#edubuntu 2005-12-19
* lucasvo can't wait til this stupid apt is done with upgrading
<ogra> heh
<lucasvo> ogra: distrowatch must be a big + for pressed cds in dapper?
<ogra> not really ...
<lucasvo> ogra: why?
<ogra> are we still in top 100 ? 
<ogra> i didnt look for some weeks
<ogra> hmm, actually 67 in the 3 months overview
<ogra> but not even listed for the 1 month statistics
<loogaroo> is this a bug: if you install sabayon in breezy (without creating a default profile), /etc/X11/Xsession does't work longer
<ogra> works here 
<ogra> did you edit that file before installing sabayon ? 
<loogaroo> could be
<ogra> that might be it ...
<loogaroo> did you create a profile for your user?
<ogra> note also that sabayon doesnt work on thin clients
<ogra> nope, i tested sabayon for inclusion and found out it doesnt work, so i didnt include it :)
<ogra> it must work on thin clients to include it by default, else its useless ...
<ogra> but its principle collides with our ltsp 
<loogaroo> ok
<ogra> it runs xnest which doesnt work through ssh tunnels ...
<ogra> i see no way to make that work ... :( 
<ogra> (i'd very much love to include it in the next release)
<loogaroo> hmm
<loogaroo> we, have some time left, for dapper
<ogra> not much though
<ogra> upstream version freeze is deadline for new stuff
<ogra> and my personal ocus is on keeping the edubuntu metapackages working and to improve ltsp ... so i dont have much time left for other development
<ogra> *focus
<loogaroo> are you again searching for new helpers?
<ogra> i'm always searching for helpers :)
<loogaroo> :)
<loogaroo> we, talked yesterday on #ltsp if you can't remember, btw
<ogra> ah, yes
<loogaroo> ogra, do you use vmware for edubuntu development?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> real hardware
<ogra> Yagisan does a lot with vmware
<loogaroo> vmware 5 has pxe support
<ogra> he also tests the isos with it (at least he did that last release)
<ogra> ahm, nice
<ogra> -m
<loogaroo> have ubuntu something like a mentors-project, too?
<ogra> we have MOTU
<ogra> (masters of the universe)
<ogra> its similar to mentors
<ogra> but more team oriented
<ogra> since we dont have personalized packages in ubuntu, everyone can work on everything he likes
<ogra> technically everyone can submit packages to http://tiber.tauware.de/, where they get reviewed by MOTU and get sponsored uploads
<gand> How to install phpbb EasyMod on ubuntu: http://area51.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?sid=&f=19&t=21527
<ogra> gand, ah, you found the solution to your user problem then ? 
<ogra> nice :)
<gand> yrs :)
<gand> yes:)
<gand> and then share what I learn :)
<ogra> cool
<ogra> :
<ogra> :)
<loogaroo> ogra, thx, I will have a look on it
<ogra> loogaroo, feel invited to #ubuntu-motu as well :)
<gand> I've set a phpbb board for a teacher group sharing FOSS on Italian school
<ogra> thats very nice :)
<gand> lombardia.homelinux.org/forum is running on edubuntu machine :) ones you help to set up
<ogra> wow
<Burgwork> ogra, you awake still?
<ogra> Burgwork, partially
<Burgwork> ogra, my company is interested in making TeachersPet work on multiseat boxes
<ogra> nice
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/
<ogra> there is my bzr archive 
<ogra> its far from being complete or anything
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/student-control-panel_shot.png
<Burgwork> ok
<ogra> you can easily replace the top graphics with a company logo
<Burgwork> where is that tool going to be as of Dapper?
<Burgwork> and is there anything in the design that needs to be rethought to handle multiseat instead of ltsp?
<ogra> i hope the three basic finctions, logout, start apps for selected students and mke vnc connection to the currenly selected student work ...
<Burgwork> I didn't see anything
<ogra> the grabbing of the login connections must be handled differently
<Burgwork> yep
<ogra> one guy already made a gentoo port :)
<Burgwork> but the fundamental design is not different
<ogra> nope
<Burgwork> ok. we are just in the preliminary stages of looking at what we can do, so no promises yet
<ogra> if you look at the code of http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/student-control-panel all thats needed is an adjustment of the poll_userlist function
<ogra> its trivial to change that for other implementations
<ogra> and its not my highest priorty, so any help will be welcome
<Burgwork> I might even have enough python vodoo to make that work
<ogra> so just bzr get it ;)
<Burgwork> my time is about to get very very tight, due to other non-work Ubuntu stuff, but I will try
<ogra> if you run into probs, just ping me 
<Burgwork> ok
<Burgwork> ogra, just a gui comment. It might be better to move the logout student button to beside the takeover student one
<Burgwork> and at the bottom, have a logout all and takeover all button
<ogra> thats not how it works ;)
<Burgwork> oh
<ogra> the logout button logs out *all selected* students
<Burgwork> hmm
<ogra> be it only one or all
<ogra> so it applies to the list on the left ...
<Burgwork> how often is the teach going to logging out only a subset of students?
<ogra> the same will happen with the execute button
<Burgwork> s/teach/teacher
<ogra> you can just ctrl-a them ...
<Burgwork> yes
<ogra> but the logic is that the takeover button only applies to the currently shown student, and the other buttons allpy to the list on the left
<Burgwork> I don't know enough about how teachers would actually use the tool to make a good judgement
<Burgwork> the reason I say move the buttons over is that then it is clear exactly what student you are affecting
<ogra> so the optical distinction is content vs list
<ogra> or list vs content to put it in the appropriate order
<ogra> try the app and you will see what i mean ...
<Burgwork> yes, I think I understand your thinking
<Burgwork> I wish I knew how teachers actually would use it
<ogra> yes, me too :)
<ogra> i think if you have two students that misbehave and play an online game against each other, its nice to select just these two and kick them out ;)
<Burgwork> yes
<ogra> that was my initial idea ... 
<Burgwork> but at the same time, I am worried about the multiple selection thing
<Burgwork> because the side only shows one
<ogra> the last selscted one ...
<Burgwork> ugh
<Burgwork> let me mock up my idea and  post to edubuntu-devel
<ogra> i wont add any more buttons, but i want the teacher to be able to kick students selective
<Burgwork> get some more opinions
<ogra> i wont have the time to work on the gui ... i'm happy if i get the backend done before UVF (which is less than 4 weeks)
<Burgwork> ouch
<Burgwork> again, I might be able to muster my meager pygtk skills to do that
<ogra> surely you can do that, but it wont happen if no gui guru steps up and integrates all the autouipdating of the gui right 
<Burgwork> yep
<ogra> and i will in no case add a "populate userlist" button or something differently weird ;)
<ogra> just to circumvent a usability issue i can solve as well n the next release :)
<Burgwork> that is crack
<ogra> that is what all teacher tools do today
<Burgwork> I have never seen one
<Burgwork> I should start looking
<ogra> i havent found one without such buttons :)
<ogra> look at controlaulas at gnomefiles.org
<ogra> its a horribly bloated but very powerful gui
<ogra> sadly its 100% written in gambas
<Burgwork> yes
<ogra> which i'll never touch and we wont have it in ubuntu main ever ... so no option...
<ogra> and then there is the ancient teacher tool .... in tkinter ....
<ogra> and a port of it in gtk1 ....
<Burgwork> controlaulas looks like a mess
<ogra> and i think i also saw a port to gtk2 ...
<Burgwork> what about teachertool, the k12ltsp one?
<ogra> thats the tkinter one ...
<ogra> with a populate button for *every* list
<ogra> s-c-p is mainly based on it ... but without most of the crack
<Burgwork> are there screenshots for that somewhere?
<ogra> i.e. i adopted the backend, made it work with our ltsp but added automation where possible ...
<ogra> http://www.grawert.net/TeacherTool.png
<Burgwork> ugh
<ogra> ever button pops up another list (with its own populate list button indeed)
<ogra> or weird dialogs
<loogaroo> how can I use a serial mouse on the thinclients?
<ogra> loogaroo, i fear that doesnt work ... i had several users that tried it, but it didnt work for them and i have no serial one to test
<ogra> in breezy its not implemented http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLtsConfParams but the patch we got for dapper didnt seem to work either :(
<ogra> i had someone here who tried to backport the patch ...
<ogra> loogaroo, you can look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/fixes/debian/ltsp-client.ltsp-client-setup.init
<loogaroo> ok
<ogra> there are lines for X_MOUSE_DEVICE and X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL
<ogra> try to put them into /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup and add the options to your lts.conf file 
<ogra> but i doubt it will work
<loogaroo> I will try this tomorrow
<loogaroo> thx, and good night
<ogra> night
<pc22> hi ogra 
<freelove> hi ogra:)
<pc22> hello
<lucasvo> hello
<manu_ubu> Hello
<juliux> hhi
<irvin> what's the agenda for the meeting later?
<bimberi> ping ogra or ogra__
<bimberi> (having some issues requiring an op in #ubuntu)
<bimberi> nvm, Seveas to the rescue :)
<JaneW> hi guys, I think I am going to have to miss the meeting...
<JaneW> I seem to have a stomach bug or something :(
<JaneW> I am going to lie down, and will hopefully manage to come back otherwise please either
<JaneW> 1) Handle the meeting in my absence or 
<JaneW> 2) We could reschedule for same time , same place tomorrow?
<ogra> JaneW, i think we can lrun it in absentia ....
<ogra> JaneW, i invited some of the edubuntu-fr guys that seem to run a completely separate project with own CD etc, i'd like to clearify and coordinate a bit with them...
<lucasvo> Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
<lucasvo> requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
<lucasvo> distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
<lucasvo> or been moved out of Incoming.
<lucasvo> The following information may help to resolve the situation:
<lucasvo> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<lucasvo>   cupsys: Depends: poppler-utils but it is not going to be installed
<lucasvo>   xpdf-reader: Depends: lesstif2 but it is not installable
<lucasvo> E: Broken packages
<lucasvo> what's wrong, I am just updating from breezy to dapper
<ogra> the c++ transition ....
<ogra> install poppleer-utils and remove xpdf-reader 
<lucasvo> hu?
<lucasvo> remove xpdf?
<ogra> the libs underneath have changed ... if you run apt-get upgrade apt would have to uninstall stuff ...
<ogra> try installing poppler-utils ...
<lucasvo> conflicts with xpdf-utils
<lucasvo> but I am removing this
<ogra> xpdf is pretty dead, we use evince everywhere 
<ogra> evince is far advanced and uses lots of the xpdf internals to render pdf
<ogra> YIPPIE !!
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/
<ogra> it exists !!
<lucasvo> ogra: I don't need it anyway:D
<lucasvo> ah it is install cd
<lucasvo> I thought live cd
<ogra> its the liveCD
<lucasvo> ah it is 
<ogra> but its broken ... 
<ogra> i was just told ...
* lucasvo will get a new server for xmas :D
<ogra> yay
<lucasvo> but not one of these:( www.opteronics.com/quad-opteron-server.htm 
<ogra> who needs quad cpus anyway
<lucasvo> someone who doesn't has heating in house :D
<ogra> edubuntu meeting or not ? in #ubuntu-meeting ....
<littlepaul> hi mhz 
<mhz> littlepaul: hi
* mhz in a meeting ending in 5 minutes
<littlepaul> k
<mhz> littlepaul: re
<ogra> littlepaul, are you working on german documentation ? 
<kjcole> mhz, still here, but getting ready for work as usual...
<mhz> kjcole: any chances Abiword .html or OOO.html work for your puroposes?
<flint> getting coffee...
<ogra> we are curretnly trying to coordinate a bit between the dfferen languages ... there are lots of things thatmight be done in es or fr that you could grab ... as well as the opposite for them
* ogra too ...
<irvin> i missed the meeting
<jsgotangco> it seems so
<kjcole> For *MY* purposes, anything would work.  plain text would work.  But the advantage of Lore (and other stuff) is the ability to auto-build indexes, tables of contents, etc.
* jsgotangco as well
<mhz> irvin: but you'll be able to read logs
<irvin> i'm reading it right now
<littlepaul> ogra, right; may I send you an email - I think you should take a look over the things
<mhz> kjcole: moin does that too :p
<ogra> i'll put up notes later the day
<ogra> littlepaul, sure :)
<jsgotangco> hmm
<littlepaul> mhz, setcam allready talked and emailed with you as I read
<mhz> indeed, nice person
<kjcole> Lore comes with some nice style sheets, and an ability to generate good-looking LaTeX output as well.  But I'm not the one committed to it.  jelkner likes it, and I said "Looks easy.  Fine."
<mhz> hehehehe
<mhz> okis
<mhz> any screenshots of the user interacting?
<ogra> kjcole, as i said, if we have a way to convert its all fine
<flint> btw when I said 12 degrees F this morning I misread.  it is -12 degrees F....
<ogra> cosy
<Yagisan> G'day mhz
<jsgotangco> grr
<kjcole> flint, hell freezes over on a regular basis when you're in that part of the world.  (Been there, done that, for 20 years.  It drove me south.)
<mhz> kjcole: jsgotangco: any good KISS app. that lets real newbies to docbook/xml start generating such code?
<Yagisan> The riots moved closer to my flat last night
<mhz> Yagisan: hey!!! good news?
<kjcole> jsgotangco must be in vermont... ("this thing is freezing at the moment")
<mhz> Yagisan: oooops! I can't understand why those riots?
<Yagisan> some wankers were shooting at the christion primary school, and burned down a church
<ogra> why did he grr ? 
<littlepaul> ogra could you explain what is exactly broken on the livecd?
<ogra> littlepaul, nothing i hope
<mhz> :)
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/20051214.1/ should be fine for testing now
<littlepaul> ok
<Yagisan> mhz: In a nutshell, islamic extremists have provoked *every* other ethic group to take revenge on them
<kjcole> mhz, dunno.  My sense of the little docbook I saw was that it was easy to get started, difficult to get sophisticated, and that the Ubuntu folks had their own set of prerequisites in addition to the basics.
<mhz> ogra: remember last time I tried rsyncing in order to avoid re-downloading all again? (it did not wrok at all :( ) Any tips this time?
<littlepaul> Yagisan, the only white guy in his "bario" *G*
<kjcole> mhz, I found a reasonably good introduction somewhere on the web, and kept the URL somewhere.  Will try to pass that on.
<ogra> mhz, hmm, works here ... but for an initial download you wont gain anything anyway
<Yagisan> littlepaul: Yes, I *am* the only white guy here.
<mhz> sure, ogra
<mhz> Yagisan: sorry to hear that. I always thought AU was not into racist stupid sheeps
<Yagisan> littlepaul: the church that was burnt down was for the pacific islanders, the school was asian
<kjcole> mhz, the lore documentation, was short and simple.
* mhz wonders what would white extremist feel when they realize they are minority
<Yagisan> mhz: It's actually rampaging islamic groups
<kjcole> yagisan, my wife's from Australia, and has family in Sydney and the Blue Mountains.  She hasn't been home in a long time but was a bit amazed by the news coming out of there.
<Yagisan> I'm in sdyney
<Yagisan> the curch that was burnt down, you could see it burning from my flat
<littlepaul> Yagisan, :/
<Yagisan> s/curch/church
<kjcole> Her dad's in... Darlington?  (I forget.  near the university. 10 minute walk, I think.)
<mhz> kjcole: I guess you are right but remember I am just a moin admin and far from being coder, so my only near 'commands' experience is the command line interface, not tags. So if you happen to have 2 or 3 screenshots of how a user interacts with Lore.. would be excellent.
<Yagisan> kjcole: Probably darlinghurst. Anyway, the mob is from lakemba,punchbowl and bankstown
<kjcole> mhz,  Easy.  Will do.
<Yagisan> kjcole: your wife may remember what gettos those places are
<mhz> kjcole: thank you very much
<Yagisan> I feel odd, that I have to arm myself, just to go to the shop
<littlepaul> very bad :(
<kjcole> Yagisan, She wouldn't.  She didn't grow up in Sydney.  She knows Hobart.  (When we met she teased "I'm not Australian.  I'm Tasmanian." To which I responded "Tasmaniac is more like it.")
<Yagisan> yesterday an 11 month old child was attacked because it was white !
<Yagisan> I'm glad my kids aren't white
<kjcole> Yagisan, but her dad moved to Sydney, her sis moved to the US and then back to the Blue Mountains.
<kjcole> Yagisan, but she says there've always been "issues" with some of the aboriginal community.  Now something new.
<mhz> Yagisan: i am truly sorry
<jsgotangco> that's so sad
<kjcole> Yagisan, rough.  Much sympathy.
<Yagisan> the thing that is really annoying, is all the white people get called racists for defending themselves
<Yagisan> yet, we can clearly see on tv
<Yagisan> we have white, black, and yellow people
<Yagisan> all getting revenge
<Yagisan> and yet, only one colour is racist ???
<Yagisan> WTF ?
<littlepaul> ...
* mhz wouldn't know what to do to even start finding solutions
<kjcole> Yagisan, and when their children are old enough, they'll join the fray and continue the cycle, as they will have had family injured or killed.
<kjcole> Although not necessarily ideal, the best attempt I'v seen at dealing with stuff like this was South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
<Yagisan> I know. And it all stared because some idiots decided that because most of us are non-islamic, they can do what they like to us
<kjcole> I'm an "out" atheist myself.  And I worry about where the US is going with regard to religious zealotry from any religion.
<Yagisan> then some more idiots decided, that beating the shit out of the first group was the best solution
<ogra> jsgotangco, was that grr before you left for us ?
<jsgotangco> my client froze and was only stuck in one channel
<jsgotangco> =)
<ogra> ah, k, i was already worried :)
<Yagisan> then the first group decided to get revenge for the beating they got, and starts burning down churches, and attacking children
<jsgotangco> =)
* jsgotangco is editing AsianBusinessTour pages
<kjcole> jsgotangco: I thought you were perhaps visiting vermont, with -12 F temperatures.  (You said your system was "freezing")
<Yagisan> I'm also an atheist, by better half is a buddhist/shinto
<Yagisan> s/by/my
<jsgotangco> -12 F jesus christ
<mhz> jsgotangco: just to cheer up, finlsand is colder
* jsgotangco enjoys the lush equatorial weather
<kjcole> jsgotangco: Fortunately I'm further south.  (The -12 was a Flint report, as he's new to that area.)  Still the temperatures here in DC are expected to be +24 F to +32 F.  So, below or at freezing all day today.
* Yagisan "enjoys" the smell of something burning
* Yagisan wishes he had already moved to Tokyo
<mhz> ogra: jsgotangco: any chances/ideas we can avoid creation of these kind of wiki pages: aLEXsANCHEZsECO?
<ogra> mhz, we cant ...
<ogra> its a wiki
<mhz> that should read: AlexSanchezSeco
<jsgotangco> nope
<kjcole> Well, running late.  Time to go pretend to work.
<mhz> kjcole: :)
<jsgotangco> unless you like to be a wiki nazi *grin*
<Yagisan> I think we already have wiki nazis, don't we ?
<ogra> cao kjcole 
<ogra> *ciao even
<kjcole> Ta-ta all.
<Yagisan> kjcole, see ya
<mhz> jsgotangco: not at all but this is not a wiki for you to play with, it's a wiki to share 'info' related to ubuntu
<Yagisan> mhz: there isn't a difference.
<mhz> ?
<jsgotangco> mhz, i think its just a matter of setting ground rules and letting people know. why not spearhead an ubuntu-wiki school just like what the motu does
<jsgotangco> i'm pretty sure people will like to attend that
<Yagisan> it's a wiki, it can be abused because of that very fact
<mhz> Yagisan: if so, why stopping wiki spammers?
<mhz> wikis have that freedom nature to share data
<jsgotangco> mhz, we know its a social issue not a technical one
<mhz> but that does not mean anyone can wiki whatever they want (porno, mp3, advertising, etc)
<jsgotangco> a technical solution can easily be circumvented i'm sure you're very aware of that
<mhz> yup
<Yagisan> yep, we need people to keep the wiki clean
<mhz> jsgotangco: so do you know of any draft of wiki ground 'rules'?
<Yagisan> and to fix things like cAPS lOCK impaired people
<jsgotangco> i believe mdke made some...
<Yagisan> :)
<jsgotangco> but our favorite barrister seems to be busy lately...
<spacey> ogra, still interested in willow?
<mhz> hmm, okis. I hope I can help as soon as I can read that draft
<spacey> since it depends on multiverse?
<Yagisan> all the best tools are in multiverse ;)
<mhz> :)
<spacey> Yagisan, thats not true :p
<ogra> spacey, i'm not sure it really needs the profiler
<ogra> we can probably patch it out ...
<spacey> ogra, hmhm i'm busy like crazy here. I don't think i'll be able to hack much code, especially since im not into python yet
<ogra> but currently my focus is on the CDs, flight 2 is at the door, the isos need testing
<ogra> i'll look into it... i'll package it anyway 
<Yagisan> spacey: yeah, some of the best ones don't even get packaged :( eg libdvdcss
* Yagisan notes most of his multimedia packages had to come from multiverse
<ogra> Yagisan, you just use the wrong media then :P
<Yagisan> ogra: bah, I like my MPEG4
<spacey> Yagisan, i got that package installed:P
<spacey> seveas has it in his repository
* Yagisan backported xvidcore from dapper for the amd64 speedups
<Yagisan> spacey: I run my own third party repo too, no surprises for guessing what is in it
<Yagisan> s/surprises/prizes
<spacey> ;p
* mhz /me bbl
<flint> I am taking the term wikinazis and imortalizing it.  you guys are good. very good....
<jsgotangco> i'm just following the footsteps of the original word playing nazi at the moment
<Yagisan> flint: immortalising :-P
* Yagisan goes looking for matching uniform, to go with my bad taste - perhaps something prince harry style, before I'm lynched.
<Yagisan> "Here lies Yagisan, lynched for making bad taste jokes on IRC at 1 in the morning, RIP"
<flint> Yagisan, you are a god to me, admitedly a Tutonic Norse god, but a god none-the-less!  Thanks for this great contribution to the language of sarcasism..
* Yagisan is humbled and honored to be considered a god by someone, and yet wonders why his kids think they are superior to him.
<jsgotangco> haha
<flint> Yagisan, jsgotangco I am gonna cause trouble somewhere else for a while.  Thanks and bye...
<jsgotangco> later
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/463746 < apt-get upgrade doesn't seem to work
<Yagisan> lucasvo: please don't force install on errors
<ogra> -f means --fix-missing ;)
<lucasvo> Yagisan: I just tried to update from breezy to dapper
<ogra> but dont expect KDE stuff to work ...
<Yagisan> aptitude is a better choice for fix missing
<lucasvo> ogra: it is not kde stuff, it is removing my edubuntu stuff!
<ogra> the c++ libraries underneath have been transitioned
<ogra> so the kde apps might cause probs until everything was rebuilt against the new ones
<lucasvo> dubuntu-desktop edubuntu-server eog evince evolution evolution-exchange evolution-plugins gedit gnome-app-install gnome-cups-manager gnome-utils gpaint gthumb gtkhtml3.8 hotplug hplip-base kdelibs4c2 kiosktool kmessedwords libarts1c2 libboost-python1.33.0 libcupsys2-gnutls10 libgnomecups1.0-1 libgnomecupsui1.0-1 libgnomeprint2.2-0 libgnomeprintui2.2-0 libgtkhtml3.8-15 libgtksourceview1.0-0 libkcal2a libkdeedu1 libkdepim1 libkleopatra0a libmimelib1a li
<ogra> ither take the risk of a dist-upgrade or wait aome days
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/463755
<ogra> libarts1c2 and kdelibs4c2 changed their name afaik
<ogra> kdelibs4c2 will get removed, kdelibs4c2a will get installed etc ...
<ogra> if there are packages relying on them but are not rebuilt yet they will only get removed until the new packages are there
<ogra> edubuntu-server depends on postgresql8.1 the old one depeneded on 8.0
<lucasvo> ogra: so I first need to install postgresql8.1?
<ogra> to keep the edubuntu-server metapackage, yes ...
<ogra> but you can install edubntu-server afterwards as well ...
<ogra> no matter which order you take ... just wanted to point out that this errors are not worrying
<lucasvo> ok
<lucasvo> and why is edubuntu desktop being removed as well as edubuntu?
<lucasvo> ehm I mean evolution?
<lucasvo> I quite like the website design of ubuntu-fr
<ogra> edubuntu-dsktop isnt removed ...
<ogra> as i said before, either take the risk and dist-upgrade or wait 
<lucasvo> Unpacking replacement kontact ...
<lucasvo> Errors were encountered while processing:
<lucasvo>  /var/cache/apt/archives/kdepim-kresources_4%3a3.5.0-0ubuntu2_i386.deb
<lucasvo> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<lucasvo> hi mhz 
<lucasvo> mhz: where can I find you pgp key?
<mhz> lucasvo: hi
<mhz> w8
<mhz> lucasvo: here http://www.tecnocimiento.cl/MauricioHernandez   or
<mhz> https://launchpad.net/people/mhz
<mhz> there
<mhz> lucasvo: please use the 7... key
<lucasvo> why is there Seahorse and Gnomepgp?
<mhz> ?
<lucasvo> there are two similar apps installed on ubuntu
<mhz> oh, i use none of those, so i cant answer :)
<lucasvo> I don't like the fact that ubuntu is using it's own keyserver :(
<Yagisan> lucasvo: I prefer seahorse myself
<Yagisan> lucasvo: ???
<lucasvo> Yagisan: gnomepgp has old gtk toolkit and ugly design :D
<lucasvo> Yagisan: keyserver.ubuntu.com
<Yagisan> ok
<lucasvo> they should implement a feature to import plaintext keys...
<Yagisan> goodnight all
<jsgotangco> night
<jsgotangco> i gottta sleep too
<mhz> night jsgotangco 
<mhz> Yagisan: i got this compaq presario 1800 for client-server edubuntu demo. To my surprise... it does not boot from eth :(
<lucasvo> Processing was halted because there were too many errors.
<lucasvo> dpkg --reconfigure -a gives me a whole bunch of errors... :(
<lucasvo> mhz: got your key, but when I pressed on your signature in evolution, it just crashed, you must be something like an evil :D
<mhz> lucasvo: :D
<mhz> lucasvo: weired
<mhz> very weired
<lucasvo> are they actually doing anything with evolution or are they just writting more feautures/bugs?
<mhz> that doesn't happen to me
<jensp> hi, is it possible to migrate from Ubuntu to Edubuntu without having to boot from CD?
<lucasvo> mhz: I don't know but evolution crahses all the time
<mhz> jensp: yes
<lucasvo> jensp: edubuntu is just a package in apt
<mhz> oh, then maybe it is your evolution (mine works perfectly)
<mhz> lucasvo: I386 OR PPC?
<lucasvo> i386
<lucasvo> evolution is crap, it crashes when only one mailbox file is corrupt
<mhz> hmm, breezy?
<lucasvo> mhz: yes
<lucasvo> but at the moment there isn't any evolution on my pc, it got lost during upgrade to dapper :D
<mhz> tried kmail or thunderbird?
<lucasvo> k??? waaa
<lucasvo> jensp: edubuntu is just a package in apt
<lucasvo> jensp: you can install it using synaptic or apt
<jensp> fsck I hate Mirc :(
<jensp> nice, thanks
<mhz> boo
<lucasvo> "Wer das liest ist dohv"
<lucasvo> not nice
<mhz> lucasvo: exactly!
<jsgotangco> good night
<lucasvo> good night jsgotangco 
<lucasvo> /boot/initrd.img-2.6.12-10-386 was been altered.  Cannot update.
<lucasvo> should I care?
<mhz> indeed
<lucasvo> mhz: so what should I do?
<mhz> I just dont know why you got that in 1st place
<lucasvo> maybe it is because I once tried to install initng
<mhz> isn't there somehing like apt-get fix broken something?
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/463829
<lucasvo> mhz: apt-get -f install
<lucasvo> but it doesn't work
<mhz> hmmm
* mhz reading
<lucasvo> I mean it produces this error
<lucasvo> kdelibs4c2 has been renamed to kdelibs4c2a
<lucasvo> so one should correct that
<lucasvo> anybody here who could correct that?
<lucasvo> mhz: what were you reading?
<mhz> about etherbooting :)
<mhz> and apt
<mhz> lucasvo: sorry I can be of any help ATM
<mhz> cant
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> what is the default root passwd?
<lucasvo> re
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> re?
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> lucasvo?
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: hi
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> hi
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> what is the default root passwd?
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: no passwd
<lucasvo> just sudo su 
<lucasvo> and you are root
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: sudo passwd
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: is used to set a rootpw
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> but i havent set any passwd 
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> aha... first time ?
<lucasvo> you don't need any rootpw
<lucasvo> just use sudo
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> k
<lucasvo> ogra__: now my X isn't working anymore after reboot :(
<lucasvo> ogra__: all my X packages have been held back
<lucasvo> and I don't know how to reinstall them without X
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> installed edubunto, but havent give a root pass yet how to ?
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: as I said, if you want to set a rootpassword(even if you don't need it) just type sudo passwd in a commandline
<juliux> ogra__, congratulation 
<juliux> ogra__, very cool to hear that linus will use edubuntu for his daughter
<lucasvo> too bad that my school doesn't have problem with money and that they don't have to care about free software and can buy as many Xserver and G5 as they want :(
<lucasvo> it would be almost impossible to install edubuntu there
<juliux> lucasvo, lol
<juliux> lucasvo, what kind of school it is?
<lucasvo> at least it is unix
<lucasvo> juliux: public school in zurich
<juliux> lucasvo, oh
<lucasvo> something like a collegepreps school 
<lucasvo> but if you go to this school you have unrestricted access to university and eth in CH
<juliux> cool
<lucasvo> juliux: but maybe elementary school I was in will install it
<lucasvo> hm, my dhcpserver isn't working anymore :(
<lucasvo> I don't get any IP on the ltsp client anymore
<juliux> lucasvo, the dhcp server is runing?
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> apt-get install php ??
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> dosen't that package exist?
<lucasvo> juliux: yes
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: apt-cache search php
<juliux> lucasvo, hm
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: there you have to choose severals
<lucasvo> juliux: even gives out IP adresses
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: for apache you need: libapache2-mod-php4 
<lucasvo> php5 - server-side, HTML-embedded scripting language (meta-package)
<lucasvo> is the php package
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> how to choose servers?
<lucasvo> ogra__: who was the guy with xubuntu?
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: what do you need php5 for?
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> to apache
<lucasvo> ok, so install libapache2-mod-php5
<lucasvo> and php5
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> apache2 installed
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> but dont find php5
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> sudo apt-get install libapache2-mod-php5
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> cant find that package ;)
<lucasvo> hm, ok in that case install libapache2-mod-php4 && php4
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> can't find... 
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> hmm 
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> can i update the package list or something?
<juliux> sudo apt-get update
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: do you have universe enabled?
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> dont know..
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: sudo vi /etc/apt/sources.list
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> source list ?
<juliux> libapache2-mod-php5 is in main
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: there you should uncomment the lines with universe
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> where do i find the mirrors ?
<lucasvo> juliux: ah, ok
<juliux> and php5 also
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: have you feed from internet enabled?
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> dont know ;)
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> can connect to the internet
<juliux> |H8|L-a-s-e-r, can you past /etc/apt/sources.list?
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> it's alot of text...
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: but not here
<lucasvo> use pastebin.com
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> k
<juliux> or paste.ubuntuusers.de
<lucasvo> juliux: any idea why I don't get any IP adress?
<juliux> lucasvo, sorry no
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> http://pastebin.com/463963
<juliux> |H8|L-a-s-e-r, you dont have activate any source
<juliux> |H8|L-a-s-e-r, uncomment line 2,3
<lucasvo> #
<lucasvo> # deb http://se.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy-backports main restricted universe multiverse
<lucasvo> #
<juliux> |H8|L-a-s-e-r, and than run sudo apt-get update
<lucasvo> # deb-src http://se.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy-backports main restricted universe multiverse
<lucasvo> remove # there
<juliux> lucasvo, pls no backports
<juliux> lucasvo, he should use line 2 and 3
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> k
<juliux> lucasvo, that should be enough
<lucasvo> juliux: you are right
<juliux> |H8|L-a-s-e-r, only remove the # in line 2 and 3
<lucasvo> strange
<lucasvo> it can't be dns error
<lucasvo> I mean dhcp
<juliux> lucasvo, look at /var/log/
<lucasvo> because I get an IP on the machine with ubuntu livecd
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> first line is this
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> deb cdrom:[Edubuntu 5.10 _Breezy Badger_ - Release i386 (20051012)] / breezy main restricted
<juliux> |H8|L-a-s-e-r, add on this line a #
<lucasvo> |H8|L-a-s-e-r: if you don't want to put in CD everytime you install packages and if you have constant internet connection, you can uncomment this line
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> k
<|H8|L-a-s-e-r> thz
<plume> I just installed Edubuntu (amd64) : ok, but vmlinuz that comes with is also amd64 and all my thin clients are i386 
<plume> where can i download the vmlinuz/initrd for i386
<plume> ?
<plume> (first time i use a irc, please don't shout on me)
<lucasvo> plume: ehm, there is some page in the wiki
<lucasvo> plume: I'll look for it
<lucasvo> plume:  I think this will only work with dapper
<lucasvo> plume:I don't know
<lucasvo> plume: ask ogra :D
<zhx> hello
<zhx> i need a real ubuntu evangelist
<zhx> edubuntu, specifically
<Burgwork> zhx, what sort and why?
<zhx> well, i work with a computer company in town that runs a program called computers4kids
<zhx> that takes old donated systems and donates them to needy families
<zhx> we currently load windows 98 (volume license) on them, and ive gotten the board to consider ubuntu or edubuntu as an alternative
<zhx> these are generally going to school aged kids, and i think edubuntu would be infinitely superior for this purpose
<zhx> over win98, that is
<Burgwork> yes it probably would
<Burgwork> where does the edubuntu evangelist come into the picture?
<zhx> well, i need a couple pointers on really selling this to the board
<zhx> "not windows" isn't going to go over well
<zhx> i'm also not familiar with ubuntu's compatibility with dialup modems
<Burgwork> so you need to sell value to the board
<Burgwork> dialup modems is kind of crappy
<zhx> it seems linux has come a long way in that regard
<zhx> but im still worried
<Burgwork> some of them work but they are a pain to configure
<zhx> most of these families, if they have internet connection at all, will be dialup
<zhx> yeah thats what i was worried about
<zhx> thats going to be a major hurdle
<Burgwork> I recognize that
<Burgwork> however, I don't consider it a deal killer
<Burgwork> people only need to configure their modems once and they use the machine every day for  other things
<zhx> the modem in this one seems to have installed fine
<zhx> i dont really have a means to test it here...
<zhx> yeah, i think edubuntu is great for school aged kids
<zhx> ive been checking it out for a couple days now
<Burgwork> here is the value I would pitch to the board (I do sales, in case you care)
<zhx> ha okay
<Burgwork> -virus free
<Burgwork> -easy to setup
<Burgwork> -designed for kids
<Burgwork> do you currently do support for the machines you hand out?
<zhx> i dont think so
<Burgwork> here is the feedback I have heard about putting Linux on donated machines
<zhx> ok
<Burgwork> usually about 50% come back and get windows on them
<zhx> oi
<zhx> thats the other thing i was afraid of
<zhx> still, 50%
<zhx> haha
<Burgwork> but that is fine, because the other half keeps their linux
<zhx> yeah
<Burgwork> and I consider that a net win
<zhx> definitely
<zhx> i believe very strongly in what ubuntu is doing
<zhx> and thats why ive been on their case about adopting it
<Burgwork> I would say this "Lets offer Ubuntu first and if then they want Windows, we give them 98"
<Burgwork> because both have their places
<zhx> mmhmm
<zhx> thats the other thing im concerned about
<Burgwork> sadly
<zhx> these are generally very low end machines
<zhx> our cpu "cutoff" is 400mhz
<zhx> ubuntu should run fine on 400mhz, right?
<Burgwork> is that the lowest end or the highest end?
<zhx> lowest
<Burgwork> that should be fine
<Burgwork> not speedy but it will work
<zhx> i think we generally do 128mbs ram
<zhx> this particular system has 192
<zhx> 677mhz cpu
<zhx> and it seems to run just fine
<Burgwork> 128 is going to grind a little with OO.o but that is about it
<Burgwork> and when dapper comes out, xubuntu should be in main
<Burgwork> and edubuntu is already considering doing a lowend version for xubuntu
<zhx> any sort of timeframe?
<Burgwork> Dapper will be released April 2006, unless the world ends
<zhx> haha
<zhx> oh yeah thats right, 6 month releases
<Burgwork> (K)(Ed)Ubuntu is released on a six month schedule
<zhx> well as it stands, i'm presenting this idea to the board first thursday of jan
<zhx> so far im very impressed with edubuntu
<zhx> i already have them offering several open source utilities on our win98 boxes
<zhx> firefox, thunderbird, openoffice, etc
<Burgwork> the thing that will sell them is value and pain, not features
<zhx> well pain is what im worried about with dialup modems
<Burgwork> find out what they would like to do better and then offer the features of edubuntu to solve those
<Burgwork> hence creating value
<zhx> see, im not sure how our windows 98 license currently works
<zhx> apparently we're allowed to install this on as many machines as  we please
<Burgwork> you probably have to give away the machines for  free
<Burgwork> and you can install as many as you like
<Burgwork> you can probably also get win 2k licenses as well
<zhx> mmhmm
<zhx> im also worried the board will think people will be alienated
<Burgwork> where do you live?
<zhx> wyoming
<zhx> oh, US
<Burgwork> I live in Canada, don't worry
<zhx> ha
<zhx> i really have to sell them on ubuntu's ease of install for us
<zhx> and ease of use for the end user
<Burgwork> but in order for them to consider Ubuntu, it must be better than what they have and solve some of their problems
<zhx> we really HAVE no problems with win98 is the...problem
<Burgwork> as long as it does that, minor issues like modems will not become major issues
<Burgwork> maybe not
<zhx> i just believe that edubuntu will do more for the type of people we're giving these to
<zhx> families with young kids
<Burgwork> so talk to some people that have just got the machines and ask them what they want to be better
<zhx> right now, the machines we give out dont really have any applications with "creativity" or "education" in mind
<Burgwork> exactly
<zhx> well,
<Burgwork> Pain can also include things they would like to do better
<zhx> i would assume 9 out of 10 people are using these boxes for email, light web surfing
<zhx> word processing
<zhx> you can do that sufficiently on either platform
<Burgwork> yes, but feature parity will never win them over
<RichiH_> shouldn't there have been a live cd last weekend?
<Burgwork> RichiH_, no idea
<RichiH_> Burgwork: it was a rhetorical question, there should ;)
* RichiH_ would want to have one in the next few days so he can mail it for Xmas
<zhx> right, which is why i have to sell them the idea that "ubuntu is better than windows"
<zhx> keep in mind i work for a microsoft business partner
<ogra__> RichiH_: yes, but it was delayed some days, the first daily build (yet untested) came out today
<zhx> so the fact that theyre considering this is unreal
<Burgwork> zhx, I am lucky, I sell Linux for a living
<ogra__> RichiH_: note that this is in heavy development, it might or might not work
<RichiH_> ogra__: bleh
<RichiH_> ogra__: but ok, i will take what i can get
<ogra__> RichiH_: what do you expect after 1 month of development in a development release ? 
<RichiH_> personally, i prefer vanilla ubuntu, but an edubuntu might be good for my sister's daughter
<RichiH_> ogra__: being used to debian, not much ;p
<ogra__> exactly ... 
<ogra__> the current image will nothave edubuntu themes yet... and if it has the same bugs the install cd has, its nothing to give to a child yet ...
<ogra__> i.e. gamin is totally broken ... so the menu doesnt work
<ogra__> network cards dont come up by default 
<ogra__> there might be language issues
<ogra__> etc etc
<ogra__> its really only a test build, we will release in april ...
<Burgwork> zhx, if you want me to help you sell this to the board, feel free to contact me. corey.burger@gmail.com
<zhx> definitely, will do
<zhx> anyway, that was my lunch break
<zhx> thanks for your time
<Burgwork> zhx, np
<juliux> ogra_test, ogra__ which nick has daniel stone?
<ogra_test> daniels
<juliux> ogra_test, thanks
<mhz> ogra_test: can I bug you with one question?
<mhz> juliux: hi
<juliux> hi mhz 
<mhz> ogra__: I really need to show Edubuntu in a TV (the guy who would lend me the projector couldnt do it)
<mhz> I can only see the teminals (Fx) but no GUI. the cui I get is terribly awful
<mhz> cui = gui
<mhz> However, D.S.L live cd looks just perfect on TV
<mhz> ??/
<mhz> I need some hints please, ogra_test and ogra__ and juliux and everyone :)
<John_at_LMi> Good afternoon. I too, am looking some help with Edubuntu.
<John_at_LMi> For starters, a link for documentation. I've installed as workstation, logged in, and have a non-working mouse and no idea of how to even open a shell window.
<John_at_LMi> Anyone else here and looking in besides mhz?
<mhz> John_at_LMi: hi
<mhz> John_at_LMi: did you check the EdubuntuInstallNotes in the wiki?
<mhz> IIRC one guy also had some issues with mouse and were already solved
<mhz>  but I may be wrong
<John_at_LMi> Good afternoon, mhz. I did check there, but found nothing like you describe. I'll look again now.
<mhz> John_at_LMi: be patient with the wiki, it has too much info, so try searching using the 'text'btton
<John_at_LMi> I'd also like to know if i'm the only one trying to use this for a single family with a single child, vs. setting up a lab.
<mhz> John_at_LMi: nope, you are not alone
<mhz> Edubuntu can be many things
<mhz> it's just a matter of good taste :)
<lucasvo> plume: /w 12
<lucasvo> sorry
<lucasvo> my ltsp isn't working anymore after update to dapper
<lucasvo>  * Starting rpc mountd...                                                                                                                             [fail] 
<mhz> lucasvo: I have not tested dapper yet
<mhz> that sounds like NFS not working
<lucasvo> mhz: yes
<mhz> IIRC, during todays meeting ogra mentioned sthg about nfs bugs
<mhz> :(
<lucasvo> ogra_test: do you know hot to get nfs on edubuntu working?
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/nfs-common start
<lucasvo>  * Starting nfs statd...                                                                                                                              [fail] 
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$
<lucasvo> how an I debug ?
<lucasvo> *can
<ogra_test> hi all
<ogra_test> John_at_LMi, are you using a serial mouse ?
<ogra_test> mhz, did you try lower resolutions for the gui ? 
<ogra_test> lucasvo, look in /var/log/daemon.log
<lucasvo> John_at_LMi: I had the same problem :D
<ogra_test> lucasvo, with the workstation version ? i doubt it
<lucasvo> John_at_LMi: can you do modprobe psmouse on the client?
<lucasvo> ogra_test: yes
<ogra_test> John_at_LMi, to get a terminal window, try alt+F2
<ogra_test> and type gnome-terminal at the prompt
<ogra_test> lucasvo, really ? i thought that was in ltsp ?? 
<ogra_test> on a normal desktop psmouse usually loads fine
<lucasvo> ogra_test: no it was ubuntu ltsp
<ogra_test> thats what i maen
<ogra_test> mean
<lucasvo> edubuntu-server I mean
<ogra_test> the normal desktop doesnt have this prob
<lucasvo> not the ltsp package
<ogra_test> oh, so not on the client ...
<lucasvo> ogra_test: it was on the ltsp client
<ogra_test> yes, thats a known prob, but it doesnt happen on the desktop normally ...
<lucasvo> ah, I didn't read the "workstation install"
<lucasvo> ogra_test: I can't find anything in /var/log/daemon.log
<ogra_test> there was some race condition in the hardware detection of the client at boot ... 
<ogra_test> lucasvo, there must be *anything* from the nfsd or statd
<ogra_test> is your portmap running already ? 
<lucasvo> ogra_test: yes
<ogra_test> how does your /etc/exports look like ? 
<ogra_test> /opt/ltsp       *(ro,no_root_squash,async) 
<lucasvo> /opt/ltsp       *(ro,no_root_squash,async)
<ogra_test> this line should be in there (only one time)
<lucasvo> yes it is there only one time
<ogra_test> did you tra starting nfs-kernel-server ? 
<ogra_test> try even
<lucasvo> install: cannot create regular file `/opt/ltsp/pkg_cache/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts': No such file or directory
<lucasvo> install: cannot create regular file `/opt/ltsp/data/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts': No such file or directory
<lucasvo> Removing `local diversion of /sbin/start-stop-daemon to /sbin/start-stop-daemon.distrib'
<lucasvo> ^^ when I do ltsp-build-client
<lucasvo> ogra_test: yes I did
<ogra_test> eeek
<ogra_test> dont build the chroot if you upgrade
<ogra_test> just do a sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ apt-get diest-upgrade
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/464196
<ogra_test> s/diest/dist
<lucasvo> ogra_test: I deleted the chroot
<lucasvo> but _only_ the i386
<ogra_test> taht doesnt matter
<ogra_test> the /proc filesystem is still in /proc mounts for the chroot...
<ogra_test> so all installing happens in the main system
<lucasvo> huh?
<lucasvo> I don't understand
<ogra_test> you cant just wipe the chroot 
<lucasvo> ehm, so what is with nfs?
<ogra_test> you have to chroot into it first and unmount /proc and /sys
<lucasvo> when I do what?
<ogra_test> so if you run the build client script then, it tries to build a complete new system in / instead of /opt/ltsp
<lucasvo> ogra_test: really?
<ogra_test> yep
<ogra_test> did your screen flash while building the chroot ? 
<lucasvo> what building chroot?
<ogra_test> ltsp-build-client
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$ sudo ltsp-build-clientlucasvo@lama:~$ sudo ltsp-build-client
<lucasvo> no it didn't
<ogra_test> ok, you might be lucky... but that was very dangerous ...
<lucasvo> NOTE: Root directory /opt/ltsp/i386 already exists.  This might lead to problems.
<John_at_LMi> re. It was a PS/2 mouse, now i'm trying a serial mouse. I rebooted, hoping there was some auto-detect.
<lucasvo> ^^ what's the problem?
<ogra_test> never try to build a chroot on top of another
<lucasvo> ogra_test: I am not in chroot
<ogra_test> lucasvo, ltsp-build-client is
<John_at_LMi> found the terminal window, after finding ALT+F1 by mistake. :)
<lucasvo> aha
<John_at_LMi> so: I'm simply trying to make a mouse work. Is there some discovery/troubleshooting tool?
<lucasvo> ogra_test: building failed because of crappy connection... so I redid without deleting
<ogra_test> John_at_LMi, no, that wiont help, seems you really have the same problem lucasvo had, even if i never saw that in workstation installs
<John_at_LMi> i notice there's no /dev/mouse.
<ogra_test> there doesnt need to
<John_at_LMi> modprobe psmouse: i'll try that now.
<ogra_test> put the word psmouse into the file /etc/modules
<ogra_test> that will solve it
<John_at_LMi> ogra: i'll try that now.
<lucasvo> John_at_LMi: it is the same but it add's the module permanently
<lucasvo> John_at_LMi: so if modprobe works, it should work as well
<ogra__> you need to restart X after modprobing ...
<lucasvo> John_at_LMi: ctrl+alt+backspace
<ogra__> thats why i generally dont give that advice, its just wasting time
<lucasvo> ogra__: ehm so what isn't working with my nfs :P
<ogra__> because you completely wiped your system ? 
<lucasvo> ogra__: I didn't
<John_at_LMi> restarting now.
<lucasvo> how can I find out?
<ogra__> running the build-client script on top of an exisiting chroot usually does that
<lucasvo> ogra__: so how can I find out, reboot?
<ogra__> try it, do you have another machine for the worst case ? 
<lucasvo> ogra__: mr. livecd :D
<ogra__> oki
<lucasvo> and a second machine
<ogra__> might be that you land at ldm now
<lucasvo> lol
<lucasvo> ok
<lucasvo> ha it didn't!
<lucasvo>  * Starting rpc mountd...                                                [fail] 
<lucasvo> ogra__: now, what should I do?
<John_at_LMi> so, ogra: first, thank you.
<John_at_LMi> 2nd, i still have no mouse. :)
<John_at_LMi> what i did: first, modprobe psmouse.
<lucasvo> John_at_LMi: try lsmod | grep psmouse
<John_at_LMi> then, looked at /etc/modules, and saw that psmouse was there  already.
<John_at_LMi> so i restarted.
<lucasvo> John_at_LMi: what is in your Xorg.conf?
<lucasvo> ogra__: rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386
<John_at_LMi> i'll try lsmod, and look at the Xorg.conf
<lucasvo> ogra__: ltsp-build-client
<ogra__> lucasvo: first chroot to /opt/ltsp/i386 and unmount /proc and /sys
<lucasvo> John_at_LMi: http://pastebin.com/464227 < there should be something like this in you /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<ogra__> then you can run the command again
<lucasvo> sudo mkdir /opt/ltsp/i386
<John_at_LMi> lsmod | grep psmouse gets me: psmouse 26116 0.
<ogra__> nope
<John_at_LMi> without the period. :)
<ogra__> John_at_LMi thats fine
<lucasvo> ogra__: but I did :(
<ogra__> lsmod|grep mousedev
<ogra__> should give you a similar line
<John_at_LMi> that gives me: 10912 1
<John_at_LMi> or rather "mousedev 10912 1"
<ogra__> fine
<John_at_LMi> afk to look at Xorg.conf
<ogra__> and you are sure the mouse works ?
<lucasvo> ogra__: I accidentaly deleted the chroot, how can I build a new one/
<lucasvo> ?
<ogra__> just make the dir /opt/ltsp
<ogra__> the rest is done by the build-client script
<lucasvo> so I MAY run build-client without being in chroot?
<ogra__> nope
<ogra__> just run it with sudo on the server 
<lucasvo>  nope?
<ogra__> the chroot is the dir /opt/ltsp/i386, you cant be in it if it doesnt exist
<lucasvo> ok
<lucasvo> ogra__: I will set up a lab with fvwm and ltsp for testing purpose...
<lucasvo> ogra__: what would I have to do?
<ogra__> install fvwm instead of gnome 
<lucasvo> ogra__: can't I install both?
<lucasvo> ogra__: will it automatically work on clients as well?
<ogra__> you can, but you have to pick a default
<ogra__> you can leave gnome in place, but have to select gnome explicitly in gdm to make it work on the server
<ogra__> yup
* ogra__ goes liveCD testing
<lucasvo> xbox360 would be quite a good ltsp server :P
<lucasvo> and cheap
<John_at_LMi> re: xorg.conf was set to use a psmouse, and i was trying a serial mouse.
<John_at_LMi> :)
<John_at_LMi> so.
<lucasvo> John_at_LMi: and working with ps2 mouse?
<John_at_LMi> also it seems my original ps mouse was a dud.
<John_at_LMi> and now, i'm using a different ps mosue, it works.
<John_at_LMi> so, thank you.
<lucasvo> John_at_LMi: no problem
<lucasvo> John_at_LMi: I don't know exactly what you mean wiht:
<lucasvo> is it reasonable to set up a lab for only two pc"?
<lucasvo> I am using ltsp with one server and 1 client and I think it is worth
<Burgwork> lucasvo, YES
<Burgwork> oops
<lucasvo> Burgwork: np
<Burgwork> lucasvo, I did mean that you but I didn;t mean to shout
<Burgwork> lucasvo, you might also want to consider multiseat with the new Xorg in dapper
<lucasvo> Burgwork: you mean it is worth
<lucasvo> multiseat?
<Burgwork> one machhine, two monitors, two users
* lucasvo would like to have a jackpc
<lucasvo> Burgwork: hm, cool
<lucasvo> Burgwork: any additional hardware needed?
<Burgwork> http://blog.chris.tylers.info/index.php?/archives/14-Multiseat-X-Under-X11R6.97.0.html
<lucasvo> Burgwork: thanks
<Burgwork> lucasvo, np
<ogra_live> hmm, looks like we have a liveCD
<lucasvo> ogra__: cool
<ogra_live> no artwork yet and its all en_US
<ogra_live> but the rest seems fine
<ogra_live> oh, and it doesnt detect my widescreen lappie ... only 1024x786
<lucasvo> ogra_live: where can I change to teens artwork?
<spacey> how do you build that ltsp client chroot on normal ubuntu box
<spacey> there was a ltsp-build-client script?
<lucasvo> spacey: apt-get install edubuntu-server
<lucasvo> and then run ltsp-build-client I think
<spacey> but i'm afraid that will pull in the whole mess :P like dhcpd etc.
<ogra_live> yup
<spacey> i couldn't find the script with dpkg -S
<lucasvo> spacey: if ls /opt/ltsp/i386/ gives some output, don't try it first delete
<spacey> :P
<lucasvo> spacey: it is some ltsp package
<spacey> i'm sure it doesn't :)
<ogra_live> spacey, ltsp-server 
<ogra_live> that comes without dhcpd
<ogra_live> but make sure to install openssh-server too
<spacey> thats already installed ofcourse ;)
<spacey> easy to build a dapper chroot on breezy? :)
<spacey> should be
<ogra_live> nope
<ogra_live> you should try the dapper ltsp packages then
<spacey> yeah i mean ltsp client chroot on breezy server
<lucasvo> is AMD Au1550 ltsp compatible?
<ogra_live> as bonus it has multiarch and themeable ldm <(
<spacey> ltsp client dapper chroot
<ogra_live> you can specify the target dist in ltsp-build-client, might or might not work
<ogra_live> i'm not sure if it installs all the default packages
<lucasvo> ogra_live: so far I don't have any problems with dapper
<ogra_live> lucasvo, look at kernel.org, not sure if its supported by linux
<spacey> ah good
<spacey> i'll give that a try
<spacey> should be fun to play with
<ogra_live> ok, now amd64 testing....
<ogra_live> brb
<lucasvo> ogra__: seems towork with kernel 3.4
<lucasvo> -1
<lucasvo> ogra__: but I didn't find it on kernel.org
<lucasvo> and I am too lazy to download kernel source :D
<lucasvo> kernel-source-2.4.27 < when I tyoe sudo apt-get install kernel-source it downloads 2.4
<ogra__> sure, ubuntu doesnt use kernel-* packages
<lucasvo> ogra__: Sound currently not supported < is written under LTSP Term 140, why?
<ogra__> and we dont support 2.4 in any form
<ogra__> because there might be no drivers i guess
<ogra__> ok, going on with testing
<lucasvo> hm, ok
<lucasvo> and do you know anything about the HP t5505?
<spacey> hm /etc/ltsp/ltsp-build-client.conf doesn't exist.;(
<spacey> should it?
<spacey> ogra__, ? :o
<lucasvo> spacey: it doesn't exist on my machine :D
<spacey> since the ltsp-build-client checks if it exists
<lucasvo> ogra_live: I don't know what I should do with my nfs :(
<lucasvo>  * Starting nfs statd...                                                                                                                              [fail] 
<lucasvo> and there isn't any logentry
<ogra_live> and connections surely dont work _ 
<ogra_live> ?
<lucasvo> ogra_live: of what?
<lucasvo> I can't start nfs
<lucasvo> andthe client says no IP address
<lucasvo> which is not true
<ogra_live> you need an extra option in the dhcpd.conf
<lucasvo> /etc/export is correct
<lucasvo> ogra_live: I have
<lucasvo> it was working with the same dhcpd.conf already
<ogra_live> next-server ...
<lucasvo>         filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";
<lucasvo>         option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
<ogra_live> dhcpd changed
<lucasvo> huh?
<ogra_live> you need the next-server directive
<lucasvo> ogra_live: any howto on the internet?
<ogra_live> with the ip of the nfs server behind it...
<ogra_live> just add it above filename
<ogra_live> nxet-server yourip;
<lucasvo> ogra__: ok
<lucasvo> ogra__: silly, I still don't get any IP
<agente87> hello
<lucasvo> hi agente87 
<agente87> i need some help, somebody who has installed edubuntu?
<lucasvo> agente87: almost everybody
<agente87> jajajja
<lucasvo> just ask
<lucasvo> I mean everybody here
<agente87> i have installed edubuntu in my classroom
<lucasvo> agente87: with ltsp?
<agente87> that my problem
<lucasvo> agente87: did you install edubuntu-server or only workstation?
<lucasvo> agente87: what?
<agente87> i want to install a server
<agente87> but i dont know how
<lucasvo> agente87: sudo apt-get install edubuntu-server
<agente87> so easy?
<lucasvo> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup
<spacey> someone has an example dhcpd.conf for me? (can put it on pastebin?)
<spacey> he doesn't want to generate it because its not on the same machine;x
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/464376
<spacey> hah
<spacey> its on that link
<spacey> as well :P
<spacey> great
<lucasvo> spacey: :D
<lucasvo> agente87: first do sudo apt-get install edubuntu-server
<lucasvo> agente87: then sudo ltsp-build-client
<lucasvo> agente87: this may take several minutes
<lucasvo> agente87: ah yes, and you have to set up your clients:
<agente87> what can you do with the server and the clients?
<lucasvo> agente87: read this: http://www.ltsp.org/documentation/ltsp-4.1/ltsp-4.1-en.html#AEN618
<agente87> ok 
<lucasvo> agente87: a server is where all the users log in(you need about 128MB per client logged in on the server)
<lucasvo> so it should be powerful
<lucasvo> the clients are only running a minimal linux which start up a graphical desktop and loggs into server
<agente87> 128MB RAM or HDD?
<lucasvo> RAM
<lucasvo> so if you have 10 clients you should have about 1.5 GB Ram on the server
<agente87> wow, too much for my server
<lucasvo> agente87: but: you only need 64MB ram on the client
<lucasvo> no disk on the client, no CD drive
<lucasvo> ...
<lucasvo> only floppy or special network card
<agente87> i am changing from Windows Xp to edubuntu
<lucasvo> agente87: do you have one user per child?
<lucasvo> agente87: or do you have one user per machine?
<lucasvo> at the moment?
<agente87> one user per machine
<lucasvo> ah, in that case you don't need ltsp
<lucasvo> of course it would be better but you would also need better hardware on the server
<agente87> yes, my server isn't good
<agente87> i have a very usefull program
<agente87> windows based
<lucasvo> agente87: if you want to use existing hardware, you can just install normal edubuntu-workstation on every client, but you will not be able to have one user per child
<lucasvo> but you could mount a shared directory where every child has it's own folder over nfs
<lucasvo> which would then be on every client
<agente87> over nfs?
<lucasvo> agente87: network file system
<agente87> with samba?
<lucasvo> nfs is something like samba
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> agente87: you are now using samba?
<agente87> how can i control the clients?
<agente87> yes, i think 
<lucasvo> you can't :D
<agente87> jajajja
<lucasvo> what do you want to control?
<lucasvo> you can use vnc for remote login
<agente87> yes something like vnc
<agente87> i using now a program called Edebenet
<lucasvo> an other option would be, to sell your hardware and buy 1 powerfull server and several clients
<agente87> it a public schooll we can't sell hardware
<lucasvo> agente87: hm, you could try to find a more powerful server, than you could use ltsp :D which would make it a LOT easier
<lucasvo> agente87: http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/200031.html?id=WMUUwaqQ  < these small boxes are powerful enough for one client
<lucasvo> agente87: or you can just use old hardware, people throw away, I am using it and for clients it is ok
<agente87> really amazing
<lucasvo> agente87: depends on how flexible you are
<shmooz> hey there, ive got this ASUS-X motherboard A7V400-MX with an amd sempron 2200
<lucasvo> shmooz: I have a very similar combination :D
<shmooz> I put in the edubuntu install disc and I get this error pretty quickly..
<lucasvo> which one?
<agente87> i'll try to stole some Pentiums I
<shmooz> Your CPU does not support Long Mode. Use a 32 bit version
<lucasvo> hm
<shmooz> any ideas
<shmooz> sempron is only 64 bit isnt it
<lucasvo> shmooz: -> #ubuntu-kernler or #ubuntu would be a better help
<lucasvo> shmooz: no it isn't
<shmooz> I figured the floating point co-processor maybe
<lucasvo> shmooz: it is similar to amd64 but it is 32
<agente87> have you downloaded the 64bit version?
<agente87> lucasvo
<lucasvo> ah that may be the problem:D
<lucasvo> agente87: yes?
<shmooz> In the past 3 weeks. I installed edubuntu with the same disc on a sempron 2500 ans sempron 2600
<agente87> sorry
<shmooz> no problem
<shmooz> yes
<lucasvo> shmooz: so 64bit?
<lucasvo> shmooz: you have 64bit working on sempron?
<shmooz> yes it is edubuntu 64 and same with the two semprons I installed in past couple weeks
<shmooz> so that yes to all the past 6 questions ;^)
<lucasvo> afaik sempron is only 32bit
<lucasvo> shmooz: as it says in sempron datasheet, it is only 32bit
<lucasvo> http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_739_11683,00.html < AMD Sempron Product Data Sheet
<lucasvo> agente87: what hardware do you have in school?
<agente87> i have 25 PIV 2,4 256 RAM and 40 GB HDD
<agente87> and no server
<agente87> i'm using one of them as a server
<agente87> what do you think?
<shmooz> sorry ive been at amd to try and confirm about 32 bit sempron
<agente87> have you tried with the i386 version?
<shmooz> ok check this http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop/SideBySide.aspx?opn=SDA2500DUT3D&opn=SDA2500AIO3BX
<shmooz> it seems that the sempron 2500 is available as 32 bit and 64 bit
<shmooz> while the sempron  2200 is only 32 bit
<shmooz> i tried a 32bit Kubuntu which mostly installs but chokes on xwindows or kde and does not come up with gui
<shmooz> using aptitude to try and update things also chokes on kernel image update
<agente87> sorry i think i can't help you
<shmooz> the kubuntu disc is about 3 to 6 months old so I think it is basically choking on completeing the global update
* spacey gonna boot in pxe now *hopefully*
<spacey> brb
<shmooz> so basically I have to download the latest 32 bit edubuntu iso and burn a new one.
<spacey> ah didn't work
<spacey> thinclient failed on "mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev" and "mounting /dev/ on /root/dev" and target filesystem doesn't have /sbin/init
<spacey> hmmm
<lucasvo> agente87: re
<agente87> lucasvo: are you there?
<lucasvo> agente87: in that case, you can a) buy a new server for ltsp and waste super-high-power p4 as clients or b) you can install it like you have installed windows
#edubuntu 2005-12-20
<lucasvo> one user per client
<agente87> and share a folder?
<lucasvo> agente87: yes
<agente87> but, i will try the other configuration with other classroom
<agente87> and older classroom
<lucasvo> agente87: which one?
<Nytryx> MHZ!
<agente87> i have some PII, nobody want to use them
<agente87> are they too slow?
<lucasvo> agente87: they would probably be excellent clients for ltsp
<agente87> 128 MB per client
<lucasvo> hm, 25x100.- for windows license and you would have a really neat server
<lucasvo> agente87: yes
<agente87> http://www.edebenet.com/esp/presentacion/profesor.htm
<agente87> this is the software i have mentioned
<agente87> with this program i can control my pupils
<Burgwork> ogra__, I like the terms "Observe Desktop" and "Control Desktop" for our buttons
<Burgwork> ogra__, having seen the link that agente87 just put up
<lucasvo> agente87: with ltsp there is some app like this
<lucasvo> agente87: Burgwork is talking about it, Teacher Control Panel
<Burgwork> agente87, it is called student control panel and it is in the beginnings fo developement
<Burgwork> agente87, so tell us what drives you nuts and what you like about thaht program
<Burgwork> best to  email edubuntu-devel with that informatin
<lucasvo> it will be released in april 06 I think
<Burgwork> it needs more people to work on it
<spacey> ogra__, do the errors i paste before sound familiar?
<Nytryx> brb 
<lucasvo> Burgwork: I would like to help, but I neither know python nor glade
<Burgwork> lucasvo, do you use a similar application currently? Can you help with finding out how teachers actually use it?
<lucasvo> Burgwork: I only know apple remote desktop
<Burgwork> lucasvo, ah ok. I am looking for people who actually use what agente87 uses
<agente87> i'm using it with my pupils (from 6 to 12)
<lucasvo> Burgwork: but what I know from there is: a list with users and what programm is active(on top of desktop)
<lucasvo> Burgwork: it is quite usefull
<lucasvo> Burgwork: than, a function to blan all screens would be useful
<lucasvo> *blank
<lucasvo> 
<agente87> yes it very usefull
<lucasvo> Transmite el contenido de la pantalla del profesor a los PC de los alumnos seleccionados. 
<agente87> joer de donde eres?
<Nytryx> ogra__
<lucasvo> ^^^ stream video from teacher pc to all pupil pcs
<lucasvo> agente87: I don't understand what you say
<Nytryx> ogra_
<Nytryx> ogra__
<agente87> sorry, i thought you can speak spanish
<lucasvo> Nytryx: ogra isn't there
<Nytryx> damn!
<Nytryx> ty
<lucasvo> agente87: I know a little bit italiano
<lucasvo> agente87: and french
<agente87> yes, i can start programs and navigation
<Nytryx> ok bbl
<lucasvo> agente87: so if there are engough similarities I understand it
<agente87> you can guide all pupils pcs through a web page
<lucasvo> Burgwork: you understand spanish?
<lucasvo> http://www.redianet.com/img/pantallazo2.gif
<Burgwork> lucasvo, nope
<lucasvo> ^^^ there is a similar view on apple remote desktop
<agente87> i do
<Burgwork> hmm, looks interested
<lucasvo> Burgwork: I can help you translate
<Burgwork> ing
<lucasvo> Burgwork: is there any public wiki page?
<lucasvo> for ptc?
<Burgwork> TeacherTool
<lucasvo> Burgwork: I will add feautures there
<agente87> what do you want to translate?
<lucasvo> Locked Page
<lucasvo> agente87: feautures it has
<lucasvo> agente87: feautures ubuntu should have
<lucasvo> Burgwork: I can't edit the wiki page
<Burgwork> lucasvo, you need to login first
<lucasvo> Burgwork: ah ok
<Burgwork> add your screenshot as well as thge one from agente87 
<lucasvo> Burgwork: ok
<agente87> they are very similar
<agente87> !!!!
<agente87> i will try to translate
<lucasvo> agente87: just post it here if you don't want to make a launchpad account
<Burgwork> agente87, we need teachers to be able to tell us and maybe even show us how they use these pieces of software so that scp is the best there is
<agente87> I a theacher, i teach childrens in the mormings and their parents, in the evening
<agente87> I use it as a proyector
<Burgwork> what we need is basically "When student does X, I do X" or "When I want to do X, I do Y"
<agente87> my screen can be watched in my pupils monitor
<Burgwork> and "The most common 5 things I do are ..."
<agente87> ok
<Burgwork> agente87, email me at corey.burger@gmail.com
<Burgwork> and I will format and send on the edubuntu-devel list
<lucasvo> Burgwork: how should I name the paragraph? :D
<Burgwork> lucasvo, Similar programs
<Burgwork> lucasvo, sorry, edit TeachersPet
<lucasvo> hi ogra 
<lucasvo> Burgwork: added some contents
<lucasvo> Burgwork: but I want that picture to be a link, how can I do that? 
<Burgwork> no idea but don't worry about it
<Burgwork> great work and thanks
<Burgwork> having them all inline makes for easy viewing
<lucasvo> Burgwork: but it may be problem because of copyright
<Burgwork> lucasvo, screenshots are fairuse and we only link
<agente87> lucasvo, I have sent you a test mail
<lucasvo> agente87: to which addreass? or do you mean Burgwork?
<agente87> maybe
<agente87> sorry
<Burgwork> agente87, yes I go tit
<lucasvo> redianet added as well
<lucasvo> I go no 
<lucasvo> cu
<Burgwork> lucasvo, cheers and thanks again
<lucasvo> Burgwork: please contact me if there is something I can do...
<lucasvo> Burgwork: like draw symbols, write docs, test ...
<Burgwork> lucasvo, ok
<John_at_LMi> Hello again. I'd like some advice about performance on older hardware: i've installed workstation on a P6-233 with 256MB RAM. It's slow and sluggish as hell. How to improve that? This box will be going to a preschool child who will never do anything but play games on it.
<agente87> lucasvo : how can i help?
<Burgwork> John_at_LMi, you just have a workstation?
<Burgwork> agente87, you looking to speak to me?
<agente87> jajajaja, 
<agente87> yes, i think i have to improve my english, sorry
<Burgwork> np
<Burgwork> your english is better than my spanish
<agente87> i have tried edebenet and it is very usefull, a bit slow if you use more than 800 X 600
<John_at_LMi> Burgwork: yes, just the one machine, which i installed as a workstation.
<Burgwork> agente87, do you think you could send an email in spanish about what you liked/disliked about edebenet and how you would improve that? We have some spanish users so they can translate into english if that is something you don't think you can do
<agente87> yes, i'm trying to write it in english
<Burgwork> agente87, cheers
<agente87> if it too bad i will make it in spanish ;-D
<Burgwork> ok
<agente87> i have send you the most usefull features
<Burgwork> thanks
<Burgwork> some of the things you mention are not actually on the feature list yet
<Burgwork> agente87, are there other teachers you know that use similar software?
<agente87> yes i was going to tell you now
<agente87> teachers in my work
<agente87> i have send you a second message, but in spanish
<agente87> i have said, that the program may have a evaluation method
<Burgwork> agente87, I will pass both these messages on to the edubuntu-devel mailing list, if that is ok
<agente87> like moodle
<Burgwork> hmm
<agente87> may i join the mailing list, if you want some help
<Burgwork> that is somewhat outside the scope of teacher tool
<Burgwork> agente87, taht would be great
<agente87> where can i sign?
<Burgwork> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
<John_at_LMi> Anyone else have general advice on how to improve performance on older hardware? For exmaple, how to turn off unneeded services?
<agente87> well see you,
<agente87> good night
<Burgwork> agente87, cheers
<Burgwork> John_at_LMi, there isn't much you can do beyond changing your default desktop
<Burgwork> John_at_LMi, install xubuntu-desktop and then use that
<John_at_LMi> would i still be able to use gcompris and other games that run under GDM?
<Burgwork> yes
<Burgwork> you would just be using xfce and not gnome
<John_at_LMi> alright, i'll try installing xubuntu-desktop. Can i do that from the Synaptic Package Manger?
<Burgwork> hmm
<Burgwork> should be able to
<John_at_LMi> if so it's not obvious. Perhaps using apt-get?
<Burgwork> same repos
<Burgwork> apt-get and synaptic query the same database
<Burgwork> you need universe enabled
<John_at_LMi> lol..universe, eh? assuming that i'm technically savvy and ubuntu-ignorant, what does that mean and how do i do it?
<Burgwork> John_at_LMi, wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesHowto
<John_at_LMi> thank you, Burgwork. I'll read that and try it now.
<Nytryx> ok ive converted to ubuntu on my desktop its going to take some serious work to get me to switch on my laptops lol
<Nytryx> well just on my laptop lol
<Nytryx> great OS! 
<John_at_LMi> Alright, i've enabled universe and installed xubuntu-desktop; any other tips for improving performance on an older machine? 
<John_at_LMi> I've also just installed bum and am poking at it now.
<arkan0x> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~scott/software/bzrk-diff.png  what editor is this ??  o is part of bazaar ?
<John_at_LMi> alright, my install is done.
<John_at_LMi> thank you various folks for the help.
<mhz> John_at_LMi: glad you could do it!
<mhz> wlecome to the club!
<mhz> :)
<John_at_LMi> just for your curiosity: i'm a Mac geek and part-time Windows & FreeBSD geek at a small ISP. I had an extra old box, and i saw a craigslist ad from a family that wanted a machine for their 4 yr old. So, I'd just read that review in Linux Journal, and i decided what the hell, i'll give it a shot.
<mhz> heehhe
<mhz> isn't couriosity just wonderful
<konfuzed> hm
<konfuzed> hm
<konfuzed> hm
<konfuzed> ll
<mhz> highvoltage: hi there.
<mhz> highvoltage: how can I get access to or include an image at a LP description on LP team page?
<JaneW> sorry about missing the meeting yesterday guys
<jsgotangco> hey JaneW how are you?
<JaneW> was feeling really awful, I thought I'd lie down for 20 minutes and fell asleep for 4 hours!
<ogra> then you must have needed it :)
<Yagisan> JaneW: Hope you feel better today
<JaneW> jsgotangco: MUCH better today thanks.
<jsgotangco> JaneW, i wonder though if you'll be part of AsiaBusinessTour
<jsgotangco> probably not
<jsgotangco> :(
<jsgotangco> JaneW, do you know Hande?
<JaneW> I have heard of Hande but not met him/her...
<jsgotangco> JaneW, yeah i don't know if Hande is a he/she
<jsgotangco> i received email from him/her
<lucasvo> Burgwork: did you forward mails to eduuntu-devel already?
* mhz is waking up
<mhz> JaneW: hi. I am glad you're feeling betta
<mhz> JaneW: you can bet that next time you feel bad, Mr. Edubuntu can do very good job in the role of ograW :)
<JaneW> oooh good to hear
<JaneW> not that I had any doubt
<mhz> the only problem, is that he has no Cakes for us :(
<JaneW> we'll have to fix that!
<mhz> heheh
<irvin> has anyone got to test the live cd yet?
<mhz> not me, I fell asleep on the couch before I got to start downloading
<mhz> and I'll have to wait for a less traffic hour, 'coz my bandwith is not fast at all
<spacey> i'm sad, my poor thinclient doesn't work
<ogra> irvin, yes
<ogra> apart from powerpc, that one is still downloading here 
* juliux will burn the live cd now
<ogra> ppc install will still have the old bug in ltsp, i'm about to fix that here along with the thin-client-memory-usage impelmentation... so only workstation install will work in flight 2 
<ogra> but the others are tested and fine ...
<ogra> apart from the known bugs indeed ;)
<irvin> is schooltool included in the edubuntu cd?
<irvin> on 5.10?
<juliux> irvin, i have here a prozess named schooltool so i think yes
<irvin> looks like sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop does not install it by default
<ogra> nope
<ogra> its in the edubuntu-server package ;)
<ogra> (which is installed in the default, but not the workstation install)
<irvin> i see
<ogra> neither on the liveCD 
<juliux> ogra, can you explain me why schooltool needs so much virtual memory ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> i didnt do much with it yet ...
<juliux> ogra, it needs 130mb that is more as evolution
<ogra> its a server ...
<juliux> ogra, i didnt do anything with it i only install it
<ogra> yup
<juliux> hm very strange
<ogra> it runs a webserver ...
<juliux> ogra, the livecd boot screen looks very cool
<ogra> yup
<ogra> thats Kamions work ...
* mhz is so much wanting to have livecd to test
<juliux> ogra, but it reminds me a little bit on suse
<mhz> ogra: then I should present a LiveCd + DVD + Install CD for edubuntu ? any other CD like stuff needed?
<mhz> (and for 3 architectures)
<juliux> cool the livecd is now fast
<juliux> er
<ogra> mhz, yes, if its ready ...
<juliux> ogra, who has make the livecd?
<ogra> the current one is stil very buggy
<juliux> yes very buggu
<juliux> *y
<ogra> lamont makes the livefs and Kamion creates the iso, i do the seeds 
<juliux> the Applications menu is broken
<juliux> an no edubuntu artwork
<ogra> as everywhere in dapper
<juliux> hehe
<ogra> its there, its just enabled in the wrong place, gconf changed
<juliux> it was a very good decision to use a cd rw
<ogra> heh, yes
<ogra> i never use anything else during development ...
<juliux> i extra buy a cd rw so i can test the live cd
<ogra> bte, the bootscreen is from suse, a suse guy even helped with it
<ogra> *btw
<juliux> ah ok
* mhz BB
<spacey> hi
<spacey> should /etc/exports contain /opt/ltsp or /opt/ltsp/i386 ?
<ogra> the first
<spacey> my client doesn't want to boot
<spacey> it exists in a busybox shell (initramfs i presume)
<spacey> and can't mount stuff
<ogra> yup
<spacey> mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev failed
<ogra> thats a "bug" in dhcpd 3.0.3
<spacey> aha
<ogra>   option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
<ogra>   next-server 192.168.100.32;
<ogra>   filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";
<ogra>   option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
<ogra> add your server ip for next-server in your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<spacey> my config is a bit differnt.
<ogra> i'll fix that 
<spacey> i have the next-server specified
<ogra> oh
<ogra> then it should work just fine
<spacey>         next-server             10.101.191.20;
<spacey>         option root-path        "10.101.191.20:/opt/ltsp/i386";
<spacey>         if substring (option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9) = "PXEClient"
<spacey>         {
<spacey>                 filename        "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";
<spacey>         }
<spacey> hench the 10.101.191.20 is the terminal server
<spacey> the dhcpd is onanother machine. But the dhcp part seems to go well. On the thin client i can see its got the mount info, and apparantly the pxe/tftp part already worked. since initramfs got loaded
<ogra> whats set as rootserver ? 
<ogra> it should be on console 1
<spacey> 10.101.191.20
<spacey> adn the root path is 10.101.191.20:/opt/ltsp/i386
<spacey> like in the config
<ogra> hmm, and the nfs server is running as well ? 
<spacey> yup, i'll test if i can mount the export on another machine
<spacey> hold on
<spacey> yup mounting 10.101.191.20:/opt/ltsp works
<ogra> weird ...
<ogra> i had no probs in my install tests here yesterday 
<spacey> its still breezy btw
<ogra> oh
<spacey> dapper is next step
<spacey> :P
<ogra> how does your exports look like ? 
<ogra> /opt/ltsp       *(ro,no_root_squash,async)
<spacey> yup
<spacey> like that
<spacey> ltsp-server added that
<ogra> yup
<ogra> try to omit rhe ip from the root-path setting ...
<spacey> lets try
<spacey> hah
<ogra> works ? 
<spacey> it actually works. Particular. I copied that part from a working LTSP setup
<ogra> funny ...
<spacey> well at least i get X now
<ogra> it shouldnt have any effect
<ogra> usually
<spacey> ok next step is find out why that login thingy doesn't pop up. ldm was it right?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> you get X but no ldm ? 
<spacey> yup
<ogra> strange 
<ogra> thats still breezy ? 
<ogra> even the chroot ? 
<spacey> yup
<ogra> set a rootpw in the chroot and try to run /ect/init.d/ltsp-client start manually ...
<ogra> and have a look at /var/log/ldm.log
<spacey> i thought openssh-server was install in the chroot?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> there is no access possible from the outside
<spacey> ah that it was there for some of your fancy toolies
<ogra> i only install it to easily scp files between systems
<ogra> its not in the default install... and shouldnt be ...
<spacey> ctrl alt f1 doesn't respond
<spacey> funny
<littlepaul> is this right that the livecd does not contain ltsp?
<mhz> ogra: what's the best app. included in edubuntu to get edubuntu liveCd and dapperTest CD ?
<mhz> wget?
<mhz> (oh, yes, command line would be better appeciated)
<ogra> littlepaul, yes, it would be sily to include it there
<ogra> *silly
<littlepaul> hm
<ogra> mhz, for an initial download wget... else rsync
<ogra> littlepaul, it would be nearly unusable
<juliux> ogra, so the live cd will only show a client?
<ogra> nope, a workstation :P
<mhz> hehehe
<juliux> yes the behaviour of a client
<juliux> ogra, korinten......
<ogra> :P
<ogra> ;)
<juliux> sorry for the rest but i don't know how to translate it into english
<ogra> peanuts ;)
<mhz> LOL, oh sure, korinten!
<spacey> ogra: can't look in the logs, X starts and then locks itself. but no fear. I'll install openssh server :P
<spacey> i'll get myself in
<ogra> heh
<spacey> maybe it dislikes my acer laptop
<spacey> at least i do
<ogra> understadable :)
<spacey> no ldm log
<spacey> but there is an Xorg one
<spacey> nothing special though
<ogra> what happens if you kill X (and possible instances of ldm or gtk) and run the above command ?
<spacey> I could kill it with ssh
<ogra> yup
<spacey> ldm is not running
<ogra> and then /etc/init.d/ltsp-client start
<spacey> doesn't get started i guess
<spacey> XDM: too many retransmissions, declaring session dead
<spacey> thats particular
<spacey> at least looks
<spacey> ogra: where is ldm suppose to get called?
<spacey> ah well its probably my laptop, i can try dapper chroot or fix up that crappy duron pc here... and give it another try
<ogra> ldm is called from /etc/init.d/ltsp-client
<ogra> xdm is broken in breezy 
<spacey> who wants xdm anyway
<ogra> and it shouldnt be install in the chroot at all
<spacey> it isn't
<spacey> think its possible because its a laptop? i heard that happend more often. but can't think of a valid reason. especially because X already started.
<spacey> well its obvious X crashed
<ogra> i run fine here with my acer 
<spacey> only mouse pointer works, nothing else responds :o)
<ogra> whats nothing else ? 
<spacey> any keyboard input
<spacey> like ctrl alt f1, ctl alt backspace, ctrl alt del
<ogra> did you tweak something in your lts.conf ? 
<spacey> hehe
<spacey> don't kill me
<spacey> i ran some ltsp toolies which generated some files
<ogra> argh
<ogra> then you broke it ...
<ogra> if you use anything from the ltsp-utils package, you can be sure its broken now
<Yagisan> and get to keep both pieces ;)
<littlepaul> ogra just one word "FAQ" ;)
<ogra> worst case iu saw was that it tweaked stuff through /proc and broke the server completely
<spacey> nasty
<ogra> which results usually in a reinstall ...
<spacey> well i'm not that insane.:P
<ogra> littlepaul, nah, fixing the bug that these packages exist in main ;)
<littlepaul> i know but as you allready said these packages will remain there because of 4.1
<ogra> but in universe ....
<ogra> which is not enabled by default ...
<littlepaul> k
<ogra> i dont care if the user breaks his system by heavy tweaking ... that his own fault ... the prob with breezy is that the tools are in main
<spacey> yeah well, i started off with installing some ltsp- packages.
<spacey> :p
<ogra> thats fixed in dapper already
<spacey> maybe rename it to utsp :P
<littlepaul> the dependency bug is fixed?
<spacey> or ltsp- to ltsp-thebadone
<spacey> :>
<ogra> littlepaul, yes, since the first dapper upload
<littlepaul> sounds good
<pc22> hi Yagisan 
<Yagisan> G'day pc22
<Yagisan> ogra: sadly I can't test your new livecd, I reached my 20GB monthly limit, and have now been throttled to 64k until 2006
<littlepaul> :)
<mhz> Yagisan: you have a limit?
<juliux> Yagisan, not good
<juliux> mhz, i also have a limit, on 7 days 3gb
<mhz> juliux: any photos of the event you and ogra participated?
<juliux> mhz, mom
<mhz> juliux: hmm, never knew about about limits set by ISP... NOT fair
<spacey> ogra: ok it works, my laptop is faster as thinclient then local install. :P sorry for the lame mistake
<Yagisan> mhz: Yep, allmost all internet plans in Aus are limited
<mhz> bummer
<Yagisan> mhz: It gets worse, they are artifically speed limited by telstra too :(
<mhz> gee!
<mhz> i wonder how thwy would feel if we set 'quotes' to them
<mhz> AFAIk, we have no limits but our speeds are slow and expensive yet
<Yagisan> mhz: max is 1500k down and 256k up, except at a few exchanges where non-telstra owned dslams have been installed
<Yagisan> mhz: telstra wouldn't care - they own almost every cable to every home on the continent
<mhz> oh
<mhz> monopoly?
<ogra> mhz, \sh_away has some pics on his blog, look at planet
<ogra> spacey, it were youre nerves, not mine that had to suffer ;)
<ogra> powerpc live is broken here :(
<Yagisan> mhz: almost complete.
<Yagisan> mhz: there is actually a duopoly here, with telstra and optus
<ogra> if anyone could confir that, that would be nice, so i can put it in the flight 2 release notes
<juliux> mhz, http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/v/elt2005/   http://www.dakjos.de/gallery/Linuxtag-Essen-2005
* mhz opening tabs
<juliux> mhz, http://gallery.linuxtage-essen.de/main.php
<ogra> gah, they have a pic of me at the gentoo booth ....
* ogra hides
<juliux> hehe
<juliux> already week end?
<mhz> ogra: gentoo rocks!
<mhz> no need to hide
<juliux> mhz, lol
<ogra> juliux, public holiday in sa
<juliux> mhz, i have used gentoo until i get a broken linker
<ogra> mhz, i'm no gentoo fan at all ...
<mhz> ohhh
<mhz> I liked gentoo very much (once installed) :)
* Yagisan likes to pinch gentoo patches, but that's about it
<juliux> gentoo users have to much money for electricity
<mhz> I also like Gentoo docs
<mhz> juliux: hehehe
<mhz> Lord_Athur: hi
<Lord_Athur> hi
* Yagisan thinks gentoo is a) slow to install, b) a pain to clone, c) a pain to ship to another box for repairs
* mhz thinks a) yup  b) yup  c) yup
* juliux is reading modern os
<Lord_Athur> good bye everyone
<agente87> hello
<agente87> i need help
<agente87> how can i start moodle in a edubuntu installation?
<ogra> you just install it, it gets started automatically
<ogra> hmm, short visit
<Yagisan> all of 40 seconds - some people have no patience
<ogra> heh
<jsgotangco> hey all
<ogra> hey jsgotangco 
<Yagisan> G'day jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> ogra, have you seen the work in progress of elkner and kjcole on cookbook?
<ogra> nope, not yet
<jsgotangco> argghhh
<mhz> jsgotangco: ?
<ogra> argghhh ???
<jsgotangco> mhz, we're already on flight 2, more or less we already have working feature sets, we're doing good progress in ubuntu docs i'm getting free time by next week and going to dig back at the doc
<mhz> oooh
<ogra> so ping one of them...
<mhz> ok
<jsgotangco> ogra, i will
<ogra> they have a bzr archive with their work afaik
<jsgotangco> it doesn't contain much
* mhz is truly sorry he's such a non-productive monkey on xml or html syntax
<jsgotangco> mhz, we're not going to do moin :P hehehe
* mhz can work very well on Moin, Abiword and OOO
<mhz> jsgotangco: hehe, honestly i wasnt thinking on that
<jsgotangco> give me your OOo in ODP format and i'll take care of the rest
<mhz> really?????????????
<mhz> jsgotangco: why didnt you say that B4?
<jsgotangco> OOo 2 is much better in the docbook export
<ogra> jsgotangco, no no , we decided to do it in plain handwritten postscript now :P
<jsgotangco> gahhh
<mhz> jsgotangco: any specific template you need me to use?
<ogra> ;)
<jsgotangco> mhz, nope
<jsgotangco> a clean doc will do
<mhz> ogra: mean!
<mhz> :)
<ogra> *g*
<mhz> cool!
* mhz is happy back to doc ideas!!
<jsgotangco> heya zakame 
<mhz> zakame: hip
<zakame> hi jsgotangco :D
<zakame> and mhz :)
<mhz> jsgotangco: are you sure ODP will do fine for your purposes? (need to double check)
<jsgotangco> mhz, yes
<zakame> ODP? 
<mhz> jsgotangco: if so, then i'll have to learn BZR roght now or that can wait?
* jsgotangco can conjure voodoo xml
<jsgotangco> mhz, no bzr needed for now
<mhz> zakame: OpenDocuement P...
<zakame> ooh
<jsgotangco> zakame, we don't need no stinkin' LaTeX nor Emacs!
<zakame> jsgotangco: buwahaha
<jsgotangco> :P
* mhz would love to learn emacs before XML :)
<jsgotangco> mhz, traitor :P
<mhz> hehehe
<ogra> bzr is cool for maintaining your local changes though ...
<mhz> jsgotangco: hmmm, so ok. How do i get to read the already WIP ?
<mhz> indeed
<ogra> you can easily roll back or recover stuff ...
<mhz> ogra: it's just that I have trouble figuring out how to give time to so many stuff I want to do and already feel commited that even the slightest "new thing to learn" is complex to me
<mhz> jsgotangco: BTW, the aLEXsANCHEsSECO wiki page is being used a spanish personal blog
<jsgotangco> whoa
<jsgotangco> really
<mhz> yup
<jsgotangco> should we give him the smackdown?
<mhz> fortunatelly, no attachements yet
* mhz play Pilatos this time
* mhz tends to be 'pationate' to give smackdowns
<mhz> jsgotangco: so, if all current work is XML, any ideas/suggestions regarding how to read it in 'human like' so I can see what to edit or add?
<jsgotangco> hmm do a make on the doc in svn
* mhz reading about bzr
<ogra> you actually need only to know about  or 7 commands
<zakame> yeah bzr's quite easy :)
<ogra> and bzrk is unbeaten http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/software/bzrk.png
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/software/bzrk-diff.png
<mhz> ogra: JaneW_we: any budget for openpuppets.org ?
<jsgotangco> openpuppets?
<mhz> ogra: jsgotangco: http://www.openpuppets.com/
<ogra> whats that ?
<mhz> lovely initiative
<mhz> :D
* mhz wanna order edubuntu puppets
<jsgotangco> huh?
<jsgotangco> hope this isn't a sock puppet
<mhz> not at all
<mhz> they are really COOL
<jsgotangco> dunno about the budet really
* jsgotangco already sees a big expense looming on Q1 2006
<mhz> hmm
<jsgotangco> =)
<mhz> neurogeek: hi there
<mhz> ogra: jsgotangco: juliux: http://www.openpuppets.com/en/amigos/ubu.html
<mhz> ogra: so you met ThomasWaldemann in umeet. Good IRC talk you gave, IMHO
<mhz> and thanks for mentioning my effort for LA people
<claude> hi just a question
<claude> on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuCDPrintingPlans, there is a project of sending 10000 6.04 edubuntu CDs
<mhz> yes
<mhz> iirc
<claude> on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuShippingPlans, there is only 8000 5.10 CDs ??
<mhz> yes
<mhz> and they were never shipped
<mhz> we are crossing fingers (at least me) to have those 6.04 in the budget
<claude> these 2 pages should be synchronized
<mhz> good point
* mhz checking the first
<lucasvo> http://www.netsupportschool.com/standard_features.htm <this tool looks good, I will update the wikipage: TeacherTool
<jsgotangco> good night
<jsgotangco> yawn
<ogra> lucasvo, nice tool, but win only ...
<ogra> mhz, yes, i met him, nie guy... and thanks, was fun to hold the talk
<ogra> *nice
<mhz> ogra: there's MoinMoin Desktop edition
<mhz> any chances we can include it?
<mhz> and what should i do if accepted?
<ogra> if it gets packaged ...
<ogra> give me a link
<mhz> MMDE = works out of the box (tar.zg)
<mhz> okis
<mhz> w8
<mhz> and it is meant for /home
<mhz> I once tried to make it sync easily with standard server edition
<mhz> and rsynced did the job but it was not ideal
<ogra> is it something like tiddlywiki ? 
<mhz> hehehehe, no idea
<mhz> it is Moin for /home
<ogra> tiddlywiki is cool for local stuff
<ogra> yeah, sounds similar
<mhz> (M$, PPC, and *NIX versions)
<mhz> and it runs with no need of apache
<mhz> :8000 IIRC
<vincenzio> hi
<mhz> hi
<ogra> look at this http://www.tiddlywiki.com/
* mhz opening tab #110000.......6
<mhz> :D
<lucasvo> ogra: exactly...
<mhz> ogra: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/DesktopEdition
<ogra> but some good ideas we could adopt as plugins for s-c-p
<lucasvo> ogra: that's why I add it to the wiki. so people can see what one could add to scp
<lucasvo> ogra: I was too slow :D
<ogra> heh
<ogra> mhz, how safe is it ? 
<mhz> 'safe' ?
<ogra> looks like it opens  port 
<mhz> I can ask xorAxAx (ThomasWaldemann's right hand) or maybe you could talk to him (german as well) as he is the Mr. MMDE 
<mhz> :)
<ogra> its just, if it runs in your home and there is a security hole its far more dangerous than running in a protected area of the filesystem where you cant access userdata
<mhz> installing MMDE would gimme the chance to give better Moin-School
<mhz> yup
<ogra> and itstricky to package such stuff
<ogra> one reason why i never packaged this http://www.grawert.net/software/evonotify/index.html
<mhz> ok, so I'll ask xorAxAx (email) and get back to you once i get answer
<lucasvo> is anybody working on s-c-p atm?
<ogra> there is a gentoo guy who sent me some stuff, havent looked really deep into it, since he ports it to classic ltsp
<ogra> any contribution is welcome :)
<claude> what is s-c-p ?
<ogra> lucasvo, feel free to grab it from here with bzr http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/
<lucasvo> ogra: whhow can I contribute?
<lucasvo> I don't know bzr, is it similar to svn?
<ogra> claude, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/student-control-panel_shot.png
<ogra> lucasvo, easier 
<lucasvo> ogra: is there something like trac?
<ogra> trac ? 
<claude> ogra: thanks
<lucasvo> ogra: trac.edgewall.com
<claude> do you know controlaula ?
<lucasvo> or ronja-svn.wservices.ch
<ogra> yes
<ogra> lucasvo, ah, yes, i know trac
<ogra> but we use bzr everywhere in ubuntu ... 
<ogra> it will get integrated very deep into launchpad soon
<ogra> claude, i'm no fan of controlaula
<claude> why?
<ogra> and we couldnt even support it, since its written in gambas
<ogra> i dont like the ui 
<ogra> i wouldnt give it to any teacher
<claude> is s-c-p functionnality somewhere similar ?
<ogra> the target of our TeachersPet spec is to have a tool that is very easy to use and that everyone with basic python knowledge can easily expand through a plugin
<ogra> s-c-p shall become the core component for TeachersPet one day ...
<ogra> the target is to design it "right" first and then enhance it
<ogra> it should be a tool a arts or biology teacher can easily use without the need to read a handbook ...
<claude> ok
<ogra> but it should become very powerful in the end through plugins ...
<lucasvo> ogra: is there any otpion to select wm on ldm login?
<ogra> lucasvo, nope, not yet
<ogra> its prepared to add sessions to ldm ... 
<ogra> and the backend code supports already that you executecustomized commands on the server ..
<ogra> instead of the default Xsession
<lucasvo> ogra: hm, will it work for dapper?
<ogra> the session stuff ? its not in my focus currently ... so i cant make promises as long as no other contributors step up
<lucasvo> ogra: how can I pull your bzr archiv??
<ogra> bzr get 
<ogra> install bzr and just run: bzr get http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/
<ogra> to get recent changes you then only run "bzr pull" in the source directory without any url 
<lucasvo> ok
<ogra> if you made changes you run bzr commit -m'description what you changed', copy the dir to a webserver and notify me ... i can simply run bzr merge and your changes get merged
<lucasvo> (student-control-panel:30765): libglade-WARNING **: could not find glade file '/usr/share/student-control-panel/student-control-panel.glade'
<ogra> yes, its already packaged, so it looks for the files in the install dir ...
<lucasvo> ah ook
<ogra> change it in the code ...
<lucasvo> I changed it
<ogra> there might be other occurences of the path ...
<ogra> it should have a try: and except: construct to fall back to a local glade file
<lucasvo> oh no
<lucasvo> ogra: I will try to add it
<lucasvo> ogra: hm, so how do you do it?
<ogra> have a look at the theme engine stuff here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/fixes/client/greeters/gtk
<lucasvo> ogra: do you have it installed in /usr/share
<ogra> the package installs it there, yes
<ogra> (there is a package in dapper)
<claude> ogra: is s-c-p limited to ltsp ?
<ogra> yes
<claude> what about a class with workstations ?
<ogra> thats its only target
<lucasvo> I think, one should define a variabl th path defined where the package is
<lucasvo> ogra: I can't find the package
<ogra> claude, thats something for a plugin 
<ogra> claude, but very very hard to do in a afe and correct way ...
<claude> yes, but very very useful :-)
<ogra> and we dont target mass workstation setups yet
<mhz_cook> ogra: xorAxAx is in #moin, could you ask your doubts there?
<ogra> that will come in dapper+1 or +2
<mhz_cook> please
<lucasvo> ogra: what's the name of the package?
<ogra> lucasvo, guess :)
<lucasvo> ogra: E: Couldn't find package teacher-control-panel
<lucasvo> ah it is students
<ogra> hehe, you want the students to control their teacher ? 
<lucasvo> it is a controlpanel for teachers
<ogra> would be fun to give them something to defend their login ....
<ogra> classroom wars !!
<lucasvo> let's do a dos to the teachers client!
<lucasvo> DoS
<ogra> heh
<lucasvo> I don't like the logo :D
<ogra> make a better one :P
<lucasvo> ogra: yes I will
<ogra> :)
<ogra> mhz_cook, that still wouldnt solve the packaging problem ...
<mhz_cook> ogra: sure, but that i can help
<ogra> redesign ubuntu ? 
<mhz_cook> but the most important issue here is security ,afaik
<ogra> its a design proble,
<mhz_cook> hehehe, why a design problem?
<ogra> a .deb installs systemwide, you cant install in homedirs ...
<mhz_cook> hmmm
<ogra> indeed one could make a package that puts tar.gz in /usr/doc or something ... 
<mhz_cook> would that help, then?
<ogra> but then you can even use the tgz directly
<ogra> so i currently see no point in packaging it 
<mhz_cook> hmm
<mhz_cook> good point
<mhz_cook> ok, then i forget about it
<lucasvo> one could write a script which installs it into active dir...
<ogra> try it...
<ogra> :)
<lucasvo> and install source with script
<lucasvo> I could do better
<lucasvo> things
<lucasvo> where can I find edubuntulog?
<lucasvo> *logo
<ogra> on the wiki 
<lucasvo> waa
<lucasvo> gimp is so different from photoshop :(
<lucasvo> how can I scale an object and keep proportions?
<ogra> i always think the opposite *g*
<ogra> put it on a layer and scale it ...
<lucasvo> yes I can do that but I still can't lock the proportions
<lucasvo> when I press scale
<lucasvo> I hate the multiwindo system
<ogra> the scale layer dialog has that on by default
<lucasvo> no
<lucasvo> it I can't find itah
<lucasvo> I have horrible lag
<lucasvo> but now I found it, it is in the layer window
<khermans> My xerver on the clients is running at 800x600, but I want 1024x768
<khermans> the Xorg.conf has 1024x768 specified
<ogra> khermans, the xorg.conf is regenaerated on boot ...
<khermans> but it shows 1024 ?
<khermans> why is it not using that6 res?
<ogra> you need to specify the right horiz sync and vert refresh values in the lts.conf file
<khermans> i have generic monitor stored
<ogra> because your monitor doest report the right values, our xserver only uses the ones it gets reported by the monitor probing on boot ...
<ogra> so you need to override this ...
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLtsConfParams
<ogra> that needs to go into the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf file    
<lucasvo> my ltsp isn't working anymore :(
<khermans> heheh
<ogra> lucasvo, whats not working ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: the next-server thingie I think
<ogra> did you try to add it to the config ? 
<lucasvo> yes
<ogra> with the right IP ?
<ogra> and didnt forget the semicolon ? 
<lucasvo> no
<ogra> then i dont see how it should be the error
<lucasvo>         next-server 192.168.1.1;
<lucasvo>         filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";
<ogra> thats fine
<ogra> so where does the booting stop ? 
<lucasvo> No IP address
<ogra> you r client doesnt get one ? 
<lucasvo> this is what it says
<ogra> thats not related
<ogra> is your dhcpd running ? 
<lucasvo> how can I find out/
<lucasvo> yes it is
<lucasvo> I even tried
<ogra> next-server would be an issue if it boots half way and reports rootserver=0.0.0.0 just before it drops you to a shell
<ogra> and your prob sounds like it happens before booting at all
<ogra> which rather indicates that dhcpd isnt running or other parts of the config are wrong
<lucasvo> http://wservices.ch/~lucas/ablage/Screenshot.png
<lucasvo> ogra: I get dhcp if I boot with livecd on client
<ogra> that shot looks a bit empty ...
<lucasvo> ogra: why should it be stuffed full?
<ogra> because else we could omit it completely ...
<lucasvo> I think one can omit it
<ogra> yes, but i'd find it boring ...
<lucasvo> why, there will be soon more buttons, which take up space
<lucasvo> for e.g. Blank...
<ogra> its a nice place to add a buttonbar later
<ogra> blank ??
<lucasvo> Blank (screen)
<lucasvo> Blank (screens)
<ogra> which screen ? 
<lucasvo> pupils screen
<ogra> hmmm
<lucasvo> my stupid dhcp server :(
<ogra> post your /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf to pastebin
<lucasvo> /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf should be in /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf
<ogra> nope
<ogra> dont ever touch that file
<lucasvo> which one?
<ogra> the latter 
<lucasvo> why?
<lucasvo> it is standard dhcp file
<ogra> because its not used
<lucasvo> and I want to use it
<lucasvo> crap!
<lucasvo> so you mean, I couldn't use webmin?
<ogra> thats not how ubunti ltsp works
<ogra> webmin? *shudder*
<lucasvo> you are making things more difficult than they already are
<lucasvo>  I couldn't ... :D
<lucasvo> but there are other quite good interfaces for administration 
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup
<lucasvo> why can't you move to file to it's standard location?
<ogra> because that would break the dhcpd package
<lucasvo> why?
<lucasvo> I don't want to use edubuntu integrated dhcp server
<ogra> you would break it for other users that dont use ltsp
<lucasvo> ...
<lucasvo> what would break?
<ogra> thats fine, uninstall ltsp-server-stadalone and you are fine 
<ogra> if yu want to use an external dhcpd, ltsp-server is all you want
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/465474
<ogra> but then i cant hel you much ...
<ogra> so you are giving a dynamic ip to your own server ? 
<lucasvo> no 
<ogra> yes
<ogra> you do with this file ...
<ogra> your server is 192.168.1.1
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> it is
<ogra> your range starts at 192.168.1.0
<ogra> so youre giving      awaythis ip to clients
<lucasvo> eth2      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:08:A1:6F:30:8F
<lucasvo>           inet addr:192.168.1.1  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
<ogra> which results in the same ip twice in the net ....
<ogra> make it: range 192.168.1.10 192.168.1.255;
<lucasvo> hm, I never had this problem
<lucasvo> with old ltsp
<ogra> thats not a ltsp problem, but a misconfigured dhcp ...
<ogra> it doesnt mean it *must* happen
<lucasvo> hm, mount: Mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev failed: No such file or directory
<ogra> whats above ? 
<lucasvo> rootserver:192.168.1.1 rootpath: /opt/ltsp/i386
<lucasvo> mount: I/O error 
<lucasvo> short read: 0 < 28
<ogra> inetd is running on the server ? 
<ogra> and nfs ?
<ogra> yes, inetd is apparently running, you got the initrd ...
<lucasvo>  * Starting internet superserver...                                                                                                                   [fail] 
<ogra> oh
<ogra> how did it get the kernel then ? 
<lucasvo> ah
<lucasvo> I did start 
<lucasvo> after restart it works
<spacey_ki> inetd is only used for tftpd by default i think
<ogra> ah
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but tftpd gives you kernel and initrd.img
<lucasvo> works all fine
<ogra> if he is at this stage, he has both already
<spacey_ki> <lucasvo> hm, mount: Mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev failed: No such file or directory
<spacey_ki> same error i had :P
<lucasvo> it has also problem wiht /proc
<lucasvo> spacey_ki: on dapper?
<spacey_ki> nope
<ogra> lucasvo, no wonder, since you rebuilt your chroot several times :)
<spacey_ki> i'll try dapper tomorrow
<lucasvo> so what should I do ?
<lucasvo> :D
<ogra> does it work ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: what?
<lucasvo> it doesn't wofk
<ogra> your client ? you said above it wors all fine 
<ogra> <lucasvo> works all fine
<lucasvo> I mean tftp, nfs, portmap ...
<lucasvo> but not the client
<lucasvo>  /proc/sys and /proc
<ogra> the nfsmounting fails somehow ...
<lucasvo> short read: 0 < 28
<lucasvo> what's this?
<ogra> a meesage from one of the initramfs scripts 
<ogra> grep for it if you like 
<ogra> do you have a line for proc in /mnt/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/fstab
<ogra> ?
<ogra> (there should be only one )
<lucasvo> proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
<ogra> fine
<lucasvo> DD(only one)
<ogra> thats how it should be ...
<ogra> can you mount the nfs dir from another machine ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: how?
<ogra> mount
<lucasvo> can I mount it from the server or via livecd?
<lucasvo> how can I mount nfs?
<ogra> livecd from the client machine should work
<lucasvo> ogra: exact command?
<ogra> sudo mount 192.168.1.1:/opt/ltsp/i386 /mnt
<lucasvo> I'll give it a try
<lucasvo> ogra: how long does it take to mount?
<ogra> some seconds max ...
<ogra> it will give you a timeout message if it breaks
<lucasvo> hm, ok
<lucasvo> I am still waiting
<ogra> looks like your nfs isnt working then 
<ogra> as i said in the beginning ;)
<lucasvo> hah
<lucasvo> now it is working I think
<lucasvo> yup
<lucasvo> ls /mount gives me bin, boot, dev, home, initrd, media, opt, mnt, proc, root, sbin, srv, tmp, usr, var
<lucasvo> I mean /mnt
<ogra> hmm, there is still something wrong with your nfs server if it takes this long 
<lucasvo> what? :DE
<mhz_cook> lucasvo: keep pressing either ctrl or shift (i dont remember)
<da5id_> hi edubuntu people
<Burgwork> salut
<da5id_> I was wondering if there are any edubuntu people in germany?
<ogra> da5id_, up
<ogra> err, yup
<da5id_> hi ogra
<da5id_> apart from you of course :-)
<da5id_> did you get my email?
<ogra> i met some at th eessener linuxtage
<da5id_> yes
<ogra> oh, yes ...
<da5id_> I was wondering if you and other people engaged with edubuntu would like to meet the skolelinux.de people?
<da5id_> everybody is welcome
<ogra> i can make it rather at the end of feb ...
<ogra> so probably 25/6 might work
<da5id_> that is fine
<ogra> but no promises yet
<da5id_> march would be possible too
<da5id_> what ever suits you and your schedule best
<ogra> arch will be high time for me, we have our relese at the beginning of april
<ogra> *march
<da5id_> we also have a new years party :-)
<da5id_> hi h3p
<da5id_> :-)
<da5id_> would you like to give us a presentation on edubuntu?
<h3p> hi dave
<ogra> sure, why not ? 
<da5id_> I also plan to invite Carsten Neuhaus (developer of Kalzium) and Christian Kuelker (developer of CipUx) will be there
<ogra> great :)
<da5id_> so I hope it will be an interesting meeting with lots of input for software to package
<da5id_> ogra: can you email me as soon as possible about which weekend would be ok for you?
<ogra> yup, will do ...
<da5id_> ogra: I try to plan everything else around that
<da5id_> :-)
<ogra> i'm just poking several other ubuntu guys, if someone is intrested first
<da5id_> also everybody else from ubuntu and edubuntu or just interested in free software is welcome
<da5id_> ogra: thanks! I apreciate.
<ogra> me too :)
<lucasvo> mhz: what do you mean?
<mhz> ?
<mhz> the keys? oh, for gimp
<lucasvo> mhz: aha, I tried it, it didn't work, you have to set it in the layers window I think
<lucasvo> ogra: how can I test my nfs?
<lucasvo> ah now it worked!
<lucasvo> cool
<lucasvo> /etc/rcS.d/S32ltsp-client-setup: line 137: X_MODE: command not found
<mhz> ogra: sorry for that flood
<lucasvo>  * Starting kernel log daemon... start-stop-daemon: nothing in /proc - not mounted? (Success)
<lucasvo>                                                                                                                                                       [fail] 
<lucasvo> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 && apt-get distupgrade ^^^
<Burgwork> ogra, should I move TeachersPet to StudentControlPanel ?
<Burgwork> mhz, I have some spanish text for you to translate
<mhz> ?
<Burgwork> mhz, was speaking with somebody yesterday and they were spanish
<mhz> oh
<mhz> and what is you need to translate (or want to translate)?
<Burgwork> can I fire you there email?
<mhz> sure
<Burgwork> mhz@ubuntu.com?
<mhz> I commit to read it first b4 I can tell you I can translate it
<mhz> Burgwork: now that you mention it... I guess I have one but I have not been told about it
<mhz> Burgwork: mhz AT tecnocimiento DOT cl should work too
<lucasvo> Burgwork: you mean the argente87? could you cc it to me?
<lucasvo> Burgwork: lucasvo____@____gmx____.ch
<Burgwork> lucasvo, yes I will
<lucasvo> Burgwork: thanks
<Burgwork> sent
<lucasvo> got it
<lucasvo>  * No existe un control o una evaluacin de los alumnos < this is interesting
<lucasvo> is it correct translated?: there isn't any way how to control or evaluate(survey) the students?
<mhz> ah,,,, you want a version!
<Burgwork> we were talking about student control panel
<mhz> translation = foreign lang. into mother tongue
<Burgwork> and how he uses a similar aplpication
<mhz> version = mother tongue into foreign lang
<Burgwork> yes
<lucasvo> mhz: is this correct I wrote? ^^^^
<mhz> yup
<mhz> you can always edit a little bit
<mhz> but it is good
<lucasvo> because I found a program who does exactly that
<lucasvo> but on winxp
<lucasvo> http://www.netsupportschool.com/testing.htm
<lucasvo> let's add it to the wiki...
<Burgwork> that is somewhat outside  the scope of student control panel
<Burgwork> what student control panel needs to the generic ability to start any app
<mhz> lucasvo: the problem is that in no context, it is good but I bet my chilean butt that in a context, that text will lead to a diff meaning
<Burgwork> maybe even locking the other applications
<lucasvo> yes it is, but it should be added there, maybe I will write that down^
<mhz> lucasvo: Burgwork: because '' no existe control...'' is meaning we have no element to use in order to control ....
<Burgwork> how about this idea: "Ability to darken screen and display only one application, which the students cannot exit out of"
<lucasvo> Burgwork: yes
<Burgwork> that allows the teacher to show a test module and force the students to take it
<lucasvo> and this app could be firefox with moodle inside :D
<Burgwork> sure
<Burgwork> lucasvo, you adding that netsupport school app to the wiki?
<Burgwork> now we just need more users of these apps to tell us what they like/dislike about them
<lucasvo> Burgwork: yes, as a list of templates for this software
<lucasvo> references
<lucasvo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeachersPet
<Burgwork> can you add this one too?
<Burgwork> http://www.crossteccorp.com/netopschool/
<Burgwork> and http://www.kvm-switches-online.com/minicom-aristoclass.html
<lucasvo> is anybody able to code in python?
<Burgwork> why?
<Burgwork> there are a number of hardware solutions for this problem as well
<lucasvo> for python?
<Burgwork> no, the problem of control students computesr
<Burgwork> scp is written in pygtk because we are all a little python mad around here
<Burgwork> good little look at netop
<Burgwork> http://www.loughborough.ac.uk/computing/labs/netop.html
<lucasvo> Burgwork: you can add it as well :D
<lucasvo> I added only the link 
<Burgwork> lucasvo, just the link is fine
<mhz> lucasvo: can you use that app. you mentioned to version this, please:  Este punto sera el que ms trabajara. La posibilidad de realizar
<mhz> evaluaciones y recogida de datos de manera instantnea, algo parecido
<mhz> a los mdulos de moodle.
* mhz wants to compare
<lucasvo> mhz: I only speak italiano and french
<mhz> yup
<mhz> no problem
<mhz> but it would be cool (for translating knowledge) to compare that paragraph 
<mhz> using the tool you mentioned
<lucasvo> if there are enough similiarities I understand it but this is too difficult
<lucasvo> using the tool?
<mhz> oh, lucasvo you were not using a tool? or app?
<lucasvo> ehm no, only my head
<lucasvo> ehm, I am learning italian and french, I know a little latin so it is not that difficult
<mhz> ohhh, wow! excellent head!!!
* mhz read "lucasvo: because I found a program who does exactly that"
<lucasvo> mhz: ah, I meant the surveys he wan'ts
<lucasvo> want's
<mhz> lucasvo: impressive
<mhz> very good
<lucasvo> I am still in my teenages, learning all day and night...
<lucasvo> mhz: http://www.netsupportschool.com/testing.htm
<mhz> lucasvo: Burgwork: I am sure in a Spanish distro I heard they have something like that 'classroom-control'
* mhz doesnt remember the distro :(
<Burgwork> mhz, k12ltsp has something that is crap
<mhz> hmm, proably right. Only next week I'll be able to have a client to test a lab environment
<mhz> so before that, all is theory to me
<lucasvo> I need to learn python
<Burgwork> lucasvo, not that hart
<lucasvo> so that I can push development of s-c-p a littlebit forward 
<Burgwork> hard, even
<mhz> lucasvo: do you manage a lang. already?
<lucasvo> Burgwork: hm, I think I will read the python code of s-c-p
<lucasvo> mhz: only php
<mhz> lucasvo: so python will be a piece of cake to you
<Burgwork> lucasvo, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/
<lucasvo> the problem is I will also have to learn gtk and glade
<lucasvo> Burgwork: I already have local checkout
<mhz> read a small book called "How to think like a computer scientist, from Python"
<lucasvo> mhz: ebook?
<Burgwork> dive into python is already shipped on your machine, provided you have ubuntu
<mhz> hmmm, pdf good? lucasvo ?
<mhz> Burgwork: does this make sense to you?: "Shared browsing"
<lucasvo> mhz: yes
<lucasvo> mhz: I know what you mean with shared browsing
<lucasvo> mhz: I already wrote something about that in the wiki
<mhz> but what exactly that means?
<lucasvo> mhz: see -> TeachersPet
<mhz> what kind of browsing?
<mhz> I am :)
<lucasvo> Guided webbrowsing: allows the teacher to guide pupils to a webpage on their pc.
<mhz> duh!
<lucasvo> another program has the same feauture
<mhz> then it is Shared Webpages browsing
<mhz> otherwise, i could also say Shared System Brwosing
<lucasvo> I translated it wit guided webbrowsing
<lucasvo> Burgwork: is vnc working for you?
<lucasvo> Burgwork: I mean in s-c-p
<mhz> yup, that makes sense too
<Burgwork> lucasvo, haven't tried it
<Burgwork> scp I mean
<lucasvo> Burgwork: could you try?
<lucasvo> Traceback (most recent call last):
<lucasvo>   File "student-control-panel", line 48, in <lambda>
<lucasvo>     self.vnc.connect("clicked", lambda w: self.vnc_conn(treeselection))
<lucasvo>   File "student-control-panel", line 240, in vnc_conn
<lucasvo>     pid = vnc.pid
<lucasvo> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'pid'
<lucasvo> I get this output... but I don't understand the sourcecode
<Burgwork> lucasvo, currently at work where i have no access to an edubuntu install
<lucasvo> Burgwork: where are you from?
<mhz> Burgwork: can a software have 'ability' to do something
<Burgwork> mhz, probably would call it a feature
<mhz> me too
<Burgwork> lucasvo, Victoria, BC, Canada
<mhz> any sinonym?
<Burgwork> I work for these people --> www.userful.com
<Burgwork> mhz, ability == feature
<mhz> hehehe, ok
<mhz> lucasvo: any email address i can send my version to ?
<lucasvo> mhz: lucasv__@__gmx__.ch
<lucasvo> oh wrong
<lucasvo> mhz: lucasvo__@__gmx__.ch
<mhz> okis
<lucasvo> thx
<mhz> lucasvo: Burgwork: mail is happily traveling to your inbox
* lucasvo should set up his exim again
<lucasvo> since I moved to ubuntu from debian, I didn't configure my cool exim with direct filtering on IMAP 
<mhz> lucasvo: me is still ignorant on that too. Exim or postfix have not been set on this laptop
<lucasvo> is it a sin to use server as a workstation?
<mhz> Burgwork: userful.com looks good. On which env. do that work?
* lucasvo will buy a new server for ltsp, what should I buy?
<lucasvo> opteron?>
<mhz> sin? hmmm, it depends on what the workstation does
<lucasvo> it is just insecure I think
<mhz> Burgwork: nevermind, I already saw the 'linux' part :)
<Burgwork> mhz, we build DiscoverStation on Fedora Core 4, but you can use the multi-headed bit on just about any modern distro, including Ubuntu
<Burgwork> mhz, thanks for the translation
<mhz> Burgwork: very similar to what we're trying to do in Tecnocimiento
<lucasvo> AMD Opteron 165, Dual Core, 1800MHz, 64Bit, BOX < is this good?
<mhz> np
<mhz> lucasvo: i can't give opinion on that
<Burgwork> mhz, there may be some work that you might care about coming out in the next moth
<Burgwork> lucasvo, dapper edbuntu will do 64 bit servers and 32 bit clients, I think
<lucasvo> Burgwork: that's cool
<mhz> Burgwork: what kind of work?
* mhz loves to work
<lucasvo> Burgwork: but than I have these problems with flash only on 32bit
<Burgwork> mhz, http://openuserful.org/
<Burgwork> lucasvo, true but blame macromedia, not the edubuntu team
<Burgwork> mhz, lucasvo the translated stuff on the wiki. Thanks a great deal mhz 
<lucasvo> Burgwork: of course
<mhz> lucasvo: I felt so radical when I decided to move from OSX and Apple biz model (I was a partner)  into Gnu/Linux freedom.. but I understood that every freedom comes with a price.
<lucasvo> my school has mac
* mhz just doesn't use or promote flash, and it hurts because I made money out of it
<lucasvo> mhz: out of what?
<mhz> Burgwork: no problem, I enjoyed translating tech stuff (maybe the only subject i like to translate)
<mhz> lucasvo: I made money from working using Flash
<Burgwork> mhz, our entire login screen in DiscoverStation is done in flash, a fact which I discovered to my horror yesterday
<mhz> and from helping apple dealers in chile
<mhz> Burgwork: LOL! and terrified!
<lucasvo> mhz: aha
<lucasvo> I actually quite like apple HW
<mhz> me too
<lucasvo> especially the design
<lucasvo> and the simplyness :D
<lucasvo> I have an iBook, I don't know any better small notebook
<lucasvo> maybe powerbook?
<mhz> lucasvo: but that hardware is also forcing you to use other Apple HW if the first machine neds to be recovered
<mhz> lucasvo: i really understand and like the design
<mhz> lucasvo: my point was (when I decided to be radical) that if I had an Audi and had a problem with it, and to solve that problem I was forced to have access to  another Audi, then even the HW development model was as invasive as M$
<mhz> lucasvo: and a better small notebook could be a Fujitsu Siemens and a Toshiba Libretto (the one I would love to have)
<lucasvo> Libretto? the jewelcase size one/
<lucasvo> ?
<mhz> even a Sharp!
<mhz> i guess.
* mhz has no urls or pictures... only because he doesnt wanna feel tempted to pay for something he cant afford
<lucasvo> exactly
<lucasvo> it also has to be cheap
<lucasvo> http://www.deltacomputer.de/produkte/cluster/D80z.shtml < something like this :D
<lucasvo> that would be a freakin ltsp server
* mhz is very into small laptops (10 inches or less)
<mhz> wow!, lucasvo that looks like a real server
<mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MauricioHernandez/BooksToRead  lucasvo 
<lucasvo> mhz: thanks
<agente87> hi lucasvo
<lucasvo> hi agente87 
<mhz> hi agente87 
<agente87> one question, how can i decompress an ace archive?
<lucasvo> ace?
<lucasvo> never heard of it :D
<agente87> ace, like rar and zip
<lucasvo> I can't help you, sry
<agente87> thanks
<lucasvo> ogra: I am missing the powerbutton in ldm :D
<Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FileCompression
<Burgwork> agente87, ^
<fitzwillie> Anyone lend a hand to someone trying to install for the first time?
#edubuntu 2005-12-21
<fitzwillie> Anyone have a moment?
<mhz> yup, me fitzwillie 
<fitzwillie> Ahh, thanks mhz... so, I'm trying to install Edu for the first time...
<fitzwillie> And I am having trouble - so I need to ask some basic (perhapsdumb) questions)
<fitzwillie> first, is it the entire .iso file (as a single file) that I should burn to a cd?  And that should be self-booting when I boot my target machine?
<fitzwillie> (assuming I have fiddled my bios correctly, or used a boot manager)
<lucasvo> fitzwillie: yes it is
<mhz> fitzwillie: do you have ubuntu already installed ?
<fitzwillie> No, it's an somewhat older x86 machine - I already formatted the hd to bee a bootable linux partition (using DSL booted from floppy & CDR)
<fitzwillie> but I can't get the iso cdrom to boot, either naturally, or usign a boot manager from a floppy.
<lucasvo> fitzwillie: you won't need that, just download edubuntucd and burn it
<lucasvo> fitzwillie: is a winxp install disk booting ?
<lucasvo> fitzwillie: or some other bootable disc?
<lucasvo> for e.g. of other linux distribution or norton rescue disk or windows ...?
<fitzwillie> I've been able to boot using DSL (damn small linux) and another CD I made bootable.
<lucasvo> so it is the problem of the edubuntu iso
<fitzwillie> I wonder how easy it is to damage the .iso when burning (I noted the warning about exceeding 8x speeds)
<lucasvo> that could be a problem
<lucasvo> did you check the md5sum?
<fitzwillie> no I didn;t... not clear on that procedure.
<lucasvo> fitzwillie: try to burn it again if you have enough cd-r :D
<fitzwillie> heh, yeah, plenty of them ;)  Okay,I'll try that... perhaps at a nice slor 2x or 4x write speed.
<lucasvo> fitzwillie: I had problems during download, I would also try to download it again
<lucasvo> :D
<lucasvo> if 2nd burned cd fails
<fitzwillie> Will do.  I was just worried I was missing something from a technical perspective, but it sounds like I was doing things correctly.
<fitzwillie> I'm a moderate newbie to linux, so this is an adventure.
<lucasvo> edubuntu is quite amazing :D
<lucasvo> it is extremly easy and good configured
<fitzwillie> It sounds like it - I really want to get it working for my boys.
<lucasvo> fitzwillie: ah, how old are they?
<fitzwillie> 5 & 7
<lucasvo> I am actually almost in the age I could still use it :D
<lucasvo> that's good for them
<fitzwillie> I need to give them something other than the XBox to play with ;)
<lucasvo> xbox is quite powerful one could even run edubuntu on it :D
<lucasvo> especially the new xbox360
<fitzwillie> LOL, yeah, I've heard you could do that... I don't think I'm going to go quite that far, though ;)
<fitzwillie> I did get Damn Small Linux running on an old laptop with 32mb ram, though
<lucasvo> 500$ for a pc better than my normal workstation :D
<fitzwillie> haven't had a chance to try it with a wireless card yet, though.
<lucasvo> uh
<lucasvo> you don't want to try it :D
<lucasvo> it isn't that easy
<lucasvo> chance that you have the correct card is less than 0.8 % 
<lucasvo> maybe this is not correct, let's say > 5 %
<fitzwillie> Well, it's less of a priority than the Edubuntu right now anyway... 
<fitzwillie> Anyway, I appreciate your help... I'll give it a go again tonight.  Wish me luck!
<lucasvo> tonight?, where are you from?
<lucasvo> I will go to bed now :D
<lucasvo> it's already 01:00 :D
<fitzwillie> California - pacific time - only 3:25 in the afternoon.
<fitzwillie> Thursday
<lucasvo> ah
<lucasvo> california 
<lucasvo> my second home 
<fitzwillie> Let's see, ten hours ahead puts you in Europe?
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> Zurich, Switzerland
<fitzwillie> Very nice!
<lucasvo> where do you live?
<lucasvo> Silicon Valey?
<fitzwillie> Yeah, near San Jose.
<juliux> lucasvo, we should found a german edubuntu channel ;)
<lucasvo> maybe I will move to san francisco next summer and live there for a year at my aunts house
<lucasvo> juliux: why not
<lucasvo> juliux: join #edubuntu-de
<juliux> lucasvo, because we have many people on fairs who are interesset in edubuntu
<fitzwillie> lucasvo: it's a lovely place to live - very urban.  Probably almost as chilly as Zurich when the fog comes in, too ;)
<lucasvo> fitzwillie: I was there in autumn
<lucasvo> it is indeed very similar
<lucasvo> juliux: I don't understand you, fair?
<juliux> lucasvo, what you dont understand?
<fitzwillie> Anyway, I'm off - many thanks.  I'll report back if I'm lucky.
<lucasvo> juliux: have many people on fairs who are interesset in edubuntu
<juliux> lucasvo, ah
<juliux> lucasvo, we have in germany many people who want to know more about edubuntu
<lucasvo> aha
<juliux> lucasvo, i present *ubuntu on fairs in germany
<lucasvo> fairs?
<juliux> messen
<lucasvo> aha
<lucasvo> is ubuntu at 22c3?
<juliux> i dont think so
<lucasvo> must be an interesting job to do ?
<juliux> yes it is very interesting
<juliux> i have done this for the last 2 years for gnome in germany
<lucasvo> I wanted to make a speech there about ronja but somehow missed the date
<lucasvo> anyway I go now... good night
<juliux> gn8
<agente87> hi
<mhz> jsgotangco: hi
<mhz> jsgotangco: bzr is happily living in my box
<jsgotangco> mhz, good day m8
<jsgotangco> awesome
<jsgotangco> 7 commands will get you to nirvana
<mhz> jsgotangco: sorry to be that lazy, but no which dir/branch should i get?
<mhz> no problem, the tutorial is very VERY KISS
<mhz> i liked it a lot
* mhz is already in nirvana .... me is ubuntu member! :D
<agente87> has anybody installed Jahshaka?
<agente87> there is no debian package
<agente87> ??
<mhz> agente87: never heard of that
<agente87> it a video editing software
<mhz> Burgwork: can we use bzr to fetch edubuntu ISO files? (kind of rsync like, to download only changes)
* mhz is so happy with bzr!!! I had used SVN long ago but BZR rocks
<Burgwork> mhz, hmm, unless the iso is in a bzr repo
<mhz> Burgwork: so it will work perfectly? replacing rsync fetching ISO changes?
<Burgwork> mhz, I doubt it. Rsync and bzr are really different tools
<mhz> indeed, but i heard there were some 'bzr-rsync' plugins
<mhz> but i may be very wrong
<Navire> Edububtu, run fine on enviroment corporation?
<Navire> Have life here?
<mhz> Navire: hi
<mhz> Edubuntu can be used on diff environments.
<Navire> Thank
<mhz> Navire: what's on your mind?
<Navire> My olds client Petium 100 32RAM and floppy, no boot PXE.
<Navire> MHZ - Is good man!! :) 
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> Navire: each client should have 48 MB ram
<mhz> and booting can be 'forced' via floppy
<Navire> Ok
<Navire> No problem with Olds  Petium 100Mhz?
<Navire> Run slow?
<mhz> not sure but shouldnt be
<mhz> all the load is on the server side and the network
<Navire> I am using LTSP in my home. Working cool.
<Navire> But Ubuntu + LTSP the official site, no package Ubuntu.
<Navire> I will try Edubuntu.
<Navire> I like will test Edu.
<mhz> hehe, well Edubuntu has meant very good things
<Navire> I will donwloading ISO now, and install there.
<mhz> Navire: edubuntu = ubuntu + LTSP + education apps.
<Navire> I know.
<mhz> and the edubuntu LTSP will be adopted as standard by LTSP 4.2
<Navire> Ok
<Navire> Have bittorent Edubuntu?
<Navire> ISO.
<mhz> hmm, i guess
<mhz> actually, i am sure
<mhz> but never used it yet
<mhz> did you check the wiki
<mhz> ?
<Navire> Ok
<Navire> Thank you.
<Navire> Sorry, my english is very bad. :)
<mhz> np
<mhz> mine too :)
<mhz> Navire: where are you from?
<Navire> I from Brazil.
<mhz> IMHO, brazil people always are very commited to Free software
<mhz> so english is secundary
<Navire> Realy.
<Navire> I have to go.
<Navire> See you later:)
<Navire> Mhz, Where are you from?
<mhz> Chile
<Navire> Fine.
<Navire> See you later.
<mhz> c ya and hope u are back
<Navire> Ok
<paolob> Hi guys! I have a edubuntu server with 4GB ram. The bios sees all the ram, while in linux I have only 2.9 GB. What is this? Anyone could help me to understand why? thank you!
<hyperactivecrond> paolob, what archiceture?
<paolob> i386
<hyperactivecrond> isn't there an issue with high amts of ram and x86?
<mhz> hyperactivecrond: IIRC, i think i read something like that?
<hyperactivecrond> iirc
<mhz> if i remember correctly :)
<Bob_Moon> Greetings, I've installed edubuntu on an older system (P2, 600mhz, 256mb ram) for my daughter.  Everything installed properly but once edubuntu loads the display divides in to quarters and is fuzzy.  It's a pretty old monitor.  Anyone run into this before, any ideas?
<zhx> hello?
<mhz> hi
<zhx> this isnt edubuntu specific,
<mhz> shoot, just in case :)
<zhx> but the ubuntu channel is too packed to get any help
<zhx> ha
<zhx> first off, nothing plays in totem
<zhx> which is fine, becaues i prefer vlc anyway
<zhx> so vlc plays everything...but no audio
<zhx> was curious if you had heard of this
<zhx> almost HAS to be a simple fix
<mhz> are you in audio group?
<zhx> audio group?
<mhz> yup
<zhx> wah wah wah?
<mhz> in a terminal type:  $ groups
<mhz> that command will show you all the groups you ruser belongs to
<zhx> yeah
<zhx> audio works just fine in the OS
<zhx> and xmms
<mhz> aoh
<zhx> oh quick question, how do i kill an unresponsive program?
<mhz> then, maybe VLC is using a diff audio server than XMMS ?
<mhz> xkill
<mhz> or
<mhz> in a terminal,
<mhz> killall the_program
<zhx> do you use vlc?
<mhz> npe
<MrMazda> install completed without asking for a root password or where to install grub, so now I can't use windoze or edubuntu
<zhx> so you use totem?
<mhz> MrMazda: had you ever installed a linux distro before?
<MrMazda> lotsa times
<MrMazda> but rarely debians
<mhz> zhx: actually, i use none. I see no videos in my box
<MrMazda> only Xandrox
<MrMazda> only Xandros
<mhz> MrMazda: good.
<mhz> MrMazda: and what option you chose? server? pressed enter? 
<MrMazda> enter
<MrMazda> my 10 year old wanted linux, and SuSE didn't have enuf room
<mhz> so you chose language, keyboard, let system recognize CD rom, etc
<MrMazda> all that seemed OK
<MrMazda> eventually after reboot it told me some packages failed to install
<MrMazda> but not which
<mhz> wired
<mhz> weired
<mhz> and after 1st reboot, it continued with no probs?
<MrMazda> until the packages failure message
<MrMazda> said I could proceed, so I did
<mhz> hmmmm
<mhz> MrMazda: you caught me
<MrMazda> then said done, and left me at login prompt
<mhz> ohh
<mhz> that is good
<mhz> what user you chose when installing?
<MrMazda> not without password
<MrMazda> none, I backed away because it demanded a password
<mhz> but it always asks for user and password (not root) while installing, alwys
<MrMazda> it asked, but when I refused to give it a non-null password it let me cancel, and then it proceeded without a user
<mhz> hmmm, then I can't help you
<mhz> my gues is that you should have given a password
<MrMazda> what good is system with no root password?
<MrMazda> never asked me
<MrMazda> If I boot Knoppix and delete /etc/passwd is it smart enough to ask for a new one on next boot?
<zhx> root is disabled in ubuntu
<zhx> by default
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> but if you inser a LiveCD and start a terminal and mount current 'non-working- system
<mhz> and then, mount it and chroot to it, you can run passwd a riit
<MrMazda> any old live CD?
<mhz> Gentoo, Knoppix, DSL, will do
<MrMazda> k
* mhz gotta sleep now, sorry
<MrMazda> I'll try in the AM, gotta sleep too
<MrMazda> thx :)
<mhz> (2:30 AM here)
<zhx> see ya
<mhz> see ya
<littlepaul> ogra, did you had time to read the minifaq?
<ogra> you flipped ltsp-utils and ltspadmin :)
<ogra> ltsp-utils is a package, not a command
<littlepaul> ups...
<ogra> the rest looks fine :)
<ogra> "Das ltsp-client Paket ist fr die chroot Umgebung auf dem Server von dem aus die Clients booten ntig." should rather say that ltsp-client is only for installation *inside* the created chroot environment and should not be touched manually at all, the ltsp-build-client script cares for it at chroot creation time
<littlepaul> :)
<ogra> seems some people install it on the server ....
<littlepaul> yesterday I looked over http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup again and I think there should be a kind of "intro" before this (even if everthing is a configured during installation)
<ogra> that intro was EdubuntuInstallNotes, but i agree, if you didnt read that page before, you are missing something ... its suboptimal ...
<littlepaul> I have the feeling that http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes is to "general"
<ogra> its all you need to know for a successful install ...
<littlepaul> i miss some words about the chroot environment; there is no definition about this and a teacher does know nothing about chroot
<ogra> he shouldnt
<lucasvo> littlepaul: ja ich spreche deutsch
<ogra> littlepaul, juliux and lucasvo opened #edubuntu-de yesterday
<littlepaul> ogra, great
<littlepaul> lucasvo, I'm working on a kind of Edubuntfaq in german
<littlepaul> lucasvo, maby I can also help somehow
<littlepaul> ogra, so can I update http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Edubuntufaq now? :)
<ogra> littlepaul, yup
<littlepaul> thx 
<ogra> apart from the small things i had above its fine 
<littlepaul> ogra, I installed edubuntu a while ago but I did not had time to configure an play with the server...
<ogra> if its a test install anyway, test dapper ;)
<littlepaul> ok, I downloaded dapper allready yesterday
<ogra> yay, great
<littlepaul> what about g2ding - no furhter development?
<ogra> hehe, you know g2ding ? 
<littlepaul> sure
<ogra> i use it, but stopped development looong ago... i should probably package it :)
<ogra> the package on my personal server is very bad ....
<littlepaul> I tested this package :)
<ogra> it works, but the icon locations are wrong for example ... and the packaging work is one of my first attempts ...
<ogra> its quite old ... 
<ogra> more than 2 years ...
<littlepaul> oh, then you evolved very fast :)
<ogra> heh, yes, i dont do anything else since 2 years ... :)
<ogra> except some gardening probably ...
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: there will be NO meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan. | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: there will be NO meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan. | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | see also #edubuntu-es and #edubuntu-de
<ogra> :)
<littlepaul> cool
<lucasvo> ogra: :D
<lucasvo> ogra: cool
<ogra> lucasvo, 
<ogra> * scp generates a new password (as long as possible with pwgen) on every start in /opt/ltsp/<arch>/etc/s-c-p/passwd
<ogra> * the passwd file is root read only... (s-c-p runs with sudo anyway)
<ogra> * on the thin client runs "x11vnc -display :6 -scale 2/3 -forever"(x11vnc, an initscript and the password dir get installed by s-c-p postinst in the chroot)
<ogra> * the viewer runs with the password from /opt/ltsp/<arch>/etc/s-c-p/passwd
<ogra> * determine speedups and compression policys that can be used ...
<lucasvo> hm, looks good
<lucasvo> ogra: since I updated to dapper there is white background in ldm, is this normal?
<ogra> the prob is that we have to pick up the display on the client ... that slows vnc down a lot ...
<ogra> i'D rather have a greyscale vnc connection, but it seems that not implemented yet
<ogra> thats the themeable ldm ...
<ogra> it shouldnt be plain white though
<ogra> should be somewhat ebony ... or antiquewhite
<spacey_ki> ogra, should i edit the ltsp-client-build script or is it possible to just upgrade the ltsp chroot to dapper?
<ogra> for what ? 
<spacey_ki> to get dapper client on breezy server
<ogra> (if you have a chroot alread dont build it again, that mostly causes problems)
<ogra> it doesnt work 100% since the two kernels (server/client) are out of sync ...
<ogra> but try the upgrading rather than rebuilding the chroot
<spacey_ki> ok
<spacey_ki> you mean the kernel thats passed to the client with tftp?
<spacey_ki> is out of sync with the one on the chroot?
<ogra> and dont forget to run ltsp-update-kernels on the server afterwards
<ogra> yes
<ogra> but ltsp-update-kernels should solve that 
<spacey_ki> ok
<spacey_ki> i'll give it a shot :o)
<ogra> make a backup of the chroot ;)
<ogra> a tar.bz2 or something ;)
<spacey_ki> already tarring it ;)
<spacey_ki> 307 upgraded, 52 newly installed, 2 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<spacey_ki> oe 50 more packages in the chroot
<spacey_ki> gnome stuff
<ogra> yup
<ogra> themeable ldm requires gnomecanvas ...
<ogra> that pulls python-gnome in
<spacey_ki> i'll install the bootchart as well. 
<ogra> good idea 
<ogra> note you need a way to access the client ...
<spacey_ki> already got that fixed up yesterday ;)
<ogra> ah, yes, i remeber
<spacey_ki> i had hope you forgot:P
<ogra> lol
<spacey_ki> ldm_0.62_all.deb
<spacey_ki>  has some errors
<spacey_ki> btw
<ogra> ?
<spacey_ki> had to use apt-get -f install
<ogra> can you paste them please ? or file a bug ? i had none here
<spacey_ki> it was really informative,only that it generated some errors and apt stopped
<ogra> if you have to run -f install it will break a possible automation, i'd like to fix that
<spacey_ki> 2005-12-16 13:45:41 install ldm <none> 0.62
<spacey_ki> 2005-12-16 13:45:41 status half-installed ldm 0.62
<spacey_ki> 2005-12-16 13:45:41 status not-installed ldm <none>
<spacey_ki> thats dpkg.log
<ogra> no, i need the apt-error
<spacey_ki> well i guess i can reinstall it
<spacey_ki> ah wait i'll generate it again
<spacey_ki> Errors were encountered while processing:
<spacey_ki>  /var/cache/apt/archives/ldm_0.62_all.deb
<spacey_ki> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<spacey_ki> ogra, what else do you need?
<ogra> the real error is somewhere above
<ogra> somewher near: setting up ldm
<spacey_ki> Selecting previously deselected package ldm.
<spacey_ki> Unpacking ldm (from .../apt/archives/ldm_0.62_all.deb) ...
<spacey_ki> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ldm_0.62_all.deb (--unpack):
<spacey_ki>  trying to overwrite `/usr/sbin/ldm', which is also in package ltsp-client
<ogra> ah, thanks 
* ogra fixes
<ogra> there is missing a "Replaces: ltsp-client" in the ldm package 
<spacey_ki> :)
<spacey_ki> great
<spacey_ki> i'll reboot and check if it actually works :o)
* ogra hands spacey_ki a bugsquasher goldstar :-D
<spacey_ki> woei :)
<spacey_ki> brb
<spacey> ogra: it works
<ogra> great :)
<spacey> first time an nfs timeout.. but the four reboots after that it works good
<ogra> hmm, i saw that too... 
<spacey> only bootchart doesn't seem to work.
<ogra> did you regenerate the initramfs in the chroot ? 
<spacey> probably not
<ogra> bootchart must be in initramfs
<ogra> do a dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.15-8-386 in the chroot and then run ltsp-update-kernels again
<spacey> i just found update-initramfs 
<spacey> but dpkg-reconfigure is probably more nice
<ogra> yes, you can do that too, but it need some forse option iirc
<ogra> *force
<spacey> want to other errors which show up during boot?
<ogra> nope3
<ogra> -3
<ogra> the startscript removal isnt i the new packages yet... 
<ogra> if it still occurs after these are in, i'd like to know about it
<ogra> currently the bootprocess doesnt differ much from breezy (wrt startscripts)
<spacey> ok
<spacey> just noticed some command not found thingy
<ogra> so errors because of readonly filesys etc are normal ...
<lucasvo> ogra: I thought there will be a bootsplash?
<ogra> yes, if i dont need bugreports about booterrors anymore ;)
<littlepaul> hi mhz 
<ogra> bootsplash is enabled, but no dependency of ltsp-client yet 
<mhz> hi littlepaul 
<ogra> so if you install it manually, and regenerate the initramfs and run ltsp-update-kernels, it will be there ... 
<mhz> ogra: thanx for suggesting me to give bzr a try... i am in nirvana :D
<ogra> hehe
<mhz> ogra: and i am still kicking my chilean butt for the flood yesterday on the pm (i hope you were away)
<ogra> i was
<mhz> i thought it was much little (so it looked in my editor)
<ogra> dont worry, i dont mind floods in pm
<mhz> uuuf
* mhz feels relaxed
<spacey> ogra: /etc/rcS.d/Sltsp-client-setup: line 137: X_MODE: command not found
<ogra> yup
<spacey> k :)
<ogra> it doesnt work anyway 
<ogra> i'm not sure if i will wipe it...
<mhz> ogra: after jerome offering to make my ODP's into DocBook, I was very happy but I can't figure out where to start in kjcole's branch
<ogra> thats one of the debian fixes
<mhz> ogra: BTW, could you read that flood anyways? It was about Moin devel suggestions to use Moin in Edubuntu default setup
<jsgotangco> Moin Moin Moin =)
<mhz> jsgotangco: but this wasn't me talking, this was regarding ogra's participating in Umeet talk and meeting Moin leader
<mhz> they have good points
<jsgotangco> i was just pulling your leg =)
<mhz> i was just a meseenger ("il mensajero e non importante")
<mhz> :)
<ogra> mhz, moin is fine, but as your devs say in the flood, there is no ootb setup
<ogra> and since we work with the default package, i see no possibility to make one happen 
<ogra> note that you cant just introduce a default setup ...
<mhz> ogra: but what if i took care of a moin package that is not default. would that help?
<ogra> nope, we couldnt ship it
<mhz> ok
<ogra> we dont duplicate packages ...
<mhz> nop, no duplicating, I mean make the package work so we can include it
<ogra> the prob with a default setup is that all sites (maybe all ecxisting ones) rely on the fact that there is no default setup ... 
<ogra> seems paradox, but thats the prob
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> ok, so no way a classrom env. could benefir from Moin ready to be used
<mhz> ?
<ogra> if you break someones tewaked setup during an upgrade because you inroduce  default setup, you have lost
<ogra> sure
<mhz> oh, good point
<ogra> but that would have to be an upstream change tht would need to happen 
<ogra> something like mediawiki does wouldbe suitable
<mhz> see? now I get lost again
<mhz> :)
<mhz> that is why I would have prefered you two chat about it instead of me
<mhz> :D
<ogra> mediawiki installs a install.html form on the webserve in http/localhost/wiki/
<ogra> err
<ogra> install.php
<jsgotangco> yeah IT ROCKS
* jsgotangco just did a massive mediawiki hack for work
<ogra> sou you can set it up very easy with some mouseclicks and no config file tweaking at all
<mhz> if we think Moin can be useful on a classroom env. ( i am convinced) I can commit to do my best to make it happen. I would need some little guidance and I'd follow orders
<mhz> :)
<ogra> if there are already existing wiki setups, this page just isnt installed
<jsgotangco> ogra, actually install.php is the only thing that you'll ever need for mediawiki
<ogra> yup 
<jsgotangco> (unless you have to edit up php.ini for memalloc
<ogra> thats its big advantage
<jsgotangco> its just no brainer really
<jsgotangco> probably the best installer
<ogra> and that it respects existing setups ...
<littlepaul> mhz, I'm also convinced that mediawiki could be usefull for classrooms
<jsgotangco> next would be gallery2
<mhz> well, I know Henrik made a GUI installer for Moin Desktop Edition and it will be shipped in TheOpenCd
<jsgotangco> mhz, we're working on that
<ogra> the prob is that its php
<mhz> jsgotangco: open cd, too?
<jsgotangco> mhz, the problem though is disk trashing
<ogra> and that its security history is odd 
<jsgotangco> ogra, mediawiki are the worst security backporters
<spacey> http://users.lichtsnel.nl/~spacey/plaatjes/bootchart/dapper-20051216-1.png
<mhz> ogra: sure, hence I am for Moin :)
<ogra> and that we cant support it out of both reasons :/
<ogra> jsgotangco, tey dont do backporting of fixes at all
<ogra> thats why we cant suport it
<jsgotangco> such an awesome product though
<ogra> spacey, WOW
<ogra> 26 sec ??
<jsgotangco> wow
<ogra> without startscript tweaking ?
<jsgotangco> mhz, we're doing the orchard in moin
<mhz> ogra: so, if Moin can have a 'user' interface to set it up, that would be a 'go' to ship Moin?
<mhz> jsgotangco: orchard?
<ogra> mhz, a user interface for set "that respects *any* existing configuration"
<jsgotangco> mhz, orchard.theopencd.org
<ogra> s/set/setup
* mhz opening tab
<spacey> ogra: actually it has extra stuff installed like openssh server
<ogra> cool
<jsgotangco> mhz, the problem with moin in a user config is that it has a lot of *awful* and not so awful hacks
<spacey> ogra: but it is an 1,8ghz thin client ofcourse :P
<ogra> yup... 
<ogra> i see, but still :)
<jsgotangco> mhz, try setting up mediawiki in your $home and you'll see it doesn't affect the system at all
<spacey> ogra: better then breezy client :P
<mhz> jsgotangco: sure, but that's a start. Also, Moin server is meant for admins, not for endusers who have MMDE
<mhz> jsgotangco: i did, some time ago.
<jsgotangco> mhz, its a good sample though
<mhz> jsgotangco: and you're right
<mhz> yup
<jsgotangco> i'd love to see moin do that really
<mhz> jsgotangco: iirc, Cups web GUI is made in python, or not?
<jsgotangco> i don't know i won't be surprised if it is though
<mhz> jsgotangco: so if it is, maybe Moin has some hopes
<ogra> <mhz> jsgotangco: sure, but that's a start. Also, Moin server is meant for admins, not for endusers who have MMDE
<jsgotangco> mhz, its only software, we shall overcome (TM)
<mhz> dropdwon menus and all
<ogra> mhz, thats the prob ...
<ogra> tachers are no admins
<jsgotangco> right
<ogra> *teachers
<mhz> ogra: but school tool and moodel have same 'target': admins
<ogra> moodle has a similar system mediawiki has for setup
<jsgotangco> but they can be easily configured 
<mhz> hmm, bad example :)
<ogra> schooltool is set up by default
* jsgotangco remembers the first time he setup moin
<jsgotangco> it took me half a day to figure it out
* mhz remembers the first time, too....wow, it was different!
<jsgotangco> its much better lately though
<mhz> indeed
* mhz slaps himself for not being a python mon
<jsgotangco> but i'll wiat for the day i can just download a tarball open it up and open a browser to set it up
<mhz> ok... I'll think of a plan to have a Moin gui setup so we can ship moin for school env.
<ogra> jsgotangco, pfft
<jsgotangco> ogra, i'm a lazy admin =)
<ogra> i wait for the day ican apt-get install it and start wikiing on localhost immediately
<mhz> ogra: so, why are we currently having python-moin ?
<jsgotangco> ogra, that one too
<ogra> mhz, yup
<jsgotangco> ogra, on a virtual host even
<ogra> mhz, even shipped on the DVD 
<mhz> bu t why?
<mhz> what for?
<ogra> for moin admins that want to use it
<ogra> and because we use it ourself as wikiengine
<mhz> hahehehehe
<mhz> i see
<jsgotangco> eat your own dogfood?
<ogra> ut its nothing to ship for a schoolserver without mere linux knowlwdge
<ogra> thast why its not in the default install
<mhz> ogra, MMDE starts wiking on your localhost by runing ./moin
<mhz> but i see what you mean
<ogra> but still runs in $HOME
<mhz> i wont cry any more
<ogra> just convince upstream to make it as easy as mediawiki to install ;)
* mhz will try to group python geeks in LA that are convinced moin rocks
* mhz sighs
<ogra> if we have an install.py page, i'll immediate include it .... with sugar on top
<ogra> :)
<mhz> jsgotangco: ogra: thanks for your patience and enlightenment about this mhz-moin issue :D
<ogra> mhz, its there for you on the DVD and in main ...
<ogra> :)
<mhz> yup
<jsgotangco> and MMDE
<mhz> but honestly
<mhz> i always prefer the wget -c .tar.gz
<mhz>  :D
<jsgotangco> mhz, don't get me wrong, i really like moin, but its just too unfriendly to setup 
<mhz> sure
<mhz> I agree
<mhz> it's just that once it's setup... it rocks
<guim> hi all
<mhz> actually, jsgotangco I am being shut down my current tecnocimiento.cl hosting
<jsgotangco> eh/
<jsgotangco> ?
<mhz> so, I just tar'ed my /data and .py files and in 2 minutes, i'll be ready to start in a diff server :)
<jsgotangco> what happened?
* mhz is waiting to get answer from that other server admin, thoug
<mhz> jsgotangco: i broke relationships with the german guys owners of that hosting
<mhz> so, before we start arguing indefintely, I offered my 'moving'
* mhz BBL
<lucasvo> ogra: is usplash working on ltsp client/
<ogra> lucasvo, yes i explained it to you 2h ago
<ogra> <ogra> bootsplash is enabled, but no dependency of ltsp-client yet 
<ogra> <mhz> hi littlepaul 
<ogra> <ogra> so if you install it manually, and regenerate the initramfs and run ltsp-update-kernels, it will be there ... 
<lucasvo> ah
<lucasvo> 18:40 < ogra> <ogra> so if you install it manually, and regenerate the initramfs and run ltsp-update-kernels, it will be there ...
<lucasvo> I didn't see that
<lucasvo> ah crap
<lucasvo> now this stupid nfs error comes again
<lucasvo> ogra: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ && apt-get install edubuntu-artwork-usplash usplash && initramfs && ctrl+d && ltsp-update-kernels ?
<ogra> nop
<lucasvo> /boot/initrd.img-2.6.15-8-386 was been altered.  Cannot update.
<ogra> you dont install initramfs
<lucasvo> I don't install it :D
<lucasvo> I just execute it
<ogra> the updating of the initramfs is done through dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.15-8-386
<ogra> or through update-initramfs -d -t
<lucasvo> Not touching initrd symlinks since we are being reinstalled (2.6.15-8.10)
<lucasvo> Not updating image symbolic links since we are being updated (2.6.15-8.10)
<lucasvo> ok?
<lucasvo> Skipping openfirmware images.  Install the mkvmlinuz package if you need them.
<lucasvo> Skipping netabootwrap images.  Install the aboot package if you need them.
<lucasvo> wow
<lucasvo> it works
<lucasvo> cool
<lucasvo> thanks ogra 
<ogra> :)
<ogra> but if your boot isnt tweaked it might time out before you reach ldm ...
<lucasvo> yes it does :(
<lucasvo> ogra: how can I tweak it?
<ogra> remove the unneeded startscripts (can explain which now, there is a spec for it ...)
<ogra> bbl
<MrMazda> what do people on edubuntu use instead of the missing mc?
<lucasvo> MrMazda: nautilus?
<lucasvo> MrMazda: cp, mv, ln ...
<MrMazda> o_O
<MrMazda> does nautilus work on VCs?
<MrMazda> cp, mv, ln, etc seem a bit harsh for a kid
<MrMazda> can apt or dpkg find me mc somewhere on a fresh default install?
<lucasvo> why not using nautilus?
<MrMazda> does nautilus work on VCs?
<lucasvo> VC?
<lucasvo> nautilus is graphical
<MrMazda> tty[1-6] 
<lucasvo> no it doens't
<lucasvo> why should a kid use tty[1-6] 
<lucasvo> ?
<MrMazda> I don't boot a fresh install into GUI until basic configuration is done with an OFM
<lucasvo> why?
<lucasvo> why should a kid make basic configuration?
<MrMazda> DOS heritage I guess
<MrMazda> make it ready for me to understand what kid is up against
<MrMazda> she's only 10
<lucasvo> a kid is not supposed to use commandline :D
<MrMazda> kid is no admin though
<MrMazda> If I can't admin, she gets no edubuntu
<lucasvo> exactly
<lucasvo> how do you want to admin?
<lucasvo> with mc?
<MrMazda> 1
<MrMazda> it's how I find out what's under the hood
<MrMazda> and fix whatever's broke
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~/ubuntu/student-control-panel-0.1$ apt-cache search midnight
<lucasvo> gkrellmitime - Internet time plugin for gkrellm
<lucasvo> gnome-vfs-extfs - The GNOME virtual file-system extra fs scripts for GMC.
<lucasvo> juice - playlist editor / player frontend
<lucasvo> junior-system - Debian Jr. System tools
<lucasvo> krusader - Twin-panel (commander-style) File Manager for KDE
<lucasvo> lfm - simple but powerful file manager for the UNIX console
<lucasvo> mc - midnight commander - a powerful file manager
<lucasvo> sorry for flood
<MrMazda> np
<lucasvo> see, there is mc
<MrMazda> single prompt said not found
<MrMazda> does your flood tell me it's available, or that it's already installed?
<lucasvo> it tells you that it is available over the net
<MrMazda> k
<lucasvo> I have all feeds activated(universe and main)
<MrMazda> the installer didn't actually finish
<lucasvo> it should be in main
<MrMazda> told me some programs were not installed (unknown reason)
<lucasvo> for e.g. gcc :D
<lucasvo> I was quite amazed 
<MrMazda> k
<lucasvo> I thought why does this stupid program not compile?
<lucasvo> so I had to first install make and gcc 
<lucasvo> ogra: I found it, now it is damn fast ! :D
<MrMazda> lucasvo: I'm up against a no space left on device error
<MrMazda>  / is full 
<lucasvo> what disksize do you have?
<MrMazda>  / is 1.95M
<MrMazda>  /home is 1.6G
<MrMazda>  / is 1.95G
<lucasvo>                       7.2G  5.2G  1.7G  77% /
<lucasvo> I have 5GB
<MrMazda> so the aborted install must have left trash somewhere
<lucasvo> MrMazda: ask in #ubuntu I don't know how much space you need
<MrMazda> docs say 2G
<lucasvo> MrMazda: you could try to delte the apt cache
<MrMazda> where is it?
<lucasvo> /var/cache/apt/archives/
<MrMazda> k
<lucasvo> don't you think 1.6gb is a little too much for one person?
<lucasvo> I would rather do: 0.8gb for /home and the rest for /
<MrMazda> 2 people, kid & her mom
<lucasvo> ah, ok
<MrMazda> mebbe I'll start over with 1.3G /home
<lucasvo> MrMazda: is it working? rm -rf /var/cache/apt/archives/*
<MrMazda> lucasvo: didn't go upstairs yet to try
<lucasvo> MrMazda: ssh :D
<MrMazda> not yet configured here
<lucasvo> ssh is working out of the box
<MrMazda> I said here
<lucasvo> aha
<lucasvo> you need ssh client?
<MrMazda> This box is OS/2
<vincenzio> os/2 is fantastic.
<vincenzio> http://linuxmafia.com/ssh/os2.html
<vincenzio> the hobbes ftp has a client on it.
<MrMazda> I go upstairs to check the kid and to get exercise. Ssh is like paying someone to mow the lawn, then dying from lack of exercise.
* vincenzio dies from lack of exercise.
<lucasvo> lol
<MrMazda> ssh client is already on my other keyboard, but also not configured (Mandriva 2006)
* lucasvo wonders how he should manage his server 1000km away from him
<vincenzio> start walking, lucasvo.
<vincenzio> start walking.
<MrMazda> lucasvo: ~450M freed, dpkg(apt?) --configure -a running now
<MrMazda> lotta screen activity
<MrMazda> lotta gstreamer errors
<MrMazda> still "Setting up ..."
<MrMazda> lucasvo: that recovery attempt failed. I repartitioned to give / 2.25G, but next install attempt also failed on no space left on device error
<MrMazda> guess I gotta go find some other distro that actually fits on the recommended minimum space
<lucasvo> MrMazda: what are you installing?
<lucasvo> MrMazda: ubuntu?
<MrMazda> edubuntu
<MrMazda> 5.1
<lucasvo> MrMazda: I suggest you to go to #ubuntu and ask why it takes up so much space
<lucasvo> MrMazda: I don't really know about installation procedure
<lucasvo> MrMazda: since ubuntu and edubuntu are 95% the same it shouldn't be any problem
<lucasvo> MrMazda: I would do it like this:
<lucasvo> partition full drive to / 
<lucasvo> install it
<lucasvo> delete /var/cache/apt/archives/* and look how much space is left
<MrMazda> ppl on #ubuntu say only 1.6G required
<MrMazda> lucasvo: I'm a-865 on #ubuntu
<MrMazda> lucasvo: maybe I should try it with the network cable disconnected?
<MrMazda> how can there be so much on one CD?
<lucasvo> MrMazda: yes
<lucasvo> don't install network in the beginning
<MrMazda> I'll go try that now
<lucasvo> MrMazda: I already worked with suse, debian, gentoo, and I have never seen such a userfriendly demonstartion
<lucasvo> s/demonstration/distribution/g
<MrMazda> new install proceeding with network cable unplugged
<MrMazda> first reboot into Knoppix instead to see only less than 900M used on /
<lucasvo> hm, you know what!
<lucasvo> that reminds me I once had a similar problem!
<lucasvo> as well with a installation of ubuntu
<lucasvo> I reburnt the cd and retried and it worked
<lucasvo> MrMazda: I would try that
<MrMazda> I used a 52X burner at 24X
<lucasvo> strange
<lucasvo> I had exactly the same problem
<MrMazda> we'll soon see if the missing network cable fixes it
#edubuntu 2005-12-22
<MrMazda> lucasvo: didn't work, downloading kubuntu now
<MrMazda> download complete
<MrMazda> losts faster than yesterday
<mhz> uuuufff
<mhz> finally
<MrMazda> mhz: 3 attempts to install failed with disk full, so now gonna do kubuntu instead
<mhz> this is not logical :(
<MrMazda>  /var/cache/apt/archive over 500M of stuff
<mhz> how big is your HD?
<MrMazda> 1st 2 tries 1.95G /, 3rd 2.25G /
<MrMazda> ppl on #ubuntu said 1.6G should be enuf
* MrMazda goes upstairs to try new CD
<MrMazda> lucasvo: kubuntu installed, but it's stuck at 640x480 :-p
<Lord_Athur> I'm a linux user, but I'll have to use win a few days
<Lord_Athur> is there a program to work on terminal from win?
<pitux> Lord_Athur putty
<pitux> connect with ssh 
<Lord_Athur> but I haven't got a linux server :S
<Lord_Athur> is there an emulator?
<Lord_Athur> bye
<luluroot> lucasvo: this be the new MrMazda system running kubuntu, Firefox & Chatzilla 
<mhz> re
<MrMazda> mhz: struck out 3 times with out of disk space on edubuntu, got kubutu going OK o_O
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  If you're at a conference, please contact freenode staff to make sure we've made special allowance for many users coming into our network from a single internet address ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp ). Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked, except to network staff, services and participating registered users ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )... Thanks!
<lucasvo> MrMazda: cool, you did it?
<lucasvo> MrMazda: if you want to install edubuntu just type: apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<lucasvo> MrMazda: you screen resolution is working/
<MrMazda> lucasvo: I had to add manually to xorg.conf the missing HorizSync and VertRefresh, then the higher resolutions worked
<lucasvo> MrMazda: I had the same problems
<lucasvo> MrMazda: best to do is: submit a bug in bugzilla.ubuntu.com
<MrMazda> consoles randomly get error messages making them useless
<MrMazda> bug about the bad edubuntu installs? about the defective xorg.conf?
<lucasvo> defective xorg.conf
<MrMazda> k
<MrMazda> where/what name is the installation log?
<MrMazda> lotsa gstreamer and fontconfig error messages during install on tty4
<lucasvo> MrMazda: /var/log/x*.log
<MrMazda> k
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$ vi /var/log/Xorg.20.log.old
<MrMazda> 20 is from the installer?
<lucasvo> no
<lucasvo> MrMazda: look at all of the Xorg logs
<jelkner> ogra: good morning oliver
<lucasvo> 15:03 < djm62> lucasvo: sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-corg
<lucasvo> MrMazda: delete all the /var/log/Xorg*
<lucasvo> then do:  sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<lucasvo> MrMazda: then you can attach the xorg.log
<lucasvo> MrMazda: you have to do that in tty2-5
<lucasvo> MrMazda: and then you have to add horzsync again
<MrMazda> lucasvo: I have to go upstairs to do all this
<MrMazda> lucasvo: I saved the original xorg.conf
<lucasvo> ok
<lucasvo> MrMazda: or ssh I think :D
<lucasvo> hi Yagisan 
<lucasvo> MrMazda: running kda?
<Yagisan> G'day lucasvo
<lucasvo> MrMazda: try apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<MrMazda> I don't like Gnome
<lucasvo> MrMazda: why? 
<lucasvo> because of linus? :D
<lucasvo> MrMazda: in edubuntu-desktop you get all  the education apps
<MrMazda> used to KDE since years ago when Gnome was awful
<lucasvo> MrMazda: yes, I did too, I am using gnome since warty
<MrMazda> gotta find out if enuf space left on device :-D
<lucasvo> MrMazda: apt-get remove kde
<MrMazda> added some stuff already, so it's pretty full
<ogra> MrMazda, how much space do you have ? 
<MrMazda> o_O
<MrMazda> gotta go upstairs to see what's left
<MrMazda> 2.25G to start with for /
<ogra> thats not enough for a default edubuntu ...
<ogra> you'll need ~2.6G
<MrMazda> I read some doc that said needs 2G
<Yagisan> that's barely enough for normal ubuntu
<ogra> 2.2G is fine for a normal ubuntu, edubuntu brings more apps
<ogra> kdeedu and all the kde stuff we ship is an ugl beast ...
<ogra> *ugly
<lucasvo> apt-get remove qt
<ogra> heh
<Yagisan> MrMazda, normal ubuntu installs in 2G, but whoever wrote that never tried it. I did - you don't have any space left.
<lucasvo> I hate the qt dual licensing :(
<ogra> its gone with qt4
<lucasvo> ogra: it is?
<Yagisan> lucasvo: why ?
<ogra> afaik, yes
<ogra> hey jelkner 
<lucasvo> Yagisan: for e.g. german post had to remove their stampit *proprietary* plugin for openoffice since it includes qt
<MrMazda> looks like I could get some space back by removing a bunch of eastern fonts
<MrMazda> way lotta font packages installed
<lucasvo> MrMazda: did you clear /var/cache/apt/archives/?
<MrMazda> got 450K back from doing that manually
<ogra> yes, that might give you 2-300MB
<ogra> eeek
<ogra> never do that manually
<jelkner> ogra: good morning
<ogra> use apt-get clean for that
<MrMazda> couldn't find another way
<lucasvo> ogra: ok
<Yagisan> lucasvo: that's what happens when you don't read the license
<MrMazda> that wasn't what was suggested yesterday
<ogra> MrMazda, i wasnt around in the evening :)
<MrMazda> someone said some other kind of clean
<lucasvo> Yagisan: they are allowed to include their software with dual licensing?
<lucasvo> MrMazda: *me*
<lucasvo> MrMazda: I was wrong
<MrMazda> too late now :-)
<ogra> yup
<ogra> wont break heavily though, dont worry ...
<MrMazda> already added repositories and updated
<MrMazda> gimp
<MrMazda> mc
<Yagisan> lucasvo: the author of qt can license it however they like.
<ogra> but as a rule of thumb, if there is a tool in a linux system, never edit files manually or delete stuff, you might miss something that tool would do as well
<MrMazda> firefox/thunderbird
<MrMazda> I know that rule
<MrMazda> gotta be able to find that GUI tool though
<lucasvo> MrMazda: synaptic?
<ogra> for maintaining packages ? 
<ogra> thats synaptic or gnome-app-install
<ogra> kubuntu/kde has something similar
<lucasvo> gnome-app-install is lame
<ogra> why ?
<MrMazda> synaptic, dpkg, apt, adept - too many different tools for packages
<lucasvo> it only provides the most common packages
<lucasvo> MrMazda: you forgot aptitude
<ogra> gnome-app-install is far superior to synaptic on the usability side
<MrMazda> aptitude, synaptic, dpkg, apt, adept - too many different tools for packages
<ogra> they do different things :)
<ogra> synaptic and aptitude are just frontends
<lucasvo> dpkg is included into almost everything
<Yagisan> MrMazda: I can point to at least one of those tools that doesn't work on my X less box
<ogra> ... to apt
<ogra> apt is a frontend to dpkg
<ogra> adept is a copy of synaptic in kde
<ogra> they are completely different things ...
<MrMazda> you're making me try to learn to much - I'm a rpm user
<spacey_ki> even working on weekends ogra ;/
<MrMazda> Debian gives me fits
<ogra> spacey_ki, not really ...
<Yagisan> my preferred front end is aptitude
<lucasvo> I prefer apt
<MrMazda> screwed up tty video on every one of them
<spacey_ki> ogra, don't forget to relax a bit :P
<ogra> heh, i'll try
<ogra> i'm on my way out anyway, GF is ill and i have to pick up food for the animals ... else they'll starve over the weekend
<lucasvo> ogra is in a hurry for dapper :D
<ogra> nah, no hurry at all :)
<Yagisan> ogra: Hope GF gets better soon.
<ogra> we are fine in our timeframe ...
<ogra> Yagisan, i'll tell her ...
<ogra> she already was better (after 4 weeks of sleepless nights with crying from pain)
<ogra> but somehow it started over tonight
<MrMazda> seems like Bug 7878 resurfaced
<Yagisan> ?? what did she catch ?
<spacey_ki> damn, thats quite serious
<ogra> we have no idea
<ogra> seems it hurts heavily below her right eye ....
<spacey_ki> went to hospital i assume?
<ogra> the doc has no idea what that could be ...
<Yagisan> 2nd opinion ?
<ogra> now she got pulled out a tooth last week, but that seem not to have been the cause of pain ...
<spacey_ki> time for a xray
<ogra> i'll arrange a computer tomography next week for here, to get some more insight ...
<ogra> no hospital yet ... she first wants to try out all options without that
<spacey_ki> what is computer tomography?
* ogra babelfishes
<Yagisan> spacey_ki: most likely cat scan
<Yagisan> I had one done for myself - big white tube
<Yagisan> strong magnets
<ogra> yeah ...
<ogra> babalfish doesnt help :/
<spacey_ki> not dangerious when you have some metal in your teeth?
<ogra> nope
<Yagisan> have some guy say "lie still" while they scan your head
<spacey_ki> not suddenly teethless
<spacey_ki> :)
<ogra> and afterwards you have a 3D model of your head ...
<Yagisan> and then they go, we *still* don't know whats wrong
<lucasvo> that's cool, I once had to do it with my arm
<ogra> its a kind of xray in slices they do ... and afterwards they build a 3D model of it
<Yagisan> oh wait - that may only be for me
<ogra> Yagisan, i suspect it might be the same for us :/
<lucasvo> Yagisan: it is quite common, they still don't know what's wrong with my arm
<ogra> the dentist already did a normal xray... nothing suspisious ...
<lucasvo> I still can't do any push-ups :(
<Yagisan> at least I got a picture of my head
<lucasvo> lol
<Yagisan> lucasvo: RSI ??
<lucasvo> Yagisan: rsi?
<ogra> yes, sounds like
<ogra> to much comuter work :)
<Yagisan> Repetitive Strain Injury
<ogra> *computer
<ogra> take more rests
<Yagisan> or ah something else ;)
<lucasvo> Yagisan: I don't know, I had a broken arm a 2 years ago
<lucasvo> Yagisan: broken forever, I can't push anything more than 20kg
<spacey_ki> good thing you do computer work :P
<spacey_ki> only need to press keys
<lucasvo> spacey_ki: I am doing headwork in school atm
<spacey_ki> headwork?
<Yagisan> ouch, I've shredded all the ligaments on my knee before. Couldn't move my lower leg
<lucasvo> brainwork
<spacey_ki> right
<spacey_ki> what work does your brain do
<Yagisan> dragged myself 7 kilometers to a hospital on one leg, just to get it put in plaster
<lucasvo> spacey_ki: math, biology, french, german, english, italian, chemistry, physics
<lucasvo> and arts and craft
<spacey_ki> your on highschool?
<lucasvo> spacey_ki: yes
<spacey_ki> aha
<spacey_ki> what country? germany?
<lucasvo> spacey_ki: switzerland
<spacey_ki> ah
<spacey_ki> that figures
<lucasvo> spacey_ki: why?
<spacey_ki> regarding the languages
<lucasvo> aha
<spacey_ki>  french, german, english, italian
<spacey_ki> :)
<spacey_ki> you need them all there
<spacey_ki> :)
<lucasvo> not really, everybody speaks english
<lucasvo> http://www.google.ch/ < is available even in our fourth "official" language...
<lucasvo> rumantsch
<lucasvo> web=rait
<lucasvo> I think it is net = rait
* Yagisan sighs
* Yagisan can here the arabic gangs gathering outside
* Yagisan suspects there may be another riot
<lucasvo> Yagisan: where do you live?
<spacey_ki> where are you from then Yagisan 
<Yagisan> Sydney
<Yagisan> I'm sure you seen parts of the riots on tv
<lucasvo> :D
<lucasvo> Yagisan: I don't have/want tv
<lucasvo> but I read in the newspapers about it
<Yagisan> lucasvo: that's good. The only thing I use my tv for is for playing my iron chef dvds 
<lucasvo> iron chef?
<lucasvo> Yagisan: what time is it now in sydney?
<Yagisan> lucasvo: I bet the papers are only saying white people are attacking lebanese people
<lucasvo> :D
<spacey_ki> Yagisan, nope
<Yagisan> almost 2am
<spacey_ki> i never watch tv
<spacey_ki> evil box ;p
<lucasvo> exactly
<Yagisan> iron chef is the best show I have ever seen on TV. It's from Japan. The americans made a crap copy called, Iron Chef America
<Yagisan> here we are,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Chef
<spacey_ki> i've seen futurama episode about that :)
<Yagisan> you haven't seen Iron Chef ??
<Yagisan> I've got 18GB of it so far ...
<Yagisan> damm 20GB download quota
<Yagisan> spacey_ki: that's the 30% iron chef episode right ?
<spacey_ki> don't remember:)
<spacey_ki> at least it was funny :)
<spacey_ki> Yagisan, never seen the orginal show
<Yagisan> spacey_ki: where are you ?
<MrMazda> can't run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg because the tty display is too corrupted - how do I screencap the corruption?
<spacey_ki> Yagisan, netherlands
<spacey_ki> its not on tv here :)
<spacey_ki> i'm curious though, can you send me an episode?:D
<MrMazda> lucasvo: are you really /away ?
<Yagisan> MrMazda: how did you corrupt the tty display ?
<MrMazda> using keypad keys
<MrMazda> always does that
<MrMazda> how do I screencap the corruption?
<Yagisan> have you tried typing `clear` no quotes in a console ? (yes it is a dumb question)
<Yagisan> Is x working at all ?
<spacey_ki> restart
<spacey_ki> instead of clear helps
<MrMazda> X works - I'm doing what lucasvo said to report the initial configure bug
<MrMazda> restart what?
<spacey_ki> type it in
<spacey_ki> the terminal
<Yagisan> MrMazda: gimp has a screen capture function
<MrMazda> gimp is X
<MrMazda> this is tty running dpkg-reconfigure
<MrMazda> can't type in clear or restart
<spacey_ki> just type restart and press enter
<spacey_ki> works for me
<spacey_ki> :)
<spacey_ki> even if you can't see it
<Yagisan> MrMazda: please clarify - is this a virtual console, or x-term ?
<jelkner> ogra: do you have time for a question?
<MrMazda> tty[1-6] 
<ogra> jelkner, sure 
<jelkner> i installed sabayon
<ogra> btw, did you already test the flight2 CD ?
<jelkner> no
<MrMazda> restart worked, but then on first need for a cursor key it corrupts again spacey
<jelkner> i can do that monday
<ogra> great 
<jelkner> how do you want me to test it?
<MrMazda> can't get anywhere
<ogra> i'm lagging with the announcement anyway 
<jelkner> just do an install and see if it works?
<ogra> yup
<jelkner> ok, i'll burn it tomorrow and install on monday
<ogra> there are some known issues, i'll point out in the announcement 
<jelkner> i have two test servers to play with
<spacey_ki> MrMazda, try in an X terminal?
<ogra> great :)
<jelkner> any i need to know before testing?
<ogra> dont use different languages ... 
<jelkner> ok
<jelkner> anything else?
<MrMazda> spacey_ki: lucasvo said run in tty, so I exited the X session to run on tty
<ogra> trhere is something wrong with the ubuntu locales onb install, that makes it break if you dont use en_**
<spacey_ki> you can also run it in an X terminal
<MrMazda> anyway, if tty cannot be fixed I give up on ubuntu
<spacey_ki> and restart X after that
<jelkner> ok, i won't do anything with languages
<ogra> the dhcpd needs a new option ... (next-server)
<ogra> else the clients wont boot :/
<jelkner> but speaking of languages, on our breezy boxes we are having great fun with them
<MrMazda> this corruption has been a plague even on the failed edubuntu installs
<MrMazda> ttys just HAVE to work
<jelkner> i'm sitting here at a community center where all the folks speak spanish
<ogra> but i think i'll revert that change to dhcpd for ubuntu ... its evil to introduce breaking changes with minor version upgrades imho
<jelkner> i learned how to use the spanish keyboard
<MrMazda> how do I screencap the corruption on a tty?
<jelkner> and we are all on ubuntu-es chatting
<Yagisan> MrMazda: I have no idea why your tty isn't working.  It works fine on all my headless boxes.
<jelkner> cool!
<ogra> jelkner, we had this topinc several times...
<jelkner> which topic?
<MrMazda> Yagisan: prolly ATI BS
<ogra> .es lang stuff
<MrMazda> only ATI box I have
<ogra> i think you asked about 10 times about it now
<Yagisan> MrMazda: could you try using the vesa framebuffer instead
<jelkner> my apologies
<ogra> :)
<jelkner> i missed it each time ;-)
<jelkner> but i got it now
<MrMazda> Yagisan: kernel line is VGA=290 because VGA=788 failed
<ogra> so tell me about sabayon 
<jelkner> btw. the german teacher in the room before me wants to use the ubuntu lab with her students
<ogra> nice :)
<Yagisan> MrMazda: well, that is a good indication of where the problem lies
<jelkner> i'm planning on asking you if you know some good resources for them?
<jelkner> ok, back to sabayon
<MrMazda> Yagisan: same problem in all Debians, no problem in RPMs
<jelkner> you said you can't use if from the clients
<ogra> yes
<jelkner> can i use if from the server to lock down client users?
<MrMazda> Debian framebuffer is whacko
<ogra> it opens a xnest window, xnest doesnt work through ssh tunnels 
<jelkner> ok, so we should wait on that
<jelkner> yes?
<ogra> but youcan make profiles with it directly on the server desktop
<spacey_ki> only when you create the policy you need to do it on the server itself
<spacey_ki> but if you activite it it works for everything
<jelkner> but what happens on the client when the user tries to change things
<spacey_ki> only the admin thingy needs to be on local box
<ogra> i'm not sure that solveable at all, thats why i said i'm not sure we can include it at ubz
<jelkner> folks are breaking their desktops
<jelkner> accidentally deleting panels and stuff
<ogra> not if you lock down these options
<spacey_ki> jelkner, did you try using sabayon yet?
<jelkner> no, i just installed it
<jelkner> i'm just asking a few high level questions to save time
<jelkner> like, "how should i try it?"
<spacey_ki> i think you should give it a try first :p
<ogra> yes, play with it ...
<jelkner> ok, /me stops asking silly questions and goes off to try it...
<spacey_ki> jelkner, if you can't figure it out after trying just ask back. i still have to fix it up myself. good opportunity
<jelkner> ok
<spacey_ki> anyway i'm out for shopping now before everything closes
<spacey_ki> cya
<ogra> i'm not even sure if we need the xnest stuff... its only for arranging the default desktop setup... the locking down feature doesnt use xnest
<jelkner> cool
<jelkner> first question: how to launch it?
<jelkner> command line only?
<spacey_ki> its in the menu :p
<ogra> its in your system menu
<jelkner> doesn't seem to be in the menu anywhere?
<ogra> "User Profile Editor"
<jelkner> oh, i see
<ogra> i'm still not sure what this icon should represent :)
<ogra> its just a golden swirl
<Yagisan> MrMazda: a quick google doesn't anything that can grab a VGA console.  Try sudo cat /dev/vcs > screendump.txt
<jelkner> oops, i click on "Edit" and get "Xsession: unable to launch "gnome" X session --- "gnome" not found; falling back to default session."
<Yagisan> MrMazda: You will need to put your password in, but it should grab the screen for you
<jelkner> never mind
<jelkner> clicking ok and it started anyway
<ogra> oh, in dapper it silently crashes ...
<ogra> oh, yes, xnest is broken :)
<lucasvo> MrMazda: no not really
<ogra> luckily we have a totally different kernel to debian :)
<ogra> including framebuffer functionallity
<ogra> s/including/especially with the/
<lucasvo> ogra: how about a powerbutton in ldm?
<ogra> lucasvo, sure :)
<ogra> but i have more important tasks ..
<lucasvo> ogra: is it working from bzr?
<ogra> ??
<ogra> a powerbutton from bzr ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: no, a working powerbutton in ldm from bzr source
<ogra> sure ...
<lucasvo> ogra: how can I install it?
<ogra> oh, you mean if its added in my bzr repo ? nope
<lucasvo> ah
<lucasvo> ogra: so there isn't any written code for now?
<jelkner> ogra: no one can log in to the edubuntu server
<ogra> as i said, i have otherpriorities, ldm powerbutton is only on my nice to have list
<lucasvo> ogra: hm, ok
<ogra> jelkner, look if the sshkeys are right
<lucasvo> ogra: what are other priorities?
<ogra> (or existing at all)
<jelkner> i tried restarting dhcp, which had died, but it still isn't working
<ogra> lucasvo, my specs ...
<lucasvo> ogra: launchpad?
<ogra> jelkner, dhcpd has nothing to do with it.... as long as the clients boot, tftp, dhcp and nfs are fine
<ogra> no need to look there
<MrMazda> how do I eradicate graphical boot?
<jelkner> which log file should i look in?
<ogra> jelkner, just look for the sshkeys ...
<ogra> no logfile needed
<jelkner> where?
<ogra> where you looked the last times you had this ...
<ogra> wait
<lucasvo> I like the obsolete: EdubuntuUserManagement  ( Oliver Grawert)
<ogra> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts
<jelkner> ok i need to take notes this time ;-)
<ogra> jelkner, ^^^ look if the current server ip shows up there
<ogra> if not, run: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys 
<ogra> then try to log in again
<ogra> lucasvo, yes, thats obsoleted by the network user management spec that goes into ubuntu anyway (but dapper+1 for the server side)
<lucasvo> I will probably buy a new server for my ltsp, I am thinking off 2x Opteron Dual Core, will there be any problems with ltsp?
<lucasvo> Is it working with current dapper?
<ogra> not with dapper
<ogra> yup
<lucasvo> so the multiarch support is fully included by now?
<ogra> its not working with breezy ... you need the multiarch patch from Yagisan that already is included in dapper
<ogra> yup
<lucasvo> and what about flash etc. ?
<lucasvo> binary drivers? for e.g. nvidia?
<ogra> thats nothing i can solve, ask macromedia :)
<lucasvo> but is it possible to run firefox under 32bit?
<lucasvo> how about multicore + ubuntu is it working well?
<lucasvo> or is it overpowered for ubuntu?
<ogra> not at all
<ogra> multicore and smp are fine ...
<ogra> for 32bit apps you'll need to build a chroot etc ... 
<lucasvo> waaa
<ogra> there are debian docs for that ...
<lucasvo> ok, I think I can live without flash
<ogra> its really only flash thats missing...
<lucasvo> what else is closed source in ubuntu?
<lucasvo> ah, ok
<ogra> java for amd64 is fine, as well as all other stuff
<ogra> nvidia/ati ...
<ogra> but we'll wipe all binary drivers for the thin clients anyway
<lucasvo> I don't have a 64bit thinclient :D
<ogra> heh
<MrMazda> [4294880.753000]  atkbd.c: Unknown key pressed (translated set 2, code 0xaa on isa0060/serio0).
<lucasvo> or what do you mean?
<lucasvo> MrMazda: that happens when you press shift+page up for example
<MrMazda> Yagisan: that's one line of corruption I typed in
<ogra> dropping of the binary drivers has nothing to do with 64bit
<lucasvo> ogra: where will the binarydrivers be dropped?
<jelkner> ogra: no one can log in now
<lucasvo> ogra: on the server or in the chroot?
<ogra> thats a keycode your kernel doesnt know about ... multimedia keys for example
<jelkner> i tried sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<MrMazda> lucasvo: draws a different screen
<ogra> jelkner, did you look in the file 
<MrMazda> still messed up
<MrMazda> even on restart with vga=normal
<ogra> lucasvo, in the chroot
<lucasvo> ogra: aha, ok
<jelkner> yes, but what am i looking for?
<ogra> <ogra> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts
<ogra> <jelkner> ok i need to take notes this time ;-)
<ogra> <ogra> jelkner, ^^^ look if the current server ip shows up there
<ogra> <ogra> if not, run: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys 
<jelkner> i did
<jelkner> and i also restarted the client
<ogra> was anything in there ?
<jelkner> in the file?
<jelkner> a lot is there
<jelkner> but i don't know what specifically i'm looking for
<ogra>  <ogra> jelkner, ^^^ look if the current server ip shows up there
<jelkner> ahh
<agente87> hi everyon
<MrMazda> doesn't matter what my vga= line has on it, always cursor keys flood the ttys with those error messages
<jelkner> yes, it shows up several times
<jelkner> the server has two ips
<jelkner> they both show up
<jelkner> and the hostname edubuntu as well
<ogra> jelkner, several times is wrong 
<ogra> empty the file, run the update sshkeys command again...
<jelkner> ok
<ogra> it should show up one time as ip and one time with name
<ogra> how often did you run the update command already  ?
<lucasvo> hi agente87 !
<agente87> hi lucas
<agente87> how do you do?
<lucasvo> well, and you?
<lucasvo> agente87: how about your edubuntu installation?
<lucasvo> ogra: could one just mount /home/ over nfs? 
<ogra> sure
<lucasvo> agente87: maybe you could do this
<agente87> i have made a shared folder
<ogra> just add it in the servers fstab .... indeed you need a nfs server from where you mount it
<lucasvo> agente87: I would suggest you install edubuntu-desktop on every client and mount /home/ over nfs
<ogra> err ? 
<lucasvo> agente87: you mean on winXP?
<ogra> why would you install anything on the client ? 
<agente87> nop, on edubuntu
<lucasvo> agente87: ah, over the gui?
<agente87> the gui?
<lucasvo> ogra: because they have too powerful clients and too weak server
<lucasvo> power of server = power of client
<jelkner> ok, there are 6 entries now
<ogra> so you dont want ltsp, but netbooting clients ...
<jelkner> 2 each for edubuntu, 192.168.0.140, and 192.168.1.254
<lucasvo> ogra: this would be good as well
<jelkner> one ssh-rsa and one ssh-dss
<ogra> jelkner, thats fine then 
<ogra> jelkner, make sure the ssh server is running any try to log in
<lucasvo> ogra: did you get my query? 
<ogra> nope
<agente87> in my school, teachers don't want edubuntu
<lucasvo> ogra: hm, ok
<lucasvo> ogra: so I didn't register my nick
<ogra> are your registered ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: no
<ogra> ah
<ogra> do it then
<ogra> agente87, why ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: what's the name of the register bot?
<ogra> try /msg nickserv help
<agente87> i'm trying to make them prove edubuntu
<agente87> but they say they don't have time, it's new, you know
<ogra> but why dont they want it ? 
<ogra> ah
<ogra> :) fear the new :)
<agente87> yes;-D
<lucasvo> I don't know my nick pw anymore
<agente87> why must i use a shared /home/ folder?
<jelkner> ogra: we are in a lab with 7 terminals (one directly on the server)
<jelkner> 3 users are logged in
<jelkner> and have been all morning
<jelkner> no new users can log in on any of the remaining workstations
<jelkner> i've tried restarting ssh
<lucasvo> ogra: do you know how I can reset my pw?
<ogra> hmmm, no idea what that is ...
<ogra> lucasvo, nope
<lucasvo> crap
<agente87> nop
<ogra> jelkner, thats an info you should have given before you said nobody can log in
<agente87> lucasvo: why should i use a shared /home folder?
<lucasvo> ah now it works
<lucasvo> agente87: that all the users have their own homedir on every client
<lucasvo> workstation
<jelkner> ogra: ok
<agente87> ok, like active desktop in windows
<jelkner> so, now that i have (late, i understand), what next?
<ogra> no idea ...
<lucasvo> ogra: could one use netboot with pxe?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> thats what ltsp does :)
<agente87> i'm trying to get some Pentiums 100 to make a classroom with ltsp
<agente87> it's too complicated? i have just begin with linux
<agente87> it's too complicated? i have just begun with linux
<ogra> nope, not complicated at all 
<lucasvo> agente87: the only problem will be the weak server
<jelkner> ogra: but it looks like we've hit some edubuntu bugs
<jelkner> shouldn't we investigate?
<jelkner> i could try rebooting the server
<agente87> i have spoken with my director and he will buy some ram
<jelkner> and let you know what happens
<MrMazda> lucasvo: I'm not gonna file a bug on the HorizSync/VertRefresh because that original xorg.conf works OK since I've updated everything
* jelkner is about to reboot the server...
<lucasvo> MrMazda: ok
<MrMazda> too many such bugs already, and most dupes or fixed
<lucasvo> MrMazda: mine hasn't been fixed so far
<lucasvo> MrMazda: I had exactly the same probelm
<MrMazda> still the console corruption problem is huge
<lucasvo> MrMazda: you mean the unknown key messages?
<MrMazda> doesn't matter which vga= I use, always unknown key messages
<MrMazda> tty corruption == unknown key messages
<lucasvo> MrMazda: maybe it is a wrong keyboard driver?
<MrMazda> I tried asking in #kubuntu, but that place is all noise
<lucasvo> exactly
<lucasvo> and ubuntu as well
<ogra> MrMazda, note that the keycode errors are totally unrelated to the vga= setting 
<MrMazda> obviously
<ogra> they are two different things in the kernel ...
<MrMazda> how do I eradicate the graphical boot?
<ogra> you mean usplash ? 
<MrMazda> whatever it is that keeps the text messages away
<ogra> just remove the splash keywoprd from the kernel line 
<MrMazda> with other kernels/other distros, splash=0 or nosplash was the method, but they don't work here :-p
<jsgotangco> hey
<lucasvo> .w 12
<lucasvo> sorry
<jsgotangco> ogra, do you have any knowledge on limitations of distribution about our pressed cds?
<ogra> we dont even have agreement that we'll get pressed CDs yet
<jsgotangco> ogra, sorry i was supposed to say ubuntu cds in general
<jsgotangco> ogra, what i mean is for situations like this http://www.ebay.ph/viItem?ItemId=5841560525
<ogra> hmm, nope, i'm not working with the shipit team ... ask marilize, kiko or silbs if you can catch them on irc
<jsgotangco> yep
<ogra> heh
<ogra> how much are PHP 250 ?
<ogra> in euro or $ ?
<jsgotangco> $1USD = P50
<ogra> so its $5 ? 
<jsgotangco> roughly
<ogra> i dont think anybody really cares 
<jsgotangco> because i wouldn't like to see a situation where people here ask for CDs and sell for something like that
<jsgotangco> when they can just ask me for one
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> we
<jsgotangco> we'll see
<jsgotangco> =)
<ogra> indeed, if you have the sparetime, monitor the auction and offer them to do so ...
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> or point them to shipit 
<lucasvo> *lol*
<lucasvo> courtesy of OSdir.com
<MrMazda> ogra: thx :)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> i would have told you earlier, but didnt know waht your problem was :)
<MrMazda> nfs mount takes WAY to long :(
<ogra> yup, agreed
<ogra> will be fixed in dapper
<ogra> funnily it takes 3times as long at first boot... the second boot works like a charm ...
<ogra> i havent found the root of the prob yet ...
<MrMazda> it's really bad in single, since there is no network in single
<jelkner> ogra: oliver, i don't know if sabayon had anything to do with it, but i removed sabayon, we rebooted the server, and we can log in again
<MrMazda> takes forever to time out
<MrMazda> I forgot noauto in FSTAB
<lucasvo> MrMazda: you mean ntp date?
<lucasvo> MrMazda: ah nfs
<ogra> jelkner, since you did it both at th same time i cant tell  you either
<MrMazda> mount -t nfs
<jsgotangco> hey jelkner 
<MrMazda> portmap: server localhost not responding
<jelkner> ogra: i understand, not good testing proceedure, but we are in a training session and need things to work
<ogra> yup
<MrMazda> RPC: failed to contact portmap
<jelkner> i'll test more in another environment later
<lucasvo> MrMazda: /etc/init.d/portmap start
<ogra> + sudo  ;)
<lucasvo> ogra: sudo su && ...
<ogra> bah
<MrMazda>  bash: /etc/init.d/portmap: No such file or directory
<ogra> ugh 
<ogra> how did you install your system ? 
<MrMazda> "workstation" from CD boot
<MrMazda> IIRC
<lucasvo> MrMazda: edubuntu? kubuntu?
<MrMazda> mebbe that was edubutu
<ogra> ah, ok, that doesnt install any server parts
<MrMazda> kubuntu
<ogra> kubuntu has no workstation install
<MrMazda> kubuntu is the problem ATM
<ogra> that unique in edubuntu
<MrMazda> well than I didn't
<lucasvo> MrMazda: exactly
<MrMazda> well then I didn't
<MrMazda> ;-)
<ogra> since edubuntu defaults to a server install, we included this option
<MrMazda> the nfs mounts finally finished
<ogra> no other ubuntu has it
<lucasvo> MrMazda: you need portmap
<ogra> but you need portmap installed on a nfs server ...
<MrMazda> nfs mount means nfs client
<ogra> there you dont need anything ...
<MrMazda> so why the delay mounting?
<ogra> i thought you talk about ltsp ...
<ogra> it doesnt happen in normal ubuntu nfs mounts
* MrMazda bets the problem is the missing options
<ogra> what kind of server do you run ? 
<a-865> just this Mandriva 2006 box
<ogra> might be a misconfiguration on the server ...
<MrMazda> nah, works fine for everything else
<lucasvo> MrMazda: nfs on another client?
<lucasvo> MrMazda: so you installed mandriva on you daughters pc?
<ogra> mounting nfs shares between 2 ubuntu boxes takes milliseconds here 
<ogra> up to 1-2 seconds over 5Mbit wlan ...
<lucasvo> :(
<lucasvo> I have my wlan
<lucasvo> *hate
<lucasvo> it is stupid
<lucasvo> slow
<ogra> wokrs fine here ...
<ogra> yes, thats true ... 
<lucasvo> ogra: I have it over 3 storeys
<ogra> but thats a HW limitation
<lucasvo> exactly
<lucasvo> and money
<lucasvo> and law limitation
<ogra> law ?
<lucasvo> 100mW?
<ogra> s/law/health/ ?
<lucasvo> I mean limitation by law
<lucasvo> no law
<lucasvo> maybe law is because of health
<ogra> i wouldnt want something with >100Mw on my lap ...
<lucasvo> jup
<ogra> and boil my guts ...
<jsgotangco> even your nuts
<ogra> heh
<lucasvo> that's why I will soon have fibre
<ogra> wireless fibre ? 
<ogra> i.e. a lightbulb ? 
<ogra> :)
<lucasvo> ogra: ronja.twibright.com is exactly what you mean
<lucasvo> ogra: but I will use ordinary fibre
<ogra> ah, yes, i once worked with such a laser driven system...
<ogra> but thats bad in snow etc ...
<ogra> if you can put the link on the roof, i prefer a yagi anteanna and wlan ...
<lucasvo> it is not laser only lled
<a-865> noauto,ro,nosuid,soft,rsize=8192,wsize=8192 instead of defaults,noauto didn't help ogra 
<ogra> even worse in bad waehter
<ogra> which kernel does mandriva use ? 
<Yagisan> did someone say yagi ?
<ogra> there were issues in older 2.6 versions ... try setting the framesizes to 1048
<ogra> err
<jsgotangco> antennae
<ogra> 2048
<jsgotangco> =)
<lucasvo> ogra: I am a ronja developer...
<a-865> 2.6.12 here
* Yagisan tries to imagine himself as an antenna
<MrMazda> on all my other boxen 8192 works fine
<MrMazda> portmap is missing from system services :-p
<ogra> in mandriva ? 
<ogra> thats odd
<MrMazda> no, kubuntu
<ogra> sure 
<ogra> as long as you dont use it as a server, you wont have such evil stuff installed
<MrMazda> either I install it, or some different distro
<ogra> you dont need protmap on the client side
<MrMazda> every linux in this building is a nfs server
<MrMazda> samba sux
<ogra> so install nfs-kernel-server and be happy 
<ogra> it will install portmap alongside 
<ogra> but nbote that ubuntu has a policy of no open ports by default for security reasons ... so server stuff has to be instaled manually in a default ubuntu 
<MrMazda> now it wants the @#$#$ CD o_O
<lucasvo> MrMazda: edit your /etc/apt/sources.list
<ogra> sure
<ogra> if you didnt run synaptic to add other sources
<lucasvo> MrMazda: and add # to the first line
<MrMazda> I added sources yesterday
<ogra> with synaptic ? 
<MrMazda> with adept
<ogra> it comments the Cd entry if you add network sources
<ogra> lol
<ogra> adept
<MrMazda> inept
<ogra> the first packaging tool with bugzilla interface
<ogra> the search functions look and feel like a bugzilla ....
<ogra> the ksynaptic UI was far beyond ... but sucked in the backend ...
<ogra> thats an area where kubuntu really needs improvement ...
<ivan> i have Transmetta processor. can I make kernel?
<ogra> on the server or the thin clients ? 
<MrMazda> installing nfs0=-kernel-server got rid of the problem
<MrMazda> installing nfs-kernel-server got rid of the problem ogra 
<MrMazda> wierd, system services says portmap starts at boot but isn't running :-p
<MrMazda> same for nfs-kernel-server and nfs-common o_O
<lucasvo> ogra: how many clients can one run over 10mbit?
<ogra> MrMazda, is that updated from hoary ? 
<MrMazda> no, CD install last night
<a-865> not running, but mounted here :-p
<ogra> lucasvo, there are numbers at ltsp.org anywhere
<ogra> nfs-kernel-server only starts with proper /etc/exports ...
<MrMazda> system services applet seems totally bogus
<ogra> works fine here 
<MrMazda> won't let me disable pcmcia
<MrMazda> or anything else
<MrMazda> or tell me stuff that's running is running
<ogra> but you run it woth sudo, yes ? 
<MrMazda> run what
<ogra> services-admin
<ogra> what else ? 
<ogra> we dont have anything else in edubuntu for services
<MrMazda> all I did was click system services
<MrMazda> this is kubuntu
<ogra> so please ask in -kubuntu about it
<ogra> #kubuntu
<MrMazda> that place is a hopeless pile of noise
<ogra> we're edubuntu here
<ogra> and dont use KDE apart from kdeedu
* jsgotangco remembers something about idiot users heh
<ogra> in #kubuntu ? 
<jsgotangco> no a certain osdl thread...
<jsgotangco> hehe
<MrMazda> both #kubuntu and #unbuntu are noise jungles
<ogra> heh
<ogra> MrMazda, but this is exclusively for edubuntu here ... please treat it ike that 
<MrMazda> I tried to install edubuntu yesterday 3 times but had to give up and do kubuntu
<ogra> i'm fine with helping for edubuntu related stuff ... 
<ogra> but my time is limited and i'm not willing to do Riddells work ... 
<MrMazda> freespace on / is 473212 - Is that enuf for add the edu package?
<ogra> edubuntu-desktop ? 
<ogra> nope
<ogra> as i said, you need a min amount of2.6Gb
<MrMazda> until I stumble on a bigger disk for the kid's puter that's all there is
<ogra> about 1-200MB less if yu dont have the server stuff installed
<MrMazda> web site sys req doc should say how much is really required
<MrMazda> I wouldn't have tried otherwise
<ogra> it will
<ogra> but its easy to compute from the ubuntu sizes ...
<MrMazda> mebbe I can steal some space from doze for /home and use the whole #2 HD for edubuntu
<ogra> ubuntu itself needs at least 2.2-2.4 GB 
<ogra> you could resize the win partition
<ogra> with gparted from the liveCD
<lucasvo> MrMazda: delete /home and mount /home over nfs
<MrMazda> the 7G doze partition is only 44% used
<ogra> but your /home is not the problem, the apps are installed in /
<lucasvo> MrMazda: so delete doze
<MrMazda> too soon for that
<MrMazda> lotta stuff there
* ogra goes off for a while
<MrMazda> ogra: I'm gonna just get rid of separate /home for now and give edubuntu the whole  HD
<MrMazda> I can deal with separate /home some other time
<lucasvo> MrMazda: and after you have been convinced by the power of edubuntu you can get rid of windoze
<MrMazda> mebbe, but I still don't like Gnome. Kid prolly won't know difference though
<lucasvo> MrMazda: yes
<lucasvo> MrMazda: and you will learn to love gnome
* MrMazda doubts that
<MrMazda>  /hates lack of customizability & dumbing down
* MrMazda hates lack of customizability & dumbing down
<jsgotangco> gconf
<lucasvo> another linux
<MrMazda> fingers need a rest :-p
<lucasvo> MrMazda: it is not dumbing down
<lucasvo> MrMazda: it is just showing only the things one uses often
<MrMazda> I've hated Gnome ugliness since I first saw it in 1998
<lucasvo> MrMazda: do you think it is still ugly?
<MrMazda> not as bad, but still less fun than KDE
<lucasvo> kde is ugly bloatware
<lucasvo> :D
<ivan> I propose edubuntu for city school. Here we discuss only tech or I can to get help in educaction?
<jsgotangco> hey no desktop flames here
<lucasvo> ivan: both
<jsgotangco> do it in ubuntu-offtopic
<MrMazda> I think the kid's puter's PS is toast :-(
<MrMazda> won't turn back on
<lucasvo> PS?
<MrMazda> power supply
<MrMazda> did that several times yesterday too
<lucasvo> aha
<lucasvo> ivan: what's the schools infrastructure?
<ivan> I propose edubuntu for 100 schools in my city
<MrMazda> took it back upstairs and it started right up :-p
<MrMazda> gonna try gparted then add the edu package
<lucasvo> ivan: cool
<lucasvo> ivan: that's awesome
<lucasvo> ivan: where?
<ivan> in Samara in Russia. 
<MrMazda> lucasvo: FWIW, I use SeaMonkey rather than Firefox due to the missing features in FF
<MrMazda> I like lotsa choices
<ivan> Do use anybody  edubuntu in school for study math or phusic?
<lucasvo_> ivan: there are some applications for math and physics
<lucasvo_> kmplot for e.g.
<ivan> Yes, i know. But I interesting how use in class? How method? May be it is strange questions for West, but in East we have to plan.
<lucasvo_> ivan: we dont use pc in class for now...
<lucasvo_> at our school
<ivan> It's strange. On our TV and in the our newspaper we see many west school with many pc.
<ivan> The Rissia goverment plan to use pc in the school
<ivan> In 2006 more 10 000 pc will be install in the schools for education
* Yagisan blinks at clock, 5am, better get to bed. Goodnight all
<MrMazda> @#$@#$ vfat checker in the installer
<MrMazda> always finds errors scandisk can't
<Lord_Athur> I use a lot the bash shell, can I change its default colours?
<Lord_Athur> for example: when I put dir I'd like to see the folders of a colour(red) :P
<Lord_Athur> is this possible?
<MrMazda> o_O http://www.google.com/linux?num=30&hl=en&lr=lang_en&q=site%3Aedubuntu.com+ltsp&btnG=Search
<MrMazda> where the heck is the definition of LTSP hiding?
<MrMazda> why does the site map on edubuntu.com take you to the ubuntu.com site map?
* MrMazda waves to mhz
<mhz> MrMazda: hey there
<mhz> so, KDE it is?
<MrMazda> was
<MrMazda> repartitioned, installing edubuntu again
<MrMazda> qtparted wouldn't work
<MrMazda> so started from scratch
<mhz> oh, I never used it. I always used cfdisk (command line)
<MrMazda> I wanted to delete /home and enlarge /
<MrMazda> it wouldn't let me do anything with /
<ogra> MrMazda, used a liveCd as i advised before ? 
<MrMazda> livecd I had was Knoppix with qtparted
<ogra> uuh, knoppix ...
<ogra> isnt that fully 2.4 based ? 
<MrMazda> 2.6.11 IIRC, v4.0
<ogra> ah, then i wonder why it didnt work
<MrMazda> new ver every 4 months or so
<MrMazda> blocked the target partition, no idea why
<ogra> gparted on the ubuntu livecd is proven to work with all ext* partitions as well as with most win based partitions
<MrMazda> lotta stuff in Knoppix is like tht
<Hemet_Ka> how can i open squashfs files? 
<ogra> since its only a frontend to parted, i guess qtparted would work as well ..
<mhz> MrMazda: did you try latest DamnSamllLinux?
<MrMazda> no
<ogra> Hemet_Ka, where in edubuntu do you use squashfs ? 
<mhz> DSL is a very nice and small livecd that lets you do plenty
<Hemet_Ka> ogra, I'm trying to open a file of a CD
<mhz> MrMazda: however, i do not remember exactly about its partition system (again, cfdisk is simple and very efective)
<ogra> Hemet_Ka, an iso ? 
<ogra> you can just loop mount it
<MrMazda> Corel, Caldera, RedHat, Knoppix, Fedora, SuSE, Mandrake, Mandriva, Xandros all I ever used b4 trying edubuntu/kubuntu yesterday
<mhz> MrMazda: iirc DSL is about 50 MB only  and its gui is prety cool
<MrMazda> AFAIK, cfdisk cannot resize
<ogra> nope, it cannot
<Hemet_Ka> ogra, it's a file put in a live cd
<mhz> MrMazda: maybe right
<mhz> MrMazda: but i doubt you have info already there, do you?
<ogra> Hemet_Ka, no idea, and there is no edubuntu liveCD yet ...
<MrMazda> I do all my partitioning with http://www.dfsee.com/ but it won't resize ext2
<mhz> MrMazda: why you chose ext2 over 3?
<MrMazda> same difference
<ogra> yes, that an intresting choice
<MrMazda> same difference in the partition tables
<MrMazda> ogra: what?
<ogra> choosing ext2 over 3
<Hemet_Ka> ogra, I'm using edubuntu, but the live cd is of necromantux
<ogra> ah
<MrMazda> ext3 is ext3
<MrMazda> ext3 is ext2
<mhz> ohh, hehehe, I always endup doing mkfs.ext3 :)
<ogra> Hemet_Ka, but still, there is no method i know 
<Hemet_Ka> :S
<Hemet_Ka> anyway.. thanks ogra and bye
<ogra> he should probably use squashfs-tools :)
<MrMazda>  /boot -> ext2; / -> ext3
<MrMazda> same type 83 for both in the tables
<ogra> wohoo ... i can read out the phonebook of my razr v3 :)
<ogra> time to write a gui app :)
<mhz> ogra: what's that?
<ogra> my mobile ...
<mhz> a mobile 
<mhz> ok
<ogra> a very recent motorola
<mhz> nice
<mhz> bluetooth?
<ogra> and you can just access it via imple AT commands 
<ogra> *simple
<ogra> bluetooth too...
<mhz> cool
<ogra> but i was only playing with the usb cable for now
* mhz envys other people can just say... "oh, i'll write an interface"
<ogra> at+mpbf="Mauricio Hernandez" would just show me all data about you in my phone ...
<mhz> nice!
<ogra> including mailadress, address, and all known numbers
<mhz> what if that also shows you the logs  about calls and calendars and to do?
<mhz> all that regarding Mauricio Hernandez, of course
<ogra> if i find the way pumping data *into* the phone, i can just send my evolution addressbook, including IM data (there is a jabber blient for this phone)
<mhz> cool!
<ogra> but anyway,just a pet project ... typically for never being finished ;)
<mhz> I whish evolution could have 'threaded' calendars, tasks and addressbooks
<mhz> ogra: hehehe inded
<ogra> even more cool would be bluetooth acces, registering an alsa device and being able to use a headset attached to my lappie to use the phone ...
<crimsun> need a bit more robust bt support in ALSA first
<MrMazda> edub sure takes a long time to install
<mhz> ogra, ogra, ogra... a real cool pet project could be to have a gui install for Moin :D
<mhz> ogra: have you seen kjcole?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> he mailed me some bzr questions...
<ogra> but we havent met
<mhz> :(
<mhz> me neither
* mhz is making his custom
<MrMazda> mount: unknown filesystem type: nfs :(
<MrMazda> ogra: u there? install done, and badly
<ogra> but you read the docs as advised in the topic ? 
<MrMazda> day or two ago
<ogra> and follwed it ? 
<MrMazda> can't remember it all after 7 installs
<ogra> whats wrong with the install ? 
<MrMazda> no X, corrupt consoles, no nfs
<ogra> hmm, what did you do ? youre the first person reporting probs there 
<MrMazda> kubuntu had no problem configuring usable X without any help
<ogra> its the same configuration tool 
<MrMazda> I dunno, that's what happened
<ogra> apart from the desktop all ubuntus are 100% identical
<MrMazda> without nfs can't get logs onto server to upload for anyone to look at
<ogra> so only if you did soemthing that broke the install thic could happen
<ogra> have you seen any errors ? 
<MrMazda> EE stuff in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<ogra> nope, i mean during the install ...
<MrMazda> I wasn't looking the whole 2 hours
<ogra> it should run cleanly until it starts X in the end of the process
<ogra> with a reboot in the middle
<MrMazda> maybe it doesn't like me interrupting that in order to put my bootloader back the way it found it?
<MrMazda> rude to not ask me where to put bootloader
<ogra> oh, so you didnt use the default install 
<MrMazda> tried workstation install
<ogra> thats fine ...
<MrMazda> isn't there some installation log somewhere?
<ogra> then your install is 100% identical with kubuntu, except that gnoem is installed instead of kde, i wonder what happened there
<ogra> sure, in 7var/lo7onstaller and /var/log/base-config
<ogra> GRRRR
<ogra> /var/log/istaller
<ogra> *installer
<ogra> sorry, its very late here
<MrMazda> I got apt configured with universe and installed mc
<ogra> post install ? 
<MrMazda> yes
<ogra> thats fine ...
<MrMazda> but why no nfs?
<ogra> but the broken install is what bothers me... also 2h are *very* unusual
<MrMazda> I thought that was in kernel?
<ogra> nope, its modular, but gets auoloaded 
<ogra> by hotplug ...
<ogra> as all modules are
<ogra> which CD did you use ? 
<MrMazda> en 5.10 edubuntu
<ogra> the 5.10 release ? or a daily from the de release 
<ogra> *dev
<MrMazda> 13 Oct
<ogra> hmm,  never saw anyone having probs with it ...
<MrMazda> my birthday
<ogra> oh, then you have on the same day as our CTO :)
<MrMazda> 54 years later
<ogra> sure ? 
<ogra> so you are in the 70s ?
<MrMazda> ?
<MrMazda> 1951
<ogra> ah
<ogra> he is something like 27 or 28 years old ....
<MrMazda> Kubunto Official Release 13 Oct, right?
<ogra> so 54+27 would be quite old ;)
<MrMazda> Edubuntu Official Release 13 Oct, right?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> same base, different desktop
<MrMazda> I could install kubuntu again, than add the edu pkg
<ogra> thats what i mean, its pretty unusual that you have probs there ...
<MrMazda> all because qtparted wouldn't let me resize
<ogra> since the X server/autodetection etc are 100% the same
<MrMazda> I'll go try one more time
<MrMazda> if that doesn't work, back to SuSE
<ogra> hmm :/
<lucasvo> SuSE was good, but isn't anymore
<ogra> did anything change with the HW between kubuntu and this install ? 
<MrMazda> works for me
<lucasvo> I havn't tried opensuse
<MrMazda> just moved the box downstairs then back upstairs
<ogra> yes, but i would be sad to loose a user ..
<MrMazda> leaving mc out of a base install is one strike to start with, and console non-working is strike 2; only save is tty works OK in runlevel 1
<lucasvo> exactly
<ogra> different monitor ?
<MrMazda> nope
<MrMazda> identical
<MrMazda> debians always give me headaches rpms don't
<ogra> hmm, so why did X detection work in kubuntu but not in edubuntu then :/
<MrMazda> had Xandros mostly working
<MrMazda> Xandros was mostly nice, but it too has broken ttys
<ogra> i never saw xandros ...
<MrMazda> upstairs I used a different USB mouse
<ogra> hmm....
<MrMazda> same one that worked with kubuntu
<ogra> could you try with the same HW you used in kubuntu ? 
<MrMazda> it IS the same
<ogra> especially the WS install should be a no brainer ..
<MrMazda> except
<ogra> answer 10 questions and just wait till its finished ... no rocket sience ...
<MrMazda> I think I typed in 'linux workstation vga=788' instead of just workstation
<ogra> ah
<ogra> that might have broken it ...
<ogra> just use workstation
<lucasvo> any thoughts of using graphical installation?
<ogra> did you use such a string with kubuntu ? 
<MrMazda> there is one?
<ogra> nope
<MrMazda> don't remember what I started kubuntu with
<MrMazda> prolly just enter
<ogra> dapper will have the ubuntu express installer ...
<MrMazda> dapper needs to ask where I want boot loader
<lucasvo> ogra: what is ubuntu express installer?
<ogra> so we will stop sending out install CD through shipit and ship only the liveCD with ubuntu/kubuntu express
<lucasvo> ah, cool
<ogra> saves 50% of money
<MrMazda> I'm gonna go start again with just workstation
<lucasvo> ogra: I was thinking about asking to include such a function to dapper
<ogra> MrMazda, thanks :)
<ogra> lucasvo, it was long planned ...
<lucasvo> ogra: guess great minds are similar
<lucasvo> :D
<ogra> we already planned it at the sydney conference for breezy ... but switching to gcc4 and modular X took to long in breezy 
<ogra> so there was no time left for development
<ogra> and i was planned for the gui stuff in the beginning, before i suddenly got edubuntu assigned 3 months before release date ...
<ogra> so i had no time at all to work on it and had to care for building edubuntu instead ...
<lucasvo> I think this has more priority
<lucasvo> what about yast, I am quite surprised, yast didn't gain popularity when it became oss
<ogra> because its crap
<ogra> MrMazda is right, suse once was a very nice distro ...
<ogra> then they invented yast2  ...
<ogra> nd stopped doing things right ... which they did before 
* lucasvo remembers when he was 7 and was looking at his neighbours screen running an xterm and yast 
<ogra> i remember the first suse i saw ... 
<ogra> it was 14 floppys and basicly a slackware with added value :)
<lucasvo> :D
<lucasvo> when I first saw it there was already a CD
<ogra> i decided to go with the *real* slackware back then ....
<ogra> and was very soon forced to use debian by my job ...
<lucasvo> my friend had a linux from scratch but now he doesn't have time anymore next to work
<MrMazda> ogra: copying from CD ...
<ogra> great :)
<MrMazda> other distros I usually do FTP installs
<ogra> other distros also come on 20 CDs ;)
<MrMazda> or 7 or 8 or 5 or 3 :)
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> yes :)
<ogra> we have either a DVD (with all supported software) or the CD ...
<ogra> putting all 17000 packages on media would result in about 5 stuffed DVDs
<ogra> or even more ...
<MrMazda> I bought the SuSE 10 box, came with no manual, made me very mad
<ogra> if the distro is good enough to need no manual, thats fine imho ...
<MrMazda> need some manual every now and then
<ogra> i agree with stallman in this point ... a real perfect software is good enough to need a manual ...
<MrMazda> my last too old for udev and 2.6 kernels
<ogra> sadly there is no real perfect software in this world *G*
<MrMazda> sure there is, OS/2 :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> a bit outdated though ...
<ogra> did you try the new version ? 
<ogra> they released something this year iirc
<MrMazda> kernel I'm running is 3 months old
<MrMazda> 849,262 bytes
<MrMazda> doesn't limit me to 15 SATA partitions either
<ogra> i dont even have 15 partitions in use ...
<ogra> nowhere 
<MrMazda> http://www.ecomstation.com/
<MrMazda> this disk has about 40
<a-865> this also has about 40
<ogra> but what for ? 
<MrMazda> FIFO
<MrMazda> backup
<MrMazda> lotsa smalls
<ogra> the ecomstation gui somewhat reminds me on amiga ...
<MrMazda> I've preordered 2.0
<MrMazda> the OS/2 WPS is why people stay instead of switching
<MrMazda> IBM moved the primary OS/2 kernel hacker onto Linux 1 Dec, so the future is not bright
<ogra> why ? he could enhance linux with os/2 features :)
<MrMazda> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.os2.bugs/msg/1ee73f8bbddfac18?hl=en&
<ogra> yes, but he's agreat mind, so it will get linux forward ... the OS/2 business is a dead end as long as ibm doesnt want to invest there
<MrMazda> The eCS people want to eventually have the OS/2 desktop working on BSD or something like that
<MrMazda> people aren't web to OS/2, only its WPS
<MrMazda> people aren't wed to OS/2, only its WPS
<ogra> yes, but still, there is no business model behind it anymore ... as long as nobody pays, it will die or idle around in slow development
<ogra> as BSD it will become a niche product ...
<MrMazda> so how long should a edubuntu WS install take anyway?
<MrMazda> been about 20 min since start
<ogra> less than 1h on recent HW
<MrMazda> not recent
<MrMazda> PIII-350
<ogra> so around 1h then
<ogra> its a question of disk/CD speed
<ogra> not the CPU
<MrMazda> CD prolly only 4X
<MrMazda> mebbe 8X
<ogra> ah, k then it migh take longer 
<MrMazda> another FTP install advantage - don't need fast readers
#edubuntu 2005-12-23
<MrMazda> don't hafta buy blanks
<ogra> but you need internet access 
<MrMazda> true
<ogra> my boss is african ;) 
<MrMazda> POTS?
<ogra> there its hard to get even power, forget about more than a phoneline to go online ...
<lucasvo> MrMazda: internetaccess (dsl) costs 50 bucks a month, this is fare more expansive than 1 blank for 1 $
<MrMazda> I hear DSL in parts of Europe cheaper than POTS
<lucasvo> yes it is
<ogra> i pay about 10 for the line and about 20 for the flatrate ...
<lucasvo> in CH for e.g.
<MrMazda> lucky
<lucasvo> I pay 50 for flatrate + Line
<MrMazda> I pay $42 US total/mo
<ogra> could be cheaper if i wouldnt live in the middle of nowhere
<MrMazda> cabul, not DSL
<MrMazda> pretty fast
<lucasvo> cityflat :D
<lucasvo> MrMazda: how fast?
<ogra> cable is great if you dont have millions of users on one line
<lucasvo> I have 600kbit up 150 kbit down
<MrMazda> CD takes less than 40 minute download
<MrMazda> unless server slow
<ogra> yup
<ogra> thats nice :)
<MrMazda> makes FTP installs fast
<lucasvo> my shipit connection takes about 3 weeks to download cd's :D
<ogra> i'm at the very end of the line here ... 768k is the biggest i can get 
<lucasvo> ogra: skyDSL :D
<MrMazda> wget usually shows me just under 600
<ogra> but thats the price i like to pay for the view ;)
<lucasvo> ogra: ronja/wifi can give you connection for 15km, maybe there you would get a better connection?
<ogra> http://www.grawert.net/gallery/pano/
<lucasvo> wow, that's really out of nowhere
<ogra> lucasvo, yes, but i'd need someone to be the upstream for it and still several hops to get over the hills
<MrMazda> should it be ready for the restart yet?
<ogra> it should telly you ...
<ogra> -y
<MrMazda> I'm downstairs, it's upstairs
<ogra> ah, k 
<ogra> 30 min is a good time to have a look i think ... +/- 10 min for the slower HW 
<lucasvo> ogra: is there already a client for s-c-p
<lucasvo> ogra: will there be any?
<ogra> client ? 
<lucasvo> which has control over the X session
<lucasvo> or won't it be able to change the Xserver?
<ogra> what for ? 
<lucasvo> blank a screen?
<lucasvo> show video?
<ogra> thats a thing to do with the screensaver
<lucasvo> ah ok
<lucasvo> and how do you want to activate screensaver?
<ogra> forget about video in ltap
<ogra> ltsp
<lucasvo> why?
<ogra> becuse you wont make it work fluid ...
<lucasvo> too slow?
<ogra> too much data foling over the netlink
<ogra> *flowing
<ogra> video or GL are things you cnt solve without running stuff locally on the client
<MrMazda> CD ejected
<ogra> great :)
<MrMazda> the F[3-7]  screens should have the word "workstation" somewhere
<ogra> yup
<ogra> my bad 
<ogra> its pretty different in dapper already
<ogra> since we use gfxboot for the CD ...
<ogra> suse very friendlytweaked it for us to work in ubuntu ;)
<MrMazda> SuSE my favorite Linux installer
<lucasvo> yast2 ?
<MrMazda> Mandriva good too
<ogra> but it only runs on x86 
<MrMazda> FC sux
<MrMazda> package selection part of FC very limited
<MrMazda> no search
<ogra> we support 5 arches ... so we need something that work on all of them
<ogra> *works
<MrMazda> Xandros installer nice, but very simple
<ogra> the ubuntu/debian installer is the most powerful one that exists ... but you sadly have to live with the bluescreen ...
<MrMazda> why isn't Firefox on the Kubuntu CD?
<ogra> it isnt ? 
<MrMazda> it wasn
<MrMazda> it wasn't installed
<ogra> i didnt know that ... i only help riddell to test the liveCD sometimes, but that doesnt go beyond testing if it boots and starting 1-2 apps
<MrMazda> doesn't matter, I use mozilla.org builds any way -> http://cvs-www.mozilla.org/webtools/bonsai/cvslog.cgi?file=mozilla-org/html/unix/dpi.html&rev=&root=/cvsroot/
<ogra> thats fine for kubuntu, but i wouldnt do that in ubuntu/edubuntu 
<MrMazda> from /usr/local
<MrMazda> I leave the distro builds alone
<ogra> yes, but there is much stuff linked against firefox ... i.e. the gnoem helpsystem 
<ogra>  /usr/local/lib will overrde /usr/lib
<MrMazda> right, so I leave all that undisturbed, and just run from /usr/local/firefox
<MrMazda> not installed, untarred
<ogra> ah, only the binary
<ogra> that should be fine ..
<MrMazda> works fine everywhere else that has the legacy libs available
<ogra> yup
<MrMazda> http://cvs-www.mozilla.org/webtools/bonsai/cvslog.cgi?file=mozilla-org/html/ports/os2/index.html&rev=&root=/cvsroot/
<lucasvo> hi crimsun_ 
<crimsun_> hi
<crimsun_> wonky coffee shop wifi ;)
<ogra> hehe
<lucasvo> is there anything like alt-tab for switching from different apps from different desktops?
<lucasvo> how can I open a shell as a user with the X display set correctly?
<ogra> you cant  
<lucasvo> :(
<ogra> usually xhost does that 
<ogra> but over a local tcp socket
<lucasvo> how can I run a command as a special user with X set correctly?
<ogra> since thats very insecure, tcp transport is disabled in ubuntu
<ogra> if i would know how to do that in a secure way, you could look it up in the s-c-p source ;)
<lucasvo> how can I edit the menus in gnome, they got really messed up after dapper upgrade
<ogra> i'll have to inspect the ssh tunneling protocol a bit more, there mustbe a possibility to hook in there somewhere
<ogra> right click on the ubuntu logo
<lucasvo> ah
<lucasvo> is there some reset button?
<lucasvo> found it
<ogra> niot that i'm aware of ..
<lucasvo> Revert :D
<ogra> ah the "Defaults" button, right
<MrMazda> ogra: is it OK to simply tack the isa sound card module onto the bottom of /etc/modules manually?
<MrMazda> it's what I did in kubuntu
<ogra> did it work ? 
<MrMazda> 1
<ogra> if it did, that should work in edubuntu as well
<MrMazda> didn't know if that was another no-no
<ogra> just make sure o use the alsa module ... (the one that starts with snd- )
<MrMazda> snd-azt2320
<ogra> yup, thats fine
<MrMazda> learned that in Xandrox
<MrMazda> learned that in Xandros
<MrMazda> 80% done, wasting time again on wierd fonts
<ogra> heh, yes, i thought about dropping some, but we support 90 languages ... and these fonts are needed ...
<MrMazda> only after the other langs installed though, right?
<ogra> not really, for example it maked japanese websites not looking weird if you accidently end up on one ...
<ogra> but that indeed doesnt teach you the lang *g*
<MrMazda> who knows from wierd if only you can read English
<ogra> they should probably be tied to the language packs ...
<ogra> but that would blow them up even more ...
<ogra> and if i look at the kde language packs i get nightmares ...
<ogra> hey Hemet_Ka 
* lucasvo for e.g. is just looking at a chinese webiste :D
<ogra> you left to fast :)
<Lord_Athur> hi ogra 
<Lord_Athur> hiow are you?
<Lord_Athur> :D
<lucasvo> hi Lord_Athur 
<ogra> there are squashfs-tools, you might probably find what you look for in there ..
<Lord_Athur> mm
<Lord_Athur> ok ogra 
<Lord_Athur> hi lucasvo 
<Lord_Athur> are the metadistros good distros?
<ogra> which ones specifically ? 
<Lord_Athur> mmm
<lucasvo> ubuntu is the best distro ! :D
<Lord_Athur> I don't know, I want to make one
<Lord_Athur> :P
<Lord_Athur> jejeje
<Lord_Athur> It'd be only for learn more about distros...
<ogra> look at the existing ones and look at the userbase ... then guess yourself ...
<ogra> (edubuntu is a metadistro ;) )
<Lord_Athur> you're right
<ogra> as well as userlinux
<Lord_Athur> I'll see it
<lucasvo> Lord_Athur: what metadistro do you want to do?
<Lord_Athur> one with KDEas the default GE & one with my programs
<ogra> if you compare userlinux with edubuntu. you'll find very different outcome ...
<ogra> metaistro basically means that you have a metapackage that defines a subset of anouther distro to be installed
<Lord_Athur> mmm
<Lord_Athur> ok
<ogra> userlinux is a set of metapackages in debian, but has no real userbase ... edubuntu and kubuntu are metadistros in ubuntu ...
<ogra> consisting of metapackages (edubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-server, edubuntu-artwork)
<ogra> or kubuntu-desktop ...
<Lord_Athur> mmm
<Lord_Athur> can I put the Kubuntu-desktop in the devian server?
<ogra> i wouldnt try that
<Lord_Athur> ogra, how can I use the apckage of squashfs-tools?
<ogra> no idea, as i told you before, i have no experience with squashfs
<ogra> but i saw there is this package ...
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> thanks
<MrMazda> ogra: gdm is up
<Lord_Athur> I've to go
<Lord_Athur> bye
<ogra> look in /usr/share/doc/ squashfs-tools
<ogra> gah
<ogra> he's always to fast to get the important info :P
<ogra> MrMazda, YAY !!!
<MrMazda> need to unerror 'linux workstation'
<MrMazda> now it's safe 4 u 2 goto bed
<MrMazda> :)
<ogra> not anymore ... as i said, we use gfxboot in the new CD ;)
<ogra> so you got a wimple menu to select from ...
<ogra> *simple
<MrMazda> just a password box
<ogra> its only 1am... i usually am up until 3 or 4 ;)
<lucasvo> ogra: and when do you have to begin working?
<MrMazda> first thing is get nfs, Gecko & Chatzilla going
<lucasvo> ogra: are you more inactive when you work anyway?
* MrMazda goes back upstairs
<ogra> lucasvo, as i like ... as long as edubuntu is ready at release day and i finish my spec in time ;)
<ogra> *specs
<lucasvo> MrMazda: always think that your daughter maybe not want to have that many options as you like to :D
<ogra> this here *is* my work
<lucasvo> ogra: so it is akkordarbeit :P
<ogra> nope, just slavery of the release schedule ;)
<lucasvo> ogra: maybe sabfdl should add something to your specs, that you are in a hurry a little bit more :D
<ogra> i could stop after 8h of work if i'd like
<ogra> but then it *would* be "akkordarbeit" ;)
<ogra> this way i'm online ~14h and have nice chats inbetween ... 
<MrMazda> ogra: arghhhhh! 640x480 :(
<ogra> damned
<lucasvo> MrMazda: you already had the problem wiht kubuntu, didn't you
<lucasvo> ?
<ogra> did it work better with kubuntu ? 
<MrMazda> prolly same as b4, no vert/horiz lines in xorg.conf
<ogra> yup
<lucasvo> MrMazda: it was the wrong horsync
<MrMazda> I had to put them in manually b4
<MrMazda> not wrong, NONE
<ogra> they are not needed with recent HW, but if your monitor doesnt report the DDC values right, you need them
<ogra> err DCC
<MrMazda> I can put them in and restart X, but should I save the logs for a bug report?
<ogra> wont fix the herdware i guess 
<MrMazda> I looked yesterday for such bugs
<ogra> *hard
<MrMazda> lots recently fixed or duped
<lucasvo> MrMazda: except mine :(
<ogra> its the DCC reporting of the monitor thats not working
<lucasvo> ogra: daniels is not around, where is he?
<ogra> perparing for uni, he starts studying in january
<lucasvo> aha
<ogra> so he's not around 20h/day anymore
<lucasvo> Unpacking mythtv-backend (from .../mythtv-backend_0.18.1-5_i386.deb) ...
<lucasvo> Setting up mythtv-backend (0.18.1-5) ...
<lucasvo> chown: `mythtv:mythtv': invalid user
<MrMazda> May 1998 Sony CPD-200
<lucasvo> ogra: where does he live?
<ogra> melbourne
<lucasvo> ah, crap
<lucasvo> so I have to look for him in the night
<ogra> MrMazda, sudo ddcprobe
<lucasvo> the germans are crazy, they want to use soldiers for WM, a civil war! 
* ogra is a happy soccer ater
<ogra> *hater
* lucasvo too
<lucasvo> there is nothing as boring as soccer games on tv
<Hemet_Ka> ogra, I found this page about Metadistros http://metadistros.hispalinux.org/
<Hemet_Ka> it's in Spanish, but you can select your language
<Hemet_Ka> could you see it?
<ogra> i know hispalinux, they were at the edubuntu summit
<Hemet_Ka> realy?
<Hemet_Ka> what does the word summit mean?
<Hemet_Ka> :S
<ogra> s well as guadalinux and lliurex and linex
<Hemet_Ka> I'm a bag Englsih speaker
<ogra> a developer gathering
<Hemet_Ka> ok
<ogra> seems in spain, every village has its own distro :)
<Hemet_Ka> then the matadistro project that the page shows must be a good alternative for me
<ogra> many of them are switching to ubuntu ...
<Hemet_Ka> but I cannot download the software that is in the page
<Hemet_Ka> :S
<ogra> go to hispalinux.es
<ogra> that might help
<Hemet_Ka> but the page send me to http://metadistros.hispalinux.org/ 
<Hemet_Ka> it's the same
<Hemet_Ka> xD
<ogra> heh
<ogra> looks somehow unmaintained
<Hemet_Ka> 
<ogra> ah, no, last post dec 17
<Hemet_Ka> jeje
<lucasvo> good night!
<Hemet_Ka> :D lucasvo 
<ogra> night
<Hemet_Ka> is the kubuntu-desktop package in only one file?
<ogra> its a meta package ...
<ogra> so its an empty package that only has dependencys
<Hemet_Ka> ok
<ogra> apt-get source kubuntu-desktop and have a look
<Navire> I instaled Edubuntu there, with  old  client  petium 100Mhz 32RAM. Hi not suport boot PXE, suport boot on floppy. Start, but very slow!!!! Someone can help me?
<Navire> Anyone know how to do  this?
<Hemet_Ka> I don't know
<Navire> Ok
<Navire> Hemet, Do you use LTSP?
<Hemet_Ka> what's LTSP?
<Navire> Liniux Terminal Server Project. Terminal Server fro Linux
<Hemet_Ka> no, Idon't use it
<Navire> Thank you. :)
<Navire> Do you use Edubuntu ou Ubuntu?
<Hemet_Ka> is there a page to read more about LTSP
<Hemet_Ka> mm
<Hemet_Ka> Kubuntu
<Hemet_Ka> this don't have to be too different
<Hemet_Ka> realy?
<Hemet_Ka> KDE is better then gnome (it's what i think)
<Navire> I will use KDE, but now use GNome on Ubuntu is very good!!
<Hemet_Ka> :P
<Navire> lol
<Navire> Try Gnome and to see it is very very good than KDE.
<Navire> On Ubuntu
<Hemet_Ka> I've seen gnome
<Hemet_Ka> but I prefer KDE
<Hemet_Ka> It's the best
<Hemet_Ka> I'll be bask in 5 minutes
<luluroot> ogra: it's MrMazda upstairs on edubuntu/firefox/chatzilla
<luluroot> lucasvo: u awake?
<luluroot> again unknown key garbage on the consoles
* luluroot wonders if he's talking to himself
* MrMazda sees that's not so
<Hemet_Ka> hi
<MrMazda> hello Hemet_Ka 
<Hemet_Ka> :D
<Hemet_Ka> hi MrMazda 
<MrMazda> I think everyone else watchin TV or asleep :-p
<MrMazda> or whatever they do besides puters on weekends
<Navire> I have to go now, I will sleep now
<Navire> Good  bye evebady
<Navire> See you later
<Navire> take care
<Navire> I love Gnome :)
<MrMazda> cul8r
<Navire> The best Desktop
<Hemet_Ka> hi
* luluroot jumps up and down waving a flag in ogra's face
<MrMazda> help
<MrMazda> ogra: help
<MrMazda> lucasvo: help
<MrMazda> somebody help
<Yagisan> re
<Yagisan> MrMazda: what broke ?
<lululinux> grub
<lululinux> fixed now
<lululinux> dumb install too stupid to play local mp3 files though
<Yagisan> lululinux: you need to enable restriced formats for mp3
<lululinux> mebbe mhz knows how to fix it ;-)
<Yagisan> lululinux: f*cking patent issues
<lululinux> what's that mean?
<mhz> hi all
<lululinux> how
<Yagisan> G'day mhz - what's the wiki page for restricted formats say, basically, add universe and multiverse right ?
<mhz> iirc
<lululinux> added universe long time ago
* Yagisan has very slow access today < 64k
<mhz> multiverse is restricted
<lululinux> first thing practically, since mc is missing from the CD
<mhz> i mean, multiverse is the 'non-always-free-zone'
<Yagisan> lululinux: yep, the wonderful mc is universe. you need to add multiverse
<Yagisan> lululinux: First https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesHowto
<Yagisan> lululinux: then https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
<lululinux> wiki is screwed up
<Yagisan> should help with mp3
<lululinux> huge horizontal scroll
<lululinux> can't use it
<Yagisan> wiki works fine for me @ 1024x768
<lululinux> not here
<lululinux> huge horizontal scroll
<Yagisan> lululinux: do you have granny fonts setup ie big fonts instead of standard ?
<Yagisan> lululinux: control + 0 in firefox should fix it
<Yagisan> mhz: how are you today ?
<mhz> tired, i couldnt sleep friday-saturday night
<mhz> .oO(it's sunday 01:25 AM)
<Yagisan> mhz: me either, Eric would get up every hour to either shit, or eat.
<Yagisan> mhz: have you seen Iron Chef ?
<mhz> hehehehe
<mhz> nope, never seen iron chef
<Yagisan> mhz: you poor thing, you have no idea what you are missing!
<mhz> hehehe
<MrMazda> Yagisan: a lunatic built http://help.ubuntu.com/starterguide/C/faqguide-all.html
<MrMazda> too wide because huge whitespace in the <pre> stuff
<MrMazda> see e.g. line 613
<MrMazda> only fits on screen by using mousetype, which I can't read
<a-865> Yagisan: horizontal scroll even at 1792x1344
<Yagisan> you must have some weird settings somewhere
<MrMazda> all 3 puters same problem
<MrMazda> a lunatic built http://help.ubuntu.com/starterguide/C/faqguide-all.html
<Yagisan> I'm sending you a screenie of how it looks to me
<Yagisan> Tried both firefox and konqueror, I can't reproduce *any* horizontal scroll, without making the fonts excessively large
<Yagisan> MrMazda: send me a screenshot
<MrMazda> http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/accessibility.html
<MrMazda> Yagisan: http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/helpubuntu.gif
<MrMazda> Chatzilla was backlogged again :-p
<MrMazda> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=319219
* mhz has a couple of photos of his edubuntu laptop (10 inches server)
<mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MauricioHernandez/EdubuntuRelatedPhotos
<Yagisan> MrMazda: your fonts are too large, that's why it displays odd. On a visual inspection, that page would meet WAI-A accessibility ratings.
<MrMazda> no it wouldn't
<MrMazda> my fonts are EXACTLY the right size
<MrMazda> Yagisan: http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/accessibility.html http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/defaultsize.html
<MrMazda> too wide because huge whitespace in the <pre> stuff
<MrMazda> see e.g. line 613
<MrMazda> http://cvs-www.mozilla.org/webtools/bonsai/cvslog.cgi?file=mozilla-org/html/unix/dpi.html&rev=&root=/cvsroot/
<Yagisan> MrMazda: Well, I didn't write it, btw I sense some irony that your default size page also fails to validate at WAI standards ;)
<Yagisan> IIRC the documetation is being updated for dapper
<Yagisan> so I'm sure it will be fixed
<MrMazda> Yagisan: what fails?
<MrMazda> since Bobby disappeared I haven't checked anything
<Yagisan> MrMazda: For my business website I use http://webxact.watchfire.com/
<Yagisan> MrMazda: I try for level AAA if possible, but some pages are only AA
<Yagisan> MrMazda: it failed at level AA
<Yagisan> MrMazda: You also may want to rethink Comic Sans MS, that is a hard font to read
<MrMazda> look at why, it claims way lotta broken links, links that aren't even on the page
<MrMazda> COMIC SANS IS NOT HARD TO READ unless it is too small, and I only use it for TITLES
<MrMazda> I don't care who doesn't like Comic Sans
<MrMazda> They can uninstall it if they hate it
<MrMazda> where is it finding all the broken links?
<Yagisan> MrMazda: 1, the links are there I read the source, 2 what a hypocritical response for an accessibility person
<Yagisan> MrMazda: thanks for assuming MY default size
<MrMazda> ???
<MrMazda> all I assume about your default is that you chose it appropriately
<MrMazda> http://webxact2.watchfire.com/report.asp?t=1&s=5&ts=8450&y=0 claims 6i1 broken links in a page that doesn't even have 10 links in it total
<MrMazda> http://webxact2.watchfire.com/report.asp?t=1&s=5&ts=8450&y=0 claims 61 broken links in a page that doesn't even have 10 links in it total
<MrMazda> Yagisan: now I see we weren't talking about the same page
<mhz> :)
<MrMazda> http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/defaultsize.html is that I thought you meant, and I pasted the wrong URI
<MrMazda> http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/wauth1.html has stuff I have don't have adequate web space for
<Yagisan> MrMazda: something to keep in mind, is that every <a href> tag, even if it points to the same page is a link
<MrMazda> Yagisan: the priority 2 failure on http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/defaultsize.html is due to code pasted into the page directly from the WC3 site for the validation link. o_O
<MrMazda> silly stuff, like not liking H5 to follow H1
<lucasvo> hello
<lucasvo> hello ivan 
<lucasvo> ogra: I am now python pro :D
<lucasvo> ogra: is there anything I can do with s-c-p?
<ogra> couls some native english speaker check the edubuntu flight2 release announcement for typos and grammar ? 
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuFlight2Announcement
<Yagisan> spacey: ping
<Yagisan> G'day mhz
<mhz> wow!
<mhz> Yagisan: gifted guy! :D
<Yagisan> mhz: did I do something right again ?
<mhz> hehehe, being awake
<Yagisan> mhz: It's called two small children :)
<Yagisan> I look like a panda, big black rings under my eyes
<mhz> LOL!!1
<Yagisan> mhz: what is this mythical sleep you speak of ? I know no such thing
<mhz> :)
<mhz> 'mythical' hehehe
<mhz> wait til they're over 5
<lululinux> wohoo, just got free bigger HD, free RAM, and free faster CPU. See ya later mhz Yagisan & lucasvo . :)
<mhz> Yagisan: is bittorrent on commandline?
<Yagisan> mhz: yes!! I can send them to school - I'll become fully nocturnal, I can sleep again
<Yagisan> mhz: I don't no, I don't use the bittorent clients with ubuntu
<Yagisan> s/no/know
<Yagisan> I use azureus for my bittorent stuff
<ogra> mhz, just clisk a .torrent file in firefox, gnome-bitorrent will care for it ...
<Yagisan> but that needs a java 1.5 runtime, most likely sun's, although blackdown, or ibm should do it.
<mhz> ogra: hehehe, you make life too easy :)
<ogra> heh
<Yagisan> I'll be very happy when gcj runs azureus
<Yagisan> or at least kaffe or sablevm
<mhz> I know i am no advanced GNU/Linux user but I do know I prefer to do things manually so I have little clues of what's going on, ogra
<mhz> otherwise, I'd probably use Mac OSX :)
<mhz> .oO(well, I wouldn't because it is not Free as in freedom)
<ogra> you can also download the .torrent file and open it manually with gnome-btdownload ;)
<mhz> hehehehehehehehehehe
<mhz> ogra: I really like your sense of humour (very diff from other german guys i have met)
* Yagisan wonders, how many people would still use torrents, if you took all the porn away ...
* mhz has never used torrent, only wget -c
<ogra> edubuntu testers ? (hopefully=
<Yagisan> Of course, with porn gone, there would be no need for adsl2, as suddenly there would be excess bandwidth for all
<mhz> BTW, why is torrent so recommended?
<ogra> because it saves bandwidth for everyone ...
<Yagisan> It spreads the bandwidth load over all people involved
<Yagisan> you can get you download done quicker
<ogra> as all p2p apps do :)
<Yagisan> s/get you/get your
<Yagisan> Of course, that does rely on you also sharing the download to at least a 1:1 ratio
<Yagisan> mhz: Don't forget to watch milk battle :)
<mhz> Yagisan: 80%
<mhz> Yagisan: but is that the very best featured?
<mhz> sorry, ogra can answer too ;)
<Yagisan> mhz: best feature bittorrent client ?
<Yagisan> mhz: My personal preference is azureus http://azureus.sourceforge.net/
<Yagisan> mhz: but as I said, needs java 1.5 compatible runtime
<Yagisan> mhz: IIRC there may be an ubuntu package for it in dapper
<mhz> hmm, interesting
<ogra> for 1.5 ?
<ogra> not as long as ibm doesnt release a 1.5 blackdown package
<Yagisan> no, the azureus package
<mhz> .oO(maybe Emacs have a 'torrent' like plugin :)
<Yagisan> IIRC I thought I saw it either in ubuntu or debian
<Yagisan> perhaps debian mentors
* Yagisan grabs things out of many repos
* mhz notices azureus sounds very simila to 'zaurus', and he has to sell his SL-5500 before christmas :(
<ogra> oh, why is that ?
<Yagisan> he wants a new model ??
<mhz> because I ordered 3 laptops (well, I chose and this friend payed for them) from eBay and 2 were never sent to us. Now I gotta give this friend back his money :(
<Yagisan> mhz: hmm, did you use paypal ?
<mhz> Yagisan: unless I got a Zaurus 'horizontal' screen model (4 GB in ROM and 1 USB port), I would definately prefer a Toshiba Libretto (less than 10 inches)!
<mhz> Yagisan: yup! but we never knew that the transaction 'filing complaints' lasted 60 days tops.
<mhz> and the communication with seller was always good (he giving us reasons why he couldn't senf them yet and crap)
<mhz> opps... i rephrase 'cr*p' wit 'cramps'
* mhz has no idea if cramps is an english word, it just sounded similar
<Yagisan> mhz: so the cocksucker delayed you until you could not get a refund. Bastard.
<mhz> yup
* Yagisan has an intense hate for ebayers like that
<mhz> and I also complained to eBay because if you read 'normal' info, they never mention about 60 days.
<Yagisan> mhz: your english is great if you understand what I called that seller
<mhz> Yagisan: plus the fact that ebaye sellers (with laptops I liked) did not want to sell outside US so it took me 3 months to convince them :(
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> thx
<Yagisan> ogra: IBM does have a Java 5 for download
<ogra> oh
<Yagisan> but not blackdown
<ogra> gah
<Yagisan> I just checked both
<Yagisan> mhz: I'm sorry you where ripped off :(
<ogra> we only have access to the blackdown sources and cant include binary only packages in ubuntu
<mhz> ogra: in ubuntu-user ML there was a bit of complaining about devels decisions (4 lines email). Can i paste them?
<Yagisan> s/where/were
<mhz> Yagisan: sheeps happens
<ogra> sure, but i read -users
<mhz> ohhh. zaro killed
<mhz> zero
<ogra> i wonder why people never help while the specs are worked out and the decisions are made but complain very loud 7 months later
<mhz> yup!, I 100% agree with you
<Yagisan> ogra: I complain very load bout the specs I care about, but I couldn't go to canada
<Yagisan> ogra: so, in dapper, I still won't have decent multi-lingual input :(
<mhz> I wish to think it is a matter of 'not knowing how to get involved'
<ogra> Yagisan, the specs are on the wiki ... and are worked out there
<ogra> Yagisan, scim ? 
<Yagisan> yep
<Yagisan> can you say breezy was a total regression
<mhz> pasting...
<mhz> > MTA is important, I vote 'yes'.
<mhz> > Have you talked to the Devel guys?
<mhz> Absolutely. Some of us would like to use MUAs that don't suck, like Mutt.
<mhz> Plus, mailx is used to send email from scripts all of the time. These
<mhz> people dumbing-down Linux and making it less useful are making me want
<mhz> to go use FreeBSD.
<Yagisan> ogra: at least it is on the agenda
<ogra> i was asked about it by several germans about it too now and minghua in -motu is upstream in debian for some of them ...
<ogra> so a scim team would probably help
<ogra> the prob is that we dont have enough devs for it ...
<Yagisan> ogra: yep, I've met minghua in -motu
<ogra> i personally don use scim 
<ogra> but i see the need
<ogra> especially if we want to gain more on the asian market
<Yagisan> ogra: well, in my case, uim the alternative, only works in gnome apps, and breaks more the half of universe
<ogra> but its all gpl, right ?
<Yagisan> ogra: If you even want to communicate with asia, it needs to be fixed
<mhz> BTW, ogra, I just want to 'log' here that after jdub got back (that he said in -devel) I still get no mail regarding 'edubuntu-devel-es' ML :(
<Yagisan> yep, all gpl
<mhz> and I am afraid he gest pissed off if I insist, once more.
* Yagisan really needs to sit down and learn C and C++
<ogra> mhz, nope, he wont 
<ogra> just poke him
<mhz> okis
<mhz> so, based on your answers... no good devel would get pissed off?
<ogra> mhz, the mail stuff is one apt-get from the CD away... i dont see the issue there ...
<ogra> yup
<ogra> especially not jdub...
<mhz> ogra: sure, I know, that's why i only asked if that person had talked to devel guys.
<ogra> Yagisan, btw, are you a slug member ? 
<mhz> Yagisan: are you going to NewZeland in January ?
* Yagisan thinks the best way to get scim working is to get all the devs, and asian partner (humorous joke, for the humor impaired)
<Yagisan> slug ?? no
<ogra> oh, why ? 
<Yagisan> mhz: I can't afford to go to kiwi land
<ogra> Yagisan, i hope one of the confs in the near future will be in asia
<Yagisan> ogra: because first I need to google for it
<ogra> haha
<ogra> youre in sydney, arent you ? 
<Yagisan> yep
<ogra> so slug is for you then ;) 
<Yagisan> well, technically it's western sydney
<ogra> mhz could send his poking through you to jdub ;)
<ogra> with a *real* finger involved
<Yagisan> oh, there is a linux users group here
<mhz> ogra: :D
<ogra> yes, the:
<ogra> syfney
<Yagisan> I should go
<ogra> Linux
<ogra> User
<Yagisan> now where is it ?
<ogra> Group
<ogra> aka, slug ;)
<Yagisan> ogra: slug is a pest related to a snail
<Yagisan> :)
<ogra> loool
<mhz> lol
<kjcole> Hiya...
<mhz> M$ = snail
<mhz> i had never seen it like that!
<mhz> :D
<mhz> hey kjcole Mr. EduDoc!
<Yagisan> basically slugs are snails without shells
<mhz> interesting
<kjcole> mhz, Sitting here waiting for Elkner to arrive.  (But I'm early.  We're scheduled for 10 this morning.)
<mhz> but I prefer NAT Geo or Discovery :)
<kjcole> ogra, you had mentioned giving me clues as to what to do about "bzr push"  (Though I want it to work on my server, I think the ideal solution for the Cookbook would be to have Launchpad keep it safe and warm.)
<mhz> kjcole: please send my huge thanks to Elkner as well, because you 2 meeting on a sunday at 10 AM.. is very heroic!
<mhz> and you are meeting to work not just to play cards
<mhz> or role playing
<ogra> kjcole, i dont think the launchpad supermirror is ready yet, you'll have to resort to your server for now
<Yagisan> ogra: I'm a monkey, where is slug located ?
* mhz still loving BZR
<kjcole> mhz, 10 isn't heroic -- last week's 8:30 on a Sunday *THAT* was heroic. ;-)
<mhz> wow! yup!!
<ogra> kjcole, the fastes way to have push working would be to run a ssh server on your server and use sftp pushing
<ogra> but sftp is bretty slow for push, so probably an rsync server would be cooler
<mhz> rsync is nice, very cool
<kjcole> ogra, ssh server is running, but I've got to go back and figure out what I did to restrict access.  (I had it running ssh server under Fedora, but had access to the machine very strictly controlled.)
<ogra> just make sftp possible to the dir you have your branch in ...
<mhz> kjcole: maybe Yagisan 'gifted non-sleepy-sec-expert' may help
<kjcole> As for rsync, when I push, I think the error message is that it doesn't understand rsync.  But I haven't banged around on that much.
<ogra> that sounds like a server prob
<Yagisan> Is the server aggressively firewalled ?
<kjcole> ogra, yeah, my thought as well.
<Yagisan> I've occasionally forgotten to open a port for ssh
* Yagisan will brb. time to do fathers duties :( I can smell it from here
<ivan> No slug, no snail! I want to use kturtle. Who use this junior instrument?
<kjcole> Yagisan, it was, under Fedora, but it isn't now (unless I've messed up when copying files from the old system to the new.)
<kjcole> Yagisan, we're also behind the campus-wide firewall, but that doesn't block ssh -- unless they've changed something again without telling the community.  (Wouldn't be the first time.)
<kjcole> Anyway, the sense I'm getting here is that the setup isn't anything unusual to get it working.  So, let me poke around and see what I learn.
<ogra> you can also use "scp -r . server:/path ", but that will copy the whole tree everytime ...
<Yagisan> re
<mhz> okis
<mhz> Bye to you all!
<mhz> see you tomorrow
<mhz> have nice sunday rest of day
<Yagisan> bye mhz, tel me how milk battle was!
<ogra> Yagisan, http://www.slug.org.au/ btw ...
<kjcole> ogra, that's what I've been doing.  But I want others to be able to push without opening my little office server to the world.  (I had an unfortunate incident many years ago when I opened up the machine to someone off campus that I thought I could trust.  That mistake ended up with the FBI hauling off my computer.)
<Yagisan> thanks ogra:
<ogra> oh, i wouldnt do that 
<kjcole> ogra, so, it's made me a bit shy of such things.
<ogra> i'd just maintain a local branch and merge the changes locally, to push it later
<Yagisan> kjcole: ouch
<ogra> has the advantage of someone having the control over the tree ...
<ogra> at least for development i find it  veryimportant that one guy is the master and reviews the changes that go in
<ogra> not sure about doc work though
<kjcole> OK.  Well, I'm gonna run off now.  Later all.
<Yagisan> ogra: slugs website doesn't make it obvious where the meetings are :(
<ogra> poke jdub 
<ogra> he'll tell you
* Yagisan makes a note to find a pointy stick, and poke jdub until he squeals where the meetings are, and gives me the secret decoder ring of entry ;)
<ogra> hehe
* Yagisan wishes he had a way to utilise his ltsp nodes to help encode his dvds
<ogra> doesnt dvdrip have such an option ? 
<Yagisan> ogra: I've just found that via google, so I'm reading the docs now
<Yagisan> ogra: it seems dvdrip wants to ssh to the clients, that may be problematic
<ogra> just set up a aahd ...
<ogra> sshd
* Yagisan twiddles thumbs while waiting for dvdrip and dependencies to download
<Yagisan> oh happy happy joy joy dvdrip can't find it's dependencies :(
<ogra> most likely it needs transcode and friends ...
<Yagisan> but they downloaded too
<feria> hi all
<Yagisan> G'day feria
<feria> I ve been reading bout edubuntu and is great.... 
<feria> #edubuntu-es is alone, are there a contact for the spanish version?  I Can contribute with translations...
<feria> doh! MauricioHernandez en [MAILTO]  mhz@tecnocimiento.cl si hablas castellano.
<feria> sorry
<ogra> feria, edubuntu is developed inside of ubuntu ... so rosetta is the place for translations
<ogra> http://www.launchpad.net/
<feria> is a great idea, the kids are the future :)
<feria> there are no live cd version yet?
<ogra> see http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-December/000927.html
<feria> thanks ogra :)
<jelkner> orga: have you seen (or heard) from mauricio (mhz) recently?
<ogra> he was here this morning ...
<ogra> until late afternoon
<ogra> but said goodbye for the rest of the day 
<jelkner> in his time zone, it isn't even noon yet ;-)
<ogra> he came in 13:30 UTC and left 16:30 UTC it seems ...
<jelkner> ok, i'll catch him wednesday morning
<jelkner> we had a great time yesterday at tennants and workers united
<ogra> nice 
<jelkner> 6 new ubuntunteros
<jelkner> all spanish sqeaking women
<jelkner> we went on the ubuntu-es channel
<ogra> and met mhz  ?
<jelkner> no, he wasn't there
<jelkner> that's what i want to ask him
<ogra> (there is edubuntu-es as well btw (see topic))
<jelkner> if he could join us next time
<jelkner> oh
<ogra> he runs it
<jelkner> that would be even better
<jelkner> we should meet there
<jelkner> they are all newbies
<ogra> thats fine ;)
<jelkner> so we need some folks who wouldn't mind talking to newbies
<jelkner> cool
<jelkner> ok, on another topic
<jelkner> kevin and i are here to work on the book
<ogra> i dont mind talking to newbies, but somehow my spanish is nonexistent ;)
<ogra> yep
<jelkner> i'll hit you up when we have german newbies
<jelkner> which i will have soon
<ogra> send them to #edubuntu-de :)
<jelkner> (actually german student newbies)
<jelkner> cool!
<jelkner> they are both new to ubuntu and new to german
<ogra> hehe
<jelkner> ok, bzr...
<ogra> i could teach them both i guess
<jelkner> cool
<jelkner> i'm thinking of getting a virtual server to host the book
<ogra> oh, a complete server ?
<jelkner> yeah
<ogra> isnt that a bit much for one branch ? 
<jelkner> it would cost 7.99 per month
<jelkner> i could set it up until launchpad is ready
<ogra> i think launchpad will be ready during this dev cycle, its just not ready *nw*
<jelkner> (so only a few months)
<ogra> *now
<ogra> probably even weeks
<jelkner> we can cancell the virtual machine any time we want
<ogra> i saw the supermirror runnung locally at ubz
<jelkner> so we'll only be out a few buck
<jelkner> bucks
<jelkner> anyway, can we check back with you if we have trouble getting bzr to work
<ogra> sure 
* jelkner goes off to setup bzr server...
<ogra> for the normal usage thats fine, if it comes to bugs or deeper internals, #bzr is the better bet
<jelkner> understood
<highvoltage> hi ogra!
<ogra> what i said to kjcole already, 
<ogra> you should maintian the branch rather locally
<ogra> to have some control about the commits
<ogra> and only have one person who is the central master and megres the different branches
<ogra> hey highvoltage :)
<ogra> at least thats what i do with code, to examine the changes first
<highvoltage> ogra, I know I've asked you before (probably more than once), but where do I get the teacher control panel, formally known as teachertool from again?
<ogra> highvoltage, either as package in dapper or from my bzr branch
<highvoltage> s/formally/previously
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/
<ogra> i worked out the vnc implementation spec last week...
<ogra> i'll code it the next time i have some spare time that i can spend on it
<highvoltage> cool, downloading now via APT
<ogra> so the only missing bit is to work out a sane approach for remote execution of commands, which is the most tricky bit to make securely
<highvoltage> my ISP went down about two weeks ago too, so now the only internet access i have is through GPRS :(
<ogra> all other stuff is cosmetical ..
<ogra> gah
<ogra> thats bad
<highvoltage> sounds almost impossible from a security point of view.
<ogra> btw, did you see the release announcment ? 
<highvoltage> no, I didn't.
<ogra> i thought that for vnc as well, but i think i found a half way secure implementation now
<highvoltage> which release announcement?
<ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-December/000927.html
<ogra> probably also intresting for jelkner ^^^
<ogra> but it went to edubuntu-devel anyway
<highvoltage> oh yes, and to make things worse, my TSF e-mail account is IMAP only, and my @ubuntu address forwards there, IMAP over GPRS isn't far from ideal. i'm going to get a launchpad admin to redirect it to a pop address for me, then i'll be able to stay up to date with email again.
<ogra> hmm you need a launchpad admin for this ? 
<ogra> doesnt it work through the UI ?
<highvoltage> nope :(
<highvoltage> it just uses the e-mail address you registered with, you can't choose it yourself.
<ogra> bah
<ogra> #launchpad willhelp
<highvoltage> yep, i've asked there and they said i should hold on for an admin.
* highvoltage ssh's to work and starts download of flight2
<ogra> yay
<highvoltage> at least i don't need bandwidth to test edubuntu. i'll go to work tomorrow and fetch the iso
<lucasvo> good evening!
<lucasvo> jelkner: ping
<highvoltage> good evening lucasvo 
<lucasvo> what can one do with a iBook G4 ?
<ogra> lucasvo, sell it to me for a cheap price for example :)
<ogra> or test edubuntu powerpc ;)
<lucasvo> ogra: I don't know, I bought it for 50.- but it had a broken display backlight, I combined it with mine, which had a broken logicboard
<lucasvo> ogra: I will try install it
<ogra> great... see the "known" problems section in the release announcement
<lucasvo> ogra: just read it/
<highvoltage> bbl...
<lucasvo> ogra: if I download your bzr archive, can I change it and make a patch, which you may or may not apply?
<ogra> make your change, commit it and upload the whole tree somewhere ... then i can merge it
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$ bzr get http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/ldm/
<lucasvo> bzr: ERROR: URLError instance has no attribute 'code'
<ogra> hmm, funny
<ogra> orks fine here
<ogra> *works
<ogra> i'm just pullin it
<ogra> ask in #bzr what this could be 
<lucasvo>   command: '/usr/bin/bzr' 'get' 'http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/ldm/'
<lucasvo>       pwd: u'/home/lucasvo'
<lucasvo>     error: exceptions.AttributeError
<lucasvo>   at /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/bzrlib/transport/http.py line 146, in get()
<ogra> but here it works flawless
<lucasvo>   see ~/.bzr.log for debug information
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$
<ogra> no idea, sorry, i'm only bzr user
<ogra> trying it here works fine as i said 
<ogra> its just getting revision 138
<lucasvo> lol
<lucasvo> it works now
<ogra> what was the prob ? 
<lucasvo> fetch revision
<lucasvo> k.a.
<lucasvo> it may be a crappy internet connection
<lucasvo> (wifi)
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> ah
<ogra> here too
<lucasvo> hm, no
<lucasvo> it didn't work
<ogra> ogra@honk:~/testldm $ bzr get http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/ldm/
<ogra> Branched 219 revision(s).
<ogra> ogra@honk:~/testldm $
<ogra> worked fine
<lucasvo> when I pull an archive there comes an error: http://pastebin.com/469076
<ogra> as i said, no idea about the bzr internals.... ask in #bzr it works fine here
<ogra> do you have a proxy ? 
<lucasvo> I actually wanted to post it in #bzr :D
<lucasvo> no I don't
<ogra> can you browser the url ? 
<ogra> -r
<lucasvo> yes
<ogra> strange
<ogra> probably the log shows more info ...
<lucasvo> Err http://ch.archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Sources
<lucasvo>   Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
<lucasvo> Failed to fetch http://ch.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/universe/source/Sources.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
<fitzwillie> Anyone available to give a first time installer a hand with some problems?
<ogra> fitzwillie, you read the install notes page from the opic ? 
<ogra> *topic
<fitzwillie> ogra: I've read everything I can get my hands on, espeically serching for the particular errors I'm getting, and no luck
<ogra> so whats your prob ? 
<fitzwillie> After starting the install, I am repeatedly getting some variation on "Invalid Compressed Format (err=2)" or "CRC Error" - I have done a checksum on my download, and re-burnt my disk at 2x to make sure it's not one of those causing it
<fitzwillie> and I've tried every mix of the switches suggested in the help menus
<ogra> there is also a media check on the CD ... it runs qite long, but checks every sector on the burned disk
<fitzwillie> Can I run that from the boot prompt?
<ogra> either use expert install or go "back" at every point of the installation 
<ogra> it will drop you into a menu
<ogra> near the bottom there is "media integrity check"
<fitzwillie> I don't even get to that menu (okay, I did once, and can't repeat how I did it).  it hands up on "Uncompressing Linux" at the very start
<ogra> probably your CD rom doesnt like the media ... i have an apple around that only boots from certain media
<fitzwillie> heh, that would be just my luck.  Though I've tried two different types of CD media.
<ogra> i found exactly on out of five types i have that boots on it ...
<ogra> *one
<fitzwillie> ack.  almost makes this not worth it.  I don't think I have the patience to try and find out which type of CD will work :(
<fitzwillie> ahh well, thanks anyway.  I'll go try something else.
<ogra> what kind of HW is that ? 
<fitzwillie> P3, 266mhz, 3gb HD, 160mb ram
<ogra> sounds fine ...
<ogra> and the CDRom ?
<fitzwillie> haven't sorted that out specifically - looked around the bios but couldn't determine the specific
<ogra> scsi or ide ? or any weird kind of soundblaster driven kind ? 
<fitzwillie> ide
<ogra> ah, k
<fitzwillie> ogra: thanks, gotta run for now... may try this again over the xmas break :)
<lucasvo> ogra: this document is invalid, as it is written in the command above: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/ldm/client/themes/default/color
<lucasvo> ogra: you forgot to define : background = "#ffffde"
<ogra> works fine here 
<lucasvo> ogra: I mean in the comment :D
<lucasvo> ogra: you didn't mention the background attribute
<lucasvo> # Values known by ldm:
<ogra> oh, yes, it was a last minute commit :)
<lucasvo> #ronja Theme: Edubuntu < in the edubuntu theme :D
<lucasvo> em I mean NOT in the edubuntu theme, instead in ubuntu theme
<ogra> ah, yeah
<MrMazda> ogra: u still need https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuFlight2Announcement looked at by a native tongue?
<lucasvo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/ldm/client/themes/Ubuntu/colors
<ogra> MrMazda, nope, its out now ...
<ogra> i had some people at #ubuntu-devel looking at it
<ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-December/000927.html
<ogra> :)
<lucasvo> ah, Jonathan ridell changed quite a lot :D
<ogra> yup
<ogra> together with Colin Watson ...
<ogra> who is our walking spellchecker :)
<lucasvo> :D
<lucasvo> it was an old bzr version :P
<lucasvo> that's why bzr didn't work
<lucasvo> ogra: what version are you using/
<ogra> the daily builds
<lucasvo> ah, and what is in dapper?
<lucasvo> is dapper a daily builds?
<ogra> i dont think so
<ogra> not sure whats te default 
<lucasvo> hi kjcole 
<kjcole> Hi,
<lucasvo> one should split up #ubuntu into sevaral channels, it is too crowded
<highvoltage> it is quite crowded.
<lucasvo> one can not talk normally in there
<highvoltage> that could also be said for most IRC channels ;)
<lucasvo> not really, for e.g. edubuntu
<lucasvo> at least there is #ubuntu-kernel & #ubuntu-devel
<lucasvo> maybe #ubuntu-network
<lucasvo> would be good, to talk about wifi and other network issues
<lucasvo> or #ubuntu-hardware to talk about h/w support
<lucasvo> anybody around?
<MrMazda> me here
<lucasvo> MrMazda: you are a teacher?
<lucasvo> MrMazda: do you have kids in school who work with pc?
<MrMazda> just have 1 10 year old
<lucasvo> I just talked to my brother about it, he is 11
<lucasvo> I am trying to find out what they do with PC in school
<lucasvo> for e.g. he said they use firefox, they have their own user
<MrMazda> mine now at cousin's on Christmas holiday
<lucasvo> do they have pc at school?
<MrMazda> her class has 1 Mac & 3 PC
<MrMazda> plus lots in the lab & libarary
<MrMazda> plus lots in the lab & library
<lucasvo> and what educational software do they have?
<lucasvo> ogra: my sister just started up in xfce, her reaction was: Cool, was ist das? kann ich das behalten? 
<ogra> hehe
<lucasvo> I did apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
<lucasvo> and so now default is xfce
<lucasvo> I think one should include xfce to edubuntu
<lucasvo> or at least make a GUI for changing this setting
<lucasvo> but now keyboard layout doesn't work anymore :(
<ogra> you have a gui for that, its called synaptic
<ogra> and xubuntu-desktop will be in main in dapper ... and thus on the DVD
<ogra> the CD has no space left at all
<lucasvo> :D
<lucasvo> ogra: I mean, how to set default wm
<lucasvo> ogra: isn't there something like ltsp-admin?
<ogra> ope, dont touch it
<ogra> thats for the old ltsp and breaks ours completely
<lucasvo> ogra: but isn't there a gui for ltsp?
<ogra> nope
<lucasvo> hm, ok
<lucasvo> in that case one should make one
<ogra> not yet... and its unlikely the one i started will make dapper
<lucasvo> maybe for dapper +1
<lucasvo> aha,
<lucasvo> so you did start one
<ogra> look in my bzr archive ...
<chevy> buying a new ethernet card for my PC to get it working with edubuntu . . other than avoiding 3Com, any specific suggestions?
<a-865> cheap realtek works for me
<lucasvo> ltsp manager?
<lucasvo> http://rom-o-matic.net/5.4.1/etherboot-5.4.1/src/bin/NIC
<lucasvo> ^^ list of working cards with etherboot
<chevy> thanks
<MrMazda> no idea
<lucasvo> ogra: is it ltsp-manager?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> nah, look for PXE based cards and you wont need silly bootfloppies
<ogra> the rom-o-matic list is exactly the list of cards you dont want if you buy a new one anyway
<ogra> PXE cards lie around 15 ...
<ogra> or 10 pound ...
<ogra> chevy, ^^^
<lucasvo> PXE doesn't need any bootrom?
<ogra> nope
<chevy> ogra . . how's it going
<chevy> yep still looking!
<ogra> chevy, all fine, thanks :)
<chevy> 10 is a lot for an ethernet card!
<ogra> what the normal price in the uk ? 
<ogra> you might get them cheaper 
<chevy> about 4
<lucasvo> ogra: do you know why keyboard is not working in xfce
<chevy> markets flooded with 10/100s
<lucasvo> chevy: but not the ones with pxe
<ogra> lucasvo, no idea ... janimo is in -devel, he's the xfce maintainer ... and crimsun is somethimes here .. he'S the other one
<chevy> thanks ogra lucasvo
* ogra wonders off again
<lucasvo> ogra: ping
#edubuntu 2005-12-24
<bastya_elvtars> hi all
<agente87> hello
<agente87> hi lucas how do you do?
<agente87> does anybody know a modula 2 compiler on ubunt?
<agente87> lucasvo: hi
<lguerra> Hola
<lguerra> alguien me puede colaborar con un problemita que tengo con edubuntu y ltsp?
<mhz> lguerra: claro, podrias visitar #edubuntu-es ?
<lguerra> es que no he podido hacer que me cargue el sistema X en los clientes, me dice que no tiene permiso para escribir en /var/log
<lguerra> y efectivamente no se como hacer para montar la particion virtual en los clientes en rw
<lguerra> siempre la carga ro
<lguerra> aunque ya cambie el fstab
<mhz> lguerra: estas usando edubuntu?
<lguerra> en este momento no
<lguerra> claro ya voy hacia alla
<lguerra> gracias
<mhz> lguerra: es que dificilmente sabre como ayudarte si desconozco mayores detalles de que estas usando :)
<mhz> no obstante, si /var/log te dice eso, probablemente el usuario que estas usando no posee privilegios suficientes para usar X
<lguerra> ya estoy en edubuntu-es
<mhz> ah, okis
<lguerra> a ver te cuento
<MrMazda> is 3.8G / big enuf to install kubuntu and then apt-get install the edu package?
<mhz> hmmm, maybe 4.5 GB
<MrMazda> ogra: u agree with mhz?
<MrMazda> no need for ltsp
<mhz> MrMazda: my current / is 5.5 GB, after installing Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Ubuntu y Edubuntu, I have 1.4 GB free
<mhz> MrMazda: then, if only dsktop you need
<mhz> maybe 3.8 is enough
<mhz> but keep in mind that you'll have less % free in /
<MrMazda> wuz almost done setting up kid's machine with edubuntu earlier yesterday, then got free better machine last night
<MrMazda> P2-350 -> P3-500
<mhz> nice improvement
<MrMazda> from clone to Dell
<mhz> I am running Celeron 500 MHz laptop
<MrMazda> Intel video might be less trouble than the ATI, where consoles always getting corrupted
<MrMazda> bad framebuffer
<mhz> so I have heard
* MrMazda wonders how many here are on GMT +0200 or thereabouts
* mhz is GMT -4
<MrMazda> Nova Scotia?
* MrMazda is GMT -5 (EST)
<mhz> Chile
<mhz> or is it -3 now? In chile we had a change for summer time
* MrMazda thinks Chile & Nova Scotia in same TZ ~ 0400
<MrMazda> mhz: check headers in your last email
<jsgotangco> mhz, no habla espanol
<jsgotangco> hehe
* MrMazda has kubuntu installing on the new used system
<mhz> hehe, headers?
<mhz> jsgotangco: np, it was a hello world
<MrMazda> ya, that stuff that sez wut time u sent it
<mhz> there are some spanish speakers (like myself) subscribed to english lists as there were no spanish options :)
<mhz> MrMazda: okis
* mhz checking
<mhz> MrMazda: lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel-e
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> MrMazda: Date: 	Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:51:28 -0300
* MrMazda guessed wrong
<mhz> anything wrong there?
<MrMazda> I didn't think Chile was so far east
<mhz> ohh
<mhz> we are
<arkan0x> mhz, hay moin configurado , llegar y subir a un hosting >?
<mhz> arkan0x: holas
<mhz> arkan0x: puedes visitar #edubuntu-es ?
<mhz> bye all
<lancelot> help
<ribbo> Hi lancelot , I'll help, if I can.
<platos> hi, i have a question about the new dapper release
<platos> i've upgraded from breezy to dapper but now the clients won't load the pxelinux.cfg anymore
<platos> the change i've noticed with the breezy boots is that this line: ip=192.168.0.143:0.0.0.0:10.0.0.45:255.255.255.0 is different
<platos> it now has 0.0.0.0 , and i'm sure that before that there stood something else
<platos> can anyone help me with this?
<ribbo> platos: sorry not me, I have not used the dapper release yet. However, have you check dhpd.conf to see if the correct path is given for pxelinux ?
<lancelot> anybody here who install edubuntu on vmware machine
<platos> hm i'll check
<platos> i've installed it on vmware once
<platos> it runs pervfect
<platos> *perfect
<platos> just remember to create an second ethernet device if you want ltsp + internet\
<platos> well i think the correct path is used for ltsp
<platos> but the 0.0.0.0 is bugging me in the ip line
<ribbo> platos: does the thin client display an error message?
<platos> ribbo: well ultimately it says that it can't find linux
<platos> but that takes like 5 minutes
<ribbo> have you checked the obvious things? that the IP address of the server match those in the configuration files, that there is no firewall stopping tftp (if dapper uses tftp)?
<platos> well the other machine is plugged in thru an crossover cable, firestarter is not active and the server ip is correct
<platos> it worked before i changed the apt sources.list and typed apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
<ribbo> bleeding edge stuff, I suppose. I can only suggest that you double check all the configuration files.
<ribbo> oh, and make sure that tftp is running (once again if that is what dapper uses to serve the kernel to the thin clients.)
<platos> lol i havent checked that
<ribbo> brb
<platos> tftpd-hpa is running and setup correctly
<lancelot> help
<lucasvo> hello
<platos> hi, i'm back
<platos> still have the "Could not find kernel image: linux" error?
<platos> eh i still have the "Could not find kernel image: linux" error, and i don't know where to correct this
<platos> can someone help me with that?
<lucasvo> platos: is tftp working?
<platos> yeah tfptd-hpa is started and running
<platos> is there any way i could check this?
<platos> i am using the dapper release btw
<lucasvo> platos: I don't know
<lucasvo> ogra: ping!
<lucasvo> platos: are you using edubuntu server?
<lucasvo> platos: is it loading the 2. time or still the first?
<platos> lucasvo: everything worked in breezy, then did a dist-upgrade and then it doesnt works anymore
<lucasvo> oh!
<platos> i used the edubuntu-server package
<lucasvo> you shouldn't do dist-upgrade
<lucasvo> rathe du upgrade
<platos> eh i changed the repos first
<platos> i wanted to use dapper
<platos> cause ogra's sound script works in that version
<lucasvo> yeah, even if you change it, use upgrade afterward
<lucasvo> I updated without using dist-upgrade
<platos> eh why is there an dist-upgrade then?
<lucasvo> it is not working
<lucasvo> platos: is it already loading the 2. kernel?
<platos> no it is very slow on finding the configuration from pxelinux.cfg
<platos> and ultimately it can't find it and says: "Could not find kernel image: linux"
<platos> but i'm ghosting my server back to breezy as we speak
<platos> so i'll try an upgrade to dapper the right way this time
<lucasvo> platos: is there something like next-server.... in your /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf?
<platos> no
<platos> i'm using this server only
<platos> the thinclient gets an ip-adress
<lucasvo> you need to set next-server:SERVERIP;
<platos> the server has finished ghosting
<platos> could you give me clear directions on how to upgrade?
<lucasvo> platos: the way I did: change sources
<lucasvo> platos: sudo apt-get update
<lucasvo> sudo apt-get upgrade
<platos> you did this in terminal mode or in graphic mode?
<lucasvo> then save the output(all the packages who will be held back)
<lucasvo> platos: graphic
<lucasvo> platos: I was even working with everything?
<lucasvo> sorry, no ?
<platos> ok, i'
<platos> *i'll try it
<lucasvo> platos: there will probably be a whole load of packages being held back
<lucasvo> you need to install them afterwards manually
<lucasvo> (copy the output of apt) and use apt-get install ____HELDBACK___
<platos> well the way i did it was just hitting apt-get upgrade untill everything installed
<lucasvo> hm, that didn't work in my case
<platos> lucasvo: are you using the thin-client setup as well?
<lucasvo> platos: yes
<platos> lucasvo: with sound?
<lucasvo> platos: not yet
<platos> lucasvo: what did you answer at the question if login.defs should be overwritten?
<lucasvo> platos: which package?
<lucasvo> I think I typed yes
<platos> the login package
<platos> i'll just overwrite it
<lucasvo> you probably won't have customised loginscreen anymore :D
<platos> well no, what i do have is the same login screen on ltsp-login as the usual server
<platos> that looks a bit cooler than the standard one
<lucasvo> platos: in dapper the login screen is even better
<platos> on the ltsp-login or at the server?
<lucasvo> ltsp
<platos> eh in what way? i was using a different login at the breezy release... it looked like the normal edubuntu login
<lucasvo> it did?
<lucasvo> platos: are you using ubuntu ltsp implementation of ltsp?
<platos> i found some archive i had to extract in the chroot to make it look like the normal login
<lucasvo> platos: ah, this is the dapper version of login :D
<lucasvo> platos: so it won't change much
<platos> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/ <-- i found it at ogra's site
<lucasvo> I go no
<lucasvo> cu
<lucasvo> yeah, this is the dapper version
<platos> ok bye
<manu_ubu> hello
<manu_ubu> I have a question for the edubuntu dapper
<manu_ubu> install cd on ppc
<manu_ubu> ogra ?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> hi :)
<manu_ubu> you build with ubuntu base ?
<manu_ubu> hello
<ogra> yup
<ogra> underneath the edubuntu-desktop package, the system is identical to ubuntu
<ogra> the only changes are in the package selection of -desktop and the artwork
<ogra> (and some installer differences)
<manu_ubu> ok thank
<manu_ubu> other question, the liveCD edubuntu for PPC have size large 710Mo for the CD 
<ogra> yes, sadly, you need to use the "overburn" feature :/
<ogra> there will be parts dropped from the underlying ubuntu system in the near future, that should gain 13MB for all liveCDs 
<manu_ubu> I use DVD-RW for test
<ogra> (not only edubuntu)
<ogra> we will drop the casper livesystem in favor of some new stuff 
<ogra> the bootprocess will completely change for the live CD
<ogra> i.e. all languages will be on the CD and you will have a gui based language selection after booting ...
<manu_ubu> Ah ok, I see the liveCD x86 the boot is different to Breezy
<ogra> yup
<ogra> it will change more
<ogra> the whole boot, hardware detection and lanuage handling is being reworked
<manu_ubu> ok
<manu_ubu> thank , I go to job , Bye
<ogra> bye :)
<lucasvo> hi ogra 
<spacey> ogra, no ubuntu express?
<ogra> not yet
<ogra> spacey, there is not even been an upload to dapper yet
<Petaris> Hello
<Yagisan> spacey: ping
<spacey> Yagisan, pong
<Yagisan> spacey: you tried to send me a list the other day, but I fell asleep and couldn't receive it
<spacey> :>
<spacey> i'll send it again
<Yagisan> spacey: btw, did you check out iron chef ?
<jsgotangco> iron chef is awesome
<jsgotangco> at least its one cooking show i can really enjoy watching
<Yagisan> yep, michiba and sakai are the two best chefs
<spacey> hehe
<spacey> it was damn funny 
<spacey> and that american voice over
<spacey> almost made me cry
<jsgotangco> spacey, you find it funny but its really quite normal with east asian TV
<jsgotangco> heh
* Yagisan wishes he had the original japanese soundtrack
<Yagisan> at least Kaga is still in Japanese
<spacey> jsgotangco, the usa voiceover?
<jsgotangco> spacey, no the overall concept hehe
<spacey> ah ;P
* jsgotangco got to watch the usa voiceover as well
<spacey> they sometimes even fake a sort of accent
<Yagisan> s/sometimes/always
<jsgotangco> but any language used, the thing is that its still so damn funny
<spacey> hhehe
<spacey> yeah its quite nice
<jsgotangco> they were once challenged by the best french cook in tokyo
<Yagisan> even the challengers from Europe that a non-native english speakers get dubbed
<jsgotangco> yes
<Yagisan> s/a/are
<spacey> Yagisan, =) even when they speak english?
<Yagisan> yes
<jsgotangco> the duel gets really hard when they use fish
<spacey> thats insane:)
<Yagisan> if you listen carefully, you may hear their english in the background
<jsgotangco> Yagisan, do you know that videogame in the arcade where you use two huge drums
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: not really, I haven't been to an arcade since I met my wife
<jsgotangco> Yagisan, anyway it was awesome, some sort of ceremonial drum thing made into a video game like DDRF
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> s/DDRF/DDR
<jsgotangco> they even give you a small strip of cloth to tie around your head
<Yagisan> taiko drums ?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> huge badass drums
* Yagisan needs to add more boxes to his dvd-ripping ltsp cluster, main server is really beginning to lag
<Yagisan> spacey: that is one big list
<spacey> :o)
<Yagisan> Goodnight All
* a-865 waves to mhz
<mhz> a-865: hey
<mhz> neurogeek: hi there, are you available?
<neurogeek> mhz_BBS, now i am.. how are you?
<jelkner> ogra: oliver!
<ogra> yes ?
<jelkner> flight-2 is flying
<ogra> fine :)
<jelkner> but the dhcp server seems not to be working
<jelkner> is that intentional?
<mhz> jelkner: hi
<ogra> it does, pstream sillyness 
<ogra> *upstream
<jelkner> mhz: mauricio, cool, i wanted to ask you something...
<mhz> jelkner: me too
<mhz> :)
<jelkner> ahh (he says, not having *any* idea what psteam silliness is ;-)
<jelkner> am i done testing?
<ogra> they decided to introduce a change that breaks all ltsp setups with a minor upgrade ... while i would expect such in a major version change, they dont seem to care about users
<jelkner> it installs
<ogra> all ltsp setups in this case means *really all* not only ubuntu
<jelkner> should i try anything else or await further instructions from you
<jelkner> ?
<mhz> oh, we may have 'EduCrash"
<mhz> :)
<ogra> you can just add the netx-server directive to /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<ogra> *next-server
<jelkner> do you want me to do that, or just wait to test again?
* mhz is writing a proposal so if you need him, ping him, please.
<ogra>   option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
<ogra>   next-server 192.168.100.32;
<ogra>   filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";
<ogra>   option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
<ogra> thats how mine looks like ...
<jelkner> ogra: does this mean you *want* me to test this?
<ogra> use your server ip in the next-server field ...
<ogra> if you want to test ltsp ...
<jelkner> will that help you?
<jelkner> i don't need the machine to work
<jelkner> i'm only installing to test
<jelkner> i'll do whatever will help you
<jelkner> if you already know it is broke
<ogra> i know ltsp works for me... in case you want to test it, you need to add the line like above ...
<ogra> then dhcpd will work fine again
<jelkner> once again, will that give you any information that will be helpful to you?
<ogra> hmm ...
<ogra> if it wouldnt work, that might give me more info ...
<jelkner> ok, i'll try
<ogra> but its not  an obligatory test
<jelkner> if it works, we are finished until the next time
<ogra> yup
<ogra> you might see errors i dont experience here ...
<ogra> tat would be an intresting part ...
<littlepaul> ogra, what is the reason for implementing the next-server option in the dhcpd?
<ogra> note that the bootprocess didnt change much yet, i'll do some changes next week
<ogra> rfc compliance (in the opinion of the dhcp developers)
<ogra> while i think they *might* be right, its vey odd to introduce such a breaking change in an update from 3.0.2 to 3.0.3
<ogra> since nobody would expect his config to break in a minor version update ...
<littlepaul> ...
<ogra> if it is from 3.0.2 to 4.0.0, i'd expect breakage ...
<ogra> but thats just evil and ignorant to the users ...
<ogra> i'm considering to revert it for the time being ...
<ogra> or at least add a default ....
<ogra> since currently the next-server value doesnt point to the bootserver anymore, but gets zeroed out (0.0.0.0) which breaks all nfs boots that relie on this behavior
<littlepaul> reverting would be maby even so confusing
<ogra> *rely
<ogra> yes
<littlepaul> could you write a short note in the wiki?
<ogra> the idea is something like "next-server my-own-ip" as a default setting in the config ...
<ogra> if this is set is will behave like before ...
<ogra> i'll add a note if a decision was made 
<littlepaul> flight2 contained 3.0.2 or 3.0.3?
<neurogeek> mhz, ping
<ogra> dapper contains 3.0.3
<ogra> but we still discuss what to do ...
<mhz> neurogeek: pong
<neurogeek> mhz, hiow are you?? where you looking for me??
<mhz> neurogeek: some days ago, oliver and jerome mentioned that we may have MoinMoin wiki ready for schools environments if Moin had a GUI to its settings
<ogra> no necessarily a gui, but an easy setup procedure
<neurogeek> really?? I could help with that
<ogra> s/no/not/
<neurogeek> I just made an installer for Cuaima, based on dialog+python
<mhz> neurogeek: hehehe, that was my idea
<mhz> :)
<neurogeek> :D
<neurogeek> Nice
<ogra> currently i wouldnt want to give moin to  ateacher to set it up
<mhz> I immediately remember the Venezuelan power!
<mhz> neurogeek: and ogra has a nice point there
<neurogeek> LOL
<mhz> a 'regular' teacher would kick my chilean butt if i present him with a wikiconfig.py he has to edit manually :)
<neurogeek> ok.. i will work it out.. Graphical or Curses Based?? i guess Graphical, right?
<mhz> ogra? suggestion to neurogeek ?
<ogra> as you like
<neurogeek> We could do both.. Im not really into MoinMoin's code.. but i can try it out.. and if you guys help.. the best
<ogra> even html like mediawiki does would be fine ...
<neurogeek> Ok.. 
<ogra> the important part is, that it does not break existing configs 
<mhz> neurogeek: my best suggestion is you get into #moin and tell them you want to code a KISS moin installer
<ogra> i.e. on upgrades
<neurogeek> I'll be on it tonight...
<neurogeek> ogra, Ok.. 
<mhz> neurogeek: BTW, we have edubuntu-devel-es ML !! :)
<neurogeek> Thats Great!
<mhz> neurogeek: i have some ideas on what are the leves of complexity regarding moin installation
<mhz> so whatever you need, please ask and I'll be VERY happy to help too
<neurogeek> Excellent.. 
* mhz is no programmer, thought
<mhz> - t
<neurogeek> I will check on Moin's Installation and do something good with it.. though im no artist at all.. so i wouldn't expect nice icons or pics :D
<mhz> neurogeek: so can I tell Moin devel guys you'll have your hands on it?
<neurogeek> Yeah!
<mhz> neurogeek: I can help with iconinig
<mhz> or stuff
<mhz> and also with docing help for it
* mhz is SSSOOOOOOO happy!!
<neurogeek> Excellent.. because last time i tried to do an icon.. it looked like a completely different thing from the one in my thoughts :D
<mhz> neurogeek: muchisimas gracias! no sabes lo que significa ese instalador para mi.
<mhz> lol
<mhz> neurogeek: that happens
<neurogeek> mhz, no te preocupes.. estoy feliz de poder ayudar!!
<neurogeek> Jejeje
<jelkner> ogra: dhcp3 is still not starting
<jelkner> i added:  next-server 192.168.0.254
<ogra> thats your local IP ?
<jelkner> /etc/init.d/dhcp3/restart failed
<jelkner> yes
<ogra> and the interface is up too ? 
<jelkner> yes, i'm ssh'd in
<jelkner> so it must be ;-)
<mhz> neurogeek: i have just mentioned your name in the hall of fame of moin developers :D
<ogra> can you paste the dhcp related part of /var/log/daemon.log to pastebin ? 
<jelkner> pastbin?
<ogra> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/
<ogra> there must be a few lines saying whats wrong
<jelkner> hold on, i'm missing a semicolon
<ogra> ah :)
<ogra> i made the same mistake last week :)
<neurogeek> mhz, great!! .. going to work hard on that!!
<mhz> thx a lot
<jelkner> and it worked!
<ogra> :)
<jelkner> now let me boot a client
* mhz crosses fingers
<mhz> and toes :)
<jelkner> ogra: it doesn't work
<jelkner> so i actually did something useful ;-)
<jelkner> it partially works
<jelkner> it gets a kernel
<ogra> where does it hang ? 
<ogra> ok
<jelkner> hold on...
<ogra> did it drop you to a busybox shell ? 
<jelkner> mout: I/O error
<ogra> try a second time ...
<jelkner> short read: 0 < 28
<jelkner> ok
<ogra> without touching the server please 
<ogra> i bet its a nfs timeout ...
<ogra> that goes away on second boot
<jelkner> yup, it worked!
<ogra> oki, its still the same error we had in breezy ...
<jelkner> yup
<jelkner> so we know we still have it
<ogra> we just had worked around it there with a 3 second sleep before mounting ...
<ogra> but thats not really acceptable ..
<ogra> ok, i know where to look, thanks a lot ...
<jelkner> sure, let me know when to test more
<ogra> does the themed ldm look ok for you ? 
<jelkner> great!
<ogra> oki
<jelkner> question: will folks be able to choose languages?
<ogra> i dumbed it down a bit for now ... the menus are optional at the moment ...
<jelkner> that is turning out to be really important
<jelkner> ok, so we will have that back by dapper, yes?
<jelkner> besides, languages don't work now, right
<jelkner> the bug you told us about
<ogra> only if i find the time to get it working ... or someone sends a sane patch i can apply 
<jelkner> so we should be choosing them anyway
<jelkner> ogra: you are overworked!
<ogra> currently my focus is on the specs that are in the work... then the local devices ... 
<jelkner> cool
<ogra> if we still have time after that, i'll look into it ... i have to set priorities
<jelkner> well, let me know when to test again
<ogra> yup
<jelkner> definitely
<ogra> i'll get to the ppc breakage next ... 
<jelkner> thanks!
<jelkner> mhz: do you have a moment?
<mhz> shoot
<mhz> (i dont have a moment but if not now... when?) :D
<jelkner> mhz: are you going to be around for a bit?
<jelkner> some students just walked in wishing to learn python
<jelkner> i need to teach...
<lucasvo> hi jelkner 
<mhz> sure
<mhz> this my 2nd house, jelkner 
<jelkner> ok, bb in about 45 minutes
<jelkner> lol
<mhz> see ya
<mhz> jelkner: if not here, i'll be back soon
<lucasvo> jelkner: what are you(as a teacher) using PC in classes for?
<mhz_ODP> ogra: where is your last talk about edubuntu in the wiki?
<ogra> there is no wikipage ...
<mhz_ODP> iirc you had some screenshots of edubuntu apps
<ogra> only two pdf's
<mhz_ODP> ahh
<mhz_ODP> booh
<ogra> the screenshots are ripped off the edubuntu tour page 
<mhz_ODP> okis
<mhz_ODP> thx
<AvantGarde> Hi, can someone help me with LDAP on EDUBUNTU?
<lucasvo> AvantGarde: sure
<lucasvo> AvantGarde: just ask a question
<pablo--mvd> hi! how do i configure xserver from comand line?
<jelkner> anyone know how to reach mhz ?
<jelkner> mhz_ODP: is this you, mauricio?
<jelkner> anyone here?
<jelkner> seeing no one, i'll head out to dinner...
<jelkner> mhz: i'll catch you tomorrow...
<agente87> hi 
<agente87> lucasvo how do you do?
<lucasvo> agente87: good, and you?
<agente87> fine, my classroom is improving
<agente87> i'm using samba to share a folder
<agente87> edubuntu doesn't have moodle installed?
<lucasvo> agente87: not at the moment, it is too buggy
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$ apt-cache search moodle
<lucasvo> moodle - Course Management System for Online Learning
<lucasvo> agente87: it even has one
<lucasvo> it is in dapper at least
<agente87> i'm installing it, how can i access?
<lucasvo> agente87: I don't know
<agente87> thanks lucas
<lucasvo> agente87: is it working?
<agente87> not now
<agente87> i'm trying
<agente87> i will install moodle in my school
<mhz> moodle is good
#edubuntu 2005-12-25
<lancelot> anybody here who can help me.  i was able to pxe boot but cannot continue.  the screen shows begin: running /scripts/nfs-premount then it shows done and connect then the error says connection time-out
<mhz> lancelot: hi
<lancelot> hi
<mhz> did you read InstallNotes before actual install ?
<lancelot> yes
<mhz> sorry, but I have to ask ;)
<mhz> ok, how much ram do you have in client?
<mhz> and how much ram in server?
<lancelot> i followed everything
<lancelot> server has 256 mb ram
<lancelot> client has 324 ram
<mhz> okis, one variable less to consider
<mhz> was this the first time you booted via PXE this client?
<lancelot> yes
<mhz> did you try a second or third time wih same client?
<mhz> +t
<mhz> are you using breezy (5.10) ?
<mhz> or testing dapper
<lancelot> yes im using brezzy
<mhz> okis
<mhz> and the other questions?
<mhz> lancelot: ?
<lancelot> im just wondering why the client boot stops at begin: running /scripts/nfs-premount
<mhz> lancelot: but did you try booting 2nd time or third time with same client?
<lancelot> yes
<lancelot> it stops at begin: running /scripts/nfs-premount done
<mhz> hmmm, I had same trouble the 1st and 2nd time
<mhz> 3rd times as cools
<mhz> and it was a known bug
<mhz> lancelot: have you updated ssh-keys?
<lancelot> no i have nt yet
<mhz> lstp-update-sshkeys
<mhz> and then try again
<lancelot> ok
<lancelot> mhz you are the man
<lancelot> i boots now
<lancelot> thanks
<lancelot> but i dont have mouse input
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> ooops
<mhz> :)
<mhz> lancelot: I am very sure i heard some guys complaining about same issues 3 weeks ago
<mhz> but I have no clue how they solved it, sorry, lancelot 
<mhz> ogra: ping
<mhz> ogra: could you give some hints to lancelot about mouse input not working after booting PXE?
<lancelot> starting hotplug subsystem fail
<mhz> ohhh
<mhz> have you tried same client, diff mouse?
<lancelot> yea same thing i have two client now
<mhz> hmmm, weired indeed
<mhz> lancelot: if ogra is not here, i dont know who else I could ask
<mhz> :)
<mhz> could you try with the guys in #ltsp ?
<mhz> i know ogra has been very close to them and they to us
<lancelot> ok
<mhz> lancelot: sorry I can't help you
<lancelot> mhz: tnx 
<mhz> yw
* mhz goes to sleep
<zhx> hello?
<platos> Hi, can anyone tell me how to give my clients an dynamically generated hostname?
<platos> Through dhcp that is.
<jsgotangco> hey all
<ogra> hi
<jsgotangco> hey ogra how's it going? good i hope
<ogra> yup, all fine
<jsgotangco> JaneW, ping?
<ogra> she said goodbye for the day
<jsgotangco> oh right
* jsgotangco needed to ask her something about her homeland
<jsgotangco> ogra, busy?
<ogra> so, so
<jsgotangco> ogra, can i pm you for a minute?
<ogra> yup
<Hendrik> Hi guys, My first time here. Question: Can I use Kubuntu as a client for and edubuntu LTSP, or how can I change to KDE in Edubuntu? New to both Linux and Edubuntu.
<ogra> you just install kubuntu-desktop on the server ....
<pablo--mvd> hi!
<Hendrik> Consider me totally ignorant; sorry. How do I do that?
<ogra> the ltsp clients are diskless, they use the servers desktop ...
<pablo--mvd> how do i install a .deb downloaded from internet?
<ogra> ltsp only boots them up and starts an X server
<Hendrik> Thx. I kinda have that part figured out. Got a workstation booting up to it just fine. How do I change the desktop on the server tho? Thx for your help
<ogra> use synaptic from the system menu ... search for kubuntu-desktop and install it
<Hendrik> Thx, I will try that. Thx for your help ogra. Cheers
<ogra> pablo--mvd, are you sure the deb doesnt exist in ubuntu ? and are you sure its compiled for ubuntu ? 
<pablo--mvd> hi! ive installed iopera browser from a downloaded .deb file from opera site
<pablo--mvd> but now the opera icon doesnt apear in the menues
<pablo--mvd> :(
<pablo--mvd> how do i fix this?
<ogra> add it with the menu editor
<pablo--mvd> tyhe .deb downloaed was said to be for ubunto distro
<ogra> (right click the menu icon)
<ogra> then its fine ...
<pablo--mvd> hi! ive installed edubuntu server ok but now.. how do i install thinclientes?
<pablo--mvd> i know edubuntu has the ltsp inclueded
<pablo--mvd> how do i instal a thin client so that i boots and connects to the edubuntu server via ltsp?
<lucasvo> ehm, You need to find out if the NIC are compatible
<lucasvo> do you have PXE?
<ogra> pablo--mvd, you read the installatio help mentioned in the topic of this channel ?
<lucasvo> ogra: I didn't find anything about setting up clients in the edubuntu wiki
<ogra> you dont set them up, you just boot them if the server is set up correctly ...
<ogra> (i supposed you know that=
<ogra> )
<vmarks> you must have PXE. often built into the bios of machines that come with ethernet on the motherboard. Set boot order to 1st device: network and see if it works.
* vmarks slinks off into the darkness. until next class when he teaches 6th graders.
<lucasvo> I don't have PXE, I am using rom Images
<vmarks> right, off of floppies?
<lucasvo> vmarks: yes
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
<vmarks> I have some cards that have roms on them with etherboot, and simply was unable to make them work and retain the PXE clients.
<ogra> there is at least one do how to use etherboot floppies on the clients
<ogra> what else would you want to set up on a client ? 
<ogra> vmarks, etherboot is yet untested, i recieved some NICs for dapper testing, but didnt get to it yet 
<ogra> i hope i can make it work out of the box like PXE for dapper
<lucasvo> ogra: but there isn't any link from EdubuntuInstallNotes
<lucasvo> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPClientSetup
<ogra> feel free to add one
<lucasvo> ogra: ^^^ I did
<ogra> s/bootrom technology/boot protocol/
<ogra> s/an be written to an EPROM, or written to a floppy disk./an be written to an EPROM, a CD-Rom or to a floppy disk./
<ogra> else its fine :)
<ogra> did you link it from anywhere ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: yes, from EdubuntInstallNotes
<ogra> great :)
<lucasvo> ah, this is crap
<ogra> ??
<lucasvo> one should makr trivial changes all the time, I always forget it, poor subsrcibers who get mail because of me 10x
<ogra> heh...
<lucasvo> ogra: would it do any harm to http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup if one would add the next-server already now?
<lucasvo> ogra: in that case people will have less problems
<ogra> i'll add it to the default file in the next ltsp upload ...
<ogra> i'm not yet sure we will keep it at all ...
<ogra> but make a comments section at the bottom of the page and put a note there if you like
<ogra> and point out that it only applies to dapper *now* and might still change during development ...
<lucasvo> hm, I can't find the page anymore, something similar to LTSPServerSetup
<ogra> its linked from the InstallNotes
<lucasvo> ah, LTSPHowto
<ogra> argh, nope
<ogra> thats only for hoary and earlier
<ogra> please dont link it to anything breezy related
<lucasvo> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPHowTo
<ogra> yes
<ogra> thats not related to breezy or newer ...
<lucasvo> Please read the LTSPClientSetup. < not linked
<lucasvo> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPClientSetup exists
<ogra> yes, but thats not clean wiki annotation, sou it needs correct quoting ... see the install notes 
<lucasvo> ogra: I updated EdubuntuInstallNotes, ok?
<ogra> could you put it at the end of the section ? so that the keymap setting is above ? 
<ogra> i.e. swap the lines ...
<lucasvo> ok
<lucasvo> oO(one can not have problems with keyboard, if no clients are working)
<lucasvo> :D
<ogra> thats true, but the setting belongs to server setup ...
<lucasvo> correct
<pablo--mvd> if in the same net: can thin clients access a windows 2003 domain shared folder?
<pablo--mvd> suposing that the permisions are ok 
<lucasvo> pablo--mvd: yes, but actually it would be more reasonable to mount it on the server
<lucasvo> because the applications are running on the server
<lucasvo> the client is nothing more than a box with keyboard and mouse, the programms run on the server
<pablo--mvd> ok
<pablo--mvd> thanks
<pablo--mvd> mm and what if ive have a dhcp already running in my net (where im going to install the edubuntu server?)
<pablo--mvd> cant i use the one ive already have? 
<ogra> if its a linux server or you know how to set it up rigth for netbooting, sure
<lucasvo> pablo--mvd: I have it the same way...
<lucasvo> pablo--mvd: how to do it:
<lucasvo> pablo--mvd: my dhcp configuration: http://pastebin.com/472077
<lucasvo> pablo--mvd: sudo apt-get remove ltsp-server-standalone
<lucasvo> pablo--mvd: sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
<lucasvo> pablo--mvd: dhcpserver=ltspserver
<ogra> lucasvo, he wants to use an already existent dhcp server in his net
<ogra> i.e. dhcpserver!=ltspserver
<ogra> and please dont advise people to remove -standalone if they want to use dhcpd locally, thats very hard to support ...
<lucasvo> ogra: why?
<lucasvo> ogra: why is it hard to support?
<ogra> because it can take you hours to find out someone tolde them to break their config
<lucasvo> it is not breaking config, it is just "using another dhcp server"
<ogra> it is "using the same one with a non standard config nobody expects"
<lucasvo> ogra: how would one have to set the dhcp-config, that it works with dhcp!=ltsp?
<ogra> i.e. using /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf 
<ogra> sudo apt-get remove dhcp3-server
<lucasvo> :(
<lucasvo> why should I remove it?
<ogra> that removes -standalone as well
<ogra> because its not used
<pablo--mvd> wait. let me explain. i want to run edubuntu server (linux termina server) in an enviroment
<pablo--mvd> enviroment=net thats a windows 2003 domain
<pablo--mvd> ive already have a dhcp running there
<ogra> so make sure the windows dhcp server points the clients to the bootimage on the ltsp server ...
<pablo--mvd> ill make my thin clients (very old machines) boot from their own harddisk
<ogra> and remove dhcp3-server from the edubuntu box
<lucasvo> pablo--mvd: you need to configure the windows dhcp server for pxe boot
<pablo--mvd> no no i dont have pxe on my thin clients
<pablo--mvd> im planning to boot then from their own hard disk
<ogra> but the edubuntu images are PXE ones
<ogra> you need to adjust the win server to make the clients use the image from the edubuntu server ...
<ogra> no idea how one does that on windows
<ogra> and the clients need PXE emulation in the etherboot image enabled, as described on the wiki
<pablo--mvd> ok but. cant i boot the thin clients from their own hard disk and and the end of that boot process connect to the edubuntu server
<pablo--mvd> for using its x fpor example?
<ogra> hmm, yes, but you are on yourt own with this setup ...
<pablo--mvd> apolications and so on?
<pablo--mvd> :(
<ogra> thats not even remotely ltsp
<ogra> you could try a "server" install from the edubuntu CD on the clients and install the ltsp-client package there ... and then take a wee or two of hacking the ltsp client bootscripts to make that work ..
<ogra> s/wee/week
<ogra> thats a lot of fiddling
<pablo--mvd> i thought  that ltsp allowed me to do that (have a x server) and thin clients (boot from pxe, floppy, hd etc etc) 
<lucasvo> (boot from pxe < you can do this
<pablo--mvd> and that thin clients at the end of their boot process conect to the x server (in this case the edubuntu server) but maybe im wrong :(
<ogra> ltsp allows you to boot the system from tftp ... and mount the rootfs via NFS
<ogra> thats not how ltsp works
<lucasvo> pablo--mvd: why don't you want to use pxe?
<pablo--mvd> the thin clients are very old machines whit isa network cards!
<pablo--mvd> they dont hace pxe
<pablo--mvd> have pxe
<ogra> ltsp boots a minimal system on the client it obtains the kernel via tftp, mounts / via nfs and starts an X server on the client ...
<lucasvo> pablo--mvd: you can boot from floppy
<lucasvo> pablo--mvd: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPClientSetup?highlight=%28ltsp%29
* ogra has to attend a meeting now in #ubuntu-meeting
<lucasvo> ogra: community council?
<ogra> yup
<lucasvo> pablo--mvd: do they have floppy disk?
<pablo--mvd> yes the have
<pablo--mvd> they also have hd
<pablo--mvd> my plann is to meke them boot from ther hd
<pablo--mvd> but dont know how to (at the end of that boot) connect to the edubuntu server
<ogra> you can put the etherboot image on the hd like described on the wii
<ogra> and use ltsp as usual
<pablo--mvd> so that they can use the X
<pablo--mvd> aplications et cet c
<ogra> yup
<lucasvo> pablo--mvd: do they have a CD drive?
<pablo--mvd> no they dont
<Hemet_Ka> P3L|C4N0,  can I talk to you by query?
<ogra> just copy the etherboot image on the HD like the wiki describes 
<ogra> then make sure your win dhcp points the clients to the edubuntu server for the tftp stuff ...
<lucasvo> pablo--mvd: 1. find the nic ID
<lucasvo> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe < step 1
<pablo--mvd> ok thnaks im reading the wiki
<lucasvo> ogra: why should one participate the edubuntu team?
<ogra> because you have an interest in edubuntu ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: hm, so I "don't" have to activly develop edubuntu?
<ogra> lucasvo, doing active work on edubuntu would include writing docs, giving support and everything else that helps it ..
<irvin> lucasvo, you don't need too
<lucasvo> ogra: so could I join?
<ogra> or promote it on fairs ... or hang around here and give valuable comments ;)
<ogra> sure :)
<hybrid> will there be Edubuntu discs with Dapper?
<ogra> there are :)
<ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-December/000927.html
<ogra> stay away from the current dailies, they are broken ...
<hybrid> i mean shipit Cds
<ogra> nope
<ogra> oh, i mean yes, thats planned
<hybrid> lol
<ogra> but there are none for breezy
<hybrid> cool
<hybrid> so i have seen
<ogra> but it will be a very limited amount
<irvin> someone has to sponsor it :-)
<hybrid> well i will start preparing around march or so
<hybrid> ;)
<ogra> sabdfl does ... but only a limited amount
<hybrid> i am thinking of installing it on a comp for my younder brothers
<ogra> you can buy the breezy CDs in several online shops if you dont have a CD writer 
<ogra> i.e. amu sells them ...
<hybrid> its not that
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/GettingEdubuntu
<hybrid> its my connection sucks
<ogra> they are very cheap ... 
<ogra> less than $2 or 2 
<hybrid> i wish i was around alot of Linux people
<hybrid> i would do an installfest
* lucasvo wishes that to
* lucasvo has requested to join edubuntu team
* ogra will approve you as soon as he gets the launchpad mail
<lucasvo> ogra: thanks
<lucasvo> hm, how did you do your hackergotchi?
<ogra> with gimp
<lucasvo> ogra: I had hours to do it :D
<lucasvo> https://launchpad.net/people/lucasvo
<ogra> takes me 10 mins to do one ...
<lucasvo> ogra: how do you do it/
<ogra> took me more time to remove the dark shadows below my eyes ;)
<lucasvo> :-)
<ogra> you did fiddle with the shadow settings ... 
<ogra> you should leave the default or at least onyl adjust it minimally ... but you centered it
<lucasvo> hm?
<lucasvo> how can one do shadow?
<ogra> in yours ...
<ogra> how did you do it ? 
<ogra> there is a shadow filter in gimp, that does it for you
<ogra> or a script-fu
<lucasvo> ok
<ogra> use the magic wnd to make a clean cut out of your head, use fuzzy edges there ... 
<ogra> then just use the shadow function and align the layers that it creates a bit
<ogra> s/wnd/wand
<lucasvo> where is the shadow function?
<ogra> anywhere in script-fu
<ogra> or in the filters
<ogra> drop shadow ...
<pablo--mvd> is ltsp included en edubuntu latest release?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> its installed by default
<lucasvo> hi MrMazda 
<lucasvo> hi kjcole 
<MrMazda> lucasvo: :)
<MrMazda> now using SeaMonkey 1.0b, just released today
<kjcole> Hi,  I'm just experimenting with X-Chat to see if I like it better than Konversation.  So far, the answer's "No".
<lucasvo> kjcole: irssi is the best
<lucasvo> 100% bloatware free (tm)
* MrMazda only uses Chatzilla
<kjcole> lucasvo, have you used the others?  (I used Chatzilla briefly too, but find myself liking Konversation a lot.)
<lucasvo> kjcole: yes, I use gaim for msn and for other irc networks I rarely go to
<lucasvo> I also used Xchat for a little bit 
<lucasvo> and mIRC :P
<lucasvo> but I couldn't live without irssi
<kjcole> lucasvo, I meant comparing it with konversation (which does seem bloated).
<lucasvo> kjcole: I don't know konversation
* ogra likes xchat
<lucasvo> I only know, as soon as my sister uses it over ltsp, my server slows down
<lucasvo> http://pchb1f.gallaudet.edu/~kjcole/Edubuntu/Cookbook/ < kjcole, launchpad is linking to it, what should be in there?
<kjcole> lucasvo, That's good to know, as I keep threatening to set up Edubuntu somewhere around campus.
* lucasvo would like to write for edubuntu cookbook
<kjcole> lucasvo, it's the bzr repository.
<lucasvo> kjcole: ah, ok
<ogra> i havent seen any slowdowns caused by other software than oo.o or firefox
<lucasvo> it's the whole kde who get's loaded
<ogra> especially not with only one client ...
<kjcole> lucasvo, My co-re-writer and I were hoping to make a first pass through stuff before unleashing it on an unsuspecting world. ;-)
<ogra> oh, you meant konversation
<ogra> i though you talked about xchat :)
<lucasvo> ogra: No, not at all
<kjcole> ogra, spoken like the guy who's done all the hard work. ;-)
<ogra> running KDE apps in gnome is as evil as running gnome apps in KDE :)
<ogra> ressource wise ....
<kjcole> lucasvo: Jeff Elkner convinced me to give Lore a whirl as our document format, and at least a few docteam members said they didn't care what the format was.  They'd convert to whatever they liked when we finished.
* lucasvo was at the meating when it was discussed
<kjcole> lucasvo: Oops.  Sorry.  I lose track.
<lucasvo> but I neither know Lore nor Tex nor SGML
<lucasvo> kjcole: no problem
<kjcole> ogra, I started with the Edubuntu CD and then loaded KDE on and switched to that as my preferred system.  
<lucasvo> kjcole: uhm, kda
<lucasvo> *kde
<kjcole> ogra, Funny: Until switching to Ubuntu, I hated KDE.  (My RHEL and Fedora systems all run GNOME.)
<lucasvo> until switching to ubuntu I hated gnome
<lucasvo> I only knew SuSE 
<lucasvo> kjcole: are you trying to do a book, which could be printed as well? someting more stable than wiki?
<kjcole> lucasvo: Started with Slackware which I've mostly forgotten, as it was traumatic. ;-)  Then Red Hat for years, with a very brief exposure to Gentoo.  Now Ubuntu.
<lucasvo> SuSE -> pause -> SuSE -> Ubuntu -> Debian -> Hoary -> Edubuntu -> Edubuntu Dapper 
<kjcole> lucasvo: Yeah.  The document we're basing ours on is approximately 150 printed 8.5" x 11" pages.
<lucasvo> kjcole: planning to release it on paper? 
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~/ubuntu$ bzr get http://pchb1f.gallaudet.edu/~kjcole/Edubuntu/Cookbook/
<kjcole> Lore generates nice HTML and nice PDF.  We've talked about trying to get it published too.
<lucasvo> bzr: ERROR: Error retrieving http://pchb1f.gallaudet.edu/~kjcole/Edubuntu/Cookbook/.bzr/weaves/2a/9.png-20051204145435-503f12e97f48db0a.weave: <urlopen error (-2, 'Name or service not known')>
<kjcole> lucasvo: How VERY strange... Seems like it crapped out right in the middle of doing stuff.
<lucasvo> exactly
<lucasvo> about 33%
<ogra> hmm, a bug ? 
<kjcole> lucasvo: Hold a sec, lemme see if something's up (or down) at this end.
<lucasvo> bzr (bazaar-ng) 0.7pre
<ogra> ask in #bzr 
<lucasvo> ogra: how many cd's will be pressed for edubuntu?
<lucasvo> will there be pressed dvd?
<ogra> *some thousands* is the wording i heard
<ogra> nope, no DVD
<kjcole> lucasvo: All appears to be up here.
<kjcole> lucasvo: (And I'm also running 0.7pre.)
<lucasvo> hm :(
<kjcole> lucasvo: Just to be certain, I checked to make sure the weave file was there, and it is.
<lucasvo> :(
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~/ubuntu/Cookbook$ bzr pull
<lucasvo> bzr: ERROR: No pull location known or specified.
<lucasvo> The requested URL /~kjcole/Edubuntu/Cookbook/.bzr/weaves/4f/bootloaderinmemory.png-20051203011241-00800827f71ffdb7.weave: was not found on this server.
<lucasvo> too late already to solve this today
<kjcole> lucasvo: Have you used bzr much with other stuff?
<lucasvo> kjcole: ehm yes, with ogra's ldm and s-c-p
<kjcole> lucasvo: That suggests to me that the problem's at my end... But I need to leave in a few minutes.
<lucasvo> how can I update bzr archive/
<kjcole> (Again though, the file's right here.)
<lucasvo> bzr get?
<kjcole> lucasvo: No clue.  I'm fairly new to the whole RCS world.  Never used anything before bzr and am only beginning with that.
<lucasvo> kjcole: how do you update your bzr sources?
<kjcole> Gotta run...
<lucasvo> kjcole: bye
#edubuntu 2006-12-18
<Burgundavia> ogra: ltsp 127: anything that an end user would salivate over?
<cbx33> hey ogra did ya get my patch?
<willvdl> hey folks, seems the Topic Based Help is now going into the doc-team svn trunk.
<willvdl> I'll be spending some time looking at it to see how it will affect our edubuntu docs
<willvdl> and then getting the planning page back up
<cbx33> w00t
<cbx33> hi willvdl
<willvdl> looks like a bit of work to get fluent with the changes
<willvdl> but the doc team are quite excited
<cbx33> excellet
<cbx33> just got your mail
<willvdl> glad to see there'e a bzr branch
<willvdl> but we can use the svn we have too
<willvdl> lunch time- > bb in hour
<rodarvus> good morning
<cbx33> hey rodarvus
<rockprincess> hello everybody!
<cbx33> hi rockprincess
<rockprincess> hello cbx33! i've got good news.....in fact very good news :D
<cbx33> go for it
<rockprincess> i'm allowed to do my edubuntu uni project :D
<cbx33> reallY ?
<cbx33> W00000000000T
<rockprincess> i'm starting in february :D
<cbx33> great news
<cbx33> rockprincess: you star
<rockprincess> i'll take the time during the xmas holidays to prepare everything that needs to be prepared in order to run smoothly :D
<rockprincess> and then by the beginning of february i'll start and build my wee network in the school :D
<rockprincess> it's such a relief, really....i've been looking forward to doing this for the past 2 months really :D
<cbx33> w00tie
<rockprincess> i'm sooo eager to start...
<rockprincess> one more exam is keeping away from starting though....but by friday i will start building my concept :D
<one> bagaimana cara konfigurasi vga card klien
<one> sorry saya pake edubuntu 10
<willvdl> RichEd ping
<RichEd> hey willvdl
<willvdl> Hey, just looking for your thoughts on the two landing pages for edubuntu: www and wiki
<willvdl> seems to be some duplication of content
<RichEd> sure ... I am pouring a drink (soft) and then will be back in 2 min ... a trifle warm in my little office today
<willvdl> getting colder here by the minute
* RichEd listens to willvdl 
<willvdl> what do you think we should do with wiki landing page? what sort of content
<RichEd> I presume you mean www.edubuntu.org ?
<RichEd> i mean wiki.edubuntu.org
<RichEd> doh
<willvdl> wiki.e.o/EdubuntuWiki
<willvdl> vs www.edubuntu.org
* willvdl is looking at how kubuntu organise web-space
<willvdl> also, is there any possibility we could get wiki.edubuntu.org point to the actual wiki instead of the ubuntu wiki?
<RichEd> I was just looking at that now :) as in we have no control over the landing page
<willvdl> e.g. if you're on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki and you click on "Home" in top right then it takes you to ubuntu wiki
<ogra> what would "the actual wiki" be ?
<RichEd> I would say that we should assume from 1st principles, that our audience is a potential user, who is not familiar with wiki and open source community conventions / resources ...
<willvdl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuWiki in this case I guess
<willvdl> ogra ^^^
<ogra> yep
<RichEd> And assume that they arrive at our front door "www.edubuntu.org" via an install link, or a CD jacket, or wherever
<willvdl> kubuntu do it like we do
<RichEd> Then www.edubuntu.org should have a clear "map" of the resources, prominent, visible at a glance.
<cbx33> ogra: w00t
<cbx33> you're here?
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> WOW
<willvdl> kubuntu keep minimal info on www.kubuntu.com, only news and links to docs or wiki
<cbx33> ogra: get my patch?
<RichEd> And one of these resources is the wiki ... and we should link to a wiki front door page that gives some quick intro to "wikis in general, their characterstics, and then an explation of how we use our wiki".
<cbx33> hehe
<RichEd> And perhaps this could be: wiki.edubuntu.org/AboutEdubuntuWiki ?
<willvdl> EdubuntuWiki/About :)
<RichEd> close enough ...
<willvdl> that leaves the www site uncluttered for future drupal work
<RichEd> It may be an idea that we ask the chief wiki admin to do a check on the referrer url, and if it is wiki.edubuntu.org, then it loads an Edubuntu page ? OPTION 1
<cbx33> RichEd: that's what I wanted
<RichEd> Or else, that we ask for a wiki.ubuntu.com default page that is a landing page for BOTH edubuntu and ubuntu, and explains how the wiki works for both, and gives an idea of how to browse by product category ? OPTION 2
<ogra> cbx33, no, you didnt attach anything, please resend :)
<cbx33> no way
<cbx33> argh
<RichEd> Where #2 depends on the decision non how categorisation / tags will be set-up / work ...
<cbx33> hehe
<RichEd> *decision on how
<cbx33> don;t have it here.....was so keen to send it to you ;)
<willvdl> RichEd, #2 will be a doc-team/website-team decision
<RichEd> yep ... so my approach would be ... build our about page ... and make this the main link from www.edubuntu.org
<RichEd> Then show the doc team the benefit of our page ... (better user understanding) ... and then suggest they could also work with the same idea ?
<RichEd> (easier to show than to describe)
<cbx33> ogra: got a sec in pm?
<willvdl> kubuntu already do that
<willvdl> as do ubuntu
<RichEd> what do you mean "as do ubuntu" ...
<willvdl> ubuntu wiki is generic across distros
<willvdl> hosts LP specs etc.
<willvdl> main concern is the "Home" link on wiki.edubuntu.org goes to wiki.ubuntu.com and not /EdubuntuWiki
<rockprincess> why is there no edubuntu message board? does it mean support/advice is only given through IRC/mailing lists and ubuntuforums.org ?
<RichEd> my comment is w.r.t. wiki.ubuntu.com default page is a guide yes, but it is a guide to the ubuntu or general purpose wiki ... it would be nice if it was explained to people (on arrival) that the wiki.ubuntu is the same site as wiki.edubuntu and wiki.kubuntu and give some clue as to how to either browse or search by product, or at least be aware that the wiki is multi-purpose.
<RichEd> rockprincess: for the moment yes. we are building an ubuntu education community space with drupal, and will have some education forums there.
<RichEd> This will primarily be an end user space.
<willvdl> oh. gotcha
<RichEd> Tech people prefer IRC and mailing lists. End users prefer forums. We are keeping the mail lists as the official (and approved and accurate) support channel, and will work out how to bridge the forums to the mail lists.
<willvdl> agree on that as course of action.
<RichEd> :)
<willvdl> will look into registering bug/spec on LP
<cbx33> ogra: http://pastebin.ca/280319
<cbx33> will that do
<cbx33> I went through the archives and found the pastebin
<cbx33> ogra: I added tooltips too
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> bbia30ms
<rockprincess> has anyone heard of the BBC The Codebreakers Documentary?
<willvdl> not yet. what is it?
<cbx33> rockprincess: yes
<rockprincess> cbx33: i'm trying to download the DVD iso file, because the ogg files is small but looks rather dodgy :( it's a superb documentary and i've just watched it for the 2nd time....
<cbx33> ahh.....I'm not sure where it would be available from
<rockprincess> cbx33: i've shown it to my professor today, as it was my main inspiration and she was rather impressed :D
<rockprincess> cbx33: there you go: http://www.iosn.net/publications/multimedia/the-codebreakers-1/codebreakers.iso.torrent ;)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> is it legally downloadable from there?
<cbx33> wow
<cbx33> cool
<rockprincess> yep :)
<rockprincess> see this: http://www.iosn.net/publications/multimedia/the-codebreakers-1/
<rockprincess> it seems like an official site
<cbx33> certainly does
<rockprincess> on another note i found this: http://www.apdip.net/news/eventatwsisvdo .... seems rather interesting as well ;)
<rockprincess> richard stallman seems quite radical, but certainly he seems very convincing as well :D
<willvdl> RichEd, we should update http://www.edubuntu.org/help...
<RichEd> willvdl: loading it now ...
<RichEd> willvdl: list what pages you think we should update, with comments. We can all share work on the content.
<willvdl> OK, I reckon the best way to do this is to:
<willvdl> use cbx33's existing https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWikiCleanup
<willvdl> create a temporary wiki category "CategoryEdubuntuCleanup" for flagging pages that need deletion or updating
<RichEd> okay ... I'll bookmark that ... and revisit
<willvdl> BTW: there is a https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTODO and https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuToDo. ogra, let's use latter and use redirect if you've got links set up?
<bddebian> Heya
<willvdl> hey
<willvdl> ogra: there is a https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTODO and EdubuntuToDo. can we use latter name rather?
<ogra> ok
<ogra> wipe my page then
<willvdl> cool. working on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWikiCleanup
<cbx33> ogra: did you get my message
<cbx33> http://pastebin.ca/280319
<cbx33> that's the patch
<cbx33> I'll mail it to you later ;)
<cbx33> I'm off
<cbx33> bye all
<willvdl> ciao
<willvdl> ogra, can the SFD stuff on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWikiCleanup be deleted?
<cbx33> ogra, you around?
<cbx33> hey willvdl howz the wiki going?
<willvdl> cbx33: check  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWikiCleanup
<cbx33> crikey ;)
<willvdl> should work with least intrusion...
<cbx33> yeh totally
<willvdl> like the floating dynamic category table :)
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> the teachers pet page
<cbx33> is like cstudent control panel
<willvdl> saw that. looks interesting
<cbx33> well yes
<cbx33> was last updated a while ago
<willvdl> we must work on a home for stuff like that
<cbx33> Yes
<cbx33> The teaching tools page needs to be merged with something
<cbx33> and checked to see if still current
<willvdl> there is a lot of content dedicated to "stuff we should have" or "stuff we have"
<cbx33> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallations - needs to be made more of
<cbx33> and updated
<cbx33> RichEd, sais he had some case studies
<willvdl> "stuff we have" should go into more formal release notes or ESA type docs
<cbx33> etc
<cbx33> we need a much bigger page for this stuff
<cbx33> stuff we should hve should be expanded into blueprints/specs
<willvdl> yeah, basically make the wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu page a site-map for content
<cbx33> willvdl, are you editing that page
<willvdl> not any more
<cbx33> I was gonna go through and move a few around
<highvoltage> booya
<willvdl> booya
<cbx33> booya
<cbx33> indeed
* highvoltage catches up with convo
<highvoltage> :)
<cbx33> I think we need an archive section
<cbx33> gonna created schedule for archive too
<willvdl> highvoltage, it is time :)
<willvdl> would be lekker to have clean house before all and sundry visit our site again next year
<willvdl> cbx33, hmm archive. didn't think of that.
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> after ~BETT ;)
<willvdl> you mean "move" stuff to /Archive/xxx ?
<highvoltage> willvdl: time?
<willvdl> spring clean :)
<cbx33> I think EdubuntuTesting is old now
<highvoltage> ah yes
<cbx33> willvdl, yes we could do
<cbx33> ogra, is EdubuntuTesting old?
<cbx33> willvdl, EdubuntuDocumentation this is going to be the handbook
<cbx33> I think
<cbx33> but I don;t think we should just delete this
<cbx33> possibly just setup redirects to the hanmdbook
<cbx33> to preserve links from outside
<willvdl> cbx33, it is currently just a temp spot that I used for something
<cbx33> it was a page I was hoping to pull everything together
<cbx33> but the handbook is taking that role
<willvdl> Handbook will get planned and tracked under DocTeam with other documentation projects
<willvdl> and we can link back to edubuntu space
<cbx33> infact all the ltsp docs I wrote will get added to that
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll leave that one in other/unducded
<cbx33> willvdl, refresh made some chages ;)
<willvdl> cool, maybe just make what notes you can on the history of the page
<cbx33> oh still saving
<cbx33> ok made another update
<cbx33> check it out now
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> all but one re categorised
<willvdl> awesome. I'm drafting an email to the lists quickly and then I gotto run.
<willvdl> Will work full speed on this tomorrow...
<highvoltage> willvdl: nice job :)
<willvdl> thanks. it is not easy hey
<cbx33> willvdl, excellent - we're making great progress
<willvdl> requires a lot of thought and nagging :)
<cbx33> I'm trying to help ya out as best I can
<willvdl> tomorrow we tackle the Front Page.
<cbx33> ooooh
<willvdl> dum dum dum dum <drum roll>
<cbx33> the one I redid?
<willvdl> yip
<cbx33> excellent
<willvdl> capture all your nice info into the static page?
<cbx33> highvoltage, is Jelkner still around?
<highvoltage> cbx33: I haven't seen him online in ages
<cbx33> so from the merge/expansion sections willvdl - We can draft up names/spaces for where the content should go
<cbx33> highvoltage, shouldn't Rich be the educational contact now?
<willvdl> cbx33 yeah
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, he should.
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I'll change that now
<cbx33> I know we're gonna change tomorrow....
<willvdl> cbx33 and work as much into other teams/spec pages as possible
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> we'll get this cleared up
<highvoltage> cbx33: from what I've read it's more a case of jelkner having tons of other resposibilities, I don't think he has deserted edubuntu.
<willvdl> we should have generic contact points anyway?
<cbx33> right
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> and we need our landing page for BETT
<cbx33> and other trade/exhibition shows
<cbx33> with direct links to FrontPage, download, more info etc ;)
<cbx33> I kinda like the way that gnome/mozilla have
<willvdl> maybe linked of ubuntu conferences or presentations ... (there is such a thing somewhere)
<cbx33> sections for Users/Teachers/Developers all clearly linked
<willvdl> oh right. gotcha
<cbx33> people can easily categorise themselves with those
<willvdl> so it becomes more of a dispatch to existing info than anything else ?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> nothing new
<SimonAnibal> excuse me, what webpage are we discussing?
<cbx33> just a nice friendly landing page
<cbx33> SimonAnibal, many ;)
<cbx33> the wiki and edubuntu.org
<SimonAnibal> Ah, right on
<cbx33> we're pulling all our docs together
<SimonAnibal> cool
<cbx33> willvdl, when are you off?
<willvdl> in a fe secs. GF is looking at me funny
<willvdl> SimonAnibal, email to follow...
<SimonAnibal> willvdl: To the edubuntu lists?
<willvdl> edubuntu-devel and ubuntu-doc
<SimonAnibal> Right on, I know documentation is one of the least "fun" tasks that need to be done, and I thank you all for tackling it anyways
<SimonAnibal> I myself am starting to learn the value of keeping good documentation for myself and the people who end up using my work
<willvdl> SimonAnibal, we jsut need a little bit of a roadmap and some presence with the Doc Team and the contributions will come flooding :)
<willvdl> OK folks, email sent, I'm outa here. Maybe chat later tonight but prob tomorrow.
<willvdl> toodles
<SimonAnibal> later, man
* willvdl wonders if he really did just say "toodles"
<scott_> anybody here?
<scott_> no?
<cberlo> Hi folks.  I've got a bit of a strange happening on Edgy LTSP here:  initial resolution is 1024x768 at boot, but after first login (and logout), it switches to 800x600.  Any idea how to avoid this?
<cberlo> ogra:  FYI, adoption here is proceeding.  We've gone from a three client setup at one school to a) a cross-organizational 30 client setup in co-operation with another school board and a local college, b) expansion of the initial site from 3 to 15 clients plus two additional 15 client sites (for a total of about 45 clients) and c) an additional off-site terminal server to service 10 clients in a "standalone" configuration (not connected to either of t
<cberlo> s/tooled/tolled/g
<cberlo> Which reminds me, anyone got a quick and dirty user administration interface?  One of the projects simply interfaces with Active Directory, but for the other two projects, I need to keep user accounts up to date manually.
* cberlo listens to the sound of silence....
<cbx33> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> Morning
<cbx33> going good?
<sbalneav> heh, finished all my upgrades.
<sbalneav> Entire province went from Debian + icewm to Ubuntu + gnome
<cbx33> you upgraded from debian to ubutnu?
<sbalneav> yep, and from IceWM as the desktop to Gnome.
<cbx33> cool
<sbalneav> And from LTSP 4.x to LTSP 5
<cbx33> hahah
<sbalneav> so, I been busy
<cbx33> indeed you have
<sbalneav> Everybody seems to like Gnome
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
<juliux> hey pirast
<juliux> ogra, ping
<pirast> juliux, hi
<pirast> tomorrow, is the big day
<pirast> I will present Edubuntu to the lab admin / teacher
<pirast> :-P
<juliux> pirast, cool
<juliux> do you have everything?
<pirast> yeah..
<pirast> already tried
<juliux> we will wait to your report;)
<pirast> yeah :-)
<pirast> today he said that he would bring a very old laptop with him
<pirast> ( he didn't believe me that it doesn't matter how old the machine is at least it has 64 mb of ram)
<juliux> hm perhaps pxe is not working on the old notebook
<pirast> we will create a boot diskette
<juliux> ah ok
<juliux> pirast, ask your teacher if he is interested in the fasching 2007 idea;)
<pirast> juliux, lol ;-)
<juliux> pirast, pls
<pirast> i dont think that he'll be interested but I will tell him
<juliux> ok
<juliux> we need some "daus" for that;)
<pirast> okay ;-)
<pvf>  somebody help...i have dapper and want to install packages available in edgy, how do i do it ?
<crimsun_> you dist-upgrade to edgy first.
<crimsun_> in some instances, newer packages are available in the dapper-backports repository
<pvf> crimsun_, yes i want to know about backports
<crimsun_> !backports |pvf
<ubotu> pvf: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<pvf> yes...i already added the line for the edgy backports in my sources.list
<pvf> and did apt-get update
<crimsun_> you're on dapper, though, not edgy.
<crimsun_> you want to use dapper-backports, not edgy-backports.
<pvf> i see...i have that line too
<pvf> : )
<pvf> this ... "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-backports main restricted universe multiverse"
<crimsun_> I'd remove the edgy-backports line(s) and update
<crimsun_> please don't break your system
<pvf> done
<LaserJock> pvf: do you only want a couple of packages from Edgy or do you want to upgrade your whole Ubuntu installation to Edgy?
<pvf> i just want some packages from edgy
<LaserJock> I would try dapper-backports first then
<pvf> yes...but how do i do it....i have installed the packages from dapper but i need the version in edgy
<cbx33> pvf, from dapper, or dapper backports
<cbx33> ?
<LaserJock> dapper-backports is a special software repository where packages for edgy are rebuilt for use on dapper
<cbx33> what package are you talking about in particular?
<pvf> ok ... for example "libqt4-core"
<pvf> i have 4.1.2 in dapper but need version 4.2.2 from edgy
<cbx33> 4.2.0-1ubuntu6 0 here
<pvf> yes
<pvf> maybe
<cbx33> what is the difference in the versions? (outta curiosity)
<LaserJock> cbx33: that's for Edgy though
<cbx33> yes I know
<pvf> there are some new widgets
<cbx33> ahh i see
<LaserJock> Dapper's just got 4.1.2-1ubuntu1.1 with -security
<cbx33> pvf not ready for the upgrade to edgy yet?
#edubuntu 2006-12-19
<pvf> cbx33, sorry had to leave for a while  ...i'm ready
<pvf> cbx33, i do want to upgrade to edgy just now
<cbx33> do or don't?
<pvf> this is a production machine
<pvf> i misunderstood you
<pvf> i do not*  : )
* pvf is steroids
<cbx33> ahhh
* pvf is on steroids
<LaserJock> pvf: well, you could try downloading the Edgy .deb and install it manually, but I'd talk with #kubuntu or perhaps #kubuntu-devel first and see what they recommend
<pvf> so...how do i do it ?
<jgedeon> Anyone familiar with the LTSP set up with Edubuntu?  Can't get past the login screen with the client.  Server works fine.
<rak> will automatix or easy ubuntu work on edubuntu?
<LaserJock> the will, but they are not recommended
<LaserJock> as they can cause problems with your system and make it difficult to upgrade
<rak> well i'm making a computer for relatives from india who don't have internet access, so i just need to get things up and running so it will be stable and feature full for a long time
<LaserJock> I'd take the time to do it right then
<LaserJock> many of the things Automatix (in particular) does are outdated and not the official method
<rak> yeah, i was leaning towards easy ubuntu but it was having problems "downloading repository lists"
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi RichEd
<RichEd> hi Kamping_Kaiser :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> gday :)
<cbx33> back in a while all
<LaserJock> hi RichEd
<RichEd> LaserJock :)
* willvdl plugs merrily away at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWikiCleanup, whistling while he works
<rockprincess> ogra, are you there?
<willvdl> lunch
<rockprincess> on a random note: has anyone any experiences on bluetooth headsets?
<willvdl> I have bad experiences if that helps?
<cbx33> hey willvdl
<willvdl> hey
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi rockprincess :)
<willvdl> cbx33 I've reached https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuReleaseAnnouncement on the list for tagging :)
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> rikey that's old
<willvdl> cbx33, yeah 5.10  pages like that need to have proper namespace
<rockprincess> hey willvdl, define bad experiences ?! ;)
<rockprincess> hey Kamping_Kaiser ;) how are you?
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, very tired. i'm about to head to sleep (as soon as i rebuild my bed)
<willvdl> well, as in I couldn't get it to work, got frustrated and broke somthing
<rockprincess> uhhhh not good :(
<willvdl> Kamping_Kaiser: I will not ask
<ogra> willvdl, 5.10 is dead in april ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> willvdl, wont ask?
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: I'm very tired as well, but here it's ust 15:25 :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, :\
<Kamping_Kaiser> its 00:55 here
<rockprincess> willvdl: which bluetooth headset do you have?
<willvdl> I don't have one. was trying somebody elses.
<willvdl> ogra, yeah. looking at a way to use wiki in a nice release specific context
<ogra> right, but i dont think you need to care much for 5.10 anymore
<rockprincess> brb
<ogra> if you have cleaned it up it will be gone
<leobloom> hi
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<leobloom> this is a edubuntu support channel isn't it?
<Kamping_Kaiser> yes
<willvdl> ogra, just flagging stuff for cleanup at the mo. not deleting or moving anything
<willvdl>  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWikiCleanup
<leobloom> I'm new of Linux, I've just installed ubuntu this weekend and I love it so I was thinking about switching an old pc of mine to edubuntu, I haven't ben able to find the minimum requirements when installed on a single machine, do you know what they are?
<willvdl> I imagine the minimum requirements are the same as for ubuntu? workstation install that is?
<leobloom> well I dunno really, I told you I'm new, I've only found out that xubuntu is the one requiring the less but I'm more interested to edubuntu
<ogra> willvdl, teachers pet was the first student-control-panel spec, its only a brainstorm page, wipe it
<willvdl> ogra, cool
<willvdl> leobloom, http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted has minimum spec for thin-client
<willvdl> looking for other info...
<ogra> the spec for a workstation install is a bit bigger than ubuntus, but very similar (needs more diskspace)
<leobloom> but could I install a thin-client without having  a server?!
<willvdl> nope :)
<willvdl> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/releasenotes/606 release notes have some info
<leobloom> =o/
<willvdl> and the https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/installation-guide/i386/hardware-req.html installation guide has some info
<leobloom> uhm the installation process looks different from the one of ubuntu, that's because of the server/client support right? sorry for the stupid questions, I'm a complete beginner in this stuff!
<willvdl> not stupid at all
<willvdl> edubuntu tried not to use the heavily graphical install app
<leobloom> but what if I anted to install it on a single pc, should I also configure all those things? I mean, the IP's and stuff? it'd be on a single pc :D
<leobloom> maybe there could be an easier solution for me, how can I know whether the educationa softwares included in edubuntu can be used on xubuntu (which looks easier to be installed :D) without actually installing xubuntu on my ubuntu OS? (sorry for the weird question!)
<willvdl> leobloom, installing single PC, you need to configure _something_ for the newtork but it really wouldn't mattter what IP's etc you put in
<willvdl> as to running KDE (Kubuntu), XFCE (Xubuntu) or Gnome (Ubuntu) apps on the same machine, it is possible but the base install size will grow obviously as you need to add the libraries for each system
<willvdl> e.g. edubuntu is Gnome based but we run kde-edu applications on it
<leobloom> uhm I've read that xfce is the smallest of those free while kde is the heaviest
<rockprincess> leobloom: edubuntu works fine on my 5 years old laptop :)
<leobloom> eh, the problem is I want to use it on an even older pc! it's an old pentium II at 400 mhz :D
<rockprincess> leobloom: have you tried the live-cd yet?
<leobloom> nope, because this pc is notere at my place, I should download the iso and send it to my syster (who is even worse than me with pc stuff9 and tell her what to do via skype
<rockprincess> i see
<leobloom> i know it sounds mad but it'd be ever harder for her to have to download and install it by herself, she doesn't even speak English well enough to understand what she's doing :D
<rockprincess> try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/releasenotes/606?highlight=%28minimum%29
<leobloom> uhm it asks for minimum 256 ram, if I remember well that pc has only 128
<juliux> leobloom, 256mb ram for the server not for the clients
<leobloom> so ubuntu can have server/client nets to? i didn't know this
<juliux> do you want to install ubuntu or edubuntu?
<ogra> leobloom, 128M is fine for installing it (edubuntu uses a text based installer and needs less during install), but no way enough to have a useable system
<ogra> it will run but be unusable slow
<leobloom> so I can't install edubuntu and not even ubuntu? too bad, I really like  this distribution!
<leobloom> could it be possible then to install xubuntu (or even a smaller debianbased distro) and then install those edusoftwares?
<sbalneav> leobloom: Yes, something like Xubuntu would help.
<leobloom> and after installing xubuntu I could also install those softwares? are they available outside the edubuntu package?
<rockprincess> leobloom: yes
<rockprincess> leobloom: i even use them on my kubuntu ;)
<leobloom> eh, I think that kubuntu would hardly work even on my own pc lol :D
<rockprincess> what's your setup?
<leobloom> still this distro of linux is great! in not even two days I've been able to find all the softwares I needed and even more :D
<rockprincess> excellent ;) glad that you like it!
<leobloom> I'm using an old pentium II at 733 mhz, I've had a crash last weekend and lost everything so i formatted and lost the winXP, had no cd to reinstall the original one so instaled a trial xp on  one hd and ubuntu in partition on another hd
<leobloom> I have already "spread the word" of switching to linux to many of my friends lol :D
<leobloom> sorry it's pentium III obviously
<Sonofaq> hiya cbx33
<leobloom> brb
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/%e9%a6%96%e9%a0%81
<willvdl> does that link work?
<cbx33> hey Sonofaq
<cbx33> dude you're here that's excellent
<cbx33> we need to set you up a gpg key
<Sonofaq> cool
<cbx33> I'm going to do sculleys tomorrow at school
<Sonofaq> hehe is he in then
<cbx33> sux that you're still on windows ;)
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> ok.....
<Sonofaq> mmm what time is school open to tomorow
<cbx33> lemme see if I can find a tut
<Sonofaq> cheers
<cbx33> 8-12, but i don;t think pupils are allowed in
<Sonofaq> hehe
<Sonofaq> im a guessed
<cbx33> otherwise i could have done with the help
<Sonofaq> whats going on tomoz
<cbx33> gimme 2 mins
<Sonofaq> ok
<cbx33> http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
<leobloom> back
<Sonofaq> cheers find out if i can come in tomoz if i can i might
<cbx33> i'll do that
<leobloom> can I ask another question?
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> yes that works willvdl
<cbx33> sorry dude
<willvdl> weird
<cbx33> what the hell is that page
<cbx33> unicode name?
<leobloom> I know it's stupid but how exactly can I enter the apt? I've read that it's the best way to instal/unistall  stuff but it's more difficult to used due to the fact that it only runs  commands (and that's not really friendly for me :D )
<cbx33> leobloom, ok it's pretty easy
<cbx33> you can find many tutrials on the net but basicall
<cbx33> you'd use it like so
<cbx33> sudo apt-get update    :::   This updates the list of pacakges
<cbx33> sudo apt-get install <package-name>   :::   This installs a pacakge
<cbx33> sudo apt-get upgrade   :::   Upgrades any pacakges which have new versions
<leobloom> oh, so it simply works  from the terminal?
<leobloom> ok thanks a lot!
<cbx33> yeh it's easy
<leobloom> ah how come there are always so many updates everyday? yesterday and today I've downloaded more than 60 mb of udpdates :D
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> shouldn't be
<cbx33> but after you have installed fresh from a cd there wuill be a lot
<willvdl> unicode name so I can't use a wiki-link to it, have to use http: link...
<cbx33> grrrr that sux willvdl
<cbx33> howzx it all going
<cbx33> with the cleanup
<willvdl> nearly all tagged :)
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> you rock bro !
<willvdl> next step is deciding what to do with them :P
<leobloom> ah ok, so it simply happens because ths OS has just been installed? ok... another thing, I've read t'd be better (for security purposes) not to connect the web with the admin account but I've created two others and none of them works, they simply won't connect
<willvdl> SFD is easy enough, the SFM is a little harder
<cbx33> leobloom, explain
<cbx33> on ubuntu by default you do not use a root account per se
<cbx33> you use a normal account which can have root privialges when it requires it
<leobloom> ok, I try to explain it but remember I'm a newby :D
<cbx33> like when you do an update, a message box pops up asking for your password
<cbx33> leobloom, np...
<cbx33> that's why we're here
<cbx33> do you remember that box?
<cbx33> if you are logged in as you and not as root (which requires a manual workaroudn anyway) your computer can't do anything that rtequires administrative proviliages unless it first asks you for permission
<cbx33> makes sens?
<cbx33> so Sonofaq ready to setup your gpg key?
<leobloom> I told you I have two OS on my pc now, ubuntu 6.10 on one and trial winxp on the other, I have installed the adsl modem drivers on winxp and the connection works fine there for all the accounts, I set the connection on ubuntu  with the  command "sudo pppoe conf" and followed the things there and it worked
<Sonofaq> im just going through th tutorial
<cbx33> nice one Sonofaq
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> leobloom, you should be fine with that wetup
<Sonofaq> lol the downlaods page got a bit confusinf cbx33
<cbx33> setup
<leobloom> so now everytime I want to connect to the web i simply write sudo pon dsl-provider in my terminal and it works but only on the first account I've created
<cbx33> Sonofaq, dunno, only used it a few years ago
<cbx33> leobloom, yes
<cbx33> that's because no other account has permission to run sudo
<cbx33> sudo means...do anything after this as if it were the administrator
<cbx33> you have permission to do that
<leobloom> oh, didn't know this =o/
<cbx33> other accounts don;t
<cbx33> by deafult
<cbx33> you can add it so they can
<leobloom> so I can't connect on the other accounts?
<cbx33> well you can
<leobloom> ehm how?=o)
<cbx33> but you must either give them admin access, or do some funky stuff with permissions to allow them to dial up
<cbx33> if you get the money, it would be better to get a router ;)
<cbx33> or if you have another spare machine set it up as a fireway/gateway
<cbx33> s/fireway/firewall
<leobloom> oh, well, I'll buy a new pc  after xmas anyway, my brother is too "scared" of using linux  :D so he wants a normal windows
<cbx33> *bah*
<cbx33> unless he's an avid gamer....linux is fine
<rockprincess> woot, only 4 days and 7 hours til i have the codebreakers dvd version...yipeeeee :D
<leobloom> nope he's not but he's scared of all his kinda new stuff, the only game he plays is caled ogame , dont know if you've ever heard of it
<cbx33> rockprincess, heheheh
<cbx33> no
<leobloom> good rock, if I knew what they are :D
<cbx33> get him using linux ;)
<rockprincess> cbx33: it's rather quick, i wasn't being sarcastic :)
<leobloom> eh, I will as soon as I can use it without any problem myself :D
<cbx33> leobloom, ok
<rockprincess> cbx33: btw, i saw your launchpad account today and found out your real name ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> and....?
<rockprincess> cbx33: *stalker* ;)
<rockprincess> hahaha
<cbx33> is that a bad thing??
* cbx33 hides
<rockprincess> cbx33: not at all ;)
<leobloom> so there is no simple way to connect without being admin? But I'm sure i read that it's the only way not to get the few viruses  for linux that are around, I have no firewall or such instaled
<cbx33> Sonofaq, you installing thunderbird too?
<cbx33> well a firewall is pretty easy to isntall
<rockprincess> cbx33: so you like kiting? ;))
<cbx33> search for firestarter
<cbx33> rockprincess, indeed I do
<cbx33> I have two Fury .85 's now ;)
<Sonofaq> i'v install it and th enig open pgp extention just setting up preferences cb33
<cbx33> nice nice
<cbx33> next step
<cbx33> send em a mail encrypted with my gpg key
<cbx33> you should find it on the generic keyservers ;)
<leobloom> is there a ubuntu channel too? I have tons of other questions about it :D
<bddebian> Heya
<rockprincess> leobloom: #ubuntu
<rockprincess> there  might even be #ubuntu-it
<rockprincess> for italian help...i assume you're italian?!
<leobloom> oh perfect!thatbks alot then! I'll try to ask all my quesitons in the specific chan =o)
<leobloom> yep I'm Italian, how do you know?=o)
<rockprincess> good luck ;)
<rockprincess> i did a whois request on you ;)
<leobloom> ah ok :D
<leobloom> well I suppose I can't be connected to two different chans at the same time right? I need to disconnect from this to connect to ubuntu
<rockprincess> no you can! try it ;)
<leobloom> ohnice :D
<leobloom> =o) sorry
<cbx33> heheh
<leobloom> I've never used irc so I'm not really good with this  either lol :D
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> irc rocks
<leobloom> how come there are so few chans? I've searched throught e web and there should be thousands of them
<cbx33> so few
<cbx33> there are loads
<leobloom> but the software I'm using only shows some dozens of servers
<cbx33> how goes it Sonofaq ?
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> i don;t know then ;)
<cbx33> i guess i only know the ones I use a lot
<leobloom> it's called Xchat irc, I've tried to add a server but havent found the button to do it
<cbx33> and that's 5 ubuntu channels
<Sonofaq> well im just waiting for gnupg to downlaod cbx33 then i'll be ther
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> taking it's time is it?
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> did I tell you I started chopping up YouthLUG Radio
<cbx33> yes I did
<cbx33> didn't I?
<juliux> ogra, ping
<willvdl> where is mhz these days?
<cbx33> willvdl, no idea
<cbx33> he pops in every now and then
<willvdl> hmmm. he authored half the wiki :)
<cbx33> I know he's done a lot
<cbx33> he worked with me on a few things
<cbx33> great guy
<juliux> ogra, forget the ping, i think you have no time before beta release
<willvdl> how come our wiki homepage is EdubuntuWiki and not Edubuntu?
* willvdl is pretty much done tagging https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWikiCleanup
<cbx33> juliux, it should be Edubuntu
<juliux> cbx33, sorry?
<cbx33> the homepage...as far as I knew should be w.u.c/Edubuntu
<juliux> cbx33, about what are you talking??
<juliux> cbx33, could it be that you mean willvdl ?
<willvdl> :)
<willvdl> will log a bug
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> juliux, forgive me
<cbx33> willvdl, I was meaning you
<juliux> cbx33, its ok;)
<cbx33> Sonofaq, howz it going?
<Sonofaq> almost finished can you link thunderbird to hotmail cbx33
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> that's why I was going to setup that other account
<cbx33> willvdl, DUDE!!!!!!!!
<cbx33> that page is huge
<Sonofaq> if you set of that other acount i will ccreate a key for it cbx33
<willvdl> eek, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook
<Sonofaq> i have everingthing else working cbx33
<cbx33> oh that's all old stuff ;)
* willvdl is confused
<willvdl> it's on h.u.c
<cbx33> well....pygi and HedgeMage wrote some of that.....although so did others like myself
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> but the handbook is taking over
<cbx33> cookbook was never 100% compelte
<willvdl> is it a copy of https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook
<cbx33> Sonofaq, ok hang on a sec
<Sonofaq> cool cbx33
<willvdl> ah, redirect
<cbx33> Sonofaq, what do you want your email address to be?
<cbx33> <what>@youthlug.org
<Sonofaq> mmmm blondefriend@youthlug.org
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> know how to add a mai laccount in thunderbird?
<Sonofaq> yeah
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'm gonna pm you some details
<Sonofaq> cool
<willvdl> cbx33, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/ReportTemplate ?
<cbx33> destroy it
<willvdl> kill kill kill
<willvdl> list is done. whew
<willvdl> tomorrow I'll start work on the front page and propose a structure/organisation for the wiki: namespaces etc.
<cbx33> nice one willvdl
<cbx33> you're working hard
<cbx33> lemme know if there is anything I can do
<willvdl> review and edit :)
<willvdl> you've been here longer than me
<cbx33> ok dude
<willvdl> going to start on obvious deletions
<willvdl> based on feedback from you, ogra and others
<willvdl> cbx33: https://bugs.launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+bug/76463
<cbx33> cool
<willvdl> bug 76463
<willvdl> (where is Ubugtu?)
<willvdl> edubuntugirl, what is bug 76463?
<edubuntugirl> willvdl: huh?
<willvdl> sigh
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> aww bless her
<ogra> just use the right channels for bugs :P
* ogra is afk while gcompris builds
<cbx33> hey ogra
<cbx33> GRRRRRRRR
<cbx33> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
<cbx33> this just isn't fair dude
<cbx33> you're like ..... Mr Bond
<highvoltage> cbx33: does that make you Q? :)
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> makes me sad :(
<cbx33> :'(
<cbx33> how are you highvoltage
<highvoltage> kind of been on holiday
<cbx33> willvdl, where is the EdubuntuWiki page pointed from
<highvoltage> so feeling a bit more relaxed than usual
<highvoltage> cbx33: how are you?
<cbx33> yeh good
<cbx33> working on YouthLUG
<willvdl> cbx33, I don't think it is. "Edubuntu" redirects to it
<cbx33> ahhh
<highvoltage> cbx33: wow, haven't heard about youthlug in a while, you should blog about that sometime!
<cbx33> i blogged abotu it a few days ago
<cbx33> well
<cbx33> the python side of it anyway ;)
<cbx33> we have a website now
<cbx33> which I'm working on
<cbx33> just got one of our memebrs a gpg key
<willvdl> hey highvoltage, do you know what https://wiki.edubuntu.org/%e9%a6%96%e9%a0%81 was used for?
* highvoltage looks
<highvoltage> willvdl: I'm afraid I have no idea
<highvoltage> ah
<willvdl> there's three of them :)
<cbx33> THREE?
<highvoltage> willvdl: I think someone wanted to start a translation to some asian language?
<willvdl> all basically the frontpage with unicode titles
<highvoltage> brb
<willvdl> hmmm. Doc Team wants wiki translations to be done through LoCo's (and their sites). No current plans for wiki translations
<cbx33> that woudl be a huge task
<willvdl> well point is that moinmoin wiki at the mo is not setup to handle translations
<cbx33> can it be?
<cbx33> that would/should be a major step forward
<cbx33> it would be a great step forward.....though...would they complain about rosetta noe being useD?
<willvdl> I think it's a problem with wiki templates. not familiar with the history
<cbx33> ahhh
<willvdl> ciao all. see tomorrow
<highvoltage> bye willvdl
<highvoltage> take care
<willvdl> ciao
<willvdl> nearly holiday :)
<willvdl> East Coast meander on Saturday
<highvoltage> kewl
<capt_kirk> Evening all.
<highvoltage> hi capt_kirk
* highvoltage wonders who be scotty, sbalneav or sc0tt 
<capt_kirk> Anyone have an opinion on whether to run LDAP/Samba on the same box as my LTSP server, or on a separate box?  I'm wondering if anyone knows about the relative CPU usage vs network traffic tradeoffs.  Thanks.
* sbalneav is Scott Balneaves
<highvoltage> if it's going to be a busy samba server, it's best to keep it on another box, since preserving disk bandwidth on your ltsp server is quite important
<capt_kirk> thanks.  it will be fairly lightly loaded.  Right now 8 thin-clients, building to about 30 or 40 over the next year (depending on funding).  Total of about 120 users on those clients.
<capt_kirk> external windows access to the samba will only be about 10 windows boxes.
<capt_kirk> highvoltage: Am I right in thinking to put the Samba/LDAP on the older of our two servers?  Seems like the LTSP server has the higher CPU/RAM requirements.  Thanks.
<sbalneav> capt_kirk: Yes, the LTSP server will be more heavily loaded than a samba server
<capt_kirk> sbalneav: Thanks!
<stgraber> hi
<cbx33> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello cbx33
<jomolina> http://tiorubo.blogspot.com/2006/12/microsoft-y-el-vaporware.html
<capt_kirk> sbalneav or highvoltage: If I offload the /home directories to the Samba server on another box (and access them using LDAP authentication), will that help with LTSP performance by reducing the demand on its hard drive, or hurt it by putting more demands on the external NIC?
<Sonofaq> cbx33 you there
<LaserJock> ogra: you around today?
<highvoltage> capt_kirk: if you have a gigabit network card between the two servers, I think it would be faster indeed
<capt_kirk> highvoltage:  Thanks.  That's one of the funding hitches now, getting gigabit into our infrastructure.  (Poor Tanzanian college that I'm helping for a year.)  But this argument will hopefully get some help in beefing up the infrastructure more cheaply than buying a huge single server.
<kambei> Anyone awake?
#edubuntu 2006-12-20
<kambei> Anyone awake yet?
<Burgwork> sort of
<kambei> Well, I have some questions, and I haven't been able to speak with anyone here.
<kambei> It's in regards to NIS.
<Burgwork> ah
<Burgwork> can help you with ldap, but not nis
<kambei> Burgwork: They are not technical questions, really.
<kambei> I am interested in setting up a server to host the login information and perhaps the home directorie.
<kambei> s
<kambei> What is the recommended way to facilitate this?
<kambei> I have ten or so systems, and I want any user to be able to sit down at any system and login.
<kambei> Is that clear?
<kambei> I understand that Edubuntu incorporates these features, but the systems are not using Edubuntu, per se.
<Wilmanric> hello
<Burgundavia> hey Wilmanric
<Wilmanric> I was hoping someone could help me with a question...
<Wilmanric> I would like to format a USB thumb drive using Edubuntu.  How do I do that?
<Wilmanric> Anyone?  I'd really appreciate the help.  :)
<Burgundavia> Wilmanric: you need to wipe all the data off of it?
<freet15> Wilmanric, you can try sformat ?
<kambei> Burgwork: Any chance you're here?
<willvdl> ogra ping
<ogra> willvdl, pong
<willvdl> hi there, could you look very quickly at something for me, few secs
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstalledApplications is a merge of "older" docs
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ApplicationSelection https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDesktop https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSoftwareList https://wiki.edubuntu.org/K12-LTSP_Educational_Software
<willvdl> can the older docs be deleted?
<ogra> indeed
<willvdl> sweet, thanks
<ogra> we should probably rename EdubuntuInstalledApplications to EdubuntuApplicationsuggestions or something, to make the purpose clearer ... or wipe that as well
<ogra> its been used for finding the right initial appselection and was never used again later
<willvdl> yeah. been thinking around this concept somewhat
<willvdl> ideal solution would be a page that lists this kind of info against each release
<ogra> we'll need something like that page for the second CD and the appselection for it ...
<willvdl> maybe do something clever with Launchpad API? if possible
<ogra> well, there were no big changes in the selection
<ogra> apart from dropping one or the other app out of space issues ...
<willvdl> or a page that divides the applications up into categories
<ogra> bu7t that dropping is always been specific to only one arch ....
<willvdl> hmmm. OK, I'll find a logical home for the page and then we can work on it at a later date
<willvdl> it is a nice idea for a wiki page
<cbx33> ping ogra
<willvdl> woop
<cbx33> hey willvdl
<willvdl> darn lovely day outside
<willvdl> and here I edit wiki pages, counting down to the meeting :)
<cbx33> hehe
<willvdl> gotto run. bb 2hours
<bddebian> Heya
<cbx33> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi cbx33
<sbalneav> Morning all
<cbx33> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello cbx33
<bddebian> Heya sbalneav
<nixternal> meeting in 1hr 15min correct?
<highvoltage> nixternal: correct
<nixternal> cool
<cbx33> das ist richtig
<nixternal> im guessing that means "that's correct"
<nixternal> ;p
<highvoltage> inderdaad
<highvoltage> (indeed)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> my fav word
<cbx33> inderdaad
<highvoltage> I've noticed :)
<LaserJock> haha
<nixternal> lovely...i know only english and have a hard enough time speaking it, and now you want to toss german curve balls at me :)
<cbx33> sorry nixternal
<nixternal> hahaha
<highvoltage> I think I learned it from mrogra
* cbx33 only knows tiny bits
<cbx33> like
<cbx33> was machst du nach der schule
<cbx33> or
<highvoltage> cbx33: I meant, saying 'indeed' a lot :)
<nixternal> i know a lot of languages, but i can only swear in most
<cbx33> highvoltage, I know
<highvoltage> ok :)
<highvoltage> btw, I compiled my first c program under linux tonight
<cbx33> cool
<highvoltage> I'm stunned at how easy it is under linux. I last did it on MS-DOS about 6 years ago :)
<cbx33> hehe
* cbx33 has some cool ideas for the meeting
<cbx33> ;)
<highvoltage> cbx33: oooh!
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> for ldm....i'll leave it at that
<highvoltage> imho, ldm is currently one of the biggest weak points in edubuntu.
<cbx33> well...lisa me and sbalneav have had a few ideas to spruce it up a little
<highvoltage> ah, artwork wise?
<cbx33> hopefully to be included in feisty
<cbx33> not just art work
<cbx33> will explain all at the meeting
<cbx33> gtg
<cbx33> bbl
<LaserJock> hmm, so are we going to have a meeting?
<willvdl> seems busy in there
<rodarvus> I think they are wrapping up the #ubuntu-ops meeting
<rodarvus> we should have the "meeting room" available for us in a few minutes :)
<RichEd> hi guys ...
<LaserJock> hi RichEd
<LaserJock> is ogra going to be here today?
<rodarvus> hey RichEd
<stgraber> hello everyone
<RichEd> not sure ... I saw him around earlier
<highvoltage> hey stgraber
<RichEd> rodarvus, stgraber : hi
<highvoltage> and hi RichEd, rodarvus and LaserJock :)
<highvoltage> and willvdl :)
<willvdl> hey
<rodarvus> hey hey
<RichEd> highvoltage LaserJock ... hi as well
* ogra waves
* highvoltage waves to ogra across the continent
<RichEd> looks like the ops meeting is over ... shall we move over ?
<RichEd> ======= edubuntu meeting ==== #ubuntu-meeting ==== NOW
<jbinder> gnomefreak: i remember you!
<jbinder> gnomefreak: you helped me fix my edgy when i upgraded
<pygi> hello everyone
<pygi> ping HedgeMage
<pygi> HedgeMage <-- pm or jabber pls :)
<nixternal> heh, he didn't stay long
#edubuntu 2006-12-21
<KatteKrab> howdy peoples
<KatteKrab> RichEd: ping?
<bddebian> Heya
<freet15> Hi
<BHSPitLappy> hi, all
<cbx33> mornin all
<cbx33> hey willvdl
<cbx33> anything intersting in the meting after I left?
<BHSPitLappy> yo
<cbx33> hey peeps
<highvoltage> hey peep
<cbx33> hi highvoltage
<cbx33> howz it going
<highvoltage> going well thanks
<highvoltage> I have a lot to do but I'm having trouble getting out of bed :)
<highvoltage> need to get my passport sorted out, hair cut, among other semi-pointless things. but I think I'll do that tomorrow.
<highvoltage> been bugsquashing this morning, much more fun :)
<cbx33> heheeh
<kgoetz> can i ask ubuntu ltsp questions here? i'm not getting much luck with #ltsp
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> fire away
<kgoetz>  my LTSP client (dapper based) is getting to "* Loading hardware drivers..." then just says "nfs:
<kgoetz> server 192.168.0.2 not responding, still trying" after a few minutes (and keeps repeating the nfs error).
<kgoetz> any thoughts? :(
<cbx33> sounds as if it's telling the truth ;)
<cbx33> have you confirm the nfs is exported ok?
<kgoetz> how can i confirm it? it used to work ok  :\
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> well do you know how to mount an nfs share manually
<kgoetz> no :\
<cbx33> ok....do you have another machine on the network?
<cbx33> hang on two secs
<kgoetz> i can grab another laptop to plug in. brb.
<cbx33> hanve you tried restarting the nfs server?
<kgoetz> yes, both the service and the system its on
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> i can't remember the syntax exactly and I don;t have an nfs share anywhere handy to test
<cbx33> it's something like
<cbx33> mount -t nfs 182.23.45.23:/path/to/nfs /mnt/directory
<cbx33> try that
<kgoetz> sudo mount -t nfs 192.168.0.2:/opt/ltsp /mnt works (ls /mnt gives i386). thats on the local host untill i get the lappy booted
<cbx33> ok good
<cbx33> so the nfs works
<cbx33> what about grepping the logs to see what happens?
<kgoetz> i dont see anything special in syslog, is ther another place?
<kgoetz> hm. new error
<kgoetz> nfs: rpc call returned error 101 <- on laptop pxe booting
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> are you sure the dns is working on? - I've had reverse DNS errors before
<kgoetz> its an ltsp-server-standalone setup. i hope that stuff is dealt with
<kgoetz> it was in my other setups :/
<cbx33> ok
<kgoetz> only difference (apart from one being a laptop,a nd one a desktop) is that the desktop is getting a static dhcp address
<cbx33> hmmm
<kgoetz> actually, i'm wrong
<cbx33> is the address being assigned by another dhcp server?
<kgoetz> they are both in dhcp configs
<kgoetz> no, its on a crossover cable
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> is it communicating ok over that cable?
<kgoetz> well, its pxe booting, and going fine to the nfs bmounting bit
<kgoetz> * seems to be communicating fine
<cbx33> hmm....
<cbx33> so tftp is working
<cbx33> you sure that the nfs path is being servered right from the dhcp server
<kgoetz> its serving /opt/ltsp/i386, iirc correct?
<cbx33> yeh i think so
<kgoetz> would the host bein  outside the dhcp range cuase issues?
<cbx33> I'm not too hot on the set
<cbx33> look in
<cbx33> see what path / host range is accepted
* kgoetz hopes not :S
<cbx33>  /etc/exports on the server
<kgoetz>  /opt/ltsp *(ro,no_root_squash,async)
<cbx33> ahh....
<cbx33> does it need to be /opt/ltsp/i386 now?
<cbx33> I'm not sure tbh
<kgoetz> that matches with what i have on a working production server, so i think its right :|
<cbx33> hmmm
<kgoetz> brb. heard thunder, making sure dogs are ok
<cbx33> have you tried googleing for the exact error message?
<kgoetz> cbx33: got some tabs open atm. hadnt looked at them yet
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> sorry about that
<kgoetz> wb
* kgoetz wonders if itrs a bug, and does a dist-upgrade
<kgoetz> i'm going to take > 1 hour to dist-upgrade :/ i might not be albe to work on this again until tomorrow :(. thanks for the help cbx33
<cbx33> np
<cbx33> sorry i couldn't do more
<kgoetz> thanks for yoru effort :)
<cbx33> let me know what happens
<kgoetz> will do :)
<willvdl> highvoltage, passport? where you of to?
<cbx33> hey all
<utk> Hey, can you help me out ?
<bddebian> Heya
<highvoltage> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: pipedream is Jan Groenewald
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: sure thing
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: wizzy is Andy Rabagliati
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: righto
<sbalneav> ogra: Hey, vagrant tells me you've come up with a python alternative to lp_server?
<cbx33> ahhh python
<pipedream> heh
<cbx33> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> ICMP ECHO REPLY
<cbx33> howz it going?
<cbx33> have you ever done any work on the ldm glade file?
<sbalneav> No!  Learning glade + python is VERY high on my list of things to do!  I REALLY need to learn how to do gui devel, and glad + python seems the perfect way to get into it.  Got any good tutorials?
<cbx33> sbalneav, hold there 2 seconds
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=183
<sbalneav> Cool!  Thankx
<cbx33> hope it helps
<cbx33> had some great feeback from it
<sbalneav> s/x$/s/
<cbx33> s/x/s/ would have been sufficient no?
<cbx33> :p
<sbalneav> Sure, but precision always counts :)
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> sbalneav, https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+branch/ltsp/feisty-ltsp-jetpipe
<cbx33> ogra, I'm here now if you're available for meeting?
<cbx33> or 7 if not
<sbalneav> Had I said: "Cool!  xylophones are sexy, thankx", yours would have not worked :)
<cbx33> sbalneav, true
<ogra> sbalneav, for now it does only usb and parallel printers, is missing all kinds of error catching etc, the code does only show the principle but needs a lot fleshing out ...
<cbx33> however "Thankx that's great I'll look later thankx again would have failed too :p
<ogra> cbx33, 7 is better, i'm fighting with a weird screensaver bug atm
<cbx33> heheh np
<sbalneav> ogra: I need serial printers, so guess who's going to help you with this? :)
<cbx33> ogra, did you get my message about BETT?
<sbalneav> fetch phase 1/4 :)
<ogra> sbalneav, just look at the diff from the last revision ... that should be everything ...
<ogra> cbx33, no ?
<sbalneav> ogra: I think this is a great idea.  solves the whole licensing issue nicely.
<cbx33> I've convinced my boss to let us take some kids up there
<ogra> sbalneav, yep
<sbalneav> ogra: heh, nice and simple.  OK, all we need to do is pull in python.serial, and parse command line options to set up the serial port properly.
<ogra> yeah
<cbx33> it's gonna be a great BETT show for edubuntu
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> i didnt know about python.serial :D ... i thought about a pipe to setserial, but found that to ugly :)
<sbalneav> python.serial looks easy.  It opens a file like object just like the open does, so all we'll have is just some code to select wether or not it's a "simple" device like /dev/lp... or /dev/usb/lp..., or a /dev/ttyS....  Then just do the proper open.  We'll probably only add about 15 lines of code to do that.
<sbalneav> I'll look at that today.
<sbalneav> One comment: why don't we pull jetpipe out of the ltsp tree, and just make it a standalone package.  It would be useful generally, and not just in the context of ltsp. :)
<sbalneav> heh, copyright notice is longer than the code.
<ogra> sure, lets make it standalone ... for now i just wanted a quick fix for feisty users so they can print ... the merge with debian wiped lp_server from our code as well and i didnt want to just re-add it
<sbalneav> yeah, understood.
* ogra sighs deeply ... this bug is giving me bad headdaches
<sbalneav> Which one?
<ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver/+bug/76623
<sbalneav> Oh, that's easy.
<ogra> i cant reproduce it, but half the world seems to have it
<sbalneav> gconftool-2 --direct \
<sbalneav>             --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory \
<sbalneav>             --type string \
<sbalneav>             --set /apps/gnome-screensaver/mode blank-only
<sbalneav> That solves all problems with screensavers, I find :)
<ogra> oh, crap, wrong bug No.
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver/+bug/76632
<ogra> 76623 has a patch and all, i just need to merge it ...
<cbx33> not a problem here
<cbx33> can you get soemone to do a trace on it?
<ogra> there is a trace attached ...
<cbx33> oh sorry
* cbx33 has to go
<cbx33> bbiab
<ogra> (oh, its attached to one of the duplicates, sorry)
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> i thought i didn't see one there
<cbx33> any more thoughts on the gnome canvas thing?
<bddebian> cbx33: Have an error message?
<cbx33> basicalyl a required catalog gnomecanvas could not be found
<cbx33> blah
<bddebian> cbx33: Well that's not very helpful :)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> i got to dash
<cbx33> will look closer later
<bddebian> Laterz
<highvoltage> !seen pips1
<ubotu> I last saw pips1 (n=AZ2304@actz87.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) 3d 20h 53m 19s ago, quiting: "Azureus 2.3.0.4"
<cbx33> ogra, meeting?
<ogra> gimme a minute
<cbx33> ok np
<ogra> but yes
<cbx33> crimsun_, ever had it where a small mic sounds like it's got a ring mod on it?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<crimsun_> cbx33: check your capture settings
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> thanks crimsun_
<ogra> cbx33, oook
<cbx33> ogra,  oggggg
<ogra> i assume you read the SCP spec
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> meeting here or in pm?
<ogra> here is fine
<ogra> so, the first and most important part is the split into front and backend
<cbx33> agreed
<ogra> i'm not concerned if any of the other features need to wait until feisty+1, but we need the infrastructure for multiple server support now
<ogra> so that should be the focus
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> right ok
<cbx33> well I can split that up fairly easily
<cbx33> not a huge task really
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> do you have any idea about how you want classes/functions arrangeD?
<cbx33> or shall I do what I think there?
<ogra> do what you think, but i guess you need to end up with frond and backe3nd classes
<ogra> *front
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> are we splitting into two pacakges?
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> good question
<cbx33> which would eventually become 3
<cbx33> k,g,base
<ogra> will it make sense to have a commandline gui, soemthing with curses ?
<cbx33> hmmm
<ogra> hmm, KDE, right
<cbx33> I'm not sure
<ogra> yeah, then lets have a split package
<cbx33> i think it's the most sensible way to go
<cbx33> I think command line would be great
<ogra> at least SCP-backend SCP-gnome
<ogra> the kde part is up to others
<cbx33> I'm not saying I'm gonna write the kde frontend
<cbx33> though I think I could
<ogra> python-qt shouldnt be to hard, but thats really something the KDE community can do
<cbx33> command line would be good....as I would have...if it was fully implemented here....need to have ssh access to it
<cbx33> that would be a good idea
<ogra> well, commandline is defined in the spec
<ogra> but not with curses ui ...
<cbx33> yeh
<ogra> but i think it wouldnt make sense anyway
<cbx33> is curses tieable with python?
<ogra> raw commandline is fine ... for sending messages etcv
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ok so the split + package split is main concern
<cbx33> now we need to look at Multiple server control
<ogra> leright
<ogra> -le
* ogra stares at his keyboard
<cbx33> so
<cbx33> when you say multiple servers
<cbx33> from the spec.....i see it meaning the following
<cbx33> one front end can talk to several servers
<cbx33> but only one at a time
<cbx33> am I right here?
<ogra> right
<ogra> in later releases we can spoil that on the UI side and make it talk to multiple servers transparently
<cbx33> do you think at some stage it would be useful to do true multiple servers?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> I really think SCP could be a big selling point for Edubuntu
<ogra> for now one server<->one client is fine
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> lets grow slowly, but with good quality ;)
<cbx33> what else on the list do you see being priority for feisty
<cbx33> if I had the time I'd work on it all day everyday
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> get it to be a fantastic app
<cbx33> sadly I have to goto work
<ogra> well, blank/lock seems like a low hanging fruit
<cbx33> will need tie in to x11vnc?
<ogra> i.e. like implementable in less than 30min
<ogra> yeah, we'll need the vnc integration
<cbx33> how do you see that being implemented
<cbx33> right ok
<ogra> well it was described in the former spec
<cbx33> yes it was
<cbx33> now I don;t think I'm qualified to touch x11vnc
<ogra> ah, and copied over :)
<cbx33> but I would like to know what's goign on there
<ogra> thats fine, i'll care for that part
<cbx33> ok...
<cbx33> if you could lemme see a diff when you're done
<cbx33> that'd be great
<cbx33> I'm keen to learn
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> i'll keep the work in bzr, you can diff every small change ;)
<cbx33> ok
<Burgwork> breaking it out as a backend means somebody could right a frontend, or an ebox plugin, etc.
<cbx33> yes
<Burgwork> a web frontend, rather
<ogra> Burgwork, yep
<Burgwork> ogra: have you looked at ebox?
<ogra> even though i'd love to see vnc through html working first :P
<cbx33> haha
<Burgwork> everybody I have seen do it uses java
<cbx33> that would be awesome.....
<ogra> Burgwork, only at the website, i didnt install it
<cbx33> but..
<Burgwork> ogra: imbrandon has a setup and I am about to get one going
<ogra> well, anyway, web is beyond our focus atm, but the API will be there
<Burgwork> looks really interesting, is actively developed, have a number of DDs on staff
<cbx33> Burgwork, care to blog/howto about it once you're done?
<Burgwork> cbx33: will do
<Burgwork> it requires some hacking to run on Feisty, due to upstart
<cbx33> is something I'm keen at looking at too
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ogra, are we going for this pop up install x11vnc pacakge thing?
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> explain why it can't be a dep?
<Burgwork> can't you use vino?
<ogra> because you cant install a dep inside a chroot
<cbx33> oh i see
<cbx33> yeh sorry
<ogra> ;)
<cbx33> can't it be a dep for the chrrot?
<cbx33> i mean when building the chroot?
<ogra> no
<ogra> that would make *all* ltsp installs vnc servers
<ogra> thats not what we want
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> it needs to be installed dependant on SCP being installed
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> what do you think about userlist filtering ?
<Burgwork> ogra:  have you seen http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/FastUserSwitching
<Burgwork> ?
<ogra> seems easy enough to me
<cbx33> yeh i think so
<ogra> Burgwork, nope, i havent
<Burgwork> Davidz is working on it
<ogra> aha
<Burgwork> it is an FC7 goal
<Burgwork> it looks interesting for the "who is where" use case
<ogra> i'm usually not a big fan of davidz's GUI works ... lets see
<ogra> cbx33, ok, so i see the prio as follows:
<Burgwork> is not a gui
<ogra> * Multiple server control (split front/backend)
<cbx33> yup
<ogra> * Blank / Lock Workstations
<ogra> (because its so easy)
<ogra> * Remote desktop access
<ogra> * Filter functionallity of the userlist
<ogra> * Tiled class overview via VNC
<sbalneav> ogra: I'm working through jetpipe.  I'm going to make it command line equivalent to the old lp_server.  I.e. a -w, -d <device> -t <stty opts>, etc.  That ok with you?
<cbx33> is that bottom one doable in feisty you think?
<ogra> i'll care about the remote desktop access stuff and about renaming etc
<ogra> sbalneav, totally, i was just to lazy :)
<sbalneav> No problem.
<cbx33> ogra, you lazy...?
<ogra> cbx33, the bottom one is a nice to have
<sbalneav> Ogra's the *last* person in the world I;d call lazy.
<cbx33> me too
<cbx33> ogra, I think it would be awesome
<ogra> and sharing teachers screen is likely for feisty+1
<cbx33> posibility to make those thumbnails clickable?
<cbx33> for a full screen preview?
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> possible to take control of screen?
<ogra> but thats a huge task
<ogra> and i'm fearing we end up with it half implemented
<cbx33> which ?
<ogra> the tiled VNC thing
<cbx33> just making it bigger
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> what do you see as the problems?
<ogra> so if you want to work on it, please do it in a separate bzr branch
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> vnc is a beast
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> a beast we shall tame
<ogra> well, but it will take its time ...
<cbx33> of course
<ogra> i dont want to rape it ;)
<cbx33> I'm not saying it'll be done over night ;)
<ogra> just tame :)
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> so I now have something to work on after christmas
<ogra> yeah
<cbx33> doubt I'll get anything done before
<cbx33> if I'm being perfectly honest
<ogra> nobody forces you to ;)
<cbx33> but i like to
<cbx33> and I hate letting you all down if I dont
<cbx33> oh ogra one last thing....any word on how to get this glade working
<cbx33> for the ldm screen
<cbx33> ?
<Burgwork> cbx33: always better to under promise and over deliver
<ogra> to be honest, i have no idea whats wrong there
<cbx33> grr
<cbx33> sounds like a bug to me
<cbx33> do you know what the catalogs it's talking about are?
<cbx33> and where they are located?
<ogra> it may be that gnomecanvas isnt supported anymore by recent glade implementations
<cbx33> that would suck
<ogra> well, gnomecanvas is dying in favor of cairo
<cbx33> leaves us with an out of date ldm glade file
<Burgwork> I wonder if I could get Userful to merge our stuff into SCP...
<ogra> but cairo isnt there yet
<cbx33> Burgwork, explain?
<ogra> so there is an unfilled gap
<cbx33> yeh
<Burgwork> ogra: we have a web-based thingy like SCP, called DiscoverAssisst
<ogra> you can try to redo the ldm engine in cairo if you have to much spare time ;)
<cbx33> dued I've never even used cairo
<cbx33> not about to start screwing with that yet
<cbx33> too much else to do
<cbx33> though I'd like to
<ogra> Burgwork, aha, well, i guess you could merge stuff, yes
<cbx33> I wouldn't really know where to start
<ogra> a cairo rewrite is on my list for ldm ... but its far down at the bottom atm ...
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> maybe when you get to that stage I could help out
<ogra> it will take some releases to get that far down the list :)
<ogra> but i'll think of you if i get there
<cbx33> ok
<Burgwork> ogra: if you split the backend, life gets more interesting
<ogra> ok, i'm afk until distro meeting ...
<Burgwork> http://userful.com/products/discoverassist
<ogra> Burgwork, split ?
<Burgwork> split SCP, sorry
<cbx33> Burgwork, SCP is goign to be split
<ogra> ah
<ogra> yes
<ogra> ok ... bbl
<cbx33> thanks ogra
<cbx33> it took us a while but has been really good
<Burgwork> cbx33: once you split the backend, are there plans to make it work on standalone machines?
<cbx33> explain?
<Burgwork> make it so, if you have a lab of 30 machines, you can install the backend on each and the front end on one and have it work?
<Burgwork> assuming each of those 30 machines is a fat client
<Burgwork> ogra: have you guys talked with the stateless Linux people? Fedora is doing some cools things with systems management
<cbx33> yes i was interested in stateless at one point
<Burgwork> cbx33: basically, with ltsp fat clients, that is basically the same as stateless
<cbx33> ah ok
<willvdl> folks, I'm out. catch you tomorrow afternoon
<cberlo> Hi folks.  Got a (hopefully) quick question:  how would I kill all processes from users that aren't logged on (execept daemons and system users)?
<cbx33> write a script
<Burgwork> cberlo: upon the user logging out, kill all their running processes
<cberlo> Burgwork: Okay, and with ldm, how do I detect when they logout?
<cberlo> (sorry, got tied up for a bit there)
<Burgwork> I have no idea
<cberlo> cbx33: a script would be a good idea.  I'll try that.  What would you put in it?  :)
<sbalneav> Do all your users run the same kind of desktop?
<sbalneav> i.e. gnome-session?
<sbalneav> I guess, more to the point is: what's being left around that you feel you need to kill off?
<Burgwork> sbalneav: in a public environment, you want to kill anything that people leave running, for security reasons
<sbalneav> Burgwork: I'm trying to find out WHAT's being left around.  If it's only the users' gconfd, there's no harm in that staying there: it doesn't need to restart next time then.  If it's something else, then that may point to a bug, or a misconfiguration.
<Burgwork> right
<cberlo> sbalneav: bonobo is leaving a process behind that seems to affect nautilus upon re-logging in.  Basically, I'm not pulling a proper desktop, and plugging in USB storage devices isn't visually registering (but they are accessible if you know where to look, which I'm assuming my students won't).
<sbalneav> If you kill off the bonobo process, do things work correctly, then?
<cberlo> Don't have access to the server at the moment (just spent the afternoon testing a new lab with it, and noticed as I logged in and out of the account I used for testing that it occasionally left this one bonobo process running; killing it seemed to fix the Desktop glitches I was experiencing).
<cberlo> sbalneav: In short, yes.  :)
<cberlo> sbalneav: I had thought to use ps aux to narrow down the running processes, but I wind up with an assortment of daemons and such in the mix, so grepping to remove what I know should not be killed is a lengthy process.
<cberlo> sbalneav: Basically what I was trying to do is grab a list of who's running processes vs. who's logged in (except for the root process) and kill any processes that were running but didn't belong to anyone logged in.
<sbalneav> OK, well, there's two courses of action here.  Most importantly is to file a bug on Bonobo, as it should exit correctly upon session termination.  The second would be running a script to clean up.  Something along the following lines.
<sbalneav> #!/bin/bash
<sbalneav> for each user in $(getent passwd | awk '$3 > 999 {print $1}'); do
<BHSPitLappy> got a little question
<BHSPitLappy> we have an ubuntu desktop running at home, and I was curious if I could install edubuntu-desktop and have its environment run for just a particular user.
<sbalneav>    pgrep -u ${user} gnome-session || pkill -u ${user} bonobo
<sbalneav> done
<cberlo> As soon as I have Internet access on that server again I will file an appropriate bug.  About that script...  what's the awk supposed to do?  I'm not fully versed in awk...
<sbalneav> I typed that off the top of my head, so you'd need to play around with it a bit.
<sbalneav> the awk looks at your passwd file, and any user that has a userid greater than 999 (i.e. 1000 and above) it will return the username
<sbalneav> you can try it on the command line by itself
<cberlo> right, just figured that part out.  :)
<cberlo> Running it on my own laptop here, and watching the results.
<ogra> that might kill yourself :)
<sbalneav> that means you wont look for any root, etc processes.
<sbalneav> yeah, you'd want ot be running that as root
<sbalneav> not as a user :)
<cberlo> Yes, so fairly safe to play with as me...
<sbalneav> well, except for the pkill part.  You'll return your name, and kill your own processes
<sbalneav> which will log you out.
<cberlo> So the pgrep greps the processes for gnome-session then kills bonobo if it doesn't find it?
<sbalneav> yes
<sbalneav> that's a very simplistic way of doing it, but...
<cberlo> Okay, here's my revision:  for user in $(getent passwd | awk '$3 > 999 {print $1}'|cut -f1 -d:); do echo $user; pgrep -u ${user} gnome-session || pkill -u ${user} bonobo; done
<cberlo> Now, where can I put that so that it runs when someone logs off?  Or should I just stick it in a cron job?
<sbalneav> ah, yeah, forgot the separator in awk.
<sbalneav> awk -F: '$3......
<sbalneav> then you can ditch the cut.
<cberlo> good.  I'll learn awk yet!  :)
<cberlo> So, ogra, what runs at logout that I can stick that little script in?
<ogra> nothing, you need to stick it into ldm
<cberlo> ogra: You'd be proud of me:  I used Edubuntu LTSP 6.10 without hacking the ldm out of it this time!  30 user setup.
<cberlo> ogra: Okay, so how do I modify ldm, then?
<ogra> nice :)
<cberlo> Oh, and a side question:  what kind of memory would you suggest for the following configs:  10 user, 30 user, 60 user?  My estimate was 1GB, 2GB and 4GB.  Fair?
<sbalneav> That seems reasonable.
<cberlo> I gotta run.  I'll have to pick your brains again tomorrow.  Thanks for the assistance, sbalneav!  A lot cleaner than what I was working with.  And I'll get that bug report in ASAP!
<ogra> ah, crap, he's gone
<ogra> he could have used LDM_REMOTECOMMAND for what he wanted
<ogra> err
<ogra> LDM_REMOTECMD
<blue-frog> hi aquickie if I may.. where the login window GUI saves the security information (automatic login...)?
<Marco``> hi ppl
<Marco``> is edubuntu available in multilanguage?
<Marco``> I need it in german
<Marco``> #ubuntu was faster ;)
<Marco``> ty anyway
#edubuntu 2006-12-22
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<bddebian> Heya
<Solaris444> hi fellas.
<Solaris444> I was just wondering if Canonical offers support for edubuntu?
<Solaris444> as in professional support.
<Solaris444> And also do you know if the new Ubuntu Certified Professional covers edubuntu?
<pipedream> join #ubuntu-classroom
<pipedream> argh
<BHSPitLappy> I asked this earlier, but...
<BHSPitLappy> we have a ubuntu desktop here at home, and I was wondering if it would be doable to have the edubuntu environment going for a particular user
<BHSPitLappy> but not all
<pipedream> I did an aptitude install edubuntu-desktop, I think back in dapper
<pipedream> It changed default fonts for ubuntu-desktop users, and theme, and so on
<BHSPitLappy> I don't really want things like the usplash and other artwork getting replaced
<pipedream> It didn't have a separate session to choose from on the login screen (both are gnome)
<BHSPitLappy> so my question was a pipedream, basically?
<pipedream> edubuntu should have a session choosable at the login
<pipedream> BHSPitLappy: dunno if it has been fixed, changed, or if it is possible
<pipedream> BHSPitLappy: wait around here and see if someone answers
<BHSPitLappy> I might test that on a livecd
<pipedream> BHSPitLappy: you can reverse theme/usplash changes, and have the user set them personally again (not usplash, theme and menu and artwork, I guess)
<pipedream> but it's not nicely separated
<pipedream> then again, isn't one-click patented?
<pipedream> ha
<BHSPitLappy> perhaps in synaptic, I could have it checkmark the packages deps
<BHSPitLappy> and then I can manually unmark the artwork one
<pipedream> but you want the artwork for the single user
<pipedream> you must update-alternatives a few things to reverse
<pipedream> then have the single user change all these little things -- not nice
<BHSPitLappy> well
<BHSPitLappy> it's probably not worth all this fuss
<pipedream> I speak under possible correction, so I'll shut up now
<BHSPitLappy> it's something I'd do if it was fairly convenient
<BHSPitLappy> but otherwise, not that important
<BHSPitLappy> I was just thinking it might be nice, since my mom homeschools my brother
<pipedream> it works well with ubuntu- kubuntu- xubuntu- and possibly fluxbuntu-desktop, and any other window manager's installed
<pipedream> managers
<pipedream> but they all have separate session managers
<pipedream> sorta
<Solaris444> pipedream, is kubuntu supported by canonical?
<BHSPitLappy> as much as edubuntu is
* kgoetz pokes UbuntuStats 
* kgoetz drats at ltsp
<kgoetz> now i'm getting two errors: first " * INIT: cannot execute "/sbin/getty" ", and the second is " * INIT: Id "[1-6] " respawning too fast: disabed for 5 minutes" (the 1-6 means there is the error for each nujmber), and between them is 3 nfs:rpc errors. then it says " * INIT: no more processes left in this runlevel ", then 3 more nfs: rpc things
<kgoetz> :(
<kgoetz> hm, i shold probably ask in #ltsp actually. and or
<MrGreen> Anyone home?
<Solaris444> I was just wondering if Canonical offers support for edubuntu?
<cberlo> Morning folks.
<kgoetz> hi
<cberlo> Anyone got snow out there?
<bddebian> Heya
<toosa> hi
<toosa> night
<sbalneav> Morning all
<toosa> it is 21pm at Jakarta :)
<sbalneav> Well, it's morning here, so when I greet, that's what I use.
<sbalneav> Your localization routines should translate my greeting into the appropriate greeting for your timezone.
<toosa> no probl
<sbalneav> :)
<toosa> :)
<toosa> where r u ?
<sbalneav> Me?
<sbalneav> Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
<sbalneav> I'm both an LTSP and Edubuntu developer.
<toosa> ic, its nice to know you sbalneav
<sbalneav> Likewise
<toosa> I am new in edubuntu
<toosa> we just start Edubuntu Indonesia LoCo
<toosa> http://edu.ubuntu-id.org/ -> but unfortunately the server looks down today
<toosa> btw, need to sleep ... by all
<cbx33> duuuuuuuudes
<MrGreen> quick question.... got an old laptop going want to install edubuntu would loading xubuntu be a good base?
<mrlinux> nautilus fails it wont load
<neoliminal> Hello!  I was hoping to find some software that would allow my 1 year old to smack keys on the keyboard and get sounds to come out.  Has anyone made anything like this for kids?
<neoliminal> Anyone around?
<mrlinux> i am here
<mrlinux> i have heard of something like that but i would look at source forge
<neoliminal> ok thanks
<neoliminal> !
<highvoltage> electro, what an odd nick.
<Electro> I'm having problems with my upgrade, I get a message from synaptic during the modification of the software channels
<Electro> I get this:  fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/edgy-security/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2 Sub-process bzip2 returned
<Electro> anybody there
<Electro> helloooooooooooooooooooo, does anyone exist?
<stgraber> yep, but can't really help you
<Electro> *_*
<stgraber> maybe check that you can download that file manually and "bzip2 -d" it correctly
<Electro> what?
<stgraber> if that works that's a problem with apt
<Electro> well I'm using synaptic
<stgraber> so try : sudo aptitude update
<stgraber> in command line
<Electro> I'll try
<stgraber> maybe you will get more details that way
<Electro> It just got new package lists
<stgraber> and no error that time ?
<Electro> no
<Electro> only synaptic reports errors
<Electro> even during normal updates
<Electro> 1 connection error
<Electro> hey
<stgraber> do you have the same problem if you do the updates using update-manager ?
<Electro> aloha, update-manager is synaptic
<stgraber> ok :)
<Electro> it has to modify 44 software channels
<Electro> is that normal?
<Electro> earth to stgraber? r u there
<stgraber> well not really :)
<stgraber> what do you mean by software channels ?
<Electro> the repository indexes
<stgraber> ok
<Burgwork> Electro: yes, that is normal
<Burgwork> let it run
<Electro> well it gives me this
<Electro> http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/edgy-security/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2
<Electro> as an error
<Electro> Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/edgy-security/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2 Sub-process bzip2 returned an error code (2)
<Electro> Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/edgy-security/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2 Sub-process bzip2 returned an error code (2)
<stgraber> simple and stupid question, but is bzip2 installed ? :)
<Electro> i'll check
<Electro> yup
<stgraber> ok :)
<Electro> i'll be back in 5, find a solution pls?
<stgraber> if that's just doing updates, do them manually but that's not a final solution :)
<Electro> can I use the LiveCD to upgrade?
<Electro> hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<Electro> stgraber r u there
<Electro> Anybody
<Electro> hellooo
<Electro> hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<Electro> anyone
<Electro> hello
<Electro> help
<Electro> help
<Electro> help
<Electro> anbody
<Electro> please
<Burgwork> Electro: please don't do that
<Electro> hello
<Electro> anybody
<Electro> help
<Burgwork> Electro: please don't spam the channel
<Burgwork> no, you cannot use a livecd to update
<Burgwork> however, you can use an alternate cd
<Electro> which cd is that
<Burgwork> the alternate one, it is listed on the download page
<Electro> the install only?
<Electro> burgwork
<Burgwork> not the desktop, the alternate cd
<Electro> I only see live and install versions
<Electro> burgwork
<Burgwork> where are you looking?
<Electro> I don't see alternate
<Burgwork> give me the url where you are looking
<Electro> ok
<Electro> http://nl2.releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.10/
<Burgwork> ah, right, for edubuntu there is no desktop and alternate
<Burgwork> you need the install
<Electro> so I use the install iso
<Electro> right?
<Burgwork> burn it, and then insert it on the installed machine
<Electro> thx
#edubuntu 2006-12-23
<phire> xchat doesn't show me the user list, is anyone in here?
<kgoetz> hehe. yes
<kgoetz> try /who
<phire> oh well newayz the reason I'm here is I need to have linux AUTOMATICALLY read the clipboard when it changes
<phire> I have looked everywhere on google that I can thing of
<phire> I would write it myself but I am new to linux :|
<phire> is there anything I can download for that or a site that has info on how to access xclipboard from a shell script?
* kgoetz shrug
<kgoetz> ahahahaha. active people on irc. classic
<phirestalker> ya well it was a pipe dream
<phirestalker> I'm too impatient for email or message boards
<phirestalker> u know I wouldn't have this problem if another user of the computer didn't need speech :(
<kgoetz> :(
<phirestalker> I've tried to convice all my friends that linux is better but they are all too lazy to switch lol
<phirestalker> what other rooms or servers could I possibly get help from at this hour, do you know?
<kgoetz> your questions kinda odd. you could try any gnome or x related channels. i suspect they would be your best bet
<kgoetz> gnome offically lives on gimpnet, but iirc theres a channel here
<Electro> how do I erase a cd-rw
<Electro> I can't upgrade edubuntu via cd, it get to 840-something packages and stops, and then whines that it needs an internet conn
<Electro> can anyone help me
<sascha7675> Hi mein Name ist Sascha, ich habe ein Problem mit edubuntu und komme da nicht weiter. Ich habe den Terminal server in betrieb und kann mich nicht vom Client anmelden. bekomme immer die meldung Login incorrect
<gnomefreak> !de
<ubotu> Deutschsprachige Hilfe fuer Probleme mit Ubuntu, Kubuntu und Edubuntu finden Sie in den Kanaelen #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #xubuntu-de und #edubuntu-de
<sascha7675> ok vielen Dank fr die Info
<pygi> hello everyone
<pygi> since I probably won't be here, Merry Christmas everyone
<pygi> all the best in the upcoming holidays
<cstextiles> I ave Ethernet Card but Edubuntu installation errors that there is no Network Interface?
<cstextiles> What to do?
<cstextiles> Truying to install Edubuntu 6.06  but it says There is No Ethernet card detected. But I have Ethernet Card with which i am accessing the Internet
<cstextiles> Truying to install Edubuntu 6.06  but it says There is No Ethernet card detected. But I have Ethernet Card with which i am accessing the Internet
<cstextiles> Truying to install Edubuntu 6.06  but it says There is No Ethernet card detected. But I have Ethernet Card with which i am accessing the Internet
<LaserJock> are you doing a server install?
<pygi> e
<cstextiles> Yes I m doing a Server Install
<LaserJock> cstextiles: I'm really not sure why it says that
<LaserJock> perhaps it is looking for a second ethernet card
<LaserJock> as many people are not on IRC because of the holidays you might want to email the edubuntu-users mailing list
<cstextiles> Ya I Think so
<MrGreen> like can you install edubuntu on top of xubuntu?
<sascha7675> Hallo und einen guten Abend an alle
<stgraber> !de | sascha7675
<ubotu> sascha7675: Deutschsprachige Hilfe fuer Probleme mit Ubuntu, Kubuntu und Edubuntu finden Sie in den Kanaelen #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #xubuntu-de und #edubuntu-de
<sascha7675> ok vielen dank fr die info
<sascha7675> problem habe nach den channel edubunu.de gesucht aber den scheint es nicht zu geben
#edubuntu 2006-12-24
<Yagisan> hmm, when did ltsp-server get a dependency on openbsd-inetd ?
<Burgundavia> Yagisan: recently
<Yagisan> :/
<Burgundavia> file a bug
<Yagisan> its causing "issues" with the edgy -> feisty upgrade
<Burgundavia> file a bug
<Yagisan> Burgundavia, looking to see if it has already been reported - lp isn't exactly what I consider user friendly
<Burgundavia> hey, it is what we have
<Yagisan> I know - I've been trying to use it since hoary
<Yagisan> there we go. Bug #77041
<Yagisan> now to investigate why my raid enabled system does not boot on amd64 feisty
* Yagisan waves bye as he disappers into lp
<kgoetz> Yagisan: was nice knowing you ;)
<Yagisan> (I was far more active here when I had more time - alas, its all taken up these days :/)
<Yagisan> found it. Bug #75052 :/
<cstextiles> Trying to install Edubuntu 6.06 But it stops at 50% for about one hour at "Building LTSP chroot" Option
<kgoetz> cstextiles: is the teh live cd, or the text mode installer?
<cstextiles> It is not a live cd but installer
<cstextiles> does Edubuntu comes with a Live CD?
<kgoetz> i hear it does, but i dont /know/ for sure
<cstextiles> well i did not got the Live CD
<kgoetz> when its diong the 'building ltsp chroot' bit, press alt+f4
<cstextiles> What that will do?
<kgoetz> and look at whats being printed onto your screen, it might help track down the problem
<kgoetz> show you the logs
<cstextiles> Thanks actually today I am not at that system but this might help me
<cstextiles> And yes one more probs
<cstextiles> When I am trying to install Edubuntu on my second PIII PC with 256 MB RAm then it cannot detect Network Card?
<Amaranth> kgoetz: edubuntu's livecd is desktop only
<kgoetz> what sort of network card is it?
<cstextiles> Realtek
<kgoetz> Amaranth: oh, ok. thanks for letting me know :)
<kgoetz> realtek not working? :|
<kgoetz> um
<cstextiles> The version of Edubuntu is 6.06
<cstextiles> that network card is properly detected by other OS
<kgoetz> does the system install? it might be good if you could show us the dmesg output
<cstextiles> OK I am working from the same machine this error can be shown by me as I am working on the same machine
<cstextiles> I will logout and relogin to this IRC channel after 15 minutes to give u output of this network card?
<kgoetz> that would be good, tahks
<kgoetz> syslog is probalby the main thing to see
<cstextiles> well the system does not install
<kgoetz> oh. :o
<kgoetz> ok.
<cstextiles> so will I be able to see the output at the screen
<kgoetz> yes, should be. if you look at f4
<cstextiles> ok i will logout and show u output
<cstextiles> Bye for 5 minutes
<kgoetz> thanks :) good luck
<cstextiles> Initial last messages during no ethernet detection is create_node:symlink(hdb5,/dev/disc7)failed: File exists
<cstextiles> and after that Firewire Ethernet interface is asked to which I say no and then it again seraches for Ethernet and the message comes main-menu[2169] : Debug: virtual package ethernet-card-detection
<cstextiles> And I searched for LTSP chroot bug and I think this bug may be affecting it https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/portmap/+bug/61668
<cstextiles> So How to clear the bug and start installing Edubuntu 6.06
<cstextile1> LTSP chroot bug at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/portmap/+bug/61668 is affecting my Edubuntu 6.06 install as I am unable to do that install how to clear that bug and start installing?
<cstextile1> LTSP chroot bug at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/portmap/+bug/61668 is affecting my Edubuntu 6.06 install as I am unable to do that install how to clear that bug from the ISO and start installing?
<cstextile1> LTSP chroot bug at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/portmap/+bug/61668 is affecting my Edubuntu 6.06 install as I am unable to do that install how to clear that bug from the ISO and start installing?
<cbx33> hey all
<cbx33> anyone here?
<cstextiles> LTSP chroot bug at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/portmap/+bug/61668 is affecting my Edubuntu 6.06 install as I am unable to do that install how to clear that bug from the ISO and start installing? 
<jgedeon> cstextiles: I haven't ran into that.  I've done both 6.06 and 6.10 installs.  An am currently working with 6.10 not sure if I am going to go back to 6.06.
<cstextiles> In my machine it hangs for an hour and so cannot understand the installation
<Amaranth> He keeps posting that, the bug he links to says it stalls the install for 5 minutes
<jgedeon> I've never seen the bug in any of my installs I so I wasn't able to help.
#edubuntu 2007-12-17
<ari_stress> morning all :D
<ace_suares> hi all. I added some ideas to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ltsp-software-management, comments welcome
<ari_stress> what's that
<ari_stress> has anyone tried to install FL_teacher tool in ltsp5 ubuntu?
<pygi> yo
<ScorpFromHell> ari_stress, that comes setup by default in a server mode installtion of Edubuntu (both LTSP & FL_teacher)
<ScorpFromHell> ari_stress, is there a specific reason why you need to setup LTSP on Ubuntu & not go with Edubuntu?
<ari_stress> owww
<ari_stress> that's nice to know ScorpFromHell
<ari_stress> hmmm
<ari_stress> i guess i should setup edubuntu
<ari_stress> no reason actually
<ScorpFromHell> ari_stress, just remember to download the server addon CD too irrespective of whether you want to install it from the desktop CD or the server CD
<ScorpFromHell> also ari_stress, get the server CD, the desktop one doesn't have LTSP & FL_teacher
<ari_stress> ok, server CD. got it
<ScorpFromHell> ari_stress, there's however a small flaw that you need to fix before you can bask in LTSP glory
<ScorpFromHell> you need to edit /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf to suit your network
<ari_stress> i have my dhcp.conf works currently
<ari_stress> actually the ltsp5 works ok now. my ltsp is authenticated to ldap. this is the problem. ldap user is not seen in thin client manager / fl_teachertook
<ari_stress> ok, i'm downloading it. looks like it takes 2 days to download the 2 cds
<ScorpFromHell> ari_stress, haven't tried out LTSP with LDAP yet, was planning it as my next step
<ScorpFromHell> thanks for letting me know, I will be on the lookout for issues :)
<ari_stress> ScorpFromHell: not really difficult, especiall when using auth-client-config
<ari_stress> very convenient
<ari_stress> i'm lucky as the package has just been release on 12 dec 07
<ari_stress> previously we must edit pam.d manually
<ari_stress> i gtg now
<ari_stress> see you all, ScorpFromHell
<me4u> hello
<me4u> could anyonme help me with a video prob
<me4u> d/l mplayer but I'm getting errords
<bddebian> Heya
<adelie> wow, anyone here?
<me4u> anybody tell me how to install a .bin file?
<Zarxrax> hi, I was wondering if edubuntu is appropriate for installing on a home laptop? The website sounds like its primarily for use in a school setting.
<Zarxrax> We are getting a laptop for my younger sister who is 10 years old, and I am looking for an appropriate linux distribution
<johnny> it's not much diff than regular ubuntu, except with other apps installed
<johnny> so you could just install ubuntu and then all the edu apps you want
<Zarxrax> oh ok
<Zarxrax> is the regular version of ubuntu with gnome recommended?
<johnny> uhmm.. by who?
<johnny> and vs what?
<Zarxrax> vs the kde version, im wondering what would be better for a child
<Zarxrax> easier to use I guess
<HedgeMage> Zarxrax:  Yes, I have set both ubuntu and edubuntu up on lappies before
<Zarxrax> I'm not yet a linux user myself
<johnny> then are you sure you should be giving linux to your sister?
<johnny> not that i don't try to promote linux wherever i can...
<Zarxrax> if i give her windows, i know there will be headaches :p
<johnny> but you really should use it yourself first imo
<HedgeMage> Zarxrax:  The main difference between Edubuntu and regular ubuntu is the art, selection of programs, etc
<johnny> otherwise you're going to have headaches learning all sorts of new stuff
<pygi> HedgeMage is here o.O
<johnny> at least you already know the windows headaches
<HedgeMage> pygi:  yes :)
<pygi> the old crew is almost back o.O
<johnny> i'd suggest you get your own linux install going before giving it to her
<johnny> and, i would suggest gnome over kde
<johnny> but that's personal preference
<pygi> oh, and one more thing you get with Edubuntu is Edubuntu Handbook :P
 * pygi hides
<Zarxrax> well, i'll set it up to dual boot, in case linux doesnt work out for her
<Zarxrax> i want to learn about it myself
<HedgeMage> Zarxrax:  I'd suggest edubuntu above other distros for a 10yo -- just expect to have some learning to do too
<Zarxrax> I cant use linux on my own pc, since I really need windows for many of the things i do
<pygi> Zarxrax: there's this nice thing called dual boot
<pygi> you should try it sometimes :)
<HedgeMage> heh
<Zarxrax> booting into different os's would screw up all my stuff like webserver, torrents, etc
<pygi> heh, and ofcourse all that does not and cannot work on linux :P
<pygi> </sarcasm>
<HedgeMage> give him a break, guys -- one step at a time :)
 * pygi eats HedgeMage 
<Zarxrax> well i mean, constantly swapping back and forth would make it problematic
<HedgeMage> ooh!
<Zarxrax> anyways, ill give regular ubuntu a shot and see how it works out
<HedgeMage> Zarxrax:  good luck, we're here for questions and such
<johnny> Zarxrax, also, vmware or virtualbox can help
<johnny> so you could run a linux install inside windows
<johnny> or vice versa
<pygi> yup, what johnny said ... vbox is probably easier for a new folks
<pygi> new folk*
<pygi> bluekuja: you as well o.O
<Zarxrax> actually, i've tried that in vmware, and could never get it to work
<pygi> Zarxrax: try virtual box
<Zarxrax> the graphics would be garbled or something
<pygi> and ask if you have questions
<bluekuja> pygi, OMG
<bluekuja> pygi, are you up again??
<Zarxrax> would virtual pc work? I have that installed now
<pygi> bluekuja: I'm not on Mount Everest, no!
<bluekuja> pygi, lol
<johnny> i don't know
<johnny> never used virtualpc
<pygi> Zarxrax: that's that Microsoft stuff?
<bluekuja> pygi, long time no see, where did you go?
<Zarxrax> yes
<johnny> i dont' have any windows installed
<johnny> anywhere
<pygi> no idea of it's linux support :-/
<pygi> don't use windows sorry
<pygi> bluekuja: I was always somewhere on the face of the Earth
<Zarxrax> ok, well thanks for the help guys
<pygi> yw, drop by any time
<pygi> be aware of this bluekuja folk tho ... biting and such :P
 * pygi hides
<bluekuja>  /kick pygi
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> oh damn, you're hidden!
<bluekuja> it won't work
<pygi> well, most of the old edubuntu edition seems to be here =)
<bluekuja> yep! mhz is missing
<bluekuja> but I saw him some days ago around here again! what a surprise!
<pygi> pete is also not around much anymore
<pygi> oh well
<pygi> times change
<bluekuja> yeah :/
<bluekuja> I don't see pete since months
<pygi> I could sms him to come online, but he's probably busy now
<bluekuja> he's not on msn anymore as well
<bluekuja> maybe he's busy with family and his work on that school
<pygi> he is, yes
<bluekuja> aww :/
<bluekuja> pygi, news from brasero?
<bluekuja> are you working on it?
<pygi> ah, not anymore, no
<bluekuja> why?
<pygi> but Philipe (less, baby :)) and Luis are doing good work on it
<bluekuja> I thought you were the main developer
<pygi> well, I moved to lower spheres ... changing way how burning works on linux ;)
<pygi> bluekuja: http://libburnia-project.org
<pygi> bluekuja: not really, I just worked on it  a bit.... back then Phillipe was main developer (and basically still is) since he founded a project
<bluekuja> pygi, oh cool! what do you do now?
<pygi> bluekuja: I just gave you url :P
<bluekuja> pygi, yeah, I mean for *buntu
<pygi> oh, nothing
<bluekuja> oh k :)
<pygi> too much things changed .... years passed even
<pygi> I did work for ubuntu during the Google Summer of Code tho
<bluekuja> pygi, will you start again somewhen?
<pygi> no idea ... why?
<pygi> there are a lot of contributors now in general to ubuntu, things are not as before
<pygi> and I do more work upstream
<bluekuja> yeah, I think thats enough from your side
<bluekuja> you gonna rediscover the burning-side of Linux
<bluekuja> ehehe
<pygi> :p
<pygi> doing some ruby work lately, and such :)
<pygi> it's fun :P
<bluekuja> pygi, do you still live near me?
<pygi> hehe, yes :P
<bluekuja> we'll have to meet up
<bluekuja> :)
<pygi> you said that few years ago xD
<bluekuja> lol
<pygi> no time, uni and hacking getting in a way :-/
<pygi> I cant even attend FOSDEM :(
<bluekuja> same here, too many things to do
<bluekuja> if you'll come to a DebConf
<bluekuja> we'll meet there
<pygi> nop, probably not
<bluekuja> why?
<pygi> *possibly* GUADEC
<pygi> 1) No idea when or where is DebConf
<pygi> 2) Gotta save money for GUADEC
<bluekuja> lol
<pygi> anyway, lets go pm xD
<pygi> thiis is edubuntu channel, not debconf or random talk channel :P
<bluekuja> true :)
<johnny> reminds me
<pygi> little fish left!
<pygi> omg :(
<johnny> anybody know of any projects/chats where non distro folks get together to work on projects that are not all necessarily related?
<pygi> explain? :P
<stgraber> anyone familiar with python subprocess module here ? I would like to 1) store the stdout of a command in a variable (works fine with stdin=subprocess.PIPE) 2) and that's the problem, I'd like to show the output live in the terminal too
<stgraber> any idea how I can do that ?
<johnny> pygi, i'll explain a bit later, i realize i'm going to late to an appointment
<pygi> k joh
<steph_> hi everybody
<steph_> is there a way to use JACK on a thin client?
<steph_> Do i have to chat in french or english?
<kgoetz> english is prefered
#edubuntu 2007-12-18
<ari_stress> morning all :D
<FW_Squatch> New guy here.  I was wondering everyone's thoughts on what are the advantages of using edubuntu instead of plain old ubuntu?
<kgoetz> depends on the target audicence, and what you want to use it for
<FW_Squatch> I teach 8th grade computer classes.  I was wondering how I could sell Linux to my Tech Dept
<FW_Squatch> My class teaches basic productivity stuff like MS OFfice suite and some photo editing
<kgoetz> i'd go with ubuntu, based on my 6.06 experiance with edubuntu, but not tried any recent version (dont know if its less 'primary' feeling)
<kgoetz> brb 2 min
<Dante123> Hi All!  Where is a good place to discuss educational software ideas with programmers?
<Dante123> Opensource of course!
<FW_Squatch> Wish I could help.  I have no idea.
 * kgoetz isnt sure
 * ari_stress is not a programmer 
<ari_stress> FW_Squatch: have u tried ltsp with plain ubuntu?
<HedgeMage> Dante123:  I can knock some ideas about with you if you'd like -- there is unfortunately not a general forum I'm aware from for edu software
<kgoetz> Dante123: are you ater someone to develope something, or just to kick idaas around?
<ari_stress> hello ogra, u there?
<FW_Squatch> no, I have not.  I've only run ubuntu at home for my normal desktop.  I haven't gotten a chance to do anything with it at work yet.
<kgoetz> 'dead easy' springs to mind (at least it was 18 moths ago !)
<ari_stress> well, i have tried it and generally it's ok. but, i'm having trouble setting up student control panel with ldap
<ari_stress> using local users works wonderfully though
<ari_stress> i'm trying edubuntu now. they say it has student-control-panel pre-installed
<Dante123> Hi guys...I have an idea that I developed with a friend using Hypercard on mac....I am a teacher and still use some of the worksheets and activities I made on the original program with my students....however...I'd like to see the idea updated to run on linux....or perhaps be web-based...so teachers, students, and parents could use it
<kgoetz> what is hypercard?
<Dante123> An old program that ran on the older Macintoshes....
<kgoetz> that does what? :|
<ari_stress> Dante123: some kind of memory training?
<Dante123> Its for spelling instructions....uses word families....and activities to help students learn and remember proper english spelling.....could be applied to other languages too though.
<Dante123> Spelling instruction i mean
<ari_stress> Dante123: i think i remember similar program in linux
<ari_stress> kvoctrain, something like that, from KDE
<Dante123> Well, I have some sample activity pages in pdf format to give a better idea?
<ari_stress> i'd love to see that :)
<Dante123> see if this link works (I was getting some bulgarian educational types to help work on it...but they haven't done much- still in school themselves...here is the link:  http://spellinator.edudev.org/attachment/ticket/2/spellinator.pdf
<ari_stress> ok
<Dante123> ari_stress are you there?
<Dante123> Did you see the file?
<Dante123> Here is the main activity I'd like to see programmed first:  Create a box where the user can enter 15 words that are then used to create a series of "boxes" using squares and rectangles to represent the words. i.e. cat would be two squares and one rectangle
<ari_stress> Dante123: yes, sorry i went to another room. just got back
<Dante123> no prob
<ari_stress> still downloading
<ari_stress> the internet in my country is soooooo slow
<ari_stress> has anyone tried thin client manager with ldap?
<kgoetz> ari_stress: where are you located?
<ari_stress> south east asia, indonesia
<kgoetz> ah right
<kgoetz> afk. lunch
 * kgoetz waves from .au
<ari_stress> hello neighbor :D
<Dante123> ari_stress the bulgarian site that file is on is SLOW too....so it isn't just your country
<ari_stress> Dante123: i've just finished downloading it
<ari_stress> looks good
<ari_stress> how do we use it?
<ari_stress> you said it's for kids of how old?
<Dante123> well....the teacher selects words....that have a pattern or rule they follow....then the program creates activities with the words.  The word boxes activity is very visual and helps students see the shape of the word and help visual memory.  The program produced strictly printed pages....I'd like to see it be online app with drag and drop etc. to match words with their shape etc.
<Dante123> but I would like to see printable pages as part of it too....so that students or parents can print a hard copy for later practice.
<ari_stress> yes i notice the shape of the boxes :D nice hints.
<ari_stress> the drag and drop can be achieved using flash apps
<ari_stress> but the printing version... i'm not so sure, might need another apps
<ari_stress> or the flash programmer can create a menu to print it
<Dante123> yes,  believe me if you had a website where the teacher could choose 10-20 words and the students would then complete this activity online or teacher prints a copy....traffic would start coming to your site....help with google ad dollars
<ari_stress> how about using moodle?
<ari_stress> it's a very good online learning tool
<ari_stress> www.moodle.org
<Dante123> I use moodle with my students...but I don't know how this would fit in.  I think this needs to be flash based or something...
<Dante123> Start with online app version (printable can wait)....teacher enters say 15 words that fit a pattern and the program makes the word boxes activity, the missing letters, alphabetic order, syllables etc.
<Dante123> student then go on and complete the activities the teacher gave them....maybe the program records a score......I guess moodle could do some of that...but I'm not sure how.
<ari_stress> Dante123: after some thoughts..
<ari_stress> i think we can ask a programmer to make a dynamic flash program
<ari_stress> so that teacher can define what words to use
<ari_stress> then the program will generate the layout/problems
<ari_stress> what do u think?
<Dante123> that sounds about right.
<Dante123> I have many word lists that have examples of word families....already typed and used in the prototype program.....a screen could come up and the teacher scrolls through the list looking for words that fit patterns etc.
<ari_stress> yes
<ari_stress> we can put those words into the database, and then we can use them for the lesson
<Dante123> yes
<ace_suares> Dante123: interesting idea
<ace_suares> you could create an account on launchpad.net
<ace_suares> and start a blueprint
<ace_suares> describe your idea
<ace_suares> maybe some people will chime in
<ace_suares> in any case you can point some people to the spec
<ari_stress> that's a good idea
<ace_suares> ari_stress: you can install thin-client-manager in ubuntu
<Dante123> is launchpad net...free...open source place
<Dante123> it is the ubuntu idea place right?
<ace_suares> Dante123: just have a look and then ask that question again ?
<ace_suares> ari_stress: student-control-panel is now thin-client-manager
<ace_suares> but you still start it with 'student-control-panel'
<ace_suares> apt-get install thin-client-manager-gnome
<ace_suares> but works in kde too.
<ari_stress> ace_suares: yes i have installed it
<ari_stress> it works ok with local user (/etc/passwd), but with ldap users, it cannot see them
<ace_suares> so working with ldap is the prolem
<ari_stress> i havent found the workaround
<ace_suares> problem
<ari_stress> yes
<ace_suares> maybe there is no support for htat
<ace_suares> look at the code :-0
<Dante123> do I just select register a blueprint and start putting my idea up that way?
<ari_stress> the worst case scenario i guess
<ace_suares> Dante123: first make an account and then yes, register a bluprint
<ace_suares> first read a coupe of blueprints please
<ace_suares> mind that you're not making an 'ubuntu' bueprint
<ace_suares> you're just using launchpad to make your own blueprint
<ace_suares> that might one day get into ubuntu
<ace_suares> who know
<ace_suares> who knows :-)
<ace_suares> ari_stress: you can mail ogra too
<ace_suares> just go to his launchpad page and find the email address
<ace_suares> he's not been here for a couple of days I think he is in spain or something
<ari_stress> i have emailed the ltsp-discuss list. havent tried directly to ogra though
<ari_stress> oh
<ari_stress> ok :D
<ari_stress> nice to hear that he's on holiday
<ace_suares> and on the ltsp channel, you can sk the bot :_)
<ace_suares> just use !seen user like: !seen ogra
<ace_suares> try it :-)
<ace_suares> ari_stress: probably not on holiday, something with guadarelinux or something
<ace_suares> large, very large spanish distro
<ari_stress> i see
<ari_stress> so much about linux i haven't heard of
<ari_stress> need to learn a lot
<ace_suares> ari_stress: ane keep on learning forever since it's going so fast no one can keep up :-)
<ace_suares> Dante123: waht are the long and short boxes to mean ?
<ace_suares> Dante123: you should make your pdf smaller, just put the images in the GIMP or some other photeditor and convert them to greyscale
<ace_suares> and then scale them to 800 pixels wide (leave the height to be calculated automagically)
<ace_suares> and then make gif's of it or png or jpg.
<ace_suares> Will eb not more then 40 k per page !!!!!
<Dante123> okay...will use the gimp....
<Dante123> the letters like l k t are the rectangles...and letters like s a c e are squares...and p y g are rectangles that go below the squares...visual activity
<Dante123> so the word cat would be two squares and a rectangle going above the squares.
<Dante123> gotta go to be now...take care
<Dante123> got to go to bed I mean...nite
<ari_stress> good evening all
<bddebian> Heya
<jthomas> Has anyone experience with installing and using KDE (kde-base) on Edubuntu?  Does it work well?  Any suggestions or tips?  Any reason not to do so?
<RichEd> jthomas: what are you trying to acheive ? use KDE apps on Edubuntu, or Edubuntu apps on KDE
<jthomas> I want to achive a KDE Desktop
<RichEd> jthomas: then as far as I know, you can start with a Kubuntu install, and then install the edubuntu applications package ... let me check that quickly
<jthomas> I also read about the edubuntu-desktop-kde package
<jthomas> I am sure your approach would work, or this meta-package if available.
<jthomas> but I want to avoid a lot of the Kubuntu packages and installing Edubuntu seems to be the best way to get education apps and games, and then kde-base to get the basic KDE on top...
<RichEd> ogra: you around ?
<RichEd> jthomas: the best people to give advice on this would be: ogra (edubuntu) or Riddell (kubuntu) ... neither seem to be around at the moment
<RichEd> perhaps send a post to edubuntu-devel and edubuntu-users ?
<jthomas> Well... I have to go out of the office for a while, so we'll just see if anyone pipes up in the next few hours.  Otherwise, I'll just try it out!
<jthomas> there is an 'edubuntu-desktop-kde' package
<jthomas> thanks!
<Riddell> edubuntu-desktop-kde would be the best way to get a KDE desktop with edu apps
<RichEd> thanks Riddell :)
<reiner_> hello
<jthomas> Thank you Riddell and RichEd ("edubuntu-desktop-kde would be the best way...")
<pygi> yo
#edubuntu 2007-12-19
<neil_d> how much memory does a client need ?
<kgoetz> client== thin client?
<kgoetz> 64mb memory iirc
<neil_d> kgoetz: yes it does, thanks
 * kgoetz uses 128, but thats because i had 128's handy
<carbon_unit> Hi all!
<carbon_unit> I have an edubuntu question.
<HedgeMage> carbon_unit:  ask it and we might have an answer
<carbon_unit> Can edubuntu be setup so that someone on the internet with a windows client can login to it?
<carbon_unit> Like I can go home and login with a windows machine?
<kgoetz> VNC of some sort?
<neil_d> carbon_unit: I don't know, but one way is to make the home dual boot linux.
<carbon_unit> Well I run Linux at home but the students may not have that option.
<carbon_unit> But they can terminal serve in from the internet?
<kgoetz> terminal service in your mind being...?
<carbon_unit> from the internet they can get a login prompt and log into their account on the edubuntu server seeing their edubuntu desktop.
<carbon_unit> or what can they do?
<kgoetz> if you make the system available to the internet, and install something like vnc on it, they can
<kgoetz> afk. putting our new work server in :)
<kgoetz> back in a few hours
<carbon_unit> So I don't really need LTSP to do this, VNC will work instead?
<kgoetz> what your asking requires something other then ltsp
<kgoetz> afaik
<kgoetz> bug really gone now ;)
<carbon_unit> Cool. Thanks!
<carbon_unit> Laterz.
<neil_d> is there a url that explains how to setup the server to run 64bit and the client 32bit ?
<eljefe_> can anyone tell me how to fix compiz on edubuntu?  the apps always start blank
<eljefe_> i think it needs something added in /etc/X11/xorg.conf but i don't know what
<neil_d> seen the artigo at www.mini-itx.com make a good ltsp terminal
<lns> neil_d, for $358 USD?? Damn expensive thin client! =)
<lns> it does look very slick though
<Goosemoose> what are the stats on it?
<Burgundavia> RichEd: finally getting around to adding your stuff to the fridge
<RichEd> thanks Burgundavia ... much obliged
<Burgundavia> no worries, sorry about the crazy delay
<neil_d> lns: didn't say cheap
<killsalad> hello i've got bit problem with ubuntu7.10 ltsp and local device access - on thin client everything is ok and server has all required software,  but there's no directory with device content
<ScorpFromHell> I need to install edubuntu on 100 machines of same config, can I use Ghost to copy the disk image to all the machines once I install it on one machine?
<ScorpFromHell> Is there an OEM option for installing Edubuntu?
<RichEd> ScorpFromHell: ghost should work fine
<ScorpFromHell> Thanks RichEd
<RichEd> ( try one before you do the whole batch :)
<ScorpFromHell> RichEd, ofcourse :) NEver thought I would run into this problem this soon!!!
<Jay-Oh-En> can anybody here help my friend ScorpFromHell install edubuntu on 100 pc's
<ScorpFromHell> JAy-Oh-En, I tried asking here too :) RichEd let me know that Ghost can be tried out.
<Jay-Oh-En> ok kool
<`6og> or mondo, or preseeding
<RichEd> ScorpFromHell: there is also an open source ghost equivalent ... if you want to go pure and side-step licence fees rather than avoid them
 * `6og cant remember the name of the mass netinstall tools
<ScorpFromHell> RichEd, we have Ghost licenses, thats why I wanted to know if we could use that. We plan to donate our old machines to some schools :)
<RichEd> ScorpFromHell: okay :)
<RichEd> == channel note = there will not be an edubuntu meeting today ==
<RichEd> ( due to ogra not being available & RichEd on a half day and wrapping up for leave )
<`6og> heh.
<`6og> ScorpFromHell, you should check out mondo too, just so if the schools ask you, you can give them an option
<ScorpFromHell> `6og, let me check out mondo
<`6og> ScorpFromHell, the version in dapper has nagware in it, but the later versions are all "clean"
<`6og> wb
<ScorpFromHell> btw, may be I should give a background about my group first :)
<`6og> please do :)
<ScorpFromHell> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-bangalore-non-tech/message/6991 has some deets
<ScorpFromHell> in short, based in India, multiple locations
<ScorpFromHell> aim to bring cheap ICT to schools
<`6og> nice.
<`6og> similar to what ITShare SA do ( http://www.itshare.org.au )
<ScorpFromHell> Wow!! That's a cool idea ... but not applicable in India :D people do not have much computers in the first place to donate in viable numbers
<ScorpFromHell> still, I guess I could start something on those lines to get donations from the IT companies
<`6og> its taken us almost a decade to get to where we are, but its finally starting to get bigger
<Jay-Oh-En> you guys are amazing
<`6og> hehe.
<Jay-Oh-En> i wish i could do that here in vegas
<ScorpFromHell> `6og, sorry ... got dc
<ScorpFromHell> had a short blackout :( its the darn rains maybe
<`6og> ScorpFromHell, no worries
<pips1> isn't there supposed to be a meeting now?
<pips1> did i miss it?
<`6og> <RichEd> == channel note = there will not be an edubuntu meeting today ==
<`6og> <RichEd> ( due to ogra not being available & RichEd on a half day and wrapping up for leave )
<ScorpFromHell> When do the meetings happen? And what happens in those meetings?
<pips1> `6og: thanks
<`6og> pips1, np
<pips1> ScorpFromHell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda
<pips1> in the first half we talk about ongoing development, in the second meeting half we talk about issues relevant to users of edubuntu
<pips1> got to run..
<pips1> bye
<ScorpFromHell> `6og, gotta go too ... will keep peeping in time to time :)
<`6og> ScorpFromHell, look forward to seeing you again :)
<bddebian> HNeya
<airjump> hi
<skipper> Can someone help me with a problem?
<ScorpFromHell> `6og, found a possible answer for my 100 m/c install issue ... http://www.debuntu.org/how-to-unattended-ubuntu-network-install
<Goosemoose> has there been any progress on the integration with AD that's happening in hardy?
<johnny> AD integration already works in linux for the most part i think
<johnny> i assume that they are just going to make it a bit easier..
<stgraber> IIRC Ubuntu has a spec about using alternative authentication modules (ldap/ad/nis/...) and some tools are now there to make that easier to configure
<johnny> hmm.. no idea..
<stgraber> mainly by creating profiles, then being able to switch between profiles
<`6og> iirc there was a bug in libpam re AD
<stgraber> auth-client-config and authtool that's (from a quick apt-cache search)
<Goosemoose> i have ad integration setup by manually editing a bunch of conf files
<Goosemoose> but there's an integration going into hardy that was making it a one liner
<Goosemoose> i forget who was working on it now
<Dante123> Looking for some programmers  http://sourceforge.net/projects/spellinator
<Dante123> looking for some programmers  http://sourceforge.net/projects/spellinator
<johnny> Dante123, for how much?
<Dante123> this is open source....gratis
<Dante123> but you'll sleep easy at night knowing you've done your part for literacy!
<johnny> i get paid for open source
<johnny> i work on the system level already.. to make the overall platform better
<johnny> as well as various web apps
<Dante123> well, that's good.  This is basically a program that teachers/parents would use with elementary school children...
<johnny> i'm suprised edubuntu doesn't already have something like that
<Dante123> The original was made on an old mac using Hypercard.....I'd like to see the basic idea revived....
<johnny> yeah.. i'm just wondering if something already exists
<Dante123> I'm new to using sourceforge....so I put up there what I could.....no nothing quite like it exists.  There are programs/sites that will give you activities similar to some of these....but not all of them...and they are canned...in other words you have to work with the words they give you.
<Dante123> The difference here is the control is put back into the teacher/parents hand....
<johnny> maybe you can get folks who are already working on edu apps to do it
<johnny> like kde edu
<Dante123> So if you were doing a unit in a different subject- say social studies, you could pick words related to that....or if you want to focus on a prefix or suffix....there are word lists that come up and give you lists of words that fit the pattern....you select the ones you want.
<Dante123> I will try there.  Thanks.
<Dante123> any other irc chat channels you think I should look into?
<johnny> i don't know where the gnome edu folks hang out
<johnny> or you could try building the app in the application called glom
<johnny> it's sorta like MS access
#edubuntu 2007-12-20
<ari_stress> morning all :D
<kgoetz> morning :)
<ari_stress> wazzup kgoetz
<kgoetz> trying to fix a broken wiki at work :/
<kgoetz> one of the not 100% successful bits of yesterdays upgrade
<ari_stress> what wiki do you use?
<kgoetz> currently php wiki, but we are aiming to migrate to mediawiki RSN. (amusing really, i hacve to get phpwiki working before i'm alowedd to get rid of it)
<ScorpFromHell> anybody tried DHCP/TFTP/preseeding apprach to mass install Ubuntu/Edubuntu? how does it compare to doing a disk image copying using tools like Norton Ghost or PartImage?
 * johnny guesses it is slower
<johnny> if you're using all sorts of different HDs tho
<johnny> preseeding would be the better way
<kgoetz> depends what your infrastructure is, and the plan for all the systems mid-long term
<ScorpFromHell> johnny, the HDs are similar, we have nearly 100 machines but with only 3-4 different types of configs
<ScorpFromHell> kgoetz, the systems are old machines used in our org & are now to be donated to various NGOs who would further distribute them to schools
<ScorpFromHell> currently trying out an option similar to http://www.debuntu.org/how-to-unattended-ubuntu-network-install using DHCP/TFTP/Preseed files
<johnny> that would work nicely
<ScorpFromHell> johnny, which one would work nicely? Preseed / disk image?
 * kgoetz is is havingn a total braindead on teh subjet of netinstalls
<ScorpFromHell> it would be cool if we could have an idiot proof option for netinstalls :(
<johnny> isn't it?
<johnny> i mean.. there's onlly so low you can go
<ScorpFromHell> then we could go all out for world domination :D
<johnny> if it's preseeded, there shouldn't really be any options
<johnny> just walk around and turn the PCs on
<johnny> you can't get much more idiot proof than that
<kgoetz> settin up the infrastrcture is (can be) very error prone
<ScorpFromHell> oh, that part is idiot proof, johnny
<kgoetz> collcting 100mac addresses an getting them into teh dhcp config for a start
<ScorpFromHell> am stuck up in getting the infrastructure running, and am having to get it done remotely, like some 1000KM away :(
<ScorpFromHell> kgoetz, yeah, agree, infrastructure is _the_ pain
<kgoetz> ScorpFromHell: i've done the cd image method, i did lots of readinag about teh netinstall method.
<kgoetz> sorry about the spelling, somewhat lagged :(
<kgoetz> chose to do cds, beecause it was easier for the people helping me
<ScorpFromHell> kgoetz, did u put up a wiki/blog about it? the whole exercise & the experience I mean
<kgoetz> ScorpFromHell: no, we didnt :/ i planed to, but other things took over, and i havent thought about it recently. it was for ITShares PNG computer shipment
<ScorpFromHell> ah ... the ITShares folks ... `6og shared me their URL yesterday ... we are doing something on those lines ... but all for free ... http://scorpfromhell.blogspot.com
 * kgoetz is `6og 
<ScorpFromHell> ooops :D
<kgoetz> itshare only startd charging after almost goign broke. (and the $20 fee isnt to hard methinks :p)
<ScorpFromHell> well ... actually, we are doing it for free as part of our CSR
<kgoetz> csr?
<ScorpFromHell> I let my wife know of this & she was, we can start something like that here too :)
<ScorpFromHell> csr= corporate social responsibility ... "suit" speak for social welfare activities
<kgoetz> ah
<kgoetz> like santos donating us their gear :)
<ScorpFromHell> csr is so that the "suits" all don't rot in hell ;)
<kgoetz> hehe
<ScorpFromHell> kgoetz, I also came across a thread suggesting using PartImage in the SystemRescueCD which is a LiveCD
<kgoetz> not familr with tehm
<ScorpFromHell> partimage is something like norton ghost for linux ...
<ScorpFromHell> looked it up yesterday ... I have suggested to give a peep, lets see what the guys come up with
<ScorpFromHell> also, was wondering if we could include AptOnCD by default in the Server Add-on CD
<ScorpFromHell> where should I suggest this? Blueprints on launchpad?
<kgoetz> filea  wishlist bug, and do a blueprint saying how you think it would work
<ScorpFromHell> tx kgoetz, am coming back to all this irc, bug reporting stuff after almost 7 years! got to become a "suit" in the meantime :(
<kgoetz> :/ welcome back, hope we can save you ;)
<ScorpFromHell> yeah, I plan to win back my soul as yet :D lol
<ScorpFromHell> kgoetz, gotta go to fix my wife's notebook, will be away
<ScorpFromHell> btw, what timezone are you in? me GMT+5.5
<kgoetz> GMT+9.5
<kgoetz> Thu Dec 20 15:08:36 CST 2007
<kgoetz> date: unrecognized option `--gmt'
<kgoetz> Try `date --help' for more information.
<kgoetz> hm.
<kgoetz> Thu Dec 20 04:38:59 UTC 2007
<kgoetz> yes, 9.5
<kgoetz> (utc)
<kgoetz> (--utc, not --gmt)
<neil_d> any ideas where I could find a user manual for a ga-pcv2 pc-1500 mini-itx motherboard
<ScorpFromHell> is there anything that allows you to setup a netboot server that would copy disk images instead of using preseed files to setup systems?
<ScorpFromHell> something like what Ghost does for Windows?
<johnny> uhmm.. partimage? doesn't it do that?
<johnny> plus there was ghost4linux
<johnny> but they had to rename it
<johnny> i forgot
<johnny> but i bet you can still find it
<ScorpFromHell> johnny, k let me check that up ... I found PING http://ping.windowsdream.com/ping/howto-2.01.html
<RichEd> ScorpFromHell: check this page see if it helps
<RichEd> http://schools.coe.ru.ac.za/wiki/Install_and_Replicate_Operating_Systems
<RichEd> actually scrap that ... the netboot section isn't helpful
<ScorpFromHell> thanks riched, am also following up http://www.sysresccd.org/Sysresccd-manual-en_PXE_network_booting based on johnny's clues
<RichEd> there is a help.ubuntu page but it says it does not work for gutsy :(
<RichEd> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/LocalNet
<somerville32> RichEd, poke
<RichEd> mr somerville32 :)
<somerville32> RichEd, and updates? :)
<somerville32> *any
<`6og> <ScorpFromHell> is there anything that allows you to setup a netboot server that would copy disk images instead of using preseed files to setup systems?
<`6og> ^^ at LCA in sydney someone did 'ubuntu live' which was effectively that. dont remember who or how though :/
<ScorpFromHell> `6og, Well this seems promising: http://www.sysresccd.org/Sysresccd-manual-en_PXE_network_booting
<ScorpFromHell> `6og: only that this needs min 280MB RAM in the client m/cs ... so need to create a custom CD as per http://www.sysresccd.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1763
<`6og> ScorpFromHell, how much ram do you have?
<ScorpFromHell> `6og: the steps to create the custom cd are here: http://www.sysresccd.org/Sysresccd-manual-en_How_to_personalize_SystemRescueCd
<ScorpFromHell> `6og, some systems have 256, some have 512
<ScorpFromHell> this is a cross between the netinstall & disk image ... effectively providing a netboot using SystemRescueCD distro & using PartImage to create & copy disk-images
<`6og> looks likely. is it free software?
<ScorpFromHell> `6og, yes ... its all open source
<bddebian> heya
<rusty> http://tinyurl.com/249rjg
<ian__> hi, i've got a disklessworkstation 170 and i can't seem to figure out how to get it to work in ltsp5 (gutsy)
<ian__> i have the 170 dvi model
#edubuntu 2007-12-21
<lns> has anyone had any progress with the 100% CPU Nautilus bug in Gutsy upon user logout?
<lns> I can't seem to find the bug in LP
<semaja2> howdy, anyone here able to help me?
<HedgeMage> semaja2:  until we hear your question we won't know
<HedgeMage> :)
<semaja2> lol well applications like gcompris and tuxpaint have stopped working, they wont load
<semaja2> the process starts but just doesnt start etc
<semaja2> other apps like blackjack work tho
<HedgeMage> that's odd
<semaja2> id prefer not to reformat for this
<HedgeMage> have you tried running them from a terminal to see if any errors are shown?
<semaja2> yeh it starts but gets stuck
<semaja2> in compris it gets upto the point where it says where the database is
<semaja2> no errors tho
<HedgeMage> hmm
<semaja2> i did a reinstall of gcompris but didnt help
<crimsun> LTNS, HedgeMage.
<HedgeMage> crimsun:  yep, my life is back down to the usual level of insanity
<crimsun> HedgeMage: good to read : )
<HedgeMage> thanks :)
<Bauer|> hi. How can I make edubuntu accept clients from other network-segments?
<Bauer|> I changed the IP-adress to 10.84.8.10 and ran a ltsp-update-sshkeys
<Bauer|> now edubuntu accepts clients from 10.84.8.*
<Bauer|> but this is a server-segment, the schools is at 10.84.10.*/10.84.11* and so on
<Bauer|> these are not accepted on logon...
<Bauer|> ?? ltsp-update-sshkeys prints no result? Now I can't even log on from the same network-segment..
<RichEd> hi anestis
<anestis> hi Rich, sorry for the delay
<RichEd> that's okay ... lets join #educonlinux
<anestis> ok
<nonsparker> Hey Guys
<mcfloppy_> hello
<mcfloppy_> how can i set in lts.conf which xorg config should be used?
<mcfloppy_> [192.168.0.205]
<mcfloppy_>    X_CONF = xorg.conf.dual
<mcfloppy_> dont work
<mcfloppy_> and with absolute path also dont work
<steph_> I've installed gutsy and there is an applet for noetworking management. When I change properties (DHCP or anything else) it looks like I need to restart the network daemon. Am I wrong?
<steph_> I have two interfaces (for ltsp)
<bddebian> Heya
<arnath01> hi, does edubuntu ship with any software that is suitable for teaching kids in primary school? (so ages 6-12)
<arnath01> because i've been looking at the site a bit, and i seem to find tools for 12+ and 6- but little for in between (i might be overlooking something)
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  there are a few good things -- off the top of my head, anagramarama (letter scramble game) and hangman come to mind, also fish fillet (logic ga
<HedgeMage> ...logic game)
<arnath01> ah :)
<arnath01> my mother teaches in a primary school on a tight IT budget, i'm thinking of demonstrating edubuntu + thin clients
<HedgeMage> cool
<HedgeMage> where are you in the world?
<arnath01> belgium
<arnath01> HedgeMage: the thin clients require no hard disk at all correct?
<HedgeMage> correct
<HedgeMage> ahh, cool
<arnath01> ah good, that saves a bit more money on each pc hehe :)
<HedgeMage> if you are buying thin clients rather than stripping down old pcs, there are a few on the market that have very low power consumption and are small and cheap (think 200-350 USD each)
<arnath01> o nice
<arnath01> i haven't really decided yet if i should go for new ones or old ones (primarily because i'm not sure how many they would need and where i could get em all :))
<HedgeMage> there are pros and cons to each
<arnath01> true, but the cheapness of old ones overcomes the benefits of new ones in my opinion
<arnath01> only problem is getting enough old ones :)
<HedgeMage> you can usually get old machines donated that would serve well as thin clients, but they take up lots of space and power (usually 400 watts for an old pc vs. 5 watts for a thin client)
<arnath01> ouch, didn't know it was that big a difference
<HedgeMage> yep
<johnny> hmm.. the PCs i'm using have 90watt power supplies, but i'm sure it can add up overtime
<HedgeMage> that's not bad
<arnath01> indeed
<HedgeMage> it depends on how old the old pcs are ;)
<arnath01> what's the best strategem for getting my hands on some screens?
<arnath01> old ones as well?
<arnath01> or is there like a cheap lcd screen that would be suited?
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  it's hard (at least here) to find used monitors in working condition
<HedgeMage> most people keep those until they die
<arnath01> HedgeMage: indeed, i can attest to that with an 8 year old monitor that i bought second-hand back then :D
<arnath01> (still works like a charm ;))
<arnath01> but is there such a thing is a lowcost lcd screen? (that still has some resemblance of performance)
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  if you're going to buy more than 5 or 10 at a shot, get ViewSonic or Sony or some other big company with a history of good educational discounts to assign you your own sales rep -- then milk them for every money saver they can think of
<arnath01> HedgeMage: hehehe, do you know of a ballpark figure there?
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  Depending on how many you are buying, you may be able to find something suitable at around 100 USD if you aren't too picky
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  ymmv of course ;)
<arnath01> ah ok :)
<HedgeMage> but, investing in monitors doesn't hurt too much -- they tend to last forever
<arnath01> HedgeMage: not the cheap ones ironically... :D
<johnny> corporate folks on an upgrade cycle?
<arnath01> and a decent one would be nearing the price of the entire thin client, which may be a bit overboard
<arnath01> johnny: indeed, but how do you get in touch with those? :)
<arnath01> is there like a national forum for companies dumping old equipment?
<johnny> spend a few hours on phone calls i guess
<arnath01> ah :P
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  hmm -- I have a $140 lcd panel I bought in 1999 that is still going strong
<johnny> good idea tho
<arnath01> i'm in for a bit of fun i see ;)
<johnny> thrift stores?
<arnath01> HedgeMage: nice :o
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  yep :)
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  yay for bargain hunting! (that was REALLY cheap back then)
<arnath01> indeed, back then lcd was a novelty :D
<arnath01> johnny: hmm, not sure if we have an equivalent of that in belgium :p
<HedgeMage> wow, my son is snoring, but his eyes are open, all glazed over watching a movie
<johnny> arnath01, people don't donate their old items anywhere?
<arnath01> johnny: "donate" not so much, second hand selling ye, but big companies don't post on those sites
<johnny> they don't have that charitable guilt syndrome in belgium?
<arnath01> johnny: (at least that i'm aware of)
<johnny> not big companies
<arnath01> they might, but then i'm totally oblivious of it :P
<johnny> i was just speaking of individuals donating to thrift stores
<johnny> or similiar that is
<johnny> for religious support
<arnath01> johnny: still not that i know off :P only the second hand shops
<johnny> or charities that sell items from it
<johnny> it's like a second hand shop people can write off on their taxes :)
<arnath01> hah nice :)
<johnny> no charitable writeoffs in belgium?
<arnath01> hmm, i think that's a possibility, but i don't know of any large centers that handle it
<arnath01> but i may simply be too ignorant on that subject :P
<johnny> it's not usually a large thing, many charities have their own.. like for the hospital
<HedgeMage> johnny:  I think most European countries do VAT instead of income tax
<johnny> aha.. i always get confused about VAT
<johnny> one day i'll actually need to know
<arnath01> HedgeMage: up until just now, i thought that was the same hehe :)
<arnath01> what's income tax then?
<HedgeMage> johnny:  depending on how it's implemented, it can be better or worse than the US system -- but at least it's always less paperwork!
<johnny> yeah.. that's what i want :)
<johnny> lol
<arnath01> :D
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  In the US, you get taxed up to three times, depending on where you live...
<arnath01> thats nasty :|
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  first, you pay federal tax based on your income -- unfortunately, in all the years congress has made so many tax breaks and then other taxes to cover them (they try to use tax incentives to create social policy) that the tax code is tens of thousands of pages long
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  so it's a horribly complicated process, and anyone who has the money to hire a good tax professional can pay a lot less than their fare share (which everyone else has to make up)
<johnny> well.. some of them are good
<johnny> like credits for going to college
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  then, every state has its own sales tax (but they don't have the power to tax inter-state transactions, so many also have a state income tax to make up for it)
<johnny> yes.. state income tax.. yay
<johnny> lol
<HedgeMage> johnny:  that could be done outside the tax code though
<johnny> needa debug it like an open source project.. sadly the compile time is too long ...
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  then, each local govornment (at the city, township, or county level) has a property tax that all landowners pay
<johnny> it's like 1000 times longer than openoffice
<johnny> on a 486
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  based on the value of the property and where it is located
<HedgeMage> johnny:  I think all laws should be submitted as patches under revision control (preferably git)
<HedgeMage> ;)
<johnny> wikis are easier for them to use
<johnny> merging branches would be difficult :)
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  anyhow, the tax codes in the US are horribly complicated, and large companies will do anything for a tax break (as both companies and the people who own them pay tax on income)
<arnath01> damn hehe
<johnny> and if you work for yourself... 15% here in maryland
<arnath01> sometimes you just wish they'd start off with a clean slate ;)
<HedgeMage> johnny:  it's far worse in Illinois
<johnny> start our own country..
<arnath01> we have the same problem in belgium, though possibly in a different way, the short of it is that taxes are simply too complex
<arnath01> and getting exponentially more so each year it seems
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  someone I'm having a related convo with wants to know if donations to charitable organizations in Belgium are taxed, and if charitable organizations pay tax on anything
<arnath01> HedgeMage: heh, not a clue really
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  okay :)
<HedgeMage> we were debating the current US tax system vs "fair tax" (a system proposed for use in Indiana) vs Euro-style VAT
<arnath01> "fair tax", a contradiction if ever i heard one :P
<HedgeMage> heh
<HedgeMage> basically, it's a VAT with charitable organizations being exempt, and a flat prebate to even the playing field a bit between the impoverished and everyone else
<HedgeMage> I think it sounds interesting, though I'm not sold on it yet
<arnath01> i don't know nearly enough on the subject to take an educated stance, but it does seem to be nice :)
<arnath01> in belgium they are considering to fill in the tax papers before sending them to the people (at least fill in the draft)
<arnath01> so unless you have a reason to think it's wrong, you could just copy it
<arnath01> now that would be a sweet idea
<HedgeMage> heh
<arnath01> it does not solve the real problem, i know :D
<arnath01> but it solves MY problem :D
<HedgeMage> :)
<arnath01> HedgeMage: should i be interested in helping translation efforts for edubuntu, any idea where to start?
<HedgeMage> arnath01:  I'd start by checking out the translator team on launchpad.net -- I'm afraid I don't recall it's name, though
<arnath01> ah will have a look :)
<HedgeMage> (I only know English and a little ASL, so not very useful there)
<arnath01> :)
<arnath01> ah, why does a day only have 24 hours, there's so much i want to do :<
<HedgeMage> I know the feeling
<HedgeMage> hi ced37
<ced37> Hi, hows things?
<HedgeMage> okay, I guess
<ced37>  Good, Im just checking this irc out for the first time, I have a 15 pc edu install im tinkering with at the moment, in my classroom
<HedgeMage> cool
<ced37> Yeah, the kids like it, I had a few problems with my older thin clients upgrading to 7.10. but 7.04 is wonderful!
<ced37> Alrighty then, hakuna matata, and keep fighting the good fight, better get some breakfast, chow for now!
<judgement> hello i need help w/multiseat and thin client
<steph_> Sorry if you read the same message on another channel. I've send it 10 minutes ago.
<steph_>  Ok, I'll try to explain my problem (which I don't understand that much). I have 2 network intefaces: one goes to the web, the other to the router. If I ping the router, it says "Destination Host Unreachable". I'm on the same subnet. When I try to admin the router from a M$, everything is well (conclusion: the router works). Do I have to setup something like firewall, conf file or something else ? Any help would be appreciated.
<steph_> Thanks
<steph_> I'm running Gutsy
#edubuntu 2007-12-22
<Dante123> any programmers in here?
<HedgeMage> Dante123:  better to just ask the question and we'll answer if we can
<JordanC> Dante123: Shhhh.. if you are vewwy vewwy quiet
<JordanC> You may see one in the wilderness
<JordanC> ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<mwright1> has anyone tried running the LTSP server (not the dhcp/bootp and NFS stuff for the client) but the server under xen
<mwright1> and got the kernel extensions working for sound/local devices?
<mwright1> I'm working on a project to develop a server appliance for schools running on HP DL380 16GB / 500GB RAID 5 that does everything runs a few xen instances.
<mwright1> to give MTA database desktop and maybe voip  (but undecided on voip - as it's real time)
<bgergo94> !Casey
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about casey - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Casey> ?
<bgergo94> ii heard about the ! command in IRC
<t94xr> Casey, you dont exist.
<Casey> NOES
<t94xr> yup sad aye
<t94xr> your parents will be devastated...
<theunixgeek> How do I install libqt.so.1? I need it to run a mechanics simulation program.
<johnny> install qt?
<theunixgeek> johnny: but which package
<johnny> i don't know
<johnny> i'm not familiar
<johnny> but a web search might tell you
<store> my system monitor is full screen and it has no title bars. I can't make it a window. how do i do it?
<johnny> never heard of that
<johnny> sounds like a bug..
#edubuntu 2007-12-23
<peanutb> i have installed edubuntu server on an extra computer, but i cant seem to get the dhcp server running
<peanutb> ah. i havent configured a subnet yet
<Burgundavia> peanutb: you need to configure a subnet wherein the static IP of one of the nics is in that subnet
<peanutb> Burgundavia: after some looking, i slapped myself ont he head for forgetting to set an ip for eth2
<peanutb> thanks
<Burgundavia> no worries
<Burgundavia> sometimes it is the simplest stuff that gets you
<Burgundavia> what are you using LTSP for?
<peanutb> just messing around with it
<peanutb> my school already has a laptop program, so it would be sorta useless here
<peanutb> well
<peanutb> edubuntu would be great
<peanutb> but the netadmins are macheads
<peanutb> Burgundavia: do you know if the lockdown manager needs something special for the settings to take affect
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> it should just work
<peanutb> hmm
<Burgundavia> you need the profile editor as well
<johnny> sabayon has some bugs in it that prevent it from being that useful tho
<johnny> i have reproducible crashes all over the place
<johnny> i do have some patches for them tho
<peanutb> it seems to be letting the test account change its own lockdown privlages and doesnt implement them at all
<johnny> were you trying to run the lockdown thingy inside the profile session?
<johnny> or in the containing window
<peanutb> in the Thin client manager
<johnny> thin client manager? that has options for lockdown?
<peanutb> yes
<Burgundavia> johnny: sabayon really truly needs an upstream maintainer
<johnny> i'd suggest you just go in the menu in your ubuntu install
<peanutb> doesnt seem to work very well tho
<johnny> Burgundavia, i'm applying for an svn account
<Burgundavia> afaik, peanutb, that only works in the running session
<Burgundavia> ie: it does not save it
<johnny> federico vouched for me
<johnny> we'll see
<peanutb> ah
<johnny> i don't know if i want to be the "maintainer"
<johnny> but i am going to make it work
<johnny> and apply all the patches i've seen
<peanutb> ohh maintaining is easy... you just get others to do the work for you
<johnny> and my own
<johnny> sure.. but then you get yelled at for not doing any work :)
<johnny> this is more like a serial patch spree
<johnny> ocne it gets up to where i need it to
<johnny> i prolly won't have time.. as then i need to focus on other junkz
<johnny> our lil organization is pretty tech
<Burgundavia> johnny: have you chatted with federico?
<johnny> yes
<johnny> he wouldn't have vouched for me otherwise now would he :)
<johnny> we rely on tech.. but don't have enough techies
<johnny> makes me a bit sad
<johnny> working on it
<Burgundavia> why does working on it make you sad
<Burgundavia> ?
<Burgundavia> because nobody else does?
<johnny> i wasn't speaking about sabayon..
<johnny> i mean in general
<johnny> yes
<johnny> the required skillset is pretty deep
<johnny> to be ableto float around to the different areas that need taclked at any given time
<johnny> tackled*
 * peanutb shakes his head
<peanutb> terminal doesnt seem to want to be locked
<johnny> did you to to System | Administration | User Profile ... | Lockdown ?
<peanutb> yes
<johnny> not just System | Administration | User Profile Manager
<johnny> err
<johnny> not just System | Administration | Lockdown Editor
<johnny> it's very rare to find folks who have deep experience in so many areas Burgundavia
<johnny> basically.. up and down the OSI stack :)
<peanutb> hmm... error starting gnome settings daemon
<johnny> yeah.. i get that in the profile editor sometimes
<johnny> that's something i'm going to work on
<peanutb> despite my trials, i cannot block terminal
<johnny> aha.. didn't notice that
<johnny> cuz we don't block terminals
<peanutb> i know
<johnny> only locking the panel
<peanutb> im going for a theoretical situation where the admins are nazis
<peanutb> aka my school
 * peanutb mumbles about how they are going to block all websites not on an allow list next semester
<johnny> that'll be impossible to maintain
<johnny> there will be a riot
<peanutb> thats what i am thinking... but we shall see
<peanutb> those are the very words i told the net admin
 * peanutb is a pseudo intern with them
<johnny> there are tons of pages out there that will be asked to be added
<johnny> they won't be able to keep up with the demand
<peanutb> my point exactly
<Burgundavia> peanutb: sabayon needs to have a white/black list of allowed apps
<peanutb> but of cource the staff get less restricted access because they will be on a different subnet
<johnny> and then if they rely on kids to ask teachers for access to certain websites, how is the teacher gonna know the site isn't exploited to pull you right out via some browser in a browser technique :)
<peanutb> Burgundavia: exactly
<peanutb> its only on the teacher's encrypted wifi access
<peanutb> Burgundavia: OSX 10.5 does that really well, signing all applications
<johnny> your school is going to be training the next generation of hackers for real
<peanutb> they already did
<johnny> excuse me..
<johnny> crackers
<johnny> my bad
<peanutb> thats actually how i got the pseudo job
<peanutb> well
<peanutb> it was by association
<peanutb> but others figured out that there is a vnc server running on every laptop and cracked the password for it
<peanutb> it was hellish for a week or so
 * peanutb decides to reboot so the new image will take affect
<peanutb> its not regualr vnc its apple remote desktop but same difference
 * peanutb stops rambling
<peanutb> has
<peanutb> has anyone gotten x11vnc working?
<johnny> not in gutsy
<johnny> there's another way
<peanutb> how?
<johnny> the thin client manager thing is outmoded
<peanutb> ah
<johnny> from  my understanding
<johnny> italc is the new thing or something
<johnny> but i haven't read the details
<peanutb> mmm more time consumeing setup
<johnny> all i noticed was that it required a daemon
<johnny> so i ignored it for no
<johnny> now*
<peanutb> i cant seem to find helpful docs
<peanutb> its getting late
<peanutb> goodnight
<lns-eee> blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh
#edubuntu 2008-12-15
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> sbalneav: around?
<Ahmuck> nubae1: when u get a chance, could you give me a hand on the dhcpd.conf ?
<LaserJock> morning everybody
<LaserJock> ohhh lovely, encouraging bugmail this weekend :/
<LaserJock> sbalneav: when you have a minute I think we should chat about this Feisty LTSPfs bug that people got up-in-arms over
<morgs> LaserJock: hey
<LaserJock> hi morgs
<morgs> LaserJock: were you at UDS?
<LaserJock> nope, at home workin' unfortunately
<LaserJock> but I did spend some time working on UDS issues during UDS
<morgs> heh
<morgs> LaserJock: I could use help with bug 263173 for an SRU
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263173 in sugar-hulahop "Sugar Browse fails on startup" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263173
<morgs> Requires just rebuilds against a newer xulrunner
<LaserJock> morgs: right, saw some of that in my bugmail
<LaserJock> morgs: give me a little bit to get my grading situation in order and I'll get uploads ready
<morgs> LaserJock: it's not urgent (in that it has been waiting a while already). james_w has done most of our sponsoring to date, but with UDS it was hard to get hold of him.
<morgs> LaserJock: Sure, that would be great. Thanks!
<LaserJock> np
<LaserJock> hi bdoin
<bdoin> hi
<LaserJock> bdoin: how are things in gcompris land?
<bdoin> slowly, still working on the goocanvas port
<bdoin> just made a 8.5RC2 last friday for you to test if you wish
<LaserJock> bdoin: yeah, I might have to check that out if I get some time
<bdoin> if you want a preview: http://gcompris.net/incoming/new_watercycle.png
<bdoin> http://gcompris.net/incoming/new_menu2.png
<LaserJock> bdoin: looks very nice
<LaserJock> Lns: perhaps the ltspfs bug thing needs to go to edubuntu-devel
<LaserJock> it's kind of a too-little-too-late for that bug, but is useful overall discussion
<Lns> LaserJock: i agree.. i hate making more comments but it *is* useful for the future
<Lns> LaserJock: would edubuntu-devel really be the best place for ltspfs given edubuntu technically isn't LTSP anymore?
<LaserJock> yes, yes it is
<LaserJock> who else cares?
<LaserJock> we can't just drop LTSP out the door
<Lns> I thought edubuntu was technically just the addon stuff, not ltsp bits anymore
<LaserJock> ok, you need to seperate some things a bit
<LaserJock> as a community we're interested in anything to do with Education in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> obviously LTSP is a pretty darn big part of that
<LaserJock> so of course we care about LTSP
<LaserJock> however, we don't *own* LTSP
<LaserJock> but it's in our best interest to care about it, right?
<Lns> LaserJock: well of course
<LaserJock> also, while LTSPfs is the particular example
<LaserJock> the issue is a general problem
<Lns> LaserJock: right, but the general problem isn't with Edubuntu, but Ubuntu as a whole
<LaserJock> sure, but Edubuntu I think is particularly hit by this
<Lns> I agree
<LaserJock> so it wouldn't hurt for use to figure out how we can do better at not dropping the ball
<Lns> but will the right people see the discussion that need to make a decision on actually changing how things work on a bug fixing level?
<LaserJock> for one, that bug falls off our "radar" when it's marked "Fix Released"
<LaserJock> we need to make sure things don't fall off the radar
<LaserJock> well, I suppose that's a question
<Lns> Can anyone change the status like that? Or just the one who the bug was assigned to to fix?
<LaserJock> anybody can change most of the statuses
<Lns> that's bad
<Lns> imho
<LaserJock> I think you have to have bug-control privileges to go to Triaged, but I think everything else is open
<Lns> look at the security flaw in that alone...someone who hates ubuntu could go in and change statuses on all sorts of bugs
<LaserJock> sure, but that's not been a real issue
<LaserJock> we're normally looking to get as much help as possible, and hence make it as open as possible
<Lns> The structure of bug reporting needs to be revamped IMHO, not like I have the answers but that's just something I've seen over time that doesn't always get talked about
<Lns> I understand the needing help part 100%
<LaserJock> the problem with that bug seems like 1) user expectations need management 2) we need to keep things on the "radar" 3) we need somebody to sort of "drive" QA
<Lns> right..we need followups
<Lns> and there is, but obviously this one slipped through the cracks
<LaserJock> also, we need to be clear on what's going to fixed, where and when
<Lns> agreed
<Lns> I like the irc meetings idea, and maybe that can be something we do on a more frequent basis as a community to go over all of these things
<Lns> Almost like a weekly/bi-monthly status update on all open bugs
<LaserJock> now, I tried to look at all the bugs with stable release tasks and it doesn't look like we have any currently
<Lns> of course that's a TON of bugs i'd imagine
<LaserJock> so right now we're doing ok'ish that way
<Lns> ok
<LaserJock> if my searches were accurate
<LaserJock> I think they were
<LaserJock> we currently have ~250 open bugs
<LaserJock> and only a handful are assigned to anybody
<LaserJock> and quite a few are untriaged
<LaserJock> I think even less are forwarded upstream
<Lns> there's a big problem right there... we need bug maintainer(s) that can take time to do all of this on a scheduled basis
<Lns> people who "know" what bugs exist so they can assign as duplicates, triage, invalidate, etc
<Lns> and needs to be separated by project probably
<LaserJock> exactly
<Lns> I can help with that i'm sure, but some standard practices/schedules should be established
<LaserJock> which is why I think edubuntu-devel is a good place to discuss it
<Lns> LaserJock: just a thought, is there any way to send scheduled 'bug digest' e-mails to subscribers say, once a week or whatever?
<Lns> automated "these are open bugs" type things?
<LaserJock> Lns: hmm, so repeatedly giving out "this is the list of open bugs"?
<LaserJock> not just here's a new bug
<Lns> right
<Lns> kind of a reminder email
<Lns> maybe with a request for those who hadn't been commented on in X days
<LaserJock> we could script that fairly easy I think
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure how much we'd gain by it
<Lns> well, it'd help with people forgetting about certain bugs
<Lns> i dunno, it's more of a LP issue than anything else probably
<LaserJock> well, you can easily see what bugs your assigned to and subscribed to
<LaserJock> and we have a LP page that lists all the open bugs by project
<Lns> right
<LaserJock> we can write our own bug page if needed, I'm just not sure what people would find useful
<Lns> hmm...maybe some sorting mechanisms at the least, to see which ones haven't been updated/commented on
<LaserJock> bottom line it looks to me like bugs aren't getting assigned
<LaserJock> i.e. nobody wants to take them on
<LaserJock> so it's not so much a matter of people knowing what's on their list (although that's important too) as much as getting people to look at things in the first place
<Lns> can we look at other bug systems to see how they do it? Maybe Mozilla or other?
<Lns> right...we need a trigger of sorts to force people to review things i think..otherwise they're just browsing what they want to browse
<LaserJock> well, I'm ok with people just browsing
<LaserJock> we just need people
<Lns> so how do we get more people? ;)
<LaserJock> not sure exactly
<LaserJock> advertize, make it actually do stuff
#edubuntu 2008-12-16
<LaserJock> nubae: around?
<nubae> yep
<LaserJock> nubae: have a look at http://education.zdnet.com/?p=1995
<nubae> hmmm
<nubae> are u saying we should carry the wine apps in edubuntu too?
<LaserJock> nubae: I'm not saying anything :-)
<LaserJock> I just thought of you when I read that
<LaserJock> shows that people are thinking about it anyway
<nubae> lol :-) Well I think its a great way to migrate users permanently to linux...
<LaserJock> if Ubuntu puts it in by default then we don't have to do any work
<LaserJock> we get it for free
<nubae> we could list something on the website with a link to the edu wine apps
<nubae> yeah would be cool
<nubae> something like, You can run your old windows stuff on edubuntu too... I know teachers would be happy with something like tha
<LaserJock> nubae: I think perhaps getting people involved in testing Windows edu apps in wine would be then a worthwhile effort
<LaserJock> the wine app DB has quite a large list of Edu apps but I'm not sure how well tested they are
<nubae> yeah indeed
<LaserJock> but for instance, in my Chemistry department we have 1 lab where we use Logger Pro
<nubae> I've seen it often enough that a school cannot make the leap because of 1 or 2 pieces of software that they must run on windows...
<LaserJock> right now we use a pile of Dell laptops (kinda big and very very unreliable)
<LaserJock> if we could instead use netbooks with Ubuntu/Wine I think it'd be much better
<nubae> agreed... well the good thing about the netbooks is that Canonical seems to be showing interest to certify them
<nubae> the HP and Dells are now certified for Ubuntu Hardy
<nubae> an important step in wide adoption for schools
<nubae> hey u know what a good layout web app is for ubuntu.. I use bluefish for code, but need something to layout tables
<LaserJock> the important thing is many many schools is that they are locked in to certain programs
<Ahmuck> nubae: after doing everything in your fat client tutorial, the fat clients won't boot
<Ahmuck> interested in reviewing dhpcd.conf?
<nubae> Ahmuck: I looked at your dhcpd.conf file
<Ahmuck> was it wrong?
<nubae> please make sure its exactly like the sample
<nubae> yeah
<LaserJock> like in my labs the lab manuals are written for Logger Pro, having to change that all isn't something profs are going to want to do
<Ahmuck> ok, i'll try again
<nubae> before anything else though... just change the original dhcpd.conf
<nubae> and change the instances of i386 to fati386
<LaserJock> nubae: I don't know what would work well for table layout :(
<Ahmuck> k.  it'll be about 30 minutes b4 i can do that
<nubae> LaserJock: I guess I'll have to use wine+dreamweaver ;-)
<LaserJock> ugg
<nubae> I know
 * LaserJock is not a dreamweaver fan
<Ahmuck> i would test windows edu apps in ltsp
<LaserJock> but it's been years since I used it last so I don't know
<LaserJock> maybe it's better
 * nubae is not a windows fan either
<Ahmuck> without windows apps in ltsp, it doesn't work for our area.  our schools have some testing and some measuring programs they are required to use
<nubae> it layouts out visually, and the other choices are not even choices
<nubae> Ahmuck: yeah you're not the only one, I think listing which commonly used apps in schools work, would be of great value
<nubae> LaserJock: u know where we could get a list like that? is it the same across US schools?
<Ahmuck> nubae: kompozer?  or seamonkey ?
<nubae> I can do it for German and Spanish speaking countries, as I know more or less what they need that they are tied into
<nubae> oh yeah, I'll give kompozer a whirl
<LaserJock> nubae: each school district and university is likely to do their own thing
<nubae> gosh, no standards?
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> for universities, none
<nubae> well, our target is more schools, right?
<LaserJock> for school districts there might be some at the state and maybe a few at the fedral level but I doubt much
<LaserJock> nubae: our target is "Education"
<LaserJock> presently schools are definately more the focus
<nubae> well at least starting with those would be a way to counter the 'I can't migrate cause I need a chem app that works, and the ones we are allowed to use are windows apps'
<Ahmuck> is wine a security risk?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: apparently it's only a risk to itself
<LaserJock> that's to say, wine can get viruses within the environment, but that can't hurt the rest of the OS
<Ahmuck> more importantly, one of my issues is with wine from the admin side is install once, run many.  to taylor every user login to run wine is counterproductive.  doing so doesn't save one time over a standard windows installation
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: how do you mean?
<Ahmuck> i think i could get a list of windows apps from our local schools
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: do you mean it's hard to set up each user with wine?
<Ahmuck> no, difficult to taylor to the individual?
<Ahmuck> or set an icon on every desktop at once?
<nubae> what crossover does
<nubae> but wine-doors does that for you Ahmuck
<LaserJock> I wonder if sabayon would be useful
<nubae> it has the bottles set up for all the apps and u just hit install
<nubae> from a gui
<LaserJock> so you basically set up different Wine profiles
<nubae> yeah each app has its profile, but it just makes it system wide and really easy to install with preset profiles downloaded from some database
<nubae> its actually a very neat piece of software
<nubae> http://www.wine-doors.org/wordpress/
<Ahmuck> with wine in ltsp, could you configure app A for classroom 1 and app B for classrom 2?
<Ahmuck> i've seen winedoors
<nubae> Ahmuck: that would require sabayon/pessulus
<nubae> cause then u are editting the menus... or maybe gnome-menu-manager?
<LaserJock> I think sabayon, I don't think pessulus could do it
<nubae> I always use the 2 together
<nubae> one for profiles, the other for locking down
<LaserJock> but since wine is just a dir in ~/ I think you could use sabayon (if sabayon worked) to drop in Wine "profiles"
<LaserJock> nubae: I wonder if it's necessary to have pessulus if you have sabayon
<nubae> pessulus runs inside sabayon
<LaserJock> right, but do you have to have pessulus installed to use it?
<nubae> wine-doors says this: Allow users to manage their windows applications with profiles and bottles
<LaserJock> I haven't played with it much, but sabayon has a copy of pessulus' code in its source tree so I wonder
<nubae> I always install both, maybe not
<nubae> it would be so nice for someone to fix that up
<nubae> I think its so useful
<LaserJock> sabayon? or both?
<nubae> well depending, both if they are needed to lockdown
<nubae> but mostly sabayon I guess
<nubae> pessulus seems to work ok
<LaserJock> pessulus is smaller, does fewer things, and I think still maintained
<LaserJock> sabayon is essentially dead right now
<LaserJock> Red Hat pulled out and it just sort of died
<nubae> such a damn shame
<nubae> as there is no replacement
<Ahmuck> i'll take a second look at wine doors
<LaserJock> I think getting it going again is high on my "things that should be done" list
<Ahmuck> what woudl you call it sabulus ?
<nubae> what does it require? a python hacker?
<Ahmuck> or pesayon
<LaserJock> for me in Intrepid sabayon doesn't work at all, completely broken
<LaserJock> nubae: pretty much
<LaserJock> nubae: it's all python
<nubae> oh.. haven't tried in intrepid
<LaserJock> there's a fair amount of code and it's not an easy thing I don't think
<LaserJock> as there's quite a bit of Linux desktop architecture that you run into
<nubae> can imagine, diving into someone else's code is already something no one really wants to do
<LaserJock> I don't think it's quite as easy as "tar up ~/ into a profile and then untar at login"
<nubae> heh, if only it was shell code
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: thx for the heads up
<Ahmuck> about it being borked.  that was my next step
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: well, if you have some time you might give it a go
<LaserJock> I haven't tested much and I don't know if it's just me or not
<LaserJock> we have a bug report so I don't think it's *just* me
<LaserJock> but I think maybe it's a bit flaky
<nubae> the bug report, or the app?
<LaserJock> the app
<LaserJock> my problem was that I couldn't create new profiles
<LaserJock> perhaps it works fine with existing profiles
<Ahmuck> ah, i think that was my problem as well
<Ahmuck> it was crashing
<LaserJock> yeah
<nubae> yeah it randomly crashes
<Ahmuck> :(
<LaserJock> so I can't do a lot of testing because I can't create a profile to test with :(
<nubae> but I did use it successfully to create exam profiles for students
 * Ahmuck going to fix dhcpd.conf now
<LaserJock> I think it needs somebody to just really spend some time with it
<LaserJock> not even an uber-hacker I don't think
<LaserJock> but just trying to figure out why it keeps crashing
<LaserJock> if sabayon could just be stabilized I think we'd really be happy
<nubae> we need volunteers
<LaserJock> I *think* Red Hat had 2-4 developers working on sabayon
<LaserJock> now there's not really anything
<nubae> maybe something like a big message on the edubuntu.org page: Please volunteer now, we need YOUR help...
<LaserJock> there are a couple guys who are the "maintainers" but I checked the svn log
<LaserJock> and they haven't done *anything* but translations for ~ 9 months or so
<LaserJock> not even bug fixes
<Eghie> nubae: on what?
<LaserJock> so I think that's pretty dead
<LaserJock> Eghie: sabayon
<Nubae> hmmm, and now pidgin crashed
<Nubae> I missed the last couple lines...
<Eghie> Nubae: I asked on what you need volunteers
<Eghie> Sabayon Linux distro?
<LaserJock> Eghie: no, the Gnome profile editor
<LaserJock> I'm guessing Edubuntu wouldn't be looking for Sabayon Linux devs ;-)
<Nubae> yeah sabayon is a great piece of soft that manages profiles and desktop settings
<Ahmuck> it's python?
<Nubae> yes
<LaserJock> maybe Edubuntu needs to hold some Python courses
<LaserJock> we have a couple python projects that need work
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: is Alice python ?
<Ahmuck> some python course material would be nice.  i'd teach it
<LaserJock> sabayon, willow-ng, and a new dynamic-menu editor all need work
<Nubae> set students on it
<Nubae> that would be a way
<alkisg> I've manage to pack an educational windows application of mine into a .deb, which installs from my apt repository for all users (into /opt/) and runs through wine. It even shows on the "education" gnome menu. It would be great if other win-edu apps could be packaged like this...
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: I think Alice is Java
<LaserJock> alkisg: that's very very tricky though
<alkisg> LaserJock: yes, but it's really really easy for administrators! :)
<Nubae> alkisg: volunteering?
<Ahmuck> alkisg: documentation?
<alkisg> Nubae: you got any apps that can be packaged into .debs? (licensing...)
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: but necessary for high school typing teacher administrators
<LaserJock> well, there's different issues
<alkisg> Ahmuck: not really, only some notes in Greek, but if anyone's interested, I may help him
<LaserJock> I don't think we could ever *ship* Windows apps for wine
<Eghie> but you could make a good guide to package it though
<Nubae> right but we can carry scripts that download and install them
<LaserJock> I don't think we could really even include them in our archive
<Nubae> no guide... scripting
<Eghie> scripting is indeed better
<LaserJock> Nubae: I'm not sure we want to script it though
<Nubae> like the torrent sites... heh
<Ahmuck-Jr> Nubae: was the dhcpd problem because i did not have a thin client section?
<alkisg> LaserJock: I think .deb files that extract / copy files and generate registry entries (in wine) could be made. Of course the users would have to have the original application CD / zip / whatever.
<Nubae> the script is fine, but actually doing it may not be :P
<Nubae> alkisg: well we can set it to do it with demos
<alkisg> In repositories, so that they also get updates! :)
<Nubae> then its their problem to do the rest
<LaserJock> well, but maintaining a script like that is *not* a trivial task
<Nubae> hmm, why not... scripting is relatively simple
<alkisg> No, not at all, registry hacking may be needed
<LaserJock> because any little thing that goes wrong is of course our problem
<LaserJock> we get hammered quite frequently from having Flash
<alkisg> (I'm talking about a single installation for all users, not each user in their own ~/.wine...)
<Nubae> Ahmuck-Jr: I'm not sure, dont have the dhcd.conf in front of me anymore
<LaserJock> I think the best first step would be to have some good documentation for creating your own .deb
<Nubae> alkisg: but thats what wine-doors already does
<alkisg> Nubae: never heard of it, looking...
<Nubae> wine-doors.org
<Nubae> LaserJock: edubuntu gets hammered or LTSP
<Nubae> I thought it was ok on single terminals
<alkisg> Wow!!! Good one!
<Ahmuck-Jr> actually there is a good program that will create debs for you
<LaserJock> Nubae: yeah, but LTSP, etc. we can actually patch, work on, etst, etc.
<LaserJock> *test
<LaserJock> just creating a .deb is not the problem
<Nubae> heh, there are lots of those
<LaserJock> creating a .deb that does the right thing is
<Nubae> policies...
<LaserJock> well, even setting aside Debian Policy
<LaserJock> so say you have this .deb, how are you going to get it to install the app?
<Nubae> I once thought about using Smart for packaging, its a nice standardised pacakage manager
<LaserJock> what messing around do you have to do to get that app all set up even after you've installed it?
<Nubae> I've just realised, what alkisg mentioned is in fact wine-doors, except wine-doors already has all the apps in it ready to download and install
<Nubae> so it would just require installing that one program
 * alkisg is looking at wine-doors and is quite impressed...
<alkisg> (but mine used synaptic! :P)
<Nubae> yeak its like we'd need something like wine-doors educational
<LaserJock> perhaps the Ubuntu Wine maintainer could give some recommendation for wine-doors
<Nubae> that would kinda cool, we could speak to the e
<Nubae> wine-doors people
<LaserJock> I'm hesitant about such apps in general, but perhaps this one is decent
<Nubae> if it just lists the edu apps, it would be really helpful
<Nubae> no need to maintain anything extra... like heroin for the windows junkies...
<Nubae> a necessary evil
<LaserJock> yeah, but we should do a pretty good review of it before recommending it to users
<Nubae> :-)
<Nubae> I've used it quite a bit... perhaps alkisg can try using it and vouch if it works good for an edu environment
<LaserJock> most of these "convenince" apps are more harm than good
<Nubae> edubuntu is a convenience app too ;-)
<alkisg> Nubae, I surely will, teachers here do need such an app
<Nubae> the cd that is
<LaserJock> no, it's not
<LaserJock> it's doing standard things with standard processes, policies, and tools :-)
<Nubae> ok, then wine itself is a convenience app
<LaserJock> it is, and is rife with problems and is only now being considered for Main
<Nubae> a necessary evil
<LaserJock> it shouldn't be evil
<Nubae> if we want more people using edubuntu, I think its very helpful...
<Nubae> how can it be non-evil with what it does?
<LaserJock> yes, the *idea* is helpful
<alkisg> Nubae, Laserjock: but does the installation done by wine-doors happen for all linux users, or only for the one doing the installation?
<LaserJock> Windows apps aren't evil
<Ahmuck> it would be nice if it one could plug the windows install app in, set the license number and have winddoors install it
<Nubae> windows is evil, closed source is evil
<LaserJock> some of them are the greatest apps I've ever used
<LaserJock> it's not evil
<Ahmuck> iirc, wine doors now asks if you have a valid copy of windows
<LaserJock> it's just not as good as open source
<LaserJock> IMO
<Ahmuck> doesn't it?
<Nubae> I guess I'm more fundementalist
<Ahmuck> the last install i tried did
<LaserJock> Nubae: probably :-)
<Nubae> I think closed source serves no good purpose in schools
<LaserJock> I have no real problem using closed source apps
<LaserJock> I think it's *better* if they open up their processes, I think it benefits everybody
<Nubae> and windows as an OS even less so
<Ahmuck> neither do i.  the only thing that's close to ArtRage is Gogh, but i don't think gogh is bieng maintianed anymore
<LaserJock> but I don't think they are evil for not doing so
<LaserJock> they aren't morally wrong for not open-sourcing their software
<Ahmuck> and the defacto standard in publishing right now in press  shops in indesign
<LaserJock> MS is IMO, morally wrong for doing other things
<Nubae> hmmm, microsoft is unequivocally evil
<Ahmuck> i can't even get people to look at scribus
<LaserJock> but just being closed-source isn't evil, IMO
<LaserJock> it can make some very good sense at times
<LaserJock> hence why we end up with things like Wine
<Nubae> I don't think so... anything that can be argued for closed source can be argued against far better with open source
<LaserJock> there are some *very* good Windows apps out there that we can't compete with presently
<Nubae> ok, I won't say necessary evil again, cause it will make us go round in circles
<Ahmuck> only if there are people willing to write it for os
<Nubae> which apps?
<Ahmuck> i find a mix works great for me
<LaserJock> Nubae: Photoshop, InDesign, lots of chemistry software I use
<Nubae> pffttt... Gimp
<LaserJock> Nubae: and you can say "necessary evil" if you want, I don't mind ;-)
<Nubae> Scribus
<LaserJock> pfft
<Nubae> both better than the closed source
<LaserJock> Scribus is *not* Indesign
<Nubae> but u need to learn them of course
<LaserJock> not even close
<Nubae> fine, quanta then
<LaserJock> Scribus is very buggy
<Nubae> ok, buggy is part of open source
<LaserJock> I don't know that I'd say that exactly
<LaserJock> but there are some very real downsides to open source
<LaserJock> it's not all just beautiful without any issues, that's my point
<Nubae> bugs are prevalent everywhere, but part of the ongoing process in open source, the difference is users can find them themselves and notify people
<LaserJock> yep
<Nubae> I wonder what would happen if u wrote to some windows closed source app guy and said, this crashed like that and that
<LaserJock> but it's fairly hard to get a good open-source business model
<LaserJock> so you end up with a lot of volunteers
<Nubae> well, some have done it
<LaserJock> sure
<Nubae> its just a new field is all I think
<LaserJock> but I say for *most* cases it's easier to get a "1.0" release in closed-source
<Nubae> the business model will stabalise and mature at some point
<Nubae> yes, true
<LaserJock> it's easier to manage, and in some ways less expensive to go closed-source
<Nubae> but thats what RHEL and its kin are for
<Ahmuck> that's my problem.  scribus is not indesign
<Ahmuck> that's been a stumbling block for me
<LaserJock> in places where you can get large numbers of volunteers I think open-source works very well
<LaserJock> Firefox, OO.o, etc.
<Nubae> have u tried quanta plus? its like inkscape and scribus in one
<LaserJock> but look at Education
<Nubae> yeah, moodle
<Nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> we have very few quality educational programs
<Nubae> Moodle is THE standard in schools now across the world btw... has a huge percentage of the market
<LaserJock> it's quite hard to get teachers to program or programmers to get interested in Educational apps
<LaserJock> yeah, Moodle is a good example of open-source making it
<Nubae> I think its a problem with standards
<Nubae> if schools all decide to use the same soft, it will be different
<LaserJock> I don't want all schools deciding the same software though :-)
<LaserJock> I want individual schools to decide what works for them, it may be very different
<LaserJock> but yeah, standardization would make it easier
<Nubae> sure... but a choice of jsut 2 or 3 programs per field, rather than 100
<LaserJock> yeah, but that's what makes open-source hard
<LaserJock> I have a ton of chemistry software in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> but they're mostly half-finshed junky apps
<LaserJock> very few actually make it in terms of being a viable alternative to Windows apps
<LaserJock> and there's really not a very good business model for open-source chemistry apps
<Ahmuck> does edubuntu have a list of alterantive software.  for indesign there is this alternative, etc
<LaserJock> it's primarily university students who do it, because they have time to give for free
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: not really, there was a plan to do one but it never really happened
<LaserJock> if we get our app list going we can do that
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: ur sentiments echo mine.  i get osctrised for saying so though
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: from where for saying so?
<Nubae> yeah apps list should be up soon, we can put in the alternatives too, I'll add that
<Ahmuck-Jr> LaserJock: everywhere
<LaserJock> Ahmuck-Jr: that's a shame
<LaserJock> I think one of the worst things we can do for open-source is to proclaim that it's a panacea or has no problems/cons/downsides
<Nubae> this be true, even though that is what it is... nothing short of a miracle
 * Nubae puts on fundementalist beard again
<LaserJock> heh
 * LaserJock sends Nubae all the Launchpad bugmail
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> it seems like open-source works very well if 1) there are lots and lots of people interested in the area and can contribute or 2) it's so esoteric that it's unlikely that a closed-source app would survive
<Nubae> right now, I agree, but things are formalising more and more
<Nubae> Linux itself is destined to become mainstream, I'm certain of that
<LaserJock> in the middle ground where one can make a decent time of it via closed-source but there's not a lot of people who can/do care is where open-source really struggles
<LaserJock> it may, I hope it does
<Nubae> too many companies have jumped on board for it to regress
<LaserJock> the problem is, IMO, that in order to go mainstream Linux has to do what it's not very good at
<LaserJock> I think it would just be relegated to geekdom :-)
<Nubae> but its not very good at those things because it isn't mainstream
<LaserJock> and special-use applications like mobile phones, etc.
<LaserJock> Nubae: exactly, chicken and egg problem
<Nubae> well, the egg is hatching...
<LaserJock> we'll see
<LaserJock> I hope so
<Nubae> theres an article in the latest wired... called saving Microsoft
<Nubae> its a sign of the times :-)
<LaserJock> note that MS != closed-source
<Nubae> hmmm... for the most part it is
<LaserJock> it's encouraging to see MS having to fight for it, perhaps they'll make better products
<Nubae> and quite vocal about it too
<LaserJock> look at OS X though
<Nubae> right, that is a positive thing
<LaserJock> it's got a mix of open and closed source
<Nubae> yeah but its not faring much better than  linux at the moment, about the same speed of uptake
<LaserJock> just because it's *nix based doesn't mean it's an open-source OS
<Nubae> depends on what we call the OS I suppose
<LaserJock> I think Linux will largely mainstream *because* of closed source software, not because of open-source
<LaserJock> *go mainstream
<Nubae> oh I hope not...
<Nubae> but if it brings it mainstream, then bring it on :-)
<Ahmuck> the economy may push more oss into the mainstream
<Ahmuck> one for price, and two because there are going to be a lot of x developers
<LaserJock> it's things like Adobe writing Linux version, Game publishers making Linux versions that will make linux go mainstream I think
<LaserJock> not Linux convincing Adobe and Game publishers to go open source
<Nubae> if we look at hollywood as a Model
<Nubae> a model because 98% of everything there is linux based
<Nubae> we see that indeed 80% of that software is closed
<LaserJock> the problem that I see keeping Linux from mainstream is the like 10% of the time people aren't using a web browser/word processor
<LaserJock> like I have a family member who owns a business
<LaserJock> and she'd love to use Linux, but she needs good small business software
<LaserJock> which currently doesn't exist, so she won't move away from MS
<LaserJock> my father has a ballistics program he uses, that's pretty much what's keeping him back
<LaserJock> bottom line, I'm still the only person I know that uses Linux for day-to-day usage
<Nubae> really, I managed both my folks to switch
<LaserJock> perhaps eventually Wine will make it better
<LaserJock> so I don't think it's evil ;-)
<Nubae> mom runs a restaurant, and Dad is a doctor... so perhaps they dont need complex stuff
<Nubae> but both are happily surfing and typing away in ubuntu
<LaserJock> I'm not a very good Linux evangelist it seems :-)
<LaserJock> I always end the conversation with "yeah, you're probably better off sticking with Windows"
<Nubae> depends on the usage
<Nubae> for a school, no way
<LaserJock> although my brother was interested in maying getting a Dell Mini 9 with Ubuntu
<LaserJock> for my school we're still on Windows
<LaserJock> s/school/department/
<Nubae> ltsp alone sells it
<LaserJock> at my uni the Linux labs are growing smaller
<LaserJock> its somewhat discouraging
<Nubae> yeah
<LaserJock> we haven't been able to use ltsp in my department
<LaserJock> we'd need to have local apps
<Nubae> ltsp does that now
<LaserJock> only fairly recently
<Nubae> yep
<LaserJock> but yeah, I'm hoping that'll maybe get us
<Nubae> fatclient does it too
<LaserJock> we have ~30 machines
<LaserJock> 15 Windows, 15 Xubuntu
<Nubae> its so wonderful for maintaining
<Nubae> so easy...
<Nubae> ltsp that is
<LaserJock> we've had a whole semester of 15 unusable Linux machines and 15 sort of working Windows machines
<LaserJock> hopefully we can get the Linux machines working soon or we might lose them
<Nubae> that happened to me before we had LTSP too
<Nubae> its just impossible maintenance overhead
<LaserJock> it's hard to justify 1/2 lab not working
<Nubae> yeah hardware related likely, right?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> can't authenticate
<LaserJock> so nobody can log in
<Nubae> AD?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Nubae> seems like a solvable problem
<LaserJock> the problem seemed to be that our domain name is different than the AD domain name
<LaserJock> so it was looking at the wrong names or something and won't connect
<LaserJock> but once we figure it out we have to get 15 machines set up
<Nubae> or use ltsp :-)
<LaserJock> we don't have a server for ltsp
<Nubae> or even drbl for that matter
<LaserJock> we'd need to find a server I think
<LaserJock> I seriously doubt we could even run a couple clients off the machines we have
<LaserJock> if we could scrounge one up somewhere I'd like to give LTSP a try
<LaserJock> but considering we can't even authenticate right now I think we've got bigger issues :-)
<Nubae> well authentication with ltsp is done on 1 machine and not 15
<LaserJock> we'd probably also have to fight with the Uni IT people
<LaserJock> we're not allowed to have subnets
<alkisg> LaserJock: you don't have to use a different subnet for ltsp...
<LaserJock> do I need to use DHCP?
<LaserJock> can i set up a static LTSP server?
<alkisg> LaserJock, not necessarily, but you may also have a "stealthy" dhcp server
<alkisg> one which only gives the IPs you want to only the machines you want
<LaserJock> right now the machines all have  static IPs
<alkisg> Well, perfect, you may use the same IPs
<LaserJock> and there *may* be another DHCP server around
<alkisg> You may setup the dhcp server to only give specific IPs to clients with specific macs
<LaserJock> so I was thinking we'd have to put them on some sort of subnet
<alkisg> So it won't matter if there are other dhcp servers around
<alkisg> And gpxe has a "priority" option for the clients to select your server. I've done it, it works fine.
<LaserJock> hmm
<alkisg> It also works with PXE, if the bios/nic support boot from lan.
<LaserJock> I think  they all PXE boot
<alkisg> And I guess there aren't any dhcp servers that offer a boot filename around, are there?
<LaserJock> have no idea
<alkisg> You may try, just select "boot from network" from any pc
<alkisg> If it boots, then you have a problem! :) If it doesn't, everything's OK for you to use ltsp.
<LaserJock> interesting
<LaserJock> I might try that
<alkisg> If you decide to use ltsp, all you have to do is declare static IPs (based on MACs) in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf, and put a dhcp option to not give IPs to windows clients. And put "IPAPPEND 3" in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default.
<LaserJock> now I just need to find a server :-)
<alkisg> Yeap, that's the difficult one...
<LaserJock> especially when your budget is exactly $0 USD
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: what type of small business software?
<Ahmuck> i was able to swtich by using virtualbox and windows xp pro
<Ahmuck> but i'm still on windows.  for shipping, etc.
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: what school do you attend ?!
<Ahmuck> used clonezilla?
<Ahmuck> one maintenance, clone en masse
<Ahmuck> ah, i saw an AD ltsp solution while searching google for other problems
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: small business> Quicken type stuff I think, accounting
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: school > University of Nevada, Reno
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: and no, I've not used clonezilla or anything like it. I'm just a grad student who tries to help here and there
<Ahmuck> there are some projects that do come close.  postbooks and/or ledgersmb
<Ahmuck> postbooks is more quickbooks like where ledgersmb is more accounting like
<Ahmuck> with clonzilla you update one machine and then clone them all in under 30 min
 * Ahmuck needs to become a grad student again :)
<LaserJock> ugg, I don't :-)
<LaserJock> 6 years is enough
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15470 - Nubae have a peek?
<Ahmuck-Jr> i copied it from your website exactly.  i have not substituted the mac address yet, but doing that now
<Ahmuck-Jr> ### make sure you're /etc/hosts contains all the hostnames of the clients - this comment.  is there a way to assign hostnames to a pxe client?
<Ahmuck-Jr> how do i re-start dhcpd.conf for ltsp?  is it any different than restarting dhpcd.conf normally?
<Ahmuck-Jr> sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart - i assume
<Ahmuck-Jr> bleh, that did not work.  i don't know why
<Ahmuck-Jr> i'm restarting the server
<Ahmuck> Nubae: ever use indesign?
<Ahmuck-Jr> upon reboot, my thin clients that are suppposed to be fat now are dead to the world :(
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: maybe they got too overweight and died of a heart attack or something
<LaserJock> darn trans fats
<Ahmuck> he  he
 * Ahmuck goes to scrutinize Nubae dhcp.conf file
<alkisg> I want to package a collection of scripts like "generate 100 users" or "it's a new school year, change all the students' class" into a .deb and upload it to my PPA in launchpad, so that it can be more easily installed and updated.
<alkisg> But it'll be the first time I use PPA, so... does anyone know of any package in launchpad that contains only scripts, so that I can peek at its configuration files?
<alkisg> (something like the hello-debhelper package, but for scripts)
<Nubae> Ahmuck: back
<Nubae> restart dhcpd like sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
<Ahmuck> k, restarting the computer should do it right?
<Nubae> yeah but no need, thats pretty brutal just to restart dhcp
<Nubae> looking at the conf, at first glance it looks ok, except u are missing the mac addresses of the thin clients u wish to boot
<Nubae> hardware ethernet 00:00:00:00:00; should be in hex-decimal format and usually found on the card
<Nubae> or else when pxe starts up, show it there
<Nubae> u can put a # in front of get-lease-hostnames if u haven't populated your /etc/hosts file
<Ahmuck> do i need a thin client section?
<Ahmuck> i put 00:00:00:00:00:00 as place holder.  i have the mac address in there in the real file
<Ahmuck> how would one populate the /etc/hosts file?
<Nubae> ok, well in /etc/hosts, put in the ip of the client followed by its name, for example:
<Nubae> 192.168.0.254   myserver myserver.lan
<Nubae> and so on...
<Nubae> if u have no thin clients, then no...
<Nubae> what I would do then is forget the dhcpd.conf that I have and use the default one that comes with ubuntu
<Nubae> and just change the i386 in there to fati386
<Ahmuck-Jr> bleh, it died as well
<Nubae> died?
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15477
<Ahmuck-Jr> well just for a sec i get what appears to be gateway, etc. and then a blinking cursor and that's it
<Nubae> u're doing intrepid right?
<Ahmuck-Jr> a fat client doesn't need to have ubuntu installed on it does it?
<Ahmuck-Jr> Nubae: yes
<Nubae> no, no need for a local disk
<Nubae> ok, and your server's ip is?
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15478
<Nubae> can u check what images are in /opt/ltsp/images
<Ahmuck-Jr> i386img
<Nubae> ok, theres no fati386 image there
<Ahmuck-Jr> er. i386.img
<Ahmuck-Jr> nope
<Ahmuck-Jr> i followed your instructions to the letter though
<Nubae> ok, then we need to build it, do Â sudoÂ ltsp-update-imageÂ -aÂ fati386Â -bÂ /opt/ltsp
<Nubae> it may be a line in the end of my script didn't build the image in the end... this is minor though, should be pretty fast...
<Ahmuck-Jr>  /opt/ltsp/images?
<Nubae> the line I wrote above will create the image in /opt/ltsp/images
<Nubae> u'll then see fati386.img
<Nubae> in terms of your ifconfig, the ethernet address of eth1 is 192.168.0.254
<Nubae> so change that in your dhcpd.conf from 0.1
<Ahmuck-Jr> hai
<Ahmuck-Jr> so it's my dhcpd.conf that is the problem?
<Nubae> part of it
<Nubae> also that the image doesnt exist
<Nubae> do Â sudoÂ ltsp-update-imageÂ -aÂ fati386Â -bÂ /opt/ltsp
<Ahmuck-Jr> i assume it was not an error on my part by not following instructions for the image?
<Ahmuck-Jr> it's running now
<Nubae> no, thats a change I did recently, and forgot to upload the new script... but its pretty harmless... just means u need to build image
<Nubae> updated now, so the script on the site is now correct
<Ahmuck-Jr> were u able to fix the bottom portion where it quit?
<Nubae> yeah, its just 3 lines in the end
<Nubae> ok, so if image is built, and ip is correct, and restart dhcp3-server, it should work
<Ahmuck-Jr> i've got to let this build.  i'll be back later, i need to attend to something
#edubuntu 2008-12-17
<Ahmuck-Jr> Nubae: PCE-T01: File not found
<Ahmuck-Jr> PXE-E3B: TFTP Error - File not found
<dmhardison> Nubae, I have been reading your tutorial, it is very good by the way, but I wanted to ask do the applications load over the network via nfs after bootup, or are they included as a part of the intial bootup of the operating system.
<dmhardison> This is unfortunate. I cannot seem to figure out why the system is booting and then falling into initramfs.  Its telling me connection is refused for some reason for the nbi.img, along with some other errors afterwards.
<Ahmuck-Jr> fresh install ?
<dmhardison> I have tried that.
<dmhardison> I remade my ltsp client directory.
<dmhardison> I had to create a symbolic link for some reason from fati386 to i386 because I found out that client was requesting the wrong directory for some reason.
<dmhardison> Its written correctly in my dhcpd.conf file.
<Ahmuck-Jr> hrm, i wonder if that is my problem
<Ahmuck-Jr> where did you create the sym link to/from
<Ahmuck-Jr> nn
<LaserJock> hi RichEd
<RichEd> hi there ...
<RichEd> just popped in - couldn't sleep - back off to bed in a few min
<RichEd> we need to catch up this week ... is there a meeting on for today ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: not that I know of
<LaserJock> RichEd: we should probably schedule one
<Nubae> greets RichEd
 * RichEd was
<RichEd> oops :p
 * RichEd waves to nixternal 
<RichEd> damn ... let me try that again
 * RichEd waves to Nubae 
<Ahmuck> good morning Nubae
<Ahmuck> well, still no fat client :(
<Ahmuck> did yo notice someone was else was chatting about it last evening?
<nixternal> what's up RichEd!!
<Nubae> yeah, supporting it is a full time job! ;-)
<Nubae> so whats the issue now Ahmuck?
<RichEd> nixternal: long day and fuzzy disposable contact lenses well past their "see clearly" date ... 'twas an attempt to return Nubae's greeting ... wave back or ignore me :) your choice
<nixternal> haha
 * nixternal waves back to RichEd and tosses him 2 beers, one to use as an opener, and the other to drink!
<RichEd> schweet my bra ... the local reply in the sort of place where you open beers as demonstrated at UDS
<Nubae> RichEd: yesterday talked with Laserjock a bit about the implication of wine going into main
<Nubae> for education its quite important to support various win apps
<Nubae> usually schools don't make the migration to Ubuntu because one or 2 apps are only available in win
<RichEd> i thought that wine was commercial ... last time I dug around ... has that changed or is there a loophole ?
<Nubae> and they must use them because of whatever archaic law
<Nubae> you're thinking of crossover
<Nubae> wine is the free totally open source non commercial version
<Nubae> made by the same guys (codeweavers)
<RichEd> Nubae: I well appreciate the argument and value ... i hear internet cafe owners who want to move to Ubuntu but need to be able to offer their customers windows based gaming
<Nubae> yeah there was a conversation on MOTU
<Nubae> about the positivity of the move
<Nubae> so anyway, me and Laserjock thought about listing which edu apps (windows) will run on wine
<Nubae> on the website... what do u think?
<Nubae> there was some discussion about including something that would install the apps too, by downloading from the vendor site, but that might have implications
<RichEd> ubuntu _ ltsp = good low maintenance free icafe solution ... one image, one config, easy swop out on h/w failure
<RichEd> Nubae: sounds good :)
<Nubae> yeah I've installed it in an icafe.. only problem is lack of really good management software for the terminals (timers), but italc sort of does the job
<RichEd> that site i showed you at UDS ... i think we should crib the layout & style for any app list pages on edubuntu.org
 * RichEd digs in his log for the link
<Nubae> ah good, if u have a style in mind, that would be helpful, I've got a layout now, but its very simplistic, apps listed in 2 columns, with title, desc, category, icon, rating
<RichEd> this one: http://appnr.com/
<Nubae> ah yeah I remember
<Nubae> u think I should include the games from the spreadsheet as well?
<RichEd> Nubae: I reckon so ... but please make sure we get someone to review and run them to check which are "up to standard"
<RichEd> I downloaded & installed some for my kids the other day, and some are definately version 0.x and quite frustrating
<RichEd> once installed, you can see at a glance (first look, 2 mins) if they are worthwhile ... bad windows handling, no resize, no fullscreen etc.
<RichEd> Sort by Name  | Popularity <- this is a nice option on that site I posted
<RichEd> We could do: Sort by Subject | Age / School Level as well
<RichEd> So if you could make the page read from a database ... the display or sort flexibility would be nice :)
<Nubae> yeah thats why rating or even release stage would be good
<Nubae> I can do that no problem, but then we need access to the server
<Nubae> well, maybe not...
<Nubae> I guess can host the database elsewhere
<Nubae> maybe a review then?
<RichEd> If we motivate, I am sure we can get a database on the server, or access to one on an ubuntu.com machine
<RichEd> a review would be good ... one of the aims was to allow teachers to propose new FOSS they had been using, along with a short review
<Nubae> yep, great, so we expand that to include win edu apps
<Nubae> that will get more involvement I think
<Ahmuck> i'd be happy to test
<Nubae> make it clear not supported, but info should be available, especially when it community based
<Ahmuck> if it can break, i can break it
<RichEd> then if other people found the application useful or gave it a good rating, then we would concentrate on those for main / universe effort
<Nubae> yeah good idea
<Nubae> love it
<RichEd> Ahmuck: carefuk there buddy "if it can break, i can break it" is Trademarked to one George Dubya
<RichEd> oops * careful not ahen carefu!
<Ahmuck> inlcude windows games ?
<Ahmuck> doesn't wine apps do that?
<Ahmuck> app database?
<Nubae> no no, talking about linux games
<Ahmuck> ah
<Ahmuck> there are some very neat games that are windows going to linux but not quite there yet
<Nubae> this is listing all the edu apps and games for linux we are talking about, but listing edu apps for windows is cool too
<Nubae> not sure about games, that would be far too big I fear
<Ahmuck> and some very neat childrens apps, that are windows with no intention of going to linux.  dinnerdash is one of those, game/managment sim
<Nubae> I guess it wouldn't hurt to list childrens games that work...
<Ahmuck> anywho, back to the fat client with cholestoral :)
<Ahmuck> children learn through games, music, etc.
<Nubae> tell me
<Ahmuck-Jr> k ...
<Ahmuck-Jr> PXE-T01: File not found
<Ahmuck-Jr> PXE-E3B: TFTP Error - File not found
<Ahmuck-Jr>  (don't think of it as support, think of it as refining the tutorial) :)
<Nubae> ok, which image is it trying to load
<Nubae> check the log files, should be syslog
<Ahmuck-Jr> someone last evening said they had to symlink the image to get it to work. said they checked the logs and found out it was trying to load the wrong image
<Nubae> nah, that was totally wrong
<Nubae> no symlinking please
<RichEd> Nubae: seen this ? quite a useful document
<RichEd> http://www.osv.org.au/index.cgi?tid=155
<RichEd> <quote>
<RichEd>  	Catalog of Free and Open Source Software for Education  	
<RichEd> 	OSV has prepared the following report for the primary and secondary education sector. Within it, we have researched and provided a synopsis on a range of software which we believe will be beneficial to educators and students. We have also included a large list of other open source applications.
<RichEd> Download Catalog of Free and Open Source Software for Education report (PDF, 11MB)
<RichEd> 	
<Nubae> he used the i386 image instead of the newly created fati386
<Nubae> ah wait, Ahmuck-Jr, edit the /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/fati386/pxelinux.cfg/default
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15508
<Ahmuck-Jr> there is no /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/fati386/pxelinux.cfg directory
<Nubae> there's the problem then...
<Nubae> u did ltsp-update-image yesterday?
<Ahmuck-Jr> it completed, yes
<nubae> damn pidgin
<Ahmuck> he he, konversation rocks :)
<nubae> does this exist for you? /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/fati386
<nubae> RichEd: that looks pretty cool
<nubae> I'll try ripping some of it off, or perhaps asking for permission would be better...
<nubae> oh never mind its creative commons
<Ahmuck> k, let me go look
<Ahmuck-Jr> yes
<RichEd> nubae: use it., and let them know how please you/we are ... and invite them to review and use our own list
<RichEd> quid pro quo
<nubae> cool
<Ahmuck-Jr> brb
<Ahmuck-Jr> state of kansas is short of funding to complete the school year
<Ahmuck-Jr> having wine on edubuntu may provide an opening for using linux in classroom
<Ahmuck-Jr> a neat little program is this one - http://ichi2.net/anki/
<Ahmuck-Jr> it's cross platform
<LaserJock> RichEd: around?
 * Ahmuck thinks i scared Nubae away :(
<LaserJock> uh oh
 * LaserJock declares Ahmuck must replace nubae
<Ahmuck> Noooo.  i'm a nubee
<Ahmuck> newbie ?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: we were all newbies once :-)
<LaserJock> morgs: around?
<morgs> LaserJock: hey
<Ahmuck> speaking of wine and edubuntu there needs to be a way to sepearte profiles
<Ahmuck> for individual testing programs and such
<LaserJock> morgs: I'm really sorry, that whole "I just need to finish some grading stuff" thing ended up taking 2 whole days :(
<LaserJock> morgs: do you still need uploads?
<morgs> LaserJock: yeah :)
<highvoltage> howdy morgs
<morgs> highvoltage!
<LaserJock> morgs: can you give me the bug # again?
<morgs> LaserJock: bug 263173
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263173 in sugar-hulahop "Sugar Browse fails on startup" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263173
<morgs> LaserJock: it's a no-change rebuild
<morgs> LaserJock: In hardy the source package is hulahop, in intrepid it's sugar-hulahop
<morgs> (due to now syncing from debian)
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> let me fix the release targeting real quick here, it gives me a headache :-0
<morgs> thanks!
<LaserJock> ahh crap
<LaserJock> stupid LP
<LaserJock> this is gonna get ugly
<highvoltage> LaserJock: you realise that morgs was once an LP developer? :)
<morgs> highvoltage: no worries, I think LP is a bit ugly in this place...
<LaserJock> morgs: oh really? I didn't know you were a LP dev
<LaserJock> I knew you were involved with Canonical at some point
<highvoltage> LaserJock: dude, he even worked for thawte back in the day
<morgs> LaserJock: it was a while ago, before anybody knew about LP :)
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> morgs: what's the status of this bug in Jaunty?
<morgs> LaserJock: it needs to be uploaded in Jaunty too, but that's a lower priority
<LaserJock> weird, hulahop gives weird rmadison results
<LaserJock>    hulahop | 0.4-1ubuntu3 | hardy/universe | source, amd64, i386
<LaserJock>    hulahop | 0.4.6-0ubuntu2 | intrepid/universe | all
<LaserJock>    hulahop | 0.4.7~dfsg-1ubuntu1 | jaunty/universe | all
<LaserJock> but I checked in LP and it's not in intrepid or jaunty
<morgs> LaserJock: there's a transition package in intrepid/jaunty built from sugar-hulahop
<morgs> LaserJock: In hardy, the source package is hulahop and the binary package is hulahop. In intrepid and jaunty, the source package is sugar-hulahop, generating binary packages of hulahop (transition) and python-hulahop.
<LaserJock> ah, right
<morgs> I was so tempted to just *not* sync from debian, because we had a lot of problems with the debian packager, but I think we're over that now - in theory I have commit access to the git repo for the debian packaging
<LaserJock> good
<LaserJock> morgs: so if you try to start the browser and it just sits there pulsating does that mean it failed?
<morgs> LaserJock: yeah
<LaserJock> morgs: ok
<morgs> LaserJock: you can look in ~/.sugar/default/logs for logs
<LaserJock> morgs: btw, this is first time I've ever seen/used Sugar, lots of fun
<morgs> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Ubuntu has some info on running with debug logs enabled
<morgs> LaserJock: :)
<morgs> running "SUGAR_LOGGER_LEVEL=debug PRESENCESERVICE_DEBUG=1 sugar-emulator" will turn debug logs on
<morgs> the expected output right now is something about libxul not found
<LaserJock> I got this:
<LaserJock> ImportError: libpyxpcom.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<LaserJock> not sure if that's how it would manifest not being able to find libxul or not
<morgs> I must just downgrade quickly, I fixed this in the PPA
<nubae> greets LaserJock
<nubae> and morgs
<morgs> hi nubae
<nubae> http://www.osv.org.au/index.cgi?tid=155
<LaserJock> morgs: dumb question, how to I leave Sugar?
<nubae> take a look, a nice list of all open source edu apps
<nubae> right now ctrl+alt+backspace
<LaserJock> nubae: yeah, it's been around a few years :-)
<morgs> LaserJock: press F3 to go to Home View, hover (or right-click) on central XO figure, Shutdown
<morgs> LaserJock: or alt-shift-q if running sugar-emulator
<nubae> morgs: that hasn't worked for my setups, always had to use combo keys
<nubae> but probably ltsp related
<morgs> nubae: hmm, there is a patch somewhere for logout, I must try to SRU that in too
<LaserJock> alt-shift-q worked
<LaserJock> F3 didn't for some reason
<nubae> riched was on earlier and suggested we put all the apps in a database and link to that so we can sort/search
<morgs> LaserJock: F1-F4 are "zoom levels" corresponding to special keys on the XO: F1 = network neighborhood view for collaboration, F2 = groups view/friends view, F3 = Home, F4 = the running activity
<LaserJock> nubae: agreed. we had a spec about that ~ 1 year ago
<LaserJock> nubae: you might dig that up and see what you think
<LaserJock> morgs: well F3 worked the first time, I ran some stuff, but when I hit it again it didn't do anything
<LaserJock> not sure if it's because of using xephyr or something
<morgs> LaserJock: hmm, if you get something reproducible let me know...
<LaserJock> morgs: so I *should* be able to hit F3 at any time and go back to that Home view?
<morgs> LaserJock: yeah
<nubae> talking of collaboration, inkscape supports xmpp
<LaserJock> good grief
<LaserJock> Abiword has collaboration, inkscape, at some point I'm gonna want to just be left alone to work :-)
<nubae> app called inkboard :-)
<nubae> yeah I think we should definetly explain how to set up collab for those though, its an awsome feature, as evidenced by Sugar
<morgs> LaserJock: http://paste.ubuntu.com/87300/ is my log file for Browse failing with this hulahop problem
<nubae> would be nice to see inkscape in Sugar
<morgs> nubae: yeah :)
<LaserJock> morgs: mine looks different
<morgs> LaserJock: on intrepid?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> want a pastebin?
<morgs> yes please
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu.com/87302/
<Ahmuck> SugarCRM?
<Ahmuck> nubae: whenever u have time
<morgs> Ahmuck: no, Sugar, the educational platform originally developed for the OLPC laptop
<nubae> Ahmucktell me I'm here now
 * Ahmuck searches
<nubae> last thing was I asked if /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/fati386 existed
<nubae> LaserJock: so we have inkscape, gobby, chat (various), and abiword that do collab on regular gnome... anything else?
<nubae> ah, and chesspark...
<LaserJock> morgs: wow, that is *slick*
<LaserJock> nubae: I'm not sure, that's all I can think of right now
<morgs> LaserJock: do you get the same error in a python interpreter if you just "import hulahop"? I get the traceback showing the same "from hulahop._hulahop import shutdown" line but mine gives ImportError: libxul.so
<Ahmuck> nubae: yes
<LaserJock> morgs: one sec, I installed rebuild .debs
<nubae> good, pastebin me the contents
<morgs> LaserJock: in any case, the rebuild should fix it
<LaserJock> morgs: it did, I'm just paranoid about stuff I upload :-)
<morgs> LaserJock: libpyxpcom.so and libxul.so are both in /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.0.4 and hulahop was built against /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.0.3
<morgs> LaserJock: I'm glad you're learning about Sugar :)
<LaserJock> morgs: yeah, I figured they'd be from the same package since xpcom is a xul thing
<LaserJock> morgs: it's really pretty interesting
<LaserJock> and easy to play around with
<morgs> So easy the kids can learn it before they are even literate - but the teachers need (re)training...
<LaserJock> morgs: I get the same libpyxpcom.so error from python console
<nubae> don't look for the start button bottom right
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> so must be just something slightly different on my system that it tries to load that before libxul.os or something
<nubae> or left even
<morgs> LaserJock: OK, not sure why it's a bit different but I don't have a completely pristine system right now
<LaserJock> morgs: also, F3 is fine
<morgs> :)
<LaserJock> I was expecting to go back to the favorites view when I hit F3
<LaserJock> but it kept me in the list view
<LaserJock> so I wasn't going anywhere :-)
<morgs> LaserJock: that has been suggested as an improvement, I'm not sure why it hasn't been implemented
<morgs> The list view is still part of the home view :)
<nubae> is there any way to run xo apps without sugar shell?
<morgs> nubae: not at this stage.
<nubae> is it an idea in the works?
<morgs> There has been some work on switching to metacity instead of matchbox, and reducing the dependencies, but at this stage python activities depend on the whole stack.
<morgs> I don't know how etoys handles running on Sugar or without Sugar, if it's just a configuration option
<nubae> I tried installing it in metacity, and no go
<nubae> from the intrepid repos
<nubae> etoys that is
<LaserJock> morgs: sugar-hulahop uploaded
<morgs> LaserJock: thanks!
<morgs> nubae: I haven't really looked at etoys on ubuntu yet
<nubae> well its listed in edubuntu apps, but it doesn't start
<LaserJock> morgs: do you have an impending upload of sugar-hulahop for Jaunty?
<morgs> LaserJock: no not yet
<nubae> I'm talking regular coffee, without sugar :-)
<LaserJock> nubae: it's listed where?
<morgs> :)
<LaserJock> morgs: I'll upload to Jaunty then as well if that's ok with you
<morgs> LaserJock: that would be great, thanks
<nubae> http://appnr.com/?search=etoys
<nubae> sorry but thats not edubuntu...
<morgs> LaserJock: thanks, I need to go sleep now, but I'll test it tomorrow morning
<LaserJock> morgs: are you sure it doesn't work on Jaunty?
<LaserJock> morgs: james_w did a merge on 20th of Nov with changes to make it build right against xul
<morgs> LaserJock: um, no, that's great. So nothing needed there.
<morgs> I must get a jaunty VM going...
 * morgs -> $HOME
<Ahmuck> there is one file there, lts.conf
<Ahmuck> nubae:
<nubae> http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Telepathy%20and%20other%20Projects
<nubae> Ahmuck: the kernel and stuff should be pretty much the same for both i386 and fati386, so copy -R /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/fati386
<nubae> making sure lts.conf is backed up first, as that will be different
<Ahmuck-Jr> bingo!  thx nubae
<Ahmuck-Jr> so, does ur instruction set have an error
<nubae> no
<nubae> just that because the very end didn't run, it didn't copy across the kernel init files
<nubae> so the script was b0rken...
<nubae> its fine now though since I uploaded the changed version yesterday
<eth01> i have a wiki page.. which i'd like removing
<eth01> is that possible?
<eth01> (it's for myself)
<nubae> which page?
<eth01> it's on the edubuntu wikipedia thing
<eth01> let me find it
<eth01> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/eth01
<LaserJock> eth01: there's not much of anything there
<eth01> doesn't matter
<LaserJock> k
<eth01> i'd like it to be removed :)
<eth01> (nonetheless)
<LaserJock> it will also leave wiki.ubuntu.com as well
<eth01> just something else google picks up
 * LaserJock just doesn't want to get into trouble :-)
<eth01> its ok
<eth01> ^^
<LaserJock> eth01: gone
<eth01> thanks :)
<eth01> want me to confirm it just incase somebody says anything?
<Ahmuck-Jr> nubae: ah, well i could have just re-run the script?
<LaserJock> eth01: nah, it was a basically empty page anyway
<eth01> ok
<eth01> ;)
<nubae> yeah but takes for ever, so this was easier Ahmuck-Jr :-)
<nubae> btw, yesterday I mentioned quanta plus, I meant to say Xara
<Ahmuck-Jr> i wondered about htat
<Ahmuck-Jr> i looked at quanta plus and was scratching my head
<nubae> lol, yeah
<nubae> wow, I switched from pidgin to empathy... very nice...
<LaserJock> I'm not a big fan of it yet, but it looks promising
<nubae> well it does everything pidgin should do, and has proper xmpp support
<nubae> but yeah their roadmap looks real promising
<stgraber> nubae: file transfer ?
<nubae> supposedly, but haven't found it in the gui yet... but its listed
<LaserJock> it doesn't do quite everything
<LaserJock> it's IRC support is there in name only
<LaserJock> I don't think I could even connect last time I tried
<LaserJock> it doesn't have any plugins
<nubae> I'm on irc via empathy right now
<nubae> works just fine
<nubae> better than pidgin in fact
<stgraber> nubae: jaunty ?
<nubae> intrepid
<stgraber> oh, ok
<nubae> requires installing empathy-idle
<nubae> I think latest src includes file transfer too, I'm checking that now
<stgraber> I tried empathy some weeks ago on Intrepid, file transfer was missing (I couldn't send and receive files) and the UI crashed twice a day or so (though the backend was still connected so I just had to start the UI again)
<nubae> pidgin crashes constantly for me, which is what prompted me to switch, lets see how empathy behaves
<nubae> the big thing though is it uses just telepathy and much tighter integation with the desktop
<LaserJock> weird
<LaserJock> I've never had pidgin crash on me I don't think
<nubae> well empathy just crashed on me now too
<nubae> but I didnt loose the conversations which is weird
<LaserJock> and empathy's IRC was no good at all last time I tried it on intrepid
<nubae> I think its quite nice actually... log files and all
<nubae> has a nice little calendar
<nubae> nice search features
<nubae> but its probably not stable enough yet
<nubae> its great for communicating with xos (sugar) as it has salut support, which I dont believe pidgin has, or am I wrong?
<LaserJock> don't know
<LaserJock> I just use jabber and IRC
<nubae> file transfer is now in it, in the source package
<nubae> no msn or irc file transfer though
<LaserJock> ogra: do you follow the edubuntu.jaunty seed at all?
<ogra> no, i didnt yet
<LaserJock> ogra: I reworked the desktop-kde seed quite a bit
<LaserJock> ogra: I also added pessulus to the desktop-addon seed
<ogra> feel free to commit
<ogra> great
<Ahmuck> desktop addon?
<ogra> wasnt that in already ?
<LaserJock> for some reason pessulus was in the kde seed but not the desktop-addon seed :s
<ogra> i thought it was
<ogra> weird
<Ahmuck> what's a seed?
<Ahmuck> in this context
<LaserJock> I made 2 replacements in desktop-kde
<LaserJock> I took gpaint and dia-gnome out
<LaserJock> and put in kolourpaint4 and umbrello
<ogra> yeah, they dont really belong into kde
<LaserJock> I also took out screem as it's pretty buggy and not worth the Gnome deps, IMO
<ogra> Ahmuck, seeds are the packagelists the metapackages are built from
<ogra> yeah, we didnt have a better html editor in main back then
<ogra> bluefish was to sparse
<ogra> and the netscape thing (forgot the name) wasnt possible to go to main
<LaserJock> quanta will be good for KDE but they have no KDE4 version yet so I just took screem out
<alkisg> LaserJock: good job!
<Ahmuck> kompozer
<Ahmuck> netscape --> seamonkey
<LaserJock> I did leave gobby and inkscape
<LaserJock> and put in italic
<ogra> right it was NVU ... which turned into kompozer
<Ahmuck> hai
<ogra> gobby is essential
<LaserJock> so I *think* it should make edubuntu-desktop-kde much better
<ogra> until KDE has something equivalent at least
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> but I made gobby Recommends instead of Depends
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> phew ...
<LaserJock> I need to quit
<LaserJock> got some good stuff done today though
<ogra> cool, thanks LaserJock
#edubuntu 2008-12-18
<ball> Anyone here use Edubuntu with LTSP?
<ball> (or vice versa)
<Ahmuck-Jr> is there a way to tell from the client if it is fat or thin?
<Ahmuck-Jr> nm, it's easy.  it's caching everything at this point
<Nubae-laptop> just check to see if in the terminal you see the server or the client
<Ahmuck-Jr> let's say we want to try blender.  does it buffer everything in the fat client's memory?
<Nubae-laptop> yes, though u can set it to use local or server swap space too
<Nubae-laptop> Ive never run tests to see if it maxes out the memory
<Nubae-laptop> would be interesting to see what happens
<Ahmuck-Jr> i just tried to use smc on a client to see how it would work. it was unusable.  i'm wondering if to run such beasts if one needs a fatter client
<Nubae-laptop> smc?
<Ahmuck-Jr> k, been trying a few other childrens games and software.  wine is kinda iffy at times
<Ahmuck-Jr> outside of wine those that run on linux work sorta ok, i assume it's cause my fat clients are not all that fat. 1Gz with 128 or 258Mb ram
<Nubae-laptop> can u write down which apps u try, and rate them
<Nubae-laptop> 128mb is really little
<Nubae-laptop> 256 is recommended, and with 512 it will be quite nice
<Ahmuck-Jr> what would you like me to test against?
<Ahmuck-Jr> machine wise
<Nubae-laptop> remember that essentially a fat client is the same as having your box run a normal ubuntu... so whatever speed u normally get on the machine if u installed to a hard drive is the speed ull get
<Ahmuck-Jr> hrm, ok
<Nubae-laptop> but u can play with the window manager of course
<Ahmuck-Jr> that's what i thought and i was under the impression these might do that.  however, i'll look at the specs on them and see
<Nubae-laptop> using xubuntu would be much faster
<Ahmuck-Jr> xubuntu on the server?
<Nubae-laptop> ram is the big kicker... Im sure if u enable swap it will go faster
<Ahmuck-Jr> how about openbox, via crashbang?
<Nubae-laptop> no, in fatclient chroot
<Nubae-laptop> anything u like really
<Nubae-laptop> its just changing the packages that are mentioned in the script
<Ahmuck-Jr> enable swap for the fat client?  does the swap use the local hard disk ?
<Nubae-laptop> it uses what u tell it to use
<Nubae-laptop> server swap or local swap
<Ahmuck-Jr> the local hard disk would be faster than trying to send swap over the wire
 * Ahmuck-Jr thinks
<Nubae-laptop> depends on how much is sent
<Nubae-laptop> it should be minimal unless u run with 128mb of course
<Nubae-laptop> in which case a snappier windows manager is probably a better idea
<Nubae-laptop> u could try sugar too, that only needs 55mb
<Ahmuck-Jr> k, i'll check mem specs.  pc166 mem is about 40.00 for two 256mb chips
<Nubae-laptop> sounds expensive
<Ahmuck-Jr> so at that point it makes sense to purchase new mobo, procs, and mem
<Nubae-laptop> I can get it over here much cheaper
<Ahmuck-Jr> where r u at?
<Nubae-laptop> vienna, Austria
<Nubae-laptop> there are second hand shops here that carry lots of that stuff, at virtually nothing
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146302
<Nubae-laptop> I calculated I could build a terminal with screen for under 80$
<Ahmuck-Jr> it's coming down
<Ahmuck-Jr> i'm very rural, and the closest second hand shop would be 4 hours
<Nubae-laptop> ah... yeah... and of course they dont carry that online :-)
<Nubae-laptop> u checked ebay
<Nubae-laptop> ?
<Ahmuck-Jr> nope
<Ahmuck-Jr> we get these auctions that sell computers in lots basically
<Ahmuck-Jr> so i've been looking at those
<Ahmuck-Jr> windows xp key is on them, so i would suspect they might run a bit faster
<Ahmuck-Jr> k. well this is a nice start.  i did notice an improvement in speed on inet and office so that was nice
<Ahmuck-Jr> you mentioned enabling swap on the client.  just create a linux swap partition or is this something that needs to be enabled in the client configuration ?
<Nubae-laptop> no needs to be enabled
<Nubae-laptop> I can add it to the script, its a couple lines... but its getting late now, remind me tomorrow
<Ahmuck-Jr> yes, it's very late for me
<Ahmuck-Jr> i'll remind you then.  thx again Nubae-laptop i'll play around with my configurations
<Ahmuck-Jr> and post a "tried" list out
<Nubae-laptop> k
<The_Undisputable> hi evertybody
<generalsnus> I have a problem with users unable to mount their USB drives on our thinclients. We use Xubuntu LTSP servers..and authenticate users against M$ server 2003. previously this had worked great.. but   somwhere along with some updates, it must have been broken. I remeber editing a config file to get this working in the first place.. but cant remember witch..  Also adding users to a linux group(fuse), wont work since the 
<generalsnus> how can i add a group that is called " domain^users "  to a group in xubuntu that is called "FUSE"?
<generalsnus> Can somone help me troubleshoot this error mesage? i get it when i try to mount a USB drive: A security policy in place prevents this sender from sending this message to this recipient, see message bus configuration file (rejected message had interface "org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.Volume" member "Mount" error name "(unset)" destination "org.freedesktop.Hal").'
<generalsnus> how can i get usb disk to mount automaticly on desktop in xubuntu? or how can i make a application launcher on desktop..with the command: thunar /media/$USER/usbdisk-sda1
<RichEd> generalsnus: I suggest you also try asking in #ltsp
<RichEd> we all use the same LTSP and the guys there are well up to speed on ubuntu
<RichEd> sbalneav should also be around later here and there ... he is on canada time
<ball> If I didn't have to be here today, I could try out Edubuntu (and send out a bunch of resumes)
<ball> hello Ahmuck
<ball> brb
<Ahmuck> hi ball !
<sbalneav> Morning all
<ball> hello
<LaserJock> morgs: so does sugar-hulahop have to be rebuilt every time there's a new firefox/xulrunner version?
<Ahmuck-Jr> ow if it does
<ball> oooh... I could almost try Sugar now if it weren't for my 12.5" screen.
<ball> I have a Xubuntu box ready.
<LaserJock> ball: 12.5" is too small?
<Ahmuck-Jr> someone point me to sugar?!
<Ahmuck-Jr> via html link?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck-Jr: the project or do you want to install it?
<Ahmuck-Jr> i'm really curious now.  the project so i can review it
<LaserJock> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Main_Page
<Ahmuck-Jr> how does sugar work with ubuntu?  does that come up as the desktop replacement?
<ball> LaserJock: it is at 80 DPI, but it that way.
<Ahmuck-Jr> work with ubuntu ltsp
<ball> (and the monitor's not up to more than 80 dpi)
<LaserJock> Ahmuck-Jr: you can have it just be like Gnome or KDE, a login option
<LaserJock> Ahmuck-Jr: I run it in the emulator on my Gnome desktop now
<LaserJock> as I don't need to run it full time
<Ahmuck-Jr> LaserJock: i thought sugar was the entire desktop.  is there a way to force it that way for kids?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck-Jr: what do you mean?
<ball> run it in place of your window manager?
<LaserJock> if you just install it you can do that
<Ahmuck-Jr> one thing i've looked at is separating ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu/crunchbang/opengeu and their menus
<Ahmuck-Jr> so that their default menus are intact allowing the user to use a default install of that particular flavour of *untu
<Ahmuck-Jr> well, desktop, being gnome, kde, openbox, sugar
<LaserJock> that's a tough nut to crack
<Ahmuck-Jr> same distro, separate desktop based on user preferences, or
<LaserJock> with gnome and kde it's somewhat easy to do
<LaserJock> because they often set gnome and kde specifc flags in their .desktop files
<Ahmuck-Jr> Nubae's fat clients are going to force me into learning python and QT so i can program a gui for fat/thin client host administration
<LaserJock> but for just general menu entries it's not easy to say
<ball> I would like to be able to launch the menu as a separate X client, for when I'm not sitting at the console.
<LaserJock> Ahmuck-Jr: Qt?
<LaserJock> are you running KDE?
<Ahmuck-Jr> no, but i like Qt apps :)
<Ahmuck-Jr> and Qt apps are portable iirc
<LaserJock> pygtk would also be fairly portable
<LaserJock> I just wondered, as doing pyqt would force a dependency whereas pygtk would not as it's already installed
<Ahmuck-Jr> on ubuntu ltsp client ?
<Ahmuck-Jr> i'll look at it for sure
<Ahmuck-Jr> hrm, i don't think my fat clients are in fat client mode.
<morgs> LaserJock: yeah, hulahop needs rebuilding for each new xulrunner. asac referred to some way around that which I must look into.
<LaserJock> morgs: yeah, that's seriously uncool :-)
<LaserJock> imagine through the next 3 years of hardy support us needing to reupload hulahop
<morgs> yeah, I was hoping to get some assistance from the mozillateam for uploads each time, but since hulahop's in universe they're not happy to take it on themselves
<morgs> Somehow debian manage not to change the xulrunner paths for every minor release in their packaging, it's always /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9 not /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.0.5
<LaserJock> morgs: I wonder why we do that?
<Ahmuck> what is hulahop?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: it's a part of sugar that is used by the web browser
<LaserJock> python-hulahop - Sugar graphical shell - gecko-based web engine
<Ahmuck> k. i've been looking at gullop ?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: ?
<Ahmuck> bbiab
#edubuntu 2008-12-19
<nothingman> hi, all
<HedgeMage> hello :)
<nothingman> howdy, nubae!
<nothingman> having trouble now that I have a new chroot directory and (presumably) an image
<nothingman> now my laptop's not getting a DHCP address, though my server shows DHCP offers in syslog
<nothingman> I assume it's my dhcpd.conf
<nothingman> but I don't know how to fix it
<nothingman> and then again, the same dhcpd.conf seemed to work
<nothingman> it gave an address, but had no image to give so the laptop failed to boot
<HedgeMage> I'm afraid that LTSP is not my area of expertise, sorry.
<Ahmuck-Jr> nubae: r u around?
<Ahmuck> nubae: i'm not sure i'm getting a fat client, you mentioned i could tell by the terminal.  the title in the terminal?  currently the title shows the server.
<stmartin> Hello! Is there any math solver for edubuntu?
<nubae> Ahmuck, in the terminal u should be able to see the fat client chroot (check by seeing if the file list is different than on the server)
<nubae> for example, /opt/ltsp/fati386 will exist only on the server, not in the fatclient
<sbalneav> Morning all
<nubae> greets sbalneav
<Ahmuck-Jr> *yawn*.  good morning as well
<Ahmuck-Jr> ple, /opt/ltsp/fati386 will exist only on the ser ?
<Ahmuck-Jr> as in open a terminal and "ls /opt/ltsp/fati386"
<Ahmuck-Jr> it shows on the client
<nubae> hmm, then you are not in the fat client
<Ahmuck> should i just re-run the script?
<nubae> well if fati386.img exists, no
<nubae> just make sure in dhcpd.conf that its really grabbing that and not i386
<nubae> another way to check is see if blender is installed... that should be there, if u dont have it on the server that is
<nubae> I have to run, but write whatever and I'll make sure to answer
<Ahmuck> k
<Ahmuck-Jr> no, blender is not listed
<LaserJock> hi all
<LaserJock> any thoughts on setting up an Edubuntu meeting?
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: would love to listen in
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: just listen?
<LaserJock> :-)
<Ahmuck-Jr> yes, i agree, that's a bit hard for me to do
<Ahmuck-Jr> seriously though, i'd listen rather than rattle
<LaserJock> we like rattle
<LaserJock> just focused rattle ;-)
<Ahmuck-Jr> lol, i'll have to take my meds :)
<Ahmuck-Jr> not really, just joking
<LaserJock> everybody is welcome at Edubuntu meetings
<LaserJock> RichEd: would you be able to make an edubuntu meeting on the 31st?
<Ahmuck-Jr> when and where?
<RichEd> LaserJock: from here ? http://www.junglejunction.info/bovu.htm ? doubt it :/
<LaserJock> pffft, fine, be that way
<LaserJock> RichEd: how 'bout the week after?
<LaserJock> the 7th of jan.
<RichEd> prolly would be fine ... i'll be back from darkest africa in civilised africa by then
<LaserJock> "civilised"
<LaserJock> I think I'd take the lions over some of those Afrikaners ;-)
<RichEd> where we have organised corruption as opposed to random corruption
<RichEd> this "little river spot" is 10km from my first backpackers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/81302451@N00/136476218/
<LaserJock> wow
<RichEd> or this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/babsphotosecosse/2315207770/sizes/o/
<LaserJock> amazing
<RichEd> the thunder that roars: Mosi-oa-Tunya  : also known to the white man as Victoria Falls
 * LaserJock wonders how many times Queen Victoria went to the falls
<RichEd> once ... she said "We are not amused"
<LaserJock> you serious?
<RichEd> no ... that is just a famous quote of hers
<Ahmuck> RichEd: is that your photo?
<RichEd> Ahmuck: nope ... going back to visist a place I last saw when I was 5 years old
<Ahmuck> ah
<Ahmuck> know hugin ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: I was going to say it would confirm the idea of royal insanity ;-)
<RichEd> ^ silly bint has more places named after her than any other women, all named by sycophantic male subjects
<LaserJock> good 'ole queen Vic
<RichEd> hugin > is that like hooters but a warm and friendly greeting instead of babes ?
<RichEd> LaserJock: the were all nutters
<RichEd> "He built the toilet in 1596 for his godmother, Queen Elizabeth I (immortalized as the queen who took a bath once a month "whether she need it or not"), and installed it for her use in Richmond Palace"
<RichEd> http://images.hostelworld.com/images/hostels/3217_2.jpg also a nice pic
#edubuntu 2008-12-20
<Ahmuck> hugin is a pano stitcher
<Ahmuck> RichEd:
<nubae> anyone here?
<nubae> LaserJock: ???
<LaserJock> nubae: yep?
<nubae> ah just checking... :-) but wanted to quickly touch base vis a vis sugar... should I include it in the apps?
<nubae> for edubuntu
<nubae> the website
<LaserJock> no
<nubae> cool, so u think it will be after Jaunty?
<LaserJock> I'd like to see it *for* Jaunty
<nubae> still requires many bug fixes I believe, but would be nice for sure
<LaserJock> but since it's not in I don't think it's a good idea to put it on a list
<nubae> btw, I wrote an article about collaboration on gnome/ubuntu: http://nubae.com/telepathy-empathy-and-collaboration
<LaserJock> nubae: do you have app lists for hardy and intrepid?
<nubae> just intrepid I believe
<nubae> is it different from hardy?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> nubae: is the intrepid list up on edubuntu.org?
<nubae> not yet... almost finished
<nubae> I'm using the spreadsheet riched gave me
<LaserJock> I'm not trying to rush ya, just wondered ;-)
<nubae> its just html at the moment, no database
<LaserJock> no problem
<Ahmuck> nubae: i'm glad ur here
<Ahmuck> nubae: no blender
<Ahmuck> http://ultrastardx.sourceforge.net/about-ultrastar-deluxe/ - singing
<LaserJock> nubae: just got done reading through your telepathy post
<LaserJock> nubae: looking at your screenshot of empathy, it does look much improved since I last tried it
<Ahmuck> lpairs is an interesting childs memory game
<neil_d> I found this cute computer http://www.norhtec.com/products/mcjrsx/index.html it has a CPU without a floating point unit,  can I use it as a LTSP terminal ?\
<Ahmuck> looking at fat clients, possible to boot from wireless and use the fat client via wireless?
<nubae> hey Ahmuck, am back now
<nubae> I live in Austria, so times are slightly different for me :-)
<Ahmuck> yes, i wondered about that
<Ahmuck> i'm back as well
<nubae> Ahmuck: I'm working on just that... since ltsp cannot normally do wireless due to bandwidth restrictions, fatclient is perfect for it
<Ahmuck> so, it does not appear i have fat clients yet.  should i just re-run the script?
<Ahmuck> nubae: u have a wireless fatclient?
<nubae> well lets analyse the problem first... pastebin me your /etc/inetd.conf
<nubae> and your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<nubae> I'm working on wireless fat client, don't have it yet
<Ahmuck> k, brb
<Ahmuck> whats holding up the wirless fat client?
<nubae> time :-)
<Ahmuck> i was just thinking one could turn just about any wireless laptop into a fat client so it wouldn't matter what os the client had installed
<Ahmuck> er, just got to thinking after what you said
<nubae> right, the idea though for wireless is that it has the most minimal kernel for booting up the wireless drivers and then connect to the dhcp server
<nubae> to download the rest to memory
<Ahmuck-Jr> ltsp is a powerful concept that i think could be expanded further with software addons by default
<nubae> software addons?
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15560
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15561
<Ahmuck-Jr> \o/ two in a row, 15560 n 15561
<nubae> oh and your fatclient pxe config file
<nubae> /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/fati386/pxelinux.cfg/default
<nubae> the error is probably in there, needs to be set to port 2001
<nubae> otherwise indeed it just loads up your regular thin client
<nubae> Ahmuck, your server has ip address 192.168.0.1?
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15562
<Ahmuck-Jr> the server is default
<Ahmuck-Jr> until i can get this nailed down
<Ahmuck-Jr> i'm still testing though the thin client side is working
<nubae> ok, theres your problem
<nubae> u need nbdport 2001 at the end of your default
<Ahmuck-Jr> k, i assume that was missing from your script or didn't complete ?
<nubae> well, we manually copied the whole /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 dir over
<Ahmuck-Jr> i think we still have a problem, no blender
<nubae> hrmmm... yeah looking at my own setup, one doesnt seem to need the nbdport def in default anymore...
<nubae> ok, just delete /opt/ltsp/fati386 and redo the image
<Ahmuck-Jr> so, copy the new script, and then rebuild the image?
<nubae> yeah, just to be sure, download the script from my site again
<Ahmuck-Jr> er, did you remove the script link ?
<nubae> no, just the hardy one...
<nubae> let me look :-)
 * Ahmuck-Jr can't find the intrepid one either
<nubae> oops
<Ahmuck-Jr> :)
<Ahmuck> so is ltsp currently the only way to get centralized login, storage, etc. for students?
<Ahmuck> on linux
<nubae> ok, check now
<nubae> more or less yes, one can also use drbl, and various commercial solutions
<nubae> but LTSP is by far the best and most vibrant solution
<Ahmuck-Jr>  /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/ubuntu/030-fatclient !== /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/(U)buntu/030-fatclient
<Ahmuck-Jr> nubae: k, building
<Ahmuck-Jr> catch the syntax error i noted for ubuntu/Ubuntu on the blog entry?
<nubae> think so, did I?
<Ahmuck-Jr> it's baaack :)
<Ahmuck-Jr> It has been fully tested on Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex. Instructions are to save the corresponding file to /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/ubuntu/030-fatclient
<nubae> changed, thanks...
<Ahmuck> managed ltsp servers, with load balancing ?  would this have to be done with every one?
<nubae> not sure what u mean
<Ahmuck> isn't there a way to have multiple ltsp servers and they hand leases off to clients as they get them?
 * Ahmuck digs around in my logs
<nubae> ltsp-cluster
<nubae> u mean
<Ahmuck> yes
<Ahmuck> i'm still learning the ltsp terms and etc.
<nubae> greets LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi nubae
<Ahmuck-Jr> nubae: http://pastebin.be/15567
<Ahmuck> nubae: it appears that worked.  it's working now, i know because i now have a edubuntu login screen
<Ahmuck> oh yikes, erk, erm.  that replaced the entire ubuntu desktop with edubuntu desktop, applications, menu's, and all
<nubae> rihgt
<nubae> right
<nubae> so u have blender?
<Ahmuck> yes, i now have fat clients.  but i've lost my customized menus, and the webpage opens up to say welcome to edubuntu  8.04
<Ahmuck> this is a good thing.
<Ahmuck> i'd like to post your blog post as part of documentation i'm going to do on step by step ltsp setup with screenshots and all
<Ahmuck> if you'll let me.  i do have some other questions
<nubae> awsome...
<nubae> ask away
<Ahmuck> i learn by theory first and then by syntax
<Ahmuck> so, i somewhat interested in the theory of how this works.  but for another day
<nubae> I'm here now so any questions I can answer
<Ahmuck> secondly, i noticed you have "packaged" applications in your script.  i assume that the script could be customized to create a set of applications and without replacing the menus?
<nubae> absolutely
<Ahmuck> i need to look over your script, and then layout the how and why this works
<Ahmuck> as i believe in education as well as why it works.
<nubae> its really quite simple, I took the existing thin client script and adapted it to install the apps we want, there are some basic requierd apps, and then the rest is cutomised to how u want it
<Ahmuck> something i noticed is that you used the edubuntu icon set and theme.  i would assume i could pull this from edubuntu itself as an icon set and theme and then do similar to what kde does and just apply it as a theme, therefor creating a set of "canned" themes students could choose from
<nubae> I've also use it do adapt to creating a xubuntu desktop and a kubuntu desktop
<Ahmuck> ah, ok.  that sounds interesting
<Ahmuck> do you have sepearte scripts for xubuntu and kubuntu?
<nubae> well its pretty simple, as a base. pull in xubuntu-desktop or kubuntu-desktop
<nubae> and then layer on top
<Ahmuck> so i assume that your fat client has a customized menu?
<Ahmuck> is that "local apps" ?
<nubae> nope
 * Ahmuck is still confused about the "local apps" thingy
<nubae> this was before localapps, its just what u put into the package list
<nubae> local apps is regular thin clients with one or two apps running on the fat client
<nubae> fatclient is everything running on the client
<Ahmuck> ah, ok
<nubae> there are advantages and disatvantages on both sides, though I believe fatclient is much more cutomisable
<Ahmuck> so if you have a fat client why would you need a local app unless your running mixed clients ?
<nubae> u dont
<Ahmuck> so the local app applies only to the thin client
<nubae> right
<Ahmuck> and the fat client gets a fully loaded local app menu
<Ahmuck> *blink* *blink*, a light bulb comes on
<Ahmuck> floresant of course to save power
<Ahmuck> so now i need to start looking at sugar, course management, etc.
<Ahmuck> the foundations done, now i need the walls
<Ahmuck> and then the roof and all the nice apps for the furniture
<Ahmuck> is there a way for ltsp to query a thin client every 30 boots and set the hardware specs for that client and then lockout certian desktops?
<nubae> italc
<nubae> but its not time based
<nubae> its manual
<Ahmuck> it's doesn't do it automagially by client hardware specs either i don't suppose
<nubae> give me a use case scenario
<Ahmuck> bring in 3 new pc's or deploy a new ltsp server to usd xx in the county school district, the server starts, peeks at the config of the pc's connecting, builds a profile of each one and sets thin/thick clients in the dhcpd.conf based on mac address and specs
<Ahmuck> or a gui to do so.
<Ahmuck> like a spec, with a green icon for fat client and an option to check
<Ahmuck> k, anyhow, i'm getting ahead of myself
<Ahmuck> the school distircit here is on citrix, which i understand is a real pain to get around in
<nubae> well citrix is the microsoft ltsp solution
<nubae> though it sucks
<Ahmuck> lol, did not realize that
<Ahmuck> it uses ltsp ?
<Ahmuck> really?
<nubae> no
<Ahmuck> the thin clients are already there, the network is already there
<nubae> just seems like it :-)
#edubuntu 2008-12-21
<Ahmuck> nubae: well, the script worked to install, but it appears the clients have no internet access
<Ahmuck> nubae: because the desktop was so different and logged into the server  was exactly the same as before, how does software installation work ?
<Ahmuck> nubae: is the software like two different sets of clients?
<Ahmuck> the fat clients have something different than the thin?
 * Ahmuck is going to try a thin client
<Ahmuck> 2c
<Ahmuck> nubae: just finished reading the script.  i understand what it's doing and most of the syntax
<Ahmuck> i should have read it ealier
 * Ahmuck nudges channel
<Ahmuck> anybody want to look at nubae script and help me figure out what killed the inet connection after running it?
<stgraber> Ahmuck: if you are running with a standard ltsp network as it's installed by ubuntu when you have two networks cards, the default is not to let the thin clients access internet
<nubae> stgraber: wwhat must I do to make fatclinet part of ubuntu?
<stgraber> I would need to check what you're exactly doing with your scripts, but I'd say that having that cleanly integrated as ltsp-build-client scripts and using the same infrastructure as ltsp would be a good start
<stgraber> I never really had the time to look at your scripts so I can only comment on what I overheard on IRC
<nubae> well please take a look, I belive its a close adaptation of what's already there
<stgraber> ok, looking at your website, the build-client integration looks good, the only issue I see is nfs
<nubae> please tell me what I can do to make it fit in... other than nfs, how can I share the home dir?
<stgraber> well, one way I thought about (but it's not one of my projects atm) is to actually make fat clients use ldm
<stgraber> so ldm would do the ssh authentication, then as first rc.d script would start the local session
<stgraber> so you get /home mounted using sshfs, you also get the user and its groups created, ...
<stgraber> it should be quite easy to do that as the session open part is now a ldm rc.d script as of jaunty
<stgraber> so all you need is to make this one run the session locally instead of using ssh
<nubae> I dont know how to do that, but if u explain I can try
<stgraber> just look at the X* ldm rc.d scripts in jaunty (I have an intrepid backport in my ppa)
<stgraber> it's basically doing: ssh user@server /etc/X11/Xsession
<stgraber> so you could just drop the ssh part and open the X session locally
<nubae> u say this becauÅe nfs is insecure?
<stgraber> well, yeah, that's a thing, you really don't want everyone on your network to be able to read everyone's files
<stgraber> the other is that I don't want to have to install both nfs and nbd by default
<stgraber> and don't want to have to test/support it
<nubae> ok makes sense
<stgraber> anyway, it's midnight here. If you need help understanding what was changed in upstream ltsp recently (a lot of things got changed mainly in ldm) just poke me later.
<nubae> k, cool thanks
<cobra-the-joker> any body her
<cobra-the-joker> here *
<LetsGo67> How do I play iTunes FairPlay media in Ubuntu?
<nubae> what format is it in?
<LetsGo67> m4v?
<nubae> try vlc
<LetsGo67> VLC Linux?
<nubae> yep
<LetsGo67> Can play protected?
<nubae> not sure, try it
<LetsGo67> Can't play protected music
<LetsGo67> Thanks anyways
<cib0> hi
#edubuntu 2009-12-14
<skullcandy23> hey guys i need some help
<skullcandy23> does anyone have the terminal code for flashplayer plug in firefox on ubuntu 9.04 ?
<skullcandy23_> does anyone have a place were u can install flash player for ubuntu 9.04 firefox ?
<sakhi> morning
<sbalneav> Morning all
<mhall119|work> morning
#edubuntu 2009-12-15
<madcat> Hi anyone here? I've a question how do you automatically run local app on thin client without typing ltsp-localapps (program)?
<Ahmuck-Jr> permantly?
<Ahmuck-Jr> madcat:
<madcat> Hi ahmuck-jr, yes because we're using it forever
<madcat> Our thin clients are fat clients so to speak
<Ahmuck-Jr> u can do a fat client mode, or u can do drbl for fat clients
<Ahmuck-Jr> u can also put localapps in your lts.conf
<madcat> What's a fat client mode? Or drbl?
<madcat> Yes I've edited my lts.conf
<Ahmuck-Jr> nubae had a fat client mode script
<madcat> I've followed the guide on help.ubuntu, but it doesn't show up on the menu
<Ahmuck-Jr> after editing the script, you need to enter chroot and install the apps in chroot
<Ahmuck-Jr> what apps are these?
<madcat> They're simple apps open-office, totem, gimp, you should see a (ws12) on the app top window if it's running local right?
<madcat> but mine won't show up, I need to still type ltsp-localapps everytime
<madcat> Isn't it suppose to be automatically launched locally in the menu?
<Ahmuck-Jr> u chrooted these apps?
<madcat> Yes
<Ahmuck-Jr> rebuilt the client
<madcat> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLocalAppsJaunty followed this
<madcat> I already rebuilt it
<madcat> also when I launch them from Applications> etc... and I do ltsp-localapps xterm  ps aux | grep (program) it doesn't show to be running
<madcat> The reason I'm asking is some of my co workers, don't know how to type in the CLI ltsp-localapps (program)
<Ahmuck-Jr> wow, out of my leage
<Ahmuck-Jr> i don't recall going through anything that contovoluted
<Ahmuck-Jr> and you shouldn't have to type in ltsp-localapps
<madcat> I'm sorry, I'm using Ubuntu not edubuntu
<madcat> Don't worry, thanks for your help!
<madcat> :)
<Ahmuck-Jr> madcat: i use ubuntu
<Ahmuck-Jr> u can ask ltsp questions here.  ur wanting stgraber
<Ahmuck-Jr> er, sbalneav
<Ahmuck-Jr> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DisklessUbuntuHowto - wow, so many options
<Ahmuck-Jr> this howto, it's not drbl or ltsp or ldap ?!
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Jr: It's just implementing LTSP the way it started out originally.
<Ahmuck-Jr> how's that
<Ahmuck-Jr> btw, epaphus and madcat both in ltsp have ltsp questions i cannot answer
<Ahmuck-Jr> do you ever get tired of answering the same questions?
<sbalneav> No, I don't mind.
<sbalneav> brb, I'll announce myself in #ltsp
<alkisg> Ahmuck-Jr: the link you posted just uses remote hard disk space, nothing more
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Jr: the very first implementation of LTSP that Jim did as a test was NFS root dir mounted read/write, like they're doing.
<alkisg> Similar to AoE
<sbalneav> right.
<alkisg> It doesn't involve thin clients
<alkisg> (hi all :))
<sbalneav> I did something similar to this 15 years ago with 68030 sun workstations.
<sbalneav> there's 50 bazillion different ways you can do thin clients on unix machines.
<sbalneav> All LTSP is is just one "nicely prepackaged" method of doing it.
<sbalneav> The only reason why LTSP became the "de facto" (if you can call it that) project is because:
<sbalneav> 1) Jim did a LOT of chatting it up in the beginning,
<Ahmuck> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLocalAppsJaunty is this doc up to date?
<Ahmuck> is this really what needs to happen in jaunty?
<sbalneav> 2) Eric implemented it in K12LTSP
<sbalneav> 3) We managed to attract a fairly high-quality cadre of people who liked what we were doing, and spread it around.
<Ahmuck> alkisg: have you looked at drbl?
<Ahmuck> i'm kinda looking at fat clients as well, but not sure if ltsp is the way to go
<alkisg> Ahmuck: yes, I didn't like it at all
<Ahmuck> why?
<alkisg> It's a pack of patches that don't integrate with anything
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: stgraber posted jaunty localapps above, is that doc correct?  one has to follow all those things for local apps?  or is the ltsp doc correct?
<Ahmuck> someone suggested that drbl was not being maintained?!
<alkisg> Ahmuck: let's continue on LTSP, it won't be easy to talk in 2 pages at once
<Ahmuck> well drbl isn't really ltsp, but might apply to edubuntu classrooms
<Ahmuck> i didn't want to make the ltsp guys upset
<alkisg> Ahmuck: no don't worry the ltsp guys don't get easily upset :)
<alkisg> Just a warning, don't try drbl in a system that you don't want to format it afterwards :)
<alkisg> It doesn't get properly uninstalled. It doesn't use the packaging system much.
<sbalneav> Some of us snarkier b*st*rds make pointed comments from time to time, but all in good fun :)
<Ahmuck> clonezilla server uses drbl
<Ahmuck> drbl live
<Ahmuck> been looking at cloning 30+ computers at a time
<Ahmuck> then using ldap/nfs for authentication/storage
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: Never worry about offending anyone in LTSP by discussing thin client systems other than LTSP.
<sbalneav> Most of us have all played around with other thin client solutions.  We come back to LTSP for a variety of reasons.
<sbalneav> Most of the time the people come back to us because we're the only Free Software thin client project that both actively developed, AND actively supported.
<sbalneav> Plus we're good people to hang around with if you like Beer and Lobster.  And steak :)
<Ahmuck> well, i'm allergic to beer, and don't think i've ever had lobster
<Ahmuck> but i do raise beef!
<sbalneav> On the hoof?
<sbalneav> Moo!
<Ahmuck> yep
<Ahmuck> we could host a convention and have all the beef one would need
<sbalneav> So long as I don't have to get it myself :(
<sbalneav> I'm squeamish, which, for a meat eater, is a logically inconsistent thing to be.... but there it is.
<sbalneav> I don't mind my meat already cut up on to nice little styrofoam trays, but I can't look bessie in the eye :(
<sbalneav> Where's your ranch?  How many acres?
<Ahmuck> kansas
<Ahmuck> center of the continent
<sbalneav> Section? Quarter section
<sbalneav> ?
<sbalneav> My cottage is on 40 acres that part of it was used as cattle grazing land.
<sbalneav> *yawn*
<sbalneav> Headin' to bed.  Be on tomorrow, same bat time, same bat channel.
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> hi sbalneav!
<Lns> http://blog.freenode.net/2009/12/december-8-2009-connectivity-issues-and-netsplits/
<dgroos> Good afternoon--got a question.
<dgroos> I had that recursive fd/3/fd/3/fd deal again and it brought down my server and it's my lunch so have a few moments to try to fix it.
<dgroos> sbalneav had mentioned a bug in a program that had been fixed awhile back in the stgraber's Launchpad.
<dgroos> I thought I re-updated the things from this launchpad, but it seems that I've got this error again.
<dgroos> My server has been working about 7 minutes now with
<dgroos> rm -r fd (which contains the massive bloated file.  Now going on 8 minutes...
<dgroos> where is this bug documented?
<asanchez> ping stgraber
<stgraber> asanchez: pong
<asanchez> stgraber, edubuntu menu editor looks very interesting
<asanchez> we've just solved our divert problems using XDG as you recommend us in barcelona
<asanchez> but menu editor is still interesting for these classrooms that want a more reduce educational menu
<asanchez> currently we have most of our developers working in a new collaboration tool (https://launchpad.net/guadalinexedu-collaboration-tool) and in a usb stick for unnattended installations
<asanchez> but I think we can help you testing your alpha and beta releases
<stgraber> asanchez: cool, I'll let you know when we have something working. We'll also be looking for some example menus to include in the package.
<asanchez> Our education menu has a lot of things, I think is a bad example
<asanchez> we receive everyday requests for new applications and menu is becoming a monster
<asanchez> http://www.guadalinexedu.org/img/background_guadalinexedu_650x406.png
<alkisg> stgraber: when you said we'll have live LTSP in the edubuntu DVD... has someone been assigned this? Or it's just a thought?
<alkisg> stgraber: so, because I want to do something similar, should I be working on that? Or should I just wait? (I prefer the second choice of course :))
<dgroos> bump...
<dgroos> infinite recursion creates GB of fd/3/fd/3/fd/3...
<dgroos> help?
<Ahmuck-Jr> dgroos: hi
<Ahmuck-Jr> restate the question in laymans terms
<dgroos> Ahmuck-Jr: howdy
<dgroos> I tried to start my computers during 2nd period today, they wouldn't work correctly.  I jumped ship from my room and went to a computer lab that happened to be empty then.
<dgroos> When I was able to investigate things, I checked Hard drive memory and found the disk was FULL.
<dgroos> I tracked down some of the bloat to a specific user's dev directory.  There was a directory in there called, "fd".
<dgroos> inside of that was a directory called, "3", inside of that there was a directory called, "fd", "3" was in that, fd in that... and so in down the line...
<dgroos> I removed the fd directory as root user: rm -r fd when I was in the users dev directory. 14 minutes later, the command completed, and the hard drive was 27 GB lighter!
<dgroos> sbalneav had said this was a bug in ... I don't remember... but that it had been fixed in stgraber's Launchpad.
<dgroos> I have his launchpad as a source, updated/installed, but I get this fatal problem again.
<sbalneav> dgroos: yeah, it's cause by spaces in usernames apparently
<dgroos> Anyone?
<sbalneav> Anyone what?
<sbalneav> I responded :)
<dgroos> :)
<sbalneav> can you reproduce the problem by putting a space in the username?
<dgroos> what do you mean, put a space in the name?  when I login?
<sbalneav> right
<sbalneav> that is apparently what triggers it.
<sbalneav> so, see if you can trigger it, then we can see if there's another bbug lurking in there.
<sbalneav> We fix it, you install the fix...
<sbalneav> Problem solved :)
<dgroos> OK!
<sbalneav> But, not 'till I get home at least, since it's time for me to head home from work and get some dindin
<sbalneav> I should be back at the keyboard by 6:30 -> 7:00 cst
<dgroos> Thanks, back to you then!
<dgroos> wow-- I put a space before the username and login seemed to work initially, but it stalled before the login screen appeared.
<dgroos> I did, "sudo du -sh *" inside this users home folder.  I watch the dev directory quickly grow in size.  It started at 176 KB, did it again 45 seconds later and it was 100 MB.  Did it a minute or two later and it was 548 MB, a minute or so later and it was 921 MB. And there it stays.
<dgroos> On the client it now says, "An add-in card in the system appeared to not work correctly on the last boot attempt...  (then there's a note that says to push F1 to boot).  Which I did, then it didn't login and instead went to the screen it normally shows when the thin client fails to boot.
<dgroos> I'm heading home too--I'll be back later.
<dgroos> Ahmuck-Jr: thanks for asking :)
#edubuntu 2009-12-16
<dgroos> ping sbalneav
<sbalneav> pong
<dgroos> good eve
<dgroos> You were right about the space in the login name.
<dgroos> Did you see the comments I made soon after you left?
<sbalneav> Something about the thin client failing to boot?
<dgroos> I'll copy and paste...
<dgroos> (from earlier, right after testing...) wow-- I put a space before the username and login seemed to work initially, but it stalled before the login screen appeared.
<dgroos> (continues...) I did, "sudo du -sh *" inside this users home folder.  I watch the dev directory quickly grow in size.  It started at 176 KB, did it again 45 seconds later and it was 100 MB.  Did it a minute or two later and it was 548 MB, a minute or so later and it was 921 MB. And there it stays.
<dgroos> (and ends...) On the client it now says, "An add-in card in the system appeared to not work correctly on the last boot attempt...  (then there's a note that says to push F1 to boot).  Which I did, then it didn't login and instead went to the screen it normally shows when the thin client fails to boot.
<dgroos> that's it.
<sbalneav> So, the users login is hosed is what you're saying?
<dgroos> hmmm... not sure how to answer that.
<dgroos> do you mean that if I tried to login as that user again, I wouldn't be able to?
<dgroos> it could be.  I think you are right.  I could try and login through ssh w/his user info.  would that be useful?  I don't think that's what you mean though.
<sbalneav> Well, I mean, removing something from the users home dir shouldn't cause the thin client to have trouble booting.
<sbalneav> so if you're not able to log in as that user, then the user itself's been hosed somehow.
<dgroos> I know that I will be able to log in after removing the fd directory, it worked fine before.
<dgroos> I'm not sure if he can log in *until* I remove that rogue directory.
<sbalneav> right, so remove it.
<dgroos> For sure.
<sbalneav> did you put the space before or after the name?
<dgroos> before
<sbalneav> and, please paste the sources.list that's in your chroot.
<dgroos> I'll get it.  I've got to go vpn a moment...
<sbalneav> k
<dgroos_> OK here it is: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/342326/  this is the source list at: /etc/apt/sources.list  this is NOT the source list at opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list.  Right?
<sbalneav> no, I want the one in /opt/ltsp...
<dgroos_> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/342329/  Shouldn't it be the same?
<sbalneav> well ideally.
<sbalneav> did you update the packages in the chroot and rebuild?  because stgraber fixed this bug I thought.
<dgroos> ahhh... update in the --chroot--?  how again does one do that?
<dgroos> isn't it just sudo apt-get upate/upgrade then sudo ltsp-update-image?
<sbalneav> Should be.
<sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<dgroos> I did do that, then.  You aren't saying chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 is some command?
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> that's how you switch into the chroot
<sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<sbalneav> apt-get update
<sbalneav> apt-get upgrade
<sbalneav> exit
<sbalneav> ltsp-update-image
<dgroos> Do I sudo to get into chroot? su?
<sbalneav> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<sbalneav> Looks like *SOMEONE* hasn't been reading the docs :)
<dgroos> My brain is basically spaghetti now, actually for some time :)
<sbalneav> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot
<sbalneav> That's probably your problem.  the fix is in the chroot
<sbalneav> so if you haven't updated the chroot, you haven't picked up stgrabers fix yet.
<dgroos> Thanks for all this.  I'll do it tonight and have it ready for tomorrow morning.
<dgroos> I'm going to write this into my blog--I'll probably find I already wrote it a year ago :(  should have anyway.
<sbalneav> dgroos: Where's yer blog?
<dgroos> Well, it's in a similar state to my brain, but here it is... http://groosd.blogspot.com
<dgroos> I tried to do the above procedure but got these errors: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/342343/
<sbalneav> got a valid resolv.conf in your chroot?
<dgroos> I'm looking at the docs link and see it says a couple of different things for example it says to 'mount -t proc proc /proc  it also talks about...
<dgroos> I'll check
<dgroos> looks like there are lots of /home/username/cow/etc/resolv.conf is that right?
<dgroos> and I see there is one in the opt/ltsp/i386/etc/resolv.conf
<dgroos> check this latter one?
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> since, when you're in the chroot command, that's the one it's going to use.
<dgroos> right.  makes sense.
<sbalneav> basically, you should cp /etc/resolv.conf /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/resolv.conf
<dgroos> checked it out. it's wack.
<sbalneav> there you go.
<dgroos> it's got the ip of when I had it in my house this summer!
<dgroos> for nameserver, what do I put?
<sbalneav> basically, you should cp /etc/resolv.conf /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/resolv.conf
<dgroos> Much better!
<dgroos> still some errors--GPG errors-- NO_PUBKEY
<sbalneav> that;s fine, it should still upgrade the packages.
<sbalneav> so the update then the upgrade
<sbalneav> and when it's done, type "exit"
<dgroos> Great.  It's in process... again, thanks a bundle.  btw--did you see your name on the blog?
<sbalneav> No, lemme look
<sbalneav> Was it something like "That Fr*ggin sbalneav *sshole..." :)
<dgroos> well, I used exclamation marks instead of asterisks ;)
<dgroos> Actually, as you can see I've not done much of anything on the blog since mid summer I'm so busy chasing my tail, but there is the 'lick and a promise' registered there :)
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> so when the update's done, then do the exit, ltsp-update-image, and voila
<dgroos> am doing now... there were a few errors hope not big ones...
<sbalneav> quick way to tell is if you retry the upgrade
<sbalneav> if there's nothing left to upgrade then you're ok
<dgroos> I'll check after the image is done updating...
<dgroos> said this when I tried to update-upgrade: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/342380/
<dgroos> and said this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/342384/ when I said "Y" to the upgrade...
<sbalneav> ok, so exit out of the chroot
<sbalneav> export LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false
<sbalneav> sorry, do this first
<sbalneav> sudo -i
<sbalneav> export LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false
<sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<sbalneav> mount -t proc proc /proc
<sbalneav> apt-get upgrade
<sbalneav> it should finish
<sbalneav> umount /proc
<sbalneav> exit
<sbalneav> then rebuild
<dgroos> doing it... and said that mount: proc already mounted whe I gove the mount command...
<dgroos> *when I gave
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> so you had done the mount previously then?
<dgroos> no, not knowingly at least.
<sbalneav> do this
<sbalneav> cat /etc/ltsp_chroot
<sbalneav> what do you get
<dgroos> I'm still root... and I got 'no such file or directory'
<sbalneav> then you're NOT IN THE CHROOT!!!!!
<sbalneav> export LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false
<sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<sbalneav> mount -t proc proc /proc
<sbalneav> alt-get upgrade
<sbalneav> it should finish
<sbalneav> umount /proc
<sbalneav> exit
<sbalneav> I can't make this any simpler :)
<dgroos> I'm guessing alt-get is to be apt-get?
<sbalneav> yep
<dgroos> It went so smooooooth!  Nary a hiccup
<sbalneav> there you go.
<sbalneav> remember the umount
<sbalneav> then exit
<sbalneav> ltsp-update-image
<sbalneav> done.
<dgroos> got it and got it
<dgroos> now that yes.  Thanks for staying up and helping me through all of this.  I can't wait to fire up the thin clients tomorrow :)
<sbalneav> Well, that should fix the phantom disk eater for sure
<sbalneav> and a lot of other niggling problems as well.
<dgroos> for sure.
<sbalneav> Got sabayon bug database access today.
<sbalneav> Closed 30 some odd bugs for sabayon :)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<mhall119|work> morning
#edubuntu 2009-12-17
<rodrigoguate> saludos a todos, quisiera pedir ayuda, soy nuevo en ubuntu, y tengo un problema. el problema es que el internet se traba e incluso algunos programas como los juegos que trae ubunto tambine
<rodrigoguate> ayuda por favor
<HedgeMage> I'm sorry, I don't speak that much Spanish.
<HedgeMage> I understood "and I have a problem" and that it's with the internet...something about playing?
 * HedgeMage == lost.
<sbalneav> Evening all
<HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: is your Spanish any better than mine?
<sbalneav> My french is minimal
<sbalneav> My spanish is non-existant :(
<sbalneav> However, lets consult babelfish
<HedgeMage> I'd only been studying for a couple of weeks, then crossover office started having issues with Rosetta Stone, and I haven't had time to debug it.
<rodrigoguate> ok, i speak ingles
<rodrigoguate> my problem is
<rodrigoguate> my internet (mozilla firefox)
<sbalneav> What's it doing, or not doing?
<rodrigoguate> stand by, the desk turn blak and afther return
<rodrigoguate> i need help please
<HedgeMage> rodrigoguate: We will try to help, but we do not yet know what the problem is.
<sbalneav> rodrigoguate: Try #ubuntu-es
<sbalneav> That's the spanish ubuntu channel
<sbalneav> Gimme a sec, lemme see if I can drag someone from there over here.
<rodrigoguate> thanks everibody
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: Good idea, because unless he wants to be introduced to my family, hear what I'm wearing, or get a play-by-play of my son playing with the dog, I don't have the vocabulary to be of use!
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> I've asked in #ubuntu-es
<HedgeMage> cool
<rodrigoguate> going to ubuntu-es
<sbalneav> rodrigoguate: There are some people in #ubuntu-es.  I've asked them to come here, but you might want to pop in there, as well.
<sbalneav> ah, ok
<sbalneav> rodrigoguate: dzup is from #ubuntu-es
<dzup> rodrigoguate: vete al canal #edubuntu
<sbalneav> dzup: Thanks for coming
<dzup> nop
<sbalneav> rodrigoguate> saludos a todos, quisiera pedir ayuda, soy nuevo en ubuntu, y tengo un problema. el problema es que el internet se traba e incluso algunos  programas como los juegos que trae ubunto tambine
<dzup> sbalneav: he mean: hi everyone, i need help, am new, blablabla, he has issues with internet conecctions and even some programs hang like games, etc
<dzup> but let me asking to join #ubuntu-es
<dzup> rodrigoguate: escribe /join #ubuntu-es
<sbalneav> I suspect he may be having trouble, he's been silent for a couple of minutes
<HedgeMage> dzup: thanks :)
<dzup> nop
<sbalneav> My french is better, I had 9 years of that in school, we don't get taught a lot of Spanish in Canada. :)
<dzup> heh, i see, i used to like in canada not long ego
<HedgeMage> My first language is English.  I'm somewhere between conversant and fluent in ASL.  My Latin is rusty, but I squeak by with it.  I have about 3 weeks of Spanish study under my belt.
<sbalneav> From visiting Brazil 3 times, I know enough Portugese to order beer :)
<sbalneav> Obrigado and de nada :)
<HedgeMage> roflmao
<dzup> lol
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> My wife's chinese, so I've got a smattering of Cantonese as well :)
<sbalneav> mm-goy, bay bouy bing soy :)
<sbalneav> Sun in fi loc
<sbalneav> kaboom
<sbalneav> Yep, his internet's giving him problems :)
<sbalneav> back
<HedgeMage> wb
<sbalneav> Morning all
#edubuntu 2009-12-18
 * Ahmuck-Sr drops a pin
<cprofitt> dinda: what was the 'Spanish' success story for education
<sbalneav> Evening all
<cprofitt> hello
<MendoCino> Happy Hanucah Brothers
<MendoCino> Jo reggelt dicsoseges testvereim
<cheeko> is ther any linux alternatives for teracopy which increases the speed of copy in windows
<BigDaddy> hi
<BigDaddy> anyone here tryed to set up thinclients in edubuntu?
<Ahmuck-Sr> yes
<Ahmuck-Sr> how are you?
<BigDaddy> i am well...and you?
<BigDaddy> have you found it to be a relitively painless process?
<Ahmuck-Sr> download ubuntu-alternate, install ubuntu + ltsp on a server, upon bootup, "sudo aptitude install edubuntu-desktop"
<BigDaddy> for simple web and open office uses...have you found older, perhaps p2 systems to be adiquate
<BigDaddy> *adequate
<Ahmuck-Sr> server side?
<Ahmuck-Sr> or client side?
<BigDaddy> client side
<Ahmuck-Sr> it's hard for me to say.  i'm using p3, but i may have some p2 at 500mhz?
<Ahmuck-Sr> i just throw them in and make sure they have enough mem
<Ahmuck-Sr> your problem is going to be firefox/flash
<BigDaddy> this is my problem...I am needing to establish internet based learning centers throughout Africa...with the price of internet access i need to reduce my cost of equipment...thinclients seem to be the way to go...one p4 for the server and 4 or 5 lower end machines for clients
<Ahmuck-Sr> any reason for not shipping newer clients?
<Ahmuck-Sr> what kind of cost for the server/client are you looking for?
<Ahmuck-Sr> why ltsp?  why not stand alone machines?
<alkisg1> BigDaddy: what are the client specs?
<alkisg1> BigDaddy: The minimum requirements would be something like 64 RAM, 200-500 MHz CPU...
<Ahmuck-Sr> heh, my next suggestion would be to work with alkisg, and sbalneav
<Ahmuck-Sr> maybe nubae
<Ahmuck-Sr> BigDaddy: where u based out of?
<BigDaddy> Africa
<BigDaddy> The reason for the older computers is simply that of $$.  not only that of purchase but also the problems acociated with importing a large number of newer machines
<BigDaddy> im not familure with alkisg, and sbalneav
<BigDaddy> or nubae
<Ahmuck-Sr> i'm working with a group who is exporting p3 to africa
<BigDaddy> really?
<Ahmuck-Sr> this is why i asked.  looking at power considerations it's been determined that lcd screens are cheaper to run
<Ahmuck-Sr> and small form factor
<BigDaddy> definitely...i just sent 60 LCD screens and p4 machines from the states over
<Ahmuck-Sr> back to ltsp, alkisg probally has the better experience with lower end machines
<BigDaddy> that was my same conclutions...well that and the issue of picture tube alignment after a month long journey on a ship!
<BigDaddy> are we still talking within ubuntu?
<BigDaddy> or edubuntu?
<Ahmuck-Sr> ?
<BigDaddy> you just mentioned alkisg
<BigDaddy> i asked if that was something from within ubuntu(edubuntu) or if we were talking a different os
<Ahmuck-Sr> alkisg is a user :)  here on IRC
<BigDaddy> haha...sorry!
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Ahmuck-Sr> BigDaddy: sooo, looking to expand usability from old machines?
<BigDaddy> yes. my goal at the end is to lower my cost of equipment by utilizing gear which is as cheep as possible
<BigDaddy> i have an almost never ending supply of older machines in the states and if i can figure out a way to utilize them in place of newer, more expensive ones i will be able to increase my number of distance learning centers tramendously!
<alkisg> BigDaddy: well, for simple office usage one server can power up dozens of ancient PCs
<BigDaddy> that is what i was thinking...im glad to hear that i am thinking correctly
<Ahmuck-Sr> BigDaddy: may i inquire what organization your with?
<BigDaddy> Yes, Church of the Nazarene
<Ahmuck-Sr> i run a small lab, and open office, is not a problem at all
<Ahmuck-Sr> BigDaddy: care to private message?
<BigDaddy> sure
#edubuntu 2009-12-19
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Ahmuck-Sr> hi sbalneav
#edubuntu 2009-12-20
<sbalneav> Evening all
<mhall119> evening
<dgroos> Good (early) Morning All
<dgroos> Well, I'm heading south in an hour, but wanted to wish all a happy solstice or christmas or hanaka or whatever you might celebrate at this time of year.  Nice being with you.  David
#edubuntu 2010-12-20
<highvoltage> good morning everyone
<mhall119> morning
<thanhhuy> #ltsp
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> hey mgariepy
#edubuntu 2010-12-21
<highvoltage> mhall119: what was that font you suggessted we install in edubuntu by default? I noted it in multiple places, but I also added more fonts to the list so now I can't remember which one it is :)
<mhall119> Andika
<mhall119> though I asked about it in #ubuntu-accessibility, and some there thought it maybe wasn't as helpful as advertised
<highvoltage> hmm, that certainly sounds familiar bit it's on none of my lists :)
<highvoltage> *adds*
#edubuntu 2010-12-23
<Tricen> Quick question dealing with Edubuntu's LiveCD feature
<Tricen> How do I access the "Unity Shell" while only running off the cd?
<Tricen> and also, how do I find Italc?
<Tricen> I wanted to try both of these before installing...
#edubuntu 2010-12-24
<goobagoob> question: My edubuntu installation has been running for quite a while, and is sitting on the last frame of the installation slide show promising me that it will be done soon. Is it normal for edubuntu to sit on that screen with no apparent activity for a long time?
<goobagoob> I am trying to install it on a new computer for my kid for xmas
<HedgeMage> What's "a long time" ?
<goobagoob> 15 minutes, at least
<goobagoob> the progress bar is about 3/4 of the way across
<goobagoob> I guess I'll download and install ubuntu and then install the edubuntu packages via apt
<HedgeMage> Yeah, That sounds a little odd, but I don't use the edubuntu installer, so I can't give specific advice.
<goobagoob> ah well, I was hoping to avoid doing via apt
<goobagoob> best laid plans of mice...
<dgroos_> Good Morning Edubuntistas
<dgroos_> Hi?
<alkisg> Hi dgroos_ :)
<alkisg> Not a very active channel today :)
<dgroos_> Hi alkisg!  Thought I'd throw a bit of chatter out there :)
<dgroos_> How's the son?  Just one?
<alkisg> 2 girls and 1 son, all fine
<alkisg> U? all ok?
<dgroos_> Pretty good, just cleaning up my desk at home :)  Fiesta tonight so gotta clean things up.  Age range on the next generation?
<alkisg> 10/8/4
<dgroos_> Have a great evening/night all! :)
#edubuntu 2010-12-26
<NinjaCat> hi.I`m having a problem setting up gpxe thin client with the ltsp server, what happens is that on the client if i login from the ctrl+alt+F1 window terminal it logs in, but in the grafical interface it doesnt, says password is wrong, thats because it is loggin in in the server accounts instead of the chrooted ones(saw this in the log). How do i fix this?
<NinjaCat> also......when i save files in the terminal in a user area, the changes doenst apply to the server, if i restart the files are gone
 * mhall119 smacks highvoltage for calling 29 'old'
<highvoltage> oh? how 'old' are you then?
<mhall119> 29 :P
<highvoltage> mhall119: well, if it makes you feel any better, stgraber is also getting old, he turned 21 yesterday
<alkisg> #$%^&* shut up kiddos it's holidays don't talk about age :P
<phirestalker> I am looking for a suite of software that will allow me to keep track of progress of the user of the learning software, without using ltsp, any ideas?
<phirestalker> I've tried google but can't seem to get the right terms
<phirestalker> they should make irc stand for internet resting channel :P
<phirestalker> Maybe it is only ubuntu because back in the 90s people who were in the chat room were actually in the chat room not sleeping
<alkisg> Being unfriendly is a nice way to get help :) Merry xmas all
<dgroos> 29? 21?  So that makes me exactly equal to mhall119 PLUS stgraber!  Wow!  My cool factor just increased!  or does it work by subtractions... ;)
<mseales> Is this an appropriate place to ask for help in creating an Edubunut Live CD?
<mseales> Or an Edubuntu one, even...
<mseales> I can only seem to find the DVD ISO full install image, and not one for the Live CD?
<mseales> Speaking of which, is the LiveCD misnamed and it's really a DVD?
<stgraber> everything is on the DVD
<stgraber> Edubuntu is too big to fit on a CD
<mseales> I see. So the LiveCD comes in the same ISO image as the main installable one?
<stgraber> yep
<stgraber> the DVD contains the live environment and everything is then installed from it. Just like the Ubuntu CD
<stgraber> we no longer have a text installer, everything is graphical
<mseales> Apologies, I was a Fedora guy - this is my first foray into ubuntu land...
<dgroos> Welcome!
<mseales> as well as my first experience with a live CD, believe it or not
<mseales> thanks, dgroos!
<dgroos> The live DVD works pretty slick, have fun.
<mseales> so, I guess I burn the image and then then boot from the dvd and some option asks me if I want to use the Live image or install? Is that it?
<stgraber> yep
<dgroos> BTW happy b-day +1 stgraber :D
<stgraber> dgroos: thanks
<mseales> Cool - the kids are only 5, so we'll be building ubuntu brand loyalty from here on out, I guess... :)
<mseales> If it works out for them, I promise to come back and help fix some bugs...
<mseales> Anyway, thanks for the help. Bye.
<highvoltage> sheesh, every time I look away from the channel there's activity. it's like it just waits for me to look away :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, I always wait for you to put your laptop away to start speaking in this channel ;)
<dgroos> High hivoltage :)
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> hey dgroos
<dgroos> highvoltage: I saw one of your earlier blog posts about snow.  Still finding it interesting?  I love it though I did recently throw out my back removing it from our driveway :)
<dgroos> the pile on the right you see in the picture is about 6 feet tall, and it goes quite a ways back! http://picasaweb.google.com/djgroos/OtherStuff#5555100540591309474
<highvoltage> dgroos: it's still kind of interesting, it keeps changing
<highvoltage> dgroos: not particularly fond of removing it from all over my car everytime I want to go somewhere, but besides that the cold weather is a lot better than I expected
#edubuntu 2011-12-19
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<MrChrisDruif> Aloha mgariepy
#edubuntu 2011-12-20
<highvoltage> good morning mgariepy
<mgariepy> hello highvoltage
<Barco> I have a weird 3G problem, My adsl is down unexpectantly. Was able to connect via 3g some months ago. Now it seems although it connects dns does not resolve i.e. no internet available on the browser.
<Barco> can anyone point me in the right direction please?
#edubuntu 2011-12-21
<mhall119> highvoltage: stgraber: is Edubuntu using Unity in 12.04?
<stgraber> yep
<mhall119> stgraber: I've started learning how to write Unity lenses and scopes, can you think of anything that would be useful for Edubuntu?
 * mhall119 really wants to start contributing again
<Pete___> Hi I have a question regarding installation of edubuntu
<Pete___> I am installing on a new computer dual boot with Windows 7
<Pete___> I have created a new partition of approx 500gb
<Pete___> when i get to the step of 'Allocate drive space by dragging the divider below'
<Pete___> I am not sure what to do?
<Pete___> can someone help
<Pete___> by default it is creating two partitions of approx 262gb each
<Pete___> one for 'Files (3.2GB' and one for Edubuntu (ext4)
#edubuntu 2011-12-22
<alkisg> Good morning
<highvoltage> good morning alkisg!
<highvoltage> (or afternoon now, at least)
#edubuntu 2011-12-23
<frankenstein> yo.
#edubuntu 2011-12-24
<d-draegon> i am trying to find more info on edubuntu, distrowatch did not have much info at all
<d-draegon> tell me why edubuntu over doudou linux, qimo or skolelinux
<d-draegon> can anyone give me more info on edubuntu? distrowatch did not have very much to go on
<d-draegon> tell me why edubuntu over doudou linux, qimo or skolelinux
<mhall119> well edubuntu has had a new release in the past 2 years
<mhall119> a situation I hope to fix for Qimo over the holidays
<mhall119> but you're not even still around
#edubuntu 2012-12-17
<camaro> Does anyone here keep up with updates on a daily basis (as in what each one is supposed to do or fix) with 10.04?  Where can I get information about them?  For example, today it did something with the "flash plugin".
<tsimpson> you can use "apt-get changelog <package>" to see the changes
<camaro> Yes, however, is there any sort of place that lists what the changes do (I mean what they "fix")?
<tsimpson> the changelog should tell you, or at least have a bug number you can look at
<tsimpson> they usually look like (LP: #NNNNNN), you just go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/NNNNNN to read it
<camaro> Thank you tsimpson!
<LaserJock> hello Edubuntu land!
<highvoltage> salutations, LaserJock
<highvoltage> LaserJock: did you see the recent irony? for a change, edubuntu released an alpha 1 and ubuntu didn't :)
<LaserJock> lol, I saw Edubuntu had an Alpha 1, didn't notice Ubuntu didn't, that's a switch
<LaserJock> highvoltage: so things are going well?
<highvoltage> for edubuntu, I think so
#edubuntu 2012-12-18
<camaro> Does anyone know what the following error means?  I got it while doing apt-get upgrade
<camaro> Processing triggers for python-central ... Setting up apport (1.13.3-0ubuntu2.2) ... start: Job failed to start
<camaro> I suppose there are several reasons why it "failed to start".  What I want to know is how do I find out why it "failed to start".  I am assuming it was "apport".  Another question:  What is apport?
#edubuntu 2012-12-21
<bloodearnest> ing
<gbaman> hey guys, got a quick question, i have a rather complicated edubuntu install for testing with and need a little help :)
<gbaman> anyone around?
<gbaman> I am trying to install ubuntu on an external HDD which already has data on it on 2 seperate partitions then i have my 3rd edubuntu partition. I have a 20gb partiton for edubuntu testing allocated and just need to install it now, but what is the best way to do this, taking into account the bootloader as that seems to be causing problems
<alkisg> gbaman: what other OSes do you have?
<gbaman> no other OSs on the HDD, just data
<gbaman> an HFS+ partiton and a fat32 partition
<alkisg> So what is complicated about it?
<alkisg> HFS? mac os?
<gbaman> when i tried to install it it complained grub counldnt be installed
<alkisg> Are you booted into the edubuntu live cd?
<gbaman> yes
<gbaman> well, pendrive
<gbaman> but yes
<alkisg> What's the output of sudo sfdisk -d ?
<alkisg> !pastebinit
<ubottu> pastebinit is the command-line equivalent of !pastebin - Command output, or other text can be redirected to pastebinit, which then reports an URL containing the output - To use pastebinit, install the Â« pastebinit Â» package from a package manager - Simple usage: command | pastebinit -b http://paste.ubuntu.com
<alkisg> !pastebin
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<alkisg> That one ^ :)
<alkisg> I.e. don't paste the output here if it's many lines... e.g. above 5
<gbaman> that would involve me rebooting into the actual try version, one sec
<gbaman> sfdisk -d did nothing
<alkisg> There's a sudo there too
<gbaman> there we go
<gbaman> one sec
<gbaman-edubuntu> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1454880/
<gbaman> the drive i am trying to install it onto is sdc
<gbaman> well, sdc3
<alkisg> Ah, it's GPT, not normal MBR
<alkisg> Try another tool: sudo fdisk -l
<alkisg> (btw how come you're using GPT? for mac?)
<gbaman-edubuntu> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1454884/
<gbaman> yes
<gbaman> my main machine is a mac
<gbaman> but also have a windows machine
<gbaman> which is why there is a fat32 partition on there
<alkisg> gbaman: fdisk doesn't support GPT disks either... so you'd need to install "parted" to check the disk layout
<alkisg> I'm guessing that the "embedding area" is too small for grub to be installed
<alkisg> Try asking in #grub
<gbaman-edubuntu> ..
<gbaman-edubuntu> ok
 * alkisg has never even seen a disk with a GPT table layout :-/
<gbaman> parted installed :)
<alkisg> sudo parted -l
<alkisg> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GRUB#GPT_specific_instructions
<alkisg> It sounds a bit complicated, so #grub would be your friend there
<alkisg> Or, you could just use an MBR-based disk
<gbaman-edubuntu> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1454894/
<alkisg> Check the wiki page above, it has instructions on what to do for grub-install to succeed
#edubuntu 2013-12-16
<limbe_> hello we install edubuntu with ltsp our clients are not pae now client does not start they need pae, some ides?
<dviper> Not sure of this is the right place to ask for adding programs, if not please direct me. But I was wondering if the community is in the capacity to add Ascalaph Designer, an advanced open source chemistry program that runs on windows, but its component application run on fedora and opensuse.
#edubuntu 2013-12-17
<forehand> I'm having trouble understanding what or how to set the gateway for a dhcp server.
<Guest42468> hello
#edubuntu 2013-12-19
<skaet_> highvoltage, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/Alpha1/Edubuntu has the template populated.
<skaet_> need to add specific Edubuntu bits (and make sure I didn't miss any references to Kubuntu, since I cloned it from there).
<highvoltage> ah, thanks skaet_!
<skaet_> highvoltage, you're welcome.  :)   Let me know when you're done.
#edubuntu 2014-12-15
<Yassin-H> hi :) i need shell script that select file to display a given directory parameter files belonging to the "root", which have been changed yesterday, and whose size is greater than 10M byte.
<Yassin-H> hi any one here
<Yassin-H> ?
#edubuntu 2014-12-18
<Kizzy> i accept terms and conditions
<Kizzy> hello
#edubuntu 2015-12-19
<ezkk> hello. can i ask where to seek help with, dual monitor setup in xubuntu ?
#edubuntu 2016-12-19
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (yakkety-proposed/main) [0.7.8-49-g9e904bb-0ubuntu1~16.10.1 => 0.7.8-68-gca3ae67-0ubuntu1~16.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2016-12-20
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [0.7.8-49-g9e904bb-0ubuntu1~16.04.2 => 0.7.8-49-g9e904bb-0ubuntu1~16.04.3] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2016-12-23
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (yakkety-proposed/main) [2.4.1-0ubuntu1 => 2.4.1-0ubuntu1.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2016-12-24
<Roisns> Hello everyone
<Roisns> Noob here :)
<Roisns> I'm in the middle of building an Ubuntu laptop for my neice
<Roisns> I found it really hard to find suitable reporting software....and am hoping to make use of edubuntu for this
<Roisns> What should I be looking at in edubuntu to get usage reports, filters, etc....
<Roisns> Any advice would be greatly appreciated
<Roisns> For that matter.... a good security software with keylogger for Ubuntu would even suffice
<ScottO_> i was going to dual boot edubuntu with windows and the option didnt show up for manually choosing alongside and editing the partitions. Is this something thats hidden or not detected?
#edubuntu 2017-12-18
<bosq> hello
<bosq> i want to ask something about ubuntu
#edubuntu 2017-12-21
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [2.20-0ubuntu4~16.04.1 => 2.21-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (artful-backports/main) [2.20-0ubuntu4~17.10.1 => 2.21-0ubuntu1~17.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (zesty-backports/main) [2.20-0ubuntu4~17.04.1 => 2.21-0ubuntu1~17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-initramfs-tools (xenial-proposed/main) [0.27ubuntu1.4 => 0.27ubuntu1.5] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-initramfs-tools (artful-proposed/main) [0.39ubuntu1 => 0.39ubuntu1.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-initramfs-tools (zesty-proposed/main) [0.35ubuntu2 => 0.35ubuntu2.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-12-22
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [2.21-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 2.21-0ubuntu2~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (zesty-backports/main) [2.21-0ubuntu1~17.04.1 => 2.21-0ubuntu2~17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (artful-backports/main) [2.21-0ubuntu1~17.10.1 => 2.21-0ubuntu2~17.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-12-20
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxcfs (xenial-backports/main) [3.0.2-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 3.0.3-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [3.0.2-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 3.0.3-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
