#ubuntu-discuss 2013-02-25
<dward> hello
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-02-26
<AlanBell> so, who is going to attend the first remote UDS?
<IdleOne> I'll check it out for sure, like I always do remotely
<IdleOne> Little sad though. This means i probably won't ever get to meet in person some people I always wanted to shake hands with.
<AlanBell> yeah, that is the sad part for me too
<AlanBell> bunch of people I will probably never meet, and some I will probably never meet again
<AlanBell> I would like it if they did a pay-to-attend conference at some stage
<AlanBell> so totally different content
<AlanBell> not a "come and work for free" thing
<AlanBell> I used to pay thousands to go to conferences
<IdleOne> maybe they will revisit this and decide to do in person UDS for LTS releases
<IdleOne> that would be 1 every 2 years, little more financially digestible for them?
<IdleOne> Just seems to me that it makes sense to get your best people together in one room every now and then
<pleia2> AlanBell: too short notice :(
<pleia2> I have a day job and all
<IdleOne> how did this affect your day job?
<pleia2> IdleOne: a week is not enough time to schedule time off
<IdleOne> oh, you won't be able to participate as much :/
<JoseeAntonioR> same here with school, I start on Monday
<AlanBell> pleia2: yeah, this is really short notice
<IdleOne> its almost like they don't want too many people actually involved
<AlanBell> bit of an odd format for it as an online event, 8 things in parallel
<AlanBell> the reason for doing lots of tracks in parallel in person is that everyone is there, you have to occupy them
<AlanBell> for online it could have been done in a much more spread out way
<popey> i am not convinced UDS will never be in-person again
<AlanBell> popey is rarely negative, but when he is, it is a double negative \o/
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-03-01
<Kurdistan> Hi I really hope the idea of rolling release and LTS will be reality. Rolling release that support last point release of every libreoffice would be best instead of supporting every LO release. For beginning of every new LO it is a bit buggy. It shapes well in the last point release of a release.
<ikonia> enjoy your unstable platform
<Kurdistan> ikonia, :) I will stay with LTS but it is sad that only firefox/thunderbird gets new release (application rolling release) in LTS and no other application.
<ikonia> Kurdistan: if you are going to stay with LTS - why do you hope the rolling release happens ?
<Kurdistan> ikonia, :) maybe because I will install it on other computer?
<ikonia> Kurdistan: so you won't be using LTS
<Kurdistan> ikonia, rolling release does not mean unstable. that is wrong argument.
<Kurdistan> ikonia, :) rolling release on one and lts on one in the future :).
<ikonia> Kurdistan: oh, so you think a package that's intergrated into a release that only changes every 6 months and has months of testing on that static platform, are more stable then packages that are built in a week and deployed to a moving platform ?
<Kurdistan> ikonia, yeah I feel interim release are rushed and unpolished example 12.10. crap that did not have linux-headers that made issue for many.
<ikonia> right, so rushing even more and using a moving platform is that likely to make it better tested and more stable or less
<Kurdistan> ikonia, :) I think 13.04 is even more stable then 12.10 right now.
<ikonia> that's not what I asked
<Kurdistan> ikonia, rolling release for me it means ready when it is ready. It does not mean you the developer must rush with newest package for the sake of bleeding edge.
<ikonia> that's the point of rolling
<ikonia> to keep it up to date
<Kurdistan> ikonia, so you think it is good that ubuntu right now support 4 desktop release?
<Kurdistan> with lts and rolling release there will only bee 2
<ikonia> yes
<ikonia> because they don't really support them
<ikonia> they release them and dump them
<Kurdistan> ikonia, :) have you been using any rolling release?
<ikonia> only the LTS version get real update, the rest goes into the next distribution
<ikonia> I don't use rolling releases for real life day to day use
<Kurdistan> ikonia, they do support then. interim release supports for 18 month.
<ikonia> Kurdistan: let me know when a non-lts product got a version update
<Kurdistan> ikonia, how do you mean? do you mean ubuntu does not tell there user the truth about supporting interim release 18 month?
<ikonia> they support it in the sense that fixes can be provided
<ikonia> but in reality, nothing changes
<ikonia> minor bugs are fixed
<ikonia> or very little
<Kurdistan> ikonia, oki.
<Kurdistan> ikonia, thx for your time.
<popey> 09:17:52 < ikonia> Kurdistan: let me know when a non-lts product got a version update
<popey> we ship updates to quantal all the time
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/quantal-changes/2013-February/thread.html
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-03-03
<tashs> hey..............anyone up?
<IdleOne> kinda
<tashs> kinda means you should be asleep
<IdleOne> not necessarily, it could mean i just woke up not long ago and still getting my bearings
<tashs> ok..ok...this is true
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-02-29
<lotuspsychje> morning dax, your new op here, didnt see you around before?
<dax> <-- rww
<lotuspsychje> ohhh
<lotuspsychje> dax: is that due to council recently?
<dax> i seem to switch back and forth between the two nicks every few years :\
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-03-01
<lotuspsychje> Tm_T: morning
<lotuspsychje> Tm_T: all ok with the meizu now?
<Tm_T> hi yes
<lotuspsychje> great
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> fine mate tnx
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: tell me what you think if this barebone company i found? http://config.nexoc.de/
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: never heard of nexoc before
<lotuspsychje> me neither
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but i found default all disabled very attractive
<EriC^^> do you know anybody that has one of them?
<lotuspsychje> no Os, no Hd
<EriC^^> aha
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: no
<EriC^^> wth it's expensive
<EriC^^> ?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but i think they are clevo devices
<EriC^^> 870euro for i5
<EriC^^> i thought it's like alibaba
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: yeah but the problem is i need it barebone
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: this is the most configurable company i found
<lotuspsychje> yet
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: and i also need it close to belgiump for delivery
<EriC^^> if it's expensive though you should i dunno man
<EriC^^> like people might not get it, or they'd get more hp dell etc
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: oh well, ill keep on searching then
<EriC^^> unless you can get a really awesome deal, and you're sure of the build quality and stuff then i guess i dunno
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: the problem is i just dont want machines with a win license on the back
<EriC^^> yeah
<lotuspsychje> i need it clean, no Os, no hd
<EriC^^> and no ssd/hdd right?
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> im gonna tweak those myself
<lotuspsychje> 850 pro
<EriC^^> if you can score a deal with somebody in hp or dell etc or something
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: well thats another problem, i need not a whole lot, but 1 machine at the time, quick delivery
<EriC^^> if you know somebody who works there or i dunno somebody who already buys them from them with no os
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i also dont wanna be part of a reseller, just quick 1by1 delivery
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> there has to be some stuff like this i'm sure
<EriC^^> here i think they get laptops with no windows many times
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: hard to find, i found also msi whitebooks, but only usa
<EriC^^> and they used to install the cracked windows on them i think
<EriC^^> if there's somebody who does that you can maybe email him and get in on it
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<EriC^^> i was browsing a laptop site for leb recently and they had a laptop that said "os of your choice"
<EriC^^> not sure if it was refurbished or not, let me check
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: kk tnx
<EriC^^> cant find it
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: np mate ill keep on browsing stuff
<EriC^^> this is a list of companies that sell laptops without os or with linux, there might be good deals, it's a little outdated though ( 2009 )
<EriC^^> http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/
<lotuspsychje> ok tnx
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-03-02
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^
<lordievader> Good morning.
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<lotuspsychje> fine mate, slow on coffee :p
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-03-03
<nicomachus> Chrome repos throwing errors at anyone else tonight?
<nicomachus> http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/dists/stable/Release unreachable
<Bashing-om> I see, I ran updates early this AM, no problems .
<nicomachus> getting it on 2 machines on different networks. :/
<nicomachus> 2 different releases, too. 14.04 and 15.10.
<Bashing-om> yepper " W: Failed to fetch http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/dists/stable/Release " On a Oregon mirror .
<nicomachus> bahh. stupid google.
<Bashing-om> maybe under attack .? Tol they say .. who knows .. lemme check what the status of google server is .
<nicomachus> if someone has the ability to take down a google server via DDOS or whatever... then they're truly good at their craft.
<daftykins> that reminds me, i need to disable pingbacks on wordpress
<Bashing-om> Well .. I am being lied to " It's just you. http://dl.google.com is up. " .
<nicomachus> daftykins: wordpress? whyyyy
<daftykins> nothing wrong with wordpress, just often people don't keep it or plugins up to date
<nicomachus> well that's true.
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/new-doom-game-runs-great-in-linux-with-wine-users-report-501252.shtml
<Ben64> are they not making linux port?
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: not sure, batman is also canceled for linux
<lotuspsychje> game devs need to realize linux gonna grow bigger following years
<Ben64> i stopped buying non linux games
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: those steam machines are pretty interesting, but rather expensive
<Ben64> the good thing is you don't need them
<Ben64> you can just use a computer
<lotuspsychje> true
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: might be a good idea actually, try to imitate the steam boxes with cheaper ubuntu gaming barebones or so
<lotuspsychje> put the steam controller on it, done
<Ben64> yeah
<Ben64> i'm hoping it takes off
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-03-04
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning.
<cfhowlett> errrrrrrr, nope.  greetings.  (evening in Tokyo)
<lordievader> cfhowlett: Was it a good day?
<cfhowlett> indeed it twas!  Had a nice walk from the electronics district back to work ...
<lordievader> :)
<lordievader> Is Akiba as fancy as they say?
<cfhowlett> it's just short of incredible.  you gotta see it to believe it.
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: sorry i wake you, he might got into uefi twilight zone lol
<EriC^^> lol, np
<EriC^^> where's daftykins btw? and tj?
<lotuspsychje> no clue, oerhaks dissapeared also
<EriC^^> hmm
<lotuspsychje> weird stuff going on
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: What card(s) is monsterjamp got ? Legacy such that no FGLRX driver is available ?
<EriC^^> Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV620/M82 [Mobility Radeon HD 3450/3470]
<daftykins> ouch, that's a highly legacy card :)
<daftykins> radeon driver only, for sure
<dax> i have one sitting in a closet. works nicely with radeon
<dax> although mine isn't mobility so eh
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> it's probably hybrid to boot, just to make EriC^^'s day :D
<daftykins> EriC^^: hi btw :D hope you're well!
<EriC^^> hi daftykins, you too!
<EriC^^> i'm pretty much over my head here
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Kitchen chores .. yeah .. "  [Mobility Radeon HD 3450/3470] " no FGLKRX for him .
<EriC^^> wish i knew more about the xorg problems
<EriC^^> i barely know a thing or 2
<daftykins> if in doubt purge that sucker from orbit, it's the only way to be sure :)
<daftykins> EriC^^: is it a hybrid machine or is that the only adapter? which ubuntu?
<EriC^^> he's removed fglrx
<EriC^^> wily, i think it's the only adapter
<EriC^^> maybe try an older kernel?
<daftykins> double check all fglrx related components got purged, i've seen even the most irrelevant package persist and prevent the radeon open source driver working
<daftykins> also, sometimes we see those users with linux-image-extra missing for the running kernel - which lacks some of the components too :)
<EriC^^> oh
<daftykins> so a "dpkg -l | grep fglrx" and a "dpkg -l | grep linux-"
<EriC^^> good idea
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: The only version of the kernel for that  [Mobility Radeon HD 3450/3470] is in release 12.04.1 .. after .1 the xserver is no longer compatible .
<EriC^^> oh, how did you find that out?
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: F its an HD 2x/3x/4x then you are out of luck as AMD announced <last> summer that it is relegating these chipsets to legacy status and will not be developing new drivers for them. Existing restricted drivers from AMD won't work either, because they require X-server v1.12 and Ubuntu 12.10 uses X-server v1.13.
<Bashing-om> That's because, starting with Ubuntu 12.04.2, the X-server version was updated to a newer version that is now incompatible with the HD 2x/3x/4x series AMD cards.
<daftykins> *nod* and in fact now cards up to HD 7xxx are in the second wave of 'legacy'
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Would you like my procedure to purge FGLRX and make sure that radeon installs correctly ? will pastebin it .
<Bashing-om> Back to the kitchen .. back here soonest .
<EriC^^> ok
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: See what ya think : http://paste.ubuntu.com/15283773/ .
<EriC^^> ok, thank you very much!
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: U have had to resort to that procedure more than one to clean up after such a condition you are dealing with to get radeon to install ..make sure the OP removes those bad boot parameters !
<dax> line 5 is pointless, apart from that looks fine
<EriC^^> ok, i will
<EriC^^> i have a lot to learn about xorg stuff
<dax> radeon's built in to the linux-image-* packages and distributed as a binary package because it's open-source, so dkms isn't used by it
<daftykins> the comments convey this imo
<dax> sure, but it makes about as much sense as, like, installing nethack-console there :P
<Bashing-om> dax: Yeah .. maybe ... I run an old ATI card .. and DKMS is installed on my system .. as said, cheap insureance .
<daftykins> dax: next you'll be arguing about cowsay being used in there! ;)
<dax> excuse me cowsay is an integral part of any well-running system
<daftykins> * EriC^^ supplies the instructions with the addition of: cowsay "Brought to you by Bashing-om!"
<EriC^^> lol :D
<dax> one of my servers at work has "exec /usr/games/fortune | /usr/games/cowsay" in /etc/update-motd.d/99-footer
<dax> with the bofh fortune package installed :3
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Yall have no idea how inadaquate I often feel . When I can do, I do .
<daftykins> Bashing-om: oh i hope i didn't appear rude there, i just wanted to bring a comedy angle to justified commands :D
<daftykins> *justified vs. unjustified
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Oh no .. Took it as a compliment .. just making sure that "compliment" was not over-rated .
<daftykins> ah :D
<Bashing-om> chores, back on a bit .
<daftykins> yip supermarket run for me, back soon \o
<EriC^^> bye
<Bashing-om> OK; doggies all taken care of for the naunce.
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-03-05
<lotuspsychje> morning
<JamesT1995> Hey guys, I need help. I used to own a couple od the original Ubuntu CDs that used to be shipped by ShipIt, but unfortunately I lost them while moving. Is there any chance to obtain them again (including old releases)? I know that ShipIt has been canceled :-(
<lordievader> Good morning.
<JamesT1995> Good morning to you too
<lordievader> o/
<BluesKaj> 'Morning all
<lotuspsychje> afternoon
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey
<EriC^^> what's up?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: just arrived after dinner
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> hi cfhowlett, hows that wallpaper contest ended?
<cfhowlett> done!
<cfhowlett> Lemme post the link ...
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: got url of the winners?
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, have a peek  https://www.flickr.com/groups/2969175@N22/pool/
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: nice1
<cfhowlett> yeah, I'm pretty pleased with the outcome.
<cfhowlett> doesn't compare to ubuntu-kylin though. those guys put serious design into their desktop!
<cfhowlett> one of their designers made "fire wheel" for us
<lotuspsychje> yeah that one is cool
<cfhowlett> remember "how fast does your PC boot" video from a few years back?  that guy did the lego ubuntustudio wallpaper
<lotuspsychje> yeah that movie still hides in / somewhere
<lotuspsychje> i was looking for a promo ubuntu video like that, but longer
<cfhowlett> hey, send your request to #ubuntustudio!
<EriC^^> perfect one would be like 1 sec boot
<EriC^^> pc is started, ubuntu loads
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: lol with all the ssd's lately
<EriC^^> then it says in the middle of the screen "Yeah, that just happened"
<cfhowlett> I think my dell m3800 has a 3 second boot screen
<lotuspsychje> wow
<lotuspsychje> plymouth doesnt stand a chance then!
<EriC^^> my arch install is really quick to boot
<lotuspsychje> this is why we love linux so much :p
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: did you tweak fstab also?
<EriC^^> no
<EriC^^> it's on a usb too
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: ah yeah, you told me earlier
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: no bottlenecks?
<EriC^^> it freezes sometimes (many times)
<EriC^^> i dont use it though so it's ok
<lotuspsychje> for a take-away Os might serve some good
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: im planning to make an ubuntu pentest box also
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: install all official/available pentesting packages on it
<EriC^^> aha
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: might be handy to find security holes on the road on networks
<EriC^^> yeah, any news on the barebones?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: well for now i got like 3 companys with interest laptopsplus.nl bto.com and nexoc
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but all prices are rather high for barebones
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: https://www.bto.eu/alle-laptops.html
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: https://www.laptopplus.nl/categorieen/laptops
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: why don't you get a hp laptop with a ssd installed that you want + no os if possible?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: from where
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: most configurators doesnt have the samsung 850 pro
<EriC^^> it says laptop hdd's add $50
<lotuspsychje> that one got 10 years warranty
<lotuspsychje> so i only want that type inside
<lotuspsychje> from 128 till 1gig
<EriC^^> hmm
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i also cant buy windows pre-installed pc's because ill brake warranty by opening the case putting ssd myself
<EriC^^> there's some really cheap stuff on alibaba
<lotuspsychje> and own Os
<EriC^^> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Ultra-Slim-13-3-Laptop-Without_60151092503.html?spm=a2700.7724857.29.73.Sx4eOG
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<EriC^^> i wonder if you hit this guy up, for like 10 how much they'll cost
<EriC^^> i think they're like $100/laptop or something
<lotuspsychje> wow
<EriC^^> they're pretty much i'd guess
<EriC^^> looks like a dell / hp knock-off
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: what if if warrant, i have to send them back to china?
<EriC^^> http://message.alibaba.com/msgsend/contact.htm?action=contact_action&domain=1&id=60151092503&id_f=IDX1eRWjQbt1RWJzqZeRHQFGSa6puqEpy3x3lzKAKFAZt80hfRJ2JLla7wO3P-yvJvV0&mloca=main_en_detail&tracelog=tracedetailfeedback&umidToken=Bd5a2dfddcc01a809dbdf993d3713c2a2
<EriC^^> i dont think they have a warranty
<EriC^^> it's like $100 / laptop :p
<lotuspsychje> right
<EriC^^> if it's ok quality then why not
<EriC^^> get 10 for like $1000
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: lol
<EriC^^> and see how they hold up
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: well i dont wanna be the cheapest around, but have some cheaper models also
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i need in the first place a quick reseller, that can send me stuff in 1-2 days
<EriC^^> well yeah, i mean if the quality is acceptable
<EriC^^> cause anyways the others aren't brands
<EriC^^> and if this is like the same as hp stuff
<EriC^^> then why not
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<lotuspsychje> ill have to think this trough a bit
<lotuspsychje> i dont wanna be like system76 for sure
<EriC^^> cause i went to get parts for my laptop once, and the guy gave me a cheap part that was very cheap
<lotuspsychje> high end, high prices
<EriC^^> so i was surprised at the price and thought it's not good
<EriC^^> and he said all the parts are chinese anyways, even in the original, it's all chinese
<lotuspsychje> yeah think system76 is alos taiwan or korea
<lotuspsychje> also
<EriC^^> you could have some cheap models
<EriC^^> and also more expensive ones
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: hmm good idea to combine
<EriC^^> dont depend on quick reseller
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: why's that
<EriC^^> it's better to have the stuff there always like ahead by a little of your usual orders
<EriC^^> like you get 7-10 a week, you make sure you have like 12 or so always
<EriC^^> per week
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: well in business school they teach us, to have 0 stock
<EriC^^> first costumers love quick responses
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: as brands get out of date fast, and if nobody wants them anymore= loose money
<EriC^^> second the reseller might not be able to ship or something then you take longer to ship
<EriC^^> it looks bad on you
<lotuspsychje> right
<EriC^^> hmm dunno anything about business (like any classes or education)
<EriC^^> but it makes sense to like keep ahead of stuff
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: well the more of stock one has, the more passive money it is
<lotuspsychje> is what they teached us
<EriC^^> especially since you wont be making custom stuff
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: well im surely gonna have always 10 ssd's in house
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: as i will be doing upgrades of existing w1n machines
<EriC^^> yeah i think it wont be bad
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: convincing right for 100-200 new fast laptop with ubuntu
<EriC^^> they'll always sell you know
<EriC^^> i'd keep like 2-3 at least more than usual order
<lotuspsychje> ok bbl mate coffee time
<lotuspsychje> tnx for the hints EriC^^
<EriC^^> i think first it'll be a little hard then you'll have it down to a science almost
<EriC^^> once you start selling and stuff
<EriC^^> sure
<EriC^^> :p
<lotuspsychje> ;p
<Bashing-om> Made a system change, rebooting to see that the change takes effect. brb .
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-03-06
<Bashing-om> Enough fun for 1 session - Time to call it as I am making errors .
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-02-27
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> guys, hide !!!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> oh.. hi lotus :-D
<lotuspsychje> early bird again
<OerHeks> Yes, i blame Drabber for waking me up again
<lotuspsychje> poor dog :p
<lotuspsychje> morning Dragon64
<lotuspsychje> laterz guys, working week
<ducasse> morning all
<lotus-work> ducasse: can you log this ip forr me next time i join?
<ducasse> lotus-work: sure, just ping me
<lotus-work> tnx
<lotus-work> have a nice one mate working : p
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<ducasse> good morning, BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning ducasse
<baizon> macht sich da etwa jemand bereit fÃ¼r einen krieg...? http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/donald-trump-will-verteidigungsetat-massiv-erhoehen-a-1136541.html
<baizon> sorry wrong channel :D
<nacc> baizon: heh
<ducasse> i just read "donald trump.." and immediately lost interest :)
<nacc> baizon: i mean, yes, it does
<baizon> yeah sorry guys :D
<baizon> didnt want to bring this topic up :D
<OerHeks> a guy who skipped Vietnam with draft status 4F, can be POTUS  ..
<OerHeks> *hips*  lets install mint
 * OerHeks ducks
<nicomachus> ugh
<nicomachus> mint
<nicomachus> gross
<OerHeks> next: Elementary
<OerHeks> readingtime .. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/27/linux_on_windows_10_creators_update/
<EriC^^> welcome Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> Hey EriC^^ .. Good day ? That azelight (sp?) desktop issue . After all our hard work to remove HWE he turns around and attempts to reinstall the HWE, real mess now .
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: damn
<EriC^^> :D
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Yeah ! He did come back to ask for further guidance, I looked . and passed on it this time ( last night ) . PPAs and 32 bit packages - yuk .
<EriC^^> yup it was a big mess
<ducasse> Bashing-om: he's BACK! ;-)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Annnddd back again ! .. Away from the keyboard for just a spell . Lemme catch back up :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i think you got lucky and missed him
<Bashing-om> Oh, well -- what goes around comes around .. *this* beats jig-saw and cross-word puzzles .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i'd rather do crosswords than help a guy fix something just so he can break it again in the same way
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Uh Huh - I did express some peeve at him for such an action , all that hard work for what ??
<ducasse> Bashing-om: let's see what happens now, he suddenly just went *poof*
<Bashing-om> Oh, I bet he is back .. let him sonsider for a while about how he breaks the system . Find better to be a system admin . ( we are here also to teach )
<ducasse> he got yelled at by more than one person, so that might have given him something to think about :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Yeah ! Sttil reading .. good stuff - almost to that point of terminatin of updates in the channel. I just turned my back for a few moments, and look at all I come back to :P
<ducasse> Bashing-om: ok, have a good one - i need sleep. ttyl!
<Bashing-om> ducasse: K; we got to sleep to live . I look for ya on the flip .
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-02-28
 * nacc takes a deep breath and walks away from virtually punching UserUS in the face
<Bashing-om> sometimes, that is just what we do --- walk away .
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> heya lotuspsychje ...
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks
<OerHeks> 2 hrs early ?
<lotuspsychje> yeah i had enough sleep so it seems, bright n shine
<OerHeks> Drabber is barking @ you ..
<lotuspsychje> lol
 * lotuspsychje throws a frolic to drabber
<OerHeks> watching episode 3/59 of Elementary
<lotuspsychje> dont know that1
<OerHeks> ex drug addict cop  & female surgeon that killed a patient helps police with solving crimes
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> sounds a bit like the killing
<nacc> american remake of sherlock :)
<OerHeks> indeed
<OerHeks> english accent in NY ;-)
<nacc> lotuspsychje: so it's a little different than the killing :)
<nacc> lotuspsychje: have you see 'the fall'?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: or 'top of the lake'? both are very killing-esque
<lotuspsychje> nacc: no, didnt see both
<lotuspsychje> crime solving series are always a hit
<nacc> lotuspsychje: if you enjoyed the killing, i recommend those both, interesting but unique each
<lotuspsychje> nacc: tnx, ill try them
<OerHeks> I like the Oscars :-D
<lotuspsychje> anyone seen robot s2 ?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: about halfway through now
<nacc> lotuspsychje: takes an (even) darker turn
<nacc> so my wife and I dont' overindulge :)
<nacc> OerHeks: the Oscars were pretty great to watch live this year
<lotuspsychje> nacc: ill watch it too then :p
<OerHeks> hilarious, i do not watch such events, but read the news .. 2 envelopes???
<nacc> OerHeks: yeah :)
<lotuspsychje> nacc: did you see who am i, the german hacker movie?
<lotuspsychje> https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2017/02/26/the-fastest-graphics-card-in-the-world-will-be-unveiled-in-two-days/#7e1ac96732ff
<Bashing-om> As I fear too much of a good thing, terminate now. G nite
<ducasse> morning all
<lordievader> Good morning.
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> i just /join #goldfish , nothing there so i joined #fish
<EriC^^> then i'm like great i found something
<EriC^^> EriC^^> hey guys
<EriC^^> <EriC^^> i have 2 goldfish, even though i just change the water, they keep going to the surface and gulping for air, they started doing it, they weren't at first
<ducasse> didn't expect shell users? :)
<EriC^^> then i read the topic, and it says fishshell.com and it hits me :D
<ducasse> lol
<EriC^^> lol no, such a facepalm moment
<EriC^^> i said 'oh my god' 'nevermind' nobody responded though
<ducasse> probably thought you were trolling :)
<EriC^^> haha yeah probably
<EriC^^> i cant figure out the goldfish problem though
<EriC^^> i had to put a couple tuberwear plastics at the surface so they dont gulp for air anymore
<ducasse> EriC^^: but when they go to the surface like that, i thought that was pretty normal.
<EriC^^> they can get swim bladder disease if they keep gulping
<EriC^^> no, they're supposed to just do it if the water doesn't have much oxygen or very dirty or overcrowding
<EriC^^> there swim bladders fill with air and then they can't swim right anymore and stuff if they do that
<EriC^^> *their
<ducasse> ah, ok.
<ducasse> shouldn't you have a pump to circulate air in the water?
<EriC^^> yeah it would help, i'm changing the water daily though in the morning and at night, with a pump it should go for like a week maybe i guess
<EriC^^> they're doing it with fresh water though immediately, at first thehy only did it when the water was old like at midnight if i didnt change the water i saw them gulping and change it
<EriC^^> odd
<ducasse> well, at least you've managed to keep them alive for a few days so far :)
<EriC^^> maybe they're bored or something?
<EriC^^> i'm also not letting them eat right now cause they overate or something and they had buldgy organs
<ducasse> don't ask me, my goldfish knowledge is severely limited :)
<EriC^^> maybe that's it, they're hungry as hell and doing that
<EriC^^> hehe it did start after the fasting though
<EriC^^> i'll feed them some veggies, it's good for their tummies
<ducasse> they will eat anything you put in there, it's not like they stop when they're full
<EriC^^> yeah that's right
<ducasse> that's about all i know :)
<BluesKaj> HI folks
<ducasse> morning BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning ducasse
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<Bigbootyjudy> im drunk whats going to happen to me at work tomorrow with a hangover?
<pauljw> no worries, there's always another fast food joint hiring...
<BluesKaj> suggest, go home and sleep it off :-)
<BluesKaj> an drunk this early in the morning??
<BluesKaj> and
<BluesKaj> what's  new pauljw ?
<pauljw> not much, wet here today.  how about you?
<BluesKaj>  cloudy and threatening rain
<BluesKaj> trying debian again ..kinda like it
<ducasse> debian is nice, but the ubuntu release cycle suits me better
<pauljw> :)
<ducasse> new software every six months is just right :)
<BluesKaj> still have kubuntu zesty beta 1 installed for testing , but i'm not spending much time on it atm
<pauljw> i prefer the lts releases, i'm not into constant upgrades.
<BluesKaj> yeah, usually keep a stable version as the main OS, but even debian stretch testing is already very solid
<pauljw> nice
<BluesKaj> there's also a good support bunch in their chat
<ducasse> their mailing lists are also excellent
<BluesKaj> some familiar nicks from the past
<BluesKaj> and a couple of jerks, which is par for the course :-)
<Bashing-om> OK, back , I am ready to have fun :D
<Th3_ghost> Bashing-om: Hi
<Bashing-om> Th3_ghost: Hello, to what do I owe the honor of adressing ?
<daftykins> must be new blood!
<Th3_ghost> yep :)
<daftykins> welcome, welcome
<Th3_ghost> i'm new in IRC world
<Bashing-om> Th3_ghost: Well, me too then .. Welcome to our world . We do what we can - either fix you up, or drive you crazy - which ever happens 1st :)
<daftykins> :D
<Th3_ghost> what version of ubuntu are u using?
<OerHeks> hostnamectl status
<OerHeks> 16.04.2 it says
<Bashing-om> Th3_ghost: Well, I multi-boot . I am presently on 16.04 (x)ubuntu release .
<Th3_ghost> I was wondering when chromium 56 will release for 16.04
<Bashing-om> Th3_ghost: Not at all 'til the MOTU have tested, and passed it on to us .
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-03-01
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> Hiya lotuspsychje :) .. Good help has arrived .
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om cuppa coffee and going to throw in
<Bashing-om> We keep the lid in .. Most has now settled out .
<lotuspsychje> anyone knows where dax hides these days? or did he change nick again
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Ouch ! I had not noted the dax absence . shame on me .
<lotuspsychje> morning OerHeks
<OerHeks> hello lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^
<EriC^^> where is TJ- btw?
<lotuspsychje> didnt see him for long time
<EriC^^> how come?
<lotuspsychje> think someone said he got some work now
<lotuspsychje> not sure of the details
<OerHeks> guys, centos server on vmware, hurry hurry dali dali
<lotuspsychje> hurry what?
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: ah ok
<ducasse> morning all
<Bashing-om> See ducasse :) We kept it for ya .
<ducasse> hey Bashing-om - still hanging on? looks quiet atm...
<lotuspsychje> morning ducasse
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Uh huh .. too quiet to hold my attention . Goig to do that sleep thing .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: you do that, it's usually quiet for a couple more hours
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: work today?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: day off :p
<ducasse> nice :)
<Bashing-om> Night nite all .. see yall on my flip .
<ducasse> nigh!
<ducasse> *night!
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: still got that ip i joined with the other day?
<ducasse> give me a sec...
<lotuspsychje> sure
<ducasse> 80.200.254.174
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<ducasse> np :)
<lotuspsychje> gonna nmap it, curious what service are running
<ducasse> hehe, work ip?
<lotuspsychje> yep they run cyberaom firewall
<OerHeks> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/02/28/canonical-wins-orange-award-for-converged-computing-at-mwc-17/
<lotuspsychje> oh
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/mwc-2017-dell-s-new-edge-gateway-3000-series-are-powered-by-ubuntu-core-16-513377.shtml
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: how
<EriC^^> how's the shop coming together? any prospects for the pc brand?
<lordievader> Good morning
<EriC^^> morning lordievader
<lordievader> Hey EriC^^, how are you?
<EriC^^> o/
<EriC^^> good thanks! you?
<lordievader> Doing good here too, updated my blog finally ;)
<EriC^^> great!
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<ducasse> BluesKaj: are these two-three (noisy) guys regulars, or just drop-ins?
<BluesKaj> who stoned ? he's all over the place
<ducasse> intense, scottjl primarily
<ducasse> 20:41 <intense> sudo rm -rf / && apt-get install ramdoubler
<BluesKaj> scottiji , not sure about him
<nicomachus> hey, I finally got ncmpcpp to work
<nicomachus> ducasse: anyone saying rm -rf should be !ops'd
<nicomachus> also, there's !danger
<nicomachus> just in case
<nicomachus> !danger
<ubot5> DO NOT RUN THAT COMMAND! That particular command is DANGEROUS and shouldn't be uttered here. REST OF YOU: DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! Do not use the command or utter it here thank you!
<ducasse> nicomachus: iirc, the context was that two or three semi-trolls were ranting to each other, it wasn't an answer to someone asking a question. if it was i would have !ops'ed them.
<ducasse> now - sleepytime.
<daftykins> nn :>
<nicomachus> hmmmm.... do I have to source the ncmpcpp file or something to get it to affect the changes?
<nicomachus> oh wait, I'm an idiot
<nicomachus> it really helps if you remember to uncomment the lines you change in a config file, you know?
<daftykins> :D i write personal notes in
<daftykins> # lul future dafty this will never work, stop kidding yourself
<nicomachus> lol
<nicomachus> I just had to change the atrocious stock colors that ncmpcpp comes with.
<nicomachus> much better now.
<daftykins> i don't even have a clue what that is? :)
<nicomachus> ncurses music player.
<daftykins> ah i do spy mpc in there now ;D
<Bashing-om> Me,in my early days I learned the value of dicumentation in any file I change . who, what - when - where and WHY > I have a real short memory ( and I keep a change log file ) .
<nicomachus> https://i.imgur.com/SROSJH2.jpg
<nacc> i always put my nick and keep the old line in comments
<nacc> ideally with a brief why :)
<daftykins> i'm gonna try and play with a Cisco IP phone, Linksys voice gateway for my landline service and the FreePBX distro soon :>
<daftykins> nacc: :D
<nacc> i really wish we extended conffiles to include the ones installed by package runtimes
<nacc> then you'd see what might break due to your local config on every update
<daftykins> it'd be pretty neat, definitely when commands and functions change through deprecation too...
<nacc> yeah, what we have now doesn't feel very desktop-friendly
<nacc> or multi-user, maybe, more accurately
<nacc> really helps root / system-wide config
<nacc> but then again, i wonder how desktop infra specific the config file stuff is too
<nacc> i would hope it's not, and everyone is now using .config or .local or whatever
<daftykins> i think the whole GNU/Linux thing of having software that doesn't always have configs accessible via a GUI tool goes a long way to new user problems
<nicomachus> si
<nacc> daftykins: absolutely -- it's not self-documenting at all
<daftykins> the fact that so much screws up even from using the GUI software updater, that us with experience prefer to use the CLI every time... pretty telling too
<nacc> yes, i have a longstanding bug to fix in php land because the GUI updaters don't trigger something with debconf (sometimes) and upgrades fail
<nacc> then work fine from terminal with apt
<daftykins> :S
<nacc> yeah, super annoying -- and debconf spits out random perl messages :)
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> my basic installer bug got ignored for 4+ years, i got to see how good FOSS was that time
<nacc> daftykins: was that the one i looked at a while back?
<daftykins> could be yeah, Guernsey and Jersey getting US keyboard layout by default
<daftykins> think it just ended up getting fixed in upstream instead
<nacc> daftykins: yeah it's a tough balance
<nacc> and i will admit the whole desktop side is scary to me
<nacc> as the chance of regression is so much higher
<nacc> because X is so fragile :)
<nacc> X + ever DE out there
<nicomachus> whoa, who does PMs through DCC instead of /query?
<nicomachus> or does it always give that status update and I just never noticed?
<nicomachus> 16:44 DCC CHAT from  [172.20.10.2 port 57689]
<daftykins> i've only ever seen helpees demanding answers / trolling you try DCC chats
<nicomachus> he was just saying thanks for the link I sent him
<nicomachus> which I sent in the channel... but oh well
<nacc> Bashing-om: makes sense, they are a hardware company after all :)
<nacc> (re: amdgpu only supporting newest cards well so far)
<OerHeks> still, it should play hd video better than my old 5450
<OerHeks> i even use wobbly windows :-D
<daftykins> XD
<OerHeks> but if this AMD 6870 is in a laptop ..
<daftykins> the mobile chips are usually worse
<nacc> OerHeks: :)
<Bashing-om> nacc: I can see AMD's position . Putting their efforts in newer cards in this time of translation to open source support .
<daftykins> yeah, you couldn't go back to an old architecture (series of cards + chips) this late in the day
<nacc> Bashing-om: yeah, it's just an unfortunate transition
<nacc> hopefully by 18.04 it's a lot better
<Bashing-om> We can hope for the trickle down effect in the case of older ATI cards . but do not hold the breath as there be compatibility issues . The carrot is still dangling for older ATI cards .
<nacc> yep
<Bashing-om> nacc: The list I tend to believe : http://theleftcoastgeek.net/index.php/categories/12-possible-amdgpu-pro-supported-gpus-by-the-end .
<Bashing-om> nacc: QIII ^^ has been working close with AMD and our developers in testing and what not .
<nacc> Bashing-om: nice
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-03-02
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<daftykins> howdy!
<OerHeks> hola :-D
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: .. Hiya ! // Morn'n tea ?
<lotuspsychje> wow hi guys, crowdy today lol
<daftykins> yeah i'm on broken time again! XD
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/gallery/q4v0v
<daftykins> :)
<lotuspsychje> lets c :p
<daftykins> think it's your workplace, lotus!
<lotuspsychje> lol that gif
<lotuspsychje> i hope they wont serve that for a meal
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: yep, green bancha tea with honey
<lotuspsychje> got this nasty cough i cant get rid off..time to wash that away
<daftykins> ooh-err
<daftykins> coughs can be really nasty
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: And a touch of whiskey will do wonders .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: i dont like whiskey too much, does that work with rhum aswell?
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: its crowded in main, why dont you just change your nick to daftykin and join us lol, show them who's boss mate
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Can not say about rum . But tea, honey and wiskey I know works well for coughs and colds . Does a real number on a sore throat :)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: ill remember that, tried everything in the book, onions, soup,syrup..the works
<OerHeks> chickensoup & dutch liqourice
<lotuspsychje> http://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/10-popular-apps-to-use-in-2017-if-you-havent
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Make the concoction - warm - warmer the better . Tou will be amazed ( I know I was 1st time my grampa done me one ) .
<lotuspsychje> looks like we allready popular :p
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: whats a concoction?
<lotuspsychje> !info catfish
<ubot5> catfish (source: catfish): File searching tool which is configurable via the command line. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.4.2-0ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 97 kB, installed size 716 kB
<lotuspsychje> and clementine rocknrolls also
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: It's all that stuff ya throw in for a black magic spell :P Mix it all together and ya get a concoction of ingredients .
<lotuspsychje> oh a mix right
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: XD they'll never know with a nick like that!
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: their too d7mb to ever notice lol
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/skype-5-0-for-linux-enters-beta-with-video-call-support-and-better-collaboration-513468.shtml
<daftykins> wowzer
<daftykins> i was under the impression they were trying to move it all to browser based
<lotuspsychje> shared screens lol, that sounds like a real bad idea
<lotuspsychje> !info clementine
<ubot5> clementine (source: clementine): modern music player and library organizer. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.3+git1354-gdaddbde+dfsg-1build1 (xenial), package size 4583 kB, installed size 19998 kB
<lotuspsychje> !info clementine zesty
<ubot5> clementine (source: clementine): modern music player and library organizer. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.3.1+git276-g3485bbe43+dfsg-1 (zesty), package size 4301 kB, installed size 16179 kB
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> why doesnt this surprise me: https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/02/severe-vulnerability-in-wordpress-plugin-could-affect-1-million-sites/
<OerHeks> Don't buy cookies.
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> happens all the time indeedy
<daftykins> still haven't murdered mine since i cba to maintain it anymore, actually
<Bashing-om> What is it with lotuspsychje ? He shows up and again main dries up ....... hummmmm
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> all issues solved! we can all go home now
<Bashing-om> Go home ? Now where is the fun in that ?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i reckon he joins and they all go "hmm, a coffee and a lotus biscuit - excellent idea!" so then things quieten down ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Most excellent supposition, sir .
<daftykins> thank ye :D
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: dax .. who is this stranger ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: lol
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Would we be toooo nosey to inquire of the wonders you have achieved in your sabatical ?
<Bashing-om> dax has achieved **
<daftykins> hrmm?
<Bashing-om> daftykins: lotus is on the case !
<daftykins> case of beers?!
<Bashing-om> Naw .. best I thought lotuspsychje had sworn off /o\ .
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> !distrowatch
<ubot5> "[Distrowatch stats] correlate neither to usage nor to quality and should not be used to measure the market share of distributions. They simply show the number of times a distribution page on DistroWatch.com was accessed each day, nothing more." ~ https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity
<lotuspsychje> !livepatch
<ubot5> Canonical Livepatch is a service offered by Canonical for 64 bit 16.04 installs that modifies the currently running kernel for updates without the need to restart. More information can be found at http://ubottu.com/y/livepatch and https://www.ubuntu.com/server/livepatch
<lotuspsychje> new factoids in the house :p
<lotuspsychje> !16.04.2
<ubot5> 16.04.2 is rescheduled to February 16th due to several last minute issues with building and testing the ISOs. You can install the 16.04(.1) ISOs and run the updates if you are in a hurry.
<lotuspsychje> !budgie
<ubot5> Ubuntu Budgie is a community !flavour of Ubuntu featuring the Budgie desktop. Its first official release will be 17.04. As with all development versions, for questions involving Ubuntu Budgie 17.04 support, visit #ubuntu+1. Ubuntu Budgie 16.04 and 16.10 are not supported by the Ubuntu project. https://ubuntubudgie.org/
<lotuspsychje> if you guys need it for main
<daftykins> my my, never heard of budgie
<daftykins> it looks like gnome 3 and unity had a baby...
<daftykins> https://ubuntubudgie.org/portfolio/screenshots
<lotuspsychje> lookin neat, can shake hands with mate for speed i think
<lotuspsychje> meanwhile im still waiting for something to happen to the ubuntu phone world
<lotuspsychje> if one day they find a way to install touch on any device, my business will rocknroll :p
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> never gonna happen, even android ROMs are nigh-on impossible between android phones out-of-the-box
<daftykins> all need some device specific TLC
<lotuspsychje> they did a nice job with fairphone2 already
<lotuspsychje> lets hope they will make alot of babies :p
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/02/08/community-initiative-ubports-launches-ubuntu-fairphone-2/
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: whats your opinion on the entroware machines? https://www.entroware.com/store/index.php?route=common/home
<lotuspsychje> sended a mail to them
<Bashing-om> !full-upgrade
<ducasse> morning all
<Bashing-om> ducasse: :) Shift Change !
<ducasse> Bashing-om: :) looks like main is quiet right now? get ready for bed, it will probably stay quiet for a while yet...
<Bashing-om> ducasse: was low ,, then got a spike now slow again .. time for me to give it up and retire // Leave it to the fresh minds :)
<Bashing-om> ANd on that idea .. I do it .. g nite . Yall take care .
<lordievader> Good morning.
<ducasse> \o
<ducasse> lordievader: just got a call, crap connection, where a guy with terrible english told me he was calling from "the technical department of windows" :)
<lordievader> Hmm, lucky you. I have never gotten a phone scam :(
<lordievader> :P
<lordievader> Did you troll him back?
<ducasse> these guys are _so much fun!_ :)
<lordievader> I've heard/read strories of people using Linux and following their instructions without telling them they are using Linux.
<lordievader> "Press the Start button", "I don't have that?"
<ducasse> yes, i had him going along for four or five minutes before i told him i wasn't using windows, but just wasting his time - he got really angry.
<lordievader> Hahaha, nice
<ducasse> i know they're probably doing it out of desperation, but that doesn't make it ok.
<lordievader> No, there are nicer ways of making money.
<ducasse> i wonder how they get the numbers, last time this happened i got like four or five of these calls in a week.
<OerHeks> yay, HTTPS on all ubuntu sites http://design.canonical.com/2017/03/securing-our-sites-with-https/
<OerHeks> .. except http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
<ducasse> good morning, EriC^^
<EriC^^> good morning ducasse
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<ducasse> good, thanks. you?
<EriC^^> great
<ducasse> good :)
<EriC^^> :)
<ducasse> found a website that sells recycled computers from norwegian companies, with new batteries and disks. their laptop prices are ridiculously low, so i'm browsing for something nice :)
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> maybe tell lotus about them incase it helps with his shop
<ducasse> i will, but he hasn't been here today. they ask like ~150 british pounds for an 3rd gen i7 thinkpad with 8gb ram + ssd
<EriC^^> that's alright
<EriC^^> i got a good deal on this lappy
<ducasse> with new battery, disk plus warranty, it's pretty decent.
<EriC^^> hp i7 6500u, 8gb ddr4 ram, 1tb hdd, 1920x1080 screen, amd radeon card ... $600
<EriC^^> new not refurbished
<ducasse> that's ok, but i don't need anything near that nice. i just want a decent cpu, a bit of ram and an ssd. plus an ok screen, if possible on my budget.
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> i got another lappy with a good deal
<EriC^^> but it's kind of shit, i didnt like the keyboard build quality
<EriC^^> nevermind
<ducasse> laptop keyboards are often crap, but i hear the thinkpads have decent keyboards?
<EriC^^> never tried it, i liked the older pavilion keyboard i had
<EriC^^> this one, i feel like smashing sometimes
<EriC^^> the keys barely move at all, can't stand it
<ducasse> :)
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-03-03
<Bashing-om> !repository
<ubot5> The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. More information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecommendedSources for the recommended way to set up your repositories.
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> My my lotuspsychje is here - how my time flies when having fun .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: hello mate
<Bashing-om> Morn'n lotus .. enjoy your tea .. still a bit slow in main :)
<lotuspsychje> tnx for the headsup
<Bashing-om> well .. such a Nvidia commomality sure plummed out !
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: think his chip is new indeed, the older drivers dont work straight like you thought
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I am a bit confused . Bvidia legacy driver page indicates the 340 driver  for the ion series ???
<lotuspsychje> weird
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I find it hard to accept that a system that supports Win7 has such an old generation video card .
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<ducasse> good morning!
<Bashing-om> There ducasse goes again - starts another round ( soon as the mind is right ) .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: yup, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed! how has your day been?
<Bashing-om> Oh .. well .. Took the car in for a service check .. 500 USD later -  Still to do is clean up from the storm's damages . But ,,, support goes well !
<Bashing-om> Opps .. trolls are activating :(
<ducasse> ouch, car repairs are no fun :( the trolls are getting more and more silly and boring, thay used to at least be funny some times :)
<ducasse> *they
<Bashing-om> Cars: if ya use them ya got to fix them . Trolls; some peoples' children I just do not understand .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: yup, i don't drive (epilepsy) so luckily i don't have that (huge) expense. where i live i don't really need a car either.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: In many ways I can envy a simpler life style :D
<Bashing-om> R&R time for me . G nite - take care 'til we meet again ,
<EriC^^> morning ducasse
<BluesKaj> Hi all
<OerHeks> seems like a wave, people have problems booting 4.4.0-64
<daftykins> !info linux-image-generic vivid
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 3.19.0.82.80 (vivid), package size 2 kB, installed size 28 kB
<daftykins> !find va
<ubot5> Found: advancecomp, avahi-autoipd, avahi-daemon, avahi-dbg, avahi-utils, ca-certificates-java, ecj-gcj, efivar, fonts-deva, fonts-deva-extra (and 2185 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=va&searchon=names&suite=xenial&section=all
<daftykins> !find libva
<ubot5> Found: libva-dev, libva-drm1, libva-egl1, libva-glx1, libva-tpi1, libva-wayland1, libva-x11-1, libva1, libval-bin, libval-dbg (and 29 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libva&searchon=names&suite=xenial&section=all
<daftykins> !info libva-glx1
<ubot5> libva-glx1 (source: libva): Video Acceleration (VA) API for Linux -- GLX runtime. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.7.0-1 (xenial), package size 11 kB, installed size 46 kB
<daftykins> !info libva1
<ubot5> libva1 (source: libva): Video Acceleration (VA) API for Linux -- runtime. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.7.0-1 (xenial), package size 47 kB, installed size 175 kB
<Bashing-om> Hey hey, here I is; again . See what the session brings :)
<daftykins> welcome back!
<daftykins> Bashing-om: i have a Windows based softphone connected to my PBX distro VM on extension 101, a physical phone on 102 and also have it sending me voicemail as attachments to my email address :D :D
<Bashing-om> daftykins: :))) .. And it workie ! .. You moving on up in your world there . 'nother service you can offer your clients .
<daftykins> indeedy!
<daftykins> just waiting my little voice gateway box so i can hook up my PSTN line then i'll be cooking with gas
<Bashing-om> PSTN ? new term to me - lessen I have lost my mind .
<daftykins> public switched telephone network, so just my basic ol' copper pair
<daftykins> POTS as well i guess :>
<OerHeks> Now you can hang a phone outside, only to dail 9-11 :-D
<daftykins> yes! although 999 over here ;)
<daftykins> is it 112 only over there, or do you have a 9xx too?
<OerHeks> ah, then you can remove all other numbers.
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Ho Kay .. here is known as POTS :)
<daftykins> :D
<OerHeks> we have 112
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-03-04
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> coffee & working day here
<daftykins> hey hey!
<daftykins> how's Saturday looking?
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<lotuspsychje> early shift todat
<daftykins> ooh :>
<lotuspsychje> tomorrow off, soo great
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> brb i need some water
<lotuspsychje> kk
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: oh man i've been having so much fun with that PBX server stuff
<daftykins> i got a client for my android phone, a software client for my desktop PC and also plugged a real phone into a special box that converts it to LAN - so all 3 are extensions on my test server :D
<daftykins> then this week i get the box so that my real phone line is put onto it and i receive calls and call out over it :D
<lotuspsychje> cool
<daftykins> that means i could even receive and make local landline calls over the internet from wherever in the world
<lotuspsychje> wow
<daftykins> :D :D
<daftykins> *and* offer clients free calls to home
<lotuspsychje> free, will be gold in their ears
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> seems you can install this PBX on a Raspberry Pi too
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: did you see my link about entroware?
<daftykins> ah no sir
<lotuspsychje> holdon
<lotuspsychje> <lotuspsychje> daftykins: whats your opinion on the entroware machines? https://www.entroware.com/store/index.php?route=common/home
<daftykins> oh my bad i remember you asking now, didn't mean to not reply - must've been distracted!
<daftykins> wow that looks like a good source
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: ive emailed them, and they say they can provide me as a reseller
<daftykins> \o/ they weren't fussed about your location too? given the countries listed on there
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: yep, they said they could deliver to belgium also, but asked me the details of company
<lotuspsychje> not sure yet they will send one by one machines
<daftykins> wow at those prices!
<lotuspsychje> big/low?
<daftykins> nice and low, i configured a kaby lake i5 with 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD for Â£616 excluding tax
<daftykins> that's GBP
<lotuspsychje> great!
<daftykins> oop Â£645 now i put a 1080p screen on
<daftykins> hmm 7 day dead pixel warranty is a bit funky XD
<daftykins> 1 year is the highest warranty on the list too
<lotuspsychje> warranty 1 year is the least of my concerns
<daftykins> :>
<lotuspsychje> the belgian keyboard i need and No OS, No hd
<lotuspsychje> not sure they can do this for me
<daftykins> i see no OS on the 'Aether' i'm configuring
<lotuspsychje> yep thats already good
<daftykins> pretty good prices on SSDs though, depending which they are
<lotuspsychje> but all configs have a HD by default right
<daftykins> in a way you could pick mechanical then put it in an enclosure for clients :D
<lotuspsychje> also good idea, but if some customer have an enclosure already
<lotuspsychje> would rather have the choice you see
<daftykins> definitely
<daftykins> every currency unit counts!
<lotuspsychje> glad you like the prices
<lotuspsychje> dont have many choice for barebone machines
<lotuspsychje> and i also like they fact, they love ubuntu :p
<daftykins> indeed! means their machines may even work with it too ;)
<daftykins> be pretty good if you didn't have to reinstall once they arrive
<lotuspsychje> well i also rather wanna instal fresh myself in dutch right
<daftykins> wonder if they come up with an out of box experience (OOBE) wizard though that lets you pick language o0 never seen preinstalled 'buntu
<lotuspsychje> oh that would be cool indeed
<lotuspsychje> perhaps system76 got it also
<lotuspsychje> so im excited to get a mail back...
<Bashing-om> Beddie bye for me . Good nite :)
<lotuspsychje> nite Bashing-om
<daftykins> yep time for me to check out too
<daftykins> cya lotus have a good weekend \o
<lotuspsychje> byebye
<aelsilmare> hi what's everyone's fav WM?
<aelsilmare> I like Fluxbox and Afterstep but eager to hear all your opinions
<daftykins> explorer
<aelsilmare> lol Windows dude? I can't say I like it
<daftykins> :)
<aelsilmare> windows is ok if you like viruses
<daftykins> very 90s comment, that
<aelsilmare> 90s? d00d my windows machine just got a virus like a month ago!
<daftykins> malware maybe, but not a true virus no
<daftykins> the only sane approach is the person that accepts all OSs have problems - and an IT professional, which is the area i work in, deals with them all
<aelsilmare> of course I know viruses dont really exist today but yeah I got a serious piece of malware and I had to download malwarebytes on my linux machine and install it from a USB key
<daftykins> i think we both know how that could've come about
<daftykins> anyway yeah my paid work is on Windows mostly - but i run services from Linux servers :)
<daftykins> the one i really extend my middle finger to are the Macs though
<aelsilmare> well the malware hit my hosts file...no internet access
<daftykins> single file edit.
<aelsilmare> but yeah malwarebytes kicks ass
<daftykins> mmm usually use it on folks machines
<aelsilmare> yea its great software...it's just windows yknow it's so insecure by default
<aelsilmare> ubuntu never had anyh kind of malware for me
<daftykins> most stuff attacks by accounts and browsers, so i'd say your comments are a bit too anecdotal and not platform agnostic
<aelsilmare> platform agnostic??
<lotuspsychje> alot of security holes on linux also
<lotuspsychje> !usn
<ubot5> Please see http://www.ubuntu.com/usn for information about recent Ubuntu security updates.
<daftykins> ^ lotus speaks the truth
<aelsilmare> buntu never had anthat fixes them right?
<aelsilmare> i just apt-get upgrade
<daftykins> listen, if you want to be taken seriously in life you have to drop the fanboy angle and see that everything gets problems
<daftykins> ok really off \o
<aelsilmare> of course...i know linux isnt the answer to everything
<lotuspsychje> the owner's mind does everything to a machine
<lotuspsychje> on whatever Os
<lotuspsychje> always need to be carefull
<aelsilmare> very int insight lotus
<lotuspsychje> !info lynis | aelsilmare
<ubot5> aelsilmare: lynis (source: lynis): security auditing tool for Unix based systems. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.1.1-1 (xenial), package size 126 kB, installed size 935 kB
<lotuspsychje> check this nice tool
<lotuspsychje> bbl working, have a nice one guys
<ducasse> morning all
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> BluesKaj: good morning!
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse, what's up today ?
<ducasse> not much, really. nothing on the schedule today, so i'm doing Important Stuff like fiddling with desktop and terminal colors :)
<BluesKaj> this is interesting https://www.linux.com/learn/intro-to-linux/2017/3/try-raspberry-pixel-platform-your-desktop
<BluesKaj> there's pixelos for the desktop/laptop too and apparently it's very fast on intel cpus, but it's still 32 bit
<BluesKaj> it's still in the live media stage, there's no insraller
<ducasse> cool, good that there's still activity on 'light' desktops.
<BluesKaj> yeah, for sure
<ducasse> given how many ask for them in #ubuntu, there is clearly a market.
<BluesKaj> lots of users trying to resurrect older machines that are still working, but with lower specs
<ducasse> yep, and i understand why. they can still be used for a lot of stuff, even if you might not be able to decode (u)hd video etc.
<BluesKaj> yeah , the seniors center here are using a couple old HPs with celeron cpus on lubuntu on them, mostly for surfing the net and email etc
<BluesKaj> ok , bbl
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<ducasse> hi lotus!
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> no work today?
<lotuspsychje> yeah im done early
<ducasse> ah, goodie. plans for the evening?
<lotuspsychje> movie marathon with gf :p
<ducasse> 'movie', suuuure.
<ducasse> ;)fontforge-extras
<ducasse> soeey about paste there :)
<ducasse> *sorry
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> argh, this keyboard is so crap :(
<lotuspsychje> wich one is it
<ducasse> a hp laptop, i'm not at my desk atm
<ducasse> _old_ hp laptop :)
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: we use our mede8er mediaplayer to watch some :p
<ducasse> right, you linked that once. i still use the rpi2, works for me. not ideal, but Good Enough.
<lotuspsychje> plays every codec in the book :p
<ducasse> h.265 as well?
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> hey baizon
<baizon> hi hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> bbl movie :p
<ducasse> evening/morning Bashing-om
<OerHeks> happy weekend \0/
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Thankee .. Been "settled" on main ?
<ducasse> Bashing-om: been quiet today, from what i've seen
<daftykins> \o
<ducasse> OerHeks: how is drabber? :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Here lately the week-ends have been slow . 'buntu is stable and user friendly ! Are we - volunteers - phasing out too ?
<daftykins> drabber \o/
<ducasse> evening, daftykins
<daftykins> finishing up some CD ripping here
<ducasse> what does "I already got swap size greater than RAM twice and my swap not if btfu" mean?
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Has been PBX'n .. a whole new world .
<daftykins> i think the last 3 'words' ruin it, but is it someone saying they're filling swap o0
<daftykins> yep! got myself an android app (Voiperbeta), desktop app (X-Lite) and also an old analog phone connecting to a VM of 'FreePBX' :D
<daftykins> just awaiting my voice gateway to show up so i can configure my real landline to join the party
<Bashing-om> ducasse: got me with the " btfu" too .
<daftykins> but the whole voicemail sending me emails is amazing
<ducasse> everything from 'and' on was on a separate line, if that helps :)
<daftykins> (.wav attachments)
<daftykins> haha oh it's one of THOSE
<ducasse> Bashing-om: 'back the f up', the internet says
<daftykins> sounds like we need to see a 'free -m'
<daftykins> be quite funny if the swap was there but off...
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Then he has a "failure to communicate" properly :)
<ducasse> freakyy: he's trying to hibernate
<ducasse> daftykins: ^^
<daftykins> aaaah so not enough space left to enter
<ducasse> bad tab there
<daftykins> yep still could do with a 'free -m' :)
<ducasse> he's gone now anyway. that's another thing, people don't understand answers can take a few minutes :)
<daftykins> not quick enough ducasse! FASTER!
<daftykins> :>
<ducasse> i'll take as much time as i damn well please, thank you. ;)
<OerHeks> wait a minute ...
<Bashing-om> We who have done so much, for so long - with so little - are now qualified to to anything with nothing .
<OerHeks> proceed
<ducasse> OerHeks: :)
<ducasse> anyone seen this? https://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm
<ducasse> on new github t&c
<daftykins> ugh i'm sorting tagging in huge 60+ track compilation albums to try and undo the mess a client had created by iTunes usage
<daftykins> that program needs to be destroyed...
<ducasse> daftykins: can't beets or something do this?
<daftykins> it's one of those situations where the artist of each individual track has been set as the artist, but as they are compilations they need to be moved into the title so that the artist can be 'Various Artists'
<daftykins> big mess
<ducasse> daftykins: not to be cruel, but that doesn't sound like the ideal saturday night :-/
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Nope ! Was not aware there was a Github licenseing controversy . Ouch . change is in the forecast .
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> just want to get it finished so i can take them up when i go for a shower in a moment (since mine is still broken)
<ducasse> hehe - mark, copy, cut, paste, edit, repeat ;)
<daftykins> yep ;_;
<daftykins> 493 files omg
<daftykins> parents, talk to your children about tagging... oh wait they all use streaming services... :)
<ducasse> 'ls -1R FLAC/ | wc -l' = 12328
<daftykins> oh they're not even FLAC, that's what's cringe too
<daftykins> this is trying to organise the guy's wifes nasty iTunes organised collection in order to tear it away from Apple fail :)
<daftykins> not sure she has the original CDs to just do it over which'd be quicker XD
<ducasse> i'm betting the music is crap, too
<ducasse> "various artists" sort of suggest that
<daftykins> just did a couple of Christmas compilations... D:
<ducasse> oh god.
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9lrhmg0unr3ekd/tagging.PNG?dl=0
<daftykins> the ones without 'Various Artists' are still yet to be done
<ducasse> "80s groove masters"
<ducasse> rotfl
<ducasse> daftykins: btw - good site for transferring files - https://transfer.sh/
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> aww ducasse you want me to zip half of them and let you help? ;)
<ducasse> suuure :)
<ducasse> done any soldering lately?
<Bashing-om> A friend in deed ^ :P
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> sadly no :( no uses for soldering of late, the PBX plans have taken over
<daftykins> it's ok guys, only 232 files left
<daftykins> eww someone just threw up outside
<ducasse> yuck
<Bashing-om> An early start ^^ on his Saturday night ? ( I do not miss them days !)
<daftykins> indeed :S
<daftykins> aaaaah done at last
 * alkisg wonders if it would be possible to ask the sysadmins to implement `nc paste.ubuntu.com 9999` instead of instructing people to run `nc termbin.com 9999`....
<daftykins> alkisg: why?
<alkisg> Well, to be more #ubuntu specific :)
<daftykins> and when you say implement... do you mean 'use' when giving advice, or...? because the package 'pastebinit' exists
<daftykins> it doesn't matter what is used to get the job done
<alkisg> Well, suppose that someone has a live cd or a broken apt
<alkisg> pastebinit isn't preinstalled
<daftykins> yeah, in which case we'll use whatever service comes to mind
<alkisg> So I `nc` is handy in many cases
<daftykins> yep preaching to the choir there
<ducasse> alkisg: it is installed on 16.04?
<alkisg> And, I just thought it would be better to have support for it in paste.ubuntu.com too, it shouldn't be hard...
<daftykins> "support" ?
<alkisg> ducasse: I don't have it in my ubuntu-mate 16.04
<alkisg> I don't know about the unity cd
<daftykins> so you came in to tell people that help others to use a given service over another because you think the name matches up nicer?
<daftykins> there's not anything else to it? :)
<alkisg> daftykins: support => in the web server at paste.ubuntu.com, there should be something implemented to listed on the 9999 port
<alkisg> For nc posts, not http POSTs
<daftykins> sorry can't follow what you just said
<alkisg> I wondered if it would be a good idea to implement a service in paste.ubuntu.com, that is similar to termbin.com
<daftykins> aaaah so what you really mean is that you don't *know* if paste.ubuntu.com supports netcat piping?
<alkisg> That is, receive pastes though netcat instead of HTTP POSTs
<alkisg> I believe it doesn't
<alkisg> And it wouldn't be hard to implement
<daftykins> right, now we arrive at your real meaning :)
<alkisg> And I'm asking if others find it a good idea
<alkisg> If yes, then we could see who maintains this etc
<daftykins> don't see any benefit or disadvantage, you just have to track down who runs it
<alkisg> If you don't see any benefits, there's no reason to track down who runs it...
<alkisg> That's why I came to ask, if it's not a good idea no reason to try and implement it
<daftykins> oh no i'm not going to do it :)
<daftykins> this 'ticket' is your baby :D
<alkisg> I'm not requesting that you do it
<daftykins> yeah i know
<alkisg> I was just asking if people thought it would be a good idea
<daftykins> wouldn't hurt, i used to forget termbin from time to time
<daftykins> it also went down once for a few weeks
<Bashing-om> Away for a spell - Be back somewhat later ;)
<Bashing-om> I am back to where I can pay attention :)
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> Louis is also back - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGNOGHXhpbQ
<daftykins> yay repair!
<Bashing-om> daftykins: No audio on this work station :) - ( and no intention of change )
<daftykins> ooh, how come?
<Bashing-om> I can not hear anyway .. and most things I hear I do not want to hear anyway :) just a distraction .
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-03-05
<daftykins> oh right, i had no idea!
<Bashing-om> Oh not too bad .. just hardening of the ear drums - abuse in my younger days is the medical p[onion . The ringing sometimes gets on my nerves but it is all good .
<Bashing-om> opinion*
<daftykins> ah har
<Bashing-om> !host
<Bashing-om> !hosts
<Bashing-om> !hostname
<ubot5> Use hostname <somehostname> to set the hostname, or to do it permanently: edit /etc/hosts to include BOTH the old and new hostname and then change /etc/hostname to the new one. WARNING! Make sure that your current hostname and /etc/hosts match, otherwise sudo may not work properly.
<daftykins> hmm i never had to do that
<daftykins> bit shocking if there's no GUI way to do it
<Bashing-om> daftykins: release upgrade and I change it to reflect what I am booting into .
<daftykins> oh i just mean the old and new names at the same time, i've renamed host often :D
<Bashing-om> Me, I take the directions - never deviated to see what breaks :)
<daftykins> think i just found out the hard way the first time, i edited /etc/hostname and rebooted - broken system
<daftykins> fixable only from a live session :>
<Bashing-om> And that is why I appreciate linux so . With a liveDVD it is fixable .
<daftykins> weeeell you wouldn't lose a Windows box renaming it... :D
<OerHeks> for 16.04 it would be hostnamectl http://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2016/06/change-hostname-ubuntu-16-04-without-restart/
<daftykins> oh my Tux the first line is a command to change it, then you have to edit by hand anyway... what!?
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: True, hostnamectl , I did the old way on this install .. and it still works .
<daftykins> it is still just 'nautilus' for the file manager in 16.04, yeah?
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Looks like it : http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=nautilus&searchon=names&suite=xenial-updates&section=all .
<daftykins> hrmm thanks
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Welcome to the Dead Zone :)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: hey mate, hahaha i joined now everything will rise from the dead :p
<Bashing-om> Yeah for the power of positive think'n !
<lotuspsychje> gonna switch to zesty in april, to bug it out :p
<baizon> im gonna switch when i get my new amd cpu :)
<lotuspsychje> baizon: what did you order mate?
<baizon> lotuspsychje: AMD Ryzen 7 1700
<lotuspsychje> wow nice
<baizon> also ordered a Samsung 850 EVO yesterday :D
<lotuspsychje> nice nice!
<lotuspsychje> baizon: will fot in your current mobo?
<lotuspsychje> fit
<baizon> lotuspsychje: no, also got a new mobo
<lotuspsychje> baizon: wich brand?
<Bashing-om> baizon: Was looking at the Ryzen yesterday - I can only drool right now .
<baizon> lotuspsychje: https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/PRIME-B350M-A/
<lotuspsychje> ooh nice
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: U have had zesty in the test bed for a spell now .. I have seen no issues with either unity or gnome3 - AMD board on AM2 sockets (old !).
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: didnt test yet no, ill install at official and bug out heavy
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Just in the event you get ansie .. or impatient for 17.04 - seems solid and stable to me as is now .
<lotuspsychje> tnx for the headsup
<lotuspsychje> baizon: lol that mobo is a beast
<baizon> ofc
<baizon> also im building a cube :D
<lotuspsychje> baizon: for TV purpose?
<baizon> nope
<baizon> want a small pc :)
<baizon> a small "cube"
<lotuspsychje> cool
<baizon> but yeah i need 17.04 with 4.10 kernel
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: channel awake enough now :p
<Bashing-om> See, positive think'n :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<Bashing-om> Now if we just had all the solutions :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Bashing-om> The easy ones I can handle :)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: sometimes its good to investigate a hard one, you even dont know, so others can read and help
<Bashing-om> ^^ That is the only way I progress . stretch my mind sometimes !
<ducasse> morning all
<lotuspsychje> morning ducasse :p
<ducasse> hi lotus, work today?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: no, day off and going to familly for pie :p
<ducasse> ooh, pie! bring some back :)
<lotuspsychje> i will :p
<ducasse> other plans? i'm just having a quiet day in, i think.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: this is one we have a lot in belgium: https://koken.vtm.be/sites/koken.vtm.be/files/recipe/image/flan_bresilienne_0.jpg
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: no, it will take all day, travel by train
<ducasse> caaake! :)
<Bashing-om> chocolate cake .. I want mine and want to eat it too :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> with a nice cuppa coffee
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Uh HuH .. coffee - hot - black and nasty !
<ducasse> haven't had breakfast yet, too early for cake :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: It is Sunday .. take a sugar rush and enjoy .
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> :)
<lotuspsychje> sugar overload
<lotuspsychje> have a nice one guys!!
<lotuspsychje> laterz ; )
<ducasse> have fun lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<EriC^^> good morning ducasse Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Great to read ya !
<EriC^^> you as well!
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Recovering from storm damage . but no harm to the computers besides having to reset bios .. so all is well !
<ducasse> hi EriC^^ :)
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: great to hear
<EriC^^> hi ducasse :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: what did the storm destroy?
<Bashing-om> 2 trees down , out building's roofs blown off and LOTS of debris .
<ducasse> wow. i've never experienced weather like that here.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: We got out light .. 8 tonadoes in the state .. several communitiies no longer exist .
<ducasse> crazy stuff. that must be a really traumatic experience, losing your home and entire community like that.
<Bashing-om> Yes indeed . BAD stuff . A small community to the west of us got blowed away - several lost lives - a few years back ,,, just as they got the town rebuilt .. got blowed away again .. happens !
<ducasse> sleep well Bashing-om :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Oh I will sleep, but leaving a problem hanging does not sleep well for me . But this now may take a lot of time to correct .
<ducasse> i'm sure we'll get it sorted :)
<Bashing-om> And I am done for this session and outa here - take care of the situations till I return .
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> oof full of Sunday roast dinner ;)
<Bashing-om> Back .... see if I can pick up again and carry on .
<daftykins> :D wb!
<Bashing-om> Good to be here daftykins . Are you having fun ?
<daftykins> yes thanks! nice sunday lunch of roast beef today with my folks and now relaxing at home :)
<EriC^^> heya daftykins Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: He's the man .. Glad again to read ya .
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: how's it going? how
<EriC^^> 's your day been?
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Just getting started .. Brain farts are plauging me right now .
<EriC^^> daftykins: we should get together some day and take your cat and my fish for a play date
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: you have any pets?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hiya \o
<daftykins> EriC^^: i am not sure she would be so gentle!
<EriC^^> :D
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: We be pet poor .. cats, dogs, parakeets, children and grandchildren .
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: :D
<EriC^^> these fish are pretty funny
<EriC^^> the red one was very timid and nervous, and very very stupid, like food would be next to him and he wouldn't see it
<EriC^^> the other black/red one is very smart, he'll smell food behind him from across and run and eat it
<EriC^^> now when i go to feed them, the red one misses eating the food, the black one eats it, then it keeps head butting it and chasing it around
<EriC^^> the black one stays at the surface most of the time with its mouth open wanting to eat more food, it never ever stops and will eat anything, the red one seems to like egg yolks the most
<EriC^^> it chases the black one around head butting it most of the time if i approach them :D
<Bashing-om> male and female fishes ?
<EriC^^> i think the red one is male for sure
<EriC^^> i was thinking maybe it's the breeding season that's why he's chasing the black around
<EriC^^> but he only seems to do it once i feed them, then he stops
<EriC^^> sometimes the black will screw with him and head butt him too, but pretty rarely
<EriC^^> they're pretty tiny fish, like 4inches maybe
<Bashing-om> We too at one time had aquariums . The fish are pretty , but keeping up the aquariums is a pain .
<EriC^^> yeah, i want to get a 100L aquarium and a filter so i change the water like once a week or so
<EriC^^> the good thing about these fish is that if you dont feed them they can last for 3 weeks without food
<EriC^^> and they eat almost anything, cucumbers carrots peas egg yolks strawberries meat etc
<EriC^^> the water changes are a pain though
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: In home garbage disposal :)
<EriC^^> i'm changing in the morning and now i should change after feeding them yolk cause it ruined the water a little but i'm a little lazy
<EriC^^> a dog would be awesome
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Changing the water out is a hassel , We have lost fish not doing it properly . Allowing the fresh water to get to room temperature before dumpting the fish back in :(
<EriC^^> oh
<EriC^^> yeah it sucks how sensitive they are
<EriC^^> it's kind of hilarious, i heard one fish died from loud noises
<EriC^^> when i put them on the balcony, i put them one day there to get sun, the next day i put them there, and they were like transformed
<EriC^^> they grouped together very closely in the far extremities, and if i came to their side, they're go nuts and swim to the other sides, like they were super paranoid
<EriC^^> when i brought them back in the house they were fine again
<EriC^^> our new neighbors are a little loud i guess
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> curious creatures
<EriC^^> yeah, i was reading online about this guy, who had his goldfish for like 4 years, and his gf chopped a chicken next to it, next day it was dead
<Bashing-om> it's them negative vibes . fish are perceptive, huh ?
<EriC^^> and he was like triggered at his gf, *you killed my fish! O-O*
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> no cooking in the proximity of my fish!
<EriC^^> i want them kind of tough, sometimes when i'm pouring water, it gets kind of roller coaster for them, i'm like fuck it be tough you son of a bitches
<EriC^^> lol then when they roll around a little i feel bad and i'm like ok whatever and pour it on the sides
<EriC^^> i want the water to get a good oxygen mix too :D plus how's it not fun for them, wth
<EriC^^> so i take it easy with them in the end xD
<Bashing-om> I must confess I like native fish to eat . What I dislike is scalling them while alive .
<daftykins> scaling whilst alive? D:
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I have taken to cutting the heads off prior .. but a bit difficult to make sure all the scales are removed at the point of the cuts .
<daftykins> ah har
<EriC^^> if you poke them in the eye their brain goes kaboom and they instantly die
<EriC^^> so i've read
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Now that is a good thought ! // Ice pick to the eye ?
<EriC^^> also some vodka will kill them easily
<EriC^^> yup
<EriC^^> i was almost about to euthanise mine
<EriC^^> i was pretty worried about them having salmonella or something, my grandma has a weak immune system cause she's older
<Bashing-om> picked up the wrong bottle ?
<EriC^^> nah i read about it online, wikihow :D
<daftykins> hrmm not sure that sick fish in a bowl could risk anyone outside of the water? unless your grandma drank from it...
<EriC^^> well she feeds them sometimes
<EriC^^> last week i woke up and there was 2 huge pieces of toast
<EriC^^> i was like a smaller version of the guy and his gf
<EriC^^> what did you dooooo
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> O_O
<EriC^^> i had them fast for 3 days cause they had swollen stomachs and swam funny, they're good now
<daftykins> that would've been a long meal!
<EriC^^> lol they had been eating all day :D
<EriC^^> it was like a free buffet for them
<daftykins> "all you can eat 'til you can swim no more!"
<OerHeks> sounds fishy ..
<EriC^^> anyways maybe she'll get used to the idea of pets and i can get a cat or dog in the future >;D
<EriC^^> lol
<OerHeks> wait .. nicomachus got a basement full of kittens
<Bashing-om> -- texla -- can I go home now ?
<OerHeks> heh, installed ubuntu, then linux-something, then reinstalled grub, now it is ubuntu's problem
<OerHeks> chainloading problems
<daftykins> :D
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Yeah .. He has been at this for days .. and keeps NOT following directions . I just do not have that magic pill to make it all better . I will not - I will not loose patience .. I will not loose patience , ( I too was once new and lost ) .
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-02-26
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: WB .. been a good steady session .. kinda nutzy .
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: crowdy night?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Might take more than strong coffee to enable you to wade into this :P
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> calmness has returned Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> no idea what ghostnik trying to do...
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Upgrade, and he pushed the power button ! now can not boot .
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Good morning lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> great here tnx and you
<lordievader> Doing allright here
<lotuspsychje> freezing outside
<lordievader> Jup
<lordievader> -5
<lordievader> How much is it there?
<lotuspsychje> -7
<lotuspsychje> the whole week
<lordievader> Brrr
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> bbl prepare
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you?
<ducasse> good, thanks, lordievader - and you?
<lordievader> I'm doing allright, thanks.
<ducasse> quiet monday morning so far
<lotuspsychje> im out guys
<lotuspsychje> cu a bit laterz
<lordievader> See you lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<jink> Morning, Kaj.
<BluesKaj> 'Morning jink
<JimBuntu> g'morn y'all.
<akik> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+source/apport/+bug/1739531
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1739531 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "apport-collect SHOULD NOT collect gnome-shell command history and favorites" [High,Confirmed]
<akik> org.gnome.shell command-history in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/349970997/GsettingsChanges.txt
<kostkon> akik, heh
<akik> maybe that doesn't get enough visibility in the process. it's taken two months now
<lotuspsychje> good evening guys
<lotuspsychje> anyone noticed more black screen in #ubuntu lately?
<daftykins> you mean nobody speaking? :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lexcurious> sup?
<lotuspsychje> lexcurious: ansible is in the ubuntu repos, so yes users use it
<daftykins> or at least a maintainer does xD
<lotuspsychje> <lexcurious> general questions for community : 1) did you faced any dll hell in ubuntu in recent 2 years? 2) is it error free to upgrade to new major version of distro? 3) what kind of automaded toolchains you use for declarative configuration as a code(ansible?) and environment versioning ? 4) how do you install multiple minor versions of package same time? e.g python 3.5.3 , python 3.6
<daftykins> haha, #1 isn't possible
<nacc> dll?
<nacc> you mean windows garbage
<daftykins> careful, you'll sound like an OS wars idiot
<nacc> :)
<daftykins> #2 nope upgrades are never perfect, though many claim they're as smooth as silk
<daftykins> #4 by specifying the full package name i expect
<lexcurious> lotuspsychje thank you for your assistance
<lotuspsychje> np
<nacc> lotuspsychje: for #4, yhou either use virtualenvs, or containers or VMs
<daftykins> oh yeah minor versions
<lexcurious> 1) when user have two packets , both depend on libA.so.1 . second packet upgrades this lib, first packed become broken and incompatible with newer libA.so.1
<nacc> lexcurious: that's not possible with ubuntu pacakges
<nacc> lexcurious: well, i mean, 'becomes broken' is not possible, it should remove one or the other
<nacc> obviously it's "possible", i should correct myself; the intention is ubuntu developers prevent that from happening
<lexcurious> hmm
<lotuspsychje> unless you add external ppa's
<lexcurious> how they do that prevention?
<nacc> lexcurious: if you have a specific example of a supported ubuntu installation doing that
<nacc> lexcurious: by having appropriate dependencies, breaks, conflicts, etc.
<lexcurious> they probably forcing user to upgrade to newer version of 1st package that have libA.so support?
<nacc> lexcurious: i don't know what you eman
<nacc> lexcurious: i'm guessing you're talking abstractly
<nacc> lexcurious: give a concrete example please
<lotuspsychje> lexcurious: whats the purpose of all these questions?
<lexcurious> lotuspsychje , just honestly and openly trying to understand if ubuntu distro could satisfy my needs & use cases
<nacc> lexcurious: i don't see how your questions pertain to use cases
<lotuspsychje> lexcurious: to do what exactly?
<nacc> lexcurious: maybe instead of asking random questions, list your use cases
<nacc> lexcurious: also note that a lot of people use ubuntu for a lot of different things
<lexcurious> lotuspsychje a software development .... I guess ?
<nacc> lexcurious: are you really asking if linux is suitable for you?
<nacc> becuase none of  your questions seem particularly ubuntu specific
<lexcurious> relax, plz) i'm on linux, just thinking if I should make switch to ubuntu, and asking questions based on my needs
<daftykins> don't be rude
<nacc> lexcurious: just list your needs, as your questions seem to be not particularly helpful
<lotuspsychje> lexcurious: we cant help if we dont know 'how' you see development?
<lotuspsychje> if development means installing 5 package versions?
<lexcurious> so lets be short and specific, let's look at use case 1) lets say firefox and vlc both depends on some lib, let's say glibc.so.1  a user want fresh version of vlc, so she updates vlc, vlc updates glibc.so.1   ; firefox could still depend on the old glibc right? so opt1 disto forces user to upgrade firefox, despite she might want keep old ver of firefox. or opt2 no update and firefox can't find correct shared lib
<nacc> what kind of distro do you use that allows your applications to randomly break, lexcurious ?
<nacc> lexcurious: or do you mean they build vlc from source?
<lexcurious> in mentioned use case packages installed from binary repos
<leftyfb> lexcurious: for this sort of development, you could use containers
<nacc> and what distro let's installing one package break another package from the distro?
 * nacc wants to note what distros never to use
<nacc> unless you're on gentoo, in which case, good on you
<nacc> lexcurious: the point you're missing is the 'fresh version' of vlc is coming from ubuntu
<nacc> lexcurious: not from upstream
<lexcurious> nacc at this moment AFAIK Arch. but it forces full system upgrade before installation of particular package . I have used ubuntu more than 10 years ago few times occasionally, and I saw similiar looking problem for dll hell. that made me frustrate, as windows users could easily upgrade software without dependecy breakage and keep multiple versions of same app. Afaik now such issues being tackled with Docker, Snaps. just cl
<daftykins> Arch seems like a really bad idea to dev on :)
<lexcurious> nacc, ok, probably I got it. all software in particular version of ubuntu repo is compatible between each other and tested against such problems, so that problem doesn't exist unless user installs from custom PPA ?
<daftykins> which is why they're warned against
<daftykins> Arch is a rolling release, so you get to deal with breakage every day!
<lexcurious> hmm
<lexcurious> but theretically, how can a user install on modern ubuntu and old version of firefox let's say v20 , and not to break system and other apps?
<lexcurious> is that possible without docker?
<lexcurious> and without recompilation from source
<daftykins> that's not a very practical example since nobody would be sane keeping a browser so vastly out of date
<nacc> lexcurious: you would build from source in a vm
<lexcurious> it is theoretical abstract example, use case, so I will appreaciate clarification of existence or non-existence such proof of concept
<nacc> lexcurious: no, you need to ask a better question.
<nacc> lexcurious: you can't install firefox less than the version in the archive on a given version of ubuntu without tweaks
<lexcurious> can't we just imagine QA department asked me for firefox v20 for testing purposes? If "build from source in vm" is only feasable answer , i will count it
<nacc> lexcurious: and tbh, i don't know of any distro that does allow that
<nacc> maybe gentoo
<nacc> lexcurious: just think about your question for a bit
<nacc> lexcurious: "how do i run an unsupported piece of software?"
<nacc> lexcurious: how is that a point of relevance for the ubuntu distro
<nacc> what is supported is very clear, it's what is in the archive
<lexcurious> well, I didn't knew that it is usupported piece of software, sorry, my apologies
<nacc> lexcurious: what is?
<nacc> lexcurious: you didn't know firefox v20 was unsupported?
<nacc> lexcurious: this makes me think, again, you're not asking the right questions
<daftykins> also, a dev would not be asking i think, they'd work it out first hand
<lexcurious> well, I thought, if X years ago there were firefox v20, and prebuilt binaries, deb packages for ubuntu, so it was supported back then, the question just goes how to install old software. that's was my logic chain
<nacc> lexcurious: well, 'old software' is not supported
<nacc> lexcurious: do you think ubuntu 8.04 is supported now?
<lexcurious> I don't know
<nacc> lexcurious: it's not.
<nacc> lexcurious: LTS releases (now) have 5 year support times, non-LTS have 9 months.
<nacc> lexcurious: so installing an old, now unsupported chunk of software is not supported.
<lexcurious> ok, thnx
<nacc> lexcurious: your thinking makes no sense to me as a software developer, btw
<lexcurious> enterprise some times have rudimentary old proprietary binaries . and sometimes they require to satisfy dependencies, I though it will be possible to run them in modern version of distro. but you prove me wrong, so the only way to run then on old ver disto
<akik> lÃ¶ysin aika pahan bugin launchpadista (apport) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+source/apport/+bug/1739531
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1739531 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "apport-collect SHOULD NOT collect gnome-shell command history and favorites" [High,Confirmed]
<akik> oops sorry
<nacc> lexcurious: 'old proprietary binaries' implies all of ... not ubuntu
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-02-27
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> had a nice weekend EriC^^ ?
<EriC^^> yeah
<lotuspsychje> we too, but cold :p
<EriC^^> :D
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje_> hey ducasse lordievader
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje, lordievader. fine here, thanks, how are you guys?
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje_
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lordievader> Doing good here
<lotuspsychje> great here tnx
<lotuspsychje> updating bionic
<lotuspsychje> https://www.deviantart.com/art/Obscured-732416896
<jink> :)
<lotuspsychje> morning jink
<jink> 'sup? :)
<lotuspsychje> almost goto work : (
<jink> Awwwwwwwwwwwww
<jink> -6 with you as well?
<lotuspsychje> yeah its freezing all week
<jink> Same here.
<jink> Frozen floofs in the backyard. :P
<lotuspsychje> -14 in deeper belgium
<jink> Dafuq. O__o
<ducasse> -17 expected here tomorrow and thursday
<lotuspsychje> yikes
<lotuspsychje> ok prepare for work here guys
<lotuspsychje> cu tonight
<lotuspsychje> have a nice (cold) day :p
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<jink> Hey Kaj.
<BluesKaj> Hi jink
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<OerHeks>  
<pauljw> hi everyone
<daftykins> good evening \o
<pauljw> :)
<tomreyn> hey TJ, do you still remember the set of commands you suggested to me ad an alternative to my apt-show-versions wrapper?
<tomreyn> looks like i forgot to make a note. but it was much better than my approach.
<tomreyn> i.e. the better alternative to https://github.com/tomreyn/scripts/blob/master/foreign_packages you came up with
<tomreyn> hmm actually ubuntu-support-status --list-unsupported now does something quite similar. and maybe better.
<TJ-> tomreyn: let me look
<TJ-> tomreyn: would it be this? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8Ct9dQ6Xzp/
<tomreyn> TJ-: thanks! this doesn't seem to ever quit here (16.04), though
<TJ-> tomreyn: I'll test it here
<TJ-> on an installed system there will be a lot to go through; I'm testing in a container
<TJ-> tomreyn: not surprised it takes a while "apt-cache pkgnames | wc -l" generates over 60K lines
<TJ-> tomreyn: the point was to detect orphaned packages wasn't it? (I assume since the irc log command ends with  "grep -v http"
<tomreyn> TJ-: yes, orphaned packages, but also packages whose version # mismatches the one available from the current apt sources (i.e. is higher)
<TJ-> tomreyn: Ahh, well the IRC command is only going to find orphaned, but it is searching the entire archive list :D
<TJ-> maybe you need an additional filter to only 'madison' the installed packages
<tomreyn> looks like
<tomreyn> thanks for digging this up in your logs :)
<TJ-> tomreyn: this is more like it to only list the installed packges "apt-cache madison $( cut -d / -f 1 <(apt list --installed 2>/dev/null) | sort -b )"
<TJ-> I like how madison's output is the pachage followed by any dependencies... not sure if that causes duplicates though; if so, will need another sort possibly with the -u option, or fed through uniq
<tomreyn> TJ-: hmm this lists many packages i dont have installed (indented)
<tomreyn> maybe those are virtual
<TJ-> tomreyn: oh, I wonder if madison is listing recommends and suggests ? can you pick some and check (will help that the depends/recommends/suggests appear to follow the installed package
<tomreyn> # dpkg -l boost1.58
<tomreyn> dpkg-query: no packages found matching boost1.58
<tomreyn> !info boost1.58 xenial
<ubot5`> libboost1.58-all-dev (source: boost1.58): Boost C++ Libraries development files (ALL). In component universe, is optional. Version 1.58.0+dfsg-5ubuntu3.1 (xenial), package size 4 kB, installed size 36 kB
<tomreyn> so i guess that's virtual
<tomreyn> so i guess madison lists reverse depends for virtual packages or something
<daftykins> hmm bot used to say it was meta i thought
<tomreyn> i asked the bot about "boost1.58", it responded with "libboost1.58-all-dev"
<TJ-> I wonder if we can filter those out too
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: Hummm ... " sysop@x1604:~$ apt list boost1.58 >> Listing... Done" . Not in the repo .
<tomreyn> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gj4zhcBGPf/
<tomreyn> for filtering out: apt-cache madison $( cut -d / -f 1 <(apt list --installed 2>/dev/null) | sort -b ) | grep '^[^ ]' | sort | uniq
<tomreyn> the 'sort' may be superfluous
<TJ-> tomreyn: it looks like the virtual packages are indented by 1 space
<TJ-> tomreyn: try "apt-cache madison libboost1.58-all-dev"
<tomreyn> i think so, too
<TJ-> tomreyn: ahhh no, it's source packages
<tomreyn> which is why ... grep '^[^ ]'
<tomreyn> oh right, that makes more sense
<TJ-> hmmm, could be both... /but/ ... end of the lines we have where it came from "Sources" or "Packages" so that can be used to filter out sources
<TJ-> oh, the indentation is to try to align columns, and it's right-justifying the package name so inserts the blanks to push the | over
<TJ-> tomreyn: here's a nicer one  apt-cache madison $( cut -d / -f 1 <(apt list --installed 2>/dev/null) | sort -b ) | sed -r '/Sources$/ d; /Packages$/ s/^[[:space:]]*(.*)$/\1/'
<tomreyn> so to get back to the original question, this would supposedly list only those orphaned packages?  apt-cache madison $( cut -d / -f 1 <(apt list --installed 2>/dev/null) | sort -b ) | sed -r '/Sources$/ d; /Packages$/ s/^[[:space:]]*(.*)$/\1/' | grep -v http
<tomreyn> but it doesn't for me, it returns an empty set.
<tomreyn> whereas foreign_packages lists several packages as it should be
<tomreyn> e.g. brscan4:amd64 0.4.4-3 installed: No available version in archive
<TJ-> well, the grep -v http is supposed to discard all entries without a known download URL... does madison show a URL for those foreign packages?
<tomreyn> $ apt-cache madison brscan4
<tomreyn> $
<tomreyn> no output at all
<TJ-> ahhh, because it isn't found at all. that's weird
<TJ-> best to stick with what you've got then, and require install of apt-show-versions
<tomreyn> or use ubuntu-support-status --show-unsupported
<tomreyn> thanks for your time!
<TJ-> that last has a major bug I think!
<tomreyn> which?
<TJ-> u-s-s
<tomreyn> i mean what is the bug
<tomreyn> this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1574670
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1574670 in update-manager (Ubuntu Artful) "ubuntu-support-status returns inaccurate information" [High,Fix released]
<tomreyn> (fixed)
<nacc> TJ-: yeah it finally got fixed
<nacc> not sure if it's been backported everywhere or not
<tomreyn> it was, check the nominated releases
<tomreyn> so it's not usable by people who don't have the latest updates installed, but once they have, they can use it ;-)
<nacc> tomreyn: ah cool ( i just ahdn't chekced)
<tomreyn> actuall yi lied, it's not in 12.04 ESM
<nacc> tomreyn: heh
<tomreyn> but all other supported releases got a backport
<tomreyn> :)
<TJ-> I don't see it
<TJ-> which version are you referring to in 16.04? update-manager (1:16.04.12) xenial-security; urgency=medium
<nacc> it was fixed in .11 per the bug
<TJ-> it failed her just now
<nacc> TJ-: i would comment in the bug, as i expect it's assumed to be working :)
<tomreyn> wait, did the patch not get distributed?
<tomreyn> i patched it locally here with the patches posted on the bug tracker and those seem to work correctly
<tomreyn> but i didn't check whether the version distributed is patched
<TJ-> excuse all the powerline terminal codes but http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/rKfTfx9s2D/
<TJ-> the changelog quotes that bug report  (LP: #1574670
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1574670 in update-manager (Ubuntu Artful) "ubuntu-support-status returns inaccurate information" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574670
<tomreyn> can you say what seems to be wrong about the output? i'm not getting it
<tomreyn> like, those "no longer downloadable" packages are porbably no longer downloadable, and the "unsupported" packages may well be unsupported?
<TJ-> it reports as "not downloadable" for e2fslibs (whereas apt-cache policy e2fslibs shows its there) and not supported for apt-file amongst many others
<TJ-> e2fslibs is in main; apt-file is in universe
<tomreyn> your e2fslibs version is a mnewer version than what is available on the apt archives you have configured
<nacc> TJ-: your e2fslibs fversion is not hte ubuntu one
<nacc> :)
<TJ-> wow, yes, well spotted! where the heck did that come from I wonder... tomreyn get your script working!!
<tomreyn> so that's actually a 'foreign package' in my definition of that term
<nacc> heh
<nacc> i'm wondering about unsupported
<TJ-> nacc: how about apt-file though, is 'unsupported' because it's in universe
<tomreyn> yes
<TJ-> that's a pretty poor definition if so
<nacc> it should be community not unsupported
<nacc> i wonder if it's due to stale distro-info-data
<nacc> or buggy
<tomreyn> well there is no guarantee for support, it's the security team's perspective on things
<nacc> TJ-: i'll try and dig into later, need to run errands
<TJ-> dnsmasq in that list too, definitely looks very wrong
<nacc> 'unsupported' is emitted when it can't find a component
<nacc> so that's a bug
<nacc> TJ-: put a comment in the bug and i'll make sure the right folks see it
<tomreyn> i only have dnsmasq-base installed, not dnsmasq
<TJ-> nacc: I'll generate a clean log file first and attach it
<TJ-> I think -base is for the NM dependency isn't it?
<tomreyn> dnsmasq-base -> main whereas dnsmaq -> universe
<tomreyn> i think so, yes
<tomreyn> 'apt-cache rdepends dnsmasq-base' lists network-manager amongst many other
<TJ-> yes, it's a split-component, service in dnsmasq, executable in -base (for NM)
<tomreyn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ#Official%20Support discusses the policies on components
<TJ-> Choice of words is very poor - we've got multiple extremely different meanings for "supported" - Canonical paid support, actively upgraded packages (main), possibly upgraded (universe) and IRC/Askubuntu/forums (basically everything in the archive!)
<tomreyn> yes, i agree a better wording + distincion would be an improvement there
<tomreyn> but generally i'm very happy that it works at all again.
<tomreyn> there should probably separate outputs for "comunity supported" vs "unsupported / support policy could not be determined"
<TJ-> I think the supported word is a bad choice... 'support' implies help is available. "maintained" would be a better choice for upgrade/patch policy "canonical mantained" "community maintained"
<TJ-> ahhh, my e2fsprogs was a self-build to include some advanced features Ubuntu lacks
<tomreyn> right, worth a feature request i guess
<TJ-> I added shingled drive support to the ext4 driver and needed the support in e2fsprogs
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-02-28
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje
<ducasse> how are you today?
<lotuspsychje> fine mate, just had breakfast
<ducasse> haven't gotten that far yet here :)
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> ok prepare for work again..
<lotuspsychje> ttyl guys :p
<ducasse> ttyl
<lotuspsychje> have a nice1 ducasse
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<nacc> TJ-: finally figured out the u-s-s stuff we were talking about
<nacc> TJ-: supported by community is not all of universe
<nacc> it's stuff that specifically has teams signed up to support them
<nacc> so there's a subset of universe that is not that way
<nacc> and therefore is 'unsupported'
<TJ-> Yes, I've been watching the discussion
<TJ-> I still think the word 'supported' is wrong; it should be 'maintained'
<nacc> right
<TJ-> nacc: do you happen to know if there's an easy way to access all Python "@property"s with a single 'print()' or similar - I'm looking at u-s-s and wanting to print all the available properties of the apt.Version() class ( from python-apt) in the for pkg in apt.Cache loop
<nacc> TJ-: dir() ?
<nacc> TJ-: there's also vars()
<TJ-> Yes, I was trying var() but only getting changelog objects ;p
<TJ-> ahhh, maybe I've got to drill down the _pkg
<TJ-> no worries, I can see the light now
<nacc> TJ-: cool
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-03-01
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> 94mb bionic updates
<lotuspsychje> !info libreoffice bionic
<ubot5`> libreoffice (source: libreoffice): office productivity suite (metapackage). In component universe, is optional. Version 1:6.0.1-0ubuntu3 (bionic), package size 11 kB, installed size 100 kB
<lotuspsychje> troll night?
<ducasse> good morning, all
<EriC^^> morning all
<ducasse> morning EriC^^ - all well today?
<EriC^^> morning ducasse
<EriC^^> yes thanks, yourself?
<ducasse> all good here, just freezing cold
<jink> It is!
<jink> :/
<jink> For my dutch pals: belastingaangifte!
<lotuspsychje> bbl work guys
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<jink> Hi BluesKaj.  How've you been?
<BluesKaj> Hi jink coping as well I can, doing ok ...how are you?
<jink> Fine, mostly.  Close to another depression, I think.  Things feel wrongish.  That mostly means it's about to hit me within 2 months.  But it's been like that all my life, so I'm not really complaining (although that might sound weird to some).
<jink> BluesKaj: How are the kids?
<BluesKaj> they're doing ok too
<jink> Oh, lunch break in 10 minutes, btw, so if I'm gone all of a sudden, that'll be why.
 * BluesKaj nods
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - wb :)
<jink> It's weird, though.  I remember my dad dying (15 years ago) and my brother and I are "ok", I guess.  My mom's been alone ever since, which is fine, but weird after having spent most of your lives together.
<BluesKaj>  hey ducasse, thanks , how's things ?
<jink> (For reference, I'm 40.)
<ducasse> good here, but cold
<BluesKaj> mild here for the last 10 days or so, snow is melting away
<ducasse> hope that will happen here soon, but it's been cold lately
<BluesKaj> looks like an early spring atm, but march can be snowy and coid here
<jink> Re.
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<ducasse> evening, lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse how was your day :p
<ducasse> good, just had a friend over, watched a movie. now got to start late dinner
<lotuspsychje> nice!
<lotuspsychje> nordic movie?
<ducasse> yep, the original recording of the movie i saw in cinema recently
<lotuspsychje> cool
<OerHeks> is that movie on a hot, sunny nordic beach?
<OerHeks> i like SF
 * OerHeks bongs the anbox
<lotuspsychje> its snowing in norway OerHeks :p
<lotuspsychje> dont think it would be smart to lay on the beach
<lotuspsychje> !info brightnessctl
<ubot5`> Package brightnessctl does not exist in artful
<lotuspsychje> !info brightnessctl bionic
<ubot5`> brightnessctl (source: brightnessctl): Control backlight brightness. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.3.1-1 (bionic), package size 10 kB, installed size 34 kB
<lotuspsychje> available:Ubuntu - starting with 18.04 (and derivatives)
<lotuspsychje> https://github.com/Hummer12007/brightnessctl
<lotuspsychje> Device 'radeon_bl0' of class 'backlight':
<lotuspsychje> 	Current brightness: 255 (100%)
<lotuspsychje> 	Max brightness: 255
<lotuspsychje> cool stuff
<OerHeks> :-)
<lotuspsychje> hey Carll  welcome
<Carll> Thanks for the invite lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> here's is our lil discuss nest
<lotuspsychje> for a better support experience
<Carll> :)
<lotuspsychje> Carll: wich distro are you on mate?
<Carll> lotuspsychje: windows 10.
<lotuspsychje> okay
<lotuspsychje> and supporting ubuntu?
<Carll> for the moment at least, I operate Ubuntu servers. :)
<lotuspsychje> nice, you do this as daytime job?
<Carll> Nope, looking to get invovled in tech as a career though.
<Carll> involved*
<lotuspsychje> Carll: good idea, check canonical vacancies?
<lotuspsychje> they got a big list
<Carll> lotuspsychje: thanks for the heads up
<lotuspsychje> np
<Carll> lotuspsychje: did you fix the issue you were having last night?
<lotuspsychje> i had an issue?
<lotuspsychje> last night didnt came to irc i think
<Carll> lotuspsychje: you're correct, different person.
<Carll> one of those days, my apologies.
<lotuspsychje> Carll: your servers are xenial?
<lotuspsychje> no sweat
<Carll> correct!
<lotuspsychje> Carll: what purpose they serve?
<Carll> irc, dns, sql, web, vpn, storage etc
<lotuspsychje> cool
<Carll> lotuspsychje: are you in full-time tech?
<lotuspsychje> Carll: well, welcome to the crew and enjoy your stay
<Carll> cheers
<lotuspsychje> Carll: no im part time kitchen part time ubuntu shop/upgrades
<Carll> that's pretty cool.
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<lotuspsychje> my goal is upgrading more existing machines to ubuntu LTS
<lotuspsychje> with samsung 850 pro ssd's
<Carll> I work in construction full time, as a carpenter, destroys the body eventually :(
<lotuspsychje> Carll: yeah had the same problem, so i wanted out
<Carll> lotuspsychje: yeah, linux has many advantages compared to other distros!
<lotuspsychje> Carll: life is too short, to not find our dreams
<lotuspsychje> Carll: hope you find yourself a neat tech job
<OerHeks> !find dreams
<ubot5`> Found: pipenightdreams, pipenightdreams-data, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W: (and 274 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=dreams&searchon=names&suite=artful&section=all
<lotuspsychje> :p
<Carll> you speak the truth, many thanks for the invite and warm welcoming :)
<lotuspsychje> np mate
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks is a starting synth career :p
<lotuspsychje> and he likes roomsoesjes
<ducasse> OerHeks plays chihuahua rock ;)
<OerHeks> vicious love ..
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> https://www.dropbox.com/s/odbzjcjqritl0t3/2015DrabberSStoer.JPG?dl=0
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ducasse> d'aawwww :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) .. Fancy you still here :) - What have I missed in my snooze time ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: slowly in main
<lotuspsychje> and trolls this morning
<lotuspsychje> and we have found a new volunteer to join us Carll
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Well I guess I take your direction, and " wake them up " :P
<OerHeks> lonely people
<Bashing-om> hey Carll // Welome to support .. We can use all the help we can get :)
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<lotuspsychje> 1556 users, and 2000 to come on bionic release
<Carll> Bashing-om: thank you :)
<Bashing-om> Carll: .... so what brought you to ubuntu ? How long now have you been a user ?
<Carll> I used to experiment with ubuntu on a live cd, slowly progressed to servers.
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys
<Carll> lotuspsychje: night!
<lotuspsychje> add to favs Carll and ttyl
<Carll> spending a good 4-5 hours to download the .iso because internet wasnt the best.
<Bashing-om> Carll: I came into ubuntu from server ( slackware ), and gradually graduated to using any GUI, Still not real comfortable with a GUI .. but willing to learn better :)
<ducasse> hiya Bashing-om - long time no see :) still not smoking? ;)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Well,. Better said .. controlled withdrawal .. still not quit quitting .. BUT not getting easy either .
<Bashing-om> ducasse: I relapsed yesterday .. and today I pay the price :P
<ducasse> Bashing-om: well, you have my sympathy... got to quit myself soon, not looking forward to it
<Bashing-om> ducasse: The things we do to ourselves ... I just do not 'know' that the trade off of not smoking is worth the pain .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: maybe not, but i'm not entirely convinced that smoking is worth the immense cost anymore
<Bashing-om> ducasse: I tell ya like I feel .. No ! smoking is not worth the cost in so many ways . Smoking is a pacifier ... just how much of a baby am I ?
<ducasse> Bashing-om: well, i say that, but still roll another one after dinner :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: After eating is my tough time too .. Just have to push through it .. one way or another .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: you stopped doing a couple of hits every few hours?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Yeah, still working on increasing the time span :) Presently stuck on the 2 hours + a few minutes .
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-03-02
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) WB .. Hang'n loose .
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> how was the night
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Been slow but steady - just not much I know much about .
<jink> Hullo.
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje_> hi jink ducasse lordievader
<lotuspsychje_> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5`> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.116.122 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 14 kB
<lotuspsychje_> work time guys, have a great weekend to all!
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<jink> BluesKaj: :/
<BluesKaj> have to wear my wrist brace again
<BluesKaj> beats tylenol for pain relief
<jink> :o
<ducasse> BluesKaj: for rsi?
<BluesKaj> rsi?
<ducasse> repetitive stress injury
<BluesKaj> perhaps, never had it medically dignosed, too much mouseing and playing drums probly doesn't help it either
<BluesKaj> diagnosed
<BluesKaj> ud
<pauljw> hi everyone
<Carll> hey pauljw
<pauljw> hi Carll :)
<Carll> :)
<nacc> people who say "the linux world" are usually talking out their rear
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-03-03
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> 5cm snow here
<lotuspsychje> and big bionic update again
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic bionic
<ubot5`> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.15.0.10.11 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 14 kB
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-18-04-lts-bionic-beaver-enters-feature-freeze-first-beta-lands-march-8-520032.shtml
<lotuspsychje> 822 packages in line wow
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@R00TBOOK:~$ uname -a
<lotuspsychje> Linux R00TBOOK 4.15.0-10-generic #11-Ubuntu SMP Tue Feb 13 18:23:35 UTC 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<lotuspsychje> !resolution
<ubot5`> The X Window System is the part of your system that's responsible for graphical output. To restart your X, type Â« sudo /etc/init.d/?dm restart Â» in a console - To fix screen resolution or other X problems: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Resolution
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse morning mate
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje - all going well?
<lotuspsychje> yeah snowed all under here
<lotuspsychje> but i got coffee :p
<lotuspsychje> and weekend
<lotuspsychje> brb
<ducasse> good, lotuspsychje - tons of snow here, and still pretty cold
<lotuspsychje> lets hope its gone soon
<lotuspsychje> had to ride very slow with bike yesterday into snow
<ducasse> riding bike on snow is not ideal, no
<lotuspsychje> and its electric lol
<lotuspsychje> bbl breakfast :p
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<JimBuntu> hiya BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey JimBuntu
 * JimBuntu used to be known as jimb_
 * BluesKaj has used the same nick since discovering mirc way back on windows 98 :-)
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, I have changed nicks/pseudonyms a fair number of times now
<JimBuntu> Before there was "Ethernet", I was JimEther
<BluesKaj> I was a windows guy up until 2 yrs after retirement , didn't own a personal computer until march of '99. I used to frequent audio chats on mirc back then...discovered linux in '03 but didn't do much with it until '05
<JimBuntu> wow, "didn't own a PC till '99" I guess over-all that's kinda common. Linux wasn't as much of a home/hobby/personal OS in it's early years either, unless you were a dev or dedicated in general. I remember having a friend around '95 who was a dedicated linux user, spent many days getting it to run correctly on his laptop... he was also an IT professional, as I was at the time.
<BluesKaj> in '05 I bought a new pc and that changed everything
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, getting a new computer can do that! I still remember the joy of buying the laptop running XChat on right now... one of the first I ever saw that had a backlit keyboard
<JimBuntu> OMGosh, that was nearly 10 years ago
<BluesKaj> my background is as a lab tech working with spectrophotometers and other lab equipment that used application programs on their computer control systems and early integrators by spectra physics etc... so I used computers everyday, but didn't discover the joys of home use until afterwards
<BluesKaj> the only internet use on the job was a daily email reporting test results
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, ah... I was the person you called when things weren't working as expected (back then). I had a computer at my disposal since I was 5, probably had access to one earlier, but I don't remember using it.
<BluesKaj> we had a couple data entry work stations running windows 3.1 and '95, but they were a necessary evil to most of us due to the redundancy ...the powers that be still wanted hard copy and we regarded the data entry of the same results as nothing but "make work"
<JimBuntu> I hear ya, work duplication. Printing wasn't as fun back then though, dot matrix and all... unless you worked in a big lab that had decent plotters
<BluesKaj> we still had to transfer the results by hand to test result report sheets and duped them on a xerox and handed them out to the engineers involved
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, and I bet it was a REAL Xerox too
<BluesKaj> yup, a monster
<JimBuntu> I like that some still say "xerox" instead of "copy"/etc.  You can generally use it to determine what generation the person is from as it's not as common today... I doubt youngsters use it at all.
<BluesKaj> Xerox leased their equipment back then because it needed constant attention from their techs
<JimBuntu> Yeah, and they didn't want to give up ANY secrets.
<BluesKaj> especially the reliability factor :-)
<JimBuntu> I don't think it was Xerox, specifically, but I remember AT&T spent a small fortune to reverse engineer the fonts used by their copy machine, so they could make slight adjustments
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<Carll> lotuspsychje: afternoon dude
<lotuspsychje> hey Carll how are you today
<Carll> not bad thanks, coming down with something I think. How are you?
<lotuspsychje> Carll: im fine tnx, playing bit with bionic
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje, Carll
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks
<OerHeks> hola lotus
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-03-04
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Wb .. not missed much :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> tnx 4 headsup
<EriC^> morning
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^
<EriC^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> still on coffee here
<lotuspsychje> so 18.04 feature freeze and 16.04.4 out latest news
<EriC^> feature freeze?
<EriC^> wats  that
<lotuspsychje> !schedule
<lotuspsychje> !shedule
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<lotuspsychje> !release
<ubot5`> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 9 months (non-LTS) or 5 years (LTS). More info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<lotuspsychje> EriC^: step before beta1
<EriC^> oh ok
<EriC^> so the features added wont have any more added
<lotuspsychje> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze
<EriC^> cool
<conan_> Hey guys whoz up for a strip club in NYC tonight?
<lotuspsychje> conan_: this also ubuntu chat here
<lotuspsychje> guiverc: welcome
<guiverc> thank you lotuspsychje - i didn't know this room existed (my fault) until i saw you post link before in #ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> guiverc: yeah we use it alot to discuss ubuntu news/support
<guiverc> :)
<Bashing-om> OK - 'nuff of this .. g nite all \o
<guiverc> night Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> nite
<Bashing-om> guiverc: I leave it to you and lotuspsychje to take care of support :)
<lotuspsychje> have a nice sunday guys
<lotuspsychje> out for familly dinner
<ducasse> good morning
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-24
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<deadrom> hi
<lotuspsychje> deadrom: the scope of ubuntu support is advising also the packages from the official repos
<deadrom> I was just told on #ubuntu that src compiling is not endorsed. is that an official statement?
<lotuspsychje> deadrom: i also did not speak against compiling software, i just said it wasnt adviced in the support channel
<lotuspsychje> users can do what they want with their systems
<pragmaticenigma> deadrom: #ubuntu is about supporting the Ubuntu platform as it is provided through the official Ubuntu software channels. You can compile your own applications, but #ubuntu is not the place to receive support for those applications that you have compiled (or assistance with compilation.)
<deadrom> that's pretty limiting.
<deadrom> in the matter at hand that means assisting in installing tor browser on 18.04 would not have been "proper" #ubuntu talk because tor browser is not in ubuntu
<deadrom> where do you draw the line?
<pragmaticenigma> deadrom: The volunteers leverage the documentation that is provided by the Ubuntu community and Canonical that are made available through Ubuntu's official websites. It's also a known state, that the version of an application I'm running should be the same version you are running. If you compile something, I have no way of knowing that the latest version has some new feature.
<lordievader> Very black and white: only the stuff from the Ubuntu repositories is supported. That said, volunteers who happen to have an interest in the question at hand may be able to assist.
<pragmaticenigma> deadrom: And most applications that you can compile, have support sites of their own for assistance. Think of #ubuntu being very general... you need something more specific, you should really look to the community that supports that application to get better help than what #ubuntu could provide you with.
<deadrom> linux or oss in general should be a bit bigger than this. keeping strictly to one's enclave will make you a secluded outsider. I see your point and I see how one should mention when leaving the home plate and wandering into the dark forest, but I don't expect to be restricted when pointing out that answers lie in it
<lordievader> deadrom: You're not. Most things you stumble into with compiling software outside of the repo other people have stumbled into aswell and are able to help out.
<pragmaticenigma> deadrom: again, that's why there are so many channels on freenode. Expand your horizons... plenty of resources on here. Or in the case of "tor" they are part of another IRC network, but would be a much better resource for supporting their application. See https://support.torproject.org/get-in-touch/#irc-help for more information
<deadrom> lordievader, not quite what we had in the channel now.
<lordievader> The thing is, you can't demand support for something outside of the "home plate". The line of supporting and not-supporting needs to be drawn somewhere. The repo is a logical choice for this.
<lordievader> deadrom: Different people have different definitions for what is considered offtopic ð
 * pragmaticenigma catching up, I see you weren't the one seeking help with compliation.... someone else was
<deadrom> pragmaticenigma, which I pointed out to the user who asked about it. the followup questions pointed away from ubuntu so I helped out here - -because I have a rahter wide horizon, some irony telling me so while staking the claim with a ruler
<lotuspsychje> deadrom: there also tor snaps by the way, now also a supported way by ubuntu
<deadrom> lordievader, i dod not demand anything at all. I was telling a user where to find solutions that lay outside ubuntu when he started a project on this platform
<deadrom> *did
<lordievader> deadrom: And you got told off for telling someone where to find solutions/resources?
<deadrom> lotuspsychje, canonical maintains the code in the snaps?
<lotuspsychje> deadrom: no, snaps are a tolerated medium now on ubuntu, but its the maintainer that will support it
<deadrom> lordievader, "told off" would be too harsh, but the bounds of #ubuntu were pointed out clearly
<deadrom> lotuspsychje, how the heck is that any different from ppas?
<pragmaticenigma> Here's where I take issue with assisting beyond the what most have established as the boundary. It's great if someone is able to help with a specific need, even if it is out of scope of what the overall channel believes is "on-topic." What I have concerns with is when someone, such as yourself, isn't in channel anymore and that person comes back looking for more assistance. Now that person started with a pleasent
<pragmaticenigma> experience and now has a negative one becuase they feel abandoned. It was no fault of the helper, but now there is a user that keeps coming back expecting everyone to be just like that one helpful person that is no longer here. That is why it's preferred to stick to the repos as a base of what is and isn't supported. everyone has an equal chance of getting continuing help
<lordievader> deadrom: Oh, that is odd. Good that you where trying to help ðï¸
<lordievader> pragmaticenigma: I'd say that is more a problem of IRC in general.
<lotuspsychje> deadrom: snaps are containerized, and wont get the system in trouble with dependency issues for example
<lotuspsychje> deadrom: but, we do warn our users too, to trust the maintainer of the snap, just like the ppa
<deadrom> pragmaticenigma, good point, I readily admit. well-- how do we handle this in a quick and efficient manner? how about a bot command " !warn user" that shoots a quick disclaimer? "this is outside ubuntu, the community will not necessarily be able to assist you with this while the people currently around are"
<deadrom> once people have seen others use it they should follow the example
<pragmaticenigma> it's the reason that when someone comes in with a question that I feel isn't supportable, I make my best effort to direct them to the resource that will better suit their needs. I personally hate the bot, if only becuase the triggers start with a bang, and I read that as "negative"
<lotuspsychje> deadrom: aka: !compile & !ppa
<pragmaticenigma> A lot of the bot responses are way too harsh in my opinion
<pragmaticenigma> !compile
<ubot5> Compiling software from source? Read the tips at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware (But remember to search for pre-built !packages first). Also read !checkinstall
<pragmaticenigma> !ppa
<ubot5> A Personal Package Archive (PPA) can provide alternate software not normally available in the offical Ubuntu repositories - Looking for a PPA? See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas - WARNING: PPAs are unsupported third-party packages, and you use them at your own risk. See also !addppa and !ppa-purge
<deadrom> pragmaticenigma, but follow the "limits of #ubuntu" idea. extend your horizon a bit beyond your personal notion ;)
<lordievader> <pragmaticenigma "it's the reason that when someon"> This is a nice approach, I like it.
<deadrom> ok! will use those. did not know. need to be around more :)
<deadrom> while *i* for one clearly would not recommend checkinstall, that's dirty deb building and leads to explosions
<lordievader> But exploding installs are the best installs ð
<deadrom> ok, good talk.
<deadrom> if you like explosions, which I do, but not so much on my raid
<Menzador|Work> poofie
<pragmaticenigma> scary to think someone is still running 12.04 (potentially as a public facing server)
<lordievader> You don' t want to know what some public facing servers run...
<leftyfb> I'm still running a 12.04 server, but it's not public facing. It used to, among a bunch of other functions, but now it's file serving up files via cifs and waiting to be replaced with a new one this summer when the makerspace buys it's own building and moves
<Ussat> 12.04.....
<Ussat> I got all uppity when the path lab here was on 14.04 and 16
<lotuspsychje> what was jeremy31 solution?
<Psi-Jack> It was backports-iwlwifi-dkms. ;)
<lotuspsychje> nice
<Psi-Jack> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2432901
<Psi-Jack> basically this, where Linux 5.3.0-40 specifically breaks Intel IWL.
<Psi-Jack> But, 5.3.0-28 (LTS), and 5.3.0-18 (19.10), it works still, before the 40 build.
<lotuspsychje> is there an ongoing bug for this already?
<Psi-Jack> Yep.
<lotuspsychje> whats the ID plz?
<Psi-Jack> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hwe-next/+bug/1833065
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1833065 in linux-hwe (Ubuntu Disco) "Intel WiFi (CNVi) module has no function on Comet Lake [8086:02f0]" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Psi-Jack> That's one, not sure if it's exactly identicle, but it looks related.
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<Psi-Jack> Then there's also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-oem-osp1/+bug/1834415
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1834415 in linux-oem-osp1 (Ubuntu Bionic) "Intel WiFi (CNVi) 9462/9560 on Comet Lake FW error in SYNC CMD GEO_TX_POWER_LIMIT" [Undecided,Fix released]
<lotuspsychje> seems like kenperkins added his comment on it
<Psi-Jack> Yep. As well as mine. :)
<Psi-Jack> Which finally confirmed the bug as a bug.
<lotuspsychje> well there's a lot of intel wifi bugs out there
<Psi-Jack> Which,.... Is actually odd to me. They've had the best WiFi on the market, for a long time....
<Psi-Jack> I had a Samsung laptop, and before I returned it for major hardware issues (including self-corrupting m.2 SATA SSD), it had the later Atheros WiFi, and it worked great.
<Psi-Jack> kenperkins: So... Have you tried it yet? ;)
<Psi-Jack> heh. Been trying to test out Bitwarden myself lately, running my own server, but egawds, their server is such a PITA.
<pragmaticenigma> and someone in the world learns again why unattended upgrades in production might not be a great idea
<Psi-Jack> LOL
<lotuspsychje> being server admin is surely not an easy task
<Psi-Jack> Well, at least we don't have floppy disks anymore, because, lately with all these laptops having powerful magnets in them... Heh
<pragmaticenigma> oh... I still use magnetic media around my stuff (but I'm not an systems admin at a company... just a hobbiest
<Psi-Jack> hehe
<kenperkins> i tried the ubuntu built mainline 5.4.x and 5.5.x and wifi worked, but no audio
<Psi-Jack> I was surprised when my Tabtop and MBP both had super strong magnets when USB dongles just.... affixed themselves onto those spots.
<Psi-Jack> 5.4.x worked with IWL and Audio for me. 5.5.x broke audio. (but this was not ubuntu)
<kenperkins> @Psi-Jack working, just about to start
<kenperkins> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2432901
<Psi-Jack> #3
<oerheks> Psi-Jack, shared the iwlwifi-backport?
<daftykins> hmm is cometlake the one that integrated the wifi onto the CPU die / PCH (on package) for the first time i wonder o0
<daftykins> i forget which generation was going that way
<Psi-Jack> yeah., He was having the exact same issue with the same Intel IWL hardware, different packaging around it. :)
<Psi-Jack> daftykins: I don't ... think so? From videos I've seen there's an mPCIe network adapter in this tabtop. But, I haven't yet cracked it open to verify that.
<Psi-Jack> Dissassembly videos of my Yoga C740-14IML that is.
<daftykins> ah yes it is on CPU, that's what CNVi means
<daftykins> apparently the digital portion is there, but the analog is still external
<Psi-Jack> Oh... Interesting.
<daftykins> https://blog.wirelessmoves.com/2017/09/like-the-gpu-wifi-now-moves-into-the-intel-cpu.html
<kenperkins> ok rebooting with it
<kenperkins> we (Psi-Jack) and I both have comet lake cpus with the intel ac 9560
<kenperkins> Psi-Jack: @jeremy31 that indeed solved the problem
<lotuspsychje> jeremy31 is the iwlwifi wizard :p
<kenperkins> @jeremy31 at some point, presumeably they'll fix this upstream; how do I get back to the distro's iwl
<Psi-Jack> Now, we just need to have linux-*5.3.0-x to be fixed. :D
<daftykins> https://www.cnx-software.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Intel-CNVi.jpg - interesting
<daftykins> so yeah the MAC is in the PCH
<Psi-Jack> Intel incorporates more Evil Inside?    This is why I wanted a Ryzen tabtop and not Intel. :(
<daftykins> Ryzen will be rubbish for both Linux and mobile for another couple of generations i'd say
<daftykins> AMD has pretty much always remained behind in mobile (if you care about battery life that is)
<sarnold> I don't believe AMD is much better than intel that respect https://libreboot.org/faq.html#amd
<sarnold> (though amd has faired drastically better than intel on all the cpu architectural flaws of the last few years)
<daftykins> does kinda make me think it's only a matter of time before we hear about being able to pwn someones laptop over wifi due to say, perhaps a combined exploit against this new CNVio interface and Intel ME or SGX combined perhaps :)
<daftykins> i have no idea what i'm talking about though as security research isn't my field
<Psi-Jack> Especially with the Comet Lake Management Engine Interface.
<daftykins> that's what i mean by ME there ja
<Psi-Jack> yeah, That's one part of Intel I've REALLY been highly opposed to.
<Psi-Jack> Though CL-MEI isn't officially supported until Linux 5.4, which Ubuntu officially doesn't yet come with, stock standard.
<tomreyn> so because the OS doesn't support it that means it's safe? :)
<Psi-Jack> Not necessarily no. LOL
<tomreyn> https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner
<tomreyn> i'm not sure this works on comet lake, though
<pragmaticenigma> Our resident troll ptah is back
<tomreyn> just because i'm discussing ME removal? :-P
<tomreyn> oh you mean in #ubuntu :)
<tomreyn> i think network-manager still uses dhclient btw., at least on 18.04
<pragmaticenigma> yeah... cause tomreyn != ptah
<tomreyn> i can confirm this.
<Psi-Jack> Finally! Got my own Bitwarden server running. Freaking mssql docker instance was insisting on having 2GB RAM, just to run. :/
<pragmaticenigma> sarnold: ptah is trolling... he was in ##linux with the statement "I don't even run linux"
<sarnold> pragmaticenigma: oh jeeze
<oerheks> yeah, how unlikely his system got corrupted with upgrading firefox like that
<oerheks> oh, he is back in #linux after kick
<oerheks> just lonely people, i guess
<daftykins> :)
<Ussat> Psi-Jack, we do here also
<Psi-Jack> We do?
<Ussat> We do, my team uses Bitwarden
<Psi-Jack> Oh!
<Ussat> We run our own Bitwarden server also
<Psi-Jack> I'm checking out Bitwarden from using Enpass, where, the software is closed source, but the location I can store my database is my own.
<Ussat> We are very happy with it
<Psi-Jack> So far, after getting the server itself running, it's not seeming bad at all. I don't like that their server uses mssql.
<Ussat> ya well
<Psi-Jack> hehe
<Ussat> I was not thrilled, but still. We like it
<Psi-Jack> it does warrant more testing, and evaluation at the least.
<Ussat> Ya, we are still in that phase
<Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. I see it has a TOTP token input.. But doesn't seem to show the TOTP value or provide it as a means to copy it.
<kenperkins> I'm pretty thrilled that worked
<Psi-Jack> And no one's gonna save you from the beast about to strike?
<ducasse> there's no rescue from the management engine
<Psi-Jack> Except, don't use Intel.
<ducasse> amd has pretty much the same thing, don't they?
<Psi-Jack> They have something called TrustZone.
<daftykins> totally different
<Psi-Jack> yeah, that looks totally different.
<Psi-Jack> Oh sheash... To use the TOTP tokens in Bitwarden, you have to pay for the premium features. (Granted, $10/yr).
<daftykins> yikes that's not something i'd touch then
<daftykins> i'm actually about to be converting a client over to a password management setup since their idea of security is one or two passwords for everything saved in a 2003 MS Word .doc easily searchable on the PC
<Psi-Jack> Yeah. I'm better off with Enpass on that regards.
<daftykins> current plan was KeePassXC without the browser integration and a nice master password, but i'm really hesitant based on the user training hassle
<Psi-Jack> I believe, with Enpass, I simply paid for the mobile apps, and the rest is completely without charge. Closed source, but I sync it up on my own NextCloud server. It just lacks a CLI.
<Psi-Jack> KeePassXC is nice, but it's the mobile apps for KeePass that just absolutely suck.
<pragmaticenigma> Can't say I have had much issue with the KeePass app that I use on Android
<Psi-Jack> Well, the only somewhat half decent KeePass client or iOS is KyPass, and.. It's atrocious.
<Ussat> If 10$ a year is bank breaking......bigger issues :)
<daftykins> i think for this client mobile isn't important so i won't be enabling that
<Psi-Jack> It's not. it's the constant payments for a single feature?
<Ussat> eh....cost of business....hardly a deal breaker and honestly....people need to be paid
<Psi-Jack> true. $10/yr is honestly NOT that bad.
<Psi-Jack> Considering I used to pay LastPass $12/yr :)
<Psi-Jack> Just for 2FA.
<Psi-Jack> But, then they wanted more money.
<Psi-Jack> And in this case, $10/yr is actually more 2 features for me. 2FA login and TOTP.
<daftykins> i was thinking about throwing these folks on a simple paid platform, but i would rather none of it lived online really
<Psi-Jack> Still though, I'd like even a trial of the premium features, so I can validate whether or not it's worth it. :)
<daftykins> yeah that makes sense
<Psi-Jack> Yeah. Enpass, I have that. I just have it login, then the TOTP prompt comes up, and I paste in, and it works, every time. Bitwarden disables that entirely unless you have a premium account.
<Ussat> Psi-Jack, you can email and ask for one....thats what I did
<Psi-Jack> heh, course the other factor. Running my own bitwarden server, getting it to send a verification email, seems.... Problematic.
<Psi-Jack> Oh?
<Ussat> yup
<Psi-Jack> They will give a trial premium membership?
<Ussat> But, like I said I am useing it for my whole team
<Ussat> and wanted to eval it
<Psi-Jack> Right.
<Ussat> Psi-Jack, they did me
<Psi-Jack> Well, that's something :)
<Ussat> JUst shot em an email on my work email account
<Ussat> Cant hurt to ask :)
<Psi-Jack> I'd be asking from my "work" email address too, since it's from my own domain name. hehe
<Ussat> We are also VERY heavy duo users
<Psi-Jack> I use Yubico and U2F, myself.
<Ussat> Ya, some people here have Yubico (I do) but we are also heavy DUO users. I work in a clinical env and we have HIPAA data we deal with
<Psi-Jack> Ahhh, fun fun.
<Ussat> EVERYTHING is 2FA
<Psi-Jack> Well, New Yubikey 5 is FIPS. :)
<Ussat> NIce
<Psi-Jack> :)
<Psi-Jack> I know,. I plan to get a few upgrades. L(
<Psi-Jack> :)
<Ussat> yup.......we will prob look into it
<Psi-Jack> I have 4 Yubikey 4's.
<Ussat> infosec dept is VERY security paranoid
<Psi-Jack> 1 was actually a gift from Yubico for failing to ship my order from Amazon. In fact, until I communicated with them, nobody even noticed.
<Ussat> which is good, because the Dept of Health Human services levies HUGE fines
<Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. I don't see a single way to configure or otherwise, get some kind of email pathway setup for this bitwarden server.
<Psi-Jack> Ahh, env/*
<JoeLlama> moo
<sarnold> llamas don't moo! deception uncloaked!
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> cannot confirm, haven't met a llama... but if winamp's old startup sound is anything to go by, they sound more like sheep
<JoeLlama> hi sarnold
<JoeLlama> it really whips my ass daftykins
<sarnold> I don't remember a winamp startup sound
<JoeLlama> so sarnold xubuntu installed and working
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> sarnold: to be more accurate it was the one-time play post install
<JoeLlama> yes winamp really whips the llamas ass (google)
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaF-nRS_CWM
<daftykins> still no news on the new version :(
<sarnold> JoeLlama: woo! nice :)
<JoeLlama> sarnold now looking at chromium and opera for browser for faster startup etc.//
<JoeLlama> can't install brave on the 32 bit box
<daftykins> are you finding Firefox slow? o0
<daftykins> 32-bit? nooooo
<JoeLlama> yes very slow
<JoeLlama> VERY slow
<sarnold> daftykins: lollol
<daftykins> even with a clean profile?
<JoeLlama> on an intel atom n270 1.6 GHz
<JoeLlama> little 9 inch laptop
<daftykins> ah well see, that's your problem, you're using a calculator as a computer
<JoeLlama> clean profile?
<JoeLlama> do tell
<JoeLlama> yes :)
<JoeLlama> single core two threads (: heh
<JoeLlama> yes yes I have a pile of these
<daftykins> sorry, knowing it's that hardware it's not worth it
<JoeLlama> a fancy calculator more powerful than a cray
<daftykins> err no it's not
<JoeLlama> no not worth it
<JoeLlama> need lite weight browser
<JoeLlama> I also have a pile of Intel Atom n450 computers (upgrading them to n470)
<JoeLlama> but those are 64 bit
<JoeLlama> no it's not?
<JoeLlama> crays were pretty slow compared to these days
<JoeLlama> gunna moo
<JoeLlama> moo
<JoeLlama> cellphones have more power than crays
<JoeLlama> and don't get as hot :)
<JoeLlama> I have a two 2.8 GHz boxes next
<JoeLlama> one for windows 10 (ew ew!) and one for linux
<sarnold> I'm really impressed these little things work well enough to keep em going
<JoeLlama> also have a flash drive I need to cut open with dremel and resolder plug...  I will install ISO to that
<JoeLlama> yes sarnold they work realloy well just slow
<JoeLlama> like rock solid work well :)
<JoeLlama> takes 7 to 10 seconds to open firefox so firefox is going away
<JoeLlama> I like opera
<JoeLlama> chromium was recommeneded
<sarnold> try this :) http://edbrowse.org/
<JoeLlama> oOo I look
<JoeLlama> main problem I find with browers is that not all of them work with every site
<JoeLlama> firefox seems to work with them all
<Bashing-om> UWN619 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue619
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-25
<Psi-Jack> Nice.. Bitwarden folks got me an enterprise trial pretty dang quickly.
<daftykins> :D
<Psi-Jack> I mean, literally. Less than an hour of my request!
<Psi-Jack> And, the interface is turning out to be, so far, comparably as good as Enpass's, which is pretty dang good.
<Psi-Jack> only 2 weeks,. though.
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<pragmaticenigma> tomreyn: I believe frenda is running a private server on a residential internet connection
<tomreyn> pragmaticenigma: you mean teknik.io is theirs?
<tomreyn> hmm no i guess you didn't mean this.
<tomreyn> i guess i'm fine with them running a private server on a residential internet connection
<pragmaticenigma> tomreyn: based on the ip address registered to the domain tomreyn
<pragmaticenigma> hmm... guess not... looks like the site is just a pastebin like provider
<tomreyn> pragmaticenigma: yes, it seems to be just another file + image + text hosting / url shortening / ... service
<pragmaticenigma> -ops has got to be loving all the attention "guest" is creating with the bot
<leftyfb> I have yet to see them ask for help in #freenode
<pragmaticenigma> Psi-Jack: The away message hasn't been enforced in a very long time, and it was more for when clients would auto set people away and they'd come and go several times in a few minutes. Simon has never been such a burden which is why it hasn't been brought up before to them
<Psi-Jack> Oh? heh.
<Psi-Jack> I've been asking people to stop that for 25 years. :)
<pragmaticenigma> we each have our tolerances... mine is only if it is happening with high frequency with in 5 to 10 minute (similar to the #fixyourconnection)
<Psi-Jack> indeed. Just the fact it's automated is enough for me. ; )\
<lotuspsychje> that wasnt an away message, but just a nick rename?
<lotuspsychje> nick renames arent forbidden
<Psi-Jack> it's listed in the policy actually.
<lotuspsychje> what?
<Psi-Jack> Yep. :)
<lotuspsychje> to not rename a nick?
<Psi-Jack> Don't use public away messages
<Psi-Jack>     Some clients have the ability to announce when you are "away" from the IRC client, and also when you come back. Some clients can also be configured to change your IRC nick-name when away and back. If your client has such an option, please ensure that it is disabled
<lotuspsychje> Psi-Jack: it wasnt an away message
<Psi-Jack> A nick change technically is public, and global.
<lotuspsychje> i think you confuse with /me is now away
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje: No... Psi-Jack is correct
<Psi-Jack> No. /nick Psi-Jack_AWAY is still a public away message.
<lotuspsychje> but simon didnt do that? he renamed his nick?
<lotuspsychje> unless he used the /me to do it
<Psi-Jack> ... Imagine every one of the hundreds (or thousands) of people in each channel doing that. It's not a pretty sight. Changing your nick to user-away is frowned upon. If you want to set away do it silently with "/away Reason" then when someone uses your name they are told you are away and the channel is not disturbed.
<lotuspsychje> if i want to rename myself to lotus|away im allwed right?
<pragmaticenigma> Psi-Jack: there isn't anything in the guidelines forbidding the chaning of a nick though... no matter what it is changed to... AFK could mean anything to Simon... could be the name of another computer
<Psi-Jack> I remember when #ubuntu was drowning in activity from Q&A, automated away/back situations, etc... It was a dissaster.
<pragmaticenigma> Psi-Jack: That hasn't been a problem in the last 2-3 years that I have been participating in #ubuntu
<Psi-Jack> Heh,. AFK is a standard for "Away From Keyboard".
<pragmaticenigma> Psi-Jack: It is also an abbreviation for Afkorting
<lotuspsychje> is somone abuses too many nick changes, thats another story..
<pragmaticenigma> really... unless it's happening with high frequency... just let it be... we have bigger fish to fry
<Psi-Jack> Now, the irony is.. We've spent more time here talking about it, then the interaction in #ubuntu itself. where his resolution was to simply /part. Which is an acceptable response to not wanting to follow good IRC netiqute.
<Psi-Jack> :)
<lotuspsychje> 24/7 idlers need to part now?
<Psi-Jack> Do they use away nicks? :)
<pragmaticenigma> Psi-Jack: And you're presently acting as "self appointed sheriff" ... if you have a problem with another member... take it to -ops ... don't try to battle it on your own
<Psi-Jack> He's the only one I've seen in the past 48 hours. ;)
<pragmaticenigma> Psi-Jack: Exactly... hardly constitutes a reprimand
<Psi-Jack> Now, with him however, I'd seen it multiple times.
<Psi-Jack> but, for -ops... Yes... That may be more appropriate.
<pragmaticenigma> Psi-Jack: They're the only ones that I see do it... and I typically see it once or twice per 24 hours... hardly a case for abuse
<Psi-Jack> Heh, to me, DOING it is abuse, period, but that's a personal battle I've had ever since IRC invented /away finally. :)
<Psi-Jack> That was.. ~28 years ago?
<pragmaticenigma> Don't know... but seeing as you have been away from #ubuntu for a spell... it might be a good time to relax, take in the overall feel of the channel
<pragmaticenigma> and again... when in doubt -ops :-)
<Psi-Jack> True!
<Psi-Jack> So, I definitely can understand all angles of this. And, I know it's not my place to impose or act upon. Bad habbit of mine. :)
 * jelly tries hard not to have a deja vu
<pragmaticenigma> jelly: when did you wake up?
<jelly> it's been around 12 hours
<Psi-Jack> heh
<pragmaticenigma> reviews lo... oh wait ... channel isn't on there anymore
<Psi-Jack> Yo jelly! :)
<jelly> hello there.
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-26
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<Psi-Jack> Oops. Meant that for here, about Gnome/GDM themes. After looking at themes for GDM I'm still scratching my head going... What happened? This used to be much easier...
<lotuspsychje> !themes
<ubot5> Find your themes at: http://www.gnome-look.org - http://art.gnome.org - http://www.kde-look.org - http://kubuntu-art.org - http://freecode.com/tags/theme - http://www.guistyles.com - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/ - Also see !changethemes and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuEyeCandy
<Psi-Jack> Sure, they exist, but they are all varrying in how to "install" them.
<Psi-Jack> Including..... Replacing parts of the Yaru theme to accomplish it.
<lotuspsychje> checkout deviantart & unixporn for the theme parts you trying, alot of screenshot showoffs include their techniques
<Psi-Jack> Well, keep in mind, I'm not trying to make a theme, but use a theme. I don't much like the Yaru purple gdm login. :)
<lotuspsychje> i never said make
<Psi-Jack> Hmm. true.
<sarnold> .. and possibly how he found the desire for two different libssls installed at once
<lotuspsychje> help im in trouble, no i dont need help, help i need latest, no i wont show you what i did wrong..
<lotuspsychje> lol
<sarnold> nice summary :)
<Psi-Jack> !changethemes
<ubot5> To change GNOME themes: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuEyeCandy. Kubuntu (KDE) themes: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CustomizeKubuntu. Xubuntu (Xfce): !xfce-themes
<Psi-Jack> Heh.
<Psi-Jack> First link is so old it's way outdated from 11.04.. Wow. :)
<lotuspsychje> feel free to find a newer wiki
<lotuspsychje> you are part of the community Psi-Jack
<sarnold> I've thought before that we might be well-served to find and delete one old wiki page a day
<sarnold> (a) find something no longer useful (b) submit it to archive.org (c) after they index it, kill it
<sarnold> of course I've only ever done this like three times because following through on this would be a bit of an undertaking :)
<Psi-Jack> Finally. Changed the background image at least of the login theme to something acceptable.
<lotuspsychje> wich theme are you plaing with? got a link?
<Psi-Jack> It's just Yaru, with #lockDialogGroup background image added.
<Psi-Jack> Instead of purple noise.
<Psi-Jack> Annnd, now my plymouth stuff is a nice b.... Well, it shut down as blue, but booted up purple. :/
<lotuspsychje> i just autologin, never need a login background
<Psi-Jack> Oh man.. Not me. Autologin is bad.
<lotuspsychje> its the users choice
<Psi-Jack> Hmm, well, this is getting close.... but it's still not perfect.. :/
<Psi-Jack> Shutdown, the plymouth is blue. Boot, however, it's purple.
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<code1o6> Is it possible to do a fresh install on a vm, install what I need and then repackage it to a livecd?
<Psi-Jack> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
<code1o62> Psi-jack, that is not exactly what I'm asking for
<Psi-Jack> No, it's not. But that's how you create a Live CD generally speaking. :)
<Psi-Jack> Converting a VM to an ISO.... That's a whole different ballgame.
<code1o62> Psi-Jack, how do I add files to the home directory?
<code1o62> Is that possible?
<Psi-Jack> Why?
<Psi-Jack> What is your /actual/ goal?
<code1o62> Sigh, well I'm building an offline CA generation usb key. I need to install some python tools that I wrote and I'd like to have them built in to my image
<pragmaticenigma> code1o62: Why not use Live USB with persistance?
<code1o62> How can I assure no one has made modification to my Live USB
<Psi-Jack> So, you'd follow the guide accordingly, and you could go a step futher, and make a multi-partition bootable USB drive with storage space you can mount.
<Psi-Jack> sha512 checksums.
<pragmaticenigma> code1o62: that's on you to protect the drive...
<Psi-Jack> Armed Guards. :)
<pragmaticenigma> code1o62: Ubuntu isn't designed for this sort of application. There are specialized distros out there capable of such feature sets. I think you should research and find something that is more applicable to your use case
<code1o62> Can i follow the same steps for an ubuntu image https://www.kali.org/docs/usb/dojo-kali-linux-usb-persistence-encryption/?
<code1o62> using luks
<pragmaticenigma> code1o62: It might work, but there are no guarantees. Kali is not Ubuntu
<code1o62> I'll give it a try and report back :)
<code1o62> Thank you all
<Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. Did libgnome-keyring (and libgnome-keyring-dev) up and vanish?
<oerheks> disco was the latest? https://launchpad.net/libgnome-keyring/+packages
<Psi-Jack> Hmmm,. Seems gnome-keyring was deprecated for libsecret. grrr. LOL
<Psi-Jack> One aspect of Gnome I've always hated. "Hey! Here's a thing!" Later..... "Here's a new thing! The old one's deprecated!"
<Ussat> best GUI is CLI
<Ussat> :)
<Psi-Jack> Heh
<Psi-Jack> I like libsecret to remember/save/use stored passwords. :)
<Psi-Jack> And, Ussat, Bitwarden people are fast! Within 2 hours I had my 2-week trial license.
<Psi-Jack> Still not sure about running it though. 2GB RAM just to run something small-time, because mssql..
<Ussat> nice
<Psi-Jack> Ya.. Easy enough,..
<Psi-Jack> Now, just trying to recall how to get yadm to properly apply my dotfile variations. I have a .gitconfig##o.Fedora and now .gitconfig##o.Ubuntu, but it's not linking the Ubuntu one over. :/
<Psi-Jack> Oh, dang. d, not o. LOL
<lotuspsychje> good evening
<JanC> why would mssql need 2 GiB RAM?
<sarnold> do you expect it to use more or less?
<JanC> I would expect it to use much less when configured properly?
<daftykins> it sounds very specific to that webapp
<Psi-Jack> Good question. That's the error I was getting from the mssql docker container for bitwarden.
<JanC> maybe it's made for enterprise use?
<Psi-Jack> Probably, but still, they don't provide good documentation on it.
<lotuspsychje> !info lcov bionic
<ubot5> lcov (source: lcov): Summarise Code coverage information from GCOV. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.13-3 (bionic), package size 90 kB, installed size 404 kB
<lotuspsychje> did he add an external ppa, or playing with backports?
<pragmaticenigma> just ban him already... this is a regular joke to them... they're not even running ubuntu... and has said as much before
<hggdh> sarnold: thank you. I lost my patience there
<sarnold> hggdh: yeah.. he doesn't seem great at The Google
<sarnold> I'm off to lunch now ;)
<hggdh> and his attitude sucks
<lotuspsychje> bon apetit
<Ben64> yeah that attitude is really poopy
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-27
<Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. Now, evaluating KeePassXC and iOS options, if any exist yet that are viable.
<pragmaticenigma> To my knowledge XC is uses the same file format as KeePassX (kdbx format) ... so I should think any are potential candidates... no?
<Psi-Jack> They do use that format, newer versions of it. And there are /some/ options. Not always that good, specifically on the IOS side.
<Psi-Jack> like, there's Strongbox now. I don't recall that being a thing a few years ago.
<Psi-Jack> But, you have to pay for some features of it, heavily, if you want it. Like syncing.,
<Psi-Jack> By heavily, I mean up to ~$38 for a lifetime license.
<sixwheeledbeast> KeePassium?
<Psi-Jack> Hadn't tried that one yet.
<Psi-Jack> Heh, well, my old KeePassXC database still works. :)
<Psi-Jack> keepassium also has a lifetime license, but $27.
<Psi-Jack> Doesn't support TOTP though.
<Psi-Jack> Strongbox does. :)
<ducasse> i wish my phone supported nfc so i could use my yubikey to unlock my keepass db
<Psi-Jack> heh
<Psi-Jack> Wellll.. Hmmmm..
<Psi-Jack> This approach is indeed, working so far... I think the main issue I had before was form fields not always being reliable.
<pragmaticenigma> cause Cook and Jobs know better... you don't need form fields :-)
<pragmaticenigma> you just need a single button and an imagination
<Psi-Jack> Well I wouldn't mind SQRL being more popular. But I get it's so very new, still. :)
<pragmaticenigma> Oh... the gibson and twit... if it never gets promoted anywhere... it's not really going to take off I fear
<Psi-Jack> Well, they need apps, first. Cross platform all over./
<Psi-Jack> And not just in beta. :)
<Psi-Jack> Hmmm yeah..
<Psi-Jack> KeePassXC still failing form fields. In this easy example, AWS IAM login.
<Psi-Jack> Oh boo! And the Alt+Shift+T they suggest is to fill in the TOTP, just opens the Tools menu option of Firefox. :/
<Psi-Jack> Looking more and more like Enpass, for me, is still the most viable solution.
<Psi-Jack> Lacks a CLI tool, but with some work I could get that working again.
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lotuspsychje> !info stacer
<ubot5> Package stacer does not exist in bionic
<lotuspsychje> nt0: dell has mostly good ubuntu support
<lotuspsychje> nt0: but every machine has hardware components inside, that possible 'could' trigger a bug on a specific kernel
<nt0> aye--my worry awhile back was that my laptop didn't ship with an intel wifi chipset as in the developer editions (but i'm not really concerned about that)
<lotuspsychje> iwlwifi suffers some bugs lately on 5.0 and 5.3 kernels
<lotuspsychje> realtek can also be a pain, but that doesnt mean things cant be solved right
<nt0> i'm not an expert but i'm pretty savvy with this sorta stuff--patched the source for a relatively new (at the time) usb-wifi card to enable monitor mode a year or so ago.  that's my proudest HW moment.
<nt0> 5+ kernels have regressions in iwlwifi?
<lotuspsychje> some intel chipsets do yeah
<nt0> i use gentoo on my main box (this one) but use ubuntu in a VM on my 9560 (which i continue to allow evil MS to exist on out of my own laziness) and recently helped a friend out with a fresh 19.10 install
<nt0> tbh 19.10 was snappy/clean enough to cause me to think about using ubuntu again (i had forsaken it for various reasons) and now that i've read that the amazon cruft will no longer be default i'm back on board
<nt0> bummer re: regressions.  i'll figure out which one i actually have and look into it.  thank you
<lotuspsychje> i have both intel & realtek working on 20.04 here
<lotuspsychje> kernel 5.4 currently
<Psi-Jack> Hmmm.
<Psi-Jack> I'd noticed that Fedora 31 had no iwl issues. Just Intel HDA issues on 5.5.5
<nt0> pure curiosity: what causes bugs in HDA?  isn't that pretty much set in stone as a standard?
<nt0> i can imagine hardware that might be on one side or the other of some expectation set by software
<nt0> iirc HDA has been around for a long, long time now
<lotuspsychje> i havent seen alot of audio bugs lately
<Psi-Jack> Yeah. with many varations and bugs. LO
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<code1o6> Hi everyone, I followed this tutorial https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization . Unfortunately, my resulting iso doesn't have a partition table. I'm able to boot my image from KVM but not from a usb
<code1o6> the only step I didn't follow was cdrecord as I used dd instead.
<code1o6> is this the right place to ask?
<daftykins> not really as, given the topic, it's not a support channel - #ubuntu or #ubuntu-server might be some use
<pragmaticenigma> giaco: dragonriver is already here too
<dragonriver> giaco, a lot of modern hardware has 4k physical sectors, which it presents as 512 byte logical sectors. By default, old luks format will set the sector to 512 bytes, so do 4 calls when only 1 is needed. You get much better performance.
<pragmaticenigma> dragonriver: Do you mean the block would have 4k sectors? or is that per track on the drive?
<pragmaticenigma> how does the topology work?
<giaco> dragonriver: thanks for the info, but fdisk print shows 512 for all my disks. I'll keep the info for the future
<dragonriver> pragmaticenigma, just the sector size on the disk, it doesn't have to do with the block size. I'm trying to find links, but can't right now.
<daftykins> 'Advanced Format'
<pragmaticenigma> so a sector is still a sector, now I see how you get the multiple trips then
<dragonriver> Yes. Most disks have hybrid advanced format 4k. It allows the disk to operate as having real sector size of 512 bytes, but in reality the sectors are 4k. In reality, the speedup isn't 4x, because the hdd controller is smarter than that, but it does have 4 times writing or checking the invisible crc that is on the 4k sector (invisible because that's handled internally by the hdd, not available to the OS.
<dragonriver> The only real difference between 512 and 4096 byte sector size is lower overhead on the error correction on the sector, which allows hdds to have slightly higher density.
<pragmaticenigma> do most OSes detect this and leverage it? or is that something the user needs to configure on format to properly leverage?
<daftykins> besides partition sector alignment, it's the controller's job
<giaco> so it could be that the disk has sector 4k but it shows as 512 because the controller says that?
<giaco> for controller, I mean the usb disk envelope
<pragmaticenigma> If Wikipedia is to be believed: For hard disk drives working in the 4K native mode, there is no emulation layer in place, and the disk media directly exposes its 4096, 4112, 4160, or 4224-byte physical sector size to the system firmware and operating system.
<dragonriver> pragmaticenigma, virtually no OS detects this, and most time it's impossible to detect. Some HP hardware does expose this information (not consumer, I'm talking serious server hardware).
<pragmaticenigma> It sounds like I'd need to know the drive has this, and configure it when I go to format the disk?
<dragonriver> Oh. You can see the logical and physical sizes no problem. For example "Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes". What's hidden is the crc overhead that the sector has internally.
<pragmaticenigma> How can "see" it then?
<dragonriver> for example, fdisk -l
<pragmaticenigma> giaco: Cool that you're taking steps on encrypting data at rest... do you have any concerns about the performance of the system though? with those being encrypted
<pragmaticenigma> ah, okay... simple as that then
<pragmaticenigma> thanks dragonriver
<dragonriver> In my experience encrypting the entire drive has very very low performance penalty, if your cpu has the aes instruction set. You can always run a benchmark with "cryptsetup benchmark" to see what type of penalty you can expect.
<pragmaticenigma> one of mine has a performance hit... but it has more to do with not enough RAM and the choice in drive encryption
<dragonriver> You will definitely feel a performance hit, especially for things like SQL workloads. But whole disk luks is less bad than fscrypt. See for example https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ext4-crypto-418&num=3
<dragonriver> Notice that for workloads like compilation and nginx page serving the penalty is around 0%.
<pragmaticenigma> yeah... this setup is a windows laptop, i7 gen 2 or 3, with 8 GB ram, using veracrypt... it works well enough, but it's going to get wiped soon, and I'll move to having an encrypted partition, and leave the OS unencrypted... first issue is veracrypt isn't steller, but that's all that I have presently found for the Windows side of the world
<dragonriver> veracrypt is very, very strong. You can setup deniable containers in files, the whole lot.
<pragmaticenigma> yes, but FDE just doesn't seem like it is fully there
<pragmaticenigma> As soon as anything starts swapping memory, I get a system crash... might be able to mitigate it by creating a partition for the windows swap file
<pragmaticenigma> might be another option
<dragonriver> I remember you can. You could with the old one.
<pragmaticenigma> donofrio: please provide complete answers in the future. that was most unhelpful and confusing for the person that asked for help
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-28
<sarnold> oerheks: wow that's a lot of changed / new packages
<oerheks> yeah, and why libmesa .. newer drivers that might interfere.. or it is just an odd resolution selected.
<oerheks> 1080 but over 2 screens, that might be it
<oerheks> snap games, do not have this autodetect resolution problem sofar i noticed.
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<oerheks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
<oerheks> sarnold, we do need to ask more info, what his configure error is ..
<oerheks> and he comes up with a smart answer.
<oerheks> *hips*
 * lotuspsychje stays out with ppa's :p
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> !encrypt
<lotuspsychje> what you think of this wiki EriC^^ https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Full_Disk_Encryption_Howto_2019
<lotuspsychje> would it suit well for a new !encrypt ?
<EriC^^> no idea, i've never done one myself or have info on it
<lotuspsychje> seems like its meant to be to replace to old wiki
<EriC^^> yeah it seems new and detailed
<lotuspsychje> !info wireguard bionic
<ubot5> Package wireguard does not exist in bionic
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: confirming its in 20.04 repos now ^^
<lotuspsychje> 1.0.20200206-2ubuntu1
<lotuspsychje> anyone has a suggest for a new !encrypt factoid, seems like TJ- is working on a new wiki for it: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Full_Disk_Encryption_Howto_2019
<pragmaticenigma> would probably be a good idea to wait until TJ- finshines the page before linking anything there?
<lotuspsychje> looks already neat to me, no?
<lotuspsychje> but sure, might be good idea to talk with TJ about it
<lotuspsychje> if i catch him :p
<pragmaticenigma> last edit was 2019-12-30... might be close to done?
<pragmaticenigma> !grub
<ubot5> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager. Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
<pragmaticenigma> !uefi
<ubot5> UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. It is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
<JoeLlama> I'm loooking for archival/backup software to run under ubuntu.  It needs to be able to image a hard drive, be able to open the image file to view directories and retrieve files, and of course restore that image file to a hard drive.  It also needs a decent GUI.  What's out there I can research please? :)
<daftykins> everything i use doesn't meet your chosen requirements xD
<JoeLlama> yeah daftykins I'm starting to  get the feeling it doesn't exist
<daftykins> clonezilla doesn't allow image browsing, but it doesn't stop you restoring in a VM or to a spare disk and browsing manually
<daftykins> it also doesn't really have a GUI as it needs to be booted on a target system, but the menus are simple
<JoeLlama> Yeah I was thinking about just doing that
<JoeLlama> okay thanks daftykins :)
<JoeLlama> hrm you don't hang on #ubuntu huh daftykins?
<daftykins> nope
<JoeLlama> o k ! : )
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-02-29
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: Hey there... question from earlier (and maybe it was already asked) ... is your write up on FDE in the community pages ready for prime time, or are there still somethings to polish?
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: I've had a couple of errors reported I've fixed so in theory it is now correct
<pragmaticenigma> cool... lotus was wondering, they'd like to update the !encrypt trigger to point there
<TJ-> Drop the warning for the page then? so as not to scare people?
<pragmaticenigma> maybe? that's why i asked for caution before sending the masses ther
<pragmaticenigma> *there
<TJ-> Doing it now
<pragmaticenigma> been a lot of questions in #u for FDE, didn't want to complicate that further if something wasn't ready :-)
<TJ-> "waiting for help.ubuntu.com" ... for 5 minutes now
 * pragmaticenigma plays elevator music
<TJ-> All done, also added it to the Installation category
<pragmaticenigma> cool, I'll pass the good news along
<oerheks> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Full_Disk_Encryption_Howto_2019 yay
<sarnold> lol love the 2019 in the title
<oerheks> should be 2018...
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: I'm still running MX Linux on these laptops that had the screen corruption when attempting power save... after a couple months now, they're still running solid with no sign of that issue. Could it somehow be caused by systemd?
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: almost anything *could* be caused by the init system.. but I'd suspect more likely some difference in kernel config/drivers or tooling config that controls power saving
<pragmaticenigma> wonder what that could be... though with Ubuntu not spinning anymore i386 releases, this looks to be my path forward for keeping these running
<sarnold> 20.04?
<pragmaticenigma> sarnold: correct... there haven't been anymore i386 releases since 18.04
<sarnold> oh god. I've been thinking about 20.04 for so long that it feels like "the most recent lts"
<pragmaticenigma> I only keep these old i386 machines around for break out boxes mostly... the ones I was talking to TJ about can just barely browse the modern web with Firefox
<TJ-> they'd browse my modern web perfectly fine :D
<sarnold> edbrowse works great? :)
<TJ-> simply banning my devs from using Javascript, and no 3rd party assets, works wonders for the perceived performance of our sites
<sarnold> s/perceived//  :)
<TJ-> well, there's still line latency
<sarnold> who needs a million cdns when your page can be served in two requests and 10kb? :)
<sarnold> lookin at you lenovo..
<pragmaticenigma> My pi-hole probably makes a lot of it usable too... blocking the three million trackers and scripts that sites use
<TJ-> but loading 64KB over 256kbps line is still faster than 15MB over 10Mbps :)
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: Is your connection that constricted?
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: as MX uses the Debian 10 kernels, it'd be an interesting test to see if Ubuntu is stable using the Debian kernels
<sarnold> one friend found that another friend's website was using 512kb of JS to turn unix seconds since epoch into "N seconds ago" or "N minutes ago" etc. it was just a handy JS thing he'd found that did the trick..
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: no, but for mobile users with high contention and latency our sites still zip along compared to most others
<TJ-> sarnold: so common ... the baine of 'dev-ops' frontend devs that have no concept of actual technology
<sarnold> TJ-: in this case, he's quite good at technology, he just wanted to solve the problem he found interesting more ;)
<sarnold> he was suitably apalled when he found out what he had done
<TJ-> I recently took my IT apprentice on a 3-day History & Evolution of Computing trip to London, science museum, and Bletchley Park National Museum of Computing where they've got working reconstructions othe WW2 enigma code-breaking earliest analogue and digital computers.
<sarnold> awesome
<TJ-> He was amazed ... I had him write up a report and in it he described the still working, room-sized, WITCH decathon built in 1950 and still running... as this "erection computer" because it turned him on so much :D
<sarnold> hahahaha
<TJ-> Point being, he went from just taking his iPhone for granted to realising what a truly amazing piece of technology modern computers are, and an appreciation of what is inside them
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: I'm not sure where the bug exists... I never really got it nailed down from what you had suggested I try
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: never mind... as long as it works now :)
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: I don't know if swapping kernels from other distros would work or not... way above my skill level
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: it'd indicate if kernel config/modules were to blame. Could be caused by ubuntu SAUCE patches for example, which wouldn't be in Debian kernels (or mainline builds)
<pragmaticenigma> ah, that could make sense
<TJ-> I seem to recall you did test some Ubuntu mainline builds... but then they use the Ubuntu kernel config, which may well be different to Debian
<pragmaticenigma> HWE ?
<TJ-> I finally discovered what causes unexplained lock-ups on my Intel based systems ... turns out to be a long running and worsening set of i915 driver bugs
<pragmaticenigma> like complete system freeze?
<TJ-> HWE probably would carry the same issues since they're just kernels from later Ubuntu releases; Ubuntu mainline builds do not contain any Canonical/Ubuntu SAUCE patches but they still use the same kernel config options (/boot/config-$VERSION)
<TJ-> Intel:  https://linuxreviews.org/Linux_Kernel_5.5_Will_Not_Fix_The_Frequent_Intel_GPU_Hangs_In_Recent_Kernels
<pragmaticenigma> I don't remember setting these units up to mainline anything
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: maybe I misremembered then... long time ago
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: but it's usually the firs thing I suggest
<pragmaticenigma> yeah... All I did was use mini.iso to install with
<pragmaticenigma> I might have been overwhelmed or not comfortable with the idea... don't recall either
<pragmaticenigma> I suppose I could always try adding Ubuntu repos into here and see what fireworks spark
<TJ-> erk no!
<TJ-> recipe for disaster :)
<TJ-> it works - be happy
<pragmaticenigma> it's how one learns... which is what these machines are used for
<pragmaticenigma> "break" out boxes :-P
<TJ-> well OK... if you've got hours/days to spare
<TJ-> !mainline
<ubot5> The kernel team supply continuous mainline kernel builds which can be useful for tracking down issues or testing recent changes in the Linux kernel. More information is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds
<pragmaticenigma> these are such old machines... mostly a novelty now... the screen hinges barely hold the screen steady anymore as I type this on a table
<pragmaticenigma> yes... quite happy
<pragmaticenigma> was thinking this winter of throwing BOINC on one of them and leaving it in the garage as a space heater
<pragmaticenigma> $5 a month added to the electric bill doesn't seem like too much?
<TJ-> I reconditioned some 2007 vintage core-2 duo Asus laptops for the charity. More RAM, SSDs, dual-band wifi mini-pcie cards. Replaced a hinge on one. Now we're 5 identical very usable Xubuntu based lappies for client use
<pragmaticenigma> neat... the hinges on these are integrated into the chassis... not sure I can replace the compression mechanism
<pragmaticenigma> I'd really like to just disable the screens, leave the lid down and figure out how to re-wire the power switch to externally accessable
<TJ-> same here... had to disassemble to replace.
<TJ-> do they have RJ45 ethernet ports?
<TJ-> if so, configure them to use Wake-on-LAN so you can remotely power them up with a magic packet
<pragmaticenigma> the wake on lan might be an option... but these have no battery... loss of power disables WOL until machines is manually booted and shutdown
<TJ-> really? that should be a BIOS config option, usually enabled by default
<pragmaticenigma> yeah... it stays enabled in bios... but for some reason it needs a successful boot to stay active
<TJ-> power save tooling may disable it during runtime
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> good noon to all
<lotuspsychje> Fuseteam: they say cubic is a cool program to tweak ubuntu iso's your own way
<lotuspsychje> just keep in mind, its not a support package on the official ubuntu repos
<lotuspsychje> so external ppa's can be involved, use at your own risk
<Fuseteam> ohw cool
<Fuseteam> i'm actually playing with dwm and looking for a way to get the unity global menu and hud working with it
<Fuseteam> but i also noticed a lot is not working and/or accessible mainly because its an window manager
<Fuseteam> i'll look into cubic
<lotuspsychje> planning to maintain your Own Os?
<lotuspsychje> or just testing around a bit
<Fuseteam> testing around a bit
<Fuseteam> i have no idea what it would mean to maintain my own os, so i have no idea if that's even feasible for me
<lotuspsychje> Fuseteam: once you create your own ubuntu distro, you will need to maintain things yourself too
<Fuseteam> i suppose so, for now i have ubuntu18.04 server installed and installed both unity and dwm
<lotuspsychje> Fuseteam: it all depends what your endgoal is, with all this
<Fuseteam> i guess for now its more getting hud working under dwm, as i miss that
<lotuspsychje> the #dwm channel looks rather empty
<Fuseteam> i mean i intended to unity, but then dwm piqued my interest
<Fuseteam> now i spend more time in there but i still miss unity
<lotuspsychje> unity is still installable from the repos
<Fuseteam> i have it installed yep
<Fuseteam> guess my end goal is to "fuse" them somehow as in getting the functionalities i like of unity to work in dwm
<Fuseteam> i think dwm's channel is #suckless
<ducasse> Fuseteam: have you looked at rofi? i use it with i3 as a 'hud' to run apps. it's easily extensible through scripts
<Fuseteam> the hud and dmenu/rofi are not the same thing ducasse
<Fuseteam> unity hud was a way to access menu items the same way rofi/dmenu works
<Fuseteam> i could use the hud to say open my browser history or my terminal preferrences
<Fuseteam> it remains to this day one of my favorite features
<ducasse> theoretically, you can script rofi to do the same thins
<Fuseteam> i know, i'm looking for a way to extent dmenu/rofi with unity hud
<Fuseteam> the hud is especially usefull with gimp
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-03-01
<ducasse> good morning
<Bashing-om> ducasse: WB :D
<ducasse> thanks Bashing-om - how was your session?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Slow session - no gold stars on the irc status board :(
<ducasse> Bashing-om: too bad, but typical weekend
<Bashing-om> ducasse: More and more - slow - 'buntu just getting too polished :D
<lotuspsychje> good noon
<lotuspsychje> 20.04 has new icons at shutdown corner https://imgur.com/a/IfiVKMo
<pragmaticenigma> sixwheeledbeast: It might be security by obscurity, but it is now considered best practice when enabling remote ssh in a non-commercial setting. If I enable port 22, I get thousands of attempts to login into my machines. Changing the port to a different placement, I see maybe one or two attempts a year currently. So it is effective to change the port. Everything is locked down, so really this just cuts down on the noise
<pragmaticenigma> for me when reviewing the logs.
<sixwheeledbeast> pragmaticenigma: its the internet every port is scanned on a regular basis by shodan and published to the internet. Your just minimising bot traffic it's still obscurity.
<pragmaticenigma> sixwheeledbeast: I make regular look ups of my connection on shodan... as of right now it only shows one port open, and it is not my SSH port.
<pragmaticenigma> Shodan only scans the lower 1000 ports to my knowledge
<sixwheeledbeast> It has never been considered best practice. There are reasons why the first 1024 ports are used for specific applications.
<pragmaticenigma> sixwheeledbeast: And that is fine in a commercial setting... but if a person is running something for their own purposes on their home network, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using a non-standard port
<pragmaticenigma> Note, I have never said there is any less risk involved
<sixwheeledbeast> It's still a pointless exercise IMO. You will be getting incoming traffic to the router on port 22 if it's open or not your just not seeing the logs at the server only at the router if logged.
<pragmaticenigma> sixwheeledbeast: you're not telling me anything I already didn't know. I worked for a internet provider for over 3 years. I'm well aware of everything you have spoken about. My point is, for a personal setup, I recommend not using port 22 as I see no point in tempting the low hanging fruit of script kiddies out there. I'm more than aware that port 22 is constantly getting pinged on my firewall, as much as ports 80, 443,
<pragmaticenigma> 21, 25 and many others.
<pragmaticenigma> My goal in not using port 22 for SSH serves only to reduce the amount of time it takes me to troubleshoot an issue with my connections by not having to sift through thousands of lines of logs of failed attempts to gain entry to my systems
<sixwheeledbeast> I still stand by my point tho, it's not considered standard practice. I would sooner have the logs of IP's to either blacklist of whitelist.
<sixwheeledbeast> well to quote "best practice"
<sixwheeledbeast> s/of/or/
<lotuspsychje> the whole world is constantly port scanned
<sixwheeledbeast> Exactly
<pragmaticenigma> already established that fact, and note... never claimed best practice at large, I associated it with non-commercial situations sixwheeledbeast
<sixwheeledbeast> np
<tomreyn> shodan is not limited to ports 0 to 1023, but scans an arbitrary list of ports they have chosen.
<tomreyn> but then there are competing services, and other internet scanning projects, which produce different results.
<sixwheeledbeast> Its on my list of common FUD I hear, like people saying that placing files/drives in / doesn't follow FHS.
<lotuspsychje> what is?
<sixwheeledbeast> using non-standard ports for services is a standard practice
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-oem-osp1 eoan
<ubot5> Package linux-oem-osp1 does not exist in eoan
<Katnip> nappy
<Fuseteam> Pretty sure its beneficial to use none-standard ports, but i'm curious what the disadvantages would be
<pragmaticenigma> Fuseteam: Non-standard ports becomes a problem typically in a commercial/industrial type application.
<pragmaticenigma> If your a business and wish to provide, SFTP services to your customers. The least amount of friction would be to use the ports that are already reserved for those services. Lowering the chance of mistakes in implementation
<pragmaticenigma> For instance... You can run a web server on any port... But you would have little to no traffic if you didn't make the site available on Ports 80 and/or 443. Google and others are not going to index a site that it can't find.
<pragmaticenigma> And the customers are going to assume the site is broken or down, because they're not going to understand what the numbers after the URL are for, and are likely to skip them
<sixwheeledbeast> Also the first 1024 ports are privileged ports this means your connection to them is protected by admin privileges at the server end.
<pragmaticenigma> I've never heard the referred to as privileged ports before. And calling them protected by admin privileges isn't really correct. The first 1024 are specifically allocated, and typically the server requires a process to have specific system level permission to operate on that port.
<daftykins> i run my OpenVPN server on a non-standard port, it's blocked on some local hotel/restaurant free wifi services :/
<sixwheeledbeast> That's a better way of explaining it, yes.
<Fuseteam> pragmaticenigma hmm thanks for the insight
<sixwheeledbeast> Privileged ports is how w3 refer to them
<sixwheeledbeast> https://www.w3.org/Daemon/User/Installation/PrivilegedPorts.html
<pragmaticenigma> ah, okay... I always thought they were called "reserved ports"
<Fuseteam> how practical would that make running websites and webapps in containers?
<sixwheeledbeast> I suppose they are "reserved" according to IANA and "privileged" to w3 :shrug:
<sixwheeledbeast> There are ports below 1024 that have nothing assigned/reserved to them via IANA so that's where the difference is.
<pragmaticenigma> Fuseteam: perfectly practical, many websites already do this today
<Fuseteam> cool but aren't the containers usually published on non-standard ports? or would it make use of the container ip?
<sixwheeledbeast> i suppose NAT can pick up the pieces too
<pragmaticenigma> I think many containers are run behind a load balancer, which could take things in on the standard port and forward them to the correct resource
<Fuseteam> ah guess that makes sense
<pragmaticenigma> unless I made the container, I wouldn't be putting it on the open web without some sort of intermediary firewall and other infrastructure
<pragmaticenigma> eventhen... firewalls are helpful
