#ubuntu-learning 2009-08-31
<doctormo> How are things BiosElement, pleia2?
<BiosElement> doctormo: Good. Finally got my branch up 3 minutes after you left.
<doctormo> Great
<doctormo> BiosElement: Did you do the merge taask?
<BiosElement> doctormo: To merge into the main branch? Or the Contact file?
<doctormo> BiosElement: The main file with the contact files
<doctormo> the main "branch"
<doctormo> paultag: Hey I was looking for you before
<BiosElement> doctormo, Yeah, I did merge the contact file into my branch.
<doctormo> Great
<doctormo> And commited it
<BiosElement> Correct, it's on launchpad.
<doctormo> BiosElement: great, so lets have a look at what you have
<BiosElement> doctormo, https://code.launchpad.net/~williamchambers/ubuntu-learning-materials/williamchambers
<doctormo> BiosElement: ping
<BiosElement> doctormo, pong
<paultag> doctormo: I've had one hell of a week, and I'll be AFK right now again -- still working away. I'll have something for ya down the line a few
<doctormo> paultag: sounds good
<moks107> Hi guys!
<moks107> did anyone try out the AVG antivirus for linux?
<moks107> coz im having some trouble installing it actually
<moks107> could anybody help me out?
<moks107> coz when i install it
<moks107> it brings me to the rights and regulations and then
<moks107> thats it
#ubuntu-learning 2009-09-01
<doctormo> BiosElement: Morning
#ubuntu-learning 2009-09-02
<doctormo> BiosElement, pleia2, paultag: any of you guys good with Virtualisation and VMs? I've got myself into a bit of a pickle and need to write tomorrow's class, but can't think of what to do.
<paultag> doctormo: I've done some work with them, but bodhi is kick ass with that stuff
<BiosElement> doctormo, The most I've done is run a few OS's for browser testing.
<pleia2> doctormo: yes, but I'm dying of the flu at the moment :(
<paultag> doctormo: Start off with the basics -- chroot, then get into how a chroot is insecure, how implementing a virtual machine can protect the host a great deal
<paultag> doctormo: KVM, VBox etc
<pleia2> virtualbox is a nice, quick way to give people a peek though
<doctormo> pleia2: I hope your ok
<paultag> pleia2: yeah, not the swine flu, I hope
 * doctormo sends pleia2 hugs and water and blankets
<pleia2> doctormo: dr put me on some medicine, so hopefully I'll be in much better shape later this week :)
<doctormo> paultag: See I never even thought about chroot
<pleia2> paultag: nah, luckily not!
<paultag> pleia2: :)
 * doctormo perscribes more hugs
<paultag> doctormo: its a fun way of demonstrating the most basic vm :)
<doctormo> paultag: So the first thing is comming up with a good explaination, then perhaps doing the chroot, then perhaps explaining hardware enabled VMs and then moving onto virtualbox and KVM
<paultag> I think that is a solid approach doctormo
<doctormo> Anything else I should be doing?
<pleia2> kvm requires the hardware thingy
<pleia2> xen does not (but can use it)
<paultag> I think that should cover it for the most part doctormo
<paultag> Oh yeah!
<paultag> Xen hyporvisor, but that is like KVM
<doctormo> My explainination of HwVM is basically that newer processers after the P4 have inbuilt instructions that allow for memory paging, and this allows VMs to be created which have their own seperated memory section that doesn't run through the host os.
<pleia2> ubuntu doesn't have a xen kernel these days, though
<paultag> doctormo: Yup, sounds great
<pleia2> well, *some* newer processors after P4 :)
<doctormo> paultag: Could you point me towards a good chroot guide? I don't do it everyday
<paultag> sure doctormo
<doctormo> You guys are awesome by the way
<paultag> I've always loved this overview of how it works doctormo -- http://unixwiz.net/techtips/chroot-practices.html
<paultag> doctormo: let me get you an 'in practice' guide
<paultag> doctormo: also -- a reason chroot is less secure then a VM ( not to mention memory allocation etc being part of the same kernelspace ) http://www.bpfh.net/simes/computing/chroot-break.html
<paultag> doctormo: This link is a fairly good 'in practice' link -- https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot
<pleia2> vserver is also probably worth mentioning
<pleia2> it's like chroot+
 * doctormo wonders if the new in place kernel upgrading may allow chroot+new_kernel to new ubuntu versions without reboots.
<pleia2> still not as secure as kvm or virtualbox, but a bit better than chroot
<paultag> chroot is basically just a `cd`
<paultag> chroot (8) requires system paths et all, but most apps can run chroot syscall
<doctormo> paultag: Yes, but think about it, you can in place shift the system to a new base line. You'd have to do the same with processes, but it's not impossible to imagen someone coming up with such a thing.
<paultag> yup
<doctormo> Anyway, that's the task for tomorrow, I'm going to rush out the next class and hope to teach it effectivly in the evening.
<paultag> what time doctormo?
<doctormo> paultag: 6:30 at the SETC
<paultag> downtown?
<paultag> doctormo: will it be on IRC as well?
<doctormo> paultag: No, this is the physical class. At some point i'll do videos and such.
<paultag> Ah
<doctormo> And yes, Downtown
<paultag> Too bad I can't make it
<paultag> doctormo: I'd love to be there
<doctormo> paultag: What are you up to?
<paultag> doctormo: Still in Cleveland :)
<doctormo> ah, when do you get here (I feel like I should get you here asap :-P)
<paultag> doctormo: Sure, I'd love to come down. South End, right?
<paultag> doctormo: Can you get there from the T? I hate driving downtown
<doctormo> paultag: From cleveland, probably not.
<doctormo> paultag: Unless I 'm confuised
<paultag> Erm, hum?
<paultag> doctormo: I was talking about when I head home next, I do live in Boston :P
<doctormo> paultag: I feel like I've failed to write this course for tonight :-/ It just doesn't feel good enough
<paultag> doctormo: Would you like me to read thru?
<doctormo> paultag: That would be good
<paultag> doctormo: I'll help in any way I can :)
<doctormo> http://pastebin.com/m33710f7c
<paultag> doctormo: Humm
<doctormo> paultag: Indeed
<paultag> doctormo: It's a concise overview. Not a whole lot about the details of each. If this was me, I would break down what the stack looks like, and where it is
<doctormo> paultag: Aye, if I think I could do that in 40 mins :-P
<doctormo> As I said, I'm not at all happy with this course
<paultag> doctormo: It's just a bit light on the details, I think. I am pretty sure you can include some basics about why it's a "virtual" machine by looking at how it is run inside the kernel
<doctormo> paultag: Which I have no clue about
<paultag> Ahhhh'
<paultag> doctormo: I think you do, but under another name
<doctormo> paultag: Anyway, any reediting you can help me with would be awesome too.
<paultag> Sure
<paultag> Let me add a bit on how memory is allocated, it helps describe how it's virtual :)
<doctormo> ok
<paultag> doctormo: unedited, I have to jet for a second -- but concepts are present -- http://pastebin.com/m272d8245
#ubuntu-learning 2009-09-03
<doctormo> Well class went meh, I managed to get it done. But I wasn't very happy with it.
<doctormo> Hey dinda, I haven't seen you for a while
<dinda> doctormo: the usual busy work happening
<dinda> and some vacation :)
<doctormo> dinda: Congratulations
<doctormo> I'm trying to save for my holiday, I hope the man asks me back to do some more manual labour so I can get a bit more of the flight paid off.
<BiosElement> Figures we lost doctormo just when I wanted to nag him >.>
<moks107> Hi guys!
<moks107> hows things?
<moks107> could i ask you a question
<moks107> how do i install my camera and my mic?
<doctormo> moks107: hello!
<doctormo> sorry for the delay
<doctormo> but this is not the place for support questions
<doctormo> This is a room for the development of course material
<moks107> oh is that so
<moks107> thanks
<doctormo> Have you tried #ubuntu or #ubuntu-signpost to get answers?
<moks107> nope not yet actually
<moks107> but thanks anyways
<Vantrax> hey pleia2, I had a baby girl this week
<pleia2> Vantrax: congrats! :D
<Vantrax> yay me
<doctormo> Congratulations Vantrax (even if missing)
<BiosElement> doctormo, Nice save :P
<doctormo> hey BiosElement hey there
<doctormo_> pleia2: Like my new pxeboot? something you might be interested in for your lab/classroom?
<doctormo> Oh have to head out, let me know later :-)
#ubuntu-learning 2009-09-04
<doctormo> paultag: Hey again
<paultag> heyya doctormo
<paultag> doctormo: did you ever work out that session?
<pleia2> virtualization one?
<paultag> pleia2: doctormo was working on a Visualization session. I gave him a small chunk and I was wondering if he ever presented it. Or finished it
<paultag> Either or, really
<pleia2> http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/09/02/systems-administration-virtualisation/
<paultag> Ah, outstanding
<doctormo> paultag: I did teach it, wasn't a very good lesson to be honest
<paultag> doctormo: Euch. That's always the worst
<doctormo> paultag: If I had the money, I'd personally pay you to finish it for me, but instead my plan is to finish it in the editing process.
<paultag> +1
<paultag> Community driven always comes out great
<doctormo> pleia2: Did you get the question from me about the PXE boot stuff being useful to you?
<pleia2> doctormo: yeah, we've done some things like that with our loco team, but I can't remember exactly what we were using
 * pleia2 has dropped blog link to loco team
<doctormo> pleia2: Would be good to confer
<paultag> doctormo: I just read that post. Bravo. I did something similar for a cluster :)
<pleia2> yeah, I emailed the main guy involved yesterday
<paultag> doctormo: PXE is kickass
<doctormo> paultag: You have know how all over the place, I'm impressed
<pleia2> the lack of support on really old desktop-class machines was an issue (as you say, many hide it, but a lot don't have it at all)
<doctormo> pleia2: We have a FDD PXE booter
<paultag> doctormo: I've been hacking with Linux since I was 13. When you have no focus, you tend to learn a little about a lot.
<pleia2> doctormo: oh, neat
<doctormo> paultag: Sucks to be me, I was stuck with windows until I was 17. I was a master at Visual Basic and Reg editing though :-P
<paultag> doctormo: kickass, I bet you loved perl off the bat :)
<paultag> Oh wait
<doctormo> Of course
<paultag> shit, I read that as Regexp
<paultag> doctormo: GConf, then :)
<doctormo> paultag: Actually I dislike gconf and things like it
<paultag> Really?
<paultag> doctormo: Is it the way it stores data ( XML ), or the concept of a registry?
<doctormo> paultag: I've come to realise that it's important to modualise and use the base destinction effectivly. On POSIX operating systems this is the 'file' and 'directory' memes. Thus configs should be files, data elements should be files, it just should be files.
<doctormo> I'm against hiding files from users, I don't think that it's an effective stratedgy. I'm a big fan of XDG and of hitting developpers over the head until they use it.
<paultag> doctormo: what say you to data that should be maintained encrypted in the conf file, such as an XMPP login, or AIM Login password?
<doctormo> paultag: No passwords should ever be stored in config files, auth details, keys, usernames, passwords and such are not configuration. They should go into the authentication and authorisation sub system
<paultag> Very true. I agree doctormo.
<paultag> doctormo: The only reason I like gconf, is a centralized, normalized data structure with all of your configuration options present
<paultag> ( bonus is it's human readable, and hackable :) )
<doctormo> Anyway, since I believe in the mathamatical proof for configuration data structurisation, I believe it's possible to convert any configuration format to any verified structural data format such as xml, and back again.
<paultag> doctormo: sure, but in practice you would have a lot of special cases handling config files with different syntax
<doctormo> It's not the varifyable nature, the idea of defaults (see XSD default attribute) or structurisation. It's the centralisation that betrays the modualisation of the applications that use it.
<paultag> doctormo: I'd like to see the ~/.* files and folders gone. There should be a central ~/.config/ and normalized configuration structure
<doctormo> paultag: You would very quickly have a situation that encouraged developers not to develop non standard syntaxes and handlers for edge cases.
<doctormo> I agree with ~/.config ~/.cache etc, it's the XDG standard after all.
<paultag> I am not up to par on XDG. Let me look it up, hold one.
<paultag> on*
<doctormo> paultag: But I believe that the verification and base line formatting of these configurations should be held and managed by the deb package. Not by gconf.
<paultag> OK.
<paultag> This looks sane, and thought out
<paultag> I'll have to think it over for a bit doctormo
<paultag> doctormo: not sure where I stand
<pleia2> doctormo: ah ok, we do the boot floppy thing for PXE-less machines too
<doctormo> pleia2: See, nothing too different :-D
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> pleia2: Is your guy in the know online?
<pleia2> doctormo: jedijf in #ubuntu-us-pa is one of them, he's at work though so his availability is limited
<doctormo> paultag: My other problem with GConf is that you can't really use it on servers or gtk-less deployments, making it quite crap for the kind of infrastructural projects that should be replacing most kinds of data organisation in the coming years.
<paultag> doctormo: Yeah. I
<paultag> doctormo: Yeah. I'll have to think about what I find logical. Never spent much time on it, I'd rather make an intelligent comment later, rather then a dumb one now
<doctormo> paultag: Of course, I'm just blabbing because I'm tired
<pleia2> yeah, we bumped into that at work where we deployed a dozen or so ubuntu machines, it was annoying
<paultag> doctormo: no no, I appreciate it
<pleia2> had to do sneaky work-arounds for things to avoid using gconf so we could deploy flat txt configs
<doctormo> pleia2: It's bloody annoying because it should be a simple mattter of fashioning a set of base libraries for accessing standard xml forms and validating them.
<doctormo> Plus it's the reason my wallchanger project didn't work for the entire intrepid release, it proper way to update the gnome wallpaper is via gconf, but that requires access to XAuthentication and that got blocked from the crontab after intrepid.
<doctormo> So now I have to use a symbolic link and ask the user to select the right background manually.
<paultag> Ah, I did the same doctormo, but mine was local userspace
<paultag> doctormo: and it was in the autostart for after you start your session
<paultag> doctormo: I had a set of 12 photos I took of outside -- all throughout the day. Each hour, it would swap to the one for the current hour
<paultag> Alright. I'm off -- Class for the day. See ya'll in a few hours
<doctormo> paultag: Have a good day
<paultag> Ah. I love college.
<paultag> Day's over. Kickass.
<pjarnahom> how to configure cannon gp210 pcl 5e printer in ubuntu ultimate
<paultag> pjarnahom: Don't spam.
<pleia2> pjarnahom: might want to try #ubuntu :)
#ubuntu-learning 2010-09-10
<hakermania> Hello guys, can anyone tell me what is the name of the remove-script in a deb package and where do I place it ?(I hope the name to be postrm and place it in the DEBIAN folder)
<Tempus_Fugit> hello all
