#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-08
<TheSheep> knome: guess what!
<TheSheep> knome: I got myself a cintiq!
<knome> TheSheep, what?
<knome> cintiq?
<TheSheep> 12wx
<knome> doesn't ring the bells
<TheSheep> a wacom tablet
<knome> aha
<TheSheep> with a screen
<knome> :)
<knome> heh
<charlie-tca> xubuntu meeting today at 19:00
<charlie-tca> I plan to bring up release documentation/checklists
<charlie-tca> and blueprints
<charlie-tca> Sure would be good to have all concerned with getting a release milestone out there
<micahg> charlie-tca: I had no response from mr_pouit over the weekend, so we can discuss seed changes at the meeting
<charlie-tca> okay, I think we have discussed before, though. If we can't a response, let's get them done
<charlie-tca> We don't really have days to wait now
<charlie-tca> so, make the best decision in your mind
<charlie-tca> micahg: We only have three days to Feature Freeze now
<micahg> well, I'll do an upload tomorrow night or wed then
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I apologize if we are stepping on toes here, we really need to get the seeds done.
<ochosi> charlie-tca: just wanted to say i'm swamped at work, so i'll more or less off for this week and the next
<charlie-tca> Okay, any updates?
<GridCube> :) hellp
<GridCube> s/hellp/hello
<GridCube> charlie-tca: :D i've done a simple condicional format to the "form made sheet" so now if people add "pass" the cell will turn green and if they add "fail" it will turn red :D
<GridCube> I still don't know if you want me to edit the form to group tests for particular days
<charlie-tca> GridCube: I appreciate all the effort, but I still am not sure we don't want to insist people look first at the spreadsheet. I don't anyone doing the same test everyday, and by looking, you see what has/hasnot been done
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> it was just an idea
<charlie-tca> I agree the form is easier to use, but I need to know we are covering all the testing, too
<Unit193> I may actually have time today
<GridCube> talking about ideas, I am working on the top 10 FAQ but it takes a lot of time to parse all those questions to see those that appear more often, i already have 3, not fully answerd that I think are very common and useful to know
<charlie-tca> That's great!
<charlie-tca> At least you got a start, right?
<GridCube> :) yes
<GridCube> want to see what i have?
<charlie-tca> sure
<charlie-tca> We don't have the website yet, so there is time
<GridCube> http://pastebin.com/1eQjA8ve
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> i do have to check the answers to see that they are correct
<ochosi> charlie-tca: sorry, no real updates this time
<ochosi> have a nice meeting everyone!
<charlie-tca> Thank you, ochosi 
<charlie-tca> GridCube: actually, for compiz, if they have issues after installing, good luck
<charlie-tca> We can do very little to help them
<GridCube> hahaha
<GridCube> yeah
<GridCube> but thats not like the thing you want to say, they come to the channel and ask and we say, yeah well it should work,
<GridCube> XD
<charlie-tca> lol
<charlie-tca> I guess you are correct, even if I do like my answer :)
<GridCube> I don't think I can get back to my home in time for today's meeting, so thats why i wanted to give you some progress reports :)
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will add that to the meeting too.
<charlie-tca> look right to me
<Unit193> Aww, crap
<charlie-tca> why?
<charlie-tca> oh, yeah, I might have changed the spreadsheet a touch too, this weekend
<Unit193> Na, it just wasn't in the topic :P  What did you change? (Doing Live and entire unless you want other)
<charlie-tca> that's good
<charlie-tca> what wasn't it topic?
<charlie-tca> images are working, aren't they?
<Unit193> Nothing that matters. Looks like we will be missing a few at this meeting, I should be able :? (The reason I think I can attent is what I don't like)
<micahg> do the live CDs have the user list still?
<Unit193> I've got "Other" only
<charlie-tca> That's the user list, and we won't get Ubuntu in it until they fix lightdm
<Unit193> Good luck.
<charlie-tca> add them to my "got to go push this again" list
<micahg> no, I thought when I added accountsservice that we got the list with Ubuntu in it on the live media
 * micahg was about to file a bug to have the dependencies fixed
<Unit193> After the test for today, I'll test slim and/or LXDM just to see what they look like :P
<charlie-tca> not that one, micahg. We get our usernames now after installing, but for auto-login to the live cd, ubuntu is hard coded to only work for ubuntu sessions
<charlie-tca> how about bug 819609
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 819609 in casper (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Oneiric live CD boots to login screen" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819609
<charlie-tca> which is not fixed for anyone except Ubuntu?
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, that means we're missing a dependency in the live env I guess
<charlie-tca> no, it means we do not start a ubuntu session
<charlie-tca> They hard coded lightdm to start a session named ubuntu only
<micahg> was just wondering about the user list, not the session
<charlie-tca> how about bug 799754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 799754 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Please let vendors easily provide their own config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799754
<charlie-tca> but a user should not even see a list for live sessions
<micahg> still even with the default config, we should have a user list like Ubuntu I would think
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu never sees the user list for a live session, because it auto-login working
<charlie-tca> We have a user list for installs now
<charlie-tca> We just can't have the user Ubuntu in the live cd user list
<charlie-tca> because we have no session for it
<charlie-tca> Since the only authorized session for live sessions now is Ubuntu, it somewhat limits the rest of us
<charlie-tca> micahg: I raised in #ubuntu-desktop
<micahg> did anyone call?
<charlie-tca> cyphermox will follow up with Robert Ancell
<charlie-tca> I will have to keep at them, I guess
<Unit193> "Al[pha3 not released" ? 
<charlie-tca> correct
<Unit193> Alpha3 maybe?
<charlie-tca> Alpha3 not released for xubuntu, desktop cd would not allow any installs
<charlie-tca> alternate cd would destroy all data on HD if /home is encrypted
<charlie-tca> where is that?
<Unit193> GDoc
<Unit193> s/Al[pha/Alpha/g ?
<charlie-tca> okay, I fixed it
<charlie-tca> At least I got all the letters in, right?
<charlie-tca> one or two extra, maybe, but all the right ones, too
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 18 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<Unit193> Install seems to be running slower, could just be the connection/computer, hope it's done by then
<madnick> Unit193: the alternate cd?
<Unit193> Nope, Doesn't really matter as it JUST finished
<madnick> :)
<charlie-tca> I thought it was a bit slow here, too, now
<charlie-tca> Not sure why, but the alternate install is faster then the desktop install
<madnick> That was untrue for me, infact the alternate cd recently have taken me ~1Â½-2 hours
<Unit193> Wow... I actually have a user to click.. odd
<charlie-tca> micahg: ^  ^  user list is there after the installation
<micahg> \o/
<charlie-tca> Unit193: pick the second xubuntu session, of course. 
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Yep, did that but jockey didn't autoload (Not really anything)
<charlie-tca> It didn't?
<charlie-tca> it keeps trying to install proprietary drivers for me in a live session
 * charlie-tca sees that even in VBox, and then it says there are no drivers
<Unit193> I get that too, but there are drivers to get
<Unit193> genii-around: Howdy mate
<genii-around> Unit193: Figured I'd sit in on a meeting, after checking the agenda :)
<Unit193> genii-around: Great time to watch me be an IRC idiot ;)
<Unit193> 0_o  The following packages will be REMOVED: synaptic
<charlie-tca> Should be easy today, we have a bot again
<charlie-tca> Unit193: on a fresh install?
<charlie-tca> Is it adding it back again?
<micahg> we still install synaptic?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Correct, sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, micahg : we will need synaptic seeded
<charlie-tca> micahg: yes
<charlie-tca> Synaptic Package Manager
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu is taking it off the default list, but we are keeping it
<charlie-tca> We talked about that a while back in a meeting
<micahg> charlie-tca: already a depends, I think it should be a recommends though
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit said we would be keeping it when Ubuntu removes it
<charlie-tca> They are trying to insist users only use the software center
<micahg> right, we've had it seeded for a while
<charlie-tca> Then why is it removing it?
<micahg> but I think we should drop it to a recommends so it's removable for those people that don't want it
<charlie-tca> But updates should not remove it
<micahg> that's a good question, something must conflict
<micahg> ah, it's been moved to recommends
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I'll finish updates, reboot and rerun them
<charlie-tca> whether it is depends or recommends, it still not be removed
<micahg> no, if it's recommends, it can be removed
<charlie-tca> whether it is depends or recommends, it still should *not* be removed by updating
<micahg> we just need to find out why and make it stop
<micahg> charlie-tca: not true, depends what the apt resolver comes up with
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> it comes up with Ubuntu saying remove it
<micahg> recommends can be removed to make a depends work
<micahg> Unit193: you still have the upgrade pending?
<charlie-tca> Do we need a bug on it?
<Unit193> micahg: Running, I'll sudo apt-get install it in a sec
<Unit193> *Downloading
<micahg> Unit193: hold on, I can give you a command to try
<micahg> to show why it wants to remove synaptic
<Unit193> ctrl+c the updates or no?
<micahg> Unit193: yeah, if it's not installing yet
<Unit193> micahg: Got it
<micahg> sudo apt-get -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true -o Debug::pkgDepCache::AutoInstall=true upgrade
 * charlie-tca thinks "let's have a meeting", as soon as micahg is ready
<micahg> well, there was a new apt uploaded, so synaptic probably just needs a rebuild
<charlie-tca> oh, that's right
<micahg> ah, already rebuilt
<micahg> or at least uploaded
<charlie-tca> Might have to give it a day or two to work things out again?
<micahg> Unit193: nevermind, I think I can fix this
<micahg> charlie-tca: probably, someone will just have to retry builds later
<micahg> let's start the meeting
<Unit193> micahg: Alright, running as normal I guess...
<micahg> Unit193: or wait until synaptic is upgraded :)
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> Let's have a meeting then
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug  8 19:02:31 2011 UTC.  The chair is charlie-tca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<charlie-tca> This is the Xubuntu Community Weekly Meeting
<charlie-tca> The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> * Old business
<charlie-tca> * Team updates
<charlie-tca>   * Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca>   * Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca>   * Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca>   * Artwork
<charlie-tca>   * Documentation
<charlie-tca> * Announcements
<charlie-tca> * Governance structure
<charlie-tca> * Any Other Business
<charlie-tca> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<charlie-tca> anyone not here, please speak up?
<knome> i'm not here
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Old Business ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Old Business ===
 * knome hides
<charlie-tca> noted, knome missing 
<charlie-tca> Thanks for letting us know
<knome> no, i think i am here
<ChristopherNG> hey folks first time at this meeting
 * knome feels his body
<ChristopherNG> really excited
<charlie-tca> Welcome, ChristopherNG 
<knome> definitely here!
<charlie-tca> Great! we are all here now
 * micahg still doesn't see mr_pouit 
<charlie-tca> I have not had a chance to dig up the info on Xscreensaver
 * pleia2 waves
<charlie-tca> it was a bad week
<charlie-tca>  * GridCube to put together the "TOP 10" for Xubuntu - Carried Forward
<charlie-tca> GridCube is working on this already. It will done in time for Oneiric's release
<charlie-tca> * madnick to look into building a lightdm greeter
<knome> o/
<charlie-tca> I know this got started
<madnick> o/
<charlie-tca> go ahead, knome 
<knome> will the top 10 be put in the website, and/or any other media?
<charlie-tca> yes, it will go on the website
<charlie-tca> one more reason for users to go to the website
<charlie-tca> but it will be a static list
<charlie-tca> Go ahead, madnick 
<madnick> Okay, Ive looked into modifying the Unity-greeter for Xubuntu, and I have that running on my machine, but I have not worked more on it
<madnick> Because the lightdm deal seems a bit uncertain: bugs/replacement etc
 * charlie-tca nods
<madnick> Also I would need input on the theme to use as well
<madnick> ..
<knome> madnick, if you need any assistance on the theme, just ping me
<madnick> knome: thank you :)
<knome> madnick, we can go it through after the meeting if you want
<madnick> that would be awesome :)
<knome> good
<charlie-tca> (..?)
<madnick> ..
<charlie-tca> knome ?
<charlie-tca> done?
<knome> yup
<charlie-tca> Thanks for working on that. 
<charlie-tca> Yes, there are still several bugs against lightdm that have to get ironed out. I have been talking to quite a few people about that.
<charlie-tca>  * GridCube to do comparison chart for gpicview, ristretto, gthumb - Done
<charlie-tca> This was added to the gimp comparisons. 
<charlie-tca> I think we should go for gthumb here, and just leave gimp alone this cycle. We can replace ristretto with gthumb, get more capability for the users, and still have gimp.
<charlie-tca> comments?
<charlie-tca> ..
<knome> i'm not completely sure that's the best thing to do, but i can live with gimp there
<knome> ..
<Unit193> Anything that can cycle images
<Unit193> ..
<knome> in #xfce-dev there was some discussion about new features committed in the ristretto master
<charlie-tca> Thank you for the inputs.
<knome> ..
<charlie-tca> but do we want to keep ristretto and add gthumb? gthumb lets you rotate, crop, resize, etc. on your photos, along with image viewing.
<knome> i understand the new features had something to do with rotating. and ristretto *is* an xfce project/app, which is a big plus imo
<knome> ..
<charlie-tca> Want to investigate it deeper, then, and let us know if it will work as well?
<charlie-tca> We just got word that removing synaptic is causing segfaults. If you are running Oneiric, don't remove synaptic without checking in #ubuntu+1 for updates
<knome> it's probable that those improvements are not going to be ready for use in oneiric. maybe for the next lts, which means it might be wise to stick with ristretto for now and forget gthumb, since as we are keeping gimp, users have a tool for those actions you listed anyway
<knome> ..
<micahg> charlie-tca: another week shouldn't matter WRT xubuntu, I'd still file a courtesy FFe, but FFes are more about features in the actual apps
<charlie-tca> micahg: go ahead and seed gthumb for oneiric. I will carry forward discussions to look into ristretto again for P
<micahg> charlie-tca: drop gthumb?
<micahg> oops
<micahg> I meant ristretto
<knome> o/
<charlie-tca> If I keep ristretto in the agenda, we won't forget
<charlie-tca> go ahead, knome 
<knome> imo it makes no sense to drop ristretto. then it's kind of "harder" to justify taking it back. and i do think we should prefer xfce applications. that's why i'm proposing to stick with ristretto and not seed gthumb, if we are keeping gimp for oneiric.
<knome> ..
<charlie-tca> It's only harder if it doesn't meet the users needs. 
<micahg> charlie-tca: we could just add gthumb to the mix and have viewer, simple editor, advanced editor
<charlie-tca> okay, let's do that if we have the space
<micahg> yeah, we're good for the moment
<knome> sounds good.
<charlie-tca> I will still keep ristretto in the old business, to make sure we follow up
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Team updates ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Team updates ===
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Packaging & Development ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Packaging & Development ====
<charlie-tca> micahg: This is for you today
<micahg> new versions of xfce4-screenshooter (1.8.0), midori (0.4.0), xfce4-notifyd (0.2.2) should be sync'd this week
<micahg> we dropped epdfview in favor of evince since gnumeric needs evince
<micahg> I think that's it
<micahg> charlie-tca: you mentioned wanting midori before
<charlie-tca> I have given up on pavucontrol for oneiric, I don't know that it is needed
<micahg> did you want to seed that as well as a lighter browser
<charlie-tca> however, pastebinit need to be added to the defaults
<micahg> yeah, I can seed pastebinit when I add gthumb later
<charlie-tca> micahg: it was a thought, not an absolute
<charlie-tca> as it stands now, should we leave midori out and just try to get things straightened out for beta1 ?
<charlie-tca> We don't know how much lightdm will grow yet for derivatives
<micahg> k, that's fine then
<charlie-tca> we will have a new plymouth, too, that is bigger
<micahg> ..
<charlie-tca> Any other questions for Packaging and Development?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====
<charlie-tca> We did not release Alpha3
<charlie-tca> The desktop images would not install and the alternate images destroyed data in /home was encrypted
<charlie-tca> We have to try to get things together for beta1
<charlie-tca> and, along those lines, does anyone know if we have documentation or checklists for releases?
<charlie-tca> It would sure help to have something to guide the decision making
<charlie-tca> I see a couple of issues here, that I will bring up in AOB
<charlie-tca> Any questions for testing?
<charlie-tca> in case of guessing, yes, the images worked monday and failed tuesday, wednesday, thursday
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Website & Marketing ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Website & Marketing ====
<charlie-tca> pleia2: your turn, please
<pleia2> I don't have anything, but knome has been doing pretty wordpress work
<charlie-tca> yay!
<knome> http://xubuntu.princessleia.com/
<charlie-tca> knome: got an update for us?
<knome> the site sports various improvements over what you saw last week
<knome> any feedback? comments?
<charlie-tca> o/
<knome> sure
<charlie-tca> Can we darken the light text a bit? both the shaded gray and shaded blue are hard to see
<knome> which light text?
<charlie-tca> Read more about Xubuntu Â»
<knome> i can look at the text contrasts later today
<charlie-tca> everything in that color
<knome> sure
<knome> some things are deliberately "harder" to see
<charlie-tca> I almost missed it here, but it would be better to know if it is just me?
<knome> for example, the dates are not so important, but they add a nice touch
<charlie-tca> yes, and should be
<knome> for me it's clearly visible, but i don't know about others
<charlie-tca> for me it's not, can others please comment?
<madnick> o/
<charlie-tca> go ahead
<charlie-tca> ..
<charlie-tca> madnick: yes?
<madnick> Whilist I can see it, the "RSS feed" and News archive was a bit hard to se
<madnick> On a non blank laptop screen
<knome> right.
<micahg> yeah, that text that charlie-tca mentioned is a little light
<knome> is it better now?
<charlie-tca> w00t! 100% improved
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much
<knome> the light gray text should also be darker now
<Unit193> I noticed that too
<knome> any feedback on the logo? it was something we came up like 5 minutes before the meeting
<charlie-tca> Isn't that the same logo we are using?
<charlie-tca> no,
<knome> yes, it's the same as in plymouth
<charlie-tca> it's fuzzy, but I can live with it
<knome> i'm waiting for pleia2 to create some screenshots that have a similar ratio to each other, so we can get the chaotic image-size-shuffling end on the frontpage
<knome> it's fuzzy because there is blurred stuff, so that it doesn't look too ugly on the background
<charlie-tca> It is within the artwork we are using, which makes it work well for me
<charlie-tca> ..
<madnick> o/
<charlie-tca> go ahead, madnick 
<madnick> The webpage looks really great, and the font is awesome, but what is the fallback font for other OS's?
<madnick> I mean, so it looks equally nice for Windows users wanting to get it :)
<madnick> ..
<knome> sans
<knome> i'll probably include "Verdana" before sans
<knome> but we're using the google webfonts
<knome> so...
<knome> afaik you need not to have JS
<knome> and not have the ubuntu font
<charlie-tca> I think it is looking real nice, myself
<charlie-tca> any other questions or comments?
<charlie-tca> trying to move along, hate going past an hour
<knome> sure
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Artwork ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Artwork ====
<charlie-tca> minor updates here, madnick is working on both plymouth and lightdm themes for Xubuntu
<madnick> o/
<charlie-tca> ochosi and knome  are giving assistance and guidance as needed
<charlie-tca> go ahead, madnick 
<knome> (and i can give advice, if you only remember to ping me)
<madnick> Oh
<madnick> Okay, because ochosi and knome told me they are thinking about it, but it was a bit of conflict
<knome> we still are in a conflict :P
<madnick> okay, so ill wait :P
<charlie-tca> They will iron that out
<knome> yeah
<knome> i agree with ochosi that it is semantically better to have the circle
<knome> but it's hard to make work visually with the logo
<madnick> okay, just pm me, if you reach a conclusion or want an idea tested on a real machine
<knome> sure, i'll do
<knome> ochosi will be mostly away for the next too weeks though
<madnick> UI freeze the 25th
<knome> but i'll come up with something i know he'd approve too
<charlie-tca> I like the circle, for what it's worht
<charlie-tca> s/worht/worth
<charlie-tca> but I only get glimpses, too
<charlie-tca> I really having our own really good looking splash screen the most
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Announcements ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Announcements ===
<charlie-tca>  * The next meeting will be on Sunday, 2011-08-14 at 22:00 UTC
<charlie-tca>  * Important dates coming up:
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 FeatureFreeze : August 11, 2011
<charlie-tca>   * User Interface Freeze : August 25, 2011
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 Release Date: October 13, 2011
<charlie-tca>   * UDS-P will be in Orlando, Florida the week of October 31 - Nov 4. Please apply for sponsorship by August 24.
<charlie-tca>   * UDS-P information at http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/07/15/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-2/
<charlie-tca> I know, I know. That's a lot at one throw
<knome> !pastebin | charlie-tca 
<ubottu> charlie-tca: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<charlie-tca> any questions?
<knome> ;)
<micahg> nah, for meetings, multiline pastes in context are ok for announcements :)
<charlie-tca> meeting notes, preferred not to paste one line at a time this time :)
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Any Other Business ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Any Other Business ===
<charlie-tca>  * we should try to get the defaults down this week so we can test drive them right 
<charlie-tca> Do we have anything to discuss now for defaults?
<charlie-tca>  * Release milestone documentation or checklists
<charlie-tca> think about what happens if mr_pouit, micahg, ochosi, myself, knome, pleia2 gets hit by a car!
<knome> probably bad for the car hitting me
<micahg> that would have to be a really fast flying car :)
<charlie-tca> Can anyone just "pick it up and get it done"?
<knome> cody-somerville!!
<charlie-tca> it only takes one of us to drop
 * knome hides in the darkest cave
<Unit193> astraljav would do it ;)
<micahg> jamino will have to come out of retirement :)
<charlie-tca> We need to start documenting what needs to happen, and what is happening.
<charlie-tca> I think we are doing a good job with the "what is happening" stuff, although we don't do so good updating a team report
<charlie-tca> I think we should start a section in the wiki for what needs to happen
<charlie-tca> comments?
<micahg> sounds like a good idea, ubuntu has a release checklist
<charlie-tca> yes, we have "by the seat of our pants" now
<charlie-tca> I am willing to start it, but will need some help as it gets going
<charlie-tca> I also believe we should start looking towards blueprints for Xubuntu. If we really want Ubuntu to take us seriously, we have to start doing things they expect.
<charlie-tca> I propose we examine this stuff, at least. Maybe it won't be reality for P, but it needs to be looked at
<charlie-tca> Any other comments/questions/topics?
<knome> is the wiki already any faster?
<charlie-tca> um, sure ;)
<charlie-tca> why wouldn't it be?
<charlie-tca> well, I think it is at times
<knome> errm, because with canonical, you can't
<charlie-tca> Most of the time now, it is faster than last year
<knome> even a 486sx is faster than last year
<charlie-tca> then the answer is "yes, it is faster" :)
<charlie-tca> I believe it is, knome. I have not had to wait 5 minutes to get the agenda to appear for a while
<knome> only 4,5 minutes?
<charlie-tca> usually just a minute or so
<charlie-tca> I think we are under 60 seconds most of the time now
<charlie-tca> seriously, it did take 4 to 5 minutes before, and now it is usually under a minute
 * astraljava hangs head in shame
<charlie-tca> anything else?
<charlie-tca> going....
<micahg> charlie-tca: I'll have to wait until Wed to upload the new meta, pitti made a change to cups in the platform seed that I have a question about
<charlie-tca> Thank you all for attending this meeting! Your participation is very much appreciated
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> should be making cups no longer a recommended for the desktop packages
<charlie-tca> We been trying for a long time to get cups to not install for those without printers
<charlie-tca> but, that is going off meeting.
<charlie-tca> Let's go back to work
<charlie-tca> I will dive into the wiki and try to get something started
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] charlie-tca to start a release checklist page for Xubuntu
<meetingology> ACTION: charlie-tca to start a release checklist page for Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug  8 20:07:31 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/xubuntu-devel/2011/xubuntu-devel.2011-08-08-19.02.moin.txt
<astraljava> Sorry folks, for missing the meeting!
<madnick> okay, knome shall we look into the greeter theme? :)
<knome> in a sec
<madnick> okay
<charlie-tca> astraljava: no problem. We just finished
<Unit193> Slim only loads Xfce Session
<knome> pleia2! screenshots! now!
<knome> ;)
<charlie-tca> madnick, knome : we are going to try to get the lightdm bugs fixed this week. 
<pleia2> knome: I am working!
<knome> bah! working!
<charlie-tca> And while we are all here, has anyone heard from mr_pouit since about friday?
<knome> probably not, can't remember
<charlie-tca> Haven't seen any updates on bugs, or anything from him
<knome> mmh
<knome> maybe just taking a break
<charlie-tca> I could see him needing one
<micahg> yeah, I hope he's relaxing :), maybe he went to the desktop summit
<charlie-tca> micahg: wednesday works for me, and if we have to wait longer, that's fine, too
<micahg> k
<micahg> also, the new version of xfce4-notifyd might allow us to be co-installable w/ubuntu-desktop again
<charlie-tca> That would be nice
<knome> madnick, okay, i'm ready. i don't have any ideas ready, but i can answer any questions you might have :)
<knome> just added a very slight gradient for the website content area
<madnick> okay well, have you seen the theme i developed?
<knome> i think i saw an early version
<knome> and we agreed that it was weird to align differently, right? :)
<charlie-tca> micahg: todays' updates for oneiric - 44 upgraded, 118 newly installed, 39 to remove
<charlie-tca> It is installing half of kubuntu
<madnick> we sort of did ;) but alot of people liked the unity greeter :P
<knome> do we think there could be ANY other way to list the mirrors in the get -page?
<madnick> knome: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/labmachine.jpg
<knome> maybe "Europe: link, link, link, link <br />Continent: link, link, link"
<knome> mmh
<knome> the only thing i'm worried about is the aligning really
<madnick> Well thats my problem, Im not sure that theme would work centered, and I dont have any ideas for a centerered theme
<madnick> we could do:
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/default.png
<knome> i don't see why it wouldn't work centered
<madnick> knome: if there are several users
<madnick> its a scroll thing
<knome> how does that fail?
<knome> scroll in what sense?
<madnick> 2 buttons aligned to the left
<charlie-tca> micahg: there's 118 kde packages trying to install 
<micahg> charlie-tca: fun :)
<madnick> knome: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-o1flLfTEanU/Th3TpoGpcBI/AAAAAAAABFg/oRyhXzQ22RU/s1600/unity+greeter+1.png
<madnick> sort of like that :)
<charlie-tca> micahg: asked in #kubuntu-devel
<knome> madnick, mmh. IMO, that would still work centered. have you tried that?
<madnick> knome: i have not :) but now that you say it, i will do it
<micahg> charlie-tca: if it were another day, I would test/retry the apt rdepends, but I can't today, someone else needs to do it
<charlie-tca> I guess I will wait a day to update. Maybe it will settle down by then
<micahg> charlie-tca: if it doesn
<micahg> t by tomorrow night, I can try to get it fixed
<charlie-tca> okay
 * micahg figures mvo wil check in the morning
<madnick> knome: its too late too look into centering today (there is about zero documentation on this)
<knome> okay
<knome> no problem
<madnick> remember, if you got an idea for a totally different theme, we can do that instead (atm we are sorta copying ubuntu's look and feel on this..)
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> what do you think of this: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=216915076340223799701.0004aa047c07a4e37e5f3&msa=0
<madnick> someone found out where i live? :D
<knome> no
<madnick> oh its mirrors
<knome> that's the mirrors
<madnick> I thought it was stats over downloaded locations from Geo ip or similar :)
<knome> heh
<knome> nope
<micahg> charlie-tca: thunar-vcs-plugin was just uploaded into Debian, I'm going to sync it over, but do we want it seeded?
<charlie-tca> I don't know
<micahg> it's for git and svn ATM
<charlie-tca> not familiar enough with it to know
<charlie-tca> I don't have enough knowledge of that to know if we seed it or it just gets installed or what?
<micahg> well, it's for people that work with svn repos and git repos and allows them to do it through thunar similar to thunar-archive-plugin allowing one to create file archives through thunar
<charlie-tca> That's something brand new?
<charlie-tca> I don't show it in Xubuntu now
<astraljava> micahg: I'd say YEAH WE DO, but then I mostly just use terminal.
<micahg> charlie-tca: yes, new plugin
<micahg> the archive plugin is in xubuntu now
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/2011/08/09/new-xubuntu-website-taster/
<knome> aggregating soon enough to planet ubuntu
<charlie-tca> If you think we should, seed it
 * charlie-tca is not really a developer, he doesn't even play one
<knome> feel free to comment the post, maybe that'll inspire others to do the same
<micahg> charlie-tca: I guess it's not that useful to a casual user
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> I am going out for a few minutes. Got to walk around
 * pleia2 shares knome-blog
 * madnick thinks the unity greeter should've had a UI file :<
<knome> share it as much as you wish :)
<charlie-tca> back
<Unit193> Welcome back. The non-change to  GTK3 should be on the website?
<charlie-tca> huh?
<charlie-tca> "non-change to GTK3"
<charlie-tca> ?
<charlie-tca> what is that
<Unit193> That was rather broken... Should we have any info on when/why Xfce will not be switching to GTK3 yet?
<micahg_> Unit193: http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.10/roadmap
<micahg_> Unit193: xubuntu will have GTK3, but the Xfce parts won't be GTK3
<Unit193> micahg_: Yep, that's what I pointed to, but we have gotten a few questions on that (Not on the FAQs list though)
<charlie-tca> micahg_: word about aisleriot is if we want it to work, we have to fix it
<charlie-tca> gnome and Ubuntu have dropped it
<micahg_> charlie-tca: lol, after a new upstream release happens, we can upload/reseed
<charlie-tca> They said the only new release will  be gtk3 only
<micahg_> gnome has dropped it?
<Unit193> Anyway, thanks
<charlie-tca> Yeah, it won't be in gnome3
<micahg_> it's its own source now
<charlie-tca> Unit193: what questions?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: It's not something that needs to be put on the FAQs, but here was one from today "Will XFCE be ported to GTK3?"
<charlie-tca> The answer is "yes, eventually"
<charlie-tca> but I see now
<Unit193> Mine was "Sometime after 4.10" and that link
<charlie-tca> That works too
<charlie-tca> To make it easy on Xubuntu users, 12.10 or later
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-09
<micahg_> charlie-tca: I pushed the changes to the seeds to bzr though, so the live media tomorrow should have gthumb and pastebinit
<charlie-tca> Thanks!
<micahg_> charlie-tca: BTW, I"m off tomorrow, so I won't be around until the evening
<charlie-tca> Okay, we will try and make it without destroying anything
<charlie-tca> Have a good day off
<charlie-tca> I will leave this online for a couple of days, to see what happens with lightdm
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-08-14 | Oneiric images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<pleia2> knome: screenshots added (didn't delete your thunar one)
<pleia2> I have a VM for this now, so we can get screenshots of whatever
<Unit193> LightDM? ;)
<pleia2> nah, natty screenshots
<pleia2> for the demo site at xubuntu.princessleia.com
<pleia2> elizabeth@coruscant:~$ task 13 done
<pleia2> Completed 13 'create xubuntu screenshots for knome'
<pleia2> \o/
<pleia2> ;)
<charlie-tca> Yay!
<cody-somerville> ooo.... http://xubuntu.princessleia.com/ looks nice
<astraljava> I agree, Princess Leia really looks nice.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-08-14 | All Oneiric Desktop images are broken
<GridCube> all oneiric? even ubuntu's?
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> Thus "All "
<GridCube> i see
<GridCube> :) good evening mister charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> I was hoping to get that across. I am glad it read the way I intended .
<charlie-tca> Good evening, sir.
<GridCube> yep because you usually say xubuntu desktop and not all
<GridCube> how was yesterday's meeting, i havent seen the minutes
<charlie-tca> Well, I got to go fix a bicycle today for the grandson.
<charlie-tca> Um, good, I think
<charlie-tca> I haven't got the minutes out yet, but will do that later today
<GridCube> :D i know a thing or two about bicycles :D
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Is the channel meetbot the same they have in #ubuntu-meeting?
<astraljava> Ie. where does this one save the logs?
<astraljava> Cause at the moment, mootbot's logs are on a server, the web service of which is broken, so I cannot fetch ours.
<knome> astraljava, you don't log yourself?
<astraljava> knome: I do, actually. :)
<knome> then what's the problem?;)
<astraljava> Good point.
<astraljava> There is none.
<knome> np
<astraljava> Well the only thing I'd want is to point to a URL in the meeting entry, so I would have to upload minutes anywhere.
<astraljava> wouldn't*
<GridCube> astraljava: cant you use the irclogs? http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/08/%23xubuntu-devel.html
<knome> astraljava, just upload to the wikie
<knome> -e
<astraljava> GridCube: But then what's the point in using the meetbot in the first place?
<astraljava> knome: Yeah but I don't wanna! :D
<GridCube> dunno... whats the point on using a meetbot in the first place?
<astraljava> Automatic minutes-keeping, for one?! :D
<GridCube> the logs it generates arent as pretty as the irclogs htmls anyway
<astraljava> Meh... I'm not doing it for the candy factor.
<astraljava> GridCube: Hah! Actually, for that day, that's quite handy, cause there seems to have been no other traffic at all, so I can just link to that file and not worry about the cruft. Thanks! :D
<GridCube> :D
<astraljava> Anyone knows how to edit the wiki so that the link opens in a new tab, instead of over the current page?
<astraljava> Or will user just have to middle|right-click themselves?
<TheSheep> astraljava: the latter
<TheSheep> astraljava: it's up to the user
<TheSheep> astraljava: and it's like that on purpose
<GridCube> >external link with linktext, open new window 	  [[http://example.net/|example site|target="_blank"]] 
<GridCube> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnLinking
<astraljava> Oh cool, thanks for the both of ya!
<TheSheep> GridCube: that produces incorrect html though
<GridCube> not if you leave spaces
<TheSheep> GridCube: leave spaces?
<GridCube> [[http://example.net/ | example site | target="_blank"]] 
<TheSheep> GridCube: I mean that the target attribute on the <a> tag is not correct in the html version that moinmoin generates
<GridCube> oh, well i don't know about that
<TheSheep> I know it by a coincidence ;)
<TheSheep> but yeah, I forgot that you can pass attributes for links and images in the markup
<TheSheep> nice catch
<GridCube> not all bugs are features
<TheSheep> GridCube: we actually had extensive discussions about that feature
<TheSheep> GridCube: and in the end we decided to leave it but not advertise too much
<GridCube> hahaha
<TheSheep> in moinmoin that is
<TheSheep> unfortunately it's a common requirement in various intranet wikis and such
<GridCube> it works :/
<GridCube> it does open on a new tab, but maybe im not trying a hard coded url, lemme try a google search link
<GridCube> yep it still works
<charlie-tca> astraljava: no, they are not in the same place
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Okay.
<charlie-tca> bot in -meeting stores meeting logs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs
<TheSheep> GridCube: it will work for eternity
<TheSheep> GridCube: just the html validators will complain
<TheSheep> (and usability experts)
<TheSheep> ut who cares about them
<charlie-tca> For those wondering, lightdm is getting a lot of attention this week. Hopefully, it will be working for us by the end of the week.
<pleia2> yay :)
<TheSheep> \o/
<madnick> \:D/
<knome> /o\
<TheSheep> madnick: what's with your neck? that looks painful
<madnick> :<
<charlie-tca> Thank mr_pouit when he comes around. He got things rolling
<astraljava> charlie-tca: That page doesn't seem to have been updated recently either.
<knome> what page
<charlie-tca> which one?
<astraljava> charlie-tca: But I need to get  in touch with the people who do update it, cause Ubuntu Studio isn't there yet.
<astraljava> the meeting logs page.
<charlie-tca> oh, are using meetingology or mootbot?
<astraljava> mootbot
<charlie-tca> That doesn't separate by channel, but it by UTC, so it might be one day ahead or back from the actual date
<charlie-tca> Most stuff even here is on the log for 2011-08-10 right now
<astraljava> Yeah but that has stuff from mid-July on it.
<astraljava> And Xubuntu distro link takes you to a non-existent page.
<charlie-tca> I gave you a bad link
<madnick> I looked at the Unity Greeter vala source alot today, everything is pretty much hardcoded :( I want to know if we want to use it before I start making any more massive changes :P
<charlie-tca> look at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/08/ for #ubuntu-meeting
<charlie-tca> We haven't decided yet, madnick 
<astraljava> Ahh... yeah, I know about that one, but thanks anyway.
<charlie-tca> there should be two parts to lightdm configurations, one is in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf for all distributions, and then there is lightdm-gtk-greeter, the general configuration greeter, and then there is unity-greeter which is specific to Ubuntu.
<madnick> Yes
<charlie-tca> We should be able to replace unity-greeter and have things our way
<charlie-tca> astraljava: did you find your meeting?
<charlie-tca> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/07/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<charlie-tca> madnick: and you should not have to use vala if you don't want to
<madnick> charlie-tca: nope, you can use C as well :)
<charlie-tca> but my understanding "today" is that we can build our own xubuntu-greeter to replace unity-greeter and everything "will just work".
<charlie-tca> hahaha
<madnick> Yes
<madnick> But thats what I have questions about, is not the unity greeter a big step up from the default greeter?
<madnick> We can do our own completely, but then we need a brand new design :P
<charlie-tca> yes, it probably is a big step, and yes, we do our own 
<charlie-tca> Unless you really want to just copy and modify unity-greeter, which can be copied to xubuntu-greeter and fixed to work for us
<charlie-tca> We don't want gnome/classic/unity/ubuntu sessions at all, we need xubuntu and xfce sessions
<madnick> okay :)
 * charlie-tca thinks you know, the little things that make Xubuntu what it is.
<knome> hmm.
<knome> i'm not sure if we should BLOCK the other session really.
<knome> some people do want to use both the xubuntu desktop and the other flavors too
<madnick> If someone apt-get install gnome-desktop or similar, that should show, but not as default imo
<charlie-tca> we don't BLOCK anything. We do NOT supply sessions for everything possible to add to Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> We only supply two default sessions, xubuntu and xfce
<knome> madnick, that's my concern. if you install ubuntu-desktop, the ubuntu session definitely should show up.
<knome> charlie-tca, yes, but i think you're missing my point.
<charlie-tca> I don't really care at this time about getting lightdm to work with all possible sessions someone could have. I care about getting it work for Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> knome: I am more concerned that Xubuntu session shows up right now. If it doesn't work for us, it is worthless as a display manager. 
<knome> charlie-tca, of course, but you do realize that it's really bad from us if we block the other sessions for no specific reason
<charlie-tca> If the only sessions that work correctly are Ubuntu, unity, gnome, then lightdm is failing to work at all
<charlie-tca> Why would you specifically block them?
<knome> i understood that when you said:
<knome> 21:31  charlie-tca: We don't want gnome/classic/unity/ubuntu sessions at all, we need xubuntu and xfce sessions
<charlie-tca> Go look in unity-greeter and see if xubuntu and xfce are there
<knome> "at all" means "they are not going to be there at all"
<charlie-tca> Go look in unity-greeter and see if xubuntu and xfce are there
<knome> they shouldn't, if xubuntu-desktop isn't installed
<knome> but they should, if it is
<charlie-tca> Then we do not need to put those sessions in our greeter either
<knome> if the unity-greeter is blocking them, they are going the wrong direction
<charlie-tca> madnick understands what I said. leave it
<knome> there's no need to payback
<knome> okay...
<charlie-tca> I do not care if those sessions are in our greeter. I do care if xubuntu and xfce sessions are working.
<knome> of course, that's the priority.
<knome> but if those are working, and we can list the other sessions too without breaking our sessions, we should.
<charlie-tca> I really do not need a list of every possible session.
<charlie-tca> When I log in, I only want to see two sessions listed, xubuntu and xfce. 
<knome> you might not, but some people might, and i think it's a bad choice to leave them unlisted
<charlie-tca> and more will file bugs if they are listed and don't do anything
<knome> of course they shouldn't be listed if they don't work
<charlie-tca> Let's work on one problem at a time. We do not need to complicate things. We just need to get it working.
<knome> didn't disagree about that
<madnick> Well, I can't begin doing the UI for it until we decided how we want it to look :)
<madnick> i will show some ideas
<madnick> but it will take a little while, because i need to eat something :)
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Yeah, luckily, there was no other activity on that day, so I could just link to the irclogs.u.c page.
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> That's the easy way ;)
<charlie-tca> madnick: doesn't even have to be this week
<madnick> charlie-tca: oh okay :P
<charlie-tca> madnick: more changes to lightdm are coming down the road
<madnick> charlie-tca: okay :)
<madnick> I just hope it happens in time
<charlie-tca> keep an eye on bug 799754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 799754 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Please let vendors easily provide their own config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799754
<charlie-tca> That should get the answer first
<madnick> thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-10
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: New changes to how lightdm works, now it uses a unity-greeter file just for ubuntu. Do we need to back out the symlinks and provide a separate greeter file for Xubuntu?
<gridcube> good evening
<madnick> evening :)
 * charlie-tca waves
<charlie-tca> anyone tried today's alternate images?
<charlie-tca> supposed to have the fix for two xubuntu sessions in it now
<gridcube> I'm afraid that whit the new amount of classes I will start to have from now on I won't be able to do test except on weekends :(
<charlie-tca> Okay, feel free to run all the tests you can on the days you can do it, please?
<gridcube> i will carry on the top 10 faq and stuff and help on all i can tho
<gridcube> :) will do mister charlie-tca 
<madnick> Ill try out the alternate CD
<charlie-tca> Even if they are duplicate tests, all testing is good :)
<gridcube> ok :)
<madnick> does the alternate cd's also contain the fix for not wiping out the partition? 
 * charlie-tca likes being to say "it worked on ???", too
<gridcube> I can try to figure out how to use qemu on windows and try to do tests on my work's machine, but its pretty slooow
<charlie-tca> madnick: I don't know if encrypted installs are working yet
<madnick> okay
<charlie-tca> not encrypting should be okay,t hough
<charlie-tca> gridcube: no problem, if you can test on weekends, that would be great!
<gridcube> :) ok will try to do so
<charlie-tca> I do have the alternate amd64 full disk installing now
<gridcube> why hasnt the communit meeting minutes been published yet?
<charlie-tca> but I am also being asked everyday if lightdm is working for us yet, too
 * charlie-tca hangs head
<charlie-tca> because I haven't gotten there yet?
<gridcube> hehehe :D ok
<gridcube> i've already read it from the irclogs tho XD
<charlie-tca> and now, I have to go chair the qa meeting for today
<gridcube> quality assurance?
<charlie-tca> Testing today's image - be aware - WARNING
<charlie-tca> after installing and logging in, I ran updates. It will not accept my password again after a restart
<charlie-tca> gridcube: yup
<charlie-tca> Warning    Warning    Warning
<gridcube> tried the "other" aproach?
<charlie-tca> no, gave up
<charlie-tca> I didn't care that much. It is a VBox install
<charlie-tca> and I was only looking at sessions
<charlie-tca> I really got to run updates on this machine today.
<GridCube> charlie-tca, i did a silly thing to the form XD https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/formResponse?authkey=CP282scF&hl=es&formkey=dGZSenZqRS04eE9LYnBwSWtUM0NJRXc6MQ&theme=0AX42CRMsmRFbUy05YjI3NzU3Yi1hODVmLTQ5NDUtOTA2Yi1mZDY0Nzc0ZWU1NTE&ptok=3376030338799176757&ifq
<GridCube> oh, its brokne
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> okay
<GridCube> https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?hl=es&authkey=CP282scF&formkey=dGZSenZqRS04eE9LYnBwSWtUM0NJRXc6MQ#gid=5
<GridCube> there
<GridCube> i took a bad url XD
<charlie-tca> I see. Wouldn't look at the spreadsheet be better?
<GridCube> sure
<charlie-tca> oh, It won't be, right?
<charlie-tca> because we can't mark what is required if that is used
<GridCube> but we could make a schudle and link people to it
 * GridCube schelude? schudle? wordreference here i go!
<charlie-tca> and have them look to see the results that might be listed already, so they are prepared for any bugs?
<GridCube> oh well we could link them to the form made sheet?
<GridCube> like, look at what youre doing
<GridCube> as said a silly thing
 * GridCube goes back to toptening
<charlie-tca> Well, it is getting closer, there might be hope yet
<charlie-tca> hm, latest news - Linus switched from Fedora Xfce to Mint Xfce
<GridCube> jo
<charlie-tca> 197 upgraded, 14 newly installed, 0 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
<charlie-tca> Need to get 325 MB of archives.
<charlie-tca> easy, right?
<GridCube> D:
<GridCube> thats silly
<charlie-tca> At least it decided not to remove those 100 or so from two days ago
<micahg> :)
<charlie-tca> micahg: and it didn't even decide I need to install KDE today!
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-11
<Unit193> daily-live is a no go for now (Build failed) daily installs for 32 following notes: Guest is back (working), we have user select (Unity-greeter with no bg), still need to select the second Xubuntu Session, all menu items are there!
<Unit193> astraljava , gridcube , charlie-tca ^^^
<charlie-tca> um, daily-live has failed for three days. 
<charlie-tca> There have been no new images since monday for it
<charlie-tca> Unit193: thanks for testing!
<Unit193> So I shouldn't even bother reminding?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Figured I may as well give you all the info!
<charlie-tca> yes, remind
<charlie-tca> It is good to know someone else is trying them
<Unit193> Warning: I may have missed a few errors as I was up all night (Isn't Retrieving file *** of 897 in alt install a bit high?)
<charlie-tca> oh, by the way. The desktop images are being built for today now
<charlie-tca> might be an hour or two until we get them.
<charlie-tca> nah, that sounds about right
<Unit193> Hope this helps a little more (Know what you're getting into?)
<charlie-tca> It does. I missed part of that when I looked here
<charlie-tca> and, jibel was able to find the issue with encrypted /home, too. Now that bug will get worked!
<Unit193> So, am I supposed to run that too?
<Unit193> Or is there a way to add it after install :P
<charlie-tca> no!
<charlie-tca> at this time, there is no way to add users to LVM installs, encrypted or otherwise
<charlie-tca> We have to wait for a fix.
<charlie-tca> sorry, I didn't mean to yell
<Unit193> Eh, it's fine. Just as long as you're not mad at me ;P
<charlie-tca> No, I am not mad at you. I am glad you tested the alternates :)
<Unit193> Didn't think you were, you would tell me. Maybe I should run with encryption on /home this round
<charlie-tca> I don't think that is a good idea yet
<charlie-tca> give it a day or two, see what the bug does first. The drives I tried it on, I could not use any of the previous installs to log back in.
<charlie-tca> two hard drives in two systems, lost everything on both drives in both systems
<charlie-tca> FeatureFreeze in 5 hours
<charlie-tca> All Packagers ^ ^ ^
<madnick> does that apply to plymouth / greeter packages?
<charlie-tca> We will get an exception for the greeter. Plymouth is taken care of already
<madnick> charlie-tca: we have an exception for plymouth? or did someone package the old version? 
<charlie-tca> We can use the old version, it has been there since ??? as far as I know
<charlie-tca> If not, we ask for the exception. No problem
<madnick> okay
<charlie-tca> madnick: if need be, we stick things in the artwork updates, but we will get those in
<Unit193> ERROR WHILE BUILDING OFFICIAL IMAGES !!"
<madnick> charlie-tca: ah okay :)
<gridcube> http://gridcube.netii.net/test.htm
<gridcube> I made myself a freewebhosting site and added the top 10 there :D
<gridcube> well top 5 so far
<charlie-tca> meeting minutes are out, too, now
<charlie-tca> madnick: robert ancell is back on holidays, now that the summit is over. He might be back in another week.
<madnick> hopefully, there won't be any changes made that effects greeters in a massive way
<charlie-tca> um, yeah... other than the actual configuration keeps changing every day or two
<charlie-tca> but, hey, what's a little thing like changing the way it works, right?
<charlie-tca> Got hopes they will quit changing things starting today, and work on just making it work.
<astraljava> Unit193: Yeah, I don't really have time to test this week, it seems. We're busy with a bitchy-ass hungarian testing our friggin' software.
<Unit193> astraljava: Just pinging you because you're one of us :P Great to hear of the other meeting though!
<madnick> Not sure why Ubuntu is pushing out software so fast, software thats not even really done :)
<madnick> Like LightDM, Plymouth and Unity
<charlie-tca> Such things happen
<madnick> Its bound to be hard for distros building upon ubuntu
<charlie-tca> um, yes, it is very hard for those of us outside the main Ubuntu stuff to try and keep making things work
<charlie-tca> madnick: as seen by how often Ubuntu works and Mythbuntu, Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu, UbuntuStudio won't?
<Unit193> Kubuntu is using KDM and Lubuntu is using LXDM so that cuts out quite a few issues
<madnick> Yeah
<charlie-tca> They are using those because lightdm won't work for them
<charlie-tca> They do plan on using lightdm, though
<charlie-tca> They are waiting for Xubuntu to get the kinks out first :)
<madnick> Was oschii going to be away the entire week btw?
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> or was it two weeks?
<madnick> oh
<charlie-tca> micahg, mr_pouit, all other devs: Consider the Feature Freeze time adjusted to 2100 UTC.
<Unit193> Last chance to dump LightDM?
<charlie-tca> heh, no need. gdm is still there, just have to change things around and muck with it to make it work, since they upgraded it to gnome3
<Unit193> GTK3 or Gnome3?
<charlie-tca> um, both, I think
<charlie-tca> It means it won't "just work"  for xubuntu, you have to work hard to make it usable for us.
<Unit193> Heh, not harder than LightDM
<Unit193> Anywho, it was a joke
<charlie-tca> tossup lol!
<Unit193> I found it odd that KDM worked better than Slim or LXDM with no config
<Unit193> In Xubuntu oneiric
<charlie-tca> Keep that one in mind, we might need it yet
<micahg> charlie-tca: thanks
<charlie-tca> Unit193: being in -ops doesn't mean I can remember things :(
<charlie-tca> Every time I try to change one of those things, I have to go find how again
<Unit193> charlie-tca: That's fine, I was asking for follow up. I get to learn on a bot that has Ubottu Encyclopedia
<Unit193> Ping me if you wish
<charlie-tca> heh, That's a deal!
<charlie-tca> I only been doing this IRC thing for about three years, I guess it takes time to learn
<Unit193> And there is about 7M type of IRC bots :P
<charlie-tca> Oh, great
<Unit193> I can name Supybot, DarkBot, Eggdrop, rbot, and limnoria just off the top of my head
<charlie-tca> Well, that certainly makes it more difficult.
<charlie-tca> I just need to learn these things ubuntu uses
<astraljava> madnick: The way I see it, Ubuntu, while creating a pretty friggin' huge buzz, still somehow knows how not to take itself too seriously. If you know what I mean?
<charlie-tca> +1
<astraljava> Like not taking the safe, secure way, leaning against the tried and true software.
<Unit193> http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins#Encyclopedia
<astraljava> Personally, I'm a huge fan of it.
<charlie-tca> I am starting to see some benefits of not running "the latest and breaking-est"
<charlie-tca> Maybe I been running broken too long?
<astraljava> Well, sure, that takes on ya, but that's why you have the stable machine for, right? :)
<charlie-tca> huh? stable machine?
<charlie-tca> That's what is missing/
<charlie-tca> ?
<charlie-tca> Isn't that what I use for at least a month every release?
<astraljava> Oh okay. :)
<astraljava> I have 6 desktops, plus the laptop, so I have one stable desktop, and the others are for different tests. The laptop is from work, so it's gotta be more or less stable.
<astraljava> But since I don't really store much data on it, it doesn't really matter whether it gets b0rked and reinstalled periodically.
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I could see that. I tend to run the development versions from about alpha1. 
<charlie-tca> About the time I think I found something I like, it breaks
<astraljava> Yeah, that sucks.
<charlie-tca> I have to think it might help sometimes, but other times, it ain't so much fun.
<astraljava> Oh it ain't fun. As soon as we're done with the projects at work that we're battling now, I'm reinstalling, and going with Xubuntu. The vanilla 11.04 sucks 4$$.
<charlie-tca> I had no idea. I just keep trying with this one
<charlie-tca> Although oneiric has been so much fun, I may have to reinstall when we hit beta2, just to see what I really have
<astraljava> Yeah, good plan.
<micahg> do we need a new version of anything before feature freeze?
<Unit193> I may have missed it, but midori is for sure not going in I would guess
<charlie-tca> micahg: That happens in 4 minutes
<micahg> Unit193: huh?  I updated midori to 0.4.0 already
<charlie-tca> Debian been doing about 30-40 updates in the last two days on bugs
<micahg> charlie-tca: doesn't matter much, I'm notorious for FFes ;)
<charlie-tca> Great! We will have our share. Lightdm still has changes being done today
<charlie-tca> and robert ancell is on holidays for at least the next week
<micahg> charlie-tca: did you like that bug I filed last night?
<charlie-tca> yeah, I thought it was good
<charlie-tca> I wish they would quit closing them just because they fixed unity, though
<Unit193> I'm a little confused, Midori is currently in daily? It's not from the install this morning...
<micahg> no, charlie-tca said we don't need it
<Unit193> Alright, that's what I thought
<charlie-tca> We didn't add it by default
<micahg> yeah, that's what I meant :)
<micahg> we can make another meta upload still if something else is missing
<charlie-tca> Did we get pastebinit in?
<micahg> yep, recommends on desktop, wasn't sure if you wanted it in -desktop or live only
 * Unit193 just looked before :P
<charlie-tca> Wanted it in the installed stuff, since that's when we need it most
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Oneiric Ocelot Feature Freeze in effect | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-08-14 at 22:00 UTC | All Oneiric Desktop images are broken
<madnick> back on sundays?
<charlie-tca> Alternates mondays and sundays
<madnick> oh okay
<Unit193> I'm sure you can't have something installed by defualt with --no-install-recommends ?
<Unit193> alacarte could be handy, but it recommends Unity and friends
<charlie-tca> By the time this "not a developer" learns all this stuff, I won't need it any more.
<charlie-tca> alacarte depends on gnome-menu directly
<charlie-tca> which breaks it bad for Xubuntu
<micahg> which is why we don't see it :)
<micahg> *seed
<Unit193> --no-install-recommends got me just alacarte and nothing else in oneiric
<charlie-tca> and it actually works?
<Unit193> Oddly, yes. Need a screenshot?
<charlie-tca> no, it failed when I tried that
<Unit193> Used to for me also http://ubuntuone.com/p/19oo/
 * micahg thought it required gnome-menus
<charlie-tca> It does
<charlie-tca> at least according to the Debian bug report
<charlie-tca> Unit193: you running a xubuntu install with nothing added from gnome?
<Unit193> Look at terminal in the bg
<Unit193> Anyway, it's a recommends
<charlie-tca> Maybe it got changed after the last round 
<Unit193> I dunno, I just tried it :/
<charlie-tca> That was a pretty mean battle last time. Maybe...
<charlie-tca> If it works, at least we can users to install it that way
<Unit193> Yeah, it's not needed, but it can be helpful
<charlie-tca> Some users really want to be able to edit the menus
<charlie-tca> Final request to the Strategy Document change sent out to both Mailing Lists
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-12
<GridCube> charlie-tca, i think i have 6 of the top 10 now :)
<charlie-tca> gaining fast then! Glad to hear there is progress
<micahg> I finally got normal notifications back, somehow the type of notification got set to something crazy
 * micahg is guessing he's going to have to see libindicate-gtk2 now
<micahg> *seed
<GridCube> i particulary like number six: Q: Can I edit the Start Menu? A: nope.
<charlie-tca> Let's give ochosi time to get back, and mr_pouit.
<micahg> huh? I thought we shipped something to do that
<knome> GridCube, "A: You can use a menu editor of your choice to do that, for example Alacarte."
<GridCube> what is alacarte?
<GridCube> and how you install it?
<charlie-tca> GridCube: your A: is wrong
<knome> alacarte is a menu editing application
<knome> sudo apt-get install alacarte
<charlie-tca> For Xfce 4.8, 'sudo apt-get install alacarte --no-install-recommends' in a terminal will let you use an editor to change the menus.
<micahg> yes, but it'll pull in the gnome stack
<micahg> right
<charlie-tca> without the --no-install-recommends, it will pull in too much
<knome> right, i've disabled installing the recommended packages altogether
<knome> ;)
<charlie-tca> GridCube: that is valid for both 11.04 and 11.10
<GridCube> and for 10.04 as i just tested it
<GridCube> well, at least the sudo apt-get part, but it wants me to download 160MB thats a bit too much
<GridCube> and pretty ridicule for just editing a menu
<knome> alacarte won't edit the xubuntu menu prior to 11.04
<GridCube> oh then its useless
<charlie-tca> you still running 10.04?
<GridCube> also the no-install-recommends avoided the 160b
<GridCube> mb
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> i use 10.04
<charlie-tca> GridCube: For Xfce 4.8, 'sudo apt-get install alacarte --no-install-recommends' in a terminal will let you use an editor to change the menus.
<charlie-tca> GridCube: that would be 11.04 and higher
<GridCube> copy pasted it
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Oneiric Ocelot Feature Freeze in effect | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-08-14 at 22:00 UTC | Oneiric images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<charlie-tca> micahg: bug 824299 closed as fixed again
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 824299 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm should offer the alternative virtual greeter package" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/824299
<charlie-tca> We have desktop images, but my zsync started at 58% complete today. Going to be a while to get them here.
<charlie-tca> micahg_: Is there a way for us to get this fix for ristretto pulled and put into to both 11.04 and 11.10?
<charlie-tca> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7882
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 7882 in General "Memory leak when navigating through a set of images" [Major,Assigned: ]
<charlie-tca> Probably have to wait for it to hit Debian?
<charlie-tca> Seems like a good thing to get, though
<astraljava> I was at 59.4%
<charlie-tca> oh, 386?
<charlie-tca> I need to know if lightdm changed at all for us. 
<charlie-tca> and whether or not we can actually login today
<charlie-tca> and the good news is... I need to update and reinstall vbox, again
<charlie-tca> Release team meeting in about 1 hour, won't have results since I don't have the full images yet
<charlie-tca> Okay, I asked this on the bug report, but will ask again. Is it possible to pin the gnome-system-tools package from 11.04 to 11.10 so users-admin does not require mixed gtk2 and gtk3?
<charlie-tca> bug 789333
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 789333 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "users-admin crashes on start because of mixed GTK2 and 3 symbols" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/789333
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Yeah, i386, cause I intend to test on real hw, and it's 32-bit only.
<charlie-tca> I have the advantage then. I have both machines
<charlie-tca> I just have this painfully slow internet
<astraljava> I do have a laptop and a desktop for amd64 usage, but those are for different purposes. But I should just add a few more disks for the desktop, so I could install more.
<astraljava> Did you mean g-system-tools as for the image or just locally, for yourself?
<micahg_> charlie-tca: oneiric, sure, natty, if there's a test case
<charlie-tca> I mean gnome-system-tools as in System -> Users and Groups
<charlie-tca> You can not add a user 
<charlie-tca> which, if we are really going to provide the interface for users, needs to work
<charlie-tca> micahg: I will have to find the natty bug
<micahg> charlie-tca: users-admin needs to be gtk3
<charlie-tca> why?
<micahg> to work with the rest of gnome
<charlie-tca> According to the bug report, it is up to those planning to use it to make it work
<astraljava> So what components bring GNOME3 libs in at this moment?
<charlie-tca> micahg: so, are we going to have to add tons of gnome3 to get that working for us now?
<micahg> charlie-tca: oops, you're right
<micahg> charlie-tca: the problem is the libs it needs are now GNOME3 libs
<charlie-tca> If we have to fix it, can't we just use the natty package?
<micahg> it's still a gnome2 app
<charlie-tca> it worked
<micahg> that's what's in oneiric :)
<charlie-tca> oh
<charlie-tca> I knew my thinking was faulty again
 * astraljava is just soooo confused now
<charlie-tca> astraljava: next install, try adding a new user or group
 * micahg will have to chat with gilir about this
<charlie-tca> Okay, I would like it working for beta1
<charlie-tca> Is that possible?
<charlie-tca> or at least we can project that?
<charlie-tca> might be beta2, but milestones are movable
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, let
<micahg> s  see what deps are needed, we could always look for a different tool as well
<charlie-tca> I agree
<micahg> but Lubuntu is in the same boat which is a plus for us :)
<charlie-tca>  and mythbuntu too
<micahg> charlie-tca: good news is unity-greeter won't be pulled in anymore :)
<astraljava> Yay!
<charlie-tca> yay!
<micahg> so, we have dailies back and i386 is almost oversized...
<charlie-tca> almost is okay
<charlie-tca> we can look at what is not needed again, since they always have ways of adding to us
<micahg> well, I'm guessing it was another incomplete library transition or 2
<charlie-tca> something else unity decided we need?
 * astraljava can't seem to get the desktop i386 installing in virtualbox
<charlie-tca> oh-oh
<micahg> ah, we inherited colord support :)
<charlie-tca> anything in particular yet?
<charlie-tca> see, micahg. I knew they 'helped' us again
<micahg> well, that's actually a good thing in this case, but it does take space :)
<charlie-tca> hm, how much of kde did we get?
<charlie-tca> I will look at this stuff after the meeting
<charlie-tca> astraljava: how far into the install?
<astraljava> Wait, something's not right. The desktop image doesn't have the "Try Xubuntu without <whatever>". What gives?
<charlie-tca> ubiquity got changed again
<charlie-tca> file a bug for it
<astraljava> Well it seems to have been a glitch with virtualbox, cause resetting it makes it progress, actually. *phew*
<astraljava> IPv6 autoconfiguration?! REALLY?!
<micahg> charlie-tca: kde? shouldn't be any, colord is a system service that makes it easy to manage, install and generate
<micahg>  colour profiles to accurately colour manage input and output devices.
<charlie-tca> I know that. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen
<micahg> heh, well upgrades are broke for me ATM due to a mono issue which I probably won't be able to debug until sunday
<charlie-tca> heh, well, at least you know how to do it. ;)
<astraljava> micahg: Bug #?
<micahg> astraljava: for what?
<astraljava> The mono issue?
<micahg> oh, haven't filed one yet due to apport thinking it's reported this before :)
<astraljava> Oh okay.
<astraljava> :)
<micahg> retracers are broke anyways due to the apt transition
<astraljava> Damn.
<charlie-tca> oh, my
<micahg> astraljava: bug 824858
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 824858 in mono (Ubuntu) "package libmono-webbrowser4.0-cil (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/mono/4.0/Mono.WebBrowser.dll', which is also in package libmono-webbrowser0.5-cil 2.10.1-4ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/824858
<GridCube> thats a nice bug name
<micahg> doesn't affect xubuntu since we don't ship banshee
<micahg> charlie-tca: dh_python2 and libssl1.0.0 transitions needed for xubuntu still, will request FFes for dh_python2 stuff
<charlie-tca>  Okay
<micahg> charlie-tca: sorry, should've told you that earlier :)
<charlie-tca> No problem. I discussed it last week with skaet and explained that we won't know much in advance what we need.
<astraljava> micahg: Thanks!
<charlie-tca> Okay, burning images to start testing
<astraljava> whee! /me just got the IPTV box and the modem for the broadband. Come Monday evening, I'll be (sort of) happy again.
<astraljava> Really? Supposed to look like this? http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/Xubuntu-desktop-lightdm-greeter_20110812.png
<knome> astraljava, why monday evening?
<knome> astraljava, that's the default unity-theme, without wallpaper
<astraljava> knome: Cause that's when they'll install the service.
<astraljava> knome: Gah!!!
<knome> aha
<madnick> I feel like a really naggy person :( but knome have you thought about the themes? :) I'm just kinda eager to get going with these stuff, since it will take quite some time to write it :P
<charlie-tca> newest thing in login themes!
<charlie-tca> Think it is all shook out now, madnick. 
<madnick> okay
<madnick> So Ill fetch todays image :)
<charlie-tca> not sure yet, but will know later today/this weekend.
<charlie-tca> I will be testing all images before monday, to see what happens
<charlie-tca> sync is almost finished, only another hour or so
<astraljava> Okay, so now it's the second Xubuntu session that needs to be selected to get into our shit.
<charlie-tca> well, depends on which session really works. it changes
<astraljava> Gotta figure out during the weekend why we have 2 at the first place.
<astraljava> Oh really?
<astraljava> Damn.
<charlie-tca> We have two because lightdm is not really fixed for us
<astraljava> So we know why, exactly?
<charlie-tca> because we use a symlink like it was suggested on bug 799754 , comment #13
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 799754 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Please let vendors easily provide their own config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799754
<charlie-tca> and that causes two sessions to appear
<charlie-tca> and mr_pouit has probably gone close to bald now trying to fix that and get some cooperation from Ubuntu for it.
<charlie-tca> because the best response we get is "it should work"
<charlie-tca> so, I guess, any help you can give would be appreciated!
<charlie-tca> We seem to be the ones pushing to get it right, so that all derivatives can use lightdm
<charlie-tca> astraljava: if it helps any, most of the other flavours are cheering for us :)
<astraljava> Oh alright. :) I'll have a look, I guess, but then I don't expect to get anywhere without talking to mr_pouit first.
<astraljava> Okay, well things seemed to work in vbox, outside the hidden bar at the bottom of the screen, so I'll do proper testing on the actual hw tomorrow/Sunday.
<charlie-tca> Great! If you do decide to investigate lightdm, maybe that bug provides a starting point?
<charlie-tca> Robert Ancell might be back next week, I don't know for sure. he gets a week on holiday after the summit
<astraljava> Sure, but I just think it's pointless to redo the same false fixes that mr_pouit has already done. :)
<charlie-tca> I agree. Hoping he is back too next week
<astraljava> Lionel is mr_pouit ?! I never knew! :D
<charlie-tca> yes, he is :)
<charlie-tca> madnick: I think just adding our own background to the lightdm screen could work
<charlie-tca> although I question the gear to the right of the user name
<charlie-tca> It's not very intuitive as to who is logging in
<charlie-tca> apparently, I didn't pick the right session, either
<astraljava> But now it shouldn't matter anymore, I was able to just log out and choose the correct one without penalties.
<charlie-tca> astraljava: where did you pick a session from?
<charlie-tca> this login screen doesn't have sessions
<astraljava> I think it was the gear that you mentioned, but I might forget already.
<charlie-tca> Yup, that really is not good for the user
<charlie-tca> madnick: I really prefer we use Sessions:
<charlie-tca> to indicate such
<charlie-tca> that icon is anything but usable without being told to try clicking it
<madnick> charlie-tca: using the wallpaper on top of the lightdm greeter?
<madnick> unity*
<charlie-tca> yes, with some changes, I guess, since that gear is not really usable to say "choose session here"
<charlie-tca> That really sucks
<charlie-tca> We still do not have a decent way to tell the user "choose the right session at login"
<charlie-tca> it still takes 12 steps to reset the session if the wrong session is logged into
<madnick> okay
<madnick> so adding a session list
<madnick> In the panel? Or in the main UI?
<charlie-tca> in the lightdm screen
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Really? I just restarted lightdm, and when the greeter came up again, I chose the correct one. Oh! Is that why I didn't see the hidden bar when brought the mouse cursor at the bottom?
<charlie-tca> replace the stupid gear to the right of the user with a "Choose Session: "
<madnick> could i see a screenshot?
 * madnick is downloading the image still
<charlie-tca> madnick: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/Xubuntu-desktop-lightdm-greeter_20110812.png
<charlie-tca> see where to choose the session?
<astraljava> madnick: Look above, I linked to one.
<astraljava> Ahh... there you have it. :)
<madnick> charlie-tca: nope :P I acctually do not
<charlie-tca> astraljava: yes, if you did not follow the 12 step reset, you didn't get the right session
<charlie-tca> madnick: it's that stupid looking gear thing
<madnick> oh!
<charlie-tca> Sorry, don't quite know what to call that
<charlie-tca> but I find it really stupid, myself
<madnick> So, you want to add a userlist there?
<charlie-tca> I want it to say "Choose session: ", please
<madnick> okay :)
<charlie-tca> That is the user list
<charlie-tca> Other, Janne, guest is the user list
<madnick> sorry, i slipped my mind :)
<madnick> Okay, but yeah, I can do that
<charlie-tca> Of course, if you have more than three or four users, it ain't really gonna fit, either
<madnick> hm
<madnick> How about adding it to that panel on the top right?
<madnick> like a dropdown list?
<charlie-tca> I think they have to add the two missing icons there, too
<charlie-tca> The sessions?
<madnick> yes
<charlie-tca> That would be fine, It just has to state "sessions: " specifically. That icon does not work.
<madnick> Okay
<charlie-tca> Some things are not easily expressed in a tiny icon. 
<madnick> :)
<madnick> Ill set it up, and paste a screenshow of it looks, when the install is done
<madnick> it will take like 2 hours from now :\
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> well, you did ask for input...
<charlie-tca> it just seems wrong now. I can adjust volume and use gmusicbrowser from the login screen, but I can not choose to restart or shutdown or sessions or accessibility?
<charlie-tca> astraljava: I got Try Xubuntu... on hardware
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Oh okay, maybe not possible in vbox/other virt?
<charlie-tca> possibility that it is broken again, yes
<charlie-tca> I don't know, since my VBox is broken again and I have to remove and reinstall to try and fix it
<madnick> cctually
<madnick> acctually* they are stock icons
<madnick> that are missing from us :)
<charlie-tca> what are?
<charlie-tca> oh
<charlie-tca> um, live session, second xubuntu session is wrong one
<charlie-tca> I see, so we have to replace those with icons that are really there?
<Unit193> I have 3 steps for fixing wrong session... >_>
<charlie-tca> I wish mr_pouit would get back. We need to decide if fixing this thing is really gonna work for us
<charlie-tca> Unit193: What are they?
<Unit193> 1. rm (~/).config 2. rm (~/).cache 3. Logout and back in
<Unit193> (Testing only, not actual system)
<charlie-tca> You forgot the "Open a terminal"
<charlie-tca> or is it in a tty?
<charlie-tca> oh, and also "find the quit icon in the panel. It is not on the right end in this session" thing
<Unit193> Alright, but you don't already have a few open?
<charlie-tca> no
<micahg> Unit193: be careful with instructions like that, it can wipe out stuff  on an install
<astraljava> Well, that's still 4 steps actually: 1. Ctrl + Alt + F[1-6], 2. rm .config, 3. rm .cache, 4. sudo service lightdm restart
<charlie-tca> I log in, I have to click on which panel setup to use, I close xfce tips, then I am staring at what is not the right screen
<Unit193> micahg: Yeah, I added that after but that's only telling charlie how I do it (Not going to tell others to use it)
<astraljava> micahg: True, but aren't we talking about .iso testing here? :)
<charlie-tca> steps just increased...
<Unit193> I actually use rm .cache && rm .config
<charlie-tca> 1. Ctrl+alt+F1, 2. login
<astraljava> Unit193: rm -rf maybe?
<micahg> astraljava: it depends, I just wanted that in there for people reading IRC logs
<Unit193> astraljava: Yeah. No sleep yesterday and not much today is really catching up :/
<astraljava> micahg: Good call. I always forget the logging.
<charlie-tca> 3. rm -r .cache 4. rm -r .cache 5. sudo service lightdm restart 6. Ctrl+Alt+F1 7. logout 8. Alt+F7
 * Unit193 Hates the logs ever so much@!!
<astraljava> Which is why I shoudl muthaf***ing clean my act up. *oops*
<charlie-tca> We are talking about anyone that installs oneiric and decides to keep it too
<astraljava> charlie-tca: You shouldn't have to log out after restarting lightdm.
<astraljava> What gives?
<charlie-tca> You gonna leave the tty logged into then?
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Does it matter?
<charlie-tca> It doesn't log you out automatically until you restart the computer, at which time it might hang because you are logged into a tty
<astraljava> Besides, you're in tty1 already, you don't have to Ctrl+Alt+F1 again.
<charlie-tca> no, restarting lightdm sends you to F7 to login
<astraljava> Ahh... crap.
<astraljava> Yeah, I did that in terminal while still running X.
<charlie-tca> Yeah, it doesn't seem so long when actually doing it, if you have done it before
 * astraljava takes the dog for a walk
<charlie-tca> and it worked from the terminal?
<charlie-tca> Well, I made it to the live session. It is the first xubuntu session now
<charlie-tca> bug 825414
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 825414 could not be found
<charlie-tca> bug 825414
<charlie-tca> anyway, that is for the nvidia-common failure
<charlie-tca> bug 825414
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 825414 in nvidia-common (Ubuntu) "nvidia-detector crashed with ValueError in __get_value_from_name(): invalid literal for int() with base 10: '173-updates'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/825414
<micahg> someone didn't filter their input :)
<charlie-tca> huh?
<charlie-tca> what input
<charlie-tca> oh
<charlie-tca> not me, right/
<charlie-tca> Who should I push it too?
<micahg> should be fine where it is
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> fun is just beginning
<micahg> right, more breakage to come :)
<charlie-tca> Going to be a great weekend!
<charlie-tca> hm, no password required to install apps in terminal
<charlie-tca> sudo apt-get install gnucash and it is installing it
<charlie-tca> no password required
<charlie-tca> oops
<charlie-tca> live session
<charlie-tca> probably better not to need the password
<charlie-tca> I will install xubuntu and try that again
<charlie-tca> I am jinxed
<charlie-tca> stuck at "Configuring target system for, oh, maybe an hour now
<charlie-tca> Let's see, set timer, 2 hours should be enough, start timer now
<charlie-tca> "Configuring target syste..." 
<charlie-tca> can't be stuck again, can it?
<Unit193> Stop, hammertime ;)
<charlie-tca> Gotta wait the 2 hours now, I started the timer already
<charlie-tca> going for a walk, will see what happens
<charlie-tca> I am starting to think this 10 american dollars computer is broke
<jarnos> I wish I could send you another, but I suppose it would be far more expensive to send.
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I would expect it to cost more for shipping that than
<charlie-tca> Well, I guess I should try the free one and see if it works
<jarnos> Good luck
<jarnos> I am a little confused about Swap. I have "/dev/mapper/cryptswap1 none swap sw 0 0" in /etc/fstab of Oneiric. Gparted is unable to detect swap partition, which I have meant to share between different installations. I updated my main installation to Natty form Maverick...
<jarnos> Sorry from Maverick to Natty. 
<jarnos> And Natty is supposed to have normal swap partition.
<jarnos> Does Oneiric somehow prohibit using the same partition for swap?
<charlie-tca> If the / or /home is encrypted, as far as I know, /swap must also be encrypted. 
<charlie-tca> I don't know what happens if /swap is encrypted by /home is not
<charlie-tca> I think I read they changed that stuff for oneiric
<charlie-tca> They have been working on encrypted stuff, since encrypting /home was blocking the user from logging in at all
<charlie-tca> There was a new fix for it today.
<jarnos> charlie-tca, IIRC I have never explicitly encrypted swap, but I suppose Oneiric installation did it when I chose to encrypt /home.
<charlie-tca> jarnos: thanks for your feedback on project lead, too. I had to wonder if the messages were even going through.
<charlie-tca> That would be my guess too. 
<jarnos> charlie-tca, you are welcome.
<charlie-tca> since /swap could be used in extreme cases for stuff in /home
<jarnos> oh
<charlie-tca> It is just covering all possibilities
<jarnos> As for swap, there is also Bug #709363
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 709363 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "swap partition disappeared during installation" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709363
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> might pull the syslog and partition log from /var/log/installer and attach them to the bug in hopes it will have more information for them to work with
<astraljava> I thought the things about project lead were just for the Xubuntu team, no?
<charlie-tca> why?
<charlie-tca> They are for all users interested in Xubuntu, actually. Might get more team players if it is advertised enough.
<charlie-tca> I have to insure it gets published twice before the change can take effect. Otherwise, it will not be valid
<jarnos> And Bug #42159
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 42159 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "If an existing swap partition is marked to be formatted, it gets "corrupted" and unused in the final installed system, because the LiveCD is using it" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42159
<charlie-tca> I haven't seen that happen here, jarnos 
<charlie-tca> The other one, I think I might have hit before
<charlie-tca> Not everyone on Xubuntu Team is subscribed to the -devel mailing list, so I sent it to -users, too
<jarnos> I wonder, if it is safe to format the partition now as swap in Natty; I mean can Oneiric use it after that?
<charlie-tca> I don't know
<charlie-tca> Anyone got Oneiric to install today from desktop images?
<madnick> Yes
<charlie-tca> desktop or "install now"?
<madnick> Oh, "install now"
<charlie-tca> Okay. I will try that too
<charlie-tca> Then I will try the desktop install on the other computer, too
<charlie-tca> Maybe I got what I paid for in this cheap computer
<charlie-tca> okay, install from menu worked
<charlie-tca> hm, user name is too long, and the gear is hidden by the name now
<astraljava> Noo.... really?! *facepalm*
<charlie-tca> heh, apparently, you better get the right number of letters in your name
<charlie-tca> trying the other computer, see if it will install from the desktop icon
 * Unit193 selected the wrong Xubuntu Session -_-
<Unit193> Anyone else get nvidia-detector crash on boot?
<Unit193> *First live boot
<charlie-tca> yup
<Unit193> Alright, ignores
<charlie-tca> that would be bug 825259
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 825259 in nvidia-common (Ubuntu Oneiric) "File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/NvidiaDetector/nvidiadetector.py", line 87, in __get_value_from_name v = int(name) - ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '173-updates'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/825259
<charlie-tca> Installing on second machine to check install from live desktop
<Unit193> Seems to be working for me (Since I did a few entires, I'm going with autoresize :P )
<charlie-tca> well, great! We have to try most of the install methods by monday, to see what is still broken
<Unit193> I could do an entire or manual (Or anything else really) today
<jarnos> I tried to update my Oneiric installation on hard disk, but it offered partial upgrade. Is that recommended or something that might change, if I try it later?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-13
<charlie-tca> Full disk installation completes from desktop using 64bit 
<charlie-tca> Never do a partial upgrade.
 * Unit193 wonders why Ubuntu has options you should never use...
<charlie-tca> like partial upgrades?
<charlie-tca> because some users insist on doing things to hurt themselves, and we all believe in allowing that
<charlie-tca> Okay, back to the swimming pool
<charlie-tca> got to fix the pipes before dark here, about 1 more hour
<Unit193> That's just fine, but shouldn't there be a warning?
<Unit193> Anywho, have fun?
<charlie-tca> about the pipes?
<charlie-tca> you want a warning for what?
<charlie-tca> Unit193: you do know those things in the bottom panel are launchers, not just icons, right?
<charlie-tca> If you don't change the apps by editing the launcher, they are what they started as
<Unit193> charlie-tca: That's the one and only that will follow the defaults you pick
<charlie-tca> Those will always be what they started as, since they are not calling preferred settings, but actual applications
<charlie-tca> hm, apparently, my cheap computer is not any good for testing, since it keeps failing things 
<Unit193> Yes, but links (ln) will not follow Menu > Settings > Settings Manager > Preferred Applications > Utilities > File Manager
<Unit193> Try setting to anything else and use Gigolo or a link on the desktop (Dir link)
<charlie-tca> Does it work after a reboot?
<Unit193> Nope
<charlie-tca> If it won't work after rebooting, that is a bug and should be filed
<Unit193> I thought xfce = require thunar
<charlie-tca> no
<Unit193> Sorry for being thick in that case
<charlie-tca> Xfce is very modular, no single module is required
<charlie-tca> No problem. it takes time to learn all the little things about this great environment.
<charlie-tca> I still learn something new about it every day.
<charlie-tca> To the best of my knowledge, gnome *does* require nautilus now, but we don't any part to make the rest of Xfce work
<charlie-tca> Of course, there is the thing that says if you remove something and it breaks things, maybe that wasn't a good idea :)
<Unit193> Dang, I'm going to have to be the idiot that says "You can't use anything but the Xfce file manager on Xfce" (Changed wording to sound more stupid :P )
<charlie-tca> I try to keep these discussions over here. It lets the user think we are all knowing ;)
<charlie-tca> Works for me :)
<Unit193> You're kidding?
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> Going to sleep now. It is late for me
<charlie-tca> Good night, and see you in the mornign
<Unit193> Good night and good rest
<Unit193> Alright, I'm going to give up for now on finding how to do it (Only started about 12:30-1)
<Unit193> Sat Aug 13 02:27:20 EDT 2011
<Unit193> However, Bug #709147 and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/usr/share/xubuntu/applications/defaults.list seem to be a tad bit related (as does http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/helpers.rc and ~/.config/xfce4/helpers.rc )
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 709147 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Set default file manager" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709147
<Unit193> Err... Wrong bug, I was trying to point to Bug #794720 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 794720 in exo (Ubuntu) "xubuntu desktop fails to respect "preferred applications"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/794720
<charlie-tca> my computer hates me
<GridCube> that happens
<charlie-tca> One computer, will install anything except Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> That just seems wrong
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Anyway, if you didn't read up, the already reported bug is bug 794720
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 794720 in exo (Ubuntu) "xubuntu desktop fails to respect "preferred applications"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/794720
<charlie-tca> Unit193: read it
<charlie-tca> still a valid bug, but we don't have a good fix for it
<astraljava> I believe mr_pouit is right about that. mozilla apps are weird, in that sense.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-14
<micahg> \o/ oneiric lightdm doesn't work without unity greeter :P
<pleia2> oh dear
<madnick> charlie said we are gonna use the unity greeter, but modified to display sessions in the panel
<micahg> madnick: hmm, why not use the GTK greeter modifieD>
<micahg> unity greeter depends on libindicate
<madnick> micahg: I wanted to make a modified gtk greeter
<madnick> but charlie wanted the unity one
<micahg> eh, I suppose that we have the dependency already
<madnick> when i looked at the unity greeter source
<madnick> everything was pretty much hardcoded
<madnick> i do not like that
<micahg> right
<madnick> the only things missing from the unity greeter in xubuntu is some stock icons, a bg and moving the session list to the panel
<GridCube> hello people
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> Today's my brother birthday so I wont be able to attend the meeting, please share my progress on the TOP 10 FAQ  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HyhsMPDyyN-mRWRujfZX3JuKX9aWFQPWsxMEiJX99gQ/edit
<micahg> GridCube: thanks
<GridCube> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HyhsMPDyyN-mRWRujfZX3JuKX9aWFQPWsxMEiJX99gQ/edit?hl=es
<GridCube> the first link was broken
<GridCube> micahg, thanks :)
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 64 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> live session auto-login works using today's images.
<charlie-tca> Thank you! whoever made that work. We also only have two sessions today, xfce and xubuntu.
 * micahg thinks that was mr_pouit's upload of xubuntu-defailt-settings
<micahg> but unity-greeter is needed to login now :(
<charlie-tca> Even the encrypted whole drive install worked
<charlie-tca> Is that what we got now?
<charlie-tca> madnick is going to fix that, right?
<micahg> no
<charlie-tca> no? unity-greeter?
<micahg> well, we have lightdm-gtk-greeter seeded and I had seb128 fix the recommends so we would get the gtk greeter again, but unity-greeter seems to be hardcoded now
<charlie-tca> madnick is building us a xubuntu-greeter
<charlie-tca> I see
<charlie-tca> seems like every step forward pushes us back again
 * micahg isn't sure if we're just missing a conf file or if it's not customizable
<charlie-tca> I think we are missing a conf file. We are supposed to be able to replace unity-greeter with our own 
<charlie-tca> The difference from Friday's images to todays images is big! We got things working, at least
<micahg> well, I can't look into it today, I need to catch up on work, I should be around for the meeting though
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> I was going to skip today, but I guess I will be around too
<charlie-tca> micahg: no, unity-greeter can not be hard coded. seb128 been following our lightdm bugs closely, and has assured me we can put our own settings in now and over-ride Ubuntu settings
<charlie-tca> I am seeing a different login screen today than friday, too. It has the old gdm user list centered on a dark blue background, instead of the all black background with the names offset to the left.
<charlie-tca> micahg: unity-greeter Installed: (none) 
<charlie-tca> fresh install using today's image
<charlie-tca> apt-cache policy lightdm-gtk-greeter Installed: 0.9.3-0ubuntu3
<micahg> yeah
<micahg> I guess something's not right with my install then
<charlie-tca> Yeah, friday's images were bad, too, for that. They were using unity-greeter
<charlie-tca> The problem is, when they change these files around, they do not fix the "already installed" user base files
<madnick> meeting time? :)
<micahg> o/
<charlie-tca> oops
<charlie-tca> sure
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Aug 14 22:02:21 2011 UTC.  The chair is charlie-tca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<charlie-tca> #link The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> I hope that works, anyway
<charlie-tca> * Old business
<charlie-tca> * Team updates
<charlie-tca>   * Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca>   * Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca>   * Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca>   * Artwork
<charlie-tca>   * Documentation
<charlie-tca> * Announcements
<charlie-tca> * Governance structure
<charlie-tca> * Any Other Business
<charlie-tca> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<charlie-tca> #topic Old business
<meetingology> TOPIC: Old business
<charlie-tca> * GridCube to put together the "TOP 10" for Xubuntu - In-work
<charlie-tca> GridCube: update on this?
<micahg> [15:49] <GridCube> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HyhsMPDyyN-mRWRujfZX3JuKX9aWFQPWsxMEiJX99gQ/edit?hl=es
<charlie-tca> Very nice! Thanks for working on those, GridCube 
<charlie-tca> Thank you for the link, micahg 
<charlie-tca>  * madnick to look into building a lightdm greeter - In-work
<GridCube> :) ok
<charlie-tca> madnick: update? 
<GridCube> i meant, you are welcome
<madnick> Well
<charlie-tca> If you haven't heard yet, today's images are the ones to grab to see how lightdm is working for us
<madnick> Im not sure, because you told me that we should pretty much use the unity greeter 
<charlie-tca> We no longer have unity-greeter, but are using lightdm-gtk-greeter today
<ChristopherNG> hello
<charlie-tca> oh, confusion then?
<charlie-tca> hello, ChristopherNG 
<madnick> Well, the confusing is, should i modify that
<madnick> Or should I wait for final words :)
<charlie-tca> madnick: if it is easier to take unity-greeter and rebuild it for us, you can do that. If it is easier to write your own, that is fine too
<charlie-tca> I leave it up to you. I will be happy with either solution.
<charlie-tca> I just don't want a stupid gear to click for sessions
<madnick> Well, I can do either, I just need a good theme, Im working on a draft, but i really like knome or oschi to tell me where they stand on the matter
<madnick> I know knome wanted to center the unity greeters login box
<madnick> And I know you wanted to move / fix the session stuff
<charlie-tca> Okay. That will be fine. Seeing that we just got something to work with, we should be able to get freeze exceptions to get it in, if we really need them.
<madnick> Okay :)
<madnick> ..
<charlie-tca> What do you think would be best? offset or centered?
<madnick> Im not sure, I like the current style of it
<madnick> The positions*
<micahg> UI freeze is in a week and a half
<charlie-tca> Then you can put them there. We can change it if the users hate it for the next release.
<madnick> Okay, ill set that up in the week that follows
<charlie-tca> Press on, put the list where you like it, but give me a sessions text please.
<charlie-tca> If knome don't like it, well, we can work with him on that. But I think you have a good grasp on it, and will let you build it for this release. 
<charlie-tca> Go for it, please
<madnick> okay, thanks :)
<charlie-tca> Any other comments or questions on old business?
<ChristopherNG> Hello, I hate to say something because im very new here, I was actually at the last meeting but remained silent.
<charlie-tca> go ahead
<ChristopherNG> I would like to confirm if xubuntu has an "add monitor" button like ubuntu and if not will it ever add one?
<charlie-tca> where would it be?
<ChristopherNG> display settings
<ChristopherNG> i see it in ubuntu, never seen it for xubuntu
<charlie-tca> Never seen it, maybe it is something from gnome instead of gtk
<charlie-tca> We will not have one unless Xfce adds one to the settings panel
<charlie-tca> ..
<charlie-tca> #topic === Team updates ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Team updates ===
<charlie-tca> #topic ==== Packaging & Development ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Packaging & Development ====
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Your turn, please
<charlie-tca> micahg: Got an update?
<micahg> last week we got a few updates from Debian
<micahg> mr_pouit uploaded a new xubuntu settings package
<micahg> we still have a couple of transitions to do (dh_python2 and libssl)
<charlie-tca> We have pastebinit seeded, right?
<micahg> yep
<charlie-tca> and the big questions, a few bugs still to work on:
<micahg> we're at 700MB onthe i386 live ISO ATM
<charlie-tca> Bug #799754 Please let vendors easily provide their own config
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 799754 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Please let vendors easily provide their own config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799754
<charlie-tca> Is this fixed for us now?
<micahg> idk
<charlie-tca> Bug #799514 xubuntu-restricted-extras doesn't contain Java - non-default repository
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 799514 in ubuntu-restricted-extras (Ubuntu) "xubuntu-restricted-extras doesn't contain Java" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799514
<charlie-tca> java is part of partners now, I don't know if we can add it to the package
<charlie-tca> since partners is not enabled by default
<micahg> so, there are 2 parts, right, adding sun-java is complicated for that reason
<charlie-tca> right
<micahg> openjdk is in there right now though
<charlie-tca> yes
<micahg> Ubuntu can't seed openjdk due to space
<charlie-tca> So we should be able to sign that bug off with that 
<charlie-tca> We are close on space again. 386 desktop is now 700mb
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, in theory, I guess we could at least suggest a partner package in xubuntu-restricted-extras, I didn't ask about that specifically
<charlie-tca> If partner is not turned on by default, the user will have to specifically add it or we will get a broken package report, won't we?
<micahg> hmm, I don't think so, on a suggests it for sure won't be a problem, gmusicbrowser suggests a package we dropped from the archive
<charlie-tca> wait, if we provide openjdk, we don't need to provide sun java also
<madnick> \o
<charlie-tca> We give the user one of those, not both
<charlie-tca> go ahead, madnick 
<madnick> openjdk cannot really measure with sun-java
<micahg> well, openjdk is already in the restricted-addons package, the question was to actually see it or not, the reporter thought that sun-java made more sense in a restricted addons metapakcage
<micahg> s/see/seed/
<charlie-tca> but it is considered a valid open source replacement
<charlie-tca> micahg: that is wishlist then. I don't think we should seed sun java.
<micahg> no, we wouldn't seed sun-java, we could seed openjdk if we had the space and desire to though
<charlie-tca> Yes, let's get things settled down, and see if that is possible. 
<charlie-tca> If we don't get it for Oneiric, that's not a problem, though.
<charlie-tca> and, my last bug:
<charlie-tca> Bug #789333 users-admin crashes on start because of mixed GTK2 and 3 symbols - we are the fix team if we plan to use this for the gui settings.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 789333 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "users-admin crashes on start because of mixed GTK2 and 3 symbols" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/789333
<charlie-tca> If we aren't fixing this, we need to remove menu item
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: any comment on this?
<micahg> well, if we can't remove the dependency on the ported to GTK3 libraries, we'd have to drop it in favor of something else (if it exists)
<charlie-tca> yup
<micahg> or upload another copy of the GTK2 versions of those libs
<charlie-tca> If nothing else exists, then users will have to use the CLI
<charlie-tca> Any other comments or questions for Development?
<micahg> mythbuntu, ubuntustudio, and lubuntu are all in the same boat, we should probably have a collective meeting about it
<charlie-tca> Good idea, but that takes you and mr_pouit, right?
 * astraljava would probably attend as well
<micahg> + gilir, superm1, scottl
<charlie-tca> oh, and let's not forget, astraljava would like to help with development too
<charlie-tca> Okay, who is going to set that up?
<micahg> hmm, I probably should I guess
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] micahg will set up meeting with derivatives to decide what to do with bug 789333
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg will set up meeting with derivatives to decide what to do with bug 789333
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 789333 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "users-admin crashes on start because of mixed GTK2 and 3 symbols" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/789333
<charlie-tca> Okay, include astraljava 
<charlie-tca> #topic ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====
<charlie-tca> We got working images!
<charlie-tca> Very hard to test things when we don't get images all week
<charlie-tca> today's images appear to be working fully. 
<charlie-tca> Any body that can test these this next week, please do so. We need to find out now what is working and what is broken.
<charlie-tca> madnick: is plymouth ready to add to the images?
<madnick> charlie-tca: yes and no:
<madnick> oschi did not like it 100% knome said he'd think of something, but i have not recvied any word on it
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> We got to have that next week
<charlie-tca> I can't throw a new plymouth out for final, and then find out it don't work for most users 
<madnick> perhaps we could get people to look into what they think
<madnick> Oh, it works technically
<madnick> Its artistically they dont like it
<madnick> well, "Not like", they wanted to change the progress bar
<charlie-tca> Well, I would lean more to what ochosi thought at this point. 
<madnick> Problem is that ochosi is away
<charlie-tca> okay, let's wait for them to do something. If we don't get them to decide, though, it may wind up waiting for the next release.
<madnick> Okay, it be too bad, because its just a little detail :(
<charlie-tca> yes, but a little detail is holding it up for at least two weeks already, right?
<madnick> Yes, unfortunetly
<charlie-tca> I still can't get it to work here, except for shutdown
<madnick> Well, that is a plymouth problem, in that plymouth application itself, not sure if there is anything to do about that
<madnick> The script I wrote works on all machines that usually get a splash
<madnick> We are several versions behind on plymouth also
<charlie-tca> !info plymouth
<ubottu> plymouth (source: plymouth): graphical boot animation and logger - main package. In component main, is required. Version 0.8.2-2ubuntu23 (natty), package size 110 kB, installed size 476 kB
<charlie-tca> !info plymouth oneiric
<ubottu> plymouth (source: plymouth): graphical boot animation and logger - main package. In component main, is required. Version 0.8.2-2ubuntu25 (oneiric), package size 119 kB, installed size 500 kB
<charlie-tca> Those aren't the latest, huh?
<charlie-tca> 0.8.2
<madnick> Hm
<madnick> Now Im unsure about that
<charlie-tca> Okay, try and get those two artists to give you something. I need this plymouth package ready by the next meeting
<madnick> okay
<charlie-tca> I think ochosi is back Monday, but I am unsure
<charlie-tca> Does anyone besides me find the bug tracker at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/OneiricOcelot handy?
<charlie-tca> I seem to find myself looking at that daily
<astraljava> Looks handy indeed. Just didn't know about it until now.
<charlie-tca> #topic ==== Website & Marketing ====
<meetingology> TOPIC: ==== Website & Marketing ====
<charlie-tca> pleia2, knome : any update?
<charlie-tca> #topic === Announcements ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Announcements ===
<charlie-tca>  * The next meeting will be on Sunday, 2011-08-22 at 19:00 UTC
<charlie-tca>  * Important dates coming up:
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 FeatureFreeze : In effect as of August 11, 2011 at 21:00 UTC
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 BetaFreeze: Aug 25, 2011 at 21:00 UTC
<charlie-tca>   * User Interface Freeze : August 25, 2011 at 21:00 UTC
<charlie-tca>   * 11.10 Release Date: October 13, 2011
<charlie-tca>   * UDS-P will be in Orlando, Florida the week of October 31 - Nov 4. Please apply for sponsorship by August 24.
<charlie-tca>   * UDS-P information at http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/07/15/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-2/
<charlie-tca> Thik I covered all the important ones there
<charlie-tca> s/thik/think
<charlie-tca> #topic === Xubuntu Governance ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Xubuntu Governance ===
<charlie-tca> === Xubuntu Governance ===
<charlie-tca>  * The governancy part of the current Strategy Document can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Governance_.26_Team_Structure
<charlie-tca> Since I have gotten a couple of comments/questions concerning the proposed, the review period will run one more week. 
<charlie-tca> #topic === Any Other Business ===
<meetingology> TOPIC: === Any Other Business ===
<charlie-tca> anything can be brought up at this time. 
<charlie-tca> Are there any comments or questions still out there?
<charlie-tca> I will thank each and every one of you for participating in this meeting.
<charlie-tca> We will meet again right here in one week.
<micahg> err, 8 days :)
<charlie-tca> anything...
<charlie-tca> um, okay, just over one week
<charlie-tca> lol
<charlie-tca> anything at all?
<charlie-tca> Let's go get something done. 
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Aug 14 22:51:36 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2011/xubuntu-devel.2011-08-14-22.02.moin.txt
<micahg> thanks charlie-tca 
<madnick> :)
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<astraljava> Wait, what?
<charlie-tca> madnick: I know, I know. getting pushy
<astraljava> Sunday's not 22nd.
<charlie-tca> Should be Monday next time
<charlie-tca> Let's keep it a little bit confusing, right? ;)
<astraljava> Hehe. :D
<astraljava> Sure.
<astraljava> Okay, off to bed. Later!
<madnick> later
<charlie-tca> Good night
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit is back, but must be busy, I see he removed the away today.
<ChristopherNG> is the meeting over?
<madnick> yes
<ChristopherNG> that was really short :(
 * madnick is getting awesome download speed on todays images :)
<charlie-tca> rub it in... ;)
<charlie-tca> 386 alternate install gives a beautiful pink lightdm screen
<ChristopherNG> its on charlie-tca you have all the hershey bars
<ChristopherNG> ok*
<madnick> Ill put this on my devstation, and start building the LDM greeter
<charlie-tca> at least 64bit had blue backgrounds
<madnick> whats a aLinux? :)
 * madnick files bug report
<charlie-tca>  a what?
<madnick> additonal drivers wants to install "support for aLinux host" 
<madnick> Just a typo
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-06
<Unit193> That's great, yep.
<elfy> thanks Unit193 
<mips1911> Why does xubuntu not apply the same font config as ubuntu? I'm not talking about the actual fonts used but the rendering.
<mips1911> xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Xft/Lcdfilter -n -t string -s lcddefault
<pleia2> does craig cooper know he's sending all these emails to -devel instead of -users?
<pleia2> he's not providing bug report numbers
<pleia2> knome: thumbs up from canonical trademarks about using the xubuntu logo for non-commercial promotion (and an apology for the email getting lost)
<pleia2> +name
<knome> pleia2, fantastic!
<knome> new samsung ultrabook bought \o/
<pleia2> ooh shiny
<knome> yes
<knome> though it still has win7
<knome> ...not very long
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> just started creating startup disk
<knome> sisters husband bought a new laptop too :P
<knome> a 17.6" hp notebook mostly for home use
<bluesabre> Fancy.  I'll get a System76 machine if I can ever afford another laptop
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-07
<astraljava> o/  12.04.1 images are up, so please if you have time, look at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/precise/daily[-live]/current/ and help us assure they're working correctly. I'll fire up an email to the lists today.
<knome> astraljava, cool
<kalxas> hi pleia2 :)
<pleia2> hi there kalxas 
<kalxas> how are you?
<pleia2> good, how are your images doing?
<kalxas> FYI we left remastersys method and we are working with the chroot customization method
<kalxas> much better now
<pleia2> great
<kalxas> we have some hiccups left though
<kalxas> to make it interesting
<kalxas> we have been rebuilding initrd.lz file to customize casper.conf and scripts regarding username and password. We have not managed to replace the background image though, which suprisingly should be the easiest one
<pleia2> huh
<kalxas> we even tried to replace the default image in initrd with our image (using the same filename)
<kalxas> didn't work!
<kalxas> I guess the image exists in multiple places...
<kalxas> sorry to bother you, we can talk when you have some time
<pleia2> unfortunately I'm not all that familiar with this part
<kalxas> perhaps you can point me to someone who works on that?
<pleia2> you might give #ubuntu-devel a shot, more people there
<kalxas> ok thanks :)
<kalxas> have a nice day
<pleia2> good luck :)
<kalxas> pleia2, unfortunately no luck in xubuntu, ubuntu and ubuntu-devel...
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-08
<mips1911> anyone here working on 4.10?
<bluesabre> By "working on", do you mean developing or using?
<mips1911> bluesabre, no worries I sorted my problem out thanks. Somehow two apps loaded by default after login even though i had save session on logout disabled. I deleted the .caches/session files and all is well now.
<mips1911> bluesabre, are you a dev?
<bluesabre> Not really a dev, more of a tester
<mips1911> ok, actually had a unrelated query for one the devs as well wrt to default font rending in xubuntu
<bluesabre> Yup, can't help you there.  :D
<mips1911> maybe I should just log a ticket in launchpad
<mips1911> bluesabre, are you happy with your fonts in xubuntu?
<bluesabre> Yeah, I've no problem with them.  Everything is nice and crisp.
<mips1911> you can make them better. The dafault font rendering is not the same as that of ubuntu.
<bluesabre> The fonts actually look better than Ubuntu on my laptop
<bluesabre> I guess I'm lucky
<bluesabre> lol
<mips1911> try this, you could always remove it afterwards:  xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Xft/Lcdfilter -n -t string -s lcddefault
<bluesabre> k, brb
<mips1911> xubuntu does not even specify that option and it makes a BIG difference
<bluesabre> Don't really see much of a difference
<mips1911> are you using the default xubuntu font setup?
<mips1911> what output do you get for xrdb -query
<mips1911> paste the output here http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<bluesabre> According the xfconf-editor the default is lcddefault
<mips1911> this is what my setup looks like and it's copied from ubuntu, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1136374/
<mips1911> screenshot of font config, http://ompldr.org/vZjE3OQ/fonts.png
<mips1911> brb, just wanna check this in a vm with standard xubuntu install
<bluesabre> I find that fonts look better with "Slight" hinting
<knome> probably depends on the monitor and font too :)
<bluesabre> True
<bluesabre> In that case, thanks Devs for creating the perfect setup for my laptop
<knome> :)
<knome> just good luck... ;)
<bluesabre> btw, ochosi should be back online soon, right?
<knome> umm, just before FF
<knome> so maybe 20th or so
<bluesabre> I think the new parole is done (there's a few remaining bugs that are a pain) and catfish is also done
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> great
<Pjotr> Hello, I've found a bug in Xubuntu, which only happens when you install LibreOffice in Xubuntu.
<pleia2> bug #?
<Pjotr> The default path for storing documents, does not take into account the localization of Xubuntu. The name "Documents" is not changed in accordance with the localization of the system.
<Pjotr> So the path is always (e.g.) "/home/pjotr/Documents", whereas it should be (in my Dutch localized system) "/home/pjotr/Documenten".
<knome> actually, it's stupid that LO expects you to have any dir in your home
<Pjotr> This causes the documents to be stored in the main user folder, in my case /home/pjotr.
<Pjotr> Against which package should I file a bug report on Launchpad?
<Pjotr> Against LibreOffice or against some package that takes care of localization in general?
<knome> LO
<micahg> Pjotr: do you have the LO language pack installeD?
<Pjotr> yes, LO is entirely localized for the rest.
<Pjotr> I have filed a bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1034521
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1034521 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice in Xubuntu: the default file path for storing documents, does not take into account the localization of the system" [Undecided,New]
<Pjotr> Feel free to endorse it. :-)
<Pjotr> knome: will this do?
<Pjotr> micahg: can you help?
<micahg> Pjotr: do you have libreoffice-l10n-nl installed?
<Pjotr> micahg: yes
<micahg> no idea then
<Pjotr> it's not a big issue, but surely some simple config file of LO is involved, which should be easy to change?
<micahg> might not be so simple, LO is ~12M LoC
<Pjotr> it's easy to change by hand, in the preferences of LO....
<Pjotr> Oh well, it's not an big issue anyway. So not much is at stake. :-)
 * micahg wishes people wouldn't disappear like that
<knome> yeah, me too
<knome> isn't really helpful to come tell something isn't working, and then disappear
 * micahg was going to suggest adding his "fix" to the bug
<pleia2> phasing out? http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/XFCE-Makes-Mint-Even-Fresher-75842.html
 * micahg would ask for sources
<pleia2> yeah, leaving a comment now
<drc> Sources? Sources? We doan need no stinkin' sources!
<drc> Sources are the last resort of the journalisticly incompetent.
<knome> lolwut
<pleia2> of course comments are moderated :)
<knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/233285874123673600
<pleia2> knome: can we put a link to our news archives on the front of xubuntu.org?
<pleia2> xubuntu.org/archive/ exists, but I don't think we link to it anywhere
<knome> hmm. i thought it was on the "further information" column
<knome> yeah, we can add that
<pleia2> ok, I'll add it to that column
<knome> ok, thanks
<knome> i wonder what my ubuntu SSO password is
<Unit193> Launchpad one.
<knome> yes. but what that is
<knome> most probably not 'sausage'
<Unit193> Look at the textfile on your desktop named "passwords-and-things"
<knome> :P
<knome> file not found
<knome> Ã¤esch
<knome> no ssh server installed on desktop?
<knome> sucks
<knome> :)
<micahg> no, not by default
<micahg> no open ports by default
<Unit193> It is here for me, one of the things I have to setup (disable pass, force key...)
<micahg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Policies#No_Open_Ports
<knome> micahg, no, i just thought i had set that up
<bluesabre> Hello everyone, please test the latest master for parole.  At this point, I think its ready for release.  http://git.xfce.org/apps/parole/
<bluesabre> I think it requires 4.10 to build
<micahg> seems to only need 4.8 still
<micahg> m4_define([libxfce4ui_minimum_version],[4.7.0])
<micahg> m4_define([libxfce4util_minimum_version],[4.6.0])
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-09
<cody-somerville> knome, Hey. I assume the new website theme for xubuntu.org doesn't incorporate the Google Analytic code as I just noticed traffic dropped off heavily February 3rd, lol.
<Unit193> cody-somerville: Who all has access to that anyway?
<cody-somerville> Unit193, Charlie, Pasi, and myself currently have access
<Unit193> Ta.
<knome> cody-somerville, can you remind me of the GA admin url? i'll add analytics when i have time
<knome> there might even be plugins for that...
<Unit193> There is.
<knome> inkscape tilted and so did the whole laptop.
<bluesabre> Well, there we go.  Parole 0.3.0 is released :-)
<bluesabre> (Might not have hit the MLs yet)
<micahg> that's the first major release in 2 years
<knome> hihi
<bluesabre> Yeah, let's not let that happen again
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Regarding bug #775117
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 775117 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar hangs on first launch of each session" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775117
<bluesabre> Any way we could ship a different config for  /usr/share/gvfs/mounts/network.mount, settings AutoMount=false
<cody-somerville> knome, http://www.google.com/analytics/
<malv1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1001936 can we have this patch applied to 12.04?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001936 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu Precise) "GTK3 Grab/Move Triggered on Mouse Click" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<knome> micahg, possible?
<malv1> the same patch that works for 4.10 works for 4.8
<micahg> knome: if you get me a 12.04.1 exception, I'll see if I can get it uploaded later
<knome> micahg, it's a deal. i'll try to do that tomorrow.
<bluesabre> Why can't everything just work like it does in Xubuntu?  :(
<knome> :P
<drc> Is that everything-stable or -current :)
<bluesabre> Depends on if you consider developing while using the xfce-4.10 stable
<bluesabre> (ppa)
<drc> Is that everything-stable or -current :)
<drc> sorry
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-10
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit: are we going to ship ristretto 0.6.3 in 12.10?
<micahg> I don't see a reason not to, it should go to Debian first
<knome> yes
<knome> can we make sure it goes to debian? :]
<pleia2> btw, we're on this list for downtime this weekend: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2012-August/005922.html
<astraljava> pleia2: Thanks for the heads-up, I'll also warn people over at the Studio side.
<elfy> gonna be great - no forum spam for 12 hours 
<pleia2> hehe
<elfy> :)
<elfy> pleia2: is that loco-contacts page visible to anyone? the forum will make an announcement about the forum - might be worth linking that as well if it's world viewable
<elfy> and I apologise for it being in this channel ... 
<pleia2> elfy: yep, and I'm cross-posting the announcement to fridge.ubuntu.com (which isn't on the list, so hopefully will stay up, unless they forgot it...)
<elfy> okey doke - will try and get it into forum announcement
<cc_INC> Ello guys, what's happening? :)
<pleia2> ok, there we go http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/08/10/community-site-downtime-announcement/
<elfy> ty
<pleia2> switching to the @xubuntu handle was a good idea, we're getting like 2-5 followers a day now
<pleia2> (previously it was like 1-2)
<pleia2> +twitter
<cc_INC> Nice! I always try to #FF @Xubuntu :)
<pleia2> :D
<Unit193> I randomly check them even, may set up a bot so I don't have to check them. :D
<cc_INC> Being the Xubuntu Advocate that I am I mentioned Xubuntu on the web page of my musical project Ten Of Eleven www.tenofeleven,org
<cc_INC> Credits.
<cc_INC> I recently switched completely from Mac Osx (Logic) to creating tunes with Xubuntu (LMMS) the next release is gonna be full-on opensource. Whenever I get booked to DJ I will try to get spotted with a Xubuntu shirt or some merchandise of some sort :)
<cc_INC> ....maybe a bit off-topic there. Sorry :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-11
<pleia2> testdrive is pretty sweet
<pleia2> (yes, I know, welcome to the party)
<knome> hmm?:P
<pleia2> started using TestDrive for the VM-based iso testing
<knome> aha
<knome> i thought the racing game
<pleia2> haha, no, I am being productive today!
<knome> ;)
<knome> me not
<knome> but hey, it's weekend
<pleia2> hah, working
<pleia2> oh, we can talk over here
<knome> yes :P
<pleia2> so docs, still with just over a month I'm wondering if we want to keep chugging away at the full rewrite but encourage people to review the existing documentation so we can cherry-pick updates that will at least make the documentation accurate
<pleia2> maybe just have them submit bug reports on https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs for things they find
<knome> a month is generousm if people would just work on it
<knome> -m
<pleia2> yeah, but there doesn't seem to be much happening :]
<knome> maybe we should send private launchpad messages for those who signed up
<kalxas> hi pleia2, I just wanted to let you know that all past issues are solved
<pleia2> kalxas: great! did you end up going with your new script?
<kalxas> we have one last issue before RC, we need the live session user to be under "users" group and not under "user" group
<kalxas> yes, we use the chroot method
<kalxas> remastersys is out of the window
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> knome: gah, sent to list with wrong email address, resending
<knome> pleia2, fsst :P
<pleia2> kalxas: do you have the script which worked available somewhere? I'd like to give it a try at some point (and update the ubuntu help wiki if needed with your fixes)
<kalxas> pleia2, sure. It is now broken into 2 scripts: https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/browser/livedvd/gisvm/trunk/bin/build_chroot.sh
<kalxas> and https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/browser/livedvd/gisvm/trunk/bin/inchroot.sh
<pleia2> cool, thanks
<kalxas> the second is called with sudo chroot <folder> sh inchroot.sh
<kalxas> so to avoid repeating chroot all the time :)
<pleia2> ah, good
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-12
<micahg> mr_pouit: if/when you upload to ristretto to Debian, can you switch to xz compression?
<knome> datetime shows sunday first and no way to change? :(
<astraljava> datetime?
<astraljava> You're already married, there's no place for dating for you anymore.
<knome> :P
<knome> i'm announcing a meeting for next week
<knome> done
<mr_pouit> micahg: I'm not a dd :P Anyway, I can switch things in svn, and ask Corsac to upload. Does ristretto greatly benefit from xz compression? (we can switch more packages before FF)
<pleia2> updated calendar
<knome> mr_pouit, xz compression? huhu?
 * micahg tries compressing ristretto with xz
<micahg> mr_pouit: ristretto saves ~60k which is about 25%
<micahg> mr_pouit: can we recompress everything with xz (or at least anything we upload between now and release?
<micahg> mr_pouit: although, this only affects the alternates mainly, we're still up a creek with the desktop image since it's all in squashfs
<micahg> mr_pouit: maybe discuss with corsac first before changing though, it won't make much of a difference anyways (I think we can work around the alternates without changing the xfce packages)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-05
<skellat> pleia2 unit193 knome: We have the claim being made in a comment posted to LP Bug 1208250 that we don't have Mir as Mir isn't in the images on cdimages.u.c.  We're not using the images from cdimages.u.c in this case, though.  Could somebody please follow up and adjust this?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208250 in Ubuntu "Complete graphic corruption on live boot" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208250
<Unit193> skellat: You can get the data if you ssh -X the thing.
<skellat> Unit193: :-) Yeah, but that presumes networking functioned.  Even the netbook which brought it up somewhat stable graphics-wise couldn't function network-wise even with Cat5 plugged in.
<Unit193> Bleh.
<skellat> Both times I ran it the machine concerned fell off the in-house net
<skellat> So, yeah, I woulda needed the serial console to extract anything
<Unit193> I'd suppose it might be the same for the others, which would require an installed system.
<Unit193> Bug report back to new.
<skellat> LP 1208242 is apparently a duplicate
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199450 in Mir "duplicate for #1208242 [xmir] Inputs slowing, last event of a stream of events greatly delayed" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199450
<skellat> LP 1208250 continues as an existing bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208250 in Ubuntu "Complete graphic corruption on live boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208250
<pleia2> yeah, I did my best to sync up with existing bug reports but some of them were a bit difficult to parse
<Unit193> pleia2: No more xubuntu for the day! ;)
<pleia2> Unit193: yeah, I am bad at breaks
<smartboyhw> Hey Xubuntu people
<smartboyhw> I was going through the list of new bugs for Ubuntu
<smartboyhw> When I saw Bug 1208243
<ubottu> bug 1208243 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "usb-creator-gtk not included in Xubuntu 13.10 daily iso" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208243
<smartboyhw> So, please act on this bug:)
<elfy> does it need to be in?
<lderan> its not in 13.04 either
<elfy> I see no need to have it by default
<elfy> better to have unetbootin 
<elfy> that works
<GridCube> http://www.webupd8.org/2013/08/xubuntu-1310-xmir-iso-available-for.html
<GridCube> why in the ISO tho?
<GridCube> if you can boot into the iso... you dont need it...
<elfy> exactly
<elfy> bug should be marked wishlist imo
<lderan> agreed
<ganglere1> Is there a windows version of test drive? I'd like to run a test case while at work.
<ganglere1> Guess I could just download the iso manually...
<smartboyhw> ganglere1, Windows version?
<smartboyhw> Hmm...
<smartboyhw> Good idea.....
<davmor2> ganglere1: No as I understand it, it was primarily designed to run under kvm which isn't support on windows.  It maybe that now it supports more backends they could create a version but I doubt it is high on their goals
<ganglere1> davmor2: I use it with virtualbox at home, which I also have installed at work, but I felt silly as soon as I realized I could just download the iso myself.
<davmor2> ganglere1: yeah as I say initially it only supported kvm iirc, then vbox support was added as it was the backend that most people were using to test on because of the 3d support. So it might be that it could have a windows client built I just doubt it.
<mati75> hello
<ganglere1> mati75: hi
<mati75> I'll testing xubuntu with xmir
<GridCube> mati75: great! please write all your impressions on a pastebin and paste it here later when you are about to leave the test :)
<GridCube> the pastebin link i mean 
<mati75> GridCube: ok, no problem
<mati75> that look start and end test xubuntu xmir: http://pl.mati75.eu:8080/IMG00190-20130805-1741.jpg
<elfy> mati75: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1208250
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208250 in Mir "Complete graphic corruption on live boot" [Critical,New]
<ganglere> elfy: making a bootable usb via usb-creator-gtk is part of the live session test case. shouldn't it therefore be included as part of the iso?
<elfy> then the testcase should be changed - testcases should be agnostic, unless a testcase is for something specific like unity or all of our xfce things
<elfy> therefore the testcase should change to read so that one flavour doesn't have to add a package just to make that right
<elfy> ganglere: what if the testcase made reference to unity - does that mean that all flavours should have unity installed? 
<skellat> Options: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1208243/comments/5
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208243 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "usb-creator-gtk not included in Xubuntu 13.10 daily iso" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<elfy> skellat: basically it's tied up with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1198466
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1198466 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Live Session Testcase calls for Startup Disk Creator" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ganglere> I was not aware of 1198466. It seems this is out of my hands now. Is there anything further I should do?
<elfy> skellat: so really it's a moot point :)
<elfy> ganglere: not really - as far as I am concerned if you have run the livecd testcase without the persistence test and you had no issues you can pass it
<ganglere> elfy: ok, I will revise my report
<elfy> marked it invalid 
<knome> skellat, it might be correct that we do ship mir now.
<Unit193> knome: Howdy.
<knome> hey Unit193 
<skellat> knome: I just logged back into my ZNC.  It feels like you started in the middle.
<knome> probably.
<skellat> Oh.  You were likely responding to the discussion between myself and Unit193 last night, I bet.
<knome> mhm
<knome> well your ping
<skellat> Which one?
<skellat> There are so many...
<knome> mir in xubuntu, bug 1208250
<ubottu> bug 1208250 in Mir "Complete graphic corruption on live boot" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208250
<skellat> knome: Ah.  That got resolved over on #ubuntu-mir as the developer who did the triaging wasn't looped in on the e-mail lyz sent.  Nothing on cdimages.u.c has Mir yet.  Only our test image on Unit193's server does.  Once Unit193 got that straightened out things became okay.
<knome> oki
<skellat> So many Mir developers, it is hard to keep track of 'em all
<skellat> knome: I did read the write-up in response this morning.  It is good to see we hit a duplicate of a bug in one case.  It isn't so good to see that the corrupted screens we hit are a known problem.
<ochosi> so what's the general opinion on mir so far?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, If i could test it somehow, i would be so happy...
<Unit193> ochosi: -1
 * Noskcaj just remembered he has a VIA ITX  pc under his bed, now has planned the next two weeks
<skellat> I don't wish failure on anyone.  I truly do want them to succeed in whatever they set out to do.  I just don't know if the timeframe they plotted out at the beginning has so far proven realistic.
<ochosi> Unit193: simply too many issues or other concerns?
<knome> skellat, can agree with that
<lderan> skellat, yup :(
<ochosi> i'm having similar thoughts wrt the ubuntu edge kickstarter
<Unit193> ochosi: Yes, and it's just too soon.
<gian1> given the expected bugs and reduced performance, what would make you adopt xmir instead of sticking with xorg?
<ochosi> gian1: hard to say, but e.g. more testing before an inevitable later switch
<gian1> i'm still not sure why you're even testing xmir
<skellat> gian1: They've got 17 days to land more code before we make that final call
<skellat> gian1: With luck we can provide feedback along the way and hopefully contribute towards success
<gian1> you have no qualms with the route canonical has been taking?
<gian1> (inot criti
<gian1> err
<gian1> (i'm not trying to criticize or troll)
<knome> gian1, xubuntu is still an OS heavily depending on the ubuntu core
<gian1> right, i'm aware of that
<knome> nobody says this is the optimal way of doing this (i'm probably the last one saying that), but that doesn't mean xmir can't be a good thing eventually
<knome> or other things they've done
<gian1> hm, i don't see how xmir can ever be a good thing for the user
<gian1> it's simply not needed
<skellat> gian1: Change is coming to the display server realm with quite a few contenders.  We've wound up in the unique position that upstream Xfce hasn't expressed plans in any direction so we have the opportunity to test, evaluate, and consider options in a relatively calm fashion.
<gian1> are you evaluating things like license choice (gpl3 vs mit) and performance?
<skellat> Replication is the first step
<gian1> personally, i'm a linux user but i include the *BSDs in the eco system
<skellat> The YouTube demonstration videos from earlier this year showing XMir and other window managers playing nice is what we're trying to replicate
<drc> yeah, like the correct license outweighs a working display.
<skellat> Once we can replicate XMir and the window manager playing nice we can worry then worry about license choice
<gian1> imo, Mir has the wrong license, and i'm not even talking about the CLA which implicitly prevents pretty much every other commercial entity from contributing
<knome> gian1, anybody is free to select their desktop and OS of choice - if you think the technology or license in mir is something you can't tolerate, you should consider other options, like debian xfce (and no, this is not a go-away motion)
<knome> gian1, the license is something we can hardly affect
<gian1> yes of course, i've just been observing the discussion in here and it has struck me as being somewhat narrow
<gian1> alright, i've said what i wanted to say, i'll shut up now :)
<skellat> If we can't successfully get XMir to work more than 50% of the time on test machines, licensing and other discussions become moot
<Unit193> How do you mean?  I know some of us are less likely to say what's really on our minds in a logged channel too. ;)
<OvenWerks> 50%... 90% even is pretty much a fail.
<knome> also, i'd imagine people who contribute to ubuntu (including xubuntu contributors) are more or less fine with the ubuntu core, including the fact that canonical as a corporation is controlling parts of the ecosystem, including licenses and stuff
<knome> and i believe they are englightened and wise enough to judge to stop contributing if they start disagreeing more than agreeing
<knome> after all, i think xubuntu is "just another" distro with xfce
<gian1> knome: i'm not so sure, this Mir silliness seems to be a water shed. lots of people seem unwilling to tag along this time
<knome> but still, of course, i do believe in it's uniqueness and in a way, it's superiority, because it's the OS i'm contributing to
<knome> gian1, we've seen the vocal minority pop up many times in the past as well
<ochosi> (e.g. with unity)
<gian1> yep, and maybe i'm that vocal minority this time, i can't say
<knome> gian1, and as a reminder (to us all), we're just seeing what xmir can give to us, and if it's a viable option for xubuntu
<knome> seriously, it will need to perform pretty well to get included in xubuntu
<gian1> ochosi: heh yeah, unity is what drove me to xubuntu
<skellat> gian1: A fair hearing and evaluation is being given.  Decisions will be made on August 22nd.
<Unit193> knome: "Pretty well" on what computers?  How many is enough for it not to take?
<gian1> skellat: ok, i hope so.
<knome> Unit193, a majority, at least
<gian1> (and yes, you can influence the license of ubuntu's display server, if you make them go wayland, which will happen sooner or later anyway)
<Unit193> gian1: I was involved in starting the Mir thing, and it's not my intention to push it into Xubuntu (actually, I'm rather hopeing people see that it's not ready yet.)
<knome> Unit193, we won't have exact statistical data from all of our users, so we are in a dark room partially anyway. we just need to do a good guess.
<Unit193> knome: Sure.
<knome> gian1, make who go wayland?
<gian1> ubuntu
<OvenWerks> ubuntu still has upstart.
<knome> gian1, and how do you see that happening?
 * drc didn't know that knome had that much influence on Canonical amd MarkS
<gian1> oh, they will have no choice, no toolkit support, software being ported to wayland
<knome> gian1, remind you, canonical is still controlling ubuntu, and since it's their business, they will take the decision
<knome> gian1, flavors like xubuntu can follow or not follow. but not affect what they decide to do.
<gian1> Mir is an island, what are they going to do, port everything to Mir themselves?
<OvenWerks> gian1: they ported everything to upstart. not systemd
<gian1> and in a still distant future when software start dropping support for X...
<OvenWerks> upstart is an island too.
<gian1> OvenWerks: i think the complexity is far worse in the Mir case
<OvenWerks> Ubuntu (vanilla) is focused on a future of a computer appliance
<OvenWerks> relatively few applications
<knome> gian1, the discussion whether ubuntu will use mir or if it's sensible for them is absurd.
<knome> gian1, all of that is a canonical business decision.
<Unit193> OvenWerks: To be fair, didn't upstart exist before systemd?
<OvenWerks> MIR makes sense in that landscape.
<OvenWerks> Unit193: I don't really know.
<gian1> knome: sure, but they are doing their damndest to include you in their business, that's why jono was in here trying to sell Mir
<Unit193> Pretty sure it is.
<OvenWerks> what matters is that no one else has used it.
<gian1> knome: you matter and you shouldn't sell yourself short
<knome> gian1, well, kind of. but we are still allowed to not use xmir.
<gian1> knome: yes, good thing is it's not too late :)
<Unit193> OvenWerks: True, but it is usable in Debian at least.
<knome> gian1, i understand. we're not just obeying what they say - that's why we're testing and seeing if it's any good now.
<OvenWerks> Unit193: can we expect to see MIR there as well?
<Unit193> OvenWerks: hah, I have no idea, I'd guess not for a while. :P
<gian1> knome: i'm saying i can't see how it could ever be better than xorg, or even what the definition of "good enough" would be, given that you already know there will be bugs and guaranteed performance hits
<gian1> pardon me for saying so, but i think you are wasting your time
<gian1> but, it's your distro, your call
<knome> gian1, if we decide to keep with x.org, it will mean we will need to use our time to maintain it in the ubuntu repositories, rather than canonical doing the maintenance for us
<OvenWerks> xorg needs a rewrite to fit modern video and input hw. wayland is not X even though it has come out of xorg
<Unit193> gian1: The one single thing I've seen good about Xubuntu using XMir, it's tear free, if you trust the guy on the mailing list.
<knome> gian1, if the performance and features are near-par, it's  real decision.
<OvenWerks> The fact that wayland exists, and where it comes from suggests X needs a replacement.
<gian1> knome: yes, the other day, i suggested liaisoning with other flavors to hash out such questions, but at least pleia2 wasn't worried about maintaining xorg
<knome> gian1, it's probably fine, but until we make a decision, i won't worry about anything that's post-decision
<gian1> Unit193: ok, that'd be something, at least :)
<OvenWerks> Unit193: has vanilla got MIR on the ISO?
<Unit193> OvenWerks: As far as I know, unity-system-compositor isn't in the repos, so I'd say "No."
<gian1> knome: hm, shouldn't you know what the options entail before you decide?
<skellat> OvenWerks: After last night kerfuffle, we can confirm no images on cdimages.ubuntu.com have Mir in them.  Only our special test image does.
<Unit193> (And I'm cheating. :D )
<OvenWerks> Well it wouldn't be a great test for me anyway... unity is so slow as to be unusable on my HW
<knome> gian1, knowing doesn't imply worrying :)
<Unit193> OvenWerks: That's the silly name of it, it's not actually unity.
<gian1> knome: fair enough :)
<Unit193> (Another marker that Mir is made for unity.)
<knome> gian1, and if xmir isn't ready, we're going to go the x route anyway, even if that included worrying about maintaining...
<Unit193> gian1: Just wondering, not sure if you've said either, but did you give it a go?
<gian1> Unit193: no, sorry, i'm not going to lift a finger to help canonical test xmir/mir
<drc>  /me wonders why everyone is wasting time arguing with this clown
<gian1> i came from windows many years ago, i'm not getting back with crazy again ;)
<OvenWerks> Unit193: if MIR makes unity actually work for me that would be a plus. But I have old stuff P4 and an Nvidia old enough that there are no longer nvidia supported drivers for it.
<OvenWerks> Gnome shell has problems too.
<Unit193> OvenWerks: I hear you, this is an older computer that Mir doesn't support either (well, the new one isn't supported either, but that's beside the point.)
<Unit193> (And Unity wouldn't stand a chacne.)
<OvenWerks> I have a new intel atom based board coming soon. I will try that.
<OvenWerks> Not the fastest thing around, but better latency that some stuff with twice the performance.
<knome> gian1, well, that's sad to hear
<knome> gian1, the more testing data we get, the more informed decision.
<gian1> well, for me, even a 100% "working" xmir still wouldn't be enough to make me consider using it
<gian1> to me, technologically and ideologically, it's a mistake
<hazxubxmir> g'day, trying out with xmir is there anyway of checking that xmir is actually the system that's working
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-06
<pleia2> hazxubxmir: if you open a terminal and run: ps ax | grep system-comp
<pleia2> if more than just the grep command returns, it's proably running
<hazxubxmir> yes I did that in the beggining
<pleia2> should have several lines of stuff show up if it's running
<hazxubxmir> oh ok run that again?
<pleia2> if you don't remember what it said, yeah :)
<Unit193> Log file will show 3 times, grep once.
<hazxubxmir> ok thanks will check brb
<pleia2> it's only looking at your process list and pulling some things out
<pleia2> not actually doing anything to your system
<hazxubxmir> ok, it appears I'm only getting 2 log files and 1 grep
<Unit193> On the Mir page, you can also see a screenshot of what you should get, if you want to add | pastebinit  and give thelink here, we can tell you for sure, but sounds as if you're using xorg.
<hazxubxmir> ok mir page is where
<hazxubxmir> don't matter I found that page
<hazxubxmir> so now how do I get xmir to work
<Unit193> Alright.  1.  You aren't running this in a VM, right?  2. What's the output of the log window?
<hazxubxmir> hold up I have to do it again
<knome> Unit193, maybe the mir page should say that in cat sized letters... :)
<hazxubxmir>  945 ?        S      0:00 /bin/sh /usr/sbin/unity-system-compositor.sleep --enable-input=false --from-dm-fd 7 --to-dm-fd 13 --vt 7
<hazxubxmir>   955 ?        Sl     1:09 /usr/sbin/unity-system-compositor --enable-input=false --from-dm-fd 7 --to-dm-fd 13 --vt 7
<hazxubxmir> 23467 pts/0    S+     0:00 grep --color=auto system-comp
<Unit193> I put it in bold.
<Unit193> hazxubxmir: You're running XMir.
<hazxubxmir> oh goodie, thank mate, only reason I wanted to check, that any comments I do make wanted to be sure that is was xmir working
<hazxubxmir> 1 more question does that command have to entered each time when booting in
<Unit193> hazxubxmir: Not at all, all it's doing is looking at the list of running applications, a task manager.
<hazxubxmir> ok mate, many thanks for your help
<Unit193> Sure, have a good one.
<hazxubxmir> alwasy and u too
<hazxubxmir> oops always
<slooksterpsv> sorry I haven't been on much my system keeps just shutting off, not sure if its a heat issue or kernel panic
<Unit193> Well that's not good.
<Unit193> Do they not get what's written on the can?
<skellat> Unit193: Hunh?
<xubuntu-mir647> hi all... connected just to say: xmir + xubuntu is amazing!!!
<xubuntu-mir647> if I install xubuntu + xmir, can I update my system without losing xmir?
<holstein> !13.10
<ubottu> Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy Salamander) will be the 19th release of Ubuntu. Announcement: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1252 - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1
<holstein> xubuntu-mir647: is that what you are talking about? from 13.10?
<xubuntu-mir647> yes... posting from xubuntu iso live cd + xmir
<xubuntu-mir647> I loved xmir...
<OvenWerks> I think xmir packaging uses replaces xorg
<xubuntu-mir647> want to keep it on my pc
<OvenWerks> so upgrade should work.
<xubuntu-mir647> nice... thanks!
<xubuntu-mir647> will try to install now.
<xubuntu-mir647> tks
<OvenWerks> didn't wait around long enough for the "this is alpha sw" disclaimer ;)
<Unit193> Wonder why he thought it was amazing.
<OvenWerks> maybe he tried it with unity first
<hazxubxmir> don't know if anyone else has noticed but scrolling and typing is at times very slow, 
<Unit193> Yep, known bug.
<cub> Good morning (at least it's morning here), I've been trying to run the Xmir tests on http://vanir.unit193.tk/mir/
<cub> It seems I'm not allowed to log on to the etherpad. When sharing through the mailing list, are the screenshots really everything you need? No HW specs or anything?
<Noskcaj> cub, hardware helps, but most of the current bugs are hardware independent
<Pwnna> are there discussions about acutally doing mir as default?
<Pwnna> imo we shouldn't include xmir until at least 14.04
<Pwnna> uh. i mean 14.10
<Noskcaj> Pwnna, yep, the final meeting on it is at the end of the month
<Pwnna> Noskcaj: can anyone give feedback/opinions?
<cub> Is it worth the effort to set up the ether pad?
<Noskcaj> Pwnna, everyone can
<Pwnna> use mozilla's etherpad
<Pwnna> Noskcaj: where?
<Noskcaj> Pwnna, mailing list and here.
<Pwnna> okay.
<Noskcaj> i have to go, bye
<Pwnna> i don't see a dedicated discussion thread
<Pwnna> so i wasn't sure
<cub> Pwnna, I meant the Etherpad as instructed on the Xubuntu Xmir page.
<Pwnna> where's that page?
<cub> http://vanir.unit193.tk/mir/
<cub> "If you would like to share your results with the team, please do so at Xubuntu etherpad, or on the mailing list."
<cub> But the Etherpad requires authorization
<Pwnna> oh. i see
<Pwnna> ....
<Pwnna> why oh why.
<Pwnna> don't we have a wiki
<cub> and I figured if I was going to run several tests it might be easier to set it up.
<Pwnna> setup an etherpad instance?
<knome> Pwnna, if you need access to the etherpad, you can get that by having a launchpad account
<knome> cub, ^
<knome> Pwnna, cub: then just join the ubuntu-etherpad team (and once you're approved to that team, you can access the ubuntu pad)
<Pwnna> there are no public etherpads?
<knome> Pwnna, sure there are.
<cub> knome, thanks for the pointers. I have updated my tests in etherpad.
<knome> cub, np, thank you
<PsynoKhi0> howdy, is the XMir test ISO's performance expected to be painfully slow at this stage?
<tr33m4n> anyone else unable to log into the Xubuntu etherpad?
<pleia2> tr33m4n: you need to be in the etherpad group, let me know your launchpad name and I can ad dyou
<tr33m4n> ah, think it's tr33m4n
<drc> nope, fine for me
<pleia2> tr33m4n@googlemail.com ?
<tr33m4n> yes
<pleia2> tr33m4n: ok, added you
<tr33m4n> thanks :)
<pleia2> should be able to log in now
<tr33m4n> yep all fine, thanks
<Unit193> http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1308067-SO-XUBUNTUXM33
<pleia2> nice
<lderan> so on the tests it does beat normal xubuntu it is a very small win mmm
<Unit193> I think you read it backwards.
<lderan> well it only beats normal xubuntu on 2 tests i think
<lderan> 4*
<Unit193> Xmir is generally slower, though.
<lderan> yup
<Unit193> Tearing seems to win, but you can fix that in xorg.conf
<lderan> 2 of those 4 it only beats normal xubuntu by 0.003%
<drc> yeah, but it's a dry 0.003%.
<Unit193> Best guess on the number of total downloads, 1769.
<pleia2> wow :)
<Unit193> And my guess was going for ~50...
<Unit193> Someone said I should make a LindsayLohanOS, but I don't want to! :(
<drc> The DEA would probably shut you down.
<pleia2> people love telling me what I should do with my time
<Unit193> drc: Aha!
<drc> OK,lets say 1700 DL's...how many reported tests so far?
<Unit193> Mhmm... Yeah, not that many.
<drc> pleia2: it's for you own good, you know :)
<lderan> pleia2, has to be done :P
<drc> Unit193: I wonder if  there would have been more test results if one didn't have to have an account to report said results??
<Unit193> I'd assume so, maybe a little more spam, but who knows.  I would have been good using mozpad or piratepad.  I just don't dislike Ubuntu etherpad like I do the pastebin. :P
<lderan> :P
<pleia2> skellat: nice email to the list
<skellat> pleia2: Thanks
<lucas> hi all... I need some help...
<lucas> I installed xubuntu + mir last night...
<lucas> while on live cd, all worked fine...
<lucas> but after the installation, I'm having issues with "colored" blocks on the screen...
<lucas> and I dont know where to start the debugging...
<lucas> does someone esperienced something like that?
<pleia2> lucas: at this point it's best to just file bug reports
<pleia2> it's under heavy active development so we haven't really been doing much debugging, mostly they are just bugs :)
<lucas> tks for the answer...
<pleia2> lucas: you can also try #ubuntu-mir
<pleia2> that's where the mir devs hang out, and I'm sure they can always use interested debuggers
<lucas> I will try looking the syslog, and ati driver...
<pleia2> (though it is a bit late in the day for them)
<lucas> I think my issue is driver related...
<lucas> thanks anyway.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-07
<knome> see you all later (will be around for a while tomorrow, then back on sat for a while, and eventually on mon for good for now)
<knome> ->
<ochosi> all the mir testing has quite some momentum it seems
<ochosi> we were even featured on phoronix for that
<elfy> ochosi: I'm just really confused as to how I've seeded somewhere in the region of about 70 copies and we've had about 20 people report lol 
<ochosi> that's actually quite an ok return rate
<ochosi> e.g. when sending out questionnaires
<elfy> well - that assumes that I'm the only one seeding :)
<ochosi> yeah, but generally speaking a 10% return rate is still fine
<pleia2> yep
<Noskcaj> I've just packaged xfce4-settings 4.11.0, but i doubt debian will take it in time for saucy. do we want to MOTU it?
<Noskcaj> micahg, i think you're the one to answer. ^
<ochosi> Noskcaj: nice! that'd be the new display dialog then
<Noskcaj> I'm just about to lintian clean it then i'll see if it will work in xubuntu.
 * Noskcaj hates SVN and git. 
<ochosi> haven't used svn, but i have to say i like git
<Noskcaj> debian version is on mentors, i'll start making an ubuntu version
<lderan> cool
<Noskcaj> There, it's all ready. what files should i upload where?
<knome> just posted http://open.knome.fi/2013/08/07/dont-panic-the-state-of-xubuntu-and-mir/
<ochosi> nice post
<knome> ta
<knome> and thanks to pleia2 and skellat giving feedback yesterday on a short notice
<knome> and don't get surprised if your comment doesn't get through. i've enabled moderation for all comments for now
<knome> (mostly because i'm going to be away from the computer until fri/sat)
<knome> bluesabre, community-approved MP 177959
<knome> ochosi, sorry for not getting to work on the various icons and other stuff i've promised to do
<knome> ochosi, once i get back home, i will force myself to do that :)
<ochosi> knome: sure, no worries. i know it's summer and *hot*
<ochosi> (approaching 40Â° in austria today, new heat record since the weather is being measured/recorded)
<knome> ugh!
<knome> ok, i'm off until fri/sat
<knome> have fun!
<ochosi> you too!
<ochosi> seeya
<smartboyhw> ochosi, how did you manage to compile the Xubuntu with XMir ISO actually? Or is it bluesabre?
<ochosi> smartboyhw: i wasn't involved in creating the iso, better ask Unit193 
<smartboyhw> ochosi, OK
<smartboyhw> Unit193, ^
<cub> (j #xfce
<ochosi> :)
<theghost> Hi, I have a problem with Xubuntu 13.04 and 13.10. I use lightdm with autologin and want my gnome-keyring unlocked but it does not work. Gnome compab is activated. It's working perfectly if I logout and re-login but not with autologin. Where's the trick ?
<ochosi> theghost: this is the development channel, for support you can check #xubuntu
<theghost> @ochosi ok
<meetingology> theghost: Error: "ochosi" is not a valid command.
<pleia2> http://www.mylinuxrig.com/post/57612670230/my-return-to-xubuntu-a-review
<pleia2> knome: posted to g+ & fb
<mhall119> pleia2: are you guys actually getting haters just for evaluating XMir?
<pleia2> mhall119: yes
<mhall119> wow :(
<mhall119> let me know if there's anything I can do from the community team's side
<mhall119> also let me know if you need me to annoy somebody in Canonical for you, regarding Mir itself
<pleia2> the public comments have been the most tame, long emails of FUD that when pressed say "well of course I didn't try it"
<pleia2> privately to me, less tame
<mhall119> :(
<pleia2> jono got us hooked up with some Mir devs, they're being awesome about prioritizing our bugs :)
<mhall119> well then let me state publicly that you guys are awesome, always have been, and I'm sure you will do what is right for Xubuntu
<pleia2> thanks mhall119!
<mhall119> where are bugs being filed?
<mhall119> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir ?
<elfy> mhall119: that's where I filed mine 
<elfy> and I'm pretty sure the others have been there as well
<pleia2> yeah, then we follow up with devs when we collect some critical ones, ie https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-August/009219.html
<mhall119> are you guys using a specific tag for bugs found in Xubuntu?
<pleia2> I don't think so
<elfy> mhall119: I didn't, but then again we're not completely sure they are JUST xubuntu - opnly that we know we found them
<mhall119> it might help, that way you could easily get a list of bugs that are known to affect Xubuntu and what their status is
<mhall119> it could help you come decision time, you can see what's fixed and what isn't, but also how well we've been doing with fixing them
<elfy> mhall119: I agree with the first part
<elfy> the second is kind of not :)
<elfy> at least not in relation to 13.10 
<skellat> pleia2: What are the purveyors of FUD expecting?  Some inter-dimensional rift will open up and spew out Lovecraftian creatures if they try XMir?  :-)  Change is difficult even with the slow, pragmatic approach we're taking.  There is an unavoidable friction gradient but to go to such venomous levels is not cool.
<elfy> people tend not to be if they aren't there with you 
<pleia2> skellat: I don't think logic plays into it here, just fear :)
<mhall119> skellat: we're actively working on fixing the Cthuhlu leak
<skellat> mhall119: +!
<skellat> mhall119: +1
<pleia2> it also doesn't make sense that we would seek to releaes an OS that doesn't work for most people (or that after years of trusting us, all of a sudden we're stupid sellouts who will ruin the OS)
<skellat> pleia2: Quite a number of changes have come very fast for people to digest in 2013.  People may still be caught up in the backwash from that even though Xubuntu wasn't really affected.
<skellat> i.e. The virtual UDS shift, the rolling release debate, the Mir launch, the drive to get the phone out, etc.
<pleia2> yeah, that was all handled poorly, I'm still not thrilled about it, but it's time to move on
<mhall119> +1
<skellat> pleia2: I know that, you know that.  Moving on is a very difficult thing for far too many people, though.  That's what we're dealing with still.
<pleia2> skellat: *nod*
<skellat> mhall119: That's an area where the community team can help, to an extent.  People holding onto adverse moments and not letting go helped deplete the ranks of Ubuntu Ohio quite a bit.  Helping people move forward while recognizing that there is some ill/bad will floating around that needs resolution is gonna be needed one of these days.
<skellat> We've seen it pile up in other areas beside my local bailiwick and the XMir case.  
<mhall119> skellat: I agree, unfortunately I'm not sure how to get people to let go and move on
<mhall119> oddly enough, telling them to let go and move on doesn't usually work :)
<elfy> not sure there is a way to be honest
<skellat> mhall119: Locally knocking heads works wonderfully with the politicians
<skellat> :-)
 * elfy has more than enough experience of those people
<mhall119> we've been actively pushing changes internally so that we don't make the same mistakes again, and hope that over time we can re-build the lost trust and good will
<elfy> not sure there's much the cc can do about it either
<skellat> mhall119: Internal change is good but it has to be expressed outwardly
<skellat> Sometimes Mr. Shuttleworth is the worst possible person to express such, though
<elfy> mhall119: time heals most things eventually for most people - you'll never gain back some, but ... 
<mhall119> skellat: not much I can do there :)
<skellat> I know
<skellat> A few good centering statements setting the scene as to where the project stands, where things are going, and the like can do wonders to help at least letting people know where things stand.  Doing that before vUDS-1308 can be useful.
<skellat> But alas, we're far afield from XMir now
 * skellat really has to stop doing back room lobbying of politicians
<elfy> no reason to stop - just do it in -offtopic ;)
<skellat> elfy: No, I've been doing it in real life/meat space
<mhall119> or #ubuntu-community-team, where it's ontopic
<skellat> mhall119 is definitely not a politician
<elfy> not seen anythign about the next vuds anywhere
<ochosi> wait, "meat space"? you mean a butchery?
<skellat> :-D
<ochosi> the phrase "those bloody politicians" gains a new perspective...
<ochosi> slowly but surely i'm really really looking forward to the day we'll use gtk3
<ochosi> hidpi support and all that jazz...
<mhall119> skellat: no, I'm too practical and introverted to be a politician
<mhall119> elfy: next vUDS is later this month
<mhall119> http://uds.ubuntu.com/
<mhall119> if you want new BP's for it you can start filing them now
<mhall119> though I expect most will just follow-up on last vUDS's BP getting ready for 13.10
<elfy> yea
<Unit193> pleia2: Dang, sorry about that mail, bummer you got it. :/
<xubuntu-mir353> hi everyone
<Unit193> Howdy.
<xubuntu-mir353> can i post here unity system compositor log
<xubuntu-mir353> xmir doesn-t start
<Unit193> Try in http://paste.openstack.org and post the link here, please.
<xubuntu-mir353> where can i find similar common problem about xubuntu&xmir
<Unit193> Well...
<Noskcaj> Does anyone want the ubuntu version od xfce4-settings 4.11 ? I've finished packaging it.
<ochosi> Noskcaj: you couldput it in a PPA, but in general it would be nice if we got it in saucy imo
<lderan> i can give it a try in a bit :)
<Noskcaj> I'll do that now
<ochosi> Noskcaj: also, i talked to bluesabre abiut packaging some dev-packages for xfce to make building easier of some components
<Noskcaj> cool
<ochosi> so if you wanna do more packaging, that'd also be useful
<ochosi> or more daily archives for xfce stuff
<Noskcaj> As long as i don't have to use SVN or git, i'll keep packaging
<lderan> :P
<ochosi> well xfce is all in git
<lderan> i've only packaged 1 thing so far lol
<ochosi> but what would you prefer? bzr?
<lderan> if you need a hand with git I could attempt to help :)
<Noskcaj> I'm not a fan of version control in general, and have bad experiences with both of the above
<Noskcaj> mostly SVN
<ochosi> well pretty much all software development happens with some version control software
<ochosi> anything else is crazy imo
<ochosi> but what's the problem? in the end you use a release tarball anyway, so no need to interact with git or anything
<Noskcaj> Mostly that SVM won't let me commit xfce changes, or use the per-user URL
<ochosi>  but svn hasnt been used for xfce for years now..?
<Noskcaj> sorry, SVN for xfce-debian
<Noskcaj> I've not done anything upstream because i don't know any C and that bug tracker is the least informative thing i have ever seen
<Noskcaj>  /rant
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> bugzilla takes some getting used to
<ochosi> but then it's ok
<ochosi> gotta go sleep now, ttyl and kudos for the packaging!
<lderan> good night ochosi 
<Noskcaj> g'night ochosi 
<Noskcaj> There, the new settings release is now on my ppa. ppa:noskcaj/packaging
<lderan> awesome :D
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mir-team/mir/trunk/changes/918?start_revid=938 from 899-current (938), see anything interesting?
<Unit193> I don't see anything worth a re-build.
<bluesabre> knome: thanks!
<bluesabre> so, now what?
<Unit193> Cookies.
<bluesabre> Yes.
<bluesabre> Actually, already had 3 cookies today :)
<micahg> Noskcaj: we don't want 4.11.x releases in Ubuntu yet, need to have a firm 4.12 release schedule before we'd take those
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-08
<Noskcaj> micahg: Ok
<ochosi> :'(
<Noskcaj> I've got a PPA, and cjwatson is working on fixed a launchpad bug that stopped i386. I'll ask for a call for testing when mir get's finished
<ochosi> yeah, i mean we've had 4.11 settings in the 4.12 devel ppa for a while
<ochosi> i was more hoping that since the 4.12 release doesn't have a clear date and the 4.11 settings are stable by themselves (we tested the new display dialog quite a bit) that we could make an exception and allow a devel version in xubuntu
<Noskcaj> ochosi, +1 for that. I forgot that there was a 4.12 PPA
<Noskcaj> Can someone please try and explain http://paste.ubuntu.com/5961965/
<lderan> library linking madness
<Noskcaj> never mind, i'd named my directory wrong
<lderan> ah okay
<bluesabre> knome: Do I need to have somebody else approve https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/lightdm-gtk-greeter-updates/+merge/177959
<bluesabre> ?
<ochosi> bluesabre: knome is away until fri or sat, but i think you mainly need someone with merge-rights to do the merge (either mr_pouit or micahg i assume)
<OvenWerks> etherpad don't like me... anyway, I get Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<OvenWerks> P4 with older nvidia graphics (TNT2)
<Unit193> Just a quick note that 0.0.8r945 is up and contains a few fixes.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/mir/0.0.8+13.10.20130808.1-0ubuntu1#mir_0.0.8+13.10.20130808.1-0ubuntu1 will list at least the interesting ones, like VTs.
<elfy> Unit193: 64bit is still slow
<Unit193> Uploading?  Could be, more so if seeding to the same Poland guy.  If it's download, I'm wondering if whatever client you use switched off the main tracker?  I'll rotate mine to all trackers in a sec.
<elfy> oh both are just seeding now :)
<Unit193> OK, I should be on all the trackers now.
<elfy> 64bit more like I expected it to be now 
<Unit193> Heh, if I had half a social mind, I'd make a note on G+ and/or Facebook, but since I don't login to facebook, and hide from G+...  (Been thinking I should  setup a "Unit193" on G+ so I can "troll better" :P )
<elfy> we could tag troll :p
<Unit193> I could paste the magnet links for jackson, but he's not here and they're rather long.
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> cub: Howdy, quick followup, was the 64bit issue you had related to a "/lib/udev/hwdb.bin" by chance?
<cub> You mean for the xmir iso test?
<Unit193> Yes sir.
<cub> I don't know. Could I check that somehow? I never got the USB to boot at all
<cub> but it read alright when plugged in when I had my usual OS running
<Unit193> OK, no bid deal, that's the only other non-xmir related 64bit issue I heard of.
<Unit193> Thank you, and thanks for testing.
<cub> np I will try when there is a new version out
<cub> will also try Ubuntu Studio when I get the time
<Unit193> 0.0.8r945 is up today, but not a ton of changes.
<cub> yeah I saw, but you wouldn't make a new iso right?
<Unit193> I did.
<cub> aha
<Unit193> I have scripts that make it easy, for any Ubuntu flavor. :P
<cub> I'll make a another shot at 64bit again then
<Unit193> Cool, good luck.
<drc> Unit193: I just started torrenting the 32 bit...you need someone to try the 64 bit...I could do that instead?
<Unit193> drc: Generally more "outside of people I get feedback from" try the 64bit, but as the 64bit here just craps out...  Do which ever you like better, but could be handy with 64.
<drc> ok, 64 bit it is
<Unit193> magnet:?xt=urn:btih:eb34f5ca03263465c6aa803883a9be4500233326&tr=http://unit193.tk:2710/announce|udp://tracker.openbittorrent.com:80/announce|udp://tracker.publicbt.com:80/announce|udp://open.demonii.com:1337/announce
<elfy> I didn't see jackson join the channel? 
<Unit193> Hah. :D
<Guest70545> Unit193, drc here....64 bi xmir latest iso.
<Unit193> Any changes for the better?
<Guest70545> graphics still look good for me, but thetyping lag is proncoued.
<Guest70545> can't to audio/video (codecs) :(
<Unit193> Thought parole picked them up and offered to install?
<Guest70545> It did...then it crashed :(
<Unit193> VLC. :P
<Guest70545> To be fair, even the non-mir isos do that to me (iirc)
<Guest70545> that was next
 * Guest70545 uses vlc anyway...parole lack s<one> feature I like
<Guest70545> huh...vlc works, but does not add itself to the app menu.
<Unit193> Can no longer ctrl+alt+del when mir craps out, but can swtich to a real tty and reboot.
<Guest70545> pithos works, but again doe not add itself to the app menu
<Guest70545> Changing themes appears to work, as does changing fonts/size/dpi
<Guest70545> this typing lag is a pain
<Guest70545> Unit193, anything else you want me to check out?
<Unit193> When you power down, see if you see everything you typed, did you the first time?
<Guest70545> dunno, lets try :)
<drc> Unit193: nope, no text, just the blue xubuntu screen with the oroborus-wannabe :)
<Unit193> Good!
<drc> but I did see something that bothers me (boot back here).  The sensor plugin showed a high temp, much higher than normal for this machine.  I'm going to reboot to xmir, add the sensor stuff and see what happens.
<drc> This laptop suffers from hi-temps when <not> using the nvidia drivers.
<Unit193> Noskcaj: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:eb34f5ca03263465c6aa803883a9be4500233326&tr=http://unit193.tk:2710/announce|udp://tracker.openbittorrent.com:80/announce|udp://tracker.publicbt.com:80/announce|udp://open.demonii.com:1337/announce There you go!  Because it's sooo much longer. :P
<Unit193> And this'll be not nvidia drivers. :/
<drc> yup
<drc> going now...bbl.
<Noskcaj> I've just found why gthumb 3.2.3 won't work on xubuntu. It needs automake-1.14
<Noskcaj> Unit193, what's that?
<Unit193> magnet link.
<Noskcaj> for?
<Noskcaj> oh, xmir
<xubuntu_> huh...inxi is now installd by default?  cool.
<Unit193> xubuntu_: Nope. :D
<Unit193> I added that, mir, and the log that pops up.
<xubuntu_> really, I DL'd it from the website, tried to install it the SC said a newer version was already installed
<Unit193> Yep, I addded it.
<Unit193> (It's in the saucy repos.)
<xubuntu_> Sorry...drc here trying xmir...forget to say :(
<xubuntu_> and ye, the latop run about 10C (cpu) and 15C (gpu)hotter than normal :(
<xubuntu_> guess that means no x/mir for me until they get nvidia drivers (if ever)
 * drc is now sad :(
<Unit193> I thought you wanted to hate it. ;)
<drc> I did...then I decided I just <something> to work (cause I really like xubuntu)
<Unit193> pgrep -f bin/unity-system-compositor >/dev/null && echo "XMir is running" || echo "XMir is not running"
<drc> so, no I have wait and see what canonical can come up with...but really, I 'mnot optimistic, based on recent history.
<drc> huh...typing lag seems to have followed me :)
<Unit193> Already works loads better than I thought it would, but still not ready.
<drc> nope
<drc> but seeing as how canonical has already commited, they're stuck :(
<drc> at least you guys hedged your bet :)
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/ZvIpTVLrxXsj1lIP64tF  I suppose I shouldn't drop that in. :P
<drc> I assume you're talking about the (colored) TEXT at the bottom :)
<drc> why not?
<Unit193> It's a .conkyrc file, if xmir is running desktop text is green, red if not. :D
<Unit193> Because it's silly.
<drc> So, knome will appoint you Minister of Silly Walks.
<drc> s/Walks/Code/
<Unit193> :D
<Guest27938> drc here
<Guest27938> Decided to look at somthing (related to the nvidia drivers).
<Guest27938> the x/mir Software& Updates will let me install the nividia drivers, and tell me I'm using them, but the nvidia Settings  say I'm Not :)
 * Guest27938 can't type to begin with and this lag doesn't help
<elfy> I tried updating/grading the one I installed the other day - get the greeter screen looping 
 * drc thinks Canonical would have to sell it's corporate soul to the devil (hmmmm...) to have x/mir ready by the 22nd.
<ochosi> "corporate soul"? isn't that a bit of an oxymoron?
<ochosi> (or are you part of those who think that corporations are people? :D)
<ochosi> drc ^
<Unit193> I'm still not convinced knome is a person.
<elfy> I'm not convinced anyone is 
<drc> ochosi: Doesn't matter what I think. The US Supreme Court says they are :)
<Unit193> Can't kill 'em.
<drc> sure you can...where's Rambler?
 * drc can't remeber the name of the corp that made it, but it's dead as a doornair.
<drc> er doornail.
<drc> ochosi: actually, it does matter what I think, but I accept the Supreme Court's rulings as binding...anything else leads to anarchy.
<drc> but that's OT :)
<Unit193> knome, pleia2: Will you please put the next meeting on the Xubuntu team calendar, for the 22nd?
<elfy> glad I'm due to not be working that day
<drc> Unit193: I've always thought of knome has having a gnome father and a kobold mother :)
 * Unit193 wonders what elfy is going to vote... :P
<Unit193> (Technically too early to decide.)
<elfy> yep
 * elfy always keeps powder dry
<jono> pleia2, knome hey, just sent a mail to xubuntu-devel re. tracking Mir bugs
<jono> might need approving
<Unit193> jono: Nope, it went.
<jono> Unit193, oh awesome
<Unit193> For anyone else having issues with the link: http://bit.ly/19eP491
<Unit193> jono: You seen the pad as of late?
<jono> Unit193, about a week ago
<skellat> Unit193: Please be very loud, so to say, if we've got enough new code to do another spin of Experimental
<jono> Unit193, hey
<jono> did you set up the XMir image?
<Unit193> Depends, if it's a request, then GridCube did it.
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> ajajaja
<jono> Unit193, so Mythbuntu are interested in doing the same, but are curious how you did it with the PPA
<jono> can I copy you into a thread to provide some guidance for them?
<Unit193> You could, but I don't respond to email much at all.
<jono> Unit193, so you recommend they ping you on IRC?
<Unit193> Fastest way to get a response at least, though I'm going to be busy here coming up on the weekend.
<jono> Unit193, I am sure just a few general pointers would really help
<jono> could you summarize how you did it here and I can paste it into an email and send it?
<jono> that might be the quickest method
<jono> I am sure they will really appreciate the guidance
<Unit193> In the most basic form, mounted; unsquashed the fs; chrooted in; mounted proc, dev, etc; added the ppa and packages without breaking stuff; configured a few things for startup; exited; umounted everything; squashed it back together; created iso and made it hybrid.  I also of course got an md5sum and zsync out of it.
<jono> thanks Unit193, will pass that on
<jono> many thanks!
<Unit193> (Might be missing a couple things, but that's the jist.)
<Unit193> jono: It's really not as hard as it seems, even easaier if you can script it (which also gives you the same result every time, and keeps it clean): http://vanir.unit193.tk/mir/pending/mythbuntu-13.10-xmir-i386.iso
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-09
<micahg> ochosi: re: 4.11 settings, if we're not taking 4.12 for the LTS, I'd rather not, if we are, I don't mind as much
<micahg> that's why a clear roadmap would help
<micahg> ochosi: but as mr_pouit is much more connected to upstream, I'll leave him to the decision and I'll be happy to push it if he agrees
<pleia2> Unit193: in case you didn't see, I gave you superpowers on the calendar too so you can update it
<pleia2> (both knome and I are traveling this weekend)
<Unit193> I got the hint, figured it'd be the same time too.  I'll be out as well.
<pleia2> :)
<Unit193> Danke.
<ochosi> why is jono the only one for whom xmir and xubuntu work flawlessly
<Unit193> I have no idea, was thinking that, and wondering if he's looking as critically.
<elfy> I'm not cynical
<Unit193> Or, all his bugs were ironed out early, and he's using one of the few 100% working computers. :P
<Noskcaj> Unit193, i read the irc logs and realised why you sent me the magnet link. I'll test in Vbox a bit, but i don't have time to get real hardware going till next week.
<Unit193> Then it's pointless to test.
<ochosi> maybe he has never used xubuntu before and thinks it's supposed to be as bad as it is with xmir?
<elfy> ochosi: lol
<Unit193> Made me laugh, that's bad...
<Unit193> Also I was right to say it was GridCube. :P
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I still think some bugs will show up in a VM. maybe even some VM only ones
<Unit193> Noskcaj: For xorg, but we're trying to test XMir with this setup, otherwise it's almost a daily.  You're free to try, but it just won't be Mir.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, even if i use the iso from you it will be normal Xorg?
 * Noskcaj assumes he looks stupid for some reason now
<Unit193> Yes, as explained in the email and online. :P
<Unit193> (The xorg, your appearance isn't explained online that I've seen.)
<Noskcaj> On another topic. what's the status on getting settings 4.11 into 13.10? I've just fixed thunar 1.6.3 so it can be debian synced too, so hopefully that can go in.
<cub> Good morning Unit193, I got the same problem with new 64bit xmir iso. I just won't boot. Weird since I've used the same procedure and equipment as I do for all other installations...
<Unit193> I'd take it people interested saw http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/msg05871.html already?  Couple interesting links within.
<ochosi> Unit193: wow, seems there are quite some roadblocks ahead...
<Unit193> http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/msg05872.html and exactly what I had thought a while ago. :P
<ochosi> hehe, yeah
<elfy> they've got until the 21st - I'll check then 
<skellat> Unit193: Multi-monitor was the ultimate blocker for mr_pouit so let us hope for some miracles in the 13 days ahead
<Unit193> But, that's not the only blocker on my list, so just that wouldn't do it.
<skellat> Oh, I know.
<skellat> Those are still some major hurdles to be cleared.
<ochosi> yup, also the lack of proprietary driver support is bugging me
<Unit193> ochosi: The lack of working properly bugs me...
<Unit193> Ouch, we're pulling in more of systemd than we did even in raring.
<Unit193> libpam-systemd, libsystemd-daemon0, libsystemd-journal0, libsystemd-login0, systemd-services, and systemd-shim.
<lderan> i see
<skellat> Unit193: Why are we pulling in that much of systemd?  What dependencies are triggering it?
<Unit193> I don't know, haven't been able to look yet.
<GridCube> Unit193, im zsyncking the iso, its diferent from the 0.8.8 mir we tested the other day. correct?
<Unit193> GridCube: A little, couple things fixed.  This isn't the main one in repos yet, that didn't have many interesting fixes.  Biggest ones you'll notice are TTYs work.
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> well 
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-10
<GridCube> pleia2, or someone, can you please aprove exio4 in the ubuntu-etherpad?
<Unit193> GridCube: Good!  Getting him to submit results. :D
<GridCube> :D
<Unit193> She's a bit AFK, mhall119 is part of the community team, does that count as admins? :P
<GridCube> dunno
<pleia2> I was at dinner with my father in law, but approved on my way out to the car ;)
<Unit193> pleia2: Enjoyed it?  And danke.
<pleia2> yep
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1199450 I read that as commited, and since it's supposed to be committed in 955/948, lag issue should be gone in the mir package as of an hour ago.  I'll spin another out on Monday, if someone agrees with me it's fixed. :P
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1199450 in Mir "[xmir] Inputs slowing, last event of a stream of events greatly delayed" [Critical,Fix committed]
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre - so lightdm greeter - you logout and top right corner - 4 icons - what's the flower one for - and assuming the flag one is for languages etc - it's not working here
<ochosi> elfy: the flag is for languages, the "flower" is a gear for the system-menu
<ochosi> bluesabre: has the latest gtk-greeter already been uploaded?
<elfy> ochosi: I assumed those to be the meanings - installeda vm to finally get the testcase written, installed spanish language and keyboard - log out - no options working to change to spanish
<elfy> that's with the latest iso
<knome> bluesabre, as ochosi said, you'll now need somebody who's going to merge it approve :)
<knome> Unit193, hah, thanks.
<knome> i do agree with ochosi that we should get some development stuff from 4.11 in
<knome> of course, we should test them enough to make sure they *will* work, but otoh, 13.10 is not an LTS, and we have until 14.04 to iron out bugs and stuff from them, if xfce 4.12 wasn't ready before that either
<knome> if it was, we'd have to test the 4.12 stuff anyway
<knome> elfy, that's a known bug!
<knome> elfy, (no options)
<knome> elfy, bug 1204486
<ubottu> bug 1204486 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "Unable to select alternate languages at login screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204486
<knome> elfy, also see my comments 3/4
<elfy> thanks
<elfy> thought you were away this weekend 
<knome> i was/am
<knome> i'll only be around for some time today
<elfy> aaah
<knome> but i thought i'd catch up with the awaylog and -devel backlog
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I'm going to be doing some package tests today - done some iso ones :)
<knome> nice
<knome> i just linked that ^ bug to the devel blueprint
<elfy> okey doke
<elfy> knome: should I remove the fix released ones from the blueprint? 
<knome> elfy, nope
<knome> elfy, see http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-flavor-xubuntu.html
<elfy> ok
<jjfrv8> elfy, it seems that several of the Xfce Settings Manager testcases are 'archived' and aren't editable
<jjfrv8> or am I missing something?
<elfy> where are you looking?
<jjfrv8> on the link you sent in the call to arms e-mail. I can paste it if I rember how
<jjfrv8> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5969743/
<elfy> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50384/testcases
<elfy> what do you mean by editable?
<elfy> you shouldn't be able to edit any of that unless you're in the team
<elfy> which you're not
<elfy> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/+members#active
<elfy> jjfrv8: what is it that you're trying to do?
<jjfrv8> I mean submitting test resultes
<jjfrv8> *results
<jjfrv8> here's a screenshot of one: http://imagebin.org/267108
<elfy> ok - that looks right
<elfy> jjfrv8: what are you clicking on there for it to tell you it's archived
<elfy> while you're about you can me too and confirm a bug for me - there's no way to report bugs against testcases in packages tracker - there should be 
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+bug/1210728
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1210728 in Ubuntu QA Website "Report a testcase bug missing from package tracker" [Undecided,New]
<jjfrv8> I'm just clicking on the tescase name link. I get a results page for all of them but the first five under Xfce Settings Manager group
<elfy> oic what you mean
<elfy> jjfrv8: no idea how to unarchive those
<jjfrv8> It's weird that slickymaster was able to submit one a couple of days ago. Must've just happened.
<elfy> yea - noted it - will ask when there's someone about to ask - thanks
<jjfrv8> I confirmed and "me too'd" that bug.
<elfy> jjfrv8: thanks
<scottbomb> Greetings all. Where is the MIR testing ISO I've been reading about? Is it the daily listed here? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/270/builds
<scottbomb> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/270/builds/51026/testcases
<elfy> scottbomb: http://vanir.unit193.tk/mir/
<elfy> those 2 you linked are normal iso's - no mir 
<scottbomb> excellent, thanks
<elfy> welcome 
<bluesabre> ochosi: the latest and greatest being 1.0?
<bluesabre> knome: thanks?
<bluesabre> Without the ? of course
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> dang it
<bluesabre> ochosi: 1.6 I mean
<bluesabre> 1.6.0
<bluesabre> I'll get it right eventually
<bluesabre> micahg, mr_pouit: do either of you care to approve and upload this?  https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/lightdm-gtk-greeter-updates/+merge/177959
<bluesabre> s/do/would
<bluesabre> today I am unable to say the things I need to say
<bluesabre> :\
<knome> bluesabre, was :P
<GridCube> pleia2, :D in a lighter request, we should choose our first desktop of the week soon
<Noskcaj> knome, What do you think we should do with xfce4-settings 4.11? It's the only xfce thing not current in debian other than lightdm
<knome> Noskcaj, i agree with what ochosi said; we should probably cherry-pick some xfce 4.11 stuff, but we need to decide about that on a meeting
<knome> i don't want xfce 4.12 as bad as i want some of the features built for it, which have been ready for ages 
<knome> it would be silly to stall everything because the xfce release schedule being what it is
<knome> but it would be silly to simply get every new component in too, because that would most probably break things
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> I've just got the datetime plugin merge working. where should i upload it?
<knome> launchpad?
<knome> i'm off to bed
<knome> night
<lderan> good night knome 
<Noskcaj> night knome 
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-11
<bluesabre> forestpiskie: I've confirmed the bug you found in indicator-sound, and found a work around.  I've added a comment to the bug as well, so maybe we can get some traction on this. https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-sound/+bug/1208204
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome, mr_pouit ^
<elfy> bluesabre: thanks, confirm that the workaround after your's works 
<knome> bluesabre, ugh
<elfy> mornign knome 
<knome> hai elfy 
<elfy> just about to do a clean install and then install xmir into it 
<knome> oki
<knome> i'm about to leave sometime sooner or later
<knome> but have fun with xmir ;)
<elfy> have a good day :)
<knome> will do
<elfy> clean install of daily + install of xorg-server-mir and unity-system-compositor and reboot 
<elfy> appears to work ok at first glance - other than a flashing login screen
<elfy> typing in a treacle mine appears to have been fixed
<elfy> tthough display refuses to let me choose a different resolution - think there is a bug for that
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1196239
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1196239 in Mir "Cannot change display resolution" [Critical,Triaged]
<Noskcaj10> Can we try and sync xfce4-indicator-plugin? Everything has been fixed in debian or upstrea,
<Noskcaj10> *upstream
<elfy> well - that experiment didn't last long
<lderan> oh dear
<elfy> some activity in irc channel - cue really slow refresh ... 
<elfy> sort of asked in -mir, wiaiting for some sort of response - not holding my breath though, it being sunday
<lderan> well atleast you can get to the desktop eh :P
<elfy> yep
<elfy> was a bit hasty installing it on this machine perhaps lol
<pleia2> I'll try to catch GridCube, but he should just get his team to select a desktop each week and let us know what it is (I really don't need to be involved aside from working with knome to find a spot on the site)
<elfy> If I see him before you I'll tell him 
<pleia2> thanks :)
<knome> pleia2, yah
<Noskcaj10> never mind, it works now. I'll test the package, then file a bug
<lderan> woo
<Noskcaj10> I've got the new indictator plugin on my PPA, but we can't sync unless ubuntu get's indicator-messages-gtk2
<micahg> Noskcaj10: we dropped that since it wasn't ported to the latest indicator API
<Noskcaj10> micahg, so i assume syncing the plugin won't happen?
<micahg> from where?
<micahg> oh, gtk2 version was never ported
<micahg> that's why
<Noskcaj10> syncing xfce4-indicator-plugin from debian
<micahg> Noskcaj10: I thought you just had that uploaded (0.6.2)
<micahg> oh, that was the datetime plugin
<micahg> Noskcaj10: indicator needs a patch forward ported
<Noskcaj10> ok, i'll look into getting debian updated then. Once it's ready, can you merge it on SVN? i still don't have access
<micahg> I don't either
<micahg> Noskcaj10: Debian is up to date, the patch hasn't been integrated upstream yet AFAIK
<Noskcaj10> ok
<skellat> Noskcaj: So, you got my e-mail then?
<Noskcaj> skellat, yep
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> Did it help?
<Noskcaj> yeah. I've realised that this can't get synced unless another package goes into the ubuntu repos
<skellat> Noskcaj: Or the Ubuntu changes get handled by the upstream too so as to reduce the friction
<Noskcaj> yeah
<skellat> That's the other strategy you can follow if a dependency got dropped from the Ubuntu archive
<skellat> Maybe
<Noskcaj> one other question. Does anyone here have debian upload rights? I have 10 packages on mentors with nothing happening
<micahg> we're not getting gtk2 back in indicator-messages upstream
<skellat> Well, that means getting the Ubuntu delta pushed upstream then
<micahg> no, it needs to be ported and we don't have the resources
<skellat> Okay
<micahg> Canonical is upstream for that
<micahg> if someone is bored and wants to do the porting, we can reintroduce
<micahg> but I think that time might be best spent elsewhere
<skellat> Agreed
<Noskcaj> What "elsewhere" do you recommend? 
<skellat> micahg: What do you see as left on the priorities list as we head into Feature Freeze?
<micahg> figure out Mir stuff, gtk-theme-config
<micahg> oh, and getting some other unity stuff out of the image
<skellat> micahg: There is that docs sponsored + SRU upload for 12.04 that nobody wants to touch with a bargepole
<micahg> I can do that as soon as I have some time (hopefully this week)
<skellat> micahg: You should have the bug logged somewhere
<skellat> Mir still boils down to watch & wait to see if any new code drops
<skellat> The known issues list is known to us and we need to watch to see if anything gets cleared off it with a further code drop (if any)
<micahg> yeah
<skellat> I don't think mr_pouit will be happy on the multi-monitor issue since Mir only supports mirroring and using multiple monitors is on Known Issues as not done yet
<skellat> Unit193 & I are both idling in -mir watching things ever so hopefully
<micahg> well, if that's not done and not scoped for 13.10, we'll wait
<Noskcaj> And if anyone wants to check xfce4-settings 4.11, it's ready for upload and in my PPA, we just need a meeting to decide if we use it or not
<skellat> micahg: They still have time but that is my feeling too
<skellat> As to gtk-theme-config...I have no clue where that stands right now
<micahg> waiting on me to upload to mentors which I hope to do tonight
<micahg> Noskcaj: I won't take -settings without mr_pouit's ACK
<skellat> Cool.  Ping Paul Tagliamonte if you have to to see if we can push things forward.  We're after DIF so we'll need to do a manual requestsync.
<micahg> skellat: yeah, I can handle that :)
<skellat> Paul is one of my predecessors as leader for Ubuntu Ohio...
<Noskcaj> micahg, what i expected, but i'm let to see mr_pouit online, ever
<skellat> Noskcaj: You can always write Lionel an e-mail
<Noskcaj> I'll wait till the end of the week, then try that
<skellat> micahg: Yeah, I do hope the Fluxbox king himself may help us navigate the queues more easily.
 * skellat wanders off to the other room to check on the BeagleBoard-xM relative to a Dropbox matter
<knome> Noskcaj, i'd send the email as soon as you can.
<Noskcaj> knome, ok, thanks
 * Noskcaj requires breakfast, will be back soon
<Noskcaj> Gthumb 3.2.3 can't be put into ubuntu until bug 1191959 is fixed
<ubottu> bug 1191959 in automake1.13 (Ubuntu) "Update to latest 1.14 automake" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1191959
<micahg> Noskcaj: it seems silly for gthumb to depend on a new automake
<Noskcaj> micahg, yes, but the .configure won't work without it, and i don't know how to make a workaround
<micahg> regenerate?
<micahg> required automake is 1.8 in tree
<micahg> hrm, 1.11
<micahg> but still fine
<Noskcaj> strange, i'll find the error i get
<Noskcaj> micahg, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5975127/
<micahg> Noskcaj: try with dh-autoreconf
<micahg> no idea why you're getting that
<Noskcaj> How do i use that with the simple rules file?
<micahg> dh --with autoreconf
<Noskcaj> micahg, it still won't build
<micahg> Noskcaj: well, if you put up a source package for me somewhere, I'll try to take a look later tonight
<Noskcaj> micahg, ok, thanks. i'll upload it now
 * micahg disappears for a bit
<Noskcaj> It's a big file because i can't run debuild clean
<micahg> Noskcaj: ok, just give me the debian dir diff than
<Noskcaj> the orig is at https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B57km_mHQf74UGwxYUdLWXUyNUU/edit?usp=sharing and the debian folder is at https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B57km_mHQf74aUR6Qmtqd2J6Vmc/edit?usp=sharing
<micahg> Noskcaj: your issues are caused by one of the patches or your environment, I commented out all the patches and I seem to get pretty far in the build
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-04
<bluesabre> ochosi, Unit193: sounds like a package
<Unit193> Hmm?
<bluesabre> about a tagged release, and medium importance
<Unit193> Ah, it wasn't tagged exactly, just had utopic rather than UNRELEASED.
<bluesabre> ah, right
<Unit193> Is Andrew still interested in helping out Xubuntu in Debian?
<xubuntu688> Can anyone in here help me ? I'm having a lightdm problem.
<ochosi> Noskcaj: what's the status of upower0.99 in xubuntu utopic? i've seen you've set session to fix released, so we're carrying that patch from bugzilla and it works?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Session doesn't use upower really.
<Noskcaj> but the actual transition will be this month
<ochosi> hm ok
<ochosi> i thought that for suspend/hibernate it used to use it
<Noskcaj> ochosi, One of our patches changed that to logind
<ochosi> ah right, we're using the logind patch
<ochosi> in that case yeah, no more upower
<ochosi> bluesabre: i presume you never received a reply from nick about a settings release?
<bluesabre> ochosi: correct
<ochosi> okay
<ochosi> planning to do the release anyway at some point or do you wanna wait?
<bluesabre> not sure what would be "right"
<brainwash> ochosi: mark bug 1306898 as invalid (works as intended) or wishlist?
<ubottu> bug 1306898 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfce4-settings-manager: session and startup: search field inactive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306898
<brainwash> looks like it's time again to do some cleanup on launchpad =S
<brainwash> or maybe mark as incomplete? damn, what to do.. what to do..
<knome> it is not incomplete at least
<brainwash> ye, only an upstream report is "missing" :P
<brainwash> I thought that cleaning up stuff might help with the bug bounty idea
<brainwash> sadly I lost track of the current progress :/
<ochosi> brainwash: that one can be closed as invalid
<ochosi> you already pointed the person upstream, but it really is fine that way
<brainwash> ochosi: alright, done
<brainwash> next one bug 1297893
<ubottu> bug 1297893 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Giant text and (some) giant icons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297893
<brainwash> xubuntu-default-settings overrides the dpi setting for the xubuntu session (96 dpi)
<brainwash> but the normal Xfce session relies on proper auto detection
<brainwash> should the Xfce session also just use 96 dpi?
<brainwash> it's an upstream thing, but I'm not sure yet if we should redirect it
<brainwash> .. or simply patch the xfce4-settings package downstream
<brainwash> next!
<brainwash> ochosi: do you feel like fixing this bug 1309466 ?
<ubottu> bug 1309466 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "power information window changing its width every few seconds" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1309466
<brainwash> maybe it's not even an issue anymore in the new release 1.3.0
<ochosi> brainwash: that xfpm bug shouldn't be an issue anymore, and we don't plan on doing a 1.2.0 maintenance release
<brainwash> ochosi: ok, can you please close this report
<brainwash> any thoughts on the dpi bug?
<brainwash> Xubuntu uses 96 dpi by default, so why not use it as default for Xfce? could it cause any trouble?
<ochosi> can't set it to wontfix as usual
<ochosi> added a comment, that should be enough
<ochosi> not sure about the dpi, gotta work now, ttyl
<brainwash> thanks, I'll file an upstream report for the dpi one :)
<brainwash> so it can be discussed somewhere else and not here :D
<bluesabre> related: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2014/07/fonts-in-current-era.html
<bluesabre> heading to work, bbl
<ochosi> wb ali1234 
<ali1234> hello
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-05
<Unit193> ochosi, bluesabre: (I guess this should go here) Due to lack of a better place for now, they are here: http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/users/unit193-guest/xfce4-soundmenu-plugin.git/ - http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/users/unit193-guest/libmpris2client.git/
<Unit193> bluesabre: Can you sync xfce4-appfinder from exp?
<ochosi> Unit193: o hey! thanks a bunch!
<Unit193> Also, in ppa:unit193/xfce.
<Unit193> Bleh, should likely have done -0ubuntu1 for them..
<ochosi> trying it now
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<ochosi> how's it going?
<elfy> ok thanks - week off :)
<ochosi> \o/
<ochosi> lucky you, so what are you doing sitting in front of the computer? :D
<elfy> images are fubar atm bug 1352252
<ubottu> bug 1352252 in parted (Ubuntu) "Exception during partitioning whilst utopic server installations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1352252
<elfy> elfy's in his counting house counting out his money, finding that the lack of it is really rather funny
<ochosi> hmm, i also had a hard time setting up my partitioning in utopic when i installed it on the weekend
<ochosi> ooohh, you have a "counting house" just for that purpose?
 * ochosi didn't know elfy was *that* rich
<elfy> oh yes - it's always empty though :p
 * elfy suspects that ochosi never heard that nursery rhyme and if he did it wasn't in english :p
<ochosi> indeed
<elfy> it's a standard English August day - cloudy and a bit chilly - so I'm doing as little as I can today 
<ochosi> Unit193: oooh, sneaky! the soundmenu didn't actually build
<ochosi> elfy: sounds like a sane goal for a day :>
<ochosi> put that s*** on a t-shirt!
<Unit193> ochosi: Dep-wait, I didn't wait long enough after firing up libmprisclient.  There's actually nothing wrong, give it a minute. :P
<ochosi> ah, i see :)
<ochosi> was just about to look at the build logs
<Unit193> Didn't see the big Missing build dependencies: libmpris2client-dev? :D
<elfy> ochosi: lol
<ochosi> Unit193: well i didn't look in the end, since you threw out that spoiler! :]
<Unit193> It's actually on the status page too.
<ochosi> elfy: fwiw, utopic should soonishly have quite finalized gtk themes
<ochosi> oh
<elfy> ochosi: nice :)
<ochosi> elfy: so from shimmer-themes 1.8.1 (or so) onwards, please let me know of any visual oddities you encounter
<elfy> ok 
<ochosi> apart from abiword, obviously that one always looks like crap
<Unit193> ...And always gets purged before seen.
<elfy> stop seeding abiword :p
<elfy> lol @ Unit193 
<ochosi> hehe, that'll be our next team vote then ;)
<ochosi> (not kidding)
<Unit193> Seeding network-manager has actually caused more problems for me (see my report on the tracker)
<Unit193> ochosi: Eh, you wanting to put LO on? :/
<ochosi> Unit193: hm which want?
<elfy> beta 1 is in a few weeks - I assume we're still going to participate in those 
<ochosi> Unit193: no, nothing, but i'll probably come up with a concept for that first
<ochosi> elfy: yup, i'd say so
<Unit193> ochosi: They're done, but not sure if you should copy them over.
<elfy> ochosi: good - we need to do some milestones :)
<ochosi> elfy: if there's anything in particular that i have to do about these things that i might not know, feel free to "remind" me
<ochosi> especially with QA and releases i wasn't really so involved in the past
<Unit193> elfy: FWIW, one of mine is on utopic now, so if I'm supposed to be looking for something..
<ochosi> knome: the same goes for you ^ (i mean, "reminding" me of the duties i might not be aware of yet)
<elfy> ochosi: not really, it's basically mark images as ready, have a release note ready, tell whoever's asking in -release where it is :)
<ochosi> mkay, that sounds like work but do-able :)
<ochosi> no idea how to mark images ready, but i'll come to you once it comes to that
<ochosi> i guess the partitioner problem doesn't only affect us
<ochosi> since it's part of ubiquity
<elfy> .nope - that's everyone I'd assume
<elfy> marking images is easy - the best thing to do is have the release notes almost done - then just fill in the major issues for us, the *buntu major issues get listed anyway
<ochosi> oh good
<ochosi> do we have any major issues so far that i might not be aware of?
<elfy> not that I'm aware of - most of the big stuff was 14.04.1 sru's I tthink
<Unit193> ochosi: Do you know if Andrew (asb) still is interested in helping Xubuntu in Debian?
<ochosi> Unit193: hm, never knew anything about that
<ochosi> elfy: cool, that's good to know
<ochosi> well i guess more issues will pop up once we hit beta1 :)
<ochosi> Unit193: and i don't think i've heard that name before
<elfy> ochosi: it's getting people to look before the end of October :p
<Unit193> If it helps, I may upgrade the netbook to utopic too.
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, i was lagging a bit behind, now i at least have a vbox set up...
<elfy> everything helps :)
<Unit193> OK, the upgrade is just going to stink. :P
<brainwash> is there even anything new in xubu utopic other than gtk appearance tweaks?
<ochosi> brainwash: new power manager?
<ochosi> there'll be a new display dialog, new release of xfwm4 etc
<Unit193> xfwm+tabwin?
<brainwash> :P
<brainwash> people are still having issues with xfpm and logind overriding lid close events
<brainwash> according to launchpad
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, that one has been released meanwhile
<ochosi> bbl
<brainwash> so that's one thing which could be tested in utopic with xfpm 1.3.0
<knome> ochosi, as if i had time to think about such ;)
<knome> ochosi, i'll know afterwards when you didn't do something...
<Unit193> knome: Know about the question about Andrew?
<knome> no?
<knome> tell me?
<elfy> sigh, wish we didn't get old installer bugs coming back - bad enough to have current ones :|
<Unit193> :/
<Unit193> So can anyone here actually subscribe ~xubuntu-bugs to packages?
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> I've done that previously
<Unit193> I don't seem to be able to here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar-dropbox-plugin/+subscriptions
<knome> Unit193, probably has to do with the LP teams review
<knome> ~xubuntu-team isn't an administrator for the bugs team any more
<knome> i guess we should make -dev an administrator for that team
<knome> ochosi, ^ ?
<knome> and set owner to xubuntu project lead
<Unit193> So for a trial, I created https://bitbucket.com/xubuntu/ so I wouldn't be storing stuff in my alioth user dir and consequently be the only one with commit access.  It's basically for packages that aren't going to Debian (right now), but if others think they have a valid use for it, works for me.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I had you as admin, but only removed once I learned it'd email you on every git repo import, and didn't want to spam.
<knome> Unit193, i guess with as social media stuff, it'd be good to have at least a few team people as admins
<Unit193> He's "developer", which has a lot of access.  I just didn't want to spam his email.  I'm fine with others having admin.
<knome> yeah, wasn't referring to the bluesavre situation ;)
<knome> bluesabre too!
<Unit193> :P
<Unit193> I'm only aware of myself, Sean, and Thomas being on there.
<bluesabre> I don't mind a ton of emails... I get that with ubuntu-release list
<Unit193> Done, you be an admin.
<bluesabre> woo!
<brainwash> sound menu plugin? a replacement for the unity sound menu?
<brainwash> any screenshots? :)
<Unit193> Looking at the blueprints I see only the panel switch and lightdm-settings applications to create, were we going to try out any other packages?
<Unit193> brainwash: https://github.com/matiasdelellis/xfce4-soundmenu-plugin/releases has a couple.
<brainwash> ah, so it's more like a sound actionbar
<bluesabre> Unit193: I think that's all.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks.  Is skippy on the list somewhere/how?
<bluesabre> Unit193: what is skippy again?
<Unit193> Same type of thing xfdash is, only perhaps better(citation needed)
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> suppose I'll need a list of things that I need to upload to ubuntu
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Going over the packaging, it'll need a little updating.
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> trying to get shimmer-themes uploaded this morning, but I'll be around for a while tonight
<Unit193> Saw my ping about appfinder?
<bluesabre> yes
<Unit193> Great.
<Unit193> Hrm, only git snapshots.  I'll ask if he plans to do a beta or release next time he's online.
<bluesabre> shimmer-themes uploaded, bbl
<Unit193> Nice.
<Unit193> ochosi: If you want the soundmenu in ~extras: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/test/+packages?field.name_filter=libmpris - https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/test/+packages?field.name_filter=xfce4
<ali1234> that's different to the sound plugin andrzejr was working on?
<Unit193> I don't believe he was working on this one.
<Unit193> I didn't know that he was working on one, much less what one.
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, that's different. it started out as an mpris2 controller for the panel, but now he added pulseaudio volume control to it
<ochosi> Unit193: thanks, copying now
<Unit193> Sure.
<ochosi> knome: do *you* wanna work on an accessibility version of greybird?
<ochosi> i'm just asking cause i guess that workitem is a candidate for postponing, don't think i'll get to that at all
<knome> ochosi, can't do any promises on whether i'll have time, but sure, it's generally a target i can help reaching
<ali1234> ochosi: btw, while i was away the past two weeks i was using xubuntu on my laptop, and i found it doesn't resume properly from suspend
<ali1234> it wakes up okay, i get the lock screen, enter password, then a black screen
<ali1234> then i have to restart lightdm
<ali1234> so looks like a light-locker problem? i'm using all vanilla 14.04 packages so maybe you already fixed this?
<knome> it ought to be fixed in .1 
<knome> so if you have all updates, you should be fine
<ali1234> looks like i'm up to date
<brainwash> but the user has to change something manually for existing accounts
<brainwash> to fully fix this problem
<brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1303736/comments/163
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1303736 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Black screen after wakeup from suspending by closing the laptop lid" [High,Fix released]
<brainwash> should unfinished stuff from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-14-04-point-1 be moved to point-2?
<brainwash> moreover, can we unlink the ibus bug report? ibus has been dropped and there is no indication that it will return in 14.04.x
<knome> brainwash, i think it's still warranted
<Unit193> So, are we going to keep a hard dep on *-gtk-theme from shimmer-themes?
<ali1234> brainwash: yes that works thanks
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> so they now want to test 12.04.4 upgrade to 12.04.5 anyone got any time :|
<elfy> not sure that using a vm for kernel and xorg enablement stack will cut it either 
<Unit193> Everything I have is 14.04+
<elfy> yep
<elfy> oh good god - there's only alternate testing available - I've not got 4 hours for an install and an upgrade for that 
<Unit193> I didn't even think we opted in for .5.
<elfy> that'll help enormously ... 
<elfy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2014-August/002969.html
<elfy> I can tell them we're not interested ;)
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2014-February/thread.html#38042 Wrong as always, I don't see a reply.
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> well that's one of those threads isn't it - not sure who ALL of them are - but a fair few are paid by canonical - easy decision in those shoes
<elfy> we can blame ochknomsi 
<Unit193> Good plan!
<elfy> I'm going offline till Friday - it's an SEP now 
<ali1234> what needs to be done?
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> Unit193: so ... "No kernel modules found" when I try to install the alternate
<Unit193> >_<
<Unit193> Pretty sure it doesn't like your hardware, then.
<Unit193> Keeps doing that. :D
<elfy> ali1234: supposedly we're partaking in the 12.04.5 upgrade thing - but I can find no information on whether we are or not ... 
<elfy> Unit193: this is just a vm 
<ali1234> assuming we are, what needs to be tested? install 12.04.4 then try to upgrade it to 12.04.5?
<elfy> ochosi knome - are we or are we not partaking in 12.04.5 upgrade 
<elfy> ali1234: yea - alternate is the only testing option though
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/320/builds
<ali1234> hmm i don't understand... how do you upgrade with an iso?
<elfy> image then
<elfy> testcase for whole drive upgrade is http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/AlternateWhole
<knome> ali1234, burn a disc (or have an USB stick) and basically use it as a software repository
<elfy> knome: do you remember if we said we'd participate ?
<elfy> cos I don't
<ali1234> knome: that can only work with the alternate iso anyway right?
<knome> don't think we've SRU'd much since .1...
<knome> ali1234, no, works with the regular ISO as well
<elfy> but the real querstion is are we doing this or not ?
<knome> do we get the HWE stack or not?
<knome> if not, then .5 === .4
<elfy> I've no idea knome 
<knome> me neither
<Unit193> I'll check.
<knome> cheers Unit193 
<Unit193> I don't think so.
<elfy> we appeared to test .4 
<knome> elfy, yeah, but we landed the docs SRU for that
<knome> right? :)
<elfy> sounds right to me
<Unit193> Uhhhh.
<knome> now we haven't landed anything
<Unit193> We have 3.13 modules with a 3.2 kernel...
<knome> huh
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/BGSKeuQgvguT2aW6uRNz
<elfy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-users/2014-February/006526.html
<Unit193> Oh duh, I see.
<knome> right
<elfy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-users/2014-February/006529.html
<Unit193> It's got modules for several, but I don't personally know why.
<knome> mhmh
<elfy> so - we're not bothered by this then
<knome> yep
<knome> in that case we don't want the .5 ISO's built for xubuntu at all
<elfy> knome: remove from list ?
<elfy> will that stop build? or just stop reporting? 
<knome> talk with somebody technical :)
<knome> there might be some reasons to keep building
<elfy> :)
<knome> but my gut feeling is that it's mostly in vain
 * skellat must have had a good day at work to have snuck in a mailing list reply
<knome> or completely
<Unit193> Indeed.
<knome> and clearly, i've had a more clear vision of what is happening then than now ;)
<elfy> knome: I asked infinity
<knome> okay
<elfy> who says ask stgraber ... 
<knome> well done
<elfy> [21:41] <infinity> elfy: If you weren't using HWE stacks (were you?), there's no real reason for you to do the point release.
<elfy> [21:41] <infinity> elfy: If you were, though, you don't really want to leave your users with the "current" precise ISO being unsupported.
<elfy> Unit193 knome - we definitely are not using them ?
<knome> don't take my word for it :P
<knome> but i'm pretty sure now that i saw my own email
<elfy> I've not - I'll stop panicking now :)
<knome> using them would have meant broken PAE support in point releases
<elfy> [21:42] <infinity> Yeah, you weren't.  Just double-checked.
<elfy> [21:42] <stgraber> elfy: ok, so I'll remove any build you have and that'll be it. Thanks for letting me know.
<knome> great :)
<elfy> rather glad I saw that -release mail now and not tomorrow morning ... 
<knome> heh
<skellat> That would've been a point release to nuke from orbit
<elfy> ali1234: thanks for the offer to get hands dirty - appreciate that a lot :)
<elfy> respinning 
<elfy> bad enough that the unicorn is uninstallable atm without anything else ... 
<knome> ok, off, bbl
<Unit193> G'bye.
<brainwash> just realized that ubuntu + spins do/did have serious lock screen issues recently
<brainwash> luckily not security related in xubu 14.04.0 :)
<brainwash> Unit193: remember the incomplete screen lock in lubuntu 13.10? it never got fixed...
<Unit193> Pah, really?  I thought it was at one point. :P
<Unit193> Oh dear.
<brainwash> by the way.. xmir dead? :)
<Unit193> No, no it's not.  utopic just pulled in some libs. :(
<brainwash> that's not a bad thing, or?
<Unit193> brainwash: Remember, I kind of follow the releases, but you likely know more.
<Unit193> Meh, I'd prefer everyone on Wayland (in the future).
<brainwash> I did follow the progress somewhat.. but lost track of it due to the lack of news about it
<brainwash> and sloooow bug fixing
<brainwash> because a software cursor is just a no-go, maybe they managed to fix this in the meantime
<elfy> it is also an SEP at the moment
<brainwash> sep?
<elfy> someone else's problem
<brainwash> luckily
<Unit193> Meh, I rebuilt ISOs for 0.5.0, 0.5.1 is out now though.
<brainwash> so we keep ignoring it for now
<Unit193> Basically, except I'll still do an ISO every so often.  knome recommended me talk to oll i, but not sure why exactly.
<Unit193> It's sure not landing in utopic.
<Unit193> There it is, Mythbuntu isn't doing .5 either.
<Unit193> Studio?
<elfy> not as far as I know
<elfy> I think it is just ubuntu and kubuntu 
<bluesabre> Unit193: problem with shimmer-themes?  Isn't that how meta-packages usually work?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Well, as an added feature it might be possible to remove them, but shimmer-themes depends on all of them, which xubuntu-artwork (thus xubuntu-default-settings) do as well.
<bluesabre> ah... it was more for the purpose of being able to install only one if somebody chose to do so (ubuntu-gnome)
<bluesabre> or xubuntu-core could just pull greybird, etc
<Unit193> I was more asking at the time what Xubuntu's plan was with it.
<Unit193> xubuntu-core still pulls -default-settings, so all.
<bluesabre> ah ok
<bluesabre> current plan is: let me know if something needs to change
<Unit193> (x-d-s is kind of what makes Xubuntu, Xubuntu.)
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Oh bah, you're the tech lead!  I'm following.
 * bluesabre looks for packages that need packaging
<Unit193> Not more! /o\
 * bluesabre starts with xfce4-appfinder
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-06
<bluesabre> anything else need to be ubuntu'd
<bluesabre> bbl
<ochosi> morning everyone
<Unit193> Howdy.
<elfy> morning both
<elfy> Unit193: [09:23] <mlankhorst> oh yeah getting the complaint about the no kernel modules with the alternate cd :(
<elfy> so it is NOT just me :p
<jjfrv8> 08:39 < ochosi> morning everyone
<jjfrv8> oops
<knome> well good morning jjfrv8 :)
<knome> or evening? :)
<jjfrv8> thanks. afternoon to you.
<knome> what's up?
<jjfrv8> well obviously I should have finished my coffee before getting on here :/
<knome> heh. i haven't even thought about coffee today, it's too hot
<jjfrv8> we're having a warm summer here. NE US is coldest spot on earth for last two months!
<jjfrv8> well in northern hemisphere anyway
<knome> heh
<knome> anything over 20Â°C is hot for me
<jjfrv8> s/warm/weird.  see coffee hasn't kicked in yet :)
<knome> lol
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-07
<ochosi> hm, have any of you guys used thunar's file templates ever?
<ochosi> i personally haven't, but i feel it sucks a bit that we have a menu that's always empty there...
<ochosi> File > Create Document > No templates installed (is what i'm referring to)
<forestpiskie> ochosi: nope - not me
<ochosi> morning pixie/elfy
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<bluesabre_> morning ochosi/elfy
<ochosi> hey bluesabre_ 
<knome> g'day
<bluesabre> hey knome
<bluesabre> whats up guys?
<knome> manually upgrading a wordpress 3.5 site to 3.9.2. fun!
<bluesabre> woo!
<knome> well, it's easier now
<knome> ...that i've just manually upgraded a wordpress 3.6 site to 3.9.2
<knome> one more to go after this ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: tested light-locker's dbus interface today for the first time
<ochosi> it's a bit more than half-ready i guess
<bluesabre> yeah, saw that
<bluesabre> slow and steady, eh
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> how are things?
<knome> hey elfy
<elfy> hi knome 
<elfy> bluesabre: ok thanks :) week off and the sun is mostly out 
<knome> woot :)
<knome> hope the sun isn't too hot ;)
<elfy> nope - this IS england :p
<knome> hah, well this is finland and it's too hot in here...
<ochosi> bluesabre: lordy, ppl still keep commenting on the black screen bugreport...
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes, I have no love for light-locker these days
<ochosi> bluesabre: not sure what to do about that though
<bluesabre> at this point, I think it's probably more of an issue with Xorg
<ochosi> well, it's multiple problems, but i guess the main issue is VT switching + suspend
<ochosi> or, even more compressed: VT switching
<bluesabre> yeah
<elfy> trouble is we don't know what these people posting have done in the meantime - only what they say they've done
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> yeah, and in fact ppl are misattributing all kinds of issues to this bug
<elfy> I'd bet my last penny - that they are different bugs
<ochosi> it has become a sort of catch-all
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> several times we've had reports from ubuntu users
<bluesabre> where their compositor froze and left them with a black screen
<elfy> so how about 
<bluesabre> which had nothing to do with light-locker, which they didn't have installed
<ochosi> yeah, or those folks that just have general suspend bugs because of the graphics stack or xorg or whatever...
<elfy> unsubscribe us from it - make a note that the original bug is fixed and if people have other issues they should create new bug reports as we're no longer monitoring this one
<ochosi> yeah, that sounds sensible
<elfy> and specifically if *we* get notification once xubuntu-bugs is unsubscribed deal with that locally
<elfy> shall I do that now ochosi ?
<ochosi> yup, that'd be great
<ochosi> thanks elfy 
<ochosi> still, in the long run we have to deal with this somehow
<ochosi> if vt switching is causing so much headache
<brainwash> light-locker 2.0 :)
<ochosi> yeah, but we need at least some sort of idea when that's going to happen
<ochosi> thing is, that's something *i* definitely can't implement
<ochosi> i guess cavalier wants to clean up the dbus branch first and release that as ll 1.6
<elfy> ochosi: This bug has become a catch-all for issues that appear to be similar. The original issue is now fixed, the Xubuntu Team is no longer monitoring this bug.
<elfy> too blunt? 
<ochosi> :>
<elfy> or just elfy enough 
<brainwash> going back to xscreensaver is not an option =S
<ochosi> it's quite blunt, but as i've mentioned this a few times in the report already, go for it
<ochosi> brainwash: why not?
<elfy> ok - xubuntu-bugs is unsubscribed and I've posted that :)
<ochosi> thanks
<elfy> we might get them via xfpm though - not sure
<brainwash> because we just switched to light-locker which is the better (looking) solution
<ochosi> well i'm not the last person to admit an honest mistake, if we start to feel that way
<ochosi> what will suck though with xscreensaver is the fun settings duplication with xfpm :)
<knome> i think we should just work wiht light-locker and keep improving it
<ochosi> in a way, i'd personally prefer if we tried to improve the situation though
<elfy> yay - they fixed the images \o/
<knome> even if it took until 16.04
<brainwash> right, 14.10 is just a play ground anyway, so no need to switch back
<ochosi> well, "just a playground" might be a bit exaggerated, but yeah, i tend to see it that way
<ochosi> as the recent vote on xchat has shown, the team doesn't agree on this though
<bluesabre> the ones not in favor seem like they'd be in favor of having hexchat though for the sake of quick irc
 * bluesabre advocates nothing
<brainwash> knome: is this bug still present? bug 1307929
<ubottu> bug 1307929 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "light-locker crashes on every unlock" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307929
<knome> to me, it looks like some people interpreted the question as "should we drop xchat forever" instead of "should we do an experiment with no xchat on one release"
<knome> brainwash, i'll check that later today, or sth
<bluesabre> yup
<brainwash> knome: thanks
<bluesabre> time for work, bbl
<ochosi> hf bluesabre, ttyl
<ochosi> elfy: if now a shitstorm arises, i hope we won't be subscribed anymore ;)
<elfy> I disagreed on removing something and leaving nothing in it's place - pidgin is not a replacement 
<elfy> ochosi: LOL
<elfy> that argument is like taking a car from someone and giving them a motorbike as a replacement almost ;)
<ochosi> do you really wanna start this discussion now? (cause i'm about to head out for lunch...)
<elfy> nah not at all - that's all done now :)
<ochosi> alright :)
<ochosi> in that case i can quietly head out ;)
<elfy> yep - have some lunch for me :)
 * ochosi is on a diet
<ochosi> but i'll make an exception for you, elfy 
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> bon appetit
<elfy> ochosi: when you're back - I like the tab swicher :)
<Unit193> Good luck with the CC check-in.
<knome> oh.
<skellat> Crap
<skellat> What time was that supposed to be?
<knome> in 50 mins.
<knome> skellat, did you catch this link from IRC or the ML: http://xubuntu.org/team-calendar/ ? :)
<skellat> No, actually I didn't
<knome> well, there you go :)
<knome> it incorporates the team calendar and the trello calendat
<knome> *calendar
<elfy> is there anything that we need from the CC?
<elfy> that anyone else knows ... 
<knome> don't think that we "need" anything
<elfy> I didn't think so
<Unit193> Mental help for the entire team...
<elfy> can't ask for that ... 
<knome> doubt the CC can help with that..
<elfy> 2 of the team would have to self-administer ... 
<knome> ochosi, pi-ping!
<elfy> even anyone other than us two from team would be good ;)
 * Unit193 pokes in for two seconds then out. ->
<elfy> thanks knome :)
<knome> np, and ty elfy 
<elfy> :)
<knome> bbl
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-08
<bluesabre> morning folks
<elfy> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<ochosi> ey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> heya ochosi
<bluesabre> everybody lurking, nobody talking :)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> actually i just returned from lunch
<ochosi> and i have a lot of work atm
<elfy> blimey ochosi - a 24 hour lunch - my type of meal 
<ochosi> :D
<bluesabre> I think he said he was on a diet recently, so he's probably just grazing out in the yard
<elfy> lol
 * bluesabre releases menulibre 2.0.5 https://launchpad.net/menulibre/2.0/2.0.5
<ochosi> nice, congrats bluesabre 
<bluesabre> eh, not really, just fixes another bug our users are so good at finding
<bluesabre> also, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2014-August/001107.html
<bluesabre> so if any updates come to debian in the next few days that you want in utopic, let me know so I can sync them
<bluesabre> ochosi: with feature freeze 2 weeks away, any chance of light-locker+1 landing in time?
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre: well i guess we can try to push the dev release until then
<McLovin> hello, sorry I keep missing everything in here, like the meetings, but the time differential from me to you guys is a big one
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-09
 * bluesabre releases Catfish 1.0.3 https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/1.0/1.0.3
 * bluesabre will upload ubuntu packages for catfish, menulibre, and mugshot tomorrow (later today)
<ochosi> congrats bluesabre, quite the releases going on there
<bluesabre> indeed, vincent_c just uploaded each to debian
<bluesabre> so I'll sync tomorrow
<bluesabre> *today
<ochosi> oh wow, you're around
<ochosi> early morning to you
<bluesabre> still up
<ochosi> :D
<bluesabre> still working :)
<ochosi> we should reply to andrew btw, i like his plan in general, but the idea with setting up the displays systemwide through xfsettingsd won't work
<ochosi> (and even if it did, that'd only be a solution for xfce)
<ochosi> i guess we either need 1. a daemon that handles all that jazz (like gnome-settings-daemon basically) and that starts early enough or 2. integrate some display handling directly into the greeter and make it produce a good default
<bluesabre> 2. would make more sense
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> that'd also mean getting rid of all the options for customizing though
<ochosi> although not necessarily
<ochosi> but i guess adding a default setup and then making that configurable...
<ochosi> phu, sounds like *work*
<elfy> sounds like 15.10 ... 
<elfy> :p
<elfy> morning ochosi bluesabre :)
<ochosi> morning elfy 
<elfy> ochosi: any word from pleia2 about the next meeting, I mostly only check overnight for pings
 * elfy has hopes that pleia2 will set meeting for a more useful time for me
<knome> haven't heard much
<elfy> knome: ok ta :)
<ochosi> same here
<ochosi> she's aware of having to set a meeting time (or at least was)
<knome> heh
<elfy> ok 
<ochosi> pleia2: could you please set the next meeting asap?
<ochosi> pleia2: thanks! :)
<elfy> that said - taking stuff to m/l works too :)
<bluesabre> yay, daily iso works in vbox again
<bluesabre> dang, the installer is sloooooow currently
<bluesabre> pleia2: I'll try to make it
<bluesabre> :)
<almostevery> hello, could you please let me know the name of ubuntu dev channel on irc?
<ochosi> pleia2: hm, sorry, have a family feast that day/time, will have to be excused for the meeting
<ochosi> bluesabre: i agree that the 128px tooltip on the desktop is ridiculously large, especially in combination with 32px icons
<quantibility> hi there
<ochosi> hi
<quantibility> so
<quantibility> i have bug
<quantibility> that i can describe
<quantibility> to a tee
<quantibility> but i think someone may have answer that question
<brainwash> ochosi: but aren't the tooltips meant to offer a quick preview? so bigger -> better?
<ochosi> yeah, hmpf, not really sure about the use of the previews :)
<brainwash> ochosi: https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/xubuntu-default-settings/tooltip-size
<brainwash> but now we have bigger desktop icons once again (48px)
<brainwash> oh, mmmh, utopic...
<ochosi> brainwash: this is not about merge requests, we need to do a comparison of the size combinations (like bluesabre started here: https://i.imgur.com/tsLjypk.png) and then find good reasons to go one or the other way
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> so that's why I requested it be lowered to 96px :)
<brainwash> bluesabre's pic visualizes it perfectly (bottom left)!
<ochosi> bbl prolly
<Guest67794> Hey does anyone know how to re-compile the kernel ? I need to compile it as non-pae, but it keeps ignoring the .config files and re-writing them
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-10
<bluesabre> ochosi: the screen off code for the greeter in utopic (1.8.5) seems to cause a new black screen issue
<bluesabre> If I walk away from my computer for an extended amount of time, coming back, I can move my mouse but the screen stays dark (on the login screen)
<bluesabre> If I type my password, the screen is restorted when logging back in
<bluesabre> Still investigating, but good to know
<bluesabre> xchat dropped from seed
<brainwash> bluesabre: NOOOOOOO
<brainwash> :P
<bluesabre> haha
<brainwash> so it looks like 14.10 will be a very boring release
<elfy> when you adding hexchat and removing pidgin, abiword, gnumeric and light locker :p
<brainwash> you can't just remove pidgin o.o
<brainwash> how should people communicate over the internet? :)
<bluesabre> send pings at spaced intervals to represent morse code
<elfy> tincans and string
<bluesabre> nope
<bluesabre> $ tincans
<bluesabre> tincans: command not found
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: hm, strange. i guess we can try the XActivateScreenSaver instead of XForceScreenSaver
<ochosi> but either way, this is a standard xlib call, not sure what could be wrong with that
<ochosi> also, that issue seems to have been reported in trusty already (going away for a longer period of time)
<ochosi> is the screen really off or just black but with backlight?
<ochosi> if it's off, then it's DPMS, not the stuff we added in the greeter
<ochosi> (i guess nobody previously tested sessions sitting at the greeter for longer)
<bluesabre> oh, this definitely was not a problem for me with trusty
<bluesabre> I'll try a different video driver to see if that makes a difference
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-03
<jmereis> Would this be the right room to get help installing alonside Win10?
<Noskcaj> jmereis, #xubuntu is
<jmereis> Ah, alright thanks.
<doko> hi
<doko> is anybody here working on the GCC 5 related library transitions?
<ochosi> hi doko, i think Noskcaj was working on that
<ochosi> but from what i remember, there weren't many changes needed in xubuntu or xfce related pkgs
<doko> ochosi, are you certain that you work in wily-proposed?
<ochosi> doko: i guess we would have to ask Noskcaj, i really didn't follow that too closely because he mentioned we'll mostly be fine
<ochosi> but i can investigate and get back to you on that
<doko> that would be welcome
<ochosi> bluesabre: quick sketch for an easy integration of panel-switch in the panel's config dialog. for now, i'd just add a single button based on whether panel-switch is there or not and that button would launch it: http://imgur.com/5u6qLOS
<Noskcaj> The only xfce thing (notes-plugin) is already fixed, then we just have 3 or 4 libs, let me find them
<ochosi> oh, speak of the devil :)
<Noskcaj> qqwing (gnome-sudoku dep) is fixed in mentors, will need a rebuild of gnome-sudoku.
<Noskcaj> libopenraw is ignored in debian, but it's only ubuntu package is tumbler, so we might have an easier time just moving away from it
<doko> no need for any library transition?
<doko> because there are at least some of the gnome mm packages missing
<Noskcaj> qqwing is a library
<Noskcaj> libopenraw is only by tumbler in ubuntu, but will need a transition if we don't move from it
<Noskcaj> gtkmathview and libgtk2-perl are ftbfs for other reasons
<Noskcaj> lyx has some weird aarch64 issue, and everything else is in other packagesets
<Noskcaj> doko, Would you happen to have time to upload qqwing for me?
<doko> Noskcaj, sure, can you give me a source package, test built in wily-proposed?
<Noskcaj> doko, Could you upload it to debian, or do you want an ubuntu only one?
<dkessel> ochosi: i will not be able to attend the meeting tomorrow
<ochosi> dkessel: no worries, but thanks for letting me know!
<doko> Noskcaj, both is fine
<Noskcaj> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/q/qqwing/qqwing_1.3.4-1.dsc
<doko> Noskcaj, uploaded
<Noskcaj> gnome-sudoku is the only r-dep, it's just some minor bugfixes (needed when we switch to gnome >=3.17) and the gcc5 lib change
<doko> ohh, replaced Closes with Addresses, so it's not automatically closed
<Noskcaj> ok, thanks
<andrzejr> wxmaxima is a bit setting itself as a default application for application/zip etc.
<ochosi> hey andrzejr 
<andrzejr> hi ochosi
<andrzejr> how are you?
<ochosi> good good
<ochosi> a bit too busy to really code, but that's life :)
<ochosi> how about you?
 * knome blinks
<knome> i just figured out what kind of input the QA tracker xmlrpc wants to give me the output i want
<knome> so what do we want out of it?
<krytarik> knome: There you go :) - http://paste.openstack.org/show/1U6G2gtJqOEcxhuL4Lyt/
<Unit193> knome: There you go: http://paste.openstack.org/show/5KhCuR1s4j0RGIc5sav0/
<knome> krytarik, so you can't view the documentation with a PDF reader now?
<knome> :>
<Unit193> krytarik: Why unwrap?
<krytarik> knome: Hehe. :P
<krytarik> Unit193: Because the list seems to be growing. :P
<Unit193> krytarik: When it grows, that's when you wrap, not when you put it on one line...
<krytarik> Well, hardly anyone else seems to be doing it too, so... :P
<Unit193> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/inxi.git/tree/debian/control vs http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/thunar-dropbox-plugin.git/tree/debian/control
<krytarik> And also, it looks kind of crappy to me. :D
<Unit193> It's the standard, and really nice to not scroll.
<krytarik> Sooo... :D - http://paste.openstack.org/show/MqvUKza6T5IN3p2iZsyU/
<Unit193> :D
<krytarik> Well, I agree with the readability bit, but it still looks weird. :P
<knome> krytarik, Unit193: can you collaborate and make those both MP's, please?
<knome> i don't know when i'll get to them, so to make sure they don't just vanish in my browser history...
 * Unit193 sets the homepage to it.
<knome> to both?
<knome> no can do that.
<knome> just get on with it and push to branches.
<knome> i've been too good to you
<Unit193> I didn't have anything, really.  Mine is supposed to be reviewed by a tech person. :P
<knome> then push it to a branch and request a review from a tech person
<knome> seriously.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-04
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - could you social media LTS testing please :)
<knome> wut
<flocculant> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-August/010839.html
<knome> i'll tweet
<flocculant> thanks knome :)
<knome> done
<knome> bbl
<ochosi> morning all
<flocculant> morning ochosi 
<knome> hey ochosi 
<knome> flocculant, what was it you thought potentially useful information from tracker?
<flocculant> for others - a sum of test report numbers 
<knome> per milestone?
<knome> or per build?
<knome> or per cycle?
<flocculant> well 
<knome> i can get any and each, fwiw
<flocculant> maybe a weekly running total 
<knome> well - at least i believe so
<knome> that's the hardest one :D
<knome> but i'll see per milestone first
<ochosi> hehe
<flocculant> ha ha 
<ochosi> nicely played, flocculant 
<flocculant> well milestone is a now and again thing - not sure what use that is
<knome> flocculant, that's a starting point for further introspection
<flocculant> maybe - 2 - milestone(s) and daily(ies) 
<knome> milestone being any milestone set in tracker
<knome> inluding daily
<flocculant> reason I say sum is assuming our tracker grabs numbers once a day 
<knome> it can do it more often
<knome> i can also get xubuntu upgrade tests in there relatively easily
<flocculant> and if it is going to do so, grab before 10:00UTC 
<knome> i can make it grab at 9:35:23
<knome> if that's what you fancy
<flocculant> not going to be able to get into much discussion - getting sorted for work
<flocculant> that time would be ok - image builds ~10am 
<knome> ok - let's see what comes of this
<flocculant> what *I* would love is a way to put in date x and date y and get numbers of tests done per milestone 
<flocculant> I'll try and talk to dkessel and balloons about that
<knome> flocculant, i might be able to do that... it's not completely trivial, or a light operation, but it can be donw
<knome> *done
<flocculant> ok :)
<knome> it's better to do that in the tracker
<knome> but...
<knome> yeah.
<knome> $things are better done $elsewhere
<flocculant> yep - would be - but with tracker we have it's not possible to do that 
<ochosi> flocculant: anything you want us to discuss in the meeting or will you be about?
<ochosi> (read "getting ready for work, so that sounded like you're not going to make it)
<flocculant> you could bring up trusty testing - woke up to that ... 
<flocculant> knome: what I'd love to see from tracker is something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/11998490/
<flocculant> might be best to report that as tracker bug
<knome> definitely...
<flocculant> ochosi: and no - not going to be here - so just trusty atm :) 
<ochosi> alrighty :)
<flocculant> there'll be QA mails going to list - lots 
<ochosi> anything you want us to discuss concretely or shall we just #info it?
<flocculant> just want to get trusty done first
<flocculant> info will do :)
<ochosi> okeydokey :)
<flocculant> knome: I thought as much :)
<flocculant> might get lost today in change to fibre broadband - if I do I'll see you tomorrow :) 
<flocculant> bbl 
<ochosi> okeydokey, hf flocculant :)
<ochosi> !team | meeting in 30mins
<ubottu> meeting in 30mins: bluesabre, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<ochosi> alrighty
<ochosi> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug  4 08:31:16 2015 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ochosi> !team | meeting time!
<ubottu> meeting time!: bluesabre, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<ochosi> welcome everybody, who's about?
<knome> oâ
<ochosi> hm, menage a deux? :)
<ochosi> wake up Unit193!
<ObrienDave> he's sleeping ;P
<knome> ObrienDave, isn't that when you tell somebody to wake up?
<ochosi> yeah, seemingly went bacak to bed
<ochosi> that sucks, the first work item is for him :)
<knome> ochosi, my action is done
<ochosi> oh perfect, a netsplit
<knome> time for secret decisions!
<ochosi> :p
<knome> boring meeting
<ochosi> well, i guess we can come back to the open action items later
<knome> is this why i'm up before noon?
<knome> ;)=
<ochosi> #topic Open action items
<ochosi> knome: you mentioned something about having completed something there?
<knome> yes, my only open action item
<ochosi> oddly, i only see the xubuntu-dev action item as open from last meeting
<knome> take the garbage out of your eye
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> there it is
<knome> yes, under the "Action items, by person" header
<knome> it's very confusing, i know!
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> only looked at the top of the summary therer
<ochosi> so anyway, Unit193 ?
<ochosi> any news on xubuntu-dev to review requirements for xubuntu-core iso, investigating patches to livecd-rootfs, ubuntu-cdimage and debian-cd ?
<knome> i saw a patch for that yesterday
<knome> http://paste.openstack.org/show/5KhCuR1s4j0RGIc5sav0/
<ochosi> right, i've seen that one before too
<knome> but - i don't know what that is supposed to be a patch against
<Unit193> livecd-rootfs
<knome> i tried to get Unit193 push it into a branch so we could have nice MPs...
<ochosi> +1
<Unit193> Doubt it's ready for that.
<knome> for "what" exactly?
<ochosi> also, Unit193, would you mind splitting up the workitem in the blueprint a bit?
<knome> that would be nice.
<Unit193> Wouldn't mind.
<knome> Unit193, split it up - you'll got to keep all pieces though
<knome> *get
<knome> anyway, please do MPs
<ochosi> #action Unit193 to split up the xubuntu-core workitem on the blueprint to be able to track the progress better
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to split up the xubuntu-core workitem on the blueprint to be able to track the progress better
<Unit193> When they're ready.
<knome> Unit193, thanks.
<Unit193> ochosi: Split it however you like.
<ochosi> actually MPs can be updated easily
<ochosi> Unit193: wait, that was your action item
<ochosi> also, iirc micahg said he would help, but wasn't sure what part you needed help with, so just create a workitem for him that tells him what to do
<knome> and MPs need branches, so you can push to a branch and do a MP once the branch is ready for a merge... but i don't really care if you prepare and do MPs once stuff is ready
<ochosi> uhm right, since it's obviously early and Unit193 doesn't seem to want to discuss this any further, let's move on...
<ochosi> #topic Team updates
<Unit193> ochosi: Not much to say, so I said little. :P
<ochosi> frankly, the paste you link to every now and then tells me practically nothing, so i really wouldn't know where you stand on the matter and how to help
<knome> #done knome improved the status tracker and fixed some bugs (assigned bugs are now correctly assigned to the assignee)
<ochosi> Unit193: maybe micah understands the livecd stuff, but in that case just create a workitem for him to review some branches of yours (before that you obviously have to push some branches)
<knome> #done knome started looking at the QA trackers XML-RPC interface
<knome> #undo
<knome> ochosi, ^^please #undo
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC
<knome> what?
<knome> :'(
<ochosi> awesome
<knome> lderan!!!
<ochosi> the #done thing doesn't really work it seems
<ochosi> #topic Team updates
<knome> not when undoing, it seems...
<knome> #done knome improved the status tracker and fixed some bugs (assigned bugs are now correctly assigned to the assignee)
<knome> #done knome started looking at the QA trackers XML-RPC interface in preparation to pulling data to the tracker
<ochosi> #info ochosi pushed several updates to Greybird to improve the look of CSDs, can be tested via the shimmer-daily PPA
<knome> #done knome updated the "For Derivatives" page on the website - landing the preliminary package list with xubuntu branding - feedback welcome from developers
<ochosi> #info ochosi started working on an "a11y" version of Greybird's window manager theme, WIP can be checked out and commented on here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tree/xfwm4-a11y
<knome> #done knome worked on PDF exports for the documentation; basic exports are now ready to go
<ochosi> nice one
<knome> #done krytarik updated the Makefiles for the documentation
<knome> #nick krytarik
<ochosi> hmright, i'm done, anything/anyone else?
<knome> hmm i guess yes
<knome> to be complete
<knome> #done knome added a burndown chart for the status tracker
<ochosi> #done bluesabre and micahg uploaded shimmer-themes 2.0.0 to wily
<ochosi> mkay, then let's move on
<ochosi> #topic Announcements
<ochosi> #info there's a new 14.04 LTS point release coming up, please help with testing!
<Unit193> Mmm, indeed.
<knome> #info more information at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-August/010839.html
<knome> (slightly, but more)
<ochosi> darn, beat me to it :)
 * ochosi empties his paste-cache
<Unit193> Mica forwarded one that was more.
<knome> #info General information on 14.04.3: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-August/010838.html
<ochosi> good good
<ochosi> any other announcements?
<knome> nope
<ochosi> ok good, let's move on then
<ochosi> #topic Discussion
<ochosi> knome: anything you wanna discuss wrt tracker?
<knome> not really, unless anybody has feature requests or complaints
<knome> or have found bugs
<ochosi> no complaints, this is really awesome sauce
<knome> good to hear
<ochosi> i'd love to see it hooked up to xubuntu.org asap
<knome> well, one thing i just figured out would be great too:
<knome> when a work item gets marked done, save an entry to the database
<knome> so we can track when certain things have happened
<knome> useful for the team updates too
<knome> or maybe even replaces
<knome> unless there is something that doesn't fit into work items
<ochosi> mm, right
<ochosi> how do you do that for the burndown now?
<ochosi> or is that just the sum that you save there
<knome> just save a done/inprogress/total of items
<ochosi> right, so you're considering individual workitem dates
<ochosi> makes sense to me
<knome> yes, but just as a list
<knome> eg. no more/different burndown charts
<Unit193> Going to put it on the /dev page?
<knome> Unit193, at some point maybe.
<knome> i'd rather get some hosting that is not mine.
<Unit193> Or rather more useful, in this topic.
<knome> and get it hooked
<knome> i will have to talk about that, likely with pleia2 
<ochosi> mhm, indeed
<ochosi> knome: workitem? ;)
<knome> maybe
<knome> i just added a few already...
<knome> if you look at the details page, i have loads...
<ochosi> anyway, i guess the email reminders/summaries will be really helpful too
<knome> more than any individual
<ochosi> yeah i know
<knome> yeah, i should hook that up
<ochosi> but you're known to be workitem-king
<knome> hah
<ochosi> i think you've been for several cycles
<knome> yeah, i'm not saying "i'm doing more", i'm just saying "yes, i will track work"...
<ochosi> yeah, but that's quite good
<ochosi> it has taken some time for me to appreciate the usefulness of that
<knome> ok, i have another discussion item
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-March/010670.html
<ochosi> anyhow, apart from the email feature i have the feeling that the tracker is rather feature-complete atm
<knome> from the UI yes, but not the admin UI; there is literally no admin UI
<knome> and many things are hardcoded
<knome> so i'll need to consider how i will want to manage that in the future
<ochosi> right, but i'm not sure there was any admin interface to status.ubuntu.com
<knome> i don't think so
<ochosi> but yeah, that'd be another feature
<knome> but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have one
<ochosi> indeed
<knome> there are a few things that would be "nice to have" regarding that, so..
<ochosi> #subtopic Seeds & Composition XSD Review
<knome> so anyway
<knome> that
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-March/010670.html
<knome> i believe the outcome of that thread was that people are fine with it
<knome> though, i didn't get any comments from eg. micahg, who said he wanted to comment
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> i'd say we update it now as it is clearly better than what we have
<knome> otoh, it's 5 months since the thread began...
<ochosi> if he has concerns he can always mention them and we can try to work them out
<Unit193> I think I made comments on that.
<knome> yes... we likely have a pad for that
<knome> but where...
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-sd-seeds-composition
<knome> that's the one
<knome> so i believe that's the version we want
<ochosi> ah yeah, i remember that one
<knome> Unit193, would you say your concerns are addressed in that version?
<Unit193> I don't remember so I'll say 'sure'
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> that's the spirit
<ochosi> :)
<knome> can you check it, please?
<knome> the brownish color is Unit193
<Unit193> * The package should be maintained well upstream    hrm..
<knome> "The above guidelines can be omitted when there are extensive benefits to seeding the package, ..."
<knome> this is a strategy document, it's idealist, we'll never get tehre
<Unit193> (Also, if we have 'well', can't it be 'well maintained'?)
<knome> but it's good to have a goal
<Unit193> Hah.
<knome> ok, so ochosi, will you do the honors of updating the wiki, or shall i?
<ochosi> knome: thou shallst
<knome> #action knome to update the Strategy Document wiki page with the new "Seeds & Composition" section
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to update the Strategy Document wiki page with the new "Seeds & Composition" section
<ochosi> alrighty
<ochosi> is that it or is there more to discuss?
<knome> i think that's about it
<knome> wait
<ochosi> Unit193: anything else from your side?
<knome> #undo the last item
 * ochosi waits
<knome> i did it already
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<knome> ta
<Unit193> Not that I can think of.
<Unit193> I wouldn't know, ask krytarik.
<Unit193> :D
<ochosi> ok, then let's conclude that part and the meeting ftm
<ochosi> #Schedule next meeting
<ochosi> argh
<knome> hah
<ochosi> do i have to undo that?
<ochosi> or will the clowns eat me if i try
<knome> no
<ochosi> #topic Schedule next meeting
<knome> it isn't recognised as a command
<ochosi> #info slickymaster is to schedule the next meeting
<knome> boo, Unit193 isn't the next chair
<ochosi> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug  4 09:20:15 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-08-04-08.31.moin.txt
<knome> that would have been the cherry on top of the cake topping
<ochosi> hehe indeed
<Unit193> Good, that'd be bad.
<knome> thanks ochosi 
<Unit193> Too many meetings with nothing on the agenda.
 * ochosi considers to change the order on the meetings page
<Unit193> Yes.
<ochosi> thanks y'all
<knome> ochosi, if you ordered by team name alphabetically...
<knome> XPL -> Artwork -> Debian
<ochosi> ok, minutes are up
<ochosi> alrighty, gotta take off
<ochosi> have a nice day everyone!
<knome> have a nice day
<ochosi> and sorry again for the odd meeting time
<Unit193> Works better than others..
<bluesabre> woops, meeting
<flocculant> can someone check that cdimage isn't just playing up for me please - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20150804/wily-desktop-amd64.iso
<flocculant> getting network unreachable - but I've had internet work going on here 
<drc> looks like I'm grabbing it...
<flocculant> ... looks like I can grab ubuntu's daily ok :|
<flocculant> which is not helpful :p
<krytarik> flocculant: Same here though - the entirety of cdimage.
<flocculant> krytarik: dead do you mean? 
<krytarik> Yap.
<flocculant> ok - perhaps the big pipe across the pond has a leak then :p
<drc> OK, I'm confused.  I can go to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20150804/ and grab anything I see...what am I doing wrong? :)
<flocculant> though - I appear to be able to connect with f/fox but not wget nor with zsync
<flocculant> drc: it's downloading ok for you? 
<drc> so far, but remember the other day when it failed at the end...
<flocculant> heh 
<flocculant> today's cdbuild log for us ends with "ssh: connect to host goldenapple.canonical.com port 22: Connection timed out"
<krytarik> flocculant: Only we are on the same side of pond. :P
<krytarik> + the
<flocculant> yea - and it's not working for us - or for me - it works a bit :D
<flocculant> krytarik: did you try with a browser or? 
<krytarik> Yep, FF.
<flocculant> oh - now it's working with wget ... 
<krytarik> Was going to mention that.
<drc> now...what am I going to do with a spare 15.10 daily image?
<flocculant> test it :D
<krytarik> Seems to be working here too now.
<drc> you thin it has rabies?
<flocculant> wget working - zsync was still failing ... 
<flocculant> drc: for sure 
<pleia2> flocculant: knome got twitter, updated fb and G+
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks :)
<drc> DL'd completely
<flocculant> drc: ok - cheers 
<flocculant> something's up somewhere 
<drc> GCHQ must have gotten back from their tea break and decided to play with you :)
<flocculant> at least krytarik proved it wasn't dodgy isp's for me :)
<krytarik> LOL - yes.
<drc> hehe...14.04.3 support requests starting already...and it's not even out :)
<flocculant> an unlucky tester ;)
<krytarik> That's just usual updates though.
<krytarik> Tada! :P - http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/b/base-files/base-files_7.2ubuntu5.3/changelog
<flocculant> even so - surely it shouldn't be updat/grading to .3 if it's not been released
<flocculant> ok - so they upgraded the number assuming that the world wouldn't collapse between then and Thursday :p
<drc> ignorance here...can one "upgrade" before a release (i.e., a daily not an alpha/beta/releease).
<flocculant> not a clue 
<flocculant> these point releases I guess are oddballs anyway
<krytarik> Hah, this one still lives :P - http://paste.openstack.org/show/LD8ALdFLOmjjIXfpC0K9/
<ochosi> bluesabre: what did you think of my lame mockup for xfpanel-switch btw?
<bluesabre> hm, which one?
<ochosi> posted it a day ago or so
<ochosi> let me dig it up again or repost...
<ochosi> there it is again: http://imgur.com/nLK2ZD6
<ochosi> this would be the place i'd include it somehow
<ochosi> not sure yet of the label, that's more of a placeholder really
<bluesabre> wow
<bluesabre> that is lame
<bluesabre> :p
<bluesabre> sure, if we can find a nice way to stick it in there
<ochosi> hehe yeah i know
<ochosi> i did announce the lameness part though
<ochosi> so no surprises there
<ochosi> however, i thought about it a bit and i guess having a single button from which to launch the app is sufficient. deeper integration would basically mean patching it all directly into the panel
<ochosi> and i wonder whether it wouldn't be good to close the panel preferences upon opening xfpanel-switch
<ochosi> might crash anyway when the panel gets restarted
<bluesabre> pretty likely :)
<bluesabre> 2 menulibre bug fixes in one night, I'm on a roll
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> heh
<Unit193> micahg: lp:~unit193/debian-cd/xubuntu-core lp:~unit193/livecd-rootfs/xubuntu-core
<cjbayliss> ochosi: maybe put the "Load/Save Configuration" between the "Help" and "Close" buttons?
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-05
<bluesabre> if anybody is interested in checking out the next menulibre and looking for any annoying bugs... https://code.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/+archive/ubuntu/daily :)
<Unit193> Yer up late.
<bluesabre> trying not to be
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> summary of changes: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/menulibre/master/revision/290#NEWS
<bluesabre> tomorrow I'll start poking folks for lo-style-elementary as an alternative to tango/human themes
<bluesabre> bed time now
<ochosi> cjbayliss: not sure, that is not a very standard location for such a button
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> bluesabre: i suggest we link all the bugs you tackle with the new menulibre release to the bugs blueprint, that way we can more meaningfully trace what happened during the cycle
<ochosi> linked that one you marked "fix committed" yesterday
<ochosi> oh, and a few others :)
<ochosi> knome: btw, for the community funded server space for our tracker, i could approach david planella again (you remember, my affirmed/rejected application for community donations fund)
<ochosi> lemme know what you had in mind there
<knome> sure
<knome> basically, i had nothing in specific in mind there
<knome> remind you, hardware/servers for me are "i don't care as long as it works"
<knome> practically, i need a server that can do php, sqlite/mysql and cron
<knome> and ssh...
<knome> :P
<knome> it can be a webhotel-like setup - as long as it does what is mentioned above
<Unit193> Bummer, there goes that.  I only have telnet.
<knome> and what comes from cron, it'd better be unrestricted than "you can do one cron job a day"
<knome> be back in 15-30
<ochosi> knome: right, but i meant whether you had any plans wrt financing, so i know whether it makes sense to ask david. also an estimated annual cost would be good to have before i get in touch with him
<ochosi> fwiw, the automated testing initiative by nicholas skaggs and others will be community-hosted too (i don't think they have settled on a provider yet, but it's clear it's not going to be canonical-based)
<ochosi> not sure whether there is any potential (or wish or openness or... benefit) for cooperation on any side
<knome> i'm sure we can cooperate, but otoh, i don't know what the performance would be on that, considering it would make sense to take up all resources when testing
<knome> pleia2 and Unit193 would likely have better ideas of hosting costs (outside finland), but it's likely to be less than 100 euros per year anyway
<knome> even if you had a small virtual server completely controlled by yourself
<knome> what i'm trying to say is that i don't know enough of the options to pick and ultimately, i don't care :]
<ochosi> okeydokey :)
<knome> i guess at the same time, there is this question whether the whole xubuntu.org domain should be hosted on that server
<knome> maybe not
<knome> because i don't think the SSL stuff is so easy then
 * knome sighs and shrugs
<ochosi> i guess if we get our own hosting, the question arises whether we want to set up our own (less laggy) wiki
<knome> yep, i've been thinking about that too
<knome> anything that does under the "dev." subdomain would be fine with that hosting
<knome> to keep some kind of guidelines for the scope
<knome> then it's also easier to rationalize
<ochosi> i really wouldn't mind getting that stuff more integrated in our website through that
<knome> in what way would that be?
<ochosi> currently even the general color-scheme (and i know that sounds petty) suggests the stuff on the wiki is somehow different
<knome> sure
<ochosi> i dunno, e.g. by keeping the header of the website even in the wiki
<knome> if we set up our own wiki, then it definitely should be integrated with at least the devel area
<ochosi> not so much "open link in new tab" feeling
<knome> if/when we set this up
<knome> we might want to consider another menu bar for the website
<knome> which would have links like
<knome> website  developers  launchpad  ...
<knome> whatever
<knome> and then integrate them all with that
<knome> well, we can't integrate lp with that
<knome> but anyway...
<knome> because i don't think the same idea for layouting goes for the devel area than the user facing website
<knome> or practically: the same theme won't work well with both
<knome> which is why i haven't tried to mimic the website theme on the tracker
<ochosi> hm, yeah you're prolly right there
<ochosi> but then again, the tracker feels so much more "xubuntu" than the ubuntu wiki or the old tracker or lp ftm...
<ochosi> also, it's just really nicely balanced, +1 on the colorscheme
<knome> of course
<knome> thanks
<knome> i mean, sure, i'll try to make it more xubuntu, that's for sure
<knome> and if/when we set up the developer area (with wiki perhaps), i'll likely take even more time to make it look integrated
<knome> add a xubuntu logo etc...
<knome> didn't want that stuff to take time/motivation away from getting the features right
<ochosi> yeah, totally makes sense
<ochosi> (and obviously paid off)
<knome> ffff, 20+Â°C here
<knome> not my favorite
<dkessel> hmmm, i frequently have thunar crashing after renaming files (in wily) - is that a known "feature"?
<ochosi> dkessel: doesn't sound like one
<ochosi> but is it reproducible on v?
<dkessel> do i have V? :)
<ochosi> i dunno :) do you? (v for vivid, not vendetta)
<dkessel> i am renaming files in a way that they will change order in the folder afterwards
<dkessel> no i am only running trusty and wily
<ochosi> have you tried to use the same thunar version on trusty (e.g. via PPA)
<dkessel> the rename is successful, but the thunar window just disappears afterwards. no crash notification either
<ochosi> (just to exclude that it's a bug in gvfs or something like that)
<ochosi> heh, so that's why you said "feature" :)
<dkessel> mh. not yet. got to go back to work. taking a note to investigate further...
<ochosi> thanks!
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> felt it would be valuable so i just went ahead and did it ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> also, i like to feed the tracker now that i enjoy it
<bluesabre> I'm working on getting VMs up for each desktop environment to test with... just to make sure that 2.0.7 is that last 2.0.x release :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> sounds awesome
<ochosi> i wonder btw whether there's any clear rationale as to why e.g. gedit has the "new" button with a label in the headerbar
<ochosi> instead of just using the document-new icon
<ochosi> guess i'd have to skim the HIG a bit
<bluesabre> probably
<bluesabre> I've noticed that gnome apps present their headerbars all a bit differently... so if I had to guess I'd say the rules are not too specific there
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> soo....
<ochosi> one takeaway for me is that headerbar controls should be dynamic
<ochosi> i.e. change or update depending on the selection/view
<ochosi> so i guess it doesn't make sense to show the undo/redo buttons initially
<ochosi> especially when there's nothing to undo/redo
<ochosi> and no "delete" button when nothing is selected
<ochosi> that one should only appear when it would work
<bluesabre> I'm not a huge fan of dynamic controls
<ochosi> seems like the HIG suggests not to put insensitive items in the headerbar normally
<bluesabre> imagine if icons appeared and disappeared in libreoffice
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> yeah, obviously menulibre!=libreoffice
<ochosi> libreoffice with headerbar is quite unthinkable
<bluesabre> indeed
<ochosi> btw, the "new" button also is a label in the HIG: https://developer.gnome.org/hig/stable/header-bars.html.en
<ochosi> that page is not a bad read tbh
<bluesabre> ah, there's not really multiple views in menulibre though
<bluesabre> it's always in editor view
<bluesabre> gedit's open button https://i.imgur.com/9exSoYk.png
<bluesabre> the new tab button next to it is the "new" button
<bluesabre> I can see hiding/showing the delete button, but any other button would be revealed if the app was used at all
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> the "new" button somehow makes sense as a combobox btw
<ochosi> like in gedit
<ochosi> since you open a popup with multiple options
<ochosi> instead of executing a single action
<bluesabre> yeah, makes sense
<bluesabre> don't want the headerbar to become too cluttered though
<bluesabre> app icon, app controls, search bar, window controls
<bluesabre> it starts getting a bit messy
<bluesabre> but really, that'd only be an extra button's width, so I shouldn't whine :)
<bluesabre> I'll make that change later today (unless you want to go ahead and play with it)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> dunno, i guess the current menu would have to be converted to a popover for this to really work, no?
<ochosi> also, what's the rationale behind the label next to the delete icon?
<bluesabre> ochosi: no particular reason, I just copied geary's design on that
<bluesabre> I'll probably drop that label
<bluesabre> it's fairly useless :D
<bluesabre> and yeah, the plan is to replace the menu with a popover
<bluesabre> make things more consistent
<ochosi> right, i'd rather use the label for the "new" combobox tbh ;)
<bluesabre> mhm
<ochosi> anyway, can probably poke that part a bit
<ochosi> what's the "refresh" button good for?
<ochosi> and, shouldn't that really go into the menu or is that something ppl would use regularly enough to take up so much space?
<ochosi> oh wow, that's "revert"?
<bluesabre> yeah, that's revert
<bluesabre> is there a better standard icon for revert?
<ochosi> i'll take a look
<ochosi> but refresh really doesn't work for me
<ochosi> what's the exact usecase though?
<ochosi> resetting a complete desktop file?
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> undo all my changes to last saved state
<ochosi> humm
<bluesabre> document-revert-symbolic?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> that sounds ok
<ochosi> but i hope that doesn't conflict too badly with "undo"
<ochosi> somehow i'd rather have that somewhere else tbh
<ochosi> idea: make the "undo" a combobox as well with either the previous steps listed (like history) and as a last step "revert to initial state" or something
<ochosi> too much work?
<bluesabre> probably
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> I have the history stored as a stack, but it would be ugly to do something like that
<ochosi> or make it a combobox and say "go back 1 step" and "go back to step 1" :D
<bluesabre> ew ew ew
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/C8EtKbA.png
<ochosi> hehe
 * ochosi likes to appal bluesabre 
<ochosi> right, that icon is much better
<ochosi> what is somehow fun is that the "move up" and "-down" buttons are also affecting the same items like the buttons in the headerbar, but they're in a totally different place :)
<ochosi> then again, pushing all of this to the inline toolbar is probably fugly
<ochosi> btw, where are you standing on flipping the switch back for gtk overlay scrollbars? still no likey with greybird's better theming?
<bluesabre> I'll have to take a look again
<bluesabre> are the mini-scrollbars transparent?
<ochosi> it'd be best for you to try yourself
<ochosi> i can screenshot them, then again i guess handson is better
<bluesabre> I'll test it tonight
<bluesabre> re: move icons, the context is slightly different, editing the menu as opposed to the launcher
<ochosi> greybird1.6 already should have the theming for it
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> so flipping the switch should be enough to test immediately
<ochosi> in wily
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> just moving quickly this morning to get ready for work
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> i think i'll do a new greybird release soon btw
<ochosi> i guess no progress on getting shimmer-themes back under our umbrella
<ochosi> i might actually try to get the CSD shadow to match the xfwm4 shadow more
<ochosi> that's one last thing that bugs me
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> committed the revert icon
<ochosi> k nice
<flocculant> knome: thanks for pinging that mail from Adam to the list
<flocculant> dkessel: if that crash on rename is a feature - then I'm missing it 
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh meh, changing that to a combobox is not that easy, that's a menu...
<ochosi> pleia2, knome: about hosting the xubuntu tracker somewhere community-funded, i have talked to dpm about that briefly today and he said that if we were to apply for that, he'd +1 it and that he thinks this'd be great. so i guess our chances of getting the funding for the hosting are pretty good.
<ochosi> pleia2: since you seem to be the hosting guru around here, what would you recommend? or can you just put together an offer for that at a company/provider you can recommend? i guess asking for ~100â¬ p.a. should be fine
<ochosi> pleia2: would be great if you could get back to me on that so we can split the work into workitems somehow
<bluesabre> ochosi: a combobox is probably not the right way to go either... we're not making a selection, but performing an action... right?
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<bluesabre> in the case of the combobox, it'd be difficult to create the same type of thing twice without resetting the combo... which just makes it a button
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> so what is it in gedit then?
<pleia2> ochosi: I have capacity right now on the ubuntu-us.org server
<pleia2> that's a linode that has been donated to the community
<pleia2> I could also ask gandi.net to hook us up, but if I don't need to manage another system, I'd be happy :)
<pleia2> if knome can get me his ssh key in the next 40 minutes, I can set up an account (otherwise airplanes all day)
 * pleia2 sends msgs to knome
<knome> pleia2, but you already have my ssh key...
<pleia2> knome: I grabbed from launchpad :)
<knome> yep
<knome> thanks
<ochosi> pleia2: oh ok, that sounds perfect as well!
<ochosi> thanks for setting that up then! :)
<pleia2> sure :)
<ochosi> so is that pro bono or shall we apply for community funds still?
<ochosi> knome, pleia2: also, dpm said they "generally recommend to host externally for more flexibility and to avoid blocking on Canonical IS"
<pleia2> this is the server that runs ubuntu-us.org and a couple other state team blogs
<ochosi> knome: in case you're still considering moving the x.org site as a whole
<pleia2> gandi.net is super supportive and I have a contact over there, so they could likely give us a free VPS if we want one
<knome> ochosi, yep, i still am
<knome> pleia2, ^
<pleia2> noted
<knome> but heh, we just asked for SSL
<knome> go us
<ochosi> :>
<pleia2> heh :)
<knome> i don't know how *that* works out on external hosting
<ochosi> well, live and learn ;)
<ochosi> dunno, we can ask i guess
<ochosi> or do you know anything about the ubuntu-us server and SSL?
<knome> i mean
<knome> the technical issues likely aren't the issue
<knome> the social/funding issues might be
<knome> or "how do we use a SSL certificate paid by canonical on a gandi hosted site" type of things
<knome> but then i don't know much of that...
<ochosi> i guess we can always ask
<knome> does it echo in here?
<ochosi> but if canonical encourages the community folks to move to external hosting...
<ochosi> does it echo in here?
<knome> :D
<pleia2> we could also use community funding to pay for our own cert, they renew every year anyway so we wouldn't always need to use the associated private key that canonical may not wish to part with
<knome> right, that's an option
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> right now i'm hungry and grumpy
<ochosi> i guess dpm would be fine with that too
<knome> but really, i'd just like somebody else to take care of this
<knome> i can handle the migration from server to server
<knome> and things associated with it
<pleia2> I'd rather not volunteer to run a whole 'nother server right now ;)
<knome> i understand that
<ochosi> :)
<pleia2> so we can chat about all that later
<knome> yes, likely the best way to go
<knome> let's let IS set up SSL 
<ochosi> shall we put it in a workitem though or throw it on the meeting agenda not to forget?
<knome> and use this server for the tracker for now
<knome> i can add a work item
<ochosi> k, thx
<ochosi> so basically this: /dev goes to ubuntu-us for the tracker, the rest remains where it is?
<ochosi> or did you mean: migrate to ubuntu-us with x.org and everything that belongs to it and sort out SSL with IS?
<knome> huh
<knome> no
<pleia2> just setting up tracker for now
<knome> let's keep IS hosting for xubuntu.org for now
<knome> and let them set up SSL there
<knome> as requested
<knome> then just move the tracker over the -us server
<knome> and let dust settle
<ochosi> ok, sounds ok to me
 * pleia2 wanders over to airplane
<knome> have fun flying
<ochosi> +1
<knome> pleia2, once you're around, we'll need sqlite3 for php..
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> ochosi: upowerd crash coming back from lock, need that reported? 
<davmor2> Hey xubuntu people, are you guys taking part in the testing of 14.04.3? If so who is the best person to talk to please
<knome> davmor2, flocculant 
<davmor2> flocculant: ah hello :)
<davmor2> knome: thanks
<knome> no problemo
<davmor2> flocculant: you might want to join #ubuntu-release incase there are any critical issues you discover.
<flocculant> davmor2: yep - I know about -release and will be sure to if there's a need. Actually only got 2 testers on .3 and not got any critical issues that have been seen or reported 
<jarnos> how can you log in to sessi
<davmor2> flocculant: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/344/builds is the current 14.04.3 are they reporting their findings to daily still?
<flocculant> 'they' are me and one other team member - he's US time and probably hasn't seen rebuild 
<jarnos> ..on after resume from suspend to RAM in the live session of the development xubuntu?
<flocculant> jarnos: not sure - never seen the need to suspend a live session 
<davmor2> flocculant: ah okay cool :)
<flocculant> just about to check them actually 
<flocculant> davmor2: they'll be marked on the tracker one way or the other tomorrow :)
<flocculant> keep getting zsync issues ... 
<davmor2> flocculant: awesome thanks 
<davmor2> flocculant: the guy on ubuntu-gnome is saying the same
<jarnos> flocculant, I know neither username nor password.
<flocculant> jarnos: try xubuntu or Xubuntu and no password
<flocculant> davmor2: that's zsyncing wily daily 
<jarnos> flocculant, thanks
<flocculant> davmor2: our cdbuild log has for the last 2 days had "ssh: connect to host goldenapple.canonical.com port 22: Connection timed out" 
<flocculant> anyway - finished zsync now without error 
<ObrienDave> \o/
<davmor2> flocculant: goldenapple appears to be dead so if you get that one it times out IS is informed so hopefully this will go away soonish
<flocculant> davmor2: ok :)
<ochosi> flocculant: upowerd crashes? i guess yeah, we should report that. not sure it's really our fault though
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - I'll let apport do it's thing then 
<flocculant> ochosi: should have got a complete set of vm tests done shortly - I'll manage a couple of hardware ones by the morning - then not much more I can do for trusty .3 
<ochosi> nice, thanks flocculant 
<ochosi> sorry i haven't been able to test much myself, am usually out of the house during the day
<flocculant> yep I know :)
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello
<ochosi> hey
<ochosi> about to go to bed though
<ochosi> so sorta "hi and bye" :)
<knome> heh
<knome> night ochosi 
<ochosi> LO 5.0 is available for testing from their PPA
<ochosi> so all of those who use the iconset, please upgrade
<ochosi> i've pushed a first fix to it today
<ochosi> also, i'll be away all day tomorrow
<ochosi> so hf everyone!
<knome> you too
<ochosi> ty
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-06
<jjfrv8> flocculant, I've run into an issue with Trusty image testing tonight. I zsynced my downloads from yesterday and burned them to flash drives...
<jjfrv8> when I booted my test machine with them, I only got a "USB" choice, not a "UEFI-USB" choice for them. I didn't think much of it, then installed okay, but after a reboot, grub was unhappy...
<jjfrv8> I ran boot-repair on the machine and that said the image on sdax was not EFI and it had to abort. So I thought I would download a full image instead of zsyncing, but it looks like they've been pulled for the day.
<jjfrv8> So I'm not sure if there's a problem with the image, zsync or me, but I'm going to have to give up for the night. :(
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I've installed LO 5.0 from the ppa. What should I be looking out for with the icons?
<ochosi> jjfrv8, any icons that arent elementary yet
<pleia2> knome: Setting up sqlite3 (3.8.2-1ubuntu2.1) ...
<pleia2> all done
 * pleia2 sleeps now
<flocculant> jjfrv8: thanks - I didn't get any problems here with flash drive (other than which tool is actually going to work) 
<flocculant> even if there is one - not sure we'd be fixing it 
<flocculant> ochosi: grabbed the LO ppa
<flocculant> also - we have jjfrv8 and my tests on trusty for vm's and hardware
<flocculant> doesn't look like we'll get more - so we can mark whenever
<flocculant> bluesabre: ^^
<flocculant> bbl
<davmor2> You guys rock thanks for the testing :)
<knome> pleia2, sorry, i obviously should have been less ambiguous, i need sqlite3 for php, i guess that's php5-sqlite. sorry! (and no rush, i'm glad you are getting a good sleep :))
<Unit193> Good sleep++
<knome> i slept surprisingly well too
<bluesabre> flocculant: great, do you need me to mark it, or do you have it?
<flocculant> bluesabre: I can do that - wasn't in a rush, just in case we get anymore results
<flocculant> just wanted to double check neither of you two had an issue with doing that with only 2 people reporting 
<bluesabre> flocculant: it's fine, thanks
<flocculant> ok - well I'll wait as long as possible to do that 
<flocculant> it caught me on the hop a bit ... 
<bluesabre> flocculant: indeed, though always good to hit the ground running I suppose :)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<pleia2> knome: ok, php5-sqlite is installed now too
<jjfrv8> flocculant, just an fyi, I downloaded the full image again this morning and the flash drive was recognized as UEFI. Installed and booted okay.
<flocculant> jjfrv8: thanks :)
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - marked them ready now
<asantos3> hi, can I post some problems I'm having with an update here?
<flocculant> asantos3: with a dev issue? if not then #xubuntu is the support channel
<asantos3> flocculant, dunno if I would consider an dev issue, I'm having fps drops following an update
<flocculant> if it's the issue you were talking about yesterday then #xubuntu is the right place
<asantos3> ok, thanks
<flocculant> welcome
<knome> pleia2, thanks and sorry again
<knome> ochosi, hmm, when i turn on the PC and get a warning notification about battery state in the login screen, it's unstyled
<knome> ochosi, known?
<knome> flocculant, i wonder what "Add to iso tracker and xubuntu core product via cdimage" means in english
<ochosi> knome: not knwon to me at least
<ochosi> i wonder what notification system would be running there
<ochosi> what does it look like?
<ochosi> good ol yellow? :)
<flocculant> knome: randomly means when the core things finished to move it from where it is so it's in with 32/64 bit
<ochosi> flocculant: ty for the LO testing, my focus is still mainly on writer, but calc should be usable too
<flocculant> yep - I do use write - just not as often 
<knome> ochosi, plain gtk, very gray
<knome> flocculant, well i still don't understand completely... but i guess as long as you do... :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> mostly I've not got any real clue what anyone else is doing with it in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-w-development
<knome> "When core is on cdimage, migrate the core product as a testsuite" ?
<knome> *to a
<knome> is that what you are after?
<flocculant> knome: if it means you stop worrying - call it what you like :p
<knome> lol
<Bronze> Hello all
<knome> i'm just trying to get a hold of what you are blocked to do :
<knome> :D
<flocculant> hah
<knome> but yeah, i think i get it now - if you need help when you need to do that, feel free to poke me
<knome> Guest14375, hello
<flocculant> knome: I will - not sure I have perms
<knome> you should, but if you don't... i do
<Guest14375> If I am intruding please let me know, but is this where I can go to ask questions about the development?
<knome> Guest14375, not at all intruding, and yes, you are in the right place
<knome> welcome
<Unit193> Unless you mean the development of firefox, libreoffice, or something like that.
<Guest14375> No, no. LOL. I have a HP Stream 11 and have been using Xubuntu for a while. Best Flavor so far. However, I needed to run some commands and install this and that to get it working beautifully.
<Guest14375> I was wondering how to fold that into the iso so others could download it and it run right out of the box. Primarily the wifi issue
<knome> i would encourage you to write instructions on how to do it instead of rolling your own ISO for that purpose
<knome> well, unless it's for internal use and you know you will do it a hundred times...
<Guest14375> Okay, I have uploaded a video on YouTube and hopefully many will find it helpful in that regards.
<knome> ...but even then you could use puppet or something like that to get it right
<Guest14375> Beautiful work by the way. It handles pretty much anything I throw at it. Some photo and video overbearing websites can't do well. But, hey. No biggy
<knome> thanks, the feedback will definitely find its way to the developers on this channel
<Guest14375> Do you guys know who all manages the Facebook page?
<knome> Guest14375, pleia2 and holstein
<Guest14375> Just one complaint... There isn't a lot of interaction with users on that page. Is there a purpose for that?
<knome> lack of resources/time really
<Guest14375> I work from home, could I be of much use to the team?
<knome> we would love to interact more with our users everywhere and do a lot more cool things, but we are all volunteers
<knome> definitely!
<Guest14375> Sorry, who said definitely... Your name doesn't appear in my window
<knome> i did :)
<Guest14375> SMH... Long day
<Guest14375> LOL
<knome> i guess your client just doesn't show the nick if the same person sends two lines in a row to the channel
<knome> like this
<Guest14375> Yep
<Guest14375> I am using kiwi
<Guest14375> New to it
<knome> anyway, if you can, hang out in this channel - pleia2 will surely get back to you (with all these pings) and tell how you can help
<Guest14375> Sure. Thanks
<knome> i think she is conferencing in peru (ubunconla) right now, so i don't know about the schedules
<Guest14375> No problem. Certainly not in a rush.
<knome> great, thanks for the interest!
<Guest14375> Just curious, other than answering my 10 million questions... What do you do with the team?
<Guest14375> within*
<knome> well... that's a good question
<knome> i'm the website lead, and the former project lead
<knome> i do pretty much everything
<knome> and use a lot of time in IRC too.
<Guest14375> Honor to meet you. Bronze by the way... But someone already registered that name
<knome> nice to meet you too
<knome> just figure out another name :)
<Guest14375> I will leave this open, but I have to go to a parent/teacher conference. I am sure it will time, but anyhoo
<Guest14375> BRB
<knome> hf
<flocculant> night all
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello sean
<bluesabre> hiya pasi
<knome> what's up today?
<bluesabre> menulibre, lo-style-elementary, maybe catfish
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> knome: want to do a very small of amount of translating?
<knome> can do 
<bluesabre> strings 105 and 106 https://translations.launchpad.net/menulibre/master/+pots/menulibre/fi/+translate?show=untranslated
<knome> and done
<bluesabre> thanks :)
<knome> np
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-07
<asantos3> hi
<asantos3> the links for ubuntu 14.04 aren't working http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/
<asantos3> xubuntu*
<Unit193> A couple are outdated, JP seems gone.
<Unit193> knome: â
 * Unit193 runs linkcheck.
<knome> aha. even if we just added the jp links..
<knome> is there any active one in the full list?
<knome> i'm going to bed in the next 10, but can do small changes before that
<knome> toothbrushing ->
<Unit193> http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/trusty/release/desktop/xubuntu-14.04.2-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent and i386 too, http://ftp.riken.jp/Linux/ubuntu-iso/CDs-Xubuntu/*/release/
<knome> so what to replace the japan mirror with?
<knome> download pages updated with .3 and another .jp mirror
<knome> good night!
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/xubuntu-default-settings/lightdm-config/+merge/267280
<bluesabre> Unit193: yup, just got the email about it
<bluesabre> since its coming from him, must be right
<Unit193> Figured you'd have other places to fix it too.
<bluesabre> probably
<bluesabre> I think we might just have to add Provides: libreoffice-style to lo-style-elementary
<bluesabre> suppose I should also add it to our seed :)
<knome> flocculant, remind me to reply to that thread if i haven't done so in a few days
<flocculant> ok
<bluesabre> flocculant: I'll be releasing a new menulibre this weekend (2.0.7).  It'll likely land in wily early next week and trickle down to trusty eventually
<bluesabre> if you want to take an early peek, https://launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/+archive/ubuntu/daily should have the final product (barring any unforeseen bugs)
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - anything you want people to look at particularly?
<bluesabre> if you want to check any of the bug fixes or the root lockout... http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/menulibre/master/revision/290#NEWS
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<knome> pleia2, when you have time, i'll need php5-xmlrpc installed if we decide to pull data from the qa tracker
<pleia2> knome: done
<knome> pleia2, thanks again :)
<knome> shall we poke IS soon?
<knome> the tracker is ready to go on that server
<pleia2> I'd say so :)
<knome> just need the DNS set up
<pleia2> tracker.x.o is ok name?
<knome> i would call it "developers.xubuntu.org" because we might end up running a wiki there...
<pleia2> if we go the wiki direction, we should probably find it a new home :)
<knome> i guess whatever you fancy
<pleia2> tracker is easy to run anywhere, might want to keep it mobile with its own name
<knome> tracker.xubuntu.org is good for now too
<knome> easy and easy ;)
<pleia2> so yeah, send to dns gods
<knome> are you on it or shall i?
<pleia2> best you do
<knome> ok, i will add you as a requestor as usually
<pleia2> k
<knome> sent RT ticket
<knome> ochosi, ping too, we soon have the tracker set up at tracker.xubuntu.org
<pleia2> knome: wow, you were right about the quick replies for these
<knome> :)
<pleia2> shiny :)
<knome> i believe something like "ok, we can trust knome now" has happened
<knome> because really, it doesn't seem like the other items are that quickly resolved
<knome> and yep, it even works!
<pleia2> yep!
<knome> ochosi, now we can let dpm blog about it.
<bluesabre> knome, pleia2 awesome!
<knome> ochosi, you should be getting the reminder mail in a new format tonight
<knome> bluesabre, fancy testing reminder mails about your open work items from the traker?
<knome> +c
<knome> pleia2, ^ ?
<pleia2> nah
<knome> oki ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-08
<bluesabre> knome: I'd be fine for testing that
<bluesabre> just finished watching a political debate
<bluesabre> nothing more to say about that
<bluesabre> ;)
<Unit193> "I'm sorry"
<bluesabre> "So sorry"
<astraljava> Since when have politicians apologized for anything?
<Unit193> Since it serves them?
<ochosi> g'day everyone
<flocculant> morning ochosi 
<flocculant> nice to see the tracker in a new home 
<ochosi> yup, gotta check it out :)
<flocculant> it looks ... the same :p
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah, not surprised about that
<ochosi> knome, pleia2: nice work!
<ochosi> i'll let dpm know when he's around again
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> and +1 to knome and pleia2 :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: any reason to go from libreoffice-style-elementary to lo-style-elementary as a package name? (or did i misunderstand that there)
<knome> ochosi, please keep me in the loop :)
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> so the wiki is postponed for now i presume?
<knome> yes
<knome> we don't even use the wiki too much, so..
<ochosi> frankly, that's partly because is so unusably slow though
<ochosi> could imagine we'd use it more if it were more responsive and integrated
<flocculant> the wiki doesn't use a server - it's kept in a treacle mine
<ochosi> :>
<knome> ochosi, i don't know... i personally wouldn't have many uses for the wiki
<knome> i guess if you would, then it'd be lovely to hear what those use cases would be
<Unit193> !info libreoffice-style-elementary wily
<ubottu> Package libreoffice-style-elementary does not exist in wily
<knome> flocculant, i was thinking (very preliminary) if a compact list of new uploads in, say, the xubuntu-staging PPA, would help figuring out what needs to be tested
<knome> flocculant, another thing could be new uploads in the archive of a predefined list of packages
<ochosi> that sounds useful
<knome> which one?
<ochosi> both actually, lists of uploads
<knome> the former one should be relatively easy to grab
<knome> the latter...
<knome> well, you can guess
<knome> ochosi, did you get a mail notification last night?
<ochosi> i did
<knome> ok, good
<ochosi> let me compare them quickly
<knome> that came from the new server too
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> that's nicer
<ochosi> +1 on the new format
<knome> good good
 * knome messes around with the tracker db
<knome> don't worry if something seems to break, it'll likely get fixed in a minute
<ochosi> so the plan is still to integrate the tracker with the header of the website?
<knome> not as is
<ochosi> or is that also postponed
<knome> but in some way, sure
<ochosi> ok
<knome> it's postponed until i have the time and motivation for it
<ochosi> sure
<knome> i'm trying to make the tracker a bit more flexible for the w->w+1 migration already
<ochosi> sweet
<flocculant> knome: sounds like a good idea - especially if it's easy for testers to get at 
<flocculant> and both 
<knome> flocculant, i was thinking for another tab in the tracker
<flocculant> right
<knome> that is easy enough to access
<flocculant> yep for sure
<flocculant> I can see the second being more lengthy ... 
<knome> yep
<knome> well,
<knome> the idea would be to sort that by date ideally
<knome> so you could get an idea of the newest uploads quickly
<knome> maybe grouped by week
<flocculant> but if package foo affects (as an example) mousepad - we really only need to mention mousepad I guess
<knome> per-day granularity is likely too much
<flocculant> yep
<knome> well, knowing whatever foo or sth might affect is harder to figure out again
<flocculant> would it not be a depends ?
<knome> basically we'd need to follow *all* of the dependencies if we wanted to track what can affect this or that
<knome> sure, but to figure that out mechanically...
<flocculant> yea - which I suspect is what 
<flocculant> knome> the latter...
<flocculant> <knome> well, you can guess
<knome> depends can be multiple level deep
<flocculant> :)
<knome> that's "too much" to do really
<flocculant> right
<knome> and i don't know how many libraries we want to track
<flocculant> not hundreds .. 
<knome> for example, a new gtk upload can definitely break our stuff
<knome> but that's not something we "need" to track
<knome> because something that is obviously broken is reported anyway
<flocculant> yea
<knome> we basically only want to notify people of changes WE did
<knome> so actually, just checking if there are changes in mousepad is much better than seeing if there are changes in its dependencies anyway
<knome> unless the dependency is a core xfce lib or sth, which we might want to track
<knome> (because changes in that are very relevant to us)
<flocculant> basically - if this tab is more than a page - people are going to soon start ignoring it
<knome> of course
<flocculant> not meaning 'us' 
<knome> and that's why i said it should be ideally ordered by date
<knome> eg. it can be 3 pages long, but the most relevant information is at the top
<knome> so people can dig as deep as they have motivation
<knome> (not that i want to make it 3 pages long...)
<flocculant> :)
<knome> probably something like this https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/xfce412.html but even less scary looking...
<flocculant> yea
<knome> i'm wondering how easy it is to get the changelog entries for the packages
<flocculant> well 
<knome> to potentially show them in the tracker
<flocculant> not when it's a ppa
<knome> i mean .deb changelogs
<flocculant> oh right
<knome> they are hand-crafted anyway, so it's not an information overload
<knome> or when it is, it's a major update
<knome> and then it should be...
<flocculant> what would make sense would be - mousepad gets listed and could be clicked (like you have expand on spec in tracker) so you can see changelog if you want to
<flocculant> testers probably would just want to know to look at mousepad 
<knome> yes, something like that
<knome> well, i don't think it's a bad direction that testers know to look at changelogs
<knome> i just think currently it's "too hard" to get to them
<knome> so they don't do it
<knome> but if we told:
<knome> these are new uploads in the last week
<flocculant> no - totally agree - but at the moment what would be good would be a way to get simple info to them
<knome> there are the changes made in them, look specifically for bugs related to them
<flocculant> just so we can point them 'somewhere' 
<knome> then i would think testers would be definitely more likely to do exactly that
<knome> it would be a great improvement over "i ran mousepad and typed qwerty"
<knome> because what's the use of testing/QA if new features aren't the focus
<knome> (ok ok, there are benefits for it, but you get my point...)
<flocculant> yep - that's not something I would be likely to disagree with ever :)
<knome> ok, bbl
<knome> hf everybody
<flocculant> tracker appears to have forgotten a whole bunch of stuff 
<bluesabre> ochosi: did not change the package name... so what are you referring to?
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> yeah, wasn't sure
<ochosi> might've misinterpreted "libreoffice-style to lo-style-elementary" from earlier
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<bluesabre> yeah, the longer phrase makes more sense
<bluesabre> "added Provides: libreoffice-style to lo-style-elementary"
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> yeah, it was early and i hadn't had coffee yet ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> also, i hope it's ok i assigned you a catfish bug/patch
<ochosi> also linked it to the tracker
<bluesabre> sure, haven't looked at my email yet
<bluesabre> or really at all for a few days
<ochosi> that's ok
<ochosi> whenever that menulibre release is out and catfish, we'll have several more DONE items on our tracker
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> found a new menulibre bug today, going to fix that and should be able to release
<ochosi> sweet
<ochosi> i guess UI wise menulibre is fairly done now
<ochosi> wanna take a stab at catfish next?
<bluesabre> yeah, still some minor tweaks with 2.1, and yeah, catfish is next
<bluesabre> planning to have that done by next weekend
<bluesabre> today will hopefully be a productive day
<ochosi> nice, i'm around for a bit noow
<ochosi> if you want to tackle something together
<ochosi> could for instance try to prep a POC panel patch for xfpanel-switch
<bluesabre> yeah, if you want to take a look at that
<bluesabre> could also review Noskcaj's sgt-launcher https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging
<ochosi> yeah, i'll start with the panel
<ochosi> iirc there were some concerns Unit193 wanted to see addressed and i'm not sure of their status atm
<ochosi> so i'd rather wait for that to be resolved
<ochosi> would be helpful if these sorts of comments were actually noted in a MR review or something
<ochosi> on irc that just gets lost
<bluesabre> yeah
<flocculant> words 
<flocculant> hi ochosi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<flocculant> having a good day I trust
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> just really really hot here
<flocculant> it's warming up here ready for rain next week 
<bluesabre> it's probably warm... but I've got my USB fan running to not find out
<ochosi> :>
<flocculant> ha ha 
<ochosi> man, glade is really hard to get right only in a text editor
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> easy solution, open text editor and replace XfceTitledDialog with GtkDialog, then open in glade
<bluesabre> ochosi: ^
<ochosi> yeah i know
<ochosi> already done that
<ochosi> odd thing is my patch *should* in theory work
<ochosi> but it just displays an empty prefs dialog
<ochosi> in glade it opens fine with all the content
<bluesabre> nice
<ochosi> building cleanly again...
<ochosi> maybe that'll help
<ochosi> awesome, still the same
<ochosi> bluesabre: wanna take a peek at the patch in case i missed something obvious?
<bluesabre> sure
<ochosi> http://dpaste.com/0YGMDVS
<ochosi> bluesabre: it's a diff ^
<bluesabre> well, the code looks sane enough
<ochosi> for some reason it complains that for panel-switch G_IS_OBJECT fails
<ochosi> (that's the signal connect)
<bluesabre> odd
<ochosi> yeah, i don't really get it
<ochosi> i presume it also doesnt work for you?
<bluesabre> building now
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether i have to install the panel for the dialog to show up correctly
<ochosi> cause i think just running it from the source dir might create problems because it finds no plugins, not even the internal ones
<bluesabre> yes, the panel is very picky about its installation dir
<ochosi> ok weird, now the prefs dialog shows up, but without my button
<ochosi> so i presume it's running the system version after all :/
<ochosi> meh, so i guess i'll have to install on top of my current installation
<ochosi> oh how i like that...
<ochosi> hmpf, alright, that fails
<ochosi> so no idea why it shows up fine in glade but not in IL
<ochosi> RL
<bluesabre> what prefix did you use?
<bluesabre> welp, that's a broken panel
<ochosi>  /usr
 * bluesabre doesn't like working with panel code
<ochosi> yeah, it's not *that* much fun
<ochosi> reminds of the fun times i had with the intelligent hiding code
<bluesabre> fun?
<bluesabre> lies
<ochosi> well, "fun"
<ochosi> anyway, i guess you have no spontaneous idea why that's failing so badly?
<bluesabre> I can't seem to get it working correctly
<bluesabre> I guess drop a g_warning/g_print in there so we can see if it is using that code
<bluesabre> or however we debug the panel
<ochosi> oh hehe
<ochosi> found the problem
<ochosi> and fun
<ochosi> it's working as it should
<ochosi> even closes the panel prefs dialog
<bluesabre> screenshot?
<ochosi> one sec
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/kYcFBBm.png
<ochosi> i was considering to put some icon there
<ochosi> maybe the archive icon
<ochosi> but i'm not sure, "presets" isnt an easy one really
<ochosi> so this is just working, not sure this is the right place/form for the launcher
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> presets might also be the wrong term
<bluesabre> possibly Backup/Restore
<bluesabre> which then archive is correct
<ochosi> backup and restore sounds nice
<ochosi> let's go with that for now
<bluesabre> and somebody suggested moving that button to the dialog actions at the bottom, which might be a good place
<bluesabre> to the left of the close button?
<ochosi> hm, not sure tbh
<ochosi> i haven't seen any such buttons in the lower buttonbox
<ochosi> it's usually just apply, cancel, close, ok and such
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> so personally i feel it's better kept where it is, at least more or less
<ochosi> but yeah, i admit i'm not sure
<bluesabre> just kind of an odd place to float
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> agreed
<bluesabre> one option is to make panel-switch pluggable, and give it its own tab
<ochosi> bluesabre: http://i.imgur.com/dXL2xDo.png
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> that'd probably be awesome
<ochosi> although...
<ochosi> the prefs dialog would die in fire when loading a config, because of the panel getting killed
<bluesabre> oh yeah
<ochosi> which is why i preemptively close it when launching panel switch atm
<ochosi> ;)
<bluesabre> we could improve the way we load it
<ochosi> this should only show up when xfpanel-switch is found in path now btw
<ochosi> yeah, but that's v1.0
<ochosi> we're still working on something to ship in wily
<ochosi> i'd rather push in this more or less sane patch that can later be improved upon
<bluesabre> I think ultimately we're going to update xfconf via queries, so the panel would basically contract and expand while it runs
<ochosi> and that way ppl can test whether we want this upstream
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> sounds good too
<ochosi> but still, we don't have infinite time until the cycle ends, i just wanted something compact that we can easily ship as a patch on top of xfce4-panel
<ochosi> actually
<bluesabre> sounds good tome
<ochosi> it seems that xfpanel-switch doesn't work when spawned from the panel prefs..
 * ochosi scratches head
<ochosi> but maybe that's because i haven't installed it
<ochosi> xfce4-panel: no process found
<ochosi> xfce4-panel: There is already a running instance
<ochosi> oh, and we direly need ctrl+q and alt+c to close xfpanel-switch. that's sooo annoying :)
<bluesabre> you could also run the path you get instead of the command
<bluesabre> alt+c?
<bluesabre> thats a new one
<bluesabre> I find it annoying that those accelerators aren't done automatically by the toolkit
<ochosi> no, it's just the mnemonic close
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> ok, i have the patch read
<ochosi> y
<ochosi> shall i send it to you so you can add it to the package?
<bluesabre> no hurry, we don't even have panel-switch in wily yet
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> well we could throw it in a PPA for testing?
<bluesabre> we can do that
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> sent
<ochosi> gotta clean the flat now
<bluesabre> k, seeya later ochosi
<ochosi> bluesabre: added another workitem for you for that ;)
<bluesabre> great
<bluesabre> makes it more likely for me to remember it in later today :D
<ochosi> indeed :)
<ochosi> flocculant: that would be something worth testing app-wise btw: xfpanel-switch
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh, do we not have that packaged anywhere yet..?
<ochosi> anyway, would be good if all of that could go into -staging
<bluesabre> yeah, will try to get that done today
<bluesabre> getting my list together now
<flocculant> bluesabre seems to be getting the h and l and letter order mixed up ... 
<flocculant> ochosi: and yea for sure - had just read all ^^ and come to the same conclusion :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: hm?
<flocculant> bbl 
<bluesabre> I think I'll go ahead and set us up with the gtk2 version just to be safe here, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mate-meta/+bug/1473952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1473952 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Choose preferred pinentry method" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> Unit193: poke
<bluesabre> since I never seem to remember the difference...
<bluesabre> in the seed, we have
<bluesabre>  * (libpam-gnome-keyring)
<bluesabre>  * xdg-utils
<bluesabre> what's the difference with including the parentheses?
<bluesabre> micahg: ^
<krytarik> bluesabre: Depends vs. recommends.
<bluesabre> everybody knows but me
<krytarik> lo
<bluesabre> thanks krytarik!
<krytarik> *lol
<krytarik> Sure.
<bluesabre> krytarik: do you have a core install handy?
<krytarik> Nope.
<bluesabre> alrighty
 * bluesabre grabs a core iso
<knome> gmm, something broke in the tracker
 * knome investigates
<knome> eh, malformed db disk image
<knome> maybe i should migrate to mysql..
<knome> sigh
<bluesabre> :(
<knome> pleia2, once you get back... mind setting me up a mysql user and a database
<knome> there goes one of the "easy to move around" bits
<knome> but maybe it's better this way anyway
<knome> ok, i rebuilt the db
<bluesabre> minor inconvenience
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> not really
<knome> this isn't the first time this happens
<knome> though it's the first time it wasn't a trivial fix
<bluesabre> I haven't worked with sqlite dbs long enough to run into any issues like that
<knome> i'm sure it's something about transactions i'm doing
<knome> ...which are supposed to fight these kind of situations
<knome> D:
<knome> ahh, better
<pleia2> knome: sure, what do you need it for? (so I can name accordingly)
<pleia2> ah, replacing sqlite?
<knome> yeah...
<knome> one failure enough :(
<ochosi> evening all
<flocculant> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hey flocculant, how're things?
<flocculant> good here :)
<flocculant> you?
<flocculant> ochosi: which ppa is xfpanel switch going to end up in - the dev one? 
<ochosi> doing fine, thanks for asking
<ochosi> i would have guessed staging
<ochosi> because we want to push it to wily
<ochosi> but it depends on bluesabre a bit
<ochosi> personally i think it's ok to ship it, since it's not a critical tool and it's actually hidden in the panel preferences
<flocculant> oh yea - makes sense I guess
<ochosi> but yeah, it could do with a bit more testing and all
<ochosi> so that way it would be ready for the LTs
<ochosi> which would be the ultimate goal, from my pov
<flocculant> well - I definitely don't have a standard panel - so I guess me testing it will be useful
<flocculant> yep - all things point to LTS :)
<ochosi> you can easily test it already
<ochosi> if you want to
<ochosi> the patch for the panel is only for further integration
<flocculant> happy to do that
<ochosi> bzr branch lp:xfpanel-switch 
<ochosi> then ./configure && make && sudo make install
<ochosi> and you're set
<flocculant> ok
<ochosi> then basically save your config
<ochosi> with xfpanel-switch
<ochosi> and then e.g. delete one of your panels
<ochosi> then try to restore
<flocculant> oh - so it's not in the panel config yet :)
<flocculant> ... 
<flocculant> and my random installs strike again lol 
<flocculant> FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/.config/xfce4/panel/launcher-2/14315379361.desktop'
<flocculant> and the Cancel/Save Config dialogue won't let me do anything 
<flocculant> seems it did - but wouldn't close
<flocculant> applied a backup - lost the panel completely 
<flocculant> had to restart it
<flocculant> that's too much thinking for a saturday night
<flocculant> by the way it did almost bring it all back - just missing this launcher it believes is not there 
<flocculant> back tomorrow 
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, that seems to have gone sort of okayish :> (read flocculants test above)
<knome> huh
<knome> great, now all insert/update methods are converted to pdo/mysql
<Unit193> knome: Also, that page is scary looking?
<knome> well, for a new contributor
<knome> me not so much, i'm very much at ease with tabular data anyway
<knome> (but not non-tabular data in html <table>s)
<ochosi> i like how the burndown is growing :>
<knome> yeah, it's supposed to go the other way...
<knome> and fast
<ochosi> really pumping it up lately
<knome> but i guess it proves this is useful to
<knome> *too
<knome> there have always been loads of things that aren't tracked
<knome> because tools suck
<ochosi> i think without the new tracker the incentive to add new workitems would've been quite low
<knome> that ^
<ochosi> so this is definitely a good thing
<ochosi> there are still untracked items, i'm pretty sure about that
<knome> of course
<ochosi> but there are less than before
<knome> but not everything is sane to track
<ochosi> hopefully bluesabre will give us some releases soon, then the burndown will look more optimistic again
<knome> ;)
<knome> oh yeah, the bugs are tracked so that until they are "fix released" they are "inprogress"
<ochosi> btw, i just announced xfpanel-switch on our ML, feel free to socialmedia it (already did g+ myself)
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> several are "fix committed" already
<knome> yep
<knome> so just that you know that it is intentional
<knome> tweeted
<ochosi> ty
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> ochosi, the G+ community says the current LTS version is 14.04.2
<knome> spot the error
<ochosi> it makes sense to wait until the fix is released
<ochosi> aha, hadn't noticed
<knome> (imo, 14.04 would be enough, but whatever)
<ochosi> humm, where does it say that?
<knome> https://plus.google.com/communities/108369189560969273265
<knome> right top boxee
<knome> about this community
<ochosi> sorry, still don't see it, at least not in the g+ community admin interface
<knome> really?
<knome> you need a screenshot?
<knome> the block starts with: Xubuntu is an elegant and easy-to-use operating system. Xubuntu comes with Xfce, which is a stable, light and configurable desktop environment. 
<knome> the blahblah-<p>
<knome> then the versions
<ochosi> i see that part, not the versions
<knome> weird...
<knome> but there it is, right after that and the other paragraph
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/Z7thLBt.png
<knome> that doesn't seem to be it
<ochosi> hmm
<knome> http://www.awesomescreenshot.com/00d54x2med
<knome> that's an ugly view btw, google is really trying hard to make me join g+
<knome> all those bars at the top
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> that's not the same, indeed
<ochosi> i have no admin rights on the community page
<ochosi> only on our "official" xubuntu page
<knome> i don't even know where the section you are seeing comes from
<knome> aha
<ochosi> pleia2 might know who admins the community page
<knome> i might too
<knome> if i dig the wiki hard enough
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Contact/WebAdmins
<knome> so, i think pleia2 knows VERY WELL who admins it
<knome> maybe a bit too well..
<ochosi> right, but that might still only be our g+ acccount, not the community
<knome> aha
<knome> then figure it out, you g+ geeks
<ochosi> :]
<ochosi> i'll wait for pleia2's feedback
<knome> wuss
<knome> :P
<ali1234> there's also "pages" on G+
<pleia2> g+ communities have owners? :)
<pleia2> I'll see if I can figure it out, I might know but forgot
<knome> dunno, who maintains the about block?
<pleia2> ali1234: we maintain the page, not the community
<knome> maybe that should be specified in the wiki
<ali1234> communities certainly have creators yes
<pleia2> oh neat, I am a moderator on the community
<pleia2> this is why you all made me marketing lead, because I know how to social media
<knome> yes yes
<knome> and you're the cutest
<pleia2> :P
<knome> well, traditionally marketing is much more than social media, so...
<pleia2> I'm just a moderator, so I can't update settings
<knome> heh
<ochosi> heh, great :)
<pleia2> nevermind, I found it
<knome> :)
<pleia2> worst interface
 * pleia2 updates to 14.04.3
<knome> our sherlock
<knome> <3
<ochosi> nice work pleia2 :)
<pleia2> I do need to remember/figure out who my co-owner is though here
<pleia2> someone has been updating things, re: 15.04
<knome> mentioned in the wiki?
<pleia2> that's the page, not the community
<pleia2> so I should add it to the wiki, for one
 * pleia2 does that
<pleia2> Internal Server Error
<pleia2> NEVERMIND
<pleia2> you're dead to me, wiki
<ochosi> haha
<pleia2> ok, there it goes
<ochosi> knome thinks we don't need a responsive wiki
<ochosi> ;)
<knome> well, this information could potentially be in the website
<knome> we do not have a lot of data in the wiki
<knome> except some boring meeting logs
<ochosi> yeah, even the meeting times could be there
<knome> the meeting times could be just in the tracker/dev site
<ochosi> i wouldn't mind migrating the leaders and webadmin info to the website tbh
<knome> yep
<ochosi> would also make it feel a bit more official than just the ubuntu wiki page
<pleia2> ok, wiki updated
<ochosi> thanks pleia2 
<pleia2> "In the lower left corner of your communityâs profile information, find the âMembersâ section > click See all."
<pleia2> there are 2000+ members
<pleia2> google why do you hate me
<knome> :D :D
<pleia2> it shows "Moderator" next to my name, so I'm hoping for the same from owner
<knome> maybe.
<pleia2> once 2000+ member pictures load
<knome> just maybe
<knome> pictures are great!
<pleia2> winner! https://plus.google.com/111763375350071107978/posts
<pleia2> thanks Bill
 * pleia2 edits wiki again
 * pleia2 tries to write html in the wiki
<knome> hahah.
<knome> that's the best
<knome> writing with the wrong syntax
<pleia2> I am tired :)
<knome> it's ok, i'm tired as well
<knome> i hate migrating code
<pleia2> I love conferences in foreign lands, but rest would be nice
<knome> mhm
<pleia2> https://www.linkedin.com/grp/home?gid=4058113
<pleia2> our linkedin grou
<pleia2> p
<pleia2> not so much a think anymore maybe
<knome> hah
<knome> "great"
<knome> whatever happened..
<pleia2> why did I even start doing this? D:
<knome> :D
<pleia2> rabbit hole of fixing social media things with terrible interfaces
<pleia2> yeah, the group is gone from my profile too
<knome> re: linkedin, maybe it lost its shine when it became "xubuntu users", eg. not potentially being mistaken for "xubuntu developers"
<knome> people do the weirdest thing to get credit for things they didn't do
<pleia2> Sorry, no results containing all your search terms were found.
<pleia2> xubuntu
<knome> well, tbh, i'm not sad...
<pleia2> nor am I
<knome> the linkedin group had no benefits to us or our users
<pleia2> mostly linkedin groups just spam me
<pleia2> moar wiki edit
<pleia2> and linked to our fb owner's fb page
<knome> :)
<pleia2> should probably go back and link all the lp profiles for our members, but that doesn't just exist in my head so we're safe for now
<knome> lol
<pleia2> we know who everyone else is pretty much, either via -dev mailing list or team
<knome> yep
<knome> yummy :D
<knome> i broke the tracker again
<Unit193> :D
<knome> ok, now for some data migration... sigh
<Unit193> Esh, not as fun there.
<knome> nope, none of this is fun
<knome> but the db being in mysql is actually funnier than being in sqlite
<knome> in many ways...
<Unit193> So, one thing I can think of is that one may not know what's changed since last looking, which could mean the person needs to skim over everything.
<knome> right, i'm looking to create some kind of "changelog"
<knome> eg. mark items in a list when they get marked "DONE"
<knome> per date, of course
<knome> but i'm not sure if that helps
<knome> i guess you don't really need to know what has changed
<knome> http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/unit193+teams
<knome> this is important for you
<knome> you really know your own work items
<knome> so... yeah
<knome> people shouldn't add new things to you without asking anyway
<knome> and for the team items... well, i guess it would be nice to see "new items free to be taken" but meh
<knome> since it's all really just one big blob of text, it's not the nicest thing to produce
<Unit193> (Well, considering I don't use it for tracking, technically others are more likely to change mine, yeah.)
<knome> why don't you use it for tracking? / what do you use for tracking?
<knome> hooray! database migration done!
<Unit193> Everything broken?
<knome> no, that means nothing's broken
<knome> but everything was likely broken at least once
<Unit193> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-09
<Unit193> knome: Please to check listadmin.
<knome> which one? :P
<Unit193> floppies on -users, other crap on -devel.
<knome> yeah...
<knome> i've been watching those.
<Unit193> !info listadmin
<ubottu> listadmin (source: listadmin): command line mailman moderator queue manipulation. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.40-4 (wily), package size 31 kB, installed size 124 kB
<knome> nah.
<knome> ok, sleepytime
<knome> nighty!
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> menulibre 2.0.7 released https://launchpad.net/menulibre/+milestone/2.0.7
<Unit193> Logan: Not alive right?
<Logan> hi
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> Care to sync virtualbox-ext-pack from exp?
<Logan> sure
<Unit193> Yey!
<Unit193> Danke.
<Logan> bitte'
<bluesabre> oh hey Unit193 
<bluesabre> safe to assume pinentry-gtk2 needs to be in core?
<Unit193> bluesabre: pinentry-gnome3 is pulled in now.
<Unit193> Are we switching to -gtk2?
<bluesabre> it seemed like that might be preferable, or do we care?
<Unit193>   * Temporarily (until Debian bug #791411 is fixed) allow other pinentry
<Unit193>     methods to satisfy our dependency.
<ubottu> Debian bug 791411 in calibre-bin "calibre-bin: Calibre disappears" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/791411
<Unit193> If we can, I'd say -gtk2 yeah.
<bluesabre> I'll go ahead and swap that in tomorrow.  While xfce is predominantly gtk2, I think we'd be better with that
<Unit193> I love the GNOME response: No, we want pinentry-gnome3 for GNOME, since only that provides a proper
<Unit193> UI/replacement for the builtin prompter.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: If you want -gnome3, then do nothing.  If you want gtk2, then add that.
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> I got that
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> (Recommends of course, if you do. :P )
<Unit193> OK, great.
<bluesabre> mhm
<bluesabre> ochosi: xfpanel-switch in -staging, experimental panel building in my ppa https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/experimental
<bluesabre> going to test it in the morning with a vm
<bluesabre> installing the panel from today messed all sorts of things up
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> tired
<bluesabre> night all
<Unit193> G'night.
<Logan> Unit193: it's now in the new queue
<knome> pleia2, feel free to drop sqlite stuff from the server, it's not needed any more
<knome> now i just need to figure out why the new cron stuff isn't running :D
<knome> oh, right...
 * knome facepalms
<Unit193> chronic is handy.
<knome> no, it's a fail in includes
<knome> i'm trying to include a file that doesn't exist...
<knome> now it works nicely again
<bluesabre> ochosi: did you send the latest version of the patch after your "aha" moment?
<bluesabre> (doesn't seem to be working for me)
<bluesabre> also of note... http://i.imgur.com/xgt0QWk.png
<bluesabre> probably related, http://paste.ubuntu.com/12038986/
<knome> heh, there's something fishy going on
<knome> i export the flyers as pdf
<knome> and the a4 with text rendered as paths is 1.7MB while all the other exports are 650kBish
<knome> yes, i also checked the partial exports, they are all "in line", no weird things there
<bluesabre> sounds fun
<knome> yep
<knome> hah
<knome> changing the pdf compiling lib doesn't help
 * knome shrugs
<bluesabre> pffffffff
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> pdfffffffff
<knome> hah
<knome> i guess i could dump raw pdf output to files
<knome> but meh
<knome> really...
<flocculant> afternoon
<knome> hello flocculant 
<flocculant> hi knome 
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :) just looking at ppa:bluesabre/experimental for panel 
<bluesabre> flocculant: don't use that one
<bluesabre> it seems to be dead in the water
<flocculant> ok :D
<bluesabre> ochosi: poke
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> tried again this morning with the backup dooby - still get errors about things that aren't there - but which are 
<flocculant> also the close/save etc dialogues appear a bit dodgy here 
<bluesabre> those are "normal" gtk3 dialogs
<knome> aka dodgy
<bluesabre> can you paste the errors you're getting?
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> when I say dodgy I mean - they don't appear to work :p
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> normal gtk3 to some degree ;)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> http://pastebin.com/uga4BfUT
<flocculant> see FIleNotFoundErrror - then see it in the last command 
<knome> if you people just keep adding new work items, we'll never "get there"!
<bluesabre> I'm trying to not add new ones
<bluesabre> aha
<bluesabre> flocculant: I see the issue
<bluesabre> /.config/xfce4/panel/launcher-2/14391034521.desktop
<bluesabre> that does not exist
<bluesabre> ~/.config/xfce4/panel/launcher-2/14391034521.desktop
<bluesabre> does
<bluesabre> right?
<flocculant> ... didn't see the missing ~ 
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I'll look into fixing that shortly
<flocculant> ok 
<bluesabre> trying to kill off tasks today
<flocculant> seems to be working - more or less now too 
<bluesabre> knome: is there anything particularly "wrong" about rearranging the work items on the blueprint?
<bluesabre> like, into TODO, INPROGRESS, BLOCKED, DONE, POSTPONED
<flocculant> small point - Save config button - dialogue - save config button for new panel - once you're finished - there's not a way to close that - other than X
<flocculant> also Cancel - and I would expect that dialogue to close for me
<bluesabre> yeah, there's probably tons more usability issues with that app
<bluesabre> pushed it out quickly
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll pay about with it a make a list of what I see that seems odd
<flocculant> a/pay/play
<flocculant> s even 
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks!
<bluesabre> not going to get to xfce4-keyboard-overlay this cycle... if ever
<flocculant> uninstalled the panel switch from yesterday - installed the one from staging
<flocculant> bluesabre: is that better to use than the bzr method ochosi pointed at? 
<knome> bluesabre, no, that would likely be a better order anyway
<knome> bluesabre, would you like the email reminders?
<bluesabre> knome: yes please
<knome> daily or weekly?
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, I just hadn't packaged it until last night
<bluesabre> knome: daily please
<knome> bluesabre, ok, you're set up!
<knome> bluesabre, and the status order should now be what you proposed
<bluesabre> knome, cool, thanks
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - just sorting a mail for testers
<knome> flocculant, you fancy reminder emails?
<flocculant> not currently - I'm on top of blueprint 
<knome> ok ;)
<flocculant> or at least know what's there :D
<knome> just poke me if you need them later
<flocculant> knome: does the mail just go for things not started? 
<knome> it sends a list of all your (not your teams') work items that are TODO, INPROGRESS or BLOCKED
<flocculant> mmk
<knome> how i see it, it's not just a nag about "get these done", it's also a reminder to close the open work items
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> knome: thanks for the new order, I was actually suggesting rearranging the blueprint itself around (for dev), that won't break anything, right?
<knome> ahhh
<knome> no, not at all
<bluesabre> cool
<knome> fwiw, it's just a blob of text that is parsed by the tracker
<knome> fortunately, LP does the nagging about wrong syntax
<knome> so i can just take it, split it into lines and then to db columns
<bluesabre> cool
<knome> (yeah, since it's a blob, every time i'm pulling it, i'm removing the old rows and adding the new ones...)
<bluesabre> much cleaner, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-w-development
 * knome shrugs
<knome> tbh, with the new tracker, i barely even look at the LP work item boxes
<knome> i just go edit it there
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> the new tracker is super nice
 * knome bows
<knome> i'm happy it's useful for other people too
<bluesabre> I've been motivated by it and been trying to get things done
<knome> haha, yes, that's what the rationale for the burndown is ;)
<flocculant> knome: reminder to reply to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-August/010843.html
<knome> flocculant, thanks
<knome> i'll go do that now
<bluesabre> bbiab, gotta go get groceries
<flocculant> bluesabre: cya another day if I've wandered off
<knome> flocculant, ok, replied
<knome> now, lunch-dinner
<flocculant> good reminder - I'm ravenous 
<flocculant> knome: thanks for reply
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - if I could have the daily image mail sociall mediaed that'd be good :)
<knome> tweeted
<knome> hmph, the status for the bug entries isn't shown
<knome> i'll look at that later today or tomorrow
<knome> i'm off
<knome> hf and ttyl
<bluesabre> seeya knome
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1473952 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1473952 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Choose preferred pinentry method" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> knome: and yeah, the tracker will look even nicer when fixed bugs are crossed off :)
<bluesabre> almost there... today's image has elementary and human libreoffice themes
<bluesabre> yesterday we also had galaxy
<bluesabre> elementary is default, so we're doing pretty well there
<bluesabre> suppose the next step is getting to be an alternative on the libreoffice packages
<pleia2> knome: that was quick :) removing sqlite3 stuff now
<pleia2> woo, and tracker still works
<bluesabre> :D
<pleia2> flocculant: fb and g+ done
<pleia2> knome: I'm going to remove the linkedin link from the website
<Unit193> bluesabre: \o/
<flocculant> pleia2: much obliged
<ochosi> bluesabre: that looks like fun. actually i sent you the last version, after my a-ha moment, the one that worked for me.
<ochosi> bluesabre: also, i built my patch on xfce4-panel git master, maybe that's part of the problem
<ochosi> bbl
<pleia2> tracker site makes me happy :)
<knome> pleia2, yep, go ahead
<ochosi> pleia2: +1
<knome> hhheeey, now bugs can be WIP/DONE in tracker
 * knome went and fixed a minor bug
<ochosi> burndown is looking better again
<knome> yep
<ochosi> bluesabre: maybe you can re-try my patch with git master in your wily vbox
<ochosi> otherwise i can also look at the panel patches we ship
<ochosi> knome: i'm not sure how to make sense of that yet or how to present it, but linking up workitems to deadlines would be nice
<ochosi> like everything in -artwork > UIF
<ochosi> and some things in -dev > FF
<knome> right...
<ochosi> maybe in terms of email reminders
<knome> but if it's just for the email reminders, then i'm not sure if it's worth it to figure that out
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> true that
<ochosi> bbabl
<knome> ok, there's a bit wiser algorithm for bug status assignment
<knome> 1) if statuses for all bugs are 'Fix Released', the status is 'DONE'
<knome> 2) if status for *any* bug is 'Fix Released', 'Fix Committed', or 'In Progress', the status is 'INPROGRESS'
<knome> 3) if neither of the above statements are true, the status is 'TODO'
<knome> (eg. triaged bugs do not count...)
<ochosi> sounds good to me
<knome> the rationale for requiring 'Fix Released' for all tasks/linked items is that we care about upstream too
<knome> though i think bug watches aren't in this task list
<knome> and i don't think it still works completely
<knome> but i'll look into it, and that's my goal anyway
<knome> hmm right, there was some weird glitch
<knome> it works now without code changes, as i expected
<knome> so, for posterity
<knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/+bug/1313682
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1313682 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "Can't hide entries sourced from /usr/share/applications/kde4/" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<knome> is "INPROGRESS"
<knome> another one:
<knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1437180
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1437180 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Desktop Icons show on the install only desktop" [Medium,Triaged]
<knome> is "TODO"
<knome> ochosi, how should we handle "Opinion", "Invalid", and "Won't Fix"?
<knome> to me it would make sense to ignore those, eg. if there's a bug with 2 tasks; one is fix released and another is any of those, then it should be 'DONE', right?
 * ochosi is a little distracted by having to kill mosquitos
<ochosi> invalid/wontfix > done imo
<ochosi> opinion feels more open
<knome> really?
<knome> "Doesn't fit with the project, but can be discussed."
<knome> and yeah
<knome> if there are only invalid/wontfix statuses, should the bug just not be listed at all?
<ochosi> well invalid and wontfix don't sound like "can be discussed"
<knome> (i don't exactly know why we would link bugs like that, but...)
<ochosi> we can also just unlink those
<knome> heh
<knome> now they show up as "TODO"
<ochosi> but yeah, you could take them out of the equation
<knome> it's easy enough
<ochosi> to some extent, keeping them linked let's us remember what we tackled / touched per cycle
<ochosi> so that's not totally useless
<ochosi> but showing up as TODO is
<knome> ok, those are handled now
<knome> not that we have any...
<knome> i'll keep "opinion" handling as "new" then
<knome> eg. no difference
<ochosi> k
<knome> isn't that what you wanted?
<ochosi> i'm ok with that
<knome> well, i thought that was what you wanted
<knome> you didn't want them to be not visible
<knome> what else would they be?
<ochosi> it's a bit too hot here to really *know* what i *want* ;)
<knome> if there are only opinion statuses (considering wontfix and invalid aren't counted here any more), should be 'BLOCKED' ?
<knome> i don't know, this starts going very meta
<ochosi> heh, indeed
<ochosi> i'm not even sure "opinion" is a very useful status as it is
<knome> me neither
<knome> maybe it's a consolation status when you want to say "wontfix", but want to be nice
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> off to bed, nighty
<ochosi> night knome 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-08
<Unit193> bluesabre: Is gtk-theme-config supposed to work on GTK3?
<bluesabre> Unit193: supposed to, yes, but it hasn't been updated for the constant gtk3 updates
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre: yeah, for gtk3.20 it most definitely needs a big update. probably also some smaller ones for versions before
<flocculant> morning ochosi :)
<ochosi> morning flocculant 
<Unit193> ochosi: Yes, broken in Xeni.
<flocculant> ochosi: did you get theme uploaded? 
<Unit193> flocculant: It's been uploaded at least
<Unit193> !info greybird-gtk-theme yakkety
<ubottu> greybird-gtk-theme (source: greybird-gtk-theme): grey GTK+ theme from the Shimmer Project. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.18.0+20160720.7b72fea.gtk320-1 (yakkety), package size 497 kB, installed size 3271 kB
<flocculant> Unit193: ok - so almost there then
<flocculant> disconcerting looking at the installer with just words seeming dotted about all over the place :p
<flocculant> s/seeming/seemingly
<flocculant> got until 22nd September before I critically fail it :D
<Unit193> flocculant: Hi.
<flocculant> Unit193: hi :)
<ochosi> the versioning will soon make more sense
<ochosi> sry about that, but the gtk3.20 release isn't done yet (still a few more small fixmes)
<ochosi> also, who wrote that info text
<flocculant> ochosi: not me :p - also you have weeks till the outgoing QA lead explains to the incoming QA lead who to say NoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNo to the rest of team :D
<flocculant> s/who/how 
<ochosi> :)
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - ok - got gtk3.20 updates today, theme is now broken here (using ppa) don't know if that's expected 
 * flocculant was obviously wrong about thinking the ppa theme was ok for the new gtk3 :)
<flocculant> I git pull in my clone of shimmer - don't remember doing anything but grabbing it first time - and used that and still fubar
<flocculant> but I'm probably wrong to do that :p
<ochosi> flocculant: did you pull the gtk3.20 branch of greybird?
<flocculant> *shrug*
<flocculant> I think so :)
<flocculant> I had some *thing* from a few weeks ago - git pull'ed to get it up to date
<flocculant> ochosi: I get so lost with these things ... I just git clone https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird.git and copied it to .themes
<flocculant> rebooted
<flocculant> s/I just/I just redid
<flocculant> not even sure now whether I'm doing the right things lol
<flocculant> ochosi: might be worth catching laney's discussion in -desktop before commenting further here :)
<flocculant> or not - appears to be some unity-greeter discussion
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - must be something odd with what I was doing and also with the ppa version, purged ppa for yakkety now
<flocculant> so it looks kind of how it should, but while I've got 'boxes' now - other things look a bit odd (don't know what's expected anymore )
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/UFWKEn7.png for instance - some lines appear to be thicker than they were
<flocculant> firefox is eww too :)
<ochosi> flocculant: firefox maybe doesn't support gtk3.20 yet (although on xenial i got an update yesterday or so that fixed it). menulibre looks more or less as expected, so that's fine
<flocculant> ochosi: so I assume by 'menulibre looks more or less ...' that the theme's not completely ready ?
<ochosi> it's pretty much ready
<flocculant> or uploaded to repos
<ochosi> little things here or there
<ochosi> but 95% there
<ochosi> and yes, what you see is what you'll get
<flocculant> guess the issue here is I have no idea what's expected to be broken 
<ochosi> so obviously it has been uploaded
<ochosi> thats lucky for you
<ochosi> if it's broken, you'll know it. it looks terrible and is unusable
<flocculant> oh ok - so we've got really broken AND looks 'wrong in places' depending on xenial/yak?
<ochosi> no
<ochosi> xenial always looks fine with greybird
<flocculant> ok
<ochosi> yakkety looks fine as well, only greybird is only 95% ported, so you might notice slight differences (that you'll most likely be able to live with though)
<ochosi> i'm using gtk3.20 on xenial, maybe that's where the confusion comes from
<flocculant> yea - livable with for sure - just boxes or frames  missing in most places
<flocculant> ochosi: aaah - yes that's what is confusing me :)
<flocculant> anyway - back in the morning 
<ochosi> boxes or frames missing where for example?
<ochosi> flocculant: ^
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> nvm then, you can also tell me tomorrow :9
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-09
<flocculant> ochosi: seems to be ok this morning *shrug* 
<ochosi> flocculant: ok then let's forget about it for now :)
<flocculant> ochosi: that was my plan :D
<flocculant> I will over the next few days list things - entirely possible they're expected of course
<pleia2> flocculant: you have a fan :) https://twitter.com/Rocky1138/status/762824554083385344
<flocculant> pleia2: :)
<knome> how does that tweet relate to whether flocculant has a fan or not.. isn't the climate in his house much more appropriate?
<ochosi> yay, someone bisected the intel driver
<Unit193> Finally.
<ochosi> we'll see whether that is reason enough to backport it
<bluesabre> ochosi: hooray!
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-10
<flocculant> I guess we can hope then
<flocculant> bluesabre: so what does bryan quigley's comment on 1568604 actually mean? "this seems like it's still a large amount of the changes in the driver" ?
<Unit193> Sounds like it means no SRU.
<flocculant> that was what I was hoping it not to mean
<flocculant> they'd do it if ubuntu were impacted I'm sure
<flocculant> I guess we should find out exactly what the comment means before getting the hump :)
<Unit193> He narrowed it down, good enough for me.  I thought an archive admin or someone else commented.
<flocculant> only seen comment from Bryan Q 
<flocculant> don't know if anything's been said in irc anywhere though
<bluesabre> flocculant: suppose the next thing we can do is package it up and have folks test it
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-11
<flocculant> bluesabre: guess so - but if they're not going to actually do anything about it - is there any point?
<flocculant> astraljava: also note the discussion above with Unit193 and bluesabre re sru :)
<flocculant> should perhaps have not released 16.04 with it - but heyho we did
<Unit193> See also for me: http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/234/137/5c4.jpg
<astraljava> Ahhhaha :D Well it happens. :) Thanks a bunch!
<flocculant> Unit193: that's the team mascot :p
<astraljava> Unit193: But you seem to be doing great at it, so... :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: if we push for long enough, eventually something will happen
<knome> yeah, i think they'd not want a "we'll publish it in PPA then" either
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: 2020 ... 
<flocculant> will be worth all the effort :p
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: tested and added a comment (with patch) to the intel bug, let's see what happens https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1568604/comments/193
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1568604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Xenial) "Mouse cursor lost when unlocking with Intel graphics" [High,Confirmed]
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-12
<bluesabre> Unit193: I see jbicha added some comments for xfdashboard, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1598503/comments/5, I can go ahead and start making those changes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1598503 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] xfdashboard" [Wishlist,In progress]
<Unit193> bluesabre: Great, I've either been busy or putting that off. >_>
<bluesabre> Unit193: np :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: would you like to review? https://git.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+git/xfdashboard/commit/?id=d2ca4649c22724ae0248c75413e43d85664b455c - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1598503/comments/5
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1598503 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] xfdashboard" [Wishlist,In progress]
<Unit193> Wait, I actually manually put that in the wrong install?  How late was that...
<Unit193> bluesabre: Don't override dh_auto_configure.
<Unit193> And for changelog, prefix "Initial release" with [ Unit 193 / Sean Davis ] ?
<bluesabre> certainly
<Unit193> Otherwise, seems like it's missing the symbols.
<bluesabre> oh?
<bluesabre> oh!
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> :D
<Unit193> git add
<bluesabre> yup
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks for doing it. :>
<bluesabre> https://git.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+git/xfdashboard/commit/?id=37d3b614a21514b74fb0a488c6474747938f562e
<bluesabre> Unit193: anything else?
<Unit193> I think that's good, as long as you say so, Mr Technical lead. :---D
 * Unit193 runs.
 * bluesabre dons the hat.
<bluesabre> productive night :)
<Unit193> I saw you active over in #xfce-dev, but wasn't following along.
<bluesabre> fixed this antique, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-331/+bug/1308105
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1308105 in xfce4-settings "Xfce resets TV mode to NULL when power cycled" [Critical,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> (or rather, committed somebody's patch)
<bluesabre> time for bed, bbl
<Unit193> G'night.
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: also might have a try again with tv and 16.04 now that you patched, I see the update in the ppa :)
<flocculant> tjaalton has uploaded the intel thing seemingly :)
<astraljava> Sweet!
<Unit193> !info xfdashboard yakkety
<ubottu> Package xfdashboard does not exist in yakkety
<Unit193> !info xfdashboard yakkety-proposed
<ubottu> Package xfdashboard does not exist in yakkety-proposed
<bluesabre> flocculant, Unit193: woohoo, progress! Glad I stayed up late :)
<Unit193> Oh crap, you're here. :3
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> And of course I mean that in the nice way.  It's still a late night for me...
<bluesabre> sleep is for the other units
<flocculant> !team | meeting in ~30 minutes
<ubottu> meeting in ~30 minutes: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<ochosi> flocculant: thanks for the reminder :)
<flocculant> ochosi: welcome ;)
<flocculant> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 12 20:00:11 2016 UTC.  The chair is flocculant. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<flocculant> that's going to be fun then ...
<flocculant> who's where 
<flocculant> or even here
<krytarik> o/
<flocculant> evening krytarik 
<krytarik> \o/
<knome> /o\
<flocculant> #topic Open action items
<flocculant> we can deal with that waiting to see
<flocculant> bluesabre and flocculant dealt with their action item
<flocculant> #done bluesabre and flocculant to reword the SD to formalize the council.
<flocculant> *shrug*
<flocculant> #topic Announcements and Updates
<flocculant> FeatureFreeze DebianImportFreeze next week, 18th August
<flocculant> #info QA is quiet - pretty normal for post LTS cycle
<flocculant> now I'll just wait around for a bit 
<knome> #info Feature Freeze and Debian Import Freeze next week (18th August)
<ochosi> o/
<ochosi> (sorry iÃm late)
<knome> yes you Ãre
<dkessel> Hey
<ochosi> yes i am
<flocculant> wb ochosi - fashionably late this time, instead of really late :p
<flocculant> ochosi: any updates?
<flocculant> hi dkessel 
<flocculant> #info SRU for Intel lock/cursor bug is progressing afaict
<ochosi> yeah, i saw the SRU progress too
<ochosi> sounded promising
<ochosi> other than that i'm still fighting with getting the greybird release out
<flocculant> :)
<knome> ochosi, i have a question
<ochosi> had some showstoppers, but this time it'll *really* be a matter of days :)
<knome> ochosi, how do you hear with your eyes?
 * flocculant starts counting 
<ochosi> knome: awesome question, thanks :)
<knome> you're welcome
<flocculant> any other updates - if not we can move along
<ochosi> other than that i'll soon set up a physical yakkety machine so i can get some real-world testing done
<knome> move along from me
<ochosi> i think i have no real updates at this moment, other than what i mentioned
<flocculant> k
<ochosi> i'm working a lot on xfce upstream stuff
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> I see that :)
<ochosi> but that'll only be relevant if we decide to ship it all in 16.0
<ochosi> 16.10
<ochosi> probably worth starting a list of gtk3 components or releases we want to ship
<knome> ochosi, i have a question
<knome> ochosi, where would we ship it all?
<flocculant> to an iso I would hope
<knome> or maybe to a distant island...
<flocculant> #topic Discussion items
<flocculant> #subtopic Xubuntu Council
<ochosi> knome: in "16.10" (which is a boat of the length of 16m and width of 10m)
<flocculant> Now that doc change is done we need to open up for nominations, suggest mail out today/tomorrow with nominations ending 26th August, which should be more than enough time. Send vote mail out on 29th August with vote ending on 4th September, meaning council will be in place good 2 weeks prior to the only milestone we're doing this cycle.
<flocculant> ochosi: that's a plank :D
<knome> flocculant, sounds like a good plan to me
<ochosi> flocculant: sure it is :)
<ochosi> and yeah, +1 on the timeline
<ochosi> so the council would be in place before the 16.10 release
<flocculant> ochosi: yea 
<flocculant> well before
<ochosi> had almost given up hope we would make that :)
<flocculant> there's this club - you could have joined it ;)
<flocculant> krytarik dkessel ^^ 
<ochosi> yeah, wasn't around enough to give valuable input so i thought i'd stay out of it not to stall things
<flocculant> ochosi: wrong club - I meant the given up hope one ...
<knome> yeah, flocculant is the chair for life of that club... :P
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> yeah, i'd also hate to disrupt that club then
<flocculant> knome: nope - about another 10 weeks ;)
<knome> (not the benevolent, and not necessarily self-appointed either, but definitely the dictator)
<knome> O:)
<flocculant> akxwi can chair it after that 
<dkessel> Oh, should I point out that I agree? I agree with the plan.
<knome> benches! please give some attention and love to benches too!!
<flocculant> dkessel: well - you're here and in team so yes why not :)
<knome> dkessel, not mandatory, but nice to hear you do :)
<flocculant> anything else on that timeline? 
<knome> flocculant, so shall you take the #action item and get on with it?
<knome> ^ that :P
<knome> or does ochosi want to announce
<knome> since sitting XPL
<ochosi> yeah, i can, but flocculant did all the work..
<knome> isn't that how it's used to go
<flocculant> depends if ochosi can do it today/tomorrow :p
<knome> ochosi, yeah, welcome to the club (the "let others do the work and take the credit")
<flocculant> #action ochosi to announc opening nominations for Xubuntu Council with timeline
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to announc opening nominations for Xubuntu Council with timeline
<knome> announc?
<knome> [:
<knome> (just let it be and end the meeting already...)
<flocculant> yea - I had an e kicking around but lost it
<knome> /kick e
<flocculant> anyone got any other pressing issues to add to the meeting? 
<ochosi> i'll just mail out that sentence from flocculant from the scrollback
<knome> well,
<ochosi> i have probably a little thing
<ochosi> since Unit193 brought it up on -ot
<knome> there's a new finnish youtube channel, where people break stuff with hydraulic *presses*
<knome> that's a very pressing issue
<knome> ochosi, go ahead.
<flocculant> ochosi: subtopic it then :)
<ochosi> knome obviously had sex with a clown today
<knome> well i met a client
<knome> isn't that comparable?
<flocculant> ochosi: not a very funny one ...
<ochosi> #subtopic Development releases of Xfce in 16.10?
<ochosi> flocculant: indeed :)
<ochosi> so basically what i'd like us to discuss briefly is whether anyone considers it a risk shipping 4.13 releases in 16.10
<knome> the risk Unit193 saw was that we wouldn't be able to get into xfce 4.14 before 18.04 fwiw
<ochosi> what i mentioned earlier (putting together a list of components we want in 16.10) was mostly targetted at applications and *maybe* panel plugins
<flocculant> ochosi: given we shipped broken intel and that file manager in an LTS then I don't ;)
<ochosi> but it's true that it would help xfce if we shipped 4.13 early in our "regular" releases
<knome> i don't see a big risk here, but i have a question
<knome> (not a trolly one)
<knome> what else do we want to achieve before the next LTS?
<ochosi> good question...
<knome> or are we simply going to maintaining mode for the next 3 releases?
<knome> and if not, how do the other plans work with the xfce development packages being there?
<ochosi> personally my goal is maintaining the artwork (which seems to be continuous work anyway with the gtk devs breaking stuff) and porting xfce as good as i can
<knome> do we have the manpower to realistically even plan more stuff if we land the new xfce stuff?
<knome> let's forget about the rest of the maintaining stuff we need to do anyway
<ochosi> for xubuntu as a whole i would say try to get rid of as much old technologies as we can
<knome> i'm talking about new features or something else that needs extra work and planning
<flocculant> ochosi: the only risk that I see is whether there are enough people checking the 4.13 stuff - as you'd expect
<Unit193> flocculant: File manager was ours, intel driver isn't really ours.  This would be *us* "breaking" things.
<ochosi> problem is that at the moment our "developers" are busy with working on upstream xfce stuff
<knome> so what else old technologies do we have except gtk2?
<knome> is there still some python2 stuff around?
<flocculant> Unit193: indeed
<ochosi> maybe python2, maybe gstreamer stuff, not sure
<Unit193> gst0.10 is gone.
<knome> if our plan is to get that out before 18.04, could somebody who is knowledgeable on the subject create a roadmap for that side?
<ochosi> i guess bluesabre could
<ochosi> after all he's our snake-charmer
<ochosi> :]
<Unit193> ochosi: Can you clarify on 'old technologies' a bit more?
<knome> that too
<knome> i don't think that's a discussion for the meeting necessarily
<knome> it might be better on the mailing list
<ochosi> Unit193: well, that was mostly targeted at middleware that our applications and desktop use
<ochosi> so gtk2, gstreamer, ...
<knome> we might actually get some useful ideas/pointers from the community here
<ochosi> sure
<knome> ochosi, want to take the action to send another mail?
<Unit193> ochosi: Basically I'm trying to figure out if you're trying to do away more with a classic desktop.
<knome> i don't think this has anything to do with classic/modern desktops
<ochosi> Unit193: nope, not really thinking about mobile when i say "technology" here ;)
<knome> or change of direction in the kind of desktop we want here
<knome> indeed
<Unit193> No, not mobile either way.
<ochosi> just getting rid of extra packages we have to ship and that might not be as well maintained anymore
<ochosi> (or not at all)
<ochosi> like the murrine engine
<knome> yep..
<Unit193> ochosi: That, I'm good with! :P
<knome> potentially some of this work might mean stuff would get removed from the repositories
<ochosi> so basically my BIG goal for 18.04 would be to be gtk3 all the way
<knome> which is not necessarily a bad thing
<ochosi> yup
<knome> ochosi, that depends more on xfce though, but yeah, sure
<ochosi> yeah mostly
<Unit193> Well, GTK3 only might be pretty big, but otherwise right.
<ochosi> but we might still have stuff lingering around
<knome> but again my question is if that's the *only* goal too?
<ochosi> i'd say it could be the main goal
<ochosi> since it's quite big on its own
<knome> i can agree with that, but again it's partly out of our reach
<ochosi> well it depends
<knome> i mean out of our control
<ochosi> if we say it's our goal then one consequence would be to double-down and install (tested) 4.13 releases of xfce components
<knome> sure, xubuntu developers can user their time in helping xfce, but that doesn't guarantee it's ready for 18.04
<knome> yes
<ochosi> well nothing guarantees that anyway
<knome> of course not
<knome> but that's exactly what i meant
<ochosi> i'd say we should clean our front yard
<ochosi> make a list of what other gtk2 stuff we have
<ochosi> and try to replace it 
<flocculant> for this amount - should have been on the agenda
<knome> that was what i was proposing earlier
<ochosi> thinking of pidgin etc.
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, well spontaneous idea. blame Unit193!
<knome> flocculant, i agree it probably should have been, but i don't want to slow down impromptu discussion
<knome> we're not making decisions here anyway
<Unit193> ochosi: Noooope, I didn't mention it here! :P
<ochosi> as long as "here" is IRC... ;)
<ochosi> Unit193: wanna make a list of things still gtk2 in our default install?
<flocculant> at least 2 people who should be involved aren't here
<Unit193> Anything else for the meeting?  Discussion can continue afterwards I believe.
<flocculant> knome: ^^
<knome> flocculant, should that stop us from discussing?
<ochosi> flocculant: there's no decision-taking anyway, it's more a fact-finding mission (is going all gtk3 even realistic for 18.04, even when we exclude xfce)
<flocculant> only when you're not running things
<knome> as i see it, part of the reason we have scheduled meetings is that we give the opportunity for people to meet and discuss, even impromptu, non-agenda items
<knome> flocculant, i'll take the chair and run the rest of the meeting if that's the issue
<knome> and i do think that all of the team should be involved in the decision whether we want to ship (gtk3) development versions from xfce or not
<Unit193> Not entirely keen on the idea.
<knome> we'll never have everyone here, even if the topic is on the agenda and the meeting is announced well in advance; people simply have blockers
<knome> Unit193, keen on what? team being involved?
<flocculant> so the bulk should be on the mailing list
<Unit193> knome: Exxxactly!  Nope, GTK3 Xfce so early.
<knome> ...but again, the reason why we schedule meetings (at least as i see it) it is to be able to have these real-time discussions
<knome> mailing list is so damn slow.
<knome> Unit193, it wasn't obvious (and i guess that there might've been arguments for the other too)
<ochosi> Unit193: wanna share your concerns?
<Unit193> OK, now it is though. :)
<knome> yes, thanks for clearing
<knome> (seriously!)
<knome> and i'd like to hear the concerns too
<Unit193> Updating my yak iso so I can check gtk2 (maybe) and py2.
<knome> is the concern that you don't trust enough that the all-gtk3 port is ready?
<knome> or is something else involved?
<knome> (not saying the former isn't a good argument)
<ochosi> sry guys, i'll be afk for 30mins or so, i'll return later on though and read the backlog
<ochosi> ->
<knome> i guess we should hear the arguments from Unit193 and end the meeting, or if he wants time to think about it, just end the meeting
<Unit193> I'm thinking that it's very early for those releases, not a lot of testing outside of the people that ported them (so might well not be fully baked), and then getting stuck with it for 6 months.
<Unit193> I'm good with ending now, either way.
<knome> for a longer time, actually
<flocculant> Unit193: Id' worry about that as well given the testing *we* manage to get
<knome> if that's the concern, then from xfce's point of view, who's going to do the testing outside those who ported?
<knome> (rhetorical, and partly offtopic, let's not go to that here)
<Unit193> That's what Debian experimental is for, people to opt-in not in static releases, like ours.  I'd say we could PPA everything (smoke test it first), and heck even mention that PPA in the official release notes.
<knome> Unit193, that's a fair suggestion and i considered that as well
<knome> Unit193, theoretically, could you whip up an ISO with the PPA stuff installed?
<knome> (and yeah, the other goal for 18.04 at latest should be core/base)
<Unit193> Just the whole idea of "New release of Xubuntu!"  "Oh, and btw.  You're all testers, you'll file bugs right?"
<knome> fair.
<knome> though now is the perfect time
<knome> well, the best; let me explain
<knome> 16.10 is the first release after an LTS; at this point those who don't want to be testers can still decide to go the LTS->LTS upgrade route
<knome> if we land the stuff in 17.04, those who have gone to 16.10 do not have that option any more, and they are even more forced to be testers
<Unit193> flocculant: Ready to end the meeting?  This is after meeting stuff.
<flocculant> knome: on the other hand - if it all goes badly wrong - those people are now stuck upgrading to 17.04 as soon as possible
<flocculant> #info bluesabre to schedule next meeting
<flocculant> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Aug 12 20:48:56 2016 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-08-12-20.00.moin.txt
<flocculant> knome: and then they'd be using a real dev version till it's released
<knome> flocculant, sure, but it's much more opt-in kind of situation if the gtk3 stuff first lands in 16.10
<flocculant> yea ofc
<knome> of course. but they could always skip to 18.04
<Unit193> On a personal note, I was packaging, smoke testing, then uploading to the PPA but I lost interest once I started seeing the panel plugins in GTK3 form. :/
<knome> i'm not saying it's waterproof, i'm saying i think it's better to land the stuff now than to 17.04 because at that point we have little control over telling people what their options are - because they have picked their choice already
<flocculant> if I wasn't me (likely to do this anyway) and I found I was forced to test for a whole cycle then I would seriously consider moving
<knome> Unit193, if it's the visual side you're not happy with, then we might want to discuss this with ochosi and see if there are any way to make stuff look better
<flocculant> and you're right in that pov, now rather than 17.04, when people have made a choice - however what you're talking about is making a choice for them
<Unit193> knome: Visual and responsive, just like how Firefox is less responsive since it moved to GTK3 too.
<flocculant> unless people know befoer they install
<knome> Unit193, yeah
<knome> flocculant, we still have time to communicate that to our users.
<flocculant> yup
<Unit193> knome: Please, keep my personal and part of the team opinions seperate.
<knome> flocculant, and we can add disclaimers to the website with any 16.04+ releases
<flocculant> what would be best imo would be things in ppa asap for people to test - even half broken maybe
<knome> Unit193, i'm not sure how that's possible though... but sure, i understand that there's "what Unit193 wants" and "what Unit193 thinks is sensible for xubuntu"
<Unit193> (Otherwise I get stuck not being able to say my personal opinion.)
<knome> i think everybody should say their personal opinion, and when it's time to vote, or when specifically asked, do what they think is the best for xubuntu
<knome> everything i say is always my personal opinion
<flocculant> anyway - I'll just say this and be off for now
<flocculant> until there's something concrete for me to have an opinion - either personal or for xubuntu - I'll hold fire :)
<flocculant> night all
<knome> good night flocculant 
<Unit193> knome: http://u193.ga/c/x4ax/ - http://u193.ga/c/8y2y/ btw.
<knome> .ga?
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/c/x4ax/ - https://sigma.unit193.net/c/8y2y/
<knome> gvfs-backends
<knome> eh
<knome> that was needed for something to work
<Unit193> gvfs, basically. :P
<knome> :P
<Unit193> https://bugzilla.samba.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10028 - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1014589 - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=781913
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by bugzilla.samba.org: Connection reset by peer. (https://bugzilla.samba.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10028&ctype=xml)
<ubottu> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 1014589 in samba "samba: Support Python 3" [Unspecified,New]
<ubottu> Debian bug 781913 in src:samba "please build bindings for Python3 and let samba-common-bin use them" [Normal,Open]
<knome> isn't the support for samba kind of ending anyway, or have i misunderstood?
<Unit193> ...Not that I've heard, at all.
<knome> then i've probably misunderstood something
<Unit193> https://github.com/rickysarraf/apt-offline/pull/32
<knome> :)
<Unit193> py2 seems not too hard (except locally, of course! :P ), GTK2...
<knome> heh
<knome> i know
<Unit193> Also, ISO build.  Depends, if it's drop-in, then sure.  Though would there be a point?
<knome> i don't know
<knome> maybe
<Unit193> Anything else?
 * knome shrugs
<ochosi> ok back
<Unit193> ochosi: Thoughts?  NOW!  We want them all this second!
<Unit193> :D
<ochosi> still reading, sry :)
<ochosi> ok, so in terms of panel plugins i'm happy to improve the look and feel
<ochosi> i've so far only worked on the ones i use personally (which are not that many tbh) and i'm ok with their looks
<ochosi> lemme know which ones concern you (although i vaguely remember seeing some awful switch-checkbox combinations in screenshots)
<Unit193> I don't remember anymore, it was in VM and I bailed.
<ochosi> :]
<ochosi> pushing everything to PPAs is a totally valid approach
<ochosi> i guess we should probably have a vote if those are the two options the team considers (PPA everything Gtk3 vs Ship everything Gtk3)
<ochosi> what would be great is if we could ship the development releases of the libs that are backward compatible
<ochosi> e.g. libxfce4ui i would really suggest we ship 4.13.0 because the changes don't break anything gtk2
<ochosi> and we'll need it for some things gtk3.20
<ochosi> and there might be more of those candidates
<ochosi> (to clarify what i meant earlier when i said "ship development releases")
<ochosi> i would never suggest shipping xfce4-session untested, that's far too delicate
<Unit193> Understandable and can't say I really disagree there either, in regards to exo, garcon, and libxfce4ui.
<Unit193> Personally I'm also fine with gdbus ports.
<ochosi> applications like notifyd have independent stable releases and imo we should ship the latest (unless there are known showstopper bugs)
<Unit193> :'(
<Unit193> OK... :(
<ochosi> why so sad? :)
<Unit193> That one just goes back to my personal opinion! :P  (GTK3 is less responsive, switches are fugly.)
<ochosi> less responsive in what way? slower?
<Unit193> Yeah.
<ochosi> haven't noticed any differences lately, but then again i have a fairly new laptop
<Unit193> Seriously notice it when the computer is under stress and I try to un-minimize firefox.  I could nearly take a nap waiting.
<Unit193> Menus as well, hence why xfce4-panel doesn't sound fun to get ported, but anyway, not my point.
<Unit193> < Unit193> Please, keep my personal and part of the team opinions separate.
<ochosi> i'm taking your personal opinion just as seriously though, just as a note
<ochosi> as long as xubuntu is xfce i think there won't be much choice
<knome> tell him one more time he's heard and he'll faint
<Unit193> (And the whole "GTK3 looks like something to go on a tablet, not a freaking desktop!" :P )
<ochosi> upstream xfce has decided to go to gtk3 so i guess we should support that as good as we can
<ochosi> heh, well i think that's very overstated, gtk3 still contains gtk2
<Unit193> Right.
<ochosi> or most of it
<knome> or if we don't want to, let other people take over
<ochosi> they just added new fancy widgets and decided to use js on the desktop
<ochosi> (and overthrew their HIG)
<ochosi> the toolkit itself is still as usable as gtk2 for "regular" desktop applications
<ochosi> just depends on the app developers what they want to go for, design-wise (as it always has)
<ochosi> ^ ochosi's personal opinion
<ochosi> ;)
<Unit193> Mine being that I lost motivation to PPA all of Xfce4. :P
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> that's something to take into account when deciding whether PPAing everything gtk3 is feasible
<Unit193> Don't see why not.
<ochosi> well, nobody with motivation to do it? :p
<Unit193> Sean?
<knome> we can't load everything to him
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce4-gtk3/+packages is the one you're supposed to be using, but I actually did grab a few more: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce4-gtk3/+packages
<Unit193> knome: Not trying to.
<ochosi> i would hope he would help me with porting xfce stuff rather than with PPAing
<Unit193> ...That would put everything on me though.
<knome> i didn't say you were, but you've said today you didn't have the motivation to finish and then pointed to sean, so i could imagine why somebody could feel that way..
<knome> everything with the gtk3 ppa
<knome> i'm referring to the whole xubuntu development stuff
<Unit193> Oh?
<knome> "sean" can't be the answer to everything
<knome> (neither can "simon", "unit193" or "pasi")
<ochosi> Unit193: we should really find more people who know how to package then
<ochosi> :)
<Unit193> (Lack of motivation coming from the "This all feels like a downgrade" and "Nobody is really 'using' this but me, and I don't like where this is going anyway", with a touch of "I have to smoke test all of these.. :/")
<Unit193> ochosi: Is there a nice tree somewhere? :D
<knome> it doesn't really matter where the lack of motivation comes from in terms of getting it done
<Unit193> Could, some things are fixable.
<knome> i don't mean somebody should do something they don't have motivation to do
<Unit193> Well, in the end, sort of yeah.
<knome> no, i don't
<Unit193> Fine, I do.
<knome> i appreciate if people do things regardless of it though
<knome> but i can't force them
<knome> and won't try to
<ochosi> anyway, if you are motivated enough to put together a list of visual deficiencies or at least a starting point (as in: let's start with this particular plugin) we can talk
<ochosi> gaston seemed very open to suggestions anyway
<Unit193> ...Am I supposed to be honest or positive? :P
<knome> which one do you think can help xfce/xubuntu more?
<ochosi> just be yourself ;)
<knome> ochosi, one thing that's high on my list is that everything seems to have a lot of padding, and i'd like to make the amount smaller
<ochosi> guess you gotta be more concrete there
<ochosi> the stuff i recently ported has exactly the same padding as in gtk2
<knome> textboxes
<ochosi> the themes might not be the same
<knome> from what i've seen so far, that is
<knome> if the GUI size is the same as with gtk2, then i'm good
<knome> there are some gtk3 widgets i don't like either, like the combined text input/scale
<knome> or whatever it's called
<knome> it's too easy to click the scale when you're trying to hit the text input
<ochosi> where could i see that widget?
<knome> or was that a qt widget?
<knome> i guess i'm a bit tired :)
<ochosi> the one from the gimp?
<knome> in inkscape...
<knome> i guess it's in gimp too
<ochosi> right, those are both gtk2 applications :D
<Unit193> ochosi: https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/docs/xfce4-gtk3.html#_needs_smoke_testing added that.
<knome> ochosi, ok, then i hate the gtk2 widget and the gtk3 equivalent, and recommend avoiding that widget in porting :P
<ochosi> knome: not sure there even is a gtk3 equivalent, at least i haven't seen it anywhere. and i agree. that widget is *the worst*
<knome> yep.
<ochosi> Unit193: kewl
<Unit193> Know who can smoke test?  Basically, just add the PPA, upgrade, add the plugin, press a couple buttons and make sure nothing obvious is broken.
<Unit193> ochosi: Wait, are you volunteering to learn how to package?! :D
<bluesabre> evening all, catching up on backlog
<ochosi> Unit193: nah, unless you're volunteering to learn how to write and maintain gtk+2&3 themes :)
<Unit193> Oh heck no I'm not.
<Unit193> (Also if I did, I'd be maintaining a different theme. >_>)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Aren't you supposed to update https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.14/roadmap for exo?
<bluesabre> alrighty, caught up
<bluesabre> at this point, maybe dev libraries in 16.10, I wouldn't suggest anything else with FF next week
<bluesabre> PPA for the things we care about sounds sensible
<Unit193> Easy to update mid cycle too.
<bluesabre> If folks are interested in contributing to xfce in ubuntu (but not xubuntu), we can put together an xfce team and related branches, PPAs, etc
<bluesabre> to reduce xubuntu-developer load
<bluesabre> that obviously requires maintenance, but we might be able to get myth/studio folks to also join in if they are so inclined
<bluesabre> I know they are kind of stepping back a bit, but just a thought
<bluesabre> ochosi: you indicated that you have a gtk 3.20 ppa for xenial?
<Unit193> Myth is going into very low maintenance mode, just their own packages.
<bluesabre> k
<Unit193> I don't think Studio right now hasa very many decent packagers.
<bluesabre> that clears things up for me
<bluesabre> but that will remain on the table, and I'm happy to help folks along if they are interested in doing something to that sort
<Unit193> (I could be wrong, but though Kaj was the one that did most of the packaging, and he's recently handed the flavor off to someone else.)
<Unit193> bluesabre: OH, we should add xfdashy to supported.
<knome> don't know about the packaging but yes he has
<bluesabre> Unit193: indeed, and the various *-gtk-themes
<bluesabre> I'm sure you saw my email, so you knew that already :D
<bluesabre> (*that as in that was my weekend plan at least)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Not really arc, though.  Xubuntu doesn't currently use it and Shimmer has nothing to do with it. :3
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> same
<Unit193> And yeah, thanks I did see it.
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks for all the links, I think that helps me for things I'm planning
<bluesabre> and I have an exo package
<Unit193> Links?  And a good exo package? :----D
<bluesabre> good...ish?
<bluesabre> https://cloud.smdavis.us/index.php/s/QI8k4bIKdwVJ5KZ
<bluesabre> I'll probably toss it into the ppa tonight
<bluesabre> ochosi tested it, so at the very least its usable ;)
<Unit193> (I was kidding!)
<Unit193> Yep, sounds good!
<Unit193> He released another version of eyes fixing the FTBFS with older GTK3, and we also have .20 now too.  Test building no than to staging it goes.
<bluesabre> cool
<Unit193> ...Wanna smoke it? :3
<bluesabre> I can check out the package... might take me a bit though, watching videos on a friday after work, motivation < 0.01
<Unit193> Hahah, yeeeah understandable. :D
<knome> bluesabre, of which unit? :P
 * Unit193 tempted to just upload eyes-plugin to the repo...
 * bluesabre has no way of stopping Unit193
<Unit193> Well, "I'm your commanding officer, stop now." would do it.
<bluesabre> nah
<ochosi> bluesabre: you mean like this one? :) https://launchpad.net/~ochosi/+archive/ubuntu/gtk320-xenial
<Unit193> I remember helping on that one. :P
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> anyway, sleepy time
<ochosi> night y'all
<bluesabre> Unit193: have that eyes package for me to test?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yep!  Right https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-eyes-plugin/4.5.0-0ubuntu1
<Unit193> :>
<bluesabre> works for me
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> I did test it, looked exactly the same even.
<Unit193> (And it's so fringe that nobody really cares, soo.)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-13
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Ah good you copied exo over.
<flocculant> bluesabre: are we putting all the gtk3 stuff at https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce4-gtk3 ?
<Unit193> flocculant: Yes, pretty much.  Xfce GTK3 at least, and FWIW I do install/load it before it gets there, xfconf was a fluke that got in. :?
<Unit193> FWIW, mine of the same name has a few more I didn't copy as I didn't load yet.
<flocculant> Unit193: so - just add 'our' one?
<flocculant> will ones in your ppa get to there?
<flocculant> I can at least add these things and they'll get some more use :)
<Unit193> Sure, that'll work.  And eventually, but been in there a month or two. :P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> Unit193: ok - so I lost link to your one ... 
<flocculant> I don't mind adding them both ofc
<flocculant> Unit193: also I saw the talking of cdimage comment :D
<Unit193> flocculant: Good! :P  And yeah, if you do add one from mine, tell me so I can copy it over.  unit193/xfce4-gtk3.
<flocculant> Unit193: looks like notifyd is in yours but not dev one - plus all the plugins ofc
<flocculant> I don't use any of the plugins - but can if they need more eyes on them
<Unit193> Right, there was something with the theme that ochosi said to hold off, that might be old info now.
<flocculant> ochosi: ^^
<flocculant> I suppose for 'other' peoples best to try to get them all in one place eventually
<Unit193> Right, I was going to load them, open settings, then give it a general ACK and copy over.  But I never did.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> doesn't matter to me where they are - just thinking about other people out there 
<Unit193> Sure, and yes that's the intention.  But also the intention was to give them ones that at least basically work, which xfconf doesn't with xfce4-panel. :D
<flocculant> aah ok - so the one in dev will be the same then I assume
<flocculant> not as simple as adding the ppa and letting them all upgrade :p
<flocculant> I'm talking here about my daily machine
<flocculant> I can do a vm - but then I'd not really do anything other than check things and wander off somewhere
<Unit193> That's about what I'd expect for copying them over, aye.
<flocculant> ok - well I'll get that sorted out - then wait for someone to say try them somewhere daily :p
<Unit193> I'm just packaging, I don't know what the plan is! :D
 * Unit193 minion.
 * flocculant has even less idea :p
<flocculant> 4.6 kernel in proposed finally
<bluesabre> morning all
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hiya knome
<knome> ok, bbl
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<flocculant> bluesabre: just seen this - which is just meh :| https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1568604/comments/195
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1568604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Xenial) "Mouse cursor lost when unlocking with Intel graphics" [High,Confirmed]
<flocculant> :(
<bluesabre> flocculant: that looks like a non-issue... not sure where that user is coming from, but he is using 14.04
<flocculant> yes - but I've not checked that new update on trusty 
<bluesabre> oh right
<flocculant> on the other hand - it's Saturday so whatever :p
<flocculant> I will try and double check that though soonish
<flocculant> bluesabre: I guess that if it is broken then trusty people can revert and pin the old version
<bluesabre> it's an annoying enough issue, I would put in the to have the update stop being distributed and replace with the previous
<bluesabre> xenial shipped with it, so its stuck
<flocculant> right
<bluesabre> trusty should not become less stable
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll grab and install on laptop later and see if that *is* the case then we'll know for sure
<bluesabre> great, we'll plan from there
<flocculant> with a bit of luck I might have a trusty from when I was lts> lts checking
<flocculant> as you can probably tell I don't use the laptop :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: of for a bit now though - have a lovely day :)
<bluesabre> you too flocculant 
<flocculant> bluesabre: quick question if you're still around - if trusty is broken - shall I do a new bug from trusty - mark it regression or something? 
<bluesabre> yes, that sounds reasonable
<flocculant> bluesabre: I have a trusty install with the trusty-updates version of the package here - no cursor loss
<flocculant> just going to upgrade it and see - while I'm drinking a beverage in the sun outside :p
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: just fyi - cos beverage and I'll forget ... updating normally - then check - then -proposed then check, but seems that comment is odd 
<bluesabre> agreed
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 - forgetting dpkg flags, ---intel is marked rc on trusty 
<flocculant> oh never mind - guess that's -proposed broken
<flocculant> that'll be tomorrow now 
<bluesabre> flocculant: hm?
<bluesabre> flocculant: there's a shiny new xfce4-settings coming to https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa shortly, will probably be xfce4-settings 4.12.1
<bluesabre> flocculant: if you were to become bored this weekend (and I advise otherwise), could you spot check it?
<bluesabre> bugs fixed...
<bluesabre> xfce #12223
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12223 in Appearance Settings "color scheme preview garbled on low bit depth display" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12223
<bluesabre> xfce #12580
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12580 in Display Settings "Segfault in convert_xfce_output_info when plugging in an external model" [Normal,Needinfo] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12580
<bluesabre> xfce #12086
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12086 in Appearance Settings "/Xft/Hinting is never set" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12086
<bluesabre> xfce #11746
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11746 in Appearance Settings "xfce4-appearance-settings crash" [Critical,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11746
<bluesabre> xfce #11107
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11107 in Xfsettingsd "xfsettingsd resets TV mode to NULL on power cycle" [Critical,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11107
<bluesabre> (and this goes for anybody else that might want to give it a go)
<bluesabre> bbabl
<flocculant> bluesabre: is that new settings just a normal ppa update? I'll get that later I guess. 
<flocculant> if it's some gtk3 thing then I'm not sure what the state is - where I should grb them? will gtk3 ppa kill my daily or just make it look suspect :p
<flocculant> quiet happy to play about as long as hexchat/clementine/tbird/firefox work - in that order ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: just gtk2, same old same old, stable update
<bluesabre> flocculant: the gtk3 ppa could be a bit scarier
<Unit193> I can make it scarier.
<flocculant> make it scary :)
<flocculant> I'll just report it all as broken :D
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: basically, since its a stable release, it could make its way back to xenial
<flocculant> bluesabre: so basically I've no problems with trusty
<flocculant> bluesabre: rather than blah de blah > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1568604/comments/197
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1568604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Xenial) "Mouse cursor lost when unlocking with Intel graphics" [High,Confirmed]
<flocculant> wandering back off into the weekend ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre: so we find that Ctrl+M for mute is really bloody close to Super+M for mailbox ... 
<flocculant> just so you don't think that whoever picks these things is infallible :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks for the commen
<bluesabre> t
<flocculant> welcome - let'ssee if we get a response :)
<flocculant> night anyway :)
<ochosi> evening all
<knome> hello ochosi 
<knome> will we get an email today?
<ochosi> i guess, since you didn't yesterday
<ochosi> was out all day
<ochosi> and yesterday there was no more time
<ochosi> also wanted to run it by ppl more involved lately with the council proposal before i hit "send"
<knome> okay
<ochosi> flocculant isn't around anymore i guess
<ochosi> but if you can take a look
<knome> well i am..
<knome> sure
<zincing>  HexChat: 2.10.2 ** OS: Linux 4.4.0-34-generic x86_64 ** Distro: Ubuntu "xenial" 16.04 ** CPU: 4 x Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6500U CPU @ 2.50GHz (GenuineIntel) @ 792MHz ** RAM: Physical: 7,7GiB, 78,6% free ** Disk: Total: 226,8GiB, 86,6% free ** VGA: Intel Corporation Sky Lake Integrated Graphics ** Sound: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH ** Ethernet: None found ** Uptime: 5h 53m 3s **
<knome> zincing, ooookay. let's not do that again. ever.
<zincing> Sorry
<knome> no worries
<ochosi> :=
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> k, mail sent
<flocculant> ochosi: cheers m'dear :)
<knome> and nighty ->
<flocculant> night knome :)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-14
<nairwolf> hi everyone, I know I've already discussed about that a lot in the past. 
<nairwolf> I would like to know if I'm running Xubuntu 16.10 with my daily computer, and if I make bug reports, will this help the QA team ? 
<nairwolf> I suppose I should add this ppa in order to help correctly, right ? http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/development.html#development-ppa
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-08
<Unit193> bluesabre: Can we please do the pkg:xubuntu-icon-theme â src:elementary-xfce-icon-theme transition this cycle? :3
<Unit193> https://wiki.debian.org/RenamingPackages I kind of would like to do 'clean slate' method. :3
<knome> Unit193, i'm not bluesabre, but sounds sensible to me :P
<Unit193> knome: That's kind of been the problem with it, seemed sane for a while now, but.. :3
<knome> heh
<knome> but what?
<knome> bluesabre is slacking?
 * knome beats bluesabre a bit
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> He's been busy with life and Xfce this cycle.
<Unit193> (So the claim goes.)
<bluesabre> We just need a generic distributor logo, I'll see what exists and make some changes to the theme
<knome> i can provide one
<bluesabre> knome: awesome, please do
<Unit193> I looked at that closely not too long ago, it's a much nicer setup in Debian... :/
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'd be happy to knock this out this week :)
<bluesabre> Unit193, flocculant: the list of players in the plugin are now sorted (start from scratch and remove/add the plugin in the panel)
<Unit193> I mean I do have elementary-xfce-themes_16.04.dsc, but it is ooold.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> I presume you either have it or don't want/need it.
<Unit193> Oh, oh wow.  It's got the LO theme too.
<bluesabre> Unit193: Please link me to it, otherwise I'll produce some monster package
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'd review it before linking it, but bad time to do that: https://sigma.unit193.net/source/elementary-xfce-themes_16.04.dsc
<Unit193> Eg, pretty sure there's things I'd change.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hrm, we also need to get a move on it, FF end of the month.  I don't suppose you'd file the needs-packaging too? :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: ofc
<bluesabre> Unless you want to
<flocculant> morningish
<bluesabre> I'll be away most of today
<Unit193> file = on statusnotifier.
<bluesabre> gotcha
<bluesabre> yeah, will try to knock that out tonight
<Unit193> qqqq
<bluesabre> Out for the day, bbl
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-09
<bluesabre> flocculant, Unit193: the plugin should be really stable now, give it a whirl
<Unit193> Oh.
<flocculant> bluesabre: it's there I use it :p
<Unit193> bluesabre: panel-plugin/mprismenuitem.c needs to be in potfiles.
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks
<Unit193> bluesabre: Do you know why the pa-plug has an icon that's slightly smaller and a shade darker?
<Unit193> I'll have to try this later, when I'm at something that has a theme supporting GTK3. :P
<flocculant> ftr icon size from pa-plug looks better whatever the reason - previous one was enormous
<Unit193> Hrm, -sound looks normal sized, other looks a bit small for what I've got. :3
<ninetls> Unit193: can you give a screenshot?
<Unit193> < Unit193> I'll have to try this later, when I'm at something that has a theme supporting GTK3. :P    I can later.
<flocculant> ninetls: http://i.imgur.com/irtV2D0.png
<ninetls> flocculant: hmm, for you it looks fine
<Unit193> https://i.imgur.com/iAnaD5q.png or now and later...
<flocculant> before I grabbed bluesabre's one icon was much much bigger and looked rather out of sync with other panel icons
<ninetls> I have no problems as well
<ninetls> there was a change with icon sizing iirc
<ninetls> for now it should be sized more correctly
<flocculant> ok - I'll say no more then :p
<ninetls> Unit193: first is i-sound, second is pa-plugin, yes?
<Unit193> Yep.
<ninetls> hmm, that's strange
<ninetls> recently icon size was calculated as button_size - 2
<ninetls> that's wrong
<ninetls> since icon is symbolic
<ninetls> symbolic icons should have 16/24/32/etc
<ninetls> and now they have this size
<ninetls> it's strange that this icon looks this bad for Unit193 
<flocculant> ninetls bluesabre: any chance that pa-plugin can allow greater than 100% volume ?
<ninetls> flocculant: but it can
<flocculant> not with mouse it can't
<ninetls> but only from panel menu
<flocculant> right - I meant mouse on icon :)
<flocculant> ninetls: did you notice my comment to bluesabre re being able to enable/disable menu items eg - I've absolutely no interest in input volume so it's a pita
<flocculant> and also nice to see you in here :D
<Unit193> He's been in here a bit, I've already bothered him multiple times. :3
<ninetls> flocculant: I don't think these items take too much space
<flocculant> yea I know - first time I've been about at same time
<ninetls> flocculant: I'm here but I'm not ubuntu user
<flocculant> ninetls: nothing to do with space - to do with things being of no use to some people
<flocculant> ninetls: yea I know
<ninetls> there are a lot of xfce discussions which don't related to xubuntu
<flocculant> in fact I'd posit input of no interest to desktop unless they've actually got some sort of mic
<ninetls> I'd say there are too few xubuntu-related discussions
<ninetls> for example bluesabre told about his work on mpris2 here first
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ninetls: likely because he and I were talking about it one evening
<Unit193> 'xubuntu-specific' rather, and this is a bit of a slow cycle.  mpris2 is to replace indicator-sound, so that's where it came from. :D
<ninetls> flocculant: hmm, I think it's good idea to hide this menu until mic connected
<ninetls> I'm just using laptop with built-in mic
<flocculant> ninetls: that would probably be a good choice
<ninetls> so didn't think about that
<flocculant> ninetls: ack :)
<Unit193> flocculant: I didn't push anything to PPAs recently for you and forget to tell you, did I?
<flocculant> Unit193: umm donm't think so 
<flocculant> but I don't check where upgrades come from tbh
<Unit193> Well of course there's exo, but that's boring (and requested in #xfce-dev)
<flocculant> yea saw that come through
<flocculant> when I say I don't check - I do check 'what's' upgrading
<Unit193> Time to break sync with Debian for a few...
<Unit193> ninetls: Do we want the new xfce4-xkb-plugin? :3
<ninetls> Unit193: I don't know what do you want!
<ninetls> but I you are, keep in mind that it isn't compatible with old versions
<bluesabre> Unit193: look good? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1709733
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1709733 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> bluesabre: Only other thing I'd think of is "Why", so yes good job!
<Unit193> Covering all the bases.
<bluesabre> Yup, even going to push a good package to my sponsoring ppa
<Unit193> 'Good package'? :3
<bluesabre> just one ready to push to artful when a friendly motu comes by
<Unit193> LocutusOfBorg!
<Unit193> bluesabre: ~/ind-sound.png ~/pa-plug.png btw.
<Unit193> > Numix, Zesty
<bluesabre> Unit193: hm?
<Unit193> Sorry, https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/ind-sound.png
<bluesabre> oh right, related to the icon sizes?
<Unit193> Well, related to what it looks like vs indicator.
<Unit193> Specifically, the white.
<bluesabre> Gotcha
<bluesabre> Your zero-padding numix feels weird :D
<Unit193> pa-plug is busy, and white.  Eh, but the menus are massive and so awful otherwise.
<Unit193> But we'll blame Mr Buxton.
<Unit193> bluesabre: These are small things though, I too think it's a plus!
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-10
<bluesabre> Other than figuring out style class weirdness (ochosi?), everything else should be good to go on the plugin now
<Unit193> Yes!  Let's ping andrzejr1
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-11
<Unit193> Updated exo, tumbler, xfce4-clipman-plugin and xfce4-terminal in Xubuntu, breaking sync with the first 3.
<Unit193> flocculant: BTW, cursor in terminal will change with the update, I personally prefer the old method.
<Unit193> method == coloring.
<Unit193> ninetls: ...Were you going to look at xfce4-indicator-plugin? :3
<ninetls> Unit193: ?
<Unit193> Woah, you're alive.  Specifically, where it comes to building with 'ayatana' indicators, and other things.
<ninetls> I'm not i-plugin maintainer :D
<Unit193> Granted, at this point it is nearly superseded..
<Unit193> ninetls: I know, but you did look at it and add a patch.  You were also discussing it last time I happened to bring that up.
<ninetls> yes, I don't mind about it
<ninetls> if andrzejr agree with it we can add this optional feature to i-plugin
<Unit193> 17:31:30 < ~andrze jr> Unit193, I (definitely) don't mind ayatana libs but that should be a configure option.
<flocculant> Unit193: saw that - not something which bothers me much 
<flocculant> bothers me more that I can't open a terminal from desktop ;)
<Unit193> Technically that's fixable, use xfdesktop4 from repos.
<Unit193> "Our patches to add enabling and disabling of the Network Connectivity Checker are in review upstream. This will eventually add a toggle switch in the privacy settings of Control Center to allow you to turn on/off the connectivity checker. We should be able to distro-patch these into Ubuntu soon before they appear upstream, and then drop the patches once they are available upstream."  Well, that 
<Unit193> doesn't help !GNOME does it?
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-12
<Unit193> @ping
<ubottu> pong
<meetingology> pong
<meetingology`> pong
<Unit193> \o/
<flocculant> Unit193: cursor was blue yesterday - it's white now :p
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-13
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...You didn't include the patch in sn-plugin?
<ninetls> Unit193: which patch?
<ninetls> oh
<ninetls> I understand
<ninetls> anyway I'm going to release 0.2.0 soon
<Unit193> Fantastic!  Wondered.
<Unit193> flocculant: Also, I have no idea why it'd have been blue...
<Unit193> Unfortunate that terminal uses a conf file over xfconf. >_>
<bluesabre> bluesabre: I pulled from pkg-xfce :D
<Unit193> Too early for bluesabre, and I noticed, I pushed there.  I debianized the Ubuntu package. :P
<Unit193> (Patch fixes where eg, remmina icon is 1px. :P)
<Unit193> But 0.2.0 will be out before we upload, likely..
<bluesabre> Alrighty
<Unit193> Hiiii.  Whacha doin' this morning?
<bluesabre> Planning my day
<bluesabre> We're house hunting, so trying to do some efficient route planning :)
<Unit193> Ooh, good luck!
<ninetls> Unit193: I'd like only wait until Skunnyk fix tx issues
<Unit193> Nice.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-06
<ochosi> very annoying, my remote bouncer got k-lined today...
<knome> funny
<knome> :P
<knome> maybe Unit193 can help?
<Unit193> knome: Nothing to help with, he's back.  It was removed a few minutes later. :3
<Unit193> Though there appears to be two of him now.
<knome> haha
<knome> (:
<ochosi> two?
<ochosi> i only see one
<ochosi> ah right, seems they lifted it after my email
<ochosi> noice
<knome> now there is no ochosi at all..
<flocculant> like a disappearing cat
<flocculant> s/a/the
<knome> :)
<TJ-> Is there anyone can address Bug #1615286 
<ubottu> bug 1615286 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfce - screen turns black after power off/power on" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1615286
<TJ-> basically it needs an SRU or backport to 16.04
<knome> bluesabre, ^
<TJ-> unfortunately I don't have the time, but verified with tomreyn the artful package solves it. It'd be easier to SRU that version than the version in 18.04 because dependencies have increased
<TJ-> no SRU, but repackage the artful package for xenial :)
<bluesabre> Evening all
<bluesabre> TJ-: I'd have no problem SRU'ing that... can I count on you for the SRU verification once it lands in -proposed? :)
<TJ-> We'd have to ask tomreyn he's the one got me to investigate it, and had the problem
<TJ-> He added the last comment to the bug, and he's a regular support helper in #ubuntu et al
<bluesabre> Cool
<bluesabre> I'll work on that today or tomorrow
<bluesabre> Got another xenial SRU that I also need to work on
<bluesabre> (Thanks for keeping us accountable)
<TJ-> I've pinged Tom to keep an eye out for it
<Unit193> TJ-: We've put work into SRU's (Or other things) before, and then they stalled out due to nobody bothering to verify it.  That's why we're trying to get "buy-in" before committing.
<TJ-> Unit193: I know, I've been through that in the past. Not had the time recently to do much on packaging though else I'd have produced a debdiff
<TJ-> Tom's just confirmed he's got both eyes peeled :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-07
<bluesabre> Unit193: is there a place where upload rejects are documented?
<bluesabre> > Unapproved: rejected catfish [source] (bionic-proposed) [1.4.6-0ubuntu0.18.04.1]
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Figured you'd get an email.
<Unit193> Not going to lie, I don't like the new Xfwm because it makes the alt+tab screen horrible. :P
<knome> ...only that reason?
<Unit193> That I've noticed?  Yep, so that's good.
<Unit193> So far*
<Spass> Unit193, changing the order of window elements in xfwm4-settings works for you?
<Unit193> Spass: Should it not?
<Unit193> I see your comment in -dev, but I don't hit it.
<Spass> I have problems with it on my 18.10 install in the VM
<Unit193> I'm on the latest release, not Cosmic.
<Spass> I'll try outside the VM later
<Spass> oh, ok
<Unit193> I'm also using a packaged version.
<Spass> so maybe it's only on 18.10 on 4.13.1
<ochosi> bluesabre: i vaguely remember we discussed something recently, it was about you implementing something somewhere, but since i lost my backlog i have no idea anymore... :(
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, themes need to explicitely support/theme the tabwin in order for it not to look awful... i did a first example in greybird, was a lot of trial and error to get the css right
<ochosi> Unit193: at least there's an example now...
<bluesabre> ochosi: that's so vague... What are you talking about?
<bluesabre> ochosi: how comfortable are you with adwaita... and how comfortable would you be with submitting patches to get adwaita in xfce closer to gnome visual parity?
 * bluesabre asking the terrible questions
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-08
<bluesabre> ochosi: also floated the question in #gtk+
<bluesabre> > GNOME/GTK devs... how open would you be to accepting patches to Adwaita for Xfce-gtk3 components? These would be minimal patches to get some visual parity with the default GNOME styles.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Ever figure out the reject?
<bluesabre> Unit193: found the email. "Rejected by Åukasz Zemczak: Deprecated by a newer upload."
<Unit193> Ah cool.
<bluesabre> But....
<bluesabre> I don't see a newer upload anywhere
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+upload/18706715/+files/catfish_1.4.6-0ubuntu0.18.04.1_source.changes ?
<bluesabre> That's the one that got mysteriously canned
<bluesabre> from what I can tell at least
<bluesabre> or did it not actually get rejected?
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=
<bluesabre> huh
<bluesabre> I guess they unrejected it
<bluesabre> it was gone from that queue this morning once I saw the reject
<Unit193> I see it listed in both places.
<bluesabre> Pleasantly confusing :D
<Unit193> When in doubt, point to both queues and ask what's up? :P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> they have different dates
<bluesabre> maybe two folks sponsored without one of them communicating
<bluesabre> guess that's fine
<Unit193> So are we still moving forward with elementary?
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> will work on the makefile stuff soonish
<Unit193> Please don't break it or make any of the voodoo people angry. :3
<bluesabre> if somebody sponsors https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/elementary-xfce/+bug/1784523, we'll move the other side over and have a svg theme for a few days :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1784523 in elementary-xfce (Ubuntu) "Please sponsor elementary-xfce 0.12-1ubuntu1 for package transition" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> Heh yeah saw that.
<bluesabre> seemingly, all of my debian and ubuntu sponsors are on vacation :D
<Unit193> You mean it's as if they went to Debconf?
<bluesabre> Is that going on?
<bluesabre> And usually when folks go to debconf they have wild and crazy packaging parties aiui :D
<Unit193> That has happened.
<bluesabre> maybe I can get lamby to sponsor some stuff for me
<Unit193> ...You're going with the leader of the Debian project..?
<bluesabre> who better to sponsor :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think i can imagine the answer re:adwaita-xfce
<ochosi> bluesabre: they will say we should do it like gnome apps and include custom css in our app code directly, see e.g. nautilus
<ochosi> bluesabre: imo that's a bad idea as gtk changes and you can never know which version of thunar will be used with which version of gtk...
<ochosi> bluesabre: that's why - so far - i have kept those patches as minimal as possible, to ensure they will work also in the future
<bluesabre> ochosi, isn't that more insulated now? Not many changes since 3.22
<bluesabre> And we're not targeting gtk4 :)
<bluesabre> My interest was in making stock xfce with adwaita closer to stock gnome... Dark panel, dark tabwin, light elsewhere
<bluesabre> Not blocky
<bluesabre> You get the idea :)
<bluesabre> Not quite gnome lite, but not ugly defaults
<TJ-> 'scuse me asking, but what is the meaning of "Adwaita" ? I see it's available across several backends
<bluesabre> TJ-: it's the default gnome/gtk theme
<bluesabre> and what most other themes are based on
<TJ-> right, but what does the word "Adwaita" mean? what original language is it, or is it 'made-up' 
<TJ-> the only thing I could find is it was a Tortoise in India!
<bluesabre> oh, that I have no idea :D
<TJ-> it doesn't exactly trip off the tongue :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: xfwm4 crashed - got the .crash file if that's any use
<ochosi> bluesabre: we already use stuff like the - fairly generic - .panel css class in the xfce4-panel
<flocculant> hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> but yeah, in theory we could try to either use classes that get the "correct" adwaita look by default (notifyd uses .osd by default) or ask the gnome folks to accept patches (which i think they won't)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-10
<flocculant> if anyone sees people wondering why they've not seen upgrade yet then bug 1766890 and it's missing from http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release-lts
<ubottu> bug 1766890 in gnome-menus (Ubuntu) "package gnome-menus 3.13.3-6ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766890
<knome> nasty
<flocculant> not as nasty as having loads of people in #xubuntu wondering what's gone wrong :p
<flocculant> that said - bug is a gnome thing and not us affected perhaps - I certainly never saw upgrades die when testing
<knome> flocculant, of course...
<Unit193> Huh, no SwissBot announce?
<Unit193> uscan: Newest version of xfdashboard on remote site is 0.7.5, local version is 0.7.4
<flocculant> those pesky Swiss's
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-11
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screenshooter 1.9.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screenshooter-1-9-3-released-tp51550.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-12
<knome> bluesabre, since you are on #launchpad... see my comments there (and https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/672116, not sure if they need explicit council approval)
<bluesabre> knome, thanks, will keep an eye on it
<knome> thanks
<knome> guess you could just comment on the question that council approves so it's there if they need it...
<knome> but feel free to save pushing buttons in case you so feel d:
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-05
<bluesabre> Unit193: good call, thanks!
<Unit193> \o/
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
<pleia2> there is some feedback about including details about the mini.iso on one of our download pages, thoughts?
<pleia2> (email to the -contacts list, I can privately forward if someone wants to read it)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-06
<Spass[m]> iirc pleia mentioned that suggestion lately, so getting back into it - I think that using the Xubuntu wallpapers/backgrounds on the main page can look pretty good, but using the ones from the newest releases (suggestion posted before used the wallpaper from disco) introduces too much maintance imho
<Spass[m]> so, I think we can think about choosing some good ones form old releases and make them stick for longer
<Spass[m]> my two suggestions - https://imgur.com/a/jQhtgjB
<Spass[m]> 1) wallpaper and plymouth background from 15.04 (one of the best imho) 2) mix of 15.04 and 16.04
<Spass[m]> those colors look good with the website theme
<Spass[m]> (another idea is LTS wallpaper on the monitor and regular release wallpaper on the laptop screen, but it may look weird...)
<TJ-> I've discovered a major problem with Thunar, and GTK bookmarks (Places) - if these are not immediately available (network or local) thunar hangs for long periods repeatedly trying to access them (despite their not being 'open' in any pane). Tracing the code it is due to thunar blindy retrying and timing out in the main GUI event handler after every change of directory rather than a) not trying at all
<TJ-> until the bookmark is activated by the user or 2) noting the failure and not dumbly retrying constantly. Not been able to find a matching bug report aside from the similar upstream #12346 but that is from 2015 and had no action.
<TJ-> From the list of untouched bugs upstream an in LP it doesn't look like anyone is actively working on it
<brainwash> TJ-: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12467
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12467 in Core "Thunar hangs on startup when unavailable systemd network shares are in bookmarks" [Major,Needinfo]
<brainwash> TJ-: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12265
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12265 in Core "When I open thunar, it hangs if a bookmark is an autofs nfs automount and the nfs mount is unavailable." [Normal,Resolved: worksforme]
<TJ-> brainwash: ooo nice find
<TJ-> brainwash: didn't go that far back!
<TJ-> looks to be it. I guess I need to try and reproduce it in the 19.10 ISO
<TJ-> brainwash: thanks, I've reported it upstream https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15789
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 15789 in Core "Hangs when Places/Bookmark target is autofs and doesn't exist/not available" [Normal,New]
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-07
<guiverc2> fyi:  I just had a second /var/crash/_sbin/plymouthd.0.crash report on first boot (post 18.04.3 install i386); I've not submitted lp.bug.report; just noted in comments; yell now if you want bug report (sudo ubuntu-bug doesn't open firefox so I assume duplicate..)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 2.3.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin-2-3-3-released-tp55119.html (by Graeme Gott)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-08
<Spass[m]> knome: torrent links for LTS are broken, we should change them to 18.04.3 point release - https://xubuntu.org/download/
<Spass[m]> I tried to edit the site, but I'm not sure what do to with [torrents release=18-04]
<Spass[m]> ah I know, I needed to edit it in the Releases section
<Spass[m]> it works now
<Spass[m]> so we're fine :)
<knome> thanks Spass[m] 
<Spass[m]> sorry for the false alarm ;) I forgot about that Releases section for a moment, my bad
<Spass[m]> (I mean, that torrent links are there also)
<flocculant> Spass[m]: I always used to get that trouble - could never find it in the docs either :p
<flocculant> thanks for doing it for people
<albinard> Unsure whether to file bug on test of ISO 0808
<Unit193> What's up?
<albinard> After installing, didn't see "Remove media and press Enter" prompt, might have pulled the USB too soon.
<guiverc> albinard, i noticed the messages had changed (and seemed to be different depending on hardware (uefi/bios most probably; some said to just re-start machine [no enter to [reboot] so i just used sysrq-reisub & noted in (for most part) in test summary - saw it on more than just xubuntu too
<albinard> Okay, thank you! I just wasn't sure at this stage of the build whether it would rise to the level of a real bug.
<guiverc> albinard, i was thinking 18.04.3 (190801, 0803 & 0805 RCs) & this was #xubuntu ; sorry maybe ignore my last ^
<Unit193> Heh, "whoops"!
<albinard> I probably should have waited to test until after the Xfce 4.14 release.
<Unit193> That's getting close now, isn't it? :D
<Unit193> I'll have so many more uploads to do. :(
<albinard> Sympathetic noises.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-09
<Unit193> New plan: Just include gottcode's games in Xubuntu!
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> He's got more than I expected, and several are in Debian.
<bluesabre> pretty cool, I'll check them out
<Unit193> bluesabre: Do you need menulibre sponsored too? :>
<guiverc> Mininimum specs for Xubuntu are 512mb ram, 5gb disk, 800x600 graphics on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements I just noted, surely that's prehistorically out-of-date?
<guiverc> I just realized the time, I'll probably change ^ for Lubuntu; I can do same for Xubuntu if I know what you'd need.. :) 
<Spass[m]> well, if you won't run Firefox I guess 512 MB RAM is OK-ish as minimal to run the system :) Xubuntu has its own page for requirements also - https://xubuntu.org/requirements/
<bluesabre> Unit193: oh, looks like I never uploaded menulibre :'D
<Unit193> :D
<Unit193> Unless you catch mapreri, offer stands.
<guiverc> thanks Spass[m], it now has 7.5GB disk, cpu with PAE & "Please refer to https://xubuntu.org/requirements/ for recommendation resources or more details"
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: ristretto 0.10.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-ristretto-0-10-0-released-tp55129.html (by Igor Zakharov)
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ristretto/0.10.0-0ubuntu1
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-10
<Unit193> bluesabre: I accidentally hit esc at the unlock screen, it went away and never came back. :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: that's unpleasant
<Unit193> TTY and killall, yeeah..
<bluesabre> :(
<Unit193> Are you docs lead now too?
<bluesabre> Not sure anymore, but I am currently doing docs-things
<Unit193> Talking to someone else about docs things: "RST worked great. pandoc converted from docbook (and rst2html and friends from there)."
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://paste.debian.net/1095209/
<bluesabre> Unit193: Guessing RST is easier to maintain, or? I'm not up to speed on differences between doc formats
<Unit193> bluesabre: Debian 802363, 802368, 802370.  Docbook hasn't been having releases or been developed for a while.
<ubottu> Debian bug 802370 in wnpp "O: docbook-xsl -- stylesheets for processing DocBook XML to various output formats" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/802370
<ubottu> Debian bug 802368 in wnpp "O: docbook-xml -- standard XML documentation system for software and systems" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/802368
<ubottu> Debian bug 802363 in wnpp "O: docbook -- standard SGML representation system for technical documents" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/802363
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-11
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-dev-tools 4.14.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-dev-tools-4-14-0-released-tp55174.html (by Romain Bouvier)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: libxfce4util 4.14.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-libxfce4util-4-14-0-released-tp55176.html (by Romain Bouvier)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: catfish 1.4.9 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-catfish-1-4-9-released-tp55179.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: parole 1.0.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-parole-1-0-4-released-tp55180.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-screensaver 0.1.8 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-screensaver-0-1-8-released-tp55182.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-datetime-plugin 0.8.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-datetime-plugin-0-8-0-released-tp55185.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-places-plugin 1.8.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-places-plugin-1-8-1-released-tp55186.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin 0.4.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin-0-4-2-released-tp55190.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-weather-plugin 0.10.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-weather-plugin-0-10-0-released-tp55192.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: exo 0.12.8 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-exo-0-12-8-released-tp55194.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-session 4.14.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-session-4-14-0-released-tp55196.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: libxfce4ui 4.14.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-libxfce4ui-4-14-0-released-tp55198.html (by Romain Bouvier)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-settings 4.14.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-settings-4-14-0-released-tp55201.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfdesktop 4.14.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfdesktop-4-14-0-released-tp55202.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfconf 4.14.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfconf-4-14-0-released-tp55205.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfwm4 4.14.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfwm4-4-14-0-released-tp55207.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: libxfce4ui 4.14.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-libxfce4ui-4-14-1-released-tp55209.html (by Romain Bouvier)
<Unit193> If I can figure out bootstrap order, I plan to update these in order so everything is built against 4.14.  It shouldn't matter, but eh.
<ochosi> you could ask ermo, he should know the bootstrap order
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.14.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-panel-4-14-0-released-tp55211.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<Unit193> -dev-tools, util, ui, garcon, xfce4-panel is my guess.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-genmon-plugin 4.0.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-genmon-plugin-4-0-2-released-tp55213.html (by Tony Paulic-2)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: tumbler 0.2.7 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-tumbler-0-2-7-released-tp55215.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-appfinder 4.14.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-appfinder-4-14-0-released-tp55217.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar-volman 0.9.5 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-volman-0-9-5-released-tp55218.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.8.9 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-8-9-released-tp55221.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfconf 4.14.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfconf-4-14-1-released-tp55222.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-power-manager 1.6.5 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-power-manager-1-6-5-released-tp55225.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-03
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
<dmy> Hello, I'd like to contribute with a new visualization mode for the xfce4-cpugraph-plugin:what is the right way to submit the code?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-04
<jphilips> bluesabre: reminder to schedule a meeting, as its only 2 months before the next release :D
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: seed shims signed with Canonical keys. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=ac101c88a5ca6ee390082eb517e9e1c2bb83848c (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-05
<Unit193> So in case anyone missed the note: Xubuntu core 20.10 builds have been fixed, they boot now in KVM, hardware, and loopback.  No clue if EFI works but such is life.
<guiverc> issue with 20.04.1 qa-test, here on #xubuntu.. auto-resize isn't allowing "download updates" checkbox to be changed, and has my location wrong - if I switch to term I have IP address, good routing detail & can ping external addresses; want a lp bug? or ignore (minor or petty issue in my opinion)
<guiverc> (note I've rebooted & had the same twice) ; should I ask here or #xubuntu was first bit, sorry
<Unit193> OK, so -sensors and -cpufreq don't build with gcc-10, IIRC one or both have fixes in git but the former has a dev release that doesn't build on arm either. \o/
<jphilips> does anyone change swappiness from the 60 default?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: promote targetcli-fb and its dependencies to main @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=3d7784098dd32729f09e1ff73edad38f7221e1a8 (by Rafael David Tinoco)
<DarkTrick> How could I change content on this page: https://xubuntu.org/dev/  Does it work like a wiki after getting necessary permissions?
<pleia2> that's page is part of our wordpress site, so the way to request changes is by submitting a bug (or just asking here)
<pleia2> if you want to submit a bug, can use https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-website/issues
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-06
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in es @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/00e929a4bc7767c63d79367ed0b2ea9a7f532e70 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in es @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/23786e593f4ef2553d2fd3017cd02f099680e1c8 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in es @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/b043626d40eb81455da97fbf8c915339fe7b7caa (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in es @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/1eca208092cf083c5b565c397ddd68fd711693a2 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in es @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/9b5709588f0bb5d63674f4f2473fdda5d0edb283 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in es @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/3cfcf6e6cb66205eedeca44fc3faca5cfcd5d827 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in es @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/ba69de7affecbfd03d5349f20822b635c6649819 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: tumbler 0.2.9 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-tumbler-0-2-9-released-tp59345.html (by Ali Abdallah-6)
<jphilips> pleia2, bluesabre: are we announcing the .1 release today?
<pleia2> does it enable the lts>lts upgrades?
<pleia2> and/or fix anything else that was important during the initial release?
<pleia2> this is all we did for 18.04, we can do something similar, I just want it to be true (like, high-impact bugs were actually fixed ;)) https://xubuntu.org/news/18-04-1-released/
<jphilips> bluesabre mentioned in the release notes that .1 should fix the amd bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu/+bug/1873895
<ubot93> Launchpad bug 1873895 in xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu (Ubuntu) "Regression: block staircase display with side-by-side monitors of different pixel widths" [High, Confirmed]
<jphilips> and also that window decorations on VNC would be fixed by .1
<pleia2> ah yes, that was one we mentioned in the initial release announcement
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/jIhtYPO.png
<pleia2> that one too!
<pleia2> so yes, I think it's worth drafting something up real quick
<pleia2> I am swamped with real work right now :( but I can review something if you want to write a draft
<jphilips> the amd bug seems to still not be fixed
<pleia2> aww
<jphilips> the torrent link on the download page doesnt work
<jphilips> https://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/focal/release/desktop/xubuntu-20.04-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent
<pleia2> yeah, we need to update for .1
<jphilips> okay fixed that
<jphilips> the mirrors don't seem to have a 20.04.1 folder
<jphilips> http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/xubuntu/releases/
<jphilips> okay some do https://mirrors.tuna.tsinghua.edu.cn/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu/releases/20.04.1/release/
<jphilips> oh wait, those are still the .0 links in it
<pleia2> yeah, they take hours (or a day+) to propagate, depending on how often they pull from the source
<pleia2> some only do it daily
<jphilips> so nothing for us to do there, but how to point it to the .1 folders once they are propagated?
<pleia2> I don't remember how it works :\
<jphilips> knome: will you be handling this once the .1 folders are created?
<krytarik> jphilips: I'm curious what happened to the effort of updating xubuntu-docs?  Because last I know is nothing has ever been committed to the VCS yet, and some pending stuff might be in various Google docs not linked anywhere.
<jphilips> krytarik: the effort is ongoing and can be found here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KpmN_tCOHaDwQgNtqyyt6DqZ7M0xSMCNTadORcY_Whw/edit#
<krytarik> I'm asking because it went rather silent around it recently.
<jphilips> once bluesabre sets things up so that we can translate the new version, we will then begin pushing the updates to the github repo
<Unit193> Mmm, so nothing has come of that effort yet, then. :/
<jphilips> alot of work has been done in the google docs but nothing transferred to the repo yet
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-07
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, it was after I started to push the changes into the docs that I learned how fickle the validation is: https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/runs/884785119
<bluesabre> And then things got crazy, and then I went on vacation, and then I got back and things got crazy again :'D
<bluesabre> So the content has been progressing, but I haven't brought it all into version control yet
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-08
<jphilips> Unit193: about this line in the QA staging ppa 'This PPA currently provides Bionic packages for Artful.', is it something you can fix or do we pass this along to bluesabre
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-09
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfwm4 4.14.5 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfwm4-4-14-5-released-tp59349.html (by Olivier Fourdan)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfwm4 4.15.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfwm4-4-15-1-released-tp59350.html (by Olivier Fourdan)
<DarkTrick> XUbuntu should've not stopped support for 19.10 so early. 20.04 is basically a mess regarding stability and usability of applications :(
<bluesabre> DarkTrick: Let us know what issues youâre being affected by and we can prioritize them.
<DarkTrick> VLC crashing with seg fault (found workaround: starting with `env MESA_LOADER_DRIVER_OVERRIDE=i965`), bug is already reported. 
<DarkTrick> FreeCAD fails to start: apparently some dependency problems
<DarkTrick> QGIS had problems after upgrading: apparently the upgrade process messed things up in regard of used repos.. weird stuff happend (I think I had that reported)
<DarkTrick> LibreOffice Impress: bugs in presentation mode: Not yet investigated further, if it's already patched in version 7
<DarkTrick> and I'm experience much more thunar crashes recently. But that one, I should probably try fix myself
