#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-13
<abarbaccia> hey all - quick question - are the 2.6.12 breezy kernels stable?
<Mithrandir> abarbaccia: no
<Mithrandir> that is, they're not blessed as stable.
<Mithrandir> they might be, or not.
<tseng> they wont go "gold" until at least linus makes a final release
<tseng> so no linux-restricted modules and stuff
<abarbaccia> tseng, alright - but as of now, are they runnable?
<tseng> it works for me is about all I can say.
<abarbaccia> sounds great - and do you know if ubuntu has the msp5xx modules in them?
<tseng> brandon@lappy:~/work/debian/blam-1.8.0$ find /lib/modules -iname *msp5*
<tseng> at a quick glance, no.
<abarbaccia> wait...hold on
<abarbaccia> might've mispelled it
<abarbaccia> spca5xx
<abarbaccia> way off on that one
<Unfrgiven> good morning all
<tseng> hi.
<Unfrgiven> tseng: how are you
<tseng> good thanks
<tseng> /lib/modules/2.6.12-1-686/kernel/drivers/usb/media/spca5xx
<tseng> /lib/modules/2.6.12-1-686/kernel/drivers/usb/media/spca5xx/spca5xx.ko
<tseng> better.
<abarbaccia> AWESOME - great - i'm gonna try and upgrade in a little bit - thanks man
<tseng> nps
<SEBest> tseng why some drivers are in -source package and other are in kernel-modules?
<tseng> you mean restricted-modules?
<SEBest> and some are in both like ipw2100
<tseng> ipw2100 is a free driver
<tseng> but non free firmware
<tseng> non-free things go in restricted
<SEBest> yes but it's available from 2 ways right?
<tseng> im not sure how to be any clearer
<tseng> there are two parts, one is free, one is not
<tseng> so they are distributed in seperate packages accordingly
<tseng> we cant put non-free software in main with the rest of the kernel modules
<SEBest> oki i got it
<SEBest> i asked because there is a free driver that i need but it's not in the kernel, should i package it?
<tseng> depending what it is it could be added
<SEBest> it's a kernel module that give support for laptop hotkeys
<SEBest> http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:rFYXY839Vb0J:www.informatik.hu-berlin.de/~tauber/acerhk/+acerhk&hl=fr&client=firefox
<tseng> can you file a bug on that?
<SEBest> tseng on malone?
<tseng> on bugzilla
<SEBest> oki
<tseng> main is still not on malone
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ping?
<Unfrgiven> im having a problem with a package that currently depends on a non-existent pacakge. \sh has fixed the package and uploaded the source. an "apt-get source ocaml-findlib" gives me \sh's updated source but an "apt-get install ocaml-findlib" tries to fetch the old package which doesnt work because of broken deps. now i have a package dependant on ocaml-findlib and i cant transition it because of this problem. how long does it take to build the binary pack
<lamont> ctypes needs gcc-4.0 love
<lamont> as does cyrus-sasl2-mit
<lamont> doxymacs, eli, elvis-tiny, goo, libcorba-orbit-perl also need gcc-4.0 love
<lamont> libgnome-gnorba-perl just needs xorg love
<Unfrgiven> lamont: im happy to take up a few of those... do they need patches or just need to be rebuilt?
<lamont> Unfrgiven: they are all ftbfs with gcc-4.0, although I expect that several of them are unchanged from hoary, and therefore in the archive for breezy
<lamont> all will need a patch either in themselves, or in a build-dep.
<lamont> (they should  be ftbfs in a clean breezy chroot today.  95% sure on that..)
* lamont is actually looking at hppa build failures, but those look to be arch-indep failures.
<lamont> gcc -o xshodo       -L/usr/X11R6/lib   xshodo.o -lXaw -lXmu -lXt -lSM -lICE -lXpm -lXp -lXext -lX11
<lamont> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXp
<lamont> xshodo could be hppa specific, but is more likely just xorg-unhappy in some way (missing build-dep???)
<ajmitch> morning all
<tseng> hi aj
* ajmitch catches up on the latest d-d flamage
<ajmitch> it's always so entertaining, and illustrates well why debian took this long to get sarge to this point :)
<whiprush> hey tseng
<tseng> hi whiprush
<tseng> wtf have you been :P
<whiprush> got any better pics of you? I only have 2
<whiprush> My coworker makes good hackerheads.
<tseng> hm i couldnt find the other links
<tseng> when i was looking
<tseng> i thought you had posted them all
<whiprush> I got these 2: http://www.flickr.com/photos/whiprush/13477621/
<whiprush> http://www.flickr.com/photos/whiprush/13477896/
<whiprush> that last one might work.
<schweeb> whiprush: make Jet's pizza arrive at my house now, plz. kthxbai
<tseng> man
<tseng> that place was so good
<whiprush> a bob2 hackergotchi would be awesome.
<tseng> "bob2 in 'up in smoke'"
<tseng> i love his hair
<whiprush> yes
<tseng> yeah who has more udu photos
<whiprush> hey tseng, how far are you from columbus ohio?
<tseng> erm
<tseng> hours
<schweeb> whiprush: when is ohio linuxfest thingy?
<tseng> im about an hour west of philly
<whiprush> http://www.ohiolinux.org/
<whiprush> we're speaking there. You should come.
<schweeb> that's not so bad... like 4 hours dude
<schweeb> oh
<schweeb> not till october
<schweeb> sweet
<tseng> http://www.photonski.com/images/90614/large < me and jdub
<schweeb> anyone konw when the presses Hoary CDs are supposed to show up?
<tseng> schweeb: i have mine.
<schweeb> yea, but you got it at UdU
<tseng> no
<tseng> i got 2 at udu
<schweeb> didn't you
<schweeb> o_O
<tseng> i got 70 in the mail
<tseng> its first come first serve
<tseng> but they are going out
<schweeb> yea, I definitely ordered some like as soon as they switched em to hoary
<schweeb> shipit says they haven't shipped yet :-/
<tseng> whiprush: ah http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuDownUnder
<whiprush> yeah
<schweeb> I'm downloading right now, and that makes me sad
<whiprush> that's the list of galleries.
<schweeb> i want my pressed goodness
<whiprush> I just make iso's with jigdo until mine come in.
<tseng> schweeb: dude the art is lame
<schweeb> tseng: don't care about art. care about not having to download CDs to give to friends :p
<tseng> but they will be like, rofl that art is so lame
<ajmitch> hi schweeb, whiprush
<whiprush> hi aj
<whiprush> tseng: you're giving CDs to the wrong friends.
<whiprush> find the nice looking ones.
<whiprush> "It's all about love and linux, dear."
<schweeb> ajmitch: what up
<Unfrgiven> sorry to repeat the question but I got noreplies earlier and now there are plenty of peopl around :) im having a problem with a package that currently depends on a non-existent pacakge. \sh has fixed the package and uploaded the source. an "apt-get source ocaml-findlib" gives me \sh's updated source but an "apt-get install ocaml-findlib" tries to fetch the old package which doesnt work because of broken deps. now i have a package dependant on ocaml-fin
<whiprush> hey it's Unfrgiven! Long time!
<Unfrgiven> whiprush: hey dude. yeah its been a while. i havent seen you on irc for ages
<whiprush> I've been lurking.
<schweeb> Unfrgiven: it takes a while for it to build and be propagated to archives
<Unfrgiven> schweeb: ball park figure? days? weeks? months?
<schweeb> day at the most
<schweeb> if build is successful
<schweeb> you know how to check the build-logs?
<Unfrgiven> schweeb: nup
<whiprush> so tseng try to make that ohio thing, they had over 400 people there last year, should be bigger this time. We'll get CDs and indoctrinate everyone.
<whiprush> mwahahaha
<tseng> whiprush: it would be a long trip
<whiprush> dude, we
<schweeb> Unfrgiven: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/
<whiprush> re renting a van
<whiprush> heh.
<whiprush> road triping.
<tseng> plus i dont want to use a bunch of vacation time
<whiprush> k
<tseng> if i can get into more ubuntu confs
<whiprush> I'm saving up for the next guadec
<tseng> thats a year away
<tseng> and only 3 days
<whiprush> heh
<whiprush> flying to europe isn't cheap. :-/
<tseng> oh saving $
<Unfrgiven> have they decided a venue for the next ubuntu conf yet?
<tseng> not officially
<whiprush> don't think so
<Unfrgiven> tseng: unofficially where are they considering?
<tseng> ive heard Brazil a few times but that doesnt mean anything
<whiprush> yeah me too
<tseng> it could be anywhere in Africa or North/South America
<schweeb> Brazil would be sweet
<whiprush> brazil would be great
<schweeb> I'd definitely go
<schweeb> hottt chicks there
<tseng> schweeb: hah you dont leave the hotel
<tseng> keep that in mind
<schweeb> tseng: I'll arrive a few days early ;)
<tseng> yep
<tseng> you have to
<tseng> i was on too short notice to work that out
<tseng> schweeb: ill stay with you too!
<schweeb> alright!
<schweeb> and if I don't get sponsored, and just show up, I don't have to stay the whole time :p
<whiprush> I hope Typhoid Sladen comes again so we can all almost get killed again.
<tseng> yay for sladen
<Unfrgiven> haha
<tseng> hm almost time for family guy
<tseng> schweeb: also, ill make you go out to eat with me
<tseng> schweeb: there is a large number of vegetarians/vegans, so we end up getting cattered alot of silly leafy green stuff
<crimsun> vegetarians++
<schweeb> tseng: vegetarians!
<schweeb> vegans?
<schweeb> they'll be happy to know I hunt and kill animals
<schweeb> and then eat their flash
<schweeb> *flesh
<crimsun> mm flesh
<schweeb> crimsun: you need to come to Ohio LinuxFest as well
<crimsun> hmm, what's the date?
<schweeb> Oct 1
<schweeb> I believe
<crimsun> that's feasible
<schweeb> indeed
<crimsun> I could make an excuse to go up to OSU or something
<schweeb> I believe Mako may go
<schweeb> it's at Ohio State
<crimsun> well that settles that!
<schweeb> ooh
<schweeb> I just realized
<schweeb> there's a chapter of my fraternity there
<schweeb> party++
<crimsun> nice!
<schweeb> tseng: family guy
<abarbaccia> hey all - i'm having trouble finding the ubuntu 2.6.12 kernel to install - i have all the breezy sources
<zul> abarbaccia: this a #ubuntu question but its found in universe
<abarbaccia> zul, the package linux-2.6.12 is not found.
<abarbaccia> zul, sorry, nevermind
<lamont> schweeb: note that most of my recent package blurbs aren't found under ~lamont/buildLogs - hppa logs don't get there yet. :-(
<lamont> hrm.. which gdk-pixbuf-query didn't hang on hppa... :-(
<schweeb> lamont: meh, hppa's unofficial :p
<lamont> schweeb: yeah, if I cared I'd try doing the build on i386 and then fight with malone to file the bug for real...  most of those failures are i386 failures, but we won't find them until we fire off breezy-test this month
<lamont> s/are/are also at least/
<lamont> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: format of libFreeWRLFunc.so not recognized
<lamont> freewrl scary
<lamont> it would be less scary if it actually built the .so file sometime during the build....
<lamont> ac3dec_wrap.c:51: error: static declaration of 'program_name' follows non-static declaration
<lamont> ../include/debug_print.h:7: error: previous declaration of 'program_name' was here
<lamont> ogle needs gcc-4.0 love
<Amaranth> that's the most common gcc 4 error
<Amaranth> did we decide to go with what the .h says or what the .c says?
<nalioth> howdy
<\sh> morning
<nalioth> howdy
<nalioth> or should i say "good evening"
<Mithrandir> 'morning
<nalioth> evenin'
<nalioth> y'all awake now?
<jsgotangco> i can manage
<nalioth> just had a question about joinin the ubuntu team. is this the right place or is there a better room?
<jsgotangco> ask anyway, maybe we can anwer
<nalioth> it says make a wiki documenting my work. that would be long hours wasting time in #ubuntu and a few PPC pkgs i rolled up via apt?
<nalioth> or do i need to make an informative 'howto' wiki?
<\sh> nalioth: document your work for ubuntu on your wiki page http://wiki.ubuntu.com/<FirstLastName>
<jsgotangco> nalioth, just do whatever thing you've been doing for now and contribute whatever you like, document it on the wiki, let people (like in here) know what you've been doing and put your name on the list on the CC meeting agenda in the wiki for consideration
<jsgotangco> the community will back you up if you talk the talk
<\sh> nalioth: follow the new member process on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<nalioth> fer instance witnesses to my overrunning mouth in #ubuntu
<nalioth> like bob2 or amaranth (they see me each day)
<jsgotangco> nalioth, you can post that
<jsgotangco> nalioth, whatever helps Ubuntu
<nalioth> well i just run my mouth in #ubuntu, and let bob2 and Amaranth and them handle the brain work
<jsgotangco> well its really up to you if you think you're member material, just back it up with contribs, etc. and the community will vouch for you
<nalioth> well i got a PPC i've had apt build some pkgs for (don't mind doin that)
<nalioth> but i'll run all that into the wiki and might write a howto to further take some of the "how do i power up" questions out of the channels way
<nalioth> alrighty thank ya
<nalioth> time for bed
<DanielN> morning
<pippovic> Hi
<\sh> DanielN: are u a member now?
<DanielN> \sh: why do u think?
<DanielN> away
<DanielN> shortly
<\sh> DanielN: if u r a member now :) please remove yourself from the Council Agenda
<DanielN> \sh: but i don't now anything about a membership of me :)
<DanielN> \sh: what time is UTC 22:00 here in germany (or switzerland) ?
<jsgotangco> use this
<jsgotangco> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html
<DanielN> jsgotangco: thanks.. but that means, that the communitycouncil meeting tonight is @ 24:00 in my local time ;(
<jsgotangco> 24:00 is not so bad, i used to attend CC meeting at 5AM in my time
<jsgotangco> (but im not going to do it again)
<dooglus> do you guys deal with the 'multiverse' packages too?  do you have a bug reporting system for them?  or is there another group that deals with multiverse?
<\sh> DanielN: 00:00
<\sh> DanielN: u should attend :)
<DanielN> \sh: ok.. i'll be there
<tseng> hi.
<tseng> supposed to be fedora core 4 today
<tseng> hm next week it says
<Treenaks> tseng: if both debian and fc release, the internet would collapse ;)
<tseng> Treenaks: i dunno
<tseng> Treenaks: im connected to 2 ds3s
<tseng> as for the rest of the world..
* #ubuntu-motu  [freenode-info]  help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<DanielN> mhm
<DanielN> seems that sarge is going stable at this moment
<DanielN> troll msg off :)
<\sh> ogra: can we adjust the timing of the motu meeting?
<tseng> \sh: yes, we'll make it 3am your time.
<tseng> nps
<\sh> the date I mean...not the time :)
<tseng> well dholbach already posted it to d-d
<tseng> if you care.
* ogra has no probs with 3am
<Treenaks> ogra: scary
<ogra> \sh, to when would you like to move it ?
<ajmitch> when is the meeting scheduled for?
<ogra> 20th
<ajmitch> time?
<\sh> tseng: when he posted the date?
<ogra> 2200 UTC
<ajmitch> hmm..
<tseng> \sh: he posted a link to the wiki, where the date was
<ajmitch> 10am on 21st here, should be ok for me
<tseng> \sh: people dont assume that once they read that page they have to keep checking back for random changes.
<ogra> as long as we only postpone it, it would be fine with me.... \sh
<\sh> ogra: earlier...because it's an important matter ...
<ogra> i cant earlier... at lest i'm very short of tme until the end of next week
<\sh> ok..then lets leave it until the 21
<tseng> 20th
<tseng> ajmitch is a day ahead
<\sh> for me it's 21st ;) 00:00 GMT+2
<ajmitch> time for me to sleep anyway, bbl
<doko> ajmitch: ping
<ajmitch> doko: pong
<jbailey> ajmitch: And by "sleep" you mean...
<ajmitch> jbailey: a friend from canberra just started talking to me, I was intending to go :)
<ajmitch> he's installing ubuntu for a zope devel server, so it's perfectly relevant :)
<lamont> xpaint needs xorg include love
<mgalvin> hi all
<mgalvin> can i use the reportbug in ubuntu to file an itp for debian?
<doko> \sh: ping
<\sh> doko: ping
<\sh> aeh pong
<ofr> hi
<ogra> hi ofr
<mgalvin> is it possible to have a package sync from debian?
<ogra> mgalvin, sure, we do it all day
<mgalvin> i finished updating libcwd and i already got it into Debian
<ogra> in fact the prefered process is to get your changes rather into debian and sync them then to make them in ubuntu
<ogra> mgalvin, err, the debian version contains the c++ changes ?
<mgalvin> right, libcwd is in debian and i would like to see it brought into breezy if possible
<ogra> which bnary name ?
<mgalvin> only a fix to make it work with gcc4
<ogra> binary even
<ogra> hrm...
<mgalvin> libcwd0
<mgalvin> it was an upstream fix
<ogra> wrong name
<mgalvin> thats what it's called in debian, does debian need the "c2" appended also?
<\sh> "MOTUS uffjepass" or in english, everybody please listen who has some cxx work on the todo (and was marking them on cxxlibrarylist) :))
<Treenaks> libcwd.. what's wrong with getcwd()
<mgalvin> this is a c++ debugging lib
<mgalvin> http://libcwd.sourceforge.net/
<Treenaks> ah
<\sh> Everybody who has no time to transition the cxx libs  on their list (marked with their irc nick), please remove yourself from the list, so the others can take over and fill in the gaps
<ogra> Treenaks, it needs to get transitioned (c++) for breezy, so its not a sync
<Mithrandir> ogra: if it's a new package, not appending c2 is fine.
<ogra> Mithrandir, apt-cache show libcwd0c2
<Mithrandir> ogra: sir, sigackpong, sir.
<ogra> lol
<mgalvin> ok, so should i make the transition changes in order for this to get into breezy?
<DanielN> \sh: i'll have to put 2 of my libs to someone other cause there are some compiling errors with gcc4
<ogra> mgalvin, yep
<ogra> mgalvin, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList
<ogra> there are patches available....
<ogra> mgalvin, is your package newer then  0.99.39-1 ?
<mgalvin> yes, its version 0.99.40-2
<ogra> hmm, any idea why that thing is in multiverse ?
<\sh> DanielN: doesn't matter....remove yourself from the list
<\sh> DanielN: we will take care about it
<mgalvin> ogra, nope
<ofr> ogra: i was writing to you concerning kino. i probably needs to be rebuilt with gcc 4, too
<ogra>  ofr ah, sorry, i didnt answer yet.... if it needs transition we'll have to wait until all the libs are done
<ogra> hmm, but it doesnt look like it has any C++ dependencys....
<DanielN> \sh: thx .. i'll fix other libs, without compile errors
<ofr> ogra: you mean external deps? it is written in c++ though
<ogra> ofr, sure ? there is no dependency on any c++ stuff in the package
<ofr> yeah sure :)
<ogra>  apt-cache showsrc kino
<ogra> so i suspect its just C
<ofr> it is using iostream, iomanip among others
<ogra> ah, yeps, i see, it depends on libvorbisenc2
<DanielN> i kept the bug open in bugzilla, just removed my name
<DanielN> so they're free for overtaking :)
<\sh> ok...time to go home
<\sh> cu later
<DanielN> cu \sh
<mgalvin> later \sh
<ofr> ogra: so should i start building packages with gcc 4 on my breezy system?
<ofr> then i will probably detect any problems, too
<ogra> ofr, or help us with the C++ transition.... http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList
<ofr> yeah sure
<ofr> i can do that too
<ogra> ofr, they mostly just need renaming and its a easy task to get familiar with packaging and the pbuilder :)
<ofr> my question was just aimed at the development platform
<ofr> i'll try to get started tonight at home
<ogra> there is nothing else we develop for :) a breezy pbuilder to build breezy packages :)
<ogra> ofr, btw, if you havent seen it yet: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PbuilderHowto
<ogra> very helpful :)
<ofr> thanks
<ofr> will print it out, take it home
<ogra> :)
* ogra grins about printing press guys that need to print everything *G*
<ofr> yeah true
<ofr> bad habit
<ogra> heh... but understandable :)
<\sh> re
<\sh> guys...what was the name, from this "plain patch tool", it's just called like dpatch-edit-patch but with something else then dpatch
<\sh> cdbs-edit-patch ;)
<tseng> hi
<mgalvin> hi tseng
<\sh> hoi tseng
<\sh> doko: masssync or hand?
<doko> no, just rebuilds
<\sh> hmm...now i don't know
<\sh> ajmitch: ping
<\sh> anyways...will do them all
<\sh> argl
<\sh> ajmitch: i will upload some libs of yours, where I found debdiffs for
<nalioth> howdy
<tritium> Hi nalioth
<nalioth> tritium: did ya see my ??s in #ubuntu?
<tritium> nalioth, no, I didn't see any nick highlights.
<nalioth> didnt preface them with "tritium" as they were generally meant for those who might know
<nalioth> tritium: is there a page to skewl me in how to make a wiki/myname page?
<tritium> nalioth, sorry to have missed them
<nalioth> my intelligence level isnt allowing my comprehension of "how to make a wiki"
<nalioth> i went to the 'sandbox' page, but didnt see an "edit' button or link
<nalioth> just recycled em for ya
<tritium> I don't recall there being a wiki page on how to make a wiki page...I've only gone through the process once, so my memory is very vague
<mitsuhiko> nalioth: you must be registered
<nalioth> mitsuhiko: ok then
<nalioth> had too many instructions
<nalioth> and i thought that what i was doing was part of registration
<nalioth> where (besides in front of my face) is the link to registe?
<nalioth> cuz im at the frontpage and see nothing on registration
<nalioth> i'm tryin to do the wiki thing for consideration of membership
<nalioth> its really vexing cuz i don't see a registration thing, only the new member proceedings which i'm tryin to follow
<HiddenWolf> where can I find my .session file?
* nalioth is beggining to see the high level of entry to the community
<mgalvin> ogra, i finally got a min to do the cxx transition of libcwd, should i file a bug report of this or should i put it on the wiki for review?
<tseng> mgalvin: cxx stuff gets a bug report w/ patch
<tseng> aiui
<mgalvin> tseng, ok, but this is a completly new package version also, would that mean we should bring in the new version that i already got into Debian then patch that here?
<tseng> erm wow
<tseng> we froze CXX stuff so we could fix what we have now and not worry about moving versions
<tseng> fix it and then update it.
<mgalvin> ok in which the current version was already fixed, so i guess my new version will come in from debian at a later time
<\sh> source upload now ;)
<mgalvin> ok, so hopefully i can actually make myself useful ;)
<mgalvin> is anyone working on transitioning showimg?
<\sh> showimg?
<\sh> application?
<mgalvin> its on the cxxlibrary list :-/ but it deps on libkexif so i am doing that first
<\sh> phew
<mgalvin> ls
<mgalvin> ls
<mgalvin> dang, oops ;)
<GheRivero> res
<nalioth> pardon me, but i havent been able to find this on the wiki. what channel is the council meetin held in?
<whiprush> #ubuntu-meeting
<\sh> #ubuntu-meeting
<nalioth> thank ya
* nalioth finally overcame his intelligence level
<\sh> libbonobomm1.3_1.3.8-2.2ubuntu1.diff.gz
<\sh>  libbonobomm1.3_1.3.8-2.2ubuntu1.dsc
<\sh> they're already on the archive
<\sh> but where is the binary
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks
<tseng> http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/beagle/Util/Util.dll.config.in?rev=1.2&view=markup
<tseng> yay!
<\sh> grmpflmpf
<tseng> heffalumps and woozles?
<\sh> yes
<\sh> libbonobomm1.3-9c2_1.3.8-2.2ubuntu1_i386.deb is missing on the servers
<\sh> source package is there...but
<\sh> grmpfmpf
<tseng> yeah i cant --reinstall gamin either
<\sh> k...no meeting, no binary, missing compilestatus, time to go to bed :)
<dholbac1> ok, i'm off to bed now too
<tseng> bye.
<dholbac1> have a nice evening
<\sh> u too :)
<\sh> g'night too :)
<dholbac1> :)))
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-14
<SquishyWaffle> Quick question for you guys, do most of you use cdbs for packaging or just do it with debhelper?
<tseng> we do cdbs for new packages where it makes sense
<SquishyWaffle> What qualified 'makes sense'? I haven't actually used cdbs so I'm not sure when you'd use it
<tseng> well cdbs is about inheritance
<tseng> once you override every function to do something nonstandard..
<tseng> was it worth it?
<SquishyWaffle> ah, ok
<SquishyWaffle> So for packages where you are just tossing files down rather than compiling anything, am I beter off with debhelper or cdbs? This is mainly what I was pondering for java stuff.
<tseng> youd have to talk to wasabi about java stuff
<tseng> I havent the slightest.
<tseng> is there a reason he isnt in here?
<uniq> i'd suggest looking at the source of a similar package.
<SquishyWaffle> yeah, I'm still trying to figure out how it all works :)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ping?
<Unfrgiven> morning all
<tseng> hi
<tseng> \sh went to sleep
<Unfrgiven> tseng: bummer... looks like i missed him by like an hour...
* HostingGeek complains about mono deps dipite the topic
<HostingGeek> Look you are going to get more complaints if you have that in the topic
<HostingGeek> you know this genration
<ajmitch> hello all
<DanielN> argh
<DanielN> can't understand that
<Unfrgiven> DanielN: cant understand what?
<DanielN> Unfrgiven: my orig.tar.gz size is bigger, than noted in the md5sum...
<Unfrgiven> so why dont you redownload the md5sum and the tarball just to make sure?
<DanielN> i am just sure
<DanielN> got error, if i want to install ith with apt-get source
<Unfrgiven> DanielN: im sorry, i dont follow
<DanielN> Unfrgiven: i made a package myself.. and now, debian/control contains a wrong .orig.tar size entrie
<DanielN> Unfrgiven: and this ends up in an error msg, if you want to get source via apt
<\sh> size entry in control?
<\sh> good morning btw
<DanielN> argh
<DanielN> good morning
<DanielN> its in the Source file i mean
<DanielN> Sources
<DanielN> argh2
<DanielN> and in the .dsc file too
<DanielN> 30418 .. but orig.tar.gz is 30420 big
<\sh> DanielN: redo the dsc and all
<\sh> remove .diff.gz, .dsc
<\sh> enter the debianized source
<\sh> and debuild -S
<DanielN> \sh: i can try it...
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> i have another problem
<DanielN> argh
<DanielN> i found the fscking error
<DanielN> i created a new .orig.tar.gz and didn't upload it... so that's why there's an md5sum mismatch error
<\sh> then u need to make a source upload
<DanielN> yeah
<DanielN> but i don't know, how this works
<DanielN> cause it happens always an not source upload, when im packaging :)
<\sh> debuild -S -sa
<DanielN> \sh: thanks alot
<\sh> u're welcome
<\sh> wuahahahaha
<\sh> i don't believe it
<\sh> kdolphin is using my picture of a debian sarge box, which I found in someones onlineshop...now there is a japanese announcement of debian sarge with a german sarge box *rotfl*
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> hehe
<\sh> http://www.kdolphin.org/?p=14
<siretart> morning
<\sh> hey siretart
<GheRivero> re
* Amaranth goes to bed
<siretart> gn8 Amaranth
<ofr> hello
<\sh> hi ofr
<ajmitch> \sh: what packages did you upload that I was working on?
<\sh> ajmitch: moment...i will tell u just now
<ajmitch> I saw libcommoncpp2
<ajmitch> which was already uploaded, but did need resynced again
<\sh> ajmitch: libcommoncpp2 has a new debian package, i synced it and uploaded
<\sh> waiting for the archives
<\sh> libccscript
<\sh> i uploaded
<\sh> and compiled..see bugzilla
<\sh> libccrtp also new packages, w8 for build (depends on libcommoncpp2)
<\sh> and i think libccaudio
<\sh> also uploaded but not compiled right now
<ajmitch> I didn't get any new mail from bugzilla
<\sh> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11542
<\sh> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11542
<\sh> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11099
<\sh> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11540
<\sh> some of them they didn't have a bugzilla entry until yesterday
<ajmitch> I don't know if it was really necessary to rename libcommoncpp2-1.3
<\sh> ajmitch: debian did it as well
<ajmitch> since there was never any binary in ubuntu built against the old api
<\sh> and kamion wanted this rename
<ajmitch> s/api/abi/
<ajmitch> ok..
<ajmitch> I guedss just to keep everything in line with debian
<\sh> we had a discussion yesterday on #u-d
<\sh> ajmitch: i had to adjust debian/control c/r lines
<ajmitch> obviously :)
<\sh> doko: can u check universe/libs/libccaudio_1.1.2-1ubuntu1: Not-For-Us [optional:out-of-date] 
<ivoks> hi
<\sh> hey ivoks
<ivoks> sorry, i'm not too much help these days..
<ivoks> i didn't sleep last few nights... i have so many things to do on faculty
<ivoks> well... just camed to say hi
<ivoks> back to drawing board
<ivoks> bye
<ofr> hi
<Unfrgiven> \sh: hi
<\sh> hi Unfrgiven
<Unfrgiven> how r u
<Unfrgiven> ive tried doing gmetadom
<Unfrgiven> but its dependant on findlib
<Unfrgiven> and findlib doesnt currently build :(
<\sh> Unfrgiven: yeah I know..waiting for ocaml to build correctly
<Unfrgiven> \sh: damn ocaml :P
<\sh> ofr: u r the one from telepolis?
<\sh> Unfrgiven: lemme check...doko uploaded it again the last time
<ofr> sh: yeah. i havent written anything for tp in a long time, though
<ofr> sh: so who are you? :)
<\sh> ofr: well, an old fart, who dealt with harald m. a long time ago :)
<ofr> sh: what are you working on in ubuntu=
<ofr> ?
<tseng> hi
<Unfrgiven> tseng: gday
<\sh> ofr: motu :)
<\sh> ofr: kde stuff
<ofr> yeah, what packages?
<ofr> i see
<\sh> ofr: well depends...python-kde3 ;)
<\sh> ofr: sometimes things i
<\sh> I'm using every day...some server software like jabberd2 etc.
<ogra> http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/blog/2005/06/07?seemore=y#2005-06-07-ubuntu
<ogra> absolutely worth a look :)
<tseng> Unfrgiven: hi.
<Unfrgiven> tseng: how goes it
<tseng> fine thanks
<Unfrgiven> ogra: very interesting indeed
<ofr> i followed tha instructions on pbuilder
<\sh> that reminds me to write a follow up article on pbuilder for our next release backporters section :)
<ofr> how do i manage to create packages that are correctly tagged ubuntuX?
<Gervystar> ofr: dch ?
<ofr> oh yhea
<ofr> did not find it
<ofr> which package is it in?
<tepsipakki> devscripts
<ofr> thanks
<tepsipakki> installed it myself a minute ago.. (gaim-rhythmbox on the way)
<Unfrgiven> ofr: apt-cache search dch
<\sh> apt-file search /usr/bin/dch ;)
<Unfrgiven> dpkg -S dch :)
<\sh> jesus...libbonobomm1.3-9c2_1.3.8-2.2ubuntu1_*.deb reached the archives..i can work
<Unfrgiven> is there anyway that firefox will display the contents of the gz file on lamonts buildlogs? or do i have to download and view it manually?!?!
<Treenaks> Unfrgiven: curl http://something | zless :)
<ogra> Unfrgiven, hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs
<ogra> Unfrgiven, but thats only for the recent builds
<ogra> and my server is darn slow
<Treenaks> ogra: still no "final" server?
<Treenaks> for hwdb
<Unfrgiven> Treenaks: thanks.
<ogra> Treenaks, simply no time... my boss is laoding me with other "non hwdb" work currently ;)
<Treenaks> curl is cool :)
<sladen> Unfrgiven: it'll display the .gz, but I think they are .bz2's now?
<Treenaks> sladen: curl yadda | bzless :P
<Unfrgiven> sladen: i thought that firefox is able to handle compressed output? and the files im looking at are definately .gz
<Treenaks> Unfrgiven: content-transer-encoding vs content-type I think
<Treenaks> Unfrgiven: it's something in the headers of .gz files vs mod_gzipped content
<Unfrgiven> Treenaks: ah right.... curl <file> | zless did not work :(
<Unfrgiven> Treenaks: zless is the one with the problem... curl <file> | gzip -d works fine
<Treenaks> Unfrgiven: weird
<Treenaks> Unfrgiven: well.. curl http://blah | gzip -dc | less should work then :)
<Treenaks> Unfrgiven: or use lesspipe
<Unfrgiven> Treenaks: thats a lot more effort :P
<Unfrgiven> Treenaks: wierd... zless is showing the same output as less
<Unfrgiven> anyways goodnight all....
* tseng reads up on making livecds
<tseng> i wonder how i can lookup static ips
<tseng> per host
<ofr> what do you mean?
<tseng> i want to make livecds for servers that have static ips
<Treenaks> tseng: rarp
<tseng> they all have exactly the same software (ethereal)
<tseng> but different hostnames/static ips
<tseng> right now im thinking they can dhcp
<Treenaks> tseng: dhcp would work -- if the server works right
<tseng> and then lookup a static ip from mysql
<tseng> but at that point, i still need a unique identifier persistant
<tseng> so i might as well save all the info in a config file
<tseng> on the harddisk
<tseng> so i can just mount the disk on startup and copy the network file to /etc
<tseng> in tmpfs
<Riddell> how do I add an attachment on malone?
<Lathiat> ask really really nicely
<DanielN> time to go home :)
<\sh> doko: ping
<\sh> doko: please include universe/libs/libbonobouimm1.3_1.3.7-3.1ubuntu1: Not-For-Us [optional:out-of-date] 
<doko> \sh: include where?
<\sh> doko: this lib is blocked...to compile and to install
<doko> libbonobouimm1.3 dep-wait libbonobomm1.3-9c2, so it should build again, when libbonobomm1.3-9c2 is in the archive
<\sh> argl.
<\sh> doko: it was uploaded yesterday
<\sh> doko: and it's on the servers: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/libb/libbonobomm1.3/
<ogra> woah, tyvis is really hard stuff....
<ogra> doko, could it be that you missed libclutils0 ? (Clifton Lab's Utilities.  These are C++ utility classes ....)
<ogra> in the package are the .a and the .so files, but they seem broken.... tyvis depends on it...
<doko> ogra: maybe, time to fix it ;)
<ogra> grrr
<ogra> after this transition i dont want any C++ sourcecode nearer the 5m to me....
<ogra> never ever !
<\sh> ogra: hahahha
<doko> heh, what about a C++ t-shirt ...
<doko> or a tatoo ...
<ogra> grr
<\sh> ogra: didn't u want my trolltech shirt? ,-)
<ogra> there is so awesome language stuff you can program in.... why did people choose this crap ?
* jamessan|work prepares a bag of C code to send to ogra
<ogra> yay
<mgalvin> orga, sadly many school use c++, people get used to it ;(
<ogra> mgalvin, i even heard about desktop environments using it.... ;)
<jamessan|work> I actually never touched C++ in college. C, Java, and Scheme
<jamessan|work> oh, and MIPS asm
<ogra> i just need to rant a bit, because this transition stuff is no fun at all for me
<mgalvin> thats another great thing about c, it never brakes compat :)
<DanielN_> hi all
<DanielN_> \sh: thanks for your hint with the source upload, works :)
<\sh> ok...
<\sh> libccrtp is done..thx to mvo
<\sh> bugreport to debian is on its way
<\sh> DanielN_: u r welcome:)
<\sh> ogra: come on...u have to do some things for it ,)
<DanielN_> \sh: but another question: in the orig.tar is debian_stuff, in the source tree i deleted it. if i build the package there's an error who says to me that debian_stuff won't be deleted (and that's correct)
<ogra> \sh, i know.... but currently i have the feeling to only waste my time with it.... i have a gazillion important things to do.... if i had _any_ success with at least one package it would be ok... but only finding broken packages my stuff depends on is no fun
<\sh> ogra: it's ok...I will take over your packages when I'm finished with mine ;) there r also some stoppers...findlib (ocaml dep) and some others who r depending on gmetadom (ocaml ;))
<ogra> \sh, i dont want someone to help, i just want some success here....
<\sh> ogra: we need to finish this all
<ogra> \sh, at least two of my packages wont build before X is fixed... we simply cant finish it
<ogra> another one depends on a package that was not on the list at all, which i'm fixing currently....
<\sh> and I think, i will brew some coffee right now, have a nice shower, and lay down for 1 hour
<\sh> and when I'm waking up, I will sit in front of this laptop with a redhat fedora ;)
<\sh> and listening to strange music
<zul> ooh...why
* \sh is playing "Lonely" by Akon on German Top100 Single Charts
<\sh> it's strange really
<ogra> could someone with some more C++ insight have a look at warped.... \sh, doko ?
<\sh> sure
<\sh> name?
<ogra> warped
<\sh> trans?
<\sh> ogra: c2 ?
<ogra> oh, but i just see it also has to wait until libclutils has built....
<ogra> yep, looks like another missed one
<\sh> why is it not on the list?
<ogra> i guess doko just looked for dependencys..... neother libclutils nor libwarped have any c++ deps
<ogra> neither even
<ogra> but they provide c++ functions
<\sh> ok
<ogra> and are written in c++
<ogra> \sh, clutils is ready.... should hit the archive soon
<\sh> clutils/20031216-6ubuntu1/ ?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> it just finished compiling...
<\sh> woooot
<\sh> who changed p.u.c
<\sh> ?
<tseng> jdub.
<\sh> I love him :)
<\sh> it looks fantastic
* ogra doesnt read planet anymore on thewebsite since there are the rss feeded screensavers..... its much cooler to read planet this way *g*
<tseng> hah
<ogra> s/feeded/fed
<ogra> especially while working on the new lock screen *g*
<\sh> ogra: yes..but sometimes I want to see the faces...well hackergotchies ;)
<tseng> ogra: "new"?
<tseng> im excited.
<ogra> it will somehow look like this: http://www.grawert.net/xss_mockup.png
<tseng> oh wow
<tseng> but with more jdub
<ogra> if i ever convince this shitty code to accept xpm
<tseng> other user is what
<tseng> user switching?
<ogra> jwz re-implemented xpm.h in the screensaver itself :(
<ogra> yep
<tseng> hm
<ogra> you already have it....
<tseng> I do?
<ogra> just with the old ugly lock screen
<ogra> if you have 4.21-.....
<tseng> my breezy lock screen has no buttons
<tseng> updated today
<ogra> hmm, funny
<ogra> mine has the button....
<tseng> is that the real xpm?
<tseng> oh maybe i need to restart X
<ogra> nope
<ogra> just the screensaver....
<ogra> hmm, and we should include rss-glx in the default screensaver install....
<tseng> yes
<tseng> and it should read mjg59's blog
<tseng> by default
<tseng> "christing fuckmuppets"
<ogra> heh
<ogra> rss-glx are neat 3D screensavers (rss = really slick screensavers)
<ogra> the rss reading ones are in the default install :)
<tseng> hm oh
<tseng> well my box at work has an i810 chip
<tseng> they are probably useless
<tseng> rss-glx is already the newest version.
<ogra> and i adjusted them to point to planet by default ;) so make mjg59 join planet ;)
<tseng> jdub probably wont let him
<tseng> they wont let him on planet gnome
<ogra> heh
<ogra> why ?
<Nafallo> tseng: make it a default in blam then ;-)
<tseng> because his blogs are very offensive
<ogra> oh, good idea
<tseng> whats the name of an rss screensaver
<Nafallo> tseng: FontGlidesomething...
<Treenaks> tseng: phosphor can use it?
<tseng> Treenaks: hm?
<ogra>  less /usr/share/doc/rss-glx/README.xscreensaver
<Treenaks> tseng: the phosphor screensaver
<Treenaks> ogra: there is a separate package? what's ljlatest for then? :)
<Treenaks> oh THAT rss
<ogra> dunno, never heard of it ?
<Treenaks> stupid acronym overloading
<ogra> hehe
<\sh> hmmm....nice
<Treenaks> ogra: ljlatest returns the last X entries from an rss file, and stuff like phosphor, noseguy etc. can read from that
<Treenaks> s/X/n
<\sh> sebastian bergmann released his book "Software Development with PHP5" as opensource
<Treenaks> ogra: so you can have noseguy walking around spewing the latest livejournal crap
<ogra> Treenaks, thats already built in in the latest xscreensaver, no need for an extra program
<ogra> Treenaks, exactly what it does now ;)
<Treenaks> ogra: ljlatest used to be included as a separate program in the xscreensaver package
<ogra> Treenaks, its included and on by default, pointing to planet.ubuntu.com
<Treenaks> ogra: not working for noseguy here, he only tells me my load average
<tseng> wow that was so cool it crashed my box
<ogra> Treenaks, seems noseguy doesnt use the internal rss parser ...
<Treenaks> ogra: oh wait...
<Treenaks> ogra: if I remove ~/.xscreensaver and killall xscreensaver
<Treenaks> then start xscreensaver-demo and let it start the daemon
<ogra> ah, old setting :)
<Treenaks> it works
<ogra> Treenaks, try FlipText, thats the nicest one imho
<Treenaks> Xlib:  extension "XFree86-DRI" missing on display ":0.0".
<Treenaks> ogra: I have an ati and breezy...
<ogra> poke daniels :) to make an l-r-m package
<Nafallo> hmm
<Treenaks> ogra: I'll wait for 2.6.12-final before I do that
<Nafallo> where is mjg59's blog?
<ogra> Nafallo, its on planet.debian.org
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> found it ;-)
* Treenaks whips his thumbnailer
<Treenaks> the pictures might be huge, but I want thumbnails. GO
<\sh> Treenaks: gallery2 ;)
<Treenaks> \sh: no, my own home-built perl thingy :)
<Treenaks> but it's almost choking on my new 8mpix photos from my EOS 350D :)
<\sh> Treenaks: why not imagemagick with a oneliner?
<Treenaks> \sh: it IS imagemagick, from perl
<\sh> s/perl// ;)
<Treenaks> \sh: the perl is pretty clean: http://foodfight.org/download/photo/
<\sh> oh cgi...
<Treenaks> \sh: oui
<Treenaks> \sh: I think it's even mod_perl-able
<Treenaks> \sh: (Apache::Registry etc.)
<Treenaks> \sh: basically, I just put my pics in a dir, and I'm done (except for waiting for thumbnailing)
<dholbach> hi
<Nafallo> hi DanielN_
<\sh> hey dholbach
<Nafallo> hi dholbach :-)
<dholbach> hey :)
<dholbach> so we're really 66 people in here?
<dholbach> ROCK :)
<Nafallo> and 159 in -devel ;-)
<dholbach> we rock so hard :)
<mgalvin> hi dholbach
<tseng> dholbach: hi
<dholbach> hi
<dholbach> i feel so welcome in here :)
* Nafallo shouldn't have thrown away universe and multiverse... *sigh*
<tseng> dholbach: and they told us not to make the channel
<dholbach> haha :)))
<dholbach> MOTUNewPackages is A BIT full as well
<tseng> i kind of want to freeze it
<tseng> until we have a policy for making itps
<tseng> or working with the itp filler
<\sh> ogra: should i try and fix warp?
<tseng> filer?
<dholbach> we maybe don't want ITPs
<tseng> we want something.
<dholbach> yeah... kind of an announcement
<tseng> oh i dont want itps in ubuntu
<tseng> i want to make sure we file it in debian
<dholbach> not in debian as well - they will nail you on those packages
<dholbach> :)
<tseng> so our package doesnt get overwriten
<dholbach> i think i don't want to own packages
<Mithrandir> tseng: then we need to have somebody sponsoring those packages into debian.
<dholbach> "own"
<tseng> Mithrandir: thats not a big problem for me, but I dont know about all this other stuff
<dholbach> Mithrandir: i'm not sure about the administrativa, but do we want an RFP maybe?
<tseng> Mithrandir: that we are already sponsoring for someone else
<tseng> into ubuntu
<ogra> \sh, yes, thats why i asked ;)
<\sh> I think we shouldn't sponsor any uploads..if they want to upload a package, they should become a motu
<tseng> i dont want to add a package in ubuntu and get a different package added to debian
<Mithrandir> dholbach: I think we should ask on -devel how it should be handled.  it would be very nice if we could extend the wnpp mechanism to "packaged-in-ubuntu" or something.
<Mithrandir> \sh: you're misunderstanding.  You need somebody to sponsor the package into debian.  A DD.
<dholbach> Mithrandir: yeah kind of an announcement to make it easier
<\sh> Mithrandir: yes...ajmitch can do
<tseng> or more recently, have someone file an ITP, me work with that person to fix up the package
<tseng> and a 3rd person upload a totally crap package w/o talking to either of us
<dholbach> \sh: he will kill us for 426767964 packages in 468794269426 new revisions :)
<tseng> Mithrandir: is there a policy about ^ ?
<Mithrandir> \sh: that's way too much for a single person.  sponsoring is a lot of work.
<\sh> dholbach: hmmm..I don't want to go the DD way
<dholbach> \sh: collaboration on packages is the easiest way
<dholbach> \sh: the only way in my eyes
<\sh> Mithrandir: it works like this: we're reviewing the packages, and we decide if it's ok or not..ajmitch + other DDs in the Ubuntu Project will have the last word
<Mithrandir> tseng: about not respecting ITPs?  It's considered a bit rude and it usually ends with "sure, you take it" from one of the packagers.  It's seldom malicious.
<tseng> Mithrandir: well the package that was uploaded is wrong.
<Mithrandir> tseng: well, then bugs must be filed; that's kinda irrelevant, really. :-)
<Mithrandir> \sh: any DD uploading something to Debian is signing the source with his own key and thereby taking responsibility for the upload.
<tseng> eh as long as he hands it over I guess
<dholbach> is RicardoMarkiewicz here?
<tseng> i already got the first guy to fix his package
<Mithrandir> tseng: it's usually an issue of missing or mis-communication.
<tseng> yes i need to publish this mono packaging policy and then start beating people over the head with it
<tseng> people are still reading old docs.
<dholbach> does anybody know RicardoMarkiewicz ircnick?
<\sh> Mithrandir: right...so what is the best way...filing ITP and w8?
<dholbach> \sh: filing ITP means "i will maintain this package in debian until i die" :)
<\sh> and if kde app is not running on noscreen s390 mode, it's rejected?
<tseng> dude, m68k
<\sh> hmmm
<tseng> its the wave of the future.
<Nafallo> I thought all that changed with etch?
<plugwash> dholbach i'm sure people can stop maintaining packages in debian can't they
<tseng> plugwash: you can orphan is
<tseng> *it
<\sh> I would say: lets start filing ITPs with "He Man <motu@ubuntu-motu.org>"
<tseng> then someone has to pick it up or I think its removed.
<Nafallo> isn't debian walking the "support 4 most popular arches" road now?
<Mithrandir> \sh: there hasn't been a large-scale effort similar to what we're doing here before, so we need to establish a sane and reasonable set of policies.
<\sh> Mithrandir: yes...malone if debian wants or not
<\sh> and now i have to go to mako and tell him my anti-debian mood ,-)
<tseng> \sh: eh you keep going for launchpad stuff as the solution
<Mithrandir> \sh: malone is irrelevant in this context.  I'm talking about what we need to do in relation to debian.
<tseng> launchpad just doesnt work at this point
<Mithrandir> \sh: if people start filing ITPs, they need to follow through and maintain the packages in Debian too.
<dholbach> plugwash: yeah... i was merely kidding, but ITP doesn't mean "i will have a look at the source code" - the text really talks of "owning"
<dholbach> and since it's a administrative device of debian, i'm not sure, if we want to use it "on the fly"
<\sh> Mithrandir: if you think about a roleaccount, it doesn't matter who of us will touch the package, we will be one person towards debian
<tseng> that doesnt fit in the model \sh
<Mithrandir> \sh: that's so not how Debian works.
<tseng> one person owns one package
<\sh> bah...it's all to difficult
<tseng> teams are a new concept.
<tseng> there are x, mono, gnome teams, but its still not really what you are saying
<\sh> tseng: so gentoo style
<tseng> gentoo style is shithouse
<\sh> tseng: i mean "herds" when it's working
<tseng> \sh: i managed the gentoo desktop project for some months, if you recall
<\sh> tseng: yepp
<tseng> herds dont give accountability at all
<Mithrandir> for a lot of packages, a team approach doesn't make sense.
<Mithrandir> mail-handling team, for instance?
<tseng> entire teams disappear, and no one new is joining, its a very loose structure
<\sh> Mithrandir:why not?
<Mithrandir> maintaining mutt, gnus, exim4, postfix, mailman and everything else which touches mail.
<tseng> and leaves one person, or no one at all holding a big bag
<Mithrandir> (yes, and gnu hello)
<tseng> yeah some teams seem related but arent like that
<tseng> no one uses 4 mtas
<tseng> gnome or mono makes sense, its a stack
<Mithrandir> \sh: which team would maintain chrpath?  pkg-config? sash? fortune-mod-bofh-excuses?
<tseng> you need to coordinate.
<Amaranth> smeg 0.7.4 is universe but i just released 0.7.5, how do i get it in?
<Mithrandir> (those are a few of my packages in Debian, fwiw)
<Amaranth> put it on MOTUNewPackages again?
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: MOTU ;-)
<tseng> Amaranth: no
<Amaranth> or can i just find a sponsor this time and go
<tseng> Amaranth: just prepare a new source package and give to whoever sponsored it
<Amaranth> ajmitch: ping?
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: for some, sure.  For some, absolutely not.  pkg-config is apparently trivial, but not.
<Mithrandir> or we could end up with a zillion teams.  python-based-webapps team for instance (where pyblosxom would fit).
<tseng> thats where gentoo is
<tseng> a bunch of loose teams that make no sense
<tseng> debian has a few sensible teams
<dholbach> Amaranth: MOTUToReview
<Mithrandir> I think trying to say "team for everything" might be trying to fit a large amount of square pegs in a different amount of round holes. :-)
<tseng> and 1000 disconnected maintainers
<zul> the gentoo way
<Mithrandir> tseng: sure, debian's model isn't perfect either, but trying to come up with The Single Solution is either nontrivial or not possible.
* tseng gives zul a square peg
<zul> wohoo..
<Amaranth> dholbach: Put it up there? I've already gone through MOTUNewPackages to get 0.7.4 in
<Mithrandir> yeah, and we'd have a norwegian team for maintaining the norwegian spellchecking dictionaries.  I guess that team would have a single member. :P
<tseng> Mithrandir: all i want is a way to proactively push changes to debian
<\sh> Amaranth: u r no motu?
<tseng> not that many DD's watch ~scott
<Amaranth> \sh: nope, no signed key
<dholbach> Amaranth: unless you're a motu, you have to get stuff reviewed
<Mithrandir> tseng: ok, lets lean back and look at the different problems?
<dholbach> Amaranth: for a new revision it's just one review
<tseng> Mithrandir: yep
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: baah, you might soon convert me to norwegian anyway ;-)
<tseng> the major problem case for me is this:
<Mithrandir> tseng: one is making sure bugs we fix are fixed in debian as well.
<Amaranth> dholbach: I thought my sponsor was the one that had to review it for a new revision.
<tseng> I package something, say Beagle
<Mithrandir> tseng: another is making sure that anything which MOTUs package end up with a compatible packaging in Debian.
<tseng> someone else doesnt know/care about ubuntu
<\sh> Amaranth: u have a possibility to send me your passport or identity card via fax?
<dholbach> Amaranth: everybody can do it
<tseng> and files an ITP w/ their own package
<dholbach> Amaranth: every maintainer/ MOTU
<tseng> his package is just wrong
<tseng> he doesnt know the mono policies
<dholbach> \sh: we have a process for that, including notaries
<Amaranth> \sh: as soon as i find my ID i could scan it, don't think i could fax
<dholbach> \sh: somewhere on the wiki...
<\sh> dholbach: really?
<Mithrandir> tseng: if Debian has the same set of policies, you can just file bugs in bugs.d.o
<tseng> I can, but i already made a package thats correct
<Mithrandir> tseng: and say "hey, I do actually maintain mono stuff in Ubuntu, how about we cooperate and I feed you patches"
<tseng> it feels like working backwards to make someone else fix it
<dholbach> \sh: nobody will blame you for what you keysign
<dholbach> \sh: normally this goes to mako
<Mithrandir> tseng: then you need to convince the maintainer that your solution is nice and correct and he'll take that instead of his own.
<Mithrandir> tseng: now, why would such a situation happen in the first place?
<tseng> because we dont file ITP for our new packages
<Mithrandir> tseng: probably because the maintainer didn't know about your package.
<tseng> yes.
<Mithrandir> people are lazy, so even if he actively doesn't care about ubuntu, he'll probably start from your package.
<Mithrandir> (if he knows about it)
<\sh> dholbach: if there is a rule..I will follow this rule :)
<tseng> so can we list new packages in ubuntu that arent in debian?
<tseng> something.
<\sh> tseng: packages.gz comparing
<Mithrandir> tseng: if we can make that list and put it somewhere the Debian maintainers might look, that would be a good start.
<tseng> hm awk out the name
<Nafallo> tseng: something like IIU (Is In Ubuntu)?
<tseng> and diff the sorted list
<tseng> Nafallo: yes if it was on WNPP
<tseng> it would be a no-brainer
<\sh> tseng: only source packages
<tseng> \sh: yep.
<Mithrandir> \sh: wnpp is all about source packages.
<Nafallo> tseng: right.
<Mithrandir> I think ITP is wrong, since the MOTU isn't going to find a sponsor and push it into debian and maintain it there, he's more "looking for Debian maintainer".
<Mithrandir> which is kinda-ish RFP, but not quite.
<tseng> yeah its sort of in between
<Amaranth> anyone wanna review smeg for me? :) it's on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUToReview
<Mithrandir> it's almost an RFA. :P
<Mithrandir> (request for adoption)
<tseng> well i already have a sponsor for f-spot, I dont mind doing that
<tseng> but I see why we cant do it for everything
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: hehe, sounds like a bug+patch against wnpp would be a solution. add IIU or something ;-).
<Mithrandir> tseng: what do you mean by "everything" here?
<tseng> everything in universe and not in debian
<\sh> ogra: ping
<tseng> we have a steadily growing list of MOTUNewPackages
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: I think this is a social problem and we should solve it on a social level first, then implement the technical details.
<dholbach> tseng: i'm working on it
<tseng> which means steadily more conflicts in the future
<Mithrandir> tseng: ok, so the diff + a blacklist?
<tseng> yep.
<tseng> ill try it
<Mithrandir> ok, so how do we want to handle the case of a package being removed in Debian due to orphaning, for instance?
<\sh> ogra: regarding warp, it looks like, that this bloody software doesn't include <stdint.h> but configure finds it, but didn't declare the conditional var
<tseng> is that not dropped from ubuntu?
<Mithrandir> tseng: I think it is today, yes.
<tseng> hm oh damn
<tseng> we have to compile universe/multiverse/main sources.gz
<Mithrandir> tseng: do you know how conflicts between apt-get.org imports and universe were handled?
<ogra> \sh, can you fix it ?
<tseng> no.
<elmo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/paste/012.txt
<\sh> ogra: I'm trying
<elmo> Mithrandir: a-g.o wasn't allowed to override main.. or I think universe, tho I'm not 100% on the latter
<elmo> that doesn't take into account a-g.o, but I can probably do that trivially
<elmo> that's only universe, not main..
<dholbach> apt-get.org: i had a look which packages we already had
<tseng> zcat Sources.gz | grep Package | awk '{print $2}' | sort | uniq
<dholbach> i had a script sorting that out for me from the Sources - file of the repositories
<tseng> we'll have to build that up from each component
<Mithrandir> we actually have a banana package?
<tseng> and then diff.
<Mithrandir> is it built from the dpkg source package?
<dholbach> ?
<dholbach> the source package is banana, the binary package php-banana
<tseng> Mithrandir: im guilty of the second use case also, i didnt push bugfixes to the blam maintainer (even though they were against the new version)
<Mithrandir> dholbach: keybuk tends to use a banana package when talking about some stuff in dpkg and so on.
<tseng> i am working w/ him now, though
<Mithrandir> dholbach: it has the most utterly useless description I've _ever_ seen.
<dholbach> Mithrandir: oh :)))
<dholbach> Mithrandir: that's my fault, i overlooked it, i else wouldnt have permitted it to go in
<dholbach> Mithrandir: fabbione already $"&)/$"&)/$"&)/&$" me for that... he did it hard
<Mithrandir> so, we're at about 130 ubuntu specific packages.  It would be nice if that was a bit closer to zero.
<Mithrandir> elmo: that list includes main?
<Mithrandir> hm, no, I don't think so.
<tseng> yeah i dont see g-a-i
<tseng> Out-of-date BUT modified: 206 (2.55%)
<\sh> grmpf
<tseng> sucks
<Mithrandir> that would also be nice to get a bit closer to zero
<Mithrandir> so, what's a sensible way to work at this?
<tseng> what constitutes a blacklist?
<tseng> that list is much larger than id expect
<Mithrandir> isn't blacklisted c++ apps and stuff?
<tseng> oh thats right
<tseng> no wonder its so large
<tseng> i thought it was only mis-versioned e-d-s from unstable and such
<tseng> maybe we can start by knocking out the 206 unmergeable things and seeing what is left in ~scott?
<tseng> see if its reasonable to start files bugs or bugging maintainers
<Mithrandir> uhm, the 206 stuff isn't unmergeable, it's just not up-to-date wrt debian.  Which might mean we need to file a few hundred patches. :)
<tseng> yeah, if we merge it we'll see what we did to the package
<tseng> in alot of cases its probably desireable to merge id guess
<tseng> merge "upstream"
<tseng> i cant imagine we changed 206 packages just for fun
<Mithrandir> heh
<tseng> im just imagining if we dont start clearing things up now
<tseng> it will become unmanageable
<Mithrandir> yes
<tseng> only dholbach will be able to make sense of it
<tseng> mapped onto 6 pages of wiki magic voodoo
<\sh> i don't see the error
<tseng> \sh: the error of having 206 packages with merge conflicts to debian?
<\sh> tseng: nono
<\sh> warped
<dholbach> the MOM list is DAMN long
<tseng> oh.
<\sh> g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../src/warped -I../src/warped -I../src -I../src -I/usr/include/mpi -I/usr/include/pccts -g -O2 -MT Serializable.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/Serializable.Tpo -c warped/Serializable.cpp  -fPIC -DPIC
<\sh> warped/warped.h:39: error: 'INT64_MAX' was not declared in this scope
<\sh> warped/warped.h:40: error: 'INT64_MIN' was not declared in this scope
<ogra> \sh, same here with vdk2....
<\sh> but everything is correct
<\sh> ogra: include stdint?
<\sh> ogra: include stdint.h?
<\sh> can it be, that stdint.h has a bug inside in the c99 defs?
<ivoks> hi
<dholbach> hi ivoks
<ogra> \sh, i didnt mean the same error....
<ivoks> ok, i packaged new version of wifi-radar :)
<ivoks> but, still can't upload :)
<ogra> \sh, i meant i dont see the error...
<dholbach> ivoks: you're still on CommunityCouncilAgenda?
<ivoks> I am?!
<ivoks> yeah... i tried to remove my self, but page was locked
<\sh> argl
<\sh> OGRA !
<\sh> i'm stupid and u r stupid too
<\sh> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=268250
<tseng> wow.
<ivoks> when in meeting?
<\sh> sorry
<ivoks> s/in/is :(
<elmo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/paste/013.txt
<tseng> 20:00 UTC
<elmo> ^--- including a.g.o
<\sh> that was so obvious, that I didn't realize to look on this page
<tseng> er no
<dholbach> tseng: 22:00 utc
<\sh> 22:00 utc
<ivoks> 20:00 UTC? that was 17 minutes ago?!
<tseng> 22
<ivoks> ah, ok :)
<tseng> i misread the topic, it listed TB first
<tseng> which is strangely later
<ivoks> yeah... i can't change CommunityCouncilAgenda
<ivoks> :(
<tseng> so dudes i am on my way home
<tseng> cya in a bit
<dholbach> bye tseng
<ivoks> tseng: bye
<ivoks> Insufficient Privileges
<ivoks> so...
<elmo> FWIW, if that's useful, I can cron it
<ivoks> doh...
<Mithrandir> elmo: I think it's useful.
<ivoks> could someone upload my wifi-radar? :)
<\sh> hahaha
<ivoks> i have this new version :)
<ivoks> \sh: http://www.bitbuilder.com/wifi_radar/ (check out debian packages) :)
<ivoks> i'll be back at 22:00 UTC
<ivoks> bye
<dholbac1> bye ivoks
<dholbach> brb
<mgalvin> l8r, hopefully i can make it home in time for the meeting
<ivoks> elmo: thanks for email
<ogra> ivoks, have you cleaned yourself from the agenda already ?
<ivoks> i can't
<ivoks> i get permisson denied
<ogra> huh ?
<ivoks> i'll try again
<ivoks> i'm confused too :)
<ivoks> i tried week ago
<ivoks> almost every day :)
<ivoks> i don't get edit option
<ogra> are you logged in ?
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i can change cxxlibrarylist
<ivoks> yes, i'm logged in
<ivoks> but on CCA I'm not
<ivoks> strange
<ogra> i'll clean it, dont worry...
<ivoks> i'll try another browser :) maybe some cookie is broken...
<ivoks> os something :)
<ivoks> nope...
<ivoks> same thing
<ivoks> i get welcome. you are now logged in
<ivoks> but... i don't have permisson to edit anything and it says "Log In", not "My Preferences" as on CxxLibraryList
<ivoks> thanx for clearing my name :)
<\sh> I don't get it
<ivoks> what?
<\sh> warped
<\sh> stdint.h
<\sh> ##c++ says to me, i should use std::numeric_limits
<\sh> but this i don't understand...I'm reading just now c++ books :(
<Amaranth> can i get someone to review smeg 0.7.5 real quick? it's on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUToReview
<Amaranth> it's only about 20-30 lines changed from 0.7.4
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> one char is enough to make it a mess
<ivoks> 20-30 lines is...
<ivoks> calling for disaster :)
<Amaranth> pfft
<Amaranth> it's python
<ivoks> i'm kidding :)
<ivoks> techincly i'm not motu yet...
<ivoks> my pgp isn't checked and my review wouldn't help you for now...
<Amaranth> btw, does being S!2 signed by someone in the strong set help me at all?
<ivoks> Amaranth: of course
<ogra> Amaranth, do you have the key id ?
<Amaranth> well, he isn't in yet either
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> he gets signed on thursday
<ivoks> he?
<Amaranth> the guy that signed me
<ivoks> ah...
<\sh> ivoks: u r motu
<ogra> Amaranth, but his key is on the servers , so do you have his id ?
<Amaranth> loading kgpg, hang on
<ivoks> \sh: cripled one, yes :)
<ivoks> kgpg?
<ivoks> Amaranth: it's time to open konsole :)
<Amaranth> E11D7813
<Amaranth> ivoks: not a kde user
<ivoks> no keys found
<Amaranth> err
<ogra> Amaranth, its not on the keyserver
<\sh> ogra: i will look tomorrow...tonight my brain doesn't work anymore
<ogra> \sh, i gave up on tse3 too
<Amaranth> it is here...
<ogra> Amaranth, http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?STAT=A2D06936&STATS=statistics
* Amaranth can't remember any of the web interfaces for this
<Amaranth> ogra: and?
<ogra> if you get *any* path to me youre fine... just check it after both of your keys are uploaded
<\sh> and libmetakit broke on amd64/ia64 as well
<Amaranth> oh
<Amaranth> bleh
<ivoks> ogra: let's check mine :)
<Amaranth> i have to get to you?
<Amaranth> well, he won't be signed by anyone until thursday, so i'll check then
<\sh> libbonobouimm* is also not compiled, libprinterconf also not...
<ivoks> oho! there is nice, short path :)
<ogra> Amaranth, i'm in the strong connected set, so any kind of connection will be enough
<ivoks> two, even :)
<\sh> I'm glad, that I know ogra personally ;)
<Amaranth> that stupid website tells me my key id is invalid
<dholbach> ok
<thesaltydog> here I am
<ivoks> Amaranth: :)
<ogra> hey
<\sh> lets check council agenda
<dholbach> ./debian/changelog gets copied to /usr/share/doc/changelog.Debian.gz
<thesaltydog> yes
<ogra> Amaranth, did you upload already ?
<dholbach> ./ChangeLog gehts copied to /usr/share/doc/changelog.gz
<dholbach> "copied"
<thesaltydog> no
<thesaltydog> I did that way..
<Amaranth> oh, i was reading it wrong
<Amaranth> ogra: yes
<\sh> it's wrong
<ogra> whats wrong ?
<thesaltydog> I have put ./ChangeLog and ./debian/changelog, but I have only one changelog.Debian.gz in the package
<Amaranth> the way that web interface works
<\sh> ./ChangeLog gehts copied to /usr/share/doc/changelog.gz
<Amaranth> i was putting one thing in one form and one in the other
<dholbach> erm... /usr/share/<package>/changelog.gz :)
<dholbach> arg
<dholbach> erm... /usr/share/doc/<package>/changelog.gz :)
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> don't try to learn from ANY word from me tonight
<\sh> dholbach: hehe
<thesaltydog> understand... but let me check one minute again
<\sh> thesaltydog: u want to install the upstream ChangeLog?
<\sh> dh_installchangelogs -k
<ogra> dholbach, fix some packages and the frequent shiverig stops immediately.... withdrawal symptoms, you know ? ;)
<\sh> thesaltydog: q
<thesaltydog> dholbach, I confirm: I have only changelog.Debian.gz in /usr/share/doc/bum/
<thesaltydog> \sh it is there..
<thesaltydog> -k??
<thesaltydog> I didn't put -k!!!
<\sh> man dh_installchangelogs
<dholbach> ogra: if that was my only problem... :)
<\sh> sudo ln -s /usr/bin/man /usr/bin/woman
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> dholbach, :=)
<thesaltydog> let me do debuil a moment...
<ivoks> No manual entry for woman
<thesaltydog> debuild
<ivoks> what's woman?
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> w.o.
<ogra> without ?
<dholbach> so WTF reviews MY packages? :)
<\sh> dholbach: u have to w8 until we're finished with cxx ;)
<dholbach> alright :)
<dholbach> i completely understand :)
<dholbach> i just wanted to break a record with the "istanbul" package
<\sh> but if at least 2 can review kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts_0.1-1ubuntu1
<dholbach> but nevermind me :)
<ogra> dholbach, i think i could need it for edubuntu....
<thesaltydog> dholbach, so, no more warnings, but still only one changelog.Debian.gz
<\sh> riddell will be 3, we can move it into universe, from universe to main, and voil we have kewlish konqui shortcuts for ubuntu wiki, ubuntu wiki search and ubuntu bugzilla
<dholbach> thesaltydog: could you upload it?
<dholbach> thesaltydog: i'll have another look
<thesaltydog> ok. a minute.
<dholbach> ogra: it ROCKS
<ogra> dholbach, yes, its nice :)
<dholbach> ogra: you installed it?
<thesaltydog> dholbach, done
<ogra> dholbach, nope... not yet, but i watched the little nice demo of "the never answering brother" *g*
<\sh> argl
<dholbach> ogra: he's so annoying :)
<dholbach> thesaltydog: you can remove the postinst, it doesnt do anything if you have a closer look
<Amaranth> wow, huge lag
<Amaranth> or did you guys just not talk for 4 minutes?
<thesaltydog> in the last line it runs update-menus during configuration
<uniq> just not talk.
<Amaranth> then no one in any channel talked for 4 minutes
<ogra> meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in some minutes for everyone who isnt aware
<Amaranth> which i doubt for #ubuntu, they overflow my 3000 line scrollback in less than 4 hours
<ogra> actually one minute :)
<Amaranth> wha?
<Amaranth> wow, my timezone math sucks
<thesaltydog> dholbach, did you see update-menus?
<dholbach> thesaltydog: i have another look
<thesaltydog> tell me
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-15
<ivoks> Amaranth: date --utc
<Amaranth> ivoks: i know, i'm just lazy
<thesaltydog> dholbach, I have checked with Amaranth too. We need to run upodate-menus and we need the menu file in /usr/lib/menu if we want an entry into the Debian menu.
<dholbach> ok ok
<dholbach> sorry, i was doing 10 things at once
<ogra> erm, wasnt there a dh_menu ?
<thesaltydog> dholbach, but I have an open mind. Just tell me your position. (yes I used dj_menu)
<thesaltydog> dh_menu
<dholbach> thesaltydog: i'm in a meeting at the moment - ok i mail you?
<thesaltydog> dholbach, take it easy with your mind... :-)
<dholbach> yeah... thank you :)
<thesaltydog> dholbach, yes ok for emailing. thesaltydog@gmail.com
<thesaltydog> ciao ciao
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> have a nice evening
<ogra> thesaltydog, or join the meeting :)
<ogra> if youre bored ;)
<thesaltydog> dholbach, I'm going to sleep. It's midnight here.
<ogra> here too
<dholbach> here too :)
<thesaltydog> but I need to work at 7 tomorrow..
<thesaltydog> and I'm very old..:-(
<ogra> thesaltydog, i'm 36 ;)
<thesaltydog> ogra, you're a baby.. I'm 49!!
<ogra> yep, you told me the otherday ;)
<thesaltydog> ogra, but still enjoy relaxing with ubuntu..
<ogra> :)
<\sh> someone who is older then ogra and \sh
<\sh> incredible
<thesaltydog> ciao to all. Have a nice and profitable meeting.
<ogra> thesaltydog, have a nice evening
<dholbach> byeeeeeeeee :)
<thesaltydog> (tomorrow I have 2 company boards waiting... booooooring!)
<\sh> well done DanielN_ sign the CoC and send it to mako
<uniq> congrats danieln :)
<DanielN_> \sh: i'll do that tomorrow, very tired now
<DanielN_> :)
<\sh> sleep well dude :)
<DanielN_> you too... wann auch immer
<DanielN_> ;>
<\sh> later this night ;)
<dholbach> good night, have a nice evening
<ajmitch> hi
<SquishyWaffle> Can anyone in here take a look at an update ManEdit package I made and provide some feedback?
<SquishyWaffle> ok then...
<\sh> SquishyWaffle: later :)
<Nafallo> we're all in a meeting ;-)
<SquishyWaffle> ah, that's still going? whoops
* ajmitch forgot about meetings
<Unfrgiven> good morning all
<ajmitch> hello
<tseng> hi
<Unfrgiven> after doing an apt-get source <package>, is there any way to apply all the dpatch based patches? so that I can do a test build? ive got a package failing to build atm and i want to see the fully patched source
<Unfrgiven> tseng: hey dude
<tseng> if you do dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<tseng> it applies them all
<tseng> the results go in debian/patched
<tseng> you can see failures in tehre
<Unfrgiven> tseng: excellent, thanks
<tseng> a patch log at the various levels
<tseng> be careful about cleaning/unapplying the tree before starting over with a new patch
<tseng> obviously if you change/remove patches and try to unpatch then
<Unfrgiven> yep will do.
<tseng> you are effed
<\sh> Unfrgiven: my best way to work with sources and patches is a chroot
<Unfrgiven> \sh: yeah im using a chroot too.
<\sh> Unfrgiven: and inside i'm using debuild only to build directly where i need it..and check the patched sources
<\sh> ok..guys...time to sleep...g'night
<schweeb> yay, after 2 wks stuck in windows hell, I've finally fixed my Ubuntu install
* Nafallo blinks at dbs *
<Nafallo> should I be awake to even try to understand how to make new patches with it? :-)
<Mez> ew..
* Mez isntalls a breezy chroot
* jamessan pets cdbs-edit-patch
<Nafallo> jamessan: hehe, I wish ;-). there is probably a reason xfree86 has dbs :-P.
<jamessan> pain  :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<schweeb> the reason xfree86 has anything is "that's how it's always been"
<Nafallo> *s*
<schweeb> luckily, changes are on their way
<Nafallo> and that's how it always should be :-)
<Nafallo> hmm, dang. that comment suddenly became out of place :-P
<Mez> I asusme if I'm using a breezy chroot - I want ti to be using a breezy apt/sources.list ?
<schweeb> yep
<Mez> so I'll have to edit that
* Mez sits back and waits for debootstrap --variant=buildd breezy /var/chroot/ http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ to work
<tseng> Mez: not pbuilder?
<Mez> ????@?
<schweeb> yea, I always pbuild
<tseng> pbuilder > chroot
<schweeb> develop in my home directory
<schweeb> then pbuild to build
<Mez> o_O
<tseng> it automatically cleans up after you.
<Mez> I'm just folowing https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DebootstrapChroot
<tseng> PbuilderHowto
<Mez> I've not used pbuild before
<Mez> what's the difference?
<tseng> < tseng> it automatically cleans up after you.
<jamessan> pbuild's cleaner and easier
<tseng> it installs the builddeps in the chroot
<tseng> and removes them when you are done
<Mez> wheras a chroot doenst
<Mez> thats pretty sweet
<tseng> you just sudo pbuilder foo.dsc
<tseng> and it does the rest
<Mez> sweet
<Mez> so I guess I wipe my chroot that I just built?
<jamessan> yup
<Nafallo> sudo pbuilder build *.dsc even :-)
* jamessan uses pdebuild
* Nafallo to
<tseng> pdebuild doesnt work for me?
<tseng> says cant find control
<Nafallo> tseng: and you are in the package root-dir?
<tseng> yes
<Mez> I assume when i edit /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc
<Mez> I just use breezy straight away?>
<Nafallo> tseng: always works for me.
<Mez>  DISTRIBUTION=breezy
<Nafallo> Mez: I had troubles last time I tried that a couple of days ago.
<Mez> but if building packages for breezy?
<crimsun> don't use breezy directly
<Mez> then... how do i use breezy?
<Nafallo> Mez: I created hoary and updated to breezy.
<crimsun> you must build a hoary pbuilder and dist-upgrade using --override-conf
<Mez> build for wary?
<Mez> ok
* Nafallo has a hoarybuilder now though ;-)
<Nafallo> Is there any way I could have multiple pbuilders?
<Nafallo> stable + devel
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> use different base.tgzs
<crimsun> (pbuilder parameter)
<Nafallo> crimsun: ahh, thank you _very_ much!
<crimsun> np
* Nafallo tries to not bug tseng about tomboy deps ;-)
<tseng> bug daniels about dbus
<Mez> so basically - if i want to buidl for hoary i use a hoary chroot
<Mez> if i want ot build for breezy, use a hoary and then update to breezy
<jamessan> s/chroot/pbuild/  :)
<Nafallo> tseng: much more fun to bug you :-)
<Mez> :P
<tseng> well I cant do much about it.
<Mez> sorry jamessan  too used to chroot
<tseng> well i could
<tseng> but it would be rude
<Nafallo> tseng: hehehehehe
<Nafallo> well
<Nafallo> I should sleep
<Nafallo> see you all
<Nafallo> later today ;-)
* ajmitch returns
<tseng> hi
<ajmitch> hi tseng
<ajmitch> what's new with mono?
<tseng> going to upload one now to fix ppc I hope
<tseng> then i can get back to apps
<tseng> then merge in all the changes from debian
<tseng> and maybe rest for awhile
<tseng> before a new version of everything hits
<ajmitch> there's a few changes again?
<tseng> yeah meebey pushed a couple little things int he unstable upload
<tseng> and blam, f-spot are updated
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> has anything moved to the desktop seed yet?
<tseng> no
<tseng> we need to drop mono-jit build-deps across the board
<tseng> should it be in the desktop seed?
<tseng> im not sure.
<tseng> maybe in main now and in desktop for +1
<tseng> would make sense
<ajmitch> if it does get in, we'll need to arrange for user_xattr to be turned on
<tseng> yes
<mgalvin> quick question, signing the coc is just the regular gpg --clearsign ... right?
<ajmitch> yeah, iirc
<mgalvin> thnx
<mgalvin> night all
* ajmitch ought to hunt down seb, everything has disappeared from the gnome menus :)
<ajmitch> Amaranth: 0.7.5 looks ok to me
<Amaranth> w00tage
<ajmitch> I'll build & test out :)
<Amaranth> hehe
<ajmitch> since gnome-menus just had a path change or two, i suspect
<Amaranth> wha?
<Amaranth> i'll have to backport my lame code for finding the menu file then
<ajmitch> Amaranth: I haven't checked gnome-menus
<ajmitch> but I just lost all my menu entries until I restarted gnome-panel :)
<Amaranth> hehe, nice
<Amaranth> at least your panel updates
<Amaranth> err, menu
<Amaranth> my menu is static until i restart gnome-panel
<ajmitch> applications.menu -> gnome-applications.menu
<ajmitch> similar for settings.menu
* Amaranth was just about to inject himself in the CC meeting agenda when his connection died
<Amaranth> ok, i'll have to release on 0.7.6
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> check out 06_menus_rename.diff in the latest gnome-menus package
<Amaranth> tomorrow though, the code for checking is nasty
<Amaranth> yeah, seb consulted me before the change
<ajmitch> ah alright
<Amaranth> i thought i convinced him to leave it
<ajmitch> looks like smeg does need updated, the tree is pretty much empty
<Amaranth> well, technically it shouldn't need updated
<Amaranth> but gnome-menus sucks wrt the fd.o standard, so i'll have to update it
<ajmitch> heh :)
<Amaranth> <MergeFile type="parent"> is supposed to save my ass here, if it can't find the one referenced, it's supposed to find a replacement
<Amaranth> but i guess it looks for applications.menu files
<ajmitch> I guess so
<ajmitch> and that's disappeared from /etc/xdg/menus
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> if i can find a pygtk clipboard super hacker i hope to have 0.8 out in a week
<ajmitch> nah, I haven't done clipboard stuff :)
<ajmitch> my pygtk skills are at the beginnner-moderate level
<Amaranth> the only one i've found who has doesn't seem to be able to explain it without random bits of code that i can't understand
<Amaranth> hey, do you know anything about xgettext?
<ajmitch> nope
<Amaranth> i have to symlink ./bin/smeg.py to ./bin/smeg and tell xgettext to use that when generating my pot file, otherwise it tries to read it as C
<Amaranth> but if i pass --language=Python it doesn't work with my glade file
<Amaranth> maybe this is why the straw guys wrote their own...
<Lathiat> heh
<DanielN_> hi guys :)
<DanielN_> can someone tell me, how i add new docks in windowmaker ?
<\sh> morning
<DanielN_> \sh moin :)
<\sh> our new member :)
<Amaranth> i was trying to inject myself in the list for consideration
<Amaranth> then at the end of the meeting when i was supposed to bring it up my internet connection suddenly died for 7 hours
<\sh> next time :)
<DanielN_> \sh: yep.. and quite happy new member ;)
<DanielN_> argh
<DanielN_> windowmaker is a really geeky windowmanager
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> patching shitty c++ code
<\sh> moins ogra
<\sh> ogra: this warped is hell of a sourcecode
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<ogra> \sh, thats why i gave it to someone capable ;)
<ogra> moin
<doko> \sh: please ping lamont/infinity about the buildd issues
<doko> ajmitch: C++ ping
<doko> ogra: C++ ping
<doko> DanielN: C++ ping
<ogra> doko, pong
<doko> or maybe that should be ping++
<ogra> hehe
<ivoks> hi guys
<ajmitch> doko: hello
<ajmitch> how are you? :)
<ogra> doko, i'm hanging with tse3, cant make it compile, no debian patch and no idea what to do..... my second worse one it tyvis that waits for a fixed libwarped (which is a PITA)
<ivoks> ogra: i tried that one too :(
<ogra> unicon waits for a fixed Xlibs.h
<ivoks> ogra: openscenegraph too
<ogra> doko, the others are uploaded and ready since some time....
<ogra> (or invalid)
<ajmitch> firebird2, socketapi FTBFS
<ajmitch> I've got a few ready to upload, and updated some diffs in bugzilla today
<ajmitch> gfcui has a > 1MB debdiff :)
<ajmitch> gfccore is merely 100k
<ajmitch> mostly due to a broken clean target, I suspect
<doko> ajmitch, ogra: can these libs be compiled using g++-3.4?
* ajmitch shall try
<DanielN> doko: i've done one C++ patch, the other 2 open bugs are free for overtaking (build errors, and i have no idea about c++)
<doko> DanielN: that's ok, please could you adjust the wiki?
<ogra> doko, for tse3 there is a debian patch to make it compil with 3.4, i'll check it....
<ogra> but i'm fearing libwarped wont be this easy to solve
<doko> DanielN: which is the one you did finish?
<ajmitch> doko: shall I upload the ones which I've updated in bugzilla?
<DanielN> doko: i've adjusted the wiki long time ago ~2 days!
<ajmitch> firebird2 FTBFS with 3.4
<DanielN> doko: i've fixed cppopt
* ajmitch will try & hunt down/write a patch
<ogra> ajmitch, if you find a way to make firbird2 compile, you'll make someone on ubuntu-users very happy *g*
<ajmitch> ogra: oh, did I miss something on there?
<ajmitch> I tend to skip most threads on there in my gmail account  :)
<ogra> ajmitch, yes, a guy who was asking how to get it compiled from source.... since he didnt find the package in universe.... i already pointed him there several times, but he doesnt nderstand
<ajmitch> alright
<ajmitch> and this  poor guy uses breezy?
<ajmitch> hi Nafallo
* ajmitch waits for socketapi to ftbfs with 3.4 :)
<ajmitch> iirc this was one that originally compiled with 4.0, but subsequent updates broke it
<Nafallo> ajmitch: hi :-)
* Nafallo says morning all!
<ajmitch> doko: what is needed in rules to build with 3.4? I know there's an ABI flag to set
<doko> ajmitch: no flag.
<ajmitch> oh?
<ajmitch> useful
<doko> depends on the build system, try export CC=gcc-3.4 / export CXX=g++-3.4
<ajmitch> socketapi built fine with 3.4
<ajmitch> for a test I changed the /usr/bin symlinks to make sure it used 3.4
<ajmitch> ah, debuild cleans the environment..
<\sh> doko: pong ok :)
<ogra> yay, tse3 builds
<\sh> ogra: this warped stuff result in a beer bath next time ;)
<whiprush> tseng: nice release name. ;)
<tseng> whiprush: thanks.
<tseng> ha ppc failed
<ajmitch> and this upload was for ppc love?
<tseng> oh fuck me
<tseng> we have to bootstrap cli-common again
<tseng> when you ftbfs on an arch, you still get the arch indep bits built on ppc
<tseng> and since its a version ahead of the arch dep bits, the whole mess in uninstallable
<tseng> thanks to cli-common mono is its own build-dep
<ogra> heh... its a PTIA
<tseng> definately
<tseng> i didnt even think of it
<\sh> ogra: i fixed now 3 bugs in this damn warped package
<ogra> does it work ?
<\sh> ogra: I'm just not finished with fixing :)
<ogra> heh...
<ogra> fun
<\sh> fixing, creating patch, copy patch to debian/patches, breezy build *ubuntu1.dsc
<\sh> and it's not over
<\sh> arped/TimeWarpDecentralizedEventSetFactory.h:55: error: expected `)' before '*' token
<\sh> warped/TimeWarpDecentralizedEventSetFactory.cpp:38: error: prototype for 'TimeWarpDecentralizedEventSetFactory::TimeWarpDecentralizedEventSetFactory(TimeWarpSimulationManager*)' does not match any in class 'TimeWarpDecentralizedEventSetFactory'
<\sh> another bug
<\sh> new one
<\sh> oh my god..this is a desaster...for what do we need warped?
<ajmitch> \sh: yeah, I've got one that looks just like that :)
<ajmitch> \sh: there's only 1 package that I see depending on libwarped0
<\sh> but do we really need this app?
<ogra> \sh, to make tyvis compile :)
<\sh> what the heck is tyvis?
<\sh> we need a package statistics about the installations
<ajmitch> ah, VHDL simulator
<ogra> \sh, the package that depends on warped ;)
<ajmitch> very useful :)
<\sh> vhdl? wit?
<\sh> wit== what is that?
<ajmitch> VHSIC hardware description language :)
<ajmitch> the language that you'd describe a chip in
<\sh> something to eat? pr0n? ,-) i never heard about it...100.000 opensource packages worldwide, and two packages i'm not using in a regular enviroment...
<\sh> that means a lot of beer from ogra..yes...
<ajmitch> hehe
<ogra> a barrel
<ogra> or two
<\sh> a ? at least 3 ;)
<ajmitch> I wish ogra was close enough to supply beer :)
<ogra> heh
<Amaranth> hrm, tomboy applet and gnome-panel 2.11.3 don't get along
<tseng> rebuild it?
<\sh> ogra: with this error, u have to provide 5 barrels of beer and 100 kg of nice filet steaks
<\sh> ../src/.libs/libwarped.a(eclmplReliablePhysicalCommunicationLayer.o)(.text+0x33d): In function `eclmplReliablePhysicalCommunicationLayer::physicalInit(SimulationConfiguration&)':
<\sh> /usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux/4.0.1/../../../../include/c++/4.0.1/ext/mt_allocator.h:368: undefined reference to `eclmplTimer::start()'
<\sh> ../src/.libs/libwarped.a(eclmplReliablePhysicalCommunicationLayer.o)(.text+0x548): In function `eclmplReliablePhysicalCommunicationLayer::checkRetransmissionTimeout()':
<\sh> warped/eclmpl/eclmplReliablePhysicalCommunicationLayer.cpp:355: undefined reference to `eclmplTimer::start()'
<tseng> making a livecd seems easier than I thought
<ogra> why ? arnt they fun ?
<ajmitch> \sh: check for any friend classes, protected members, etc :)
* ogra dicks
<ogra> ducks even
<\sh> ajmitch: yeah
<\sh> something like this..shitty crappy code that is
<ajmitch> \sh: and hope that it doesn't abuse templates
* trulux heh
<\sh> ajmitch: think there is something wrong with the library itself...there is something missing
<ajmitch> worrying
<tseng> man i should have seen this coming
<tseng> people arent smart enough to figure out my rewrite of this intranet web app
<tseng> they need to click the link with the same name as on the old page.
<ajmitch> people can't handle change
<\sh> http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/shermannpics/desktopshots/
<ajmitch> no matter how small
<\sh> i will post now screenshots every hour at least ;)
<ajmitch> oh, a kde user
<ajmitch> my condolences :)
<\sh> sure
<ogra> hmm, nice shot
<ogra> pbuilder: Failed autobuilding of package
<ogra>  -> Aborting with an error
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch> my screen would show a hoary install running in qemu at the moment
<ajmitch> a friend of mine is having install issues
<rtcm> hello, I noticed ghc6 is FTBFS due to itself not being installable because it depends on libgmp3 which changed name due to the CXX transition, so what is there to do about it?
<tseng> that doesnt look as bad as i remember kde
<ajmitch> rtcm: we can get it rebuilt
<ajmitch> tseng: kde has improved
<ogra> rtcm, if the library transition is done we'll have to rebuild the c++ universe....
<tseng> doko already started
<tseng> rebuilding universe apps
<ogra> oh, so the lock is released already ?
<tseng> dunno but he is going nuts with apps
* ogra didnt note the announcement
<tseng> look at changes from yesterday
<ogra> tseng, currently i look at changes with "ctrl-A ,select mark all read"
<ajmitch> ogra: he sorted out with elmo & infinity that once the libs hit, the apps can be autobuilt
<ogra> ah, great
<ajmitch> I believe with some dep-wait magic on the buildds
<ogra> we should have an announcement for that :)
<ajmitch> instead of just blacklisting
<ajmitch> confirm with doko :)
<rtcm> so it's a matter of time then...
<ogra> rtcm, but every help is appreciated ;)
<doko> well, not all yet, some people are still working on C++ libs ...
<tseng> man compressing the livecd cloop takes forever
<tseng> this is a wimpy p3
<rtcm> ogra, I would like to at least build a pkg for myself
<rtcm> yet i dont how to overcome the circular dependency
<ogra> rtcm, so help with the transition, its the easiest way to get familiar with thepackaging structures
<ogra> and it will help to speed up the transition for the apps :)
<rtcm> my plan was to modify the build-depends but with it having a dep on itself it gets complicated, how do you guys solve it?
<tseng> just like that
<tseng> youd have to build it twice
<ajmitch> oh, it's one of them..
<ajmitch> bootstrap madness
<jdong> tseng: yeah, not to mention how deleting files doesn't work out too well ;)
<ogra> deleting files ?
<tseng> yeah im not sure what he means either.
<jdong> livecd...
<jdong> deleting files doesn't make the cloop smaller
<jdong> because it isn't zeroed
<jdong> most of the times, you'll need to rsync to a fresh loopback image after customizing
<tseng> oh.
<tseng> im not sure i need to make it smaller
<tseng> i only added one package
<jdong> yeah; I was trying to add about 1GB of packages by removing X
<jdong> and that didn't go so well
<tseng> i removed gaim and openoffice
<tseng> since they are pretty useless for this project
<jdong> that's not gonna save you much space, unless you rsync
<jdong> there's a slight chance of reusing reclaimed space, but most likely that'll save you less than 5% of what you freed
<tseng> well ethereal probaly fits in 5% of openoffice :P
<jdong> yeah, not to mention the ISO isn't filled to the brim to begin with
<jdong> BTW, use --best compression
<jdong> it makes a pretty big size difference
<tseng> hm
<tseng> did you document all this somewhere?
<jdong> no;
<jdong> well, I'm off to take a stats exam :)
<ajmitch> good luck
<mgalvin> morning all
<ajmitch> hi mgalvin
* Amaranth heads for bed
<ogra> mgalvin, nice, you subscribed :-D
<\sh> ogra: last try with warped...if this is not working...I will throw it away
<ogra> \sh, if this is not working try gcc-3.4 as last resort
<\sh> ogra: no...I will fix it ... and when it is  the last what i'm doing
<ogra> heh
<mgalvin> ogra, yup :),  i also started reading through all the stuff I can find on what you guys have done thus far
<ogra> \sh, if it gives you heart attacs, just switch back to 3.4.... we still need you for other stuff
<ogra> mgalvin, not very much yet.... we're still at a organizational stage
<\sh> hey...don't worry about me and sourcecode stuff ;) my ex-wife kills me before
<ogra> mgalvin, i'll be at the skolelinux conference with mark next weekend, i hope to get some more ideas there
<\sh> installing
<\sh> package building
<ajmitch> sigh, managed to throw away a few hours
<\sh> looks ok
<ajmitch> trying to help friend get hoary installed, failed each time
<ajmitch> warty failed, too
* ajmitch hates hardware :)
<\sh> ogra: thank me :) I'm uploading :)
<ogra> yay
* ogra jumps back on tyvis
<ajmitch> it works?
<mgalvin> ogra, great, i wish i could go, but i'll just have to read about
<ajmitch> \sh: well done :)
<\sh> ood signature on /home/shermann/breezy/transistion/new/warped/warped_20031216-5ubuntu1.dsc.
<\sh> Uploading via ftp warped_20031216-5ubuntu1.dsc: done.
<\sh> Uploading via ftp warped_20031216-5ubuntu1.diff.gz: done.
<\sh> Uploading via ftp warped_20031216-5ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
<\sh> Successfully uploaded packages.
<ajmitch> nearly 3am, must deal with friend's fs errors tomorrow :)
<\sh> but i really don't know if this is working in  a real enviroment ..only fixed the build errors ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: if it compiles, it works, right? ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: well...
<\sh> ajmitch: since this is a numbercrunching whatever shiddy source...
<\sh> and now i need a coffee and something to smoke...
* ajmitch is off to bed, night all
<ogra> night ajmitch
<Riddell> \sh: konqueror-shortcuts comments on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUNewPackages
<ivoks> ubuntu rocks! :)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> :)
<ivoks> you remeber that wifi-radar?
<ivoks> ok, i packaged simple upstream source
<ivoks> but this last version of ubuntu's package
<ivoks> will have automatic detection of wifi interface and automatic detection of installed dhcp client
<ivoks> instead od Depends: dhclient, it will have Depends: dhclient | pump | dhcpd
<ivoks> all these patches camed only 12-24 hours after new upstream source and my ubuntu-package release information
<ivoks> and will be included in next upstream version :)
<\sh> ok..preparing to go home...laters guys
<dholbach> bye \sh
<mgalvin> later \sh
<Riddell> \sh: feedback of qinx and njam on MOTUNewPackages
* mgalvin swears at legacy integration code and goes to lunch
<DanielN> ree.. wmaker installed here too now :)
<mgalvin> does anyone have a sec to review a very simple package?
<DanielN> mgalvin: well, i'm not a motu at all, but Distribution must be breezy, not unstable.. if you're talkin about mmstrip
<mgalvin> DanielN, yea thats the one, good catch, thnx
<DanielN> np ;)
<DanielN> mgalvin: you could put the cutted version of GPL in debian/control
<jamessan|work> you mean copyright?
<DanielN> argh yep
<DanielN> :)
<mgalvin> is that the prefered method, and just link to /usr/...gpl
<mgalvin> that would be cleaner, i'll just do that
<DanielN> i'm not sure, but it seems logical to me, cause the full version of GPL is contained in every debian/ubuntu install
* jamessan|work has always used the dh_make template which automatically inserts the proper stuff into copyright
<DanielN> jamessan: mhm.. i'm using dh_make too, but there isn't any license information automatically put into debian/copyright
<mgalvin> yea, i use dh_make too, and just filled in all the required stuff
<jamessan|work> DanielN: if you specify that you're packaging a gpl licensed piece of software when you invoke it, there is
<tseng> there should be a dh_make --cdbs
<tseng> that doesnt give me a raft of crap
<jamessan|work> DanielN: -c gpl  is the option
<DanielN> jamessan: i should read more man pages ;) but thanks for that hint
<jamessan|work> --cdbs is quite handy, too
* DanielN is eating now something...
<jamessan|work> probably found out about that from idling here
<jamessan|work> may have even been tseng that mentioned it  ;)
<dholbach> jamessan|work: idling here is excellent :)
<tseng> ?
<tseng> is there really a --cdbs?
<tseng> i just said < tseng> there should be a dh_make --cdbs
<mgalvin> do you guys know of any good cdbs howtos
<jamessan|work> hah
<ogra> jamessan|work, but please mak sure you fully understand dh_* before packaging with cdbs
<jamessan|work> tseng: yes, there is
<tseng>        -d, --defaultless
<tseng>               Skips  applying the default templates to the target debian directory
<jamessan|work> ogra: I started with debhelper.  I don't think cdbs was around when I first started packaging
<ogra> jamessan|work, ok :)
<dholbach> mgalvin: https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial/CDBS
<dholbach> mgalvin: and /usr/share/doc/cdbs/examples
<tseng> hm I dont like that
<ogra> tseng, what ? -d ?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> it does absolutely nothing
<tseng> I want a basic CDBS package w/o a million .ex files in it.
<tseng> not just a different rules file
* ogra wonders if we shouldnt have a policy that the forst packages a MOTU makes _have_ to be dh_* based
<mgalvin> dholbach, thnx
<dholbach> ogra: no
<ogra> tseng, use dh_make, throw away the rules file and you are done, or not ?
<ogra> dholbach, why ?
<ogra> dholbach, i think thats really serious
<dholbach> because people tend to copy and paste random crap together
<tseng> ogra: eh there are a bunch of examples
<dholbach> and cdbs helps with this problem
<ogra> dholbach, nope
<tseng> *.EX
<dholbach> i think so
<ogra> dholbach, it prevents people from undersanding the essential part
<tseng> or it lowers the barrier to get started
<tseng> and they can learn that part as they go
<dholbach> it doesn't and if people neglect to understand you won't change it with a policy :)
<ogra> dholbach, its fine if you are an old fart in packaging.... but starting with cdbs leaves you dumb...
<tseng> if people have to learn it all at once, ala the Debian New Maint guide to do anything
<dholbach> no... it just prevents you from copying random stuff together you don't understand
<tseng> they might just never finish
<mgalvin> in learning all this stuff I have found it very valuable to use the dh_* stuff, it has helped to learn a lot
<ogra> dholbach, if people dont understand the dh scripts they shouldnt be MOTUs
<Nafallo> tseng: ++ :-)
<tseng> ogra: i started with CDBS.
<tseng> on tomboy
<ogra> dholbach, thats up to the reviewer to judge if copy n paste is bad or not....
<dholbach> to the reviewer?
<ogra> but i've seen too many packages where cdbs and debhelper was totally mixed up....
<ogra> dholbach, yep
<dholbach> i think it's generally bad
<ogra> dholbach, why should copy n paste be wrong if the result is ok...
<ogra> and the reviewer should judge the result.....
<dholbach> because it's error-prone
<dholbach> it doesn't make any sense
<ogra> i cant even judge the skills of a packager if he uses cdbs
<dholbach> if i can abbreviate certain tasks, i do it
<dholbach> you can by the result: missing files, files in the wrong directory, automatic manpage-generation, ...
<ogra> how do i know how good he read his "make" handbook to understand rules files ?
<dholbach> there are enough indicators for good skill
<ogra> not in cdbs packages....
<ogra> my mother could build one if i gave her a list what to do
<dholbach> that's your opinion
<ogra> its nice to get the task done...
<ogra> but for nothing else
<dholbach> so you think it's "dirty"?
<mgalvin> my only argument here is that i (personally) find it enlightening to do it the "hard" way first the use the more automagic stuff after knowing how the guts work
<ogra> and i really cant judge anyone after a cdbs package with 3 lines in the rules
<ogra> dholbach, nope, but i think its totally useless to check packaging skills
<dholbach> i really don't think so
<ogra> or to teach people packaging
<dholbach> most packages have problems which you have to solve yourself
<dholbach> but spending time on reading up each and every manpage of a dh_* command seems like a waste of time to me; i shouldn't admit it loudly in here, but i think you learn stuff as you go
<ogra> dholbach, reading manpages is never a waste of time
<ogra> and you should definately know about dh_gconf if you package a gnome app package for example
<dholbach> i was talking about each and everyone and copied/pasted rules files
<ogra> even for cdbs usage
<mgalvin> nothing wrong with learn as you go, we all learn new stuff as we go everyday, although some inital ramp up reading can be a big help in gaining an initial understanding
<DanielN> <tseng> they might just never finish ---- but that seperates the most motivated from the lower motivated ;)
<ogra> mgalvin, thats not waht i'm saying, learn as you go is what we all do..... i'm a bit concerned that each and everyone here advises people to use cdbs...
<dholbach> hi mitsuhiko
<ogra> since it gains us not the knowledge growth i'd expect in here....
<dholbach> ogra:  most of the time we have people working on the transitions (and that's where i learned), not by the rules-files I copied and pasted :)
<ogra> and good knowledge about packaging is the base of all good QA
<ogra> dholbach, sure.... and most of the time you have to work with debhelper stuff there...
<dholbach> yes
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: Hi
<dholbach> i think it's more important to have a rules file, which starts by doing general stuff first, just by inclusion of stuff and then you start expanding where you need it
<DanielN> oho, mitsuhiko ;)
<dholbach> and you DO need it sometimes
<dholbach> because a cdbs-rules file, i can write by hand now
<ogra> ergh
<ogra> \sh, broke the naming of warped....
<dholbach> oh
<dholbach> what's its name now?
<ogra> libwarped0c2
<dholbach> what was it's name before?
<ogra> but the -dev lib doesnt depend on it
<ogra> libwarped0
<dholbach> oh
<ogra> hmm, it does depend on it... thats strange
<dholbach> is it just the depends line, he forgot or what?
<dholbach> hey littlepaul
<mgalvin> so to create a (basic) cdbs package one should: dh_make ..., remove junk, and add cdbs .mk's to rules, correct? sorry if its a silly question i just haven't used cdbs yet, been doing it all with dh_*
<ogra> nope, its rather a lag on the archive i think, the package looks sane.... but the -dev lib tries to pull libwarped0
<littlepaul> hi dholbach ;-)
<dholbach> mgalvin: have a look at /usr/share/doc/cdbs/examples and the webpage i told you - it just affects debian/rules and ok you have to Build-Depend on cdbs of course
<dholbach> ogra: do you have the correct version?
<ogra> my pbuilder has the right version of the lib but not the -dev package....
* mgalvin going to do more reading, thnx
<ogra> let me try another update
<dholbach> forgot to update shlibs
<ogra> dholbach, no .shlibs file :)
<dholbach> in the rules-file?
<ogra>    dh_makeshlibs -V
<ogra>         dh_installdeb
<ogra>         dh_shlibdeps
<ogra> everything there...
<dholbach> By default, the shlibs file generated by this program does not make packages depend on any particular version of the package containing the shared library.
<dholbach> that's for dh_makeshlibs
<ogra> thus the -V
<ogra> but still, the package name changed ....
<dholbach> yeah... i quoted the -V paragraph
<ogra> ah, i havent looked at the manpage..
<dholbach> ok... i'm off again
<dholbach> have a nice evening
<ogra> ciao
<mgalvin> later dholbach
<dholbach> *wave*
<herve> hi all!
<mgalvin> hi herve
<mitsuhiko> hi
<ogra> hey herve
<siretart> hi folks
<mitsuhiko> hi
<mgalvin> hi siretart
<DanielN> hi herve
<\sh> re
<DanielN> wb \sh :)
<mitsuhiko> hi
<\sh> i'm tired...
<ogra> \sh, sorry to say that, but you forgot to rename a link in the warped rules file :/
<\sh> ogra: can happen after all this *censored*
<ogra> its only a doc link....
<\sh> u fixed it? :) thx a lot
<herve> \sh, yeah, I had alerts from your work every 15 min or so
<herve> amazing
<herve> impressive, even
<DanielN> herve: MD5SUM mismatch in when is fixed, just as notice :)
<herve> hehe
<herve> something tells me universe will soon have a new package ;-)
<\sh> herve: alerts?
<herve> will check later
<herve> \sh, wiki updates
<\sh> herve: that was yesterday
<herve> I lived quite off-time these days :)-
<ogra> \sh,  not yet... but i have it here...
<ogra> and it didnt save tyvis.... still compile errors :(
<\sh> ogra: grmpf....
<\sh> is it also c++?
<herve> btw, I won't be much present this week
<ogra> \sh, yes... but i havent looked for patches yet....
<\sh> show me one of the errors
<\sh> ahh....i will compile a wiki page with some interessting docs about porting 32bit to 64bit software, one comes from amd and the other one from suse
<ogra> sounds like a very good plan
<\sh> but sometimes it's not helping
<\sh> much
<tritium> Hi trulux
<jbailey> jamessan: What do you mean cdbs wasn't around?
<jbailey> jamessan: Didn't I get you to use it?
<jamessan|work> jbailey: I had been packaging (for myself) before you started sponsoring me and I don't recall if you are who first told me about cdbs.  I think I was already using it.  In fact, I seem to recall a comment about how you liked that I was already using it since it made things easier for you
<jbailey> That might be possible.
<jamessan|work> yup. "Ah, python distutils using cdbs."
<jbailey> =)
<Riddell> can you "Build-Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}" ?
<tseng> hm no
<Riddell> didn't think so
<elmo> no
<tseng> that gets written to a file at build time
<tseng> build-depends is put into the .dsc and stuff
<tseng> when you build the source only package
<elmo> the real problem is there's a mapping for library -> Depends info, there's no similar mapping from library -> Build-Depends info (i.e. -dev package name, version)
<elmo> super-long-term/blue-sky there should be, but right now, you have to do it byhand
<siretart> how to display the build dependencies of a not installed source package?
<\sh> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PortingSourcesFrom32To64Bit
<\sh> siretart: apt-cache showsrc <srcpackage>?
<jamessan|work> siretart: look at the .dsc
<siretart> \sh: thanks
<siretart> jamessan|work: I wanted to avoid downloading the source, \sh's solution is what I was looking for. thanks anyway!
<jamessan|work> ah
<jamessan|work> that is handy
<\sh> If you have some infos about porting apps/libs from 32 to 64bit please put it on this page, mentioned earlier
<ivoks> hi all
<\sh> hey ivoks
<mitsuhiko`futter> moin
<mitsuhiko`futter> ^^
<herve> I sent a RFS on debian lists (*hint* *hint*) ;-)
<herve> hi ivoks
<\sh> Unfrgiven: I'm taking some of your libs...to have doko frozenapps list cleared out :)
<ivoks> libopenthreads-dev: Depends: libopenthreads (= 0.9.8-4) but it is not installable
<ivoks> doh! :(((
<ivoks> that's my package :(
<\sh> u uploaded?
<ivoks> no
<HiddenWolf> Guys, I have a weird problem using vlc in hoary. Should I still report a bug there?
<ivoks> no
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> ivoks: whats the problem? it's one of the libs missing during cxx
<ivoks> yes...
<\sh> ivoks: your key is signed?
<\sh> ivoks: ping elmo and nerve him ;)
<ivoks> for a moment i tought i sent wrong pathes :)
<ivoks> \sh: i contacted elmo and mako
<elmo> sh: that's not very helpful ...
<ivoks> there is some problem with my gpg
<ivoks> so... i can only wait
<\sh> elmo: i'm teasing ;)
<ivoks> oh, elmo :)
<ivoks> hi herve :)
<ivoks> xlibs.h creats chain FTBS :)
<ogra> ivoks, yep
<ogra> ivoks, thats a daniels problem... we have to wait
<ogra> ivoks, he said it would be solved tomorrow
<ivoks> is unforgiven working on ace?
<ogra> woah, really ?
<ogra> ace is huge
<ivoks> ogra: nice, that would very nice...
<ivoks> i tought, maybe we could help him
<ivoks> i have one problematic source
<ivoks> opencv
<\sh> ask him
<ogra> ivoks, me too, tyvis....
<\sh> it's all one source
<\sh> ivoks: help ogra :)
<\sh> I'm taking dokos list
<\sh> http://lucifer.0c3.net/~adconrad/frozenapps.txt
<ivoks> \sh: you can take opencv :)
<ogra> OH !
<ogra> it built in the background and i didnt even notice
<ivoks> ogra: tyvis?
<ogra> dpkg-deb: building package `libtyvis1c2' in `../libtyvis1c2_20031216-5ubuntu1_amd64.deb'.
<ogra> dpkg-deb: building package `libtyvis1-dev' in `../libtyvis1-dev_20031216-5ubuntu1_amd64.deb'.
* ogra does a wild monkeydance
<ogra> finally....
<ivoks> :))
<\sh> fsck
<ogra> that package has eaten so much time recently
<Nafallo> hehe
<\sh> the diffs between gcc3.4 and gcc4 are to be damned
<Nafallo> kismet ftbfs :-/
<\sh> one patch applied, the next error occured
<ogra> \sh, some c++ advise, stdint.h didnt work, but:
<ogra> #ifndef INT64_MIN
<ogra> #define INT64_MIN (-(9223372036854775807 ## L)-1)
<ogra> #endif
<ogra> #ifndef INT64_MAX
<ogra> #define INT64_MAX ((9223372036854775807 ## L))
<ogra> #endif
<ogra> did
<ogra> any idea ?
<ogra> i could just leave it this way, but that doesnt feel sane
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> :)
<\sh> i have the solution
<ogra> yay
<\sh> u have the source of warped there?
<ogra> yep
<\sh> go to warped-*/src/warped/
<\sh> vi warped.h
<ogra> oki
<\sh> check under #if __HAVE_STDINT_H
<\sh> #include <limits>
<\sh> and define it just like there
<ivoks> khm...
<\sh> using namespace std
<ivoks> huh?!
<ivoks> where did i goet opencv-0.9.6?!
<\sh> numeric_limits<longlong>::max()/::min() is it
<ivoks> damn...
<ogra> \sh, sure its this file ?
<\sh> warped.h
<\sh> w8
<ogra> warped-config.h :)
<\sh> ah u don't have the patch
<\sh> check the patch
<\sh> const warped64_t warped64Max = numeric_limits<long>::max();
<\sh> const warped64_t warped64Min = numeric_limits<long>::min();
<\sh> const warped64_t warped32Max = numeric_limits<int>::max();
<\sh> const warped64_t warped32Min = numeric_limits<int>::min();
<\sh> hmm
<ogra> yep, i see it
<\sh> i think i made a mistake
<\sh> can u change long to longlong?
<ivoks> ok... am I crazy or what?!
<ivoks> there was opencv-0.9.6 in sid
<\sh> w8 lemme check the right modifier
<ivoks> now there is opencv-0.9.5-10
<ogra> \sh, sure
<ivoks> http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=opencv&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
<ivoks> check this out
<\sh> ogra: numeric_limits<long long>::max()/::min
<ogra> \sh, yeps
<ivoks> all packages are 0.9.5, but -doc is .6
<\sh> please change warped as well, pls :)
<\sh> at least just like this:
<\sh> numeric_limits<long long>::max()/::min() for 64max and 64min
<\sh> numeric_limits<long>::max()/::min() for 32max and 32min
<\sh> thx
<\sh> no w8
<ogra> oh, no int at all ?
<\sh> for warped i will do it
<\sh> ogra: int and long have the same size under 32but
<\sh> aeh bit
<ogra> yep
<\sh> on 64bit int != long and long != long long
<ogra> i read the docs on you wiki page ;)
<ogra> your
<\sh> it's the same with the docs...they're all weired
<\sh> anyways...take over warped ;) i've to fix gtkmm
<\sh> your warped stole me my brain, believe me ;)
<herve> night all
<ivoks> Mithrandir: ping
<lamont_r> bible-kjv needs gcc-4.0 love
* ogra wonders why all this cristian software is c++
<ogra> gnomesword is too...
<ivoks> ogra: copy/paste :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: he's on the pub afaik.
<Nafallo> :-)
<ivoks> on the pub?
<ogra> ivoks, c+ makes copy paste easier ?
<ogra> +
<Nafallo> ivoks: oui
<ivoks> ogra: no, but bible is bible, why write new when there is one allready, in c++ :)
<ogra> lol
<ivoks> Nafallo: in pub?
<ogra> ivoks, yes, in the pub
<\sh> gtkmm is totally crap
<ivoks> ok :)
<Nafallo> hehe, yea :-)
<ivoks> anyone else with amd64?
<Nafallo> on the pub in swedish ;-)
* Nafallo only has a hoary pbuilder atm
<ogra> Nafallo, norwegian
<Nafallo> ogra: no, I'm swedish :-)
* \sh has hoary and breezy pbuilder..so mine is bigger and longer ;)
<ogra> Nafallo, but the pub Mithrandir is gone isnt ;)
* \sh is going mad 
<ogra> Nafallo, at least i think that... dunno how far he likes to drive fr a beer :)
<Nafallo> ogra: hehe. unfortunally he didn't wrote where he was going on our channel ;-).
<ogra> Nafallo, what the hell do you do with a hoary pbuilder ?
<Nafallo> ogra: UniverseSecurity :-)
<ogra> ha
<ivoks> ok... it builds on i386
<ogra> Nafallo, so why arent you in the security team yet ?
<Nafallo> ogra: ain't I?
<\sh> ogra: did u say, gtk is ok?
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 shermann shermann 2175 2005-06-08 21:54 01_gtkmm.patch
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 shermann shermann  866 2005-06-08 22:25 02_src_clist_gen__h.patch
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 shermann shermann  588 2005-06-08 22:35 03_src_radiobutton_gen__h.patch
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 shermann shermann  588 2005-06-08 22:43 04_src_radiomenuitem_gen__h.patch
<ivoks> render.h:53:22: error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory jesus...
<ivoks> one more..
<ogra> \sh, as long as you dont mix it with c++, yes ;)
<ivoks> i'm so pissed right now...
<ivoks> no cxx untill X are fixed :)
<\sh> ogra: this gtkmm only consists of .gen_h files...and this will be later c++ code *crapcrap*
<ogra> ivoks, i got the same one here
<\sh> take the next
<ivoks> next?!
<Nafallo> ivoks: hehe ;-)
<\sh> after some stats on cxxlibrarylist doko is 1st, \sh is 2nd ;)
<ivoks> i tried 4
<ivoks> all same thing :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: daniels said something about tomorrow :-P
<ivoks> Nafallo: i know :)
* ogra doesnt want to be 3rd
* \sh wants to have a ubuntu mug and a canonical pin +
<\sh> a "I'm approved as member my Mark personally" t-shirt
<\sh> <braindeadmode/>
<\sh> s/my/by/
<Burgundavia> my member was approved by Mark?
<\sh> don't take me serious...i'm falling apart
<ivoks> it's \sh
<ivoks> one and only
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> Nafallo, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUSecurity ??
<ivoks> time for bed
<ivoks> ice cream and bed :)
<Nafallo> ogra: aha. we don't use the wiki much ;-).
* \sh feels like http://kurioses.blogweb.de/uploads/pictures/2hotdogs.jpg
<Nafallo> ogra: besides. neither are tseng and astharot :-)
<Nafallo> lol!
<ivoks> omg... poor dogs
<Nafallo> \sh: nice pic ;-)
<\sh> Nafallo: check kurioses.blogweb.de
<\sh> u will find more
<ivoks> finally...
<ivoks> looks like we are going to EU :)
<\sh> ok...gtkmm is finished and uploaded
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> damn wiki!
<Nafallo> UnicodeDecodeError :-(
<ivoks> bye all!
<\sh> ok..debian informed about gtkmm
<tseng> Nafallo: hm?
<Nafallo> tseng: UniverseSecurity. there is a list of members on MOTUSecurity. and we're not on that list ;-).
<Nafallo> tseng: basically :-)
<tseng> oh well
<tseng> i dont do anything
<tseng> Nafallo: im the biggest slacker on the security team, i submitted 0 fixes
<Nafallo> tseng: hehe :-)
<Nafallo> tseng: I spent the day on xfree86, then looked at the changelog and saw the lib I was fixing wasn't built anymore ;-).
<Nafallo> tseng: beat that ;-)
<tseng> rocked.
<Nafallo> hehe
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-16
<schweeb> howdy all
<Nafallo> schweeb: hi :-)
<lamont_r> clips needs xorg love
<lamont_r> and elastic needs gcc-4.0 lovfe
<lamont_r> as do entity and ferite
<lamont_r> and zopex3
<Nafallo> and kismet :-)?
<tseng> hi.
<tseng> merging changelogs is a pain
<crimsun> evening, tritium
<tritium> Hi crimsun.  How are you?
<ivoks> hi guys :)
<tritium> hi ivoks :)
<schweeb> wow, activity!
<crimsun> tritium: not bad, yourself?
<crimsun> hi ivoks, schweeb
<schweeb> what up
<tritium> crimsun, eh, stressful time...
<crimsun> wrapping up at work
* schweeb hopes IBM/Lenovo ships his laptop soon
<crimsun> tritium: I hear ya. Hang in there, it'll soon be complete!
<tritium> crimsun, thanks :)
<schweeb> raise your hand if you're working from home tomorrow!
* schweeb raises hand
<zul> heh...i always work from home...since im not working
<tritium> well, I just stopped by to say hello.  Good night, gentlemen
<schweeb> night, tritium
<tritium> night, schweeb
<schweeb> zul: vpns are godly
<schweeb> :)
<zul> yes they are nice
<blahrus> schweeb: why do you get to work from home tomorrow?
<schweeb> blahrus: I feel like it
<schweeb> can do everything from home I can do from work
<blahrus> haha nice
<blahrus> thats great you should have them pay you more and the can give someone else your office :)
<schweeb> blahrus: they're probably overpaying me as it is
<blahrus> I don't wanna hear about that
<schweeb> it's true ;)
<blahrus> well help me sell them on some of site stuff :)
<schweeb> hah
<\sh> moins
<janm> hi
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> my harddrive is full
<Amaranth> \sh: time to ditch the breezy chroot and upgrade for real :)
<\sh> Amaranth: u think so?
<\sh> yesterday it was only 31% now it's 100% and I don't know why..didn't download any pr0n yesterday or something like this
<Treenaks> \sh: du -sh is your friend I guess
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> ok...i will backup my breezy trans stuff on my rootie
<\sh> there is more place
<HostingGeek> "Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks"
<HostingGeek> That has been there for almost 1 weeks
<\sh> from now
<HostingGeek> WTF
<HostingGeek> you extended it by another week
<HostingGeek> lets say I only say that topic last week
<HostingGeek> and started complaing in the list
<Lathiat> how bout you shutup and get over it
<Amaranth> it's actually said that for over a month now
<Amaranth> but who cares, if you don't like it use hoary
<HostingGeek> Amaranth: Shess
<HostingGeek> thats crazy
<Amaranth> HostingGeek: Pay someone to do something about it, do something about it yourself, or stop complaining.
<\sh> see, all the guys are working on breezy...no one said, after 6 weeks breezy will be usable
<HostingGeek> Amaranth: I am not complain about it not being done
<HostingGeek> I am complaining that the topic says 2 weeks
<Lathiat> sure you are
<Lathiat> you have been fo rthe last 10 minutes :)
<HostingGeek> and in 2 weeks it might not be done
<HostingGeek> say something liker
<HostingGeek> "Please dont complain about mono deps until this notice is removed from the topic"
<\sh> "Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks and after 2 weeks, read this sentence again"
<Treenaks> or "For complaints about mono deps, please send 10 mails to tseng" ;)
<\sh> or "Pay tseng 1Billion dollars to fix it"
<Treenaks> \sh: ONE MILLION DOLLARS </dr evil>
<Lathiat> <tseng> <pinky in mouth> 1 billion cajillion triolion baillion dollars
<Treenaks> Lathiat: exactly :)
<\sh> finally the best way is: sit down, read the manual, fix it by yourself, become a motu ;)
<Treenaks> \sh: and piss off the debian mono team, no thanks
<\sh> finally the best way is: sit down, read the manual, fix it by yourself, become a motu and deal with the debian mono team (compliments to Treenaks)
<HostingGeek> lol
<HostingGeek> <Treenaks> or "For complaints about mono deps, please send 10 mails to tseng" ;)
<HostingGeek> whats his address?
<Treenaks> HostingGeek: postmaster@aol.com
<\sh> 150MB from 1.5GB finished
<Treenaks> HostingGeek: or no wait
<Treenaks> HostingGeek: hostinggeek@[127.0.0.1] 
<HostingGeek> lol
<Lathiat> turningmyselfin@fbi.gov
<HostingGeek> I wasn't talking about email
<HostingGeek> i was talking about email
<Treenaks> HostingGeek: were you or were you not talking about email?
<HostingGeek> I was talking about his postal address
<Lathiat> oh yes
<Lathiat> postal address and internet
<Lathiat> they always go well together
<Lathiat> especially with trolls
<\sh> ogra: pingeling
<Amaranth> ajmitch: smeg 0.7.5 could probably be accepted now, seb has undone the menu renaming
<siretart> moin
<siretart> wiki awfully slow for me over here. :(
<\sh> siretart: hey :) can u check please this list for libs, and send me a list of your already uploaded and compiled libs, so i can compile a list for infinity to remove those showstoppers? :) http://lucifer.0c3.net/~adconrad/frozenapps.txt
<siretart> \sh: will do. I prepared 2 upload, but could you please have a look at them?
<siretart> I want to avoid big mistakes
<siretart> \sh: I have nothing on this list prepared.  should I focus on libs on this list?
<\sh> siretart: I would like to, but right now, I'm not able to do anything, cause I'll need place...uploading some stuff to my backup hd ;)
<siretart> whops. :)
<\sh> siretart: i think most of it it
<\sh> it's done...i saw some packages from ogra, but it looks like that some of them are not uploaded right now
<siretart> \sh: what's the policy with transitioned libs, do they need to be reviewed before uploading, or may I upload at will?
<\sh> siretart: upload them :)
<\sh> put the debdiff in bugzilla
<siretart> debdiffs are here: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11636 and https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11510
<siretart> ok, will do
<ajmitch> \sh: I've got cln2 & ginac on that list
<ajmitch> not sure why pingus is waiting on clanlib, I thought I uploaded that?
* ajmitch checked
<ajmitch> s/ed/s/
<\sh> ajmitch: check the buildlogs or the archive..if they're on frozenlibs, we have to tell infinity to remove them..or to remove the apps from frozenapps.txt which r depending on those libs
<ajmitch> glcpu needs updated - it depends on libcommoncpp2-1.0-0
<\sh> libcommoncpp2 is uploaded and finished...
<ajmitch> look at what I said
<ajmitch> 1.0.. 1.3 was uploaded
<\sh> aehm
<Amaranth> ajmitch: nevermind on that, i think we're changing back again :)
<\sh> ah right...1.3 is the new version...so glcpu needs love
<ajmitch> \sh: yes :)
<ajmitch> ok, doko said clanlib was uploaded, but it wasn't
<ajmitch> so I'll upload that
<\sh> glcpu depends on libcommoncpp2-dev?
<\sh> (without version info?)
<ajmitch> \sh: yes, build-deps
<doko> ajmitch, I didn't say that
<\sh> hmmm...then it should get libcommoncpp2 (version 1.3) directly
<ajmitch> doko: sorry, it was closed with FIXED, comment said built for amd64/i386/powerpc/ia64
<ajmitch> I assumed that meant you uploaded it
<doko> ouch, maybe I did that for the wrong report ...
<ajmitch> doesn't matter, I'll upload
<\sh> doko: some news about ocaml? or is also waiting for a new xorg upload by daniels? :)
<ajmitch> editex has ocaml fun as well :)
<doko> \sh: yes, waiting on xorg
<\sh> there r some apps with ocaml deps or ocaml-libdeps, which needs an updated ocaml ;)
<\sh> and gnuradio must be fixed by upstream
<ajmitch> packages that build-depend on xlibmesa-dev, what's the replacement?
<\sh> xlibmesa-dev ;)
<ajmitch> but I got comments on my difs telling me to change the build-deps to libglu-dev-xorg :)
<ajmitch> even though it's not depending on the glu headers
<\sh> libglu-dev-xorg: Provides: libglu-dev, xlibmesa-glu-dev
* ajmitch notes that's just for fox1.2..
<\sh> eventually xlibmesa-gl-dev?
<ajmitch> fox only deps on xlibmesa-dev, but got a similar comment
<\sh> yeah...xlibmesa-gl-dev is the new package
<ajmitch> possibly
<\sh> Replaces: libgl-dev, libutahglx-dev, xlibmesa-dev (<< 4.2.1-5)
<ajmitch> eventually
<ajmitch> but xlibmesa-dev is at 6.8.2-22 at the moment
<\sh> Conflicts: libgl-dev, libutahglx-dev, xlibmesa-dev (<< 4.2.1-5)
<\sh> xlibmesa-gl-dev as well
<ajmitch> yes, I checked those before I asked :)
<\sh> xlibmesa-dev is only a transitional package it will include xlibmesa-gl-dev and libglu-dev-xorg
<siretart> will upload source package mesa in a few minutes
<siretart> gnarf. in a few hours. gotta leave now. cu
<torkel> tseng: are you aware that libgecko-cil and libgecko2.0-cil depends on firefox-browser instead of firefox? f-b is not available in breezy
<ivoks> :)
<tseng> yes
<\sh> I'm pissed now
<tseng> yes?
<\sh> those guys from this office...they're something like assholes...
<\sh> sorry..
<\sh> so many people, who r receiving more money then the NOC staff..and those engineering guys don't have a clue about the easiest methods of testing
<\sh> now they have hard+software running which is shitty, unstable, low level java shit
<\sh> and when we said from noc operations: we are not able to operate this shit, because it's unstable, it's eating memory blabla, what u get us a fcking statement like "it's not your concern, u r operating what we will give u..." and no
<\sh> and now, they're coming and pointing a finger on noc operations, that we didn't inform engineering, that this hardware and software doesn't work as expected...
<\sh> I'll go and fist now someone...i need to have my peace
<ajmitch> wonderful, clanlib ftbfs
<ajmitch> missing X11/Xlib.h
<tseng> thats supposed to be fixed this week
<tseng> if you believe it
<ivoks> ajmitch: one of many :)
<ajmitch> ivoks: it's mildly annoying
<tseng> wb ogra
<Amaranth> i wish the vlc devs weren't so stupid
<Amaranth> depending on hal and making it non-optional
<\sh> ajmitch: ping
<\sh> ajmitch: skstream?
<\sh> ajmitch: taking it...:)
<ajmitch> sigh
* ajmitch should just give up
<\sh> ajmitch: there r some more ;) I took them all ;)
<ajmitch> gee thanks
* ajmitch rm -rf's his cxx dirs
<\sh> skstream simage snacc
<\sh> sndobj snmpkit socketapi
<ajmitch> asking is nice sometimes, \sh
<\sh> aehmm...remove me then ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: so should I do any more cxx transition or am I wasting my time?
<\sh> ajmitch: sorry when I was acting to fast...
<\sh> +o
<ajmitch> I see you took over all the libcc* ones that I didn't file my diffs for
<\sh> skstream and simage are done
<\sh> ajmitch: it was monday?
<ajmitch> yes
* ajmitch wasted his time on skstream as well
<\sh> yeah..i just search bugzilla for entries
<\sh> shit
<\sh> sometimes i'm really annoying
<ajmitch> it takes quite awhile for me to be able to do anything with bugzilla, on this connection
<ajmitch> editing the wiki page is similar
<\sh> ok...tell me which diffs u have prepared, i will change the wiki page..the bugentries are already filed..so i will assign them to u
<ajmitch> currently trying to track down a useful patch for sigcx
<ajmitch> since I don't know baz well enough, and the source tree has changed a bit
<ajmitch> someone who generates template classes from m4 has to be at least a little evil
<ajmitch> or a friend of jbailey's
<jbailey> Hey....
<ajmitch> :)
<jbailey> You mean C++ template classes?
<ajmitch> yeah
<jbailey> Ugh.
<jbailey> From m4?
<ajmitch> uses m4 to produce templates with different arguments\
<jbailey> m4 is a lovely language, but why not cpp?
<tseng> hm my screen-auto-away thing is not working
<tseng> it sets away in irssi when you detach screen
<Lathiat> tseng: thats cool, how does that work
<tseng> it just watches for the pid of screen for your user i think
<tseng> every few seconds.
<\sh> back from fisting manager
<tseng> thats pretty gross
<tseng> in english anyway.
<ogra> lol
<jamessan|work> indeed
<tseng> bwar i need to finish gst-plugins-multiverse
<tseng> and write reviews for all the mono stuff
<\sh> sorry
<tseng> so I guess fixing boo man pages isnt a huge issue now that debian uploaded w/o them
<tseng> yay for policy
<\sh> ogra: did u uploaded srcpackage: unicon?
<\sh> ogra: it's on the frozenapps list...and if its uploaded and compiled we can remove it
<ogra> \sh, waits for the Xheaders to be fixed...
<\sh> ah
<ogra> \sh, its my last package from my list... tyvis waits for the last warped build with the fix from yesterday
<ogra> then i'm done
<ogra> daniels promised to fix X today.... lets see
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks | Please dont complain about X for the next 2 weeks
<\sh> ,-)
<ogra> \sh, X is ok....only the headers are stored in mixed locations currently
<\sh> just joking..thinking about a discussion this morning about the mono deps ;)
<ogra> *yawn*
<\sh> and I'm in <reallyangrymode/>
* ogra ignores mono dep discussions...
<tseng> someone told me about one just today already
<tseng> that i already uploaded a fix for
<\sh> mmm...
<\sh> sf.net downloads are not working?
<\sh> who was working on glcpu?
<ajmitch> noone, I said that it required a rebuild earlier
<\sh> ah :)
<ajmitch> and hopefully the libcommoncpp2-dev shlibs are correct
<\sh> hmmm...any special action for rebuilding? or only changing the version in changelog and uploading?
<ajmitch> change version
<ajmitch> a rebuild might only take a build version..
<ajmitch> eg 1.1-1 becomes 1.1-1build1, iirc
<\sh> so..no ubuntu stuff
<ajmitch> depends if it has an ubuntu version already :)
<\sh> no
<\sh> plain debian
<ajmitch> ok
* ajmitch is trying to help a friend get ubuntu installed
<ajmitch> it fails consistently each time
* ajmitch stabs beagle
<tseng> :'(
<Treenaks> ajmitch: don't install breezy for noobs
<ajmitch> Treenaks: pfft
<ajmitch> I'm helping him install hoary
<ogra> with beagle ?
<ajmitch> tseng: well, it got to about 900MB mem usage before I killed it
<ajmitch> ogra: 2 different things
<tseng> ajmitch: well, yes
<tseng> it needs alot more love yet
<ogra> ajmitch, get more mem ;)
<tseng> we have a few months.
<ajmitch> ogra: surely long^Wbreezy should work fine with 1GB?
<tseng> long?
<tseng> oh.
<ajmitch> tseng: I think it choked on my cached liferea rss
<tseng> boo liferea
<ajmitch> the cache dir is about 60MB for it
<tseng> gross
<ogra> tseng, its written in boo ? thats news to me
<tseng> blam throws the old crap out
<tseng> ogra: :D
<tseng> i wonder why boo didnt come over yet
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> I didn't want the old crap thrown out
<tseng> it was uploaded to unstable afaik
<\sh> glcpu just build fine
<ajmitch> \sh: good
<\sh> on my local machine...lets wait for the other arch
<tseng> http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/b/boo/boo_0.5.5.1651-1.diff.gz
<tseng> gar
<tseng> it does have some manpages
<mgalvin> morning all
<mgalvin> siretart, ping
<tseng> \sh: gah, here comes my companies asshole
<tseng> "why the fuck blah blah"
<\sh> hehe...so lets be pissed together :(
<tseng> this guy couldnt figure out how to use my app
<tseng> clicking hyperlinks is tough.
<\sh> tseng: answer to him: RTFM?
<siretart> mgalvin: pong
<mgalvin> siretart, just wanted to let you know i updated cegui to that latest version and it will be in debian very soon
<mgalvin> i notified the debian maintainer, he will upload it when he gets a chance
<siretart> mgalvin: great! :)
<mgalvin> so when the c++ transition stuff is done, we can just pull it in from debian
<siretart> mgalvin: since it is a NEW package, we will sync it automatically
<mgalvin> siretart, oh I am also working with fog(the debian maintainer) on a new ogre package to support multiple platforms, there will be libogre-base5, libogre-glx5, and libogre-sdl5
<mgalvin> ok cool, even better :)
<siretart> :)
<DanielN> argh
<DanielN> i'll get in troubles to find someone, signing my gpg key :/
<tseng> did you search big lumber?
<DanielN> not yet
<DanielN> i'm in school actually
<DanielN> mhm
<DanielN> not in my near environment
<DanielN> :/
<ogra> hmmm, funny ubuntu-users, "So if I install for example gcc-4.0-base from the backports repository ....."
<ogra> doko ^^ did you have a look at that package ?
<tseng> its in there?
<tseng> wtf for
<ogra> no idea...
<ogra> but the user asks about it in -users
<tseng> i thought we agreed to not touch that stuff
<ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-June/038173.html
<doko> ogra: no, I don't comment on that one.
<ogra> heh
<ogra> doko, we will have official backports soon... so it would probably make sense to have a look :)
<ogra> since its the same guy...
<ajmitch> mm, backports..
<ogra> *shudder* (still)
* ajmitch might need to backport some zope stuff :)
<doko> ogra: maybe just require glibc >= 2.3.5 and binutils >= 2.16 and he will think twice ...
<ogra> heh
<jbailey> doko: Or they might not.  Careful what you ask for. =)
<ajmitch> doko: the problem is that people don't think, they just see shiny new versions :)
<tseng> ajmitch: new = good!
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> I can't wait for grumpy
<tseng> gcc 4 is a major version component bump
<tseng> that must mean its really good
<ogra> i think its not about tricking the backports guys..... the right approach is to embrace, squeeze and in the end swallow them to become real maintainers ;)
<tseng> ogra: i told him we would stop laughing at him if he closed the project and joined motu
<tseng> ogra: no luck.
<ogra> tseng, just dont give up ;) what will he do if we open a MOTUBackports team.... and offer him the lead ?
<doko> ogra: I can see a point, where he want to build OOo2 for backports. but in this case, he should better use the GCC included in OOo2
<tseng> ogra: erm, the same thing i do now
<ogra> you cant shut it dwn...
<ajmitch> poor people that try & use beagle from backports
<tseng> ogra: cry all day long while people in #mono point out the backport
<ogra> tseng, the current situation is odd, but not to solve right now...
<tseng> no one in there has any patience or appreciation of how much work it takes is all
<ogra> so lets look at the future... lets get these people in, let them have a team and we have an option to have some influence, the user demand for backports is to big to not do it it seems....
<tseng> the backport user doesnt understand the implications
<tseng> they just see "cool stuff + stable = win"
<ogra> the backport user just wants the latest crap, if it isnt available as deb he will alien an rpm or build from source.....
<tseng> < nathany> hi everyone, i'm trying to get Beagle running on Ubuntu and have run into
<tseng>           some problems...
<ogra> so having packages we can actually influence a bit and check for quality is the compromise in front of this users
<tseng> <snip not working crap>
<tseng> < nathany> well i'm using the debs from the Ubuntu Backports project, as recommended
<tseng>           on the website
<tseng> winner!
<ogra> cant jdong just backport the current backages and have an update ?
<ajmitch> as recommended on the beagle site, no doubt
<ogra> ajmitch, it is
<ogra> thats the sad part about it
<tseng> ogra: I guess
<ajmitch> latest beagle wants latest inotify to work nice
<ogra> ajmitch, really ? thats a versioning thing ?
<ajmitch> ogra: yeah, inotify 0.23 is in breezy's kernel
<ogra> tseng, hmm, the bad thing is that beagle involves dbus.... wont work....
<tseng> it doesnt
<ajmitch> 0.0.10 doesn't need dbus
<tseng> if he updated it.
<ogra> ah
<tseng> i asked him to leave it exactly like it was, and let people slowly move to breezy
<tseng> instead he tried to update everything
<tseng> and i keep hearing about it every day
<tseng> < orospakr> argh! the backports packages are no good
<tseng> < orospakr> MD 0.7 require monodoc
<tseng> < orospakr> but alas, it is simply not there.
<ogra> heh
<tseng> I could do this all day
<tseng> i dont want to hold his hand
<tseng> if you know what I mean.
<ogra> yep
<ogra> but this way people will grok how bad it is to use backports... its ok....(if you can ignore it)
<ogra> and it shows how urgent the teaming up is
<ogra> so in the end its a good thing
<tseng> its hard to ignore, i spend all my time trying to do it the right way
<tseng> and what people are actually using is a broken copy
<ogra> but thats not your fault
<ogra> we are working in a development version... its the fault of the guy making untested backports available
<tseng> but it turns people off to ubuntu-mono
<tseng> (which upstream picks over their own distro)
<\sh> ok...glcpu compiled on all archs
<ogra> tseng, but still... we are a development distro currently... the guy who pulls them from hee knows about it, i'd expect him to do a well test... if not, redirect the complaintments dirctly to him.... give the people his mailadress, he broek it, let him take the complaints
<tseng> thats a good idea, point them at his little forum
<ogra> yeah
<tseng> since he doesnt participate in upstream
<ogra> if he made the error, he has to cope with it
<ogra> and its something you shouldnt waste time and nerves on
<tseng> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=47
<\sh> who is it?
<tseng> jdong
<\sh> yeah...but what thread?
<tseng> there is no thread yet
<tseng> i hear about his bugs all day on irc, so i am going to make people complain on the forums
<\sh> i think it's cleared how he has to deal with backports
<tseng> well he is going against the standards we came up with
<tseng> no libraries, no interpreters, and i asked him personally to stop doing mono
<\sh> raise it upto sabdfl
<tseng> i dont want to raise it to anyone
<tseng> i want him to see his own bugs.
<tseng> its not a personal thing
<\sh> mark was involved...so someone has to take care about it...if there should be an official backports projects, he has to deal now with the rules
<ajmitch> sleep time, bbl
<\sh> tseng: between work/volunteer work and personal feelings, there is a difference..:) and right now, we're talking about work
<\sh> ajmitch: can i take the other packages?
<\sh> sndobj snmpkit socketapi?
<\sh> or r u working on it?
<\sh> anyways..going home...later dudes
<tseng> bye.
<tseng> we really need to come up with something for this tomboy icon
<tseng> it looks awful
<ogra> tseng, do you have the full iconset anywhere ?
<tseng> yes but tomboy doesnt use the icon theme
<tseng> it uses a static pixmap
<ogra> not what i saw at guadec...
<tseng> from who?
<ogra> on redhat and suse i saw other icons
<tseng> yes
<ogra> so the code seems to use it anyhow
<tseng> i think they just shipped the correct size
<tseng> let me find the suse rpm them
<ogra> hmm, thats what i maent, do you have all these icons ?
<tseng> yes
<ogra> good...
<tseng> but dajobe is installing 48x48
<ogra> i can look into it if you like
<tseng> and it scales badly
<tseng> no you have important tasks
<tseng> this is something stupid i put off
<ogra> lets just do it right... we have plenty of time for such stuff
<tseng> the srpm has every size included
<tseng> mkdir -p $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/opt/gnome/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/
<tseng> cp %SOURCE1 $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/opt/gnome/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/tintin.png
<tseng> huh
<tseng> they arent patching it to do that
<tseng> i am sure that didnt work for me
<tseng> let me try it
<ogra> it does, but you'll have to roll a new upstream tarball.... ugly
<tseng> no i dont
<ogra> err, they use tintin.png ?
<tseng> we uuencode the image
<tseng> and put it in diff.gz
<ogra> tseng, you just said without patching
<tseng> in debian/
<tseng> i mean they dont patch the source
<ogra> yep
<tseng> srpm is an archive that can have patches, original upstream source, and whatever else
<tseng> they put the images right in the archive
<tseng> but not in the source.
<tseng> no that isnt working here
<tseng> ill build their source
<mgalvin> anyone know what -dev package "xf86vmode.h" might live in?
<mgalvin> found it, libxxf86vm-dev
<siretart> hm there are issues with mesa (source package). Will defer upload until I realize whats going on there...
<\sh> re
<\sh> how good it is to run a journaled file system on usb hds
<bddebian> Howdy
<tseng> ogra: have you had a change to try beagle?
<ogra> not yet
<tseng> a chance.
<ogra> hmmm, installs fine :)
<ogra> tseng... doesnt work :(
<tseng> ogra: well, whats wrong
<tseng> I made one bug
<tseng> if it says somethign about sqlite
<tseng> its my fault
<ogra> nope
<ogra> Die Abfrage fr mdz ist mit folgendem Fehler fehlgeschlagen:
<ogra> System.Net.Sockets.SocketException: Connection refused in [0x00063]  System.Net.Sockets.Socket:Connect (System.Net.EndPoint remote_end) in <0x00032> Beagle.Util.UnixClient:Connect (Mono.Posix.UnixEndPoint remoteEndPoint) in <0x00046> Beagle.Util.UnixClient:Connect (System.String path) in <0x00029> Beagle.Util.UnixClient:.ctor (System.String path) in <0x00034> Beagle.Client:SendRequest (Beagle.RequestMessage request) in <0x00020> Beagle.Client:S
<ogra> endAsync (Beagle.RequestMessage request) in <0x000db> Beagle.RequestMessage:SendAsync () in <0x0020b> Best.BestWindow:Search (System.String searchString)
<ogra> thats what best shows me
<ogra> ah, and beagled crashed in the background
<ogra> tseng, now beagled and best work fine, but the query gets no responses
<ogra> i see it running in the beagled terminal.... but nothing in best
<tseng> someone said that earlier
<tseng> that it wasnt indexing anything
<tseng> mine does
<tseng> its pretty impressive, my system always works
<tseng> did beagled throw any errors
<ogra> nope
<tseng> with --fg --debug on?
<ogra> itsstill runs fine and indexex
<tseng> hm so its indexing now?
<ogra> i see the best query in the beagle terminal....
<ogra> but best doesnt show anything
<ogra> yep
<tseng> huh
<tseng> wow
<ogra> ok, another best try
<tseng> can you make a file called ogra
<tseng> and echo "ogra ogra ogra ogra ogra ogra" > ogra
<tseng> and search for that
<ogra> sure
<tseng> it worked for me.
<ogra> beagle still indexes fine...
<ogra> but slows down my system like hell... my disk only has 4200rpm
<tseng> ;(
<tseng> rlove just wrote a drive test thing
<tseng> so he can throttle it down when you are using the disk
<ogra> finds nothing....
<tseng> ok..
<ogra> DEBUG: worker removed: name=System.Object
<ogra> DEBUG: worker removed: name=HandleConnection (13)
<ogra> DEBUG: worker removed: name=Beagle.Daemon.QueryDriver+QueryClosure
<ogra> last line gets repeated 5 times
<ogra> thats what beagled spits out if i query
<tseng> i dunno what that means.
<tseng> yes mine says that too
<tseng> ** (gnome-cups-icon:5798): WARNING **: IPP request failed with status 1030
<tseng> why are we doing this btw
<tseng> is it polling something?
<tseng> it runs every few seconds
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> ask pitti
<Nafallo> is beagle supposed to understand I use IMAP? ;-)
<tseng> i use imap and it works fine
<tseng> evolution-data-server, dude.
<Nafallo> hehe, and it doesn't work. neither does files and addressbooks :-P
<tseng> well fix it
<tseng> and tell me what you did
<tseng> because mine works fine.
<tseng> *G*
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> I'll try :-)
<tseng> is this on amd64?
<Nafallo> is there anything more than remount the / to use user_xattr and run best I should do.
<Nafallo> yes, amd64 :-)
<tseng> yes
<tseng> remount
<tseng> export EXERCISE_THE_DOG=1
<tseng> that unthrottles it
<dholbach> and then?
<tseng> and run beagled --fg --debug
<dholbach> ok :)
<tseng> if you get sqlite error tell me
<dholbach> yuo should write a README.Debian :)
<tseng> and ill tell you how to fix
<tseng> dholbach: hm yes
<dholbach> i get about millions or error messages
<tseng> the beagle wiki is nice
<Nafallo> wholy shit! /me likes :-)
<tseng> millions?
<tseng> :D
<dholbach> quite a lot :)
<tseng> well msg them to me
<Nafallo> ERROR: Caught exception while instantiating Files backend
<tseng> oh taht would explain a bit
<tseng> dude trow is awake
<dholbach> oh yes... i have that as well
<tseng> yeah dude sqllite
<tseng> heh hold up a second
<Nafallo> tseng: see msg ;-)
<tseng> i see it
<tseng>  /usr/lib/mono/1.0/Mono.Data.SqliteClient.dll.config
<tseng> move that to
<Nafallo> WARN: Could not open Evolution addressbook.  Addressbook searching is disabled.
<tseng> /usr/lib/mono/gac/Mono.Data.SqliteClient/1.0.5000.0__0738eb9f132ed756/Mono.Data.SqliteClient.dll.config
<tseng> move to there
<tseng> ill fix that tonight
<tseng> then start your beagled's again
<tseng> im closing your msg, if you get more breakage paste fresh
<ogra> wow, stopping it takes a minute
<tseng> ogra: yeah it has alot of threads
<ogra> yeps
<tseng> esp with exercise mode
<tseng> < trow> tseng: My amd64 box was delivered earlier this week, but I haven't had time
<tseng>           to set it up yet.
<tseng> < trow> tseng: But pretty soon I'll be routinely building & testing on amd64.
<dholbach> ROCK
<ogra> yay \o/
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> tseng: msg ;-)
<tseng> Nafallo: do you have /usr/lib/beagle/Util.dll.config
<dholbach> i have it
<Nafallo> yes
<tseng> ok everyone install libmono-dev too.
<tseng> to fix daniel's
<tseng> thats an upstream mono bug we just fixed
<dholbach> WOW
<tseng> mis-managed so versioning
<dholbach> you ROCK SO HARD!
<tseng> :D
<tseng> Nafallo: so
<tseng>         <dllmap dll="libgnomeui-2" target="libgnomeui-2.so.0"/>
<tseng> is in /usr/lib/beagle/Util.dll.config
<Nafallo> libmono-dev is already the latest version.
<tseng>  /usr/lib/libgnome-2.so.0 do you have this Nafallo ?
<dholbach> WOW, IT F.CKING DOES SOMETHING
<Nafallo> tseng: nope :-)
<tseng> Nafallo: what is it
<tseng> er not that
<tseng>  /usr/lib/libgnomeui-2.so.0
<Nafallo> ooh, I missread. I have it.
<tseng> both?
<lsuactiafner> amd64 on ubuntu is very good
<lsuactiafner> chroots ect run perfectly also
<ogra> lsuactiafner, and the other way around too ?
<Nafallo> <dllmap dll="libexif.dll" target="libexif.so.10"/>
<Nafallo> <dllmap dll="libgnomeui-2" target="libgnomeui-2.so.0"/>
<lsuactiafner> other way around?
<lsuactiafner> i dont have an ubuntu 32bit system
<tseng> Nafallo: yes and you have that file in /usr/lib right?
<ogra> amd64 on ubuntu ?
<ogra> you mean ubuntu on amd64 ;)
<lsuactiafner> amd64 on ubuntu, works very well
<Nafallo> tseng: yepp
<tseng> Nafallo: wtf
<tseng> let me look at your message again
<lsuactiafner> even slashdot users said its outstanding
<tseng> yeah, Beagle.Util
<ogra> tseng, woha
<tseng> wth
<ogra> tseng, installed libmono-dev
<ogra> tseng, best doesnt survive :/
<tseng> Nafallo: eh so
<tseng> Nafallo: install libgnomevfs2-dev and see what happens
<tseng> that should definately be mapped
<tseng> i wonder if they did something evil on amd64
<tseng> to point to /usr/lib64 ?
<tseng> i thought it used ldpath, though.
<tseng> is anyone else getting
<ogra> tseng, /usr/lib points to /usr/lib64
<tseng> <Nafallo> Unhandled Exception: System.TypeInitializationException: An exception was
<tseng>           thrown by the type initializer for Beagle.Util.VFS.Mime --->
<tseng>           System.DllNotFoundException: libgnomevfs-2
<tseng> or libgnomeui for that matter
<ogra> YAY
<tseng> thats why
<Nafallo> tseng: fixed it :-)
<tseng> Nafallo: im a dumbass
<ogra> i got my first response :)
<ogra> best works
<tseng> Nafallo: so, you found a bug I didnt know!
<tseng> or forgot
<tseng> good job.
<ogra> hehe, and searching for ogra brings up tsengs blog as first hit, funny
<tseng> :D
<tseng> my blog has high beagle indexing powers
<ogra> DC of the Month
<ogra> CD even
<Nafallo> let's see if we can find more of them ;-)
<Nafallo> tseng: msg ;-)
<tseng> Nafallo: hm i dont think that one is mine :)
<tseng> can you put that in a pastebin and work with #dashboard/gimpnet?
<Nafallo> tseng: baah, it's beagle. ofcourse it yours ;-)
<tseng> Nafallo: i wrote every line!
<tseng> thats the joke at our office.. whenever there is an ubuntu bug they ask me
<tseng> and say, you wrote this didnt you?
<Nafallo> lol
<ogra> tseng, works absolutely fabolus here ;)
<ogra> i think best just didnt answer because beagled had not indexed enough yet
<dholbach> how long will beagled look? :)
<ogra> dholbach, eternal
<ogra> it indexes all the time
<Nafallo> tseng: anyone special I should bug? ;-)
<dholbach> and it seems to search all the time as well :)
<dholbach> eternally :)
<schweeb> omg dholbach and ogra
<schweeb> wassup
<dholbach> hey schweeb :)))
<tseng> Nafallo: trow, joe, dsd all rock
<ogra> schweeb, beagle on amd64 is up
<ogra> :)
<schweeb> nice
* schweeb still doesn't own an AMD64
<ogra> Nafallo, mee Novell :)
<ogra> meet even
<schweeb> but I will be getting my new laptop real soon now
<Nafallo> ogra: huga. you're scarying me ;-)
<tseng> schweeb: way to snub me
<ogra> Nafallo, no need to be scared ;) they are all nice guys.... i met them in stuttgart
<schweeb> tseng: oh, I'm too busy shuffling tapes
<schweeb> bish
<tseng> schweeb: yeah, you're an ass.
<ogra> lol
<Nafallo> ogra: *s*
<ogra> tseng, the file indexer doesnt seem to scan here, it doesnt find the ogra file i created....
<dholbach> WOW
<tseng> it takes awhile to do everything
<dholbach> IT NOW WORKS
<dholbach> ROCK
<ogra> yay
<dholbach> IT FINDS SOMETHING
<tseng> dholbach++
<schweeb> beagle?
<dholbach> yes
<ogra> dholbach, it will find *anything*
<tseng> sorry its so much trouble right now
<dholbach> wonder, if it will make my life easier
<tseng> to get it started.
<schweeb> boo
<schweeb> my laptop is still in "Packing" status
<ogra> dholbach, did google make your life easier ?
<Nafallo> tseng: I shouldn't trust the deps yet I see ;-)
<Nafallo> Could not open Evolution addressbook:
<Nafallo> System.DllNotFoundException: libebook-1.2.so.0
<tseng> its getting better :)
* schweeb stabs IBM/Lenovo
<dholbach> ogra: a bit
<ogra> dholbach, so will beagle ;)
<tseng> Nafallo: install it
<tseng> gosh
<tseng> :P
<tseng> thats not my package
<tseng> its schweeb's
<Nafallo> tseng: on my way ;-)
<ogra> heh
<tseng> evolution-sharp missing dep
<schweeb> blah
* tseng makes loud noises
<schweeb> need me to fix it?
<schweeb> cause I definitely don't have a breezy install
<schweeb> or even a chroot
<tseng> no its been sucked into my mini-seb cyclone of doom
<ogra> schweeb, you brought it in ?
<tseng> ill fix it for you and youll like it.
<schweeb> yep
<ogra> schweeb, see our policy.... you are doomed ;)
<schweeb> "mini-seb cyclone of doom" lol
<Nafallo> hehe
<schweeb> ogra: yea yea, I know... tseng's on the mofo
<dholbach> ROCK, i have PORN on my disk - i didnt even know it
<schweeb> hahaha
<schweeb> bonus!
<Nafallo> lol
<tseng> man
<Nafallo> I can't find mine :-P
<dholbach> so guys, when you download stuff on my box, please tell me the folder
<dholbach> thank you :)
<schweeb> ogra: I can start being useful again when I get my shiny new laptop from Lenovo ;)
<ogra> schweeb, great :)
<schweeb> my current laptop needs to be... stable
<Nafallo> tseng: it has the index everything before I even stand a chance to find it? :-)
<schweeb> so I can VPN to work, and be useful
<schweeb> not that I'm really ever that useful at work...
<tseng> Nafallo: yes.
<tseng> dholbach: can i blog you?
<dholbach> tseng: of course :)
<tseng> dholbach: thanks :)
<dholbach> no matter what i was supposed to be saying :)
<tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/log/?p=33
<ogra> hmm, not on planet yet
<ogra> i still see asses
<tseng> i just posted a second ago :P
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> :-))
<ogra> loool
<ogra> meh
<ogra> beagled stopped
<dholbach> and it didnt look up evo stuff yet
<Nafallo> lol
<ogra> dholbach, it did here
<tseng> you might be missing stuff for evo
<tseng> since schweeb sucks at packaging
<tseng> er.
<Nafallo> dholbach: you must likely have to install libebook-dev for that ;-)
<schweeb> oh
<schweeb> evo-sharp?
<schweeb> that's not me
<tseng> was that whip?
<ogra> Nafallo, only for the adressbook search...
<schweeb> duno
<Nafallo> ogra: we want that :-)
<tseng> i thought he was working on it and conned you into doing it for him
<schweeb> I did esf-sharp or something like that
<tseng> anyway, its a common issue
<tseng> schweeb: gsf
<tseng> with missing dllmaps
<schweeb> that's the ticket
<Nafallo> wtf! it looks inside my save guadecstreams :-P
<Treenaks> Nafallo: inside?
* Nafallo fears that console now...
<Nafallo> Treenaks: inside.
<Treenaks> Nafallo: aalib?
<Nafallo> Treenaks: I'll show you if it would be still for a momoent :-P
<Nafallo> DEBUG: L A: ,45 2 4,4238881110219
<Nafallo> DEBUG:  : =HC (71)
<Nafallo> DEBUG: D  
<Nafallo> DEBUG:  : =B.D.QD+QC =1
<Nafallo> DEBUG: F  C ////A.P.P.O.V.8.XXX.DVDR.DX-P0SS/CD2  ,70
<tseng> oh jeez
<Treenaks> Nafallo: wow
<Nafallo> DEBUG: *** R ://////A.P.P.O.V.8.XXX.DVDR.DX-P0SS/CD2/-8. => :XG4GUJU1O_6C4
<schweeb> wow
<schweeb> thanks for fucking my terminal
<dholbach> Nafallo: the blonde in the red dress?
<tseng> hah.
<tseng> dholbach++
<Nafallo> dooh!
<Nafallo> that's porn!
* dholbach can SEE :)
<tseng> the girl out of the red dress
<dholbach> who has nothing under the red dress
<bddebian> WHAT???
<bddebian> Where??
<ogra> bddebian, above
<Nafallo> hehe
<dholbach> Nafallo: you're a naughty boy
<ogra> bddebian, LOOK
<bddebian> bah
<tseng> bddebian: you need to cross your eyes.
<bddebian> heh
<Nafallo> dholbach: baah ;-)
<Nafallo> hmm, only 10G on my laptop :-P
<Nafallo> thank god it doesn't index my server ;-)
<Nafallo> tseng: how do I teach it to index my server btw? :-)
<ogra> nfs mount ?
<tseng> it cant do nfs yet afaik
<tseng> when it does it will be totally slow
<Nafallo> then I would have to install nfs :-P
<tseng> will have to use sqlite
<tseng> for the metadata
<tseng> instead of being on the file itself
<tseng> that means seek city.
<Nafallo> hmm
* Nafallo dreams of a future where we use beagle to replace Packages and Sources files ;-)
<tseng> buh?
<dholbach> beagled says there was no disk space anymore
<dholbach> and the disk is 42% full
<tseng> hm
<bradb> hey, MOTU'ers.
<bradb> what's your opinion for better task status names: New/Accepted or Unconfirmed/Confirmed?
<ogra> hmm
<tseng> hm im not sure I have an opinion.
<tseng> New/Assigned i think is bugzillaish?
<ogra> i think they are quite descriptive....
<bradb> ogra: what does Accepted mean?
<bradb> (in Malone)
<ogra> ok, just leave it New
<ogra> but a New bug is a New bug.... you cant describe New better i guess
<tseng> Assigned means that the bug has been looked at and assigned to the right person
<bradb> ogra: is it a "new bug" if it's not really a bug?
<\sh> New is "New but not Accepted by any dev" , Accepted is "Not New anymore, cause dev accepted and recognized it"
<tseng> and is no longer new
<bradb> tseng: Malone doesn't have Assigned.
<tseng> if its not a bug
<ogra> bradb, its new if no developer has given it a status
<tseng> i can mark it resolved invalid
<tseng> im not sure i udnerstand why something has to be confirmed first
<tseng> invalid is a resolution to me, not a step in the bug lifetime
<ogra> bradb, its assingned if someone got the task to resolve it
<ogra> bradb, as long as its not assigned, its unassigned :)
<bradb> the word I'm asking you guys to describe to me is "Accepted", not "Assigned"
<ogra> drop Accepted
<tseng> well im not sure why it needs to be Accepted at all
<bradb> tseng: what are you proposing instead?
<ogra> its New or not... it will be NOTABUG or CONFIRMED or NEEDINFO if its not new
<tseng> what does NEW matter? to me its assigned to a dev or it isnt
<tseng> sorry if that doesnt fit into your model.
<ogra> yep
<bradb> tseng: ok, let's be clear here. what statuses are you proposing exactly?
<ogra> tseng, New just mirrors unassigned and unconfirmed
<tseng> unconfirmed isnt that useful to me
<ogra> tseng, unconfirmed == new == not assigned
<tseng> here is my model, someone files a bug, it gets assigned to a generic account
<tseng> someoen watches those bugs and assigns them to the right place
<\sh> bug-wrangler
<tseng> then the assignee fixes the bug and updates the status
<tseng> "New" status doesnt mean anything at all
<tseng> to me anyway.
<tseng> if you have to write something there, New is as good a word as any
<ogra> tseng, so whats the difference between your model and the New model.... your generic mailaccount has the same functionallity
<tseng> sure you can list all New bugs I guess
<ogra> s/New/"New"
<tseng> and assign them
<tseng> so then its New/Assigned
<ogra> its not New anymore if its assigned i think
<bradb> right
<tseng> then can you auto-adjust the status
<tseng> to Accepted when someone assigns the bug for the first time
<ogra> i wouldnt use additional status fields ....
<bradb> tseng: ...and that's exactly why i think Accepted is a poor name for that status. :) from what you're telling me, you think it means that somebody's assigned to, and working on the bug.
<ogra> New/Assigned/Needinfo/Fixed
<tseng> well i see the usefulness if you dont have a bug wrangler account
<ogra> thats my list of stati i really need
<tseng> of having a New status
<tseng> for reporting
<bradb> tseng: when it could simply mean that the triager has gone through and feels confident that the bug is now assigned on the right thing, has the right severity and priority, and has a complete description.
<tseng> bradb: can we have Unassigned/Assigned?
<tseng> or new/unassasigned
<bradb> tseng: we can infer that from the assignee field, no?
<ogra> oh, i forgot Notabug in the above list :)
<tseng> we surely can
<tseng> if its empty
<tseng> you can make a report on that just as easily
<tseng> or assign it automatically to a bucket account
<ogra> and i guess users want "Reopen"
<bradb> ogra: i agree
<tseng> bradb: what other big projects do is, someone(s) is bug wrangler
<tseng> they get assigned all new bugs
<tseng> and get an email for every one
<tseng> they know who works on what, and route the bug.
<tseng> and set whatever initial status stuff.
<ogra> thats what mdz does for main....
<bradb> tseng: i'm trying to cater to bug squads too
<ogra> eah
<ogra> y
<tseng> bradb: rock on, so does that make sense?
<tseng> file a new bug, assign it to bug-wranglers
<ogra> i think a New status is good then....
<tseng> they assign it
<tseng> so you can make a list of bug-wrangler bugs
<tseng> if you want unassigned things.
<bradb> ogra: and what about "Accepted" again?
<ogra> tseng, we want a bug day with a hell of community involvement....
<tseng> bradb: can you tell us what *your* need for the field is?
<tseng> maybe that will help too
<ogra> so they should be able to just search in malone
<bradb> tseng: i did earlier: triagers. :)
<tseng> yep
<bradb> tseng: picture this scenario:
<tseng> well either way works then
<ogra> bradb, *i* personally dont need a "Accepted" status....
<bradb> you're part of the gnome bug squad
<tseng> New or assigned to bug-wranglers
<bradb> you find a bug that needs triaging
<bradb> you communicate with the reporter
<bradb> you're fairly new to this whole thing...you don't know a /lot/ about what everybody does in the project, you just want to help ensure the bug reports are high quality
<bradb> so, finally, you've gotten enough info to provide a useful description on the bug, you've assigned it to the right sourcepackage...
<bradb> you've set the priority/severity and versioned it correctly
<bradb> what status do you put this bug in to say you're done with it? (i.e. that it has enough info for the right person to come along and grab it.)
<tseng> ColinCharleQueue!!!
<bradb> heh
<ogra> you shouldnt set the prio
* tseng jokes, gimme a second
<ogra> that should be done by the devs
<tseng> priority should rarely change
<tseng> in my experience
<ogra> and the user shouldnt have an option to set the status
<ogra> its "New" automatically
<bradb> ogra: either/or (for example, GNOME's triage guide provides steps on how to set a good priority)...still, what state do you put it in now?
<tseng> yes gnome uses confirmed/unconfirmed status and such
<ogra> none, i just filed it, it should be New automatically.....
<bradb> ogra: "i just filed it" is not the use case i described :)
<ogra> i, the user shouldnt need to bother with staus, severity or priority
<tseng> ok so you file it the bug its new
<tseng> brad wants someone to be able to triage the bug and make it cleaner
<tseng> w/o assigning
<tseng> and indicate that in status, yes?
<ogra> hmm
<bradb> tseng: well, more importantly, do *you* *guys* think it's important to be able to distinguish a bug report from "just filed" to "a triager has looked at this; it's got all the info needed for somebody to work on it"
<ogra> sorry, but for me the usecase of malone changed since i'm also in main... it has to be a bugzilla replacement for my worknow... so my POV is probably biased wrongly
<tseng> ogra: yeah i am also pretty used to bugzilla
<tseng> to the point it seems Right to me.
<tseng> maybe its wrong :P
<ogra> hmm
<tseng> bradb: yes, thats not a bad idea
<bradb> hence Unconfirmed/Confirmed :)
<tseng> and it really does remind me of Colin Charles
<tseng> joking aside
<bradb> that's your problem
<bradb> :P
<tseng> Confirmed means something different to me
<tseng> i could be wrong
<tseng> but i think of bug/notabug or invalid
<bradb> tseng: what does "this bug has been confirmed" mean to you?
<ogra> bradb, yes, but a bug reviewed by a triager should be assigned after the review :)
<tseng> it means "I can reproduce this bug also"
<tseng> ogra: yeah I would agree with that
<tseng> if they cant figure out how to route the bugs
<tseng> we can make a table
<tseng> "gnome bugs go to seb"
<ogra> yep
<Nafallo> dholbach: does you beagled work if you restart it?
<dholbach> yeah... for a while, it does
<tseng> bradb: what if it was New/Reviewed/Assigned
<ogra> so i dont need confirmed/unconfirmed, but i have no idea how to keep pstream compatibility here
<Nafallo> dholbach: mine stopped indexing files and addressbooks :-/
<bradb> tseng: to me, "Reviewed" means somebody reviewed it, but implies nothing about the outcome of that review. "Assigned", to me, is something that's better inferred from looking at the assignee field, rather than creating a whole other status for it.
<tseng> yeah i dont care about it either but i see the usecase
<tseng> it would be nice to have people fixing up bugs
<ogra> bradb, there simply should be no review without outcome
<tseng> i dont care if they did or didnt
<tseng> im used to bugs being bogus
<Nafallo> hmm
<tseng> or rather expect it until proven otherwise
<Nafallo> tseng: if I delete .beagle it starts indexing again. I'll see if I can reproduce the error again :-/.
<tseng> Nafallo: ok
<bradb> tseng, ogra: just to be clear then: as the final word, do you guys think it's useful to have a way of differentiating bugs that haven't been triaged (i.e. brand new bug that just came into the system, could be pr0n link spam for all we know) from bugs that have been looked at by a more experienced person and tidied up to useful describe the problem?
<ogra> yep
<tseng> sure, its useful
<bradb> ok
<DanielN_> hi folks :)
<tseng> they would probably assign it in the same step
<bradb> i'll ponder that with mpt, thanks for your time
<tseng> just judging from other big bug trackers
* tseng gives up
<tseng> i cant help that guy
* \sh goes to bed..i'm not able to do anything productive 
<dholbach> sleep tight then, \sh
<dholbach> or go have a walk
<\sh> no i sleep ...
<dholbach> ok then... have a good night
<\sh> tomorrow I'm back in old mood :)
<\sh> cu guys.
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> bye \sh
<Nafallo> tseng: :-)
<Nafallo> tseng: have you done something evil to daniels yet? ;-)
<dholbach> beagle needs to have a look at xchatlogs
<dholbach> and emails :-/
<dholbach> that's be perfect
<Nafallo> dholbach: it does e-mails?
<dholbach> it should
<dholbach> but doesnt do for me
<Nafallo> dholbach: right. it doesn't.
* Nafallo -> phone
* Nafallo -> here
<ogra> dholbach, it should do xchat logs, they are only text files
<ogra> and since it scans the filesystem (including . dirs) it should do them too....
<dholbach> they don't seem indexed
<ogra> how long does beagled run for you now? mine started crashing at some point
<dholbach> yeah, i re-ran it then
<dholbach> HOLY CRAP - 300 mb of swap
<ogra> heh
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> i have a hell lot of "[beagled-index-h]  <defunct>"
<ogra> heh
<ogra> yep
* ogra wishes he could say something else ...
<dholbach> that's what i thought...
<dholbach> :-p
* dholbach hugs ogra :)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> :)
<lsuactiafner> anyone here use tc to do bandwidth limiting?
<lsuactiafner> or can anyone suggest an easier solution?
<ogra> money
<lsuactiafner> actually wrong window.
<dholbach> for one time actions i use trickle
<Nafallo> lsuactiafner: wondershaper :-)
<ogra> you could buy a big leased line with it :)
<ogra> its the easiest solution i think....
<Nafallo> hmm, does there exist a MOTURFP wikipage? ;-)
<abarbaccia> hey - anybody know a good program that might be in universe that you can use to make movies from a slideshow with music and such
<ogra> dunno if kino can do it.....
<ogra> or cinepaint probably .....
<lsuactiafner> Nafallo : thanks
<tseng> Nafallo: no
<lsuactiafner> i wrote a tc script but it doesnt work like it should
<abarbaccia> lsuactiafner, sorry to hear that
<abarbaccia> lol
<ogra> Nafallo, UniverseCandidates
<Nafallo> tseng: thought so. I tried to install tomboy again ;-)
<lsuactiafner> ogra : there are no big leased lines in this country
<Nafallo> ogra: RFP, Request For Packaging :-)
<ogra> ah, damned, then this solution isnt the easiest :)
<ogra> Nafallo, UniverseCandidates ;)
<tseng> koke rocks!!!!!!
<ogra> Nafallo, thats our RFP page
<Nafallo> hehe, oki
<tseng>    * don't warn on -0ubuntu1 versions (thanks to koke for the patch)
<ogra> tseng, wrt dput ?
<tseng>      (closes ubuntu #10878)
<ogra> :)
<tseng> yes.
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> FreeDoko ;-)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-17
<dholbach> good night everybody - sleep tight
* Nafallo night alla
<|QuaD-_> tseng: whatever you did to beagle, it is a huge improvement
<tseng> its still not done
<tseng> it needs a few fixes in other packages
<tseng> but we are getting close.
<abarbaccia> hey all - does cdrecord in breezy support devices besides scsi?
<|QuaD-_> tseng: it is a lot better then the original 0.10 release
<whiprush> indeed, much better
<whiprush> I can run it for days now
<whiprush> it eventually blows up, but it's getting way better
<|QuaD-> tseng: i shouldn't have talked soo soon, crashed my comp
<|QuaD-> lol
<tseng> heh
<tseng> i think its about time for bed
<tseng> thanks for the input
<|QuaD-> tseng: me too
<tseng> later, motus
<ajmitch> hi
<crimsun> morn'
<ivoks> hi all :)
<\sh> moins
<ivoks> anyone interested in e17 packages for ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> I am certain you could get someone on #ubuntu interested
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> these packages are not ready for users yet
<ivoks> this is just testing..
<Burgundavia> those on #ubuntu don't really care if it is total crack, it seems
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> oh ... wonder...i can sell debian sarge boxes :)
<LordKahless> anyone think they could help me? i have some kernel source i'd like to compile into a .deb file
<ajmitch> ah, kernel source you say now..
<LordKahless> not kernel
<LordKahless> but just regular program source
<LordKahless> transcode to be exact
<ajmitch> wasn't transcode already packaged somewhere?
<LordKahless> i can't find an ubuntu package for it, and a package i want in multiverse depends on it
<\sh> ajmitch: marillat
<\sh> LordKahless: transcode can't be shipped in multiverse
<LordKahless> will the marillat reposatories work with ubuntu? i thought they only liked vanilla debian
<\sh> LordKahless: i never used marillat
<LordKahless> well i have the transcode source, is there a way i can make a .deb file from it?
<Amaranth> marillat is for vanilla debian is has been known to break things
<Amaranth> LordKahless: is it deb source or plain transcode source?
<Treenaks> Amaranth: apt-get source + rebuild tends to work
<Amaranth> LordKahless: (does it have a debian dir)
<LordKahless> it doesnt
<LordKahless> plain transcode source
<LordKahless> is there any hope? :)
<Amaranth> um
<\sh> LordKahless: insert the marillat sources inyour apt sources.list
<Amaranth> apt-get source from marillat
<\sh> and apt-get source transcode
<\sh> and rebuild the source package
<\sh> and in the end, u will break something
<LordKahless> :/
<LordKahless> well if i jsut compile the source, (make, make install.. etc..) will it satisfy the dependancies?
<LordKahless> or will i have to force it to install?
<Amaranth> it won't satisfy the dependencies
<Amaranth> because the transcode package didn't get installed
<LordKahless> is there a way i can make a package without breaking something?
<Amaranth> apt-get source transcode is less likely to break something then make install
<LordKahless> i get 404 errors from marillat sources :)
<blueyed> LordKahless: yes, the real server needs to be sync'ed with the storage server..
<blueyed> it's on th enews.
<LordKahless> bah
<LordKahless> so anything else i could do? heh
<LordKahless> there has to be some way to compile it into a deb file
<tseng> yay one step closer
<tseng> to beagle ootb
<Amaranth> yay
<thesaltydog> Hi, I need help in understanding some issue concerning changelog...
<tseng> what about?
<thesaltydog> I need to have 2 changelogs: changelo.Debian.gz and changelog.gz
<thesaltydog> the second one holds all past release changelogs
<thesaltydog> the first one, the new ubuntu version changelogs
<thesaltydog> I have made several tries, even putting dh_installchangelogs -k in ruels,
<thesaltydog> but it doesn't work. Always just one changelog
<thesaltydog> ?
<tseng> (If
<tseng>        files named debian/package.changelog exist, they will be used in preference
<tseng>        to debian/changelog.)
<tseng> what if you make debian/foo.changelog and list both?
<tseng> then call dh_installchangelog
<tseng> im just guessing.
<thesaltydog> are you meaning that in the /debian dir I should put /debian/changelog and /debian/package.changelog?
<tseng> package.changelog lists the names of changelogs you want to install
<tseng> similiar to package.docs or package.install
<thesaltydog> didn't know that
<tseng> im just reading the man page
<thesaltydog> in  debian dir?
<tseng> sure
<tseng> i am guessing
<tseng> package.changelog
<tseng> ChangeLog
<tseng> debian/changelog
<tseng> something like this
<thesaltydog> I have tried ChangeLog, but still doesn't work
<thesaltydog> anyway, maybe the -k option is not useful in dh_installchangelogs
<thesaltydog> I have seen that synaptic has this double changelog for the same reason I need..
<jamessan|work> you should only use the -k option if you need the changelog to keep the same filename as in the source package. otherwise, it'll be named changelog and changelog.Debian
<thesaltydog> ok
<thesaltydog> I'll go and make some tries. Thanks.
<jamessan|work> thesaltydog: does the upstream package have a changelog?
<thesaltydog> I have put a file named ChangeLog in the source directory
<thesaltydog> with no luck..
<jamessan|work> and you have changelog in debian/, right?
<jamessan|work> or package.changelog
<thesaltydog> yes
<thesaltydog>  debian/changelog
<jamessan|work> "dh_installchangelogs ChangeLog" should work
<thesaltydog> make a try right now..
<thesaltydog> GREAT! It worked out!!
<thesaltydog> jamessan, hugs
<thesaltydog> tseng, hugs
<jamessan|work> :)
<thesaltydog> back to coding.. thanks mates!
<thesaltydog> jamessan, I've put the new files in the upstream dir..
<Unfrgiven> hi all
<Unfrgiven> \sh: pong
<Nafallo> hi all!
<tseng> hey
<\sh> Unfrgiven: u read my mail? :)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: yep replied already too
<Unfrgiven> :)
<ivoks> \sh: yes, i updated
<Unfrgiven> im just doing the remaining ones now
<\sh> xorg*-23 is not on the servers right now :(
<ivoks> eh...
<ivoks> :(
<Unfrgiven> \sh: hows things otherwise?
<\sh> I'm a bit stressed because of my normal work...
<\sh> http://stats.blogweb.de/linux/index.html
<\sh> jesus
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ?!?! whats with the link?
<\sh> Unfrgiven: u see the increase of the hits?
<Unfrgiven> \sh: yeah whats the reason?
<\sh> Unfrgiven: the planet ;)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ah cool :)
<\sh> and on articles: kubuntu-asses 410 official hits ;)
<\sh> thats record
<ivoks> see you guys
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ok debdiffs are done... im just doing pbuilder builds to sanity check now
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ace still isnt done as it FTBFS... i havent had the time to write a patch yet
<Unfrgiven> \sh: and gmetadom is still waiting on a ocaml binary
<Unfrgiven> \sh: can we move forward without ace and gmetadom?
<\sh> Unfrgiven: u can upload or should i get the diffs and upload?
<Unfrgiven> \sh: well im not a MOTU yet... so i can't upload :(
<Unfrgiven> i havent created the bugs on bugzilla yet
<Unfrgiven> ill do so now
* Nafallo notes that beagled takes an awful amount of time to kill if you're using beagle-shutdown instead of CTRL+C ;-)
<thesaltydog> any help to upgrade-package procedure?
<\sh> me's gone for a while...
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ok
<Unfrgiven> \sh: im creating bugs and updating the wiki
<Unfrgiven> \sh: is that all?
<thesaltydog> source: native-package-with-dash-version
<thesaltydog> ??
<thesaltydog> This is after a debuild -S -sa
<thesaltydog> any suggestion?
<thesaltydog> any help for a package upgrade procedure?
<ivoks> ?
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: could you help me with a package im transitioning?
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: the debdiff looks sane to me but the pbuilder build is failing.
<ivoks> sure, if I can
<jamessan|work> thesaltydog: make sure the original tarball is in your parent directory following the naming scheme: pacakge_version.orig.tar.gz
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: http://ankur.ath.cx/dev/ode_0.5-3ubuntu1.debdiff
<thesaltydog> jamessan, just one difference.. between package and version should it be a dash (-) or underscore(_)?
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: how does it fail?
<jamessan|work> underscore
<thesaltydog> ok. and then run bebuild -S -sa
<thesaltydog> debuil
<thesaltydog> debuild?
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: cp: cannot create regular file `debian/libode0/usr/lib/libode.so.0': No such file or directory
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: thats coming from debian/rules
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: eh...
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: but i dont see how the contents of that debdiff can possibly change it
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: debdiff didn't change it... that's the problem
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: there is some stuff in debian/rules
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: oh!
<jamessan|work> thesaltydog: sure
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: packager probably harcoded libode0 somewhere in it
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: you should check that file
<thesaltydog> jamessan, there should be something still wrong.. I tell you what I did:
<thesaltydog> jamessan, I was in the need to upgrade to v 1.3.0,
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: ARGH! you're right... thats the problem! OMG thats terrible
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: fix it :)
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: thanks for your help! ill test it with the change now
<ivoks> np
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: i dunno enough to fix it :(
<thesaltydog> jamessan, so I have put the new tarball in bum_1-3-0_0ubuntu1.orig.tar.gz
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: put that rules somewhere, i'll check it
<thesaltydog> jamessan, I have then upgrade the source files in the soruce dir.
<ivoks> svn rulz
<thesaltydog> jamessan, then I have run dch -v 1.3.0-0ubuntu1
<thesaltydog> jamessan, chande changelog
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: http://ankur.ath.cx/dev/rules
<thesaltydog> jamessan, and run debuild -S -sa
<thesaltydog> jamessan, but still getting the "native" warning.
<jamessan|work> thesaltydog: why is the orig tarball named bum_1-3-0_0ubuntu1.orig.tar.gz? that doesn't follow the format pacakge_version.orig.tar.gz
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: cp -a lib/libode*.so.* debian/libode0/usr/lib/
<\sh> ivoks: thats it
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: should be cp -a lib/libode*.so.* debian/libode0c2/usr/lib/
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: yeah i found the offending line and fixed that
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: but i thought you knew a more generic way
<ivoks> lol
<thesaltydog> jamessan, you told me before, to put the underscore bewteen version and release
<ivoks> there is no generic way
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: as in a way to avoid hardcoding the package name :) with an environment var or something
<\sh> Unfrgiven: i will check all your bugentries and upload them tonight
<ivoks> some put libname-$(VERSION)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: thanks a lot.
<\sh> right now, we have a bloody problem with our SI server again
<ivoks> so you have to make it libname-$(VERSION)c2
<ivoks> etc..
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: hmm... ill test that in my own time
<ivoks> so, basicly, there is no generic way
<thesaltydog> jamessan, ok so the oprig should be just bum_1.3.0.orig.tar.gz
<thesaltydog> jamessan, but I tried also this..
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: good idea though :) i am just rushed to wrap this up now and dont wanna experiment with stuff
* ajmitch will try & update wiki/bugzilla in the morning with cxx stuff he's done, for now, sleep time (2am)
<ajmitch> \sh: in other words, don't worry, I am still alive & doing stuff :)
<\sh> ajmitch: g'night :)
<thesaltydog> jamessan, dpkg-buildpackage: source only upload: Debian-native package
<\sh> ajmitch: hahahaha :)
<thesaltydog> jamessan, W: bum source: native-package-with-dash-version
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: good night
<\sh> ajmitch: i think i'll have to check how expensive the flights from .de to .nz are...
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ok im about to head off to bed as well... just waiting for a successful pbuilder build of ode and ill be done for the night... gmetadom and ace remain pending for reasons stated.
<jamessan|work> thesaltydog: I'm not sure, then
<\sh> Unfrgiven: ocaml can be fixed shortly, if daniels modified and fixed the issues in xorg*-23
<ivoks> ;..(
<\sh> Unfrgiven: i will try then this ocaml-findlib
<ivoks> i still can't upload
<mort> !seen daniel_n
<mort> you masters don't even have a bot?
<Unfrgiven> \sh: sure thing, no problem.
<ivoks> maybe trustpath isn't strong enough?
<Unfrgiven> \sh: by the way im feeling a lot more confident with my MOTU work now :)
<thesaltydog> jamessan, fixed... I was putting a dash instead of an underscore between <package> and <version>!! Sorry and thanks!
<\sh> Unfrgiven: me too :)
<jamessan|work> :)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: i'm hoping that i will be accepted as a MOTU at the next TB.
<\sh> Unfrgiven: sure :)
* jamessan|work could host a bot if people wanted it
<Unfrgiven> \sh: :)
<\sh> jamessan|work: no :)
* Unfrgiven agrees with \sh
<\sh> we should compile a list with all motus and their IM addresses
<\sh> I could setup a special vhost for a jabber service :)
<jamessan|work> ok  :)
<Nafallo> \sh: hehe
<\sh> ubuntu.sourcecode.de ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: try to get motu.ubuntu.com or something ;-)
<\sh> or I can order a new domain: ubuntu-motu.org ,->
<\sh> Nafallo: nice idea
<\sh> i will raise it :)
<Nafallo> :-)
<\sh> jabber.ubuntu.com is also nice :) and a new marketing gag :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ok i've updated the wiki and uploaded the debdiffs to bugzilla.
* ivoks needs sponsor for uploading to universe
<Unfrgiven> \sh: on that note, ill head off to sleep... if theres anything wrong could you email me? ill check in the morning and address any problems ASAP.
<\sh> Unfrgiven: nice :) i grab them all tonight and upload them...updating bugzillla, when some errors occured or i put positive message inside
<\sh> Unfrgiven: ok..will do
<Unfrgiven> \sh: :D
<Unfrgiven> good night all
<ivoks> \sh: could I ask you one favour?
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: night
<\sh> ivoks: should i upload your stuff as well? ,-)
<\sh> or wifi-radar?
<ivoks> wifi-radar only :)
<ivoks> everything else is allready uploaded
<ivoks> but... opencv is *wrong*
<ivoks> what happend...
<\sh> ivoks: i'll do my reviewing time also this evenin..kdebluetooth, wifi-radar etc.
<thesaltydog> anyone can have a look at BUM package upstream?
<ivoks> sid had opencv newer then it has it now
<\sh> ivoks: sync it
<ivoks> they reverted old version
<ivoks> but...
<thesaltydog> it is in MOTUNewPackages
<ivoks> newer version is allready in ubuntu archives
<ivoks> so... opencv should be kicked out
<ivoks> and one more thing...
<ivoks> \sh: could you check trustpath from my PGP to yours and vice versa and tell me is it ok?
<\sh> ivoks: id?
<ivoks> 1024D/D3BDA225
<\sh> ivoks: is it on the keyservers?
<\sh> ah have it
<ivoks> yes
<\sh> ivoks: http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?FROM=0xC098EFA8&TO=0xD3BDA225&PATHS=trust+paths
<Burgundavia> how do I check a trust path?
<ivoks> it looks good to me
<\sh> for me too
<Burgundavia> nev mind
<ivoks> IE6 has tabs :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: mozilla hade it earlier ;-)
<ivoks> Nafallo: didn't know that :)
<ivoks> but the point is that they didn't tell anyone ie6 will have tabs
<Nafallo> s/e// ;-)
<ivoks> they said ie7 will have
<Nafallo> ivoks: they might use gecko? ;-)
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> no
<ivoks> gecko has nothing to do with tabs
<Nafallo> I was more on the "they stole this, they might have stolen that" approach ;-)
<ivoks> i know
<\sh> ok...going home...cu later
<Nafallo> \sh: laters
<Nafallo> baah
<ivoks> bye
<Nafallo> can't the damn rain stop for a minute. I need to buy food and a cd-rw :-P.
<Nafallo> you just gotta love lidl ;-)
<Nafallo> they got everything a geek needs :-)
<Nafallo> including laptops ;-)
<ivoks> http://process-of-elimination.net/?q=kde_3_5_observations
<ivoks> kde3.5 takes some gnome stuff :)
<ivoks> like "add applets" dialog :)
<ivoks> time to go home..
<ivoks> .see u
<Amaranth> i wonder how much KDE users would hate me if i made smeg depend on python2.4-gnome2
<Nafallo> Amaranth: KDE users should use smek or something ;-)
<Amaranth> Nafallo: smeg doesn't stand for anything anymore ;)
<Amaranth> it just describes what the menu spec makes me do
<Amaranth> Sweak.
<Amaranth> err, Swear
<Nafallo> Amaranth: baah. I will always know what it stands for. it's hardcoded in my brain now :-).
<Amaranth> Nafallo: the acronym was just a way of saying i didn't name it smeg because i thought it sounded cool :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<Burgundavia> Amaranth, smeg is gtk, no?
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: yeah
<Burgundavia> then why are you worrying about kde users?
<Amaranth> because GTK works on KDE?
<Amaranth> i have KDE users
<Amaranth> smeg is a _LOT_ better than kmenuedit
<Burgundavia> ah
<Amaranth> i have XFCE users too, i guess
<Burgundavia> more if Xubuntu gets off the ground
<Amaranth> so depending on GNOMEy things is probably a bad idea
<tseng> hi
<Nafallo> hi tseng :-)
<ivoks> X are here :) YAY!
<bddebian> Heya
<ivoks> hi
* ivoks needs help :(
<jamessan|work> with?
<ivoks> with opensceenegraph
<ivoks> scenegraph
<ivoks> cxx transition
<Mez> question: if I backport libc6 to the breezy version will it cause any problems in normal hoary apps?
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> first of all dependecy problems
<Mez> why will it cause dependency problems?
<Mez> if something depends on glibc - doesnt it usuallty dpeend on a certain version or higher?
<ivoks> i'm sure there are packages that depend on = hoary version of libc
<ivoks> Mez: d/w breezy libc6 and try to install it
<DanielN> hi folks :)
<ivoks> hi DanielN
<Mez> d/w
<Mez> ?
<ivoks> download
<ivoks> d/l
<Mez> :P
<ivoks> or whatever :)
<Mez> I'm trying to backport it :D
<ivoks> what's to backport?
<ivoks> that's essential lib
<Mez> yeah
<ivoks> depends only on libdb1-compat
<Mez> gnupg... requires a higher version of libc6 than is inb ubuntu
<ivoks> gnupg?
<Mez> so I'm going to need to backport THAT first :D
<Mez> yes gnupg
<Mez> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/utils/gnupg
<Mez> http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/utils/gnupg
<Mez> look at the libc6 version deps
<DanielN> tseng: ping
<ivoks> you didn't understand me..
<ivoks> why do you want to backport gnupg?
<Mez> because the version in hoary is tragically out of date
<ivoks> and new version has...?
<ivoks> what new? :)
<ivoks> so, you are telling me that you can't compile gnupg 1.4 with libc that's in breezy?
<ivoks> pardon, hoary
<ivoks> i mean... breezy has 2.3.4 libc, and hoary 2.3.2
<ivoks> this is not so big diff..
<Mez> hoary has 2.3.2
<Mez> breezy 2.3.5
<ivoks> .4
<ivoks> ok, maybe .5 :)
<Mez> gnupg in breezy depends on >=.4
<ivoks> Mez: of course it does
<Mez> .2 < .4
<ivoks> but gnupg doesn't depend on 2.3.2
<ivoks> listen
<ivoks> if you are backporting some package
<ivoks> idea is to compile it with libs that are allready in hoary
<ivoks> so, you have to change version of libc on which gnupg is depending
<ivoks> and other librariers
<Mez> feck
<Mez> sorry
<Mez> I'm being an idioty
<ivoks> you have to make gnupg depend on libs only in hoary
<ivoks> :)
<Mez> yeah
<Mez> and of course it's going to fecking work
<ivoks> :)
<Mez> because it depends on 2.3.2 in debian
* Mez slaps himself
<Mez> http://packages.debian.org/stable/utils/gnupg
<ivoks> i'm sure it will work with any 2.3
<ivoks> if not any 2.x
<Mez> I'm half awake
<Mez> though I'm going to bp from deb stable :D
<Mez> cause it's higher than breezy
<ivoks> time to eat something...
<ivoks> see you
<tseng> DanielN: yes?
<tseng> Mez: dude what is the deal with the mono backport?
<DanielN> tseng: would it be enough, to have the gpg signed by a friend, who has signed his key by a debian devel?
<Mez> tseng - I've no idea :D I just do backports every now and then
<tseng> well i seem to recall at the meeting that there would be no more mono backports, or libraries or interpreters in general
<tseng> oh well.
<Amaranth> DanielN: Yes.
<tseng> DanielN: hm yeah
<DanielN> great :)
<Amaranth> tseng: they 'backported' azureus too
<tseng> Amaranth: yeah, i use the word backport loosely now
<Amaranth> if things not in breezy would be put in hoary-extras it'd make things easier
<Amaranth> i could just say "don't use that" and not tell people to completely ignore backports
<tseng> i dont see a reason to seperate the distinction if they arent going to follow the basic rules
<tseng> ill ask why it is still there when he pops up next
<Mez> It'll be gone I think when they move to the properly "official" status
<Mez> but at the moment.. he's just carrying on as normal (I think)
<tseng> ok.
<mez> so what do MOTU's do for packages that are in debian, but not in universe...
<tseng> we ask elmo nicely to sync it
<tseng> or wait
<mez> lol fair enough
<mez> and you package other things ?
<mez> and become the "maintainer" for that package?
<tseng> erm the goal of the MOTU is not just to introduce as many new packages as we can find
<tseng> a bigger responsibility is to help the 100s we already have build and run on ubuntu
<mez> as in ubuntu-specific packages?
<Burgundavia> mez, with the removal of the "run application" from upstream, all applications that should need a .desktop file, if you are interested
<mez> so basically patch them up and fix them to work with ubuntu
<mfgalizi> Hello, I would like to get a package added.  I was told I should be coming here
<mez> Burgundavia,   huh ?
<Lathiat> Burgundavia: as in gnomes run application was removed?
<Burgundavia> mez, the .desktop file tells gnome/kde where to place the application in the menu
<Burgundavia> Lathiat, yes
<Lathiat> Burgundavia: oh, interesting
<mez> Burgundavia, am I allowed to use smeg :P
* Burgundavia was not aware that smeg now added .desktop files to source pacakges
<mgalvin> mfgalizi, what would you like added?
<mez> Burgundavia, I thought ti created them ?
<mez> *shrugs*
* mez hasnt used smeg
<Burgundavia> mez, it creates them for the current user
<Burgundavia> it doesn't change the source package it install them by default
<mez> yes, and then once those are created, you manually copy that file into the source package :d
<Burgundavia> well, you need to tell the source package where to install it
<Burgundavia> that is part where my tiny brain falls down
<mfgalizi> mgalvin: libxvmcw.  are you familiar with it?
<mgalvin> mfgalizi, no, what is it for?
<mfgalizi> Its a wrapper library for XvMC (and the vld extensions).  Instead of having to link agains a particular inplementation of xvmc, you just link against it.
<herve> hellas!
<mgalvin> hi herve
<mfgalizi> So, for example, adding this would allow you to release xine with the xxmc plugin.  And then myth packages could link against it too.  its available from unichrome.sf.net
<bddebian> Heya her
<bddebian> herve even..  fscking autocomplete
<mgalvin> mfgalizi, checking it out...
<mfgalizi> mgalvin: thanks.  I have a debian dir already if you would like it.
<Lathiat> mfgalizi: what does that stuff actually do
<Lathiat> (i saw it mentioned on a show earlier)
<mgalvin> mfgalizi, i found it, have you tried just installing it from the sid version of the deb on that sire
<mgalvin> s/sire/site/
<mfgalizi> mgalvin, where is the sid version?  I dont see it
<mfgalizi> Lathiat, xvmc is an x extension supporting video accelleration.  XVideo Motion Compensation.
<mfgalizi> Lathiat, beyond that, I really dont know (other than that my EPIA board uses it)
<mgalvin> http://www.physik.fu-berlin.de/~glaweh/debian/
<Lathiat> 'video accelleration' ?
<Lathiat> from the name i would glen 'I can move my totem aroudn the desktop without seeing the overlay'
<mgalvin> add the repository on that page to your /etc/apt/sources.list
<mfgalizi> oh, yeah, those work, but they are a release behind
<mfgalizi> I'm not sure those packages are maintained anymore (they've been static for months, as far as i know anyways)
<mgalvin> oh ok, so you want to get an updated release, have you tried contacting its debian maintainer and asking if he could update his package?
<mfgalizi> nope.  I just figured it would make sense in the distribution.
<mfgalizi> enough programs can use it: xine, ok, just xine thats already in the standard distribution
<mgalvin> ok, and you want to see this in breezy or hoary?
<mfgalizi> well, if hoary implies breezy, then hoary
<mgalvin> i only ask b/c new updates will not be in hoary, the updates will only get into breezy
<mgalvin> i could take a look at updating them
<mgalvin> er ,it
<mfgalizi> Pardon, I dont follow
<mfgalizi> you mean adding the package?
<mgalvin> sorry, yes, I could take a look at updating the package if you'd like
<mgalvin> to the latest version
<tseng> man where are the germans
<mez> hmm
<mez> Question:
<mez> For Breezy...
<mez> why is gnupg 1.4.0
<tseng> as opposed to?
<tseng> (its 1.4.1, anyway)
<mez> the latest stable version 1.4.1
<mez> ah lists as 1.4.0 on packages.ubuntu.com
<tseng> that page isnt live, obviously
<mez> hmm
<mez> Who's Martin Pitt?
<Lathiat> pitti
<mez> makes sense
<mez> hmm
<mez> does anyone mind if I update konversation for breezy?
<mez> to 0.18
<mez> as like... one of my packages to start or soemthing
<mez> wait
<tseng> updating a package doesnt really tell us anything about your skills
<mez> fair enough
<tseng> unless you updated mono or something
<mez> so what does tell you about my skills?
<tseng> it tells me you can run uupdate -u
<mez> lol
<mez> what can i do to show you my skilz? (or lack of)
<tseng> skills doesnt have a z in it
<tseng> you can make new packages, or fix real bugs or something
<tseng> i could tell my mom how to download a tarball and run uupdate
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> hehe uupdate
<ivoks> ok i give up on openscenegraph
<ivoks> that should do someone with more experience and knowledge
<mez> lol fair enough tseng
<mez> and i know skills doesnt have a z in it
<mez> I'm taking the p**s
<tseng> the what?
<tseng> there are alot of international people, its alot easier to read what you are saying with out the slang
<ivoks> :>
<ivoks> what kind of a package is this?
<ivoks> when you untar it, you get debian and gziped source
<mez> taking the p**s
<mez> as in, joking about.
<mez> debian/rules reverse-config
<mez> make[1] : Entering directory `/home/mez/backports-arena/konversation/konversation-0.18'
<mez> make[1] : *** No rule to make target `reverse-config'.  Stop.
<mez> make: *** [clean]  Error 2
<mez> what does that mean ?
<mez> I've never come across that before
<tseng> that means debian/rules calls make reverse-config
<tseng> and there is no such rule
<mez> must be something new in .27
<mez> of cdbs
<mez> Build Depends are only needed for building right, not for the user?
<jbailey> mez: If you have a testcase for somethign that broke, please tell me.
<mez> nah jbailey - I'm just trying to make a deb for konversation 0.18 in hoary
<jbailey> mez: It seems Robert was a bit careless about adding to the testsuite, and I'd like to add some testcases to catch things that have broken.
<mez> and I've no idea what you're saying :D
<\sh> mez: is riddell not working on konversation?
<\sh> re btw
<mez> no idea :P
<mez> I'm not working on it for motu
<mez> just for myself
<mez> I'm just like, teaching myself packaging stuff
<mez> but, 0.18 depends on cdbs .27-3
<mez> hoary = .26
<mez> so I think thats what's wrong
<\sh> well
<\sh> breezy awaits you and your learning skills :)
<mez> ?
<mez> what do you mean by that
<\sh> hoary is out
<\sh> ok..uploading stuff for Unfrgiven
<mez> ah
<mez> I'm making backports to devlop my skill
<mez> s
<tseng> backports dont require that much skill
<tseng> its apt-get source; cd; dpkg-buildpackage most of the time
<mez> yeah I know
<mez> this one I'm building the package from source thgouh
<mez> well
<mez> upgrading the current 0.17 to 0.18 then trying to build for hoary
<mez> but it depends on a version of cdbs...
<mez> which I'm assuming is causing the problem
<mez> s
<\sh> mez: then u have to "backport" cdbs as well
<mez> yeah thats what I was thinking
<\sh> or downgrade the package to hoaries cdbs
<mez> \sh - I have no idea how to do that
<mez> I could just build from scratch
<\sh> if you build from scratch you're not backporting.
<mez> true
<mez> so whats the best way to get around this crap then?
<mez> any hints?
<mez> other than backporting cdbs
<mez> and causing problems
<\sh> try to build it with the packages which r there
* mez tries backporting from debian
<\sh> thats backporting..not to break the distri
<mez> yeah I know \sh :d
<mez> ffs
<mez> I'm going to have to go even further back and backport from the one that's in hoary
<mez> as in uupdate
<\sh> argl...anacron
<\sh> i hate this thing
<mez> lol
* mez hopes bp'ing this way works
<\sh> i need coffee
<mez> lol
<bddebian> I need cocaine or something.. :-)
<mez> feck
<mez> I forgot to change the changelog :P
<Amaranth> awake 24 hours and counting
<Amaranth> whee
<mez> well done
<mez> <-- still hyper from last nights gig
<\sh> ok..that for unfrgiven
<\sh> one issue, rest was ok
<\sh> re bradb
<bradb> hi \sh
<herve> see you later
<Mez> where's the pbuild howto?
<\sh> http://www.ubuntu.com/wiki/PbuilderHowto
<Mez> god.... konversation was a pain in the ass to backport
<Mez> but I DID IT
<Mez> E: Could not open file /var/lib/apt/lists/gb.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_hoary_main_source_Sources - open (2 No such file or directory)
<Mez> wtf?
<Mez> nvm
<Mez> forgot to update
<Mez> is there any way... rather than using dpkg-buildpacakge
<Mez> that you just like...
<Mez> make the .dsc etc etc
<Mez> ?
<Mez> so you can use pbuild to build it
<\sh> yes
<\sh> debuild -S
<\sh> without source
<\sh> debuild -S -sa <-- with source
<Mez> so if you've got the orgi.tgz, extracted, and the diff ... then you say do a uupdate -u
<Mez> and then do a debuild -S -sa
<Mez> in the new dir
<Mez> and then just do a pbuild bla.dsb
<Mez> wait
<Mez> why is pbuilder creating the base system again?
<Mez> nvm
<Mez> I rang wrong command
<\sh> because it's creating a chroot env. and put it in a tar.gz
<Mez> yeah
<Mez> and i was trying to build something
<Mez> adn cocked up and hit the wrong thing in the history
<Mez> thanks for the help \sh
<Mez> worked like a beaut
<tseng> ogra: do you know where koke is
<ogra> spain i guess...
<\sh> ogra@ip?
<\sh> what's that
<\sh> where r u mister ogra :)
<ogra> amsterdam.... stranded on my way to bergen
<\sh> oh my
<Mez> :P
<Mez> lol
<\sh> ogra: but good for u :) buy some kilos of "hanf" ;)
<ogra> \sh, no fun...
<\sh> ogra: what r u doing in bergen anyways?
<Seveas> ogra, amsterdam is good :)
* Seveas works there
<ogra> Seveas, so you know the ibis hotel near shiphol ? do you really think its worth a travel ?
<ogra> :/
<ogra> especially since i'm supposed to be in bergen/norway since 4pm today....
<Seveas> hmm, ibis hotel...
<ogra> KLM sucks....
<Seveas> ogra, hmm that sucks indeed
<Mez> hmm
<Mez> I'm getting sorta used to how to build stuff and stuff
<Mez> I just wish I could code so i cna fix bugs
<Mez> which means I'm not gonna get to be a MOTU am i?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-18
<Seveas> Mez, motu do not have to be coders
<Seveas> they have to be packagers
<Amaranth> being a coder helps though
<Amaranth> but it's not required if you know how to make a package
<lesliev> Wow, this channel is busy for this time of night...
<\sh> ok..going to bed now :)
<\sh> cu gentlemen :)
<lesliev> cu!
<lesliev> I am a packaging newbie. I am reading the Debian Maintainers guide.
<lesliev> The atmosphere was thick in the channel
<lesliev> We hung around with baited breaths
<lesliev> Each member eyeing the others, too nervous to speak
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ping?
<Unfrgiven> hey all
<Unfrgiven> how do i apply a debdiff?
<lesliev> Sorry, I don't know. I'm coming back at a more reasonable time.
<lesliev> Seeya later y'all!
<Mez> ah
<Unfrgiven> \sh: i've updated libflash. its ready to upload
<Mez> glad i dont need to be a coder
<Mez> you know when you run dh_make
<Mez> where does it get the details from
<Mez> so
<Mez> is anyone here bored and fancy walking me through my first new package
<Unfrgiven> Mez: i can help you
<Unfrgiven> Mez: what would you like to do?
<Mez> I was just wondeirng if someone would walk me through the process of making a package
<Amaranth> debian new maintainer's guide
<Amaranth> it walks you through the process
<Mez> yeah I know it does :D
<Mez> but ...
<Mez> I want someone to "babysit me"
<Riddell> Mez, \sh: I havn't looked at konversation 0.18, if someone wants to do that it would be great
<Mez> Riddell, I've built a package for 0.18
<Mez> well for hoary
<Mez> it shouldnt be too bad for breezy (I just need a chrooot for it
<Nafallo> tseng: mono is no good for me
<Nafallo> tseng: I installed f-spot and started importing my ~. guess what 99.9% of the pictures are?
<Nafallo> tseng: PORN!!! *sigh* ;-)
<Nafallo> 15700 pics for the record :-P
<|QuaD-> thats a lot
<Nafallo> hmm, my swap get's used. first time since I installed
<Nafallo> *sigh* were ARE all those pictures? I didn't know I had them...
<Nafallo> s/we/whe/
<tseng> Nafallo: hm
<tseng> Nafallo: we should have a weekly ubuntu porn day
<Nafallo> tseng: I win ;-)
<tseng> oh man
<tseng> that drive was the WORST
<Nafallo> tseng: btw, 2GB memory is used :-P
<tseng> im so sore
<tseng> Nafallo: so stop indexing so much pr0n
<Nafallo> not my fault.
<tseng> thats what they all say
<Nafallo> I want it to finish so that I can see where it found it :-P
<Nafallo> I haven't seen those before ;-)
<Mez> anyone here wanna test my package? (t need ssponsoring too)
<|QuaD-> he ran out of memory :)
<Mez> lol
<Nafallo> my laptop frooze ;-)
<|QuaD-> Nafallo: i figured
<Mez> out of memore?
<Nafallo> indeed ;-)
<|QuaD-> hehe
<Nafallo> 1GB + 1GB isn't enough it seems ;-)
<|QuaD-> is that 1gb ram, 1gb swap?
<Nafallo> yes :-)
<Mez> 1gb + 2gb :P
<Nafallo> hehe
<|QuaD-> lol
<Mez> double size of RAM
<Mez> :P
<ajmitch> Nafallo: I had the same, except I watched & killed beagle before it killed my box
<Nafallo> ajmitch: f-spot indexing pictures ;-)
<ajmitch> ah..
<ajmitch> I haven't tried that yet
<Amaranth> so f-spot is a leaky bitch?
<Nafallo> ajmitch: I had 15700 ;-)
<Nafallo> Amaranth: naah. I got to much porn :-P
<Amaranth> the people showing off f-spot always have like 40000 pictures
<Nafallo> ooh. diffrent kind of porn now :-)
<Nafallo> pictures from ubuntu conferences :-)
<Amaranth> you went to udu?
<Nafallo> nope, just curled pictures from others :-)
<Nafallo> tseng: is it supposed to die when it's done indexing? ;-)
<tseng> no?
<tseng> its supposed to sit like a good beagle and wait
<Nafallo> tseng: it just did. and I haven't got anything left to index :-P
<Nafallo> so I can't reproduce :-P
<mez> oh for feck sake
<jay> Currently in breezy beep-media-player uses the default theme that comes with it.  There exists a theme (http://www2.potsdam.edu/sprang31/HumanSkin.tar.gz) that goes along with Human that looks really nice and would blend in with the desktop well.  How do I go about getting this in?
<ivoks> 'morning
<mitsuhiko> hi
<mitsuhiko> can someone explain me why ubuntu uses esd as sound server?
<mitsuhiko> hi ivoks
<mitsuhiko> can you explain me why ubuntu uses esd as sound server?
<ivoks> mitsuhiko: gnome uses esd, not ubuntu
<mitsuhiko> hm. i see
<ivoks> you can disable esd and choose ALSA in gstreamer properties
<mitsuhiko> ivoks, or jack
<ivoks> or jack...
<mitsuhiko> esd is buggy and dead
<ivoks> true
<mitsuhiko> and since december alsa was stoppped
<ivoks> lol
<mitsuhiko> sorry. arts
<mitsuhiko> thx for the information
<ivoks> np
<Mez> hmm anyone awake?
<mitsuhiko> me
<Mez> anyone who's actually a MOTU?
<Mez> (sorry if you are)
<mitsuhiko> ivoks
* mitsuhiko is no motu
<thom_> hi, getting some nvidia dependancy problems, is it legit to discuss those ehre?
<Mez> thom_ shouldnt be a problewm - but i dont think anyones awake enough to answer you :P
<thom_> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<thom_>   nvidia-glx: Depends: xlibmesa-glu but it is not going to be installed or
<thom_>                        libglu but it is not installable or
<thom_>                        libglu1
<siretart> hi
<thom_> hi
<thom_> if no-ones awake enough I'll drop by later
<siretart> Mez: the topic says to not complain about X for the next 2 weeks, so your probably out of luck ;)
<Mez> why you telling me that
<Mez> tell thom_
<thom_> yeeah, sorry about that, wasn't sure how strictly not complaing about X was defined
<ivoks> :)
<Mez> anyone willing to check my breezy pacakge? /sponsor it
<thom_> well, see you all in two weeks then!
<siretart> Mez: oh, sorry. I'm not really awake yet :/
<siretart> ah, now I realize, thom_ is not thom :)
<Mez> :P
<ivoks> :>>
<thom_> lol
<ivoks> kick him! :)
<thom_> indeed, not the first time thats happened
<Mez> yeah I was like "why's thom asking"
<Mez> then realised it was thom_
<Mithrandir> thom_: you might want to change your nick to something else to avoid confusion. :-)
<ivoks> yeah
<siretart> please!
<thom_> good plan batman
<siretart> ah, hi Mithrandir
<Mithrandir> hi siretart
<siretart> Mithrandir: say, I read on the debian nx mailing list there is a meeting about packaging nx. did you discuss privately appoint a time for it?
<siretart> err, s/discuss//
<siretart> lol!
<NotThomMay> :) done and done
<Mithrandir> NotThomMay :-)
<Mithrandir> excellent nick. :P
<Mithrandir> siretart: Roberto C Sanchez proposed Monday or Tuesday at 2000 UTC
<NotThomMay> why thankyou
<Mithrandir> siretart: I haven't replied yet, but going to today.
<siretart> ok. great
<siretart> does anybody know If nautilus in hoary is supposed to support webdavs?
<siretart> on sarge, it works, on hoary, I have problems
<mitsuhiko> siretart: In Nautilus?
<mitsuhiko> works fine for me
<siretart> yes, in nautilus
<siretart> <url> could not be found, check spelling and try again
<siretart> hm
<siretart> I'm asked a password, but then I get that error message. strange
<mitsuhiko> siretart. will try. pls wait a moment
<mitsuhiko> siretart: your'e right
<mitsuhiko> same problem
<siretart> hm
<mitsuhiko> should be fixed
<mitsuhiko> in the meanwhile you can try davfs
<siretart> in hoary? hmhm
<siretart> davfs?
<mitsuhiko> yes. should work
<siretart> you mean instead nautilus, right?
<mitsuhiko> dav.sf.net
<mitsuhiko> you can mount dav servers
<siretart> mitsuhiko: well, thats not packaged in hoary, and needs a kernel module.. hmhm..
<mitsuhiko> hm. I've used it on warty and had only to unpack it
<mitsuhiko> DanielN, hi
<ivoks> dav doesn't need kernel moduls
<ivoks> siretart: webdav works in nautilus
<siretart> ivoks: davfs does, according to the website.
<siretart> ivoks: hm. could be a problem of gmx.net then..
<ivoks> davfs?
<ivoks> what do you need that for?
<siretart> ivoks: mitsuhiko suggested using it instead of nautilus
<ivoks> well, coda is allready in kernel
<mitsuhiko> ivoks: I'm getting problems when I try to connect to a secured dav server via nautlius
<ivoks> and neon is in ubuntu
<ivoks> so, there should be no problem compiling this for ubuntu
<siretart> mitsuhiko: did you try gmx?
<mitsuhiko> siretart: yes
<mitsuhiko> hm. I try to connect to my win2003 sharepoint
<mitsuhiko> hm. won't work
<siretart> :(
<mitsuhiko> therefore I must connect from a win2k box
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> are you sure your server is ok?
<ivoks> cause, i never had problems with webdav and nautilus
<mitsuhiko> is a gmx server
<siretart> ivoks: yesterday, exact that server worked with nautilus on sarge
<ivoks> siretart: and sarge has what version of nautilus?
<siretart> ivoks: 2.8.2-2
<ivoks> then ubuntu has newer, i doubt that something is wrong with nautilus
<ivoks> i have dav server and works fine with hoary nautilus
<ivoks> you are both trying on same server?
* siretart only has gmx to test
<ivoks> "If GMX does
<ivoks> not support DAV properly it is their business."
<ivoks> http://mailman.lyra.org/pipermail/sitecopy/2005-February/001563.html
<ivoks> gmx != webdav
<siretart> ivoks: in principle, yes, but can you prove that this is their fault? remember nautlius on sarge and in breezy are fine
<ivoks> siretart: well, lots of people are complaining on same error
<ivoks> so, i would say, yes, it's their fault
<siretart> thats no proof ;)
<ivoks> they don't comply to RFC...
<ivoks> that's a prrof
<ivoks> proof
<siretart> well, being rfc or not, the are providing 1 gig space for free ;)
<ivoks> siretart: that's irrelevant what they do, they aren't real webdav service
<ivoks> and none distribution should change to support some non-standard services
<ivoks> if you are their user, maybe you could conntact them to provide some standard services
<siretart> ivoks: that was a request from the user mailing list.
<siretart> ivoks: see, web.de for example also does not provide a real imap server, for performance reasons. but mostly all imap clients in ubuntu happen to work with web.de
<ivoks> and your point is...?
<ivoks> they made changes that don't crash imap protocol
<siretart> and for this dav thingy, well. nautilus SEEMS to no longer work with gmx. I consider that a regression
<ivoks> gmx made changes that crash HTTP protocol
<siretart> ivoks: oh, thats not excactly right. conforming imap clients DO crash
<ivoks> siretart: and that's a good thing
<ivoks> you can't change app because of one service that uses non-standard protocol
<ivoks> you just can't!
<ivoks> should we change openldap just because MS ActiveDirectory doesn't work with standard LDAP protocol?
<siretart> ivoks: please, lets calm down. in the first place, I want to find out if thats really a regression at all, or just some bogon emitter in my dsl
<ivoks> siretart: i'm calm :)
<ivoks> siretart: that can't be regression
<ivoks> regression is by definition reverting to less perfect state
<siretart> if something doesn't work as excpected anymore, thats a regression :P
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> did you heard anything i said?
<ivoks> gmx doesn't use standard protocol
<siretart> yes, very well
<ivoks> you can't support something that isn't documented
<siretart> you don't know that
<ivoks> i don't know what?
<ivoks> that gmx doesn't use standard protocol?
<ivoks> i know that :)
<ivoks> telnet to it
<ivoks> you will see headers are wrong
<siretart> I don't know how to speek webdav
<ivoks> webdav is plain html
<siretart> I don't think so. ;)
<Treenaks> ivoks: no, webdav is plain HTTP :)
<ivoks> nothing fancy
<ivoks> Treenaks: lol, right :)
<siretart> hehe
<ivoks> siretart: webdav is plain HTTP
<ivoks> siretart: you should know that langugage :)
<Treenaks> ivoks: well, getting stuff is easy, uploading is a bit harder
<ivoks> Treenaks: sure, but we are talking about wrong AUTH here
<ivoks> easy to track
<Treenaks> ivoks: yes, authentication is plain http authentication.. Basic or Digest or something else
* siretart doesn't speek http either
<DanielN`Cxx> checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
<DanielN`Cxx> what means that=
<ivoks> siretart: then listen to people that do, gmx speeks HTTP just as badly as you do :)
<ivoks> DanielN`Cxx: you don't have gcc instalated or libc-dev
<DanielN`Cxx> lol'
<siretart> DanielN`Cxx: install 'build-essential'
<DanielN`Cxx> have that installed :/
<DanielN`Cxx> mhm
<DanielN`Cxx> mhm
<DanielN`Cxx> that's crazy here...
<DanielN`Cxx> i update debian/control... then i debuild the package, and debian/control is gonna set back to the original state :/
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i hate that .in too :)
<DanielN`Cxx> yeo
<DanielN`Cxx> ,,,
<ivoks> i'll be back
<ivoks> Treenaks: what is good way to build packages from CVS?
<ivoks> Treenaks: run autoconf and then tar/gzip dir and do package from that .tar.gz?
<Treenaks> ivoks: I don't know
<ivoks> ok :)
<Treenaks> oh wait
<Treenaks> from cvs
<Treenaks> yes
<Treenaks> cvs export
<Treenaks> then autogen or autoconf or whatever
<Treenaks> (doesn't it have a "make dist" target?)
<ivoks> heh, didn't check
<ivoks> yes, it has
<ivoks> siretart: just to check...
<ivoks> siretart: you are trying to connect to https://dfs.gmx.net?
<ivoks> siretart: not to dfs.gmx.net/somedir/?
<ivoks> cause...
<ivoks> The URL "https://dfs.gmx.net/" is not DAV enabled
<ivoks> neither is http://dfs.gmx.net
<ivoks> they are using some kind of proxy... lots of things can be missconfigured... apache, proxy, webdav modul...
<ivoks> bottom line: bad, bad webdav service :)
<zyga> helo
<zyga> hello ;-)
<zyga> scummvm package has a desktop file but it is not copied to /usr/share/applications
<siretart> zyga: thanks for noticing. could you prepare a fixed package? ;)
<zyga> siretart: I'll try to make a patch
<zyga> siretart: will you commit it ;]  ?
<siretart> zyga: I will happily apply it, or sonsor your package :)
<zyga> siretart: I'm not good at making packages yet and have no time to learn today, a patch will do :)
<siretart> zyga: ah, no problem, was a bit joking :)
<siretart> zyga: will look into it when I find time. a patch making it easier for me would help ;)
<zyga> siretart: scummv has no i18n at all so the patch will be crude (I also added polish translation)
<siretart> zyga: great! :)
<zyga> siretart: hmm, strange - How do I make sure that given file is removed? I patched debian/rules and debian/scummvm.dirs
<ivoks> hi
<siretart> hi ivoks
<ivoks> how do i download sources from sid?
<ivoks> if i have sid's deb-src in my sources.list?
<siretart> zyga: have to download build dependencies
<siretart> ivoks: try apt-get source -tunstable foo
<siretart> just a guess
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> i tried -t unstable
<zyga> siretart: ? I have build depentencies but how does that help?
<siretart> zyga: will look into it when my download finished
<zyga> siretart: I have a patch ready
<zyga> siretart: I'll test it - maybe it just works
<ivoks> siretart: nope, that's not it :)
<siretart> zyga: send it to me :)
<zyga> siretart: mail?
<siretart> zyga: siretart@tauware.de
<zyga> siretart: away
<siretart> zyga: excellent job! you rock!
<siretart> did you test that patch? it looks sane, though
<zyga> siretart: I tried
<zyga> siretart: I built the source but I was unable to build the .deb
<siretart> ok
<zyga> they use some strange makefile/configure combination
<dopey> is there any way for a debian maintainer to know/find out/be told about it when somebody from ubuntu-motu pulls their package into universe ?
<zyga> siretart: BTW, about ubuntu policy, does this patch ever make into hoary?
<siretart> zyga: no. I will upload it to breezy. only really serious bugs are fixed in hoary
<zyga> siretart: for example, today I've sent full i18n patch for contact-lookup-applet
<zyga> siretart: and, since it's a translation *for* hoary, hoary users would only benefit from it
<zyga> siretart: I doubt that it's up to date for breezy or head for that matter
<siretart> zyga: well, that you would have to discuss in #ubuntu-devel, but I don't think that translation updates are allowed for hoary either
<zyga> siretart: strange
<zyga> siretart: that package had no polish translation at all
<zyga> siretart: what's bad about uploading that?
<siretart> zyga: uploads to hoary are restriced for stability reasons.
<zyga> siretart: how does a translation break stability?
<zyga> siretart: I understand the general stuff but this is not program modification
<siretart> zyga: as said, you would have to discuss it in #ubuntu with the release managers for hoary. I would also see no problems with translation updates in hoary-updates, but I havn't seen any yet
<zyga> siretart: I see
<zyga> siretart: I'll try - it does not hurt
<siretart> zyga: I see scummvm is c++ too. we are in the cxx transistion, so I cannot upload your patch right now :(
<zyga> siretart: :/
<siretart> other than that, scummvm does not build with g++-4.0 either. But I will look into it when the library transition is done
<zyga> siretart: I guess each package should have -docs -i18n -data and -binary
<siretart> zyga: yes, but that are binary packages. we dont patch binary packages but source packages. and scummvm is excactly 1 source package, which FTBFS
<zyga> FTBFS?
<siretart> fails to build from source
<zyga> siretart: I see
<siretart> sorry, that acronym is quite common here ;)
<zyga> siretart: I'll check why it fails to build with gcc 4 :-)
<siretart> that would be great
<herve> hello from herveland!
<zyga> siretart: strange, they explicitly list all 'correct' compiler versions
<siretart> huhu herve
<zyga> siretart: 0.6.1b builds with gcc-4.0, with lots of warning, but it builds
<siretart> zyga: and 0.7.1 not anymore? that's an awfull regression then :(
<zyga> siretart: I'm checking
<\sh> moins
<zyga> siretart: I did have to patch the configure file to allow it though
<siretart> hi \sh
<Mez> mnorning \sh
<\sh> moins mez
* Mez yawns and stuff and goes and pokes gaim a bit
<Mez> hehe
<Mez> I bult it for breezy
<Mez> but i bet it never gets used
<\sh> what?
<\sh> ajmitch: ping
<Mez> I built gaim for breezy
<Mez> but i doub thte package will ever actually get used in breezy (well it's an update to t1.3.1 from 1.3.0 but meh
<herve> bye all, have a nice weekend
<\sh> u too herve
<\sh> Mez: it's main
<Mez> ah yes
<Mez> I know
<Mez> it needs to be sponsired by a dev not a MOTU
<Mez> thats why i dont think it'll make it :D
<Mez> lol
<Mez> isnt konv main aswell
<\sh> yes
* Mez can never remember how to check
<\sh> apt-cache showpkg
<Mez> Dependencies:
<Mez> Versions:
<Mez> 0.18-1~5.04ubp1(/var/lib/dpkg/status)
<Mez> 0.16-1ubuntu1(/var/lib/apt/lists/Kubuntu%205.04%20%5fHoary%20Hedgehog%5f%20-%20Release%20i386%20(20050407)_dists_hoary_main_binary-i386_Packages)(/var/lib/apt/lists/gb.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_hoary_main_binary-i386_Packages)
<Mez> lmaO
<tseng> $ apt-cache showpkg konversation | grep main > /dev/null && echo main || echo universe
<Seveas> apt-cache show konversation | grep Filename | cut -f 2 -d /
<Seveas> works on multiverse/restricted too ;)
<tseng> Seveas++
<Mez> lol
<Mez> hmm
<Mez> how do i go about suggesting a package for universe?
<tseng> you make it and put a link to the sources on MOTUNewPackages
<Mez> well
<Mez> It's already been made by the developers
<Mez> I'm on about adding skype to it
<\sh> Mez: skype will never make it into universe
<Mez> y?
<siretart> no
<Mez> y wont it ?
<\sh> cause of it's license
<siretart> the licence does not allow redistribution
<Mez> it does
<Mez> http://support.skype.com/index.php?_a=knowledgebase&_j=questiondetails&_i=200&nav=+%26gt%3B+%3Ca+href%3D%27index.php%3F_a%3Dknowledgebase%26_j%3Dsubcat%26_i%3D11%27%3ESkype+for+Linux%3C%2Fa%3E
<Mez> http://www.skype.com/company/legal/promote/distributionterms.html
<siretart> Mez: Article 2. License and Restrictions
<Mez> I dont see where it stops you distributing it
<siretart> 2.2 No Granting of Rights to Third Parties. You will not sell, assign, rent, lease, distribute, export, import, act as an intermediary or provider, or otherwise grant rights to third parties with regard to the Skype Software or any part thereof.
<tseng> Mez: we will be distributing a client called Schtoom
<tseng> not some silly proprietary lockin-ware
<\sh> shtoom
<Mez> how is it granting rights?
<tseng> it says "you will not distribute"
<tseng> you dont have rights to someone elses copyrighted IP if they dont give it to you
<Mez> tseng
<tseng> much less if its explicitly stated otherwise
<tseng> Mez
<Mez> http://www.skype.com/company/legal/promote/distributionterms.html
<tseng> you are wrong, sorry
<Mez> so why does it give you terms to redistribute the damn thing
<siretart> Mez: 1.2 You acknowledge and agree that You are not permitted to distribute the Skype Software for any commercial gain, including but not limited to any selling of related services or attempt to charge for the Skype Software.
<siretart> Mez: ubuntu may be sold comercially, so we are NOT non-commercial
<Mez> siretart, er.
<Mez> you're not using that as the selling point though
<Mez> you're selling ubuntu
<Mez> not selling ubuntu with skype
<\sh> Mez: well, I think the lawyers at canonical made their job, and the decision not to include skype has it's reasons...when one company can't agree with the license of another company, u don't distribute it
<Mez> ah fair enough
<siretart> Mez: none of us has the motivation to explain that to a lawyer
<\sh> Mez: there is no ubuntu selling
<tseng> siretart: actually, its a little more than that
<Mez> I didnt know that there had been discussion already
<tseng> this program is closed source
<tseng> afaik
<siretart> tseng: I know, I just needed a quick example ;)
<tseng> and almost certainly not DSFG free
<\sh> it's the same right now between OpenSSL and Squid
<\sh> squid is compiled without ssl support cause the apache license and gpl are incompatible
<Mez> ah shame
<\sh> it's legal business and we aren't studied lawyers
<thom_> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<thom_>   sun-j2re1.5: Depends: sun-j2re1.5debian but it is not installable
<Mez> lol
<Mez> that sounds fun
<thom_> woops
<thom_> ignore that
<Nafallo> tseng: will the beagle ff-plugin be able to quit when firefox quit in the future? :-)
<Nafallo> tseng: or rather when you leave that page it's indexing :-)
<siretart> thom_: where did you find that ancient version of java-package? it's really too old
<thom_> i know
<thom_> i didnt mean to paste that in
<thom_> I was just looking at an old repository
* \sh is gone...need to do some shopping
<zyga>  /www/c
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> wrong window
<ivoks> mmmm... nice
<DanielN> mort: don't forget my key :)
<DanielN> ivoks: you said something about the *.in files which changes the files in /debian, could you say anything more about that? :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> sometimes rules script runs autoconf
<ivoks> at that point, if you have any .in files in debian, they will overwrite you non-.in files
<DanielN> ah
<DanielN> thx
<ivoks> before overwriting, it will substitute some variables in those .in files with rela figuer
<ivoks> figures
<ivoks> for example... you can have in changelog.in something like $program ($VERSION-1)
<ivoks> and it would become foo (bar-1)
<ivoks> in changelog
<ivoks> doh :(
<ivoks> time to reboot in windows :((
<ivoks> bye all!
<DanielN> thanks ivoks
<DanielN> you rescued me :)
<ivoks> np
<ivoks> DanielN: man autoconf
<DanielN> and good bye :)
<ivoks> i just wish elmo and mako will not forget about me :)
<tseng> hi
<mort> DanielN: nah, I didn't forget you... --refresh-keys
<DanielN> mort: thanks very well
<DanielN> and another 4 libs fixed in cxx trans :)
<Burgundavia> something that is an open licence but is DFSG-non-free, that can go into multiverse, no?
<crimsun> as long as it builds in sbuild, more than likely yes
<Burgundavia> this is a pure data thing
<crimsun> is a data package associated with source?
<crimsun> is it^
<tseng>          plugins="AudioscrobblerPlugin.dll muine-tray-playing.png TrayIcon.dll.config \
<tseng>                  muine-tray-paused.png TrayIcon.dll TrayIcon.xml"
<tseng> whats wrong with the above?
<tseng>          for i in ${plugins}; do cp plugins/${i} debian/muine/usr/lib/muine/plugins/; done
<Burgundavia> what I am looking to get packaged is the ldraw stuff, which is under the OpenContent license
<tseng> oh its not Make
<tseng> better wrap it in bash -c ""
<tseng> might work better
<tseng> gah what in the fuck is this thing doing
<tseng> make drops $* ?
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> Mez: ping
<Mez> hey ivoks
<Mez> sup
<ivoks> Mez: you are doing backports?
<Mez> I make backports yes
<Mez> whats up
<ivoks> acroread: Depends: libgcc1 (>= 1:4.0.0-7) but 1:4.0-0pre6ubuntu7 is to be installed
<ivoks> looks like those guys need help
<ivoks> they just copied files :)
<Mez> you trying to sintall acroread from backports? it's in staging :D
<Amaranth> they aren't very bright
<Mez> they're still working on it
<ivoks> what's there to work? :)
<Mez> *shrugs*
<Amaranth> they're pulling in all the things the ubuntuguide's add-on CD had
<Amaranth> and pulling in marillat
<Mez> is it in sid?
<Amaranth> both of which will get them supersued
<ivoks> Mez: are those guys enywhere here on irc?
<Amaranth> jdong is sometimes
<Amaranth> he didn't register his nick though, so i dunno when he was last on
<Mez> I dont even know where they've puled it from to be fair
<ivoks> from marillat
<ivoks> didn't even repackage it :)
<ivoks> just, cp :)
<Mez> link to the files in the pool?
<ivoks> hm, i should really help them
<Mez> lol
* Mez istying to find some soret of thing he can rbackport from
<ivoks> don't
<ivoks> help them fix a mess
<Mez> well i want it too
* Mez starts backporting
<Mez> this is gonna be massive!
<Mez> lol
<Mez> and only builds for i386
<Mez> whee
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> Mez: join backports team
* Mez waits for breezy version to download
<ivoks> and work with them
<Mez> ivoks, I would but they wont let me
* Mez preferes backporting to repackaging new stuff
<Mez> It's easier
<Mez> and you deont get findutils breaking stuff
<Mez> man thats asy to backport
<ivoks>  if it wasnt for backports, I wouldnt have stayed with ubuntu
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> Mez: you said that?
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> well... time to play with blender...
<Mez> yeah i woulda gone to gentoo :D
<Mez> but - they kept me in
<Mez> now i know how to make my own backports, i dont relally bother with the other one
<Lathiat> the backports generally suck and break shit :)
<Lathiat> like mono,for example
<Lathiat> i just run straight hoary
<Lathiat> it works
* Lathiat shrugs
<Mez> lol
<Mez> mono = shite
<Mez> but to be fair...
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> mono is THE SHIT
<Mez> all my abckports have wporked
<Mez> I take breezy stuff,
* Lathiat love mono
<Mez> and recompile
<Lathiat> Mez: the problem is
<Lathiat> its ok for somepackages
<Lathiat> but you take something like mono
<Lathiat> or some cxxshit
<Lathiat> that has hadmajor structural changes
<Lathiat> you cant just expect thatto work without any love
<Lathiat> which is what some of theofficialstuff has one
<Mez> :P
<ivoks> hm, we really need hunderts of people with unbootable ubuntu cause of CXX package
<Mez> hmm
<Mez> er
<Mez> I finshed backporting acroread
<Lathiat> bleh acroread
<Lathiat> evince > *
<Mez> wanna try it ivoks?
<ivoks> Mez: did you change dep libs?
<Mez> no it worked
<Mez> just needed a recompile and it works
<ivoks> then it will not work on hoary
<Mez> well it built on hoary
<ivoks> you allready have lots of backported packages
<Mez> mez@apathy:~/backports$ sudo dpkg -i acroread_7.0-0.9~5.04ubp1_i386.deb
<Mez> Selecting previously deselected package acroread.
<Mez> (Reading database ... 92048 files and directories currently installed.)
<Mez> Unpacking acroread (from acroread_7.0-0.9~5.04ubp1_i386.deb) ...
<Mez> Setting up acroread (7.0-0.9~5.04ubp1) ...
<Mez> mez@apathy:~/backports$
<ivoks> Mez: apt-cache show libgcc1 | grep Version
<Mez> it was built in a pdebuild
<ivoks> you really don't understand, don't you?
<Mez> Version: 1:4.0.0-7ubuntu6~5.04ubp1
<Mez> Version: 1:4.0-0pre6ubuntu7
<ivoks> lol you see
<ivoks> you have 1:4.0.0-7
<Mez> ?
<ivoks> that's not in hoary
<ivoks> so, your acroread will not work in hoary
<ivoks> period.
<Mez> ivoks...
<Mez> llemme try something
<ivoks> Mez: backporting isn't take a packge, input your name, and package it
<ivoks> backporting means you have to make that app depend on libs that are in distro you are backporting for
<ivoks> you can make acroread depending on libcc1 1:4.0.0-7
<ivoks> when there is no such package in hoary
<ivoks> you have it, cause you backported it too
<ivoks> and that is The Bad Thing
<ivoks> you should never backport libs, only apps
<Mez> who says it depends on it
<ivoks> I say
<Mez> it shoudnt depend on it cause it was built in a chroot
<ivoks> and your debian/control says so
<ivoks> in chroot where you allready installed backported lib
<Mez> nope
<Mez> the chroot = no backports
<ivoks> Mez: run  apt-cache show libgcc1 | grep Version in your chroot
<Mez> root@apathy:/# apt-cache show libgcc1 | grep Version
<Mez> Version: 1:4.0-0pre6ubuntu7
<Mez> root@apathy:/#
<Mez> :P
<ivoks> then you changed dep versions in debian/control?
<Mez> no
<Mez> it auto build sthe deps remember
<ivoks> then ok
* Mez coughs a little
* Mez waits for an apology
<ivoks> just don't backport libs
<ivoks> as you allready did
<Mez> I didnt backport a lib
<ivoks> < Mez> Version: 1:4.0.0-7ubuntu6~5.04ubp1
<Mez> I DIDNT BACKPORT IT
<Mez> it's in ubuntu backports
<Mez> but I DIDNT BACKPORT IT
<ivoks> ok then
<Mez> hehe it's just there :
<ivoks> then you should do their work
<Mez> my backport works in hoary
<ivoks> off i go...
<ivoks> later
<Mez> lol
<tseng> Amaranth: do you use autotools?
<Amaranth> tseng: no
<tseng> i think i found what i needed
<tseng> anyway.
<tseng> make distcheck
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-19
<tseng> who was complaining about the muine tray icon
<tseng> Amaranth?
<Amaranth> hi
<tseng> was that you?
<Amaranth> yeah
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> i fixed it :D
<tseng> and
<tseng> added the inotify plugin
<Amaranth> yay!
<tseng> double yay
<Amaranth> yay!
<tseng> man
<tseng> i cant wait for dbus now
<Amaranth> you're awesome
<tseng> *G*
<tseng> the next upload will be so hardcore
<DanielN> hm.. i know it's late already, but i have a question about understanding the cxx trans process
<whiprush> hey tseng. How are you going to package muine plugins?
<whiprush> independently or as one package?
<tseng> whiprush: inotify has to be part of muine for now
* whiprush nods
<tseng> whiprush: and its probably going to be merged upstream like that
<whiprush> I hope so.
<tseng> the other ones will be their own package
<tseng> like muine-ipod
<whiprush> k
<tseng> and audioscrobbler
<tseng> i love that one too
<whiprush> dude, ruffle is so <3
<tseng> dude
<tseng> ruffle needs a fucking patch, right?
<whiprush> no, just .8.3
<whiprush> the one not in hoary.
<tseng> oh yeah?
<whiprush> yeah
<whiprush> all it needs is the newest muine
<tseng> hm ill try it now
<tseng> we'll need a meta package
<tseng> tsengs-sweet-muine-love
<whiprush> when your queue runs out it'll plop in 10 more songs according to the weights you give it.
<tseng> to install them all.
<whiprush> the audioscrobbler weight generates your playlist based on your audioscrobbler profile.
<whiprush> it's ninja
<tseng> oh no shit
<whiprush> yeah
<tseng> <3 audioscrobbler
<whiprush> and you can slide a slider "more randomness" or "more songs that I like alot".
<tseng> hm that was too easy
<tseng> i tried this thing a few months ago
<tseng> and it was hard
<whiprush> yeah it sucked until recently
<tseng> so um
<tseng> oh i need to import
<whiprush> yeah
<whiprush> takes a bit
<whiprush> but worth it
<tseng> does it know wheni skip things
<whiprush> yeah
<tseng> k.
<tseng> man
<tseng> i can be a bigger muine elitist bastard than ever before
<whiprush> heh
<tseng> this is brillaint.
<Amaranth> tseng: nice
<whiprush> yeah it's awesome.
<whiprush> take that amarok!
<Amaranth> is audioscrobbler built into this package?
<whiprush> it's built into amarok.
<whiprush> muine has a plugin
<tseng> Amaranth: no
<tseng> but i am thinking of packaging the following sweetness:
<Amaranth> eek, it made two tray icons
<tseng> ascrobbler, ruffle, muine-burn, muine-ipod
<Amaranth> oh, because i have my own plugin installed too
<tseng> eh?
<tseng> oh
<whiprush> a muine-plugins metapackage would be nice too
<tseng> i said that
<whiprush> oh
<Amaranth> doesn't muine-ipod need libfaad?
<tseng> hrm no?
<tseng> if you want aac i guess
<whiprush> I think it just talks to gstreamer
<Amaranth> oh, just gstreamer-faad (and libfaad through that)
<tseng> i tried to package muine-aac
<tseng> but it didnt come out working
<Amaranth> muine-aac? that's crack
<tseng> and i cant split it up either
<Amaranth> i've got aac files, they work fine
<Amaranth> because gstreamer supports them
<tseng> in muine?
<tseng> no
<tseng> it cant read the metadata
<Amaranth> err
<Amaranth> it doesn't use gstreamer for that?
<tseng> no
<tseng> not yet
<tseng> gst# has no release
<tseng> bbiab
<Amaranth> oh, i guess it doesn't read them
<Amaranth> i don't listen to them much
<Amaranth> btw, sonance in cvs has it's won gst-sharp.dll
<Amaranth> err, own
<tseng> Amaranth: hm
<tseng> Amaranth: yeah the probably rolled in the source since its too unstable to depend on cvs
<Amaranth> yeah, so if he ever releases 0.4 it could be packaged :)
<tseng> Amaranth: thats pretty shitty.
<tseng> meebey wants to package it
<Amaranth> if he dropped the goofy images sonance would look nice
<Amaranth> http://sonance.aaronbock.net/screenshots/0.4-teaser/sonance-0.4-teaser.png
<tseng> it would look like rythmbox with less sucking
<Amaranth> the music notes and the msn messenger people, i mean
<Amaranth> hey, rhythmbox 0.9 before the end of this month
<tseng> im not sure why I care
<tseng> besides playbin
<tseng> which isnt in yet
<Amaranth> audio cd burning and tag editing
<tseng> yawn
<tseng> (muine has plugins for both)
<Amaranth> not in ubuntu it doesn't :)
<tseng> dude
<tseng> they couldnt get any easier to install
<Amaranth> i know, it's just fun poking you :D
<Amaranth> no offense
<tseng> yeah thats fine
<tseng> im easy to troll
* Amaranth too
<tseng> did you try out the inotify love?
<Amaranth> i don't know how
<tseng> oh
<Amaranth> drop a new file in ~/Music and it automatically shows up?
<Amaranth> take one out and it goes away?
<tseng> just dump new music into your watched folder
<tseng> whatever is in the muine gconf key
<tseng> as watched_folders
<tseng> its totally rad
<Amaranth> taking things out doesn't work
<tseng> hm
<tseng> we can make that a feature request
<tseng> adding is way cooler
<Amaranth> i have nothing to add
<tseng> :(
<Amaranth> Error loading plug-in InotifyPlugin.dll: /home/travis/Desktop/drivel-2.0.0/~/Music
<Amaranth> whoops
<Amaranth> oh, it's a bug in the gconf key
<tseng> hm
<Amaranth> wow, it worked
<tseng> yeah I hate the Status window in Sonance
<Amaranth> i just had to remove ~/Music from my watched dirs (i already had /home/travis/Music/)
<tseng> it has like 30 widgets all showing progress
<tseng> a spinner, a progress bar, a text widget
<Amaranth> this is so cool
<tseng> and you can hide some of them to make the tiny window smaller
<tseng> yeah it is.. do you have Ruffle?
<Amaranth> nope
<Amaranth> gimme a dll? :)
<tseng> dude its easy
<tseng> get the tarball of the muine plugins page
<tseng> make; make install
<tseng> then go to ruffle - prefs - synchronize
<tseng> and you can start building cool random playlists
<Amaranth> um, i can't find a tarball for the plugins
<tseng> http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/users/mrm21/ruffle/ruffle-0.3.0b2.tar.gz
<Amaranth> oh, you meant for just ruffle
<Amaranth> i was looking for a tarball of all of them :)
<tseng> no.
<Amaranth> yay, it stopped halfway through reading tag info
<tseng> yay
<Amaranth> probably on the same file easytag and tagtool segfault on
<tseng> sounds right
<tseng> they all use the same libraries
<Amaranth> yep
<Amaranth> Unhandled Exception: System.Exception: Don't know how to deal with this version.in <0x0005f> Muine.Ruffle.ID3v2:ReadFrameLength () in <0x00081> Muine.Ruffle.ID3v2:ReadHeader () in <0x00113> Muine.Ruffle.ID3v2:Read () in <0x00035> Muine.Ruffle.MP3Reader:Read () in <0x00020> Muine.Ruffle.TagReader:Read () in <0x00374> Muine.Ruffle.RuffleWindow:LoadFileInfo () in (wrapper delegate-invoke) System.MulticastDelegate:invoke_void ()
<Amaranth> way to catch those exceptions ruffle!
<Amaranth> fixed that..
<HostingGeek> clustered resource group manager
<HostingGeek> yeah yeah yeah we miss a description!
<HostingGeek> Nice one
<chillywilly> wow, they fianlly released sarge...I didn't even notice that
<chillywilly> only took 3 years
<chillywilly> ;P
<HostingGeek> chillywilly: your old
<HostingGeek> it happened when it was meant to happen
<HostingGeek> on the 6th
<HostingGeek> with one last min dalay
<Amaranth> HostingGeek: you'll love these screenshots i have
<Amaranth> HostingGeek: http://dev.realistanew.com/compare.png http://dev.realistanew.com/compare2.png
<Amaranth> smeg and gmenu-simple-editor/smeg and gnome-menu-editor
<HostingGeek> FAKE!
<HostingGeek> Photoshoped!
<HostingGeek> :P
<HostingGeek> Gimped!
* HostingGeek has never used photoshop
<HostingGeek> Amaranth: why does everything come late?
<HostingGeek> When we needed menu editors we had none
<chillywilly> in 3 years time Ubuntu will have 6 releases...
<Amaranth> sure we did
<HostingGeek> When we get a menu editor we get 4
<Amaranth> smeg 0.1 was out about a month after 2.10 was released
<HostingGeek> Amaranth: yea xfce's
<Amaranth> it's really coming into it's prime now though
<HostingGeek> AFTER
<Amaranth> HostingGeek: I didn't know what was going on with the menus in 2.9, otherwise I would have started sooner. :)
<HostingGeek> " Welcome to Amaranth Networks, Inc. Amaranth Networks was founded in 1998. Our company provides software and network consulting services to small and mid-sized businesses."
<HostingGeek> 0.o
<Amaranth> not me
<Amaranth> I'd write "Welcome to Amaranth Networks, Inc. Founded in 1998, our company provides software and network consulting services to small and mid-sized businesses."
<Amaranth> because i, like, know english and stuff
<HostingGeek>  small and mid-sized businesses."
<HostingGeek> <Amaranth> because i, like, know english and stuff
<HostingGeek> OOOOOOOOOOOps
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> i copied their typo
<Amaranth> and the other line was supposed to be funny
<Amaranth> are things just not getting updated lately or are the buildds stuck on trying to compile java and mono things?
<aiw> hi
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> this is a place where universe is made
<aiw> i would be glad to help, in whatever limited way my meager skills allow
<ivoks> you are good for start
<aiw> i read about 'masters of the universe' on the slashdot interview with mark shuttleworth
<ivoks> better then me when i started
<aiw> :-) i am sure you are too kind
<ivoks> trust me :)
<ivoks> aiw: you just have to read couple of things
<aiw> well, the build finished, now i have a bunch of .debs!
<aiw> sure, i like to read
<ivoks> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<ivoks> http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTU
<aiw> ok, i will work on those, what's next?
<ivoks> get familliar with packaging
<ivoks> and hang out here
<ivoks> you will learn a lot
<ivoks> then you can apply for member, and eventually for MOTU
<aiw> cool, how long have you been working on ubuntu?
<ivoks> a month :)
<aiw> well, you have moved right along then
<aiw> well, imap now works again!, but squirrelmail is broken
<ivoks> squirrelmail?
<ivoks> squirrelmail works great with imap
<ivoks> i have couple of installations
<aiw> i have been using it for years, and love it, it was working until i id the sarge upgrade this evening
<ivoks> aiw: you have to reconfigure it
<ivoks> to use IMAP
<aiw> ivoks: it has always been configured to use imap,
<ivoks> i have this: Maildir | pop3/imap | mail apps (squirellmail, mutt, evolution)
<aiw> i run qmail, vpopmail for vitrual domains, and squirrelmail/courier-imap
<ivoks> i like postfix :)
<aiw> ivoks: this server has a few dozen domains on it
<ivoks> aiw there is some squirelmail-configure tools
<aiw> qmail has been wonderful, but it isn't supported at al under debian, so i am considering changing to something supported by debian
<ivoks> debian is pushing exim...
<ivoks> i prefere postfix
<ivoks> well... time to go...
<whiprush> aiw: you want postfix dude.
<aiw> ivoks: thanks for all your help, i learned alot
<ivoks> np
<whiprush> if you look in /etc/squirrelmail there's a configure perl script.
<whiprush> run that, fill in the stuff, and sqmail should work great
<aiw> whiprush: is there a way to migrate all my mail accounts from vpopmail to whatever does virtual domains under postfix?
<whiprush> hard question.
<whiprush> how do you store your mail on your server?
<whiprush> maildirs, mbox?
<ivoks> maildir rulz :)
<aiw> maildirs
<aiw> it's a qmail installation
<ivoks> maildir is qmail invention :)
<aiw> qmail has been rock solid for something like 7 years now, migrated through several servers, redhat, suse, debian
<aiw> that dan berstein must be one smart guy
<whiprush> all you should need to do is tell postfix to deliver to those maildirs.
<ivoks> yeah
<ivoks> and, change login.defs
<ivoks> and pam.d/login
<ivoks> and pam.d/su
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> ssh too
<whiprush> on my system it's home_mailbox = ~/Maildir in /etc/postix/main.cf
<aiw> how will i get all the domains/accounts/passwords into postfix? I have been using vpopmail for virtual mail domains
<aiw> there are no local accounts, everyone is virtual
<whiprush> you'd have to recreate those for postfix.
<whiprush> I've never used virtual users though
<whiprush> so I have no idea.
<aiw> yikes, there are hundreds, or thousands
<whiprush> I have the postfix book, but it's at work so I can't look that up for you at the moment
<schweeb> there's documentation on it
<schweeb> at postfix's site
<aiw> i will take alook
<aiw> the config to make qmail work under debian is torturous
<\sh> mornin
<tseng> great flame bait on osnews today
<tseng> "time to get smart"
<ivoks> hi MOTUs
<tseng> hi.
<ivoks> anything new on brave packageing frontier? :)
<tseng> yes, the next muine upload will rock
<ivoks> rock on! :)
<tseng> inotify++
<ivoks> what about rhythmbox?
<tseng> who cares
<ivoks> :))
<tseng> no, i just tried to build it from cvs
<tseng> i cant
<ivoks> opencv is giving me kopfsmerz
<ivoks> there was version 0.9.6 in sid
<ivoks> i packaged it for ubuntu, it's FTBS
<ivoks> and now there is 0.9.5 in sid
<ivoks> i guess they have same problems :)
<tseng> headache?
<ivoks> yeah, headache
<tseng> ive never heard "smerz"
<DanielN> schmertz :)
<ivoks> i couldn't remeber spelling in english
<ivoks> lol, german spelling was bad either :)
<DanielN> ;)
<ivoks> kopfschmertz
<DanielN> argh
<DanielN> sorry
<DanielN> kopschmerz
<DanielN> without t
<ivoks> oh, ok
<DanielN> :)
<ivoks> ja, ja... :)
<DanielN> ah, ivoks: when needs still a third reviewer ;>
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> ok...
<DanielN> hihi
<DanielN> hurry up, ivoks :P
<ivoks> take it easy...
<ivoks> i have one package there that was before you, and it still isn't reviewed :(
<ivoks> HTTP request sent, awaiting response...
<ivoks> lol, big package :)
<ivoks> This package was debianized by Daniel Neuenschwander - that's a lie :)
<DanielN> ivoks: lol, cool down.. i wouldn't stress you up ;)
<DanielN> ivoks: huh?
<ivoks> debian-stuff/ is from upstream
<ivoks> it has everything in it :)
<DanielN> yeah
<DanielN> i know that
<ivoks> install --mode=755 temp /tmp/when-1.0.23/debian/when/usr/bin/when
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> ah... ok :)
<DanielN> :)
<ivoks> looks ok
<DanielN> cool
<ivoks> ok, it get's my approval
<DanielN> woho.. thanks
<DanielN> :>
<ivoks> i can't upload it
<ivoks> but, hey, you'll get my vote
<DanielN> ivoks: ah, right you're not MOTU yet
<DanielN> :)
<ivoks> i am, but... doh...
<ivoks> still don't have upload account
<DanielN> ;(
<DanielN> hehe
<ivoks> there, are you happy now? :)
<tseng> wth cant i make new folders in gconf-editor
<ivoks> doh... time to go...
<ivoks> see you!
<tseng> so should i name muine plugins packages like
<tseng> muine-ipod, or muine-plugins-ipod
<DanielN> i've got a question about the cxx transition
<ogra> muine-ipod-support ?
<DanielN> is the debdiff all i have to provide?
<ogra> yes, attach it to the bug...
<DanielN> yeah, i'm doing it like that. but is that all? no source package in anyway?
<ogra> the debdiff is enough
<DanielN> cool :)
<DanielN> arghl, the session handling of the ubuntulinux.org wiki is silly :/
<abarbaccia> hahah - i love the topic - every time i come back to see how people are doing theres something new to NOT complain about for 2 weeks
<DanielN> \sh: ping :)
<tseng> oh man that looks awful
<tseng> selecting multiple albums in a row in muine with new clearlooks gradient stuff
<|QuaD-_> whats clearlooks?
<tseng> the default gtk theme in ubuntu?
<|QuaD-_> oh, lol
<\sh> re
<DanielN> \sh: ping
<\sh> DanielN: pong
<\sh> anybodies coming to the "World Youth Day 2005 in Cologne"?
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> right...is anybody coming ;)
<\sh> DanielN: hrdb5?
<siretart> hi folks!
<siretart> mfgalizi: which package?
<mfgalizi> siretart: libxvmcw
<siretart> mfgalizi: I never heard about it. Is it a cxx transition, or just an updated or a NEW package?
<siretart> mfgalizi: where can I look at the source?
<mfgalizi> NEW
<mfgalizi> unichrome.sf.net
<siretart> mfgalizi: please add it to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUNewPackages then
<mfgalizi> k...
<siretart> mfgalizi: isn't there an ITP for debian ongoing for this lib?
<mfgalizi> I didn't see one.
<mfgalizi> I'll check again (that would be fantastic)
<siretart> ah, now I see it
<siretart> you requested sponsorship for it for debian, right?
<mfgalizi> :)
<mfgalizi> got nothing back though
<siretart> mfgalizi: thats sad. perhaps you should ask in #debian-mentors. If it gets included in debian, we will sync it automatically to ubuntu
<mfgalizi> ok
<mfgalizi> ty
<siretart> mfgalizi: and you really should file an ITP against WNPP
<Burgundavia> siretart, did you get anywhere the the glest package?
<siretart> Burgundavia: sorry
* siretart rather fighting with CXX transistion, has priority atm for me
<Burgundavia> np
<Burgundavia> the cxx transition is more important
<ivoks> hi all
<ivoks> YEAH!
<ivoks> it compiles
<Mithrandir> SHIP IT!
<Mithrandir> :-)
<ivoks> Mithrandir: time to test it on amd64
<ivoks> Mithrandir: lesstif2-dev tk8.4-dev tcl8.4-dev libxaw7-dev (please) :)
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: doesn't that amd64 thingie have pbuilder? :-P
<Mithrandir> ivoks: done.
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: pbuilder is Arch: all
<ivoks> thanks
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: hmm, never mind me. I forgot to think.
<siretart> ivoks: remember our gmx / webdav discussion? I just found this one: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153054
<ivoks> siretart: gmx returns wrong error
<ivoks> siretart: instead of noauth error
<ivoks> siretart: it returns no such dir
<ivoks> that's the problem...
<ivoks> when nautilus revices no such dir, it quits connection
<ivoks> well... in gnome they know that problem
<ivoks> so they will find workaround
<ivoks> Mithrandir: :)
<ivoks> Mithrandir: libraw1394-dev libdc1394-13-dev libgtk2.0-dev
<siretart> w000h000. the new source package format of the dpkg 1.13 branch really ROCKS!
<ivoks> doko: ping
<doko> pong
<ivoks> doko: opencv can be build against ffmpeg
<ivoks> should i do that, or leave package as is
<ivoks> (not compiled with ffmpeg support)
<doko> hmm, Is this necessary?
<ivoks> no
<ivoks> it's an option
<ivoks> i guess it wasn't included
<ivoks> cause ffmpeg wasn't in debian
<doko> are there license issues, i.e. are you allowed to link it?
<ivoks> now it is.
<ivoks> ffmpeg is GPL
<ivoks> acording to /usr/share/doc/ffmpeg/copyright
<siretart> I remember jvw talking about patent issus under consideration for ffmpeg in debian on some list
<siretart> I don't have references, though..
<doko> ivoks: well, do it, put a separate patch int the archive and point Debian to it
<ivoks> doko: ok
<doko> ivoks: or ask jvm first ... ;-)
<ivoks> first, i have to build it with or without ffmpeg on amd64 :)
<ivoks> yuhu! builded
<ivoks> doko: well, there is no patch for ffmpeg support
<ivoks> doko: only change in debian/control (added libavcodec-dev as dependecy)
<doko> ivoks: that is a patch :)
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks> ah, allright...
<Mithrandir> ivoks: done
<ivoks> thanks :)
<ivoks> Mithrandir: and libavcodec-dev :)
<ivoks> Mithrandir: sorry :(
<Mithrandir> ivoks: done
<ivoks> you are so sweet :)
<ivoks> uh...
<ivoks> opencv is finally ok
<ivoks> next target... openscenegraph
<dooglus> package libcurses-perl doesn't contain anything but documentation any more.  is that a bug?
<ivoks> dooglus: does it depend on other packages?
<dooglus> ivoks: Depends: perl
<dooglus> ivoks: libcurses-perl_1.08b-1_i386.deb contained a .so, a .bs and a .pm
<dooglus> ivoks: but libcurses-perl_1.12-1_i386.deb is missing all 3 of those
<dooglus> ivoks: is there somewhere I can see the history of the package, to see if the change was deliberate or accidental?  like a CVS log, or something?
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks>  /usr/share/doc/libcurses-perl/changelog.Debian.gz
<dooglus> I see /usr/share/doc/libcurses-perl/changelog.Debian.gz - but that doesn't tell me much.  the last change was "  * New upstream release"
<ivoks> check tja\\hat
<ivoks> dooglus: contact maintainer
<dooglus> ivoks: contact maintainer, or raise a bug in the bug system?
<dooglus> Maintainer: Jay Bonci <jaybonci@debian.org> -- is that who you mean?  Or would there be a Ubuntu guy?
<ivoks> file a bug report
<ivoks> i'm off to bed
<ivoks> by all
<tseng> hi
<Nafallo> hi tseng :-)
<tseng> whats up
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-12
<ryanakca> kk
<ryanakca> that guide is pretty good :)
<crimsun_> nthdegree_: use the appropriate section as listed in http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
<ryanakca> ok, I get this error http://pastebin.ca/64569 when running debuild -S while following http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
<nthdegree_> is it a gpg error, a psychic guess :p
<ryanakca> lol, I know that...
<ryanakca> just wondering if anybody here had the same problem...
<nthdegree_> ryanakca so sudo apt-get install gnupg gpg-agent
<nthdegree_> i did ryanakca
<ryanakca> "debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting...."
<nthdegree_> i know
<ryanakca> that kinda gives it away, eh?
<ryanakca> lol
<nthdegree_> because you need gpg-agent and to make a gpg key
<ryanakca> E: Couldn't find package gpg-agent
<ryanakca> I allready have a gpg key
<nthdegree_> did you put a comment?
<ryanakca> comment?
<nthdegree_> yeah when you made your gpg key
<ryanakca> no
<nthdegree_> then you should be fine
<ryanakca> I don't think so... that was what... 4 months ago.. I'll check in kgpg
<ryanakca> no comment :)
<nthdegree_> you need the universe repo and gpg-agent also if there us a password on the secret/private key
<nthdegree_> is*
<nthdegree_> here this is what i used to help me through that annoying problem https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto?action=show&redirect=GPGKey
<ryanakca> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper universe multiverse         in /etc/apt/sources.list
<nthdegree_> then you should be able to get gpg-agent through synaptic
<LaserJock> I don't have gpg-agent
<LaserJock> and I don't think I've ever had a problem debsiging
<crimsun_> I don't have gnupg-agent installed, nor have I had a problem debsigning.
<nthdegree_> crimsun well the wiki mentions gpg-agent and that was the only way round it for me
<nthdegree_> plus not having a comment :)
<ryanakca> nthdegree_: no such package... gpg-agent: http://pastebin.ca/64580
<nthdegree_> you need to be root for apt-get
<ryanakca> however, I DO have gnupg
<ryanakca> ... nthdegree.... read it... "aptitude search"
<nthdegree_> same for aptitude
<crimsun_> there is no 'gpg-agent' package.
<ryanakca> and I DO have gnupg-agent
<ryanakca> nthdegree_: you do NOT need to be root for aptitude search OR apt-get search
<ryanakca> I mean apt-cache search
* ryanakca calms down... breath in, breath out, breath in, breath out
<ryanakca> sorry
<nthdegree_> you need to export your key id then maybe
<ryanakca> why would that have anything to do with it? exporting it to a keyserver...
<nthdegree_> not to a keyserver
<ryanakca> its a local problem, not remote
<nthdegree_> e.g. export GPGKEY=D8FC66D2
<ryanakca> done that.
<crimsun_> ryanakca: why don't you just explicitly pass -kE95EDDC9 ?
<\sh> re
<nthdegree_> you resourced the bash rc
<crimsun_> ryanakca: are you even sure 0xE95EDDC9 is the correct one?
<nthdegree_> re-sourced*
<ryanakca> pub   1024D/E95EDDC9 2006-02-22
<ryanakca> uid                  Ryan Kavanagh <ryanakca@gmail.com>
* ryanakca just made the stupid mistake of pasting his e-mail in the channel
<ryanakca> wonderfull
<crimsun_> eh, it's not like you weren't being spammed anyway.
<nthdegree_> would be export GPGKEY=E95EDDC9 in your .bashrc
<ryanakca> I wasn't
* nthdegree_ spams :p
<ryanakca> nthdegree_: its allready there
<crimsun_> ryanakca: you mean you weren't /aware/ of being spammed.
<crimsun_> anyhow
<ryanakca> lol
<ryanakca> well... 2 spam messages in Spam folder/label.. so I'm happy... gmail probably blocks most of the junk
<LaserJock> crimsun_: you run Opera?
<\sh> real cracks have more then one email address ;)
<nthdegree_> *cough* gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use *cough*
<nthdegree_> gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use *coughs*
<crimsun_> LaserJock: I have, yes, but presently epiphany-browser from -updates
<nthdegree_> so the agent may be the problem as it is needed for passwords i think
<LaserJock> crimsun_: did you just install it from the Opera download site? Interestingly I was just moving from epiphany to Opera :-)
<LaserJock> I see they have a Breezy download
<crimsun_> LaserJock: I had Opera 9 beta 2 installed using the Debian Etch/testing version.
<ryanakca> nthdegree_: no... it isn't... gnupg-agent just stores the passphrase for 5 minutes.. or however long you want it to. so that you don't allways have to retype it...
<crimsun_> LaserJock: you'll need the xlibs from Breezy.
<LaserJock> :/
<crimsun_> xlibs is empty/transitional. No harm.
<LaserJock> but for 9b2 the etch version worked on Dapper?
<crimsun_> yes.
<crimsun_> I verified two minutes ago.
<LaserJock> k, good enough for me
<crimsun_> again, you need xlibs from Breezy.
<nthdegree_> ryanakca is your key just a DSA key? no ElGamal or w/e
<LaserJock> epiphany just bugs me sometimes, so I need to have a second brower :-)
<nthdegree_> normally a key is 2048 bits and uses RSA + ElGamal
<LaserJock> I wonder if the Unstable Opera would work better
<crimsun_> LaserJock: arguably the drop-down location bar/menu behaviour in epiphany-browser is A Good Thing.
<LaserJock> very arguable
<LaserJock> I depend a lot on being able to modify a URL that is in the location bar
<crimsun_> well from a usability perspective, if I click on a URI, I want to view it, not edit it.
<nthdegree_> can someone help ryanakca please :) i'm a tard and don't seem to know enough to recify the problem
<crimsun_> ryanakca: uninstall gnupg-agent.
<ryanakca> hmmm... DSA + ElGama subkey
<\sh> what's the problem with gnupg-agent?
<crimsun_> re \sh
<crimsun_> (sorry, got lost in the scrollback)
<nthdegree_> http://pastebin.ca/64569
<nthdegree_> look @ that
<ryanakca> nthdegree_: thanks for effort/help... gnupg article was good
<\sh> aha
<\sh> gpg-agent added to /etc/X11/Xsession.options ?
<LaserJock> crimsun_: I'm used to at least being able to hit the right arrow to be able to edit the URL
<crimsun_> LaserJock: broken historical behaviour imo
<ryanakca> \sh: nope :)
<LaserJock> crimsun_: I'm all ears for a better way
<\sh> ryanakca: try it and restart your xsession
<ryanakca> \sh: what do I add? "gpg-agent"? "use-gpg-agent"?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: "better" depends on your habits, no? I'd say what e-b does /is/ better, not to mention "correct."
<\sh> gpg-agent only
<ryanakca> kk
<LaserJock> crimsun_: so just go to a site I don't want to go to just grab part of the URL? that's very annoying for LP and wiki
<crimsun_> LaserJock: if you subscribe to the "bookmark" paradigm, it makes more sense to just bookmark those urls for which you need "part"
* nthdegree_ brb
<LaserJock> hmm, that seems a little inefficent, but ok
<crimsun_> LaserJock: why, do you find yourself visiting many /new/ URLs based on the same base?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> LP
<LaserJock> sometimes I want to tack on a +bugs
<LaserJock> or want +source/<something>
<crimsun_> that's scriptable
<LaserJock> I can do it really easy by editing places I've already been
<ryanakca> brb, restarting xsession...
<LaserJock> packages.qa.debian.org is another I use a lot, I'm not sure how the bookmark thing would work for that, I'll have to think about it
<LaserJock> I can see what your saying about usability though
<LaserJock> I'm just not sure how to do the things I want without using the "wrong" way
<crimsun_> this seems prime for a (deskbar?) script
<crimsun_> ala +bugs 1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Baltix "Microsoft has a majority market share" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<LaserJock> hehe, that too ;-)
<crimsun_> or +sources 1
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> ok, well maybe I'll give epi another chance ;-)
<crimsun_> use whatever is most efficient
<ajmitch> morning all
<LaserJock> well, I do like epiphany except these couple things, but maybe I just need to do things the "right" way
<\sh> moins ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch and \sh
<\sh> ryanakca: ah welcome back...now install pinentry-gtk or pinentry-kde whatever you like more
<nthdegree_> i made my package :D but where is it?
<crimsun_> in ../
<LaserJock> hmmm, when was the -proposed repo announced?
<crimsun_> or one level above the root of the extracted source
<crimsun_> LaserJock: it wasn't.
<nthdegree_> nope i can't see it
<nthdegree_> but it did make it
<crimsun_> oh, pbuilder?
<nthdegree_> yes
<nthdegree_> pbuilder
<crimsun_> /var/cache/pbuilder/result/  unless you changed it.
<nthdegree_> ty
<ryanakca> \sh: ty, pinentry-qt installed :)
<nthdegree_> now how do I send it off to the universe :)
<nthdegree_> oh 1st of all testing
<nthdegree_> it works
<nthdegree_> sort of, it has all the bugs that are naturally in it but it works :D
<LaserJock> crimsun_: do you know anything about the -proposed repo? can Universe packages be added?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: like a dumping ground for -updates
<ryanakca> \sh: now what?
<\sh> ryanakca: try to debsign your package
<ryanakca> \sh: http://pastebin.ca/64595
<nthdegree_> \sh how do i get my package etc. submitted
<\sh> ryanakca: pastebin your changelog pls
<\sh> nthdegree_: dput
<\sh> nthdegree_: and read on wiki something about how to upload to revu
<ryanakca> \sh: http://pastebin.ca/64599     its just a practice package, btw...
<LaserJock> nthdegree_: wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<rob> hi
<rob> I'm guessing there is quite a backlog on revu?
<gilligan_> hello
<crimsun_> rob: very much.
<ryanakca> \sh: I'm following http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
<rob> cool
<ajmitch> rob: yes there is
<rob> what order are the packages listed in on revu?
<\sh> ryanakca: and use-agent in gpg.conf is disabled?
<gilligan_> I have a question regarding external module compilation. Only info I could find was https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ModuleBuilding -- which does not provide a lot of info -- I hope I won't be kicked out right away sending me off to #ubuntu.. :)
<crimsun_> well, it /is/ a #ubuntu question...
<gilligan_> well it's dev related and i've had no luck so far on #ubuntu when asking for it
<ryanakca> \sh: dunno, sorry, got to go have supper, I'll check later, see you then (hopefully)
<LaserJock> rob: by date and by kind (totally new package or an update/fix) I think
<LaserJock> rob: althought they might have added sorting by number of advocates too
<\sh> gilligan_: as well #ubuntu, because this and -devel is about developing ubuntu and not developing with ubuntu :)
* gilligan_ sighs and tries #ubuntu again
<rob> LaserJock, it felt kind of random
<\sh> gilligan_: but module-assistant is your friend, just in case the module is in universe or main
<nthdegree_> gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.  gpg: the signature could not be verified. < can someone explain
<nthdegree_> this is for dput btw
<\sh> no gpg key, wrong changelog address
<gilligan_> \sh, it certainly isn't. It's some experimental file stacking stuff that I am dealing with for my bachelor diploma
<nthdegree_> I dared not to touch the changelog I got an error everytime i touched it
<gilligan_> \sh, unfortunately things have changed since I last compiled a kernel which was around 2.4.xyz :] 
<\sh> gilligan_: oh then most likely the people from #breakmyubuntu can help ;)
<\sh> if there are any
<gilligan_> lol
<gilligan_> :] 
<crimsun_> gilligan_: (to avoid dragging this out further, can you pastebin the command{,s} you invoked and the error{,s}?
<crimsun_> )
<nthdegree_> \sh,  what do I have to do because I keep breaking my changelog
<LaserJock> rob: it isn't but it feels that way, REVU2 should have a better layout
<\sh> nthdegree_: work with dch and set in .bashrc those variables
<\sh> DEBFULLNAME="Stephan Hermann"
<\sh> DEBEMAIL="sh@sourcecode.de"
<\sh> EDITOR="vim"
<\sh> export DEBFULLNAME DEBEMAIL EDITOR
<rob> I thought Arch Linux's AUR web site (similar idea) has a reasonably good layout
<\sh> adjust debfullname and debemail to your correct values...and check that your used email address is added as uid to your gpg key
<\sh> (forget the $EDITOR)
<gilligan_> crimsun_, http://gilligan.neuecouch.de/bla.txt <-- not much to see there.. but you get the idea of my problem -- I intalled the appropriate kernel source package .. I thought make oldconfig would create the relevant files such as modversions etc
<ajmitch> gilligan_: install the appropriate linux-headers package instead
<nthdegree_> i have Martyn Hare <martyn.hare@tiscali.co.uk> as my GPG bits
<gilligan_> ajmitch, that does not change anything
<ajmitch> it should, since that's where the headers you're looking for are kept :)
<ajmitch> hm, sounds like a fair chunk of NZ lost power during the night
<ajmitch> how interesting
<gilligan_> ajmitch, well I installed linux-headers-2.6.15-23 .. but that does *not* have modversions.h either
<crimsun_> gilligan_: you're missing -arch
<crimsun_> linux-headers-$(uname -r)
<ajmitch> linux-headers-$(uname -r)
<gilligan_> *ouch*
* ajmitch is too slow for crimsun_ 
* crimsun_ blames the trans$ocean latency
<crimsun_> (or perhaps it's sat)
<zul> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> (monday morning)
<ajmitch> hey zul
<zul> how is it going?
<gilligan_> crimsun_, ok..so /that/ solves the whole issue hehe
<crimsun_> (hehe, meaning satellite ;)
<ajmitch> crimsun_: cable, actually
<crimsun_> gilligan_: right, you rarely need kernel-source
<crimsun_> ajmitch: ah
<gilligan_> crimsun_, I was wondering about that yes.. but as I didn't realize about headers-arch I thought 'hm..darn..well maybe I have to get the sources then'
<gilligan_> well thanks for the help despite the fact that I belong in #ubuntu :] 
<gilligan_> i'll shut up now hehe
<gilligan_> still won't work..sigh
<nthdegree_> someone have a look at this http://ubuntu.pastebin.ca/64611 what is up with it?
<crimsun_> #1. incorrect version. #2. incorrect distribution.
<nthdegree_> parsechangelog/debian: error: badly formatted trailer line, at changelog line 5
<nthdegree_> dch: fatal error at line 387:
<crimsun_> and yes, #3. lines 5-6 need to be one unbroken line.
<\sh> nthdegree_: didn't you use dh_make in the first place?
<nthdegree_> i did
<\sh> dch should work then...until you broke the changelog badly like crimsun said
<nthdegree_> \sh what debuild bits do I need?
<crimsun_> #1 and #2 aren't really important to dch, but #3 definitely is.
<nthdegree_> i fixed 3
<nthdegree_> how do you use dch?
<\sh> nthdegree_: 1. man dch :)
<nthdegree_> the changelog is fine
<nthdegree_> it just wont dput :(
<\sh> nthdegree_: dch -i for version increase, dch -D dapper for setting distro to name dapper etc.
<\sh> nthdegree_: what are you trying to dput? .dsc file from a source package?
<nthdegree_> oh you use dput on that :$
<nthdegree_> so you don't do the change file
<\sh> nthdegree_: you dput the changes file ;) yes... but I wonder what's missing at your place
<nthdegree_> i think it is a .asc sor something
<nthdegree_> or*
<ryanakca> \sh: there is the line "use-agent" in ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf
<nthdegree_> #use-agent there is
<nthdegree_> it is commented out
<nthdegree_> but the agent works fine :)
<\sh> ryanakca: and it's commented out?
<nthdegree_> dpkg-parsechangelog: warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (1234)
<nthdegree_> that of any help?
<nthdegree_> qtella_0.6.5-1_amd64.changes  qtella_0.6.5-1.diff.gz  qtella_0.6.5.orig.tar.gz
<nthdegree_> qtella_0.6.5-1_amd64.deb      qtella_0.6.5-1.dsc
<ryanakca> \sh: no
<nthdegree_> that's what I end up with :)
<\sh> ryanakca: comment it out ...put a # in front of the line
<ryanakca> \sh: done
<\sh> nthdegree_: that's just normal pbuilder chroot complain :=
<nthdegree_> gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found. \n gpg: the signature could not be verified.\n Please remember that the signature file (.sig or .asc)
<ryanakca> YAY! it works!
<nthdegree_> ryanakca wait for the dependency hell and config changes 24/7
<\sh> nthdegree_: debuild -S -sa in the debianized source tree and sign the package first and say it will be a orig source included upload
<ryanakca> nthdegree_: ???
<ryanakca> meaning what?
<nthdegree_> ryanakca the pbuild doesn't always get the dependencies needed for the software, i had to do it like 5 times over
<nthdegree_> so \sh in /home/nthdegree/qtella-0.6.5 then?
<\sh> nthdegree_: yes
<nthdegree_> then after that do sudo pbuilder build ../*.dsc?
<\sh> nthdegree_: yes
<nthdegree_> that is what I have been doing :>
<\sh> nthdegree_: or you know that it will build out of the box and you can forget the pbuilder call...just debuild -S -sa (means sign and source upload) and dput changes file
<nthdegree_> it works
* LaserJock is about to tear his hair out (not that he has much left) trying to find a technical drawing app
<LaserJock> dia looks nice, but you can't tell the dimensions of objects, that I can see
<bmonty> LaserJock: if you find one, I'd like to know about it
<nthdegree_> \sh so does the .deb ever get uploaded :|
<\sh> nthdegree_: to revu no..to our buildds n
<\sh> o
<\sh> we just do source uploads
<\sh> no binary uploads like debian has
<nthdegree_> oh lol
<nthdegree_> i found that so heavily confusing
<nthdegree_> so how does it ever end up in the repo as a binary :-S
<\sh> nthdegree_: you upload the source, then a buildd is coming along and picks up the source, and compiles it, and pushes the binaries to the archives
<\sh> nthdegree_: all this magic is in launchpad nowadays
<LaserJock> bmonty: well, I've been using xfig for ages, but it appears that they got rid of most of the decimal places in Imperial (and it is buggy and out of date)
<\sh> nthdegree_: for ubuntu that is, debian is still using DAK ;)
<nthdegree_> hmmmmmmm ok :)
<nthdegree_> my gpg key is fresh so what do I do with it now so it is recognised as a known one?
<\sh> nthdegree_: find a debian maintainer or an ubuntu dev or member and get your key signed
<\sh> go to keysigning parties around your place
<\sh> or host one
<\sh> check http://www.biglumber.com/ for people around your area ready for keysigning
<nthdegree_> i mean for getting my key on the keyserver or does it need signing for that
<\sh> nthdegree_: no..for pushing your key to the keyserver it's just a gpg --send-key <your key id> away
<\sh> nthdegree_: but to go the way of a motu with upload rights, you need to have your key signed by someone in the strongset
<\sh> nthdegree_: where do you come from_
<\sh> ?
<nthdegree_> peterborough, cambridgeshire (England)
<\sh> england...there are some people from debian I think
<\sh> or other devs from the OSS world
<\sh> just check biglumber
<nthdegree_> closest is cambridge, i'll just have to wait till I start work properly :) get a car and go drive down
<\sh> nthdegree_: or if you have time visit the UbuntuDeveloperSummit in Paris...you will be thrilled to meet all the ubuntu cracks
<nthdegree_> i'd be closer to getting to germany and LinuxTag
<nthdegree_> I go every couple of years to germany :D
<\sh> nthdegree_: and sign some keys with them...and you are in the strongset yourself ;)
<\sh> nthdegree_: linuxtag just past ...
<nthdegree_> what is the difference anyway between getting in the strongset and just being mr unsigned? because you can still send off your packages etc.
<\sh> nthdegree_: in november there is linuxworldexpo in cologne...kubuntu.de is preparing a booth there..so just come to us :) I'll be there and amu and some other people known in the debian/ubuntu universe and if you get amu to sign your key..he is top 7
<\sh> nthdegree_: the web of trust...If someone from strongset knows you, others can see, that you are not still a fake
<nthdegree_> that makes sense :) just take my passport and I should be fine with any luck
<\sh> nthdegree_: e.g. I know ogra and ogra knows me, so he signed my key, and I signed his key, now I will meet crimsun, and he checks my id etc. but he still doesn't believe me, that I am...so he can check my signatures, sees that ogra signed my key already, and somehow, ogra signed crimsuns key and vice versa, so he trusts ogra and therefore he can trust me
<LaserJock> I hope to get lots of signatures in Paris
<LaserJock> since I only managed to find 1 person to sign my key
<\sh> LaserJock: get kinnison to prepare a keysigning party :) he did it very well for UBZ
* nthdegree_ hopes to get a job so he can afford to travel to get lots of key signings
<nthdegree_> oh one question before I forget, how do I backup my private and public keys (I reformat a lot)
<\sh> nthdegree_: on a usb stick, use smartcards, cd-r, whatever you use for backing up
<Erlang> I wish UBZ was this year.
<\sh> Erlang: too late ;)
<nthdegree_> yes but what do i copy? and is there any extra commands I may have to run?
<Erlang> I got into Ubuntu 1 year too late.
<Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 1 in openssl "openssl: Expired certificates and recertification" [Normal,Resolved: notwarty]  http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1
<\sh> Erlang: but jbailey is still in montreal...
<\sh> nthdegree_: ~/.gnupg
<crimsun_> as is sfflaw, no?
<\sh> crimsun_: should be
<\sh> and hub is as well in .ca
<nthdegree_> oops :$ I had 5 attempts at making keys so that's gonna be a lot of junk data
<nthdegree_> or can it only store 1 key
<\sh> nthdegree_: clean your mess :) now it's time to start over :) no one ever knows anything about your key right now
<nthdegree_> doh, think i'll have to re upload the qtella afterwards
<nthdegree_> but isn't there a way to export your private or secret key?
<Erlang> there is Simon Law in Montreal too...
<ryanakca> in the Maintainer field, do I put My name, or do I put the name of the guy who wrote the program... nobody has made a package of it yet...
<nthdegree_> your name :)
<\sh> Erlang: sfflaw yes :)
<Erlang> oh
<hub> Erlang: I'm in Ottawa now
<hub> Erlang: actually Hull
<hub> different province, accross the river
<Erlang> cool cool
<Erlang> i'm in Sherbrooke
<hub> used to be in Montreal
<Erlang> I'm in Sherbrooke, and here to stay.
<Kyral> Hehe I met Simon at UBZ
<ryanakca> nthdegree_: kk, ty
<hub> Kyral: did we meet too?
<Kyral> hub: Yah I think so
<hub> Kyral: we didn't sign keys
<Kyral> I was one of the people from Potsdam that wasn't Russ Nelson ;P
<hub> ah yeah
<Kyral> hub: I didn't have mine on me at the time. I had to borrow a laptop and printer to print mine out :P
<hub> we may have actually talked the sunday morning
<hub> Kyral: I have it on my business card
<hub> :-0
<Kyral> I was only there for Ubuntu Love Day
<hub> Kyral: yeah
<\sh> Kyral: I think we met too :)
<hub> that is the only thing that doesn't change on my card
<Kyral> \sh: we did :D
<hub> maybe the email
<\sh> during Ubuntu love day
<hub> \sh: you were all around anyway
<hub> Kyral: coming to DesktopCon or OLS this year?
<\sh> I was sitting on the floor and was compiling python-qt ...
<hub> \sh: I was just trying to make my POS laptop no die
<Kyral> hub: where are those?
<Kyral> I can't come to Paris
<\sh> at least, ubz was quite a good conf...and nice people around...especially hubs surprised gf ;)
<hub> Kyral: OLS = Ottawa Linux Symposium
<hub> Kyral: Dekstop Con is just before
<Kyral> hub: when is that?
<hub> July
<Kyral> oy I don't have a car lol
<hub> http://www.desktopcon.org/2006/
<Erlang> my boss will be there...
<hub> Kyral: train works to go to ottawa
<hub> Kyral: as well as buses
<Kyral> and I'm so close lol I'm in Potsdam for the summer
<Erlang> I can't go, yet.
<hub> Erlang: who do you work for?
<Kyral> Hehe if I go I'll prolly be representing Ubuntu no?
<hub> I'm there, paid by $WORK
<Erlang> hub: Ask me that again in a week.  We have no website yet so I don't feel confortable saying that.
* nthdegree_ has 3 OSes who would I represent :p
<hub> so I can't
<hub> Erlang: LOL
<hub> Erlang: 'cause I know a company in Sherbroole
<hub> s/l/k/
<Erlang> I work for a little startup.
<Kyral> hub: lemme ask the people I went to UBZ with if they would like to go
<hub> Kyral: up to them
<hub> I'll be there anyway
<hub> I'm local
<hub> and I'm talking at DDC
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> hub: I'll see. Depends if work will let me
<Kyral> weel, technically I can work from anywhere with an internet conn...
<Kyral> whoa...$250 to register?
<Kyral> Sorry not this time around :D
<hub> like any conference
<Kyral> Though the presentations sound awesome
<hub> early reg was cheaoer
<Kyral> Yah I saw
<hub> s/o/p/g
* hub need to fix his keyboard
<Kyral> maybe next year hub :D
<Kyral> hmm..I wonder if Russ is going...
<Kyral> anyway next time I'm in Ottawa I'll be sure to look you up Hub
<nthdegree_> what do you put in /etc/fstab to mount reiser4 for ubuntu
<Kyral> reiser4?
<nthdegree_> that didn't work
<Kyral> do you have the tools installed? :P
<nthdegree_> yes
<zul> uh...you have resier4 in your kernel?
<nthdegree_> have no clue
<Kyral> He prolly modprobed it
<Kyral> yo farruinn!
* \sh wouldn't touch reiserfs anymore
<hub> ext3
<\sh> xfs
<\sh> and ext2/3
<Kyral> JFS
<hub> at least it does not chain your disk to a chaine-list
<Kyral> well, /boot is ext3
<Kyral> the rest is JFS :D
<nthdegree_> \sh xfs panicked my kernel
<hub> where losing hte middle lose the rest
<Kyral> Actually I have been playing with NILFS
<\sh> nthdegree_: what  kernel are you running
<nthdegree_> standard ubuntu one
<hub> Kyral: I'm a conservative when it comes to filesystems
<\sh> nthdegree_: can't be...
<Kyral> hub: this is why I am playing with it on my usbkey :P
* nthdegree_ doesn't think i have reiser4 support
<Kyral> nthdegree_: bingo :P
<\sh> nthdegree_: never did here..not even with EIT GPT disk partitions with >6TB partition size
<hub> reiser4 is still NOT in the kernel
<hub> only SuSE ships it
<hub> even RH does not
<Kyral> Jeez I should really register SHCD with FSF and LP
<Kyral> hub: Arch's Beyond does as well
* Kyral finds it amusing that even though he doesn't run Ubuntu, he is still No.1 Local Support for it
<ryanakca> http://pastebin.ca/64639       is the pbuilder error... something wrong with the control file or pbuilder?
<ryanakca> lol
<Kyral> Missing dep?
<ryanakca> yes
<\sh> ryanakca: wrong build-deps in debian/control missing gtk lib or whatever
<Kyral> You just answered your question :P
<Kyral> yah now I remember \sh, you showed me and farruinn how to use multiple pbuilders :D
<ryanakca> kk... just that I don't know which package is needed... is there a way to figure it out... easily?
<crimsun_> if it checks for >= 1.2, it's usually libgtk2.0-dev
<crimsun_> err, libgtk1.2-dev
<crimsun_> if it checks for >= 2.0, it's usually libgtk2.0-dev
<ryanakca> which one...
<\sh> Kyral: did I? I was on crack at this time ;)
<Kyral> lol
<ryanakca> kk... even though 2.0 >= 1.2?
<crimsun_> ryanakca: usually the README/INSTALL will tell you
<Kyral> I think all of you were hunover :P
<Kyral> One of the things that I keep remembering from that day is Jeff Waugh saying multiple times "We do NOT have a drinking problem on this project!"
<\sh> Kyral: sure...we weren't actually sleeping .. at least siretart and I
<Kyral> hehe
<Kyral> I had to wake up at 4 AM that day lol
<ajmitch> ok
<Kyral> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello
<bmonty> grr...I have a 4AM wakeup tomorrow morning :(
<\sh> Kyral: we didn't sleep for more then 27 hours...I have pictures where I went out with ogra and riddell, and I was looking very strange, like on drugs
<Kyral> lol
<\sh> but it was helloween ... so I wasn't alone
<ajmitch> \sh: that was an interesting time...
<\sh> ajmitch: you missed ogra, riddell, koke and I going out for a beer in an irish pub..you know...very strange situation
<ajmitch> \sh: unfortunate that I missed that :)
<ajmitch> though the evening going to hub's place was fun as well
<\sh> http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/v/ubz/20051029/P1000067.JPG.html
<\sh> http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/v/ubz/20051029/P1000069.JPG.html
<ajmitch> you look almost drunk..
<\sh> I wasn't just tired
<\sh> it was the arrival day
<\sh> aeh
<\sh> I was just tired
<ajmitch> long flight will do that to you :)
<ryanakca> I have this in control,      Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, libgtk1.2-dev, libgtk1.2        yet I still get those errors... http://pastebin.ca/64639
<\sh> ryanakca: it needs libgtk2.0-dev
<\sh> http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/v/ubz/20051031/P1000095.JPG.html a very nice picture btw
<crimsun_> ryanakca: libgtk2.0-dev in B-D. You don't need to add to Depends.
<ajmitch> of course there's a laptop there
<\sh> here is no laptop but another nice tool and ajmitch http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/v/ubz/20051104/P1000116.JPG.html
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> & a seb128 in the foreground
<ajmitch> I think dholbach is the one leaning down there
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<bmonty> hey bddebian!
<\sh> ajmitch: and this is when I'm drunk (http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/v/shermannpics/Karlsruhe2006/20060518PaulsAbschied/P1000333.JPG.html)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi ajmitch, bmonty
<bddebian> and \sh
<ryanakca> crimsun_: oh, kk, ty
<ajmitch> \sh: you probably have photos from the train as well
* ajmitch looks
<\sh> ajmitch: http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/v/ubz/20051104/P1000124.JPG.html
<ajmitch> more bad photos :)
<ajmitch> http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/v/ubz/20051104/P1000131.JPG.html
<ajmitch> dholbach looking friendly
<bddebian> heh
<bmonty> I don't see much work getting done in any of those pics :)
<ajmitch> bmonty: of course not
<ajmitch> this is the relaxation afterwards
<brandon_> i have a question about the format of the changelog file required to build a deb. i followed the packaging guide, and yet i'm still getting a "badly formatted" error on the trailer
<ajmitch> put it on pastebin for us to look at
* ajmitch should get a UPS for his box
<brandon_> it's only one line. can i just paste it in here?
<ajmitch> no, a changelog should be more than 1 line :)
<brandon_> the trailer
<ajmitch> just put the relevant section on pastebin, please?
<bddebian> Use dch -i :)
<bmonty> brandon_: if you put the whole thing in the pastebin it is easier for us to help
<brandon_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15582
<bmonty> brandon_: distribution and version are wrong
<brandon_> how do you figure?
<bmonty> change "unstable" to "edgy"
<bmonty> we are using "edgy" for the distribution name, right/
<bmonty> ?
<bmonty> version should be something like <upstream version>-<package version>, in your case it could be 2.1.3-1
<brandon_> i just didn't want it to be called dapper, bnecause there is a dapper in universe or wherever
<ajmitch> the error it's giving is because you need a space before the -- in line 12
<bmonty> your package would be called "amule"...that is another thing that needs to be fixed, BTW
<\sh> brandon_: dch is your friend
<\sh> apt-get install devscripts
* bmonty agrees with \sh
* ajmitch just uses emacs :)
<\sh> devscripts-el ? ;)
<bmonty> emacs....bleh
<Erlang> ajmitch: suprEMACSy!
<brandon_> doesn't that look like a good changelog file though?
<bmonty> brandon_: it looks like a changelog, but has some major issues
<brandon_> uh huh
<brandon_> it would have issues if it was part of the distro and not just on my pc
<\sh> brandon_: debian/changelog should not be used as upstream changelog ;)
<\sh> Fixed "0000867: French traduction is uncorrect grammatically". what does it mean, which bugtracker?
<bmonty> brandon_: if you are asking for help here it generally because you want to eventually have the package in universe
<\sh> brandon_: aMule (2.1.3) unstable; urgency=low is missing a revision , correct version in debian/changelog would be 2.1.3-1
<\sh> (for debian) and 2.1.3-0ubuntu1 for ubuntu
<brandon_> i have contributed 3 packages so far, but the documentation doesn't match what i saw. i can't log in, and i don't see any of the stuff i dput'ed on hte server
<Amaranth> or 2.1.3-0ubuntu1 if it's meant for ubuntu
<brandon_> so it's kind of discouraging. but i promise to contribute amule if nobody else does it in a week or two
<ajmitch> brandon_: what do you mean, you don't see it on the server?
<\sh> brandon_: which packages?
<ajmitch> if that's the case, then you didn't have a successful upload & you should have asked one of us
<ajmitch> usually because of a missing gpg key or a binary upload
<brandon_> dput said it was successful
<ajmitch> dput can't tell you if it's accepted or not
<\sh> brandon_: dput is just the upload...and uploads are just working...even when revu doesn't know you
<ajmitch> only that putting it into the queue worked
<brandon_> well, the documentation didn't say anything about a queue; nto that i saw anyway
<ajmitch> it does say that you need your key in the keyring, and to do source-only uploads though
<\sh> brandon_: it says: send a signed email to keyring@revu.tauware.de
<brandon_> \sh and i sent that email
<ajmitch> and did you get your key added?
<brandon_> and i have a signed key, and i signed each of the 3 packages
<\sh> brandon_: it says: upload debuild -S -sa source packages. so you are sure that you are in the keyring?
<ajmitch> sending the email is one part, you need to have a revu admin actually add it
<brandon_> \sh hell no i'm not sure. i just did what it said i should do
<brandon_> i haven't received any response to the email though
<brandon_> i added my key to the ubuntu keyring using the kde app
<ajmitch> usually because revu admins are busy or because they didn't see the email
<brandon_> dch just repeated the error iw as already getting
<\sh> brandon_: which email address did you send the email from?
<brandon_> i sent the email on fri at 4:42pm. the subject line was "KeyID" the address is bsnider@personainternet.com
<ajmitch> right, and sistpoty replied a day later
<brandon_> i have not received a reply
<ajmitch> From: Stefan Potyra <sistpoty@ubuntu.com>
<ajmitch> To: Brandon Snider <bsnider@personainternet.com>
<ajmitch> Subject: Re: KeyID
<ajmitch> Cc: keyring@tiber.tauware.de
<\sh> there is no password at all
<\sh> shermann@tiber:/srv/revu1/scripts$ sudo ./alter_user.py -e bsnider@personainternet.com -s
<\sh> None
<ajmitch> \sh: no successful uploads yet :)
<brandon_> maybe my isp's mailserver is slow or something
<brandon_> or maybe they're using a junk filter i'm not aware of
<\sh> brandon_: which packages did you upload?
<\sh> pax-utils_0.1.13_i386.deb
<ajmitch> that's bluefoxicy's
<\sh> djplay_0.3.0-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<\sh> ubuntu-live-support_0.3.14-1_i386.deb
<brandon_> kplayer, ktvschedule, maxemumtvguide
* ajmitch is very lagged 
<bluefoxicy> paxutils is mine
<\sh> Format: 1.0
<\sh> Source: kplayer
<\sh> Version: 0.5.3-1
<\sh> Binary: kplayer
<\sh> Maintainer: kiriuja <kplayer-debs@en-directo.net>
<brandon_> right
<\sh> all are native packages, please repackage as non-natives
<\sh> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2394
<\sh> ktvschedule
<\sh> is in the database
<\sh> the others are in incoming, I'll delete them now
<ajmitch> however the changelog is broken for ktvschedule, since it doesn't mention your name at all
<ajmitch> and so no account would be created for you
<brandon_> why would the changelog mention me?
<ajmitch> because you're the one making changes?
<brandon_> i have nothing to do with it
<ajmitch> then why are you uploading it?
<brandon_> because it wasn't already there
<\sh> brandon_: you can't just upload packages randomly, because they are not in ubuntu or debian
<\sh> brandon_: if you upload, then you need to change something or at least you are the responsible person for this upload, not the package creator, who does not know anything about ubuntu
<brandon_> maybe i'm not properly understanding what a changelog is used for in htis context. i didn't develop the software, nor did i make any changes to it, so i didn't think i should put my name on it
<ajmitch> debian/changelog details packaging changes
<ajmitch> not upstream changes
<brandon_> \sh if i upload i need to change something about a program that's not available yet?
<ajmitch> brandon_: did you write any of the debian/* files?
<brandon_> yes
<ajmitch> then that's packaging it
<ajmitch> you put your name in the changelog
<brandon_> that's ok with me
<ajmitch> eg I'm not upstream for f-spot, but I package it
<brandon_> right, i understan that
<ajmitch> so my name goes into the changelog for anything I do to it
<ajmitch> or \sh puts his name in the changelog if he dares to touch my package :)
<zul> i bet he dares
<ajmitch> except he needs to be reactivated in -dev & -core-dev, iirc
<\sh> hmm...breaking ajmitchs zope packages is FUN
<bddebian> Oh, ajmitch will you touch my package? ;-P
<brandon_> but in amule's case, i didn't install a source or anything, i just grabbed the tarball and installed it, and i can make a deb from it
<ajmitch> bddebian: sometimes I ask why we don't kick you from the channel :)
<brandon_> the one in hte repos is about 2 revisions old now
<\sh> brandon_: if you package the tarball as debian package, you are the package creator
<bddebian> ajmitch: So kick me
<\sh> brandon_: and you are responsible for the package in the first round
<\sh> argl...not again
<ajmitch> bddebian: takes too much effort
<brandon_> \sh but what are the implications as far as the amules that are there now?
<\sh> brandon_: if there is an amule package, which is in universe, you grab the source package and update the package to the new upstream version, if this is not done in debian
<\sh> brandon_: or the easy way is to bug the debian maintainer of the package and tell him to update the package to new upstream, so we can sync it from debian
<ajmitch> since the last upload to debian was only a few days ago, it looks like the debian maintainer is fairly active
<brandon_> i dunno. i think the one int here is 2.1.0, but i can have a 2.1.3 package here
<ajmitch> latest in the pool is 2.1.2
<brandon_> yeah, i guess he'll be ok with it then
<brandon_> so you said you already have a kplayer waiting? or should i change the one i made and tyr again?
<ajmitch> we try not to unnecessarily fork from debian
<ajmitch> I don't see kplayer in debian, only amule
<brandon_> the cvs snapshot i grabbed had a debian folder in it
<ajmitch> and it probably needs fixed up to go into ubuntu
<brandon_> and i think marillat made apakcage, but it doesn't work
<brandon_> it didn't work in breezy, that why i originally installed it from the source. but then i figured, why not let everybody have it?
<Toma-> hmmm, Hydrogen 0.9.2 is in the repos, but hydrogen 0.9.3 was released in Feburary this year...
<Erlang> too latte ;D
<Toma-> o rly?!
<Toma-> :(
<Erlang> Dapper has been release.  You can ask for an update and a backport if it's in Debian.
<Toma-> i c
<bmonty> Toma-: it is best to file a bug if you think it should be updated
<Toma-> ok
<Toma-> i can do that :D
<Toma-> Im gonna be programming in my bands drum beats for use with our demo CD and want the best drum machine i can get! ;)
<bmonty> Toma-: talk to dolson if you need help with audio stuff on ubuntu, I think he has a website on the subject
<Hobbsee> hey Toma- and bmonty
<Toma-> rad
<Toma-> lo Hobbsee
<bmonty> hi Hobbsee
<bmonty> Toma-: http://ubuntustudio.com/wiki/index.php/Welcome%2C_Musicians%21
<\sh> brb showering
<bmonty> tmi
<Toma-> :o "Audio hardware"... im about to buy some hardware! this is awesome. thx bmonty :)
<bmonty> :)
<\sh> re
<bddebian> Ah, you smell better ;-P
<Hobbsee> bddebian: or maybe he's now covered by your smell instead :P
<bddebian> *sniff* *sniff*
<bddebian> Hmm, possible ;-)
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> I used my boss shower gel
<Hobbsee> hehe
<\sh> the one for old farts like me...smelling like a businessman ,)
<bddebian> I resemble that remark ;-)
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> why is firefox connecting to www.google-analytics.com ?
<\sh> I used it now for the first time
<Hobbsee> \sh: do you mean connecting, or not connecting to that site?
<\sh> connecting
<Hobbsee> oh
<\sh> or at least it tries to
<Hobbsee> what's the homepage set to?
<\sh> no the homepage is still kubuntus replacement for index.html, but when you enter some url and try to connect to the site you want to go, you see connecting to www.google-analytics.com...
<Hobbsee> eek
<Hobbsee> which site were you wanting to go onto, and does that site involve g-a?
<Hobbsee> no, wait, ignore that
<\sh> Hobbsee: no...
<\sh> Hobbsee: heise.de
<Hobbsee> weird, dont worry about me..
<imbrandon_> morning \sh and Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon
<\sh> moins imbrandon_
* imbrandon_ checks his email to see is xorg has come accross edgy-changes yet
<Hobbsee> heh
<\sh> imbrandon: most of the stuff is not even build
<\sh> which is waiting in the queue
<imbrandon_> yea .... i'm inpatient ;)
<imbrandon_> (sp ? )
<imbrandon_> lol
* Hobbsee is impatient too, and is putting off upgrading...
<imbrandon_> i need a inline spell check for konvorsation
<imbrandon_> lol
<imbrandon_> Hobbsee, upgrading what ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: we wont be upgrading konv for a while - maybe not till they do the next release...
<imbrandon_> i wont run edgy cept in a chroot or vm for a few weeks ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: new partition, stick edgy on it
<imbrandon_> heheh
<imbrandon_> yea i got one all ready on this box and my 64
<imbrandon_> i'm going to have to make a choice soon, this is my good old stable work horse but i'm loving my 64
<imbrandon_> and i'm spending more and more time on it lol
<bmonty> since they are messing with the compiler tool chain it might be best to not upgrade for awhile :)
<imbrandon_> bmonty, yea thus in a chroot or vm ;)
<bmonty> oh, OK
<imbrandon_> i'll run it like that for a few weeks
<bmonty> same here
<imbrandon_> actualy a chroot AND a vm
<imbrandon_> probbly
<Hobbsee> bmonty: well yeah, that's what i'm waiting for them to finish...
<bmonty> now that I have a machine capable of handling it, I plan on messing around a lot more with the VMs
<Hobbsee> and surely everything will need to be rebuilt, with the new compiler chain?
<imbrandon_> bmonty, yea vmware server is free and VERY nice
<bmonty> Hobbsee: I believe so
<imbrandon_> Hobbsee, most like ly
<bmonty> imbrandon_: I have vmware working, but I want toget qemu working aldo
<crimsun_> Hobbsee: it essentially will happy for free with the sid sync. We get to hand-merge everything else.
<crimsun_> mm, fumblefingers.
<crimsun_> s/happy/happen/
<\sh> http://www.managersim.com/blog/index.php/?p=3 google-analytics.com it's not firefox
<imbrandon_> bmonty, well if you do qemu make sure to compile in kqemu support or you'll be sorry ;)
<Hobbsee> fun
<imbrandon_> bmonty, the ubuntu qemu package isnt compiled with kqemu support
<bmonty> BTW, I found a nice site for vmware, http://www.easyvmx.com/
<imbrandon_> and thus runs 1/20th speed
<imbrandon_> bmonty, vmware server is free and lets you create vms too and run more than one at a time etc
<imbrandon_> not like vmware player
<bmonty> imbrandon_: thats good to know....from the way \sh promotes qemu, I thought everything would be good to go
<bddebian> heh
<imbrandon_> qemu is good but its very slow without kqemu support
<bmonty> imbrandon_: this gets you started without the server
<imbrandon_> ;)
<\sh> bmonty: I'm not promoting qemu
<Hobbsee> that looks kinda cool...
<bmonty> ok...evangelising :)
<imbrandon_> Hobbsee, ??
<\sh> I just said, that if someone wants cpu simulation he could use qemu without breaking his system
<Hobbsee> that easyvmx site - and the whole idea of running a VM
<imbrandon_> Hobbsee, ahh yea vm's are VERY nice
<bmonty> \sh: well on the bright side, if qemu did break your system we could do something about it, I'm not so sure about vmware
<imbrandon_> but IMHO vmware server is the way to go with vm development as you can easyly switch vm's create / change the hardware on the fly etc
<bmonty> server has more features but costs $200
<imbrandon_> bmonty, server is free
<imbrandon_> no cost
<imbrandon_> just like vmware player
<bmonty> for a trial period though
<imbrandon_> NO
<imbrandon_> totaly free forever
<imbrandon_> just as vmware player
<imbrandon_> same lic
<imbrandon_> http://www.vmware.com/products/server/
<bmonty> cool, its been awhile since I looked in to vmware's licensing
<imbrandon_> 100% fre ( as in beer )
<\sh> imbrandon_: the open source server is free, free as in beer...something for multiverse...and the SX Server is a single RH based distro
<imbrandon_> esx and gsx server still cost, plain vmware server == free
<imbrandon_> \sh, yea
<\sh> but again, it won't run without breaking the support chain ;)
<imbrandon_> huh ?
* imbrandon_ has run vmware server for a LONG time
<\sh> imbrandon_: when you load the vmware modules, you taint the ubuntu kernel and you won't get support
<Lathiat> ESX is scary
<Lathiat> it runs like 2.4.9
<imbrandon_> ahh yea, same with nvidia drivers and a slew of other things including qemu ( kqemu kernel module is NOT free )
<Lathiat> i hate to wonder how hacked to hell it is
<\sh> imbrandon_: well, the shipped nvidia drivers are supported, if you compile for yourself, then again, losing support.
<imbrandon_> right as i said along with a slew of other things ;)
<ajmitch> if you compile nvidia drivers for yourself & complain, it's your fault :)
<imbrandon_> but as developers i think one should be able to handel loading and unloading kernel modules hopefully
<imbrandon_> if not we have bigger things to worry about ;)
<ajmitch> it's not being able to do it
<ajmitch> it's the binary modules trampling over the kernel & making it impossible to debug problems
<\sh> imbrandon_: but this discussion is all about normal user and people like us, who know what we are doing (sometimes)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: does that apply to other things as well?  like random repos?
<\sh> Hobbsee: yes
<imbrandon_> ajmitch the point i was getting at is there are lots of things that do the same thing including vmware player, kqemu, nvidia etc etc etc
<imbrandon_> \sh, no i was talking about for development
<imbrandon_> thus poeple like us
<imbrandon_> ;)
<Hobbsee> \sh: excellent.  i'll have to adjust ajmitch's statement for various other things that screw users systems, too :D
<\sh> Hobbsee: that's why we have this mix up now with kde 3.5.3 in launchpad
<Hobbsee> \sh: we do?
<imbrandon_> people reporting 3.5.3 bugs in lp ?
<ajmitch> of course they will
<\sh> Hobbsee: yes..the same for amarok...and we have to ask first, what version and what packages they had installed
<ajmitch> the packages are available, malone is ubuntu's bugtracker, so they'll file bugs
<Hobbsee> true - then again, 3.5.3 bugs will still be there in edgy, and that's what we're debugging next, arent we?
<imbrandon_> yup
<imbrandon_> Hobbsee, but that makes a nightmare also
<imbrandon_> i see the point , but my original point was not for everyone it WAS for developers like us , specificaly US in particular ;)
<\sh> Hobbsee: in this very moment, when people are writing about: "My KDE on Kubuntu Dapper is not working"
<\sh> Hobbsee: and then you ask: "which version?" and the answer is "3.5.3" then LP is definitly the wrong place
<\sh> Hobbsee: because kubuntu.orgs 3.5.3 is not of the same quality as 3.5.2 in dapper...so it's a nightmare
<bmonty> goodnight everyone
<imbrandon_> gnight bmonty
<bddebian> Later bmonty
<imbrandon_> brb yall i'm gonna shut this box off and go hop on my 64, back in 5
<Hobbsee> \sh: true.  well...yeah.  is 3.5.3 goign to make it into dapper updates, or did they decide no?
* Hobbsee curses at konv's dodgy scripting
<Kyral> night...
<crimsun_> my guess given the bug reports wrt .5.3 is "not yet"
<\sh> Hobbsee: the changes are not conservative
<imbrandon_> Hobbsee, even if it does ( more likely backports ) but still its not official packages till then and shouldent be on lp
<Hobbsee> okay, be ready for the next damned spam war...
<\sh> that's why I think a good idea is to have an own kubuntu product for those things
<Hobbsee> \sh: of course, the obvious response to that is to just make it as good as 3.5.2, but...
<\sh> HELP Birds in da house
<\sh> ok..going to work...cu later
<bddebian> Later \sh
<Hobbsee> bye remains of \ah
<Hobbsee> bye remains of \sh
<bluefoxicy> \sh:  the escape shell
<bluefoxicy> has anyone got ubuntu-ppc working in qemu on x86
<sladen> what are you seeing not working?
<bluefoxicy> uh.  Lemme install qemu real quick :)
<ToHellWithGA> yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
<ToHellWithGA> did yall take note of my suggestion of adding input plugins to beep-media-player packages?
* bluefoxicy hexedits the official install CD so it says "Obliterate existing crapOS" instead of "Use entire hard disk"  :)
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: but what if the original OS is ubuntu?  :P
<bluefoxicy> it was a joke
<Hobbsee> er...you didnt notice the :P after my statement, hence marking my statement also as a joke?
<bluefoxicy> qemu-system-ppc -net nic -net tap -m 128 -hda hd.img -boot d -cdrom /dev/cdrom
<bluefoxicy> qemu: could not load PowerPC bios '/usr/share/qemu/ppc_rom.bin'
<bluefoxicy> that... can be fixed by getting openhackware, but ubuntu doesn't carry that... but after getting openhackware it refuses to admit there's a video bios
<bluefoxicy> and if you move a video bios in the screen just stays black IIRC (I did this a long time ago, 2 or 3 months back)
<bluefoxicy> sladen:  in general this just doesn't work on ubuntu :P
<sladen> find some source from elsewhere that works;  diff the result
<sladen> file a bug
<crimsun_> ToHellWithGA: b-m-p is EOLed. Any particular reason you really want additional support?
<ToHellWithGA> crimsun_: if it's in the ubuntu packages it should be thoroughly backed
<crimsun_> ToHellWithGA: feel free to work on it, then.
<ToHellWithGA> running b-m-p without plugins to support free formats would be like running GIMP with support for .gif but not .png
<ToHellWithGA> crimsun_: how could I do that.  I'd love to contribute
<ToHellWithGA> *how could I do that?
<crimsun_> ToHellWithGA: there's a packaging guide in System> Help
<crimsun_> (one more level down, don't have it because I uninstalled yelp)
<ToHellWithGA> crimsun_: System Documentation, Online Documentation, Community Support, Commercial Support, or Ubuntu Book Excerpt?
<crimsun_> the first.
* ToHellWithGA doesn't see "packaging guide"
<ToHellWithGA> thanks
<ToHellWithGA> i'll see what I can do to get on that.  thanks crimsun_
<crimsun_> np.
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<crimsun_> 'night bddebian
<Hobbsee> night bddebian
* bddebian hugs crimsun_ & Hobbsee
<LaserJock> ToHellWithGA: the packaging guide can also be found at help.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> ToHellWithGA: but it is in System -> Help -> System Documentation 4th item down
<LaserJock> ToHellWithGA: on Dapper
<jabra_> anyone around
<crimsun_> yes
<ajmitch> somewhat
<jabra_> so been trying to get my samsung palm to sync for a few months now with dapper with no luck
<jabra_> I have followed docs I found online about privs
<jabra_> any ideas ?
<crimsun_> (that's pretty vague, and it seems more of a user question)
* Hobbsee wishes people wouldnt ask vague questions.
* Hobbsee wishes that they'd follow !ask
<jabra_> basically I have a palm I want to sync with my machine
<jabra_> getting a strange error from jpilot when I go to sync
<ajmitch> hm
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hm?
<ajmitch> dsl dying again
<Hobbsee> ah
* Hobbsee kicks ajmitch's dsl
<ajmitch> please don't
<ajmitch> it's fragile enough at the moment
<jabra_> anyone have any thoughts on the pda issue?
<ajmitch> nope, we're just developers & packagers
<Hobbsee> oh, i was going to try and kick it into working...
<Hobbsee> "we know nothing, nothing at all"
<imbrandon_> jabra_: your better off asking in #ubuntu
<imbrandon_> or #kubuntu depending on what your using
<jabra_> aight
* imbrandon_ offers ajmitch's dsl a snack, maybe that will appease it
<Hobbsee> what fun.  the latest ndiswrapper source doesnt seem to include a debian directory anymore, which means the documentation is now wrong.
<crimsun_> Hobbsee: yet another reason to pbuild the sid source package.
<crimsun_> well then.
<dholbach> good morning
<Gloubiboulga> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey Gloubiboulga
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<Sp4rKy> good morning MOTUs :)
<lifeless> morning!
<Toadstool> 'morning motus
<BlueT_> ... # http://www.cafepress.com/geekcultstore/48379  # Geekier THAN THOU
<BlueT_> ooops
<BlueT_> sorry, wrong channel... lol
<neutrinomass> Hi. I'm quite confused. I created a .desktop for 'dfontmgr', but it's not in Launchpad :-/ "aptitude show dfontmgr" works though. Is this a launchpad issue or something wrong on my part ?
<dholbach> neutrinomass: where in Launchpad did you have a look?
<ajmitch> neutrinomass: apt-cache showsrc dfontmgr
<ajmitch> it shows that the source package is defoma
<ajmitch> launchpad only works by source package :)
<neutrinomass> ajmitch: Oh, binary packages were dropped?
<ajmitch> iirc, yes
<neutrinomass> dholbach: I was looking in http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dfontmgr ...
<ajmitch> if they were ever there
<neutrinomass> Ok, I'll file it against defoma ... thanks
* neutrinomass remembers binary packages in launchpad, but is not too sure
* ajmitch needs another computer or two
<ajmitch> this room is cold
<neutrinomass> Computers do heat up rooms significantly :p
<ajmitch> not well enough
* ajmitch only has 2 running
<ajmitch> & one of those is just a laptop :)
<neutrinomass> I used to have a desktop in a small room and it was significantly warmer than the rest of the house (it ran 24/7 ):)
<azeem> ajmitch: run cpuburn on them
<ajmitch> cpuburn doesn't appear to be compiled for amd64
<azeem> oh man, I hope edgy'll suck less ;)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> I'm sure I could run it in a chroot :)
<neutrinomass> Btw, how to get stuff under System->Preferences? I'm not sure dfontmgr should go under system->administration
<ajmitch> CPU is currently at 40C
<azeem> neutrinomass: "get" as in, "get Ubuntu to move things over", or as in "being able to use it for myself?"
<ajmitch> power consumption shoots up about 50W when running burnK7 on both cores :)
<neutrinomass> azeem: get as in the appropriate Cateogories entry in the .desktop file I'm writing
<azeem> ah
<kagou> hi
<Sp4rKy> hi
* Yagisan has 3 pc's running at 100%, and it's still cold
<bluefoxicy> eww o.o there's a defragmenter on revu
<zakame> hi all
<ajmitch> hey zakame
<zakame> heya ajmitch wazup?
<zakame> I'm in manila now
<ajmitch> not much going on right now :)
<ryanakca> is there a "wishlist" of apps that aren't in the repo, but are wanted?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<ajmitch> for a list that may or may not be up to date in any way
<ryanakca> ty
<ryanakca> kk.... just starting out packaging... I'll look for some of the easier ones...
<Yagisan> hmm. soccer on soon. Time to see if we choke.
<Daemon> lets hope not!
<Yagisan> Australia vs Japan will be an interesting match at my place.
<Daemon> i think it will be a good match either way, although I'm not sure how japan have been performing recently
<Yagisan> Daemon: well, I'm Aussie, and the wife is Japanese. should be lots of fireworks.
<Yagisan> Daemon: although, it seems Japan isn't confident of this game
<Daemon> Yagisan: makes for a good match then, like when state of origin is on :)
<Yagisan> Daemon: yep. It was "interesting" being the only blues supporter in a QLD pub, when I was in QLD
<Daemon> blues supporter?  *gets out the cricket bat* :)  I mainly show an interest because my wife is a blues supporter and she's living in qld :)
<Yagisan> right - I'm off to get nibblies, and something to bribe the kids to be quiet.
<Yagisan> Daemon: of course blues. I'm not wasting my money at the TAB :-P
<Daemon> heh, can't deny that at the moment
<tseng> that was brilliant
<tseng> some manager here removed my access to the data center
<zul> oh oh...
<havoc> tseng: nice
<havoc> \sh: morning
<\sh> moins
<pmjdebruijn> hi, how do I make symlink from my debian/rules? it can't find anything about a dh_symlink
<pmjdebruijn> just symlink to ./debian/package-name/... then?
* Erlang pokes pmjdebruijn with dh_link
<dholbach> dh_link
<dholbach> or debian/links
<pmjdebruijn> ah cool... thankyou!
<pmjdebruijn> dholbach, hmm oh? which is cleaner? or more preferable?
<dholbach> i prefer debian/links
<pmjdebruijn> considering my application, I would go with dh_link
<dholbach> but others might prefer other solutions
<pmjdebruijn> oh
<pmjdebruijn> ok
<dholbach> if you have a lot of links your debian/rules get cluttered up
<dholbach> and if you don't need the link anymore you just remove the file
<dholbach> but it's not much to bother with
<dholbach> throw a coin :-)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Hobbsee> heya dholbach and bddebian
* Hobbsee throws bddebian at dholbach 
<Hobbsee> much better than a coin :P
<bddebian> Good luck lifting my fat ass to throw me :-)
<Hobbsee> haha true - i'm not that big and strong :P
<dholbach> so you're having a good time... :-)
<havoc> \sh: so I finally got zoneminder to build properly, but am still unable to get it running :(
<pmjdebruijn> hmm crap, OpenOffice.org doesn't follow symlinks somehow... :(
<havoc> \sh: nph stuff is failing for the streams
<havoc> \sh: you said some of your clients use zoneminder?
<pmjdebruijn> http://www.xs4all.nl/~bruijn9/temp/openoffice.org-humanist-templates_0.4-2_all.deb
<pmjdebruijn> if anybody is interested
<\sh> havoc: zoneminder? no..I don't even know this app
<havoc> \sh: I thought you said one of your clients used it?
<\sh> havoc: no...what is zoneminder? I think someone else is using it, but I don't
<havoc> 2006-06-11 10:29:19 <\sh> oha...I can try to grab for more infos on that piece of software....I have a company
<havoc> 2006-06-11 10:29:26 <\sh> which uses this tool
<havoc> \sh: zoneminder.com
<havoc> http://www.zoneminder.com/
<\sh> havoc: I think it was different from zoneminder...
<havoc> ah
<\sh> ah..now I know :)
<\sh> it was an old customer...I'll have to contact him somehow...
<havoc> ah
<havoc> I only mention it bacuase you sounded interested
<Yagisan> Daemon: well. that was an interesting match
<jsgotangco> meh!
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: pure luck!
<Daemon> Yagisan: indeed, tense end of the match :)
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: I don't disagree. All 4 goals were pure luck
<Yagisan> Daemon: the end was the best bit. Even got my wifes interest when they were all desperate
<Yagisan> now to put the kids to bed
<Daemon> time to put myself to bed I think :)
* Hobbsee looks for the nearest couch, to follow suit
* Yagisan would offer mine to Hobbsee, but it didn't fit in my tiny flat, so it had to go
<Hobbsee> :(
<Kyral_FreeBSD> anyone have a way to spellcheck a datastream in a pipeline that is better than "grep -f /usr/share/dict/words"
<Mithrandir> use ispell or aspell?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> ah yes, but I need to kill the misspelled words in the middle of the pipeline :P
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I'm basically trying to clean up a strings dump of a MSWord file
<hub> Kyral_FreeBSD: try enchant
<Kyral_FreeBSD> wazzat?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Keep in mind it pretty much has to work in the middle of a pipeline
<phanatic> afternoon everyone
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Then again I could be lazy and just nuke all non-alpha numeric characters
<Sp4rKy> please, where could i get help about .desktop format ?
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: What's the issue?
<Sp4rKy> because i've a .desktop file which seems to doesn't work
<bddebian> It's in /usr/share/applications?
<Sp4rKy> yes
<bddebian> Does it not show up or it doesn't run?
<Sp4rKy> but i'm not sure Categories=Application;AudioVideo;GTK is good
<Sp4rKy> it is not shows up
<bddebian> Ahh, hang on a sec
<Sp4rKy> k
<Sp4rKy> http://pastebin.com/704611
<Sp4rKy> it's the .desktop
<bddebian> Try Application;AudioVideo;Audio;
<Sp4rKy> ok i'll try
<Sp4rKy> thx
<Sp4rKy> i use e17 so .desktop doesn't be used
<Sp4rKy> so if i dput my package does anyone could test it for me
<ogra> dont use an absolute path for your icon
<Sp4rKy> ogra, so what kind of link must i use ?
<ogra> no link
<ogra> only devede.png
<Sp4rKy> k
<neutrinomass> Sp4rKy: Hi. The GenericName is not supposed to be used like that AFAIK ...
<neutrinomass> Sp4rKy: KDE uses the GenericName in parentheses (default, this is configurable) so what you'll get under KDE is a menu entry : DeVeDe (Create your own video DVDs) which is too long for a menu. You could "Video Editor", or omit it ...
<Sp4rKy> k
<Sp4rKy> so i'll need to do a patch :p
<bddebian> Actdually don't even put devede.png, just use devede
<neutrinomass> Sp4rKy: As ogra said, no absolute icons are neccessary. Not even the file extension is neccessary (devede is enough). I've been told that .pngs aren't easy to put in .debs either, so you might want to convert it to xpm
<bddebian> Someone may want to throw in a .xpm :)
<bddebian> Oh, whoops, hehe :)
<neutrinomass> bddebian: There's a bunch of .desktops waiting for you you know ;)
<bddebian> Me?  What do I know? :-)
<Sp4rKy> but how could i convert it and generate a package with original source ?
<neutrinomass> Sp4rKy: I'm clueless so I use the Gimp ... as to the package, I'm not sure, I can't package anything :)
<bddebian> apt-get source, change it, add changelog entry dpkg-buildpackage -S and upload ;-P
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, this software isn't already packaged
<bddebian> Ahhh
<bddebian> Package it and stick it on REVU :-)
<Sp4rKy> i'm sorry , but i don't understand how can i package it without modifying .png without modify source :/
* neutrinomass doesn't understand why .pngs can't be packaged easily in the first place
<bddebian> Why do you need to modify the png?
<bddebian> neutrinomass: If it's in the original source (or added to the original source) it's fine
<Sp4rKy> because you've said "Someone may want to throw in a .xpm :)"
<bddebian> But you can't add a binary file to the package unless you update the original source
<neutrinomass> bddebian: Oh, ok :-/ I'll hopefully learn to package stuff during the summer
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: I meant someone may use their own xpm icon or something
<Sp4rKy> so i keep the .png ?
<bddebian> Grr
<bddebian> I mean inside the .desktop, just use  icon=devede
<bddebian> That way if I create my own devede.xpm (as a user), I could just copy devede.xpm into /usr/share/pixmaps and it gets picked up automatically instead of having to modify devede.desktop
<Sp4rKy> ok
<Sp4rKy> i'm sorry
<Sp4rKy> i didn't understand :(
<bddebian> No worries
<Laser_away> Sp4rKy: don't worry, bddebian is just a cranky old man ;-)
<Sp4rKy> :)
<bddebian> Was I being cranky?
<bddebian> If so I didn't mean to
<Sp4rKy> http://pastebin.com/704649 <== so should be a good .desktop ?
<bddebian> Hi Laser_away
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: You will need a ; and the end of Categories but otherwise it looks good
<neutrinomass> Sp4rKy: Add a final semi-column to the Categories and it should be perfect
<LaserJock> bddebian: I think the "Grr" part might have been interpreted that way accidentally :-)
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: Run desktop-file-validate on it
<bddebian> LaserJock: Ah, sorry
<Sp4rKy> devede-1.6/devede.desktop: warning: non-standard key "MultipleArgs" lacks the "X-" prefix
<Sp4rKy> what's wrong ?
<bddebian> Ah, that's a KDE thing.  The new Spec says that they should be X-MultipleArgs=  now
<Sp4rKy> ok
<Sp4rKy> seems good :)
<Sp4rKy> dputed :) thx for your help MOTUs !
<LaserJock> \o/
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: No, thank YOU :-)
<Sp4rKy> :D
<Sp4rKy> you help me a lot with my LOT of issues :) so thank you :)
<JohnnyMast> LaserJock hey mate
<LaserJock> hi JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> any news since the last talk ?
<LaserJock> what kinda news? :-)
<LaserJock> I've been busy, busy, busy
<JohnnyMast> are there known bugs about keyboards the dont work anymore (or not good) since final ?
<LaserJock> I think this has been my most hectic semester in the 8 years I've been at uni
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: not that I know, but I really wouldn't know
<JohnnyMast> specialy for laptops i mean
<JohnnyMast> in that case i should file it
<JohnnyMast> since Final i have to press Winkey + l to see my 'l'
<LaserJock> weird
<JohnnyMast> and left == function key + left
<JohnnyMast> once i hacked the bug ile file the bug and patch
<LaserJock> raphink!
<JohnnyMast> theres an other old friend :)
<raphink> hi LaserJock
<Sp4rKy> hi raphink
<raphink> hi Sp4rKy
<jpatrick> hi raphink
<raphink> hi jpatrick
<jpatrick> long time, no IRC
<raphink> still have no internet at home
<LaserJock> ack
<LaserJock> what's the fun of living on the French Riviera if you can't stay in all day and chat with us?
<raphink> yes I know :(
<raphink> I just have to deal with it
<raphink> go to the beach
<raphink> play volley ball, go swimm
<raphink> hike in the moutains
<raphink> overall I think I'm surviving
<LaserJock> bummer, I feel for you man ;-)
<raphink> haha
<raphink> don't think I'll make it to Paris eventually
<raphink> my boss wants me to begin work on thursday
<raphink> :s
<LaserJock> :'(
<raphink> well we'll see
<raphink> and if I can't, it'll be for another time
<LaserJock> true
<Sp4rKy> please , does anyone could dl http://tiber.tauware.de/~gauvain/devede_1.6-0ubuntu1_i386.deb and test over gnome if .desktop works
<Gloubiboulga> done, the problem is the Exec entry
<Sp4rKy> :)
<jose> hi
<LaserJock> hi JohnnyMast
<LaserJock> doh
<LaserJock> jose
<JohnnyMast> hehe
<jpatrick> LaserJock: Hola Jose!
<jpatrick> it's*
<jose> I uploaded gnomecatalog at 10 june. What is the next to enter in multiverse?
<LaserJock> jose: uploaded to where?
<jose> i have to wait to someone review it? it isnt?
<jose> revu
<jose> laserlock: to revu
<Kyral_FreeBSD> whee
<jose> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1560
<LaserJock> well, we haven't really hit the REVU stuff to hard yet because edgy isn't really set up yet
<jose> Ohh.. ok
<dholbach> although it might be a good idea to review that stuff now
<dholbach> we should try to get a revu day going again
<dholbach> and some ongoing efforts
<dholbach> that'd be lovely
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, I agree, there's too many packages waiting on REVU
<phanatic> i'd be happy to help you, if there will be such a revu day :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: and motu-school?
<dholbach> LaserJock: we absolutely should get going on that one.
<dholbach> LaserJock: I'll think about it in the next days.
<LaserJock> EasyMOTUing or something I read on LP lately :-)
<LaserJock> dholbach: I was hoping we could use the Packaging Guide for motu-school
<dholbach> LaserJock:  I think we should do it in both directions
<dholbach> LaserJock: if people give a talk on something, we have a log of which we can add stuff to the packaging guide or write other wiki docs of it
<LaserJock> agreed
<dholbach> i'm off - have a nice day!
<LaserJock> cya dholbach
<Kyral_FreeBSD> bddebian: it was libgc that you wanted me to test on Hurd>
<bddebian> Kyral_FreeBSD: No need to test, I know it's broken.  Just fix it. ;-P
<LaserJock> haha
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I'm gonna LAUGH if it compiles right] 
<bddebian> Oh I can get it to build with some patching but the tests fail miserably
<LaserJock> oh wow, lots of gnome stuff in dapper-changes
<Kyral_FreeBSD> bddebian: I have never seen this lib before, let alone know what it does and you expect me to FIX it?!
<Kyral_FreeBSD> You put more faith in my abilities than I do
<LaserJock> do what bddebian does an just fake it ;-) j/k bddebian
<bddebian> LaserJock: You are oohh so right
<Kyral_FreeBSD> because BDDEBIAN IS GOD :P
<bddebian> pfft
<zul> heylo
<bddebian> Heya zul
<zul> hey bddebian how goes it?
<bddebian> Same as always thanks.  You?
<crimsun_> 'afternoon, zul, bddebian
<zul> going good im at home which is good
<zul> hey crimsun_
<Spec> Lintian is giving me: description-synopsis-might-not-be-phrased-properly
<Spec> what's the proper way to phrase the description synopsis?
<crimsun_> paste the ^Description:
<Spec> Description: Conexant AccessRunner chipset firmware extracter.
<Spec>  This program is designed to extract firmware out of drivers for
<Spec>  the conexant AccessRunner chipset.
<crimsun_> it's better phrased (according to lintian, at least) as: firmware extracter for the Conexant AccessRunner chipset
<Spec> how can i get lintian to give me it's suggestions?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> lintian -vv :D
<Kyral_FreeBSD> err
<crimsun_> -v -i
<Kyral_FreeBSD> lintian -vi:D
<Spec> what's i?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Informative
<Kyral_FreeBSD> :P
<Spec> ah, very ... informative.
* Spec hides
* Kyral_FreeBSD throws AOL CDs at Spec
<Spec> hah, lintian doesn't give me any errors
<Spec> should I upload to REVU if I think ubuntu deserves this package?
<hub> Spec: sure
* hub wonder if he should start updating to edgy
<zul> i wouldnt
<crimsun_> hub: it'll get rejected almost immediately
<hub> crimsun_: ?
<crimsun_> oh
<crimsun_> sorry, I misparsed updating as uploading
<hub> crimsun_: yeah. updating my machine
<hub> no uploading packages to edgy
<hub> I'll update my pending packages to edgy on REVU
<crimsun_> I see "edgy", and I immediately associate it with "upload" for some reason :-)
<hub> crimsun_: leaving in the edge?
<hub> s/in/on/g
<crimsun_> nah, I don't love breakage /that/ much :-)
<bddebian> Heya crimsun_
<zul> ick...americans sucked at the world cup
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> the what?
<zul> soccer world cup
<LaserJock> I should have put a ;-) on there
<hub> the what?
<zul> or for europeans football
<hub> the what?
<LaserJock> zul: bah, that's not football ;-)
<crimsun_> LaserJock: hence, "futbol" :-)
<Spec> bah, my package forgets to include the binary into it :-/
<crimsun_> forgets -> packager error  :p
<Spec> but the logs looks like it builds it :p
<crimsun_> builds it != moves it to the correct place prior to dh_installdeb
<ryanakca> I take it that this is a bug in the code, and not a pacakging error http://pastebin.ca/64942 ?
<NthDegree> crimsun_ what's the best fs for building/compiling things in (just that, nothing else)
<crimsun_> NthDegree: question's too vague
<NthDegree> crimsun_ ok if I were to mount a partition for pbuilder to build cr@p in which one would be best
<crimsun_> ryanakca: yes, the declaration needs to be updated. gcc4 is much more strict for C++.
<crimsun_> sorry, GCC 4 (not gcc but g++)
<crimsun_> NthDegree: what sort of stuff do you intend to build? ext3 is a good default.
<Spec> crimsun_: how do I determine what's failing?
<Spec> --debug?
<crimsun_> Spec: look at the pbuilder build log and the contents of the generated deb{,s}
<Spec> oo, debug is very verbose
<NthDegree> things could be as small as qtella or as big as an updated DE or web browser, the partition is dedicated for pbuilder's build environment
<crimsun_> NthDegree: if you're uncertain, there's no reason to deviate from the default ext3
<crimsun_> ext3 generally offers the most flexibility, too, particularly if you use lvm
<ryanakca> crimsun_: and how would I do that? change the code?
<Spec> crimsun_: wanna briefly look at my pbuilder log? :-/
<crimsun_> ryanakca: yes
<ryanakca> crimsun_: so much for that :)
<ryanakca> crimsun_: I can't reall mess around with code...
<ryanakca> I can't code. at all... and no, html isn't coding.
<NthDegree> crimsun_, i use ext3 for the operating system, reiserfs for a personal files partition and now I want the optimal FS type for pbuilder to use
<crimsun_> NthDegree: again, "optimal" varies with workload and use
<Spec> http://dc.ubuntu-us.org/~spec/output.txt  <- pbuilder output
<crimsun_> NthDegree: my inclination is to use either ext3 or XFS, but if flexibility is key, then I'd go with ext3
<Spec> looks like it installs into the DESTDIR just fine :-/
<NthDegree> crimsun_ when I set up kubuntu it's without all the services like LVM/RAID, cron, anacron etc. so extras like that aren't a consideration :)
<crimsun_> sec, being swamped
<ryanakca> when running dh_make, how can you tell if its a single binary or multiple?
<LaserJock> wheither you want to create more than 1 .deb out of the source package
<Spec> LaserJock: are you busy? :)
<Spec> ah hah, got it fixed
<Spec> it was a non-existant slash that needed to exist :-/
<LaserJock> \o/, glad I could help ;-)
<Spec> i threatened the package with your name and alas, it worked :)
<LaserJock> heh
<Spec> but now i get other errors from lintian that need fixing
<LaserJock> threaten it wit the name of Bddebian and see if that works
<Spec> i get a lot of warnings concerning: "no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (1234)", is this okay?
<crimsun_> that's safely ignored.
<Spec> thought so
<Spec> woohoo, lintian loves me!
<Spec> *and* the files are actually in the package
<crimsun_> good work
<Spec> how do I upload to REVU with dput?
<Spec> dput revu ?
<LaserJock> dput revu _source.changes
<NthDegree> Spec try dput blah-blah.changes
<Spec> yay
<Spec> how long until it shows up @ revu.tauware.de ?
<NthDegree> oops
<NthDegree> i uploaded mine to upload.ubuntu.com or w/e the default is
* NthDegree takes huge gulp
<Spec> i think default is revu
<NthDegree> nah it went to upload.ubuntu.com i'm surr
<Spec> wait, wait, no, it's not :p
<NthDegree> sure*
<Spec> will I get an e-mail when something happens with my package?
* NthDegree sends Spec a fake e-mail "Your Package Was Rejected!!! Muhahahahahahahahaha" :p
<Spec> you suck
<Spec> :p
<NthDegree> bbiab sorting out blobuntu (yeah I made my kubuntu bloated when I didn't have to :( )
<Spec> ok, gotta go
<Spec> hopefully the revu thing is magical, i'll check in tomorrow
<ryanakca> when running dh_make, how can you tell if its a single binary or multiple?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-13
<Spec[x] > depends if you want multiple debs or not
<ryanakca> meaning...
<LaserJock> ryanakca: I already told you :-)
<ryanakca> its 1 program... so would they be diferent copies?
<LaserJock> if you want to create more than 1 .deb out of a source package
<ryanakca> LaserJock: you did?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> but you might have missed it
<ryanakca> ok, so I take it single binary
<LaserJock> yeah
<ryanakca> oh, hehe oops
<ryanakca> I missed it, yeah
<LaserJock> but for instance, you could have like -doc, -dbg, -dev packages that are also built from the same source
<LaserJock> that is why there are actually quite a few less source packages than binary packages in the repo
<ryanakca> LaserJock: oh, I see...
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ryanakca> stuff that is checked for at ./configure... is that a build-dep or a dep? checking for IMG_LoadPNG_RW in -lSDL_image...
<crimsun_> that's a build-dep
<crimsun_> hint: you're making a package (i.e., compiling source in most cases) -> build-dependency
<crimsun_> you need libsdl-image1.2-dev
<ryanakca> kk
<crimsun_> in debian/control:Build-Depends
<ryanakca> yep :)
<ajmitch> morning
<crimsun_> 'morning, ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya crimsun_, ajmitch
<crimsun_> hi (again)
<ryanakca> configure: error: Unable to find the SDL_ttf library         do I add libsdl-ttf2.0-dev or libsdl-ttf1.2-dev  to build-depends?
<crimsun_> check the source's README/INSTALL
<crimsun_> I'd work from most current backward
<ryanakca> crimsun_: kindof problem... it doesn't have one of those :(
<crimsun_> you could always check the source for what it actually #includes
<ryanakca> *gulps*
* ryanakca shrinks back from the source
<crimsun_> it's just alphanumerics
<crimsun_> no knives or bullets
<ajmitch> often having coding knowledge is important for packaging :)
<bluefoxicy> someone submitted nexuiz 1.2
* ajmitch shouldn't have got out of bed
<bluefoxicy> 1.5 has been out and 1.6 is coming out soonish.
<ajmitch> too cold
<ajmitch> bluefoxicy: seen the date on the revu upload?
<bluefoxicy> February
<ryanakca> crimsun_: alphanumerics that give you a headache :P   seriously... I need to learn how to code... I understand the code, I just don't know HOW to code...
<bluefoxicy> oh
<bluefoxicy> it's sorted by number of advocates.
<bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  help me figure out wtf to do with snort 2.6  :)
<zul> cd /msg ajmitch hola
<ajmitch> ;)
<zul> stupid keyboard
<LaserJock> hehe
<crimsun_> bluefoxicy: RE: snort 2.6, it's worth checking with Javier. Check Debian 320920 in particular.
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 320920 in snort "Subject: snort: 2.4 upgrade, prelude support" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/320920
<ryanakca> config.status: error: cannot find input file: Makefile.in       ???
<crimsun_> bluefoxicy: perhaps if you applied some ... pressure toward upstream RE: the licensing of the rules, that would speed things along in Debian, which can along assist Ubuntu.
<bluefoxicy> crimsun_:  did he rewrite the whole debian/ directory?
<bluefoxicy> crimsun_:  I'm not particularly interested in the rules; in fact I am QUITE annoyed that my last experience with Snort in Ubuntu was "SNORT DEPENDS ON SNORT-RULES KTHX!"
<crimsun_> bluefoxicy: doubtful, but I don't package snort. I'm referring to a licensing issue which prevents the previous stable version from entering.
<bluefoxicy> As far as I care, the rules don't need to be packaged, and snort shouldn't depend on them.  it works just find (albeit, non-operationally) without rules; and end users can easily write their own or get a registered feed and use OinkMaster (which is what I was doing, hence why I didn't like that snort forced me to install a rules package)
<bluefoxicy> crimsun_:  is there another issue besides just the rules files?
<crimsun_> bluefoxicy: I haven't even begun to read all of src:snort's bugs
<bluefoxicy> crimsun_:  nods.  I think at the very least we can assume we don't need rules packaged.
<bluefoxicy> other issues I don't have an answer for.
<bluefoxicy> "In addition, the VRT is pleased to announce that will be maintaining a community ruleset that contains rules submitted by members of the open source community. While these rules are available as is, the VRT performs basic tests to ensure that new rules will not break Snort. These rules are distributed under the GPL and are freely available to all open source Snort users."  <-- there's always these
<bluefoxicy> (however there are no 2.6 community rules)
<bluefoxicy> crimsun_:  I'll check with Javier if I see him online some time.
<ryanakca> how do you build a package that compiles with scons instead of make?
<bddebian> s/make/scons/ ? :-)
<NthDegree> brb
<ryanakca> bddebian:  yeah... Secret Maryo Cronicles (a super mario immitation) builds with scons instead of make
<bddebian> Aye.  I am saying that there is nothing that inherently requires make
<bddebian> Several packages use xmkmf or imake for example
<ryanakca> ???
<ryanakca> bddebian: so what do I do?
<bddebian> ryanakca: You build the package in rules like you would build it externally
<ryanakca> o.O
<ryanakca> I'm just starting to package btw... and I know... not the best beginner choice...
<bddebian> :-)
<ryanakca> What's better, multiple binaries or single binary... ??? I know the difference, just not which one is better
<azeem> that depends on the type of package, really
<ryanakca> ok, a simple kde app... single binary?
<ryanakca> but from the looks of it, the doc is huge... so that's why I'm thinking multiple...
<ryanakca> I'm looking at the Kastrolog candidate at the moment
<ryanakca> what section in control would I put this http://www.paganlink.org/library/astrology/kastrolog.html     ?
<jaldhar> science :P
<jaldhar> ryanakca: seriously, isn't this an existing Debian package?  What section is it in now?
<magnon> hub :)
<ajmitch> hey magnon, hub
<hub> hi
<hub> I update 2 of my packages for edgy
<bddebian> OK, git-core sucks
<chuck_> no it doesnt
<bddebian> Trying to debug the test scripts does :-)
<jmg> hello all
<bddebian> Hello jmg
* jmg grumbles at ooo
<ryanakca> jaldhar: it's in the Candidates list... so I didn't think it allready was... just a sec...
<jmg> guys i am having some trouble with ooo, similar to this bug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org2-amd64/+bug/12611 but on i386 and not resolved by reinstall..
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 12611 in openoffice.org2-amd64 "Openoffice.org2 does not have menu-icons" [Medium,Rejected] 
<ryanakca> jaldhar: nope... far from science... more like "mathematical guessing"
<crimsun_> bddebian: my life would be dismal without git-core kthx
<chuck_> crimsun_: have you used stgit?
<crimsun_> chuck_: not yet
<jaldhar> ryanakca: hmm I was pretty sure it was in debian sid.  fwiw, astrolog (the non-kde version) is in multiverse/games
<bddebian> crimsun_!!  My love.  Wanna help me? :-)
<crimsun_> bddebian: sure, finish my abstract
<jaldhar> crimsun_: stuff is proven.  Other stuff is refuted.
<jaldhar> crimsun_: done!
<bddebian> crimsun_: OK :-)
<ryanakca> jaldhar: I would put it in misc...
<jmg> NO bugs?!
<crimsun_> jaldhar: I'm pretty sure that doesn't fly, since I've tried that one :p
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> Gawd some days I really hate being stupid
<zul> heh..
<bddebian> Well I'm glad YOU think it's funny :-)
<zul> i was reading the forums
<zul> crimsun_: the snd_cs46xx failed
<crimsun_> zul: guh?
<crimsun_> where?
<bddebian> Is there a clean/easy way to see reverse build-deps?
<ajmitch> grep-dctrl
<bddebian> grep-dctrl -F Build-dep foo ?
<ajmitch> take a look at its manpage...
<bddebian> I just did
<bddebian> It's example for searching doesn't include the Packages file.  Do I need to?
<ajmitch> have you tried it?
<bddebian> Yes
<Rotund> is anyone working on iFolder packages for dapper?
<Rotund> also, is it possible to get packages into the ubuntu universe still?
<bddebian> For Dapper, no
<bddebian> Unless you ask for a backport I suppose
<Rotund> Anyone doing packages for edgy?
<bddebian> ajmitch: C'mon mand
<bddebian> -d
<bddebian> Rotund: Not for Universe yet, it isn't open afaik
<bddebian> Some folks are posting to REVU
<Rotund> iFolder is completely open.  I think GPL
<Rotund> REVU?
<bddebian> It's a place to post packages to be reviewed by MOTUs
<Rotund> ahhh.
<whiprush_> Rotund: ping Mez, he's got some work up on revu and launchpad.
<Rotund> I don't see iFolder on REVU
<Rotund> possible it's off the "Current Uploads" list?
<whiprush_> he had it up there a few months ago
<whiprush_> https://launchpad.net/products/pkg-ifolder
<whiprush_> That was client-only iirc.
<Rotund> ahhh.  I don't see any packages on launchpad.  is there a way to get at them?
<Rotund> wait.  now I find it
<Rotund> whiprush_: your repository is pretty out of date, right?
<whiprush_> Rotund: I was just mirroring mez's packages, since he didn't have the bandwidth
<Rotund> ahh
<whiprush_> Rotund: it doesn't even connect to the new ifolder server stuff ...
<whiprush_> if you're willing to package it, you would rule ... the ifolder guys are very ubuntu-friendly.
<whiprush_> they just need someone to put the pieces together.
<Rotund> any idea what IRC channel/server they'd be on?
<Rotund> gimpnet?
<whiprush_> #ifolder
<whiprush_> yeah
<bddebian> wb Laser
<bddebian> Err LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<LaserJock> bddebian: have you uploaded to edgy yet?
<bddebian> Is Universe open yet?
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> they're doing lots of funky things for edgy
<Erlang> funky things?
<LaserJock> apparently we have a -proposed repo
<jsgotangco> like having a working toolchain?
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: bah, who cares about a working toolchain ;-)
<jsgotangco> lol
<LaserJock> does anybody know how -updates works?
<bddebian> You have to request from an archive admin afaik
<TheMuso> We still aren't in full Edgy swing yet are we?
<LaserJock> bddebian: so file a bug and subscribe ubuntu-archive?
<jsgotangco> TheMuso: when are you flying?
<LaserJock> bddebian: or just ping mdz
<TheMuso> I fly out from Sydney on Saturday evening, 18:45.
<jsgotangco> nonstop?
<bddebian> LaserJock: TBH, I don't know the "proper" procedure, sorry
<TheMuso> Stop in Thiland and Dubai.
<jsgotangco> oh
<LaserJock> bddebian: shesh, lotta good you are ;-)
<TheMuso> I think both are changing plains, but not sure.
* jsgotangco wonders if someone will be dropping at amsterdam
<bddebian> LaserJock: None whatsoever :'-(
<TheMuso> And I get into Paris on Sunday 13:30 local time
<TheMuso> jsgotangco: Why?
<jsgotangco> just wondering who i might bump into by chance
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: got your visa?
<TheMuso> Just finalized travel insurance today actually. :)
<LaserJock> I assume so ;-)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Visa?
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: hopefully i get it today/tomorrow
<jsgotangco> same with highvoltage
<TheMuso> I thought it depended on where you were coming from.
<jsgotangco> yes
<TheMuso> jsgotangco: Have you been to any dev summits previously?
<jsgotangco> TheMuso: UDU
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<TheMuso> Lucky you.
<jsgotangco> why so?
<TheMuso> You know what to expect. :)
<TheMuso> And I wasn't able to get to that damn summit, even though I live in Sydney. :S
<jsgotangco> yeah im surprised lol
<LaserJock> TheMuso: it's my first as well
<jsgotangco> i remember us going on a tour bus at night and the bus had tinted windows :/
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I am glad someone will be in the same boat as me then. :)
<TheMuso> jsgotangco: What usually happens at night anyway?
<jsgotangco> ahh depends...sometimes people get too tired and just sleep after a couple of beers
<TheMuso> Right.
<jsgotangco> id say it also depends on where the hotel is located
<jsgotangco> before we're just 5 minutes away from kings cross
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<TheMuso> I can't wait. :)
<jsgotangco> how much does travel insurance cost on your side?
<LaserJock> ack, I've got so much to do before I go
* bddebian flips LaserJock the finger ;-)
<TheMuso> jsgotangco: There is sooo much to choose from, it can get quite confusing
<TheMuso> So it depends on how long you are going, and many other variables.
<LaserJock> I've never heard of travel insurance before
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Really?
<LaserJock> no, but I've never really traveled before so..
<jsgotangco> i never took travel insurance before either
<TheMuso> I travelled in a big group of people back in 2002, and we had it then.
<TheMuso> I got it because of the value of the stuff I am bringing with me. :)(
<jsgotangco> well i took it after what happened before in montreal :/
* jsgotangco looks at ajmitch
<TheMuso> jsgotangco: I heard about that.
* LaserJock will have everything handcuffed to him
<TheMuso> I hope the hotel choice this time was considered for security as well.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: heh
<TheMuso> Handcuffing a notebook as well as possible hardware speech synthesis gear may not be that easy for me. :)
<jsgotangco> wow so you're bringing the whole thing
<jsgotangco> awesome
<TheMuso> Notebook for sure. Not sure about the hardware speech synth yet, as I can't actually use that with my notebook at the moment.
<TheMuso> Well I can, but not for what I would use it for.
<TheMuso> Long story.
<LaserJock> what does the speech synth do?
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: yes, the pain of losing stuff is a good incentive to get insurance
<LaserJock> other than synthesize speech ;-)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Thats exactly what it does.
<TheMuso> You can make it sing if you try hard enough. :)
<LaserJock> TheMuso: can it translate? :-)
<TheMuso> Nope/.
<ajmitch> what good is it then?
<TheMuso> It is good for using with a screen reader. :)
<TheMuso> I am using it on one of my desktops at this very minute actually.
<LaserJock> so is it talking at you?
<TheMuso> Yes.
<ajmitch> scary
<jsgotangco> sorry to ask, but are you speech impaired? or its basically an interest?
<TheMuso> Not really.
<ajmitch> does it do proper accents? :)
<TheMuso> jsgotangco: I am vision impaired.
<ajmitch> so that you can match up who's talking on irc with their accent?
<jsgotangco> ahh
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Unfortunately not.
<TheMuso> It does have an US english accent however.
<ajmitch> a shame
<ajmitch> 'mangled'
<TheMuso> heh
<LaserJock> at least it has a proper accent then ;-)
<LaserJock> hehe
<TheMuso> Actually, I am not sure whether I would find it easy to work with a speech synth with an Aussie English accent.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I'd find it hard to interpret australian as well
<LaserJock> so can you go the other way around and "talk" into the computer?
<TheMuso> Now with a New Zealand accent, thats another story. :)
<ajmitch> yeah, an NZ accent would be just fine
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Not with this speech synth, no. There is software to do that, but as far as I know for Linux it is in its infancy.
<ajmitch> since that's how mankind was intended to speak
<LaserJock> TheMuso: so how do you type? braile?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: No, just an ordinary computer keyboard.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, whatever
<TheMuso> I can read and write Braille however.
<TheMuso> ajmutch: Fush and chups for dunner?
<TheMuso> Sounds almost correct from my synth. :)
<ajmitch> hah
<LaserJock> TheMuso: so can you read the text at all?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: On the screen, it depends.
<TheMuso> I have enough sight, and also use a 21 inch monitor for other stuff as well.
<TheMuso> I can use GNOME and FireFox when I need to for some websites that are very difficult to use speech with.
<LaserJock> dang, that is fast then
<TheMuso> I just turn up the font size in FireFox a couple of notches.
<ajmitch> you'd hate the font size for my irc client then
<TheMuso> Heh
<TheMuso> I spend 99% of my time on the console.
<LaserJock> I can imagine
<LaserJock> although ASCII art might "sound" funny :-)
<TheMuso> It cannot be spoken.
<TheMuso> Any of you guys know whether we will also have net access from our rooms as well as in the conference area itself?
<TheMuso> Or do we have to pay for that ourselves.
* TheMuso was reading the website, and it stated that net access was available from rooms.
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder too
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<LaserJock> bah, do any of you use the "Connect to server" thing in Gnome?
<Hobbsee> morning bddebian :)
<Hobbsee> what's gnome? :P
<Hobbsee> i havent used it in kde though
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yes.
<Erlang> Hobbsee uses KDE..... mmmmmm
<Hobbsee> yes
<bddebian> Hobbsee: ;-P
<Hobbsee> :P
<LaserJock> TheMuso: is it possible to save the info?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: everytime I unmount it I have to put in all the info over again
<TheMuso> All I do is create the connections, and levae their icons on the desktop if I know I will need them for an extended period of time.
* Erlang tend to use Emacs more and more as his 'OS'.
<TheMuso> Well don't unmount it. Nothing gets connected to/affected if you just leave it mounted. It is all done by the gnome-vfs layer AFAIK.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: oh, ok
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I thought maybe it would leave an ssh connection open or something, I'll have to test it
<TheMuso> I dunno. But I know it seems fine for FTP stuff.
<Hobbsee> Erlang: yes, i'm one of those very scary people.
<Erlang> Hobbsee: that use KDE, or that use Emacs?
<Hobbsee> Erlang: that use kde
<Erlang> oh
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee. How goes the world of Uni?
<Erlang> that's not so scrary.
<Erlang> I use KDE too.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: it goes good, but my first exam is on thursday
<bddebian> No, Emacs is scary :-)
<Erlang> Yeah, Emacs makes me uberscary.
<Hobbsee> that it is
<TheMuso> Emacs is scary, and so are Emacs. :)
<Erlang> I've renewed with the look of Visual Studio today, and i must admit I don't miss all that bling.  But now I realise I'm off-topic so I'll shut.
<LaserJock> Emacs is kinda like that Matrix stuff
<Erlang> Is there a #ubuntu-off-topic-for-developers channel?
<bddebian> Say what you want, Visual Studio has some nice stuff
<LaserJock> Erlang: I though that was -motu :-)
<LaserJock> what is Visual Studio for?
<Erlang> LaserJock: Making the boss $
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> LaserJock: MS development
<LaserJock> what language does it use?
<Erlang> C#, VB.NET, C++(.NET)
<bddebian> C, C++, C#, ASP, VB
<LaserJock> wow, but no Python? ;-)
<Erlang> LaserJock: ActivePython can be plugged into it and it's pretty nice admitedly
<bddebian> Shockingly no ;-P
<Erlang> or is it Visual Python... in all cases, it's available from ActiveState.
<LaserJock> I've never been impressed with how hard it was to program on Windows
<LaserJock> everything seems to cost so much
<Hobbsee> Erlang: that's this one :P
<bddebian> How hard?  It's very easy, which is part of the problem I suppose :-)
<Erlang> bddebian: bah, you've never made a plugin for Outlook I bet.
<bddebian> Nah, I've mostly done some ASP stuff and a little VB
<LaserJock> bddebian: no, I mean to get compilers and stuff set up
<bddebian> ah
<LaserJock> I remember when I was younger I wanted to learn C but I had a heck of a time finding a C compiler for Windows
<LaserJock> that was something that really got me going on Linux
<bddebian> Gah, Borland has been around Forever :-)
<LaserJock> I remeber downloading 11 floppy disks to get Debian on my old 386 because it had gcc on it
<Erlang> The guy that works on Windows at work, with Visual Studio and all has the most trouble.  The other people use plain ol' Emacs and we have no blocker.
<LaserJock> and then I never learned C because I had mor fun farting around in Linux :-)
<LaserJock> I guess I was never meant to be a programmer ;-)
<bddebian> Me either :'-(
<crimsun_> well duh, deities don't have to program
* Erlang mails some self-confidence syrum to bddebian.
<bddebian> Gee thanks crimsun_, you always know how to make me feel "better"
<TheMuso> bddebian: You are just very modist.
* LaserJock injects it into him since he won't take it himself
<crimsun_> bddebian: blame google, dude. They cached your wiki page. :p
<bddebian> LaserJock: Heh
<crimsun_> besides, I think my brown paper bag bugs are holding their own tonight :(
<bddebian> brown paper bag bugs?
<crimsun_> mistakes that are glaringly obvious
<ajmitch> we all make them
<crimsun_> true
<Hobbsee> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello
<bddebian> Nah, if you don't do anything, you don't make mistakes :)
<Hobbsee> bleh.  i dont want to be reminded of glaringly obvious mistakes...i wonder if the floor ever did get cleaned.
<TheMuso> heh
<ajmitch> bddebian: must be why I don't make many
<bddebian> heh
<TheMuso> We are only human after all.
<bddebian> ajmitch: Nah, it's cause you are so damn good :-)
<ajmitch> don't I wish..
<Hobbsee> bug 39315
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39315 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Keyboard random repeat " [High,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39315
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: oh "meany", tough words. I'm sure he's scared ;-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: hehe
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I would think https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+changelog would say
<crimsun_> except note the source package.
<Hobbsee> oh cool - hadnt seen that
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: when it doubt, just start adding +<foo> on the end of LP URLs ;-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> poor BenC
<ajmitch> getting picked on from all corners
<crimsun_> meany girls.
<LaserJock> yeah, definately
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if it is bad that I'm making 3 bzr branches of the same thing on 3 different computers
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> you could make a checkout or bound branch instead
<ajmitch> otherwise it becomes more interesting trying to keep them merged
* Hobbsee was surprised that so many people were watching what she said!
<LaserJock> yeah, right now it's not bad but I was thinking that in the future it might get messy
* Hobbsee goes back into a corner, and doesnt talk to the big and scary people
<LaserJock> oh whatever Hobbsee, you know we love you :-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: is that good or bad?
<LaserJock> good
<LaserJock> at least I thought so
<bddebian> :-)
<Hobbsee> right.
* bddebian hugs Hobbsee
* Hobbsee hugs back
<crimsun_> who's back?
<crimsun_> :p
<LaserJock> doh
<bddebian> :'-(
* Hobbsee hugs bddebian, and throws a frisbee at crimsun_ 
<LaserJock> frisbee?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: large object, intended to hit him hard :P
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you dont have frisbee's where you are?
<LaserJock> yeah, but I'd have gone for a hammer or pitchfork or something real ;-)
<crimsun_> well I suppose having frisbees thrown at me is better than being burned alive or trampled
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: really you should have tossed all the KDE bugs his direction ;-)
<crimsun_> dang, that's harsh.
<bddebian> KDE has bugs?
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: no, being burned alive is left for others who anger me.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: hehe
<Hobbsee> bddebian: heh, unfortunately, yes.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: he already gets all the audio ones from kde :P
<LaserJock> what? KDE has sound? woah !:-)
<Hobbsee> hehe.  well, it should :P
<Hobbsee> most of the time, it does
<bddebian> haha
<LaserJock> what's the best intro to Python doc for non-programmers?
<ajmitch> diveintopython?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i seem to have this on my favorites list, but i've never looked at it http://docs.python.org/tut/
<bddebian> Python Cookbook?
<LaserJock> k, k, k
<bddebian> OK, time for this old man to go to bed.  Gnight folks.
<LaserJock> cya bddebian
<crimsun_> 'night, bddebian
<ajmitch> night old fella
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> boy, the party died when the diety left
<LaserJock> either that or we all got back to work
<Hobbsee> nah...
<Hobbsee> we should be doign work, but arent :P
<Hobbsee> anywya, who gave hiim permission to go to bed?
<Hobbsee> (everyone please excuse my bad typing - fingers are very cold_
<Hobbsee> )
<LaserJock> yikes, this Ubuntu Developer's Reference is going to take some work
<ajmitch> yep :)
<ajmitch> that's why you've got Hobbsee to help out
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: say what?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes, updated documentatoin would be good
<TheMuso> heh
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: please port http://www.us.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ to Ubuntu send ASAP, kthxby :-)
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: muhahaha
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Surely a few minutes of lots of typing will warm them up. :)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: eah, if you want to fix the typos
<TheMuso> Nah. I understand what you are talking about.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: get writing :P
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: no I delegated it to you :-)
<Hobbsee> now that would be good to have ported to ubuntu...
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: haha.  you're the documentation person - i just do nothing apart from order everynoe else around :D
<LaserJock> I'm not a documentation person, I just can't keep my mouth shut :-)
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Sure. How did you earn your spot on the Kubuntu community council then? :)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: by various ways and means :P
* Hobbsee cackles evilly
<TheMuso> hahaha
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you do good documentatino - i keep pointing out your packaging guide work
<LaserJock> yeah? sweet
<LaserJock> I hope people find it useful
<LaserJock> a lot of people contributed
<jsgotangco> it sucks!
<jsgotangco> Dapper Drake i mean
<jsgotangco> hehe
<LaserJock> :'(
* jsgotangco is reading sounder
<jsgotangco> heh! not the packaging guide!
<TheMuso> hehe
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: everyone knows dapper sucks
<LaserJock> yeah, yeah, whatever. I know you mean the PG jsgotangco ;-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: well, i do :)
<LaserJock> I'm really going to need lots of -motu help for Edgy
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Why? You have been doing great work.
<TheMuso> And you seem to know what you are doing.
<LaserJock> mwuahahahaha
<LaserJock> that's a laugh
<TheMuso> hehehe
<Hobbsee> :P
<LaserJock> I started the packaging guide because I didn't know how to package :-)
<LaserJock> now I kinda know
<Hobbsee> hehe!
<LaserJock> but I have the Developer's Reference to do now, as well as MOTU work (and Edubuntu stuff)
<LaserJock> so if the MOTU community can help with the PG it would help a lot
<jsgotangco> let's grok the developer's reference in paris
<LaserJock> heh, yeah. I plan on picking Ian's brain
<TheMuso> jsgotangco: What noteworthy contributions have you, and are you still making to the community?
* jsgotangco slacker
<jsgotangco> well kidding aside, i mostly do some small stuff on gnome app install
<jsgotangco> good morning dholbach
<ajmitch> dholbach!!
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach
<dholbach> heya jsgotangco, hey ajmitch, hey Hobbsee - good morning motu world
<LaserJock> dholbach!!!
<jsgotangco> and The OpenCD project
<dholbach> hey LaserJock
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<TheMuso> Got your messages.
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<TheMuso> LSR is a bit of an uncertain bundle as far as I am concerned.
<dholbach> I see.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: it seems that the chat has been killed again!  shameful!
<LaserJock> wasn't me, honest
<Hobbsee> sure sure...
<TheMuso> Does the packaging guide encourage the use of dh-make? Or are we to do things differently now/
<crimsun_> it's method-agnostic afaict
<TheMuso> Ok.
* dholbach usually does   dh_make -b -c <license>; rm debian/{*.ex,*.EX,dirs,docs,README.Debian}  and finds himself ready to go :)
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> License would be useful it it supported CPL. :)
* ajmitch usually doesn't use dh_make
<dholbach> oh well - there's always one death you have to die :)
<ajmitch> :)
<dholbach> drop the -c <license> then
<LaserJock> I try to present how to do more than what to do, I learned early on there were way to many ways to do each packaging task to be exclusive to one
<TheMuso> dholbach: You use cdbs?
* TheMuso would if he understood it.
<dholbach> TheMuso: yes, wherever I can
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: what do you use?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: Makefiles - no debhelper :-p
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I type stuff up
<ajmitch> dholbach: nah, I still use cdbs :)
<Hobbsee> oh icky.
<LaserJock> I'm a debhelper kinda guy
<Gloubiboulga> morning
<crimsun_> 'morning, Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hi crimsun_
<Hobbsee> bye all - off to answer a call for help.
<crimsun_> < andrivid> I tried to upgrade glibc by compiling by hand........and now i got this error whenever i try any command.........
* crimsun_ sighs
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> #ubuntu?
<crimsun_> indeed.
<ajmitch> silly person
<Mithrandir> crimsun_: "reinstall"
<crimsun_> Mithrandir: yeah, that's what people are recommending
<crimsun_> I just don't know what would drive people to recompile /glibc/
<ajmitch> I'm impressed that they managed to do it
<Mithrandir> it's mostly ./configure; make; make install
<TheMuso> heh
<dholbach> seems that ubuntu is not painful enough yet
<zakame> hi all
<Gloubiboulga> hi zakame
<Toadstool> 'morning MOTUs
<crimsun_> 'morning, Toadstool
<sivang> morning all
<crimsun_> 'morning, sivang
<Toadstool> hi crimsun_ & sivang
<sivang> hey crimsun_ , Toadstool
<TheMuso> c
<crimsun_> sivang: did you get the libpcap0.7 issue sorted?
<sivang> crimsun_: yes, for some **weird** reasons, I it could not be found in the repo when I tried then
<crimsun_> sivang: ah, ok
<sivang> crimsun_: but a day after , I retried and it's just worked
<kelmo> gday siretart
<kelmo> and all ;-)
<siretart> kelmo: I'm out for lunch in a sec. but I've seen the posting on the mailing list
<siretart> kelmo: looks like we need to upload a new wpasupplicant package with an increased epoch :(
<kelmo> siretart: but i am not _terribly_ worried about the situation, do you think that is absolutely required?
<rob> bah, anyone familiar with unsermake?
<\sh> rob: it's kde stuff and is not working as expected
<rob> oh, so I shouldn't be worried and just wait?
<siretart> kelmo: well, I'm not too comfortable with having the 0.5 branch in unstable/etch
<siretart> it is still marked experimental at upstream
<siretart> need to leave. cu later
<kelmo> siretart: can you ping me after lunch to further discuss this?
<siretart> yes, will do
<kelmo> thanks
<crimsun_> at worst, just reversion it to 0.5.3+really.0.4.9-3
<crimsun_> avoiding epoch increments is a Good Thing
<ajmitch> 0.5.3+we.dont.want.unstable.code.0.4.9-3
<rob> is the edgy debootstrap working currently?
<rob> there doesn't appear to be an edgy script in the edgy package
<jpatrick> rob: nope
<sladen> rob: enough people have mentioned that is isn't, that I would guess it's probably not working yet
<rob> dam.
<ajmitch> just dist-upgrade dapper if you're that desperate
<rob> its a chroot
<ajmitch> so dist-upgrade it
<rob> it only upgrades about 5 or 6 pacakges, is that correct?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> not much has gone in yet
<rob> ok, I tried that but panicked when I saw that
<ajmitch> why?
<rob> didn't want to break it
<rob> not yet, anyway :)
<sivang> rob: mostly only toolchain stuff is currently slowly dropping in
<rob> oh, I just wanted to set up a pbuilder environment for it
<rob> guess it can wait
<sivang> rob: I would say that a pbuilder setup could be possible, there is there mostly dapper stuff still, just un-updated
<sivang> (I managed to setup a chroot by dist-upgrading a dapper chroot)
<rob> I'm only really just getting started with all this, maybe I'm just to keen :)
<Sp4rKy> hi MOTUs
<zul> heylo
<Sp4rKy> hi zul
<zul> hey Sp4rKy
<siretart> kelmo: he, I'm back now
<siretart> s/he/hi/
<kelmo> re siretart
<siretart> sorry for the delay, we needed to talk about new servers here..
<kelmo> quite an active night tonight
<kelmo> no problems
<siretart> well, it seems that the 0.5 branch has slipped into sid.
<kelmo> precisely
<siretart> do you really want to go with the experimental branch for etch at this point?
<kelmo> with experimental baggage
<kelmo> siretart: well i see it like this:
<kelmo> siretart: i would have preffered that this never happened ;-)
<kelmo> siretart: 0.5 will be marked stable in due time, as part of the wpa_sup development cycle
<kelmo> siretart: i bet that would happen before etch, but that is not guarenteed
<kelmo> siretart: so, whatever happens, i am comfortable supporting it
<kelmo> siretart: but would have preferred to keep 0.5 in experimental until upstream gave the "stable" blessing
* siretart checks the hostap mailing list
<kelmo> siretart: i must wear the blame here, i did not tag the changelog correctly
<kelmo> siretart: in fact i did, but did not sync that one change
<siretart> kelmo: where do you read that jouni plans to make the 0.5 branch stable soon?
<kelmo> siretart: svn history reveals the passage of time
<kelmo> siretart: please re-read my sentence
<siretart> kelmo: no problem. mistakes happen, and I didn't get to review it. so it is half my error for not cross checking
<kelmo> <kelmo> siretart: 0.5 will be marked stable in due time, as part of the wpa_sup development cycle
<kelmo> "in due time"
<kelmo> i think maybe 3 or 4 months
<kelmo> just a guess
<siretart> hm
<kelmo> siretart: however, i would like everyone to be comfortable with what we have
<kelmo> i love what 0.5 series offers
<kelmo> i bet pkg-utopia would like it too
<siretart> the current wpasupplicant package in unstable breaks wpa on madwifi-old systems
<kelmo> and network-manager
<siretart> I'm not comfortable with that at all
<kelmo> siretart: pkg-madwifi (ie ME) has reacted to that
<kelmo> and lool
<kelmo> (Loic)
<pygi> siretart, we are completely to switch to -ng with edgy I think
<kelmo> exactly
<kelmo> we (upstream madwifi) also don't support madwifi-old
<siretart> pygi: yes. I read something like that between the lines in #ubuntu-devel
<kelmo> so i can live with that
<pygi> kelmo, but to be honest, -ng is still higly experimental
<siretart> ok. so you suggest dropping madwifi-old support altogether, and go with the 0.5 branch of wpasupplicant
<kelmo> siretart: i am offering points of discussion
<kelmo> siretart: i am not forming hard opinion
<kelmo> nor hard suggestion
<pygi> siretart, we need our own stabilization periods on both madwifi-ng and wpasupplicant
<pygi> we discovered a security issue in wpasupplicant/network-manager interaction rather late in the process for dapper
<pygi> that shouldn't happen this time
<siretart> well, there weren't too many serious complaints/bug reports on the hostap mailinglist about the 0.5 branch, and hostap is shipping the 0.5 branch as well
<pygi> agreed, I plan to contact upstream about n-m, too see if N-M will be out for edgy
<siretart> hmmm
<pygi> I kinda doubt we should support it, cause even if it will be out, it'll be late in the release cycle...
<pygi> and considering the buggy nature of it :-/
<siretart> kelmo: we can of course wait a week or two, and see how many angry reports we get for breaking madwifi-old, and then reconsider
<kelmo> siretart: as madwifi maintainer, I am more than happy to support those poor souls
<kelmo> and experience tells me that most debian people are installing madwifi-ng by hand in any case . . .
<pygi> siretart, the point is that -ng supports much more and is better
<kelmo> pygi: indeed ;-)
<pygi> just not stability-wise, but that can be improved by our communication with upstream
<kelmo> pygi: we plan to make 0.9.1 release very soon
<kelmo> pygi: stability is definately on the agenda ;-)
<pygi> kelmo, nice, hopefully with some improvements on that field:P
<kelmo> scanning is also fubarred
<kelmo> and mode changing
<pygi> the scanning was most often problem with madwifi-old
<pygi> even tho we backported some stuff from 0.5.x
<pygi> (not the parts we needed to fix it tho :P)
<kelmo> yes, raciness of the bsd stack is a curse
<pygi> siretart, what I would suggest is rather to switch to new wpasupplicant, madwifi-ng and write our own patches for 0.6.3 of network manager
<pygi> and perhaps, but just perhaps port some stuff from it's trunk
<pygi> that way we get most feature & stability wise
<siretart> pygi: for edgy, I agree with that.
<pygi> siretart, I am talking about edgy :P
<kelmo> siretart: i would not like to support madwifi-old anything for etch, not even in wpasupplicant, just this timing was not optimal
<siretart> I see
<kelmo> 2 years of supporting deprecated driver would not be easy
* pygi nods
<siretart> kelmo: I see the argument that madwifi-old isn't an option for etch.
<kelmo> siretart: funny thing was, my madwifi sponsor noticed the wpasupplicant upload, and was quite angry to begin with
<siretart> kelmo: ok. Then let's do this: provide the prepared upload as binary on alioth/the wiki, and write an explanation to our mailing list
<siretart> kelmo: if there are users which insist on using madwifi-old, then they shall take our 0.4 wpasupplicant binary
<siretart> if we get too many complaints, we can revert to 0.4.
<kelmo> no problems
<kelmo> i will add the dpatch to our source package
<kelmo> fopr both versions
<kelmo> and only activate one
<kelmo> would that be okay?
<siretart> kelmo: thats a good idea. provide both dpatches, and make a switch in debian/rules for selection of -old/-ng
<siretart> kelmo: users can then reroll their own binaries, if they like with the switch set to -old
<kelmo> yes
<kelmo> siretart: hmm, do you think i should bother Kyle for one last minute upload, with the required changes?
<siretart> we need to make a decision in <10 days, so that the 0.5 branch doesn't reach testing..
<kelmo> siretart: and move 0.5 to trunk
<kelmo> siretart: pending discussion
<siretart> kelmo: we need some explanation in README.Debian, with rationale
<kelmo> siretart: will do
* kelmo is willing todo anything to help smooth over the situation
<siretart> I don't think the situation is too bad. it is unstable land anyway
<kelmo> agreed
<kelmo> but i feel very much responsible for it
<siretart> kelmo: I don't have unstable at hand, is madwifi-ng actually in debian/unstable? which package is it?
<kelmo> siretart: no, we have planned its upload to unstable just tonight
<kelmo> siretart: sec
<kelmo> http://madwifi.org/wiki/UserDocs/Distro/Debian
<kelmo> explains all
<kelmo> or pkg-madwifi homepage
<kelmo> (yes i pinched pkg-wpa's redirect hack ;-)
<siretart> kelmo: so it will be stuck in NEW for at least one or two weeks :(
<kelmo> siretart: yes
<kelmo> but this is not the end of the world
<siretart> but will break laptops. like the one of my primary sponsor
<kelmo> siretart: i cannot help avoid that
<kelmo> madwifi ABI sucks
<kelmo> bigtime
<kelmo> madwifi-ng is in experimental
<kelmo> btw
* pygi suggests kelmo to improve it ;)
<kelmo> pygi: wext support almost completely eliminates it ;-)
<siretart> kelmo: err, if it is in experimental, and you don't add new package, it doesn't need to go through NEW
<kelmo> siretart: we have made enough changes that it *will* be in NEW
<kelmo> siretart: i am quite aware of this
<kelmo> please see pkg-madwifi svn
<siretart> kelmo: could you revert these changes, so that we have a quick version in unstable, and upload the version with the new binary packages afterwards?
<kelmo> siretart: i too must follow my sponsors advice
<kelmo> siretart: and I have
<siretart> hm
<siretart> ok. then let's include these notes to wpasupplicants README.Debian
<kelmo> siretart: i don't have any rapid communication avenue with him either, not rapid enough to revert stuff just discussed anhour ago
<siretart> suggest users to either use madwifi-ng from experimental, or roll madwifi-ng their own
<siretart> or revert their package to 0.4
<kelmo> siretart: what about my own packages?
<kelmo> ;-)
<siretart> err, /me confused
<kelmo> http://madwifi.org/wiki/UserDocs/Distro/Debian/MadWifing
<kelmo> many people have been using those for quite some time
<siretart> or use these packages, of course
<siretart> ok
<kelmo> siretart: i would suggest we point to the madwifi.org wiki in our docs
<kelmo> too
<kelmo> that way i can make rapid changes to the avenue of support for the people effected by this change
<siretart> kelmo: let's prepare these notes intended for README.Debian on wiki, and point to that place in the docs
<kelmo> yep
<siretart> I don't mind if we use madwifi.org or wiki.debian.org. the other wiki should link to the information
<kelmo> yep, indeed
<kelmo> but i am absolutely comfortable with madwifi wiki
<kelmo> because i wrote it ;-)
<siretart> ;)
<siretart> ok
<kelmo> siretart: thanks for your time discussing this issue
<kelmo> very appreciated
<siretart> then I let you prepare the notes, I continue my work. I see that I can finish earlier (in 2 or 3h) so I can start reviewing and preparing our svn
<siretart> kelmo: just tell me where you prepare the notes
<siretart> kelmo: hey, we are both Co-maintainers for this package ;)
<kelmo> siretart: i will email pkg-wpa
<siretart> ok
<kelmo> siretart: being co-maintainer does not mean you must talk with me about anything ;-)
<kelmo> although, that'd be quite unhealthy
<kelmo> siretart: i have 2 hours until the clock strikes twleve, then i must sleep or else my work will suffer ;-)
<siretart> kelmo: no. but every change must be documented in the changelog so all developers know what happens
<siretart> kelmo: ok. I'll continue then
<kelmo> see you later
<kelmo> siretart: oh yeah, slightly off topic, but /usr/bin/* was completely missing on my laptop due to ext3 corruption just last night : (
<kelmo> siretart: etch beta2 netinstall saved the day in about one hour
<Whoopie> Hi, where can I find the the build progress of the dapper-updates packages?
<Riddell> Whoopie: same place as any other package
<Riddell> Whoopie: buildds are on manual and upload to dapper-updates have to be approved
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+builds
<Whoopie> Riddell: so, when they are accepted in dapper-updates, they are not built automaticly?
<Riddell> Whoopie: correct
<Riddell> you need to talk nicely to infinity
<ogra> and get approval for the upload first :)
<Riddell> the approval bit is even less transparent, no launchpad interface to that
<Whoopie> ok, thanks. that's for all packages, not only universe/multiverse?
<Riddell> yes, all packages
<Whoopie> hmm
<siretart> kelmo: puh. lucky you :)
<Sp4rKy> what's the members section at ubuntu.com ?
<jpatrick> where?
<Sp4rKy> jpatrick, yes where sorry
<ogra> what members section ?
<jpatrick> Sp4rKy: ^
<Sp4rKy> ogra, section with all personnal pages
<ogra> there is launchpad and the wiki, feel free to make a personal page on one of them ...
<ogra> (or on both)
<Sp4rKy> i've done a personal page on the wifi , but i don't know where it is so i can't find it to modify :p
<jpatrick> wiki.ubuntu.com
<ogra> the wiki has a search function
<Hobbsee> greetings all.
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso :)
<Yagisan> G'day Hobbsee. TheMuso
<Hobbsee> hey Yagisan
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee, Yagisan, TheMuso
* ajmitch is off to sleep
<Yagisan> night ajmitch
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch and goodnight :)
<Talorex> hi
<Yagisan> hmm. can anyone suggest an app that captures opengl to either .avi or to lossless images ?
<kelmo> siretart: as an added bonus, that init script has _completely_ dissappeared ;-)
<Whoopie> Riddell: just onother question: there's http://buildd.debian.org. Is there something equal in Ubuntu?
<siretart> kelmo: yay! :)
<siretart> kelmo: err, btw, why?
<jpatrick> Whoopie: https://launchpad.net/+builds
<kelmo> siretart: wpa_action is the way we support roaming, not some half baked init daemon, imho
<kelmo> siretart: i did not want to send conflicting messages (and again, this was not meant to enter sid!)
<siretart> kelmo: right, we agreed on that some time ago. the initscript in usr/share/doc doesn't hurt however, did it?
<kelmo> siretart: i can reinstate it right now, as part of the current changeset, if required (i do not like the code in the init script however)
<Whoopie> jpatrick: thanks. I'm blind and didn't see the search function. sorry.
<siretart> kelmo: I'd say keep it in usr/share/doc for now. it doesn't hurt, isn't a conffile, doesn't cause conflicts
<siretart> just in case somebody like felix again comes up and screems,before wigroamer is implemented and uploaded
<kelmo> siretart: well, at the time it was removed, i was gloating about how nice wpa_raom was working (for me)
<kelmo> siretart: will do it
<siretart> I don't like it either, it is rather a defensive measure for ppl like felix..
<siretart> thanks
<kelmo> siretart: I added the madwifiold patch
<siretart> cool. thanks
<kelmo> siretart: made a NEWS entry with brief instructions on how to enable it
<kelmo> siretart: edited WPA wiki page on w.d.o
<kelmo> siretart: made a note on madwifi.org debian page that links to other page on w.d.o
<kelmo> i am sure you will be able to improve some of the text
<kelmo> but its the best i can offer in this timeframe
<siretart> kelmo: no problem. get some sleep, I will continue in about an hour
<kelmo> siretart: should we think about asking for a new upload, considering the circumstances?
<siretart> kelmo: will do so on the list, as soon as I looked at it, okay?
<kelmo> siretart: yep, cool
<kelmo> siretart: one last quickie, should I transfer branches/wpasupplicant-0.5 to trunk, or not yet?
<siretart> kelmo: do it, we can still revert if necessary
<kelmo> siretart: and good news is we have kyle's attention ;-)
<siretart> kelmo: I just answered
<siretart> ah, you as well ;)
<kelmo> siretart: i copied trunk to /branches/wpasupplicant-0.4
<kelmo> siretart: and repopulated trunk with current version
<kelmo> s/copied/moved/
<siretart> ok. great.
<kelmo> well, popualation is taking a long time on my link
<tired_off_being_> Hi, I noticed a problem with *.archive.ubuntu.com and wanted to make sure you were aware of it. One of the two servers doesn't have the right content
<cf2> Compare http://85.133.25.8/ (good) with http://85.133.25.7/ (bad)
<cf2> <random person> on #ubuntu pointed me here, so apologies if I'm off base
<Spec> me, it was me, bwahahhaaa.
<phanatic> afternoon everyone
<cf2> Spec: since I've had no response, should I file a bug ?
<hub> how can a MOTU fix a package in main?
<pygi> hub, a sponsor can upload fix for you
<_ion> http://johan.kiviniemi.name/software/goodmorning/
<hub> so I have to talk to seb128 then
<zul> i could do it for you once edgy opens
<bddebian> Howdy gang
<Spec> cf2: dunno
<cf2> Spec: so maybe the server died and isn't set up again. The the consquences for apt have been going for a few days
<cf2> *again yet
<Spec> hey, cf2 i would but bddebian, he seems to know everything
<bddebian> Bah, I don't know anything
<cf2> bddebian: I noticed that the two machines that resolve for *.archive.ubuntu.com have different content. Compare http://85.133.25.8/ (good) with http://85.133.25.7/ (bad)
<cf2> This gives me gzip errors when running Synaptic/Update Manager because .7 is returning a text 404 instead of a valid gzip archive
<cf2> (stock sources.list on Dapper)
<bddebian> Probably should ask in #-devel?
<cf2> That's #ubuntu-devel or literally what you said ?
<jpatrick> the former
<cf2> ok, will try that then
<cf2> thanks for your help
<Spec> so, i submitted a package to revu yesterday, what should i do about it? :p (i don't see it on revu.tauware.de?)
<siretart> Spec: which one?
<Spec> cxacrufw-1.2
<siretart> Spec: ah, you didn't read the instructions properly ;)
<siretart> Spec: you uploaded a binary package. they can't be reviewed and are ignored by revu
<siretart> Spec: btw, did you intend to upload a native package?
<Spec> native as in i386?
<Spec> Hmm, I thought I uploaded the source package
<Spec> d'oh, i didn't
<bddebian> Hi ivoks
<Spec> ok, just uploaded the source
<siretart> Spec: again, without .orig.tar.gz
<siretart> native, as in without .orig.tar.gz
<Spec> How does the .orig.tar.gz get made?
<Spec> oh, dh_make makes that
<Spec> can't upload it again because the file exists?
<Spec> i can't delete it off the ftp server :p
<LaserJock> Spec: did you use dput -f
<Spec> of course not
<Spec> okay, all is uploaded, and the .orig :p
<Spec> i don't know where the .orig file went though, it's not in the incoming/ directory it seems
<Spec> oh, no, i'm an idiot. wrong repo, anyways, i still get an error: "Error 553 Could not create file. ' because cxacrufw_1.2-1.dsc already exists
<siretart> Spec: I removed it for you one more time ;)
<Spec> yay :)
<Spec> i noticed :p
<Spec> phew, it's all there now :p
<Spec> now i wait on a cronjob to do mini-dinstall or the equivalent?
<LaserJock> siretart: what is up with that? It keeps happening
<LaserJock> the .dsc file just needs to be removed?
<siretart> Spec: and you didn't ask me to include your keyid :/
<Spec> hmm?
<Spec> I think the changes file was rejected
<Spec> oh, no, it's actually there :p
<siretart> now it has got accepted, I imported Specs key
<siretart> I'm off for today now. cu
<Spec> thanks :)
<bddebian> So who knows grep-dctrl?
<LaserJock> bddebian: what are you trying to do?
<bddebian> I want to see what packages build-depend on foo
<bddebian> I try grep-dctrl -F Build-depends foo and get nothing
<LaserJock> and you are telling it what packages to do that on?
<bddebian> Well I think I can use the Packages file but I'm not sure
<LaserJock> bddebian: I usually use lucas' multi-distro-tools for that
<bddebian> Hmm
<LaserJock> or I write a python script for the heck of it
<bddebian> ryanakca: Still here?
<ryanakca> yep
<bddebian> Any luck with the scons thing yet?
<ryanakca> nope
<Toadstool> g'night motus
<bddebian> What are you trying to package?
<bddebian> Gnight Toadstool
<ryanakca> Secret Maryo Chronicles
<ryanakca> want me to ftp/dcc/put the source on my server/whatever for you?
<bddebian> ryanakca: It's your own package?
<ryanakca> no...
<ryanakca> I'm making a package... from someone elses source
<ryanakca> or you can download the .zip http://www.secretmaryo.org/
<bluefoxicy> <@LeoNerd> E.g. "debuild binary" reports that it doesn't know how to "binary" despite that being in the manpage
<bluefoxicy> lol
<_ion> Worksforme
<ryanakca> bddebian: any ideas?
<bddebian> ryanakca: Looking :-)
<ryanakca> :)
<ryanakca> btw... I have piano soon, so I might not reply for a while :D
<blanky> hey guys, is there anything I can help with with python? I mean, is there something I can look at, a page or something, that shows the projects/bugs/things that require python knowledge to fix?
<LaserJock> blanky: no one is here?
<LaserJock> :-)
<blanky> >=O
* _ion wishes he had a piano
<ogra> LaserJock, well, its easy to oversee the 115 ppl hiding in the rooms corners ;)
<LaserJock> well, I do suppose all those slackers don't count ;-)
<ogra> heh
<bddebian> Do
<bddebian> h
<bddebian> I resemble that remark ;-P
<crimsun_> bddebian's no slacker, he's a deity
<blanky> so...
<Murray> I'm new here and would like to help dev. I'm just not sure where to start.
<LaserJock> anybody know if Uploaders: means anything in Ubuntu?
<ogra> nope, it doesnt
<ogra> like Maintainer:
<LaserJock> k, that's what I thought, oh well
<LaserJock> blanky and Murray: give me a sec and I'll be with you
<blanky> kay
* bddebian pokes crimsun_
<bddebian> ryanakca: Where do you see that it uses scons?
<ryanakca> bddebian: forums... bbl...
<bddebian> NP, I have to head home anyway.  I'll check it out
<Spec> so...any MOTU wanna review/advocate my package? O:)
<bddebian> Later folks
<phanatic> Spec: i'm not a motu, but i could have a look if you want :)
<Spec> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2426 :)
<LaserJock> ok blanky and Murray
<blanky> :)
<LaserJock> blanky: are you interested in writing new apps, or bug fixing, or packaging existing apps?
<blanky> all/either
<blanky> except for packaging existing apps
<LaserJock> hmm, well for looking for new stuff I'd check out specs
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
<LaserJock> and for bugs
<LaserJock> I'd check out wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
<LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay, and also #ubuntu-bugs
<blanky> kay, what I was particularly interested in was, I heard recently that ubuntu wanted it's programs, or more programs rather, in python, so I was wondering if there was a page that showed just what types of programs they were looking for, or what was in demand
<LaserJock> well, there is lots of stuff needed, but there isn't a Python specifc list
<blanky> okay, thanks
<LaserJock> Ubuntu sort of "leans" towards Python but it isn't exclusive by any means
<LaserJock> it depends on the app and upstream authors, etc.
<blanky> of course
<LaserJock> the specs might be a good place to find projects to work on
<LaserJock> but Ubuntu itself is a distro so don't think we exactly write a lot of new software
<Murray> I'd like to start the Linux programming bit. I am a elec. eng. 8 years exp. in Borland Delphi. I use GNU GCC for embedded Firmware dev. Assembler etc. but very limited unix experience/exposure.
<bluefoxicy> <@LeoNerd> This appears to be a breakage if using CDBS rather than the templated debian/rules file built by dh_make
<Murray> I'd like to start the Linux programming bit. I am a elec. eng. 8 years exp. in Borland Delphi. I use GNU GCC for embedded Firmware dev. Assembler etc. but very limited unix experience/exposure.
<Murray> I'd like to start the Linux programming bit. I am a elec. eng. 8 years exp. in Borland Delphi. I use GNU GCC for embedded Firmware dev. Assembler etc. but very limited or no unix experience/exposure.
<bluefoxicy> Murray:  stfu
<bluefoxicy> Murray:  Er, I mean, only post the same question once.
<ogra> bluefoxicy, be careful with your wording
<Murray> Sorry!
<bluefoxicy> _ion:  still worksforyou?
<LaserJock> bluefoxicy: I had a bunch of lag
<LaserJock> bluefoxicy: it could have been that
<phanatic> LaserJock: do you have reviewer rights on revu?
<bluefoxicy> ogra:  'stfu' is much faster to type though :)
<LaserJock> phanatic: yeah
<LaserJock> but I have to go right now
<ogra> bluefoxicy, but totally inappropriate for any ubuntu channel
<phanatic> LaserJock: okay then :)
<bluefoxicy> ogra:  well yeah, but to be fair so is flooding :)
<ogra> but you can tell him to stop it in a more appropriate way
<bluefoxicy> ogra:  you're no fun (ad-hominem)
<Murray> Sorry folks it seems my IRC ap treats a cut and paste as a enter. By bad.
<bluefoxicy> Murray:  okay then well anyway.
<blanky> !language
<Erlang> ?language ?
<blanky> erlang, isn't that that weird networking langauge?
<blanky> *language
<blanky> http://www.erlang.org/about.html
<Murray> Anyone...?
<Erlang> yes
<Erlang> Murray: your welcome to get involed is pretty much the only thing we can answer to your "question".
<Murray> ADV on where to start? What lang. are mostly used in the ubuntu packages etc.
<Erlang> In the packages, C/C++ is majority.  But development started by Ubuntu is in Python.
<phanatic> Spec: ping
<Murray> Thanks Erlang. Do you have a suggestion of a simple typical ap that I should use as an example. To build myself. mod. learn etc. Like windows calc, but one that is a good example of what the community expects?
<Erlang> Murray: no I don't have such answer.
<Erlang> Murray: the best way to get involved into such a big project is to hook up to something you care about.
<Erlang> Murray: for example, you could work on some package related to embeded software
<Murray> K. no experience in Python though. Downloading it now. wil have to do some learning first.
<Erlang> should be easy enough
<Murray> Thanks for the adv. download compleated. see you all soon.
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-14
<ryanakca> is there a howto on making a deb from a .bin?
<ajmitch> hello LaserJock
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you know much about debconf?
<LaserJock> hello btw :-)
<ajmitch> :P
<ajmitch> I know some, why?
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<ajmitch> morning
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure about the different modes
<LaserJock> so there is like ncurses looking thing, and the more cool version I see in synaptic
<LaserJock> is that dependent on the package manager or on something in the actual package?
<ajmitch> it's not synaptic only
* ajmitch recalls seeing a gnome debconf frontend
<LaserJock> right
<ogra> gkdebconf ?
<phanatic> i think there are different frontends to debconf, the user may set which one to use. curses and gtk is such a frontend. or am i totally wrong? :)
<ogra> ah, no, that was a dpkg-reconfigure frontend
<LaserJock> yeah
<ogra> phanatic, not all work out of the box
<LaserJock> but is it specific to the package? or the user?
<ogra> the dependencys :)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: AFAIK the debconf front-end is not package specific.
<ogra> LaserJock, apt-cache show debconf|grep Suggests:
<TheMuso> I remember doing a dist-upgrade to debian sid on a box a while ago, and one of the questions was to choose the debconf front-end. Dialog and other choices were available,.
<ogra> its depending on the installed frontend libs
<LaserJock> arg, ok
<phanatic> TheMuso: that's what i meant :)
<ogra> if you select one that hasnt the deps available, it falls back to curses
<phanatic> but in ubuntu (at least when using synaptic) gtk is the default, not?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> because libgnome2-perl is a dependency of ubuntu-desktop
<LaserJock> but dpkg and gdebi use curses, I think
<plugwash> does it also fall back to curses if X11 isn't availible?
<ogra> yep
* LaserJock marvels at the difficulty associated with closed source packaging :/
<plugwash> (by not availible i mean the display variable etc not set)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: still doing that task?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yes
<LaserJock> ajmitch: today is the final day though, I hope
* LaserJock will retreat back to academia
<LaserJock> it has been interesting
<ryanakca> bddebian: wb
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi ryanakca
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<ryanakca> haven't found anything on scons + .deb...
<ryanakca> and I asked in #debian-devel... the reply was "WTF is Scons?"
<bddebian> Where does it deviate from configure and make.  I'm a little confused obviously?
<ryanakca> same here... I wish people WOULD stick to configure and make
<bddebian> ryanakca: No, now Why, Where?  According to readme-linux.txt it is just autogen.sh, ./configure && make?
<ryanakca> I have no clue what the difference is... its only the 2nd time that I've ever heard of it... but you SHOULD be able to go sudo scons, and it'll configure, make and install
<ajmitch> look for packages that use scons to build that are currently in debian or ubuntu
<ryanakca> http://www.secretmaryo.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=107
<bddebian> ajmitch: Hi :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: This is why I was trying to use grep-dctrl to see what packages build-dep on scons :-)
<ryanakca> thats the topic where they explain that they switched from the old autogen to scons...
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes, why didn't you?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Because I can't get it to work :-(
<bddebian> I'm st00pid rememeber :'-(
<ajmitch> right...
<bddebian> I tried 'grep-dctrl -F Build-depends scons' to no avail
<ajmitch> and like grep, it needs data to work on
<bddebian> Aye but what Packages file do I use?
<ajmitch> the right one :P
<ajmitch> in fact, no Packages file at all
* ryanakca is confused... 
<ajmitch> Packages doesn't list Build-Depends, because it's not a field for a binary package
<bddebian> Oh, duh
<bddebian> Sources?
<ajmitch> it would work a little better
<bddebian> <dumb question>Where is it?</dumb question>
<bddebian> ryanakca: I'm not quite sure what the issue is.  Can't you just put scons in debian/rules instead of configure && make
<bddebian> ?
<ryanakca> I guess I could try...
<ryanakca> so comment out the whole file, and just put in "scons"?
<bddebian> No
<ajmitch> bddebian: /var/lib/apt/lists..
<bddebian> ajmitch: Thank you!
<bddebian> ryanakca: In the specific targets, (i.e. build) take out any ./configure or $MAKE stuff and use scons.  Have you already run dh_make and have a rules file?
<ryanakca> yes
<bddebian> ryanakca: Can you paste it in a pastebin?
<ryanakca> kk
<bddebian> ryanakca: Also, do you know which SDL package you need?  There are a buttload :-(
<LaserJock> bah, where does infinity live?
<ajmitch> melbourne, australia
<bddebian> AU
<LaserJock> k, so he might be up?
<ajmitch> not sure what timezone he lives in though ;)
<ryanakca> http://pastebin.ca/65331
<ryanakca> bddebian: according to forums, libSDL-dev
<ajmitch> LaserJock: there have been days when he's still been up at this time
<ryanakca> control http://pastebin.ca/65332
<LaserJock> ajmitch: it's gotta be morning there, no?
<ajmitch> yes
<LaserJock> k
<ajmitch> 10:25AM
<bddebian> ryanakca: Do 'apt-cache dump |grep libsdl |grep dev |grep Package' ;-P
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to figure how synaptic figures out the debconf interface
* TheMuso thought it was an environment variable.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> but apt-get, dpkg, and gdebi are using Dialog
<LaserJock> and synaptic is using Gnome
<LaserJock> and I'm trying to figure out why that is
<bddebian> ryanakca: As a test, just replace $(MAKE) with scons
<ogra> apt-get source synaptic && grep DEBCONF synaptic-*/*
<ryanakca> http://pastebin.ca/65333
<ogra> ?
<bddebian> ryanakca: Aye. :-)  libsdl-dev is not enough, I tried it :-)
<LaserJock> ogra: sure if you want to do it the easy way ;-)
<ogra> :)
<LaserJock> ogra: I wanted to bug somebody :-)
<ogra> then you will have to wait for mvo to get up, he'll know since he implemented it :)
<ryanakca> kk, testing apt-get install libsdl*
<bddebian> Heh
<ryanakca> nope... dependency probs
<ryanakca> sudo apt-get install libsdl1.2-all
<ryanakca> that should fix it, eh?
<bddebian> We'll find out :-)
<LaserJock> ogra: mwuahahaha, putenv("DEBIAN_FRONTEND=gnome");
<ryanakca> *twiddles*
<bddebian> Still no go:
<ogra> LaserJock, well, quick and dirty :)
<bddebian> Checking for SDL_Init(SDL_INIT_VIDEO) in C library SDL... no
<LaserJock> ogra: but exactly what I wanted
<ogra> :)
* bddebian likes 'quick and dirty' ;-)
<chillywilly> hey
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<bddebian> ryanakca: Pull the source for 'yafray'.  It is a scons package
* bddebian hugs ajmitch
<ryanakca> bddebian: ok, when I try to run scons, without debuild... just to make a test build WITH scons, I get the error in the last post of this thread http://www.secretmaryo.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=107&sid=ea0840f3713ea219719bcdaaa183641d
<ryanakca> interesting rules file...
<ryanakca> hmmm... could I build the source from a slackware .tgz package?
<ryanakca> build source/package from a slackware .tgz package I mean
<TheMuso> ryanakca: What format is the slackware package?
<TheMuso> The binary package?
<LaserJock> tgz
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Thats just a tarball.
<ryanakca> .tgz... I think it's a source... either slack or gentoo builds everything from source with portage... forget wich one
<LaserJock> gentoo
<TheMuso> Slackware also uses .tgz files for binary packages.
<LaserJock> I think the binary in slack is a .tgz but I could be wrong
<crimsun_> bddebian: that should be covered by libsdl1.2-dev
<bddebian> crimsun_: I thought so too but it doesn't work :-(
<bddebian> ryanakca: Do you have all the build deps, like libcegui-dev?
<ryanakca> no... I can't even get the source to build properly with this "scons" thingy
<ryanakca> ok, the .tgz creates a folder "usr/, which containts bin/ share/     bin/ contains the executable "smc",     share/ some files...
<TheMuso> Ok so it is a binary packages.
<TheMuso> package
<ryanakca> yes...
<TheMuso> the tgz that is.
<ryanakca> hmmm... I'll try running ~/deb/usr/bin/smc... I'll tell you the results...
<ryanakca> ./smc: error while loading shared libraries: libSDL_gfx.so.13: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<crimsun_> ah!
<crimsun_> libsdl-image1.2-dev
<crimsun_> err
<crimsun_> libsdl-gfx1.2-dev
<ryanakca> allready installed :S
<crimsun_> "libSDL_gfx.so.13"? geez, what soname madness....
<ryanakca> so it's either a problem with libsdl or with scons and the source code
<bddebian> crimsun_: I've tried both of those too :-(
<crimsun_> root@garnish:/usr/include/SDL# dpkg -L libsdl-gfx1.2-4|grep .so.
<crimsun_> /usr/lib/libSDL_gfx.so.4.9.0
<crimsun_> /usr/lib/libSDL_gfx.so.4
<TheMuso> Thats what you get with slackware packages. The quality is up to shit.
<ryanakca> see... I'm getting the error as said in message of 20:38
<TheMuso> Particularly 3rd-party package.
<ryanakca> lol
<TheMuso> packages.
<crimsun_> if there's a config.log, it should spit out what pkg-config is failing on
<ryanakca> crimsun_: it doesn't run off of ./configure... it uses some wierd thing called "scons"
<crimsun_> ah
<TheMuso> Where can I grab the source for this package you are trying to build?
<TheMuso> And is it in universe?
<ryanakca> http://pastebin.ca/65337
<ryanakca> no... not in universe... I'm packaging it for REVU http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/smclone/SMC_0.98_source.zip?download
<bddebian> There isn't anything particularly "weird" about scons, but we need to get the build-deps figured out
<TheMuso> It has autoconf stuff there.
<bddebian> scons is basically just a souped-up configure && make
<TheMuso> configure.ac and autogen.sh with autoconf related commands seem to be there.
<TheMuso> and a configure script
<crimsun_> hmm, cegui -> libcegui-mk2-dev ?
<TheMuso> ryanakca: According to the package you linked to abov.
<TheMuso> above
<TheMuso> damn typing
<TheMuso> ryanakca: Why not just use autoconf if building for Linux?
<ryanakca> autoconf? are you talking about autogen.sh?
<TheMuso> Yep.
<TheMuso> Looks like it is a bit messy atm anyway.
<TheMuso> Trying to work it out.
<ryanakca> kk... autogen.sh isn't supported anymore... they left that at 0.96 methinks... they now use scons, and autogen.sh doesn't work
<ryanakca> http://www.secretmaryo.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=107&sid=ea0840f3713ea219719bcdaaa183641d
<TheMuso> These guys don't know automake/autoconf if their lives depended on it.
<jmg> :)
<TheMuso> ok
<ryanakca> lol
<TheMuso> I can see why they changed to scons.
<TheMuso> Autoconf/automake can get quite hairy sometimes.
<jmg> we hates the automake
<jmg> i was quite tempted to rewrite kernel-package using rake
<TheMuso> Well if they really didn't support automake any more, you would think they'd rip it out of the package.
<LaserJock> dang, I'm going to need some sort of doc for this packaging with bzr stuff
<TheMuso> ryanakca: Where can I get a copy of that tgz package?
<ryanakca> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/smclone/smc-0.96-i486-1.tgz?download
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<ryanakca> np.. brb
<bddebian> Did we at least figure out what sdl package we need yet? :-)
<ryanakca> nope
<ryanakca> I installed all of them still same error
<TheMuso> ya
<TheMuso> THis is very interesting.
<TheMuso> ~luke@linden:~/Projects/Ubuntu_Development/dapper/sources/smc/tmp/usr/share/games/smc-0.96$ objdump -p smc | grep NEEDED NEEDED      libSDL_gfx.so.13 NEEDED      libSDL_ttf-2.0.so.0 NEEDED      libSDL_mixer-1.2.so.0 NEEDED      libSDL_image-1.2.so.0 NEEDED      libSDL-1.2.so.0 NEEDED      libpthread.so.0 NEEDED      libstdc++.so.5 NEEDED      libm.so.6 NEEDED      libgcc_s.so.1 NEEDED      libc.so.6
<Symgeosis> Oh wow, smclone is bad ass.
<bddebian> Yeah, so bad it doesn't even build ;-P
<crimsun_> it's worth noting that we have an outdated version of scons in Dapper.
<ryanakca> we do...
<ryanakca> ???
<jmg> Oh wow
<ryanakca> hmmm
<TheMuso> Shouldn't make a difference though.
<crimsun_> I can't for the life of me make scons spit out more $stuff
<crimsun_> but you can kludge the junk out of SConstruct by using conf.CheckCHeader() instead of conf.CheckLibWithHeader()
<ryanakca> hmmm... I pick easy packages as my first package, eh?
<bddebian> Yeah, nice one ;-)
<TheMuso> Funny thing is that INIT_VIDEO is in sdl.h
* TheMuso wonders whether patching autoconf to get it going again might be the better option. :)
<ryanakca> well...... If anybody wants to take over this packaging, feel free... because I have no clue what to do :)
* TheMuso patches Makefile.am for automake 1.4
<TheMuso> Ok, regenerated configure.
<TheMuso> Lets see what happens.
<ryanakca> I'm going to work on making an updated package for a simpler program... typespeed :)
<ryanakca> configure gives a "error: missing configure.in" or something simmilar
<TheMuso> Nope. I have got pas that.
<TheMuso> Just had to install libsdl-mixer1.2-dev
<ryanakca> well, see yah in the morning... dad's bugging me to go to bed... good luck, can't wait to hear how it went :)
<bddebian> Gnight ryanakca
<TheMuso> Night.
* bddebian wishes he could get this much help debugging the test scripts in git-core :-)
<TheMuso> heh
<ryanakca> lol
<bddebian> TheMuso: You got past checking for SDL_Init?
<crimsun_> getting past that check is easy
<TheMuso> Got config files made.
<TheMuso> Just trying to run make now. Missing command-line too needed for build.
<crimsun_> you just have to break SConstruct in interesting ways
<bddebian> heh
<crimsun_>         if not conf.CheckCHeader('SDL.h'):
<crimsun_> #       if not conf.CheckLibWithHeader('SDL', 'SDL.h', 'c', 'SDL_Init(SDL_INIT_VIDEO);'):
<crimsun_> you know, defeat the whole point of using scons in the first place :)
<bddebian> hehe
<TheMuso> haha
* bddebian decides to play Morrowind since he sucks
<LaserJock> bddebian: you don't suck at Morrowind?
<bddebian> LaserJock: I suck at everything
<LaserJock> bddebian: I doubt it
<LaserJock> I've never heard of Morrowind, I had to wikipedia it
<crimsun_> my opposite-day bddebian-translator is rockin'
<bddebian> Egads, you are a geek LaserJock ;-P
<bddebian> crimsun_: ?
<crimsun_> "I suck at everything" ==> "Please assign git-core bugs to me"
<bddebian> crimsun_: git-core is a port for GNU/Hurd and I can't fix it
<crimsun_> bddebian: hopefully using Debian's and not Ubuntu's...
<crimsun_> cos we're a tad behind in Dapper
<bddebian> Yes, Hurd is only Debian at the moment
<crimsun_> what? No Ubuntu HURD? Blasphemy!
<TheMuso> crimsun_: Did you get anywhere with that package?
<crimsun_> Hurd, rather
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah, the only game I've played in the last year was America's Army (because they had a linux version) but now that I've got the macintel I don't find that many games
<bddebian> I kept threatening it
<crimsun_> TheMuso: I can make it build, but it's so stupid I'd rather not do it that way.
<TheMuso> I know what you mean.
<bddebian> But the Debian guys don't want it and the GNU Zealots want a pure GNU system so it's pointless I suppose
<TheMuso> I have almost got the automake/autoconf functionality working. One thing I am accounting however is this:
<bddebian> Where the hell do the sdl libraries get installed?
<TheMuso> When I run make, for some reason the LIBS variable is being treated as a command after the first -
<TheMuso> If that makes sense.
<TheMuso> luke@linden:~/Projects/Ubuntu_Development/dapper/sources/smc/smc/src$ make
<TheMuso> lSDL_ttf -lSDL_mixer -lSDL_image  -L/usr/lib -lSDL -lpthread -lGL -lCEGUIBase -lCEGUIOpenGLRenderer
<TheMuso> make: lSDL_ttf: Command not found
<TheMuso> make: [smc]  Error 127 (ignored)
<TheMuso> luke@linden:~/Projects/Ubuntu_Development/dapper/sources/smc/smc/src$
<TheMuso> Which is this line in the Makefile: LIBS = -lSDL_ttf -lSDL_mixer -lSDL_image  -L/usr/lib -lSDL -lpthread -lGL -lCEGUIBase -lCEGUIOpenGLRenderer
<crimsun_> bddebian: /usr/lib/
<TheMuso> They say 1.7 for automake is required, but I did a dirty hack to Makefile.am for 1.4
<TheMuso> that might have something to do with that.
<bddebian> crimsun_: Aye, I was using libsdl not libSDL :-)
<bddebian> Told ya I was stupid
<TheMuso> Anybody know what automake call needs to be used in a configure.ac/in file for 1.7 as opposed to 1.4?
<bddebian> Ah, there is no libSDL-X.so
<bddebian> Gads, I am an idiot
<bddebian>  libSDL.so
<bddebian> Should work:
<bddebian> bdefreese@bdubuntu1:~/devel/smc$ objdump -T /usr/lib/libSDL.so |grep SDL_Init
<bddebian> 0000c500 g    DF .text  00000149  Base        SDL_InitSubSystem
<bddebian> 0000c649 g    DF .text  0000004f  Base        SDL_Init
<hub> can somebody review this: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2332
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee, welcome to my self-deprecation :-)
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian
<Hobbsee> why are you self depreciating now?
* Hobbsee hugs bddebian 
<bddebian> Because I'm dumb :-(
* bddebian hugs Hobbsee back (Thanks :-) )
* Hobbsee is the idiot today.
<Hobbsee> bddebian: why are you dumb??
<bddebian> I was born that way? :-)
<Hobbsee> heh
<TheMuso> bddebian: You know you really should stop that self knocking.
<bddebian> I wish I could :-)
<TheMuso> You can.
<bddebian> TheMuso: No, I can't.  Even the medication doesn't help :-)
<TheMuso> Sure sure.
* bddebian thinks TheMuso thinks he is kidding
<TheMuso> Whatever.
<TheMuso> Meh. smc can't be built atm because it needs a library file from the cegui-mk2 package that doesn't even exist in the Ubuntu version.
<TheMuso> Going to check the sid version, but guess it may be the same.
<Erlang> emmm, am I being silly or newest/oldest is reversed in launchpad?
<crimsun_> Erlang: it's reversed, it's known, fixed committed, just waiting for the next rollout of LP
<Erlang> crimsun_: Okay.  Just wanted to see if it was somewhat related to something I did.
<crimsun_> I asked the same thing last week :)
<imbrandon_> ajmitch ping
<ajmitch> yes?
<imbrandon_> oops sorry was in -devel
<imbrandon_> hey you were wondering about my forcedeth output right ?
<imbrandon_> i have to do this on every boot to make forcedeth work
<imbrandon_> http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/707888
<ajmitch> no, I've never asked you about it..
<imbrandon_> ahh sorry thought it was you
<imbrandon_> my mistake
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: back to studying :P
<ajmitch> hah, as if
<bddebian> Heh
<Hobbsee> hehe.
* Hobbsee makes a mental note to quote him on that
* Hobbsee throws a bucket of icy water at bddebian and ajmitch to liven up the channel
<bddebian> Nah, I think I have sufficiently annoyed the channel for tonight :-)
<Hobbsee> i thought that was my job.  to annoy people :P
<bddebian> Well regardless of popular opinion, I don't do it intentionally ;-)
<Hobbsee> hehe fair enough
<LaserJock> hmm
<Hobbsee> heya LaserJock - finished the documentation yet?
<LaserJock> ha ha ha, very funny :p
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<LaserJock> actually, I just installed Enemy Territory on my macintel for the heck of it
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: documentation is your job
<crimsun_> oh great, now the documentation won't be finished in the next few years
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no it isnt. my job is to just annoy everyone.
<ajmitch> oh right
* Hobbsee isnt interested much in writing...
* Hobbsee has done far too much english
<ajmitch> that's ok
<ajmitch> you don't have to be interested, you just have to do it
<LaserJock> bah, ET isn't nearlly as fun as hanging out here :-/
<ajmitch> heh
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: were you volunteering for it?
<ajmitch> volunteering you for it :)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> dream on :P
<LaserJock> ugh, compilers and kernel removal, can't we get something exciting on -devel? :-)
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> maybe I should write a "We should move to rpm" to shake it up a bit
<TheMuso> lol
<bddebian> Yeah
<LaserJock> ack, I'm going home. I've got a 5:00 am Edubuntu meeting tomorrow
<bddebian> Gnight LaserJock
<LaserJock> cya all
<Hobbsee> night LaserJock
<ajmitch> bye LaserJock
<crimsun_> he'll be playing ET til 5:00 AM
<bddebian> hehe
<imbrandon_> lol
* Hobbsee has never played ET :(
* imbrandon_ dosent even know what ET is other than a little short alien that makes a phone out of a speak and spell
<imbrandon_> interstellar phone at that
<imbrandon_> ;)
<Hobbsee> damned exploits.
<Hobbsee> i thought people were over using it.
<imbrandon_> ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: #ubuntu
<Hobbsee> an idiot wanting a kline.
<imbrandon_> ah
<imbrandon_> i rarely look at #ubuntu its about the only irc channel i cant keep up with
<imbrandon_> #kubuntu is busy enough at times
<imbrandon_> ;)
<TheMuso> #ubuntu is very hard to follow most of the time IMO.
<imbrandon_> yea
<Hobbsee> that's why they have calls  of !ops - otherwise i wouldnt be there
<bddebian> Ah well, gnight folks
<Gloubiboulga> hello world!
<Hobbsee> hey Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hey Hobbsee :)
<Laser_away> crimsun_: no, I played it for about 30 min. and had enough
<ajmitch> hehe
<crimsun_> that's what you say now. See? Still awake. I'll check at 4:00 AM.
<ajmitch> but you couldn't resist playing it still...
<Laser_away> ajmitch: I wanted to see if an intel iMac was any good for games
<Laser_away> it seemed fine, I on the other hand ...
<ajmitch> that's what they all say...
<Laser_away> heh, really, as long as I'm not burned out, I really enjoy Ubuntu work more
<Laser_away> anybody know what mvo's TZ is?
<ajmitch> Laser_away: UTC+2
<Laser_away> ajmitch: ah, ok. thnx
<dholbach> good morning motu world
<Hobbsee> heya dholbach
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<dholbach> ooooh: http://scsharp.org/
<dholbach> that's something for the motugames team!
<Hobbsee> ooh.  games.  something else to distract me from study...
<dholbach> package it!
<dholbach> DOIT! :)
<crimsun_> I think I'm going to ignore stuff that begins with "sc" given the fright over SConstruct and that crazy secretmaryo thing.
<Hobbsee> no!!!
<Hobbsee> hehe
<dholbach> crimsun_: _S_tar _C_raft :)
<DarkMageZ> dholbach, how far along is that project? have they got units working yet?
<dholbach> DarkMageZ: I heard of it 5 minutes ago
<dholbach> DarkMageZ: and I won't have the time today to build it, look hours for my old starcraft CD to get it going
<Toadstool> 'morning motus
<Hobbsee> heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi Hobbsee
<Gloubiboulga> hmm... a google-earth package on REVU
<dholbach> yay - more wine versions in the archive! :)
<azeem> I thought it was a native port
<azeem> somebody said it wouldn't be using wine, at least
<ogra> i heard the same ...
<Hobbsee> hi ogra
<ogra> woah, that package is horrible ...
<DarkMageZ> ooo, where can i find the horrible google earth package :)
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: revu?
<DarkMageZ> it's a repo i'm guessing
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: it's at http://revu.tauware.de/
* Hobbsee kicks her connectoin, being slow to load revu
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: it's a place where devs upload packages to be reviewed and to go into the ubuntu repos
<DarkMageZ> your connection is innocent for a change :P
* DarkMageZ bookmarks
<Hobbsee> oh here we go
<Hobbsee> oh, nice, someone uploaded kopete.
<Gloubiboulga> no copyright of course for the google earth thing
<truls> hey
<Mithrandir> hello, truls
<truls> trying to package a python-application we're developing for debian/ubuntu, and been hitting some problems
<truls> (first of all the lack of good practices to follow)
<LaserJock> truls: have you seen the Ubuntu Packaging Guide?
<truls> any pointers to a good way of doing it? been fiddling with distutils as the obvious choice, but it doesn't seem suited for programs wanting to end up in /usr/lib/myprogram while keeping its hope of multiplatform...
<truls> LaserJock: yeah, so i got the impression that debhelper with cdbs is the way to go, but that requires a standard distutils setup (or atleast that was my impression)
<zul> hola
<LaserJock> hi zul
<zul> hey LaserJock how goes it?
<LaserJock> uggh, it's early, but I'm kinda up at least. How 'bout you?
<zul> same here...but not so up
<Toadstool> hi
<Toadstool> hum about python packages should the upcoming Debian python policy followed for edgy? I suppose so since I've seen a python-defaults upload made by doko...
<LaserJock> I would guess so
<doko> Toadstool: yes, when the archive opens ...
<Toadstool> ok thanks LaserJock & doko
<LaserJock> Toadstool: what's the "upcoming" part about?
<Toadstool> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<kelmo> gday
<LaserJock> hi kelmo
<kelmo> hey LaserJock
<kelmo> hi siretart
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi LaserJock
<TheMuso> Hey bddebian.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Got everything finalized for the trip
<bddebian> Hello TheMuso
<Hobbsee> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<TheMuso> Didn't see you there. :)
* Hobbsee is studying in the background
<Hobbsee> and trying to stay out of the way to not get yelled at.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: umm, I sure hope so
<TheMuso> Ok.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I need to get some euros before I go though
<TheMuso> When do you fly out?
<LaserJock> Sat. noonish
<bddebian> Hobbsee: You got yelled at? :'-(
<Hobbsee> bddebian: yeah, earlier :(
<LaserJock> wha?
<LaserJock> no way
<TheMuso> And when do you get into Paris?
<LaserJock> umm, 11ish Sun.
<TheMuso> Ah right.
<TheMuso> You've got a longish flight like me. :)
<LaserJock> well, the time change effects a lot
<LaserJock> the longest stretch (Houston to Paris) is 9hrs of flying, I think
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> I worked out that I will be traveling for 27 hours and 45 minutes all up, assuming everything goes to time.
<LaserJock> yikes
<bddebian> Yikes
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<LaserJock> I'm flowing the other way :-)
<TheMuso> Lucky you.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: well, on the way back, let's see ...
<TheMuso> heh
<LaserJock> dang it, for being a scientist TZ math sure confuses me
<TheMuso> TZ maths is the easiest of them all IMO. :)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: that's why they invented timezone clocks.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: yeah, it's the easy stuff that get's us ;-)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: yeah, whatever
* Hobbsee used to know timezones.  then daylight savings hit.  then it unhit.  and i got horribly lost, and just used the timezone clock.
<TheMuso> Anyway, better get to bed.
<TheMuso> Night all.
<LaserJock> cya TheMuso
<neutrinomass> Was there an update to launchpad in the past couple of hours? Apparently you can't change a bug's importance without confirming it first ....
<lifeless> that seems interesting
<lifeless> yes there was a rollout
<neutrinomass> Bah. I suppose nobody will mind if I confirm my own .desktop bugs (I attach a .desktop as well ) ?
<lifeless> if you join #launchpad you can chat with bjornt and bradb who develope malone
<neutrinomass> I'm under the impression that it's a feature, not a bug .. I'll try #launchpad
<LaserJock> lifeless: do you work on the bazaar.launchpad.net stuff?
<lifeless> LaserJock: some
<LaserJock> awesome
<agileII> ...
<agileII> someone alive here?
<bddebian> Nope :-)
<agileII> ok :)
<agileII> I was pointed to this channel to make someone work...
<agileII> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/loop-aes-source/+bug/48693
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48693 in loop-aes-source "loop-aes-source can't be build by m-a" [Medium,Rejected] 
<bddebian> Ah, good luck with that one
<bddebian> I looked at it at one point
<agileII> why?
<agileII> I assigned it to MOTU reviewers also
<agileII> the Debian needs to be get again
<agileII> Debian code
<bddebian> It's very difficult to keep up with the kernel changes
<agileII> there is just a "x" bit missing in /debian/rules in the .tar.gz somewhere...
<agileII> the Debian code is fixed regarding to the maintainer
<bddebian> I will see if I can take a look but it may or may not get accepted to dapper-updates
<agileII> ok, Thx
<agileII> Well I have solved it for myself, but other people will ask for it
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
<LaserJock> I got apache to work at home
<LaserJock> \o/
<bddebian> LaserJock: Ahhh :-)
<LaserJock> not that it was tough or anything
<LaserJock> I've just never run any kind of server before
<zul> it shouldnt be
<LaserJock> is it reasonably secure by default?
<LaserJock> I didn't adjust anything
<Yagisan> LaserJock: relatively secure. No dynamic pages ? No CGI ?
<LaserJock> Yagisan: umm, I haven't added anything yet, I did install the python mod
* Yagisan wonders why he is writing configure.ac files at 3am
<LaserJock> hmm
<Yagisan> LaserJock: then it's fine
<chantra> hi, can anyone tell me why a package didn't make it into revu pls
<bddebian> Yagisan: Because you are sick? :-)
<LaserJock> chantra: you need to explain more
<Erlang> chantra: you uploaded it as binary?
<chantra> I wanted to updated gaim-2.0.0beta3, but it is still an older version (May02)
<Yagisan> gremlins!
<chantra> dput *2ubuntu2*changes
<chantra> LaserJock: Erlang or something similar
<Erlang> Erlang or something similar??
<Yagisan> bddebian: yeah - I'm sick. I should get you to give it a once over then
<bddebian> Me?
<chantra> dput -P  *2ubuntu2*changes
<chantra> Erlang: to be more specific :)
<Yagisan> bddebian: sure. I figure it must be day time where you are, so you should have no trouble with it
<LaserJock> chantra: you might want to specically call the particular _source.changes file
<LaserJock> chantra: we don't want all your .debs ;-)
<bddebian> Yagisan: Ah :)
<Erlang> chantra: I meant that you need to dput the *source.changes and not the [architecture] .changes.
<chantra> LaserJock: Erlang cheers, I did dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S -kmykey but I only get and old source.changes
<chantra>  ls ../*changes
<chantra> ../gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu0_i386.changes    ../gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu1_i386.changes
<chantra> ../gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu0_source.changes  ../gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu2_i386.changes
<LaserJock> chantra: so did you do dpkg-buildpackage in the right source?
<Yagisan> bddebian: of course, there was that wiki page about you
<chantra> yep gaim-2.0.0beta3
<bddebian> Yagisan: Yes, but that is all wrong.. :)
<LaserJock> chantra: I mean, check the changelog in debia/ to make sure you building what you think you are :-0
<LaserJock> :-) I mean
<Yagisan> bddebian: lies. we know it's true. That's why you can spot all my errors in my autoconfiscated application ;)
<chantra> gaim (2:2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu2) dapper; urgency=low
<chantra> * Added DBUS support * --enable-dbus
<chantra> this is the first entry
<bddebian> Yagisan: You are obviously on crack ;-)
<LaserJock> chantra: try it again and make sure that dpkg-buildpackage finished
<bddebian> How the hell can attal depend attal-themes-medieval and attal-themes-medieval depend attal when one of them has to be installed first?
<LaserJock> bddebian: isn't that called circular dependency?
<bddebian> Usually but I think it installs currently
<azeem> bddebian: why has one of them to be installed first?
<bddebian> azeem: Because if I try to install the themes it says attal is not installed/configured and vice versa
<azeem> install via apt-get?
<Yagisan> bddebian: close. I have so much sugar in my system it's not funny.
<Yagisan> bddebian: at least I made nice error messages "configure: error: "SDL Net not found. On Ubuntu install libsdl-net1.2-dev."" of course, I got that because I missed on of these -> ,
<Kyral_FreeBSD> hey guys, just a notice, there is a new version of Mod Security out, Debian doesn't have it so may wanna jump on it :D
<chantra> LaserJock: there is something I don't understand
<chantra> while compiling gaim debs, if I have got the orig.tar.gz file, i get the following error
<chantra> /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/buildcore.mk:70: Parsing gaim-2.0.0beta3.tar.bz2... dpkg-source -b gaim-2.0.0beta3
<chantra> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to gaim-2.0.0beta3.tar.bz2: binary file contents changed
<chantra> should I use a gaim....orig.tar.bz2 instead?
<LaserJock> chantra: hmm, I'm wondering if you are trying to create a native package
<chantra> what do you mean?
<LaserJock> do you get a .diff.gz file?
<chantra> yep
<chantra> gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu2.diff.gz
<chantra> it basically contains the information from debian/
<LaserJock> hmm
<bddebian> azeem: This is dpkg -i so might be the problem
<bddebian> Shit, meeting, bbiab
<azeem> bddebian: yeah, apt should handle it fine
<azeem> or dpkg -i <both .debs>
<blanky> ehy guys
<LaserJock> hi blanky
<blanky> if I'd like to create an application for ubuntu, what GUI toolkit should I use, or is there no recommendation, becuase I figured GTK would look a lot more integrated, as well as for the Xubuntu users, however, in KDE, Qt would seem a bit more adequate, then there's WxWidgets. I'm fine with any, just wondering if there was a recommendatoin
<LaserJock> blanky: pick one that you are comfortable with? If it is designed for Gnome use GTK, KDE use QT
<blanky> LaserJock, it's designed for any environment, and I am fine with any, I was just wondering if it was recommended or asked to do it in GTK since it'd seem more integrated, thanks anyways
<LaserJock> blanky: well, I'm sure Kubuntu users would appreciate a qt interface
<blanky> LaserJock, exactly, but I figure there's more Ubuntu/GNOME users
* Yagisan notes that *ubuntu works fine with a curses interface
<blanky> Or I could do it in GTK first, and then port it to whatever other GUI toolkit if there's enough demand
<LaserJock> blanky: will it use other apps? do you want it integrated in the DE?
<Yagisan> blanky: your app. *NIX only ?
<blanky> Yagisan, yep
<siretart> Yagisan: there is a even gtk2 port for windows
<Yagisan> siretart: yep. but IIRC qt was not free on WIn32
<LaserJock> siretart: yeah, gtk2 apps aren't to bad on Windows, not so good in OS X
<Yagisan> blanky: A project I'm involved with chose WxWidgets, but it "runs" on *NIX, Win32 and OSX
<Yagisan> blanky: pick which you prefer
<hub> LaserJock: gtk on MacOS X is incomplete
<blanky> Yagisan, yeah I know, but my program is *nix specific
<blanky> Yagisan, okay
<hub> LaserJock: the main dev stopped working on it
<LaserJock> hub: exactly ;-)
<LaserJock> hub: I use fink
<hub> and X11
<siretart> Yagisan: IIRC this changed in the past. but any, I don't care too much for windows, and blanky doesn't seem to either
<hub> LaserJock: I'm talking of the non-X11 port
<LaserJock> hub: right
<Yagisan> siretart: yep. that's why any choice is fine
<blanky> Ah okay, which do you all prefer?
<LaserJock> pygtk, for now
<blanky> It's not that I can't decide, it's just that if people would like to develop for it, I would like it to be a GUI toolkit they prefer
<crimsun_> ncurses++
<blanky> LaserJock, thanks for the niput
<blanky> lol crimsun_
<LaserJock> but I'm not a programmer so my vote doesn't count very much
<LaserJock> crimsun_: I'm with you man, but kids these days..
<LaserJock> ;-)
<siretart> blanky: in ubuntu/xubuntu land, gtk2 is prefferred. in kubuntu land qt. take your pill :)
<blanky> siretart, I know that, haha. And I prefer Kubuntu, however, this program is intended for noobies and I believe that they, well, most people use Ubuntu
<blanky> I'm choosing GTK :)
* Yagisan was hoping to see a vote for Xlib
<LaserJock> blanky: there are a lot of Kubuntu users out there
<LaserJock> yeah, whatever
<chantra> LaserJock: okie, got the error sorted out
<blanky> lol
<BazziR> blanky: yeah GTK in Kubuntu looks better than Qt in Gnome I think
<siretart> blanky: it doesn't matter too much. look at both, and choose what suits you better. if you are programming python, I have the vague impression that pygtk might be easier to find documentation for than pyqt
<blanky> BazziR, yeah, from my experience. GTK handles well in KDE
<blanky> siretart, true, thanks all
<LaserJock> blanky: do both!
<blanky> haha, will do after I get one down first
<LaserJock> see wich one you like
<hub> blanky: gtkmm then :-)
<chantra> in fact, using cdbs , the pkg_version.orig.tar.gz, once unpacked, contains pkg_version.orig/pkg-version.tar.bz2
<chantra> I dont know if it is related to cdbs or not
<LaserJock> hmm
<chantra> LaserJock: this is how the original package was made:
<chantra>  tar -xzvf gaim_1.5.0+1.5.1cvs20051015.orig.tar.gz
<chantra> gaim-1.5.0+1.5.1cvs20051015.orig/
<chantra> gaim-1.5.0+1.5.1cvs20051015.orig/gaim-1.5.0+1.5.1cvs20051015.tar.bz2
<LaserJock> k
<chantra> and this doesn't send errors, so I believe this is the way to do it :s
<LaserJock> bah, why is mvo never around when I need him!
<LaserJock> I hate time zones!
<chantra> bad luck ;)
<LaserJock> anybody know how to clear package listed with dpkg --yet-to-unpack ?
<chantra> LaserJock: apt-get -f install ?
<chantra> or dpkg --configure -a
<LaserJock> I don't want to install it, I want to get rid of it :-)
<chantra> LaserJock: I did dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot  -kBCF1FC29
<chantra> and dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa -kBCF1FC29
<chantra> and still no source.*
<chantra> ls ../*2ubuntu3*
<chantra> ../gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu3.diff.gz  ../gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu3_i386.changes  ../gaim-data_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu3_all.deb
<chantra> ../gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu3.dsc      ../gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu3_i386.deb      ../gaim-dev_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu3_i386.deb
<chantra> do you have any idea
<LaserJock> where is the .orig.tar.gz?
<chantra> LaserJock: apt-get remove mypackage ? doesnt work?
<LaserJock> no, because it wasn't installed
<chantra> ls ../*orig*
<chantra> ../gaim_2.0.0beta3.orig.tar.gz
<chantra> basically, same place
<sladen> ] 
<crimsun_> (wouldn't you want to use 1:2.0.0+beta3-4 from experimental as a base?)
<chantra> I used 1:1.5...... as a base
<crimsun_> that's bound to cause [more]  headaches
<crimsun_> I'd start with 1:2.0.0+beta3-4 as given here: http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gaim.html
<Kyral_FreeBSD> gah making things portable is a PAIN
<Kyral_FreeBSD> some distros put some things in one place others in another...kinda a bitch when you are trying to hardcode pathnames
<crimsun_> that's why you program for Hurd. Oh wait, you want it to run...
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Its not for Hurd
<crimsun_> why are you hardcoding paths...?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> so I KNOW for sure that what I want is what I'm getting
<LaserJock> Kyral_FreeBSD: hardcoding paths is from SATAN!
<Kyral_FreeBSD> LaserJock: its also secure
<Kyral_FreeBSD> for commands
* Kyral_FreeBSD is on a security kick :P
<crimsun_> if you're relying on hardcoded paths for security, that's an awful way to go...
<Kyral_FreeBSD> also resetting PATH to something known
<Kyral_FreeBSD> and the IFS
<Kyral_FreeBSD> So like I KNOW what PATH contains
<LaserJock> heh, I'm not much into security
<LaserJock> I try, but it just isn't my thing
<Kyral_FreeBSD> LaserJock: neither was I, until I "inherited" a production server
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Writing insecure shell scripts for myself is one thing
<Kyral_FreeBSD> writing them for someone else is somethign I cannot do
<LaserJock> well, I guess my problem is when security gets in the way of productivity, I mean ideally you disconnect the server from the net and put it in a locked room or something
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Well I can't do that :P
<LaserJock> but if what you are doing makes it very difficult to change anything then it might be a problem
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Well the hardcoded paths are pretty much where they normally are
<Kyral_FreeBSD> ie, grep is normally in /bin/brep
<Kyral_FreeBSD> err
<LaserJock> sure ;-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> s/brep/grep :D
<Kyral_FreeBSD> then in the shell script itself I reset PATH and IFS
<LaserJock> yeah, there you go. make it more secure by changing the names of all the binaries. then nobody will know how to do anything ;-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> ..you do know invoking "/bin/grep" is the same as invoking "grep"
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> if /bin/ is before any other paths containing a grep
<Kyral_FreeBSD> This is why I reset PATH :P
<LaserJock> hmm, well it doesn't seem to me that it would get you much of anywhere, but have at it :-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Better than nothing
<Kyral_FreeBSD> look at the system install cronjobs, they hardcode the paths too
<bddebian> Shite, so how do I test these damn attal packages that depend on each other?
<Tonio_> heya
<ryanakca> LaserJock: bddebian: crimsun_: How did it go?
<bddebian> ryanakca: I gave up, sorry :-(
<ryanakca> lol, thanks for the help...
<ryanakca> I gave up as well :)
<crimsun_> ryanakca: it went fine, but I'm not about to say "here, take these changes to SConstruct that neuter the very reason for using it in the first place"
<chantra> i dont get it
<ryanakca> :)
<ryanakca> I'm confused
<chantra> if I do dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa
<chantra> I get a source.changes file created
<chantra> then if I dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<chantra> ce source.changes disappear
<crimsun_> i.e., I'm pretty sure there's a reason conf.CheckCHeader() is not used when one actually does want to test the presence of the libs. :)
<ryanakca> meh... I'll stick to a... simpler... packaging thingy
<chantra> and I get tis:
<chantra>  dpkg-genchanges -S -sa
<chantra> dpkg-genchanges: including full source code in upload
<chantra> dpkg-buildpackage: source only upload (original source is included)
<chantra> Merged changes with ../gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu3_source.changes
<chantra>  signfile ../gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu3_i386.changes
<chantra> can someone help me out on this pls
<Sp4rKy> hi
<bddebian> Heya Sp4rKy
<Sp4rKy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Maxence <== do you think i can hope become an Ubuntu member ?
<bddebian> ryanakca: I don't think the packaging is necessarily more difficult, just the package itself
<bddebian> crimsun_: Hey, how come you never help me?? :'-(
<ryanakca> heh
<Sp4rKy> hi bddebian
<crimsun_> bddebian: *cough* ivtools, mxv *cough*
<bddebian> crimsun_: No, you didn't HELP me there, you just did it ;-P
<crimsun_> pfft
<chantra> can anyone help me out building the *source.changes file pls
<ryanakca> hmmm... what package provides dh_installman  ? http://pastebin.ca/65586
<crimsun_> ryanakca: note the dh_ prefix...
<bddebian> ryanakca: debhelper
<bddebian> crimsun_: Do you know how I can test attal/attal-themes co-dependency?
<crimsun_> bddebian: I haven't looked at either, so I'm not prepared to answer in the affirmative.
<bddebian> crimsun_: I mean in general, how do I test two packages that depend on each other?
<ryanakca> very very strange http://pastebin.ca/65588
<bddebian> ryanakca: What's strange about that?
<crimsun_> bddebian: what do you mean by "test"?
<bddebian> Well dpkg -i won't resolve the dependencies like apt would
<ryanakca> ok, look at the error, it says that a file called /usr/bin/dh_installman     doesn't exist, yet, in the ls /usr/bin/dh_installm*, it shows up
<bddebian> Oh, I missed the first pastbin sorry
<bddebian> No, it is saying you don't have typespeed.1
<crimsun_> bddebian: I presume you're installing them both (passing them both to dpkg -i )?
<ryanakca> oh... I thought it said that when compiling/running/whatever typespeed.1 it couldn't find dh_installman
<LaserJock> quick OT question, anybody have a preference for berlios over sourceforge for project hosting?
<crimsun_> I don't have the stats to back me, but sf seems to be unreachable more consistently than berlios.
<Kyral_FreeBSD> or just fire up your own server :P
<Kyral_FreeBSD> It will be an excellent exercise in security
<LaserJock> yeah, I want stability and features :-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Debian-Administration (or was it HowtoForge) has an excellent Apache+SVN Howto
<crimsun_> tack on trac, and you've got a winner.
<Kyral_FreeBSD> trac?
<pygi> Kyral, Trac is the best ;)
<crimsun_> Then again, if you're like me, the older and cruftier you grow, the less time you wish to spend maintaining servers.
<LaserJock> well, we're using bzr so the SVN isn't really a selling point
<Kyral_FreeBSD> what is trac?
<crimsun_> well if you're using bzr, why not just use ... LP?
<LaserJock> crimsun_: well, LP is great for bzr and bugs, but not so much for file hosting, web site, etc. I don't think
<Kyral_FreeBSD> wait LP provides BZR now?
<crimsun_> Kyral_FreeBSD: http://packages.ubuntu.com/trac
<pygi> Kyral_FreeBSD, right :)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> hmm
<Kyral_FreeBSD> might as well, saves me the hassle of setting up bugtracking
<LaserJock> bazaar.launchpad.net
<pygi> crimsun_, we are still on 0.9.3? :-/
* Kyral_FreeBSD doesn't know what makes Bazaar different from SVN but oh well
<LaserJock> Kyral_FreeBSD: lots
<pygi> distributed vs. central
<bddebian> crimsun_: Yes
<crimsun_> pygi: (edgy hasn't opened for syncs yet ;-)
* Kyral_FreeBSD blinks stupidly
<pygi> crimsun_, bleh :P
<crimsun_> (or in this case, merge)
<ryanakca> I know when making packages, the app is to be installed to /usr/bin, and not /usr/local... but would man pages still go to /usr/local/man, or is there a "ubuntu package" directory for man pages?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I always meant to register SHCD with LP for cheap bugtracking, but I also always intended to have my own SVN
<Kyral_FreeBSD> for other purposes (CompSci homework anyone? :D)
<bddebian> ryanakca: dh_installmake should put it in the appropriate dirs for you
<bddebian> s/make/man
<ryanakca> kk... but I'm editing the Makefile atm...
<bddebian> Why?
<ryanakca> before remaking the package...
<bddebian> If install puts it in the wrong place, mv it in the rules file before running dh_installman
<ryanakca> kk
<chantra> how do you guy create a source.changes files?
<chantra> using -S -sa switch doesn't work for me
<bddebian> chantra: Why aren't you using debuild or dpkg-buildpackage with -S -sa?
<sladen> chantra: go into the directory and do  debuild -S
<crimsun_> bddebian: what is failing?
<bddebian> crimsun_: If I just install attal it fails because it depends on attal-themes-medieval and vice versa
<crimsun_> bddebian: err, I thought you were using ``dpkg -i attal[foo] .deb attal-themes-medieval[foo] .deb'' ...?
<bddebian> I tried that too, same error
<ryanakca> hmmm... rules is looking for typespeed.1, but there's only typespeed.6. Do I cp typespeed.6 to typespeed.1, or ln -s them, or edit the rules file to typespeed.6   ?
<crimsun_> bddebian: any clues from dpkg -D3773 -i [..]  ?
<chantra> bddebian: using dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa -kmykey
<chantra> Merged changes with ../gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu3_source.changes
<bddebian> chantra: Huh?
<bddebian> crimsun_: Trying now, thx
<chantra> bddebian: compiling and signing the debs file runs fine
<chantra> but dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa -kmykey
<crimsun_> chantra: is there any reason you're not basing off the experimental package?
<chantra> does not create the sourcechanges
<chantra> crimsun_: because I used the 1.5cvs version from dapper in the first place
<crimsun_> chantra: seb already rolled beta 3 debs for Dapper...
<crimsun_> chantra: so if you were to make new ones, either use /that/ src, or use debian experimental's
<chantra> crimsun_: is there bonjour+meanwhile+dbus support ?
<crimsun_> chantra: no clue, I don't use gaim
<pygi> crimsun_, any idea when merges will be open? :)
<crimsun_> pygi: I think the rule of thumb is "everytime you ask, the opening is delayed two weeks"
<bddebian> Doh
<chantra> crimsun_: where can I get seb's package?
<pygi> crimsun_, bleh :P
<chantra> crimsun_: anyway, that did not resolve my problem
<crimsun_> chantra: # deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/deb ./
<chantra> source.changes is not created :s
<crimsun_> chantra: err, I don't remember suggesting a resolution...?
<chantra> crimsun_: that is where my problem is :p
<crimsun_> chantra: I'm not sure what "that" refers to, then
<chantra> crimsun_: seb doesn't offer deb-src :s
<bddebian> Uhm, -D3773 spits out just a LITTLE output ;-)
<crimsun_> chantra: it's all in that dir, dude
<chantra>  < chantra> how do you guy create a source.changes files?
<chantra> 22:01 < chantra> using -S -sa switch doesn't work for me
<crimsun_> bddebian: just a bit
<chantra> crimsun_: cheers sorry for that
<crimsun_> np
<bddebian> Ack did pastebin move?
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<bddebian> crimsun_: I don't think this is telling me much I don't already know?  http://pastebin.ca/65601
<ryanakca> hmmm... rules is looking for typespeed.1, but there's only typespeed.6. Do I cp typespeed.6 to typespeed.1, or ln -s them, or edit the rules file to typespeed.6   ?
<chantra> well, I still cant get how to create that bloody source.changes :s
<Sp4rKy> why a dpkg-buildbackage doesn't create any diff file :/
<Erlang> Sp4rKy: when the package is debian-native
<Sp4rKy> Erlang, i've create debian/ rep myself !
<Erlang> so?  it can still be native.  if dpkg-buildpackage doesn't find the orig he won't be able to make a diff.
<eugman> Hey, if I hypothetically had a program, what would I have to do in order for it to be added to the universe repositories.
<Sp4rKy> Erlang, it should find it
<bddebian> You would hypothetically get someone to package it up and post it on REVU :-)
<Erlang> Sp4rKy: make sure he does.  it's at the start of the process.
<pygi> bddebian, or just poke someone to sponsor upload :P
<eugman> ok
<pygi> (me is joking, ofcourse :P)
<bddebian> :-)
<crimsun_> bddebian: that's just odd. dpkg -i is supposed to work given you pass all necessary debs to it explicitly.
<bddebian> Aye, I am way confused
<crimsun_> bddebian: this may be a stupid question, but is the version >= 0.10-0ubuntu1 ?
<bddebian> Yes
<bddebian> Well, version of which?
<crimsun_> of both.
<bddebian> No
<crimsun_> ok, so what are the versions?
<bddebian> But versioned dep is >=
<crimsun_> (versions you're attempting to install)
<bddebian> attal_0.10-0ubuntu2_i386.deb  attal-themes-medieval_0.10-0ubuntu1_all.deb
<crimsun_> both generated from the same src package? What's debian/control{,.in}?
<bddebian> crimsun_: No, two different packages
<bddebian> In fact the themse are pure CVS
<crimsun_> bddebian: I presume it'll work across --force-depends, but is there any Conflicts/Replaces junk?
<bddebian> No.  The themes package is very slight
<bddebian> Aye --force-depends seems to have worked
<ryanakca> anybody?
<crimsun_> bddebian: -themes{,-*} isn't/aren't essential, is it/are they?
<crimsun_> bddebian: i.e., I tend to weigh strongly upstream debian/control, but if -themes{,-*} aren't essential to attal's function, then I'd demote -themes{,-*} to Recommends to break the circular dependency
<bddebian> crimsun_: I don't think the game plays without at least one theme installed but I'm not sure
<phanatic> evening
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<ryanakca> rules is looking for typespeed.1, but there's only typespeed.6 . Do I cp typespeed.6 to typespeed.1, or ln -s them, or edit the rules file to typespeed.6   ?   http://pastebin.ca/65586
<crimsun_> ryanakca: sections are pretty firm
<Sp4rKy> how could i do when diff contains some information about the Makefile modifications  , is it normal ?
<crimsun_> ryanakca: edit debian/rules
<ryanakca> meaning...
<bddebian> ryanakca: Edit the rules file
<ryanakca> kk
<ryanakca> ty
<bddebian> NP
<bddebian> crimsun_: Would you mind if I /query you for a sec?
<crimsun_> Sp4rKy: you can omit (cf. filterdiff) Makefile (but not Makefile.{in,am} !) diff if autotools are used
<crimsun_> bddebian: nope
<crimsun_> Sp4rKy: (the rationale being that Makefile will be regenerated anyhow)
<bddebian> Nope you wouldn't mind or nope please don't? :-)
<Sp4rKy> crimsun_, in fact it was generated with qmake :/
<crimsun_> bddebian: nope I don't mind (since your question asked whether I mind) :)
<bddebian> qmake? Ugh
* bddebian shudders
<blanky> qmake is cool
<crimsun_> better than secretmaryo+scons
<blanky> sup crimsun_
<bddebian> crimsun_: Bah.. :-)
<crimsun_> blanky: just working, you?
<blanky> same, stuck with pygtk
<bddebian> What is a quick and dirty way to delete all the CVS dirs from all sub-dirs?
<crimsun_> find(1)
<bddebian> Well I know I can do find ./ -name CVS but how do I feed that to rm ?
<bddebian> I suck at regexp
<crimsun_> -exec rm -rf '{}' ';'   or  |xargs rm -rf
<ryanakca> do games in packages install to /usr/games/* or /usr/bin?
<crimsun_> ryanakca: the former, purportedly
<bddebian> crimsun_: find ./ -name CVS |xargs rm -rf ?
* bddebian feels stupid again
<crimsun_> bddebian: sure
<ryanakca> ty
<bddebian> Kick ass, thanks crimsun_
<crimsun_> np
<blanky> hey guys, in ubuntu, what's the command to search for files of a certain format, "format:elf" for example?
<ryanakca> I know how to in konqueror... just not the command...
<blanky> ryanakca, oh well thanks an
<blanky> *man
<ryanakca> umm...       find * / | grep *.doc
<ryanakca> try that
<blanky> ryanakca, lol me? I meant in google, like when you search for something, and you want the results in a certain format
<ryanakca> well... it would list the files in /, and then grep would display the ones ending in *.doc
<ryanakca> in google, I don't know
<blanky> lol, thanks
<phanatic> raphink: thanks for posting my comment to revu :)
<raphink> you're welcome phanatic
<bddebian> "See" you in a few folks
<LaserJock> oh my, bug #49768
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 49768 in edubuntu-meta "Installing Windows xp" [Untriaged,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49768
<bddebian> LaserJock: You can have it :-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Comment: *CENSORED* ;P
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-15
<ryanakca> hmmm... when building typespeed's .dsc, I get this error (scroll down to the end, the rest is just to help you help me) http://pastebin.ca/65641
<TheMuso> Have you tried building it normally? i.e not in pbuilder?
<ryanakca> make, make install, etc?
<ryanakca> yeah, it installs
<TheMuso> No, dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<ryanakca> from the source dir?
<TheMuso> The problem is in the debian rules file it seems.
<TheMuso> Yep.
<TheMuso> It seems the problem is to do with dh_fixperms being run.
<TheMuso> Or a problem that dh_fixperms is encountering.
<ryanakca> same error
<ryanakca> my rules file : http://pastebin.ca/65642
<TheMuso> Ok. The reason it is not working is because no package files are actually being installed.
<ryanakca> ??
<TheMuso> How did you create the debian/rules file?
<TheMuso> Ok. What is currently in the debian/ directory?
<ryanakca> dh_make, and I changed "dh_installman typespeed.1" to "dh_installman typespeed.6" in the rules
<ryanakca> wait, no, that's not true...
<ryanakca> I copied the rules file from the old 4.4 typespeed's source....
<ryanakca> dh_make and I copied the files from the old source...
<TheMuso> Right.
<ryanakca> http://pastebin.ca/65645
<ryanakca> lol...
<ryanakca> I'm following http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
<TheMuso> ok
<zul> hey
<TheMuso> Hey zul.
<zul> hey TheMuso
<ryanakca> any ideas?
<TheMuso> Not really.
<TheMuso> Is the contents of the debian dir that you showed me right after the failed build?
<TheMuso> from right after the failed build I should say.
<ryanakca> yes,
<ryanakca> I made the .dsc, and then I didn't touch it...
<TheMuso> Right.
<ryanakca> touch the debian/    ... I'm not being specific, I know :)
<TheMuso> Well I gotta go and grab some breakfast to help me think. :)
<TheMuso> Be back in a little while.
<ryanakca> kk
<ryanakca> lol, 6:39 PM out here... just had supper :)
<TheMuso> 8:42 AM in Sydney here. :)
<TheMuso> ryanakca: Ok I am back. Have you tried anything else?
<ryanakca> when building typespeed's .dsc, I get this error (scroll down to the end, the rest is just to help you help me) http://pastebin.ca/65641      my rules file : http://pastebin.ca/65642     program builds with make & sudo make install     the debian directory was created with dh_make, except that I copied the control, changelog, rules, and copyright from the source of typespeed 4.4
<TheMuso> Hmm. I would only have copied the control, copyright and changelog files.
<TheMuso> My guess is that the chgrp stuff for typespeed no longer applies, but I can't be sure of that.
<ryanakca> nope...
<ryanakca> I check the build directory... I went ctrl-c before it deleted it all...
<ryanakca> theres nothing in the /usr/games/, and there is no file starting with type in /var/games
<ryanakca> So my guess is that there IS something wrong with the rules...
<TheMuso> Don't forget that when the package gets built and gets put in a temporary placeholder, that the install files generally get palced in something like debian/tmp/usr etc.
<TheMuso> Thats why I was wondering what was in your debian dir after it failed to build.
<ryanakca> kk, I re-extracted the package, and I'm using the dh_make rules, but the old control, changelog, copyright.
<TheMuso> Ok. You may need to modify rules to suit the needs of the package.
<ryanakca> yeah... I had modified the old rules last time..
<ryanakca> I'll try with dh_make rules, and then I'll modify these as needed...
<TheMuso> Ok.
* ryanakca crosses his fingers...
<ryanakca> http://pastebin.ca/65654
<ryanakca> I need to edit the Makefile...
<ryanakca> right? at least that's what I had done last time... http://pastebin.ca/65655
<TheMuso> Yes you do.
<ryanakca> install to /usr/games methinks... not /usr/bin....
<TheMuso> I don't exactly know where games go.
<ryanakca> yep
<TheMuso> /usr/games I think..
<ryanakca> but then... it's not exactly a "game"... its more of a "learn to type" program... so I'll put it in /usr/bin
<ryanakca> ok, different error now, it seems to be one that is easyer to fix....
<ryanakca> http://pastebin.ca/65658
<TheMuso> THe Makefile doesn't use the DESTDIr variable.
<TheMuso> Which it needs to.
<TheMuso> Sloppy Makefile writers. :S
<ryanakca> hmmm... I COULD do something incredibly stupid to fix that error.. but I wont :)
<LaserJock> bah, why not? :-)
<ryanakca> chmod 777 ${BIN}  , 	install -s -m 755 typespeed ${BIN}    ,    chmod 755 ${BIN}
<ryanakca> see what I mean?
<TheMuso> That still doesn't help the package build process.
<ryanakca> it doesn't have permission to write to /usr/bin, so fix that... but that gives a split second to any security exploit just waiting to strike
<TheMuso> ryanakca: Would you mind sending me a copy of the Makefile via irc dcc? I will edit it and show you what I mean.
<ryanakca> kk
<ryanakca> what about I put it on my web server
<TheMuso> Thats fine.
<ryanakca> rkavanagh.homelinux.org/~ryan/Makefile
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<ryanakca> np, brb
<TheMuso> When you are ready, the edited copy s here: http://www.themuso.id.au/Makefile
<TheMuso> The section I have changed is the install section.
<LaserJock> bah, I'm only getting FC5 at 400k/s which is like getting Ubuntu at 80k/s
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> What are you getting FC5 for?
<LaserJock> because DistroWatch said it was better than Dapper :-)
* TheMuso grumbles about quota free mirrors not having the DVD isos.
<TheMuso> Right.
<LaserJock> and I haven't seen Fedora since about FC3
<LaserJock> so I thought I'd give it a shot in qemu
<TheMuso> I have only ever played with FC1. :)
<LaserJock> yuk, I didn't think it was very good, although I've never been very impressed with any Red Hat stuff
<LaserJock> they always end up a lot slower for me
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> Ok. I have found amirror with the DVD.
* TheMuso grabs it.
<LaserJock> probably the same one I'm getting it from
<LaserJock> don't steal my bandwidth ;-)
<TheMuso> Meh. 5 hours till it finishes. :)
<TheMuso> Nah, this is a mirror in Australia.
<TheMuso> That I am using.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> cause my I dropped to 390k/s ;-)
<LaserJock> s/my//
<TheMuso> Well I am only able to pull 162 KB/s max on my connection.
<TheMuso> And I am currently maxing it out.
<LaserJock> well, I've been able to get 4M/s but that's pretty rare
<TheMuso> Lucky you.
<TheMuso> I am stuck on 1.5mbps here in Australia.
<LaserJock> well, I pay (or rather my advisor pays) enough in tuition, I oughta get some decent bandwidth
<TheMuso> Faster speeds are available, but I haven't bothered changing. Won't bother till we move anyway.
<TheMuso> But Australian broadband is still mostly stone-aged compared to most of the rest of the world.
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm on 1.5mbps but it is really stable
<TheMuso> So is mine.
<DarkMageZ> TheMuso, i suggest moving to canberra, i hear they have adsl2+!
<TheMuso> But I'd like more upstream if nothing else.
<TheMuso> I only have 256kbps upstream.
<TheMuso> DarkMageZ: I am pretty sure I can get it on the exchange I am on, but couldn't be bothered changing now, as we will probably be moving in a few months.
<TheMuso> And Canberra is too cold for my liking. :)
<TheMuso> And public transport isn't exactly as good down there.
<DarkMageZ> they have bicycle lanes, u can go anywhere in canberra on a bike
<TheMuso> When you are vision impaired, that is not exactly practicle.
<ajmitch> morning
<DarkMageZ> oh, eh, sorry about that
<LaserJock> lol
<TheMuso> np
<TheMuso> Hey ajmitch.
<LaserJock> even for people with perfectly fine vision, bicycling around cities can be a problem
<ajmitch> if canberra is too cold for you, you'd love dunedin :)
<TheMuso> heh
<LaserJock> I wouldn't know though, I live the US, western US at that
<LaserJock> ajmitch: how do you pronounce dunedin?
<ajmitch> stress on the e
<DarkMageZ> done-ee-din
<LaserJock> hmm
<ajmitch> originally it would have been 2 words
<ajmitch> (scots gaelic)
<zul> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey zul
<bddebian> Howdy gang
<Kyral> hello he who is bddebian
<bddebian> Heh, hi Kyral
<Kyral> I haven't gotten anywhere with that libgc thing
<bddebian> hehe
<Kyral> dpkg-buildpackage stops at the Make Test thing
<Kyral> hurd doesn't freeze because I can ^C out of it
<TheMuso> Cool! VOIP for Paris!
<ryanakca> TheMuso: thanks
<TheMuso> np
<TheMuso> Do you understand what I have done to that?
<ryanakca> I'm looking at it atm...
<ryanakca> you added DESTDIR...
<TheMuso> Yep.
<TheMuso> Which should make sure things get placed in the right place when the package gets built in pbuilder./
<ryanakca> You replaced all the ${PREFIX} with $(DESTDIR)/   by the looks of it
<ryanakca> :)
<ryanakca> I'll try it, thanks
<TheMuso> No problem.
<ryanakca> oops... 1 error http://pastebin.ca/65672
<ryanakca> hmmm... add        mkdir $(DESTDIR)//etc/   before     echo ${WORDFILES} > $(DESTDIR)//etc/typespeedrc    ?
<TheMuso> Yep.
<ryanakca> yep, it worked...
<TheMuso> Cool.
<bmonty> hi MOTUs
<ajmitch> hi bmonty
<ryanakca> http://pastebin.ca/65681
<LaserJock> gobby and VoIP? yikes
<LaserJock> hi bmonty bddebian et. al.
<bddebian> Heya bmonty, LaserJock, ajmitch, TheMuso, ryanakca, etc :-)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yeah I know.
<TheMuso> Gobby is alright for me as it uses GTK2, but I am not sure about teamspeak.
<ryanakca> change      ./typespeed --makescores        to    $(DESTDIR)/${BIN}/typespeed --makescores        ?
<TheMuso> Just setting it up now to have a look.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: where was this announced?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: only to the priveleged few ;-)
<ryanakca> hey bddebian.....      I figured out how to make a rules file for scons...
<ajmitch> LaserJock: figures
<LaserJock> actually, Keybuck said something about it yesterday, I think
<bddebian> ryanakca: Great
<TheMuso> ryanakca: Actually I am not sure about that and what it does.
<LaserJock> does a headset include both headphones and mic (man am I old)
<TheMuso> Yes.
<TheMuso> I am so annoyed, because I have a very good set of headphones, but they don't have a mic, and I don't want to use some crummy headset for audio.
<TheMuso> With things that sound like absolute crap
<LaserJock> I have crummy everything
* TheMuso is somewhat of an audiophile.
<LaserJock> I'll have to make a trip to Walmart ;-)
<ryanakca> bddebian: HOWTO for scons rule files... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging/Kubuntu?action=show&redirect=KubuntuPackagingGuide#head-14fd9bd07ac2eaf9ff87fdb6c4d054e2ecbf88ec
<bddebian> Cool.  Did you get around it not finding libSDL?
<LaserJock> although it is funny that they use Team Speak, people use that a lot one one of the games I used to play
<ryanakca> TheMuso: hmmm... same here
<ryanakca> nope
<ryanakca> That's one of the many parts I don't understand
<TheMuso> And I think it assumes a few path names, and won't place the files in the correct spot.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Have you set up teamspeak yet?
<TheMuso> If so, where in the menus can it be found/
<TheMuso> I haven't found it yet.
<ryanakca> TheMuso:
<ryanakca>  --makescores
<ryanakca>               Reset/Make  scorefiles  for  the  wordfiles  found in the dir defined in the configs or if no config files exist, then in the current dir.
<ryanakca>               Doesnt start typespeed.
<LaserJock> in what menu?
<ryanakca> oops... sorry all... that was supposed to be 1 line :)
<TheMuso> ryanakca: hmmm
<TheMuso> The best thing to do is just to build the package without installing it anywhere, and run that command and see what happens.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Thats what I am wondering.
<TheMuso> When you install teamspeak, there is an option to create menu entries for GNOME and KDE.
<TheMuso> BUt I can't find it anywhere.
<ryanakca> It's allready installed... so...
<TheMuso> Unless I need to reload my menus somehow.
<ryanakca> hmmmm....
<LaserJock> TheMuso: oh, well I haven't gotten that far, I'm on OS X
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Ok, teamspeak is out of the question for me.
<TheMuso> Gar!
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> well, I think it is sort of a cool idea
<LaserJock> I hope it works
<nickpresta> >_>
<LaserJock> although I'm not crazy about being heard around the world :(
<TheMuso> Cool idea, yes. Accessible, no.
<TheMuso> At least I will be able to use gobby.
<TheMuso> I hope.
<nickpresta> I am interested in giving back to the Linux community and I thought packing would be a good way to do it. Could someone give me a brief rundown (non-technical) of what I would be getting myself into?
<LaserJock> nickpresta: a lot of pain and heartache ;-)
<ryanakca> nickpresta: lots of work
<nickpresta> I've heard the horror stories =P
<LaserJock> hehe
<ryanakca> I just started attempting to package... and after ~ 6 hours, I don't even have a package...
<ryanakca> and it's a simple app...
<LaserJock> it's really a blast, and the people are awesome
<LaserJock> don't listen to ryanakca, he's doind silly things ;-)
<ryanakca> and helpfull :)
<nickpresta> Well, I don't mind putting in time and effort as I would waste it sitting here anyways >_>
<TheMuso> heh
<ryanakca> lol... if you have a question... [whisper] don't tell them I told you this... but the people here are really cool and are awesome when it comes to helping you and answering questions[/whisper] ... SHHH!
<bddebian> nickpresta: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide
<LaserJock> if you want some docs check out http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html and www.debian.org/devel/
<LaserJock> bddebian: nooooo, not there :-)
<bddebian> No?
<LaserJock> help.ubuntu.com
<bddebian> Oh :-)
<LaserJock> the wiki is just my working outline
<nickpresta> Yep, thanks. I was bookmarking them earlier and I plan to get to them later tonight.
<LaserJock> I don't want anybody to see that ;-)
<ryanakca> read the help.ubuntu.com one, as well as The Debian New Maintainers' Guide   http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<nickpresta> Any specific language I need to be able to program in?
<LaserJock> no
<nickpresta> God, MySQL takes forever to compile
<LaserJock> TheMuso: what's the problem with TeamSpeak? hard to use?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: It isn't accessible at all. Doesn't work with any GNOME/KDE accessibility technologies.
<bddebian> nickpresta: All of them :-)
<nickpresta> I've always been a fan of Ventrilo. I never liked TS
<LaserJock> bddebian: heh, then what are you doing around here ;-)
<bddebian> :'-(
<LaserJock> TheMuso: bummer man :(
<TheMuso> Damn right.
<TheMuso> I let James know about it. :)
<LaserJock> nice, poke the elmo ;-)
<TheMuso> heh
<zul> LaserJock: ouch...
<zul> thats cold...even for ajmitch
<zul> ;)
<LaserJock> ouch?
<bddebian> WTF are you all talking about?
<LaserJock> we are using VoIP for Paris
<LaserJock> Team Speak
<zul> whoops...misfire
<LaserJock> so all the world can hear the BOFs
<bddebian> Ah
<LaserJock> and gobby so we don't trash each others work
<LaserJock> or something like that ;-)
<ajmitch> we used gobby at UBZ
<ajmitch> it's improved a bit since then
<LaserJock> good
<TheMuso> At least gobby uses GTK.
<LaserJock> I heard it was bad
<ajmitch> 1 client crashing doesn't kill off the session everyone is working on :)
<LaserJock> yikes
<ajmitch> it was a little annoying...
<TheMuso> heh
<LaserJock> what are people editing?
<ajmitch> text
<TheMuso> ajmitch: So how does it work exactly?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, I figured that
* ajmitch has a gobby session open at the moment
<LaserJock> ajmitch: but I thought we would be editing wiki pages
<ajmitch> you are
* LaserJock clearly has a lot to learn
<LaserJock> ok
<ajmitch> it's *much* easier to grab the wiki text & stick it in gobby
* TheMuso has to see how well it plays with accessibility technologies.
<ajmitch> than to handle conflicts on the wiki & deal with the breakage
<LaserJock> TheMuso: well at least its open source
<LaserJock> ajmitch: right, makes sense
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yeah, and it uses GTK which is a good start.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: got gobby installed?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: no
<LaserJock> just a sec
<bmonty> ajmitch: if you are going to demo gobby, I'd like to try it also
<ryanakca> TheMuso: an error... http://pastebin.ca/65689
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ok, I think it might be up
<ajmitch> bmonty: ok..
<ajmitch> so connect to ajmitch.dyndns.org
<LaserJock> lets have a group edit of BddebianIsAGod :-)
<ajmitch> hah
<bddebian> Yeah, please erase it
<TheMuso> ryanakca: I dunno.
<ajmitch> default gobby port should be fine
<ajmitch> (6522)
<bmonty> ajmitch: password?
<ajmitch> netauth
* ajmitch was using it to edit a spec
<TheMuso> Do you guys mind waiting for me?
<TheMuso> Just setting things up here on my lappy with speech to see how things go.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: with somebody else?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes
<ryanakca> Can I change the maintainer in the control file to me, since the original maintainer hasn't touched it for over a year, despite some new releases?
<LaserJock> sorry, maybe I should talk over here
<TheMuso> sure
<LaserJock> jeeze, now they are going over my head
<bmonty> gobby is pretty cool stuff
<LaserJock> how does saving work though?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: saves are done to your local disk
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> and it saves what is currently there? what happens if 2 people edit the same thing?
<TheMuso> Meh. FOr some reason gobby doesn't want to run. Gotta work that out.
<ajmitch> it's 1 editing session
<LaserJock> ok, I'm heading home, thanks for the demo ajmitch
<TheMuso> I'll bet that gobby doesn't like GTK accessibility enabled.
<TheMuso> Lets try it without.
<ajmitch> see you later, LaserJock
<bddebian> Later LaserJock
<TheMuso> Damn damn damn damn damn!!!
<TheMuso> Anybody feel like helping me with a bug hunt who knows GTK2/GNOME stuff? :)
<ajmitch> bddebian will
<bddebian> Nope, according to LaserJock, I don't belong here
<bmonty> ajmitch: did you get the info I left you about LDAP TLS/SASL binds on amd64?
<ajmitch> bmonty: I can't recall
<ajmitch> tell me again, I'm running amd64 here
<bmonty> I run SASL/TLS binds for my server, it works great with my 386 hardware but dies on my amd64
<bmonty> the error message is of course useless
<ajmitch> dies on the client side, or server?
<ajmitch> ie, does it work for an i386 client to the amd64 box?
<bmonty> SASL without TLS works great though, but authentication info is set in the clear
<ajmitch> I haven't setup SASL/TLS properly yet, so I haven't run into it
<bmonty> it works for i386 client to i386 server, fails with amd64 client to server
<bmonty> i386 server
<ajmitch> ok
<bmonty> it is your plan to have SASL/TLS binds, right?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> I wonder if a new upstream version will exhibit the same behaviour
* ajmitch looks at the openldap debian bugs
<bmonty> I did some quick googling to see if I could find any issues with libsasl on amd64 but I couldn't find anything
<ajmitch> you think the bug is in libsasl?
<bmonty> yes
<bmonty> I get an error that the host isn't found
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> odd
<bmonty> but I can see the tcp handshake in ethereal
<ajmitch> I'll be back in a few minutes..
<bmonty> and then the client sends FIN
<ajmitch> strange
<ajmitch> I'll try & reproduce it here
<ajmitch> filed a bug?
<bmonty> ajmitch: i haven't filed a bug yet
<ajmitch> might be a good idea to
<bmonty> launchpad or upstream?
<ajmitch> both, link the launchpad bug to upstream
<bmonty> were you able to test that URL to my bzr repo?
<ajmitch> will do now
<ajmitch> sigh, I'll probably have to replace a monitor or two soon
<ajmitch> :1:> bzr branch http://www.montynet.org/bazaar/kerberos-manager/
<ajmitch> bzr: ERROR: http error 302 probing for https://www.montynet.org/error/HTTP_NOT_FOUND.html.var
<ajmitch> probably the http->https stuff you've got going on
<bmonty> hmmm\
<bmonty> ok, thanks
<bddebian> Damn, someone wake up crimsun_ :-)
<ajmitch> why?
<ajmitch> you need some more worship?
<bddebian> He was going to look at a package for me
<ajmitch> hi nictuku
<ajmitch> how's the NWU stuff going?
<nictuku> hi ajmitch
<bddebian> NWU?
<nictuku> ajmitch, freezed for a few weeks, but I'm back on it. I just created mailing lists for it, by the way
<ajmitch> cool
<nictuku> and moved the hosting from a canonical sponsored machine to one I administer myself
<ajmitch> why is that?
<nictuku> bddebian, http://cetico.org/nwu
<crimsun_> bddebian: eh?
<crimsun_> bddebian: (I'm prepping a presentation for Friday, so I'm a bit busy)
<bddebian> crimsun_: Did you happen to get a chance to look at that at all?  Oh, nevermind
<ajmitch> crimsun_: the deity has requested your presence...
<bddebian> nictuku: Ah, cool
<ryanakca> TheMuso: Oh Yeah! I finally made that package!
* ryanakca does a little "I made my first package" dance
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> congrats ryanakca
<TheMuso> ryanakca: Congratulations.
<TheMuso> What did you have to do to get that fixed up?
<nictuku> ajmitch, the guy administering the "ubuntu-br" machine is very busy. I started having problems with infrastructure, like lack of backup etc.
<ryanakca> play with the Makefile...
<TheMuso> Right.
<ryanakca> rkavanagh.homelinux.org/~ryan/Makefile
<TheMuso> tah
<ryanakca> to upload a package to REVU, what do you do?
<ryanakca> I allready sent the email...
<ryanakca> and I got a reply...
<ryanakca> I just need to upload :)
<TheMuso> One thing you might want to do is remove any extra slashes. For example the etc/typespeedrc lines.
<TheMuso> THey have 2 slashes in them.
<TheMuso> You only need one between the DESTDIR varilable and etc.
<ryanakca> I thought they were supposed to have thoses...
<TheMuso> You only need one.
<ryanakca> kk
<TheMuso> So echo ${WORDFILES} > $(DESTDIR)//etc/typespeedrc
<TheMuso> SHould be echo ${WORDFILES} > $(DESTDIR)/etc/typespeedrc
<TheMuso> ryanakca: Did you follow the revu page on the wiki?
<ryanakca> kk, done that
<TheMuso> There is a page to tell you what to do to upload to revu.
<ryanakca> "dput -P *_source.changes" ... what about dput -P *.dsc   or        dput -P *.deb      ?
<TheMuso> Did you read the page?
<ryanakca> I'm reading it...
<TheMuso> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ryanakca> theres no "*_source.changes" files... just "*.changes"... and yes, I ran debuild -S -sa...
<TheMuso> Ok.
<Toadstool> re
<bmonty> ajmitch: looks like our sasl is a couple revs old....debian is behind also
<bddebian> bmonty: So fix it ;-)
<bmonty> bddebian:  I just might do that
<bddebian> :-)
<bmonty> ajmitch: malone 49871
<bmonty> ajmitch: malone 49781
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 49781 in cyrus-sasl2 "SASL/TLS LDAP binds fail on amd64" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49781
<bmonty> damn that package has almost 30 patches in it :(
<bddebian> Heh, check out qt-x11-free
<bmonty> how many?
<bddebian> 48
<bddebian> last I saw
<Kyral> why do I do stupid things like subscribe to the PHP Users ML?
<Lathiat> i did that once
<Lathiat> 2 years ago
<Lathiat> i couldnt read all of it if i tried
<Kyral> Oh I have done worse
<Kyral> I subscribed to LKML :P
<Lathiat> heh
<Kyral> I actually do read some of the threads
<Toadstool> 'night
<bmonty> bye Toadstool
<Toadstool> bye bmonty
<Kyral> someone stop me from subscribing to more MLs....
<TheMuso> Kyral: Stop subscribing to more mailing lists NOW DAMN IT! :)
<Kyral> I just subscribed to the PHP-Announce, the PHP-Users, the Apache-Users, the Perl Beginners, and the Perl FAQ A Day list
<bddebian> Kyral: Dude, that is just plain insane
<bddebian> wb LaserJock
<Kyral> I'm already on most of the Ubuntu ones
<Kyral> and the LKML
<jsgotangco> thank goodness for 2GB+ free email ;)
<Kyral> Bingo :P
<Kyral> Or running your own mailserver
<LaserJock> ok, I got Team Speak installed and gobby
<LaserJock> and I got a head set at Walmart
<Kyral> and downloading the emails every 10 mins or so :P
<Erlang> I have a big mailing list backlog.
* LaserJock just discovered the joys of gmane RSS the other day thanks to crimsun
<Kyral> ..crap
<Kyral> I wound up double subscribed to PHP-General
<bddebian> Damn, I can't even keep up with just #ubuntu-devel
<TheMuso> Ubuntu-devel is fine.
<TheMuso> Thats nothing compared to how I remember ubuntu-users was.
<Erlang> it's too bad I hate akregator because I'd use RSS more.
<Kyral> Its NOTHING compared to LKML :P
<bmonty> goodnight everyone
<bddebian> Gnight bmonty_away
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
<Hobbsee> i survived my first uni exam, even with only three hours of sleep :)
<LaserJock> \o/
<crimsun_> hooray
<LaserJock> the first of many, I expect :-)
<Hobbsee> yeah, probably
<imbrandon_> heya LaserJock and Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon_ ;0
<Hobbsee> * :)
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon_
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon_
<imbrandon_> heya bddebian
<LaserJock> dang, how do I test if a microphone works?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: IM someone with it?
<Hobbsee> voice chat?
<imbrandon_> audacity ?
<crimsun_> ``gstreamer-properties''
<imbrandon_> sound recorder
<crimsun_> click Test in the audio source
<LaserJock> crimsun_: ah
<imbrandon_> heya crimsun_
<crimsun_> or ``arecord -fcd /dev/null''
<crimsun_> hi imbrandon_
<LaserJock> hmm, well I still don't know how I can tell if it worked or not
<LaserJock> the headphone part works fine
<LaserJock> but I can't get anything out of sound recorder, at least I don't think
<LaserJock> bah, I hate sound
<crimsun_> LaserJock: x-terminal-emulator -e 'alsamixer'
<crimsun_> press F4
<crimsun_> what's highlighted?
<LaserJock> Line?
<LaserJock> crimsun_: but Line, CD, and Mic are all 0 or something
<crimsun_> well, I presume you're trying to use 'Mic', so move (arrow keys) to 'Mic', and select it using the space bar
<crimsun_> make sure it's unmuted, too
<crimsun_> furthermore, increase its level
<LaserJock> how do I unmute it?
<crimsun_> 'm'
<crimsun_> if it's muted, it'll have MM at the bottom
<LaserJock> I don't have any MM at the bottom and "m" doesn't do anything
<LaserJock> infact nothing seems to do anything
<crimsun_> good
<crimsun_> now press F3 and move to the 'Capture' element
<crimsun_> make sure that's unmuted and set to a non-zero level
<crimsun_> let's see what other cruft you have to set
<crimsun_> ``asoundconf list''
<LaserJock> I don't see a "Capture"
<crimsun_> mmkay.
<crimsun_> what's the output from the above command?
<bddebian> do be do be dooo
<LaserJock> IXP
<LaserJock> Modem
<crimsun_> and ``cat ~/.asoundrc*'' ?
<crimsun_> (it's ok if you don't have one/any)
<LaserJock> No such file or directory
<crimsun_> ok, ``amixer'' -> pastebin
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15745
<LaserJock> I gotta take out the trash brb
<bddebian> "Take out the papers and the trash"..
<bddebian> "Or you don't get no spending cash"..
<crimsun_> LaserJock: amixer set 'Mic Boost (+20dB)' on
<LaserJock> k
<crimsun_> also, amixer set 'IEC958 Playback AC97-SPSA' 0
<crimsun_> and finally, amixer set 'Capture' on
<crimsun_> some of the atiixps need 'Mix' unmuted, too, but you should try it as-is for now
<LaserJock> sorry bout that, the sys admin just sent a message the the dep. server was going down for 1/2 hr
<LaserJock> crimsun_: ok, last thing I did was amixer set 'Capture' on
<LaserJock> now test?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: yes
* crimsun_ wonders which input mux is used.
* ajmitch should get these packages ready for edgy
<LaserJock> bah, Sound Recorder isn't helping me much
<ajmitch> since it'll open "any day now"
<ajmitch> LaserJock: just blame someone else
* LaserJock blames elmo
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> never blame him
<ajmitch> not if you want to live
<ajmitch> yay, what fun
<ajmitch> next devel team meeting is at 1400UTC
<ajmitch> ie, 2AM NZST
<crimsun_> LaserJock: you can try the other mux.  amixer set 'Mic Select' 'Mic2'
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, he is the one that sent the email
<ajmitch> LaserJock: which email?
<ajmitch> one that only special people get?
<crimsun_> I think so
<ajmitch> must be
<LaserJock> yeah, we are using Team Speak for VoIP
<ajmitch> so I heard in here
<LaserJock> so I got a headset on the way home
<LaserJock> crimsun_: still no go
* ajmitch will be 11 hours ahead, so all BOFs will be done during the night here
<ajmitch> I'll have to match my sleeping patterns to paris time :)
<LaserJock> heh, isn't it already?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: switch back to 'Mic1', and unmute 'Mix'
<ajmitch> not quite
<ajmitch> I went to bed a bit early this morning for that
<crimsun_> LaserJock: if that doesn't work, then switch to 'Mic2' (leaving 'Mix' unmuted)
* ajmitch wonders how bddebian & Hobbsee are going with attal
<LaserJock> how do i unmut 'Mix' ?
<crimsun_> amixer set 'Mix' on
* Hobbsee hasnt had a look at it
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: why not?
<Hobbsee> been telling someone how to get his wireless card working...
<ajmitch> fun
<Hobbsee> stupid netgear
<LaserJock> nothing :(
<LaserJock> maybe I should test it in windows real quick to make sure it really does work
<crimsun_> LaserJock: what are you using, sound recorder or arecord -fcd /dev/null ?
<LaserJock> sound recorder
<bddebian> Hobbsee: If you really are interested, you are free to check them out.  They are here:  http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/packages/ubuntu/
<ajmitch> I suppose I should get a cheap headset as well
<bddebian> You will need attal and attal-themes-medieval
<ajmitch> bddebian: so are you going to review my packages for edgy?
<bddebian> For what purpose, I don't know anything
* ajmitch sighs
<LaserJock> crimsun_: how do I know it works with arecord?
<crimsun_> start arecord using the command line above, and if you can hear yourself...
<LaserJock> oh
<crimsun_> ah, GPIO madness
<Hobbsee> bddebian: so you can tell him all the places he went wrong :P
<crimsun_> recording works for some, doesn't work for others
<crimsun_> yay!
<LaserJock> crimsun_: nothing, tried Mic1 and Mic2
<crimsun_> LaserJock: pastebin ``lspci -nv''
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15746
<LaserJock> jeeze, how can you get anything out of that
<jsgotangco> heh! teamspeak preparations!
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: trying, I can't get my mic to work
* jsgotangco tries it on his laptop
<crimsun_> LaserJock: finally, pastebin the contents of /proc/asound/card0/codec97#0/*reg*
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15747
<LaserJock> am I toast?
<crimsun_> I wonder if you need to jiggle the misc bit
* Hobbsee pushes random buttons on the phone, trying to make it work.
<LaserJock> jiggle the wha?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: that usually doesn't work very well
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: sure it does.  it does with the gadget at work too, unless you accidently hit the sequence of buttons that reboots it.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: this is why you never let Hobbsee near your laptop
<LaserJock> yeah, or my phone
<crimsun_> LaserJock: echo "7a 6000" |sudo tee /proc/asound/card0/codec97#0/ac97#0-0+regs
<Hobbsee> haha
* Hobbsee makes a mental note to defenestrate ajmitch's laptop at the first available opportunity
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I'm going to leave it in NZ :P
<LaserJock> bah, no such device
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: what, and be without a computer for 2 weeks?  i'd like to see you try!
<ajmitch> easy
<crimsun_> LaserJock: you need to substitute the correct filename in /proc/asound/card0/codec97#0/*reg*
<LaserJock> doh, sorry
<crimsun_> ah crap, we don't have that option enabled anyway.
<LaserJock> umm, still
<LaserJock> no such device
<LaserJock> weird
<crimsun_> yeah, it requires you have CONFIG_SND_DEBUG enabled in the kernel.
<crimsun_> # CONFIG_SND_DEBUG is not set
<LaserJock> I'm going to have to rebuild my kernel to get my stupid mic to wrk?
<jsgotangco> hmm stupid question, how do you turn on the mic in alsamixer?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: isn't that the glory of the Linux Desktop?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: think they'd mind if I did the summit in Windows? :-)
<ajmitch> probably not much
<crimsun_> LaserJock: ok, maybe you have funky hardware. Try: amixer set 'IEC958 Playback AC97-SPSA' 1
<crimsun_> (which is what you originally had, but that's normally wrong)
<crimsun_> and no, alsa's modularised; you'd only have to recompile your sound driver :)
<LaserJock> bah nothing
<crimsun_> great, I proclaim your fiddle quite useless
<LaserJock> brb
<jsgotangco> oh im inside the server
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> im the only one inside
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: which server is this?
<jsgotangco> teamspeak.uds.canonical.com
<ajmitch> ah, secret servers
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<jsgotangco> i just dont know if my setup works though
<ajmitch> night bddebian
<LaserJock> am I still here?
<crimsun_> (yes)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: quite possibly
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no
<LaserJock> k, I switched over to Windows for a sec
<jsgotangco> hmm is this running on wine?
<LaserJock> crimsun_: it worked in Windows after I turned on the Mic boost
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: no
<LaserJock> on my laptop
<jsgotangco> no i mean the teamspeak client itself heh
<crimsun_> LaserJock: now if only we could poke the ac97 registers from within Windows, eh?
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: no, Linux
<LaserJock> crimsun_: how do I check if the mic boost is on?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: from within Linux?
<LaserJock> yeah
<crimsun_> just amixer get 'Mic Boost (+20dB)'
<crimsun_> I'm pretty sure I asked you to turn it on (unmute it)...
<LaserJock> yeah, I just wanted to check
<LaserJock> I GOT IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<crimsun_> I'm going to stab someone if it was Headphones or anything related to Mix.
<LaserJock> I did it in the Volume Control
<crimsun_> what's the amixer output now?
<LaserJock> ack, how do I get that again, I don't have my backlog
<crimsun_> ``amixer''
<LaserJock> looks like "external amplifier" was a key
<LaserJock> that and turning up the volume enought to hear myself
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15751
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> so soon we'll be able to hear everyone talking away
<LaserJock> arggg
<LaserJock> I really wish it wouldn't work now ;-)
<ajmitch> aw, why not?
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: you on?
* ajmitch is *still* trying to download it
<LaserJock> ok, I'm going to bed
<ajmitch> night LaserJock
<Hobbsee> night LaserJock
<crimsun_> LaserJock: EA couldn't have affected it
<crimsun_> (the values are identical)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: downloaded teamspeak? :)
* crimsun_ blames it on pebkac
<LaserJock> really? when I flip it on and off it works and doesn't
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i havent yet, why do you ask?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: your pastes before rebooting into Windows have EA unmuted
<LaserJock> crimsun_: anyway, what is the best way to save these settings so that in the future I can get it to work
<ajmitch> so that you can participate in the grand motu meetup via teamspeak? :)
<LaserJock> crimsun_: it could have been working but turned down low enough that I couldn't hear that I was on
<crimsun_> LaserJock: they're saved when you reboot gracefully. To force it to save now, ``sudo alsactl store''
<crimsun_> LaserJock: yeah, I /highly/ doubt it was EA. I think it was a PEBKAC. =] 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: tempting...tempting...except that i'm female and aussie, so will sound weird :P
<LaserJock> crimsun_: does that go to a file somewere that I can back up in case I reinstall or something
<crimsun_> LaserJock: /var/lib/alsa/asound.state
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: that's be fun to hear
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: hehe
<LaserJock> * that'd
<Hobbsee> i'll bet
<Hobbsee> can i listen, and not talk?
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> that's what I plan to do
* Hobbsee goes to research how
<ajmitch> since I don't have a microphone...
<Hobbsee> ah
<LaserJock> crimsun_: hmm, as soon as I turn External Amplifier off it is dead as a door nail
<LaserJock> I can turn Mic Boost on and I can still hear it working
<LaserJock> well, whatever. Ext. Amp. is the only thing that just turns it off
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: was there some guide for it that i've missed in the chat, or is it a case of download and install?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: at least there shouldn't be *too* many going 'OMG its a girl!!'
<Hobbsee> haha
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: download & install, I think
<ajmitch> but there couldn't possibly be a girl developer!
<Hobbsee> mum's asleep with a migraine - it might be a dodgy idea to wake her up
<LaserJock> ajmitch: specially since there have been women there before
<ajmitch> LaserJock: there'll be lots more people listening in, I think
<ajmitch> I hope it doesn't turn to chaos
<crimsun_> LaserJock: that's the point.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: would she wake up that easily?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: EA is /supposed/ to act as a sort of 'Master' (since not all codecs have that), but again, it's hit n' miss...
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'm not sure...i'm not sure where the mic is either - i think it's hidden in the deep dark depths of the study
<ajmitch> unfortunate
<LaserJock> crimsun_: well whatever, we got it to work, thanks bunches for helping me out. I'm quite dumb when it comes to sound
<crimsun_> np
<LaserJock> usually I couldn't care less if it worked :-)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: we'll see :)
<ajmitch> s/see/hear/
* LaserJock waves goodnight
<ajmitch> night again LaserJock
<LaserJock> heh
<ajmitch> what an ugly program
<Hobbsee> hehe yeah!  that's what i was thinking
<Hobbsee> looks like i'm in
<ajmitch> you are
<ajmitch> so dig up a microphone
<ajmitch> not that I have one...
<Hobbsee> er...why wont my speakers be unmuted?
<ajmitch> because you've got something using /dev/dsp?
<Hobbsee> probably arts or something...
* ajmitch is waiting for jsgotangco to speak :)
<jsgotangco> haha
<jsgotangco> let me try
<jsgotangco> i dunno if my mic works
<ajmitch> I heard something quietly
<ajmitch> unintelligible, mostly
<jsgotangco> i only heard a hum
<ajmitch> was it 'mic test', that you said?
<ajmitch> bye Hobbsee
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ajmitch> I love how it calls everyone 'player'
<jsgotangco> new player
<jsgotangco> lol
<Hobbsee> ah :)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> that worked
<Hobbsee> dammit.  guess i'd better search for a mic now...
* Hobbsee wants to hear someone else talk first
<ajmitch> you didn't hear jsgotangco?
<jsgotangco> so i guess im the only guy with a mic?
<ajmitch> I have one that may or may not work
<jsgotangco> i dunno if mine works, xfce doesn't have that much sound options by default
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: my mic/headphones werent working then
<ajmitch> well I've heard jsgotangco say 'hi sarah'
<jsgotangco> "Sorry for my Teamspeak"
<Hobbsee> i didnt hear anything...hmmm...
<jsgotangco> wtf is that welcome message about heh
<jsgotangco> it doesnt even make sesnse if its the default
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: mic settings seem fine - you're audible, at least
<ajmitch> my microphone seems pretty broken, will have to get a new one
<ajmitch> hm, maybe not
<jsgotangco> hmm wonder if i could use a bluetooth headset
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you're in luck.
<jsgotangco> come on can someone with a mic join too heh
<jsgotangco> "new player"
<ajmitch> haha
<Hobbsee> uh oh...am i live?
<ajmitch> I'm guessing you're not hearing my voice, then? :)
<Hobbsee> no
<jsgotangco> no
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> ubuntu radio, live from jsgotangco ...
<jsgotangco> jeezz don't blow the mic
<ajmitch> haha
<Hobbsee> okay, sound's gone fishing...
<ajmitch> the wiring must be broken
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you broke it?
<Hobbsee> i dont know...
<Hobbsee> i think teamspeak did
<ajmitch> :P
<jsgotangco> ummm
<jsgotangco> stop playing 80s mucis
<ajmitch> :)
<jsgotangco> haha
* ajmitch looks for some appropriate music
<TheMuso> There isn't a CLI version of teamspeak is there?
<jsgotangco> no i dont thik so, its not even open source
<jsgotangco> Queen?
<ajmitch> yeah
<TheMuso> jsgotangco: I didn't think so.
<TheMuso> Looks like I won't be able to participate in VOIP or gobby stuff at this stage.
<jsgotangco> its faint but my place is a bit noisy too
<ajmitch> no gobby either?
<ajmitch> welcome back, Hobbsee
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Crashes when you try to run it with accessibility turned on in GNOME.
<jsgotangco> ouch
<ajmitch> file a bug!
<TheMuso> Have done so.
<ajmitch> get it fixed asap! :)
<ajmitch> just in malone?
<TheMuso> Yep.
<Hobbsee> thanks ajmitch
<ajmitch> have you informed upstream?
<Hobbsee> right, i have sound again...
<TheMuso> ajmitch: No because they are working on an unstable branc which is not backwards compatible.
<TheMuso> branch even
<ajmitch> wonderful
<TheMuso> I haven't looked into filing one against 0.3 yet
* TheMuso is going to now.
<jsgotangco> ok Hobbsee start singing
<ajmitch> sounds like we have a hobbsee back on teamspeak
<Hobbsee> still got trouble here
<Hobbsee> did you hear me before, or is the mic buggered as well?
<ajmitch> called KDE?
<ajmitch> no, we haven't heard your voice yet
<Hobbsee> ok
<jsgotangco> i heard something but its probably hardware
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: did you hear me, or not?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: nope
<Hobbsee> everything's muted again
<ajmitch> excellent
<Hobbsee> ah ha!
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: want to speak?
<Hobbsee> "link engaged"
<Hobbsee> all right, someone say something
<Hobbsee> something's making noise :P
<Hobbsee> hello to whoever that was :P
<TheMuso> Uhh ok. The bug tracker for gobby decides to think that my bug is a spam attempt.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you have no microphone working?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: trying to get it to work
<Hobbsee> is there any way to test if a mic is working?
<TheMuso> Looks like I won't be able to use the launchpad bug URL I am guessing.
<TheMuso> Gar!
<Hobbsee> guess that's what they were going thru before
<TheMuso> Looks like they aren't getting my bug then.
* ajmitch waits for Hobbsee to speak...
<Hobbsee> i am speaking, you just cant hear me...
<ajmitch> :P
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: take your fingers out of your ears, mate!  :P
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: huh?
<Hobbsee> all right all right...who's who on this thing :P
<jsgotangco> but you can hear us the right?
<Hobbsee> yep
<ajmitch> good
<Hobbsee> blastoff!
<jsgotangco> dracula?
<jsgotangco> haha
<ajmitch> bach...
<Hobbsee> i am speaking, can you hear me?
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<Hobbsee> drat.  where's crimsun_ when you need him?
<ajmitch> :)
<crimsun_> ?
<ajmitch> crimsun_!
<crimsun_> this nick highlight thing is borked, since I totally didn't get a highlight there
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: how does one go about debugging mics?
<crimsun_> Hobbsee: hmm, I'm an alsamixer user, so I can only guess at what kmix does
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: i've got alsamixer here...
<jsgotangco> blame KDE lol
<Hobbsee> hehe
* jsgotangco points at ajmitch
* ajmitch points at jsgotangco 
<crimsun_> using either (shouldn't matter), you should unmute 'Mic' and 'Mic Boost*', and make sure you increase 'Mic' to about 80%
<Hobbsee> how do i know if i'm using mic one or two?
<crimsun_> Mic2's usually on the rear panel
<crimsun_> well, rephrase
<jsgotangco> i jsut heard an echo
<crimsun_> Mic1 is usually the most readily accessible
<jsgotangco> lol
<TheMuso> Bah. All you lucky people being able to use TeamSpeak.
<Hobbsee> hehe right
<TheMuso> Not fair. :)
<TheMuso> I wish they chose something else for the conference.
<crimsun_> so both those need to be unmuted, and 'Mic' set to something like 80%+
<jsgotangco> yeah i think elmo chose something that could be centralised instead of having a 3rd party server
<Hobbsee> can someone say something again?  not sure if i've lost my sound again...
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> thanks jsgotangco
<crimsun_> then press F4 to switch to the Capture perspective, make sure 'Mic' has CAPTUR (in red), then scroll to 'Capture', make sure it too has CAPTUR in red (if not, toggle it with spacebar), and increase the 'Capture' level to 80%+
* ajmitch waits for Hobbsee to say something that we can hear
<crimsun_> I can't even use TS, cos this place firewalls everything
<ajmitch> how annoying
<TheMuso> jsgotangco: I know, but it is still a pain in the rear end.
<Hobbsee> yeah yeah...
<Hobbsee> ah
<TheMuso> I have been thinking of how I could participate in the VOIP side, but haven't been able to think of anything.
<Hobbsee> can i be heard at all now?  i'm showing green...
<jsgotangco> meh who's fiddling with hardware
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I hear nothing
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: me
<jsgotangco> i heard it
<Hobbsee> it's all my fault :P
<jsgotangco> but speak!
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: possibly my laptop
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it may well be me...
* ajmitch blames Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: thanks, the capture wasnt up
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee blames ajmitch 
<ajmitch> we still haven't heard you...
<Hobbsee> mm ok
<jsgotangco> ouuuuuuuuuchhhhhhhhhh
<jsgotangco> yay
<Hobbsee> too loud?
<Hobbsee> haha
<jsgotangco> i think the mic is too loud
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: yeah, i ran it full bore...
<jsgotangco> i didnt understand anything lol
<Hobbsee> dont worry, i'm not understandable :P
<jsgotangco> thats a pretty bad mic i'd say
* Hobbsee tells ajmitch to activate the push to speak control
<jsgotangco> arrghh
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: who's?
<Hobbsee> and then it went silent....
<TheMuso> Is it possible to run teamspeak without push to talk?
<ajmitch> TheMuso: yes
<TheMuso> Hmmm
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yes, but it needs bits of tweaking
<Hobbsee> otherwise there's a fair bit of static
<jsgotangco> but itll just make a lot of hum/noise
<TheMuso> mmm. Just thinking about how I could participate in the summit VOIP stuff.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: in the early hours of the morning?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I will be over there.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: he's one of the lucky few
<Hobbsee> oh
<jsgotangco> TheMuso: there's also voice activation
<Hobbsee> i see, i see...
<TheMuso> Its the problem of getting connected and running in the first damn place.
<ajmitch> well, about time for me to head off
<Hobbsee> it didnt seem *that* hard - with the help of crimsun :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee is making a bit of noise there...
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Its not that. SOund setup is easy. Is the accessibility of the app.
<TheMuso> I have some sight, and on my monitor here I could get it set up quite ok. But on a notebook, it is another story.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: attempting to say goodbye, yes :P
<jsgotangco> yeah i dont think it has options for such
<Hobbsee> true
<bluefoxicy> ok I need sleep
<jsgotangco> it doesnt help that teamspeak was created for online gaming
<jsgotangco> "player left"
<jsgotangco> lol
<Hobbsee> hehe yeah
<TheMuso> And there is no shortcut key to even connect/disconnect.
<TheMuso> Those coders need some usability lessons.
<Hobbsee> of course - one lesson for this - no one talk at the same time!
<jsgotangco> ah yeah
<imbrandon_> ventrello would be better for developers
<imbrandon_> ;)
<crimsun_> ventrillo, isn't it?
<imbrandon_> err yea
<imbrandon_> vent ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: ping
<imbrandon_> pong
<jsgotangco> Hobbsee: philippines
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: system settings, click "enable sound system"
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: ahhhh...
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: ie, disable it
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: then hit apply, and reconnect
<jsgotangco> brb
<crimsun_> I think I'd better make a wiki page for this before core-dev jumps at me
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: good idea hehe
<imbrandon_> huh?
<Hobbsee> use it with alsamixer - anyone can run that
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: huh to which bit?
<imbrandon_> system settings in ts ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: no, as in, system settings, where appearance and all that is...
<imbrandon_> ooooooooooohh
<imbrandon_> lol
<Hobbsee> hit the sound and multimedia, then untick the enable kde sound system
<Hobbsee> then d/c from ts and reconnect
<crimsun_> well, you can use any mixer as long as those elements are fiddled with
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: true, but it's simpler in alsamixer
<Hobbsee> do them all if you really want :P
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: yay!
<Hobbsee> lol!
<imbrandon_> lol
<Hobbsee> bleh. too bad about waking others up :P
<imbrandon_> lol
* TheMuso ponders joining in the insanity.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: go for it
<ajmitch> might as well
<ajmitch> (I'm not quite gone yet) ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe i was about to say that...
<imbrandon_> who is the server admin , they should let us reg nic's and make a -motu chan etc passwd protected
<Hobbsee> you look like you're here :P
<ajmitch> I'm off in ~10 minutes
<crimsun_> I'd totally do it if I could find an intuitive way to tunnel udp. I suppose openvpn...
<Hobbsee> ok
* TheMuso pulls out his microphone.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yay!
* ajmitch waits for him to join
<TheMuso> Twill be a bit yet guys.
* Hobbsee suspects that if she's around for anything, she'll be told to shut up quite often, as usually happens on these things.
<ajmitch> heh
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: you're dropping out a bit...
<Hobbsee> this sounds so *weird*!
<TheMuso> Ok. How do you configure your push to talk key, and the sound for teamspeak?
<imbrandon_> lol yea
<jsgotangco> TheMuso: Settings -> Sound Input/Output Settings
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: see what crimsun said above about the mic stuff, and you've got to kill artsd/whichever other sound server
<imbrandon_> hearing is diff that typing huh ?
<Hobbsee> yeah, just a bit
<ajmitch> yeah
<imbrandon_> i'm used to it becosue we use it alot where i worked before
<TheMuso> Well I am using a machine that has three sound cards in it.
<ajmitch> it's like 'ZOMG itz a gurl!!!!1'
<ajmitch> ;)
<TheMuso> SO can I set up which card to use for example?
<jsgotangco> haha
<TheMuso> And what did crimsun_ state?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i was just thinking...if certain people get on there and make certain comments...well, they might get me yelling at them...
<ajmitch> I'd better leave quickly
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I'll be nice :)
<ajmitch> right, now I'm really off to choir practice ;)
<crimsun_> TheMuso: you can use a different card, yes, but TS is oss, so you'll have to use the oss devices
<crimsun_> your primary alsa card0 is /dev/dsp, your secondary card1 is /dev/dsp1, your tertiary card2 is /dev/dsp2, ...
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: enjoy :)
<crimsun_> TheMuso: Settings> Options> Sound Devices> Other> ...
<TheMuso> crimsun_: Yeah I know about the oss stuff.
<TheMuso> And I found it.
<crimsun_> TheMuso: the rest of the stuff was about adjusting $mixer levels; unmute both 'Mic' and 'Mic Boost'; set 'Mic' to an appropriate level; select 'Capture' and set it to an appropriate level
* TheMuso is using an envy24 card so it is different, but I have mic working.
<TheMuso> How does one set the key for talking?
<crimsun_> ah, so you have the wonderful envy24control.
<TheMuso> Indeed.
<TheMuso> None of that capture bullshit. :)
<crimsun_> hehe
<crimsun_> Settings> Sound Input/Output Settings> Voice Send Method> Push to talk> Set
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: you can have a dep of firefox|mozilla for that
<imbrandon_> yea but currently its just mozilla
<Hobbsee> true
<imbrandon_> kinda sucks
<Hobbsee> yeah
<TheMuso> Ok. What server is everybody on?
<imbrandon_> teamspeak.uds.canonical.com
<TheMuso> Is there a server password?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: no
<imbrandon_> no
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: hey sydneysider
<jsgotangco> imbrandon_: yours is pretty smooth
<imbrandon_> k
<Hobbsee> TheMuso's isnt relaly - hard to understand
<Hobbsee> hahahaha!
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: seems like i just lose part of your speech - not sure why - it may be a gain thing, i dont know
<ricmen> hi
<jsgotangco> lol
<TheMuso> jsgotangco: Why have you not spoken?
<imbrandon_> hello ricmen
<imbrandon_> Hobbsee, http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
<Hobbsee> bah.  thanks.   i'm just lazy :P
<imbrandon_> ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: TheMuso we need a :P on there...
<imbrandon_> haha
<imbrandon_> or a LOL
<Hobbsee> yeah - but it's fun hearing you guys laugh :P
<TheMuso> No we don't.
* Hobbsee goes and hides.
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<jsgotangco> TeamLaugh?
<imbrandon_> hahhaha
<imbrandon_> i had to unplug my mic
<highvoltage> ogra__: ping
<jsgotangco> hey highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey jsgotangco
<Riddell-awa> well I'm in a semi-public cafe so I don't know how polite it would be to get my microphone out and start chatting
<Hobbsee> Riddell-awa: try it out, anyway :P
<TheMuso> hehe
<Hobbsee> Riddell-awa: just go for the corner where there are no people
<ech01> where do i find the reasons for the each of the ubuntu updates?
<Riddell-awa> unfortunately the only other person in here is at the next table, and this is the only table with a power socket
<Riddell-awa> ech01: changelogs.ubuntu.com
<ech01> Riddell-awa: thank you
<Hobbsee> Riddell-awa: ah...drat
<ech01> Riddell-awa: it's hard to follow, is there any tool that simplifies me reading them?
<Riddell-awa> ech01: ubuntu's updates programme will
<ech01> Riddell-awa: like apt-cache, synaptic, etc
<Riddell-awa> I can't remember what it's called, whatever update-notifier launches
<ech01> Riddell-awa: isn't update notifier synaptic's?
<Riddell-awa> no, although it might launch synaptic
<Riddell-awa> aww, Hobbsee left
<Hobbsee> Riddell-awa: why aww?  i wasnt saying much anyway
<Hobbsee> i'll probably jump back on later
<Hobbsee> unless dad nicks the headset back :P
<imbrandon> yea i think me and TheMuso hijacked the channell for a while ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: haha
* Hobbsee should actually study for her next exam, too...
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> rather than leaving it for >12 hours until the exam starts...
<Hobbsee> er <12
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: so what will happen with jingle support?
<imbrandon> no idea untill ortp is updated
<imbrandon> i guess
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ortp?
<imbrandon> thats what freeflying said was wrong with it
<Hobbsee> oh ok
<imbrandon> it needed a diffrent version that what was in dapper
<Hobbsee> right
<imbrandon> maybe edgy ?
<Hobbsee> that'd be good
* Hobbsee did contemplate creating a partition for edgy today.
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> got sidetracked though...all these people wanting to hear me speak :P
<imbrandon> as soon as x11 is compiled for edgy i'll make a partition for irt
<TheMuso> ortp?
<imbrandon> TheMuso, no idea , it was a freeflying|away thing
<TheMuso> ok
<imbrandon> hrm i could just set it to repeat there's a tear in my beer from hank sr ;)
<imbrandon> j/k
<TheMuso> Well I'd better do another spec round to see what specs there are and make a final decision as to whether I want to attend them.
<Hobbsee> oh ok, everyon eleft :P
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, i was the last one in there and left
<Hobbsee> oh ok
<Hobbsee> hey rob
<imbrandon> i'll be back on in a few
<imbrandon> heya rob
<rob>  hi
<rob> gee the motu mailing list is pretty quiet
<highvoltage> if i want to package the flock browser and put it in revu, i'm allowed to do that, right?
<rob> whats the licence on that?
<zakame> hi all
<Hobbsee> hey zakame
<zakame> hi Hobbsee
<Gloubiboulga> heya Toadstool :)
<Toadstool> hi Gloubiboulga
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<koke> hey, I have someone asking if we can update tellico to a newer version
<koke> I have been motu-offline for a while so I'm not sure :)
<tseng> unless there is a really good reason, no
<tseng> same as always
<tseng> dapper is done, put a fork in it
<Hobbsee> for edgy though...
<tseng> edgy isnt open, and wont be usable for weeks
<tseng> therefore... "no"
<koke> ok, I was talking about edgy
<tseng> pool/main/t/tellico/tellico_1.1.5-1_i386.deb
<koke> I've seen http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/edgy/ existed and was not sure
<tseng> it will be synced by MoM anyway
<tseng> koke: you can upload to it, but it will be rejected
<tseng> and uploading a sync by hand will be rejected anyway
<tseng> he needs to wait for MoM to start
<\sh> sync is done from the sync team...it's automated, and MoM, we need to merge them manually ...if MoM ever runs again ;)
<\sh> moins btw
<lifeless> moin moin
<StevenK> moin moin moin
<lifeless> niom moin
<highvoltage> mediawiki
<StevenK> highvoltage: So you're hello unsecurely?
<StevenK> Er, saying hello
<highvoltage> StevenK: yep
* highvoltage changes hello to plone/zwiki
* highvoltage changes it to moinmoin
<highvoltage> there. cycle complete.
<StevenK> Only because plone is pig
<StevenK> Er, a pig
<StevenK> Jeez, I can't type tonight.
<Hobbsee> hi again everyone
<TheMuso> wb Hobbsee.
* Hobbsee is contemplating just passing out due to lack of sleep.
<Mithrandir> hiya, Hobbsee, TheMuso
<Hobbsee> hey Mithrandir
<Hobbsee> hey Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi Hobbsee  :)
<zul> heylo
<Hobbsee> hey zul
<TheMuso> Sweet! My gobby bug is fixed!
<zul> hey Hobbsee how is it going?
<Hobbsee> zul: absolutely exhausted, but apart from that, good :)
<zul> good why dont you go to bed then?
<Hobbsee> because it's not even 10pm yet...and i'm probably supposed to help with dishes before bed.
<zul> oic
<StevenK> Hobbsee: What have you been doing that has gotten you exhausted?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: uni exams, and 3 hours of sleep last night
<StevenK> Wheee
<insanekane> hi ... i have a <package>.install file ... in that file if i do usr/lib/share/* ... will everything under tmp/usr/lib/share/ be installed into my package directory ?
<\sh> insanekane: man dh_install :)
<insanekane> \sh: :)
<insanekane> \sh: ah thanks ... i just don't know enough about how this stuff works :/
<\sh> insanekane: http://www.debian.org/devel/join/newmaint
<\sh> insanekane: on this debian server there is a lot of stuff for starting and understanding debian packaging
<insanekane> \sh: aha ok
<insanekane> \sh: thanks much ... i think thats going to help a lot
<wij32> hey can someone help. im new to linux, just installed ubuntu, the grapihcal interface wont work with my monitor, its a 17" flat screen, any ideas?
<Hobbsee> wij32: ask in #ubuntu
<wij32> isnt this?
<Hobbsee> wij32: no, this is #ubuntu-motu
<Yagisan> G'day all. Dumb question, does dappers SDl mixer support .wav files ?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello Kamping_Kaiser
<Gloubiboulga> hi bddebian, hi Kamping_Kaiser
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Yagisan> G'day bddebian, Gloubiboulga, Kamping_Kaiser.
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi Yagisan
<bddebian> Hi Yagisan
<Gloubiboulga> hey Yagisan
<nooby_god> If I want to help out packageing software, where do I start?
<Kamping_Kaiser> wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU has some links
<Kamping_Kaiser> iirc
<nooby_god> alright
<Gloubiboulga> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide is a good start if you want to create new packages
<tuxmaniac> nooby_god> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/index.en.html#contents
<tuxmaniac> ^ good one too
<nooby_god> ok
<nooby_god> the first thing I want todo is to get Amarok 1.4 into the Universe
<_ion> nooby_god: It's already packaged.
<nooby_god> why am I unable to get it via synaptaic?
<_ion> ## http://people.ubuntu.com/~jriddell/kubuntu-packages-jriddell-key.gpg
<_ion> deb http://kubuntu.org/packages/amarok-latest dapper main
<nooby_god> is it stable?
<tuxmaniac> sudo apt-get install amarok
<tuxmaniac> it works here
<tuxmaniac> nooby_god>
<tuxmaniac> nooby_god> is your /etc/apt/sources.list correct ? I mean have you uncommented the lines pointing to the Universe?
<tuxmaniac> am off for dinner
<ogra> tuxmaniac, why should he, amarok is in main
<tuxmaniac> ah sorry then
<nooby_god> I'm running Ubuntu if that should mean anything
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ apt-cache madison amarok
<ogra>     amarok | 2:1.3.9-0ubuntu4 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Packages
<nooby_god> yeah, 1.3.9, not 1.4
<ogra> it will get updated to 1.4 in edgy automatically
<nooby_god> if I'm running Dapper, I won't get 1.4 then?
<bddebian> Probably not, unless someone backports it or it gets into dapper-updates
<ogra> nope unless its decided to take the risk to upgrade it via dapper-updates
<ogra> but thats very unlikely if the 1.3 version doesnt have bugs like "wipes your harddisk"
<nooby_god> argh, I'm from Gentoo, I'm so used to being on the bleeding edge
<ogra> ues edgy then if it opens ;)
<nooby_god> I'll just add  "http://kubuntu.org/amarok-14/ dapper main" to my sources.list
<nooby_god> that will work right?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i guess so ... (i dont go near QT stuff if i dont need)
<nooby_god> I got an error in synaptaic -> http://kubuntu.org/amarok-14/dists/dapper/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz: 404 Not Found
<nooby_god> nvm fixed it
<nooby_god> I'll start reading the MOTU docs right now, hopefully I can help with the Universe soon
<ogra> http://kubuntu.org/packages/amarok-latest/ should be the url
<nooby_god> actually amaok-stable has 1.4 too
<nooby_god> I should put that instead
<zakame> hi all
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<hub> ogra: Qt or QT?
<ogra> qt indeed :)
<ogra> :P
<ogra> or qT :)
<bddebian> or cutie
<ogra> htis strange C++ widget thingie, you know :)
<bddebian> :-)
<zakame> hi bddebian
<zakame> hi hub ogr	
<hub> ogra: QT is a proprietary multimedia framework, that I try to stay away from :-)
* hub has no issue with Qt however
<ogra> me neither, i simply dont touch it :)
<ogra> (either of both)
<Bazzi> all this hate against Qt =(
<ogra> Bazzi, i dont hate it (else i wouldnt ship it in edubuntu) i just dont like it and know there are better methods for GUI apps :)
<Bazzi> ogra: well I have heard so much political **** about Qt lately, it really hurts... great apps not ported to KDE/Qt because of some political BS... absolutely against free software morals
<Bazzi> no offense to you of course
<ogra> well, i'm not opposed if someone ports my apps to Qt, as long as i dont have to do it myself ...
<shenki> hi all
<shenki> I'm trying to set up a edgy chroot, by following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<shenki> and I was wondering, do I need to grab the updated debootstrap from the edgy repo, or is the one in dapper fine?
<ogra> haha
<ogra> edgy isnt even finished with basic setup on the buildds and initial archive imports
<ogra> relax :)
<shenki> yeah, i realise that
<shenki> i'm trying to teach myself packaging
<ogra> usually you will set up a dapper chroot and upgrade that to edgy then
<shenki> with the goal of packaging an app up and potentially getting it in edgy
<shenki> ah, okay
<ogra> same goes for pbuilder
<shenki> cheers
<pschulz01> Greetings.. can anyone point me to some documentation for creating multiple binary packages from a single source package?
<bddebian> Debian New Maintainers Guide?
<pschulz01> bddebian, I'll have a look, thanks.
<pschulz01> bddebian, Hmm.. not obvious where the information is.
<bddebian> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<pschulz01> bddebian, Sorry.. let me rephrase that.. the maint-guide doesn;t go into this detail.. looks like I need the Developer's manuals.
<pschulz01> http://www.debian.org/doc/devel-manuals
<bddebian> Ah, sorry
<pschulz01> Hmm.. I remember reading something, but I can't remember which document it was. (I think my mind is going.)
<zakame> developers-reference?
<pschulz01> Where is that?
<zakame> apt-get -y install developers-reference
<pschulz01> Ahh, found the package.
<pschulz01> Thanks.
<pschulz01> Section 6.1.3.
<pschulz01> (A start anyway.)
<pschulz01> Doesn't really say how though.
<shenki> another question on the chroot setup, trying to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<shenki> in trying to get the locales working properly, i installed the packages suggested, however I still get http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15767
<shenki> orga? you still around?
<shenki> ogra, excuse my typing
<bddebian> shenki: That is just a warning
<ogra> i am
<shenki> bddebian: isn't it warning me that I dont have any locale settings configured?
<shenki> sorry ogra, just when I thought no-one was around, everyone comes running :)
<bddebian> shenki: Yes but defaulting to 'C' won't "hurt" you
<shenki> okay
<shenki> any ideas why it isnt working? taking to another user in -au, and he has the same problem on his actual system
<bddebian> What happens?
<Kamping_Kaiser> bddebian, its not going to 'hurt' me, but it did work on dapper untill stable (or i didnt notice an issue before that), and its an error that clogs up the screen on a simple apt-get install
<shenki> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15768
<shenki> ta-da, Kamping_Kaiser is the user I speak of :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<ogra> shenki, thats fine for a chroot you use for building stuff ...
<shenki> yeah, that's what I was thinking. but I thought I'd ask the quesiton, considering Kamping_Kaiser has the same problem
<ogra> for an actual system use: locale-gen en_AU.UTF-8
<shenki> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15769 - that's what I get from 'dpkg-reconfigure locales'
<Kyral_FreeBSD> oy recompiling Apache,,,,GO!
<bddebian> shenki: Did you try locale-gen as ogra suggested?
<ogra> i didnt say anything about dpkg-reconfigure
<shenki> ogra, that's the command that the howto instructs you to use to set the locale settings
* Kamping_Kaiser grumbles about new ways to generate locales, after hes done it one way for yonks
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, i seem to get the same erroro still.
<ogra> shenki, yes, thats true for breezy and before
<Kamping_Kaiser> is there a way to get that ncurses selection thing that you could choose locales from?
<ogra> nope
<Kamping_Kaiser> :'(
<ogra> thats obsolete
<ogra> use locale-gen
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh, i probably have to log out and in for those changes to stick *realises*
<ogra> (and make sure to have the langpacks installed)
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh well :/ time to advance
<shenki> ogra, that worked
<ogra> and even better use the GUI language tool ;)
<shenki> the locale-gen command
<shenki> thankyou
<ogra> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, i have this issue after useing the tool, hence the problem ;)
<shenki> so that command replaces 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' in the howto for dapper?
<ogra> no idea
<ogra> i havent read many dapper howtos apart from ltsp stuff i wrote myself :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> shenki, spose so, but its 'sudo locale-gen <yourlangCaseSensitve>
<Kamping_Kaiser> `sudo locale-gen en_AU.UTF-8` works, `sudo locale-gen en_au.utf-8` doesnt
<ogra> who said it would be .utf-8 ? :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> my shift finger ;)
<ogra> *g*
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Laser_away> bah, the DebootsrapChroot howto need to be fixed
<Laser_away> I might have to do that before Paris
<Laser_away> but I need to figure ot the sudo bit
* Kamping_Kaiser looks at howto
<Kamping_Kaiser> which bit Laser_away ?
<Laser_away> well, infinity suggested that the whole "setting up sudo in the chroot" was bad
<Laser_away> I need to figure out what exactly we should have there
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh
<Spec> My debian/rules file, under clean: has   "rm $(CURDIR)/cxacru-fw" ... now when I try to build the package, and that file doesn't exist, make errors and exits...
<Spec> What should I put in debian/rules to make it only delete the file if it exists and/or not care if it doesn't exist?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> crap I nuked /usr/build/libtool
<Kyral_FreeBSD> WTF is that for anyway...
<Laser_away> hehe, remind me never to give you ssh access on my  machines ;-)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Well, it was because I botched the Apache install
<Kyral_FreeBSD> so I though that was put there by Apache :P
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I mean /usr/bin/libtool was fine
<Kyral_FreeBSD> ah well a little symlink and its happy
<Laser_away> heh
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I can't believe Debian doesn't have Apache 2.2
<Kyral_FreeBSD> oh wait its Debian...nevermind
<lucas> ah ah ah.
<lucas> Debian has been having a non-RC-buggy nbd since end of january, while we released dapper with a RC-buggy nbd in main.
<lucas> who wins ?
<ogra> you mean network block device support ?
<ogra> what should be buggy about it ?
<jamessan> Spec: put a '-' before the 'rm'.  that tells make to ignore failures
<lucas> http://www.grep.be/blog/2006/06/14/#ubuntu_main_and_Debian_Developers
<lucas> (for ogra)
<Yagisan> :( crap. failed dapper upgrade
<Yagisan> ajmitch: zope & plone didn't like going breezy -> dapper
<LaserJock> yikes, I don't think I  get anything -devel is talking about
<LaserJock> I guess I'm not geeky enough ;-)
* crimsun_ fights ^H
<LaserJock> ?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: nested screen sessions
<LaserJock> ah
<crimsun_> they're screwing my stty erase
<shenki> I was wondering, how does one go about packaging a python program that uses a python 'setup.py' instead of a makefile? do i need to write a makefile, or..?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> call dh_python?
<LaserJock> shenki: no, just run it in debian/rules
<shenki> Kyral_FreeBSD: I'm learning packaging, this is my first go... i'll have a look at dh_python
<LaserJock> dh_python won't build it
<shenki> do you know of any packages which use that method? I was trying to look for an example
<LaserJock> dh_python it will add some stuff to the postinst script
<LaserJock> shenki: one I packaged is gausssum
<shenki> cheers
<LaserJock> shenki: there are probably many others though
* Yagisan frantically starts downgrading packages in an attempt to get his his back in working order
<shenki> yes. it's hard to find info, google doesnt help because it just finds info on packaging python, not python apps
<LaserJock> right
<crimsun_> it's actually quite easy to find
<crimsun_> google://"debian python policy setup.py"
* Yagisan learns new lesson for today. package x.y.z to z.y.z+1 is not a "small bugfix".
<LaserJock> crimsun_: bah, of course for you it is. Some of use dummy heads don't find things that easily ;-)
<shenki> ah. yes. search for the file, good thinking
<LaserJock> shenki: really the Python Policy manual would be a good thing to check out if you haven't already
<shenki> LaserJock: I did just find something that was named similar to 'debian python policy', but it was a one-page piece of unusefullness
<shenki> it appears to be exactly what I was looking for :) thanks
<Yagisan> w00t. my website is back. now to backup again, and try each package, 1 by 1, till I see which needs a bug report
* Yagisan lays odds it was the zope2.8 package
<LaserJock> shenki: www.debian.org/devel has a link to the Python Policy
<shenki> LaserJock: ah, yes, that's the one im looking for. will keep that /devel site bookmarked tho, it's one of those things I wish I had about 3 hours ago :)
<LaserJock> yep
<crimsun_> man, scott, adam, et al. must have been fighting the archive all week{,end}
<LaserJock> what's the problem, I'm not really getting what they're doing
<crimsun_> I guess it's time for that billionth chroot
<crimsun_> LaserJock: fixing $stuff so edgy can open
<crimsun_> archive, toolchain, etc.
<crimsun_> oh sweet, most of my local packages will be upgraded because of the syncs :D
<truzak> hello, whats the difference bw sun-java5-bin and sun-java5-jre packages? (both have same desc. as JRE)
<crimsun_> truzak: -jre has arch-indep files; -bin has arch-dep files
<Yagisan> hmm. breakage wasn't zope2.8. just 14 packages to hunt through
<crimsun_> truzak: not to mention you have to accept the EULA to install -jre
<LaserJock> crimsun_: EULA for -bin too, no?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: one of them has the debconf "issue", don't remember which
<crimsun_> (same bug is triggered by flashplugin-nonfree)
<LaserJock> crimsun_: well, that's been fixed
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if it has hit the archives though
<LaserJock> I used java5's debconf for my packaging job that should be hitting dapper any time now
<crimsun_> madison isn't showing it locally, so it may have just waiting for pulse
<crimsun_> EGRAMMAR
<LaserJock> isn't showing what?
<crimsun_> updated sun-java5
<crimsun_> uh oh, scott updated MoM's pool
<crimsun_> are we ready? :D
<LaserJock> what bug are you specifically talking about, the one where it doesn't present for pre-release Dapper installs?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: yes
<bddebian> Heya crimsun_
<crimsun_> 'lo bddebian
<LaserJock> crimsun_: yeah, it is in the SVN or whatever they are using, but I think they might be waiting to upload it
<crimsun_> sweet, time for me to punt some changes to edgy
* bddebian uploads crimsun_ to Edgy :-)
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
<crimsun_> bddebian: that's a pretty spectacular reject
<nooby_god> Can some one explain this whole .deb thin gand respitory thing to me? I'm only used to emerge
<jpatrick> bddebian: he might break
<Spec> jamessan: thanks :)
<bddebian> crimsun_: Heh
<bddebian> nooby_god: emerge is a source based right?
<crimsun_> nooby_god: it's pretty straightforward. Yanno how portage can source? That's what we upload to the holding area (hence compiled on buildds to generate binary debs).
<neutrinomass> Is it a bad idea to write .desktops that put stuff under System->Administration instead of Applications->System ? Because I've heard that Ubuntu is moving away from the latter ...
<crimsun_> portage works with, rather
<neutrinomass> bddebian: Yes, it grabs tarballs and builds them....
<LaserJock> neutrinomass: might be a good question for -devel or seb128 anyway
<nooby_god> portage is bassicly a much of scripts that download the source, check for the deps and builds it
<Spec> yeap
<nooby_god> explain this whole main, restricted, universe, multiverse thing
<nooby_god> I don;t get it
<bddebian> main == supported by Canonical
<neutrinomass> LaserJock: Hm.. -devel the ML or the channel ? I haven't seen him in a while
<crimsun_> that's a faq, ask the bot about components
<bddebian> Universe == unsupported
<Spec> restricted = non free supported by canonical
<Spec> multiverse = non free unsupported
<LaserJock> http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components
<LaserJock> neutrinomass: you might try the channel first
<nooby_god> ok, when I add respitories to my sources.list it;s like 'deb some.url dapper main'
<nooby_god> what does the dapper and main part me
<nooby_god> *mean
<crimsun_> distribution and component, respectively.
<neutrinomass> LaserJock: OK. I'm heading off from some cigs and will pop in there in a while ...
<crimsun_> man 5 sources.list
<nooby_god> so if I misslable one of the respitories has a wrong component, what happens?
<crimsun_> you get an error.
<LaserJock> you don't get it
<nooby_god> ah, thank you
<nooby_god> I'm currently trying to figure out what is the procedure for one to get Amarok 1.4 into the main respitory
<nooby_god> Kubuntu already has the deb and everything is packaged
<Spec> I've uploaded a package to revu, with a slightly different version number (1.2-1 -> 1.2-2), revu will know that it's the newer version of the same package, right?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Spec> and is it possible to comment on your own package in revu?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Spec> how?
<Yagisan> upgrade/downgrade upgrade/downgrade upgrade/downgrade. I'm getting a headache sorting the zope packages into "this breaks" and "this works"
<Spec> :p
<LaserJock> Spec: you log in and go to your package :-)
<crimsun_> nooby_god: path of least resistance is edgy/main (which should be fairly straightforward)
<Spec> login with wiki credentials?
<crimsun_> nooby_god: path of very high resistance is dapper-updates/main
<nooby_god> why would it be high resistance?
<nooby_god> I thought that Amarok was supported?
<nooby_god> shouldn't be a good thing that's being upgrated?
<Yagisan> nooby_god: not always
<Yagisan> nooby_god: bug fix, yes. new features, no
<Yagisan> s/bug fix/security bug fix/
<Spec> ah hah, password recovery...i don't recall setting that password though, must've been autogenerated
<crimsun_> nooby_god: -updates is for gnome-desktop (core, stable branch fixes, with standing exception), translations, and trivial critical fixes
<LaserJock> nooby_god: it is important that a particular release be stable and well integrated
<nooby_god> ah, wonderful
<nooby_god> well, I'll give up on that
<LaserJock> give up on what?
<nooby_god> nvm
<LaserJock> doh, I wondered why my other machine was slow, I had 3 vnc sessions running at the same time
<ogra> fix vnc then :)
<LaserJock> and with another user on it and having only 256MB RAM, well ... I'm stupid
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> I didn't think it used to be that slow
<LaserJock> I kept killing the vnc on :1 but there were 3 others I didn't know about :-)
<nooby_god> if there is a deb for a piece of software for debian but not in the debian respitory, how would one try to package that for ubuntu?
<Yagisan> found the bugger. zope-resourceregistries from breezy to dapper = no website
<Yagisan> ajmitch: would that be yours ? ^^
<LaserJock> nooby_god: generally that shouldn't be the case, we grab the Debian unstable packages automatically at the beginning of each release cycle
<nooby_god> LaserJock: it's not in the debian respitories
<nooby_god> the deb is found on the website
<nooby_god> http://www.mercury.to/index.php?page=Downloads
<LaserJock> nooby_god: ahh, then either you would need to get the source package from the authors or make you're own source package
<nooby_god> it's a requested piece -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates?highlight=%28CategoryMOTU%29
<LaserJock> nooby_god: yeah, go for it :-)
<nooby_god> LaserJock: I don't think it's opensource
<LaserJock> hmm, that always stinks
<nooby_god> it's a closed source java program
<LaserJock> ah
<nooby_god> but's a very good piece of software
<LaserJock> well,  it could perhaps go in Multiverse if it is redistributable
<nooby_god> It's in gentoo's portage, let me check
<nooby_god> LaserJock: there is no licencing info anywhere, but the ebuild does not point to the official server, some one else is distributing it
<nooby_god> it's a little risky so I wont do it. I'll find another peice of software
<LaserJock> yeah, closed source isn't fun
<nooby_god> well I found another piece of software, the Last.fm player
<_ion> It's GPL IIRC.
<_ion> And already packaged.
<nooby_god> really?
<nooby_god> I guess I'll pick something eles
<_ion> http://packages.debian.org/src:lastfm
<_ion> In fact, it's available for Ubuntu as well from my repository. (I update the packages i've taken from Debian every once in a while.)
<_ion> Ubuntu dapper, that is.
<insanekane> nooby_god: looking for something to package ?
<nooby_god> yeah
<nooby_god> want to start
<nooby_god> is there a 'to package' lsit?
<bddebian> There used to be a wiki page for packages that users have requested
<nooby_god> I'm goiong through that right now
<bddebian> Ah
<nooby_god> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates -> this one right?
<jason__> LaserJock there?
<insanekane> nooby_god: could you package kastrolog ?
<bddebian> nooby_god: Yeah, that's it
<LaserJock> jason__: heah, hi!
<nooby_god> I'll try insanekane
<nooby_god> It would be my first piece of software to package
<LaserJock> jason__: so you rebuilt the source package, but it dies in when you try to run pbuilder on it?
<nooby_god> insanekane: do you know the procedure for packaging and then uploading software?
<nooby_god> I'm actually a little confused
<nooby_god> I package it, sign it, upload it to REVU then?
<jason__> actually it finished correctly, but I can't find the .deb file
<insanekane> nooby_god: not much ... i'm just starting out like you ... but i guess i'm ahead because i started by looking at existing packages
<LaserJock> nooby_god: http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<insanekane> nooby_god: hehe ... i havent gotten that far :)
<LaserJock> jason__: ok, what did you use to set up the pbuilder? the packaging guide?
<jason__> yes
<LaserJock> nooby_god: more or less
<jason__> I just install and run "pbuilder create" command
<nooby_god> I'll start off with Kastrolog then
<jason__> yes I used the packaging guide
<LaserJock> jason__: ok, then it should be in /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<Spec> LaserJock: why vnc over freenx? :)
<LaserJock> Spec: because freenx has never really worked that well for me
<Spec> aww, it's so fast the two times i've implemented it
<LaserJock> Spec: vnc over ssh tunnel works pretty well for my situation
<Spec> except it's slow :)
<Spec> ssh adds a bit of overhead as well
<LaserJock> well, it works, which is better than I can say for freenx ;-)
<jason__> yes there is..
<Spec> hehehe
<LaserJock> jason__: you should have quite a few files in there, one of which should be a .deb
<jason__> yes you are right. there are .diff.gz, .dsc, .changes and orig.tar.gz too..
<LaserJock> yeah, those are copies of the source package, but you have then already
<jason__> LaserJock: So if I change the desktop-multiplier in the future, then I will send you the source package..
<LaserJock> jason__: yeah, but really any MOTU (devs who can upload to Universe and Multiverse) could do it
<insanekane> how do we find out which package a file has come from ?
<LaserJock> dpkg -S
<jason__> OK thanks,
<LaserJock> jason__: but if you test out the building with pbuilder it will help a lot
<LaserJock> jason__: but we can certainly help  if you get stuck or anything
<jason__> ok
<insanekane> nooby_god: cool :)
<bddebian> LaserJock: You don't help me??? :-)
<LaserJock> I don't?
<bddebian> I was joking.  Notice the :-)
<nooby_god> if I want to set up pbuilder the command would be sudo pbuilder create --distribution dapper correct?
<gloubiboulga> yes, but you'll have to upgrade to edgy after creating it if you want to test new packages
<nooby_god> well I'm packaging a piece of software for the universe
<nooby_god> so dapper will do right?
<bddebian> Set your pbuilder up with Edgy
<bddebian> New packages won't get in Dapper anyway
<gloubiboulga> no, dapper is closed, all the new package will go to edgy
<nooby_god> ah
<gloubiboulga> packages*
<nooby_god> does any one here use Edgy?
<bddebian> I am trying to upgrade one of my boxes as we speak
<gloubiboulga> i have edgy in a chroot
<nooby_god> I can still create packages for Edgy in Dapper right?
<nooby_god> and is Edgy stable at all?
<bddebian> nooby_god: With the pbuilder, yes
<nooby_god> ok bddebian
<nooby_god> so the command I would do right now would be  sudo pbuilder create --distribution edgy
<crimsun_> s/edgy/dapper/
* Yagisan is annoyed. plone can't go from breezy -> dapper. without breaking into unusable bits. :(
<bddebian> Yes, or you can build a dapper pbuilder first, then upgrade to dapper
<crimsun_> bddebian: err, dapper's pbuilder already knows about edgy?
<bddebian> Ack, upgrade to edgy
<nooby_god> is there a safe way to upgrate to edgy?
<nooby_god> no wait, I'll stick with something stable
<bddebian> crimsun_: Oh, hmmm, good point
<nooby_god> I get an error when I run pbuilder
<nooby_god> E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/edgy
<nooby_god> but I have debootstrap
<ivoks> but not edgy :)
<LaserJock> nooby_god: dapper deboostrap doesn't know about edgy
<LaserJock> nooby_god: you can build a dapper pbuilder and then upgrade it
<nooby_god> so I would have to upgrate to edgy inorder to start packaginf?
<nooby_god> LaserJock: how?
<crimsun_> --distribution dapper
<LaserJock> pbuilder create --distribution dapper
<bddebian> nooby_god: Yeah that was my fault sorry, I wasn't thinking about the pbuilder end
<crimsun_> change pbuilder's sources.list, then update --override-config
<nooby_god>  then I run sudo pbuilder update --distribution edgy --override-config
<LaserJock> yeah
<crimsun_> no drop the --distribution after you've created a pbuilder $base.tgz
<crimsun_> --distribution implies pbuilder knows about the parameter passed to it.
<LaserJock> oh, hmm
<nooby_god> I just ran sudo pbuilder create --distribution dapper --othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper universe multiverse"
<nooby_god> then what do i do then?
<LaserJock> did it work?
<crimsun_> you edit pbuilder's sources.list, :%s/dapper/edgy/, then update --override-config
<nooby_god> yeah, that command just ran
<nooby_god> so many damn libs
<LaserJock> nooby_god: hmm, where is his sources.list going to be?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: (misaddress?) I presume people are using ~/.pbuilderrc
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> all commandline
<LaserJock> at least that's how I set up the Packaging Guide
<crimsun_> it's a Really Good idea to use ~/.$pbuildderrc
<LaserJock> dang it, Matthew Palmer told me not too
<LaserJock> I went through it all and did a fair amount of work to get this right :/
<crimsun_> and instead use /etc/pbuilderrc?
<LaserJock> yes
<nooby_god> wouldn't pbuilder store the sources.list inside of the chroot?
<LaserJock> nooby_god: yes, but it is a matter of where it gets it
<nooby_god>  /etc/apt/sources.list?
<crimsun_> and what if you 1) don't have control over /etc/pbuilderrc [but are granted sudo for pbuilder]  and/or run multiple pbuilders?
<LaserJock> that is the point
<LaserJock> I use a script in ~/bin
<crimsun_> I fall under both of those categories
<LaserJock> me too
<LaserJock> alll though more under multiple pbuilders than not having access
<crimsun_> I keep ~/.pbuilderrc.dapper{,-backports}, ~/.pbuilderrc.hoary, ~/.pbuilderrc.breezy{,-backports}
<LaserJock> right, Matthew Palmer said that was all unnecessary
* Yagisan uses /etc/pbuilderrc and pbuilders apt sources live in /etc/pbuilder/apt.config/sources.list
<nooby_god> pbuilder just finished creating bast.tgz for dapper
<LaserJock> pbuilder comes with a script, my modified version for dapper is http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15776
<LaserJock> that is all I use
<LaserJock> no pbuilderrc or sources.list stuff
<nooby_god> if I want to upgrate to pbuilder edgy I need to edit my sources.list and then run pbuilder update --distribution edgy right?
<LaserJock> I just have a new script for each pbuilder (only modifying DISTRIBUTION)
<LaserJock> nooby_god: don't edit /etc/apt/sources.list
<Yagisan> one day, I'll get around to redoing it more like crimsun_.
<nooby_god> I would edit.....
<LaserJock> Yagisan: I used to do it that way
<crimsun_> LaserJock: sure, you can do it that way.
<LaserJock> nooby_god: that's what we are discussing
* nooby_god watches intensely
<LaserJock> crimsun_: but my question is does that break upgrading?
<LaserJock> bah, I've got a meeting right now
<LaserJock> bbiab
<crimsun_> LaserJock: you've always got a corner case at the beginning of each devel cycle anyway
<Yagisan> mm. kernel update. time to reboot the router.
<crimsun_> at that point you either have to edit your script, or you have to edit ~/.$pbuilderrc
<Laser_away> yeah, I'm just wondering if I made the Packaging Guide flawed by doing it that way
<crimsun_> no, the packaging guide is fine
<crimsun_> you can't get around editing /something/
<nooby_god> ok, I have a pbuilder for dapper, I want to upgrate to a pbuilder for edgy so I can create stuff for universe
<nooby_god> what do i do people
<crimsun_> nooby_god: in this case you either modify Laser_away's script, or you edit pbuilder's sources.list
<crimsun_> (this is the cornercase I'm referring to)
<nooby_god> crimsun_: what did you do?
<crimsun_> nooby_god: I'm a conffile whore. I like ~/.$pbuilderrc and $sources.list
<nooby_god> so i'll do that then
<nooby_god> where is pbuilders sources.list?
<crimsun_> if you didn't modify anything, it's /etc/apt/sources.list
<crimsun_> which is why you would either use a script or manually use command line parameters
<nooby_god> Can 't I just run "sudo pbuilder update --distribution edgy --override-config --othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy universe multiverse" ?
<nooby_god> to upgrate to edgy without modifying anything?
<crimsun_> nooby_god: no. "edgy" is not known to pbuilder, so you can't pass it as an argument to --distribution
<nooby_god> oops, I just ran it
<nooby_god> it seems to be working though
<crimsun_> it may work due to --override-config --othermirror
<crimsun_> both of those supercede --distribution
<nooby_god> ah
<nooby_god> well it works, that's all that matters right now
<nooby_god> thank you though crimsun_
<bddebian> Hmm, is doomlegacy gone?
<crimsun_> nooby_god: np
<bddebian> Later gang
<ryanakca> I have a suggestion for the REVU site: put a search thingy...
<crimsun_> that's in the cards for revu2 afaik
<crimsun_> in the meanwhile, use your browser's excellent Find
<Kyral_FreeBSD> oy
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Day destroyed by recompiling Apache and PHP
<gloubiboulga> on hurd? :)
<Spec> hurd runs?
<nooby_god> Does anyone have something that I could use as my first package?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Spec: yah
<Kyral_FreeBSD> gloubiboulga: no this was my production box
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Debian doesn't have the updated Apache or PHP so I spent the day recompiling from source
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Found out Debian messes with the apache layout too much
<zyga> hey
<Kyral_FreeBSD> even with the --enable-layout=Debian compile opt
<zyga> has anyone seen lucas recently?
<gloubiboulga> Kyral_FreeBSD, you should use ubuntu, it's a great distro ;)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I'm gonna construct a new VM from HLFS to replace this one
<Kyral_FreeBSD> gloubiboulga: And what? Wind up with the same crap Debian gave me?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Honestly the default Apache Config layout is better IMO
<Kyral_FreeBSD> none of this "mods-enabled" "mods-disabled" crap
<gloubiboulga> Kyral_FreeBSD, it was just a joke :)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I compiled the mods I needed into Apache and it was happy
<Spec> I like the mods-enabled/mods-disabled and sites-enabled/sites-disabled crap :p
<Kyral_FreeBSD> osryr I owrked on this for like 7 hours
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Had to recompile mod_perl
<Kyral_FreeBSD> had to recompile mod_security
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I'm just like "WTF why don't I just recompile the whole shabang"
<gloubiboulga> I'm off to bed, g'night
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Seems to be faster...less memory useage
<nooby_god> if there is no ubuntu source package for a peice of software is it still nessessary to make an ubuntu folder?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> ubuntu folder what?
<nooby_god> according to the guide -> http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
<nooby_god> mkdir ~/hello-debhelper
<nooby_god> cd ~/hello-debhelper
<Kyral_FreeBSD> no paste
<nooby_god> wget http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/hello/hello-2.1.1.tar.gz
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I get it
<nooby_god> mkdir ubuntu
<nooby_god> cd ubuntu
<nooby_god> Then, get the Ubuntu source package:
<nooby_god> apt-get source hello-debhelper
<nooby_god> cd ..
<nooby_god> ops
<nooby_god> *oops
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I thougth you meant in place of the Debian dir
<zyga> nooby_god: the directory you make is necessary for the package
<nooby_god> even if there is no source package in the respitory?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I think its just a workzone
<Kyral_FreeBSD> so you keep all the clutter in one place
<zyga> nooby_god: yeah, you don't want to mess your ~ do  you?
<nooby_god> ok
<zyga> (easier to bzr init and rm -rf)
<nooby_god> oh, what do I do if dh_make get's the version wrong?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> man dh_make
<nooby_god> the version is 5.4-1.1, but dh_make says the version is 5.4
<zyga> nooby_god: bad directory name
<nooby_god> yes it is zyga, should I do anything?
<nooby_god> or let it be?
<zyga> nooby_god: probably rename it but I'm not too good at packaging
<zyga> seek advice from those who know better
<nooby_god> Does anyone know better here?
<zyga> nooby_god: just curious, did you triple check that you are not doing something that is already done (the package you make is really not in any archive)
<nooby_god> yes
<nooby_god> well actually this may make sense, the package name
<nooby_god> the version name is  kastrolog-5.4-1.1
<nooby_god> it's based on astrolog 5.4, and it's version 1.1
* zyga would like a consistent source package format 
<Kyral_FreeBSD> there is
<Kyral_FreeBSD> its called tar.gz
<zyga> Kyral_FreeBSD: yeah, same as unix standard, it's called man
<Kyral_FreeBSD> yup
<zyga> I was rather thinking about debian source packages
* Kyral_FreeBSD shrugs
<Kyral_FreeBSD> You do realize that deb-srcs are just the tar.gz + the diff.gz
<zyga> yeah, and +foo.gz where foo is appropriate according to packager, foo varies greatly
<Kyral_FreeBSD> foo by its nature is meant to vary greatly :P
<zyga> maybe there should be no random foo then?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> but alas, foo is standard too :P
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Just like its cousin, bar :P
<zyga> but then again foobar is not a good sign in the code you have to maintain
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I use it to finish off a case statement where I expect the condition to never have been met :P
<zyga> and define it as weak alias to be sure it's not worrying the linker ;-) ?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> something like bool foo = true; (something that might modify foo); if( !foo ) { <something> } else if( foo ) { something else } else { cout << The Laws of The Universe have been violated, this error is the least of your problems; }
<Kyral_FreeBSD> :P
<zyga> cout, ouch!
<Kyral_FreeBSD> it was C++ jeez
<zyga> yeah, jeez told us to use c
<Kyral_FreeBSD> ...don't bring up this fight C boy
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I was taught C++ before C
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I like C++. I like Vectors damnit :P
<zyga> c is ugly but necessary and mature in a way
<Kyral_FreeBSD> like Perl!
<zyga> c++ is still young and forming IMHO
<zyga> oh and I like python :)
* Kyral_FreeBSD falls down
<zyga> but I really don't see either as good
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Actually they are supposed to be releasing the next specification of C++ in like the next year or so
<zyga> c0x? or what was the draft called?
<Kyral_FreeBSD> C++0x
<Kyral_FreeBSD> I think
<zyga> oh, forgot about++ :)
<Kyral_FreeBSD> Perl is quite nice
<hub> zyga: C++ is mature
<zyga> hub: did you read that spec? it's like 100% new features and that's not mature IMO
<Kyral_FreeBSD> oy...the battle between C and C++ is like the battle between Vim and Emacs...
<zyga> Kyral_FreeBSD: I shall silently ignore that
<Kyral_FreeBSD> So new features == new and immature regardless of how old the language is
<Kyral_FreeBSD> wow, then by your reasoning everything is immature compared to ASM :P
<zyga> Kyral_FreeBSD: mature is a way to say it's in maintenance mode, not revolution; I feel c++ to be closer to the latter
<nooby_god> how would I find out what a program depends on?
<zyga> nooby_god: ldd on the binary is a good start, building it in pbuilder is recommended
<zyga> checking out what #includes/imports/uses it has
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-16
<jdmpike> hello masters of the universe!
<sladen> hello jdmpike, we're coming to the rescue!
<jdmpike> how do I request that a package is added - I would like to see slcreator added to the repos because it looks like an easy version of dvdstyler so I can make dvd movies with music of my pictures easily
<sladen> jdmpike: try to get it into Debian is the easiest way
<sladen> jdmpike: request that Debian add it, and then we get it automatically
<jdmpike> there is a .deb built for it - how do you get it into deb?
<jdmpike> also - thanks for all of the upgrades today/yesterday!
<nooby_god> Does anyone know of a simple program that I can use to help me learn how to package?
<crimsun_> nooby_god: are you following the Packaging Guide/
<nooby_god> this one -> http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/
<crimsun_> well, that /is/ the simple one to help you learn :)
<nooby_god> something a little more realistic?
<crimsun_> meaning ...
<nooby_god> a lot of the programs that are on the Canditate page require a lot more configuration, unless I'm misunderstanding everything
<nooby_god> Is there another to help motu and ubuntu in general besides packaging new programs?
<zul> documentation bug triaging etc
<nooby_god> I'll take a look into that
<imbrandon> morning motu's
<LaserJock> crimsun_: I got the sysadmin for the chem department (a MS student in CS) to want to learn packaging :-)
<crimsun_> LaserJock: neat
<LaserJock> crimsun_: he is a former Gentoo user like me, mwuahahahah ;-)
<nooby_god> crimsun_: I was trying http://delineate.sourceforge.net,
<nooby_god> LaserJock: still use Gentoo at all?
<LaserJock> nooby_god: no, haven't for about a year now
<LaserJock> nooby_god: I like the distro, I just like Ubuntu more :-)
<LaserJock> and since I'm really supposed to be working on my PhD I can't mess around with 2 distros at a time :-)
<nooby_god> I still have to use it for some servers, it's completely different from almost all the distros
<nooby_god> creating ebuilds was soooo much easier then creating debs
<crimsun_> does delineate even run with gcj?
<LaserJock> nooby_god: it's not too bad once you get the hang of it. I think the finished product is well worth the intial learning curve
<nooby_god> crimsun_: not sure
<LaserJock> nooby_god: you might want to look at some existing packages, and figure out what they're doing
<nooby_god> I guess I could work on an easier piece of software
<nooby_god> LaserJock: I took a look already
<nooby_god> GnoCHM is requested and already has debian source/bin packages. What would I have to do to get it into ubuntu?
<crimsun_> it'll be synced in automatically
<crimsun_> err, if it is in Debian
<nooby_god> oh
<TheMuso> Gobby is really cool.
<TheMuso> Hey all btw.
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<crimsun_> routing is completely screwed.
<crimsun_> hmm, is packages.qa.debian.org reachable for anyone?
<imbrandon> not i crimsun_
<imbrandon> times out
<nooby_god> I can't get to it crimsun_
* imbrandon reaches normal packages.debian.org fine though
<crimsun_> yeah, that works
<imbrandon> crimsun_, edgy sync's testing not unstable correct ?
<crimsun_> no, unstable
<imbrandon> ahhh ok *slaps head*
<crimsun_> gnochm 0.9.7-1 will be synced
<imbrandon> hows the edgy build tools thing coming along ?
<crimsun_> (/topic in -devel n' all))
<imbrandon> oooh
<imbrandon> duh i'm dense sometimes
<imbrandon> so with edgy "open" we can upload to universe ? ( after revu and rebuild with edgy toolchain and such )
<imbrandon> ?
<crimsun_> you can upload now if you really want to, but if it's an X app, it'd be silly to upload now
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> its not
<imbrandon> but thats good to know so X isnt built yet?
<imbrandon> guess i should look at edgy-changes
<crimsun_> I don't know if anything has been decided about the 7.1
<TheMuso> What has to happen to get a package into dapper-updates? There have been a few important bugfixes for gobby which everybody should benefit from.
<crimsun_> TheMuso: are the changes critical bugfixes and trivially self-contained?
<TheMuso> crimsun_: I believe so. The bugs are filed against the gobby package. One bug prevented gobby from working with accessibility stuff in GNOME, and the other is a copy and paste bug.
<crimsun_> TheMuso: got a debdiff?
<TheMuso> Not as yet. I am not sure how I should apply these patches against the package, in terms of building it.
<TheMuso> It is a standard rules file using debhelper.
<TheMuso> No other patches exist as far as I can see in the original source package.
<crimsun_> right, so you'd follow the "use whatever patch system Debian already has" guideline
<TheMuso> But the package isn't using any afaik.
<crimsun_> in this case, you'd patch directly
<TheMuso> Directly meaning that I just patch the source, and the patch gets included in the diff.gz?
<crimsun_> yep
<TheMuso> Ok thanks.
<crimsun_> then you can generate debdiff, attach to BTS report, etc.
<TheMuso> Will do.
<crimsun_> (dinner)
<nooby_god> what do I do if the source comes in a tgz instead of a tar.gz
<crimsun_> (that is a tar.gz)
<nooby_god> will the different file name messup anything?
<imbrandon> you could probbly just rename it as a tgz is exactly the same as a tar.gz
<imbrandon> when you debianize it
<imbrandon> brb
<crimsun_> nooby_god: depends what you plan to use, but generally making it the orig.tar.gz works
<susana_> holaa
<bddebian> Howdy gang
<TheMuso> Ok. If a MOTU could have a look at the debdiff attached to Malone #49780 and upload for dapper-updates, that would be great. Thanks.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 49780 in gobby "Gobby crashes upon load when GNOME accessibility options are turned on." [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49780
<bmonty> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<bmonty> I don't think we can upload for dapper updates yet
<bddebian> We can request it, we can't actually upload I don't think
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<TheMuso> But anyway. IMO it is kinda important since many of us will be using gobby next week.
<bmonty> is there a launchpad team that needs to be subscribed to the bug?
<bddebian> I won't be so what do I care? ;-P
<bddebian> j/k
<TheMuso> bmonty: I don't know. Is there?
<bmonty> TheMuso: you need to change the distro in your patch to dapper-updates
<TheMuso> bmonty: You mean in the changelog?
<bmonty> TheMuso: yup
<TheMuso> ah ok
<crimsun_> yep, otherwise the debdiff looks good
<TheMuso> forgot about that. :)
<crimsun_> when you finish, ping mdz about it, get his approval
<nooby_god> what is the GTK package called?
<TheMuso> Ok.
<bddebian> nooby_god: Which one?
<nooby_god> GTK+
<nooby_god> versin 2.8
<bddebian> nooby_god: 'apt-cache dump |grep <guess>' is your friend :-)
<TheMuso> This kinda stuff shows me that I am nowhere near ready for MOTU status yet. :)
<bddebian> TheMuso: That's OK, I'm not either ;-)
<bmonty> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImportantUpdateProcedures
<bmonty> TheMuso: based on that link you need to change the package version in the changelog as well
<nooby_god> I'm trying to package Audacious, after I have packaged it, I upload it to REVU?
<bmonty> nooby_god: yes
<bddebian> nooby_god: yes
<nooby_god> will the people at REVU be able to fix all of my silly mistakes?
<nooby_god> like wrong deps, better desc, etc
<bmonty> nooby_god: if you are packaging it you would fix the problems yourself
<TheMuso> bmonty: Why exactly?
<nooby_god> but this would be my first package
<bmonty> TheMuso: check the webpage, it has guidelines for package versions going into updates
<bmonty> TheMuso: the version should be 0.3.0-1ubuntu3.1
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<TheMuso> Ok guys. SOrry to be a pain, but if someone could check a final time, that would be great. If ok, I will ping mdz for approval.
<bmonty> TheMuso: looks good to me...you've verified the package builds in a dapper chroot?
<TheMuso> Just double-checking, but when I applied these patches to my own version for testing earlier today there didn't seem to be a problem.
<TheMuso> bmonty: Yep, builds fine.
<TheMuso> As I thought it would.
<bmonty> TheMuso: never hurts to test it...I'd say it looks good to go
<TheMuso> Ok thanks
<crimsun_> hmm
<crimsun_> I don't know about the versioning change
<crimsun_> none of the other -updates have bumped minors
<crimsun_> cf. pcmcia-cs
<TheMuso> Yeah I just noticed that with the packages in my apt cache.
<bmonty> crimsun_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImportantUpdateProcedures
<crimsun_> bmonty: I know, I've read that numerous times.
<crimsun_> bmonty: however, current practice by core-dev is to do a normal full increment
<bmonty> crimsun_: ok
<crimsun_> it's quite confusing
<TheMuso> Damn right it is/.
<crimsun_> personally a full increment makes sense, since I generally think of minor bumps => -security
<bmonty> looks like debian-installer used a .1 version for the latest dapper-updates package, but I see what you are saying about the others
<crimsun_> but again, clarify that with mdz when you ask him to review
<TheMuso> Ok.
* TheMuso goes back to writing a message to mdz
<TheMuso> Ok guys. Approval granted.
<crimsun_> yep, fire away
* TheMuso doesn't have MOTU status yet...
<TheMuso> So kinda can't.
<bmonty> crimsun_: do you want to upload or should I?
<crimsun_> bmonty: if you feel inclined, go for it, else I can do it in 10 mins
<bmonty> I can do it, what version number did we decide on?
<crimsun_> the current debdiff's
<bmonty> 0.3.0-1ubuntu3.1 then?
<crimsun_> yep.
<crimsun_> precedence either way, so it can't be "wrong" :)
<bmonty> thats good, except it is always nice to stay standardized
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<bmonty> hi LaserJock
<TheMuso> Hey LaserJock.
<LaserJock> hi bmonty and TheMuso
<bmonty> TheMuso: uploaded, thanks for taking care of that
<TheMuso> bmonty: Thanks for your assistance.
<LaserJock> anybody know how to search for channels in irssi?
<sladen> LaserJock:  /list
<nooby_god> when specifying version in the control file, what is the correct way to indicate version? (>=1.2.9) or (>=1.2.9-0ubuntu2) ?
<crimsun_> nooby_god: presuming versioned {build-,}dependencies? Least strict as possible.
<nooby_god> yeah, the site lists a bunch of deps, not all of them are build deps, some of them are recomended
<crimsun_> Recommended runtime packages should be listed as Recommends:
<nooby_god> if something depends on alsa-lib, what package is that in ubuntu? Or is that included in the base system?
<bmonty> nooby_god: you can use apt-cache to search for packages
<nooby_god> bmonty: I did, alsa-lib did not pop up anyhere
<bmonty> nooby_god: I can't remember the name, but it will probably not be alsa-lib, that isn't the standard for lib package names
<bddebian>  apt-cache dump |grep alsa |grep lib
<bmonty> libasound2-dev
<bddebian> Oh, heh, that wouldn't have worked then :-)
<crimsun_> nooby_god: libasound2 is part of desktop by default.
<nooby_god> ok
<crimsun_> (however, desktop != base ...)
<nooby_god> crimsun_: tomorrow, if by some luck, I manage to package audacious, what is the procedure to make sure that I have not made any stupid mistakes, concidering it's my first package
<crimsun_> nooby_god: when you debuild -S, it'll run lintian
<crimsun_> nooby_god: also, when you upload to REVU, it'll run lintian and linda
<crimsun_> (and I've already packaged both audacious and bmpx, so I'm happy to assist if you run into problems)
<nooby_god> ok
<nooby_god> thank you
<nooby_god> G'night all
<crimsun_> 'night
<bddebian> Gnight nooby_god
<bddebian> HEY, you always tell me you are busy when I ask for your help :-)
<crimsun_> sorry, still awaiting my pony.
<bmonty> lol
<bddebian> Man, I'm screwed :-(
<LaserJock> ponies!!!
<ajmitch> bddebian: why is that?
<ajmitch> aw, noone on teamspeak today :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Because I don't have a pony for crimsun_
<bddebian> And apparently I am too much of a PITA even for this group :-)
<crimsun_> didn't you say it was misdirected to arpo? :p
<bddebian> Alpo or Elmers, I couldn't remember which :-)
<crimsun_> ah, alpo
<crimsun_> well sheesh, no pony for me :/
<ajmitch> bddebian: you haven't sent me a pony either
<ajmitch> I'm sitting here, without a pony
<ajmitch> sad
<bddebian> I sent you a laptop and that wasn't good enough :-)
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> laptop != pony
* bmonty would rather have a laptop than a pony
<bddebian> Fine, fine
<ajmitch> bmonty: a 400MHz p2?
* bddebian resigns his post
<ajmitch> bddebian: going to just do main instead?
<bmonty> ajmitch: hmm....if I had nothing else, probably
<bddebian> They don't want me either
<bddebian> ajmitch: I had a 600Mhz one I said I would send you :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: they said they were happy to get patches from you
* imbrandon has ponies ..... http://www.buntudot.org/people/~imbrandon/screenshots/snapshot4.png
<ajmitch> that's so wrong
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> ponies on photoshop on wine on a win xp knock-off?
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> hahahah never herd it put like that but yea ;)
<bmonty> goodnight everyone
<bddebian> Gnight bmonty
<imbrandon> gnight
<Hobbsee> morning all
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :) hey bddebian :)
<Hobbsee> someone is here!
<bddebian> Nah, just me :-)
<Hobbsee> well, you're still someone!
<bddebian> I suppose that depends on who you ask ;-)
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> bddebian: well, i say that you exists, like everyone else exists.  how's that?
<bddebian> Good enough :-)
<Hobbsee> heya ajmitch_
<Hobbsee> s/ ajmitch_ / ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> brb
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, so did dad nick te headphones back lastnight ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: nope, they're still here
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> he got a bit shirty over it though - said he wanted to use the headphones a couple of weeks ago... - dont know why he didnt grab them from his study then...
<Hobbsee> wow, upgrades
<imbrandon> yea lots of them
<imbrandon> new crossover RC1 last night too
<imbrandon> w00t
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<ajmitch> night
<ajmitch> bah
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> just a little late
<LaserJock> always too late
* Hobbsee wishes she had a spare heater hidden somewhere.
<ajmitch> :(
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: go & run around for a bit
<ajmitch> you won't need a heater then
<Hobbsee> but running around involves going outside - and that will be even colder.
<LaserJock> oh, yeah, I forgot it's winterish down there
<LaserJock> I was getting confused
<ajmitch> not really winter
<ajmitch> she does live in sydney
<Hobbsee> haha
* Hobbsee throws a few icecubes at ajmitch_ 
<LaserJock> does it snow much in Syndey?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: a few hours south, yeah
<Hobbsee> not up here though
<ajmitch> LaserJock: they don't know what snow really is there
<ajmitch> they call winter anything under 20C :)
<LaserJock> 20C??
<ajmitch> hard to believe, isn't it?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> considering room temp is 25C
<Hobbsee> current room temp here was 14, before dad gave up :P
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<ajmitch> hi TheMuso
<LaserJock> yeah, in the winter we try to keep our house at 14
<Hobbsee> heh
<ajmitch> currently it's a nice 8C outside
<ajmitch> though probably dropping quickly
<TheMuso> Tis a nice afternoon here in Sydney.
<ajmitch> yes, Hobbsee is complaining about how cold & wintry it is :)
<LaserJock> it's 16 here at 9:45pm
* Hobbsee goes and sits in a corner while they make fun of her.
<ajmitch> aw
<TheMuso> I am not a fan of winter, but I certainly don't think it is freezing.
* ajmitch should leave now before he gets in too much more trouble
<LaserJock> trouble?
<ajmitch> yes
<LaserJock> bah
<TheMuso> LaserJock: You tested TeamSpeak yet?
<ajmitch> see you later
<Hobbsee> bye ajmitch
* Hobbsee wonders what kind of trouble
<LaserJock> TheMuso: no, I took a while to get my mic working
* TheMuso just bought a headset an hour or so ago.
<Hobbsee> nice :)
<TheMuso> So I don't have to use a microphone rigged up on a stand.
<LaserJock> yeah, I got a cheap one
<TheMuso> All the cheap ones here are crappy and uncomfortable.
<Hobbsee> i like the one dad brougth home form the us :)
<Hobbsee> no idea what it is though
<TheMuso> This headset mic doesn't have any popping Ps which is fantastic.
<LaserJock> heh, I hope mine's so bad everybody tells me to stop using it ;-)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Come on Teamspeak.
<TheMuso> And test it.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, are you trying to talk in TS ? your light is lighting up but no sound from you
<TheMuso> I know. Using a different sound card now. Just bare with me.
<imbrandon> ahh np , just was letting ya know
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: welcome
<LaserJock> hmm, what key do you guys bind for talking
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: spacebar :P
<LaserJock> no way
<Hobbsee> haha
<LaserJock> I'm doing Right Alt right now
<imbrandon> lol winkey is good in my case
<imbrandon> i dont use it for anything else
<LaserJock> I don't have a good win key on my laptop
<imbrandon> yea neither did Hobbsee
<LaserJock> oh, I just fond it
<LaserJock> found
<LaserJock> way up on the top right
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> yeah, tha't snormal - that's where all the unused keysa er at
<hub> looks like I'll have to make libgphoto2-2.2.0 packages
<hub> but they are in main :-/
<LaserJock> I played piano for a few years, I hate cold fingers
<sean> hello people
<hub> LaserJock: me too, but only for hacking
<LaserJock> imbrandon, Hobbsee: can you hear me OK in there? I have no idea what I'm doing
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: no
<LaserJock> yeah, it works, I spent several hours doing it last night
<Hobbsee> oh, that was you, right
<LaserJock> Gnome here
<LaserJock> imbrandon: whatever
<LaserJock> no kidding
<imbrandon> ping crimsun_
<imbrandon> you alive / awake ?
<LaserJock> bah, Sound Recoder isn't picking it up
<LaserJock> ok, I'm going to have to figure it out tomorrow or something
<LaserJock> I gotta get to bed
<Hobbsee> okay, cya
<LaserJock> at least I can connect ;-)
<Hobbsee> yeah :)  and you can hear us
<LaserJock> and can hear Hobbsee's au accent ;-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: haha
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you just missed TheMuso's as well
<LaserJock> yeah :(
<LaserJock> ok, I'm off, goodnight people
<crimsun_> imbrandon: pong
<imbrandon> heya crimsun_ Laser_away was asking about someinthg on his sound you helped him with yesterday
<imbrandon> was pinging for him
<ajmitch> hm
<Hobbsee> hm?
<ajmitch> got a very cheap, very crappy headset
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, you seen this yet ? http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/15/2229221&from=rss
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: nice, you're testing it out?
<ajmitch> not yet
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, ajmitch sent me that yesterdya :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> bleh.  the comments on that suck.
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> we know there are no female developers
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> yes.  and i do not exist, and TS lies.
<ajmitch> exactly
<imbrandon> isnt there an alsa wrapper to make oss only apps use alsa but think they are using oss ?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, you are realy a man in antartica , witha voice converter going through a proxie in AU
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: shh!  dont give away my secret!
<ajmitch> no wonder Hobbsee complains of being cold
<imbrandon> hahaha
<Hobbsee> :P
<ajmitch> well it's quite an accent there
* Hobbsee keeps having to remind herself that she has an accent.
<imbrandon> good voice converter , the kinda the gov uses ;)
<ajmitch> it can't be natural
<imbrandon> guess it depends on whom you talk to weather or not you have an accent
<imbrandon> ;)
* ajmitch can generally understand australian 'english' :)
* jsgotangco is prepared to fly
* imbrandon can too most of the time, only a very few words hang me up
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that is true.  you dont seem to have that much of an accent to my ears
<Hobbsee> besides, lower voices are easier to understand, usually
<imbrandon> heh
* imbrandon dident think his voice was that low
<jsgotangco> are you guys still pimping the teamspeak server now
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: it's still way lower than mine :P
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it's also common for kiwis & australians to make fun of each other's accent
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I'd expect that...
<imbrandon> kiwis ?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes captain obvious :P
<imbrandon> hahaha captin obivous , classic
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: unless you were a cher impersonator or something
<Hobbsee> ooh, scary...
<Hobbsee> cant imagine being cher.  or her impersonater.
* ajmitch doesn't want to imagine it
<imbrandon> now i'm gonna have nightmare about a rhino that sounds like cher
<Hobbsee> haha
* ajmitch wonders why noone is on teamspeak :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch i'll ba back on in a bit i was trying to make ts use alsa so i can play mp3's too
* Hobbsee was doing other stuff, so didnt stay on
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: then that just comes thru your mic though...
<imbrandon> not if i use headphones
* ajmitch is just using the laptop for teamspeak
<ajmitch> and the desktop for irc
* imbrandon hates to code without  music playing
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: yay! painted the plane orange and brown yet?
<TheMuso> Will be back on in a bit.
<jsgotangco> hmm it doesn't bode well with KLM's colours
* Hobbsee was concious of certain people recording, so didnt really want to say much.
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: you're heading to paris?
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: paint the entire plane to combat that
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: YES WITH A SPECIAL HANDWRITTEN SCHENGEN VISA
<imbrandon> heh i never got recording to work so i just turned it off, did you ajmitch ?
* Hobbsee doesnt like being recorded :P
<ajmitch> imbrandon: worked for me
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: nice!  so you ddi get one
<ajmitch> imbrandon: since I'll probably be sleeping during BOFs, I thought I'd try it out
<imbrandon> mine just made a 44 bit file that wont playback
<imbrandon> 44 bite
<imbrandon> byte
<imbrandon> grr
<jsgotangco> Hobbsee: yeah, they were being apologetic for the delays
<ajmitch> plus I've got sound bites of hobbsee to stick together in some random fashion
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: nooooo!
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: great to hear
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: hehe
* Hobbsee makes a mental note not to speak again.
<ajmitch> hah
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: hiya dude.  How do you feel about a status meeting in an hour?
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: give him lots of trouble :P
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: I should be around, I think
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: has he been naughty?
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: he's been recording me, and he's going to do nasty things with the data!
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: put it on teh intarweb?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: as if I would...
<Hobbsee> so yes, he has been very naughty!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you'd better not :P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee is just paranoid
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: well, yeah.  do i have reason to be though?
<ajmitch> no
<imbrandon> i serouisly doubt ajmitch has so little things to do that he can put it on teh intarweb ;)
<Hobbsee> okay
<imbrandon> sides , you would have to spend time editing it to get it to say anything jucy ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: she just doesn't trust me
<ajmitch> exectly
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: sure i do :)
<Hobbsee> good point.
<imbrandon> i dont even rember what we was talking about but i realy doubt anyone would care on teh intarweb ;)
<imbrandon> other than script kiddies that are like ...
<imbrandon> ZOMG !!11 a girlz, pix plz
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that's the sort of thing that's *exactly* likely to happen, if someone found it :P
<imbrandon> a coolz pix on a pony
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea probbly , sad but true
<TheMuso> Is it worth going back on?
<TheMuso> TO teamspeak that is?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: OMG ur a grl??!
<imbrandon> lol
<jsgotangco> lol
* Hobbsee rolls her eyes.  no, i'm a green bug eyed alien.  how many times do i have to tell you???
<imbrandon> from antartica
<imbrandon> and blue fingers
<Hobbsee> yes
<imbrandon> ok brb , time to grab some dew then back onto ts and ummmm something productive
<TheMuso> heh
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: ooh, jpeg, then!
<Mithrandir> ;-P
* Mithrandir hides from Hobbsee 
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: just look in irc logs for photos..
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: I'm too lazy.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: http://tinyurl.com/hus8e <-- there you go
<ajmitch> heh
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: ooh, shiny.
<Hobbsee> hehe!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: that'd be an awful lot of logs to look thru..
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: grep is your friend
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, but for what exactly?
<imbrandon> ls |grep Hobbsee http://
<ajmitch> aha, found it
<Hobbsee> heh.  dammit.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: which pictures did i give otu again?
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> to the main channel, that is
<Hobbsee> my car ones, probably...
<ajmitch> 1 with the car
<ajmitch> that's the only car one I've seen
<Hobbsee> oh okay
<zakame> hi all
<Hobbsee> hey zakame
<imbrandon> heya zakame
<ajmitch> hey zakame
<TheMuso> Hey zakame.
<zakame> heya guys! just moved to kubuntu, it rocks
<imbrandon> ;) yes it does
<Hobbsee> zakame: yay!  welcome to the dark side!
<ajmitch> zakame: my condolences
<imbrandon> haha
* TheMuso may be there in the future if KDE4's accessibility is deacent.
<TheMuso> But I might just stay put in GNOME anyway.
<imbrandon> there we go TS back online
<imbrandon> i THINK using alsa
* Hobbsee kicks the server
<zakame> heh
<zakame> e
* imbrandon holds the server back so it dosent kick Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> thought it was going to kick for flodding
<Hobbsee> *flooding
<makko> will google earth be added to an ubuntu repository?
<hub> makko: only if it is allowed, in multiverse
<hub> but in general we try to just avoid these
<makko> hub: oh, so it's still not clear whether it has a licence similar to the new java licence?
<hub> makko: in general, we prefer to avoid
<hub> how to support a software you can't fix?
<makko> hub: that's a good point indeed
<makko> hub: well, i hope they'll open source it soon
<Gloubiboulga> google earth can't be redistributed
<hub> makko: unlikely to happen
* jsgotangco gotta go
<jsgotangco> au revoir!
<Hobbsee> bye jsgotangco!
<ajmitch> bye jsgotangco
<makko> Gloubiboulga: then maybe we should treat is as we treat skype or opera
<TheMuso> jsgotangco: See ya.
<TheMuso> Look forward to meeting you in Paris.
<jsgotangco> cheers mate
<TheMuso> hehehe
<hub> makko: I just think it does not belong here
<hub> like Flash
<hub> does not
<Gloubiboulga> makko, I'm not sure that it's possible
<zakame> hmm can anyone update a malone bug's importance? I can't seem to update nbd's
<crimsun_> zakame: access control for changing Importance has been adjusted
<imbrandon> sudo reboot
<imbrandon> err
<zakame> crimsun_: hmm?
<crimsun_> zakame: I think you have to be part of 'Ubuntu QA' now?
<crimsun_> (though you should have priv by being MOTU)
<robitaille> so who is a member of that Ubuntu QA team?
<crimsun_> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-qa
<zakame> hmm yes,
<crimsun_> zakame: which bug are you referring to?
<zakame> maonle 49839
<zakame> malone 49839
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 49839 in nbd "please sync 2.8.3-2 from Debian" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49839
<zakame> Yoe's last post (read on planet debian) should say why
<crimsun_> I presume you're attempting to change the Importance for (Ubuntu)?
<sivang> crimsun_: there is an Ubuntu QA team?
<ajmitch> sivang: there is now
<Hobbsee> morning siretart
<Hobbsee> ooops
<sivang> ajmitch: ah, nice, since when ?
<Hobbsee> morning sivang
* sivang hugs Hobbsee 
<zakame> crimsun_: yes
<ajmitch> sivang: since about 2 days ago
* Hobbsee hugs sivang in return
<siretart> Hobbsee: I'm awake as well. good morning :)
<ajmitch> morning sivang, siretart ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe hi siretart - wrong nick completion :P
<zakame> hi sivang
<crimsun_> zakame: you probably want to address that in #launchpad. In the meantime, what do you need it set to?
<sivang> morning siretart
<sivang> morning ajmitch :-)
<Hobbsee> siretart: sorry for the accidental ping
<siretart> huhu ajmitch, hi sivang
<zakame> crimsun_: to High... I would also add a comment that I think a packport is necessary
<zakame> hi too siretart ! =)
<zakame> *backport
<crimsun_> zakame: because there are no Ubuntu modifications, it'll be synced automatically in Edgy. I presume you meant s/packport/dapper-updates/ ?
<zakame> crimsun_: that would be great then :)
<zakame> brb
* imbrandon_ pokes Hobbsee
<imbrandon_> i got TS to work with KDE sound ( alsa ) , very simple after i figured it out
<ajmitch> imbrandon_: careful, she may bite
<sivang> so , is the QA team comes to replace the bugsquad etc? or does it have more string implications for us?
<imbrandon_> lol
* Hobbsee pokes imbrandon_ 
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: oh?  how?
<TheMuso> imbrandon_: How did you do it?
* Hobbsee bites ajmitch 
<ajmitch> imbrandon_: see? unprovoked attacks
<imbrandon_> sudo apt-get install alsa-oss then ......
<imbrandon_> lol
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon_> modprobe -v snd-pcm-oss
<imbrandon_> and start teamspeak
<imbrandon_> all is groovy
<imbrandon_> ;)
<sivang> are you all on the voip server?
<crimsun_> sivang: afaik the bugsquad will eventually feed into the QA team (ala ubuntu members -> ubuntu motu)
<TheMuso> imbrandon_: Do you have to run it with the aoss command?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: you have to do that every time you want to run teamspeak?
<imbrandon_> nope TheMuso
<TheMuso> hmmm ok.
<makko> while getting more and more updates, will dapper have new releases like the fedora "respins"?
<imbrandon_> Hobbsee, not if you add snd-pcm-oss to /etc/modules
<sivang> crimsun_: so everybody now helpning with bugs is part of the QA team?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: gotcha
<ajmitch> makko: quite possibly
* sivang feels hi missed a CC meeting or two.
<crimsun_> sivang: my understanding (perhaps wrong, ask sfflaw for details) is that bugsquad is a "proving ground" of sorts for the QA team
<sivang> crimsun_: ah, I see, thanks, I'll make sure to ask him
<makko> ajmitch: isn't there any official answer for this?
<imbrandon_> TheMuso, no the kernel module that gets loaded remaps /dev/dsp ( the oss stuff ) to alsa so it tricks anything thats useing it
<makko> ajmitch: i mean, aren't they talking about it?
<ajmitch> makko: it'll be talked about in paris
<Hobbsee> makko: from what they said a few days ago, i think so
<makko> Hobbsee: wow, that's cool, because my current dapper has some bugs i can't live with :)
<crimsun_> imbrandon_: um, snd_pcm_oss should be getting loaded anyway from the udev hook
<makko> ajmitch: when is paris going to happen? this month?
<ajmitch> makko: next week
<makko> ajmitch: nice
<imbrandon_> crimsun_, apperently not
<ajmitch> crimsun_: yep, it is here
<crimsun_> if it isn't, that's a bug, please file against alsa-driver
<makko> ajmitch: thanks
<imbrandon_> not in my case atleaste
<imbrandon_> crimsun_, ok
<crimsun_> imbrandon_: which driver?
<imbrandon_> dunno how do i find out
<crimsun_> cat /proc/asound/modules
<imbrandon_> 0 snd_intel8x0
<imbrandon_> onboard
<crimsun_> imbrandon_: it's definitely supposed to be loaded by default. I use that driver.
<imbrandon_> k
<imbrandon_> yea i had / have to load it manualy or add it to /etc/modules to get it to load
<crimsun_> do you have snd_pcm_oss blacklisted in /etc/modprobe.d/* ?
<imbrandon_> not that i know of unless its default
<imbrandon_> i havent blacklisted any modules
<crimsun_> it's not blacklisted by default, I'm certain of that.
<imbrandon_> *looks*
<imbrandon_> k i havent done it myself either
<imbrandon_> but i'll look to make sure
* ajmitch can vaguely hear imbrandon_ talking
<imbrandon_> crimsun_, yea just looked to make sure its not blacklisted anywhere
<imbrandon_> crimsun_, i'm a newb when it comes to alsa so what info do i need to include in that bug report to make it usefull ?
<crimsun_> imbrandon_: at this point you need to reproduce the issue (snd_pcm_oss not being loaded by default) on both Ubuntu and Kubuntu Dapper live cds
<imbrandon_> k
<imbrandon_> i can do that
<imbrandon_> crimsun_, that should be loaded even without alsa-oss installed ?
<TheMuso> imbrandon_: Yes.
<crimsun_> there's no magic udev -- or alsa-base blacklist -- stuff to prevent snd_pcm_oss from being loaded, so I suspect it's a localised issue
<crimsun_> alsa-oss is completely orthogonal to the issue
<imbrandon_> ok
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: we need to postpone the meeting a bit, I'm in the middle of debugging debian-cd.
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> sparc issues? :)
<Mithrandir> yes.
<Mithrandir> they don't have anything to do with sparc per se, just something went belly-up while building images.
<ajmitch> yeah, I saw the problem mentioned in #u-ports
<\sh> moins
<Hobbsee> hey \sh
<imbrandon_> heya \sh
<crimsun_> zakame: bug 49839 updated. I'm away for the better part of 9 hours (sleep, run, meeting prep, class), so please get approval from mdz for the upload to dapper-updates.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 49839 in nbd "Backport fix from Debian 1:2.8.3-2 for accept() error" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49839
<\sh> oh...is it true that the buildds are not in manual mode anymore?
<\sh> [10:30]  <siretart> buildds again on manual?
<\sh> [10:30]  <fabbione> yes
<\sh> [10:30]  <fabbione> and they will stay that way for a little while
<\sh> just a dream ;)
<siretart> \sh: they were on auto yesterday evening
<siretart> \sh: and the autosyncs have started already
<\sh> siretart: no mails on auto-changes :(
<siretart> \sh: thats right. btw, is there an rss feed for auto-changes?
<\sh> siretart: I don't know, but if there are no messages on auto-changes ml, I doubt, that there is a working RSS feed
<\sh> humm...to download nexenta OS I have to provide my name .. WTF?
<rob> just make something up
<rob> Idont Wanna usually works for me
<Hobbsee> haha, i like that idea
<siretart> is there an rss feed for wiki.ubuntu.com?
<kelmo> gday
<Toadstool> hi motus
<ivoks> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey ivoks
<andi5> hi. i am quite sure this is completely ot for this channel, where can i ask the following: 2.6.17 (found in pool) is configured not to have prism2 support, in stark contrast to what dapper provides... thanks in advance
<\sh> andi5: #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-kernel is the right place :)
* andi5 joins there and bows down
<andi5> or knees down
<tseng> because hostap covers most prism devices
<tseng> aside from usb, which is included i believe
<andi5> nope
<andi5> <-- usb
<tseng> and no, #ubuntu-devel is not the right place
<\sh> tseng: it's kernel
<andi5> tseng: i can go to -kernel, but maybe you know just as good... 2.6.16-23 had CONFIG_PRISM2_USB=m which depends on CONFIG_PRISM2 (=n in 2.6.17)
<tseng> ask kernel
* andi5 asks
<tseng> no one should be using edgy at this point imo
<andi5> i do not use edgy.... i just saw the new kernel and wanted to try it out.... the dapper one (and the predecessors) tend to let kswapd0 go crazy (use 100% cpu, unkillable, heat cpu and force me to restart computer)
<ryanakca> bibus has a premade deb, do I make a new one? or ???
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: dude!
<Hobbsee> um.  am i crazy, or did we get a kernel update, from 2.6.15-23 to 2.6.15-25?
<Hobbsee> and why'd it skip a version?
<Mithrandir> to make people ask questions. :-)
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: haha, right.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Gloubiboulga
<zakame> hi bddebian Gloubiboulga
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<Gloubiboulga> hey zakame
<zakame> hmm what's the desktop shortcut for switching desktops under kde?
<Hobbsee> zakame: there isnt one
<\sh> ctrl+f1/f2/f3 etc.
<kelmo> ctrl fX
<zakame> \sh, kelmo: hmm that doesn't work, cntrl+f2 in particulr gives me the Run dialog
<zakame> checked the Lifesaver, seems there's only the mousewheel shortcut
<kelmo> thats what alt f2 gives me ;-)
<\sh> zakame: did you change your xkb settings to change ctrl and alt ?
<Hobbsee> zakame: i dont think there are any set.  i assigned mine to be ctrl+tab
<zakame> \sh: nope, just using default settings
<zakame> I don't really change keboard shorts unless there's strong reason
<\sh> zakame: then it's by default ctrl+F[1-0] 
<zakame> \sh: oh, there you go, the run dialog earlier was Alt+f2 pala
<zakame> man I'm loving yakuake
<kelmo> its a handy tooll indeed
<zakame> whoa I almost read that as `troll' :)
<tseng> it's good to have a troll handy
<zakame> hehe
<kagou> hi
<zakame> ji kagou
<zakame> *hi
<phanatic> afternoon people
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<Gloubiboulga> afternoon phanatic
<phanatic> hi Gloubiboulga
<zakame> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hi zakame, are you going on well with your soc project? :)
<zakame> pretty much fine, learning a lot as usual
<zakame> I hope to do my first major CVS commit later next week
<nooby_god> crimsun_: are you here?
<jdong|coreduo> is there a timeline for when universe will start syncing with Debian for Edgy?
<phanatic> zakame: that's great!
<zakame> jdong|coreduo: should be pretty soon
<jdong|coreduo> cool
<nooby_god> debuild -S, does not work for me, it says that I do not have a secret key
<_ion> Generate one.
<nooby_god> but I do have my secret key on the system
<phanatic> hi raphink
<raphink> hi phanatic
<nooby_god> gpg --list-secret-keys shows my secret key
<_ion> Set the key id in ~/.devscripts
* raphink hates 1:30 meetings
<nooby_god> I don't have a ~/.devscripts
<raphink> nooby_god: use the -k switch
<nooby_god> what does that do raphink>
<raphink> nooby_god: debuild -S -sa -kyourkeyid
<raphink> that forces using this key ID
<_ion> raphink: Easier use ~/.devscripts
<raphink> even if the name, email and comments do not match
<raphink> _ion: maybe :)
<nooby_god> debuild -S -sa -k50B90D41 --> like that?
<raphink> yes nooby_god
* _ion wonders where his grammar went.
<_ion> +"It's" +"to"
<zul> grumble grumble
<nooby_god> bah, I have another error now
<raphink> what is that?
<nooby_god> pastbinning right now
<nooby_god> http://pastebin.com/713031
<nooby_god> it comapains about PKG_CONFIG
<raphink> do you build depend on pkg-config?
<nooby_god> yup
<nooby_god> oh wait, now it works
<nooby_god> I accidently had pkg-config in Recomends
<raphink> ok
<nooby_god> nvm, it faield again
<raphink> hehe
<nooby_god> The pkg-config script could not be found. Make sure it is
<nooby_god> *** in your path, or set the PKG_CONFIG environment variable
<raphink> well welcome to the packaging world nooby_god ;)
<nooby_god> ahh
<raphink> ah
<nooby_god> I should have not picked audacious
<nooby_god> raphink: what's the cure for this PKG_CONFIG thing?
<raphink> well it tells you to read some doc
<raphink> so I'd say look at it
<raphink> or try to set this env var
<raphink> although it's a bit weird, cause pkg-config installs in /usr/bin
<nooby_god> I'm running sudo pbuilder build ../*.dsc
<raphink> seems good
<raphink> is your pbuilder up-to-date?
<nooby_god> how do I check the version?
<raphink> is it a dapper pbuilder ?
<jsgotangco> hello
<nooby_god> the other day I upgrated to an edgy one
<raphink> edgy is not usable yet
<raphink> the toolchain is being rebuilt
<nooby_god> that would explain a lot
<nooby_god> how do I downgrade?
<raphink> nooby_god: you rebuild it
<raphink> change the config and rebuild a dapper one
<raphink> or just wait for edgy to be ready
<nooby_god> raphink: I don't have a config file
<raphink> in a week or so maybe
<raphink> sure you do nooby_god
<raphink>  /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc usually
<raphink> and the apt.config/ dir in /var/pbuilder if you used this method
<nooby_god> can't I just run "sudo pbuilder create --distribution dapper --othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper universe multiverse" ?
<raphink> that's not the best way
<raphink> imo
<nooby_god> well, to late
<raphink> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<phanatic> if i would like something to get into dapper-updates, whom shall i assign the appropriate bug (with debdiff)? motu-reviewers okay, or is there another group for this purpose?
<raphink> is the package in universe?
<phanatic> of course :)
<raphink> then  I'd say motu-reviewers is fine
<raphink> although it might be faster to just send it to someone who can handle it
<raphink> mdz needs to aprove it, though
<phanatic> i've assigned them to motu-reviewers just before the release of dapper
<raphink> ping mdz about it
<phanatic> okay, thanks
<phanatic> is there anything apecial about -updates versioning?
<phanatic> i mean what comes after -0ubuntu2? -0ubuntu3 is fine?
<raphink> yes
<raphink> it's just the same
<phanatic> thanks :)
<zakame> hmm does konqueror have extensions support like mozex on firefox
<zakame> (I kno,w OT, but asking anyhow, be sleeping soon)
<Hobbsee> zakame: it has plugin support, certainly, but i dont know about extensions
<Hobbsee> hey Yagisan
<Yagisan> G'day Hobbsee
<Yagisan> so, whats up ? (apart from dapper's plone eating my website)
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: uni exam tomorrow, and we were randomly kicking people and other ops in #ubuntu-offtopic - was fun!
<zakame> heya Yagisan
<Hobbsee> which is really studying, i know...
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: I got an offer from QTAC saying I can study at CQU. Now to hope the get my enrollment papers to me in time.
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: CQU?
<Yagisan> evening zakame
<Hobbsee> central qld uni?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: yep
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: nice!
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: thank you. I'll head down to their international students branch at town hall and make myself at home this week
<Hobbsee> :)
<nooby_god> I'm still getting a PKG_CONFIG error and I'm using the pbuilder dapper
<zakame> erm, do you have pkg-config?
<nooby_god> yes i do
<nooby_god> I get the error when I run  sudo pbuilder build ../*.dsc
* Yagisan pokes ajmitch
<bddebian> nooby_god: Even if you use the actual .dsc filename vs *.dsc?
<nooby_god> bddebian: don't know about that
<Yagisan> edgy open yet ? (I'm trying to decide how far up shit creek I should travel, before re-deploying breezy if needed)
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: it's open, yes
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: right. can't get any worse then corrupted database and a site error. I'll upgrade the box again.
<nooby_god> bddebian: it still doesn't work even using the actuall file name
<Hobbsee> heh
<nooby_god> crimsun_: are you here?
<Yagisan> so, Hobbsee, why are you getting a degree ?
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: er, why?
<Hobbsee> because it means i learn stuff, and will probably make me employable for my skills, and not just what i look like
<Hobbsee> crud, that didnt quite sound right, did it?
<zul> hehe..you are the troll under the bridge hobbsee? ;)
<Hobbsee> zul: no, not when i last checked..
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: heh. I've been arguing with my with over the value of a degree in Aus. I have a low opinion of it's value here (esp as most of my Industry is being outsourced to India)
<Yagisan> s/with/wife
<Yagisan> I see little benefit here, outside of the enjoyment of learning new things
<Spec> Which is all that matters in education :)
* Hobbsee shrugs
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: it gets me out of the house too, which is good
<Laser_away> I value my degree since I have to have a PhD to do what I want to do :-)
* Hobbsee will probably have to do that.  i dont know.  maybe i'll get a double degree, and do more comp-sci stuff as well.
<Hobbsee> we'll see
<jsgotangco> Laser_away: when are you arriving in Paris?
<Laser_away> jsgotangco: It'll be ~ 11am Paris time
<jsgotangco> the 18th?
<Laser_away> um, yeah, I think
<Laser_away> Sunday
<jsgotangco> cool ok
<Laser_away> how about you?
<Yagisan> I've had the experience that all my qualifications have been just a piece of paper that only I care about.
<Yagisan> Laser_away: what was your job again ?
<Laser_away> Yagisan: Physical Chemistry
<jsgotangco> Laser_away: i arrive on the 17th a few hours short of midnight
<Laser_away> jsgotangco: wow, early
<jsgotangco> well its almost saturday here already
<lifeless> awesome
<lifeless> man I was fat then
<Laser_away> lifeless: ?
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> hoverbook
<Yagisan> Laser_away: sounds like fun. I liked physics in the sciences, specifically nuclear physics. I just don't see that as particularly employable here.
<lifeless> Laser_away: ECHANNEL
<Laser_away> lifeless: oh, sorry
<Yagisan> how do I assign a bug to someone in malone ?
<Laser_away> Yagisan: it's fun for the most part, computers are more "exciting" but I do like teaching/research
<Laser_away> Yagisan: usually you don't
<Laser_away> Yagisan: you might subscribe, but probably the person should assigne themselves
<zakame> heh
<Yagisan> Laser_away: ok. I'll wait for the zope team to assign themselves. Now to salvage my database
<Yagisan> Good luck with your exams Hobbsee
<zakame> gn8 all
<zakame> ggood luck Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> thanks Yagisan and zakame
<Hobbsee> suppose i should sleep...
<hub> just uploaded an update of a universe package
<hub> but it depends on a newer version of a main package
<hub> uploaded too
<hub> (to REVU off course)
<Spec> i have a few questions about packaging this program..., it requires mysql and the "install.sh" file asks for input (if not environment variable), does mysql stuff, and does Make, and calls some python occasionally
<Spec> what's the best way to start to package this? rip apart install.sh?
<phanatic> Spec: i have some comments about your new cxacrufw package :)
<phanatic> s/about/on
<Spec> yes? :)
<Spec> I've fixed them already :p
<Spec> phanatic = raphink?
<raphink> haha no
<phanatic> no :)
<raphink> whatt makes you think so?
<phanatic> i just don't have rights to post comments to revu, so i asked raphink to do that for me :)
<Spec> reviewer: raphink@raphink.net --> comments by Szilveszter
<Spec> ah, okay :p
<raphink> ah ok
<Spec> well, fixed anyways :)
<phanatic> Spec: just a versioning issue. the source's version should be 1.2-0ubuntu1
<Spec> yeap, i knew the version was wrong
<phanatic> Spec: and please don't bump the revision when you upload a new source pkg to revu
<raphink> anyway
<Spec> oki, sorry, didn't know :p
<raphink> I'm going
<raphink> laters
<Spec> see ya
<Spec> phanatic: do you know where the wiki is for versions?
<phanatic> bye raphink
<phanatic> Spec: uh, no idea, sorry...
<LaserJock> anybody know what Joel Bryan Juliano's IRC nick is?
<ogra> LaserJock, joelbryan i think
<LaserJock> hmm
<Spec> joelbryan
<Spec> says LP
<LaserJock> ah, shoulda thought of that
<snips> crimsun_ are you here?
<ryanakca> bibus has a premade deb, do I make a new one? or ???
<LaserJock> ryanakca: a .deb is useless to us, we need source packages
<ryanakca> so... a .dsc?
<LaserJock> .dsc, diff.tgz, and .orig.tar.gz
<ryanakca> hmmm... and if an app doesn't have a .tar.gz package... well they do, just that it's out of date and they suggest not to use it... but anywais, if they only have svn... ex: svn co http://code.djangoproject.com/svn/django/trunk/           what do I do? make a gziped tarball?
<LaserJock> yep
<ryanakca> kk, ty
<_ion> AFAIR it's created automatically by debuild (therefore dpkg-buildpackage) automatically, if you (cd django && svn export ../django-12.34) && cp -a django-12.34 django-12.34.orig && (cd django-12.34 && debuild -S)
<LaserJock> yeah, with the .orig it might work, usually it just creates a native package
<highvoltage> i can ask newbie packaging questions here, right?
<Gloubiboulga> highvoltage, sure
<LaserJock> highvoltage: of course ;-)
<highvoltage> kewl :)
<crimsun_> no way, doc team members are supposed to know it all already!
<highvoltage> lintian complains that i don't run update-menus isn't run in postinst or postrm, but there doesn't seem to be such an executable?
<LaserJock> crimsun_: hehe, trust me, they don't ;-)
<crimsun_> update-menus is in menu-xdg. Is menu-xdg installed?
<crimsun_> err
<crimsun_> menu, rather
<highvoltage> no, it wasn't installed. is that normal?
<highvoltage> should i add menu as a dependency then?
<sladen> highvoltage: if it's a requirement, yes
<highvoltage> sladen: thanks
<sladen> highvoltage: otherwise, test for the presence, eg.  test -x /usr/bin/update-menus && /usr/bin/update-menus
<highvoltage> oooh, cool tip
<ryanakca> for  a program that is packaged for the first time, the version would be... 0ubuntu1 ? it isn't in debian...
<Gloubiboulga> ryanakca, yes
<Gloubiboulga> <upstream_version>-0ubuntu1
<ryanakca> kk, ty
<bockman> crimsun_, hey, i was just wondering how that openvpn bug #45827 was going
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45827 in openvpn "openvpn old security problems (Breezy)" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45827
<crimsun_> bockman: thanks for checking; I think Martin hasn't looked yet, will ping now
<crimsun_> hmm, or not, since he's not online
<crimsun_> bockman: I shouldn't upload w/o at least his once-over
<bockman> alright, you'll change the status on the bug report when it's uploaded?
<crimsun_> bockman: in any case, they're ready, they just have to be approved.
<crimsun_> bockman: absolutely. For the record, which one{,s} are they? (I believe I'm subbed)
<bockman> you mean the bug number?
<crimsun_> bockman: yes
<bockman> #45827
<crimsun_> right, I am. Will do.
<bockman> thanks.
<crimsun_> thanks for continuing to follow up :)
<bockman> no problem, i was fearing that i would annoy you, repeatedly asking about this
<crimsun_> no, it's good to remind me. :) I just have a lot on my plate atm.
<highvoltage> how do i get my gpg key into revu?
<jpatrick> send it to the admins
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
<LaserJock> hi TheMuso
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-17
<imbrandon> morning -motu's
<Laser_away> morning?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: where do you live?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: irc time
<LaserJock> well I don't know what time it is anymore, and I haven't even left yet
<crimsun_> I think he's in .au
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> LaserJock, GMT -0600 ( Kansas City Mo USA ) but i'm a night owl ;)
<crimsun_> ah
<crimsun_> a midwesterner!
<imbrandon> yup yup ;)
<LaserJock> ok, I thought you sounded from those parts
<crimsun_> ouch, I feel for you :p
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> little more east, I was thinking
<crimsun_> (my excuse is that I've heard none of you on TS, so...)
<LaserJock> I went to KC once, the Kansas side
<imbrandon> ahh well i lived in boston for a bit so i might have picked up a tad accessnt
<LaserJock> I liked it out there, nice and green when I  went
<imbrandon> yea the KS side is only about 20 miles from me
<LaserJock> I'm used to brown desert
<imbrandon> i just moved back here from Reno
<imbrandon> i grew up here but go married and moved to reno nv
<LaserJock> wha?
<imbrandon> then divorced and moved back ;)
<LaserJock> really?
<imbrandon> yup
<LaserJock> I've been in Reno for 4 years now
<ajmitch> seems that everyone here is married or was married :)
<imbrandon> hahah nice
<imbrandon> i was in sparks actualy
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what's your excuse? ;-)
<imbrandon> my ex-wife still lives there with my 2 kids
<Kyral> I wish I was married shit
<ajmitch> LaserJock: finding the perfect girl ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I live in Sun Valley, but don't tell anyone
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> imbrandon: up at the top in the fenced off area
<LaserJock> a lot fewer dead bodies and drug busts there
<imbrandon> LaserJock, she is full blood piaute indian ( thus she grew up in the reno / pyrmid lake area )
<LaserJock> ah
<crimsun_> Kyral: what, you and Arch got a divorce or something?
<LaserJock> hehe
<Kyral> huh?
* Kyral smacks crimsun_
<imbrandon> lol
<Kyral> I meant to a girl shithead
<LaserJock> imbrandon: crazy, I didn't think there were any linux people around here
<imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/images/all.gif  <--- me and my ex-wife when i was still in reno
<imbrandon> LaserJock, there is a rlug ( i'm still on the mailing list actualy lol )
<LaserJock> what?
<Lathiat> 
<LaserJock> I was looking for one!
<imbrandon> rlug == reno linux users group
<LaserJock> the closes one I found was Sacramento
<LaserJock> gosh I'm stupid
<imbrandon> http://www.rlug.org/wiki/FrontPage
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> freaking heck!
<LaserJock> they had a meeting yesterday
<imbrandon> i still head out there a few times a year to see my kids , i'll have to look you up on my next trip ;)
<LaserJock> talking about Xen even!
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> most of them use buntu or debian too
<imbrandon> more kubuntu than ubuntu ( but i use kubuntu also sooo lol )
<LaserJock> wow, this is blowing me away
<imbrandon> LaserJock, did you also notice #rlug on freenode ;)
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> WHAT?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: are you going to Paris or were you just playing around with TS?
<imbrandon> just playing with TS ( so i can listen in on paris ) hopefully i'll make edgy release meeting
<ajmitch> LaserJock: TS is also for us who aren't real developers & can't get to paris :)
<imbrandon> exactly ^^
<LaserJock> whatever, I just got lucky
<imbrandon> going ?
<LaserJock> me, yeah
<LaserJock> heh, I just saw they had a presentation on how to set up a breezy chroot
<imbrandon> who did ?
<imbrandon> thats been on the wiki for ages
<LaserJock> Brian Morris on 11/10/2005
<LaserJock> maybe they'll let me do a post-Paris debriefing ;-)
<ajmitch> it'd be great for them to have a talk from a real, live ubuntu developer after paris
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> maybe they'll even pay for your beer! ;)
<imbrandon> yup /me is doing one for kclug
<LaserJock> ajmitch: Pepsi :-)
<imbrandon> mt dew ;)
<LaserJock> ohhh yeah
<LaserJock> I feel so idiotic, it takes me going to Paris to figure out that I've got a LUG right were I live
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> moins Hobbsee
<crimsun_> so four hours later... dpkg-deb: building package `linux-image-2.6.15-25-386' in `../linux-image-2.6.15-25-386_2.6.15-25.43.0crimsun1_i386.deb'.
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> FOUR HOURS !
<imbrandon> ouch
<ajmitch> crimsun_: not using ccache then?
<crimsun_> ajmitch: not much use for the first (and only) compile ;)
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<ajmitch> ah, poor fellow
<imbrandon> ccache and distcc are nice ( i need to figure out how to use distcc with debuild )
<Hobbsee> hey crimsun_ and ajmitch and LaserJock
<LaserJock> crimsun_: jeeze, what is that one?
<LaserJock> on
<ajmitch> uh oh, Hobbsee's here
<crimsun_> LaserJock: P3 600 MHz
* imbrandon stands infront of ajmitch to hide him
<ajmitch> someone get crimsun_ a faster computer ASAP
<LaserJock> yeah, I've got a 1.3 GHz P4
<LaserJock> for pbuilder
<imbrandon> my main build machine is ...
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hehe yep!  it's me again!
<imbrandon> Sysinfo for 'voyager': Linux 2.6.15-25-686 running KDE 3.5.3, CPU: Intel(R)Celeron(R)CPU2.93GHz at 2933 MHz (5874 bogomips), , RAM: 708/1002MB, 104 proc's, 1.49h up
<imbrandon> 2.9 i guess ;)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: it's 32C here today
<imbrandon> 30C here ;)
* Hobbsee sidesteps imbrandon and hugs ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> nice!  i'm jealous!
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> how about we swap places - you guys do my exam..
<imbrandon> lol you dont want me doing it
<imbrandon> mispellings and typos everwhere
<Hobbsee> it
<Hobbsee> 's only programming
<imbrandon> c/c++ ?
<Hobbsee> c++
<imbrandon> cool
<Hobbsee> should be simple enough, i just really dont want to bother going in and doing it :P
<imbrandon> lol is it today ?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hey, i did end up studying eventually you know.  then got bored, so started kicking people
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, it's in an hour and a half...
<imbrandon> ouch , well gl
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I'll do it for you, mwhuahahaha :-)
<Hobbsee> i was told it started in an hour - i'll have to bash up the guy who told me wrongly...
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: hehe!  make sure i get a D or a HD in it...
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I know absolutely 0 about c++
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> make it up :P
<LaserJock> but i might be able to fake some of it
<LaserJock> I know a tiny bit of C
<imbrandon> just inset php code and screw up the prof
<imbrandon> insert*
<LaserJock> if it was Fortran 77 I'd probably be ok
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: so why aren't you cramming now?
* Hobbsee doesnt know php
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: good question, i will be
<ajmitch> will be?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, php is ALOT like c++ only , scipted ;)
<LaserJock> even Fortran 90 might be tough for me if they get into the 90 stuff
<imbrandon> scripted*
<crimsun_> she's a GIRL, they don't need to study
<Hobbsee> haha
<LaserJock> that's right
<imbrandon> hahaha
<ajmitch> crimsun_: true
<imbrandon> thats soooooo true, sad but true
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: what, we can just flirt with the lecturers or something to get full marks?  i dont think it'll work that way
<imbrandon> nah
<LaserJock> did at my school ;-)
<imbrandon> every chick i've ever studied with never had to study and got streight a's something about the way yall think diffrent(tm)
<crimsun_> I'm gonna stay mum about that comment...
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: i have a masters in the art of making up rubbish...so that works for most subjects :P
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: very wise :P
<Hobbsee> they use the student numbers, nto the names, anyway
<imbrandon> hahahah Masters in rubbish
<LaserJock> that's cheating
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: in making it up :P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I didn't realise you'd done a BA
<imbrandon> yea i got it Hobbsee
<LaserJock> how is the teacher supposed to grade when the don't know who took the test? :-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, lol everyone passes
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hehe :P
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: most people in the course probably still cant code
<LaserJock> we had one TA in the department that just sort of randomized the stack and then started with A's at the top and worked his way down to the F's
* imbrandon is working on a PhD in IRC
<Hobbsee> they get by by checking out the advanced classes examples, and manipulating them
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: haha
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: hehe...that's not a bad idea, actually
<LaserJock> and I heard of another that threw the papers down the stairwell and the step they landed on determined the grade :-)
<imbrandon> omg lol
<imbrandon> must have been mcse studdies
<Hobbsee> so the more you wrote, the worse you did, yep
<LaserJock> Chemistry ;-)
<Hobbsee> haha yeah, probably
<LaserJock> but that was a bad TA
<LaserJock> I knew him
<LaserJock> he didn't make it through his PhD
<LaserJock> I spent hours and hours grading
<LaserJock> students have no idea how long a teacher can spend grading
<Hobbsee> oh, dad's reformatting the study computer again - XP has died again.  I offered him a linux cd, but he wasnt interested.
<imbrandon> sure they do, thus the frat parties till 3 am , figure if the teach is up that long so can they
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, hahaha
<LaserJock> lol
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: stand & laugh at him instead
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, set him up with my royale theme ;)
<Hobbsee> it's only the second time he's done it in a couple of months...
<ajmitch> nicely, of course
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: oh i did :P
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you want the honours?  :P
<ajmitch> of course not
<Hobbsee> sure?
<ajmitch> quite sure
<Hobbsee> how boring.  he wouldnt eat you, you know
<LaserJock> my wife seems to float between linux and Windows pretty well except for one stupid recipe website
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> I think that is the one thing getting in the way of me wiping off XP for good
<imbrandon> run xp in vmware for that one thing
<LaserJock> hmm, yeah
<TheMuso> User-agent masking.
<LaserJock> I thought about Wine but has flash
<imbrandon> yea and that ;)
<LaserJock> TheMuso: won't work
<imbrandon> LaserJock, my IE on wine loads flash just fine
<imbrandon> wiht crossover
<LaserJock> it's this really stupid Flash site, it doesn't even work in OS X
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> it works in Firefox in Windows
<LaserJock> but not linux or OS X
* Hobbsee goes to check how the install is going.
<imbrandon> hahah
<Hobbsee> hah.  it's still got 39 mins.  and drivers and everything else.  and reinstall all the rubbish.
<TheMuso> hehehe
<Hobbsee> and dad's sitting, browsing on his work laptop, ignoring it
<ajmitch> so most of the day then
<TheMuso> Linux rocks for that reason!
<Hobbsee> probably, yeah
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: exactly.  i could probably stick on my 2 or 3 OS's in that time
<Hobbsee> maybe not getting the updates though - they do take a while
<TheMuso> hehe yeah.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: How long till you fly out?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: upgraded to edgy yet?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no, mainly because i've been lazy, and havent installed another copy of dapper yet
<ajmitch> that's no excuse
<Hobbsee> and i hear it's broken
<ajmitch> bah
<ajmitch> more excuses
<TheMuso> hehe
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> well, more broken than the usual broken.
* TheMuso will use an edgy chroot for a while before most of the brokenness is sorted.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, axactly
<imbrandon> exactly
* Hobbsee will add an edgy partition, probably after monday.
<ajmitch> go all the way
<ajmitch> it's more fun if you do it that way
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: so exactly how many edgy machines do you have running at the moment?  :P
<ajmitch> 1
<Hobbsee> oh i know.  but they do say not to put it on production machines.
<ajmitch> though that has no desktop stuff installed
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: mmm okay.  is it broken beyond repair yet?
<imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~$ dchroot -c edgy -d
<imbrandon> Executing shell in 'edgy' chroot.
<imbrandon> (edgy32)brandon@voyager:~$ cat /etc/issue.net
<imbrandon> Ubuntu edgy (development branch)
<imbrandon> (edgy32)brandon@voyager:~$
<ajmitch> nah
* ajmitch should upgrade the box downstairs from sarge :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hehe yeah
<ajmitch> I might upgrade it to etch
<imbrandon> my file server is still sarge
* imbrandon hates samba in dapper
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Why so?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: Oh, 18 hrs or so, it's 7:30pm now and I leave around noon tommorow
<TheMuso> Right.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, it times out on drive mappings more than breezy or before, havent figured out why yet
* TheMuso flies out in 6 hours and 10 minutes. As in, the plane is due to take off.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, just gonna sleep inflight ;)
<TheMuso> If I can, yes.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: When you were at UBZ, was there net access from your rooms?
<ajmitch> not in the room I was in
<ajmitch> there was for others
<ajmitch> it depends on the hotel
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Well I know the one we are at for Paris does have net access.
<ajmitch> then you probably do
<TheMuso> Were there people in those rooms for the summit?
<TheMuso> Just trying to work out whether one has to pay for their own net access from their room.
<Kyral> Paris eh...
<TheMuso> I am assuming so.
<Kyral> hehe I wouldn't want to go
<TheMuso> Kyral: Why not?
<Kyral> well, I intend to wind up in France someday, but not for anything computer related
<ajmitch> TheMuso: you'll find out when you get there
<TheMuso> Yeah very likely.
* Kyral smirks
<Kyral> I wanna bike the Tour De France route :D
<TheMuso> hehe
<Kyral> Even if it takes me a month or two to do it :D
* imbrandon just wants to get away from the idiots in the us government
<Kyral> Don't worry 2008 is coming
<imbrandon> yup
<Kyral> I get the best graduation gift ever
<Kyral> the end of Dubya's term
<imbrandon> will be some major changes i hope or i will serouisly be moving to europe, i love america but its gotten out of hand
<Kyral> Yah also it gets boring
<Kyral> Need some variety
<imbrandon> true
<Kyral> I need to visit Italy sometime
<Kyral> <== Half Italian
* imbrandon is half irish half native america with a hint of german somewhere 
<NthDegree> lol
<imbrandon> ;)
* NthDegree is 3/4 english 1/4 german :D
<NthDegree> used to be 1/2 german till my mother got english citizenship :p
<imbrandon> heh
* Hobbsee is just australian.  how boring.
* NthDegree prays to lord linus that this bloody kernel works
<imbrandon> lol
<NthDegree> i have a SATA hard disk so life is $h!t for making things work well
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea but dont most australians have english blod somewhere down the line ?
<Hobbsee> er....ages ago...
<NthDegree> oh and I removed ext2 and 3 support, reiserFS support and XFS support :P
<imbrandon> NthDegree, my sata never give me problems ( hasent yet , knock on wood )
<NthDegree> imbrandon i get kernel sync panicks whenever I compile my own kernel
<imbrandon> just a sata150 but still ;)
<imbrandon> ouch
<imbrandon> kinda funny my fast hdds are in my slow machines and my fast machines still have pata drives
<Lathiat> sata300 really doesnt make a difference atm anyway
<Lathiat> unless you have a gigabyte i-ram or want NCQ
<imbrandon> Lathiat, yea thats what i';ve heard, my controller supports it but my drives are all sata150 ( 4x 400GB )
<NthDegree> my PC is just one 225GB you lucky ***** **** *** ********
<imbrandon> so i doubt i'll bother to buy sata300 drives soon unless i replace my pata drives in my amd64
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> well i've got 4x300G that are on sata3
<Lathiat> 00
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> hw raid or sw raid ? ( mine is all sw raid 0 )
<Lathiat> im not raiding them atm
<Lathiat> just 4 disks
<Lathiat> as i buy them incrementally
<Lathiat> but i use unionfs
<Lathiat> unionfs               1.1T  784G  318G  72% /storage
<NthDegree> the best invention i think one can make for linux now is a detection app for optimal kernel config
<Lathiat> makes fo reasy finding things
<Lathiat> NthDegree: just run the ubuntu kernel, easier. :)
<Lathiat> it 'detects' just fine :)
<NthDegree> Lathiat the ubuntu kernel has no reiser4 support and is very bloated with things a dedicated linux user does not need
<NthDegree> like who needs NTFS support if you refuse to use windows or even FAT32 support
<imbrandon> fat32 is nice for macos transfer ( seeing how HPFS+ write support is about par with NTFS write supoort )
<imbrandon> nice Lathiat
* NthDegree implements sudo make -i to avoid error 2 problems from stopping me =] 
<imbrandon> NthDegree, but that only matters if you dual boot with Mac OSX like i do on my iBook
<Hobbsee> hey, what's the p/w for the live cd?
<imbrandon> and sometimes its just as easy to copy to a samba share on the server
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, unbuntu/ubuntu
<Hobbsee> okay
<imbrandon> err ubuntu/ubuntu
<NthDegree> err kubuntu/ubuntu/xubuntu
<Hobbsee> okay, cool
<Hobbsee> dad wanted the live cd :P
* NthDegree cant use the live cd still
<NthDegree> wont mount FSes - kernel panic not syncing rubbish
<imbrandon> hahaha Hobbsee nice
* imbrandon see's Hobbsee slowly convert family
<Hobbsee> and now i'm going out, so i cant help him with it...
<Hobbsee> nah, that i doubt
<Hobbsee> oh well, i'm off...bye all
<imbrandon> l8tr
<NthDegree> i might be able to convert my brother
<NthDegree> cya
<NthDegree> my retarded brother who cant use windows correctly
<imbrandon> lol
<NthDegree> well if he can?t use windows then ubuntu shouldn?t be any harder
<NthDegree> oh and err, hope no-one tells him that if he comes on here for support :p
<ajmitch> we'll be sure to
<NthDegree> lol
<imbrandon> NthDegree, just gave him a ring, he said he'll be in IRC in a few moments from the live cd and will join -motu right away to look for you
<imbrandon> and let you walk him through installing it ;)
<NthDegree> lmfao
<NthDegree> he has my speedtouch USB modem so no chance :p
<imbrandon> lol
<NthDegree> meh another kernel with the same old panic problem :(
<Lathiat> whats the error?
<TheMuso> Bye all. Heading to airport. Hope to hear you on TeamSpeak for spec work.
<crimsun_> g'luck, be safe, luke
<woneck> i just read about a study that says gnu/linux is more expensive than windows. how can that be true? ( here it is: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver/facts/default.mspx )
<woneck> are they talking about services?
<LaserJock> umm, notice the URL
<woneck> LaserJock: i know it's microsoft, but is it not an independent study?
<woneck> i think they are quoting some other folks
<LaserJock> well, TBH I'm pretty sure MS can get people to say anything they want
<woneck> lol, that's right
<woneck> but if that were true, couldn't they be sued for it?
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> of course they could, than can get sued for lots of thing
<LaserJock> doesn't seem to stop them much
<LaserJock> and statistics can be bent to do anything you want pretty much
<woneck> right...
<LaserJock> I mean, that's not to say they are totally wrong
<LaserJock> but often you pick out the people with the experiences you want and the studies you want
<LaserJock> I guess that's just marketing
<crimsun_> no, they're mostly wrong just like the Linux/BSD/UNIX guys. No one's completely "right".
<LaserJock> except bddebian because dieties are like that
<crimsun_> yeah
<crimsun_> 512 MB RAM makes baby jebus weep
<LaserJock> but RHEL isn't terribly cheap I don't think
<crimsun_> it's something like $1k/seat iirc
<imbrandon> just as ubuntu server support ( ~$700 year per computer )
<LaserJock> and then you have MS standards
<LaserJock> even if you have a superior product, the switch can be very costly
<Hobbsee> hi all
<crimsun_> how was the exam?
<Hobbsee> far too easy
<Hobbsee> (fixing dad's computer at the moment)
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: how do i change the workgroup of a computer, again?
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Winders, or Linux?
<Hobbsee> linux
<Hobbsee> StevenK: ^
<Hobbsee> actually, we may not need it
<StevenK> Hobbsee: In smb.conf?
<StevenK> % ssh root@i grep workgroup /etc/samba/smb.conf workgroup = WEDONTSLEEP
* StevenK grumbles at gnome-term.
<StevenK> There was a newline in that output, you turkey!
<Hobbsee> StevenK: right
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Need/Want a hand?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: And how did you manage to get your Dad using Windows?
<StevenK> Er.. using Linux?
<StevenK> My mother asked which version of Windows my Ubuntu laptop was running. :-/
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> StevenK: his windows fubar'd again, he's on a hoary live cd
<Hobbsee> (yeah, ouch)
<Hobbsee> it's missing a dep, so it cant burn cds either
* StevenK flings a Breezy Live CD at Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: heh, you'd have to bring it over
<StevenK> You can't download one?
<imbrandon> horay ?
<imbrandon> ouch
<imbrandon> probbly wont make a good first impression ;)
<Hobbsee> haha, not much choice
<Hobbsee> it's got the k3b missing dep too, which sucks.
<imbrandon> ouch
<imbrandon> install to hdd and apt-get update
<imbrandon> hehe
<Hobbsee> it's fun throwing security out the window though - logging in as root
<imbrandon> wipe da winderz out
<Hobbsee> hah
<imbrandon> lol
<crimsun_> Hobbsee: sorry, I'm pretty useless w/ Windows
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: okay
<crimsun_> oh, samba? I'm useless there, too.
* crimsun_ thinks about his negative experiences suspending to RAM with usb and decides to revert the usb changes in -25.43
<Hobbsee> yeah, it wont share as root, unfortunately - wont let me connect
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, what are you trying to do ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: get dad's data off the drives...
<imbrandon> err i mean what are you having a problem with , mounting ntfs ?
<Hobbsee> no, now it's just trying to search for dad's outlook files, and trying to get anotehr computer to connect to it, as dad catn find his big USB stick, and we cant burn cds.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Can you expand won't share as root?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I can come over armed with recover-y type stuff?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: logging in from a win based computer, with root, and the root p/w (which i set) - it wont let him log in
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee considers that
<imbrandon> outlook files in documents and setting s / username / local data / microsoft / outlook
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, we found that, but it's old
<imbrandon> you need the *.pst files
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yes, but we catn find where the recent ones are.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: What about mounting the Windows volume with uid=<ubuntu user>
<Hobbsee> StevenK: that's teh way it was mounted, i think
<imbrandon> ahh unless he manualy changed the outlook settings that SHOULD be where they are but sudo updatedb and locate pst should work too
<StevenK> Hobbsee: If you'd like to call me and beg, feel free.
* StevenK takes the puppy for a walk.
<dsas> if it's outlook express I think it's not .pst files but something else (idx?)
<imbrandon> yea OE is diffrent
<imbrandon> ye idx i think
<imbrandon> yea*
<crimsun_> aha! found and hijacked a Dell Optiplex GX620
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, and if they are not very big just ftp them somewhere from the command line
<imbrandon> crimsun_, gj
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: he wont like that idea...
<Hobbsee> crumbs it's slow
<imbrandon> well you could tmp setup a local ftp server on your ubuntu if you want or use sftp and do ssh to your box
<imbrandon> local lan should be fast
<crimsun_> man, compiling on a 3.4 GHz machine beats the pants off a 600 MHz one
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i dont know how to use the ssh
<imbrandon> crimsun_, lol yup
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: rofl!
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, is gftp installed on the horay live cd?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: no idea
<Hobbsee> brb
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> it will do sftp
<imbrandon> all you would have to do is install openssh-server on your normal box
<dsas> nautilus will do sftp by itself.
<imbrandon> will it ? wasent sure, i dont use gnome much
<crimsun_> (they're both Kubuntu users)
<imbrandon> lol
<dsas> ah, well i'd assume kde has some equivalent feature.
<imbrandon> it does but idk about horray , and i bet she has a gnome horay live cd
<imbrandon> just guessing
<Hobbsee> hmmm.
<imbrandon> dsas, can you just sftp://user@ip in natulas
<imbrandon> ?
<Hobbsee> no, kde hoary live cd
<imbrandon> Hobbsee,  install openssh-server on your normal box and try to use sftp://user@ip in konq
<imbrandon> should be able to drag files to that
<imbrandon> once you find them
<imbrandon> local lan should be fast about it too
<imbrandon> and no complicated setup
<imbrandon> heh
<dsas> imbrandon: yep
<StevenK> Oof.
<imbrandon> cool , hopefully konq has that too lol
<StevenK> That wasn't so much me taking the puppy for a walk, as the puppy taking me for a run.
<imbrandon> if not gftp can be apt-get from the livecd
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I was thinking about it while walking the puppy. If the Windows FS is mounted with the uid of the ubuntu, try and connect as user ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> tried that before, i think
<Hobbsee> got some of the files on a USB disk
<Hobbsee> er, or not.  werid.
<Hobbsee> bleh.  how do i stop a USB disk from being busy?
<StevenK> You don't.
<StevenK> You're trying to umount it?
<Hobbsee> yes
<StevenK> If so, fuser -m <mount point> will tell you which processes aren't letting go.
<imbrandon> then kill -9 if need be
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> 23770c?
<Hobbsee> command to untar a whole heap of files?
<Mithrandir> for f in *.tar; do tar xf $f; done ?
<imbrandon> your untaring them on the usb ?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: 23770 is the PID, 'ps aux | grep 23770' to see what it is.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: no, just on my dkesopt :P
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i just pulled it
<imbrandon> gahaha
<StevenK> Oh. 23770c tells you 23770 is in one of the USB keys directories.
<Hobbsee> hmm...got most of the files...
<Hobbsee> StevenK: hey, what happens if you rm -rf /tmp?
<Hobbsee> bah.  nothing too bad.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: had enough of a go at it - thanks for the help :)
<Hobbsee> thanks everyone else
* Hobbsee can go eat lunch now.
<Toadstool> 'morning
<Hobbsee> hey Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi Hobbsee
<imbrandon> heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey imbrandon
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: his system decided to boot off the slave disk.  grr.
<imbrandon> ahh ouch
* Hobbsee shrugs
<Hobbsee> he can fix it :P
<Hobbsee> hey \sh
<\sh> moins Hobbsee
<sivang> morning fellas
<Hobbsee> hey sivang
* sivang hugs Hobbsee 
<sivang> Hobbsee: how are you?
* Hobbsee hugs sivang in return
<Hobbsee> sivang: well, i did my computing exam, then tried to fix some of dad's windows computer with a kubuntu hoary live cd - which was interesting
<sivang> Hobbsee: how did he react to the change?
<Hobbsee> sivang: well, he asked for the cd, and played around while i was at my exam, then gave up, i think
<Hobbsee> and he panicked that i wouldnt be able to get off the stuff he wanted.
<zakame> hi all
<phanatic> afternoon MOTUland
<zakame> hi phanatic
<Hobbsee> hey zakame and phanatic
<phanatic> hey Hobbsee and zakame
<zakame> wb Hobbsee , heya jpatrick
<Hobbsee> thanks zakame
<jpatrick> hi zakame
* zakame reanimates his del.icio.us 
* \sh just released jabber.kubuntu.de to the public
<zakame> \sh: w00t
<\sh> zakame: wait for planet ;)
<zakame> \sh: that should be useful for new kunberos like me :)
<\sh> zakame: http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/222-Jabber-Services-jabber.kubuntu.de-for-the-masses.html
<_ion> del.icio.us is handy.
<zakame> coolness
<\sh> spelling mistakes are going to be fixed in no time....thx to zerlinna ;)
<siretart> \sh: is jabber.kubuntu.de the same as jabberme.net?
<\sh> siretart: same server, no transports ;)
<siretart> ah. I see
<zakame> \sh: hehe, well what's important isthat you got the message across :)
<\sh> siretart: but I hope only for a short period of time...need to find some bigger server platform ;)
<siretart> \sh: what are you thinking of?
<\sh> dunno...dual core opteron with a 500 gig sata hd?
<\sh> 16GB ram
<siretart> \sh: welcome back to planet.ubuntu.com :)
<\sh> siretart: thx :)
<\sh> siretart: now waiting for tuesday ;)
<\sh> siretart: and for a fixed udev ;)
<siretart> \sh: tuesday?
<\sh> siretart: TB
<siretart> ah
<siretart> you were missing the last time, right
<\sh> siretart: yeah the time schedule doesn't fit with mine :)
<\sh> siretart: I don't have any internet connection in the hotel
<\sh> siretart: so next tuesday, I'll have to sit somehow longer in the office
<siretart> uuh. quite really long :)
<\sh> 2200 our time
<kelmo> gday siretart
<siretart> huhu kelmo !
<gilligan_> hello
<Hobbsee> hey gilligan_
<gilligan_> was browsing around on wiki.ubuntu.com and thought I could start contributing somehow.. found the list of requested packages -- started working on gens .. and boy the build system is *broken*
<\sh> gilligan_: what build system?
<Hobbsee> for edgy?  yeah
<Hobbsee> udev on edgy, likely
<gilligan_> naah :)
<\sh> and what is gens?
<gilligan_> the automake stuff from gens is crippled. that's what I was saying
<gilligan_> \sh, gens is some genesis emulator
<\sh> gilligan_: you tried autoreconf?
<\sh> or the manual method of aclocal, automake, autoconf? eventually libtoolize?
<gilligan_> \sh, i'm on it
<\sh> gilligan_: add automake, autotools-dev, autoconf to the list of build deps , adjust the debian/rules file, and add autoreconf or aclocal,automake,autoconf in front of the configure call
<\sh> gilligan_: if this won't help, bug upstream;)
<\sh> re
<gilligan_> :-] 
<\sh> damn netcologne disconnects
<gilligan_> hm, i am still lacking some experience with autotools.. should have another look at auto.pdf I suppose.. but can someone give me some info on this :
<gilligan_> gilligan@toontown:~/gens/GensForLinux$ autoreconf
<gilligan_> aclocal: configure.in: 10: macro `AM_PROG_CC_C_O' not found in library
<gilligan_> autoreconf: aclocal failed with exit status: 1
<\sh> gilligan_: check in the source dir if there is a macro dir of AM stuff
<\sh> if so, do something like this: aclocal -I <dirname of the macros>
<gilligan_> hm, nope
<\sh> aclocal , automake, autoconf is your friend then
<\sh> let me have a look...where can I download this thing
<gilligan_> but I see configure does not exit cleanly either
<gilligan_> phone
<gilligan_> brb
<gilligan_> \sh, http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gens/gens-src-multiplatform-2005feb13.zip?download
<gilligan_> \sh, be sure to run sed -i '' "s/\r//g" $file  on all files to get rid of the ^M line endings
<\sh> outch
<gilligan_> hehe
<\sh> ugly
<gilligan_> indeed
<gilligan_> also configure will fail in line 3966
<gilligan_> and i just accidently overwrote my changes, d'oh
<gilligan_> if test x"$NASM" != xno; then
<gilligan_>         NASM_VERSION_FOUND=`$NASM -v | awk '{print $3}'`
<gilligan_>  else
<gilligan_>         { { echo "$as_me:$LINENO: error: *** nasm not found!" >&5
<gilligan_> echo "$as_me: error: *** nasm not found!" >&2;}
<gilligan_>    { (exit 1); exit 1; }; }
<gilligan_>  fi
<gilligan_> that crap can(has to be) be replaced
<\sh> gilligan_: try sudo apt-get install automake1.9 and then aclocal-1.9, automake-1.9
<\sh> gilligan_: you are running dapper, right?
<gilligan_> yep
<\sh> you should have libgtk2.0-dev and libsdl*-dev  installed as well, if you don't use a clean chroot
<gilligan_> there is no aclocal package tho
<gilligan_> I do
<gilligan_> have them installed i mena
<gilligan_> mean
<\sh> gilligan_: no aclocal is in automake1.9
<gilligan_> yep
<\sh> the package is automake1.9 and the binaries you have to start are aclocal-1.9 and automake-1.9
<gilligan_> eh, okay.. i misread your line :)
<gilligan_> yep right
<gilligan_> so far so good
<\sh> ok...after doing aclocal-1.9 ; automake-1.9 ; autoconf ... ./configure should work
<\sh> if not, it's most likley upstream bug
<\sh> likely even
<\sh> the heat
<gilligan_> ah,seems much better now
<gilligan_> \sh, thanks for the help
<\sh> gilligan_: my pleasure
<kilian> hi
<kilian> can someone explain to my why currently debhelper is uninstallable through intltool being not updated?
<kilian> or rather when this is supposed to be fixed...
<kilian> right now to me it looks like:
<kilian> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<kilian>   po-debconf: Depends: intltool-debian (>= 0.34.2+20060512) but 0.34.1+20050828ubuntu1 is to be installed
<kilian> E: Broken packages
<Hobbsee> kilian: because they broke it?
<kilian> well, that's as far as i was.. when is it gonna be unbroken?
<kilian> anyone planing on uploading the new version into edgy?
<azeem> probably soonsih
<kilian> yeh, that's what i thought the last two days already =)
<Hobbsee> kilian: i think they broke udev as well, too...
<kilian> udev is not as much a build-depends for me =)
<gilligan_> hm, what documentation should I follow to learn ubuntu packaging ? the wiki is a bit chaotic to be honest
<Hobbsee> gilligan_: see the topic
<gilligan_> Hobbsee, that's what I am referring to as chaotic :)
<\sh> kilian: be patient
<Hobbsee> see the message from ubotu too
<gilligan_> ah,thanks
<gilligan_> why isn't the packaging guide linked on the motu wiki ?? :-] 
<gilligan_> or maybe I have tomatoes on my eyes again
* gilligan_ rubs eyes
<zealot> Well why don't you link it in the wiki :)
<gilligan_> good point :)
<Laser_away> gilligan_: because I haven't linked it well
<Laser_away> gilligan_: I need to go through and clean up the wiki
<Laser_away> it's on my TODO list ;-)
<gilligan_> well i'm adding that link now if you don't mind
<Laser_away> on what page?
<gilligan_> sec..
<gilligan_> registration stalls for some reason..
<gilligan_> Laser_away, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
<gilligan_> Laser_away, under Package new software for Ubuntu yourself
<Laser_away> ok
<gilligan_> wiki.ubuntu.com is /horribly/ slow for me right now.. maybe bad routing
<Laser_away> sometimes it's that way, there could also be some work going on
<Laser_away> I see the change, thanks
<gilligan_> Laser_away, there still seems to be some redundancy here and there
<gilligan_> Laser_away, like I would rather take out the two links in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New/HowTo and add them to the list to which I just added the other link
<Laser_away> yeah
<Laser_away> there are lots of pages that need cleaned up around there
<gilligan_> also..
<gilligan_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging
<gilligan_> is kind of pointless
<gilligan_> Laser_away, well if it's okay i'll do some more changes. I just don't want to mess around too much being someone who just registered on launchpad 5mins ago :)
<\sh> right, PbuilderHowto and DeveloperResources are missing ;)
<gilligan_> ah well .. I have to clean up my appartment
<gilligan_> i'll be back later :] 
<Laser_away> gilligan_: feel free to clean stuff up, just don't delete any pages yet
<gilligan_> Laser_away, alright
<Laser_away> gilligan_: talk to the doc team in #ubuntu-doc if you have questions about wiki stuff
<gilligan_> no prob
<gilligan_> okay
<gilligan_> but for now i'm away for a good while cleaning my appartment :] 
<gilligan_> laters
<Laser_away> cya
<phanatic> any MOTUs alive and willing to upload to dapper-updates? :)
<freeflying-g4> phanatic: can motu upload to updates?
<phanatic> mdz agreed to ask a motu for upload
<freeflying-g4> phanatic: if it's in universe, I can upload it for you
<NthDegree> man i want reiser4 support :( but I can't ever get any kernels I compile to boot
<phanatic> it's in universe of course :)
<freeflying-g4> NthDegree: join #ubuntu for help
<phanatic> freeflying-g4: debdiff and corrected changelog is under bug 47671
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47671 in sysinfo "Data in Hardware and USB tab truncated" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47671
<NthDegree> freeflying-g4 reiser4 support is experimental, therefore wouldn't it be more appropriate to ask here?\
<\sh> NthDegree: no.
<freeflying-g4> phanatic: okey, I'd switch to kubuntu, now I'm in osx :)
<NthDegree> doh lol
<\sh> NthDegree: this is #ubuntu-motu which deals with development for universe. not for answering questions about experimental software which is not even in vanilla kernels
<siretart> phanatic: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3006007/sysinfo_0.6.1-0ubuntu5_v3.debdiff?
<\sh> NthDegree: actually there is not even experimental support for reiserfs4 in ubuntu at all
<phanatic> siretart: yes, but mdz told me to fix the changelog, that's attached too
<NthDegree> why are the reiser4progs supported officially then :| makes no real sense
<freeflying-g4> siretart: will you upload it? if you do, then I needn't switch to kubuntu now  :)
<\sh> phanatic: what he meant was in the debian/changelog
<\sh> * debian/patches/other_info-more-buffer.patch:
<\sh> +    - updated to fix another issue (Close: Malone #47254)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47254 in sysinfo "sysinfo hangs when reading /proc/bus/input/devices" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47254
<\sh> phanatic: explain "another issue" ;)
<siretart> freeflying-g4: I'm on it
<\sh> phanatic: and provide a complete new debdiff ;)
<phanatic> \sh: that's what i meant by corrected changelog
<phanatic> he just told me to attach the corrected changelog
<\sh> phanatic: provide a new debdiff..it's easier for the uploader :)
<phanatic> \sh: <mdz> phanatic: code changes look fine, just update the changelog and go ahead
<phanatic> true :)
<\sh> phanatic: yes..it means provide a new changelog, do a new debdiff, and attach it to the bug,
<phanatic> siretart: shall i do a quick debdiff?
<phanatic> \sh: thank for clearing up, i'll do so in the future
<\sh> phanatic: package maintainer slang...we need a dictionary ;)
<phanatic> \sh: i'm still learning, so doing what other people tell me to do :)
<phanatic> now i learnt another thing ;)
<siretart> phanatic: next time, this time I already merged it
<\sh> phanatic: that's wrong...If anyone tells you to jump from the bridge, to fix bug #1, then you shouldn't listen to it ;)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Baltix "Microsoft has a majority market share" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<phanatic> siretart: sorry for the inconvenience
<phanatic> \sh: heh :) i won't do that of course...
<phanatic> hey, Baltix?
<phanatic> quite interesting...
<phanatic> :)
<\sh> siretart: how is the weather at your place?
<siretart> \sh: way too hot
<\sh> siretart: thx...so I need _more cold beer_ in the next couple of hours
<siretart> well, today it's okay. but the rest of the week, it was too hot
<\sh> no here next to cologne it's too hot
<siretart> phanatic: uploaded
<phanatic> siretart: thank you
<tseng> Seveas: are you present?
<Seveas> tseng, presently I am 
<tseng> :)
<tseng> Seveas: can i send you a msg?
<Seveas> tseng, sure, no need to ask
<ogra> Seveas, not on the plane yet ?
<Seveas> ogra, I'm not going, didn't get sponsored
<ogra> NOOO
<ogra> bah
<Seveas> blame sabdfl ;)
<shawarma> How many of you guys will be there by tomorrow?
<shawarma> I arrive at around noon and have nothing to do until Monday when the summit officially begins. :-)
<ogra> shawarma, everybody (or most ppl) will arrive during the day
<\sh> where is the next summit/conf/whatever of ubuntu? I need to save money for it ;)
<ogra> so there is chance to walk around the city or find a bar and have a beer etc
<\sh> moulin rouge is nice at night ;)
<shawarma> ogra: Sounds great.. Maybe if i could get your phone number we could meet up?
<shawarma> Or maybe I could just stop by your hotel and look for people wearing Ubuntu merchandise. :-)
<\sh> shawarma: you can try to go to the artist area, mon matre.
<\sh> shawarma: and the eiffel tower ;) walk upstairs, don't use the lift..
<shawarma> \sh: you're kidding, right?
<\sh> shawarma: no. I did it three times...(when I was 16/17/18)
<\sh> shawarma: and take a lot of water with you
<shawarma> \sh: Good idea! someone should set up a shop halfway up selling cold water.
<\sh> shawarma: when you are on top of it, you feel great and you enjoy the view much more..
<roryy> greetings. i'm trying to package a kernel module for a softmodem (Intel 536EP) and I'd like a little advice. How (if at all) should I get the thing to be loaded at boot -- with a modprobe in an /etc/init.d script ? I'd like to add a line to /etc/modules, but I don't know if there's a good way to do that (and undo it using postrm or whatever)
<ogra> \sh, if the weather is even remotely like in germany atm, it wont be fun to climb montmatre
<\sh> ogra: mon matre is not so difficult...use the metro and just walk right up...following the young people with red wine and guitars
<ogra> \sh, and be boiled by the sun while climbing ?
<phanatic> you can also use the furniculare if you're lazy ;)
<\sh> shawarma: you could also visit the graveyard of jim morrison :)
<\sh> "this is the end"...
<shawarma> Is that in Paris? Weird..
<ogra> yep
<\sh> yes
<shawarma> I
<\sh> damn. paris has a lot of things to see
<shawarma> woops
<ogra> shawarma, see -devel for my mobile # but i'll go to the hotel anyway first so we'll likely meet there
<\sh> behind the gare du norde area (north central train station) there is an indian area...nice food there
<shawarma> ogra: Got it.
<zul> hey
<zyga> hello
<zul> sue mentioned here has also been fixed. The GUI
<zul> configuration issue is worked on in bug #37451 and the patch already
<zul> works for some people.sue mentioned here has also been fixed. The GUI
<zul> configuration issue is worked on in bug #37451 and the patch already
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 37451 in linux-wlan-ng "prism2 support out of the box" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37451
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 37451 in linux-wlan-ng "prism2 support out of the box" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37451
<zul> works for some people.sorry..
<zul> wtf?
<ajmitch> morning
<zul> hey ajmitch how is it going?
<ajmitch> ok
* ajmitch just crawled out of bed
<zul> its dead here
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> everyone off to paris..
<zul> i think we are only two who arent there
<\sh> no me is at home too
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<zul> wohoo...hey \sh
<\sh> ajmitch: how nice it is...i meet you on irc just before you go to bed, and I meet you on irc when you wake up...
<Gloubiboulga> /me is at home too, but I live at 15km from Paris :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<\sh> Gloubiboulga: so you will attend the summit?
<Gloubiboulga> \sh, yes
<\sh> Gloubiboulga: cool :)
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<Gloubiboulga> it's my first ubuntu meeting :)
<zul> heh...going to see the high priest for the cult?
<\sh> Gloubiboulga: don't go to sabdfl and ask for an autograph...
<ajmitch> ask him to sign your gpg key
<Gloubiboulga> hehe :)
<\sh> during linuxtag juliux went to sabdfl and asked him to sign his t-shirt
<zul> heh...fabbione introduced me to sabdfl in montreal
<\sh> that was so .. embarassing
<\sh> like the girls when they see robbie williams
<ajmitch> get an autograph from elmo :)
<ajmitch> "I spoke to elmo & lived!"
<\sh> which is more then cool...to get an autograph from elmo..."look, I have a signed t-shirt from the ftpmaster" ;)
<Gloubiboulga> lol, so I'm not the only one scared by elmo? ;)
<\sh> elmo is a nice guy.
<\sh> no matter what everybody else is saying.
<tseng> he can be scary if you take his picture
<tseng> big red guy chasing after you
<Gloubiboulga> \sh, I'm sure he is, like every ubuntu/canonical guys
<\sh> Gloubiboulga: http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/v/ubz/20051104/P1000152.JPG.html this guy is much more dangerous then elmo
<zul> arrgh!
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<jpatrick> hi Toadstool
<Gloubiboulga> hey Toadstool
<\sh> zul: am I right? ;)
<zul> yeah..
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<Toadstool> hi jpatrick & Gloubiboulga
<\sh> I tried to take a picture of jdub in a seriours position...but every time I hit the button, he just made some strange crazy face..
<Toadstool> :)
<\sh> I think it has something to do with mad cow desease or being allergic against cameras
<Toadstool> maybe both
<zul> or being an aussie
<Toadstool> :)
<\sh> so scrapy ;)
<Gloubiboulga> good night Universe, I'm exhausted...
<Toadstool> g'night Gloubiboulga
<Toadstool> I should go to bed too but I've far too much work to finish before that :/
<gilligan_> hi
<\sh> re gilligan_
<gilligan_> :] 
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-18
<piphoe`> Toadstool, what ALL u got to do before sleeptime anyways ??
<Toadstool> avoid irc first :)
<Toadstool> and finish an important school report I had to deliver yesterday
<Toadstool> I'm so late
<zul> heylo
<ryanakca> ehlo zul :)
<zul> hi ryanakca
* Hobbsee pokes the room - all the dev channels are so quiet!
* Hawkwind Looks at the hole in his chest from being poked so hard and goes back to sleep
<Hobbsee> haha
<Kyral> zzzz
<Kyral> must write....more...perl...dcop...interfaces
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> go Kyral!
* Hobbsee hands Kyral some caffiene
<Kyral> There is already a DCOP module in CPAN
<Kyral> and DCOP::Amarok::Playlist
<Gloubiboulga> morning MOTU world
<Kyral> Night <FINALLY>
<ivoks> pygi: hi
<pygi> hey ivoks
<ivoks> pygi: did you get SoC project?
<pygi> ivoks, I am mentoring 3 students
<ivoks> nice
<ivoks> what are they doing?
<pygi> Bzr-UI, Gedit bzr plugin, and Evo plugin for syncing with google cal, and palm (and stuff) devices
<Amaranth> fun
* Amaranth wants the first two
<Amaranth> that reminds me, i need to figure out why my module doesn't give the same output as the one i started with
<phanatic> morning MOTUs
<Toadstool> 'morning
<Tonio_> hey
<\sh> moins
<siretart> morning
<Whoopie> crimsun: who could sponsor the upload for your debdiff in bug #38272?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 38272 in xserver-xorg-input-mouse "option EmulateWheelTimeout not working" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38272
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<siretart> ajmitch: can you help me with an selinux problem?
<ajmitch> I guess
<siretart> Upstream's Makefile.am is containing this fragment: http://paste.debian.net/7711, which makes my package FTBFS
<ajmitch> what issues could you have?
<siretart> at the chcon part (line 13 in the paste).
<siretart> why is upstream doing this? is there a more clever way to do this?
<ajmitch> that's marking the library as being broken
<ajmitch> just strip it out for now, tar won't store the security label anyway
<siretart> 'broken'?
<siretart> so I should 'just' remove the whole hook?
<ajmitch> from lines 7-16
<ajmitch> 'broken', because it indicates bad coding, that is being worked around
<siretart> ah. I see. thanks for advice
<ajmitch> what upstream package?
<_ion> In a situation like that, one should generally 1) remove the whole block or 2) source-depend on the program and make the block use it without the test.
<siretart> ajmitch: xine-lib
<ajmitch> figures
<_ion> (Well, in 2 the test doesn't cause harm.)
<ajmitch> the chcon part is saying that the policy should let it use an executable stack, iirc
<siretart> ChangeLog:  * Fix using xine-lib on systems with SELinux enabled
<ajmitch> 'fix'
<siretart> from upstream changelog :/
<ajmitch> might be executable heap, I can't recall :)
<ajmitch> http://people.redhat.com/drepper/textrelocs.html
<ajmitch> aha
<_ion> Tremulous <http://tremulous.sourceforge.net/> would be a nice addition to universe. The code is GPL and the artwork is CC BY-SA 2.5
<\sh> i would like to package nexuiz, but I don't find the source tarball, but it's gpl even the artwork
<ThiefOfBaghdad> Anybody able to upgrade libglib2.0 ?
<ThiefOfBaghdad> It keeps poping up err in reading header files
<ThiefOfBaghdad> or rather Bad Header Line
<ajmitch> ThiefOfBaghdad: if it's edgy, then it's known & will be sorted eventually, and people shouldn't expect edgy to work, boot or be functional
<ThiefOfBaghdad> dapper ajmitch
<\sh> oh nexuiz is alrady on revu
<\sh> old version indeed
<ajmitch> ThiefOfBaghdad: sounds more like a sources.list or mirror problem then
<\sh> siretart: btw...is it possible to upload an already uploaded package (new version of course) by a different maintainer?
<ajmitch> \sh: on REVU? yes, it'll overwrite the old one
<\sh> ajmitch: ok...I never tried it :)
<Hobbsee> heya \sh and ajmitch
<ajmitch> it's happened a couple of times
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<ThiefOfBaghdad> I tried all different mirrors ajmitch . "us." "archive." "in." All giving the same crap
<_ion> thiefofbaghdad: All of those point to the same addresses.
<ThiefOfBaghdad> _ion> can you suggest some other mirror then. It is a problem with these packages only.
<ThiefOfBaghdad> _ion> Others get upgraded smoothly
<ThiefOfBaghdad> _ion> this problem has been lingering around for about two weeks now
<\sh> ThiefOfBaghdad: can you paste the errors on pastbin pls
<\sh> but actually it's an #ubuntu question
<ThiefOfBaghdad> ok I will ask there
<\sh> ThiefOfBaghdad: no put the error output on pastebin
<\sh> I don't think it's a problem with the archive..because I didn't have problems with archive.ubuntu.com
<\sh> and if there would be a problem, we should have more impact
<ThiefOfBaghdad> \sh> http://pastebin.com/716204
<ThiefOfBaghdad> Similar errors for libtiff4 and 4 other packages
<\sh> ThiefOfBaghdad: strange, never had this problem, and us.archive and archive are on the same ip...
<ThiefOfBaghdad> only for some 4 packages out of the 8 listed.
<\sh> remove the files in /var/lib/apt/lists/
<\sh> and do an apt-get update again
<\sh> ThiefOfBaghdad: and did it work?
<ThiefOfBaghdad> update going on!
<ThiefOfBaghdad> \sh> am on snail net :-) 64Kbps!
<tuxmaniac> \sh> http://pastebin.com/716227
<tuxmaniac> same error
<\sh> rm /var/cache/apt/pkgcache.bin ; rm /var/cache/apt/srcpkgcache.bin
<\sh> I'm sure it's a local problem
<ajmitch> this tends to be ISPs having broken stuff in proxies
<ajmitch> bug 26083
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 26083 in apt "'Bad header line' error trying to update breezy/dapper" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/26083
<\sh> wtf
<ajmitch> proxies can be great for breaking the world
<\sh> oh joy
<\sh> in times where bandwidth is cheap
<ajmitch> cheap, unless you live in NZ
<tuxmaniac> Oh my god. Then I will never be able to upgrade these 4 packages is it? But other packages load. If it is a proxy problem then none of the packags should load right?
<tuxmaniac> I mean load -> upgrade
<\sh> no
<\sh> some files are in the cache which are broken
<\sh> and those files you likely need to update, and after the cache is not cleaned from those broken data files (by your isp) it could be a fun game
<\sh> solution: kick your ISP or use another one without a proxy ;)
<ajmitch> night all
<Hobbsee> night ajmitch
<siretart> re
<\sh> re siretart
<siretart> \sh: question answered?
<\sh> siretart: yepp
<\sh> boah...it's too hot here
<kelmo> how hot?
<\sh> I'll hang my washing and go to a query pond
<siretart> kelmo: heyho
<\sh> in my flat? 40-45 degrees
<\sh> under the roof
<kelmo> crap, that is way too hot for comfort
<siretart> kelmo: here at least 38 degrees
<kelmo> gday siretart
<\sh> siretart: in the shadow?
<kelmo> well, we had similar temps for quite a few months down in these parts ;-)
<siretart> kelmo: I think we should file a RC bug to prevent propagation of wpasupplicant to testing. what do you think?
<\sh> kelmo: where is "down in these parts"?
<kelmo> \sh: brisbane, australia
<siretart> \sh: in my room here. outside I'm not sure, but 30 minimum
<\sh> kelmo: oh .. down under ;) well you are able to take those temperatures ;)
<kelmo> siretart: if you think that is what is best for the project, i am not sure
<siretart> kelmo: I think we should have some more testing in unstable.
<paniq> okay, what is the new testing then? ;)
<paniq> err, unstable.
<siretart> kelmo: so that we have more time to consider reverting to 0.4 branch
<kelmo> siretart: i'd suggest making having that conversation on the list in the coming days, and make a decision before EOW
<kelmo> s/making//
<siretart> kelmo: Ok. agreed
<kelmo> siretart: i would need time to think thoroughly about that, and that won't be tonight ;-)
<kelmo> siretart: and maybe Kyle and/or others would have voice too
<siretart> sure
<kelmo> but basically, you are asking the wrong man, 0.5 has features which i like ;-) so i need to put those feeling aside and think objectively about the larger picture
<\sh> .oO(there is no future, until you shape the future yourself ;))
<paniq> .oO(jesus christ is our saviour. no, wait...)
<kelmo> siretart: what concerns do you have? mostly fact that it is not the stable version as tagged by upstream?
<kelmo> or other concerns too?
<siretart> kelmo: my concerns are a) bugs in the 0.5 branch, (not that unlikely, because I expect more test coverage on 'stable' branches), and that the 0.5 branch is too much in flux, read: behavior changes in subsequent releases of that branch
<kelmo> siretart: 100% understood
<kelmo> most recent changesets are focusing on the win32 port . . .
<kelmo> i have never got around to trying the win32 wpa_supplicant
<pianoboy3333> Anyone know of a deb for libncurses version 4?
<pianoboy3333> bleh
<pianoboy3333> sorry
<pianoboy3333> Does anyone know of a deb for libnotify version 4?
<\sh> checked packages.debian.org in experimental?
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> I may have to package a couple Perl modules...
<Kyral> yah I have to....
<Kyral> the DCOP module isn't in Ubuntu...
<\sh> use python for qt/kde  stuff it's better and easier to read
<Kyral> Psh
<Kyral> I can use whatever I like
<Kyral> and my perl code can be read :P
<Kyral> Thats odd...there was a dcopperl package in Debian Woody
<Kyral> hmm maybe...
<Kyral> damnit they are only for KDE2
<Kyral> and this is just a way for me to script Konversation things
<Kyral> Besides I'm learning Perl right now ;P
<chantra> hi, I'm having troubles to generate the .source.changes file when packaging
<chantra> can somebody help me out
<Sp4rKy|AWAY> what' s your issue ?
<chantra> well, I do compile the package fine using dpkg-buildackage -rfakeroot -kmykey
<chantra> when then I want to generate the source;changes using dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S -kmykey
<chantra> there is no source.changes file appearing :s
<chantra> I don't know what I'm missing here
<chantra> Sp4rKy:
<Gloubiboulga> do you have an error message?
<Sp4rKy> chantra, do you have a valid orig filename ?
<Sp4rKy> chantra, it should be <yourpackage>_<yourversion>.orig.tar.gz
<chantra> Sp4rKy: yes, At least I guess :)
<chantra> Sp4rKy: Gloubiboulga this is what I get when signing the files:
<chantra> Merged changes with ../subtitleeditor_0.8.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes signfile ../subtitleeditor_0.8.1-0ubuntu1_i386.changes
<chantra> and then, there is no source.changes in the directory
<Sp4rKy> Gloubiboulga, i let you solve this issue , i know nothing about merging
<chantra> :)
<Sp4rKy> Gloubiboulga, i hope you'll learn to me
<chantra> this procedure should be fine compare to what is told at
<chantra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU?action=show&redirect=REVU
<Gloubiboulga> could you paste the entire output you got when running 'dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa'?
<Gloubiboulga> I'll have a look after dinner if nobody find a solution 'til then ;)
<chantra> shall I privmsg to you?
<Gloubiboulga> chantra, paste the text on http://pastebin.com, it's easier
<chantra> Gloubiboulga: here it is:
<chantra> http://pastebin.com/716814
<Gloubiboulga> chantra, doyou have the same problem if you remove the *changes files before creating the source package?
<chantra> Gloubiboulga: no, it create but I can't upload to revu :s
<chantra> Checking Signature on .changes
<chantra> gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.
<chantra> gpg: the signature could not be verified.
<chantra> while doing dput
<Gloubiboulga> chantra, your key has been added by a REVU admin?
<chantra> yep
<chantra> if i upload the i386.changes (not source.changes) it uploads fine
<Gloubiboulga> odd
<chantra> yep
<Gloubiboulga> what's your package name?
* Kyral is listening to "Ai (Chuuseishin)" by Excel Saga on Excel Saga Opening [amaroK] 
<jpatrick> np: "And It Rained All Night" - Thom Yorke | The Eraser [amaroK] 
<Kyral> whoops wrong channel
<Kyral> I wish I could understand how this perl DCOP module works
<jpatrick> Kyral: now you've made start
<chantra> Gloubiboulga: subtitleeditor-0.8.1
<Kyral> jpatrick: huh?
<jpatrick> on the now playing thing ;)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I ment to send it into #ubuntuforums
* _ion played Bjrk & Thom Yorke  I've Seen It All a while ago. :-)
<_ion> On the Thom Yorke thing. ;-)
<jpatrick> Thon Yorke is god
<_ion> Not to mention Bjrk.
<Kyral> I should learn Ruby
<_ion> kyral: Yes.
<Kyral> This month's Linux Journal is practically devoted to it
<Kyral> how are the Ruby bindings to DCOP?
<_ion> I have no idea.
<jpatrick> _ion: have you listened to his "solo" album?
<_ion> jpatrick: Nope.
<\sh> Kyral: you don't want to use ruby
<\sh> Kyral: ;)
<_ion> sh: Yes, he does. ;-)
<_ion> Fight! Fight!
<Gloubiboulga> chantra, you might want to ask to a REVU admin, I can't really help... sorry
<\sh> sorry, I just had in the office some ruby code
<chantra> who are they?
<chantra> Gloubiboulga:
<\sh> chantra: what's up?
<_ion> Some Ruby propaganda, written by me: http://johan.kiviniemi.name/stuff/python-ruby/
<Gloubiboulga> chantra, \sh is an admin :)
<Kyral> \sh: You just said I didn't want to learn Perl :P
<chantra> \sh: I can generate the source.changes when dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S kmykey
<Kyral> \sh: Python zealot :P
<chantra> \sh: see http://pastebin.com/716814
<\sh> Kyral: no..perl and python ;
* Kyral likes Bash :P
<\sh> chantra: give me a sec
<chantra> okie dokie
<Kyral> Bash has bindings to EVERYTHING :D
<\sh> chantra: did you send a signed mail to keyring@revu.tauware.de
<chantra> yep, I already managed to upload files
<chantra> \sh: like http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2313
<\sh> -rw-------  1 siretart revu    2026 2006-06-18 13:15 subtitleeditor_0.8.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
<\sh> -rw-------  1 siretart revu    1465 2006-06-18 13:16 subtitleeditor_0.8.1-0ubuntu1_i386.changes
<\sh> -rw-------  1 siretart revu  433872 2006-06-18 13:16 subtitleeditor_0.8.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<\sh> that's the problem
<chantra> ?
<\sh> you uploaded a binary package :)
<\sh> not a source package
<Kyral> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot :D
<chantra> well, as I can't get to upload source.changes I gave a try with i386.changes
<\sh> no...source.changes
<\sh> chantra: and use pbuilder :)
<chantra> my problem in the first place (I guess) Is that I can't generate source.changes
<\sh> debuild -S -sa
<\sh> will do what you want
<siretart> uploading binary package is a really bad idea
<\sh> I just removed it from incoming
<chantra> I used dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S -kmykey
<siretart> since it requires manual interaction of a revu admin to get it removed from the queue
<chantra> sorry \sh and siretart :s
<\sh> chantra: if you just need a source package :) use debuild -S -sa
<chantra> okie, k=give it a try
<\sh> (the -k<yourkey> is integrated because it takes your uid from changelog)
<chantra> okie
<\sh> we need a ubuntu motu school revival
<Kyral> hehe soon I'll be upstream for you guys lol
<\sh> _ion: I had a piece of ruby code which should have shown a tftpd server written in ruby..but it was crap...
<_ion> sh: Ugly code can be written in any language. :-)
<\sh> _ion: written by a very cool student...no sysadmin is writing scripts in ruby for daily business
<chantra> \sh: I get the following error:
<\sh> _ion: yes, but not in Ops :)
<chantra>  dpkg-genchanges -S -sa
<chantra> dpkg-genchanges: including full source code in upload
<chantra> dpkg-buildpackage: source only upload (original source is included)
<chantra> dpkg-buildpackage: ../subtitleeditor_0.8.1-0ubuntu1_i386.changes has no architecture field!
<Kyral> Thats what shell scripts are for!!
<chantra> debuild: fatal error at line 768:
<chantra> dpkg-buildpackage failed!
<Kyral> NO PASTE!!
<chantra> woops, sorry
<chantra> not even 5 line :p
<Kyral> sorry reflex response
<\sh> remove _i386.changes
<chantra> :)
<\sh> and everything you don't need
<\sh> cd into the debianized source dir, and debuild -S -sa
<\sh> it will work, if not then there is something else totally wrong
<chantra> \sh: , you rock :)
<\sh> chantra: no...I headbang normally ;)
<chantra> I should have made its way up
<chantra> \sh: :)
<\sh> tiber needs more ram
<chantra> thanks again \sh ... gonna upload a bunch of packages :p
<\sh> chantra: np
<\sh> chantra: thx for your work and contribution
<chantra> a pleasure :)
<\sh> oh wow it rains
<marcin_ant> hi guys
<marcin_ant> I got a question
<\sh> we all have ;)
<\sh> at least one ;)
<marcin_ant> I would like to run and also prepare package with some python based webapp
<marcin_ant> well maybe in fact not webapp - web framework that one can use to write webapp
<marcin_ant> and my question is how to prepare configuration scripts
<marcin_ant> I think that after installation every user should be able to run this framework in his home dir
<marcin_ant> just like with mod_userdir in apache
<marcin_ant> is there any _good_ policy that could tell how to do this?
<\sh> marcin_ant: so he has to install it into his homedir?
<marcin_ant> well no
<\sh> or just a special configuration for apache to activate the framework?
<\sh> you need to package it e.g. like moinmoin
<\sh> and find a way to prepare a working apache2 configuration which works
<marcin_ant> installation should go to /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages
<\sh> yes normal python policy
<marcin_ant> but then I would like to provide configuration for apache
<marcin_ant> so user should have an ability to run this app from his http://localhost/~username
<marcin_ant> without any problems
<\sh> marcin_ant: provide a default configuration for it in /etc/apache2/sites-available
<siretart> wwaargh..
<siretart> anyone experience with cmake?
<\sh> siretart: grmpf...sometime ago...
<siretart> $package requires an out of source build. Please create a separate build directory and run...
<siretart> wtf?!
<marcin_ant> \sh: yes but with sites-available I will provide only systemwide url to this webapp right?
<\sh> mkdir /tmp/buildir ?
<\sh> marcin_ant: if mod_userdir is enabled you need to stick this configuration to it
<marcin_ant> \sh: while it's not 100% webapp - it's framework that allows to write python based webapps
<\sh> siretart: like building the kernel with a separate object dir?
<siretart> \sh: now it complains that it doesn't find CMakeLists.txt
<siretart> \sh: this is boson, a kde based game :/
<\sh> siretart: yes, I know boson ;) I had the pleasure :)
<siretart> why does everyone need to invent his own build system, which ftbfs with funny errors
<\sh> cmake is not stable enough as far as  I read
<\sh> siretart: would be an idea to ask in #kde4-devel
<siretart> \sh: you have? do you happen to have some packages for version 0.12?
<\sh> siretart: no...last time it was b0rked because of old self-shipped kdegames
<\sh> includes
<\sh> siretart: you remember?
<siretart> \sh: I remember there was foo with boson 0.11
<siretart> that version didn't use cmake yet
<\sh> siretart: yes..then I gave up
<siretart> we have a quite usable version of 0.11 now. I'm was looking if I could upgrade it to new upstream
<siretart> but cmake is annoying me..
<\sh> can't you revoke to gnu make?
<siretart> how?
<\sh> siretart: there should be a documentation for that.
<\sh> wait a minute .... phone
<\sh> siretart: wich package are you using? this all in one package?
<zusocfc_> Hi, all
<zusocfc_> BlueT_: !!!
<siretart> \sh: the split one, the code package atm
<zusocfc_> Excuse me.. I've some questions about upload files.
<zusocfc_> siretart: Hi..
<siretart> zusocfc_: hi. (don't ask to ask. just ask)
<BlueT_> zusocfc_: :)
<BlueT_> zusocfc_: first time been here? :)
<zusocfc_> BlueT_: Yeah...
<BlueT_> zusocfc_: :-3
<siretart> which package is supposed to contain KDE3Config.cmake?
<\sh> kdelibs4 ?
<zusocfc_> siretart: in the mail which your reply, you said that I need to upload file right now?
<\sh> from kde4
<\sh> kdelibs4 (aka kde3) is still automake foo
<zusocfc_> BlueT_: could I type in Chinese?
<siretart> \sh: at least something I can handle
<BlueT_> zusocfc_: no. plz use english here :)
<zusocfc_> BlueT_: OK, sry
<\sh> siretart: didn't work the install docu in code/INSTALL?
<\sh> just create an object dir
<_ion> 
<BlueT_> _ion: !!!!
<zusocfc_> _ion: =  ="
<siretart> \sh: it still complains about not finding KDE3Config.cmake
<zusocfc_> BlueT_: it's all my fault XD
<zusocfc_> Orz
<BlueT_> zusocfc_: what fault?
<\sh> siretart: it's not shipped by default kde
<zusocfc_> BlueT_: let ion type in chinese @@
<siretart> \sh: so the source is borked and I cannot build it? wtf?
<siretart> this doesn't make kde nor cmake more pleasant for me :/
<\sh> siretart: yes :)
<siretart> not to speak about boson :/
<\sh> kde is not at fault
<BlueT_> zusocfc_: hahaha, that's not any fault at all :)
<zusocfc_> BlueT_: >///<
<BlueT_> zusocfc_: we have to respect this world wide channel :p
<zusocfc_> BlueT_: :)
<\sh> siretart: the best thing to do is to ask against which version of kde they are compiling...if it's kde4 you are fcked
<siretart> \sh: it is explicitly asking for kde3
<\sh> siretart: hmm...
<\sh> siretart: let's see where this cmake file is
<zusocfc_> BlueT_: sleep, night.
<BlueT_> zusocfc_: nite :)
<Riddell-awa> testers needed on teamspeak
<\sh> siretart: looks like that it comes with a new cmake?
<\sh> Riddell-awa: which server?
<siretart> \sh: define 'new' cmake?
<\sh> siretart: new version of cmake...I don't know which version are you using
<siretart> I'm using 2.23
<\sh> siretart: latest is 2.4.2
<Riddell-awa> \sh: https://dot.kde.org/1150654117/
<Riddell-awa> er, no
<Riddell-awa> teamspeak.uds.canonical.com
<\sh> anonymous login?
<\sh> server password?
<whiprush_> hey this is pretty neat
<ajmitch> morning
<\sh> moins ajmitch
<mvirkkil> evening ajmitch
<mvirkkil> or night, even :)
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-11
<icf7> Is there any way to require "Any JDK which supports >= 1.5" ?
<geser> icf7: you could add all working JDK to the Depends
<icf7> geser: Thats my current solution, but it is certainly not as nice as the gentoo version >=virtual/jdk-1.5 . Thank you anyway
<minghua> icf7: that requires all the JDK package maintainers to agree on the name of the virtual package, then change each JDK package to provide it
<minghua> icf7: in other words, doable, but need quite some effort
<icf7> minghua: Thank you, I'll think about launching such a proposal
<minghua> icf7: actually, there are already a bunch of java-related virtual packages, but I don't know versioned virtual packages work or not (I suspect they don't).
<StevenHarperUK> Hi I need help My source.changes file has an error : I get this when I try to upload to REVU : Unable to find distrorelease: unstable   
<StevenHarperUK> what do I need to change please
<StevenHarperUK> Do I need another line in my debian/control file?
<icf7> StevenHarperUK: You should change that to an Ubuntu version, like "feisty" or "gutsy"
<StevenHarperUK> Think I just found it : its in the chnagelog yeh?
<icf7> StevenHarperUK: exactly
<StevenHarperUK> Thanks
<StevenHarperUK> Ill retry
<StevenHarperUK> Ah : Ok im getting Already uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com Doing nothing for usbadslmodemmanager_0.5.2_source.changes : do I really have to go up a version number - or is there a way or re-submitting
<jussi01> StevenHarperUK: are you uploading to revu?
<StevenHarperUK> Yes
<jussi01> dput -f revu 
<StevenHarperUK> ta
<jussi01> ;)
<mok_> Any MOTUs around?
<mok_> ... or just bots?
<crimsun> please don't ask to ask.  Just ask, then we'll process things when we get around to them.
<StevenHarperUK> OK the upload is working now ...Do I need to get a MOTU to clear my broken one, or will it just work?
<crimsun> StevenHarperUK: your previous upload to the Ubuntu repository has been rejected automatically.
<StevenHarperUK> And will my new one et processed?
<mok_> I need someone to help me look at some packages I uploaded to REVU
<crimsun> StevenHarperUK: if it's valid, yes
<StevenHarperUK> Thanks : ill watch me Email
<StevenHarperUK> ok im back : Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution. : new error...
<StevenHarperUK> I submitted my Key today : I guess a sync hasn't happened yet
<mok_> I think it's synced once a day
<StevenHarperUK> Ok ill re-try tommorow : unless we have a MOTU that can re-sync RevU?
<mok_> StevenHarperUK: I just went through my first upload. Looking for advocates now...
<imbrandon> StevenHarperUK, give it a few minutes, i just kicked off a manual sync
<crimsun> that keyring sync takes about 2 hours
<imbrandon> should be about ~15 minutes to finish ( maybe less )
<imbrandon> crimsun, huh ?
<crimsun> tiber is experiencing network difficulties
<imbrandon> ahh shiznit
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh im on first upload too
<StevenHarperUK> Ta imbrandson
<imbrandon> crimsun, seems to be working fairly quickly , might be a fluke
<imbrandon> or stall in a minute
<crimsun> imbrandon: ok.  Not logged in ATM.
<mok_> StevenHarperUK: What's your package?
<StevenHarperUK> Can you tell when its finished?
<imbrandon> crimsun, its doing about one key per 5 seconds looks like
<StevenHarperUK> usbadslmodemmanager http://www.squeezedonkey.com/wiki/linux
<imbrandon> StevenHarperUK, sure
<StevenHarperUK> mok_ : yours?
<mok_> I packaged kssh, which strangely is missing 
<imbrandon> crimsun, i got my daughter today /me is sooo happy, just took her home
<mok_> ... and some bioinformatics tools
<jmg> imbrandon: congratulations
<StevenHarperUK> Well done : your first?
<imbrandon> me and her mom might be getting back togather
<mok_> Yes
<imbrandon> StevenHarperUK, jmg , she's 10 :)
<crimsun> imbrandon: excellent!  Best of luck there!
<StevenHarperUK> ah right
<StevenHarperUK> My oldest is 10
<mok_> I've been packaging RPMs for years
<imbrandon> RPM and DEB == whole diffrent world :)
<jmg> yeah
<StevenHarperUK> This is first ever Package of ANY kind
<imbrandon> i did suse rpm's for years, took me ages to get used to debs
<jmg> think of deb as rpm minus the suck
<StevenHarperUK> But I have been developing APps for 14 years
<imbrandon> jmg, exactly :) more like dpkg++
<imbrandon> crimsun, thanks :)
<mok_> Not really, but the organization surrounding the packaging is chaotic
<crimsun> mok_: where "packaging"-> RPM or DEB?
<StevenHarperUK> I Agree : if its a C package it well documented
<StevenHarperUK> I resorted to downloading some one elses Source package and having a look about it
<imbrandon> seems the key sync has slowed to a crawl, it might be a bit
<mok_> crimsun: I recently switched to Ubuntu and I am now moving my packages to DEB format
<StevenHarperUK> hehe
<jrib> sorry to interrupt, would anyone like to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5444, a python module?
<mok_> jrib: You have to be a MOTU to review, right?
<crimsun> mok_: ah, so you're saying that the organisation surrounding DEBs is chaotic?
<imbrandon> i'm not really in a good position to revu anything atm sorry, only have my windows boxen here at work
<jmg> jrib: unusual naming scheme, shouldnt it be python-reverend?
<mok_> crimsun: Noooo, the org. around RPMs is chaotic
<crimsun> ah
<crimsun> (I'm inclined to agree, but I'm biased.)
<mok_> crimsun: Redhat only feels responsible for their 2500 packages
<StevenHarperUK> I like DEB org, its just working out what to do in the RULES file if your doing a Python package
<jrib> jmg: the binary package is.  I found that python-paramiko's source was just "paramiko" so I copied that
<jmg> ah
<StevenHarperUK> No-ones written a handy guide
<crimsun> actually I think ScottK has
<StevenHarperUK> A URL would be ace
<ajmitch> morning
<crimsun> he documented his experience working with the Debian Python policy IIRC
<crimsun> morning ajmitch 
<jrib> StevenHarperUK: the cdbs documentation had some examples
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh Debian Python Policy tells you where they want stuff, How do do that with the Rules file is not so clear
<StevenHarperUK> Thats what I use dinteh end
<mok_> StevenHarperUK: check out cdbs
<StevenHarperUK> ***in the End
<StevenHarperUK> I did
<StevenHarperUK> The disttools in Oython is a red herring
<StevenHarperUK> in Python I mean
<mok_> I haven't packaged any python modules yet, but I'm going to...
<StevenHarperUK> I wasted about 14 hours on that
<jmg> StevenHarperUK: ouch
<mok_> But cdbs should work with disttools?
<jrib> mok_: my rules file is like 3 lines with cdbs for that python module
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh but I have spent 3 weeks on my App, so I'm keen to get it done
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh mines about 3 lines :p
<mok_> I guess the problem is if you need to do something extra?
<jrib> I spent some time trying to figure out why .pyc files weren't being created only to find out I wasn't looking in the right place...
<StevenHarperUK> The disttools is great for Pure python packages, mine has Graphics, start menu items etc....
<mok_> Can't you write your rules file in python?
<mok_> ... or is that not allowed?
<StevenHarperUK> Plus i'm new to Python too : I only just started learning for this project
<StevenHarperUK> im a Java & C++ coder really
<StevenHarperUK> That's made it harder
<mok_> Python is great
<StevenHarperUK> Its good for teh Client stuff
<StevenHarperUK> I prefer Java for Server Apps
<crimsun> mok_: well, if you _really_ wanted to, yes.  debian/rules just needs to be executable.
<StevenHarperUK> imbrandon: Hows that Sync coming along?
<mok_> ... it would be possible to write a python environment for building debs that would kick b*tt..
* imbrandon loosk
<imbrandon> StevenHarperUK, looks finished
<jrib> mok_: never tried but http://docs.python.org/dist/built-dist.html
<StevenHarperUK> Oh yes that's what Python and Debian really needs
<StevenHarperUK> Maybe that's my next project :P
<StevenHarperUK> ok : wish me luck
<mok_> StevenHarperUK: I'd help out
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh that's the one that ate 14hours of my life
<mok_> Your first BABY!!!
<mok_> :-)
<StevenHarperUK> ok It's uploaded....
<StevenHarperUK> so mok_ a nice GUI you pick a source folder, it makes teh deb and all the rest?
<StevenHarperUK> the debian folder
<StevenHarperUK> i mean
<StevenHarperUK> Nice GUI to Pick menu items, auto start, init.d scripts : that's whats needed
<mok_>  StevenHarperUK: I wasn't thinking about a GUI. More like a set of classes that you subclass and customize
<StevenHarperUK> So a starting point?
<StevenHarperUK> or helper tool?
<mok_> .... and then object.compile(), obj.install() etc.
<mok_> Yeah, a helper tool
<StevenHarperUK> Still same Error : Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
<mok_> obj = PythonModuleBuilder(); etc
<StevenHarperUK> can Anyone Help?
<jrib> StevenHarperUK: what are you trying to do?
<StevenHarperUK> Submit to REVU
<icf7> Steven
<icf7> StevenHarperUK: Did you forget to configure /etc/dput.conf ?
<mok_> Dont forget to do: dput revu xxxx.source.change
<geser> StevenHarperUK: dput revu your_pkg.changes
<geser> else you are uploading to the Ubuntu archive
<StevenHarperUK> ah
<StevenHarperUK> whoops
<StevenHarperUK> ok
<StevenHarperUK> ta
<mok_> It must be SOURCE.changes
<mok_> otherwise your package gets stuck
<StevenHarperUK> ok sending to revu now :p
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh its source
<mok_> So many things to learn ;-/
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh I have been learning it for about 3-4 weeks now : I Started using Ubuntu at work 1.2 years ago, I decided I better make something
<StevenHarperUK> OK Its finished uploading to REVU....
<mok_> Let's go have a look...
<crimsun> the cronjob is every 5 minutes
<crimsun> if you just uploaded, it won't appear if accepted until after :45
<StevenHarperUK> ah right Ill go n see how the mrs is doing then BRB
<mok_> ... so what is the mean waiting time?
<crimsun> define "waiting time"
<mok_> The mean time people have to wait until the upload is visible. That number is less than 5 minutes
<crimsun> it depends if the upload is accepted
<mok_> duh
<crimsun> Delivery-date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:35:17 -0400
<crimsun> validating usbadslmodemmanager_0.5.2.dsc
<mok_> I see it! Just below my packages ;-)
<mok_> Uhuh, StevenHarper, you have lintian errors
<StevenHarperUK> Woohoo!
<StevenHarperUK> What are them ?  lintian errors
<StevenHarperUK> is there a Cream to sort it?
<mok_> Errr Cream?
<crimsun> yes, the cream is free
<mok_> I got some of those source-contains-CVS---- etc, but they came in the original tarball
<mok_> is that serious?
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh I see them 
<crimsun> morning emmet
<StevenHarperUK> I have SVN ones
<jrib> StevenHarperUK: but you got the source as a tarball?
<persia> hello crimsun
<StevenHarperUK> I thin you can add -I*.svn
<StevenHarperUK> whne you build
<StevenHarperUK> it will leave them out then
<StevenHarperUK> -I*.csv for you
<crimsun> doesn't `export` omit them, or am I confusing both CVS & SVN with bzr?
<jrib> export works for svn
<mok_> I dont think so because it looks at the orig.tar.gz so you have to remove them by hand if it matters
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh but I make my own original
<StevenHarperUK> so I will have to export
<mok_> Ah
<StevenHarperUK> Do you know what the command is?
<StevenHarperUK> svn export?
<jrib> yep
<mok_> Who would have guessed :-)
<StevenHarperUK> usbadslmodemmanager source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 0.5.2
<StevenHarperUK> what should it be
<StevenHarperUK> 0.5.2-1
<StevenHarperUK> ?
<mok_> Good question...
<mok_> Perhaps 0.5
<mok_> Perhaps 0.5-1
<StevenHarperUK> I have a user base of about 100 users so I better keep tje 2
<geser> 0.5.2-0ubuntu1
<jrib> yeah, in the changelog
<bluefoxicy> http://bluefox.kicks-ass.org/
<mok_> I though the ubuntu* tag was only to be used for main etc
<bluefoxicy> This machine is running Apache 1.3 booted from an Ubuntu LiveCD :)
<bluefoxicy> Notice anything?
<bluefoxicy> (scroll down to the bottom, look right)
<jrib> bluefoxicy: it says debian?
<bluefoxicy> :)
<bluefoxicy> Not my doing.
<geser> lintian will still complain about the number. it doesn't know the Ubuntu codenames and the Ubuntu versioning and report them as a bad NMU
<crimsun> geser: no longer.  I sponsored Jordan's upload for that.
<persia> bluefoxicy: If you have a better graphic, file a bug.
<crimsun> in gutsy, that is.
<geser> crimsun: but REVU doesn't use this version yet, does it?
<bluefoxicy> persia:  it's not that.  The whole thing says things like "This computer has installed the Debian GNU/Linux operating system, but it has nothing to do with the Debian Project. Please do not contact the Debian Project about it." and so on.
<crimsun> geser: correct
<bluefoxicy> persia:  I will file a bug though
<persia> bluefoxicy: Right, but changing the text and leaving the graphic would be confusing :)
<StevenHarperUK>  usbadslmodemmanager source: changelog-should-mention-nmu : can anyone help with that one?
<geser> mok_: no, all packages changed (or made) by Ubuntu has -XubuntuY in the version
<jrib> persia:  well do you *need* a graphic really :P
<geser> ignore this one
<mok_> geser: OK, thanks
<mok_> geser: I'll have to change that in mine
<StevenHarperUK>   usbadslmodemmanager source: changelog-should-mention-nmu : anyone know the correct format for the change log?
<StevenHarperUK> It also says that you've specified an unknown `target distribution' for your upload inN:   the debian/changelog file.
<StevenHarperUK> so 2 problems with that file
<StevenHarperUK> any Ideas?
<mok_> target dist: universe?
<geser> you can ignore both, lintian doesn't know the Ubuntu specifics
<mok_> Perhaps there should be an "ubuntian"
<geser> there is already one in gutsy, but not on REVU
<mok_> Really? It was a joke :-)
<StevenHarperUK> Great to I can Ignore them
<geser> mok_: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/2007-June/002804.html
<geser> StevenHarperUK: the one you should fix is about the svn dir
<jrib> how come StevenHarperUK ended up with a file called "*.diff"?
<StevenHarperUK> Dunno
<mok_> I got some of those too...
<StevenHarperUK> Yes I do
<geser> it's normal
<StevenHarperUK> ok ill do that now
<jrib> weird mine ends up as reverend_0.3.svn20070609-0ubuntu1.diff    
<jrib> maybe it's because of the version number complaint
<geser> what StevenHarperUK has is called a native package, which should only by used for software which is only useful on Debian or Ubuntu
<mok_> Btw, I am thinking of filing a bug report on dh-make: it should put ubuntu-motu etc in the Maintainer field, and then create a XSCB-Original-Maintainer for the packager
<geser> the other packages (non-native) have a orig.tar.gz and a diff.gz
<jrib> geser: oh I see
<crimsun> mok_: careful, XSCB-Original-Maintainer is relevant for Debian.  We shouldn't assume the person is or isn't pulling source from Debian.
<mok_> OK, so no packager name in the control file?
<crimsun> Packager?  No.  Maintainer?  Sure, it can default to MOTU.
<Amaranth> jrib: packing the reverend python bayesian classifier?
<Amaranth> err, packaging
<jrib> Amaranth: uh oh, you're going to tell me it's packaged aren't you (yes)
<Amaranth> no
* persia thought current recommendation was to use XSBC-Original-Maintainer for all non-@ubuntu maintainers, regardless of priginal source repository.
<Amaranth> that was before the error got turned into a warning
* mok_ thinks he read that too
<crimsun> no, I see.
<crimsun> The spec makes it applicable to all source packages.
<crimsun> "we will do as follows for all Ubuntu binary packages, and Ubuntu source packages which are modified relative to Debian"
<StevenHarperUK> OK I sent a clean one up :p
<Amaranth> jrib: the bayesian classifier in willowng was based on code from reverend
<jrib> Amaranth: ah
<crimsun> however, it does state "Ubuntu source packages which are modified relative to Debian"
<StevenHarperUK> Im so pleased that I have got this far
<StevenHarperUK> I was close to giving up
<crimsun> and not "all Ubuntu source packages"
<mok_> congrats
<persia> Hmmm.  I wonder if "modified relevant to Debian" covers the case where the modification is limited to "inclusion in the distribution".
<mok_> StevenHarper: so now what? We'll just have to bug the MOTUs to advocate our packages :-)
<mok_> persia: That's how I interpreted the spec
<mok_> The point is that the Debian developers are fed up with getting bug reports from Ubuntu users
<mok_> so anything that is modfied by Ubuntians should NOT have the Debian developers name in the Maintainer field
<crimsun> mok_: there's no question WRT source packages originating in (synced from) Debian.
<mok_> crimsun: Right
<StevenHarperUK> OK im all done now!
<StevenHarperUK> yeha
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh bugging the MOTU's is my new hobby
<crimsun> the ambiguity - rather, lack of coverage - is for source packages not in Debian.  It's clear that Maintainer should be set.  Should XSBC-Original-Maintainer be set, too?
<mok_> What does SBC stand for?
<crimsun> covered in Policy
<StevenHarperUK> Thanks a Lot everyone who helped me
* persia thinks that XSBC-Original-Maintainer should be set whenever Maintainer is a mailing list, to provide appropriate credit to the packager.
<StevenHarperUK> Good night im off for R & R
<mok_> persia: sounds reasonable!
<mok_> As long as the maintainer is not a MOTU, it makes sense to have the MOTU list in the Maintainer: field.
<crimsun> mok_: section 5.7 of Policy
<mok_> ... and the the orig. packager should be in the XSBC--- field
<crimsun> persia: raise it on -devel-discuss, methinks
<persia> mok_: Rather, as long as the Maintainer does not have an @ubuntu.com email address, it makes sense to use one of the default development lists as the maintainer.
<mok_> OK
<jrib> hmm, guess I should my package then
<persia> crimsun: I'll add that to my list :)  I think you're right, and I think the spec is ambigous.
<mok_> ... and dh_make should be fixed...
<crimsun> well, you can file that bug
<mok_> Will do
<mok_> Can you tell me what debdiffs are for?
<mok_> I see people use them when fixing their packages
<crimsun> unified diffs between source package revisions
<mok_> So, when I fix my packages uploaded to REVU, I make a debdiff between the old and new versions and upload that?
<crimsun> I don't recommend using debdiffs for old & new upstream versions
<crimsun> e.g., 1.2.3 and 1.2.4 is better poised as a complete source package of 1.2.4
<icf7> Is there any way to install executable files with dh_install or do I have to manually install them?
<persia> mok_: Rather, when submitting new revisions to packages already in the archive.  See "Preparing New Revisions" in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<mok_> I am thinking of packages that have been modified according to the recommenations of the advocates
<mok_> icf7: put the names of the executables in the _package.install file
<icf7> mok_: I did, but they get installed with -x
<mok_> icf7: are they scripts?
<icf7> mok_: Yes
<mok_> with a shebang character in the first line?
<mok_> and: are the scripts executable in the orig. source?
<icf7> mok_: Yes, and no, they are from debian/
<mok_> It still should work...
<icf7> mok_: Oops, sorry - I did something wrong. Upon retrying, everything works fine. Sorry.
<mok_> Hehe
<mok_> I struggled with the debhelper progs
<mok_> the man pages are wrong
<icf7> mok_: Well, I think it's confusing hello does not use them? Hello ;) ? hello is the example package!
<mok_> debhelper stinks
<mok_> You can take a look at cdbs but it's more of a black box
<Amaranth> got another op around in case i screw up this test? :)
<mok_> Works great for standard stuff
<Amaranth> err, wrong channel
<mok_> I'd like a python environment to do the building
<mok_> We talked about that before you came
<icf7> Found it, forget the correct directory and chmod does not raise a crash - wtf?
<mok_> The last sentence is incomprehensible
<AndyP> persia: just got back... seems that lionel already saw to my nufw merge upload but out of curiosity, what were your questions about the changelog?
<persia> AndyP: Just personal preferences about the format of debian/changelog when adding new changes to a package at the same time a merge or fakesync is being processed.  No worries.
<AndyP> persia: okie dokie, but if there's something i should learn, please teach :)
<persia> AndyP: http://pastebin.ca/557525
<icf7> mok_: Sorry, I'm tired, 2:44am here. I had written "chmod a+x file" instead of "chmod a+x debian/file", and there was no fatal error despit "file" not being in cwd
<AndyP> persia: ahh yes, that makes sense, thanks
<icf7> mok_: Thanks for your help
<mok_> icf7: Glad to help, I'm a newbie too :-)
* persia seeks someone with the requisite authority to approve or reject nominations in the U-U-S queue.
<Fujitsu> persia: Which bug?
<persia> Fujitsu: 57951, 88617, 82343
<Fujitsu> bugs 57951, 88617, 82343
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 57951 in xchat "[SRU]  xchat crashes frequently on quit" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57951
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 88617 in duplicity "incremental backup does not work" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88617
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 82343 in cryptsetup "init.d/cryptdisks doesnt create symlinks in /dev/disk/by-*" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82343
<Fujitsu> persia: There's a method to work around that restriction. Stick /releasename after /ubuntu, and click 'Also needs fixing here'
<Fujitsu> It seems to work.
<persia> Fujitsu: Cool.  Thanks.
<Fujitsu> No problem, happy SRUing :P
<persia> Fujitsu: I'm just triaging for now :)
* persia celebrates a single-digit U-U-S queue
<Fujitsu> Really!?
* Fujitsu checks.
<persia> Fujitsu: Well, not any more.  Nominations bloat it :)
<Fujitsu> True. How unfortunate. Everyone should just use ultra-stable Gutsy.
<persia> heh
<AndyP> single digit eh?
* AndyP looks for some more merges to do
<persia> AndyP: If you can't find a good one, consider hunting patches and getting them applied.
<AndyP> persia: where should i start?
<AndyP> ah, the "show only bugs with patches available" tick box :)
<persia> AndyP: Two good places are https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=patch and that tick box.  Once you find a package that needs work, look at "Preparing New Revisions" in MOTU/Contributing for more places to find patches.  It's best to fix as many bugs as possible with each upload.
* AndyP commences the hunt
<persia> Is there a document somewhere that provides guidelines on including new software from contrib into multiverse?
<Burgundavia> persia: it is just a sync request
<persia> Burgundavia: Yes, but as this doesn't happen automatically, I'm guessing that Ubuntu doesn't want everything Debian has in contrib and non-free (I just don't understand when things are included).
<crimsun> persia: you just need to request it & sub u-a as per usual.  Just remember to state clearly that its origin is in contrib/non-free, since it's a different sync rune according to Colin.
<Amaranth> persia: someone files a request, someone checks it over
<crimsun> Though the last time I asked was over eighteen months ago
<persia> crimsun: Amaranth: Thanks.  As above, I was seeking policy.  In the absence thereof, I'll approve any requests for syncs from contrib/non-free that are passed to me.
<persia> (assuming 1) it builds locally, 2) it works locally, 3) it doesn't replace something else in Ubuntu, and 4) it doesn't seem completely unreasonable).
<Amaranth> who thought it would be a good idea for a usb plug to fit into an ethernet port?
<Amaranth> i wonder if they ever thought of that when designing usb
<persia> Amaranth: It's really a good thing for case designers, etc.
<Amaranth> but bad for me
<Amaranth> i almost always plug my mouse into my ethernet port, move it around, notice it doesn't work, and then plug it into the right place
<Amaranth> i suppose the real answer is to not have them on the same side
<Amaranth> persia: i think multiverse's only rule is 'legal to redistribute'
<persia> Amaranth: Doesn't Debian enforce that for contrib and non-free?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> so.... :)
<Amaranth> arg
<Amaranth> can someone give me the link to the queue in launchpad?
<Amaranth> that has to be the hardest thing to find, i swear you just have to know the URL to know it exists
<jmg> http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=https%3A%2F%2Flaunchpad.net%2Fqprocd&ei=qrFsRsLKGJm-hAPj9MTeAg&usg=AFQjCNHH-38-OaxIhuBDJWAYRQYnQFSbtw&sig2=XY-1n5lFhrcRRicPD9GcYQ
<jmg> https://launchpad.net/qprocd
<jmg> ?
<crimsun> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/$release/+queue
<crimsun> and yes, it's so difficult to locate that I just memorised it releases ago
<jmg> the "Show uploads" button goes to the queue
<crimsun> which is mildly more sane than one of the previous links, which simply was Build Queue
<jmg> perhaps it should be renamed to "Show queue" or "Show uploads queue"
<Amaranth> hrm, it seems mvo never uploaded compiz-compcomm-plugins-main
<Amaranth> but bcop is in the new queue, maybe he is waiting for it to clear since it's a build dep
<Amaranth> browsing in launchpad i did manage to find the actual build queue for each arch
<Amaranth> but not the new/ftbfs/etc stuff
<chillywilly> I installed ubuntu-xen-server and then udevd started hoggin the CPU and spitting out something like: device-mapper: ioctl: error adding target to 
<chillywilly> table
<chillywilly> over and over again
<chillywilly> so I stopped it and now all seems well
<crimsun> ok, morning queue: u-u-s, then alsa*.
<persia> As part of the investigation for initiating wider discussion of the DebianMaintainerField guidelines, I've identified 312 binary packages and 889 source packages in Universe that do not currently comply with the spec.  Are these likely to be bugs?
<crimsun> can you summarise how they're non-compliant?
<superm1> jamyskis, ping
<persia> crimsun: I've yet to investigate the special cases, but the numbers come from ` wget -O - http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz | gunzip | grep-dctrl -sSource:Package,Package,Maintainer -FVersion ubuntu  | grep-dctrl -sSource:Package -FMaintainer -v -n ubuntu | sort -u  | wc -l` and ` wget -O - http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/universe/source/Sources.gz| gunzip | grep-dctrl -sPackage,Maintaine
<crimsun> persia: hmm, not gutsy?
<persia> crimsun: Right.  Thanks.
* StevenK appears.
<persia> Gusty is 624 binaries and 248 sources.
<persia> Um.  Rather 624 sources and 248 binaries
<StevenK> persia: Has no one taught you about $()? :-P
<persia> StevenK: How would you use it in this case?  I've only used ` above to indicate that I'm quoting a shell fragment.
<StevenK> persia: I thought you were pulling from a script that used a subshell, which is what `` and $() both do. The difference is $() can be nested, and `` can't.
<persia> StevenK: Not in this case :)
<_Enchained> Hi all
<StevenK> persia: Then I sit corrected. :-)
* persia still likes backticks for simple things - fewer keystrokes
<_Enchained> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5461 updated
<_Enchained> If anyone have a little time
<StevenK> Hrm. /me wonders who to talk to about a bunch of packages that haven't registered builds yet.
<StevenK> persia: I've pretty much stopped using ` altogether for shell - Perl still keeps the habit alive, damn it's black heart.
<persia> So, getting back to my original question: is it considered an upload-worthy bug if a package doesn't meet the tests listed in DebianMaintainerField spec, and is not an Ubuntu-only package?
<StevenK> persia: And has an Ubuntu delta?
<persia> StevenK: At least has an -XubuntuY version number.  I'm only going to investigate deltas if it needs to be fixed :)
<coNP> Hi, lionel, I am a kind of a newbie, you seem to have uploaded the package I provided via a debdiff (ruby-gnome2). Shouldn't we mark this 'fix released' now?
<crimsun> not yet.
<crimsun> it hasn't appeared as built via LP
<crimsun> I believe it's one of the uploads that hasn't registered a build
<crimsun> (possible soyuz bug)
<crimsun> ('lo Hobbsee)
<coNP> What does this exactly mean? Packages get uploaded and never built (automagically)?
<lionel> They should be build automagically
<lionel> but during the week-end, lot of uploads does not have any build registered (that's what LP told)
<crimsun> we're discussing it in -devel; will need to be patient until cprov appears and has had sustenance
<crimsun> ;)
<lionel> :)
<coNP> thanks you both, I am just interested what happens to my little debdiffs :D
<crimsun> coNP: thanks for your work on them :)
<coNP> It was quite easy to fix the bugs except that I had to become familiar with both dpatch and quilt :)
<crimsun> both excellent utilities.
<ranf> hi
<jussi01> hi
<dholbach> good morning
<jussi01> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hiya jussi01
* jussi01 just discovered ubuntustats :D
<jamyskis> superm1: good morning :)
<jamyskis> good morning persia
* persia is currently hiding from dholbach.  Sssh!
<dholbach> persia: :-))))
* dholbach hugs persia
<jamyskis> persia, superm1: i just wanted to say thanks for all your help, though i've decided to hand over the reins for packaging my stuff to anyone else who is willing and able, as i simply do not have the time to learn the extreme amount of stuff needed for packaging for the ubuntu repos
<persia> As a last note about DebianMaintainerField, for those who might have been interested, of the 624 affected sources in universe, only 458 are clearly based on Debian (of which there are 609 in all of main, restricted, universe, and multiverse).  The others may be new.  I'll wait for response to my mail prior to fixing these.
<StevenK> persia: To -motu?
<persia> StevenK: to -devel-discuss, as advised earlier.
<persia> (earlier, in this case, being about 7 hours ago)
* Fujitsu thinks that should have probably gone to -devel.
<persia> Fujitsu: That makes sense to me, but I tend to follow previous advice unless I have an agenda regarding the advice.  I don't think it's worth resending, do you?
<Fujitsu> Probably not once it's sent, no.
* persia will request feedback for things in -devel in the future.
<Fujitsu> But the people who are likely to want to read it are on -devel.
<Fujitsu> IMO, only Debian-derived packages should be mangled, and it should be easy to opt-out
<persia> Fujitsu: Please reply with that.  That's exactly the sort of feeback I'm hoping for, and I'd ilke to see discussion on the list to build a consensus.
<crimsun> I advised -devel-discuss because there's an off-chance that upstream maintainers may be subscribed to it
<crimsun> their input as the original maintainers is valuable, too
<Fujitsu> That it is.
<Fujitsu> But some of the people who count are probably not on -devel-discuss. This is why the lists shouldn't have been split.
<persia> That's an old discussion.  It's hard to fix now.  There's good arguments in both directions.  Perhaps items of interest to both should be cross-posted for now.
* StevenK ought to be subscribed to -devel-discuss.
<Fujitsu> I don't read it normally, but I'm subscribed.
* StevenK reads every list he is subscribed to.
<StevenK> So I tend to think carefully before doing so.
<persia> StevenK: Despite previous issues, the volume isn't very high right now.  Better documentation has helped a lot.
<StevenK> How much mail per week or so?
<persia> StevenK: I'd guess about 15 or so, but I don't count mail that way.  You may get a better idead from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/
<persia> s/d fr/ fr/
<man-di> doko: are you in EDI already?
<doko> man-di: no
<doko> next Monday afternoon
<man-di> doko: ah
<man-di> doko: I'm currently building a package for icedtea
<Fujitsu> persia: I've replied, but it has been moderated.
<crimsun> coNP: are you working on 119796?  I'm working through the source ATM.
<man-di> doko: $ bin/java -version
<man-di> openjdk version "1.7.0-internal"
<man-di> OpenJDK Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0-internal-mkoch_11_jun_2007_06_25-b00)
<man-di> OpenJDK Client VM (build 1.7.0-internal-mkoch_11_jun_2007_06_25-b00, mixed mode)
<coNP> bug 119796
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119796 in openbox "Please include Openbox 3.4.2 in Ubuntu" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119796
<doko> man-di: ohh, cool!
<coNP> crimsun: actually mithrandir said it might get into Debian then we can sync
<crimsun> coNP: ok.  I've already updated the Debian bug tracking on the bug, so we'll wait.
<coNP> crimsun: but if it is not the way I am up to create a package upgrade (something I did not make yet but want to start soon :))
<man-di> doko: but currently only with SUN JDK 6, with gcj I get compile time errors about too old jvmti headers or so
<doko> man-di: and building it with itself?
<crimsun> coNP: it's fairly straightforward; the patch to openbox/client.c can be dropped
<man-di> doko: you need a bootstrap jvm
<coNP> crimsun: actually there *is* already a package on their website
<man-di> doko: but I have to say I dont tried make bootstrap yet
<crimsun> coNP: yes, but they didn't post the source package
<man-di> doko: I will try
<coNP> crimsun: I am just not sure how long it is worth waiting for debian (not that I would be so impatient just to see how things are meant to go)
<doko> man-di: well, yes, but at least for those architectures with an existing jdk6, we can do the initial bootstrap with the jdk6, and then build it with itself
<crimsun> coNP: since 3.4.2 was just released yesterday, I'd give Mithrandir at least two weeks.  I'm sure he's quite busy with Canonical->Ubuntu things.
<coNP> crimsun: okay, thanks
<crimsun> coNP: in the meantime, feel free to prepare a source package on REVU.  I recommend also looking through Debian BTS/openbox and updating status as appropriate.
<coNP> thanks, crimsun 
<crimsun> np
<siretart> StevenK: regarding REVU2 better done in rails. I haven't touched ruby at all yet, but I've been looking at python django, and have been considering writing revu2 with that framework
<StevenK> siretart: Ah. Rails is fun. :-)
<siretart> sure. I however prefer python
<lionel> django is fun ;)
<mok0> a
<mok0> ls
<Fujitsu> I agree.
<geser> Fujitsu: Hi, are you working on bug #115935?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115935 in qgis ".so links in non-dev package" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115935
<Fujitsu> geser: Not actively at the moment.
<geser> I have a debdiff for it ready.
<Fujitsu> geser: Oh, right, I remember now. I was trying to fix it but it FTBFSed due to some qt4 thing.
<Fujitsu> Upload it if you wish.
<geser> ok
<geser> I had to patch configure to accept qt 4.3 to get it build
<Fujitsu> That'd do it. I didn't have the time at that point to look into that at all.
<xxxxx1> good morning people!
<pygi> ajmitch, around?
<pygi> meh, ignore
<zul> he's gone to bed
<pygi> zul, yup, doesn't matter anyway :)
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<Hobbsee> hi DarkSun88 
<DarkSun88> Hi Sara
* Hobbsee beats DarkSun88 with a big stick.
* Hobbsee is *not* Sara.
<zul> violence will never get you anywhere
<DarkSun88> Sarah*, sorry. :)
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<Hobbsee> zul: violence solves any problem, if applied well enough
<Hobbsee> DarkSun88: hiya :)
<mok0> How can I disable join and leave info messages in irssi?
<Hobbsee> mok0: ask in #ubuntu
<mok0> ok
<Hobbsee> mok0: bug /set ignore JOIN PART QUIT i believe
<Hobbsee> or something like that
<Hobbsee> s/bug/but/
<mok0> Hobsee: I'll try it, thanks!
<mok0> It's /set activity_hide_level = JOINS QUITS PARTS
<mok0> Ah, nice!
<mok0> Hmmm
<mok0> doesn't work...
<Hobbsee> mok0: you do actually want /ignore JOINS QUITS PARTS or /set ignore JOINS QUITS PARTS - the activity hide level refers to something else, iirc.
<freeflying_> anyone has a amd64 box
<persia> freeflying_: What do you need tested?
<freeflying_> persia: a package only has rpath issue on amd64
<freeflying_> persia: would you  like test it for me
<persia> freeflying_: Which package?
<freeflying_> persia: eva 
* persia downloads
<freeflying_> persia: if you have time, I may mail you a latest package, with relibtoolize patch
<mok0> Hobsee: you are right
<persia> freeflying_: I've a list of things to be doing, but I'll be around for a couple hours, and could test a patch.  If you have a handy testcase, that'd be nice too :)
<freeflying_> persia:  :)
<persia> freeflying_: Um..  What sort of issue are you seeing?  I'm not seeing and hardcoded paths in eva (with objdump), and don't see a bug.
<persia> s/and/any/1
<freeflying_> persia: lintian warning
<persia> freeflying_: Ah.  That'll be easier then :
<freeflying_> persia: because of rpath issue, and rejected by debian ftp-master
<persia> )
<mok0> I have a bunch of packages in REVU, does someone have time to take a look?
<bluekuja> mok0, provide links
<mok0> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5455
<mok0> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5456
<mok0> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5457
<mok0> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5458
<mok0> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5459
<mok0> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5460
<mok0> :-)
<bluekuja> :D
<persia> mok0: I recommend submitting one package for review at a time.  Frequently, there are common issues to address, and you'll have an easier time concentrating on your feedback.
<persia> (Not one upload to REVU, but one annoucement at a time :))
<mok0> Sounds like a good idea
<mok0> Some of them have no lintian errors 
<mok0> so I can't get further on my own
<persia> mok0: For which package do you most with review?
<persia> s/with/wish/
<mok0> Let's start with 5459, that's a multipackage one with xinit scripts etc
<mok0> s/xinit/xinetd/
<persia> mok0: Is this intended for Ubuntu or for Debian?
<mok0> Well, both, ideally
<persia> mok0: Rather, this specific upload.
<mok0> Ubuntu
<mok0> Isn't it easier to get it accepted into Debian if it is in Ubuntu? I read something about contacting the Utnubu group later.
<persia> mok0: OK.  You'll at least want to change the version number (-0ubuntu1) and other Ubuntuisations (most of which cause lintian warnings :)
<mok0> OK
<mok0> I already know about the Maintainer: field
<mok0> I filed a bug against dh_make this morning
<mok0> So, when I fix the package, how do I upload it revu? Will revu let me overwrite the older debs, do I bump the release, or what??
<Hobbsee> it'll automatically overwrite them
<Hobbsee> dont bump the release
<persia> mok0: Just out of curiosity, does this work with LVS as well?
<mok0> The release is 1 now, can I change it to 0ubuntu1 ?
<persia> mok0: Rather, unbump the release :)
<mok0> Hehe ok
<mok0> Shall I try it now?
<mok0> What about changelog? What do I do there?
<persia> mok0: Wait a bit, and I'll post a comment.  Ask me then :)
<persia> freeflying_: I've just completed a local sbuild, and i cannot find anything obvious in the build log to explain it.  I'm looking forward to your patch.  Separately, I'd split the pacakge into eva + eva-data.  Lastly, am I correct that while libeva is built, it's statically linked into eva, and not distributed?
<freeflying_> persia: ya, and without eva, those data is useless
<freeflying_> persia: so I haven't split them 
<persia> freeflying_: I'll look at the patch, but I'm thinking that the static linking of libeva might be part of why it's happening.
<freeflying_> persia: maybe
<persia> freeflying_: Yep.  Maybe :)
<mok0> A static library is just an ar archive of .o files so I doubt that explains anything
<freeflying_> persia: I'd mail you tomorrow
<persia> freeflying_: OK.  I'll look for it.
<persia> mok0: I've commented with a few items.  Was there anything specific with which you needed help?
<mok0> I'll take a look at your comments
<dholbach> what happened to REVU days?
<mok0> What section would you propose for cluster monitoring?
<mok0> Otherwise there are lots of things to get to work on... :-)
<dholbach> mok0: 'admin'?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: it exists.  it's dying a bit at the moment
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach 
<mok0> There is nothing called "cluster"? 
<mok0> That would in fact be useful
<persia> mok0: I'd use "utils" for a monitoring utility, but it's a matter of taste.  "admin" is also good.
<StevenK> I seriously doubt there are enough tools to justify a cluster section.
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee back
<Hobbsee> :)
<mok0> Yes but they are difficult to locate
<xxxxx1> hello dholbach 
<mok0> cluster utils I mean
<dholbach> hiya xxxxx1
<mok0> persia: tmp.sh and xxxxx are just crud files left from my poking around
<mok0> xxxxx is a tmp file generated by rules
<persia> mok0: It's a good practice to review your diff.gz to make sure you don't touch anything outside debian/ before uploading.  Also, remember to delete any tmp files in your clean: rule.
<mok0> I'll remember that.
<Gekitsuu> Is there a way to do a reinstall on a running system via apt?
<mok0> Is it ok to use /tmp in rules
<StevenK> Gekitsuu: apt-get --reinstall install <package> for a single package. For multiple packages, stronger magic is required. To simulate a complete re-install, no, I don't think so.
<Gekitsuu> even if you did a --reinstall of ubuntu-desktop?
<persia> mok0: It's best to avoid that.  Just put temporary files somewhere in the build tree, and delete them in clean:
<Gekitsuu> really the filesystem is ok I just have some package problems
<leonel> hello !
<StevenK> Gekitsuu: If you did a --reinstall of ubuntu-desktop, it would only reinstall it, not everything it Depends on.
<Gekitsuu> ahhh ok, thank you :)
* persia has finished reading the wiki.  For extra points, someone else is encouraged to look at the ~3500 redirects, and figure out how to delete them when the target no longer exists.
<Hobbsee> persia: ....the entire wiki?
<persia> Hobbsee: Yep.
<Hobbsee> but that's.....huge.
<persia> Only wiki.ubuntu.com.  I didn't get to the community sections, nor help.  It's only about 15,00 pages, of which only about 10,000 have real content.
<Hobbsee> ahh
* persia owns novels with more pages
<zul> you have too much time on your hands
<persia> zul: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/WikiCleanUp
<zul> ah but still ;)
* RainCT agrees with zul lol
* persia has *lots* of links handy :)
<Hobbsee> persia: wants to make the entire wiki a lot better, so it'd be a help
<persia> zul: In case you hadn't noticed, w.u.c is completely unmanageable.  As I noted before, about 25% is redirects, for which many the target no longer exists.  It really needs some help.
<persia> s/which many/many of which/
* persia recommends starting from the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PageSize to find good targets for deletion.
<tobiasschulz> hi
<tobiasschulz> are some motu admins in this channel?
<persia> tobiasschulz: You'll get a better response by asking your question directly, rather than seeking someone first.
<geser> Hobbsee: as you can upload to main, could you please upload the debdiff from bug #119873 for me?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119873 in gnupg2 "[gutsy]  Rebuild with libcurl4-gnutls" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119873
<Hobbsee> geser: er, why does it need a rebuild?
<Hobbsee> libcurl transition or something?
<geser> yes
<tobiasschulz> i want to upload a new package to universe for gutsy (with revu). in the ubuntu wiki ist says "Next, ask the REVU admins in #ubuntu-motu or at  keyring@tiber.tauware.de to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring, which grants you upload rights to REVU"
<Hobbsee> geser: cool, uploaded
<geser> Hobbsee: thanks
<Hobbsee> tobiasschulz: it'll be abotu ~10 mins.  will tell you when it's done
<gnomefreak> tobiasschulz: you should just beablet o dput revu name.changes
<_Enchained> hey Hobbsee 
<tobiasschulz> ok
<Hobbsee> hi _Enchained.  congratulations :)
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: i never had to have it re-synced :(
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: not without a keyring resync, depending on when he joined.
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: it only resyncs daily, iirc.
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure
<gnomefreak> oh ok
<Hobbsee> i could probably find out, come to think of it
<tobiasschulz> i joined yesterday with lanchped
<statik> hi! I've written my first package, and would like to upload to revu. I attempted on Sunday, but had some things marked wrong in my package. Can an admin delete my old python-coverage_2.6.orig.tar.gz so I can try uploading a correct one?
<persia> gnomefreak: Was there maybe a few hour gap between when you joined C-U-U, and you first uploaded?  Perhaps someone else requested the sync, or the daily sync happened.
<gnomefreak> couple of days
<_Enchained> Hobbsee :) You seen the update for nautilus-wallpaper ?
<persia> gnomefreak: That'd do it.
<gnomefreak> maybe thats why
<gnomefreak> ah ok ty
<Hobbsee> _Enchained: i think i commented once on it
<Hobbsee> statik: just upload another one
<Hobbsee> statik: it'll overwrite
<statik> Hobbsee: I get this "Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of python-coverage_2.6.orig.tar.gz
<statik> Note: This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server.
<statik> "
<persia> Hobbsee: Last night, half the package was in rejected, and the other half still in incoming.
<Hobbsee> statik: ah right.  fixed.
<Hobbsee> persia: true that, i spoke to pitti
<_Enchained> Hobbsee http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5461 uf you have a little time
<Hobbsee> persia: er, incoming?
<statik> Hobbsee: awesome, thanks!
<_Enchained> if*
<Hobbsee> persia: i uploaded that to ubuntu.  although there is a version on revu in incoming
<persia> Hobbsee: statik's REVU package - you've already fixed it.
<Hobbsee> (where can you guys see the incoming queue?)
<Hobbsee> ah right
<Hobbsee> yes
<persia> Hobbsee: I'm guessing you were referring to b5i2iso?  If not, I'm confused.
<Hobbsee> persia: @ speaking to pitti?  yes.
<persia> Right.  Thanks.  Context restored.
<Hobbsee> :)
<mok0> how can I prevent an upgrade of a package from overwriting config files?
<Hobbsee> darn this "talking on multiple packages at once"
<Hobbsee> mok0: dpkg will throw an error, and wont automatically let you.
<mok0> It did
<persia> mok0: If the config file is a conffile, report a bug.  If not, you can't (except by not upgrading).
<mok0> It is in my own package :-)
<Hobbsee> mok0: oh...er, remove it from the install file, usually
<Hobbsee> depends what ti is
<persia> mok0: In that case, register the config file as a conffile (see policy about conffiles)
<mok0> I'd like it to keep the old config file around if it's been modified, else install the default one
<mok0> conffiles, got it!
<mok0> Should the conffile be both in .install and .conffiles?
<tobiasschulz> i am uploading my first revu package now.(that program: http://jeliza.sourceforge.net/cms/index.php?page=home). how can i get my package advocated by some motus?
<pochu> tobiasschulz: post here the revu link.
<tobiasschulz> revu loink?
<tobiasschulz> i am uploading it, its not jet finished (in 5 minutes i think). what is a revu link?
<Nafallo> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<tobiasschulz> i know
<tobiasschulz> but what link?
<RainCT> tobiasschulz: there url from where that what you are uploading can be downloaded and commented, or? :P
<tobiasschulz> rainct: yes. but i am using dput to upload, so how do i get a link to the uploaded package?
<Nafallo> tobiasschulz: http
<tobiasschulz> ...
<tobiasschulz> Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.tauware.de):
<tobiasschulz>   jeliza_2.2.99.2-1.dsc: done.
<tobiasschulz>   jeliza_2.2.99.2-1.tar.gz: done.
<tobiasschulz>   jeliza_2.2.99.2-1_i386.deb:
<tobiasschulz> (not yet finished)
<RainCT> tobiasschulz: search it on http://revu.tauware.de/ once it's uploaded
<tobiasschulz> ok
<RainCT> tobiasschulz: (perhaps there's a better way but I never worked with REVU so I don't really know)
<mok0> what debhelper script handles package.manpages?
<xxxxx1> mok0: dh_installmanpages
<mok0> thx
<mok0> Isn't dh_installmanpages deprecated?
<xxxxx1> oops
<xxxxx1> dh_installman
<xxxxx1> sorry
<xxxxx1> :>
<mok0> :-)
<Hobbsee> RainCT: that's hte best way
<RainCT> Hobbsee: thanks
<RainCT> Do you know of any easy package I could try to package (once I finish some PHP stuff in a few minutes..)?
<tobiasschulz> ive finished uploading my revu package, but i cant see it at http://revu.tauware.de/ !?
<xxxxx1> tobiasschulz: processing of uploads is done every 5 min.
<nixternal> does anyone here respect what ASP.NET does? I have an ASP.NET class and it is horrid...dragging and dropping websites is so 1998
<mok0> persia: you suggest that I depend on inet-superserver instead of xinetd, but isn't that a virtual package?
<mok0> -- perhaps persia's gone?
<tobiasschulz> mh. i ried to recover my password for revu as described in the ubuntu wiki. but when i cliked on "recover" on http://revu.tauware.de/index.py after logging in with no password and after executing the gpg shell commands, gpg prints only "None":
<tobiasschulz> gpg: verschlsselt mit 2048-Bit ELG-E Schlssel, ID 6AC5ADD3, erzeugt 2007-06-10
<tobiasschulz>       "Tobias Schulz <tobischulz@arcor.de>"
<tobiasschulz> None
<tobiasschulz> any ideas?
<siretart> tobiasschulz: did you already upload a package? does it appear on revu?
<tobiasschulz> yes, i used dput. bur it does not appear (after 15 min now):
<tobiasschulz> Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.tauware.de):
<tobiasschulz>   jeliza_2.2.99.2-1.dsc: done.
<tobiasschulz>   jeliza_2.2.99.2-1.tar.gz: done.
<tobiasschulz>   jeliza_2.2.99.2-1_i386.deb: done.
<tobiasschulz>   jeliza_2.2.99.2-1_i386.changes: done.
<tobiasschulz> Successfully uploaded packages.
<tobiasschulz> Not running dinstall.
<mok0> tobiasschulz: it's not gonna work
<mok0> you have to upload a SOURCE.changes file!
<tobiasschulz> what?
<tobiasschulz> i have
<Hobbsee> that's the i386 changes file
<mok0> debuild -S
<tobiasschulz> ive executed
<tobiasschulz> dput jeliza_2.2.99.2-1_i386.changes
<Hobbsee> nevertheless, there is a source there
<Hobbsee> use debuild -S -sa to build it, and it'll autogenerate the right changes file
<mok0> Yes, but it doesn't work
<tobiasschulz> ok
<mok0> ... and you need to run dcut to remove the old crud :-)
<mok0> from revu that is
<tobiasschulz> can you explain how i use dcut? or where can i read that?
<mok0> Actually, I am going to file a bug towards dput complaining about this.
<mok0> s/complaining/NOT complaining/
<Hobbsee> mok0: dcut doesnt work
<Hobbsee> on revu
* Hobbsee will fix it
<Hobbsee> mok0: how's that a dput bug, sorry?
<mok0> It doesn't? I used it :-)
<Hobbsee> mok0: dcut doesnt work on revu.
<Hobbsee> you didnt use it successfully, i suspect
<mok0> Hobbsee: dput should warn user that uploading a i386.changes files will not work
<Hobbsee> siretart: can answer why
<Hobbsee> mok0: but it does work.
<tobiasschulz> and what to use instead?
<tobiasschulz> of dcut
<Hobbsee> tobiasschulz: ask a revu admin to remove the binaries
<Hobbsee> tobiasschulz: (which iv'e done for you)
<Hobbsee> mok0: the fact that ubuntu only accepts sources is not a limitation of dcut.
<mok0> Hobbsee: I used dcut on revu and it did remove the files
<tobiasschulz> Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.tauware.de):
<tobiasschulz>   jeliza_2.2.99.2-1.dsc:
<tobiasschulz> Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of jeliza_2.2.99.2-1.dsc
<tobiasschulz> Note: This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server.
<tobiasschulz>       For the official Debian upload queues, the dcut(1) utility can be used
<tobiasschulz>       to remove stale files from unsuccessful uploads.
<Hobbsee> mok0: also, you wouldnt want to limit things to just sources, as DD's and such can upload to debian from an ubuntu machine
<Hobbsee> tobiasschulz: sorry, fixed, try again :)
<siretart> tobiasschulz: please do read the instruction. I thought it would be very clear that we don't accept binaries
<mok0> Hobbsee: The weird thing is that everything revu needs is there even if you use i386.changes
<tobiasschulz> does the ubuntu server build it alone?
<siretart> tobiasschulz: and where did you read that dcut would work on revu?
<Hobbsee> siretart: it's an output from dput
<mok0> siretart: I tried it and it (seemed to) work
<tobiasschulz> dput said that
<tobiasschulz> Note: This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server.
<tobiasschulz>       For the official Debian upload queues, the dcut(1) utility can be used
<tobiasschulz>       to remove stale files from unsuccessful uploads.
<siretart> please note the part that says 'the official Debian upload queues'
<Hobbsee> siretart: does the upload.ubuntu.com actually allow dcut?
<tobiasschulz> oh sorry ^^
<Hobbsee> siretart: or does anything in the ubuntu world?
<siretart> Hobbsee: nope. not that I know, and not that it would be necessary
<mok0> Let's try it and see if it works
<Hobbsee> siretart: because if not, a patch to that error message saying "this does nto apply for ubuntu" or something woudl be very much welcomed!
<siretart> Hobbsee: perhaps we can remove the warning from dput altogether
<Hobbsee> it's logical for debian.
<Hobbsee> !info dput gutsy
<ubotu> dput: Debian package upload tool. In component main, is optional. Version 0.9.2.27ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 38 kB, installed size 200 kB
<tobiasschulz> now it wirks, without dcut
<Hobbsee> and it's modified for ubuntu
* Hobbsee will do it.
<siretart> Hobbsee: you cannot to uploads to debian built from an ubuntu chroot anyway
<siretart> s/to/do/
<siretart> tobiasschulz: yes, I manually removed the leftover files
<tobiasschulz> thanks
<Hobbsee> siretart: of course - but you can have a debian chroot on a ubuntu machine, and happen to upload from the ubuntu machine
<mok0> Who programs REVU?
<siretart> Hobbsee: you can also dput from the debian chroot. well, okay
<siretart> mok0: https://launchpad.net/~revu-hackers
<Hobbsee> true that
<mok0> Why cant it just zap the binary deb if people use i386.changes?
<mok0> It is still getting orig.tar.gz, diff.gz and .dsc
<siretart> ajmitch has written something that does that. you might ask him why it doesn't work
<mok0> Can I email him?
<Hobbsee> he eats people
<zul> for breakfast
<joejaxx> and lunch
<Hobbsee> and dinner.
<Hobbsee> in fact, he's not particularly fussed as to when he eats them.
<zul> and when he is full he eats more people
<joejaxx> he selection method is based off of /dev/random so you never know when you are next
<zul> so no emailing him would not be a good idea best catch him on irc
<Hobbsee> actually, having seen his inbox..yes, irc is better
<mok0> dh_manpages is terrible
<mok0> dh_installman is terrible
<xxxxx1> mok0: ?
<Hobbsee> quicker response
<mok0> I HAVE a manpage in debian/tmp/usr/share/man/man8
<mok0> in package.manpages I have:
<mok0> usr/share/man/man8
<mok0> and dh_installman STILL claims it's not there
<xxxxx1> this manpages are already on upstream source or you have created?
<mok0> rules creates it
<xxxxx1> is from upstream source?
<mok0> -> upstream makefile installs it in debian/tmp/...
<xxxxx1> ok..
<xxxxx1> you can put these in .install and not in .manpages
<xxxxx1> like
<xxxxx1> debian/tmp/usr/share/man/man8/
<mok0> He, emmet told me to use .manpages; I did use .install
<mok0> I remember having probs with dh_installman and I switched to dh_install
<xxxxx1> if these manpages are from upstream source, you should use dh_install
<mok0> Prefixing with debian/tmp does not work
<mok0> "Cannot determine section for".... 
<xxxxx1> dependsd from the param that you passed to dh_
<xxxxx1> well
<xxxxx1> you package is on revu?
<xxxxx1> oops. your
<xxxxx1> :)
<mok0> It doesn't HAVE to determine section, I already KNOW its section 8 :-(
<mok0> Yes, I am working on wulfware atm.
<xxxxx1> can you paste the link?
<mok0> # 5459
<mok0> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5459
<mok0> dh_install is nice because you can give it a --sourcedir= switch
<mok0> but that doesn't work on dh_installman
<mok0> grrrrrrrr
<tobiasschulz> siretart: my package "jeliza" doesnt appear, and i have uploaded the _sources.changes
<mok0> jeliza... is that a java implementation of eliza??
<tobiasschulz> no. it was
<mok0> I could use a shrink right now
<Hobbsee> siretart: it appears that you were the only ever uploader of dput to bzr - did you know what happened to it?
<tobiasschulz> now it is really more advanced
<tobiasschulz> dput said
<tobiasschulz> Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.tauware.de):
<tobiasschulz>   jeliza_2.2.99.2-1.dsc: done.
<tobiasschulz>   jeliza_2.2.99.2-1.tar.gz: done.
<tobiasschulz>   jeliza_2.2.99.2-1_source.changes: done.
<tobiasschulz> Successfully uploaded packages.
<tobiasschulz> Not running dinstall.
<mok0> tobiasschulz: dput revu jeliza---.source.changes
<tobiasschulz> but nothing appears on the website
<tobiasschulz> ive executed dput -f jeliza_2.2.99.2-1_source.changes
<tobiasschulz> build using debuild
* Hobbsee deletes it from the rejected queue
<mok0> tobiasschulz: you've been banned from revu ;-)
<tobiasschulz> why?
<mok0> (joke)
<tobiasschulz> ^^
<tobiasschulz> but why it doesnt work?
<mok0> Hang on, I think the MOTUs are working on it
<Hobbsee> it should publish, if it doesnt, poke siretart 
<xxxxx1> mok0: you have a lot of work todo in your package.
<mok0> I've done it
<mok0> except %%$#&! manpages :-)
<xxxxx1> nope. manpage is one of other items.
<mok0> I have to upload again
<xxxxx1> ok
<mok0> xxxxx1: Can you tell me about inet-superserver?
<mok0> It's a virtual package, yes?
<xxxxx1> yep, is used on provide.
<xxxxx1> can be openbsd-inetd, xinetd and so on...
<mok0> But some of the other inetd's are configured differently that xinetd
<mok0> So how do I deal with that?
<mok0> xinetd is easy to configure, just drop a file in /etc/xinetd.d and restart the daemon
<mok0> The others have an inetd.conf file you have to edit.
<mok0> What inetd's do people use, anyway?
<geser> !info update-inetd
<ubotu> update-inetd: inetd.conf updater. In component main, is important. Version 4.27-0.2 (feisty), package size 9 kB, installed size 88 kB
<geser> mok0: you probably want to use update-inetd to update the inetd.conf
<mok0> geser: thx I'll check it out
<mok0> problem with dh_installman SOLVED. The stupid program wants a FILENAME in package.manpages. Thats great if you have a 100.
<mok0> (not)
<RainCT> is nautilus's right click -> "make a file" part from fileroller or on what package is it?
<icf7>  /j #ubuntu-java
<RainCT> (it isn't asking before overwritting a file)
<icf7> say oops, ignore that
* RainCT was about to tell icf7 that it's join :P
* icf7 tells RainCT that /j works fine with Konversation ;)
<RainCT> ah ok
<icf7> Anyway, is here someone who'd like to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5467 (Sunflow rendering system) ?
<tobiasschulz> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5474
<tobiasschulz> can anyone look at this and advocate the program?
<tobiasschulz>  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5474
<tobiasschulz> can anyone look at this ? what to do next?
<RainCT> Any suggestion on easy app to package? :P
<tarzeau> RainCT: python or not python?
<tarzeau> RainCT: pick any which isn't packaged but you need?
<tarzeau> RainCT: this one is easy, but it  don't have a license: http://www.aceinternet.co.uk/~mokona/
<tarzeau> (well needs some install target, and path fixing i think)
<tarzeau> (but not too hard)
<tarzeau> you need to take care of savegames int ~/.hex-a-hop/ and data file into /usr/share/games/hex-a-hop/
<ranf> Any MOTU is welcome to comment on "viking" http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5475
<RainCT> tarzeau: how can I do that? just edit the source and create a patch?
<jekil> someone can review please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5443
<tarzeau> RainCT: debuild creates the patch, but you can also use dpatch or something
<bluekuja> ranf, please check your copyright file
<tarzeau> oh cool, thanks for the ir obex gui!
<bluekuja> ranf, not all copyright holders has been listed
<tarzeau> and the copyright year's missing
<tobiasschulz> may a motu check http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5474 , please?
<bluekuja> ranf, check source files to find out that 
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, why dont you remove .ex files?
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, package is not clean
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, it got some autogenerated files that need to be removed in clean target
<tobiasschulz> bluekuja: only because these auto-gen.-files
<tobiasschulz> and the ex files?
<tobiasschulz> or something else?
<bluekuja> checking
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, your copyright file is really bad
<bluekuja> and source files doesnt have copyright headers
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/jeliza-0706111350/jeliza-2.2.99.2/debian/copyright
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, thats not the right way to do a package desc
<tobiasschulz> oh sorry ^^
<bluekuja> control file contains lots of errors
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, you can remove dh_* commands that you dont use
<ranf> bluekuja, will look. thanks.
<RainCT> tarzeau: nice game, will try it :)
<bluekuja> in rules
<bluekuja> ranf, ;)
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, why do you have config.sub/guess stuff?
<tarzeau> RainCT: good luck, if need help, ask me
<bluekuja> in rules
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, you didnt add correct details in ubuntu
<bluekuja> changelog
<tobiasschulz> bluekuja: they should not be there. my program ist using qmake
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, you're not packaging for debian, so why unstable?
<bluekuja> changelog entry is bad
<bluekuja> that's not the way to descibe initial release
<tobiasschulz> bluekuja: which details in ubuntu?
<RainCT> if a program has no version should I name it program_releaseYearMonthDay ?
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, same for version
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, 2.2.99.2-2 is ok for debian, not for ubuntu
<tobiasschulz> why?
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, example version for ubuntu
<bluekuja> 0ubuntu1
<bluekuja> if its the first release
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, 2.2.99.2-2ubuntu1
<tobiasschulz> the upstream release is 2.3 beta
<tobiasschulz> ok
<bluekuja> so why do you use 2.2.99.2-2?
<bluekuja> if its 2.3 beta?
<tobiasschulz> 2.3 is not ready, so i thought i could use 2.2.<high number>
<tobiasschulz> its the second beta
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, you have to use the version you're packaging
<bluekuja> so if it's beta
<bluekuja> it's beta
<bluekuja> not previous one
<tobiasschulz> 2.3beta2ubuntu1? ^^
<tobiasschulz> or what?
<bluekuja> version~beta0ubuntu1
<bluekuja> use the tilde in this case
<tobiasschulz> ok
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, anyway that package is FULL of errors
<tobiasschulz> hm
<bluekuja> and it cannot be accepted in the archive if you dont ask upstream to add copyright headers
<bluekuja> as far as they dont publish it under GPL
<tobiasschulz> i am the author ;)
<bluekuja> (if its GPL)
<tobiasschulz> ans its gpl
<tobiasschulz> jeliza.sf.net
<bluekuja> so add right headers
<bluekuja> to your source
<bluekuja> or you cant publish them
<tobiasschulz> on top of all source files?
<bluekuja> exactly
<tobiasschulz> ok
<bluekuja> just get an example from an existing package
<bluekuja> in the archive
<bluekuja> and add them
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, and fix the stuff I told you
<bluekuja> example files are not needed
<tobiasschulz> but what to add to debian/changelog, if the only new thing in this beta is a new help dialog?
<bluekuja> remember to delete whatever you dont need in the maintainer script folder
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, if its a first release
<bluekuja> just
<bluekuja> * First package release
<bluekuja> or somewthing like that
<ranf> bluekuja, Is it ok to simply add the output of "grep -R Copyright *" to debian/copyright?
<bluekuja> you dont need to close a bug as far as you haven't created one
<tobiasschulz> do you think of a first ubuntu release or a first upstream? the first upstream release was a year ago
<bluekuja> ranf, that not what I mean
<bluekuja> ranf, you can simply see in diff.gz some files
<bluekuja> with a copyright holder different from the one you posted
<bluekuja> you need to list ALL
<bluekuja> of them
<RainCT> tarzeau: well, or perhaps I better wait for an answer from the author (I've send him a mail). on the top of the page it says Copyright 2005. Do you know of any other program?
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, changelog is about the *package*
<bluekuja> not about source
<tarzeau> RainCT: no. i sent hime one too :)
<tarzeau> RainCT: did you play it yet?
<bluekuja> so why do you add source stuff?
<bluekuja> ranf, check modules.h
<bluekuja> for example
<tobiasschulz> so i have to add all things i have changed since june 2006 in debian/changelog =-O or what?
<PriceChild> tobiasschulz, no. int he first package, you just put "Initial Release" or something to that effect.
<bluekuja> ranf: please use Copyright Holder: stuff
<ranf> oh I see
<bluekuja> not the way you did
<RainCT> tarzeau: yes, like it :)
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, changelog inside debian/
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, is for *PACKAGE*
<bluekuja> revisions/entries
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, nothing to do with source changes
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, that are listed in source changelog (Changelog)
<tobiasschulz> ok
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, please fix all this stuff and upload a fixed version
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, if you have any question, feel free to ask
<RainCT> tarzeau: do you know Python? (if so, can I ask you a little question?)
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, I hope that the package builds
<bluekuja> tobiasschulz, (I didnt check if its builds)
<tarzeau> RainCT: no i hate python
<RainCT> lol
<tarzeau> heh
<DktrKranz> d'oh!
<tarzeau> but do you play bub-n-bros.sf.net ? or www.sauerbraten.org ?
<DktrKranz> python rox :)
<tarzeau> or do you know what game this is? telnet 80.219.76.235 27015
<RainCT> tarzeau: no. no, but tried it some time ago. no xD
<tarzeau> nethack
<RainCT> no
<tarzeau> best game!
<RainCT> great graphics xD
<tarzeau> :)
<tarzeau> finally, i'm in gnomish mine town, the shopping mall of nethack
<tarzeau> i robbed a shop by accident (killed a mimick, there was a bottle behind, i had not enough money for)
<TheDumbo> anybody seen Seveas recently.
<tarzeau> (but thanks god i had a scroll of teleport that got me near the ladders)
<icf7> Call for review(and maybe advocation ;) ): http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5467 (Sunflow rendering system). Thanks in advance!
<StevenHarperUK> Hi I have a REVU package uploaded how do I get a MOTU to review it ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5466
<StevenHarperUK> 180 bits here and just me?
<StevenHarperUK> **bots
<RainCT> no, 179. you are also counted
<RainCT> ;)
<mok0> I'm getting a weird lintian error: duplicate-conffile -- but when I look at the package contents, there only IS one file
<man-di> mok0: lintian -i ...deb gives you more infos about the error
<mok0> got it! thx
<jrib> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5444 free picture of a cookie to the first reviewer!
<jrib> StevenHarperUK: you have to offer cookies
<crimsun> well, there is a distinction between a free picture of a cookie and a cookie
<icf7> crimsun: So you would review for a real cookie? ;)
<crimsun> now is it a Free picture of a cookie or just a free picture of a cookie?
<jrib> Free, you can modify at as you wish
<jrib> it even
<crimsun> unfortunately I'm no one for cookies.  Now Free ponies...
<jrib> crimsun: Free pictures of ponies?
<crimsun> no, Free ponies :)
<jrib> heh
<jrib> @pony crimsun 
<crimsun> I'll look after my bug list is a bit more reasonable
<jrib> oh, guess it doesn't work here... I tried
<mok0> jrib: Cookie? How about a beer
<jrib> I guess I could buy some beer and take a picture of it too
<mok0> Is anyone from this afternoon's inetd discussion around?
<icf7> mok0: A free picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Beer_mug.svg , pls review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5467 !
<mok0> icf7: Uhmm
<jrib> don't be fooled, it's just foam, no beer
<mok0> jrib: If you let it stand, foam -> beer
<crimsun> hold onto your wazoos.  alsa-lib merge incoming.
<RainCT> goog night
<mok0> 1
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-12
<geser> 2
<TheDumbo> 3
<mok0> Aha! Someone's here :)
<tarzeau> 4
<Fujitsu> fnf
<mok0> Does someone have time to look at my package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5478
<StevenHarperUK> lo : can anyone review my Package on REVU?
<bryyce> Would someone be willing to review a package - editres?  I'm in the process of updating the x11 apps for Gutsy - http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Uploads/ editres* 
<crimsun> bryyce: +1.
<bryyce> crimsun: thx
* keescook makes flushing noise with USN queue
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> well time to build tribe 1 discs :P
<persia> Is there a standard way to update php.ini when installing new php libraries?
<ajmitch> persia: maybe /etc/php5/conf.d/
<persia> ajmitch: Thanks.
<bryyce> hi, I've got a bunch of X app updates.  Would someone be willing to review/upload them?  There's 9 packages, all with basically the same changes.  http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Uploads/
<persia> bryyce: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Uploads/editres_1.0.3-0ubuntu1.debdiff seems pretty big, and touches files outside debian/.  What change are you intentionally making?
<bryyce> persia: these include new upstream release, plus some packaging changes to debian/control, etc.
<persia> bryyce: I'd recommend that you file a bug for each (add the "upgrade" tag), upload them to REVU, attach either an interdiff or diff -urN of debian/ to the bugs and include the REVU URL in a comment, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to request upload.
<persia> bryyce: Um.  Rather, REVU might take a while.  Still, interdiffs would be great, and subscribing U-U-S makes sure that if nobody looking now gets them all, someone will catch it later.
<joejaxx> anyone know how often u-m-s gets checked?
<RAOF> What's the best way to get a new upstream version of KVM into universe.  Whip up some packages and put them on revu?  I'd like my KVM to work, and bug #1119254 is in the way :)
<RAOF> Debian doesn't have the new upstream version, or I'd just merge/sync it.
<bryyce> persia: hmm, thanks for the info, guess I need to do some reading.  I'll try again some other time.
<persia> RAOF: Put the new upstream on REVU, but also file a bug, attach the interdiff, and subscribe U-U-S to get attention as a new revision, rather than a new package.
<RAOF> persia: Cool, thanks.
<persia> bryyce: I'd be happy to help you through it, if you like.
<bryyce> persia: thanks, maybe another day; I'm pretty wiped out
<persia> bryyce: Sure.  Thanks a lot.
<Simon80> I just tried kitchensync, I think I'm going to cry - it looks like there must be two different kitchensyncs, because the opensync frontend is most definitely not what comes down the pipe on an apt-get install kitchensync
<Simon80> confusion makes me sad
<lifeless> Simon80: check the version
<lifeless> what version did you expect?
<Simon80> 3.5.6
<Simon80> is the apt-get version
<lifeless> yes, I know
<lifeless> I think you'll find its the 4.x versions that use opensync
<Simon80> fun
<Simon80> I wish new software would come out of the pipeline sooner :(
<Simon80> </whining>
<jussi01> hmmmm.... my memory is going, someone remind me of the dpkg command to get source from .dsc ? Please....
<persia> jussi01: dpkg-source -x foo.dsc
<jussi01> persia: thanks... 
* jussi01 points out this thread to the motu's around.... http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=470039
* persia wonders if there should be a REVU workflow associated with https://bugs.launchpad.net/~revu/+subscribedbugs for "needs-packaging" bugs.  "Unconfirmed" meaning no advocates, "Confirmed" meaning one advocate.  Queue is unsubscribed when processing, and only contains packages that need attention.
* jussi01 whole heartedly endorses persia's idea.... :D
<persia> Ah.  Nevermind.  I seem to have misterpreted ~revu.  I retract that entirely.
<jussi01> lol
* jussi01 goes and hides in the corner....
* Simon80 greets jussi01 from the corner
<nixternal> hi, my name is Rich, and I am an ubuntuholic
<rollerskatejamms> Anybody know where the Rails root directory is on ubuntu?
<StevenK> /usr/share/rails
<persia> RAOF: Are you working on 119254?
<RAOF> persia: Kind of.  If you want to work on it, go ahead :)
<RAOF> If not, I'll assign it to me.  It seems it's a bit more than just packaging a new upstream, though - I need to check which version works against the 2.6.22-ish kernel we've got.
<StevenK> 2.6.22-rc something?
<persia> RAOF: No, I just has a minute between things, and checked.  If you are working on it, please assign yourself and set "In Progress".  From what I understand, the easiest solution is the new upstream.
<persia> RAOF: Ah.  Good luck.
<RAOF> Failing that, I could see whether I could just build the kvm module inside the kvm package.  But I can't think of a package that does that, and there's probably a number of really good reasons for it :)
<StevenK> RAOF: At install time?
<persia> RAOF: The really big reason not to do that is that the kvm package would need to be rebuilt everytime the kernel had an ABI bump, and there would be a lag (and lots of no-changes rebuild entries in the changelog).  That's why the Ubuntu kernel carries so many modules.
<persia> StevenK: even with module-assistant, that doesn't really address the issue.
<StevenK> Maybe the solution is to stamp on BenC's forehead, "Don't forget about kvm!"
<RAOF> :)
<persia> RAOF: If you need an update to the kernel modules source at the same time as the new upstream, add a linux-source-2.6.22 task to the bug after including the relevant patch (or better, a pointer to something that is being accepted into Linus' trunk) to get the right attention.
<RAOF> Right, Ok.
<persia> RAOF: For extra bonus points, get a local copy of the ubuntu git, and pull the patch to make sure it applies cleanly :)
<RAOF> Yeah, that wouldn't be too hard.
<RAOF> Wouldn't it be nice if running ./configure would tell you if you're missing a library. Stupid kvm/qemu :(
<persia> RAOF: If it doesn't, then ./configure isn't checking for libraries properly.  That's a bug with the package build system.
<RAOF> Yes, I know,.
<RAOF> kvm's build system is some custom-hacked configure which doesn't check for everything it needs.
<persia> ugh :(
<RAOF> Yes.
<RAOF> Otherwise, I'd just try to *fix it*
<RAOF> Autotools may be impenetrable, arcane magics, but at least there's a manual :P
<jmg> s/manual/grimoire/
<RAOF> :)
<jmg> thats why i like sourcemage's changelogs
<jmg> Added spell for: firestarter to master grimoire
<StevenK> RAOF: If ./configure is missing something, it's probably missing a few lines in configure.in
<StevenK>           && rm -f $file && PATH=../src:$PATH no -o $file en.po
<StevenK> /bin/sh: no: not found
<StevenK> Hrm. Neat.
<RAOF> statik: That's assuming there *is* a configure.in.  *custom* *hacked* *configure* :(
<RAOF> s/statik/ StevenK /
<StevenK> Twitch.
<RAOF> Yes
<Hobbsee> morning all
<persia> Hobbsee: Good afternoon (or did you travel?).
<RAOF> Afternoon Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> persia: i live on european time.  or australian time.  or both.  or a mixture
<persia> heh
<StevenK> No, Hobbsee lives on Hobbsee time.
<StevenK> TZ=HST date , etc
<StevenK> Hrm, HST actually exists.
<StevenK> (And is -10)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<StevenK> Ah ha. HST == Hawaii-Aleutian time zone
* persia is impressed at the political leverage of the Aleutians to change the name from the previous Hawaii Standard Time
<crimsun> there, fixed.  Now we handle user stupidity for most cases.
<Hobbsee> woo!
<Hobbsee> do you shoot them?
<persia> crimsun: In a specific case, or for all pebkac situations?
<crimsun> no, we spoonfeed them.
<Hobbsee> awww
<Hobbsee> shooting them is more effective.
<crimsun> we tell them "no, silly, you were supposed to do _this_, so now do it."
<lifeless> crimsun: why don't we just do it?
<lifeless> crimsun: in the first place?
<crimsun> lifeless: because we're not omniscient.
<Hobbsee> hiya lifeless 
<crimsun> the app in question requires the user to provide a parameter, and the user must provide it for the command to be useful.
<crimsun> the app can't simply provide "a sane default"
<lifeless> hi Hobbsee, enjoying the weather ;)
<Hobbsee> lifeless: brrrr....
<Hobbsee> lifeless: and i'm missing playing Mao.
<Hobbsee> lifeless: and UDS in general.
<crimsun> persia: fairly specific case.  I'd have won some award for the latter...
<jsgotangco> you miss Mao eh?
* Hobbsee hasnt really coped with the idea of winter, 2 days after she goes swimming in spain.
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: yeah
<crimsun> persia: (award being an enjoyable early death, I think)
<Hobbsee> it's a great game :)
<jsgotangco> i suck at it
<persia> crimsun: heh
* Hobbsee muhahahhaha's at her evil rule, a bit more.
<jsgotangco> i'm not too evil enough to play it
<lifeless> Hobbsee: organise some local folk
<Hobbsee> lifeless: i dont have the contacts :(
<Hobbsee> not many, anywya
<lifeless> Hobbsee: they don't have to be foss folk
<Hobbsee> lifeless: i cant remember - you're in sydney or melbourne?
<lifeless> syd
<lifeless> you're in melb right?
<Hobbsee> oh right
<Hobbsee> could just abduct people from SLUG then
<Hobbsee> bah, melbourne.  no.
<Hobbsee> syd here too.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you don't have 'winter' there
<lifeless> Hobbsee: hmm. Why have you not been turning up at SLUG? :)
<lifeless> tsk!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: true that.  i became a wuss since leaving adelaide.  and i'm thin, so i'm allowed.
<ajmitch> hello lifeless 
<Hobbsee> lifeless: because...many reasons.
<lifeless> ola ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> lifeless: i did once
* RAOF is from Hobart and basks in the 15 degree warmth!
<ajmitch> RAOF: luxury!
<jsgotangco> Hobart seems to be a nice place to stay
<RAOF> s/stay/live/
<lifeless> Hobbsee: Oh, then I retrack my tsk. kst. There it goes.
<RAOF> :)
<Q-FUNK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/utf8-migration-tool/+edit-packaging
<Q-FUNK> I'm trying to add a link to the upstream debian package. I don't understand what that Release Series is all about.
<lifeless> its a series of releases where they would all be considered 'roughly the same'
<lifeless> e.g. automake 0.16.0 0.16.1 0.16.2 - its the '0.16 series of releases'
<lifeless> generally you have a series for the most granular component of the version number
<lifeless> in particular in the launchpad model you can only have *one* version of a given series in the distro at once
<Q-FUNK> that doesn't tell me the syntax.
<lifeless> cmon, give me a break, you didn't ask for syntax you asked for what its all about
<lifeless> anyhow looking up, you can't link to the debian package via the packaging-links - they link package to upstream, not package-to-other-distro
<Q-FUNK> true enough. :)
<Hobbsee> hiya elkbuntu 
<lifeless> 'lo elkbuntu 
<Q-FUNK> well, debian is the upstream. it's a native package
<lifeless> then you would have a project in launchpad for the thing
<Q-FUNK> and that info is needed to be able to mark a bug as also affecting another distro.
<lifeless> and if the authors have multiple release series - e.g. if they have point releases for sarge etc and a mainline- make them, otherwise just use 'trunk'
<persia> Q-FUNK: Rather than using "Also affects Upstream", try "Also affects distribution", and select Debian - just add the link to the BTS.
<Q-FUNK> persia: ok, that seems to wokr better.  thanks!
<Q-FUNK> strange that debian cannot be considered upstream for a native package, thoguh.
* persia disapproves of native packages in general.  Debian native packages should actually be hosted in alioth, and Ubuntu native packages should actually be hosted in launchpad.
<StevenK> And how does that help?
<Q-FUNK> alioth only makes sense if a package is team maintained or impossibly complex.  otherwise, it's a waste of alioth's resources.
<persia> StevenK: If a previously native package is hosted in an RCS, and "Upstream" releases are made, from which new revisions are generated, all the confusions go away.
<persia> Personally, I think native packages are legacy from before alioth.
<Q-FUNK> they are not. 
<persia> Q-FUNK: I think that native packages should be "upstream" hosted in alioth, with debidan revision numbers, to more easily manage branches for releases, etc.  It's only my opinion, and certanily not relfective of current practices.
<StevenK> persia: Being the maintainer of a native packae, I can say hand over heart, don't wanna!
<StevenK> package, even
<Q-FUNK> understood.  then again, a native debian package tends to be for software that only makes sense within the debian universe. it doesn't usually need to be branched.
<persia> StevenK: I completely understand :)  I've convinced one maintainer to do that for Ubuntu native packages, but I don't expect native packages to ever really go away.
<persia> Q-FUNK: Branches for each release, or for larger native packages with open maintainers, possibly separate branches for Debian,Ubuntu,Mepis,etc. (although this makes more sense with distributed version control than with SVN).
* persia has an especially strong opinion regarding Ubuntu native packages, to make it easier to package for Debian later, if appropriate.
<crimsun> this is a bit troublesome: /dev/dm-0              13G -968M   13G   -  /
<Hobbsee> haha...well done!
<persia> crimsun: Um..  5% extra special secret admin space?
<crimsun> persia: no clue, will have to check on next boot
<dholbach> good morning
<RAOF> Good evening, dholbach :)
<dholbach> hiya RAOF
<Hobbsee> hiya dholbach!
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach 
<RAOF> It'
<RAOF> s a bit love-in in -motu!
* RAOF needs to move that enter key just a little bit further away.
<jussi0l> hello everyone
<jussi0l> hello dholbach 
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee back
<dholbach> heya jussi01
<jussi0l> anyone know what the equivalent of debians x-window-system-dev is??
<jussi0l> do we have that?
<RAOF> xorg-dev?
<RAOF> But you're not meant to build-depend on that :)
<jussi0l> RAOF, im installing cedega ;)
<RAOF> Looks like xorg-dev should cover any deveopment *with* X11 you may require :)
<jussi0l> cvs...
<RAOF> I'd be surprised if xorg-dev *didn't* pull in everythning you need.
<jussi0l> ok..:D 
<jussi0l> gah... 
<jussi0l> hate errors...
<RAOF> Stupid cedega?
<jussi0l> RAOF, are you busy?any idea how to fix: WineCVS.sh: 48: Syntax error: "(" unexpected
<jussi0l> RAOF, yeah...stupid cedega
<crdlb> ...use wine?
<crimsun> jussi0l: prepend bash?
<jussi0l> my little brother wants need for speed... (rolls eyes)
<RAOF> Or edit the file to have a /usr/bash symlink.
<RAOF> s/symlink/shebang/
<RAOF> And NFS works on cedega but not wine?
<jussi0l> yeah
<RAOF> Sucks.
<jussi0l> sigghh...
<jussi0l> caleb@caleb:~/Desktop$ bash sh WineCVS.sh
<RAOF> Doesn't make with the working?
<jussi0l> /bin/sh: /bin/sh: cannot execute binary file
<RAOF> You probably don't want to bash sh :)
<RAOF> Just "bash WineCVS.sh" would hopefully work.
<jussi0l> heh... now i feel stupid... thanks
<RAOF> And that works?
* RAOF 's experience with WineCVS.sh has not been exactly smooth.  Although I did have the x86-64 handicap.
<jussi0l> RAOF, yeah, its working... any idea which profile i should use?
<RAOF> Oh, so it hasnt' built yet :)
<RAOF> Eh.  Whatever the default was.
<jussi0l> gah...
<RAOF> Or, rather, put it in $HOME, and use latest CVS.
<RAOF> I just can't remember the options, frankly :)
<jussi0l> hehe..ok
<jussi0l> gah, this is a really annoying one
<jussi0l> Running Profile : cvscedega_head
<jussi0l> Enter root Password: 
<jussi0l> su: Authentication failure
<jussi0l> Sorry.
<jussi0l> oopps
<jussi0l> sorry bout the flood
<RAOF> You should be able to build/install it to $HOME, which won't requrie root.
<RAOF> Or even require root!
<jussi0l> wb RAOF 
<RAOF> Still working?
<StevenK> !test
<ubotu> failed
<jussi0l> no... i cant get past that root thing
<RAOF> I was sure there was a "local only" install.
<RAOF> Worst case scenario is you actually set a root password, I suppose
<jussi0l> hmmm.. should i run the script as root? or not a good idea??
<jussi0l> ie. sudo bash WineCVS.sh ??
<RAOF> That'd probably work too.
<jussi0l> RAOF, thanks, seems to be working now... 
<jussi0l> sorry everyone else for clogging up motu channel with cedega help...
<RAOF> c'mon archive.ubuntu.com, be faster.
<RAOF> Daddy wants to build a new kvm package, that actually works.
<shawarma> RAOF: Use a mirror?
<StevenK> RAOF: *Twitch*
<RAOF> Well, that would be the obvious solution.  But obviousness is for crazies.
<jussi0l> lol
<Hobbsee> mmm...crazies...
* Hobbsee eats the crazies.
<RAOF> Hungry, Hobbsee ?] 
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> rathe
<Hobbsee> it's about time for breakfast
<RAOF> ...
<RAOF> It's about time for *dinner*
<Hobbsee> bah.  dinner at this hour?
<RAOF> Yeah, maybe it's a bit late :)
<Hobbsee> it's lunchtime, definetly. but not dinner.
<RAOF> That's true.
<Hobbsee> ...wow.  http://community.livejournal.com/customers_suck/22037088.html#cutid1
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: need to be logged in
<RAOF> Who makes a restricted access blog?
<Burgundavia> the skinny?
<Hobbsee> oh, point, sorry
<Hobbsee> forgot about that
* jussi0l cries...
<Hobbsee> RAOF: some entries are private - some bosses and such get angry if you display who you work for, etc.
<Q-FUNK> even logged in, it fails.  probably only visible to friends.
<RAOF> Pfft.
<Hobbsee> it's the whole corporate blogging thing
<Hobbsee> yeah, sorry, forgot about that.  it's friends only
<vil> heya, bluekuja
<crimsun> silly blogs.
<RAOF> Well, that looks like it was easier than I feared.  Looks like I can just drop in the new upstream KVM and it works.  Yay.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: that community stops me from shooting people.  at least a bit.
<Hobbsee> (yay, stupid customers)
* jussi0l smacks cedega, games and all little brothers....
<Burgundavia> jussi0l: I object!
<jussi0l> Burgundavia, fix my cedega then...
<Burgundavia> no, the last part
<geser> vil: if you sponsor uploads: you can use -k to debuild (or dpkg-buildpackage) to get it signed with your key so you don't need to change the changelog to your name
<jussi0l> hehe
<Hobbsee> weasel boy is objecting.   you must change.  :P
<jussi0l> lol
* Hobbsee ducks
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: I will smack you
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: 
<Burgundavia> :D
<jussi0l> now now, thats harsh...
<vil> geser, right, dholbach just told me
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: i beleive that's called abuse.
<Burgundavia> yes, I render you speechless
<Burgundavia> it is my stunning wit
<Hobbsee> :P
<vil> I did not change the changelog but debuild -e did
<Hobbsee> it's hte fact that i'm freezing, so cant type
<jussi0l> gah.. its telling me it cant find ./configure
* jussi0l slaps cedega again...
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: i believe that's against hte COC, anyway :P
<Hobbsee> although, you'd have the power to try to change it now
<RAOF> jussi0l: Got autotools installed?
<Burgundavia> likely, but I can just vote not to censure me :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: besides, you'd have to find me.
<jussi0l> RAOF, maybe not... this is a fresh install so unlikely...
* jussi0l goes to get autotools
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: you live in that country down under. Can't be that big
<Hobbsee> heh
<Burgundavia> remember, I come from Canada. To us, everybody but Russia is small
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: let's hope your wit is better than your ability to tell ages, then
<RAOF> I suppose I really should check whether or not all the patches to kvm are still needed.
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: right
<bluekuja> vil: pong
<dholbach> when is the next REVU DAY going to be?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: today!
<crimsun> why not on Thursday?
* Hobbsee uploaded 3 bits a few days ago, and archived a few more.
<crimsun> we already have Q&A on Thursday, so having REVU the same day wouldn't be too far a stretch
<Hobbsee> revu seems slightly broken at the moment, which makes it hard
<dholbach> sounds good
<dholbach> it'S really slow for me :/
<dholbach> maybe we should try the bzr based approach soon - see how it works
<crimsun> MOTUMenuHeader updated
<dholbach> ROCK
* dholbach hugs crimsun
<vil> bluekuja, sorry for stealing your patches
<raphink> hi 
<raphink> :)
<raphink> does anyone know the debuild switch to build both binary and source and include them in the .changes?
<shawarma> raphink: That's the default.
<raphink> pbuilder will only include the binaries in the .changes but still lists "source" as a built architecture
<raphink> that's what I thought shawarma, but there must be a way to force it since pbuilder doesn't do it
<bluekuja> vil, don't worry. I hope it wont happen again
<shawarma> raphink: pbuilder calls debuild?
<raphink> I think so shawarma
<raphink> well no
<raphink> it calls dpkg-build-package
<raphink> it calls dpkg-buildpackage
<shawarma> Ah, that makes more sense.
<shawarma> raphink: You have DEBBUILDOPTS set in pbuilderrc?
<raphink> no
<raphink> that's what I'm asking
<raphink> if you know the switch to pass it 
<raphink> so that it includes the source 
<raphink> ah wait
<raphink> DEBBUILDOPTS is set to nothing
<raphink> so maybe I should set it to -b
<raphink> let's try like that :)
<shawarma> win 77
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<Hobbsee> hiya
<jussi0l> hmmm, what does XFree86-Mesa = in ubuntu ?
<crimsun> not sure what you're asking
<crimsun> libgl1-mesa-dev is the build-dep binary package used for most source packages; the source package name is mesa.
<jussi0l> crimsun, thanks
<jussi0l> exactly what im after i think...
<crimsun> what are you trying to compile?
<jussi0l> cedega...still
<DarkMageZ> cedega is still a waste of time
<crimsun> I'm pretty sure `apt-get build-dep wine` should cover all that.
<jussi0l> gah... i have that already...hmmm wonder what the problem is...
<jussi0l> hah, didnt know i could do that ...
<jussi0l> :D
<jussi0l> thank you crimsun 
<crimsun> np
<jussi0l> DarkMageZ, can you recomend something that will make need for speed run on linux then?
<DarkMageZ> which need for speed?
<jussi0l> underground 2
<DarkMageZ> it's probably playable then
<jussi0l> only works on cedega afaik tried on wine and it didnt work...
<bluekuja> heya guys
<bluekuja> a question
<bluekuja> if I'm the debian maintainer for a package
<jussi0l> crimsun, still up?
<bluekuja> when importing it to ubuntu (syncs gonna be closed on 20 june)
<bluekuja> should I change maintainer to MOTU
<bluekuja> or I can leave myself ?
<Hobbsee> you can leave it as yourself, if it's a direct sync
<Hobbsee> as in, no ubuntu1 version number on it
<Hobbsee> and you can manually rqeuest syncs after that, too
<jussi0l> hmmm anyway... if someone can be bothered with my cedega problem... http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25215/
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, if I want to version it with ubuntu, should I change the maintaine field?
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: yes.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, thanks
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: but are teh packages in ubuntu and debian supposed to be the same?
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, yeah
<jussi0l> Hobbsee, to the rescue again :P
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: then why not upload it to debian, and sync it straight across?
<Hobbsee> and not bother with 2 separate uploads?
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, new queue is huge now
<Hobbsee> then the autosyncer does it's magic, when i'ts running, too
<bluekuja> and it wont be in debian for the 20 june
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: they'll get it down.  you wont be abel to bypass the NEW queue by uploading it with an ubuntu version either
<Hobbsee> oh wait
<Hobbsee> maybe you would
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: is this new to debian, or a new version?
<man-di> bluekuja: current NEW queue is not too lone
<bluekuja> one of them is new
<bluekuja> man-di, I'm talking about debian new
<man-di> bluekuja: thats processed all in a day or two
<man-di> bluekuja: /me too
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: sorry, is it currently in ubuntu at all?
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, nope
<bluekuja> man-di, is there from about 1 week
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: then it's faster to put it into debian, and request a sync.
<man-di> bluekuja: I know the guy who processes it
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: also, you'll have up to new package freeze for that sync to be processed
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: and they'll look at the filed date of the sync, when they action it
<man-di> bluekuja: he is currently at Debcamp, I'm sure it will be processed soon
<bluekuja> man-di, oh ok great :)
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, thanks for the hint
<Hobbsee> blue
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: it'll still get stuck in the NEW queue for longer, if it's a new to ubuntu package, nto in debian.
<Hobbsee> because if it's in debian first, then ubuntu knows the debian ftpmasters have already checked a lot of stuff
<Hobbsee> no problem
<Hobbsee> like, licencing and such
<bluekuja> ah yeah
<bluekuja> so It should be better to wait debian first
<bluekuja> and then sync
<Hobbsee> yes
<bluekuja> ok
<bluekuja> sounds great
<bluekuja> :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<bluekuja> tnx Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> no problem
<icf7> Anyone in here who'd like to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5467 (Sunflow rendering system)? Thank you!
<tarzeau> icf7: hey you know pixie?
<tarzeau> http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~okan/Pixie/pixie.htm
<icf7> tarzeau: No, looks interesting
<tarzeau> i made a debian package already
<tarzeau> gnu.ethz.ch/debian/pixie/ 
<tarzeau> http://sunflow.sourceforge.net/gallery/v0070/cloth_b-anim.mov <- very nice
<tarzeau> icf7: do you do 3d modeling?
<tarzeau> icf7: know www.sauerbraten.org ? blender? wings3d ? misfit model 3d?
<icf7> tarzeau: No, I don't, my brother does
<tarzeau> are his models online?
<icf7> tarzeau: I normally write 2D web applications, just saw Sunflow was missing packages
<tarzeau> i see
<icf7> tarzeau: I don't really know, I think not
* jussi0l parties on!!! 
<Sindwiller> Ittadakimasu
<shawarma> I forget: What are the requirements for uploading to revu? I've uploaded before, but I'm using a new e-mail address this time. Should that matter?
<icf7> shawarma: You should have a working pgp key associated to you address
<shawarma> Ah, it appears you also need patience.
<shawarma> It's there now.
<shawarma> A second pair of eyes on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5483 would be much appreciated.
<shawarma> It's still two MOTU ACKs or one core-dev ACK ?
<Hobbsee> it's still two acks
<Hobbsee> shawarma: are you a MOTU?
<shawarma> Sure
<Hobbsee> (or in core?)
<Hobbsee> right, then you're one
<shawarma> Not core.
<shawarma> Ah, so just one more ack?
<shawarma> Great.
<Hobbsee> doesnt matter.  you're still in ~ubuntu-dev so that counts
<shawarma> Right, right. that was implied in my question: "It's still two (additional) ACKs (apart from my own of course) or one core-dev ACK ?"
<shawarma> :)
<Hobbsee> looking over it
<shawarma> But ok, just two ACKs in total.
<Hobbsee> no, it's 2 acks in total
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Thanks!
<Hobbsee> or last i knew
<Hobbsee> shawarma: ooh, python stuff too hey?
<Hobbsee> shawarma: FAIL!!!
<StevenK> Heh heh
<Hobbsee> :P
<Hobbsee> shawarma: s/unstable/gutsy, for one.  release number looks wrong, too
<shawarma> arh, shit.
<Hobbsee> shawarma: perhaps 1.2.35-1.1-0ubuntu1 or whatever?  i havent checked teh big link
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Um, why?
<Hobbsee> shawarma: link to the homepage in the long description is also good.
<StevenK> Yes, I agree. Why?
<shawarma> It has none.
<StevenK> (Versioning)
<shawarma> None that I know of.
<Hobbsee> oh, i thought the RPM link was actually a sublink off the main page
<Hobbsee> sorry
<shawarma> There's a reason why I had to yank it out of a src rpm. /me shudders
<shawarma> Hobbsee: No, fedora archive. Man, what a mess.
<Hobbsee> ahhhh
* Hobbsee makes StevenK look it over.
* shawarma kicks linda
<Hobbsee> oh right, i see.  adn teh system-config-samba-1.2.35-1.1.src.rpm bit is a fedora thing, too
<shawarma> Yes.
<shawarma> Alright, that's it. I'm going to do nasty things to linda now.
<Hobbsee> haha
<StevenK> Keep talking, I'm reloading.
<Hobbsee> shawarma: you're aware that the author of linda's in the room, are you not?
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Indeed.
<Hobbsee> :)
<shawarma> So, if DEBEMAIL contains "@ubuntu.com" the latest distro in changelog must be an Ubuntu one. Agreed?
<StevenK> Let's just say, he will be aware. :-P
<Hobbsee> shawarma: pretty much
<Hobbsee> shawarma: although, some people use @ubuntu.com address to upload to debian, occasionally
<Hobbsee> it's more "if you want to upload an ubuntu version, you need to upload it to an ubuntu distro"
<shawarma> Hobbsee: That's even better, yes.
<shawarma> StevenK: Uh.. linda doesn't check the distribution at all right now?
<shawarma> So apart from the distribution, it looks good?
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Or are you not done?
<Hobbsee> yeah, it looked fine to me - but my python isnt so great
<shawarma> Alright. Thanks for looking at it.
<shawarma> StevenK: Were you looking it over, too?
<zakame> hmm is sudo borked?
<zakame> I just created a gutsy chroot earlier and sudo isn't behaving as expected
<Hobbsee> shawarma: he's TV watching
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Gah...
<zakame> meh, never mind, missing right /etc/group entries...
<xxxxx1> morning people!
<Hobbsee> morning xxxxx1 
<Nightrose> I wanted to upload my first package to REVU but it got rejected because I have got no upload rights - I suspect my key is not synced yet - can someone please have a look at that?
<bluekuja> Nightrose, joined universe contributors team in lp?
<Nightrose> yes bluekuja
<bluekuja> Nightrose, if you did everything right, just ask to a REVU admin to sync the keyring
<bluekuja> siretart: you can do it? :)
<Nightrose> ok thx
<siretart> bluekuja: updating now
<bluekuja> siretart, thanks :)
<bluekuja> Nightrose, wait siretart's update and try uploading again
<Nightrose> thx bluekuja and siretart
<bluekuja> ;)
<xxxxx1> hello Ursinha 
<Ursinha> hello xxxxx1 
<zakame> hi all
<Ursinha> hi zakame 
<zakame> heya Ursinha
<dholbach> can a revu admin get rid of a gdm upload that stalled somehow?
<dholbach> that'd be nice
<Hobbsee> dholbach: sure
<Hobbsee> dholbach: done
<Hobbsee> hiya persia 
<dholbach> thanks a lot Hobbsee
<persia> Hey Hobbsee
<zakame> hmmm, mailping's in a knit, our version is 0.0.4ubuntu3, but debian's at 0.0.4-0.2, causing grab-merge to calculate a new version of 0.0.4-0.2ubuntu1...
<zakame> should I bump to that, or to version 0.0.4ubuntu4 instead?
<Hobbsee> zakame: just ignore it.  syslog-summary does the same
<zakame> Hobbsee: meaning? go to 0.0.4ubuntu4?
<persia> dholbach: Sorry it's taken so long.  I've finished reading, and comments are being put up at MOTU/WikiCleanUp/SomeReviewNotes
<dholbach> persia: WOW
<dholbach> persia: I'll read it in a bit
<persia> zakame: I'd recommend 0.0.4ubuntu4, as otherwise dpkg --compare-versions will probably complaing
<Hobbsee> zakame: has someone already merged the previous changes?
<persia> dholbach: I've a couple hundred more to transfer, but I hope it will be a useful place to start from.
<Hobbsee> wouldnt surprise me if 4ubuntu3 is already the merged version, though
<zakame> persia: yeah, I supposed that
<Q-FUNK> hm. don't packages without any ubuntu delta get sync'ed from debian automatically, anymore?
<Hobbsee> they do still, iirc
<zakame> Hobbsee: no, the newest debian version didn't merge, it was a BSP release
<Hobbsee> zakame: BSP?
* persia has reservations about the ubuntu versioning for native packages anyway - it completely breaks NMUs.  We should really use -0.0ubuntu1 to start.
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: depends when the freeze is
<zakame> Hobbsee: bug squashing party
<Hobbsee> zakame: ahhh.  yes
<zakame> persia: what complicated this was it was a native package being updated with an NMU
<zakame> anyway, thanks :D
<persia> zakame: Exactly.  I've enough now, but one of my future agenda items is to address that :)
<zakame> hehe
<Q-FUNK> Hobbsee: we're not yet in a freeze are we?
<StevenK> Nope, no freeze
<zakame> no, not, see ReleaseSchedule
* persia thanks StevenK for pointing out the problems with ubuntu versioning and native NMUs.
<dholbach> persia: wow
<dholbach> persia: I'm amazed - really great work
<Q-FUNK> I thought so.  i wonder why all my packages have been synced except for cups-pdf, then.
<persia> dholbach: I'm not likely to actually contribute much towards the rewrite, but I'm hoping to put enough information together that it's easy for those that do.
<dholbach> persia: you contribute quite a lot to it :)
<Nightrose> bluekuja: my package still gets rejected saying "Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution." - should I wait longer or is something borked?
<bluekuja> Nightrose, did you setup dput properly?
<bluekuja> or are you uploading to upload.ubuntu.com? :)
<Nightrose> hmm will have a look ;-)
<Nightrose> thx
<bluekuja> Nightrose, please add REVU at your dput.cf
<bluekuja> Nightrose, and then dput name-choosen-in-dput.cd .changes file
<bluekuja> *cf
<bluekuja> Nightrose, if you have any more question, feel free to ask
<mok0> I want to upload extra fixes to REVU, but get the message: Already uploaded to revu.tauware.de
<Nightrose> thx bluekuja
<bluekuja> Nightrose, ;)
<bluekuja> mok0, delete .upload file
<persia> Those seeking sponsorship: please review the guidelines available from MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue (or the more verbose equivalent in MOTU/Contributing): merge bugs should be confirmed when U-U-S is subscribed.
<zakame> persia++
* persia wonders why there are "In Progress" bugs in queue
<mok0> thx it worked
<mok0> but it complained over the orig.tar.gz file not being required
<bluekuja> mok0, ;)
<bluekuja> mok0, yeah, if already uploaded 
<bluekuja> is ok
<mok0> so I don't need the -sa switch on debuild anymore?
<bluekuja> mok0, yeah, you need it
<bluekuja> mok0, just ignore that dput message
<bluekuja> mok0, you can drop or use it, nothing change for dput
<bluekuja> you just receive that message, that you can easily ignore ;)
<Nightrose> so here is my first package ;-) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5487 please have a look
<mok0> ok thx
<bluekuja> mok0, good luck
<mok0> persia: can we discuss the xinetd stuff now?
<persia> mok0: I'm in the middle of something, but I should be ready in about two minutes.
<mok0> Ill get some mocca
<xxxxx1> mok0: your comment number "8" is debian related, not ubuntu.
<xxxxx1> ubuntu xinetd provides inet-superserver, but debian not.
<persia> mok0: OK.  My memory was that you wanted to put an entry in the local inetd, and have it work for either inet-supoerserver, or xinetd, right?
<mok0> ok, but there is still the problem of the configuration of the two servers
<persia> xxxxx1: Cool!  Thanks for pointing this out :)
<mok0> persia: yes
<xxxxx1> persia: ;)
<mok0> lag :)
<persia> mok0: If it provides inet-superserver, it should accept input from update-inetd (with appropriate config adjustments), as I understand it.
<lionel> persia: when a merge is confirmed when subscribing U-U-S, that means you have to confirm your own bug? iirc this is unwanted (to confirm your own bugs)
<mok0> /etc/xinetd.conf looks very different from inetd.conf
<mok0> There are scripts to convert inetd -> xinetd but not the other way around
<persia> lionel: Yes.  The general rule "Don't confirm your own bugs" does not apply when requesting work from others (Contributor asking for upload, Developer asking for SYNC, etc.).
<lionel> Okay, okay
<persia> lionel: The idea being that the receiving team wants to know that the necessary checks have been completed, rather than being a random bug typed in by someone not so familiar with the processes.
<lionel> persia: btw, don't you think it would be fine to get the mail "job done" on U-U-S mailing-list for sync and merge
<RainCT> Hi
<persia> Ah another example: one writing a patch asking for packaging.
<lionel> I find the mail useless if it's not the case
<lionel> you always have to refer to the bug list on LP to know if something is needed to be done
<persia> lionel: I don't subscribe to the mail - the LP queue is more useful to me (I subscribe to the bugs I process - this makes it easier to follow up).
<lionel> I tend to first read my mails before going to LP, but that's a matter of taste I believe
<persia> lionel: I have the same workflow, but I don't subscribe to the U-U-S list, as I don't find any of that mail useful.
<Hobbsee> lionel: what's your suggestion for the ML, sorry?
<lionel> Hobbsee: only to get mail for sync acked or merge uploaded on the ML
<Hobbsee> i beleive it already does?
<lionel> if we unsubscribe U-U-S just after doing the job, the ML does not get the notification
<lionel> Hobbsee: if we follow persia procedure, just after doing the job, you unsubscribe U-U-S
* persia notes that the current draft process suggests unsubscribing prior to starting work
<Hobbsee> ahh
<lionel> and mail does not reach the ML
<Hobbsee> true - but does the entire u-u-s sponsor list *want* to know about everything?
<Hobbsee> i guess so, if you're using mail only
<Hobbsee> which is kinda dangerous -as LP mail can be delayed
<lionel> as I said, I tend to read my mail first and see if something is not done then go to LP
<StevenK> And LP mail via a list doubly so delayed.
<persia> I don't think mail-only is a good way to sponsor: it's easy to have a conflict because of the 300 second LP mail delay.
<StevenK> Agreed.
<lionel> but, probabily... yes, you're right :)
<StevenK> lionel: You lose. :-P
<persia> Is there any coordination or discussion on the UUS ML?
<lionel> Ok, ok 
<StevenK> Nope.
<lionel> No
<StevenK> It's all bugmail
<lionel> So this mailing-list is useless ? :)
<StevenK> lionel: Hobbsee and I have spent hours on that list. Thanks.
* StevenK goes off to do something else.
<persia> StevenK: Creating the list in the first place was an important part of getting the team started - think of the new process as a patch: adding to your previous work rather than ignoring it :)
<lionel> StevenK: hey, sorry, just asking question, I'm new :)
* Fujitsu wishes that LP mail was a bit less like snail mail
* persia notes that prior to UUS foundation, new revision candidates would sometimes take months to be uploaded.
<Fujitsu> persia: Not if you were persistent enough with poking people. I was :P
<lionel> yeah, creating u-u-s is a great idea and work very nicely
<lionel> (I would no be there if it has not works great)
<persia> Fujitsu: Yeah, well, in the beginning, new candidates were uploaded quickly.  Sometime just prior to Dapper release, the firehose started ramping up, and I was not very active during Edgy, so my revisions languished.
<man-di> lionel: Debian has removed apache 1.x from unstable. Can I safely remove libapache-mod-jk for apache 1.x for Ubuntu too?
<persia> man-di: Not quite.  If Debian removes something, you need to track down all the reverse-depends, and make sure that those that are to be kept are modified to not be reverse depends.  Then, file a bug requesting the remaining packages be dropped from Ubuntu with an explanation of why (removed from Debian is a good starting point), and send for sponsorship (unconfirmed).
<lionel> hum... If debian removed apache 1.x, I think we will remove it also
<lionel> that that's a transition, not so small...
<lionel> we should coordonate it
<man-di> I just meant removing on binary package remove from a source package which builds several binary packages
<man-di> persia: this needs no removal request. I guess
<man-di> lionel: definitely
<Hobbsee> shawarma: did you ever get your debdiff reviewed?
<man-di> lionel: if we want to be really insane we can still build it for Ubuntu and not for Debian from the same source deb
<geser> man-di: either wait till the bug gets fixed in Debian or move ahead and patch the pkg
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Which one was that?
<Hobbsee> shawarma: the one you asked about earlier
<man-di> geser: I'm the debian maintainer of it
<shawarma> Hobbsee: The system-config-samba package?
<shawarma> Hobbsee: or did I also ask about a debdiff?
<Hobbsee> shawarma: that's the one
<man-di> geser: I just wanna coordinate this with lionel as he keeps an eye on the Ubuntu side
<persia> man-di: Sorry - I was hoping you'd chase the whole transition.  Dropping it from your package is a good start.
<Hobbsee> sorry, it was a new package.  my error.
<shawarma> Hobbsee: No, but I put it in pitti's review queue. He'll get to it sometime. :)
<Hobbsee> this bash has been doing my head in.
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> StevenK's around now, if he's up to reviewing something, IDK
<shawarma> IDK?
<man-di> persia: first my packages I need to care about anyway, then the rest
<Hobbsee> i dont know
<shawarma> StevenK: poke?
<lionel> man-di: I think we are going to sync this package and not merge any more quite soon
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Oh, right.
<man-di> lionel: syncing would be best, current version in unstable should be synced already
<lionel> man-di: before removing apache module, I would like to know if/when we are going to remove apache in Ubuntu
<man-di> lionel: oh no, Ubuntu has not synced yet
<shawarma> lionel: apache 1.3?
<lionel> shawarma: yes
<man-di> lionel: understandable
<shawarma> lionel: I don't think apache1.3 will be in gutsy.
<man-di> shawarma: is this deciced already?
<lionel> shawarma: same for me, but before droping packages, we have to be sure :)
<lionel> shawarma: but now you're mister Ubuntu Server, aren't you? :)
<StevenK> shawarma: Hum?
<geser> man-di: it takes some time till removals move from Debian to Ubuntu
<shawarma> man-di, lionel: Well, not as such, but it's completely amputated anyway. We don't build php4 at all anymore, and the php5 package doesn't build apache 1.3 modules, etc..
<man-di> lionel: that is exactly why I asked. Bad DDs would have just removed it
<shawarma> StevenK: Could you be pursuaded to take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5484 ?
<geser> but you can speed it up with a removal request based on that it got removed from Debian
<StevenK> shawarma: Nope. :-)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: remember...he'll do nasty things to your machine if he says no
<persia> geser: Is there an automated process?  I've found packages that were distributed for over a year after being dropped from Debian.
<man-di> geser: do I need a removal request for binary packages? I thought that is for source packages only
<shawarma> StevenK: Yeah, what Hobbsee says.
<StevenK> persia: It is not
<shawarma> StevenK: :)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i thought there was soem form of it.
<StevenK> geser: And quote the Debian bug number.
<StevenK> There's NBS, which is for binary packages that aren't built any more.
<StevenK> I don't think source packages that don't exist in Ubuntu are uncereminously killed, though.
<persia> man-di: Removal requests for binary packages are only needed when they are dropped from only some architectures.  Otherwise the scripts catch it, and the archive admins eventually remove them.
<StevenK> Er, don't exist in Debian
<man-di> persia: so no removal request needed in this case, same as in Debian then
<lionel> persia: are you sure? in Universe, I thought we have to do a removal request for binary packages that have NBS
<persia> man-di: I think so.  Removal requests are only required for dropped source or architecture-specific dropped binaries.
<persia> lionel: Mr. Heen has so advised me that I shouldn't file removal requests for dropped binaries except when it is architecture specific.  It might take a while, but they get to it eventually.
<geser> persia: if I find packages removed from Debian I mostly file remove requests. I don't know if it happens automagically and how often.
<persia> geser: That's been my practice as well (unless I see a reason to keep it in Ubuntu).  I think that the several of us who do that are the reason that it appears semi-automated.
<shawarma> StevenK: There's no chance? Hobbsee said it looked alright, we just want someone with stronger python-fu to say it's good to go.
<persia> mok0: Just out of curiosity, did update-inetd work for you, or are you still having an issue?
<mok0> persia: I am taking a look at some other packages; what they do there...
<persia> mok0: OK.  Let us know if you need help with a fancy postinst :)
<zakame> anyone playing with atlas-cpp merge? It sure looks like it just needs a sync
<man-di> zakame: I will take care of it
<mok0> persia: amanda creates _both_ an entry in xinetd.d and in inetd.conf (via inetd-update)
<man-di> zakame: I'm debian maintainer of it
<mok0> persia: that's easy and it will work 
<persia> mok0: That sounds ideal to me.
<zakame> man-di: yeah, I know :)
<mok0> persia: :-) great
<man-di> zakame: there is a bigger update for all this comming up
<man-di> zakame: let me figure all out and then sync everything
<zakame> ah, cool
<zakame> hmm, what else to merge?
<Hobbsee> zakame: *
<zakame> Hobbsee: *? I'm trying not to be greedy :P
<persia> zakame: Be greedy (but check the bugs on LP first)
<Hobbsee> zakame: whatever's not done by now is fair game, imo
<zakame> persia: hehe, very well
<zakame> Hobbsee: game on, then
<persia> I disagree - I argue that anything that hasn't been claimed on LP is fair game.
<Hobbsee> :)
* persia wants to make sure freqtweak doesn't get merged until it can be sync'd
<zakame> noted
<persia> zakame: It's in LP (as any other issues like that should be)
<mok0> what uid/group names are standard for inetd daemons?
<mok0> nobody/nogroup??
<shawarma> mok0: Depends on what it'd have to do..
<mok0> it needs no privileges
<persia> mok0: That works fine, unless the package needs to write to the filesystem.
<mok0> It just needs to write to stdout which inetd redirects to a socket.
<mok0> I tnink :-)
<persia> mok0: Test, Test, Test, and then rebuild and test again :)
<mok0> Yeah yeah yeah
<mok0> Why do I ask?
<mok0> :)
<statik> dholbach: thanks for your comments on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5473, I really appreciate them. I did not understand the line about debian/pyversions though.
<statik> dholbach: I have a debian/pyversions file, do I need to change what it contains?
<zakame> erm, another one on carpaltunnel
<zakame> we ought to be more careful when bumping versions on NMUs
<mok0> Seems like I need to make an entry into /etc/services. Is there a script to do that?
<persia> zakame: Perhaps you'd like to draft a spec?  I've some thoughts on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmmetHikory, but as I said, I'm not getting to it soon.
<zakame> persia: hmmm, lemme think through it :)
<dholbach> statik: oh, forget that line, sorry
<statik> dholbach: no worries. I just uploaded a new version with all the other changes
<dholbach> rock and roll
* persia wishes someone would write a daemon packaging guide to answer common daemon related questions
<dholbach> statik: the package does not build for me anymore - seems it was a bad idea to add setup.py in a patch
<dholbach> statik: seems the patch target is called after the clean target, which uses setup.py already
<persia> mok0: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html is probably a good start.  Can you not work around with current /etc/services?
<statik> dholbach: oh! I did not anticipate that problem. I should have checked it in my pbuilder before uploading
<dholbach> statik: what I probably meant to write regarding pyversions is that I'd rather add a   XS-Python-Version   line to debian/control
<dholbach> statik: but that's fine
<mok0> It seems like I need a service name to put in inetd.conf
<statik> dholbach: I'm happy to do it with XS-Python-Version instead. Shall I do that and revert the change to setup.py?
<mok0> I can easily put it in via a script, but what happens if netbase is updated? Then things might break. 
<mok0> This is why xinetd is a Good Thing.
<dholbach> statik: yeah, try and see if that fixes the build again :)
<mok0> inetd is from the old times where sysadm edited all files manually
<mok0> We don't have triggers, do we?
<RainCT> (any Python guy here that can help me with some basic stuff?)
<mok0> RainCT: what do you need
<RainCT> mok0: if I've a program with many .py files that are imported into the main one (so they will go to /etc/share/programname/ when installed), how do I've to write the import in order that it gets them?
<mok0> pydir = "/whatever/whereever/pydirectory"
<mok0> if not pydir in sys.path:
<mok0> sys.path.insert(1,pydir)
<SlimG> What method is preferred when building a deb package from a makefile? I'm only familiar with building a dir that resembles the root, and run dpkg --build <folder> .   on it
<persia> SlimG: There are different schools of thought, but pbuilder, sbuild, and debuild predominate (or else I'm misunderstanding your question)
<RainCT> mok0: thanks
<SlimG> persia: I think thats is the ansewer to my vague question :) thanks!
<tobiasschulz> can someone check http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5488 ?
<persia> SlimG: Personally, I recommend sbuild if you can free up 10-20GiB of HD space, and pbuilder otherwise.
<man-di> SlimG: packaging got much more comfortable then "dpkg --build ..." in the last 10 years
<zakame> hehe
<SlimG> man-di: The reason I'm using dpkg --build is that I understand it, and I havent understood any other methods sofar, to me dpkg --build is easy
<SlimG> is debuild the thing I should use instead of dpkg --build?
<man-di> SlimG: yes
<persia> SlimG: What exactly are you seeking to accomplish?
<man-di> debuild is a wrapper around dpkg-buildpackage
<man-di> dpkg-buildpackage uses dpkg --build internally...
<zakame> debuild makes it easy to build as well as clean
<persia> On the other hand, debuild is not always best when one wants to compile something for a target other than the system on which the compile is performed.
<SlimG> I'm going to create a deb from a binary package without touching/editing it's files
<zakame> cross-compile?
<SlimG> it's closed source, I'm not intending it for the ubuntu archives
<persia> SlimG: Ah.  Do you have the source?
<SlimG> nope, if I had I would share
<persia> SlimG: Careful there - you can't always share source that you can read: always check your licenses.  In any case, for your special situation, `dpkg-deb -b` is probably easiest, although it's really not recommended practice.
<SlimG> persia: Sorry, to quick reply from me, I meant if I've created the source code myself
<SlimG> Isn't it possible for me to create a Makefile with a proper install section + DEBIAN/control file, and then use one of the deb builder apps to do the rest of the magic?
<persia> SlimG: If you have the source (even if it's closed), and are working with it on the local system, it's probably better to create a source package (see a packaging guide), and use debuild to make your binary.  If you create control and changelog, and have a good makefile, a one or two line CDBS debian/rules should do it all for you.
<persia> !packaging
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<SlimG> persia: I don't have access to the source, just binary
<SlimG> thanks for your help, I think I'll be able to manage my deb creation with all this info
* persia wishes someone hadn't deleted all the library transition pages from the wiki last month
* Hobbsee looks around guiltily
<Hobbsee> they told me it could be reverted, though
<persia> Hobbsee: I've just been taught how to search the deleted wiki :)
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<persia> superm1: bug 111797 was for the (previous) libflac transition (there's a new one now).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111797 in rezound "libflac++5c2 to libflac++5 transition" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111797
<imbrandon> moins & gnight all
<persia> umm..  nevermind.  it didn't actually search the deleted wiki :(
<persia> superm1: `grep-dctrl-FDependsxlibs</var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_breezy_main_binary-i386_Packages|grep-dctrl--not-FDependslibx11-6-sPackage` is the only grep-dctrl library checking snippet I can find lying around, but it's probably a good place to start.
<leonel> keescook:  I'm still fighting with dapper's  clamav    for  CVE 2006-6481  upstream  included new options in the clamscan  and clamav-milter  as  I understood   for  security bugs  only we can patch  but not add or remove  options  I'm I right ?
<ubotu> Clam AntiVirus (ClamAV) 0.88.6 allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (stack overflow and application crash) by wrapping many layers of multipart/mixed content around a document, a different vulnerability than CVE-2006-5874 and CVE-2006-6406. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2006-6481)
<SlimG> Could anyone help me to find the source of my character trouble? http://files.iggu.org/testmanual is a manpage that contains the english alphabet + 3 special norwegian characters (,  and ), these three characters displays fine with "cat" but "nroff" has problem displaying them correctly and Lintian gives me a warning, why's this?
<SlimG> testmanual is (or should be) UTF8 encoded
<SlimG> I've struggled with this issue for a long time, it would mean very much to me if someone wants to help me finding the source of the problem
<nixternal> MOTU: take a look at SRU bug 120056 please
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120056 in mga-vid "[SRU]  mga-vid-source does not build due to linux/config.h being dropped from >=2.6.19 kernel" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120056
<persia> nixternal: Please indicate why, and also, just subscribe u-u-s when requesting sponsorship :)
<nixternal> the bug report says why :)
<keescook> leonel: the goal is to only have minimal changes, yeah.
<persia> nixternal: You probably want feisty-proposed, and a ubuntu0.1 verision number, just to start.
<nixternal> in the changelog?
<nixternal> for feisty-proposed that is
<leonel> keescook: so  for 6481 does not  apply to dapper's ?
<leonel> keescook: I mean  for dapper that wont be patched ?
<persia> nixternal: Yep.  Once you've fixed that, use the normal sponsorship request process to get it uploaded.
<nixternal> OK, fixed
<keescook> leonel: we can patch it as much as we can.  adding new options seems like a bad idea, though.  better to try to solve the CVE in some other way
<nixternal> what is the "normal sponsorship request process" ? I always requested it here :)
<persia> nixternal: Great.  Now it's in queue, and someone will upload it soon :)
<nixternal> damn that was quick
<nixternal> you rock persia...don't know if I ever told you that :)
<leonel> keescook: debian added  those options
<beuno> quick question, why would I be getting this:  dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package is
<persia> nixternal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<persia> nixternal: The page needs a little work, but the idea is to subscribe UUS or UMS to request actions that only a developer may do (upload, archive request, etc.).
<keescook> leonel: if debian has a clean patch for it, then that should be okay.  the theory being that it has been tested and works for them.
<nixternal> OK, so I have already done that :)  Ya, I know to always add u-u-s accordingly..didn't know if there was more tot he process
<persia> nixternal: There's at least the whole other side of it :)
<persia> man-di: eclipse FTBFS.  Would you mind taking a look?
<hendrixski> quick question:  the friendly people at nexenta OS (which is Ubuntu on an OpenSolaris kernel)... how much overlap do their packages have with ours?
<Hobbsee> hendrixski: absolutely no idea - maybe ask them?
<hendrixski> Hobbsee, I stopped by their channel earlier today...'cause I'm interested in what the future of interchangeable kernels would look like... and they're really quiet 
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> i dont know of anything from ubuntu, but that doesnt maen there's nothing going on :)
<persia> hendrixski: You might try their mailing list, if they're not so active on IRC.
<hendrixski> Hobbsee, k... so, we probably don't share packagers and developers with them ... at least not on this channel?
<hendrixski> persia, good idea
<Hobbsee> hendrixski: well, *i* dont know of any - but i dont live here :)
<Hobbsee> and i'm merely one person
<hendrixski> Hobbsee, lol.  so like pitching a tent and just camping out here?
<hendrixski> :-)
<Hobbsee> hendrixski: hehe
<Hobbsee> hendrixski: sounds good
<Hobbsee> or ask in the ubuntu-motu mailing list
<hendrixski> I'll poke around there lists first.... as soon as I figure out why pbuilder is being mean to me
<tobiasschulz> may somebody check the last upload of that package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5474
<joejaxx> it has been quiet today
<ScottK-laptop> tobiasschulz: I'm looking at it.
<mok0> how can I list what a given package provides? (i.e. virtual packages)
<xxxxx1> mok0: apt-cache show [pkg] 
<mok0> yes, thx
<DktrKranz> if a package doesn't have a patch system by default, is it legal adding a new one if changes to upstream code are consistent?
<geser> sure, but don't introduce one if the changes for the patch system itself are larger than the patch
<DktrKranz> I'll try both ways
<DktrKranz> thanks
<hendrixski> umm... is it normal for pbuilder to take an hour to create a .deb?  I'm repackaging mythtv plugins to get experience with editing code in multiple .deb setups... and it feels like getting the dependencies took in every package known to man ... plus a few not yet discovered
<geser> hendrixski: it depends
<geser> pbuilder first fetches the needed debs, so this depends on your internet connection
<hendrixski> geser, full road runner... I'm just amazed at how many debs it was fetching
<geser> and then it depends on the package, there are packages which build in a couple minutes and then there are packages which need an hour
<geser> and this depends on how fast your machine is
<hendrixski> geser, ah Ok... so it's not completely abnormal that this could be taking me an hour   ... Ok
<geser> hendrixski: it caches the downloaded debs, so this part will be faster if you build again
<hendrixski> geser, awesome!!!
<hendrixski> that's pretty good news actually ... here I was getting all worried and stuff that I was doing something terrible to my system
<geser> pbuilder stores them in /var/cache/pbuilder/aptcache/
<shawarma> I'd like someone with experience in packaging python things to take a peek at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5484
<MichaelSpeer> Some time ago I was looking at launchpad.net and saw an error in the emacs-extra package that looked easy to hunt down.  I did so and submitted a patch in the comments at that time.  I saw the error still exists today, tracked it down to its real package ( php-mode ) and found it is not registered there.  Any ideas on my next move.  I don't know where to find a maintainer ( if one exists ).
<mok0> how can I list which packages _require_ a certain other (virtual) package?
* lamont kicks tads
<lamont> it's unfair that a no-change rebuild-upload is ftbfs.
<geser> MichaelSpeer: LP works on source packages. The source package for php-mode is emacs-extra: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emacs-extra/+bugs
<lifeless> lamont: lol :)
<lamont> lifeless: stupid dash
<lamont> I guess I'll actually test the build before I upload this time.
<lifeless> welcome to compatible
<geser> mok0: have you tried grep-dctrl?
<fdoving> mok0: does 'apt-cache rdepends <package> ' do what you want? 
<MichaelSpeer> geser : That is where I had submitted the bug.  I am reassigning the bug to 'ubuntu-universe-sponsers'.  That should notify them correctly, no?
<mok0> geser: I didn't know grep-dctrl, will look into it, thx!
<geser> MichaelSpeer: ubuntu-universe-sponsors sponsors only complete debdiffs (diff between two source packages)
<geser> if you manage to also create a debdifff for your patch, it will get sponsored
<mok0> fdoving: apt-cache rdepends works for me! :) 
* lamont wonders what mok0 was trying to solve
<mok0> Jeez I am finding loads of bugs in the various inetd packages...
* lamont hates not having scrollback
<mok0> lamont: I am testing out various inetd daemons but they don't install/uninstall cleanly
<lamont> mok0: "but why would you ever uninstall my beautiful inetd package???"
<mok0> lamont: why don't you have scrollback?
<lamont> machine was down.
<mok0> Hehe
<lamont> so I could go hit the archive, but I'm lazy
<mok0> lamont: if you ask me, they should all be banished from the distribution in favour of xinetd
<mok0> Anyway, none of them remove the links from /etc/rc*.d when uninstalled which I would call a BUG
<jekil> someone can review please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5450
<mok0> jekil: sorry not a MOTU 
<mok0> Actually, I don't who _is_ a MOTU around here. We're probably all hangarounds :-)
<mok0> a.k.a. prospects
* jrib pokes the motu's
<fdoving> mok0: removing =! purging, try purging the packages, see if all files vanish then.
<mok0> fdoving: ok
<mok0> fdoving: what maintainer script is run during purging?
<fdoving> mok0: prerm and postrm. there are no .prepurge or .postpurge
<mok0> But one thing is leaving config files around -- like for example the apache config file -- another thing is leaving those rc*.d links. 
<lamont> DH_OPTIONS='' dh_gencontrol -p$$p -u-v$(TADS2_DEB_VERSION)
<lamont> how very, uh, very.
<geser> mok0: http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/MaintainerScripts
<mok0> When you reboot, the system will still try to start those services long after they're gone
<mok0> The links should go when you remove the binary.
<beuno> anyone here running sid and gnome to help me debug a package?  it builds fine but I'm having a wierd problem with the menu entry
<geser> mok0: what gives "dpkg -l theinetdpkg"?
<man-di> mok0: dh_installinit is suppoed to add code to remove them on purge
<man-di> mok0: dh_installinit adds that code to prerm or postrm (one of both)
<fdoving> mok0: no, it won't cause problems, if it does, it's a bug in the init-script somehow. they will check whether the binaries it is planning to use exists or not, if it doesn't it exits silently and continues.
<mok0> geser: pn  netkit-inetd    <none>          (no description available)
<mok0> xinetd also has "pn"
<geser> then file a bug if files from netkit-inetd are still there
<geser> dito for xinetd
<fdoving> don't include the ones you modified manually, if any.
<mok0> Well it's kinda hard to say exactly _what_ I've done :-)
<mok0> Abused the package system, I guess
<fdoving> you can use 'debsums' to check the checksums of files in a package.
<mok0> ok
<fdoving> mok0: 'debsums -e netkit-inetd' for example.
<fdoving> -e tells it to only check config files.
<mok0> fdoving: debsums is cool! I am learning a lot tonight
<MichaelSpeer> geser : I've looked further into the motu system.  By FAQ I located the bug in the debian section of the package and uploaded a diff against it.  This is for the emacs-extra package.  If you could psare a glance, can you tell me if I have done exverything in line with the community procedures?
<beuno> what command should I use to add a menu entry in gnome that requieres super user priviledges?
<superm1_> siretart, ping
<Nafallo> gksu
<Nafallo> ...and with that, gnight ;-)
<geser> MichaelSpeer: you need to prepare a new source package. I haven't looked at the package yet but it should be only a changelog entry that's missing.
<kane77> how do I know what is build dependency and what is the other (library and runtime or whatever it is)?
<geser> MichaelSpeer: I will prepare a patched package in a few minutes
<mok0> build dependencies are those packages needed to compile yours, header files and such
<kane77> I used the script to find what it depends on
<mok0> run time dependencies are determined automagically by dh_shlibdeps
<kane77> oh so I only fill in the build deps?
<mok0> yes, but some packages are needed to compile, but not to run after compilation
<mok0> Build dependencies are almost always *-dev packages
* lamont fixes tads and re-uploads.   stupid packages mucking with versions
<mok0> Yes
<mok0> If you need something more, lintian will complain and tell you
<mok0> For example, if you use dpatch for patch management
<MichaelSpeer> geser : I am not trying to put any speed on this.  It is a low priority patch that ensures php-mode is selected when php files are opened.  My system is patched and anyone using it has been dealing for what looks like ( in the change log ) about five years.  Ever since the package was initially placed in unstable.
<mok0> you have to specify "dpatch" as a builddep
<MichaelSpeer> I was just ensuring I had gotten the motu team what they needed.  Mostly so I will know what to do in the future.
<geser> MichaelSpeer: there are round 100 MOTUs responsible for 10000 packages with the same amount of bugs. There more you can prepare the better for us. The best is a ready debdiff, which needs only a review and can be directly uploaded.
<MichaelSpeer> geser : Thank you for volunteering your time.  I'm sure I depend on many packages that exist only at the whim of yourself and those working with you.  As for a debdiff in this case, unless I read the information incorrectly I do not believe debdiffs apply to the debian folder, so that is why I created the normal diff.
<shawarma> MichaelSpeer: Well, when people want to suggest a fix, we always prefer a debdiff. You are probably thinking of using a patch system to patch things in debian/ which we don't want.
<crimsun> debdiffs certainly apply to debian/
<MichaelSpeer> shawarma : the problem exists due to a .el file in the ./debian/ folder.  Where would I submit changes to this part of the package if not launchpad.net?
<shawarma> MichaelSpeer: It's fine to attach a debdiff to the bug report as a patch.
<shawarma> MichaelSpeer: Not only "fine", actually. it would be frickin' excellent! :)
* shawarma wanders off for a little while
<xxxxx1> bye all
<MichaelSpeer> shawarma : Actually I was referring to your comment that using patch systems to alter items in the ./debian/ folder was inappropriate, and was asking where the appropriate place is.
<MichaelSpeer> shararma : please ignore my last comment, I had missed crimsons comment.
<MichaelSpeer> crimson : Thank you for clearing that up.
<mok0> I have now uploaded my final (???) version of wulfware to REVU, but it didn't create a debdiff??
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-13
* macd foo
* ScottK-laptop bar
* persia baz
<persia> crimsun: Does bug 74906 still need sponsorship?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 74906 in psycopg "python-psycopg: Missing dependencies? (libc6, libpq4)" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/74906
<crimsun> no
* persia unsubscribes
<crimsun> it may or may not need ubuntu-sru subscribed
<crimsun> our policy does not make it explicit, unfortunately
<persia> crimsun: What do you think is the right way to handle it?
<crimsun> I think subscribing ubuntu-sru is appropriate, but I want it formalized before I apply it 
<persia> crimsun: Is there a proposal under consideration?
<crimsun> not AFAIK
<persia> crimsun: Do you have time to write one up for Friday?  If not, please dump your basic thoughts somewhere, and I'll formalise it.
<crimsun> I can try, but I can't promise.  I'm travelling through July 5, and then I'll be away beginning July 9.
<persia> crimsun: Ah.  In that case, if you find a couple free minutes in the next couple days, please drop me a short email describing the scope, and I'll put something together.
<crimsun> my goodness, I really need to rename this cruft
<crimsun> too much *parser and *ui confusion
<SlimG> Lintian gives me this warning: can't find numbered character 248, 248 is the character "", so what's the problem? the number is correct too afaik
<SlimG> Its a norwegian latin1 encoded manpage
* persia thinks UTF-8  is &#241, which is preferable to latin1
<SlimG> persia: how do I insert the 241 char instead of the 248 char?
<persia> SlimG: My solution is usually to edit in a UTF-8 environment and either use a keymap that can type the character I want or something like the GNOME character picker applet.
<SlimG> would it work if I created the manpage in utf8 and use a utf8-2-latin1 tool (if I can find one)?
<persia> SlimG: Why do you need a latin1 manpage?
<SlimG> manpages within /usr/share/man/no is forced to be read as latin1
<persia> SlimG: In that case, you probably don't want UTF8 (what happened to UTF8ByDefault?), and 241 may not be correct.
<persia> SlimG: Separately, use iconv to convert between encodings.
<SlimG> according to http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/iso8859-1.html the "" character is number 248, I don't really understand why lintian complains about it beeing unable to find the numbered character 248
<SlimG> I'll google around to see if there's others with the same issue
<SlimG> persia: Might it have something to do with me using nn_NO.UTF-8 locale when running lintian?
<persia> SlimG: Um.  Probably.  I'm not sure why the default nn_NO locale is UTF8, and there is the restriction that "manpages within /usr/share/man/no is forced to be read as latin1".  This seems like a policy bug to me.
<SlimG> I'm pretty sure the main problem is the outdated "forced latin1 for norwegian manpages"
<persia> SlimG: Where is that policy stated?
<SlimG> mandb I think someone mentioned
<SlimG> I believe I've found the problem that triggers Lintians warning, Lintian get's confused if the manpage encoding and locale encoding isn't the same
<persia> SlimG: Ah.  That's probably the bug then.  As far as I can tell, manpages are transcoded to current locale when viewed (or at least by man: other tools may be buggy)
<SlimG> So in theory, if I were to run the Lintian check on this manpage at a computer with latin1 locale it would probably not mention any warning
<btm_> Is there a deb compatible version of ar kicking around out there?
<Hobbsee> btm_: it's not in ubuntu/debian.  possibly
<SlimG> persia: thanks for your help, I really aprechiate it
<persia> SlimG: Thanks for tracking down the source issue.  Please file a bug against lintian about this.
<btm_> Hobbsee:  It's my understanding that the bsd versions don't generate the filename/ that the included gnu version does, but oddly enough I don't see a bsd compatible binary on debian/ubuntu.
<persia> btm_: Take a look at binutils
<persia> Hobbsee: We need ar - it's the basis of .deb :)
<SlimG> persia: I'll see if I can find the lintian bug-tracker and file a bug
<Hobbsee> oh, right
<persia> SlimG: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lintian/ is a good place to start, and sending something to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=lintian might also be appropriate (but search those bugs first).
<btm_> persia: Yes, binutils has ar, but it's GNU ar which is not 100% deb compatible.
<persia> btm_: Ah.  Last time I actually used ar was a few years ago, and it was enough to address my severely broken bootstrap issues then, but I believe you if you say that it's not 100% compatible.
<btm_> persia: if you head -2 a deb, you'll see that debian-binary does not have a slash after it. but if you 'ar r test.r somerandomfile ; head -2 test.ar' you'll see that somerandomfile has a slash after it.
<SlimG> persia: lintian has no open bugs in launchpad... not bad :)
<btm_> which makes apt-extracttemplates and others unhappy.
<StevenK> I don't think Linda does, either.
<StevenK> Actually, it does.
<StevenK> And I think it's fixed in the version I should really get around to uploading.
<persia> btm_: Hmm..  That's probably a bug then.  Given that we ship GNU ar by default, we probably want GNU ar style .debs, but it's the sort of bug is exremely unlikely to be fixed in Ubuntu - it needs a Debian solution, if any.
<btm_> persia: I'll ask around debian, thanks.
<aanderse> RAOF: thank you for your ubuntuforums response, but i would also like to know if there any motu effort to get precompiled kqemu kernel modules underway?
* persia notes that the kernel is in main
* Hobbsee taps fingers and notes that she's lost her excuse for ignoring everything in main now...
<jsgotangco> haha
<Hobbsee> hiya spam
<persia> Hobbsee: I suggest it's still safe to ignore the kernel for a little while yet :)
<Hobbsee> oh good
<RAOF> You could *possibly* file a wishlist bug against linux-ubuntu-modules, asking for the kqemu module to be added, but I really don't know what the response would be
<Hobbsee> then again, i touched casper a week ago...
<persia> heh
<aanderse> hmmm, because of lack of interest?
<persia> aanderse: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeamBugPolicies and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelPatches should give you some understanding of the response
<aanderse> thanks, i'll read up on that
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: that's fine, i'll just hassle you to do stuff in main
<persia> ajmitch: about gnue-?
<ajmitch> persia: no
<persia> ajmitch: OK.  I'll take your name off the assignment list on the migration page then.  Thanks.
<ajmitch> whatever
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hah.  dream on.  you have your own powers
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: nah, i feel like just removing myself
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: not allowed.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: unless you'll contribute more to debian and ubuntu as a result
<ajmitch> is allowed, actually
<Fujitsu> Hm, I see that Canonical is advertising bzr through AdWords.
<ajmitch> funny
<Fujitsu> ?
<jsgotangco> really?
<zakame> good day MOTUs! :D
<Hobbsee> hiya zakame 
<zakame> hello Hobbsee
<persia> Hi zakame
<zakame> heya persia
<Hobbsee> zakame: did you fall off the planet?
<persia> zakame: How active is ~motujava?
<zakame> persia: not really active, sadly, but man-di just joined, and I made it an open team now
<zakame> Hobbsee: er?
<Hobbsee> zakame: just hadnt seen you around much, prior to yesterday
<zakame> Hobbsee: true, I was a bit sick last week, and been dabbling on other stuffs the previous
<persia> zakame: Ah.  I'm just looking at the team wiki page, and noticed a request for help.  I'd like to recommend https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/CreatingTeamGuide as a good source of team building information.
<Hobbsee> ahh.  
<zakame> persia: coolness!  thanks for that!
<persia> zakame: That itself is a work-in-progress, so if you find anything new, please also add it there.
<zakame> so is life, work-in-progress :D
<persia> :)
<jussi01> hello all
<persia> hi jussi01
<jussi01> persia: could you take a look at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25370/
<leonel> motujava ??  that sounds  good ..
<persia> leonel: It is good.  Warm and rich.  Sign up now, get it on the ground floor, and great things will happen :)
<leonel> persia: where  is the motujava party ?
<jussi01> persia: Im not a very good email writer...
<persia> leonel: Ask the team leader: zakame
<leonel> found it !
<leonel> motu java growers ?
<zakame> yep
<leonel> what about   ubuntu-java ?
<zakame> still reforming it though
<leonel> is that another ?
<persia> jussi01: In general, nice work.  There's a couple spelling issues, and I recommend avoiding things like "you need to {foo}" in favour of things like the policy for Ubuntu prevents my packaging because {foo} has not been done.
<jussi01> persia: ok. would you mind making a few changes to the paste? (do you have time?)
<persia> jussi01: Sure.  Do you want 1) comments, 2) minor edits, or 3) a rewrite?
<leonel> zakame: what's to be done with  motujava ?
<zakame> leonel: at the moment, merging java packages
* persia would like to see a clearer guide on packaging java packages as well, if anyone has time
<StevenK> persia: Okay. "Don't"
<StevenK> :-P
<leonel> zakame: ok let's learn to merge   I have  dbmail pending to merge  but  I'm stuck  with  some dapper's  clamav  bugs  
<jussi01> persia: well any of the above is good, though a rewrite would be nice.... I'm just not a very good email composer...
<persia> StevenK: Why not?  Upstream usually works with a direct download, but it's messy, and doesn't generaly work for all system users.
<StevenK> persia: I'm just bitter because I dislike Java. :-)
<persia> jussi01: Sure - that will take a little longer.  Please review it carefully, as my style is surely different than yours.
<zakame> leonel: did you look at http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html and grab-merge.sh'd the package?
<leonel> zakame:  yes   
<persia> StevenK: From what I understand, java packages should be safe to ignore for everyone else, so you can be safe.
<jussi01> persia: sure, I will. Im on holidays so I have a fair bit of time, but I am AFK for periods so if i dont answer you know why.
<leonel> zakame: but Let me finish first  with  clamav bugs  I have pending   to start  merging  dbmail and  java packages  
<zakame> leonel: ah, cool
<persia> jussi01: No worries.  Are you around for a while now?  "a little longer" in this case is probably <15 minutes.
<zakame> waah I'm out of HD space
<jussi01> persia: Im going to grab some lunch, but yes, i will be around for the next hour or so.
<leonel> zakame:  I really feel  a little bad  because It's been 1 week long to sort out the clamav bugs in dapper
<zakame> leonel: why? what's been bugging clamav?
<jmg> update
<Amaranth> so it's not possible to snag a package from the NEW queue?
<jmg> zakame: apt-get autoclean
<zakame> jmg: yeah, doing that now
<jmg> :)
<leonel> zakame:  3 cve   which 2 have the fix in the  90.x version of clamav  and need to patch for  the 88.2  in dapper   and the 90.x  has changed  some things     and I need to figure out what's for those CVEs 
<zakame> waah, that's quite a lot
<jmg> leonel: why cant you use the 90.x in dapper?
<leonel> jmg:  I do but can't be uploaded  to  dapper-security   and not everyone has  backports enabled   and  there are some packages that would break with 0.90.3 
<jmg> leonel: that sucks
<leonel> and it's an important package to keep updated with the latest version
<leonel> and theres a  message from freshclam  that says  that the clamav  package  is  outdated  even if it's patched    and that  gives some confusion to endusers
<jmg> yeah
<leonel> well got to go  
<leonel> for now ...
<leonel> apt-get remove leonel
<leonel> good  night !
<persia> jussi01: I'd probably send something like http://pastebin.ca/563393, but that itself would benefit from a spell check, and definitely needs real URLs :)
<persia> jussi01: rather http://pastebin.ca/563395: "confirm" is not an ideal word there.
<tonyyarusso> Does Gutsy sync _every_ package from Debian unstable, or would it be wise to request a specific one?
<jussi01> persia: second url doesnt work. but the firs one looks quite nice :D
<Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: everything that's not blacklisted, or has ubuntu changes
<persia> jussi01: It's your IRC client.  Drop the ":"
<tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: blacklisted?
<tonyyarusso> (specifically shell-fm, just found it)
<jussi01> persia: hehe... didnt see that
<StevenK> tonyyarusso: There's a list of package which are never going to be sync'd. Such as the d-i kernels and so on
<StevenK> packages, even
<tonyyarusso> ah
<persia> tonyyarusso: Also, Ubuntu only auto-syncs new packages from Debian main.  If you need something new from contrib or non-free, that's a manual request.
<tonyyarusso> Hobbsee, persia: Those two statements seem to be in conflict with each other.
<ajmitch> tonyyarusso: everything in debian main that's not blacklisted or has ubuntu changes
<ajmitch> and providing that it's not past DebianImportFreeze
<persia> tonyyarusso: OK.  Ubuntu syncs everything from Debian main, unless there it has been blacklisted or has Ubuntu changes, and anything already in Ubuntu from contrib and non-free unless there are Ubuntu changes.
<Hobbsee> sorry, everything in debian main
<persia> Plus what ajmitch said
<tonyyarusso> okay, then I likely need to make a request for this.
<ajmitch> tonyyarusso: new packages in debian still get checked to a degree before being imported into ubuntu
<ajmitch> tonyyarusso: why?
<ajmitch>   shell-fm | 0.2+svn20070605.r215-1 | http://apt-proxy gutsy/universe Sources
<ajmitch>   shell-fm | 0.2+svn20070605.r215-1 | http://apt-proxy sid/main Sources
<StevenK> Twitch. apt-proxy
<jussi01> persia: what is the exactloaction for the dfsg?
<StevenK> It's linked off http://www.debian.org/devel/
<tonyyarusso> ajmitch: never mind then :)  Hadn't actually gotten to the checking gutsy step, but was assuming until proven wrong that it hadn't found its way there yet.
<tonyyarusso> cool
<persia> tonyyarusso: Generally, new packages are only in the current development release.  Once should check there first.
<StevenK> persia =~ s/\(On\)ce/\1e/
<tonyyarusso> persia: Well yeah, was getting there - was a passing thought so far ;)
<crimsun> persia: once-overed. http://pastebin.ca/563406
<persia> StevenK: s/ce/e/ is cleaner for that string :)
<StevenK> persia: Meh. :-)
<StevenK> jussi01: http://www.debian.org/social_contract
<persia> jussi01: See crimsun's updates - it's even better :)
<StevenK> jussi01: (For the DFSG)
<jussi01> alright thank you all. Ill put it together and you can comment then :D
<jussi01> persia: http://pastebin.ca/563425
<persia> jussi01: Good links :)  My only two thoughts for changes would be 1) Consider "I would like to solicit" rather than "I am soliciting" in the first paragraph, and 2) prefixing the second paragraph with "Also, ", "In addition, ", or "Separately, ".  I think these are edits to my text rather than yours :)
<jussi01> persia: http://pastebin.ca/563443
<persia> jussi01: Looks fine to me.  Does it still match what you wanted to send, and are you set to follow up on responses?
<jussi01> persia: it says exactly what i wanted, in words I couldnt have put together :D thanks! When I get a response, If I cant deal with it Ill know where to come ;)
<persia> jussi01: Great.  Good luck.
<jussi01> ok, lets see everyones investigative skills... someone find me the authors email address... http://genpo.sourceforge.net/ I cant find it anywhere....
<jussi01> nm... found it on the ml... finally
<persia> jussi01: It's always right after you give up :)
<jussi01> lol, yeah
<jussi01> although it doesnt give me the whole address grrr...
<StevenK>   merronys at users.sourceforge.net
<jussi01> StevenK: thank you... :D
<jussi01> SENT!! :D
<zakame> anyone working on azureus merge?
<StevenK> zakame: There be dragons with that merge. Commonly called users.
<zakame> StevenK: wahehehe
<zakame> yo jsgotangco
<zakame> checking LP bugs now, 16 uncon
<man-di> yes, azurues is evil
<man-di> I fight with it in debian
<man-di> zakame: I feel your pain
<zakame> wah, there's even a new-version wishlist
<man-di> zakame: the debian maintainer of it is on vacation...
<zakame> oh, shaun jackman
<zakame> I remember him, I adopted robotour from him (now it has a couple of RCs related to 64-bit machines)
<zakame> can't seem to squash it though
<persia> man-di: If you have a bit of time, could you please take a look at the build logs for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eclipse/3.2.2-1
<minghua> did anybody get azureus working with GCC java?
<minghua> I only heard sad stories, and all the conclusions seem to be "use Sun java and everything will be fine"
<man-di> persia: yes, I'm already on that one
<persia> man-di: Great.  Thanks.
<man-di> hmmm
<superm1> minghua, there is a package that is azureus-gij i believe
<superm1> that uses GCC java
<superm1> or azureus-gcj
<minghua> superm1: Thanks.  I still don't quite understand though (but that's okay, I don't want to become a java packaging expert), as azureus-gcj's package description says "This package contains the natively compiled code for use by gij."
<superm1> minghua, my understanding is gij byte compiles the java code
<superm1> so its supposed to be a little faster
<superm1> than purely interpreted java code
<man-di> gcj can compile bytecode to native
<man-di> minghua: if you have questions, ask me
* man-di is debian java maintainer 
<superm1> man-di, so it really is a lot faster when gcj handles the compilation?
<superm1> rather than using sun java to interpret it?
<minghua> I see.  So besides "using Sun java" and "using GCC java", there is a third option of "using native compiled version"?
<minghua> man-di: Oh, glad to see you here.  Not many MOTUs dare to touch azureus in Ubuntu, it seems.
<man-di> minghua: same for DDs
<man-di> minghua: I fight with debian maintainer of azurues for a long time to make it correct
<man-di> superm1: its not faster then SUN, its faster then interpreted with gcj
<man-di> superm1: the interpreter of gcj is *really* slow
<man-di> superm1: we compile to native to get acceptable speed with a runtime that is in main
<man-di> superm1: so far SUN JDK is not free
<superm1> man-di, but then is there still an option to run with sun though?
<superm1> or is that forfeited by doing this
<man-di> superm1: sure
<man-di> you can use whatever runtime you prefer
<man-di> superm1: the native gcj libs are just additional
<superm1> ah i've wondered how that worked with it
<man-di> and only used when gcj is used as runtime
<superm1> that's pretty neat then
<man-di> and kaffe has some code that could use them hypothetically
<man-di> superm1: think of it as native jars
<man-di> I need to leave now, cu later
<superm1> ok. thanks a lot man-di you really helped clear that up :)
<minghua> man-di: so even if the azureus package is built with GCC java, the bytecode version can run on all VMs, either Sun java or e.g. kaffe?
<dholbach> good morning
<gnomefreak> good morning
<dholbach> hey gnomefreak
<RAOF> Good afternoon dholbach, gnomefreak 
<dholbach> hey RAOF
<gnomefreak> hi RAOF 
<zakame> good day folks
<gnomefreak> hi zakame 
* persia remarks that "In Progress" bugs that are currently being sponsored probably shouldn't still be subscribed to U-U-S :)
<man-di> minghua: yes, it does
<man-di> minghua: thats the cool thing about java bytecode being arch independant
<man-di> minghua: and in fact GCJ was designed to be interoperable with SUN Java
<minghua> man-di: thanks for the explanation
<man-di> minghua: no problem, I help you and you help me some day
<persia> Is matti lindell around?
<crimsun> no, he's not.
<persia> crimsun: Thanks (I guess)
<jussi01> lol
<crimsun> well, I can't magically make him appear
<man-di> crimsun: did you lost your magical powers? damn
<persia> crimsun: Even for a pony?
<crimsun> never had them.  You need to see Hobbsee for that.
* Hobbsee looks in
<jussi01> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hiya
<RAOF> Yay!  Recent builds of gnash!
<crimsun> well, now that we have GSt 0.10.13, this crossfading in RB should be interestin.g
<zakame> gnashing of streams
<RAOF> crimsun: s/interesting/works with wavpack files/?
<RAOF> I refer of course to bug #119044
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119044 in rhythmbox "Crossfading engine never starts playing wavpack files" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119044
<crimsun> it's not limited to wavpack IME
<RAOF> wavpack was the only codec I tried that didn't work.
<crimsun> doesn't work at all on my files
<RAOF> I don't think I have a wma encoder to duplicate the original upstream bug.
<crimsun> I do get a nice xkill or pkill exercise, however.
<RAOF> Really?  It actually *hangs* RB for you?
<crimsun> yes, massively.
<RAOF> Isn't software wonderful.
* RAOF tries it with ALSA rather than Pulse
<RAOF> Well, it doesn't work, but it doesn't hang.  Huzzah for system differences.
<crimsun> hangs with pulse removed from the equation, too
* RAOF hums the tune from the twilight zone
<dholbach> wow - we have LOADS of bugs marked as 'upgrade'
<dholbach> most of them should be easy to fix
<man-di> bluekuja: ping
<bluekuja> man-di, pong
<bluekuja> :)
<man-di> bluekuja: why did you reintroduced https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcommons-dbcp-java/+bug/81876 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 81876 in libcommons-dbcp-java "Dependency on java2-runtime removed" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<man-di> bluekuja: a sync of the package would have been enough to get everything fixed
* \sh is preparing some debian/ubuntu packages for opensuses buildservice software...cool thing
<man-di> bluekuja: that was why I uploaded -5 to Debian at all
<bluekuja> man-di, it seems it wasnt removed in previous version
<bluekuja> and nothing was marked in changelog
<bluekuja> didnt see that bug
<man-di> bluekuja: it MAY not be removed
<man-di> bluekuja: it was not in changelog because it was no Debian bug
<man-di> bluekuja: only Ubuntu
<bluekuja> man-di, yeah, badly I didnt see that bug in LP
<bluekuja> man-di, we will sync next release then
<icf7> Somebody in here who'd like to review (and maybe advocate) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5467 (Sunflow rendering system, http://sunflow.sf.net ) ?
<doko> bluekuja: about the various scim merges; please go ahead with the merges; if you do have questions, ask on this channel, or use REVU to get feedback
<bluekuja> doko: great, thanks :)
<DktrKranz> could you please clarify me a bit about bug #119936?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119936 in aptoncd "Please fakesync aptoncd 0.1-1" [Wishlist,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119936
<pochu> DktrKranz: persia means if it's a Fakesync, it should just be the debian package with a changelog entry saying "Fakesync", but no other changes.
<DktrKranz> this has different upstream tarball, it's unclear to me how to handle a fakesync that way
<shawarma> Um... That's what fakesync means, afaik.
<pochu> DktrKranz: with a different tarball you mean different content, or just different md5sum?
<DktrKranz> different md5sums
<DktrKranz> IIRC
<pochu> If the latter, use the ubuntu one, but use the debian/ dir.
<pochu> And add a changelog entry saying it's fakesync, and that it can be synced with the next upstream release :)
<DktrKranz> it has no ubuntu changes to be kept
<shawarma> A sync is just a copy of the debian package with no changes at all. A fakesync is the same only we use our own orig.tar.gz (because they differ for some reason), but Debian's diff.gz. In that case we add an entry to the changelog saying that it was fakesync'ed.
<DktrKranz> so a it should be a fakesync
<DktrKranz> I'm curious to know how this can be managed during upload
<DktrKranz> as a normal debdiff?
<shawarma> Uploads are never actually done with debdiffs.
<shawarma> A fakesync (if the tarballs are identical, but with different md5sums (due to timestamps or whatever)) can be done by fetching the source of the debian package, putting our orig.tar.gz where the debian one was, add an entry to the changelog, debuild -S, upload.
<DktrKranz> and what if the two packages are not the same (md5 and content)?
<shawarma> DktrKranz: that's difficult to say anything general about, really.
<shawarma> DktrKranz: It depends on how the differ.
<shawarma> they*
<DktrKranz> could it be case of a merge?
<DktrKranz> anyway, I'll check orig.tar.gzs to see if they are identical in content
<DktrKranz> if so, I will ask for a fakesync following your advices
<DktrKranz> thanks for now :)
<shawarma> -ENOCOFFEE
<xxxxx1> morning people
<Pumpernickel> Wow... someone put this guy out of his misery.
<AndyP> !ops
<ubotu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, or fbond
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o imbrandon]  by ChanServ
<xxxxx1> wow
* man-di thinks icf7_ might have a problem
<elkbuntu> imbrandon?
<imbrandon> my aliases are borked
<imbrandon>  /kb *@WL-POOL04-35.UNI-MUENSTER.DE
<imbrandon> err
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o elkbuntu]  by ChanServ
<elkbuntu> shit... he leaves too quick
<Fujitsu> elkbuntu: Hahah.
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b *!*@wl-pool04-35.uni-muenster.de]  by elkbuntu
<xxxxx1> \o/
<fernando> elkbuntu: congrats
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Thanks!
<elkbuntu> and makes things scroll so i cant copy the damn hostmask
<Pumpernickel> ...and there was much rejoicing.
* AndyP hugs elkbuntu 
* Fujitsu applauds elkbuntu
<Fujitsu> ... and Pumpernickel.
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o imbrandon]  by imbrandon
<elkbuntu> not even a registered nick
<imbrandon> thanks elk /me goes to fix his aliases
<elkbuntu> i'll hang on to the ops for a bit, he might find a new hostmask
<imbrandon> i doubt it was intentional
<imbrandon> but okies
<imbrandon> probably a bitchx client on the uni computer and he's not even there
<imbrandon> thats trying to constantly reconnect
<imbrandon> heya BearPerson 
<BearPerson> heya
<elkbuntu> BearPerson, we fixed it, thanks for coming though
<imbrandon> i was just a tad slow, aliases wasent setup apparently
<imbrandon> :)
<BearPerson> anytime
* imbrandon goes back to idleing
<zul> hey imbrandon 
<imbrandon> heya zul 
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<MehdiHassanpour> hi, I need some help t o create a font .deb package... any guide/howto ?
<DarkSun88> MehdiHassanpour: Try to read this page: http://www.debian.org/devel/index.en.html
<Hobbsee> MehdiHassanpour: follow the packaging guide, usually works
<Q-FUNK> MehdiHassanpour: the general guidelines abotu creating packages apply.  for fonts, the main issue is defoma support and installing the fonts in the right directory.
<MehdiHassanpour> Hobbsee, should I write a Makefile to copy ttf files in appropriate folder ?
<Hobbsee> i have no idea, i dont touch fonts.  probably for good reason
<Q-FUNK> MehdiHassanpour: are these just TTF font files and a copyright file?
<MehdiHassanpour> Q-FUNK, yes, they are TTF files
<Q-FUNK> MehdiHassanpour: ok.  does the upstream archive include proper copyrights and does thelicense meet free software guidelines?
<MehdiHassanpour> Q-FUNK, I want to create it for our company local use.
<MehdiHassanpour> Q-FUNK, we've designed them for our local use and will not be published for public use
<Q-FUNK> MehdiHassanpour: ok.  if it's not for uploading to MOTU, then all you need to worry about is installng fonts in the right directory.  using cdbs with the debhelper rule, you just need to fill debian/install content.
<Q-FUNK> MehdiHassanpour: so, as Hobbsee said, standard packaging guidelines apply for making a good package.  
<MehdiHassanpour> Q-FUNK, ok ty. what about the defoma support ?
<Q-FUNK> MehdiHassanpour: you generally want fonts to successfully register with defoma and pango.
<jussi01> hello all
<persia> bluekuja: When requesting syncs, please list the Ubuntu changes from the current version, and indicate why they no longer apply to the new Debian version.
<siretart> persia: hi there!
<persia> siretart: Good day.
<siretart> persia: btw, did Hobbsee tell you that I created an account for you on tiber?
<persia> siretart: No.  Was she so assigned?
<persia> siretart: Also, thanks.  Is there a guide on using it?
<siretart> persia: she said that you were interested in helping out with revu by resyncing keyring and rechecking the incoming queue
<siretart> persia: ssh to 'tiber.tauware.de', read /etc/motd, and check ~ftp/incoming
<persia> siretart: Those are both things I'd certainly be willing to do - I often tell people to wait when they have that type of request.
<siretart> persia: I'd suggest that you look a bit around and see what you can do there. If you need additional permissions, tell me what you need
<persia> siretart: Thanks.  I can see how to resync, and I'm guessing I can just rm to clean incoming, right?
<siretart> persia: right. or mv from ~ftp/incoming/rejected to ~ftp/incoming
<siretart> the process script is run every 5 minutes from revu1's crontab
<persia> siretart: mv from rejected?  When is that good?
<siretart> when the uploader wasn't in the keyring at the time the process script ra
<siretart> n
<svschwart1> hello :) I've installed Gusty Tribe1, wanted to try fresh KVM, used this howto https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM 
<persia> siretart: Ah.  That makes sense.  Thanks for the explanation.
<Hobbsee> siretart: no.  i suck.
<svschwart1> but when I want to start my VM it says 
<svschwart1> user@amd1-desktop:~$ kvm -no-acpi -m 384 -cdrom /dev/cdrom windows.img
<svschwart1> kvm_create_vm: Invalid argument
<svschwart1> Could not create KVM context
<Hobbsee> persia: siretart created you an account on tiber.
<Hobbsee> siretart: consider it done :P
<xxxxx1> svschwart1: try #ubuntu
<persia> Hobbsee: Thanks for telling me :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<xxxxx1> hello siretart :)
<siretart> Hobbsee: :)
<siretart> xxxxx1: *wave*
<Hobbsee> :)
<persia> siretart: After a little exploration and testing, I appear to be able to assist with minor administrative tasks.  Thanks again.
<RainCT> Hi
<tobiasschulz> can someone check and perhaps advocate http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5503 ?
<persia> tobiasschulz: There's a bunch of outstanding lintian and linda errors.  Are you having difficulties with these?
<tobiasschulz> what does litian exactly?
<man-di> tobiasschulz: checks for common mistakes in packages
<geser> lintian and linda check if your package conforms to the Debian policy
<man-di> tobiasschulz: another tool to install is linda, does basically the same
<tobiasschulz> ans what are tehre errors?
<persia> tobiasschulz: lintian and linda are package checkers.  They both check either source or binary packages, and indicate issues that might be found.  Try `lintian -iIv *.changes` or `linda -v -f long -t E,I,W,X *.changes` to get some information on things that need work.
<man-di> tobiasschulz: note that both show slightly different issues
<man-di> tobiasschulz: having both installed at debuild-time you will get their ouptut automatically at the end of your build
<tobiasschulz> ok
<persia> tobiasschulz: You can see some of the errors listed from the lintian and linda links on the URL you posted, but you'll likely get better information from running it locally.
<persia> man-di: Not quite - default debuild behaviour in current Ubuntu doesn't call linda.
<man-di> persia: really? oh, in debian its on by default
<persia> man-di: That's my experience.  I haven't hunted the relevant patches.
<persia> man-di: Also, even if it were enabled, it doesn't have all the flags I listed above, which are encouraged for REVU, as the packages should be perfect, not just compliant :)
<man-di> persia: these flags are all default on debian afaik
<man-di> I thought ubuntu migth do the same, I was wrong...
<persia> man-di: All of them?  Hmmm...
<man-di> no, not -i for lintian
<man-di> and not -f long for linda
<man-di> but the rest
<bluekuja> heya persia 
<persia> bluekuja: Hey.
<bluekuja> persia: yeah, gonna add them now
<persia> bluekuja: Great.  Thanks.  Please update the descriptions, rather than adding a comment.
<bluekuja> ok
<geser> Hi bluekuja
<bluekuja> heya geser 
<bluekuja> persia: I need to leave for a while, when I'm back gonna change that desc
<bluekuja> ;)
<persia> bluekuja: OK.  I'll unsubscribe for a while then.  Please resub when you're done.  Thanks again.
<bluekuja> persia: ok, sounds great! ;)
<bluekuja> cya later
<RainCT> nixternal: hi. is plucker this? plkr.org :P
<persia> RainCT: Yes.
<persia> RainCT: Do you have a few free minutes?
<RainCT> persia: well.. yes :)
<persia> RainCT: Would you mind cleaning up the icon path for bug 93894, or am I misremembering that you use KDE?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 93894 in dvdrip "icon for dvdrip missing in KDE" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93894
<RainCT> persia: I use GNOME; don't like most KDE application, except for a few
<persia> RainCT: My apologies then :)  I'll try to remember correctly in the future.
<shawarma> If anyone (preferably someone with perl packaging skills) is bored, there's a bunch of stuff on REVU that needs an ACK. (Look for soren@ubuntu.com)
<persia> shawarma: Is there a specific package that you'd like reviewed?
<shawarma> persia: Well.. the system-config-printer would be nice to get off my todo list.
<shawarma> persia: The order of the rest of them (the perl ones) does not matter.
<persia> shawarma: I'll look at that first then.  Also, this'll be my first peer review: do I ack, and you archive upload, or is there a different process?
<RainCT> persia: do you know on what category plucker would go?
<shawarma> persia: You ack, I upload, I archive.
<persia> shawarma: That's easiest for me :)  Thanks for the explanation.
<persia> RainCT: No strong idea really.  Utility maybe as a main?
<shawarma> RainCT: plucker is already in the archive?
<shawarma> !plucker
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about plucker - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<shawarma> !pkg plucker
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pkg plucker - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<shawarma> bah.
<persia> shawarma: I'm not seeing system-config-printer.  Do you mean system-config-samba?
<RainCT> persia: okay, that's what I think too, thanks
<shawarma> persia: Yes. I'm an idiot.
<persia> !info plucker
<ubotu> plucker: Pluck stuff from the web and read it on your PalmOS device. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.8-20ubuntu1 (feisty), package size 455 kB, installed size 1304 kB
<persia> shawarma: OK.  Just like to confirm these things :)
<shawarma> persia: thanks. :)
<shawarma> RainCT: ^^ Is that the same plucker?
<RainCT> shawarma: yes
<shawarma> RainCT: It's currently in universe/otherosfs.
* persia dreams of a 1.9.0 prerelease snapshot
<persia> shawarma: Category section for .desktop file for plucker-desktop (the GUI interface).
<shawarma> Oh!
* shawarma shuts up
* persia enjoys the special secret context exchange of those who patch desktop-file-utils
<persia> shawarma: Sorry, but I'm not comfortable ACKing an rpm conversion with neither of debian/README.Debian-source nor debian/rules: get-orig-source: :)
<persia> s/:)/:(/
<statik> anyone feel like doing a review of a simple python module (my first package?) I think I've addressed all the comments that were made so far in the version that I uploaded yesterday
<statik> python-coverage, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5490
<siretart> TheMuso: do you have experience with using dogtail?
* persia looks at perl stuff
<siretart> persia: you are a perl guy?
<persia> siretart: I've written lots of perl code, and I've explored a fair amount of perl packaging, but I wouldn't necessarily categorise myself as a "perl guy".
<siretart> persia: I'm looking for a framework for testing GUIs, preferably one in perl. can you recommend something?
<persia> siretart: That's much more perl-y than I get.  Sorry :(
<shawarma> persia: Fair enough.
<persia> shawarma: For the perl packages, you don't seem to claim copyright on the packaging ("The Debian packaging is copyright $year $packager, and is licensed under $license, see above", at least for the case where the packaging carries an identical license).
<shawarma> persia: That may very well be true..
<persia> Is it uncopyrighted?  I think that requires explicit disclaimer is most common jurisdictions (and certainly under WTO practices).
<persia> shawarma: Other than the copyright notes, all the perl stuff looks fairly standard and clean.  I've not actually tested the build & run the packaging checks yet, as copyright is enough to block me.
<shawarma> persia: Fair enough. system-config-samba updated, perl packages on their way.
<persia> shawarma: Thanks.  I'll take another look.
<RainCT> how can I uuencode a file? uuencode file.png isn't doing anything :S
<shawarma> uuencode file.png file.png
<shawarma> no shit :)
<shawarma> The first file.png tell uuencode what the name of it should be in the uuencoded stuff, while the second arg tells it where to get the data.
<RainCT> thanks. I think I tried that before, strange xD
<geser> doesn't this destroy file.png?
<shawarma> geser: uu*en*ode?
<persia> geser: No.  The name is just a name, and the .uu is added automatically.  It's counterintuitive, but it works.
<LucidFox> is it wise to add a photo to my public key?
<shawarma> persia: The perl updated  perl packages should be there in a minute or so. thanks a bunch for reviewing them. 
<shawarma> persia: I'm running off for a few hours, but I'll stay online, so just shout if anything else is wrong. Thanks!
<LucidFox> Also, what will happen if I edit the key (eg. add a new UID) after someone signs it? Will they have to re-sign it?
<persia> LucidFox: Not everything supports it, but if you do, people will see the picture when they get the key.  It's the same question as "it is best to carry a photo ID, or a non-photo ID", except that in this case, non-photo is more common.
<persia> shawarma: I'll send you and email with the results of my checks.  Everything is refreshed?
<shawarma> persia: Looks like it.
<shawarma> persia: Thanks!
<persia> shawarma: Happy to help.  I like new packages.
<LucidFox> Also, after I upload the updated key to the keyserver, will I have to update it on Launchpad as well?
<RainCT> eh.. does 1.8-21ubuntu1 mean that 21 .deb's were created for the same version in Debian? :S
<LucidFox> RainCT> yes
<persia> RainCT: Upstream has been working on 1.9 for a long time, and hasn't updated 1.8, although a lot of bugfix patches have been extracted over the past few years.  Packages with active upstreams rarely reach that.
<RainCT> ok thanks
<persia> RainCT: Why the sudden interest in plucker?
<RainCT> persia: I'm not interested in it, just trying to fix the bug :p
<RainCT> can you check the debdiff please? bug 118361
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118361 in plucker "plucker-desktop: Missing menu entry" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118361
<RainCT> (new debdiff - copy-paste is bad lol)
<persia> RainCT: Ah.  I wasn't sure that we should fix that, but looking at the bug, I see you're already coordinating with the right person :)  Preparing to redownload the debdiff now...
<bmm> Any MOTU: after fixing some details, ccbuild http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5511 is looking for advocates for the newest version.
<RainCT> persia: (where `cp debian/plucker.desktop debian/usr/share/applications' it's `debian/plucker.desktop' :p)
<RainCT> * debian/plucker-desktop.desktop
<persia> RainCT: Given that the package already uses dh_install, please use that for the .desktop and icon installation.  Also, the .desktop won't actually work, as plucker-desktop has been recently dropped: you want to have that install in the plucker-desktop binary package, which doesn't currently exist.
<persia> RainCT: Check with nixternal, but I suspect providing the .desktop, icons, and documenting the install locations would be easier to merge (unless you can get a pre-release package for 1.9.0, in which case patching against that might be good).
<RainCT> persia: ok, I've uploaded everything and will wait to see what nixternals says. Thanks
<RainCT> off-topic: someone here that can help me with a Python+Qt problem?
<persia> RainCT: Thanks a lot for chasing the menus - it makes the apps a lot more accessible (although I'm still hoping https://blueprints.launchpad.net/rosetta/+spec/rosetta-desktopfile-ui happens soon).
<RainCT> persia: how will that work?
<persia> RainCT: Nobody knows yet (which is a large part of why it doesn't exist).  The tricky part is figuring out how to reinsert the data into the packages safely, or alternately, how to provide support packages that would actually work (and not be *too* large on user systems).  If you have a good idea how to do that safely, writing it up would be great.
<RainCT> persia: I don't have, that's why I'm asking :p
<persia> RainCT: For now, best practice has just been to translate into as many languages as one can, and send to Debian and upstream, hoping to interface with upstream translation, but it's still not ideal.
<RainCT> persia: just an idea but perhaps M-o-M could be expanded to update the .desktop files inserting the translations when merging and syncing...
<LucidFox> What should be done if the upstream version includes a debian/ subdir?
<persia> RainCT: Doesn't even need MoM: if Rosetta could export the data, and MOTUs were encouraged to merge on some schedule, we'd have a manual process: the difficulty there is coordinating with upstream translations for packages where there is already a translated .desktop file, and passing the patches appropriately so as not to annoy people.
<xxxxx1> LucidFox: check topic 6.7.8 in developers-reference
<persia> LucidFox: Request upstream to remove it.  While waiting, if you can use it as a basis for your packaging, do so (this requires that no files in debian/ must be deleted - they may be converted to empty files).  If you cannot, repacking may be done, but it is not preferred.
<RainCT> persia: uhm.. Launchpad could store the last entry from Debian's .desktop file for each translation that is changed on LP and then if it hasn't changed apply Ubuntu's one
<LucidFox> xxxxx1> what is developers-reference?
<xxxxx1> LucidFox: http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/
<LucidFox> thanks
<persia> RainCT: When would it be applied?  Manually or automatically?
<RainCT> persia: well, those who adds the translations, whatever it's M-o-M or a MOTU
<persia> RainCT: Maybe.  There's a lot of manual processes involved, and it might be annoying to have a .desktop file in more languages that the actual application, but it might work.  Do you want to draft up something describing all the moving parts?  I'd be happy to glance at it, and it can be submitted for review by those who might work on an implementation.
<bluekuja> persia: done
<bluekuja> persia: descriptions changed, should be ok now
<persia> bluekuja: Great.  If someone else doesn't first, I'll hit them when I next review the queue.  Thanks for that.
<bluekuja> persia: great! :) thanks to you :)
<bmm> persia: I've made the changes you commented on while advocating the package. Do I need your new advocation for the new update? (ccbuild http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5511 ) 
<persia> bmm: Yes, as REVU can't tell what changed.  I'll take a look in a bit.  Do you already have someone else as well?
<RainCT> persia: well, maybe later
<bmm> persia: no, but then I know I should call for the first advocate again :-) Thanks!
<persia> RainCT: Welcome to the club :)
<persia> bmm: Updated.  I'm not sure you needed the upload, but it doesn't hurt :)
<persia> bmm: Just a note - it's a good idea to use dch when editing the changelog.
<bmm> persia: thanks, but how did you see that I didn't? Oh, wait the date didn't change, right?
* persia smiles smugly
<ScottK-laptop> persia: Would you look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5505.  I think it's pretty close, but I don't know enough about the desktop stuff to check that.
<persia> ScottK: I was just looking at that earlier, and am composing a mail to the submitter that I didn't know enough python packaging to advocate :)  I'll look again, for the desktop stuff.
<persia> ScottK: It's not compliant, but not any more so than much of what we have, and it will work (and be translated - hurrah!).
<persia> ScottK: I'll put a note up with suggested changes.
<LucidFox> why aren't revu packages sorted by date of upload?
<Hobbsee> for an unknown reason
<Hobbsee> i think they are, but they're sorted by number of ack's too
<LucidFox> all right, here we go - uploaded psi 0.11 RC1
<LucidFox> it's my first package, so I probably made a lot of errors, and comments are welcome
<bluekuja> LucidFox, provide the link
<LucidFox> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5512
<persia> Hey Mez.
<icf7> LucidFox: What are that certificates you are adding? Why aren't they in the original source?
<LucidFox> you mean qsa?
<icf7> yes, in this directory is a file rootcerts.pem
<LucidFox> QSA is a Qt cryptography library
<LucidFox> Psi 0.11 uses QSA2, which is not currently in Ubuntu and the Debian version conflicts with QSA1; however, the Psi configure script allows for a bundled QSA
<icf7> LucidFox: ah, I see, your patch is *big* and there is no original .tar.gz
<LucidFox> so I added its source
<LucidFox> dput didn't upload the original tar.gz
<xxxxx1> LucidFox: did you check existing psi source as start?
<LucidFox> it distributes the source as tar.bz2
<LucidFox> so I did bunzip2, then gzip
<LucidFox> maybe this is the problem?
<icf7> LucidFox: no, afaik this is the right way
<icf7> LucidFox: But you didn't rename the file to $package_$version.orig.tar.gz
<LucidFox> I did
<icf7> LucidFox: Mmm, then it's an upload problem ... http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/psi-0706131310/linda
<LucidFox> otherwise dpkg-buildpackage would refuse to work at all
<persia> LucidFox: You probably want to review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/CommonPackagingMistakes/ChangingTheOrigTarball for hints on how to make it work properly.
<LucidFox> the file is there in the directory - was dput supposed to upload it?
<persia> LucidFox: dput uploads it iff you generated Source.changes with -S -sa
<LucidFox> ahhhhhhhhh
<LucidFox> I forgot -sa
<LucidFox> okay, reuploading it
<persia> LucidFox: That would do it.  Please upload again.
<icf7> Could someone check this package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5467 (Sunflow rendering system)
<LucidFox> reuploaded
<LucidFox> oddly enough, the SVN tree for psi does include a bundled qsa - only the release tarballs don't
<icf7> LucidFox: There's a small warning from linitan ... http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/psi-0706131330/lintian
<LucidFox> okay, I will comment out the compat level in rules then
<icf7> The diff is still incredibly big (contains everything). I wonder why ...
<LucidFox> it doesn't contain everything - it contains the bundled QSA source tree
<LucidFox> because it isn't provided with the original tarball, it's only in SVN
<persia> LucidFox: Do you have a bug open for the upgrade?
<LucidFox> in Launchpad?
<LucidFox> if yes, then I don't - should I have opened it first?
<persia> LucidFox: Yes.  When making significant changes to a package in the archive, you want to have an LP bug listed as "In Progress" and assigned to you, so that others know you're touching it (and may avoid colliding with you, or otherwise contact you).  In this specific case, please also upload a diff -urN of the debian/ directories for the current archive package and the new package to the bug.
<LucidFox> Ok.
<persia> (the reason for this is that standard REVU requires 100% lintian and linda compliance, etc., but new upstreams only require packaging that is as clean as it was before, based on the principle of minimal diffs with Debian)
<LucidFox> Thanks, I'll do it in a few hours. I must go now.
<persia> icf7: You've credited me twice :)  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/CommonPackagingMistakes/DebianCopyright about your copyright.  Don't use a filetype extension for the icon in the .desktop file.  Did you already try running the lintian and linda tests on your binaries?
<icf7> persia: Thank you, the linitan warnings consist only of gutsy and NMU, am I doing something wrong here?
<pochu> icf7: run it against the binaries too.
<persia> icf7: Those are the warnings against the source.  Did you run against the binaries?
<icf7> pochu, persia: Ah, ok, didn't know there was a difference. I'll do that
<bluekuja> persia: if the remaining ubuntu changes are a fakesync for an NMU, shoul them be dropped?
<bluekuja> *should
<bluekuja> persia: or for version change 
<bluekuja> caused by a NMU too
<persia> bluekuja: Just to make sure I understand: the package you're looking now only has changes in debian/changelog (and maybe XSBC-Original-Maintainer), right?
<bluekuja> persia: yeah
<bluekuja> with a different versioning 
<persia> bluekuja: And the orig.tar.gz's differ, but are for the same upstream version?
<bluekuja> persia: yup
<bluekuja> persia: I see here that previous mergers left it as remaining change
<bluekuja> for 2 upstream versions
<bluekuja> I think it's ok to leave it then
<persia> bluekuja: Which package?  If there have been two upstreams since the fakesync, I don't believe that the orig.tar.gz's differ.
<bluekuja> persia: one of them is carpaltunnel
<bluekuja> it has been synced from debian unstable
<bluekuja> and version changed for NMU
<bluekuja> in edgy
<persia> bluekuja: Ubuntu and Debian have the same orig.tar.gz.  carpaltunnel may sync.
<bluekuja> persia, ok
<bluekuja> persia: what about syslog-summary?
<bluekuja> fakesync on there
<bluekuja> persia: tarballs seems to differ
<persia> bluekuja: Nevermind.  Don't do anything to carpaltunnel - there's no change: 0.0.9-0.1 was fakesync's in edgy, and hasn't updated in Debian since.
<bluekuja> persia: ok then, can you take a fast look to syslog-summary?
<bluekuja> tarballs differ
<bluekuja> fakesynced in egdy
<persia> bluekuja: Don't do anything to syslog-summary - there's no change: 1.12-0.1 was fakesync'd in edgy, and hasn't updated in Debian since.
<bluekuja> ok, there are 3 packages with this behaviour
<bluekuja> I'll leave them
<icf7> lintian advises to add to postrm the line "if [ -x /usr/bin/update-menus ]  ; then update-menus ; fi". Why "update-menus" instead of "/usr/bin/update-menus" the second time?
<persia> bluekuja: Basically, there's a policy bug in Ubuntu versioning that breaks with Debian native NMUs.  When you see a version number like 0.0.9-0.1, check the changelog - it's probably already there.
<bluekuja> ok
<bluekuja> thanks for the hint
<persia> icf7: Because /usr/bin should be in the path, but -x requires the full path to verify the file is there.
<icf7> persia: Thank you
<persia> bluekuja: Also, in both those cases, the orig.tar.gz files didn't differ.  You can easily check by comparing the md5sums in the .dsc files, if you don't want to download.
<bluekuja> persia, ok, It looked different here in local, that's why I asked
<bluekuja> strange thing
<persia> bluekuja: (that's because in both those cases, there is no orig.tar.gz, just tar.gz - they are native) :)
<bluekuja> yeah, that's it
<bluekuja> persia: thanks! ;) I've added something more to queue
<soc> hi
<soc> is there a way to speed up "sudo pbuilder create"
<soc> since an ubuntu update broke checkinstall i#m trying to set up pbuilder, but it looks like that this command downloads packages from the server which are already available on my computer
<soc> seems to be quite unnecessary
<soc> pbuilder takes ages ..
<persia> soc: If you want faster, and you're willing to install things locally, consider debuild.
<soc> mh ok
<so1> checkinstall worked quite well until some update broke it
<so1> is there a tutorial for debuild?
<so1> someone?
<icf7> so1: Not quite a tutorial, but there's man debuild
<so1> mh ok+
<so1> man debuild 
<so1> No manual entry for debuild
<so1> nice :-)
<bluekuja> so1: ?
<jrib> man debuild  works here
<bluekuja> same
<bluekuja> so1, man 1 debuild
<so1> no ...
<AndyP> installing debuild might be the first thing to check :)
<bluekuja> lol
<so1> there is no such package ,,,
<bluekuja> AndyP, nice hint :P
<jrib> so1: you have devscripts?
<man-di> so1: the package is called devscripts
<so1> no
<so1> ok, i'm installing it
<so1> so what are the requirement for debuild?
<so1> i want to turn a source-package into a deb ...
<so1> ok
<icf7> so1: Your package manager will normally install all dependencies needed to run debuild. Other than that, I can't imagine any requirements
<man-di> so1: unpackage the source package with dpkg-source -x ....dsc, cd into the resulting dir, debuild
<so1> man debuild says it runs dpkg-buildpackage ... wow that helps :-)
<so1> so where do i get the dsc-file?
<man-di> so1: oh, and apt-get build-dep packagename
<icf7> I updated the Sunflow package, reviews are welcome: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5514
<man-di> so1: its part of the source packages
<so1> i want to provide a deb for gimp which is not in the repositories
<man-di> apt-get source packagename downloads everything from the repos
<icf7> so1: gimp itself?
<so1> yes
<man-di> so1: why do you wanna rebuild gimp?
<so1> i don't want to rebuild a package from the repos, i want to build a new one "from scratch"
<so1> i don't want to rebuild it
<so1> because gimp 2.3.18 is not available in the repos
<so1> if it would be in the repos i wouldn't have to build a package on my own
<man-di> so1: so you want to update an existing package
* persia points at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<so1> wouldn't say that ... i install gimp 2.3 into its own namespace
<icf7> so1: As man-di said:  apt-get source gimp  will get what you want, but chances are someone has already updated it, though not in Ubuntu 7.04
<so1> so it doesn't overwrite gimp 2.2
<so1> it's not in gutsy
<so1> so apt-get source gimp, then replacing the source with that from gimp 2.3.18, modifying the dsc and hoping it builds?
<man-di> so1: debian experimental has 2.3.16
<azeem> so does gutsy
<man-di> so1: update to 2.3.18 from there should be much easier
<so1> yes
<so1> so how do i do it?
<azeem> 20:57  * persia points at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<man-di> so1: dont forget to edit debian/changelog
<so1> sorry, dinner, i'll back in 5 minutes :-(
<azeem> so1: don't eat too fast
<man-di> so1: you must be a fast eater
* persia points at http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gimp.html and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gimp
<persia> icf7: I'm going to recommend you get someone who has previously packaged something with Java to give this a look - I have no idea if some of it is correct or not :)
<icf7> persia: Thank you, I'll ask in #ubuntu-java !
<jrib> if anyone would like to review a new package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5444 thanks!
<so1> so ok
<so1> back
<persia> icf7: It may be that few people there can comment directly, but you might get some good advice either in-channel, or in a pastebin.
<so1> ok be right back
<persia> icf7: Commented.
<man-di> icf7: Java package?
<icf7> persia: Thanks, will fix that too
<icf7> man-di: Yes.
<icf7> persia: 1): Do I need more than "License for package and content:" ?
<soc> i have done apt-get source gimp
<soc> what now?
* persia is amused by the pysvn 1.5.1-1 Maintainer
<soc> tarball is extracted
<soc> should i move the new source from gimp.org over the old one?
<soc> then rename the folder=
<soc> then ./configure, make
<soc> if i wanted it to be called gimp-2.3 instead of gimp, what would i have to do?
<soc> someone there?
<man-di> soc: use uupdate
<man-di> soc: then debuild
<persia> icf7: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/CommonPackagingMistakes/DebianCopyright is what you want to check, but somehow it fails to mention http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html, which has a good example at the bottom.
<soc> so
<soc> uupdate gimp_2.3.18.orig.tar.gz?
<mok0> I've made a new upload of wulfware based on the last review, I've addressed most of the issues raised, and I now seek further review... ;-)
<persia> mok0: It's best to include the URL when saying that :)
<mok0> Just a min...
<mok0> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5495
<soc> can someone give me an advice on using uupdate=
<soc> in which directory do i have to run that?
<mok0> top dir of package
<soc> of which one?
<soc> of the old or the new?
<mok0> old
<soc> ok
<mok0> you don't yet have the new
<soc> how can i tell it where the new tar.gz is?
<mok0> :)
<soc> ah ok
<soc> so what exactly does uupdate
<mok0> that is given in debian/watch
<soc> si i can run uupdate without arguments?
<mok0> yes
<mok0> man uupdate
<soc> in watch there is just a ftp-server, is taht right?
<mok0> watch has the uri of where to look for the source code
<soc> but the uri of the official package is wrong?
<soc> it points to 2.2
<mok0> then you need  to fix it
<soc> i have the file already localy ... can i use that?
<man-di> soc: uupdate ....pathtoyourtgz
<man-di> soc: you dont need a watch file
<mok0> it should have a regexp in () where the version is
<soc> btw ... what does "version=3" mean in watch?
<soc> ok
<man-di> soc: the tool that uses watch files is called uscan anyway
<mok0> that is the version of the watch syntax
<soc> ahhh it works :-)
<mok0> never mind that
<soc> a thx
<mok0> :-)
<man-di> soc: man uscan explains watch files
<mok0> ok
<soc> ok, now i have the new source directory
<soc> ./configure=
<soc> make?
<man-di> soc: now build it with debuild
<mok0> there is a detailed manual somewhere on how to update a package to a new version
<man-di> configure and make is called by dpkg-buildpackage which is called by debuild
<AndyP> is anybody working on the rt2500 FTBFS? or does anyone know anything about it? i might have a look at it myself if no one's working on it (i need it to build to have wireless workage in gutsy)
<persia> AndyP: If there's not an assigned bug open in LP, it's fair game.
<soc> the problem is, i want the package to be called gimp-2.3" instead of "gimp
<soc> how do i do that when debuild runs configure?
* AndyP looks
<mok0> soc: but the package name does not have version numbers in it
<mok0> the version is given in the changelog file, top line
<AndyP> can't find a bug... this should be fun :)
<soc> mh ok so how can i provide a gimp package without overwriting the one from ubuntu
<soc> i distribute the package which use gimp extensively
<soc> they want to work with gimp-2.2 but want to try gimp-2.3, too
<mok0> you can (should) not call package SSgimp, but ssgimp
<mok0> (if that is neither in ubuntu or debian)
<mok0> only lowercase.
<soc> SSgimp?
<geser> soc: you would need to replace the package name in all debian/ files and filenames
<soc> dont understand that ...
<soc> ah ok ...
<soc> when using checkinstall i can just specify the name ... 
<soc> so debuild is a bit more complicates in that matter?
<mok0> control defines package names, changelog defines version nums
<mok0> debuild reads the files in debian/
<soc> so i would just have to modify control?
<mok0> mmmmm perhaps
<mok0> there can be files called gimp.install etc
<mok0> they should be renamed to ssgimp.install etc.
<soc> i would have to change that manually too?
<mok0> yes
<soc> why ss?
<geser> soc: at least, perhaps also debian/rules and rename some files in debian/
<mok0> errrr, didn't you want to call the package ssgimp?
<soc> ssgimp?
<soc> never mentioned that ...
<geser> mok0:  is next to "
<mok0> ah :-)
<soc> ahh
<soc> i see
<soc> sorry
<soc> "gimp-2.3"
<mok0> not on my keyboard 
<geser> soc: if you want to name it differently, you probably also want to make sure that gimp and gimp-2.3 are installable in parallel
<mok0> ok, so the package name is still "gimp"
<soc> i just want to be able to install both in parallel, how i do that doesn't matter+
<soc> i just thought renaming the package would be the right way
<mok0> you can call it socgimp :-)
<mok0> or gimpsoc
<soc> what would be the difference to gimp-2.3?
<soc> gimpsoc wouldn't be easier?
<soc> gimp-2.3 seems to be more intuitive
<mok0> no, it's probably simpler to just change the version
<geser> soc: but the binary will still be gimp and collide with the gimp from gimp
<mok0> so you just update the version number in debian/changelog
<geser> so need to rename the binary
<soc> i mean if i call it gimpsoc, nobody knows what it is
<soc> if i call it gimp-2.3 it's clear
<geser> and also make sure that the data files are in different dirs
<soc> and people will know that it doensa't overwrite their regular gimp
<soc> with checkinstall i called the package gimp-2.3 and installed it to /usr/local
<geser> dpkg will complain if a file /usr/bin/gimp is installed from "gimp" and "gimp-2.3"
<soc> yes, that's why i want to install it to /usr/local
<geser> packages must not install files in /usr/local
<soc> why's that?
<mok0> debian packaging policy
<mok0> gimp is maintained in the debian distro
<geser> /usr/local is in control of the local admin
<geser> and packages should not interfere with it
<mok0> soc: gimp is a complicated package, perhaps you should start with a simpler one
<zul> checkinstall is evil as well
<so1> sorry, lost connection ...
<so1> last thing i read was
<so1> (21:46:36) soc: why's that?
<so1> shouldn't unofficial packages install to local?
<mok0> no
<crimsun> No package should touch /usr/local period.  That's the domain of the administrator, as has been stated.
<mok0> it's debian packaging policy
<mok0> He was offline 
<so1> ah ok
<so1> so to install it to /usr
<so1> i would have to rename really everything to another name?
<mok0> soc: gimp is a complicated package, perhaps you should start with a simple on e
<so1> don't think that's even possible ...
<mok0> You just change the version number in debian/changelog
<so1> problem is, i promised people that i would provide them with the latest and greatest gimp-2.3 packages until they are in ubuntu ...
<so1> yeah but that would overwrite the old version wouldn't it?
<mok0> ah, promises :-)
<so1> i know i know
<so1> it seemed easy to hold ... until checkinstall broke
<so1> don't know why it f'cks up every package ...
<mok0> In principle is _should_ be possible to move the debian directory to the new 2.3 directory
<so1> it produces debs with files like, "ld", "nm", "gcc","grep" in it
<so1> don't know why ...
<mok0> but perhaps there are big changes in the way 2.3 is configured and installed
<so1> mh ...
<mok0> ... can you compile 2.3 outside of debian?
<so1> would it be possible for me to provide updated gimp-packages for the official ubuntu repos?
<mok0> (ubuntu)
<mok0> gimp already has a maintainer
<so1> don't understand the question .-...
<so1> so how could i get him to update gimp 2.3 faster? :-P
<mok0> can you download gimp-2.3.tar.gz and compile it?
<so1> yes that works
<so1> ./configure && make && make install works
<mok0> fine
<crimsun> so1: it is not Ubuntu main's policy to always have the latest & greatest.
<so1> but ./configure && make && checkinstall not
<so1> so there we have the problem ...
<crimsun> main has a _much_ stricter set of requirements for updated software
<so1> i don't overwrite ubuntus gimp packages
<mok0> I don't know checkinstall -- while you were gone someone said it is evil
<so1> i don't WANT overwrite ubuntus gimp packages
<so1> arrgh
<so1> i don't WANT TO overwrite ubuntus gimp packages
<crimsun> then install them to /opt or something
<mok0> that makes it more difficult
<so1> but it seems to be difficult to rename it
<crimsun> pass --prefix=/opt to configure
<so1> ok /opt is acceptable
<so1> how do i do that if debuild does congiure for me?
<crimsun> other packages do that - the KDE 4 snaps, for instance
<crimsun> edit debian/rules appropriately
<crimsun> since gimp uses cdbs, you'll need the appropriate redefinition
<crimsun> https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2528414
<geser> !info gimp gutsy
<ubotu> gimp: The GNU Image Manipulation Program. In component main, is optional. Version 2.3.16-1ubuntu3 (gutsy), package size 4073 kB, installed size 10768 kB
<geser> so1: ^^
<crimsun> -2 is in experimental
<crimsun> 2.3.17 should be skipped anyhow due to the crasher
<crimsun> I'm not sure of 2.3.18 
<mok0> so1: funny, before there was someone name soc asking about that very same package
<mok0> ;-)
<so1> ah ,,,
<so1> seems that the server renamed me again ...
<so1> sorry, if that was confusing ...
<mok0> np
<mok0> just trying to keep the spirit up here on the channel
<so1> ok, i give up for today ...
<so1> see you tomorrow ...
<mok0> see you, do some reading...
<so1> yes ...
<so1> i wonder why there is such a divison between those which just want to build a package and those "professional" packaging mechanisms....
<mok0> ... that's what keeps Ubuntu so very, very stable
<so1> most people will never be able to participate because it so complicated ...
<so1> "digital divide"
<so1> :-)
<mok0> yes
<so1> maybe it would be better to fix up checkinstall ...
<mok0> If you want quick-n-easy packaging, you need to go to the RPM world
<so1> mh no ,,,
<so1> no way...
<mok0> Fedora 
<mok0> :-)
<mok0> Well, there you are
<so1> rpm reminds me of suse ...
<mok0> the hard work is up front, with the packager
<so1> i just don't like the idea of checkinstall <----> debuild
<so1> that reminds me of win xp home <-----> professional ...
<mok0> like I said, I don't know checkinstall, but someone said it is evil
<so1> to keep consumers and developers/producer/worker/professionals apart ...
<so1> yeah i heard that too ...
<mok0> Your project is doable
<mok0> but you need guidance
<so1> checkinstall is so widely used because it normally works and it's easy to understand
<so1> it's doable for casual users, with checkinstall they maxbe need 1 minte to build a deb ...
<mok0> I've worked 25 years with unix and never heard of it
<so1> but debuild is highly advanced ...
<so1> then try it
<so1> download a normal source ...
<mok0> once you've edited the files in debian, you just cd .. and do: debuild
<so1> no need for dsc etc ...
<mok0> never mind
<so1> ./configure && make && sudo checkinstall
<mok0> just do debuild and distribute the .debs to your friends
<man-di> so1: both tools are for different user groups
<so1> then there comes a dialog where you can modify things like email, dependencies, packagename etc
<so1> yes i know ... and i don't like that division
<mok0> configure && make && make install is done by debian/rules
<so1> if checkinstall is evil, it should be fixed up ...
<so1> because normal users will never bother with debuild/pbuilder
<mok0> you don't need pbuilder
<persia> so1: Is there a nice guide to checkinstall with screenshots and the like?
<so1> the good thing about ubuntu is, that you will always find a deb
* persia imagines a GUI interface to feed CDBS rules files
<man-di> so1: checkinstall has its users, but looking for them among packagers is like fighting against windmills
<so1> persia: you won't need that
<so1> it's as easy as it can get
<so1> it might be possible that there is a guide
<so1> but i never needed that
<so1> checkinstall is selfexplanatory
<mok0> back to basics: what is the diff between gimp 2.2 and 2.3??
<so1> quite much i think ...
<so1> one is the stable version, one the development which will become 2.4
<so1> ok, but o have to go now ...
<crimsun> ...if checkinstall is dumping things like ld and nm into the deb, uh, I think it has much more serious problems.
<so1> see you tomorrow
<mok0> cu
<so1> no, i think that ubuntu broke something
<so1> it always worked since around the time gimp 2.3.16 came out
<keescook> any kubuntu users around?  what application launches when a non-disk usb camera gets plugged in?
<crimsun> keescook: not #kubuntu-devel ?
<so1> it always worked UNTIL around the time gimp 2.3.16 came out
* keescook is dumb
<crimsun> I have no idea why anyone would checkinstall 2.3.16 anyhow
<so1> surely ubuntu broke something in an update
<mok0> so1: dont understand
<shawarma> StevenK: Around?
<crimsun> there's a known-good, working Debian source package for 2.3.16-2 in Debian experimental
<so1> at that time there was no gimp 2.3.16
<so1> i always built the packages some hours after they were released
<so1> but now it doesn't work anymore
<shawarma> I've noticed that the copyright holders of the .po files are *very* often left out of debian/copyright.. Is this just the way it is? Is it policy? What gives?
<mok0> must be changes in the upstream source
<so1> checkinstall doesn't work anymore snce april ...
<crimsun> shawarma: they should be listed in the *.po, but yes, it does seem inconsistent.
<so1> but i couldn't identify the package which broke it yet
<shawarma> crimsun: So there's no particular reason, but just customary..
<crimsun> shawarma: AFAICT
* persia echoes the observation
<crimsun> so1: hmm, the merge from Debian indicates only two changes
<crimsun> the use of /usr/bin/which (as opposed to a shell built-in) and the addition of make as a Dependency
<so1> ok ...
<crimsun> so if checkinstall is truly broken, then something is broken in the original source package, which I'm finding a bit difficult to see
<so1> the problem is, it could just be anything ...
<crimsun> that's not to say that checkinstall itself isn't broken
<so1>  compiler, linker, autotools, etc ...
<crimsun> I don't think it's anywhere that invasive
<crimsun> if so, we'd have massive toolchain issues in addition to a completely broken archive
<so1> mh yeah, maybe just a bugfix in a gnutool which triggered a bug in checkinstall
<mok0> so1: you can file a bug report
<so1> maybe checkinstall depended on a undefined behavior which was fixed recently ...
<so1> ok, tomorrow ...
<RainCT> good night
<so1> i hate it ...
<so1> it was so easy with checkinstall ...
<crimsun> s/easy/broken/
<so1> :-(
<mok0> so1: debian package guidelines are meant to protect users from breakage
<so1> in the last two months more than 2000 people donwloaded my gimp packages ,,,
<mok0> so, you are tracking gimp developement closely?
<so1> yes ...
<so1> normally my packages are a few ours behind the current release
<mok0> what version is it that your users have downloaded?
<so1> ^hours
<so1> 2.3.15 and 2.3.16
<so1> i didn't package 2.3.17 because of the crasher
<so1> and now people are waiting for my gimp 2.3.18 package ...
<mok0> so, you are complaining that something's changed recently in ubuntu?
* so1 cries
* mok0 comforts
<so1> yes ...
<so1> something caused checkinstall to malfunction ...
<so1> on both
<so1> on my pc (i386)
<mok0> what did you use to do when updating a package?
<so1> and laptop (amd64)
<crimsun> please don't use checkinstall if you know it's broken.
<mok0> You used to use checkinstall?
<so1> download the source package from gimp.org
<so1> ./configure && make && sudo checkinstall -> upload
<mok0> you need to file a bug report against checkinstall
<so1> yeah ok
<so1> crimsun: i don't use it anymore ...
<so1> because it's broken
<crimsun> if your users are frothing at the mouth, I'd use uupdate
<so1> yes, but i can't distribute it as "gimp"
<so1> that will overwrite their packages
<mok0> I'd tell'em to use PhotoShop... 
<mok0> :-)
* so1 hunts mok0
<crimsun> so1: of course you can distribute it as gimp
<crimsun> see, this is one of the problems with checkinstall
<so1> it will overwrite the officail gimp-2.2
<mok0> yes
<so1> but if i install it as "gimp" it will overwrite it
<mok0> yes, but does it matter'
<crimsun> its users have no motivation to learn about Conflicts and other Debian source package protocol.
<so1> dpkg can't handle two different packages with the same name
<crimsun> yes it can
<crimsun> I just told you the precise field
<so1> if you mean, it will try to update the one with the other than yes
<so1> but you can't have two "gimp"s installed
<so1> conflicts won't help, because that will remove the old gimp 2.2 package
<crimsun> oh, you mean concurrently installed? No, that's bad.
<so1> yes exactly
<crimsun> just name it something else
<so1> thats waht i'm atlking about since hours
<mok0> you need pretty advance packaging to have two different versions
<so1> yes exactly -----------> gimp-2.3
<mok0> I'd suggest gimp23 then
<crimsun> so1: what release is this for?
<crimsun> so1: because gimp already exists as 2.3.16-2 in Debian experimental
<so1> mok0: as long as checkinstall worked that was a matter of seconds to change the fieldname from "gimp" to "gimp-2.3"
<mok0> your package will be gimp23_2.3_i385.deb
<so1> ^exactly
<mok0> ok
<crimsun> so1: it's not any worse in Debian.  You edit one field in the appropriate files.
<so1> mok0 told me, i would have to rename the hole debian directory ...
<crimsun> you need to be very careful if you're maintaining third-party packages that already exist in Debian and its derivatives
<mok0> change gimp -> gimp23 -> change names of files in debian/
<crimsun> you do not have to rename the directory
<mok0> and in control
<so1> see the prolem?
<mok0> no
<crimsun> it's the content of debian/* that matters, not the name of the extracted source dir
<mok0> piece of cake
<soc> sorry
<soc> i HATE pidgin
<mok0> soc!!!
<soc> :-)
<mok0> heghe
<mok0> hehe
<soc> i always loose the connection
<mok0> when was the split?
<soc> some seconds ago ...
<soc> "so1" == "soc"
<mok0> Ah!
<mok0> Anyways: rename gimp-> gimp23 -> edit control, rename all files in debian called gimp.* ->  gimp23.*
<azeem> mok0: there's already a gimp-2.3 package, why do you want to fundamentally change it?
<azeem> eh, I guess that was for soc
<crimsun> he wants them parallel-installable
<azeem> oh well, I didn't read scrollback
<azeem> to be uploaded to ubuntu?
<mok0> no obvously :-)
<azeem> soc: or for your own leisure?
<azeem> ah, /me doesn't mind then
<soc> azeem: i provide some (2000) friends with always up-to-date packages ...
<azeem> aha
<soc> what's wrong with checkinstall btw?
<azeem> soc: did you see the part about gimp-2.3.17 being broken?
<soc> yes ...
<azeem> ok
<soc> i didn't package it at all
<soc> it's not a problem with gimp, but with checkinstall ...
<soc> and because checkinstall is broken i'm trying to learn proper packaging with debuild
<soc> but that seems not that easy though ...
<soc> crimsun?
<crimsun> soc?
<soc> could you explain what exactly is evil with checkinstall?
<soc> maybe i'll understand it ...
<soc> that would help me to use debuild :-)
<crimsun> checkinstall has generated broken packages
<crimsun> I didn't say it was evil, I said it is foolish to use checkinstall when there is an existing 2.3.16 source package in Debian
<soc> but there is no 2.3.18 ...
<crimsun> so take it, and use uupdate
<soc> but that is 10 times more complicated than checkinstall ...
<soc> ^approximately :-)
<crimsun> and at at least 10^6 times "easier" than doing it from scratch.
<man-di> soc: and produces 100 times better packages
<soc> what's better about them?
<man-di> soc: e.g. correct dependencies
<man-di> or at least better dependencies
<soc> you can specify them in checkinstall too
<azeem> but you'd need to start from scratch
<man-di> soc: in debian package you already have them
<soc> i might just copy them from the dsc file
<crimsun> does checkinstall handle shlibdeps?
<man-di> soc: with checkinstall you start everytime from scratch
<man-di> crimsun: nope
<soc> have no problem with that :-)
<crimsun> right, that's at least one potential disaster
<soc> takes approximately 1 minute ...
<mok0> soc: you just said you'd like to learn proper debian packaging: it take some effort
<soc> compared to the countless hours i'm just trying tu _understand_ how debuild/pbuilder etc. work
<soc> :-)
<crimsun> soc: we all started there
<AndyP> understanding is good
<soc> ok, that makes me more comfortable
<soc> yes i know
<soc> but for now my top priority is that those people waiting for my package get it within hours of the release
<mok0> so: let's agree about you forget about checkinstall
<soc> nr 2 is debian packaging
<soc> if i combine those two, it would be nice .-..
<crimsun> so take the Debian source package for 2.3.16-2 and work with it.
<soc> ok
<soc> ok
<soc> so rename all gimp-files to gimp-2.3
<mok0> your users are not served well if your packages one day break their systems
<soc> yeah ... but it worked for a half year :-)
<soc> ok ...
<soc> rename all gimp-files to gimp-2.3 <--- is there something INSIDE which i have to rename, too=
<mok0> Ahhh.... half a year... let's talk about 5 years
<mok0> in debian/contral
<soc> then modify control
<soc> ok
<mok0> yup
<soc> so inside control
<soc> and the rest just the filename
<mok0> and all files in debian named "gimp.*"
<mok0> and libgimp.*
<mok0> etc
<soc> btw. how do i have to change control so that it just generates a big gimp-2.3 package and not 10 small ones?
<mok0> Oh, that's a huge project
<soc> downloading and installing them manually is pita
<man-di> soc: famous last words: ... but it worked in the past
<soc> (about repositories we'll talk later)
<mok0> most of us use apt
<soc> (23:10:22) soc: (about repositories we'll talk later)
<soc> :-)
<soc> my fear is, that if i know change the packaging AND the distribution nothing works in the end
<mok0> soc: we're not getting anywhere
<soc> so i would like to sort out the packaging first, then maybe if it works i'll set up a repo
<soc> would that be acceptable?
<mok0> netsplit, huh?
<soc> did i already mention that i hate pidgin? :-P
<soc> yeah ---
<mok0> yup
<mok0> well, you're kinda bitchin that checkinstall doesn't work, you say you wanna learn proper packaging and then you say that it's too difficult
<soc> i just have some webspace, but for setting up a repo i would need my own server, wouldn't i?
<mok0> yes
<soc> my problem is, that people wait for my packages ...
<soc> :-(
<soc> and i will do everything necessary so they will get them
<soc> if that means debain packaging, ok
<soc> i will do it
<mok0> good
<soc> i just have some different priorities ...
<man-di> you dont really need your own server, you can create a repo on your host and then rsync/ftp/whatever the result to your webspace
<mok0> we've told you what to do
<soc> so for instance "falcon" would be able to install it from remote?
<soc> just with http/ftp?
<man-di> anyway, enough hacking for today, good nite all
<crimsun> night
<mok0> if he/she knows the exact URI
<mok0> night, crimsun
<mok0> man-di, night!
<soc> night, madi
<soc> ^man-di
<soc> problem is i don't really have a change starting to learn it with a simple package, because i exactly need gimp :-(
<mok0> gimp is a complicated package
<azeem> soc: I'm curious, what's the new features in .18 compared to .16?
<soc> don't know ...
<soc> -> changelog
<jmg> lawl
<soc> i'm just doing people a favor
<soc> i'm no artist ...
<mok0> lol = laughing my legs off
<soc> 95% of my time with gimp i'm resizing some holiday pics or so ...
<soc> :-)
<mok0> laugh off legs
<mok0> :)
<xxxxx1> bye all
<mok0> luckily we still have xxxxx2
<soc> why are people laughing at me? :-)
<jmg> :)
<mok0> It's all in good fun
<soc> yeah, i know ...
<soc> :-)
<soc> is there maybe a simple package which needs a maintainer?
<mok0> Ah!
<jmg> check the rfps
<mok0> http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/work_needing
<jmg> oh
<jmg> orphanage
<mok0> Lots and lots
<TheMuso> siretart: No, not for any great length of time.
<mok0> TheMuso: Errrrr?
<TheMuso> mok0: siretart contacted me earlier about something, so I am just replying to him.
<soc> mh  ... nothing interesting ...
<soc> exaile, listen those things are already in ubuntu, aren't they?
<soc> exaile even has its own repo :-/
<crimsun> yes, they are already in Debian and in Ubuntu.
<AndyP> hm, out of my depth with this rt2500 bug... i think i'll just file a bug with my findings so far and hope someone with more clue than i finds it
<soc> mh ...ok
<soc> how about the kernels?
<crimsun> the what?
<soc> has hurd a maintainer already?
<soc> :-P
<crimsun> there is a kernel team
<mok0> Yeah, hurd has 1 maintainer and 1 user
<soc> ah ok ...
<soc> the same person?
<soc> let me guess ...
<soc> duke nukem?
<AndyP> and a fanboy (bddebian) :)
<mok0> That is yet to be determined
<soc> booting ..........
<BlueDevil> hello, please build a desktop kernel with HIGHMEM 64GB support :)
<soc> duke nukem forever logged in at hurd release 12.12.2089
<azeem> soc: the hurd package already has a maintainer
<soc> damn :-(
<soc> lol
<mok0> Hello, duke? duke? DUKE? DUUUUUKKKEEEE?
<mok0> laughing off legs
<soc> i don't think that 64gb and desktop fit together
<BlueDevil> why not?
<soc> you see ...
<soc> desk-top ...
<soc> would you place your machine with 64gb on a desk?
<soc> would be a bit too heavy ....
<BlueDevil> ok, deskbottom :)
<soc> but ... of course better than lap-top ...
<mok0> Better be a damn solid desk
<soc> who would want to place his 64gb machine on his lap ...
<BlueDevil> i'm close to kicking it...
<soc> :-)
<soc> kick-top hay yet to be invented
<soc> ^has
<BlueDevil> been trying to build than damn kernel forever
<soc> btw why?
<mok0> apt-get install kernel
<BlueDevil> it won't see more than 2GB without highmem 64gb support
<crevette> hello
<BlueDevil> the bios configures a hole in the 2gb-4gb range
<crevette> apt-get uses 100% inside  pubuilder, could you help me to solve that
<BlueDevil> and the generic kernel can only address 4gb
<mok0> I though himem support meant > 640 Kb
<BlueDevil> highmem
<SlimG> What character encoding is required for /usr/share/man/man6/ manuals?
<BlueDevil> so my kernel addresses 2GB of memory and 2GB of nothing
<BlueDevil> damn frustrating
<mok0> BlueDevil: reality is cruel
<BlueDevil> i feel like i'm on gentoo
<mok0> :-)
<crimsun> BlueDevil: we don't care for the kernel
<BlueDevil> je sais
<crimsun> well, most of us don't
<BlueDevil> is there motm?
<SlimG> #ubuntu-motm ;)
<mok0> Most of us don't have > 2 Gb RAM
<crimsun> no, there's the Ubuntu Kernel Team.  We're in #ubuntu-kernel
<BlueDevil> why?! why?! why?! :)
<mok0> motm -> mothers of the metaphor?
<BlueDevil> s/metaphor/monkey/
<BlueDevil> crimsun: any idea why was EXTRAVERSION = .3ubuntu1 defined in the 2.6.20-19 source?
<crimsun> I asked that a while ago, and I don't remember the answer
<shawarma> StevenK: Around?
<crimsun> shawarma: I think it's still very, very early in the A.M. for him
<shawarma> crimsun: I forget where he is..
<shawarma> crimsun: I've got a stack of stuff that could use a review, by the way. If you do it, I'll fix your favorite server bug. :)
<crimsun> as in stuff on revu?  which ones?  I'm at work, but I can look tonight.
<shawarma> crimsun: Just look for "soren@ubuntu.com". A stack (5-6 or so) perl things, and a python app.
<crimsun> k
<shawarma> crimsun: I'm pretty sure, they're good to go, I just need an ACK on them.
<mok0> goodnight, folks!
<soc> night
<soc> thx for your help
<mok0> Hope it helps
<soc> i'll try things tomorrow
<soc> bye!
<geser> AndyP: about the rt2500 FTBFS: have to tried to add #include <linux/if.h> before wireless.h?
<geser> linux/if.h defined IFNAMSIZ
<ScottK-laptop> Who do I subscribe to a proposed SRU for Feisty once I have a feisty-proposed debdiff?  It isn't clear to me from the wiki.
<crimsun> you don't subscribe anyone
<crimsun> you handle it from there
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  I'll upload it then.  Thanks.
<crimsun> np
<BlueDevil> crimsun: is usually anyone alive on ubuntu-kernel?
<crimsun> yes, but it's very sporadic
<ScottK-laptop> crimsun: You find a place to live yet?
<crimsun> ScottK-laptop: not yet
* ScottK-laptop remembers you said you'd email...
<BlueDevil> so, it's likely that someone will read my msgs...
<crimsun> ScottK-laptop: yep, will do.  Lots to wrap up first.
<Q-FUNK> hm. where in debian/rules would i normally put the deletion of *.la that the upstream makefile automaticlly installs to destdir?
<Burgundavia> shawarma: ping
<geser> Q-FUNK: iirc the install target
<crimsun> well, anytime before dh_installdeb(1) if debhelper is used
<crimsun> most will nuke them in install or binary-*
<Q-FUNK> right, so install:: then
<Q-FUNK> very stubborn autotools that insist upon telling the Makefile to install everything and the kitchen sink to /usr/lib/
<shawarma> Burgundavia: pong
<Burgundavia> shawarma: are you packaging ebox? have you decided on a sysadmin framework?
<shawarma> Burgundavia: Yes and almost.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-14
<Burgundavia> shawarma: -directory
<leonel> ScottK-laptop: for  CVE-2007-2650  CVE-2007-2029  for dapper   I can't  fix it because  it's reported and resolved in  0.90.3  and the code has changed    debian has not relased update for sarge's clamav  and for  CVE-2006-6481  debian  added extra functionality and I can't tell what modifications are exactly for that cve  just for the  Dapper's CVE-2007-1745  I have patched 
<ubotu> The OLE2 parser in Clam AntiVirus (ClamAV) allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (resource consumption) via an OLE2 file with (1) a large property size or (2) a loop in the FAT file block chain that triggers an infinite loop, as demonstrated via a crafted DOC file. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-2650)
<ubotu> File descriptor leak in the PDF handler in Clam AntiVirus (ClamAV) allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service via a crafted PDF file. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-2029)
<ubotu> Clam AntiVirus (ClamAV) 0.88.6 allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (stack overflow and application crash) by wrapping many layers of multipart/mixed content around a document, a different vulnerability than CVE-2006-5874 and CVE-2006-6406. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2006-6481)
<ubotu> The chm_decompress_stream function in libclamav/chmunpack.c in Clam AntiVirus (ClamAV) before 0.90.2 leaks file descriptors, which has unknown impact and attack vectors involving a crafted CHM file, a different vulnerability than CVE-2007-0897.  NOTE: some of these details are obtained from third party information. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-1745)
<Q-FUNK> erm...
<MrDumbo> spam
<leonel> HAM
<AndyP> geser: linux/wireless.h includes linux/if.h, the problem is a recent change in linux/wireless.h where some includes have been surrounded by an #ifdef __KERNEL__ block in order to "sanitise" the header. if you're interested the change is at http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commitdiff;h=baef186519c69b11cf7e48c26e75feb1e6173baa
<ScottK-laptop> leonel: All you can do is what you can do.
<ScottK-laptop> leonel: You've been making good contributions.
<AndyP> geser: apparently it should be using iwlib.h instead, which I've tried and it built with that but then rt2500-source still doesn't build using module-assistant once it's installed... i'm also wondering if this should be a kernel team thing because feisty's kernel had the rt2500 module in by default (as far as i can see)
<AndyP> s/feisty's kernel/& package/
<AndyP> so yeah, i guess i should paste all that into a bug report now...
<leonel> ScottK-laptop: so .. to  call it unfinish  what's to be done ?
<ScottK-laptop> leonel: We need to figure out how to backport the 0.90 versions to Dapper/Edgy as discussed at the last MOTU meeting.
* ScottK-laptop is in the middle of a meeting, so has limited bandwidth for IRC right now.
<leonel> ScottK-laptop: ok  let's see what can we do  in that  area
<geser> AndyP: that would be good. I only looked at the build report and saw there a missing IFNAMSIZ
<SlimG> How do I insert a non-ascii character into a ascii document? (using groff_char)
<DktrKranz> if you have some time to spend, could you please take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5287 ?
<DktrKranz> night all :)
<StevenK> shawarma: I am now.
<SlimG> I'm packaging a game with only one binary, Should I place the binary directly into /usr/games/ or should it still be located in /usr/share/games/<gamename>/  ?
<ScottK-laptop> SlimG: /usr/share/games/<gamename>/
<SlimG> ScottK-laptop: thanks
<minghua> ScottK-laptop: why?  If the binary is compiled, it surely shouldn't be under /usr/share/?
<ScottK-laptop> hmmm
<crimsun> meaning /usr/games/ ?
<crimsun> not sure why /usr/share/ would be relevant
<ScottK-laptop> The question I was answering was if it should go in a package name subdir and I think it should.
<crimsun> the ones I have installed don't use such
<minghua> crimsun: a lot of games put data files in /usr/share/games/<name>/, but I don't see the reason to put executable binary there
* ScottK-laptop goes to read the hfs documentation.
<crimsun> bsdmainutils, patchutils, gnome-games, fortune-mod
<minghua> (even if it's arch-independent)
<minghua> crimsun: try wesnoth :-)
<crimsun> I'm speaking of executable binaries, of course
<crimsun> /usr/share/games/ is trivially useful 
<geser> compiled binaries (arch-dependent) shouldn't be below /usr/share
<crimsun> right, we're in agreement there
<crimsun> the binary, say named foo, should be /usr/games/foo
<ScottK-laptop> For usr/share a pacakage specific sub dir is recommended, but not required.  HFS is silent on subdir in usr/games.
<StevenK> FHS, even?
<ScottK-laptop> Yeah.  That one.
<StevenK> I wouldn't suggest a subdirectory under /usr/games. /usr/games is in the PATH, but /usr/games/* isn't.
<ScottK-laptop> Sorry.  Trying to do IRC and listen in a meeting at the same time.
<ScottK-laptop> Makes sense.
<minghua> okay, seems there is a consensus
<minghua> SlimG: you should put your game binary in /usr/games/
<SlimG> minghua: thanks for clearing that up for me, I'll remember that
<SlimG> What's the right way to read /usr/share/doc/<package>/copyright ?
<ScottK-laptop> Meeting's over, see you all later....
<jrib> if anyone would like to review a new package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5444 thanks! (by the way, is it annoying for me to keep asking every day, should I just post to the mailing list and shutup?)
<minghua> jrib: once per day is absolutely fine in my opinion
<nixternal> what is the proper way of using the requestsync script?
<AndyP> dear thunderbird, grow a reply-to-list button, kthxbai!
<StevenK> nixternal: requestsync <source> <release>
<StevenK> nixternal: You'll need a deb-src line for <release>, and the DEBEMAIL environment variable set.
<nixternal> I have DEBEMAIL set already in .bashrc
<nixternal> how do I add the deb-src line, or where?
* nixternal does it the old way
<StevenK> nixternal: /etc/apt/sources.list
<nixternal> oh
<nixternal> MOTU: bug 120300
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120300 in kftpgrabber "Please synce kftpgrabber (0.8.1-1) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120300
<nixternal> simple sync
<nixternal> all Ubuntu changes (1 of them) can be dropped as Debian included our patch
<AndyP> ah i love it when debian does that :)
<nixternal> me too
<nixternal> fboudra is cool like that though
<SlimG> Where should the .svg Icon mentioned in /usr/share/applications/example.desktop be placed?
<minghua> /usr/share/icons/<somewhere>/scalable/apps/, I think
<minghua> I am also not sure the <somewhere> part
<SlimG> minghua: the only icons dirs on my kubuntu is containing scalable folder is mono, crystalsvg and hicolor, so I guess the hicolor is the one I should use..?
<SlimG> s/kubuntu is/kubuntu/
<AndyP> SlimG: in those situations i usually look at where other packages are putting their similar files (probably not the best way to do it but it's an "if in doubt, go with the flock" solution)
<leonel> how do I can  know  what packages without being installed   depend on  some lib ?
<minghua> leonel: apt-cache show <packagename>
<minghua> or apt-cache rdepends <libpackagename>, not sure what you meant
<leonel> minghua: I mean  I have  libclamav2   and I need to know  what packages  need  libclamav2  even  if those packages are not installed
<SlimG> AndyP: As I mentioned, I'll go with the flock and use /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps , sure hope the flock is right :)
<leonel> rdpends ?
<minghua> leonel: yes, the rdepends one
<leonel> thanks  it is
<AndyP> SlimG: "For example, installing a svg icon in $prefix/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps means most desktops will have one icon that works for all sizes." -- http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-theme-spec/icon-theme-spec-latest.html#install_icons
<AndyP> yay for definitive answers
<SlimG> AndyP: thanks :)
<SlimG> what's the difference between .svg and .svgz? is the extra "z" for gzipped svg files?
<AndyP> SlimG: yup
<SlimG> AndyP: Should the file inside example.svgz also be named example.svgz ?
<SlimG> or just .svg ?
<AndyP> SlimG: you mean the original uncompressed file? .svg
<SlimG> AndyP: (yes, the original uncompressed) should example.desktop refer to example.svg or example.svgz then?
<AndyP> SlimG: whichever one you're installing, at a guess :)
<bobbob> hey
<bobbob> anyone on?
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<Hobbsee> hiya TheMuso 
<AndyP> good night folks
<Hobbsee> night welshbyte
<zakame> good day MOTUs
<zakame> anyone doing xmms2 merge?
<leonel> hey zakame  
<zakame> yo leonel how goes clamav?
<leonel> bad bad  there are  2 cve which  are for  0.90.X  and  need to backport to 88.2  and I can't tell what to patch  since the code has changed in 0.90
<snerfu> I would like to merge my rewrite of stendhal someday.
<zakame> have you brought upstream in to help you out?
<leonel> no I haven't 
<leonel> how can that be done ?  I'm  new  here 
<zakame> lookup clamav's debian/copyright for author info, or lookup their website for contacts
<leonel> zakame: great  thanks  I'll contact them 
<leonel> zakame: what's for  openjdk  in ubuntu   , do you know any plans for it ?
<zakame> leonel: np :)
<leonel> np == no plans ?
<Burgundavia> leonel: icedtea is packaged for Debian
<leonel> so a merge has to be done ?
<Burgundavia> http://gnu.wildebeest.org/diary-man-di/?p=37
<jsgotangco> icedtea is a package? heh
<leonel> i've tried those debs  but can't install on feisty 
<zakame> jsgotangco: nestea?
<jsgotangco> zakame: i like our "local" bottled tea thank you, less sugary
<zakame> hmm libfaad isn't in gutsy?
<leonel> well got to  go ..
<zakame> oh, libfaad2-dev in multiverse
<zakame> heya man-di_
<ScottK-laptop> Any experienced MOTUs available to answer a newbie MOTU question...
* ScottK-laptop dput a NEW package from REVU today (I was the second advocate) and I don't see it anywhere.
<ScottK-laptop> Do I have to dput differently for a NEW package?
<crimsun> no.
<crimsun> which did you upload?
<LucidFox> I have submitted 5 new needs-packaging bugs to Launchpad
<LucidFox> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging&start=300
<ScottK-laptop> nixternal: libreadonly-perl
<ScottK-laptop> Oops.  Wrong issue to point nixternal at.
<ScottK-laptop> crimsun:  libreadonly-perl
<nixternal> heh
<crimsun> ScottK-laptop: did you receive an upload accept?
<crimsun> maybe I need DRI enabled for this new Flash plugin beta
<ScottK-laptop> crimsun: I did not.
<crimsun> ScottK-laptop: reupload it
<ScottK-laptop> crimsun: Thanks.
<crimsun> mm, nope, DRI doesn't do it.
<crimsun> 9.0.60.120 is definitely broken.  Not uploading.
<ScottK-laptop> crimsun: Did I do something wrong or is this just stuff happens sometimes?
<crimsun> ScottK-laptop: it happens sometimes, though it's not supposed to.
<ScottK-laptop> This was my first NEW upload...
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  Thanks.
<crimsun> make sure you signed it with your usual key, etc.
<zakame> ooh new perl module :)
<ScottK-laptop> I did debsign -m and the usual e-mail address just like I would for someone else's merge.
<zakame> usually a debuild -S -sa should do
<ScottK-laptop> Not if it's not my name in the changelog because I didn't package it.
<crimsun> sure you can, just pass the correct -k0xfoo
<zakame> yep
<ScottK-laptop> Ah..  That would do it.
<crimsun> anyone who feels the urge to fix bug 120319, please realise that the beta version is utterly broken.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120319 in flashplugin-nonfree "[UPDATE]  New beta of the flashplayer available" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120319
<crimsun> The release notes mention a workaround, but of course it's impossible to apply the workaround, since it crashes the web browser.
<zakame> waah
<crimsun> I'm not even sure how they managed to release it; it's a 100% regression from the final 9.0.31.  No sites work at all.
<zakame> hmm yet another worse-than-fail?
<crimsun> it appears to initialise fine, but it never actually does anything
<zakame> I see
<ScottK-laptop> For Flash, isn't that a feature?
<zakame> hmm what ffmpeg issues are there blocking xmms2?
<zakame> bug 84381?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 84381 in ffmpeg "[apport]  ffmpeg crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84381
<zakame> hmm xmm2 seems to build fine now
<StevenK> On the buildds?
<zakame> no just on my chroot, will check
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: According to LP you all published the python-spf backport for edgy last month - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyspf
<StevenK> zakame: xmms2 was strange, in that it will build fine everywhere, *aside* from the buildds.
<StevenK> case in $(hostname -f) ; *ubuntu.com) fail_build_randomly ;; esac
<jussi01> hello everyone...
<zakame> hmm the new DrJekyll version seems to have overhauled its build system
<StevenK> It moved to cmake, didn't it?
<zakame> no more direct scons calls, there's a ./waf script that drives the build
<StevenK> zakame: waf is derived from scons.
<zakame> ah, cool
<zakame> waah xmms2 should really get reorganized into several source pkgs
<zakame> no wonder why the build fails selectively, its trying to be a God Package...
<dholbach> good morning
<zakame> hmm let's see if this new xmms2 builds on the buildds...
<Fujitsu> zakame: Good luck.
<Fujitsu> You'll need it.
<StevenK> Heh
<zakame> Fujitsu: thanks, wiping my keyboard with it now. :D
<ScottK-laptop> Fujitsu: Any chance you'd take a look at python-scipy.  I managed to break it and am unsure how to proceed.  I test built python-scipy (0.5.2-9ubuntu1) in my pbuilder before I uploaded it and it built (I'd updated it a few days before).  It FTBFS on the buildd's.  I updated my pbuilder and it would no longer build for me.  
<Fujitsu> ScottK-laptop: Sure, I'll have a look.
<Fujitsu> I'd really like it if LP allowed subscriptions to packages for getting notification of uploads/FTBFSes/etc.
<ScottK-laptop> Fujitsu: Thanks.  Here's the traceback from the FTBFS: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25482/
* Fujitsu compares to previous build logs.
<porthose> I uploaded ampache-3.3.3.2-0ubuntu1 to REVU but discovered it has a serious problem can I get a MOTU to nuke that upload please
<dholbach> porthose: can't you just re-upload?
<porthose> you can do that?
<ScottK-laptop> Fujitsu: I need to get to bed.  With luck, this hotel internet connection will stay up.  If you have any suggestions on what I can do to fix it, please let me know and I'll work on it (of course if you want to fix it, don't let me get in your way).
<ScottK-laptop> porthose: dput -f
<porthose> cool I'll do that thanks
<Fujitsu> ScottK-laptop: Sure, I'll probably fix it myself, but maybe not.
<Fujitsu> Goodnight.
<zakame> ooh xmms2 starts building
<zakame> now depwaits on most arches
<geser> zakame: is it perheps because libfaad2-dev is in multiverse and xmms2 in universe?
<crimsun> speaking of which, shouldn't we merge the new faad2 from Debian?
<crimsun> yes, there will be some hellacious package mangling to be done, but it's worth it IMO
<dholbach> TheMuso: espeak uploaded - just noticed: shouldn't espeak-data be arch: all?
<crimsun> and if faad2 is in Debian main, we should be able to ask for its promotion to Ubuntu universe
<zakame> geser: yep
<zakame> it should be in universe
<zakame> anyway we're early, so I think its doable :)
<geser> crimsun: I asked slomo about it during the merges for feisty. IIRC ours faad2 is severely patched which makes merging very difficult
<crimsun> I wonder if there's any specific reason we should retain ours instead of using Debian's
* zakame checks out faad2
<geser> zakame: either move xmms2 to universe or don't build-depend on libfaad2-dev till it moved to universe
<zakame> geser: xmms2 is in universe
<crimsun> *xmms2 to multiverse
<geser> yes
<zakame> heavily patched? I see only 5 in debian/patches
* geser looks up the mails about it
<zakame> just about the big patch is in 09_amd64.diff
<zakame> perhaps on the binary pkgs produced may affect this; debian has a different set than ubuntu
<zakame> looking at the versions though, I'd say we have a totally different faad2 from debian's
<dholbach> REVU DAY TODAY
<dholbach> yoohoo
<dholbach> oh and Q&A session today
<dholbach> was anybody at the 0:00 UTC ones?
<dholbach> oh... I won't be able to be at the 12:00 UTC one
<dholbach> does anybody feel up to doing it?
<geser> zakame: slomo mailed me that Debian's faad2 has 64bit problems which our doesn't and that every version after ours has a GPL incompatible license which makes the Debian packages useless
<BugMaN> bug #46013 it's a single line fix, if some universe sponsor can be check... :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 46013 in backupninja "mail-command instead of rmail" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/46013
<dholbach> heno: today is a REVU day, not a Universe HUG DAY afaik
<zakame> geser: ah, there we go
<dholbach> and MOTU Q&A hours at 12:00 UTC
<heno> dholbach: ooops, I've been picking up on rumors :/
<dholbach> heno: we'll decide on a new Universe HUG DAY in tomorrow's MOTU meeting
<heno> oh, well. I'll run my own little universe hug day then
<dholbach> heno: best to check the MOTU Team header - it has al lthe dates
<zakame> dholbach: hmm like knuth's all questions answered? :)
<heno> ah, ok
<heno> so it does
<zakame> geser: wouldn't xmms2 to multiverse probably surprise users (at least)?
<geser> yes, I would prefer to build xmms2 without libfaad2-dev instead of moving it to multiverse
<zakame> I gather there's a better way than to just comment out faad2-relevant packages in debian/control, then.
<imbrandon> probably --without-faad2 in the debian/rules configure options if it uses autofoo magic
<imbrandon> ( and also control )
<geser> zakame: without testing: remove libfaad2-dev from B-D and delete the xmms2-plugin-faad package from debian/control
<zakame> geser: exactly what I'm doing now :)
<zakame> fortunately, its just debian/control; no need to edit debian/rules
* dholbach takes a look at nautilus-wallpaper
<dholbach> is adam israel around?
* dholbach looked at olive
* dholbach looks at system-config-samba
* highvoltage looks at dholbach 
<dholbach> highvoltage: it's REVU Day
* zakame looks at ccbuild
<highvoltage> dholbach: is that until the end of the day?
<dholbach> it's always a REVU day
<dholbach> today is a special one :)
<highvoltage> ah :)
<highvoltage> I'm working until 15:00 UTC, I'll get into that brasero package right after that
<highvoltage> maybe I can even get it up for revu today
<dholbach> highvoltage: it was updated already
<highvoltage> dholbach: ok. I'll ping you a bit later then I can start with another package?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/WIP lists a few
<dholbach> other than that we have myriads of bugs marked as 'upgrade' 'packaging' 'needs-packaging' and 'bitesize'
<dholbach> can we agree that we archive uploads that had a comment, but no reply back for more than a month and mail all the people involved?
* dholbach starts to make a list
* zakame looks at yazpp
<highvoltage> dholbach: was that a question for me?
<dholbach> highvoltage: I asked everybody in here :)
<highvoltage> ok, just checking :)
<MrDumbo> what is the best way to put up a request for having a package updated in gutsy
<dholbach> MrDumbo: you can file a bug and tag it as 'upgrade'
<MrDumbo> I filed a bug, but I might have forgotten the tag
<MrDumbo> because it also got deleted... 
<dholbach> deleted?
<MrDumbo> to long no confirmation
<zakame> dholbach++
<dholbach> MrDumbo: did you file a support request?
<MrDumbo> might have done it wrong...
<MrDumbo> a well going to try it later.
<MrDumbo> how do you tag it?
<highvoltage> 021-918-2116
<highvoltage> ugh, sorry, pasted to wrong window
<MrDumbo> grr hate it when bugs are reported at wrong places
<MrDumbo> they can't expect me to check all distro's bugtrackers
<MrDumbo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gmpc/+bug/102595 <-- anyway to close that, because it's fixed
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 102595 in gmpc "adding all tracks from an album should sort by track number" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<imbrandon> MrDumbo, i marked it as fix released upstream but it shouldent be closed in ubuntu untill its uploaded there
<imbrandon> and you dont have to check all distros bug trackers, LP tracks bugs upstream in your tracker
<imbrandon> just FYI
<MrDumbo> no, how can I possible track all the f*** bug trackers
<MrDumbo> I don't have time for that
<imbrandon> and as i just said why would you need to ?
<MrDumbo> I doubt if launchpad does
<imbrandon> sure it does, thats one of its deatures
<imbrandon> features*
<MrDumbo> this bug, I never heard of it, until somewhen sended me a patch (but most of the time it's completely passing me by)
<imbrandon> but even if it dident why would you need to ?
<MrDumbo> I want to know about bugs in my programs.. so I can fix them?
<imbrandon> rigth and upstream bug distros file upstream as well as in their trackers , or should just for that very reason
* dholbach archived at least 15 packages
<imbrandon> and thats why LP will track your bug tracker
<MrDumbo> I _never_ had that.
<MrDumbo> dunno about launchpad have to admit that
<MrDumbo> but with other distro's....
<imbrandon> MrDumbo, then i am sorry you have not experinced the joys of opensource
<MrDumbo> sorry just a bit of a bad mood..
<imbrandon> i can see
<imbrandon> i'm just trying to tell you you are a bit offbase :)
<imbrandon> yes things get over looked from time to time but over all you dont have to 
<MrDumbo> imbrandon: I think it's just a waste, it often happens after months I get pointed in a bug in the gentoo tracker, or on some debian ml... 
<MrDumbo> anyway, back to why I started..
<MrDumbo> gmpc version in ubuntu is years old.
* zakame looks at libpam-cups
<imbrandon> MrDumbo, then do the "right thing" and who ever it is pointing it out to you needs to file it upstream, gentoos tracker is for gentoo specific issues just as debians and ubuntu's
<dholbach> zakame: I archived it
<dholbach> zakame: it had no reply for more than a month
<zakame> dholbach: ok, gotta update my revu page :D
<zakame> ajax-ing revu would be great though :D
<dholbach> TheMuso: is ardour2 on REVU really necessary?
<MrDumbo> anyway, I have to go... 
<dholbach> using bzr for package reviews would be nice
<dholbach> TheMuso: (given that the new version is in as ardour already)
* zakame looks at menareants
<zakame> now sdlmame
* dholbach highfives zakame
<jussi01> evening all
<jussi01> hello dholbach
<dholbach> heya jussi01
<zakame> yo jussi01
<zakame> thanks dholbach
<jussi01> hey zakame
* jussi01 decides to look for a new progrm to package while he waits... any ideas?
<dholbach> jussi01: take a look at the bugs tagged as 'needs-packaging'
<pochu> And RFP in Debian :)
<jussi01> dholbach: yeah, will do, just thought someone might have a little something that they didnt have time to do...
<jussi01> pochu: of course :D
<shawarma> dholbach: You looked at system-config-samba a bit earlier. I've uploaded a new version with fixed dpatch and explained the libuser1-dev dependency. 
* zakame looks at emilnes
<shawarma> dholbach: Thanks for looking at it!
* zakame looks at sunflow
<TheMuso> dholbach: afaik I archived ardour2 ages ago on revu.
<TheMuso> dholbach: Espeak-data is arch specific, as it needs to be either little or big endian.
<dholbach> shawarma: ok, will look at it again
<dholbach> TheMuso: ah ok
<dholbach> TheMuso: I'll archive it now - it's still there
<TheMuso> dholbach: Done already.
<dholbach> ok
<TheMuso> I ts popped up again, because someone commented on it.
<TheMuso>  /c
<TheMuso> gah
<dholbach> ok, the page looks better and better
<dholbach> if you all have some spare minutes, please help out :)
<zakame> salut jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hi
<zakame> hmm folks aren't using the debian/changelog effectively
* zakame looks at freevo
* zakame looks at gconf-cleaner
* jussi01 says wow! you guys are really rocking on revu comments today! well done!
* zakame looks at olive
<jussi01> gah, i hate launch pad... how do you search bugs by tag?
<StevenK> jussi01: Click the Advanced search link
* zakame looks at tablelist
* jussi01 asks StevenK where is that? Am I blind? I go to launchpad, click bugs... then?
* zakame looks at gnono
<geser> jussi01: go to the Ubuntu bug list, expand Tags on the left side, and click on the tag you want
<zakame> would be nice if it were a tagcloud though, long tag list is long
<jussi01> yeah, is true
<jsgotangco> yes its one of the things i hate most
* zakame looks at alsa-firmware
* zakame looks at wired
* zakame looks at cyclictest
* zakame looks at debomatic
* zakame looks at kbib
* zakame looks at system-config-samba
<zakame> wb \sh
* zakame looks at gnofract4d
* zakame takes a break
<lionel> There is a MOTU Q/A session on classroom now?
<pochu> lionel: There is
<zakame> hmm xmms2 now builds, but fails on amd64
<zakame> > default/src/plugins/sid/sidplay_wrapper.o: relocation R_X86_64_32S against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
<zakame> > default/src/plugins/sid/sidplay_wrapper.o: could not read symbols: Bad value
<xxxxx1> morning people!
<jussi01> morning xxxxx1
<jussi01> FAR OUT!!... :( :( :(
<xxxxx1> :)
<jussi01> I just had my upload rejected...
<jussi01> oh well, I gues i just have to go fix it...
<Hobbsee> jussi01: which one?
<jussi01> mnemosyne Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> why?
<Hobbsee> licencing?
<jussi01> some small copyright issue
<jussi01> yeah
<jussi01> I've just rejected the mnemosyne upload to gutsy. Some pyqt_ui files
<jussi01> have work from "Jarno Elonen <elonen@iki.fi>" who is not mentionned to
<jussi01> debian/copyright, could you fix that and upload a new revision?
<jussi01> does that mean, just have to add him to the copyrights?
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<xxxxx1> hello DarkSun88 
<zakame> heya jussi01
<jussi01> hi zakame
<leonel> hello  everyone
<jussi01> hi leonel
<jussi01> wha... is it wake up tim in the us or smthing?
<Hobbsee> likely, yeah
<leonel> in mx  is ...
<zakame> yo leonel
<leonel> hey zakame
<leonel> I'm trying  to make  a debootstrap gutsy  in feisty  but says I don't have  the gutsy script 
<zakame> have you updated/
<zakame> ?
<bluekuja> leonel, anyway when you mark a merge in progress, dont wait 2 weeks to do it
<RainCT> hi
<bluekuja> (talking about dbmail)
<xxxxx1> leonel: update your debootstrap
<leonel> bluekuja: ok  I'll quit then
<bluekuja> leonel, I've seen it "to do" on mom and I did it
<bluekuja> leonel, you can close your bug then
<bluekuja> and thanks for working on it
* zakame is thinking up of putting something like a ubuntu-chan imageboard
<leonel> bluekuja: I've spent this time  finding a way to fix dapper's clamav to take  that  merge   but if you need that merge to be done  I'll quit  clamav  or dbmail  
<bluekuja> leonel, no clamav is ok
<bluekuja> I just done dbmail
<bluekuja> so feel free to do clamav
<bluekuja> ;)
<zakame> then we'll probably have image macros for REVU day and HUG day :D
<leonel> then remove me  from dbmail
<Hobbsee> zakame: hrm?
<bluekuja> leonel, kk
<zakame> Hobbsee: just idling, or prepping up for another REVU round :)
<zakame> but first, wash dishes...
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> REVUing just makes things sit in the NEW queue for longer
<leonel> xxxxx1: I've just installed debootstrap 
<leonel> xxxxx1: says    no such script   /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/gutsy
<zakame> leonel: debootstrap from feisty-updates?
<xxxxx1> xxxxx1: yep. probably your debootstrap is out-of-date
<xxxxx1> No packages found matching deboostrap.
<xxxxx1> ops
<xxxxx1> ii  debootstrap    0.3.3.3ubuntu3~feisty1 Bootstrap a basic Debian system
<xxxxx1> :)
<zakame> yes, that's from feisty-updates
<xxxxx1> leonel: paste your version
<leonel> xxxxx1: 0.3.3.2ubuntu3    but I have  feisty-updates enabled .
<Hobbsee> feisty debootstrap wouldnt know about gutsy
<Hobbsee> (and why are you wanting to debootstrap anyway?
<Hobbsee> )
<StevenK> I managed to debootstrap gutsy by symlinking gutsy to feisty
<Hobbsee> i was about ot point tha tout
<shawarma> zakame: Could you take another peek at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5521 ? That would be much appreciated.
<leonel> Hobbsee: to use it instread  booting  a virtual server  ..
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Beat you. :-P
* Hobbsee beats StevenK 
<Hobbsee> leonel: chroot is easier, imo.
<xxxxx1> nope. the last version of deboostrap for feisty have gutsy script too
<Hobbsee> or last time i checked
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Ouch!
<xxxxx1> is in feisty-backports
<Hobbsee> oh neat
<xxxxx1> leonel: is in feisty-backports
<Hobbsee> for those of you who actually *run* backports, yes.
<leonel> xxxxx1: ok thanks
<xxxxx1> :P
<xxxxx1> Hobbsee: *little* detail :>
* Hobbsee should *really* check if her feisty still boots.
<leonel> xxxxx1: thanks
<Hobbsee> rather, yes.
<mok0> Are you people using cdbs for package building?
<xxxxx1> mok0: yep. many packages are using
<mok0> It seems like development on it has stopped
<mok0> Latest commit I can find is 3 years old
<shawarma> mok0: How do you figure that?
<shawarma> mok0: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/c/cdbs/cdbs_0.4.49ubuntu1/changelog
<mok0> 15:24 -!- Subhuman [n=jack@host86-139-44-50.range86-139.btcentralplus.com]  has  quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 
<mok0> 15:24 < mok0> Latest commit I can find is 3 years old
<mok0> 15:24 < shawarma> mok0: How do you figure that?
<mok0> ge86-139.btcentralplus.com]  has  quit  [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 
<shawarma> 15:24 < shawarma> mok0: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/c/cdbs/cdbs_0.4.49ubuntu1/changelog
<mok0> ge86-139.btcentralplus.com]  has  quit  [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 
<shawarma> "If it works, don't fix it"
<mok0> Arrgh my mouse is failing me in cut/paste
<shawarma> But cdbs indeed *has* been updated in the last three years.
<Riddell> is there a reason for putting two spaces before Homepage in debian/control?
<persia> Riddell: It 1) ensures that the line is not broken, and 2) acts as a signal for automatic parsing on packages.ubuntu.com
<mok0> ge86-139.btcentralplus.com]  has  quit  [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 
<zakame> shawarma: great work, a little more improvement and its a go :)
<Riddell> persia: how does it manage 1)?
<zakame> Why isn't Homepage promoted to a full debian/control field?
<xxxxx1> mok0: https://code.launchpad.net/cdbs/
<persia> Riddell: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Description
<StevenK> zakame: That why lies madness.
<StevenK> way, even
<persia> zakame: It's relatively new (a couple of years), and not everything has a homepage.
* persia prefers why
<zakame> well it can be an optional field, maybe X-Homepage
<shawarma> zakame: I added the get-orig-source because a previous comment told me to. :)
<zakame> StevenK: lolsparta
<persia> zakame: If we did that, we'd need mangling to stay consistent with Debian.
<zakame> persia: yeah, I guess let Debian do it first then :)
<shawarma> zakame: I don't quite understand the third paragraph in your comment?
<persia> zakame: If you're curious about that, read debian-devel archives :)
<zakame> shawarma: get the SRPM, transform it into a .tar.gz, then make that the .orig tarball; note it in README.Debian and in the changelog
<persia> Rather README.Debian-source, no?
<shawarma> zakame: That's what the get-orig-source target does?
<zakame> if there's a system-config-samba-.+.tar.gz that exists separately of the SRPM, even better to grab that
<persia> shawarma: You still need a README.Debian-source, even if it just says "look at get-orig-source:"/
<zakame> shawarma: yeah, but instead do it manually
<shawarma> zakame: This is not something that the buildd are going to do.. It's something one can do manually to verify that I didn't put stuff into it.
<persia> zakame: Why manually?
<shawarma> zakame: Well, of course I'd do it manually, too. I need to to so that I can upload my package.
<zakame> persia: less confusion, and get-orig-source is optional, after all; I'd prefer to have essential rules as much as possible
<shawarma> zakame: So you prefer no get-orig-source ?  I frankly don't care either way.
<persia> zakame: Ah.  I'm a strong believer in get-orig-source, as 1) it's easier for the paranoid to verify, and 2) it makes package update much easier (for a well written get-orig-source).  I use it like one might use uupdate (although it requires manual changelog update).
<zakame> shawarma: up to you then
<persia> shawarma: Either way, you still need README.Debian-source.
<zakame> persia: there is already uscan for that
<persia> zakame: Doesn't work very well for RCS snapshots :)
<persia> (or bz2 dists, or rpm conversions, etc.)
<zakame> ah, well there's no argument for RCS snapshots then
<shawarma> persia: Just added that.
<zakame> persia: but get-orig-source can only work against the current upstream version for a specific package, right?  adding more logic on that rule just to emulate what uupdate/uscan does is overkill
<leonel> debootstrap for gutsy in feisty  working ... didn't had  feisty-backports  enabled 
<leonel> thanks
<persia> zakame: Depends.  I tend to use something like that documented in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/CommonPackagingMistakes/ChangingTheOrigTarball, which isn't that much logic.
<zakame> interesting
<persia> zakame: The idea being to leverage uscan where possible, and emulate some of it where not, but to not have to go through a manual process for each update.
<icf7> What should be the initial changelog entry?
<persia> icf7: "Intial Upload (LP: #bugnumber)"
<icf7> persia: Thanks, zakame said the opposite. What should the bug on Launchpad contain?
<zakame> icf7: I said the opposite because initial ubuntu changes ought to be documented, as should all subsequent changes afterward
<persia> icf7: Amusingly, zakame and I have different opinions (both usually correct) about many things.  If you listen to me, the bug should be a "needs-packaging" bug on launchpad, set to "In Progress" and assigned to you.
<zakame> persia: actually I'm beginning to agree about the get-orig-source bits
<zakame> :_
<zakame> :)
<persia> In this case, I think I agree with zakame, that any patches or special adjustments needed for packaging should be noted.  For a package that works without anything fancy, you can probably simplify.
<zakame> brb, washing dishes :D
<persia> zakame: It's the process of debate that leads to a good answer.  I'm not sure it's a good thing that we're both moving towards agreement :)
<zakame> thanks persia for the link :)
<shawarma> zakame, persia: There. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5522 Now it has both get-orig-source and a README.Debian-source. Are we happy?
<persia> zakame: It's one of my pet notes.  If you have a good candidate for a RPM conversion, it would be nice to have that too, as the only one I've seen needs a lot of manual work for an upgrade.
* persia looks
<zakame> persia: well it makes sense for the RCS case; when there are no pre-existing snapshot tarballs the get-orig-source becomes essential :)
<persia> zakame: Exactly.
<persia> shawarma: I don't see anything blocking, but the README.Debian-source feels different than those I've seen before (although I don't have a good example), and the get-orig-source would be better abstracted so it didn't need manual update each time (and a watch file might also be good).  All of these could as well be addressed in a later revision.
<soc> hi
<shawarma> persia: did I just hear you say "ACK"? :)
<icf7> another question: How do I set up uscan to work according to the Debian policy so that it works in any directory? Is it intended to temporarily cd to the right directory and run uscan?
<persia> shawarma: Hrm.  Let me download and run the standard tests...
<persia> icf7: In what context?  Usually uscan is run from the package base directory.
<shawarma> persia: Actually, I've never notived neither get-orig-source nor README.Debian-source in any package before. 
<icf7> persia: I wanted to use uscan in rules:get-orig-source, is that wrong?
<persia> shawarma: Google gives 5000 results for README.Debian-source.  One of these might be a good example.  It's only distributed in the source package, and only sometimes (README.Debian-source is "should" and get-orig-source is at the whim of the maintainer).
<shawarma> persia: Oh, it's only in the source package? 
<shawarma> persia: I made mine install it.
<persia> icf7: You only want get-orig-source if you repack the orig.tar.gz.  If you're doing that, take a look at the example in the wiki.
<icf7> persia: Ok, thank you
<persia> shawarma: Ah, You don't want to install it - it's just for people investigating the source.
<shawarma> persia: Ok, then. When you check the package, just ignore it. When I upload it will be gone.
<persia> shawarma: OK, or if you are fast, I'll just grab the new diff.gz & dsc
<shawarma> persia: There's not point in uploading it to REVU again, if that's all there's wrong.
<shawarma> persia: I'm not. :)
<persia> shawarma: Right.  Sounds fine to me.
<shawarma> persia: Just ping me when/if you're satisfied with the package.
<persia> shawarma: I'm just guessing that you already satisfied ScottK?  I don't understand the python bits.
<colinl> hi! does anyone know what's the use of such a package? http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/virtual/claws-mail
<shawarma> persia: I think I've argumented sufficiently for my packacing with regard to the python policy. I've also got examples of other packages that do the same thing.
<persia> colinl: It's a leftover from some snapshot packaging - it allows plugins that worked with both claws and claws^snapshot to work.
<persia> shawarma: OK.
<colinl> persia: I see - but how comes I can find no real related package (snapshot or not) on packages.ubuntu.com ?
<persia> colinl: In part because claws had some issues lately, and in part because the snapshot merge happened some time back.  The package may no longer be useful (although I haven't investigated in recent releases).
<colinl> persia: thanks. do you know where I can find buildbot logs or any other relevant info about these issues?
<Riddell> persia: thanks (for Homepage link)
<icf7> persia: Sorry for searching the wrong way, but I can't find any repackaging example on wiki.ubuntu.com. COuld you give me a pointer?
<persia> shawarma: 1) If you're moving the icon, you shouldn't create /usr/share/pixmaps, and 2) if you could extract the changelog from system-config-samba.spec and dump it (compressed) to /usr/share/doc/$package, it would be great (these are linda errors).
<persia> icf7: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/CommonPackagingMistakes/ChangingTheOrigTarball
<persia> colinl: I'm really not sure how to easily hunt those down for virtual packages, sorry.
<colinl> np. I suppose things will get sorted out eventually :)
<colinl> thanks for your answers!
<dholbach> thanks lionel for running the Q&A session
<shawarma> persia: Am I moving the icon?
<lionel> dholbach: no pb
<persia> shawarma: My mistake.  I thought you were from 05_fixperms.dpatch, but looking more closely, it appears to be an upstream bug.  The makefile defines PKGIMAGEDIR, but doesn't use it when creating directories, and fails to include a '/' in `install pixmaps/*.png $(DESTDIR)$(PKGIMAGEDIR)`. which has odd results.
<icf7> persia: This example requires a newer uscan than the one in feisty. Should I develop in gutsy by now?
<persia> icf7: How doesn't it work?  I believe that example was developed on a feisty system.
<icf7> persia: --force-download is not available
* icf7 updates his system
<persia> icf7: I'm sorry.  I remembered it being developed in April, but I guess it was just as the gutsy archives opened, and the developer tracked that.  Sorry for the confusion.
<zakame> back from washing dishes :)
<persia> zakame: I had a thought about the uscan case (bz2).  Could the output of `uscan --report-status` be parsed to determine $(VER)?
<zakame> probably, lemme check
<shawarma> persia: I don't get these errors from linda? 
<persia> shawarma: I got the output from `linda -v -f long -t E,I,W,X system-config-samba_1.2.35-0ubuntu1_amd64.changes`, but I'd guess the same would come from any architecture.
<shawarma> persia: I thought -t was supposed to *limit* the output, but I get *more* warnings, when I use your command line.
<persia> shawarma: Yep  "-t" limits the output to the selected types, but the default types are not all of E,I,W,X :)  My command line tells linda to be as verbose as she can be.
<shawarma> persia: Gah... 
<shawarma> persia: I've been missing out all this time!
<leonel> once a merge is done  how long takes to be available  to install  ?
<persia> shawarma: use `lintian -iIv` for the equivalent from a perl perspective.
<zakame> gaah, uscan is too verbose for use in scripting :/
<persia> leonel: After the merge, it is uploaded, built, and then distributed.  Depending on the builds (and failures therein), this may take as much as a month.
<leonel> persia: thanks
<persia> zakame: That was my problem too :)  I was hoping you might know some nifty make trick to collect only the right information.
<zakame> there are blocks caused by FTBFSes as well, check xmms2 for instance.
<persia> leonel: I forgot about xmms2 - ignore the part about "as much as a month".  There's not really a limit.
<zakame> persia: something ugly like `uscan --report | grep ^Newest | awk '{print $7}'`, needing to chop off the trailing comma
<luisbg> where can I read about what debian/install does?
<zakame> apropos dh_install
<zakame> x/apropos/c/man/
<persia> zakame: So, "VER:=$(shell uscan --report | grep ^Newest | cut -f 7)" might work?  On the other hand, I suddenly realise that doing something like this would defeat the point of get-orig-source, and instead be a get-newest-source.  Thanks though :)
<zakame> yeah, get-newest-source would be more like it hehe
* persia fails to update the wiki
<jussi01> hello persia
<persia> hi jussi01
<persia> jussi01: Did you find a new package earlier, or are you still looking?
<jussi01> no, didnt find, still looking... but i need to fix mnemosyne
<zakame> hmmm, if we know at the time of the get-orig-source call about the md5sum of the original source, shouldn't we use that to verify if the source we indeed get later is the right and trusted source?
<luisbg> thanks a lot zakame 
<jussi01> persia: did you see earlier?
<shawarma> persia: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5523 There.
<persia> zakame: That fails whenever get-orig-source is required, as gzip --best is not guaranteed to generate the same md5sum twice in a row.
<zakame> immediately, at the rule's call?
<shawarma> persia: ffs... hang on.
* persia wonders if the md5sum of the originally downloaded file belongs in README.Debian-source when there is an available snapshot.
<persia> shawarma: Too late.  Already built :)  Let me know when you want me to grab a new one.
* zakame looks at mtpaint
<persia> zakame: No, the rule won't fail, just the md5sum of the orig.tar.gz will only match by accident (and md5sum is designed to make this rare), so the user cannot use it for verification.
<shawarma> persia: You can take a look at it. All I've changed now is I've renamed the upstream changelog to changelog.gz (from changelog.upstream.gz).
<shawarma> persia: Unless you find anything else I won't bother with uploading to REVU.
<soc> hi one question about gimp
<soc> i updated it with uupdate to 2.3.18
<soc> whats the command to configure, make, package it?
<persia> shawarma: Since that's the only remaining error, I'm happy.  Please upload again, just so my ACK is on a clean package :)
<mok0> soc!!!
<soc> yeah it's me :-)
<soc> i decided to just build a package for now, without messing too much
<persia> soc: debuild for local build, pbuilder for traball build, or sbuild for schroot build.
<persia> s/tra/tar/
<soc> if that works i'll start to modify it piece by piece
<soc> ok, so just debuild
<soc> without arguments?
<zakame> persia: ah... I was rather hoping the rule would immediately fail at the md5sum mismatch, instead of propagating to dpkg-source(?)
<bluekuja> persia: heya
<soc> do i need fakeroot for that=
<soc> or sudo?
<bluekuja> persia: gonna take care of that missing .desktop you mentored
<jussi01> persia: did you see my message about mnemosyne earlier?
<zakame> fakeroot
<bluekuja> persia: it has been assigned to me
<persia> zakame: I think that's part of why get-orig-source is so optional at this point - it's not really decided yet (in Debian) how to do it right.
<shawarma> Any revu admins around? I need to have system-config-samba* removed from incoming (ctrl-c by accident)
<persia> bluekuja: Great.  Thanks.  Let me know if you need any help.
<mok0> How come the debdiffs on revu seem reversed?
<persia> shawarma: I'll take care of it.
<bluekuja> persia: seems easy, gonna have results this evening/night
<shawarma> persia: Oh, great. Didn't know you were "one of them" :)
<bluekuja> persia: ;)
<zakame> persia: indeed, still, its a great help for the situations you listed :)
<mok0> It seems my fixes are getting removed :)
<DarkSun88> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25550/
<persia> shawarma: Cleaned.  I'm not actually an admin, but I can help :)
<DarkSun88> Is there errors in this debdiff?
<DarkSun88> s/Is/Are
<shawarma> persia: interesting... :)
<mok0> Anyways: I have a new upload on revu (upid=5478) that I seek further review on...
<persia> mok0: Are you looking at the URL of the latest upload?
<soc> mh sudo debuild tells me that:
<soc> build conflicts: libgimp2.0
<mok0> I'll check...
<persia> DarkSun88: it's hard to tell from a pastebin.  Does it apply cleanly (with `patch -p1 < ../mydebiff` from the package directory?
<DarkSun88> No, I'll do.
<mok0> persia: yes
<persia> mok0: Which URL?
<shawarma> persia: Final version is up: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5524
<DarkSun88> persia: I've compiled with a server and tells me this: http://packages.linuxdc.it/gutsy/result/vpnc_0.4.0-3ubuntu1/vpnc_0.4.0-3ubuntu1_i386.build
<mok0> persia: Ah! I didn't get that yet
<mok0> persia: I am rambling
<mok0> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5495
<mok0> persia: I got confused by your message to shawarma...
<persia> DarkSun88: It looks like one of the patches doesn't apply cleanly.  My guess would be that something in 06_stolen_from_head modified a line that affected 07_gcc_optimizations.  You'll need to clean up the latter to match the changes in the former.
<DarkSun88> persia: I'll check it. Thanks a lot.
* zakame looks at popstation
<persia> shawarma: Advocated :)
<shawarma> persia: Great. Uploaded. :)
<shawarma> persia: Thanks a million, dude.
<persia> shawarma: Don't forget to archive and send the REVU mail to ubuntu-motu@ :)
<shawarma> persia: after the dev-team meeting. :)
<persia> mok0: The debdiff links are reverse debdiffs to previous versions.  Your would be reverted if these were applied, but it's handy for reviewers to see what changed.  Take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5459 if you want to see forward debdiffs.
<persia> shawarma: No rush - just a reminder, as the docs are sparse :)
<persia> bluekuja: Did you check that .desktop with desktop-file-validate 0.13?  The updated spec is now implemented.
* zakame looks at emelfm2
<bluekuja> persia, currently finishing another thing, gonna move there soon
<bluekuja> persia, gonna ping you when done, dont worry
<bluekuja> ;)
* persia was just reading mail, and saw an attached file
<bluekuja> I didnt added it
<bluekuja> *add
<bluekuja> maurizio did
<bluekuja> I think
<persia> bluekuja: My apologies - I'm not looking carefully enough :)
<bluekuja> persia: :)
* zakame looks at fische
<zakame> hmm, why a 299KB diff?
<zakame> grr kate-in-konqueror should have better folding for aggregated diffs :/
<bluekuja> zakame, huh?
<bluekuja> zakame, which diff?
<zakame> bluekuja: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/fische-0705270805/fische_2.0-0ubuntu1.diff
<bluekuja> zakame, leave it, gonna be synced from debian
<bluekuja> ;)
<zakame> should be nuked from REVU then ;)
<bluekuja> zakame, yup
<bluekuja> should be archived
<persia> bluekuja: If you're going to sync, please add a comment on REVU, so that nobody starts reviewing. (sometimes packages get reviewed without announcement, especially on REVU DAY).
<bluekuja> persia, yeah, gonna add it now
* zakame moves on to kopete-otr
<Hobbsee> archived
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, thanks ;)
<luisbg> "dpkg-deb: building package `ubuntustudio-menu' in `../ubuntustudio-menu_0.1_all.deb'." <-- but not deb in the .. folder ... :S
<shawarma> persia: I'm an idiot. How do I archive stuff on REVU?
<zakame> shawarma: there's an archive button on each row at the main page
<zakame> one for each package
<shawarma> zakame: Not on my machine, there isn't...
<Hobbsee> shawarma: if you're listed as a reviewer
<persia> shawarma: First comment, then archive (commenting automatically unarchives).  Archiving is done from the front page.
<persia> luisbg: Does it claim to build, but doesn't generate the .deb?  Is the source somewhere one may look at it?
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Reviewer? Hmm.. That might be it.
<luisbg> persia, can upload it to bzr if you want to look at it
<persia> luisbg: Sure, if you want another eye.
<persia> shawarma: I'll archive it :)
<luisbg> persia, sure thanks! give me a sec
<shawarma> persia: Thanks!
<bddebian> Heya gang
* zakame looks at python-coverage
<zakame> yo bddebian! :D
<bddebian> Hi zakame
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Being a reviewer means being member of some team, right? which team is that exactly?
<Hobbsee> shawarma: ask siretart 
<Hobbsee> it's not a LP team
<persia> bddebian: I'm about to upload a fix for bug #119887: do you have any reservations about this?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119887 in apt-file "merged package contains spurious files" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119887
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Ah, ok then.
<bddebian> persia: No, thanks!
<persia> shawarma: You don't need to be in any more teams than you already are, but you need a REVU-admin to add you.
<persia> bddebian: Thanks for the confirmation :)
<shawarma> persia: Ok. thanks for clarifying. I thought I was going nuts as I couldn't see that archive button :)
<bddebian> Sorry I've been out of the picture lately but I suppose that's probably good for you all ;-P
<shawarma> Glad to have you back, bddebian.
<persia> bddebian: Not really : REVU has missed you
<bddebian> shawarma: I'm probably not "back" until after July but thanks! :-)
<persia> zakame: After looking at the most recent REVU upload notice, I am completely changing my advice on initial changelogs.  Thanks.
<zakame> persia: works both ways :) I find the get-orig-source option something worth considering to include :)
* persia adds a "Best Packaging Practices" document to the documentation wishlist
<beuno> persia: +1
<beuno> I''ve been downloading packages from Ubuntu to get them into Debian
<beuno> and it's been a nightmare  :(
<zakame> hmm like kayaking upstream
<beuno> zakame: something like that  :D
<shawarma> beuno: Why? Too many packages? Too crappy?
<persia> beuno: You're probably getting the best feedback.  Would you mind starting a page on the wiki (Category MOTU, under /MOTU/Packages/ namespace)?  I'd be happy to add comments, and later formalise and prettify.
<beuno> shawarma: *very* badly packaged, non working packages at all (dependencies that don't compile)
<beuno> etc etc etc
<beuno> persia: I'm getting a LOT of feedback here
<persia> beuno: Also, if you have time, and can take a look at our reviewing practices, I'm sure we could learn to make your job easier :)
<beuno> the @ubuntu.com address in my nametag gets me a lot of feedback   :D
<luisbg> persia, http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~luisbg/freemix/base/files/bethencourt%40gmail.com-20070614153440-29evu6xpbquexu00?file_id=ubuntustudiomenu-20070614153254-omrhjatjx93najmz-1
<bddebian> hehe
<luisbg> persia, thankss!!
<persia> beuno: heh :)  Even a very rough list would be a great help in getting started.
<persia> luisbg: I'll take a look in a few minutes.  Thanks.
<beuno> persia: I'd live to get involved, yes
<beuno> I believe much more attention should be paid
<luisbg> persia, thanks to you ;)
<beuno> and a clear way to remove a crappy package
<beuno> I've been filing some bugs against them
<beuno> but I'm nopt sure that will get them removed
<beuno> I'm also trying to fix them, uplaod them into debian so t hey get downloaded properly
<siretart> shawarma: it is a flag in the postgres database on tiber
<persia> beuno: There is a mechanism for package removal.  If there are any you want sheparded, please send me a list in email.
<beuno> I do think a team specially created for that would help a lot
<beuno> persia: great, I will gather a list  :D
<persia> beuno: Thanks.
<shawarma> siretart: I see. Could it be because I've started to use another e-mail to log in? I believe i used to see the archive button..
<siretart> shawarma: right. revu accounts are just emails, and only that
<shawarma> siretart: Ok. could you promote soren@ubuntu.com, perhaps?
<beuno> persia: how can it be that there is a package that doesn't work at all in the repos?
<bluekuja> persia: that desktop file is ok, only thing is about encoding that seems to be deprecated now
<persia> beuno: <70 MOTUs >10,000 universe packages.
<persia> bluekuja: Right, so we should delete that line.
<bluekuja> persia: yup
<beuno> persia: I'm trying to get a Debian Collaboration Team back together (it's part of my purpose here), and I believe that would also be part of getting things straightened out
<beuno> https://launchpad.net/~dct
<Hobbsee> beuno: talked to white?
<persia> beuno: I hope so.  I'm looking forward to a reinvigorated DCT.
<zakame> just checking: we can override Makefile rules right? not just appending to them...
<beuno> Hobbsee: white?
<Hobbsee> beuno: debian dev.  interested in the same thing
<beuno> persia: I've been trying to, but I'm not getting much help
<Hobbsee> beuno: utnubu stuff
<beuno> Hobbsee: no, but Ill track him down
<persia> beuno: What do you need?
<beuno> I've been emailing the DCT mailing list
<beuno> and contacting specific people
<beuno> persia: first thing is to reorganize objectives to a more "possible" objective
<beuno> then start actually doing it and recruiting
<beuno> I'd say 50% of the work has to do with coordinating teams and people
<ScottK-laptop> beuno: Debian Python Modules Team has been very open to Ubuntu people joining and participating.
<beuno> ScottK-laptop: yes they have, I've seen several teams working together, and that's great!
<beuno> some work is being done quietly
<persia> beuno: I don't follow the mailing list too closely (only reviewing archives 1/month or so), but I thought there was positive response to your efforts.  Could you not just update the wiki page, build a community of interested parties (an IRC channel may or may not help for this), and dig in?
<persia> MOTU-Games is now entirely within Debian-games as well.
<beuno> I also think we should have a very clear and complete FAQ For DDs mocked up so they can understand what happens with there work, how Ubuntu works inside, and how they can help or get help
<beuno> persia: yeap, that is exactly what I'm going to do
<beuno> I've just been doing a little bit of everything, got 2 packages in NEW waiting after a few days of learning
<beuno> it's great to be surounded by geeks  :D
<persia> beuno: That's a good idea, but I would recommend that such a FAQ be built in collaboration with the attempts to reinvigorate utnubu, just to make sure DCT and Utnubu procedures are in sync, and everything is smooth.
<beuno> persia: yeap, it's a wiki, so we jkust have to make sure they know about it
<siretart> shawarma: done
<beuno> gather whatever questions they mnay have
<beuno> and get them answered
<shawarma> siretart: ta
<beuno> which many times takes me to very long and rocky trips :D
<siretart> in fact, I think Hobbsee/persia could have done that as well
<siretart> /srv/revu1-production/scripts/alter_user.py -e soren@ubuntu.com -lreviewer
<siretart> is the command line
<Hobbsee> ah right
<persia> siretart: Cool.  Thanks.  Could you stick that in /etc/motd to make it easy to remember?
<beuno> I'll brb, going to a BoF
<beuno> not wsure if I have wireless
<siretart> persia: please try it to check that there are no problems with file permissions
<infinito> hi
<infinito> can anyone take a look at this file, to see it its license would eb aproblem for inclusion on ubuntu? http://svn.infinicode.org/index.cgi/pyrenamer/trunk/pyrenamer/src/TreeViewTooltips.py?revision=5&view=markup
<persia> siretart: Is it safe to re-run for the same ID?
<infinito> im not very good at license policies
<siretart> persia: should be. the script does only do things in the postgresdb
<persia> siretart: "Altering soren@ubuntu.com to level reviewer", so I'm guessing it works.
<siretart> yes, looks file
<persia> Anyone have an opinion on running `apt-file update` in apt-file postinst?
<mok0>  infinito: Looks like there are no restrictions whatsoever, so it should be OK
<beuno_> ok, in the BoF room  :D
<infinito> mok0: should i add something to copyright fiel about this license?
<infinito> s/fiel/file
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: The license is fine.  For debian/copyright you should include the full text of the license.
<infinito> ScottK: ok, thanks!
<mok0> infinito: I am no expert, but I would regard this as an "artistic" license
<persia> infinito: For comparison, look at the BSD license - it's nearly the same.
<xxxxx1> y
<xxxxx1> s/y//g
<xxxxx1> :)
<infinito> so in the copyright file i should use something like: for the file blablabla the license is: blablabla
<persia> mok0: Except that Artistic sources can be put in the public domain, whereas that cannot.
<siretart> persia: done
<persia> siretart: Thanks.
<infinito> so the copyright file should be like this? http://pastebin.ca/566713
<persia> luisbg: sbuild makes a deb for me.  On what archicture were you compiling?
<luisbg> persia, i686
<luisbg> or x86
<luisbg> however you were expecting me to say it =)
<persia> luisbg: Strange.  I was actually expecting amd64, as that doesn't build architecture all packages by default.  Now I'm confused as to why it doesn't work for you.
<luisbg> persia, I'm doing... debuild -S ; sudo pbuilder build ../*.dsc
<persia> Could someone familiar with pbuilder please help luisbg?  I cannot replicate the problem with sbuild.
<luisbg> persia, wait... I think I'm only doing the source package
<luisbg> let me check something
<luisbg> persia, tell me how you do with sbuild
<luisbg> and why sbuild instead of pbuilder?
<Hobbsee> where are you checking for the resulting deb?
<zakame> gn8 all
<persia> luisbg: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto and `sbuild -A -d gutsy ubuntustudio-menu_0.1.dsc`
<persia> luisbg: sbuild is just my personal preference (it's what the buildds use).  pbuilder is also fine.
<luisbg> persia, ok =) just wanted to know if I should think about switching a little bit more
<persia> luisbg: No need to switch.
<luisbg> anyone familiar with pbuilder around?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> you never answered my question, though
<Hobbsee> luisbg: ^
<luisbg> ahhhh sorry Hobbsee, didn't saw the question :S
<persia> In the absence of dissention, I'm configuring apt-file to run update in the postinst.
<luisbg> I'm checking in .. of where I run pbuilder, that is the folder where the .dsc hangs around 
<Hobbsee> you need to check in /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<luisbg> :( that was dumb
<luisbg> sorry about that
<luisbg> ok... now a more tricky question
<luisbg> I'm creating a directory /usr/share/ubuntustudio-menu/ and then moving our applications.menu file there, how do I tell gnome to use this one instead of the one used by default in /usr/share/app-install/desktop
<Hobbsee> no problem
<luisbg> ?
<persia> luisbg: You can't really.  You need to put things in /etc/xdg/menus, but I think those are conffiles, which means you can't actually edit anything already there.
<luisbg> I'm looking at the package edubuntu-menus, and I see where he places the .menu file, but not how he changes gnome
<luisbg> should I just move to /etc/xdg/menus ?
<eletido> can someone link me to a summary of the process of getting a package into universe?
<persia> You might want to morror edubuntu, but there are probably other parts to that solution (it's certainly beyond my understanding of how gnome-menus works).
<eletido> nvm, found what i was looking for.
<mok0> clear
<infinito> can anyone take a little time to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5528 ??
<pochu> dholbach: will the meeting be here, or in -meeting? In the mail you say here...
<dholbach> urg
<dholbach> #ubuntu-meeting of course
<dholbach> thinko
<Hobbsee> dholbach: meeting?  what meeting?  when?
<dholbach> followed up
<dholbach> "later" MOTU meeting
<pochu> Hobbsee: MOTU meeting, tomorrow 13 UTC
<Hobbsee> pochu: define "tomorrow"
<crimsun> Fri 15 Jun
<Hobbsee> tomorrow is a relative term, please specify a day or date.
<Hobbsee> thankyou
<pochu> Hobbsee: aren't you subscribed to ubuntu-motu@ ?
<Hobbsee> oh goody, i'll actually be alive then.  hopefully.
<Hobbsee> pochu: i am - hadnt checked my email in the last hour, and there's nothing in the topic about it
<persia> Hobbsee: now+20h
<Hobbsee> cool, yeah.  11pm local, it looks like
<persia> infinito: I can't give the package proper review (python packaging confuses me), but you probably want to add a note at the bottom of debian/copyright detailing the licensing applicable for the packaging, and you definitely want to List the "needs-packaging" bug in LP as closed.  (If a bug doesn't exist, create it, set to "In Progress", and assign yourself.
<infinito> persia: i dont understand the thing about the license note...
<infinito> sorry
<persia> infinito: There's a good example at the bottom of http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html
<dholbach> ScottK: I think it makes more sense, if you start off a clamav discussion on ubuntu-devel-discuss@
* persia thought adding agenda items for meetings one will not attend was discouraged, although empty agendas are not preferable.
<dholbach> ScottK: in a meeting without you and without the background - that does not work
<ScottK-laptop> dholbach: At the last meeting there was some discussion about looking at the API differences between libclamav1 and libclamav2.  I've got nothing to add to that (I'm hopelessly unqualified).  I'd suggest those of you who might do that, talk about who will do what and get it going.
<ScottK-laptop> persia: I think it needs constant pressure or we won't get it fixed because it's a REALLY hard problem.
<dholbach> it'd be nice to have a list of stuff that needs backporting etc
<leonel> ScottK-laptop: may be  can be done  as  with postgresql that we can have  8.2 and  8.1   installed  
<persia> ScottK: I agree, I'm just not sure that's the best venue.  Perhaps the mailing list, or a meeting that someone who is chasing it will attend.  Will any of the others working on it be able to attend?  Perhaps they could represent it.
<ScottK-laptop> leonel: That's basically what I proposed and the last meeting and got little traction.
* persia remembers encouragement to form a team and write a proposal
<RainCT> persia: hi. where should I write that comment about the Blueprint you said yersterday?
<persia> RainCT: Um.  Could you please feed me a little more context?  My heap is lossy.
<RainCT> persia:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/rosetta/+spec/rosetta-desktopfile-ui
<infinito> persia: already done both (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5530 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/120436)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120436 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  pyrenamer" [Undecided,In progress]  
<persia> infinito: Great!  Now you just need someone familiar with python packaging to review :)
<ScottK-laptop> dholbach: The list of stuff that would need to be backported with it is huge (too big).
<dholbach> really?
<crimsun> so how's revu day progressing?
* dholbach commented on a few and archived some more
<dholbach> the list should be clearer now
* dholbach mails the people whose uploads he archived
<persia> RainCT: I'd suggest starting by contacting the author of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaDesktopfileUi, and based on that discussion, updating the spec.
<ScottK-laptop> dholbach: Do apt-cache rdepends libclamav2 clamav clamav-daemon
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ apt-cache rdepends libclamav2 clamav clamav-daemon | grep -E ^' ' | xargs apt-cache showsrc | grep Package | sed 's/Package\:\ //g' | sort -u | wc -l
<dholbach> 28
<dholbach> that has clamav and clamav-data included
<persia> Could someone please confirm that http://pastebin.ca/566861 looks like a sensible postinst?
<crimsun> for what package
<persia> crimsun: apt-file
<crimsun> whew
<persia> heh
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: I'm looking at your package.
<infinito> ScottK: thanks :)
<persia> I'm just worried about completeness of syntax, so as not to break anything debhelper might want to do (the package previously had no seed).
<crimsun> persia: if it doesn't spew ridiculous to std*, then sure.  I'm a bit hesitant on having the package status hinge on an live 'net connection, but that's just me.
<persia> crimsun: I'd agree with that reservation.  Is there a standard safe way to check for a network connection prior to attempting to connect?
<shawarma> persia: I forget. Was it also you who reviewed those perl packages of mine?
<persia> shawarma: Yep.  One was good, for the rest, I suggested you ask someone more knowledgeable about the linda output.
<shawarma> persia: Alright, and you uploaded that one, did you not?
<shawarma> persia: I got a reject mail about it, which I deleted in an inbox cleaning frenzy.
<crimsun> persia: a finite ping to the default gateway? Not sure.
<persia> shawarma: No.  Based on your guidelines, I advocated and expected you to upload.  Do you want me to upload?
<shawarma> persia: Nono, I'll do it.
<persia> crimsun: Thanks for the suggestion anyway.  I'll look through list archives: I seem to remember seeing this discussed in the past.
<persia> shawarma: Great.  Thanks.
<shawarma> persia: Oh, thank *you*.
* bddebian isn't needed anymore... :'-(
<crimsun> bddebian: what?
<persia> bddebian: You will always be needed
<bddebian> Ha, you da man now! :)
<crimsun> bddebian is handling alsa for gutsy, yay!
<bddebian> crimsun: hahaha.  I would be incapable even if I wanted to :_)
<crimsun> nah
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: Comment submitted.
<ScottK-laptop> bddebian: You are needed because no one is grinding through and giving a first set of REVU comments like you usually do when you aren't here.
<bddebian> Heh, heya ScottK-laptop
<infinito> ScottK: so u want me to remove the binary-install/pyrenamer... stuff ??
<infinito> ScottK-laptop:         ^
<persia> ScottK: Does that work without python-distutils?
<infinito> it seems that removing the binary-install/pyrenamer stuff doesn't work very well...
<infinito> the python stuff goes to /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pyrenamer instead of  /usr/share/python-support/pyrenamer
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.  It'd be much easier if upstream used distuils instead of a makefile.
<ScottK-laptop> persia: The package doesn't use distutils
<xxxxx1> hello bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya xxxxx1
<persia> ScottK: That's what I thought.  I just thought that binary-install/foo: was required when not using disutils.  Thanks for the clarification.
<bmm> persia: are you online? The "minor detail" I changed in the last update to perfect my package seems to be wrong http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5511
<ScottK-laptop> All he was doing in shi binary install was call dh_pysupport directly rather than tell cdbs what python system he was suinjg.
<bmm> Should I mention the dpatches in the changelog or not? I'm not sure what to do now.
<ScottK-laptop> err usung
<ScottK-laptop> bmm: If you are patching the source, it should be mentioned
<bmm> ScottK-laptop: so I should put that changelog line back? The only person who advocated the package so far, said it should be removed.
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: if i remove the dh_pysupport, it seems that pysupport is not using while building the deb
<ScottK-laptop> hmmm
<persia> bmm: Both are correct.  Zak has convinced me that documentation is good since my comment, but my advocation for either 5413 or 5511 stands.
<ScottK-laptop> did you add DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM=pysupport?
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: Are you upstream for this?
<infinito> yeps
<ScottK-laptop> Why use a makefile instead of a distutils setup.py?
<bmm> persia: Then I'll add the changelog line again, and see if that will get more people to advocate it ;-)
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: rules file http://pastebin.ca/566926
<vijay2000> hi all 
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: because im used to, and translations are easier with autotools...
<persia> bmm: It's too late those those far out on the pacific rim, but you might get lucky.
<vijay2000> i am trying to build notecase . i am getting the following error when i build http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25584/
<vijay2000> can anybody help me out 
<bmm> persia: what should I be learning from that line?
<ScottK-laptop> Hmmm.  I think it's goint to be tough to get the python tools to work right.  Let me play with it a bit...
<persia> bmm: The last commenter is away for the next several hours, so you don't have an opportunity to get a quick ACK from a reupload based on the last comment.  If you make a new upload, you might be able to get someone else who is currently actively reviewing packages.
<vijay2000> persia: can u help me out 
<bmm> persia: I'm willing to do anything (almost) for the package, so an upload is no problem.
<persia> vijay2000: Not really.  I'm soon to bed, and still have a list I need to hit before then.
<bmm> persia: I just need to know what to do: change it, or just wait another few days?
<shawarma> persia: Found the linda bug that made it break on the perl man pages..
<vijay2000> persia: no issues 
<persia> bmm: If someone else who commented on it would be willing to advocate based on the debian/changelog changes, I'd do a quick upload.  If not, I'd try to catch the last commenter in 10-12 hours, and see if they would ACK based on an upload.  Otherwise, I'd wait.
<persia> shawarma: Cool.  If you send the patch quick, and ping the maintainer in about 6 hours (usually), I suspect it might get into the upload that is being prepared.
<bmm> persia: thanks! I'll try to contact the commenter then and work from there, if that fails it will just give the package some more time :-D
<shawarma> persia: Oh, there's a linda update on the way?
<persia> shawarma: One was mentioned here in the last couple days.  I don't know how serious the upload planning is.
<shawarma> persia: Alright. It was due to '::' having a magic meaning during some checks. If '::' was in the filename, a line got split in the wrong place and everything blew up.
<persia> shawarma: definitely file a bug.  I'd suggest filing in Debian, as the maintainer doesn't check the Ubuntu status as often.
<shawarma> StevenK: Please apply http://people.ubuntu.com/~soren/fix_perl_manpages.diff to linda to stop it from breaking on perl man pages.
<shawarma> persia: It's StevenK, isn't it?
<persia> shawarma: Yes.
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: what does this mean? E: pyrenamer source: build-depends-indep-should-be-build-depends python-support (>= 0.3) 
<ScottK-laptop> It means you need to move python-support from build-depends-indep to build-depends
<bmm> Ibalon zakame or zachy , are you online?
<shawarma> persia: If you're bored, you could apply the patch to /usr/share/python-support/linda/linda/collector.py, check out my perl packages and advocate them.
<persia> shawarma: It's too late for me to take new activities tonight.  Sorry.
<shawarma> persia: Only if you're bored, though. You've helped me plenty today already.
<shawarma> persia: Quite alright.
* shawarma -> food!
* mok0 eats shawarma 
<stijn_pol> Hi everyone! 
<persia> Hi stijn_pol
<stijn_pol> persia: allright, it has been a while..
<persia> stijn_pol: Sorry about that.
<mok0> Why does help2man never work?
<mok0> I _always_ get: help2man: can't get `-h' info from 
<stijn_pol> persia: no, due to my exams, anyway: bug 120028, is this a bug to make a patch for. Or is this more a feature request that should be reported upstream?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120028 in drpython "Default save location" [Low,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120028
<persia> stijn_pol: Looks like a good one to me.  It's definitely a distribution level issue (for a change), so it should be a lot easier to see your changes distributed in the archive this time :)
* persia defers apt-file
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: i'm using the dh_pysupport directly because of this: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy#head-a9676f76c81944360eba13aa9bda1a7fcc7ad724
* ScottK-laptop looks
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: You were looking in the python-support section, but you need to look in the cdbs section.
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: The python-support section is written with a traditional debhelper rules file in mind and not CDBS.
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: im looking at CDBS + the hard way
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: OK
<infinito> ScottK: it says: "If your package does not uses distutils blablabla..."
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: Right.  I take back that part of the comment.
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: The way you had it is right for a non-distutils packages.
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: so im gonna upload it again right now with the other things fixed...
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: Your life will be a lot easier in the long run I think if you use distutils.
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  I'll look again.
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5532 ...i think it's fixed...
<mok0> I figured out the help2man problem, is anyone interested?
* ScottK-laptop looks
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: As a quick look, you didn't change the name of the binary to python-renamer
<ScottK-laptop> Binary Python packages are supposed to start with python-
* ScottK-laptop keeps looking
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: nops, should i? i mean, the app is called pyrenamer, no python-rename, it's not a python module, but a python app
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: Agreed.  I just read the Python policy over and I think you are fine.
<jrib> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5444 python module is new if anyone has a free minute or two.  Thanks
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: It's putting the files in python-support/pyrenamer/pyrenamer dir.  That doesn't seem right...
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: yeps, i see...
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: i don't know how to fix that...
<hendrixski> does anyone have a problem with their dchroot refusing to connect to the repositories after an arbitrary amount of time?
<hendrixski> I'm learning packaging inside of chroots so as not to risk my system... and like after 3 reboots it seems to not connect to apt anymore
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: I'm not either.  All the Python packages I've done used distutils.
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: i dont know how to use distutils :(
<hendrixski> infinito, http://docs.python.org/dist/
<ScottK-laptop> infinito: It's not so hard.  Take a look at setup.py in the pyyaml source package.
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: it seems normal behaviour, take a look for example to this: dpkg -L python-notify
<infinito> ScottK-laptop: it seems that it makes a dir for the package, and then a subdir for the class
* infinito thinks he explains himself very badly
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
(ScottK-laptop/#ubuntu-motu) Schitso: Others may have other ideas.
<mok_> What to do if a package does _not_ have any dependencies (statically linked binaries)
<ScottK-laptop> Don't list any
<mok_> Lintian complains
<ScottK-laptop> What package?
<mok_> It's the biomolecular toolkit (btk) that I am building
<mok_> not in the repo
<mok0> so there is no Depends: null rule ?
<ScottK-laptop> crimsun: I got the accept this time.
<Q-FUNK> mok0: even then, you'd need the generic libc dependency that's added with 
<Q-FUNK> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: Not that I mind or anything, but why'd you change the Maintainer field to you in libreadonly-perl?
<Q-FUNK> mok0: e2fsck-static seems to be a good example of a statically-linked package.  see if you can learn anything from it.?
<ScottK-laptop> shawarma: Probably because I message up.
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: First time, you forgot "-sa" it appears.
<ScottK-laptop> Yes
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: The "Maintainer" in .changes is the Maintainer from debian/control is it not?
<ScottK-laptop> shawarma: I think that's just in the .changes file, not in debian/control.
<ScottK-laptop> Not always
<shawarma> 8-|
<shawarma> really?
<shawarma> Changed-By is from debian/changelog.
<shawarma> ah..
<ScottK-laptop> shawarma: Look at man dpkg-buildpackage and -m
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: Yes, I was just about to say something to tha teffet.
<shawarma> that effect, even.
<shawarma> Sheesh, I'm typing like a.. well, a person who doesn't type very well.
<pochu> like a shawarma? :p
<shawarma> pochu: Right. Like "a shawarma" rather than "the shawarma". :)
<pochu> :-)
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: How about the other perl packages? Did you check them out?
<ScottK-laptop> Which?
<ScottK-laptop> The meeting I'm in is getting close to over, so I don't know how much looking I'll be able to do...
<shawarma> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5506 http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5507 http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5508 
* ScottK-laptop looks
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: linda has a bug that makes it break on the man pages, but apart from that, it should be fine.
<ScottK-laptop> OK
<ScottK-laptop> shawarma: Why is libnet-cups-perl-0.51.orig/const-c.inc in the debian diff?
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: Um..
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/libnet-cups-perl-0706131155/libnet-cups-perl-0.51/
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: I don't see it.
<ajmitch> git clone git://people.freedesktop.org/~jrmuizel/mmio-trace
<ScottK-laptop> shawarma: Look at http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/libnet-cups-perl-0706131155/libnet-cups-perl_0.51-0ubuntu1.diff
<ajmitch> hm
* bddebian gives ajmitch a big hug
<ajmitch> bad paste
<ajmitch> hello bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya
<ajmitch> long long time no see
<bddebian> Aye, sorry, work has been killing me :-(
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: Ah.. Good question. Probably some sort of autogenerated cruft that needs to cleaned.
<ScottK-laptop> shawarma: Also I would have expected you to be building an architecture independent package..
<crimsun> ScottK-laptop: ok
<ajmitch> bddebian: it's ok, I've not been active at all
<bddebian> Oh, so nothing has changed?
* bddebian ducks ;-P
<ajmitch> pretty much
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: Um. No. It build .so's and shit.
<ScottK-laptop> shawarma: OK.
<ajmitch> so there's no real reason for me to still hang around ubuntu channels
<shawarma> Hey, ajmitch!
<ajmitch> hi
<crimsun> ajmitch is trying to pretend he doesn't do stuff in main.  Pfft.
<ajmitch> I don't
<bddebian> ajmitch: pshaw
<ajmitch> oh, new alsa-utils
* ajmitch has been having *lots* of fun sound problems lately
<crimsun> yeah, I broke something again (surprise)
<ajmitch> but I point the finger solely at hardware
<ScottK-laptop> shawarma: Comments on all 3.
<xxxxx1> bye all!
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: Thanks!
<Schitso> Ugh, I suck at triaging... -_-
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: I thought about the "all rights reserved" thing, too. The upstream readme gives that and then also says that it's under the same license as perl itself..
<ScottK-laptop> Schitso: You'll learn.  It takes practice.
<ScottK-laptop> shawarma: I think you need to address it with the upstream.
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: /me lets out a deep sigh
<ScottK-laptop> shawarma: Also, don't forget that Perl is licensed under GPL version 1 too.
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: Yes?
<ScottK-laptop> shawarma: So "Same terms as Perl" includes GPL 1, GPL 2, and Artistic
<ScottK-laptop> IIRC
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: To be honest, the README says "This library is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
<shawarma> it under the same terms as Perl itself. 
<shawarma> "
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: What *I* did was to yank out the stuff from /usr/share/doc/perl/copyright
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: and put that in. That made sense to me.
<ScottK-laptop> Sounds reasonable.
<shawarma> But I totally agree there's an ambiguity in one sense.
<shawarma> In another sense, there's no doubt in my mind what the author meant.
<shawarma> He meant it to be released under the same terms as perl. He just made the mistake of putting "all rights reserved", too.
<ScottK-laptop> If the copyright holder asserts All Rights Reserved, I don't know that the archive admins are going to be OK with it.
<ScottK-laptop> Right, so ask him to fix it.
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: Yeah.
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: I fixed the autogenerated bits in libnet-cups-perl, by the way. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5536
* ScottK-laptop is already looking
<Schitso> Anyone know why I can't change the Importance of a bug report?
<Schitso> I just need to change it to wish list...
<ScottK-laptop> Schitso: You need to be in ubuntu-qa for that.
<Schitso> Should I join that, then?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-15
<shawarma> Schitso: You can apply, yes.
<shawarma> Schitso: For now, you can give me the bug number, then I can set it to wishlist.
<Schitso> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/120284
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120284 in rhythmbox "video podcasts show as failed downloads" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<shawarma> Schitso: Done.
<Schitso> Thanks
<shawarma> Schitso: Thank *you*.
<Schitso> Should I set it to "confirmed", then?
<shawarma> If you've verified that it's not bogus, I'd say yes.
<mok0> ls
<mok0> s/ls//
<Schitso> Alright.
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: Thanks for all your help. You made it to top three on my "People, I should buy beer" list.
* shawarma hugs ScottK-laptop 
<ScottK-laptop> Great.  You're welcome.  Thanks for contributing.
<ScottK-laptop> shawarma: Say thanks to the people that stuck me in an all day boring meeting and gave me internet access.
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: It really must have been *very* boring.
<ScottK-laptop> Yeah and my blood pressure does better when I don't pay attention to some of this stuff.
<shawarma> ScottK-laptop: Well, I'm glad I could be of service distracting you all day. :)
<mok0> I've made a premature upload to revu, can I zap it?
<ajmitch> just upload a new one once this one gets accepted
<mok0> Okay, I just want the reviewer to look at the latest upload
<ajmitch> right, they always should anyway
<mok0> great, thx
<bluefoxicy> quick question
<bluefoxicy> state "D" is in-kernel non-interruptable something right
* bluefoxicy can't kill -9 this process >:|  Is going to file a bug in something and is starting to think he may be filing it in apport
<bluefoxicy> which is not running
<ScottK-laptop> bluefoxicy: Dunno, but where in MD are you?  I live in MD too.
<bluefoxicy> FINALLY
<bluefoxicy> it just stopped being in D and died
<bluefoxicy> after like 5 minutes
<bluefoxicy> scottK:  White marsh area
<ScottK-laptop> bluefoxicy: I live in Ellicott CIty
<bluefoxicy> scottK:  Been there.
<bluefoxicy> I missed my turn for college and had to go down to the next exit
<ScottK-laptop> Heh.  Which college?
<Schitso> I need help making a patch for a bug.
<Schitso> It's just a small change in the debian/install file
<ScottK-laptop> OK
<Schitso> So, how exactly would I go about it?
<ScottK-laptop> Schitso: What bug?
<Schitso> Should I change the diff.gz file that comes with the package?
<Schitso> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/timemachine/+bug/120475
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120475 in timemachine ".desktop file wrong srouce" [Undecided,In progress]  
* ScottK-laptop looks
<ScottK-laptop> Schitso: apt-get source the package and work from that.
<Schitso> I did already, and I made the change, but how should I post it?
<ScottK-laptop> Schitso: Make your change, document it in debian/changelog (dch -i is your friend).
<ScottK-laptop> Then make a new source package (debuild -S -uc)
<ScottK-laptop> Then debdiff the old and new packages, attach the debdiff to the bug and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsrs to the bug.
<Schitso>  Bug#120475: timemachine: .desktop wrong file srouce
<Schitso> * timemachine.desktop installed into /usr/share/app-installer/desktop
<Schitso>     instead of /usr/share/gnome/apps/Multimedia/ 
<ScottK-laptop> Good bye all.  Boring meeting is ending.
<Schitso> Is that the correct way to document the change?
<Schitso> Ah, ok.
<pochu> Night ScottK-laptop 
<Schitso> Bye.
<ScottK-laptop> No.  Sorry I've got to run.  Someone else can tell you...
<Schitso> Blast....
<Schitso> Someone?
<Schitso> Anyone?
<pochu> Good night MOTUland!
<Schitso> Not knowing what to do sucks.
<porthose> yea I have the same problem lololo it really does suck
<luisbg> how should I do it if I want that when the package I'm building makes a backup of a file before installing itself?
<owh> I'm trying to fix a bug in gphpedit. I think that the problem is that a parameter being passed is defined as a gint, but expected to be a glong. There are over 300 parameters to check. I'm using dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -b to build the package. How do I get the compiler to tell me of these mismatches?
<Amaranth> 2> error.log
<owh> Amaranth: That gave me a little output, but nothing at all to do with type errors at all.
<owh> Any flags I need to set somewhere?
<owh> I've just tried with the -W flag, but that didn't produce any more output.
<jussi01> can someone remind me of how to find out the package you need if your missing a certain file? (SDL.h)
<StevenK> jussi01: apt-file search ?
<jussi01> StevenK: thanks :D
<mthaddon> have a question about patching a package (noob here in terms of packaging) - I've done...
<mthaddon> apt-get source rhythmbox
<mthaddon> cd rhythmbox-0.10.0
<mthaddon> # patched my installation and ran dch -i
<mthaddon> debuild -S
<mthaddon> cd ..
<mthaddon> I know have the files in the directory, but am not sure how to repackage them so I can install and then test that my patch worked?
<owh> mthaddon: The way I just did that was: "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -b"
<jussi01> you can also use pbuilder for a clean room environment
<AndyP> mthaddon: you might want to look into using pbuilder
<mthaddon> owh: do I need to specify the dsc file, as there are two there (the original one)
<owh> mthaddon: Dunno, I'm just playing locally.
<mthaddon> AndyP: I have a pbuilder set up for dapper and would like to build this for feisty - I guess I could reconfigure that...
* owh resolves to look at pbuilder in a spare moment.
<jussi01> mthaddon: yeah you need to specify the dsc...
<AndyP> mthaddon: it's possible to set up more than one pbuilder for different releases etc, but you can also just tweak your /etc/pbuilderrc to look at a different release if you only want to build for one
<mthaddon> AndyP: might have to look into that...
<mthaddon> jussi01: thx
<AndyP> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<jussi01> could someone tell me what im missing? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25636/
<AndyP> jussi01: looks like you need to build depend on libsdl1.2-dev
<jussi01> AndyP: thanks
<AndyP> if you need to find out those kinds of things, "apt-file search" or packages.ubuntu.com are good places to search
<hollero> is there any particular reason why there's a package for Eclipse but none for NetBeans?
<jussi01> AndyP: apt-file serch didnt reveal anything.. wht did you search on?
<AndyP> hollero: netbeans is in multiverse, i believe
<AndyP> jussi01: i searched for SDL.h
<AndyP> jussi01: if you've only just installed apt-file you'll need to run sudo apt-file update to build the db
<jussi01> AndyP: hehe, thats the problem then :D
<jussi01> wondered why it didnt work
<AndyP> :)
<jussi01> AndyP: can you do a quick search on SDL_image.h for me? my internet is really sslow, and its taking ages...
<hollero> now i got it... is there any reason why it is multiverse and not universe (i thought it was completely opensource)... and why is it only in synaptic and not in add/remove?
<AndyP> jussi01: libsdl-image1.2-dev
<AndyP> hollero: no idea, sorry
<jussi01> AndyP: thanks very much
<hollero> maybe it's just a matter of creating a metafile for add/remove (i'm not an expert on this, no idea really) with a description and so on that it can be used in the easy add/remove
<hollero> ?
<leonel> question :  when I get the sources from a debian unstable  deb   and  I want to patch it to work with ubuntu  dpatch-edit-patch works the same  or there's something that has to be done ?
<leonel> no I haven't done any  merge
<leonel> just testing if that  deb works in ubuntu
<AndyP> leonel: i'm not sure i understand your question
<superm1> leonel, does a test build work in a gutsy pbuilder/sbuild?
<superm1> (or have you tried)?
<leonel> superm1:  no I haven't  I just  downloaded   dpkg-source  and dpkg-buildpackage 
<superm1> leonel, the first thing i would do is try it in a pbuilder/sbuild env.  if things work, you're done and just need to request a sync
<leonel> AndyP: Ubuntu works with  debian/patches    and I didn't see any  in debian's   psycopg2
<superm1> if not, then you can create patches using dpatch-edit-patch
<leonel> superm1: ok thanks  
<leonel> I'll try
<leonel> The more I learn from  this  things  the more I want to keep working on this things .. I mean  motu things 
<leonel> :)
<leonel> superm1: Builded  fine  with pbuilder 
<StevenK> shawarma: Linda 0.3.25 has been uploaded to Debian. The Debian import freeze hasn't hit yet, so hopefully she'll get pulled across automagically.
<nixternal> crimsun: when you get the chance, I have upgraded to Gutsy and my sound is severly broken...go through some steps so I can create a bug report accordingly for you
<ajmitch> nixternal: how broken?
<nixternal> well, broken tot he point where my speakers are blaring, unless I turn PCM all the way down
<nixternal> volume control doesn't work at all, only pcm
<ajmitch> fun
<ajmitch> there was a new alsa-utils that I saw, at least
<nixternal> I usually sit in the back of class and listen to LUGRadio, so after I upgraded here in class I decided to listen to the latest, and boom, Jono loud as hell laughing filled the class
<jussio1> lol
<nixternal> at least he wasn't cussing yet
<jussio1> hehe
<ajmitch> haha!
<nixternal> now the teacher definitely knows I am not paying attention during class
* jussio1 smacks alsa ... where is crimsun!
<nixternal> jussio1: he is hiding, he knows it is broken ;p
<jussio1> hehe
<nixternal> glad I didn't click on some pr0n or something, now that would have been really embarassing
<jussio1> im trying to figure out this, its probably not alsa's fault htough...
<jsgotangco> huh? you upgraded your system while in class?
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> dude, this is ASP.NET class, I could care less about it
<nixternal> easy A
<jsgotangco> you must be really bored
<jsgotangco> even if its an MS thing class I wouldn't miss the chance to learn something
<nixternal> ASP.NET == drag and dropping, not much to learn really, everything tells you what to do
<jussi01> hehe
<jsgotangco> its still learning for me
<nixternal> every now and then we get into some c#
<nixternal> so if you know java and c++, then c# makes sense, or is supposed to make sense
<jsgotangco> wow powerset released a screenshot and it has a porn category
<nixternal> heh
<jsgotangco> go spurs
<leonel> is it  right to  have  a  pbuilder-gutsy inside a  gutsy debootstrap running in feisty ?
<jussi01> can someone point me to a good tutorial to get vnc working?
<TheMuso> lionel: I'd say so. I used to use dchroot with chroots, which had pbuilder set up in them.
<leonel> TheMuso:  ok 
<superm1> leonel, yes that should be fine
<superm1> you just need to file a sync request bug now
<superm1> indicate that it built fine in your pbuilder
<superm1> and then subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<leonel> superm1: if the package is in MoM or DaD  ??
<superm1> regardless
<superm1> leonel, the entire sync process is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<leonel> so there's no need to merge ?
<leonel> http://merges.ubuntu.com/p/psycopg2/REPORT
<superm1> oh I thought you had mentioned this was was a new package
<superm1> coming from debian
<superm1> as in not in ubuntu.
<superm1> what is the content of our changes?
<superm1> from debian
<leonel> superm1: I don't  know  but let me read  that link you send  or is there for  merge request ?
<superm1> leonel, well you can generate a debdiff between our package and debian's 
<superm1> and see if the changes we do are necessary
<superm1> if it looks like they are, then you need to go through a merge
<superm1> if they can be dropped, you can file the sync request
<leonel> superm1: great    let me do that tomorrow  since I got to go now    and  read that link you send  (  I'm learnng  here ) ...
<leonel> superm1: thank you 
<superm1> np leonel :)
<superm1> leonel, there is lots of very valuable information on all the procedures at those wiki pages
<leonel> superm1:  I'll take a look thanks
* AndyP finally makes friends with quilt
<leonel> superm1: found this :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging
<leonel> superm1: I'll read  and read  and read then  do a merge or sync 
<superm1> sounds good leonel 
<leonel> now got to go !
<leonel> thank you 
<zakame> good day MOTUs
* zakame takes a look at wulfare
<zakame> make that wulfware
<zakame> xmms2 FTBFS on amd64 known upstream: http://bugs.xmms2.xmms.se/view.php?id=1607
<zakame> perhaps disabling build of xmms2-plugin-sid would work atm?
<sevda> sevda1990_2007@yahoo.com
<ed1t> anybody know on status of new scala's .deb?
<Burgundavia> ed1t: scalas dev?
<Burgundavia> deb?
<ed1t> yes scala2.5.1 released....ubuntu's repository has the old version 2.3
<ajmitch> 2.5.0 sources are in universe, but failed to build
<ed1t> is it easy to like create your own .deb ?
<ajmitch> "GC Warning: Out of Memory!  Returning NIL!
<ajmitch> java.lang.OutOfMemoryError
<ajmitch>    <<No stacktrace available>>"
<ajmitch> comforting
<ed1t> hmmm
<StevenK> Oh, *twitch*
<ajmitch> StevenK awakens
<StevenK> I've been awake for hours, so shush
<ajmitch> but you leapt for joy at the mention of java
<ajmitch> it shouldn't be too hard to update scala to 2.5.1, but it entirely depends on the package
<StevenK> And if it requires more than 1Gb of RAM to build.
<ed1t> which one?
<StevenK> A co-worker mentions that ant has it's own limits, much like PHP.
<ajmitch> but php should be used for everything!
<StevenK> Oh geez.
<StevenK> ANT_OPTS=-Xmx512M ant -f debian/simpbuild.xml dist
<ajmitch> why don't we use php-gtk more?
<StevenK> Evidently, 512M isn't enough anymore.
<StevenK> But according to the co-worker, ant tries to do everything directly in memory.
* zakame looks at iolanguage
<Hobbsee> hi all
<lifeless> harro
<Hobbsee> :)
<zakame> heya Hobbsee and lifeless!
<cbx33> hey there everybody
<zakame> yo cbx33
<cbx33> howz it all going
<Hobbsee> hey
<Hobbsee> a
* zakame takes a look at spring
<cbx33> heya Hobbsee 
<cbx33> guys got a bit of a MOTU question
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> so...I have a piece of software, which has several "plugins"
<cbx33> which pull in/require many python modules
<cbx33> so I don't want to package it all up together
<cbx33> as it'll then require lots of deps
<cbx33> that the person will probably never ever use.  Is it acceptable to split it into seperate binary packages for the plugins?
<lifeless> sure
<lifeless> see opensync for instance :)
<cbx33> if so, I currently use a makefile to do the python stuff
<cbx33> how best I do this
<cbx33> maybe a link to the package would help?
<cbx33> if someone has a few minutes to look at if with me
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> your software build, and your packaging should be separate
<cbx33> yes
<lifeless> because people may want to package it for RH etc.
<cbx33> sure
<lifeless> so just have your package rules create the separate binary packages.
<cbx33> that's the plan
<cbx33> www.progbox.co.uk/vcsfrenzy
<cbx33> https://code.launchpad.net/~petesavage/vcs-frenzy/trunk
<cbx33> the browse code here should have it too
<cbx33> at the moment
<cbx33> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~petesavage/vcs-frenzy/trunk/annotate/petesavage%40ubuntu.com-20070601205206-xckyam97r3q4wedk?file_id=makefile-20070510150748-m3hnibdgz7gz3czl-1
<cbx33> my makefile installs all plugins together
<cbx33> how best to go about splitting this?
<crimsun> nixternal: what does "severely broken" mean?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: means he's describing his experience of vista.
<DarkMageZ> ... vista isn't that bad. mine only went nuclear due to my attempting to get mdns on it.
<zakame> lol
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> so any ideas on my packging problem?
<\sh> crimsun, do you have any clue about asoundconf-gtk, especially where the orig source code can be found?
<cbx33> hey jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hi cbx33
<jsgotangco> hi \sh welcome back :)
<crimsun> \sh: I thought it was in Ubuntu Studio's bzr repo
<crimsun> \sh: don't have the url handy, but apt-get source has it
<crimsun> \sh: it's deprecated anyhow; see LP/asoundconf-ui
<\sh> crimsun, yeah found your project...but no bzr uploads ,-)
<\sh> crimsun, oh ... sorry...wrong there is something ,-)
<crimsun> hmm? there are two commits to trunk.  Granted it's very, very prelim, but if you pyuic -o displayqt.py displayqt.ui, you'll see the mockup
<\sh> crimsun, let me give it a shot and provide some code to it ,-)
<nixternal> crimsun: only PCM controls the volume for me
<\sh> crimsun, do you want to reuse the code from pitti (asoundconf) ?
<crimsun> \sh: yes, it will Depends: alsa-utils
<nixternal> my volume up/down keys works great by turning master volume up and down, however it really doesn't turn the volume up or down
<nixternal> and I will say, the Gutsy kernel has made my audio even louder now
<\sh> crimsun, anything against pushing this as well to opensuse or any other distro not having this fine util?
<nixternal> having Jono laughing in the middle of class isn't all that great :)
<crimsun> \sh: none at all, though they probably don't have asoundconf.  Be aware that the version of asoundconf is very tightly dependent on the alsa-lib version due to the parameters culled from $prefix/share/alsa/alsa.conf
<\sh> crimsun, yepp....I wanted to port asoundconf to opensuse...(just testing this bitch of distro)
<crimsun> it would be useful for me to draw up that spec RSN
<crimsun> nixternal: ok, so what's severely broken about it?
<nixternal> well, not being able to control my volume automatically makes it severly broken in my eyes..where volume doesn't do anything...having to manually control pcm
<crimsun> nixternal: keep in mind that we're not tracking alsa-kernel hg tip, since 2.6.22 has yet to release so that I can begin the pull.
<crimsun> err, we apparently have very different versions of "extremely broken"
<nixternal> roger that...just wanted to talk it over with you and see how to proceed..I can live with the manual tweaking
<crimsun> extremely broken for me is "inaudible regardless of quirk" or "locks up machine"
<nixternal> well when jono is laughing at 100db in the middle of class, that is severly broken ;p
<crimsun> ok, then please provide me with some useful debugging info.
<nixternal> that is what I wanted to talk about...you know all of the funky commands to debug audio
<crimsun> http://trilug.org/~crimsun/alsa-info.sh
<crimsun> download it, execute it, tell me the url.
<nixternal> http://pastebin.ca/567967
<nixternal> brb
<crimsun> it's not clear whether you're saying that 'Master' does nothing at all or that 'PCM' overrides 'Master'
<nixternal> Master does nothing at all
<nixternal> the volume slider goes up and down, but the volume doesn't change
<crimsun> and this is a dist-upgrade?
<nixternal> yes
<crimsun> the state names changed
<crimsun> nuke your /var/lib/alsa/asound.state, unload ^snd, reload snd-hda-intel
<crimsun> oh, and if you were using any options snd-hda-intel line in /etc/modprobe.d/*, get rid of it
<nixternal> mute doesn't work either
<crimsun> one step at a time
<nixternal> how do I unload & reload?
<nixternal> modprobe?
<StevenK> modprobe -r .... ; modprobe ...
<nixternal> thought so
<nixternal> there is a ton of snd, just the intel for the unload I take it?
<crimsun> modprobe -r $(lsmod|awk '/^snd/ {print $1}')
<StevenK> Might need to pipe the awk into tac
<\sh> crimsun, you should use kdes i18n method and then gettext 
<nixternal> FATAL: Module snd_hda_intel is in use.
<crimsun> \sh: sure, go ahead, although I'd rather keep it Qt
<shawarma> StevenK: And you've included the patch in 0.3.25? (
<shawarma> s/(//
<StevenK> shawarma: No, because I'd already fixed it.
<shawarma> StevenK: Ah, ok. Great.
<crimsun> nixternal: close any program accessing it.
<crimsun> fuser, lsof, whatever.
<crimsun> (and if you're using pulseaudio, you'll need to prepend sudo due to the recent sysctl.conf change)
<crimsun> /dev/dsp* /dev/mixer* /dev/audio* /dev/snd/*
<crimsun> being the files you want to check
<nixternal> OK, done
<nixternal> amarok was the bugger
<crimsun> now, presuming the symptom is reproducible with amixer directly, I'll need your codec dumps
<crimsun> i.e., don't use your mmkeys; use `alsamixer -c0` directly
<nixternal> alsamixer isn't working it either
<crimsun> meaning Master does nothing?
<nixternal> nope
<crimsun> ok, then you need 4 sets of pastebins.
<crimsun> set 1 is the initial state
<crimsun> set 2 is the state after you've increased PCM but left Master alone
<crimsun> set 3 is the state after you've done set 2 and increased Master
<crimsun> set 4 is the state after you've done sets 2 and 3 and decreased Master
<crimsun> I only need /proc/asound/card0/codec* contents
<crimsun> please file a bug against linux-source-2.6.22, assign it to the ubuntu-audio LP team, include you first pastebin URL, then attach separately each of the four codec dumps
<nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25659/
<nixternal> ahh, roger
<nixternal> there is only 1 codec dump
<nixternal> codec#0
<crimsun> each mixer element change corresponds to a nid change reflected in the codec
<crimsun> that's why you will have 4 codec dumps
<nixternal> gotcha
<nixternal> crimsun: bug 119266 - does this have anything to do with me?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119266 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Intel HDA Sound device doesn't work in gutsy" [Low,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119266
<crimsun> no, you two have utterly different codecs.
<crimsun> he has a sigmatel, you have a conexant.
<nixternal> alrighty, bug filed with all 4 dumps
<nixternal> thank you sir
<crimsun> thank -you-
<nixternal> no, thank you!
<dholbach> good morning
<AndyP> good morning all
<pochu> Morning :)
<geser> Hi AndyP
<lionel> hi AndyP
<AndyP> hi lionel, thanks for the paintlib sync ack
<lionel> no pb :)
<infinito> any motu with a little time for this? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5532
<pochu> infinito: a small one: In debian/control, change 'More information' with 'Homepage', indented by 2 spaces, instead of one.
<infinito> pochu: ok
* AndyP finishes cleaning up the MOTU/FAQ wiki page a bit
<Zic> hmm, question about existence : how it's choose to put stuff in depends *or* in recommends in ubuntu-desktop ?
<Zic> because I can see that their is not logical answer :o
<Zic> s/not/no/
<xxxxx1> morrrning people
<xxxxx1> :)
<infinito> anyone is bored? come on! give this a little review!! http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5542
<infinito> :)
<xxxxx1> hello Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee waves
<Hobbsee> anyone awake?
<StevenK> Nope.
<Hobbsee> awww
<Hobbsee> there's supposed to be a meeting in 15, iirc.
<StevenK> You're right. Now I remember.
<lucas> a MOTU meeting ?
<Hobbsee> yes
* TheMuso checks agenda.
* lucas can fake being awake. but hasn't really follow MOTU stuff recently
<TheMuso> Well clamav is not exactly something I'm interested in, so planning to sleep still goes ahead.
<StevenK> persia: I've *gasp* set up sbuild + LVM snapshots.
<TheMuso> Ok... What does one do with a merge, if Debian has modified the orig tarball, causing its MD5 to be different, even though the orig tarball version is still the same?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: fakesync, or put the debian changes into the ubuntu version
<Hobbsee> depends if it's a merge or sync
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Merge.
<TheMuso> ...and how does one fakesync?
<Hobbsee> right.  take ubuntu's, add debian's changes as applicable
<TheMuso> I haven't had to do that as yet...
<Hobbsee> that's effectively a fakesync
<TheMuso> I was hoping it wouldn't come to that.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Right.
<persia> StevenK: Great news!  How does your experience compare with pbuilder?
<Hobbsee> ie, take out any changes that ubuntu doesnt need, add debian's, add the final changelog entry, upload
<StevenK> persia: It's ... different. And harder to debug.
<TheMuso> Well, this will be fun. Its one of those insane source packages, that puts a tarball inside the source package dir.
<StevenK> Yummy!
<Hobbsee> ooh, yummy!
* persia likes DBS :)
<StevenK> persia: Crazy person.
<bluekuja> persia, heya
<bluekuja> persia, I've just made a debdiff for gpixpod issue
<persia> bluekuja: Great!
<bluekuja> persia, ;)
<StevenK> TheMuso: I do a fakesync by checking that the orig's contain the same files and that the package will build with the Ubuntu orig. Make sure the .dsc references the Ubuntu orig, generate a changes file and upload it.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Right.
* persia often does debdiff for the debian changes, and tries to apply that patch to Ubuntu
* TheMuso could shoot those who decide to do tarballs within a source package.
<TheMuso> persia: Good idea.
<persia> TheMuso: Why?
<persia> (about embedded tarballs)
<TheMuso> persia: Because they make things like this just that bit more difficult to work around.
<TheMuso> And its just weird.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: just make sure you dont miss.
<TheMuso> Yeah I know.
<persia> TheMuso: Ah.  When torcs used to do that, I liked it because the patches were very easy to manage, but I can see the counter-argument as well.
<bmm> zakame: you online? Could you elaborate on your comment on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5511 and would you advocate if I change the changelog entry?
* persia prepares to ACK a new upload, if required
<StevenK> Hrm. When does the meeting start?
<geser> StevenK: 15 min ago officially
<persia> StevenK: It started 15 minutes ago, but it's not moving every quickly :)
<StevenK> Heh
* soc looks around excited ... (what meeting?)
<Hobbsee> motu meeting
<zakame> heya
<Hobbsee> hiya zakame!
<zakame> meeting?
<TheMuso> Ok. The orig tarball does have another tarball inside, but when I unpack both the sid and gutsy versions, even though both orig tarballs have a different MD5, there is no difference in their contents. Turns out the last change was added as a patch...
<TheMuso> Just bloody great.
<zakame> bmm: "initial release" tends to get buried below more recent changelog entries (and hence, future (and eventual) package updates.)  Documenting every sensible change that you made against the original sources from the start is good practice, because you never know who will be looking at your package, 2 days or 2 months from now.
<bmm> zakame: so you would be willing to advocate the package if I change the changelog? Do you have any other comments?
<zakame> bmm: and if it builds cleanly, yes :)
<bmm> zakame: doesn't it??
<bmm> zakame: if you have/find problems with building, please post a comment. I'll do an upload with the new changelog somewhere this weekend (can'
<bmm> (can't do it right now)
<zakame> bmm: it's ok now, but that doesn't mean the next upload will be; verification (hopefully) is made at every iteration :)
<TheMuso> Night folks.
* TheMuso will look at this again tomorrow.
<bmm> zakame: sure, well, I'll ping everybody when I've got the new changelog entry in.
<zakame> bmm: cool :D
<zakame> gn8 TheMuso
<soc> i have a question about packaging gimp ... should i wait until the meeting is over?
<Hobbsee> shoot
<soc> ok
<soc> sudo debuild:
<soc> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Build conflicts: libgimp2.0
<StevenK> You shouldn't need to run debuild as root.
<soc> i don't really understand the error message ...
<soc> without sudo i get:
<StevenK> A Build-Conflict is something that must not be installed for the package to build.
<soc> problem running fakeroot
<StevenK> Is fakeroot installed?
<soc> stevenk: so i can't have gimp installed if i want to build a newer version?
<StevenK> It seems you can't have libgimp2.0 installed.
<soc> i thought i wouldn't need fakeroot ...
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<StevenK> You need fakeroot. You like fakeroot. You must have fakeroot.
<StevenK> Or something.
<soc> ok :-)
<zakame> lolfakeroot
<BlueDevil> is gaim compiled without sasl support intentionally?
<soc> so do i need to set something up with pbuilder or will fakeroot be enough?
<man-di> soc: if you dont wanna deinstall libgimp2.0 go with pbuilder
<man-di> soc: fakeroot is just a way to fake root,
<soc> omg ... pbuilder is such a mess ...
<geser> soc: fakeroot will be enough but pbuilder has the advantage that you don't have to install the build-depends
<man-di> soc: pbuilder is soooo easy
<soc> it wants do download packages i already have on the system and it takes ages to run the first time+
<man-di> geser: fakeroot is only enough when he deinstalls libgimp2.0
<soc> i already gave up 4 times because i wanted to go to bed an pbuilder ran the whole day ...
<geser> in this case you are right, I was more general
<soc> mh ok
<soc> i will try once again ...
<soc> why does pbuilder want to download things i have already installed?
<soc> it downloads things like adduser, alsa-base, alsa-utils, apt, etc ...
<soc> i already have that
<geser> it needs those packages to create a chroot
<man-di> soc: it more or less installs its own system
<man-di> soc: so you are completely independant from your work system
<man-di> soc: its a pretty minimal system
<soc> but why doesn't it use already available debs for that?
<man-di> soc: just for building packages
<soc> it wouldn't even need root to access them
<soc> yes i understand that
<soc> but why does it download things twice?
<soc> another question:
<soc> i have a amd64 and a i386 machine
<man-di> so because it needs a ubuntu mirror to get the debs and /var/cache/apt/archives is no mirror
<soc> should i setup both
<soc> or is there a possibilty to use the amd64 for both?
<man-di> soc: its possible to do both on amd64
<soc> mh ok
<soc> is there anything special about that?
<soc> or can i just say pbuilder create?
<man-di> soc: never did that with pbuilder, just with normal chroots
<soc> what about building packages with dh_make?
<soc> is this different?
<StevenK> dh_make doesn't build packages
<geser> soc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto has an item how to create a i386 pbuilder on amd64
<man-di> soc: dh_make creates only some template files
<soc> ok it converts source archives into debian package souces ...
<man-di> soc: if you do all right zou can build the debian package on both (and more) archs
<man-di> from the same debian package source
<soc> ok ...
<infinito> anyone to review this? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5532
<statik> anyone feel like re-reviewing python-coverage package? Just added debian/README.Debian-source this time http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5545
<zakame> statik: cool, lemme check
<zakame> statik: 'Fixes from REVU' in your debian/changelog may mean anything; document your initial changes as much as you can, so anyone else looking at your pkg (or you, 2 months from now, and updating this to a new version) will understand at a glance what changes happened
<statik> zakame: this is a new package I made
<statik> zakame: there is no previous version
<zakame> statik: nevertheless, there are initial changes, like the addition of setup.py
<statik> zakame: I see. so there should be one changelog entry for the initial release, but it should explain that I added setup.py.
<zakame> yes
<statik> zakame: thanks for your help. anything else it needs to say besides "added setup.py" ?
<soc> hi
<soc> one question:
<soc> how can i change the install directory with debuild
<soc> i want a package currently installing tu /usr/bin to install to /opt or something ..
<zakame> statik: mention the README.Debian-source note as well
<soc> problem is, debuild runs configure for me, i have no idea how to pass arguments ..
<statik> zakame: ok, done. uploading now
<zakame> soc: look into your debian/rules
<Hobbsee> soc: you want to pass the arguments inside the package - ie, in debian/rules.  not in debuild.
<soc> ok that seems to be quite complicated
<soc> what do i have to change?
<soc> www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/11772
<soc> this is the bim package
<soc> i updated it to 2.3.18 ...
<soc> now i want to:
<soc> - rename the hole packages to gimp-2.3
<man-di> soc: DEB_CONFIGURE_PREFIX := /opt
<man-di> vim debian/control
<soc> - install them to /osr/local or something ...
<soc> do i have to add or change that=
<soc> what about line 87
<soc> the path is hardcoded there ...
<Riddell> stgraber: ipng
<Riddell> ping
<Riddell> stgraber: for miniracer I see binary files (pak0.pak, maps/*bsp), what are those file types and are those the prefered modified form?
<infinito> is there any problem with a FreeBSD license?
<raphink> anyone knows what apt-mark is for?
<man-di> infinito: depends on what FreeBSD license, 3 or 4 clauses
<infinito> man-di: it's not exactly freebsd, but freebsd like... http://pastebin.ca/568395
<soc> man-di?
<soc> do i have to add that?
<soc> beginning, end?
<soc> and what about line 87
<man-di> soc: add it
<man-di> soc: you should really read the maintainer guide instead of asking so questions here
<geser> raphink: it's looks like to tool to mark packages as auto-installed or not
<raphink> ah
<raphink> thanks geser
<soc> is there a guideline how to rename libgimp2.0?
<soc> libgim2.0-2.3?
<soc> someting like that?
<soc> man-di: where is the maintainer guide?
<man-di> soc: http://www.debian.org/devel/ has many infos
<man-di> policy, maintainer-guide, etc.
<soc> ok thx
<soc> is there a way to rename a package with a script?
<man-di> soc: no
<man-di> soc: use your favorite text editor
<azeem> soc: for libraries, see http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<soc> hwatever i do, i get dpkg-source: cannot represent change to debian/foobar: binary file contents have changed
<soc> i have renamed everything in debian/control and the files in debian/
<soc> i just wonder ...
<soc> comparing it to the loved/hated checkinstall ... it's possible with checkinstall to change the package name through the ui without any problems, which program does it use for that?
<soc> there has somewhere to be some code for renaming packages ...
<Hobbsee> ew, ew, ew, wtf are you trying to do?
<soc> i just try to change the name of a package
<Hobbsee> in debian/control
<soc> yeah i already had that ...
<soc> nothing worked after that
<Hobbsee> because...?
<Hobbsee> !doesnt work
<ubotu> Doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Please be specific! Examples of what doesn't work tend to help too.
<man-di> soc: you need to delete debian/OLDPACKAGENAMES
<geser> Hobbsee: he tries to create a gimp-2.3 package which is coinstallable with gimp from the archive
<man-di> soc: or do the renaming from a clean package
<Hobbsee> ahhh....
<soc> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to debian/foobar: binary file contents have changed
<Hobbsee> have you chagned things outside the debian/ dir?
<man-di> soc: you need to delete debian/OLDPACKAGENAMES
<zakame> gn8 all :)
<soc> ok, i just killed the hole gimp-2.3.18 dir
<soc> i have the gimp.2.3.16 dir, should i run uupdate again to create a new 2.3.18 directory?
<AndyP> i'm just looking at the music-applet merge on MoM - there was a 2.1.0-0ubuntu1 package made for ubuntu which hasn't been updated since it was created and now 2.2.0-1 is in debian, i'm tempted to just request a sync because according to the changelog there aren't any changes in ubuntu that aren't in debian, does a sync request sound appropriate?
<man-di> soc: why did you delete everything?
<man-di> soc: I told you what to do
<soc> because i'm frustrated ...
<soc> sorry
<soc>  i thought it would be cleaner to start over
<soc> i messed too much withit
<soc> sudo debuild
<soc> debuild with fakeroot
<soc> pbuilder
<soc> checkinstall ...
<Hobbsee> well, if you used checkinstall, no wonder it died....
<Hobbsee> debuild is just a wrapper aroudn pbuilder nad such.
<Hobbsee> er, no it's not
<soc> no this was after everything went wrong
<Hobbsee> around dpkg-buildpackage, i meant
<Hobbsee> did you modify outside debian/ ?
<soc> ok i have a fresh gimp-2.3.18
<soc> no
<soc> www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/11773
<soc> that's the original file
<soc> should line 1 stay as it is?
<Hobbsee> soc: are you trying to get it into the ubuntu repository?
<soc> no
<Hobbsee> right
<Hobbsee> is this a private package, or what?
<soc> just want to package it for myself and some frinds
<Hobbsee> right
<Hobbsee> soc: does it need to be coinstallable?
<soc> yes, because i don't want to cause breakage if something gets updated
<soc> for instance hole xsane seems to depend on the right version
<Hobbsee> "right version"?
<soc> don't no ...
<soc> i got it to build without the name change but that broke xsane
<soc> xsane wants gimp <= 2.3.17 or something like that
<soc> some people just want to try out gimp 2.3, they don't want to have gimp 2.2 replaced by it
<Hobbsee> libgimp2.0 (>= 2.3.16)
<azeem> libgimp2.0 (<< 2.3.17)
<Hobbsee> oh i see
<azeem> you'd need to recompile the reverse-deps, I guess
<soc> so it exactly wants 2.3.17
<azeem> .16
<Hobbsee> it wants exactly 2.3.16
<soc> sorry, xyes
<soc> i meant that :-)
<soc> i just want to name it different so that dpkg doesn't want to upgrade the old package to it
<soc> and put it in another directory
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> azeem: i doubt the current version fo xsane will cope with the older version of gimp anyway?
<Hobbsee> soc: basically, you need to rename the source and binary packages in debian/rules to $oldname-2.2 or soemthing, update all the references inside debian/ to be version 2.2, where they say 2.3, and try it.  and add conflicts/replaces to the standard gimp packages
* persia notes that conflicts/replaces would defeat the goal of parallel installation.
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, point. 
<Hobbsee> okay, ditch the conflicts/replaces
* Hobbsee notes it may cause upgrade fun, too.
<Hobbsee> i guess if it's a different source package, it would stay indefinetly
<persia> soc: You might want to add something extra to the soname as well, just to make sure regular GIMP works properly at the same time.
<soc> why 2.2?
<soc> i want to build packages of gimp 2.3 for feisty, feisty has gimp 2.2, so i don't want to overwrite that -> i thought i rename the gimp 2.3.18 package to gimp-2.3 so it can coexist
<Hobbsee> oh right...
<Hobbsee> s/2.3/2.2/ and s/2.2/2.3/ for what i said
<soc> :-)
<Hobbsee> seeing as i thought you were going the other way
<Hobbsee> woudl have thought there would have been a backport for the later gimp
<Hobbsee> which you could then just remove, and force install the older one.
<soc> no, i just want to have an easy to install/update package of gimp-2.3 for feisty
<soc> so i thought using the package manager is the right way instead of distributing compiled archives
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, I used to add a dpatch system to add patches to fix some bugs. If the package doesnt have a patch system already, is bad to *add* it?
<AndyP> seems that debian is waiting for 2.4 to be released before they package a newer gimp http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=322568
<ubotu> Debian bug 322568 in gimp "Please package gimp 2.3/2.4" [Wishlist,Open]  
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: no, it's good - often the package will need more bugs fixed via patches, etc.
<Hobbsee> AndyP: that doesnt help feisty and coinstallable packages, though
<AndyP> Hobbsee: i know, just a point of interest
<azeem> 2.3 packages are in experimental I think
<Hobbsee> :)
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, so it's ok to add dpatch system (also if package did not have it already)
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: yep
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, thanks ;)
<AndyP> i was told not to add a patch system if there wasn't already one, to reduce the debian delta (yet another point of information :) )
<AndyP> s/reduce/minimise/
<azeem> bluekuja: are there patches already in the .diff.gz directly?
<bluekuja> azeem, if I add them, of course they will appear in the diff
<azeem> bluekuja: "already"
<bluekuja> azeem, nope
<azeem> ok
<bluekuja> azeem, ;)
* AndyP goes to drink beer with other computer geeks (it's a hard life...)
<statik> dholbach: could I convince you to take another quick glance at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5545? your initial review was quite helpful, I've also addressed comments from a couple of other people
<soc> i'm trying dh_make at the moment ...
<Hobbsee> soc: with [01:31]  <soc> so i thought using the package manager is the right way instead of distributing compiled archives <-- do i want to know how you were goign to create those compiled archives?
<pochu> statik: you might want to add '  Homepage:' to the description in debian/control...
<soc> hobbsee: compile them, and put them in a tar.bz
<soc> but dh_make at least creates a working control file for me ...
<Hobbsee> so apt would have complained, and tried to update them
<statik> pochu: ok, I will do that
* statik is confused about what to put in control, and what to put in README.Debian-source
<pochu> statik: if you add it, note that it's indented with 2 spaces, rather than one.
<statik> pochu: ah, thank you. yes, I agree this should be added, then it will show up in the package description, right?
<pochu> right.
<statik> pochu: done, built a new source package, and uploaded
<soc> how can i tell debuild to install the package to a different directory if DEB_CONFIGURE_PREFIX := /opt doesn't do anything?
<pochu> statik: you can put a blank line between the description and the homepage, ' .'
<pochu> So the Description is clearer :)
<pochu> (Sorry for not mentioning it before)
<azeem> soc: did you check that DEB_CONFIGURE_PREFIX is honored by the build system?
<soc> no, how do i do that=
<statik> pochu: I tried that at first, agree it looks nicer. If I have a blank line, then dpkg-source complains about a syntax error in the control file: continued value line not in field
<pochu> Hmm
<pochu> statik: the blank line in the control file should be an space and a dot: ' .'
<statik> aha
<soc> is there maybe a chace to tell debuild NOT to run configure?
<pochu> It will become a blank line in apt, though :)
<azeem> soc: debuild doesn't run configure, the debian/rules rules do 
<infinito> hey MOTUs, easy to review here ;) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5532
<statik> pochu: perfect. that did the trick. built and uploaded
<soc> yes so how tell i debian/rules that it should install it to /usr/local or something?
<pochu> Cool :)
<statik> pochu: thanks for your help :)
<azeem> soc: you don't tell it, you modify it to your taste
<soc> in rules there is a line with ./configure
<pochu> statik: btw, I'm not a MOTU, so I can't advocate it, sorry :)
<soc> would it be enough to modify that?
<statik> pochu: it's ok, this is my first package so I'm just glad for everyone who is helping me get it right
<pochu> :)
<pochu> statik: Maybe remove 'The original version was written by Gareth
<pochu> + Rees. Ned Batchelder has updated it to determine executable statements
<pochu> + more accurately.
<pochu> From the description?
<pochu> I don't think that's useful at all to know what the module is for...
<statik> pochu: ok, removed those
<soc> ok, now it compiles ...
<soc> one big fat package named gimp-2.3 installing to /usr/local
<dholbach> statik: sure
<soc> i just wonder if there is maybe a plugin for netbeans or eclipse which would help with the configuration and packaging ...
<azeem> soc: doubt it
<statik> dholbach: awesome. I just did an upload about 2 minutes ago removing those lines that pochu suggested
<soc> hm
<dholbach> rock on
<soc> i think it's quite bad if there are so many different ways to create a package ...
<pochu> statik: I think you can move the python build-dependency to 'Build-Depends-Indep'
<soc> checkinstall, from scratch, dh_make, normal ./configure && make, pbuilder fakeroot, etc. ... many things with overlapping areas of responsibility
<azeem> soc: all that matters is policy
<soc> everything above in my opinion of course
<pochu> statik: lintian output: W: python-coverage: script-not-executable ./usr/share/python-support/python-coverage/coverage.py
<soc> so maybe we need a normative implematation ...
<azeem> soc: people have their personal preferences
<pochu> statik: so either chmod +x it, or remove the hashbang :)
<statik> pochu: hmm, I thought I had silenced that one
<soc> sometimes the documentation is not useful ...
<pochu> statik: you can chmod +x it in debian/rules, so don't miss that again in any future repackaging
<soc> there are nice explainations what individual tools do, but no chance to get an overview over your possibilities ...
<soc> and i was acustomed that one program does just ONE thing
<soc> i expected to do a ./configure && make and then soemthing to package it
<soc> but instead debuild does all 3 things
<statik> pochu: forgive my ignorance, but I am using a very simple debian/rules, just using cdbs. Do you know how I could hook in a chmod +x in debian/rules?
<soc> so i didn't really understand how things worked
<azeem> soc: debuild is a front-end
<azeem> pbuilder does even more than debuild
<dholbach> statik: I'm happy with it
<soc> azeem: yes, but how should i know it?
<soc> there is absolutely no documentation that says:
<azeem> soc: I don't know.
<soc> pbuilder doesn't adhere to UNIX' principle of one job, one program
<soc> that would have helped significantly
<statik> dholbach: thanks! what about moving python build-dependency to 'Build-Depends-Indep', and the script-not-executable warning, are those important?
<dholbach> you need it as a Build-Depend
<soc> you have to know all tools before you even learned them
<statik> ok
<pochu> statik: I know with debhelper, not with CDBS :)
<statik> soc: I found that there is a steep learning curve at first, but later on the tools are extremely efficient
<soc> yes, but imo it would be nice to write in the documentation right at the beginning:
<azeem> soc: send patches, I guess
<soc> debuild runs configure and make by itself, you don't need to run it manually
<soc> that would have saved me approx. 4 hours
<dholbach> statik: you could patch out the hashbang line
<dholbach> from what I saw it doesn't seem to be needed
<azeem> soc: as I said, debuild doesn't run configure
<dholbach> so you could ask upstream to remove it
<azeem> soc: it just happens that configure gets run by the gimp source package's debian/rules, this has nothing to do with debuild
<soc> azeem: ok, but practically you type in debuild and you see that configure runs in your terminal, then make
<azeem> soc: are you sure this is true for every package?
<azeem> because otherwise it would not make sense to write it into the documentation
<soc> i have yet to see a package whixh works different
<soc> but ok
<azeem> packages which don't include a configure might work different
<statik> dholbach: it seems like upstream has tried to make this work as both a module and a directly executable script, as they have option parsing, etc. in there
<soc> i don't no how those kde do that
<soc> cmake etc
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> statik: no problem to patch it out then
<statik> cool
<soc> maybe: debuild will run commands in debian/rules, often configure and make (YMMV), so usually you should not run them manually.
<soc> damn ... 
<soc> compilation fails ...
<soc> collect2: ld returned 1 exit staus
<soc> status
<statik> dholbach: ok, now patching out hashbang. uploaded the new one.
<dholbach> rock and roll
<statik> dholbach: oh, I accidentally typed 'dput blah.changes' instead of 'dput revu blah.changes', and it uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com. Will that cause a problem?
<dholbach> no it will be just rejected
<statik> yay for safety belts
<soc> www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/11775
<dholbach> :-)
<soc> someone has an idea why it fails?
<statik> I've never been so happy to be rejected
<dholbach> hehe :)
<dholbach> statik: did you re-upload to revu?
<statik> this whole motu channel rocks, it's great to get such good help from people
<statik> dholbach: yes
<dholbach> any second to approve http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5545 so we can get it uploaded?
<pochu> I would, but I can't ;)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: you've checked building, installability, licencing, python stuff on it?
<Hobbsee> codewise looks fine to me - but python is not my strong point
<dholbach> yes, but best if you look at it too :-)
* Hobbsee has looked.  somewhat.
* Hobbsee is slowly heading in teh direction fo bed though
<dholbach> *nod*
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i'm happy to ack if you've checked for all the other bits, as mentioned above
<dholbach> ok
<Hobbsee> it'll sit in NEW forever, though
<dholbach> let's see about that ;-)
<soc> azeem: do you have an idea why it fails?
<azeem> because there are unresolved symbols
<azeem> why that is, no idea
<Hobbsee> dholbach: ack'd.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: unless you sweet talk them.
<dholbach> sweet talk?
<Hobbsee> persuade them
<statik> Hobbsee, dholbach: thank you!
<Hobbsee> dholbach: please upload, send mail, etc
<dholbach> statik: congratulations to your first uploaded package to the archive!
<soc> azeem: maybe i'm missing a dependency?
<azeem> maybe
<soc> but that should told me configure before ...
<soc> wierd ...
<azeem> no, not if configure has a bug
<soc> is there a special way to handle python things?
<soc> azeem: it seems that creating the right configuration files in debian/ is hard, but updating with new sources is easy ...
<azeem> that's correct
<infinito> anybody wanna help me?? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5532
<ceros> is it ok to upload packages to REVU while you wait for them to get accepted in Debian?
<Hobbsee> ceros: yes, but it's easier just to request a sync for them, before the new package freeze
<ceros> ok
<Hobbsee> ceros: as it'll take ages thru our NEW queue too - but will take less time to go thru the NEW queue ifit's straight from debian
<ceros> ok
<soc> dh_make generates a debian/rules with deprecated things in it ... is that wanted?
<soc> dh_python
<soc> is dh_pysupport /usr/local/lib/gimp recursive?
<soc> or will it just lokk in gimp, but not in gimp/*?
<soc> someone=
<azeem> did you check the documentation or looked in the implementation?
<soc> yes
<soc> www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/11776
<soc> these are my rules (dh_make)
<soc> and this is the original:
<soc> www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/11777
<shawarma> soc: You should never install anything in /usr/local from a .deb.
<leonel> I have a  tar.gz   
<leonel> is there a  ubuntu  howto   to make  a  new deb  for that  tar.gz
<leonel> found it  
<xxxxx1> leonel: check packagingguide
<pochu> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<leonel> great !  
<man-di> lionel: ping
<lionel> pong man-di
<man-di> lionel: do you want to sync libapache-mod-jk from debian unstable now?
<man-di> lionel: I wanna do a new upload removing apache1 support for debian
<lionel> hum... I can't sync myself, but we should sync from Debian yes (I think we don't need anymore to switch from gcj to kaffe)
<lionel> concerning droping apache1 modules, I would like to discuss for a Ubuntu consensus
<lionel> I'll send a mail on -devel
<lionel> I should have take care of it this week. my bad
<man-di> lionel: my idea was that ubuntu syncs now, debian goes forward and then ubuntu can decide if it wants to follow or not
<lionel> man-di: ubuntu-archive won't sync before monday now...
<lionel> or I merge it with this change now (gcj -> kaffe) and we'll see next week what to do with apache1 package
<man-di> lionel: -2 in debian uses gcj
<man-di> lionel: the only difference should be the changelog to ubuntu
<lionel> man-di: in Ubuntu we use kaffe
<man-di> lionel: huh?
<man-di> debian used kaffe in the past
<lionel>   * Merge from Debian unstable. Remaining Ubuntu changes:
<lionel>     - Change workers.tomcat_home to tomcat5, and point java_home to kaffe in
<lionel>       debian/workers.properties. 
<lionel>     - debian/control: Change Maintainer/XSBC-Original-Maintainer field.
<lionel> the last changelog for gutsy
<man-di> oh
<man-di> lionel: Why?
<lionel> man-di: because it works  (tm) :)
<man-di> gcj doesnt?
<man-di> after all gcj is the standard jvm in ubuntu currently
<lionel> we had a problem in the past and kept this change
<man-di> what was the problem?
<lionel> I don't remember :(
<man-di> in debian it works with gcj just great
<lionel> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libapache-mod-jk/+bug/34863
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 34863 in libapache-mod-jk "Dapper: libapache2-mod-jk refers to tomcat4 and j2sdk1.4-sun" [Medium,Fix released]  
<lionel> that leads to this change
<lionel> yeah
<man-di> so there was never a reason not to use gcj
<lionel> man-di: upload you package, i'll fill a sync request once it's uploaded
<man-di> its in debian since some days
<lionel> yeah, I know, but the release withour apache1 modules
<man-di> so you dont care about syncing -2?
<lionel> no, we can jump this release
<man-di> okay
<man-di> I'm fine, I just wanted to make sure I dont uploaded new stuff before we spoke about the old stuff
<lionel> yes, again, sorry, I should have take care of this this week
<lionel> hi bashelier :)
<bashelier> hey lionel!
<bashelier> sup? :)
<lionel> sup?
<bashelier> lionel: what's up if you prefer ;)
<lionel> oh. Week-end is there, so, it's fine :)
<SlimG> Is it possible to make    dpkg-deb --build   automatically chown the files it archives to root ?
<man-di> SlimG: dpkg-buildpackage does that for you
<man-di> SlimG: when building debian packages from source, dont use dpkg-deb --build
<SlimG> man-di: I'm using dpkg-deb -b for closed source apps, thanks for your help!
<bashelier> hey man-di :)
<bashelier> thanks a lot for the upload ;)
<man-di> SlimG: then you are on your own, dpkg-deb --build just puts some existing files into a deb, nothing else
<man-di> SlimG: perhaps you can get this to work with using fakeroot
<dmb> can someone tell me why this is happening?
<dmb> in lintian, it is saying this:
<dmb> E: inspircd: file-in-etc-not-marked-as-conffile /etc/init.d/inspircd
<dmb> and in debian/conffiles
<dmb> etc/init.d/inspircd
<dmb> is in it
<SlimG> man-di: fakeroot chown root:root <package> -R didn't work
<man-di> SlimG: fakeroot bash
<man-di> SlimG: then chown root:root ... ; dpkg-deb -b .... inside 
<man-di> then exit
<man-di> and you should have got a deb with the right owners of the files inside
<man-di> SlimG: the issue is that you loose the infos about chowned files when exiting fakeroot
<dmb> its debian/conffiles that lists the configuration files right?
<SlimG> man-di: I'm writing this into a script, won't the "fakeroot bash" put the script off?
<Bassetts> if i can reproduce a bug should i mark it confirmed?
<SlimG> man-di: figured it out using bash -c "command" param, thanks for all your help
<DktrKranz> Bassetts, yes
<DktrKranz> if you can, add as much informations as you can
<Bassetts> ok
<DktrKranz> which bug are you after?
<Bassetts> 107370
<Bassetts> someone in ubuntu-bugs is helping me out =)
<DktrKranz> good :)
<tsmithe> any motus about?
<tsmithe> anyone wanna sponsor an update to a package of mine?
<tsmithe> the url on revu is http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5558
<tsmithe> i hope to include the functionality into asoundconf-ui <https://launchpad.net/asoundconf-ui/>
<tsmithe> but i want this update to test the current functionality (which, to be honest, is quite minimal)
<xxxxx1> bye all
<geser> tsmithe: looking now at the debdiff
<tsmithe> cool thanks
<geser> your changelog is missing the entry for asoundconf-gtk (1.5.1-0ubuntu2)
<tsmithe> it is?
<geser> I'm just curious: is there a reason why you removed the first blank line from each entry?
<geser> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/asoundconf-gtk-0706151545/asoundconf-gtk-1.6/debian/changelog has 1.5.1-0ubuntu1 an then directly 1.6-0ubuntu1
<geser> doesn't it need python-gtk2 anymore?
<tsmithe> i didn't realise i was removing lines :)
<tsmithe> (i'm not using dch)
<tsmithe> and did i remove python-gtk2?
<tsmithe> and, well, the first uploaded version was 1.5-1ubuntu5, i'm pretty sure, so i'm not sure the earlier ones are even necessary...
<geser> http://members.ping.de/~mb/debdiff is the debdiff between the version in the archive and the version from revu
<tsmithe> hmm that's really weird
<tsmithe> i guess i'll put that back...
<bmm> zakame: About the package that need another changelog line, would "Added a dpatch to make some tools/ shell scripts to use bash because of bashisms" be a good enough changelog line?
<bmm> zakame: Oh, package I mean ccbuild http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5511
<crimsun> bmm: "debian/patches/foo.dpatch: Use /bin/bash explicitly" would suffice
<bmm> crimsun: thanks!
<crimsun> (replacing "foo" as appropriate, of course ;)
<bmm> hehe, sure
<tsmithe> geser, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5559
<tsmithe> (thanks)
<bmm> crimsun: If you have time, I've made the change and it's uploaded as http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5560
<tsmithe> geser, scratch that :) got stuff to do yet ;)
<bmm> Any MOTU: ccbuild is looking for advocates again after adding extra information to the changelog, please see http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5560
<geser> tsmithe: so I shouldn't upload it?
<crimsun> (we're discussing UI issues in query)
<geser> ok
<tsmithe> what he said :)
<tobiasschulz> MOTUs: i'm lokking for advocated for my package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5552
<geser> tsmithe: you stopped me 1 minute before I'd upload it
<tsmithe> :)
<tsmithe> do i need to use Build-Depends-Indep?
<tsmithe> for my python applet which is arch-independent
<tsmithe> geser, ^ ?
<crimsun> yes
<tsmithe> crimsun, ?
<tsmithe> oops ok
<crimsun> Build-Depends-Indep: python-all-dev, python-central (>= 0.5)
<crimsun> e.g., ^
<tsmithe> yep yep
<geser> wouldn't python-all be enough if no python headers are needed?
<crimsun> oh, in that case he wouldn't need B-D-I
<tsmithe> hang on - do i need it then?
<tsmithe> if i don't, then someone can upload http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5561
<tsmithe> lintian seems to think i do...
<tsmithe> this is the B-D line, "Build-Depends: debhelper (>=5.0), cdbs, python (>= 2.4), python-support (>=0.3), intltool, gettext"
<crimsun> and you don't have b-a-i in debian/rules?
<geser> cdbs
<tsmithe> mm
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-16
<tsmithe> ok i've got to go to bed, exams and all
<tsmithe> if B-D is fine, then there's that upload 
<tsmithe> if not, then there's
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5562
<tsmithe> thanks :)
<geser> crimsun: should all build-deps after cdbs be moved to b-d-i?
<geser> does it really matter for an arch-all only package? as it got only build once
<crimsun> (looking)
<DarkSun88> G'night.
<crimsun> geser: python definitely needs to be moved.  It should be safe to move them all as you suggest.
<geser> ok will move them and upload
<ryanakca> would it be worth making a motu-mud team, since there's a pile of unpackaged MUD servers and clients out there? or would it all fall to another team?
<crimsun> ryanakca: a subteam of motugames, mayhap?
<crimsun> ryanakca: would probably make sense to see to it in Debian first
<ryanakca> crimsun: maybe. hmm... yeah
* persia notes that motugames has been subsumed by debian-games, and is no longer active.  ITP is the way to go.
<crimsun> what persia typed.
<ryanakca> persia: ok
* ryanakca wonders why some people only offer .src.rpm and .i386.rpm for their apps
* ryanakca ditches that client
<persia> ryanakca: http://wiki.debian.org/Games/Development may be of interest.
<persia> Those performing merges: please check the +bugs page for the package, and include a section detailing bugfixes from upstream or Debian in the changelog with (LP: #bugnumber) tags to close any bugs addressed by the new Debian revision.
* persia updates the wiki
<ryanakca> hmm... what do I do if there's already a package in the repos with the same name as the one I want to package? ex: mcl , http://micans.org/mcl/
<ryanakca> (in repo), and http://www.andreasen.org/mcl/ , that I want to package
<persia> ryanakca: Pick a new name (mcl-mud maybe?).
<ryanakca> persia: ok
<ryanakca> persia: hmmm... I don't know if it's worth packaging... abandoned, uses python 2.2... gcc-3.3, etc
* ryanakca scratches his head
<persia> ryanakca: Unless you use it, and especially like it, it's probably better to skip then: lots of work to keep it in the archives, and likely lots of bugs that must be fixed in packaging.
<ryanakca> persia: ok
<persia> More generally, it's not best practice to package everything out there: only the "best-of-class" apps for each category, or programs you find beneficial for your preferred activities.
<geser> we have currently over 600 packages that aren't in Debian
<geser> if no MOTU looks after them, they don't get updated
<persia> I wonder if we shouldn't add the filing of an RFP as a requirement for package inclusion, except where the package would only be interesting to Ubuntu.
<geser> does somebody know if http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/ tracks gutsy or still feisty?
<persia> geser: It looks like feisty to me - I don't see the merges being reported as having happened.
<bluekuja> persia, geser can you look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-mission-control/+bug/120633?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120633 in telepathy-mission-control "Sync telepathy-mission-control 4.24-1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<bluekuja> persia, geser seems that unstable guy made an error on the changelog
<bluekuja> written from daniel
<bluekuja> I've debdiffed it
<bluekuja> and there's no changes
<bluekuja> any idea on how can we process it?
<persia> bluekuja: 1) It's best to ask the channel generally, rather than specific individuals.  2) That's the result of a Debian sync from Ubuntu.  Nice when it happens.  It's probably safe to sync back, but you might want to check with Daniel.
<geser> if he took the ubuntu package and uploaded it to debian unstable, it's ok to credit dholback in the changelog
<bluekuja> persia, ok thanks
<bluekuja> persia, gonna ping daniel for it
<bluekuja> to be sure that we want a sync
<bluekuja> thanks guys, gonna sleep
<bluekuja> cu tomorrow
<geser> cu
<TheMuso> Heya folks.
<joejaxx> hello TheMuso :)
<TheMuso> Hey joejaxx.
<StevenK> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<StevenK> XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<StevenK> Original-Maintainer: Martin v. Lwis <martin@v.loewis.de>
* StevenK twitches.
<Fujitsu> Um... Which package?
<StevenK> python-xlib
<StevenK> I'm 80% certain it can get sync'd, so the point is moot.
<dmb> whats the best way to get a folder in /usr/lib to be in the library search path when creating a package?
<dmb> /usr/lib/yourprogramname
<zakame> good day MOTUs
<brylie> hello, can anybody point me to an article related to creating a metapackage for the apt repository so that the devs of a project can change the name of the .deb and allow anyone with the old version installed to migrate to the new naming standard?
<brylie> specifically, the current naming standard is 'python2.x-exe_x.xx.x.deb' and the new name would [hopefully]  be 'exe_x.xx.x.deb'
<crimsun> you don't need a metapackage to accomplish that
<crimsun> simply amend debian/control's current python2.x-exe entry to Depends: exe
<crimsun> it would also be a good idea to amend python2.x-exe's one-line [short]  Description to mention [transitional package] 
<brylie> ok cool
<brylie> I'll forward that info to the devs
<brylie> the package hasn't actually made it to the universe repository yet and I want to encourage them to rename the .deb 
<brylie> so when/if a MOTU submits it it will be more relevant
<crimsun> interesting transition.  Why exe and not python-exe?
* Hobbsee waves
<_MMA_> Hobbsee: You might be interested in this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=475227
<Hobbsee> _MMA_: neat.
<Hobbsee> _MMA_: riddell pointed that out yesterday iirc.  looks cool.
<_MMA_> Cool. :)
<lucas> geser: the cron is disabled due to resources problems on tiber
<bonii> j #ubuntu-motu-classroom
<Fujitsu> Hmmmmmm. Why has Xorg eaten 230MiB of RAM?
<Flannel> Fujitsu: it's hungry
<Fujitsu> Obviously. Even Epiphany has eaten less, and I've got at least a hundred tabs open.
<lathiat> has it been running for a month? :)
<lathiat> epiphany is probably using all that ram for X server resources it leaked ;)
<Fujitsu> Hahah. No, it was rebooted a couple of days ago after I left it running on the kitchen table, unplugged.
<Hobbsee> hiya lathiat, Fujitsu, Flannel 
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<Flannel> Howdy Hobbsee 
<tsmithe> geser, are you michael vorlon.ping.de? if so, thanks for the upload and the B-D-I stuff :) why are debhelper and cdbs still kept as Build-Depends?
<tsmithe> well, that question could be for anyone
<tobiasschulz> all MOTUs: can you check and maybe advocate http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5552 ?
<geser> tsmithe: yes, that's me. debhelper is still in B-D as everything (like dh_clean) which isn't only used in the binary-arch-indep target in debian/rules must be in B-D
<geser> the same for cdbs
<geser> lucas: ups, didn't notice that the files are outdated (as yesterday was also a 15th). I found this service useful.
<tobiasschulz> MOTUs: can you check and maybe advocate http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5552 ?
<pochu> tobiasschulz: any reason you're packaging it as a native package?
<tobiasschulz> pochu: ??
<tobiasschulz> "native package"?
<pochu> tobiasschulz: why the upstream tarball has the "0ubuntu7"?
<pochu> And why it hasn't "-0ubuntuX" (the 0 is the Debian revision)
<tobiasschulz> it has
<tobiasschulz> ...0ubuntu7
<tobiasschulz> 0ubuntu8
<pochu> Sorry, why it hasn't a slash (-)
<pochu> -0ubuntuX
<tobiasschulz> why a shlash?
<Fujitsu> pochu: That's a minus, hyphen, or dash.
<Fujitsu> slash == /
<tobiasschulz> why msut there be a - in the version number bofore 0ubuntuX?
<tobiasschulz> #
<pochu> tobiasschulz: yes, dash :)
<pochu> tobiasschulz: It's the policy
<Fujitsu> tobiasschulz: Because that's how the Debian versioning scheme works, unless it's a native package (ie. is specifically for Debian; there's no upstream releases as such)
<tobiasschulz> there is an upstream release ^^
<pochu> tobiasschulz: also, please rename the upstream tarball so it's jeliza_<upstream-release-number>.orig.tar.gz, but skip the ubuntu revision number.
<pochu> tobiasschulz: also, since it's the first release, use -0ubuntu1, rather than 7
<tobiasschulz> but i've iploaded it 8 times to http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5552 while i corrected bugs in the package
<pochu> It doesn't matter, as long as you don't upload to the archive :)
<Kmos> tobiasschulz: you'll learn more with time :)
<pochu> As I do :)
<Kmos> pochu: liferea v1.2.17 is out, you want to update ?
<Kmos> current: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liferea/1.2.16b-0ubuntu1
<pochu> Kmos: already updated :)
<pochu> I'm waiting slomo to sponsor me ;)
<Kmos> ha :) ok.. nice work
<man-di> Can some someone please look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5564 ? This fixes the runtime dependencies so that you can use every java runtime with it
<afflux> the source package swfdec0.4 had a ftbfs due to a dependency problem on 2007-05-03, which seems fixed now (at least it works in my pbuilder). Can someone restart the build-process (or tell me who I have to contact for that)?
<pochu> afflux: ask in #ubuntu-devel, any archive admin will reprocess it.
<afflux> okay, thank you
<crimsun> cd
<StevenK> persia: Okay, a few issues with sbuild.
<StevenK> persia: Number one, I miss my pdebuild, since it seems I have to make a source package before I can let sbuild loose on it. Secondly, my amd64 sbuild won't build arch all packages.
<persia> StevenK: `sbuild -A -d gutsy foo.dsc`, and it's handy to generate the right source first, as that way one can just dput source.changes if everything worked well.
<StevenK> persia: But pdebuild does it for me!
<persia> StevenK: pdebuild builds a source package, then builds the binary from the source in the manner of the buildds, then gives you all the logs and a dput'able source to upload?
<StevenK> persia: It will do everything but log by default. Logging can be turned on.
* persia likes the logs
<persia> StevenK: You could always write sdebuild, which would build the source, and call sbuild :)
<man-di> persia: time to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5564 ?
<persia> Let's see: first decide if it's -S or -S -sa, then build the source, then sbuild.  Hmm.  I'd use such a script, if it existed.
<persia> man-di: Sure.
<StevenK> persia: Personally, if I want logs from pdebuild, I pipe it to tee
<persia> StevenK: I think this is a care of preference for different automation :)
<persia> man-di: You don't need REVU for this.  Just attach the debdiff to 81876, and subscribe U-U-S (and I'm archiving the REVU, as it's hard to distinguish the latest changes from previous changes).
<man-di> persia: ok, thx
<StevenK> persia: Seems to be. :-)
<StevenK> sbuild seems a little fragile, too.
<StevenK> persia: Oh, a complete lack of usage information for sbuild is incredibly irritating.
<persia> StevenK: That's one of the reasons I prefer it.  I want it to break locally before it breaks on the buildds.
<StevenK> persia: I was actually refering to the lvm-snapshot bit, which the buildds don't use. I've seen that go boom twice
<persia> StevenK: Yep.  The documentation needs work.  I wanted to have a working sbuild for years, but didn't actually get one working until the instructions were put on the wiki.
<persia> StevenK: Are you using the latest schroot, with all the patches?  I'm still holding on to sbuild 0.53, but the latest schroot seemed to fix a lot of the LVM-snapshot issues I was having before.
<persia> (Alternately, Kees posted some patches for feisty schroot, if you prefer that)
<StevenK> I'm using the schroot in Feisty
<persia> StevenK: You need the patches from debian bug 391319 then :)
<ubotu> Debian bug 391319 in schroot "schroot: leftover processes cause umount to fail" [Normal,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/391319
<persia> (otherwise, yes, it's terribly broken)
<man-di> persia: is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcommons-dbcp-java/+bug/81876 okay this way?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 81876 in libcommons-dbcp-java "Dependency on java2-runtime removed" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<persia> man-di: In terms of bug processing that's perfect.  I'll look at the debdiff now (also if you just say "bug nnnnnn", the bot will spew the URL).
<man-di> the url was still in m paste buffer so it was easier ;-)
<StevenK> Naughty TheMuso!
<man-di> persia: thanks for taking a look
* man-di goes off to sponsor same debian packages
<StevenK> (His the GPG key id the Debian upload processor complained about)
<coNP> Anyone can help me why I cannot sign a package?
<coNP> Or better provide a detalied howto?
<bluekuja> StevenK, he tried to upload my package :P
<bluekuja> StevenK, but he missed archive
<bluekuja> ^^
<StevenK> He was aiming for Ubuntu?
<bluekuja> yea
<StevenK> Heh
<bluekuja> that's a merge I did
<bluekuja> and he was following
<bluekuja> ;)
<geser> coNP: what's the problem?
<coNP> gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use
<coNP> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<coNP> debuild: fatal error at line 1166:
<coNP> running debsign failed
<persia> coNP: put "DEBUILD_PRESERVE_ENVVARS=DISPLAY" in ~/.devscripts, or disable your gpg-agent.
<coNP> persia: many thanks, seems to work now
<persia> man-di: Um..  Why do we want to revert that change?  It looks like Mathias intentionally applied it for dapper, and I don't have enough context to know either 1) why it was applied, or 2) why it can be dropped now.
<man-di> persia: the fix makes it possible to not install gcj/kaffe when e.g. using eclipse with SUN JDK
<man-di> this fix was never correct
<geser> persia: see also bug #119560 which was acked by you
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119560 in libcommons-dbcp-java "Please sync libcommons-dbcp-java 1.2.1-5 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119560
<geser> and then a merge reintroduced the changes
<persia> geser: That's part of why I asked.  I personally think the sync was best, don't understand why the merge was processed, and don't want to be involved in an upload war.
<geser> as bluekuja is here, we can ask him why it was merged
<bluekuja> geser: didnt see the bug on lp
<bluekuja> so I processed it like every merge
<bluekuja> I already talked about it with man-di 
<man-di> ???
<bluekuja> man-di, are you talking about libcommons-java ?
<bluekuja> you pinged me that day?
<persia> bluekuja: Please check more carefully for package bugs and package versions in the future.  Also, based on your comment, I'll upload the reversion for ibcommons-dbcp-java
<bluekuja> persia, yeah sorry, really didnt see it on lp
<bluekuja> so I cannot do anything
<bluekuja> ;)
<man-di> bluekuja: libcommons-dbcp-java
<bluekuja> man-di, yeah
<coNP> Can you please sync revu keyring (I joined u-u-c team in lp recently)?
<Hobbsee> coNP: sure, i'tll be ~10 mins, iirc
<coNP> Thanks, I guess I can figure it when it is done, since I can start uploading packages then. Am I right?
<Hobbsee> coNP: i'll tell you
<coNP> oh, thanks :)
<Hobbsee> coNP: seeing as i can see the output here :)
<coNP> wow :)
<Hobbsee> coNP: it's done
<Hobbsee> wow, exactly 10 :P
<coNP> thanks, Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> no problem
<coNP> It is a pity I am not done yet. Can someone hint if it is a pbuilder setup error or a dependency error in my package: http://pastebin.ca/569742
<Hobbsee> coNP: means you dont have libpango1.0-dev as a build-dep
<Hobbsee> (apt-cache search pango, and pick a -dev package that looks likely, and try it)
<coNP> Oh, thanks!
<Hobbsee> no problem
<Q-FUNK> stange that something would depend on pango alone without gtk2.
<coNP> it is Openbox
<coNP> no gtk.* for sure
<DarkMageZ> if openbox doesn't use gtk then what toolkit does it use?
<coNP> I guess none
<Q-FUNK> coNP: http://icculus.org/openbox/index.php/Help:Installing
<coNP> thanks, Q-FUNK
<Q-FUNK> coNP: no problemo.  it's generally a good idea to look at a project's homepage before building.  they usually include a fairly accurate description of the dependencies.
<coNP> I wanted to update the package and first tried to build without adding anything. Actually I wasn't even sure if it is a pbuilder or a packaging error.
<coNP> but now configure is done, make is invoked
<Hobbsee> it's a packaging error
<Hobbsee> as in, you need the extra build dep
<coNP> Okay, thanks. I understand now.
<coNP> It is even compiling now properly.
<coNP> This dependency was the only one missing
<Hobbsee> :)
<Q-FUNK> groovy :)
<afflux> geser: before you start working on the quodlibet-plugins bug: I just got a mail from gutsy-changes that Andrea Veri has already uploaded -1ubuntu2
<SlimG> How do I make my .deb package respond correctly to a apttitude purge  ? I guess I have to add an additional script to remove config files..?
<SlimG> s/apttitude/aptitude/
<bluekuja> heya TheMuso 
<man-di> SlimG: thats normally done all by dpkg automatically
<bluekuja> afflux, what's the problem?
<man-di> SlimG: when the files are known as conffiles
<geser> afflux: I know, guess who sponsored the upload :)
<Q-FUNK> SlimG: unless your package manually copies files during postinst, it should be removed by dpkg automatically.
<man-di> SlimG: configurations files need to handled in *.postrm
<Q-FUNK> sync :)
* coNP wants to earn bonus points now (based on dholbach's excellent recipe)
<afflux> geser, bluekuja: oops. Maybe the launchpad mailinglist was a bit slow :)
<Q-FUNK> coNP: brownie points?  what's the recipe?
<coNP> Q-FUNK: :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<bluekuja> afflux, np ;)
<SlimG> man-di: I'm referring to those files stored in $HOME/.appname/  ,I guess these have to be removed with a .postrm file then
<Q-FUNK> SlimG: files in someone's home directory should never be touched, as a ground rule.
<SlimG> Q-FUNK: not even with purge?
<SlimG> Q-FUNK: well, thanks for your ground rule
<SlimG> man-di: thanks for your help!
<Q-FUNK> SlimG: the user might end up installing a locally-compiled package or re-use configs with a similar package, so no.
<Q-FUNK> lovely updating guide he wrote, dholbach.
<Q-FUNK> here, I guess i'm just used to the wonders of uscan.
<coNP> Oh I guess something went wrong. Can someone help me delete the wrong files from revu?
<tobiasschulz> MOTUs: can someone look at this and maybe advocate please: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5565
<coNP> dput says dcut might help for  official Debian uploads which is not the case I guess
<pochu> tobiasschulz: you need to create a file called "compat" in the debian/ dir, with a '5' in it (which is the debhelper compatibility)
<Q-FUNK> tobiasschulz: echo 5 > debian/compat
<Q-FUNK> sync :)
<tobiasschulz> ok
<coNP> pochu: can you help me how to delete an uploaded file from REVU? 
<persia> coNP: Which files?
<pochu> coNP: I'm not a REVU admin, but you can archive it, can't you?
<coNP> persia: openbox_3.4*
<pochu> tobiasschulz: also, you'd have to fix this: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/jeliza-0706160705/linda
<coNP> I uploaded the wrong files (i386 instead of the source)
<coNP> and as I wanted to dput it again it said it were not possible
<persia> coNP: Deleted.  Try again.
<coNP> persia: thanks
<persia> For general consumption: REVU does not support dcut (as far as I can tell).
<coNP> Yep, I tried and failed. Therefore I asked if someone can please help :)
<pochu> Hobbsee: are you a REVU admin?
<Hobbsee> pochu: not admin - but i have access. why?
<pochu> siretart and ajmitch are, but they don't seem to be around...
<Hobbsee> what do you need?
<Hobbsee> no, revu doesnt support dcut, neither does upload.ubuntu.com
<xxxxx1> morning all!
<coNP> How can I provide a file to a pbuilder that is not in Ubuntu yet? Actually I want to compile obconf that depends on openbox. I only have a self-built package from this version.
<geser> is aurora.ubuntuwire.com offline?
<persia> coNP: You can either 1) create a local repository, modify sources.list in the tarfile, pbuilder update, or 2) manually install the new software in the tarball.  #1 is much better.
<tobiasschulz> pochu: how can i fix that: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/jeliza-0706160705/linda
<coNP> persia: sorry, which tarball you mean?
<persia> geser: Dead for me (I can reach the router).
<Hobbsee> ew.  i tend to prefer 2.
<persia> coNP: the pbuilder tarfile.
<Hobbsee> geser: has been for the last week, i think
* Hobbsee notes that PPA makes #1 much easier.
<persia> Hobbsee: After one is done with experimenting with #2, one needs to regenerate the tarball.
* coNP tends to asks stupid a/o newbie questions today: what is PPA?
<Hobbsee> dpkg-buildpackge -S -as
<Hobbsee> coNP: personal package archives.  LP thing.  sor tof exists
<persia> (not really yet - hasn't been announced)
<geser> is the arch-all packages bug in PPA fixed already?
<tobiasschulz> how can i fix that: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/jeliza-0706160705/linda
<tobiasschulz> ?
<mok0> Who is the person in charge of the REVU programming?
<Hobbsee> mok0: siretart 
<Hobbsee> geser: no idea
<mok0> Hobbsee: thx
<siretart> mok0: yes?
<mok0> siretart: Oh, I just thought it would be cool to have an XML feed of the revu comments etc.
<mok0> siretart: There's a python module to do it
<coNP> How could I check out PPA?
<coNP> Is it possible?
<mok0> siretart: I guess the correct term is RSS feed
<mok0> siretart: just a suggestion
<pochu> tobiasschulz: I'm not sure, but try changing "Its" with "It's"
<mok0> siretart: gotta go, email me if you want to discuss further
<bluekuja> pochu, same thing I said him to do
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> that char is not allowed
<pochu> bluekuja: hmm, I can't see where you told him that :)
<bluekuja> pochu, he pmed me ;)
<pochu> Ah, that explains it :)
<bluekuja> :)
<tobiasschulz> ^^
<pochu> tobiasschulz: also, create jeliza.desktop inside debian/, instead of usr/share/applications. Then install it with dh_install
<coNP> persia: how can I create an own repository? Or maybe add a source package to the pbuilder tgz?
<persia> coNP: For real private repository management, I believe falcon is the current recommendation, but you can cheat by uploading to any FTP or HTTP (including 127.0.0.1), with a subdirectory for your private distribution, and a correctly formatted Packages.gz.  Someone else might be able to give more detailed advice.
<persia> coNP: Also, dpkg-scanpackages might help (depending on what you do).
<tobiasschulz> i've fixed the bug, it was the "" char!
<tobiasschulz> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5568
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<coNP> persia: What exactly should I insert to a "Source.gz" file (I guess from debian/control, etc.)
<TheMuso> Ok. I have a very frustrating problem with a package. Attempting to upload a merged qjackctl package for someone, and no matter what I try, even using Ubuntu's .orig.tar.gz file, I still get an MD5sum error.
<TheMuso> Sid's orig and gutsy's orig have different MD5sums, even though there is no difference in package contents.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: where does teh md5sum error come in?
<TheMuso> Suggestions welcome.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Soyuz says the MD5sum of a file, I assume its the orig, but it doesn't say, doesn't match.
<TheMuso> I don't have an email to refer to, as I deleted it in frustration.
<Hobbsee> right
<man-di> persia: when will the bugfix for libcommons-dbcp-java be marked fix released? Will be it done automatically?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: can you dump the packages somewhere, or maybe uplaod it again, and get the rejected email?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: dunno how best to help, when i cant see the thig
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I have done the latter.
<Hobbsee> *thing
<Hobbsee> okay
<persia> man-di: Um.  Let me check the .changes file.  It's supposed to be automated.
<shawarma> TheMuso: The md5sums typically come from different timestamps in the gzip part.
<shawarma> TheMuso: Um.. The *differing* md5sums typically.. etc.
<persia> coNP: In the root of the target archive directory.
<coNP> sorry I might not be clear I know the structure of a repository
<coNP> I just don't know what to put in the Sources  file
<shawarma> coNP: Are you publishing source files?
<TheMuso> Rejected:
<TheMuso> MD5 sum of uploaded file does not match existent file in archive
<TheMuso> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack
<TheMuso> verification.
<man-di> coNP: dpkg-scansources ... | gzip > Sources.gz does everything for you
<coNP> thanks man-di 
<coNP> shawarma: no I try to build packages depending on other packages built by myself
<persia> man-di: Not in this case.  The syntax is (LP: #bugnumber) rather than (LP: bugnumber).  Sorry for missing that.  Please mark "FIx Released" when you think appropriate (some say upload, some say build.  I generally follow build).
<shawarma> coNP: Then you don't need a Sources.gz.
<TheMuso> http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/qjackctl
<TheMuso> changes file and dsc file aren't signed, but thats basically it.
<man-di> persia: sorry for my mistake
<coNP> shawarma: then how do I tell my pbuilder to use the my brand new source package?
<shawarma> coNP: You.. Um.. don't?
<shawarma> coNP: You need you brand new *binary* packages?
<coNP> Err I am wrong, they build-depend on my brand new source package.
<tobiasschulz> (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5568):
<tobiasschulz> > 2) The package doesnt appear to do anything dur to the build: rule. Is the C++ code intended to compile? If not, why not? (README.Debian-source is a good place for the answer to this question). 
<tobiasschulz> > 3) If the C++ is intended to be compiled, you may want to check the library packaging guidelines.
<tobiasschulz> It's a QT application, so it is compiled using 
<tobiasschulz> qmake jeliza.pro -o Makefile && make
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: looking
<shawarma> coNP: No. They build-depend on binary packages.
<coNP> Yep. You are right.
<persia> TheMuso: I have a qjackctl_0.2.22-2ubuntu1 already installed.  Doesn't one need an upstream version bump before making an upload that includes orig.tar.gz in source.changes?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: As I said, the md5 of the orig in sid is different to Ubuntu's, but I used the ubuntu one for the pkg.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: did you have a bug # that you were working from?  this is a sponsorship?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Yes.
* Hobbsee hands TheMuso the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<persia> TheMuso: Which bug?
<TheMuso> hang on...
<Hobbsee> i've found the problem
* Hobbsee waits for the rejected mail
<bluekuja> persia, I did it
<bluekuja> e.g the debdiff
<persia> bluekuja: No.  Your sponsor did it :)  You were helping.  Thanks again.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: use this widely.  lionel is your target.
<TheMuso> Ok, twas me just not checking if it already existed, just like the original merger didn't.
<bluekuja> persia, oh :D
<Hobbsee> er, wisely
<shawarma> Hobbsee: There's already a 0.2.22-2ubuntu1 in the archive?
<shawarma> TheMuso: ^^
<Hobbsee> shawarma: yep
<TheMuso> shawarma: I know.
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Not for you :)
<persia> shawarma: yes
<TheMuso> I didn't check, as I assumed...
<shawarma> So.. Why upload it againg?
<lionel> Hobse: What I did ?
<lionel> rah
<lionel> Hobbsee: What I did ?
<TheMuso> bluekuja: DId you check before you filed the bug?
<bluekuja> TheMuso, yes
<bluekuja> who did it?
<Hobbsee> lionel: wasnt what i thought.  i thought you'd sponsored without marking teh bug as such
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: lionel's done the merge, without checking if anyone else had first, it looks like.  or bluekuja hasnt seen that lionel's already done the merge.
<lionel> Which package?
<TheMuso> lionel: qjackctl
<persia> bluekuja: Where did you look (remembering libcommons-dbcp-java)?
<lionel> Oh. I've done it yesterday yes
<bluekuja> persia, I've pushed a bug on lp
<bluekuja> for it
<lionel> You're talking about the mail we received on ubuntu-motu ?
<TheMuso> lionel: Please check if there is already a bug requesting a merge before you do it.
<bluekuja> and someone did it
<bluekuja> ..
<TheMuso> lionel: No, that was an accident by me.
<persia> bluekuja: Before doing the merge, did you search on LP for bugs on the package?
<TheMuso> merge sponsorship even
<TheMuso> persia: he said he did.
<persia> bluekuja: My apologies.
<bluekuja> persia, lionel did *NOT*
<bluekuja> and made the merge
<lionel> TheMuso: I think I checked before doing the merge. But I may be wrong
<bluekuja> so it's not my fault
<TheMuso> Its nobody's fault.
<TheMuso> We just need to check before we start the merge, and then just before we upload.
<Hobbsee> looks like they've filed on the same day.
* Hobbsee shrugs
* persia encourages unsubscription and assignment as documented :)
<TheMuso> persia: Thats what I have been doing.
<bluekuja> yeah
* persia smiles happily
<lionel> It's a 5min merge, we are not going to spend 1h discussing a 5min merge:)
<bluekuja> TheMuso, followed the policy correctly
<bluekuja> lionel, yeah
<bluekuja> dont worry for it then
<TheMuso> Will close the bug.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: already done
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<lionel> But I'm sorry If I did not notive something
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> lionel: i'd guess it'
<bluekuja> lifeless, np ;)
<Hobbsee> s been filed at around the same time, so oh well
<bluekuja> *lionel: np
<bluekuja> ;)
<bluekuja> lionel, qgis FTBFS in debian too
* TheMuso is off to bed.
<bluekuja> lionel, reported a bug to have it fixed
<bluekuja> (all archsa affected)
<lionel> I've seen your comment on the bug
<bluekuja> *archs
<bluekuja> gnight TheMuso 
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<bluekuja> lionel, we will wait till it get fixed in debian
<bluekuja> for the merge
<coNP> Someone up to review my brand new package (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5566)?
* coNP has now his very-own repository. Thanks everyone :)
<xxxxx1> anyone here is running at amd64?
<persia> xxxxx1: What do you need tested?
<xxxxx1> i've got a "bug" of ecryptfs on ia64 and create a fix branch
<xxxxx1> can you test?
<xxxxx1> it's *64* related.
<persia> xxxxx1: Do you have a testcase?  Is there a bugnumber?
<bmm> zakame: are you online? I've uploaded the new ccbuild package with the changelog line added: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5560
* zakame takes a look
<bmm> thanks!
<zakame> np :)
<coNP> If I uploaded some packages should I ask someone to review it (explicitly) or just wait?
<Hobbsee> coNP: ask explicitely
<Hobbsee> -e
<zakame> bmm: hmm ccClass and ccFunction are still patched outside of dpatch
<bmm> zakame: oh?? Oooh.. I've only replaced the ".sh" files when doing the dpatch... stupid of me.
<coNP> Hobbsee: whom can I ask? Maybe you? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=556{6,9}
<bmm> zakame: Thanks, I'll fix it now, if you find any other problems, please let me know.
<zakame> bmm: do check the build as well
<bmm> zakame: is that going wrong? I havn't had any problems yet with that... any hints on the problem?
<persia> coNP: Best practice is to announce the URL here, with the name of the package, any special considerations (python, java, library, etc.) and whether it is initial review, updated review, or seeking a second advocate.  If there is no response, try again the next day (there is usually a response).
<coNP> Okay. It is an Openbox update package, initial review. Two packges: one for Openbox (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5566) and one for its configurator, Obconf (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5569).
<persia> zakame: What's wrong with the build?  It works for me.
<bmm> persia: might be a 64bit thing??
<zakame> persia: not that there's anything wrong, just that always do a rebuild at every change. :)
<persia> zakame: Ah.  My confusion.  I concur.
<bmm> zakame: few... thought I had a problem with some weird architecture or someting.... :-D
<zakame> hehe... I've recently updated some of my debian packages, and while rebuilding's slow, its worth the time
<bmm> How does one check for bashisms?? I'm just guessing at the moment (I know about some things like "{}" etc), but there must be a script or something
<Hobbsee> dash -n script, iirc
<bmm> thanks
<leonel> hello motus
<leonel> did this  was canceled ??  bug  115269 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115269 in dapper-backports "[backport]  python-psycopg2 From Feisty to Dapper" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115269
<Hobbsee> leonel: ask jdong, we dont control backprots
<leonel> Hobbsee: ok 
<bmm> zakame: I've created a new dpatch and used checkbashisms to find any problems and updated the changelog. Currently I'm running a full rebuild . Did you find anything else?
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, do you have a min for a main debdiff (patch)?
* persia mumbles something about ubuntu-main-sponsors before disappearing
<bmm> zakame: I've made a new upload with a complete rewrite of the dpatch using checkbashisms to check for problems, updated the changelog and of course a full rebuild to check it all  ;-)
<bmm> Any MOTU: ccbuild is looking for it's first advocate of the newest revision http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5560
<bluekuja> persia: :D
<bluekuja> persia: nice hint :D
<zakame> bmm: what is in test.xx?
<bmm> oh ff
<bmm> that's my bad. A test program for the checkbashisms, wasn't sure it worked :-S
<bmm> bummer.. I'll remove that and repack it :-(
<bmm> zakame: I'm ready to do a new upload, do you want that or are you expecting more problems soon?
<zakame> cool, go on :)
<bmm> zakame: it has arrived http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5572
<zakame> bmm: advocated :)
<bmm> Yeah!
<zakame> bmm: the package synopsis could still be improved per http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-pkg-synopsis , but it's not urgent :)
<bmm> zakame: I'll take a look at that then, thanks!
<zakame> np :D
<zakame> gn8 folks :D
<porthose> good mourning all
<ScottK> good morning (I hope you meant good morning and not good mourning)...
<porthose> Could I please get a MOTU to review ampache-3.3.3.2.  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5519
<pochu> porthose: The orig.tar.gz shouldn't have the Ubuntu version (the -XubuntuY)
<pochu> slomo!
<slomo> hi pochu :)
<pochu> :)
<pochu> slomo: I've packaged liferea 1.2.17, which fixes some memory leaks, and other things. It's at http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb, if you can take a look at it...
<porthose> k thanks
<pochu> slomo: I've tested it, and works fine so far. I haven't changed anything in debian/ but the changelog :-)
<slomo> pochu: merged with debian? :)
<slomo> pochu: they got 1.2.16something
<pochu> slomo: They have just dropped dbus-1-utils, which we've already done
<slomo> pochu: and you merged the changelog entry :)
<pochu> slomo: so I didn't think it did worth...
<pochu> slomo: I didn't, but I can :)
<pochu> Gimme a second!
<slomo> please do so to keep the delta smaller and save you some work next time ;)
<pochu> Right :)
<pochu> slomo: uploaded :-)
<slomo> pochu: perfect
<pochu> Hmm, I haven't mentioned a "Merge with Debian". Is it neccesary?
<slomo> yes
<slomo> pochu: new version there?
<pochu> slomo: Yeah :) http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/
<pochu> Just uploaded with the Merge message and that :)
<slomo> pochu: ok, looking and it and then uploading .)
<pochu> Thanks :)
<slomo_> pochu: uploaded
<pochu> slomo_: rock on :)
<polopolo> hello all, does someoen know how I can import my GPG key from keyserver.ubuntu.com?
<Nafallo> gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-key <your key>
<polopolo> thank you :D
<polopolo> th server is off :(
<Nafallo> that would surprise me
<polopolo> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com/
<polopolo> :(
<Nafallo> you forgot the portnumber
<polopolo> Can I ask what you mean with <your key>?
<Nafallo> anyway, esperanza is up.
<polopolo> wich is it then>
<polopolo> ?
<Nafallo> your fingerprint
<Nafallo> in my case 509CBA71
<polopolo> ah
<polopolo> what is the portnumber then?
<polopolo> I know the portnumber know
<Nafallo> why not just use the commandline?
<polopolo> I lost my key in the reinstall
<Nafallo> then you've probably lost the private key too then?
<polopolo> I lost the key yes, but uploaded the key to the server
<Nafallo> the public key yes...
<Nafallo> you should have had backup of your private key...
<man-di> polopolo: then you are totally lost
<polopolo> ouch fine :(
<man-di> polopolo: private key is only on your system normally
<polopolo> how can I make it then?
<man-di> polopolo: create a new key?
<Nafallo> no! it's on the system and in all the secure backupplaces :-)
<polopolo> no, backup
<man-di> polopolo: and backup the key 
<man-di> polopolo: then you even cant revoke it when you have no revocation key
<polopolo> BRB
<polopolo> back in few min
<polopolo> for the people who helped my with PGP, I have downloaded my key, and it works :P
* Toadstool waves
<tsmithe> geser, thanks :)
<LaserJock> hello MOTU land
<pochu> Hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hola pochu 
<ScottK> Hello LaserJock
<LaserJock> hiya ScottK 
<jburd> Are the GNU Autotools manuals available for devhelp?
<tsmithe> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> jburd: I don't remember them being in devhelp, but I could be wrong
<LaserJock> heah tsmithe, get your packages into Debian yet?
<jburd> I remember browsing them in devhelp long ago, but that was probably Gentoo, I think.
<LaserJock> hmm
<tsmithe> LaserJock unfortunately no; wired's upstream have been a bit slow in getting back to me. so i'm just gonna go ahead and hack about with it
<tsmithe> LaserJock, wanna do some reviewing for me later? :p
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure I can
<tsmithe> heh ok :)
<LaserJock> I'm at my  grandfather's house and I don't know if I'll have access to my build machine at home
<man-di> tsmithe: just mail me when you are ready with the package
<LaserJock> I suppose I could try imbrandon's build farm
<tsmithe> man-di, will do for wired; i meant about ubuntustudio's art packages :p
<tsmithe> LaserJock, nah don't worry - unless you desperately want to
<man-di> tsmithe: aah, I thought its only about wired
<tsmithe> nope :)
<jburd> There seem to be references to devhelp-book-autotools in warty.
<LaserJock> perhaps Debian got rid of them for some reason
<jburd> Hmmm.  It's really easier to search devhelp within gedit + documentation plugin you know.
<jburd> Just place the cursor on whatever you want lookup and press F7.
<jburd> I'd really like http://htmlhelp.berlios.de/wiki/Devhelp_Books  these available.
<man-di> LaserJock, jburd: this was AFAIR becuase of GFDL
<jburd> Oh
<man-di> ...if I remember correctly...
<jburd> Bah.  licensing.
<LaserJock> man-di: that's what I was thinking
<LaserJock> Debian lost a lot of documentation to GFDL "stuff"
<man-di> LaserJock: most of it just got moved to non-free
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> it caused some issues with TeX
<man-di> LaserJock: debian still allows GFDL for main, just not with invariant sections
<man-di> LaserJock: and glibc and gcc and a lot more stuff
<LaserJock> yeah, but it's pretty common to have an invariant section for the license of the doc
<LaserJock> so it seems like there's a lot of stuff that got dumped into non-free
<man-di> yes
<man-di> how does ubuntu handle this today?
<LaserJock> we accept GFDL as far as I know
<man-di> LaserJock: always?
<LaserJock> as far as I know, yes
<LaserJock> we've got some of the non-free doc packages in I believe
<man-di> interesting
<LaserJock> we also have Creative Commons licenses too
<LaserJock> for some things
<LaserJock> which Debian doesn't accept
<LaserJock> but I think it's a bit more of a case-by-case basis
<jburd> I'd really *love* it if free software and open-source licenses cooperated with each other instead of figthing like street cocks.  In the end, nobody wins and everybody loses.
<LaserJock> I've never seen a policy doc on it
<LaserJock> jburd: well, people have to define free and open-source
<LaserJock> and some people are bound to define it a bit differently
<LaserJock> Debian tends to take the "strictest" approach to free
<jburd> Honestly, I don't really care about definitions.  I hate the fact that I cannot use extremely well-written code in my application simply because of license incompatibilities or the other way around.
<LaserJock> well, it certainly better than not being able to do anything, IMO
<jburd> GPL does not allow me to use a lot of software written by Apache (which produces really well-engineered stuff).
<jburd> Re-inventing the wheel is expensive and a waste of time.
<xxxxx1> hello LaserJock 
<LaserJock> but it's still the software authors right to define how they want their software used
<LaserJock> but yes, licensing can be a real pain in the butt
<LaserJock> and documentation licensing even more so
<jburd> Having to think a thousand times before I can touch someone's "free software" and care about their definitions is a pain.
<jburd> Agreed.
<jburd> I'd just like to write some software while reusing some really good code and that's that.
<LaserJock> sure, once GPL takes over the world it won't be a problem ;-)
<jburd> Heh.
<LaserJock> hence why it is sometimes called a viral license
<luisbg> hey LaserJock =)
<LaserJock> luisbg!
<LaserJock> personally if I were to write a program I'd probably MIT it or make it non-free, I think
<jburd> If everything were up to me, I'd leave everything in public domain.  Do whatever you want to with it.  No warranties.
<Burgundavia> jburd: the problem with that is that people will do evil things with it
<jburd> Don't they otherwise? :-)
<Burgundavia> because what really matters is the community and people, not the code
<ScottK> For me it depends on my purpose.  If I'm trying to evangelize a technology via a new program I'd go MIT.  If I'm trying to push Free Software, I'd go GPL.  If I didn't want to distribute source, I'd do it as a service and not distribute at all.
<Burgundavia> and while the gpl does not create a community, it creates an incentive to do so
<LaserJock> jburd: well, public domain doesn't really work so well. There are several countries where you can't make things public domain
<LaserJock> well, the GPL sucks for libraries
<Toadstool> jburd: use this http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/ instead :)
<Toadstool> hi guys
<LaserJock> hence the LGPL
<LaserJock> I've come across several problems where a community was split because a library was GPL
<mwolson> jburd: GPLv3 will be compatible with the Apache license
<Toadstool> uh gotta go, tennis time, that was quick
<jburd> Heh @ Toadstool
<jburd> The GPL reminds me of this "We'll speak your native language as long as it is English."
<jburd> Excellent stuff:  http://htmlhelp.dotsrc.org/
<jburd> :-)
<polopolo> is it a problem if a 32 bit computer package a  64 bit program?
<pochu> I don't think it's possible
<polopolo> ah o
<polopolo> k
<pochu> Though it is the other way, afaik :)
<DarkSun88> Hi all
* polopolo says hello to DarkSun88
<DarkSun88> :)
<polopolo> hello
<pochu> beuno: rock on with the stats :-)
<beuno> pochu, thanks  :D   was my pet project, I'm glad I got *something* out there
<pochu> It's cool!
<pochu> beuno: btw, do you have ubuntu-es.org forums support?
<beuno> pochu: nope, we haven't added it, would be great to have local forums added
<pochu> Yeah :)
<beuno> if would be great if you could file a bug so we can track requests
<beuno> :D
<pochu> Sure, doing :)
<beuno> thanks, it's going to hard to keep track of all requests  :p
<pochu> heh
<beuno> debconf is really taking up most of my time though
<beuno> happily so   :D
<pochu> beuno: also, what's 'LoCos (other languages)' purpose?
<beuno> pochu: should be other planets
<pochu> Doesn't seem to be atm
<beuno> no, it doesn't  :p
* beuno checks the cache
<pochu> beuno: bug 120743
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120743 in ubuntu-stats "Please add support for the ubuntu-es forums" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120743
<beuno> pochu: thanks
<polopolo> Must you install the program before you package the program?
<beuno> polopolo: it would be nice to, yes
<polopolo> mmm
<polopolo> ok, and I want to package swiftfox, I have a pentium 4, should I package the pentium 4 version, and upload it on the I386 section?
<Burgundavia> polopolo: swiftfox has a completely non-free license
<polopolo> so not approved for ubuntu?
<beuno> polopolo: yes, it just goes into multiverse afaik
<polopolo> afaik?
<beuno> as far as I know  :D
<polopolo> So no problem if I upload?
<Burgundavia> umm, I don't think you can even distribute it
<beuno> Burgundavia: but multiverse is all non.free software
<polopolo> why?
<Burgundavia> beuno: multiverse is only for stuff we can legally distribute
<LaserJock> beuno: Multiverse is non-free that we can legally distribute
<polopolo> lol
<LaserJock> heh, Corey beat me to it
<beuno> heh
<polopolo> hmm ok
<polopolo> Then I stop
<beuno> you two really spend too much time together...  :p
<Burgundavia> polopolo: lets check first
<Burgundavia> http://www.answers.com/topic/swiftfox
<polopolo> ah I see
<polopolo> MPL 1.1
<polopolo> Therefor the Swiftfox Debian package would not pass requirement #1 of Debian Free Software Guidelines
<polopolo> I see
<polopolo> I see not the problem :P
<ScottK> It's not the MPL, it's the Trademark on the name.  You can probably call it something like Swift-weasel and package it.
<polopolo> so, change the package name and not the proogram ??
<polopolo> I think I package another program
<polopolo> !bug 120699
<polopolo> #bug 120699
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120699 in firefox "[needs packaging]  swiftfox" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120699
<polopolo> not working :(
<polopolo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/120699
<polopolo> what must I do then with this bug?
<pochu> probably reject it.
<tsmithe> hmm revu doesn't want to diff between archived and new uploads, it seems
<tsmithe> siretart, ping re ^^
<tsmithe> i guess that's the cause
<tsmithe> check http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=4896&upid2=5582
<xxxxx1> bye all
<tsmithe> what does "E: ubuntustudio-sounds: copyright-should-refer-to-common-license-file-for-gpl" mean?
<tsmithe> lhttp://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ubuntustudio-sounds-0704240025/ubuntustudio-sounds-0.4/debian/copyright is the file
<ogra_> tsmithe, lintian -i :)
<ScottK> tsmithe: It means that a copy of the GPL is installed in all Debian systems and you should refer to that instead of putting the whole text in debian/copyright.
<tsmithe> ahh of course
<tsmithe> thanks
<crimsun> you're missing a reference to /usr/share/common-licenses/Artistic
<crimsun> and /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL
<tsmithe> thanks
<Kmos> crimsun: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5586
<crimsun> Kmos: the Debian maintainer has been active recently; have you conversed with him regarding a newer version in Debian unstable?
<Kmos> crimsun: I don't see debian package 
<Kmos> or talked to him
<Kmos> ubuntu can't have their own ? :) i've changed everything necessary
<crimsun> I recommend sending him an email inquiring whether he plans to update soon
<Kmos> the maintainer can also backport it to debian
<crimsun> the problem is not that Ubuntu can{,'t} have its own version.  It's that we don't want orig.tar.gz skew.
<Kmos> crimsun: why we need to wait for debian ?
<Kmos> .orig.tar.gz is from website of phpmyadmin
<crimsun> see above
<Kmos> crimsun: i mailed him
<crimsun> great
<Kmos> so phpmyadmin can only be a debdiff from debian unstable ?
<crimsun> no
<Kmos> the diff applied correctly to this new version and tested with pbuilder
<crimsun> unless you have a good reason to, I recommend you wait for new upstream versions to enter Debian first
<crimsun> a good reason _not_ to,
<Kmos> for example, i've updated ddclient to 3.7.1 and debian has an old version
<crimsun> Kmos: yes, and how active has the Debian maintainer been for ddclient?
<Kmos> 3.7.0
<Kmos> I think he isn't..
<crimsun> right.  Now compare that to the activity of phpmyadmin's maintainer.
<Kmos> crimsun: it's different :)
<Kmos> i understand now
<Lamego> btw, phpmyadmin on feisty is broken
<crimsun> we know.  See bug report referenced in -devel.
<crimsun> Feel free to propose an SRU.
<Lamego> it is far more easy to use a backported version, and I like to spend my time on a more efficient fashion
<Lamego> I guess someone noted the problem before the release
<Kmos> crimsun: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5587
<Kmos> crimsun: i needed to remove a patch from it
<Lamego> is there any exception case for doing an SRU with a full version update ?
<crimsun> SRUs should not be full version updates.
<Lamego> My question is, can they be ? I understand they should not be
<Burgundavia> Lamego: what app are you talking about?
<Lamego> Burgundavia, phpmyadmin
<Burgundavia> ahh
<Burgundavia> sru are supposed to fix specific bugs
<crimsun> Lamego: no.
<Lamego> SRU are restricted to sec/critical fixes, to avoid regressions, which is kind of pointless because the released package is itself a regression
<Kmos> crimsun: are you checking my ddclient update ?
<crimsun> Kmos: no, I'm doing upstream alsa work ATM.
<Kmos> :(
<crimsun> I don't multitask well.  If you wait a few minutes, I'll get around to it.
<Kmos> pochu: can you check http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5587
<Kmos> crimsun: ok
<Burgundavia> Lamego: if there is a specific bug, with a specific fix, that is a good candidate for an sru
<Lamego> ok, too much work to fix a single bug, when there are are potentially a lot of other bugs to be fixed
<crimsun> if everyone thought that way about every bug, then F/LOSS would suck.
<Lamego> crimsun, naming a blind update policy as F/LOSS is a bit of an abuse :)
<Burgundavia> Lamego: it is not a blind policy update
<Burgundavia> it has a clear purpose: to keep stable as stable
<Burgundavia> and not "today's crap that might be stable"
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-17
<crimsun> Kmos: \sh normally coordinates those updates.  Please check with him.
<Kmos> he's not here
<Kmos> the update is fine, you just need to upload it
<crimsun> Kmos: I think you're missing that he's the last person to have updated it, so you should at least ping him about it
<crimsun> that doesn't mean block on his answer; it means at least let him know if you haven't already that you're updating it
<Kmos> crimsun: i've the last person who updated it
<Kmos> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ddclient
<Kmos> Marco Rodrigues
<Kmos> we're talking about ddclient right ?
<crimsun> no, I'm referring to your query WRT wine.
<Kmos> ahh.. ok =)
<Kmos> crimsun: sorry
<Lamego> Burgundavia, on this case, to keep not working which is not working
<Burgundavia> Lamego: again, figure out exactly what is not working and update that
<Lamego> Burgundavia, and sorry to disagree there are current verions which are stable while the repositories versions are crap, this for particular packages
<Burgundavia> Lamego: file some bugs, get a list of them ready and then present your case
<Burgundavia> arguing on this channel is not going to change anybodies mind, nor do we have the power to say yes/no
<Lamego> we are just chatting, which is healthy :)
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> the SRU policy exists for a reason
<crimsun> Kmos: in the future, because the source package exists in Ubuntu already, please attach the debdiff to a bug report hosted on Launchpad
<Lamego> SRU makes all sense for OS/core components, not for applications in general
<Lamego> in my opinion
<Kmos> crimsun: I don't like debdiff.. :) I can do it manually ?
<crimsun> Kmos: debdiffs are part of our workflow.  What do you find annoying about them?
<Kmos> they take everything on debian and make it for ubuntu without changes
<Kmos> it takes more time
<crimsun> sorry, we may have met a language barrier.  Would you rephrase that?
<Amaranth> crimsun: he thinks you mean sync from debian
<Kmos> Amaranth: exactly
<Amaranth> Kmos: debdiff is a tool to create a diff between two versions of a package
<Amaranth> Kmos: to quickly show exactly what you've changed
<crimsun> in this case, you create a debdiff of your 0ubuntu2 against your previous 0ubuntu1
<Kmos> so, I can create an package and do debdiff to it without upload to revu
<crimsun> yes
<Kmos> i understand now
<Kmos> crimsun & Amaranth: thanks
<crimsun> np
<Kmos> the sync is the part I don't like
<Kmos> =)
<Kmos> debdiff packagename-version-old.dsc packagename-version.new.dsc > debdiffname.debdiff
<Kmos> and just need to do this
<crimsun> yes
<Kmos> thanks
<persia> If anyone has a couple minutes, would you mind looking at http://pastebin.ca/570888 as a candidate postinst for apt-file?  I'm worried I might not be trapping properly to avoid set -e breaking configure when the network test fails.
<nixternal> persia: that command crashes my terminal :)
<persia> nixternal: crashes, or closes?  The `exit 0` would normally close a terminal.
<nixternal> ahh, ya you are right
<nixternal> cut: the delimiter must be a single character
<nixternal> Try `cut --help' for more information.
<nixternal> that is what I get when I copy paste, it hasn't closed my other terminal just yet though
<nixternal> ahh, there it went
<persia> nixternal: Now I'm confused.  The command works for me, but I've been testing in a script.  Perhaps it's a quoting difference (-d backslash space space -f)?
<nixternal> hrmm, it could be
<nixternal> hrmm I wonder if the \ gets converted to a breakline? how does that work exactly?
<nixternal> because if you were to press enter after the -d\ it will breakline to >
<man-di> does somebody here knows what target is called directly before all the install/PACKAGENAME by CDBS?
<nixternal> the first line is doing it with the ^deb\ as well
<persia> man-di: You probably want to read the makefiles, but I usually use build/foo:: to do something right before install
<man-di> persia: I do read the makefiles...
<man-di> persia: my problem is that a package puts all build files into some/dir/$(ARCH) and has no "make install"
<man-di> persia: what I wanna do is cp some/dir/$(ARCH) to debian/tmp and then put the files to the different binary pacakges from there
<persia> man-di: Ah.  And package.install doesn't accept $(ARCH).  Why not use build/packagename::?  Also, tracing with "#!/usr/bin/make -d -f" at the top of debian/rules might help.
<persia> man-di: Note that overloads in debian/rules are processed *after* all the internal CDBS rules for the given target.
<man-di> persia: build/packagename:: sounds somehow wrong, I need to build at least 8 binary packages from this source package
<persia> nixternal: Thanks, but I've just realised I can test by putting a bad hostname in my sources.list, and running `sudo ./apt-file.postinst configure && echo clean`, to make sure it works.
<man-di> persia: but it should do the trick
<persia> man-di: Do all the packages need to be built prior to the copy?  Also, that's the recommendation from the CDBS documenation, but it may not be ideal.
<DarkSun88> G'night
<man-di> persia: yes, all need to be built
<persia> man-di: In that case, you might get away with overloading common-install-prehook-arch or common-install-prehook-indep, but I'm not sure that works perfectly.
<man-di> hmmm
<geser> crimsun: I've seen you uploaded ddclient (Kmos pm me about a review). Did you upload revu id 5587 or 5588?
<man-di> you are right, its at least the best possible option
<crimsun> geser: former.
<geser> 5587 dropped also debian/patches/checked_ssl_load.diff
<crimsun> ok, then just reupload
<Kmos> crimsun & geser: thanks
<altaaa> hello
<altaaa> anyone active here?
<minghua> altaaa: if you have questions, just ask
<bashelier> hey altaaa 
<altaaa> ah, ok...
<altaaa> mesa 6.5.3, will it be in feisty?
<crimsun> altaaa: no.
<crimsun> do you have a compelling reason to request a backport for it?
<altaaa> no not really, just want blur effects :)
<altaaa> i tried compiling it, but i'm no linux guru so I couldn't get it to work
<pochu> Night folks
<Hobbsee> hey all!
<SlimG> Why is it necessary to define the destination distro (dapper|edgy|feisty|gutsy etc.) in .deb packages? Shouldn't the dependencies and architecture of a .deb package be the ones that decides what apt supporting system the package can be applied to?
<AndyP> SlimG: probably because once a release is released, it needs to stay in the same stable state (give or take a few security updates and SRUs etc)
<AndyP> i didn't explain that very well, really, maybe somebody else could
<minghua> SlimG: one of the many reasons is that you can have both dapper and feisty repos, for example, in your /etc/apt/sources.list.
<minghua> SlimG: and you can tell APT which package(s) you want to install
<SlimG> minghua: but that's pretty much because all the packages chosen for dapper (to stick to an example) resides inside the folder http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/   , I don't think every package exclusively needs to be defined with "dapper" for sources.list and apt to have the neat function of beeing able to choose dapper packages from any distro?
<minghua> SlimG: Which "dapper" definition of the individual packages are you talking about here?  Because there are many.
<minghua> s/Because there/There/
<AndyP> SlimG: technically there's nothing stopping you from installing a .deb made for feisty on a gutsy machine or a .deb made for debian sid on an ubuntu box... apart from the breakages that might happen from using a .deb outside its tried and tested environment, that is
<SlimG> Pretty much any instance in the package that mention the distro the package was intended for. ex.: when the packages are frozen a give time before launch, what more is there to it than picking the most up-to-date packages that's made to that day, and throw them into ex.: http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/
<minghua> SlimG: how do you define "most up-to-date"?  the highest version number?
<SlimG> yes
<minghua> then how do you do security updates for old, released distributions?
<minghua> e.g., how to do dapper-security updates now?
<AndyP> SlimG: that's sort of how the debian unstable archive is put together... and as the name implies, it's unstable :)
<SlimG> minghua: put them into http://packages.ubuntu.com/old_released_distro/
<minghua> SlimG: packages.ubuntu.com?  that's just a webpage describing the packages in different distributions.
<minghua> there are no real packages on packages.ubuntu.com
<SlimG> Was about to mention it, I know the URL I'm using is totaly wrong, I'll see if I can find the right one to avoid misunderstanding
<minghua> AndyP: not really... the "distribution" field is actually more useful for Debian than Ubuntu, IMHO
<AndyP> minghua: i wasn't really commenting on its usefulness, just how it's used in ubuntu... my last comment was about how the debian unstable archive is made up of the latest packages (ok, if you forget about experimental :) )
<minghua> AndyP: I honestly don't see how unstable is different with respect to gutsy on this point, but I may be missing something.
<AndyP> minghua: i'm a little confused, i think our trains of thought might be decoupled in this conversation :)
<minghua> AndyP: You are saying unstable is basically "looking at all the uploads, keep the one with the highest version number, discard old ones, and make that a distribution", aren't you?
<SlimG> minghua: As I've understood so far, there's a separate text list that contains info and locations of the the newest packages in dapper, so there wouldn't be any difference afaik if the packages wouldn't contain a intended destination release like "dapper". Am I right?
<minghua> SlimG: I am not exactly sure how dak/soyuz works, but yes, I believe you are right.
<AndyP> minghua: sort of... i wouldn't really call it a distribution though, that sort of implies that it's the end product but unstable is one of the first stages that packages need to graduate from in order to head towards the next stable distribution
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> happy father's day for all father MOTUs :)
<AndyP> hi zakame 
<minghua> AndyP: By distribution I mean the "stable/testing/unstable" and 'feisty/gutsy" sense, not necessarily a release.  But yes, I know the terms are a bit confusing.
<zakame> yo AndyP 
<minghua> AndyP: My point is, then, gutsy right now (in general, the ubuntu development distribution/branch before release) is no different than unstable.
<minghua> AndyP: just that Debian has a second step, "entering testing", while ubuntu doesn't.
<AndyP> minghua: yes, it's not much different apart from the different kernel, gnome etc. and the ubuntu specific patches that have gone in so far... once the freezes start happening it'll become more "tight" (using musician jargon)
<minghua> AndyP: Yes, I agree.  After freeze Debian and Ubuntu have rather different package approval schemes.
<SlimG> It would be nice if Ubuntu could convert to the same system so that packages entering stable would be upgraded on all stable computers, instead of Ubuntu's way: wait 6 months for the next package version upgrade
<StevenK> SlimG: That statement makes no sense.
<minghua> SlimG: the same system as what?
<SlimG> If I've understood Debians system correctly, that packages gradually change "status" (unstable|testing|stable), not just by every whole release (debian 3.1 etc.)
<StevenK> SlimG: They don't change in stable. Ever.
<SlimG> StevenK: I'm sorry, I've got much to learn, and much of my knowlege is complete bogus :P
<StevenK> Debian can do stable updates for security and critical bugs, just like Ubuntu can.
<SlimG> So what happen's when "testing" apps is changed to "stable" ? won't the existing stable app by the same name be upgraded?
<Fujitsu> testing turns into stable all at once, every couple of years.
<minghua> SlimG: no, "testing" changes to "stable" when it's released, and after that the updating is completely different from updating testing/unstable
<SlimG> Fujitsu & minghua: oh, thanks for clearing that up while I was making a fool out of myself :)
<SlimG> Is the stable branch comparable to (these days) Feisty? and Testing/unstable comparable to Gutsy?
<DarkMageZ> SlimG, feisty/testing. gutsy/experimental
<SlimG> Edgy/stable ?
<DarkMageZ> edgy/nuclear... ubuntu releases aren't normally based off the stable branch.
<StevenK> You can't draw lines like that between Debian and Ubuntu
<DarkMageZ> not properly anyways. you can try.
<Fujitsu> gutsy == unstable, feisty == stable, edgy == oldstable. That's as close as you're going to get.
<SlimG> StevenK: Well, I'll store them as _very_ vague lines
* minghua agrees with Fujitsu, with the addition that such an analogy is not very close
<zakame> lol, only holds for references
<SlimG> But still, the day Debian testing branch moves down to stable, all stable installs will suddenly get several hundred new updates?
<zakame> gutsy.Equal(unstable) returns false
<SlimG> And ubuntu users has to change sources.list or use a tool to upgrade?
<zakame> SlimG: not really, the ubuntu archive iirc doesn't have dist target `stable', everything goes by the codenames
<zakame> only Debian has the moving targets
<SlimG> zakame: I believe that's what I wrote..?
<minghua> SlimG: Debian users still needs to run "apt-get upgrade" to get the new updates, and most of time it's much much more complicated than that
<zakame> apt-get update, even
<SlimG> minghua: I guess it doesn't take that much amount of work to install the same package update manager thingy Ubuntu/Kubuntu use
<SlimG> But still I don't see the reason for defining the target ubuntu release (dapper|edgy|feisty etc.) in .deb packages, but I'll wonder more about the use of that in my offline-sleep
<zakame> I don't think many productions servers leave automatic updates on everytime
<SlimG> thanks alot for your tutoring guys! ;)
<SlimG> Goodnight
<minghua> zakame: I believe both apt-get update and upgrade are needed :-)
<zakame> minghua: yes, in that order :)
<ScottK> StevenK: I did some more looking at python-scipy and even with the work Debian did, it looks to me like it's still seriously broken with the current python-numpy.
<ScottK> Oops .. I meant Fujitsu ^^^
<ScottK> Sorry about that StevenK
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> I a member of Pythoneers, so I'd hear about it anyway
<StevenK> s/^I/I'm/
<ScottK> I think it's going to come down to jump python-scipy to an svn release or revert python-numpy to 1..0.1 with some kind of 1.0.3+really1.0.1 magic
<StevenK> ScottK: You can't cherry pick some SVN patches?
<ScottK> StevenK: I'm not sure yet.  
<ScottK> StevenK: I broke it, so I feel obligated to fix it, but it's gonna be a PITA no matter how I go with it.
<StevenK> Ahh yes, bug fixing by guilt.
* Hobbsee waves
* AndyP particles
<Hobbsee> :)
* Hobbsee screams
<Hobbsee> no physics!
<Hobbsee> no evil physics!
<AndyP> whups :)
<Jucato> she prefers electronics :)
* AndyP walks the Planck
<Hobbsee> ewww, no!
* Fujitsu pushes AndyP for being so cruel.
* Hobbsee is getting rid of electronics, if all goes to plan :)
<coNP> Good morning everyone.
<Jucato> Hobbsee: what are you replacing it with?
<Hobbsee> Jucato: computing, mostly
<Jucato> woot! :D
<Hobbsee> maths stuff on encryption and the like
<Fujitsu> Crypto :D
<Hobbsee> it depends - come to think of it, i guess i can drop a phys subject if i want.
<coNP> MOTUs please review initial version of the window manager Openbox (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5566) and its configurator Obconf (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5569).
<Fujitsu> Isn't Openbox already packaged?
<coNP> Fujitsu: it is.
<coNP> It is an update. I was told here earlie I can wait for Debian to package it and / or create a package for REVU.
<Fujitsu> Ah, so it's not an initial version.
<coNP> In fact it is an update without any comments and reviews. How would I call that?
<Fujitsu> New upstream version, probably.
<coNP> New upstream version.
* coNP is a newbie and not sure if he have done the right thing. 
<AndyP> shouldn't the revision be -0ubuntu1 for a new upstream release?
<coNP> it is version 3.4.2
<coNP> Should it be openbox-3.4.2-0ubuntu1?
<Hobbsee> sounds about right
<coNP> So you want me to repackage it with right version numbers?
* AndyP disappears to catch up on some sleep
* Hobbsee read that as * AndyP disappears to catch up on some soup
<Hobbsee> coNP: yes
<coNP> Hobbsee: okay, thanks for being explicit :)
* man-di tries to patch CDBS
<Hobbsee> man-di: brave man.
<man-di> Hobbsee: thx
* coNP proudly presents the next version of his little Openbox update package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5589
<Hobbsee> coNP: have you thought about getting that into debian?
<coNP> Hobbsee: I have thought although I don't know how could I do that
<Hobbsee> coNP: tollef fog heen is mithrandir on irc, and who is a ubuntu developer.
<Hobbsee> so could probably take the ubuntu changse, and put them back into debian
<Hobbsee> coNP: ask him at the end of next week when he gets back, anyway
<coNP> that would be great
<coNP> Hobbsee: okay.
* StevenK ponders how to search for reverse Build-Depends
<StevenK> Yay! grep-dctrl for teh win
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i couldnt figure how to actually *use* that though
<StevenK> grep-dctrl -FBuild-Depends -sPackage 'libatlas-cpp-0.6-dev' /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_gutsy_universe_source_Sources
<StevenK> -F means 'limit matching to these fields', -s means 'only display these fields'
<Hobbsee> oh no.
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ grep-dctrl -FBuild-Depends -sPackage 'yada' /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_gutsy_universe_source_Sources | wc -l
<Hobbsee> 32
<StevenK> Heh
<Hobbsee> 3 in main
<man-di> cdbs patch created: done
<man-di> cdbs bug filed and patch attached: done
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> man-di: bug #?
<man-di> bug #120793
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120793 in cdbs "dont fail when building java source packages" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120793
<Hobbsee> looks...sane.
* Hobbsee might leave that one for pitti, though
<StevenK> man-di: Please don't paste patches inline. It makes getting them out of Launchpad a little harder.
<man-di> StevenK: ok, I thought its okay for this little fix. It was a bit easier for me this way, as I develop this remotely and a simple scp back is not possible from there
<coNP> Hobbsee: you mean that first I should ask Mithrandir if this package can be put back to Debian? And then you (or others) are going to review my package? Not that I want to force you to check it now, just asking...
<man-di> StevenK: are you working on atlas-cpp?
<StevenK> Yup.
<StevenK> atlas-cpp can be synced, but I want to make sure the three packages that Build-Depend on it also work before I request it.
<man-di> StevenK: I'm debian maintainer of it
<Hobbsee> coNP: means that you may as well prepare the package for debian so then we can sync it to ubuntu from there
<StevenK> man-di: Ah, right.
<man-di> StevenK: you might have a problem with current cyphesis-cpp and/or eris
<StevenK> man-di: Current eris looks fine.
<man-di> StevenK: I will upload new versions of both to debian today
<coNP> Hobbsee: Oh, I see. Then I'll contact Mithrandir when he's back. 
<Hobbsee> :)
<StevenK> man-di: With the cyphesis-cpp upload incorporate the Ubuntu changes?
<man-di> StevenK: thats done upstream now
<man-di> so no need to patch it for Python 2.5 anymore
<StevenK> man-di: What about sear?
<man-di> probably tomorrow
<StevenK> man-di: Okay, I can file a sync request for atlas-cpp now, eris will get auto-synced, cyphesis-cpp can be filed when it hits MoM and I check it, and I still need to look at sear.
<man-di> StevenK: okay
<StevenK> man-di: Thanks for helping clear it up. :-)
<man-di> StevenK: np
<StevenK> cyphesis-cpp looks to be okay, so far, though.
* man-di goes breakfast
<lionel> StevenK: atlas-cpp sync request has been rejected, see #118374
<StevenK> lionel: That's a wine bug
<lionel> right
<lionel> Bug #118734
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118734 in atlas-cpp "Please sync atlas-cpp (universe) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118734
<StevenK> Right. I'll prepare a merge when I get home.
* StevenK runs off
<tobiasschulz> all MOTUs: can someone please check jeliza ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5590 ) ?
<MadMan2k> hi, is there a way to automatically speed up package building on SMP amchines?
<MadMan2k> i.e. adding "DEB_MAKE_INVOKE += --jobs=$N" to the rules file?
<man-di> MadMan2k: when you put this into a debian/rules file this means you slow it down for non-smp maschines
<Q-FUNK> man-di: can you think of a way to make this work transparently, short of having an individual pbuilder pass that as an environment variable?
<man-di> Q-FUNK: not in a portable way, this was discussed on debian-devel ML a lot in the past and there were always reasons against it
<Q-FUNK> ok
<man-di> in Debian a debian/rules file setting a specific -j option always is considered a bug
<MadMan2k> man-di, yes thats why I ask wheteher I can set this option externally only for the machine...
<man-di> MadMan2k: perhaps setting MAKE_FLAGS externally and then exporting it via debuild -eMAKE_FLAGS, but its not garanteed
<man-di> MadMan2k: No garantee, I dont tested this
<MadMan2k> ok, thx
<tsmithe> zakame, ping
<tsmithe> hmm he's asleep
<pkern> ogra: I'm not entirely sure if it was you I talked with some time ago. Gobby does not depend on howl compat APIs anymore but uses Avahi natively.
<pkern> lionel: Thanks for stopping the Gobby merge.
<bluekuja> pkern, heya
<lionel> pkern: no pb :)
<bluekuja> pkern, when will it be available?
<lionel> pkern: thanks to you for keeping an eye on it:)
<pkern> bluekuja: When will what be available?
<lionel> bluekuja: it's not a question for pkern. The question is when archive admin will sync it. (need autosync)
<pkern> Aye.
<bluekuja> yea
<lionel> so next week is the answer :)
<bluekuja> ok, thanks 
<pkern> lionel: It would be nice if obby_0.4.4-2 could also be synced. This tightens the shlibs so that packages depending on it receive the correct dependencies. It's not strictly necessary, though.
<pkern> lionel: net6 does not need to be synced beforehand.
<lionel> pkern: yeah, I've seen your Debian upload
<pkern> lionel: I don't know how you handle syncs nowadays (:
<lionel> pkern: the two packages have no modifications, so they will be pushed in Ubuntu with the same autosync
<lionel> pkern: it's easy
<lionel> if we are in autosync period, on a regular basis, we have full import from Debian
<lionel> on June 21st, we will stop this autosync
<lionel> we will have to do request sync and they will be performed manually
<pkern> lionel: Ok, so you track sid in any case, fine. What are the rules for universe SRUs? #95967 and #70653 are most probably both fixed by the newest revisions. (More or less two one-liners...)
<Kmos> crimsun: are you there?
<tsmithe> he's asleep i think
<tsmithe> (and his away message would agree)
<pkern> lionel: One is a crash which is triggered when one tries to reconnect to a session. The other one is sporadingly popping up, a null pointer dereference.
<pkern> lionel: Or rather dereference of an already freed pointer.
<Kmos> tsmithe :)
<lionel> You have the full process described here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<Kmos> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aegis-virus-scanner/0.1.1-1 -> no more supported by author
<lionel> we have to first prepare a debdiff to be reviewed by SRU
<lionel> when approved, get it uploaded and tested
<lionel> and then it's pushed in stable release
<lionel> the most difficult part is get it tested :-(
<pkern> Well the net6 fix is straightforward but needs a recompile of Gobby and isn't that evident.
<pkern> Hm.
<lionel> gobby and sobby even no?
<pkern> I'm not using Ubuntu so well... it's harder for me to get involved. ;-p
<lionel> pkern: As I use gobby and sobby everyday, I'm fine with helping on that :)
<pkern> lionel: Yep, both.
<pkern> lionel: On gobby.ubuntu.com? (:
<tobiasschulz> MOTUs: can someone please check ans maybe advocate jeliza ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5590 ) ?
<lionel> no, I run my own server for french translation team (for translating Weekly Ubuntu News and Fullcircle, the magazine)
<pkern> Heh. (=
<pkern> It's really nice to see the program in wider use. Despite it lacking undo.
<lionel> Yeah, we often have this debate regarding undu...
<lionel> But it's quite complicated to implement no? Should undo cancel your action or someone else action? Not easy...
<tsmithe> could somone archive http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5581 ? i uploaded it by accident...
<pochu> tobiasschulz: I don't think you need this at all... http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/jeliza-0706170500/jeliza-2.3~beta3/debian/README.Debian-source
<pochu> The README.Debian-source is for when you repackage the upstream tarball, AFAIK
<pochu> tobiasschulz: also, the Ubuntu revision should be 0ubuntu1, instead of ubuntu1 (the 0 is the Debian revision)
<tobiasschulz> someone has written on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5590 :
<tobiasschulz> 1) The package appears to be shipping compiled object code, not cleaned in the clean: rule (.a files). 
<tobiasschulz> 2) The package doesnt appear to do anything dur to the build:rule. Is the C++ code intended to compile? If not, why not?(README.Debian-source is a good place for the answer to this question).
<tobiasschulz> 3) If the C++ is intended to be compiled, you may want to check the library packaging guidelines.
<tobiasschulz> 4) Is there a reason to only use python-2.4?
<tobiasschulz> 5) Why is Changelog better than changelog.txt?
<tobiasschulz> 6) debian/copyright specifies the GPL, but not all sources contain a GPL header.
<tobiasschulz> (README.Debian-source is a good place for the answer to this question).
<StevenK> crimsun: I'd like to discuss bug 118734 when you're around.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118734 in atlas-cpp "Please sync atlas-cpp (universe) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118734
<pochu> tobiasschulz: I see, Ok :)
<pochu> But you can still fix the revision number :)
<tobiasschulz> ok
<pochu> tobiasschulz: I can't understand why the package has 2 identical changelogs...
<pochu> And why we include both :)
* Hobbsee waves
<jussi01> hello all!!
<jussi01> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey jussi01!
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hiya Fujitsu!
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<bluekuja> heya geser 
<bluekuja> geser: I've reported that bug to debian too (for qgis). Now we have to wait to get it fixed there, and then merge it in ubuntu (next revision)
<tobiasschulz> pochu: i'll upload it now
<tobiasschulz> pochu: i'ts uploaded now : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5600
<Kmos> what's the dh_* to create the menu entry from .desktop file
<tobiasschulz> dh_*?
<Kmos> dh_installmenu for example
<bashelier> Kmos: there is no, just put the .desktop in debian/, and install it via a .install file ;)
<tobiasschulz> and how?
<Kmos> bashelier: ok, thx
<Kmos> tobiasschulz: bashelier answers me
<tarzeau> i've got a launchpad.net account. and a pgp key and ssh key
<tarzeau> can i make ubuntu packages here and dput them somewhere?
<RAOF> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<tarzeau> or was that in another ubuntu room?
<RAOF> Tada!
<tarzeau> how can i know my gpg key is in revu keyring?
<Hobbsee> see that webpage
<tarzeau> oh let me just read it
<RAOF> tarzeau: Well, you follow the link in that factlet :)
<Hobbsee> and it's not, until you join the appropriate team
<tarzeau> "Successfully joined Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe."
<tarzeau> can a revu admins re-sync the uploaders keyring?
<Hobbsee> sure, it'll be abotu 10 mins
<tarzeau> cool.. i've added the revu config to my dput
<Hobbsee> tarzeau: tis done
<tarzeau> Hobbsee: thanks!
<Hobbsee> no problem
<tarzeau> must packages be signed that i dput?
<StevenK> tarzeau: Yes
<tarzeau> (because i have many build hosts, and my gpg keys are only on one computer)
<Hobbsee> use debsign -r
<Adri2000> RainCT: ping
<Adri2000> RainCT: are you still working on merging gfax (bug #120245) ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120245 in gfax "gfax: merge new debian version (0.7.6-3)" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120245
* AndyP wakes up from his "soup"
<RainCT> Adri2000: hi
<RainCT> Adri2000: have I marked it as in progress? didn't remember about it, don't have much time this weekend..
<Adri2000> RainCT: yes you marked it as in progress. when do you think you will have time to do it?
<RainCT> Adri2000: tomorrow
<RainCT> I've holidays now
<Adri2000> cool, could you assign it you on DaD please?
<Adri2000> to you*
<RainCT> Adri2000: sure, how can I do this?
<Adri2000> just put your (nick)name in the comment field
<Adri2000> there is currently "Adri2000", click on it, change it and press enter
<RainCT> what url?
<Adri2000> http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
<RainCT> ok, thanks
<RainCT> done
<RainCT> Adri2000: so that's where I've to assign packages I work on to myself? on the wiki it only says to file a bug
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<Hobbsee> hiya
<jussi01> hi DarkSun88
<DarkSun88> :)
<Adri2000> RainCT: DaD is not "official"... but it's easier for everyone to see who is working on what on the same page, rather than looking for merge bugs
<Adri2000> jdong: around? (for a -backports upload check)
<AndyP> are there any repercussions from adding patches that would change the translation templates of the package? like patching _("foo") to _("bar") in a .c file
<pH> hi everyone, i would be interested in contributing to ubuntu but i'm unexperimented. i'v read some things about mentoring but i did not really understood how to find a mentor
<pochu> Hello pH :)
<pochu> This link has all the information to get a mentor: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<pH> hi 
<pochu> Also, you can ask here for help
<pH> yes i'v read this pages, but to find a mentor i'v got to mail someone or ask on the ubuntu-motu-mentors ? it is not very clear
<Bassetts> azureus seems to be borken
<Bassetts> *broken
<LaserJock> pH: I think you can treat ubuntu-motu-mentors as your mentor
<LaserJock> Bassetts: did you file a bug report about it?
<AndyP> i treat #ubuntu-motu as my mentor :)
<Bassetts> i came to ask if i should
<LaserJock> Bassetts: if it's broken it sounds like a good  idea ;-)
<LaserJock> just make sure to check to see that it's not already reported first
<Hobbsee> LaserJock!!!
<LaserJock> Hobbsee!!
<Hobbsee> or just...fix it.  azureus always seems to be broken
<Bassetts> LaserJock, i will
<Bassetts> Hobbsee, i have no idea how to fix it, just a clueless noob trying to help out where i can
<Bassetts> ok theres alot of duplicates saying azureus crashes just after start
<Bassetts> i have never looked into motu's before, but always wondered how to package things for ubuntu
<LaserJock> Bassetts: well, this is the place to learn ;-)
<Bassetts> reading the wiki now about packaging
<Bassetts> is there like anywhere i could find out what needs work on?
<stgraber> I think there is a need packaging list on LP
<stgraber> or a tag
<Bassetts> ok
<pochu> !todo
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about todo - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<stgraber> Have a look here : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging
<pochu> And here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO :)
<stgraber> hey pochu
<pochu> heya stgraber :-)
<Bassetts> thanks stgraber 
<Bassetts> so i just pick something i would like to package and read the guide, learn from mistakes?
<Bassetts> do i need to know hot to program?
<stgraber> Bassetts: also check it isn't packaged or going to be packaged in Debian and nothing is working on it (revu.tauware.de is a good place to check)
<stgraber> Bassetts: then yes, package it, you shouldn't need much programming skill (except writing the rules script (which is quite easy even for non-programer I think))
<Bassetts> cool =)
<Bassetts> ive always wanted to get around to learning to program and packaging 
<Bassetts> stgraber, where would i find out if it is being packaged in debian?
<stgraber> Bassetts: IIRC, you can find that on their bug tracker
<pochu> bugs.debian.org/wnpp
<Bassetts> ok
<Bassetts> thanks
<Bassetts> your all so helpful =)
<Bassetts> and patient
<stgraber> I think we all were at your place once :) (I still have much to learn about packaging though)
<Bassetts> :)
<RainCT> for what is the debian/patches/00list file?
<Hobbsee> to list all the patches in debian/patches/ that get applied
<Hobbsee> er, that should get applied
<RainCT> ah. is it normal that there're 7 .dpatch files in debian/patches/ but only 3 on the 00list?
<Hobbsee> if 4 have stopped being applied for whatever reason - changelog will usually tell you
<Hobbsee> as for why they arent removed ont that basis, i dont know
<RainCT> Hobbsee: ah yes, on the changelog it says they are not needed anymore. Thanks :)
<Bassetts> im so lost with the docs
<Bassetts> what does it mean by the *.dsc when using pbuilder build
<Hobbsee> Bassetts: * is a wildcard - ie, it'll try to build [anything] .dsc
<Bassetts> but what is the .dsc
<Hobbsee> open oen with $texteditorofchoice
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> it's part of the source
<Bassetts> so when i get the .tar.gz files there is one in there?
<Hobbsee> when you download a source from ubuntu, it has a .orig.tar.gz, a .diff.gz, and a .dsc
<Bassetts> ok
<AndyP> Bassetts: a source package is made up from three files - the .orig.tar.gz, the .dsc and the .diff.gz. the .dsc is the "description" of the source package, the .orig.tar.gz is the original source package (usually untouched) and the .diff.gz is the changes added to turn the .orig.tar.gz into the debian package source
<Bassetts> i think i am in wayyy over my head
<Hobbsee> Bassetts: dont worry, you'll learn.  you dont have to understand every detail
<AndyP> don't worry, you don't really need to know these details in depth :)
<Bassetts> ok
<Hobbsee> as you will likely pick it up later anyway
<Hobbsee> PACKAGING POP QUIZ
<Hobbsee> :
<Hobbsee> :P
<Bassetts> just keep reading and holding in there?
* AndyP lets Hobbsee do the talking
<Hobbsee> AndyP: please dont.  i'm heading towards bed
<Hobbsee> Bassetts: yep
<Bassetts> ok
<AndyP> Hobbsee: oh, ok, have a good soup, err, sleep
<Bassetts> can you give me an example of a .dsc though?
<Hobbsee> heh
<AndyP> Bassetts: pick any package, run apt-get source <thepackagename> and it'll download the source package for you... the dsc will be one of the three files
<Bassetts> ok
<Bassetts> but what about packages that need packaging, they are not in the repos yet right?
<AndyP> by definition, yes
<Bassetts> ok
<Bassetts> so like bug 120754 says PhotoRec needs packaging
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120754 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  PhotoRec" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120754
<Bassetts> the source for that program is in the repos, but it is not packaged yet
<AndyP> Bassetts: yep, and you can check it's not in the repos yet using apt-cache search <package> or by searching on http://packages.ubuntu.com
<Bassetts> ok, what happens if the source is not there
<Bassetts> im starting to get this =D thank you for being so patient
<AndyP> "there" ?
<Bassetts> in the repos
<AndyP> best thing to do is look to see if it's being/been packaged for debian and if it isn't, go ahead and package it
<Bassetts> i just dont get how like every programs source can be in ubuntus repo, its mysterious 
<Hobbsee> only the stuff that's been packaged for debian and ubuntu is in there
<Hobbsee> not every single program known to man
<Bassetts> ok, my brain is getting there
<Bassetts> if it has been packaged for ubuntu, why am i packaging it?
<Hobbsee> you shouldnt be
<AndyP> you wouldn't need to
<Bassetts> right
<Bassetts> so basically if something needs packaging it wont have a .dsc?
<AndyP> it won't exist in the ubuntu archive/repository at all
<RainCT> Adri2000: ping
<Bassetts> ok, i think i got confused because bug 120754 is already in the repos as testdisk
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120754 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  PhotoRec" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120754
<Hobbsee> Bassetts: if it's the same program as testdisk, then you can mark the bug as fix released, and say as much on the bug report :)
<Bassetts> well PhotoRec is a companion program to testdisk
<Bassetts> and testdisk is in the repos..
<Hobbsee> it seems that photorec is there too, looking at the descriptoin
<AndyP> Bassetts: well spotted :)
<Bassetts> they come together
<Bassetts> trust me to pick a program thats already there =P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> people have been filing bugs without checking recently
* Hobbsee saw one on nspluginwrapper a few hours ago
* Hobbsee just ends up marking as fix released, and pasting the apt-cache show <packagename> output there.
<RainCT> Adri2000: in gfax, there are 2 .gmo files in Ubuntu (de.gmo and en_CA.gmo) that aren't in Debian, do you know what they are?
<Bassetts> Hobbsee, you beat me to it =P
<Hobbsee> :)
<Bassetts> ok ill find another program to try and work on
<Bassetts> how do i check if its in debian or if it is being packaged for debian
<RainCT> !info libevolution2.0-cil
<ubotu> Package libevolution2.0-cil does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
<RainCT> can ubotu also look in gutsy?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> !info basket gutsy
<ubotu> basket: a multi-purpose note-taking application for KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.2-2 (gutsy), package size 4853 kB, installed size 7540 kB
<RainCT> !info libevolution2.0-cil gutsy
<ubotu> libevolution2.0-cil: CLI bindings for Evolution. In component main, is optional. Version 0.12.4-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 75 kB, installed size 360 kB
<AndyP> Bassetts: packages.debian.org for packages in debian already or bugs.debian.org/wnpp for packages that are intended to be packaged
<Bassetts> thanks
* AndyP wonders...
<AndyP> !info pybackpack sid
<ubotu> pybackpack: A user friendly file backup tool for Gnome. In component main, is optional. Version 0.5.1-1 (sid), package size 52 kB, installed size 428 kB
<Bassetts> a bit hard to use the wnpp site
<AndyP> Bassetts: yeah, there are a lot of bugs listed... edit->find is your friend :)
<AndyP> or ctrl+f
<Bassetts> ok =)
<Bassetts> starting to get all this now
<AndyP> Bassetts: yeah, the learning curve is pretty steep at the beginning but you get into the flow after a short while
<Bassetts> =)
<Bassetts> thanks AndyP, this is getting a lot easier
<AndyP> Bassetts: you're welcome
<Adri2000> RainCT: where do you see that? the .gmo files are in the orig tarball, which is exactly the same in Debian and in Ubuntu
<RainCT> Adri2000: ah, but M-o-M put them as *.gmo.UBUNTU :S
<crevette> hello
<crevette> are there tips available on the wiki to package python softs ?
<AndyP> crevette: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy is a good place to start
<RainCT> Adri2000: well, beside these two files (.gmo) I think the other changes can be synced
<RainCT> and those I've now idea what they are :p
<crevette> AndyP: tx a lot, I'll look at it
<RainCT> siretart: ping
<vijay2000> hi all 
<geser> RainCT: if I'm not mistaken he's at debconf
<RainCT> oh, ok, thx
<siretart> RainCT: pong
<RainCT> if I run dpatch-edit-patch I get make: *** No rule to make target `unpatch'.  Stop., does anybody know what the problem can be (or better, how I can workaround it)
<siretart> RainCT: read the dpatch documentation. you basically need to include a dpatch make fragment in your debian/rules files
<RainCT> siretart: I'm getting this problem with chromium, since you are the latest maintainer I thought I'd ask you
<vijay2000> i am changing notecase from 1.0.5 to 1.5.6 
<vijay2000> so in teh changelog wat will be the version that will be mentione d
<vijay2000> is this right notecase (1.0.5-6) ??
<RainCT> vijay2000: wouldn't it be 1.5.6-0ubuntu1 ?
<vijay2000> RainCT: yes you are right thanks 
<RainCT> siretart: ah I isn't using dpatch anymore :p
<siretart> RainCT: I don't like dpatch that much. prefer bzr
<siretart> geser: and yes, I'm at debconf
<RainCT> siretart: eh? I was asking how to patch chromium (got it :)), what relation does this have with bzr?
<siretart> RainCT: that I think that bzr is far superiour to dpatch
<RainCT> siretart: isn't bzr a versioning system?
<siretart> RainCT: yes. and dpatch is a patch management system. I think a proper versioning system is uperiour
<RainCT> well, and what has this to do with what I was asking for? :p
<siretart> only that I don't like dpatch
<sistpoty> hi folks
<geser> Hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi geser
<sistpoty> Adri2000: around?
<crimsun> StevenK: pong, RE: 118734
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<pochu> HALA MADRID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<pochu> I had to say it, now I feel better :-)
<bmm> Any MOTU: ccbuild is looking for it's second advocate, if you have time http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5570
<sistpoty> ok, gotta go to bed now, cya
<bmm> cya
<TLE> Hey most noble Master Of The Universe. Is there any chance that the new versione og everybodys favorite editor (Emacs) will be packaged for Feisty ?
<pochu> You can request a backport.
<pochu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+filebug
<TLE> will do ! I just kindy thought that i might have come up already. Thanks
<pochu> You're welcome
<geser> TLE: you mean emacs 22?
<geser> is it already packaged in Debian?
<man-di> geser: its in debian experimental
<man-di> geser: but not the final version
<Kmos> http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Kmos] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
<TLE> geser: Well it's not that I can't get my hands on it. I could just install it from source. I just like to try and keep my system as "clean" as possible (by installing as much software from repos as possible). I'm a little wierd when it comes to stuff like that
<TLE> I've filed a backport request. Thanks for the replies.
<jmg> what does DaD stand for?
<Kmos> jmg: check it =)
<geser> TLE: you can only backport packages which are in gutsy
<geser> jmg: it's an other MoM
<jmg> It just says DaD
<jmg> Mom = merge o'matic
<jmg> ?
<geser> yes
<jmg> hahahah
<jmg> lololol
<Q-FUNK> gutsy mom.  yikes!
<jmg> kekekkee
<jmg> jejejeje
<jmg> i laugh internationally
<jmg> zezezeze
<bmm> I laugh in my own language OR any other: 0xFFFFFFFF
<joejaxx> lol
<jmg> lambda while true; print lol
<jmg> lambda while true:; print lol
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-09
<jscinoz> hmm
<jscinoz> looks like someone misspelled cache in the description of the packagekit packages :P
 * nhandler is away: Away
 * nhandler_AFK is back (gone 00:20:39)
<marnold> hmmm
<marnold> opps sorry erong window
<marnold> wrong*
 * nhandler is away: Away
<Hobbsee> bah.  jono's gone
<ajmitch> given the time, I'm not surprised
<Hobbsee> well it was 7.36am local time of the ping
<ajmitch> maybe he looked at the thread on ubuntu-devel-discuss & gave up in despair
<ajmitch> poor nixternal, being a microvell shill
<ScottK> It was pretty ironic that he got singled out.
<ajmitch> He dared to defend opensuse
<ajmitch> That Mark Fink fellow does seem slightly irrational though
<ScottK> For some large definition of slightly, yes.
<persia> Could be a short definition too.  "very" works well.
<ajmitch> well, it provided some entertainment this morning when I sat down to read email :)
<jono> Hobbsee: ping?
<ajmitch> ah, there he goes
<ajmitch> Hobbsee was around just 25 minutes ago
<LaserJock> man, I wonder what power that pointy stick of doom holds that she can summon people half a world away ;-)
<ajmitch> It can even summon people from on vacation
<jono> heh
<persia> ajmitch: Never underestimate the power of the Long Pointy Stick
<Hobbsee> jono: pong
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: hah.  it's very powerful.
<jono> Hobbsee: :)
 * ScottK considers popcorn.
<ajmitch> persia: it's certainly scary, that's for sure
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it's been known to almost set someone's house on fire, too
<ajmitch> uh oh
 * ajmitch had better get home quick
 * imbrandon hides his flamable house
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: you have an *in*flammible house?
<imbrandon> nope the stick could bring its wrath down on it if wanted, thus i hid it
<ajmitch> hello imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
 * imbrandon replaced his xbox with ubuntu+xbmc :)
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<nxvl> morning!
<nxvl> dholbach: i was looking for you
<dholbach> hi nxvl
<nxvl> dholbach: did you have the gobby document we use on the Packaging Jam on Prague?
<nxvl> i going to run some packaging Jams here
<nxvl> and i want to merge some docs
<dholbach> nxvl: no I'm sorry - I didn't save it
<nxvl> to prepare my material
<dholbach> nxvl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/HandsOn should be a good start though
<nxvl> mm
<nxvl> dholbach: yes, i was looking at this doc, i just want some more for the examples
<dholbach> nxvl: try fixing a bitesize bug
<nxvl> dholbach: yep, i will
<nxvl> if i have time
<nxvl> since it's a conference i have been invited i don't know how much time i have
<nxvl> i'm going to have some sleep
<dholbach> nxvl: I'm sure it's going to be great! :)
<nxvl> see you later!
<nxvl> dholbach: i hope!
 * dholbach hugs nxvl
 * nxvl HUGS dholbach back
<\sh> why nobody tells me, that I'm now a member of motu sru team?
<persia> \sh: Well, you're supposed to be subscribed to ubuntu-motu@ ...
<\sh> persia: it's monday morning...and I'm trying to catch up
<\sh> :)
<\sh> hmm....
<\sh> I shouldn't read email in the morning...
<theseinfeld> anybody up for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libdc1394-22
<theseinfeld> revu?
<theseinfeld> anybody?
<theseinfeld> :D
 * theseinfeld feeling anxious today...
<theseinfeld> dholbach? :)
<dholbach> hiya theseinfeld
<theseinfeld> lool LucidFox Hobbsee persia? It should be quite ready by now...
<theseinfeld> howdy ho :)
<theseinfeld> how is your monday morning dholbach :)
<dholbach> theseinfeld: fine, but quite busy
<persia> theseinfeld: Why ping us?
<Hobbsee> theseinfeld: ?
<theseinfeld> damn, mine is quite quiet :) dholbach. Well, I guess I can wait for a better morning :)
<theseinfeld> You were reviewing the package earlier... Thought to give it a try since is there, dead since the feature freeze :)
<LucidFox> hello theseinfeld
<theseinfeld> hell o LucidFox
<LucidFox> I'll review your package when I have some free time - which I currently don't have, sorry
<theseinfeld> ok
 * Hobbsee doesn't recall reviewing it, per se.
 * theseinfeld might be wrong. He must recall the name from some other things...
<persia> theseinfeld: I still don't see the point of parallel source packages, especially for a new cycle.
<theseinfeld> it was well explained...
<theseinfeld> basically, to put it short, until we get all the rdeps to change to new one, we have to use both
<theseinfeld> there are big packages like mplayer and blender
<theseinfeld> I don't think I can get those guys to change the dependency to the new API in one increment :)
 * theseinfeld wonders as persia
<theseinfeld> perisia, you in Tokyo?
 * lool waves
<persia_> theseinfeld: The point is that for intrepid, there's absolutely no value to releasing in the middle of a transition.  Just push the updated API with the new binary package name, and rebuild all the rdepends.
<persia_> For Hardy, it made some sense, as the package was being discussed late in the cycle.
<theseinfeld> it will not work
<theseinfeld> the rdepends
<theseinfeld> to rebuild
<theseinfeld> it has a different API
<theseinfeld> ABI
<theseinfeld> everything is changed in the new package
<theseinfeld> well, almost
<theseinfeld> so...
<persia> theseinfeld: Right, so we port it.
<theseinfeld> I have no power to rebuild all the rdepends
<theseinfeld> :D
<theseinfeld> and the idea was to have them both working together
<persia> theseinfeld: As much as you have power to include a package.
<theseinfeld> the new one will work later also with the Juju stack in the kernel
<persia> Right, so let's just use the new one
 * persia wants more juju
<theseinfeld> it is like saying lets just use KDE4
<theseinfeld> you still can go one round in parallel
<persia> theseinfeld: Right, and for intrepid, we are saying that.
<theseinfeld> yes, persia, it was quite an effort to get it run in parallel
<persia> I guess they could be in parallel.  I just don't see the point.
<theseinfeld> LOL
<theseinfeld> the point is that we cannot just take the old one yet
 * Hobbsee beats persia with a stick.
<persia> OK.  When you introduce a source package for a library with changed binary package names, the rdepends show on NBS.
<Hobbsee> persia: now you're green.  stop it.  go back to light blue.
<persia> Then, it just takes clearing NBS.
<persia> Hobbsee: I can be any color I want!
<Hobbsee> persia: no you can't!
 * Hobbsee gets out the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!â¢
<persia> theseinfeld: As proof of concept, try the rdepends builds in a PPA.  I suspect that the failures ought be easy to clean.
<persia> Further, I'd rather consider them bugs.  We still ship wx2.4, which is unfixable outside en_US, as a result of trying to have things in parallel.
<Hobbsee> \o/.  persia is now light blue again.
 * persia is *always* in awe of the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!â¢
<Hobbsee> hehe
 * theseinfeld is confused...so which colour is the package then?
<persia> theseinfeld: packages don't have colours, although they may be components of flavours
<theseinfeld> LOL
<theseinfeld> seriously, persia, I don't think there is going to be easy way with rdepends as the library is completely rewritten. I mean, there are different headers, different API, different functions, structures
<theseinfeld> I can try, and if it fails :)
<theseinfeld> then, what do I get?
<theseinfeld> persia, what is the price? Can I be yellow :)
<dave_> interested in MOTU!
<persia> dave_: What do you like to do?
<dave_> Beryl-Compiz
<persia> theseinfeld: Sure.  It requires porting some apps.  Why not do it between now and September?
<persia> dave_: Hmm.  I didn't think we shipped that anymore.  How about just compiz?
<dave_> Have no Idea were to start! Kinda of a newbie.
<dave_> I find Beryl easier to use. Have Issues getting compiz to work well!
<persia> dave_: Well, MOTU is resposible for the Universe and Multiverse repositories.  With the help of about 300 other people (of which you could be one), we try to fix all the outstanding bugs, handle library transitions, ensure everything can install, and generally keep the software up-to-date.
<theseinfeld> persia, did you check that debian has it like this?
<theseinfeld> http://packages.debian.org/lenny/libdc1394-22
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing has some hints to get you started.  Basically, pick a package, fix it, and get it into the repos.  Then find another package.
<dave_> Ok i'll give that a try thanks!
<theseinfeld> maybe dave_ could do the blender with libdc1394-22
<theseinfeld> :D
<persia> theseinfeld: I didn't.  I still don't agree it should be a separate source package.  Further, if Debian has it like that, I don't see any point to something on REVU: hasn't it already been sync'd from Debian?
<theseinfeld> nope
<theseinfeld> it was not sync'ed as they got it a bit wrong, and since I couldn't get it through to them, I wanted to get through to ubuntu
 * persia looks at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdc1394-22 , and doesn't trust that assertion.
<persia> Mind you, I still think it's wrong, but that argument is apparently already lost...
<theseinfeld> so, all my effort is gone the drains?
 * theseinfeld is totally confussed now...
<persia> theseinfeld: Submit a patch against the current libdc1394-22 in intrepid.
<theseinfeld> where to? persia
<persia> theseinfeld: If you want to implement a change, submit a patch against the current package in intrepid.
<theseinfeld> to the libdc1394 project?
<persia> To a bug in launchpad against the libdc1394-22 source
<theseinfeld> all righty then
<persia> For best chance of success, submit the patch in debdiff format against an update, and subscribe the universe sponsors.
<devfil> anyone can review a package on REVU?
<persia> devfil: Anyone can review a package, but not everyone can advocate.
<devfil> Someone can review and advocate a package in REVU?
<persia> devfil: If you're seeking review, best to include the URL to the package, and the number of current advocates.
<devfil> persia: I wrote bad
<persia> devfil: No worries :)
<devfil> persia: is a new package
<devfil> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=galaxium
<theseinfeld> persia, can you help me with the debdiff bug reporting?
<persia> theseinfeld: What sort of help do you require?
<theseinfeld> ok
<theseinfeld> so, I am the maintainer in launchpad for the libdc1394 project which is related to the libdc1394
<theseinfeld> now
<theseinfeld> report bug, what do I fill there to get into the right place for the source?
<theseinfeld> like, https://edge.launchpad.net/libdc1394/+filebug-advanced
<persia> You want soemthing like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdc1394-22/+filebug-advanced.
<persia> It's important that it gets filed against the Ubuntu project if you want to change something in Ubuntu, and important that you use the correct source name (as we have this split, especially designed to support lazy upstreams)
<theseinfeld> it won't be lazy if I am in
<theseinfeld> :D
<theseinfeld> do I need any tags there?
<persia> theseinfeld: Not specifically you, but all the various applications for whom porting will now not be RC for intrepid, as the old API is still available.
<theseinfeld> persia, you mean rdepends?
<persia> theseinfeld: precisely
<theseinfeld> apt-cache rdepends libdc1394-13, persia, to be more prcise, for the old library and not for the new -22 library
<persia> theseinfeld: It doesn't matter, as we have two source packages.  I'd like to see libdc1394-13 dropped, end encourage anything towards that goal.
<theseinfeld> ok, so it is better to include every old rdepends to get people acknowledge the new upstream API
<persia> theseinfeld: For what?  Now I'm afraid I've confused you.
<theseinfeld> for the tags in the bug report
<theseinfeld> :D
<persia> You don't need any tags (I think)
<theseinfeld> persia, do you agree that I should put all the rdepends pkgs ?
<persia> theseinfeld: For what?
<theseinfeld> OK
<theseinfeld> no, I got it all wrong
<theseinfeld> I asked if I need any tags and you answer something that left me think I should use the apps from rdepends
<theseinfeld> ;D
 * theseinfeld too fast...
<theseinfeld> persia, check this out: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdc1394-22/+bug/238492
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238492 in libdc1394-22 "Changes to allow better integration in Ubuntu" [Undecided,New]
<huats> morning everyone
<persia> theseinfeld: 1) Possible improvements: describe the specific improvements from using the changes in the bug description, 2) try to find something a little more "in-between" for a candidate (as that's a massive diff, and some to no clear benefit (e.g. CDBS)
<theseinfeld> persia, you mean I should add those?
<persia> theseinfeld: I was thinking more in terms of modification than addition, but it would increase the chances that such a change would be accepted.
<theseinfeld> added some comments
<theseinfeld> check again bug 238492
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238492 in libdc1394-22 "Changes to allow better integration in Ubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/238492
<theseinfeld> persia, have to go lunch...
<theseinfeld> persia see you after...
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<\sh> moins sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi \sh
<devfil> Someone can review galaxium package on REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=galaxium
<devfil> Someone can review galaxium package on REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=galaxium
<persia> devfil: I'd encourage you not to ask about a given package more than once a day.
<persia> Some people use this as a criteria for packages to skip.
<devfil> persia: ok
<persia> Also, be especially careful when there isn't much other traffic in the channel: some people mute parts/joins and so they see things as duplicate.
<sebner> persia: I love and I hate you :P
<persia> sebner: Then I'm doing things correctly :)  (cf. De Principatibus)
<sebner> persia: hrhr. nexuiz \o/,  but less time for school ^^
<theseinfeld> persia, I am back...
<\sh> guys, is anyone familiar with ggz and especially ggz-config?
<devfil> Someone can review galaxium package on REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=galaxium
<x_dimitri> Hi guys, I'm an ubuntu enthusiast and would like to get involved with ubuntu as a contributing developer. ï»¿I have read the docs on wiki.ubuntu.com and would like practical advice on skills to master (programming language(s), paradigms, e.t.c, - anything you deem useful/important) in order to get involved. What say ye?
<persia> x_dimitri: It really depends on what you want to do.
<persia> If you want to maintain packages, the best skills to develop are make and shell.
<persia> Beyond that familiarity with any and all programming languages is beneficial.
<persia> As is an understanding of how the various bits fit together into the whole.
<persia> As a way to get started, I'd recommend looking through triaged bugs.  When you find one you understand, develop a solution.  After a few of these, the answers you get here, and the things you research towards a solution will probably help guide your next bug.
<x_dimitri> persia: ok...
<persia> x_dimitri: Good luck, and please ask if you have any questions.  We're generally glad to help, although more likely to provide pointers to things than actually explain them.
<x_dimitri> persia: yup, I noticed that
<x_dimitri> I guess go through the wiki again, but what I seem to understand so far, is that bug reporting is the only way in... i.e. as an Ubuntero..
<x_dimitri> is that correct?
<joaopinto> you can report bugs, fix bugs, update packages, etc
<x_dimitri> joaopinto: it appears there's different levels of involvement: ubuntero, motu, e.t.c
<persia> x_dimitri: There are different levels of involvement, but aside from "Ubuntero", all are granted as recognition of past work done.
<persia> The first step is to declare yourself bound by the code of conduct, and beholden to the Community Council (Ubuntero).
<persia> That done, you are welcome to do anything, and if you do it well, your work will become part of Ubuntu.
<persia> With a body of well-done work, you may be granted additional roles or titles.
<x_dimitri> persia: ok, thank you
<x_dimitri> How is that declaration done? I didn't find any web-based means to do this (a form maybe). There was a document that was meant to be downloaded... Could you point me in the right direction?
<persia> x_dimitri: Download and sign the Code of Conduct from your launchpad account.  Be sure that you take care to keep your GPG key once you've done so, as GPG is used for authentication in a number of places.
<x_dimitri> persia: ok, thank you.
 * ScottK suggests reading it before you sign it.
<ScottK> ;-)
<x_dimitri> ScottK: :-)
<mouz> I fixed bug 198292. Would anyone like to sponsor it as an update? I posted the debdiff in launchpad.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 198292 in motion "Hardy upgrade - motion halts upgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198292
<persia> mouz: Generally it's best practice to attach debdiffs for both the current development release and an SRU candidate.  I'd recommend ubuntu0.1 for hardy and ubuntu1 for intrepid: beyond that the fix ought be essentially the same.
<persia> Also, motu-sry has yet to indicate whether this patch is acceptable for upload.  Until that happens, it will not be uploaded to hardy-proposed.
<leonel> ScottK: clamav 0.93.1   is out ...
<mouz> persia: ok thanks. I will create those.
<popey> if I do "apt-get build-dep firefox", and then later want to remove those build-deps, what apt incantation can i use?
<gnomefreak> popey: deborphan?
<gnomefreak> there is no apt removal for build-deps
<\sh> grmpf..
<\sh> has anyone problems with mono on intrepid?
<\sh> looks like mono is somehow b0rked
<popey> hmm, thats a shame
<gnomefreak> popey: i have seen them show up in autoremove but i dont remember what triggers it
<gnomefreak> \sh: mono is used system wide can you give an example?
<gnomefreak> popey: pbuilder IIRC removes them once package is done but i dont use pbuilder i use chroots
<popey> problem is if you used neither, you have lots of build deps kicking around
<popey> and no way to identify / remove them easily
<gnomefreak> maybe removing *.dev
<\sh> gnomefreak: I'm trying to build muine
<\sh> gnomefreak: and it failes because of not installable b-ds
<gnomefreak> but that is a long shot, and you should always use one or the other when building packages since there is no easy way to remove the clutter
 * \sh uses sbuild , as it's used by our buildds :)
<gnomefreak> \sh: i havent tried to build anything with mono since most if not all mozilla apps dont use it
 * nhandler_AFK is back (gone 10:32:19)
<persia> popey: A recipe that works for me is to always use aptitude to install anything I want, and make everything else as automatically installed.  I only use apt-get for build-dep, so everything apt-get installed is automatically marked for removal next time I run aptitude.
<popey> hmm
<popey> thats an idea
<ScottK> leonel: I saw.  Am about to look to see if there are any security fixes.
<Hobbsee> nhandler: please turn off that away message
<nhandler> Hobbsee, I think I disabled it now. It was an xchat setting
<Hobbsee> nhandler: yeah, i realised.
<Hobbsee> nhandler: thanks
<nhandler> Hobbsee, np
<ScottK> leonel: One security fix.  Do you have time to work on it?
<leonel> ScottK: any cve ??
<ScottK> leonel: Not that I can find.
<leonel> ok  I'll check that
<ScottK> Changelog says fix possible memory access and they committed it at the same time as the release, so it's a security fix.
<leonel> libclamav/petite.c: fix possible invalid memory access (bb#1000)
<leonel> 			Reported by Damian Put  <-- is this ??
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> The bug is also marked private in their bugzilla.
<leonel> ScottK: ok  I'll check it and see any diff with 0.93
<ScottK> leonel: I've looked at the source already
<ScottK> leonel: If you diff libclamav/petite.c between 0.93 and 0.93.1 you'll get a diff that looks like it will apply cleanly to our 0.92.1 package.
<leonel> perfect !
<leonel> ScottK:  I'll start workin on in in 2 hours   it's ok with you ??
<ScottK> leonel: Yes.
<ScottK> leonel: I'll file a bug for you to work on.
<leonel> ScottK: ok
<ScottK> leonel: Bug #238575 - The diff is in the bug, it just needs to be packages for each release.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238575 in clamav "Possible invalid memory access in versions before 0.93.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/238575
<leonel> ScottK:  Thanks ..
<leonel> I start in 2hours
<ScottK> Great.  I'm assigning it to you ....
<lool> slangasek: w00t
<lool> slangasek: Any idea why virtualbox-ose-modules is built against -17 in intrepid instead of -16?
<lool> I'm adding lpia support to it, but it wont build for me as there's no -17 kernel package in intrepid
<lool> slangasek: Also, I'd be tempted to do the same in hardy-proposed if you don't mind :)
<lukehasnoname> any idea when soren will be on? PS
<lukehasnoname> er, dang, wrong channel.
<norsetto> TartePoireauxCra? TartePoireauxGras!?
<norsetto> TartePoireauxCravattes!
 * ScottK doesn't know what norsetto is one, but he might like to have some of it.
<norsetto> ScottK: neah, I don't think you will like my version, huats one might be better
 * Hobbsee force feeds ScottK automatix.
<Hobbsee> (3)
<huats> norsetto: :)
<huats> sorry guys for the change of nick :)
<huats> and it was TartePoireauxCrabe
<huats> :)
<norsetto> huats!!!
<huats> norsetto !!!
 * ScottK gets ill and spews
<bddebian> Heya gang
<slangasek> lool: er, no, I have no idea of anything wrt virtualbox-ose-modules in intrepid
<lool> slangasek: Ok, ogra hinted me at you
<lool> slangasek: Nevermind then; thanks
<ogra> lool, i thought i saw a conversation about vbox last week, apparently wrongly, sorry
<slangasek> sure, I had a conversation with blueyed about vbox in hardy-proposed...
<ogra> yeah, thats what i meant
<ogra> lool was asking why he didnt do a -19 instead
<lool> I'll go and fix vbox in intrepid then
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<slangasek> well, neither -17 nor -19 is present in intrepid currently
<ogra> indeed
<slangasek> so I don't know what the upload in intrepid is about at all
<ogra> enabling lpia
<ogra> we cant use vbox for lpia at 800x480 bwithout the vbox video driver which is in the guest modules
<laga> what's so special about lpia? is it different from i386?
<ogra> yes
<lool> ogra: blueyed uploaded a new version to intrepid to move from -16 to -17
<lool> But -17 never made it to intrepid AFAIK
<ogra> lool, right and currently we have -19
<lool> I noticed while adding lpia that it simply wouldn't build ATM
<lool> ogra: That's hardy; intrepid still has -16 I think
<ogra> you need to add lpia to the configure script
<ogra> its not an accepted arch without that hack
<ogra> which is all my patch does, changing control everywhere from s/i386/i386 lpia/ and adding lpia to the x86 list of arches
<lool> ogra: I'm interested in that last part
<lool> I also updated control and rules
<lool> I'm looking at configure ATM, I also had a look at the modules/virtualbox-ose Makefile, but I didn't get where the arches came from
<lool> (yet :)
<ogra> lool, line 254
<ogra> must be: i[3456789]86|x86|i86pc|lpia)
<ogra> trivial :)
<ogra> the first part of that regex is pretty optimistic *grin*
<lool> ogra: Well I checked this part and connected to my lpia Q1 and uname -m would return i686
<ogra> dpkg hands over lpia i think
<ogra> during build
<lool> ogra: BUILD_CPU=`uname -m` 2 lines above?
<ogra> not sure which source you are using there
<ogra> mine as
<ogra> has
<ogra>  BUILD_CPU=`dpkg --print-architecture`
<lool> ogra: aha
<leonel> I had my pbuilder on a gutsy install   that gutsy got upgraded to  hardy ..  the  pbuilder install ... was  moved to hardy  or is still for  gutsy ???
<ogra> (not added by me)
<lool> ogra: I'm looking at 1.5.6-dfsg-6ubuntu1
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> same here
<ogra> from april 9
<lool> ogra: Oh, yours is probably patched
<lool> ogra: Got it now
<lool> lala
<lool> ogra: IMO it should be using dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_GNU_CPU instead of dpkg --architecture, what do you think?
<ogra> sounds good
<bluefoxicy> what the hell ass balls
<bluefoxicy> if X gets killed you cannot log in again until you reboot
<laga> #define killed
<bluefoxicy> rm -rf /tmp doesn't fix it, neither does killall $(ps -e u | grep id -un | awk '{print $2}')
<bluefoxicy> laga:  ctrl+alt+backspace, which happens fairly often by accident through confusion
<bluefoxicy> i.e. switching virtual desktops, deciding to backspace over a character
<bluefoxicy> I tried killing all the user's processes and removing all temporary files owned by the user to no end
<laga> doesnt happen here
<bluefoxicy> laga:  ctrl+alt+bs doesn't kill X there?
<laga> it does, but i can still login afterwards
<bluefoxicy> doesn't let me in, I get a blank desktop with a white box in the top left with nothing in it
<bluefoxicy> also virtualbox seems to be unsupported <_<
<bluefoxicy> its modules are in main for an old kernel, universe for a newer kernel, and not present for current o_o
<bluefoxicy> oh, I'm on proposed, ok
<bluefoxicy> the updated kernel (2.6.24-18, hardy-updates) still has a matching universe virtualbox driver though, instead of main
<bluefoxicy> though, the 2.6.24-17 driver says it's in main but maintained by Ubuntu MOTU
<mouz> persia: about bug 198292. The version queued for the development release is patched in Debian for the same bug. So my reasoning is: it need not be patched for Ubuntu (for this bug). Am I right? Does that mean posting a debdiff for 1ubuntu0.1 suffices, or is there still a need for 2ubuntu1 then?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 198292 in motion "Hardy upgrade - motion halts upgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198292
<jdstrand> kees: so I was looking at getting mutt to help me with bug triage, and came acroos 'pipe-message'-- have you used it much with macros?
<kees> jdstrand: to some extent, yeah.  I think the USN builder, for example, uses it.
<jdstrand> kees: actually it does not
<kees> oh?
<jdstrand> kees: I was using it as an example, and then came across something that would be better
<kees> ah, you're right, i use "editor" to do the evilness
<jdstrand> kees: with usn builder, you use a trick with the set editor
<jdstrand> kees: check this out:
<jdstrand> macro index \cB "<pipe-message>~/ubuntu/security/scripts/lp-status<enter>"
<kees> cool, yeah
<jdstrand> kees: that macro pipes the message (or tagged messages) to that command
<kees> I have some really old stuff:
<kees> macro index \cu "<enter-command>unset wait_key\n<pipe-message>urlview\n<enter-command>set wait_key\n"
<jdstrand> kees: yeah
<kees> I think bdmurray has a ton of these kinds of things for doing his triage-via-email stuff
<jdstrand> kees: what is nice is that I have a script called 'bug-status.py', so I then wrote lp-status to be http://paste.ubuntu.com/18838/
<jdstrand> kees: this then outputs various stuff in mutt that I can use to start processing things
<jdstrand> kees: anyhoo-- I knew you liked 'stupid mutt tricks' so thought I'd pass it along
<kees> nice, yeah, thanks :)
<vbabiy-laptop> Hey guys are we going to to have the RC2 of firefox on Hardy or you guys waiting for the final?
<ScottK> vbabiy-laptop: #ubuntu-mozillateam would be a more likely place to get an answer to that question.
<vbabiy-laptop> thanks ScottK
<jdstrand> kees: do you have a script for approving 'nominate for release' bugs?
 * jdstrand likes to glom onto kees' scripts
<nhandler> Is it really necessary to add the "patch" tag to a bug that you patch? Or is it sufficient to just check the box that says, "This attachment is a patch"?
<jpds> nhandler: I think the patch tag is just to make searching easier.
<nhandler> jpds, Does that mean that it isn't a requirement. If that is the case, someone should update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing.
<jpds> nhandler: I think you may wish to tag it, yeah
<nhandler> jpds, Ok, thanks.
<leleobhz> what parameters i need to use in lintian to know a package is compilant?
<leleobhz> and how can i open a itp bug?
<ScottK> leleobhz: File a regular bug in Launchpad against Ubuntu and then tag it 'needs-packaging'.
<geser> leleobhz: simply run lintian once on the source package and once on the generated debs, or simplified on the _<arch>.changes file from the build to check both
<leleobhz> geser: some special parameters
<leleobhz> ScottK: and can i send my package to repositories?
<leleobhz> ScottK: or must to use REVO?
<leleobhz> geser: only lintian .changes?
<leleobhz> no parameters?
<ScottK> !REVU | leleobhz
<ubottu> leleobhz: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ScottK> That's where you send it.
<geser> leleobhz: I use normally no paramters, sometimes -i to get a more verbose output on warnings and errors
<leleobhz> E: uniconvertor_1.1.2-1_i386.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file hardy
<leleobhz> someone know how can i solve this?
<leleobhz> ScottK: ill file the but
<leleobhz> bug
<geser> leleobhz: for Ubuntu the version should end in -0ubuntu1 if the package (or that version) doesn't exist in Debian
<leleobhz> ScottK: need i redirect the bug for someone?
<geser> but I don't know if lintian knows about the Ubuntu versioning scheme and will stop complaining after you fixed the version
<ScottK> leleobhz: No.
<ScottK> geser: It does.
<RainCT> geser: I think lintian recognizes the -Xubuntu1 as Ubuntu distribution, but  I might be wrong though
<leleobhz> can i send a package to revu to be fixed?
<leleobhz> well
<leleobhz> dont recognized
<RainCT> leleobhz: yes, just re-upload
<leleobhz> RainCT: well, i think now i must to send the package because i cant think what more is wrong
<leleobhz> can i fix it latter and send to review?
<leleobhz> (and what i need to do to put it on oficial repositories?)
<neurobuntu> has anybody here used svn-buildpackage?
<kees> jdstrand: don't have nominate script, no.  that might be kinda handy.
<leleobhz> well, my first almost-correct package uploaded!!!!
<neurobuntu> does anybody know of any nightly build utilities?
<leleobhz> ive uploaded a package that exists into revu, but in a old version
<leleobhz> what can i do
<emgent> heya
<mouz> If I fixed a bug for Hardy, but upstream fixes the same for Intrepid, no ubuntu patch is needed for Intrepid anymore, right?
<devfil> mouz: right
<devfil> Someone can review galaxium package on REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=galaxium
<geser> devfil: is it a mono app?
<devfil> geser: yes
<geser> devfil: are you aware of http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/
<geser> ?
<devfil> geser: ehm no, what I should do with cli policy?
<devfil> geser: put it in copyright?
<LaserJock> siretart: ping
<geser> devfil: not in copyright, but read and apply it to debian/rules
<geser> devfil: I'm not familiar with that sub-policy but I know that there is dh_clideps to automagically discover the dependencies on -cil packages
<geser> devfil: it might help you to package a mono application correctly
<leleobhz> while compiling a package with cdbs and python, should i use 2.4 or 2.5 version?
<devfil> geser: thanks for the link
<geser> leleobhz: what kind of python package? python app? python lib? python module?
<leleobhz> app
<leleobhz> geser: because pdebuilder try to compile the package with python2.4 but even with python-support and python2.4-dev  gcc dies saying have no Python.h
<geser> leleobhz: the default python version (which is currently 2.5)
<leleobhz> hmm
<geser> leleobhz: gcc? so it's not pure python?
<leleobhz> geser: i think it isnt
<leleobhz> geser: if i use dpkg-buildpackage everything goes ok
<leleobhz> but using pdebuilder i got this problem
<geser> leleobhz: then you're probably missing a build-dependency
<geser> how does your build-depends look like?
<leleobhz> well, its Python.h]
<leleobhz> Build-Depends: cdbs, debhelper (>= 5), python2.4-dev, python-support, perl
<leleobhz> (perl for pod2man)
<geser> leleobhz: if possible try to build it once for python2.4 and once for python2.5 (i.e. all supported python-versions)
<geser> but if you have to choose one: python2.5 as this is the default
<leleobhz> geser: can i use both?
<geser> in the first case (2.4 and 2.5) build depend on python-all-dev, in the second (2.5 only) on python2.5-dev
<geser> leleobhz: yes, python modules use it to build for python2.4 and python2.5
<leleobhz> geser: another. im packaging a package yet archived on revu..
<leleobhz> geser: but ive found this after upload
<chaos386> hi there, is this the right place to report a package dependency issue?
<leleobhz> (but im using cdbs and the original normal build)
<leleobhz> geser: so, what i need to do?
<geser> leleobhz: find someone who is more familiar with cdbs than me :)
<leleobhz> geser: my doubt is about the duplicity
<geser> chaos386: bugs should be filed in Launchpad
<chaos386> even if the fix is already known?
<geser> leleobhz: if it only works for one version, then it's IMHO ok to build for only one version (e.g. it doesn't use different dirs for the compiled parts)
<norsetto> devfil: package doesn't build for intrepid (probably not a fault of the package), tarball from get-orig-source and your tarball are different
<geser> chaos386: mention the fix also in the bug
<chaos386> geser: ok, thanks
<devfil> norsetto: I used get-orig-source to do the tarball
<norsetto> devfil: well, try again because they do not match
<emgent> hi norsetto :)
<norsetto> emgent: 0/
<leleobhz> geser: well, my package ill be moderated right?
<leleobhz> i need do more than send the source?
<norsetto> devfil: most probably is just the compression level
<devfil> norsetto: there are other problems in the package?
<norsetto> devfil: probably, I still haven't got past the build stage though ;-)
<norsetto> devfil: which tar did you use?
<devfil> norsetto: czf
<norsetto> devfil: I mean version
<devfil> norsetto: version of tar or the svn revision?
<norsetto> devfil: tar version
<devfil> norsetto: 1.19-3
<norsetto> devfil: ok, this could explain it then, I used a different version
<norsetto> devfil: what are the dll included with the tarball?
<devfil> norsetto: agsXMPP, Mono.Nat and ProxySocket
<norsetto> devfil: yes, what are they?
<devfil> norsetto: I am not understanding
<geser> leleobhz: you mean upload to REVU?
<norsetto> devfil: are they needed for the package to work? where are the sources?
<leleobhz> geser: yeap
<geser> leleobhz: there is no moderation
<devfil> norsetto: they are in dlls dir and yes, they are needed to work
<ScottK> leonel: Debdiffs look good so far.  Why did you number the Dapper on dapper3 instead of dapper2ubuntu1 in line with what you did for the others?
<leleobhz> geser: but i need do more than this?
<geser> have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU ?
<norsetto> devfil: and the sources? If you give no sources you can't use GPL as you did
<ajmitch> hello
<geser> good night *
<devfil> norsetto: sources aren't in the package but there are some licenses about dlls
<norsetto> devdil: also for this: docs/Extension paths.pdf
<norsetto> devfil: then the package could go to multiverse but we need to check the licenses and they have to be added to copyright
<devfil> norsetto: ok, I'm going to add the licenze in copyright file
<leleobhz> geser: yep... its a little of unsure
<norsetto> devfil: and this: build/libmimic.so
<devfil> norsetto: -.-' I'm going to kill me :P
<geser> when your key is in the keyring on REVU then your upload should get automatically accepted and appear a few minutes later on the overview page
<norsetto> devfil: also please check what is all the stuff under build, I don't think you install any of these themes tarballs?
<norsetto> devfil: for so little? :-)
<devfil> norsetto: for you is a litte think, for me is a big problem
<devfil> norsetto: themes are installed
<leleobhz> geser: ok
<norsetto> devfil: ok, perhaps it is worth making a separate package if they are relatively big
<devfil> norsetto: they aren't big
<devfil> norsetto: the package will be bigger only 1.9MB
<leleobhz> E: uniconvertor_1.1.2-0ubuntu2_source.changes: checksum-mismatch-in-changes-file md5 uniconvertor_1.1.2-0ubuntu2.dsc
<leleobhz> how can i fix it?
<norsetto> devfil: well, they add to 1 MB, this is big in my book
<devfil> norsetto: but I will need to change sources, themes are installed by sources
<norsetto> devfil: no, just use proper install files and add another -themes package in control
<norsetto> devfil: what is in these themes, is it just one theme or several?
<devfil> norsetto: is one theme
<devfil> extra
<norsetto> devfil: ok, then it makes sense to package it separately
<devfil> norsetto: "just use proper install files"... how?
<norsetto> devfil: check man dh_install (and you need to add dh_install to the install target)
<devfil> norsetto: ahhh ok, dh_install to don't install in the main package and to install in themes package, sure
<norsetto> devfil: I mean, binary-arch target
<norsetto> devfil: since you do that also move the icon installation from rules (using cp) to install (using install file)
<norsetto> devfil: and pls. add a desktop file
<devfil> norsetto: already exists...
<norsetto> devfil: from upstream?
<devfil> norsetto: yes, desktop file and .png icon
 * norsetto checks it
<devfil> norsetto: it looks like good
<norsetto> devfil: Application;Network;InstantMessaging misses a ; at the end
<devfil> norsetto: I will add a patch
<norsetto> devfil: I think also application is not a good category
<norsetto> devfil: and please re-edit the Comment so that its gnome HID compliant
<devfil> norsetto: GNOME;Network; ?
<leleobhz> E: uniconvertor_1.1.2-0ubuntu3_i386.changes: checksum-mismatch-in-changes-file md5 uniconvertor_1.1.2-0ubuntu3.dsc
<leleobhz> someone know why its doing this?
<devfil> norsetto: the comment?
<devfil> I'm going to sleep
<devfil> bye
<leonel> ScottK: the  dch -i did the  numbering   and all I've seen finish with  ubuntuX ...
<leonel> ScottK: working on Hardy
<ScottK> leonel: Great.
<ScottK> leonel: I think 2ubuntu1 is more correct for dapper
<leonel> should I redo the debdiff ?
<norsetto> night all
<cody-somerville> ScottK, Do you want to peer-review an SRU I just reviewed?
<laga> jono: re severed fifth: it might be a good thing if you put a nice and short explanation of what your project actually _is_ somewhere accessible. your post to the planet doesn't explain it, the main page of the severed fifth website doesn't explain it either and i don't know if everyone really wants to read that very, very long news entry on the web site.
<laga> jono: disclaimer: i've got a headache and i'm cranky, so i might have missed something :)
<Nightrose> +1's that
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-10
<kirkland> can someone point me to the appropriate wiki page describing how to promote a package from universe to main?
<ajmitch> kirkland: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<kirkland> ajmitch: awesome, thanks.  i was looking under MOTU/* ....
<leleobhz> someone can help-me to solve this: E: uniconvertor_1.1.2-0ubuntu3_i386.changes: checksum-mismatch-in-changes-file md5 uniconvertor_1.1.2-0ubuntu3.dsc
<persia> mouz: If the fix is done upstream, it's good to try to make sure it's in intrepid and close the intrepid task as "Fix Released" to encourage approval of your SRU candidate.
<kirkland> kees: hey, i'm starting the MainInclusionReport for ecryptfs-utils
<kirkland> kees: it only has one dependency not already in main...  libpkcs11-helper1 (source: pkcs11-helper)
<kees> all build-deps will need an MIR too
<kirkland> kees: does that mean 2 separate MIR's?  one for ecryptfs-utils and one for  pkcs11-helper?
<kirkland> kees: ah, okay
<kees> I think so, yeah.  and check all of pkcs11-helper's deps too
<kirkland> kees: i guess the other obvious alternative is to try and remove the dependencies
<persia> kirkland: Please try to include them instead.  We've enough packages that get bug reports about things being disabled in an attempt to fit them in an MIR.  On the other hand, if it doesn't turn off functionality...
<kirkland> persia: interesting, is that a general consensus among MOTU?
<persia> kirkland: I'm not sure, although I think it ought be :)
<ajmitch> kirkland: people often expect features to be enabled if possible, I don't think it's a consensus, but something that comes through from bugs
<persia> There's a bit of balance involved: anything getting MIR restricts upload access from MOTU, so all MIR are annoying to some degree.
<persia> On the other hand, turning features off to wedge something into main annoys users, and MOTU often review the bug reports.
<kirkland> thanks
<ajmitch> it probably won't be too hard to get MIR approval for both packages
<danielm> hi all
<danielm> why lintian warnings:  native-package-with-dash-version
<danielm> i can't use '-'? :|
<persia> danielm: Typically that means you forgot to include the orig.tar.gz in the parent directory.
<danielm> oh! that is!
<danielm> thanks :)
<ScottK> kirkland: In some cases I've split packages into two source packages to get something into Main without losing functionality (see amavisd-new and amavisd-new-milter for an example)
<kirkland> ScottK: good pointer, thanks
<nxvl> kirkland: but we need to split them?
<nxvl> or at least, we can?
<kirkland> nxvl: i'd think we should save that as an alternative
<kirkland> nxvl: let's first try to get all 3 included
<kirkland> nxvl: if we run into problems, we can try ScottK's suggestion
<ScottK> JFTR, it was an observation, not a recommendation.  I have no idea what you are actually trying to do right now.  It should be kind of a last resort.
<kirkland> ScottK: understood, agreed
<nxvl> ScottK: yes, thanks, i was just making sure we can split it
<slangasek> right, amavisd-new-milter is a case where splitting is the only real option for main inclusion, since "milter" implies duplication of MTAs in main :)
<slangasek> whereas kirkland's packages don't appear to be duplicating functionality
<persia> slangasek: Is duplication-in-main bad?  Should those cases where it is present result in demotion requests?
<slangasek> persia: it's a consideration for main promotion, since it increases the security support burden; and where MTAs are concerned, I don't see anyone wanting to support both postfix and sendmail... :)
<lifeless> slangasek: exim4!
<slangasek> maybe the proposed archive reorg will make this less of a consideration
<StevenK> slangasek: I've been told by pitti that sendmail has zero chance of hitting mail.
<persia> slangasek: In the specific case of MTAs, I suspect I agree (then again, I believe all sendmail competitors were written by people who didn't understand sendmail.cf)
<StevenK> Sigh, main
<slangasek> Zugschlus: oh hai, I didn't see you hiding there behind lifeless's nick
<StevenK> Haha
<lifeless> slangasek: ><
<slangasek> :-)
<StevenK> lifeless: You asked for that. :-P
<slangasek> hmm, exim4 is /already/ in main?  how curious :)
<persia> In that case, the existence of amavisd-new-milter is even more confusing.
<lifeless> StevenK: given exim4 is in main, I don't think I did. Also it is good.
<slangasek> persia: augh slippery slope
 * persia anxiously awaits archive-reorg AKA nothing-in-main
<slangasek> :)
<StevenK> I don't really want to enter into an MTA flamewar, but I don't like exim.
<lifeless> StevenK: fair enough. Each to their own I say, as long as its not qmail or sendmail.
<StevenK> lifeless: We can at least agree on that. :-)
<StevenK> I used to like exim. $OLD_WORK beat that out of me.
<persia> The problem with MTAs is that none is perfect, so working for a while with any both makes the MTA one works with bad, and all the others confusing.
<ScottK> persia: I'm pretty certain Weiste Venema understands Sendmail.cf.  Of course he's probably also the only developer of a Sendmail competitor to get a Sendmail developers' award.
<StevenK> Ha. I like that.
<StevenK> I'm also amused that Postfix supports milters.
<ScottK> That's what he got the award for.
<ScottK> A kind sole who knows a little about init scripts might want to have a look at Bug #238744 and see if they can figure out how to help the reporter out.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238744 in havp "package havp 0.86-1 failed to install/upgrade: El paquete est? en un estado muy malo e inconsistente - debe reinstalarlo" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/238744
<persia> ScottK: Right.  Does he like sendmail.cf?
<ScottK> persia: No.  That's part of why he wrote Postfix.
<persia> ScottK: It seems to be the common excuse for not using sendmail.
<ScottK> excuse/reason, yes.
 * persia puts the "Sendmail is the best MTA ever" placard back in the back of the closet, to again accumulate dust
<emgent> hello
<LucidFox> Are all KDE4 dependent builds broken now, or am I just missing something?
<LucidFox>   kdelibs5-dev: Depends: kdelibs5 (= 4:4.0.80-0ubuntu5) but it is not going to be installed
<persia> LucidFox: There was an issue with half-in-main at one point: you might ask in #kubuntu-devel to see if it has been sorted (unless someone else answers here)
<LucidFox> thanks
<ScottK> It's not totally sorted
<ScottK> Progress has been made.
<RAOF> Omega[1];
<RAOF> Ahem.  #ubuntu-motu != maple
<ScottK> persia: You get pitti to agree to MIR Sendmail and then we can unsplit the package.
<ScottK> I could see some utility in splitting libmilter out into it's own source and getting that in Main so we can have supported milters for Postfix, but beyond that, I don't think so.
<persia> ScottK: I may be insane, but I'm not quite that masochistic.
<ScottK> Thus the existence of a separate amavisd-new-milter source package in Universe.
<ajmitch> sendmail in main? I think there'd be a few tears over that one
<StevenK> A few?
<pwnguin> do i need to manually file a sync request at this point or does launchpad or whatever Debian sync stuff keep track of changes in unstable?
<RAOF> It's autosync at this point.
<pwnguin> so if i saw a new upload in debian today via rss its in some build queue already?
<persia> pwnguin: Mind you, you will need to file a sync if there was previously variation in Ubuntu, and such variation is no longer required.
<persia> The autosync script is run manually, generally two or three times a week.
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> moins
<pwnguin> persia: i dont follow. if there was ever an -ubuntuX version autosync wont work?
<pwnguin> or just in the "looks like a merge" case?
<pwnguin> probably the latter.
<persia> pwnguin: autosync won't automatically overwrite: it becomes a merge candidate.  Once the package is back in sync, all history of *ubuntuX is lost (changelog is in sync), so there was never an *ubuntuX version.
<pwnguin> ok
<pwnguin> makes sense
<pwnguin> the former would be stupid ;)
<pwnguin> at any rate, the package I'm after should take care of itself then
<persia> Yeah, although I remember one case where Debian sync'd from Ubuntu (including changelog), and it became a merge candidate.  I think that's fixed now.
<pwnguin> im sure thats happened
<persia> Less often then you'd think.  Most of the Ubuntu people who are also Debian people are good about the changelog, and most Debian maintainers are careful enough with their package to keep the changelog clean.
<pwnguin> im just saying it's probably happened once, given the number of new package requests motu sees
<persia> I think most of the occurrences were around the introduction of the Ubuntu patch to packages.qa.debian.org
<pwnguin> huh
<persia> Well, the ftp-masters are good at catching that.  We've had a lot of packages in Ubuntu and then in Debian, but usually they are changelog-clean by the time they arrive.
<pwnguin> ah. hurray for oversight
<pwnguin> <-- not a DD
<persia> That's one of the reasons that those who want long-term credit for packaging something new are encouraged to get it into Debian, so their entry in debian/copyright doesn't get overridden.
<pwnguin> wa?
<persia> OK.  So Alice packages libfoo for Ubuntu, and puts "This package was debianised by Alice" in debian/copyright.
<pwnguin> sure
<persia> Later Bob packages libfoo for Debian, and puts "This package was debianised by Bob" in debian/copyright.
<persia> After this, Chris reviews the merge candidate, and requests a sync.
<pwnguin> and then a dd fulfills a ITP without looking?
<pwnguin> yea
<persia> So Dana, an archive admin, does the sync, and overwrites Alice's credit.
<pwnguin> so basically, duplication of effort, not spurious deletions of debian/copyright filse
<pwnguin> files
<persia> pwnguin: Well, it's more common when someone puts something into REVU, and doesn't file an ITP (or at least an RFP with a pointer at the Ubuntu package).
<persia> pwnguin: Right.  Overwriting debian/copyright due to duplication of effort.
<persia> Debian always wins.  Ubuntu follows that policy in large part because it encourages collaboration.
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> im reminded of a paper i read yesterday
<pwnguin> if you want to "win" an stop sign intersection, dont make eye contact with the driver coming from the right
<pwnguin> "in fact, he argues the strongest move one can make is to throw the steering wheel out the door!"
 * persia suspects that advice doesn't work here, where left-on-red is generally considered OK
<StevenK> Only if he is a worse "Chicken" player than you are.
<StevenK> Left turn on red here is okay if the intersection is signed for it
<pwnguin> left on red?
<pwnguin> you're nuts
<pwnguin> or drive backwards
<StevenK> We drive on the left hand side here
<persia> pwnguin: No, we drive normally.  Two to one.
<persia> (disclaimer: I no longer drive)
<pwnguin> seriously
<StevenK> Left is right. :-P
<pwnguin> why am i the only guy who stays up late?
<pwnguin> anyways, debian never had a steering wheel
<pwnguin> also, the allegory is a 4 way stop with two drivers going straight
<persia> Right.  Just keep going.  If the other driver also follows this rule, accellerate
<pwnguin> basically, by pretending to ignore the other guy, he as to assume you dont see him and so on to "win"
<pwnguin> persia: you seem like a natural at this ;)
<persia> see previous point about me and driving.
<StevenK> Note to self: Never drive with persia
<persia> StevenK: Driving with me these days is safe: I generally hire a professional.
<StevenK> If you calling a taxi driver a professional, I suggest you inspect the taxi drivers in Sydney and New York
<pwnguin> hah
<persia> pwnguin: The fault in the analogy is that Debian doesn't turn a blind eye (and never really has to Ubuntu, as opposed to the many other derivatives).  Allowing Debian overwrite is Ubuntu driven, to the frustration of some people in Debian who would prefer Ubuntu overwrite for new packages.
<pwnguin> never get in a car with a driver behind the wheel who came to america thinking "what's the worst that could happen"
<persia> StevenK: In Sydney, I was unhappy, and generally tried to restrict travel to beween 4:00 and 7:00am, and look to a known safe driver in the evenings.  In New York, I take trains (although some of the limousine companies are acceptable)
<persia> pwnguin: From that comment, I will take a stab at the nationstate in which you reside, and reference the intersection of Summer Street and Cutter Avenue in Somerville Massachusetts as proof that it's a rare place that completely prohibits left on red.
<pwnguin> i recognise the word massachusetts
<pwnguin> but ive never been there
<pwnguin> america is bigger than new york, after all ;)
<tarzeau> when i try to import my pgp key it says: The key CC798E5CAF5268D858C506C27C8DFA5B0999548B has already been imported.
<tarzeau> on launchpad.net
<tarzeau> but i don't have the passwords of the other 3 accounts anymore
<tarzeau> and launchpad.net can't send it to me either
<tarzeau> what can i do about this?
<persia> tarzeau: How did this happen?
<tarzeau> persia: i don't have gurkan@linuks.mine.nu anymore
<persia> Did you change your email address, and lost touch with the old ones?
<tarzeau> persia: and i want to take the bugs/package assignments from that email address too, how to?
<siretart> hi tarzeau
<tarzeau> hey siretart
<persia> OK.  Explain your situation to answers.launchpad.net/launchpad.
<siretart> tarzeau: did you revoke your old userid on your key? and did you upload that key to 'keyring.ubuntu.com'?
<persia> someone will likely ask for some proof of identiy, and help you.
<tarzeau> siretart: no, would it then work?
<tarzeau> siretart: i'm still speculating to get the name again and reactivate it
<tarzeau> siretart: besides once revoked, i can't unrevoke it anymore so i want to keep it like this
<siretart> tarzeau: well, if you lost access to that mail account, I'd consider it natural to express this in your public key
<tarzeau> persia: what kind of proof of identity?
<siretart> tarzeau: by signing that userid you are testifying having control over that email adress. which you don't.
<persia> tarzeau: I don't know.  I've never done it myself.  I have heard of others who were able to sort out lost LP access.
<persia> Also, you do want to update your GPG key to reflect your current email.  Anything else is incorrect.
<tarzeau> persia: it is up to date
<tarzeau> siretart: i just don't want to revoke an email address that i might use again
<persia> tarzeau: Including the revocations for the addresses you no longer control?
<tarzeau> persia: i will be in control again, it's just temporary
<tarzeau> persia: would removing the ids work?
<tarzeau> and then adding them again later?
<persia> You can't remove.  You can only revoke.  I wouldn't revoke if you expect to add again later, unless there's a big gap of time in the middle.
<tarzeau> persia: ok, that's what i do. but can i use the key on launchpad meanwhile?
<persia> tarzeau: For that, try asking in #launchpad.
<tarzeau> persia: i'm asking on the url you gave me
<tarzeau> #35788 ...
<siretart> tarzeau: think if you paste a clearsigned request to have your primary account address changed to some other adress you actually can read, that should do it
<siretart> tarzeau: paste in a support ticket, that is
<tarzeau> i can't merge the accounts either since the primaryily registered email doesn't work temporarily
<tarzeau> siretart: the ticked i made is not a support ticket?
<siretart> you change your primary account later again
<siretart> tarzeau: ah, yes it is
<siretart> still I think you want to have the primary contact adress changed by some admin. which ticket #35788 doesn't say
<siretart> or forcemerge the other accounts
<tarzeau> how?
<tarzeau> siretart: i'll add that to the ticket
<tarzeau> siretart: thanks, added
<wgrant> Perhaps include a request to merge all of your accounts with your current one, signed with the OpenPGP key associated with those other accounts?
<wgrant> That's probably the easiest way to do it.
<tarzeau> wgrant: let me try that as well
<freeflying> hi motu's, after the motu ship expired, the upload right also expired?
<wgrant> freeflying: They are one and the same.
<persia> freeflying: Yes, they are linked.
<tarzeau> added
<freeflying> persia: haha, I'd keep on re-applying those, like motu, official loco team :)
<wgrant> tarzeau: It might have been better to give it an inline sig, but that works too.
<Riddell> DktrKranz: ping
<DktrKranz> Riddell: hi
<Riddell> DktrKranz: oh, I see, never mind
<Riddell> was looking at your rpy upload
<DktrKranz> troubles?
<Riddell> no, just my eyesight :)
<DktrKranz> heh :)
<DktrKranz> thanks for approving
<Riddell> DktrKranz: poke me in a week to have them moved to -updates
<DktrKranz> Riddell: sure. I'll do some verifications to see if everything is ok, just for being sure.
<Riddell> DktrKranz: you should add the verification-needed tag
<Riddell> and a TEST CASE: comment
<Riddell> also motu-sru should have been subscribed
 * persia notes that DktrKranz is motu-sru
 * DktrKranz should have added test case before :/
<persia> And likely subscribed the rest of the team so it showed on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/sru/
<DktrKranz> I though I have subscribed motu-sru, probably it was a different bug
<Riddell> siretart: ping
<siretart> Riddell: I am not available. please leave a message after the beep. *BEEP*
<Riddell> openal-soft is LGPL but the debian/copyright file says GPL
<siretart> indeed, I need to fix this in debian as well, then.
<Riddell> siretart: I'll reject then, poke me when you upload a fix
<siretart> is this a reject reason? I thought it was possible to relicense lgpl code as gpl, since gpl is stricter than lgpl, isn't it?
<Riddell> I can accept
<Riddell> if you don't want to fix it
<Riddell> seems untidy though
<Riddell> or if you want to fix later
<siretart> I will fix it in any case. I need to do additional uploads to start the openal transition anyways
<siretart> so accepting it will allow us to start the transition earlier
<Riddell> ok, I'll accept
<siretart> thanks!
<norsetto> Hola
<Riddell> ciao norsetto
<norsetto> Riddell: ciao there :-)
<Riddell> siretart: what's the relationship between openal and openal-soft?
<Riddell> siretart: and presumably libopenal1 should go to main?
<siretart> Riddell: executive summary: openal is deprecated and we want to replace it with openal-soft. do you want more details?
<Riddell> that's fine
<siretart> so yes, as long as we don't want to demote dependencies along with openal, it needs to go to main
<siretart> however I don't really feel that comfortable having openal in main. I mean, code wise. for openal-soft, I don't have enough experience with it to make that assesment. But my experience with openal is very mixed
<Riddell> I'm not sure what's keeping it in main
<Riddell> hmm, rss-glx is
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<simplechat> heyyas
<simplechat> how would i find the package before the current released package?
<simplechat> there was a new version of fglrx which breaks horribly when actually in use
<simplechat> is there an easy way to downgrade?
<directhex> simplechat, launchpad.net usually contains things.
<simplechat> directhex, as do most sets
<simplechat> can i have a more specific direction?
<simplechat> and will there be a correction?
<simplechat> like, can i expect fglrx to unbreak on the next update?
<simplechat> or will it just sit there for a couple of weeks?
<directhex> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24/+publishinghistory
<directhex> and if there's a bug, file a bug
<directhex> on a given version, click the version number, then "builds" on the left, click an architecture, "resulting binaries" on the left
<directhex> packages!
<simplechat> source packages?
<directhex> those too, if you want
<simplechat> no, as in, where are the .debs? i've found .targz's and diffs
<simplechat> but not .debs
<directhex> so... did you follow the instructions above?
<directhex> the bit relating to "then "builds" on the left, click an architecture, "resulting binaries" on the left" for example
 * dholbach hugs nixternal
<simplechat> ...
<simplechat> was the latest version the version that came out late last month from ati?
<simplechat> directhex, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/xorg-driver-fglrx/1:7.1.0-8-3+2.6.24.11-12.31 that is what i need?
<directhex> well, that and the kernel module to match
<simplechat> kernel module?
<simplechat> which one?
<simplechat> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/fglrx-kernel-source/1:8-3+2.6.24.11-12.31 ?
<saivann> If a MOTU have some time to review and accept a obvious patch for intrepid and hardy-proposed : bug 232402
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 232402 in chmsee "chmsee does not build in Hardy" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/232402
<askand> Hello, I need some hep writing a maininclusionreport :) The package is libiptcdata and the reason I want it to be in main is to fix bug 213367 . The first thing I wonder is what "Any source code review performed ?" means?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 213367 in gthumb "build gthumb with IPTC data support" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213367
<Riddell> hmm, Daniel Hahler disappeared?
<StevenK> askand: What that means is, "have you read through the source code, and looked to see if it is written in a security-conscience matter?"
<white> StevenK: who cares about security? :)
<white> as long as the app is fancy, it is alright ;)
 * StevenK kicks white in his insecurity
<white> hehe
<askand> wow im not sure I am capable of seeing ï»¿if it is "written in a security-conscience matter" really
<StevenK> So the answer is no :-)
<askand> Ah ok :) hm "Does it directly (not through a library) process binary (video, audio, etc) or structured (PDF, etc) data ?" Since hte package is a library I guess that would be a no-answer on that too?
<StevenK> I'm guessing since it adds metadata to a picture, it would be a yes
<askand> Then I go with your guess
<askand> How do I know if a package follows FHS and Debian Policy?
<StevenK> You check both documents
<persia> askand: You read both documents, and compare them against the package.
<ogra> an duse lintian
<ogra> *and use
<ogra> it usually catches the worst parts
<persia> Yes.  Lintian can help tell you if the answer is "No".  Being sure the answer is "Yes" requires more digging.
<ogra> indeed, but its a good tool for measurement :)
<persia> Yes :)
<sebner> dholbach: I'll fight linkchecker but no in the next 2 weeks. I just dont have the time for it (final exams ..)
<sebner> *not
<dholbach> sebner: OK, np
<gaspa> persia: i made a 'friendly' list of packages that depend on nbs (not totally, but working)
<gaspa> ï»¿DktrKranz tells me  you could be interested :)
<gaspa> the list is here: http://iogaspa.altervista.org/nbs/reversenbs.xml
<gaspa> persia: if you have comments, are appreciated. :)
<neurobuntu> test
<geser> failed
<neurobuntu> dang, I was hoping it would pass
<norsetto> saivann: your chances will be greater if you set the bug status to confirmed and assign it to nobody. For the sru, try also to provide the information required here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<saivann> norsetto : Thanks
<norsetto> saivann: np, note as well that the version for -proposed should be something like 1.0.0-1ubuntu1.1 not 1.0.0-1ubuntu2
<saivann> norsetto : Oh thanks, I'll fix this too!
 * sistpoty|work heads home now... cya
<bluefoxicy> damnit
<bluefoxicy> audacity crashes, just like it did when stupid backports sent it to 7.10
<Falken> Hi everyone
<Falken> I just uploaded my very first package on REVU. It doesn't show up on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com .. what am I doing wrong ?
<ScottK> Falken: How long ago did you upload it?
<Falken> ScottK: about one hour ago
<Falken> there is already a package with the same name which was uploaded 2 months ago by another person
<Falken> but I don't know how it's supposed to work. Mine is up to date, should I do something to overwrite the old one ?
<ScottK> It should just work.
<ScottK> If someone else was working on the package already, have you checked with them to see if they are still interested?
<Falken> yep, it's the upstream guy. we talked about it on launchpad
<Falken> I followed the doc on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<Falken> and dput told me it was successfully uploaded ...
<Falken> this is my dput conf concerning revu :
<Falken> fqdn = revu.tauware.de , incoming = /incoming , login = anonymous
<Falken> and that's it
<Falken> maybe I should ask the old package to be nuked
<ScottK> It shouldn't be needed.
<emgent> heya people
<neurobuntu> persia: rare? almost all intersections in Somerville and Cambridge are no turn on red
<neurobuntu> oops ignore that
<DktrKranz> broonie, thanks for scons :)
<Falken> do you know if there is something like a refresh rate on REVU ? my package still doesn't show up. dput tells me it has already been uploaded when I try again
<ScottK> You needs a REVU admin to look for you.
<ScottK> RainCT: ^^^?
<broonie> DktrKranz: np. It occurs to me that you might want to consider applying to become a DM.
<Falken> thanks ScottK ;)
<DktrKranz> broonie, still early, I need to have a DD to sign my GPG key and find advocates :)
<broonie> I'll advocate you for SCons.
<DktrKranz> cool :)
<slangasek> "anything just so I never have to touch scons again"? :-)
<DktrKranz> heh, I'll leave risk to you :)
<broonie> slangasek: I didn't say that.
<slangasek> broonie: sorry, I must be projecting. :)
<broonie> slangasek: All I'm saying is that I didn't say it. :)
<Cliph> Having a problem with a one of my meta dpkgs, is this a good place to get some help?
<Cliph> I have output and pastebins ready
<norsetto> !ask | Cliph
<ubottu> Cliph: Please don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-)
<Cliph> Hi, I'm building a meta-dpkg and it has a bunch of dependencies that are also available in my repository, when I try installing <my-meta-package> I get a message about some of my dependencies stating "Depends: <other dependency> but it is not going to be installed"  Here is a pastebin of the output and my control file: http://pastebin.com/d1efb6512 And here is a pastebin of apt-cache policy <my-meta-package>: http://pastebin.com/d7e10ae2b
<RainCT> Falken: Do you still have a problem with REVU? (I was away).
<Cliph> If this isn't the best place to get help with this issue please direct me to the right one. Thanks!
<geser> Cliph: what happens when you try to install one the mentioned packages, e.g. jazinga-gui ?
<Cliph> oh, I see
<Cliph> gui depends on jami, depends on some other packages and so on up the tree
<Cliph> lets see what I can do ...
<Cliph> I see I see, the dependencies cascade and there's an unmet package deep down the dependency tree
<Cliph> that was it, that helped me, thank you geser, there were dependency problems deeper down, now I know what that error message too. Thanks again for you help.
<RainCT> Falken: your upload was rejected, probably because you aren't in the revu-contributors group or you joined it recently and you are not yet in the keyring (I can update it if you can confirm this)
<RainCT> Falken: by the way, remove the "<nnnn is the bug number of your ITP>" from the changelog
<i4x> ppl, I need to know if it's possible to build a package that run's a script while installing!!
<i4x> I know a few things on how to build a package!.. but don't know how to build it to execute a script while installing!!
<ScottK> There is preinst and postint.
<mrjb> hi folks!
<jussi01> Hi mrjb
<mrjb> i was sent here from
<jussi01> :)
<mrjb> never mind ;)
<jussi01> Lads and Ladies, mrjb is looking fo help packaging his program
<mrjb> thanks for the intro :)
 * norsetto sighs
<mrjb> nors: tough day?
<mrjb> the story is, i've made a piece of software that i'd like to share
<i4x> ScottK: preinst and postint? if it is what I think... well, then I mean postint !! I want to run some things (like grant permissions) before installing files!!
<mrjb> http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/hd24tools/
<mrjb> i'd like to make it available on regular ubuntu/ubuntustudio repository
<mrjb> but i've never built a .deb before
<mrjb> i'm not at the point of asking for help doing the actual packaging yet, as first i'd like to try following this tutorial: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=51003
<brandon|work> mrjb, have you read the wiki on packaging?
<brandon|work> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<mrjb> for now I'll assume I can manage to package the software
<mrjb> (thanks for the link by the way)
<mrjb> after that, how would i go about having it included in the regular repositories?
<norsetto> !revu | mrjb
<ubottu> mrjb: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<Laney> There are a *lot* of packages on REVU atm :O!
<mrjb> ok, i'll read up on the matter
<mrjb> thanks!
<norsetto> sistpoty: do you think it is worth to sync atlas 3.6.0-21.5 ?
<sistpoty> norsetto: t.b.h I haven't looked at the changes yet. iirc my changes could be dropped as is, but I'm not too sure about the other changes (iirc from geser?)
<sistpoty> norsetto: also, I guess it would make sense to fix blas first (unless that's done already)
<sistpoty> bug 202869
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 202869 in blas "ICAMAX/IZAMAX tests" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202869
<norsetto> sistpoty: roger
<sistpoty> norsetto: feel free to take over the merge though ;)
 * norsetto feels free
<sebner> norsetto: free, free like a bird xD
<sebner> huhu sistpoty =)
<sistpoty> hi sebner
<norsetto> sebner: free like beer (whatever that means, I still haven't got that)
<sebner> norsetto: free like freebeer? ^^
<DktrKranz> "free kevin!"
<sebner> rofl
<norsetto> DktrKranz for president!
<DktrKranz> norsetto, better ask Nokia or AT&T guys before :)
<norsetto> nokia: ?
<norsetto> at&t: ?
<DktrKranz> rtfm :P
<DktrKranz> s/manual/book/
 * norsetto reads
<devfil_> norsetto: I've done the package that you've seen yesterday
<norsetto> devfil: good, thanks for all your hard work
<DktrKranz> norsetto, tomorrow is devfil's birthday and I guess he wants a gift... ;)
 * norsetto hands over a kubuntu cd to devfil
<devfil> norsetto: I use GNOME :P
<norsetto> devfil: yes, thats why ;-)
<sistpoty> leleobhz: you just replied to my mail regarding the binary upload of uniconverter to revu, right?
<leleobhz> sistpoty: right!
<leleobhz> sistpoty: a little mistake uploading binaries
<leleobhz> sistpoty: and after ive seen havea archived package.. (but ive used cdbs)
<sistpoty> leleobhz: thing is, that the .changes file (which you upload via e.g. dput) describes what files to put up there
<sistpoty> leleobhz: so if the .changes files points to a .deb, then it's a binary upload
<sistpoty> leleobhz: which revu however won't accept
<leleobhz> sistpoty: yep... ive uploaded the source after this
<leleobhz> sistpoty: its a mistake, as i said...
<sistpoty> leleobhz: ah, great. then no need to worry ;)
<leleobhz> a little problem with tab completion
<leleobhz> ;]
<sistpoty> heh
<nxvl> norsetto: ping
<leleobhz> sistpoty: but im worried about the duplicated package
<leleobhz> sistpoty: may my package be droped?
<norsetto> nxvl: SIGPONG
<sistpoty> leleobhz: if you upload s.th. twice, it will just create a new upload entry on the revu page
<leleobhz> sistpoty: but my package are very different from original
<nxvl> norsetto: i have just fixed A LOT of bashisms on bootcd, but i think they may break the bash compatibility
<nxvl> norsetto: is that a good idea to send the patch back to debian or not?
<norsetto> nvxl: err, isn't that the purpose?
<leleobhz> sistpoty: the original made with debian traditional way and mine ive used cdbs, and its a new version
<sistpoty> leleobhz: that's not really a problem imho
<slangasek> nxvl: breaking bash compatibility isn't a good idea, in Ubuntu or in Debian... :)
<leleobhz> sistpoty: but may my package inserted into official repositories?
<leleobhz> s/but/so/g
<nxvl> slangasek: so it's a good idea to send them the patch back?
<nxvl> norsetto: why is that the idea? in debian they use bash for building
<slangasek> nxvl: well, it's a better idea to first fix the patch so that it doesn't break bash compatibility...?
<sistpoty> leleobhz: hm.. that's a good question, as awen's comment stated that he'll try to get it into debian
<nxvl> i'm talking about Bug #238761
<slangasek> nxvl: but if you aren't comfortable doing this, then talking with the Debian maintainer about how to fix it is a good idea, yes
<sistpoty> leleobhz: personally, I'd prefer that if we have the chance to sync a package from debian, we should do that
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238761 in bootcd "bootcd 3.10 FTBFS due bashism" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/238761
<leleobhz> sistpoty: even if my version is newer
<leleobhz> ?
<sistpoty> leleobhz: however I have no clue if awen is still pursuing that goal or what the state is
<sistpoty> leleobhz: have you contacted awen yet? maybe you'd like to work together on the package?
<a|wen> sistpoty: what package are we talking about?
<leleobhz> sistpoty: so awen decides?
<nxvl> the problem, most of them, are the \n's
<leleobhz> a|wen: uniconvertor
<sistpoty> a|wen: uniconverter
<nxvl> since it first run a script which in dash it will interprete the \n but in bash don't
<a|wen> leleobhz: what's with the package?
<nxvl> so for dash i needed to add some more \'s
<nxvl> to end with the same result
<leleobhz> a|wen: ive created it again because ive dont seen you package before
<leleobhz> i forgot to look at archived package
<leleobhz> s
<leleobhz> so, the version 1.1.2 are uploaded as a new package]
<a|wen> leleobhz: ahh ... it's in debian now; and i got it included in intrepid (was to late for hardy at the time)
<leleobhz> a|wen: so it ill get syncronized with debian and my package droped?
<slangasek> nxvl: erm, dash parses \ inside of single quotes?
<slangasek> that seems... unfortunate
<a|wen> leleobhz: where is your package atm.? ... link?
<leleobhz> a|wen: ive sent it to revu
<slangasek> also, this seems vaguely familiar, like an LTSP bug I saw towards the end of the hardy cycle
<nxvl> slangasek: inside double quotes
<slangasek> nxvl: many of the changes in your patch are to instances where it's in single quotse
<leleobhz> but if you want i can put into ppa or my private repository
<a|wen> leleobhz: ahh ... the package is already in ubuntu (and i've got inkscape patched to work with it), so it should be good
<nxvl> so inside single quotes also
<nxvl> i do a lot of tests
<a|wen> leleobhz: but if you have some improvements, they are always welcome!
<nxvl> and i ended just comparing the outputs in bash and in dash
<leleobhz> a|wen: well, only a clean package
<leleobhz> a|wen: ive used cdbs
<leleobhz> and you manpage ;]
<slangasek> nxvl: er, oh; I take that back, it just *looks* like it's in single-quotes, but it's really an insane variable containing a multiline command
<slangasek> well
<nxvl> yep
<leleobhz> a|wen: ill keep the package here, if you think its a good idea use cdbs or another thing...
<nxvl> a lot of insane commands
<leleobhz> well
<slangasek> no, it's "$( ... 'foo' )"
<leleobhz> how can i see what applications arent packaged yet?
<leleobhz> have some wishlist?
<slangasek> which means that it should be treated as a string literal inside the quotes, ohwell
<a|wen> leleobhz: you hopefully use python-support right?
<leleobhz> a|wen: sure! ;]
<nxvl> slangasek: belive me, it's a nightmare
<leleobhz> a|wen: ive eated the cdbs documentation before
<nxvl> slangasek: i'm fighting with this thing since yesterday
<a|wen> leleobhz: good :) ... if you give me a link for it, i can look at improving the packaging when the new upstrem release is here
<leleobhz> a|wen: i ill upload it to my ppa, its ok?
<a|wen> leleobhz: a .dsc link from mentors is fine
<leleobhz> a|wen: ive only sent it to revu
<sistpoty> a|wen: interesting. lp shows a source package page for uniconvertor, but it doesn't show any releases yet (and it also is not in the new queue for intrepid)...
<leleobhz> a|wen: if helps
<a|wen> leleobhz: then a .dsc link from revu :)
<sistpoty> ah. it's python-uniconvertor
<a|wen> sistpoty: yes :)
<leleobhz> a|wen: how can i see it?
<a|wen> leleobhz: found it ... thanks :)
<leleobhz> a|wen: oh, nice
<leleobhz> a|wen: its the ubuntu3?
<a|wen> leleobhz: i'll just wait a bit for it then
<leleobhz> a|wen: sending....
<a|wen> leleobhz: might be a good idea to put a comment on revu, that it is already in ubuntu as python-uniconvertor
<leleobhz> a|wen: how can i do this?
<leleobhz> a|wen: done, source sent
<a|wen> leleobhz: login at the front page let's you add comments
<leleobhz> how can i do my first login?
<sistpoty> leleobhz: use your email from the upload as login, don't enter a password. then you get a link to recover your password
<leleobhz> sistpoty: yes yes, but show-me only a screen telling me to run a gpg command
<leleobhz> and notting on my email
<a|wen> leleobhz: if you fancy packaging python modules, there is actually a debian python group ... it's a great way to collaborate about python packages; and they are quick at sponsoring ... and you can get the packages sync'ed from debian to ubuntu afterwards
<sistpoty> leleobhz: yes, so run that gpg command, and it will decrypt your password, given that you have the private key ;)
<leleobhz> sistpoty: but have notting into
<leleobhz> see
<leleobhz> http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/5756/revuzo2.png
 * sistpoty looks
<a|wen> leleobhz: so if you ever feel for some python packaging you could drop by #debian-python
<leleobhz> a|wen: i only want to package ;]
<leleobhz> a|wen: this channel are into freenode?
<sistpoty> leleobhz: oh, your elg-e key has expired. hence revu cannot encrypt with it
<leleobhz> sistpoty: ?
<a|wen> leleobhz: sorry on irc.debian.org
<leleobhz> sistpoty: what i need to do?
<sistpoty> leleobhz: iirc you can (re)set the expiry date of the elg-e subkey, or create a new one. but don't ask me how, I haven't done this in a very long time (maybe anyone with better gpg knowledge around=
<leleobhz> sistpoty: and how can i resend it to revu?
<sistpoty> leleobhz: you'll need to send it to a public keyserver and then revu's keyring needs to be resynced to pick it up
<a|wen> leleobhz: got your package now; thanks again ... i'll keep a look at your packaging when a new upstream version arrives
<leleobhz> a|wen: nice!
<leleobhz> a|wen: last, have some wishlist for packaging?
<a|wen> leleobhz: not atm ... but you might be able to find some RFP (request for packaging) in either launchpad or the debian BTS
<leleobhz> a|wen: but i can be helpfull in debian without being a DD?
<a|wen> leleobhz: they have debian mentors (much like revu) ... and then you request sponsorship on a mailinglist
<nxvl> slangasek: the first one is inside double quotes, which are inside single quotes, whichare inside single quotes
<a|wen> leleobhz: the good thing is that this way both ubuntu and debian will benefit for it
<nxvl> slangasek: the first one is inside double quotes, which are inside single quotes, whichare inside double quotes*
<a|wen> leleobhz: i'll go find a few links for you
<leleobhz> a|wen: nice!
<a|wen> leleobhz: RFP: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/requested ... packages that needs adoption (the former maintainer isn't there anymore) http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/orphaned
<a|wen> leleobhz: the mentors site http://mentors.debian.net/ ... there are some good links there
<a|wen> leleobhz: and you can also drop by #debian-mentors on irc.debian.org
<leleobhz> a|wen: nice
<leleobhz> a|wen: im fighting with my gpg keys (i dont know how i can manipulate sub-keys)
<a|wen> leleobhz: and then keep an eye on the packages in ubuntu :) ... if they don't have any ubuntu specific changes they will be synced; else some manual work is needed ... or an import if it is not in ubuntu yet
<a|wen> leleobhz: gpg is not my strong side ... hope you figure it out
<leleobhz> :]
<leleobhz> a|wen: ill contact you later, after solve the key problem
<a|wen> leleobhz: i'll probably pop off shortly (my timezone call this late evening) ... but feel free to ping me when i'm back
<leleobhz> :]
<leleobhz> sistpoty: ping
<leleobhz> a|wen: thanks
<sistpoty> leleobhz: pong
<leleobhz> sistpoty: i need elgamal key?
<leleobhz> because i cant change it expiration data (or i dont know how to do this properly)
<sistpoty> leleobhz: yes, otherwise revu cannot encrypt your password (nor anyone else can send you e.g. an encrypted mail)
<leleobhz> sistpoty: so how can i change expiration data?
<leleobhz> because it appears on my keyring but gpg --edit-key dont do anything
<sistpoty> leleobhz: let me take a look
<Laney> Can someone help me with these errors when building a package: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/19153/
<leleobhz> heh
<a|wen> leleobhz: you need to do "gpg --edit-key [key-id]" ... this should get you in an edit prompt; use "help" to get a list of options
<sistpoty> leleobhz: ah, found it. what a|wen wrote. then use key 1 (or key 2) to toggle between primary key and subkey
<sistpoty> (or whatever the index of your elg-e key is
<sistpoty> +)
<sistpoty> leleobhz: then you can change the expiry date with expire
<sistpoty> selecting a subkey however is imho very unintuitive *g*
<sebner> gn87 folks
<sistpoty> gn8 sebner
<leleobhz> sistpoty: err
<sistpoty> leleobhz: yes?
<leleobhz> ah, ok
<sistpoty> heh
<leleobhz> sistpoty: sent the new key
<a|wen> g'night people
<sistpoty> gn8 a|wen
<leleobhz> gn8
<leleobhz> sistpoty: so, how much time i need to wait the key reload?
<sistpoty> leleobhz: where did you send it to? as at least the elg-e key on the ubuntu keyserver is still expired
<leleobhz> sistpoty: now
<leleobhz> on last 5 minutes
<leleobhz> sistpoty: and my old elg-e key is expired since 2007 :[
<sistpoty> leleobhz: yes. but to which keyserver did you send the changed key? (did gpg's output say s.th. about this?)?
<leleobhz> yep
<leleobhz> wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net
<sistpoty> ah. then it's clear why I can't find the new key :)
<Laney> ScottK: Do you mind if I merge spambayes?
<Laney> Also, does anyone know what /!\ means on DaD?
<leleobhz> sistpoty: send to some another server?
<sistpoty> leleobhz: hm... even there it still says that your elg-e key expired in 2007
<ScottK> Laney: Go ahead.
<Laney> Thanks
<ScottK> Laney: It means that the diff is empty (so it's a bogus merge)
<sistpoty> leleobhz: can you look again with gpg --edit-key <yourkeyid> at the "sub  2048g/317905E4" line?
<ScottK> Laney: It means you have to do it manually or grab the merge from MoM.
<Laney> ScottK: Ah, right. I don't use the grab-merge scripts anyway
<leleobhz> sistpoty: sub* 2048g/317905E4  created: 2006-11-10  expires: never       usage: E
<sistpoty> leleobhz: hm... maybe that keyserver first needs to think about it *g*
<leleobhz> sistpoty: so, where i send my key?
<sistpoty> leleobhz: you could try to use keyserver.ubuntu.com
<leleobhz> sistpoty: sent
<sistpoty> leleobhz: ah, there it is... excellent.
<leleobhz> :]
 * sistpoty refreshes key for revu... may take some time
<leleobhz> ;]
<leleobhz> sistpoty: stupid ask... handbrake package on revu has been rejected because it has been created using binary direct instead using source
<leleobhz> ive started a packaging using source
<leleobhz> sistpoty: so is the same way of uniconverter? send and make a comment?
<sistpoty> leleobhz: yes, you'll need to build the package from source... however I haven't looked at uniconvertor yet, so I can't say s.th. about it atm.
<sistpoty> (and I should also be in bad since quite some time right now *g*)
<leleobhz> sistpoty: almost same case
<leleobhz> sistpoty: but the original package has been rejected
<sistpoty> leleobhz: oh, keys are up to date now
<leleobhz> sistpoty: can i ask you a thing in pvt?
<sistpoty> sure
<Laney> ScottK: Looking at the new Debian version, I think it's a step back from the changes that we currently have in Ubuntu. Is it acceptable to leave a merge for now, possibly also reporting the changes back to the maintainer?
<directhex> it's encouraged!
<directhex> well, the "changes back to the maintainer" bit is
<Laney> Aye
<Laney> But I don't want to be like "I don't like the way you've done it, take our stuff instead"
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-11
<leleobhz> can i change the password of revu?
<sistpoty> no
<leleobhz> hmmm
<leleobhz> when i make my packages i must to use current or unstable version (this case, hardy+1)
<sistpoty> yes, or build and test them in a chroot
<leleobhz> sistpoty: ok, but i must use stable (hardy) or hardy+1 on this case
<ScottK> Laney: If you can offer a good technical rationale, it should be fine.
<wgrant> leleobhz: You must build the package in an Intrepid environment.
<sistpoty> leleobhz: well, you'll need to build the packages for intrepid (e.g. in an intrepid pbuilder, or in a clean intrepid chroot)
<wgrant> Whether chroot or real.
<leleobhz> ok
<leleobhz> i have a great cross compile script suite
<leleobhz> i use to make backports too
<leleobhz> so 0ubuntu3 for hardy turns 0ubuntu4 for intrepid?
<jml> sistpoty: hello. are you still around?
<sistpoty> jml: for a few minutes, yes
<leleobhz> Distribution is intrepid.
<leleobhz> Building the build environment
<leleobhz> hoho, nice ;]
<leleobhz> sistpoty: what i do with package version?
<sistpoty> leleobhz: if the package is not yet in ubuntu, start with <upstream-version>-0ubuntu1.
<jml> sistpoty: I'm on the Launchpad codehosting team. We've finally got around to looking at your branch
<leleobhz> sistpoty: its on revu
<leleobhz> sistpoty: on revu has for hardy
<sistpoty> leleobhz: then there's no need to increase the version number, as long as it's not yet in the archive
<sistpoty> jml: excellent, thanks!
<jml> sistpoty: can you confirm that it works?
<leleobhz> sistpoty: so return to 0ubuntu1?
<leleobhz> and put target to intrepid?
<sistpoty> jml: I've seen that RainCT has committed again, so I assume it works :)
<jml> sistpoty: ok. cool.
<sistpoty> leleobhz: yes
<leleobhz> ok
<sistpoty> jml: thank you very much for fixing it :)
<ajmitch> morning jml :)
<jml> ajmitch: hi
<jml> sistpoty: no problems. sorry for breaking it in the first place :)
<sistpoty> heh
<ajmitch> have you been doing naughty things to code again?
<jml> ajmitch: no, I've been fixing up the naughty things I did before.
<ajmitch> that's a good thing
<jml> ajmitch: I'm full of goodness :D
<jml> well, coffee.
<jml> but they are roughly the same thing anyway.
<lifeless> :P
 * sistpoty goes to bed now... gn8 everyone
<Laney> Was a merge necessary for this? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14380019/gpsk31_0.4.1-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<Laney> AIUI it would have gotten rebuilt anyway
<persia> Laney: No.  That ought to have been a sync request.  The previously introduced Ubuntu variation ought have been assigned with the build1 nomenclature, but we weren't as well organised with variation nomenclature back in feisty.
<persia> Laney: From which bug was that derived?
<Laney> persia: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gpsk31/+bug/228499
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 228499 in gpsk31 "Please merge gpsk31 0.4.1-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released]
 * persia grumbles about the spurious, useless, and actively inhibiting presence of "edge" in the URL.
<persia> Bah.  It's already been released.
<Laney> Sorry!
<Laney> Yeah, I only saw it as there's a new Debian version. I'll request a sync for that one
<persia> Sponsors: please verify that a merge is worthwhile before sponsoring.
<persia> Laney: That works.  Thanks.
<persia> (Assuming build success, etc.)
 * Laney nods
<ScottK> If someone wants reporting changes to Debian practice, have a look at amavisd-new.  It has some stuff that should be reported (that I haven't got to) and some that shouldn't.
<ScottK> I'll be glad to review it and provide advice.
 * mneptok hands ScottK a tall, cool glass of vitriol
<ScottK> What happend now?
<mneptok> i read mailing lists.
<mneptok> i need to stop doing that/
<ScottK> Bah.  Old news.
<ScottK> Besides which, that was me with the CoC tempering my words.
<ajmitch> mneptok: so your employer is part of the Axis of Evil now?
<lifeless> part of?
<persia> Axis?  Doesn't the shape change when there are more than two poles?
<ajmitch> just referring to his post on planet ubuntu
<persia> It could be improved by the use of: Â£
<ajmitch> persia: well, it's a term that goes back a few decades at least :)
<persia> ajmitch: True.
<mneptok> ajmitch: wait until you see the 200ft reenforced concrete statue of sabdfl
<mneptok> "Juche. An ancient African word meaning 'It's all for sale, baby.'"
<ajmitch> where will the statue be built?
<mneptok> on the grave of the GPL. or maybe New Jersey.
<lifeless> the grave of new jersey is a bit big
<lifeless> though perhaps it could be a small headstone for that grave
<ScottK> It was a fun thread.
<mneptok> ScottK: your definition of "fun" disturbs me
<wgrant> mneptok: But Micronical is evil!
<wgrant> (!!11!11!eÂ°!11!)
<ajmitch> spoken like a true shill
<ScottK> No, no, no.  In that thread we clearly established the nixternal is the shill.
<ajmitch> oh right, for his slight sympathy of opensuse
<nixternal> Microshill I think was the word
<wgrant> Microvell shill.
<nixternal> openSUSE rocks, I don't care what anyone saysw
<ajmitch> and not for his unrequited love of vista
<nixternal> ya, that was it
<wgrant> Hence Micronical.
<ScottK> nixternal: Only if you enjoy being an unpaid beta tester for sles.
<nixternal> just like we all are with Ubuntu :P
<ScottK> Having this shiny new opensuse 10.1 desktop that looked and worked great except it could never be updated was enough for me.
<ajmitch> tester? no, you're an unpaid developer's slave
<ScottK> 10.1 was my first and last opensuse release.
 * wgrant has never used S\.?[uU]\.?S\.?E
<wgrant> Though I do admit to using Mandrake at one stage.
<wgrant> What's so good about openSUSE?
<mneptok> wgrant: how much did "they" pay you to say that?
<mneptok> wgrant: the tiny community means quick bug triaging?
<mneptok> "OMG! we got a user bug report!"
<wgrant> Heh.
<ajmitch> wgrant: sigh, I used mandrake back many years ago as well
<nixternal> openSUSE 11 is the hotness
<nixternal> so is Fedora 9
<nixternal> but I have to finish laundry and get my non-unemployed ass to bed :P
<nixternal> err, actually I need to look at ScottK's spec and see how it can make me money :)
<ajmitch> you dare to try & make money off free software? think of your principles, man!
<wgrant> The version of Mandrake I used had this ridiculous Mandrake logo embossed into the lower right-hand corner of every console (both in X, and on ttyX). I couldn't work out how to remove the darn thing.
<ScottK> He's the shill.  Remember.
<ajmitch> right
<nixternal> just because I worked for Microsoft doesn't make me a shill :P
<ScottK> No.  Being a shill makes you a shill.  ;-)
<nixternal> true
 * mneptok wonders how nixternal will enjoy the next release of openSuSE, which will use GNOME exclusively
<mneptok> muahahahahaha
<ajmitch> I almost felt sorry for nixternal there
<nixternal> hehe
<StevenK> Hah
<nixternal> mneptok: there is still the KDE button for openSUSE
<nixternal> plus they still have the KDE CDs
<ajmitch> nixternal: the 'Install Kubuntu' button?
<nixternal> that's all I need anyways :P
 * ScottK is just glad Debian decided to stick with KDE 3.5.9 for Lenny.  That makes fore a good plan B.
<ScottK> My Kubuntu motto for our next release is, "Intrepid Ibex in the jungle of KDE4.  Sometimes you eat the tiger, sometimes the tiger eats you.  Which will it be?  Find out.  Upgrade today."
<ajmitch> So we'll have random snapshots from SVN on release day?
<ScottK> Probably not svn snapshots, but I expect we'll be patching up to the last minute.
<mneptok> ScottK: may i suggest "Your desktop has changed. It's our desktop now. No files or folders kthxbai."
<ScottK> Not scary enough to encourage people to use it.
<nixternal> no files or folders?
<nixternal> I have both on my KDE 4 desktop
<ajmitch> It's the way of the future
<nixternal> I actually have files and folders from Documents, Graphics, and Dev on my KDE 4 desktop
<mneptok> nixternal: can you drag a file into a folder?
<nixternal> with trunk I can
<mneptok> ah, the ability to move files and folders has just landed in KDE, eh? >:)
<ajmitch> It's not stupid, it's advanced
<mneptok> an argument that would work well in a world where Jerry Lewis won a Nobel prize.
<lifeless> does KDE have a desktop again?
<lifeless> last I heard it had a very pretty area that users couldn't touch
<ajmitch> mneptok: you don't recall the glorious days of invader zim?
 * mneptok is a Gir-head
<marnold> excuse me could i have a quick review of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=php-gnupg
<ScottK> Are you sure you really want to package that?
<ScottK> Personally I don't think I'm going to be sticking my GPG keys behind a php script.
<marnold> only a fool sticks his private keys on the web
<marnold> is more for building keyrings and such
<marnold> like if you wanted to LaunchPad in PHP
<marnold> but i suppose if you had a role key it wouldn't be to bad
<persia> As long as nobody trusts the role key overmuch.
 * persia wants a "Count indicated trust by this key as negative" trust metric
<marnold> but how does it look
<marnold> its been awhile since i did a Ubuntu upload
<marnold> :)
<nixternal> mneptok: Gir-head? Is that like Gearhead done Nelly style?
<nixternal> you from st. louis or sumpin' ;p
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hiya ajmitch
<stgraber> Anyone here who can spend some minutes looking at : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=emu8051 ? I'm helping him packaging this software (but I'm not a MOTU myself, only (kind of) maintaining italc in main)
<Iulian> Heya
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<sistpoty|work> hm... should I tag bug 220910 with verification-done?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 220910 in tk-brief "tk-brief has broken dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220910
<huats> norsetto !!!
<norsetto> huats !V
<norsetto> huats: ops, sorry, Mr. The President
<huats> ;)
 * norsetto wonders if all is well with huatskozy
<huats> don't worry... it is not a big deal for this time to have forgotten  that ;)
<huats> norsetto: LOL
<huats> norsetto: btw you should introduce me an italian model to become my wife :)
<huats> (not sure everybody will agree with that ;))
<norsetto> huats: sorry, I'm short of them at the moment
<huats> pfff I am really disapointed
<norsetto> huats: and with you ever leave your gf I will never talk to you again (she is too lovely)
<huats> norsetto: :)
<huats> norsetto: don't worry i don't envisage to do so... she just have to become a model and italian... and it'll be OK :)
<norsetto> huats: well, she could on both fronts, so, consider it so :-)
<huats> ;)
<huats> LOl
<huats> I'll tell her :)
<norsetto> huats: hmmmm, I don't know if being Italian could be a compliment, hope she takes it positively ;-)
<huats> ;)
<huats> I am sure she will
 * norsetto -> lunch
 * norsetto <- lunch
<gaspa> norsetto: -> coffe?
<norsetto> gaspa: good idea, a deca for me thx
<gaspa> norsetto: ok, but arriving at you, it'll become cold...
<norsetto> gaspa: thermos?
<gaspa> fine. ;) i'm calling "bartolini" to send it to you.
<theseinfeld> If there is a package that is imported from Debian and I have better integration to Ubuntu, whom should I assign the bug?
<theseinfeld> anybody can point me to someone?
<norsetto> gaspa: thx!
<gaspa> i'm sure it'll arrive with the case broken... ;)
<norsetto> theseinfeld: say it again?
<theseinfeld> well, I have been working in Revu on a package that was meanwhile imported from Debian. I filled the bug and uploaded my diffs to that, the question is, to whom should I assign that bug? Who is responsible of that archive uploads to take a look at the diff?
<norsetto> theseinfeld: was that a new package?
<theseinfeld> it is in intrepid
<theseinfeld> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdc1394-22/2.0.2-1
<theseinfeld> bug 238492
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238492 in libdc1394-22 "Changes to allow better integration in Ubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/238492
<theseinfeld> I was working on Revu since February to get it done, while I gave up convincing debian people that it has some issues
<ScottK> Don't assign it to anyone.
<ScottK> theseinfeld: Subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<theseinfeld> the bug? or join chan?
<theseinfeld> :D
<ScottK> The bug
<theseinfeld> thanks ScottK
<theseinfeld> I will hate to see all the work and time wasted
<gaspa> theseinfeld: file a bug in debian too... your work could be also useful for them.
<broonie> theseinfeld: The debian situation with firewire is kind of a mess due to the kernel team deciding to drop the old stack.
<theseinfeld> broonie, wooo, I like it. So, we all jump to juju :)
 * broonie notes that the Debian maintainer may be unenthusiastic about conversion to CDBS
 * theseinfeld knows that...
<theseinfeld> But that was the least...
<theseinfeld> have to go...
<theseinfeld> cheers
<lukehasnoname> Do the install DVDs support the server edition install, and does the DVD have all from the repos on it?
<slytherin> lukehasnoname: not universe and multiverse
<lukehasnoname> Is there some way to download the entire repo to a local drive, or clone it and make my own local repo?
<lukehasnoname> My test machine doesn't have internet and I want to try some stuff out
<Laney> lukehasnoname: apt-mirror
<Laney> lukehasnoname: http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2008/06/10/how-to-create-an-ubuntu-repository-mirror-on-ubuntu-804/
<Laney> lukehasnoname: also, \sh did one here http://www.sourcecode.de/content/ubuntu-mirror-what-if-i-need-it-easy
<\sh> Laney: that's about online mirroring...when you do have internet connection ;) but local lan...you need to mirror the stuff on the machine with i-net access and then provide this mirror to the machine without inet access, but eventually it has LAN access only
<Laney> Well obviously you need internet at some point
<lukehasnoname> right, that would do. I'd just need a night or two of internet on one machine
<lukehasnoname> I think that would do, anyway. Thanks laney
<lukehasnoname> esp. for showing me that site, period. Tutorials are always handy
<Laney> np
<Laney> You're lucky that these came up on the planet yesterday ;)
<lukehasnoname> Ya, I saw that the tutorial came up yesterday
<lukehasnoname> how convenient
<lukehasnoname> "I want to get online. I need a computer!"
* nixternal changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | 8.04 is released: Let's fix any SRU-worthy bugs before the users try the package. | Intrepid open, go wild! https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | TODAY - WEDNESDAY JUNE 11 IS REVU DAY!!! NOW GET TO REVU'ing!!!
<Laney> It is?
<norsetto> Laney: nix is REVU $deity, if he says it is, then it is ...
<norsetto> !nixternal
<ubottu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<Laney> norsetto: Yeah, I meant that it doesn't seem to have been advertised anywhere...!
<Hobbsee> oh noes.  revu day!
<norsetto> Laney: give him time to wake up ;-)
<Hobbsee> nixternal: ping for a chat?
<Laney> Anyway I'm happy - I've had stuff on REVU for a while now :D
<nixternal> Hobbsee: howdy
<Laney> norsetto: May I merge battleball?
<norsetto> Laney: pls. do
<Laney> Thanks :>
 * Laney will get pasta then do
<jpds> hmm, pasta
<james_w> sorry to ask for it, but would anyone be willing to upload the fix in bug 190450 to hardy-proposed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 190450 in ov51x-jpeg "Can't compile ov51x-jpeg on hardy" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190450
<norsetto> james_w: what about ov511? Is this bug applicable to that package?
<james_w> norsetto: well, a similar bug, yes, I don't have a fix for that one.
<norsetto> james_w: ok
<james_w> the two issues were mixed by the time that I came across it, they should be separate reports really.
<norsetto> james_w: perhaps its a good idea to mark the ov511 tasks as invalids then and open a new bug about that problem
<james_w> that's a good idea.
<leleobhz> ehlo guys ;]
<norsetto> james_w: was 466371 the debian bug where you found the patch?
<james_w> norsetto: nope, that's a different issue apparently.
<norsetto> james_w: yes, you have any reference?
<james_w> Debian already has the fix from upstream, so I'm not worried about hunting down a bug report there.
<james_w> you're after where I got it from upstream?
<norsetto> james_w: I would like to make sure that we quote the author, whoever that is, in the changelog
<james_w> ah, ok.
<james_w> Klinski Mirko  apparently
<james_w> http://www.rastageeks.org/ov51x-jpeg/index.php/Changelog
<norsetto> james_w: ok, can you add it to the changelog then pls?
<james_w> sure
<james_w> norsetto: done, thanks.
<luisbg> is there a way to see all the tree of dependencies a package has? like what you can see as dependencies in packages.ubuntu.com, but with also the dependencies of the dependencies
<ScottK> luisbg: Please ask on just one channel at a time.
<luisbg> ScottK, sorry, I wanted to ask here since its a packaging question
<luisbg> and then I noticed I asked in the wrong tab
<luisbg> my bad :(
<twruottu> It's REVU day?
<norsetto> twruottu: (hint) see channel topic
<ScottK> luisbg: Then it'd be polite to mention that on the other channel so people there don't waste their time.
<twruottu> norsetto: Oh. The name list flooded the topic out of screen
<norsetto> james_w: uploaded, thx for chasing this out
<norsetto> twruottu: Wed. June 11, 2008 - REVU Day!
<luisbg> ScottK, done :)
<james_w> norsetto: thanks!
<twruottu> I'm looking after second sponsor for my package mi2svg. I have uploaded the package to REVU and fixed all issues that have been brought up. See http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mi2svg
<james_w> luisbg: "apt-cache dotty" may be something like you want.
<norsetto> cyberix2: Standards-Version is 3.8.0 now :-(
<cyberix2> damn
<cyberix2> Then I have to get into my car and start driving home wards
<cyberix2> :-D
<luisbg> james_w, thanks :)
<norsetto> cyberix2: just check if you have to make any changes in /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.txt.gz
<cyberix2> As I keep my PGP key in my safe or some other secret secure place instead of a USB stick.
<james_w> luisbg: also "apt-cache --recurse depends"
<norsetto> cyberix2: take your time, I will be around for another 7 hrs or so
<cyberix2> norsetto: Can I find that document online somewhere?
<luisbg> james_w, awesome!
<norsetto> cyberix2: its in the debian-policy package which is in debian/ubuntu repos
<cyberix2> norsetto: K
<cyberix2> norsetto: Thanks
<norsetto> cyberix2: de nada, I'll check to see if there is some more and will let you have any comment anyhow
<norsetto> cyberix2: looking at the package I doubt you will have to make any changes though
<cyberix2> norsetto: Thanks a lot. I'll start driving. Please post any further observations to REVU so I can fix them all once I get home. I'll get back to you later.
<cyberix2> ok?
<norsetto> cyberix2: sure thing
<cyberix2> See you later, bye
<RainCT> slomo__: did you have a look at gbrainy?
 * sistpoty|work heads home
<sistpoty|work> cya
<mathiaz> Koon: shoot
<mathiaz> Koon: was the list I sent you usefull ?
<Koon> mathiaz: yes, very useful.
<Koon> mathiaz: the "updated" merges have to be worked on, too, I suppose, not only outstabding ones
<mathiaz> Koon: yes - although we try to focus first on the outstanding ones
<Koon> mathiaz: first question is about config.{sub,guess}.
<mathiaz> Koon: we try to merge each package at least *once* during each cycle
<Koon> mathiaz: on the libcgi merge, they conflict...
<Koon> mathiaz: should I try to merge them, take the Debian one... or just ignore them
<mathiaz> Koon: most of the time these files are regenerated during build time
<Koon> mathiaz: yes, that's why I ask ;)
<mathiaz> Koon: so you don't really care about it
<Koon> ok, I can let the automerge resolve the conflicts in them, but I don't talk about them in "Remaining chnages"
<mathiaz> Koon: the best ressource I've found about this is the autotools-dev package
<Koon> mathiaz: second question is about courier-authlib merge.
<mathiaz> Koon: /usr/share/doc/autotools-dev/
<Koon> if you look at the changelog, the "Remaining changes" are very simple.
<mathiaz> Koon: the README.Debian.gz outlines what the problems are
<Koon> but if you look at the base -> ubuntu patch, it's just enormous.
<Koon> 226 files, 4M diff
<mathiaz> Koon: which patch are you looking at ?
<Koon> courier-authlib_0.60.1-1ubuntu2.patch
<Koon> the base-> debian patch is so simple (and the merge process did produce a viable tarball) that I could just report the last changelog and be done with it... but that troubles me
<bddebian> Heya folks
<mathiaz> Koon: right - it seems that the ubuntu version has some .deps/ dependencies in it
<mathiaz> Koon: probably that the clean target doesn't work properly
<mathiaz> Koon: so the source package was build with things that were left from a previous binary build
<Koon> hmmkay.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<mathiaz> Koon: looking at the lsdiff, there are lots of files in .deps/
<Koon> but there are lots of things outside .deps too. Maybe the result of the same problem
<mathiaz> Koon: probably related - most of the file are files autogenerated by the autoconfigure tools
<mathiaz> Koon: Makefile, config.status, config.h, etc...
<Koon> mathiaz: Ok, I will look into it from that angle
<mathiaz> Koon: yeah - read up on the autotools-dev package so that you start to grasp the issue with it
<Koon> mathiaz: ok then, do you mind if I handle the icecast2 merge (will be a sync request, more than probably)
<mathiaz> Koon: then you can look into the patch, using filterdiff to remove the files that are not necessary
<mathiaz> Koon: np - go ahead please.
<mathiaz> Koon: did you go through all the list I sent you ?
<Koon> mathiaz: not all the list. I started a couple of hours ago.
<mathiaz> Koon: ok - so far did you find the merge difficult ?
<cyberix> norsetto: back
<mathiaz> Koon: I ask that because I've tried to pick merges that *seemed* easier than others.
<cyberix> norsetto: Is that shorter download url form a convention?
<Koon> mathiaz: no, they were quite simple cases
<cyberix> norsetto: How did you run lintian?
<cyberix> norsetto: I could not get that error
<norsetto> cyberix: did you run it on the binary?
<bddebian> Heya geser
<cyberix> norsetto: on the deb-file?
<cyberix> Also, is there some tool for just validating the man page?
<cyberix> directly
<norsetto> cyberix: yes, on the deb or better yet on the binary changes
<cyberix> I used it on the deb
<cyberix> But I have no idea what is wrong
<cyberix> I would need some(one) or tool to tell me more about the problem
<Laney> cyberix: lintian -i will give you more info
<mathiaz> Koon: was the documentation I've pointed you to useful ?
<Koon> mathiaz: yes. Note that the two wikipages are the same, in fact
<mathiaz> Koon: the content has been merged now ?
<mathiaz> Koon: I haven't looked at them precisely
<Koon> mathiaz: apparently. The MOTU one redirects to the other one.
<mathiaz> Koon: oh - that has been done recently then - good :)
<norsetto> cyberix: I think its the (c) character
<cyberix> I realize that
<cyberix> But there should be nothing wrong with it
<mathiaz> Koon: I'm planing to publish such lists of easy merges in order to get people started in merging.
<cyberix> "* New Homepage field for upstream web sites." I already used that field with some earlier packages. I hope I didn't break anything.
<mathiaz> Koon: that's why I wanted to have your feedback on the level of difficulty I've chosen
<norsetto> cyberix: well, using nroff your manpage shows this: Copyright ÃÂ© 2005
<cyberix> Interresting
<Koon> mathiaz: I guess packages where you merge from the same upstream version are the easiest
<cyberix> vim shows it correctly
<cyberix> So does cat
<mathiaz> Koon: well - I've opted to compare the changelog actually
<mathiaz> Koon: looking at the changelog in Ubuntu and Debian
<Koon> mathiaz: ok
<mathiaz> Koon: that gives a first idea at the work that may be required.
<mathiaz> Koon: I'll also add some metrics (such as diffstats and lsdiff)
<mathiaz> Koon: and the list of conflicts from the potential merge
<mterry> I want to add a simple patch to a package which doesn't use a patch system right now. I tried adding cdbs's simple-patchsys.mk, but when I try to run cdbs-edit-patch, I get: "target file `clean' has both : and :: entries.  Stop."  Is there a way to easily add simple-patch without overhauling the various targets already in debian/rules?  If not, how do I make the two clean's play nice?
<cyberix> man pages require you to specify encoding in some way?
<mathiaz> Koon: all these information should help giving a rough idea about the level of difficulty of a merge
<cyberix> I don't do that, because I could not find a way to do it.
<Koon> mathiaz: the doc from autotools-dev is really interesting. thanks for pointing that out
<james_w> mterry: if the package doesn't use cdbs then you won't be able to use cdbs-simple-patchsys, sorry.
<mathiaz> Koon: yeah - I've read the README.Debian a couple of times and still haven't grasped all the details in there.
<persia> mterry: You're better off using dpatch or quilt if you're not using all of CDBS.  Of the two, dpatch has better documentation (both externally and in patches), and quilt is more flexible about handling conflicts.
<persia> james_w: Well, it's possible to use only part of CDBS, but it makes kittens cry...
<mterry> persia: I'm not trying to solve kitten sadness syndrome here.  I just want a patch.  :)
<persia> mterry: OK.  Using part of CDBS will make you cry :)
<mterry> persia: Fair
<persia> Just use dpatch.  There's a nice dpatch.mk you can include, and you can use dpatch-edit-patch to edit the patch.  Just remember to add a patch comment to every dpatch.
 * mterry reads a dpatch howto
<cyberix> norsetto: Also man shows the text correctly
<cyberix> Also I can't get lintian to notice the error anymore
<cyberix> lintian did complain with the previous upstream version
<cyberix> norsetto: What options did you pass to lintian?
<norsetto> cyberix: just use (c) and we get rid of it
<cyberix> Thats what the japanese people do? :-D
<cyberix> This might be an error in lintian.
<cyberix> actually
<cyberix> I don't get that error
<cyberix> So there just might be nothing wrong
<norsetto> cyberix: I'm getting that character when I use man, so there is something definetively wrong
<cyberix> Interresting
<cyberix> so lintian works differently on different systems
<cyberix> Are you sure you don't have the old version of my package?
<cyberix> 0.1.5
<cyberix> should be correct
<norsetto> cyberix: I used your link, so unless you have given the old link ...
<cyberix> The software itself says 0.1.3, but that is just because the software has not changed since
<cyberix> Maybe I should change that, just for sake of clarity
<norsetto> cyberix: and thats the diff wrt the previous version: -Copyright 2005, 2006 Research Institute for the Languages of Finland +Copyright Â© 2005, 2006 Research Institute for the Languages of Finland
<cyberix> The copyright version in the old original was broken.
<cyberix> So I considered removing it just for the package.
<cyberix> But then I decided to fix it upstream
<norsetto> cyberix: yes, you should definetively change the version in the script
<cyberix> I'll do that, but first I want to get the man page thing sorted out.
<cyberix> Which locale do you use?
<norsetto> cyberix: en_US.UTF-8
<cyberix> so do I
<cyberix> norsetto: what does "file mi2svg.man" tell you?
<norsetto> cyberix: ASCII troff or preprocessor input text
<cyberix> mi2svg.man: UTF-8 Unicode troff or preprocessor input text
<norsetto> cyberix: I edited it to check with (c)
<cyberix> Well get the original one
<cyberix> And make sure lintian still complains about it
<Kopfgeldjaeger> should i install files within debian/rules or with an install file (mostly data files)?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> (mostly, but not only)
<lukehasnoname> http://xkcd.com/351/
<lukehasnoname> wrong tab sry
 * persia recommends Kopfgeldjaeger install data files with dh_install and debian/install before heading off for several hours
<Kopfgeldjaeger> thanks
<cyberix> norsetto: "man -d mi2svg.man" may tell us why your "man mi2svg" fails to display the character correctly.
<cyberix> norsetto: It seems that nroff is not supposed to display it correctly.
<emgent> heya
<CrippledCanary> Could someone have a look at bug #135033, bug #224241 and bug #221973 please...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 135033 in smstools "wrong ownership of /var/run/smstools" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135033
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224241 in smstools "smstools stop working after upgrade" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224241
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221973 in smstools "smstools folder under /var/run isn't recreated after reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221973
<CrippledCanary> It's SRU for hardy and a fix for #221973 in intrepid
<slomo__> RainCT: will look tomorrow
<lukehasnoname> anyone have connections to "main"tainers?
<lukehasnoname> er, does anyone here manage the main repo
<lukehasnoname> Yes, I know this is motu, just asking though
<geser> lukehasnoname: it's like MOTU but with more responsibilities
<lukehasnoname> where would I go to request a package update in main
<geser> lukehasnoname: what kind of update? new upstream release?
<lukehasnoname> ya
<geser> is it already in Debian unstable?
<lukehasnoname> libvirt 0.4.0 -> 0.4.2, and I'll check that, forgot to
<geser> !info libvirt0 intrepid
<ubottu> libvirt0 (source: libvirt): library for interfacing with different virtualization systems. In component main, is optional. Version 0.4.2-5ubuntu2 (intrepid), package size 234 kB, installed size 632 kB
<lukehasnoname> nice.
<geser> it's already updated for intrepid
<lukehasnoname> Will that get put into Hardy at some point, or do you have to enable backports?
<lukehasnoname> I'm still a newbie at packaging protocols
<lukehasnoname> esp. for LTS
<geser> it's unlikely that it will get into hardy(-updates)
<geser> I don't know if it might get into -backports
<geser> try asking soren about it, as he maintains libvirt
<geser> you can reach him either here or in #ubuntu-devel (where the core-devs hang out)
<sebner> slomo__: I'm not sure but after my final exams it wouldn't be bad if I decide my future. maybe something with C# programms (not mono itself I suppose ^^) and you are the geek there. any advice, may you would guide me a little bit?
<lukehasnoname> thanks geser
<norsetto> sebner: you mean, you will pass your exams!?
<sebner> norsetto: hmm?
<norsetto> sebner: need some private lessons?
<sebner> norsetto: well, we have topics to learn and we have written stuff to learn, furthermore it's too late maybe. BUT I'll remember your offer ;)
<norsetto> sebner: please do
<sebner> norsetto: thanks =), so eggdrop has to wait or I'll fail my exams xD
<norsetto> sebner: eggdrop? whats that?
<sebner> norsetto: xD
<sebner> !info eggdrop
<sebner> !info eggdrop intrepid
<ubottu> eggdrop (source: eggdrop): Advanced IRC Robot. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.6.18-1.1ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 464 kB, installed size 1144 kB
<ubottu> eggdrop (source: eggdrop): Advanced IRC Robot. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.6.18-1.1ubuntu1 (intrepid), package size 464 kB, installed size 1144 kB
<norsetto> oh, how nice, another ubottu
<sebner> norsetto: you know. with this ssl thing
<norsetto> oh, an ssl'ed ubottu
<norsetto> ubottu: keep quite or we will ssl you too
<ubottu> norsetto: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<sebner> norsetto: xD xD xD
<sebner> haha
<sebner> geser: now I'll file a sync bug for fakeroot-ng just for fun ;) kay?
<sebner> geser: bug #239284  \o/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239284 in fakeroot-ng "Please sync fakeroot-ng 0.11-1 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239284
<geser> sebner: sure
<geser> sebner: does it build in intrepid i386?
<sebner> geser: remember! Though I'm writing crap I testbuild *everything*
<geser> good
<sebner> ^^
<CrippledCanary> can someone please tell me how to get the package described in bug #120434 included?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 120434 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Ricoh R5U870 Webcam Driver" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120434
<CrippledCanary> Or the proper attention at least
<lukehasnoname> bug #1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<lukehasnoname> FIX IT
<sebner> gn87 folks
<kees> soren: uhmmm... I just noticed that sbuild isn't skipping package removal when shutting down my schroot snapshots...
<kees> that's no good
<soren> kees: Oh. That calls for rebenchmarking, doesn't it?
<kees> soren: hah, it calls for me filing a bug.
<soren> kees: Oh, I thought it was your won script that was failing to do it.
<kees> soren: oh, no, it's clearly a bug in the new schroot.  I was just unable to immediately discover the origin of the issue.  lots of loopy c++ and shell.  eek
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-12
<warp10> albert23: FYI, I have just requested the sync for enthought-traits. Please, go ahead with enthought-traits-ui at your will.
<albert23> warp10: ok, good to know. I will look at e-t-u tomorrow.
<warp10> albert23: great, thank you. :)
<ScottK> freeflying: Welcome back.
<freeflying> ScottK: thanks :)
<grantgm> i'm having some problems packaging a python package that has a compiled module...is this the right place to ask for help?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> But not from me, I'm heading out for a while.
<grantgm> ok, thanks
<grantgm> the compiled module is built with a simple makefile, which seems to build, but dpkg-buildpackage errors out: "unrepresentable changes to source"
<persia> grantgm: Can you pastebin your debian/rules and your buildlog?
<grantgm> debian/rules: http://pastebin.ca/1045660
<grantgm> output: http://pastebin.ca/1045662
<grantgm> debian/control: http://pastebin.ca/1045664
<grantgm> persia: would anything else be helpful?
<persia> No.  That's sufficient.
<grantgm> ok. thanks a lot having a look
<grantgm> *for having
<persia> To me, it appears the issue is that you have build it once in the tree, and your clean isn't deleting the generated files.
<grantgm> you're right: it appears that the makefile isn't cleaning the files built in the test directory
<tonyyarusso> Say, I need to test certain packages from -proposed, but don't want to upgrade everything.  I know I could enable it, upgrade the one package, then disable the repo again, but could someone tell me how to properly say "only upgrade packages foo, bar from -proposed, all else use these other repos" ?
<ajmitch> apt pinning
<ajmitch> 'man apt_preferences' says it better than I can sum up
<persia> http://wiki.debian.org/AptPinning is also a good reference
<wgrant> Sigh. Why do applications like Banshee feel they need to reimplement GTK?
<ajmitch> are you referring to the custom widgets & the human theme?
<wgrant> Yes.
<persia> wgrant: Remember.  Newer is better.
<wgrant> They seem to reimplement GTK's ListView for the sole purpose of combining selection bubbles.
<wgrant> And it's about the slowest UI I've ever seen.
<ajmitch> it's a microvell conspiracy
<wgrant> Ah, and there's some strange effect on the play queue when you add something to it.
<wgrant> I'm sure GTK could be altered to do that without rewriting the whole thing in ridiculously slow Cairo.
<RAOF> wgrant: You obviously need a better video driver :)
 * RAOF also agrees with gtk reimplemenation bitching.
<wgrant> RAOF: It's an i915. It runs Compiz fine.
<wgrant> But it can't render a *media player*'s interface quickly.
<RAOF> That's because intel doesn't have a nice XRender backend (yet).
<RAOF> No one accelerates EXA well.  Except nouveau.
<persia> RAOF: Does nouveau display a normal desktop well yet?
<RAOF> persia: Yes.  It has done for _ages_.
<wgrant> Yes.
<wgrant> I use it at work.
<wgrant> It's rather nice, as long as you don't want Compiz.
<persia> Then why isn't it in the repos yet?
<wgrant> The multimonitor is infinitely better than the blob.
<RAOF> Because I'd need to break libdrm to do it.
<RAOF> wgrant: Oh, _hell yes_.
 * persia can't use compiz anyway, because compiz + cairo + nVidia binary blob + old graphics card = extra heat
<wgrant> RAOF: How's 3D coming along?
<persia> RAOF: What's the bad part about breaking libdrm?
<RAOF> persia: It's at the bottom of the X stack.
<wgrant> RAOF: NVIDIA does it, no?
<ajmitch> the nvidia blob doesn't use libdrm
<RAOF> wgrant: Break libdrm?  No.  They just ignore it.
<wgrant> Right.
<RAOF> Like they ignore _every other_ piece of X infrastructure.
<RAOF> :(
<RAOF> Elisa no longer segfaults.  It now doesn't display any video, but it does'nt segfault.
 * ajmitch wonders when we'll see kernel modesetting in mainline
<wgrant> Fedora's testing it, right?
<persia> From what I can find, Fedora seems to so some rough equivalent of dpkg-divert for the alternate libdrm
<persia> s/so/do/
<RAOF> nouveau is sitting in Debian experimental NEW, too.
<RAOF> If libdrm gets a release that supports it before FF, I'll totally be syncing stuff accross.
<persia> RAOF: Is my understanding correct that nouveau_libdrm can support most things, as long as the user is using nouveau, and only breaks things for other people?
<RAOF> persia: Actually, it shouldn't break anything.  But it's a git snapshot of a lib at the base of the X stack, so I'm not interested in pushing it to Intrepid.
<wgrant> RAOF: So it's just new, not Nouveau-specific?
<persia> RAOF: Hrm.  OK.
<RAOF> wgrant: Correct.
<persia> Do the PPA packages work cleanly?
<ajmitch> does it assume different kernel interfaces as well?
<RAOF> persia: Yup.
<RAOF> ajmitch: No.  It provides the kernel interfaces.
<ajmitch> I can't recall if you can mix & match old drm modules & a new libdrm
 * persia encourages RAOF's intrepidation, especially the bit about fearless audacity.  Finding out if the latest git snapshot works is what Alpha releases were designed to do :)
<RAOF> I don't think you can.  Or, rather, you can't build nouveau against an old libdrm.
<ajmitch> RAOF: right, that was more my point with it, seeing what else would have to be updated to bleeding edge snapshots :)
<RAOF> ajmitch: Just libdrm.
<ajmitch> how's the work with gallium progressing?
<RAOF> If people _really_ want, I'll ask for a sync/merge of experimental's libdrm, ask to add the kernel module to linux-ubuntu-modules, and sync xserver-xorg-video-nouvea.
 * ajmitch may hold off from upgrading for awhile 
<ajmitch> I like having a working system
<RAOF> Gallium exists.  It doesn't work nearly well enough for anyone who cares about 3d.
 * wgrant might upgrade to Intrepid after the calculus exam tomorrow.
<RAOF> Although there's now a XvMC state tracker in git.  That'll be cool.
<wgrant> What does that do?
<persia> RAOF: How likely is an upstream release in the next couple months?  If we're likely to switch for intrepid anyway, maybe better to start wider testing sooner (although this ought be discussed in #ubuntu-devel, as libdrm is fairly core)
<RAOF> persia: I really have no idea.  Upstream may wait until the great gpu-memory-manager wars are resolved before releaseing, in which case that's an indeterminate period.
<persia> RAOF: Ah.  Hrm.
<wgrant> Who are the contenders in that battle?
<RAOF> TTM and GEM.
<wgrant> Never heard of the latter.
<RAOF> Keith P did GEM for the intel driver.
<wgrant> Why must one conquer the other?
<RAOF> Because people don't want to support two gpu memory manager interfaces in the kernel indefinately.
<wgrant> Ah.
 * ajmitch thought that TTM originated with intel
<RAOF> It did.  A different group, I think.
<ajmitch> Ah, that makes it fun :)
 * persia despairs over the inconvenience of attempting to handshake with one left hand and one right hand
<RAOF> For bonus points, neither has really been used for !intel hardware yet.
<wgrant> persia: Why would one attempt that?
<persia> wgrant: When the left hand and the right hand have been properly introduced, it is easier for them to thereafter collaborate...
<ajmitch> RAOF: right, and I understand that memory management can be done quite differentlly on other cards
<RAOF> ajmitch: Very much so.  I think that new ATI and nVidia have fully virtualised gpu-memory, for example.
<dholbach> good morning
<TiMiDo> hey anyone in here can help me?
<persia> TiMiDo: Depends on the task with which you need help
<TiMiDo> persia: im making  a packaged but im getting this error
<TiMiDo> Source archive you specified ( ../mdk-1.2.4 ) was not found!
<TiMiDo> i'm in the dir.. and i'm doing it.. but i'm getting that error
<persia> TiMiDo: You'll need to supply a little more context.  Would you pastebin the relevant log?
<TiMiDo> okey
<TiMiDo> http://pastebin.ca/1045760
<TiMiDo> there it is persia
<devfil> doko: ping
<persia> TiMiDo: And does ../mdk-1.2.4 exist?
<TiMiDo> yes it does
<TiMiDo> i'm in that dir
<TiMiDo> but im getting that error any ideas persia ?
<persia> Right.  I dislike dh_make enough to have never used it.  Anyone else familiar?
<devfil> TiMiDo: use dh_make -e farias.aaron@gmail.com with no ../mdk-1.2.4
<devfil> if you are in the dir of sources ../mdk-1.2.4 is not needed
<TiMiDo> Could not find mdk_1.2.4.orig.tar.gz
<TiMiDo> Either specify an alternate file to use with -f,
<TiMiDo> or add --createorig to create one.
<devfil> TiMiDo: il .. of sources paste the orig of the sources, it is needed to use dh_make
<TiMiDo> ?
<devfil> s/il/in/
<TiMiDo> sorry i'm confused
<devfil> TiMiDo: compress orginal sources to tar.gz and rename it to mdk_1.2.4.orig.tar.gz
<devfil> move this file in the .. of the sources, your ~/debian/
<devfil> and then use dh_make
<TiMiDo> okey dne
<devfil> persia: why you dislike dh_make?
<TiMiDo> Skipping creating ../mdk_1.2.4.orig.tar.gz because it already exists
<TiMiDo> Done. Please edit the files in the debian/ subdirectory now. mdk
<TiMiDo> uses a configure script, so you probably don't have to edit the Makefil
<devfil> TiMiDo: now edit the debian dir as you want to make a working package
<TiMiDo> devfil: can you help me a little I'm totally a newbie on this =)
<persia> devfil: Because I don't like some of the defaults, and I find it annoying to delete all the examples.  Generally, I find I want to create debian/rules and debian/copyright from scratch.  debian/changelog is dch --create.  debian/control is the only benefit I see to dh_make, and it's not really that hard to type.
<devfil> TiMiDo: you should start reading this http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<TiMiDo> devfil: i've read it =)
<TiMiDo> i just need some help
<devfil> TiMiDo: what exactly?
<TiMiDo> on what dirs do i ut?
<TiMiDo> *put
<devfil> TiMiDo: in dir you should put dirs that will be created in the package
<TiMiDo> okey but what locations do i put it?
<TiMiDo> there's two .... dirs names on it
<RAOF> You almost certainly don't need anything in debian/dirs
<TiMiDo> okey so after that what do  i do?
<RAOF> TiMiDo: Come back in here.
<TiMiDo> okey
<RAOF> What is it that you actually want to do?
<TiMiDo> RAOF: create a packaged =) for my first time
<RAOF> You're trying to package mdk 1.2.4, I guess?
<TiMiDo> yes RAOF
<RAOF> And you've read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide ?
<RAOF> The files in debain/ are basically divided into metadata and the debian/rules file which is a makefile that actually does the building.
<TiMiDo> yeah i did
<TiMiDo> RAOF: i'm lost in the debian/rules part =)
<RAOF> Right.  So, debian/rules is a makefile with a couple of mandatory targets and a couple of optional targets.
<RAOF> How familiar are you with makefiles?
<TiMiDo> Well.. i'm new on that also =)
<TiMiDo> never had make a Makefile myself =)
<persia> siretart: congratulations
<\sh> Without knowing how to write makefiles, you life is miserable and you can't enjoy your evening times...
<\sh> Makefiles make the world go round...do a makefile a day ;)
<RAOF> Right.  You might want to read a make manual, but it's not totally necessary to do the basics.  The unindented lines with colons, like "build: " are targets.  That's what gets called when you do "debian/rules build"
<RAOF> The things after the target name are dependencies, so "build: configure" will run the configure: target before running build:
<RAOF> The tab-indented lines are then what gets actually _run_.  Each line gets passed to a (different) shell, and executed.
<TiMiDo> damn I'm so freaking lost =*(
<RAOF> Right.
<RAOF> So, probably playing around with some makefiles is a good idea.
<devfil> persia: do you know what an universe contributor do?
<TiMiDo> RAOF: is there any tutorials on makefiles?
<persia> devfil: How do you mean?
<RAOF> TiMiDo: Google gives me http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html , which is a not unreasonable introduction.
<persia> In general, the universe contributors (including MOTU) do the majority of the work in maintaining the packages in universe.
<TiMiDo> hmm okey?
<RAOF> TiMiDo: It's also somewhat tailored towards building C programs, but that's GNU for you :)
<TiMiDo> oh ic
<devfil> persia: not MOTU, only universe contributors. What are the differences between a normal user that help (as me) and an universe contributor?
<RAOF> TiMiDo: Just section 2 should give a reasonable overview.
<lifeless> RAOF: actually, thats posix
<lifeless> RAOF: but YMMV
<persia> devfil: Mostly just a history of contributions.  Being an official Universe Contributor includes Ubuntu Membership, so one can use an @ubuntu.com email address and be on planet, etc.
<RAOF> lifeless: I was thinking about autotools particularly in this case.  Which is great if you're using something sufficiently C like.
<devfil> persia: so a user choices to be universe contributor or ubuntu member
<lifeless> RAOF: ah fair enough.
<persia> devfil: It's not a choice, really.  Being a universe contributor is one of the ways that one can become an Ubuntu Member.
<devfil> persia: ok, so become universe contributor is not needed to become in future MOTU
<persia> devfil: They are different things.
<persia> Universe Contributors are recognised for their contributions within the Ubuntu development community, and gain membership through this recognition.  MOTU are responsible for overseeing all contributors (recognised or not) to the Ubuntu universe component, and have geen granted the right to upload without review.
<persia> Every MOTU is a Universe Contributor, but not every Universe Contributor is MOTU.
<lifeless> devfil: universe contributor is just 'those who contribute'
<devfil> ok, thanks for the reply :)
<lifeless> devfil: 'motu' is those responsible for reviewing contributions and ensuring quality etc
<persia> lifeless: Well, a little more than that; there's an application process for Ubuntu Contributing Developers to get recognised and gain the benefits of membership now.
<lifeless> persia: still
<lifeless> persia: if you strip away the beaucracy ...
<persia> lifeless: Well, yes :)
<devfil> lifeless: yes, I know. I did understand reading the wiki that become universe contributor is a step needed to become MOTU, but I was wrong :)
<lifeless> d
<persia> devfil: It's very definitely not a step required on the way to MOTU.  Many people qualify for Universe Contributor before they qualify for MOTU, but lots of people became MOTU directly.
<lifeless> I would say, its impossible to _qualify_ for MOTU without also _qualifying_ for UC
<persia> lifeless: That's certainly true.
<lifeless> devfil: so when you are ready to be a MOTU, apply for that
<lifeless> devfil: and if you aren't yet, you might be ready to be a UC
<devfil> lifeless: I'm ubuntu member, so I think is not necessary for me to become UC
<lifeless> devfil: no, not at all
<emgent> morning
<devfil> hi emgent :)
<emgent> devfil: :)
<TiMiDo> devfil: after i created it the rules what do i do now/
<RAOF> TiMiDo: You've got some idea of what a makefile looks like now?  Good.
<devfil> TiMiDo: did you put build depends on debian/control?
<TiMiDo> devfil: nope
<devfil> TiMiDo: in debian/control, in the build-depends field you must put the dependencies needed to build the source
<devfil> Ti
<TiMiDo> devfil: yeah done
<TiMiDo> now what?
<devfil> TiMiDo: in depends of the package you must put dependencies needed to run the package
<devfil> depends field
<RAOF> devfil: Except, in most cases, these should be automatically generated.
<devfil> RAOF: in most cases
<devfil> TiMiDo: now you should try to build the package, to see if it works
<RAOF> TiMiDo: So, here's one of those places where you need to know something about the thing you're packaging :)
<TiMiDo> devfil: how do i build the package?
<RAOF> Running "debian/rules binary" should work, but most people will use dpkg-buildpackage or debuild.
<TiMiDo> dpkg-buildpackage: set CFLAGS to default value: -g -O2
<TiMiDo> dpkg-buildpackage: set CPPFLAGS to default value:
<TiMiDo> dpkg-buildpackage: set LDFLAGS to default value:
<TiMiDo> dpkg-buildpackage: set FFLAGS to default value: -g -O2
<TiMiDo> dpkg-buildpackage: set CXXFLAGS to default value: -g -O2
<TiMiDo> tail: cannot open `debian/changelog' for reading: No such file or directory
<TiMiDo> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: tail of debian/changelog gave error exit status 1
 * persia strongly recommends running `debuild -S` before building any binaries, to avoid confusion.
<TiMiDo> oh ic =)
<devfil> TiMiDo: you can use pbuilder, but I think is better if you use debuild binary, debuild binary shows you during build in the sources dir all the file generated ecc...
<devfil> you can see if you did a good rules or not
<TiMiDo> i got an error
<TiMiDo> let http://pastebin.ca/1045802
<TiMiDo> that's the error
<devfil> TiMiDo: you should install build depends on your pc before use debuild binary
<devfil> s/should/must/
<TiMiDo> devfil: look read the error that what i've got
<TiMiDo> did i do something wrong
<TiMiDo> ?
<RAOF> TiMiDo: That error's OK; it's only about signing your packages.  You can ignore it for now.
<TiMiDo> okey RAOF now the package is ready?
<RAOF> Now you have a source package.
<RAOF> Readiness is a different metric :)
<TiMiDo> oh okey cool =)
<TiMiDo> now what? do i do with it?
<RAOF> Well, build it, generally.  Does it build?
<RAOF> debuild -us -uc will try to build it, without signing.
<TiMiDo> as root?
<RAOF> No.
<TiMiDo> http://pastebin.ca/1045805
<TiMiDo> now i got thatt error =)
<RAOF> So, you need to install cdbs
<RAOF> "Unmet build dependencies: cdbs" is the important line.
<TiMiDo> how do i installed cdbs?
<devfil> TiMiDo: try again to build
<RAOF> Same way you'd install any other package?
<RAOF> Generally, I'd 'sudo aptitude install cdbs', but synaptic, apt-get, packagekit... all these and more are your options ;)
<devfil> TiMiDo: sudo apt-get install cdbs
<TiMiDo> okey
<TiMiDo> is building
<TiMiDo> nice done =)
<TiMiDo> and now how do i put it up?
<RAOF> Put it up where?
<TiMiDo> on launchpadn
<RAOF> You mean, in a PPA?
<TiMiDo> yeah
<TiMiDo> so people can download my package
<RAOF> Well, for that I'd suggest looking at the PPA-quickstart guide, linked to from your PPA page.
<TiMiDo> oh ic
<TiMiDo> RAOF: if i want to put it on ubuntu
<TiMiDo> ?
<RAOF> Then you want to upload the source package to revu.  You'll want to make sure that running 'lintian -iI' on the .changes file doesn't list any problems.
<RAOF> You'll also want to check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews#NewPackage
<RAOF> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU is the link to revu howto.
<siretart> persia: thanks. let's see how good things will work out with me
<\sh> go siretart go :)
<mbudde> I'm having problems building a package with pbuilder, is this the right place to ask for help?
<huats> mbudde: I thinnk so..
<huats> fire away
<huats> siretart: congrats !
<mbudde> ok, I'm trying to build enblend from hardy repos but pbuilder fails: http://paste2.org/p/38383  I have successfully build the hello package so i guess it has something to do with the dependencies?
<theseinfeld> !search *
<ubottu> Found: logs-#ubuntuforums, tvout, abs, hdbug, picard, gary, ubunto, officialdocs, winkey, overshare
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<theseinfeld> howdy ho
<mbudde> I solved my problem, "sudo pbuilder update --other-mirror ... --override-config" did the job
<\sh> http://www.sourcecode.de/content/launchpad-desktop-integration
<\sh> get hot new stuff now :)
<emgent> woow
<emgent> nice :)
<emgent> \sh: alpha is avaiable ?
<\sh> emgent: not now...I'll push the stuff on LP the next few days...when some functionality is there :)
<emgent> cool :)
<devfil> \sh: very nice
<emgent> \sh: gnome version too (GTK and not QT) will be avaiable? :)
<\sh> emgent: the plan is to provide several frontends :)
<\sh> emgent: lp-desk -kde / lp-desk -gnome or something like this
<emgent> cool, very good idea :)
<\sh> like ubiquity...one backend, several frontends
<\sh> emgent: right now, it was just a practive with new pyqt4/pykde4 love...:)
<emgent> hehehe ok :)
<\sh> practice even :)
<ScottK> Does it seem priority inversion to anyone else that "He was also recommended by Launchpad developers" is a significant qualification for our LP liaison?
<ScottK> Usually customers are by definition credible with their service providers.
<ScottK> siretart: Congratulations.
<\sh> ScottK: *g*
<lukehasnoname> Hey, simple bug fix for you guys, 238427
<lukehasnoname> Hey, simple bug fix for you guys, #238427
<ScottK> Where is the Universe SRU verification process documented?
<ScottK> Bug #238427
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238427 in siproxd "cannot install siproxd on 8.04 due to missing dependancy libosip2-3" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/238427
<lukehasnoname> <_<
<DktrKranz2> ScottK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates?action=show&redirect=SRU#head-4f8a5c972c2b7f429e32535b806e78d34275d84d or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/PerformingSRUVerification
<ScottK> DktrKranz2: Those don't actually say HOW to do verification for Universe.
<ScottK> How many people need to test?
<ScottK> What's the aging requirement?
<ScottK> Etc.
<ScottK> Unless I miss it....
<DktrKranz2> ScottK: there's no difference, AFAIK. And aging requirement is just an archive admin task
<DktrKranz2> aging period is described here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration#head-1f27dc12ab1558ec21b31ac44e4c86a87a4cd053
<ScottK> It used to be that it took any 2 positive reports for Universe SRUs, but Main SRUs had to be verified from the SRU verification team.
<ScottK> DktrKranz2: Is there any point in community feedback with the current process?
<sistpoty|work> DktrKranz2, ScottK: how about bug 220910... should I tag this as verification-done, as it was tested by the original reporter?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 220910 in tk-brief "tk-brief has broken dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220910
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Apparently we aren't on the right team for that.  We can say it's OK to upload, but aren't allowed to have an opinion on if it works.
<DktrKranz2> ScottK: it used to, but some times ago we merged two policy, leaving to sru verification to check for open sru candidates (bdmurray clarified everyone can join in, not only canonical employees)
<DktrKranz2> I asked to join to look at uni/multiverse SRUs
<ScottK> DktrKranz2: Currently, as written, there is no requirement or even request for user testing of proposed packages.
<ScottK> Current process says, "he SRU verification team may also discover that your fix is good."
<ScottK> Dear DktrKranz2, please discover that the fix for Bug #226845 is good.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226845 in amavisd-new-milter "amavisd-new-milter: unmet dependencies" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226845
<DktrKranz2> do you want to bring back "2 works for me" rule?
<DktrKranz2> or do we want more sru-verification guys?
<ScottK> I think at the very least we ought to actually ask, in the process, for input from users of the packages.
<ScottK> I think 2 works for me is good for Universe as it's not reasonable to expect SRU verification team members to be intimately familiar with all the packages in Universe
<ScottK> I'd suggest 2 worksforme and motu-sru to do verification of Universe/Multiverse SRUs.
<DktrKranz2> Well, sometimes archive-admins copy packages to -updates even if bugs lack sru-verification input if there are people who declare fix is good, so this could be a good point
<ScottK> So we aren't even following the process as written now.
<DktrKranz2> exactly
<sistpoty|work> I wouldn't make it too strict for small fixes, to be more aligned with main (e.g. for my main sru, I was the only person who tested the .deb from proposed, and pitti still marked it as verification-done :))
 * ScottK nods.
<ScottK> DktrKranz2: Following the current process, would you please mark Bug #226845 verified.  I just tested it and it works.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226845 in amavisd-new-milter "amavisd-new-milter: unmet dependencies" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226845
<ScottK> I also marked in the bug.
<DktrKranz2> ScottK: I can't find it in the mirrors, I'll wget it from LP, just a sec...
<ScottK> Odd.  It was on mine.
<ScottK> Ah well.
<DktrKranz2> mh, italy is lazy sometimes :)
<leleobhz> ive fixed this bitebug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kphone/+bug/238192
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238192 in kphone "no man page for 'kphone'" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<leleobhz> have something to do now?
<DktrKranz2> ScottK: during motu-sru meeting, we should talk about SRU process as well, maybe we can have some exceptions for Universe (e.g. bugfix releases)
<ScottK> DktrKranz2: OK.
<ScottK> We could make the formal process change as simple as "For Universe/Multiverse packages, motu-sru is the SRU verification team."
<DktrKranz2> or restore community feedbacks as verification
<DktrKranz2> ScottK: I'll need to redo my VM, It will take me a bit, I'll check in a hour.
<ScottK> DktrKranz2: No rush.
<ScottK> DktrKranz2: I think using community feedback would be a detail of how motu-sru would do it.  I don't think we'd need to disturb the formal process definition for that.
<DktrKranz2> so, if motu-sru is fine, we tag bug as verification-done
<ScottK> Yes.
<DktrKranz2> Sounds good
<DktrKranz2> ScottK: have you time to review a merge for main?
<ScottK> DktrKranz2: Not just now.  Give me the bug and I'll get to it later today if I can.
<DktrKranz2> ScottK: bug 226783.
<ubottu> DktrKranz2: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/226783/+text)
<DktrKranz2> d'oh!
<ScottK> DktrKranz2: Not scons.  I don't think I want ot touch that.
<ScottK> ot/to
<DktrKranz2> ok, thanks anyway
<DktrKranz2> ScottK: FTY, amavisd-new-milter verification done :)
<ScottK> DktrKranz2: Thanks.
<DktrKranz2> *FYI
<leleobhz> someone can tellme what i need to do with this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kphone/+bug/238192
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238192 in kphone "no man page for 'kphone'" [Undecided,Fix released]
<sistpoty|work> leleobhz: subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors, and please set the state back to confirmed (or triaged), as fix released means that a fixed package is available in the archive.
<siretart> \sh: huats_: ScottK: thanks. Still thinking about my opening email.
<leleobhz> sistpoty|work: oh, ok.
<leleobhz> sistpoty|work: and send the bug link into maillist?
<sistpoty|work> leleobhz: no, subscribing ubuntu-universe-sponsors is enough so that it appears in the teams worklist
<leleobhz> sistpoty|work: so, only revert to confirmed and wait?
<sistpoty|work> leleobhz: yes
<sistpoty|work> leleobhz: and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors of course (left hand side, "subscribe someone else" link on the bug page)
<leleobhz> sistpoty|work: done ;]
<leleobhz> sistpoty|work: thanks!
<sistpoty|work> np ;)
<leleobhz> sistpoty|work: ive corrected some problems in uniconvertor, its now wait-and-see?
<sistpoty|work> leleobhz: yes
<sistpoty|work> persia: btw.: where did you find the sistpoty@stud.uni-erlangen.de address? did I miss to update s.th. (don't have that address any longer, as I'm no student any longer *g*)
<Koon> When two packages conflict with each other, should the "Conflicts:" line be added to just one of the packages ? Or both ?
<ScottK> It depends.
<Koon> ScottK: in which cases would you need to have Conflicts: in both control files ?
<Koon> ScottK: or is it just good practice ?
<ScottK> It depends.
<ScottK> One common use of conflicts is to force removal of an obsolete package when a new package replaces it.
<ScottK> In that case adding it to the old package is not needed.
<Koon> ScottK: in this case it's two library-dev packages providing the same .a file
<ScottK> Koon: What exact problem are you trying to solve?
<ScottK> Ah
<ScottK> Does the file provide the same functionality?
<Koon> ScottK: I would say, not exactly.
<Koon> cgilib and libcgi-dev both provide /usr/lib/libcgi.a
<Koon> this was fixed in Debian by adding a Conflicts: line to cgilib
<Koon> and fixed in Ubuntu by adding a Conflicts: line to libcgi
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: ^^^ What do you think?
<ScottK> I take it they are separate source packages?
<theseinfeld> siretart, you there?
<Koon> Yes. When I merged libcgi, I carried on the delta since it wasn't fixed in the deb one. But now I am not sure it's really needed
<sistpoty|work> ScottK, Koon: if there is a duplicate file in both, add a conflicts to both source packages
<sistpoty|work> erm... binary packages that conflict
<siretart> theseinfeld: no, I'm gone. please leave a message after the beep. *BEEP*
<ScottK> If they could be considered alternatives, then update-alternatives might be appropriate.
<Koon> sistpoty|work: ok, it's in both binary packages that conflict (in Ubuntu).
<theseinfeld> siretart, ok, I was just wondering if we can talk live about that libdc1394 packaging thing...out...
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: no, you don't really want alternatives for static libraries... that would just feel somewhat wrong to me
<sistpoty|work> Koon: that's good :)
<ScottK> OK.
<Koon> siretart: about bug 239275, you asked me to report the issue in Debian...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239275 in libcgi "Please merge libcgi 1.0-6 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239275
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: at least I very much doubt there is a use case to have both static libraries installed at the same time
<ScottK> It sounds like we are in good shape then.
<Koon> siretart: in fact the issue has already been fixed in Debian (bugs #303326 and #462944) by adding a "Conflicts:" line in cgilib
<Koon> siretart: but not in libcgi (for libcgi-dev)
<siretart> Koon: well, then lets fix that! :) - is there already a bug for that?
<siretart> theseinfeld: sure, what's up?
<Koon> siretart: posting it right now
<sistpoty|work> congrats siretart btw for the launchpad-liason job ;)
<theseinfeld> siretart just emailed you also
<theseinfeld> siretart, well, like said in the email, I would like to see that work in ubuntu
<theseinfeld> siretart, and I will work it out also with debian
<theseinfeld> siretart: with guus, for getting him on board :)
<siretart> theseinfeld: I'm currently focused on something else, but anyways. I'm happy to hear that you want to work with guus. from my own experience I know that bugs are the easiest way to keep track of issues that need to be fixed
<siretart> theseinfeld: therefore I'd like to kindly ask you (again) to file whishlist bugs in debian so that guus can comment on them
<theseinfeld> siretart, well, guus knows about the issues. That is why I forked out from debian
<ScottK> theseinfeld: If you want progress, file the bugs.
<siretart> theseinfeld: forking a package here means duplicating work. I'd like to avoid that if there are no compelling reasons to do so.
<siretart> and I still don't see these reasons here
<Hobbsee> neither does he want the reasons here, he wants them in a bug report.
<siretart> theseinfeld: see, the worst what can happen is that guus decides to close the bug with the tag 'wontfix'. even if that happens, you still ahve a bugnumber to point to
<siretart> and the patch and its context will be available for ANY contributor (debian and ubuntu developer) to look at and comment.
<theseinfeld> siretart I'll do that
<siretart> thanks
<theseinfeld> siretart when you say to fill the bug, you mean in Debian, right?
<lukehasnoname> I'd venture a yes on that, theseinfeld
<siretart> theseinfeld: exactly. the tool 'reportbug' makes this pretty straightforward! (but please make sure to read its documentation first)
<theseinfeld> siretart, i have been using that before... don't worry, I will do that... thanks
<Koon> siretart: that would be Debian bug #485951 -- let me know if you need anything more from me.
<ubottu> Debian bug 485951 in libcgi-dev "missing Conflicts: line for libcgi-dev" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/485951
<leleobhz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kaffeine/+bug/209534
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 209534 in kaffeine "install-codecs crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Medium,Triaged]
<leleobhz> what is "
<leleobhz> what is "
<leleobhz> Accepted into hardy-proposed, please test.
<leleobhz> (sorry)
<brandon|work> I think the topic needs some updating
<brandon|work> today != wednesday
<leleobhz> tells the bug already fixed?
<geser> leleobhz: hardy-proposed has a fixed package which will be copied to hardy-updates if it fixes the problem and doesn't introduce new one (that the testing which is asked for).
<geser> usually such bugs should have a TEST CASE with steps to reproduce the problem but it seems to be missing here
<leleobhz> geser: ummmm...
<leleobhz> geser: thanks my explanation
* lukehasnoname changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | 8.04 is released: Let's fix any SRU-worthy bugs before the users try the package. | Intrepid open, go wild! https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | TODAY - Another day!! Keep working.
<leleobhz> RainCT: why the CTCP version?
 * leleobhz a little paranoic these days because a ctcp flood
<RainCT> leleobhz: heh dunno.. I like CTCP :P. Nice message, by the way :)
<leleobhz> RainCT: yesterday a guy was banned from ubuntu-br because this... he sent ctcp version to all channel members more than once
 * RainCT only send one to you :P
<RainCT> (because of the double Â«what is "Â», I was curious if that might be evil irssi messing up with copy-pastes -that happened to me more than once-)
<leleobhz> a bug into hardware between chair and monitor :]
<lukehasnoname> PEBKAC FTL
<RainCT> LOL
<leleobhz> :p
<RainCT> and it even exists (wtf pebkac) o_O
<leleobhz> lukehasnoname: PEBMAC ;]
<leleobhz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEBKAC
<RainCT> nice :)
<lukehasnoname> While things are quiet... http://xkcd.com/225/
<lukehasnoname> haha
<leleobhz> :p
<leleobhz> lukehasnoname: nice
<SpookyET> hi
<SpookyET> I have just started to use PPA, and it only allows me to make packages for intrepid. What do I have to do to enable hardy?
<leleobhz> SpookyET: set hardy on debian/changelog?
<SpookyET> leleobhz: it's set. but it changed it to intrepid
<leleobhz> (!)
<SpookyET> ppa changed it automagically
<cprov-out> SpookyET: how your dput.cf target looks like ? Are you using incoming = ~name/ubuntu/intrepid ?
<SpookyET> just  ~name/ubuntu/
<Derevko> I opened a new Bug #239484 , but at this moment I don't understand if the correct status is "In progress" or "Fix Committed"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239484 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] smbind" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239484
<cprov-out> SpookyET: uhm, what's your ppa url ?
<SpookyET> cprov-out: my nickname
<SpookyET> ~spookyet
<SpookyET> I proably did something stupid. I'm coming from Arch Linux. Making debs is a million times more complicated than pacman packages. I'm trying it again.
<cprov-out> SpookyET: nano-syntax (1:20080502-0ubuntu1~ppa2) intrepid; urgency=low
<SpookyET> dch -i put intrepid
<SpookyET> cprov-out: it's a cool package. gives nano syntax highlighting
<Pici> Nano already has syntax hilighting though...
<huats_> does anyone has seen nxvl lately ?
<mathiaz> huats_: he was around yesterday
<huats_> mathiaz: ok thanks.. I haven't seen him :)
<huats_> thanks :)
<mathiaz> huats_: he's busy these days - he tends to be around during his evenings
<huats_> mathiaz: thanks
<SpookyET> Pici: custom package with better and more syntaxes
<Pici> SpookyET: Ah, I see.
<SpookyET> maybe I should change the actual nano
<SpookyET> There is a huge thread in the gentoo forums. People chipped in their syntaxes
<ScottK> Derevko: If you are working on the package, including uploading to REVU, then In Progress.  Fix committed is for after a MOTU uploads it for archive admin final review.
<Derevko> ScottK: ok, thanks
<SpookyET> What's the proper way to version date based packages?
<SpookyET> i've seen 1:20080506-0ubuntu1   also 2008-05-06-0ubuntu1 a bunch of ways
<geser> SpookyET: something like 0.0.20080506-0ubuntu1 has the advantage that you don't get troubles if upstream changes the versioning to the usual scheme
<SpookyET> emacs-snapshot has 1:date-1ubuntu1
<geser> SpookyET: the 1: is the epoch and shouldn't be used unless necessary (e.g. upstream changed the versioning scheme and the new versions have a lower version than the old ones)
<geser> Hi bddebian!!!
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi geser
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<rulus> If someone has time, bug 239501 is looking for a sponsor. :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239501 in gnuvd "Please merge gnuvd 1.0.5-2 (multiverse) from Debian testing (contrib)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239501
<persia> ScottK: DktrKranz2: As a reminder, universe SRU policy is set by MOTU SRU, subject to confirmation at a MOTU Meeting.  If you don't like the current docs, please discuss within the team, and propose new ones.
<ScottK> persia: I must have missed that meeting.
<ScottK> persia: Will do.
<persia> That said, it's best to coordinate with the testing folks (#ubuntu-testing) to align processes and avoid confusion.
<persia> ScottK: I'll dig up the minutes...
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-11-23 is the closest I find.  I was expecting to find minutes for a 7th December meeting with the confirmation, but they appear to be missing.
<persia> No, the meeting on the 7th was me whining inconclusively about interdiff
<persia> DktrKranz2: I found https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-December/002965.html, but I can't find the minutes of the relevant MOTU SRU meeting.  Do you have a pointer?
<persia> DktrKranz2: Nevermind.  ScottK already asked :)  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/12/15/%23ubuntu-meeting.txt
<persia> ScottK: On review, I find that the policy set by MOTU SRU isn't subject to approval by MOTU Meeting, except insofar as MOTU Meeting has delegated the policy to MOTU SRU, and would be able to revoke such delegation (although I don't imagine this idea would get much traction)
<ScottK> persia: I suspect that if we reviewed it, we'd find that MOTU SRU was delegated the responsibilty to execute policy, not to create it.
<persia> ScottK: Do you mean by TB or by MOTU Meeting?
<ScottK> MOTU meeting.
<ScottK> The minutes say they'll document rationale for variance from Main, but that's it.
<persia> My memory (and those minutes) indicate that MOTU SRU was to review and establish policy, documenting where it differed from policy for main.
<ScottK> I see review in the minutes.  I don't see establish.
<persia> The log of the following MOTU SRU meeting covering those topics seemed to cover the policy in some detail.
<ScottK> Yes, but without authority to actually set policy, that's out of scope.
<persia> ScottK: That may be a secretarial error on my part.  I'll dig a bit deeper.
<ScottK> OK.
<persia> ScottK: No, the minutes are correct.  I asked that motu sru review the then existing policy, and explain differences from main.
<persia> It appears TB delegated MOTU SRU to MOTU generally.
<persia> MOTU delegated membership appointment to MOTU Council, and asked for MOTU SRU to explain policy.
<persia> TO change policy, we ought to have had a MOTU Meeting (which didn't happen).
<ScottK> I hate to be a stickler, but I think policy/process changes are important.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<persia> I'd like to encourage someone from MOTU SRU to propose a sane policy (and provide the requested documentation) at an upcoming MOTU Meeting after the MOTU SRU organisational meeting.
<persia> ScottK: No, thank you for the correction.  Policy is essential if we are to be a happy polity.  It's better to get it right than to ignore it.
<ScottK> Sounds reasonable.
<ScottK> DktrKranz2, jdong, TheMuso ^^^
<persia> \sh: ^^
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> I knew I forgot one.
<persia> Cody too, but he's not actively idling
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> Yes.  I did check for him.
<sebner> ScottK: your beloved LP will have downtimes on 3 days xD
<bobbo> gjkfjngkjjgj
<Pici> I object.
<norsetto> howdy dowdy
<devfil> hi norsetto :)
<norsetto> heya devfil
<slytherin> geser: ping
<norsetto> is it me, or LP is even slower than its usual snailpace?
<ScottK> It's slower.
<slytherin> norsetto: bug pages are slower, if you are using edge
<geser> slytherin: pong
<slytherin> geser: you keep forgetting about advocating xml-commons-external. :-(
<norsetto> oh well, at least I'm still not getting timeouts ...
<geser> slytherin: argh :(
<norsetto> ah! Why did I say that: Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.
<SpookyET> Can one link me to a tutorial on how to use PPA's bzr? I'd like to store packages in bzr. Idealy, only "debian" folders. Do you use +junk?
<ScottK> SpookyET: For PPA questions, #launchpad is a better channel.
<jussi01> could someone point me to the page that has the info on how to backport a package?
<ScottK> !Backports | jussi01
<ubottu> jussi01: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<jussi01> ScottK: thanks - is it worth my while doing the quassel one?? or has someone else done it already?
<ScottK> jussi01: You'd have to look.  I don't recall seeing it.
<jussi01> ScottK: you have a bad memory :D you did comment on it to give ack ;)
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Then it's just waiting for an archive admin to process it.
<jussi01> ok, so theres nothing I can do to speed it along?
<ScottK> If you want to harrass Riddell about it, up to you.  pitti generally does them on Fridays, so I'd suggest just leave it be.
<jussi01> ScottK: fyi bug 239165
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239165 in hardy-backports "Please backport Quassel " [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239165
<gpolo> is there something I could do try to gain some attention regarding a bug report (more like a wish) ?
<gpolo> this one specifically: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-stdlib-extensions/+bug/231239
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 231239 in python-stdlib-extensions "python-tk compiled against tk8.5" [Undecided,New]
<ScottK> jussi01: One useful addition to that bug would be the exact version and revision that you want backported.
<jussi01> ScottK: ahh, thank you - I had forgotten about that
<ScottK> gpolo: I think you are correct that 8.5 needs to get promoted first.
<ScottK> gpolo: You could start that process.  That should help move it along.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess for details.
<gpolo> ah, good to know
<gpolo> too bad I can't look at it right now then, will do it later tomorrow. Thanks ;)
<gpolo> but it really looks like there would be no problem on moving tcl/tk 8.5 to main
<ScottK> I would guess it almost certainly just needs the paperwork done.
<jussi01> ScottK: Riddell just did it :D
<ScottK> jussi01: Great.
<slytherin> geser: leaving now. see you on saturday. :-)
<DRebellion> Could someone spare a moment to take a look at my package in REVU? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=monkeystudio . Thanks :)
<leleobhz> DRebellion: fixed all stuff rainct said?
<DRebellion> leleobhz, yep
<leleobhz> DRebellion: lintian is ok too?
<DRebellion> leleobhz, yep
<DRebellion> leleobhz, apart from the fact that it complains about "intrepid" not being recognized in the changelog file
<DRebellion> leleobhz, but i guess that's expected
<DRebellion> (running hardy)
<RainCT> yep, Hardy's lintian doesn't know intrepid
<leleobhz> if you really cares about this, use a chrooted system
<leleobhz> DRebellion: its a kde app?
<DRebellion> leleobhz, i used pbuilder for the build test
<leleobhz> DRebellion: nice
<ScottK> DRebellion: Use the devscripts in hardy-backports and it won't complain any more.
<DRebellion> ScottK, ok
<DRebellion> leleobhz, it's a qt4 ide
<leleobhz> DRebellion: thinked about use CDBS?
<DRebellion> leleobhz, not really. This is my first package (you can probably tell from the numerous revisions)
<leleobhz> i dont see errors... but i if i be you, start to think use cdbs
<leleobhz> a example
<DRebellion> leleobhz, I will check it out for my next package then.
<leleobhz> http://cdbs.ueberalles.net/kolabadmin.html
<leleobhz> DRebellion: see how much its cleaner than make it by hands (and avoid mistakes)
<geser> ScottK: how will devscripts from hardy-backports stop complaining lintian about intrepid?
<ScottK> geser: Maybe that was the wrong package.
<ScottK> Lintian I guess.
<norsetto> I always thought that packages in -proposed should have a number < than that in the development distro !?
<geser> but using devscripts from hardy-backports should hurt either
<ScottK> DRebellion: I think I meant to say lintian, not devscripts.  But getting devscripts from backports is good too.  That one has dch -i will default to Intrepid.
<ScottK> norsetto: That's generally true.
<norsetto> ScottK: when would that be not true?
<geser> gnome updates perhaps
<ScottK> When the new repo wasn't open yet and we did SRU work that would be forward ported later or for a package that's been removed in the development version.
<ScottK> That might be another where they pushed it to -proposed/updates first.
<norsetto> scottk, geser: well, the package I'm looking at right now doesn't fit the bill, even though being a restricted-driver could explain it?
<ScottK> Is it the envng one?
<norsetto> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> envy-ng
<ScottK> Since the whole point of that package is to provide new NV driver crack to released versions, I think it's fine.
<mario_limonciell> norsetto, amd and nv crack are changing for intrepid anyhow fairly drastically
<devfil> someone have an amd64 with a virtual machine to test a "particolar" package?
<norsetto> mario_limonciell: and we get already requests for 8.6 :-)
<mario_limonciell> geez
<mario_limonciell> well at least starting with intrepid they'll be more feasible to fullfill
<RainCT> leleobhz: by the way, it looks like debhelper 8 will bring a lot of improvement for debian/rules
<leleobhz> RainCT: really nice!
<RainCT> leleobhz: I've seen dh8 rules files in Debian that look nearly as nice as CDBS ones :)
<leleobhz> i only think may it come with more cdbs documentation
<leleobhz> RainCT: :]
<leleobhz> RainCT: cleaner packages, less work, easiest bugfixes
<leleobhz> very nice
<mario_limonciell> RainCT, got a good example of a dh8 package?
 * leleobhz smashing our head with handbrake package
<mario_limonciell> oh noes, that crack again :)
<RainCT> *dh8 -> dh7
<RainCT> mario_limonciell: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/python-modules/packages/python-dsv/trunk/debian/rules?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
<mario_limonciell> wow
<mario_limonciell> that is very nice
<mario_limonciell> that feels quite like cdbs
<devfil> someone have an amd64 with a virtual machine to test a package?
<ScottK> mario_limonciell: That's by design.  I think the title of the feature was "CDBS Killer".
<mario_limonciell> well why is there the negative PR that surrounds CDBS in the first place?
<norsetto> mario_limonciell: we should go back to use ar ...
<nxvl> asac: ping
<mario_limonciell> norsetto, haha.
<RainCT> by the way, what happened with the proposal to compress package info (not sure how it's called, the stuff that 'apt-get/aptitude update' downloads)?
<rulus> I think bug 239501 is a candidate for a SRU for Hardy. There are no bugs filed in LP except the merge bug, should I apply the SRU procedure (nominating, updating bug description) on that bug?
<cyberix> What can a packager expect from the default system?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239501 in gnuvd "Please merge gnuvd 1.0.5-2 (multiverse) from Debian testing (contrib)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239501
<rulus> oops, sorry for the flood cyberix ;)
<cyberix> Should each package have a dependency chain down to a linux-package?
<ScottK> rulus: Why do you think it should go into Hardy?
<ScottK> cyberix: No.  You can assume essential packages are installed and build-essential is available when you build the package.
<rulus> ScottK: it's a tiny bugfix that makes the output of the program readable again; the current version in Hardy displays wrong thinks like javascript excerpts etc.
 * ScottK looks
<cyberix> I was just told that perl is not among such packages
<cyberix> Iirc each Ubuntu system has perl
<cyberix> That is why I'm confused
<rulus> ScottK: because of the same reason, the graphical interface is currently broken
<ScottK> rulus: Do you use this pacakge?
<ScottK> cyberix: You have to depend on perl if you need it.
<rulus> ScottK: personally, no, I'm developing a better program to do this (with a decent front-end)
<rulus> (which is not in the archive yet)
<ScottK> Since it's multiverse and no user has complained, I'd suggest leave it for now.
<rulus> ScottK: ok, sure
<ScottK> rulus: You will find Perl in all the standard Ubuntu installs, but since it's not an essential package, you can't assume it's there.
<cyberix> ScottK: Yes, but how should I know that?
<ScottK> Oops.  That was meant for you.
<rulus> np :)
<cyberix> ScottK: perl-base is a dependency of ubuntu-minimal. Doesn't that make it "essential"?
<ScottK> I'm looking at the definitions now and find myself a bit confused.
<ScottK> ubuntu-minimal is a meta-package.  It does not define the priority of the package.
<ScottK> So here's the definition of essential: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Essential
<ScottK> cyberix: Look at the output of apt-cache show dpkg for an example of an essential package.
<cyberix> coreutils also
<cyberix> probably some linux package
<cyberix> Can't find it, but I got the idea
<cyberix> Now for another matter
<cyberix> Should new Ubuntu packages be backwards compatible with previous Ubuntu-releases?
<ScottK> cyberix: If it's feasible to do so, yes. What specifically are you concerned about?
<ScottK> You must care that someone upgrading from the previous release (and the previous LTS release - but that's the same for Intrepid) can upgrade without failures.
<cyberix> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mi2svg
<cyberix> See 1) of June 12 19:47
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> cyberix: Do you have the same version of lintian?
<sybille_> Hi. Does anyone here know about licensing issues for packaging Firefox extensions? I'm thinking about trying to package Zotero, which is a bibliography management extension that also integrates with OpenOffice.org, but it's licensed under the Educational Community License version 1 and that's not on the list of acceptable licenses in the wiki. Thanks! :)
<sybille_> Just ask if you'd like some links. :)
<ScottK> sybille_: Please provide a link to the text of the license.
<sybille_> ScottK: http://www.opensource.org/licenses/ecl1.php
<cyberix> ScottK: You must have read wrong comment.
<ScottK> cyberix: I was.
<cyberix> ScottK: I could have a dependency on man-db (>= 2.5) to support old versions of Ubuntu.
<ScottK> cyberix: Add the dependency on man-db as he says.
<cyberix> Ok
<cyberix> I don't think it is a bad idea
<cyberix> I just felt that I have no idea how much work it would take to support all previous versions of Ubuntu.
<cyberix> And I was wondering why he is testing out the package on old systems in first place
<ScottK> That's not quite the point.  The point is that your program won't work right with the earlier versions of man-db, so you should version the dependency.
<ScottK> If you don't, then if people try to backport it, it'll just break and that's not right.
<ScottK> If the version needed is in Dapper, then no versioned depends is needed, but otherwise it is.
<emgent> sebner: ping
<cyberix> ScottK: It is ok to over estimate the required version?
<ScottK> No.
<cyberix> ScottK: I'd usually want to set a package to depend on the version that I used while packaging
<ScottK> Actually what you want is man-db (>= 2.5~) so the if someone backports man-db it'll work.
<ScottK> cyberix: No.  You want to set it on the needed version.
<cyberix> e.g. While I packaged Progress Quest I had no idea how well it would work on some old versions of WINE, so I just set it to depend on the current one.
<cyberix> It might work well with some old version
<sebner> emgent: pong
<ScottK> cyberix: That's not the correct way to do it.
<cyberix> Then again there are atleast minor problems even with the current on.
<cyberix> These are considered bugs
<cyberix> But it is still usable
<geser> sybille_: after a quick look the ECL looks dfsg-free
<geser> but I'm not a licensing expert
<directhex> debian-legal@lists
<cyberix> Finding out the oldest version of some library that the software can run on may be a Herculean task.
<emgent> warp10: ping
<cyberix> And it is not that hard to check it against some specific version, if you are back porting it.
<ScottK> cyberix: That's true.  Just version them where you know.
<ScottK> Don't set versions you don't know to be needed.
<sybille_> geser: Thanks, I think it ought to be OK, too, but... So, over in #ubuntu-mozillateam, I was just told to put the extension up on the wiki page and someone will take a closer look (They also sent me over here to ask). So that's what I'll do.
<ScottK> sybille_: Free, but extraordinarily painful to deal with.
<cyberix> ScottK: Oh. That makes sense.
<emgent> norsetto: heya
<norsetto> emgent: o/
<warp10> emgent: pong
<ScottK> sybille_: Make sure you comply with the " Notice of any changes or modifications to the Original Work, including the date the changes were made." part of the license.
<sebner> norsetto: he stole my merge but did it the old way :P (eggdrop)
<sebner> norsetto: go and tell him \o/ --> emgent
<cyberix> ScottK: Thanks a lot. You have been very helpful.
<emgent> lol
<RainCT> good night
<norsetto> sebner, emgent: I hope at least he used the right patch?
<ScottK> cyberix: You're welcome.
<sebner> norsetto: I think so but not eggdrop-ssl in debian/control
<sybille_> ScottK: That would mean adding something like a changelog for the package itself, I guess?
<norsetto> sebner: thats ok, it was just an exercise for you anway
<ScottK> sybille_: Read the license and make your best judgement.  IANAL.
<cyberix> norsetto: Please don't feel bad about me arguing with you. It is nothing personal. I'm just trying to understand how stuff works and trying to get out a good package.
<ScottK> sybille_: You might see if you can get upstream to change to some other license.  AFAICT the standart MIT license does most of the same things without all the pain.
<emgent> sebner: do you like work in eggdrop-ssl or i can?
<norsetto> cyberix: why should I feel bad? I quite like that you try to understand
<cyberix> norsetto: Ok. Good. Just wanted to make sure.
<sybille_> ScottK: Yeah, I'll talk to the Zotero people about it. Thanks!
<norsetto> cyberix: np at all, feel free to ask any question you want
<norsetto> emgent, sebner: you are using the wrong patch for eggdrop
<emgent> 20 April 2008 - Eggdrop 1.6.19 released, SSL patch updated
<emgent> true norsetto
<emgent> sebner: I can fix or you like work in this package ?
<emgent> so, we can think to eggdrop-ssl too..
<Saj0577> Hey guys.
<sebner> norsetto: emgent : ah the old patch was used ;)
<sebner> norsetto: we used the old patch and did the merge like I wanted to do it. but it isn't uploaded yet
<sebner> norsetto: we = he
<Saj0577> Hey, I Want to help out with MOTU I know next to nothing about it but I am intrested. Can anyone help me?
<norsetto> Saj0577: sure
<Saj0577> norsetto: How I start? How I Show willing? How I get someone to help me along the way? Sorry for all questions in advance ;)
<norsetto> !packaging | Saj0577
<ubottu> Saj0577: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<emgent> sebner: i know
<norsetto> Saj0577: you may also want to check this link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<norsetto> Saj0577: this is the right place to ask questions and advice
<Saj0577> Checked that one briefly going to read it in full in a minute :)
 * Saj0577 is reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<bobbo> norsetto: if you've got time could you check out my new fix for bug #195196?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 195196 in graphmonkey "graphmonkey: Upgrade to new upstream release (1.7)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195196
<norsetto> jussi01: do we have any factoid that points to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted ?
<norsetto> bobbo: warp10 will check it out tomorrow
<bobbo> norsetto: ah ok, thanks :)
<norsetto> bobbo: just one question
<bobbo> norsetto: sure
<warp10> bobbo: yeah, for just 10 euros (special prices today!)
<norsetto> bobbo: did you make a get-orig-source rule?
<bobbo> norsetto: i created a Watch file, from your comment i though you made either a watch or a get-orig-source?
<norsetto> bobbo: I'm asking since the upstream tarball is funnily name (GraphMonkey-1.7-src.tar.gz or something similar)
<norsetto> bobbo: yes, a rule to make a proper orig.tar.gz using the watch file could be very cool
<bobbo> norsetto: i'll have a look :)
<norsetto> bobbo: thanks. Let me know if you need help
<norsetto> Saj0577: before immerging yourself into the packaging guide, I would also suggest you have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment, it really answers a lot of questions about how we develop ubuntu, really helpful for people who doesn't know our processes
<Saj0577> norsetto: thank you
<leleobhz> well, my package about dependencies
<leleobhz> [12/06-18:49:44] <@jbrjake> and no, it cannot use your system's libraries, because your system cannot guarantee it has the specific revisions handbrake needs nor will they have the custom patches handbrake applies.
<leleobhz> so, i leave the compilation system intact?
<ryanakca> How can I make knmap not run configure twice (once at start of build, and one at the end)?
<bobbo> norsetto: Using the second example from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Examples/ChangingTheOrigTarball, the version number should be hard coded right?
<norsetto> bobbo: the version number you should get from uscan filtered by the sed, even though that regexp looks funny
<bobbo> norsetto: im downloading some packages with examples in them, ill see what they di
<bobbo> s/di/do/
<norsetto> bobbo: yes, it works fine
<leleobhz> noone?
<norsetto> bobbo: in the dehs output you will see a line with something like <upstream-version>1.2.0</upstream-version>
<norsetto> bobbo: and the sed will just return what is in between <upstream-version> and </upstream-version>
<bobbo> ah, ok
<norsetto> bobbo: so, you don't need to use the bzcat, just use an mv (or a cp)
<bobbo> norsetto: what command do i test the get-orig-source with?
<norsetto> bobbo: btw, there is no need to do something so complex, a simple usca --force-downloads will do
<norsetto> bobbo: sorry, uscan --force-downloads
<norsetto> bobbo: argh: uscan --force-download
<bobbo> norsetto: hehe, tired?
<norsetto> bobbo: test it with "make -f debian/rules get-orig-source"
<norsetto> bobbo: dislexic :-/
<bobbo> norsetto: ah, ok :)
<bobbo> norsetto: "make: Nothing to be done for `get-orig-source'."
<norsetto> bobbo: make sure to use tabs!
<TheMuso> ScottK: What was the ping about earlier?
<Saj0577> Fixing a bug on a program and I dont have an email account that works so would it be alright if I just put my wiki link where the email goes as i dont have an email account?
<norsetto> bobbo: there is nothing being mentioned in the debian package, but I think the upstream tarball was changed so that it unrolls in graphmonkey-1.7 not GraphMonkey-1.7-src
<bobbo> norsetto: yeah, it extracts to ./graphmonkey-1.7
<norsetto> bobbo: ok
<Saj0577> Yeah?No?
<slangasek> Saj0577: "where the email goes" - do you mean in the debian/changelog?
<Saj0577> yeah.
<slangasek> no, that won't work
<Saj0577> I have no email acc that works at present so what should I do?
<slangasek> the changelog format requires that it be formatted as an email address; it doesn't have to be valid (though we certainly /want/ it to be), but it does have to be well-formatted
<slangasek> what about getting an email account with a free provider?
<Saj0577> okay. Then would it be okay to change it later for a pernament email address or what?
<slangasek> sure
<Saj0577> okay. Will do that for now then and change it on a later date. :)
<slangasek> we wouldn't go back and update old changelogs of already-uploaded packages, but maybe you'll have a permanent email address before the upload happens. :)
<norsetto> Saj0577: just use slangasek@ubuntu.com, he won't mind
 * norsetto runs away
<Saj0577> When the upload happen?
<bobbo> Saj0577: once a sponsor has reviewed it and deemed it good enough to go into the archives
<Saj0577> o right il just keep this email for MOTU work then ;)
<ajmitch> norsetto: bad person
<norsetto> ajmitch: person?
<ajmitch> norsetto: you
<zul> hey ajmitch
<slangasek> ajmitch: what would be interesting is to see whether anyone would sponsor it that way
<ajmitch> unless you're just another irc bot? :)
<norsetto> ajmitch: yes, who told I'm  a person!?
<ajmitch> slangasek: it'd be interesting to see
<norsetto> ajmitch: actually, it happened to me once
<norsetto> ajmitch: by mistake somebody used by email as the maintainer, I discovered it only because it popped up in my list of assigned packages
<ajmitch> probably more likely for that to happen than for your name to end up in the changelog
<norsetto> ajmitch: it could happen, somebody copy&pasting an old changelog and forgetting to change the email, perhaps
<Saj0577> hey guys when i run debuild -S i get the error: gpg: [stdin]: clearsign failed: secret key not available.   Any advice?
<Jazzva> Saj0577: You need to generate a pair of public-secret GPG keys, using your name and e-mail address with it
<Saj0577> yeah i have the key created on my machine with that email account and name
<Jazzva> !GPG | Saj0577
<ubottu> Saj0577: gpg is the GNU Privacy Guard.  See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto and class #8 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-13
<Saj0577> the key appears on Passwords and Encrypted Keys. That right yeah?
<Saj0577> I need to upload it to LP?
<stdin> you need to upload to LP if you want to dput, yeah
<Saj0577> okay thanks
<slangasek> but that's not the reason for the error with debuild
<slangasek> that error is because the name/email in your changelog and GPG key don't match exactly, or because gpg can't find your private key at all
<Saj0577> slangasek its uploaded and activated on LP and still same problem
<slangasek> yes, I said, that's not the reason for the error with debuild
<Saj0577> the name and email are identical in key and the changelog
<emgent> night people
<Jazzva> Saj0577: Try passing your gpg key to debuild with -kABCD1234 where ABCD1234 is your gpg key
<Jazzva> you can find it with gpg --list-keys
<Saj0577> space between -k and they key or exactly like that?
<Jazzva> Easiest way (that I know of) would be setting it in ~/.bashrc
<Jazzva> Exactly like that
<Saj0577> debuild -k<key here>
<Saj0577> yes?
<Jazzva> Yes. Along with other parameters you're passing (-S etc...)
<Saj0577> k
<Saj0577> that worked
<Saj0577> thank you
<Jazzva> if you want to skip passing your key to debuild every time, you can add something like this to ~/.bashrc http://paste.ubuntu.com/19746/
<Jazzva> np
<Jazzva> Just adjust it to your key, name and e-mail
<Saj0577> Thanks again :)
<Jazzva> np, again :)
<Saj0577> just plonk it on bottom? can i add multiple keys that way?
<Jazzva> Yes, you can put it on the end. I don't think you can use multiple keys that way. But maybe I'm wrong.
<Saj0577> k
<Saj0577> Jazzva: you tend to use different gpg keys for diffferent things or same one for everything?
<Jazzva> The same one for everything.
<Saj0577> okays
<Saj0577> I will delete my others then and keep it simple :D
<Saj0577> If I delete it off my home computer its still on ubuntu which i can pull it from is it not?
<Jazzva> You can pull your public key from keyserver, but not the private one. Private keys should stay only on your computers.
<Saj0577> okay when i go to delete it it says back it up first hum
<Saj0577> done exported it :D safe to deelte noe
<Saj0577> delete now*
<persia> Saj0577: If you've ever put a key on the keyserver, you want to revoke it before you delete it.  If it's just a local key, it doesn't matter as much.
<Saj0577> persia: thanks :)
<rzr> any news on Alpha 1 ?
<slangasek> well, did you see the news posted to u-d-a?
<Saj0577> you know when someone wants to open a email that you encrypted with gpg what pw you give them?
<Saj0577> PGP sorry ;)
<persia> Saj0577: Often no password at all.  The typical model is to send it encrypted to their GPG key, and they use their own passphrase to open it.
<Saj0577> O okay so in thunderbird how i tell it to send to there key ( i have engima installed)
<persia> Saj0577: It should automatically work, as long as their keys are already in your keyring.
<Saj0577> So just get them to send there public key to me and then i select it when sending. And then when they recieve it they decrypt it wiht there own pw for there key?
<persia> Well, that's not a real safe way to do it, but it works.  Safer is to get them to send you their fingerprint, download that key from the keyservers, make sure there is an acceptable chain of trust to the key, and then send it.  Their side is unchanged.
<Saj0577> Okay because what i was thinking is i dnt want ot have to EVER tell anyone my password
<persia> Saj0577: That's the point of Public Key Cryptography: you know the password to your secret key, and never have any reason to share.  You can give your public key to everyone, and they can encrypt things so that you need the secret key to unlock them (or a reasonable cluster and some time)
<Saj0577> Yeah okay. So if i export my public key send it to a friend and they import it in seahorse. then they can just select it send me an email i then decrypt it with my private key password. yeah?
<persia> Yes
<persia> (except for the bit about having previously taken steps to ensure that you have the right keys, via out-of-band communications)
<Saj0577> out-of-band communications?
<slangasek> if you have to encrypt your traffic because you don't trust the network that it's being sent across, then you also can't rely on that network to make sure you have the right key for your interlocutor
<persia> Yes.  Imagine if you will that I want to read your mail to your friend.  So I tap your telephone and packet lines, and can see everything you share in cleartext or voice.
<persia> Now, I can pretend to be your friend, and give you the wrong key, which means I get to read your mail.  As long as I resend it to your friend with the right key, they don't notice.
<persia> You need to exchange the keys in a way you know to be secure, or through a trust metric you believe to be secure to avoid this.
<Saj0577> Yeah. So basically send the public key to them via face-to-face etc?
<persia> Saj0577: For some vaues of send, yes.
<Saj0577> okay.
<persia> Google "keysigning" for more information that you need on the topic.
<Saj0577> persia: thanks for explanation :)
<Saj0577> And how secure are they do you think? How long it take people to crack them?
<persia> Saj0577: That you'll have to investigate elsewhere.
<Saj0577> okay :)
<Saj0577> persia: thanks.
<leleobhz> what i do if a package requires sse2 support/
<leleobhz> ?
<YokoZar> Do we support processors without sse2 support?
<leleobhz> must to... main is i386 oriented
<leleobhz> ;]
<persia> YokoZar: Yes.  I believe we currently support anything above a 486DX for i386.
<persia> (At least I think the 486sx doesn't work, but I haven't tested)
<leleobhz> persia: but what i do about packages thar require sse2?
<persia> leleobhz: detect presence at runtime, and have a backup mechanism that doesn't use sse2.
<leleobhz> and about arch?
<leleobhz> make it i686?
<persia> leleobhz: If you have a backup mechanism, use arch: any.  There is no arch: i686
<leleobhz> backup?
<YokoZar> persia: hmm that doesn't sound very nice.  Some packages shouldn't be allowed to install if they can't run (ie, no sse2 support)
<persia> Better if you make it flexible, as in many cases, one can also implement an altivec solution.
<leleobhz> hmmm
<YokoZar> Like we should have a sse2 virtual package that we can depend on which refuses to install on older processors
<persia> YokoZar: Why?  Let's look at mplayer: it has all sorts of routines that are improved by vector processing.  It detects what capabilities are available at runtime, and selects the best implementation of the routine for the processor on which it runs.
<persia> Doing it another way is a bug, as it makes porting exceedingly difficult.
<YokoZar> persia: I was more thinking of something like a game that had an -sse2 or greater processor as a minimum requirement
<persia> YokoZar: Such a requirement is a bug.  If you don't consider it that way, you make the game i386 only, which isn't interesting for many users.
<persia> It's not that hard to detect capabilities at runtime and use different backends.  Users without hardware optimisation will find it slow, and likely not play.
<persia> That's much better than a crash.
 * persia has spent time digging through MMX implementations to port to amd64, and doesn't want to see more.
<YokoZar> True, but maybe upstream didn't write it that way.  There's no point talking about it without a specific package in question though
<persia> YokoZar: Then it's an upstream bug.
<persia> YokoZar: I've encountered several packages that make the assumption that there is something present (MMX, SSE, altivec, etc.)  In every case I found, there were issues with porting to architectures other than the single one used upstream.
<persia> In the majority of those cases, a few hours was sufficient to find a way around the bug, and let it run.
<persia> Given that processor speed tends to increase fairly rapidly, that which benefits from hand-optimised assembly today may well run fine next year.
<leleobhz> persia: the problem is when the code is really optimized
<leleobhz> e.g. built for sse2
<persia> leleobhz: Understood.  In what language is the code written?
<leleobhz> C and C++
<leleobhz> but im not sure about optimizations
<leleobhz> im trying to find
<persia> leleobhz: Digging a bit, it looks like you'll get hit by http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16584 in the simple case.  I find a reference to the GCC maintainers saying not to use -msse2 except if you have runtime detection, and to only call that for a specific file (and not the one doing the runtime detection), but I can't find the relevant part of http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/
<ubottu> gcc.gnu.org bug 16584 in target "-msse2 also enabling -mfpmath=sse option causing illegal instruction errors" [Normal,Resolved: invalid]
<leleobhz> arhg... what guys of handbrake uses to program?? gnu/hurd???
<leleobhz> [12/06-22:43:16] <@jbrjake> i've been using linux since 1996 and i have yet to be convinced that the concept of the packaging system does more good than harm.
<leleobhz> [12/06-22:43:51] <@jbrjake> to me it demonstrates an ongoing atrophying of the linux user
<leleobhz> pkill -SIGAAAAARRRGGGHHHHH handbrake
<leleobhz> (sorry by the flood)
<ajmitch> because *real* linux users should compile everything from source!
<persia> No, *real* linux users write everything from source
<leleobhz> [12/06-22:46:31] < persia> No, *real* linux users write everything from source
<ajmitch> oh right
<leleobhz> agreed
 * persia takes off the gentoo-bashing gloves
<leleobhz> but like someone said on a magazine, i prefer a linux-dumb doctor for cut me instead a kernel-devel doctor ;]
<persia> leleobhz: Why?  How does it matter, as long as they are a good surgeon?
<leleobhz> persia: a good surgeon studies medicine... not package compilation
<leleobhz> persia: its a extremism, but is to say, im dont must to know how to compile a software
<leleobhz> (talking as a user)
<persia> Maybe.  I'd prefer someone who read at least a little outside their field: wide interests tend to correlate with intelligence which tends to correlate with competance.
<jml> Citation needed.
<persia> jml: "Personality, Self-Concept, Interests, and Intelligence: Which Construct Doesn't Fit?", Phillip L. Ackerman, Journal of Personality, Volume 65 Issue 2, June 1997 for the first
<YokoZar> Truthfully, the best system wouldn't have a packaging system at all, since every piece of software would run miraculously without installation
<persia> jml: And I have to defer to you on the second: I can find no study indicating that intelligence correlates with competance.
<persia> (such is complicated by the lack of a well-regarded definition of either "intelligence" or "competance")
<jml> persia: I'd imagine that such a thing would be an exercise in definition.
<persia> jml: Quite likely.
<jml> speaking of definitions, if you looked it up in a dictionary, it would be spelled "competence" ;)
<persia> See: this demonstrates my incompetence) and likely impacts my ability to search :)
<persia> With improved spelling, I can cite "Beyond IQ", Tomas Chamorro-Premuzic, 2007
<neurobuntu> anyone here familiar with buildbot?
<lifeless> some
<neurobuntu> lifeless would you recommend it for nightly builds, or should I just stick to shell scripts and cron?
<lifeless> its got a bit of a setup burden, but much nicer than shell and cron
<lifeless> I'd do it
<neurobuntu> ok thanks....  even for building debs nightly?
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> why are you not sending them to a ppa?
<neurobuntu-away> lifeless, ppa?
<neurobuntu-away> lifeless, we're going to be hosting internally
<mneptok> persia: i have a degree in medieval studies, advanced computer skills, and am a very good cook. but no one that knows me would claim my variegated interests denote intelligence and/or competence. :)
<swegner> So, I was just reading over the packaging "Getting Started" guide, and I am overwhelmed.
<lifeless> neurobuntu: oh :P well sure bb would work, it is agnostic to the task
<neurobuntu> lifeless, thanks
<swegner> I know that Ubuntu is always looking to get more people involved through packaging as MOTU's, but it seems like such a steep learning curve.  What about some sort of "apprenticeship" to get people started?
<crimsun> swegner: see mentorship
<persia> mneptok: I said "tend to",  There are always exceptions.
<swegner> crimsun: there's a mentorship program already?
<crimsun> swegner: has been.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<ScottK> TheMuso: The ping was about the discussion that immediately preceeded it about Universe SRU policy.
<mneptok> persia: i love that you consider me "special" :)
<mneptok> *eyebat*
<swegner> crimsun: great, thanks, I'm going to read a little bit  :)
<crimsun> swegner: (that link is available from one in this channel's topic.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing)
<TheMuso> ScottK: Oh.
<ScottK> TheMuso: It's stuff we need to talk about at our meeting next week.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Right. I'll have a good look before then.
<SpookyET> hi
<SpookyET> Does anyone use bzr-builddeb?
<lifeless> yes, it has users
<SpookyET> how do you use dpatch with it. You have to combine, make the patch, and have it copy the changes from build-area back to the project
<RAOF> SpookyET: Yup, pretty much.
 * RAOF looks forward to source package version 3.0 (bzr)
<SpookyET> RAOF: but, do you have to do that manually?
<RAOF> SpookyET: I export a source package, do my dpatching, and then copy the patches back into bzr, yes.
<RAOF> I think svn-buildpackage has an option to evecute commands in an exported source package, which would be nice for this.
<SpookyET> i was think like dpatch-edit. drop me into a shell. track changes to /debian. copy back on exit
<RAOF> Yup.  I think you can do that with svn-buildpackage.  I don't think it's implemented for bzr-builddeb.  It's also a bit sub-optimal to use a VCS to store patches, IMO, so the new source package formats will help there.
<SpookyET> i don't like centralised. i can't stand git because it's very complicated. I've been using mercurial. It's simple and easy to use, but no launchpad
<RAOF> You should love bzr then.
<RAOF> bzr-svn is pretty awesome, too, but you probably can't use it to interact with svn-buildpackage ;)
<lifeless> RAOF: you are doing it the hard way I think
<lifeless> RAOF: can you not just bzr-builddeb --uncommitted?
<nxvl> jcastro: i have just fill the UDS survey and left a comment for you :P
<RAOF> lifeless: I was imagining a tree-less (aka merge-mode) bzr usage, where the files you want to edit *don't exist*.  If I'm wrong, then just editing in place should be good.
<lifeless> RAOF: have you used bzr-buildden :P
<RAOF> lifeless: Yes.  In merge-mode, in fact :)
<SpookyET> den? or deb?
<lifeless> deb
<SpookyET> merge-mode is what i want
<SpookyET> upload to launchpad +junk
<lifeless> merge-mode is when your vcs tree is the debian/ subdir only
<RAOF> Yes.
<lifeless> I think thats a bad model, so don't use it
<lifeless> (it detaches changes to the source tree from the source tree)
<RAOF> I don't think it was too bad, but once everything accepts source-version 3, it'll be hopeless.
<lifeless> I still don't see what source-version 3 actually improves.
<lifeless> but perhaps I'm just missing the point
<RAOF> You get the whole bzr tree as your source package?
<RAOF> So 'apt-get source' gets exactly what you need to actually work on the package.
<ScottK> It's got quilt so its' got to be better.
<lifeless> ScottK: :)
<lifeless> RAOF: debget or whatever does that now
<RAOF> Hey, that's kinda cool.
<ScottK> RAOF: That's true for some definition of the word 'need'.
<RAOF> Does it work for Ubuntu?  It seems like it's going to be getting its information from packages.debian.org
<ScottK> Personally, I do fine with *-edit-patch.  Quilt seems overly complex and obscure.
<ScottK> I'm sure there are packages patched heavily enough to need it, but not so many.
<RAOF> I like *-edit-patch, yeah.  I like bzr, too.
<lifeless> RAOF: it should be getting it from the VCS-thing header
<lifeless> whats more cool, is bzr-search
<RAOF> Maybe you're looking at a different debget description, because the description I'm looking at says it doesn't use the local Packages file at all.
<lifeless> oh, well bugger files etc
<ScottK> I'm sure bzr is wonderful and all that, but until I encounter it outside Ubuntu, it's n+1 VCS to try and learn and my brain is already full.
<lifeless> ScottK: hack on any number of projects these days and you'll encounterit
<lifeless> ScottK: gnome are considering it, I hear KDE are too, emacs is moving to it, mailman has etc,etc,etc
<ScottK> lifeless: I'm sure.  I just haven't hit it yet.
<jml> it's also substantially less difficult to learn than, say, CVS.
<lifeless> jml: scott does have a fair point
<ScottK> Except for that fact that I already know CVS so the learning curve there is pretty minimal.
<lifeless> ScottK: I would encourage you to forget svn and learn bzr instead. Space-for-space tradeoff its a win IMO
<lifeless> :)
<ScottK> Except I have to use svn most every day.  I can't forget it yet.
<lifeless> yes, you can through the magic of bzr-svn
<lifeless> :)
<jml> lifeless: I wasn't suggesting otherwise.
 * RAOF <3 bzr-svn
<ScottK> lifeless: If I go check out the Debian Python Modules Team svn (with 200 + debian dirs in it) with bzr=svn instead of svn, how much longer is it going to take me to download it and then to update it?
<RAOF> Substantially longer for the first branch, not much longer for subsequent updates.
<lifeless> ScottK: you can do a checkout using bzr, I understand that like that its roughly comparable
<lifeless> RAOF: or ^
<RAOF> Oh, yeah.  I always forget that you can checkout ;)
<ScottK> OK.  I might try that at some point.
<lifeless> ScottK: on a side note thats a good question that many folk will answer. I will at some point get a solid canned response for it
<lifeless> s/answer/ask/
 * ScottK just recalls nearly dieing of old age the last time he tried to check out a Kubuntu debian dir off LP using bzr.
<uniscrip1> quick question. Should dependencies only needed for make check to be listed as build dependencies in debian/control?
<persia> uniscrip1: If you are running make check at build-time, yes.
<uniscrip1> ah, yes, good answer. thanks
<SpookyET> I wonder why mercurial is not very popular
<SpookyET> git and bzr are
<RAOF> Aren't mozilla using mercurial?
<RAOF> Git has the advantage of a hugly high-profile development team and posterchild use-case.  Bzr has the advantage of being the best thing since sliced bread.
<SpookyET> mercurial is good
<SpookyET> git's interface sucks
<persia> Hg is used in a number of places, and supports most workflows for any of svn, bzr, or git relatively cleanly.
<pwnguin> wow, debian eclipse carries a ton of patches
<RAOF> SpookyET: Preaching to the choir, man.
<SpookyET> one thing i have not see in any of these is the ability to commit huge files
<lifeless> persia: if by 'most workflows' you mean 2
<SpookyET> the only one i know is Adobe VersionCue, which can handle big photoshop files
<persia> lifeless: ?
<lifeless> SpookyET: we know _how_ to in bzr, just need someone to do it and find where the exceptions are raised
<lifeless> SpookyET: its basically 'put in a stream code path adjacent to the fast-all-bytes code paths'
<lifeless> persia: hg does not support _most_ workflows of svn, bzr or git. most of git yes, but not svn or bzr
<SpookyET> lifeless: diff is still a problem
<SpookyET> if only diff had plugins for different kinds of binary files
<lifeless> SpookyET: yes, though its possible to write a tape-diff, I don't think anyone has
<lifeless> our diff has plugins
<persia> lifeless: Oh.  I only know a couple svn workflows, for which Hg worked.  I admit that I've not found any bzr workflows that work for me.
<persia> (not a criticism of bzr, so much as an indication of how much time I've spent with it)
<lifeless> persia: you found a centralised workflow for hg
<lifeless> ?
<persia> lifeless: No.  My experience with Hg is similar in volume to that with bzr.  In the Hg case, I was able to use svn or git workflows (depending on the project documentation).  With bzr, I generally have to try several times to get a branch that looks right (with associated multiple branching over the network)
<StevenK> persia: Geh? bzr branch <> doesn't Just Work? It does for me.
<lifeless> persia: well, svn workflows _are centralised_ - not finding a centralised workflow means you were not using hg as you would svn :)
<persia> StevenK: That works fine to get the code.  It's getting a patch in and marked correctly that frustrates me.
<lifeless> persia: 'commit' ?
<StevenK> persia: bzr commit -m "" && bzr push ?
<wgrant> bzr bind!
<persia> lifeless: That's what the documentation says.
<lifeless> persia: I would love it if you could pop into #bzr some point and spend some time showing us what is confusing
<persia> StevenK: Given what tends to be missing when I bzr commit, I don't think && is the right operator there.
<persia> lifeless: If you really want.  I suspect it's just that I've not read enough documentation.
<lifeless> persia: that implies not enough guidance in the ui/'bzr help X'
<lifeless> persia: requiring reading of documentation *is a bug* imo
<persia> lifeless: OK.  I'll come by some day then.  Lessons are always appreciated (but bzr help is likely to also be helpful)
<StevenK> persia: What is missing when you bzr commit?
<persia> StevenK: Sometimes new files.  Sometimes the history doesn't look right.  Sometimes bzr diff doesn't generate what I expect.
<wgrant> You need to bzr add new files.
 * persia is a reluctant VCS user, which is likely part of the problem.
<StevenK> I've found I can treat a bound bzr branch like svn, and it works. An unbound branch is also like svn, except that update is pull, and commit is commit and push
<persia> wgrant: Yes.
<wgrant> StevenK: Indeed, it's rather like SVN for centralised stuff like that.
<persia> wgrant: Sometimes it's knowing which files I want.
<wgrant> Almost identical.
<wgrant> persia: bzr status should give you a good indication.
<StevenK> wgrant: Which is good, because it means less changes to remember
<persia> StevenK: Yes, bound branches are almost identical to SVN, although they seem to be confused if you don't update them for a while.
<wgrant> Confused?
<persia> wgrant: Yep.  bzr status is one of the things I tend to run between commit and push.
<wgrant> That sounds more like git with its regularly history modification.
<StevenK> I have the seeds checked out as bound, and it hasn't gotten confused.
<persia> wgrant: Well, at least in some cases I've found it easier to delete a local branch and re-checkout rather than updating the local branch when there were foreign updates.
<StevenK> persia: Between commit and push is too late, run bzr status before commit
<wgrant> persia: Wow. I've never had to do that.
 * persia again suspects these aren't issues with bzr
<wgrant> persia: status shows you what will be committed when you run commit.
<wgrant> The diff will also empty once you run commit.
<wgrant> As there are no uncommitted changes.
<StevenK> Since diff and commit operate on the local branch
<StevenK> (If it's unbound)
<persia> Right.  Nevermind.  I'll go read some documentation, and maybe visit #bzr for a lesson later, when I've a set of my issues in front of me, rather than the nice clean results of dpkg-source
<wgrant> I found bzr very, very easy to use when I first tried it, though I had been using svn for years prior.
<wgrant> The migration was most painless.
<StevenK> Agreed, same for me.
<StevenK> I'd been forced by $WORK to use and admin cvs, which I found a *horrible* pain
<jml> wgrant: I found it took a while to unlearn misconceptions about branching that I learned from SVN.
<StevenK> jml: Only because svn's merging is ... interesting
<jml> wgrant: not that long once I started actually _using_ Bazaar, I'll grant you.
<jml> StevenK: yeah.
<RAOF> StevenK: Again.  Svn _has_ merging? :)
<StevenK> Haha
<StevenK> RAOF: Commonly done in wetware
<jml> StevenK: Twisted does branch-based development with Subversion. We have special tools & processes to work around Subversion.
<RAOF> Right.  svn spend-a-day.
<SpookyET> can you push an entire repo with bzr onto launchpad?
<RAOF> You mean a bunch of branches?
<SpookyET> my ppa
<leleobhz> 3'clock and ive thinked in use for i in `find ~ -iname "*sources.changes*"`; do dput ppa $i; one
 * leleobhz needs a bed
<dholbach> good morning
<lifeless> garh
<lifeless> choose two channels. ONLY
<leleobhz> my makefile have no install target
<leleobhz> how can i override make install?
<SpookyET> So, is it possible to upload my local bzr repository of my PPA to launchpad?
<lifeless> SpookyET: ppa's want source packages, bzr build-deb can make a source package from your bzr tree for you
<lifeless> SpookyET: you can up load the bzr tree to bazaar.launchpad.net too, of course
<SpookyET> yeah, i want to upload the tree
<SpookyET> bzr push gives me an error
<lifeless> SpookyET: if you paste the error somewhere, people can help
<SpookyET> it says that my repo is not a branch
<lifeless> !paste
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<lifeless> copy and paste it to that website
<lifeless> show us the url
<geser> good morning
<SpookyET> lifeless: http://paste2.org/p/38702
<lifeless> SpookyET: you haven't created a bzr branch yet.
<lifeless> where is the MOTU documentation for this ? RAOF ? Anyone?
<lifeless> SpookyET: uhm, what bzr commands *have* you run ?
<SpookyET> lifeless: repo-init and everything in the subdirs except tarballs and build-area is bzr init
<lifeless> then you can push each individual subdir
<lifeless> 'repository' is _just_ a storage area, it has no semantic value
<persia> lifeless: There isn't any MOTU documentation on managing packages with bzr.  For the majority of packages in universe, it's not worth the bother of setting up a repo when the package will never be touched again (we'll sync with Debian next time).
<lifeless> *everything* is in terms of branches or trees
<SpookyET> lifeless: there is a .bzr dir there
<lifeless> SpookyET: that has nothing to do with what I said
<lifeless> SpookyET: that just means there is a .bzr dir
<lifeless> persia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrMaintainerHowto?highlight=(bzr)
<persia> lifeless: Ah, cool.  That wasn't there last time I read the wiki.
<lifeless> persia: heh, it is a year or so old I think
<persia> lifeless: Right.  I read the entire wiki from mid April to late May last year, based on the pagelist as of early April.  I don't know when I'll next have six weeks to repeat that.
<lifeless> MEEP
<lifeless> there are > 32K pages
<persia> There were only about 25K pages then.
<lifeless> 'only'
<persia> Lots of them are only a couple lines long, or redirectls, which makes it easier.
<SpookyET> i'm trying to push. it ain't working
<lifeless> whats your latency to London?
<lifeless> SpookyET: again, show the error
<SpookyET> ll
<lifeless> SpookyET: 'it does not work' is useless as feedback
<SpookyET> lifeless: http://paste2.org/p/38704
<lifeless> SpookyET: each needs its own valud url - in launchpad branches are at USER/PRODUCT/BRANCHNAME
<lifeless> you are trying to put them at USER?PRODUCT/ppa/BRANCHNAME
<lifeless> this will fail
<SpookyET> +junk
<lifeless> yes thats your PRODUCT field
<lifeless> you have one path element too many
<SpookyET> lifeless: i thought i could upload my local repo to /ppa
<lifeless> again, bzr is focused on _branches_
<lifeless> you can upload one branch to bazaar.launchpad.net/~spookyet/+junk/ppa
<lifeless> another to bazaar.launchpad.net/~spookyet/+junk/differentname
<lifeless> etc
<RAOF> Ah, C++. your compile errors fill me with joy: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/19806/
<SpookyET> can you delete a branch from launchpad if you uploaded crap?
<StevenK> SpookyET: Are you trying to use bzr to upload to your ppa?
<SpookyET> StevenK: no. I'm just trying to use bzr and bzr-buildpackage to keep track of /debian
<SpookyET> http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?tt=url&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.debianperu.org%2Fdoku.php%3Fid%3Dtutoriales%3Abzr-builddeb&lp=es_en&.intl=us&fr=moz2
<SpookyET> I also want to upload the stuff to launchpad
<SpookyET> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrBuildpackage
<lifeless> SpookyET: yes you can delete  a branch (as long it is not referenced from bugs etc)
<SpookyET> yeah i noticed.
<\sh> moins
<Hobbsee_> hey \sh
<elmargol> I tried to get a shell after pbuilder fails :/ and somehow it does not work :/ it says no E scripts found :(
<Hobbsee_> elmargol: that's not an error, is it?
<elmargol> Thats not copy and paste yes
<Hobbsee_> it should still have dropped you into a shell anyway...
<Hobbsee_> (are you sure it didn't?)
<elmargol> yes
<elmargol> W: no hooks of type E found -- ignoring
<\sh> woohsaa...bug #239140 confirmed/wishlisted...rocking
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239140 in soyuz "[Wishlist] Live Build Logfile View " [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239140
<\sh> let's see when it'll be implemented
<DktrKranz2> Bug 133393 ships a NEW source package (fuzzyocr3 against fuzzyocr in the archives), shouldn't we manage it in REVU instead?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 133393 in fuzzyocr "fuzzyocr 2.3b is deprecated" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133393
<persia> DktrKranz2: Depends on how we want to manage the transition.
<persia> If we can NBS it quickly, better to use fuzzyocr as the source package, and ship a fuzzyocr3 binary.  If we can't, then maybe parallel packages make sense (I'm personally opposed to parallel packages).
<DktrKranz2> persia: debian maintainer chose parallel packages approach.
<DktrKranz2> should we diverge from debian this way? we won't be able to come back easily
<persia> DktrKranz2: We should follow Debian whereever possible for transitions.
<persia> If we don't follow Debian, we'll have to transition twice, once to vary, and once to get back (even if it ends up being the same code with a different name, it's still a transition).
<DktrKranz2> Probably old package will be removed once new upstream will be pushed to unstable, we should do the same.
<DktrKranz2> I'm not comfortable to push a NEW package without a second review, though
<persia> Well, we oughtn't remove the old package until the transition is complete, but otherwise, yes.
<persia> Isn't it just a sync from experimental?  the DD and you make two reviewers.
<DktrKranz2> Indeed, I can ask reporter to request a sync from experimental
<DktrKranz2> (and to adjust bug report accordingly)
<persia> DktrKranz2: Better to just retitle/test yourself, and push to the archive admins, rather than bouncing back off the reporter (unless you disagree).
<DktrKranz2> persia: sounds good. I need to review package a bit because I'm not familiar with it and to see if has conflicts with current version in Intrepid. I'll assign it to me.
<persia> DktrKranz2: I usually just take those things as sync sponsoring requests.  Users who push a lot tend to see the changes, and follow the proper guidelines next time.  Users who only do one go away happy.
<huats> morning everyone
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<huats> hey sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi huats
<james_w> dholbach: nice catch on the sync request FTBFS, should I invalidate the request and wait for Debian to fix the bug, or let it sync and fail, and then let the autosync take care of getting the fixed version?
<dholbach> james_w: I suppose it's going to be in incoming in a bit
<james_w> dholbach: I'm not sure I understand
<dholbach> james_w: you could invalidate it for now and reopen once it's been fixed in incoming
<james_w> ah, ok, thanks.
<devfil> someone have an amd64 with a virtual machine to test a package?
<james_w> dholbach: too slow :-)
<RainCT> It I want to get an SRU into Hardy and Gutsy can I just give it version number -0ubuntu2 and -0ubuntu2~gutsy (Intrepid has a newer upstream version)?
<DktrKranz2> RainCT: have hardy and gutsy packages the same version number?
<DktrKranz2> RainCT: you can use -0ubuntu1.8.04 (for hardy) and -0ubuntu1.7.10 (for gutsy), but can you indicate which package are you looking at, just to be sure?
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: Yes, they have the same. The package is youtranslate.
<DktrKranz2> RainCT: versioning scheme I gave you is correct. You can use it :)
<DktrKranz2>  1.1.9-0ubuntu1.8.04 AndyP 1.1.9-0ubuntu1.7.10
<RainCT> OK, thanks :)
<DktrKranz2> de nada
<gaspa> DktrKranz2: ehy ;), can we publish in some way my nbs page?
<DktrKranz2> gaspa: ask some ubuntuwire admins, wgrant maybe
<gaspa> l
<gaspa> ok
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: Uhm.. Do you see it as viable to SRU the package from Intrepid completly into Hardy? :P
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: because beside being unusable the package is FTBFS so beside switching to cdbs the changes would be mostly the same
<DktrKranz2> RainCT: is it installable in hardy and gutsy?
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: installable, yes, but it won't do anything
<DktrKranz2> why? broken package?
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: it parses the HTML from some webpages, but they all changed since it was released
<DktrKranz2> parse data from external websites? (such youtube related softwares?)
 * DktrKranz2 moves to lunch now
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: yes, it parses Google Translate, Babel Fish and some other sites
<DktrKranz2> RainCT: mind discussing about it in a couple of hours?
<RainCT> (the service to use can be switched in a config dialog, but any of the available options works anymore :P)
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: sure, enjoy your meal :)
<DktrKranz2> thanks, C U
<gaspa> wgrant: how could that page (http://iogaspa.altervista.org/nbs/reversenbs.xml) linked in ubuntuwire ?
<emgent> heya
<sebner> hoi emgent
<sebner> emgent: thanks for your comment ^^ but I know that the new patch in necessary ;) I had connection problems yesterday. did norsetto say anything after I quit?
<emgent> no
<elmargol> Can someone give me a hand please? I try for hours to package the new gnunet-gtk release. Somehow I get a mkdir: cannot create directory "/usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable": Permission denied if I build it inside pbuilder
<\sh> elmargol: there is a $DESTDIR missing or the debian/rules is wrong
<elmargol> They use this script https://gnunet.org/svn/gnunet-gtk/pixmaps/icons/icon-theme-installer
<elmargol> \sh, I think this too... I just can't find the right place :/
<\sh> elmargol: check if ${INSTALL_DEST_DIR} is set inside the script...if not this will fail
<\sh> elmargol: install_dir=${INSTALL_DEST_DIR}${INSTALL_BASE_DIR}/$size/$category
<\sh> $($MKINSTALLDIRS_EXEC $install_dir) || {
<\sh> 			echo "Failed to create directory $install_dir"
<\sh> you see...when $INSTALL_DEST_DIR != $DESTDIR from make then $install_dir only ${INSTALL_BASE_DIR}/....
<\sh> oh what an english
<\sh> and what pseudocode ,;)
 * sebner winks \sh \o/
<elmargol> \sh, sorry I think my english is to bad to understand this :/
<elmargol> install_icon_exec=${top_srcdir}/pixmaps/icons/icon-theme-installer -t ${theme} -s ${srcdir} -b ${themedir} -m "${mkinstalldirs}" -x "${INSTALL_DATA}" <- thats the makefile
<elmargol> you say I have to add -d?
<porthose> is it just my machine or is http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/   not working?
<jpds> porthose: I think that site is in the process of being moved to a new host.
<porthose> aaahhh  K thx :)
<\sh> elmargol: yes...with ${DESTDIR} var from make
<jpds> porthose: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-May/025370.html and later messages
<elmargol> \sh, thx it works now
<\sh> elmargol: cool :)
<elmargol> I do some more cleanup and upload it to my ppa...
<porthose> jpds: :'(
 * jpds hugs porthose 
<jpds> porthose: there there, it's not the end of the world
 * laga pulls out his pocket doomsday device
<laga> sure?
<DktrKranz2> RainCT: back.
<jpds> laga: ...yet
<leleobhz> have some way to search filenames in package via aptitude?
<leleobhz> or apt-cache
<leleobhz> packages.ubuntu.com is too slow
<laga> use apt-file
<Pici> !info apt-file
<ubottu> apt-file (source: apt-file): APT package searching utility -- command-line interface. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.1.0 (hardy), package size 16 kB, installed size 120 kB
<leleobhz> laga: but it ill search only in installed packages or consult all packages database?
<Pici> leleobhz: It will search everything
<Pici> make sure you sudo apt-file update before you use it
<leleobhz> ok
<leleobhz> heh, it clains this to me now
<leleobhz> another, have some issue with packages.ubuntu?
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: ok. so, what do you think?
<DktrKranz2> RainCT: if package is not working anymore, it's definitely SRU-worty, could you isolate a patch for that issue?
<jpds> leleobhz: it's down.
<leleobhz> jpds: oh...
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: that's what I was saying before; additionally of not working anymore, its  FTBFS and needs an additional patch for this in Hardy
<jpds> leleobhz: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-May/025370.html
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: so I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to just pull the version from Intrepid there as there wouldn't be much difference
<leleobhz> jpds: wait a minute. packages.ubuntu arent sponsored by canonical?
<cody-somerville> leleobhz, not currently
<DktrKranz2> RainCT: if changes introduced are required to have a working package, I guess it's ok, but let's check deltas :)
<jpds> leleobhz: read the later messages
<leleobhz> reading
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: (those additional changes would be mainly the new upstream version -not sure what's new but it isn't much, upstream calls it a -maintenance release'- and the addition of a .desktop file and icons for the menu)
<DktrKranz2> I think they don't harm stable releases
<RainCT> good :)
<DktrKranz2> if the only differences between a SRU debdiff and a backport from intrepid are .desktop files ne icons, I think it's perfectly safe.
<jpds> leleobhz, porthose: ok, I can confirm that it's being moved to a canonical machine.
<leleobhz> jpds: now?
<RainCT> DktrKranz2: great, I'll ping you when I've filed the report
<DktrKranz2> RainCT: thanks
<jpds> leleobhz: by what I've been told, yes.
<leleobhz> jpds: its really good
<Ng> leleobhz: packages.ubuntu.com should be back up and running faster now
<Ng> (subject to your DNS updating)
<leleobhz> Ng: /etc/hosts and dig exists for this ;]
<Ng> 91.189.94.219 is the new IP
<Laney> Ng: Will it track intrepid properly now?
<leleobhz> registering
<leleobhz> Ng: wow!
<Ng> it'll be faster when yahoo and msn stop crawling it
<leleobhz> Ng: its really fast comparing than yesterday
<Ng> good good
<jpds> Ng: smashing!
<leleobhz> Ng: congrats, very fast
<lukehasnoname> Is Canonical hosting now?
<jpds> lukehasnoname: yeah
<lukehasnoname> Running RHEL 5.2?
<nhandler> I don't know if anyone here is interested, but I am going to be giving a lesson on merging a package from Debian in ##MergeAndSync in about an hour (15:00 GMT). Anyone who is interested is welcome to attend.
<james_w> nhandler: there is #ubuntu-classroom that is usually used for this sort of thing
<bddebian> Heya gang
<nhandler> james_w, I wasn't sure what I needed to do to be able to hold a lesson in #ubuntu-classroom. That is why I am holding it in a new room.
<james_w> nhandler: not a lot, there's very few sessions there, so there is little chance of clashing.
<james_w> nhandler: thanks for doing it though.
<nhandler> james_w, Ok, I'll keep that in mind for next time.
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<i4x> hugs!!
<lukehasnoname> omg why doesn't everyone use aptitude
<ScottK> Because sometimes its solution is to want to remove my entire desktop.
<sebner> nhandler: asking wouldn't be bad if you do others merges ;) And who uploaded it (streamtuner)? also it's useless to recommend xmms since it's not in the repo anymore
<DktrKranz2> sebner: fear to remain mergeless? :)
<sebner> ScottK, go and fetch your stick to beat DktrKranz2 :P
 * DktrKranz2 hides
 * ScottK doesn't have the stick.  That's someone else whom I would not presume to usurp.
<jpds> sebner: nein, du denkst Hobbsee
<sebner> jpds: right
<sebner> ScottK: then fetch your authority thing ^^
<nhandler> sebner, I'll try to ask from now on. I am not sure who uploaded streamtuner. They didn't leave a comment, and they never assigned the bug to them. And I was not aware that xmms wasn't in the repo. It is also only a suggests in the package
<DktrKranz2> sebner: "Silence, I kill you!" (cit. Achmed) :)
<ScottK> nhandler: It's not a hard and fast rule that you are required to ask, but it's generally considered polite and it's often useful.
<sebner> nhandler: no it's recommends but np
<sebner> ScottK: \o/
<sebner> DktrKranz2: hehe
<Hobbsee>  -- Stefan Ebner <hellboy195@gmail.com>  Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:34:19 +0100
<Hobbsee> apparently
<sebner> Hobbsee: That's me =)
<Hobbsee> ah
<sebner> DktrKranz2: did you upload it?
<Hobbsee> sebner: check the signature on the changes file.
<sebner> Hobbsee with the stick is now here \o/
<nhandler> ScottK, I originally tried asking everyone before doing a merge. The issue was, the majority of them never replied to the emails I sent. Maybe I'll try IRC next time.
<ScottK> nhandler: Or you can ask here if someone is still active.  Generally someone will know.
<nhandler> ScottK, I'll keep that in mind
<sebner> maybe magic Hobbsee can tell me where I can find that xD
<lukehasnoname> Any links or details on the downside of Aptitude?
<DktrKranz2> sebner: which one? streamtuner?
<Hobbsee> it was uploaded by they who had the key of ID 0EADC245
<sebner> DktrKranz2: yep
<DktrKranz2> dunno
<Hobbsee> which, unfortuantely, is now revoked.
<sebner> Hobbsee: It seems they fear my revenge ^^
<sebner> ScottK: anything new about our friend courier?
<Hobbsee> sebner: it was a DSA key.
<sebner> Hobbsee: that means?
 * sistpoty|work has a cache, and it says RainCT
<Hobbsee> sebner: you've forgotten so soon?
<jpds> sebner: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/streamtuner/0.99.99-13ubuntu1
<ScottK> lukehasnoname: No, but generally I find it more satisfying to let apt do it's best and then work out the rest myself.  Aptitude will try very hard to get you to 'a' solution, but not necessarily the one I would pick.
<ScottK> sebner: Not forgotten, but not gotten to.
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: ah, thankyou, i didn't have a cache, and i can't seem to find a way to search expired keys
<sebner> ScottK: k ^^
<ScottK> sebner: I did 2 SRUs yesterday.  I have hopes for courier tonight.
<sebner> jpds: ah ^^
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: actually I just tried gpg --list-keys (w.o. a recv-key and w.o. having used gpg on this box for some time)
<sebner> Hobbsee: hm?
<Hobbsee> sebner: clearly, you've forgotten the debian ssh key stuff.  it's likely that all dsa keys got regenerated as a precaution, whether gpg or ssh.
<sebner> Hobbsee: ah. I'm not much in that stuff
<jpds> Hobbsee: gpg doesn't use libssl, thus not affected
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: oh, interesting, recv-keys will still work.
<Hobbsee> jpds: you underestimate paranoia, particularly when the message goes out that *all* dsa keys are compromised.
<geser> Hobbsee: where did you find that 0x0EADC245 got revoked?
<jpds> Hobbsee: well.. I use RSA for signing.
<sebner> Hobbsee: by the way. I have 3 syncs and they couldn't be synced because the orig.tar.gz tarballs. I was never in this situation before so ... what to do?
<geser> sebner: fake-sync
<DktrKranz2> sebner: fakesync \o/
<sebner> xD
<Hobbsee> geser: i guessed, as the keyserver said it couldn't find it.
<Festor> I have a question about PPA
<Festor> 	
<Festor> Can I use the same orig.tar for several packages of the same program in different versions of Ubuntu?
<geser> Hobbsee: keyserver never delete keys, not even revoked ones
<sebner> DktrKranz2: I think I just did one with your help but can't remember ^^
 * DktrKranz2 too
<geser> sebner: take the Ubuntu .orig.tar.gz, apply the Debian diff.gz, add a changelog entry for the fakesync, testbuild, upload :)
<ScottK> Festor: PPA questions are best asked in #launchpad
<sebner> geser: thanks for this highspeed tutorial ^^
<Hobbsee> geser: can't they stop you from getting th ekeys?
 * sebner likes gedit. It segfault exactly on every second start ^^
<sebner> geser: but is it then again -1ubuntu1?
<DktrKranz2> sebner: -Xbuild1 for fakesyncs
<jpds> sebner: vim ftw
<sebner> DktrKranz2: thanks
<sebner> jpds: hehe
<SpookyET> hi
<SpookyET> I have a little problem. nothing is put in /debian/foo/usr/bin, but I see the stuff inn /debian/tmp/usr/bin
<sebner> DktrKranz2: and then I upload the .diff.gz?
<sebner> DktrKranz2: no wait, what should I upload then? ^^
<DktrKranz2> sebner: a debdiff against current ubuntu version and your candidate revision
<sebner> DktrKranz2: *nice*
<leleobhz> have someway to override cdbs install command?
<leleobhz> ive used install/handbrake::
<leleobhz> but it still trying to run make install
<ScottK> Switching to debhelper would be one way.
<leleobhz> ScottK: but has no override for this?
<ScottK> leleobhz: I'm sure there is.  I just don't know what it is.
<ScottK> I find that for standard cases where CDBS just does the right thing, it's pretty decent.
<ScottK> Once you start needing to figure a bunch of over-rides and changes, debhelper is more transparent and easier to understand.
<ScottK> The black magic is good when it's working, but when it doesn't then it's really hard to follow.
<sebner> DktrKranz2: if the change of the maintainer also necessary?
<DktrKranz2> ni
<DktrKranz2> *no
<sebner> ah just saw some fakesyncs with that change
<DktrKranz2> if you use buildX, it's not required
<ScottK> sebner: Once you make a real change like the maintainer change, it's not a fakesync anymore.  It's a merge.
<sebner> ScottK: kk
<sebner> DktrKranz2: would you like to look at my debdiff?
<DktrKranz2> sebner: if you have half an hour... I have to finish other stuffs before :(
<sebner> DktrKranz2: np. it doesn't hurry
<freeflying> persia: will you merge fbreader?
<DktrKranz2> sebner: if you want to look at something *complex* crystalspace is something you can look at :D
<sebner> DktrKranz2: why?
<DktrKranz2> it seems FUBAR, right now
<sebner> lol
<DktrKranz2> it should me remerged, but needs much love
<DktrKranz2> and it's a huuuuge one
<sebner> DktrKranz2: I haven't got the time. I should learn for school instead of doing fakesyncs xD
<geser> Hobbsee: no, as you might want the revoked key to verify an old signature generated before the key got revoked
<DktrKranz2> sebner: "go scool and do your homework now" (cit. Achmed)
<geser> Hobbsee: and you might want to fetch the revoked key so you local copy gets update (also marked as revoked)
<Hobbsee> geser: verify won't do that?
<Hobbsee> right, yeah
<sebner> DktrKranz2: yeah, maybe later ^^
 * ScottK made a key while at UDS, added it to LP, used it, and then removed and revoked it before returning due to silly customs rules in his country.
<DktrKranz2> ScottK: again with crypto stuff?
<DktrKranz2> wasn't over?
<ScottK> Just that US Customs claims a right to, without showing any cause, make a copy of any electronic media crossing the border.
<geser> ScottK: the US customs check for gpg keys?
<ScottK> They may take a copy of your whole hard drive.
<DktrKranz2> and I guess Customs aren't entitled to have GPG private keys in their database :/
<geser> that would be a reason to create a cryptfs
<SpookyET> can anyone help ?
<geser> or do you have to deliver also the password to decrypt it?
<sebner> geser: btw, we need to patch evolution-sharp to build with the new evolution (unstable) stuff
<ScottK> geser: Even if I had a cryptfs, I don't think I would assume they couldn't break it if they cared to and would revoke the key anyway.
<ScottK> So it's easier just not to carry it.
<geser> true
 * geser wonders how the US custom will copy my OpenPGP card
<geser> sebner: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/evolution-sharp/0.17/evolution-sharp-0.17.3.news
<sebner> geser: xD
<sebner> geser: I'm just not up to date
<geser> sebner: me neither, but I remember it from last time when I looked at the package
<sebner> geser: cool, so just waiting for debian, waiting for the sync and then BAMMMMM! working =)
<\sh> the next UDS will be in the US?
<ScottK> That would seem to be the normal cycle.
<pwnguin> hurray
 * ScottK notes that is not a promise.
<\sh> ScottK: let's wish for canada
<pwnguin> yes, lets pick something inconienent for everyone
<laga> well, US travel regulations are ridiculous
<pwnguin> true
<\sh> pwnguin: hmm? canada is more a free country regarding european guests...
<\sh> and not only for europeans...I wonder how arabs are being dealt with in the US
<laga> heh. "so, you develop free software? damn communist terrorists"
<\sh> anyways...time to commit my changes...and leave for home...cu later
<pwnguin> hah
<pwnguin> free software is the new capitalism
<pwnguin> gpl is a trade in kind. bsd is charity ;)
<achadwick> Yebbut with the commons as the beneficiary in both cases :)
<ScottK> Not necessarily with bsd.
<ScottK> It depends on what your goal is.
<DRebellion> Could someone spare a moment to take a look at my package in REVU? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=monkeystudio ? Thanks :)
<Lutin> does the 'install recommends by default' apply to buildds too ?
<james_w> Lutin: no
<Lutin> james_w: thanks
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Couldn't the package "db4.6" be synced to Inrepid? The Ubuntu package (atm db4.4) does not have Ubuntu changes in Intrepid.
<james_w> Kopfgeldjaeger: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/db/+bug/239801
<james_w> is that what you wanted/
<ubottu> james_w: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/239801/+text)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> that's why asked here. i saw the bug report
<ScottK> Kopfgeldjaeger: We have several db packages, so mixing 4.4 and 4.6 doesn't make sense.
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<Kopfgeldjaeger> yes, but that is no problem with syncing db4.6 i guess? i mean, i didnt want to merge it into db4.4 ;)
<ScottK> db4.6 will go in Main, so it's really not a worry of ours, but there is no problem with it.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok
<ScottK> There is a db package that tracks the latest version (now 4.7)
<ScottK> and then there are version specific packages
<ScottK> Now that db has moved to 4.7, we need to get a db4.6 package.
<ScottK> BTW, migrating packages from older db versions is good work to be doing so we can get them out of the archive.
<jonnymind> Hello; How can I upgrade from hardy to devel intrepid?
<pwnguin> jonnymind: ask in #ubuntu+1
<jonnymind> thanks
<leleobhz> W: handbrake source: patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff contrib/config.jam
<leleobhz> this warning can pass in package?
<leleobhz> because the build system modify these values
<kees> RainCT: any ETA on the pbuilder-dist rewrite?  I'd like to upload ubuntu-dev-tools
<kees> RainCT: better yet, can you keep the rewrite in a separate bzr branch?
<Kopfgeldjaeger2> Can I set a bug to "Fix released" when a package has been auto-synced into Intrepid (the bug was about a merge)?
<Kopfgeldjaeger2> (there was no ubuntu package before the sync)
<leleobhz> RainCT: can you turn a little you attention to http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uniconvertor
<leleobhz> this and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=handbrake
<leleobhz> superm1: ping?
<mario_limonciell> leleobhz, heyo.  i'll check into it after work
<mario_limonciell> leleobhz, get jdong to look too
<mario_limonciell> he likes crack
<leleobhz> mario_limonciell: nice
<directhex> it's a superm1!
<leleobhz> the second is a little more important because have thing to do
<leleobhz> mario_limonciell: the problem i need to solve in package its only this:
<leleobhz> W: handbrake source: patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff contrib/config.jam
<leleobhz> W: handbrake source: patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff libhb/.depend
<mario_limonciell> hi directhex :)
<leleobhz> and i dont know how to handle with it
<mario_limonciell> well you add a patch system
<mario_limonciell> like dpatch, or simplepatchsys
<leleobhz> mario_limonciell: yeap. because makefile have no install target
<leleobhz> mario_limonciell: but i dont know why the compilation program does this
<mario_limonciell> oh its gets created when you do make clean?
<mario_limonciell> or at some stage not caused directly by your actions
<leleobhz> yeap
<mario_limonciell> then you need to add an extra clean step to your rules file
<mario_limonciell> to remove stuff that the package's makefile decides to leave
<leleobhz> i can safelly remove these files?
<mario_limonciell> well if they are generated at build time
<mario_limonciell> yes
<mario_limonciell> which is what it sounds like since you didn't make them
<directhex> mario_limonciell, got my first package into main \o/
<mario_limonciell> ooooh directhex
<mario_limonciell> what package?
<directhex> mario_limonciell, mono
<directhex> mario_limonciell, it was a bit... in need of merging
<mario_limonciell> directhex, i could see that.  complicated merges are what we call "fun" though
<mario_limonciell> leleobhz, however... if those files are "modified" by the makefile of the package, that's different
<mario_limonciell> so you should see whether they end up getting "added" or "modified"
<leleobhz> mario_limonciell: i think its files are created by jam
<mario_limonciell> leleobhz, yeah then just add a clean step in debian/rules to take care of them
<leleobhz> mario_limonciell: nice
<leleobhz> mario_limonciell: ill do this now.
<kees> RainCT: I've moved pbuilder-dist to pbuilder-dist.new for now. (using "bzr mv" so the revision history is intact.)  and put the old pbuilder-dist back in place so I could publish the current ubuntu-dev-tools with the various bug fixes.
<Jazzva> What should I do if my package FTBFS on some architectures, because of uninstallable deps? Forbid that architecture in debian/control?
<DktrKranz> Jazzva, sometimes it's just transient
<Jazzva> DktrKranz: Ok, I'll leave it for a while in this state. If it still doesn't build I'll dig a bit, to see what's with those packages. Thanks
<DktrKranz> Jazzva, which port was?
<DktrKranz> hppa?
<Jazzva> yep
<DktrKranz> it's out of date, you should leave it for now, it will be fixed later and packages will be mass given-back
<Jazzva> Great :)
<leleobhz> i still working on handbrake, this time also adding the gui
<leleobhz> so, ive created the patch to create the files
<leleobhz> but i dont know what i need to do with rules to get into directory and run ./configure ; make ; make install
<leleobhz> someone can help?
<directhex> sounds like a pretty simple rules file to me
<leleobhz> using cdbs
<leleobhz> directhex: cdbs isnt very well documented
<directhex> cdbwho? honestly, this sounds simple enough for dh_make to do the job
<directhex> IMHO. IANAL. YMMV.
<Laney> leleobhz: I found the CDBS documentation useful...
<leleobhz> Laney: almost
<Laney> /usr/share/doc/cdbs/
<leleobhz> have a lot of things that isnt documented
<leleobhz> Laney: im reading the code
<kees> mathiaz: I've uploaded the changes for mk-sbuild-lv, thanks for the diff.
<RainCT> kees: Yeh, I've seen the diffs. Good work :)
<mario_limonciell> leleobhz, https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml i've gotten everything i ever needed to know about CDBS from there
<leleobhz> mario_limonciell: its not everything
<leleobhz> im reading this doc since 2 days... and a debian devel told me most of resources of cdbs are documented in source code
<leleobhz> (and really appears)
<Laney> mathiaz: Those merges you blogged, do we still need to ping the last uploader or are they free to do?
<RainCT> davromaniak: ping
<bdmurray> mario_limonciell: are you familiar with vpnc?
<mario_limonciell> bdmurray, can't say i am sorry.
<mario_limonciell> i may have done an upload in the past, but that was some time back
<bdmurray> mario_limonciell: okay, thanks
<bdmurray> by the way I saw kerneloops is in intrepid now
<mario_limonciell> ah very good
<bdmurray> Is any of the motu-sru team around?
<ScottK> Yes
<bdmurray> ScottK: Hi, I'm curious about the process for getting a bug looked at for an SRU.  Is it the same as for main?
<bdmurray> Should I just target the bug to Hardy and that will put it on the radar.
<ScottK> You'd need to subscribe motu-sru.
<ScottK> That or ping someone on IRC.
<bdmurray> So subscribe motu-sru even though there is no patch / package?
<ScottK> bdmurray: Is it fixed in Intrepid
<ScottK> What's the bug?
<bdmurray> bug 236483 - it is fixed in Intrepid but not Hardy
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 236483 in youtranslate "Language Translation on hardy not working??" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/236483
<ScottK> bdmurray: From reading the changelog, it looks like debian/patches/update-service-providers.patch needs to be backported to Hardy.
<bdmurray> right, that was what I thought, but as the bug stands nobody will know that should / could be done.  So what can I do to ensure it shows up in the right bug list?
<ScottK> I don't know that there is a 'right' bug list.
<ScottK> motu-sru generally looks a bugs that a developer has already taken an interest in.
<mathiaz> Laney: better to ping the last uploader
<mathiaz> Laney: they should be easy to do, but better follow the process described in the Merging wiki page.
<ScottK> bdmurray: Don't we have a tag for an easy fix (bitesize I think)
<Laney> mathiaz: Yeah that's fine. I just didn't know if you'd worked something out for them, that's all.
<davromaniak> pong RainCT
<bdmurray> ScottK: since the bug is Fix Released it wouldn't show up in default searches
<bdmurray> but yes we do
<ScottK> Right.
<bdmurray> ScottK: This document https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RCBugTargetting seems to indicate nomination / targetting is the right list
<ScottK> OK, well I just nominated it.
<ScottK> So that takes care of that then.  I think adding bitesize would be useful.
<bdmurray> Okay, I'm doing that then.
<Laney> ScottK: I wouldn't mind having a go at this SRU. Can I just assign the Hardy task to myself?
<ScottK> Laney: Yes.
<Laney> ScottK: Thanks. Working on it now.
<ScottK> Laney: Keep in mind that my guess that pulling that patch into the Hardy package would fix it was exactly that - a guess.  You'll need to test it.
<Laney> ScottK: Of course
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Could somebody have a look at my small debdiff in bug #227323? Can I subscribe u-u-s?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227323 in poker-network "[wishlist]Please merge poker-network-1.4.0-1 (intrepid) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227323
<siretart> FYI, motu meeting in 6 minutes!
<cody-somerville> What...
<Laney> ScottK: It looks like RainCT is working on this in bug #239719
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239719 in youtranslate "[SRU] YouTranslate! in Gutsy and Hardy doesn't work." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239719
<cody-somerville> siretart, who is responsible for scheduling said MOTU meetings at such horrible times for me? :P
<RainCT> Laney: I was about to ping you :)
<Laney> :P
<ScottK> RainCT: Having a separate bug like that just for the SRU can be confusing.
<siretart> cody-somerville: AFAIUI the time is rotating, so that every timezone has to suffer from time to time
<RainCT> ScottK: Right, my fault. By the way, it's not just that one patch; youtranslate is FTBFS in Gutsy and Hardy too
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Thus my guess is proven wrong.
<Laney> I only got as far as "apt-get source" before noticing the new bug ;)
<Laney> Urgh, just duplicated RainCT's comment too. Sorry for bug spam
<RainCT> heh
<davromaniak> RainCT: hi
<RainCT> (brb)
<davromaniak> ok
<elliotjhug> hi all, just packaged something for the first time - followed the guide, but where does dbuilder store the resulting .deb file when it has been run? (seems like a such a newbish question - I'm sorry)
<davromaniak> /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<davromaniak> I didn't package since few months, but I think it's this path
<elliotjhug> davromaniak: Thanks - that's brilliant :)
<davromaniak> np
<ryanakca> How can I make knmap not run configure twice (once at start of build, and one at the end)?
<sebner> ah I missed the meeting :( who can me bring up to date?
<sistpoty> sebner: d'oh... I missed that too. maybe irclogs.ubuntu.com can shed some lights
<sebner> sistpoty: *good* ida
<sebner> *idea
<sebner> sistpoty: pretty boring one ^^
<sistpoty> still reading...
<sebner> however gn8 folks, sistpoty
<sistpoty> gn8 sebner
<RainCT> good night
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-14
 * sistpoty goes to bed... gn8
<wgrant> \sh: You *really* want to wait a couple of months for Leonov. There will be a complete Python API for Launchpad then.
<txwikinger> Is there a way to see in apt-cache policy which repo the package is found?
 * ScottK has heard that before.
<directhex> txwikinger, is this a trick question?
<txwikinger> No
<ScottK> apt-cache policy $PACKAGE |grep archive
<directhex> that's exactly what apt-cache policy tells you
<txwikinger> I get something like "500 http://ppa.launchpad.net hardy/main Packages"
<txwikinger> I can have more than one ppa
<directhex> cross-reference it against apt-cache show
<directhex> apt-cache show mono-gac | grep $(apt-cache policy mono-gac | grep -B1 Packages | head -1 | cut -d' ' -f3) | grep Filename
<wgrant> ScottK: It's actually happening now, though. Rather surprising, I know.
<RAOF> ls
<lifeless> -r--r--r-- 1 lifeless lifeless 1G
<RAOF> Gah.
<RAOF> Yay!  Matthew Garrett's working on suspend for nouveau.
<wgrant> RAOF: Nice!
 * wgrant is currently doing something very stupid - building mesa, drm, Xorg from Git to try to get DRI2 working.
<RAOF> Don't you have an nvidia card?
 * RAOF may be thinking of someone else.
<wgrant> At work, yes.
<wgrant> But my laptop is i915.
<RAOF> But not on the system where you're trying to get dri2 working, obviously :)
<emgent> uhm..
<emgent> http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/libaprutil1-dev
<emgent> libdb4.6-dev Package not available
<emgent> someone know why ?
<emgent> package removed, or ubuntu archivies problem ? (intrepid)
<wgrant> #  Deleted  15 hours ago  by Martin Pitt  (NBS)
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> The new db4.6 is in binary NEW.
<wgrant> So it will be back soon enough.
<emgent> ok, i should fix apache2
<wgrant> emgent: Why?
<emgent> there is a security problem (patched) but dont build beacuse apache2 depends to libaprutil1-dev and it depends to libdb4.6-dev
<wgrant> It's Intrepid. It can wait a couple of days.
<emgent> sure i will do
<emgent> i go to fix <= intrepid
<emgent> s/=/ /
<persia> freeflying: Feel free to take FBreader if you like: I have no explicit attachment, and am still tracking hardy.  I'll likely chase some SRU stuff before catching up on my merges, so help is welcome.
<Laney> wgrant: Where did you get the information about the deleted package from?
<wgrant> Laney: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/i386/libdb4.6-dev
<Laney> wgrant: Ah right, I didn't know it showed that. Thanks
<foxbuntu> could someone sync the keyring for me so I can upload my package for revu? (Thanks!)
<wgrant> foxbuntu: Sure.
<foxbuntu> thanks wgrant !
<wgrant> foxbuntu: It will take several minutes - I'll tell you when it's done.
<foxbuntu> wgrant, no problem...thanks
<wgrant> foxbuntu: It just finished.
<foxbuntu> wgrant, great...thanks again...time to get this uploaded :)
<foxbuntu> wgrant, I had already tried the upload the package before and my key wasnt in there do I need to re-upload?
<wgrant> foxbuntu: mythbuntu-apple-trailers?
<foxbuntu> yes
<foxbuntu> so obviously not ;)
<wgrant> foxbuntu: No, I'll poke it through now.
<foxbuntu> wgrant, thanks
<wgrant> Accepting upload mythbuntu-apple-trailers from Nick Fox <nfox@foxmediasystems.com>
<wgrant> It worked.
<foxbuntu> cool...I see it now on the revu site
<foxbuntu> thanks again for the help
<superm1> leleobhz, i left you some feedback on revu
<emgent> hi mario! :)
<crimsun> ugh, new hal-info regression :/
<emgent> hardy?
<crimsun> hardy-proposed, yes.
<superm1> hi emgent
<emgent> crimsun: argh
<superm1> regression?  you mean it's a new feature.  the behavior was wrong before right ;)
<crimsun> well, in the haste to fix additional HPs, several HPs were broken
<wgrant> crimsun: Didn't it get an exemption from hardy-proposed?
<crimsun> wgrant: I think, but 20080508+git20080601-0ubuntu0.8.04 in this intsall seems to be from hardy-proposed.
<emgent> wgrant: can you open tasks nominated in Bug #239894 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239894 in apache2 "CVE-2008-2364 Apache2 mod_proxy_http.c DOS" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239894
<SpookyET> hi
<SpookyET> I'm having some deb creation problem.
<SpookyET> debian/foo/usr/bin is empty. debian/tmp/usr/bin is not
<wgrant> emgent: No - I'm not a core-dev.
<emgent> oh ok, np
<emgent> I thought that the motu could also manage the tasks of the packages in main
<emgent> I go to sleep
<emgent> night people
<lifeless> night
<foxbuntu> wgrant, would you mind checking to see if my updated package was accepted?
<superm1> foxbuntu, it's automatic
<superm1> the cron job runs every 10 or 15 minutes or so
<superm1> to update the package lists on revu
<SpookyET> debian/foo/usr/bin is empty. debian/tmp/usr/bin is not
<SpookyET> I'm having some deb creation problem.
<\sh> good morning
<geser> good morning
<geser> hi \sh
<\sh> moins geser
<i4x> hugs 4 everyone!!
<Kopfgeldjaeger> could somebody have a look at my debdiff in bug #227323?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227323 in poker-network "[wishlist]Please merge poker-network-1.4.0-1 (intrepid) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227323
<emgent> geser: thank you for libdb4.6-dev
<geser> Kopfgeldjaeger: if changing the Maintainer field is the only change left, then it's a sync and not a merge
<Kopfgeldjaeger> geser: OK, I said I was unsure about that in the comment of my first Debdiff. Should i write "Sync blabla", or can this package then be synced automatically?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: re bugs used for multiple packages, for transitions, the problem is not only just the bugmail - it's that LP falls over trying to open them most of the time.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: so if you do want it that way, you'll need to solve both problems.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: (you must have missed my original mail on it at the time, when it was being discussed on the ML)
<DRebellion> Hmm... need some text-encoding advice: If a company that needs to be named in debian/copyright has a special character in its name "MjÃ¸lner Informatics", should I include that character (and thus turn the file into UTF-8 Unicode)? Or should I represent it in some other way?
<james_w> DRebellion: the file should be UTF-8 anyway
<james_w> s/ anyway//
<DRebellion> james_w, it should be utf-8 or ascii to start with? I should include the character to make it utf-8?
<james_w> if you include a non-ascii character then you should ensure your encoding is utf-8
<DRebellion> ok
<DRebellion> just wanted to make sure non-ascii was allowed
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hmpf... Nathan Handler already has uploaded debdiffs for all merges I'd like to do :O
<SpookyET> Hi. I have trouble with a deb. debian/package/usr/bin is empty. debian/tmp/usr/bin is not. I don't understand why it's not moving the files.
<DRebellion> SpookyET, perhaps elaborate or provide more detail about the problem? It seems a bit vague at the moment.
<SpookyET> DRebellion: The packaging is missing all files from /usr/bin
<DRebellion> SpookyET, does the install script (try to) put files there?
<SpookyET> But, make install is working properly. I see them in ./debian/tmp/usr/bin
<DRebellion> make install puts them in /tmp/usr/bin?
<DRebellion> oh right
<SpookyET> I'm using CDBS
<DRebellion> sorry, can't help you with cdbs
<SpookyET> Why don't you use it
<DRebellion> SpookyET, just never tried it
<leleobhz> what can i do if i cant remove a file?
<leleobhz> i explain
<DRebellion> SpookyET, guess that's not a very good reason :P
<leleobhz> W: handbrake source: patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff libhb/.depend
<leleobhz> any target removes this file before the make and after the package creation
<Kopfgeldjaeger> geser: ping
<leleobhz> SpookyET: what is with cdbs?
<SpookyET> leleobhz: scroll up
<leleobhz> [14/06-10:18:24] < SpookyET> Hi. I have trouble with a deb. debian/package/usr/bin is empty. debian/tmp/usr/bin is not. I don't understand why it's not moving the files.
<leleobhz> SpookyET: are you using debian/files?
<leleobhz> DRebellion: i think its isnt a cdbs issue
<SpookyET> leleobhz: no
<SpookyET> am i supposed to?
<leleobhz> i remember a package ive got this problem...
<SpookyET> everything besides /usr/bin gets populated
<leleobhz> SpookyET: try create a debian/dirs
<leleobhz> with
<leleobhz> usr/bin
<SpookyET> leleobhz: debian/usr/bin gets created
<leleobhz> SpookyET: i know
<leleobhz> try do this
<SpookyET> leleobhz: dirs is there
<leleobhz> leleobhz@zorg:~/TRABALHO/DEVELOPMENT/COMPILACOES/UBUNTU/pacotes/handbrake-intrepid/handbrake-0.9.2$ cat debian/dirs
<SpookyET> maybe that's what creates it
<leleobhz> usr/bin
<leleobhz> its a file
<Kopfgeldjaeger> OK. I have package foo with Ubuntu changes. Now a new version is in SID and needs to be merged. But there are no further Ubuntu changes needed (because their already made upstream or by debian) except adjusting the Maintainer field. What should I do with that package?
<SpookyET> mine is a dir
<leleobhz> SpookyET: remove it and make it as a file
<leleobhz> touch debian/dirs
<Kopfgeldjaeger> s/their/they're/
<leleobhz> echo "usr/bin" > debian/dirs
<SpookyET> leleobhz: I have it, dude
<leleobhz> SpookyET: and even with this it dont install into usr/bin?
<SpookyET> leleobhz: it was there before you told me. maybe, i should remove it
<leleobhz> give a try
<SpookyET> leleobhz: debian/usr/bin does not get created at all
<leleobhz> SpookyET: debian/usr/bin???
<leleobhz> debian/packagename/usr/bin
<SpookyET> right
<leleobhz> and may need the tricky of debian/dirs
<SpookyET> the dirs file created the empty dir
<leleobhz> make a list with binary dirs and put there
<SpookyET> it's just usr/bin
<leleobhz> mmm
<SpookyET> but the actual files are not moved there
<leleobhz> how is your makefile install target?
<SpookyET> leleobhz: it works fine  debian/tmp/usr/bin is populated
<leleobhz> (!)
<leleobhz> what includes have in debian/rules ?
<SpookyET> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<SpookyET> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk
<SpookyET> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk
<leleobhz> hmmmm
<SpookyET> what about debian/files?
<SpookyET> tell me about it
<leleobhz> SpookyET: i really dont use it
<leleobhz> SpookyET: but have this inside a mine
<leleobhz> handbrake_0.9.2-0ubuntu2_i386.deb graphics extra
<leleobhz> "debian/files" [readonly] 1L, 49C                                                               1,1           All
<leleobhz> (last is vi comment line. not inside the file)
<SpookyET> looks worthless
<man-di> SpookyET: its a generated file, dont touch it on your own
<leleobhz> :]
<leleobhz> SpookyET: ive got this problem in past, but i cant remember how ive solved it
<SpookyET> look at the deb
<leleobhz> i cant remember the package name ;]
<SpookyET> leleobhz: grep for cdbs rules
<SpookyET> you'll find it
<leleobhz> latter thing ;]
<SpookyET> this is annoying
<SpookyET> i don't get it
<tacone> hello, I am looking after https://bugs.launchpad.net/memaker/+bug/214401. I need to force the building process to using python 2.5.  Simply setting the right dependency in debian/control  doesn't work. anyone willing to help me ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 214401 in memaker "Installation of 0.9.4-0ubuntu1 failed" [High,Confirmed]
<leleobhz> tacone: using cdbs?
<tacone> leleobhz: I have no clue of what cdbs is, sorry :(
<leleobhz> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<tacone> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5.0.37) ?
<leleobhz> normal package
<leleobhz> :]
<leleobhz> cdbs packages must have cdbs in build-deps
<tacone> uhm
<SpookyET> what about my usr/bin
<leleobhz> notting from my memory
<tacone> leleobhz: what should I do then ? note it's a python application
<leleobhz> this problem happened with me some YEARS ago...
<SpookyET> mind taking a look at the files?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> I have a package that copies my (Hardy)-/usr/share/misc/config.{sub, guess) to its main folder... So the debian debdiff looks kind of strange (I'm packaging for Intrepid).. Is this OK or what should I do with it?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> It already copies the two files when I dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot
<tacone> wow, works ?
<whs> Hello, I'm member of ThaiLoco willing to running a PackageJam. (even with no one of us being MOTU, I hope to see one) Does the Packaging Playbook have the translatable format available?
<zorglu_> i have an apps using libxml2. It compile and run fine on feisty. when linked in dynamic or static. But when i do it on hardy, it run well only in dynamic link but it crashes in static linking. is that something you already seen ?
<whs> The jam is on 6 July but we have a meeting tomorrow.
<tacone> I am looking for submitting a patch to fix a little bug. how should I change the changelog ?
<ryanakca> How can I make knmap not run configure twice (once at start of build, and one at the end)?
<tacone> ok, gave up :-)
<geser> Kopfgeldjaeger: to make the debdiff easier to review I'd remove the config.* changes from the debdiff
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Fine. If it's that easy... :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> and what about my earlier question? (package with no needed ubuntu changes anymore)
<Hobbsee> Kopfgeldjaeger: file a sync request, see info in /contributing
<Kopfgeldjaeger> pbuilder hooks don't work for me... HOOKDIR="/etc/pbuilder/hooks" and there is the file "C10shell"...
<ScottK> Hobbsee: The LP falls over problem is supposed to be fixed in this next release.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Bug #239995 should be a sync request
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239995 in multisync0.90 "Please merge multisync0.90 0.92.0~svn355-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239995
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I was able to open the maintainer field bug on dogfood at UDS.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> just like Bug #227323
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227323 in poker-network "[wishlist]Please merge poker-network-1.4.0-1 (intrepid) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227323
<ScottK> Kopfgeldjaeger: Then fill the bug out like a sync request (explaining why any Ubuntu changes can be dropped) and subscribe UUS.
<ScottK> Kopfgeldjaeger: Are you sure on Poker Network?
<ScottK> It certainly wasn't in the past.  I haven't looked at it, but that would suprise me.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> the only changes I'm not sure about were in debian/control (Depends stuff)
<ScottK> That's the ones that are most probably needed.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> OK. Interesting.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Needed for what?
<ScottK> IIRC (and it's been a while) there are some database library naming differences between Debian and Ubuntu.
<ScottK> You'll see that poker network ships several control files for Ubuntu versions.
<devfil> is dad down?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> The control file really has changed since 1.2.0. I will look up that... But anyway it builds fine with no Dep-changes
<ScottK> Kopfgeldjaeger: Building wasn't the problem before, it was running.
<ScottK> Speaking of which ...
 * ScottK runs off for a while.
<Adri2000> devfil: it is
<devfil> Adri2000: thanks :)
<Adri2000> devfil: the server hosting it is down, no idea what happened and when will it come back yet
<devfil> Adri2000: I will use MoM
<Kopfgeldjaeger2> geser: Do you think pwman3 can be synced from Debian? The "help EOF" bug and the cElementTree stuff are fixed there
<geser> Kopfgeldjaeger: sure
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Could somebody have a look at my debdiff in bug #239998? (I know, I'm annoying ;) )
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239998 in muse-el "Please merge muse-el 3.12-1	(universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239998
<rockstar> How can I take a bzr branch and add the debian/ folder (and all files)?
<RainCT> rockstar: what do you mean?
<leleobhz> RainCT: can you help-me with handbrake?
<RainCT> (uhm.. nvm, I guess you've already found out what you wanted to know by now :P)
<RainCT> leleobhz: Sure, I can try :). What's the problem?
<bobbo> warp10: ping
<warp10> hi bobbo!
<bobbo> hey :D
<bobbo> im a bit stuck with the get-orig-source directive for bug #195196, could you try and help me?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 195196 in graphmonkey "graphmonkey: Upgrade to new upstream release (1.7)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195196
<warp10> bobbo: I can't try, since I am not on my own box and have not the dev tool I need, but I can help you :)
<bobbo> warp10: ok :) http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/20198/ <-- That has the description of my problem
 * warp10 looks
<warp10> bobbo: looks like your problem is just renaming the directory, isn't it?
<bobbo> warp10: yes, i know i can extract it, then just mv the directory but i cant work out a way to get the version number for the mv destination
<warp10> bobbo: I can only find rather complex and unusal ways to achieve such a task.
<warp10> Any other MOTU has a good idea or knows an easy way to do that?
<devfil> bobbo: in rules you should put VERSION = <packageversion>
<devfil> I think this is the only think you can do
<bobbo> devfil: ok, will do, thanks alot
<devfil> bobbo: np ;)
<warp10> bobbo: BTW, you could ask the upstream developer to package the tarball so that it extracts in a more standardized way. Maybe he will listen to you :)
<bobbo> warp10: yeah i was thinking about doing that at half 2 last night while trying to work out how to fix that ;)
<warp10> bobbo: I had a similar bad adventure for my first packaging task. I have been lucky with my upstream, hope you are too!
<bobbo> warp10: hehe, not as bad as purrr upstrem who disappear right in the middle of a conversation while you are trying to get an FFe
<warp10> bobbo: :(
<warp10> bobbo: BTW, adding a .desktop file to your package is an important thing for that package. Did you find and icon file for that software?
<bobbo> warp10: yeah there was an icon in the upstream tar.gz
<warp10> bobbo: xpm?
<bobbo> warp10: nope only a png
<warp10> bobbo: fair enough
<warp10> bobbo: just seen your new diff.gz: good work with the get-orig-source, a little unusual, but it should be fine. If you contact upstream, please send him any modification you did that deserves to be included in future releases (like the .desktop file)
<bobbo> warp10: thanks alot, ok will do :)
<sistpoty> hi folks
<sebner> huhu sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi sebner:
<norsetto> hello
<sebner> huhu norsetto =)
<norsetto> hi sebner
<sebner> norsetto: some hours ago I would have needed your italian power :P
<norsetto> sebner: you mean you had the italian exam already?
<sebner> norsetto: no. monday in one week. I had to work on an italian text ^
<tacone> sebner: italian is so easy :)
<sebner> rofl
 * sebner doesn't think so
<sebner> or sebner just suck
 * tacone thinks so
<norsetto> sebner: ask tacone if he speaks italian, most probably he speaks a strange dialect that only he and his relatives understand
<devfil_> sebner: there are a lot of italians in this chan, if you need ask :)
<sebner> norsetto: rofl, and what help is he then for me? ^
<sebner> devfil_: thx for the offer but not needed anymore ;)
<tacone> norsetto: I miei genitori erano professori d'italiano entrambi. per quanto ignorante io possa essere qualcosa d'italiano lo parlo.
<sebner> devfil_: thx for the offer but not needed anymore ;) ^
<sebner> ah
<sebner> xD
<devfil> sebner: I've read :)
<devfil> ed
<sebner> tacone: uhh I can understand it somehow xD
<tacone> sebner: nice sign ;-)
<sebner> devfil: read ;)
<sebner> tacone: hmm?
<devfil> tacone: professori di italiano? sono spaventato...
<tacone> sebner: my english is worse than my italian
<norsetto> tacone: per con la lettera Maiuscola ;-)
<tacone> devfil: norsetto: menosi ! :-D
<sebner> tacone: np
<sebner> ahhh
<sebner> too many italian people
 * sebner hides
<devfil> ahahahaha
<devfil> lool
<tacone> sebner: best way to learn italian is come to italy, and party with italians :-)
<slangasek> tacone: "#fanculo", eh?
<sebner> norsetto: last time we spoke italian you stopped it because it's OT :P
<tacone> slangasek: fanculo is an important opensource project. cough cough
<devfil> sebner: party based on pizza and beer :)
<sebner> tacone: I don't want to learn it ^
<slangasek> tacone: heh
<sebner> devfil: lol, is there also one named "Figlio di una buttana" ? ^
<devfil> sebner: not buttana, but puttana :)
<tacone> sebner: when you get to know an nice looking foreign girl.. you usually *want* to learn her mother language
<sebner> tacone: rofl
<sebner> devfil: ah, thx
<norsetto> sebner: your version is actually ok in sicily (just change figlio with figghio)
<devfil> norsetto: lol
<sebner> hmm my italdict can't find that word
<sebner> ^
<devfil> sebner: and change una with na
<tacone> norsetto: btw, I wrote you sometime ago about getting a mentor. then it seemed I need more practice before getting one. but I don't know how to practice without one.
<sebner> some form of figlio I suppose
<tacone> sebner: right.
<devfil> sebner: dialect form
<sebner> wÃ¤h
<sebner> I don't even can speak normal italian
<sebner> and then you come with dialect xD
<norsetto> tacone: you hadn't had the chance to work on any bug?
<tacone> norsetto: I tried today, but stalled about changelogs and proper reporting
<norsetto> tacone: ok, what was the problem?
<sebner> norsetto: is it Ã¨ or Ã© ?
<norsetto> sebner: depends if its an open or closed vowel
 * slangasek grins
<sebner> norsetto: hmm? he,she,it is
<tacone> norsetto: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/memaker/+bug/214401
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 214401 in memaker "Installation of 0.9.4-0ubuntu1 failed" [High,Confirmed]
<tacone> norsetto: I didn't know how to properly modify changelog and version
<slangasek> sebner: Ã¨
<norsetto> tacone: ok, let me check what you did
<tacone> norsetto: btw, afterwards, looking to other memaker related bugs, I guess my patch is not needed
<devfil> sebner: he = lui, she = lei, it = lui, is = Ã¨
<sebner> slangasek: next italian geek :P
<tacone> norsetto: and my patch targets hardy, not intrepid :-(
<sebner> devfil: I know ^^
<norsetto> tacone: for the changelog you can simply use dch
<slangasek> sebner: io sono geek di tutte le lingue :)
<tacone> norsetto: I know, but I didn't dare to do it.
<sebner> slangasek: give me some german :P
<norsetto> tacone: try, whats the problem? If its wrong you repeat
<devfil> slangasek: come fai a conoscere l'italiano?
<tacone> I dind't know who to assign as mantainer. me ? ubuntu motus ?
<norsetto> tacone: ubuntu motu, you can use update-maintainer
<slangasek> sebner: warum? :P
<tacone> norsetto: i don't have update-mantainer on my box, it seems.
<sebner> slangasek: come on. ein bisschen mehr :P
<norsetto> tacone: should be in ubuntu-dev-tools
<tacone> I have it. but it's not there.
<norsetto> tacone: you can also edit your changelog manually, just mind the spaces, tabs and the likes
<tacone> too difficult for me. giving up, and going to get cigarettes.
<norsetto> tacone: hmmm, that seems pretty strange to me
<slangasek> devfil: ho studiato lingue Romance nella universitÃ , fa molti anni; la veritÃ , c'Ã¨ che non conosco l'italiano, ma conosco molto bene l'espagnolo e il portuguese ;)
<tacone> norsetto: I guess I'll wait for someone to review my patch and tell me about it.
<tacone> norsetto: truth is that I just can't find my way out of existing documentation
<devfil> slangasek: they're much similar to italian ;)
<norsetto> tacone: then please let us know where is the problem so that we can correct it
<tacone> slangasek: some mistake, but understandable.
<leleobhz> slangasek: ping
<sebner> slangasek: your italian has the same level as mine xD
<gaspa> slangasek: anyway, compliments. ;) for one that doesn't know italian, you're quite good...
<norsetto> slangasek: better than many italians ...
<sebner> rofl
<tacone> norsetto: wiki it's just feels messy. I'll try again maybe. but it's like wasting a lot time to learn what you could have learn in minutes.
<slangasek> sebner: ich benutze nicht die deutsche Sprache seit 15 Jahre, ich gebe dir nicht mehr ;)
<slangasek> norsetto: heh... :)
<slangasek> leleobhz: pong
<sebner> slangasek: hrhr
 * tacone brb in 15 minutes.
<norsetto> tacone: you mean the packaging guide?
<tacone> norsetto: I mean all.
<leleobhz> slangasek: can i speak with you in pvt again?
<tacone> going. see you later
 * devfil doesn't know italian but he is italian, this is funny and scarer at the same time
<devfil> :)
<sebner> Il mio opinione Ã© che anch' io posso parlare italiano un pochino. Ha nessuno la voglia di abbracciare sebner? ^^
<slangasek> leleobhz: you can speak with me in private, but I'm not sure what you mean by "again"?
<devfil> sebner: "La mia opinione" and "Nessuno ha"
<slangasek> sebner: ti abbraccio!
<sebner> devfil: -.-
<sebner> slangasek: grazie =)
 * sebner hugs slangasek 
<devfil> sebner: remember: in italian when you make a question use subject + verb
 * norsetto gives sebner a bear hug
<sebner> devfil: well I just need italian knowledge for the next few days. so I don't mind ;)
 * sebner hugs bear norsetto ^=)
<slangasek> cdbs question: what's the proper way to remove a file as part of the clean target if the upstream rules don't take care of it?
<norsetto> slangasek: is that a quiz?
<sebner> lol
<slangasek> norsetto: it's a question on behalf of leleobhz; I don't use cdbs and don't know the runes :)
<norsetto> slangasek, leleobhz: ah, I would just use a clean:: target and rm the file there
<crimsun> right, clean::
<sistpoty> short info: revu will be back up in a few minutes (rebooting for new kernel atm)(
<norsetto> sistpoty: I can hardly wait
<sistpoty> heh
 * norsetto relax and has a thumblefull of "grappa alla liquerizia"
<norsetto> sebner: that was an example of bad italian
<slangasek> then I shouldn't feel bad at not understanding it? :)
<sebner> norsetto: lol. I know what grappa is. liquerizia? liquid?
<devfil> http://mail.google.com/mail/#inbox
<devfil> sorry for the link
<devfil> my error
<norsetto> sebner: liquerizia is liquorice, but the correct italian would be liquirizia
<sebner> ah
<sebner> bad norsetto :P .... ok it's saturday
<sebner> norsetto: hmm, what does the word " avvenne" means?
<norsetto> sebner: it happened
<sebner> thanks
<sistpoty> revu is back :)
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: any reason why u-u-s was not subscribed to your sync requests?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> No.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Will subscribe u-u-s at once
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: thanks, if you use requestsync there is an option you can use to do that automatically
<Kopfgeldjaeger> I tried it
<Kopfgeldjaeger> But when I start the script, I just see a blinking cursor (just like after "cat" in a shell)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> (also compiled the newest version in Intrepid)
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: have you checked if a bug was reported?
<sebner> norsetto: If never tried that. I always sync them manually. I tried once and there was written "sending to Debian" so I exited
<Kopfgeldjaeger> norsetto: Yeah, but I found nothing
<Kopfgeldjaeger> It hangs when calling debian_component(somestr)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Maybe it's cause p.d.o is damn slow today
<sistpoty> hm... an unstable chroot helps a lot :)
<i4x> hi!!
<i4x> santa
<geser> sebner: requestsync doesn't send the sync request to Debian, only to LP
<sebner> geser: wow, so I can improve my sync rate rapidly \o/
<geser> sebner: hmm, better continue filing them manually :)
<sebner> geser: lol, why?
<geser> so the MOTUs have time to clear the u-u-s queue from you
<sebner> geser: hmm, I'm not on the queue currently IIRC *but* wait until my exams are passed and Debian Import Freeze is starting. *hrhrhrhrhr*
<geser> argh
 * geser starts writing a python script to ACK sebner's sync requests
<sebner> geser: O_o to be honest I've heard this sentence a few times from different people xD
<RainCT> :)
<RainCT> am I the only one here who doesn't understand Italian? :P
 * LaserJock raises his hand
<LaserJock> I .. uh.. know some English, that's it
<geser> RainCT: no
<Nafallo> sometimes I have difficulty understanding Italians even when they speak English :-)
 * sistpoty only speaks computer languages *g*
<RainCT> lol
<Nafallo> but then again... that goes for all kind of people ;-)
<geser> sistpoty: also whitespace?
<sebner> sistpoty: brainfuck?
<sistpoty> both still on my list (though I did have a look at bf some time ago)
<sistpoty> list to learn even
<LaserJock> \o/ for profiling
<sistpoty> but I refuse to learn malbolge though *g*
<LaserJock> I just cut down the running time a C app by 6 times
<sistpoty> congrats LaserJock
<LaserJock> it turns out division really is more computationally intensive :-)
<LaserJock> more than multiplication that is
<sistpoty> heh
<RainCT> LaserJock: what do you do then? *0.x?
<LaserJock> essentially yes
<LaserJock> 1/x
<sebner> gn8 folks :)
<sistpoty> hm... and that brings you an optimization? or is x a constant in that regard?
<sistpoty> gn8 sebner
<LaserJock> so I was doing y/x but instead I redefined z = 1/x so that I can do y*z
<sistpoty> and you had y/x repeatedly in there?
<RainCT> clever :)
<sistpoty> (still trying to find out why it wasn't optimized by the compiler in the first place)
<LaserJock> well, I was doing y/x approximately 240k times
<LaserJock> doing y/x 240k times versus y*z 240k times makes a lot of difference
<sistpoty> hm... yes :)... though the compiler should really take care of this imo, though it's not really that trivial to optimize such a case
<LaserJock> woot, and a -O3 shaved off another 20%
 * LaserJock <3 C
<leleobhz> Use of uninitialized value in pattern match (m//) at /usr/bin/dpkg-source line 429.
<leleobhz> how can i fixit?
<sistpoty> leleobhz: hm? what version of dpkg are you using/can you pastebin the complete output?
<i4x> ppl, while installing a package.deb all the instructions will act with root permissions, right?
<LaserJock> yep
<leleobhz> sistpoty: http://paste.ubuntu.com/20224/
<leleobhz> hmmm
<i4x> so, I don't need to use 'sudo' before any instruction and 'mysql' will login by default as root, right?
<sistpoty> leleobhz: line 105/108 might give you some clue
<sistpoty> leleobhz: in short, all changes are done in a unified diff, hence you cannot add or change binary files, as these cannot be represented via .diff.gz
<leleobhz> lets see
<leleobhz> sistpoty: right! intruder files
<LaserJock> i4x: the sudo part yes, not sure about mysql
<Lichte> is there any reason why tcltls can't use tcl8.5 ?
<leleobhz> now building...
<i4x> LaserJock: can you explain me one thing? I'm trying to build a package to install some files and to run some instructions! I'm trying to do it from 'ed-0.9.deb' but I'm afraid to change some files like 'rules' and then it fail!.. do you know any examples to learn better what may or not change? thx in advance!
<LaserJock> i4x: you might want to look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<i4x> LaserJock: I'm already reading it!.. but I can't find anything better than https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Lists/DhMakeExampleFiles?highlight=(CategoryPackagingGuideList)
<LaserJock> i4x: well, what are you wanting to do?
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-15
<RainCT> i4x: you can also find some examples here: http://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-docs/packaging-jam
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i4x: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#head-e04be34f77d138d433da4235a59a3cc82d2219be
<i4x> LaserJock: I want to create folders, install files there, run some instructions and finally remove the temporary files!!
<norsetto> night all
<RainCT> i4x: the easiest way to do this is calling dh_install in debian/rules and create a debian/install file where you list each file you want to install in one line (syntax is: <original file> <destination directory, ie. usr/bin, usr/share/application, etc>)
<LaserJock> RainCT: I'm not sure that'll work if he wants to remove them later
<i4x> RainCT: won't it work if I only paste the files under debian/ folder ? (eg: debian/var/www/index.php)
<RainCT> LaserJock: with cdbs he can remove them from within install:: (just rm debian/<app>/path/to/file), not sure where he has to put the code without cdbs but it must be possible, too
<LaserJock> RainCT: but it sounds like he wants to do it at install time, not build time
<RainCT> i4x: when you build the package, the files that are inside debian/<binary package name> are installed in the .deb
<RainCT> ahh
<RainCT> i4x: so.. do you want this at build time (debian/rules) or install time (debian/preinst, debian/postinst?)
<i4x> yes!.. RainCT, I just need to use postinst to change permissions and remove some temporary files!
<RainCT> ah ok
<RainCT> well, what's the problem then?
<i4x> but I see that 'rules' has some isntructions from 'ed-0.9'!..
<i4x> what files do I really need to do something so easy?
<RainCT> debian/rules is only used to build the .deb - it isn't included in the binary package
<RainCT> and then there are debian/preinst, which is included in the .deb and is executed (with root permissions) when the user start sto install the package, debian/postinst after he installed the package,
<RainCT> debian/prerm when he removes the package (but before removing it) and debian/postrm after it has been removed
<RainCT> and if you say that you want to change permissions and remove files in postinst (although I can't think of any use case for this) then get a postinst template (I'm not sure how they look like) and just use chmod and rm -f there
<RainCT> well, I'm off
<RainCT> see you
<i4x> thx!!
<i4x> i'm in the phone!!
<RainCT> you're welcome :)
<sistpoty> argh... who did add all that maintainer field task. cleaning that out seems like a never ending story :/
<sistpoty> (bug 230350 fyi)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230350 in chmsee "Missing Debian Maintainer field" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230350
<LaserJock> sistpoty: DrkTranz I believe
<sistpoty> LaserJock: hm... he filed the initial bug, but I doubt he added all that tasks (there used to be much less tasks earlier on) ;)
<sistpoty> I guess, I'll add a "if you add any more tasks, I will personally take care that someone with a very poky stick will come after you" comment *g*
<LaserJock> I would honestly close all the bugs and use a wiki page or something
<LaserJock> besides the fact that it's actually a pretty unnecessary task
<sistpoty> hm... I'm through to kio-sword atm, and there are maybe 3 bugs that I didn't close or mark won't fix so far
<sistpoty> s/bugs/tasks
<sistpoty> oh, and I totally agree with unnecessary :)
<wgrant> sistpoty: But some Debian people don't.
<bimberi> "You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to gnucash
<bimberi> in ubuntu."
<bimberi> Adding a comment to it is a good way to communicate with a large proportion of the Ubuntu community ;|
<LaserJock> wgrant: the policy was to do it as-needed though
<LaserJock> wgrant: if Debian has a problem with that they should talk to the TB
<wgrant> LaserJock: Well, it has been 2 years...
<LaserJock> wgrant: and?
<wgrant> We're being slower than even Debian's release process.
<sistpoty> wgrant: the sponsors queue is huge, merges are huge... *that* are things to care about imo, fixing a maintainer field is whishlist for me
<wgrant> sistpoty: Right, and it seems Debian is being fairly quiet about it, so I guess it should be low.
 * wgrant does some merges.
<sistpoty> wgrant: yep... and finally, I guess after I've done my triage there will be only 5-10 tasks remaining :)
<wgrant> sistpoty: Oh, good.
<sistpoty> (most are ubuntu only, or have a maintainer field already or need to be merged anyways)
<m0u5e> anyone know why glob2 is outdated? :(
<luisbg> no clue
<m0u5e> its such a great game, its sad that its oudated in the repos :(
 * luisbg waves at LaserJock "long time no see"
<LaserJock> hi luisbg
<luisbg> LaserJock: how is life and your research?
<LaserJock> they're going
<LaserJock> better now that I don't have to worry about *buntu stuff
<luisbg> :S
<luisbg> thats sad :P
<luisbg> when are you coming back?
<luisbg> let me rephrase that...
<luisbg> when are you finishing your research?
<LaserJock> sometime this fall
<luisbg> oh cool
<luisbg> well... should go to bed
<luisbg> cath you some other time :)
<luisbg> s/cath/catch
<LaserJock> luisbg: cya
<m0u5e> eom cannot play annimated gifs, could i move to replace eom with gthumb as the default picture viewer? :)
<leleobhz> a package manpage must to stay in . or in debian dir?
<sistpoty> leleobhz: package manpage? do you mean a normal manpage for a program?
<leleobhz> yep
<leleobhz> appp.1
<sistpoty> leleobhz: it should be installed at /usr/share/man/<section>, localized version in /usr/share/man/<locale>/<section>
<sistpoty> iirc
<leleobhz> err
<leleobhz> sistpoty: in source package
<leleobhz> using dh_manpage
<sistpoty> leleobhz: in the source package, just put it in the debian folder
<sistpoty> leleobhz: and make sure to reference it in <package>.manpages in the debian folder, if you use dh_installman
<leleobhz> trying again
<leleobhz> sistpoty: thanks!
<sistpoty> np
 * sistpoty goes to bed now... gn8 everyone
<leleobhz> well, no progress
<leleobhz> dh_installman -phandbrake
<leleobhz> HandBrakeCLI.1: No such file or directory at /usr/bin/dh_installman line 123.
<leleobhz> make: *** [binary-install/handbrake] Error 2
<slangasek> you have to list the filename as debian/HandBrakeCLI.1
<leleobhz> on handbrake.manpages?
<leleobhz> well, i think it worked
<leleobhz> OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW! Done!
<leleobhz> just run dput revu handbrake_0.9.2-0ubuntu2_source.changes
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it was supposed to be fixed last release too, and got partially fixed.
<ryanakca> How would I package a python app that doesn't ship a setup.py, with CDBS?
<leleobhz> ship another installer?
<ryanakca> leleobhz: no installer whatsoever...
<leleobhz> hmm
<ryanakca> leleobhz: They just say "cd into this directory and run ./foobar"
<leleobhz> i think if you want to use cdbs
<leleobhz> well
<ryanakca> well, "run 'python foobar.py'"
<leleobhz> this foobar is a python app?
<leleobhz> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<leleobhz> ryanakca: well, hard to say, but maybe cdbs inadequate for this case
<leleobhz> anyway, if you want to use cdbs
<ryanakca> Did you want to see what I have so far? I'm manually installing it to /usr/share and /usr/bin... but it still wants to run setup.py :) ...
<leleobhz> i think you may need create a patch, creating a setup.py
<leleobhz> ryanakca: so why cdbs? ;]
<ryanakca> leleobhz: no clue ;)
<leleobhz> ryanakca: i think you have 2 choices.
<ryanakca> leleobhz: yep, thanks :)
<leleobhz> or you make a very sample package or you patch it
<leleobhz> ryanakca: :]
<LaserJock> I think you should be able to just install the file
<LaserJock> does it also install other modules?
<leleobhz> LaserJock: havent even a setup.py ;]
<leleobhz> may some dependencies...
<LaserJock> yeah, but the question is what all needs installing
<LaserJock> it could be simple enough that a setup.py is unnecessary work
<ryanakca> LaserJock: *uploads the dsc* ...
<ryanakca> LaserJock: dget http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/s/slingshot/slingshot_0.8.1p-1.dsc
<LaserJock> yeah, so it has all those modules that it also installs
<LaserJock> you could do it without a setup.py but maybe it's just as well to do it
<\sh> moins
<geser> Guten Morgen \sh
<\sh> hey geser
<\sh> never ever start something like a software project...really it gives you #trouble
<elmargol> I did create new packages for Gnunet (GNUnet is a peer-to-peer framework which focuses on providing security.) https://launchpad.net/~teamgnunet/+archive | I would love to get some feedbrack from hardy users
<Zic> !deowner
<ubottu> Factoid deowner not found
<Zic> !deop
<ubottu> Factoid deop not found
<jussi01> Zic: can I help you at all?
<Zic> DÃ©solÃ© erreur d'amsg multiserveur / Error of /amsg command on multiserver, sorry
<jussi01> Zic: ahh :)
<i4x> hugs 4 every1!!
<sebner> DktrKranz: aloha \o/ time now for the fakesync?
<DktrKranz> sebner, yep
<sebner> =)
<sebner> DktrKranz: bug #236312
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 236312 in soundkonverter "Please sync soundkonverter 0.3.6-1.1 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/236312
<DktrKranz> I'll finish wordpress update on my site and I'll test build ;)
<sebner> kk
<DktrKranz> you can call it "paranoia"
<sebner> DktrKranz: ^^ , I'm curious. What do you do with the debdiff (except testbuilding of course)
<DktrKranz> I'll download current intrepid version and apply it
<sebner> but you don't examine the whole debdiff? ^^
<DktrKranz> just to be sure, I'll download debian version and check if the only difference is in the changelog
<sebner> well, there are many differences like always when we package it at our own
<sebner> and sync then
<DktrKranz> well, if it is a fakesync, we suppose package should be the same
<sebner> hmm ^^
<sebner> You'll examine and tell me then
<rgl> hi
<rgl> how do I install sun-java6-jre in hardy?    here its failing with dependency problems prevent configuration of sun-java6-jre :-(
<bimberi> rgl: please put the errors on a pastebin
<rgl> bimberi, http://dpaste.com/56677/
<rgl> the first command I've used to install the jre was: apt-get install sun-java6-jre
<rgl> I guess I'll have to somehow try to run the postinst script by hand to try to figure out the problem?
<DktrKranz> rgl, IIRC, there's a candidate update in hardy-proposed
<rgl> what is hardy-proposed?
<rgl> a repo?
<DktrKranz> yes
<bimberi> yes
<rgl> is there a way to see the packages inside that archive?
<rgl> (as in, packages.ubuntu.com
<DktrKranz> just add hardy-proposed line to your sources.list
<DktrKranz> or enable it in synaptic (there's an option somewhere)
<rgl> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy-proposed main universe multiverse ?
<rgl> How do I just import the sun-java6-jre updates?  (I'm don't want the other updates that are in that archive)
<rgl> oh scrap that, there is no update in the -proposed archive.
<rgl> OMG... not even java5 install, how could this happen? :(
<DktrKranz> sebner, soundkonverter has some changes which should be analyzed more deeply, so I'm subscribing u-u-s
<sebner> DktrKranz: kk, thx
<sistpoty> hi folks
<emgent> hi sistpoty :)
<sistpoty> hi emgent
<sistpoty> asac: mind to take a look at bug #232402?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 232402 in chmsee "chmsee FTBFS in Hardy" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/232402
<sistpoty> asac: as there is xulrunner linking fun involved
<\sh> hmm..does anyone know if the $HOME/.config location is somewhere defined in the environment ? like XDG_LOCAL_CONFIG or whatever?
<asac> sistpoty: commented
<\sh> found it
<sistpoty> asac: thanks
 * juliux hugs siretart for the gnucash-hbci package
<sistpoty> saivann: ^^ read the comments?
<siretart> juliux: I currently consider uploading it to intrepid as is. this way it becomes a candidate for hardy-backports
<juliux> siretart: cool
<\sh> siretart: why wasn't it in the default package of gnucash in debian? ;)
<siretart> \sh: is this a serious question?
<siretart> the package juliux is testing is a rebuild of a very experimental preprelease package from alioth
<\sh> siretart: regarding the foo I read about that...I still it's a bar question ;) so no :)
<sistpoty> hi siretart: maybe you could sponsor bug #240034 for me? (bryce told me he'd appreciate help with X merges)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240034 in xserver-xorg-video-nv "merge 2.1.9-1 from unstable/main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240034
<siretart> sistpoty: I'm on it
<sistpoty> thanks siretart :)
<siretart> sistpoty: any particular reason why you don't keep old changelog entries?
<sistpoty> siretart: I've done this always like this, rebasing instead of merging. Imho it's cleaner like this
<sistpoty> (and doing it by hand means that I really need to check each bit of ubuntu delta, and if it's still necessary *g*)
<siretart> sistpoty: it's not really usual, you should perhaps discuss this on the mailing list first
<siretart> because you basically drop the work history of previous people working on the package
<sistpoty> siretart: imho old changelog entries are not necessary, as long as every important bit is preserved (i.e. also who did a change and for what reason)
<sistpoty> siretart: if you want, I can write a mail to ubuntu-devel though
<siretart> sistpoty: I think this is pretty controversial. you remove attribution from previous developer who have worked on the package
<siretart> but we do that on syncs as well. that's why I don't say that's unacceptable behaviour.
<sistpoty> siretart: actually I don't remove attribution. that's one of the things that I always put in the last changelog entry (who did what change)
<siretart> well, you could as well just leave the previous changelog entry
<siretart> this way timestamps, contact address and all are preserved
<siretart> (which is the point of the changelog, no?)
<sistpoty> hm... I don't think timestamps are too important information personally
<sistpoty> also, it's really that I'm rebasing instead of merging, i.e. I'll redo every ubuntu specific change (which guarantees reproducibility), instead of well, merging *g*
<sistpoty> so it wouldn't really fit to have old changelog entries in there imho (because it's really me redoing the stuff instead of just merging it in)
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: it's usefulto know what's happened previously with the package.
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: re when transitions happened, etc.
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: you mean the date is useful? can you give me an example?
<siretart> sistpoty: you become unresponsive and need to talk to the previous uploader
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: yes - well, at least the release name.  transitions, and LTS releases.
<Hobbsee> is the immediate one I think of
<siretart> you can dig this information out of launchpad of course, but thats tedious
<Hobbsee> also figuring out when a change was made, so how many stable releases it effects.
<sistpoty> siretart: that's why I put in there who did what change
<Hobbsee> yes, but that's launchpad.  and it's nto there indefinetly, because the info may be hidden at any time, if the LP guys decide to change the UI.
<Hobbsee> (which means it's a Very Bad Idea to have launchpad as your only easy source of this information)
<sistpoty> hm... I'm still wondering about the "how many stable releases it effects" bit, but still can't see a concrete example
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: okay
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: so, if we've had a regression, due to debian packaging, say, openssh, it's useful to check what version and release the bad change is in.
<Hobbsee> also, if we want to check when the port number has changed for a particular irc client, to check the DCC exploit.
<Hobbsee> (and how long we need to keep that document for)
<Hobbsee> also, if a person wrongly removes changes, and it gets uploaded (i've seen worse - eg, packages that get their default languages changed by accident!), there's no history to figure out what revision to look at, to get that change back again.
<sistpoty> hm... ok, that does make some sense now.. thanks Hobbsee for the examples :)
<Hobbsee> obviously, once you find the particular version you want, you can use rmadision to check what release is in each ubuntu version - but you still have to trawl through launchpad, assuming it's still there, to find it
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: y/w.
<sistpoty> siretart: I'll respin the debdiff and add the old changelog entry ;)
<siretart> and moreover, we don't have any guarantees how long launchpad will keep old versions of the package
<Hobbsee> siretart++
 * siretart increments
<Hobbsee> so there are 2 siretarts now?
<sistpoty> I guess that would be fork :P
<Hobbsee> aww
<sistpoty> ok, new debdiff attached. I even close the merge bug now :)
<Hobbsee> \o/
<siretart> hey Baby
<Hobbsee> Baby!
<Baby> hi!!! :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> If there's a bug report in LP with a "wrong" title (like I want my new foo version!!11) and it should be like "Please sync blabla", should I open a new bug or just comment to the bug and subsribe e.g. u-u-s?
<Laney> Kopfgeldjaeger: you can retitle bugs
<Kopfgeldjaeger> aah, I see :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> If a package has no Debian changes (foo 1.2.3), what should be the ubuntu version?
<Hobbsee> Kopfgeldjaeger: -0ubuntu1
<Hobbsee> ie, 1.2.3-0ubuntu1
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok, thx
<Hobbsee> Kopfgeldjaeger: ie, it isn't in debian
<Kopfgeldjaeger> well, it's in Debian but has no extra Debian changes (only *.dsc and *.orig.tar.gz, no *.diff.gz)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> eer
<Kopfgeldjaeger> no *orig*, only *.tar.gz
<Hobbsee> Kopfgeldjaeger: that means it's native.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> yeah.
<Hobbsee> which usually means it's specific to debian
<Hobbsee> so, ie, has a lot of debian changes.
<Hobbsee> you want to use something that will be overwritten if we sync from debian on a later vesrion - including if they do a point release
<Hobbsee> Kopfgeldjaeger: 1.2.3ubuntu1 is the usual naming.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> OK, thank you.
<Hobbsee> (i htink)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Just to be sure: mcpp is in universe, but still has a main-Maintainer field, right?
<Hobbsee> if it's in universe, it should have a universe maintainer field.
<Hobbsee> looks like it dropped out of main in hardy.
<sistpoty> thanks siretart
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Hobbsee: Hm. dch renamed my working directory to mcpp-2.7.1ubuntu1 and dpkg-buildpackage again built a native package. So there is no *.diff.gz against the Debian version.
<siretart> Kopfgeldjaeger: have you considered converting it to a non-native package? we are doing that for fai
<siretart> and works quite will for me
<Hobbsee> Kopfgeldjaeger: yes, you'll need to version 2.7.1-0ubuntu1 and to rename the tarball
<Hobbsee> if you want it non-native
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Oohkay. Thanks
<afflux> I just noticed that HardyReleaseSchedule lists May 29th as "bug nomination deadline". Does that mean that I can't get a fix for a bug to 8.04.1 now?
<Hobbsee> afflux: ask slangasek
<LucidFox> Riddell, are you going to package qtjambi 4.4.0?
 * sistpoty is off again... cya
<leleobhz> ping to RainCT or superm1
<RainCT> leleobhz: pong
<leleobhz> RainCT: we can discuss this now? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=handbrake
<leleobhz> i have some questions i cant handle
<RainCT> leleobhz: yeh, just ask
<leleobhz> RainCT: well, some topics is in my comment
<leleobhz> 1) Maintainer should be Ubuntu-MOTU or at least a MOTU team that will be touching this.  <-- this is a thing i dont understand
<leleobhz> it on debian/copyright?
<RainCT> leleobhz: Ah, I see.  For point 10 see file:///usr/share/doc/debian-policy/policy.html/ch-archive.html#s-priorities
<leleobhz> RainCT: im in doubt for the package sign
<RainCT> leleobhz: about 13, no. the manpage is to document how to use the command. if there's only one or two authors it can be nice to write them there too, but for 10+ that's pointless
<RainCT> (brb)
<leleobhz> RainCT: well, il mantain only the main developer
<leleobhz> RainCT: but the author requested me dont insert a help in manpage
<leleobhz> well, changing to standard so
<leleobhz> RainCT: the main problem is the developer wants to kick-off all programming standards
<leleobhz> and i dont know how to handle with it
<RainCT> (back)
<leleobhz> ^
<leleobhz> RainCT: ill need to get out and back in 30 min +-
<leleobhz> RainCT: please see what ive writed
<leleobhz> <away>
<RainCT> leleobhz: well, on Ubuntu we don't want to change standards :)
<leleobhz> [15/06-12:09:47] < RainCT> leleobhz: well, on Ubuntu we don't want to change standards :)
<leleobhz> i know
<leleobhz> this is why im getting trouble handling this
<RainCT> leleobhz: and shiping the libs with the source package will probably be rejected
<RainCT> and is anyway a bad idea
<leleobhz> RainCT: err
<leleobhz> it dont ship libraries
<leleobhz> it make a static binary
<RainCT> ah ok
<leleobhz> with patched library
<leleobhz> make sense
<RainCT> right.. dunno, I'm not a C/C++ guy
<leleobhz> ill backl
<afflux> anyone for sponsoring bug 199600? thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 199600 in aptoncd "aptoncd crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199600
<siretart> someone with java packaging experience around?
<geser> siretart: try in #ubuntu-java or try asking man-di
<siretart> afflux: is that patch coordinated with Rafael ProenÃÂ§a?
<afflux> siretart: this is the patch he included in his private package.
<siretart> okay
<siretart> afflux: I have it in my upload queue
<afflux> thanks
<LucidFox> Can FUSE modules be GPLv3+?
<LucidFox> without GPLv2?
<crimsun> LucidFox: yes, only the modules.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Could somebody look at my debdiff in the lynx bug #147058? It corrects the Maintainer field and the desktop file
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 147058 in lynx "Substandard .desktop file (patch attached)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147058
<sebner> Kopfgeldjaeger: chris cheney will look at it when he has time ;)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok
<SpookyET> hi
<leleobhz> RainCT: back
<superm1> leleobhz, if the author maintains patches to different source packages during install, the better soltuion is to determine what those patches are and why they've not been submitted upstream
 * Kopfgeldjaeger2 is writing a dirty script that downloads an old version of a package from a Debian archive site and debdiffs it against the Ubuntu version
<leleobhz> superm1: the problem is
<leleobhz> superm1: it compliles all the library static
<leleobhz> everything gets a unique binary
<superm1> geez.
<superm1> that's not a very nice packaging scheme and playing nicely with the rest of the community
<leleobhz> agreed
<leleobhz> superm1: since the build sites have no internet connection
<leleobhz> can i create a patch to create the files or something like this
<superm1> why hasn't the author submitted these other patches upstream though?
<leleobhz> superm1: i dunno
<leleobhz> superm1: it uses versions in our own site
<superm1> well i think it'd be better to find that out before you go an attempt to develop a very large patch to include all of them
<leleobhz> i really dont know what handbrake team do
<superm1> as i expect that will be very complex
<leleobhz> superm1: ill try
<superm1> especially for maintenance purposes
<leleobhz> superm1: im using dpatch... let see what happend
<superm1> there are some projects that will nest say a ffmpeg variant in themselves (xine, mplayer, mythtv), which i'm still not keen on either - but there is a defensive reason for it
<superm1> the ffmpeg in distros is unreliable to contain the exact patches needed for their solution
<SpookyET> leleobhz: have you remembered?
<superm1> and the exact build options needed
<leleobhz> SpookyET: nop. sorry
<leleobhz> arent into my files... may be something very old
<superm1> so if a majority of the patches here are applicable to upstream projects that they pull during build, then i say it's better for them to fix that and play nicer before they're allowed in ubuntu
<leleobhz> superm1: but handbrakes compiles everything into one binary
<leleobhz> no libraries, notting
<leleobhz> its a "hardcoded" binary :p
<leleobhz> this is the build mode...
<superm1> right.  i'm just saying get an answer from upstream as to "why" it has to be that way
<superm1> why they're patches can't go into the projects.  why they can't use dynamic libraries instead etc
<superm1> rather than immediately jumping to the conclusion that "it has to be that way"
<leleobhz> superm1: well, ive asked, and the team said they want (and simply)
<leleobhz> and if im not happy.... you know
<superm1> ugh. hate working with people like that :)
<leleobhz> superm1: :]
<leleobhz> so im trying to best serve both teams... but is too hard
<leleobhz> superm1: ill try to make the patch
<superm1> well this is my recommendation then:
<superm1> add a get-orig-source rule
<superm1> that will grab all that stuff you need and repack the orig.tar.gz
<leleobhz> hm
<Lutin> how can one get ARG_MAX in intrepid ? is #include <linux/limits.h> the only solution ?
<superm1> and in debian/copyright explain why it's repacked like that
<leleobhz> superm1: hmmm.... but if i use uupdate in future, it may crash
<leleobhz> will not?
<superm1> have a dpatch that modifies their build system to not wget, but instead use the prepackaged source packages in the orig.tar.gz
<SpookyET> leleobhz: how many debs do you have? how many use cdbs?
<superm1> you wont have to use uue
<leleobhz> superm1: the jam detect if the file exists
<superm1> leleobhz, so before jam runs, you will unpack the orig.tar.gz
<superm1> and place the files where they need to go
<superm1> so jam can find them
<superm1> you can do all that in debian/rules before you get to jam
<leleobhz> superm1: im telling about in a upgrade case
<superm1> the get-orig-source will be ran when/before you build the source package and upload it somewhere
<superm1> please elaborate.  i'll brb
<leleobhz> ?
<leleobhz> ill se what can i do
<superm1> leleobhz, for upgrade scenarios (new upstream version), the orig.tar.gz will just be rebuilt by a MOTU updating it
<superm1> that will grab the new versions and repack the orig.tar.gz for the new upstream version
<leleobhz> superm1: ill try to do
<leleobhz> may need a patch to download everything... but its ok
<superm1> leleobhz, just handle that in debian/rules if you can in that get-orig-source.  even if it comes down to a nasty huge wget loop that parses the jam file for URLs etc
<Riddell> kubuntu tutorials day happening now in #kubuntu-devel
<leleobhz> wow
<Kopfgeldjaeger2> http://tinyurl.com/6399j6 - what do you think about this? I know it's really dirty ;) -- [ ] already exists [ ] who needs that? [ ] ok [ ] 424 script too ugly
<cyberix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pq/+bug/237300 Why was this changed to invalid for wine?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 237300 in wine "main window disappears from the Window list" [Undecided,New]
<cyberix> Oh. I go ask #launchpad
<cyberix> might be a bug in platform
<LinuxMonkey> hi guys
 * gsdf http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1390137/amazing_trick_with_coins nice video o_0
<jpds> right...
<LinuxMonkey> I dont think ill be visiting that site ever
<jpds> LinuxMonkey: yes, probably for the best
<LinuxMonkey> ive been reading up on MOTU and the more and more I read up on it the more and more I want to contribute.lol
<i4x> ppl, anyone knows how do I use postinst to prompt for a password while installing a .deb package in gui?
<i4x> not with the terminal!!
<pochu> i4x: use debconf
<i4x> pochu: can u give me a quick explain..?
<norsetto> yawwwnnn
<norsetto> err, hello
<i4x> hi!
<LinuxMonkey> just woke up?
<pochu> !debconf | i4x
<ubottu> i4x: debconf is a configuration management system. All packages that support debconf are configured when they are being installed. If you want to change a configuration option later, you can do so using dpkg-reconfigure
<LinuxMonkey> If i want to get involved in motu I need to install the Devlopment Release right?
<pochu> not necessarily
<pochu> but that would help
<norsetto> LinuxMonkey: if you know how to make and use a chroot, that would be the better option
<LinuxMonkey> norsetto: i can learn.lol
<norsetto> LinuxMonkey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<LinuxMonkey> norsetto: kinda funny i was just reading that
<norsetto> LinuxMonkey: I actually have a separate partition with the development release, and just chroot to it when I need
<LinuxMonkey> norsetto: nice
<LinuxMonkey> i think i got a free partition i can use.
<i4x> norsetto: can you help me with one little thing?
<norsetto> i4x: just a moment
<i4x> ok I'll wait.. but anyway: how do I prompt a question (like the one in this example: http://pastebin.com/m39cbfbbe ) without using the terminal? the package won't be installed from the terminal, so I'm trying to prompt the question within the gui!! (if you know what I mean!)
<i4x> norsetto: ^^^
<norsetto> i4x: I don't think you can
<i4x> hmm..
<i4x> so I'll have to open a terminal and make the question there, right?
<LinuxMonkey> norsetto: i got a 40GB partition, i think thats big ennought, what do u think? and should i mount it as /var/chroot?
<norsetto> LinuxMonkey: 4 GB would be quite allright already, you can use any mount point you want
<sebner> huhu norsetto =)
<norsetto> heya sebner
<norsetto> i4x: not necessarily, the package manager will do that for you
<i4x> norsetto: will it? if I use something like http://pastebin.com/m39cbfbbe it will be prompt for the user?
<i4x> norsetto: I'm just trying to ask the user the password (for 'mysql -p < db.sql') that normally is asked if the installation is made from the terminal!!
<i4x> if I run a script with ï»¿'mysql -p < db.sql' it doesn't ask anything!
<norsetto> i4x: check the wiki for debconf
<i4x> norsetto: that's where I  found that example you saw!.. but I've tried some scripts with those examples, and no1 asked anything while running within the gui!!
<i4x> only asked if running the script in terminal!!
<norsetto> i4x: sorry, I only use apt, I wouldn't know what other package managers can or can't do
<emgent> norsetto: o/
<norsetto> emgent: o\
<i4x> hmm..
<LinuxMonkey> should i add it to my fstab norsetto or manually mount it when i need it?
<norsetto> LinuxMonkey: I manually mount it when I need it, you can of course do as you prefer
<i4x> norsetto: you use apt.. with terminal, right?
<norsetto> i4x: yes
<i4x> well then.. thx!!! I'll make it open a terminal and ask the password!
<LinuxMonkey> norsetto: i like your way of thinking :) manual mount it is.
<LinuxMonkey> im following the guide to get chroot's installed and all and in the guide it has user doko (im guessing im supposed to change that to my username?)
<LinuxMonkey> norsetto, i4x  know the answer to the question above or do i just put it as its showing on system
<norsetto> LinuxMonkey: ?
<i4x> LinuxMonkey: did you call me?
<LinuxMonkey> im at the part it says Then append this line in /etc/schroot/schroot.conf:
<LinuxMonkey> on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<LinuxMonkey> anyone available to help me with my chroot config for a sec. Im following this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot and under the section Installing and configuring schroot
<devfil> someone can review pidgin-msn-pecan package in revu? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=pidgin-msn-pecan
<i4x> LinuxMonkey: sorry if you asked me for help, but I can't help you!
<LinuxMonkey> were it says Then append this line in /etc/schroot/schroot.conf:  ... i know i need to change the [hardy] to the release name, what im not sure is the users=doko im guessing i need to change that to my user name is that true
<joaopinto> that name is just a lable, set to something that matches your schroot content
<joaopinto> i mean, label
<LinuxMonkey> joaopinto: i know the [hardy] is a label,  but bellow it has users=doko thats what im asking about
<joaopinto> that is just an access list
<LinuxMonkey> thanks joaopinto
<lukehasnonam1> Bug 239072
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239072 in jockey "Driver manager doesn't detect correct drivers for 8800M" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239072
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-08
<jmarsden> Is there a way to see whether an automated sync for a package is pending?  Or why one may have been reverted?  I thought bibletime 2.0-1 was already synced into Karmic, but now rmadison says 1.6.5.1-1 is there instead.
<ScottK> There's no way to revert it, so it's pretty certain it was never there.
<ScottK> If it's unmodified in Ubuntu and has a higher version in Debian, it should get sync'ed.
<jmarsden> OK, could be just my memory playing tricks on me.  Is there a way to see that it will be synced, or to find out when the next automated sync will happen?
<ScottK> The next time is 'when an archive admin does it', so not really.
<jmarsden> Oh, OK :)
<vorian> phoooey!
<directhex> i think YokoZar's talk at UDS gets specific credence when you have major companies like electronic arts shipping windows games with a wine derivative as an official mac port
<YokoZar> directhex: yeah I didn't mention Cider but that's not a bad point.  In principle we can offer the same thing for Linux but better (since Wine > Cedega)
<directhex> YokoZar, well, sure. of course, defining "we can offer" is key. not many corps wanna open the support can of worms of officially supporting linux via wine
<directhex> YokoZar, i'd certainly expect apps with cider "ports" to be pretty well-behaved in wine
<YokoZar> directhex: Right, they'd like to pass that off onto a company like Transgaming.  I think a company like Codeweavers (or even Canonical) could do that but better
<YokoZar> Once it works in Wine, supporting it is basically a matter of not breaking it with new Wine updates on distro release
<directhex> plus possible copy protection woe
<YokoZar> Assuming nothing else on the system breaks (which is why I pointed at Canonical as a source of support -- if it is a Wine issue that can generally be worked around by using the specific tested version or just delaying the port)
<YokoZar> Copy protection woes can be dealt with by not porting copy-protected apps that don't work in Wine ;)
<YokoZar> Truthfully, though, most of Wine's copy protection breakage has to do with CD-based software
<directhex> bleh. well, the BNP got a seat in the EU parliament, but at least it wasn't from the south east
<prefrontal> i must master the universe
<prefrontal> has anyone used svn2cl from the subversion-tools package to create debian/changelog from a subversion repository?
<dtchen> huh.
<dtchen> why does explicitly build-depending on libghc6-utf8-string-prof (>= 0.3.4-4) instead of libghc6-utf8-string-dev (>= 0.3.4-4),libghc6-utf8-string-prof work?
<lifeless> dtchen: probably due to a matching version deb on the two string packages
<dholbach> good morning
<al-maisan> moin dholbach :)
<dholbach> hola al-maisan!
<dholbach> Â¿como estas? :)
<al-maisan> ah, we are still holding on to some of the Barcelona flair :)
<dholbach> :)
<fabrice_sp> Hey dholbach ! good morning
<fabrice_sp> good morning al-maisan
<dholbach> hiya fabrice_sp!
<al-maisan> hello fabrice_sp, good morning to you :)
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<fabrice_sp> so dholbach, how was this spanish trip?
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: Barcelona is very very nice
<fabrice_sp> yes, that's true: it's a very nice city. I love that 'GaudÃ­' touch
<dholbach> exactly
<rawang> hi, please How to add a extra package while pbuildering something?
<jmarsden> rawang: http://wiki.debian.org/PbuilderTricks
<rawang> jmarsden, great!, thank you so much :)
<jmarsden> No problem :)
<gpocentek> morning
<gpocentek> is somebody taking care of gnome-chemistry-utils (MOTU science maybe)?
<qiyong> how to setup a local archive for pxe ?
<jmarsden> qiyong: It is a bit old, but see http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/10/11/how-to-configure-pxe-network-booting-on-ubuntu-for-network-based-installations/
<qiyong> jmarsden: i want to use a local LAN archive
<jmarsden> I don't understand... you don't have a Ubuntu machine to act as the tftp server?
<qiyong> jmarsden: archive.ubuntu.com
<qiyong> like that
<jmarsden> For PXE???  Sorry, I do not understand your request.
<jmarsden> PXE uses a local LAN where there is a TFTP server with certain files on it...
<jmarsden> If you just want to make a local Ubuntu archive machine, look at using apt-mirror or apt-proxy -- but that has nothing to do with PXE at all, as far as I know.
<jmarsden> For that, see tutorials like http://www.howtoforge.com/local_debian_ubuntu_mirror
<robinp> if i want to create a java package as part of my packaging, can I include the jni, jar and doc in one deb or does it need to be split like normal c libs ?
<directhex> robinp, best to ask someone on the java team. i suspect (i'm guessing) that'd be #debian-java on oftc. but google might know better
<slytherin> robinp: split it.
<robinp> ok so one package for each? libfoon-jni , libfoon-jar , libfoon-java-doc ?
<juanje> hi, could anyone review this package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mount-systray
<juanje> or this one? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/backintime
<juanje> please ;-)
<slytherin> robinp: right
<rawang> jmarsden, Iâve tried in many ways, but it always says " blahblah (>=1.0) which is a virtual package"
<slytherin> rawang: for which package do you get that error?
<rawang> slytherin, a mono package
<slytherin> rawang: I mean what is 'blahblah'?
<rawang> slytherin, I built package A which depends on B, and B is built out already, B is also a local package
<rawang> sladen, mono-uia
<slytherin> rawang: if B is local package, is it installed inside pbuilder?
<rawang> slytherin, yeah, I update pbuilderrc, and have a Dxxxxx script in the hook dir
<rawang> slytherin, but it appears to it is not include the local repo in the pbuilder environment :(
<slytherin> rawang: if you updated the pbuilderrc, did you to 'pbuilder --update --override-config' after that?
<rawang> slytherin, yes, I did
<slytherin> rawang: In what component does your package live in the local repository? (main/universe etc.)
<rawang> slytherin, COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse"  in my ~/.pbuilderrc
<slytherin> rawang: can't help beyond this
<rawang> slytherin, could you take a loot at http://paste2.org/p/251755 ?
<rawang> slytherin, thank you so much! ;)
<slytherin> rawang: what is this - tmp/hooks/D05deps: 2: apt-ftparchive: not found?
<rawang> slytherin, the content of script is
<rawang> (cd /var/cache/pbuilder/aptcache; apt-ftparchive packages . > Packages)
<rawang> #1/bin/bash
<rawang> (cd /var/cache/pbuilder/aptcache; apt-ftparchive packages . > Packages)
<rawang> and apt-get update
<rawang> just 3 lines
<directhex> rawang, do you have the apt-ftparchive command installed?
<rawang> directhex, hmm, I think so,
<directhex> do you know so?
<rawang> directhex, in my system environment or pbuilder envinronment ?
<slytherin> rawang: I am not very much familiar with using local repositories in pbuilder. May be someone can help you.
<directhex> rawang, outside, by the look of it
<rawang> slytherin, sure, thank you all the same ;)
<directhex> rawang, although i could be wrong
<rawang> directhex, apt-ftparchive is in apt-utils
<rawang> directhex, and I have it installed
<directhex> hm. dunno, i don't use a local repo in my pbuilders
<rawang> directhex, but how did resolve the thing like if your package A depends on B, B is a local package?
<rawang> directhex, how did you add B to fulfill the dependency?
<directhex> rawang, generally? uploading B to a PPA, or by manually using "pbuilder login" ;)
<directhex> which is a workaround and hack, to be sure
<rawang> directhex, emm, Okey ;)
<rawang> directhex, but what is reason why around line 87?
<rawang> directhex, libmono-sqlite2.0-cil: Depends: libsqlite3-0 (>= 3.6.13) but it is not installable
<directhex> rawang, your 2.4 repo, wherever it may be, was compiled against a newer version of sqlite than is in jaunty
<rawang> directhex, oh, ok, I use meebey's repository,
<directhex> rawang, which has dependencies for debian unstable
<rawang> directhex, even mono 2.4 is found, why the libsqlite is not found?
<directhex> rawang, because debian unstable has a newer version of sqlite
<directhex> rawang, try https://launchpad.net/~directhex/+archive/monoxide instead
<rawang> directhex, wow, thanks, great! :)
<slytherin> directhex: some entertainment on u-d-d list. :-)
<directhex> slytherin, indeed
<directhex> slytherin, i get this daily so i'm used to it
<slytherin> directhex: what I find amusing is that this guy always backs up his claims with 'because Roy Schestowitz said so'.
<directhex> slytherin, looks like poor maco is trying really hard to present a sane, rational viewpoint in response. good luck to her - i doubt i could reply to a poster like that without violating the CoC
<\sh> slytherin: if you mean the rant of "Karl Fink"...
<directhex> \sh, he does
<ogra> directhex, just invoke godwins law ;)
<\sh> directhex: it's correct that there are reasonable concerns regarding mono and patents and MS...but technology wise...it should be included in any distro
<directhex> \sh, there are reasonable concerns. the reasonable voices are drowned out by guys like this mark fink fellow
<directhex> \sh, the jack thompson effect
<\sh> directhex: that's why I replied, if he wants to shout and scream, he should shout and scream about any other "patent related sources" we have, too...best example always: mp3 ;)
<directhex> \sh, or firefox (AJAX, XPCOM). people love to pretend AJAX isn't a patented MSIE extension
<\sh> directhex: indeed
<\sh> ogra: invoking Godwins Law is a good idea ;) but be sure you have your "Nazometer" [(C) by Schmidt + Pocher] handy ;)
<ogra> haha
<binarymutant> if someone could review this package, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple , I would be very appreciative :)
<robinp> how do you get cdbs to build sub-dirs in the /debian/tmp for the make install run ?
<azeem_> robinp: build sub-dirs?
<azeem> the upstream build system should create the directories it needs for make install
<\sh> anyone knows the nick of "Bhavani Shankar"?
<robinp> azeem: as far as i can tell - it assumes that those dirs already exist ..... doh!
<thekorn> \sh, coolbhavi, according to his lp profile
<\sh> thekorn: yeah...just looked it up :) thx :)
<pan1nx> I have a questoin for MOTU members
<pan1nx> If you have a bug/RFP that it is solved in somebody's PPA, what do you? Do you take that somebody's ppa, move it to REVU, or what?
<davideotape> Hi guys :)
<slytherin> \sh: any particular reason you needed nick of Bhavani? H doesn't seem to be very active these days on IRC.
<slytherin> pan1nx: You request that person to move the package to REVU.
<\sh> slytherin: because of drupal5 merge...but I took it now...working on drupal anyways
<slytherin> \sh: ok
<slytherin> Has anyone tried VLC 1.0 RC2 with blue ray discs? The release notes say that it has blue ray support.
 * \sh doesn't even have a blueray player at all..
<directhex> slytherin, i have not tried this. does that mean AACS decoding, or simply it'll open pre-ripped blu-ray m2ts files without choking?
<directhex> slytherin, also, can i have your opinion on a package split?
<directhex> the decoders list certainly seems to include all those pesky codecs
<slytherin> directhex: 1. Release notes just says experimental support for blue ray disc (http://www.videolan.org/developers/vlc/NEWS). 2. Tell me which package.
<directhex> slytherin, ikvm. i just finished updating in svn to a new upstream release, which splits up the openjdk classlib to an extent where a monolithic package seems to make even less sense than it used to. the current package split looks like this: http://paste.debian.net/38367/
<slytherin> directhex: Looks sane to me provided dependencies are managed properly. You may also want to ask other java devs like geser, persia, doko.
<directhex> slytherin, haven't seen any sign of doko for ages
<directhex> geser, persia?
<directhex> slytherin, we have automatic dependency generation for things, so i'm mostly trying to work out a conceptually sane path more than anything else
 * directhex begins the timer, just for \sh 
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> directhex: last post to that topic...promised..
<directhex> \sh, oh, feel free to do whatever you like! it saves me the task
<directhex> \sh, and as i said earlier, i can't imagine a CoC-compatible way to respond to that guy
<xnox> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/jaunty/release/source/
<xnox> Can you spot GPL violation? =D
<xnox> I'm not sure what is the appropriate way to file a bug about this. Source CD is size 0
<directhex> xnox, it's not a GPL violation, in that all the source IS available. it's annoying, though, certainly
<xnox> Do we do source cd qa testing btw?
<xnox> directhex: well ok it is available over the internet in the archive
<xnox> So who do I ping / contact to resolve this?
<xnox> A bug against xubuntu-desktop?
<directhex> i'd ask in #ubuntu-devel, they know more about cd creation in there, and can direct you to the right package
<maco> directhex, my view on the mono thing is that ok, sure, as with any time the US patent system gets involved with software, there's a danger. suing all those users...not feasible. at worst, they say we cant include it by default...in which case...well, hopefully these aren't the only decent apps because when you rely on the one good app, you still run the risk of the dev falling off the face of the earth
<directhex> indeed
<mok0>  maco: mononono comes to the rescue :-)
<directhex> still, good effort on trying to inject sanity onto that thread, shame reason only works on reasonable people
<directhex> mok0, nothing says "freedom" like equivs!
<mok0> he
<robinp> ok im loosing my sanity, please help me.... I'm trying to create a multi-package debian/rules file using cdbs - however my upstream Makefile doesn't check that the /debian/tmp/foo/bar dirs are there when it tries to copy them there as part of the install process. I have tried adding a foo.install with /debian/tmp/foo/bar but it doesn't seem to work.
<azeem> robinp: to create dirs, use debian/foo.dirs
<azeem> robinp: and/or fix the upstream build system
<robinp> i tried the foo.dirs thing with no love their either
<robinp> how does a Makefile normally check for the existance of the destination ?
<azeem> it justs creates the directories it wants to install files to
<mok0> robinp: just do it in rules before you call make, that way you don't need to mess with upstream's makefiles
<Kage[Work]> In ubuntu-vm-builder, is there a way to NOT make the qcow, only generate the XML file
<Kage[Work]> I'm looking for a way that I can just have a template qcow prepared, and when I want to make new VMs, generate a new XML and copy the template qcow
<Kage[Work]> This is just for rapid test environments that we want prepared, so we don't have to wait an hour for a VM to build
<Kage[Work]> The primary reason for why I ask this, instead of simply generating XML files and injecting our test qcow, is because of the uuid portion of the definition
<Kage[Work]> Unless that uuid doesn't need to be in the format it is in
<Kage[Work]> If so, would simply using MD5 hashes work?
<Kage[Work]> No one here messes with this stuff, eh?
<jpds> Kage[Work]: Maybe #ubuntu-virt ?
<Kage[Work]> Oh, didn't know of that channel
<mok0> Kage[Work]: I'd like to know how to generate the XML files too, for existing images created by other means
<mok0> Kage[Work]: soren is the one to ask
<bddebian> Heya gang
<iulian> Hi bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<directhex> maco, that thread is getting increasingly epic
<directhex> maco, i love how he cites the boycottnovell wiki, which calls tomboy a gnote clone
<highvoltage> can Mark Fink please be moderated on the list?
<highvoltage> he's really annoying.
<directhex> highvoltage, from my perspective, people like mark are great, as they drown out voices of rational critics like \sh. which saves me lots of time & effort :p
<jpds> highvoltage: What, where?
<popey> jpds: ubuntu-devel-discuss
<popey> i suspect you will be able to spot the thread
<directhex> popey is on oxlug :o
<popey> moderating him will in all likelyhood add fuel to his fire
<popey> directhex: I'm on every lug list :)
<popey> I think
<highvoltage> directhex: heh
<highvoltage> dpm: ubuntu-devel mailing list
<directhex> popey, moderating him would indeed proove his "censorship of mono opposition" point
<popey> exactly
<directhex> popey, evidently he lacks the sense to understand "correlation does not imply causation"
<highvoltage> hmm, yes that's probably true
<directhex> anyway, minibus time
<maco> directhex, who's dereck?
<dpm> highvoltage: anything in particular I should be looking at on the ubuntu-devel mailing list?
<maco> not u-d, u-d-d
<maco> dpm, ^
<dpm> ok, thanks maco
<popey> "shameful censoring of mono opposition"
 * dpm reading...
 * slytherin feels bad about direct attack on directhex. :-(
<highvoltage> dpm: sorry, yes, it's on the -discuss list, nothing serious, just a troll causing noise
<popey> slytherin: he's big enough and ugly enough to look after himself :)
 * jpds hugs directhex.
 * popey hugs jpds 
<jpds> Right, LoCo DNS changing time... fun!
<directhex> maco, i don't know who derek is, btw. possibly it's just low-level background trolling against fink?
<\sh> siretart: ping if you have some time...do you actually install ubuntu clients via debian {lenny,etch} FAI?
<siretart`> \sh: no. I have an hardy FAI server installing hardy workstations here
<\sh> siretart`: just asking because I'm running into serious problems regarding menu.lst and the crappy ucf stuff
<siretart`> yes, ubuntu's move to ucf in grub has horribly broken the default FAI scripts here
<\sh> this ucf --purge /var/run/grub/menu.lst doesn't help..because it comes up with an not-going-to-like-preseeding debconf screen
<siretart`> TBH, grub is rather annoying me these days
<\sh> http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/journal/2008-06/004.html
<siretart`> \sh: what do you think about using ext2linux instead?
<\sh> siretart`: ?? ext2linux?
<siretart`> \sh: that's the syslinux variant for booting from ext2 filesystems
<\sh> siretart`: does it like smartarrays from HP? ;)
<siretart`> I wouldn't be surprised if it would like them more than grub :-)
<\sh> siretart`: pointer?
<siretart`> other option would be grub2
<\sh> or lilo ;)
<siretart`> nah, lilo is braindead
<siretart`> http://syslinux.zytor.com/wiki/index.php/EXTLINUX
<siretart`> s/braindead/backwards/
<\sh> tbh...I would like to fix grub and ucf instead
<siretart`> and also 'apt-cache show syslinux'
<siretart`> I've tried and in the end got distracted working in FAI completely because of that mess
<siretart`> that's why I'm proposing an alternative bootloader
<siretart`> the nice thing about extlinux is that its configuration is really easy
<\sh> siretart`: what about kernel updates via apt-get ?
<siretart`> what about them?
<\sh> siretart`: you need to adjust the syslinux config manually, or?
<siretart`> I think you can configure the kernel-image's postinst to maintain a symlink to the 'latest' bootable kernel image
<siretart`> just make extlinux boot resolve that symlink
<siretart`> I never done this myself, but I think it would be worth a try
<siretart`> ah, yes, just keep 'do_symlinks = yes' in /etc/kernel-img.conf
<siretart`> you can even configure if you want the symlinks in / or in /boot
<\sh> siretart`: so that there is always a link in /vmlinuz e.g.
<siretart`> yes, the extlinux' documentation even claims to follow symlinks.
<siretart`> \sh: exactly
<\sh> k...that would be a nice workaround
<siretart`> \sh: shall we phone up about this?
<siretart`> I'm on the leave...
<\sh> siretart`: let's do it tomorrow then...I want to go home too...right now I'm so fcked up because of something else...I need peace and a beer ;)
<siretart`> okay, see you tomorrow then!
<\sh> siretart`: have a nice one :) greetings to your better half :)
<siretart`> \sh: greetings to your child and wife as well! :-)
<siretart`> ciao
<\sh> maco: please make that stop on u-d-d ;)
<maco> \sh, they seem to have stopped for the last couple of hours
<directhex> :(
<maco> maybe its daytime in Trolland (trolls are creatures of the night, you see)
<directhex> booooring!
<directhex> and my blog post on respect is hiding, as my webhost is down
<\sh> maco: oh...then I can post my "Please remove lame, all mp3 encs/decs + all h264 etc. and all questionable video/audio codecs" trollspeech
<\sh> ,-)
<directhex> \sh, some of those are actually enforced. try the "OOo, firefox, kernel" one
<maco> \sh, scott told him to file a bug about the kernel being a target of microsoft's patent attacks and requesting that it be removed from the archive
<\sh> maco: just read it..and in the whole discussion keybuks reply was the most sane one...especially why he would like it ;)
 * maco used the "best of breed" phrase in the thread first
<\sh> directhex: before I do that, I enforce godwins law ,-)
<\sh> but really before I enforce this law...I would swear about ucf and menu.lst
<directhex> now, imagine a thread like this, including the personal attacks, daily. people wonder why i'm sometimes standoffish! \o/
<\sh> directhex: TBH...sometimes calling people "morons" help a lot...actually I do this all the time in my office...because doing this on an aggregated blog gives more action ;)
<directhex> \sh, "Ridicule is he only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them" -- thomas jefferson
<\sh> he's damn right :)
<directhex> i think ridicule breaks CoC though ;)
<\sh> hey...it's jefferson
<\sh> directhex: anyways the discussion is useless.mono as technology needs to be in a unix distro...and about the other concerns...let the judge do the job
<directhex> \sh, you're preaching to the wrong man, i think ;)
<\sh> directhex: /me != mono fanboy ;) but I do like technology...so you're right ;)
<\sh> and C# is an easy language...just like VB ;)
<directhex> \sh, as the vb.net packager for debbuntu, let me say on the record: **** VB. it's a language from hell, and nobody should ever use it. BUT - there are people who know it, e.g. students, and they shouldn't be excluded from ubuntu
<directhex> maco, \sh, yay, my blog is back online, so my post about "censorship" is up \o/
<neurobuntu> Hi.. I'm trying to package up hdf5-1.8.3  for a project I'm working on. i think i've done a decent job of it so far; however, I don't understand everything I'm doing and was wondering if there are any MOTU's willing to sponsor/give me a guiding hand with this project.  HDF5 is a pretty extensive library that is used in all sorts of scientific computing applications and I think the community would benefit from having verion 1.8.3 packaged (even if u
<neurobuntu> nofficially)
<fabrice_sp_> neurobuntu, you can post your questions here
<fabrice_sp_> and eventually publish your package in a ppa
<xnox> neurobuntu: hdf5 some of my packages use hdf5.
<xnox> have you thought of co-maintaining it in Debian?
<xnox> There is a team doing it. Although maybe they are not quite up-to date cause stable, testing and unstable all have 1.6.6-4
<\sh> hmm..I wanted to go home around 6 UTC...and now it's 9 UTC...how nice
<\sh> and good night folks
<binarymutant> if anyone has some time I have some questions regarding licenses and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple , I was under the impression that it isn't policy just suggested
<kklimonda> what to do if there is a bug in jaunty package that will stop application from working after upgrade to karmic?
<kklimonda> i mean where should SRU go to?
<kklimonda> if it goes only to -updates if somebody is only subscribed to -security is going to miss it.
<nhandler> binarymutant: Sorry for not going into more detail (I was rushed when writing the comment). The headers afaik are not required. However, you should still contact upstream and try to get them added. The other issue is an issue still needs to get fixed
<binarymutant> nhandler, thanks for the reply, I did start an issue on upstream's tracker but I'm not sure if they are agreeing to it :/
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-09
<neurobuntu_> xnox, I've thought about trying to get debian to move to hdf5-1.8.3 but they say they have their reason to stay on 1.6.6....    so the problems I'm having is I can get the hdf5 deb to build and it installs the files in the right places, but then when I try to build packages that depend on HDF5 i get the following error: dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/libhdf5_cpp.so.6
<neurobuntu_> I've checked in /usr/lib/ and the libhdf5_cpp.so.6 is there but for some reason its not found when trying to build debs that depend on it
<neurobuntu_> so I guess I was looking to see if someone could coach me through this problem
<maxb> neurobuntu_: That error is not saying that the library itself could not be found - rather that the debian dependency information that enables dpkg to build proper package dependencies is missing
<maxb> neurobuntu_: Normally this file would be constructed by dh_makeshlibs during the hdf5 deb build process
<directhex> maco, endless thread is endless
<ajmitch> directhex: s/endless/pointless/
<neurobuntu_> maxb, so I call dh_makeshlibs during build, is there a way that i can verify that dpkg is building the proper dependencies?
<neurobuntu_> I call dh_makeshlibs during the build of hdf5
<maxb> What do you mean by "proper"?
<maxb> There should be a shlibs control file present in the final .deb
<directhex> ajmitch, nah, at some point mark will force an epiphany from those who disagree with him, and shuttleworth himself will descend in his space ship to explode the offending packages with lasers
<directhex> à²¥_à²¥ ...Beautiful.
<dtchen> directhex: that thread totally went plonk
<neurobuntu_> maxb, thanks for your help the control file isn't in there
<directhex> dtchen, went?
<dtchen> directhex: killfiled the mono thread
<directhex> dtchen, /dev/null seems somehow insufficient. can you pipe into shred?
<dtchen> sorry, already breaking other ubuntu components with shred ;-)
<StevenK> dtchen: Like pulse? :-P
<dtchen> :-P
<maxb> neurobuntu_: Is your source package published anywhere?
<neurobuntu_> maxb, yes its up on launchpad
<neurobuntu_> maxb, https://launchpad.net/~soma-testing/+archive/ppa
<neurobuntu_> so my rules file does have the command:  dh_makeshlibs -phdf5-serial-1.8.3-0 -v hdf5-serial-1.8.3-0  but when i examine the contents of the compiled deb with dpkg -c I don't see a control file
<neurobuntu_> this is what i get http://paste2.org/p/253075
<ajmitch> directhex: so, starting on the port/rewrite of f-spot to C?
<directhex> ajmitch, i heard hub was thinking of doing it
<ajmitch> oh good
<directhex> ajmitch, let's ignore the fact that his implementation method involves implementing parts of ECMA 334
<ajmitch> but it's not on the mono runtime, so it's ok
<directhex> if only pnet didn't suck
<ajmitch> it wouldn't make any difference what the runtime was called
<maxb> neurobuntu_: The shlibs file is present - the significance of it being a "control" file is that it is not part of the data files shown with -c
<maxb> 'dpkg -I foo.deb' lists the control overview info, 'dpkg -I foo.deb shlibs' shows the shlibs control file specifically
<maxb> However, the content of it looks a bit wrong to me
<neurobuntu_> maxb, what kind of things look wrong?
<maxb> The version field of the shlibs line is wrong
 * h6w wonders how others do package management from cvs/svn/bzr.
<h6w> I'm using ant (command-line).  If I create a release folder and ignore it from svn/bzr then put the src zips, previous packages, and diffs in there, does that make sense?
<h6w> I'm replicating this process across a number of projects, so I want to get it right for most/all cases.
<h6w> So, I was thinking of having an ant script that looks for that folder grabs the most recent package/diff in there for that stream (e.g. Nightly), takes a release version parameter, then creates a new package/diff from the current src and puts it back in the release folder.
<maxb> neurobuntu_: In 'dh_makeshlibs -phdf5-serial-1.8.3-0 -v hdf5-serial-1.8.3-0' what is the second repetition of the package name trying to achieve? I think it may be redundant / broken
<neurobuntu_> maxb, I'm not sure... I was using the debian dir from hdf5-1.6.5 as a template and that is how they did it
<neurobuntu_> i just recompiled to see the lintian errors, some of them might be relevant http://paste2.org/p/253096
<maxb> It's unrelated to the shlibs problem, but your ppa upload is accidentally a native package, btw
<maxb> .tar.gz, not .orig.tar.gz and .diff.gz
<neurobuntu_> maxb, i'm aware...
<maxb> Gah, what on earth have upstream done with their tarball!?
<maxb> Somehow they've got two entries in the tarball with the same file name!
<maxb> Anyway
<maxb> neurobuntu_: So the problem with the shlibs is that they have an explicitly built shlibs file in the package, which doesn't correspond with the libraries actually built in this new version
<neurobuntu_> in upstream?
<maxb> See the shlibs.in file and the code which processes it into a shlibs file in debian/rules
<maxb> No, in the previous debian package
<neurobuntu_> ahh...
<neurobuntu_> maxb, they use that @VERSION@ variable all over the place and it has been giving me problems in the past... do you think i should just replace it with 1.8.3
<binarymutant> if anyone has some time to revu http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple , I would be greatly appreciative :)
<maxb> neurobuntu_: No, that's not the problem - it's apparently expecting the version number to be present in the library filenames, but in your case: the version is NOT in the name
<neurobuntu_> huh? i'm confused how is the version number not in the filenames?
<neurobuntu_> :-/
<neurobuntu_> isn't 1.8.3 the version number?
<maxb> Yes, and it's not in your library filenames
<neurobuntu_> maxb, you're talking about the names of the .debs created or something else?
<maxb> It looks like you've not forward-ported the debian customizations to the build system
<maxb> I'm talking about the names of the .so files
<neurobuntu_> hmm... ok
<maxb> You're missing debian-specific changes to the libtool invocations, which is why your build results don't agree with what the package is expecting
<neurobuntu_> maxb, might it be better to build this on a debian machine then?
<neurobuntu_> except that won't gaurentee it works with ubuntu then....
<maxb> Uh, no, that's not what I mean at all
<maxb> I mean debian-specific as in "not upstream" rather than "not ubuntu"
<neurobuntu_> maxb what would you recommend I do? try to get someone who knows more then me to package it for me.... start from square one and get rid off the debian/ i borrowed from 1.6.5? buy out a motu for a weekend?
<neurobuntu_> the more I learn about library packaging the more I realize i don't understand and I'm really starting to doubt I can get this thing package properly
<maxb> The problem is that you've taken the Debian hdf5 1.6.x package as a base but you have not properly updated the patches it applies to the upstream source to apply to 1.8.x
<maxb> Unfortunately your job is made much harder by the way they've apparently completely changed the buildsystem upstream
<neurobuntu_> :-|
<maxb> I don't suppose debian intend to update their package any time soon?
<neurobuntu_> maxb, nope I was asking to see when they were going to update and nobody could tell me
<neurobuntu_> when you say i  "need to update the patches" you're not referring to patches in the debian dir are you? when i do apt-get source libhdf5-serial-1.6.6 I don't see any patches under the debian dir
<maxb> zcat hdf5_1.6.6-4ubuntu1.diff.gz | lsdiff
<maxb> The .diff.gz doesn't just create the debian/ dir, it also changes some of the upstream files
<maxb> Before you get too scared looking at that... some of the files changed are the result of autogeneration
<maxb> but some are not
<neurobuntu_> maxb, wow ok well I can't express how helpful you've been tonight I'll hit the net and try to better understand what debian is doing before they package....  thanks again for your help I'm sure i'll end up in here again sometime
<maxb> neurobuntu_: you've seen the README.Debian_shlib file, right?
<neurobuntu_> yes
<maxb> The key additional libtool flags regarding that change are -release $(H5_VERSION) -version-info 0
<neurobuntu_> so does that readme mean that i have to setup the appropriate symlinks
<qiyong> what is this repos?
<qiyong> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/
<qiyong> jaunty or karmic?
<StevenK> Every release currently on archive.u.c
<StevenK> Dapper, Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty and Karmic
<qiyong> my local repos created from the CD only contains one single file as:
<qiyong> ubuntu/pool/main/r/ruby1.8/
<qiyong> libruby1.8_1.8.7.72-3_i386.deb	
<qiyong> why?
<qiyong> StevenK: ^
<StevenK> I have no idea, since I don't know how you created your local repo
<neurobuntu_> maxb, thanks again for your help
<neurobuntu_> qiyong, is its a repo from a liveCD?
<qiyong> neurobuntu: yes, downloaded from the site
<qiyong> a full cd thould be
<StevenK> Oh, a live CDs repo doesn't contain a lot
<StevenK> It's pointless to use that as a base
<neurobuntu_> qiyong, if you are using a distribution before jaunty check out falcon
<neurobuntu_> if you want to build your own repository
<neurobuntu_> or launchpad
<qiyong> should I use apt-mirror to build my local repos?
<StevenK> apt-mirror works, I use it for my local mirror
<qiyong> http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ubuntu-9.04-server-i386.iso.torrent
<qiyong> is this the said live CD? neurobuntu
<StevenK> No, that's a torrent for a sserver install ISO
<StevenK> s/ss/s/
<qiyong> i mean the iso downloaded by that torrent
<qiyong> is it the live CD?
<qiyong> i thought it should be a full CD
<qiyong> StevenK: ^
 * DBO pokes directhex 
<StevenK> What do you mean by "full CD" ?
<qiyong> contains all the pkg from jaunty
<StevenK> No such CD or DVD exists
<StevenK> Since Jaunty is 18GB for i386
<qiyong> or binary main at least
<qiyong> oh
<StevenK> Binary main is still too large for a DVD
<qiyong> how much is a binary main?
<StevenK> For Jaunty?
<qiyong> yeah
<StevenK> steven@infected:/srv/mirror/ubuntu/dists/jaunty/main/binary-i386$ echo $(($(grep '^Size' Packages | cut -d\  -f2 | numsum) / (1024 * 1024)))
<StevenK> 5787
<StevenK> A shade under 6GB, if I can do math
<qiyong> a DVD can be 6G?
<neurobuntu_> qiyong, dual layer can
<StevenK> We don't currently ship any dual layer DVDs on cdimage.ubuntu.com
<qiyong> is there that a full DVD?
<qiyong> full DVD iso?
<qiyong> oh
<StevenK> And full Jaunty i386 is 24GB
<jmarsden> qiyong: Just use apt-mirror to grab what you need, instead of starting with an ISO.
<qiyong> i have this folders:
<StevenK> Yes
<qiyong> [DIR]	dists/	23-Apr-2009 15:16 	 - 	
<qiyong> [DIR]	indices/	09-Jun-2009 00:57 	- 	
<qiyong> [ ]	ls-lR.gz	09-Jun-2009 00:56 	7.1M	
<qiyong> [DIR]	pool/	14-Jan-2008 22:05 	- 	
<qiyong> [DIR]	project/	13-Feb-2008 14:39 	- 	
<qiyong> to be a mirror or repos, which folders are must?
<qiyong> pool?
<StevenK> pool and dists
<StevenK> But seriously, use apt-mirror
<jmarsden> qiyong: See http://popey.com/Creating_an_Ubuntu_repository_mirror_with_apt-mirror for one tutorial on doing this.
<qiyong> $ apt-mirror
<qiyong> Downloading 84 index files using 20 threads...
<qiyong> apt-mirror: can't write to intermediate file (index-urls.0) at /usr/bin/apt-mirror line 174.
<qiyong> ignore above
<qiyong> /var/spool/apt-mirror/mirror
<qiyong> /var/spool/apt-mirror/skel
<qiyong> /var/spool/apt-mirror/var
<qiyong> what these three dirs for indivadually?
<qiyong> can I only mirror one release only? mirror only jaunty for instance
<Hobbsee> i'm sure you an
<Hobbsee> *can
<qiyong> what about the three folders?
<Hobbsee> i don't know.  Does the manual or hte howto tell you?
<qiyong> Hobbsee: check later
<Hobbsee> ?
<qiyong> how do I find who is using a mounted fs? lsof or fuser which what options?
<ajmitch>  fuser -m
 * Hobbsee advises #ubuntu for non-packaging questions
<qiyong> ajmitch:
<qiyong> root@leo:~# fuser -m /dev/sdb
<qiyong> root@leo:~# umount /srv/sdb
<qiyong> umount: /srv/sdb: device is busy.
<Hobbsee> try calling that on a partition, not on an entire drive.
<binarymutant> if anyone has some time to revu http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple , I would be greatly appreciative :)
<qiyong> Hobbsee: i have /dev/sdb mounted on /srv/sdb
<h6w> qiyong: Yes, and that works for you?  If so, you must have format the disk as a partition.  This tends only to happen on SSDs.
<h6w> Normally, you'd have a partition number at the end.  e.g. /dev/sdb2
<qiyong> umount: /srv/sdb: device is busy.
<qiyong> h6w: ^ how do I find who is using a mounted fs? lsof or fuser which what options?
<qiyong> i need to umount it
<h6w> Are you in that dir?
<qiyong> no
<h6w> fuser -c -u /srv/sdb
<qiyong> nothing
<h6w> Then nothing is using it.
<qiyong> i want to find what process using sdb
<h6w> Try it with sudo
<qiyong> still umount fails
<qiyong> i'm root
<h6w> Well then it must not be umounting for some other reason.
<h6w> What type of fs is on it?
<qiyong> ext3
<h6w> You could use umount -l or umount -f, but you need to be sure everything's written to it.
<qiyong> h6w: ok, -l get it umounted
<h6w> cool.  man is your friend.
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> 'ey Daniel.
<dholbach> hiya iulian
<dholbach> how's life?
<iulian> dholbach: Everything is good :)
<iulian> dholbach: How about yours?
<dholbach> very good - just going through the sponsoring queue right now
<dholbach> lots of good stuff in there
<iulian> Indeed, I was taking a peek at it yesterday.  I'll dive in more today.
 * dholbach hugs iulian
<dholbach> you ROCK
 * iulian has to study for his driver's license exam :(
 * iulian hugs dholbach back.
<dholbach> bdrung_: I need to install 246724967246MB of build depends just to build the matplotlib source package! :-)
<Hobbsee> ah, but is one of them yada?
<dholbach> no, luckily not
<iulian> dholbach: I can build it for you.
 * iulian has a fast net connection.
<dholbach> iulian: no worries - I have them installed now
<iulian> OK, great.
<jmarsden> 246724967246 MB at 1Gbit/second would take around 62 years... iulian must have a *very fast* net connection :) :)
<dholbach> jmarsden: we're not dealing with trifles here, we're changing the world! :-)
<jmarsden> As long as it doesn't delay the release or Karmic by 62 years, that's fine with me :)
<iulian> Heh
<geser> jmarsden: if dholbach has enough free space to store the data I guess he has also a fast enough connection to receive it
<jmarsden> geser: Impressive :)
<dholbach> mterry: not sure if you heard of "submittodebian" before, it makes use of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Usertagging (really good stuff)
<didrocks> morning o/
<\sh> moins
<\sh> bah...the trolling didn't stop...
<hyperair> which trolling?
<Hobbsee> \sh: server side filtering for the win.
<Hobbsee> hyperair: the mess on u-d-d list
<hyperair> oh the mono one?
 * hyperair facepalms
<\sh> Hobbsee: thinking about that, unsubscribe u-d-d looks like a better plan
<hyperair> i wonder how old the troll is..
<Hobbsee> \sh: indeed.
<hyperair> sounds like a kid making noise.
<Hobbsee> \sh: depends if there's enough useful stuff on it
<\sh> Hobbsee: tbh, I would like to see technical discussions more on u-d then discussing things with mostly-nonrelated-nontechnical-userbase could be that I'm too arrogant
<Hobbsee> \sh: if i'm figuring out what you mean right (your english grammar is stuffed there, so i'm guessing after the third read), that's what's supposed to happen
<Hobbsee> however, one of those "discussions" appears to be mono
<\sh> Hobbsee: the discussion is totally non-technical and not relevant. It's more godwins law with s/nazi/ms+boycottnovell/...actually it's only wasting bandwidth and mail-storage
<Hobbsee> \sh: oh, i know.  If it was kubuntu-users, i'd moderate anyone who posted on the topic, send a warning mail that the discussion was to stop right here, right now, warn that i'd moderate the *entire* list if it didn't, and regularly go through the moderation queue.
<Hobbsee> unfortunately, it's not a list I have access over
<Hobbsee> oh, and there would be more in the mail than that (like, about the CoC), but that would be the crux of it.
<\sh> moins siretart`
<Hobbsee> gah, the other thread is no better either.
<siretart`> hey folks! hi \sh!
 * hyperair is thankful that he is not subscribed to u-d-d =\
<\sh> siretart`: I fixed the menu.lst problem like "write my own update-grub in scripts/GRUB/10-setup" ;)
<\sh> siretart`: and fai-divert update-grub
<siretart`> \sh: yes, but this breaks the purpose of ucf as well
<\sh> siretart`: problem I saw was that the menu.lst inside /var/run/grub/ wasn't correctly set...the name was menu.lst.ucf-dist and I wonder where that came from
<siretart`> \sh: BTW, are you targeting karmic or jaunty currently?
<\sh> siretart`: karmic
<\sh> aeh sorry jaunty
<siretart`> aha
<\sh> karmic just got grub2 ,-)
<siretart`> exactly
 * \sh is still tired...1:30 UTC+2 I was at home...even if I wanted to go home early
 * siretart` is going to have a long day today as well :-(
<\sh> siretart`: too much work here right now...we got 2x hp bl7000c full featured enclosures with complete 32x bl465c and 2x Cisco 6509 Carrier Grade 21U switches + 2x Cisco ASR routers...and we need to install them next week in our new DC...so the FAI stuff is for the blades ;)
<siretart`> I see
<siretart`> I'm looking forward to see a working FAI in ubuntu again :-)
<\sh> it's really no fun...even if I would love to play with the blades..but there is always no time :)
<\sh> siretart`: yes...debian lenny + this firmware not included crap is giving me headaches...when you install dl365 e.g. and you don't have a working NIC because broadcoms firmware is not included by default..no fun
<siretart`> ah, right, but isn't the firmware packaged in non-free?
<\sh> siretart`: but it looks like that SID kernel and jaunty kernel have problems mounting aufs over nfs, people on #fai@oftc reported that...I need to look at this later on
<siretart`> or is that the crappy sort of firmware?
<\sh> siretart`: yeah...but not installed by default because of non-free so you when you are not using d-i you need to take care to install it manually
<\sh> oh my english this morning is kauderwelsch
 * \sh needs another tea 
 * xnox set up a filter to delete threads with "mono" in it from my mailbox
<siretart`> but with fai that should be rather easy to implement, or do I miss something important here?
<siretart`> xnox: try scoring
<\sh> siretart`: nope...you need to install it into the nfsroot
<siretart`> the most difficult thing seems to remember to do that :-)
 * xnox uses gmail......
<\sh> siretart`: but using ubuntu all the time, you don't expect such "feature" from debian...and hp supports debian officially so I thought it should run out of the box
<siretart`> perhaps a switch --with-nonfree-firmware can be added to make-fai-nfsroot or something
<\sh> siretart`: sounds like a nice wishlist bug ;)
<\sh> siretart`: jaunty is installed via fai ;) well..without update-grub and ucf but installed ;)
<siretart`> \sh: so aufs finally works again on nfs in jaunty?
<siretart`> s/again//
<directhex> frankly i never once managed to get aufs to do anything. the manual is obtuse at best
<\sh> siretart`: no it's debian lenny with fai from uni-koeln.de installing jaunty
<\sh> siretart`: that's the "fast and furious installation plan"...now I can work on "fai on jaunty"
<siretart`> oh, I see :-(
<siretart`> ah, I see
<geser> jpds: the buildd script in u-d-t trunk has now full support of LP API for give-backs and rescoring
<jpds> geser: Awesome! :D
<bdrung_> dholbach: Then you need only 172473253 1,5 TB hard drives to store the data. :D
<dholbach> bdrung_: no big deal... I sponsored it - good work!
<bdrung_> dholbach: thanks
<jpds> geser: I guess this means we can finally remove lp_cookie from the source.
<siretart`> bdrung_: hey there. would you mind updating the mplayer backport in the motumedia PPA?
<geser> jpds: if it isn't used anywhere anymore sure (didn't check)
<siretart`> bdrung_: I've uploaded an upgrade path fix
<bdrung_> siretart: i will do it this afternoon
<geser> jpds: from a look at some of those lp_functions methods, I guess they can use some caching to not refetch the same objects through the LP API everytime just to access an attribute (but I didn't have a close look yet)
<jpds> geser: I'll take a look.
<siretart`> bdrung_: thanks
<bdrung_> siretart: there is no comment in the changelog about a path fix
<geser> jpds: requestsync:import ubuntutools.lp.cookie as lp_cookie
<siretart`> bdrung_:  upgrade path, not file path
<jpds> geser: launchpad_cookie isn't used anywhere tho...
<bdrung_> siretart: can you update the debian maintainer field the next time? dpkg-source complains: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<siretart`> bdrung_: the ubuntu package *is* actively maintained in the pkg-multimedia git repository in the ubuntu branch
<siretart`> that's why I've kept the maintainer field, because it is acurate
<dholbach> siretart`: it will break dpkg-buildpackage for people with a ubuntu.com mail address IIRC
<siretart`> dholbach: are you really sure with that? IIRC there are also some packages with a dedicated maintainer field in the archive, and I don't remember some mail that they were prohibited
<Hobbsee> i only ever remember it throwing a warning before
<Hobbsee> it's become mandatory now?
<alkisg> Hi, (newbie question) if I use dch -i on a "native debian" package of mine, and the previous changelog entry is "ltsp-server-pnp (0.1.4) jaunty; urgency=low", I get a proposed new version of "0.1.4ubuntu1". How can I make dch use "0.1.5" as the new version?
<dholbach> siretart`: not prohibited, but our tools make it hard to work around DebianMaintainerField
<Hobbsee> alkisg: dch -Ui
<alkisg> Hobbsee: thank you very much
<Hobbsee> alkisg: you're welcome.  And i'm not sure why that's missing from the manpage
<dholbach> dpkg-source: Fehler: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<dholbach> dpkg-buildpackage: Fehlschlag: dpkg-source -b hello-2.2 gab Fehler-Exitstatus 255
<dholbach> debuild: fatal error at line 1334:
<siretart`> dholbach: TBH, that sounds like broken tools
<dholbach> Hobbsee, siretart`: ^
<Hobbsee> well, there you go.  And I agree with siretart`.
<siretart`> dholbach: I don't see that. and I always build ubuntu ffmpeg package on my ubuntu laptop
<dholbach> siretart`: what is your DEBEMAIL?
<siretart`> siretart@tauware.de
<dholbach> Hobbsee: that doesn't solve the problem that bdrung_ has
<dholbach> siretart`: there you go :)
<siretart`> ah, you mean it just works because of that
<dholbach> right
<bdrung_> siretart: done
<\sh> siretart`: I think I solved the grub problem
<siretart`> bdrung_: thanks!
<siretart`> \sh: w00t! :-) - how?
<\sh> siretart`: when you want to have update-grub working and want to use the ucf technique,...just don't deliver a menu.lst ... do your grub-install in scripts/GRUB/10-setup and $ROOTCMD /usr/sbin/update-grub -y et voila
<siretart`> yes, that sounds reasonable, if it works
<siretart`> you rock! :-)
<siretart`> afk, lunch
<\sh> siretart`: I can tell you it works right here right now
<geser> gaspa: when you get bored with checking ocaml give-backs, it looks like octave-* is ready to be checked for give-backs :)
<gaspa> geser: lol
<up_the_irons> I rebuilt a package on an intrepid box, and b/c that box had python 2.5 (standard), it put as a dependency "python (<< 2.6), python (>= 2.5)" (this is the expansion of ' ${python:Depends}' I believe).  Now this package won't install on a jaunty box b/c jaunty has Python 2.6 (standard).  Any suggestions? (should I manually put more liberal Depends in debian/control for python?)
<geser> up_the_irons: rebuild it on jaunty
<gaspa> geser: right now i'm after matita ftbfs, then i think i'd move to something else ;)
<siretart`> NCommander: are you still working on ubuntu on arm these days?
<siretart`> NCommander: if yes, perhaps you could triage bug #384784?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384784 in mplayer "FTBFS arm" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384784
<up_the_irons> geser: was trying to avoid that, it has a lot of build dependencies; but i guess I could as a last resort.
<geser> up_the_irons: if the package has a compiled python extension you need to rebuild it with python2.6 if you want to use it with python2.6
<up_the_irons> geser: oh ok
<up_the_irons> tnx
<alkisg> What tools are usually used for word-wrapping e.g. the README file in packages?
<up_the_irons> personally, i just use vim with ":set tw=72" ;)
<binarymutant> if anyone has time to review and possibly advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple , I will be forever grateful :)
<alkisg> up_the_irons: hmm that works when writing a new paragraph, but not when editing an existing paragraph (or, *I* can't get it to work...)
<up_the_irons> alkisg: gq{
<up_the_irons> :)
<up_the_irons> sometimes I have to hit 'J' a lot to bring everything up to the same line, then 'gq{' reformats the whole thing.  I'm sure there's probably a keystroke that does it all at once, but i'm too lazy to figure it out
<alkisg> For now, I'm using Evolution => composing a new text mail => wordwraps, even supports bullets! But it seems kinda silly to keep the original README in the "Draft" email :D
<alkisg> up_the_irons: ah, that sounds good, let me try...
<up_the_irons> alkisg: my vi also supports bullets... ;)
 * alkisg is only basically familiar with vi, must read more... :)
<alkisg> Thanks, up_the_irons
<up_the_irons> alkisg: np
<up_the_irons> the more you learn vim, the more everything else just doesn't cut it.  unless u like emacs.  both are good
<mterry> dholbach: Ah, thanks for the pointer about submittodebian.  I've just been using reportbug --bts=debian
<dholbach> it's really good stuff
<qiyong> is this a jaunty bug?
<qiyong> libapache2-mod-php5 depends upon apache prefork only
<soren> qiyong: What would the bug be?
<qiyong> libapache2-mod-php5 depends on prefork only, it doesn't work with worker
<soren> php isn't thread-safe, so it's stuck with the prefork MPM.
<soren> that's right.
<soren> It doesn't work with worker.
<qiyong> if i have to use worker
<qiyong> what php should I choose?
<soren> Then you can't use mod_php5.
<soren> I use php5 through fastcgi instead.
<soren> Works great.
<soren> ..with the worker MPM.
<qiyong> libapache2-mod-php5 depends on prefork
<soren> ...
<soren> Yes.
<soren> Because it does. not. work. with. the. worker. mpm.
<qiyong> so worker is threaded?
<soren> Yes.
<qiyong> will mod php be threaded one day?
<qiyong> is threaded the future?
<soren> PHP isself is thread safe, AFAIK.
<soren> The problem is the libraries on which it depends.
<soren> ...which aren't all thread safe.
<soren> So until they're all fixed, you're stuck with the preform mpm (if you *insist* on using mod_php5).
<qiyong> threaded vs prefork, which is the future?
<soren> Threaded.
<qiyong> isn't mod_php5 the fastest php?
<soren> With a properly confiured fastcgi setup, you can get comparable speeds.
 * soren realises he's in #ubuntu-motu
<soren> This is totally #ubuntu-server stuff.
<qiyong> is mod_php4 wokring with worker?
<soren> No.
<soren> And php4 is dead.
<StevenK> Which depends on the same libraries that php5 does, which still aren't any more thread safe then when php5 uses them.
<qiyong> then libapache2-mod-passenger is buggy
<qiyong> it only depends on mpm-worker
<qiyong> mods work with mpm-worker should be able to work with prefork too
<soren> *shrug*
<StevenK> I think passenger wants threads, but I'm not sure
<up_the_irons> qiyong: i'm running mpm-worker, and installed passenger manually from the gem
<soren> I don't know mod_passenger.. And from the description, I'm going to guess I don't care about it either :)
<up_the_irons> qiyong: wait, sorry.  i'm running prefork
<StevenK> I'm happily using it, but I think PHP needs to die
<up_the_irons> passenger is quite nice
<qiyong> up_the_irons: is their other rails mod?
<qiyong> s/their/there/
<up_the_irons> qiyong: not as an apache module; passenger is pretty much the one to use
<qiyong> passenger is an apache module, no?
<up_the_irons> but there's always the {nginx/lighttpd} -> mongrel approach
<up_the_irons> qiyong: yup, apache mod
<qiyong> which pkg provides php5 fast cgi?
<qiyong> soren: ^
<soren> php5-cgi
<qiyong> with fast cgi, i have to put all my php into cgi-bin?
<qiyong> soren: ^
<soren> No, you don't have to change anything, except for a bit of Apache configuration.
<soren> Still... This is #ubuntu-server stuff.
<soren> Please go there.
<qiyong> how do i setup php-cgi?
<Pici> qiyong: This isn't a support channel. #ubuntu-server would be the best place to ask.
<Pici> or #ubuntu
<Hobbsee> and for anything that isn't server related, #ubuntu is the place to ask.  Please stop asking non-packaging questions here.
<\sh> SirDerigo: http://faiwiki.informatik.uni-koeln.de/index.php/FAIUbuntuGrubProblems <- menu.lst + ucf fix ;)
<qiyong> how do i install a pkg without installing its depends?
<\sh> SirDerigo: wasn't for you...
<\sh> siretart: http://faiwiki.informatik.uni-koeln.de/index.php/FAIUbuntuGrubProblems <- menu.lst + ucf fix
<SirDerigo> \sh: dont worry
<maco> qiyong, um, but idea, but read man dpkg's section on forcing stuff
<maco> s/but/bad/
<Pici> qiyong: Is there a reason you keep asking support questions in here? You've been asked a few times to take them elsewhere...
<qiyong> Pici: sorry, some mistakes
<bddebian> Heya gang
<siretart`> heyha bddebian!
<bddebian> Hi siretart`
<lampard> I am packaging a software. Upstream releases a tarball named "appname 1.3.tar.gz" (yes, with a white space). Should I rename it to eliminate the white space or the version number? Or maybe should I just add the orig.tar.gz part?
<slytherin> lampard: you must not eliminate number. And yes you should rename the tar to remove white space. the .orig.tar.gz should have name in particular format
<siretart`> lampard: name it 'appname_1.3.orig.tar.gz'
<lampard> Ok, and then I just unpack it and dh_make as usual, right? Great, thank you!
<lampard> oh, after extracting the tarball it creates the directory "name 1.3". Should I modify it as well before proceeding?
<lampard> name-1.3, I suppose
<pochu> lampard: don't modify the tarball, dpkg will DTRT
<pochu> so just untar it now, and rename it to run dh_make
<pochu> but don't repack it
<lampard> pochu: Yeah, that's what I intended. Thanks!
<slytherin> does anyone know what this error is - dpkg-trigger: dpkg-trigger must be called from a maint
<slytherin> dpkg-trigger: dpkg-trigger must be called from a maintainer script (or with a --by-package option)
<binarymutant> if someone could review and possibly advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple , I will be forever grateful :)
 * \sh is gone home...
<loic-m> when a program installs the upstream manpage itself (in the Makefile), is it ok to leave it like that and omit dh_installman in d/rules?
<soren> loic-m: Sure.
<loic-m> soren: thanks
<Riddell> pkern: bug 306955 waiting for your response
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 306955 in net6 "sobby does not appear to use socket reuse flags" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/306955
<pkern> Riddell: Right.  I'm just not sure how to deal with it.  In my tests killall -9 sobby did release the sockets but for the canonical sysadmins it clearly didn't.  So providing a test case with a hanging socket will be hard.
<loic-m> When a game installs into /usr/bin but I want it to install in /usr/games, should i patch upstream makefile or is there a way to do it in debian/rules?
<Riddell> loic-m: you can put something like this in rules mv debian/<package>/usr/bin/mygame debian/<package>/usr/games/mygame  or set a .install file to move  it, or edit the build system
<loic-m> Riddell, thanks.
<Riddell> cody-somerville, jdong: bug 378507 needing motu-sru love
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 378507 in empathy "Please allow SRU for empathy 2.26.2" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/378507
<AnAnt> Hello, who can I ask about grub2 ?
<geser> try #ubuntu-devel
<AnAnt> ok, thanks
<bin1010> howdy, who would I ask about changing dependencies of an existing .deb package?
<bin1010> well actually just adding some dependencies
<geser> this involves at least a rebuild of the package
<bin1010> So I will have to unpackage the .deb to a directory, then repack with checkinstall with new dependencies?
<neurobuntu> bin1010, you don't have to unpack the directory, do an apt-get source <package> update the dependencies and rebuild
<geser> no, you need to modify the source package it you want to do it properly
<bin1010> k.  I got all the dependencies when did a apt-cache search <missing library reported by make> | grep dev for each of the missing pieces.  Then I made the project and used checkinstall to make the .deb.  Then I installed it and apt-get autoremove removed all the dependencies.  LOL.  So I have to figure out a way to add the dependencies to the .deb, right?  Or is there a better way to do this?  I only update these packages about every mon
<bin1010> its been kind of fun to learn, but I've kind of hit the top of what I can find online for help...sorry
<bin1010> all of these packages are from SVN repos
<bin1010> here is the script that I've made over the last 6 months, adding and trying new things to fix this little problem.  It sure is a pain to learn it every month or so :).  http://pastebin.com/f2020d4f2
<ivoks> RoAkSoAx: hi
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, heya!! how's it going?
<ivoks> RoAkSoAx: sorry for not replying
<ivoks> RoAkSoAx: i had to work on stuff that pay by bills :)
<ivoks> my
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, haha I understand.. I've been busy too :)
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, I've uploaded heartbeat 2.99.2 to my ppa: https://launchpad.net/~andreserl/+archive/ppa to do some testing
<ivoks> great
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, sorry I'm off to lunch.. just drop me an email or we'll talk tomorrow. see ya later
<dupondje> If a merge gets approved (Fix Released) what else needs to be done to get it into the repo's ?
<directhex> fix released means it has been merged
<dupondje> but its still not in repo's ?
<directhex> bug# ?
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/383271
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383271 in audacious "Please merge audacious 2.0.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<directhex> NEW
<directhex> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+queue
<iulian> mok0: Is it OK with you if I upload the diff from bug #383214?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383214 in thuban "Please merge thuban 1.2.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383214
<dupondje> oh directhex, and when does it reach the repo's then :)
<directhex> dupondje, when someone clears it from NEW
<mok0> iulian: sure, go ahead
<iulian> Thanks.
<bin1010> any ideas?
<fabrice_sp> bin1010, debian/ontrol file in the source package is what you are looking for
<fabrice_sp> debian/control
<fabrice_sp> this is where you specify the dependencies of a package
<fabrice_sp> bin1010, you can have a look at http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html
<porthose> bin1010: you should also use packaging tools such as dpkg or debuild, pdebuild etc to build you package and not checkinstall
<directhex> checkinstall is a hack, and unsupportable
<fabrice_sp> checkinstall ?! Vade retro!
<porthose> bin1010: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete there is a lot of good information in it ;-)
<bin1010> thanks guys.  I will check it out
<fabrice_sp> bin1010, for what I've seen, your're building svn version of mplayer, ffmpeg and smplayer, right?
<bin1010> yep
<bin1010> but the dependencies aren't sticking for runtime on mplayer and smplayer, I think...so apt-get autoremove messes things up
<fabrice_sp> as this are existing package in Ubuntu, I would say you could use the existing packaging as an envelop, and get the dependencies automatically generated using pbuilder, for example
<bin1010> i am making .debs because I have 5 machines at the house that need this...so build once
<fabrice_sp> the page that porthose gave you about packaging would explain all that things
<fabrice_sp> and automatically gives you the dependencies :-)
<fabrice_sp> generates, I mean
<bin1010> cool  thanks.  Lot to learn :)
<binarymutant> if someone has the time, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple , needs advocation :)
<gaspa> geser: should octave-* be built against 3.0 or 3.2 ?
<gaspa> (i mean: octave3.0 or octave3.2)
<ajmitch> morning
<mok0> Anyone here that knows something about javascript and perhaps greasemonkey?
<soren> mok0: What do you want to know?
<mok0> soren, berlingske.dk is detecting my adblocker, I'd like to understand how that works
<mok0> soren, and possibly defeat it
<soren> mok0: I'm working on that *exact* problem *right* now :)
<mok0> soren, heh!
<soren> mok0: I know that you can change adblock settings to work around it (tell it to not collapse the blocked elements, and you'll be fine)...
<soren> mok0: I also know how to change adblock to fix it...
<soren> mok0: ..but I've gotten stubborn and want to use greasemonkey to fix it, but it's proving quite difficult.
<mok0> soren, that worked earlier today but no more
<mok0> soren: I see
<soren> mok0: Oh, they changed it? /me goes to look what they changed.
<mok0> soren, if you could strip off the script near the end of the page
<mok0> soren, or mangle the diversion statement
<soren> mok0: I have something more elegant in mind :)
<mok0> soren: cool
<soren> mok0: I'm just having difficulties applying it, becauase greasemonkey scripts get applied *after* the page loads, which is too late.
<mok0> soren: it's the same on bt.dk and stiften,dk
<mok0> ah
<soren> I have an idea, though.
 * soren goes to try it.
<mok0> soren: what is that mserving.com?
<soren> mok0: I think it's something used by some adblockers.
<soren> mok0: I don't know, though. I'm just guessing based on the code.
<mok0> soren, so that snippet looks for a script from mserving and if it's not found it diverts you
<mok0> perhaps it's the script.style.display == none that hits us
<soren> mok0: It is.
<soren> mok0: ..getting closer.
<mok0> soren: go go go
<soren> mok0: Hm... I might not even need greasemonkey to do this.
<soren> mok0: I have it working now. I just want to adjust it a little bit.
<ajmitch> sounds like some serious bugfixing going on :)
<mok0> ajmitch: some news sites here started to detect that you are using an adblocker and denying you access
<ajmitch> that's sort of nasty
<mok0> soren: like you said, if GM does it's stuff after the page has loaded, it wont work
<mok0> It think
<mok0> :-)
<soren> mok0: Win!
<mok0> soren, yay!
<mok0> soren, try stiften.dk and bt.dk too
<soren> mok0: http://pastebin.com/f1f3c4804
<soren> mok0: Save it locally and open it in firefox. It should lead you to a bt.dk that works.
<mok0> soren, it works
<soren> mok0: Does it?
<mok0> soren: but it also works to uncheck "Collapse blocked elements" in the adblocker
<soren> mok0: Oh. I though you said it didn't anymore?
<mok0> soren: except for berlingske.dk,
<soren> Ah.
<mok0> soren: it worked everywhere earlier, but the script is the same (??????
<soren> mok0: Actually, it doesn't work for me now. It just takes a /lot/ longer before the reject page shows up.
<soren> I have no idea why.
<mok0> soren, weird
<mok0> soren: damn javascript
<mok0> soren: I think it takes long because that script is at the bottom of the page
 * soren goes back to his iframe idea.
<binarymutant> if someone has the time, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple , needs advocation :)
<mok0> soren, can you reproduce my "Collapse blocked elements" results?
<mok0> soren, alte)natively, create a wget command that clicks 100 million  times on the eurocard banner :-)
<soren> mok0: I haven't tried the collapse thing. I don't actually want to read the news on the site, I just want to work around their check :)
<mok0> soren, itÂ¨s just weird that it only works on two out of three sites
<mok0> soren: I'm hampered by the fact that I don't know how the adblocker works in detail
<soren> mok0: Screw it. I'll look at it tomorrow or something. I have stuff I need to do :)
<mok0> soren: sure
<soren> mok0: /my/ main problem is that I can't seem to work out which prototype the document in an iframe is instantiated from.
<soren> mok0: If I could work that out (and assuming Firefox' DOM doesn't special case builtins), it'd be easy enough.
<mok0> soren: y
<mok0> soren: you lost me
<mok0> :)
<soren> Erm... Well, Javascript uses prototype based OO rather than class based.
<mok0> soren: I see
<soren> ..so I can't necessarily just fiddle with the HTMLDocument prototype and expect it to work.
<soren> ..because there might be another HTMLDocument prototype in a different scope that is being used to instantiate the document in the iframe.
<mok0> soren: ah, ok
<soren> and until I work that out, I'm a bit lost.
<mok0> soren: it must be documented somewhere
<soren> Maybe.
<bdrung_> how to handle ftbfs caused by unmet dependencies?
<directhex> meet the dependencies
<bdrung_> directhex: it only failes on powerpc and armel.
<bdrung_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/matplotlib/0.98.5.3-1ubuntu1
<Laney> meet the dependencie on ppc and armel
<Laney> s
<directhex> looks like tex is broken on ppc
<Laney> yep
<Laney> there's a bug about this
<Laney> (the trigger thing?)
<Laney> (didn't look)
<directhex> Laney, yeah
<directhex> and looks like kdebindings on arm
<bdrung_> what to do when the dependencies are met?
<bdrung_> do i have to upload a new version?
<directhex> it can be re-triggered by sexy people
 * ogra wonders about sexy people with keybindingd on their arms
<ogra> *keybindings
<bdrung_> but how do i know that the problems are fixed? i do not have a ppc or armel machine.
<directhex> bdrung_, when in doubt, tickle TheMuso or NCommander?
<ogra> you take a look at the build log
<directhex> or that, yeah
 * NCommander beats directhex 
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/builders/ might also be intresting :)
<directhex> despite having met NCommander in person, i still mentally add the electric six song "dance commander" as a soundtrack whenever he speaks on irc
<ogra> NCommander, thunderbird-3.0 3.0~b3~hg20090608r2804+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1 ? whats umd1 ?
<NCommander> ogra, copied from the thunderbird-3.0 PPA
<ogra> i was just wondering about the abbreviation
<NCommander> ogra, as part of the debugging of thunderbird, we want to know if the latest versions are still affected
<NCommander> ogra, oh, no idea :-)
<NCommander> directhex, you best be nice, i still haven't signed your GPG key
<NCommander> .... *thinks you were at the key signing party*
<NCommander> And if not, then forget what I just said
<directhex> NCommander, who said i wasn't being nice? :o
<ogra> directhex, be careful or he'll revive the mono discussion on u-d-d ;)
<directhex> ogra, i think maco is the last one to poke that hornets' nest
<NCommander> you mean that mono s-*tackled*
<directhex> "sleetstorm"
<NCommander> Personally, my biggest issue with mono is its freaking bloated and the codebase is very very scary
<maxb> ogra: ubuntu-mozilla-daily, I'd guess
<ogra> ah
<directhex> NCommander, at least it's not openjdk!
<NCommander> directhex, openjdk is at least patent free
<NCommander> ^- *rephrase*
<NCommander> Less likely to be hit with a patent lawsuite once it becomes competetive
<directhex> NCommander, really? and sun's cross-patent deal with MS? and their nontransferrable settlement with kodak over infringement?
<NCommander> directhex, I said less likely
 * directhex waves his degree in internet lawyering
<directhex> only $100 via your local spam folder!
 * JontheEchidna can haz degree in internet lolyering?
<directhex> JontheEchidna, there's a special offer - they'll throw in a slap-chop for only $5 more
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-10
<binarymutant> if someone has the time, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple , needs advocation. I'm trying to beat the Freeze :)
<h6w> The Debian new maintainers guide appears to assume that we're using Make for the compile process.  Are there any docs for other compiling script languages (e.g. ant)?
<slayton> maxb thanks again for your help yesterday... in the end I figured that because i only needed the libhdf5-serial and none of the other packages built by default anyway I could just package up hdf5-serial-1.8.3 using cdbs and forgetting about what was done for 1.6.6
 * ScottK relaxes when he notices the  mono discussion ended several hours ago.
<ajmitch> ScottK: I only wish that were true
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'm limiting my relaxation of this channel.
 * ScottK finished dredging through email about an hour ago and currently isn't looking.
<ajmitch> unsubscribe looks awfully tempting for u-d-d
<ScottK> You wouldn't be the first.
<ajmitch> I know, that's the worrying part
<TheMuso> Unsubscribing from u-d-d is something I'm considering as well.
<TheMuso> In fact, I feel its become more a windgepool than anything constructive. However, it could only be a handfull of people who do windge.
<persia> The main issue with unsubscribing is that there ought be some useful forum for some of the discussions, just not others.
<TheMuso> persia: Yes, thats exactly the dilemma.
<persia> Personally, I blame the demise of usenet.  mailreaders all suck for this sort of fora.
<persia> (and no, it's not worth setting up a mail2news gateway: the issue is as much that *everyone else* uses mailreaders as that I do)
<ScottK> Personally, I'm treating it as a personal growth opportunity.
<ScottK> Excercising the restraint to not reply is a useful exercise.
<ajmitch> I never find that a problem
<ScottK> Holding my tongue in the face of idiocy has never been one of my strengths.  Even in cases where intellectually it was clearly the better move.
<rawang> Hi, why I can manage to build my package by pbuilder, but failed at my PPA build?
<Hobbsee> because the stars didn't align.  YOu'll need to give us more information than that.
<Hobbsee> like, a pastebin of what the last ~20 lines of the ppa build log is
<Hobbsee> (or the build log itself)
<Hobbsee> one common reason would be because your build requires internet access during build
<rawang> Hobbsee, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/27717912/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.mono-uiautomationwinforms_1.0-1ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<rawang> Hobbsee, it fails at the it requires gtk-sharp2, and this is the one i haven't add it in Build-Depends tag.
<rawang> Hobbsee, but the problem is when i use pbuilder to build it, it succeed, it's so weird,
<rawang> Hobbsee, i think pbuilder should fail to build it, because I'm not fulfill the dependency :(
<Hobbsee> that's kinda weird
<Hobbsee> maybe add teh build dependancy anyway
<Hobbsee> (you've not used --save-after-login at all on the pbuilde, have you?)
<StevenK> rawang: Can you pastebin the pbuilder log?
<StevenK> rawang: Perhaps your pbuilder base tarball has mono in it ...
<rawang> sure, i will paste pbuilder log
<rawang> btw where is the pbuilder log? :)
<StevenK> You need to use 'tee' or pass a --logfile option, I think
 * StevenK uses sbuild, not pbuilder
<rawang> ok, thank you guys :)
<nellery> it's --logfile
<rawang> sure
<TheMuso> StevenK: I thought at one time you were going to stick to pbuilder...
<StevenK> I've been using sbuild for about 4 releases now
<TheMuso> ah ok
<StevenK> Hm. Maybe only three
<persia> StevenK, hardy, jaunty, intrepid, karmic: four
<StevenK> persia: And how are you keeping better track of my use of sbuild than I am?
<persia> StevenK, Because I spent a long time arguing with you about it, and remember the day I didn't have to do so anymore.  Instead, I had the evening free to cook.
<StevenK> Hmmm. I don't recall that argument.
<StevenK> Probably because I lost
<persia> Best thing not to remember :)
<bddebian> eh
<bddebian> Err heh
<StevenK> bddebian: When did you start hiding here again?
<persia> I don't remember bddebian ever leaving here, just not saying anything much for the past long time (since deciding to go fix stuff in Debian QA).
<StevenK> Ahhh
<ajmitch> he's always lurking in the shadows
<StevenK> Now that's a scary thought
<ajmitch> trying to convince us of the One True OS, Debian GNU/Hurd
<bddebian> Heh
<StevenK> Ha!
<bddebian> Exactly!
<persia> bddebian, Does Hurd work now?  Is there an Ubuntu port?
<ajmitch> bddebian: btw, I saw phil charles last night :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Really?
<bddebian> persia: It's always worked.. ;-)  No, no Ubuntu port :(
<ajmitch> bddebian: yeah, I showed up at a LUG meeting for a change
<ajmitch> where LUG meeting = sit in pub & drink beer
<bddebian> heh
<StevenK> Good. Ubuntu doesn't need a Hurd port
<StevenK> ajmitch: Sounds like SLUG to me
<ajmitch> it's a good thing
<ajmitch> especially when the pub in question has a lot of different beers on tap
<StevenK> Hmm.
<StevenK> Given a list of PIDs, tell me what the process name is
 * StevenK hacks a shell one liner
<bddebian> yuck yuck
 * ScottK thought that was going to be be, "Given a list of PIDs, tell me what the appropriate beer to go with them is?"
<StevenK> ScottK: A cold one
<ausimage> wgrant?
<ausimage> wgrant: ahh!
 * ausimage attempts to shift his launchpad conv to motu
<wgrant> ausimage: Perhaps somebody else here can help - I've really got to study.
<ausimage> k
 * RoAkSoAx is sick of studying
<ausimage> I am wondering if anyone can look over https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ausimage/soovee/trunk...
<ausimage> My packaging skills seem to just kill revu :/
<ausimage> It is a serial audio feed manager that is coded in python
 * ausimage not sure if he will get a response this way... but has little choice ATM
 * ausimage needs rest but is accepting PMs and email comments to help him further getting soovee into karmic
<persia> ausimage, How is it killing REVU?
<ausimage> persia: um... http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/soovee
<wgrant> ausimage: Use dch to edit your changelog in future.
<ausimage> k
<wgrant> It has lots of trailing whitespace and extra blank lines.
<ausimage> I can do that...
<wgrant> In ppa4's changelog, delete line 6, and trim the trailing whitespace from 5, 8, 15.
<wgrant> Then REVU might work.
<StevenK> Line 8 and 15 take into account that line 6 no longer exists? :-)
<persia> Anyway, quick review: 1) debian/changelog appears to be an upstream changelog, Conflicts: is useless in a source stanza, Pre-Depends is probably unnecessary, installing symlinks with setup.py is likely to cause errors.
<wgrant> StevenK: Eh, no.
<StevenK> ausimage: debian/changelog is required to be a certain format -- tools like REVU and dpkg-buildpackage depend on it
<StevenK> What does it Pre-Depend on?
<ausimage> I used depend before and it complained that the package was not installed
<wgrant> Also, as I mentioned in #launchpad, it shouldn't be native.
<ausimage> when I switched it pre-depend it did not complain
<wgrant> What complained?
<persia> ausimage, that's the wrong hammer for that screw.  What complained?
<ausimage> synaptic
<wgrant> At what point did it complain?
<ausimage> When I attempted to choose to install the soovee-all
<ausimage> I think that was the point... it said something to the fact that package a needs to be installed but is not...
<wgrant> Try moving the Pre-Depends packages into Depends instead. It should work just as well.
<ausimage> and the depends for it were in the package
<wgrant> If it doesn't work, Pre-Depends is certainly not the solution.
<persia> ausimage, There is no "souvell-all" package in your debian/control.  From where did you get that?
<ausimage> i meant soovee :/
<ausimage> soovee is like a meta-package that pulls in the rest....
<ausimage> but is not necessary perse...
<persia> That should probably only depend on souvee-gui and souvee-cli, with the rest pulled recursively.
<ausimage> as soovee-cli and soovee-gui can be installed seperately
<ausimage> I thought about that.... but was not sure
<persia> Also, ${python:Depends} is *useless* for a non-python package (like your metapackage).
<ausimage> yeah I see that...
<LordKow> what debian/rules target occurs before configure? i need to do some source work prior to patching and configuring
<StevenK> Using CDBS?
<LordKow> nope
<StevenK> Since the first target called by dpkg-buildpackage is 'build'
<LordKow> the problem is trying to get work done before patching. i can simply dh_override the configure part but that would be after patching
<ausimage> I just pushed your suggestions into my soovee package and up to revu I hope :S
<ausimage> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=5990
<ausimage> Yeah! danke merce gracias thanks :)
<persia> LordKow, So, debian/rules is a makefile.  The first target called is 'build'.  Construct your rules file such that you do what you need before you do the other stuff that you need.
<fabrice_sp__> ausimage, you should take care of the 2 errors that appear at the top of the revu page
<fabrice_sp__> (watch file and close bug report in your changelog)
<LordKow> ah okay
<ausimage> fabrice_sp: not sure i know of a bug for it... just a personal itch of mine... and I will add the upstream watch once I learn how to do it correctly
<persia> ausimage, Conflicts is still useless in the source stanza
<fabrice_sp> ausimage, create a packaging request bug, then
<ausimage> persia: how do you force removal of a prior package
<ausimage> fabrice_sp: that I will then
<ausimage> fabrice_sp: can the original source be a package or repository ?
<ausimage> though I still need the exact tag to put in :/
<iulian> If it's a new package, just file the bug against Ubuntu.  The tag should be 'needs-packaging'.
<ausimage> gah... it is EDT here :/
<ausimage> iulian: I can do that ;) but tomorrow
<persia> ausimage, The point is that a *source* package can't conflict with anything in any meaningful way.  If you need a binary package to conflict, you can do that, but you need a filename or port conflict.
<persia> ausimage, The general guideline is that one *doesn't* force removal of anything.
<ausimage> hmmm how does one deal with file shuffles 'tween packages?
<ausimage> so files are only were there are supposed to be in the current package?
<ausimage> the conflicts that is there is due to a package name change I did... so the old package is removed prior to installing the new
 * ausimage is only attempting to find the most obvious tool in sight to handle that situation...
<ausimage> :S
<StevenK> The problem is sometimes the most obvious tool is a fairly big hammer, which is the wrong thing to use
<wgrant> In this case, the appropriate screwdriver is probably not needed here.
<wgrant> Because the Conflicts field has been happily sitting in the wrong paragraph, doing nothing. So it probably wasn't needed in the first place.
<ausimage> I guess I can drop it from the next revision
<wgrant> Particularly since the package against which you Conflict doesn't seem to be in Ubuntu.
<ausimage> ah true there...
<ausimage> it was in my ppa though
<ausimage> but I will drop the conflicts when I next package
<\sh> moins
<didrocks> good morning
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hiya \sh
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> how are you guys doing?
<dholbach> so who feels like doing some sponsoring today? :)
<dholbach> hiya Bambi03 - the beer was excellent! thanks again!
<dholbach> hola DktrKranz!
<DktrKranz> good morning dholbach!
<Bambi03> Hi Daniel, glad you liked it :)
<\sh> working on FAI, back working on Leonov planning, going to have a heavy datacenter move from next week on...and thinking about chaging ubuntu-devel-discussion ML into a ubuntu-devel-discussion forum on ubuntuusers.org and wishing for having decent discussions about technical issues back on ubuntu-devel ML...
<\sh> so doing quite fine ;)
<\sh> oh wow..."update on ubuntuone-client...changes: Failed to detect distribution" looks like we need some fixes for update-manager and PPAs
<wgrant> \sh: update-manager's changelog support relies on changelogs.ubuntu.com, which doesn't do PPAs.
<\sh> wgrant: yes...but we could have some infrastructure to support changelogs from PPAs too
<gaspa> slytherin: hi, do you have a minute or two? :P
<slytherin> gaspa: sure
<gaspa> slytherin: about that: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2009-June/005811.html
<slytherin> gaspa: I was reading your mail. You seem to have telepathy powers. :-D
<gaspa> slytherin: yes, i'm training ;)
<gaspa> I think the problem is that one: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/w3c-dtd-xhtml/+bug/183164
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 183164 in w3c-dtd-xhtml "Wrong path for entity sets" [Undecided,Fix released]
<slytherin> gaspa: I was going to reply to that mail. Is that fine?
<gaspa> sure.
<gaspa> thanks.
<slytherin> gaspa: some work has come up. I am in office. I will surely reply to the mail today.
<gaspa> slytherin: np, ikiwiki has been a merge since long time, it could wait after all... :P
<slytherin> calc: Is there any plan to move lucene2 to main adn use it as build depends for openoffice.org?
<AnAnt> Hello, I need to discuss the dependencies of velocity, why does velocity depend on ant ?
<AnAnt> the dependancy of velocity on ant makes it also pull in the default-jdk package (since default-jdk is Recommended by ant)
<AnAnt> although velocity (as far as I know) is just a bunch of classes that can be used by other java software
<AnAnt> hmmm, nevermind, I'll take this to -java channel
<\sh> siretart`: ping
<siretart`> \sh: yes?
<\sh> siretart`: I just ran into a problem during ubuntu installation via fai...udev and a missing udevadm which makes mkinitramfs unusable...
<\sh> siretart`: regarding the installation log, udev diverts udevadm with udevadm.upgrade and removes it later ... but strange, after that udevadm doesn't exists anymore on the installed system
<siretart`> if you ask Keybuk, udev is required on every ubuntu system (probably not in chroots, though)
<\sh> siretart`: sure...without it, I can't reconfigure a kernel ;)
<\sh> siretart`: but I wonder why it's being deleted instead
<\sh> of being still there
<siretart`> hm. are both udev and mdadm referenced from your packages selection?
<\sh> siretart`: udev package is installed...everything is there but not /sbin/udevadm
<\sh> I wonder if it has something to do you did during fai in ubuntu in version 2.10.1ubuntu1:  make-fai-nfs-root: patch $NFSROOT/etc/init.d/udev to call start-stop-daemon.distrib instead of start-stop-daemon, because the latter
<siretart`> "because the later..." ?
<siretart`> (your line is cut)
<\sh>  is disabled in the nfsroot
<siretart`> ah right, thomas disables s-s-d, as he doesn't want any daemons started in the nfsroot
<siretart`> this on the other hand broke "something" in ubuntu, but I don't really remember what
<\sh> ok...that it has nothing to do with the installation actually
<siretart`> might be worth to try reverting this change to find out what it was
<\sh> because udevadm is missing from the /target/* tree
<siretart`> more or less it does.
<siretart`> is mdadm referenced from your packages selection?
<\sh> siretart`: mdadm yes.it's installed
<\sh> argl
<siretart`> so the package is installed, but the binary /target/sbin/mdadm is missing?
<siretart`> are you sure here?
<\sh> stop...
<\sh> not mdadm...udevadm ;)
<siretart`> aaaah
<siretart`> so we are not talking about mdadm here at all, right?
<\sh> siretart`: nope...it's more important udev we are talking about :)
<siretart`> okay, so the package udev and the binary /target/sbin/udevd are installed, but the /target/sbin/udevadm binary is missing?
<siretart`> is that your diagnosis?
<\sh> yepp
<siretart`> that's really strange
<siretart`> can you check if there is some diversion on that file in the chroot?
<\sh> and I think it has something to do with udev.preinst: disable_udevadm() function #Disable udevadm from being run during an upgrade
<\sh> yes..udev.preinst diverts /sbin/udevadm to /sbin/udevadm.upgrade and removes this divert again after upgrade
<siretart`> okay, so that part seems intended
<siretart`> when exactly is "after upgrade" supposed to be?
<\sh> but I don't see any "rm -f /sbin/udevadm"
<siretart`> I suppose dpkg-divert does this on its own
<\sh> siretart`: http://paste.ubuntu.com/192432/ <- this is the snippet of fai.log
<siretart`> okay, I see
<siretart`> err, look in udev.postinst. The function enable_udevadm() does exactly that: rm -f /sbin/udevadm and then dpkg-divert  --local --rename --divert /sbin/udevadm.upgrade --remove /sbin/udevadm
<\sh> hmmm.but that works during normall install
<siretart`> since udevadm is missing and the fai.log shows the output of dpkg-divert, we can suppose that for some reason, dpkg-divert fails in a very subtle way here
<siretart`> can you chroot into that chroot and list the local diversions?
<\sh> will do a bit later...meeting right nwo
<siretart`> and does /sbin/udevadm.upgrade still exist?
<siretart`> k
<AnAnt_> Hello, how is the archive reorganisation going to affect us (those who make packages for Ubuntu) ?
<\sh> siretart`: totally gon
<\sh> e
<\sh> siretart`: and dpkg-divert --list doesn't show anything about udevadm
<siretart`> so both /sbin/udevadm and /sbin/udevadm.upgrade are gone?
<slytherin> AnAnt_: Do you have specific questions?
<siretart`> sounds to me that you've either found a bug in dpkg-divert, or something else is stealing/removing /sbin/udevadm
<AnAnt_> slytherin: yes, does that mean that when I make a package, what archive should I put it in ?
<\sh> siretart`: yepp
<AnAnt_> slytherin: there's no universe I understand
<slytherin> AnAnt_: I don't think universe as a component is going away.
<AnAnt_> I see
<slytherin> AnAnt_: AnAnt___: Regarding your question about velocity, you should send mail to debian java mailing list.
<AnAnt___> slytherin: I got a lousy connection here !
<\sh> siretart`: I'll remove the dist-upgrade now...and try to interactive upgrade udev
<siretart`> ok
<AnAnt____> slytherin: thanks, I discussed that on -java btw
<AnAnt____> slytherin: ok, another thing is that packages in main cannot depend on packages in universe, is that going to change ?
<slytherin> AnAnt____: AFAIK, that will still be true.
<AnAnt____> ok, thanks
<slytherin> can anyone please tell me what this error is - dpkg-trigger: dpkg-trigger must be called from a maintainer script (or with a --by-package option) ?
<cody-somerville> slytherin, When does it occur?
<slytherin> cody-somerville: it is occuring on powerpc buildd while setting up texlive-base. I am trying to investigate FTBFS of tuxguitar.
<\sh> siretart`: dpkg-reconfigure -a -f noninteractive kills my udevadm
<\sh> siretart`: thinking that there is a divert which isn't there...when I chroot into $target without this calkl
<\sh> siretart`: that is the problem...after dpkg-reconfigure -a ... No diversion `local diversion of /sbin/udevadm to /sbin/udevadm.upgrade', none removed
<\sh> and then udevadm is gone
<Ampelbein> hi. i have a question regarding build-retries. I have the package viking (https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/viking/0.9.8-2) FTBFS on sparc. This is because gpsd2.39 (https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gpsd/2.39-1ubuntu1) is still not build on sparc. How do I request a build-retry? Do I just poke my sponsor to retry? Or file a question on Launchpad?
<Ampelbein> Note: I want to retry when gpsd2.39 is built, of course.
<Ampelbein> Thinking about it: Shouldn't the packaging of viking be changed to reflect the build-depends correctly? i.e. Build-Dep: libgpsd-dev (>= 2.39)
<siretart`> \sh: so you blame udev?
<Ampelbein> cjwatson: as you sponsored my upload of viking: should I create a -2ubuntu1 with the correct build-depends and submit the change to debian, too? or is it sufficient to just retry once gpsd is built?
<\sh> siretart`: I blame no one :) I'm just wondering why dpkg-reconfigure triggers a reconfig of udev and then /sbin/udevadm is gone away, because there is no diversion anymore
<\sh> siretart`: the postinst script I saw and this evil rm -f /sbin/udevadm is known...but the update of udev was successfull without any errors...so there should nothing to be reconfigured, and actually there is no diversion anymore...
<siretart`> \sh: still dpkg-reconfigure should (if not *must*) be idempotent, at least when running non-interactively
<\sh> siretart`: ok...then the error is "rm -f /sbin/udevadm" while not knowing that there is no diversion
<siretart`> and of course not kill critical binaries from the system
<\sh> siretart`: well at preinst stage they moved the orig file out of the way (divert) and replaced it with a shell script..and in postinst they think "remove that shellscript" without checking that there is nothing to do because the divert is not there anymore
<siretart`> \sh: wophs. you're totally right. I'd call that a really critical bug in the udev package
<\sh> i'll talk to cjwatson
<siretart`> \sh: the postinst must check that there is a diversion in place at all before killing the binary
<siretart`> \sh: or better: don't rm -f it, but move it out of the way, and restore the contents if dpkg-divert fails for any reason
<\sh> siretart`: -> ubuntu-devel ;)
<cjwatson> Ampelbein: I wouldn't bother, just retry once it's built
<cjwatson> Ampelbein: gpsd doesn't need a retry on sparc - it's already queued for building
<Ampelbein> cjwatson: yeah, but viking failed to build and needs to be retried once gpsd built.
<cjwatson> Ampelbein: sure, I know
<cjwatson> ah, I misread your question about requesting a build-retry
<cjwatson> Ampelbein: yes, just ask me when it's ready
<binarymutant> if someone could review and possibly advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple , I will be forever grateful :)
<Laney> binarymutant: doesn't libpurple suppport microblogging itself?
<binarymutant> Laney, not that I'm aware of
<Laney> well Adium does, so unless it doesn't use libpurple for that part
<Laney> anyway I suggest you use the DEP5 copyright format if you want to get it into Debian (http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5/)
<Laney> I can't build/test now but that's really my only comment based on reading it
<binarymutant> Laney, are you sure that you haven't installed a plugin? or did you compile from their trunk?
<binarymutant> Laney, http://trac.adium.im/wiki/TwitterSupport
<Laney> 1.4 beta 6
<binarymutant> ah
<Laney> it may not be using libpurple for that part
<binarymutant> Laney, can you send and receive from your microblogging service?
<Laney> binarymutant: yes
<binarymutant> Laney, thanks for the help, I'll check out that link and look more in depth into libpurple to see if microblogging is supported
<slytherin> binarymutant: Laney: That page doesn't say adium has microblogging support.
<binarymutant> slytherin, it says it's a feature in their next release
<slytherin> binarymutant: right, but doesn't specify how they are going to implement it.
<Laney> slytherin: this was my question
<binarymutant> I will look into their trunk for how they implement it
<Laney> I'd just look at protocols/ (or whatever) in libpurple trunk
<binarymutant> that too ^
<binarymutant> urgh pidgin's vcs is down :(
<Laney> you might get results just asking either project on irc
<directhex> it's a Laney!
 * Laney gets a piggyback from directhex 
<Laney> I should have a chair today, so might be able to actually do some packaging stuffs
<Laney> that would be an exciting development
<directhex> :o chair!
<Laney> floor computing is not good
<directhex> laptop plus bed?
<mterry> cjwatson: I'm surprised by your statement that Ubuntu tries to avoid adding patch systems (even simple-patchsys).  It seems like not that much of a delta to carry.  I like patch systems.  :)
<cjwatson> mterry: it is nevertheless true, because not everyone likes patch systems
 * mterry believes they just haven't met the right patch system yet
<cjwatson> I, for instance, avoid them like the plague because they have the effect that you have to do additional work after 'dpkg-source -x' to see what's actually being applied. (But I won't force that decision on everyone.
<cjwatson> )
<cjwatson> I'm confident in saying that I have met all the patch systems in the archive
<mterry> cjwatson: Your a real man's man.  Your patch system is Debian.
<cjwatson> right now the only way to get the property I want is to have a patch system *and* to ship the source package with the patches pre-applied; and that's pretty ugly, although there are a few packages that do it
<cjwatson> dpkg-source v3 may turn out better, since then dpkg-source -x can understand the patch system in use
<cjwatson> anyway, that's all a distraction; it's still a long-standing convention that we try to keep changes minimal and avoid making essentially cosmetic packaging changes
<cjwatson> and it's not because it's a delta to carry, it's because it avoids arguments when Debian maintainers come to look at the patches we have
<directhex> patch systems keep me honest. if there's a big ol' .rej file in there, i notice
<mterry> cjwatson: Well, is it official Ubuntu policy?  If so, maybe it should be more obvious to n00bs than the one paragrah I've now found at the bottom of PackagingGuide/PatchSystems.  It even words it in an advisory way.
<cjwatson> mterry: I have no idea; it's *my* policy for sponsorship if nothing else ...
<cjwatson> (and I don't think it's way out of line with everyone else, although I haven't gone to check exactly where it's stated)
<mterry> cjwatson: Interesting that it's been your experience that maintainers prefer us not to use patch systems.  I would have thought they'd like to have patches split into logical chunks for them
<cjwatson> I didn't say that
<cjwatson> maintainers generally prefer us to follow whatever they're currently doing
<mterry> cjwatson: Right, but in the case they haven't had to patch anything yet, and thus don't have a patch sys.  Obviously if they already have one, we use that
<cjwatson> they could have had a patch system in the package with no patches, if they wanted that
<cjwatson> the safe option is to not attempt to add anything to the packaging when it isn't necessary
<mterry> cjwatson: Or if it's a native package, and we want to modify it
<cjwatson> native packages should absolutely never never never have patch systems
<cjwatson> it's daft
<mterry> cjwatson: I'm surprised again.  I would think it's very much the same relationship between us and Debian at that point as between Debian and true-upstream at that point.  Same rationales for wanting a patch sys and all that.
<cjwatson> if you're faced with a native package, just change the source directly
<cjwatson> well, I have five years of experience with native packages and this works very well
<cjwatson> if you try to add a patch system then logically you have to change the versioning scheme to non-native too and you get into a massive horrible can of worms
<mterry> cjwatson: I believe ya.  It's just not the equilibrium I would have thought.
<cjwatson> I was extremely surprised when the OEM team added a patch system to oem-config, let's put it that way :)
<directhex> hm. round and round the flame war goes. where it stops, nobody knows
<directhex> yay for mailing lists
<cjwatson> for native packages it's usually straightforward to arrange version control, which is better at dealing with these things
<mterry> cjwatson: Man, though.  It's the only way we could have done it.  We have to make lots of small changes and share them between projects.  We have like 10 distributions.
<cjwatson> you could have branched from the existing version control ...
<mterry> cjwatson: Fair enough
<mterry> cjwatson: Well, that was my doing.  Blame me and my love of patch systems then.
<cjwatson> 'bzr merge' for managing that kind of thing would probably actually have been *easier*
<mterry> directhex: Naw, I'm not arguing for patch systems, really.  Just trying to understand Ubuntu's experiences with 'em
<directhex> mterry, oh, i didn't mean your discussion with colin
<directhex> mterry, in my PERSONAL opinion, he's right, with exceptions
<mterry> directhex: Oh, right.  I missed your mailing list comment
<cjwatson> I'm probably the most anti-patch-systems in Ubuntu; lots of people like them and that's fine, I have no quarrel with that since I've inevitably reached an accommodation
<cjwatson> but I've seen a lot of cases where Debian maintainers blog about the mess that Ubuntu people made of their packages
<cjwatson> rightly or wrongly :)
<cjwatson> usually it's more difference of opinion than anything else - but it underscores that we can give ourselves an easier time if we avoid rocking certain boats
<directhex> mterry, and the primary exception is policy-based packaging. if package foo is handled in debian by the libfoo team, and the libfoo team have a foo packaging policy which mentions a patch system, i'd want the patch system integrated at that stage so the -1ubuntu1 can be applied directly as a -2
<cjwatson> and patch systems are so incredibly contentious that it's a sensitive boat to rock
<mterry> cjwatson: So, I'm not the bzr wizard that some are.  Let's say I have a logical feature that I added to oem-config.  And I've made several changes over time to that 'feature' in several commits.  What's the best way of pulling that feature out?  Do I use feature branches or is there a way of tagging commits?
<directhex> i.e. where there's clear policy over patch systems
<directhex> don't just pick *your* favourite for "someone else's" package
<cjwatson> mterry: you can use feature branches, or there's a feature in bzr called "looms" (which I'm not very familiar with personally, but they exist to solve this problem)
<cjwatson> a loom is basically like a patch system represented in version control
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/bzr-loom
<mterry> cjwatson: Hmm...  I'll look into it next time I'm butchering a package you maintain in bzr then.  :)
<cjwatson> personally I'm too disorganised to use them ;-)
<mterry> cjwatson: So an ideological distaste for patch systems and too disorganized to use version control replacements.  I'm shocked that you set yourself up to be a downstream twice-removed.  ;)
<cjwatson> oh, no, I use version control, just not looms as yet
<directhex> mterry, he's a DD, so he can pretend it's only once removed
<cjwatson> (and I definitely couldn't live without version control these days)
<cjwatson> mterry: of course, as a number of people are wont to remind us, the fewer things we carry as long-lived patches the better ...
<mterry> cjwatson: Well, the take away here is that it would be nice if we could make a more up-front guideline for MOTUs, maybe decide that it would be Ubuntu policy to not add patch systems.  Unless that runs into the same problems that Debian has with picking one.
<mok0> All this patch stuff is a lot easier if we could use source package format version 3.0
<mterry> cjwatson: I'm with ya.  The ideal Ubuntu would just be all Debian-synced packages but with branding.  ;)
<directhex> mterry, workin' on it for my little neck of the woods
<mterry> Is there a wiki page for version 3.0?  I don't know it well.
<cjwatson> we don't have a great place for normative packaging *practices* (as opposed to the things you put into packages) right now
<cjwatson> it's been on my list for ages to create an Ubuntu version of developers-reference
<mterry> cjwatson: A page in wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide would be good.  Or add it to the ubuntu-policy mirror of debian-policy
<cjwatson> right now, scattered wiki pages are about the best we have :-/
<cjwatson> it doesn't belong in ubuntu-policy - that's about what goes into packages, not the practices for maintaining them
<mok0> The wiki is more-or-less unmaintainable
 * mok0 looks forward to seeing what google wave can do
<cjwatson> mterry: 'man dpkg-source' has a section on source package formats
<mterry> cjwatson: Well, it may be semantics, but 'adding a patchsys' seems like something that goes into packages
<cjwatson> 3.0 (quilt) is the relevant one
<cjwatson> mterry: it's generally been considered a matter of best-practice kind of documentation rather than technical policy
<binarymutant> mok0, did you see the video for google wave? looks awesome so far
<mok0> binarymutant: it blew me away
<binarymutant> ya
<mok0> binarymutant: It could potentially be great for us
<binarymutant> mok0, for Ubuntu in general or for collaboration?
<mok0> binarymutant: I am sure in general, but I am thinking of Ubuntu
<binarymutant> mok0, I can see how it could be great for collaboration, how would it help Ubuntu though?
<mok0> binarymutant: it could replace gobby and the wiki
<mok0> binarymutant: possibly the mailing list
<binarymutant> mok0, wouldn't be more like a supplement to the wiki/mailing list ?
<mok0> binarymutant: which would reduce the complexity of communication; atm you have to look in a whole bunch of places
<mok0> binarymutant: in reality, probably :-) ... but I think it would be useful to reduce communication channels
<mok0> binarymutant: people are now using identi.ca as well
<binarymutant> I can't wait to see how Wave unfolds over time, it is definitely a very smart concept
<binarymutant> dep5 is confusing, do I have to use it?
<binarymutant> people in debian-mentors said that it is unlikely to become policy
<gaspa> mok0: hi. commented about your comment. :P
<gaspa> just for curiosity: what do you use to build packages?
<mok0> gaspa: I use sbuild, mostly
<mok0> gaspa: remind me of the bug number, please?
<gaspa> mok0: bug #384758
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384758 in matita "[ftbfs] matita0.5.7-2 fails to build for i386 in karmic" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384758
<gaspa> mok0: do sbuild use /dev/shm to maintain the whole build process?!? (hope not...)
<mok0> gaspa: I don't know how it works
<mok0> gaspa: I can try on another one though
<mok0> gaspa: but the buildd's use sbuild too
<persia> gaspa, sbuild relies on schroot to construct a working chroot.  Many people run schroot over LVM, but there's other ways to do it.
<persia> (note that some varieties of sbuild use dchroot, but this isn't recommended nor the default behaviour, and may not even be supported in latest packaged sbuild)
<gaspa> mok0: can't be a glitch of your machine? that filenames haven't nothing to do with matita...
<gaspa> persia: ;) k.
<mok0> gaspa: more likely a glitch in matita :-P
<gaspa> why?
<mok0> gaspa: Occam's razor
<gaspa> :D
<calc> slytherin: no
<mok0> gaspa: I will try another builder, but I need to set it up for karmic first
<calc> slytherin: iirc when we used lucene2 before it caused too much to be pulled onto the cd
<slytherin> calc: the reason I asked is that only change in Ubuntu is build-dep/dep set to default-jdk/jre. Are these changes relevant anymore if the package is not moving to main?
<gaspa> mok0: ...well, if it continue to appear that fail, I really don't know what's going on...
<gaspa> it builds fine both in a italian server (debomatic+pbuilder) and in ppa...
<gaspa> anyway... let's see... :P
<mok0> gaspa: hm, I can also check the the patch was applied properly
<calc> slytherin: hmm let me see
<slytherin> calc: if they are not then lucene2 can be synced (instead of merge).
<calc> slytherin: they can probably be dropped as its in universe, but it would be better to see if Debian will take the changes, as if i understand correctly Debian is transitioning to it as well
<calc> slytherin: it seems i forgot to file a bug report about it in the debian bts
 * calc bbia 10m
<mok0> gaspa: failed again, with another error message I've also seen on my netbook
<mok0> gzip: stdout: Broken pipe
<mok0> Undefined subroutine &Dpkg::Source::CompressedFile::subprocerr called at /usr/share/perl5/Dpkg/Source/CompressedFile.pm line 144.
<gaspa> :|
<mok0> Impressive, huh?
<gaspa> Have you the 'builder broken' magic? :D
<mok0> I will rebuild the source package, perhaps it is corrupted
<gaspa> no, jokes apart, I'll investigate.
<binarymutant> is this a decent copyright file? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/pidgin-mbpurple-0906101557/pidgin-mbpurple-0.2.1/debian/copyright
<slytherin> calc: Debian has not even started transition yet. default-jdk still points to gcj.
<calc> well its still default-jdk, just not transitioned to openjdk
<mok0> binarymutant: looks like an intermediate between the old and the new formats...
<binarymutant> mok0, yeah I don't really like the header section on dep5 :/
<binarymutant> mok0, but is that okay to do?
<calc> slytherin: but i am not certain if they have started converting over to default-jdk yet (i think they have though)
<slytherin> calc: only when the package compiles with gcj, which is still default-jdk. lucene2 does not build with gcj.
<mok0> binarymutant: actually, no
<mok0> binarymutant: write it in the new machine-readable format
<binarymutant> :(
<mok0> binarymutant: it'll only take you 2 minutes
<binarymutant> mok0, like this http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/pidgin-mbpurple-0906101621/pidgin-mbpurple-0.2.1/debian/copyright ?
<mok0> binarymutant: almost... think "debian/control" ... the file must be in RFC822 format
<mok0> binarymutant: get rid of the first 3 lines, and add " ." to the paragraphs in the license text
<binarymutant> mok0, like " .This program is free software;"[...] ? I'm not understanding the " ."
<mok0> binarymutant: like in the long description, when you have an empty line, you put space-dot
<binarymutant> ah yes okay
<mok0> binarymutant: the file is supposed to be readable by the same parser that parses debian/control
<mok0> gaspa: the build succeeded now. I've uploaded your merge
<gaspa> ah, cooool.. thank you
<gaspa> do you understood what happened?!
<mok0> gaspa: no... something must have been corrupted in my source package
<gaspa> strange...
<gaspa> anyway, thanks, again
<mok0> gaspa: please watch the package and see if it's now builds
<binarymutant> mok0, do I need to put " ." in between the license and " On Debian systems, the complete text[...]" ? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/pidgin-mbpurple-0906101633/pidgin-mbpurple-0.2.1/debian/copyright
<mok0> binarymutant: Yes, if you want it to be a part of the text above it. I usually put it in a home-made field called "X-Comment: " (RFC822 allows that)
<binarymutant> ah ok
<gaspa> mok0: karmic amd64: Successfully built.(ACCEPTED)
<gaspa> waiting for the arch-indep...
<mok0> gaspa: I did build both
<mok0> gaspa: the matita build runs a lot of unit tests... takes forever
<mok0> gaspa: I guess you know that :-)
<gaspa> yep...
<gaspa> I tried a lot of time...
<binarymutant> so this copyright file is uber-great right? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/pidgin-mbpurple-0906101645/pidgin-mbpurple-0.2.1/debian/copyright
<mok0> binarymutant: looks great
<binarymutant> awesome, the old debian/copyright style looks better though
<Laney> binarymutant: your dot alignment is weird
<binarymutant> thanks or all your help mok0 it was very educational :)
<binarymutant> Laney, what do you mean?
<mok0> binarymutant: you think so? I like the new format much better. More systematic and easy to write... especially if there are several licenses
<Laney> it should be like http://paste.debian.net/38627/
<mok0> Laney: is that the new shortened version of the GPL?
<Laney> RMS told me he likes it :)
<mok0> hehehe
<mok0> shorter than the WTFPL
<persia> More flexible as well :)
<binarymutant> Laney, gotcha thank you, it has been updated
<directhex> i feel the baz clause is too restrictive :(
<mok0> directhex: it follows naturally from foo & bar IMHO
<binarymutant> I heard on #debian-mentors that dep5 was unlikely to become policy
<mok0> binarymutant: hm?
<binarymutant> anyone want to advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple now that it's copyright file is super great? :)
<mok0> binarymutant: /me volunteers
<binarymutant> mok0, someone told me it wasn't going to become policy is this true? seems like in this channel that most agree that it will become policy
<mok0> binarymutant: Hard to predict what Debian decides
<binarymutant> when does Debian vote on things like that?
<mok0> binarymutant: don't know... it's been made a DEP now, so it's moving slowly along
<mok0> binarymutant: some debian teams are already using it
<binarymutant> hopefully not papt or pkg-ruby-extas :/
<persia> binarymutant, Whether DEP5 becomes a requirement or not is separate from whether DEP5-complaint copyright files happen to be policy compliant.
<persia> As I understand the current discussion (which may be incorrect), it's somewhat like rectangles and quadrilaterals, with DEP5 representing the spec for rectangles.
<binarymutant> I understand that dep5 is policy compliant, but I was having issues with complying to a proposal. What I understand better is pleasing the sponsors, which is why I switched styles in that copyright file :)
<persia> binarymutant, Pleasing the sponsors by doing it the way they do it is not a bad way to learn, but you'll really please the sponsors if you demonstate a deep enough understanding to argue that the way you've done it is correct (and be right).
<directhex> and/or bribe them
<binarymutant> lols
<binarymutant> I was told cookies work the best for sponsor bribes
<binarymutant> persia, I understand, I just don't agree with dep5 it seems like change for the sake of change. I do understand the argument for dep5 however too although I feel it isn't enough to become policy
<persia> binarymutant, That's fine.  Don't use it.  There's no requirement you must.
<binarymutant> it would be easier to gather statistics on licenses but what else would dep5 accomplish?
<persia> Just be sure of yourself, and be sure that the result of whatever method you use is compliant with policy.
<binarymutant> thank you persia :)
<persia> One could write a script that generated most of debian/copyright based on licensecheck.  Still needs manual review, but would hit a fair bit, and probably highlight stuff that needed closer review.
<persia> I'm undecided as to whether such a script is a good thing.
<stefanlsd> binarymutant: i've done 1 package with dep5, and it really helped in finding and listing the license requirment for each file.  I think by its nature will also make it easier for sponsors to check and also assist for future updates (i can just check those files listed now).  maybe its more useful on packages with many different licenses.
<directhex> i'd want licensecheck to suck less first
<directhex> stefanlsd, i dep5'd openjdk. more or less. now THAT was an ordeal
<binarymutant> gah I've started the dep5 talk on two irc servers now :/
<stefanlsd> directhex: yeah, a bit of a pain, but probably more correct because of it right?
<directhex> stefanlsd, oh, sure. not that any ftpmaster would want to actually double-check it
<binarymutant> mok0, does the package look good? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple
<stefanlsd> directhex: heh. yeah. but the fact that its so explict and detailed, they probably can trust it...  also, for newer upstreams, you can do quick checks against the explicit files to ensure they are the same license
<mok0> binarymutant: I was interrupted, hang on
<binarymutant> oh sorry :/
<directhex> stefanlsd, a tool to parse dep5 would be great - i.e. "dep5check src/foo/bar/baz.cs" would say what your debian/copyright proclaims, you could then check by hand
<stefanlsd> directhex: yeah ,i think thats the whole reason behind dep5. some computer parsable license file.
<binarymutant> couldn't the maintainer of an old style copyright file just write a script with a regex to do that?
<binarymutant> *nevermind*
<mok0> binarymutant: does this package differ from the one found in upstream's ppa?
<binarymutant> mok0, yes the upstream's version does not conform to policy and uses cdbs, etc
<binarymutant> and doesn't follow dep5 :P
<mok0> binarymutant: so they're ok with your work on the package?
<binarymutant> mok0, should I ask? It didn't seem like they were trying to push it into Debian or Ubuntu, no ITPs and again their's does not conform to policy
<mok0> binarymutant: it would be polite to talk to them... most likely they will be happy about it
<binarymutant> I'll write a ticket on their vcs :)
<mok0> binarymutant: great. At the same time, tell them to put copyright blurps in the source code files :-)
<binarymutant> mok0, I've already brought that up, it seems like they did not want to though :/
<binarymutant> ^ that ticket was filed around 2 weeks ago
<mok0> binarymutant: hm, it means someone could take one of their code files and put it in another project, and no-one would know where it came from
<binarymutant> mok0, I understand, the maintainer replied at first but then has ignored it ever since
<mok0> binarymutant: most upstreams aren't aware of the problems involving distribution of software
<mok0> binarymutant: it's no blocker though
<mok0> binarymutant: how would you add this plugin to pidgin, for example?
<binarymutant> mok0, it installs itself to pidgin's plugin directory if that's what you mean
<mok0> binarymutant: ok, nice. What about other apps?
<mok0> binarymutant: you mention Finch
<binarymutant> mok0, sorry it installs to lib/purple-2/ directory so it will work with Finch and other libpurple based apps
<binarymutant> had to rebuild it to see :/
<mok0> binarymutant: I think that should be made more clear in the long description
<mok0> binarymutant: "If you install this package, the plugin will work with all libpurple based clients" or something like that
<binarymutant> mok0, what do you mean? it works with Finch by default since it installs under libpurple instead of being app specific
<binarymutant> ah
<mok0> binarymutant: it would be useful if was explained to dummies like me
<binarymutant> mok0, "it works for other LibPurple base clients like Finch."
<mok0> binarymutant: sure
<binarymutant> thats what it says now :/
<binarymutant> err I mean that's what it says in revu already
<mok0> binarymutant: perhaps, but just add another sentence that says what happens when you install the pacakge
<mok0> binarymutant: then I will advocate ;-)
<binarymutant> mok0, I'm not sure how I could explain that, and looking at other pidgin plugins' descriptions is not helping either :/
<mok0> binarymutant: http://pastebin.com/f3db3d79d
<binarymutant> mok0, Isn't that being to specific to twitter?
<mok0> binarymutant: yes, perhaps "microblogging"
<\sh> siretart: ping if you have time...
<Laney> This plugin enables microblogging support for Pidgin and other libpurple clients such as finch. It supports Twitter and laconi.ca based services such as identi.ca.
<binarymutant> mok0, thank you for the comment, it has been successfully updated if you still have the time to advocate :)
<binarymutant> Laney, you like the old desc. too?
<mok0> binarymutant: +1
<binarymutant> Laney, oh I see, the "." in identica
<binarymutant> thanks mok0
<Laney> dunno what is the new one?
<binarymutant> Laney, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/pidgin-mbpurple-0906101818/pidgin-mbpurple-0.2.1/debian/control
<Laney> I don't know what "seamless" is supposed to mean here
<Laney> and the "Therefore" is weird - that sentence doesn't actually follow directly from the previous one
<mok0> That's right actually. I am responsible for that one
<binarymutant> Laney, continuous = seamless
<Laney> I'd just say "This plugin allows the sending and receiving of messages to microblogging services"
<Laney> or something like that
<mterry> What is a 'fakesync?'  Like when a changelog says 'fakesync from debian'
<Laney> and I don't think libpurple is capitalised in that way - see http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:dXp1svHGKrgJ:developer.pidgin.im/wiki/WhatIsLibpurple+libpurple&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari
<Laney> mterry: it's when the orig.tar.gz is different in debian and ubuntu
<mok0> mterry, when a real sync can't be performed because the versions are the same
<binarymutant> Laney, it was copied from upstream http://code.google.com/p/microblog-purple/
<Laney> binarymutant: Doesn't matter - you should improve it if you can
<mok0> poor binarymutant :-D
<Laney> it's quite obvious from that page that it wasn't written by a native speaker
<mterry> mok0, Laney: Thanks.  Or possibly when we take some pending Debian changes from their git, but they haven't released?
<Laney> mterry: No, that's not a sync
<mterry> Laney: OK, thanks
<binarymutant> mok0, Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/192750/ this seems better (?)
<mok0> binarymutant: you don't mention finch anymore?
<binarymutant> mok0, "[...] other libpurple based clients"
<mok0> binarymutant: that requires that you know that finch is libpurple based...
<binarymutant> true
<mok0> binarymutant: I would like it to be clear to the non-technical user coming from Windows what the package is good for
<mok0> binarymutant: people know what microblogging is, but nobody knows what libpurple is
<mok0> binarymutant: how would you explain it to your mother?
<mok0> binarymutant: that's what it should be like
<cjwatson> mterry: the underlying constraint here is that once we've published a file with a given name to the archive, we can't change its contents
<cjwatson> mterry: there are two reasons for this. Firstly it would be impossible to make both old and new versions available at the same time if we did that; secondly it allows a very significant rsync optimisation for mirrors (i.e. once they have a file with the right name and size, they don't need to recheck its checksum)
<mterry> cjwatson: Understood
<binarymutant> mok0, http://paste.ubuntu.com/192764/ a better revision :)
<mok0> It's better
<mok0> binarymutant: ping me later for a new vote, I have to go
<binarymutant> mok0, thanks for all your help
<ausimage> hey all
<ausimage> I am trying to get my package into universe....
<ausimage> I am trying to understand get-orig-source...
<ausimage> This goes in the rules ??
<ausimage> but what if it is a pure python pacakage without sections like it shows?
<ausimage> is it better as watch then?
<cjwatson> get-orig-source goes in debian/rules, yes, but it's optional and it's usually only provided in weird cases
<ausimage> cjwatson: but revu thinks it is required?
 * cjwatson blinks
<cjwatson> guess none of my packages would pass revu then ;-)
<ausimage> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=5990
<ausimage> This package has no debian/watch file or get-orig-source rule.
<cjwatson> (a) I think that means one or the other not both (b) it's a warning
<cjwatson> these days, debian/watch is more usual for simple cases, I believe
<ausimage> cjwatson: I am asking given the rules is a DEB_PYTHON
<cjwatson> it doesn't matter what language it's in
<cjwatson> get-orig-source / debian/watch is about where the original source comes from
<cjwatson> what language it's written in is startlingly irrelevant
<cjwatson> anyway, off to watch a film :)
<ausimage> I can append sections to a virtually blank rules then?
<cjwatson> sure
<cjwatson> they're called 'targets'
<cjwatson> see 'info make'
<cjwatson> (you might need the make-doc package installed for that)
<ausimage> ahh it seems easier I guess
<cjwatson> like I say though, if your .orig.tar.gz is just downloaded directly from some upstream site and there's no funny business going on with repacking it, then I'd advise using debian/watch and not get-orig-source
<cjwatson> I'd only advise get-orig-source when the process of constructing the .orig.tar.gz is more than just downloading something
<cjwatson> e.g. removing non-free material, or converting between compression formats
<ausimage> oh?
<cjwatson> but anyhow, really gone
<ausimage> is http://ze-dinosaur.livejournal.com/6368.html relevant for creating watch files?
<ausimage> the version on ubu wiki is so much more complicated :/
<fabrice_sp_> ausimage, in the debian/watch filecreated by default, you have the same content
<fabrice_sp_> you can then test it by running uscan --verbosse to check the watch file is correct
<ausimage> ok...
<fabrice_sp_> s/verbosse/verbose
<ausimage> anyone know how to set dch to use a different email addies?
<nhandler> ausimage: The DEBEMAIL environment variable controls that
<geser> export DEBEMAIL and export DEBFULLNAME
<ausimage> ahhh...
<ausimage> k
<ausimage> google and -h were not helpful to that end
<nhandler> ausimage: It is in the manpage
<ausimage> ahhh... guess I never think about that :/
<james_w> I'd appreciate reviews of http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/lazr.uri if anyone has a minute
<james_w> it's a new dependency of launchpadlib
<ajmitch> james_w: not going with the normal python-foo naming?
<james_w> for the binary
<binarymutant> what does PR mean in a debian/changelog ?
<binarymutant> patch released?
<hyperair> binarymutant: which changelog?
<binarymutant> hyperair, it's in gcc4.4 ie "PR bootstrap/40027,"
<hyperair> O_o
<hyperair> ask the gcc guys
<Laney> james_w: Newer debian policy, no watch file. And on a style note, consider DEP5 copyright and DH7 watch file
 * Laney test builds
<sebner> Laney: dh7 watch file. did I miss something?
<james_w> rules :-)
<binarymutant> hyperair, thanks for trying :)
<Laney> erm
<Laney> rules
<Laney> I'm distracted by TV
<hyperair> binarymutant: heheh
<sebner> heh
<sebner> dh7 rules ftw!
<hyperair> hehe
<hyperair> dh7 watchfile eh
<fabrice_sp_> binarymutant, Problem Report?
 * Laney watches hyperair 
 * hyperair watches Laney 
<james_w> are you going to make me upgrade to karmic so that I can read upgrading-checklist for the latest policy?
<Laney> it's not online?
<directhex> and ix 5 bugs, too
<sebner> james_w: yeah, dev upgrade \o/
<james_w> found the announcement of the release now
<james_w> watch file isn't easy though :-)
<iulian> james_w: Please don't use dh_clean -k because it's deprecated, you can use dh_prep instead.
<james_w> no I can't
<james_w> that's dh7 only
<iulian> Don't you use dh7?
<iulian> Ah, misread.
<iulian> There are two lintian warnings as well (W: python-lazr-uri: copyright-lists-upstream-authors-with-dh_make-boilerplate and W: python-lazr-uri: spelling-error-in-description python Python)
<iulian> That's all from me.
 * iulian goes to bed.
<james_w>  o/~ join us now and carefully edit debian/copyright files! o/~
<james_w> thanks iulian
<ramvi> I'm creating a bash script, I chroot, but then my choot lose control () it can't keep running commands. Why is that?
<hyperair> because chroot spawns a shell inside the new root.
<hyperair> any subsequent commands in the bash script will be run *after* that shell has exited
<hyperair> if you want to get it to run commands, you'll have to dump it into a script inside the chroot, and then run chroot with the path to that script.
<james_w> thanks for all the comments, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/lazr.uri updated
<ramvi> hyperair: thanks!!
<Laney> james_w: I'm trying to build the source package and it's attempting to download some file and 404ing
<Laney> http://pypi.python.org/packages/2.6/s/setuptools/setuptools-0.6c8-py2.6.egg
<james_w> you don't have Build-Depends installed?
<hyperair> ramvi: np
<Laney> huh, evidently not
<Laney> but that's an unfriendly way to bail
<Laney> not your package's problem though
<james_w> nope, I'll file a bug
<ajmitch> Laney: probably python stuff trying to be smart
<Laney> james_w: ok I'm happy with it. Advocated
<james_w> thanks Laney
<Daviey> Hey, what is the best way to have a version number that includes the date (ie, 20090610) in the changelog to ensure it is a newer sub-version?
 * ajmitch wonders if it'll cause a precedent for naming python modules like that
<Daviey> so, for example = 1.0-20090610 ?
<Daviey> should it be -, ~ or _ ? :)
<directhex> Daviey, "newer"? what is it now?
<Daviey> 1.0
<directhex> Daviey, +
<Laney> Daviey: Is this an SVN snapshot type of situation?
<Daviey> directhex: it's not for a ubuntu repo package, but ppa
<Daviey> Laney: pretty much
<Laney> 1.0+svnyyyymmdd
<directhex> -1
<Daviey> so 1.0+yyyymmdd will show it as the most recent when built?
<directhex> Daviey, + is always higher than nothing
<directhex> Daviey, so "1.0+" > "1.0"
<Daviey> directhex: sure, but is 1.0+20090611 > 1.0+20090610
<Laney> you can use dpkg --compare-versions to check
<directhex> Daviey, well, yes
<directhex> Daviey, that's the point of iso date order
<Daviey> that'll do, thanks chaps
<Laney> dpkg --compare-versions x gt y && echo true
<binarymutant> is the FeatureFreeze for universe on the 18th or is it just main?
<Laney> 18th?!
<ajmitch> binarymutant: FeatureDefinitionFreeze != FeatureFreeze
<binarymutant> oh
<Laney> I don't think that affects us much, if at all
<ajmitch> the first is getting specs finalised
<directhex> August 27th
<directhex> FeatureFreeze
<ajmitch> do you really think there'd only be ~2 weeks of feature development for karmic since UDS? :)
<binarymutant> ah thanks you
<binarymutant> s/thanks/thank
<siretart> \sh: pong
<maxb> Why does bzr strip leading whitespace when automatically seeding the commit message from debian/changelog?
<maxb> I'm so used to properly formatted debian/changelogs that it looks really wrong to me
<james_w> maxb: that's the convention from debcommit
<maxb> ok, why is it the convention? :-)
<cjwatson> ausimage: belatedly, watch file reference and examples: 'man uscan'
<cjwatson> maxb: I like it myself, it produces much neater commit messages that are closer to what you'd get if you were typing the commit message into bzr commit directly
<cjwatson> (well, of course I like it, I made that change to bzr-builddeb ...)
 * directhex is confused. is maco confused too?
<directhex> popey, is listening to this podcast going to make me want to stab something?
<ausimage> thanks cjwatson ;)
<ausimage> I'd appreciate any python or packaging experts comments on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6008 :)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-11
<sharms> can anyone point me to documentation about lpia?
<sharms> ie what flags it uses, where it sets them
<sharms> or is it some secret non documented process
<superm1> sharms, lpia is no longer a 'supported' architecture starting with karmic
<sharms> superm1: yeah I just have a dell mini 9 with the default dell load, and I was trying to figure out exactly how lpia worked
<sharms> unfortunately they didnt document almost anything about it
<sharms> but dpkg-buildpackage should tell me what I need to know, its just disappointed
<sharms> this stuff should be more open
<superm1> sharms, i believe basically gcc should be preconfigured right if you install it
<superm1> shouldn't need to worry too much about what flags are needed and what not
<ajmitch> superm1: lpia has been dropped from support?
<superm1> ajmitch, it's just chugging along in case its needed in the future
<superm1> but no media will be generated from it i believe
<superm1> there was a session at UDS to discuss this
<ajmitch> which are the true 'supported' architectures now ?
<sharms> superm1: it is important for me to know exactly how they compile packages.  You would think somewhere on the wiki it would say 'For LPIA we use these compile flags: '
<ajmitch> and obviously the majority of us weren't at UDS nor do we have time to dig through 100+ wiki pages
<superm1> ajmitch, i386, arm*, and amd64
<superm1> ppc chugs along on ports
<superm1> i forget what the decision was about hppa and sparc though
<ajmitch> "discussed at UDS" does irritate me at times for stuff that could be better communicated :)
<ausimage> where's Ncommander? thought he worked specifically on those arches
<sharms> I agree, I wish the wiki was used a bit more
<superm1> sharms, i'd apt-get source glibc and take a look at the flags that are applied in debian/rules
<superm1> they should surely be there
<ajmitch> sharms: this is the sort of thing that should have made it to ubuntu-devel-announce
<superm1> or gcc - i'm not which is the main source package
<sharms> ajmitch: it was sent to devel-announce, but had 0 details
<NCommander> ausimage, hrm?
<sharms> lwn.net post also didnt have details, just people asking for details
<sharms> and obviously no responses
<ausimage> lpia switches
<NCommander> lpia builds with -Os, and a set of tune flags which I don't remember off hand
<ajmitch> sharms: I don't see anything beyond the "community-supported ARM release" on u-d-a
<NCommander> however, lpia is completely unsupported (and has never been recommended for general usage)
<ajmitch> and hppa eol
<sharms> NCommander: right but it shipped on my dell, so I have an interest in it
<NCommander> We decided at UDS to leave it building, but remove all kernels and such, so its effectively EOL
<NCommander> sharms, that's OSG ubuntu, and not consistant with the main archive
<NCommander> sharms, distribution upgrades and the like from machines pre-installed with ubuntu are not supported.
<NCommander> *OSG's
<superm1> that's not correct - it depends on if there is a custom repo in place
<sharms> ok maybe you don't understand.  I am a developer.  I write software.  I am simply looking for information on the LPIA settings
<superm1> the dell netbooks that ship intentionally have a custom repo, and upgrades aren't supported
<sharms> I do not want support, just transparent development
<sharms> get it?
<superm1> any other dell machines that ship with ubuntu have standard repos and can do standard upgrades and what not
<NCommander> superm1, sharms, for lpia/hardy, then the only difference is we target i686 unless that was changed by OSG
<NCommander> superm1, then I'm mistaken. My bad.
<NCommander> superm1, but I thought dell shipped i386 on all machines that didn't have custom repos.
<superm1> NCommander, which is true, and dist upgrades are supported just fine
<NCommander> superm1, right, my mistake.
<NCommander> sharms, what model of Dell machine do you have?
<sharms> Dell Mini 9
<superm1> those definitely ship with lpia and custom repos
<NCommander> sharms, right, which runs a customized version of Ubuntu from Dell
<sharms> again I dont want support, I just want to know what files where changed to enforce the LPIA compile settings on the distro
<NCommander> sharms, there is no change. Hardy i386 and lpia are identicial except the later builds against i686
<NCommander> and that might not even be true for OSG's archives or hardy
<sharms> and being that I see lpia-wrapper is in karmic, someone has to know what files those are
<NCommander> sharms, I wrote lpia-wrapper
<NCommander> sharms, it was an experiment in building the archive with -Os for karmic only.
<sharms> So they named it lpia, but really its just Ubuntu i686?
<NCommander> sharms, no. Originally, lpia was to be optimized for the Intel atom processor, and was bootstrapped with the gutsy cycle
<NCommander> sharms, that never happened, so lpia and i386 are functionally equivelent
<NCommander> Except for minor incompatibilities caused by the lpia architecture string.
<NCommander> (aka, why you can't just install skype without playing on the command line)
<ajmitch> sounds like a mess
<NCommander> ajmitch, s/sounds like/is/g
<sharms> I appreciate the info, can you point me to what file stores the default DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS?
<NCommander> sharms, its in /usr/share/ somewhere, but there is no difference for lpia vs i386
<sharms> ha ok
<ajmitch> so lpia was a vicious lie foisted upon us, and we can drop all those diffs that we carry for packages to make them build on lpia?
<NCommander> ajmitch, no, we need those still
<NCommander> ajmitch, that's the arch-string incompatibility I brought up before.
<StevenK> There isn't many of them left
<StevenK> I've been killing lpia-only diffs this go round as I get time
<ajmitch> carrying deltas againt debian for an effectively EOL arch does cause some headaches :)
<NCommander> ajmitch, its not officially EOL until we kill the port outright, the problem is there is a chance we might actually need the lpia port in the semi-future, hence why it didn't get the ax along with the hppa port.
<ajmitch> this is why I bitch about the lack of information beyond "We discussed it at UDS" :)
<NCommander> ajmitch, where was that said?
<sharms> I havent heard any of this information except right here right now
<sharms> no mailing list communication of it, nor wiki
<ajmitch> what sharms just said
<ajmitch> both you & superm1 replied with "We discussed" or "We decided"
<ajmitch> not your fault, just that it hasn't got beyond that point
<NCommander> ajmitch, sharms, well, I won't speak for the Hardy/lpia used in the custom Dell repos. I know fairly little about it, so I'm not sure if everything I just said w.r.t. to compiler flags is revelent to it
<NCommander> But with Gutsy-Jaunty, lpia was essentially i386 Ubuntu compiled targetting i686
<ajmitch> NCommander: I'm not caring about the compiler flags, just about the arch being supported & something to care deeply about fixing breakage one
<NCommander> ajmitch, its never been supported in the main archive.
<sharms> NCommander: with respect to Ubuntu, not Dell,  Matthias Klose sent a mail to Ubuntu Announce about lpia specifically saying: "uses different optimizations options in the compiler,
<sharms> different configuration and build options for some packages."
<sharms> but with absolutely no details anywhere else
 * ajmitch must have always got the wrong impression that it was then
<NCommander> ajmitch, the only reason its supported for PPAs is because you can easily virtualize i386 :-)
<sharms> which makes it hard to get involved with understanding it, when the wiki has no info and the mailing lists turn up no results other than people guessing what they are, and some moblin guys suggesting what might be good flags
<NCommander> sharms, that was earlier this cycle, right?
<sharms> I wouldnt know because further information isnt available except here on IRC :)
<NCommander> sharms, most people do development on i386 or amd64, so there isn't a lot of people who would be interested in the i386-lpia differences
<NCommander> (or those people could be sadistic like me, and use an ia64 desktop)
<sharms> right, but if I want to fix a bug, finding some kind of information would be great
<ajmitch> NCommander: I don't envy your power bill
<NCommander> ajmitch, the same circuit also powers three sparcs, my laptop, three ARM boards, the powermac, a powerbook, a PReP PPC, the TV, and the XBox 360
<NCommander> ajmitch, I'm kinda wondering if the next machine will finally blow the breaker.
<ajmitch> 3-phase power? ;)
<sharms> NCommander: and someone had to discuss compiler flags, build options and configurations somewhere.  It just wasn't done anywhere in the open that people can reference
<sharms> Klose didnt just go off as a lone cowboy and set all that up I am sure
<NCommander> ajmitch, the power bill isn't too bad. I make up for it in the heating costs of a weekend.
<ajmitch> NCommander: if you know the right people to poke, get lpia renamed to lpia (unnofficial) on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic
<ajmitch>  pages like that are what mislead me
<sharms> ajmitch: it is only misleading because you didnt hear the uds discussion :)
<NCommander> ajmitch, that probably should also have armel as official :-/
<ajmitch> sharms: I obviously needed to stay up until 4AM to listen in on it :)
<ajmitch> NCommander: if armel is official, then yes it should be :)
<sharms> ha
 * NCommander isn't even sure who can flip that switch
<NCommander> It requires a duck and that's all I know
<ajmitch> sharms: UDS was about 10 or 11 hours behind my timezone, made listening in on anything a bit hard
<TheMuso> Wouldn't signalling a port as official require it to be moved to a.u.c?
<sharms> yeah it would be cool to see more blog entries etc about technical ideas
<NCommander> TheMuso, no, that's just for mirroring reasons. lpia has been marked official since hardy(?), and its on ports.u.c
<sharms> so I can atleast google it
<TheMuso> NCommander: oh right.
<NCommander> sharms, *cough* I have meant to send an email about that, but it slipped off my TODO list
<sharms> NCommander: well the info is much appreciated, regardless of date presented :)
<NCommander> I probably need a RT ticket to get the (unofficial) flag changed
<ajmitch> do the magic, I don't care how :)
<NCommander> wow, the last upload to dapper was more than two months ago
<ajmitch> I guess the list of critical bugs to get fixed has shrunk a bit
<ajmitch> apart from security stuff
<NCommander> ajmitch, in dapper?
<ajmitch> do dapper-security uploads go through dapper-changes?
<ajmitch> because I'm sure there have been things to get fixed in those 2 months
<jdstrand> iirc, there is a bug that prevents -security uploads from going to -changes
<ajmitch> right, so -changes is underrepresenting the number of uploads, no big problem
<ScottK> IIRC it's a misfeature, not a bug but the result is the same.
<Andphe> hello everyone, newbiew here
<Andphe> I took a debian package and try to port it to ubuntu
<Andphe> indeed I put it at my ppa https://launchpad.net/~andphe/+archive/ppa
<ScottK> Andphe: What package?
<Andphe> v4l2ucp
<Andphe> right now I'm trying to add it a menu entry and a icon
<Andphe> I read doc about dh_installmenu, but not sure how to proceed
<Andphe> this is the rules file
<Andphe> http://paste.ubuntu.com/193158/
<Andphe> I added the cp line to copy the icon
<ScottK> The package is already in Ubuntu in Karmic.
<Andphe> but not sure where to put the dh_installmenu
<ScottK> You might look at that version.
<Andphe> ScottK really ?
<Andphe> that is a great and bad news
<ScottK> v4l2ucp | 1.3-0ubuntu1 | karmic/universe | source, amd64, i386
<Andphe> because the package is in karmic but I wasted my time
<Andphe> well
<Andphe> thank you
<ScottK> No problem.
<Andphe> I'll take a look
<Andphe> ;(
<ScottK> I'd guess you likely learned something in the process, so I doubt it was a waste.
 * Andphe going to cry to another place
<Andphe> yep I learned something :)
<Andphe> figthing with the menu issue
<Andphe> thanks again
<Andphe> bye
<ScottK> Bye.
<Andphe> get back
<Andphe> the karmic one doesn't have a menu neither
<Andphe> nor a icon
<ausimage> Andphe: at least for gnome the menu item is .desktop file... and the format is fairly simple
<Andphe> ausimage: as I understand having a v4l2ucp.menu file the dh_installmenu helper would do the trick
<Andphe> right ?
<Andphe> having this rules file http://paste.ubuntu.com/193158/
<Andphe> where should go the dh_installmenu line ?
<ausimage> not sure... but creating the a desktop file to be included is quite easy
<ausimage> I personally just place the desktop file where it is supposed to be
<Andphe> I see
<ausimage> though I am just learning all the ropes too :)
<Andphe> finally found a example
<Andphe> http://www.togaware.com/linux/survivor/rules.html
<ausimage> http://paste.ubuntu.com/193168/ <== my desktoop
 * Andphe trying
<Andphe> Thanks for share
<ausimage> *er my desktop menu file...
<ausimage> yw
<ausimage> anyone know why dch is not picking up my version changes?
 * ausimage thinks hand edits were far simpler to manage at this rate :/
<lifeless> ausimage: dch edits the changelog, it doesn't look at diffs or anything
<ausimage> lifeless... I thought it would advance my versions automatically...
<ausimage> I am now stuck with a cli editor to write a new stanza... :(
<ausimage> should it not at least check the version info in the directory name itself?
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> you tell dch what you want it to do
<lifeless> dch --help
<ausimage> I looked...
<ausimage> :/
<ausimage> could not tell which switch advances the versioning
<ausimage> a nice gui editor.... select copy paste click click done.... ;)
<bddebian> dch -i, dch --nmu, dch --qa will all advance the version
<ausimage> which does the app versioning?
<bddebian> ???
<ausimage> the way I read the switches they only affected the package versioning
<bddebian> Unless it is a native package, of course
<bddebian> Upstream does the app versioning
<ausimage> I am the upstream... for the package...
<bddebian> Then you set the version :)
<ausimage> and when I use dch I would expect to see the version in the directory :/
<ausimage> directory name
<bddebian> No, dch will never adjust an upsteam version
<bddebian> Nor does it change the dir name afaik
<ausimage> it did I think once for me
<bddebian> Well unless it is a native package I should say.
<bddebian> Was it a native package?
<ausimage> um that time it was I think... only cause it can't seem to realize the taz.gz is still in the parent dir :/
<ausimage> bddebian and last few package turns I made with my package it has wanted me to -0ubuntu in addition to the orig for the tarball...
<ausimage> I was wondering if someone could tell me why my package builds on jaunty but not karmic...
<ausimage> it is in revu here http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6023
<ausimage> I did nothing to the package 'cept change karmic to jaunty :/
<ausimage> from my ppa log of the karmic build it claims a dir path is missing :/ from soovee-common
<persia> ausimage, Do you have a karmic buildlog?
<ausimage> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ausimage/+archive/soovee/+build/1069853/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.soovee_1.07.2-0ubuntu-1~jaunty~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ausimage> persia is that ok?
<StevenK> dh_install: soovee-common missing files (debian/tmp/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/soovee_app/pages/*), aborting
<StevenK> I guess Python in Karmic is putting them somewhere else
<ausimage> yup... but it does not complain about it with jaunty
<ausimage> oh ahh :/
<StevenK> Hard coding python version is bad, too
<StevenK> You know, things are allowed to change from Jaunty to Karmic?
<ausimage> yeah... but I was not aware of what did
<ausimage> and I did not know how else to set the *.install lists
<persia> I think you'll want to play with dh_install --list-missing
 * ausimage has already been accused of using a bigger tool than necessary when it comes to packaging ;)
<StevenK> Bigger *hammer*
<ausimage> with the changelog pointing at karmic ?
<persia> But you might also want to try to find someone who has experience splitting python packages: there may be an especially good way to do things in an automated fashion.
<ausimage> oh yeah that would be nice...
<persia> Doesn't matter what the changelog says.  It matters what you build against.
<persia> Also, you ought to delete debian/souvee.install: it's a useless file.
<ausimage> k that I can do...
<persia> changelog.sch.save looks like a leftover as well.
<ausimage> cleaned that up
<StevenK> dh 7 needs to support applying patches and then cdbs can completly die
<ausimage> persia it looks like dh_install needs me to build first :/
<persia> StevenK, dh --with-quilt
<ausimage> cause it does not seem to find the dir eitherway...
<persia> ausimage, Just add --list-missing in your rules file, build, and examine the build log.
<StevenK> persia: ARGH
<StevenK> persia: But Quilt BURNS
<ajmitch> StevenK: what don't you like about it?
<persia> StevenK, Then write a --with addon for your favorite patch system :p
<StevenK> ajmitch: It's a sledgehammer of a patch system
<ausimage> same thing persia...
<StevenK> And I invariably break my kneecaps while swinging it
<persia> ausimage, Yes, the error is expected.  It's the other information in the log that will tell you what you aren't installing.
<StevenK> Having to quilt new ; quilt add ; edit ; quilt refresh ; quilt omg-it-hurts ...
<persia> You ought only need to push -a, add, pop -a.
<StevenK> If I'm modifying a patch that is at the top of the stack, yes
<ausimage> i thought install got its files after building :/
<StevenK> It requires too much workflow to use effectively
<persia> Different definitions of "build".  There's "build" in the sense of converting source into the target format (usually just copying stuff around for python), and "build" in the sense of creating binary packages.
<persia> StevenK, Then write more addons.  It oughtn't be hard to create a dpatch add-on.  simple-patchsys probably requires a bit more effort.
<ausimage> i think it is convert source into target part....
<StevenK> What?
<ausimage> k that is wierd... i did a dpkg-build package with it set as karmic build and it built
<ausimage> though I know not to put weight in that
<ausimage> :S
<ausimage> I guess I need to ask another python packager for help on this....
<ausimage> anyone know who qualifies?
<persia> StevenK, Debian bug #527255 probably contains sufficient guidance if you're actually going to do it...
<ubottu> Debian bug 527255 in debhelper "debhelper still needs manual modification in debian/rules to involve" [Wishlist,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/527255
<ausimage> persia it seems that pythoncentral might be borked :/
<ausimage> it shows the files in lib.linux-i686-2.6lib.linux-i686-2.6
<ausimage> i meant lib.linux-i686-2.6 not python-2.6
 * ausimage is overtired and might be reading that right :/
<persia> ausimage, I can't tell you what is right, because I don't know.  I can only point you at tools that can help you figure out what might be right.
<ausimage> ah sorry...
<persia> No need to be sorry.  I just didn't want you to think I was ignoring you :)
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> hey dholbach ! Good morning
<dholbach> hi fabrice_sp
<fabrice_sp> dholbach, did you see my answer in #384936?
<fabrice_sp> bug #384936
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384936 in gmerlin "libgmerlin0 cause a coredump in new version of openmovieeditor because the lib package miss the plugins" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384936
<dholbach> no not yet
<fabrice_sp> ok
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: I hope the Debian maintainers adopt the change
<dholbach> nhandler: great work on getting the perl session on the schedule!
<fabrice_sp> dholbach, we can wait, as I can't get the gmerlin-avdecoder merge sponsored, so no new openmovieeditor that will make use of that lib... :-(
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hiya ajmitch
<porthose> dholbach: good mourning, when you have time, can we talk about bug #385066?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 385066 in icon-slicer "Sync icon-slicer 0.3-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/385066
<dholbach> porthose: sure
<porthose> I think the change in src/main.c should have been applied with a patch sytem
<porthose> but it wasn
<porthose> wasn't
<dholbach> porthose: icon-slicer doesn't use a patch system in Ubuntu right now, so it seems that the maintainer was happy to directly patch the source
 * fabrice_sp remembers a similar discussion :-)
<porthose> but I thought all changes outside of the debian directory should be applied with a patch system?
<dholbach> porthose: that depends on the preference of the maintainer
<dholbach> porthose: there are lots of packages that directly apply patches (especially native packages or packages that have the full source in a version control system)
<porthose> ok, guess I need to do some more detective work, thanks ;-)
<dholbach> no worries
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: I'll take a look at gmerlin-avdecoder in a bit
<dholbach> (sorting out some other stuff right now)
<fabrice_sp> porthose, that's quite easy to detect: just have a look at debian diff file. If it contans change to the source, no patch system needed :-)
<porthose> that's what I am doing right now :)
<qiyong> may i ask an apt-mirror question?
<dholbach> fabrice_sp, porthose: or run "what-patch" from the ubuntu-dev-tools package :)
<fabrice_sp> dholbach, thanks! :-) As it's a new package from Debian Multimedia, it's not so easy to find someone willing to look at it :-)
<fabrice_sp> !ask | qiyong
<ubottu> qiyong: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<qiyong> how can I get apt-mirror to mirror two arch's ?
<StevenK> List them in the config file
<qiyong> set defaultarch i386 amd64
<qiyong> ^doesn't work
<qiyong> set defaultarch i386, amd64
<qiyong> ^neither
<StevenK> My apt-mirror manual page doesn't list defaultarch at all?
<persia> fabrice_sp, porthose: Note that debian/README.source, if present, should provide detailed advice on how a package is to be patched.  Also, be aware that in some cases there will be a mix of patch systems and non-patch systems, for annoying reasons related to how the some of the patch systems work: in these cases, use the patch system if possible.
<StevenK> qiyong: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-599479.html
<fabrice_sp> persia, in general, I use the existing patch system (basically, if there is a patches directory in debian), otherwise, look at the diff file to see if some files has been modified
<qiyong> StevenK: so?
<fabrice_sp> what is Nuku-Nuku? a bot?
<persia> fabrice_sp, In most cases, that ought work.
<qiyong> StevenK: i want to mirror both amd64 and i386
<StevenK> qiyong: I refuse to spell it out for you, read the documentation.
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: yeah, it's a bot
<qiyong> StevenK: i get it :)
<qiyong> StevenK: deb-arch
<persia> Hobbsee, I can't seem to remember the right syntax.  Can you make it go away again, unless you know it to be an approved bot?
<Hobbsee> persia: it's lucidfox's - the best way to get it gone is to probably request it not be here.  I'm not sure why it's here to start with
<persia> Hobbsee, Oh, suddenly I have a reasonable path to solution.  Thanks.
<Hobbsee> persia: you're welcome
<persia> I can't complain about a bot, given the somewhat indirect nature of my own access, but I do intend to complain about the annoying responses I get all the time.
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, it certainly shouldn't be triggering on ! and should be changed.
<Hobbsee> or at least, if it wants to stay in ubuntu land
<persia> Right.  non-triggering bots for various purposes (personal logging, intermediation of access, etc.) seem reasonable, so long as they are mostly indistinguishable from normal users.
<persia> Active bots seem to violate the "no bots" policy fairly clearly.
<Hobbsee> indeed.  I think ! is the standard, so it's probably just an oversight.  I'll point it out, or you're welcome to - you'll probably see LucidFox first
<persia> Perhaps.  I'm at least motivated, as I've been becoming increasingly annoyed by that bot for the past several weeks.
<nixternal> so what are we talking about in here that has the screen all filled up?
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: is there a reason the debian-multimedia folks don't use those build-deps?
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: it ftbfs for me - I just added a comment to REVU
<Stupendoussteve> dholbach: Are you around?
<dholbach> Stupendoussteve: yes
<fabrice_sp_> dholbach, I'll check. Thanks
<fabrice_sp_> Oh: it FTBFS because of a change in karmic. I have to check the correct changes
<Stupendoussteve> dholbach: In your comment on bug #374350 you asked why I updated config.sub to 2008. I actually don't really know. That is to say, the a previous Ubuntu delta updates config.sub to a 2007 version without it being mentioned in any changelog
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 374350 in ssed "Please merge ssed 3.62-6.3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374350
<dholbach> Stupendoussteve: some packages will automatically update config.{sub,guess} if available and that's fine
<dholbach> Stupendoussteve: I just wasn't sure if there was a reason why you mentioned it :)
<dholbach> ... if there was a specific reason
<Stupendoussteve> I see. Is it something that I shouldn't bother doing myself in a merge?
<dholbach> Stupendoussteve: if the package builds as expected without updating, I wouldn't bother
<persia> It's not usually done as part of a merge, although some packages auto-update at source-build time (which I personally find to be the *most* annoying of the three possible times to update)
<Stupendoussteve> I see, I'll remove that part when I work on the other changes
<dholbach> Stupendoussteve: let me know when you updated it and I'll take a look again
<Stupendoussteve> That package was confusing. If I used mergemaster the deb-ubuntu diff was 80KiB, but the diff from previous to new Ubuntu versions ended up being like 4KiB, something fishy
<iulian> Erm, how do I stop the update-manager from popping out?
<slytherin> iulian: check release notes of jaunty
<iulian> slytherin: Aha! Got it, thanks.
<Stupendoussteve> dholbach: Patch in bug #374350 looks better now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 374350 in ssed "Please merge ssed 3.62-6.3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374350
<fabrice_sp_> dholbach, gmerlin-avdecoder is in the NEW queue of Debian (http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/gmerlin-avdecoder_1.0.0-1.html). How long does it  take to have it accepted? automatic merge would do the trick
<fabrice_sp_> (and by the way: debian added the same build dependency, except libmjpegtools :-) )
<dholbach> fabrice_sp_: nice... no idea how long it will take, but I think it's fine to merge from NEW... or something
<dholbach> Stupendoussteve: good work - uploaded
<persia> NEW isn't public, so it's non-trivial to merge and guarantee matched orig.tar.gz
<persia> Better to wait until closer to DIF.
<fabrice_sp_> let's wait, then. It has been uploadded by the same guy as gmerlin, so I think it should go fast
<fabrice_sp_> 2 days ago
<fabrice_sp_> another question: when dealing with bug #383825, I found a FTBFS in koffice. Is it better to open a new bug report, attach the debdiff, and subscribe main sponsors??
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383825 in texlive-bin "[karmic] libpoppler4 -> libpoppler5 transition" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383825
<persia> fabrice_sp_, If you can fix more than one thing in a single bug, that's a win.  Save the bug numbers, as there is a limited supply.
<fabrice_sp_> persia, ok. I'll attach the debdiff to this one, then. Thanks for your answer!
<persia> fabrice_sp_, Thanks for fixing the bug :)
<fabrice_sp_> :-D
<persia> Don't forget to mention everything in the changelog entry though: the sponsors will be checking to make sure your changelog matches the changes, even if you fix a few extra bugs along the way.
<fabrice_sp_> sure
<cjwatson> sharms: I don't know if it was explicitly stated by anyone in the discussion last night, but just to be clear, there's no "secret" buildd magic involved in lpia - it's entirely in packages, so for example you can just look at the gcc-4.3 etc. source package to see the default compiler flags. There is no default setting of DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS on lpia or any other architecture.
<persia> Well, there's DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=parallel=n+1, but that's true for every architecture.
<persia> (and only on the buildds)
<savvas> is this line ok in debian/install with debhelper >= 7: data/etc/ ./
<persia> savvas, Yes, but it's awfully odd.  What is it intended to do?
<savvas> hm.. you're right
<savvas> I guess conffiles should be better :)
<persia> savvas, What are you trying to accomplish?
<savvas> I have some configuration files that need to be installed
 * persia glares at "amd64 not in arch list: amd64 arm armel hppa i386 powerpc sparc kfreebsd-i386 kfreebsd-amd64 ppc64 lpia -- skipping"
<savvas> http://paste.ubuntu.com/193311/
<persia> savvas, You want "data/etc/* etc/" (assuming such a glob won't have false matches)
<savvas> that's better, thanks!
<savvas> er.. just for the record, debian/conffiles isn't the place for such files?
<persia> I generally don't put anything in debian/conffiles, and trust debhelper to just mark anything I stick in /etc as a conffile (although I forget which bit of magic does this)
<savvas> I heard that too, thanks again :)
<savvas> heard or saw, can't remember actually :P
<persia> Ah, it's dh_installdeb.  "In V3 compatibility mode and higher, all files in the etc/ directory in a package will automatically be flagged as conffiles by this program, so there is no need to list them manually in package.conffiles."
<cjwatson> debian/conffiles never caused files to be installed anyway
<cjwatson> it simply flagged files that had already been installed by some other method
<huayra> hi, does the MOTU mono team have a channel or shall I just ask here?
<huayra> I am working with package of a mono app (iFolder)
<huayra> and will need sponsoring from you guys
<huayra> :)
<huayra> to get it into Karmic
<james_w> hi huayra
<james_w> your best bet is #debian-mono on OFTC
<huayra> if anyone here knows about mono apps package, please point me towards sn.exe
<huayra> I thought debian used to hang @ freenode
<james_w> they used to
<james_w> they moved a few years ago
<huayra> been hanging so long with Ubuntu that I hardly catch debian news anymore...
<huayra> thanks james_w :-)
<huayra> one question though.,
<huayra> We should try to get it into debian first?
<james_w> yup
<james_w> especially for mono packages
<huayra> what if we do it the other way around?
<huayra> I don't believe we will get it into karmic if we do it through debian
<james_w> because those involved with mono in Ubuntu tend to work through Debian
<james_w> so they will just encourage you to do that anyway
<huayra> but, it is possible to do it the other way, isn't it?
<james_w> well, start with talking to them
<huayra> I mean, theoretically?
<james_w> you can work on the packaging with them, get review
<huayra> k
<james_w> and they know how to get it quickly in to karmic if needded
<huayra> thanks
<slytherin> huayra: you can talk with directhex here but I believe he is also part of Debian pkg-mono team.
<Laney> huayra, james_w: It's #debian-cli @ OFTC now, fyi
<james_w> oops, thanks Laney
<Laney> no worries
<slytherin> are the autosyncs stopped currently?
<persia> Might be off for the Alpha2 Freeze.  Ought be running again by the end of the week.
<persia> (and it's only kinda semi-automatic anyway: there's this script the archive-admins run)
<Laney> I replied to that mail, but it got held for moderation as I picked the wrong from address
<slytherin> Laney: which mail?
<Laney> the one where the guy asked about autosync
<slytherin> persia: Can't it be added to a cron job?
<persia> slytherin, I suppose.  It might even be in a cron job sometimes.  I still think that if it's off now, it's because of Alpha 2.
<persia> One of the reasons I believe it not to be in a cron job is that I suspect the script sometimes has errors, and it's useful to have a human check the results.
<slytherin> Right. I thought same but considering that pycaml is in universe I was wondering why universe is frozen for alpha 2
<persia> I don't think the script differentiates.  I also prefer the freezes to be *everywhere* because there are several universe flavours.
<slytherin> hmm
<ivoks> maybe a stupid question...
<ivoks> is there a reason why one package would conflict with it self?
<persia> ivoks, versioned conflicts maybe, as a result of some sequence of package name changes over time.
<ivoks> without version
<ivoks> like this:
<persia> But that would just be cruft.
<ivoks> Package: libopenais3-dev
<ivoks> Conflicts: libopenais3-dev
<ivoks> :)
<persia> No, that's just wrong.
<ivoks> i thought so...
<ivoks> that should've been:
<ivoks> Conflicts: libopenais2-dev
<persia> I suspect there was once a libopenais3-n-dev that (correctly) conflicted with libopenais3-dev, and then the -n- was dropped, but the Conflicts wasn't dropped.
<persia> That would make more sense.
<ivoks> how about conflicting lib-dev and providing lib-dev?
<ivoks> while package is libX-dev
<ivoks> that would make sense if we would like to replace lib-dev with libX-dev, right?
<persia> ivoks, That's permitted, and not uncommon when transitioning from libfoo-dev to libfooN-dev
<ivoks> right...
<persia> But "Conflicts" and "Provides" play funny.  I forget precisely how the overrides work.
<persia> (in other words, do a test install as a dependency of something just to make sure)
<ivoks> right...
<maxb> A package never conflicts with itself, therefore "Provides: foo; Conflicts: foo" ensures that only one package doing that can be installed at a time
<ivoks> yeah, that's normal
<ivoks> this one is conflicting it self :)
<ivoks> anyway, i fixed it
<nhandler> Has anyone ever gotten "internal error: command failed with error code 123" with lintian before?
<joaopinto> hello
<joaopinto> I am using a cdbs debian/rules, and calling dh_desktop from the install/package rule, however my postinst script is empty
<joaopinto> any ideas ?
<soren> What did you expect to be in there?
<joaopinto> I do have the #DEBHELPER# on debian/postinst
<joaopinto> the script calling update-desktop-database
<joaopinto> that was supposed to be inserted by dh_installdeb
<soren> Well, dh_desktop is a no-op these days.
<persia> joaopinto, dh_desktop was replaced by a trigger: man dh_desktop
<soren> What's the package?
<joaopinto> persia, this is a package for jaunty, wasn't that trigger included on karmic ?
<joaopinto> soren, not on the repositories
<soren> joaopinto: That's not what I asked :)
<joaopinto> my man dh_desktop does not metion a triger
<joaopinto> solarion, acetoneiso
<joaopinto> ops, soren
<persia> joaopinto, Yes, in jaunty it still does something.
<joaopinto> this package is for jaunty :\
<joaopinto> I must be missing something
<persia> Are you defining a MIME type in your .desktop file?
<persia> If not, dh_desktop doesn't do anything.
<joaopinto> I know, I am
<joaopinto> MimeType=application/x-iso
<directhex> yay, /me just prepared a new package
<joaopinto> hum reading on some ML mentions that the cdbs gnome class is expected to add the call
<joaopinto> but reading from the example file comments, it should be added by dh_installdeb
<persia> Erm, no.
<persia> dh_desktop is the only bit that adds stuff to the postinst.
<persia> the GNOME CDBS class calls dh_desktop.
<joaopinto> I am calling it on install/package:
<persia> And in your buildlog, is that early enough?  Perhaps you could add "cat debian/foo.postinst" after your dh_desktop call in rules, and check that build log.
<joaopinto> well, it does not change debian/postinst it is expected to change debian/package/DEBIAN/postinst , it does not
<persia> It should change debian/foo.postinst, which then gets copied to DEBIAN/postinst.
<joaopinto> hum ? isn't #DEBHELPER# expected to be ketp untouched ?
<persia> Anyway, `cat` is a great tool to use in rules files to understand the state of the build during the build.
<persia> joaopinto, #DEBHELPER# is used as a placeholder for dh_foo to add stuff at build time.
<persia> (or maybe it does happen in dh_installdeb: now I'm confused)
<joaopinto> persia, right, but isn't that just for the final posinst ?
<joaopinto> it does not make sense it being changed during building, since it works as a build input file
<joaopinto> as far as i understand, the #DEBHELPER# is expected to be replaced only on debian/package/DEBIAN/postinst, not on the original postint
<joaopinto> and it does, it is replaced by an emptry string, and nod the dh_desktop script as expected
<joaopinto> not
<persia> Hrm.  Well, try with DH_VERBOSE, perhaps.
<soren> joaopinto: At the time dh_desktop is called, where exactly is the .desktop file?
<joaopinto> soren, hum, good question
<soren> joaopinto: It needs to be in $tmp/usr/share/applications
<soren> If you're copying it in there at a later stage, that's your problem.
<soren> If dh_desktop doesn't find a .desktop file in there with a MimeType key, it doesn't do anything.
<soren> I'm looking at acetoneiso's SVN, and I don't see a Makefile, so it's a bit for me to guess when it gets installed.
<joaopinto> ok, dh_desktop is beeing called before dh_install that is probably my problem
<joaopinto> solarion, you need to call qmake to get the Makefile
<joaopinto> ops, soren
<soren> I'm looking at the websvn thing, so I'm out of luck.
<persia> Rather, if it doesn't find a .desktop file IN /usr/share/applications.  It ought be a bit more flexible, honestly, but the complaint was that it was running too often, and the corner cases where it doesn't work are often masked by it running several times during an installation run.
<soren> ..but you seem to have identified the problem now.
<joaopinto> now I just need to find the cdbs post-install rule name :P
<soren> persia: Isn't that what I said?
<persia> Hrm.  I should read better.  There's other valid places to put .desktop files to have them show up in the menus, and those don't work correctly.
 * soren wouldn't know
<joaopinto> according to CDBS doc,  install/package should be post-install actions, however it's called before the debhelper specific install rule
<joaopinto> perl -pe 's~#DEBHELPER#~qx{cat debian/acetoneiso.postinst.debhelper}~eg' < debian/postinst > debian/acetoneiso/DEBIAN/postinst
<joaopinto> can anyone translate this to english :P ?
<cjwatson> "read debian/postinst; replace '#DEBHELPER#' string with contents of debian/acetoneiso.postinst.debhelper; write result to debian/acetoneiso/DEBIAN/postinst"
<joaopinto> nice, it worked, just had to move the dh_desktop call to binary-package/app:
<joaopinto> cjwatson, tks
<cjwatson> perhaps you were running dh_desktop and dh_installdeb in the wrong order
<joaopinto> soren and persia, tks, it was the dh_desktop call place
<cjwatson> dh_installdeb must be run after anything that produces autoscript fragments
<joaopinto> I was, because according to the CDBS docs the install/* is a post-install rule, and it's a pre-post-install :P
<joaopinto> the problem was with dh_install being called after dh_desktop
<joaopinto> it's fixed now, tks :)
<joaopinto> is there a page where you can see package versions for multiple debian based distros/repositories ?
<Hobbsee> an output of rmadison?
<Hobbsee> actually, i think there is somewhere
<joaopinto> rmadison only works with a single db, right ?
<cjwatson> depends on what server it's talking to
<cjwatson> we set it up to talk to madison-lite; you can instruct madison-lite to look at whatever archives you want
<cjwatson> all you need is the Packages and Sources files in the appropriate layout
<joaopinto> the db backend is just a Packages/Sources parser, os is it a real db ?
<persia> joaopinto, https://launchpad.net/multidistrotools could help you construct a nice page from multiple distributions, if you like.
<cjwatson> joaopinto: just a Packages/Sources parser with a bit of caching
<cjwatson> persia: mdt was replaced by chdist, wasn't it?
<joaopinto> I am developing a generic apt2sql tool, maybe it would be interesting to have cross debian-derivated distro view
<cjwatson> joaopinto: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/karmic/en/man1/madison-lite.1.html
<persia> cjwatson, Indeed it was: that explains why we lost track of upstream.  Thanks for the pointer.
<persia> wgrant, ^^
<persia> joaopinto, If you're looking for tracking stuff in SQL, you may also find http://wiki.debian.org/UltimateDebianDatabase interesting
<wgrant> persia, cjwatson: That didn't do HTML output, last time I checked.
<joaopinto> ah, so there is such db already
<persia> joaopinto, I'm not sure that UDD has information on the versions for all derivatives, but at least the structure might be useful.
<cjwatson> wgrant: no, but it's reasonably machine-parseable so I'm sure it'd be easy to transform
<cjwatson> wgrant: assuming you mean madison-lite
<wgrant> cjwatson: I meant chdist, actually.
<joaopinto> http://udd.debian.org/schema/udd.html#public.table.packages <- It misses XSBC-Original-Maintainer
<RainCT> Heya
<cjwatson> wgrant: oh, I never used the old mdt so I don't know
<wgrant> It just seems to be a Perl rewrite of the core bits of mdt, minus the fairly long and messy versions2html.
<persia> cjwatson, http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/mdt/main.html is an example of the mdt output.
<joaopinto> I was thinking on a generic table, allowing to associate random fields to a package, to avoid changing a detailed table when a new field is included on the format
<joaopinto> hum, is UDD expected to have public external read access ?
<persia> joaopinto, You can download a snapshot of the DB contents from udd.debian.org (dunno about external public access)
<joaopinto> perl cgis, yuck :P
<joaopinto> i'll continue the apt2sql python script
<ttx> dholbach, ara: finished my packaging training session, posted logs. Should I clean up the "upcoming sessions" area in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training as well ?
<ara> ttx: I can do it, don't worry. Thanks a lot ttx!
<ttx> ara: my pleasure.
<dholbach> thanks ttx, you're a java packaging rockstar!
<dholbach> a general rockstar even
<ttx> dholbach: I prefer that :)
<geser> jpds: I'm thinking about what's the best way to add some cacheing to lp/functions.py (from udt): do it in a class (which I prefer) (and move it to an own file) or do it on module level in functions.py. What's your opinion?
<jpds> geser: Class sounds go, I think Laney wanted to OOP program everything too, go for it :)
<jpds> good*
<Laney> jpds: ref?
<jpds> Laney: Didn't you say you wanted to OOP bits of u-d-t?
<Laney> yeah, I mean what did geser propose?
<RainCT> Laney: < geser> jpds: I'm thinking about what's the best way to add some  cacheing to lp/functions.py (from udt): do it in a class (which  I prefer) (and move it to an own file) or do it on module level  in functions.py. What's your opinion?
<Laney> aha
<geser> Laney: I'm thinking about adding some cacheing to lp/functions.py to not refetch everytime objects from LP
<Laney> yes that's a good idea, and my thought was to encapsulate it in a class
<geser> that was my idea too
<RainCT> btw, does someone know if there are any plans to update libmotif?
<mterry> Is there an easy way to search if any Ubuntu package puts files in a given directory?  packages.u.c only lets me search on filenames, not directory names.
<cjwatson> it lets you search on parts of filenames too, doesn't it?
<cjwatson> or you can use apt-file, or grep the Contents files in the archive directly
<Laney> RainCT: It looks to be QA, so that plan could come from you!
<Laney> although someone did ITA it a while ago
<geser> RainCT: the thread about it on http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/05/msg00656.html is known to you? I've just seen on the PTS page for it that a new version is laying around on mentors.d.n (since nov 2007)
<directhex> oh arses, i wanted to see the java session
<directhex> could have been educational
<mterry> cjwatson: Yeah, parts of filenames, but that doesn't include the directory path.  I'll try your other suggestions.  Thanks!
<persia> directhex, irclogs.ubuntu.com has the log, and the speaker is likely still available to answer questions in #ubuntu-java
<RainCT> Laney, geser: thx
<mterry> cjwatson: apt-file works like a charm
<persia> mterry, Only trick with apt-file is that sometimes either Contents is out of sync, or it's not being generated for a given release.  Be aware of this if you're planning to rely upon it.
<mterry> persia: Sure
<directhex> ttx, one thing i didn't see asked: do java packages get their binary deps tracked automatically? i.e. if i have foo, which build-depends libbar-java, do i need to manually specify the binary dep on libbar-java?
<ttx> directhex: it's not tracked automatically.
<persia> There's some work towards doing that, but it's still in it's infancy.
<persia> (at this point, it's lucky if a given non-libary package can set it's own classpath correctly without a wrapper script)
<ttx> directhex: usually it's up to the Java program to pull the required libs
<ttx> directhex: rather than up to libs to pull potentially-required runtime dependencies
<ttx> but I've seen both approaches in the wild :)
<directhex> ttx, and do you anticipate java 7 bringing any major changes to the field?
<ttx> directhex: I'm not a Java expert, I'm a Java victim. So I don't know.
<directhex> ttx, if nothing else, that statement there earnt you a lol ;)
<ttx> my vague understanding was that they dropped from Java 7 all the work that was kinda going in that direction
<directhex> ...
<directhex> *golf clapping*
<devfil> asac: ping
<directhex> ttx, and java libs don't have anything resembling an ABI version or SONAME, which is why you unversion the package names & simply cross fingers in package deps where versions are concerned?
<asac> devfil: ?
<asac> (contentless ping?)
<ttx> directhex: welcome to my daily nightmare
<directhex> ttx, i don't envy you, from the picture you're painting
<devfil> asac: I'm using swiftweasel right now to test it and it seems to be faster than Ubuntu firefox, the source code contains the patch applied to firefox to enable somethings to make it faster, why Ubuntu firefox package doesn't have these changes?
<ttx> directhex: it's not as bad as it sounds. But it will become more difficult as we add more Java software to Ubuntu
<devfil> asac: there is also http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/18058/
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<asac> now he is gone
<directhex> ttx, well, good luck with it
<devfil> asac: I'm here again :)
<asac> devfil: good. so thats not new and we are working on PGO
<asac> for karmic
<asac> but in general swiftweasel is not really famous for making sane things ;)
<asac> so whatever the answer is, swiftweasel is unlikely to have the answer ;)
<devfil> asac: so in karmic we will have firefox 3.5 (as decided to UDS) + PGO... great! About swiftweasel, it is only an example for "wow, firefox in linux can be faster too :)"
<bddebian> Heya geser
<asac> devfil: most likely we will get PGO with xulrunner 1.9.1 PGOed and if it really helps also ffox 3.5 PGOed (though all bin code is in xul)
<asac> devfil: so swiftweasel does PGOed builds?
<devfil> asac: I don't know how PGO works, in the patch there are only somethings enabled (pipelining), however the about window reports "Swiftweasel version 3.0.10 PGO", so I think yes
<asac> devfil: yeah pipelining is one of the things that are not sane ;)
<asac> but it should really not matter that much anyway
<asac> so i guess its really PGO
<asac> which gives hope that this will give a noticable boost
<asac> though it might be a bit tricky because we cannot PGO firefox ... nistead xulrunner
<devfil> asac: why can't we PGO firefox?
<asac> because firefox does not have many binary bits
<asac> its just 1MB of size (the package)
<asac> but technical details. i have to write a spec about it i guess
<devfil> asac: firefox package is a metapackage, I mean the real firefox source
<asac> devfil: firefox-3.5
<asac> is 1mb and does not have much binaries
<asac> anyway. no need to discuss on these details ;) we are on it.
<devfil> asac: great, thanks :)
<andrew_sayers> Is it considered bad manners to propose a new feature by sending an unprompted merge request?
<persia> andrew_sayers, Depends on the project, really.  Do you have context?
<andrew_sayers> persia: in this case, I proposed adding code to Ubufox that would work around Flash not setting the screensaver...
<persia> Ah.  For that, I'd suggest filing a bug with an attached branch, rather than just a merge request, and asking about it on #ubuntu-mozillateam.
<superm1> ooh i'm curious on this code
<persia> (but I may be incorrect in my understanding of how the mozillateam likes stuff: I just remember hearing about multiple review cycles for some people's first patches)
<superm1> checks when flash is active on a webpage and inhibits the screensaver?
<geser> jpds, Laney: I've commited a singleton for LP API access to trunk: using it makes e.g. calling buildd --help from ~5sec to < 0.1 sec
<andrew_sayers> persia: fair enough, will do.
<andrew_sayers> superm1: currently inhibits when there's Flash anywhere on any open page.
<superm1> cool
<andrew_sayers> Cleverer solutions are worth looking at if the code's actually likely to get used :)
<persia> Personally, I'd be against that.  I often have a page or two with some silly flash ad minimised (or even at the front) when I step away.
<persia> Something that only inhibited for current focus, or similar would be nicer.
<persia> (although I tend to end up with my screen locked in the process of stepping away, so perhaps I'm not the best example user for this use case)
<Laney> geser: cool, that's a good start. Next up is full-on sexy encapsulation
<andrew_sayers> persia: yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the answer was "we'd merge that if it inhibited in X, Y and Z conditions".  I'm mostly looking to see if there's interest right now.
<superm1> i think maybe the better solution is to offer an interface from firefox to cause an inhibit, and then flash should start using said hook
<superm1> since likely the reason it doesnt happen now is that flash is sandboxed from calling out to apps on the system
<RainCT> persia: ever heard about adblock-plus? :)
<persia> superm1, But *when* should flash call that hook?
<superm1> when video playback is active
<andrew_sayers> superm1: Flash could easily inhibit the screensaver if it wanted - it's just a matter of sending a DBus message.  They've had a bug report open for about 6 months now, and no sign of activity.
<persia> RainCT, I don't mind viewing advertisements.  At one point in the past, a significant chunk of my income came from others viewing advertisements.  Sometimes they are even useful to me (albeit rarely).
<superm1> i suppose i dont know flash internals perfectly, but i would think that video playback is some type of standard call
<superm1> can you send a dbus message from a firefox plugin though?
<andrew_sayers> No, but you can run a Python script...
<persia> hrm.  Be nice if that was possible to differentiate.
<superm1> again matter of being able to shell out to the system, or I suppose linking against dbus
<andrew_sayers> If you're really interested, the merge request is at https://code.launchpad.net/~andrew-bugs-launchpad-net/ubufox/flashsaver/+merge/6768
<jpds> geser: Awesome :)
<persia> Could a pbuilder user tell me where I would put pbuilerrc.config?
 * persia digs at docs more, and discovers more pitfalls to bind_mounting /home when fiddling.
<hyperair> persia: ~/.pbuilderrc
<persia> hyperair, Yeah.  I discovered that one, but that's not throwaway.  I'm trying with /etc/pbuilderrc, although I'm unsure if it will work for my use case (playing with qemubuilder).
<hyperair> aah
<hyperair> qemubuilder eh..
<hyperair> it's good for x86 and x86_64, but powerpc... *shudder*
<persia> But in a LVM-hosted schroot, so I don't want to dirty my local area.
<hyperair> O_o
<hyperair> i see
<persia> Speed is not the issue :)
<hyperair> persia: i don't really care about speed either, but setting up qemubuilder for powerpc is hell.
<hyperair> persia: you need the kernel, and you can't apt-get install it without a powerpc machine because you can't chroot into a powerpc installation
<hyperair> ugh
<persia> Well, that's just a matter of wget + dpkg -x.  More annoying is probably that one has to somehow get an Ubuntu build of openhackware (which can't build due to a quirk in Soyuz).
<nixternal> persia: with backports, in this case amarok 2.1, it would require a new package that was separated out of the previous releases, what is the policy if there even is a policy? can you add a *new* package to backports?
<nixternal> and who keeps moving developer documentation to help.ubuntu.com/community?
<nixternal> JontheEchidna: ^^ do you know the process since it seems you are working on it?
<persia> nixternal, I don't know.  Ask one of the backporters.  I think it's discouraged, at least.
<JontheEchidna> I've not actually done one before but I have read to docs and one point last week :P
<JontheEchidna> basically just show that it builds/intalls/runs on the target distro, while attachign a debdiff of the changes
<JontheEchidna> and then one throws it at ScottK :P
<nixternal> JontheEchidna: ya, but the qtscriptengine though, that isn't in jaunty at all
<JontheEchidna> right
<JontheEchidna> It looks like I'll have to rewrite the totally non-backportable packaging for qtscriptgenerator (the official package in karmic)
<JontheEchidna> v.v
<persia> Also, one has to be careful about anything with rdepends.  Dunno if any of the listed ones would break.
<nixternal> fun
<nixternal> JontheEchidna: what about the jaunty builds of it that are in the ppa? you can just use that
<nixternal> ditch the changelog of course ;p
<JontheEchidna> that would be a new package (qtscriptbindings is the name in the package of the ppa)
<nixternal> ya....we might just have to stick with ppa in this case
<JontheEchidna> but amarok upstream really wants 2.1.0 in -backports :(
<JontheEchidna> maybe we could just take the packaging for qtscriptbindings and rename it qtscriptgenerator? :D
<nixternal> people in hell want ice water too
<JontheEchidna> they are the same thing, except for the packaging differences
<persia> Just find a couple backporters, and offer tasty bribes.
<joaopinto> a theorical question
<joaopinto> deb http://pt.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jaunty universe
<joaopinto> is there any convention for the /ubuntu/ part ? should it match the Origin value on the Release field ?
<persia> It's fairly flexible, although it's nice when it carries recognisible branding of some sort.
<persia> (e.g. ports.ubuntu.com uses /ubuntu-ports/ )
<cjwatson> persia: and the reason for *that* is so that a mirror can easily carry both /ubuntu/ and /ubuntu-ports/ if it wants to
<persia> cjwatson, That makes an incredible amount of sense.  Is it normal to do things like that, or would the guideline of following Origin be better?
<cjwatson> persia: I think just something identifying is fine
<joaopinto> there is an odd thing, the ports related archictures are listed on the "ubuntu" root Release file
<joaopinto> despite them not being available on that archive
<joaopinto> I mean http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/jaunty/Release
<joaopinto> I guess main/binary-amd64/Packages , etc should not be listed there
<joaopinto> opd, I mean't armel
<joaopinto> ops
<cjwatson> joaopinto: yes, that's because the split only happens at mirroring time and it can't edit the Release file because it's already signed
<cjwatson> joaopinto: just ignore it
<cjwatson> i.e. the archive publication process just publishes one giant archive, part of which gets mirrored out to /ubuntu/ and part of which gets mirrored out to /ubuntu-ports/
<joaopinto> ok, I am checking for the arch specific Release file availability before trying to import it
<fabrice_sp_> Hi, Is the status of this bug report correct bug #383825 ? I always thought merge rshould be Confirmed, and not In progress..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383825 in texlive-bin "[karmic] libpoppler4 -> libpoppler5 transition" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383825
<fabrice_sp_> not this one
<fabrice_sp_> this one: Bug #385476
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 385476 in inkscape "Merge with Debian" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/385476
<directhex> hm. jcastro?
<binarymutant> if anyone has any free time to spare, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple , needs advocation :P
<joaopinto> cjwatson, is the ubuntu archive managed with reprepro ?
<joaopinto> on my repository reprepro is setting the arch's Release file "Archive:" to the codename of the base Release file, I see that -security and -updates have the "Archive:" set to the "Suite:" name
<persia> joaopinto, It'S not.  It's managed by Launchpad.
<joaopinto> ok, so it's a reprepro issue
<joaopinto> Debian also uses the base suite name as the archive name
<Id2ndR_> Hello. didrocks is here ?
<didrocks> Id2ndR_: yes, I'm here :)
<Id2ndR_> didrocks: great ! That's difficult to be here at same time as you're
<Id2ndR_> didrocks: I think there is something quite easy I'd be able to do with https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/373167
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 373167 in gnome-control-center "After installing Thunderbird, preferred applications shows both "Mozilla Thunderbird" and "Thunderbird"" [Low,Confirmed]
<didrocks> Id2ndR_: timezone rules ;) But I'm always on IRC, so, you can drop a message and I can read it later
<maxb> joaopinto: Have you found anything that actually cares about the content of those architecture Release files?
<Id2ndR_> didrocks: that's true, but this is not very usefull to get answers
<joaopinto> maxb, I am developing such a thing, I care
<maxb> joaopinto: APT doesn't seem to download them.... why does your thing care?
<didrocks> Id2ndR_: (I'm reading)
<joaopinto> maxb, APT does also care, but it only cares about a specific view, your system architecture
<didrocks> Id2ndR_: ok, I'm not sure that it's something we will change now, as we are changing the way "default application" are setted up. So, this will have an impact on this bug
<maxb> joaopinto: I know APT cares about the dists/XXX/Release file - I'm not certain that APT even downloads the dists/XXX/component/binary-arch/Release files
<joaopinto> maxb, well, they are on the archive, if they are not required they should not be there in the first place :P
<maxb> I agree :-)
<joaopinto> either I rely on them, to establish a unique key, or I just ignore them and rely on the base Release file
<LucidFox> @leave
<Id2ndR_> didrocks: Ok so you think that it is nopt usefull to work on this, that's it ?
<didrocks> Id2ndR_: yes, as the way we handle prefered application will change in karmic release
<slytherin> persia: if a package fails to build with openjdk but builds fine with gcj (probably because bug in gcj), should I change build dep or fix the package? I have to yet confirm that there is a bug in GCJ.
<Id2ndR_> didrocks: Ok. I think I haven't do anything since I'm in the programm. So what do you think I shoud work on ?
<persia> slytherin, Hrm?  It's a bug that the package builds?
<maxb> joaopinto: As I said, I'm 99% sure that APT completely ignores them, so you probably should too
<maxb> and what apt uses as "Archive" for the purpose of "release a=foo" policy definitions is the Suite field
<joaopinto> ok, tks
<joaopinto> I will just use (origin, suite, version, architecture)
<slytherin> persia: there is a enum declared which members having non-ascii names. I believe gcj does not yet handle enum type as defined by java 1.5 but rather handles it as defined by 1.4. So it builds with GCJ but fails to build with openjdk because of non-ascii names.
<persia> slytherin, Hrm.  I'm unsure whether that's a bug in gcj or in the 1.5 spec.
<persia> I'd "fix" the package, just to avoid the gcj dependency, but I think it's a suboptimal solution.
<slytherin> persia: ok. is this a unicode letter - Ã¥ ?
<persia> slytherin, 'Q' is a unicode letter, but 'Ã¥' is not an ASCII letter.
<maxb> There are restrictions on characters of allowed enum values beyond those applied to java identifiers in general? Really?
<slytherin> persia: the naming rule for variables is this - an unlimited-length sequence of Unicode letters and digits, beginning with a letter, the dollar sign "$", or the underscore character "_". So I guess a variable starting containing Ã¥ is not correct.
<slytherin> maxb: no separate restrictions for enum. same as variables.
<maxb> That rule relies on the ambiguous definition of "letter"
<persia> slytherin, How is "letter" defined.  I suspect that's vague.  Is 'ã¯' a "letter"?
<maxb> What's the package? I'd like to see what sun java makes of that source
<slytherin> persia: not sure. I am just reading this from standard java tutorial.
<slytherin> maxb: libjaudiotagger-java. I think sun java will also fail to build it.
<persia> slytherin, Right.  That's my point.  THe spec is unclear.  It ought define the set of codepoints that are acceptable as "letter"s.
<persia> I suspect they mean the alphabetic characters with ASCII values between 33 and 89.
 * maxb hunts the JLS
<slytherin> I too think the same. But then I wonder why gcj does not fail on this.
 * slytherin goes to dinner
<maxb> The Java letters include uppercase and lowercase ASCII Latin letters A-Z (\u0041-\u005a), and a-z (\u0061-\u007a), and, for historical reasons, the ASCII underscore (_, or \u005f) and dollar sign ($, or \u0024).
<maxb> slytherin: ^
<persia> gcj is GNU.  GNU eats unicode for breakfast (something about people getting whiny and submitting patches)
<slytherin> maxb: thanks, where did you find that?
<persia> maxb, Ah, great.  Thanks for finding the glossary.  It is a bug in gcj then.
<maxb> JLS3e
<maxb> http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/third_edition/html/lexical.html#3.8
 * slytherin goes for dinner
<slytherin> maxb: that paragraph is also confusing. There is also a statement about allowing programmers to use identifiers in native language.
<maxb> slytherin: what is confusing?
<slytherin> why does it talk about identifiers in native language when they are not allowed.
<maxb> oh, point
<maxb> it says "include" not "is"
<slytherin> anyway i am for now patching the package
<slytherin> got to go. battery low, no electricity.
<maxb> I will figure out the real answer later....
<persia> maxb, When you do, please file a bug against whichever of gcj or openjdk is buggy :)
<geser> Laney: looking at the LP API doc and the canUploadPackage in functions.py (udt): do you think it's sufficient to check the archive_permissions for a person and compare the component of it with the component of a source package instead of iterate over all uploaders?
<Laney> geser: I don't know how that will work for per-package uploaders though
<Laney> but it could be good for shortcutting in the majority of cases
<geser> and use isPackageUploader for the other cases
<Laney> geser: we should try to avoid leaking LP API objects out
<Laney> all calls should go through the wrapper
<geser> isPerPackageUpload is from functions.py
<geser> but I need to rewrite both functions to use the new LpApiWrapper class
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> most of those functions should move inside the wrapper
<geser> I've already started moving some of them to the new wrapper class and marked the old functions as deprecated
<geser> so nothing will break till all scripts are moved to the wrapper class
<geser> (see my latest commits to udt)
<Laney> good stuff
<Laney> so all I worry about is not leaking details of lplib out to clients
<geser> I'll try to do my best to avoid it (but don't on the other hand to write a function just to access an attribute of an LP object in one script in one place)
<RainCT> niice, VoxForge now has enough phonemes to recognize the word Â«computerÂ» :P
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, Why is openais-legacy FTBFS in the Ubuntu-HA repo?
<ivoks> it's not anymore :)
<ivoks> i removed it
<ivoks> there's no need for it in ppa
<ivoks> cause we have it in karmic repository
<ivoks> i've sent pacemaker to ppa, so that it rebuilds with openais-legacy from repository
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, ok cool
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, though the one in the PPA was 20090606
<ivoks> that's 14 days diff
<ivoks> for version that's not being developed, right?
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, yeah but i has a patch on the init script
<ivoks> well, apply it
<ivoks> don't change version of package
<ivoks> only revision
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, here's the changelog: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/193688/
<ivoks> well, ok
<ivoks> once that version gets into debian, we'll sync
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, that would be better then
<ivoks> and rebuild pacemaker
<RoAkSoAx> ok cool
<ivoks> don't worry
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, I just want to be helpful :)
<ivoks> i know ;)
<ivoks> grrrrrrrrrr
<ivoks> it failed to build
<ivoks> why now
<ivoks> ah...
<ivoks> grrrr
<ivoks> init script
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, ohh I remember.. that's why I uploaded the openais-legacy package from Madkiss
<ivoks> yeah :/
<ivoks> i give up for today
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, you gonna fix that package or should I upload openais-legacy again or should I just apply the changes?
<ivoks> go ahead, upload the openais-legacy 20090606
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, ok.
<ivoks> i just did a 24 hours circle
<RoAkSoAx> ivoks, that's awful.. you need to get some sleep
<ivoks> that's true
<ivoks> take care...
<RoAkSoAx> u too
<Nafallo> hmmm
<Nafallo> what's the difference between bzr import and bzr merge-upstream ?
<Nafallo> anyone know by any chance?
<savvas> Nafallo: try #bzr (or #bazaar - I forgot), but have you checked the help messages? bzr import --help; bzr merge-upstream --help
<Nafallo> savvas: yes. didn't help much.
<Nafallo> lifeless: question for you a few (read about 14, including join/parts) lines up :-)
<persia> #bzr is the place to go then.
<persia> (and it's likely too early for lifeless at this hour, although I could be mistaken)
<Nafallo> persia: of course it is. thank god irc is async ;-)
<persia> but someone in the right channel might know now :p
<Nafallo> persia: well. considering both those commands are in plugins... :-)
<Nafallo> (and I don't need to know now. I'll just import as usual ;-))
<Nafallo> AAAAAAAAAAA. silly tarball!
<Nafallo> it removed my tree and added a subdirectory with the name of the program-version.
<Nafallo> thank god I branched it before.
<Nafallo> *FACEPALM*
<jpds> Nafallo: Thanking yourself?
<Nafallo> how am I supposed to use this as orig.tar.gz
<Nafallo> I need to rebuild the damn thing :-(
<Nafallo> ehrm. ignore me. I'm on crack.
<Nafallo> but something else it broken I reckon.
<ausimage> Are there any knowledgeable python packagers available to help with http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6023?
<ausimage> It is python app I am coding and attempting to package for karmic...
<ausimage> I was also attempting to package it in pieces too
<ausimage> and that is where I am stuck perse.... at least the karmic buildd on LP is :/
<ausimage> It is just not finding a file from soovee-common.
<fabrice_sp> ausimage, when I have a problem with this kind of things (splitting a package in several pieces), I build the package from within a schroot, and see what files are created where
<fabrice_sp> I'm just having this issue (files in a wrong place), and I'll build the package in a chroot
<ausimage> k... then I need to learn how to do that I guess :/
<fabrice_sp> it's easy :-)
<fabrice_sp> lt me check the wiki for the page
<ausimage> k
<fabrice_sp> you have a pbuilder installed?
<ausimage> fabrice_sp: that is one item on my punch list
<ausimage> no
<fabrice_sp> oh
<ausimage> the other is that I am being requested to change the name of the package to add 0ubuntu as well as orig to the original tarball
<fabrice_sp> ausimage, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot for dchroot
<fabrice_sp> and you'll find all the tools info here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/UsingDevelopmentReleases
<fabrice_sp> to add 0ubuntu1 to the version, you just have to change the version in debian/changelog
<ausimage> not that... when a I got to build source in order include original I need soovee-0ubuntu.orig.tar.gz....
<fabrice_sp> ?!
<ausimage> not soovee.orig.tar.gz
<fabrice_sp> you need soovee-<version>.orig.tar.gz
<fabrice_sp> you miss the version
<ausimage> the version too yeah
<ausimage> but I have include -0ubuntu in the name too
<fabrice_sp> actually, it's sovee_<version>.orig.tar.gz
<fabrice_sp> with a _ not a -
<ausimage> not here... if I have the the file as you suggest it says it is not there
<fabrice_sp> check your changelog: the version should be the same
<ausimage> the current is soovee_1.07.2
<ausimage> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6023
<ausimage> is the current package
<ausimage> fabrice_sp: I did try without... the -0ubuntu in the original and it would not locate the tarball
<fabrice_sp> the version is wrong
<fabrice_sp> 1.07.2-0ubuntu-1 should be 1.07.2-0ubuntu1
<fabrice_sp> that's why it's requesting you to have -0ubuntu in orig
<fabrice_sp> have to go. Sorry.
<ausimage> duh... guess my brain is not withit to catch that :/
<fabrice_sp> bye
<ausimage> laterz
<geser> does someone with per-package upload rights need sponsoring for sync requests? I assume no
<persia> geser, Ideally they oughtn't, but I'm not sure the archive-admins have a view as to who can upload what.
<persia> (might be handy to have a script that checked a sync bug to see if it was approved, if that's parsable by comments)
<Nafallo> so... who do I need to cuddle for this SRU? ;-)
<joaopinto> can the simple fact that the software contained  package is not working justify justify an SRU that will introduce a new upstream version ?
<persia> joaopinto, Only if a fix can't be backported for some reason.
<joaopinto> why backporting a specific fix instead of doing an upstream upgrade, based on the fact that the current version was never tested/working during the entire development cycle, what is the advantage of using a fix versus new upstream ?
<persia> I don't have a good answer, and have found myself in that position previously.  That's the policy though.
<joaopinto> well, I am not going to spend time that may be wasted on a policiy block, i'll just try to get it fixed for Karmic, since it's still broken there
<persia> Getting it fixed in karmic first is a requirement for SRU anyway.
<joaopinto> ah :\
<rawler> whenever someone's got a minute or two, I've got a package needing sponsoring..
<rawler> just don't really test it for too long.. it's kindof addictive.. :)
<rawler> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6025
<joaopinto> persia, what is the recommended procedure, should I contact the debian maintainer asking for the update on Debian first ?
<joaopinto> this is a python2.6 transition related issue, I am not sure it affects debian at the same extent
<persia> joaopinto, getting an update in Debian always makes it nice because we don't have to care as much.  Depending on how upstream distributes the source, it may even be essential to get it into Debian first.  If that is taking a long time, and you want to pursue the SRU, and there's no worries about the orig.tar.gz, don't let Debian delay you.
<bulletxt> hi, is someone kind enough to package and include AcetoneISO for ubuntu Karmic, it's about 2 years there's a launchpad ticket but no one ever picked it up and do the work
<joaopinto> I already built a package for myself, if no one missed it yet on jaunty I will not care about it, I will try just emailing Debian maintainer first
<joaopinto> it is a minor release upgrade from the debian version perspective
<persia> joaopinto, Right.  It sounds like it's mostly important in terms of being missed in the jaunty update.
<ingenthr> i have a question about packaging for Ubuntu I hope someone can point me in the correct direction on
<ingenthr> it's not immediately for Universe, but may like to get it there some day so I want to do things correctly
<Cry__Baby> hello
<Cry__Baby> what is Karmic Koala ?
<persia> ingenthr, Ask away.  The faster you learn, the faster it can get in, and the more users wil be happy :)
<persia> Cry__Baby, It is the development release of Ubuntu, scheduled to be released as Ubuntu 9.10 in october.
<Cry__Baby> cool
<Cry__Baby> what is the main objective of this channel, and who are the people that visit here?
<ingenthr> persia: thanks; i've looked at the wiki(s) and the debian policies, and what i'm not sure about is what namespace a package should live in... it looks like it should be /opt/${provider} but it could be /usr/local too
<persia> The objective is suitable for debate.  On-topic discussions include packaging, coordination of packages in universe, Ubuntu development discussions, and related topics.
<ingenthr> persia: though it looks as if /usr/local is really for the syadmin if building from source?  the whole thing gets more confusing if looking to the LSB and the LANANA
<persia> ingenthr, For something to be part of the distribution, it should be in neither of those places.  It belongs in /usr
<persia> My personal opinion is that /opt is for non-free software, and /usr/local/ is for special bits added by the sysadmin.
<ingenthr> persia: where in /usr if it's a system daemon?
<ingenthr> persia: i work with the memcached project and some of my colleagues and I have a new project we'd like to get a number of people to be able to easily use
<persia> ingenthr, binaries in /usr/bin, libraries in /usr/lib, resources in /usr/share/${package}, configuration in /etc, state files in /var/lib/${package}, cache in /var/cache/${package}, logs in /var/logs/${package}.
<joaopinto> Cry__Baby, reading the topic also helps :)
<persia> ingenthr, Then get it packaged, and get it distributed :)
<Cry__Baby> joaopinto, true :)
<joaopinto> ingenthr, you might want to look how for a similar daemon already packaged
<ingenthr> joaopinto: true enough...  :)  will do... i'm a bit of a n00b here and trying to follow the docs...
<joaopinto> someone already submited a debdiff for the package I was talking about, bug 368855
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368855 in cherrypy3 "formatwarning() definition from cherrypy3 incompatible with Python 2.6" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368855
<joaopinto> it's one month old, let's hope it will not become one of those left behind until the release
<persia> joaopinto, Is the debdiff good?  Does it fix the problem?  Should I upload it?
<joaopinto> hum, I'll check
<joaopinto> it introduces changes which are not required
<joaopinto> like debhelper version bump
<joaopinto> oh, the debdiff is based on jaunty's version, it was before the synch
<ingenthr> one other question: if you want to create a binary package for different versions, should one build it on the oldest version?
<joaopinto> depending on library changes you may need different build rules/package versions for each ubuntu release
<persia> ingenthr, That's often safest.  Build on the old version, and copy forward.  Distro policy forbids insertion of new packages into old releases though, so one does that starting from now.
<joaopinto> well, that debdiff is not fine, the fix for the python2.6 compability is a one liner, but I still think it's best to go with the new upstream version, I will wait for the debian feedback
<ingenthr> joapinto: my only external dependency is libevent, and i'll certainly test with newer releases
<joaopinto> ingenthr, ok :)
<ingenthr> joapinto: have been building on 8.0.4 to be safe
<persia> joaopinto, Could you comment on the bug detailing how the debdiff isn't fine, and why it's better to wait?  That ought save anyone else from having to investigate.
<lifeless> Nafallo: hi
<lifeless> Nafallo: bzr import is built into bzr
<lifeless> bzr merge-upstream is a bzr-builddeb command and knows about packaging metadata
<joaopinto> that debdiff makes sense if it's aiming for the SRU with a new upstream
<persia> joaopinto, And it has a MOTU-SRU ACK.  Does it belong in jaunty-proposed?
<joaopinto> hum, I have justed in packages.*
<Nafallo> lifeless: hmm. thanks :-).
<Nafallo> lifeless: I reckon my memory is just bad (rather than import having changed)
<joaopinto> persia, it is not available on jaunty-proposed...
<ausimage> K... karmic build is really wierd :S
<persia> joaopinto, Yes, but I can put it there.  I'm distracted by many things, and you have been investigating this, so I'll take your advice, if well argued and well-grounded.
<nhandler> If a file says it is available under the BSD license, what keyword (http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat?action=recall&rev=196#Keywords) should I use? BSD-3 ?
<joaopinto> persia, oh wait, let me test it, I didn't test the build, was just reading the debdiff
<persia> joaopinto, OK.  Let me know.
<ausimage> instead of placing the files in debian prior to packaging... it places them in build... with a lib.linux-i686-2.6 and scripts-2.6 directories
<persia> nhandler, If a file claims to be under the "BSD" license, it isn't.  quote the license.  (all actual BSD-licensed code has the proper BSD license in the code, and is copyright The Regents of the University of California)
<ausimage> hows it know where they end up when they are all lumped like that  :?
<lifeless> Nafallo: you may be thinking of import-dsc
<binarymutant> if somone could review and possibly advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-mbpurple , I would be forever grateful :)
<nhandler> persia: It is a Perl module which says "You may use this module under the terms of the Artistic, GPL, or the BSD licenses."
<persia> nhandler, Hrm.  That's tricky.  Artistic allows that usage.
<Nafallo> lifeless: doesn't look like it I'm afraid. :-)
<Nafallo> lifeless: more likely that I'm getting old ;-)
<joaopinto> persia, it does not build, I have commented on the bug report
<ausimage> I figured it out!!
<ausimage> jaunty use dist-packages and karmic uses site-packages
<ausimage> :/
<persia> joaopinto, Thanks.  I'll unsubscribe the sponsors.  Since it has MOTU-SRU ACK already, if you can fix it (perhaps in collaboration with the patch submitter), it can be done.
<ausimage> in an install file can I use *-packages for that directory?
<ausimage> or is it too big a tool again :/
 * ausimage picks up the tool and attempts to swing it at his package for karmic
<joaopinto> persia, question, a debdiff is expected to be applied over an base source+base bioÃ§d diff right ?
<joaopinto> I believe he just dif a diff between both debian/*, so the debdiff would apply if I used a new upstream orig
<joaopinto> I mean, the patches would apply
 * ausimage does jig in his small space :D
<persia> joaopinto, I don't usually make that much fuss about the format of the supplied debdiff, as long as I can be confident that what I'm producing matches what the submitter had locally.
<persia> joaopinto, You may want to track down kklimonda when next available, and chat about it to resolve any confusion.
<joaopinto> ok
<ausimage> persia is it ok to have install file with.... somedir/*partial/* ?
<persia> ausimage, I think there's likely a more subtle way to do it, but I'm not sure.
<ausimage> this issue with my karmic package is distutils I think....
<ausimage> they changed their destination directory subtly from *dist to *site :/
<lifeless> Nafallo: import-dsc would import a dsc and grab the orig for you, it would output the right paths
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-12
<Andphe> hi, how long can take bzr import-dsc ?
<Andphe> hours ?
<vorian> cody-somerville: nice job on the multiple ppa blog post.
<vorian> it reduced my dput 3mb
<ausimage> vorian: what do you know of conspiracy to modify distutils and break packages that use install files build mulitiple packages :/
 * ausimage think vorian uses python and might have a few answers for him :S
<popey> directhex: dont suppose you can put a space after those urls in comment 3? :) they get added to the end of the url and result in 404s in some crappy environments
<popey> (the end bracket gets added I mean)
<ausimage> any python packages around?
<ausimage> er packager
<StevenK> They don't tend to sit on IRC
<ausimage> :S
<StevenK> Python packages, that is
<ausimage> StevenK: I am looking to get some help with my python package....
<ausimage> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6026
<ausimage> supposedly I seem to find the sledge hammers to make my packages work... I need help to find the right dentle pick instead :)
<ausimage> I would greatly appreciate some advice on best practices for my soovee package
<ScottK> JontheEchidna and  nixternal: New packages are fine for backports.
<Laibsch> Hi
<persia> hey Laibsch
<Laibsch> I have a script that I'm packaging.  On the host it is installed without the x bit for execution
<Laibsch> How do I get the package built with the script being marked as executable?
<persia> Laibsch, To which directory is the script installed?
<Laibsch> /usr/bin
<persia> and it's marked executable in the source package?
<Laibsch> actually, it's not part of orig.tar.gz
<Laibsch> it is marked executable in the unpacked source directory
<persia> Laibsch, Ah.  diff.gz can't represent the executable bit (or masks it, or something).  chmod+x it in rules.
<persia> Er, hrm.  No.  dh_fixperms is supposed to fix that.
<persia> So, make sure you're running dh_fixperms, and if you are, check your logs carefully (DH_VERBOSE might help)
<Laibsch> OK, thank you
<\sh> moins
<fabrice_sp_> moins \sh
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, can I take the shogun merge?
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Yes.  Please.
<fabrice_sp> thanks ;-)
<\sh> zend-framework_1.8.3-0ubuntu1 just uploaded...
<persia> \sh, You know zend.  Do you want to make a call on how to make gaphor work again?
<persia> Should it not depend on zend?
<\sh> gaphor? you mean this http://gaphor.sourceforge.net/ gaphor?
<persia> I do.  It's a package that works about once per three or four Ubuntu releases.
<StevenK> So it's doing better than PHP, then
<persia> Err.  Nevermind.  Ignore that.
<\sh> persia: I'm wondering what gaphor should do with Zend?
 * persia confused "zend" and "zope"
<\sh> hehe...
<\sh> persia: but sounds like it depends on a working zope stack in ubuntu then ... (ajmitch could help here...remembering he did some zope work in the past)
<\sh> StevenK: hmmm? php worked always...(not regarding the quality of php, though)
<persia> \sh, well, some say it should, and some say it shouldn't, and I haven't used it since dapper, so my interest level in making it work is waning.
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> good morning dholbach
<\sh> moins dholbach ... looks like that most .de people are up early ;)
<dholbach> hiya \sh, hey fabrice_sp
<\sh> persia: looks like it only uses zope.component (pre-deps: zope.interface, zope.event)...dunno if we do have them as single package in our archives
<persia> \sh, Don't worry about it.  Maybe ajmitch remembers enough zope.  Maybe someone will write a UML tool that doesn't require nearly so much coddling.
<ajmitch> what are we talking about here?
<\sh> persia: umbrello (kde)
<persia> ajmitch, That gaphor worked in hoary, dapper, and gutsy, and it might be nice to make it work for karmic.
<persia> But that making it work requires untangling the relationship to zope, messing with python transitions, etc.
<ajmitch> persia: OK, I can't say I've really heard of it :)
<ajmitch> sounds like a bundle of fun
<persia> Yeah.  Packages that only rarely work don't tend to be so popular :)
<ajmitch> what's its current state of breakage?
<persia> I used it in hoary, breezy (until it broke), and dapper, and found it useful then, but there may be better alternatives now.
<persia> Last I knew it was having issues with python versions related to zope, and having discussions as to whether the zope bits belonged how they were.
<ajmitch> I'm installing it now & it has a dependency on zope3
<ajmitch> which is interesting :)
<persia> (there's a few bugs that explain the situation in more detail, but I can't say I've been great about the bugmail for the past year or so)
<\sh> ajmitch: as said...it needs zope.component
<persia> And it installs some zope extensions, I think.
<\sh> (as stated on the homepage and hopefully with the correct infos)
 * ajmitch sees no mention of zope on the new homepage
<ajmitch> just that it'll fetch dependencies as needed when you install with setuptools
<\sh> ajmitch: http://gaphor.devjavu.com/wiki/Tech last headline
<ajmitch> well the version in karmic at least loads for me
<persia> Cool!  I wouldn't have expected it to work, given some of the comments in some of the bugs in late jaunty timeframe.
<ajmitch> It should be updated to the latest version at least
<persia> The person in Debian who has been trying not to maintain it for the past while tends to be good about doing stuff, but probably wouldn't complain if someone else wanted to take it over.
<ajmitch> I doubt I'd use it enough to want to take over maintenance
<persia> That seems to be a general consensus :)
<ajmitch> it's a pity that zope eggs aren't packaged separately in debian at the moment for this
<\sh> directhex: good post about mono...congrats
<ScottK> directhex: I'm a little curious about the 100 times faster than Python comment though?
 * persia assumed that was in the "some workloads" category, in the same way that shell scripts are faster than C for some workloads.
<persia> (without any specific intended mapping as to which language would be C and which would be shell scripts)
<ScottK> Yes, it was 'some'.
<ScottK> I'm curious about the circumstances where that would pertain.
<dholbach> persia, geser, soren, jpds, nhandler, nixternal: who of you is around? :)
 * persia is about 50% present
<dholbach> that's a good start :)
<dholbach> geser, soren, jpds, nhandler, nixternal: anybody else? :-)
<slytherin> what is the poll about?
<persia> slytherin, We have a meeting in about 4 minutes.
<slytherin> in #ubuntu-meeting?
<nixternal> yo yo
<dholbach> hey nixternal!
<slytherin> Is it MOTU meeting or MC meating?
<dholbach> MC
 * dholbach hugs nixternal and persia
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> I just finished watching a movie :)
<dholbach> perfect fit then :)
 * dholbach tries texting soren
<soren> I'm here.
<soren> Just now.
<soren> :)
<dholbach> awesome
<\sh> nixternal: kmail was always crashing since kde3 times...so it's kdes crap not kubuntus or opensuses...I should write something on your blog ;)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> I had a long drawn up response, but I went with the more PC/CoC friendly version with humor and sarcasm :)
<\sh> nixternal: that's exactly what I did this morning when I read jriddells post about the kde hire of C. ;) I thought I appoint you for that position ;)
<nixternal> you and everyone else...I want to know more about it
<nixternal> not going to waste time if it is more x, opengl type stuff that I have 0 clue about
<\sh> nixternal: imho more the ubuntu one client for kde?
<nixternal> if it is general kde love, then I am down, but I think someone has it out for me anyways ;)
<\sh> s/kde/qt+kde/
<nixternal> they already have someone working on it I thought
<\sh> nixternal: regarding online services
<nixternal> I was looking through the server/cloud computing thing but it seems it is more server than anything, and my cloud experience is all with storage anyways
<nixternal> don't know if i really want to develop any more on the cloud, but i won't say no :)
<enyc> security updates in universe -- how does tnis work?   debian have patched their 'nsd' pacakge.... but this hasn't filtered through into ubuntu -- whats' going on?   is somebody supposed to post a bug?  does something happen automatically to notify tha maintaner that hasn't happened?
<\sh> nixternal: money money money...must be funny...in the rich man's world ;)
<nixternal> I have 0 money
<nixternal> been jobless since february, the job market here sucks, but I did just get an offer
<nixternal> Microsoft!
<enyc> please will someboy point me in the right directon ??
<\sh> enyc: file a bug with the CVE, eventually add the patch from debian to the report, add debians bug report to it, and provide a debdiff , please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures :)
<\sh> nixternal: why not MS? They soled 200Mio SLES licenses ,-)
<\sh> s/soled/sold/
<nixternal> MS is the largest distributor and support of Linux based solutions too
<directhex> nixternal, you've been running windows for ages haven't you? :p
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> actually no
<nixternal> I haven't run windows since around 1998
<\sh> "MS wants YOU ! Go get the job, Cowboy"
<vorian> i'd love a job like that, if it didn't have a crazy contract
 * vorian is content, however, to run a farm store
<persia> vorian, The nice thing about your job is that it doesn't occupy the same part of your brain as this stuff :)
<\sh> there is always a crazy contract..."your salary is XXXX Cents, for 40h per week, and all overtime, too"
<vorian> persia: exactly!
<e-jat> nixternal: go go go MS go :)
<e-jat> opsss my bad ..
<geser> dholbach: sorry, totally forgot about the meeting :(
<dholbach> geser: no worries - you're only half an hour late
<al-maisan> Good morning, how does one add annotations to the entries in https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html#updated ?
<al-maisan> I have merged the fbreader package and added a LP bug (request for sponsorship) and would like to make that fact known by annotating the fbreader entry in the list
<\sh> al-maisan: at the end of the line the cursor changes into an "textinput" cursor...just click there...and add your text
<al-maisan> \sh: "at the end of the line" of what ..?
<dholbach> al-maisan: just click or doubleclick on a field in the comment column
<\sh> al-maisan: on merges.ubuntu.com -> you'll find the package fbreader on the list...you move your mouse to the right side (comment column)
<dholbach> it's not directly obvious if you're looking at the page :)
<dholbach> looks like it's read-only :)
<al-maisan> ah, OK, thanks!
<\sh> thekorn: ping what do you think of that snippet instead of the old working Config()._get() methods in leonov?
<\sh> thekorn: having all sort of configuration stuff as class attributes (<section>_<option> syntax)
<thekorn> \sh, sorry, but which snippet?
<\sh> thekorn: sorry...forgot the link: http://paste.ubuntu.com/194112/
 * \sh needs a coffee...tea is not enough this morning
<thekorn> \sh, I personaly don't like this syntax, why not just using the get method of the ConfigParser()
<thekorn> \sh, what about discussing this in good old #leonov ?
<\sh> thekorn: right :)
<nixternal> it is going on 03:00 here, still need to take the garbage out and get to bed...I am bushed
<dholbach> porthose, nxvl: do you know about e-jat's mentoring request?
<e-jat> or should i resubmit ?
<iulian> dholbach: Thanks for looking at ndoc.  This patch should apply cleanly now: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/27810993/debdiff
<dholbach> iulian: cool, I'll take a look later on
<iulian> dholbach: OK, thanks.
<jpds> dholbach: Eeek, missed it by a few minutes.
<dholbach> jpds: no worries, it's all good
<andrew_sayers> #ubuntu-mozillateam
 * andrew_sayers can't type today
<LucidFox> I'm updating a package in Ubuntu that's orphaned in Debian - would it make sense to make it lintian-clean?
<persia> LucidFox, Not really, but it might make sense to do a Debian QA team upload that was (and the QA team is nearly always happy to have help)
<slytherin> LucidFox: it would make sense if you plan to push the package to Debian soon.
<james_w> oops
<james_w> forgot to comment on nellery's application, glad that he made it anyway :-)
<soc> hi
<soc> does anyone have an idea, when texlive will be updated?
<soc> version 2007 is still in the repos, but version 2008 is available since september 2008 ... i guess we could update to texlive 2009 now ...
<Laney> soc:  you should contact the debian tex maintainers
<soc> mh ok
<soc> so it's their decision if we will get a newer version?
<persia> soc, Rather, it's our decison, and we defer to their greater expertise.
<Laney> I would imagine that this update has some fiddly bits that require intimate familiarity with the package, and that group is where you will find this familiarity.
<Laney> So unless someone on the MOTU team either knows the package well or is willing to put the work in to figure it out then we're going to get the update from Debian
<Hew> what's the best way to update a generated .patch from merges.ubuntu.com?
<slytherin> Hew: what are you trying to do exactly?
<Hew> slytherin: merge transmission, which requires the changelog to be updated. I could do it manually but that seems messy and I'll probably make an invalid diff anyway. https://merges.ubuntu.com/t/transmission/transmission_1.71-1ubuntu1.patch
<Hew> bug 384215
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384215 in transmission "Please upgrade to transmission 1.71" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384215
<slytherin> Hew: did you try 'grab-merge transmission'?
<Hew> slytherin: That sounds like a useful command, I'll give it a go! Thanks :-)
<slytherin> Hew: The command is available on jaunty in ubuntu-dev-tools package.
<Hew> slytherin: Already have it, it seems to be getting things now
<Hew> slytherin: It has given me a warning after downloading everything - "It looks like this package is maintained in revision control"
<slytherin> Hew: that is fine, it gives that warning when debian/control file has VCS-* fields.
<dholbach> iulian: uploaded
<slytherin> Does anyone know how well evolution-mapi works in jaunty?
<directhex> slytherin, not at all IME
<slytherin> directhex: So I think it is time to try it. :-D
<slytherin> And file loads of bugs if possible. :-P
<directhex> slytherin, PPA? i had a look upstream, most bugs were of a "fixed in latest release" form
<slytherin> directhex: I will first try the plugin and then check at the bug supstream.
<Hew> slytherin: I think I have finished with the transmission merge! I now have a .diff.gz, .dsc, and .changes files. Which should I attach to the merge bug report?
<iulian> dholbach: Thank you.
<mok0> What targets are being called when dpkg-buildpackage builds a package?
<mok0> Can't get that indep build to work properly.
<soren> mok0: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianrules
<mok0> soren: ah thanks for the ref
<soren> mok0: Sure :)
<mok0> rainct!
<RainCT> Hey mok0
<mok0> hi
<Laney> rawr
<mok0> soren, am I right in saying that the primary entry point into debian/rules is binary-arch for the -B flag, binary-indep for the -A flag and binary for the -b flag?
<mok0> soren: and that the other "required" targets are not used explicitly?
<soren> mok0: dpkg-buildpackage runs "debian/rules clean" first.
<mok0> soren: right, ok
<mok0> soren, hm, dpkg-buildpackage calls rules/build: after clean
<persia> It calls clean, build, binary|binary-arch|binary-indep depending on how it's called.
<mok0> persia: that's why most packages build both arch and indep always
<mok0> persia: I am trying to achieve that the -B and -A flags actually *work*
<mok0> persia: which they do when I have an empty build: target
<persia> mok0, It's supposed to be depending on which of binary, binary-arch, or binary-indep is called, but yeah, not every package is so nice about it.
<slytherin> Hew: add debdiff between debian version and ubuntu version
<mok0> persia: when this package builds the -indep documentation package, all it needs to do is to run doxygen, I don't need it to do configure make and all that
 * mok0 suspects many packages are doing it wrong because the dh_make templates are screwy
<persia> mok0, Then don't have binary-indep depend on build
<mok0> persia: err, no, because then it will go ahead and do the arch preparations
<persia> mok0, That's only an implementation issue with dpkg-buildpackage: not a problem with the package.
<mok0> persia: hm ok :-)
<persia> quoting from policy "Both binary-* targets should depend on the build target, or on the appropriate build-arch or build-indep target, if provided, so that the package is built if it has not been already"
<persia> So, you would provide a build that depended on build-arch and build-indep, but binary-indep would only depend on build-indep (which wouldn't do anything).
<persia> If dpkg-buildpackage doesn'T work like this, consider filing a bug.
<mok0> persia: lemme check...
<mok0> -A calls build, binary-indep
<mok0> -B calls build, binary-arch
<mok0> -b calls build, binary
<mok0> clean first of course in all 3 cases
<persia> Well, read policy carefully.  I believe it's permitted to have build do nothing.
<mok0> persia: i can recast it so build-indep does nothing
<mok0> eerrr no
 * mok0 thinks policy and dpkg-buildpackage don't match up
<mok0> persia: quoting from policy: "For some packages, notably ones where the same source tree is compiled in different ways to produce two binary packages, the build target does not make much sense.  For these packages it is good enough to provide two (or more) targets (build-a and build-b or whatever) for each of the ways of building the package, and a build target that does nothing"
<persia> mok0, build-indep should run doxygen, and binary-indep should package the results of that run.
<mok0> persia: yes, that's what it's doing now
<persia> Right.  That's the bit that makes me think you can have an empty build: if you do build-arch and build-indep, and set the right dependencies for binary-arch and binary-indep.
<mok0> persia: then that's clarified. So I am in fact correct in saying that the dh_make templates are screwy
<mok0> persia: because that template splits up arch and indep, but not fully
<mok0> persia: it will always build at least one target twice
<persia> Indeed.  I'm of the opinion that the archive would be a better place if dh_make didn't exist.
<mok0> heh yeah
<soren> mok0: Yes, that's what I said: "dpkg-buildpackage runs "debian/rules clean" *first*." (emphasis added after the fact)
<Hew> Is a 4.2MB debdiff too large? If so, would a 0.8MB debdiff.gz be more appropriate?
<slytherin> Hew: yes it is too large. What is the command you used for debdiff?
<geser> what's inside the debdiff that it's so big?
<Hew> it's a merge debdiff between transmission 1.61-2ubuntu1 and 1.71-1ubuntu1
<Hew> the debdiff for the ubuntu changes only is fine
<Hew> Should I just leave a comment saying "debdiff available if required"?
<Laney> just do a diff over 1.71-1
<Hew> Thanks, will do.
<slytherin> Hew: we need debdiff between debian version and ubuntu version, not between two ubuntu versions
<slytherin> Hew: When you provide debdiff, someone will take Debian version apply the debdiff to it to create Ubuntu version.
<Hew> slytherin: I have done that also. The wiki page says to do two.
<slytherin> Hew: The wiki needs update. :-)
<Hew> slytherin: I have attached that one now at bug 384215
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384215 in transmission "Please upgrade to transmission 1.71" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384215
<Hew> slytherin: Well I was following this which was otherwise quite helpful :-) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<persia> slytherin, The bit about the ubuntu->ubuntu debdiff was added in a later edit: the rationale being that it was apparently easier to track that someone was maintaining Ubuntu variance correctly.  It fails miserably for new upstreams.
<slytherin> persia: right. Usually I trust people to keep changelog in sync with what they actually updated, specifically in case of merges.
<slytherin> Hew: Now you have to wait till someone form core team sponsors it. :-)
<Hew> slytherin: Yep! I eagerly await a reply :-)
<persia> slytherin, Usually I generate the ubuntu -> ubuntu myself, if I want it.  I feel that those seeking sponsoring should only attach sufficeint material for the sponsor to regerate the candidate package as it existed on the sponosoree's disk.
<persia> At one point, the docs requested posting of build logs!
<slytherin> I know, I have been through that. :-)
<gaspa> slytherin: hi. remember about w3c-stuff-package, please! :)
<gaspa> (just a reminder ;) )
<slytherin> gaspa: Sure. Will definitely today.
<trip0-nb> what's the best way to create a src package to upload to launchpad's ppa, with files that aren't code.  ie, theme files
<slytherin> trip0-nb: take a look at existing theme packages.
<persia> trip0-nb, u.com/MOTU/School/PackagingWithoutCompiling
<vorian> persia: may I please join the uninverse sponosrs?
<persia> vorian, Welcome back!
<vorian> I promise i will look at things that start with letters other than 'k' too :)
<binarymutant> ah is revu down?  :(
<vorian> thanks :)
<binarymutant> anyone know when revu will be operational again?
<trip0-nb> i've just uploaded a package to launchpad and it was rejected
<trip0-nb> how do I increment the package version?
<binarymutant> trip0-nb, for a ppa?
<trip0-nb> is there some sort of debuild switch
<trip0-nb> yes, for ppa
<binarymutant> trip0-nb, you could always use `dch -i` but I'm not sure if the version really matters on a ppa
<gaspa> binarymutant: yes, it matters.
<gaspa> must be increasing.
<gaspa> ie: after uploading 1.2.3-4 you must upload something with a greater revision number
<binarymutant> gaspa, I thought you could put anything on a ppa, like -0ubuntu1 or -20091105, etc
<gaspa> yes, you could.
<gaspa> but _after_  -0ubuntu1 you have to upload for example -0ubuntu2, -1 or 0ubuntu2something...
<trip0-nb> okay, trying that...
<vorian> you can, but if you upload 20091105 you would need to up it to 20091105.1 or something on the next upload
<trip0-nb> if the dist in the changefile is karmic, can I still expect jaunty to be built?
<binarymutant> trip0-nb, You can still install it on jaunty if that's what you mean
<binarymutant> I miss revu :(
<jacob> could anyone point me towards a tutorial/example on packaging a library?
<binarymutant> jacob, what kind of lib? like a python one?
<jacob> binarymutant: C/GTK. it's gtksourcecompletion
<binarymutant> jacob, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Packaging%20Shared%20Libraries
<jacob> binarymutant: I saw that, but it ends rather abruptly when explaining symbols
<binarymutant> jacob, did you see the IRC classroom session too?
<jacob> binarymutant: no, actually, though i just found the link :-!
<binarymutant> jacob, how about this one: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<jacob> binarymutant: ooh, that one looks good
<jacob> thanks
<binarymutant> its old though so be careful :)
 * DBO pokes directhex 
<DBO> where can I get one of those banshee t-shirts? the XL is way big on me and I want an L
<AnAnt> Hello, what tool do you use to log IRC channels ?
<binarymutant> is anyone else having problems with http://revu.ubuntuwire.org/ ?
<MTecknology> Why does network-manager depend on update-notifier-common.....
<MTecknology> makes no[n, ]sense
<AnAnt> LP 255844
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255844 in network-manager "nm 0.7 fails to install if update-notifier is not installed" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255844
<AnAnt> MTecknology: so, postinst of update-notifier needs to call a binary in update-notifier-common
<AnAnt>   * dont restart NetworkManager in postinst, but use restart-notifier to
<AnAnt>     ask users for reboot
<AnAnt> that's from the changelog of network-manager
<AnAnt> and restart-notifier is in update-notifier-command
<AnAnt> s/-command/-common
<MTecknology> AnAnt: so the dependency will be removed?
<AnAnt> ?!
<AnAnt> how did you understand it that way ?
<MTecknology> sorry, I'm tired
<MTecknology> I read it again
<MTecknology> thanks
<AnAnt> no problem
<savvas> hm..
<savvas> I recently installed the game package cuyo and the .sh scripts have an entry (and set to default) to open with it
<savvas> really weird
<nhandler> StevenK: You don't work for TMobile, do you?
<pan1nx> hhi
<pan1nx> how do I announce a new updated package?
<pan1nx> for the MOTU?
<Ampelbein> pan1nx: what is it you are trying to do? have you packaged a new upstream version and want it to go in karmic?
<fabrice_sp_> binarymutant, you can use irclogs.ubuntu.com
<fabrice_sp_> sorry, it was AnAnt
<asomething> Any one know where to find the list of packages in Universe but not in Debian? I know I've seen something like that before, but can't remember where...
<JontheEchidna> asomething: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/universe.html
<asomething> JontheEchidna, thanks!
<pan1nx> yes Ampelbein. bug #383499
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383499 in kflickr "[needs-packaging] kflickr-kde4" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383499
<Ampelbein> pan1nx: just attach the diff.gz of the version you would like to have sponsored and subscribe the sponsors team.
<pan1nx> The diff is there
<pan1nx> in the bug report
<pan1nx> I subscribed the ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug, Ampelbein
<pan1nx> Ampelbein, is there anything else I should announce? like a list?
<Ampelbein> pan1nx: you linked to a diff to your ppa-version. this will not be accepted in the archives. you should create a package ready to get into the archives and attach the diff.gz of that package.
<fabrice_sp_> pan1nx, you should put it as confirmed, and unassign yourself
<fabrice_sp_> and give a link to download the orig tarball
<pan1nx> Ampelbein, how do I create a package rady to get into archives? I have the bzr of the debian directory linked to the bug, the DEB that is build in the PPA, the diff between the new version and the Ubuntu version... I don't understand, please help...
<fabrice_sp_> pan1nx, see my previous comment
<Ampelbein> pan1nx: kflickr (20081222-0ubuntu1~ppa1) is the topmost version of your bzr branch
<Ampelbein> pan1nx: is there no newer tarball available than 0.9.1?
<pan1nx> fabrice_sp_ will do that as soon as i get clear Ampelbein
<pan1nx> Ampelbein, yes, I will give the link to the tarbal. But again, why is that needed if I have added the watch file. uscan answers the question :D
<Ampelbein> pan1nx: the point is that 20081222 is no good version.
<pan1nx> Ampelbei, that is what the upstream calls it...
<azeem> sanitize
<azeem> it
<azeem> e.g. by calling it 0.0.20081222-0ubuntu1~ppa1
<azeem> or 0.0~20081222-0ubuntu1~ppa1
<pan1nx> ok, the previous was 0.9.1
<pan1nx> so, azeem, should I sanitize it by calling it 0.9.2~20081222-0ubuntu1~ppa1
<azeem> 0.9.1+20081222-0ubuntu1~ppa1 looks better to me
<azeem> not sure which one is preferred, really
<ivoks> is it svn on top of 0.9.2 or 0.9.1?
<ivoks> 0.9.1+20081222
<pan1nx> no svn
<pan1nx> ivoks, it is just a change in versioning (by just making the date instead of a version number)
<ivoks> so, upstream changed versioning?
<pan1nx> yes, ivoks
<pan1nx> i think what azeem said,  0.9.1+20081222-0ubuntu1~ppa1, looks quite good
<Ampelbein> pan1nx: without the ~ppa1 for the official repositories
<pan1nx> ok, Ampelbein, azeem and ivoks, thanks for the help! I pushed all the changes, the archives, the sanitized version and added the link to the orig.tar.gz to the bugreport. Removed myself and confirmed the bug. Thanks for you help!
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious-plugins/+bug/383307
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383307 in audacious-plugins "Please merge audacious-plugins 2.0.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<dupondje> this should be accepted asap :) audacious is already in the repo's, but its not working with the plugins :(
<Nyquist333> Are there any developers working with GRUB 2 and USB support?
<pan1nx> today is a REVU day?
<james_w> why 404 in 404main?
<jacob> is it okay to be using .install files in library packaging to split the main library and -dev packages? or is there a more "proper" way of doing things
<RainCT> jacob: it's the most common way, afaik. Installing everything into debian/tmp and then using .install files to put the files where they are supposed to go
<jacob> RainCT: okay, cool. also.. is cdbs frowned upon in this situation? (working fine so far)
<RainCT> jacob: Why should it be? :)
<jacob> RainCT: not sure, all of the examples i've seen have just been using debhelper
<jacob> anyway, thanks :)
<RainCT> jacob: well, then write an example with CDBS ;)
<jacob> heh heh
<directhex> jacob, cdbs is frowned upon because it is evil personified, compared to the purity and light of dh!
<superm1> why?
<superm1> they're both easy to use
<ajmitch> cdbs is more of a black box
<superm1> it's open source, just poorly documented
<ajmitch> and slightly hard to read at times :)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-13
<bdrung_> does someone have time to sponsor the merge request in bug #383307? audacious was sponsored, but without the audacious-plugins it is useless.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383307 in audacious-plugins "Please merge audacious-plugins 2.0.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383307
<binarymutant> still no revu ;(
<directhex> popey, been having fun on certain IRC channels i see
 * directhex wonders if he's going to be moaned about on the podcast again
<binarymutant> does anyone know if the hashlib module for python errors silently or if it will print any problems?
<directhex> Ng, has your "curiosity" about certain IRC channels been fulfilled?
<james_w> nellery: congratulations
<nellery> james_w: thank you :)
<james_w> sorry I didn't leave a comment on your application, I wasn't expecting the meeting to be so soon
<nellery> james_w: no problem at all
<directhex> congratulations? nellery is the new BDFL?
<nellery> could a u-u-s admin add me to the team?
<ajmitch> nellery: I guess I can remove my copy of things I was looking at sponsoring for you :)
<ajmitch> & welcome to the MOTU team
<nellery> ajmitch: thanks :)
<directhex> i for one welcome our new nellery overlords
<nellery> hehe thanks directhex
<ajmitch> directhex: get him hooked on mono drugs!
<vorian> any java experts awake?
<nellery> directhex: did you see linuxhaters reply to your mono post?
<jmarsden> I have a package bibletime 2.0-1 that was synced from Debian into Karmic, rmadison shows it is there... but I just downloaded the Karmic Alpha2 CD and using Add/Remove programs it finds only a much older 1.6.5 package... is this expected behaviour?  sudo apt-get -s install bibletime   finds bibletime 2.0-1 -- why are the two install tools inconsistent, and does this indicate anything I should change in my package so th
<jmarsden> at it will show up in Add/Remove Programs?
<j-dizzle> d'oh. stupid dput.cf
<StevenK> jmarsden: Did you update in Add/Remove Programs? If so, perhaps the mirror your using is out of date.
<jmarsden> I did, and I'm using whatever the default mirror is... I was deliberately emulating a user who doesn't know how to edit /etc/apt/sources.list :)
<jmarsden> Also, does Add/Remove programs use a different pacakge database than apt-get ??
<jmarsden> Same issue with xiphos, another package recently synced into Karmic... it is visible to apt-get but not to Add/Remove Programs.
<StevenK> jmarsden: That's odd.
<StevenK> jmarsden: I'm not sure if it uses a different database to apt
<jmarsden> OK, thanks.  I usually just use apt-get from the shell; I'll look at what Add/Remove Programs really does :)
<Hew> Hi MOTUs. I'm having a look at merging revelation, and I'm trying to work out if I can drop dependencies on python-gnome2-extras and python-gnome2-desktop as they are not in the latest Debian version. I've had a look at the Debian and Ubuntu changelogs, but still can't work out what's going on.
<Hew> -extras should have been dropped in the version Ubuntu has now, according to the Debian changelog and debian bug 485298
<ubottu> Debian bug 485298 in revelation "Useless dependency on python-gnome2-extras" [Unknown,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/485298
<Hew> and -desktop seems to be an Ubuntu change that has been around for years, but I'm not sure why
<fabrice_sp> Hew, in the changelog: depend on python-gnome2-desktop (>= 2.15.0) to be able to import
<fabrice_sp>         gnomeapplet.Applet
<fabrice_sp> in version 0.4.7-4ubuntu1
<fabrice_sp> when looking for why a change has been done, the changelog is your friend :-)
<Hew> fabrice_sp: Yes I saw that, it's quite old and I'm not sure what that means. gnomeapplet.Applet is no longer mentioned in the recent changelogs, so I'm wondering if the Ubuntu-specific change is still required?
<Hew> perhaps the gnomeapplet.Applet change no longer applies, and the dependency is just leftover?
<lifeless> Hew: just test it - remove python-gnome2-desktop and check it still works
<lifeless> Hew: what makes you think gnomeapplet.Applet is a change?
<fabrice_sp> Debian bug #377362 is mentioned. Did you had a look? (just ot see what's failing)
<ubottu> Debian bug 377362 in revelation "revelation: FTBFS: IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/share/pygtk/2.0/defs/applet.defs'" [Serious,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/377362
<fabrice_sp> a FTBFS, so lifeless is right: drop the dependecy, and build it
<fabrice_sp> s/dependecy/dependency/
<lifeless> [and run it after building, to be sure]
<fabrice_sp> right :-D
<Hew> thanks fabrice_sp, lifeless, will do :-)
<fabrice_sp> ;-)
<Hew> any ideas about python-gnome2-extras? I'm not sure why it's in revelation 0.4.11-3.1 as debian bug 485298 seems to say it isn't
<ubottu> Debian bug 485298 in revelation "Useless dependency on python-gnome2-extras" [Unknown,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/485298
<fabrice_sp> Hew, it's a build dependency?
<fabrice_sp> if so, the same as before
<fabrice_sp> yeah: the bug you mention speak about a FTBFS, so the same as before
<Hew> fabrice_sp: it's a normal Depends, but I'm not sure why it's there in the current Ubuntu version
<Hew> the -4 changelog says it was removed in -3.1, which Ubuntu already has
<fabrice_sp> wrong merge, perhaps?
<Hew> yea I dunno, I'll just drop it and see what happens :-)
<fabrice_sp> I found a bug report in Jaunty that is worth a SRU (a Fail To Install), but is not yet fixed in Karmic. I have a debdif fixing this bug for Karmic and closing this bug report. is it ok? Or should I already create the SRU data?
<lifeless> Once you have it fixed in karmic, nominate for jaunty and do the sru process
<lifeless> I wouldn't close the bug report without starting the SRU process otherwise it could get lost
<fabrice_sp> ok. I'll nominate it for Jaunty, then, before attaching my debdiff
<fabrice_sp> wouah: in Karmic, we still have 57 packages that rdepends on python2.5
<fabrice_sp> (just found 2 looking at ttp://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ )
<wlx> Is there any problem with revu.ubuntuwire.org? I can not visit the site.
<popey> directhex: fun?! :)
<popey> directhex: I stayed out of that on the podcast because I am not anti-mono and didnt want to get into a lengthy heated debate about it
<AnAnt> is that about uupc ?
<AnAnt> oh, you're Alan
<AnAnt> Hello, I'm maintaining fsplib
<AnAnt> and upstream used to support two build systems: autoconf & scons
<AnAnt> now he released a version that removes autoconf support
<AnAnt> so, should I re-add the autoconf support in debian packaging, or should I use scons ?
<AnAnt> the problem with scons so far is that I cannot build shared libs with it
<AnAnt> only static lib
<AnAnt> seems that upstream didn't add necessary config options in the scons config files for shared libs
<jmarsden> AnAnt: Probably better to patch the scons config stuff and feed that patch back upstream
<AnAnt> ok, I hope I know how to do that
<jmarsden> If not, you can enjoy learning more about it :) :)
<jmarsden> http://www.scons.org/doc/HTML/scons-user/c593.html#AEN641   may help with the basics?  (I'm not an scons user, that's from Googling)
<AnAnt> ok, I was able to add shared library support easily
<AnAnt> the problem is that it build libfsp.so instead of building libfsp.so.0.0.0 then symlinking libfsp.so to it
<loic-m> I need to check if some libraries are GPL2 or GPL2+ - is there any way to do it from command line short of apt-get the source? apt-cache show doesn't give me any license information.
<azeem> loic-m: packages.ubuntu.com has copyright files extracted
<loic-m> azeem: yeah, it just happen my internet is slow at the moment
<loic-m> and my computer slows to a crawl too, so the web browser is more than slugish
<azeem> I don't think there is another way
<azeem> maybe some have package tags with the license, not sure
<AnAnt> does a shared library have to be in this form: lib<name>.so.<number> ?
<AnAnt> with a lib<name>.so symlink'ed to it ?
<Madkiss> good morning folks
<Laney> loic-m: look in /usr/share/doc/package
<azeem> AnAnt: basically
<azeem> note that the lib<name>.so goes into the -dev package
<AnAnt> ok
<loic-m> azeem, Laney, thanks
<AnAnt> thanks, fixed it
<AnAnt> *.la are static libs right ?
<Madkiss> yes
<Madkiss> ("file" on the file will tell you :))
<lifeless> actually
<lifeless> .la are libtool medatafiles
<lifeless> *metadata*
<lifeless> they can reference static or dynamic libraries, or even both
<Madkiss> oops.
<AnAnt> are they necessary in a library package file ?
<Madkiss> they go to the -dev-package
<lifeless> I think the overall consensus is to not package them
<AnAnt> ok
<lifeless> because often on linux they are more a problem than anything else
<lifeless> if there is no package-config file though, a .la can be essential.
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> how can I create that .la file?
<Madkiss> lifeless: So this is one of the major differences betweendebian and ubuntu?
<lifeless> if one isn't being made, the library doesn't use libtool and you definitely don't want a .la file
<lifeless> Madkiss: no, no difference here.
<lifeless> Madkiss: its not locked in stone in Ubuntu or Debian, and opinions still vary. There are upstream[libtool] bugs about this.
<AnAnt> lifeless: the problem is that upstream switched from autoconf to scons
<AnAnt> lifeless: previously .la was built, but with scons, I dunno how to build that
<Madkiss> lifeless: I could have sworn the policy manual says something about it
<Madkiss> lifeless: but obviously you are right. nevermind, then :)
<directhex> popey, well, "fun". it's nice to feel vindicated!
<AnAnt> Hello
<nellery> any u-u-s admins around?
<AnAnt> Hello, is there a DD here ?'
<jpds> AnAnt: Some, but you're better off just asking your question and people will help if they can.
<AnAnt> jpds: looking for someone to sponsor an updated package I've done for Debian
<jpds> AnAnt: So, try asking #debian-mentors on OFTC.
<AnAnt> ok
<binarymutant> anyone know when revu will be back online?
<geser> binarymutant: probably not before Monday when siretart gets time to look at it
<binarymutant> thanks for filling me in geser :)
<ebroder> Any motu-sru types around? I'm looking for advice on bug #371581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371581 in erlang "erlang-base conflicts with old erlang-doc-html" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371581
<xnox> Any motu wants to sponsor a small fix in karmic? bug #386138
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386138 in gmsh "FTBFS: Gcc4.4 missing includes classic fail" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386138
<xnox> ls
<directhex> Desktop Documents PDF Photos Pictures Podcasts Projects Public Templates Videos
 * ebroder wonders how well that scales...
<ebroder> sudo cat /etc/shadow :-P
<azeem> directhex: I bet you realized after "Podcasts" in which channel you are and that the CoC applies
<directhex> azeem, "Photos", duh!
<azeem> Photos is before Podcasts
<azeem> anyway, let's move on
<directhex> so, how about that weather, huh?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-14
<robinp1> Can someone help me with an issue with dh_installdirs: basically i want to create dirs to install into but it doesn't seem to work: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m427d0b8a
<ebroder> robinp1: I don't think that's the variable name. It's probably more like DEB_DH_INSTALL_DIRS_ARGS or something
<ebroder> Alternatively, just create a debian/$package.dirs file with one directory per line and kill the DEB_INSTALL_DIRS_ALL line
<ebroder> Oh, never mind - if that's the output than that must be the correct argument
<ebroder> I'd still use the .dirs file, though
<robinp1> ebroder: ok, ill give it a go but I have a feeling I tried that already without any luck ...
<robinp1> I already have a file called mdnsresponder-daemon.dirs with two lines usr/sbin and
<robinp1> debian/tmp/usr/sbin in it!
<robinp1> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m3c073002 <- thats my control file
<robinp1> is it possible to override rule fragments in upstream Makefiles with cdbs ?
<xnox> vorian: thanks a lot for the upload =D!!!!
<xnox> my first ever direct upload to ubuntu
<vorian> who are you!
<vorian> :P
<xnox> bug #386138
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386138 in gmsh "FTBFS: Gcc4.4 missing includes classic fail" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386138
<vorian> ah
<vorian> yeah!
<xnox> cheers anyway =D
<vorian> no, great fix
<vorian> my flippin pbuilder hooks are all messed up somehow
<xnox> I will forward this to Debian ;-)
<vorian> great! thanks very much
<vorian> please link your upstream bug to the LP bug
<xnox> in the past I had trouble with hooks and sometimes the faster dependency resolution via gdebi also results in FTBFS.
<xnox> Ok I'll link it.
<vorian> thank you :)
<xnox> vorian: i've filed bug report in lp on the 6th, but debian maintainers commited a fix to their svn on the 8th =``((( Should have cross-submit to them straight away
<vorian> xnox: it's unreleased at this point.  keep an eye on it, once it's released by debian, request a sync
<xnox> vorian: fair enough. I've subscribed to bug-mail. I'll go try to find something else to work on.
<vorian> awesome
<Technoviking> What is the best way to setup postfix on a laptop, if I have to install it for pbuilder?
<Hobbsee> errrr, i'd first look at why you have to install it for pbuilder, and figure out if ssmtp / msmtp will suffice.
<Technoviking> Hobbsee: pbuilder wants it not me:) seems like an odd dependecy
<Hobbsee> Technoviking: what are you building?
<Hobbsee> and, er, why do you need to set it up at all, for pbuilder?
<lifeless> fakemail or something
<Hobbsee> lifeless: that's what i was thinking
<lifeless> Hobbsee: I think its devscripts not pbuidler
<lifeless> offhand
<Technoviking> sudo apt-get install pbuilder told me postfix was an required package
<lifeless> yes, I understand that
<Hobbsee> oh, i see
<lifeless> but its not pbuilder
<lifeless> its something pbuilder depends on
<Hobbsee> yeah, it'll be devscripts
<lifeless> Technoviking: are you sure it said required and not recommended?
<Technoviking> was required
<jmarsden> Maybe try    sudo apt-get install pbuilder --no-install-recommends
<Technoviking> installed automatically, but I was able to remove it after the fact.
<lifeless> then it was a recommends
<Technoviking> lifeless: ok sorry
<Technoviking> when a patch is not longer needed for a package (fixed upstream), how do I remove the patch with the debian dir properly
<RAOF> Technoviking: Depends on the patch system.
<RAOF> With simple-patch-sys, you just delete the patch from debian/patches.
<RAOF> With quilt or dpatch, you also need to remove the reference to the patch from debian/patches/series or debian/patches/00list, respectively.
<Technoviking> RAOF: did that, do I need to run debuild again to generate a new .dsc file?
<RAOF> Yes, you'll need to generate a new source package.
<RAOF> debuild will do that.
<robinp1> how can I get the installed JDK dir for a debian/rules Makefile ?
<geser> set/export JAVA_HOME. it's top of my head so better look how the existing java packages do it
<dyfet> The java tools, javac, java, etc, are all symlinked through /etc/alternatives to the ones in the bin dir of the active jvm
<dyfet> geser: That by itself does not tell you where to place built java binaries though...just how to run the tools...
<dyfet> geser, robinp1: debian/ubuntu java policy currently suggests generic compiled jars are to be installed in /usr/share/java as per http://wiki.debian.org/Java/Draft and native jni libs in libdir/jni.
<dstansby> Hi guys
<dstansby> Hi guys :)
<dstansby> Just wondering if anyone can help me with something
<dstansby> I'm trying to build cheese, but I get this error message:
<dstansby> debian/rules:6: /usr/share/gnome-pkg-tools/1/rules/gnome-get-source.mk: No such file or directory
<dstansby> make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/share/gnome-pkg-tools/1/rules/gnome-get-source.mk'.  Stop.
<dstansby> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 2
<dstansby> debuild: fatal error at line 1334:
<dstansby> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -us -uc -S failed
<nhandler> dstansby: Install gnome-pkg-tools
<dstansby> nhandler: thanks for that, it worked :D
<nhandler> Glad to hear that dstansby
<Laney> Does Required-Start do anything in LSB headers? I'm trying to fix a problem with mediatomb where it launches from its init script before the network interfaces are up
<Laney> it's currently set to $all, which from my understanding should be making it come up last
<james_w> Laney: it's currently still done based on the symlinks as far as I know
<Laney> alright
 * Laney moves to 99, maybe that will help
<RainCT> Any plans to update hildon-thumbnail? (Karmic has 2.0, Debian has version 3)
<RainCT> (and there's an even newer version in Maemo's repo)
<RainCT> I can do the update myself but I'm not familiar with any hildon stuff so checking to be sure we want the new version :)
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious-plugins/+bug/383307
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383307 in audacious-plugins "Please merge audacious-plugins 2.0.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<dupondje> please somebody accept it, audacious 2.0.1 is already in Karmic, but can't be installed without the plugins :(
<dyfet> the package depends on the plugins?  not just a recommends, a required?
<dupondje> +Package: audacious
<dupondje> +Architecture: any
<dupondje> +Depends: ${shlibs:Depends},
<dupondje> +         audacious-plugins (>= 1.9),
<dyfet> dupondje: Reading the audacious site, at least some plugins are not supported by the same upstream...but can it do anything useful with any entirely free formats without plugins?  that is not clear from the site...
<dupondje> how u mean ?
<dyfet> dupondje: I mean, if it can be used, even without all codecs and features, without audacious-plugins installed, then I do not think it should be a required dependency, especially if the plugins contain restricted codecs.  But that is my impression.
<dupondje> output is also a plugin
<dupondje> so alsa etc is a plugin
<dupondje> kinda needed ;)
<dyfet> Okay :)...It was not clear from the site whether that was true :)
<dupondje> should be accepted imo :)
<dyfet> though in any case, if audacious has been merged from debian, then yes, I would expect the audacious-plugins to be merged also...
<ryanakca> I have a package in Debian NEW. If it doesn't get processed in Debian by DebianImportFreeze, will it still be possible to get it sync'd into Ubuntu, assuming it isn't too far past the import freeze?
<sebner> ryanakca: without problems
<ryanakca> sebner: Great, thanks :)
<sebner> unless it breaks something :P
<ryanakca> sebner: Haha, only thing that depends on it is Kobby, which I'm hoping to get uploaded to NEW sometime this week :)
<sebner> kk
<geser> ryanakca: at DIF only the automatic import stops, between DIF and FF you need to file a sync request to get a package synced
<ryanakca> geser: *nod*, that isn't a problem :)
<porthose> sebner: would you mind if I did the lat merge/sync?
<directhex> porthose, if it needs merging, can you see if there's a good reason for it (i.e. can we update it in debian then sync?)
<porthose> directhex: ok let me look at it closer, from just glancing at it, it looks like a sync anyway
<directhex> yay for syncs
<porthose> directhex: in lat upstream Depends on mono-devel (>=2.0.1), and mono-devel-2.0.1 is waiting on MoM to be merged/synced sooo I think I will wait on doing lat until mono-devel is done that way we should be able to just sync lat  ;-)
<directhex> porthose, mono will be synced as soon as requestsync believes that 2.4+dfsg-4 is current
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-14
<psusi> can anyone help me understand WTF is going on in this bzr history?  it says merge and lists "1.1.10 upstream" and "3.1.8 squeeze" as where the merge was pulled from, but clicking either link does't seem to take me to another branch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/lvm2/maverick/revision/46
<psusi> can someone give me a run down on what dh_makeshlibs is for, and why it would bail out because the new upstream sources have new functions in the lib?
<ScottK> psusi: What's the exact error with dh_makshlibs?
<psusi> ScottK, I forget now... it seemed to complain about there being new symbols in the library, and printed a diff... so like the man page said, I applied the diff after stripping the -1ubuntu1 version from the base version of the new symbols
<ScottK> OK.  That's why it raised the error.  Also if there were any missing symbols you need to consider a soname change.
<psusi> now i'm trying to figure out the cause of this:
<psusi> dh_install --sourcedir=debian/build/install-deb-cluster
<psusi> cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp/sbin/clvmd': No such file or directory
<psusi> dh_install: cp -a debian/tmp/sbin/clvmd debian/clvm//sbin/ returned exit code 1
<psusi> naw, it was only + lines, no -, so I just added the new symbols to the .symbols file
<psusi> but what is this file for?
<ScottK> That's something that should have been built by the package
<psusi> there is no tmp directory under debian/
 * psusi beats the lvm2 package with a rubber hose
<psusi> ohh, clvmd is under debian/build/install-deb-cluster/usr/sbin
<psusi> what the hell... why is it complaining with: cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp/sbin/clvmd': No such file or directory
<psusi> when it is invoked as: dh_install --sourcedir=debian/build/install-deb-cluster
<ScottK> Is there a .install file?
<psusi> yea, there is a clmv.install
<psusi> err, clvmd.install rather
<ScottK> I'm not sure which path will take precedence.
<psusi> clvm.install lists sbin/clvmd.. and apparently debian/rules invokes dh_install --srcdir=debian/build/install-deb-cluster... and there is a debian/build/install-deb-cluster/sbin... oh shit
<psusi> the actual file is under usr, but it's looking in /sbin not /usr/sbin
<psusi> thank god, finally got the sob to build
<dholbach> good morning
<abogani2> to you
<nperry-work> Hello world, I would like to maintain the openbox package.
<nperry-work> I've read all the packaging guidlines
<dholbach> nperry-work: just start the work on the package and propose changes for sponsorship
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Upstream/Adopt might be interesting too because it contains information about how to work together with Debian and upstream
<nperry-work> That was one of my questions, Is it my choice if i prefer to get source from upstream rather then debian
<ScottK> nperry-work: It is, but it's strongly encouraged to work with Debian.
<ScottK> If you aren't, people who consider to sponsor your work will want to know why not.
<tumbleweed> if there are problems with the package in debian, it makes sense to fix them there
<didrocks> directhex: hey, do you think it would be hard to add to your ubuntuone music store banshee plugin something similar to rhythmbox's one? (that is to say, detect if you don't have mp3 support installed, and if so, don't show the store right now but a "download codec" button?)
<directhex> didrocks, i don't see why not, i assume that's something that can be queried from gstreamer
<didrocks> directhex: I don't have enough knowledge right now on mono (didn't touch cs for 7 years :)), are you interested (and have time :-)) to work on that? Otherwise, I'll try. It will just be longer :)
<directhex> didrocks, i don't have a huge amount of time to work on it. IME the hard part is knowing your way around the banshee code base (i.e. knowing which bits to poke where), and #banshee are pretty responsive
<didrocks> directhex: ok, understood. I'll try to have a shot there :)
<directhex> didrocks, the addin is only, like, a dozen lines of actual code. the rest is autogenerated c#, and trying to get bindings integrated into libu1's autofoo build system
<didrocks> directhex: yeah, seeing that. The hardest part is to the extension and banshee base classes documentation. Seems poor :/
<micahg> mr_pouit: is the xubuntu team planning on backporting Xfce 4.8 to Lucid?
<azop> micahg: Is 4.8 even released yet?
<mr_pouit> micahg: it's not released, and will probably be delayed of several months
<mr_pouit> there are already some 4.7.x packages in the xubuntu-dev ppa though
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, I've been having trouble w/xfce4-power-manager and was hoping for the hal-less version at some point :)
<micahg> mr_pouit: so it might not even make maverick?
<mr_pouit> micahg: well, the hal-less version in the ppa has some permission troubles with somethingkit (policykit maybe), so it's not better ;P
<mr_pouit> micahg: I don't think so
<micahg> wow, 3 releases on the same desktop version, I'm not getting my cutting edge addiction filled here :)
<micahg> mr_pouit: if I can narrow down the case that I'm having an issue with, I'll file some bugs
<dupondje> alot of merges open ... :(
<arand> git-buildpackage makes a _amd64.changes but I would like a _source.changes for uploading to PPA and not only building for amd, is that possible with git-buildpackage directly?
<tumbleweed> arand: never used git-buildpackage, but does it take -S ?
<arand> tumbleweed: Yea, figured it takes all arguments debuild takes, just -S -sa worked great :)
<nperry-work> How do i grab the source of a package from debian unstable?
<tumbleweed> nperry-work: packages.qa.debian.org/$srcpackage will have links to the dsc
<tumbleweed> otherwise you can check it out with UDD
<nperry-work> UDD?
<tumbleweed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation
<nperry-work> Thanks, theres a wiki page for everything :)
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: atlas eventually built
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, you succeeded to build it with qemu?
<tumbleweed> yes
<fabrice_sp> or you are speaking about the sse3/i386 mess?
<fabrice_sp> oh ok
<tumbleweed> yeah, some buildd maintainer input would be useful on that one
<tumbleweed> but you can probably replace the failure with an "echo hi buildd maintainer: this build takes a *long* time please wait a few days before killing me" :)
<fabrice_sp> or I can upload it, and ping some buildd admin if it spends more than 40 hours
<fabrice_sp> yeah :-)
<fabrice_sp> how long did he take?
<tumbleweed> hard to say because of intervening segfaults
<nperry-work> Hmm, bzr working for anyone? getting bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
<fabrice_sp> ok
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: maybe on the order of 10 hours
<fabrice_sp> ok: I'll upload it then, adding a mention in the changelog that it took 40 hours in Debian
<fabrice_sp> also, I've been able to build the package in i386, by desactivating the sse3 package
<maxb> nperry-work: The pull-debian-source command may also interest you
 * abogani2 waves
<abogani2> Anyone could help me to drop a package?
<geser> drop?
<sebner> nperry-work: pull-debian-source $PACKAGE
<sebner> huhu geser :D
<geser> Hi sebner :)
<abogani2> Ok rephrase: What is the right way to ask removing of a package?
<micahg> abogani2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Removing Packages
<geser> abogani2: file a bug with a rationale why it should get removed and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<abogani2> micahg, geser : Thanks.
<dupondje> Is there a way to get MOTU myself to get merges/syncs done ? :)
<micahg> dupondje: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#MOTU
<dupondje> Any idea if I could make a chance ? :P
<geser> dupondje: looking at your LP page, you contribute enough to get Ubuntu membership and you're on track for MOTU
<shadeslayer> geser: btw can we change the source package name?
<shadeslayer> like the original tarball name?
<shadeslayer> will change from qt-creator-2.0.0-rc1-src to qtcreator_2.0.0~rc1
<shadeslayer> ( which is in archives )
<shadeslayer> hey anyone around to help me with qtcreator?
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: and what's the problem?
<BlackZ> but I'd wait for a new upstream release to do that
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: first of all ive never seen a include folder in debian/ ( what is the purpose of it? ) and then this : http://pastebin.com/zmk1kUVB
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: they do have a new release,RC1
<NorthernLights> Hello all
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: so do that mentioning in the debian/changelog file
<shadeslayer> also the packaged version has bug 592786
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 592786 in qtcreator (Ubuntu) "qtcreator crashes on start in maverick" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/592786
<shadeslayer> which i reported,i might be able to fix that with RC1 so im trying :D
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: so try to fix the bug too and put that too in the debian/changelog file
<BlackZ> (are you the maintainer of that package?)
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: yes but idk what the debian/include does :P
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: no
<NorthernLights> I'm doing my selfish advertisement for a package i uploaded to REVU. It's called KillRogues!, it's a python application for find and disconnecting rogue machines off a network. The REVU link is: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/killrogues
<NorthernLights> If someone had the time to check it that would be great. Thanks.
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: ive mentioned it in the changelog but when i build the package after removing a patch that was applied upstream i get those build failures
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: you have to remove the patch in a debian/patches file too
<BlackZ> tipically called 00list or series
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: removed there too
<BlackZ> but, why are you removing an upstream patch?
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: its not a upstream patch,the patch was applied upstream
<shadeslayer> like in the original source
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: yeah, and why are you removing it? is there a good reason?
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: wow... didnt i just say... it was applied to the source by qtcreator devs,we dont need it anymore :P
<shadeslayer> hold on ill paste the error with the patches applied
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: so are you part of the upstream development?
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: no,but debuild said the patch was already applied and it fails to apply it
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: what's the patch name?
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: http://pastebin.com/N98QUQnJ
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: .kubuntu_02_qtgui_includes.diff
<BlackZ> trying to get it
<shadeslayer> im still wondering what debian/includes do
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: it simply includes for additionally files (sorry for the late answer)
<BlackZ> -for
<shadeslayer> :)
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: anyway to update them headers?
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: which headers?
<shadeslayer> the ones in debian/include?
<shadeslayer> it seems that they are causing the issue
<shadeslayer> ( moc has changed too much )
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: are you saying the headers are the problem for the debuild?
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: i think so,they need to be updated
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: I don't think they're the problem
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: hmm.. ok any other ideas?
<shadeslayer> i really think its a problem with those files...
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: I'm able to build it and I've seen the patch, it seems OK
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: uh.. are you building beta 1 or rc 1?
<shadeslayer> because the errors are with rc1
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: the version in maverick (the beta1), I haven't the time for try with the rc1, maybe tomorrow
<shadeslayer> :)
<BlackZ> however, the most probably reason is that the files are changed in the source
<shadeslayer> yes
<shadeslayer> the private headers
<BlackZ> so the patch is no longer needed
<BlackZ> or a new patch is needed based on the source of the program
<BlackZ> no, I don't think the problem are the haders, but I will try to build it tomorrow
<BlackZ> s/haders/headers
<shadeslayer> sure :)
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: BTW you could try to ping Riddell
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: any particular thing?
<shadeslayer> you need to get across?
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: or do i just say that you wanted to talk?
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: no, but he's in the ubuntu KDE team and he could give you an hand
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: ah righty... im talking to lex79 as well in #kubuntu-devel ;)
<shadeslayer> he thinks its the old headers too... so im downloading qt4-x11 to freshen up the headers and re build
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: any idea if we can use some other script which invokes qmake-qt4 instead of include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/qmake.mk
<shadeslayer> which seems to be invoking qmake-qt3
<fabrice_sp> BlackZ, about bug 588519
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588519 in steam (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] on i368 with "xslt.c:(.text+0x1bb4): undefined reference to `__stack_chk_fail_local'"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588519
<dobey> can i poke someone to review a REVU upload?
<fabrice_sp> BlackZ, did you see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags ?
<fabrice_sp> dobey, paste the revu link. Someone may bite
<geser> fabrice_sp: what do you propose to fix this bug?
<dobey> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mocker
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: yeah and I suggested one, but geser was not sure about my solution for fix that
<dobey> it's a very trivial python package :)
<fabrice_sp> geser, last time I had this error, I added -fno-stack-protector to CFLAGS
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: that's what I suggested :)
<fabrice_sp> TBH, I don't understand the fix, so I don't know what to do with it :-)
<geser> fabrice_sp: this is always a solution, but as this disables the stack protection I prefer to do this only as a last resort (or if it clear that the right fix e.g. something not linking to libc)
<geser> fabrice_sp: the problem is that steam builds on AMD64 fine (with stack protection) but fails on others (like i386)
<fabrice_sp> geser, yeah, I know. And why does the proposed change fix the issue? This is what I don't understand
<geser> I don't know why it builds on one and fails on other
<fabrice_sp> different compilation options?
 * fabrice_sp is having this 'builds on amd64 and fails wit i386' with atlas
<geser> don't know, and why do it only affects linking
<fabrice_sp> maybe stack protection works differetnly on amd64 than i386?
<fabrice_sp> kees seems to be the Compilation flags guru. Did you try to speak with him?
<geser> I tried but he didn't had an idea either
<fabrice_sp> pff
<fabrice_sp> I'll sponsor it, and see what happens then
<geser> I guess a gcc guru is needed here too. I didn't try to ask doko about this yet
<fabrice_sp> by the way, does the same happens in Debian?
 * fabrice_sp remembers compialtion options being differetn there
<geser> don't know. Does Debian have stack protection enabled?
<kees> Debian doesn't enable stack protector by default, no.
<fabrice_sp> dobey, if it's a python package, you can try with Debian first: they are very active and very friendly :-)
<fabrice_sp> so it does not happen the smae there, then
<geser> it might also be caused by the combination of eglibc and gcc version Ubuntu uses. I remeber FTBFS in lucid that didn't affect Debian yet as that eglibc version was only in experimental
<dobey> fabrice_sp: right. i think we'll only do that though, when we start getting our things that depend on it into debian. i think right now we just want to have it in universe.
<fabrice_sp> dobey, by eperience, I would say it's quicker to get your package in Ubuntu through Debinan than revu :-)
<fabrice_sp> s/debinan/Debian/
<ScottK> dobey: This is particularly true for Python stuff done through the Python packaging teams.
<NorthernLights> dobey: i added a simple comment.
<ajmitch> morning
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<fabrice_sp> evening ajmitch
<NorthernLights> fabrice_sp: i had 2 packages into Debian after waiting for months to get someone check it on REVU. Once i decided to go for Debian it took me like 1-2 weeks to get it done
<NorthernLights> that was 1-2 years ago so
<NorthernLights> i'm now retrying the ubuntu way to see how it goes
<fabrice_sp> NorthernLights, it's still the case for python packages
<ajmitch> it'll probably still be slow
<fabrice_sp> if you find a team for your package, it will be quite quick
<fabrice_sp> in Debian, I mean
<ajmitch> given the length of the queue on REVU, packages that are just silently uploaded are likely to sit there
<NorthernLights> Right
<NorthernLights> Debian team was nice to me (although very picky on package "problems" :))
<fabrice_sp> yes, just like m.d.o
<NorthernLights> python team i meant
<fabrice_sp> so we are :-)
<ajmitch> that's expected :)
<dobey> ajmitch: what is not "silently uploaded" ?
<NorthernLights> aha
<dobey> ajmitch: poking people in the face? :)
<ajmitch> dobey: that helps :)
<ajmitch> though for many packages I think debian is still preferable, though I can understand why people don't want to try & maintain in both
<NorthernLights> thing with Debian is I find the process old-looking
<dobey> well, i'm not a DD, and only have PPU for a few packages in ubuntu
<dobey> so eh. but there are other reasons i only want this package in ubuntu right now :)
<kees> geser, fabrice_sp: I'm poking at steam now while waiting for a USN to publish.  :)
<ajmitch> dobey: so it's a case of finding sponsors for both
<ajmitch> yeah I understand, work pressures & all :)
<fabrice_sp> kees, cool. Thanks!
<dobey> not so much
<ajmitch> DPMT are usually helpful & quick
<dobey> mostly upstream pressures :)
 * ajmitch wishes he could copy & paste properly into virtualbox
 * NorthernLights can do it quite well!
<ajmitch> across computers, with x2x :)
<micahg> ajmitch: why not?
<hyperair> synergy!
<ajmitch> micahg: dunno, I don't dig into the mysteries of the X clipboard
<micahg> ajmitch: I think it WFM
<NorthernLights> yeah, synergy server on xp to ubuntu synergy client to maverick ubuntu guest works for me
<ajmitch> I just want to be able to copy a .dsc from firefox on one machine into a terminal on a sid vm on my laptop
<micahg> ajmitch: do you have the virtualbox addons installed
<ajmitch> yes
<micahg> ajmitch: oh, a file, use a share
<NorthernLights> oh i get it; yep, would be great
<ajmitch> not a file, just the URL
<NorthernLights> i sometimes find myself trying unconsciounessly too
<micahg> ajmitch: that should work
<NorthernLights> yep
<ajmitch> sure, it should
<fabrice_sp> dobey, your watch file does not work
<micahg> ajmitch: is seamless integration on?
 * ajmitch just wants to look at this mocker package from dobey in sid
<hyperair> afaik the clipboard integration doesn't require seamless integration to be turned on
<ajmitch> micahg: no, debian is in a window with the additions installed
<kees> geser, fabrice_sp: source/libxslt/Makefile.in  s/LD/CC/ in the libxslt.so rule seems to fix it.
<dobey> fabrice_sp: ah i see why. thanks
<kees> fabrice_sp: er, no, I take that back, one moment
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> the proposed fix is s/ld -E/gcc/ in sources/configure
<geser> kees: sounds similar to the fix from bug 588519. Do you have an idea why?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588519 in steam (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] on i368 with "xslt.c:(.text+0x1bb4): undefined reference to `__stack_chk_fail_local'"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588519
<kees> fabrice_sp: yeah, that's correct
<NorthernLights> I know I already asked but since there's nice people checking a python package... mine is http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/killrogues
<fabrice_sp> geser, this is what I was typing :-)
<kees> geser: gcc is doing something smarter than what ld does.  trying to uncover the root cause now
<kees> geser: this is starting to get too far down into compiler fun.  gcc calls collect2 instead of ld in that invocation, but it seems to DTRT.
<kees> I will add a note to the CompilerFlags wiki page about ld vs gcc
<geser> kees: is it safe to replace "ldd -E -shared" with "gcc -shared"? I don't know enough about linking to know what -E exactly does and therefore was hesitant to sponsor this.
<fabrice_sp> so di I :-)
<kees> geser: based on what I seein the resulting ELF files, it looks correct.
<kees> -E controls how much is being exported, and since the build does finish and links correctly in the end, it looks like gcc -shared is DTRT
<kees> hmm, though steam-lib ships a .so.  let me double-check
<fabrice_sp> dobey, you should the packaging bug in your changelog
<fabrice_sp> close
 * fabrice_sp should go to bed :-/
<dobey> is there one? :)
<NorthernLights> Is it just me or is there a lot of french people in the Debian project?
<fabrice_sp> dobey, maybe there should have one?
 * fabrice_sp doesn't remember if the policy request to have a bug report
<dobey> ah there is one
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<geser> kees: I guess you don't have an idea why this FTBFS is architecture specific, right? What does ld on AMD64 (or armel) different from ld on i386 (or powerpc) that it once works and fails in the other case.
<kees> geser: i think it's related to how the archs expose "hidden" symbols; amd64 is very explicit, so it manages to find the symbol without extra help.
<NorthernLights> dobey: clem@frle-0207-virt:~/temp/mocker-0.10.1+r54$ uscan
<NorthernLights> mocker: remote site does not even have current version
<dobey> fabrice_sp: i've fixed both of those issues now.
<dobey> NorthernLights: already fixed
<NorthernLights> oops yes i just saw it
<fabrice_sp> dobey, ok. I'll have a deeper look tomorrow morning
<dobey> fabrice_sp: ok, thanks :)
<fabrice_sp> good night all
<kees> geser: it looks like steam isn't passing CFLAGS into the configure either.
<NorthernLights> dobey, i it still tells me the same
<kees> source/libxslt seems to unconditionally reset CFLAGS to -O3 :(
<dobey> NorthernLights: eh?
<dobey> bother, why is it doing that
<NorthernLights> or maybe the previoius package was still in my browser's cache
 * NorthernLights is tired
<dobey> no
<dobey> it's saying that for me too
<dobey> but i don't know why
<dobey> oh
<dobey> because it's a snapshot, not a release
<NorthernLights> dobey, your version is 0.10.1+r54 but launchpad only has 0.10.1
<NorthernLights> yep
<dobey> yes
<ajmitch> so it is still active upstream? :)
<dobey> mildly, yes
<ajmitch> 2 commits in 2 years, I guess that just means it's stable enough
<dobey> yeah, though i plan on poking upstream a bit more soon :)
 * NorthernLights is going to bed
<NorthernLights> see you
<dupondje> An own wiki, do we name it with my nick or real name ?
<dupondje> wiki-page :)
<hyperair> up to you
<hyperair> i named my wiki page hyperair
<geser> don't know if it's written down somewhere but all the application mails I just checked used real name
<hyperair> geser: really?
 * micahg used his nick
 * micahg hasn't applied yet though (on the list for tonight :) )
<ScottK> hyperair and dupondje: The wiki name is listed in your LP profile.  One is proposed if you don't have one.
<geser> hyperair: yes, you are one of two exception I can find in the application mails in my mailbox
<funkyHat> I'm having a go at fixing this https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/594368 and I've noticed that running dch-i sets the version to 0.75.10ubuntu1... should I change this as it doesn't appear to be a package that's synced from debian?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 594368 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "add-apt-repository uses deprecated attributes 'FindI' and 'FindDir' of 'apt_pkg.Configuration'" [Undecided,New]
<arand> funkyHat: I guess it should be 0.75.10-0ubuntu1 for maverick, but consider sending the fix to debian as well, I reckon.
<funkyHat> arand: it shouldn't just be 0.75.11?
<arand> funkyHat: If it's ubuntu-native, yes.
<arand> Althought, probably safer to wait for someone more knowledgable than me...
<funkyHat> I'm pretty sure it is, the previous versions are (0.75.10) lucid (0.75.9) lucid (0.75.8) lucid
<arand> And that forward to debian, is rather forward upstream, whatever that is.
<funkyHat> I think "upstream" is the project on launchpad
<arand> funkyHat: Seems to be ubuntu native https://edge.launchpad.net/software-properties then I guess you are correct in the versioning, yes
<arand> SInce upstream is in fact ubuntu
<funkyHat> Oops... I requested to have it merged to lp:ubuntu/software-properties when it probably should have been lp:software-properties
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-15
<bdrung> some kde folks here?
<ajmitch> probably in #kubuntu-devel, I think that's where we chase them to
<bdrung> ajmitch: thanks. that's probably the right place
<funkyHat> ajmitch: with sticks?
<ajmitch> of doom
<JontheEchidna> pointy sticks, at that
<funkyHat> â¢)
 * ScottK finds an insufficiency of longpointysticksofdoom lately.
<micahg> imbrandon: ping
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach, geser
<dholbach> hola ajmitch
<Rhonda> \o/ bug 528957
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528957 in libsdl1.2 (Ubuntu Lucid) "mouse button clicks not detected in windowed mode" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528957
<Rhonda> libsdl1.2 | 1.2.14-4ubuntu1.1 | lucid-proposed | source
<ajmitch> Rhonda: yeah, it got uploaded awhile ago :)
<ajmitch> just took time to work its way through, sorry
<Rhonda> ajmitch: You are the last one to have to say sorry - you did all the work. :)
<NorthernLights> Hello all
<ajmitch> Rhonda: I just stole what bdfreese did :)
<Rhonda> Don't we all love our bdfreese work slave. :)
<ajmitch> pity he's not around in here to thank
<NorthernLights> May I bother someone to check a package on revu?
<NorthernLights> URL is http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/killrogues, it's a python program to disconnect rogue machines off a network
<NorthernLights> Also i added comments on packages http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gmail-notifier and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pycasa
<dupondje> Can somebody sponsor https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synce-kpm/+bug/589908 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 589908 in synce-kpm (Ubuntu) "Fix FTBFS due to changed Python options" [Undecided,New]
<dupondje> the ftbfs is fixed in debian, we should just sync now :)
<ajmitch> dupondje: there's nothing to sponsor - autosyncs are still being run, so it'll get imported automatically
<tumbleweed> I need an SRU sponsor: Bug #467278
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 467278 in openoffice.org-dictionaries (Ubuntu) "[SRU 10.04] South African English Dictionary still missing lots of words" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/467278
<dupondje> ajmitch: err indeed, tought we had a ubuntu delta :) seems not
<zul> did someone reject the ebsmount upload?
<james_w> zul: yes, smoser got the mail explaining why
<zul> james_w: ah ok
<james_w> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-archive/2010-June/035622.html
<shadeslayer> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> shadeslayer: pong
<shadeslayer> dholbach: i heard that you live in berlin? ( ot topic,can i pm you? )
<dholbach> sure, go ahead :)
<shadeslayer> hi i have qtcreator building here : https://edge.launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/kde-extra/+packages : for maverick
<shadeslayer> i built it locally but it doesnt seem to pick up qt4-demos
<shadeslayer> ( after installation i.e. )
<ripps> I want to try and debug something that's been crashing my tabs. Is there a technique to capture errors that crash individual tabs instead of all of chromium?
<hyperair> try asking in #chromium. someone there should know.
<micahg> ripps: you can try asking fta in #ubuntu-mozillateam as well
<fta> ripps, http://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/LinuxDebugging
<EricBa> Hello, is there any motu who has some time to review my package? It's already reviewed by one motu. My programm is a wallpaper changer for gnome. - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/cortina
<shadeslayer> ok any MOTU around to mentor me?
<imbrandon> micahg: pong
<micahg> imbrandon: hi, since you sponsored my vlc update for xul192 I was wondering if you'd like to comment on my uploaded application for the mozilla package set
<imbrandon> micahg: sure whats your wiki url ?
<micahg> imbrandon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/micahg/MozillaUploaderApp
<micahg> imbrandon: thanks
<imbrandon> micahg: np, i'll do it this evening unless there is a presing need for it sooner
<micahg> imbrandon: that's great, meeting isn't till next tuesday, thanks
<imbrandon> :)
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, what do you want?
<fabrice_sp> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: like i said,a mentor for my path to MOTU
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, the mentoring program is being reimplemented
<fabrice_sp> do you already have the pointer to the wiki page?
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: no :(
<fabrice_sp> let me look
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring ?
<fabrice_sp> yes :-)
<fabrice_sp> you are faster :-)
<fabrice_sp> a lot of people are asking for mentoring and few mentors are available, so you can also make your own path
<fabrice_sp> there is no predefined one
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: ah ok,well i did some contributing with http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtcreator
<fabrice_sp> new package?
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: my lp page : launchpad.net/~rohangarg
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: new upstream release
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: qtcreator released their RC
<shadeslayer> ok now im going to learn merging :P
<shadeslayer> after that i have to file a MIR against linphone which i keep putting off everyday :D
<shadeslayer> eagles0513875: hang around here :)
<eagles0513875> i usually do :)
<fabrice_sp> if you are more interested in K packages, you could connect to kubuntu channels
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: already in them :P
<eagles0513875> fabrice_sp: this channel servers for all derivatives of ubuntu
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: that package was sponsored by maco in #kubuntu-devel :P
<fabrice_sp> you can have a look at my wiki page to see what I had done when I applied for Motuship
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: awesome,where is it?
 * shadeslayer goes to look at some k ftbfs
<fabrice_sp> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FabriceCoutadeur
<fabrice_sp> I stopped updating it after motuship :-D
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: that tends to happen :P
<fabrice_sp> yeah :-)
 * fabrice_sp goes to sponsor some stuff waiting in the sponsorship queue
 * maco waves
<shadeslayer> maco: hey :)
<fabrice_sp> Hey maco! :-)
 * micahg has a bug waiting for motu ack :)
<fabrice_sp> micahg, if it's in universe, I'm your sponsor :-D
 * shadeslayer notes that build queue is backed up for the next few days
<micahg> fabrice_sp: bug #594779, thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 594779 in pidgin-microblog (Ubuntu) "Sync pidgin-microblog 0.3.0-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/594779
 * fabrice_sp on it
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: so much to do :)
<fabrice_sp> :-D
<fabrice_sp> I like to take my time, so it has been a bit longer that expected
<shadeslayer> and i dont even remember half the stuff i got sponsored :P
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: ive even packaged upgrades for main :P
<fabrice_sp> you should: you sponsors would ask you for that list to check your progress and make some ocmment swhen you'll apply
<micahg> shadeslayer: +related-software on LP
<shadeslayer> maco: ooohhh
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: https://edge.launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+related-software
<fabrice_sp> I saw :-)
<maco> shadeslayer: was that aimed at micahg
<fabrice_sp> but sponsor name is not there ;-)
<fabrice_sp> I think os :-)
<shadeslayer> maco: yeah :P
<micahg> fabrice_sp: shadeslayer: if you click on the version, you can see the sponsor
<shadeslayer> micahg: ooohhh :)
 * fabrice_sp is a lazy sponsor :-)
<ajmitch> no lazier than the rest of us
<fabrice_sp> micahg, you also changes an .install file
<fabrice_sp> what was is for?
<fabrice_sp> ajmitch, :-)
<fabrice_sp> micahg, sorry: I missed the changelog entry
<micahg> fabrice_sp: np
<fabrice_sp> by the way, weren't you suppose to apply for motu?!
 * fabrice_sp is getting old and remember things that may not have happened
<micahg> fabrice_sp: well, I'm applying for mozilla package set :)
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: btw if a package builds after downgrading depends,can we upload it?
<fabrice_sp> oh, right
 * micahg is glad it's the right time to ask for upload rights :)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: would you care to comment on my app?
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, I don't understand the question
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kali
<fabrice_sp> micahg, did I sponsor any of your mozilla work?
<micahg> fabrice_sp: you sponsored uim which was tangetially related
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: that package is waiting for a depends on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libforms1 version 1.0.93,can i downgrade the version in kali and get it to build?
<fabrice_sp> micahg, because of a transition: I remember it
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, it's better to see why libforms1 is not with the right version
<fabrice_sp> and not downgrade dependencies
<micahg> fabrice_sp: bug 477513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 477513 in uim (Ubuntu Karmic) "FireFox crashes routinely karmic i386 with uim" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/477513
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: hmm... so upgrade libforms1 ?
<shadeslayer> doesnt have a upstream link.... grumble grumble....
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, better check in Debian
<shadeslayer> yeah on it :)
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: should i set the upstream link in lp as well?
<fabrice_sp> micahg, right: I remember this one, but not sure that one upload gives me authority to comment your application :-)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: you can comment regardless, whether or not you can comment as a sponsor idk
<fabrice_sp> micahg, I know :-) where is you application wiki page?
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, no idea if it's of any use
<micahg> fabrice_sp: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/micahg/MozillaUploaderApp, thanks
<fabrice_sp> micahg, any other packages (not mozilla related) I sponsored?
<shadeslayer> micahg: might want to correct : I can't thing of anything I don't like at the moment about Ubuntu
<micahg> fabrice_sp: I don't think so
<shadeslayer> s/thing/think ;)
<fabrice_sp> by the way, the uim fix is still in proposed, right?
 * micahg hopes not
<micahg> yeah :(
<dupondje> somebody can check https://launchpad.net/bugs/590820 ? its open for some time now :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 590820 in debian-med (Ubuntu) "Please merge debian-med 1.6 (universe) from debian unstable" [Undecided,New]
<micahg> fabrice_sp: probably because I didn't have a real test case
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: more work for you :P
<fabrice_sp> micahg, yeah: random crash are very hard to fix
<micahg> fabrice_sp: the problem also is that people saw the title and commented (I'm crashing too) which made pitti worry
 * micahg will have to follow up with that later
 * dupondje is giving the sponsors some work again ^^
<dupondje> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40953530/pidgin-microblog_0.2.4-1_0.2.4-1ubuntu1.diff.gz => this could be dropped right in maverick ?
<dupondje> we don't need a transitional package anymore ?
<geser> right, all upgrades from any previous Ubuntu release go through lucid which has this transitional package
<micahg> dupondje: I just submitted that :)
 * dupondje slaps micahg with https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html :)
 * micahg refers dupondje to bug 594779
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 594779 in pidgin-microblog (Ubuntu) "Sync pidgin-microblog 0.3.0-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/594779
<dupondje> you should add it to the list in the mom :)
<micahg> dupondje: you should check the bugs list before starting on a merge :)
 * dupondje hides :)
<micahg> doesn't mom update itself every so often w/sync bugs?
<fabrice_sp> I don't think mom is so clever
<fabrice_sp> pidgin-microblog sync uploaded
<micahg> fabrice_sp: do I need to do something as dupondje suggested
<fabrice_sp> update manually MoM t oreflect that your are on it?
<fabrice_sp> yes
<fabrice_sp> especially if you are not the last uploader :-)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: how does one do that?  I was the last changer (not uploader)
<dupondje> you can add the comment in the mom
<micahg> how
<dupondje> its a 'hidden' input field
<dupondje> try clicking on the right ;)
<micahg> ah
<micahg> dupondje: thanks, didn't know, will keep in mind
<fabrice_sp> dupondje, if micahg is the last changer and is active, you should have asked him before working on the merge :-)
<dupondje> just didn't notice he did a sync :)
<shadeslayer> maco: would we want something line usr/lib/libforms.la in our install files ? we already have usr/lib/libforms.a
<shadeslayer> like with .py and .pyc files.... we dont put in .pyc files... ive never seen .la files :p
<maco> shadeslayer: um O_O
<geser> and MoM doesn't clear old comments, so you might need to recheck if the comment is still true (e.g. like lower bug numbers than current ones)
<shadeslayer> well anyone else have a opinion on that?
<maco> i dont know a whole lot about excess files from compilation
<shadeslayer> maco: :)
<shadeslayer> ok what about usr/share/man/man1/fdesign.1 ?
<geser> shadeslayer: .la compare more to .pc (pkg-config) files (.a is the variant of a .so used for static linking)
<dupondje> yea geser it should autoclear the old comments imo
<ari-tczew> lool: could you upload a new upstream packed libsmbios into Debian experimental? if we will find testers with this hardware, they can download .debs from experimental
<dupondje> the MoM isn't perfect but ok :)
 * fabrice_sp agrees with dupontje
<shadeslayer> geser: ah ok... so i should put it in with the rest of the .a files...
<ari-tczew> we need a modern merge system
<shadeslayer> or with the .so files?
<micahg> dupondje: well, blacklist comments shouldn't be cleared
<shadeslayer> ari-tczew: care to design one? :)
<geser> dupondje: feel free to improve it (lp:merge-o-matic)
<ari-tczew> shadeslayer: I'm not a stricte-code-developer, but I'm going to do a project
<geser> shadeslayer: yes, unless a .pc file it shipped to which is prefered (.la files have some short-comings)
 * fabrice_sp will upload atlas, an armel killer :-)
 * micahg thought the new harvest was supposed to be better
<shadeslayer> geser: nope... no pc file :(
<geser> wasn't ghc6 the armel-killer?
<dupondje> armel queue is 6 days now :p
<fabrice_sp> 6 days?!
<geser> shadeslayer: then ship the .la file in the -dev package
 * fabrice_sp will be far away when atlas will enter the queue :-)
<dupondje> 827 jobs (five days)
<dupondje> five days only ... :p
<shadeslayer> geser: btw theres no install file for usr/share/man/man1/* files
<shadeslayer> and i have 3 of them....
<geser> dupondje: that's sparc
<geser> armel:  93 jobs (2 hours 50 minutes)
<shadeslayer> geser: but theres a libforms-doc-doc-base file
<shadeslayer> um... libforms-doc.doc-base
<dupondje> I need better eyes :)
<dupondje> damn
<shadeslayer> and... a  libforms-doc.install file
<shadeslayer> dupondje: or just a pair of contacts
<dupondje> somebody want to sponsor ? ^^
<geser> shadeslayer: unless those are the man pages for binaries, libforms-doc sounds right
<shadeslayer> geser: hmm.. idk if they are from binaries....
 * shadeslayer checks
<shadeslayer> geser: all 3 are binary man pages it seems
<geser> then they should be in the same package as the binaries they are for
<shadeslayer> geser: ok so i just dump the paths there? like they are from libforms1-bin,so i just add usr/share/man/man5/xforms.5
<shadeslayer> which is the missing file...
<geser> yes
<shadeslayer> ok cool :)
<shadeslayer> loads of lintian warnings... correcting :)
<fabrice_sp> only 2 hours before the armel build of atlas begins: I won't be as far as I thought!
<fabrice_sp> anyway, Debian lasted 40 hours, so we have time :-)
<shadeslayer> geser: quick question,we have https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libforms1 of libforms
<shadeslayer> and i packaged 1.0.93sp1-5ubuntu1~ppa1
<shadeslayer> ( the ppa1 will be removed later )
<shadeslayer> i think my versioning is wrong... can you second that?
<micahg> fabrice_sp: luckily, there are 9 armel buildds, so tying up 1 isn't as big a adeal
<fabrice_sp> and ghc6 took 1 day and 10 hours, so lets see if it's near that :-)
<fabrice_sp> time to go to bed. g8 all
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: bye :)
<geser> shadeslayer: is this an version upgrade?
<shadeslayer> geser: yes
<shadeslayer> a new upstream version 1.0.93sp1 was released
<micahg> fabrice_sp: thanks for the upload
<geser> shadeslayer: I see in the PTS that libforms1 got removed from testing and unstable as it got renamed to libform
<shadeslayer> geser: PTS ?
<geser> shadeslayer: and it's already at 1.0.93sp1-1, so you just need to monitor it that it gets synced (new packages aren't synced that often)
<shadeslayer> ah ok...
<geser> shadeslayer: Package Tracking System (http://packages.qa.debian.org/common/index.html)
<shadeslayer> damn... wasted half an hour :P
<geser> shadeslayer: I hope you learned something nonetheless with it
<shadeslayer> hehe :)
<shadeslayer> geser: yeah the .la files ;)
<shadeslayer> geser: ok tell me one more thing
<shadeslayer> geser: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kali has a dep on libforms1 ( the 1.0.93sp1 version )
<shadeslayer> so i guess i have to correct that to libforms ?
<shadeslayer> oh wait...
<shadeslayer> geser: nvm :)
 * shadeslayer tests the new package for sync
<shadeslayer> anyone who has sync priviliges?
<geser> only archive admins can really sync
<shadeslayer> well.... ill ask Riddell then :)
<shadeslayer> lets see how this compiles first :)
<shadeslayer> oh my....
<shadeslayer> geser: package has problems with installing stuff
<shadeslayer> will port to ubuntu :)
<ari-tczew> geser: syncpackage scripts says some different :P
<geser> ari-tczew: that's more like uploading, although the "real" sync scripts do the same, hmm
<shadeslayer> geser: ok can you tell me why debian has binary packages of libformsgl2 but ubuntu does not? ( lintian says : W: libformsgl2: empty-binary-package
<shadeslayer>  )
<ari-tczew> geser: What about sync-in-launchpad (API implement), any progress?
<shadeslayer> geser: http://pastebin.com/BmJNb49S
<geser> ari-tczew: I don't know of any
<ajmitch> still incomplete, from what I know
<ari-tczew> I no see a reason for waiting archive admins's reaction in sync
<ari-tczew> if script doing the same thing
 * micahg just benefited from the sync script
<geser> shadeslayer: because it got introduced with the new version. and it looks broken if the package is emtpy (the debian package is non-empty)
<shadeslayer> geser: um i think i didnt mention that i downloaded the new debian package
<shadeslayer> and  when you debuild in maverick,it complains about missing files and such,so when you remove those files from install files in debian/ it gives you a empty bin package
<lool> ari-tczew: I lack hardware for testing libsmbios
<lool> ari-tczew: So while I can review source diffs, and sponsor binaries to Debian, I rely on testers
<geser> shadeslayer: check why the files are missing, that's the error that needs fixing
<lool> ari-tczew: I'm in the uploaders field because I sponsored the current package, and so it will show on my list
<lool> ari-tczew: But I dont maintain it
<shadeslayer> geser: so according to you the package shouldnt be empty right?
<dobey> hrmm
<geser> yes, see http://packages.debian.org/sid/i386/libformsgl2/filelist
<dobey> the new ubuntuone-storage-protocol is failing to build it seems, and i'm not entirely sure why, given it all worked out well before i uploaded it :)
<geser> a very helpful error message in the build log
<dobey> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/450301/
<ajmitch> dobey: that's rather uninformative
<dobey> ajmitch: exactly!
<ari-tczew> lool: so if you want to review diff, please check bug 591017
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 591017 in libsmbios (Ubuntu) "Upgrade libsmbios to 2.2.19" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/591017
<lool> ari-tczew: Could you ping Jose Luis Tallon?
<lool> ari-tczew: Send him an email Cc:ing me asking whether he intents to fix the issues
<shadeslayer> geser: ok im building a fresh copy... ill paste the errors....
<ari-tczew> lool: what next if he won't answer or doesn't want to fix the issues?
<lool> ari-tczew: We will see from there, I will escalate myself if he doesn't answer
<lool> ari-tczew: ask for a timeline
<shadeslayer> geser: http://paste.ubuntu.com/450308/
<shadeslayer> now if i start removing those files from *.install i get empty packages....
<shadeslayer> no idea whatsoever how to proceed
<dobey> ajmitch: ah, i found the problem after some more digging.
<ajmitch> dobey: oh good, because I got distracted from checking it :)
<ajmitch> is it a quick fix that you need sponsored?
<dobey> i don't need it sponsored, no. was just confused by the message
<ajmitch> ok
<shadeslayer> geser: still around?
<geser> yes
<shadeslayer> :)
<shadeslayer> geser: seen my last pastebin?
<geser> shadeslayer: have you also the other part from the log?
<shadeslayer> geser: what other part?
<geser> before the part you pastebined
<shadeslayer> geser: yes.. do you want the entire log?
<geser> yes
<shadeslayer> geser: please wait :)
<shadeslayer> geser: http://pastebin.com/rmMMLNks
<geser> shadeslayer: found it, see lines 159-161 and compare with https://buildd.debian.org/fetch.cgi?pkg=libforms;ver=1.0.93sp1-1;arch=amd64;stamp=1274959793
<geser> for some reason GL is not found
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: you are building in pbuilder, right?
<shadeslayer> um no :(
<geser> so libformsGL isn't build which explains why dh_install cannot find it
<shadeslayer> i have a full blown maverick install....
<shadeslayer> yeah...
<shadeslayer> should i get a pbuilder? ( i would prefer a chroot though )
<ari-tczew> sudo pbuilder-dist create maverick
<geser> pbuilder uses clean chroots for building
<dutchie> a pbuilder is a chroot
<ari-tczew> sudo pbuilder build *.dsc
<shadeslayer> yes but you lose a pbuilder when you logout
<shadeslayer> and i dont have that much of bandwidth :P
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: pbuilder caches downloaded debs
<tumbleweed> also you can point it at your local apt-proxy if you run one
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: can i keep a pbuilder after restart?
<tumbleweed> you don't keep it. it starts from a minimal install on every build
<ajmitch> yes, pbuilder chroot tarballs are meant to be permanent - the only part that gets cleaned up is the per-package chroot
<ari-tczew> sudo pbuilder-dist maverick build *.dsc
<shadeslayer> ok
<tumbleweed> if you have lots of RAM, you can build on a tmpfs, and installing the build-deps is pretty quick
<ari-tczew> I've aliases in .bashrc for every active release
<shadeslayer> ari-tczew: i set REMOVEPACKAGES= to no right?
<shadeslayer> to get deb cache?
<geser> APTCACHE=
<shadeslayer> geser: ok and where can i specify that it has to drop to a shell so that i can investigate?
<shadeslayer> for missing files and stuff
<tumbleweed> however, that doesn't actually fix the problem :)
<tumbleweed> checking GL/glx.h usability... no
<tumbleweed> checking GL/glx.h presence... no
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: :)
<ari-tczew> if you're building by pbuilder-dist, you have to looking for .debs in ~/pbuilder
<geser> /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/C10shell
<tumbleweed> geser: yeah I have that
<geser> shadeslayer: copy that to HOOKDIR
<shadeslayer> geser: thanks
<geser> tumbleweed: check the configure log why the check failed
<shadeslayer> ok might take some while
<tumbleweed> geser: yeah, I'm having a look (sorry I missed shadeslayer's question on C10shell)
<shadeslayer> geser: i used sudo pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd from the wiki
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: np
<geser> shadeslayer: you can set HOOKDIR in your ~/.pbuilderrc (or the global one) (and you don't need to recreate the pbuilder for this)
<shadeslayer> geser: i know ;)
<shadeslayer> ive used pbuilder before,just didnt know which hookscript to use
<shadeslayer> geser: any idea why it isnt picking up the headers ?
<geser> I use B91debc, C10shell and D10man-db (disables the update of man-db)
<tumbleweed> ok, so it's a change in the most recent mesa-common-dev upload
<tumbleweed> glx.h moved
<geser> where to?
<tumbleweed> I don't see any bugs filed yet
<tumbleweed> /usr/include, from /usr/include/GL
<tumbleweed> upload was only 16hrs ago
<tumbleweed> merged from debian experimental...
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: im guessing the debian package was built before that....
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: the debian build we are looking at is unstable, not experimental
<shadeslayer> ah...
<shadeslayer> small problem gets blown into a big one :P
<geser> https://buildd.debian.org/fetch.cgi?pkg=mesa&arch=amd64&ver=7.8.1-2&stamp=1276261829&file=log&as=raw
<geser> -rw-r--r-- root/root     17913 2010-06-11 13:06 ./usr/include/GL/glx.h
<geser> didn't find a log for -3
<geser> http://packages.debian.org/experimental/amd64/mesa-common-dev/filelist lists also /usr/include/GL/glx.h
<ajmitch> it may only be in git, or incoming.d.o
<ajmitch> the changelog doesn't mention an explicit move of them
<tumbleweed> mesa source is big, but I'm pulling and having a look
<shadeslayer> hehe.. 4 people working on error due to a file move :D
<ajmitch> it's fairly important
<ajmitch> someone will get poked over this :)
<shadeslayer> ajmitch: i can see that :D
<ajmitch> namely RAOF when he's awake
<shadeslayer> :D
<geser> I started asking in #ubuntu-x
<tumbleweed> I wish UDD had merge-mode repos available :/
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: explain?
<ajmitch> you mean being able to grab a repository tarball or something like that?
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: I'm only interested in changes in /debian, but I have to download >100MB of stuff
<ajmitch> you can do lightweight checkouts, iirc
<ajmitch> though that'll still get a full working tree
<tumbleweed> of course many packages touch files outside /debian in the .diff.gz, so that's why UDD is the way it is
<lifeless> ajmitch: generally slower than just pulling it all, FWIW
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: yeah I need history
<tumbleweed> aah there we go, only 195M
<ajmitch> 'only' :)
<ajmitch> lifeless: that's unfortunate
<lifeless> tumbleweed: thats from du -sh .bzr ?
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: so ill have to wait till this is sorted out? :)
<ajmitch> lifeless: this is why I'd love NZ mirrors of branches :)
<tumbleweed> lifeless: good point, 80M, that's just what bzr told me
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: yeah, I'm in ZA, where bandwdith is slow and expensive, especially international
 * shadeslayer goes and looks at some merges
 * ajmitch does get far better speed from home, rather than at work - perhaps that's a hint
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: yes, you should wait
<geser> ajmitch: yes, that you should setup QoS for yourself at work :)
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: btw while creating pbuilder i got : W: no hooks of type E found -- ignoring
<ajmitch> geser: I blame the ISP - I grab stuff at work because it doesn't have a data cap, unlike most home DSL here
<lifeless> tumbleweed: there is a bzr bug or two related to data transfer
<lifeless> tumbleweed: we're working on it
<ajmitch> geser: by slow, I mean ~8k/sec grabbing packages from archive.ubuntu.com
<tumbleweed> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-xorg/lib/mesa.git;a=commit;h=74a3b2aba5852cb18c47e5eed9349888cc9481f3
<lifeless> ajmitch: do some tcp analysis
<lifeless> ajmitch: you could be suffering buffer congestion, for instance - the rtt to some mirrors will be very high
<lifeless> ajmitch: and remember too, that you have *no control* over the tcp buffer for http if you're on clear or telecom - they both have intercepting proxies
<lifeless> ajmitch: with the result that any networking tuning you do is useles
<ajmitch> it's WIC, a dunedin wireless ISP
<tumbleweed> lifeless: from experience here (we are miles from everybody) you need around a 10Mbps line before tcp tuning becomes necessary
<lifeless> ajmitch: yes, but do they buy SCC bandwidth ?
<ajmitch> but there is at least some QoS going on in the office
<lifeless> tumbleweed: by miles, do you mean other side of the planet ?
<ajmitch> the get upstream bandwidth from FX networks
<tumbleweed> lifeless: cape town
<lifeless> tumbleweed: you're about 50% closer than we are
<tumbleweed> lifeless: yeah
<lifeless> tumbleweed: and ADSL2 can go way past 10Mbps
<tumbleweed> some day we'll start seeing that...
 * ajmitch is lucky & has about 16Mbps at home
<lifeless> ajmitch: fx.net.nz ?
<ajmitch> lifeless: yep
<lifeless> ajmitch: do they run an intercepting proxy ?
<ajmitch> not as far as I know, I haven't checked for one
<lifeless> ajmitch: either wic or fx, that is
<ajmitch> I just suspect that they've underbought international capacity
<ajmitch> at one point a few weeks ago, we had no international connectivity because they'd apparantly not had enough
<lifeless> ajmitch: WIC didn't, or FX didn't ?
<ajmitch> WIC
<jpds> WIX.
<ajmitch> not WIX, WIC :)
<ajmitch> just to be confusing :)
<lifeless> jpds: WIX is wellington
<jpds> ;)
<lifeless> jpds: WIC is in dunedin
<lifeless> ajmitch: I've fired off a query to fx
<directhex> WIX is a Free Software tool for making .msi installers for windows, afaik
<lifeless> directhex: there are many WIX's
<ajmitch> directhex: lies, it's the wellington internet exchange!
<lifeless> directhex: http://wix.nzix.net/
<directhex> i know a guy who married a lady who called herself wix online
<ajmitch> lifeless: thanks, not sure how much FX can help but it's worth a shot
<directhex> wait, that was wyx
<lifeless> ajmitch: well, I'm happy to pay for *actual internet*
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: can you point me to a easy merge? i can package alright... stuff with CMakeLists.txt ....
<lifeless> I realised that I spent some time trying to figure out how international HTTP could be damaged...
<ajmitch> in your squid days?
<lifeless> when a bluecoat proxy was interfering
<lifeless> no, couple weeks back
<shadeslayer> there is so much on MoM that idk what can be a good starting point...
<lifeless> telecom run a MITM on all http sessions
<ajmitch> telecom being as helpful as ever
 * lifeless is tempted to propose a patch to firefox to do no-cache on *every single request*
<lifeless> ajmitch: clear do to.
<jpds> lifeless: Firebug can do that.
<ajmitch> all http, or just all international?
<lifeless> ajmitch: so I need to find an ISP that actually a) buy their own international traffic. b) don't MITM their customer traffic.
<lifeless> jpds: not for every ubuntu user.
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer, geser: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/+bug/594863
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 594863 in mesa (Ubuntu) "glx.h moved, causes FTBFS in other packages" [Undecided,New]
 * ajmitch generally gets decent speeds with snap.net.nz at home, will have to check up on their proxy usage
<ajmitch> they're christchurch-based, too
<lifeless> jpds: which is my point: if 38% or whatever of NZ starting actively attacking the MITM system, it would need to get addressed.
<jpds> Ouch.
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: whee :)
<lifeless> jpds: intercepting proxies are a bad design.
<tumbleweed> lifeless: yeah we have the same problems here, although intercepting proxies seem to be decreasing in popularity
<lifeless> a study done a few years back found > 50% of traffic was p2p anyway
<geser> tumbleweed: Sarvatt has it almost fixed already
<lifeless> so the incremental benefit of an intercepting proxy is diminishing year on year
<tumbleweed> geser: oh, ta
<shadeslayer> geser: can you comment on https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html,package kptc that im doing the merge?
<ajmitch> shadeslayer: you can comment on it, the field just isn't very visible
<shadeslayer> ajmitch: where?
<geser> shadeslayer: the comment column
<geser> it's an input field
<shadeslayer> oh my...
<ajmitch> great UI design :)
<shadeslayer> that is barely visible
<ajmitch> yep
<shadeslayer> geser: the pbuilder didnt drop to shell
<lifeless> ajmitch: snap claim they don't
<shadeslayer> on build fail
<lifeless> ajmitch: however that was likely slightly garbled query, so I'll check more fully when we move home ;)
<shadeslayer> geser: W: no hooks of type C found -- ignoring
<geser> shadeslayer: where does your HOOKDIR point to?
<shadeslayer> geser: /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/C10shell
<geser> that's not a dir :) HOOKDIR="/usr/lib/pbuilder/hooks" (or something in your home) and copy C10shell there
<shadeslayer> geser: ohh
<shadeslayer> geser: the sudo pbuilder update?
<geser> not needed, just sudo pbuilder build ...
<shadeslayer> btw anyone around to tell me which file is which in the merge?
<shadeslayer> geser: got a sec?
<shadeslayer> geser: nvm :)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-16
<kaflowski> hi sebsebseb
<kaflowski> can I conplain about the game Nexuiz here?
<kaflowski> I believe i was hacked on it
<micahg> geser: ping
<micahg> cody-somerville: ping
<cody-somerville> pong
<micahg> cody-somerville: I have a question about adding myself to the DMB agenda, there's no place for Package sets, so I was thinking to add Package Set applications between MOTU and contributing devs
<micahg> geser: unping
<cody-somerville> micahg, Are you requesting a new package set? Or asking to be granted upload for an existing package set?
<micahg> cody-somerville: upload rights
<cody-somerville> micahg, Is there a team that grants those rights?
<micahg> cody-somerville: DMB
<micahg> cody-somerville: Mozilla package set that was approved 3 weeks ago :)
<cody-somerville> So we didn't delegate authority for the packageset to another team or something?
<micahg> cody-somerville: no, not that I recall
<cody-somerville> PerPackageUploader Applications section or a new section is fine
<micahg> cody-somerville: are most package set applications authorized by a team other than the DMB?
<cody-somerville> some, not all.
<micahg> cody-somerville: k, I'll add under per-package uploader then with a note
<micahg> cody-somerville: thanks
<cody-somerville> np
<micahg> cody-somerville: the uploaders team is a smaller subset of the mozilla team w/commit rights to the branches
<micahg> s/with/that has/
<dobey> hrmm
<dobey> anyone know why a package published in the archive already, wouldn't have its data in the bzr tree yet?
<dobey> it's interesting, since i uploaded another package today, and it's in the bzr tree already, but the package is in dep-wait for some reason
<ajmitch> http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/ubuntuone-client.html
<ajmitch> import failed, file a bug against udd
<dobey> huh
<ajmitch> I presume that was the package you'd mentioned?
<dobey> yeah. it failed in both maverick and lucid
<dobey> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/594908
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 594908 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "ubuntuone-client failing to import" [Undecided,New]
<dobey> i guess that's good enough?
<ajmitch> hopefully it is
<lifeless> have a look at the error log for it
<dobey> guess i'll just wait until morning to finish the upload then.
<dobey> thanks ajmitch. later :)
<ajmitch> np
<dholbach> good morning
<slytherin> Rhonda: there?
<Rhonda> slytherin: Am here now, but you aren't anymore.
<EricBa> Hello, is there any motu who has some time to review my package? It's already reviewed by one motu. My programm is a wallpaper changer for gnome. - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/cortina
<BlackZ> EricBa: just a question: why are you uploading in on REVU instead of debian? it would have more benefits
<BlackZ> and you will get it in ubuntu however
<EricBa> BlackZ: I didn't know about any other sites
<BlackZ> EricBa: read http://people.debian.org/~mpalmer/debian-mentors_FAQ.html
<BlackZ> that could help you
<paqman> Hi, looking for somebody to help out with packaging for a quick one line bugfix, check out bug #535193 for iriverter
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 535193 in iriverter (Ubuntu) "Iriverter fails to launch" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/535193
<tumbleweed> paqman: how can I help?
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: any news on the mesa fix?
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: you didn't subscribe to the bug? It has been fixed
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: no i didnt :(
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: thanks :)
<shadeslayer_> whee ... it even built :)
<ionte> hi. i have a simple question. am i not supposed to put the "./configure ..." command of the build-process in the configure-section of the rules file?
<ionte> the problem is that during debuild it first tries to clean ("make clean"), but it has not generated any Makefile yet
<azeem> only make clean if a Makefile is present
<azeem> something like
<azeem> [ ! -f Makefile ] || $(MAKE) distclean
<ionte> ok, thanks. the examples i've seen doesn't do that...
<xteejx> QUESTION: If grab-merge shows C* changes between Ubuntu and Debian, but I can see that the files are the same apart from whitespace, can it be synced (the Ubuntu changes were implemented in Debian)
<xteejx> Actually, does it even need merged or synced at all if that is the only change?
<tumbleweed> xteejx: doesn't C stand for conflict? If ubuntu's changes could be successfully merged, you won't see them in the report
<xteejx> tumbleweed: The conflict is only whitespace between Debian and Ubuntu versions
<xteejx> 100% sure on that
<shadeslayer> ok this is a diff b/w the control file of debian and ubuntu : http://pastebin.com/fBVZHyyw
<tumbleweed> xteejx: that doesn't mean debian has merged ubuntu's changes
<shadeslayer> do i need to change line 18 and 17 ?
<xteejx> tumbleweed: Its in the changelog
<shadeslayer> s/and/to
<tumbleweed> xteejx: aah, ok
<tumbleweed> xteejx: and you've verified that it builds and works
<xteejx> It's a safe sync and it builds
<shadeslayer> so the ubuntu package reads Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
<xteejx> yes
<tumbleweed> xteejx: sync away
<xteejx> tumbleweed: Cool thanks, just was a little unsure about that "conflict" which wasn't really one hehe :)
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: use everything from the debian version except fro the maintainer change
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: ok...
<xteejx> I'm getting good with these merges :D Just keep forgetting to add the LP tag :S
<tumbleweed> it looks more likely that debian changed things there than ubuntu did
<xteejx> Huh? Why is virtualbox-use-guest-dkms selected for install with an update in Maverick??
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: seems that debian also released a new upstream version,will mention in changelog
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: also since debian has a package the version should have 1ubuntu1 right? ( just confirming )
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: assuming we still need ubuntu changes, yes
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: are they relevant to debian? Have they been forwarded?
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: the ubuntu changes?
<shadeslayer_> i dont think theres anything different apart from the control file
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: which package?
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: kredentials
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: its on MoM
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: so, the Ubuntu change was to disable arts support
<tumbleweed> (kredentials_0.9.4+nmu1ubuntu1.patch)
<shadeslayer_> yes
<shadeslayer_>     - debian/rules: Add --without-arts to remove aRts support
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: also i see dh_clean instances in rules of debian
<shadeslayer_> dh_prep as well
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: http://pastebin.com/89eMAACp
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: we add those as well right?
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: yes the only change you want to keep there is the --without-arts addition
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: ok..
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: debian also added debian/source/format ....
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: the only changes you want to make to the whole package are: maintainer, --without-arts, and changelog merge + new entry
<shadeslayer> ok...
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: wow.. huge debdiff... probably because of new upstream release
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: yes :)
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/kredentials_0.9.4+nmu1ubuntu1.dsc
<shadeslayer_> whools
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: http://pastebin.com/upbzxBG7
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: aah, so when I said yes to -1ubuntu1 earlier, I didn't realise you were talking about a native package
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: well yes its a new package :P
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: new release of a native package
<shadeslayer> yep
<tumbleweed> native packages don't have -<debian revision number> at the end
<tumbleweed> so your version should be 0.9.5ubuntu1
<shadeslayer_> ah ok
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: will post new debdiff :)
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: will you sponsor the merge?
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: I have no rights :)
<shadeslayer> bhargav: ill be back in a hour then we can talk :D
<shadeslayer> or if tumbleweed is kind enough to teach you merging :P
<shadeslayer> you can ask him :)
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: aww....
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: thanks anyways :D
<tumbleweed> np
<EricBa> Hello, is there any motu who has some time to review my package? It's already reviewed by one motu. My programm is a wallpaper changer for gnome. - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/cortina
<bilalakhtar> Hey there, can anyone sponsor package python-tweepy??
<bilalakhtar> bug #579992
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 579992 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] python-tweepy" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/579992
<xteejx> Hey guys, bug 391918 ... the mom page shows debian version 2.5.3-2 but the bug has an earlier version. Is this wrong since the debian version is newer than the incorrect? bug report??
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 391918 in xenomai (Ubuntu) "Please merge xenomai 2.4.8-2 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/391918
<geser> xteejx: old comment as the bug is already "Fix released". MoM doesn't clear comments.
<xteejx> geser: Ohh right, thought something wasn't right there. So it's workable then I take it?
<geser> yes, but ask the last uploader if he's working on it or not
<xteejx> Uploader? Daniel Holbach?
<geser> sorry, I meant the person who did the last changes
<xteejx> geser: no worries :) Ok I'll remove the comment since its out of date and contact the previous guy. Thanks again geser
<xteejx> :D
<huats> bdrung_, I have seen you were the last uploader of torbutton any reason why there is no binaries in lucid ?
<geser> huats: torbutton got removed from lucid: "unsuportable, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/FirefoxNewSupportModel/extension-list"
<huats> geser, ok thanks ! I have missed that
<trombonechamp_> How would one go about getting included in the ubuntu repos?
<MTecknology> If I know where a .deb is on http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/... then how can I grab the source and debdiff?
<trombonechamp_> Some rather crude .debs (made with python-stdeb)
<MTecknology> trombonechamp_: revu.ubuntuwire.com
<MTecknology> yay :D - Answered my question
<funkyHat> trombonechamp_: the ideal way to go about it would be to get included in Debian's repos, then the package will be automatically synced into Ubuntu in the next (or current) development cycle
<geser> MTecknology: dget the .dsc from that directory which matches the version of the deb you want
<trombonechamp_> funkyHat: What is the best way to go about that?
<dobey> hrmm, wonder what happened to fabrice_sp
<anoteng> any motu's willing to take a look at my package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/transgui bug #332067 I changed the package according to fabricesp's comments.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 332067 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] transmission-remote-gui" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/332067
<MTecknology> trombonechamp_: just on what funkyHat said - get something into debian through here - http://mentors.debian.net
<rbelem> anyone using cowbuilder?
<trombonechamp_> thanks MTecknology, that looks like what I need
<bhargav> clear
<bhargav> sorry my bad.. was about to type that in the terminal.
<MTecknology> what was the command to find what patching system is being used?
<MTecknology> found it - I kept thinking which-patch instead of what-patch
<evilshadeslayer> bhargav: hey any questions now?
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: unfortunatly I couldn't send the patch for steam to upstream, their bugtracker seems to be down - however I sent them an e-mail
<fabrice_sp> Hi BlackZ
<fabrice_sp> great: let's see what happens with this patch ;-)
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: check the bug report, I have marked it as "Triaged", for now
<fabrice_sp> it's a kind of borderline, as Debian don't have the problem and upstream could answer that it's not 'useful'
<fabrice_sp> oh, that's why I received an update of that bug report
 * fabrice_sp began to think that he didn't uploaded it
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: you received also why I added the bugwatch to the debian bug tracker :)
<fabrice_sp> great :-)
<dobey> james_w: still around?
<dobey> hi fabrice_sp
<james_w> hi dobey
<fabrice_sp> Hi dobey
<dobey> james_w: hey. the lucid bzr branch for ubuntuone-client seems to still be outdated? there was an SRU released last week. or do those end up in another branch somewhere, that i can't see? :)
<james_w> they are in the lucid-proposed or lucid-updates branch
<dobey> fabrice_sp: i replied to your comments on the mocker package. i really can't find a longer description anywhere. the description on the launchpad page is even less meaningful to random people :)
<dobey> james_w: lp:ubuntu/lucid-updates/ then?
<fabrice_sp> dobey, so just create one :-)
<dobey> fabrice_sp: i can't think of one either
<fabrice_sp> by the way, you know that you can (and probabaly should) submit your package to Debian too?
<dobey> find also includes linking in my brain
<james_w> dobey: yes, if it's in lucid-update
<james_w> s
<dobey> yes i know that. but trying to keep its exposure minimal, per upstream request
<dobey> james_w: ok, thanks
<fabrice_sp> dobey, about watch file: if there is no tarball, you should probably add a get-orig-source target in your rules file
<dobey> fabrice_sp: and just have it do bzr branch?
<fabrice_sp> create a tarball, as you need a tarball to upload it
<fabrice_sp> by the way, the PKG-INFO file contains the following description "Graceful platform for test doubles in Python (mocks, stubs, fakes, and dummies)."
<fabrice_sp> and to be honest, I don't even know what it is about :-)
<dobey> i made a tarball
<dobey> the orig.tar.gz is the tarball
<dobey> but i can't upload that as a release
<dobey> on the launchpad mocker page
<dobey> yes it does, and that is a very non-descript description :)
<fabrice_sp> I know, but we need some way to be able to recreate the tarball automatically
<dobey> and how exactly does that work for other packages which are just snapshots from git/svn/whatever?
<fabrice_sp> you can check aptoncd package
<fabrice_sp> this is how upstream works
<dobey> fabrice_sp: so aptoncd never actually makes relaeses?
<fabrice_sp> dobey, sorry: got distracted
<fabrice_sp> dobey, it had one a long time ago, and upstream decided to do next release after rewriting everything, and that never happened
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: you see atlas built in only 13 hours :)
<shadeslayer> hey if compiles http://packages.debian.org/sid/libyahoo2-11 fine on a maverick pbuilder can it be syncd to maverick repos?
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, the armel one? Great! :-)
<tumbleweed> yeah
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, if changes has been done in Ubuntu, you have to see what the change can be dropped
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: ah ok :)
 * fabrice_sp is glad that no armel buildd admin will wait for him in irc
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<fabrice_sp> so it's less that ghc6 :-)
<fabrice_sp> (34 hours)
<tumbleweed> heh
<dobey> fabrice_sp: it looks like aptoncd doesn't have a watch file or get-upstream-source rule in debian/rules :)
<fabrice_sp> dobey, it's get-orig-source. let me check :-)
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: ok ive had a look and all ubuntu changes can be dropped.. there was a build dep on dpatch in libyahoo2 which was required for a patch to fix FTBFS
<shadeslayer> now that it doesnt FTBFS we can drop it
<shadeslayer> also we have new deps from debian....
<dobey> fabrice_sp: ok, and it just does bzr --export
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: https://merges.ubuntu.com/liby/libyahoo2/REPORT
<fabrice_sp> dobey, yes: I had hard time to actually find the correct command :-)
<dobey> which is weird, because looking at that, it seems broken
<dobey> looks like it is using the previous version in the debian/changelog as the version, rather than what might be in the bzr tree
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, if so, then create the sync bug with requestsync
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: awesome :)
<fabrice_sp> and don't forget to explain why you think that the diff can be dropped
<fabrice_sp> dobey, only for the upstream version
<fabrice_sp> I may have hardcoded it though
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: any idea where pbuilder keeps build logs?
<dobey> yes, for the upstream version. but it may be incorrect
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: if you use pdebuild it logs to ..
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, IIRC, you have to specify it at build time
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: doh...
<fabrice_sp> dobey, you can submit a fix ;-)
<fabrice_sp> (to Debian, as I maintain the package there)
<dobey> fabrice_sp: but what about random snapshots that do have regular releases?
<fabrice_sp> dobey, in this case, you have to get the lastest release from launchpad
<NorthernLights> Hi there
<fabrice_sp> Hi NorthernLights
<NorthernLights> It's time for my daily poke for a review!
<NorthernLights> I saw you, fabrice_sp, had a look at it already, thanks. I uploaded a fix: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/killrogues
<dobey> fabrice_sp: how does that solve the problem when i want to ship a snapshot prior to the next release, though? uscan will still complain :)
<fabrice_sp> NorthernLights, I won't have time to havve a look at it today. maybe tomorrow
<NorthernLights> That's great, thanks.
<NorthernLights> I also commented on a few packages but had not so much answer, except for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gmail-notifier
<NorthernLights> Also i was reading docs about MOTU yesterday and was wondering: how much time does it eat you? Being a MOTU and a Debian dev
<fabrice_sp> dobey, yes, you're right, but as I saw that the stable version was in 2007, I thought that only bzr would be released :-)
<fabrice_sp> NorthernLights, it depends the time you want to spend :-)
<NorthernLights> fabrice_sp, for instance, you?
<fabrice_sp> NorthernLights, around 3 hours a day during the week, and very variable during the week end
<dobey> fabrice_sp: i will be poking upstream to get some new tarballs released in the coming weeks
<NorthernLights> 3 hours a day...
<fabrice_sp> dobey, cool :-)
<NorthernLights> sounds a lot to me
<fabrice_sp> NorthernLights, it's the time I want to dedicate to Ubuntu
<NorthernLights> right
<fabrice_sp> It could be less
<NorthernLights> almost a part time job though
<fabrice_sp> this is obviously added to my real job :-)
<NorthernLights> yes, big days
<fabrice_sp> (a 9 to 10 one)
<fabrice_sp> yes :-)
<fabrice_sp> 9 to 10 hours a day, I meant
<NorthernLights> yeah, big days!
<NorthernLights> For how long have you been doing it? (Ubuntu + Debian)
<fabrice_sp> I mostly spend my time sponsoring
<fabrice_sp> let me check my wiki page :-)
<dobey> fabrice_sp: so i guess uscan was just failing during the lucid cycle, for gnome-kerying for example, in the same manner, while there were snapshots of it being packaged
<NorthernLights> No bug triaging or package maintaining?
<NorthernLights> Yes i guess i could check it too
<dobey> fabrice_sp: actually, gnome-keyring still fails, because for some reason it is versionsed as "2.92.92.is.2.30.1"
<dobey> for the upstream version
<dobey> which is weird :)
<fabrice_sp> NorthernLights, Motu since 09/09 (and contributing since end of Intrepid cycle)
<fabrice_sp> dobey, yes :-)
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: bug 595224
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595224 in libyahoo2 (Ubuntu) "Please sync libyahoo2 from debian" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595224
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: build log is attached :)
<NorthernLights> wow, 9-10 hours a day of job, 3 hours of contributing, a wife and 2 kids. Do you ever sleep?
<dobey> fabrice_sp: so i guess the watch file isn't a big issue, unless there are never any more upstream release tarballs, in which case, it can be removed later and replaced with get-orig-source, no?
<shadeslayer> NorthernLights: thats the dedication MOTU look for :)
<fabrice_sp> NorthernLights, 6 hours of sleep, so I still have some free time ;-)
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, will have a look later (I broke BlackZ patch right now, so I have to fix it :-) )
<NorthernLights> :D
<shadeslayer> oh crap... i dropped the laptop :P
<NorthernLights> good job though, your wiki page is impressive; nice packages ther
<NorthernLights> e
<fabrice_sp> NorthernLights, this is what I prepared for applying to u-u-c and Motu
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: hehe :)
<fabrice_sp> it's easier to follow up what kind of stuff I did (and learned)
<fabrice_sp> I still discovered some bug I fixed one year ago, and I think "Wouah, I fixed that!" :-)
<NorthernLights> :p
<NorthernLights> oh, i had another question: how to link a LP bug to a Debian bug? (to link my needs-packaging to the Debian RFP)
<arand> NorthernLights: Use the "Also affects distribution" button and paste the BTS link
<NorthernLights> tx, gonna try that. i always clicked "also affects project", input "debian", was told "too many results"
<fabrice_sp> anybody knows how to put a multiline description in a DEP3 header?
<arand> fabrice_sp: Use indentation, or points: Good guidelines here: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<fabrice_sp> arand, I was looking for that pages. Thanks!
 * fabrice_sp should read the error message before asking :-)
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: how do you assign a bug in MoM ?
<shadeslayer> does it get picked up automatically?
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, there is an hidden field
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: where? i can only see the comment field
<NorthernLights> Also, I was wondering... how can you fix so many bugs in so many packages? Each time I look for a bug to try to fix, and find interesting ones, i feel to fix it would require such a perfect understanding of the packages software that you'd need to be its upstream author
<NorthernLights> (s/packages software/packaged software)
<shadeslayer> ah ok i needed #
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, I see you found it :-)
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: i knew about the comment field... just didnt know i had to put a # in front of bug number :P
<fabrice_sp> NorthernLights, most of the time, the patch already exists either upstream o in Debian
<NorthernLights> hm, right
<NorthernLights> gonna look for bugs:)
<shadeslayer> NorthernLights: or there is a patch attached :)
<fabrice_sp> good luck :-)
<shadeslayer> NorthernLights: also join the bug squad and some bug mailing lists
<NorthernLights> i thought i should actually fix something before, to see if i can actually do it
<bhargav> Should i keep kdiff3 in Section: devel or kde ?? in debian its in kde
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, you should have used the requestsync script :-D
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: 0_o
<fabrice_sp> bhargav, is it the only change?
<shadeslayer> ahhhh
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: will use next time... what info does it add?
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: it saves you effort
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: :P
<fabrice_sp> the script I uses fail to automatically check it
<bhargav> fabrice_sp http://pastebin.com/pdxiwrd5
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: want me to refile?
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, I mean there is a helper script for sync request ack that fails in this case
<shadeslayer> hmm
<fabrice_sp> if you don't mind: just copy/paste the description adn the title from the generated one
<shadeslayer> sure
<fabrice_sp> bhargav, the less derivation from Debian, the better
<fabrice_sp> especially if it's just to keep lintian happy :-)
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: updated bug 595224
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595224 in libyahoo2 (Ubuntu) "Sync libyahoo2 1.0.0-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595224
<bhargav> fabrice_sp, what about line 82 and 84
<shadeslayer> do i copy the changelogs as well? like in the report...
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, yes, please
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: fixed :)
<fabrice_sp> bhargav, I have no opinion on that. Maybe someone else have an opinion on that kde -> devel change
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, thanks. I'll check
<fabrice_sp> a bit later
<shadeslayer> sure
<bhargav> fabrice_sp, anyways thanks
<ari-tczew> MoM (merges.ubuntu.com) has very ardous bug. new available merge shows deprecated comment from old (previous) merge. this is misleading.
<Laney> I believe you can file a bug on lp/merge-o-matic
<ari-tczew> is anyone taking care about MoM yet?
<micahg> ari-tczew: not all comments will be deprecated by new uploads though
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, did you actually check the source code, to see if the patch was integrated?
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: well without the patch it caused FTBFS issues
<micahg> ari-tczew: maybe just a warning on top to make sure the bug is still valid before working on or disregarding a merge
<tumbleweed> yeah, it'd be sensible to expire comments that just mention a resolved bug
<shadeslayer> like the changelog says...
<fabrice_sp> Actually, there is an undocumented change. Did you checked it?
<micahg> tumbleweed: nope, that won't work either
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: where?
<fabrice_sp> http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/ubuntu/liby/libyahoo2/
<fabrice_sp> in debian/rules
<tumbleweed> micahg: even different bug fixed logo would make an enormous difference
<micahg> tumbleweed: for merge in progress that works, but not for blacklist
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: ill dget  the files.. hold one sec
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: in the ubuntu package?
<fabrice_sp> yep
<tumbleweed> micahg: oh yes
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, it seems the changed line is not there anymore, so it seems safe to sync
<ari-tczew> micahg: I don't know whether all comments are deprecated, but I see a lot of examples this issue
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: :)
<micahg> ari-tczew: indeed, if packages are on the blacklist are excluded from MoM and the bugs that are fix released are removed, I think we might be ok
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: the patch we introduced was to stop the package from failing to build from source
<ari-tczew> micahg: blacklist from MoM?
<shadeslayer> it was probably forwarded upstream....
<micahg> ari-tczew: blacklisted sync packages were excluded from MoM
<ari-tczew> micahg: I think you are wrong, because I see also comments like "done", when package is not merged - comment has been excavated from previous merge
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, or it's not required anymore because the aPI changed back to what is was :-)
<shadeslayer> :)
<micahg> ari-tczew: well, comments like that probably shouldn't be there in the first place IMHO
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, by the way, your email adress is not public ;-)
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: ??
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: on my LP page?
<ari-tczew> micahg: first place?
<fabrice_sp> yes, the ack-sync script sign the package with the email address, and in your case, it fails to get it
<micahg> ari-tczew: should not have been added at all
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: theres no option to set it as public :P
<shadeslayer> nvm
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: try now...
<fabrice_sp> too late: I manually acked the sync request
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<ari-tczew> micahg: so are you agree that this is a bug?
<micahg> ari-tczew: well, those are IMHO user errors :)
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: :P
<micahg> ari-tczew: maybe it should just be a field for bug #'s and not comments
<ari-tczew> micahg: so do you think that someone adds these comments by mistake? I don't think so...
<micahg> ari-tczew: no, but perhaps it's a process issue
<ari-tczew> micahg: IMO MoM not delete comments cache when package has been uploaded
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: what does the script you refer to do?
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, ack-sync
<micahg> ari-tczew: yes, but that doesn't always make the comment outdated, you need to address the blacklist issue as well
<fabrice_sp> shadeslayer, it makes the sponsoring of sync request easier
<shadeslayer> ok
<ari-tczew> micahg: we need a modern merges system management :-)
<micahg> ari-tczew: ok :), maybe speak with dholbach as I thought the new harvest would incorporate some of this
<ari-tczew> what do you think, can we reduce remaining merges to ~50 (50 in main and 50 in universe) before FeatureFreeze?
 * micahg will do his merges after getting upload rights (hopefully) at the beginning of the alpha3 cycle
 * micahg will do them even if he doesn't get the upload rights though :)
<ari-tczew> is micahg going to join MOTU?
<micahg> ari-tczew: no, I have my own package set :)
<micahg> ari-tczew: I'm working on the xulrunner rdepends and mozilla apps
<micahg> ari-tczew: I might go for MOTU next year
<ajmitch> morning
<dobey> hi ajmitch
<NorthernLights> evening
<ari-tczew> micahg: how many packages you'll got for upload rights?
<micahg> ari-tczew: about 40
<ari-tczew> :O
<ari-tczew> nice
<geser> Hi ajmitch
 * ajmitch would upload some packages if his laptop would stop fscking
<geser> upgrade to ext4
<ajmitch> I probably should, because this gets annoying just often enough to make me want to change it
<ari-tczew> ext4 sucks, I can't integrate ext4 in my WinXP
<chrisccoulson> micahg - is there anything else that needs to happen to get the packageset implemented btw?
<chrisccoulson> that's thefault of WinXP
<chrisccoulson> not ext4 ;)
<micahg> chrisccoulson: aside from cjwatson having time, not that I know of
<ari-tczew> only ext3 I can use by ifs driver
<cjwatson> nag me once every couple of days and I swear I'll do it
<cjwatson> hopefully tomorrow
<chrisccoulson> cjwatson - awesome, thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> and thanks micahg for organising this too ;)
<geser> cjwatson: you will do it just to stop chrisccoulson nagging you? :)
<chrisccoulson> lol, i don't really nag do i?
<cjwatson> geser: you'd be amazed at how much of my schedule is the desire for an easy life
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: does the sync script add stuff like XSBC maintainer by itself?
<sebner> shadeslayer: why do you need XSBC for a sync ;)
<shadeslayer> sebner: well for the control file.. i thought we need the XSBC field in control.. or do we not?
<sebner> shadeslayer: you know what a sync is, do you?
<sebner> shadeslayer: sync = packages taken 1:1 from debian
<sebner> shadeslayer: what you are talking about is a merge
<shadeslayer> sebner: ohhh... so we dont even change the package one bit? awesome ....
<sebner> shadeslayer: else we wouldn't be able to do auto-syncs
<shadeslayer> sebner: right!
<sebner> :)
 * shadeslayer sees another sync coming through
<shadeslayer> yep
<micahg> shadeslayer: only the maintainer filed is mangled in the buildds
<micahg> *field
<blueyed> Is there no backport of debootstrap yet? (for lucid)
<blueyed> This is required by mk-sbuild for example.
<EricBa> Hello, is there any motu who has some time to review my package? It's already reviewed by one motu. My programm is a wallpaper changer for gnome. - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/cortina
<SpamapS> hmm.. is REVU still the proper way to add packages?
<SpamapS> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pylibmc
<SpamapS> "Package is for "maverick" but only packages for "lucid" are currently accepted."
<ajmitch> it is, that's a mistake
<ajmitch> some issues are because it's hard to upgrade stuff on that server :)
<geser> it's better to get new packages into Debian so both Debian and Ubuntu benefit from it (and because we have a lack of reviewers)
<lifeless> geser: we can still review here
<micahg> geser: can only MOTU and core-dev review packages or any dev?
<ajmitch> micahg: anyone can leave comments, not everyone can advocate
 * ajmitch wonders if it's safe to change the default distribution in revu.cfg
<micahg> ajmitch: what about advocating?
<geser> I'm not sure about the current state of REVU: only MOTU and core-dev can advocate, but others can add comments too
<ajmitch> micahg: motu can advocate, not sure if it checks that team or ~ubuntu-dev
<ajmitch> package sets have made things complicated again :)
<ajmitch> or at least PPU
<SpamapS> geser: I've filed an ITP too, but I am not a debian developer and I'm not sure I'll be able to get it into debian in time for Alpha2. We're trying to get Maverick's memcache support much better. :)
<ajmitch> SpamapS: given that it's a python package, #debian-python on OFTC will probably welcome it as well
<ajmitch> whether you get it into debian or ubuntu first, that's still a good place to follow up on getting it sponsored :)
<ajmitch> actually...
<ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=556901
<ubottu> Debian bug 556901 in wnpp "ITP: python-pylibmc -- Python libmemcached wrapper" [Wishlist,Fixed]
<SpamapS> wha?
<ajmitch>  rmadison -udebian pylibmc pylibmc |      1.0-1 |      unstable | source
<ajmitch> looks to be there already
<SpamapS> hrm
<SpamapS> why didn't it show up in my searches
<geser> it "just" need syncing to maverick
<ajmitch> and 1.0-1 in maverick
<SpamapS> clint@ubuntu:~$ apt-cache search pylibmc
<SpamapS> clint@ubuntu:~$
<SpamapS> :(
<geser> oh, it's already synced
<SpamapS> 1.0 is really old
<SpamapS> like.. months. ;)
<geser> 1.0-1    release (universe)   30 hours ago
<ajmitch> yeah, 30 hours isn't long :)
<SpamapS> haha doh
<SpamapS> ok
<geser> and it's in the binary NEW queue
<SpamapS> hmm, I only looked in WNPP
<SpamapS> because 2 weeks ago I looked in packages and it wasn't there
<shadeslayer> geser: whats our policy on packages in debian experimental?:
<SpamapS> should have re-checked packages I guess. :-P
<shadeslayer> like can we sync/merge those?
<ajmitch> SpamapS: it was uploaded in december to debian
<SpamapS> ajmitch: I swear I didn't find it on packages.debian.org.. :-P
<SpamapS> bleh.. how embarassing
<ajmitch> just quietly close the debian ITP... :)
<SpamapS> I intend to
<geser> shadeslayer: you mean syncing from experimental? if you have a good reason for it, it can be done
<SpamapS> so if its been in debian unstable since dec why isn't it synced yet?
<ajmitch> SpamapS: it was just synced (30 hours ago)
<micahg> SpamapS: Lucid sync'd from testing
<shadeslayer> geser: hmm.. im asking because theres a new package called workbench that needs to be added to repos
<ajmitch> it wasn't automagically synced to maverick because new get checked over by archive admins at least a little bit
<SpamapS> micahg: ah
<geser> shadeslayer: if you have tested that the package works, that's a good enough reason to sync from experimental (it should be just something more than "experimental has a newer version")
<shadeslayer> geser: of course ;)
<shadeslayer> geser: the new mysql workbench replaces mysql query browser and administrator
<shadeslayer> and #debian-mentors says since the release is a RC it will go in experimental
<SpamapS> hrm.. so the problem with pylibmc 1.0 is that it doesn't work with libmemcached 0.40
<wtf1> what is partial upgrade?
<arand> wtf1: http://swiss.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1286309
<ubuntu147> arand:  i upgrade my system with this?
<micahg> !support | ubuntu147
<ubottu> ubuntu147: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Please be aware that this channel is for development only.
<ubuntu147> uh, ok
<ubuntu147> thnx
<shadeslayer> micahg: if suppose packaging copyright is held by a company and we package a new version for ubuntu ( not in the repo aka native package ),do we retain the copyright? and will it get past the upload queue
<lifeless> shadeslayer: as long as the *licence* you put on the copyright material is acceptable
<lifeless> shadeslayer: nothing (in terms of package uploads/inclusion) Ubuntu is affected by who holds the copyright, its *all* about the licensing
<shadeslayer> ah ok...
<shadeslayer> the debs released by the company are not in the repos were packaging a new version :)
<shadeslayer> for ubuntu + debian :)
<lifeless> cool
<eagles0513875> ya to replace EOL mysql-query-browser and mysql-admin
 * shadeslayer returns to merging ming32
<bdrung_> looking at mom, i see: If you are not the previous uploader, ask the previous uploader before doing the merge. This prevents two people from doing the same work.
<bdrung_> how far do we need to go? is it enough to check if the person is available on IRC and ask him/her?
<ajmitch> email might be nice, especially with some people not being on IRC at the same time as you
<bdrung_> ajmitch: and how long should someone wait for a response?
<ajmitch> I don't know, it may depend on how much work the merge is and how close to freeze time it is, or how active the previous merger has been lately
 * micahg would suggest 72 hrs
<shadeslayer> any sponsors around?
 * maco hides
<shadeslayer> maco: ah there you are :)
<shadeslayer> maco: just one sec..
<maco> were my ears stickin out? darn it
<shadeslayer> maco: :P
<bdrung_> maco: to avoid work: just be quiet. :P
<maco> bdrung_: yeah im just playing around since i was sponsoring for shadeslayer yesterday and was warned there were more to come
<ajmitch> maco: you can still run
<maco> heh
<maco> im assuming itll be kde extragear stuff
 * shadeslayer gets a rope :)
<bdrung_> ajmitch: micahg: it's not easy to evaluate how active the previous merger has been lately. it would be nice if there were a recommended way (for example how long you should wait)
<shadeslayer> maco: nah.. ming32 compiler this time :)
<shadeslayer> im just waiting for a fresh download of the package from debian..
<shadeslayer> i might have removed a patch in the debian package by mistake :P
<bdrung_> maco: can i ask you to do some sponsoring and warn you that more will come too?
<ajmitch> I doubt there's any agreed-upon time that you should wait
<ajmitch> though a day or two seems reasonable
 * ajmitch would just like to get the merge list cleared up a little
<maco> shadeslayer: awww i thought you were just gonna use me to improve the kde : not-kde ratio!
<shadeslayer> maco: hehe...
 * ajmitch does wish that MoM comments didn't stick around from one release to the next
<shadeslayer> maco: well ming32 helps in a way :P
<shadeslayer> you can use it to compile kde in windows ><
<shadeslayer> maco: can you dget this : http://packages.debian.org/sid/mingw32
<shadeslayer> ill post the changes the packaging in a short while
<bdrung_> who needs kde and/or windows? *gr&d*
 * bdrung_ is in the mood for making jokes.
<ajmitch> you'd better be careful
<maco> bdrung_: i made a sign that said "Kubuntu > Ubuntu" and put it on the wall above me when i was sitting in rick spencer / jfo / pgraner 's round table at SELF
<maco> it was just for rick though... the kernel folks dont care
<bdrung_> what's SELF?
<bdrung_> ajmitch: that's why i made clear that it was a joke (to avoid misunderstanding)
<shadeslayer> maco: apply this : http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=EkMmtdMt : on top of debian packaging
<maco> bdrung_: southeast linuxfest
<shadeslayer> maco: all info in changelog :)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-17
 * shadeslayer wonders if maco ran away
<micahg> ajmitch: bdrung_, well, I know there are times when I can't be at my computer for 72 hrs straight
<micahg> not often, but possible
<maco> shadeslayer: no was just chatting
<shadeslayer> maco: just kidding :P
<shadeslayer> im just testing out the package once again to see if it builds correctly
<bdrung_> micahg, ajmitch: we need a better policy or tools for that.
<micahg> bdrung_: actually, I would think 7 days isn't unreasonable, at the beginning of a cycle, 3 in the middle, 1 near the end
 * ajmitch generally prefers less policy, not more
<Laney> I don't think it needs to be formal
<Laney> just try to make contact and wait a reasonable amount of time to hear back
<ajmitch> common sense generally works
<micahg> +1
<shadeslayer> maco: yep builds perfectly
<micahg> Laney: ajmitch: bdrung_: maybe a note to come in here and ask if the contributor thinks they've waited a reasonable amount of time
<Laney> I'm not sure there's even a big problem to solve
<Laney> although I did notice that someone merged one of my TIL packages the other day without checking with me
<ajmitch> I don't think it was me :)
 * micahg almost had one sync'd w/out being asked (luckily I filed the bug shortly before :) )
<bdrung_> Laney, ajmitch, micahg: the word policy was too strong. having a recommendation or a usual way described would be nice.
<Laney> I thought that is what we have
 * bdrung_ had one package synced and wondered why his syncpackage script failed.
<micahg> bdrung_: yeah, it's on there, but people apparently don't read it :(
<ajmitch> micahg: of course not
<bdrung_> i would like to have a more verbose version of it.
<Laney> anyway it is actually only a recommendation, so you can't really complain so much
<Laney> we don't have maintainers after all ;)
<micahg> Laney: true, but the community is normally courteous
<bdrung_> it would be nice to have a way to specify your preference. for some package i want to be asked and for other package i don't care about it.
<Laney> No, you can't block others from working on a package
<Laney> if you want someone else to take your merge then just leave a comment on mom
<bdrung_> Laney: it was not meant to block other. i want to be ask for some package, because i work on them and want to avoid wasted time
<shadeslayer> maco: put a hold on the upload,i think i might be able to close bug 221979 with this upload
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221979 in mingw32 (Ubuntu) "Inconsistent snprintf format specification parsing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221979
<shadeslayer> the bug has a patch :P
<maco> shadeslayer: okie
<maco> shadeslayer: you an ubuntu member? if so, stash a source package's requisite files on your people.ubuntu.com and point me at it
<maco> shadeslayer: when you have it all ready i mean
<shadeslayer> maco: no :(
<shadeslayer> maco: ive applied for membership tho
<maco> which board?
<shadeslayer> maco: kubuntu council :)
<shadeslayer> maco: which is currently having its own reshuffling going on
<maco> ah right
<maco> i voted
<shadeslayer> maco: i didnt get the mail
<maco> shadeslayer: youre not a member yet
<shadeslayer> maco: ohhh....
<shadeslayer> right
<maco> dependency resolution... FAIL
<ajmitch> sigh, another udd import failure
<shadeslayer> maco: my patch?
<maco> shadeslayer: heh no
<shadeslayer> ah ok :P
<ajmitch> lifeless: is it worth filing bugs for these import failures, when a similar one is already there?
<maco> shadeslayer: the kubuntu member -- vote on --> kubuntu council -- vote on --> kubuntu member {REPEAT} thing
<shadeslayer> apparently that patch ( in the bug ) is pretty useless... theres no gdtoa dir
<shadeslayer> maco: ah.. circular deps :P
<maco> shadeslayer: yep
<lifeless> ajmitch: we want one bug per page like http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/sphinx.html#2010-04-04%2014:35:37.804150
 * shadeslayer wonders how it could be 5 AM so soon
<ajmitch> lifeless: ok, there's already one filed for a 'No such tag' error, so I'll leave it
<lifeless> ajmitch: me too it
<shadeslayer> maco: the pastebin i sent you is good to go ... i cant see where to apply this patch,nor the code which has to be patched
<ajmitch> done & commented
<shadeslayer> maco: wait!
<shadeslayer> i think i found the file :P
<maco> heh ok
 * maco waits
<shadeslayer> maco: how would one patch stuff inside a tarball? 0_o
<maco> shadeslayer: uhhhhh O_O
<maco> there's a tarball *inside* the .orig.tar.gz ??
<maco> doubly tar'd?
<ajmitch> you sound surprised at this
<shadeslayer> maco: no theres a tarball inside the untarred stuff
<maco> ajmitch: isnt that like....not allowed?
<shadeslayer> ajmitch: i was
<wgrant> It's stupid.
<wgrant> But not forbidden.
<ajmitch> maco: no, just annoying
<maco> wgrant: can we make it forbidden due to crossing the stupid threshold?
<micahg> was more of an issue before source format 3 and you could only upload .tar.gz
<ajmitch> cdbs even has explicit support for it
<micahg> s/3/3.0
<maco> see and this is why i cant be a core dev. these weird edge cases blow my mind too thoroughly
<shadeslayer> anyway to find a file and its path in a folder?
<ajmitch> wait until you try & read the cdbs code for fun
<micahg> maco: I just too a look inside the chromium tarball last night and there's a .tar.lzma archive in there and it's still 90MB
<micahg> *took
<shadeslayer> using commands
<ajmitch> shadeslayer: find /path -name *foobar*
<maco> shadeslayer: find
<shadeslayer> maco: bah release the beastie... i cant find any stuff to patch
<shadeslayer> ill mark the bug as incomplete
<maco> haha
<shadeslayer> maco: well its always better to be sure :)
<maco> shadeslayer: did you used to be trollslayer/
<maco> *?
<shadeslayer> nope
<maco> oh ok
<shadeslayer> been shadeslayer since i accidently wandered into #kubuntu :P
<shadeslayer> maco: im going to sleep.. my other account ( shadeslayer_ ) will still be active so please highlight that one and ill read the backlog :)
<maco> ok
<p3rror> hello
<p3rror> please where can i found jar binary
<anoteng> any motu's willing to take a look at my package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/transgui bug #332067 I changed the package according to fabricesp's comments.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 332067 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] transmission-remote-gui" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/332067
<fabrice_sp> anoteng, it still FTBFS. Did you built it with pbuilder/sbuild?
<dholbach> good morning
<bilalakhtar> Please merge. bug #595398
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595398 in acm (Ubuntu) "Please merge acm 5.0-27 (universe) from Debian testing" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595398
<bilalakhtar> Build for the merge succeeded. Someone, please upload merge for bug #595398
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595398 in acm (Ubuntu) "Please merge acm 5.0-27 (universe) from Debian testing" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595398
<bilalakhtar> nobawk: Hi there! bug #595398
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595398 in acm (Ubuntu) "Please merge acm 5.0-27 (universe) from Debian testing" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595398
<bilalakhtar> anyone?
<xteejx> Help! I keep getting dependency errors with pbuilder, e.g. Depends: libnet6-1.3-dev (>= 1:1.3.12) which is a virtual package. Why should that make a difference? Surely it'd normally just install the damn thing regardless
<xteejx> Do I need to change the control file to something like build-depends: libnet6-1.3-0 | libnet6-1.3-dev ??
<xteejx> obviously there are other deps ;)
<xteejx> BlackZ: ?? ^
<xteejx> anyone?
<geser> xteejx: do you have universe enabled in your pbuilder?
<xteejx> geser: I'll be honest I don't know
<geser> and no, you don't need to change the build-dependency
<geser> this error message is a common one if universe isn't enabled
<xteejx> is this the ~/.pbuilderrc thing?
<geser> yes
<xteejx> ahhhhh
<geser> the COMPONENTS one in the wiki page
<xteejx> geser: Got it! thanks geser...again!! hehe :)
<xteejx> geser: Quick Q - the autobuilders won't have a prob will they when this merges?
<soren> xteejx: Why do you say libnet6-1.3-dev is a virtual package?
<soren> I certainly see a libnet6-1.3-dev in the archive.
<xteejx> pbuilder said that, dont see why
<soren> Ah.
<geser> xteejx: no, the use the correct components when build for main (main only) or universe (main+universe) or multiverse (main+universe+multiverse)
<xteejx> I copied the components section from the wiki page, updating now
<xteejx> All working now, no more bitching about supposed virtual packages :D
<xteejx> thanks guys
<bilalakhtar> Hey motus, bug #595398
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595398 in acm (Ubuntu) "Please merge acm 5.0-27 (universe) from Debian testing" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595398
<xteejx> it's in progress
<xteejx> set it confirmed if you're done with it and subscirbe universe sponsors
<bilalakhtar> xteejx: I have done it, why confirmed? ok, I have subscribed both sponsors and universe-sponsors
<xteejx> well in progress means it's in progress, but if you've generated your debdiffs, etc then its no longer in progress... lol
<xteejx> motu say set confirmed since not everyone is able to set Triaged
<bilalakhtar> xteejx: I cat set it to Triaged.
<xteejx> hence "confirmed"
<bilalakhtar> xteejx: I don't know what to do in case of merge bugs
 * bilalakhtar reconsults the Triage Guide
<xteejx> you created 2 debdiffs between versions so you must have some idea what you're doing
<xteejx> and you can set Triaged status, you're bug control same as me
<bilalakhtar> xteejx: I know. This is the first merge I am working on
<xteejx> ohhh right I see
<xteejx> I tried acm but gave up, build problems
<xteejx> I'm learning to do merges myself so I'm probably not a great deal of help
<bilalakhtar> "Do not assign a bug to anyone if it needs sponsorship. "
<xteejx> no no never assign bugs, that's a general rule, even with bugsquad/control
<bilalakhtar> xteejx: Build failed once, then tried, there was a type. worked later.
<bilalakhtar> *typo
<xteejx> cool
<bilalakhtar> "The Status should be "Confirmed" for bugs that represent a new candidate revision (e.g. bugfix uploads, merges.) In other words, use Status "Confirmed" when you have uploaded a debdiff that requires attention from a sponsor. "
<xteejx> yup
<xteejx> It probably should be Triaged by our guidelines but I don't think motu have that ability, esp newer motus, so confirmed makes sense
<bilalakhtar> xteejx: I didn't read it anywhere, that we should mark such bugs as triaged. I can do it right away, as I am member of bugcontrol as well.
<xteejx> well if the motu page says confirmed, set it to that
<xteejx> *Generally* for triage it would be Triaged if you have all the information, but not in this case
<xteejx> that's what i meant
<bilalakhtar> ok, now, bug #595398 , any motu here?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595398 in acm (Ubuntu) "Please merge acm 5.0-27 (universe) from Debian testing" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595398
<bilalakhtar> wishlist and confirmed ^^
<BlackZ> bilalakhtar: subscribe ubuntu-sponsor and wait
<BlackZ> it's enough
<BlackZ> ubuntu-sponsors*
<xteejx> just wait DIF is a week away it'll be looked at long before then, you subscirbed u-u-s thats it for now
<bilalakhtar> thanks, BlackZ and xteejx
<BlackZ> bilalakhtar: and in the future don't subscribe U-U-S too
<BlackZ> U-S is enough
<bilalakhtar> BlackZ: ok
<xteejx> u-u-s is universe sponsors isn't it?
<bilalakhtar> DIF is coming ?
<BlackZ> since now we have the sponsor either for main and universe in U-S
<bilalakhtar> so soon ?
<xteejx> yup DIF one week today
<BlackZ> time for lunch, bye
<bilalakhtar> bye, BlackZ
<EricBa> Hello, is there a motu who has some time to review my package? It's already reviewed by one motu. My programm is a wallpaper changer for gnome. - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/cortina
<ari-tczew> please open a tasks on bug 464175
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 464175 in skyeye (Ubuntu) "Broken shared library dependency for skyeye in Karmic Koala" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/464175
<ari-tczew> and assign to me directly ^^
<ari-tczew> sponsors, please take a look on clementine player http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/clementine I'm using this package and it rulez! glad to see in universe
<ripps> In Maverick, why does amd64 have libvdpau-4.3 and i386 have libvdpau-4.5? The version differences are messing up my mplayer-build package.
<umang> ripps, I'm guessing this is it: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/libvdpau/+builds
<umang> ripps, or more specifically http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50307120/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.libvdpau_0.4-5_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz
<ripps> yeah, i see. It's waiting on ia32-libs
<BlackZ> kees: please, unsubscribe U-S-S in bug #595520 subscribed for wrong
<BlackZ> thanks!
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/595520)
<NorthernLights> Hello all
<NorthernLights> I'm packing this software whose only copyright line i could find in the source tarball is dated 2002-2007 although last commit was this month
<NorthernLights> should I just leave the debian/copyright with that date?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> (where that date == 2002-2007
<kees> BlackZ: unsubbed, thanks.
<ari-tczew> please open a tasks on bug 464175 and assign to me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 464175 in dspam (Ubuntu) "Please merge dspam 3.6.8-9.3 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/464175
<ari-tczew> err, wrong, bug 464175
<ari-tczew> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/skyeye/+bug/464175
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 464175 in skyeye (Ubuntu) "Broken shared library dependency for skyeye in Karmic Koala" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<shadeslayer> any sponsors around?
<lfaraone> shadeslayer: link?
<shadeslayer> lfaraone: um no bug link :)
<shadeslayer> lfaraone: just dget http://packages.debian.org/sid/mingw32 and apply this patch http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=EkMmtdMt
<shadeslayer> ( to the packaging folder )
<shadeslayer> lfaraone: or do you want me to file a bug ?
<lfaraone> shadeslayer: yes, please do.
<shadeslayer> lfaraone: ok and you would require a dediff right?
<lfaraone> shadeslayer: yes, or bzr branch.
<shadeslayer> lfaraone: ah ok...
<NorthernLights> I'm packing this software whose only copyright line i could find in the source tarball is dated 2002-2007 although last commit was this month. Should I just put these dates in the debian/copyright file?
<lfaraone> NorthernLights: Those lines are just a suggestion.
<lfaraone> NorthernLights: either way should be fine, but I'd lean towards "2002-2010"
<NorthernLights> hM, K
<NorthernLights> Hm, ok
<NorthernLights> i gess so too, thanks
 * bilalakhtar never thought merging could be so easy, thanks to MoM
<bilalakhtar> A small question: After I run the grab-merge, I get the mom@ubuntu.com address in changelog. Do I need to change that to mine, using dch ?
<bilalakhtar> yes, right ? ^^
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: of course you need to change it
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: yup, have been doing that. was just making sure if I was going on the right track
<bilalakhtar> How long does it take for a merge to be approved ?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: as long as any sponsor will poke your patch
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I have subscribed ubuntu-sponsors. DO I need to send request on some mailing list as well? or its enough?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: it's enough
<bilalakhtar> thanks ari-tczew
 * bilalakhtar continues merging :)
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: you're welcome
<bilalakhtar> well, now I have bug #595609
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595609 in filtergen (Ubuntu) "Please merge filtergen 0.12.4-5 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595609
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: possibly you can ask here for sponsorship, but be patient
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I was showing the bug to you.
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I can take a look, but now I'm eating
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: ok, sorry
<ari-tczew> wait 5 minutes
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: your second attached patch is wrong
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: please remove file debian/changelog.dch
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: oh
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I don't see a verbosity changes in debian/changelog
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: It is removed in the diff
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: it is correct
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: no, you wrote only: Merge from debian testing.
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: oh, you mean that? ok
<ari-tczew> the correct description is: Merge from debian testing, remaining changes:
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I got it.
<ari-tczew> and unstable instead testing
<ari-tczew> we are getting packages from testing during LTS development cycle only
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: please prepare a patch and put it into debian/patches/ instead changing source code manually
<ari-tczew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: That's what I thought of, But the debian maint has not done that. I thought it would be useless.
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: please use CDBS with Simple Patchsys
<ari-tczew> then you have to add information in debian/changelog, like: * Support simple-patchsys
<ScottK> ari-tczew: The general rule is to not add a patch system is Debian hasn't got one.
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: but the ubuntu version uses quilt
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I saw that developers from MOTU means something other
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: If it's got patch system in Ubuntu already, don't remove it.
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: I am not
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Why did you tell him to use CDBS simply patchsys?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: because it's easy to implement
<ScottK> But if the package already has quilt, then why?
<shadeslayer> lfaraone: bug 595633
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595633 in mingw32 (Ubuntu) "Please merge mingw32" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595633
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: Don't worry, I have used simple patchsys other packages as well.
<bilalakhtar> I have been packaging, merging, fixing bugs, etc from the last 2 months
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: If there's already a patch system, there's no reason to change.
<ScottK> Also, generally, quilt is better thought of than simple patchsys.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: $ what-patch: patchless?
<geser> is this about the filtergen merge?
<ari-tczew> geser: yes
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I'm going based on bilalakhtar saying it already had quilt.
<geser> filtergen doesn't depend on any patch-system
<geser> it patches the code directly
<geser> ari-tczew: and please don't instruct other to change the packaging system
<ari-tczew> geser: ok
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: thanks for the other advises anyway
<ari-tczew> geser, ScottK: I just wanted to help him, but it's turned against me as always
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I'm glad you're trying to help.  It's even OK if the help turns out to be wrong sometimes as long as you are open to feedback.
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: This is a problem for me as well. Many of my help attempts turn out to be against me. If you frequently visit #ubuntu-server, then you will know.
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I don't visit #ubuntu-server. For server sector my contribution is security patches btw.
<bilalakhtar> bye, guys
<smallfoot-> guys put Gloobus in the repository
<smallfoot-> okay?
<smallfoot-> and put nautilis-elementary simplified, and Elementary theme there
<smallfoot-> or im gonna fuck you up
<ScottK> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<ikonia> huh ?
<ikonia> smallfoot-: tone down the language and attitude please.
<ikonia> smallfoot-: have you made a request for this to be pacaged ?
<fbond> Hm, I shouldn't be an op...
<smallfoot-> yeah
<smallfoot-> there are requests
<smallfoot-> but nobody does shit about it
<tsimpson> ah ChanServ, how I love thou
<ikonia> very sad
<hyperair> tsimpson: thee.
<ikonia> if you can't communicate without swearing, I pity
<ikonia> I strongly suggest Gloobus doesn't get packaged now as punishment for such a rude request
<tsimpson> hyperair: looks too much like a typo, so I choose thou
<ikonia> request, nah, demand
<hyperair> tsimpson: poor excuse for grammatical errors ;-)
<ScottK> smallfoot-: We're all volunteers here, so you've got no right to insist anything.  If arrived with a pleasanter tone and a willingness to be part of the solution, someone would have almost certainly helped you figure out how to get what you want.
 * hyperair points out that "pleasanter" doesn't exist.
 * hyperair dons his grammar police hat
<micahg> ikonia: no point in punishing the community if the package actually has value
<ikonia> put authentication on the repos's so he can't have it ?
<micahg> ikonia: :)
<ikonia> see compromise is possible
<micahg> ikonia: add a fw rule to the archive :)
 * micahg realizes neither solution would be possible or even prevent acquisition of the package
<hyperair> there's a PPA for gloobus. someone should poke the owner of that PPA to submit it through revu
<sebner> hyperair: w00t, and ScottK is even native speaker. pleasanter definately looks like germanism :)
<ScottK> hyperair: more pleasant would be more correct, you are right.
<hyperair> sebner: Parse error at "native." Expected pronoun but found adjective.
<hyperair> ScottK: ^_^
<sebner> hyperair: w00t :P
<hyperair> er whoops, not pronoun. what was a/an called again?
 * hyperair segfaults
 * sebner prepares his rotten tomatoes once again
 * hyperair vanishes with a *poof*
<sebner> heh
<hyperair> only cherry tomatoes allowed!
<hyperair> *FRESH* cherry tomatoes.
<sebner> hyperair: biiiig, roooooootten tomatoes
<sebner> only the best for you :P
 * hyperair scuttles away in fright.
<sebner> ScottK: was that just a random mistake or is it common to use *not-so-correct* grammatics in the U, S and A?
<ScottK> sebner: Language use is generally pretty casual in the US.
<sebner> ScottK: I thought/heard so
<sebner> :)
<ScottK> I'm actually more careful than most.
<sebner> heh
<sebner> ScottK: sure, you are working with british english users (here) :P
<ScottK> Yes, but I've spent enough time around British English speakers that I can usually translate.
<hyperair> malaysia and singapore both use british english \o/
<sebner> I guess in whole europe you learn british english in schools, /here in Austria it's Oxford english to be precise
<imbrandon> afternoon all
<imbrandon> ScottK: rember me saying I got a position at a new ubuntu-ish company a few weeks ago ?
<ScottK> imbrandon: I do.
<imbrandon> ScottK: somehow we made slashdot today ( we as in the company ) http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/06/17/1929230/Bluecherry-Releases-GPLed-MPEG-4-Driver
<imbrandon> woot
<ScottK> Cool
<ScottK> I've been reading about that on planet.debian.
<imbrandon> cool, yea BenC made a few posts about it, because 99% of it ( driver and server ) are opensource
<micahg> imbrandon: friendly reminder :)
<EricBa> Hello, is there a motu who has some time to review my package? It's already reviewed by one motu. My programm is a wallpaper changer for gnome. - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/cortina
<imbrandon> micahg: ahh yes, i forgot, i will do it now
<micahg> imbrandon: thanks :)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: do you plan taking a sponsorship if you will come in MOTU?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-18
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: yeah, I plan to do some sponsorship
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I'm glad for hearing this
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: hard to know until one gets there, though
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hiya iulian
<jdong> imbrandon: Yeah my buddies and I were talking about it at work too! Congrats on the publicity!
<bilalakhtar> Hey there, I need immediate help. Please see comment 4 of bug #595450
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595450 in apt-cacher (Ubuntu) "Please merge apt-cacher 1.6.11 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595450
<bilalakhtar> Do I need to do what is said in point 1?
<bilalakhtar> I don't think so
<slytherin> bilalakhtar: What command did you use to build source package?
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: I used grab-merge
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: for building, I used debuild
<slytherin> bilalakhtar: yes, tell me exact debuild command you used.
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: debuild -S -sa
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: why should one care about that?
<slytherin> bilalakhtar: I now got what the reviewer meant. You need to add details of the Ubuntu changes being retained in debian/changelog. Just saying 'merge form debian' is not sufficient.
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: So isn't that mentioned in earlier entries?
<bilalakhtar> It is, right?
<bilalakhtar> I have done no change. I have reverted standards-version now as well. I am uploading the new debdiff
<slytherin> bilalakhtar: You need to carryover that in latest changelog entry.
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: but... See bug #595398
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595398 in acm (Ubuntu) "Please merge acm 5.0-27 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595398
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: and no one, AFAIK, does that
<geser> bilalakhtar: one should be able to know what changes are left by reading only your merge changelog entry (without the need to look at the previous ones)
<bilalakhtar> geser: you see http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50498114/debian-ubuntu.debdiff
<bilalakhtar> this is realted to bug #595566
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595566 in ktechlab (Ubuntu) "Please merge ketchlab 0.3.7-9 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595566
<slytherin> bilalakhtar: The usual practice is to include the changes in latest entry. It might have been missed in some merges but that is not a norm.
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: See, after the mom has done its work, it says
<bilalakhtar> Merge from debian (). Remaining changes:
<bilalakhtar> - SUMMARIZE HERE
<bilalakhtar> remaining word is there
<slytherin> bilalakhtar: Right. But you didn't summarize the changes in your changelog.
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: REMAINING changes
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: chanhges apart from merge
<slytherin> bilalakhtar: Which means the ubuntu specific changes that are still relevant and hence carried over. You have to specify them.
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: MERGE
<bilalakhtar> slytherin: ok, I am doing that change as well.
<bilalakhtar> ok?
<dobey> cjwatson: hey. sorry. i am an idiot. i just uploaded a fixed ubuntuone-client to lucid-proposed though. :)
<cjwatson> dobey: ok
<ari-tczew> is DebianImport working?
<fabrice_sp> !away > nobawk|away
<ubottu> nobawk|away, please see my private message
<dobey> fabrice_sp: hi
<dobey> fabrice_sp: i uploaded a new mocker package to revu to make the description longer, and changed it to just use pysupport
<fabrice_sp> dobey, ok. I'll have a look in a few minutes (I'm sponsoring debdiff right now)
<dobey> fabrice_sp: great, thanks :)
<fabrice_sp> by the way, revu is not like the archive: you don't have (and shouldn't) increase the version number at each upload:-)
<fabrice_sp> dobey, ^
<dobey> fabrice_sp: right. oh i guess it did, because dch -i does it automatically
<dobey> :-/
<fabrice_sp> don't worry: it's not a big deal
<dobey> yeah i know
<fabrice_sp> also no history: only one changelog entry
<fabrice_sp> (so dch only, without -i ;-) )
<dobey> yeah
<fabrice_sp> dobey, no get-orig-source?
<dobey> fabrice_sp: no. i thought we agreed on the compromise that uscan would fail now, given that it's a snapshot release, and there will be future tarball releases soon (which will make uscan work again)
<fabrice_sp> for future, yes, but I really would like to have a way to generate the actual tarball by my own ;-)
<fabrice_sp> it's really the only thing I can find, anyway, so i'll advocate it (I won't be the one that will upload it anyway)
 * dobey wonders how that argument fits with gnome-keyring :)
<fabrice_sp> ?
<fabrice_sp> sorry, I don't understand your point
<EricBa> Hello, is there a motu who has some time to review my package? It's already reviewed by one motu. My programm is a wallpaper changer for gnome. - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/cortina
<EricBa> It was already advocated by one reviewer.. so this won't take much time to review.
<dobey> fabrice_sp: oh sorry. uscan is currently failing in gnome-keyring because the versioning is all messed up for some reason, and it was shipping snapshots from git for a period during the lucid cycle
<ripps> FFMpeg is being held back by a bunch of packages, is this being worked on?
<ari-tczew> hmmm... what-patch script seems to be broken
<NorthernLights> Hi there
<arand> ari-tczew: In what way? (Works on 10.10 here)
<ari-tczew> arand: maverick
<NorthernLights> I've got 2 packages on REVU. They are killrogues and synergy-plus. Could someone check them? I'm eager to get them in the repos.
<NorthernLights> (especially synergy-plus)
<arand> ari-tczew: My vm is on v0.99 here and is seems to work fine, fails in which way?
<ari-tczew> arand: use in console: what-patch
<ari-tczew> heh
<ari-tczew> arand: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/4HyhnMjb
<arand> ari-tczew: A package using cdbs?
<ari-tczew> arand: seems such as cdbs
<ari-tczew> very lack in debian/rules :/
<arand> ari-tczew: ~$ apt-file search /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/pear.mk -> dh-make-php: /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/pear.mk
<ari-tczew> arand: have I to B-D on dh-make-php ?
<arand> Why what-patch would need I don't really know though... Is that part of a possible patching scheme?
<arand> Well, just installing it might do. I would assume this issue is isolated to this one weird package source though, if someone uses a standard patching scheme, it *should* work
<arand> ari-tczew: The rather unhelpful error message there might very well be considered a bug in what-patch though... (ubuntu-dev-tools is the one to report against, I guess)
<ari-tczew> arand: I'm preparing a security fix and package current now is FTBFS. first step I have to fix FTBFS
<arand> Which one?
<ari-tczew> arand: php-htmlpurifier
<ari-tczew> arand: install dh-make-php fixes the warnings in what-patch. I see that package is just B-D on dh-make-php, so I need to continue investigating...
<arand> Hmm, when I run what-patch on that I just get "patchless?"
<arand> And I do know that I do not have the file it complains about for you
<ari-tczew> arand: which file?
<ari-tczew> pear.mk?
<ari-tczew> possibly you've got installed dh-make-php
<arand> Yup
<arand> No I have not
<ari-tczew> heh, interesting
<ari-tczew> arand: ok, could you help me fix FTBFS?
<arand> Well I could try, be warned I'm just a happy amateur .
<arand> ari-tczew: It did build fine in my pbuilder... Is this arch-specific? Got a bug report?
<ari-tczew> arand: I forgotten talk you: I'm working on php-htmlpurifier from karmic
<arand> Ah, Karmic, I though it was Maverick ^_^
<ari-tczew> arand: I'm working on maverick, but I'm going to patch php-htmlpurifier from karmic
<arand> ari-tczew: So the ftbfs is on karmic? It does build for you on maverick?
<ari-tczew> arand: I use: sudo pbuilder-dist karmic *.dsc
<arand> ari-tczew: I Got some pbuilder setup to do..
<ari-tczew> arand: sudo pbuilder-dist karmic create
<arand> ari-tczew: Nah, I just fired up my karmic vm, but still need to add universe support etc.
<arand> *to the pbuilder I had setup there already..
<arand> ari-tczew: Hmm, so it tries to download something in the install process..?
<ari-tczew> arand: maybe
<arand> Err, the build process, rather..
<kklimonda> but it built succesfully on lp before - can you paste the log somewhere?
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php-htmlpurifier/3.3.0-1/+build/1035152
<arand> http://pastebin.org/339482 Is the relevant bit.
<kklimonda> hmm..
<ari-tczew> have got the same error
<kklimonda> /build/buildd/php5-5.2.10.dfsg.1/pear-build-download - it looks like something leaked from the build done on the ubuntu buildd and now it's breaking this build..
<ari-tczew> dunno, I'm upset
<kklimonda> bug 513765 and debian bug 546164 seem to be related
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 513765 in php-versioncontrol-svn (Ubuntu) "Sync php-versioncontrol-svn 0.3.3-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/513765
<ubottu> Debian bug 546164 in php-pear "pear download directory is inherited from the build" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/546164
<ari-tczew> security fix done, and at the end FTBFS
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: that's why fixing FTBFS is just as important as doing SRU and security work :)
<arand> Hehe, if you do run the build with sudo, it works >_<
<arand> "sudo debuild -b" that is :/
<kklimonda> arand: it probably creates /build/buildd/ itself?
<Laney> that's an rcbug in Debian
<Laney> haven't read the context, fyi
<ari-tczew> huh, lucid is build fine
<arand> Yup, it created /build on my machine.
<kklimonda> arand: it got fixed (or rather worked around) in 5.2.11.dsfg.1-1
<kklimonda> eh
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: ^
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: php-pear?
<kklimonda> yes (it's part of the php5 source package)
<arand> So, that patch needs to go in first I guess ...
<ari-tczew> arand: first we need to dig the patch
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: where did you see that it;s fixed in 5.2.11.dsfg.1-1?
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=546164#44
<ubottu> Debian bug 546164 in php-pear "pear download directory is inherited from the build" [Important,Open]
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: 44 comment says "Nah, it was not fixed."
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: "It stopped being an RC issue because the tmpdir path is
<kklimonda> now set to something under /tmp, which an unprivileged user can create."
<kklimonda> which is why I've called it a work-around
<ari-tczew> heh, but where is the patch?
<ari-tczew> maybe it's http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=546164#15
<ubottu> Debian bug 546164 in php-pear "pear download directory is inherited from the build" [Important,Open]
<kklimonda> nope, it doesn't seem to be this one (see the following comment)
<kklimonda> you'll probably have to do a debdiff between our version and 5.2.11.dsfg.1-1 and look for /tmp - maybe it's something obvious
<ari-tczew> f**king ftbfs...
<kklimonda> funny thing is it probably builds just fine in ppa and official builders because they use /build/buildd/ path..
<arand> I've been scanning the debian changelog, seems to be no mention there :(
<ari-tczew> +1 ^^
<ari-tczew> dunno, feel free to investigating the issue. today is friday, going out. have a nice weekend!
<philsf> hi, I'm trying to recompile evolution, to test a new patch from upstream, but the patches are not being included. I'm just using 'dpkg-buildpackage' from the source tree, should I be using another program, or some specific parameters instead?
<philsf> I don't see any mention to patches in the man
<arand> philsf: run "what-patch" in the source dir.
<arand> Should tell you which patch system is used
<philsf> arand, I'm getting this from dpkg-buildpackage:  Trying patch debian/patches/94_trash_folder_eds.patch at level 1 ... 0 ... 2 ... failure.
<philsf> (which is the name I chose for the upstream patch)
<arand> Ah, right then it finds it, but fails to apply it, then I tend to try patching manually and see which bits break..
<arand> SO which patch system does it use?
<philsf> cdbs
<philsf> it's probably made for a newer version that what's in lucid
<arand> Then it should be a simple matter of "cdbs-edit-patch 94_trash_folder_eds.patch" And then you 'll get a temporary patch editing directory.
<arand> Try to "patch p# < ~/yourpatch.patch" in there, which should result in rejects which you'll need to look at and resolve.
<arand> ( -p# matching your specific patch)
<philsf> arand, it already tried the patch in there, but the rejects seem to be the same as the diff itself
<philsf> also, all chunks failed :/ how am I supposed to know what are the correct lines?
<arand> philsf: Then start looking at the diff and the file it wants to patch, and figure out why it fails.
<philsf> hmm, upstream says it's commited to 2.31.4+, lucid evolution is 2.28*
<philsf> starting to look like a lot of effort for newbie me
<arand> Is the context in the diff correct, does it try to add on top of things that don't exist in the old version, etc...?
<arand> Solving a diff conflict could be everything from a walk in the park to impossible, since the things it changes aren't there in the first place and you'd need to add several patches in series to get it all working nicely...
<arand> Or, it's simply a missplaced whitespace :)
<philsf> oh boy
<philsf> oh, nevermind
 * philsf blushes
 * philsf was trying the e-d-s patch to the evo tree
<ripps> A couple packages (vlc, picard, gstreamer-ffmpeg, transcode) are holding back the ffmpeg upgrade. Do the packages just need to be rebuilt? or is it more complicated than that?
<ripps> In Maverick
<micahg> ripps: probably depends if the package itself needs adjustment for the new version of ffmpeg
<ripps> Is there anyway I can help?
<ripps> I can test builds in pbuilder if it will help
 * micahg would think local rebuilds and testing would help
<micahg> along with bugs filed with comments about what was done for the rebuilds (I know vlc already has a bug filed)
<ripps> I need to push a rebuild of mpd in mpd-trunk. That's also holding it back
<ripps> Hmm... it seems all the ffmpeg-0.6 packages aren't out yet. libavcodec-dev is still the svn snapshot from may
<ripps> actually, the more I look at it, it seems that only ffmpeg-extra is out. I wonder what's holding ffmpeg
<ripps> hmm... couldn't find libvpx... but it looks like it's in the repos.
<micahg> ripps: libvpx-dev is holding it back
<micahg> ripps: libvpx needs an MIR
 * micahg should look harder next time :)
<ripps> MIR?
<micahg> !mir | ripps
<ubottu> ripps: mir is Main Inclusion Report - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess for more information.
<ripps> ah
<ripps> So we're waiting on Canonical?
<micahg> ripps: no, anyone can file it
<micahg> ripps: I don't see one filed against the package
 * micahg looks harder for one
<micahg> ripps: you can file the MIR if you wish
<ripps> micahg: it's in the component-mismatch list
<micahg> ripps: the package?
<ripps> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt
<ripps> It seems it's automatically added when a main package fails to build from a missing dependency
<ripps> I suppose a MIR bug report might get people to hussle though
<micahg> ripps: ah, ok, but I think an MIR is still needed
<ripps> micahg: there, bug filed. let's hope it gets fixed soon
<micahg> ripps: did you actually go through the checklist?
<ripps> yeah, ubuntu-mir is subscribed to it
<micahg> ripps: I meant this checklist: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
<ripps> micahg: yeah, libvpx looks like it would be fine...
<ripps> I know the copyright in libvpx is complicated, but from what I've read, the latest revision of it from google should be gpl compatible
<ripps> meaning it should be able to be packaged in debian and debian-based distros
<ripps> Can someone who has an amd64 cpu pleas file an MIR for ia32-libs. It's dependency blocking libvdpau in maverick, which in turn is screwing with a bunch of media packages, like mplayer, from building correctly.
<shadeslayer> ripps: what does ia32-libs have to do with a amd64 CPU and bug filing?
<geser> it's pretty unlikely that ia32-libs gets moved to main
<ripps> geser: okay, than a better question is why does libvdpau require it?
<shadeslayer> well that too.. but what does it have to do with a amd64 cpu ? :P
<geser> ripps: don't know, didn't look at the packaging
<ripps> I have packages in one one of my ppa's failing because it can't pull the libvdpau dependency, because it ftbfs for amd64. Apparently because ia32-libs wasn't in main with it.
<shadeslayer> ripps: for maverick libvdpau1 is built... i just installed it
<ripps> shadeslayer: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libvdpau/0.4-5/+build/1790677
<shadeslayer> hmm.. i have 0.4-3
<ripps> yeah, that's the problem, it should be 0.4-5
<ripps> The package pulls the -dev for 0.4-5, but finds only 0.4-3 and fails
<shadeslayer> that means who ever packaged the vdpau library and/or filed a MIR for vdpau ignored the fact that ia32-libs was not in main...
<geser> ripps: check how the package has changed between the version in lucid and maverick and if it can be undone
<shadeslayer> geser: its a sync :P
<shadeslayer> ripps: try #ubuntu-x too
<geser> I see that Ubuntu-X is the bug contact for it, perhaps also ask in #ubuntu-x for input how to resolve this
<shadeslayer> geser: slow :P
<shadeslayer> ripps: is ia32-libs in debian main?
<geser> yes, but better don't look at the packaging
<shadeslayer> geser: hehe :)
<shadeslayer> geser: ok well theres the problem
<ripps> shadeslayer: well, it seems libvdpau changed alot since lucid. It used to depend on nvidia driver packages, now it's more independent
<ripps> Also, ia32-libs is in amd64/ia64 on debian stable/unstable/testing
<shadeslayer> geser: libvdpau is packaged for debian amd64 keeping in mind that ia32-libs is in main...
<shadeslayer> ripps: http://packages.debian.org/sid/ia32-libs
<geser> Debian main = Ubuntu main + Ubuntu universe
<shadeslayer> geser: yep...
<ripps> kinda complicated
<shadeslayer> geser: but ia32-libs is in universe in ubuntu :P
<shadeslayer> the sync should have been a merge :D
<shadeslayer> but then it wouldnt compile without ia32-libs....
<shadeslayer> geser: would it?
<ripps> is ia32-libs only needed for ia64?
<shadeslayer> ripps: just amd64
<shadeslayer> ripps: see the build deps.. its written ia32-libs [amd64]
<ripps> so... can ia32-libs be flagged for MIR?
<ScottK> No
<shadeslayer> ripps: it can,but like geser said... it wont get into main
<ripps> so, how to fix libvdpau?
<geser> unless the packaging of ia32-libs changed, it repackages the i386 debs for amd64, which isn't very liked by the security team
<shadeslayer> no idea here... might want to try to build without ia32-libs,but im not sure that it will compile
<ripps> Someone with a amd64 cpu should check whether ia32-libs can be worked around.
<shadeslayer> ripps: sure thing ...
<ripps> :0
<ripps> :)
<shadeslayer> ripps: its getting the deps...
<shadeslayer> maybe i should disable universe...
<ripps> lol
<shadeslayer> ripps: :P
<shadeslayer> ripps: build started
<shadeslayer> bah.. fails after 2 secs
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: what's the error?
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: http://pastebin.com/tALj4g76
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: come into #ubuntu-x
<BlackZ> shadeslayer: why? what's going there?
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: discussing the error with Sarvatt
<shadeslayer> BlackZ: basically libvdpau has a dep on ia32-libs which is in universe
<shadeslayer> which cannot be satisfied...
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-19
<ari-tczew> can someone take a look what happens with Debian Import?
<geser> what you mean?
<ari-tczew> geser: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/multidistrotools/universe.html#outdatedinB
<ari-tczew> packages from Debian are not coming
<geser> ari-tczew: Debian Import is only semi-automatic. An archive admin has to run a script for it.
<ari-tczew> geser: so who is responsible to this script?
<ari-tczew> any archive admin?
<geser> yes
<geser> or more precisely the archive admin of the day
<geser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration has the rotation
<ari-tczew> heh, not works on weekend
<dupondje> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pygobject/2.21.2-0ubuntu1/+build/1787577
<dupondje> can somebody check this
<dupondje> 'failed to upload'
<jpds> Hmm, odd. wgrant â.
<wgrant> jpds, dupondje: Ah, well, you see, this is what we call a rejection that makes absolutely no sense.
<wgrant> I suggest retrying the build.
<dupondje> I have no permission :)
<geser> dupondje: find a core-dev of your choice and let him give the package back to the buildd
<ari-tczew> dupondje: we need to finish prepare a fix for asterisk
<geser> or simply ignore the problem (as sparc is most likely to get abandoned for maverick)
<dupondje> i'll note it to seb128 when he's online :)
<dupondje> ari-tczew: ?
<ari-tczew> dupondje: do you forgot? you tried to fix security issue for asterisk in dapper
<dupondje> err right :)
<dupondje> had a buzzy week, my brain is in stand-by
<dupondje> :)
<dupondje> http://ubuntu.dupondje.be/asterisk3.debdiff this was the latest :p
<ari-tczew> dupondje: I know, I have this patch on my disk
<ari-tczew> we can continue review, but not now
<shadeslayer_> wow.. 14 hours of uptime and my mem is idling at a cool 1 GB.... go go maverick!
<shadeslayer_> most of it is xorg and quassel :P
<ari-tczew> why DebianImportFreeze is always before FeatureFreeze? can't we set DebianImportFreeze and FeatureFreeze in one time?
<Respawner> hello
<Respawner> I'm currently working on a package to have it reviewed and uploaded. But I do have a question. When using debuild, do I have to sign the source package or not?
<JontheEchidna> Respawner: Signing the source is required
<JontheEchidna> (for security purposes)
<Respawner> JontheEchidna: ok, thank you
<BlackZ> bdrung: it can be synced directly, see bug #596265
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 596265 in freemind (Ubuntu) "Please sync freemind 0.9.0~rc7+dfsg-1 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596265
<bdrung> BlackZ: done and marked the other two bugs as duplicates
<bdrung> BlackZ: you have my endorsement now
<BlackZ> bdrung: thanks!
<ScottK> Respawner: It's required to upload it.  If you are just using it locally, it doesn't need to be signed.
<ScottK> lucas: This coming Thursday is Debian Import Freeze for Maverick.  Doing a rebuild test next weekend would be a good time I think.  Would this be possible?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: thanks for very quick response!
<ScottK> I'd be really interested if someone can figure out the reason for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dnsruby/1.47-1/+build/1764845
<ScottK> The build-deps are perfectly installable in a local Maverick chroot.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: you're welcome.
<geser> ScottK: I wonder how you could resolve this as I can reproduce it. Digging a little more shows: ruby: Conflicts: rdoc
<ScottK> geser: Odd.  I just apt-get build-dep and it installed.
<geser> hmm
<ScottK> rdoc didn't get pulled in for my test.
<ScottK> So that would explain why it installed.
<geser> ruby provides also rdoc
<ScottK> Ah, so it's an install sequence issue.
<geser> apt-get -s build-dep works for my too
<geser> s/my/me/
<ScottK> Sounds like it's a matter of dropping the rdoc depends from pkg-ruby-tools.
<geser> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/rdoc
<geser> could perhaps also help
<ScottK> No doubt.
 * ScottK looks at lucas to find out if Debian is doing this transition too?
<geser> only rails, right-aws and right-http-connection have a versioned build-dependency. And rails is only an alternative
<geser> once the real deb "rdoc" is gone it should work
<ScottK> Nice.
<geser> it's similar to the texlive 2009 transition in lucid where a stale deb blocked some packages to build
 * ScottK wonders if there's an archive-admin with sufficient access around to kill it?
<ScottK> james_w maybe?
<geser> ScottK: I just confirmed that this would fix it. I edit the Packages file inside my pbuilder and droped the rdoc package and apt-get install the build-dependencies works again
<ScottK> Cool.
<ScottK> I'm fixing right-aws
<ScottK> Looking at right-http-connection too.
<ScottK> It makes sense then that the two problematic packages aren't in Debian.
<geser> I guess dropping the version from rdoc (make the build dependency unversioned) is enough as even dapper has a newer rdoc
<ScottK> Heh.  I didn't look at it that closely.  I just made them like rails.
<ScottK> geser: I filed a bug to ask for rdoc to be removed.  Thanks again for your analysis.
<ari-tczew> geser: you aren't a core developer?
<geser> ari-tczew: nope, only MOTU
<ari-tczew> geser: heh, I'm amazed, because I think that you're in DMB and you've a large knowledge
<sebner> ari-tczew: he is just too lazy to apply :P
 * sebner waves at geser :)
<ari-tczew> sebner: I think that it would be nice if I'll block some requests on you
 * ScottK notes to sebner that there is precedent for filing a core-dev application on behalf of someone else.
<sebner> ari-tczew: hmm?
<sebner> ScottK: hahaha :D
<ScottK> No.  It's true.
<sebner> ScottK: really? O_o
<ScottK> Yes.  That's how Hobbsee got core-dev.
 * geser waves back at sebner
<sebner> ScottK: well, you can't do anything as long as the person in question is strictly against it though I think?! You can force anything over someone
<ari-tczew> sebner: you've only 1 bug sponsored for me. I think that number should grow
<ScottK> No, but you can solve the lack of motivation to fill out the application problem.
<sebner> ScottK: ah, good point
<sebner> geser: are you too lazy? :P
<sebner> ari-tczew: ah, heh. maybe ;D
<ari-tczew> sebner: one merge is remaining to universe. are you interested?
<sebner> ari-tczew: hmm, why not. link
<geser> ari-tczew: there is no requirement for being a core-dev for being in the DMB; and having a certain level of knowledge doesn't force you to core-dev
<sebner> ScottK: speaking about motivation, remember the core-dev application of sistpoty? ;)
<ScottK> Yes.
<geser> sebner: no, it's just that I don't see the need for myself for being a core-dev. For the occasional uploads to main I do, sponsoring is enough.
<sebner> heh
<sebner> That's it, it seems :)
<ari-tczew> sebner: can you wait 5 minutes? I have to update description in patch
<sebner> ari-tczew: sure, I can't promise I'll look at it right now anyways
<sebner> ScottK: speaking about Hobbsee, has she disappeared? :(
<sebner> ScottK: wow, that was pretty bad englisch but you understand it anyways :P
<ScottK> sebner: Consult the channel Nick list.
<ari-tczew> her english wasn't good enough?
<sebner> ScottK: well, haven't seen any activity/uploads from her and besides,  [Hobbsee] idle 199:13:59 ..
<ScottK> sebner: So she's around, just quiet.
<sebner> ari-tczew: nah, I wrote "has she disappeared" instead of "did she disappear"
<geser> sebner: do you miss the LPSODâ¢?
<sebner> geser: definately :)
<ScottK> ari-tczew: The comment was on the quality of sebner's own English.
<ari-tczew> aha ok
<sebner> ScottK: well, being around means something different /here imho
<ScottK> She does speak every now and then.
<sebner> ScottK: oh, Ic. thx for the info
<ari-tczew> I ask of english level, because I want to know what about of my english level
<ari-tczew> it's good or not good
<sebner> ari-tczew: no problems so far imho
<sebner> geser: was it you who wrote there is a lack of LPSOD some days ago? :)
<geser> sebner: no, I didn't try to summon the LPSOD for a very long time
<geser> ari-tczew: it's good enough that I don't have any problems to understand you
<ari-tczew> hehe, well, I'm glad, because my comments on my application says, that I have more problems with english than packaging skill :P
<sebner> hohohoho
<sebner> Jun 15 14:01:52 *	ScottK finds an insufficiency of longpointysticksofdoom lately.
<sebner> logs ftw! :)
<coolbhavi> hi after installing the latest perl I get the following output E:Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.' on sudo apt-get install -f
<ari-tczew> hi coolbhavi, nice to meet you on IRC
<coolbhavi> hi ari-tczew
<coolbhavi> got it resolved through aptitude -f
<ari-tczew> slangasek: why did you merge iputils, ignoring my patch?
<ari-tczew> it's not fair
<ari-tczew> 2010-06-07  	core branches  	merge-lp-591029  	 	iputils  	 	 	 	lp:~ari-tczew/ubuntu/maverick/iputils/merge-lp-591029
<ari-tczew> sebner: sorry, but now my patch now is useless ^^
<sebner> heh, kk
<sebner> ari-tczew: I'm avoiding branches till maverick+1 anyways :P
<ari-tczew> sebner: I don't understand, why?
<sebner> ari-tczew: still not working 100%, besides I have to make changes, then push, then debuild and upload to ubuntu. Still too troublesome for me
 * geser warns of opening the buildlog for https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozart/1.4.0-5build1/+build/1776421
<ScottK> geser: sparc is about to go away.  Don't waste your time with it anyway.
<geser> I just noticed earlier that artigas (sparc buildd) seemed to got stuck on this build. And wondered now about the build log as I saw that it's building an other package again.
<sebner> geser: woo, firefox froze xD
<geser> sebner: I warned you :D
<sebner> geser: It would be the same if you told me: "no sweets before meal" :P
<geser> sebner: it's a 278MB build log compressed to 309 kB
<sebner> geser: that's a nice compression algorythm then :D
<geser> gzip :) but highly redundant data
<sebner> heh, true
<geser> ScottK: I know, I wait on wgrant updating qa.ubuntuwire.org so he can merge my branch for the FTBFS page dropping sparc
<ScottK> Oh, right. I forgot it was you that had done that.
<t0bias> hi everybody. my name is tobias and i would like to upload one of my applications to ppa, but so far i didn't figure out the proper way to package a qt-application (that obviously comes without a "configure"-script and no "make install" target). is there any documentation on how to correctly package a qt-application for ubuntu?
<ScottK> t0bias: PPA packaging is better discussed in #ubuntu-packaging
<t0bias> oh, ok, thank you!
<BlackZ> ScottK: if a comment in the debian/changelog file is broken (I can't find the changes in the ubuntu package merging) I should drop it, shouldn't I?
<slangasek> ari-tczew: hrm, apparently because I failed to check the bug list for that package before working on it - sorry
<slangasek> ari-tczew: for some reason the bug page also doesn't show me a link to your branch?
<slangasek> er; because you've deleted the branch, I guess?
<slangasek> ari-tczew: I would be happy to review and merge your branch in place of mine if you want to re-publish it
<ari-tczew> slangasek: I've deleted the branch, because today I've updated the patch description
<ari-tczew> slangasek: so do I need to reupload and you'll merge it?
<slangasek> if you reupload it, I can merge it, yes
<ari-tczew> ok
<ari-tczew> wait 5 minur
<ari-tczew> minutes
<ari-tczew> slangasek: I prefer to use bzr as you saw, but what I can to do it, if you've uploaded your changes?
<ari-tczew> use debdiff instead bzr?
<slangasek> ari-tczew: I can uncommit the changes from bzr
<ari-tczew> slangasek: so what we will deal with it?
<ari-tczew> s/what/how
<slangasek> bzr please
<slangasek> just publish a branch based on revision 14 of the package branch
<slangasek> or 15, if you're satisfied with the upstream merge and don't want to redo it :)
<ari-tczew> slangasek: hmm, what do you think if I'll use my debian/changelog and patch for typo based on 18 revision?
<slangasek> ari-tczew: that's also ok
<ari-tczew> nice! then uploading
<ari-tczew> slangasek: done
<slangasek> ari-tczew: and package uploaded - thanks!
<ari-tczew> slangasek: thanks also!
 * slangasek goes back to ripping dpatch out of aptitude
<ali1234> does anyone know what prevents nspluginwrapper 1.2 from being backported to hardy? (it has been backported everywhere else)
<mmc> let's say there is a standard package  P, and I have a patched version of it, with added features. And then I have a package B which uses some added feature of that P.  Is there any way to express this dependency, using suitable  versions.  I want to avoid binding B to exact version of P. I would like to be able to upgrade (my patched) P without releasing B just to change the = dependency.
<Bachstelze> mmc: maybe make a P-patched package instead of changing P's version number?
<Bachstelze> and make P-patched Replace P, so that it will (I think) be automatically installed instead of P when someone wants to install B
<shadeslayer> quick question,can we rename upstream tarballs?
<Bachstelze> shadeslayer: yes, but only if you really can't do otherwise
<Bachstelze> actually
<Bachstelze> you *have* to rename it to add orig.tar.gz anyway
<Bachstelze> so more specifics, maybe?
<rehan> Dear all how 2 install yahoo messanger
<Bachstelze> rehan: this is not really the place to ask this, try #ubuntu :)
<shadeslayer> Bachstelze: also upstream ships the source with their own debian/ can i safely delete it and start over as this will be a new package in the archives?
<Bachstelze> shadeslayer: in this case it's recommended to first talk to upstream and see if they could remove the debian/ dir from their tarball
<Bachstelze> ptherwise you can move it away with get-orig-source I think, no need to repack it
<shadeslayer> is there a procedure of sorts to get new packages into ubuntu universe?
<arand> !newpackage | shadeslayer I guess here
<ubottu> shadeslayer I guess here: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<shadeslayer> ok found it via google ;)
 * shadeslayer wonders if someone is in the mood to advocate a revu package
<shadeslayer> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=8319
<shadeslayer> apparle: \o
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-20
<drizzt_> why package maintainers never update translations? even there was no release in last years, somebody could contribute new or updated translations, but they are never checked for nor updated in package
<micahg> drizzt_: probably depends how the translations are packaged
<micahg> drizzt_: what package?
<drizzt_> *most* universe packages have missing or outdated translations comparing to project's trunk or whichever upstream it use
<micahg> drizzt_: are upstream packaging the translations in the tarballs?
<drizzt_> usually they do not backport translations to the release version packaged in Ubuntu, but they usually include it in trunk or recent development version
<micahg> drizzt_: well, we take the versions in the release we package generally
<micahg> drizzt_: and universe is community maintained, so if there's a package that you'd like to have a new version, you can work on it
<anoteng> I've got two packages I'd like to have reviewed by a motu. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/python-easygui bug #596406, and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/transgui bug #332067
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 596406 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] EasyGUI" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 332067 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] transmission-remote-gui" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/332067
<ScottK> anoteng: For python-easygui, you might consider packaging it for Debian and having it sync'ed into Ubuntu.  The Debian Python Modules Team is very open to Ubuntu people and sponsoring new Python packages.  See #debian-python on OFTC network.
<ScottK> Honestly your odds are better there.
<anoteng> ScottK, I'm already looking into it, thanks. I'd still like a review though, as I'm kind of new to this, and probably did something wrong...
<ScottK> They don't expect you to be an expert when you show up there, so no need to wait.
<ScottK> You'll get more and better reviews there.
<ScottK> We get hugely more package requests than we can review each cycle.
<anoteng> ok, thanks.
<dupondje> How can I upgrade a package to the newest upstream version? The package is not in debian (so no merge/sync)
<micahg> dupondje: is there a watch file?
<jmarsden> dupondje: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Updating%20an%20Ubuntu%20Package for the basic idea.
<dupondje> http://ubuntu.dupondje.be/pybootchartgui.debdiff
<dupondje> it looks ok ?
<micahg> dupondje: you might want to ask the maintainer
<BlackZ> zul: could you please take a look at bug #595520 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595520 in dspam (Ubuntu) "Please merge dspam 3.6.8-9.3 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595520
<dupondje> micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pybootchartgui/+bug/596475
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 596475 in pybootchartgui (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to upstream version r141" [Undecided,New]
<dupondje> and subscribed the maintainer :)
<micahg> dupondje: k
<dupondje> can you set it to Wishlist btw ?
<micahg> dupondje: sure
<BlackZ> dupondje: why is it '0+r141' rather than '0+r141ubuntu1' ?
<micahg> BlackZ: native Ubuntu package
<BlackZ> ah, true
<BlackZ> micahg: good luck for the DMB :P
<micahg> BlackZ: thanks :)
<micahg> BlackZ: you too
<BlackZ> micahg: heh, thanks!
<riccetn> Is there any MOTU that can review my package of clementine (Music player): http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/clementine
 * drizzt_ thinks that we have enough gstreamer-based music players already
<ari-tczew> please unsubscribe ubuntu-sponsors from bug 582576
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 582576 in php-htmlpurifier (Ubuntu Karmic) "XSS in HTML purifier 3.0.0 and 4.0.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582576
<ari-tczew> can someone tell me whether it's necessary change: Update Maintainer field as per spec  ? bug 230350 for example
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230350 in sapphire (Ubuntu) "Missing Debian Maintainer field" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230350
<sebner> ari-tczew: unsubscribed
<sebner> ari-tczew: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<ari-tczew> sebner: thanks for unsubscribe. and what about this maintainer field?
<sebner> ari-tczew: I thought that would answer your question if it's necessary to change the maintainer field
<ari-tczew> sebner: I asked whether it's necessary
<sebner> ari-tczew: well, as the wiki page suggests, every time you modify a debian package that was unchanged before, you have to update the maintainer field
<ari-tczew> if there is no delta, package is synced from Debian, so don't change maintainer field
<ari-tczew> sebner: still don't understand.
<sebner> ari-tczew: right, I don't understand what you don't understand ^^
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: if you modify the package, you update-maintainer. If you sync, the maintainer update is done automatically, on build.
<tumbleweed> (and I can't see https://launchpad.net/bugs/230350 due to lp timeouts)
<ari-tczew> sebner, tumbleweed: sorry bugs, I have you wrong bug number. let
<ari-tczew> let check bug 300858
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300858 in hp-ppd (Ubuntu) "Please merge hp-ppd 0.9-0.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300858
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230350 in sapphire (Ubuntu) "Missing Debian Maintainer field" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: what's the problem there?
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: no need to mention maintainer update in changelog
<ari-tczew> yea
<tumbleweed> (also, that bug's description could use an update)
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: I think that's not a big deal
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: not at all
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: and bug number in debian/changelog is wrong
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: as you can see, it's a merged change
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: however, you didn't close LP: #300858
<BlackZ> forgot about that, sorry
<ari-tczew> :]
<ari-tczew> please check package https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mtx/1.3.12-3ubuntu1
<tumbleweed> yeah, mom should add some boilerplate for closing the merge bug (although I guess people would forget to fill it out)
<ari-tczew> Remaining changes: update maintainer according to spec.
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: it's not a big deal, as I said
<ari-tczew> I think that it's wrong
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: what do you mean "not a big deal" ?
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: it's not so wrong
<ari-tczew> I don't understand a remaining change as update maintainer field
<BlackZ> if I found it in the changelog I'd merge it
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I agree, that could have been a sync.
<tumbleweed> there are some other minor changes, though
<BlackZ> but as tumbleweed as said, it could be a merge if there aren't other changes
<ari-tczew> zul: ping for above case ^^
<BlackZ> s/as/has
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: it can't be synced now. ubuntu has never version than debian
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I know. I want to talk zul for now merging this package due to update maintainer field
<ari-tczew> in future
<ari-tczew> s/now/not
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: "it could be a merge if there aren't other changes" what you mean?
<ari-tczew> maybe sync instead merge?
<BlackZ> s/merge/sync
<ari-tczew> :]
<BlackZ> however in my case the sponsor could modify the changelog for remove that if it's considered "wrong" :)
<dupondje> tons of merge/sync requests it seems in the MoM :)
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: +1. he should upload next XubuntuY with information, that package doesn't need to be merged. no delta
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: the description was changed - there is a delta
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: question of importance of description
<ari-tczew> and why he doesn't include information about it in debian/changelog
<tumbleweed> :)
<ari-tczew> omg, what a mess https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ilohamail/0.8.14-0rc3ubuntu4
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: fixed, thank you
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: um, is it just me or has debian fixed your hp-ppd issue? (They run that script with bash)
<BlackZ> no tumbleweed, seems it's not fixed at all
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: ok how about "it builds fine for me on maverick"
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: doesn't it?
<tumbleweed> no I'm saying it does
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: ah, ok
<tumbleweed> ubuntu's solution was to remove bashisms, debian's was to run "bash install.sh"
<tumbleweed> looks syncable to me
<BlackZ> tumbleweed: in case I will follow up the bug
<ari-tczew> NCommander: why did you upload package in version ubuntu4? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ilohamail/0.8.14-0rc3ubuntu4
<ari-tczew> ah, previous package uploaded in ubuntu3, then you removed old ubuntuX
<ari-tczew> sebner: could you take sponsorship for me @ bug 596577 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 596577 in ilohamail (Ubuntu) "Merge ilohamail 0.8.14-0rc3sid6.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596577
<ScottK> statik: You've got a couple of python packages sitting on REVU for almost a year.  Are you still interested in them?
<ari-tczew> james_w: why package pyexiv2 doesn't have created branch? https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyexiv2
<slytherin> Now that we support 3.0 formats, we should ideally switch to .orig.tar.bz2 if upstream releases bz2, right? After all every byte of saved storage space counts.
<micahg> slytherin: usually, depends if backports lower than lucid are needed
<micahg> *archive backports/updates
<slytherin> The package in question is gstreamer plugins package. I don't think they are backported frequently.
<micahg> slytherin: sounds right
<shadeslayer_> any MOTU around to review my REVU upload?
<shadeslayer_> hi any MOTU to advocate my package here : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=8319
<NorthernLights> Hello all
<NorthernLights> Hello all
 * NorthernLights is poking for a check of REVU packages synergy-plus and killrogues
<tumbleweed> NorthernLights: hi. I (stefanor) was just commenting on your synergy-plus package. Looks good to me. But I'd liek to see it in Debian too :)
 * tumbleweed uses synergy between debian and Ubuntu
<NorthernLights> Hi there
<NorthernLights> Sure, as I was answering on launchpad, i want to do this too. I was waiting to get into Ubuntu first, to avoid having to ask twice as much to review my package.
<NorthernLights> And I'd like to give the Ubuntu process a chance
<shadeslayer_> NorthernLights: could you please check my package too? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=8319
<NorthernLights> ok
<shadeslayer_> thanks :)
<shadeslayer_> NorthernLights: ok ill clean that up :)
<shadeslayer_> i did put the section as net,then checked p.u.c and saw it was network.. so changed it
<shadeslayer_> NorthernLights: also if upstream doesnt ship with a copy right year,do i put in this year?
<ScottK> shadeslayer_: Just copy/paste was upstream shipped.
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer_: stefanor is me, not NorthernLights :)
<shadeslayer_> ohhh
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: :P
<NorthernLights> aaaah ok! Thanks, i was wondering if i pushed the submit button by mistake
<shadeslayer_> hehe :)
<shadeslayer_> tumbleweed: does : You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
<shadeslayer_>     along with QIpMsg. If not, see "/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-3". sound ok?
<tumbleweed> fine fine
<shadeslayer_> ok fixed most stuff ... will make the rules changes later ....
<shadeslayer_> ciao :)
<NorthernLights> shadeslayer_, i'm adding a comment too
<NorthernLights> (basically, "run lintian :)")
<NorthernLights> (i'm building the binary package to make sure it works)
<ari-tczew> lool: check your e-mail's inbox. libsmbios's maintainer has Cced message to you about libsmbios package handling
<sebner> ari-tczew: well, either you wait until wednesday (quite some stuff to do for university) or you ask someone else aka just wait for someone to sponsor it, and it's a bzw branch too .. brrrr :P
<ari-tczew> sebner: sorry, I forgot about your issue
<ari-tczew> sebner: I want to see grow of bug numbers sponsored. besides you I'm going block some bugs on 2 other sponsors
<ari-tczew> sebner: maybe you should take some lessons about bzr sponsoring?
<sebner> ari-tczew: bah let me push that back for maverick +1 :P
<ari-tczew> sebner: why +1?
<ari-tczew> instead maverick 0 :d
<sebner> ari-tczew: well, DIF is around and I think bzr sponsoring will become more stable and more common for maverick+1
<micahg> ari-tczew: people have limited time, I had a great idea I ran a session for at UDS that I have to push off till maverick +1
 * sebner ^5 micahg 
<ari-tczew> micahg: so you won't work anymore in maverick+1? correct translated?
<sebner> ari-tczew: deal: I sponsor your non-bzr stuff and I might get into this bzr stuff in my summer holidays
<micahg> ari-tczew: no, I just have my own list of things, so this other one has to wait
<ari-tczew> sebner: I think that you can download a bzr diff from bug and patch -p1 it on current ubuntu's package
<sebner> ari-tczew: I could but that goes against the sense of having a bzr branch and do bzr sponsoring ;)
<ari-tczew> sebner: so do you will sponsor it only by debdiff and soon in wednesday?
<sebner> ari-tczew: well, keep ubuntu sponsors subscribed and if nobody has sponsored it until then I'll do it
<ari-tczew> sebner: ok I'll talk with other sponsors who has not enough sponsored bugs for me
<sebner> ari-tczew: so I guess you won't apply tomorrow? (You once told me something about the 22th)
<ari-tczew> sebner: no, later
<ari-tczew> sebner: not ready now
<sebner> kk
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-13
<jv13613> Hi all. I would like to help with the development of ubuntu, but I do not know how to program. I was thinking that I could take approved and reviewed patches, and make a branch with the patch applied, then upload it to launchpad and ask for a merge proposal. Do you think I would be able to do such a thing? I do not mind build and testing the packages. Like I said I do not know hot to program but I know a great deal about compute
<directhex> jv13613: i'm not sure that would be worth your time, as i think tools automate that process. bug triage in general is useful though
<SpamapS> jv13613: Indeed, if you don't have programming skills, but are a "power user", you can sift through bug reports and help confirm new ones, and find duplicates...
<SpamapS> jv13613: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage/
<jv13613> @directhex and @SpamapS thank you
<jv13613> @directhex in launchpad I see bugs that have patches but are not linked to any branches. Why is that? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit
<SpamapS> jv13613: the process is not, in fact automated. However, its more important that the *patch* is reviewed than that the patch is packaged.
<SpamapS> jv13613: there's no sense packaging a patch which is not suitable for all users of the intended package.
<jv13613> oh ok nbow I understand. Is there a need for packaging of accepted patches?
<SpamapS> honestly, no. the patches will get packaged once the bug is fully triaged and ready for fixing/upload
<SpamapS> Taking bugs from New -> something else status is really helpful.
<SpamapS> When the feature freeze comes along, usually developers look through the bug reports for Confirmed and Triaged bugs, and fix those.
<SpamapS> So just having you, as an interested user, try to repeat the reported problem, and confirming it (or telling why you couldn't) is really, really helpful
<SpamapS> jv13613: now, one thing that would be helpful, regarding patches, is if you packaged them and *tested* them.
<SpamapS> doh
<SpamapS> well I'm off to enjoy the gloming
<highvoltage> what's gloming!?
<jmarsden> highvoltage: Probably gloaming, i.e twilight, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloaming
<alex_> hi, this would be the channel to ask questions about uploading to PPA's and stuff?
<c_korn> get-orig-source:
<c_korn> 	@@dh_testdir
<c_korn> what are the two @ for?
<hrw> one @ == 'dear make, do not print this command'
<jack_lt> this is debian/rules
<jack_lt> I like to backport a package from debian to lucid
<jack_lt> but python-scour is not in lucid
<jack_lt> is it possible to replace dh_scour with something similar?
<jack_lt> http://fpaste.org/M5LK/
<jack_lt> 'Scour is a Python module that aggressively cleans SVG files'
<jack_lt> what is the best way to approach this situation?
<artfwo> jack_lt, i think you can disable scour optimisations completely for lucid
<jack_lt> artfwo, ok, how?
<jack_lt> just rm (or replace) the dh_scour command?
<artfwo> well, remove scour from build-depends and delete that 2 lines from debian/rules (disclaimer: i'm not an ubuntu dev/motu)
<jack_lt> let's try
<artfwo> brb
<jack_lt> seems to build at least
<cjwatson> that strategy should be correct, yes
<jack_lt> thanks guys
<fta> hm, ecb breaks during the upgrade in oneiric
<fta> and its d/changelog is corrupted
 * psusi just signed his first changelog with @ubuntu.com... feels nice.
<Amoz> Hi, how can I upload/build a package to ppa, if it depends on another package in the same ppa?
<broder> Amoz: just upload it - the PPA builders can use packages from the same PPA to satisfy dependencies
<Amoz> broder, thanks!
<Amoz> broder, you don't happen to know how I'd do that with the pbuilder?
<broder> Amoz: sorry, i don't use pbuilder, but somebody else might know
<Amoz> broder, I think I found it, thanks anyway =)
<papo> hello
<papo> I am wondering why the tiemu package is in mutliverse and not in universe... could anyone give me a hint? I maintain a PPA for it and just realized about this
<micahg> papo: either licensing issues or it's a binary
<papo> micahg: hm yes I know why packages are generally classified that way but I am wondering about this particular case
<papo> because either I'm missing something or this has changed in the mean time... thanks though
<papo> micahg: because as far as I can see, the software is GPL, it ships with a rom that's GPL too and the source is included in the tarball
<papo> the source of the rom I mean, but the tiemu source is there too, of course
<micahg> papo: maybe it should be moved?  I can't find a good reason myself ATM
<micahg> it could be one of the build-deps used to be in multiverse?
<papo> let me check, I highly doubt it, though
<papo> micahg: nope, the only build dependency I was not sure of is in universe indeed
<papo> micahg: On a related note, a new version of the software was released and I am planning to release that in my PPA... now it would be helpful to know which version name that would get once it makes it into multiverse (or whatever repo it will be) in order to set the ~ppa1 suffix properly
<micahg> papo: where it is isn't reflected in the version
<papo> yes I know that... my best guess is that the new version will be called 3.03-1.1ubuntu1. But if someone has the brilliant idea to call it 3.03-1.2ubuntu1 then it will be newer than my ppa version, at least as far as I understand these rules
<micahg> papo: you generally want the archive version ahead of your PPA
<papo> yeah but there is none
<micahg> multiverse is part of the archive
<papo> yes but 3.03 is not yet in the archive
<papo> 3.02 is and I have it in my PPA
<papo> the patched version, that is
<micahg> so, I would suggest your version be 3.03-0ubuntu1~series~ppa1 where series in (lucid, maverick...)
<papo> now I am in the process of upgrading to natty and since 3.02 was released like 3 years ago, I couldn't hurt to directly patch the new release that is not officially packaged yet
<papo> OK, thank you
<Amoz> I'm trying to build the latest unstable libtorrent (0.12.8)
<Amoz> but it fails =(
<micahg> papo: you might want to file a bug in Debian requesting an update since there's apparently no watch file (or it's broke)
<papo> because if I don't pay attention during an arbitrary and my patched version will get overridden by a newly released, official 3.03 package, I am sort of in trouble because I use the software for university lecture and I don't want this to happen in front of 300+ students
<Amoz> http://pastie.org/2062950
<papo> micahg: OK, I'll consider that... I could even prepare the package, just have to upgrade to natty before I can do that
<micahg> papo: ah, yeah, that's a problem, I'd suggest apt-pinning in your case vs crazy versioning, but test first :)
<Amoz> could someone give a few pointers?
<papo> micahg: good point
<micahg> papo: also, feel free to request the update in Ubuntu as well
<papo> Amoz: I'm probably of limited help here, but is there a configure script in the first place? You may have pulled some HEAD code for which the file has to be generated (in contrast to release tarballs)
<papo> micahg: yeah I'll probably just file a bug once I have natty up and running and played around with the program. If it's buggy there's no point in the first place
<micahg> papo: k, also if the patches are useful for the public, we could possibly include them in ubuntu
<Amoz> papo, yes there's a configure file in the directory
<papo> micahg: hm yes the thing is that the patches may be controversial
<papo> micahg: the thing is, this is an emulator for a calculator. The author probably has a US keyboard where most keys are ready at hand... but I have some European keyboard layout and can't even use the '+' key
<micahg> papo: if you have a patch which makes it international friendly, that sounds like a win
<papo> because the original code passes both shift keys directly to the calculator (it has a shift button). And what I am doing is a only pass the left shift key and use the right one to get '+' and other things... this is a bit of a hack
<micahg> that sounds like a bug more that anything else
<papo> I mean it works perfectly fine and everything, but yet this would at least require some documentation (README.Debian or something) and I'm not really sure this would be adopted happily... but basically I just don't know
<papo> micahg: yeah well I guess the proper way of handling this would try to contact upstream... I tried this 3 years ago but failed
<micahg> if a + key is recognized, it shouldn't pass the shift (unless that's how the calculator works)
<papo> and a bug... well you press shift and the calculator's shift function gets activated... could also be by design
<broder> papo: could the emulator pass "A" as "SHIFT A UNSHIFT"?
<broder> i don't remember the shift key on the TI-92 being used for anything but capital letters...
<papo> broder: you can use it to mark stuff
<papo> like highlighting in word... you highlight parts of your formula and hit backspace or whatever and it gets deleted
<papo> one could argue that + is more important than shift, then some people could argue that this is a non-issue on most keyboards in the first place etc... I don't exactly want to go there since I had my fair deal of these disputes as debian package maintainer. But if you guys think this is not that big a deal I could go for it
<papo> there's probably nobody using that software anyway :)
<papo> hm
<papo> micahg: "Preparing to replace tiemu 3.02-1ubuntu2~ppa1 (using .../tiemu_3.02-1ubuntu2_amd64.deb) ..."
<papo> I don't know why but I just don't get these versioning rules
<papo> ah wait
<papo> I should've increased that version number I guess
<papo> hrm. I'm quite sure that the docs said I had to append ~ppan last time I checked, but now the ~ is gone for some reason
<papo> hrmpf got it
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-14
<zachtib> I hope this isn't a terrible place for a packaging question, but I've put ubuntu-mono icons into my package, but it's not regenerating the icon cache after installing, so they're not showing up. I've googled and found dh_icons, but I'm not sure how to invoke it
<zachtib> I've looked at other applications that include mono icons, and they don't seem to use it either, and I can't find any examples online. So, I'm wondering what do I need to add to my source package for this to work
<RAOF> zachtib: From memory that should be automatically handled by a file trigger.  That memory might be faulty, though, if you find that it doesn't work :)
<micahg> zachtib: why not depends on the ubuntu-mono package?
<zachtib> RAOF, no, I'm having to run update-icon-caches manually
<zachtib> I suppose I could add a postinst script to run update-icon-caches, no?
<micahg> zachtib: if you're using icons from the package, you should just depend on the package (and thus getting the cache updating for free I believe)
<zachtib> micahg, I'm not, I'm adding a mono panel icon for my application
<micahg> ah, ok
<RAOF> zachtib: You'd want to just call dh_icons to grab the automatic update-icon-caches fragment.
<zachtib> RAOF in my postinst script, then?
<RAOF> No, in debian/rules.  It'll add the appropriate maintainerscript fragments itself
<zachtib> RAOF, when I added it there, I got an error (though I have an odd rules file, it's using pycontrol)
<nigelb> tumbleweed: poke
<nigelb> tumbleweed: Brian just made a preliminary list with a script :)
<nigelb> I'm confirming that there are no false positives.
<nigelb> (this is for the ftbfts)
<nigelb> *ftbfs
<dholbach> good morning
<tumbleweed> nigelb: cool
<nigelb> tumbleweed: ah, I have one doubt. Hang on getting the log
<nigelb> tumbleweed: Is this a linking failure? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/72378541/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.4store_1.1.3-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> nigelb: yes
<nigelb> The script needs tweaking :)
<geser> nigelb: both .a files in that linker call need to be moved before -lz -lraptor2 as they use symbols from those libs
<geser> at least lib4storage.a uses them
<nigelb> I can fix that when I get home :)
<nigelb> I submitted a patch to fix build failure linking change in redis, upstream tells me they have no problem building it. HOw do I reply to it?
<nigelb> http://code.google.com/p/redis/issues/detail?id=562
<nigelb> Suggestions on a response welcome :)
<tumbleweed> nigelb: I'd explain that Ubuntu's linker is becoming more strict (point them to the wiki page / doko's e-mails), and tell them they can verify it by trying to build it on an Ubuntu Oneiric alpha
<nigelb> tumbleweed: Thanks, I'll do that :)
<geser> you can also point them to the old build log (the one with the FTBFS)
<nigelb> ah, yes
<sladen> tumbleweed: is there a better link than  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-March/032632.html
<tumbleweed> sladen: yes, that was the reversion of the changes, the original announcing e-mail or http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking
<nigelb> okay, so this is what I'm going with http://dpaste.com/553984/. Did I miss anything?
<tumbleweed> lgtm
<nigelb> geser, tumbleweed: Done thanks :)
<nigelb> sladen: Thank you for the extra comment :-)
<Rhonda> Can I dput with dput from Debian to a ppa, or is that a Ubuntu specific patch?
<Rhonda> Nevermind, added the four lines to my ~/.dput.cf
<Rhonda> What version shall I choose for a ppa upload? The current version is 1.14.0~beta1-1
<tumbleweed> it's generally sensable to append ~ppa1
<Rhonda> Would that be 1.14.0~beta1-1ppa1 then?
<Rhonda> Then the help files are outdated. :)
<Rhonda> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage
<Rhonda> #
<Rhonda> Ubuntu package myapp_1.0-1ubuntu3 â PPA package myapp_1.0-1ubuntu3ppa1
<tumbleweed> I guess common sense just applies. Does one want to preced or supercede
<Rhonda> You're right of course.
<directhex> Rhonda, depends on where you want to place it - i.e. how it should supercede or be superceded by a distro package. and also depends on which version is the "base" version you're working from
<directhex> Rhonda, i.e. if 1.14.0~beta1-1 is current, use ~ppa1 or +ppa1 depending on whether you want higher or lower
<Rhonda> Now I wonder what to put into the changelog. Upload target would be oneiric, right?
<geser> yes, if you want to build it for oneiric
<Rhonda> That's the idea, thanks. :)
<Rhonda> How long would it take until it appears in my PPA?
<Rhonda> And â¦ I am a bit puzzled by the ppa dput config snippet. When one creates a PPA they give it a name, multiple PPAs can get created.
<Rhonda> Though, there is no PPA name part in the upload path, only e.g. ~rhonda/ubuntu.
<Rhonda> Now I wonder how that gets moved in the proper named PPAs from there?
<arand> "ubuntu" is the ppa name in that case afaik, or is this in your .cfg?
<Rhonda> It's in the .cfg
<Rhonda> Then I guess I should switch that.
<arand> ~arand/redeclipse/ubuntu is what i use e.g.
<arand> middle bit being the ppa name
<geser> doesn't the default dput.cfg contain a generic ppa snippet in Debian (or was it only patched in Ubuntu?)?
<Rhonda> hah, that was it :)
<geser> you should get a e-mail soon (the uploads gets processed every 5min)
<Rhonda> geser: Not in squeeze.
<arand> It does, but you need to change it to fit, ubutnu has a patch which allows passing your ppa name to dput as an argument, but that hasn't been upstreamed
<Rhonda> Upload Warnings:
<Rhonda> No copyright file found.
<Rhonda> That's a false warning.
<tumbleweed> geser: the ppa: snippet can't be used on Debian until it supports SFTP (afaik)
<Rhonda> There is debian/pgadmin3-data.copyright in the source.
<Rhonda> This is what works for me with dput: http://paste.debian.net/119784/
<arand> There is a build queue and a guesstimate of time if you check the "package details" and "all builds", I think it's called
<Rhonda> "currently building"  \o/
<arand> Oh, so the /ubuntu at the end is superfluos, I didn't know that :)
<Rhonda> Maybe not, it's still building :)
<tumbleweed> arand: IIRC you can do /ubuntu/$release
<arand> Right, hmm, that overrides what's defined in the changelog then?
<geser> yes, and is IIRC discouraged
<Rhonda> Right, because it would encourage same versions
<tumbleweed> and would easily lead to confusion
<arand> Though there is an easy "copy packages" option for that
<Rhonda> \o/
<Rhonda> https://launchpad.net/~rhonda/+archive/pgadmin3/+packages
<Rhonda> arand: Wouldn't that add a changelog entry?
<arand> It does not seem to do no.
<tuyetmy> hi
<geser> Rhonda: why should "copy packages" add a changelog entry? it's still the same .debs that are just published in an other release too
<Rhonda> geser: I would have hoped that it change the version accordingly, and for that adds a required changelog entry?
<Rhonda> Otherwise a copy across the distributions somehow doesn't make sense to me.
<geser> Rhonda: it copies the packages as is; this works best for packages copied forward which don't need a rebuild (the same way untouched packages get carried over from one Ubuntu release to the next)
<Rhonda> Ah, forward makes sense, yes.
<Rhonda> on the other hand, this might still leave to unresolveable dependencies because of removed libraries and stuff
<cjwatson> and in those cases you need to reupload a new version
<cjwatson> but there are plenty of cases where that isn't so
<Rhonda> I think I just go the path of uploading the source with different versions :)
<Rhonda> hmm.  successful builds are linked, failed builds not?
<Rhonda> Now to I find out why/where it failed?
<geser> Rhonda: which build failed? in your pgadmin3 PPA I only see the "backports" in depwait: "Missing build dependencies: postgresql-server-dev-all (>= 117~)"
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: firstly, you should get an e-mail, second, expand the line on the +packages page to see the detaiuls. Or dig into "View all builds"
<Rhonda> geser: Yep, that Build-Depends is the issue, I seem to have to pull it in from pitti's PPA or such, not sure.
<tumbleweed> you could make your PPA "depend" on pitti's PPA
<geser> or your add pitt's PPA as a dependency
<Rhonda> If I would understand affairs better I would cancle the remaining pending builds.
<geser> you can't cancel
<Rhonda> A building one not, but neither a pending one?
<tumbleweed> you can supercede it, that's about it
<Rhonda> So how can I make the PPA depend on pitti's? And would that reschedule the builds?
<tumbleweed> (or poke a launchpad admin, if it's a massive build and will fail after 20 hours"
<Rhonda> Ah, think I found it :)
<tumbleweed> you can't reschedule, but you can retry the failed builds
<Rhonda> I'll check later.
<Rhonda> Get:20 http://ppa.launchpad.net/pitti/postgresql/ubuntu/ lucid/main postgresql-server-dev-all 117~lucid [5482B]
<Rhonda> Now that looks much much better.  :D
<Rhonda> geser, tumbleweed, thanks for the hint in the right direction. :)
<Amoz> I'm trying to update the libtorrent package, 0.12.6 to 0.12.8, but I get this weird error all the time
<Amoz> chmod: cannot access `/tmp/buildd/libtorrent-0.12.8/build-tree/libtorrent-0.12.8/configure': No such file or directory
<Amoz> make: *** [debian/stamp-autotools] Error 1
<Amoz> when trying to pbuild the sourcepackage (.dsc)
<Amoz> I apt-get source libtorrent
<Amoz> wget the new source and extract it
<Amoz> then I copy the old debian dir to the new source dir
<Amoz> and dch -i
<Amoz> then debuild -S -sa
<Amoz> I must be missing something here
<Amoz> any pointers?
<geser> is the mentioned file there?
<Amoz> geser, nope, the tmp dir is just there during the build I guess
<Amoz> however, there's a configure file in the source dir
<geser> is that from pbuilder? you can add a hook to drop you into a shell when the build fails
<Amoz> geser, yes it is
<Amoz> oh really, how? how's that going to help me? =)
<Amoz> so I can checkout files and stuff?
<geser> pbuilder destroys the chroot when it exits, when you get dropped into a shell you can investigate why it failed before everything gets removed
<Amoz> ah
<Amoz> the thing is I don't know what to look for anyway
<psusi> is there a release manager around who can approve the series tasks for bug #675108 please?  it's a natty regression with a proposed patch that I've worked into a bzr branch and tested... going to forward port it to oneiric next, but the SRU will need the natty task.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 675108 in gnome-power-manager (Ubuntu) "gnome-power-manager adds battery to indicator twice when battery hot-unplugged and plugged back in" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/675108
<geser> psusi: someone from #ubuntu-desktop should be able to accept the nominations too
<micahg> cjwatson: libdkim on had half of your patch applied, do you want me to reupload the other half or wait until Debian does it?
<micahg> *only
<cjwatson> micahg: I reopened the Debian bug
<cjwatson> I think we can probably just leave it until then TBH - I was only in a rush because it was on the OpenSSL transition list
 * micahg thought you already rebuilt it for the transition
<sinzui> I want to become a motu. Specifically I want to fix the packages I maintain or use that are broken in oneiric
<micahg> sinzui: awesome, so, the best way to start is to propose fixes for your packages for sponsoring
<sinzui> michag. I need to ensure the bug in reported against the package in oneiric and subscribe the sponsor team?
<micahg> sinzui: no need to target the bug, yeah, just add a patch and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors or propose a branch for merge into lp:ubuntu/foo
<cjwatson> micahg: the fix was after my rebuild attempt
<cjwatson> micahg: and since it's now been transitioned, I'm not in a desperate hurry to fix the reappearing failure
<cjwatson> happy to wait for Debian + autosync
<micahg> cjwatson: ah, ok, thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-15
<dholbach> good morning
<cjwatson> micahg: libdkim is fixed now
<hrw> can someone take a look at bug 791321?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791321 in raxml (Ubuntu) "raxml version 7.2.6-1 failed to build on armel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791321
<hrw> I attached debdiff there and subscribed sponsors already
<geser> hrw: would the package compile without the -msse or would it fail then too? (see the related Debian bug #626672)
<ubottu> Debian bug 626672 in src:raxml "raxml: Uses -msse" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/626672
<hrw> geser: it uses headers available only on x86 archs
<hrw> but can check
<hrw> geser: raxml needs xmmintrin.h which is x86 only and uses asm instructions.
<Laney> warp10: why don't you contribute your sparkleshare packages to debian?
<hrw> geser: but will write to debian bug too
<geser> hrw: it would be good if both Debian and Ubuntu use the same solution to that problem: either do runtime check if SSE can be used (if easily possible) or build only on any-i386, any-amd64 (don't know if any is supported at this place)
<geser> hrw: thanks
<Laney> (then we might have been able to make you aware of cli/mono packaging helpers)
<hrw> geser: mail sent.
<hrw> geser: so now we wait for Debian maintainer to react and then will sync
<geser> hrw: ideally yes
<hrw> bug 791326 - best way is to report this also as bug in debian?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791326 in gnu-smalltalk (Ubuntu) "gnu-smalltalk version 3.2.4-1 failed to build on armel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791326
<hrw> as this is not ubuntu only problem
<Laney> hrw: reportbug -B debian --smtphost=reportbug.debian.org gnu-smalltalk
<hrw> wrote to maintainers directly
<highvoltage> good morning
<Laney> hiya
<Rhonda> hrw: It did build on Debian? Potentially there is a toolchain difference, so severity should be normal or important, but not higher.
<hrw> Rhonda: it may build on Debian but soon will stop building
<hrw> Rhonda: multiarch landed in natty and is starting to land in Debian too
<Rhonda> Sure, I don't question that.
<Rhonda> But if it doesn't FTBFS right now in Debian, you shouldn't file it with a release critical severity. A fair amount of package maintainers react a bit "jumpy" on receiving RC bugs.
<hrw> Rhonda: I did not reported bug in Debian - I mailed maintainers with review/merge request
<Rhonda> I understood that, just generally speaking. Better safe than sorry.
<Rhonda> If something FTBFS in ubuntu and you haven't checked whether the same issue really is currently _already_ happening in Debian, avoid release-critical severities.
<hrw> Rhonda: ftbfs kind of bug on package which I do not even know what it does is never RC kind for me
<hrw> Rhonda: wednesdays are bug fixing days for me - I am looking at 'arm-porting-queue' tag in launchpad and goes though the list.
<hrw> Rhonda: part of Linaro's 'arm porting queue' weekly
<Rhonda> Sweet tradition. :)
<hrw> lunch time
<warp10> Laney: there is an ITP already in debian BTS, and work is in progress. I opened that PPA upon request of sparkleshare upstream, who needed a bunch of packages for Ubuntu and Debian ASAP
<Laney> warp10: the ITP is owned by me :-)
<Laney> it's kind of 'on behalf of' the Debian CLI applications team
<warp10> Laney: ah, sorry, didn't noticed that :D
<Laney> what's this other terminus PPA?
<warp10> Laney: actually, I'm not interested in mono packaging (and am not an expert at all)
<warp10> Laney: ETA for your package to land in debian?
<Laney> just saying that if you want to help with maintaining it in Debian then we can work something out
<Laney> haven't got one yet, was waiting for upstream to sort itself out
<Laney> seems to have happened now, so a few days
<directhex> oh, sparkleshare. i guess it's in a packageable state now
<Laney> apparently, haven't downloaded it yet to check
<warp10> Laney: ok, sounds great.
<directhex> the worst sins of the source are gone. i should re-evaluate it for the office
<Laney> i'd base it on one or other of the ppa packages
<directhex> i think hbons is in the meeting room down the hall, i could quiz him...
<Laney> warp10 seems to have done a copyright file :-)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> quiz him on why he pushed for a PPA instead of doing it properly ...
<warp10> Laney: yeah, it *should* be complete. Feel free to grab it, but please re-check everything
<warp10> Laney: BTW: many files have missing license header
<Laney> it's a good start, but I noticed that you don't use any of cli-common-dev, for example
<Laney> which is why you had to manually add that dep on webkit-sharp
<warp10> Laney: is cli-common-dev an helper for mono packages?
<directhex> warp10, yes
<Laney> it provides a dh sequence and some helpers, indeed
<warp10> Maybe it fixes the few files having +x permission too?
<Laney> dunno
<Laney> anyway, I have to go to down to buy a fishing license for my father's birthday (he likes exciting things, y'see)
<Laney> will look at this when I get back
<warp10> Laney: :D ok
<warp10> Laney: looks like there is only one issue with upstream code (a missing hashbang in a python script), but I'm going to warn guys in #sparkleshare, hopefully they will release a fix in time for your packaging
<DorianJaminais> Hi there!
<DorianJaminais> I am fairly new to packaging apps for ubuntu and i face a problem i do not understand
<DorianJaminais> I manage to create the source package using dbuilder but one I upload it on launchpad, it fails to build
<DorianJaminais> the error launchpad give me is here : http://paste.ubuntu.com/627324/
<DorianJaminais> Does any of you guys can explain me what i am doing wrong ?
<cjwatson> looks like you have hardcoded paths in your source package that only exist on your system
<cjwatson> you can't assume that /home/player exists
<cjwatson> use grep -r to find where you're doing that
<DorianJaminais> alright
<DorianJaminais> thanks very much
<DorianJaminais> what i've done is run cmake before dh_make
<DorianJaminais> should i avoid running cmake ?
<cjwatson> DorianJaminais: cmake should be run when building the package, but there's no reason to run it before preparing the source package
<cjwatson> DorianJaminais: 'debian/rules clean' should clean up bits and pieces left by cmake, though, so check why it isn't
<cjwatson> ah, yes, clean is the thing that's failing due to the hardcoded path nonsense
<cjwatson> you'll need to clean that up before uploading the source package
<DorianJaminais> but can i run dh_make if i haven't got any makefiles ? (like before running cmake)
<cjwatson> yes
<cjwatson> dh_make just spits out a template source package
<cjwatson> (you're expected to edit what it produces)
<hrw> another bug done - bug 791312 is also debian bug 626671
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791312 in monav (Ubuntu) "monav version 0.3-3 failed to build on armel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791312
<ubottu> Debian bug 626671 in src:monav "monav: Uses -march=native" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/626671
<DorianJaminais> okay I i misunderstood that, i thought that dh_make was using the makefile to determine dependencies
<renemoraes> i'm having a problem with my unity launcher, can someone help me?
<Ampelbein> renemoraes: hi, please use #ubuntu for support, this channel is about maintaining universe packages.
<renemoraes> ok.. sorry! thank u
<Ampelbein> no worries
<mistyrouge> back again
<mistyrouge> so a rebuild my package without using cmake before
<mistyrouge> as expected i don't find any references to my home folder know
<mistyrouge> but i still have the same error message when trying to build on launchpad
<Ampelbein> mistyrouge: can you point to the location of the *.dsc file?
<mistyrouge> https://launchpad.net/~mistyrouge/+archive/vescape-ppa/+files/pagedgeometry_1.1.0-0ubuntu3.dsc
<mistyrouge> and here is the build log : https://launchpadlibrarian.net/73570469/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.pagedgeometry_1.1.0-0ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Ampelbein> mistyrouge: in the Makefile there is  $(CMAKE_COMMAND) -E cmake_progress_start /home/player/pagedGeometry/pagedgeometry-1.1.0/CMakeFiles /home/player/pagedGeometry/pagedgeometry-1.1.0/CMakeFiles/progress.marks
<mistyrouge> how can i get rid of it ?
<Ampelbein> mistyrouge: I don't know to be honest, you should ask upstream to fix the buildsystem.
<mistyrouge> all right thank you very much
<mistyrouge> just a thinking : can't the problem come from the fact i am using cmake to create a makefile ?
<mistyrouge> Ampelbein : where did you find the makefile ? I can't find it
<mistyrouge> I think I know what the problem is
<mistyrouge> the first time, i uploaded an incorrect .orig.tar.gz file
<mistyrouge> and launchpad seems to use this one intead of the new one
<mistyrouge> is there a way to upload a new orig.tar.gz file ?
<Ampelbein> mistyrouge: only with a new version
<mistyrouge> a new version of the upstream software or a new version of the package ?
<Ampelbein> mistyrouge: and the makefile is in the package directory, after 'dpkg-source -x *.dsc'
<Ampelbein> mistyrouge: a new upstream. you should never change upstream tarballs without changing the tarball's name.
<mistyrouge> thanks, i found it on launchpad but it is not on my computer, that is why i figured out that it hasn't the right version of the orig file
<mistyrouge> al right so i need to create a fake new minor version of the upstream project ?
<Ampelbein> mistyrouge: or use a version name like foo_0.1.2-proper.orig.tar.gz
<Ampelbein> mistyrouge: and a fitting debian version foo_0.1.2-proper-0ubuntu1
<Ampelbein> (you get the idea)
<mistyrouge> okay I will try this
<mistyrouge> thank you very much for your help
<micahg> cjwatson: re libdkim> ACK, thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-16
<freeflying> wodering how can I know which package I have right to upload, anybody has any clues?
<micahg> freeflying: you can use the edit_acl.py scripts in lp:ubuntu-archive-tools
<freeflying> micahg: thanks, what about I want the right to upload some specific package, whats the process to apply for it?
<micahg> freeflying: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Per-package%20Uploaders
<freeflying> micahg: thanks
<nathanbelomy> Hey guys, anyone want to decode some 64 binary, new string line execution for run level 7? It's C++ 3/4. GNU License, I'll add more later.
<nathanbelomy> http://www.scribd.com/doc/57964655/New-Line-String-Execution-for-Run-Line-Level-7
<nathanbelomy> anyone here?
<poolie> nathanbelomy: wtf is that?
<micahg> ScottK: not that ubuntu-dev has PPU, should we revisit the newpackage wiki that says sign off by 2 Ubuntu developers, for some reason I thought it was 2 MOTUs, was that incorrect?
<micahg> s/not/now
<ScottK> At the time it was written those two were synonymous.
<ScottK> I think MOTU is correct in the current context.
<micahg> right, but is my understanding correct, 2 MOTU ACKs required (core-dev is considered a MOTU)
<ScottK> For packages by non-MOTU.
<ScottK> It's actually a bit trickier.
<ScottK> For example I think a kubuntu-dev ack on a package should certainly count.
<ScottK> (I would trust any kubuntu-dev to not comment on things outside their expertise)
<ScottK> OTOH, the difference between PPU and kubuntu-dev is just scale.
<ScottK> Meh.
<micahg> ScottK: well, ok, but still, 2 ACKs are required, right?
<ScottK> I think motu is right rule.
<ScottK> For packages by non-motu, yes.
<ScottK> For MOTU the 2nd ack is suggested, but not required.
<micahg> ScottK: wiki fixed
<ScottK> Thanks.
<bludude> how should i create a debian/watch for a project that's hosted on launchpad but doesn't produce tarballs?
<geser> then you can't. do you use checkouts for the .orig.tar.gz?
<mase_wk> i find the whole orig.tar.gz thing quite annoying and redundant
<mase_wk> not that my opinion counts for anything
<bludude> all we have is a bazaar repo on launchpad
<geser> bludude: then you can ignore the debian/watch file (as there is nothing to watch).
<bludude> alright, thanks.
<dholbach> good morning
<xdatap1> dholbach, morning!
<dholbach> hey xdatap1
<BlackZ> morning dholbach :)
<dholbach> hey BlackZ
 * Rhonda sighs at the screenshot in Mohamad's Xlog post â¦
<Laney> warp10: thanks for your package, I based the debian package on it: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/sparkleshare_0.2.2-1.html
<Laney> kept your changelog entries and copyright :-)
<Daviey> Laney: kinda confusing changelog :).. Suggests it is currently in oneiric archive. :)
<Laney> hah
<Laney> I hope the 'ppa' in the version helps there
<warp10> Laney: great! After it is accepted and synced I will keep my PPA just for backports to stable Ubuntu release
<warp10> Laney: and I'm sure our friend ftp-assistant Dktrkranz  will be happy to give love to sparkleshare accpeting it ASAP from the Debian NEW queue... /me looks DktrKranz
<Laney> meh, no rush
<RogueTech> #ubuntu
<DorianJaminais> hi everyone
<DorianJaminais> I think I have misunderstood something in the version number scheme
<DorianJaminais> i created a package witch depends on libois (>= 1.2)
<DorianJaminais> and in the repos, there is a package libois version 1.2.0-1
<DorianJaminais> my problem is that my package is broken because it requires a too high version on libois
<DorianJaminais> is this normal ?
<directhex> DorianJaminais, 1.2. is greater than 1.2
<DorianJaminais> yes so my package requires a lower version of libois
<DorianJaminais> I think i find out what is the actual problem
<DorianJaminais> libois package is named libois-1.2.0
<directhex> ...
<directhex> then you need to depend on libois-1.2.0
<DorianJaminais> yes that was it
<DorianJaminais> sorry for disturbing :/
<bdrung> bludude: packtools has the same purpose as packaging-dev
<persia> bdrung: Did packaging-dev land?  I don't see it (but maybe I'm not looking with the right tools)
<maco> persia: we're poking at it right now
<persia> Oh, excellent.
<maco> where "we" = i'm saying stuff and he's typing
<bdrung> persia: not yet. i am currently trying to get a proper long description with maco
<persia> packtools also suffers from a number of other issues (some of which I've passed to bludude), so it will be nice to have the proper replacement.
<bdrung> persia, maco: http://paste.debian.net/120094/
<bdrung> persia: besides that, packaging-dev was discussed on debian-devel
<bdrung> persia, maco: is the description ok? can you improve it?
<persia> bdrung: Sure, but I don't think it's fair to expect everyone to read that (especially not developers for Ubuntu remixes)
<persia> "mangements" -> "mangement"
<persia> "and packaging macros" -> "packaging macros"
<maco> was about to say that one
<persia> Err, "mangement" -> "management" if you've been accepting corrections verbatim :(
<bdrung> persia: i enabled word correction :)
<persia> "is just for packaging, not for developing" -> "provides tools for packaging, rather than the development of software"
<bdrung> improvements for the last paragraph is welcome
<persia> "This package should be installed by packagers. " -> ""
<bdrung> current status: http://paste.debian.net/120095/
<persia> "meta-package" -> "package"
<bdrung> two other questions: should ubuntu-dev-tools in Depends or Recommends?
<tumbleweed> do we have a lintian patch for complaining about it?
<persia> "for development" = "for the development"
<persia> I think u-d-t should be recommends.
<tumbleweed> +1 for recommends
<bdrung> the same for bzr-builddeb?
<tumbleweed> I'd say so
<persia> Is that interesting to packaging developers?  How?
<bdrung> persia: "meta-package" -> "package" in short or long description?
<maco> i think bzr-builddeb should move from regular recommemds to ubuntu-only recommends
<persia> bdrung: I'm only looking at long for now.
<persia> Oh, my: the short description is very awkward.
 * maco tends to think the hardest part of making a new package is writing the stupid descriptions
<maco> it's a package that does a thing! stop asking me hard questions! gimme easy ones like "what are the build-deps?"
<tumbleweed> heh, true that
<bdrung> maco: but we have svn-buildpackage and git-buildpackage in there too
<broder> haha, agreed
<broder> "it's a package that does a thing!" - i might use that for one of my internal packages now
<bdrung> http://paste.debian.net/120096/
<bdrung> broder: that's better than a description "TODO"
<maco> "did a thing" is a phrase ive used a lot lately. my elbow did a thing. my knee did a thing. my hip did a thing.
<persia> bdrung: maco: http://paste.debian.net/120097/
<tumbleweed> persia: if you remove meta-package from the short description, you should add something about that to the long one
<bdrung> persia: great, i will use that (there should be somewhere meta-package in there.
<bdrung> )
<bdrung> -> This meta-package depends on common packages [...]
<persia> tumbleweed: Why?  It wasn't in either the short or long description of several metapackages I looked at before composing it.
<tumbleweed> or at the end: This meta-package doesn't contain anything but depends on useful packages. No other package...
<maco> i guess Section:meta-packages tells you that...
<persia> Look at gnome-office, ubuntu-desktop, etc.
<tumbleweed> persia: I find it useful when deciding what package to install, I assume other people do too
<bdrung> W: packaging-dev: empty-binary-package
<tumbleweed> yeah section:meta-packages does that too, I guess
<persia> tumbleweed: As pointed out by maco, the information is already available.
<tumbleweed> right
<persia> bdrung: Did you remember to install copyright, changelog, etc.?
<bdrung> persia: from lintian: If the package is deliberately empty, please mention in the package long description one of the phrases "metapackage," "dummy," "dependency package," "empty package," or "virtual package."
<persia> Now that's a justification I can support.  Thanks!
<persia> Yeah, "This package" -> "This metapackage" in both lines then.
<bdrung> and section meta-packages is not allowed
<bdrung> final check please: http://paste.debian.net/120099/
<persia> Where can I look at the rest of control?
<maco> huh. wonder where i found that section, cuz looking at the policy guide again its not there
<persia> maco: It's an ubuntuism?
<maco> maybe it was just because vim stopped going all red-text on the section when i got from meta-package to meta-packages, so it looked like it accepted that spelling?
<maco> hm maybe
<maco> ah yeah, metapackages is in cjwatson's ubuntu policy manual
<persia> Heh: vim syntax highlighting requires distro-patching for debian/control files :)  The deep implications of some of the policy variations are amusing.
<broder> huh? i thought debian added a metapackages section...
<broder> (or something like that)
<broder> huh. maybe not
<persia> Policy 2.4 doesn't appear to include anything like that.
<persia> bdrung: Sorry: failed to get back to you: 120099 looks fine to me.
<persia> I'd still like to see control :)
<maco> persia: he's got it in collab-maint. im guessing he's waiting to link it til he's got the desc updated
<persia> Why is apt-file Recommends?  I use it sometimes, but can't see how it might be considered essential.
<persia> Or even normally present.
<micahg> persia: well, it's good for researching where other files are especially in fixing DSO linking issues
<persia> micahg: Yes, but if one is packaging for a perfect upstream, once doesn't encoutner those.  Nor if one is packaging python, java, ruby, shell, C#, D, etc.
<persia> I think it ought suggest gnome-pkg-tools (and in Ubuntu only, kubuntu-dev-tools, by ${vendor-specific:Suggests}
<micahg> persia: I could make the same argument against both of those, they're specific to certain domains in UBuntu
<micahg> persia: and kubuntu-dev-tools pulls in ruby, I don't think we want to do that by default
<persia> micahg: How is pkg-gnome-tools specific to Ubuntu?
<micahg> ah, suggests, nevermind..
<persia> Err, gnome-pkg-tools
<micahg> persia: you only use it if you package certain parts of the archive
<micahg> but suggests is fine for both
<persia> And there's still enough software in the archive that uses dpatch it's probably worth suggesting that as well (if not recommending it)
<maco> oh dpatch is that one i couldnt remember
<persia> micahg: specific to domain, yes.  Specific to Ubuntu, no: gnome-pkg-tools is also used in Debian for the same purposes.
<maco> (it's either "quilt" or its "easy" :P)
 * micahg thinks we should add a postinst to dpatch outputting something along the lines of (if you're installing this, consider porting the package to source format 3)
<persia> No.
<persia> I can do stuff with dpatch that simply isn't possible with any of the other systems.
<Laney> why do we need more cudgels?
<persia> Go look at the implementation some time :)
<micahg> persia: the comment was more tongue-in-cheek :)
<Laney> :-)
<micahg> persia: sorry, didn't mean to emphasize the UBuntu part about being domain specific
<persia> Heh, OK.
<persia> Also, if we're recommeding all the VCS tools, seems like it's worth mentioning mr and pristine-tar
<bludude> I just got a look at the packtools and packaging-dev stuff.  i'm going to move packtools to the same format as packaging-dev (no germinate).
<persia> micahg: Anyway, my issue with apt-file is that I never need it, although it may be helpful in some contexts.  In the case of gnome-pkg-tools or kubuntu-dev-tools, there are *lots* of pacakges that simply cannot be built without them.
<persia> bludude: Why?  Just join in the debate about what packaging-dev ends up being.  Let's have one perfect tool, rather than two.
<micahg> persia: I never need genisoimage, should we drop that too?
<bludude> true.  I made packtools to learn about packaging, so for me it's just for learning
<persia> micahg: I don't see it in the recommends or depends of packaging-dev.  Am I missing something?
<micahg> persia: I thought we were talking about ubuntu-dev-tools...
<persia> (admittedly I have an old version of the file)
<persia> No.
 * micahg is confused...
<bludude> if y'all desire, packaging-dev can have the name packtools
<persia> It already got debated on debian-devel@ as "packaging-dev", which means confusing lots of folk if the name changes now.
<bludude> ok
<Laney> pristine-tar is certainly a good one
<tumbleweed> pristine-tar should already be depended on by everything that uses it, no?
<bludude> pristine-tar is pulled in by bzr-builddeb
<persia> OK, then we don't need it.
<bludude> bzr-builddeb pulls in a lot of good stuff
<persia> tumbleweed: I don't think packages using pristine-tar need to build-dep on it, and I don't believe it's required as part of the workflow for any of the VCS packaging tools (although recommended for the majority of them)
<tumbleweed> Depends: ... python2.6 | python2.7 | python2.4 ... ???
<persia> Isn't there a "python-all" for just that purpose?
<tumbleweed> persia: I mean git-buildpackage, bzr-builddeb etc depend on it
<tumbleweed> persia: that's different
<tumbleweed> and I'm ??ing at the 2.4
<persia> They oughtn't.  They ought recommend it.
<tumbleweed> git does, bzr depends on it
<persia> That's just wrong.
<tumbleweed> and as we can see it's no tthe only thing that's wrong :)
<persia> All the more so given the example of the Ubuntu Desktop team who uses bzr for packaging and doesn't use pristine-tar as they use external tarballs.
<micahg> rdepends for pristine-tar http://paste.ubuntu.com/628131/
<micahg> +1 for recommending
<persia> Oooh.  mercurial-buildpackage.  That ought be at least a suggests of packaging-dev
 * tumbleweed waits for someone to mention cvs-buildpackage
<persia> If there are packages still maintained in cvs, then I agree with tumbleweed that it ought be suggests.
<tumbleweed> persia: I hope there aren't but there probably are
 * tumbleweed hasn't ever come across any
<persia> I have, but not in at least a few years.
<nathanbelomy> anyone take a look at this http://www.scribd.com/doc/57964655/New-Line-String-Execution-for-Run-Line-Level-7
<cjwatson> nobody here is interested in that
<nathanbelomy> I guess fedora might be?
<nathanbelomy> It similar to the way intel's hypervisor technology works, only this is a virtual process that optimizes process executions concurrently
<nathanbelomy> Maybe vmware wants it
<jtaylor> sladen: openbve does not build in oneiric with mono 2.10, can you have a look?
<bdrung> persia: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/packaging-dev.git;a=summary
<micahg> bdrung: is piuparts useful for regular packagers?
<persia> micahg, It's worth recommending.  Run on it's own (rather than as a service), it's a really handy way to test install/upgrade/remove/purge of the package.
<micahg> persia: ah, I've never used it before, maybe I should :)
<persia> heh.  Probably.
<cjwatson> (nathanbelomy's URL is a weird troll of some kind, to save anyone else the trouble of looking.)
<persia> bdrung: Sorry: yeah, that's what I was looking at before.  I don't see the latest changes we were discussing, but I'm sure you've a good local copy of the useful parts of the discussion.
<bdrung> micahg: we should recommend testing :)
<bdrung> persia: i am currently busy. will commit it soon.
<persia> No rush.  I doubt I'd have anything more useful to comment about than I've already commented.
<bdrung> persia: pushed
<Laney> sladen: pretty please will you maintain openbve in debian?
<Laney> i'll sponsor you!
<highvoltage> sladen isn't a dd!?
<tumbleweed> that's entirely fixable
<directhex> i thought sladen was a DD.
<directhex> maybe i'm confusing him with someone else
<Laney> can't find any evidence of this fact
 * Laney ldaps
<bdrung> pushed http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/packaging-dev.git;a=summary
<bdrung> now is the last chance to get some changes into it before my first upload
<bdrung> maco, persia, tumbleweed, micahg: ^
<persia> So, I'd like bundles of changes to Recommends and Suggests (as outlined above).
<persia> But I'd prefer discussion of my suggestions, rather than just submitting a patch and having it applied, as while I think I'm right, I'm rarely the best judge of that.
<persia> Also, since I'm not a target user for the package (I actively don't want it installed, as I tend to like to not have e.g. autotools-dev by default so that when `make clean` breaks, I know I'm unhappy with the implementation, etc.)
<persia> I'm probably not the right person to be made happy: the package should ideally match the documentation which is recommending it's installation.
<tumbleweed> there was a sub-discussion about that on debian-devel, whether the package was recommended tools for new packages, or useful tools for packaging
<bdrung> it targets new users.
<tumbleweed> I think "things you're probably going to need" won out
<maco> my original goal was to avoid 3 rounds of "oh wait, install this too" when mentoring newbies
<bdrung> persia: adding suggestions doesn't hurt and they all seemed reasonable. therefore i added them
<bludude> fyi, my goal for packtools was to automate installing everything listed in the Ubuntu packaging guide
<maco> the stuff in the packaging guide should all be in packaging-dev. i checked that
<bdrung> bludude: packaging-dev has the same goal
<persia> bludude: I think that's the right goal, although I'm of the opinion that it makes sense to fix *both* the documentation and the package to do the right thing, rather than accepting either as authoritative.
<tumbleweed> I'm pretty happy with the current contents
<bludude> yes, they seem to fulfill the goal
<persia> I really don't like dh-make, but that's from having repeated myself hundreds of times suggesting people clean up from it's common mistakes (e.g. Priority: extra)
<bdrung> persia: that's the reason why it is in suggest and not in recommends
<bdrung> packaging-dev  0.1 uploaded!
<sladen> Laney: yeah, if you sponsor it
<sladen> directhex: 10 years of me mistaking me for a DD now :-)
<sladen> directhex: will get around to it at some point.  The previous one five years ago got put on hold because I refused to upload more crap into the archive just for the sake of completing NM
<directhex> sladen: means i wasn't mistaking you for someone else, you're one of the "he's not a DD? huh?" folks as gets occasionally mentioned in #debian-uk circles
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> basically want to be able to drive a train at work
<Laney> not that I can even do forward right yet
<jtaylor> sladen: I propsed a branch for merging with openbve
<directhex> Laney: have you booked a b&b for the night at the debian bbq yet? you're a dd now, it's your duty to attend
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-17
<Laney> directhex: hmmmmmm
<Laney> probably ought to go
<directhex> it's the law.
<directhex> enrico will be there an' ev erything
<dholbach> good morning
<kklimonda^> shadeslayer: hey, can you tell my why did we change oauth id for choqok? It is now supposedly identifying itself as "Kubuntu Choqok".
<shadeslayer_> kklimonda^: sure, it was because Choqok ships its own Auth ID *inside* the source code and twitter discourages that, so in general it was suggested that we use our own auth id instead of choqok's auth id
<shadeslayer_> let me get the article
<shadeslayer_> kklimonda^: http://arstechnica.com/security/guides/2010/09/twitter-a-case-study-on-how-to-do-oauth-wrong.ars
<shadeslayer> kklimonda^: so there's a good chance that twitter will block choqok's key in the future, so our key is a workaround for that
<kklimonda^> shadeslayer: thanks
<hrw> hi kklimonda^
<kklimonda^> hey hrw
<Amoz> hi, what's the usual waiting time before a merge proposal gets reviewed?
<tumbleweed> Amoz: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring-stats/
<Amoz> tumbleweed, wow, thanks!
<DorianJaminais> Hello everybody !
<DorianJaminais> I am trying to package ogrenewt, an addon for ogre
<DorianJaminais> my problem is that when building with pbuilder, it fails because it does not find the newton library
<DorianJaminais> this library is in the package folder
<DorianJaminais> but i don't know how to tell pbuilder where to find it
<DorianJaminais> here is the end of the buildlog : http://paste.ubuntu.com/628432
<DorianJaminais> Does anybody knows how to fix my problem ?
<tumbleweed> DorianJaminais: it's not about telling pbuilder where to find it, it's about tessing this package's build system where to find it
<DorianJaminais> This package uses Cmake
 * tumbleweed wonders why newton isn't packaged for debian. Does it not provide a stable ABI?
<DorianJaminais> newton is not package on its own for debian because of the license
<DorianJaminais> we can only package it as part of another project
<DorianJaminais> that's why i try to package ogrenewt
<tumbleweed> right
<DorianJaminais> so, i have added a variable in the cmakelist.txt
<tumbleweed> it looks like it's permissivyl licenced, so I don't see the issue
<DorianJaminais> -> SET(NEWTON_INCLUDE_DIR "newtonSDL/sdk")
<tumbleweed> DorianJaminais: sorry I try to avoid learning cmake :)
<DorianJaminais> well the license says : "THe LICENSEE may not trdistribute the SOFTWARE, except as part of a compiled software program that is not itself a physics library"
<tumbleweed> ok, I didn't look at the licences included in the source, just the home page
<DorianJaminais> the things is that i manage to compile it by hand but when using pbuilder it fails
<tumbleweed> are you sure you didn't have it in /usr/local/lib or something?
<DorianJaminais> i think so
<tumbleweed> well that's how it was finding it then
<tumbleweed> you need to make it find the local version
<DorianJaminais> i try again by hand on a clean environment
<DorianJaminais> yes but how can i do that
<DorianJaminais> ?
<tumbleweed> DorianJaminais: I have no idea, I'd have to work it out. And for that I'd need to see the source package you are using
<DorianJaminais> okay, i am uploading it
<DorianJaminais> alright, here is the source package : http://parent.jaminais.fr/ogrenewt.tar.gz
<Laney> surely that license is unsuitable for the archive
<DorianJaminais> even part of a packaging project ?
<Laney> what's a packaging project?
<DorianJaminais> i mean, the content of this archive is aimed at being packaged
<DorianJaminais> and the license says i can redistribute it packaged with other things
<DorianJaminais> as newton is not the only software in this archive, i think we can consider it a package and it is not a physics library package
<cjwatson> it can't go in the Ubuntu archive with that licence term
<cjwatson> well, not in main
<cjwatson> or universe
<cjwatson> it could go in multiverse I guess
<Laney> i don't think it's clear whether that really allows redistribution
<Laney> a pessimistic interpration would probably say no
<cjwatson> I think it clearly allows redistribution together with other non-physics things
<DorianJaminais> the licenses states that we are entitled to redistribute it as part of an other project than a physics library
<cjwatson> but it is definitely non-free by our terms
<Laney> what's a physics library?
<Laney> what's a part?
<DorianJaminais> yes i know that, but it can still be package
<cjwatson> Laney: I'm quite sure there are grey areas
<Laney> The LICENSEE agrees to notify www.newtondynamics.com of any products, commercial, shareware or free that incorporate the Newton Game Dynamics technology.
<cjwatson> gosh, good luck doing that if it was in the Ubuntu archive
<DorianJaminais> yes i know that impossible
<DorianJaminais> but i think it can still be packaged and made available on the ogre forum as a deb file
<Laney> I am only speaking for the ubuntu archive here, as that is what this channel is about :-)
<DorianJaminais> this is allowed and would be very usefull for a lot of peoples
<DorianJaminais> yes but my problem here is not on the license but on the way to package it
<cjwatson> anyway, either put -L. before -lNewton on the link line, or use libNewton.so in place of -lNewton
<cjwatson> this isn't specific to pbuilder - it's just that pbuilder is working in an environment where libNewton isn't installed in /usr/lib or whatever
<cjwatson> you could see the same effect in an ordinary system by making sure libNewton isn't installed in the system library path
<DorianJaminais> and is there a way to move libNewton to /usr/lib ?
<cjwatson> not during the build, no
<cjwatson> that would not be the correct fix
<cjwatson> (I mean, if it were packageable separately, sure ...)
<DorianJaminais> yes but here comes the license again :(
<DorianJaminais> so i am trying with libnewton.so
<cjwatson> capitalisation will matter
<DorianJaminais> in my cmakelist.txt i have SET(NEWTON_LIBRARY "Newton.so")
<DorianJaminais> is that ok ?
<DorianJaminais> well, nothing has changed
<DorianJaminais> i still get the exact same error message
<JackyAlcine> DorianJaminais, you're using CMake? Did you modify CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX?
<DorianJaminais> yes I am using cmake
<JackyAlcine> If it's not set to "/usr", it won't go to /usr/lib
<DorianJaminais> it is set to /usr
<DorianJaminais> my problem is that libNewton.a is not in /usr but in ogrenewt/newtonSDK/sdk/
<JackyAlcine> Did you use an install function to install the shared library?
<DorianJaminais> no
<DorianJaminais> i only get the already compiled code of newton
<JackyAlcine> Hm, well, the install method would handle that for you. Try running cmake --help-html and look up the method.
<JackyAlcine> It would copy it from the ${PROJECT_BINARY_DIR} to ${NEWTON_INSTALL_DIR} (whatever that's set to).
<DorianJaminais> I don't have any variables name newton_install_dir
<JackyAlcine> Can I see your CMakeLists.txt file?
<DorianJaminais> yes for sure
<DorianJaminais> here it is : http://paste.ubuntu.com/628474
<DorianJaminais> well, i'm giving up for today, i'll try again on monday
<DorianJaminais> thank you very much for your help guys
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: were you still planning on taking care of rdscli?
<RoAkSoAx> micahg: you said is an ACK for you now right?
<RoAkSoAx> micahg: if so, please go ahead and re-upload as i'm immerse deeply into cobbler import code atm
<RoAkSoAx> s/immerse deeply/deeply immerse/
<micahg> RoAkSoAx: k, if not today, will do over the weekend
<micahg> Laney: or directhex are you around by any chance?
<Amoz> hey, when fixing small bugs, how do I know when to use the bzr commit changelog and when to use the debian/changelog with dch -i ?
<Laney> micahg: yeah a bit
<tumbleweed> Amoz: changelog is what really matters, if you 'debcommit' it'll use your changelog entry as a commit message
<micahg> Laney: ah, was just going to ask about running update-maintainer on moon, but I figured out how to do it w/out modifying the maintainer
<Laney> DEBEMAIL=
<micahg> right
<Laney> :-)
<micahg> Laney: but unfortunately, updating in natty for Firefox 5 is blocked on the FTBFS in oneiric (bug 798941) if you want to take a look at it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 798941 in moon (Ubuntu Oneiric) "moon FTBFS in oneiric with libav 0.7" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798941
<Laney> urgh
<Laney> you'd better ask directhex about moonlight
<Laney> don't know if anyone cares for it these days
<micahg> k, I tagged ftbfs and milestoned for alpha-3, so I figure someone will get to it eventually
<Amoz> tumbleweed, so I guess my bugfixes where I bzr commit is bad then.
<micahg> hi gilir
<directhex> Laney: RM it. if it becomes usable again, we can re-NEW it.
<micahg> directhex: seriously, moon go bye-bye?
<directhex> micahg: i think it's irresponsible to pretend it's fine, given i don't even know if it has an upstream anymore
<micahg> directhex: ok, wfm, that means I can add it to the packages to be tested in natty
<directhex> means monodevelop needs patching. (or unpatching, to be more precise)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-18
<c_korn> if a program requires a prebuilt library which does not have a SONAME, where should it be installed in the file system?
<jack_lt> I need this package as build depend, http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid-backports/dh-autoreconf
<jack_lt> how can I add lucid-backports to pbuilder?
<tumbleweed> c_korn: you mean if it's unversioned and only used by this program? /usr/lib/$packagename/ would probably be sensible
<c_korn> ok, thank you. tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> jack_lt: you have multiple options: log into it and edit the sources.list or use pbuilder's othermirror option (which would require you to have an apt-get update hook called before build)
<jack_lt> k
<xdatap1> Hi guys. I need an information. I'm working on the gmp-ecm merge. The most relevant difference with debian package is a build-dep in control: gcc-4.3 [sparc]
<xdatap1> does it means that this build-dep is only for sparc platform. If so, may we keep this build-dep and syncing this pack instead merging? (the rest of changes are applied in debian)
<tumbleweed> we don't support sparc any more
<tumbleweed> yes, it's a build-dep only appyling to sparc, so it won't affec tubuntu at all
<xdatap1> tumbleweed, perfect, thank you
<tumbleweed> meh, these armel buildds are slow. 5 days into building insighttoolkit, it's only 50% done :/
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-19
<imbrandon> quiet evening :)
<Laney> we fixed all the bugs already!
<directhex> ricotz, did you upload docky 2.1.3 to ubuntu?
<ricotz> directhex, i requested a sync, so if you want to upload it go ahead
<xdatap1> hello Guys. Just a curiosity. What's the meaning of row colors on merges.ubuntu.com? Like here: https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html
<tumbleweed> package priority, IIRC
<geser> I remember the same
<xdatap1> thanks :)
<tumbleweed> geser: btw, I see you wrote the code behind qa-ftbfs. I've been playing with getting it to grah FTBFS-quantity history. Are you taking patches?
<tumbleweed> http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/qa-ftbfs/oneiric-historical.html
<geser> sure, and nice graphs
<tumbleweed> only been collecting data for two days (and end of natty), so not much yet
<tumbleweed> geser: lp:~stefanor/+junk/qa-ftbfs (Maybe move from +junk to an ubuntuwire project on lp?)
<geser> tumbleweed: good idea, do you know who I've to talk about it? wgrant?
<Laney> anyone got a ppc/oneiric or sid chroot? Please try installing ghc and see if /usr/bin/ghci works (gets you a prompt)
<tumbleweed> Laney: I have (both, I think)
<tumbleweed> Laney: but not very useful: ghc: timer_create: Function not implemented
<tumbleweed> that could be qemu's fault
<tumbleweed> (it's surrounted by Unsupported syscall: 240s)
<Laney> ah ok
<tumbleweed> powerpc is only sort-of usable on qemu. One can debug some issues, that's it
<tumbleweed> #debian-ppc ?
<stgraber> Laney: I'm testing it now
<Laney> just want to confirm a bug
<Laney> he reported it on ppc64
<stgraber> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/629576/
<stgraber> Laney: segfault
<Laney> ta
<Laney> that is what the bug said too
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-11
<dholbach> good morning
<micahg> siretart: are you handling the libav-extra upload?
<siretart> micahg: I think I did the most annoying bunch of work here: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-multimedia/libav.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubuntu.extra
<siretart> micahg: I think it even builds properly, but it clearly needs more testing
<siretart> micahg: would you have the time to finish/upload that work today? If not, I would eventually get to that during the week (probably not today)
<micahg> siretart: I can try in about 21 hours if you don't get to it
<siretart> ok. let's coordinate on short notice then
<micahg> siretart: do I need to be able to commit or will anonymous access do it for me?
<siretart> micahg: if you do commits, just place them somewhere from where I can fetch and push your commits
<siretart> micahg: but I can also arrange write access for you, what's your alioth username?
<micahg> siretart: I have write access, the problem is I haven;t added a key to alioth yet
<siretart> well, that's the trivial part, isn't it?
<micahg> yeah, should be :)
<siretart> then go for it! :-)
<micahg> maybe tomorrow night, about to go to sleep
<siretart> rest well!
 * siretart fetches coffee (it's 8.38am here)
<micahg> siretart: thanks, BTW, xubuntu seems interested in dropping libav support from gegl so it's not pulled in by gimp
<badfox> Hi I am new merge , i have tried to merge  and getting the problem with debuild -S , here is the link http://pastebin.com/jXaVLrVC
<Daviey> dholbach: Hey, do you understand why underscore has a binary new package ?
<dholbach> Daviey, it was introduced in Debian
<dholbach> yolanda merged it
<Daviey> dholbach: right, but the changelog doesn't make it clear why it's a new binary.. do you understand why?
<Daviey> Or should i dig in deeper?
<dholbach> Daviey, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/underscore/1.3.3-1ubuntu1
<dholbach> â 1.1.6-2
<Daviey> doh!
<Daviey> i thought it was bin 'underscore' new.
<Daviey> which confussled me
<dholbach> ah ok :)
<Daviey> thanks
<cousteau> So...  not sure where to direct this, but here it goes.  The site packages.ubuntu.com seems to default to karmic when searching for package contents, this is, when no &suite=... parameter is in the URL
<micahg> cousteau: you must have an old cached version, current default is precise
<cousteau> this happens for example when I search from a search engine (one I found on mycroft; not sure how official it is) and then switch "Search package names" to "Search package contents"
<micahg> karmic isn't even on the site anymore
<micahg> hrm, it's true :(
<cousteau> also if I search from the main URL in suite=all then switching to package content just gives an ugly error
 * micahg wonders where rhonda is
<micahg> that's certainly a lack of sane defaults ;)
<cousteau> micahg, well, this is a freshly installed Xubuntu 12.04 on a computer that didn't have any linux before (or if it once had, it was formatted)
<micahg> cousteau: no, I confirmed it, it's weird though
<cousteau> ...that was it, Rhonda
 * cousteau and his memory for names...  "Is here that...  person whose name starts with a capital R...  or B?"
<cousteau> micahg, suite=default is precise, however (I think)
<cousteau> the problem is that no suite= becomes suite=karmic rather than =default
<cousteau> I thought it was because I was using an outdated search plugin (noticed the same behavior at home), but now I confirmed it's from the site
<cousteau> s/confirmed/think/
 * Elbrus wants to fix bug 1002520 in precise
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1002520 in winff (Ubuntu) "winff can't convert MTS to MPG (PAL DVD Widescreen)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1002520
<Elbrus> it is not really a critical bug, some settings just don't work.
 * Elbrus guesses that SRU is too far fetched for this
<Elbrus> should I make a backport (seems strange, as I only want to fix this issue)
<micahg> Elbrus: how intrusive is the patch?
<Elbrus> hardly
<Elbrus> it replaces the preset file with updated presets
<Elbrus> Winff preset file contains the avconv/ffmpeg commands to run
<Elbrus> see debian/presets.xml and debian/presets-libavcodec53.xml in http://code.google.com/p/winff/source/detail?spec=svn646&r=627
<Elbrus> (at least debian/presets.xml should be updated)
<micahg> Elbrus: IMHO should be fine for SRU, but IANA SRU memebre
<Elbrus> ok, I will go ahead with creating a debdif then
<micahg> Elbrus: needs to be fixed in quantal first
<Elbrus> it is already fixed (always was)
<micahg> Elbrus: please comment in the bug to that regard and mark fix released, I"ll give you a precise task
<Elbrus> or, I should say, since 1.4.2-1
<Elbrus> ok
<Elbrus> done
<micahg> Elbrus: done as well :)
<Elbrus> micahg: thanks
<micahg> Elbrus: thank you for working to improve Ubuntu
<Elbrus> np
 * Elbrus attached the debdiff and subscribed ubuntu-sponsors and ubuntu-sru. hope all is all right now
 * Elbrus signs off now
<AmberJ_> Why purpose does dh_gencontrol serve?
<AmberJ_> manpage says that dh_gencontrol generates control files once for each package
<AmberJ_> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/dreq.en.html#control says: "dh_gencontrol(1) generates DEBIAN/control for each binary package while substituting ${shlibs:Depends}, ${perl:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, etc. "
<AmberJ_> Does that^ means that for a multi-package debian/control setup which we chose.... there will be multiple packages listed in debian/control created by us (and corresponding *.install files).
<AmberJ_> Then for each of package listed in debian/control by us, dh_gencontrol creates a (temporary) control file (?)
<arand> AmberJ_: From my understanding it takes the debian/control that you create, reduces it to only concern the binary package currently being acted upon, substitutes the variables, and places the result in said binary package, see debian/binpackagename/DEBIAN/control after you run the build for the result.
<arand> If you have a multi-package setup, the end result will be multiple different control files, one in each binary package.
<AmberJ_> Oh yes, this explains it. Thanks!
<AmberJ_> In a multi-package setup (with a single upstream source repo), if I put ${shlibs:Depends} and ${misc:Depends} under "Depends:" field in entries corresponding to EVERY package
<AmberJ_> Will this automatically find mutual dependencies between these packages (based on the contents/libs in these packages)?
<arand> AmberJ_: Not as far as I know.
<AmberJ_> Ok, I'll do a build and see if putting ${shlibs:Depends} and ${misc:Depends} works...
<AmberJ_> Otherwise, I'll have to put mutual deb dependencies manually
<AmberJ_> If a package depends on another package in multi package setup, I can simply put the name of package as in filename.install file under Depends:
<arand> Well, "package".install links to the "Package: "package"" field in d/control, so all three would be the same.
<frcerm> If upstream source has *.h header files, all header files are supposed to be packed in deb (assuming *.so packed in debs have declarations in all *.h)
<frcerm> ?
<jtaylor> all headers that are needed to develop with the package
<jtaylor> those are not necessarily all in the source
<jtaylor> normally the source installation method installs what is needed
<frcerm> [03:36] <jtaylor> those are not necessarily all in the source  <--  If some headers might not be included in upstream source, how does one gets them?
<jtaylor> phrased it badly
<jtaylor> not all headers inside the source package are needed by to use the package
<jtaylor> the installed headers should only expose the public interface and nothing private
<frcerm> got it! Thank you very much...
<bobweaver> hello there I am trying to make a video tutorial for a friend on how to package " bakgrounds "  but the dang things will not show up under settings... permissions are correct do I have to make a xml file maybe? here is bzr branch (well pushng now)  https://code.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/+junk/backgrounds
<bobweaver> package builds great installs to /usr/share/backgrounds/  but will not show up under settings-->appearance->look
<arand> Is /usr/share/gnome-background-properties/gnome-backgrounds.xml the crux? (Not sure of equivalent for Unity)
<bobweaver> thanks arand
<LordOfTime> anyone here familiar with patch tagging guidelines?
<arand> LordOfTime: Somewhat, if you mean the dep3 stuff.
<LordOfTime> that's what i meant, but mdeslaur beat you to it in -hardened
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-12
<micahg> LordOfTime: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
 * micahg sees the link was already provided in another channel
<dholbach> good morning
<vibhav> dholbach: you there?
<dholbach> hi vibhav
<vibhav> dholbach: As far as I know you were the last guy yo touch predict in Ubuntu, Since Debian sid has released a new version, Can I prepare a merge for it?
<vibhav> s/yo/to/
<vibhav> Or do you want to do that?
<dholbach> vibhav, sure, feel free to do it :)
<vibhav> tahnks
<vibhav> thanks*
<dholbach> thank YOU :)
<bobweaver> Hello there I have been asked by a couple of folks on the Ubuntu forums to set up a Class session on  wireless packaging hacking. mainly We will be looking a a b43 driver(wireless broadcom) and the awaful "missing firmware" Bug.   and just packaging up some firmware I could use a couple Gurus from here if they have the time to kinda look over us and maybe jump in if I get over my head or questions are asked that can be directed to motu
<bobweaver> June 14th 11:30am  -0700 too 1pm  #ubuntu-classroom
<bobweaver> example :  Q : Is there a team or anything like that that approves packages.  MYA: That is a good question Please direct all questions about getting software into Ubuntu to XXXXX   [s]He has been kind enough to donate there time with us and is just the person that you want to talk to about that.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-13
<micahg> ajmitch: are you taking the asterisk merge?
<ajmitch> micahg: I've been putting it off, but I'll do it if you prefer :)
<ajmitch> I see there was another DSA for it today
<micahg> ajmitch: please, yeah, another DSA, I've got no time this month apparently :9
<micahg> :(
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> there weren't that many changes remaining from what I recall, I'm not sure how relevant they still are
 * micahg is supposed to upload libav-extra and has pushed it off again
 * ajmitch thinks we can probably drop changes for backporting to hardy
 * micahg isn't sure about the hardy stuff, the other two changes probably need to be kept
<ajmitch> the arm fix ended up being a 1-character change
<micahg> well, hardy server is supported for another 10 months
<micahg> if it's the last change we can certainly drop it I think
<ajmitch> the file says it's:
<ajmitch> # Hook for automatic backports at Buildserver.NET
<ajmitch> debian/backports/hardy is just a set of sed statements
<micahg> {sid|etch|sarge|feisty|edgy|dapper} doesn't seem promising
<micahg> ajmitch: your call :)
<ajmitch> I'll take a look based on what's remaining
 * ajmitch needs an armhf box to build on :)
<micahg> stgraber: can you talk to Laibsch about adding python-support back to pastebinit?
<ScottK> ajmitch: Let the hardy stuff die.
<micahg> YokoZar: can  you look into merging wine from Debian, their build seems to work with gcc-4.7 (and gcc 4.5 will die as soon as mysql is fixed)
<ajmitch> ScottK: that's my preference too
<ScottK> micahg: You realize wine is totally forked, right?
<micahg> ScottK: well, now that they have 1.4 in Debian it can be reintegrated? :)
<micahg> *maybe
<micahg> or just steal their gcc-4.7 build secrets
<ScottK> The latter seems more likely.
 * ajmitch hopes that 1.5.6 is uploaded to the wine PPA soon, I needed it for a critical windows application :)
 * RAOF wonders which game*cough* critical windows applictation ajmitch is talking about :)
<ajmitch> heh
<YokoZar> micahg: it's probably just that 4.7 fixed the regression
<YokoZar> ajmitch: oh all right I'll stop being lazy then :D
<YokoZar> ajmitch: We are talking about Diablo 3 right?
<ajmitch> YokoZar: no, WoW :)
<ajmitch> I uploaded 1.5.6 to my PPA to get it built on i386 & amd64, haven't spotted any problems
<YokoZar> ajmitch: does it work without the ptrace patch?
<YokoZar> *actually wow probably didn't use the anti-debugger stuff
<dholbach> good morning
<cousteau> Package msp430-gdb conflicts with package gdb in the silliest way
<cousteau> basically, msp430-gdb includes a directory /usr/share/gdb which conflicts with the same directory on gdb
<cousteau> msp430-gdb's should be named /usr/share/msp430-gdb
<cousteau> either that, or gdb should be a dependency of msp430-gdb, not sure
<stgraber> micahg: I'll try again... IIRC he was against it for some weird reason (so I just patched it again last time)
<Laney> vibhav: you should specify the date of your meeting on the DMB's agenda
<Laney> July 2nd
<vibhav> Laney: ping
<Laney> hello
<vibhav> Can I set the date to June 18 ?
<Laney> no
<Laney> a) You need to leave at least 1 week
<vibhav> July 2nd?
<vibhav> ah fine
<micahg> stgraber: well, you seem to be playing whack a mole with the dh_python2 conversion
<Laney> b) That meeting has two people already
<vibhav> got it, thanks
<micahg> vibhav: have you been contributing for 6 months yet?
<vibhav> micahg: nope
 * micahg only sees uploads back to march
<micahg> vibhav: 6 months of contribution is usually a base requirement for membership
<micahg> *Ubuntu
<vibhav> ah :(
<stgraber> micahg: also, the package simply doesn't need python-support or anything like that, it doesn't even ship a python module ;) it's really just a bunch of ini files that need to be dumped into /usr/share/pastebin.d and a python script into /usr/bin :)
<micahg> ooh, even better
<LordOfTime> anyone know who can answer a question regarding turnaround time from proposed to main for a non-multiverse and non-universe package?
<stgraber> micahg: I just ported pastebinit to python3 upstream, so Laibsch will need to update the packaging to use dh_python3 now :)
<TheLordOfTime> so i didnt see any responses to my question, because i lost connection, did anyone respond?
<ScottK> TheLordOfTime: No.
<TheLordOfTime> very good, wanted to make sure
<TheLordOfTime> *returns to the other channel*
<micahg> stgraber: heh, sounds good
<ajmitch> morning
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-14
<AmberJ> Err... http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/ says "Not found"!
<AmberJ> In fact, links/articles under "Knowledge Base" section on that^ page were also giving a UbuntuWiki 404 error ~10 minutes ago...
<ajmitch> micahg: there's a MOTU meeting in ~12 hours, right?
<micahg> ajmitch: I guess so :)
<ajmitch> looks like one of the outstanding items from last time was decide on a time & a meeting chair on the mailing list :)
<micahg> hrm, I still need to write the expiration policy
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: advance apologies, I'm mostly-offline, sailing
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> dholbach: so we were just discussing before, is there a MOTU meeting this week? :)
<dholbach> ah yes
<dholbach> it should be today
<dholbach> why do I have to do all these announcements and everything? :)
<ajmitch> sorry, I didn't want to announce it before it could be confirmed
<ajmitch> & you did take the action item last time ;)
<dholbach> no no - I was just kidding
<dholbach> the discussion about alternate meeting times didn't go anywhere, did it?
 * ajmitch doesn't recall
<ajmitch> I doubt I'll be at the meeting though :)
<dholbach> that's only reasonable :)
<dholbach> ah yes, nobody replied to the question
<ajmitch> sorry about that, I should have spoken up & suggested a time that suited me
<ajmitch> with no opposition, I'd be fine every meeting :)
<dholbach> I'm happy for us to change the meeting times
<dholbach> I just don't know where to
<dholbach> but for today I reckon we shouldn't change the time :)
<ajmitch> rotating times only works if there are enough people in each time slot
<dholbach> I'm sure that UTC morning works for some parts of Asia/Oceania and Europe, so I wouldn't mind trying it out
<geser> good morning dholbach, good evening ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi geser
<geser> is there something at the agenda for the MOTU meeting at all?
<ajmitch> show up & talk about stuff?
<dholbach> hey geser
<dholbach> I'd like to talk about the next bug fixing initiative
<dholbach> we had quite a number of bugs fixed in the last one and it might be good to prepare this one
 * micahg had an idea for one of those, but forgot what that was
<dholbach> ajmitch, maybe you can reply on the "meeting times" thread? :)
<Laney> YAY STUFF
<AmberJ> REPOST: Err... http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/ says "Not found"!
<AmberJ> In fact, links/articles under "Knowledge Base" section on that^ page were also giving a UbuntuWiki 404 error
<AmberJ> Is it just me who is seeing those^ 404 errors on Ubuntu Packaging wiki page
<tumbleweed> dpm: ^
<dpm> thanks tumbleweed, looking...
<dpm> dholbach, the packaging guide seems to have died ^
<dpm> looking at the logs to see if I can see anything
<dholbach> hum
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> let me know if I can help any
<dholbach> ...or if you guys broke something in the WP setup :-P
<dpm> the packaging/ folder that contains the docs seems empty
<dpm> let me try to run the script
<dholbach> don't forget the environment variables :)
<dpm> :)
<dpm> dholbach, could this point to missing files in the natty packaging guide package? -> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1040718/
<dholbach> it could - let me try to reproduce locally
<dpm> ok. I need to run for lunch now, but I can look at the backlog every now and then
<dholbach> thanks dpm
<dholbach> dpm, I fixed the script
<dholbach> dpm, there is still some breakage with singlehtml, but that needs to be fixed in the guide itself and I think asomething was on it
<dholbach> dpm, if you pull and run again, html, epub and pdf should be happy again
<dpm> dholbach, tumbleweed, AmberJ, ok, the packaging guide has been brought back to life ;)
<dpm> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/
<AmberJ_> Thanks!
<dholbach> thanks dpm
<paultag> is andreserl here?
<dholbach> paultag, meet roaksoax
<paultag> dholbach: thanks buddy :)
<dholbach> de nada
<paultag> roaksoax: just got your mail to pkg-javascript -- since the same policy also governs node apps, etc, how were you thinking about covering that? Branch node / javascript (web) policy? I'm actually wondering :)
<paultag> roaksoax: I like your idea a lot, and I've been thinking of something similar, but I've never really suggested anything.
<paultag> unless node apps had their own node home with symbolic links to the correct versions, and somehow overload node.js to preset the node path
<paultag> that'd be pretty cool. but anyway, food for thought.
<roaksoax> paultag: can we swtich this conversation to #maas?
<roaksoax> paultag: as actually shipping versions came from there
<paultag> roaksoax: gladly
<bregma> I have a package in Debian unstable that was removed from Ubuntu a few releases ago, so it doesn't get autosynced...  what do I need to do to get it back into Ubuntu?
<ScottK> bregma: What package?
<bregma> ember, and ember-media
<ScottK> bregma: I'm looking into it.
<bregma> thanks
<ScottK> bregma: I've removed it from the sync blacklist, so the next time we sync new packages it should come in (that's not done every day).
<bregma> excellent, thank you
<dholbach> MOTU Meeting in 3m?
<dholbach> we're in #ubuntu-meeting
<YokoZar> mhall119: ping
<mhall119> YokoZar: hey there, I was told you might be able to help answer questions about packaging Windows apps with wine
<mhall119> I'm looking for someone who can be a mentor/point of contact for somebody writing a pkgme backend for windows apps
<YokoZar> mhall119: Right, that's exactly me.  Hell I might even do it for you.
<ajmitch> darn, I missed the MOTU meeting
<highvoltage> eek, me too
<Laney> BAD
 * micahg wonders what Laney doesn't like
<micahg> ajmitch: we're welcoming kubuntu into the universe
<Laney> slack ajmitch and highvoltage :P
<ajmitch> Laney: I'm sorry, I'll do penance
<iulian> Hehe.
<ScottK> If Laney's angry about slacking ajmitch, he'll need to get used to it ...
 * micahg thinks that comment needs an asterisk
<ScottK> Hey, ever since we ditched boost on xnox, he's had it easy.
<ScottK> ;-)
<ScottK> (better)
<ajmitch> people are harsh here, I think I'm going outside
 * micahg hugs ajmitch
<ScottK> ajmitch: JFTR, I've had it easy since we ditched boost on xnox too.
<ScottK> Now there's a nice version number: http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/p/pycryptopp/pycryptopp-0.6.0.1206569328141510525648634803928199668821045408958.tar.gz
<micahg> that's probably close to the limit
<micahg> (for packages at least)
<directhex> is that... a decimal version of a git commitid?
<ajmitch> micahg: fwiw I had been looking at asterisk & trying to see if it could just be a straight sync, made a bit more difficult by some of the changes carried forward not having explanations in the changelog
<micahg> ajmitch: I was just implying that you do take care of things in a pinch ;)
<ajmitch> :P
 * ajmitch wants to drop the armhf patch & see if it builds, since it's not required in debian
<micahg> sorry, thought that was a better title than slacker
<micahg> ajmitch: depends what it fixes, Debian's arm* builds behave slightly different (and are only on gcc-4.6 ATM)
<ajmitch> -     linux-gnueabi)
<ajmitch> +     linux-gnueabi*)
<ajmitch> that's the entirety of the patch now
<micahg> err, not behave, but don't have the same quirks due to various stack differences
<micahg> hrm, not sure
<ajmitch> previous merge removed some parts of that patch that looked to be done upstream
 * ajmitch needs that armhf setup at home
<micahg> ajmitch: are you not a DD?
<ajmitch> yes, but you said that there are toolchain differences
<ajmitch> so testing on debian (where we know it works) isn't useful
<micahg> ah, (pbuilder-dist in a home dir on a Debian machine?) :D
<ajmitch> & I've got an ARM tablet sitting beside me that I need to get ubuntu working on :)
 * ajmitch could just get Laney to do it
<Laney> sadly not
<ajmitch> you're no fun
<Laney> would if I could :(
<Laney> ask in #-arm
 * ajmitch will have to leave anything involved until tonight
<ScottK> micahg: Debian/Ubuntu armhf are much more similar than armel.
<micahg> ScottK: hrm, yes, just slightly, Debian still has no GLES and is using gcc-4.6
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-15
<ScottK> armhf is armv7 in both instead of armv3 and armv7.
<micahg> ScottK: in quantal it's armv4t and armv5 AIUI
<micahg> err...sid vs quantal
<micahg> for armel
<ScottK> Pretty sure we're v7.
<ScottK> jaunty was v5, IIRC.
<dholbach> good morning
<cousteau> could someone do something with bug #860045 please?  it's almost 9 months old
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 860045 in gdb-msp430 (Ubuntu) "package gdb-msp430 7.2~mspgcc-7.2-20110612-1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/gdb/python/gdb/__init__.py', which is also in package gdb 7.3-0ubuntu2" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/860045
<badfox> some one can help me with how to choose basic beginner   merges
<badfox> some one please
<badfox> dholbach,  ping
<dholbach> hi badfox
<badfox> hi dholbach
<dholbach> I think there's no way to just pick them somewhere, but it helps if you check out the REPORT file of a few merges on merges.ubuntu.com and see how complicated the changes sound
<badfox> dholbach,  my problem is i am a basic starter of merging . i have done merging to one package . That is dnprogs . so now i want your help to help me on merges . i mean some easy merges i can do .
<dholbach> for example if it says "demoted X from recommends to suggests" then that's a simple change
<dholbach> but if there's a gazillions lines of changes it might be harder :)
<dholbach> yes, I'd go through the list of merges on merges.u.c and check out a few
<badfox> ok
<badfox> i have opened that already
<badfox> dholbach, https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html#outstanding i am here now
<dholbach> cool
<badfox> so confuse  what to choose
<dholbach> as I said: pick one, check out the changes in the report which were done in the past
<dholbach> does anyone else have a secret recipe?
<badfox> ok i will try
<dholbach> ok cool
<dholbach> if you have questions, just ask in here
<dholbach> I've got to go out for a bit now, but I'm sure somebody else can answer as well :)
<badfox> https://merges.ubuntu.com/a/activiz.net/REPORT this one seems , good for a basic starter like me
<dholbach> good luck! :)
<dholbach> see you in a bit
<badfox> dholbach,  is it fine ight
<badfox> right ?
<Laney> you should be able to sync activiz.net
<Laney> fyi :-)
<badfox> means Laney  ?
<Laney> it means that the changes we have are no longer needed, so we can copy the version from debian
<Laney> in this case it looks like -2 incorporated them
<Laney> but of course you should confirm this
<Laney> !sync
<ubottu> Helpful information for filing a sync request can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<badfox> Laney,  now i am getting it to download
<badfox> so you mean we can directly get it right ?
<Laney> you should verify this yourself
<Laney> but I think so.
<badfox> Laney,  whats the meaning of this message " It looks like this package is maintained in revision control:"
<Laney> badfox: What it says: the maintainer keeps the package in a revision control system. If it refers to a debian.org URL then you can probably ignore it.
<Laney> (because we usually only care about Debian packages that have been uploaded to the archive)
<badfox> Laney,  thanks :) i have stopped that
<Laney> stopped?
<badfox> making start is really a big deal for me i think
<badfox> yeah doing that
<Laney> how come?
<badfox> because i have got some errors and  i am unable to understand where the error
<badfox> you want see the report ? la
<badfox> Laney,  ^^
<Laney> no it's ok, give me a second
<badfox> :)
<badfox> http://pastebin.com/2eYjdYnm Laney
<Laney> that means you need to install the package containing Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/cli.pm
<Laney> which is cli-common-dev
<Laney> badfox: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/195be63e/
 * Laney syncs it
<a-zorin> I'm having some issues with building a package on Launchpad. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions if anyone may have any. Full details of the problem are here: http://goo.gl/mrVdl
<maxb> a-zorin: The problem is in this line:
<maxb> cc -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions -Wl,-z,relro -lX11 -lXext -lXrender  xwinwrap.o   -o xwinwrap
<maxb> -l options for libraries need to occur *after* the things that refer to symbols in them
<a-zorin> Sorry for my ignorance, but what file is this line in?
<a-zorin> Sorry, it was in the buildlog. Is there anyway to make it build correctly?
<psusi> is there a way to search a g_tree for either an exact match, OR the next higher node?
<micahg> siretart: sorry, I haven't gotten to libav-extra yet, but hopefully this weekend (Ubuntu studio who is the main consumer has other issues they're working on ATM, so it's not the end of the world)
<siretart> micahg: ok, thanks for keeping me informed
<iulian> psusi: Are you talking about glib binary trees? If yes, you would probably have more luck in #ubuntu-desktop.
<iulian> (no idea if the guys in there deal with these but it's worth asking)
<AmberJ> How can I pass number of jobs to run simultaneously when using debuild? 'make' uses -j option to specify tthis. How can I pass -j value to debuild (to be used by make)?
<Zhenech> call debbuild -j?
<Zhenech> it works for dpkg-buildpackage
<Laney> yes, you can't see it in the debuild manpage because it's a dpkg-buildpackage option (debuild passes unknown options down to dpkg-buildpackage)
<AmberJ> noted. Thanks :)
<AmberJ> If a file does not gets installed by upstream's 'make install', we add a line to debian/install... On my system built files goto a directory (in root of source directory) obj-x86_64-linux-gnu
<AmberJ> Is it safe to assume that on any amd64 install, build files will always goto obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/ ?
<AmberJ> *on any amd64 install of Ubuntu distro
<AmberJ> In fact, on any debian-based amd64 install..
<jtaylor_> AmberJ_: no you can't assume that, but its probably sensible to assume that only one folder exists
<jtaylor_> so you could use wildcards
<AmberJ> jtaylor_: Is obj-* what you mean?
<jtaylor_> yes, you could also patch the buildsystem
<AmberJ> ok thanks!
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-16
<fo0bar> if there is a package in universe which has a Ubuntu-specific patch which has been rolled up into the upstream debian version, is there anything that needs to happen manually?  or will the debian import figure this out?
<fo0bar> specifically, the digitemp package.  I am now the debian maintainer for it, and a new upload is on its way to sid
<ScottK> fo0bar: Something needs to happen.  It needs a sync request.  See syncpackage in ubuntu-dev-tools.
<fo0bar> ScottK: ahh right, thank you
<elky> freenode services will be upgraded soon, if you're around and have ops here, please op up incase a troll swarm hits.
<RoboTux> paultag: welcome
<RoboTux> Greetings MOTU people
<RoboTux> I come to you because as the maintainer of tcc in Debian, I feel concerned about its state in Ubuntu
<RoboTux> In particular, I see that Oneiric uses 0.9.25-10 which fails to build on armel
<RoboTux> The current version in Debian (as well as any 0.9.26~foo IIRW) builds on armel
<RoboTux> It also builds on armhf but it will generate armel code so I don't think it's interesting to build it on armhf
<jtaylor_> I think no tcc on armel is acceptable for a short support term release
<RoboTux> Hence I was thinking a stable upgrade of tcc might be worthwhile
<jtaylor_> but if you have a patch, an sru can be done
<paultag> RoboTux: hi :)
<RoboTux> jtaylor_: oh, I thought Oneiric was a LTS
<RoboTux> I must confuse with Precise
<jtaylor_> precise is the lts which appears to ahve tcc on arm
<RoboTux> Indeed
<RoboTux> Ok then, sorry for the noise
<paultag> RoboTux: an update for oneiric is still a good idea
<paultag> it's still supported
<jtaylor_> but its no regression
<jtaylor_> earlier releases never had it on arm
<RoboTux> paultag: I don't know if it's that worthwhile
<paultag> there's LP: #823716 - safe to close/ignore?
<RoboTux> It would if armhf was supported but as you know, it's not fully the case yet
<paultag> jtaylor_: ^
<RoboTux> paultag: I'm so sorry for disturbing you for nothing
<paultag> RoboTux: it's quite alright, I'm happy to help.
<RoboTux> By the way, it seems the fix for the kfreebsd problem is pending \o/
<jtaylor_> paultag: it should be marked fix released, if someone prepares an sru I can nominate it
<jtaylor_> but I agree with RoboTux that its probably not worth the effort
<RoboTux> jtaylor_: I don't think there will be an sru
<RoboTux> I tried to fix it by backporting patches in Debian but never succeeded
<RoboTux> It seems several patches are needed, I don't know which ones and they are non trivial to backport
<paultag> jtaylor_: I'm fine with closing it fixed release
<RoboTux> the source tree was completely reorganized since 0.9.25
<jtaylor_> then no update the risk of regression outweights the benefit
<RoboTux> Definitely
<paultag> yep.
<paultag> alright, thanks jtaylor_, I'll close that out.
<RoboTux> Thanks jtaylor_ and paultag
<RoboTux> paultag: I don't know how many beers I owe you now :]
<paultag> RoboTux: closed :)
<RoboTux> Maybe it'll be cheaper to bring you some strong chinese alcohol the day we meet
<RoboTux> Great
<paultag> :)
<RoboTux> See ya
<siretart> micahg: I've now managed to testbuild the branch, and the result looks OK to me
<siretart> micahg: I'm now having dinner, but unless I hear from you, I'm going to upload libav-extra afterwards
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-17
<micahg> siretart: feel free to upload if it's good
<psusi> I really hate autotools tonight... I'm trying to build parted and the make gets stuck in an infinite loop trying to run automake-11a to rebuild the makefile.  why must it explicitly specify 1.11a, which I guess is the new version in quantal, but I don't have in precise, and why is it even trying to run automake at all?  the makefile should already be up to date, and just to make damn sure, I touched it
<psusi> the strange thing is that when I run bzr bd, it builds fine, but it gets stuck in that automake loop when I manually quilt push -a, ./configure, make
<adhorden> hi, any one having issues uploading via dput today?
<siretart> micahg: uploaded
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-10
<dholbach> good morning
<fr33r1d3> hi
<redtape|renegade> AlanBell, OT | As you use a good webcam . Do you think this 'superior scan quality' webcam/s  will work with 13.04 ? http://ur1.ca/e9lmr | soz in advance if I'm in the wrong #channel.
<redtape|renegade> AlanBell: I'll check the logs at supper .. so just leave a message/response ... and I'll see it later ..
<redtape|renegade> leaves
<AnAnt> Hello, few days I uploaded xpra 0.9.5+dfsg-1ubuntu1 to raring by mistake
<AnAnt> it was supposed to be for saucy (which I've already done today)
<AnAnt> the one for raring didn't get accepted yet, so I dunno if should do anything else
<Laney> AnAnt: I suggest you ask in #ubuntu-release for it to be rejected
<AnAnt> Laney: coming to think of it, I am using it in raring, so I'm not sure should about asking for it to be rejected
<AnAnt> Laney: thing is, I am not willing to go into the SRU headache
<Laney> Unless it fixes important bugs you shouldn't
<Laney> fixes /only/ important bugs, at that. Backporting is an option though.
<psusi> anyone know what is wrong with packages.ubuntu.com?  I'm searching for packages containing files in /etc/acpi/events, and it says nothing found...
<mitya57> psusi: ask Rhonda
<Laney> looks to me like it only searches filenames and not directories
<TheLordOfTime> any MOTU actively alive want to check on something?
<tumbleweed> !ask | TheLordOfTime
<ubottu> TheLordOfTime: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed:  this came up on the bugcontrol ML from someone, asking for tortorisehg in raring to be "updated".  I'm looking into a response from someone who could legitimately answer whether there's any feasibility in updating
<TheLordOfTime> i know if saucy's updated a backport could happen but...
<tumbleweed> yes, that's how it works
<TheLordOfTime> reason is apparently "The tools is broken since Qt 4.10"
<tumbleweed> looks like it was updated a couple of days ago
<tumbleweed> http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/tortoisehg.html
<TheLordOfTime> so answer is: "No, the version won't be updated as in the repos, however if Saucy is updated to a latest working version from Debian, then it could be backported which is a separate process"?
<TheLordOfTime> yeah that's what i noticed
<TheLordOfTime> when's the next sync from Debian -> Saucy
<tumbleweed> already done
<tumbleweed> 5 days ago https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tortoisehg
<tumbleweed> so, explain the backport process
<TheLordOfTime> i linked them to the wiki in the email
<TheLordOfTime> since i CBA to rewrite what's already on the wiki :P
<tumbleweed> :)
<TheLordOfTime> IMO they shouldn't have emailed the bugcontrol list about it, but *shrugs*
<TheLordOfTime> i did also offer to build-test it because i'm BORED
<TheLordOfTime> you know, in case they want to actually go through the whole backports thing
 * TheLordOfTime yawns
<tumbleweed> making it easy for new people to get started is always a good thing
<tumbleweed> we always need people, and don't want to turn them away
<TheLordOfTime> yep
<TheLordOfTime> i always tend to stick to what i know, though, so if it FTBFS as is i'm not digging in code
<TheLordOfTime> znc backport FTBFS, i can probably solve.
<TheLordOfTime> packages i don't keep under my wing (so to speak), less so.
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed:  know of a workaround so i can get dch to stop whining about this?  dch warning: Recognised distributions are: {hardy,lucid,maverick,natty,oneiric,precise,quantal} ...
 * TheLordOfTime is using backportpackage and uploading to a PPA so if he can fix it so it has one less warning that'd be good :P
<tumbleweed> TheLordOfTime: we made dch use distro-info
<tumbleweed> but I can't remember when
<TheLordOfTime> this is a precise system, was it sometime after precise?
<tumbleweed> 2.12.0 apparently
<tumbleweed> yes, after precise
<TheLordOfTime> bleh
<TheLordOfTime> that explains it
 * TheLordOfTime just ignores the warning then
<tumbleweed> you can edit /usr/bin/dch by hand :)
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed:  you're right, i can
 * TheLordOfTime groans'
<mfisch> I'd like an opinion on whether or not something i'm working on is SRU-worthy, anyone have 5 mins to discuss?
<tumbleweed> mfisch: the people who have final say are the SRU team, and such discussion tends to happen in #ubuntu-release, but sure
<mfisch> tumbleweed: this is a pre-discussion discussion, thanks
<mfisch> tumbleweed: there are some massive memory leaks in Rhythmbox
<mfisch> tumbleweed: I cherry picked some fixes for them from the upstream bug
<mfisch> tumbleweed: we're going to try it in Ubuntu for Android for a week or so
<mfisch> tumbleweed: the upstream code has been in-use for a year and applied cleanly (well with minor < 10 line fuzz)
<tumbleweed> sounds like a reasonable SRU candidate
<tumbleweed> can your reproduce it reliably?
<mfisch> yes
<tumbleweed> I'd say go for it
<mfisch> I had 50 tracks and cycled through them, although this is not my cleanest data set, check out the memory usage before and after
<mfisch> before: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5752689/
<mfisch> after: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5752687/
<tumbleweed> there has been talk about tighting the criteria for SRUs, but this seems a pretty reasonable bug fix
<mfisch> for hardcode music fans, RB will eventually cripple their box, I stream 1 stream all day, so I'm not as affected
<mfisch> tumbleweed: thanks for the feedback
<tumbleweed> generally speaking, a minimal patch and a easily-reproduced bug are SRUable
<tumbleweed> if the impact is significant
<mfisch> thanks again
<tumbleweed> np
<jtaylor> does pbuilder-dist work with sparc qemu chroots (from debian)?
<jtaylor> got '/debootstrap/debootstrap': No such file or directory
 * tumbleweed can't remember
<tumbleweed> need something tested on a porterbox?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> cd -
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-11
<dholbach_> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-12
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<fr33r1d3> dholbach: Where is the list with very easy bugs in Ubuntu?
<Unit193> !bitesize
<ubottu> A list of bugs that are considered easy to fix and good for beginners to attempt can be found at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<fr33r1d3> ok, thanx.
<dholbach> yeah what Unit193 said, or http://harvest.ubuntu.com/opportunities/?pkg=&opp.list=bitesize (which is a view on the same, but you can find other 'opportunities' there as well)
<shadeslayer> any chances gst 1.1.1 will get uploaded to saucy?
<Laney> a medium chanc
<Laney> e
<psusi> how long does it normally take for a package removal to get synced from debian?
<geser> psusi: I still think it's still a semi-automatic process as an archive admin has to run a script and ACK the removals
<geser> I'm not sure if modified packages need a removal bug or not
<psusi> ohh... so will they just do that on their own when they get around to it, or do I need to poke them?
<geser> they should get it on their own
<Rhonda> Poking for semi-automatic stuff is never a bad idea, it will make sure it won't get overlooked.
<Rhonda> But that's just my opinion.
<geser> you might want to check (if you care) in a couple (2-3) weeks if it already happened
<geser> but if the removal blocks you now, you might want to file a removal bug
<geser> that reminds me that I wanted to file a removal bug on a icedove extension that made into Ubuntu
<psusi> naw, just wanted to clear out all of the bugs against firestarter.. it can wait
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-13
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch_> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch_
<geser> good morning dholbach, good afternoon ajmitch_
<dholbach> hi geser
<jaalto> Whom can aswer about the property right of this icon? /usr/share/winetricks/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/winetricks.svg
<jaalto> I'd like to include it in Debian package, but I need clear copyright and author information
<jaalto> Related to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=708198
<ubottu> Debian bug 708198 in winetricks "Use a .desktop file and icon for easier winetricks launching" [Normal,Open]
<geser> jaalto: I'd point you to YokoZar (Scott Ritchie) but you've already mailed him in the bug
<jaalto> geser: I thought to ask him too. Thanks.
<mfisch> a former colleague now at a haberdashery company suggested that MOTUs need this shirt: http://shirt.woot.com/offers/meowster-of-the-universe
<Laney> :D
<mfisch> can someoen show me the LP page where I can see a package I dput being built?
<mfisch> I'm familiar with how it works for my team but not for something like saucy
<mfisch> I have this page, is that right?  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=
<Laney> mfisch: There's http://launchpad.net/builders and http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yourpackage(/yourversion)
<Laney> those are the main two pages i use
<Laney> oh, and the Accepted email you get back has a link
<jbicha> mfisch: from https://launchpad.net/~ click Related Packages and then click the version number you want
<Laney> and there's,  yeah, ~/+uploaded-packages
<Laney> SO MANY WAYS
<ogra_> mfisch, click the link in the mail you got from the upload
<mfisch> Laney: thansk
<mfisch> Laney: its a bit different in my org in Canonical
<Laney> I have a firefox quick bookmark thingy to ubuntu/+source
<mfisch> looks like it built, so thats good
<Laney> that's the one I use most often
<ogra_> oh,, Laney said that above
<Laney> e.g. lp gnome-terminal, click the link under latest upload
<mfisch> yay my first motu dput
 * ogra_ hugs mfisch 
<Laney> yay
<ogra_> congrats !!
 * Laney plays some Civ V in celebration
 * ogra_ remebers his first upload still .... nicotine ... :) 
<Laney> haha
 * Laney does not
<mfisch> account-fitbit-plugin
<mfisch> so glorious
 * Laney went to the end of his LP mailbox and found a load of ia64 ftbfs mails
<Laney> good days
<ogra_> haha
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-14
<dholbach> good morning
<mfisch> Laney: you around?
<Laney> mfisch: yeah
<Laney> sup?
<mfisch> Laney: so I had a SRU I started, and didi uploaded it to "unapproved", but I've been unable to find that queue to confirm it's there
<Laney> e.g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+queue?queue_state=1
<mfisch> gah, I had that link last week and lost it, thanks
<mfisch> there's my package
<mfisch> and I assume someone from the SRU team goes through this list every so often?
<geser> bookmark the page :)
<Laney> I sweear that used to be linked from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring
<Laney> it's in my address bar history
<geser> there are some pages in LP where it's easier to remember the URL than where the link to that page is
<ScottK> mfisch: That's correct.
<Laney> man, if that ever gets wiped
<mfisch> I had the saucy one and thought I had a bookmark
<ScottK> It is linked
<mfisch> good thing the Laneymark service is still working
<ScottK> Look at "All uploads" to the right of the latest uplaods.
<ScottK> It defaults to New rather than Unapproved, but you're on the right page.
<Laney> ah yes
<Laney> I thought it was on the right there
<mfisch> interesting that armhf is "unofficial"
<ScottK> It's not really.
<ScottK> It's on ports.ubuntu.com instead of archive.ubuntu.com, which used to map to official/unofficial, but doesn't anymore.
<Eggman2013> i installed ubuntu from a netinstall.  I only have to base system with console.  How do I get the desktop?
<ScottK> Eggman2013: What desktop do you want?
<Eggman2013> I think gnome
<Eggman2013> do you know why UNetbootin would install just the base system and not full ubuntu?
<Unit193> You can install ubuntu-gnome-desktop or gnome-shell, but this isn't so much of a support channel.
<ScottK> You probably want #ubuntu to discuss this, but sudo apt-get install ubuntu-gnome-desktop should get you what you're after.
<Laney> xnox: any reason the db5.3 changes can't go to debian?
<lifeless> win 83
<Unit193> /
<Laney> can someone manage to get git-buildpackage -S to produce a source package from git://git.debian.org/git/pkg-db/db6.0.git ? :(
 * Laney is failing bad
<jtaylor> Laney: works for me if you drop the bad patch (or fix it)
<Laney> fix it?
<Laney> I reverse applied it
<jtaylor> I dropped it from series and it worked
<Laney> I was hoping to keep it there
<Laney> but committing the patch -p1 -R breaks weirdly
<jtaylor> probably its applied in the orig tar?
<Laney> oh is that what happens in that case?
<jtaylor> diff to upstream shows no modification besides debian
<Laney> k
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-09
<Danatela> hi guys!
<Danatela> If I have dependency problem with a specific PPA, should I contact this PPA owner or someone else?
<Noskcaj> Danatela, PPA owner
<Danatela> thanks!
<Unit193> Logan_: MIA team was just contacting Jochen Friedrich, maintainer of Darkice.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-10
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning Daniel.
<Laney> hey iulian
<iulian> Hi there Laney.
<Laney> how's life?
<Laney> what are you up to these days?
<iulian> Life's not too bad at the moment. I've just finished my exams and I'm now working on my MSc thesis.
<iulian> How are things going over there?
<Laney> Not bad, trying to move to a bigger place where I can have a cat. ;)
<ogra_> ++
<iulian> Heh. :)
<Rhonda> Hmm, hitechnews.mobi does reproduce planet.ubuntu it seems (amongst others)
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-12
<AnAnt> Hello, does bilalakhtar come here ?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-13
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-14
<dogeydogey> Hi, can someone help me fixing a bug?
<jpds> dogeydogey: Depends on what the bug is.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-15
<VanJr> Anyone know who maintains the MySQL 5.6 ubuntu distro? That needs to get updated ASAP to get important bug fixes from MySQL. It's been 15 days since 5.6.19 release.
<infinity> VanJr: Try jamespage.
<VanJr> ty
<VanJr> @jamespage
<sladen> jamespage: bear it mind it's a Sunday
<sladen> jamespage: best thing to do is to file a bug, or send an email if jamespage is not immediately around
<VanJr> right.
<infinity> sladen: Odd nick highlighting there. :P
<VanJr> How do I get his email?
<sladen> jamespage: whever possible work is done in Debian;
<infinity> VanJr: File a bug, he'll get an email about it.
<VanJr> ok, @launchpad?
<infinity> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-5.6/+filebug
<VanJr> Got it, thank you.
<emma> No.
<emma> Has anyone here seen jdong around in a while?
<ScottK> emma: No.
<mark06> can anyone help with this? https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/249542
<ScottK> mark06: You want someone in #launchpad, I believe.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-08
<dholbach> good morning
<med_> infinity others: do any services need to be manually restarted after a tzdata (leapsecond) update? It doesn't seem to do any itself.
<infinity> med_: It's a more involved question than just that.  tzdata on its own doesn't fix anything, unless you use the alternate zonefiles.  The reason being that you'd end up with two leap seconds instead of one if you also use ntp, which will push the leap second to you.
<infinity> med_: But the short answer on any tzdata update (regardless of the reason) is that things that rely on accurate time should be checking the time occasionally.  Services that check the timezone on startup and never re-check will miss DST switches, etc.
<infinity> med_: So, we assume software is written correctly. :P
<med_> good point adam. thanks.
<infinity> med_: The best advice to give customers about the leap second is just "use ntp".  Any local workarounds (like using alternate zonefiles) are fiddly and annoying, especially if you have to touch many machines.
<med_> yep, we already rely on ntp
<med_> we got a support announcement from Ubuntu Advantage (and various other distros) that indicated we should be "proactive" about this... If NTP is doing the right thing, we're set.
<infinity> med_: But if you use an internal ntp server and your machines are all in sync, who cares if you remember to use a leapsecond file, being a second out from reality doesn't matter as long as all your network is in sync, and if you use an external ntp server, you'll just always be right, no matter what.
<med_> nodz
<infinity> med_: The big "be proactive" push from other vendors (*cough* RedHat *cough*) has less to do with tzdata and more to do with a nasty, nasty kernel bug that caused a panic on leap second insertion, so they're begging customers to upgrade kernels.
<infinity> med_: Ubuntu avoids that purely by luck, since that bug only exists in EOL releases.
<med_> nod, cough, understood.
<med_> but that was pretty old issue (dating from the last leapsecond aiui)
<infinity> Yeahp.
<infinity> But there are RHEL versions still in support that shipped with that bug.
 * med_ ain't running archaic kernels.
<infinity> And large corporate installations are infamous for installing and never updating.
<infinity> Cause that's super smart.
<med_> nor rhel, centos, fedora kernels.
 * ogra_ just waits for all the ubuntu phones out there going into panic reboots :P
<infinity> ogra_: I think the bug was fixed in early 3.x, IIRC.  Pretty sure all our 3.4 Android kernels of doom should have it fixed.  I hope.
<ogra_> you hope :)
<ogra_> they are 3.4 ... but they are BSP kernels :)
<infinity> Yeah, don't remind me.
<infinity> ogra_: OTOH, we don't run ntpd on phones, nor do we use realtime zonefiles, so nothing would be inserting the leap second in the first place.
<infinity> ogra_: Phones will all just end up a second behind reality until something ntpdateish skews them violently into the future, which doesn't trigger the bug.
<ogra_> we use ntpdate
<ogra_> (i think)
<infinity> Right, ntpdate is fine, since it's just a clock set call, not an insertion of leap seconds.
<ogra_> yep, we do
<ogra_> so latest at their next network switch they should be fine
<ogra_> it is just the hacked kernels that scare me :)
<infinity> They scare all of us.
<ogra_> but hey, we asked for it :P
<ogra_> (or someone did and we executed :) )
<infinity> I look forward to a future where we have enough power with our OEMs to demand GNU/Linux instead of Android drivers and can ditch those kernels.
<ogra_> yeah
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-09
<Unit193> barry: Oh hey, I think it's Monday, or was!  But I think you may have meant the one a week or two ago.  bzr-fastimport? :D
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> Is there an archive for oneiric somewhere?
<Rhonda> found it :)
<Rhonda> hmm, only the isos
<Laney> old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
<Laney> oneiric, srsly?
<Rhonda> don't ask and I won't tell you no lies
<ogra_> still better than breezy ;)
<micahg> yay, less than 800 backports requests open :)
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-10
<Unit193> slackner: Hi.
<slackner> Unit193: hiho?
<utlemming> hey, wondering if I could get someone to take a look at Bug #1459455?
<ubottu> bug 1459455 in Ubuntu Wily "[needs packaging] xe-guest-utils" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1459455
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-11
<slackner> micahg: ping?
<micahg> slackner: hi, I guess we haven't heard back
<micahg> I need to figure out what's next now...
<slackner> micahg: nope, unfortunately not :( no sign of life
<slackner> micahg: well, what do you suggest as the next steps?
<micahg> slackner: was the goal to be an alternative to wine in Ubuntu?
<slackner> micahg: yes, either as package which provides wine, or a package which can be installed independently
<DarkPlayer> micahg: from our point, both options are okay. Fedora replaced wine with wine staging about a year ago
<slackner> micahg: alternatively, it might also be possible to replace wine, but not sure if thats a good idea
<micahg> slackner: well, I can start by reviewing your package, do you have the bug # handy?
<micahg> oh, I've got it, bug 1437520
<ubottu> bug 1437520 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] wine staging" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437520
<micahg> Any interest in maintaining in Debian vs Ubuntu?
<micahg> oh, have to run, I'll be back in about 45 minutes
<micahg> if you have to run, I'll try to look at your package in the next day or so
<micahg> hrm
<micahg> no, probably won't be until the weekend
<micahg> already have others to review :(
<slackner> micahg: yep, thats the right one. the source (including packaging files) is available at: https://github.com/wine-compholio/wine-staging - i am pretty sure thought that it might need some changes, our package is a bit special to allow installation parallel to regular wine
<micahg> ok
<slackner> i'll still be there in 45 min, if you have time afterwards
<micahg> ok
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-12
<Unit193> Mirv: Oh hey, did you want to look into assaultcube/-data?
<Unit193> Also, for anyone that's worked with me.  I sent in my application for Xubuntu's packageset, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unit193/XubuntuPackageset if you wanted to add a last minute endorsement! ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-14
<micahg> hi siretart, is gnucash on your list of merges that you're interested in?  there's a libaqbanking transition in progress, so we need the new version from Debian
<Logan> $$$
<DarkPlayer> micahg: did you have time to take a look at the wine-staging package? (you talked with slackner on wednesday about it)
<micahg> DarkPlayer: no, that's on my list though
<DarkPlayer> the package needs some changes (replacing the prefix with /usr) etc., but what would be the further steps if we fixed that?
<micahg> needs 2 reviewers to sign off before uploading to Ubuntu, per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages#Going_through_MOTU
<DarkPlayer> micahg: is there any interest in us maintaining the package or do you want to leave this to the ubuntu devs?
<micahg> DarkPlayer: if you want to insure it gets updated, I suggest that you maintain it, the Ubuntu devs updating Ubuntu local packages is best effort only
<micahg> and there's a limited amount of resources
<micahg> you can eventually get upload rights for the package: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Per-package_Uploaders
#ubuntu-motu 2016-06-13
<Unit193> mapreri: Oooh, shiny new pbuilder.  You going to backport or should I request in ~5 days?
<Logan> Unit193: I don't either
<Unit193> Logan: Hmm.  Dput and worry later? :P
<Unit193> Also, pbuilder got 'eatmydata' support, though I presume you use sbuild.
<jbicha> could I get bug 1432271 bug 1484785 and bug 1586708 nominated for wily and xenial please?
<ubottu> bug 1432271 in One Hundred Papercuts "[SRU] Abiword always starts after logging in" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432271
<ubottu> bug 1484785 in abiword (Ubuntu) "language selector text cut off in abiword" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1484785
<ubottu> bug 1586708 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword icon has extra smaller icons included" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1586708
<Logan> Unit193: I use pbuilder, actually!
<Unit193> Logan: I'd try to get a backport to Xenial, but backports are backed up.  As far as fastimport, as I said I've been using it in crontab for months, it gives a much better representation of the bzr repo under git than the current one.  The MP upstream is held, and I poked the Debian maintainer who didn't seem very interested.
<mapreri> Unit193: i don't even know the process to do backports in ubuntu, and i'm not interested in doing them (as i don't quite use ubuntu myself).  but if you would like doing them, please do! :)
<mapreri> Unit193: though i'm going to bpo it to jessie-bpo in debian, yes.
<Unit193> mapreri: Oh heh, sorry.  My bad there, though good to know bpo.
#ubuntu-motu 2016-06-16
<Unit193> Would I subscribe sponsors to a bug report where a no-change rebuild would fix it?
#ubuntu-motu 2016-06-18
<Logan> Unit193: sure!
<Unit193> Good, because I did earlier today. :P
 * Logan looks
<Logan> oh, and there are other things I'm supposed to do for you, right? :P
<Unit193> Yep! :D
<Logan> Unit193: it's easier to sponsor no-change rebuilds if you attach a debdiff
<Logan> unless you don't want credit in the changelog
<Unit193> Yeah, but it's kind of pointless.  And I'm fine without it.
<Logan> ok
<Logan> I commented on the bug
<Unit193> IIRC 2 on sponsors, one not.
<Unit193> Weird, got no messages.
<Unit193> Done.
#ubuntu-motu 2017-06-17
<Unit193> mapreri: What the heck?  This doesn't make sense: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gocryptfs/1.3-1/+build/12762428 vs https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+build/12760009
<Unit193> Looks like golang-github-jacobsa-crypto-dev is out of date based on the error..
<Unit193> I have no possible way of testing s390x though.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-06-11
<zcot> Hi all, I was hoping I could get a review of this packaging attempt. The goal is to put it up as a ppa and get some feedback and work from there: https://code.launchpad.net/~zcotcaudle/+junk/list-apt-installs
<zcot> I do wonder, in many packages I see where source and package names are named for example "name" and "name-dev"(in debian/control file). Is this a necessity, should I be concerned about that?
<zcot> also, can someone point to some cycle info or something about the general development path using a project with packaging. I see so many projects on github with a /debian packaging tree within the source but I was under the impression it is better to keep source and packaging separated. I feel like as long as it's under bazaar control the source will always retain each packaging increment, so that should be good there. What's the idea with this?
<rbasak> zcot: packaging-wise it looks fine. I would probably add a Depends on apt without apt the program cannot work at all.
<rbasak> zcot: a -dev package isn't necessary as you aren't shipping a C library.
<rbasak> zcot: I'm not sure whether a new source in the Ubuntu archive is appropriate for this though.
<rbasak> zcot: or that a C program is particularly maintainable to solve this problem
<rbasak> zcot: it'd increase the proliferation of uncoordinated apt-related tools in the archive. Better to work with apt upstream or similar and get the same functionality shipped inside there or a related existing package (like the same place add-apt-repository is shipped).
<rbasak> zcot: also there's no manpage or other on-system usage documentation that I can see.
<rbasak> zcot: I suggest talking to apt maintainers in the first instance, or failing that consider adding this functionality to software-properties-common (to join add-apt-repository) or perhaps something in relation to an apport hook.
<rbasak> zcot: it generally works better to keep a separate packaging branch that adds the debian/ directory. Otherwise tweaks to the debian directory have to land in master, which bumps it, which means that you have to bump the upstream version number in packaging and end up in a loop.
<zcot> rbasak: Thank you. That all seems like good and useful info. upstream seems good, I was too far downstream using a backup scheme tool to see it.
<zcot> the -dev name thing. well in this case i was thinking -source (or whatever), but just for the idea that the source package is different, but I guess they are distributed based on the user choice so in the end it doesn't matter.. either a user can get the source or the binary.
<rbasak> zcot: source package names exist in a separate namespace from binary package names. In the typical case for a simple package, the source package name is identical to the binary package name.
<zcot> rbasak: I appreciate the feedback. I'll keep working on this thing. (well even there is no "system usage" to be documented other than invocation. lol)
<rbasak> zcot: thanks. This sort of thing might be quite useful in an apport hook too. Ubuntu bug triagers will thank you for it.
<zcot> rbasak: ok. great. that's what I was thinking, but wasn't sure about the naming. but they are really different so the name isn't a clash.
<zcot> rbasak: yea, I'll have to dig further on that one. ;) -no just winging a few lines together and call it done. lol
<zcot> rbasak: as for "Depends" I was thinking that was strictly in line with building and running, which apt is not required. so is this a case for checking into Recommends and Suggested related section? or it truly should Depend on apt and/or apt-get (it honestly would be useless without them).
<zcot> that's deeper into good package management I guess, of which I have only scarcely touched the basics of at this point.
<rbasak> That's a good reason to make it Recommends I suppose.
<rbasak> Especially if the program is capable of examining apt logs from other systems (eg. with a path override on where it looks).
<zcot> ah! ok, excellent. :) Thank you again rbasak.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-06-15
<Unit193> tsimonq2: Up, you popped up. plz2sync numlockx.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Sure. *insert usual nag here*
<Unit193> Not entirely sure if LP has picked it up yet.
<tsimonq2> I think so.
<tsimonq2> Check -changes.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/numlockx it has.
<tsimonq2> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/numlockx/1.2-7.1
<Unit193> Thanks.
<tsimonq2> No problem.
<Unit193> >Monday Jun 18th 2018 19:00 UTC
<Unit193> Pity, that one is doable. :P
<Unit193> tsimonq2: The meeting calendar only has up to the next meeting, are any more scheduled?
<tsimonq2> Unit193: I'm not sure.
<Unit193> Also the agenda had "sort out ACLs", was this done? :P
<tsimonq2> It was. :P
<Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Logs is sliiightly behind.
<tsimonq2> rbasak, cyphermox: Hi. ^^^ Is that intentional, or just due to accidental neglect (nobody caring)?
<Unit193> (Linked at the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda)
#ubuntu-motu 2018-06-16
<rbasak> tsimonq2: "Newer logs can be found on http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2
<rbasak> "
<rbasak> tsimonq2: in my time on the DMB we've never kept any logs apart from the irclogs ones.
<rbasak> Unit193, tsimonq2: we put the dates in the agenda to try to avoid ambiguity as it isn't obvious to applicants (IMHO) where else to look. But the actual meetings are just on a regular schedule - every two weeks alternating between the two times - so you can extrapolate future meeting dates.
<rbasak> As long as you extrapolate correctly, feel free to add more future dates :)
<tsimonq2> OK :)
<tsimonq2> Thanks.
<Unit193> Aha, thanks.
