#ubuntu-discuss 2012-06-25
<AlanBell> I will do a blog post later introducing this channel
<AlanBell> jussi: any luck with ubot5 and the planet feed?
<jussi> AlanBell: been at work all day, havent had a chance to look at it. later...
<IdleOne> welcome zykotick9 :)
<zykotick9> ;) hey.
<IdleOne> like I said in PM this channel is new and still quiet but it could use some love from nice people who want to talk about interesting ubuntu stuff without random off topic stuff
<IdleOne> feel free to idle here :)
<ubot5> Announcement from my owner (jussi): #ubuntu-discuss can-voices
<jussi> doh
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Launchpad News: Creating teams on demand || Daniel Holbach: A few days as an ARB helper || Martin Pitt: PyGObject 3.3.3 released || RaphaÃ«l Hertzog: Test Driven Development with CppUTest, now in Debian || Andrea Colangelo: Talks at ConfSL || Valorie Zimmerman: BoFs at Akademy || Jim Kielman: Ubuntu +1 (Quantal Quetzal) Sub-forum update for June 25/12 || Ubuntu Ohio - Burning Circle: Burning Circle Episode 75 || Robert Col
<jussi> getting somewhere...
<IdleOne> jussi: how often will that spam?
<jussi> now links, less items and boldness, as well as timing...
<jussi> @config supybot.plugins.RSS.waitPeriod
<ubot5> 1800
<jussi> looks like 1800 seconds I guess
<jussi> IdleOne: suggest a better value?
<jussi> @rss planetubuntu
<ubot5> Launchpad News: Creating teams on demand || Daniel Holbach: A few days as an ARB helper || Martin Pitt: PyGObject 3.3.3 released || RaphaÃ«l Hertzog: Test Driven Development with CppUTest, now in Debian || Andrea Colangelo: Talks at ConfSL || Valorie Zimmerman: BoFs at Akademy || Jim Kielman: Ubuntu +1 (Quantal Quetzal) Sub-forum update for June 25/12 || Ubuntu Ohio - Burning Circle: Burning Circle (5 more messages)
<IdleOne> jussi: that would be every 3 hours?
<jussi> mrgh. why no links :/
<jussi> IdleOne: I think so
<IdleOne> sounds good
<jussi> it looks horrible, but it works
<jussi> Heya jono :D
<jono> howdy!
<IdleOne> Welcome
<Nytelife> thx
<IdleOne> Talk about Ubuntu all you like in here and remember to keep it family friendly
<IdleOne> !guidelines
<ubot5> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<Pecker> so who is dling warty right now (other than me)
<AlanBell> heh
<IdleOne> hehe
<AlanBell> that is retro
<IdleOne> you know, I have never tried warty
<IdleOne> I started at 5.04
<AlanBell> don't think I did either, think it may have been 5.10 for me
<IdleOne> on PPC at that
<Pecker> I started on 8.10
<Pecker> but i wanna see what was different in 2004
<IdleOne> aside from the colour not much
<Pecker> lol yeah
<Pecker> whos idea was it to go purple
<Pecker> everyone i know whos uses ubuntu misses bthe orange
<AlanBell> well it was brown that was the colour
<AlanBell> now it is aubergine and Ubuntu community orange
<AlanBell> which is #dd4814
<IdleOne> Can I go to Home Depot and buy a gallon of Ubuntu orange?
<Pecker> rofl
<IdleOne> that would be awesome
<AlanBell> dunno if they can match to a hex code
<IdleOne> I think I might try asking them if they can later today
<AlanBell> I was just looking up what I was doing when I started using Ubuntu and came across this
<AlanBell> http://web.archive.org/web/20070608135420/http://www.dominux.co.uk/dominuxblog.nsf/plinks/ABEL-69GSDS
<AlanBell> I think I started with 5.10 and handed out a bunch of CDs at an IBM/Lotus conference in January 2006
<AlanBell> then again, it might have been 2005
<pleia2> huh, 4.10 actually must have been my first (I created my ubuntuforums.org account the day I first tried it, March 12th 2005, that was 4.10 time)
<pleia2> but I was still firmly in Debian land for a couple more years
<AlanBell> yeah, I handed out CDs on 24th January 2005, so that must have been 4.10 Warty
<popey> wow you look so _young_!
<AlanBell> the years have not been kind
<popey> neither have all the days and months!
<IdleOne> hah
<AlanBell> harsh but fair
<IdleOne> I am glad there are no pics of me in the webernets from when i was younger
 * pleia2 hands out fountain of youth passes
<pleia2> (some day people will stop thinking I'm 20)
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Martin Owens: Project Watch <http://doctormo.org/2012/06/25/project-watch/>
<AlanBell> \o/
<DJones> Sheesh, I can't get away from people from my home town that went to school at the same time as me (doctormo)
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Martin Owens: Heartbeat Indicator <http://doctormo.org/2012/06/25/heartbeat-indicator/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Norman Garcia: We are waiting for you! <http://elchipote.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/we-are-waiting-for-you/>
<h00k> I see what you did there
<AlanBell> hi h00k
<h00k> Hello, AlanBell
<AlanBell> http://ubottu.com/ircc/2012/06/25/join-the-discussion-in-ubuntu-discuss/
<AlanBell> though I guess the bot will announce that in a few minutes anyhow
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: IRC Council: Join the discussion in #ubuntu-discuss <http://ubottu.com/ircc/2012/06/25/join-the-discussion-in-ubuntu-discuss/>
<AlanBell> yay
<ikonia> I assume that was your blog post ?
<AlanBell> it was
<ikonia> you don't mess around
<IdleOne> AlanBell: that is indeed a lovely kitten pic
<AlanBell> oi, kittens are offtopic ;)
<IdleOne> not in this case because I was only refering to them due to your blog post
 * IdleOne refrains from talking kittens any longer.
 * h00k refrains from taking kittens any longer.
<IdleOne> Would be good if the news team could recommend some ubuntu related rss feeds
<cym13> +1
<AlanBell> the weekly news has just been published it seems
<h00k> IdleOne: Planet Ubuntu
<IdleOne> h00k: bot already has that one
<h00k> IdleOne: it's true.
<Tm_T> I like the "for high quality" on the topic
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Tony Whitmore: Why do Instagram photos work? <http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/06/25/why-do-instagram-photos-work/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=why-do-instagram-photos-work> || The Fridge: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 271 <http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/06/25/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-271/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-271>
<IdleOne> jussi: appears the bot is posting every hour which in my opinion might be a little too often
<cym13> IdleOne: how often would you like ?
<AlanBell> it posts when there are posts to post
<cym13> I don't think that it's as simple as that, this post is maybe an hour oldâ¦
<cym13> But I'd like to know how exactly it does.
<AlanBell> yeah, it does look hourly, but I guess it won't say anything if there are no posts in that time window
<cym13> +1
<IdleOne> Well I thought it was going to be every 3 hours
<IdleOne> still working out the kinks I guess
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-06-26
<imnichol> is there a good area for complaining that none of the developer.ubuntu.com tutorials have any comments in them?
<pleia2> I'm not sure I'd recommend a place "to complain" but the app developer folks can be found in #ubuntu-app-devel and I'm sure they'd be open to suggestions for improvement on the site :)
<pleia2> there's also a launchpad project for the site, where you can submit bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntudeveloperportal
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Paul Tagliamonte: desktop-base uploaded to unstable <http://blog.pault.ag/post/25899646325>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jono Bacon: Ubuntu App Showdown: Gallery Of Progress <http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/26/ubuntu-app-showdown-gallery-of-progress/>
<AlanBell> some nice looking applications there, I am quite impressed
<bkerensa> gnight folks
<joris_> for a discussion channel it sure is quiet
<toddy> joris_: yes, you are right. :D
<joris_> so toddy, let's discuss something
<toddy> joris_: do you sell discussion topics for ubuntu? :)
<joris_> yes but they are open source so you can modify them if you want
<joris_> let me just think of a few topics...
<toddy> oh thats fine
<joris_> 1: what is needed to get businesses interested in open source and ubuntu
<toddy> 1: A good solution for their business.
<AlanBell> joris_: my job is implementing open source stuff for businesses
<joris_> what kind of stuff?
<AlanBell> mostly server applications running on Ubuntu
<AlanBell> vtiger and OpenERP are the big ones for us, but also Alfresco and Joomla!
<AlanBell> we use Ubuntu on the desktop, customers generally don't yet
<joris_> products are one thing, is open source meeting enterprise demand for stability and support?
<AlanBell> but they do see us using it and they can see it is useable
<AlanBell> well yeah, we provide support
<AlanBell> stability is pretty solid
<joris_> also functional and implementation support?
<AlanBell> yeah
<joris_> in what region?
<AlanBell> we are UK based
<AlanBell> I would like customers to use Ubuntu more, but desktop migrations are kind of expensive and you end up back where you started, with a desktop that works
<joris_> i think we have a enormous opportunity now
<joris_> windows 8 is a radical shift from xp and 7, business could be searching for alternatives
<AlanBell> yeah, could be
<joris_> so what problems and opportunities do you see for starting businesses if they looking at using open source as their desktop, groupware etc
<AlanBell> there is a lack of integration with Ubuntu server I think
<AlanBell> though the Zentyal partnership thing is a good move yesterday
<AlanBell> http://blog.canonical.com/2012/06/25/helping-zentyal-offer-an-open-source-alternative-for-small-businesses/
<joris_> in what area? something like groupware or managing domains?
<AlanBell> well kind of everything
<joris_> (looks great btw)
<AlanBell> what I think it should do is you set up your Ubuntu server with all the services you want, like email, calendaring, CRM etc
<AlanBell> then you install an Ubuntu desktop and the installer asks for your username and password to the Ubuntu server it just discovered by avahi
<ikonia> AlanBell: how is that compatible with other solutions, eg: exchange, thunderbird/sunbird, evolution, lotus
<AlanBell> then it sets you all up with email, browser bookmarks the lot
<ikonia> (specfically calandering)
<AlanBell> ical works
<AlanBell> tbh we use thunderbird with google calendar as our calendaring server
<AlanBell> then it works to android without any fuss
<ikonia> AlanBell: one of the strongest gripes I hit on, is the lack of compatability with things like exchange meeting requests and calandering
<AlanBell> I get meeting requests that I reply to and add to the calendar
<AlanBell> they grow special buttons
<joris_> my first reaction is kind of the same: setting up a mailserver? why not google calendar for businesses? guess the cloud is easier for businesses
<ikonia> AlanBell: this is not some of the small businesses I have visited are finding
<ikonia> joris_: not everyone wants to depend on public services
<AlanBell> joris_: so your Ubuntu server should know that you are using google apps for domains and configure services to point there as appropriate
<ikonia> joris_: not everyone wants to use google accounts for core business functionality
<joris_> ikonia: obviously not, but for a small startup it saves the cost of a dedicated it departement
<ikonia> you shouldn't need a dedicated department
<ikonia> even for a small business
<ikonia> it just needs a solid initial setup
<joris_> that initial setup is kind of a barrier for startups, be it IT or financial stuff
<ikonia> yes
<ikonia> it's a cost not many are willing to accept
<ikonia> and often end up spending more post setup fixing issues
<joris_> ?
<ikonia> not spending the money to get a good initial setup will often end up in a bigger spend in $X months time fixing the sloppy initial setup when business is up and running and depends on those services
<joris_> (sorry, i did something in xchat, so i'm missing your previous comments)
<ikonia> not to worry, it's certainly not important
<joris_> yup
 * AlanBell goes back to working on a customer's vtiger system
<joris_> AlanBell: tnx for your comments
<joris_> ikonia: if we just take an average office based company of say 10 people, what is needed and how can open source fill those needs?
<ikonia> depends on their setup/needs/budget
<ikonia> there is no set solution
<joris_> let's say desktops + email + calendar + word processing + spreadsheet
<ikonia> there are many desktop options, email clients, email servers, calander servers/clients, there are a few office suites of various quality/stability/functionality/long term solution
<ikonia> it's just working with the people to find the software that best suits their needs
<joris_> so that seems to me the first hurdle: choice
<joris_> and with that comes compatibility: not everything works nicely together out of the box
<ikonia> and that's way you hire experience for the initial setup
<joris_> do you know if that kind of support is comparible in price and function to a microsoft shop?
<ikonia> it varies from supplier to supplier and deal to deal
<ikonia> most small businesses will use small multi-vendor-style single stop support
<ikonia> rather than offical vendor support
<ikonia> bespoke support packages etc, so it will vary
<AlanBell> we also resell official vendor support
<AlanBell> this kind of stuff http://www.openerp.com/catalog/146
<AlanBell> and this http://www.canonical.com/enterprise-services/ubuntu-advantage/support
<joris_> AlanBell: are those prices and support comparible to microsoft shops?
<ikonia> that's software, not OS
<ikonia> it's unfair to say a specialist support package in openerp at 1900 euros against say a 350 euro exchange support deal, they are different scales of software
<AlanBell> joris_: yeah, but we are are not competing against Microsoft mostly
<AlanBell> compare it to a SAP contract
<joris_> ikonia: what do you mean different scales?
<joris_> ah ok
<AlanBell> generally if you get support from a small IT firm that happens to be an MS partner (most are) then getting support from a small IT firm that isn't (like us) will be comparible prices
<AlanBell> I used to do IBM/Lotus stuff, now I do Free software. I charge clients for my time just the same as I used to. My clients just have more money to spend as it isn't going on bits of paper telling them how many seats they can use
<joris_> right
<AlanBell> I should put my prices up really
<joris_> you should, you're famous
<joris_> i work at a qa firm in holland, and i see no implementation or demand for open source, except for technical stuff like servers and sometimes middleware
<joris_> and i'm trying to know if the reason for this lack of demand is because supply is lacking
<ikonia> for a lot of people it's not a viable desktop option for their role
<AlanBell> joris_: ISO 9000 kind of QA stuff?
<joris_> AlanBell: yes kind of, functional testing, requirements, reviews, stuff like that
<joris_> mostly on custom software for big companies
<joris_> custom software in big companies means no room for open source, except in servers, libraries, stuff like that
<AlanBell> ok, one of our OpenERP customers is doing an internal audit this week and as a result we need to change a few of the reports to match their procedures
<joris_> so customization of openerp
<joris_> btw, i'd like to help out in qa/testing for ubuntu or opensource, but i don't know where to start
<AlanBell> we have quite a big testing infrastructure
<AlanBell> #ubuntu-testing is I think the main IRC channel for it
<joris_> unit, regression, manual?
<joris_> i'll check that channel later
<joris_> brb
<AlanBell> all sorts
<AlanBell> balloons is the person to tell you all about it
<joris_> anyway enough about testing and businesses
<joris_> discussionpoint nr 2: should we try to get all users interested in the community and teach them about the freedoms of free software, or should we focus on getting people to use free software
<ikonia> no
<ikonia> it's their choice to be as involved as they want
<ikonia> let people choose what they want to use based on their own reasons
<joris_> so you don't want to teach people the unvisible benefits of using foss?
<ikonia> if they are intested you can show how it may / may not benifit them
<ikonia> but finding random people to push it on them doesn't appeal to me
<joris_> i'm thinking more about the 'this is open source' introduction when first using firefox
<joris_> afk: lunch
<ikonia> people don't want that in my view
<ikonia> they want a web browser
<ikonia> not a lecuture because they use a web browser
<ikonia> people want a solution, not knowledge
<chu> How pragmatic of you ikonia.
<chu> (I agree by the way)
<toddy> I agree, too
<zykotick9> ikonia: "people want a solution, not knowledge" so that's what's wrong with people in irc ;)
<ikonia> zykotick9: as good as a blame as any
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu Kernel Team: Kernel Team Meeting Minutes â June 26, 2012 <http://voices.canonical.com/kernelteam/2012/06/26/kernel-team-meeting-minutes-june-26-2012/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Rohan Garg: A update! <http://kshadeslayer.wordpress.com/2012/06/26/a-update/>
<TheLordOfTime> Greetings!
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Bodhi.Zazen: command line spell checking <http://blog.bodhizazen.net/linux/command-line-spell-checking/> || Rohan Garg: Looking for a job <http://kshadeslayer.wordpress.com/2012/06/26/looking-for-a-job/> || Ubuntu Kernel Team: [Quantal] linux kernel 3.5.0-2.2 uploaded (ABI Bump) <http://voices.canonical.com/kernelteam/2012/06/26/quantal-linux-kernel-3-5-0-2-2-uploaded-abi-bump/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Nicholas Skaggs: Call for Testing: 12.10 kernel on 12.04 <http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/06/call-for-testing-1210-kernel-on-1204.html>
<AlanBell> that sounds fun
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Robbie Williamson: PSA: Is your Ubuntu Server IaaS Guest Image Authentic? <http://undacuvabrutha.wordpress.com/2012/06/26/psa-is-your-ubuntu-server-iaas-guest-image-authentic/>
<MrChrisDruif> What sounds fun AlanBell ?
<MrChrisDruif> Aloha TheLordOfTime
<AlanBell> backported kernels
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Nathan Haines: Final Ubuntu Hour Lake Forest, June 28 <http://nhaines.livejournal.com/66820.html>
<bbartek> I would like to report a bug about Software Centre but I would like to know who to contact first to discuss this problem
<bbartek> I made a payment for software Â´Journey DownÂ´
<bbartek> The payment was succesfull
<bbartek> The software wasnÂ´t installed on my computer ...
<bbartek> When I try to install the software it trys to make me pay again for the software ...
<bbartek> Sorry for my bad english :-)
<AlanBell> hi bbartek that sounds a bit annoying
<bbartek> Hi AlanBell :-)
 * AlanBell goes to look up where that kind of query goes
<bbartek> Thx for listening
<AlanBell> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Pay/FAQs
<bbartek> Thx iÂ´ll look at this
<AlanBell> bbartek: I expect support is during UK working hours
<AlanBell> you can file a bug any time though
<bbartek>  https://pay.ubuntu.com/payment/  this site tells me the purchase is Â´pendingÂ´. For Braid it is Â´completedÂ´
<bbartek> Braid was succesfully installed. Journey Down isnÂ´t
<bbartek> Bizar, Braid installed itself directly after the payment was succesfull. Why is it Â´PendingÂ´? The info told me the payment was succesfull ...
<AlanBell> sorry, I have absolutely no clue, never looked at that stuff myself
<bbartek> Do you know who i can contact to discuss this problem?
<bbartek> There is no contact info on the pay.ubuntu.com website :-(
<bbartek> Thx for helping me AlanBell. Your link to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Pay/FAQs was helpfull.
<bbartek> The software is still pending so maybe there is a problem with the payment (not Canonical related) If the money goes of my account IÂ´l find someone to help me at Canonical. If the money is not transfered IÂ´ll try to buy the software again.
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-06-27
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jorge Castro: Zentyal commercial support available <http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/06/26/zentyal-support-now-available/>
<sam-c> on security?
<sam-c> Is ubuntu Quantel Alpha as safe as ubuntu Precise 12.04 LTS ? at presnt??
<jussi> sam-c: I seriously doubt it
<scout1340793703> ciao a tutti!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<oCean> zykotick9: how come you think Ubuntu is cutting edge?
<oCean> I haven't had a crash or non-working device in years (litteraly)
<oCean> Which I frequently do have using fedora for example :p
<Jagst3r15> so i want to rant about ubuntu and updates
<oCean> rant?
<oCean> it is -discuss
<zykotick9> oCean: comparing package age of ubuntu to enterprise grade distros like debian or RHEL and you'll see a HUGE difference
 * AlanBell checks for updates on quantal
<oCean> oh right, that is true, but those have an entirely different market
<DJones> Jagst3r15: As the topic says, no ranting here please
<zykotick9> oCean: also, if you want stable - i'd look elsewhere then ubuntu
<Jagst3r15> sorry i meant discuss
<oCean> zykotick9: actually, in my experience - no. Ubuntu has been stable for me on 3 different lap/desktops and various servers
<AlanBell> stable can mean "doesn't change much" which is the debian meaning of it, or "doesn't crash lots" which isn't the Microsoft definition
<zykotick9> oCean: i used to think ubuntu was stable - but it breaks a lot...  just look at #ubuntu for examples of that
<Jagst3r15> dont you think its a problem that canonical wants to release ubuntu on stuff like dell computers - seems kind of problematic to include LTS distros on them when alot of software is out of date
<AlanBell> I find Ubuntu pretty solid, unity used to be flakey but now it is much better
<AlanBell> Jagst3r15: not much in 12.04 is out of date
<Jagst3r15> yes but just wait a year or two, right?
<zykotick9> oCean: compared to old-school gentoo (where i came from) - ubuntu is a rock ;)
<AlanBell> firefox and thunderbird will be up to date, kernels will be backported too
<oCean> zykotick9: I think the larger part of issues mentioned in #ubuntu channel are because of users that want exotic stuff (i.e. non-standard)
<AlanBell> libreoffice as well I think
<Jagst3r15> i also dont understand why chrome isnt allowed in the software center
<DJones> Jagst3r15: But thats one of the "benefits" of an LTS, packages will change, if you want later, newer packages, you do get the option to upgrade every 6 months anyway
<AlanBell> chromium-browser is
<Jagst3r15> not chromium, but google chrome - they have an official distro
<Jagst3r15> google chrome is better IMO
<AlanBell> which is non-free
<oCean> Last weekend I bought a brand new "ultrabook", booted from Xubuntu USB, 15 minutes later everything (graphics, sound, wireless, bluetooth) worked
<zykotick9> oCean: agreed.  there is a "user" element to MANY of the issues.  but general updates on ubuntu do break more then they should.
<DJones> I thought Chrome wasn't included because google had their own distribution system & their own repo which keeps it under their own control
<oCean> zykotick9: I still have to experience that, really. An update breaking anything for me
<oCean> zykotick9: granted, I do not use Unity
<Jagst3r15> DJones I think your right
<oCean> so, no experience there
<Jagst3r15> oCean what do you use then?
<oCean> xubuntu, xfce
<Jagst3r15> oh i c
<Jagst3r15> so when 12.10 is release do all of the things in the software center recive an upgrade?
<oCean> no
<DJones> I only use one app that consistently crashes and thats installed from a ppa, everything else in a default ubuntu install including unity has been rock solid for me
<oCean> !sru | Jagst3r15
<ubot5> Jagst3r15: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Jagst3r15> thanks
<Jagst3r15> forigive me I am a noob and am tryint to understand how it works :)
<oCean> Jagst3r15: not considered a noob at all.
<oCean> I wonder how difficult it would be to combine stable and latest releases. I mean, give the user a choice to tick the box "gimme al the latest" or (by default) only stable updates
<oCean> (I don't know very much about that process and the possibilities)
<Jagst3r15> i think skype will get update
<Jagst3r15> because microsoft is like a partner?
<Jagst3r15> oCean is xubuntu updated frewuently?
<Jagst3r15> every six months right
<oCean> Jagst3r15: it is exactly as ubuntu, only that it uses XFCE, not Gnome/Unity.
<oCean> It uses same repositories etc
<Jagst3r15> ahh so its like a wordpress theme u can just change in and out
<oCean> well, almost
<oCean> there are more: KDE (Kubuntu) and LXDE (Lubuntu) for example
<Jagst3r15>  ah
<Jagst3r15> oCean what is the term for updated repos?
<Jagst3r15> is that PPA?
<Jagst3r15> its like ones maintained by others
<Jagst3r15> not ubuntu official ones
<oCean> !ppa
<ubot5> A Personal Package Archive (PPA) can provide alternate software not normally available in the offical Ubuntu repositories - Looking for a PPA? See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas - WARNING: PPAs are unsupported third-party packages, and you use them at your own risk. See also !addppa and !ppa-purge
<Jagst3r15> ahh thanks
<oCean> As it says "3rd party packages" So no guarantees
<Jagst3r15> but if its like from google.com its probably cool?
<Jagst3r15> like chrome
<oCean> well, you could do a little research on the PPA, how often it is used/updated etc. But still, even a stable PPA might cause issues in the future. With "no guarantees" I mean that the maintainers of those PPA's have no obligation to keep updating their software
<Jagst3r15> oh i c
<Jagst3r15> thanks for help oCean. I am off to lunch
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jonathan Ernst: Solar oven crowdfunding for Ifaty, Madagascar <http://ernstfamily.ch/jonathan/2012/06/solar-cooker/>
<Jagst3r15> for ubuntu 12.10 what does it mean that it will include a vanilla version of gnome as an option ?
<AlanBell> Jagst3r15: it means a version without patches to make it more ubuntuish
<AlanBell> and all the bits of gnome
<Jagst3r15> AlanBell u know where i can find a list of the Main - Officially supported software?
<Jagst3r15> as per https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu
<AlanBell> http://packages.ubuntu.com/
<Jagst3r15> how would i see a list of officially supported ones
<Jagst3r15> i.e. ones that are continuously updates like firefox
<AlanBell> ah, that is different
<AlanBell> officially supported ones are everything in main
<AlanBell> as in they get updates by canonical
<Jagst3r15> where would i see that?
<Jagst3r15> like a list
<AlanBell> the other bits (universe,multiverse,restricted) can get updates from the community, but not so many
<AlanBell> generally supported means they keep those versions going
<AlanBell> does not mean they drop in new versions with new features, just bug fixes
<Jagst3r15> ones in main recieve new features tho?
<AlanBell> no
<Jagst3r15> how come firefox is same version as one for windows then
<AlanBell> there are a very small number of packages with strong upstreams where new versions are updated
<AlanBell> like really really small
<Jagst3r15> oh like under 10? like that small
<AlanBell> like I am not sure if it is anything other than firefox
<Jagst3r15> maybe gedit and libreoffice?
<AlanBell> not gedit
<AlanBell> ati and nvidia binary drivers might get updates
<Jagst3r15> oh itsjust coincidence that its the same version
<Jagst3r15> because last version of gedit was early april and 12.04 was released in april
<AlanBell> yeah
<Jagst3r15> someone told me that it was firecly deabted about having everything with strong upstreams
<Jagst3r15> but they decided on stable release instead of rolling
<AlanBell> yes, however the development version of Ubuntu (Quantal at the moment) is basically a rolling release
<Jagst3r15> until they freeze it?
<AlanBell> they have changed things to make it more likely that it basically works every day
<AlanBell> yeah, until freeze, then you can upgrade again to the latest crack
<Jagst3r15> cuz dont they freeze it before they are gonna release stable
<Jagst3r15> ah
<Jagst3r15> i cant get past the fact that they dont update programs in software center
<Jagst3r15> bothers me
<AlanBell> final freeze is only a week or two before release (and it isn't *that* frozen)
<AlanBell> depends how they are in software centre and who updates them
<IdleOne> Ubuntu aims for stability that is why not every applications is the latest version
<Jagst3r15> true but for something like chromium
<Jagst3r15> its already a version behind
<Jagst3r15> two years from now it will be really behind
<Jagst3r15> if u use LTS
<AlanBell> and works just fine
<Jagst3r15> im not saying its a problem for me particularly
<Jagst3r15> but for users who buy a laptop from dell like they do in inida now
<IdleOne> security updates are added and they do point releases for LTS which means apps like chromium could be upgraded to newer versions
<Jagst3r15> is it up to the package maintaner to release a newer version or do they hve to get canoinical approval
<IdleOne> I am not sure how that gets decided
<IdleOne> maybe AlanBell knows
<Jagst3r15> again im not complaining, just trying to think whats best for ubuntu and users who dont know about this kind of stuff
<AlanBell> it varies
<AlanBell> for apps that go in via the app review board they can get updates whenever
<Jagst3r15> whats an example of that
<AlanBell> for stuff that is in the main repositories then updates sometimes go via debian first
<AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/
<Jagst3r15> doesnt debian have rolling release
<Jagst3r15>  AlanBell im also asking because i see there are alot of paid apps
<Jagst3r15> and ud think they would need new features
<AlanBell> no, debian doesn't have rolling release, they have the same kind of strategy, but they only release when they feel like it, not on a regular basis. The stable version of Debian can be very old.
<AlanBell> paid apps get updates I think, they are not in the main repositories
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Matthew Helmke: VMware Cookbook, second edition <http://matthewhelmke.net/2012/06/vmware-cookbook-second-edition/>
<Pecker> Why does unity have so much overhead?
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Nicholas Skaggs: Bleeding Orange and Purple <http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/06/bleeding-orange-and-purple.html>
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-06-28
<Jagst3r15> AlanBell are backports safe?
<Jagst3r15> or anyone
<IdleOne> provided they are coming from the official repos they are as safe as they can be
<Jagst3r15> so if the ones in the ubuntu software center are 100% safe the backports are like 90%?
<Jagst3r15> just to ballpark it
<Jagst3r15> there are barely any packages in the backports anyways
<IdleOne> depends what you mean by safe
<IdleOne> if you mean free from malware, backdoors... yes they are.
<IdleOne> free from bugs, possibly.
<Jagst3r15> its kind of a nonargument for me tho
<Jagst3r15> since there are not even any backport packages that i use in there
<Jagst3r15> only a bunch of weird ones
<Jagst3r15> IdleOne do paid apps get feature updates in LTS?
<IdleOne> you would have to ask Canonical but probably do
<IdleOne> or ask the devs of the app
<Jagst3r15> k ty
<Jagst3r15> is ubuntu one open source?
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Edubuntu: Deployments Page <http://edubuntu.org/2012-06-27/deployments-page>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jono Bacon: Ubuntu Accomplishments Team Meeting <http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/28/ubuntu-accomplishments-team-meeting/>
 * jussi waves to popey
 * DJones discontinues jussi's wave, Oh no, sorry that was Google
<jussi> lol
<jussi> DJones: have you anything broken on your ubuntu today?
<DJones> Sadly, I'm in work so having to use windows until about 6:30 tonight, so not done anything with my laptop
<DJones> Should I anticipate something (12.04)?
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jamal Fanaian: No such pipe, or this pipe has been deleted
<AlanBell> err, that is a fail
 * AlanBell wonders whether to remove the feed from Jamal Fanaian
<DJones> I didn't look at that, just saw the description, didn't notice the lack of link & thought it was going to be a blog post about the "|" being removed from Ubuntu
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: AurÃ©lien GÃ¢teau: Walking the Extra Mile <http://agateau.com/2012/06/28/walking-the-extra-mile/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Brandon Holtsclaw: Ubuntu Developer App Showdown Widget! <http://www.brandonholtsclaw.com/blog/2012/ubuntu-dev-app-showdown-widget>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Benjamin Kerensa: Help Wanted: Chromium PPAâs for Ubuntu <http://benjaminkerensa.com/2012/06/28/help-wanted-chromium-ppas-for-ubuntu>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: The Fridge: 12.10 (Quantal Quetzal) Alpha 2 Released! <http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/06/28/12-10-quantal-quetzal-alpha-2-released/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=12-10-quantal-quetzal-alpha-2-released>
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-06-29
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: JuliÃ¡n AlarcÃ³n: Instalacion de Icinga 1.7.1 en Ubuntu 12.04
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Xubuntu: Xubuntu 12.10 alpha 2 released <http://xubuntu.org/news/quantalalpha2/>
<FatalError> hello everyone
<FatalError> I have a wierd feeling today
<AlanBell> hi FatalError
<FatalError> that ubuntu 9.10 is faster than 11.04 on my notebook
<FatalError> maybe I just have to clean up the hard drive and do some tuning
<AlanBell> I got a new SSD and did a fresh install of precise (12.04) and it is like a new computer
<FatalError> I use ubuntu for learning, because it does not has that much games :D
<AlanBell> I don't really play games but it seems there are more games on the way for Ubuntu
<FatalError> I can see it too
<FatalError> game developers  start to care about other operating systems
<FatalError> well, because ubuntu is a success
<FatalError> I kinda miss good-old gnome
<FatalError> not gnome3
<FatalError> because of gnome-do
<AlanBell> gnome-session-fallback is rather good
<AlanBell> but not in 11.04
<AlanBell> in 12.04 it is really good
<FatalError> I have it on my PC, it's just working great!
<FatalError> I really hope that Adobe is going to fix some Flash Player issues for Linux
<AlanBell> they won't
<AlanBell> they have given up, it was always dreadful code
<AlanBell> I think they might do an update for chromium, but for firefox it is the end of the line for flash
<FatalError> This is probably the only reason why I dualboot ubuntu and windows
<FatalError> I love to play some 3D Browser games
<AlanBell> webgl is the way forward for 3d browser stuff
<FatalError> because they are cross-platform and not that heavy as client ones
<AlanBell> can flash do 3d?
<FatalError> yes
<FatalError> For now, flah is a bit ahead of webgl
<FatalError> but by watching how fast webgl improves itself, I guess it will get better for sure
<AlanBell> at least it is possible to write stuff that outputs webgl
<FatalError> true
<AlanBell> I can do a 3d visualisation of a dataset from some system using webgl
<AlanBell> I used to do that a bit with vrml
<FatalError> I think that youtube is switching to html5
<FatalError> Chromium web cache is ridiculous
<FatalError> I had no space left on my hard drive
<FatalError> then I cleared the browsing data
<FatalError> and I got 5 Gigabytes of free space
<FatalError> got to go
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ubuntu App Developer Blog: Ubuntu App Showdown Week 2 Wrap-Up <http://developer.ubuntu.com/2012/06/ubuntu-app-showdown-week-2-wrap-up/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: JuliÃ¡n AlarcÃ³n: Instalacion de Zenoss 3.2.1 en Ubuntu 12.04
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Barneedhar: Ask Ubuntu update for June 2012 <http://unbrokenspectrum.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/ask-ubuntu-update-for-june-2012/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Launchpad News: Meet Jelmer Vernooij of the blue squad <http://blog.launchpad.net/meet-the-devs/meet-jelmer-vernooij-of-the-blue-squad>
<bodhi_zazen> Oh new channel
<Sidewinder> :-)
<Sidewinder> I am in the process of reading and trying {unsuccessfully, so far} to digest this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035445.html
<Sidewinder> And what's more, the actual ramifications..
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Daniel Holbach: Be part of the Ubuntu Apps Sprint <http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/2012/06/be-part-of-the-ubuntu-apps-sprint/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=be-part-of-the-ubuntu-apps-sprint>
<AlanBell> hi bodhi_zazen and Sidewinder
<Sidewinder> Good Afternoon AlanBell.
<AlanBell> secure boot is going to be a bit of a mess
<AlanBell> http://al.robotfuzz.com/ some really good articles on it (and howtos) here
<Sidewinder> AlanBell, Thank you very much for the above; they'll certainly go on my list of "items for perusal." :)
<IdleOne> Sidewinder: could you please join #ubuntu-ops when you have a minute.
<Sidewinder> Certainly... Joining now..
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Aaron Toponce: Network Gotcha <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/pthree/~3/miqE3JjGomM/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Ronnie Tucker: Full Circle Magazine #62 has arrived! <http://fullcirclemagazine.org/2012/06/29/full-circle-magazine-62-has-arrived/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Stuart Langridge: Put the chocolate on the moose <http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/06/29/put-the-chocolate-on-the-moose>
<MrChrisDruif> Poor sil
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jo Shields: How to build a bungalowâ¦ begin with the chimney <http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/442/>
<bkerensa> So has anyone installed OpenPhoto on their Ubuntu servers yet? :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-06-30
<Jagst3r15> so it goes: Linux > Debian =/> Ubuntu > GNOME =/> UNITY ?
<TheLordOfTime> uh...
<TheLordOfTime> what?
<Jagst3r15> nvm lool
<IdleOne> it goes, UBUNTU.!
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Eric Hammond: Which EC2 Availability Zone is Affected by an Outage? <http://feeds.alestic.com/~r/alestic-planetubuntu/~3/YHZ4-V46k10/ec2-outage-availability-zone>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Didier Roche: Android ICS on wetab (exopc slate)! <http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Android-ICS-on-wetab-%28exopc-slate%29%21>
<AlanBell> I am just installing cyanogenmod right now, but I would rather be installing Ubuntu
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Andrea Veri: Nagios IRC Notifications <http://blogs.gnome.org/woody/2012/06/30/nagios-irc-notifications/>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Benjamin Kerensa: Reflecting on Netflix, Instagram, Pinterest Downtime <http://benjaminkerensa.com/2012/06/30/reflecting-on-netflix-instagram-pinterest-downtime>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Matthew Helmke: The Official Ubuntu Book, seventh edition <http://matthewhelmke.net/2012/06/the-official-ubuntu-book-seventh-edition/> || Leandro GÃ³mez: DebCamp -1 <http://leogg.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/debcamp-1/>
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-07-01
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Timo Jyrinki: Where computing takes you... <http://losca.blogspot.com/2012/07/where-computing-takes-you.html>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Jonathan Riddell: Akademy 2012 in Pictures <http://blogs.kde.org/node/4583>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Cyril Lavier: Debian Wheezy has been frozen <http://www.davromaniak.eu/index.php?post/2012/07/01/Debian-Wheezy-has-been-frozen>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Maia Grotepass: Jo'burg Ubuntu Hour and CDs across the country <http://my-ubuntu-day.blogspot.com/2012/07/joburg-ubuntu-hour-and-cds-across.html>
<ubot5> New news from planetubuntu: Lucas Nussbaum: Introducing the Debian Maintainer Dashboard â help needed! <http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/blog/?p=722>
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-06-23
<NPoulin02> Hi, I would like to know why so much people hate Unity as a DE ?
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-06-29
<picko> Hi -need to install Ubuntu on a headless, keyboardless computer, without physical network, but with a usb wifi stick.
<picko> anyone have experience on this stuff?
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-06-22
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lordievader> o/
<lordievader> How are you, BluesKaj?
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader, fine thanks, and you ?
<lordievader> Doing good, setting up a Linux server for my parents.
<BluesKaj> cool , what do they think of Linux other than as a server?
<lordievader> Err, they know it is an operating system and that I use it. I think that is about all they know ;)
<BluesKaj> I see, that's understandable
<lordievader> Yeah. When I talked about how I was going to set it up they lost me after the first couple of words :P
<lordievader> Though I think my father did understand the more important parts.
<lordievader> Was trying to explain raid1 to him.
<BluesKaj> using raid , so several drives on the server then
<lordievader> Just two.
<lordievader> Of different sizes actually, the first is 1Tb the other 2.5Tb. So there is 1Tb in raid one and 1.5Tb as a "single drive".
<OerHeks> awesome :-)
<lordievader> The install process was quite long as I didn't want to delete the existing data ;)
<lordievader> Moving all the data to one drive, repartitioning the then empty drive, then moving everything back and repartitioning the other drive.
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<lordievader> o/
<lotuspsychje> hi lordievader
<OerHeks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: hello mate
<lotuspsychje> whats new
<OerHeks> where were you @ 06:00 am ?
<OerHeks> :-D
<lotuspsychje> lol, in the city!
<OerHeks> oh, i was in bed
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/Someone-Tries-to-Sell-Ubuntu-GNOME-Linux-OS-on-Craigslist-for-30-484867.shtml
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: hi mate how r you
<BluesKaj> good thanks lotuspsychje, how about you ?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: great fine tnx
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: good afternoon mate
<EriC^^> afternoon lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: car is in the garage right now
<EriC^^> i was looking for a part today and i saw the old alternator and i remembered you
<lotuspsychje> waiting for news about it :p
<EriC^^> :D
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> well isnt that sweet!
<EriC^^> haha
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> ill think about you when i see an old bmw aswell
<lotuspsychje> i just like oldtimers
<lotuspsychje> the shape of cars is far more original, then what they invent now
<EriC^^> yeah bro
<EriC^^> it's not THAT old though, it's a 87
<EriC^^> oldtimer is like a 2002ti i guess
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: your known worldwide! http://askubuntu.com/questions/639223/problem-with-controller-from-a-local-manufactor-on-15-04
<lotuspsychje> lol lol
<OerHeks> lotuspsychje, yeah, i am the master of no-brand-joypads
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: you can reset bios passwords with software?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: yes
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> specialized bootcd's out there
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> it has to have the cd first in the boot order though right?
<lotuspsychje> yes
<EriC^^> still cool though
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: http://www.askvg.com/how-to-reset-remove-bypass-a-bios-or-cmos-password/
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: thanks
<lotuspsychje> every week another ubuntu laptop shows up :p
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/entroware-s-apollo-is-a-superb-white-laptop-powered-by-ubuntu-and-ubuntu-mate-484925.shtml
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> but nobody puts in ssd's almost :p
<lotuspsychje> thats where i come in
<lotuspsychje> oh you can select samsung evo's in the configurator
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: the garage called
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: its the starter that what broken, he's pluggin an old one in
<lotuspsychje> *was
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> will be cheaper :p
<EriC^^> i thought it was turning off by itself while driving?
<EriC^^> yeah sure
<lotuspsychje> bbl :p
<lotuspsychje> we getting the car
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: A belated note of appreciation for your attempts last night on that cloned hard drive booting issue. I have to wonder how much of the difficulty is "operator error" .
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: no problem, i don't know what was going on, i think the user posted earlier about it and honestly i didn't catch much
<EriC^^> wolftune> EriC^^: just a note: I ended up reinstalling OS, now I am back to working, also discovered that it *was* main drive problem and it was a loose connection because of broken screw housing
<EriC^^> wolftune> EriC^^: I attached the broken housing to the screw so it's like a nut and at least should be much better than before, system is working today
<EriC^^> anyways it's working so i guess it's all good :)
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: ^^ just goes to show, never can tell .
<OerHeks> :-)
 * OerHeks spammed for this channel in #u
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-06-23
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> good morning EriC^^ and histo
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<histo> hola
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: the car costs: 100 for the 2nd hand starter, 140 euro to drag the car to garage
<EriC^^> damn, costs more to drag it there
<lotuspsychje> yep, it was 50km
<EriC^^> anyways not bad over all
<EriC^^> it's working now?
<lotuspsychje> wel we cant buy a new car for it right
<lotuspsychje> yeah working like a charm :p:p
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> used parts for sure for these stuff
<lotuspsychje> well this is one of the only garages left that uses used parts in the region
<lotuspsychje> pretty handy to lower costs
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> yeah
<lotuspsychje> he says start cost double normally
<lotuspsychje> would that be true?
<lotuspsychje> 200 euro for starter?
<EriC^^> no idea
<EriC^^> depends on the country too
<lotuspsychje> right
<histo> wow sounds pricey
<histo> what kind of car?
<lotuspsychje> histo: nissan almera 1400cc 97
<histo> ahh
<histo> was the starter completely dead or just the coil?
<lotuspsychje> complete dead, car didnt make a sound anymore when turning the key
<EriC^^> my money's still on the automatic of the starter
<EriC^^> those go like nuts, car makes a little "tick" when they go
<lotuspsychje> cars...always a costs
<lotuspsychje> we gonna by an E-bike both when we move to the city!
<lotuspsychje> 6000 euro for 2 e bikes that drive 45km/h
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> and i hear there's already an ebike that can go 75/km
<lotuspsychje> but it cant be sold in my country and costs 15000 euro lol
<EriC^^> wow
<lotuspsychje> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgXGgcSRGyA
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<lotuspsychje> thats crazy
<EriC^^> thats scary
<EriC^^> i like how he pedals while overtaking cars
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> i wanna see the faces of the car drivers, when i bike crosses their cars lol
<EriC^^> yeah haha
<EriC^^> do they save that much more money compared to a gas bike?
<lotuspsychje> yeah the most recent models are crazy nice
<lotuspsychje> if you pay 3000, bike can go like 150km anatomy
<lotuspsychje> 45/h speed
<lotuspsychje> and load up battery pretty fast
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: most ppl combine it also with sunpanels on their homes, to save money
<EriC^^> oh
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> gas bikes are not ecologic to enviroment, so i guess those will be eol soon
<lotuspsychje> but of course when can say that for cars too right
<EriC^^> yeah thats true
<EriC^^> eol :D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: this is life and worldwide support .. :p
<lotuspsychje> !life
<ubot5> life is something very few people know about in this channel - and anyway, it's probably offtopic, perhaps you want to try #ubuntu-offtopic
<lotuspsychje> oO
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> found a new linux pro 850 boot time:
<lotuspsychje> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sUk7nlniaE
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> ill try to make my own boot time startup, when starting the ubuntu store
<EriC^^> man arch boots in like 4 secs maybe
<lotuspsychje> would be nice to sell pc's with the speed/ease of tablets right
<EriC^^> i'll make a vid mayeb, in the bathroom right now though
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: your on ssd aswell?
<EriC^^> nope, it's on a usb O.o
<EriC^^> imagine a ssd
<lotuspsychje> usb?
<lotuspsychje> your chatting in the bathroom lol
<lotuspsychje> you lost me now
<EriC^^> lol
 * histo runs Arch on ssd
<lotuspsychje> we gonna plug a pro 850 inside hiso's arch system and he will boot 1 sec
<lotuspsychje> histo
<lotuspsychje> ohh
<histo> on a 6 year old laptop
<lotuspsychje> wich brand histo
<histo> Acer Aspire 7736
<lotuspsychje> no i mean the ssd brand sorry
<histo> Oh cheap Sandisk
<lotuspsychje> great
<lotuspsychje> i have desktop upstairs with 8 gig old transcend SLC with ubuntu 14.04 64 bit on amd 3200+
<lotuspsychje> boots in 5 sec lol
<lotuspsychje> old or not, ubuntu handles ssd's fantastic
<histo> Yeah I was blown away the first boot with this SSD
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> sudo halt almost instantly right
<histo> Yeah i'm upset I waited so long to buy an ssd
<lotuspsychje> great investment for a pc
<lotuspsychje> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsHLTbM_4ps
<lotuspsychje> what the...
<EriC^^> mine's about that fast on a usb though
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: explain the usb part?
<EriC^^> it's on a flash drive man
<EriC^^> 16gb usb
<lotuspsychje> you installed ubuntu portable on stick you mean?
<EriC^^> no, arch is installed on the usb
<lotuspsychje> ah
<EriC^^> ubuntu on the laptop as usual
<lotuspsychje> usb 3.0?
<EriC^^> yeah, but i dont think it matters much
<EriC^^> cause i dont know which port is 3.0 here
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: and with what purpose you use arch portable?
<EriC^^> and they all seem to transfer the same
<histo> EriC^^: not loading as much bloat
<lotuspsychje> chroot jobs on the go?
<EriC^^> no purpose i like the os
<lotuspsychje> cool!
<EriC^^> i saw a usb the other day 3.0 and 16gb for like $10 or so, had to get it
<EriC^^> and i installed arch to it, had it in a vm before
<lotuspsychje> has arch become more GUI friendly for noobs these days?
<EriC^^> it's same as ubuntu gui wise, you can use any de
<lotuspsychje> nice
<EriC^^> but arch is different in its ways i guess
<histo> lotuspsychje: no the install isn't friendly at all to newbies
<EriC^^> yeah
<lotuspsychje> ah, then il keep to ubuntu for the store for sure
<histo> It's not hard to get through it though. Just follow the beginners guide on the wiki
<EriC^^> yeah the wiki is very well explained
<histo> I'd fire up a vm and just run through it. See if it's something you like
<lotuspsychje> i played with arch back in the days
<lotuspsychje> and pentesting from arch aswell
<lotuspsychje> and other variants of arch, something with saw.. cant recall
<histo> probably manjaro or crunchbang
<lotuspsychje> hmm no its long time ago
<lotuspsychje> sawfish?
<lotuspsychje> !info sawfish
<ubot5> sawfish (source: sawfish): window manager for X11. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:1.5.3-2.4 (vivid), package size 224 kB, installed size 993 kB
<lotuspsychje> lol, it was an arch distro with sawfish inside i think
<histo> ahh
<lotuspsychje> blackarch looks nice :p
<lotuspsychje> maybe ill boost that1 up my usb stick :p
<lotuspsychje> pentesting on the go
<EriC^^> ill brb
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: decided to boot into arch and update it
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: nice!
<EriC^^> sometimes it hangs though for a bit, do you think it's cause it's on a usb?
<EriC^^> like i'll open something and the whole os freezes for a bit then continues
<lotuspsychje> yeah usb cant handle speeds like hd/ssd
<lotuspsychje> usb bottlenecks
<EriC^^> oh ok makes sense
<histo> EriC^^: yeah usb
<histo> what de are you running?
<EriC^^> xfce
<histo> +1
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<lordievader> Good morning.
<histo> Stupid thunderstorm, cut my multirotor flying short
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon :p
<EriC^^> afternoon lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: hello :p
<EriC^^> man it's so hot here
<lotuspsychje> where are you?
<EriC^^> lebanon
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: how many degrees is that
<EriC^^> phone says 27'c
<lotuspsychje> wow
<EriC^^> it feels way hotter though
<lotuspsychje> in belgium we have many cold summers : (
<lotuspsychje> wanna trade :p
<EriC^^> how cold
<lotuspsychje> well summers are mostly rainy with sometimes till 30 degrees max for few days
<lotuspsychje> then back to 24 degrees
<lotuspsychje> right now its cold wind, 18 degrees and rainy
<EriC^^> am i misspelling belgium ?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: is ubuntu popular in lebanon?
<EriC^^> http://www.weather.com/weather/today/l/33.89,35.50?lat=33.89&lon=35.50&locale=en_US&temp=f
<lotuspsychje> no, your correct EriC^^
<EriC^^> nah i know only one other dude who uses ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> lolll thought so!
<lotuspsychje> our country is chocolats, lace and belgian waffles
<lotuspsychje> oh and frites
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: whats your guys speciality?
<EriC^^> tabbouli, kafta, hommos i guess
<EriC^^> shawarma
<lotuspsychje> tabbouleh is a grain dish right?
<lotuspsychje> like couscous?
<lotuspsychje> kafta and hommos never heard of that
<EriC^^> https://reciperhapsody.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/tabouli-2-9-11.jpg
<EriC^^> it's like a salad
<EriC^^> hommos is well known i guess, i see it a lot in movies
<lotuspsychje> yummy
<EriC^^> actually that tabouli sucks
<cfhowlett> hummus
<EriC^^> the green stuff should be way tinier
<lotuspsychje> ahh tnx cfhowlett
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: whats your speciality in china?
<lotuspsychje> hummus i know
<cfhowlett> beijing duck.  delicious, but too much for 1 person to enjoy and doesn't taste as good when re-warmed.  gotta bring a friend!
 * lotuspsychje likes all kinds of special food
<lotuspsychje> mmm i lick duck very much
<lotuspsychje> like
<lotuspsychje> oO
 * EriC^^ has a sudden urge for duck with tabbouli on the side
<cfhowlett> phrasing!!
<EriC^^> never tasted duck
<lotuspsychje> thats the most nice meat ever
<lotuspsychje> with organge saus duck mmm
<lotuspsychje> or bejing sauce also good
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: you were one character away from
<lotuspsychje> donald duck?
<EriC^^> no i mean the other phrase
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: you started with taking a movie in your bathroom!!
<EriC^^> movie?
<EriC^^> lol wtf
<EriC^^> :P
<lotuspsychje> you dais that this morning :p
<lotuspsychje> said
<EriC^^> nah i said i was in the bathroom, i'll take a video later maybe
<EriC^^> :P
<EriC^^> ( of arch booting, in case cfhowlett is wondering what's going on )
 * cfhowlett is totally confused and scared to comment
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: <EriC^^> i'll make a vid mayeb, in the bathroom right now though
<lotuspsychje> loool
<lotuspsychje> at 7h08
<EriC^^> i meant later :P
<lotuspsychje> yeah yeah
<lotuspsychje> haha
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: you skared him away
<EriC^^> lol you helped
<lotuspsychje> :p
<EriC^^> :p
<lotuspsychje> this is also a national dish from belgium
<lotuspsychje> http://static2.koken.vtm.be/sites/koken.vtm.be/files/recipe/image/2015/03/witloofrolletjes.jpg
<lotuspsychje> chicory with cheese sauce and mashed patatoes
<EriC^^> looks yummy
<lotuspsychje> it sure is
<BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje, EriC^^
<EriC^^> i love cheese
<lotuspsychje> kafta looks nice aswell!
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: hello mate how r you today
<EriC^^> and mashed potatos
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> good thanks, lotuspsychje , how about you?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: whats your national dish?
<BluesKaj> dunno if Canada has one
<lotuspsychje> grizzly steak?
<lotuspsychje> :p
<EriC^^> i was thinking snow
<EriC^^> :p
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i dont think you can eat now
<lotuspsychje> snow
<BluesKaj> my family is swedish background , so my fav is meatballs and potatoes
<lotuspsychje> mmm sounds nice
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> scandinavian countrys are very nice
<lotuspsychje> traveled norway long time ago
<lotuspsychje> and im crazy on japanese food
<BluesKaj> dunno much about japanese food ..but if I was offered sushi , i'd have to find a way to politely decline
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: well i must agree, i wouldnt try all sushi's
<EriC^^> is japanese food spicey?
<lotuspsychje> like fish eggs or alive frog sushi...i would decline too
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: besides the wasabi, not really
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: you like spicy?
<EriC^^> nope
<EriC^^> can't eat it
<BluesKaj> uncured raw fish is not to my taste
<lotuspsychje> i hear that spicy food is good in warm countrys
<lotuspsychje> to resist the heat
<lotuspsychje> i like little spice, but not too much
<BluesKaj> I like some spices, but not if it overwhelms the palate
<lotuspsychje> tasted indian curry once, and burned my mouth for 30min, couldnt finish my meal after
<lotuspsychje> yeah thats what i mean BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> there's aspicy peppers eating contest in texas that rates the hotness on some kind of scale..it's crazy how hotsome of these peppers taste
<lotuspsychje> yeah can imagine..
<lotuspsychje> it burns in every corner of your body afterwards
<BluesKaj> think they can damage your stomach etc
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: mm the kofta google pics look yummy, never had those
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: yeah might be dangerous to eat those peppers daily
<lotuspsychje> brb
<BluesKaj> yup
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: cool
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: i'm making some food, i got real hungry
<EriC^^> cause of all the food talk
<lotuspsychje> loool
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: at wich time are you expecting me?
<lotuspsychje> :p
 * lotuspsychje is hungry too
<EriC^^> lol
 * BluesKaj is oing have an early lunch
<BluesKaj> er going
<EriC^> lotuspsychje: you're welcome any time bro
<lotuspsychje> il remember that, when i come to lebanon one day!
<EriC^> ;)
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: hi mate
<OerHeks> hi lotus
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-06-24
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/06/meizu-mx4-ubuntu-edition-goes-on-sale-june-25
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: o/
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: hello mate
<lotuspsychje> how r u
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Me, I am just struggling right on alone . You and your world ?
<lotuspsychje> lol, all ok here mate tnx
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: You are here, so things much better. Means my shift is about at an end.
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: enter the twilight zone mate, im taking over fate of mankind!
<Bashing-om> that's the spirit !
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje_> morning EriC^
<EriC^> morning lotuspsychje_
<lotuspsychje_> all ok in lebanon?
<EriC^> yup
<EriC^> in belgium?
<lotuspsychje_> great
<lotuspsychje_> we gonna watch some houses today
<lotuspsychje_> to move closer to city
<EriC^> cool
<Bashing-om> Guys, calling it. Leaving in your hands .
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: hi lordie
<lotuspsychje> sunshine outside finally
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, still grey here.
<lotuspsychje> oh : (
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/meizu-mx4-ubuntu-edition-launches-europe-on-june-25-with-just-299-485123.shtml
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: hi mate
<BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
<MonkeyDust> this is neat: on this website, type 'play new wave' or so... unlimited and free music!    cmd.fm
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-06-25
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> schlerpM: hello
<schlerpM> Hi
<lotuspsychje> schlerpM: you can check the ircd version loaded in the MOTD from a network you connect i think
<lotuspsychje> schlerpM: most ircd's build their own custom ircd for safety reasons
<schlerpM> Ahh I see!
<schlerpM> I have never used ircd until yesterday
<schlerpM> *irc
<lotuspsychje> schlerpM: wich one did you test?
<schlerpM> None yet!
<schlerpM> Was think ircd-hybrid and kiwiirc as a front end that I could just give less tech savvy colleagues the link to
<lotuspsychje> schlerpM: its pretty complicated with leaf or server layout
<lotuspsychje> you need to compile an ircd as server first
<schlerpM> Yeah would you recommend and starting points for me?
<lotuspsychje> then compile few leaf ircd's
<lotuspsychje> because if one server splits, you can rely on the other ircd's
<schlerpM> Ahhh I see!
<lotuspsychje> schlerpM: are you gonna host yourself, or get an ircd hosting?
<schlerpM> It's all going to be internal to our network and hosted from a vps
<schlerpM> That's my plan anyway
<lotuspsychje> schlerpM: from your own vps, or a vps rental?
<schlerpM> I rent a vps
<schlerpM> Linode
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> right
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: hello mate :p
<lotuspsychje> schlerpM: i strongly advise to rend specialized ircd hosting company
<lotuspsychje> schlerpM: their cheap, got support and anti-ddos
<lotuspsychje> schlerpM: with own vps, you will get bottlenecks for sure
<schlerpM> Ahh I see!
<lotuspsychje> schlerpM: because other data will flow on your vps right
<schlerpM> I'm talking about setting up a network for about 30 people max just for internal discussions in out office tbh
<schlerpM> Nah this is my spare vps I was talking about
<lotuspsychje> schlerpM: hmm okay
<lotuspsychje> schlerpM: for 30 users, you can do this
<lotuspsychje> server-leaf
<lotuspsychje> 2 ircd's
<lotuspsychje> linked to each other
<schlerpM> Yep
<schlerpM> And what ircd software would you suggest lotuspsychje?
<lotuspsychje> schlerpM: unrealircd would do the trick for less users
<lotuspsychje> https://www.unrealircd.org/
<schlerpM> Ahh I was recommended that yesterday
<schlerpM> Thank you lotuspsychje !
<lotuspsychje> no sweat
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<EriC^^> afternoon lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> how's the house hunting going?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: hello mate, your following me at 15h22?
<EriC^^> nah i just logged on
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: we found a small house for hire
<lotuspsychje> me too
<EriC^^> haven't put it in the favorites yet
<EriC^^> cause it autoconnects sometimes and it starts disconnecting
<lotuspsychje> the owner needs to aprove first
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> how much?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: yeah ive seen you ping timeout sometimes
<EriC^^> yeah it does the max send thing
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: what kind of isp speeds in lebanon?
<EriC^^> it's ok, it's 23mbps i think
<lotuspsychje> nice
<EriC^^> i use another connection sometimes which is a local guy who gives wireless net
<EriC^^> he uses wep so it was too easy
<EriC^^> :D
<lotuspsychje> thank you neighbour :p
<EriC^^> not my neighbor, it's a local distributor
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> wouldn't use my neighbor's
<EriC^^> i'm serious, he distributes to the area, and has his phone number you call he gives you the pass i guess
<EriC^^> but it's slow as heck
<lotuspsychje> just good to irc :p
<EriC^^> so it's my backup connection :P
<EriC^^> yeah, i use it when i'm out of download traffic on the other one, between recharges or if i wanna download something huge and leave it overnight or something
<lotuspsychje> i cant complain here: vdsl2 50mbit without data limit
<EriC^^> there's another one which i think is faster, he has like 4-5 ssid's and i've seen his shop in the area
<EriC^^> but he uses wpa2, i gave it a crack once but it'd take i think 1 week to go over all numbers 10digits
<EriC^^> so i said screw it
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> wep takes like 10mins to crack
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^, the lebanon h4cker
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> this ain't h4cking :P
<lotuspsychje> its debatable :p
<EriC^^> anyways no harm no foul, he isn't going to miss the traffic
<EriC^^> it baffles me that he still uses wep though
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/introducing-the-unofficial-whatsapp-client-for-linux-mac-and-windows-485195.shtml
<lotuspsychje> wep is a pain indeed
<EriC^^> i think he gave the customers the password a long time ago, and never switched to wpa2 when wep got easy to crack
<lordievader> Hehe... Wep.
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/proteus-from-entroware-is-a-powerful-gaming-laptop-running-ubuntu-and-ubuntu-mate-485261.shtml
<OerHeks> mate has got a boutique, some sort of webshop?
<OerHeks> https://ubuntu-mate.boutique/
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> nice stuff
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu machines show up everywhere
<EriC^^> http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/12/tesla-model-s-owners-hack-their-cars-find-ubuntu/
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> sudo drive-me-home
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> thats crazy
<EriC^^> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/Google-s-Self-Driving-Cars-Are-Powered-by-Ubuntu-382360.shtml
<EriC^^> this is for real
<EriC^^> it seriously drives by itself
<EriC^^> :D
<OerHeks> oh, i would bet it was redhat with Kubernetes with http://www.zdnet.com/article/red-hat-rolls-out-container-based-openshift-enterprise-3-cloud/
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-06-26
<histo> daftykins: ??
<histo> daftykins: he was just trying to boot from usb. He has no idea what he's doing.
<histo> So now he's off on some tangent trying to get the usb to boot from grub rather than the bios. He also has yet to reveal why he is trying to reinstall in the first place.
<daftykins> silly ideas like 'keyboard lag' as i see above
<daftykins> i know the situation :)
<daftykins> likely gonna give up though, this is the kind of youngster that can't help themselves
<OerHeks> the only thing i can think of, just reading back, is that he has fastboot enabled, that can prevent seeing usb devices.
<daftykins> i don't know if Windows was mentioned at all, might not be a dualboot
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: http://www.basicincome.org/news/2015/06/finland-new-government-commits-to-a-basic-income-experiment/
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> good morning EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/watch-ubuntu-15-04-running-on-microsoft-s-surface-pro-3-tablet-485349.shtml
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> dont like surface myself, but hey better have ubuntu on it anyways
<lotuspsychje> bbl see you laterz
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<daftykins> heya o/
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/222k7jecohmd13b/AABqemkMg4icFEf0Jzjbaj2Ta?dl=0
<daftykins> aww yes just put a new screen on a Samsung Galaxy S3
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: wow did that yourself?
<daftykins> yes sir-ee, it's really simple with this model to be honest
<daftykins> well, the little narrow strip cable there had to be very carefully teased out
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> a friend once gave me an iPhone 4 he'd taken apart whilst high - and said "have fun" :)
<lotuspsychje> i rather like the rougher hardware fixxing
<daftykins> using ifixit guides i managed to measure and place all the important screws, then put it back together \o/
<daftykins> oh these ones are definitely rage inducing
<daftykins> i can't tolerate speaking to anyone whilst working, i just go nuts :D
<daftykins> aaah i love the thrill of fixing things :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<daftykins> i've got a friends of the exact same model here so i can do that one next
<lotuspsychje> $$$$$
<daftykins> different colour models are different prices XD
<daftykins> well, sadly not so much
<lotuspsychje> you be the next smasung helpdesk :p
<daftykins> these S3s can be bought for Â£100 new now, the screens are costing Â£48
<daftykins> i'd rather see it working than thrown away though really
<lotuspsychje> big business, i worked in mediamarkt, 90% breaks phone glass
<lotuspsychje> girls goto bathroom with it= broke
<daftykins> oh? gave it up?
<lotuspsychje> steam inside the phone
<daftykins> haha
<lotuspsychje> yep my collegues were nasty windows freaks
<lotuspsychje> and i loved to help ppl with ubutnu installs
<daftykins> everyone i work for is tied into MS Outlook so couldn't hop platform really
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<daftykins> and i don't use desktop Linux so i'd never put ubuntu in for anyone
<lotuspsychje> im gonna make a difference with my ubuntu store for sure
<daftykins> i think every OS has problems, but you can't really be a jack of all trades... gotta pick one to focus on
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: i had to recover win8 boxes all the time and they needed 2 days n nights running updates
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu:30min
<lotuspsychje> and you got fresh install + updates
<OerHeks> updating windows, that alone costs the company many hours :-D
<daftykins> i see your point there, but now given the hassles of flash 'support' in Firefox, life's gotten pretty messy
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: +1
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: if flash reall dies, html5 will raise higher
<daftykins> nah my mate works for a school up in England, he's got it set so a clean build can be deployed over the network with Office installed in 30 mins
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: yeah, can't happen soon enough
<daftykins> but sadly for the time being some sites are still behind
<daftykins> i've got xubuntu on that old laptop, runs nicely - but i had to install nautilus to be able to right click and share dropbox links from files
<MonkeyDust> 15.10 alpha 1... runningin vmware...
<daftykins> then i had to install chromium and pepperflash for normal sites to work
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: nice, saw that on omgubuntu, hows wily :p
<daftykins> bit personal ;)
<MonkeyDust> wily is ok and sends greetings
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> !willy
<ubot5> It is spelt !wiLy :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<daftykins> =]
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/watch-ubuntu-15-04-running-on-microsoft-s-surface-pro-3-tablet-485349.shtml
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: my hope for Windows 10 with this funny rolling release idea, is that they'll release regular ISOs that are more up to date so the whole patching chain doesn't continue
<daftykins> 'cause i agree, 8 was absolutely atrocious - though i mostly avoided it due to being an absolute lemon of an OS anyway :)
<lotuspsychje> 10 will be surely another previous windows clone
<lotuspsychje> with lighter feeling
<daftykins> i've been playing with the preview, it's faster than even 7 in general usage O_O
<daftykins> a real pleasant change
<daftykins> in fact i should boot up my test PC here with the preview on
<MonkeyDust> i liked windows 10 too, but my old laptop/vmware couldnt handle it after 2 build upgrades
<daftykins> how so?
<daftykins> ran slowly?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: alive?
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Sure, why not?
<MonkeyDust> yes, and heating issues...
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: TJ- has some issues about hd's and virtual machines, wanna listen to him?
<lordievader> Go ahead.
<daftykins> hey that's a fellow helper right? should join here
<lotuspsychje> yep invited him :p
<daftykins> cool
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: can you re-ask your issue to lordievader plz?
<daftykins> TJ-: welcome o/
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: and welcome here, we have gathered the 'good guys' volunteers here :p
 * lordievader is back in a bit
<MonkeyDust> nothing remarkable so far, in 15.10...
<TJ-> trying to find a way to simulate 4K sized sector devices for testing tooling, but not found a way outside of using a VM, which is not a usable solution for mastering images on such simulated devices
<TJ->  I've been doing extensive research on this for over a week now, including my kernel patches. I've been hoping to find another, sneaky, way through some obscure tool that might support it. For example, qemu supports configuring the physical and logical sector-size of its virtual drives, but unfortunately what I'm doing can't make use of a virtual machine
<daftykins> sounds like you need to buy yourself an Advanced Format drive ;)
<TJ-> I have the drives, but I need to be able to simulate them for tooling for building images
<TJ-> I'm working on a universal GRUB2-bootable image that'll work on x86/amd64, BIOS and UEFI, with raw block and ISO9660/El Torito, supporting multiple sector sizes (512/2048/4096) and want to design it to work with the current tooling
<lordievader> TJ-: Use a loopback device.
<lordievader> Make an image with dd, then turn them into a virtual device with the loopback stuff.
<TJ-> I'm continuing with my kernel loop driver patches, which is the best way, but it's taking more time than I anticipated due to knock-on effects, so I was hoping I might find another sneaky way to do so I can get on with actually creating the images and patching the various tooling to work correctly
<TJ-> lordievader: That doesn't work, you're missing my point. the loop driver hard-codes 512 byte sectors. My kernel patches are changing that but are not yet ready, as I mentioned
<lordievader> Hmm, I see.
<MonkeyDust> right...
 * lotuspsychje doesnt understand nothing about it
<MonkeyDust> (talking to my pc)
<TJ-> lordievader: hence looking for a 'sneaky' way around it until those patches are ready, so I can build images and do testing :)
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: lol
<lordievader> Nothing springs to mind I'm afraid. I usually don't mind the defaults.
<TJ-> I thought nbd might do it, but it doesn't.
<TJ-> The issue is this, if an image is created on a 512-byte sector block device that will fail on a 4096-byte device, and visa-versa
<TJ-> the reason being that partition offsets and layouts (such as the GPT header and ISO9660 descriptors) are positioned based on their Logical Block Address (LBA) aka sector number... so sector 1 on a 4K sized sector advanced format disk is sector 8 on a 512-byte sector-sized disk
<lordievader> And you don't have this problem with VM's?
<TJ-> It is possible, with qemu for example, to specify the physical and logical sector size of the virtual disks it presents to the guest, so instead of the default 512/512 it can be set to 512/4096 or 4096/4096 or whatever.
<TJ-> Unfortunately the tooling that builds these bootable images can't make use of a VM
<lordievader> TJ-: I'm not sure. But I think that the VM thinks it is running on real hardware. So if you can tell a physical machine to use 4K sectors you should be able to tell a VM the same thing.
<TJ-> (qemu has the property: <device>.physical_block_size=xxxx
<TJ-> lordievader: You can't change the sector size of bare-metal devices. This is why I'm working on adding this functionality to the kernel loop device driver.
<lordievader> Ah, then I simply don't understand ;)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: maybe the #ubuntu-devel guys would know this?
<lotuspsychje> im searching the net for 4k allignment and ubuntu, but this issue is over my head
<lordievader> Or the kernel team.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: know the channel name?
<lordievader> Err #ubuntu-kernel or something, ask alis.
<lordievader> !alis
<ubot5> alis is a services bot that can help you find channels. Read "/msg alis help list" . For more help or questions relating to alis, please join #freenode. Example usage: /msg alis list #ubuntu* or /msg alis list *http*
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I've asked in there the last couple of days but no-one has spoken up, and I used to be on the kernel team, and work on the mainline kernel,  so I'm very familiar with this kernel avenue.
<lordievader> TJ-: Nice, nice :)
<TJ-> this is why, for now, I was hoping there's some tool out there that can simulate this... I did look hard at device-mapper but it seems this is the 1 thing it can't do :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: how about the ##linux guys + 4k ?
<TJ-> Yeah, been asking there and in ##kernel too, I hang out in those channels as well as the ubuntu ones
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: can you specify the search string? a tool to simulate..
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: "simulate 4K sector size" is about as tight as I can get :)
<lotuspsychje> ok tnx lemme dig the net :p
<lordievader> Are there disks with a 4K sector size?
<TJ-> The annoying part is, the file-system tools will allow you to specify the underlying sector size (to alignment purposes) but it also needs to be done at the lower level
<TJ-> lordievader: Yes, it's the standard for >2TB devices
<lordievader> Ah, yes I see. (Just checked my 3TB drive)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: can this help: http://flashdba.com/4k-sector-size/
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: That just explains how 4KB sectors are implemented and the backward-compatibility with 512B sectors (emulation mode) is done
<lotuspsychje> k
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: This is going to be some low-level Linux-specific tool that works with block devices, such as device-mapper (dmsetup), Multiple Devices (mdadm), or similar
<TJ-> mdadm has the concept of chunks but that doesn't translate to what userspace sees as sector sizes
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: i would go talk around with ##hardware or ##linux
<lotuspsychje> never know someone knows something
<TJ-> I'm going to spend part of the weekend doing more work on the kernel loop device driver; I think I'm almost there with that. I can also start to investigate the tooling packages to ensure they won't fall over with differing sector sizes. I was just hoping I'd overlooked some tool that does this as a side-effect.
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: join ##hardware you need to help me
<lotuspsychje> <lotuspsychje>  someone knows a package for linux that can simulate 4K sector size?
<lotuspsychje> <compdoc> bad idea
<lotuspsychje> <lotuspsychje> compdoc: why?
<lotuspsychje> <mystica555> i don't even understand what you mean 'simulate'
<lotuspsychje> <AStorm> package?
<lotuspsychje> <foobark> vmware?
<lotuspsychje> <iChatter> why simulate 4K sector?
<lotuspsychje> <AStorm> you can get the kernel to lie about sector size, sure
<lotuspsychje> <eHAPPY> i think he just means offset for 4k
<lotuspsychje> <iChatter> emulating old devices?
<lotuspsychje> <AStorm> if you need the offset, gparted aligns to 1MB
<lotuspsychje> <iChatter> also, it must be low level then I guess
<lotuspsychje> * rjno has quit ()
<lotuspsychje> <AStorm> you could potentially set up a fake MTD with such a sector size
<lotuspsychje> <compdoc> linux and windows all understand 4k sector sizes, and 512 sector size. let them handle it
<daftykins> a mate of mine hangs out in there
<daftykins> they're all idiots i'm afraid
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> not gonna get much deep level input i suspect
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: seems like someone is smart over there :p
<daftykins> must be new ;)
<lotuspsychje> haha
<daftykins> i considered joining once 'cause i enjoy hardware, but... yeah.
<daftykins> not interested in picking out parts for people really
<lotuspsychje> yeah most of the times their pretty m0rrons
<daftykins> mmm, same as #ubuntu but different topic :>
<lotuspsychje> !find gluebi
<ubot5> Found: W:, W:, W:
<lotuspsychje> oO
<daftykins> wat
<daftykins> :D
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: thats what the smart guy suggests to TJ- gluebi driver (mainline)
<daftykins> ah, i was more thinking of the funny output from the bot though
<daftykins> back shortly
<lotuspsychje> kk
<MonkeyDust> !happiness
<ubot5> Chocolate! And Strawberries! And ICE CREAM! Ooo! and 60 minutes +m!
<lotuspsychje> oO
<lotuspsychje> i want one!
<MonkeyDust> happiness seems to be associated with food, that's interesting...
<lotuspsychje> :p
<daftykins> i can go with that
<daftykins> i have a belgian chocolate all butter cookie from the coffee shop here in front of me 8)
<lotuspsychje> i have a whole country with cookies like that
<lotuspsychje> :p
<daftykins> XD
<lotuspsychje> !cookie | daftykins
<ubot5> daftykins: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<daftykins> 8D
<daftykins> shame i bought and paid for it myself :(
<daftykins> makes me wonder how much money we could put into open source from providing help really
<daftykins> sometimes when people are feeling really generous after my help with Kodi (new name for XBMC) they offer money or beer, so i say donate instead if they feel like it
<daftykins> works out well :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: found something usefull after that konversation?
 * lotuspsychje grabs the half of daftykins cookie
 * EriC^^ shoots lotuspsychje with a tranquilizer
<lotuspsychje> loool
 * OerHeks bites lotuspsychje ..nummie
<OerHeks> uh oh... where am i
<EriC^^> magic cookie?
<EriC^^> :P
<lotuspsychje> youl have to come with stronger toys to paralize lotuspsychje :p
 * lotuspsychje is protected by ubuntu-shield
<daftykins> OerHeks: you're awake! this is real! :>
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: Not so far... lots of layers of indirection but not found a way to set the sector size so far
<lotuspsychje> so far for quality ubuntu discussions...
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: but will that UBI help you out?
<TJ-> It doesn't look like it... it's just making more of a mess!
<lotuspsychje> bummers
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i presume you dont know howto simulate 4k sector size either?
<EriC^^> huh, no :P
<lotuspsychje> tnx for trying :p
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: guess you on your own again mate
<MonkeyDust> I just copy/paste's 'sudo apt-get update' from a tutorial   <-- laziness...
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> and i added a ppa for winusb to create a win8 usb
<TJ-> It requires:  losetup /dev/loop0 disk.img && modprobe block2mtd block2mtd=/dev/loop0,4096 && modprobe ubi && modprobe gluebi && ubiformat && ubinize -o /tmp/ubi.img -p 4KiB -m 512 ubi.ini && ubiattach /dev/ubi_ctrl -m 0 ... and still end up with 512 byte sectors :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: confront that hardware guy with it, he might reply back :p
<lotuspsychje> this is chinese for me
<daftykins> why would you need a program to create a windows 8 flash drive? is that for legacy installs?
<daftykins> as otherwise, creating a plain FAT volume and pasting the ISO contents is perfecto for EFI :>
<TJ-> I'm sure it'll be quicker to just get on with my kernel loop driver modifications
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: what do you use?
<lotuspsychje> dd?
<daftykins> nah you can't dd windows ones afaik
<lotuspsychje> winusb works like a charm for me
<daftykins> if you need legacy boot then i create from Windows so i'm ok, but EFI installs you just do the above
<lotuspsychje> well i formatted a laptop with ubuntu for a kid
<lotuspsychje> but i never save windows partitions
<lotuspsychje> and he wanted to game
<daftykins> ah, oops
<lotuspsychje> so i installed a w8 iso on usb
<daftykins> so it came with 8 EFI'd?
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> but cant use the internal restore option anymore
<daftykins> yeah so pasting contents is all you need :)
<lotuspsychje> w8 is up n running so the kids glad :p
<daftykins> anyway don't mean to second guess, thought it could be handy/interesting though
<lotuspsychje> he can play LOTR lego again
<daftykins> lawl
<lotuspsychje> :p
<MonkeyDust> is that a w8 live session?
<daftykins> no such thing
<MonkeyDust> not w8 on a usb stick?
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: no, w8 iso bootable
<daftykins> yeah but you don't get a live session, only the Windows preinstallation environment
<lordievader> TJ-: Good luck on your kernel driver ;)
<MonkeyDust> but it does not install?
<daftykins> no that's not the topic :)
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: yes, i get the same install screen as w7
<TJ-> lordievader: thanks... it's not far off now, should be done and tested tomorrow night :)
<daftykins> i was just discussing how you don't need to mess with boot sector crap anymore
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: if gluebi is mainline, the #ubuntu-devel guys must know all this right???
<lordievader> Nice nice.
<lordievader> That is still on my list of things that I should do, write a kernel module.
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: gluebi does exactly the opposite of what AStorm thought it did, it's totally not going to help
<TJ-> lordievader: It can be a frustrating learning curve; I started back in 2005
<MonkeyDust> what's gluebi?
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: thats what the guy from ##hardware suggested to TJ-
<lotuspsychje> not sure whats it for
<lotuspsychje> the whole night is being chinese to me
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: It's pretty simple. Raw physical flash devices are called Memory Technology Devices (MTD). Unsorted BIock Images (UBI) are a way to define where the non-erased blocks are, to provide Flash wear-levelling support.
<TJ-> UBI cannot be addressed directly by tools that are written to manage block devices, so GLUEBI can be layered on top of a UBI volume and make it look like an MTD block device once again, so that tools like partitioners, file system formattting, etc., can use it
<lotuspsychje> think i would understand more, if i see you playing with all your tools
<lordievader> TJ-: That is why I have been putting it off.
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: So to use UBI for my purposes I'd have a file on disk representing a disk image, maybe an ISO. I'd have to loop-mount (/dev/loop0), then use the kernel's block2mtd module to make that look like an MTD device, then format that MTD device with UBI, and then layer GLUEBI on top of that to make the UBI look like an MTD. At that point I *might* have a device that reports the sector sizes I require *if* one of the layers was configurable in that re
<TJ-> gard. But... none of those layers provide a way to specify a  (sector) block-size since MTD/UBI are intrinsically *not* block devices like ATA/SCSI devices
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: the simple part is... when 'gdisk', 'fdisk', or any other partitioning tool accesses the simluated device it needs to be able to see a physical and/or logical sector size other than 512 bytes so that what it writes to that device is in the correct location
<TJ-> Hence my work on the loop driver. The easiest solution to this is to be able to alter the sector size values reported for a /dev/loopX device which has a simple disk file as its backing store
<lotuspsychje> right :p
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-06-27
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Slow ; last entry this channel ; " 14:01 < lotuspsychje> right :p " lol
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: you guys need to talk when im away also :p
<daftykins> that was at 8pm!
<daftykins> also i'm heading to bed :>
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: shift change!
<lotuspsychje> loool
<lotuspsychje> well goodnight for you both
<lotuspsychje> dont do things i wouldnt do :p
<daftykins> i'd normally consider that to include installing Windows, but you said you did - so i can still work :D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<histo> just spent an hour screwing around with legacy nvidia drivers in arch. I was installing the package for the lts kernel and wasn't even running lts kernel. FML
<lotuspsychje> for wich card histo ?
<histo> old nvidia 9500 gt
<histo> lotuspsychje: I was using their nvidia-340xx-lts package instead of nvidia-340xx
<lotuspsychje> kk
<histo> lotuspsychje: sitting there stumped as to why the module wouldn't load.  Well I wasn't using linux-lts
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: good morning
<TJ-> Morning :)
<TJ-> Just started a kernel test-build of my loop device enhancements, I think it's about done
<lotuspsychje> cool!
<TJ-> Took the dogs out at 0430 and 1 of the Huskies decided to run off, then the Collie too. Both came back an hour later just as I was settling down to code :)
<lotuspsychje> huskies are beauty
<TJ-> Yeah, got 2 of them, one Silver one Pepper, both with blue eyes. Luckily we've got a large farm for them to run on so its not too bad if they run off as long as they don't stray too far
<lotuspsychje> yeah those dogs need big space
<lotuspsychje> brother of my gf, has adopted a huskie too in their small house...
<lotuspsychje> thats so putty
<lotuspsychje> put the dog in bench and only 1h a day walking...
<lotuspsychje> pitty
<TJ-> Yeah... you can't give them too much exercise, although they like being lazy when they're at home whereas the Collie is constantly on the go. He's great though, got him to round the Huskies up when they run off and he does - treats them just like Sheep :)
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: a guy fixxed his intel ssd on IDE mode this morning, he mentioned your name
<TJ-> oh yeah, I remember that. I suggested he try it with a single SSD connected to the SATA controller to see if it still dropped the link to SATA 1
<TJ-> Did he say precisely what he'd done/achieved?
<TJ-> I think it was hogslammer?
<TJ-> He was hit with a bad combination of an Intel X25-E SSD and an ASRock Z77 extreme 4 motherboard that has an Intel SATA 2 chipset on. With the link in AHCI or RAID mode the SATA 2 SSD can't bring up the link and errors until it falls back to SATA 1. Only IDE mode allows the SSD to use the link with SATA 2. Intel engineers acknowledge the problem which is caused by a power mismatch
<TJ-> Basically, the SATA specification gives a minimum-maximum range the devices must support. Unfortunately, the motherboard only uses the minimum but the drive requires the maximum
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: he fixxed his issue by setting bios to IDE
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^ and ObrienDave
 * ObrienDave waves hello
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hi mate :p
<ObrienDave> well darn, sleepy time. *waves*
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: yeah, I'd recommended that originally and he did but then got into a complaining session about having spent all that money on the hardware and unable to use AHCI , which was when I recommended he test it with only 1 SSD connected in case that helped the power-starvation issue
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: but will IDE mode perform good read/write speeds?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: some systems dont even boot an ssd on IDE
<TJ-> It gives him SATA 2 instead of SATA 1
<lotuspsychje> weird
<TJ-> He was hit with a bad combination of an Intel X25-E SSD and an ASRock Z77 extreme 4 motherboard that has an Intel SATA 2 chipset on. With the link in AHCI or RAID mode the SATA 2 SSD can't bring up the link and errors until it falls back to SATA 1. Only IDE mode allows the SSD to use the link with SATA 2. Intel engineers acknowledge the problem which is caused by a power mismatch
<TJ-> Basically, the SATA specification gives a minimum-maximum range the devices must support. Unfortunately, the motherboard only uses the minimum but the drive requires the maximum
<lotuspsychje> i see
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: hello :p
<lotuspsychje> set to favs mate
<MonkeyDust> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> we missed you :p
<MonkeyDust> my ubuntu works, without problems, now i'm lost
<lotuspsychje> lool
<MonkeyDust> nothing to troubleshoot
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> installed trusty to over 50 boxes by now
<lotuspsychje> all run pretty fine
<MonkeyDust> sounds good, i only have my own old laptop (2009 or so)
<lotuspsychje> 'old' is very relative with ubuntu
<MonkeyDust> true
<lotuspsychje> my 'old' desktop amd 3200+ with 1 gig ram and 8gig transcend ssd goes rocketfast on trusty 64bit
<lotuspsychje> its faster boot then my netbook with the samsung pro 850
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: the angry volunteer joined, its gonna go bad now :p
<MonkeyDust> vacuum cleaner  <-- unrivalled when it comes to hardware maintenance
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> off into the sun guys
<lotuspsychje> cheers
<TJ-> MonkeyDust: I prefer an air compressor :)
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<MonkeyDust> what happened to the floodbot(s), why don't they kick trolls in #ubuntu ?
<OerHeks> *weekend-trolls
<TJ-> Yow! Just had XH-558 fly right over the top of the farmhouse at low level... made me jump out of my seat!
<OerHeks> Avro Vulcan XH558 ??
<TJ-> Yeah!
<TJ-> It was on its way to a turning point nr Grantham before heading to Newark Air Museum
<OerHeks> i couldn't find it on flightradar, flying too low?
<TJ-> I dunno... about 500 feet I'd say.... http://www.vulcantothesky.org/salute-to-the-v-force-tour.html
<TJ-> It returns to Doncaster Robin-Hood but doesn't show on their arrivals either... obviously in Stealth mode :)
<daftykins> =]
<DJones> MonkeyDust: Floodbots all went away ages ago, drone has taken over but is still learning
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<OerHeks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: hello mate
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje, OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: hello mate, how are you?
<BluesKaj> fine thanks, lotuspsychje, and you ?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: are you testing wily?
<BluesKaj> yes
<BluesKaj> kubuntu
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: cool, all work fine on alpha?
<lotuspsychje> !info libreoffice wily
<ubot5> libreoffice (source: libreoffice): office productivity suite (metapackage). In component universe, is optional. Version 1:4.4.2-0ubuntu3 (wily), package size 26 kB, installed size 168 kB
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> alot of nice fixes in libreoffice 4.4, does it feel renewed BluesKaj ?
<BluesKaj> alpha seems ok so far , nothing serious to report , ...sorry i don't use libreoffice much, so i haven't had any reason to check
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: can you just open writer for me, startup speed, look n feel light?
<lotuspsychje> it should have changed alot
<lotuspsychje> maybe much changes under the hood, but still should be another feeling
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, opens quickly , no crashes
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: cool tnx for feedback
<BluesKaj> sems solid
<BluesKaj> seems that is
<lotuspsychje_> hexchat lags on me more then xchat
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-06-28
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/will-i-have-the-latest-software-versions-in-ubuntu-with-snappy-485490.shtml
<ObrienDave> *waves*
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: good morning
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> how r u mate
<EriC^^> great you?
<lotuspsychje> fine tnx, sunny weather
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> and later on coffee chat with friends n pies
<EriC^^> yummy
<EriC^^> pies.. *homer simpson drool*
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> :P
<lotuspsychje> seems like #ubuntu-women is filled with mostly men :p
<EriC^^> lol
<TJ-> Morning (belatedly)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: good day sir
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: hows your project going?
<TJ-> Are you sure ... could be Madam :D
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: excuse me mylady :p
<TJ-> It worked last night on top of Linux v4.1 ... then this morning I noticed that the v4.2 merge window has moved the loop device workqueue from the driver to per-loop ... which stopped my patches doing anything useful... refactoring them now :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: never saw a girl, that trying to 4K sectors before :p
 * TJ- tuts
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/will-i-have-the-latest-software-versions-in-ubuntu-with-snappy-485490.shtml
<lotuspsychje> i wonder how that will turn out
<lotuspsychje> tintedwindows: welcome
<tintedwindows> thanks good to be here, Ubuntu is my fave
<lotuspsychje> tintedwindows: what do you like about ubuntu?
<TJ-> If snappy requires Unity 8, Canonical are going to loose developer input
<tintedwindows> i love the control of ubuntu and the configuration you have is just so much better than main stream operating systems.
<lotuspsychje> tintedwindows: wich version are you on?
<TJ-> Over my time working with Ubuntu (since 2005) I've come to distrust the way Canonical internalise supposedly 'community' development teams and stands, locking out any input from developers. Very walled garden, take-it-or-leave-it
<tintedwindows> 15.04, you?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: the same way shuttleworth had to appologize that unity was a mistake?
<TJ-> EriC^^: can you remind me of that pipe you use to termbin ?
<lotuspsychje> tintedwindows: 14.04.2 64bit
<EriC^^> TJ-: nc termbin.com 9999
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: Across so many key parts... it always struck me as Shuttleworth's frustration with the community approach. I know it makes it uncomfortable for many Debian developers who are employed by Canonical and find themselves compromised by it
<TJ-> EriC^^: ha! yeah, it is so simple I couldn't recall it :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: my first unity frustration was the dock at left side, always loved gnome bottom dock
<TJ-> Canonical's attitude is in many ways similar to Google's ... very touchy about keeping things private and internal
<tintedwindows> i would like to know who isn't 64 bit here?  lol is anyone running some old stack 32 bit?
<lotuspsychje> tintedwindows: your on 32bit?
<TJ-> I gave up on mainstream Ubuntu GUI when it switched to Unity and Gnome messed up v2 - switched to KDE here and it is the only GUI that works for my requirements
<tintedwindows> you can get unity-tweak-tool
<Hobbet1> i am running a xpc pentium 4 with 2 gigs of memory
<lotuspsychje> Hobbet1: wich ubuntu on it?
<Hobbet1> lubuntu
<lotuspsychje> cool
<tintedwindows> that is cool
<tintedwindows> you should put a rambo sticker on the side of it
<Hobbet1> and it runs just fin i am on opera with 7 tabs open
<Hobbet1> lol
<tintedwindows> gtg nice chatting
<lotuspsychje> Hobbet1: i like chromium better then opera
<Hobbet1> i only use opera for the  irc chat, i can adjust the text to make it bigger easier on my eyes
<TJ-> I have notebooks I bought in 2002 still in use with 384MB of RAM
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: running ubuntu on them also
<TJ-> Yes, with my own kernel builds (non-PAE) and stripped down to the essentials
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> !info gdisk
<ubot5> gdisk (source: gdisk): GPT fdisk text-mode partitioning tool. In component main, is extra. Version 0.8.10-2ubuntu0.1 (vivid), package size 202 kB, installed size 856 kB
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: hi mate
<lotuspsychje> all ok?
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, doing ok here. How are you?
<lotuspsychje> fine tnx, sunny outside
<lotuspsychje> and a heated week comming upon us
<lotuspsychje> 30+
<lordievader> Yeah.... -.-
<lordievader> Time to mistreat a VM with Java.
<lotuspsychje> scary silent in #ubuntu on sundays
<Hobbet1> is this room pretty active?
<lotuspsychje> Hobbet1: at some times very, its timzeone related i guess
<Hobbet1> well i am in phx, az its 3am here lol
<lotuspsychje> 11h55 here
<Hobbet1> how long have you been using ubuntu
<lordievader> What is the bare minimum of packages you need to run X?
<lordievader> Meh, nevermind...
<lordievader> xserver-xorg selects a bunch.
<TJ-> lordievader: You want to support headless Java?
<lordievader> Headless Java works, but this thing I'm trying to do requires a gui...
<lotuspsychje> Hobbet1: replaced windows for ubuntu years ago
<lordievader> I'm messing with MaryTTS again, to install extra voices you need X -.-
<TJ-> lordievader: OK ... when you mentioned VM I wondered if you were creating a headless install
<Hobbet1> lotuspsychje I still havent complete stepped away from windows because there are something i cant do without it, i just found out how to get amazon instant video to work on ubuntu
<lordievader> TJ-: It should be headless. Using VNC for the moment to get this done.
<Johnny_Linux> shoot
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: welcome
<Johnny_Linux> mornin
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: we have gathered most active supporters here
<Johnny_Linux> cool, thanks
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: we do alot of support, and never have the chance to talk 2 each other
<Johnny_Linux> i see that
<Johnny_Linux> i just booted, going for  coffee
<lotuspsychje> Johnny_Linux: okay cheers!
<lotuspsychje> !cookie | Johnny_Linux to dip in your coffee
<ubot5> Johnny_Linux to dip in your coffee: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<Hobbet1> i wish i drank coffee, i guess my soda will have to do lol
<lotuspsychje> Hobbet1: what do you still need in windows?
<TJ-> Everyone still needs Windows
<lotuspsychje> i dont :p
<TJ-> ... to remind them how good Linux is
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> +1
<TJ-> Gotchya! :)
<lordievader> I use it for Lightroom.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: wasnt there a linux alternative for that yet?
<lordievader> There was, but I never checked it out. I quite like Lightroom.
<Hobbet1> work stuff for the fiancee she needs it so i dual boot the laptop but for myself since i found that amazon thing i dont really need windows and we can do netflix on ubuntu i hear with google chrome
<lotuspsychje> !info darktable
<ubot5> darktable (source: darktable): virtual lighttable and darkroom for photographers. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.4.2-1build2 (vivid), package size 2002 kB, installed size 9225 kB (Only available for any-i386; any-amd64)
<TJ-> I only use Windows in VM, and that's to use Internet Explorer to manage some so-called 'intelligent' managed switches that have web interfaces that break with all modern HTML/ECMAscript-compliant browsers, such as my Netgear GS748TP.
<Hobbet1> i told my better half that i was going to challenge her , i was going to make her use ubuntu for a week without windows and see how she likes it
<lotuspsychje> Hobbet1: give her cool packages to make her life easy
<lotuspsychje> !info cycle | Hobbet1
<ubot5> Hobbet1: cycle (source: cycle): calendar program for women. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.3.1-11 (vivid), package size 40 kB, installed size 308 kB
<Hobbet1> cool any other recommendations i just installed cycle
<lordievader> My Windows can be used as a VM is performance isn't critical. It can also be dual booted :D
<lotuspsychje> Hobbet1: telegram for ubuntu desktop can be interesting aswell
<lotuspsychje> Hobbet1: to chat from ubuntu to your wife on smartphone example
<Hobbet1> sorry lotuspsychje that was an accident honest
<lotuspsychje> Hobbet1: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/05/telegram-whatsapp-rival-web-app-ubuntu
<TJ-> Telegrams are *so* 19th century ... personally I prefer hand delivery :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Hobbet1> cool thank you
<lotuspsychje> Hobbet1: what else does your wife use windows for?
<Hobbet1> she uses familytree maker but i am going to have her try gramps
<lotuspsychje> !info gramps
<ubot5> gramps (source: gramps): Genealogical research program. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.1.1~dfsg-3 (vivid), package size 5883 kB, installed size 35608 kB
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> never heard of this one b4
<Hobbet1> she watches hulu, but since i figured out how to watch amazon that is taken care of
<Hobbet1> she playes games on facebook so that is taken care of with google chrome, i will probably install like mahjong and tetris games for her
<EriC^^> TJ-: this works /usr/bin/dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest="org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit" /org/freedesktop/ConsoleKit/Manager org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit.Manager.Stop
<EriC^^> i don't remember it being that command though
<TJ-> EriC^^: bloody 'ell !!
<TJ-> Good luck giving that to someone :D
<EriC^^> lol
<TJ-> EriC^^: this works: *flips big OFF button*
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> he wants it for a script though
<Hobbet1> lotuspsychje i personally dont like  unity that much so i will probably install cairo dock for her to make transition a little easier
<EriC^^> so i guess he won't mind it being so long
<lotuspsychje> Hobbet1: you can use docky too for lightweight feeling
<lotuspsychje> !info docky | Hobbet1
<ubot5> Hobbet1: docky (source: docky): Elegant, powerful, clean dock. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.2.0-2 (vivid), package size 591 kB, installed size 3594 kB
<TJ-> I very much prefer KDE to Gnome or Unity
<Hobbet1> hmm didnt know about that one
<lotuspsychje> im pretty used to unity myself now
<lordievader> TJ-: KDE \o/
<lotuspsychje> its pretty intuitive even for older users
<TJ-> You should try Unity (or Gnome) on 6 HD monitors!
<TJ-> It's more than anightmare
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: the average user, is not like you multitasking 4K :p
<TJ-> That's not the point; the point is, if as a developer you change a key part of the stack (the GUI) then you do *not* introduce major regressions. That's what Unity and Gnome 3 did
<TJ-> I'd sack any of my dev's if they did that. Rather like Linus's "You do NOT break userspace" mantra
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: will mir fix that in the future?
<TJ-> wayland is a step back for multi GPU multi monitor styup so far.
<TJ-> Mir is the same ... targeted at the phone/tablet brigade
<lotuspsychje> right
<TJ-> Canonical's projects are driven by the need to find money-pots to fund the company and that is in the ODM/OEM/Cloud space, not in workstations
<Hobbet1> can somebody please tell me the transitioning to a tablet from a leptop is, if your just going to add a keyboard to it
<TJ-> And that is why many key developers have left of backed off their involvement in Ubuntu as a project. The recent issue between the CC and Jonathan Riddell made a lot of devs sit up and reevaluate supporting Ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: this is reall all getting complicated.. i wish they left the choice to the end user
 * TJ- nods
<TJ-> I'm moving more towards Debian now
<lotuspsychje> more freedom?
<TJ-> Openness
<TJ-> I don't like decisions made in private without consultation that change project objectives ... Ubuntu has a Dictator... that's not really compatible with the ethos
<lotuspsychje> i agree on that for sure
<lotuspsychje> but still i like ubuntu's ease to install/use
<TJ-> The reason upstart failed was it was an internal Canonical project imposed, rather than seeking design input and developers across the Linux community
<lotuspsychje> and now all moving to systemd again..
<TJ-> I don't see much difference in ease-of-use ... I like Debian for its packaging system
<lotuspsychje> well its been long ive tested debian
<TJ-> I chose to develop for Ubuntu originally because its development and release tempo was more suited to my aims
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: so whats your 'feeling' about ubuntu touch conker the world with smartphones?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: It'll pass away the same as other Canonical money-making projects. Without critical mass these projects lose money
<TJ-> The release tempo on smartphones is even more intense than for 'regular' Linux distros; that requires costly engineering resources permanently assigned
<lotuspsychje> well i rather have ubuntu on a device, then malware nightmare android..
<TJ-> What malware? I mainly use Cyanogen mod which I can build from source if needed
<TJ-> Android's security model is very good in terms of applications isolation
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: android is very unsecure
<lotuspsychje> and play store full of dangerous apps
<Hobbet1> thanks for letting me know i have android phones lol
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I diagree. Android uses SELinux MAC
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: An app isn't dangerous if you don't install it!
<TJ-> https://source.android.com/devices/tech/security/selinux/index.html
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: yeah but this is the real world mate, everyone uses pc banking on android
<lotuspsychje> and its a danger!
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: Show me technical evidence not inuendo.
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: the internet leaks with android security/malware issues
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: same for Ios
<lordievader> What?
<lordievader> Where did you get that idea?
<Daekdroom> They are app security issues.
<lotuspsychje> anyone wants stolen pics from iphones/android?
<lotuspsychje> =insecure
<Daekdroom> They can plague whatever mobile OS lets 3rd party develop apps.
<lotuspsychje> Daekdroom: try to break security on ubuntu touch
<Daekdroom> lotuspsychje, whatever issues there were with Android apps that allowed people to sniff website passwords through WiFi wasn't an Android security breach at all, but poor app design
<Daekdroom> The same thing can happen with Ubuntu Touch once it develops an app ecosystem
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: An application can only get acces to photos when the user permitted the application to do so. If the application cannot handle that privilege how is the OS then insecure?
<lotuspsychje> if poor apps can infiltrate an Os..
<lordievader> It is the user trusting the application.
<Daekdroom> It's not infiltration.
<Daekdroom> You install an app, you guarantee certain permissions to it.
<Daekdroom> But some people never bother with what the permissions might mean in the first place.
<Daekdroom> And transmitting passwords over insecure HTTP is something that can happen in any platform.
<Daekdroom> (i.e. it's a danger to internet usage, plain and simple)
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Does Ubuntu touch use apparmor too?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: not sure
<Johnny_Linux> just a side note, selinux was created by our loving NSA
<lordievader> True, and from what I have heared they done a good job.
<Johnny_Linux> especially with the windows back doors
<TJ-> You have to remember also that SDCard storage, where many large-data applications store user data, is not protected by application separation
<lordievader> The only reason I am not using it is the stories I heared about SELinux made me feel like it was a PITA.
<TJ-> Johnny_Linux: And has had very extensive workouts over a long period, and is one of several alternative MACs in the Linux kernel
<lotuspsychje> the whole world is one big botnet of androids, pc's, servers
<lotuspsychje> security is a big joke
<Johnny_Linux> agreed
<lordievader> What are you talking about? O.o
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Are you trolling?
<lotuspsychje> many admins have no idea their servers are h4cked and are to proud to investigate
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: im not, its the truth
<lordievader> Right...
 * lordievader goes back to coding
<TJ-> I'd take SELinux over AppArmor any day. AppArmor is path-based whereas SE can attach to processes as well as files
<lotuspsychje> rbots,sqlscanners,vnc,webstores,drupal,windows servers,rootkits..the whole world
<lotuspsychje> and mobiles
<Johnny_Linux> and smart meters
<lotuspsychje> and all the 0day exploits, nobody still know..
<TJ-> Better turn the PC off now, then!
<Johnny_Linux> mine is solar powered
<lotuspsychje> haha
<TJ-> Or simply stop using insecure network connected programs
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: can we tell that to the average user?
<TJ-> Sure
<lotuspsychje> using unsecure windows and android
<TJ-> They have free choice ... and convenience usually wins out... just look at how people have flocked to Facebook
<lotuspsychje> true
<Johnny_Linux> and mark caled them all suckers
<lotuspsychje> another exploit nightmare Fb
<Johnny_Linux> facebook is a cia exploit
<lotuspsychje> fb, skype,..
<Johnny_Linux> magically thier stocked bloomed with no product, over nite
<Johnny_Linux> stock
<TJ-> People generally are not interested in preventative measures over convenience... until they get bitten by, for example, their personal identity data being compromised, or their PC getting locked by ransomware
<lotuspsychje> how many ppl got money stolen over pc banking by romanian hackers?
<lotuspsychje> millions
<TJ-> Please, they're CRACKERS not Hackers. I'm a hacker, and I take exception to the misuse of the term for journalistic hype
<lotuspsychje> under the hood of internet its a warzone, you all have to admit right
 * lotuspsychje gives TJ- a whitehat :p
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: All technology has been weaponised, since the invention of the flint knife
<lotuspsychje> true
<lotuspsychje> anyway ill rest my case and go into the sun :p
<lotuspsychje> see you next debate lol
<lotuspsychje> have a good sunday!
<lordievader> TJ-: Do you watch Hak5?
<TJ-> What's that?
<lordievader> A tech show for hackers: http://hak5.org/
<lordievader> I quite like it.
<TJ-> I rarely touch TV or video ... too low a Shannon information content :)
<TJ-> I prefer short succinct accurate text ... video just makes me want to get up and go do something useful :)
<lordievader> Hehe, to each his own ;)
<Hobbet1> Hak5 is a cool show, alsow category5 is a linux show also
<Hobbet1> same with linux action show
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<daftykins> o/
<BluesKaj> hi daftykins
<daftykins> g'day
<daftykins> sad times for spacex, seems a lauch just blew up
<BluesKaj> not again :/
<daftykins> mmhmm
<TJ-> Earlier I was helping a user that had managed to delete all the system shell packages from the system and was stuck with just the running BASH instance. As a result most commands could not be executed and I spent some time trying to find a way using only BASH internals to execute a command. There were 2 problems: 1) being able to list files in directories in the absence of 'ls' and 2) being able to execute a binary
<TJ-> oh, and 3) not being able to use 'cat' to view file internals
<TJ-> 1) is solved with the simple "for f in /some/path/*; do echo $f; done"
<TJ-> 3) is solved with "while read line; do echo "$line"; done </path/to/file"
<TJ-> 2) is solved by using 3) to find ld-linux.so, the library that executes commands
<TJ-> It involves reading the contents of "/proc/self/maps" and parsing out the entries for ld-<version>*.so
<TJ-> reduced into a single line that sets a variable it is:
<TJ-> export EXEC=$(while read line; do A=${line/#*  /}; B=${A/#*ld-*\.so/YES}; [ "$B" == "YES" ] && echo $A && break; done </proc/self/maps)
<TJ-> now any system executable can be launched with: $EXEC /absolute/path/to/executable
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Now that shows such a deep comprehension of the operating system . I just love it .
<TJ-> necessity is the mother of invention... and the father of "man bash" !!!
<TJ-> maybe something to add to your emergency toolkit
<daftykins> see i'd have just had them boot a live session and chroot
<daftykins> why waste effort ;)
<BluesKaj_> hmm, looks like greek to me :-) , but most of those commands containing non alphabet characters might as well be a foreign language
<daftykins> impressive, though
<TJ-> daftykins: not always possible
<daftykins> maybe, but if someone's doing this stuff in a server context (only one where they couldn't that i can think of) then they're grade A fools :)
<TJ-> daftykins: if files have been unlinked (e.g. with rm -rf *) but some running process is maintaining an open file handle to them, then the only way to save those files is to access the owner-process's /proc/$PID/fd/<number> and copy it back into the file
<TJ-> daftykins: Think: database files for example :)
<daftykins> you didn't mention them having open data
<daftykins> i don't really follow that though
<daftykins> so how did this user manage to screw up so badly?
<TJ-> I'm generalising as to how this kind of tooling can save the day
<daftykins> ah, yeah but that just stretches to justify your point
<TJ-> The user was using Slackware and somehow the package manager somehow got its dependency graph wrong and decided to remove many key packages during what was supposed to be a routine package upgrade
<daftykins> ouch
<daftykins> that's a BAD package manager *smacks*
<TJ-> daftykins: No it doesn't, I've used this construct in the distant past to save servers. They didn't lose the shells, but I had to use ld-linux.so to execute due to some corruption in the file-systems, and of course ld-linux.so was in-memory and therefor could be relied on when launching any further shells couldn't be
<daftykins> maybe i just don't understand well enough :) seems an awful lot of hassle
<TJ-> It can be but sometimes knowing this is possible can save the day. I was intrigued as to whether it was possible to achieve it from a single in-memory shell without recourse to any external utilities
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> mentioning it here, I know I can always find it again via the IRC logs :)
<daftykins> you mean you don't keep an engineers log book? :D
<TJ-> I keep a Wiki but I forget where in it I save things :)
<JanC> hehe
<JanC> wiki's search not working well?  :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-06-27
<Bashing-om> OK, enough for this session .. OerHeks will you take up my slack ?
<OerHeks> we'll try, thank you sofar Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> arthritis geting the better of me .. going to retire .. G nite .
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> hi all
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> morning ducass and lordievader
<aeolus> hello
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<Netwolf> 220 med.edu.ky ESMTP Sendmail 8.15.2/8.15.2/Secured Mail Gateway; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 13:02:04 -0400; (A man walks into an SMTP bar. He says, EHLO guys!)  Are you authorized to talk to us? Scanning Your Connection: fwl01.prd.tor.med.edu.ky(OK)-fwl01.prd.tor.med.edu.ky [198.91.189.152]
 * Netwolf smirks at the happy vpn connections and dns
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-06-28
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> morning all
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Heyas all
<nacc> dang, nRy2 promised to leave, and then people started talking to them again
<daftykins> summon the ops
<nacc> daftykins: yeah, it might be time again
<daftykins> what's this one up to?
<nacc> wanting support for Intel RST, but not really responding to anyone's responses
<nacc> stating one thing, then arguing they did not say it even when quoted directly back to them :)
<daftykins> oh that's just #freenode support seekers in general :P "i have a question but i won't actually take any of the advice"
<nacc> heh
<Bashing-om> Just more niose to tolerate.
<Bashing-om> Away for a bit .
<Bashing-om> back ..
<EriC^^> welcome back :)
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: I see EriC^^ you have had a tough time of it. You have been kept occupied .
<EriC^^> yeah :D
<daftykins> ^_^ problem user eh?
<Bashing-om> Naw .. he is easy to work with .. just mentally challenged with testdisk and photorec; trying to recover his data .
<daftykins> ah, perhaps even the best go loopy when their data is in question :)
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Quilty ! - in the past ... I did learn .. 3 backups !
<daftykins> :D
<nacc> tgm4883: good luck.
<tgm4883> nacc: I'm passively dealing with this. I'm playing kerbal space program on steam on my second monitor
<nacc> heh
 * nacc goes back to unbreaking another 16.04 php package in universe
<daftykins> o0
 * nacc did the migration from php5 to php7
<nacc> most things worked -- not everything did :)
<nacc> tgm4883: lol
<tgm4883> nacc: so I'm thinking we walk him through removing those other packages and the repo, deleting ~/.steam and then installing the package from the main repos
<tgm4883> although we really need an lspci
<nacc> tgm4883: yeah, that should get steam itself working
<nacc> tgm4883: lspci eventually for sound, probably, yeah :)
<tgm4883> nacc: yea I was hoping sound and video card
<nacc> tgm4883: ah good point, forgot there was also a video issue
<nacc> tgm4883: looks like they may need multiverse enabled too
<daftykins> which bit for?
<nacc> steam
<daftykins> !info steam
<ubot5> steam (source: steam): Valve's Steam digital software delivery system. In component multiverse, is extra. Version 1:1.0.0.48-1ubuntu3 (xenial), package size 853 kB, installed size 2600 kB (Only available for i386)
<daftykins> right y'are
<daftykins> ah you guys remind me of the fun of problem solving, but due to ban, no more
 * nacc is sort of curious what got you banned :)
<Ben64> "!guidelines"
<tgm4883> daftykins: all I see is that you found a way out ;)
<nacc> Ben64: thanks
<daftykins> nacc: guy was in there for like a week with problems, saw us helping others and only a week in decided to tell us it was non-final the release he was on
<daftykins> naturally i called him the idiot he was and BAM no more me
<daftykins> tgm4883: i think you're right there ;)
<nacc> daftykins: ah :/
<nacc> lol
<nacc> now the keyboard isn't working
<Ben64> definitely a way out
<Ben64> keyboard not working
<Ben64> sound not working
<Ben64> steam not working
<Ben64> video not working
<Ben64> anything else?
<daftykins> sounds like an average day ;)
<daftykins> if that's a gaming laptop that should be running Windows like it came with, that'd be the full set!
<Ben64> well that was a waste of everything
<nacc> Ben64: completely
<daftykins> what happened?
<Ben64> <Valkyrie115> this doesn't happen with mac os x or windows
 * tgm4883 goes to lookup what daftykins did to get banned so he can do the same
<Ben64> says the guy who almost assuredly has never installed windows fresh
<nacc> lol
<Ben64> seriously have any of you installed windows from cd
<Ben64> its frustrating as hell
<daftykins> is... is it a mac!?
<nacc> once, long ago
<OerHeks> i have a fresh sealed 95 ..
<daftykins> what do you mean? the installer since 7 has been super easy
<Ben64> of course a computer comes set up and working fine with windows from the manufacturer
<Ben64> you still need to hunt down drivers everywhere
<daftykins> oh you just mean driver hell?
<tgm4883> I've installed windows 8.1 and previous from CD. Windows 10 via ISO to a VM
<daftykins> nah not with 8 and 10 anymore, as it goes
<Ben64> i'm sure it'll happen there too
<tgm4883> it's no more frustrating that installing Ubuntu
<daftykins> they've developed a habit of everything being published to Windows Update, so with 10 you no longer have to install anything
<tgm4883> except the post install updates
<Ben64> much more frustrating than ubuntu
<daftykins> nah i'm dead serious, once you get a 10 install online it grabs everything off WU and then it's done - nothing to do
<Ben64> ubuntu you need to get graphics and usually thats it
<Ben64> daftykins: unless it doesn't have the network driver
<daftykins> *nod* only very new stuff lacks that though
<nacc> lol
<Ben64> so annoying
<nacc> "< Valkyrie115> I had sound driver issues in Windows 10 as well"
<daftykins> but that's one versus all of them as it used to be
<nacc> i thought windows was perfect :)
<Ben64> oh damn he came back
<dax> my Windows 10 USB stick has network drivers for the relevant cards on it now thanks to that
<tgm4883> daftykins: to be fair, that's usually the issue with Linux driver support as well. Only really new stuff
<daftykins> seriously is it a mac?
<OerHeks> most of my 54 mbit wlan adapters work OOTB, and have saved my day more than once
<dax> but yeah, once you bootstrap that Windows Update tends to be able to do most of the rest
<daftykins> tgm4883: *nod* and pesky manufacturers that break standards etc
<daftykins> the truth never told is that all OSs suck, we just pick the one we mind cleaning up the mess of the least
<Ben64> back to sound issue i guess?
<Ben64> dude can't focus on one thing
<nacc> daftykins: absoutely, it's all tradeoffs in different directions
<nacc> daftykins: easiest thing these days is to research your hardware if possible and buy something that needs the least tweaking :)
<daftykins> yip yip, although everywheres so full of old info it can be a struggle
<tgm4883> nacc: daftykins since I've been doing that, I've had 0 issues that I can recall
<nacc> daftykins: yeah, that's absolutely the truth of it now, so much outofdate stuff
<OerHeks> issue-jumpers ...
<tgm4883> it's a good thing I don't have OP in #ubuntu
<daftykins> truth be told i miss being in there to keep current, not that i use or even support Linux distros in meatspace :)
 * tgm4883 goes back to building a space station
<dax> Kerbal?
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-06-29
<dax> if so: one of these days I should probably play that game until I successfully land something. last time I poked at it the flights were very... one-way
<tgm4883> yea
<tgm4883> My space station is a nasty mess right now
<daftykins> Kerbicide
<Ben64> you can make spacestations in ksp?
<tgm4883> Ben64: yea. With stock, it's limited to just joining pieces together with the little docking ports. But with mods, apparently your kerbals can get out and attach struts and stuff
<tgm4883> I've got a mission to make a moon base somehow too
<Ben64> i should buy that game
<tgm4883> I think it's pretty fun
<tgm4883> There's a mod that adds multiplayer too
<tgm4883> which is neat
<OerHeks> hmmm
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> morning
<BluesKaj> hi all
<tgm4883> nacc: how come we can't have more polite people like that
<nacc> tgm4883: global statistics -- it's not just us, in my experience (meaning amongst the many people I interact with daily, we're hitting the same statistics of nice people). Then again, I blame the hipsters in Portland for that :)
<tgm4883> nacc: you're in portland?
<nacc> tgm4883: yep
<tgm4883> nacc: nice, I work in Lake Oswego
<nacc> tgm4883: small world! :)
<tgm4883> lol, I feel like I should  have known that since we're both in the oregon channel
<nacc> tgm4883: heh, just made that connection myself :)
<dax> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-June/039420.html
<nacc> dax: yep, and shuttleworth chimed in a bit later :)
<tgm4883> dax: sounds like a plan to me
<nacc> sarnold's point is very good, though (same thread), providing i386 in a non-LTS and then removing it in the next LTS gives users no support path. Seems better to remove it in 16.10
<tgm4883> nacc: I was going to argue against that but then I read his whole response and it makes sense to me. Dropping isos for 16.10, although the i386 repos should remain through 2021
<nacc> tgm4883: right, just don't let there be new installs (aiui) easily
<nacc> it sounds like mini and other d-i automated builds might still exist
<daftykins> 32-bit is getting the chop? nice
<nacc> tgm4883: looks like slangasek chimed in, so the 18.04 plan will stick :)
<tgm4883> nacc: nice. All this is kinda a moot point for me. All my boxes run amd64, and I'm probably dropping the Mythbuntu ISO completely
<nacc> tgm4883: yeah, i've not touched i386 in some time, except when debugging issues other people hit :)
<daftykins> i still run my IRC and small web server VM here as 32-bit to reduce RAM use, but other than that niche i don't think i'd run anything 32-bit, mmm
<nacc> daftykins: was/is it a noticeable memory consumption difference?
<daftykins> i can't say i've seen any numbers first hand, so it might be more in my head by this point
<daftykins> only got 4GB RAM in my file server sadly :/ old school DDR2 core 2 duo still for now
<nacc> daftykins: np
<daftykins> little 14.04 running apache and irssi :)
 * tgm4883 just found out we have to move a data center :(
<daftykins> ruh roh
<Bashing-om> tgm4883: Sweat condition 5, and big bucks to make it happen ?
<tgm4883> Bashing-om: possibly. We have some other guys that deal with the hardware more than I do, so they'll travel and move everything. But it means failing over applications to the DR site which is a fair amount of work
 * tgm4883 blames the brits
<daftykins> pulling servers out of London?
<tgm4883> yep
<daftykins> seems a bit knee-jerk
<Bashing-om> overtime ! and the real big bucks ! Oh what joy !
<tgm4883> We already have clients calling about it
<Bashing-om> Bringing up a data center, no matter how much testing is done prior to going live, always those side issues not aware of . Ouch, where did that truck come from ?
<tgm4883> Bashing-om: +1
<Bashing-om> Gonna go cut grass for a bit .. be back soonest .
<Bashing-om> Aaaaannndddd back .
<OerHeks> Hay
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> grass all murdered?
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Unfortunately not ALL .. 6 acres .. a bit at the time . It never ends till it snows .
<daftykins> :O
<Bashing-om> I get around just in time to start all over .
<JanC> buy a sheep/goat/donkey
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-06-30
<Bashing-om> JanC: Goats have been under consideration .. does that also entail a milk pail ?
<JanC> only after you get them pregnant
<OerHeks> ÅiÅ Kebab :-D
<Bashing-om> Not me !!
<OerHeks> how about putting an Rpi on that machine?
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Rpi ?
<OerHeks> raspberry pi
<Bashing-om> Well that Rpi would ease the boredom of going round and round !
<daftykins> here's Bashing-om's place in the future - https://vine.co/v/inOMT1AIT92
<Bashing-om> Hide it ! Do not let my Wife see !!
<daftykins> >:D
<Bashing-om> I am closing down for the evening, yall have fun without me :)
<ducasse> morning, all
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<BluesKaj> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<pauljw> now i remember why i don't help these morons
<BluesKaj> yeah I saw that :-)
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> sometimes I wonder why some users even bother asking when they constantly object to our suggestions because they can't be bothered to tell us their preferences
<pauljw> i don't get it either.  the guy's so brilliant that he's not using a gui, why can't he figure out how to upgrade?
<BluesKaj> yeah, he's got his update manager set to LTS
<BluesKaj> personally i find the update manager a pita ...don't need it setting a default for me
<pauljw> i don't see why he doesn't just do a fresh install on his new system that has nothing on it yet.  again, that's just my uneducated opinion.
<BluesKaj> I wasn't aware of his whole situation, that he was ssh'd into remote pc
<pauljw> oh, he's just now mentioning that...  he's an ass.
<pauljw> he's on my ignore list.  so i'm not seeing anything he's saying.  i'll be back later, have to jump in the shower and run a bunch of errands...  have fun!!
<BluesKaj> PaulW2U:  ok , later
<daftykins> \o
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins
<daftykins> how goes it?
<BluesKaj> good, just ordered the rpi 3 cankit ...looking forward some kit fun
<BluesKaj> to
<daftykins> ooh nice
<BluesKaj> https://www.canakit.com/raspberry-pi-3-ultimate-kit.html
<daftykins> i'm attacking my old core 2 quad desktop today, it's giving me some annoying hassle that might end up requiring a new motherboard
<daftykins> wow that's a lot of bits!
<BluesKaj> dual core is what I'm using here, old amd 5200+
<BluesKaj> was going to oder the 64 bit T3 with more memory etc , but it's too much money considering what i'm going to use it for
<daftykins> T3?
<daftykins> wow i've done a full disassemble and rebuild of my old machine - it's working now
<BluesKaj> nice daftykins ;-0
<BluesKaj> oops  :-)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> it might still misbehave if it's off the mains for an hour
<coenraad> Hello everybody,from a cozy bar in front of a fireplace at a wintery Debconf Cape Town
<nacc> coenraad: did you see ubottu's hint in #ubuntu?
<daftykins> i hope your drinks are open source
<nacc> heh
<coenraad> Everything is open source if there's enough alcohol involved :-p
<coenraad> in fact, "free software" if you will
<coenraad> So I see we're plotting a "peaceful takeover" of Microsoft...
<coenraad> nacc: yes thanks
<daftykins> i'll take that to be referring to bug #1
<ubot5> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> hey EriC^^ o/ how goes sir?
<EriC^^> :D
<EriC^^> hey daftykins
<EriC^^> good thanks you?
<daftykins> yep much the same :) just done a full rebuild of my old core 2 quad as it was misbehaving
<EriC^^> nice
<daftykins> thought i was going to have to spend Â£60 on a motherboard off ebay!
<EriC^^> hehe
<coenraad> :-D He's been working on this for a while....... good going! Sigh..... we're all on the same team aren't we... I stumbled across Bill Gates' "open letter to the hobbyist computer community" in the Altair days while waiting in a library the other day... interesting progression from there to where Microsoft is today, but you can see the pain that caused Microsoft there already
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zd7g9i682g6izyk/AAC7AcXwqim9XwkH7q9_pIGCa?dl=0
<daftykins> she's a golden oldie
<coenraad> Mr. Gates' gripe was that there's no good software - and his reasoning was that nobody was willing to pay for software...
<daftykins> coenraad: no i don't tend to go in for the whole chip on my shoulder about OSs rubbish myself
<daftykins> back shortly
<coenraad> ... so he proceeded to create a whole ecosystem making software attractive and worth paying for.... yet.... I have the same pain that he had so long ago... TODAY!!!!
<coenraad> In fact... software arguably sucks even more today
<coenraad> So this is my pain.
<coenraad> And it's been sucking progressively more over the last 10 years... getting better in some ways but just generally sucking more, especially to newcomers. I have a small stroke every time I contemplate the route of a line of code takes to the CPU and back.
<coenraad> It will take a real visionary, charismatic, rich, influential, respected all-rounder with a lot of patience, dedication and humility to make a change in the way software works today... I honestly thought we'd have moved along much further, way beyond struggling with namespaces, syntax ... text... by now. I think in 10 years from now we'll look back at how people today are writing code the same way we look back at papyrus in ancient Egypt
<coenraad> For heaven's sake... I have how many gigaflops at my disposal and I'm bottlenecked by missing semi colons or misaligned tabs
 * coenraad *really*
<coenraad> ...How does this relate to Ubuntu... Well Ubuntu has some of the ingredients of liberating us from the kludges of technology...
<daftykins> not really, everything is at the mercy of the humans who write it
<coenraad> true
<coenraad> although, we're all captives of our situation.. our situation shapes our imagination which in turn shapes our world...
<daftykins> i think you're thinking a bit too big to fit into the topic here :P
<coenraad> Peaceful takeover of Microsoft?
<nacc> that's not the topic here  :)
<daftykins> you might want to type "/topic"
<coenraad> Lol
<coenraad> I think most people's problem with Microsoft is that Microsoft has not issued any real road map... it's a complex issue, but everything is connected at some level...
<coenraad> I'll get on topic -
<coenraad> Microsoft is pushing a hardware agenda:
<nacc> ... that's not ontopic still ...
<coenraad> They progressively slow down their software (just like apple) in order to promote an IT Support industry who promotes selling more and better hardware
<coenraad> and this all drives the computing cycle
<tsimonq2> coenraad: please keep on topic
<coenraad> Okay, getting to the topic, bear with me
<nacc> coenraad: you know this isn't a canonical channel, right? this is for volunteers who work on ubuntu (just like #ubuntu). And it's about Ubuntu. Not Windows.
<coenraad> yes
<daftykins> i'm ignoring you now, you're a prime example of the #1 nutjobs freenode attracts
<tsimonq2> daftykins: hey now, no need to insult
<coenraad> daftykins: please don't judge me prematurely... give me a moment - if you insist, I will rather do a blog post and share a link... but this relates very closely to Ubuntu. I have switched a lot of people and organisations from Windows to Ubuntu...
<tsimonq2> coenraad: blog posts are good ;)
<nacc> coenraad: it's taking a long time to get to the point... we're all educated Ubuntu users. tl;dr it for us
<coenraad> tsimonq2: also time consuming, and it would be great to get some input before I write them... ?
<coenraad> nacc: ok fair point, you're quite patient
<nacc> coenraad: as of right now, it's a semi-rant about what microsoft is "doing" to the industry
<coenraad> I'll try say it in a very short sentence - question is "Ubuntu in 10 years" and relates to this Canonical/MS venture
<nacc> none of us are deciding the roadmap for Ubuntu in 10 years (afaict) :)
<coenraad> The main hurdle to me replacing Windows with Ubuntu, is "Libreoffice isn't similar enough to MS Office"
<coenraad> And MS office doesn't run the same on Linux as it does on Windows
<nacc> that seems like a libreoffice issue...
<coenraad> Yes - but it is holding back Ubuntu in a big way
<nacc> is it really? or is that your opinion?
<coenraad> I don't even advertise and I get more than 10 calls a day from people who accidentally upgraded to Windows 10 whose computers are now unusable
<coenraad> because Win10 is too slow
<nacc> honestly, who uses a desktop anymore? OEM desktop vendors are dying, which is where office clients matter; otherwise it's all remote/cloud
<coenraad> Easy solution is to put Ubuntu on there, which runs great on most of those systems
<nacc> :)
<coenraad> Everyone who uses a spreadsheet or wordprocessor uses a desktop
<coenraad> so thats pretty much everyone who runs a business
<nacc> ... google would disagree
<nacc> as would microsoft, i think
<nacc> so what you said was "The main hurdle to me replacing Windows with Ubuntu, is "Libreoffice isn't similar enough to MS Office"", which to me makes it sounds like you want Ubuntu to be just like Windows. The point, to me, is rather that Ubuntu can be better/different than Windows.
<nacc> s/Windows/Microsoft garbage/
<coenraad> Now, nothing would please me more than to go out and replace all Windows 10 machines with Ubuntu
<coenraad> But people are stuck in their ways and want MS Office - many people are in their 60's and don't want to learn new things
<coenraad> they just want to send email, do spreadsheets and wordprocessing
<coenraad> and use the shortcuts they know
<coenraad> and don't want to feel stupid for not being able to figure out how to do something they've been doing for 20 years
<coenraad> nacc: exactly - emphasis on *can*
<nacc> so let them?
<coenraad> nacc: the freedom to choose, not be dictated how to use
<coenraad> nacc: not be dictated when to change and how and to what, but on your own time, or stay the same if you like without having to jump through hoops to do it
<nacc> coenraad: yes, but you just said you want libreoffice to be like ms office. Which necessitates being bad like ms office.
<nacc> coenraad: compatibility has its costs...
<daftykins> might be best not to feed it, nacc
 * nacc is sorry if a 60-year old feels stupid, but i'm not sure how that's Ubuntu's fault.
<nacc> daftykins: yeah, i might be done
<coenraad> Options: 1) Sell them faster hardware 2) Downgrade them to Windows 7 3) Really soften them up, and explain to them a good reason to learn a new office program... (which is tedious and time consuming) I would like an option 4) Install Ubuntu + MS office (or Libreoffice that has same shortcuts) and they can keep using their perfectly fine computer...
<nacc> coenraad: talk to microsoft or the libre folks.
<coenraad> So as part of the Ubuntu on Windows, I think the Ubuntu partnership should push an agenda that goes both ways...
<coenraad> Well sorry I mean Canonical
<nacc> coenraad: fine, then talk to Canonical...
<nacc> coenraad: this isn't a Canonical channel
<coenraad> yes, I noticed... where is the best place to talk to the people at Canonical so that I can be sure to craft my message in a digestible format before I just piss people there off too? :-/
 * coenraad battery critical
<nacc> coenraad: i assume you can find it on the canonical or ubuntu webpages, dunno
<ducasse> coenraad: post to the devel-discuss mailing list?
<coenraad> I love how code / development / ubuntu focused you guys are...
<tgm4883> err, if you want MS office to run on linux, I'm not sure why you think talking to canonical is going to make that happen
<coenraad> I just want to be able to help people extend the life of their computers and helping them not have to spend lots of money on support or admin
<coenraad> Canonical seems to know diplomacy...
<coenraad> So we'll see
<tgm4883> coenraad: so just spending money on training then
<tgm4883> coenraad: also, not sure why you think canonical seems to know diplomacy
<tgm4883> (one could argue the exact opposite)
<DArqueBishop> MS Office for Linux isn't likely, but it's possible. After all, MS is porting SQL Server to Linux...
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-01
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<dagelf> Good morning!
<lotuspsychje> hi dagelf
<brushdemon> https://i.imgur.com/DYW4SXZ.png
<ducasse> morning!
<brushdemon> hola
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<pauljw> hi everyone
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw, how's it going today?
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj, so far so good, how about you?
<BluesKaj> fine, finally some rain , too bad it's our Canada Day Holiday tho
<BluesKaj> 149 yrs as a country
<pauljw> dang, that's too bad, hope you can don the raingear and enjoy the celebrations anyway...
<BluesKaj> well, there's a beer garden tent at the local elks grounds, might check it out later
<BluesKaj> damn does kodi ever heat up my gpu, was over 100C a few mins ago
<pauljw> ouch
<BluesKaj> closed kodi and its back down to 80
<pauljw> not familiar with kodi, it that the multi-media center?
<BluesKaj> yeah, formerly known as XBMC
<BluesKaj> I just use it for internet tv
<pauljw> :)
<DaniKitten> Hi
<DaniKitten> What's your favorite game here?
<nacc> DaniKitten: offtopic ?
 * nacc doesn't consider that "high quality" :)
<DaniKitten> On Ubuntu
<DaniKitten> Well, I got Liquidwar, is very good
<tsimonq2> nacc: well *technically* it's a favorite *Ubuntu* game, so... :P
<nacc> heh
 * nacc loves mines
<tsimonq2> I don't play games
<DaniKitten> heh
 * nacc was being sarcastic and agrees with tsimonq2 
<daftykins> DaniKitten: i thought your favourite game was coming in here and boring us about how you refuse to let go of an old rubbish machine ;)
<tsimonq2> oh snap
<Bashing-om> Gonna go prune grass in the east 40. back soonest .
<OerHeks> carefull with all those tornadoes and selfdriving cars!
<daftykins> ^
<Bashing-om> I was not as carefull as I should have been ! Blowed out a tire .. tomorrow is time enough to see if I can boot the tire's hole .
<daftykins> doh!
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-02
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: WB ! Long time no read . Business goes well ?
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: yep, ive started the paperwork
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: logo is being built, website also
<Bashing-om> Ya been a busy little boy ! No idle mind there :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<Bashing-om> Closing down for this session; Yall have fun without me, K ?
<ducasse> morning all!
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse how are you?
<ducasse> good, and you?
<lotuspsychje> fine, tnx my logo is being created :p
<ducasse> cool :)
<lotuspsychje> domain is also preserved
<lotuspsychje> for start it will be only in dutch
<lotuspsychje> when i gain more popularity ill add english later
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<ducasse> do you expect to start exporting machines eventually?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: you mean to other countries?
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: yes
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: sure, why not im not going to bound it only local
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: i just wanna wait how popular it will be or not at the start, cause english website will cost me more also
<Ben64> why?
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: its a hosting company i know
<Ben64> seems like just have site.com/en/ or something
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: but it would need translating right?
<Ben64> yeah, but i think you know english
<lotuspsychje> yes, but im not the one building the website
<Ben64> oh
<lotuspsychje> its with webshop etc, so bit complicated
<lotuspsychje> lemme show you the created logo
<lotuspsychje> http://oi65.tinypic.com/jsyagw.jpg
<ducasse> that's pretty cool, lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> tnx ducasse
<Ben64> kind of similar to a chinese place i got a flyer for today\
<lotuspsychje> mean re-source your computer
<lotuspsychje> ill set the focus on converting old machines to ubuntu + ssd
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: when do you expect the website to be up?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: 1 month i think
<lotuspsychje> im also doing alot of paperwork aswell
<lotuspsychje> legal stuff
<Ben64> did you have to get the ok from ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: ive tryed to contact canonical and theyve sent me a default page
<lotuspsychje> so didnt get too far yet on that
<lotuspsychje> lemme see if i can refind the mail
<ducasse> for using the logo+name, or for setting up computers with ubuntu?
<lotuspsychje> both
<lotuspsychje> think i need something like system76's disclaimer
<lotuspsychje> https://system76.com/disclaimer
<lotuspsychje> explaining the ubuntu logo is not part of my business, etc
<ducasse> now that they want money from vps providers i guess they could try something similar for those who sell ubuntu computers...
<lotuspsychje> well i dont mind paying canonical, but i just dont want troubles afterwards
<lotuspsychje> its ubuntu i need on the machines, so i wont bypass saying its a linux Os lol
<lotuspsychje> http://www.ubuntu.com/about/contact-us
<ducasse> i'm not sure i think you *should* have to pay them, but that's a different discussion...
<lotuspsychje> think thats a trademark issue?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: depends how canonical thinks about using ubuntu's logo/name on my site
<ducasse> for use of the trademark, yes. but you won't be saying you represent them, will you?
<lotuspsychje> no
<lotuspsychje> but pictures of hardware might show the ubuntu desktop/logo/name
<ducasse> i honestly don't know how that works.
<lotuspsychje> ill try to resend an email
<lotuspsychje> sended
<ducasse> argh, i need to install a new cpu cooler today on my desktop, and i'm so not looking forward to it.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: why's that?
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: need to disassemble just about everything, it's a really big noctua thing.
<lotuspsychje> oh thats a pain indeed
<ducasse> plus, i'm always nervous about breaking  something expensive, when fiddling around the cpu
<lotuspsychje> is it own build or brand box?
<ducasse> own build, i buildt it last summer.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: ive placed a new cpu cooler kina like noctua on my abit mobo aswell
<lotuspsychje> with speed tuning at front
<ducasse> my case has a fan speed thing at the back, but i just keep it at full. it's so quiet anyway...
<lotuspsychje> yeah i also like full speed
<ducasse> i'm using the stock intel cooler now, and it gets hot under full load. i rarely run the cpu at full tilt, but want to be able to, for encoding video and such.
<lotuspsychje> i see
<ducasse> i've got a load of dvd's i want to watch on my rpi, so i need to rip+encode them. on the stock cooler the cpu goes up to 80Â°C.
<lotuspsychje> wow
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: playing with handbrake?
<ducasse> yes :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: never tested it myself, how long does a rip take?
<ducasse> 80Â° is not dangerous, but it's not beneficial either. on my 4790K a rip of a full length movie takes about 15-20 mins, i think.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> i messed with rmvb rips in the past
<lotuspsychje> to get small rips
<ducasse> rmvb? *googles*
<lotuspsychje> i could get a 700mb into like 200-300mb rip with rmvb
<ducasse> that's not bad, but i just use h.264. might switch to h.265 when i get a media box that supports it properly.
<ducasse> disk is cheap :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<ducasse> what's the quality like of rmvb?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: not too bad, but that depends wich quality your used to
<ducasse> it's just surprising they can leave so much data out if the quality is not to go down
<lotuspsychje> didnt test on ubuntu, think it was a win prog to rip to rmvb
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<ducasse> \o
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-03
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> hi Lotus
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: http://oi65.tinypic.com/jsyagw.jpg
<OerHeks> Yes, nice logo
<lotuspsychje> logo for my business
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/mycroft-ai-intelligent-personal-assistant-now-available-on-kde-plasma-desktops-505926.shtml
<OerHeks> heh i tried google voice search, but no way to get a decent result
<lotuspsychje> on smartphone there are few voice apps working pretty good
<lotuspsychje> but not yet for ubuntu touch
<lotuspsychje> siri lookalikes for android
<lotuspsychje> laterz guys working time :p
<ducasse> morning, all
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<pauljw> hi EriC^^ :)
<EriC^^> hi pauljw :)
<daftykins> lemme paste this in here too;
<daftykins> https://gamesdonequick.com/ SGDQ starts shortly! it's a charity event where people show how they speedrun games :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-06-26
<lordievader> Good morning
<oerheks> omg... please disable hyperthreading on "Skylake" and "Kaby Lake" .. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/06/msg00308.html
<lordievader> If only I could -.-
<lordievader> Asus better quickly release the uefi update.
<lordievader> Luckily it is only triggered under certain workloads.
<oerheks> i read someone about a newer intel-microcode
<oerheks> http://news.softpedia.com/news/debian-devs-urge-intel-skylake-and-kaby-lake-users-to-disable-hyperthreading-516654.shtml
<lordievader> For Skylake microcode is available, yes.
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj, how are you doing?
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader, fine here, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here too :)
<EriC^^> hey guys
<lordievader> Hey EriC^^, how are you?
<BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lordievader BluesKaj
<EriC^^> good thanks, you?
<lordievader> Doing good here too :)
<EriC^^> :)
<ducasse> hi all
<EriC^^> hey ducasse
<EriC^^> how are you?
<ducasse> good thanks, and you?
<EriC^^> good as well :)
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse, been on vacation?
<ducasse> no, spent a few days in hospital (heart thingy). back now, though :)
<BluesKaj> but you're ok now ...good !
<ducasse> i'm good yes, thanks :)
<ducasse> how are you BluesKaj? going anywhere this summer?
<ducasse> or you,, EriC^^?
<BluesKaj> I'm fine thanks ducasse, we're sticking around the house for most of the summer. We'll be travelling south to visit our Son and Daughter and their families the cuople weeks of August
<BluesKaj> the last couple weeks, that is
<ducasse> not going anywhere myself, most likely. might go visit my mother + sister and the kids for a few days, but nothing major. can't take the cat with me, and don't like leaving her :)
<EriC^^> ducasse: good to hear you're doing better, i'm not travelling anywhere this summer, i'm pretty broke :D
<immu> take her with you in a nice kitty carry bag
<immu> hi all
<EriC^^> maybe next summer if i can put aside some money, i'd like to visit europe more
<ducasse> \o immu
<BluesKaj> Windsor, Toronto and Montreal is a bit of a drive, but  we do it every yr... no pets to worry about
<immu> ducasse, hi all
<immu> :)
<ducasse> EriC^^: where would you like to go?
<EriC^^> london
<ducasse> you've never been?
<BluesKaj> hi immu
<EriC^^> nope
<ducasse> i love london personally, been there 10+ times.
<EriC^^> nice
<EriC^^> what is your favorite place there?
<EriC^^> or one of your favorites
<ducasse> of sightseeing stuff? i really liked british museum, london tower and museum of natural history.
<EriC^^> cool
<ducasse> shopping there is great of course, if that's your thing.
<EriC^^> aha
<EriC^^> shopping is always fun especially for gadgets and stuff
<EriC^^> i think the most nice stuff would be the architecture and general culture
<EriC^^> have you ever been to scottland or ireland?
<EriC^^> i hear the landscapes and stuff are very nice
<immu> :)
<ducasse> unfortunately not, always wanted to see edinburgh in particular.
<EriC^^> aha
<ducasse> dublin would also be a cool place to visit, i bet
<BluesKaj> We were planning a euro trip and started saving for it a few yrs ago, but our dollar has lost 25% of it's value, so a trip to Europe basically beyond our budget now....it's a shame, but we put the money to good use around our house instead.
<EriC^^> a few days ago the ethereum coin market crashed cause somebody decided to make a market order sell of $30million worth of it, it went down to $0.11, some people bought it at that price, basically if you bought worth $1000 you'd have $3million in few seconds when it goes back to $300-ish
<EriC^^> lots of people lost a ton of money cause of stop losses and margin calls when it crashed, the exchange said they're going to reimburse them from their own wallet :D
 * BluesKaj googles ethereum coin market
<EriC^^> it's a fork of bitcoin, except it's more business-y  and has "smart contracts" it might become very widely used, it reached $400 per 1 ether
<EriC^^> i finally got a netflix account to watch movies, and they're having technical difficulties today xD
<EriC^^> working now :)
<ducasse> what are you using as a player - pc with browser?
<BluesKaj> my former ISP keeps snding me brochures adressed to our location telling us their fibre optics servcie is available here, , but when I checked on thir site our location still only offers dsl 6mb service, so emailed them accusing them of false advertising and bait and switch tactics. The next day I got a phone from the ISP rep apologizing profusely for any misunderstanding.
<ducasse> "misunderstanding", sure...
<BluesKaj> to me it looked like  delberate attempt to bait and switch the the technically challenged customer
<BluesKaj> and they also advertised fibre optics right to the customers house, which is also untrue . It's fibre to the nearest node then plain old twisted copper phone line from ther to the customer's residence.
<BluesKaj> crooks
<ducasse> isps often are
<BluesKaj> we do have a cable co fibre optics internet , tv, and phone services available , but the cost is much too high for my budget (fixed income )
<immu> we have fiber optic connection right to my DP port in my house
<immu> DP panel
<immu> https://launchpad.net/~nschloe/+archive/ubuntu/intel-microcode-backports
<immu> https://launchpad.net/~nschloe/+archive/ubuntu/intel-microcode-backports
<immu> FYI ]
<immu> FYI
<BluesKaj> we're in a small town, but the cable co here runs fibre optics right to their customer's homes and it's quite expensive so they expect you to sign a contract for 2 yrs minimum for bundled services, TV, internet and phone
<immu> similar to triple play services of ours
<BluesKaj> yup, very popular with most ISP, and convenient for customers
<immu> we to have a lock-in for two years
<immu> for most services
<BluesKaj> I've seriously considerd switching to their basic package, but I see little advantage in a doubling of costs for us since faster internet doesn't really do much
<immu> brb amigos going out
<immu> need to visit few homes
<immu> byeee
<ducasse> BluesKaj: they can bundle stuff here as well, but that's entirely up to the customer. you get some discounts etc if you do, though.
<BluesKaj> yeah ducasse, there are discounts for new customers , but after 6mos or so it's full price here
<ducasse> how expensive is a basic package?
<BluesKaj> around 150cdn, buit after 6mos it's closer to 200
<ducasse> per month?
<BluesKaj> that's for the 3 services
<BluesKaj> per month
<ducasse> wow. here i pay something like 35 usd for 250mbps + tv package and a few extras.
<BluesKaj> we have a large landmass is large with relatively small populationthat the initial infrastructure costs for fibre optics are very high, hence the high cost to the consumer
<ducasse> sure, i get that. now that low-latency satellite is coming maybe that would be an option?
<BluesKaj> my dsl service better than the sat internet services and much cheaper
<BluesKaj> dsl is limited to 6mb, but we can live with cost at 30cdn/mos and our phone at 25...my tv sat service is 60/mos
<ducasse> right. if dsl works for you everything is golden :)
<BluesKaj> yup, wife is happy , she can play Lord of the Rings Online without lag
<ducasse> :)
<BluesKaj> it's conistent
<BluesKaj> bbl, gotta give these old eyes a rest
<EriC^^> hi Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: !! .. Hoz things in Beirut ?
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: great, and the mid states?
<Bashing-om> All rosy here . Cool spell prior to the summer heat stting in . // Grand kids up to childish things keep us hopping !
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-06-27
<Bashing-om> !info plop
<ubot5`> Package plop does not exist in xenial
<lordievader> Good morning
<oerheks> lordievader \0/
<lordievader> Hey oerheks
<oerheks> MAAS on virtualbox, can that be done ?? ( wonders about #u )
<lordievader> What was MAAS again?
<oerheks> metal as a service .. provisioning bare-metal servers
<lordievader> So, this case provisioning virtual bare-metal servers, sounds plausible :P
<oerheks> ... but from virtualbox?
<oerheks> never seen that before
<immu> good afternoon here mates
<eagletraveler> What are we discussing?
<lordievader> eagletraveler: Just now, MAAS on virtualbox :P
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<jink> 'sup
<immu> hiiiii
<lordievader> o/
<immu> lordievader, how is the force today? for you?
<lordievader> Hey immu, doing good here. Seeing if jumbo frames increase bandwith on virtual bridges.
<lordievader> How are you?
<immu> i am good, watching standup comedy shows :)
<immu> so what are your observations lordievader
<lordievader> Currently, it doesn't matter. Without 30Gbits/s, with 30Gbit/s. But perhaps I made a config error.
<immu> is that your bandwith?
<immu> brb rebooting
<lordievader> That is for tcp, yes.
<lordievader> Host -> bridge -> vm.
<immu> hi all
<lordievader> Welcome back
<immu> thanks
<immu> brb
<immu> hi again
<immu> hi
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-06-28
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<lewisnguyen> hello
<lewisnguyen> anyone here?
<immu> yes
<oerheks> Roses are red, violets are blue, i like green.
<ducasse> \o oerheks
<daftykins> my my they're so patient
<daftykins> hi folks \o
<oerheks> heya daftykins
<oerheks> How is life in your fresh home, settled?
<immu> now everyone is awake
<immu> :)
<daftykins> oerheks: not bad thanks, ah not even close to finished! how are things with you and Drabber?
<ducasse> hehe, mischief also like dreamies? ;)
<daftykins> ooh yes
<ducasse> luna loves the purple ones
<daftykins> they had a pack with a little ball toy at the cattery so i treated her with that pack on her birthday :D
<ducasse> we've got this long tube with curves, a little ball inside and holes along the top so she can try to catch it. great success :)
<daftykins> ah yeah i think i've seen those
<ducasse> requires no human intervention :)
<daftykins> an automated toy :o
<daftykins> Mischief is very glad to have her staff back, that's for sure
<daftykins> i'm quite the expensive bed warmer
<ducasse> yup :) she hits the ball from one end to the other, and tries to get there before the ball does. if she doesn't, there's a spring that sends it back :)
<daftykins> XD
<oerheks> Drabber wants to go for a walk, never ending game ..
<ducasse> i found this great kipling story the other day - http://boop.org/jan/justso/cat.htm
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> much better formatted with the browser on half the screen
<ducasse> tiling <3
<daftykins> 'Nenni!' said the Cat.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that was neat, i like the explanation for the way things are
<ducasse> haven't read any kipling in years and years, so was fun to come across this
<daftykins> saw a few errors, wondered if it was OCR'd
<ducasse> probably.
<daftykins> have you guys read about the 6th and 7th gen intel core hyperthreading bug?
<daftykins> skylake and kaby lake
<immu> yes
<immu> you will need to install a intel microcode update
<immu> i had posted it here
<immu> hyper threading bug
<immu> ubot knows the link
<immu> ubot5, hyperthreading bug
<ubot5> immu: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<immu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/intel-microcode/+bug/1700373
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1700373 in intel-microcode (Ubuntu Yakkety) "intel-microcode should be updated for LTS releases, version 20170511 fixes severe errata on 6th and 7th generation platforms" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<immu> https://launchpad.net/~nschloe/+archive/ubuntu/intel-microcode-backports
<immu> daftykins, :)
<daftykins> yeah it's more involved than that
<daftykins> i didn't know what to do about it, just curious if the volunteers had encountered folk asking about it :)
<daftykins> er i mean i didn't need to know what to do about it *
<Bashing-om> procrastinate here for a while :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-06-29
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> \o lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey hey Bashing-om im on holiday :p
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Calling from London town ?
<lotuspsychje> not yet, we leaving tomorrow night Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> morning oerheks
<oerheks> hey lotus
<lotuspsychje> im having an old hp psc 1315 that doesnt wanna skip the allign page with the scan button, it just doesnt scan when i press, any clues?
<oerheks> what happens when you use the scan button in simplescan?
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: scan from hp software working, but with loud scan noise
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: and the allign wizard from software doesnt have a 'scan button' in procedure
<lotuspsychje> it just explains what to do, put the allign page into scanner blabla
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: its plugged from win8
<oerheks> hmmm no idea :-(
<lotuspsychje> i know every time i poweron the printer it will print the allign page, until its physically alligned tru the scanner
<lotuspsychje> but i just cant bypass
<oerheks> uh oh, waste of paper then
<oerheks> "After the test page is printed, disconnect the USB cable that is connecting the printer to your PC. Do not not turn off the printer while disconnecting the cable."
<oerheks> https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Printer-Software-and-Drivers/Alignment-Page-HP-PSC1315-prints-every-time-printer-is/td-p/224243
<oerheks> so you need to align, without usb attached
<oerheks> only powerrrrrrrrrr
<oerheks> no?
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: oh good find, ill try that next
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: what a weird procedure lol
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: ill test that in few days after holiday, tnx for the search mate
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, how are you?
<lotuspsychje> great lordievader in holiday
<lordievader> Nice, where?
<lotuspsychje> london lordievader
<lordievader> Nice
<lordievader> Now they are still somewhat part of the EU?
<lotuspsychje> brb breakfast
<lotuspsychje> no, the changhed back to pounds lordievader
<oerheks> Are you going to visit Blue Fin building too?
<oerheks> 5th floor?
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: They never had euros... But I mean, before the borders get difficult.
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: lol
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-06-30
<immu> hi all
<lordievader> Good morning
<immu> lordievader, good morning to you too
<lordievader> Hey immu, how are you doing?
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<immu> hi amigos
<oerheks> hi immu
<immu> hi all
<immu> whats up
<immu> hmm
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-01
<immu> hi
<lordievader> Good morning
<immu> lordievader, Goodafternoon here :)
<lordievader> Hey immu, how are you?
<immu> i am good, how about you?
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<immu> i am cool
<immu> howdy do
<immu> BluesKaj,  i got a Q for you about kdewallet
<BluesKaj> hi immu, I disable kwallet, I can't be bothered with it
<immu> oke, because when i log in i get asked for password to enable KDEwallet
<BluesKaj> that's where I open kwallet and disable it
<immu> i think i have disabled it,its a good place to keep your passwords but asking me everytime to enter my password is a annoying
<BluesKaj> yup
<lordievader> immu: If you set the same password for the Kwallet as the login password it should not ask you for it.
<immu> also i need to enter pasword right upon boot so that my wifi comes up
<lordievader> That password is also stored in the wallet, so if it is closed, you need to enter a password ;)
<BluesKaj> immu, cahge the setting in network manager wifi to all users and you will no lom=nger be asked for pw each time you boot or lofin
<BluesKaj> rr change
<immu> KDE wallet asks for password so that wifi psw comesup
<BluesKaj> login ...scuse the typos
<immu> my brain did autocorrect
<immu> also is any using PGP key for wallet?
<immu> GPG
<lordievader> Didn't KDE store the password plain text on your system if the all users flag was checked?
<immu> https://nwrickert2.wordpress.com/2016/08/19/taming-kdewallet/
<EriC^^> afternoon everyone
<oerheks> hey EriC^^ how is the weather?
<ducasse> \o oerheks (and drabber)
<ducasse> sunny here, not a cloud
<EriC^^> hey oerheks , very hot!
<EriC^^> what about you?
<oerheks> easy weather, sun breaking through at the end of day
<oerheks> maybe the quiet before the storm :-D
<EriC^^> :D
<oerheks> âª why does facebook take forever... âª
<oerheks> come on guys, help this facebook victim in #u
<ducasse> sorry, not touching that one :)
<oerheks> i have one solution, when nothing helps ..
<oerheks> http://geekussion.com/windows/block-facebook-hosts-file-windows-pc-99/#blocking-facebook-with-hosts-file
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-02
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<oerheks> interesting discussion in #u >  https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237
<immu> how di amigos
<Bashing-om> Are we live ?
<Bashing-om> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<oerheks> Â¡pang
<immu> yup
<immu> whats up
<immu> back
<Bashing-om> Missed ya immu // Slow Sunday all over .
<immu> is it Bashing-om
<oerheks> calendar -f /usr/share/calendar/calendar.lotr -A 365
<oerheks> calendar -f /usr/share/calendar/calendar.ubuntu -A 365
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Setting up your alander for the whole year ?
<Bashing-om> calendar*
<oerheks> we had 3 reruns of the trillogy this year, i am LOTR-tired
<BluesKaj> heh, wife plays LOTRonline ...never seems to get tired of it
<immu> hmm
<Guest98519>  /msg chanserv i must have  soul some gigers are to much giger and further no evil wants giger  and there are many and core and should not they and me must not be that thing or that thing it has been proven to be unnecessary because the cold war is done and must be for gigers more.  no more slam dokney.  some people cannot legally die.
<daftykins> noob
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-06-25
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> !schedule
<lotuspsychje> !release
<ubot5> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 9 months (non-LTS) or 5 years (LTS). More info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<lotuspsychje> !info gnome-startup-applications bionic
<ubot5> gnome-startup-applications (source: gnome-session): Startup Applications manager for GNOME. In component main, is optional. Version 3.28.1-0ubuntu3 (bionic), package size 31 kB, installed size 174 kB
<lotuspsychje> i wonder by they didnt default this
<lotuspsychje> why
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<pauljw> hi everyone
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw, how's things?
<hggdh> late morning all
<BluesKaj> 'Morning hggdh
<nacc> oerheks: i went ahead and put them in /ignore, what ended up happening? Just see a few lol and public logs haven't caught upyet
<oerheks> oh, he left
<oerheks> some do not want to read manuals, but do want to read us
<nacc> heh
<oerheks> waiting for that webqirc dude
<leftyfb> webqirc are different dudes
<oerheks> never seen so many the last few days ...
<nacc> amazing how they all seem like trolls eventually
<nacc> one mega-webqirc troll :)
<leftyfb> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/F3SFxGPYkc/
<oerheks> yes, ip changes, but that norda dude had changing ips too, probably tor
<leftyfb> norda?
<oerheks> that is one name he registered
<leftyfb> I don't have any logs for "norda"
<oerheks> oh sorry.. nordo
<oerheks> jun 23 01:04:56 <qwebirc53634>	i will be back with name "Nordo" :)
<leftyfb> https://www.dropbox.com/s/62ytsqqfvv6z3b2/Screenshot%20from%202018-06-25%2014-27-51.png?dl=0
<leftyfb> btw, works fine for me
<leftyfb> the instructions did fail to tell you that Ubuntu users need autoconf installed in order for the bootstrap.sh to run
<nacc> yes, that user sounded lazy, tbh
<oerheks> not just lazy, but so demanding
<leftyfb> to be fair, those instructions suck
<leftyfb> gotta read carefully. They lump all OS's in together
<leftyfb> my question is, why does someone who doesn't know how to compile code or refuses to read instructions carefully want with an encrypted chat that I personally have never heard of
<nacc> right
<oerheks> new google chrome, jippie
<oerheks> Version 67.0.3396.99
<Bashing-om> And ... UWN533 is out :)
<oerheks> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2018/06/25/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-533/
<oerheks> spÃ¡m
<oerheks> :-D
<Bashing-om> BUT .. it is good spam ..
<ducasse> evening, Bashing-om, oerheks
<ducasse> how are you guys
<oerheks> hi ducasse
<oerheks> as an extraordinarily low IQ person, simply fine :-D
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Good as I wipe the sweat off . Your coke going down well ?
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: I see that you have pchelp production ready :) Good man !
<ducasse> oerheks: i think about half my intelligence has melted away today, too hot :)
<oerheks> yes, we had lovely weather too, biking with drabber and such
<Bashing-om> :)
<Bashing-om> Heber Springs, AR: Temp: 90Â°F (32Â°C) ~ Scattered Clouds ~ Humidity: 59% ~ Wind: From the SSW at 10 MPH Gusting to 17 MPH ~ Observed: Mon 25, 15:55
<ducasse> not a fan of too much heat, hope it will be better tomorrow
<ducasse> this spring has been extreme
<oerheks> few more days an i can start peeling off skin
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Heat index here is climbing .. will be in the hundreds in a few days :(
<ducasse> oerheks: was in town all day, picked up quite a bit of color
<Bashing-om> ducasse: color - if ya come over to our house - and exercise the lawn mower will pick up more color :P
<ducasse> Bashing-om: lol, it's not that important to me, thank you :)
<andres_> hi anyone here?
<ducasse> almost always
<andres_> whats the normal temp for ubuntu on a laptop?my heat is going up even from mail...
<andres_> can i do something about it?
<andres_> or 50 celcius is ok?
<andres_> fam15h_power-pci-00c4
<andres_> Adapter: PCI adapter
<andres_> power1:       30.27 mW (avg =  54.64 mW, interval =   0.01 s)
<andres_>                        (crit =  15.00 W)
<andres_> acpitz-virtual-0
<andres_> Adapter: Virtual device
<andres_> temp1:        +42.0Â°C  (crit = +255.0Â°C)
<andres_> iwlwifi-virtual-0
<andres_> Adapter: Virtual device
<andres_> temp1:        +56.0Â°C
<andres_> amdgpu-pci-0008
<andres_> Adapter: PCI adapter
<andres_> fan1:             N/A
<andres_> temp1:        +48.0Â°C  (crit =  +0.0Â°C, hyst =  +0.0Â°C)
<ducasse> !paste
<ubot5> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use https://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use https://imgur.com/ !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<andres_> sorry guys im new to hex...
<andres_> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/GYjTCgHjMy/
<andres_> is there something i can do to make those numbers go down?htop shows i have 3 active programs,terminal,firefox and hex
<oerheks> looks normal to me
<andres_> )))ok...maybe im just paranoid eversince i got heat plugin installed
<oerheks> an  i5-3317u can run up to 105'C .. so that number looks pretty good
<Bashing-om> I love *NOT* when they bite the hand that feeds - nacc .
<nacc> Bashing-om: eh, they have a poor attitude
<Bashing-om> and ^ gets an ignore from me .
<oerheks> ubuntu should have a great modem manager in network manager, if it was buggy, i would find more bug reports, no?
<oerheks> is it just his device?
<nacc> oerheks: dunno, hard to say
<nacc> i expect so, or could be a buggy upgrade, etc.
<hggdh> too fast for me...
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-06-26
<rorqual> Hi all, pl
<rorqual> please, I've been hearing Ubunt has been developing in a different debian way in some aspects. I'd like to know in terms of percentage today, according Ubuntu Advanced Users and Developers: how much in terms of percentage, does remain Debian features and base in Ubuntu nowadays ?
<rorqual> how much 'debian' still remains in 'ubuntu' in terms or percentage ? 20, 30, 40% debian in ubuntu ? more than it, less than it ?
<tsimonq2> rorqual: We don't have those statistics readily available.
<guiverc> rorqual: i don't know where you've been listening; but to me ubuntu & debian are very close.  on podcasts I've heard people say (eg. m.wimpy) they push changes to debian knowing they'll flow thru to ubuntu.
<tsimonq2> ^
<rorqual> hi tsimonq2, thanks for answering ! fine guiverc, thanks a lot for your analysis :) let me think just for a while about your answer....
<rorqual> guiverc, please, this passage wasn't so clear for me: "...they push changes to debian knowing they'll flow thru to ubuntu."
<guiverc> rorqual: I also see canonical employees posting in planet.debian
<tsimonq2> rorqual: Ubuntu is roughly a fork of Debian
<tsimonq2> Packages autosync down to Ubuntu during the majority of the development cycle.
<rorqual> I see
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<rorqual> good morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey rorqual all good on your side?
<rorqual> more or less, lotuspsychje... trying to understand major differences between debian and ubuntu, rather their similarities
<lotuspsychje> !debian
<ubot5> Ubuntu and Debian are closely related. Ubuntu builds on the foundations of Debian architecture and infrastructure, with a different community and release process. See https://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/ubuntu-and-debian - !Repositories meant for Debian should NOT be used on Ubuntu!
<lotuspsychje> rorqual: as you in the ubuntu channels, we reccomend ubuntu
<rorqual> fine lotuspsychje, thanks for telling ubot5 to answer me !
<rorqual> a great bot here
<rorqual> I've been avoiding the idea of installing and testing ubuntu, but now, I realize Ubuntu is the commercial realization of a debian-based system, and one of the best business distribution options, in my opinion, outperforming Red Hat Enterprise Linux and SUSE.
<guiverc> rorqual: you realize debian is a stream; sid -> testing -> stable... -- if you compare debian-stable with ubuntu there are more differences than other comparisons  (18.10 with say debian buster-10)
<guiverc> (i don't like my last statement; unclear-messy sorry)
<rorqual> agree guiverc, I've been thinking about that in the same way you've mentioned now, when the question is debian stable vs ubuntu
<rorqual> I liked it
<rorqual> it was clear and fine
<rorqual> my only serious doubt about Ubuntu Server is: how did Canonical made possible the use ZFS in Ubuntu.... for, if I'm not wrong, it doesn't run natively in kernel linux, such as ext4, xfs, btrfs...
<rorqual> it's strange for Linux World the use of ZFS, but at the same time, a marvelous idea
<guiverc> rorqual: i can't help with zfs sorry, but I recall reading lots about it over the last ~6-11 months
<rorqual> you mean web sources, ok ?
<guiverc> mostly thru rss feeds; gnome/kde/debian/ubuntu/fedora/opensuse/freebsd/......
<lotuspsychje> !zfs | rorqual
<ubot5> rorqual: For information concerning ZFS and Ubuntu, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZFS
<lotuspsychje> updated page
<rorqual> fine guiverc, thanks ! thanks a lot for this Support, lotuspsychje !
<rorqual> how could I forget wiki in this case ? really thank you :)
<ducasse> good morning
<rorqual> good morning ducasse
<rorqual> bye all
<rorqual> and thanks again for great support and attention !
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> hi lordievader - how are you today?
<lordievader> Doing okay here. Quite busy. How are you, ducasse ?
<ducasse> i'm ok, hoping it will be a little less scorching today
<lordievader> Is it that hot over there?
<ducasse> over 30Â° yesterday
<ducasse> too much for me, us norwegians can't handle that
<LtWorf> eh i love when it's nice weather in sweden
<LtWorf> i'm sicilian, makes it bearable
<ducasse> then you're probably built to take it :)
<lordievader> Same here, 30C is too much.
<lordievader> Just give me 20-ish and I'm happy.
<ducasse> same here. or right now i'd prefer some rain, actually.
<LtWorf> u just have to accept that sweating is a natural body function :D
<oerheks_> public transport on strike, 25'C, tomorrow payday .. jolly afternoon
<blackflow> time to bike.
<oerheks_> yes, my dog likes that, https://www.dropbox.com/s/jmdxyqo3197gvp6/2018ride.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> :D so cute
<oerheks_> bike is completely disassembled, and without paint, tomorrow it will be blasted and powdercoated
<daftykins> \o/
<oerheks_> then rebuild, â¬170 on nuts & bolds & tires
<oerheks_> brakes, peddles and such
<daftykins> ok if i share that link to my other Dutch friend? :>
<oerheks_> sure
<daftykins> thanks :D
<daftykins> she's the one with the similar bike i believe
<oerheks_> oh there are a lot of brands, this is a 'FietsFabriek'
<oerheks_> good steel, good build, repairable..
<daftykins> that's what we like :)
<oerheks_> and .. in september i will get ... http://ebike-sales.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Bafang-bbs-1.jpg
<oerheks_> http://ebike-sales.co.uk/product/bafang-bbs01-250w-36v-mid-drive-conversion-kit
<daftykins> :D
<oerheks_> mi money runs faster than i thought :-(
<nacc> https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/features.html thinking about this one a lot lately
<oerheks_> oh carefull, those 3 wheels can tip over easily in a corner
<nacc> it leans
<oerheks_> that is why i am back on 2 wheels..
<nacc> articulated trike, that is
<nacc> but yeah, it can be a problem
<oerheks_> but oke, you can stand still on the road, without leaving the bike
<oerheks_> or step down
<oerheks_> surely handy with a dog/doggies or a lot of groceries
<oerheks_> .. or taking stuff home you find on the streets :-D
<JimBuntu> I would probably have to make 2 trips for groceries... I would want an additional trailer to pull
<nacc> heh
<oerheks_> wow, â¬4999 .... https://www.drbeykonline.nl/search?keywords=mk1-e
<nacc> yeah it's very expensive
<oerheks_> more expensive than Urban Arrow ( the nicest one)
<nacc> eah they are a direct competitor
<nacc> we are also looking at the UA
<oerheks_> they all have a chip now, i am putting one in too
<daftykins> you guys got me thinking so i finally phoned up my local bike shop and have reserved a 185mm rotor for my full suspension Specialized :)
<oerheks_> good :-)
<daftykins> wanna get that beauty back up and running well, front brake isn't too great right now
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> !info shotwell
<ubot5> shotwell (source: shotwell): digital photo organizer. In component main, is extra. Version 0.28.2-0ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 1805 kB, installed size 7284 kB
<lotuspsychje> hey there Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: main: big idling ZZzzzZZ
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Sure not like those "good ole days" . I find something else to keep me occupied .
<lotuspsychje> soon Bashing-om .1 !!
<oerheks_> :-)
<Bashing-om> Naw .. 18.04.1 will also be smooth ... Maybe some more Window refugees to teach  :P
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: https://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-is-used-all-over-the-world-reveal-initial-ubuntu-18-04-desktop-metrics-521685.shtml
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Interesting to say the least .. reported ^ in this weeks newsletter :)
<lotuspsychje> get ready for the masses
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> oerheks is ready to see .1 iso's...
<lotuspsychje> *seed
<pauljw> hi everyone
<oerheks> hi pauljw
<pauljw> hi oerheks :)
<nacc> adding another to /ignore oerheks ...
<oerheks> sorry for beiing rude
<nacc> oerheks: i don't think you were rude to them
<oerheks> oh i didn't hit enter "i undertand you didn't read the topic, so drop your attitude"
<oerheks> :-D
<nacc> they seemed to be a bit touchy to me, i had not reason to help them
<oerheks> well, i try to clear things up, that worked, but he shouldn't say elementary
<oerheks> really, some act like they have no mouse & access to bing
<nacc> yeah it's a bit confusing; oh wel
<oerheks> vbox performance will be great on zfs, i read
<oerheks> ubumoi
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-06-27
<guiverc_t> good pickup tomreyn ; i assumed it was lib path had to be set (was trying to find out how...)
<tomreyn> guiverc_t: yes it could be that, too. but i guess pidgin may not build libpurple by default, there's probably --with-libpurple or something
<guiverc_t> `sudo ldconfig` updates lib path for run-time linker  (or it did - 2013 askubu post -- if it was that one)
<tomreyn> good job guiverc_t :)
<guiverc_t> :)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> morning lordievader
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje , ducasse
<lordievader> How are you guys?
<ducasse> morning lordievader - all well here, thanks, and yourself?
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<ducasse> busy day ahead? :)
<lordievader> Yes, still have many papers to review.
<lordievader> How about you?
<ducasse> doing an ubuntu upgrade today, i mostly run arch on my desktop so the ubuntu install is still on artful. better fix that.
<lotuspsychje> !yay | ducasse
<ubot5> ducasse: Glad you made it! :-)
<lotuspsychje> i just love that linuxconfig site https://linuxconfig.org/watch-netflix-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux
<lordievader> ducasse: Have fun
<ducasse> thanks, you too :)
<lordievader> lotuspsychje_: It is much more fun trying to get Netflix to run on a Raspberry pi ð
<ducasse> i gave up on that pretty quick :)
<lordievader> It works.... sort of. The initial load time is quite long. But after that it works.
<ducasse> it would have been ideal to get a netflix addon for kodi, but i chickened out and bought a chromecast
<lordievader> There is one. Last time I tried it, it was in alpha or beta state and quite broken though -.-
<ducasse> yeah, that was my impression too.
<pauljw> hi everyone
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 60.0.2+build1-0ubuntu0.18.04.1 (bionic), package size 45249 kB, installed size 171244 kB
<oerheks__> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks__
<nacc> leftyfb: why does that require ops?
<leftyfb> it's a spammer
<nacc> oh ok
<leftyfb> hm. maybe not?
<nacc> i thought they were trying to join a channel
<leftyfb> they do have @nvidia.com... maybe my bad
<tomreyn> they do bad graphics drivers, but other than that, no reason for a ban
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-06-28
<daftykins> nvidia's drivers are great vs. AMD :)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I wandered away for a bit .. All I missed was to say HI when you returned :P
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Are you LotusComputerizing full time now ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: first ill stay part time, and have a short vacation
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: then i combine part time with gov payment
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: if i can crank it up, ill do fulltime
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Sounds like the plan :) .. So Far So Good .
<lotuspsychje> yeah the plans are on the table
<lotuspsychje> and time is on my side now
<Bashing-om> :D
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: also soon .1 comes out for existing customers & new ones..perfect timing?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Coincidence ? I think NOT - Prior Prudent Planning :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah fate comes togheter
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> \o lordievader - all well?
<lordievader> Doing good here. How are you?
<ducasse> ok so far, i think :)
<lordievader> ;)
<lotuspsychje> morning lordievader ducasse
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> all good lordievader warm, how about yourself? vacation in sight?
<lordievader> Doing good here.
<lordievader> Err, not really.
<lordievader> We had a vacation in April. No real plans for the summer.
<lotuspsychje> wow
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: come to belgium mate, we have much holidays here :p
<lordievader> Hahaha ð
<lotuspsychje> for the right cipher $$$$ i could sell a few days :p
<hggdh> good morning folks
<ducasse> \o
 * leftyfb shines hggdh's boots
<oerheks> now i want LUKS too
<leftyfb> and there it is
<leftyfb> I encrypt all my laptops with LUKS
<oerheks> Luks, Btrfs, ZFS,raid and LVM, write me a setup script please
<leftyfb> uh
<oerheks> .. and gnome must remember password!
<leftyfb> btrfs / zfs
<leftyfb> gotta pick one :)
<oerheks> ssssh, i have a heat stroke, walking Drabber
<oerheks> oh, i forgot, i want swap-exfat
<hggdh> there was an issue with synchronisation of LUKS passwords, IDK if it is still there
<leftyfb> hggdh: you mean in keyring or something
<oerheks> maybe a conflict with 2 entrances for luks pass ...
<hggdh> leftyfb: yes. Package is seahorse
<leftyfb> regardless, people shouldn't rely on "save password" to remember passwords. Especially for an encrypted drive
<hggdh> leftyfb: indeed. There are password managers for that
<leftyfb> or, I don't know, remembering the password to drive encryptions
<leftyfb> that's not like gmail where you can click "forgot my password"
<hggdh> Usually password changes for LUKS were (are?) done outside seahorse
<leftyfb> hggdh: I'm pretty sure you are right. I'm pretty sure if that guy had tried my suggestion of running cryptsetup and used his old password, he'd probably get in
<leftyfb> and since he messaged me to call me an asshole, I could verywell walk him through that.
<hggdh> I do sort of agree this is a bug, there should be a way to synchronise it
<hggdh> anyways, he is back in the channel, but keeping silent for now. Let's see how it goes
<leftyfb> feel free to use my suggestion if he asks again ... I won't be
<oerheks> make your luks password 16 char+, most rainbowtables are limited as microsoft has this limit too
<oerheks> qwerty x 5 is fine :-D
<leftyfb> I'm over 16 :)
<leftyfb> characters
<oerheks> our gov decided to make metasploit *and* nmap hackingtools, let see what this brings
<oerheks> like in Germany
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<pauljw> hi everyone
<EriC^> hi pauljw :)
<pauljw> hey EriC^ :)
<oerheks> like in Germany
<oerheks> oops
<oerheks> crazytux likes people send to him about distro comparison :-D
<nacc> ok, i don't care to deal with this person anymore
<oerheks> oke.
<nacc> oh good lord
<oerheks> hail the mighty pinguin
<oerheks> #bugshavelivestoo
<leftyfb> pretty sure he's just trolling you now
<oerheks> sure, but i promised to do no harm
<oerheks> he is safe :-D
<grg> bug shave live stoo
<grg> what's a stoo?
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-06-29
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 60.0.2+build1-0ubuntu0.18.04.1 (bionic), package size 45249 kB, installed size 171244 kB
<oerheks> nope, no update
<oerheks> :-(
<lotuspsychje> hmmz :p
<lotuspsychje> every new FF my speed dial has to be set again very anoying
<lotuspsychje> and i dont like that for my customers neither
<lotuspsychje> ill see what happens on 61, if its the same ill file a bug
<oerheks> too early https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/06/firefox-61-released-with-faster-tab-switching-on-linux
<hggdh> just a public announcement, given I have just seen such an issue (somewhere else, not germane right now): please make sure your pass(words|phrases) are non-trivial, not-reused, long, etc
<lotuspsychje> ok tnx hggdh
<oerheks> make it longer than 16 char :-)
<hggdh> aye aye
<oerheks> as windows has this limit ..
<hggdh> and add special chars, and what the hell else
<oerheks> :-D
<lotuspsychje> Bl4cKh4T535]0nW1ndoW$
<hggdh> (my password manager is set to create passwords 32 chars long. If a site is dumb enough not to accept it, I cut-and-paste to the limit)
<oerheks> i avoid managers, paper it is.
<lotuspsychje> yeah i buy i cheap notebook for my customers with all their passes
<lotuspsychje> wifi, websites,ubuntu admin,..
<hggdh> and I never ever reuse passwords. which means the password manager has a truck, no a train, load of passwords now
<hggdh> but, then, I am paranoid
<lotuspsychje> join the club :p
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: but you would be amazed how many customers got a full FF logged passwords set
<lotuspsychje> old FF==>exploit browser==>passwords stolen
<hggdh> this is the hell-on-earth thingy. You have to have stupidly long passphrases, and you cannot save them in FFox (or whatever).
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<hggdh> not counting with each site having different rules for passwords
<lotuspsychje> i see customers with different not reused passwords, but all very weak
<hggdh> and the fact you are able to see them should be a warning something is wrong. But, again, I am paranoid
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: did you check yourself yet? https://haveibeenpwned.com/
<lotuspsychje> millions are compromized
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: yeas, I have. Not 100% reliable, but if you get there...
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: tab warming, i like the sound of that
<hggdh> we need to find something, a different style of 2FA, that actually works.
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: i like security questions on login forms
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: then i answer it wrong lol
<lotuspsychje> what is your pet name?===>coward7965!!
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: I had/had a client that uses security questions. Their implementation costs (used to cost) about 2 minutes to login
<lotuspsychje> lol
<hggdh> I know this is an extreme case, but add to it the fact that sessions timed out on non-use in a few minutes
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: but then alot of ppl answer security questions a right way
<hggdh> so, for me to work around a change in 20 different servers would take about one hour of logging (and re-logging in)
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: so when the abuser knows the email, and the person he knows their pet name and gets in
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: oh, ALL my seurity answers are false. Er, fantasy.
<hggdh> I have been born in more countries than I can remember
<lotuspsychje> a linux mind :p
<lotuspsychje> haha
<hggdh> but I agree thi sis not the common approach
<hggdh> (I mean, not telling the truth)
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: older customers and remembering a whole list of passwords isnt a good idea
<lotuspsychje> they already flip on few passes
<lotuspsychje> so their admin needs to inform them their forgotten password lol
<hggdh> this is why a password manager is important. Preferably one that does not save on the cloud
 * lotuspsychje doesnt like the cloud
<lotuspsychje> i know its a big deal...but the idea of something stored somewhere else then deep in my yard...brrr
<hggdh> cloud is OK, as long as YOU are the only one that knows the encryption key. And the key is not trivial. And you do not have the NSA looking at you
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> arent we all looked at?
<lotuspsychje> prism, skype cough :p
<hggdh> IDK. Sort of, probably. Adding US and GB, a lot of us are scanned
<lotuspsychje> i like the idea of fantasy, if they catch, they catch fantasy
<lotuspsychje> a john doe public wifi wardriver :p
<hggdh> there is that. And the fact that keys in wifi are not that big of a problem
<lotuspsychje> but thats the problem, everyone has a social media, nothing is fantasy anymore these days
<lotuspsychje> type one name, and you get 10 pages of him/her
<hggdh> heh. I DO have facebook, but just for immediate family. I think I posted one thing up to date
<lotuspsychje> yeah alot of traces everywhere for everyone
<hggdh> yeah
<lotuspsychje> under the hood we are all random prey
<lotuspsychje> thats how i see it
<hggdh> unfortunately, I do not disagree
<lotuspsychje> and its not gonna be better with those smartcities upon us
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: i reccomend this one: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/02/stupid-cities/553052/
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: this is a amazingly turn-me-down view, but I cannot really fault it
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<lotuspsychje> chine is building 1000 of smart cities as we speak
<lotuspsychje> or stupid :p
<hggdh> heh
<hggdh> anyway, time to hit the bed, still have an install to complete tomorrow
<hggdh> cheers
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: laterz
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Hey ducasse , How are you doing?
<ducasse> i'm good, thanks - and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<lotuspsychje> !info spotweb
<ubot5> spotweb (source: spotweb): web interface to search and filter Usenet spots. In component universe, is optional. Version 20130826+dfsg3-4 (bionic), package size 634 kB, installed size 3282 kB
<EriC^> hey all
<tomreyn> hey EriC^. watch JimBuntu granting qwebirc3425793428759283475983 permission to boot their other computer off their usb key.
<tomreyn> :)
<EriC^> hey tomreyn
<EriC^> :D
<EriC^> JimBuntu: did you ever end up trying fortnite?
<pauljw> hi everyone
<JimBuntu> EriC^, only watching them play it... now all I hear is fortnite found guilty, fortnite found guilty
<EriC^> heh :D
<EriC^> hey pauljw :)
<pauljw> hi EriC^, how's it going today?  :)
<EriC^> good thanks, you? :)
<pauljw> all good here, EriC^
<lotuspsychje> hey guys
 * pragmaticenigma waves
<tomreyn> \o
<lotuspsychje> hey pragmaticenigma and tomreyn
<lotuspsychje> how are you guys today
<pragmaticenigma> doing alright, just about to grab lunch lotuspsychje ... how about you?
<lotuspsychje> just got home from work, chill now and vacation!
<leftyfb> god damnit, blackflow is annoying as hell
<leftyfb> and not great at troubleshooting
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: i talked to him, its an ok fella
<lotuspsychje> idled in discuss for a while too
<leftyfb> PIA and again, not that great at troubleshooting. Loves to either jump around to random things or to hone in on one single aspect and ignores everything else
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: the art of support is letting go of the ego, and work togheter as a team
<lotuspsychje> even on hard(er) times
<lotuspsychje> blame or attack each other doesnt gain nothing
<lotuspsychje> hmm we have a bunch of those malesian trolls again, like this morning
<tomreyn> leftyfb: spanish is not too commonly spoken in indonesia ;-P
<leftyfb> I only copied sorry. Got a lot going on all at the same time over here
<tomreyn> just nagging, sorry
<nacc> leftyfb: tbh, i agree with you
<leftyfb> it doesn't help that cihhan is all over the place and loves to just make changes on their own
<nacc> right
<nacc> too much power :)
<pragmaticenigma> Have such a hard time understanding why someone finds it funny to cuss in a chat room
<oerheks> master of the keyboard, payed by dad & mum
<nacc> maybe they are 7
<nacc> curse words are generally funny to 7 year olds
<nacc> also defying authority
<pragmaticenigma> I've seen 30 something think their being devious for cussing... I see it as lowering my belief they're educated beyond a first grade level
<nacc> heh
<oerheks> some drop that attitude and hang around to find civil talk.
<leftyfb> I know of someone in their 40's who still trolls to this day. Just got booted from a linux channel on another network after giving them "Another chance" for the 50th time.
<leftyfb> age has little to do with it
<JimBuntu> I have known people in their 40s and beyond that trolled. I never did understand HOW they got joy from it
<pragmaticenigma> It's like when you were a kid and got away with sneaking cookies when you though Mom/Dad wasn't looking. The rush of doing something naughty that you know if someone knew who you were, would call you out on it
<pragmaticenigma> The digital realm doesn't carry the same peer pressure as being physcially together in a room. If you start cussing in a large room full of people, everyone will look at you and know who the potty mouth is... No one knows who you are on the Internet
<nacc> what i want to say in #ubuntu
<nacc> niekniek: "it feels like that's such a basic question, that perhaps setting a bridged network is not really in your best interest"
<daftykins> ooh bridges eh :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-06-30
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: very active yesterday, today also?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: steady .. no action however on my part to speak of .
<neoncontrails> I'm a recent convert to Ubuntu from macOS. I'm curious if there's a plugin or module that supports Spotlight-like indexing of the filesystem for fast retrieval?
<daftykins> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/02/cerebro-is-a-spotlight-linux-equivalent
<neoncontrails> daftykins: brilliant! This looks like exactly what I'm searching for
<daftykins> google wins again
<Bashing-om> Anddd .. that's a wrap for this un - \o
<ducasse> good morning
 * guiverc_d notes tomreyn deserves a truck full of cookies
<ducasse> ...for not strangling that guy :)
<tomreyn> :)
<tomreyn> some day, i'll just burst forward with a huuuuge rooooar
<tomreyn> not today, though, unless there are non virtual cookies
<guiverc_d> :)
<ducasse> !karma -200 jak2020
<ubot5> ducasse: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<tomreyn> no karma here. also, karma requires intelligence, based on this output.
<ducasse> was worth a shot ;)
<tomreyn> say, do you think it's worth filing a bug report saying that esp partitions, if stored on applicable storage types, should be listed with 'discard' option in fstab?
<tomreyn> s/partitions/file systems/
<ducasse> probably, imo
<tomreyn> just which package to file this against. it's probably something installer-ish
<ducasse> try (s)ubiquity? the devs will correct it to the right package.
<tomreyn> good point, thanks
<EriC^^> sometimes i feel like a salesman in ubuntu
<EriC^^> :D
<tomreyn> hehehe
<tomreyn> ducasse: does this look right? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1779443
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1779443 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "esp partitions should be mounted with "discard" option where applicable" [Undecided,New]
<ducasse> looks good to me
<tomreyn> thanks for checking
<ducasse> np
<EriC^^> !info bikeshed
<ubot5> bikeshed (source: bikeshed): random useful tools that do not yet have a permanent home. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.73-0ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 15 kB, installed size 57 kB
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<leftyfb> tomreyn: While I agree with you, I do think "hackers" is the appropriate term for most people in there. Considering we are hack on ubuntu prettymuch daily :)
<tomreyn> indeed.
<oerheks> I like hackers, and coffee, and xangua
<xangua> Lol
<oerheks> hmm gksu factoid should be editted
<oerheks> !gksu
<ubot5> If you need to run graphical applications as root, use Â« gksudo Â», as it will set up the environment more appropriately. Never just use "sudo"! (See http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/graphicalsudo to know why)
<Nokaji> Hi - Does Ubuntu (v16.04) provide me with a free email account?
<hggdh> Nokaji: no, it does not
<Nokaji> okie, thanks hggdh - guess I'll have to part with some hard-earnt
<hggdh> Nokaji: there are many free email providers out there...
<Nokaji> Indeed, hggdh - I'm checking my options but paid gets me attachments included and the privacy and security of owning my own content
<Nokaji> maybe even a cPanel thingy (not that I rememebr what one of those is)
<hggdh> Nokaji: wait, you want host your own email server?
<Nokaji> nope ... okie mebbe I don't need cPanel then
<Nokaji> I just want MOARE functionality
<Nokaji> bbl ... grubs up
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> just enabled starting up applications full list on ubuntu desktop with sudo sed -i 's/NoDisplay=true/NoDisplay=false/g' /etc/xdg/autostart/*.desktop
<lotuspsychje> amazing what a gnome list starting up
<lotuspsychje> https://imgur.com/a/PfuWxME
<EriC^^> evening everyone
<oerheks> hi Eric
<EriC^^> hi oerheks
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: \o
<EriC^^> hey Bashing-om o/
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Slow day here for a Saturday .. Meant to get things done (ourside) but, do not have enough motivation :P
<EriC^^> i see :D
<hggdh> all my motivation to go outside melted. It is 96F, feels=like 107
<Bashing-om> hggdh: Same - I poke my head out the door .. and promptly reinsert back inside :P
<oerheks> some say a bhurka protects against the heat, but i hate it on my bicycle
<tomreyn> could try a talr instead
<tomreyn> *talar
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-01
<oerheks> nor you have mint, tomreyn
<oerheks> *hips*
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: morn
<lotuspsychje> heyy hggdh guiverc
<guiverc> howdy lotuspsychje
<ducasse> good morning
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<pauljw> hi everyone
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> heatwave here, 90F/90% humidity
<pauljw> same here, BluesKaj, thank goodness for a/c.
<BluesKaj> yup, already turned it on, it's already 28C/83F /80% humidity
<BluesKaj> outside
<BluesKaj> we a near tornado yesterday over our little town, that was a scary experience...the clouds were dark green then the wind came up and rain was horizontal
<pauljw> oooh, yeah, don't like tornadoes.
<BluesKaj> heh, no kidding
<BluesKaj> very rare around here
<tomreyn> oerheks: have firefox upgrades been made available faster in the past?
<tomreyn> (when they contained critical security patches, but i thinkt hat's almost the case, more or less)
<oerheks> tomreyn,  i thought FF is on a 6 week cycle?
<oerheks> something like that
<tomreyn> oerheks: yu mean upstream releases are?
<oerheks> yes? i see it in debian already
<tomreyn> what i was asking about is time to patch, or how fast the upstream releases have hit ubuntu in the past.
<oerheks> i don't remember exactly, normally firefox would appear 3-5 days afer release, chromium much later
<tomreyn> i guess we could check mozilla security advisories vs USNs
<tomreyn> ...comparing dates
<tomreyn> Firefox https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/known-vulnerabilities/firefox/
<oerheks> stable in debian https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=firefox
<tomreyn> paste firefox USNs https://www.google.com/search?q=host%3Ausn.ubuntu.com+firefox
<tomreyn> *past
<tomreyn> oerheks: not stable in debian, no. they use ESR
<tomreyn> actualyl this link https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ausn.ubuntu.com+firefox
<oerheks> oh indeed, sid gives 61 https://launchpad.net/debian/sid/+source/firefox
<tomreyn> btw you got a private message if you dont ignore them
<oerheks> so, maybe today or tomorrow, holding on on the 4-5 day cycle? but that cycle is just an observation
<oerheks> yes i read it.
<tomreyn> i dont know the usual time to patch, it's what i'm trying to determine now
<tomreyn> oerheks: feel free to add to it in case you got some time: https://lite.framacalc.org/QdSF3zNebB
<tomreyn> just pick some version from https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/known-vulnerabilities/firefox/ and look up the usn
<oerheks> 6 week cycle indeed https://wiki.mozilla.org/Release_Management/Calendar
<oerheks> maybe i should just contact the mozilla team
<tomreyn> about what? asking them to patch firefox in ubuntu?
<oerheks> not patching, just the whole new version?
<tomreyn> right, that's what i meant. but why would mozilla provide ubuntu packages? for all we know they have some kind of contract with ubuntu to define who does what (not) and to protect each others brands.
<tomreyn> s/ubuntu/canonical/
<oerheks> oh, i thought we waited for the debian branch to build first?
<tomreyn> i tzhionk packaging firefox in ubuntu is independant from debian
<tomreyn> *think
<tomreyn> since canonical decided to do rolling releases for firefox in ubuntu some years ago.
<tomreyn> before this, there was a team involving people form both debian and ubuntu working on backporting patches.
<tomreyn> actually that was the very old times, then both debian dn ubuntu switched to esr, then ubuntu switched to rolling releases
<tomreyn> dn -> and
<tomreyn> that's from my memory, may be incorrect
<oerheks> hasn't that changed when firefox changed to 6 week cycle too?
<oerheks> this happened a few years ago, iirc
<tomreyn> what do you mean changed then?
<EriC^^> evening all
<tomreyn> mozilla was never happy with distros shipping old firefox releases with backports, which is why they prohibited using the firefox brand on those backports, which is why there was iceweasel.
<tomreyn> hi eric
<EriC^^> hi tomreyn
<oerheks> oh so far does my knowledge not go ..
<oerheks> hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi oerheks
<oerheks> at a certain point, i read about firefox releasing a fresh version any 6 weeks, and seems correct looking at their timetable
<oerheks> EriC^^, i am wondering why FF 61 is not in the repos yet
<EriC^^> aha
<oerheks> and what the 'normal' timeline is, between release and build
<tomreyn> yes, i agree that they seem to have a 6 week release schedule. but this doesn't tell us how long it takes for upstream releases to arrive in ubuntu
<oerheks> i migh be wrong looking a debian, expecting that package to show up
<oerheks> jups
<tomreyn> debian stable wont have 61.0.0
<tomreyn> unless 61.0.0 will be selected as an ESR by mozilla
<tomreyn> ESR = "extended support release"
<oerheks> nope, 60 will jump to 68
<tomreyn> so debian stable wont have 61
<tomreyn> debian testing aklso uses ESR exclusively, i think
<tomreyn> so either ubuntu syncs firefox from debian unstable (but i dont think they do) or they build it themselves.
<tomreyn> chances are that canonical is bound to some contractual terms to be able to deliver "firefox" branded packages. such as not removing / modifying some things (default search engine? start page still getting the google cookie?)
<tomreyn> i'm just making this up, have no idea what is there and what isn't, but it would seem logical for how businesses would set terms.
<oerheks> tomreyn, > chrisccoulson> it will be published when it's in a releasable state and we can build language packs that work
<oerheks> so it is a 2-trap rocket
<tomreyn> thanks for sharing
<tomreyn> while going over the USNs i notice that there have been many regressions and upstream follow up releases.
<tomreyn> probably not the greatest packages to work on.
<tomreyn> btw. my table is growing steadily
<oerheks> I have no idea how hard that would be, i would like to contribute, but understanding how this packaging works is also valuable to pass on
<tomreyn> looking at the launchpad bazaar(s) will probably provide more info on how packaging is done.
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-06-22
<oerheks> bug #1463112
 * lotuspsychje ubottu: error...im not here
<ducasse> good morning
<Bashing-om> UWN636 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue636 :D
<brknwing> Who can I talk to in order to have added to the control panel an easy way to designate which monitor is 1 and which is 2 in a multi-monitor setup?
<sarnold> which control panel?
<daftykins> the displays one, akin to 'identify' on Windows
<sarnold> sorry, I meant, gnome or kde or xfce or .. :)
<daftykins> ah no you just mean to select primary
<Bashing-om> brknwing: Which desktop are you on ? Terminal commd ' echo $DESKTOP_SESSION " " $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP ' to tell .
<brknwing> regular ubuntu 20.04.. gnome I guess?  As the user I need to be able to tell the OS what display is 1 and what is 2 for me.  I have low vision and the larger display should be primary, not my tiny laptop one.  I know there's kludges and scripts but it's not 1970s no more....
<daftykins> would certainly be surprised if that's not a thing
<sarnold> but you know gnome folks, they are happiest when they remove a feature..
<daftykins> :D
<sarnold> if the control panel doesn't have a way to do it now, filing a bug with both ubuntu and upstream gnome is probably the way to go
<Bashing-om> brknwing: I run xfce as my GUI environment and in xfce there is "display" in the settings utility to identify the monitors. I would expect something similar in GDM.
<brknwing> so I fill out a bug form somewhere.  ok I'll google it.
<brknwing> thank you.
<oerheks> oops, i pasted too much in #u
 * ducasse kicks oerheks
<daftykins> pls no flooding, there are no pumps in the channels
<ducasse> "everybody to the pumps, the water has now reached your rumps"
<oerheks> help, i can swim
<jeremy31> out gas
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-06-23
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<kgb> mornin'!
<marcoagpinto> Heya guys, the demon is here!
<marcoagpinto> :)
 * daftykins runs
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-06-24
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-06-25
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lotuspsychje> im trying to get pics preview like in this url (the cat) and installed ranger from the repos, like the user is using, but the only thing it previews on my end are txt files so it seems, https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/hdde5v/dwm_rin_rice/
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: not all terminals can support displaying images
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: if you install w3m-img and then run w3m https://www.google.com/ do you get images in your current terminal?
<lotuspsychje> sarnold: seems like when installing ranger, it also pulls w3m as dependendy, you think it would work there?
<lotuspsychje> *dependency
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: it's just a matter of guessing that ranger is probably using the same X extension for graphics display
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: I could of course guess wrong :)
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: so I hoped to find another program that should work fine..
<lotuspsychje> when i right click on a jpg inside ranger terminal, it does open the jpg, but not inside the terminal seperate
<lotuspsychje> or right arrow works too
<sarnold> ohhhhh
<lotuspsychje> sarnold: https://imgur.com/a/oUJBUzp thats as far as it wants to go
<lotuspsychje> but with a .txt or .iso it does preview here
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Godo morning
<leftyfb> sarnold: why do we bother?
<sarnold> leftyfb: heh, good question :)
<sarnold> gotta remember the folks who really run with it though, and take the chance to learn..
<daftykins> sarnold: all 0.5% of them? :D
<sarnold> daftykins: yeah, them! :D
<daftykins> \o/
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-06-26
<Eickmeyer> oerheks: We are NOT the experts on the lowlatency kernel in #ubuntustudio. That goes to the kernel team.
<Eickmeyer> Audio isn't the only thing that benefits from lowlatency.
<oerheks> i know, i could not find the info directly.
<oerheks> but sven was helpfull to confirm
<oerheks> oh, he reasked, ..
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<katnip> good evenin :)
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<marcoagpinto> Heya
<marcoagpinto> When is 20.04.1 comming?
<jonux> August 6th accorfing to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FocalFossa/ReleaseSchedule
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh
<marcoagpinto> thanks
<marcoagpinto> :)
<lotus|NUC> https://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-under-fire-for-putting-ads-in-the-ubuntu-motd-530372.shtml
<lotus|NUC> lol katnip
<lotus|NUC> syncro thoughts
<lotuspsychje> good morning
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-06-27
<BenderRodriguez> good evening lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey there BenderRodriguez
<sarnold> B E N D E R BEEEENDER
<lotuspsychje> lol
<BenderRodriguez> sarnold: hi
<sarnold> hey BenderRodriguez :)
<ducasse> good morning
<lotus|NUC> ComputerChic: me
<lotus|NUC> bye
<tomreyn> wb ComputerChic
<ComputerChic> @tomreynHi there
<ComputerChic> @tomreyn How are you this morning?
<tomreyn> good, good, thanks!
<tomreyn> did you want to discuss nucs in here?
<ComputerChic> I just got one a few wks. I'm loving it so far.
<ComputerChic> I've got it dual-booted.
<tomreyn> ubuntu 18.04 and ubuntu 20.04?
<ComputerChic> Is it cool to discuss nuc's or no. I've not in irc's in roughly 10+ yrs.
<ComputerChic> I am relearning irc's. I've got 20.04.
<tomreyn> if it's something you want to discuss regarding ubuntu then this channel can be fine.
<ComputerChic> Okay cool.
<tomreyn> i don't have this hardware but lotus does
<ComputerChic> I am runing Ubuntu 20.04 on my nuc. Oh my bad.
<lotus|NUC> ComputerChic: wich model did you get?
<ComputerChic> I've got the nuc8i5beh
<lotus|NUC> cool
<lotus|NUC> ComputerChic: did you check if there are firmware updates for it?
<ComputerChic> No, I am still learning and reading about it.
<lotus|NUC> ComputerChic: highly reccomended you firmware upgrade it, when available
<tomreyn> journalctl -b | grep DMI:      tells you which one you have currently
<tomreyn> BECFL357.86A 0081 5/4/2020 is the latest according to  https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/126148/Intel-NUC-Kit-NUC8i5BEH
<lotus|NUC> heh im one behind myself
<tomreyn> 0078?
<lotus|NUC> jun 27 01:38:15 NUC kernel: DMI: Intel Corporation NUC7i7BNH/NUC7i7BNB, BIOS BNKBL357.86A.0081.2020.0114.1542 01/14/2020
<tomreyn> that looks like the latest
<tomreyn> weird date though
<lotus|NUC> there's a 082 for me tomreyn
<lotus|NUC> microcode updates uh oh :p
<tomreyn> oh you have a different model
<lotus|NUC> yeah
<lotus|NUC> jun 27 13:31:36 NUC kernel: DMI: Intel Corporation NUC7i7BNH/NUC7i7BNB, BIOS BNKBL357.86A.0082.2020.0505.1614 05/05/2020
<lotus|NUC> there we go tomreyn
<tomreyn> :)
<marcoagpinto> heya
<joelcrump> hi marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> the demon!
<marcoagpinto> is anyone there?!
<marcoagpinto> it is the little demon, Marco!
<ducasse> some of us are, at least
<joelcrump> i said hi to him, apparently he wanted me to scream in terror or something
<oerheks> hide the cola!
<oerheks> oh wait..
<ducasse> as long as you don't hide mine, oerheks - get thirsty in this heat and from vaping
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-06-28
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<marcoagpinto> hey hey
 * lotuspsychje runs
<marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje!
<marcoagpinto> it is the cola demon here
