularJS
<robru> * huge pile of features implemented from scratch
<robru> * Created juju charm for deploying it
<robru> (done)
<slangasek> right on
<doko> * GCC work
<doko> * packged openjdk-9
<doko> * bank holiday today
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> oh right, holiday ;P
<slangasek>  * cloud sprint in malta, then UOS, then miscellaneous phone-related tasks
<slangasek>  * moving phone channels around for wily opening and the deprecation of ubuntu-rtm/14.09
<slangasek>  * bug #1455119: strange bug with image copies getting the wrong contents on system-image, debugging with barry
<ubottu> bug 1455119 in Ubuntu system image "'copy-image' resulted in an image embedding the wrong channel name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1455119
<slangasek> (done)
<bdmurray> This covers a couple of weeks so hold on ;-)
<bdmurray> investigation into Error Tracker OOPSes with virtualbox crashes (UnicodeDecodeError)
<bdmurray> pushed daisy code to backfill system image counters with alias info
<bdmurray> worked with webops to backfill system image counters for aliases
<bdmurray> deleted aliased channels from SystemImages CF
<bdmurray> renamed vivid to 15.04, added wily in errors frontends
<bdmurray> update errors to display new milestones
<bdmurray> worked with webops to sort out where why new assets not available
<bdmurray> updated retracers to handle apport change re exit code 99
<bdmurray> updated whoopsie-update-daily-users cron job to fix 15.04 and add 15.10
<bdmurray> worked with doko and barry regarding python-pip issue
<bdmurray> fixed rls-w reports for wily
<bdmurray> fixed sru-report issue with wily
<bdmurray> research into how to identify ubiquity upgrade failures
<bdmurray> review of rls-v bug reports and moving of things to w
<bdmurray> reviewed apt/dpkg/apport corrupt package handling
<bdmurray> added wily to metarelease, updated u-r-u for wily
<bdmurray> working on adding launchpad support to apport-retrace
<bdmurray> tested whoopsie on wily live cd
<bdmurray> uploaded whoopise change to run on live CD (systemd service not check for ubiquity-dm)
<bdmurray> â done
<doko> bdmurray, barry: is this now in -updates?
<barry> doko: no
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - Spent last week and part of this week fixing bug 1447756 with ondra.
<jodh> * snappy:
<ubottu> bug 1447756 in upstart (Ubuntu) "segfault in log.c code causes phone reboot loops" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447756
<jodh>   - Reviewed lp:~mvo/snappy/selftest-failover.
<jodh>   - Now back to working on upgrader tests.
<jodh> ??
<doko> barry, what is missing?
<barry> doko: i bricked my clone army
<bdmurray> I thought there was hesitation about over riding the error.
<cyphermox> no sil after all?
<cyphermox> * debugging a debconf issue, setting up time-travelling proxy to bisect it, etc.
<cyphermox> * various SRUs
<cyphermox> * upstreaming multipath, efi patches to Debian
<cyphermox> (that's my last few weeks in very shortened)
<cyphermox>  * Sponsoring: bug 1401141 (+ SRU)
<cyphermox>  * sponsored live-build changes for ext tuning
<cyphermox>  * asked dannf to update d-i branches for cleanup and arm64
<ubottu> bug 1401141 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Vivid) "DHCP server does not work for IPoIB (Infiniband)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1401141
<cyphermox>  * grub triage: identified a few cherry-picks from upstream to be done
<cyphermox>  * upload shim 0.8.
<cyphermox>  * bug 1297069: testing shim fix for trusty
<ubottu> bug 1297069 in shim (Ubuntu Trusty) "During the installation under UEFI mode, "Could not open \EFI\BOOT\fallback.efi: 14" shows after passed the BIOS phase." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297069
<cyphermox>  * discussed oem-config preseeding with taihsiang
<cyphermox>  * NM 0.9.10.0-4ubuntu16 upload to wily
<cyphermox>  * prepared ppc64el SRUs for Trusty.
<cyphermox>  * reviewed/merge arm64 d-i branch.
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> mvo's out this week
<slangasek> caribou's not here
<barry> i+=4?
<slangasek> stgraber is out today
<slangasek> infinity is out this week
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> barry:
<barry> system-image: server testing (config.d branch); v3.0 into ci train; triaging bugs; LP: #1454447; LP: #1455119
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1454447 in Ubuntu system image "/etc/system-image/config.d created with too restricted permissions" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1454447
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1455119 in Ubuntu system image "'copy-image' resulted in an image embedding the wrong channel name" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1455119
<barry> other: UOS; LP: #1453846; python-lockfile sponsorship; pycurl 7.19.5.1-1ubuntu1; updated gunicorn pr for py3; bricking my phone
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1453846 in CI Train [cu2d] "refresh_package_versions() must skip binary blobs in debian/" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1453846
<barry> --done--
<slangasek> barry: have you asked around for unbricking advice?
<cyphermox> barry: which device and how bricked, maybe I can help
<barry> slangasek: not yet.  i've tried a few things and will send a msg to phablet later today
<barry> cyphermox: krillin.  it sits at the "bq powered by ubuntu" screen forever
<cyphermox> barry: ok
<slangasek> barry: ah, I would strongly advise grabbing someone in realtime on #phablet or such
<barry> cyphermox: reflashing, even with --recovery-image does no good
<cyphermox> might have to reflash with the BQ tool
<barry> slangasek: will try
<jodh> barry: you prolly need the SP_Flash_tool thing.
<cyphermox> (sorry)
<slangasek> ok, apparently jodh and cyphermox have experience and could help you :-)
<slangasek> any other questions re: status?
<barry> yep, thanks guys!
<jodh> barry: if the flash tool fails, talk to ondra who has even more powerful unbricking magic :)
<bdmurray> Did we make a decision about the python-pip SRU?
<slangasek> bdmurray: didn't sound like it to me
<barry> bdmurray: i still want to get back to that, after i figure out the system-image server bug and test enough of the si server config.d code to release si 3.0 to wily
<barry> bdmurray: eta unknown
<bdmurray> barry: what do you mean by get back to that? will there be changes to the packages?
<slangasek> barry: that means we should not override the current failures but wait for more investigation, correct?
<barry> slangasek: i would like to yes. i know how to fix it.  i'd like to at least fix it in unstable/wily first and then backport
<slangasek> should we be concerned about an upload to revert the previous SRU, to roll back those users that already received the update?
<bdmurray> no, my investigation showed it happens with the package in the release pocket too
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> ok
<bdmurray> so letting the SRU go through won't make things worse
<barry> the fix, iirc, is just to make sure the whls are always first in sys.path, no matter how its invoked
<slangasek> in that case, what reason is there for not overriding these errors reports?
<slangasek> if the SRU isn't worse, shouldn't we just continue phasing it, and treat the bugfix separately?
<bdmurray> that's my opinion
<slangasek> and I gathered that was doko's preference
<slangasek> barry: ^^ is that reasonable?
<barry> that sounds like a good plan.  i want to do a proper fix but that can happen later
<slangasek> ok, great
<slangasek> decided! :)
<doko> slangasek, well,
<doko> ok
<bdmurray> I'll triple check that it happens with the release pocket
<doko> but the pip still removes egg-info files from packages
<slangasek> oh
<doko> at least one
<slangasek> right, and that /was/ a regression
<slangasek> AIUI
<slangasek> (but not necessarily the problem being reported on errors.u.c)
<slangasek> if that is a regression, best practice is to revert the SRU for now and resubmit once the bug is fixed
<slangasek> bdmurray: maybe you want to do a quick reverting upload to knock this off the watch list until barry has time to revisit?
<barry> wfm
<doko> wait, which packages are affected?
<bdmurray> I'm not convinced that this does NOT happen with the version of the package in the release pocket.
<bdmurray> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/e71cb16defd3ee4725bd674e5f5850c5f0b76f2c
<slangasek> bdmurray: the .egg-info removal?
<bdmurray> that's the same import error with 1.5.4-1
<barry> bdmurray: not sure about the egg-info bug, but that import error i believe is reproducible in the r.p.
<slangasek> "r.p."?
<barry> release pocket
<barry> and i know why, and i think i have a fix :)
<bdmurray> so should we check to see if the "egg-info bug" happens with r.p.?
<slangasek> barry: but as that's not the regression, and the .egg-info rm /may/ be a regression (though there's some doubt), fixing the .egg-info problem should be the higher priority
<barry> slangasek: maybe bdmurray can confirm that the egg-info problem happens in the rp?
<barry> *try to confirm
<slangasek> do we have a known reproducer for it?
<barry> i don't know that we do for the egg-info bug
<bdmurray> yeah, pip install httpie or anything which uses requests
<bdmurray> right?
<barry> bdmurray: that reproduces the import error, does it also repro the egg-info bug?
<slangasek> ok, seems like this needs some further investigation; barry, bdmurray, can we take some time to discuss this after the meeting?
<barry> bdmurray: maybe we take this off-line?
<barry> yes
<slangasek> and not hold the rest of the team captive :)
<bdmurray> buh what?
<bdmurray> isn't this fascinating?
<cyphermox> riveting :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<barry> cyphermox: i think you misspelled "revolting"
<slangasek> anything else? :)
<cyphermox> fyi, I'll be on vacation June 8 to 19?
<slangasek> barry: they're pronounced the same in French Canadian
<barry> :D :D
<cyphermox> hehehe
<slangasek> cyphermox: have a good vacation :)
<cyphermox> it's not now
<cyphermox> but thanks
<slangasek> sounds like that's a wrap
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 14 15:34:31 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-14-15.04.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks :)
<jodh> thanks!
<cyphermox> o/
<slangasek> barry, bdmurray: #ubuntu-devel?
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-05-16
<darknite> hello
<darknite> anyone?
<Kilos> hi darknite
<Kilos> can i help you?
<darknite> is there any meeting right now?
<Kilos> sec let me check calender
<Kilos> i see ubuntu security team weekly meeting
<darknite> in this room or other?
<Kilos> at 18.30
<Kilos> not sure if that is my time or utc
<Kilos> i am monitoring a number of channels, if they start somewhere else ill ping you
<Kilos> ok?
<jdstrand> Kilos: fyi, the security team meeting starts in 30 minutes, at 16:30 UTC
<Kilos> ty jdstrand
<Kilos> ah so the 18.30 is my time. thanks for hat
<Kilos> that
<darknite> 30 more minutes?
<Kilos> about 20 now
<darknite> i might not be going for full meeting
<darknite> ok
<darknite> almost time
<jdstrand> hi!
<jjohansen> \o
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 16 16:31:39 2016 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm continuing to focus on snappy
<jdstrand> I've got some snappy interface PRs to review
<jdstrand> I need to respond to the seccomp arg filtering comments and try to land that
<jdstrand> policy recompiles for apparmor upgrades on snappy
<jdstrand> ty hicks and I will go over sprint outcomes and adjust priorities as necessary
<jdstrand> I think that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I'm testing some packages I'll be releasing this week (libarchive, libksba)
<mdeslaur> I'm awaiting upstream samba to commit one of the regression fixes, and I'll release some samba regression updates
<mdeslaur> I also have two embargoed issues I'm working on
<mdeslaur> that's pretty much it, sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> I'm currently working on USNs for the kernels that just got published
<mdeslaur> oh, and I'll work on php5 time permitting
<sbeattie> heh, my condolences.
<sbeattie> I've got the issues around updating gcc-4.8 in trusty sorted out, and will be publishing those later today.
<jdstrand> oh nice!
<sbeattie> I'm finishing up looking for adt regressions so we can publish glibc updates
<sbeattie> I need to get back to looking at gcc -pie failures in yakkety
<sbeattie> I may try to pick up another update as well in the background.
<sbeattie> that's probably it for my week. tyhicks is off today, so jjohansen?
<jjohansen> I'm focusing on apparmor again this week
<jjohansen> I need to poke at several bugs, 1581990 in particular is troubling
<jjohansen> and I still need finish addressing stacking namespace issues so we can fully enable it
<jdstrand> huh, I wonder if 1581990 has anything to do with the snappy bug, since the reporter said that was only after reloads
<jdstrand> (bug #1579135)
<ubottu> bug 1579135 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "kernel BUG on snap disconnect from within a snap" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579135
<jjohansen> possibly, that it looks like something I know was already fixed, so I am wondering if its another path to it
<jjohansen> I think that will take the week and then some, so sarnold you are up
<jjohansen> jdstrand: those do look similar
<sarnold> sorry I'm late
<sarnold> I' mon cve triage this week
<sarnold> I'm aiming to get some imagemagick updates out the door today
<sarnold> it'd be nice to get some yak shaving done this week (use new computer for builds; it'd be nice to do that in lxd without overlayfs or aufs things)
<sarnold> and either apparmor reviewss or MIR reviews
<sarnold> that should be the week, jdstrand?
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: you're up
<sarnold> oh sigh :)
<chrisccoulson> This week I've got an Oxide update to get out (I had that last week, but then there was another Chromium release)
<chrisccoulson> I've also got a Chromium update to sponsor (yay!), and I need to publish thunderbird
<chrisccoulson> In addition to that, I'm still working on bits for bug 1326697 and I'm hoping to have a branch to start reviewing for bug 1544754 as well
<ubottu> bug 1326697 in Oxide "GN (Generate Ninja) is coming" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1326697
<ubottu> bug 1544754 in Oxide "implement the HTML5 pointer lock API" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1544754
<jdstrand> sarnold: it might make sense to sync up with tyhicks tomorrow if there is another update you can help with (not sure of the priorities relative to said reviews, so mentioning that in a friendly manner :)
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I hope to be able to get back to https://launchpad.net/oxide/+milestone/branch-1.16
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/zookeeper.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/zeromq.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lhasa.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pen.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dcmtk.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 16 16:55:37 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-05-16-16.31.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-05-17
<grvrulz> I'm applying for an Ubuntu membership, and I wanted to add my name for tomorrow's meeting(3rd Wednesday of the month: 12:00 UTC ). But the wiki page( 3rd Wednesday of the month: 12:00 UTC ) still has last month's date. Should I update the date? Is the meeting still on?
<grvrulz> kilos ^
<Kilos> hi grvrulz yes please update it
<grvrulz> Thanks :)
<Kilos> the 12:00 slot is difficult to get board members though
<Kilos> where are you?
<grvrulz> I'm in UTC+5:30
<Kilos> are the other timeslots difficult for you?
<grvrulz> The otherslots are next month.
<grvrulz> I'm in no hurry, though.
<Kilos> well enter in the 12 slot and well try get 4 board members there otherwise just postpone then and there to next months slot
<grvrulz> That sounds fair.
<Kilos> ill see if i can get some to make it
<Kilos> sorry for that, everyone is so busy these days
<grvrulz> No problem :) I'll be there, but if people can't make it, I'll try next month.
<Kilos> and feel free to ping me
<Kilos> im in and out most of the day
<grvrulz> Thank you. I'll add to the wiki page. Have a great day. :)
<Kilos> you as well ty
<Kilos> you have your wiki page and lp page sorted?
<grvrulz> Yes, I do.
<grvrulz> Also signed the COC.
<grvrulz> I was going to do the thing last month, but something came up.
<Kilos> with testimonials?
<grvrulz> Yes.
<Kilos> cool
<grvrulz> :)
<Kilos> ah i see you wiki page
<grvrulz> ð
<Kilos> :D
<grvrulz> Anyways, thanks so much. I'll be out now. Have a great day. :)
<Kilos> ty you as well
<Kilos> ai!
<jgrimm> o/
<nacc> \o
<jgrimm> jamespage: able to host irc meeting today?
<jamespage> jgrimm, omg
<jamespage> could be tricky also otp
<jamespage> could someone cover for me?
<jgrimm> jamespage, no worries, will take it
<jamespage> ta
<smoser> o/
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, rharper, smoser, rbasak, teward, caribou, smb, hallyn: server meeting
<cpaelzer> o/
<caribou> o/
<jgrimm> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 17 16:05:32 2016 UTC.  The chair is jgrimm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<jgrimm> hi folks!!  i think there are a few people out this week or busy.
<jgrimm> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jgrimm> No action points listed. cool
<jgrimm> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<jgrimm> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<jgrimm> good time to get some merges in of course..
<nacc> to that end, the importer is almost done for v1
<jgrimm> #link https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html
<nacc> i'm verifying manually a few example merges
<nacc> example imports, rather
<nacc> while it might get deleted, you can see one example here: https://git.launchpad.net/~nacc/ubuntu/+source/open-vm-tools/log/?h=ubuntu/devel
<jgrimm> nacc, do you plan to send an email out to ml, with instructions/examples/request for help testing?
<nacc> smoser: --^ you might esp. be interested as that is a full history, of sorts
<nacc> jgrimm: yep, i'll 'announce' when v1 is ready, i'll need to discuss with rbasak too if we're going to setup a staging project before moving to usd officially
<nacc> jgrimm: feel free to give me an action for that
<smoser> nacc, that is awesome!
<jgrimm> #action nacc to announce v1 importer to ubuntu server world
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to announce v1 importer to ubuntu server world
<jgrimm> when rdy of course. :)
<jgrimm> #subtopic Release Bugs
<nacc> smoser: i'm still verifying it's correct, which is slow & manual, and i think open-vm-tools in particular had a break in the history (hence there's an orphan'd tag in th emiddle)
<smoser> nacc, is '%' a : ?
<nacc> smoser: but it handles syncs and merges properly, i think, so that's something :)
<smoser>  Merge with import/2%10.0.7-3227872-2
<nacc> smoser: yes, that's the dep-14 translation
<smoser> ok.
<jgrimm> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<nacc> ~ -> _ and % -> :
<nacc> smoser: --^ (from http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep14/)
<nacc> smoser: we're going to update git-dsc-commit accordingly too
<jgrimm> moving on..
<nacc> ack
<jgrimm> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
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<caribou> nothing to report this week
<jgrimm> thanks caribou
<nacc> so i have one server bug for xenial -- related to samba
<nacc> LP: #997172
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 997172 in smbldap-tools (Ubuntu) "smbldap-config.pl not installed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/997172
<teward> o/ (late)
<nacc> it's fixed upstream by http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/smbldap-tools/trunk/Makefile.in?r1=155&r2=156&
<nacc> but i'm not sure that's an acceptable thing to SRU? it shouldn't lead to any regression, as the perl script simply isn't present right now...
<jgrimm> nacc, cool. 2012 filed bug.
<nacc> but serverguide is broken/not possible to fix without that bug being resolved (and in fact mentions that bug explicitly as the reason it's wrong :)
<jgrimm> nacc, i haven't read full bug.. what would be reason for not SRUing it?
<nacc> jgrimm: i wasn't sure if there were rules about adding a new executable to the contents of a package already published
<nacc> jgrimm: i guess it's going somewhere into /usr/share/doc, so maybe it shouldn't be too big of a deal
<nacc> jgrimm: just wanted to double-check and then i'll fix the bug and serverguide
<jgrimm> nacc, sounds good
<jgrimm> anyone else?
<cpaelzer> IMHO - regression potential is the main question, and that seems low to none
<jgrimm> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Nothing new this week. So far the Yakkety kernel still is a rolled forward Xenial one.
<jgrimm> thanks smb
<jgrimm> any questions for kernel team?
<nacc> cpaelzer: ack, thanks
<jgrimm> moving on
<jgrimm> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
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<jgrimm> not seeing anything interesting on lwn CFP calendar
<jgrimm> pycon is coming up at end of month
<jgrimm> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
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<jgrimm> #topic Open Discussion
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<teward> just to put this out there, i'll be putting out a call for testing in maybe a week - installation, and upgrade-from-current-version - for nginx.
<jgrimm> thanks teward
<jgrimm> so one thing i've meant to mention is that I've started unsubscribing 'Ubuntu Server Team" from openstack packages.
<teward> i'm almost finished getting a merge prepped, but before I push it in, I need more than my own basic tests - i'll send to ubuntu-server ML when that's ready
<jgrimm> thanks
<teward> yep  :)
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: I also saw you went into discussion with the openstack Team for cases where it is not 100% clear if it is server or openstack
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: will you do that for all packages that you consider "openstack"?
<cpaelzer> like rabbitmq this week IIRC
<cpaelzer> last week
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, there will be some packages that we jointly support
<jgrimm> rabbitmq is probably all ours tho as independently useful
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: nice, this will help the bug overview - Thank!
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, yes.. it cleans up a bunch of reports to make them actually useful for both of our teams
<cpaelzer> the general clarification - not that "we" got rabbitmq :-)
<jgrimm> :)
<jgrimm> anyone else?
<jgrimm> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<jgrimm> Tuesday 2016-05-24 at 1600 UTC  .. jamespage to chair
<jgrimm> and that's a wrap. Thanks folks!
<cpaelzer> thanks jgrimm, o/ everybody
<jgrimm> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 17 16:27:56 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-05-17-16.05.moin.txt
<teward> jgrimm: most likely, i will not be around for the next two meetings
<teward> just wanted to make that note as well
<jgrimm> teward, ok, thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-05-18
<grvrulz> Hi everyone!! I'm here for the UTC 12:00 Membership Board meeting.
<grvrulz> Looks like nobody is coming.
<grvrulz> Looks like this is a bad time of day for most of the people. I'll come back for the next meeting.
<Kilos> ai! missed him
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-05-19
 * slangasek waves
<cyphermox> o/
<caribou> \o
<sil2100> o/
<pitti> \o
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 19 15:01:06 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk)
<slangasek> barry caribou pitti sil2100 bdmurray robru infinity tdaitx doko cyphermox xnox slangasek chiluk
<barry> oh great
<sil2100> barry: winner!
<slangasek> :)
 * barry scrolls through his gtimelog
<barry> pyflakes 1.2.2-3, 1.2.3-1
<barry> upgrade desktop to yakkety
<barry> started a libpeas resync w/debian (ppa: barry/libpeasresync)
<barry> python-flake8 2.5.4-3 (debian bug #824195)
<ubottu> Debian bug 824195 in src:python-flake8 "python-flake8: FTBFS: Tries to download older version of pyflakes" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/824195
<barry> looked again at LP: #1512792 - still can't repro
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1512792 in python-pip (Ubuntu) "Pip crashes with cryptography/cffi/openssl error" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512792
<barry> various and sundry pycon planning stuff
<barry> various and sundry ubuntu-image work
<barry> reviewed some branches for robru
<barry> pyparsing 2.1.4+dfsg1-1
<barry> --done--
<caribou>  Bugfix :
<caribou>  - multipath coredump:
<caribou>    LP: #1532789 - uploaded for SRU
<caribou>    - Waiting for customer confirmation
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1532789 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu Trusty) "Trusty multipath-tools suffering seg faults" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1532789
<caribou>  - Apache 2.4.18(xenial) backport (LP: #1335068)
<caribou>    Uploaded to backport
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1335068 in trusty-backports "Please backport apache2 2.4.10-1ubuntu1 (main) from Utopic" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1335068
<caribou>  Development work:
<caribou>  - makedumpfile development
<caribou>    Various contribution from HPE
<caribou>    further fix for s390 enablement
<caribou>    Work on new DEP8 tests
<caribou>  - vsftpd DEP8 regression
<caribou>    Argueing with upstream Debian to avoid delta
<caribou>  - Various sponsoring : bash-completion, multipath-tools
<caribou>  â Done
<pitti> only a 4-day week
<pitti> 16.10 planning:
<pitti>  - Discuss/research/draft convergence-y-replace-upstart blueprint; I have an initial working prototype now, needs more refinement/testing/packaging
<pitti>  - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-y-local-resolver: stil waiting for slangasek to review and accept for yakkety
<pitti>  - Network YAML config drafting with rharper; will have a meeting next week to discuss the remaining design issues and implementation plan
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - quite some infrastructure maintenance due to some cloud issues, tests causing tmpfail loops, and s390x reorg
<pitti>  - britney: Produce update_output_notest.txt with a dry run ignoring test results, for easier lib transition untangling
<pitti>  - dpkg: Record test dependencies in Sources index, for implementing reverse test dependency triggering (#1491145); second patch version sent to Debian for review
<pitti>  - Test new arm64 kernels on the armhf lxd boxes in scalingstack (#1531768)
<pitti> distro:
<pitti>  - apport: Fix UnicodeDecodeError in ubiquity hook (#1446537)
<pitti>  - Investigate apport regression on amd64, libnih/gcc problem (#1580601)
<pitti>  - pollinate: Fix dependency loops during boot (#1576333)
<pitti>  - upower: Fix behaviour when connecting to daemon fails (#1546641)
<pitti>  - Review Marco's upower kbd brightness patch (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95457)
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 95457 in general "KbdBacklight.GetBrightness always returns the cached value for keyboards with hardwired controls" [Normal,New]
<pitti>  - lots of SRU processing
<pitti>  - patch pilot shift
<pitti> (end)
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - More work on OTA-11, preparing re-spins, pushing on fixes, snapshot copies etc.
<sil2100> - Adding ubuntu-pd support to commitlogs, enabling frieza commitlogs
<sil2100> - Discussing the future of the SDK seeds with the SDK team
<sil2100> - Looking into the batch package copy from overlay to yakkety before trio landings
<sil2100> - Xenial touch transition
<sil2100>   * Improving the automated arm64-availability scripts
<sil2100>   * Enabling arm64 in packaging for the touch meta package, backporting to xenial
<sil2100>   * Discussing the arm64 oxide and ciborium situation
<sil2100> - Landing team tools improvements, some ideas on a specific snapshot re-spin tool
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have missing assets investigated
<bdmurray> found out the assets system changed on me
<bdmurray> submitted a different RT to stop using assets.u.c altogether
<bdmurray> fixed bug with errors charm and allow_bug_filing option on precise
<bdmurray> confirmed failed-queue retracers no long run into "ERROR: ExecutablePath" does not exist issues
<bdmurray> wrote cassandra driver code to find crash reports about architectures we don't retrace
<bdmurray> submitted RT to get some arm64 cores to test retracing
<bdmurray> reported Errors / Diasy bug LP: #1582295 (too many R's)
<bdmurray> worked with webops to migrate ET to PS4.5 swift
<bdmurray> dealt with the mess (retracers hanging, large queues) that became
<bdmurray> reported apport bug LP: #1581682 re duplicate signature for package install failures
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1582295 in Errors "package versions table shows multiple packages from release pocket" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1582295
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1581682 in apport (Ubuntu Xenial) "Duplicate signature for Package problems missing info" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1581682
<bdmurray> worked on improvements to duplicate signature in the ubuntu hook
<bdmurray> commited fixes for apport bugs (LP: #1548421, LP: #1581682)
<bdmurray> research into and upload fix to Trusty for apport bug (LP: #1339663)
<bdmurray> investigation into LP: #1566201
<bdmurray> research into apport bug (LP: #1446537)
<bdmurray> review of apport package hooks that use attach_root_command_output (LP: #1446537)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1548421 in apport (Ubuntu Xenial) "python stacktrace during 'apport-bug'" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1548421
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1339663 in apport (Ubuntu Trusty) "ubuntu-bug fails with "whoopsie-upload-all: error: unrecognized arguments" when /var/lib/apport/autoreport exists" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1339663
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1566201 in apturl (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/apturl-gtk:AttributeError:/usr/bin/apturl-gtk@47:main:enableChannel:doEnableChannel" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566201
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1446537 in apport (Ubuntu Xenial) "apport hook fails in add_info with TypeError: 'str' does not support the buffer interface" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1446537
<bdmurray> SRU verification of trusty bug (LP: #989819)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 989819 in Daisy "Make duplicate signature more specific for DBusException and OSError" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989819
<bdmurray> pushed apport change to tag bugs apport-hook-error
<bdmurray> â done
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> - work on parallelizing builds continues
<robru> lp:canonical-mojo-specs
<robru> - fixes for passing token from bileto to jenkins
<robru> (done)
<infinity> - Meetings and start work on 'ubuntu-image' with zyga and barry
<infinity> - Bug triage, AA, SRU, etc work for 16.04.1
<infinity> - Work with Andy on AA training, added him to snakefruit
<infinity> - Existential crisis regarding impending surgery, drafted a hasty will to leave my free time to pitti and my sarcasm to doko
<infinity> (done)
<tdaitx> = JCK 8
<tdaitx>   * Debugging JFrame tests to get them working; JFrames are still still showing up yellow with no content
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx>   * OpenJDK 6/7/8 bugs:
<tdaitx>     - Triage, reproducing (or not), testing fixes, reporting issues upstream (913434, 1582229, 1581835, 1564780, 1580996)
<tdaitx> (done)
<doko> - short week (two bank holidays)
<doko> - yakkety merges
<doko> - GCC cross build fixes
<doko> (done)
<cyphermox> - sponsored bridge-utils for chiluk
<cyphermox> - secure boot integration
<cyphermox>  - finished fixing up SB/shim on yakkety for third-party drivers
<cyphermox>  - dkms + grub uploads to use update-secureboot-policy.
<cyphermox> - setup local maas environment
<cyphermox> - testing IPv6 PXE boot with grub.
<cyphermox> - grub patches for timers (EFI) on Hyper-V (bug LP: #1519836)
<cyphermox> - preparing grub, shim-signed, dkms SRUs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1519836 in grub2-signed (Ubuntu Xenial) "MaaS fails to boot Hyper-V Generation 2 virtual machines" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1519836
<pitti> infinity: you mean your *entire* 5 minutes of free time per week? /me is overwhelmed
<chiluk> thought it was cifs-utils.
<cyphermox> - monday May 23 is Victoria/Patriots day
<cyphermox> (done)
<xnox> s390-dasd/dasd -> preseed support in yakkety, unapproved for xenial bug #1572941
<xnox> netcfg -> unapproved sru for netcfg/vlan_id bug #1567687, and turning off dhcp preseed bug [s390x] bug #1572607
<xnox> upstart -> review/merge & upload fixes for testsuite and desktop environment propagation, unapproved sru
<xnox> helping to enable touch packages on arm64 in yakkety
<xnox> meetings about ongoing s390x "support"
<xnox> meetings about images for L1CC
<xnox> prep for Debconf
<xnox> off next week
<xnox> ..
<ubottu> bug 1572941 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "s390-dasd module does not perform with preseed file" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1572941
<ubottu> bug 1567687 in netcfg (Ubuntu Xenial) "add vlan support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1567687
<ubottu> bug 1572607 in netcfg (Ubuntu Xenial) "netcfg/disable_autoconfig=true still prompts for "Auto-configure networking?"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1572607
<cyphermox> chiluk: do you also need cifs sponsored?
<infinity> pitti: I suspect I'll have a lot more free time if I'm dead.  You can have it all!
<chiluk> cyphermox: I'm pretty sure you sponsored cifs-utils not bridge-utils.
 * pitti is scared
<cyphermox> chiluk: oh, right, I'm mixing things up
<chiluk> no prob.
<cyphermox> chiluk: sponsored cifs-utils for you, bridge-utils for rhaper.
<chiluk> don't worry cyphermox I will need more sponsorship
<chiluk> pesky customers always getting in the way.
<chiluk> slangasek: ??
<slangasek> chiluk: !!
<chiluk> your turn.
<slangasek>  * attended the snappy sprint in Vancouver last week! good sprint, brought back some urgent work items for the team which I've been discussing with a few of you (ubuntu-image)
<slangasek>  * working on documenting SRU exceptions for various Canonical projects that have upstream QA (juju, snapd)
<slangasek>  * brought a cold with me from the previous sprint through customs into Vancouver and back, so less productive than expected at the beginning of the week; but mostly cleared up now
<slangasek>  * discussions around z Series systems
<slangasek>  * uploaded a fix for a regression in the lsb SRU to trusty (LP: #1582813)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1582813 in lsb (Ubuntu Trusty) "service --status-all always reports upstart managed daemons as running" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1582813
<slangasek>  * various discussions with the team about priorities for the new cycle
<slangasek>  * learning a bit more about how packaging of golang software works
<slangasek>  * will be off this morning aside from this meeting
<slangasek> (done)
<infinity> 15:13 < slangasek>  * learning a bit more about how packaging of golang software works
<infinity> My condolences.
<chiluk> * LP #1576747 - Will test
<chiluk> * LP #1581236 - Haswell does not reach greater than pc3.
<chiluk> * LP #1579917 - Skylake with nvme does not reach greater than pc2
<chiluk> * LP #1581141 - cifs-utils
<chiluk> * LP #1581595 - partman-auto-lvm
<chiluk> * Will continue merging when my day job responsibilities allow.
<chiluk> * Got network performance issue in STS Lab ironed out *100 mb link on router.
<chiluk> - done -
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576747 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Network manager unable to control wifi after suspend in 16.04" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576747
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1581236 in linux (Ubuntu) "Power state does not drop lower than pc03 for package (Haswell i7-4500U) " [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1581236
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1579917 in linux (Ubuntu) "Skylake processor never reaches low power states on X1 Carbon gen 4 with NVMe drive" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579917
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1581141 in cifs-utils (Ubuntu) "Merge from debian cifs-utils_6.5-2" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1581141
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1581595 in partman-auto-lvm (Ubuntu) "Merge from debian partman-auto-lvm 59" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1581595
<slangasek> infinity: I have a package with a "transitional" binary package, which if I drop it from debian/control, causes the package to FTBFS ;)
<chiluk> fyi cyphermox 1581595 is awaiting sponsorship
<cyphermox> yeah you got my curiosity when I saw a d-i component
<chiluk> yeah.. I'm kind of just picking things at random when they pique my interests.
<infinity> slangasek: And not just because it goes from multi-binary to single-binary and installs to a different location?
<chiluk> if anyone has suggestions on which packages to work on first let me know.
<chiluk> I reserve the right to ignore your suggestions though.
<slangasek> infinity: proooobably not
<cyphermox> chiluk: just fyi, I personally don't mind since you seem to know what you're doing from what I've seen, but I was once told it was polite to ask the TIL owner before doing merges :)
<slangasek> s/polite/efficient/
<cyphermox> that too
<infinity> slangasek: I keep meaning to file a debhelper bug begging to fix that for compat 10, and just always install to debian/tmp.
<slangasek> infinity: yes plz
<cyphermox> +1
<chiluk> what's the best way to look that up the TIL owner?
<slangasek> chiluk: merges.u.c
<cyphermox> mom doesn't lie, usually
<slangasek> chiluk: or "latest entry in the changelog"
<chiluk> yeah I didn't think that made them the owner.
<slangasek> it's owner-by-default
<chiluk> but just most probably the owner
<caribou> infinity: got bitten by that with mstflint on Xenial & uploaded a binary package w/o the binaries :-/
<slangasek> ok; any other questions re: status?
<cyphermox> slangasek: chiluk: since we do get the changelog in merges.u.c anyway, would it be worth it to try to bring up stats for who is the most likely owner via number of changelog entries?
<cyphermox> not that that's in any way a priority ;)
<slangasek> cyphermox: I think the current approach of TIL is fine
<slangasek> if you touched it most recently, you are more likely to have time to work on the merge than someone who touched it 5 times 3 years ago
<cyphermox> true
<infinity> doko and I had a discussion at the CDO sprint wherein we opined that perhaps no-change uploads should retain the previous uploader's name in the changelog (so it would just look like a sponsored upload).
<slangasek> and if you don't have time to work on the merge, someone can take the merge from you as appropriate
<cyphermox> I got no questions
<infinity> So TIL is more appropriately the "last meaningful upload".
<slangasek> infinity: well, it's not uncommon for me to do a no-change upload, find that I'm now TIL, and do a force-sync that otherwise wouldn't get done for a cycle
<slangasek> but perhaps my experience is not representative
<pitti> yeah, same here
<pitti> i. e. one earns a lot of merges when doing lib transitions, but at least that cleans up some long-overdue merges
<infinity> pitti: When you forced dpkg through, did you do anything about the (real) devscripts test regression?
<infinity> pitti: If not, I'll file the Debian bug and get that fixed.
<bdmurray> Could we not count no-change uploads somehow?
<pitti> infinity: no, not yet; I just kept it as a tab (just like the nfs-utils regression), but didn't get to devscripts yet
<pitti> infinity: and devscripts was already broken by an earlier dpkg, so that's why I did'nt consider it a blocker for 1.18.7
<pitti> (or earlier whatever)
<infinity> pitti: It was?  It looked like it was passing before dpkg.
<slangasek> bdmurray: could; I just don't think it's worth the effort.  If anyone in particular is bothered by being TIL on too many packages, they can always offer them up
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<pitti> infinity: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/d/devscripts/yakkety/amd64/
<bdmurray> slangasek: offer them up where?
<slangasek> bdmurray: here, ubuntu-devel, wherever :)
<doko> bdmurray, what do you mean by "not count"?
<slangasek> anything else, today?
<barry> any travis experts among us?
<cyphermox> there is always some victim^Wenthusiastic new developer who might want to take care of package XYZ
<slangasek> I went to elementary school with a travis
<infinity> I know a Travis who's a total jerk.
<pitti> slangasek, bdmurray: I think the best place to "offer" them is the comment column in MoM
<barry> only if he turned into a stand-up comedian named travis c.i.
<slangasek> pitti: good point
<pitti> simple to use, and right where you'd expect them
<pitti> and a lot of merges have such a comment already
<slangasek> barry: heh
<chiluk> i know 3 Travis's  one of which sends sexts to groupme volleyball groups by accident.
<infinity> ...
<infinity> chiluk: You win.
<infinity> chiluk: Or lose...
<chiluk> infinity: bad flashbacks.
 * barry is glad he asked
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> alright, anything else?
<cyphermox> chiluk: fyi isc-dhcp might be manageable. not easy, but fun
<chiluk> alrighty... I'm trying to do quassel right now, but it's not the cleanest of package.. as I have a personal interest in quassel working well.
<cyphermox> chiluk: thanks for that
<cyphermox> slangasek: nothing here.
<chiluk> nothing else slangasek
<bdmurray> Oh, I could use some help with bug 1566201.
<ubottu> bug 1566201 in apturl (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/apturl-gtk:AttributeError:/usr/bin/apturl-gtk@47:main:enableChannel:doEnableChannel" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566201
<sil2100> All good here, just waiting for you to have a few free cycles to give me some advice on the batch copy stuff
<bdmurray> It happens an awful lot in Xenial.
<slangasek> checked quickly that adobe-flashplugin is published to xenial partner (it is)
<cyphermox> bdmurray: that reminds me of something I touched last cycle
 * cyphermox greps
<slangasek> bdmurray: just ran the command from the commandline and it didn't crash immediately
<slangasek> great, cyphermox will take it :)
<bdmurray> I've fixed a couple of tracebacks in that bug but I'm somewhat stuck on the last one.
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 19 15:35:03 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-05-19-15.01.moin.txt
<barry> thanks!
<slangasek> ok, thanks folks!
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<caribou> thanks all !
<howefield> hi, is the Ubuntu Governance meeting on ?
<howefield>  howefield | hi, is the Ubuntu Governance meeting on ?  howefield | hi, is the Ubuntu Governance meeting on ?
<howefield> oops, sorry.. mistype
<Kilos> i thought you were just stuttering
<howefield> copy/paste fail :)
<Kilos> lol
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-05-15
<mdeslaur> \o
<jjohansen> o/
<jdstrand> o/
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 15 16:30:29 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> last week I participated in tons of snappy discussions and a couple unplanned high priority items which took away from my ability to get to everything I planned
<jdstrand> I did get to various PR reviews, fixed an ARM regression related to the recent netlink arg filtering PR and made changes to the classic snap (to ease working on the netlink regression)
<jdstrand> I also spent quite a bit of time investigating at the current state of overlayfs usage in and outside of snaps on 4.4 and 4.10 kernel. Very nearly done with investigation and will report back in the bug
<jdstrand> This week is a short week for me (off friday and out next week). I plan to:
<jdstrand> - finish the overlayfs investigation
<jdstrand> - fix snappy-debug to work with journald, update for snapd 2.25 and 2.26
<jdstrand> - work on an embargoed issue
<jdstrand> - snappy forum discussions and PR reviews
<jdstrand> - does a miscellaneous policy updates PR
<jdstrand> - get back to wayland/gnome/plasma interfaces as have time
<jdstrand> that's it from me. mdeslaur you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I just pushed out a couple of updates (git and kde4libs)
<mdeslaur> I have libytnef to publish this afternoon
<mdeslaur> (just finished testing it)
<mdeslaur> I am still awaiting qemu test results
<mdeslaur> and will work on other updates after that
<mdeslaur> that's it from me, sbeattie
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<cpaelzer> mdeslaur: fyi - tests already running
<mdeslaur> cpaelzer: sweet, thanks!
<sbeattie> I have openjdk-7 updates from tdaitx to test and publish
<sbeattie> I'll likely have kernel USNs to publish today or tomorrow
<sbeattie> ... which likely means figuring out the precise/E publishing issues
<sbeattie> after that, I'll be going down the list
<sbeattie> I also need to check in on some apparmor issues
<sbeattie> that's probably it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: over to you
<tyhicks> I'm on bug triage this week
<tyhicks> CVE triage and precise/esm UCT work consumed the majority of my week last week
<tyhicks> still need to get back to my seccomp work
<tyhicks> fscrypto userspace isn't yet public so I'm still waiting to review and poke at that
<tyhicks> there are still some roadmap sprint followups that I need to do
<tyhicks> and I have an internal issue that I'm working on
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I have to finish up the 4.11 apparmor port, there are memory corruption crashing issues to track down, currently mostly likely triggered by fput, in code that hasn't changed
<jjohansen> poke some people to review upstream securityfs patch
<jjohansen> there is a virt-aa helper upstreaming thread to check on
<jjohansen> I have some LSM backlog to catch up on (eg. IMA posted out some ns support that makes changes to fs/namespace.c), for now just to make sure there is nothing to be aware of for upstreaming
<jjohansen> possibly coordinating with sbeattie on afore mentioned apparmor issues
<jjohansen> and then hopefully back to the upstreaming work
<jjohansen> probably working on fixing the typesplitting, which without the unix rules mediation won't be going up
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me, I don't think sarnold is around yet, so tyhicksback to you
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: you're up
<chrisccoulson> I spent some time last week debugging a thunderbird issue, which meant I didn't finish my firefox symbol upload script. I plan to do that this week
<sarnold> (here now)
<chrisccoulson> Also plan to publish thunderbird (I'm just waiting for upstream to actually release it)
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: sounds good - is that it for you?
<chrisccoulson> I've got an internal issue to resolve too
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be spending some time figuring out what to work on next, so I'll probably be pinging various people this week
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> sarnold: go ahead
<sarnold> i'm on cve triage this week; i'll start the 'free time' with xdelta3 mir and move on down the mir list; perhaps apparmor patch reviews if john's looking for another set of eyes
<sarnold> that's it for me, ratliff?
<ratliff> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> sarnold: you have a shadow regression, fyi
<mdeslaur> sarnold: congrats
<sarnold> mdeslaur: argh those were too simple to have regressions :(
<mdeslaur> yeah :(
<ratliff> I will largely be focused on internal tasks this week.
<chrisccoulson> oh, I forgot - I'm hoping will has some design guidelines for the startpage for me this week, so I can start the work to move away from http://start.ubuntu.com/ in firefox
<chrisccoulson> (sorry for interrupting)
<ratliff> There are some technical content item, including the webinar.
<ratliff> *items
<ratliff> that is it for me this week. back to you tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libfpdi-php.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/suckless-tools.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jgit.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/flightgear.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/plasma-workspace.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<mdeslaur> please help make the suckless-tools suck even less.
<ratliff> The team has reactived their twitter account @ubuntu_sec and are reachable there now as well.
<JamieBennett> ratliff: look forward to the stream of tweets :)
<ratliff> thanks, JamieBennett!
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff, JamieBennett: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 15 16:54:53 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-05-15-16.30.moin.txt
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-05-16
<ahasenack> o/
<nacc> o/
<nacc> giving folks a few minutes
<cpaelzer> o/
<dpb1_> o/
<rharper> o/
<slashd> o/
<nacc> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 16 16:02:17 2017 UTC.  The chair is nacc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<nacc> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<nacc> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page
<nacc> rbasak is not here, so i'll copy it forward for now
<nacc> #action ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page
<meetingology> ACTION: ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page
<nacc> bah
<powersj> o/ (sorry for being late)
<nacc> CTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<nacc> carrying it over
<nacc> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<nacc> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<nacc> ACTION: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<nacc> ACTION: rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<rharper> carry for both
<nacc> rharper: thanks
<nacc> #action rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
 * rharper puts on the cone of shame 
<nacc> #action rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<nacc> ACTION: teward to add release notes blurb for nginx (1.10.x -> 1.12.x) (carried over)
<nacc> didn't see teward, will carry it over
<nacc> #action teward to add release notes blurb for nginx (1.10.x -> 1.12.x) (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: teward to add release notes blurb for nginx (1.10.x -> 1.12.x) (carried over)
<nacc> ACTION dpb to look into a few open issues around automatic updates that were pointed out by the doc team
<nacc> dpb1_: ?
<ahasenack> what was that again?
<dpb1_> yes, carry over
<ahasenack> about esm?
<nacc> dpb1_: thanks
<dpb1_> ahasenack: no
<nacc> #action dpb to look into a few open issues around automatic updates that were pointed out by the doc team
<meetingology> ACTION: dpb to look into a few open issues around automatic updates that were pointed out by the doc team
<dpb1_> there are a series of bugs in last weeks meeting
<nacc> #info all action items carried forward (go team!)
<nacc> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<nacc> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<nacc> anything to bring up generally for 17.10?
<ahasenack> not from me
<teward> a manual nginx merge will happen, from Debian Experimental, but from their now-superseded 1.12.0 packaging.  That's in the works, manual merges are painful
<teward> other than that, nothing.
<teward> (yes I am actually quite alive heh)
<nacc> teward: thanks
<nacc> #info manual nginx merge (teward) with Debian experimental will happen
<nacc> #subtopic blueprints
<teward> probably in the next week or two?  I dunno, depends on how busy my job is :P
<nacc> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-aa-server-core
<nacc> two MIRs filed for apache2 (nghttp2) and open-iscsi (open-isns)
<nacc> #info two MIRs filed for apache2 (nghttp2) and open-iscsi (open-isns) (nacc)
<nacc> #subtopic Release Bugs
<nacc> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<nacc> django merge is waiting on testing from openstack and maas teams, but is queued (locally)
<nacc> #info python-django merge is waiting on testing from openstack and maas teams, but is queued (locally) (nacc)
<ahasenack> the ssh one has been there for quite a while
<nacc> xnox is working that one, so probably fine :)
<ahasenack> oh well, not nearly as long as the others, ok :)
<nacc> i think we can move on
<nacc> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd)
<xnox> nacc, ?
<slashd> STS bug: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24587628/
<slashd> Addtional infos :
<slashd> - I'm working on a ebtables bug (userspace). We, STS, made a fix, but it seems like ebtables is unmaintained upstream now. Nowadays all devel is happening in nft so I'll try to make the change commited/uploaded in Debian and then start the SRU.
<nacc> xnox: oh some z bug (LP: #1686618) that is on the server qa report
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1686618 in openssh (Ubuntu Artful) "ssh connection attempts fail if hw crypto support on s390x is enabled on 17.04" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686618
<slashd> #info SRU pending for : sssd, nfs-utils, qemu, ebtables
<xnox> nacc, yeah, awaiting on upstream.
<nacc> xnox: thanks
<nacc> slashd: anything else to bring up?
<slashd> nacc, no everything is under control
<nacc> slashd: great, thank!
<nacc> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<nacc> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<nacc> just for completeness
<nacc> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<nacc> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> howdy! I was out last week, so not much to reporter there.
<nacc> powersj: fair enough! thanks :)
<powersj> This week I am trying to close out two cloud-init merges around integration testing and unit test and build on centos
<nacc> #info powersj out last week
<nacc> powersj: ok to move on?
<powersj> yep :) thx!
<nacc> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<nacc> sforshee: around?
<nacc> #info no kernel update this week
<nacc> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<nacc> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<nacc> nothing standing out
<nacc> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<nacc> Bug Squashing Day #4 is tmrw
<nacc> I sent an email today
<nacc> #info Ubuntu Server Bug Squashing Day #4 on May 17, 2017
<nacc> anything else?
<ahasenack> when does it start tomorrow?
<nacc> ahasenack: all day :)
<ahasenack> first come :)
<nacc> ahasenack: so whenever any of us wakes up :)
<ahasenack> ok
<nacc> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<nacc> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<nacc> smoser: you ok to chair next week?
<nacc> #info Next meeting is May 23, 2017 1600, smoser to chair
<nacc> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 16 16:21:51 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-05-16-16.02.moin.txt
<cpaelzer> thanks nacc
<nacc> thanks everyone
<rharper> thanks nacc
<cpaelzer> sorry, didn't have anything reasonable for this week to add to any topic
<nacc> not a problem
<ahasenack> thanks nacc
<powersj> thanks nacc
<dpb1_> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-05-17
<Wild_Man> I guess the meeting that was supposed to happen 33 minutes ago was canceled?
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-05-18
 * slangasek waves
<rbalint> o/
<cyphermox> hello!
<slangasek> hmm is mumble down for anyone else?
<cyphermox> wfm
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 18 15:02:47 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> ah, I think the VPN was being unpleasant
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e doko bdmurray slangasek infinity sil2100 cyphermox tdaitx xnox mwhudson rbalint)
<slangasek> rbalint slangasek cyphermox tdaitx sil2100 mwhudson xnox doko infinity bdmurray
<rbalint>  set up GKE and Azure environments
<rbalint> packaged printer drivers for OKI #862726
<rbalint> created patch for ftbfs both for cvs and debhelper LP: #1691078
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1691078 in debhelper (Ubuntu) "cvs FTBFS in artful: dpkg-deb: error: invalid compressor parameters: unknown compression strategy" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1691078
<gaughen> I'm on my way
<rbalint> Azure image preparations - in progress
<rbalint> EOF
<gaughen> to mumble
<slangasek>  * slow week, sick most of the time
<slangasek>  * netplan planning
<slangasek>  * discussions around some new customer image requests
<slangasek>   * landed branches to move more essential config (that doesn't need to be private) into the lp:ubuntu-cdimage project
<slangasek>  * looking at integration of kernel livepatch in the desktop UI
<slangasek>  * discussions around SecureBoot-signed kernels for customer projects
<slangasek>  * a few merges
<slangasek>  * a few SRUs processed
<slangasek>  * work on AA/SRU tooling around ESM kernel publications
<slangasek>  * upcoming:
<slangasek>   * out of office next Wed for partner meetings in Seattle area
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> MIRs:
<cyphermox>  - gjs, gnome-shell, gdm3, mozjs38, gnome-settings-daemon, mutter...
<cyphermox> grub/UEFI:
<cyphermox>  - still fighting the grub EFI patches; almost done: fixing the last warnings/errors that cause armhf/arm64 to ftbfs.
<cyphermox> netplan:
<cyphermox>  - MAC cloning support (fixing autopkgtests)
<cyphermox> spec work:
<cyphermox>  - harassing slangasek to sign-off on foundations-aa-deprecate-legacy-net-tools and foundations-aa-migrating-to-netplan
<cyphermox>  - tracking down feedback/sign-off from server, juju teams.
<cyphermox> also, discussing MIR team staffing
<cyphermox> upcoming: more SB, other desktop MIRs...
<cyphermox> (done)
 * xnox steps away for a minute
<slangasek> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK
<tdaitx>   * Packaged OpenJDK 7 for Trusty, packaged again due to a regression
<tdaitx>   * Packaged IcedTea 2.6.10 (waiting the build to finish in order to test it)
<tdaitx>   * Checked error tracker for regressions on the new packages and was also combing for a specific java-atk-wrapper segfault, as we might need to backport/SRU the newest java-atk-wrapper to trusty
<tdaitx> = JCK
<tdaitx>   * Started testing 8u131 (ongoing, hotspot and interactive tests are next)
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx>   * Performance review (ongoing)
<tdaitx> (done)
 * xnox ?!
<xnox> bug #1690605
<xnox> bug #1686784
<xnox> sponsored bug #1576341
<xnox> progress on removals review
<ubottu> bug 1690605 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolved: no dns resolution after upgrade to Artful" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690605
<xnox> progress on rax onmetal image
<xnox> bug #1691100
<ubottu> bug 1686784 in systemd (Ubuntu Xenial) "no predictable names for platform (non-PCI) NICs" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686784
<xnox> bug #1689346
<ubottu> bug 1576341 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd in degraded state on startup in LXD containers" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576341
<xnox> bug #1686784
<ubottu> bug 1691100 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "ipv6 parsing appears to fail for netplan, with latest changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1691100
<ubottu> bug 1689346 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-init and nplan do not parse and use OpenStack networking correctly with netmask" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689346
<xnox> bug #1690388 times two
<ubottu> bug 1690388 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "wrong hwaddr on the vlan bond with nplan and cloud-init" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690388
<xnox> bug #1690480
<ubottu> bug 1690480 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-init / nplan - missing bond mode miimon xmit_hash_policy" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690480
<xnox> bug #1682871
<ubottu> bug 1682871 in linux (Ubuntu Xenial) "attempts to rename vlans / vlans have addr_assign_type of 0 on kernel 4.4" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1682871
<xnox> Installed windows10 preview sdk et.al.
<xnox> ..
<cyphermox> xnox: err, I do have miimon and xmit_hash_policy support in netplan?
<cyphermox> is that why it's a cloud-init bug instead?
<xnox> cyphermox, correct, but cloud-init was not passing those keys through to netplan at all.
<cyphermox> xnox: ah, I see
<xnox> cyphermox, and used wrong _ - between the words
<slangasek> doko: here?
<cyphermox> sure, alright
<xnox> cyphermox, honestly, netplan is fine. and the macaddress thing is optional and is the only "missing" bit i found in nplan so far.
<cyphermox> xnox: I'll upload macaddress today, probably
<cyphermox> if all goes well and autopkgtests pass
<xnox> all the bugs are in cloudinit Configdrive <-> netplan code
<xnox> #action gaughen to use actions
<meetingology> ACTION: gaughen to use actions
<slangasek> infinity not on channel
<slangasek> bdrung:
<slangasek> sigh
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> SRU queue reviews
<bdmurray> building snapport w/ whoopsie
<bdmurray> SRU of apport for zesty, yakkety, xenial, and trusty
<bdmurray> SRU of whoopsie for yakkety, xenial, and trusty
<bdmurray> talked to doko about crash autopkgtest failure - artful-proposed not on ddebs
<bdmurray> merged upstream apport into artful
<bdmurray> resolved apport autopkgtest failure on artful (fixed upstream too)
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding requeueing of old cores in production ET
<bdmurray> wrote code to remove EoL release core files added to daisy
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding update of staging ET
<bdmurray> SRU verification of apport and whoopsie for T, X, Y, Z
<bdmurray> upgraded desktop to Zesty
<bdmurray> added packages to gunnarhj's package set
<bdmurray> uploaded unattended-upgrades fix for LP: #1680599
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1680599 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "unattended-upgrades crashes without writing to the log on invalid config file entries" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1680599
<bdmurray> working on a fix for unattended-upgrades bug LP: #1649709
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1649709 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "unatttended-upgrades 0.92ubuntu3 installs all updates but update-manager is set to only install security automatically" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1649709
<bdmurray> submitted MP removing aufs support from u-r-u
<bdmurray> working with gdb dev regarding gdb hang
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> any questions on status?
<slangasek> gratuitous bot test: https://launchpad.net/bugs/1649709
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1649709 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "unatttended-upgrades 0.92ubuntu3 installs all updates but update-manager is set to only install security automatically" [Medium,In progress]
<slangasek> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1649709
<cyphermox> "<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #done #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #private_commands #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired"
<cyphermox> #idea use more of the commands, maybe?
<xnox> #subtopic investigate available commands
<cyphermox> some of these only work if you're chair
<slangasek> so no questions on status, then? :)
<cyphermox> not really
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else for today?
<cyphermox> well just a FYI maybe
<cyphermox> rbalint has prepared the libd-i merge, this would affect a few other d-i components that need rebuild
<bdmurray> slangasek: we were talking about artful-proposed and ddebs the other day and then doko noticed crash's autopkgtest failing because of that
<slangasek> oh?
<bdmurray> maybe it's artful-updates
<slangasek> right, some tests look for -updates before it's created
<bdmurray> I saw you were looking at ddeb-retriever is this fixable there?
<rbalint> cyphermox: i can prepare some more merges for the affected components instead of plain rebuilds
<slangasek> bdmurray: we could pre-create it there, yes
<cyphermox> rbalint: let's discuss this later
<rbalint> cyphermox: ok
<bdmurray> slangasek: that seems like a good idea to me
<slangasek> bdmurray: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ddeb-retriever ?
<slangasek> or, well, raise an MP :)
<cyphermox> slangasek: also, I noticed http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.artful/ isn't quite as fully developped as usual; but I haven't really dug in to see why.
<slangasek> hrm
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay
<slangasek> cyphermox: could it be the python3 switch?
<cyphermox> maybe, but it seems like half of it run?
<slangasek> cyphermox: I'd suggest asking cjwatson or infinity about that one
<cyphermox> as I said, would need to look at other places too
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> I just happened to notice it earlier when looking up something
<slangasek> bdmurray: (maybe add a bug task on canonical-foundations so we have central tracking)
<bdmurray> slangasek: Is that a project?
<slangasek> I think we created a private project of some kind for that, yes
<bdmurray> oh, so we did
<slangasek> ok; anything else today?
<slangasek> going once...
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 18 15:30:16 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-05-18-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-05-17
 * slangasek waves
<sil2100> o/
<rbalint> \o
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 17 15:01:17 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<juliank> o/
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke fginther juliank)
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke cyphermox infinity bdmurray slangasek tdaitx doko fginther rbalint mwhudson xnox sil2100 rcj philroche juliank
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke: here?
<Odd_Bloke> Skip me for a minute, please.
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<slangasek> hmm
<slangasek> bdmurray: ?
<bdmurray> oooh pick me
<bdmurray> uploaded apport to cosmic enabling LP crash reporting
<bdmurray> uploaded apport to cosmic fixing LP: #1766794, #1766740, #1766337, #1769262
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1769262 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "PythonDetails contains an error message if python not installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769262
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding removing a couple of core files from swift
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1766740 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "apport autopkgtest regression due to kernel packaging changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766740
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1766337 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "uncaught python exception : UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte; invalid continuation byte" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766337
<cyphermox> argh. I'm here.
<bdmurray> verified the prodcution update of the Error Tracker
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1766794 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "apport-collect doesn't create a ProblemType in the report" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766794
<bdmurray> contacted snappy team regarding a top crasher in the Error Tracker https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/f7700c88bfb3f65c5e092705c3fc42dc9b27c77b
<bdmurray> queried cassandra database for more details re Error Tracker snap crash
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding fixing of failed queue retracers (switch their queue)
<bdmurray> investigation into issue with the cassandra charm failing (DSE 5.1 nrpe check)
<bdmurray> updated https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Upgrades to indicate apt upgrading isn't supported
<bdmurray> SRU verification of update-manager bug for artful LP: #1624644
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1624644 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu Artful) "By default settings unattended-upgrade does not automatically remove packages that become unused in conjunction with updating by other software" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1624644
<bdmurray> special 16.04 SRU review of livecd-rootfs for cyphermox
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek>  * short week, sprinting and then on vacation through last Friday
<slangasek>   * reading/responding to piles of email
<slangasek>  * discussions around i386 support status post-18.04; getting myself quoted on LWN
<slangasek>  * work related to nvidia driver integration
<slangasek>  * merges for 18.10
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> tdaitx:
<sil2100> slangasek: oh! /me goes look for the quote
<tdaitx> * ca-certificates-java: merge (LP: #1769013), xenial/artful upgrades to bionic tests, update (LP: #1771363, https://salsa.debian.org/java-team/ca-certificates-java/merge_requests/1), merge (LP: #1769013), sru (LP: #1770553)
<tdaitx> * openjdk-7 security updates, backporting additional fixes, scyncing with icedtea fixes
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1769013 in ca-certificates-java (Ubuntu) "Please merge ca-certificates-java 20180413 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769013
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1771363 in ca-certificates-java (Ubuntu Bionic) "ca-certificates-java: convert PKCS12 cacerts keystore to JKS" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771363
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1770553 in ca-certificates-java (Ubuntu) "[SRU] backport ca-certificates-java from cosmic (20180516ubuntu1)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770553
<tdaitx> I was still writing, so it's not complete
<fginther> * Exercise and review a new testing module for a partner cloud
<fginther> * Updates to cloud image build pipeline for cosmic
<fginther> * Adding automatic build descriptions to image builds
<fginther> * Helping sil2100 test Raspberry Pi 3 images
<fginther> â done
<rbalint> * (highlight) finally got Ubuntu 18.04 on Windows released in the Store, it even runs on arm64!:
<rbalint>   https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/ubuntu-1804/9n9tngvndl3q
<rbalint> * updated gce-compute-image-packages
<rbalint> * tried to install bionic in a dual-boot setup with encrypted LVM, but hit bugs in every way :-\
<rbalint>   Some bugs are reported already, i reported LP: #1771823 which is hw-specific, and i need to report
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1771823 in linux (Ubuntu) "Please include ax88179_178a and r8152 modules in d-i udeb" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771823
<rbalint>   one where i set up all the partitions in advance and ubiquity still failed.
<rbalint>   imo LP: #1514120 should be fixed first and foremost
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1514120 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity needs to not disable the LVM and encryption options for dual boot" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1514120
<rbalint> * did some triaging of unattended-upgrades -related errors some of which included locking issues
<rbalint> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> * Varied cosmic-related cloud image opening tasks
<Odd_Bloke> * Worked on a few partner related issues
<Odd_Bloke> * Decided to reintroduce the -root.tar.xz artifact for bionic and later, at the request of multiple users
<Odd_Bloke> * Worked with the snapd team to address problems with using snaps during boot
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<cyphermox> - [HIGHLIGHT] blogged about my lab setup using MAAS and some netplan: https://goo.gl/CwTmT3
<cyphermox> - verifying netplan SRUs
<cyphermox> - SRUing initramfs-tools/netplan fixes for netboot (bug LP: #1769682)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1769682 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu Bionic) "NFS-based remote root hangs when running 'netplan apply'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769682
<cyphermox> - debugging/SRU verification for UEFI boot in grub (leading to an ARP storm) on 82599ES 10gig NIC (bug LP: #1437353)
<cyphermox> - investigating tg3/bridging issue in netplan (bug LP: #1759056)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1437353 in maas-images "UEFI network boot hangs at grub for adapter 82599ES 10-Gigabit SFI/SFP+" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437353
<cyphermox> - bugfix for shim-signed on upgrade (bug LP: #1770579) (bug LP: #1767091)
<cyphermox> - doc: troubleshooting page on netplan.io (canonical-websites/netplan.io PR:#42)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1759056 in netplan.io (Ubuntu) "[Ubuntu18.04][Witherspoon DD2.2] netplan fails to configure network bridge interface (tg3/BCM5719)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759056
<cyphermox> - doc: DebuggingSystemd wiki page to go with the above.
<cyphermox> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1770579 in shim-signed (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Failure to quote variable containing secureboot password (errors out with whitespace) package shim-signed 1.34.9+13-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: installed shim-signed package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 2" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770579
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1767091 in shim-signed (Ubuntu) "package shim-signed 1.34.9+13-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: installed shim-signed package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 30" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767091
<sil2100> xnox now?
<xnox> yes
<xnox> Upgrading btrfs-progs
<xnox> Upgrading mdadm
<xnox> Working on s390x/opencryptoki miss-compile bug
<xnox> Working on upgrading systemd, fixing up SRUs, for the next SRU cycle
<xnox> Done
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel SRUs
<sil2100> - security-britney:
<sil2100>   * Testing the prepared mojo spec on canonistack, making adjustments
<sil2100>   * Reading up and writing nagios checks
<xnox> i was not sure if it was my turn, or not.
<sil2100> - Fixing cron e-mails from ADT cloud instances
<sil2100> - ubuntu-core classic raspi3
<sil2100>   * Finishing work on a raspi3 classic gadget tree - all built from archive (...and PPA for now)
<sil2100>   * Tweaking ubuntu-image to allow lb cross-building for armhf (some back and forth here)
<sil2100>   * Patching livecd-rootfs to enable raspi3 rootfs generation
<sil2100>   * Building first images - don't seem to work but that's to be expected
<sil2100>   * Working on cleaning up all the bits and pieces and getting them merged
<sil2100> - Talk with mvo about core18 work to be done
<sil2100> - Enabling langpack-o-matic for bionic PPA updates
<sil2100>   * Discussion about .1 translation updates
<sil2100> (done)
<cyphermox> yay raspi3 image!
<sil2100> fginther: thanks for testing the image o/
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * cloud-images skunk works
<rcj> * cloud-images minimal stream generation for AWS AMIs in progress
<rcj> (done)
<juliank> philroche is out?
<Odd_Bloke> juliank: Yes.
<juliank> * rebased check-signed-kernels branch for grub and opened MP https://code.launchpad.net/~juliank/grub/+git/ubuntu/+merge/345403
<juliank> * ubuntu-sponsors sponsoring: gsequencer, simbody, gnutls28/trusty, ca-certificates-java
<juliank> * merged util-linux 2.32 and SRUed fixes for bug 1771345 to bionic, artful, and xenial
<ubottu> bug 1771345 in util-linux (Ubuntu Bionic) "lscpu possible crash in min/max frequency" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771345
<juliank> * started investigating noisy update-notifier-common cron job (bug 1641671)
<ubottu> bug 1641671 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Bionic) "Cronjob /etc/cron.daily/update-notifier-common sends too many e-mail messages" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1641671
<juliank> * started investigating trigger cycle in bug 1766890
<ubottu> bug 1766890 in gnome-menus (Ubuntu) "package gnome-menus 3.13.3-6ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766890
<juliank> * independently discovered bug 1771791 in system while investigating trigger cycle above
<ubottu> bug 1771791 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Need to pre-depend on stuff used by systemctl, so systemctl works in other package's preinst" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771791
<juliank> * rebased apport branch for bug 1732962, we need to decide on how to rollout that and do it, I guess
<ubottu> bug 1732962 in Apport "apport uses sys.argv instead of named arguments" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1732962
<juliank> (done)
<juliank> OK
<slangasek> did we miss anyone?
<slangasek> looks like not
<slangasek> questions over status?
<sil2100> No questions from me
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> anything we need to look at today for bugs?
<slangasek> (presumably in 18.04 SRU rather than 18.10, at this point?)
<bdmurray> rbalint was concerned about bug 1767875 and a couple more like it
<ubottu> bug 1767875 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/update-manager:ValueError:restart_icon_renderer_data_func:pkg_requires_restart:__get_candidate" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767875
<bdmurray> bug 1767876
<ubottu> bug 1767876 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/update-manager:ValueError:foreach_cb:is_selected:marked_install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767876
<bdmurray> bug 1768780
<ubottu> bug 1768780 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/update-manager:ValueError:foreach_cb:<listcomp>:packages_are_selected:is_selected:marked_install" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768780
<bdmurray> oh and bug 1768782
<ubottu> bug 1768782 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/update-manager:ValueError:pkg_toggle_renderer_data_func:is_selected:marked_install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768782
<bdmurray> juliank: you know what needs to happen here right?
<rbalint> bdmurray, i fixed the similar errors in u-u
<rbalint> bdmurray, basically not keeping references to python objects becoming invalid, just keeping package names in u-m
<juliank> bdmurray: um, it's a bit complex I think
<juliank> But yes, basically just keep name/version/id or something and use that
<juliank> s/id/hash/
<rbalint> imo we should take this bug because it totally breaks upgrades
<bdmurray> I just upgraded packages today
<bdmurray> This specific bucket has 12k instances https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/d9c36d9ae61a1fcae2f3f442e0b43890c93a262f
<bdmurray> So it seems like we should get on fixing it.
<bdmurray> Okay, so we'll create a card and getting it prioritized quickly.
<rbalint> +1
<gaughen> +1
<bdmurray> I've also seen a few bugs like bug 1768905 regarding triggers being unprocessed.
<ubottu> bug 1768905 in menu (Ubuntu) "package menu 2.1.47ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: dependency problems - leaving triggers unprocessed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768905
<bdmurray> dpkg: dependency problems prevent processing triggers for menu:
<bdmurray>  menu depends on libstdc++6 (>= 4.6); however:
<bdmurray>   Package libstdc++6:amd64 is not configured yet
<slangasek> well, ubuntukylin and ubuntu-mate both ship menu, so I guess we should care about that
<juliank> I'm more worried about the ordering bug
<juliank> in general :D
<bdmurray> Me too!
<bdmurray> There are also a couple of friendly-recovery bugs.
<bdmurray> One has a patch, bug 1766872 and the other I haven't recreated.
<ubottu> bug 1766872 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "'Enable Network' in recovery mode not working in Bionic" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766872
<bdmurray> I mean I just haven't tried.
<bdmurray> Bug 1767685
<ubottu> bug 1767685 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "recovery mode: recovery-menu linke 75: file or directory not found" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767685
<xnox> bdmurray, it's mine, it's in progress.
<xnox> bdmurray, let's move on.
<bdmurray> That's it then.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<rbalint> LP: #1770224 is something i can't workaround in u-u
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1770224 in apt (Ubuntu) "unattended-upgrades crashes with: apt_pkg.Error: E:Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770224
<xnox> maybe postpone this one for next week?
<rbalint> but i was late :-)
<slangasek> ok deferred for now, thanks
<slangasek> anything else?
<cyphermox> no ob from me
<gaughen> nothing from me
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 17 15:51:59 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-05-17-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks!
<sil2100> Thanks!
<gaughen> thank you!
<Wimpress> elopio: Bit late to say so, but I can't make the CC meeting today.
<Wimpress> wxl: ^
<wxl> Wimpress: since elopio and elacheche and yourself can't be here and no one else has said anything, i guess we're deferring
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-05-14
<cpaelzer> everyone in Lyon I guess?
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: doko: jamespage: jdstrand: in need for a MIR meeting this week?
<doko> cpaelzer: I'm back, but didn't look at MIRs yet ... I'm afraid, I didn't look at any non-mailman3 stuff
<cpaelzer> welcome back
<cpaelzer> I have nothing for this week to discuss either
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-05-16
<rbalint> o/
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<waveform> o/
<cyphermox> whose turn to chair?
<sil2100> I was a chair not long ago
<bdmurray> waveform was here last
<cyphermox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/MeetingScript
<sil2100> But then we bought real chairs
<cyphermox> sil2100: you did!! I brought mine!
<waveform> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 16 15:04:08 2019 UTC.  The chair is waveform. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<waveform> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<waveform> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<waveform> sil2100 infinity doko waveform juliank rbalint mwhudson xnox tdaitx vorlon bdmurray cyphermox
<cyphermox> #notrigged
<vorlon> noawaittrigged
<waveform> not at all :)
<waveform> sil2100, ?
<sil2100> Aaaaa
<sil2100> Ok, I'm not ready at all I noticed
<sil2100> Please skip me, I'll go last
<waveform> okay, me then:
<waveform> * Finished off pi-spec (out for review again)
<waveform> * Merging flash-kernel the old way (with m-o-m)
<waveform> * One visit to Robie later, merging flash-kernel *again* with git-ubuntu
<waveform> * If I never see flash-kernel again, it'll be too soon
<waveform> * But now it needs reviewing...
<waveform> (done)
<vorlon> waveform: where is it available for review?
<cyphermox> ugh, flash-kernel :(
<waveform> vorlon, pushed to a git branch on launchpad - will propose for merge once the ppa's finished building it and I've given it one more test
<sil2100> I'll look at it once it's sanity-tested
<waveform> sil2100, ta
<bdmurray> is doko about?
<bdmurray> juliank: is out this afternoon so rbalint?
<rbalint> (short weeks due to being sick :-()
<rbalint> * verified round of unattended-upgrades srus
<rbalint> * provided patch for LP: #1808446
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1808446 in Onboard "UnicodeDecodeError in AcpidListener" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1808446
<rbalint> * updated systemd fix again for LP: #1803993
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1803993 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Password appears on the VT1 screen" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1803993
<rbalint> * sru-d and verified kbd's LP: #520546
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520546 in linux (Ubuntu Disco) "Alt+KEY incorrectly behaves like Ctrl+Alt+KEY, and/or unwanted VT switch from Alt+Left/Right" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520546
<rbalint> * fixing LP: #1827930, review pending for all releases
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1827930 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Please generate tarball for WSL" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827930
<rbalint> * merged netkit-tftp
<rbalint> * synced globs to drop merged Ubuntu delta
<rbalint> * synced txtorcon to drop Python 2 binary package and already merged carried patch
<rbalint> * synced ofono-phonesim to drop delta adding upstart job and systemd service and phone simulator setup script
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> tdaitx: ?
<bdmurray> well I'm here so I'll go
<bdmurray> was educated about auto-upgrade-testing by jibel
<bdmurray> submitted MP for auto-upgrade-testing-specifications re dropping A to B upgrade testing
<bdmurray> merged auto-upgrade-testing-specifications changes w/ upgrades from C to D, D to E, dropping upgrades with edubuntu
<bdmurray> submitted MP for auto-upgrade-testing regarding using the dist-upgrade from -proposed
<bdmurray> fixed existing flake8 issues with auto-upgrade-testing which blocked CI
<bdmurray> dug into and resolved issue with DistUpgradeNonInteractive failing LP: #1796193
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1796193 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "DistUpgradeViewNonInteractive crashes / requires interaction" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796193
<bdmurray> wrote a test for LP: #1796193, uploaded SRUs of it for B, C, D
<bdmurray> uploaded SRU fix for LP: #1824866 regarding B
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1824866 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "python3-distupgrade missing a dep on python3-distro-info" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824866
<bdmurray> verified the fix for the above SRU for C and D
<bdmurray> "special" SRU reviews for cloud-init, initramfs-tools, ubuntu-image, and horizon
<bdmurray> recreated bug 1825211 thanks to info from automatic upgrade testing
<ubottu> bug 1825211 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "package menu 2.1.47ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825211
<bdmurray> meetings regarding rls- tagged bug backlog and review of bugs
<bdmurray> done
<bdmurray> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> looking into ä»¤å (Reiwa) era support gaps (and an old glibc wcwidth rls-x bug that seems related)
<cyphermox> netplan.io SRU verification
<cyphermox> reviewing old rls-* bugs with Brian and Julian
<cyphermox> more revising of the DKMS whitepaper
<cyphermox> sponsored dkms fix for OBSOLETE_BY (bug LP: #1828948)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1828948 in DKMS "OBSOLETE_BY in DKMS.CONF not work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1828948
<cyphermox> started work on netplan feature flags / netplan info command
<cyphermox> PR reviews and minor bugfix for netplan
<cyphermox> (done)
<waveform> so, just sil2100?
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - First monthly SRU meeting
<sil2100> - Some kernel SRU work
<sil2100> - Preparing base translations for eoan, setting up langpack-o-matic schedule
<sil2100> - Some code reviews of livecd-rootfs and autopkgtest branches
<sil2100> - Preparing and uploading ubuntu-image 1.7, started testing
<sil2100> - Spec reviews (pi amazing, core release process)
<sil2100> - Finished up latest changes to the core18 promotion scripts, finalizing jenkins jobs
<bdmurray> I went to that SRU meeting
<sil2100> - Started work on the flash-kernel merge with Dave (gave a quick overview of what's what)
<sil2100> - Some pre-NEW package review work
<sil2100> - Looking into the grub package update cases in preinstalled u-i built classic images
<sil2100> (done)
<waveform> #topic Team proposed-migration report
<waveform> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<bdmurray> We are going to skip the rls tagged bugs this week since we are not many.
<rbalint> lintian is still on upstream
<bdmurray> waiting on?
<rbalint> yes
<bdmurray> I forget has anybody looked at libnet-ssleay-perl?
<cyphermox> I don't remember if we talked about it before
<bdmurray> it looks like it was xnox's upload last
<sil2100> Seeing that xnox's not really here right now, let's assign it to it
<sil2100> s/it/him
<rbalint> curl is xnox's too :-)
<rbalint> systemd general flakiness is on my plate
<xnox> hahahhahahha
<xnox> ok
<bdmurray> LocutusOfBorg: Are you planning on looking at curl?
<sil2100> ;D
<waveform> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<sil2100> Not from me
<bdmurray> Nor me
<rbalint> nope
<waveform> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 16 15:25:58 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-05-16-15.04.moin.txt
<sil2100> o/
<rbalint> o/
<sil2100> waveform: thanks for chairing!
<LocutusOfBorg> bdmurray, ack
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-05-12
<joeubuntu> morning.
<ddstreet> o/
<cpaelzer> hi MIR-party people
<cpaelzer> joeubuntu: ddstreet: didrocks: jamespage: sarnold: doko: o/
<cpaelzer> let's get this started
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 12 13:00:27 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<didrocks> hey
<cpaelzer> #1 of last week (and before) was finding a new time for the meeting
<cpaelzer> to allow US-west to have a better chance
<cpaelzer> in the meantime doko added his availability and 90min after the current time seems to be the best option still
<cpaelzer> there was one question sleft
<cpaelzer> which is which timezone (and thereby daylight saving we anchor this to)
<cpaelzer> so far it is anchored to Europe/Berlin
<doko> hi
<cpaelzer> and I'd suggest to keep it that way - and opinions to not do so?
<didrocks> Iâm fine with that (we can adjust for the 2 intermediate weeks when everyone hasnât switched yet)
<cpaelzer> maybe since everone has e.g. US-anchored meetings around that time?
<cpaelzer> didrocks: I agree - those two weeks won't hurt too much
<cpaelzer> didrocks: also more and more regions stop switching
<cpaelzer> and we can revisit if ever this becomes a permanent problem
<ddstreet> could anchor it to UTC
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: which means it moves for everone all the time :-/
<didrocks> cpaelzer: hopefully, Europe will finally do it after last year vote as well :)
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: we had that in other meetings and it didn't work well for us
<ddstreet> except people who don't use dst, isn't europe dropping it?
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: that is the plann
<cpaelzer> but who knows
<didrocks> (not done yet though)
<joeubuntu> 90 minutes later sounds great to me.
<cpaelzer> ok - to make progress - I'll shift it by 90min back and keep it in Europe/Berlin - we will revisit if that becomes an issue for anyone
<ddstreet> sounds good
<cpaelzer> 10 seconds to intervene otherwise this is decided ...
<ddstreet> i think your 10 second timer is slow ;)
<didrocks> ddstreet: depending on which TZ :p
<cpaelzer> hehe
<cpaelzer> I was checking who owns the meeting as he is the one changing it for everyone
<cpaelzer> doko: seems to be you
<cpaelzer> I'd do the wiki update, would you bump the meeting by 90minutes then?
<doko> ok
<joeubuntu> woot sarnold can join more easily now.
<cpaelzer> that was part of why we discussed that
<cpaelzer> give me a few secs now
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> topic #2
<cpaelzer> I've sent an info to all of you that I'd like to allow the meeting "host" to precheck the links and bug lists and skip agenda-entries if there is nothing
<cpaelzer> I just want to make this more efficient for everyone
<cpaelzer> the text I sent I'd add to the wiki as well
<cpaelzer> unless there are problems with that suggestion
<cpaelzer> so are there any?
<ddstreet> +1
<didrocks> as responded on the email, +1 on that
<doko> I assume if someone is forgetting that he is host, we'll have the meeting anyway
<joeubuntu> +1
<cpaelzer> exactly
<doko> ok
<cpaelzer> great
<cpaelzer> #2 done as well
<cpaelzer> thanks
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<cpaelzer> that has a few new entries
<cpaelzer> not sure if anyone has context on these thou
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cpaelzer> freeradius/maas/gpsd/apport are covered afaik
<cpaelzer> we only need to talk about the others
<cpaelzer> does anyone have background (or feel like your team is responsible to resolve) debian-goodies / kazoo / sphinx / paramiko /libmoox-struct-perl ?
<doko> I'll do those, these are perl/foundations
<cpaelzer> thanks
<cpaelzer> and in general we are early in the cycle and none of these have to be gone this week, but sooner or later they need to be resolved as all of them represent proposed-migration being stalled by mismatches
<cpaelzer> great next would be the bug lists
<cpaelzer> but here the new fast-path helps
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> is empty
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> has one entry that I have taken care of
<cpaelzer> no need to stall and we can go right to
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> well, anything?
<didrocks> nothing for me
<cpaelzer> becasue despite my striving for efficiency I don't wnat to cut anyones right for (text)-speech :-)
 * cpaelzer is affected by shifting-chars ....
<doko> nothing from me
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> lets add the approximate 10 seconds for any last chance
<cpaelzer> 5
<doko> ahh, you already fixed gpsd
<cpaelzer> yes
<joeubuntu> nothing for me.
<cpaelzer> 3
<cpaelzer> 1
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> thanks everyone
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 12 13:14:56 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-05-12-13.00.moin.txt
<joeubuntu> bye!
<didrocks> thanks cpaelzer & everyone
<ddstreet> thanks! o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-05-14
<bdmurray> o/
<slyon> o/
<juliank> o/
<rbalint> o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 14 15:01:38 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
<bdmurray> sil2100 waveform doko mwhudson tdaitx infinity juliank bdmurray vorlon slyon xnox rbalint
<bdmurray> sil2100 sent his status by email
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Lots more work in uc20 boot issues...
<waveform> * Investigated how NOOBS directs the pi's boot firmware to different partitions
<waveform> * ... and whether Ubuntu can do this (yes, allegedly, but no successful replication yet)
<waveform> * ... and whether u-boot can currently do this (no) or could do this (probably)
<waveform> * Wrote up a fairly detailed description of the Pi's boot process; writing a full spec based on that (incomplete)
<waveform> * Figured out what was broken in the prior u-boot merge; working on 2020.04 merge
<waveform> (done)
<bdmurray> doko:
<bdmurray> lets skip him now
<bdmurray> tdaitx sent in his by email
<bdmurray> juliank: !
<juliank> * sponsored python-apt SRUs for waveform (LP: #1311056)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1311056 in python-apt (Ubuntu Eoan) "[SRU] apt-add-repository adds duplicate commented/disabled source lines" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1311056
<juliank> * apt security update (LP: #1866113)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1866113 in dino-im (Ubuntu Bionic) "CVE-2019-16235, CVE-2019-16236, CVE-2019-16237" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1866113
<juliank> * migrating APT CI to use autopkgtest to test as-installed, instead of in-tree
<juliank>   - the test for ^ passed on CI but failed on autopkgtest
<juliank> I forgot what happened friday
<juliank> (done)
<doko> sorry, late
<bdmurray> that's okay, ready now?
<doko> - started looking into GCC test results:
<doko>   - Fixed gnat testsuite not finding the shared libgnat_util under test
<doko>   - Fixed the openmp related test failures in the g++ tests, turned out
<doko>     a test setup issue with the offload compilers, requiring some packaging
<doko>     changes.
<doko>   - Reported gm2 test failures upstream.
<doko>   - Fixed including the libstdc++ test results in the gcc-test-results package
<doko>   - Include the jit test results
<doko>   - Fixed two libphobos test failures
<doko>   - Reported an issue with the amdgcn offload compiler upstream, requiring
<doko>     a fix in LLVM and GCC.
<doko> - binutils:
<doko>   - Update from the 3.34 branch
<doko>   - First try at packaging trunk/2.35.
<doko> - Python 3.8.3 release, python3.8 and python3-stdlib-extensions uploads.
<doko> - meetings about +1 maintenance
<doko> (done)
<juliank> CORRECTION: oops I linked the wrong security bug, it was LP: #1878177
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1878177 in apt (Ubuntu) "CVE-2020-3810 out-of-bound stack reads in arfile" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878177
<bdmurray> updated meta-release files for 20.04 and groovy
<bdmurray> review of bug reports re upgrades from 19.10
<bdmurray> merged and uploaded groovy apport fix for LP: 1871185
<bdmurray> uploaded focal SRU fix for the above
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1871185 in apport (Ubuntu Focal) "urls in ubuntu-bug's dialog not really clickable" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871185
<bdmurray> accidental investigation of LP: #1871800
<bdmurray> uploaded aptdaemon to groovy fixing LP: #1700810
<bdmurray> uploaded aptdaemon SRUs for the above to X, B, E, F
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1871801 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "duplicate for #1871800 ubuntu-release-upgrader translation is broken focal" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871801
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1700810 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Focal) "aptdaemon's crash.py file is not working" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700810
<bdmurray> uploaded tzdata 2020a update for X, B, E, F, G
<bdmurray> SRU verification of the above
<bdmurray> prepared a tzdata 2020a update for T
<bdmurray> uploaded a fix for LP: #1774843 to B, E, and G
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1774843 in apport (Ubuntu Eoan) "apport python exception for python versions which python-apt is not built on" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1774843
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon>  * short week, was out Tuesday and half of Wednesday
<vorlon>  * SRU work
<vorlon>  * nudging proposed-migration along for the various archive opening transitions still in progress
<vorlon>  * relatedly, discussions around restaffing +1 maintenance
<vorlon>  * UC20 release discussions
<vorlon> * discussing ssh environment bug LP: #1659719
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1659719 in snapd (Ubuntu) "ssh can't call a binary from a snap without the full path" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1659719
<vorlon> (done)
<bdmurray> slyon:
<slyon> == Distro ==
<slyon> - Researched bug #1871801 and #1871800
<slyon>   * Seems to be invalid.
<slyon>   * English dpkg messages in the embedded terminal on purpose.
<slyon>     (It has been that way since many years.)
<slyon>   * Broken translation in UI/screenshot could not be reproduced.
<slyon> - Researched bug #1876884
<ubottu> bug 1871801 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "duplicate for #1871800 ubuntu-release-upgrader translation is broken focal" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871801
<slyon>   * Related to dropbear-initramfs / initramfs-tools
<ubottu> bug 1871801 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "ubuntu-release-upgrader translation is broken focal" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871801
<ubottu> bug 1876884 in dropbear (Ubuntu Groovy) "netplan using incorrect renderer" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876884
<slyon>   * Initramfs network config is not cleaned up propery, before booting
<slyon>     into the real system.
<slyon> - Fixed autopkgtests for python-httplib2 (again)
<slyon>   * Now using upstream's non-deprecated test-suite
<slyon>   * Debdiff awaiting review/sponsor:
<slyon>     https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/T2vBYYjgpG/
<slyon> == Netplan ==
<slyon> - Prepared patch & SRU for bond mode regression: bug #1877643
<slyon>   * Only affects Bionic series.
<ubottu> bug 1877643 in netplan.io (Ubuntu Bionic) "netplan.io 0.98 introduced more strict parsing of bonding mode, causing failures at boot for existing systems" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1877643
<slyon>   * Pending in Unapproved queue.
<slyon> - Researched & fixed bug #1874494
<slyon>   * PR is merged upstream
<ubottu> bug 1874494 in netplan.io (Ubuntu Focal) "netplan apply does not remove systemd service for wlan0 after config removed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874494
<slyon> - Researched & fixed bug #1817651
<slyon>   * Reported by Juju guys in #server
<ubottu> bug 1817651 in netplan.io (Ubuntu) "Primary slave on the bond not getting set." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1817651
<slyon>   * PR#136 is awaiting review upstream
<slyon> - Documented release version of new config keys
<slyon>   * PR#137 is awaiting review upstream
<slyon> - Initial review & feedback for PR#84
<slyon>   * nm: support route attributes "from", "onlink", and "table"
<slyon>     and "match.interface-name"
<slyon>   * Brings NM/networkd feature parity for match/routes
<slyon>   * Requires NetworkManager > 1.10 (bionic) for some parts
<slyon> - Working on first feedback for NM netplan r/w plugin
<slyon> (done)
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> Subiquity reviews for cve / i18n
<xnox> UC20 fun with fixing reported bugs from cert/qa
<xnox> too much modules or not enough firmware
<xnox> unmounting mounted things
<xnox> subiquity netboot improvements
<xnox> subiquity bootspeed improvements
<xnox> pi package reviews
<xnox> done
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * uploads via Debian: unattended-upgrades 2.4, meld 3.20.2-2
<rbalint> * systemd 245.5-2ubuntu2
<rbalint> * syncs: breezy-debian, ssmtp
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> (don)
<rbalint> e
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> sorting by importance ;-)
<bdmurray> the first one I targetted this morning as we talked about it last week
<bdmurray> the dbus one we said was desktop
<bdmurray> bug 1877175 - doko what is the status of this?
<ubottu> bug 1877175 in gcc-10 (Ubuntu) "lib32stdc++6 is not installable with 10-20200502-1ubuntu1" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1877175
<doko> bdmurray: as documented in the bug, in progress.
<bdmurray> bug 1875501 - does anybody remember budapest?
<ubottu> bug 1875501 in command-not-found (Ubuntu) "Remove empty lines from output" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875501
<bdmurray> doko: should we have a card for it?
<doko> gcc-10 is trying to build since May 7
<doko> I'd like to avoid the overhead
<bdmurray> okay as long as the changelog closes it! ;-)
<doko> seriously, the bug was submitted after the upload
<bdmurray> we'll target and card bug 1875501
<ubottu> bug 1875501 in command-not-found (Ubuntu) "Remove empty line from output" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875501
<bdmurray> bug 1860826
<ubottu> bug 1860826 in pam (Ubuntu) "pam_unix(sudo:auth): Couldn't open /etc/securetty: No such file or directory" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1860826
<vorlon> card it
<mclemenceau> ok
<bdmurray> bug 1876182
<ubottu> bug 1876182 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Running do-release-upgrade displays text two-decades out-of-date" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876182
<rbalint> +1
<bdmurray> Maybe have design look at it?
<vorlon> seems like a reasonable bug to fix but not a high enough priority to warrant targeting
<vorlon> I don't think I've ever read that text before in my life
<bdmurray> tagged notfixing
<bdmurray> bug 1862503
<ubottu> bug 1862503 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer crashed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862503
<bdmurray> bug 1867542 - too many zsys snapshots?
<ubottu> bug 1867542 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub stuck on loading kernel, fails to ls zfs and swap partitions" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867542
<vorlon> I think that needs to be assigned to the Desktop Team to look at; while there may be something that needs fixing in grub, having the list of snapshots grow without bounds is unreasonable
<vorlon> so open a task on zsys?
<bdmurray> are they subscribed to that?
<bdmurray> oh, yes they are
<bdmurray> vorlon: can you add a comment to that affect?
<vorlon> also I think I saw sarnold report this bug somewhere else
<vorlon> yeah
<bdmurray> bug 1874287
<ubottu> bug 1874287 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity must allow debconf database access when ubuntu-drivers executes apt-get install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874287
<xnox> we should take it
<xnox> card it
<bdmurray> xnox could you expand on what it means though?
<xnox> bdmurray:  typing in the bug
<bdmurray> bug 1874310
<ubottu> bug 1874310 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "downloading and installing updates may result in stray packages installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874310
<mclemenceau> carded
<bdmurray> bug 1874714
<ubottu> bug 1874714 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Display an information when filesystem check failed or has been skipped" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874714
<bdmurray> bug 1876035 - julian have you seen this?
<ubottu> bug 1876035 in apt (Ubuntu) "Consider making '-o Acquire::Retries=3' the default for 'apt-get update/install/dist-upgrade'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876035
<juliank> need to investigate
<bdmurray> taking that one
<bdmurray> bug 1877618
<ubottu> bug 1877618 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "20.04 fails to boot via PXE (amd64) - "hidden .disk not found, and hard to discover"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1877618
<bdmurray> vorlon so that one doesn't seem worth carding
<vorlon> bdmurray: agreed at this point
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/groovy/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> juliank: apt-clone vs python-apt was yours from last week, did you look at it?
<juliank> Unfortunately not
<vorlon> will you look at it this week?
 * doko has still to do the *-perl packages
<juliank> I shall think so
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> doko: yes; libmoox-struct-perl and its dependency MIR?
<vorlon> doko: you'll do that this week?
<doko> yes
<vorlon> ok
<doko> tomorrow
<vorlon> pyyaml
<bdmurray> xnox: you did add a ubiquity task to bug 1870408 but I'll close that in favor of jibel's bug
<ubottu> bug 1870408 in casper (Ubuntu) "casper-md5check should leave a breadcrumb which apport, ubiquity, subiquity could use" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870408
<vorlon> this one needs some follow-through due to old versions of llvm that we can't get rid of from the archive, and they build binaries depending on the python2 bindings
<xnox> bdmurray:  ack
<vorlon> so who would like to take pyyaml
<vorlon> xnox: ?
<rbalint> i take pyyaml
<vorlon> ok, rbalint, thanks!
<vorlon> re2 is a lib transition with tentacles
<vorlon> xnox can have that one
<xnox> thanks....
<bdmurray> vim looks like a timeout
<vorlon> vim is missing build on riscv64 and cyrus-imapd autopkgtest regression; I'll have a look
<waveform> gallery-dl on requests could be a timeout on armhf - not sure
<doko> w grant changed the riscv64 buildds, might be worth a retry first
<vorlon> requests, autopkgtest regression: waveform you can look into this
<waveform> will do
<vorlon> libxcrypt: reproducible autopkgtest regression, could be flakiness but it's very flaky
<vorlon> bdmurray: ^^ ?
<bdmurray> vorlon: okay
<vorlon> sphinx needs libjs-mathjax promoted, so that's probably a real MIR
<vorlon> slyon: would you like to learn the MIR process this week?
<slyon> vorlon, yes
<vorlon> slyon: thanks :)
<slyon> will look into it
<vorlon> libyaml-libyaml-perl, (real) autopkgtest regressions
<vorlon> rbalint: ^^ would you like another?
<rbalint> vorlon, sure, taking
<vorlon> apt-clone, probably shakes out from juliank's investigation vs python-apt
<vorlon> libre-engine-re2-perl, tied to re2
<xnox> ack
<vorlon> libgd2, autopkgtest regressions, I'll look
<vorlon> numpy: mclemenceau: would you like this?
<mclemenceau> I will give it a shot
<vorlon> gcc-10, already discussed
<vorlon> and libberkeleydb-perl, looks like i386 binary cleanup, I'll follow through
<vorlon> and done
<vorlon> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> okay let's wrap then since we are over
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 14 16:01:19 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-05-14-15.01.moin.txt
<bdmurray> Thanks everyone!
<rbalint> o/
<slyon> o/
<mclemenceau> o/
<juliank> o&
<juliank> o/
 * juliank is in us layout atm
<vorlon> thanks!
<xnox> tah
<rbalint> juliank, oÃ
