#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-11-22
<ScottL> TheMuso, persia:  i am running update again and it appears to be working
<TheMuso> ok great.
<ScottL> TheMuso,  update completed, ran debuild, received a few lintian warnings, and fixed all but one
<TheMuso> Ok cool.
<ScottL> it was complaining about the misc depends for the ubuntustudio-audio package, which will be a transitional package
<ScottL> persia said to remove the ${misc:depends}....should i put it back or ignore the lintian warning?
<ScottL> TheMuso, ^^^
<TheMuso> Hrm lmms hasn't been looked at.
<TheMuso> Its a warning for a reason. :)
<TheMuso> Leave it out.
<persia> Lintian could probably use a patch to detect transitional dummy packages, but that would require a real resolution to the debate over their format (which hasn't been active in a while, but was last given up with a consensus that if the tools handled it, it was probably correct)
<ScottL> TheMuso, quadrispro said he knew what the problem was on lmms and was taking care of it
<ScottL> also i haven't received an email about uninstallable binary on it for a couple of days
<ScottL> TheMuso, persia: i will leave the miscellaneous, depends out then (which is what i would thinking), thank you
<ScottL> i'll should have the debdiff this evening then (about +18 hours hence)
<scott-work> TheMuso: rereading the scrollback (well, logs actually) i might not have explanined the misc depends clearly
<scott-work> TheMuso: lintian was telling me that the package did NOT have a misc depends
<quadrispro> going to have a shower, persia: thank you very much!
<quadrispro> see you later guys
<persia> quadrispro, It's not me: you earned it.
<scott-work> bye quadrispro  :)
<scott-work> did quadrispro garner an accolade?
<scott-work> persia: severla days ago i was speaking with quadrispro about lashd and jack session
<scott-work> he informed me that development for lashd has stopped, which i felt was unfortunate as we are now just including it in the image
<scott-work> however, he did say that despite lack of development, it apparently is well developed so we should see use from it for a while
<scott-work> but i expect that means that jack session will be the viable path in the future
<persia> I think we should use what works today, even if it's not exciting upstream, and adopt the new upstream model once it's mature.
<falktx> scott-work: what about ladish ?
<scott-work> falktx: i don't know that much about ladish at the moment
<falktx> afaik, it's not in debian yet
<scott-work> i also note that the build log for the daily still inlcudes phonon, kdebase-runtime and other kde packages :(
<falktx> eheh
<falktx> scott-work: i suppose it's Qt
<scott-work> i remember looking at qjackctl's depencies and thinking it wouldn't pull so much in but i certainly could be wrong
<scott-work> it does look like one place it is bringin in phonon is from the audio-common seeds
<scott-work> ugh, it also appears like it may be in the video seed as well
<scott-work> although the build logs appear to contain fewer kde packages
<falktx> scott-work: someone has to install it and check
<scott-work> falktx: i have a previous natty install (from approximately a week ago) that i can check a few things
<scott-work> i used rdpeneds to try and check some of the kde stuff but so much as installed it became unintelligible (literally in the case where i tried to generate a map with graphviz and dot)
<scott-work> s/as installed/was installed
<scott-work> obviously someone should port qjackctl to gtk
 * scott-work is kidding
<falktx> hehe
<falktx> scott-work: i'm still working on the US live-dvd thing
<falktx> internet is still slow
<falktx> ubuntustudio sure has a lot of software....
<falktx> scott-work: some packages are way big and not really needed (lilypond-doc has 150mb), why not removing it ?
<scott-work> falktx:  i would like to reduce the size of the image
<quadrispro> falktx, does festige depend on something related to VST?
<quadrispro> does it need to build against any VST-related stuff?
<falktx> quadrispro: no
<quadrispro> falktx, please give me the URL
<falktx> quadrispro: it needs a header file, but it uses a free one from LMMS
<falktx> festige.sf.net
<quadrispro> ScottL, I've become core-dev (hi!)
<falktx> quadrispro: i havent updated the webpage yet, but the sourceforge release file should be 0.9.2
<quadrispro> falktx, I took a look somedays ago, now I don't remeber what the problem was
<quadrispro> yep, going to download the file
<falktx> i'll give you the final link
<falktx> quadrispro: http://sourceforge.net/projects/festige/files/0.9.2/festige-0.9.2.tar.gz/download
<quadrispro> falktx, I'm on it, does it need fst?
<falktx> quadrispro: no, it has one built-in
<falktx> (patched for ladish support)
<falktx> quadrispro: the source package already has a debian folder :)
<quadrispro> falktx, fst was available in Debian -> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=402945
<falktx> nice
<falktx> "was" ?
<falktx> quadrispro: ha, i know about that
<falktx> quadrispro: please note on the webpage, http://www.joebutton.co.uk/fst/ :
<falktx> 29 Jan 2009 - Development now continues in git. The VST headers are not required anymore. execute git clone "git://repo.or.cz/fst.git" to get it.
<falktx> VST headers are not required
<falktx> quadrispro: that was the only issue afaik
<quadrispro> bingo
<quadrispro> well, I'm going to make the 'fst' package first
<falktx> ok
<falktx> make sure you get git code
<quadrispro> why?
<quadrispro> falktx, did you get your alioth account?
<falktx> quadrispro: for fst, make sure you get git code, cause it's the one that doesnt need VST header
<falktx> quadrispro: i think so...
<quadrispro> falktx, where fst's git branch is?
<falktx> quadrispro: http://repo.or.cz/w/fst.git
<scott-work> quadrispro: congratulations on core-dev!   that is super cool :)
<quadrispro> thank you scott-work !
<quadrispro> falktx, off... they don't provide an homepage, I see...
<quadrispro> one is http://www.joebutton.co.uk/fst/ but seems not up-to-date
<quadrispro> falktx, I need some time to fix a wrong upload of faad2, would you mind to get in touch with upstream in order to get more information about the current status, their plans for the future, etc etc?
<falktx> quadrispro: sure
<falktx> no prob
<quadrispro> falktx, feel free to CC me
<falktx> time to go
<falktx> bye
<scott-work> in digging through the daily build log, the number of kde pacakges is greatly reduced, perhaps 1/2 remain
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-11-23
<ScottL> TheMuso, persia :  i created a bug report about updating the ubuntustudio-meta package for natty
<ScottL> bug# 680317
<ScottL> bug #680317
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 680317 in Ubuntu Studio "[natty] update ubuntustudio-meta package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/680317
<ScottL> attached is the debdiff and i subscribed both of you just in case
<ScottL> astraljava, how is the backporting project progressing?
<ScottL> astraljava, would you also like to help update ubuntustudio-menu when ubuntustudio-meta is updated and new ISO's are built?
<ScottL> also, i hope to start on the art and plymouth theme next week
<ScottL> i have a nice plymouth theme that cory almost completed, however...
<ScottL> does anyone have any suggestions for new GDM wallpaper or desktop wallpaper?
<astraljava> ScottL: I have some difficulties with the machine at home, the one which I use for ubuntustudio installs. I plan on doing new installs on separate drives, one for maverick and another for lucid.
<astraljava> ScottL: So that I can then compare all bits and pieces between the releases, and plan better for backports. But so far, no progress due to machine hick-ups.
<astraljava> ScottL: Yes, I am willing to help with the menu. Got any pointers?
<abogani> quadrispro: Congratulations!
<quadrispro> abogani, thank you :)
<astraljava> quadrispro: Conga-rats! :D
<quadrispro> thanks astraljava !
<quadrispro> ScottL, working to provide new rosegarden release
<quadrispro> hi all
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-11-24
<TheMuso> quadrispro: Congrats, and I am sorry I didn't get around to commenting on your applicatino, it slipped my mind, as I am busy with very non-audio related tasks atm.
<TheMuso> application
<quadrispro> TheMuso, no worries, and thanks! :)
<quadrispro> bye TheMuso, see you soon
<quadrispro> bye all
<scott-work> holstein: are you up?
<scott-work> i believe the time you set for the website meeting may not be the time you thought  http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=12&day=1&year=2010&hour=13&min=0&sec=0&p1=0
<scott-work> either way, i would really like to accomodate eric so that he can attend
<holstein> scott-work: ping
<scott-work> hi holstein :)
<holstein> maybe i borked the time
<holstein> i checked like 5 times though
<scott-work> lol, but maybe *I* borked the time too
<holstein> i dont mind to move it to wednesday at 8 for me
<holstein> 7 for you
<scott-work> 7 in the morning ?
<scott-work> holstein:  i can do early morning meetings on most days, but is that what you intended?
<holstein> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=12&day=1&year=2010&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p1=179
<scott-work> when you asked about 5 before i thought you meant 5pm :P
<holstein> scott-work: i did
<holstein> but i changed it
<holstein> to later 
<holstein> before i sent the mail
<holstein> i'll probably move it to wednesday
<holstein> (for us)
<holstein> so eric can make it
<holstein> i wanted to give it a little time
<holstein> i dont want to move it again
<scott-work> i'm good with that time, do you think this will work for eric?
<holstein> i think thats what he said in the email
<holstein> assuming i got the time right
<holstein> he said 24 hours later would do it
<holstein> i'll do that fixed time link :)
<holstein> alright... BBL
<scott-work> holstein: would you like to email eric directly to ask him?
<scott-work> i have his email address if you do
<rexbron> TheMuso: The way we package ardour makes it far too difficult to debug crashes...
<rexbron> hmm
<rexbron> well not really
<scott-work> it's possible that ardour might even get more difficult to package
<scott-work> i read about them possibly going to a binary release
<scott-work> In the future, we may offer binary releases of Ardour directly from ardour.org. These will be distribution neutral, in the same way that Firefox and Thunderbird are. At the present time, we are relying on the excellent work done by the package maintainers for various distributions. 
<TheMuso> scott-work: That is HELL for security.
<TheMuso> I don't like the way they are moving with ardour distributino.
<scott-work> TheMuso: lol, i thought i had done something wrong at first ;)
<TheMuso> heh
<ScottL> cjwatson has updated the task list for the updates to the seeds :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-11-25
<falktx> hi there
<falktx> i'm looking for something specific
<falktx> the contents of the UbuntuStudio iso, for download
<falktx> the isolinux/splash.png to be precise
<falktx> where can i find it?
<falktx> never mind, find them now
<falktx> *found
<falktx> hehe, UbuntuStudio 10.04.1 + KXStudio resources 32bit ISO is now ready!
<falktx> i'll upload it saturday
<quadrispro> falktx, I'm very busy now but... Have you ping'd fst's upstream?
<quadrispro> (hi all!)
<falktx> ping? i didnt do anything
 * falktx is not guilty
<quadrispro> falktx, sorry I have to leave, see you later
<falktx> cya
<quadrispro> falktx, I am on phone now :) I'll be back soon
<falktx> k
<ScottL> falktx, hey, have you used...
<falktx> hi ScottL
<falktx> ScottL: used what?
<ScottL> it's a bass.lv2 and death-something.lv2 plugin, they are in kxstudio
<ScottL> i'm trying to find the names righ tnow
<falktx> hm...
<falktx> omnifono
<falktx> and...
<falktx> deathcrush ?
<ScottL> psycho-bass or vdeathcrush lv2 plugins
<falktx> from a strange sourceforce page
<ScottL> that's them
<falktx> ah
<falktx> psychobass was a student's project somewhere
<falktx> the code remained in some SVN repo
<ScottL> have you used them?
<ScottL> how do they sound?
<falktx> not really
<ScottL> by the way, i have to leave in like 30 secs for thanksgiving at in-laws
<ScottL> okay, thanks
<falktx> ok
<ScottL> i'll try them out sometime in the coming months
<falktx> cya
<falktx> ScottL: they are in the US live-dvd
<falktx> (all the plugins I compiled so far)
<falktx> you should have a look at it later, once I upload it...
<ScottL> falktx, i defintely will
<falktx> ;)
<quadrispro> ehya guys
<quadrispro> falktx
<quadrispro> nooo :(
<ScottL> quadrispro, how are you doing?
<quadrispro> ScottL, ehy! tired but fine, and you?
<ScottL> quadrispro, doing okay, got back from in-laws for thanksgiving earlier
<ScottL> ate too much of course, but man, it was good
<quadrispro> ehhh I can imagine :)
<ScottL> gearing up also to begin backporting some applications to lucid  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Backports
<ScottL> astraljava and i were going to work on this
<ScottL> but i wouldn't want to exclude you though :)
<quadrispro> ScottL, well, it had better speak about something else: I'm on a diet :)
<ScottL> but please don't feel obligated to work on it because i'm pretty sure you have enough other stuff going on
<quadrispro> ScottL, having a look right now
<ScottL> i don't think we need to backport ALL of them, but i took a swipe through the list and wrote down my findings
<ScottL> to be honest, there were also ones that i excluded because i didn't think people use them too much
 * quadrispro tired
<quadrispro> bye guys, see you tomorrow
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-11-26
<rlameiro> happy thanks giving US natives :D
<rlameiro> ScottL: is there a natty usable build already?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-11-28
<holstein> paultag: let me know if you have a minute for a query 
<paultag> holstein, yo
<ScottL> rlameiro, there is a build available, if persia or TheMuso looked at the debdiff for the -meta package update then it will be complete
<ScottL> sorry it took me some time to answer, the wife and i took a few days off and went to the coast
<rlameiro> ScottL: no problem :D thanks
<rlameiro> how was your holidays?
<rlameiro> is the family ok?
<ScottL> oh, everything is well, thank you...how are you and your family?
<ScottL> rlameiro, ^^^
<rlameiro> we are ok :D
<ScottL> my wife and i left the kids at my in-laws for a couple of days and she and i celebrated the end of her school and enjoyed a little "get away" time together :)
<ScottL> it was sweet
<rlameiro> ScottL: that is awesome :D real holidays :D
<rlameiro> please congratulate her for her feat 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-11-21
<knome> ScottL, you around?
<knome> apparently not. what a waste of freenode server bandwidth
<knome> ;)
<ScottL> knome, i'm here, but eating dinner, i'll be back in 5-10 minutes
<knome> okay
<ScottL> knome, i'm back
<knome> okay
<knome> i could work a bit with the website
<ScottL> oh, good :)
<knome> can you point me to the things that is maybe blocking or irritating you the most at the moment?
<ScottL> two large points about the front page
<ScottL> 1. links in the nav bar to other pages being completed/updated
<knome> you can add those yourself, but you can also tell me where to link
<knome> or, you should be able..
<ScottL> 2. getting the "download" and "feature tour" buttons on the right side of the "slide show" text area
<ScottL> knome, i thought i looked at adding the pages but i was unsure how the make the new pages
<ScottL> like the contributor's blog page
<knome> if you look at the "audio" tab, there is artwork in the right side
<knome> should that be removed?
<knome> i mean, if you have the download links there, they would interfere
<knome> or should we only change the front front page to have the links there?
<ScottL> i wouldn't remove the artwork, but can we just stop the artwork before the right side of the page?
<knome> eg. keep the rest of the pages intact, but edit the frontpage tab
<ScottL> just enough to fit the buttons
<ScottL> hmmmm
<knome> i doubt it'd look good if you hide it any more
<ScottL> "hide it anymore"  i'm not sure i understand
<knome> i mean
<ScottL> oh, you mean the download link
<knome> well i'm suggesting that we do what you proposed in the wiki for the frontpage
<knome> but keep the rest of the tabs intact
<knome> with space on the right side
<ScottL> oh, that sounds good then :)
<knome> does that sound sensible?
<knome> okay, good
<ScottL> i think in the spec that i even included a "download" link in the navbar as well
<ScottL> to avoid "hiding" the link (even though there is a big button there)
<ScottL> the buttons are an attempt to address two of the three main use cases 
<knome> isn't there a download link in the navbar now? ;)
<ScottL> 1. people just wanting to download the latest iso
<ScottL> 2. people unfamiliar with ubuntu studio/linux to learn
<knome> so what's the thing with developer blogs?
<ScottL> 3. experienced users who want to contribute to ubuntu studio
<knome> is it just a different category in the blog, or is it aggregated?
<ScottL> knome, i see that the "blog" is a point of confusion for multiple people ;)
<ScottL> not aggregated
<knome> okay
<ScottL> and not "news" which is more formalized and for announcements
<knome> right
<knome> so "news" and "dev blog" should just show different categories from the blog?
<ScottL> the "blog" would be highly informal, and be musings on current development by various people
<knome> yeah, but technically speaking
<knome> http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/category/development/ <- this should be "blog" ?
<knome> http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/category/release-notes/ <- and this "news" ?
<ScottL> knome, i'm unfamiliar with some of the nuances in wordpress (and drupal for that matter)
<ScottL> i had originally thought about having the blogs and news all together in a single page but don't think that is a good idea
<knome> let me try to rephrase it in a non-technical as-possible matter
<ScottL> as some might not really want the rss feed from the blog
<ScottL> so i was thinking that two separate pages which solely show their own content
<knome> the "News" page should show all articles in the "News" category
<ScottL> aye
<knome> and the "Designer blog" from "Blog" category
<ScottL> aye
<knome> okay
<ScottL> does that make it simpler?
<knome> a bit harder than current way, but it is still relatively trivial
<knome> we need to do some hardcoding with that though
<ScottL> how does the current way implement this?
<ScottL> all in a single page?
<knome> it just shows the "article front page"
<knome> yeah
<knome> we're going to mix news and blog in the xubuntu site
<knome> see: http://wp.xubuntu.org/
<knome> "Latest news" is really just "Latest articles"
<knome> you can still subscribe to news-only rss
<knome> but in the xubuntu site, that's hidden by default (at least for now)
<ScottL> stochastci wanted a less "wall of text" resulting from news on the front page and i agreed after i thought about it
<knome> but that's easy to link to
<ScottL> it begets a much more simpler and perhaps zen-like front page
<ScottL> very accessible
<knome> the front page does not have articles from news right now
<knome> only the front page content
<knome> can we go through the links you want in the main navi one by one?
<ScottL> sure
<knome> i can create/fix them as we speak
<ScottL> let me pull up the spec
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/update-website-spec
<knome> there you go
<ScottL> hehe, you bet me
<ScottL> beat
<knome> well i had that open...
<ScottL> home, news, (contributor's) blog, download, tutorials (aka wiki), support, contribute (to development), feedback 
<ScottL> i think that is pretty comprehensive, but please ignore the words inside the parenthesis
<knome> mm
<knome> where should feedback link to?
<ScottL> is there a feedback form that can be used?
<ScottL> so it emails the -dev mailing list
<knome> humm
<ScottL> great way for people to suggest changes or new packages to consider
<knome> one should create such, but i'm not sure if it's a good thing to enable a webform that sends directly to ML
<ScottL> do you have a suggestion on how we might provide a vector for users to make suggestions?
<knome> i'd say tell the users on the support page that you can give suggestions too
<knome> maybe the pagename could be "Support and Feedback"
<ScottL> good idea
<ScottL> we can "divide" the page vertically and the bottom for feedback
<knome> okay, the menu should be okay now
<knome> can you check that?
<ScottL> cool, i'll check now
<knome> (note that the news/blog links won't work as expected yet)
<ScottL> is it accessible to change the "designer blog" to simply "blog" ?
<knome> sure
<knome> done
<ScottL> this is a hard thing to tackle, the naming of it
<knome> you can always change it later
<ScottL> we're really not developers (i had thought first to call it developer blog)
<knome> team blog
<ScottL> hmmm, or development blog
<knome> or contributor blog
<ScottL> i'll think more on it and i think i can change it from what i know and have seen
<knome> or just blog
<knome> ;]
<ScottL> probably just go with blog, leave it a mystery that draws readers into looking at the page to understand why it differs from news
<ScottL> ;)
<knome> so what's with the idea to put the logo in the navbar?
<knome> won't fit with the current nav items...
<ScottL> disregard that please
<knome> hehe, sure :)
<ScottL> that was when i was compulsive about minimizing vertical space
<knome> so, the article styling
<knome> so you want to go with the style in the spec?
<ScottL> for the news/blog page?
<knome> yeah
<ScottL> oh, i don't care really, i just made that based off of another blog, i think default is probably just fine
<knome> okay
<knome> i'll make the metadata a bit more colorful
<knome> did you want excerpts for the "many posts" pages? (like the news-page)
<ScottL> knome, i just want to thank you again for the work you are doing, it's just bloody amazing :-)
<knome> no problem ;)
<ScottL> what is the "many posts" page?
<knome> click news
<knome> any page that shows more than one post per page
<ScottL> is this where it makes the posts two or three lines link and then says "click here for more"?
<knome> yes, do you want that?
<ScottL> s/link/long
<ScottL> sure
<knome> omay
<knome> err, *okay
<knome> should "News" or "Blog" be the default category when posting?
<ScottL> i think so
<knome> "news or blog" -> "yes" :?
<ScottL> yes
<knome> it's either news or blog, it can't be "yes" ? :D
<ScottL> sorry, i misunderstood the question
<knome> hehe
<knome> np...
<ScottL> probably news
<knome> okay
<ScottL> how difficult will it be to create the "feature tour" pages using documents and text?
<ScottL> can images be placed pretty freely in the page?
<knome> yeah
<ScottL> oh cool :)
<knome> with wordpress, you can align to left/right/center by default
<ScottL> that will make it much easier to develop these
<knome> there should be initial styles for those already too
<knome> heh, yeah
<knome> http://wp.xubuntu.org/about/
<knome> that's right-aligned :)
<ScottL> i see :)
<ScottL> i remember seeing something on planet ubuntu where some guy made something like five pages as a feature tour for kubuntu
<ScottL> i thought it looks brilliant!  with images that faded out next to the text
<ScottL> alternating image positioning    left, then right, then left
<knome> mm-hmm
<ScottL> the text weaving through it
<ScottL> it looked really good
<ScottL> i could never find that post or those pages again :(
<knome> aweh
<ScottL> now i email myself links to anything that i think might help with styling
<ScottL> i have a label (folder) in my gmail account for artwork stuff
<ScottL> i'll be back in about five minutes
<knome> sure
<knome> okay, the news/blog links work now as wanted
<knome> they will show any articles in those categories, or any subcategories
<knome> see Posts -> Categories in admin
<knome> i already moved "known issues" and "release notes" under "news"
<knome> you can even create a subcategory in "blog" for every contributor
<knome> then it's easy to track them separately if wanted
<ScottL> cool, i'll look at it in a minute, working with son right now
<ScottL> knome, oh, good idea for the "blog" subcategories :)
<ScottL> oh, the question you had about the buttons on the right side of the "slide show" about just on the front page but not the other pages
<ScottL> i think i understand it now
<ScottL> you were asking if the buttons were to be hidden on all the slide show pages, weren't you knome ?
<ScottL> except the first page
<knome> yes
<knome> if you want to show them on all pages, that's not a problem either, but then i'd say we will have to drop the artwork from the background completely
<ScottL> oh :(
<knome> well, it's just conflicting too much
<ScottL> it would be nice if we could parse the right side of that "slide show" just like the section below it
<ScottL> and not have the artwork cross over to the right side section
<knome> what do you mean by parsing? :)
<knome> right...
<knome> there is still the problem
<knome> the artwork will interfere with the text on the left side then
<ScottL> ah, i see, you faded the image on the right
<ScottL> err, left
<knome> yes
<ScottL> hmmm, let me think about this a bit, i'll try to have an answer in a few days
<knome> no problem
<knome> is there something else you'd like me to work on now? :)
<ScottL> can you start the "feature tour" page and make a link to them
<ScottL> even if it isn't the "right" link for now, can be in the nav bar if that is easiest
<knome> in the frontpage?
<ScottL> sure
<knome> something like this?
<ScottL> and it might be best if you were to make five pages and just left me navigate to them and change the content if it isn't too much trouble
<ScottL> that link works just fine :)
<knome> hmm.
<knome> will you have specific topics for each of the pages?
<knome> i'd suggest creating /tour for the frontpage of tour
<knome> then
<knome> pages /tour/applications etc. as subpages, which you could link as "next" pages
<ScottL> the idea was to use the front page slide show to show use cases with topical information
<ScottL> then use the tour to really get technical for those use cases
<knome> right
<knome> so should the link to tour be different for each tab?
<ScottL> mention "unlimited tracks for ardour" and "200+ plugins" and "jackd is hyper-lowlatency" blah
<ScottL> no, i don't think so
<knome> okay
<ScottL> ultimately i just want a single button to start the tour
<knome> yeah
<knome> do you think the subpages idea would work?
<knome> as said, you can make the pages look like you were scrolling through a single tour with many pages
<ScottL> how is the "subpages" different from other pages?
<ScottL> is that like the "slide show" on the front page
<knome> no
<knome> it's semantically correct, it affects the urls
<knome> like
<knome> http://us.org/tour/movies
<knome> rather than
<knome> http://us.org/tour-movies
<ScottL> oh, yeah, i like that a lot :)
<ScottL> yes, please
<knome> done
<ScottL> is it easy to create the buttons like the "download" button?  do you think i can do it on the download page itself for direct links to latest image by copying what is on the front page?
<knome> you just copy the markup
<knome> i could create a simple shortcode
<ScottL> outstanding
<knome> which would be easier to use
<ScottL> i think i can copy the markup easily
<knome> eg. [linkbutton url=http://url/ title=Title]
<knome> that would also make maintenance easier
<ScottL> it's okay, i can copy the markup, my concern was that it would be accessible
<knome> it will
<ScottL> either way is fine, if there are advantages to shortcode then that is good too
<knome> yeah, maintenance
<knome> eg. if you suddenly want to change the style
<ScottL> which ever is easiest for you or better for the site
<knome> i can create the shortcode
<knome> just a sec
<ScottL> as long as the code is on the front page and i can get to it then i can use whatever you provide
<knome> yup
<knome> don't worry, i'm an expert ;)
<ScottL> i don't want you to hash through making the buttons on the download page because it will be tedious and i will need to play with the layout design of the page to put things in the "right" place to be friendly and easy
<knome> yeah. that's another reason why it's easy to use the shortcode
<knome> it's cleaner markup too
<ScottL> wife and daughter are getting over being sick and now i'm starting to feel bad :(
<knome> :/
<ScottL> i've felt it coming on since this morning
<ScottL> helping son again for fifteen minutes or so
<knome> yup
<knome> i'll hack the shortcode
<knome> ok, the shortcode is set
<knome> usage:
<knome> [lb url="tour/"]Link title[/lb]
<knome> i need to go to bed
<knome> see you tomorrow
<ScottL> thank you very much :)
<len_> ran rteval for 3 runs, sent results to email listed earlier. It appears it likes a little more memory than I have.
<len_> I did try booting to runlevel 1 or recovery, but then I got other errors.
<len_> I have 1G and it seems even with just lightdm running there is less than half left.
<l33> hi
<scott-work>  hi l33 
<l33> hi scott-work :)
<scott-upstairs> micahg, i am working on removing 'dssi-vst' from ubuntustudio seeds
<scott-upstairs> i have removed dssi-vst from the audio-plugins seed
<micahg> scott-upstairs: I saw your bug :)
<scott-upstairs> should i just commit to bzr and stop
<micahg> scott-upstairs: I can do a meta upload for you later in the week
<scott-upstairs> micahg, okay, i had instructions from persia to do more:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#Update_ubuntustudio-meta
<micahg> scott-upstairs: yeah, you can mention the bug in the bzr commit so that the branch is linked, then set to fix committed
<scott-upstairs> this are older instructions for when i had originally worked on the seeds, but these were specific to getting the -meta updated
<scott-upstairs> but i can certainly stop here and mention the bug
<scott-upstairs> micahg, you want i should subscribe ubuntu-sponsor?
<micahg> unless you need it sooner than sometime before alpha 1, no need, I can take care of it for you
<micahg> wait, unless there's another one already there in which case, it would make sense to get this one on the same list
<scott-upstairs> micahg, this may be preventing an installable image for amd64, isn't it?
<micahg> yeah, probably, go ahead an add sponsors and I'll try to grab it if I have time
<scott-upstairs> will do, thank you
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-11-22
<ScottL> for those who are interested, there appeared to be a bug in abogani 's lowlatency kernel for amd64 on oneiric
<ScottL> where the headers could not be installed
<ScottL> but it appears to have been fixed now :)
<l33> hey
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-11-23
<saidinesh5> falktx: up already?
<falktx> saidinesh5: it's 2am
<saidinesh5> Ah my bad
<saidinesh5> lol
<saidinesh5>  i still keep forgetting the timezones
 * abogani waves all
<abogani> ScottL: ping
<abogani> ScottL: FYI I switched to Precise kernel (3.2) for the lowlatency kernel. I provide that version for Precise and Oneiric through my "Lowlatency kernels" PPA. The old version (3.0) for Oneiric and Natty won't be updated and are provided through my "Old lowlatency kernels" PPA.
<abogani> ScottL: The git trees (for both new and old version) lives on the usual place (kernel.ubuntu.com/git).
<ScottL> abogani, fantastic!  thank you :)
<holstein> who has used the rteval script?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-11-24
<ailo> holstein, I think, me, ScottL and a third guy
<len> ailo: I sent in a few runs too. 1 Gig memory seems a bit small, but that is all I have on either machine.
<len> It might be helpful for someone with 2Gigs to run it on their machine.
<ScottL> ailo and len, i updated https://wiki.edubuntu.org/SteveConklin/rteval
<ScottL> steve has asked that we also test this at the console to see if cgroups will affect the results
<ScottL> hi falktx_ 
<falktx_> hey
<falktx> hmm
<len> One of my three runs was in the console. But lightdm would have been running.
<len> I did try booting to RL1, but when I tried to run rteval it could not make a new directory. So it quit. I haven't looked at it since.
<len> Not enough time.
<len> ScottL: Just loaded todays iso. Problem with synaptic asking for root password instead of user password still there.
<len> Edited ubuntustudio.preseed in preseed dir on iso and reinstalled. user password now works.
<len> Sorry the file is ubuntustudio.seed. The last line is used to add groups to the default user setup. I just added the admin group to the end of that line.
<len> When I reinstalled things worked as they should. Is there a specific place for bugs and fixes? or is this an ok place to put them?
<len> Other comments... This extra panel at the bottom of the screen is kindda nice on a big screen, but really shrinks usable space on a netbook. The Xubuntu one that drops out when not in use doesn't use up that space, but interferes with the mouse when trying to do things near to the bottom of the screen... maybe not a good solution.
<len> Second I find US a bit lean on "normal" applications... Loading the Xubuntu meta on top seems to be just enough.
<len> I understnad not wanting to make the iso too big so maybe just a link to add it later.
<holstein> abogani: i have a question/statement about the *-lowlatency kernel
<holstein> seems that it wont get past that message about the broadcom firmware
<holstein> the warming message
<holstein> warning*
<holstein> with lowlatency... this box would not boot
<holstein> i installed the blob, and all is well
<abogani> holstein: Sorry I don't have idea.  How did you installed that blob? Can you get kernel text output when that system doesn't boot?
<abogani> ScottL: Could you ask to every lowlatency kernel tester to provide use their 'sudo /etc/init.d/rtirq status' output, please?
<abogani> s/use/us/
<kubotu> abogani meant: "ScottL: Could you ask to every lowlatency kernel tester to provide us their 'sudo /etc/init.d/rtirq status' output, please?"
<ailo_> abogani, 
<ailo_>   PID CLS RTPRIO  NI PRI %CPU STAT COMMAND	
<ailo_>     3 TS       -   0  19  0.0 S    ksoftirqd/0	
<ailo_>     9 TS       -   0  19  0.0 S    ksoftirqd/1	
<abogani> ailo_: Really?
<ailo_> abogani, This is my own lowlatency build. Should I test with other kernels as well?
<abogani> ailo_: No but rtirq doesn't work for you.
<abogani> ailo_: Do you have installed it?
<ailo_> abogani, Yes
<abogani> ailo_: This is very odd.
<abogani> ailo_: If it isn't too much disturb could you retry with my packaged version?
<ailo_> abogani, sure. 3.0.0-13 then, on Oneiric
<abogani> ailo_: Or newer.
<abogani> 3.2 I meant
<ailo_> abogani, Ok. Installing now.
<abogani> ailo_: Thanks
<ailo> abogani, 
<ailo>   PID CLS RTPRIO  NI PRI %CPU STAT COMMAND	
<ailo>    64 FF      90   - 130  0.0 S    irq/8-rtc0	
<ailo>   886 FF      85   - 125  0.0 S    irq/45-snd_hda_	
<ailo>    43 FF      84   - 124  0.7 S    irq/19-ata_piix	
<ailo>    47 FF      83   - 123  0.0 S    irq/19-ata_piix	
<ailo>   863 FF      81   - 121  0.0 S    irq/19-snd_ice1	
<ailo>    54 FF      80   - 120  0.0 S    irq/18-ehci_hcd	
<ailo>    56 FF      80   - 120  0.0 S    irq/16-uhci_hcd	
<ailo>    55 FF      79   - 119  0.0 S    irq/23-ehci_hcd	
<ailo>    60 FF      79   - 119  0.0 S    irq/18-uhci_hcd	
<ailo>    59 FF      78   - 118  0.0 S    irq/19-uhci_hcd	
<ailo>    57 FF      77   - 117  0.0 S    irq/21-uhci_hcd	
<ailo>    58 FF      76   - 116  0.0 S    irq/23-uhci_hcd	
<ailo>    63 FF      75   - 115  0.0 S    irq/1-i8042	
<ailo>    62 FF      74   - 114  0.0 S    irq/12-i8042	
<ailo>    20 FF      50   -  90  0.0 S    irq/9-acpi	
<ailo>    40 FF      50   -  90  0.0 S    irq/17-ahci	
<ailo>   217 FF      50   -  90  0.0 S    irq/18-pata_jmi	
<ailo>   221 FF      50   -  90  0.0 S    irq/6-floppy	
<ailo>   268 FF      50   -  90  0.0 S    irq/18-firewire	
<ailo>  1054 FF      50   -  90  0.0 S    irq/44-eth0	
<ailo>     3 TS       -   0  19  0.2 R    ksoftirqd/0	
<ailo>     9 TS       -   0  19  0.2 S    ksoftirqd/1	
<abogani> That's right
<abogani> ailo: Thanks
<ailo> abogani, The dependencies for the headers meta package is misspelled. It says, depends on llinux-lowlatency-headers-3.2.0-1, instead of linux-headers-3.2.0-1-lowlatency
<ailo> (without the double l )
<abogani> ailo: Good catch!
 * abogani  runs to fix it
<ScottL> abogani, do you need it reported everytime someone runs rteval?  or can those who test just do it once per machine?
<ScottL> len, i'll respond in your email (and knows you are not on line right now)
<abogani> ScottL: Once per machine
<ScottL> abogani, is it acceptable to post the results here in channel?
<ScottL> i will follow up with holstein and len to make sure they get them to you
<ScottL> i will do mine later today
<abogani> ScottL: -devel mailing list would be better.
<abogani> ScottL: FYI Next week I'll return to work on -realtime kernel.
<holstein> abogani: o/
<holstein> abogani: i can try to get that system to fail again
<holstein> its challenging though... when it fails, i got nothing... no TTY
<abogani> holstein: Ok. If nothing else works try to remove "quiet splash" from GRUB menu and take a photo of the screen.
<holstein> the firmware package is firmware-b43-installer
<holstein> abogani: i might have to have a fresh install to make it fail, and i might not have time for that til monday
<abogani> holstein: ok
<ScottL> holstein, abogani has asked that those who are testing rteval do 'sudo /etc/init.d/rtirq status' and post to -devel mailing list
<holstein> i booted up that machine, and forgot to do it before i left the house :/
<ailo>  ScottL: I see you edited the rteval test page
<ailo> ScottL, About the test results, why not just submit the .tar.bz2 that's automatically generated from the test?
<ScottL> ailo, is there?  i didn't know that :P
<ScottL> i'm not the one who set up the test, i'll look into what it creates
<ailo> ScottL, You changed the procedure for the test, so I assumed you had been in contact with Conclin about it.
<ailo> But, it did seem a little strange
<ailo> ScottL, And why the cgroups thing?
<ScottL> ailo, i don't know, just following what he asked me to do
<ailo> ScottL, He asked you to change the procedure of the test?
<ScottL> after we get back from my in-laws house i will check on the .tar.bz2 file and remove the > blah-blah.txt part
<ScottL> he asked me to make sure to run it through console to check cgroups
<ScottL> he was unsure how cgroups would affect the test
<ailo> ScottL, ok. The files generated are named rteval-<date>-1,  rteval-<date>-2, etc
<ailo> ScottL, ending with .tar.bz2 (forgot to add that)
<ailo> Basically a folder with some files in it
<ailo> ScottL, And maybe only one person needs to do the cgroups test?
<ailo> This way, the test could be simplified
<ScottL> ailo, i have been in contact with steve about it, he emailed me several times about it
<ScottL> sorry, was responded to earlier comment
<ScottL> but the part i added was to dump the screen output to a txt file
<ScottL> i've looking to the .bz2 file quickly and i didn't see some of this information except in an .xml file
<Nightrav1n> Hi guys where would i have to submit a image as a wallpaper for the default installation? :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-11-25
<ScottL> Nightrav1n, can you send an email to the -devel mailing list?
<ScottL> and thanks for hanging in channel long enough to get a reply ;)
<ScottL> Nightrav1n, ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
 * micahg should probably subscribe to that
<ScottL> micahg, it's not as exciting as you might think ;)
<stochastic> Nightrav1n, do you have a link of the image?
<micahg> ScottL: BTW, the ubuntustudio-meta upload should fix all the uninstallability except for wine
<micahg> well, wine + ia32-libs...
<ScottL> micahg, thank you :)
 * micahg hasn't done it yet, but still on the list
 * micahg goes and and does it
<micahg> ScottL: uploaded
<falktx> hey there
<ailo> good morning falktx 
<ailo> Nice day for coding, don't you think?
<falktx> ailo: yes!
<falktx> I'll finish my canvas stuff and do a final test before cadence gets alpha1, finally
<falktx> time to make some music!
<ailo> I'm doing some puredata patches myself. Making a custom app for sequencing and recording music.
<falktx> nice
 * abogani waves all
<abogani> ... the jackd realtime threads should run at a priority higher than the standard IRQs but lower than the audio-related ones  ...
<abogani> What priority we use for Jackd in Ubuntu Studio?
<ailo> abogani, The file /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf, which is added when installing jack, has this setting:
<ailo> @audio   -  rtprio     95
<ailo> @audio   -  memlock    unlimited
<ailo> I assume this is what you mean
<ailo> Users in "audio" group are able to start jack with these settings
<abogani> ailo: Those are upper limits. I meant jackd's command line -P parameter or qjackctl (priority value).
<ailo> abogani, There are no added parameter what I am aware of
<abogani> ailo: Hmmm so we don't provide a reasonable default value... :-(
<ailo> abogani, Ubuntu Studio uses the default settings created by just installing jackd. Performance is good. But, if I do ..
<ailo> ps -eo pid,rtprio,ni,pri,comm
<ailo>   PID RTPRIO  NI PRI COMMAND
<ailo> 24129      -   0  19 jackd
<ailo> Is this what you mean?
<abogani> ailo: Yes.
<ailo> qjackctl has a parameter called "priority" and it is set to "default"
 * abogani is wondering about the numeric value of that "default"...
<shnatsel> you can look it up in gnome-system-monitor
<shnatsel> it's called niceness
<shnatsel> negative niceness values mean higher priority
<shnatsel> positive niceness means lower priority
<shnatsel> -20 is the highest possible priority
<shnatsel> 19 is the lowest possible priority
<ailo> shnatsel, We're talking about something else
<shnatsel> ah
<shnatsel> :(
<ailo> shnatsel, Are you talking about the qjackctl parameter called "priority"?
<shnatsel> not sure about qjackctl, never seen it
<shnatsel> but that's what most apps use because it's an OS mechanism
<ailo> abogani, changing that parameter does not change anything. Still: "28568      -   0  19 jackd"
<ailo> abogani, But, I can see that changing "priority" to 20 causes this commandline argument "jackd -P20"
<ailo> abogani, No effect, anyway. But still, good performance
<ailo> I'm looking into what the default value might be
<abogani> ailo: Thanks, that is very important.
<ailo> abogani, I've been told the default value is 10
<ScottL> micahg, outstanding!  thank you again :)
<ScottL> abogani, ailo , we are looking at adding sane default jack settings this cycle
<ScottL> holstein and someone else came up with some but we working on how to implement the settings during installation
<abogani> ScottL: ok
<ScottL> if there is a particular settings you think should be included please let me know
<abogani> ScottL: rtirq set 80 as priority for snd so I *suppose* the right valued should be 79.
<ScottL> abogani, i will note that
<ScottL> thanks :)
<abogani> ScottL: I'm not a Jack expert so please verify my supposition.
<scott-upstairs> man, skaet runs a tight meeting for the release team meeting
<scott-upstairs> TheMuso, this is cjwatsons response to the preseed issue you and len discussed on the mailing list : http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu/revision/1728
<scott-upstairs> i haven't a clue if this really fixes the problem by simply looking at the code
<Nightrav1n> stochastic: yeah sure :) want a pm or shall i post the links to the channel? :)
<falktx> scott-upstairs: ScottL: u there?
<scott-upstairs> falktx, aye, kinda in a release team meeting but i can probably talk for a bit
<scott-upstairs> shoot :)
<falktx> scott-upstairs: I really though deeply about what distro I should focus on. it's no doubt Ubuntu needs more work and help, so I guess I'll stick with Ubuntu
<scott-upstairs> that's fantastic for us ;)  but i feel that the arch people are going to loose something special then
<falktx> Arch users always have AUR
<falktx> it's archaudio devs fault for being too slow
<falktx> the project is there, but seems stuck :(
<falktx> scott-upstairs: anyway, Ubuntu 12.04 should be the focus now
<falktx> is anything fully decided on the theme?
<falktx> (ie, drop the current one and start a new?)
<scott-upstairs> ah, i'm sorry to hear that about the arch progress
<ScottL> falktx, i think there is going to be a great deal of development over the next two years for ubuntu studio and i think you could be a big part of that
<ScottL> i think this is going to be an exciting time
<falktx> ScottL: i'm very sad that linuxsampler is not on Debian though
<falktx> no linuxsampler, no openoctave
<ScottL> falktx, what can we do to get those applications into debian
<falktx> no idea
<falktx> I mean
<falktx> we need to fully understand why it's not there yet
<micahg> http://bugs.debian.org/578787 <-- openoctave
<ubottu> Debian bug 578787 in wnpp "ITP: openoctave -- MIDI and audio sequencer and musical notation editor" [Wishlist,Open]
<micahg> http://bugs.debian.org/561443 <-- linuxsampler
<ubottu> Debian bug 561443 in wnpp "RFP: linuxsampler -- realtime audio sampler" [Wishlist,Open]
<micahg> linuxsampler just needs someone to run with it
<micahg> same with openoctave it seems
<falktx> I think it's time to join the debian multimedia team
<micahg> falktx: the team welcomes help
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-11-26
<ailo> falktx, linux-sampler is non free
<ailo> It has a limitation to it's license which makes it impossible to add it Debian
<ailo> That's what I've  been led to believe at least
<ailo> It's GPL, but with an addition
<falktx> ailo: consider this:
<falktx> skype and sun-java are in debian
<falktx> linuxsampler, just because of a tiny expection is not?
<falktx> it makes no sense to me
<ailo> falktx, You could take it up with Debian people. I'm sure it would have been in their repo a long time ago
<ailo> Otherwise
<falktx> debian is too strict
<ailo> I think they added the limitation to prevent it to be sold as a of hardware
<ailo> as a part of hardware, I mean
<falktx> ailo: take for example audacious, they removed some code simply because the headers did not mentioned the license
<ailo> falktx, Debian is debian. There are other distros that will include linux-sampler
<falktx> that is bullshit to me
<falktx> this is why I love arch
<ailo> I like Debian, because they are strict
<ailo> I can trust it
<falktx> it's the same thing as with GPL
<ailo> Doing things anyway you want is not trustworthy
<falktx> its cool enough, but once you start thinking commercially, there's nothing worst
<falktx> ailo: afaik, they could simply show the license when installing, like they do for java and ms-fonts
<falktx> I just think they are not very interested, that's all
<ailo> falktx, Talk with the multimedia team. I'm sure they're quite interested in linux-sampler
<ailo> It's been around for a long time
<falktx> ailo: I will soon, take my word
<knome> ScottL, what's the status with including social media in the new website? you still want that?
<ScottL> knome, i think including it would be good, just to show that people are talking about it
<ScottL> but i'll poke stochastic about his feelings since he was the one who started questioning it
<ScottL> knome, btw, i hope to work on the website today now that i'm feeling better and holiday is (more or less) over
<knome> ScottL, great! let me know if there is something you need help with and i'll see if i can fix that right away
<holstein> i feel like as long as we state the purpose of the social media, and our understanding of why it would be opposed, all should be good
<holstein> "we understand that the use of such services can be controversial in an open community, however, we feel this is a necessary evil to reach users who are not aware of US"
<ailo> holstein, ScottL Check out diaspora
<ailo> No need for facebook, or twitter
<ailo> diaspora is free
<holstein> yeah, but its got to be something folks use, or it defeats the purpose
<holstein> does it link up with facebag? or twite?
<ailo> https://diasp.org/
<ailo> I hear google+ based some of their stuff on this
<ailo> You can link it up with facebook at least, but it's still alpha
<ailo> There are "pods" available for anyone to use
<holstein> i think its got to be easily accesible from the popular ones
<ailo> You can also install your own pod on your own server if you like
<ailo> holstein, Just have a look first, ok?
<holstein> of course, we can individually "social-media" about it
<holstein> we dont have to have it
<ailo> It's still alpha, but it's pretty good
<holstein> ailo: well, if its not facebook/twitter, it doesnt help
<holstein> the problem is, thats what folks use
<holstein> if theres a step involved to go to diaspora, they wont
<ailo> holstein, You can have those as well as diaspora, why wouldn't you?
<holstein> or havent*
<holstein> ailo: well, i would
<holstein> and you would
<holstein> but, will that other guy?
<holstein> they guy that doesnt know what we are talking about?
<holstein> or doesnt care
<holstein> just wants to make music, and click on things
<ailo> https://diasp.org/'
<ailo> sorry wrong link
<holstein> "this looks insteresting, hmmm whats diaspora?... oh well, back to pro-tools"
<ailo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_(software)
<holstein> you know what i mean?
<ailo> holstein, No, I don't know what you mean
<holstein> ailo: the main problem with *any* facebook alternative is, thats its not facebook
<ailo> Seriously, holstein 
<holstein> yeah
<holstein> thats the point
<holstein> otherwise, why do it?
<holstein> we dont *need* social interfacing
<holstein> the only reason i would want it for US is to grab folks from facebook
<holstein> current facebook users
<holstein> tap into that already existing comunity
<holstein> where those folks will *never* come to IRC
<holstein> or a forum
<holstein> or a wiki
<holstein> we have to go to them.. or thats the argument
<ailo> holstein, Diaspora is still mainly used by people like us. At around 200'000 users right now
<ailo> And it's growing
<holstein> right
<ailo> Take a look, before you keep talking
<holstein> but... the argument is, thats like preaching to the choir
<holstein> i mean, i looked at the link
<holstein> and im into it
<holstein> but, you dont need me
<holstein> im already using ubuntustudio
<holstein> and others who will search 'open alternative to facebook'
<holstein> those are not the folks we need to target
<holstein> those are us
<holstein> we are those users
<holstein> and we are here
<holstein> the argument is, we need facebook and the other more popular closed ones to tap that resource of non-technical folks
<holstein> the 'other' users
<holstein> ailo: you dig?
<ailo> holstein, There's no reason why you can't have them all at once. And why not support diaspora, if you're going to support fb, and twitter?
<ailo> It would seem funny, when open source guys don't want to use open source software
<ailo> Especially software as good as diaspora
<holstein> ailo: OH... you want to add that in..
<holstein> sure 
<holstein> thats fine
<holstein> i thought you were suggesting that *instead*
<holstein> i mean... what about linkedin?
<holstein> i dont know anything about that...
<ailo> holstein, If you have doubts about fb and twitter, at least diaspora is available. And it's growing fast
<holstein> ailo: i dont think its an issue of doubt
<holstein> i hate them
<holstein> but i think we need to do it *if* our goal is to reach those people
<holstein> the question is, who is our target audience?
<holstein> if its the public at large, we need to do it
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-11-27
<scott-upstairs> knome, you appear to be away, but when you get back can you answer a few questions about the website?
<scott-upstairs> http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/download/
<scott-upstairs> the contrast between the buttons, the text inside the buttons, and the background colours makes difficult reading, can this be changed?
<scott-upstairs> also, the buttons are linking directly to the website by default, is there a way to have these buttons link to external URL's ?
<knome> sure
<knome> hmm, yeah
<scott-upstairs> oh hi, knome
<scott-upstairs> i hope i didn't wake you or keep you up?
<scott-upstairs> eh
<scott-upstairs> that can't be good
<knome> ScottL, is the buttons better now?
<knome> *are
<knome> ScottL, now just use urle=http://external.uri/
<knome> instead of url=download/
<knome> i figured you *usually* want the local uris
<scott-upstairs> weeee!  much better!  thank you
<scott-upstairs> knome, yes, i imagine that most times it would be local urls, but the download page is different ;)
<knome> yup
<scott-upstairs> knome, how difficult would it be to add a column on the right to include useful links to such things as iso image explanations, tutorial on how to burn iso iamges, etc?
<scott-upstairs> if it isn't stupid simple then i'll link them at the bottom
<knome> you mean a column in the content area, or in the sidebar??
<knome> it's not completely easy
<scott-upstairs> probably in the sidebar
<knome> hmm
<scott-upstairs> oh, then don't worry about it then
<knome> okay
<scott-upstairs> i've got text on the top that says to look for the help section below
<scott-upstairs> that should suffice
<knome> oki
<scott-upstairs> thank you knome, you absolutely rock ;)
<knome> np
<holstein> so, i guess thats 2 votes for arandr
<scott-upstairs> i read len's post on the list
<scott-upstairs> i don't think we need to beat this to death, just find something that works for a couple of common use cases and we move on ;)
<scott-upstairs> holstein, ^^^
<holstein> yup
<scott-upstairs> documenting the two use cases along with instructions would be helpful
 * scott-upstairs is working on the website now
<holstein> but, he did test, and we both agree on arandr
<holstein> he did some extensive tests it seems
<scott-upstairs> holstein, oh, i know, i'm just saying that others don't need to do extensive testing as well and then put it for debate or committee decision
<scott-upstairs> let's just move on now since we have a decision
<scott-upstairs> holstein, do you think you can len can make a wiki page?  i'd be happy to help with formatting if you want ;)
<holstein> well, we have a DVD, so we dont need to worry with size like the xubuntu folk
<scott-upstairs> i can ask in the email thread to get you both on the same page?
<holstein> scott-upstairs: since we cant delete them easily, maybe we should look for any current dual-head documentation
<holstein> i feel like len and I can make that happen
<scott-upstairs> holstein, good idea about looking for other documentation
<scott-upstairs> you might even check the blueprint and see if they have documentation you can steal ;)
<holstein> yup
<scott-upstairs> hey knome, i'm having trouble making text bold, i'm using the <strong> tag but it isn't appearing for me in firefox.  any suggestions?
<scott-upstairs> maybe i'll use red instead to highlight it
<knome> where do you use that?
<knome> should work now
<scott-upstairs> on the download page, there is a line that says '<strong> this is strong!</strong>
<knome> refresh
<scott-upstairs> http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/download/
<scott-upstairs> refreshing the page now
<scott-upstairs> yay!  thanks again knome
<knome> np
<knome> my bad
<knome> :P
<scott-upstairs> if i ever met you in person, i owe you several beers, my friend!
<knome> thanks :)
<knome> that's appreciated
<knome> (not by my wife though, people owe me gallons of beer already :P)
<knome> did you come to any conclusion with the "featured" area?
<scott-upstairs> knome, i'm sorry that i don't remember what conclusion i was to arrive at, can you refresh my memory?
<scott-upstairs> my plan was to get the download page relatively square away, then move to the slide show and feature tour pages this morning
<scott-upstairs> (although i was only going to add topic names and bullet points and links to the slide show/feature tour pages today)
<knome> what to do with it. should the buttons be moved to the right hand side on the frontpage?
<knome> what about the background images?
<scott-upstairs> oh, oh, yes, i remember now
<knome> etc...
<scott-upstairs> i think we should leave it as is
<scott-upstairs> i believe this will make it much, much easier to develop and complete from what you have described
<scott-upstairs> knome, i do haver another question for you, is there an easy way to make columsn with tags (something similar to <span>) ?
<scott-upstairs> or is there another way i can manually make text or buttons align vertically?
<scott-upstairs> "i think we should leave it as is" means, i think using background images is the preferred direction because it looks very, very nice, which means that the buttons should probably stay on the left side to avoid interferring with the images
 * scott-upstairs realized i wasn't very clear or specific
<scott-upstairs> i suppose the question still remains if the buttons should only be on the front page or not (but that is to be resolved and implemented by scott-upstairs)
<knome> scott-upstairs, yeah, we could add some css classes to make column-like things possible
<scott-upstairs> i'm trying a table tag now :)
<scott-upstairs> but i think the column would look better, i'll google it in a minute
<knome> well, just tell me if you need those css classes
<knome> and what width should they be
<scott-upstairs> knome, could you enable cellspacing please?
 * scott-upstairs presumes it is turned off or disabled
<knome> can you link me to the page where you're having problems
<scott-upstairs> http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/download/
<knome> where exactly? :)
<scott-upstairs> knome, let me try another approach (which may accomplish what i originally wanted)
<knome> there's some padding now for td's anyway
<knome> note that the buttons break if you go too narrow
<knome> == you probably want to make the link titles shorter
<scott-upstairs> i got it :)
<knome> i think "11.04, 32-bit" might just work
<scott-upstairs> and used much less and much cleaner tags this way too 
<scott-upstairs> yeah, you are right
<scott-upstairs> i tend to work pretty detailed first then simplify after i get the form more or less right
<knome> or just "32-bit", if you are specifying the release in a header
<knome> mm-hmm
 * knome stops nagging
<knome> brb
<scott-upstairs> hehe, knome, i appreciate your "nagging" :)
<scott-upstairs> i think it yields a better product (which is what is important)
<scott-upstairs> brb too, going downstairs with family for a bit
 * scott-upstairs just now sees the 'preview changes' button and slams head on table *thwack*
<scott-upstairs> *sigh* i had been updating the page and the 'view page' again and again and again and again (ad naseum)
<knome> lol
<knome> you can just refresh the page
<scott-upstairs> i didn't like it because i knew it created another revision version
<knome> without clicking "view"
<scott-upstairs> sometimes i'm slow, but i _do_ learn :P
<knome> heh
<knome> i usually just save the page and refresh it in other window
<astraljava> No meeting?
<knome> err, nope
<astraljava> I'm late again, yeah I know, but still.
<scott-upstairs> arghh!  i forgot the meeting too :/
<scott-upstairs> crap
<scott-upstairs> http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/download/
<scott-upstairs> it's as good as i'm going to get at the moment and i am very open to comments
<knome> scott-upstairs, i'll get back to you later today :)
<scott-upstairs> knome, no problem, that wasn't directly specifically at you but i'm glad for your input
<knome> oki :)
<scott-upstairs> knome, can the 'front tabs' or 'slide show' be automated?  and should it?
<scott-upstairs> the second question was a philosophical question
<shnatsel> scott-upstairs: "current recommended" is probably added by C.O.
<knome> yes, (philosophical answer then: but i'm not sure if it should, because the first "tab" is really the most important)
<shnatsel> it's overly complicated and confusing
<shnatsel> direct links should be located over torrent links
<shnatsel> "how do I open .torrent" has quite some ranks in Google search
<scott-upstairs> shnatsel, hmmm, wanted to make sure people understand that the currently recommended isn't necessarily the 'latest' one
<knome> scott-upstairs, might as well give feedback now...
<scott-upstairs> shnatsel, there is a FAQ in the bottom about torrents, maybe i should link down there to it from the tight
<scott-upstairs> err. top
<knome> scott-upstairs, try to make the page as narrow as possible.
<knome> scott-upstairs, the buttons break
<knome> scott-upstairs, this is why i propose:
<knome> scott-upstairs, change "Torrent Links" to "Torrents"
<shnatsel> buttons should have equal width
<shnatsel> "direct image" > "direct download"
<knome> scott-upstairs, change "Direct Image Links" to ".iso" or sth
<knome> scott-upstairs, remove "Torrent" and "ISO Image" from buttons
<knome> scott-upstairs, that should enable enough width for the buttons
<scott-upstairs> shnatsel, are you saying that the direct links should come before the torrent links?  i would like to gently guide users to use torrents before direct
<scott-upstairs> hehe, you guys are typing way too fast for me to keep up :P
<knome> sorry :'<
<shnatsel> scott-upstairs: yeah I know torrents have checksumming etc, but direct links should come first.
<scott-upstairs> hehe, it's okay
<knome> maybe tell the user that torrent is preferred if they know how to download them
<scott-upstairs> knome, ^^^
<shnatsel> scott-upstairs: also, clicking the button should automatically direct you to section called "while Ubuntu Studio is downloading, learn how to install it"
<shnatsel> or something like that
<shnatsel> LTS is confusing
<shnatsel> expand it to Long Term Support
<shnatsel> Try using these headers:
<shnatsel> Regular release
<shnatsel> Long Term Support release
<shnatsel> Development release (red instead of blue, or somehow scary or less visible than others)
<knome> lol
<scott-upstairs> okay, picking up most of that
<scott-upstairs> but shnatsel you list regular, lts, and development as releases
<scott-upstairs> there really isn't three types of release
<scott-upstairs> and i wanted this to be viewed from the perspective of someone not currently using linux or ubuntu
<knome> development release == precise to be exact
<scott-upstairs> knome, that is true
<knome> i'd recommend using "normal" and "LTS"
<scott-upstairs> but we will not be linking to that from this page though
<knome> or just drop "normal"
<knome> yeah.
<knome> "Current Release" and "Current Long Term Support Release"
<scott-upstairs> okay, i can do that
<knome> don't talk about development if you aren't talking about development :))
<scott-upstairs> shnatsel> scott-upstairs: also, clicking the button should automatically direct you to section called "while Ubuntu Studio is downloading, learn how to install it"
<scott-upstairs> i am unsure how to accomplish this
<shnatsel> scott-upstairs: use a separate "download" page, or make a javascripted button that falls back to usual link in <noscript>
<shnatsel> scott-upstairs: possibilities are endless
<knome> buttons better now?
<knome> i need to run soon
<knome> so don't wonder if i stop replying
<knome> X)
<shnatsel> still overly complicated
<shnatsel> look at http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/download and http://elementaryos.org/downloads
<ScottL> shnatsel, i will look at those later, right now outside with family putting up christmas decorations
<ScottL> oh, and i forgot to the people that i ordered my canon t2i yesterday :)  i'm pretty freaking excited about that
<shnatsel> ScottL: congratz!
<ScottL> :)  it's a big step into what i want to do (both with ubuntu studio and personally)
<Nightraven> hey guys, as recently noticed i have got some pictures i would like to submit/suggest as wallpaper. I have just subscribed to the devel mailinglist how shall i submit the images? as attachement or link to a hosting site? :)
<shnatsel> Nightraven: AFAIK links to hosting sites are preferred.
<Nightraven> shnatsel: ok thx, mail sent :)
<shnatsel> Nightraven: wow, they look nice!
<Nightraven> thx :)
<stochastic> Hey everyone, sorry I forgot about the meeting and slept in
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-11-19
<len-dt> knome, That is a much more limited workflow.... about how I do things as a non-photographer for archive only purposes.
<knome> sure, just wanted to share
<len-dt> I too load direct off USB stick or From the SD port on my netbook. I do limited editing that is mostly make things the right way up :)
<knome> didn't actually even read it thoroughly ;)
<len-dt> It is interesting that he uses the proprietary SW that Brant uses.
<len-dt> The other thing That was interesting (and I have found to be true) is how long an impression of some SW lasts.
<len-dt> That is if I tried something a few years ago and it was bad, I feel the same way about that software now even though it may have gotten better.
<knome> yeah
<len-dt> Hmm, PCIe interrupts are interesting. They are sent over the same lines as the data it seems.
<len-dt> I think I understand why PCIe sound cards may be a problem.
<smartboyhw> Did anyone realize that actually the raring i386 images don't have -pae?:P I've reported this to apw...
<astraljava> How to Enable PAE
<astraljava> Ubuntu 12.10 (Quantal, unreleased) and onwards
<astraljava> The generic default kernel already has PAE enabled.
<astraljava> I don't think there is a need for specific -pae flavor anymore.
<astraljava> The above text is from: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EnablingPAE
<smartboyhw> astraljava, yep anyway...... 
<astraljava> Anyway what? :)
<scott-work> i have learned quite a bit over the last week about synfig studio. it is bloody amazing
<smartboyhw> Hey scott-work good;D
 * smartboyhw finds it weird that ubuntustudio-default-settings is in section gnome....
<zequence> scott-work: How do our blueprints end up here? http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/
<zequence> Since they haven't yet..
<zequence> Do we need to register them somewhere?
<smartboyhw> zequence, they need the Ubuntu Drivers to approve into raring....
<smartboyhw> zequence, find skaet or any member of release team
<scott-work> zequence: we need to talk to the release manager i would suppose
<scott-work> normally this has been kate, although i am unsure what their plans are for the future, i.e. will they continue using status.ubuntu.com
<knome> scott-work, there is no "release manager" :)
<scott-work> knome: well, whatever kate's position has been
<smartboyhw> scott-work, er kate's position is now obsolete right?
<knome> scott-work, they will. you basically need somebody to accept the bleuprints for R
<scott-work> a week ago or so i noticed that not many of the "flavours" were listed on status.ubuntu.com
<knome> scott-work, it was the release manager. it's just that there isn't one this time.
<smartboyhw> scott-work, the Ubuntu Drivers have the privellege right?
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i am unsure
<knome> zequence, just ask stgraber to do it for you.
<scott-work> knome: i imagine the flavours that were already on status.ubuntu.com had leads that were already on the release team and could add their flavours themselves
<smartboyhw> scott-work, 1. Xubuntu didn't, 2. We didn't and 3. Where's Lubuntu then?:P
<knome> scott-work, that makes sense :)
<scott-work> i think it was edubuntu (stgraber) and kubuntu (scott k i think)
<knome> scott-work, but ultimately, there's quite many people who can accept stuff
<knome> scott-work, yup.
<knome> we should look for allowing flavor leads to accept their own stuff
<knome> or in other words, be able to accept blueprints for releases
<zequence> We're lacking a bit of administration rights withing this team
<scott-work> was it scottk that had a head injury and wore a patch for a while?
<knome> scott-work, at least didn't in uds :)
<zequence> scott-work: Nope. that's the Kubuntu lead, I forget his name
<knome> riddell
<smartboyhw> zequence, wait Xubuntu didn't then:P
<knome> jonathan
<zequence> Yea, Riddel. He was wearing an eye patch at times
<smartboyhw> Stephane Graber + Jonathan Riddell 
<knome> zequence, we don't have the rights to accept stuff either. that's not what has been given to flavors
<scott-work> yes, riddell! that's him
<scott-work> knome: i would think we should be able to accept these things
<smartboyhw> scott-work, actually I think riddell and graber are Canonical employees....
<smartboyhw> at least riddell
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i believe stgraber is as well
<smartboyhw> scott-work, yeah
<zequence> knome: We need to get an Ubuntu dev into our team(s). Or, one of us should become one
<smartboyhw> zequence, /me agrees
<knome> scott-work, i would do, but that's not how it has been done in the past, and we need to approach the DMB if we want to pursue that
<knome> zequence, that doesn't give you the accept-rights yet
<smartboyhw> workitem for this week: Target all blueprints to raring!
<scott-work> knome: i would support this, should we work up an email together? send separate emails?
<zequence> Well, one little step at a time, I guess :)
<smartboyhw> scott-work, seperate is better I think. Tell Lubuntu and Mythbuntu's lead also
<knome> scott-work, i have it on my todo, but if you have time to work on it, feel free to
<smartboyhw> Lubuntu Lead = Julien Lavergne, Mythbuntu = ?
<knome> smartboyhw, doesn't need to be a separate email. once we get things moving, they will be applied to all flavors
<knome> smartboyhw, i already discussed this with cjwatson and he told to send email and it'll be discussed amongst the right people 
<smartboyhw> knome, ah good:D
<smartboyhw> That is a community win:D
<smartboyhw> zequence, so how are you gonna simplify the blueprints eh?
<zequence> smartboyhw: I'll start removing dependencies for blueprints that aren't nessecary to be completed for a specific release, such as docs, soft dev, etc
<smartboyhw> zequence, I think you should try to simplify the workflows....As our school song says "All for each, each for all":P
<zequence> smartboyhw: I want to tell you something though. I don't mind you having opinions, and I know you are young and eager to participate, but it is not very good of you to participate in communications where you are not assigned to participate
<zequence> smartboyhw: I'm sort of handling blueprints, with scott-work having the last word. 
<zequence> smartboyhw: I've told you this before. My advice is you find something you want to do, and focus on that
<zequence> One soup should not have too many cooks
<zequence> smartboyhw: Like testing docs
<zequence> going home now.. (bb in 15)
<smartboyhw> zequence, that is just a suggestion.......
<smartboyhw> BTW zequence/ len-dt / scott-work try to book a session in the Ubuntu Developer Week here (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Timetable). Don't forget to contact dholbach....
<knome> http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/11/19/joining-the-darktable-side/ :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-11-20
<ttoine> hi
<ttoine> can someone tell me if it is possible to backport soundconverter in 12.10, maybe 12.04 ? Bug #1077508
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1077508 in soundconverter (Ubuntu) "2.0.1 is bugged, update to 2.0.4" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077508
<smartboyhw> ttoine, yes....
<smartboyhw> ttoine, use requestbackport command in terminal (install ubuntu-dev-tools first)
<ttoine> smartboyhw, is it not possible to use launchpad ? It is fixed in Debian, but not in Ubuntu...
<zequence> ttoine: The procedure is to use the command tools (it's integrated with launchpad)
<zequence> ttoine: Let's add a workitem for it. We need to start a routine for backporting (that workitem is already present)
<zequence> I'll add a new blueprint for backporting
<zequence> First, breakfest
<smartboyhw> zequence, what's on breakfast today?;P
<zequence> smartboyhw: Bread an cottage cheese (forgot my avocado at home)
<smartboyhw> zequence, oh;P
<zequence> ttoine: I feel the whiteboard on public relations covers just about everything. Is there something there you feel is missing? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/ubuntustudio-public-relations
<zequence> I think it might be good to wrap up the technical side of PR within the next couple of weeks, and start posting actively
<zequence> Scott has made a good job of skething things out
<ttoine> zequence, you are right, it covers almost everything
<ttoine> zequence, sorry, I am a bit overloaded those days. I had my workshop sunday about recording with Ardour
<ttoine> and was at the JDLL.org all the week-end
<ttoine> will be better tomorrow, if I can find some time to sleep. I think I will try to make an illustrated doc on "recording music with Ubuntu Studio and Ardour"
<ttoine> I meet a guy using CentOs and Planet CCRMA to make music. He did a workshop. Nobody understand anything. Too complicated... And with Ubuntu Studio, all worked out of the box.
<zequence> ttoine: :)
<smartboyhw> ttoine, good
<zequence> ttoine: I updated this page with some info now https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PublicRelations
<zequence> It's just an edited version of the whiteboard
<ttoine> zequence, ok. I have to go out of office. See you later.
<zequence> cherio
<smartboyhw> zequence (or any other guy in the dev team) please approve https://code.launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio/+merge/135123 (you can't not merge it, 0.40 is up into raring-proposed already...
<ttoine> hop
<smartboyhw> ttoine, hop what?:P
<astraljava> Beer hop, naturally.
 * astraljava has this t-shirt: http://bit.ly/USOZjV
<ttoine> astraljava, nice
<ttoine> smartboyhw, hop, here again
<len-dt> smartboyhw, micahg (or whoever releases) does that not us.
<len-dt> We have been told to leave things as UNRELEASED
<smartboyhw> len-dt, er actually I released that and dholbach sponsored it so...
<ttoine> I am testing the 310 nvidia beta driver. It's fast. Amazingly fast !!!
<smartboyhw> ttoine, :d
<ttoine> from the startup to the login screen, and then switching between apps, etc... all is fast. I never seen that with my thinkpad before
<len-dt> smartboyhw, why?
<zequence> Has there even been any changes made to that source?
<len-dt> zequence, some minor menu mods
<zequence> smartboyhw: So you see, uploading had no purpose
<len-dt> Two of them, both mine.
<len-dt> It seems there is now an unofficial version of settings in the wild...
<zequence> len-dt: What do you mean?
<len-dt> if smartboyhw has had someone release something from his part of things as if it came from here...
<len-dt> released where?
 * len-dt is confused as to what happened.
<len-dt> smartboyhw, anyway your merge is something we were told not to do.
<zequence> I had a one on one conversation with smartboyhw about this. I'm hoping he will ask before acting on issues like this in the future
<zequence> Asking is always welcome
<len-dt> In that case I will say no more and leave settings as is.
<ttoine> zequence, I have writen a small testimonial on your wiki page. good luck for membership
<zequence> ttoine: Thanks. Yea, tomorrow is the day, so let's see how it goes :)
<smartboyhw> zequence, you on the 12:00 or 22:00 membership board?
<zequence> 12.00. I'm +1, so 22.00 would be a bit too late for me
<zequence> Time to go home (zzz..)
<smartboyhw> zequence, good I am gonna see the progress. Do they accept live testimonials?:P
<ttoine> smartboyhw, it is writen that testimonials written on the wiki page are better for people who can't attend to the membership
<smartboyhw> ttoine, so that's why I am going to do a "live testimonial":P
<ttoine> http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/decklink/
<ttoine> linux driver for pro video hardware
<ttoine> it is aimed at gstreamer acceleration. I a trying to talk with pitivi devel to see if they could handle that
<ttoine> I am trying
<holstein> zequence: you would think.. but then theres the "ralph" factor
<zequence> holstein: First of all, I haven't recommended anyone to use an older lowlatency kernel
<zequence> Second, what about ralph?
 * smartboyhw wonders what is ralph
<holstein> zequence: you can... im just talking about a user such as ralph from the list
<holstein> ralph might be the kind of user who would expect US to support an older kernel
<holstein> and should we?
<holstein> it might just work fine... i agree that if the user typically knows how to switch kernels, they probably know how to deal with the consequences
<zequence> I've considered this. Since newer kernels have been a bit poor, it might have been a plus to use an older kernel, such as 2.6.39, which was the first to support threadirqs, but also very fast
<zequence> It's probably not possible to do in the main repo though
<zequence> And I think this is a special case, which only a few people will want
<holstein> the RT kernel from 9.10 works great
<zequence> Well, so does -lowlatency 2.6.37
<holstein> still, like you say few people want it.. and i argue even less need it
<holstein> they see the term "realtime" thrown around, and want it... and thats fine
<zequence> I haven't done enough live processing with the newer kernels to verify if they are able to give me what I need. I'm not very sure they can
<holstein> i say, from a marketing perspective, we should be "the first audio distro providing excellent latency without the need for a realtime kernel"
<zequence> And, if that is so, the group of people who would "need" a faster kernel, would be fairly large
<zequence> holstein: But, it's not all together true, since -lowlatency is only possible thanks to the realtime patch, which now to a great extent lives in the vanilla kernel
<holstein> so, whats not true?
<zequence> What I'd like to say is -lowlatency is an officially supported kernel, while -rt is experimental
<holstein> sure, but there is no "rt"
<holstein> you can make one.. or try the ones from ppa.. but we dont have an rt one.. not even experimental
<zequence> holstein: That -lowlatency is not a realtime kernel. Cause, it is, at least to the extent that it matters to the user (since as I said, the vanilla kernel nowadays includes much of the realtime patch)
<zequence> It's not hard realtime
<holstein> sure.. but if you want lowlatency in a default stock ubuntu.. thats what we have
<zequence> But, it's realtime
<holstein> and thats what we could talk about.. marketing-wise
<zequence> Problem now is that neither a -rt kernel, or a -lowlatency (Debian has a -realtime kernel in their repo) is as good as they used to be
<holstein> they didnt for a while though
<holstein> and i still say, users typically dont need it.. they just want it, which is fine
<zequence> Anyone doing live processing need it
<zequence> Something as simple as playing a live synth
<holstein> sure.. but who are they? most folks have internal cards.. do podcasting maybe
<holstein> not a lot of folks do either effects nor synths
<zequence> I don't know what makes you think that, but in my experience, people who make music quite often do live processing in one way or another
<holstein> it would be nice to have something to offer them though, since 3 years ago we did
<holstein> zequence: i find most users think they need it.. but really dont even have the harware to support it
<zequence> We are offering it to them, with -lowlatency
<holstein> zequence: sure.. but its not as good as rt from 9.10
<zequence> I'm telling you, -lowlatency is if not exactly as good, then about as good as -rt
<holstein> not nearly as good for my firewire
<zequence> You're talking about kernel versions
<zequence> Not, -rt vs -lowlatency
<zequence> The -realtime in Debian repo sux as well
<holstein> im talking about what came in the repos for 9.10 vs what is in the repo in 12.10
<zequence> Why? Because of the kernel version
<holstein> im talking about. i install and dont know what a kernel is/does
<holstein> i can have as good performance as i had in 9.10
<zequence> Add a realtime patch to 3.2, and it will suck just as much as -lowlatency
<holstein> why is that? i might not care.. i might just move on. but i likely dont need it anyways
<zequence> Because, as I said before, something in the vanilla kernel made it less responsive. And both -rt and -lowlatency suffers from that
<zequence> So, what would you do, if you want to have low latency on 12.04, if neither -rt or -lowlatency is good enough?
<zequence> Perhaps use an older kernel?
<holstein> i would like to change the idea.. marketing wise
<holstein> we are not going to have an rt kenrel in the repo
<holstein> and the kernel is what it is
<holstein> so, we could just try and state the facts.. 
<zequence> If we could get some hard facts down, from testing -lowlatency vs -rt, we could clearly state how good/bad -lowlatency is. N
<holstein> try and get folks to just try the software, and not really think/worry so much about getting sub 1 ms latency
<holstein> zequence: i think that would be helpful
<holstein> zequence: especially for some commom hardware types
<holstein> zequence: you think for 12.10? 12.04? both?
<zequence> I don't think most people are concerned with the 1 ms bit, just that they don't get xruns when using their OS for making music
<holstein> zequence: i think we could get a nice cross section of harware represented
<zequence> Someone would need to build -rt kernels, and add them to a PPA for testing purposes
<zequence> If the kernel 12.04 would have been better performing (and again, not the fault of -lowlatency, but the kernel version itself), then I would have felt better about promoting it
<holstein> or, just state the facts about what is default
<zequence> I'm not sure those kernels are adequate for live processing
<zequence> Which sux, bigtime
<holstein> "im using default 12.04, stock kernel with x hardware, performance is x"
<holstein> ^^ for example
<holstein> maybe not a comparison so much as a statement
<zequence> YEa, well. We did do those tests between -generic, and -lowlatency, if you remember. I even compared to -rt on 9.10. And at the time, the result was clear. -lowlatency kicked ass
<zequence> But, the problem again, is not -lowlatency. It's the kernel version
<holstein> yeah... well, hopefully its being addressed
<holstein> not much we can do about it at this point.. with the lts..
<zequence> I talked with someone in the kernel team about it in UDS, and they said they had found something weird, but no one knew what it was
<holstein> to "fix" it.. i mean
<holstein> zequence: great....
<holstein> zequence: i wish we had a representative up there.. someone with our interests in mind... 
<zequence> This is why I'm not a big fan of LTS for Ubuntu Studio. 9.10 was our LTS
<smartboyhw> holstein, if that so it will be zequence :P
<zequence> Actually, let me try jack quickly on 13.04..
<holstein> zequence: i should be doing that too.. and can
<zequence> It's not good enough
<zequence> I mean, the kernel on here
<zequence> Well, maybe. 
<holstein> i could load up the 64bit 13.04 on my main rig and test with firewire when i get my device back over here
<zequence> Ok, so this is ok. I don't seem to get xruns at 64 f/p, that's about 2.7ms latency (in jack, but it's not the real latency)
<zequence> That's my acceptable limit. 128 f/p works, sort of, but it's a little too much
<zequence> If 32 f/p worked, that would be a great safe margin
<zequence> I'd need to have the system running for a while to catch any random xruns
<zequence> That's the main problem I saw with 12.04 and 12.10.
<zequence> Yep, I just got one
<holstein> thats how i feel about it.. acceptable
<holstein> not rip-roaring like 9.10/10.04 was...
<zequence> So, this is probably not good enough for me then
<holstein> i have a few devices though... firewire and a few usb's
<zequence> And the 3.7 kernel is no better than those on 12.04 and 12.10
<zequence> jta: Hey man
<holstein> is anybody way upstream with this issue?
<smartboyhw> zequence, jta holstein bye
<smartboyhw> holstein, what do ya mean?
<holstein> i mean, this is not ubuntustudio specific, correct?
<holstein> all newer kernels suck, correct?
<zequence> holstein: No. This has only to do with the vanilla kernel source
<holstein> zequence: wonder if we can just go up there and sort it out? then it'll trickle in to everyone
<holstein> zequence: do we know anyone up there?
<zequence> holstein: I'm not sure anyone even knows why
<smartboyhw> holstein, zequence the problem is that you can't get official -rt patches for 3.7... They only release for like 2.6, 3.0, 3.2, 3.4, 3.6, 3.8 and so on...
<holstein> and its challenging since its not a goal up there
<zequence> The linux kernel is from what I understand the largest software project in the world
<zequence> So, not easy to keep track of all the changes in the code
<zequence> But, I'm sure someone knows something
<zequence> It's not something we can do, anyway (until one of us becomes a kernel hacker)
<holstein> maybe i'll ask casually in #ardour
<holstein> those guys are sharp
<holstein> or, if we could get someone like jono using the software and asking (complaining) about it
<zequence> There are a couple of guys who work on kernel code, and I believe one or two of them might be in there
<zequence> jta: So, did you have a launchpad account
<zequence> jta: We're using launchpad for most of the things we do now, so you'd really need to get into speed with that, at least so that we know your lp username
<jta> zequence: not yet, I have been busy wrapping up my event season...
<jta> I will float it to the top of my list so it gets done sooner zequence 
<jta> zequence: ok done, it's in the top section of my todo list
<zequence> jta: Ah, great. It's just very convenient when doing planning
<zequence> And you'll be able to see changes that we do also, and be up to speed with what's happening
<jta> zequence: cool, thanks for the prompt
<knome> zequence, mind if i use your first name on your wikipage?
<zequence> knome: Of course not. :)
<knome> zequence, great, thanks
<knome> zequence, i've added a testimony for you
<zequence> knome: Thanks a bunch :)
<knome> np
<zequence> Actually, I'm going to change my opinion about -realtime vs -lowlatency now
<zequence> It's just that -lowlatency 2.6.37 was a great combination, but on later kernels, -rt is still very much ok
<zequence> holstein: I just did some testing with -rt on Wheezy. It's 3.2 series. 
<zequence> It's quite ok, actually
<zequence> I'd need to run it for longer periods, to make sure
<zequence> I did have some problems with it in the past, but not sure if it was my own fault
<holstein> zequence: i was going to look to be sure but i think thats where AVlinux stopped
<holstein> 3.2.x
<zequence> There's no newer kernel for Debian, in fact
<holstein> they build custom ones
<holstein> he has a kernel guy.. and he does the rest
<holstein> the performance so far is quite nice
<zequence> I think their kernel is 3.0.36 
<holstein> its not installed on my main machine, so i dont have a good analog to it
<zequence> I'm building 2.6.38 right now, to do some tests. I was just at #lad talking about kernels, and we started doing some cyclic tests
<holstein> COOL
<holstein> thats what we need.. data
<holstein> and a kernel dev
<zequence> Well, we still can't use -rt, unless we use an older kernel for some of the releases
<zequence> Since the realtime patch is not released for every kernel version
<zequence> But, if -lowlatency does not improve, I might find the motivation to see about making that happen
<zequence> But not sooner than 14.04
<holstein> well, a ppa would be fine, if folks want/need it
<holstein> i was hoping by 14.04 we would all be using a generic kernel for everything
<zequence> while -lowlatency is at best useful, -generic is not even nearly
<zequence> And I don't think that situation will improve easily
<zequence> Cause no one is really asking for a kernel like that
<zequence> Except for some hippie musicians
<holstein> yeah... its not in the main stream desktop need
<holstein> servers i suppose dont need it either
<zequence> Servers need the contrary
<holstein> i tried the liquorix kernel
<zequence> That's probably why we're not getting what we need
<zequence> servers are optimized for throughput, which is something realtime sacrifices
<zequence> holstein: This may answer some of it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Linux#Con_Kolivas.27_criticism_of_kernel_politics
<zequence> Well, maybe not :)
<zequence> But, linux on such platforms as Debian/Ubuntu are definately more used for servers than desktops
<zequence> And the business is more tuned towards that
<holstein> which is fine, if we could get someone like AVlinux's kernel guy to help us... get him up as a motu for a specific kernel
<zequence> holstein: I think I'm more than capable of maintaing a kernel, so that's not the issue
<zequence> But, coding is another thing all together
<holstein> zequence: i think it would be great if it were you
<zequence> I'm pretty happy with -lowlatency right now, since with very little effor, we get a pretty nice kernel that can do most people well
<zequence> But, if things don't change in the future, I will probably want to see a possible addition of a -rt kernel
<holstein> yup.. its a good place to be
<zequence> heh, I need to start using bigger partitions for my installs
<zequence> 40GB, with /home on a separate partition (mostly), I almost ran out of space just now
<zequence> Ah, of course. It's the Linux Steam game
<zequence> holstein: So, I booted into the 2.6.38 kernel, and did the cyclic test
<zequence> holstein: There's one thing that kind of determines how well it performs
<zequence> On -lowlatency 3.7 I got max:~1200, on -rt 3.2:~130, and again, the -lowlatency 2.6.38: ~473
<zequence> On -generic it would be something like ~4000
<zequence> So, 2.6.38 is so damn good, you don't even need more
<zequence> But, for some reason there has been a regression since then
<zequence> And the current lowlatency just doesn't match up
<zequence> Well, the 2.6.38 -generic might be better too of course
<zequence> Better than current -generics, that is
<zequence> holstein: :(. Actually, 2.6.38 on this release was not a big success, when I had it on for a bit longer.
<zequence> It's still better than the current kernel, but not by as much as I had hoped
<zequence> The difference is not big enough to be important
<micahg> 2.6.38 was part of natty (11.04) which is no longer supported
<zequence> micahg: Yea, I'm just testing performance. I
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-11-21
<smartboyhw> zequence, good patch:D
<zequence> smartboyhw: Well, not really :). It contains some unnecessary code. Also, I just added two commits pointed out by falktx. 
<zequence> Much of the patch does not really fix the bug.
<smartboyhw> zequence, oh:P Anyway nervous about your membership application?
<zequence> smartboyhw: Not really. More nervous about forgetting to attend, really
<smartboyhw> zequence, uh.....
<zequence> But, looking forward to it
 * smartboyhw remembers something...
<smartboyhw> zequence, the fix to solve no help in Ubuntu Studio 12.04 is still not SRUed after 4 months...
 * smartboyhw really wants that bug to get solved...
<smartboyhw> Bug 1041882....
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1041882 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Studio 12.04.1 does not have help" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041882
<smartboyhw> len-dt promised to SRU but...
<zequence> smartboyhw: We first need to create help documentation
<smartboyhw> zequence, no len-dt at least fixed the bug....
<zequence> Or, was it supposed to be pointing towards Xubuntu help?
<smartboyhw> zequence, creating help documentation is different....
<smartboyhw> zequence, the link originally doesn't work, and len-dt proposed a temporary fix to point it to ubuntustudio.org
<smartboyhw> zequence, of course we can just create the help documentation, then fix (again) the code and then SRU
<zequence> I'd rather it pointed to our community docs, until here are proper help docs
<zequence> But, we need to discuss this, before making changes
<zequence> smartboyhw: If you like, start a discussion about it on the mail list, and if we can come up with a good solution, it's really up to anyone to do the SRU
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<zequence> smartboyhw: Just don't ever do any SRU requests, if you are not sure that is something the Ubuntu Studio team wants
<zequence> Like now, it became evident, that it is always best to ask first
<zequence> lunch time..
<smartboyhw> zequence, the ultimate ubuntu -lowlatency maintenance guide for ya: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=apw/ubuntu-precise-lowlatency.git;a=blob;f=MAINTENANCE;h=edbad33446e76ef08bceaad2dd7522e8fb5f9af1;hb=08c4d240e6b5050d86bf99339e951f2671cae99c
<zequence> smartboyhw: That's the old file that Luke added(I think). It's not the way to do it though
<smartboyhw> zequence, ah LOL;P
<zequence> Also, the source is different now
<zequence> Or, how it's packaged, that is
<smartboyhw> zequence, yep//////
<smartboyhw> though http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=apw/ubuntu-precise-lowlatency.git;a=commitdiff;h=08c4d240e6b5050d86bf99339e951f2671cae99c will be the files we want to add
<smartboyhw> And just change the versions...
<zequence> smartboyhw: That's not how it's done, but once I start maintaining it, I will document the process thoroughly, and anyone interested can have a look at it
<zequence> I mean, that is how it was done to create the tree, but not how we will be maintaining it
<zequence> There are a lot of scripts used for doing stuff on kernels
<smartboyhw> zequence, wow ok
<zequence> So, probably many of those changes were not done manually
<astraljava> zequence: I'm still interested, even though I'm not _that_ actively involved with the project ATM.
<smartboyhw> zequence, astraljava wait I looked at http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html and it seems we are ALREADY given  the maintenance rights.... (Just comment)
<zequence> astraljava: smartboyhw: That is a part of the routine in maintaining the kernel further on. apw is setting up things for us, and will be handing over maintenance to the kernel team, once he's done
<zequence> But, there's nothing to say about that yet
<zequence> So, perhaps just have a little bit of patience
<zequence> Especially those who are not even in the kernel team ;)
<smartboyhw> zequence, astraljava so good luck on future kernel maintenance.... zequence ;)
<smartboyhw> zequence, I think I will wait for a bit on the testing docs. The Ubuntu Community QA Team will be planning Ubuntu Classroom sessions in December (I will do a ISO Testing session), and I think I would rather wait after it's finished, pack up and change the logs a bit, add Ubuntu Studio content, then finish the testing doc...
<zequence> smartboyhw: No worries. 
<smartboyhw> zequence, private message for a bit? I want to ask something about the kernels (since you don't want a non-kernel team to care about much, I'm not going to log it here...)
<smartboyhw> *team member
<astraljava> zequence: Yep, recalled about as much.
<smartboyhw> Yeah now zequence is a Ubuntu member!!!!!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-11-22
<zequence> len-dt: ubuntustudio-default-settings is ahead of our branch by one commit
<zequence> micahg: What's your opinion abou thtat?
<zequence> len-dt: micahg: I've come to understand that it is possible to lock certaing packages, making uploading to those privileged to a team. But, since we don't have upload rights within the active members of the team, I don't see how this would benefit us atm. Also, I guess we don't really need it either. Just that we have that option
<ttoine> hi
<ttoine> zequence, Bug #1077508
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1077508 in soundconverter (Ubuntu) "2.0.1 is bugged, update to 2.0.4" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077508
<ttoine> the fix is released, it means that the current version is now available somewhere. But where ?
<zequence> ttoine: The development branch, so in 13.04 raring, atm
<zequence> ttoine: We can do an SRU to earlier releases
<zequence> ttoine: Are both 12.04 and 12.10 affected?
<ttoine> zequence, is it difficult ?
<zequence> ttoine: I haven't yet done one. There is a procedure for it
<zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<zequence> A bit of administration :)
<smartboyhw> ttoine, don't worry zequence will surely do it:P
<zequence> we do need to get better at both SRU and backporting :)
<smartboyhw> zequence, :)
<ttoine> smartboyhw, zequence, so I just have to wait ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, no you can do the SRU yourself if you want
<zequence> ttoine: I will shortly start doing that, so I can take care of that one as well. I'll be doing the same for jackd2
<zequence> I added a new blueprint for SRU https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/ubuntustudio-sru
<zequence> There's also one for backports https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/ubuntustudio-backports
<ttoine> zequence, so, are you a Ubuntu member ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, he is (starting from yesterday)
<smartboyhw> Gee that's quick. zequence created the blueprint 12 minutes ago and immediately scott-work subscribed!
<ttoine> smartboyhw, I definitely have to become a member ;-)
<smartboyhw> ttoine, er hrm zequence survived not to be a member for several years;P
<smartboyhw> ttoine, give me your wiki link and I'll write a testimonial
<smartboyhw> zequence, strangely I found a 1-year old empty blueprint by scott-work in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/new-images-plymouth-lightdm-wallpaper  
<ttoine> smartboyhw, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ttoine
<ttoine> smartboyhw, I agree, I survice without being a member for mor than 6 years ago ;-)
<smartboyhw> ttoine, :P
<ttoine> I survive
<ttoine> smartboyhw, but for example, to get the twitter account it will be easier with a @ubuntu.com email address
<ttoine> same when I chat with developper of Pitivi, or hardware manufacturer/vendors
<smartboyhw> ttoine, did write a testimonial
<smartboyhw> bye everyone
<ttoine> zequence, about Public Relation where are we with access to wordpress, sync with facebook, etc.. ?
<ttoine> it would be great to add the jetpack 2 plugin to our worpdress, too
<zequence> ttoine: Let me look it up. If we could post on as many places as possible from one place, that would be great
<zequence> ttoine: Yea, it looks really great
<ttoine> zequence, I already use jetpack on some of my customer websites
<ttoine> it works well for that
<ttoine> only google+ is missing at the moment, but I think that Google is still looking at a better way to get content from websites 
<zequence> ttoine: I'll suggest it on the mail list. Scott was to look into that, but it seems like this plugin would really make things easy for us
<ttoine> zequence, indeed
<zequence> So, hopefully, if he agrees, we are all set
<ttoine> zequence, it would be great if we can create a team with access to wordpress
<ttoine> And I would like to be in
<zequence> ttoine: We have the website team for that
<zequence> Everyone in that team have access to the web site
<ttoine> yes, but who can create and edit content ?
<zequence> Anyone on that team
<ttoine> zequence, I can go on the dashboard
<ttoine> but I can't do anything on wordpress. I only have a access to my profile
<ttoine> susbcriber role, I think
<ttoine> not author or editor
<zequence> ttoine: Members of ~ubuntustudio-website log in with their LP account and get access to everything. I'm in that team, and have access to everything.
<ttoine> I may not be in that team, so
<zequence> So, once we decide on who will be actively doing PR, and with this plugin in place, it should be a simple matter of adding people to the website team and let them start working
<zequence> I'm in the team because I'm doing documentation, but I will not want to be doing any of the PR :)
<ttoine> zequence, I would like to be too for documentation... and PR too
<zequence> ttoine: Sure, but I would prefer we do all of the documentation on the wiki first, before we export it to the website (so it's easier for many people to cooperate)
<zequence> ttoine: G+ doesn't yet have multiple admin support for pages, but it is coming
<zequence> But, it's possible to have multiple pages with the same name :P
<zequence> And we should probably just start a new account for this
<zequence> ttoine: I see you are member of the dev team
<zequence> ttoine: That might mean you have access
<zequence> ttoine: Try going here http://ubuntustudio.org/wp-admin
<zequence> And login with your LP account
<ttoine> zequence, I can login with my lp account
<ttoine> but I only have a subscriber role
<ttoine> I can't write anything
<zequence> ttoine: We should look at adding at least headlines for news onto the main page
<zequence> ttoine: Seems like we can't install plugins though. Tried updating some stuff, and to do that, we need to have access to the server
<ttoine> with admin role, you should be able to add plugins
<ttoine> zequence, what is the server ? it is provided by canonical ?
<ttoine> who managed it ?
<zequence> ttoine: canonical manages the server yes. We can request changes at rt.ubuntu.com. I will do so, as soon as Scott confirms, so that we have consensus
<zequence> Seems all we can do is create, delete pages. And change settings, etc. But not do any sort of updating/installation
<ttoine> zequence, how did you install the theme ?
<zequence> ttoine: knome made it. I believe he gets it uploaded somehow through canonical as well
<zequence> Or, rt.ubuntu.com
<ttoine> speaking about the theme, most of ubuntu related blogs, etc. use the same wordpress theme
<ttoine> maybe we should get this one, colore it in blue, put our logo, and so our website would be more integrated in the general ubuntu communication ?
<micahg> zequence: smartboyhw's merge should be merged in since it was uploaded
<zequence> This is not something any of the other flavors do, and while I can agree that Ubuntu Studio should profile itself as a Ubuntu installation well configured for multimedia creation (with additional helpers, such as the custom menu), I don't think the website needs to look Ubuntu. Also, I have the feeling it will be difficult to get people to agree on such a move :)
<zequence> ttoine: ^
<micahg> zequence: and locking wouldn't have helped in this case, there should be some socialization, especially for flavor specific packages, that the team should be consulted before random uploads are accepted done, except in extenuating circumstances
<micahg> *accepted or done
<micahg> I'll try to follow up with a mail to ubuntu-devel later, I'm off today and wanted it to be a computer-free day for the most part
<zequence> micahg:  Ah, sorry to interrupt you on your day off :)
<micahg> no worries
<zequence> micahg: Why wouldn't locking help? Doesn't that prevent ubuntu devs from uploading?
<ttoine> zequence, ok, it was just an idea
<micahg> zequence: we wouldn't do that anyways in the archive, core devs can upload everything
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-11-23
<zequence> smartboyhw: Hello. Very quiet on IRC
<zequence> All the Americans are at home with their stomachs full and a nasty hangover ;)
<smartboyhw> zequence, you mean me or this channel or you?:P
<smartboyhw> zequence, ah yep
<ttoine> hi
<ttoine> my next laptop : http://shop.donkey-products.com/en/products/i-wood-my-first-laptop
<smartboyhw> ttoine, oh!!!!!!!! LOL
<ttoine> ;-)
<ttoine> no bug, always run, no battery problem... chalk is the only problem to check
<zequence> ttoine: I think you have found the solution to all hardware problems
<zequence> Right. Fantastic product. Always boots, and does exactly what you imagine it would
<ttoine> zequence, but they have to take care, it is rectangular with round corners. Apple's lawers may forbid thus
<ttoine> this
<smartboyhw> ttoine, more LOL
 * smartboyhw just wonders how much an Apple lawyer is paid..Probably 1 million US Dollars per month...
<astraljava> Didn't UK judges overrule that? And even make Apple apologize from Samsung? Or was it some other case?
<smartboyhw> astraljava, hmm depends on where....
 * smartboyhw thought that Apple employed 250 lawyers, with 1 at least designated to a country fighting against Samsung
<astraljava> smartboyhw: What do you mean where? I'm expecting UK judges only having jurisdiction inside Great Britain borders.
<ttoine> astraljava, the judgement in UK is not the same in every country. In Korea, it is quite the same but not surprising, Samsung is a Korean company. But in the USA, in Germany, in Australia, etc... the judgement was for Apple. And Apple own a patent for rectangular with round corner device
<ttoine> http://gizmodo.com/5958762/apple-finally-patents-the-round+cornered-rectangle
<len-dt> I think we should just quietly close all the patent offices. The idea of patenting has failed at it's purpose, therefore declare all patents void.
<astraljava> Well, at least for software. I do understand the original idea for it, though.
<len-dt> In Alberta, Canada, they wanted to stop offering marriage licences because people wanted to be able to marry anyone or just about anything.
<len-dt> It is sort of the same. The patents had a good idea, but the use has gotten warped to a point it has the opposite effect of that intended. Sometimes it is best to start all over.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-11-24
<astraljava> That's a good point.
<zequence> Yea, patents might have been used for spreading technology in the past. Now, it's used for waging wars
<zequence> And creating monopoly
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-11-25
<ttoine> hi
<zequence> ttoine: hello
<ttoine> zequence, what'up ?
<zequence> ttoine: Not much. Got sick and there has been a lot of discounts on steam, so I guess that's what I've been doing for a couple of days now
<ttoine> with the 310 beta nvidia driver, steam games should run well !  is there some best seller available, for Ubuntu ?
<ttoine> zequence, take care of you
<zequence> ttoine: I've only tried the free games for the linux client. Been using wine mostly. And I usually only play old games :)
<ttoine> zequence, ok
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-11-18
<OvenWerks> I may have to wait for tomorrow anyway.
<OvenWerks> knome: FYI Xubuntu's current ISO directory also has old saucy images in it. Am I the first one to download a trusty image?
<zequence> OvenWerks: Could be
<OvenWerks> I left a message in -release
<OvenWerks> zequence: Re: the bottom panel, I can set the bottom panel so that it only activates when the mouse hits the bottom of the screen in the area where the icons are rather than along the whole bottom of the screen.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Well, before making any changes to our source, let's first discuss the direction we want to go with the desktop
<zequence> No one has said, let's create a custom Ubuntu Studio DE based on XFCE yet
<zequence> I mean, yes, it is kind of custom, but not in any big way
<OvenWerks> That way it is impossible to have a user trying to click on an app behind the invisble part of the pannel fail.
<zequence> And, before, we were aiming at doing no customization at all
<zequence> OvenWerks: You could propose these ideas to Xubuntu too, you know
<OvenWerks> OK
<zequence> That way, Ubuntu Studio could just import their setup as is.
<zequence> But, if you feel they don't share your vision at all, let's talk about doing our own. And, we discuss before we make changes
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-11-19
<zequence> ttoine: Hi. I've notived the cup is still available in the shop. Feels bad, since people might be bying it and getting a bad print
<ttoine> zequence, ah
<ttoine> I though I removed it. I might have missed something
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-11-21
<holstein> zequence: question... 
<zequence> holstein: shoot
<holstein> zequence: i was just trying to find our 10.04 version for a confused user
<zequence> holstein: Oh. Did you find it?
<holstein> i found it linked somewhere odd.. let me throw some links here
<holstein> ftp://ftp-hk.tmapy.cz/pub/linux/iso-images/desktop/ubuntu-10.04/ubuntustudio-10.04-alternate-amd64.iso is what i found
<holstein> not official
<zequence> It's not supported anymore AFAIK
<holstein> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ubuntustudio/ is where we couldnt find it
<zequence> ah
<holstein> zequence: i have been addressing that for about 6 pages in IRC
<cub> holstein, that was an impressive chat. :D
<zequence> gimp is more or less unusable for me on saucy. Not sure yet why
<zequence> A lot of functions don't work at all
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-11-22
<OvenWerks> zequence: which functions? I will try them on both studio and kde
<OvenWerks> What things I have used gimp for have worked so far, but I don't do that much...
<zequence> OvenWerks: I'm having problems such as no opacity, and when painting with a color, the result is something else than what I chose
<zequence> There's something not right with the graphics. Don't know if it's only gimp
<zequence> It'
<zequence> It's like I'm having less bits or something
<zequence> opacity is reduced to a boolean function. <50% is visible, >50% becomes invivisible. There's nothing in between
<OvenWerks> I'll check as I have time, with different graphics drivers too (free/not)
<cub> Hi madeinkobaia, sorry I haven't had the time to come back to you about the youtube template. Any day now ...
<cub> zequence, I suppose you've heard/read Howards departure to studies?
<madeinkobaia> no problems cub
<cub> madeinkobaia, did you see that Ubuntu Studio wallpaper for "Start Ubuntu"?
<madeinkobaia> cub, sorry what do you mean ?
<cub> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu and  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=wall_ubuntustudio.png
<cub> Ralf passed it on from the Xubuntu list yesterday
<cub> I forwarded the whole email as well
<madeinkobaia> Ok, get it. Nice job.
<cub> Ok use of the logo?
<madeinkobaia> Graphically that seems ok. 
<cub> alright
<cub> Were you planning to redo the logo for 14.04?
<madeinkobaia> See you all : )
<holstein> i'll mess Howard :/
<holstein> he's good
<holstein> i saw him go from someone nobody knows to someone doing a lot of contributing.. that few know ;)
<cub> yeah, very energetic and ambitious
<zequence> Ah, I just saw it now
<zequence> Yes, school comes first
<zequence> I'll answer tomorrow probably. I'm a bit out of time right now. Don't want to rush a reply
<cub> and at once the trusty failed to build, oh the irony. ;)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-11-17
<OvenWerks> Got this message by PM... I don't do much with blogs so someone who knows what it should look like should check:
<OvenWerks> 09:33 [Ubuntu] [jacekn(~jacekn@ks3308756.kimsufi.com)] I'm one of the sysadmins  working for Canonical. Just wanted to let you know that we migrated  ubuntustudio.org blog to new place. It was 1 to 1 move so nothing should  change for you
<OvenWerks> 09:33 [Ubuntu] [jacekn(~jacekn@ks3308756.kimsufi.com)] but if something is not quite  right please let us know :)
<zequence> OvenWerks: I got that too. 
<zequence> Yeah, seems to be working
<OvenWerks> zequence: I thought that might be the case but wanted to make sure.
<zequence> Yep
<zequence> I'll look into the failed ISO build tomorrow. Some new libav problem, as it seems
<DalekSec> zequence: Cub anywhere close to alive?
<zequence> DalekSec: He's mostly active on the mail list. He got a bit busy with other things for a while.
<DalekSec> OK.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-11-18
<OvenWerks> The new iso is 61% different than the last ISO I have.
<OvenWerks> ETA 140 min...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-11-19
<zequence> OvenWerks: Did you boot it yet?
<OvenWerks> It boots fine, but I have had trouble with install. I am not sure if it is the image or my USB HW.
<OvenWerks> zequence: My first attempt included formatting the partition which failed... or finished but did not continue.
<OvenWerks> I am reinstalling now, but pre-formatted on my normal boot. This seems to be working fine so far.
<OvenWerks> however, The USB stick is plugged into a different socket.
<OvenWerks> Install finished...
<zequence> OvenWerks: I've been having some issues with disk partitioning
<zequence> On wily though
<zequence> Had to use gparted to partition manually, and then run ubiquity
<zequence> Yes, it got stuck on when it was creating the EXT4 file system
<OvenWerks> Installed and booted ok.
<OvenWerks> hmm, the secret to starting jackdbus at session start is to unload the pulse jack bridge first, start jackdbus and then reload the bridge.
<OvenWerks> I was using delays and a pulseaudio -k. which worked for me, but my wife who had "restart applications from the last session" had trouble with skype working right.
<OvenWerks> I like the new qjackctl, it is much easier to use.
<OvenWerks> the "port maximum" defaults to 256. That is probably a mistake as Jackd(bus) defaults to 2048. Qjackctl only allows it to be as high as 1024.
<OvenWerks> There is no reason on a desktop to be less than 2048. (where qjackctl is used) though it could be useful to go less in an embedded setup... where jackd would be started from the command line or script anyway.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Interesting about the pulse jack bridge. We should try get something together on that this cycle
<zequence> Though, at this point, I'm not entirely sure there will be another release :)
<zequence> OvenWerks: What's your thoughts on that? Do you have plans on being project lead?
<OvenWerks> I am thinking about it yes. I will see how this one seems to be going in a week.
<zequence> Vote is in January, so there may be more than one candidate. I'm sure you, like me, are not worried too much who is lead, as long as it's a reasonable fit.
<zequence> I mean, before January, more people might show interest.
<zequence> But, it's good to know you are at least thinking about it.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I am not sure about committing to the next LTS, but I may be willing to do a release and see where life has taken me. I have just retired and am recovering from the physical abuse of the job. It is hard to know what I will be doing in a year.
<OvenWerks> I can load more than one module-jack-sink (or source)
<zequence> OvenWerks: Ok. Well, the LTS will need to have some eyes on it for the following three years, though mostly on paper most probably as it has been except for a few bug fixes we've done.
<OvenWerks> If I do things inteligently enough, I should be able to by default start jackdbus with the default AI, add any other AIs via zita-ajbridge and then bridge those to pulse as well.
<zequence> That would be ideal
<OvenWerks> a config file would allow setting what is default.
<OvenWerks> a config should even be able to set a USB AI that is not plugged in at start up to take over default if/when it is plugged in.
<zequence> Yes, but I could add controls for that. I haven't yet started really working on it. Have lots of unfinished code for controlling jack and pulse.
<zequence> I mean, gui controls.
<OvenWerks> controls should generally make the config file.
<zequence> Yeah
<OvenWerks> It would also do on the fly changes
<zequence> Right
<zequence> What kind of code would you be using for this? bash?
<OvenWerks> changing buffer size can be done on the fly for jack but not zita-ajbridge, those would have to be stopped restarted.
<OvenWerks> The session start script is in bash
<zequence> I've been using python, and there are a couple of alternatives for config libraries, with ready to use classes and functions
<zequence> Ok
<OvenWerks> The GUI can be in whatever.
<zequence> If you like, just work out the functionality, and I could translate that, if needed, to python, and add the config functionality as well
<zequence> I would do the config stuff in python either way
<OvenWerks> Basically the config file just needs Defaultai=hw;USB kinds of things
<OvenWerks> my script starts with:
<zequence> Well, sure.
<OvenWerks> DELAY=1
<OvenWerks> DRIVER=alsa
<OvenWerks> DEV=hw:0
<OvenWerks> RATE=48000
<OvenWerks> FRAME=512
<OvenWerks> PERIOD=2
<OvenWerks> so far.
<zequence> I've been working on a tool I'm calling apt-search for a few days again. It can search for source and binary packages from any active Debian or Ubuntu release
<OvenWerks> After that I will put something that checks if ~/.config/whatever/autojack.cfg is there and include it so it can over write the defaults.
<zequence> So, want to finish that. But, perhaps I can start working on -controls next week. Also need to finish the project lead vote stuff.
<zequence> ..and do whatever work on the wiki to fix things up a bit.
<OvenWerks> That is my problem with doing lead stuff. I am not really well enough rounded. I can see the tech stuff, but not the social/PR side. (I mean much more than social media by social)
<zequence> I've done my best to kind of put things in place so that the next lead won't have to deal too much with organizational stuff
<zequence> I still need to simplify a lot of stuff, I feel
<zequence> With such a small team, it's too much
<OvenWerks> Its not easy for sure.
<zequence> I would like there to be more people involved, and then it makes sense to have a bit of organization
<OvenWerks> :)
<zequence> But, if it's like as is now, could be a lot of that work is for nothing, and you could just wing it
<zequence> I mean, the important stuff is just to get the ISO tested and published, and make sure our metas are healthy. 
<zequence> But, we could do a lot, lot more
<zequence> We, as in if there was more of we
<OvenWerks> :)  yes. I am going to try to be a bit more active this round... 
<OvenWerks> I have just about done all I can with Ardour dev work... But what got me into it is I am building a MIDI/OSC/OCA control surface.
<OvenWerks> I will be spending more time on that as I get parts.
<OvenWerks> I have been using FLTK in c++ so far, but I think I will move to AVTK as that becomes more stable.
<DalekSec> :3
<zequence> Cool
<zequence> OvenWerks: One thing that I really want to get done for controls though is a diagnostic report tool
<zequence> Click a button, and get help anywhere from a paste
<zequence> Also, get help from the diagnostic itself
<OvenWerks> Ardour has a tool that tells what audio devices are available, who has them locked and some things like that.
<OvenWerks> I just found an interesting thing. PA keeps running even after logout
<OvenWerks> So PA tends to be in a wierd state right after login
<OvenWerks> Things that work right after a boot do not work after logout/login, but do work after logout/login as guest/logout/login as user.
<zequence> I know there has been attempts of making it user session only for Desktop systems, but it is also able to do system wide stuff
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-11-20
<OvenWerks> It just seems to be in the one case where going to the login screen stays in the same user frame? Not sure. Using jack-sink/source with no detect allows a lot more options. Such as name in both PA and jack... well no, but in jack at least.
<OvenWerks> When using jack-sink/source it is best to remember the module number that gets returned on load because a named unload, unloads them all.
<OvenWerks> http://www.ovenwerks.net/img/two-audio-devices.png
<OvenWerks> this shows up right away the limitations of this kind of patch bay.
<OvenWerks> This kind of patchbay is really nice for simple connections, but even with one device an a big DAW it gets overloaded real quick
<OvenWerks> however, what I am showing is the devices/connections from session start.
<OvenWerks> From the desktop perspective, both audio interfaces are shown... M66 and AudioPCI are not the most descriptive :) but it matches aplay -l
<OvenWerks> Anyway, there are two i/o devices that show up in both jack and pulse which results in 4 sets of in and four sets of outs.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-11-21
<OvenWerks> DrMr looks nice. It would be a great companion to Hydrogen. Needs packaging though.
<OvenWerks> zequence: here is the command people helping on IRC or where ever should know:
<OvenWerks> cd /tmp && wget  http://jackaudio.org/downloads/adevices.sh && bash ./adevices.sh
<OvenWerks> zequence: we should maybe make that adevices.sh part of our distro for audio trouble shooting. Or take the stuff inside and GUI it as part of controls.
<OvenWerks> Wow, it even shows how far off a second device is from the first. My m66 shows up as 48000 but my AudioPCI is 48662.07 it says.
<OvenWerks> QASmixer has a nicer icon for the systray. It is unique, the old one was the same as the Audio one we have already.
<OvenWerks> Ardour 4.4.0 is one of the better versions (4.2.0 had a few bigger problems)
<OvenWerks> we no longer have jackd 1.9.9  :)
<sakrecoer_> Just realised that FontForge has gotten a serious facelift! :) It's a truley nice project!
<sakrecoer_> They have AWESOME documentation! http://designwithfontforge.com/en-US/Introduction.html
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: can we add a link on our wiki?
<sakrecoer_> OvenWerks: i think it would be a great idea! :) not sure where...
<sakrecoer_> need to get that graphic workflow doc draft done... feel a bit guilty it is taking such time..
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: As you can see from my web page: http://www.ovenwerks.net/about.html I am not much of a visual person. That is why I generally stay away from website design.
<sakrecoer_> OvenWerks: :) well, i for one like olschool html with funky colors! MAkes me feel like i am visiting an actual persons work!
<OvenWerks> zequence: ^^^ is there a place on our web site to add pointers to off site manuals/tutorials?
<sakrecoer_> i will include it in the drafts for graphics, i'm going to try to have teh article covering the graphics workflow by december...
<sakrecoer_> *done* by december..
<OvenWerks> right
<sakrecoer_> feel free to check the spelling so far: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UserGuide/Graphics/draftpage
<sakrecoer_> OvenWerks: there is a link on ubuntustudio.org in the header, for the documentation wiki
<sakrecoer_> and also, do not hesitate in pushing me.... sometimes i need a little whipping to get busy.....
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: a quick a display uses light and so add colours but a print starts with white and takes away colours might help those new to graphics understand why display and print are different.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: other than that the style looks good. I see no spelling mistakes... but I am far from the greatest speller :)
<sakrecoer_> :) good! i have to go for a moment! talk to you soon! :)
<OvenWerks> zequence: If we use zita-a2j and pulse bridging, there should be a way to easily disable it. The reason being that they all interfere with freewheel mode. The result can be that exporting audio in a DAW can end up with xruns.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I may be able to detect if jack goes free wheel... but not if a client tries to free wheel and fails.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-11-22
<zequence> sakrecoer_: OvenWerk1: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/Resources
<zequence> OvenWerk1: freewheel is when processing is not done in realtime?
<OvenWerk1> zequence: yes, freewheel is for non-realtime. This means that no matter how heavy the dsp is it has enough time to finish, though in general an export goes faster in free wheel because most processing _is_ finished faster than needed.
<sakrecoer_> zequence: OvenWerk1 i added the fontforge doc to the page you indictaed zequence :)
<sakrecoer_> can i just sudo apt-get upgrade my 15.10 dev install or should i grab the new iso?
<sakrecoer_> tried sudo do-release-upgrade from this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/InstallDevelopmentRelease
<sakrecoer_> got "No new release found"
<sakrecoer_> i'll give the iso a spin...
<sakrecoer_> after upgrading the devel release of 15.10, i noticed the scirbus icon is still missing....
<sakrecoer_> :/ if it slipped in the official iso, i guess i will have to blame myself for not finding the time to test it
<zequence> sakrecoer_: sudo do-release-upgrade -d
<zequence> I'll fix the page. Forgot to add the -d
<sakrecoer_> zequence: thanks!
<sakrecoer_> so, got the xenial-dev running
<sakrecoer_> scribus icon is absent. but so is scribus... is it because when i learned how to repackage it, it was removed?
<sakrecoer_> apt-get installed it now...
<sakrecoer_> and icon is added.. :)
<sakrecoer_> gimp website links to this tool: http://www.selapa.net/swatchbooker/ it seems to be a bit like agave, but also for print.
<sakrecoer_> anyways... i'll compile a few taughts in an email to the list...
<sakrecoer_> read you soon!
<OvenWerk1> sakrecoer_: I have scribus from ISO install.
<OvenWerk1> (1604)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-11-21
<chamois> Hello everybody!
<eylul> hi chamois
<chamois> What do you think about the latest logo I sent?
<chamois> eylul
<eylul> I am not sure. I personally liked the stars better? (this feels a bit 80s to me :D) other that thinking maybe the contrast of the grid could be less, so as to, again not compete with the logo but both of these are kind of subjective feedbacks
<eylul> (which is why I didn't say anything earlier)
<eylul> :)
<chamois> ahaha. eylul I need other points of view! 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-11-23
<krytarik> In context of  https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2343305 , and the forums staff's reasoning for this, I've asked them if they deem it appropriate to do the same with our dedicated subforum there too, since it's really low-traffic as well - so should benefit both the forums and the users.  If anyone is opposed to this, please speak up.
<krytarik> ..Oh, the reasoning is in another thread, here: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2343728&p=13571828#post13571828
<eylul> krytarik: I would argue that the role of multimedia subforum is different then what ubuntustudio is for. not content consumption, but content creation. thus it is different topics. *drops 2 cents*
<krytarik> eylul: Did you read the topic of that though?
<eylul> I read both topics
<eylul> I am not against the idea of not having an ubuntustudio forum, but multimedia is a different thing than content creation
<krytarik> For everyone else: "The place for your multimedia software questions: everything about using software for audio, video and image editing, display, or viewing and listening. This is also the place for Mythbuntu, or for MythTV installed in a flavour of Ubuntu. There is a dedicated sub-forum for Ubuntu Studio."
<eylul> krytarik that still doesn't change that fact. basic image editing of family photos and discussion of advance topics of physics based materials in 3-D modeling doesn't belong in same forum, and would both mean very basic information and advanced level information different people are looking for would get lost in the din. I am happy to be outvoted through if people disagree.
<krytarik> And as it looks, due to it being a dedicated flavor subforum, they are posting general questions there as well, unrelated to anything just mentioned.
<krytarik> And afaics, we'll then be the only flavor with a dedicated subforum there.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-11-24
<sakrecoer> i lean towards eylul s reasoning, but since it is very low traffic lately, i think a merge can be a good way to blow some fresh air on the fire
<sakrecoer> if it gets cluttered with really hi-tech discussion, like "i just audio mastered this amazing 3D physics with my latest Krita Brush" (lol) then eventualy we could try push for reopening a subforum...?
<sakrecoer> i suppose it would make the mods cringe if we asked, but eventualy if there really are a lot of multimedia tech/production dicsussions they are going to want that themselves...
<sakrecoer> hehe of course i join when everyone is away :D
<eylul> :D
<eylul> ok just a quick note that, the repeat of the informal meeting/check-in will happen Tuesday evening (UTC evening, november 29) instead of sunday. OvenWerks I hope this works better for you? let us know if it doesn't. 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-11-25
<OvenWerks> eylul: I will for sure be available from 2230 on... maybe up till 2130 utc... though my wife may be demanding my attention just before she goes to work :)
<OvenWerks> eylul: if I have a time and can schedule an appointment, that may be better than just "evening" 
<OvenWerks> eylul: 2000UTC is my noon, done before that is best.
<eylul> frankly at least for me before 20:00UTC would work better. Sakrecoer, krytarik? 
<eylul> (22:30 is something like 1am for me)
<OvenWerks> 2000 I will probably be eating lunch with wife.
<eylul> you said before it
<OvenWerks> 1900 would be better
<eylul> Krytarik?, Sakrecoer? 19:00 works? 
<OvenWerks> yup before. ending at 2000 would be fine.
<eylul> 19:00 UTC to clarify (which is 20:00european central)
<OvenWerks> Marked on my calendar for now.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-11-27
<sakrecoer> OvenWerks, eylul krytarik: 19:00 UTC works for me on tuesday!
<cfhowlett> eh, whot?
<eylul> ok I should just email the ML at this point
<sakrecoer> sorry cfhowlett... we were planning a IRC meeting for tuesday at 20.00UTC
<sakrecoer> but yeah, it should go to the mailing list..
<cfhowlett> ahhhhh, lemme put that up on the clock
<sakrecoer> also, very nice mail you sent out cfhowlett 
<sakrecoer> !!!
<cfhowlett> thanks, sak
<sakrecoer> haven't got arround answering it yet.. sorry about that!
<sakrecoer> but since you are here, i think ttoines and eylul's feedback should be taken into account. then feel free to proceed!
<sakrecoer> cfhowlett: ^
<cfhowlett> indeed!
<sakrecoer> eylul and cfhowlett if you haven't already, please share this post: https://www.facebook.com/Ubuntustudio/posts/10154499649330622
<eylul> sure
<eylul> let me email the group first before I forget now that we know the time works at least for you, as lead. 
<sakrecoer> :)
<eylul> sakrecoer: done
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-11-24
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Any chance you could remove calf-ladspa from the seed? New version of calf just dropped (0.90.1 \o/) and calf-ladspa is deprecated per the developer.
<Eickmeyer> ISO failed to build.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I can drop it, but I think the meta needs to have it dropped as well...
<_khipukamayuq_> Hello. Longtime linux user, recently career changed into programming. Interested in assisting with this project. Joined mail list, have Launchpad account. What's next?
<OvenWerks> Welcome _khipukamayuq_ while we normally start people testing iso... there are other things too Eickmeyer has the list better than I do. The main question is what is you itch? what things do you see that could be fixed/changed/added/removed?
<OvenWerks> What kind of creation are you familiar with? Graphics, audio, video?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ross seems to have taken care of it... seems LMMS was to blame.
<_khipukamayuq_> Creative interests are on the audio side. I'm open to learning anything, though.
<OvenWerks> Same here. What style of music creation do you do? I guess what applications do you find useful is the same question :)
<_khipukamayuq_> Most of my experience has been with notation software; TuxGuitar, MuseScore. Only been using UbuntuStudio seriously for about a year. Played around a fair amount with Audacity and a little bit of LMMS, though. Guitarist, mostly, and looking to fool around with SooperLooper, Guitarix/Rakarrack, when I get the time and some more appropriate hardware.
<OvenWerks> so just in time for us to remove LMMS (at least temporarily)
 * OvenWerks would like to see LMMS include LV2 plugin hosting instead of ladspa and VST2
<OvenWerks> _khipukamayuq_: I use mostly Ardour (when I actually get to do some music) I do use guitarix as LV2 plugins. I am not a keyboard player and also don't read music (at least not in real time). So I don't use notation SW as all... and so am not so good at testing it either. Good to have someone who can.
<_khipukamayuq_> Haha, well I can live without LMMS. Isn't Hydrogen similar? And testing some notation things would be great!
<OvenWerks> hydrogen can be made to do similar things. I had always thought of it like a drum machine... then someone did a whole somg with it so I know it can do more
<_khipukamayuq_> Nice. Pushing it to the limit. I like that.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-11-21
<teward> Eickmeyer: I'll rebuild/retest unless it's been uploaded already
<teward> got busy sorry :)
<Eickmeyer> teward: No worries. Same.
<Eickmeyer> teward: And, no, hasn't been uploaded.
<studiobot> <teward001> gonna get to this when i get home tonight
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: cool
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-11-22
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer is this a gitbuildpackage driven repository?
<studiobot> <teward001> because you're missing a LOT of things to recreate without the orig tarball
<studiobot> <teward001> i.e. it's not included in the repo or package
<studiobot> <teward001> also
<studiobot> <teward001> remind me if this is an SRU or not?  Because your 0.8.x tarball isn't available
<studiobot> <teward001> and i may have to manually import it
<studiobot> <teward001> which is pain
<Eickmeyer> Not an SRU.
<Eickmeyer> And... gitbuildpackage? Shouldn't be, I don't use gitbuildpackage.
<Eickmeyer> It has a git submodule.
<Eickmeyer> The original tarball should be in pristine-tar.
<Eickmeyer> @teward001 ^
<Eickmeyer> Actually....
<Eickmeyer> It doesn't have a git submodule. I'm thinking of a different package.
<studiobot> <teward001> well
<studiobot> <teward001> you need to tell me where the original tarballs are then
<studiobot> <teward001> because this has a uscan that points at upstream git
<studiobot> <teward001> and says there's a 1.0.0-alpha1 or 0.8.2
<studiobot> <teward001> also
<studiobot> <teward001> your patch doesn't seem to have anything in it ð
<studiobot> <teward001> somehow
<studiobot> <teward001> maybe it's a bad clone
<Eickmeyer> Let me see...
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer also the branch layout suggests its a gbp or similar - https://git.launchpad.net/raysession?h=master
<Eickmeyer> teward: To get the original tarball: "pristine-tar checkout raysession_0.8.1.orig.tar.gz" That's standard procedure.
<studiobot> <teward001> that's a gbp call
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: That's the way I was taught how to do this.
<studiobot> <teward001> and gbp buildpackage would do that, and it's complaining about 'bad checksum'
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer then the package is a gbp package
<studiobot> <teward001> just saying
<Eickmeyer> Launchpad didn't complain.
<studiobot> <teward001> Launchpad is stupid ð
<Eickmeyer> Did you pull the upstream branch too?
<studiobot> <teward001> yep
<studiobot> <teward001> xdelta3: target window checksum mismatch: XD3_INVALID_INPUT
<Eickmeyer> That's completely bizarre. Launchpad built the package with zero issues.
<Eickmeyer> And, launchpad is the standard we're going by.
<Eickmeyer> Also, my patch isn't empty, so something must be wrong on your end.
<studiobot> <teward001> where did you get the original tarball from?
<studiobot> <teward001> the one included in the package here
<studiobot> <teward001> because i need to do a diff here
<Eickmeyer> https://github.com/Houston4444/raysession
<studiobot> <teward001> tar.gz there you mean
<studiobot> <teward001> for 0.8.1
<studiobot> <teward001> ?
<Eickmeyer> Yes.
<Eickmeyer> Though, now that 0.8.2 is out, I should update to that. I didn't expect him to release a bugfix so quickly.
<studiobot> <teward001> what version of tar do you have on your system?  `tar --version` you're using with your imports.
<Eickmeyer> I'd have to check, I'm not on that system right now, nor can I easily check. It's whatever is included in eoan.
<studiobot> <teward001> ah this explains the discrepancy
<studiobot> <teward001> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=897653 is what i'm running into
<ubottu> Debian bug 897653 in tar "tar 1.30 breaks pristine-tar" [Grave,Fixed]
<studiobot> <teward001> 1.30+ breaks older tar imports :P
<Eickmeyer> Oh, fml.
<studiobot> <teward001> Launchpad's probably patched
<studiobot> <teward001> but Ubuntu generally might not be for older envs.
<Eickmeyer> Likely.
<studiobot> <teward001> give me 1 minute
<studiobot> <teward001> *does evil and backports things*
<Eickmeyer> LOL
<studiobot> <teward001> thank you backportpackage tool
<studiobot> <teward001> ... and PPAs.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @teward001 Any luck?
<studiobot> <teward001> gotta install the backport lol
<studiobot> <teward001> patience
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> No worries.
<studiobot> <teward001> um....
<studiobot> <teward001> small problem
<studiobot> <teward001> the 'file' being altered?
<studiobot> <teward001> doesn't exist
<studiobot> <teward001> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jYS8QC7Z5R/
<studiobot> <teward001> so i'm not sure HOW this passed on LP
<studiobot> <teward001> hmmmm
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer I'm going to need a second set of eyes, I'll ask infinity, rbasak, or someone else on the release team to take a look
<studiobot> <teward001> it's possible your patch is not compliant or doable
<studiobot> <teward001> at least, based on debuild's output
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Ok, I'll take a look.
<studiobot> <teward001> fails in sbuild and in pdebuild
<studiobot> <teward001> and there's no version release with the link patch i think
<studiobot> <teward001> so the hard link is 'stuck' I think
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Which patch?
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> The link patch?
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Nm, that's what you said.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> That is completely weird. It shouldn't have even built for me if that's the case.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Yet, I got a build from debuild -S and it uploaded and built just fine in my PPA.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I think I see the problem.
<studiobot> <teward001> well i git cloned and then used it locally.  I'll do more tests
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Well, it might be a path issue.
<studiobot> <teward001> possibly
<studiobot> <teward001> but i'mma test a Focal env just in case
<studiobot> <teward001> see if debuild gives me the same warns
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Ok. I just pushed a change to my patch, give that a shot if all else fails.
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> I noticed a discrepency between the paths in the other patch and this one.
<studiobot> <teward001> nope still fails
<studiobot> <teward001> from a git clone
<studiobot> <teward001> it fails because the symlink is bad and isn't cloned down it seems
<studiobot> <teward001> so i'll have to do this old school :?
<studiobot> <teward001> nope *still* fails
<studiobot> <teward001> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ZydhwhC5d4/
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> *sigh*
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Might be that upstream has to fix the issue first.
<studiobot> <teward001> So, not just me.  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/87c7YDmN4T/
<studiobot> <teward001> yeah I think upstream has to
<studiobot> <teward001> i'll talk to infinity and others tomorrow in #ubuntu-devel on IRC to ask them if they can provide a solution to fix the unsafe symlink issue
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> OK
<studiobot> <teward001> it might be possible to just hand-wave 0.8.1 without the symlink patch in because we can't patch it
<studiobot> <teward001> but that's a decision above me
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> Ok, keep me posted.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-11-24
<Eickmeyer> teward: I created a raysession.links file, which will override the unsafe link. However, lintian still throws the error. Is this something that should be overridden?
<Eickmeyer> (everything has been pushed, including updating to 0.8.2
<Eickmeyer> Actually, it's fixed upstream (https://github.com/Houston4444/RaySession/blob/master/src/bin/ray_control), so I don't know why the error is even throwing.
<Eickmeyer> Ah, that's why. It's only a recent fix, after release.
<Eickmeyer> I'll ask if he wants to do a 0.8.3 release, which would fix this entire issue.
