#ubuntu-phone 2012-01-09
<MobileDruif> sladen: same question ;)
<sladen> MobileDruif: eh?
<sladen> reminds me of watching  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_Date_%28UK_TV_series%29  years ago
<MobileDruif> Right...
<sladen> "same question to number 3"
<MobileDruif> Ghehe
<MobileDruif> Can there be anything said about this project now your all chatty again in ubuntu-tv?
<sladen> MobileDruif: I don't know what work yourself/others have done (Canonical are not the only people working on Ubuntu).  People have been busy since UDS taking those ideas and trying to get something together for CES (Ubuntu TV)
<sladen> MobileDruif: since a phone is a bigger problem, it's going to take longer, at whatever point there are enough ideas to start looking at something
<MobileDruif> Agreed, but I was wondering if there was any news from the Canonical side
<popey> Yes, there is news, news of the TV Concept \o/
<MobileDruif> Btw, tv is also massively different from normal computing ;)
<MobileDruif> popey: you smart ass ;)
<popey> I'm serious. We're madly busy on stuff. Phone is a distraction right now.
<MobileDruif> I understand, but I thought there might be multiple teams at Canonical. So my question was also serious.
<sladen> people have been busy making cake.  Eat it.  Dissect it, play with it.  Enjoy da taste
<sladen> yes, I know ice-cream *and* cake would be lovely, but you get fat quickly, and there aren't enough cooks around to make both at once anyway
<MobileDruif> Okay, okay! I get the point :)
#ubuntu-phone 2012-01-13
<MrChrisDruif> Did the one starting the suggestion for the renaming join this channel by any chance?
<mhall119> renaming what?
<MrChrisDruif> mhall119; this project. Aren't you subscribed to the mailing list?
<mhall119> maybe
<mhall119> MrChrisDruif: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone ?
 * MrChrisDruif checks
<mhall119> I should probably make better mail filters, rather than dumping everything to the 'Launchpad' label
<MrChrisDruif> Yup
<mhall119> subscribed
<mhall119> why a rename?
<MrChrisDruif> Some Wayne suggested this project to be renamed in favor of Ubuntu Mobile
<MrChrisDruif> And also put Ubuntu Tablet underneath it
<MrChrisDruif> Merging the two
<MrChrisDruif> I'd sooner suggest merging Tablet and normal desktop
<mhall119> I think your idea is closer to the user requirements for such devices
<MrChrisDruif> I've said it before and I'll say it again; Unity as is only needs refinements for touch enabled devices
<MrChrisDruif> I'll reply to them with my opinions...
<MrChrisDruif> They shouldn't waste their (and my) energy on the naming of the project
<imnichol> Someone on http://planet.ubuntu.com mentioned that it seems that people like two-word names, and I tend to agree
<imnichol> Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Phone, Ubuntu Tablet, Ubuntu Server, Ubuntu TV
<imnichol> It's a good system, helps branding while also giving information about what the thing in question does.
<MrChrisDruif> Yup
<MrChrisDruif> *Just* Phone might be anything
<imnichol> Sorry, I don't understand what that sentence means
<MrChrisDruif> imnichol; I'm going to do a thorough respond to the mailing-list activity of today
<imnichol> I woke up with like 40 messages total, I think maybe 10 of those were from the phone mailing list
<MrChrisDruif> Well...if this project was call *Phone* (or *Mobile*) that could be...anything related to phones. Now we're clearly linked to Ubuntu
<imnichol> Yes
<mika___> hi there
<mika___> just returned from ubuntu engineering rally in budapest
<mika___> noticed the mailing list discussion as well
<mika___> soâ¦ from canonical design perspective (at least) the Ubuntu Phone is a user and parter facing term
<mika___> technically mobile platforms are very similar, perhaps identical even
<MrChrisDruif> mika___; whether or not how canonical views it, tablet is more desktop than phone in my eyes
<MrChrisDruif> Current Unity is usable on a tablet, I only heard there are some improvements to be made apparently to make it more "Precise"?
#ubuntu-phone 2013-01-07
<akiva-mobile> so I've started learning how to program, and I want to do some more. What language is best to learn for making new ubuntu phone apps?
<akiva-mobile>  I heard C ++, is this true?
<k1l_> qml
<akiva-mobile> What is qml?
<dwatkins> "QML (Qt Meta Language or Qt Modeling Language[2]) is a JavaScript-based, declarative language for designing user interfaceâcentric applications"
<akiva-mobile> Is it good?
<Transhumanist> It's what Ubuntu Phone uses
<Transhumanist> so while, yes, it's a good choice, it's also somewhat your only choice
<Transhumanist> If you find jumping straight into QML a little bit scary, perhaps try coding some web pages in JavaScript with XHTML and CSS. That would probably give you a good feel for QML.
<Transhumanist> I recommend against learning programming by learning C++. I think languages like JavaScript and Python are a better choice.
<Transhumanist> Here is a Qt tutorial: doc.qt.digia.com/qt/qml-tutorial1.html
<Transhumanist> it should give you an idea of what QML looks like
<chriadam|away> try http://doc-snapshot.qt-project.org/5.0/qtquick/qtquick-applicationdevelopers.html
<chriadam|away> for more about the QML language, see http://doc-snapshot.qt-project.org/5.0/qtqml/qtqml-index.html
<chriadam|away> for more about the QtQuick graphical types, see http://doc-snapshot.qt-project.org/5.0/qtquick/qtquick-index.html
<arij> hey
<arij> any idea if the galaxy nexus image will work on the new nexus 4?
<Rosenzweig> I wish there was more information on phone app development.
<Rosenzweig> It seems kind of barren but that's expected without even an image to boot with.
<bobweaver> Rosenzweig,  what would help you if you knew ?
<Rosenzweig> It would help me get started on say... programming an Ubuntu Phone game with OpenGL and C++.
<Rosenzweig> I saw one tutorial for an "Ubuntu App" with Quickly and another with QML but I'm not sure what the difference is between an Ubuntu App and an Ubuntu Phone App.
<bobweaver> Rosenzweig,  You can make any C++ declaritive view and wxspose it to qml
<k1l_> Rosenzweig: you saw that? http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone/app-ecosystem
<Rosenzweig> Does that mean that Ubuntu Linux executables run natively on the phone? Does that mean that Ubuntu Apps are Python only (and thus don't require compilation)? If they're not then is a phone compiler available for compiled languages?
<Rosenzweig> It just seems awfully vaue.
<Rosenzweig> vague*
<Rosenzweig> I saw the App Ecosystem link, k1l_.
<Rosenzweig> I actually lurked around the mobile/development place for a bit and I haven't found anything "concrete."
<bobweaver> Rosenzweig, http://doc.qt.digia.com/qt/qml-extending-tutorial-index.html     open gl stuff you can use shaders lib
<bobweaver> http://doc.qt.digia.com/qt/declarative-shadereffects.html
<Rosenzweig> Oh, so C++ in QML is compiled within the QML toolset?
<Rosenzweig> I was more interested in possibly avoiding QML and instead simply compiling my C++ application with some sort of Ubuntu  Phone compiler. I guess the Ubuntu Phone devs want to streamline development into the QT toolsets.
<Rosenzweig> I got no clue, unfortunately.
<bobweaver> Rosenzweig,  you make you backend and stuff like that in c++ (if you choose) then just expose each element and use qml to make the interface
<Rosenzweig> Ultimately, I would want to do something like that.
<Rosenzweig> Use QML/Javascript/Python/WhatEver for the UI and gamecode maybe.
<Rosenzweig> And then have actual low level graphic code in C++.
<Rosenzweig> Though I was wondering if you had to use the qt window library or if you could use something else... for example.
<bobweaver> Rosenzweig,  you have played around with the example "SameGame" ?
<Rosenzweig> They make it sound like you don't have to.
<Rosenzweig> Not yet, bobweaver.
<Rosenzweig> What is it? Or more importantly, where is it?
<bobweaver> qt can call in all sorts of windowing libs and you can also just set cmake to  call them in in plugins file
<bobweaver> Rosenzweig,  it is a game in qt/qml
<bobweaver> install qtcreator and it is under examples
<bobweaver> Rosenzweig, http://doc.qt.digia.com/qt/qml-advtutorial.html
<Rosenzweig> I'm assuming this should technically work natively on the Ubuntu Phone too, right
<bobweaver> as far as windowing not yet sure what Ubuntu phone uses but I am sure that that news is going to come soon !
<bobweaver> Rosenzweig,  this is also cool I think  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FjuPn7MXMs
<Rosenzweig> I'm familiar with QT fairly little or any window library in particular.
<Rosenzweig> My games use very minimal window libraries like gwfl
<Rosenzweig> gflw
<Rosenzweig> The most window work I usually do is initialize the window, give it some properties via some few variables, and I attach the OpenGL context.
<Rosenzweig> So, as you can expect, I'm pretty clueless.
<Rosenzweig> That's kind of cool. He's in a 3D world and yet he's able to access console and a web page.
<Rosenzweig> Or not a web page, but some kind of GUI window.
<Rosenzweig> And QT creator!
<Rosenzweig> I wouldn't necessarily want to walk around to my windows for day to day use, but that might be interesting for a game.
<Rosenzweig> Instead of having to create a window library or adding heavy content, you can simply use some of the features of QT.
<bobweaver> yeah there could be better I just like that because it is wayland lol
<Rosenzweig> Fun stuff, but I hope that more info comes out on the Ubuntu Phone and app development specifically for it. I'm going back to college tomorrow and this would make a good side project.
<bobweaver> QT5_GUI and widgets is that what you are talking about or are you talking about adding header files to plugin then exporting that to make your own qtlib so that you can say like import MyWindowThingy 1.0
<Rosenzweig> Interesting. What kind of overhead exists in these plugins?
<Rosenzweig> Is it particularly resource heavy?
<Rosenzweig> This just all seems so creative and eye-opening in general.
<Transhumanist> <Rosenzweig> Fun stuff, but I hope that more info comes out on the Ubuntu Phone and app development specifically for it. I'm going back to college tomorrow and this would make a good side project.
<Transhumanist> these are my plans too
<Rosenzweig> Transhumanists, what's your major?
<Rosenzweig> Mine is economics so this is off my studies.
<Transhumanist> I'd like to port the current spaced repetition vocabulary learning app I'm working on in Android over to Ubuntu Phone.
<Transhumanist> software engineering =P
<Rosenzweig> Well this is actually related to your major. You know what I do? I study austrian economics.
<Rosenzweig> But I am minoring in Computational Science next year.
<Rosenzweig> And this project or what ever project will allow me to skip one or two programming courses.
<Transhumanist> they'll give you credit eh? You're lucky
<Transhumanist> so have you done linear algebra yet?
<Rosenzweig> I took Calculus back in high school.
<Transhumanist> Yeah, that's important. But linear algebra is unrelated to it.
<Rosenzweig> I am hoping to take a few math courses in the latter 2-3 years of college.
<Rosenzweig> Of course I've taken algebra.
<jo-erlend> I haven't had anything to do with C++ in about ten years, and I've only slightly played with Qt using Python. I'd like to get a few good books to get me up to date. Any suggestions?
<Rosenzweig> And linear algebra in particular.
<Rosenzweig> It isn't a particularly hard subject.
<Rosenzweig> Hmm, there's this great book on Python that I learned programming with.
<Rosenzweig> http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/
<Rosenzweig> I think that was it.
<Transhumanist> I enjoyed it. But most people do actually find linear algebra hard. I guess the concept of a vector space is fairly abstract.
<Transhumanist> So we can do the grunt work in Python?
<Rosenzweig> They find vectors difficult?
<Rosenzweig> Vector Calculus is difficult.
<Transhumanist> Vector spaces, not vectors.
<Rosenzweig> Whoops. :)
<Rosenzweig> That's not necessarily hard either.
<Rosenzweig> I used vector spaces all the time in game programming.
<Rosenzweig> Especially with OpenGL with matrices and all.
<jo-erlend> If I have to replace Vala/GTK with something new, it won't be Python, but rather C++.
<Transhumanist> Yeah, that gives you a great intuitive feel for linear algebra
<Rosenzweig> It's easier if you can apply it to something.
<M4rtinK> you can do the heavy math with numpy :)
<Rosenzweig> I loved GLM.
<Rosenzweig> Greatest OpenGL Math library ever for C++.
<Rosenzweig> It's just werks.
<Transhumanist> humpy is rocking
<Transhumanist> *numpy
<Rosenzweig> It* jo-erlend, in that case.
<Transhumanist> I'll happy profess to not being good at C++. I prefer C and Python.
<jo-erlend> Rosenzweig?
<Rosenzweig> I'm grabbing a few books.
<Transhumanist> So it's nice to here I can work with QML and Python
<Transhumanist> *hear
<Rosenzweig> Accelerated C++ is great along with Addison Wesley's C++ books, Effective C++ (which gives a good condensed info on C++ for those familiar with C, C++ Primer Plus, and O'Reily probably has a good C++ book.
<Rosenzweig> Honestly though, there are plenty of online documentation on the language.
<Rosenzweig> You could probably find all you need just by googling "C++ tutorial" and clicking any link on the front page.
<jo-erlend> right. But I like the top-down approach.
<Rosenzweig> Top down approach?
<Transhumanist> I'd just type c++ into Amazon and order the books by user rating
<Transhumanist> then read some reviews to see if the people reviewing it are noobs or pros
<Rosenzweig> I used to be a pro.
<jo-erlend> Rosenzweig, I read through the books even if I know the subject.
<Rosenzweig> But then collee started.
<Transhumanist> computer languages are unfortunately like natural languages: use it or lose it
<Rosenzweig> college* jo-erlend, what do you want then?
<Rosenzweig> Natural languages are harder in my opinion.
<Transhumanist> Speaking of, it's German practice time
<Transhumanist> I agree
<Rosenzweig> My Hebrew is shaky but I learned a lot.
<Rosenzweig> It's nice motivation when you can look back and say, "I know much more than I did before."
<Transhumanist> My problem is I forget how much of a noob I was before, and assume I am still a noob, even when I've become a pro at something. It's good for pushing myself to become an expert in something, but it's bad for motivation, but I don't grant myself any "I'm kind of awesome at this now" moments, and get a little down.
<jo-erlend> I guess I'll start by reading up on c++11 and then start investigating QML when I'm comfortable.
<Transhumanist> Why C++, jo-erlend, out of curiousity?
<jo-erlend> Transhumanist, because of Qt. If it's written in C++ and is object oriented, it'll probably be more comfortable than C.
<Transhumanist> Python is pretty snappy these days. Especially since a lot of the libs are already written in C++ (e.g. numpy, SDL). I was recommending it, not C, I guess.
<jo-erlend> Python is a very nice language, but it is also very slow and hungry for resources.
<M4rtinK> I've written a couple of mobile Python apps
<M4rtinK> without issues with performance so far :)
<Transhumanist> That's not very true anymore, jo-erlend.
<jo-erlend> it really is. And it always will be.
<M4rtinK> it depends
<jo-erlend> no, it doesn't.
<Transhumanist> That's rubbish, jo-erlend, but I'll let you run with it.
<M4rtinK> of course doing heavy number crunching in pure Python is stupid
<M4rtinK> but there are tons of optimized C&family libraries with Python bindings that can help with just that :)
<M4rtinK> Numpy, PIL, etc.
<jo-erlend> Even loading the interpreter adds quite a bit of overhead. Particularly to simple applications.
<Transhumanist> Yeah, but you're assuming it is user visible overhead.
<jo-erlend> it really is.
<Transhumanist> Are you using PyPy or C Python?
<M4rtinK> the interpreter starts instantly, even on relatively weak mobile devices (N900, Neo Freerunner)
<jo-erlend> but even if it's not user visible, it would still require more power from the computer, increasing battery usage.
<Transhumanist> for a split second at the start
<Transhumanist> you really think that's going to kill the battery?
<M4rtinK> provided your application is properly even driven that's not an issue
<M4rtinK> *event driven
<Transhumanist> I also don't think you understand PyPy, jo-erlend.
<M4rtinK> it would be just noise compared to Screen and/or active GPS
<jo-erlend> based on the fact that I prefer native, I don'áº understand Python?
<Transhumanist> Based on your false claims about Python's performance. :)
<M4rtinK> Transhumanist: haven't seen PyPy anywhere on mobile devices yet - everything is CPython 2.5-7
<jo-erlend> they are not false.
<M4rtinK> BB10 has 3.2
<Transhumanist> M4rtinK: Ubuntu Phone OS isn't exactly a normal mobile device :p
<M4rtinK> Transhumanist: well, thanks god it isn't :D
<M4rtinK> as most people think mobile device == android == iOS, etc. :)
<M4rtinK> lets say "mobile computer" :)
<Transhumanist> Do you specifically mean you don't think PyPy has been ported to ARM architectures yet?
<M4rtinK> haven't seen it even mentioned on the platforms I'm working on (Maemo 5 & 6, Mer, SHR, Android, BB10)
<Transhumanist> Just checked and it has ARM support.
<Transhumanist> Implements 2.7.3, though, not 3.2
<M4rtinK> interesting :)
<M4rtinK> what about Qt bindings ?
<M4rtinK> thats quite the deciding factor :)
<Transhumanist> quite
<M4rtinK> anyway, time to hit the deck
<M4rtinK> night all ! :)
<jo-erlend> Considering that QML is written for JavaScript and C++, it seems logical to focus on those languages, I think.
<Transhumanist> btw, it's worth pointing out that PyPy can be compiled to asm
<Transhumanist> fair enough. This got too heated. Learn a language and make awesome apps! :D
<chriadam> ra ra ra language wars in 2013 ;-P
<jo-erlend> yes, and I don't even understand why. I love Python. It's been my primary language for many years. But it doesn't seem to be a good fit with QML. It might work, and I try very hard not to be a fundamentalist when choosing my tools.
<jo-erlend> that is; if I want to develop in QML, and it is designed for JavaScript and C++, then I'd rather use those languages than jumping through hoops in order to use to Python and C.
<Transhumanist> Fair enough
<Transhumanist> have you seen this site yet, jo-erlend?
<Transhumanist> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/programming-languages/qml/
<jo-erlend> Besides; c++11 seems to have added quite a few things that'll make it more comfortable than it was when I used it.
<Transhumanist> Things that make it more comfortable to code in or more powerful to code in?
<jo-erlend> more comfort without loss of power, I'd say.
<jo-erlend> I'm comparing C++11 to earlier versions of C++, not to other languages.
<Transhumanist> yep, gotcha
<mesquka> hi, whats the news
<Transhumanist> The news is: wait for CES
<Ryan45> I'm going to get a galaxy nexeus
<mesquka> when is the ces?
<Ryan45> tomorrow
<mesquka> ok
<krabador> after announces like the one of Shuttleworth, questions are dozens :) will Ubuntu Phone OS have a personal hardware support ?
<popey> krabador: i dont understand the question
<krabador> popey, i mean if ubuntu phone OS devs will work actively on phone hardware Support too
<popey> we're not going to have the capacity to work on every single phone if that's what you're asking
<krabador> yes, non every single phone, but for soc families
<popey> not sure. I expect we'll release an image for some flagship phone and the community would fettle it to go on other devices
<Tak> I approve this use of "fettle"
<krabador> i asking it because communities sometimes have many problems to porting, in equal power too
<krabador> some project for use android apps on ubuntu phone os?
<popey> krabador: we're not planning to run Android apps on top of Ubuntu for Phones.
<krabador> ok, whats users of mainstream mobile apps, like whatsapp, can expect?
<gac> presumably they can expect "nothing, until the app vendor writes a ubuntu version"? it's not possible to write your own app to interface with whatsapp, and it's unlikely they'll write anything until ubuntu phones have proven themselves
<gac> and I think that's likely to be the case with a lot of apps, particularly messaging and otherwise web-based apps (i.e. any app which interfaces with a service that's not on your device)
<mesquka> i believe ubuntu phone will be a great sucsess, maybe not immidiatly but, once apps start to come out, yes
<JasonB> Just a very quick one, I don't want to hold up conversation - when can I expect to be able to get my hands on any release of the ubuntu phone os image to flash to my GNex?
<Tak> it was a pretty lively conversation
<Tak> I imagine that when this information is available, it will be all over the interwebs
<JasonB> Sorry, not sure how IRC works, for all I know the conversation was out of my permitted view :) And thanks for the response. I figured this channel would be the first to know, or know something the internet does not.
<mesquka> wait for the ces tomorrow, that's probably under wraps now
<JasonB> Will do, thanks for the response and have a nice day :)
<krabador> i really hope that you devs spread really soon the phone ranges, for available images
<tarelerulz> Is a version of Ubuntu phone  for any device ?
<UbuntuBhoy> https://www.change.org/petitions/canonical-use-users-of-xda-developers-com-as-testers-for-ubuntu-for-phone#description
<UbuntuBhoy> I like how they don't think Ubuntu have their own community :D
<Tak> tarelerulz: No images available yet.
<popey> UbuntuBhoy: it's a fair suggestion, dunno why the guy felt the need to make a petition out of it
<tarelerulz> I know the phone part ,but could you  run it on a Tablet?
<Transhumanist> I love that the Android guys are so excited about this
<Transhumanist> they don't see it as a threat - they see it as better
<UbuntuBhoy> popey: I would think that within the trusted Ubuntu ranks there are plenty of folk who could do the job
<UbuntuBhoy> XDA is no longer the XDA of old
<popey> the xda developers would be great to have on board
<popey> they have experience of lots of devices
<UbuntuBhoy> you would need to be very select I think
<popey> and are very enthusiastic about getting community stuff working on their devices
<UbuntuBhoy> some are
<tarelerulz> At the end of the day we all want something useful.  I would love to have a full os for my mobile device that ui was made for a mobile.
<UbuntuBhoy> you get an awful lot of in fighting now
<Transhumanist> UbuntuBhoy: selective like maybe hiring the Cyanogenmod guys? ;)
<arij> does ces start today or tomorrow?
<UbuntuBhoy> Transhumanist: not so sure
<UbuntuBhoy> they have their own thing#
<UbuntuBhoy> -#
<Transhumanist> So did the Debian guys before Ubuntu. And the Android guys before Google said hello. ;)
<gac> personally, I can't stand XDA developers much anymore. there's too much "I'm an xda-dev because I took someone elses ROM, removed an .apk, gave it a rubbish name, released it, and dropped it after one release"
<gac> it can be quite a frustrating community nowadays I think
<Transhumanist> Yes, it's as immature as the early days of Windows 9x. In all senses.
<tarelerulz> There are all ways Toots in ever community.  They go on to something else and the real deals stay around
<Robbilie> tarelerulz, whats a Toots?
<tarelerulz> Tool sorry
<Robbilie> ah doesnt really matter, missed the whole conversation :/
<UbuntuBhoy> gac: kanging is a big issue now - that's why you get the original dev sections
<tarelerulz> XDA seem like site its better for other to link a page in the site then try looking for yourself
<gac> UbuntuBhoy: I haven't looked at the full structure, I just read "Desire Android Development" which is 99% nonsense nowadays :(
<gac> or seems that way to me, anyway
<tarelerulz> So where do you find how to dev for the os itself?  Not for app or anything like that
<tarelerulz> I just find that odd for Android.  Its open source ,but  as to working on the os  , you seem to download , compile and make rom .  There is no one place you go I want to learn.  I'm sure you guys learn how to dev for Ubuntu at one place
<UbuntuBhoy> What OS ? Ubuntu Phone ?
<UbuntuBhoy> gac: The Desire section is still the old structure
<UbuntuBhoy> since the S2, new phones have had dev split into two
<gac> UbuntuBhoy: fair enough, I've had no need to venture elsewhere, only replaced the desire a week ago :)
<tarelerulz> Just saying Android.  That is what I find.  So , do you all have an Android device? get idea and see what  mobile is like ?
<gac> but yeah, now I've just looked in the Nexus 4 bit, I can see what you mean
<gac> I'm sure that'll improve things a lot
<arij> i think ubuntu for android is different than
<arij> ubuntu phone
<tarelerulz> can you import your Google contacts for Ubuntu phone?
<UbuntuBhoy> tarelerulz: no images have been released yet
<UbuntuBhoy> I am sure more info will come out at CES
<tarelerulz> Really you guys are not running some pre-release build of it on a mobile device?
<UbuntuBhoy> and when the source comes out, you will get to alter it how you wish (keeping within license agreements)
<UbuntuBhoy> same as android
<tarelerulz> Is these the dev room?
<tarelerulz> this I mean
<Robbilie> UbuntuBhoy, when is the presentatio0n and will it be streamed?
<UbuntuBhoy> lol, yes, but for the community
<UbuntuBhoy> I am not a dev
<UbuntuBhoy> Robbilie: don't know if there is a presentation as such
<Robbilie> ah just thought you were :D
<UbuntuBhoy> but Canonical have a 'booth'
<UbuntuBhoy> No, the folk who are with Ubuntu have proper names
<UbuntuBhoy> not like my Fanboi one
<Robbilie> :D
<Robbilie> example?
<UbuntuBhoy> not for me to point folk out
<Robbilie> :D
<d_rwin> Can I get some details on mobile segments- smart and entry-level category design? Its Course?
<mhall119> heads up folks, it looks like the Galaxy Nexus will be available late February
<mhall119> we appreciate your patience while we get them put together
<arij> ?
<ubuntubhoy> images ?
<ubuntubhoy> got to be
<mhall119> oh yes, sorry, images for the galaxy nexus
<ubuntubhoy> longer than I thought
<ubuntubhoy> where did you get that from ?
<ubuntubhoy> or are you involved ?
<mhall119> ubuntubhoy: the team working on making them
<ubuntubhoy> Ahh
<ubuntubhoy> cheers
<mhall119> ubuntubhoy: not in a technical sense
<ubuntubhoy> still a million times closer than me :D
<ubuntubhoy> mhall119: will source also be released then ?
<mhall119> you're off by several orders of magnitude
<mhall119> ubuntubhoy: should be, yes
<ubuntubhoy> K
<ubuntubhoy> ta
<mhall119> np
<k1l> i bet the ubuntu-phone guys would even make images for nexus4 but they are still in backorder :)
<user82_> k1l one should hope so...
<user82_> i want to buy nexus4
<k1l> well, i got a nexus4.
<user82_> what is the price in germany? 299â¬ or more?
<k1l> 299 or 350 + 10 for shipping.
<user82_> a lot of money but the specs are really high end...
<k1l> yep. but not that much money as other manufactures want for their top-devices.   but the GNex is still a good one and very well equipped. and its the dev-phone from ubuntu-one
<ubuntubhoy> mhall119: hope you don't mind me asking, is there a reason for the delay? (making a more complete system image or possible work with partners etc)
<mhall119> Ubuntu made it to AT&T's slide deck at CES: https://twitter.com/ryanreith/status/288362950148907009/photo/1
<k1l> maybe you can grab a cheaper new gnex or a really cheap used /refurbished gnex
<mhall119> ubuntubhoy: I don't have details, but I'd imagine they're finishing it off and making sure it's something that can be easily installed
<mhall119> I don't know what the current process is that they go through to load it onto phones
<ubuntubhoy> K
<ubuntubhoy> thanks again
<ubuntubhoy> would guess it's a fastboot flash of some kind though
<mhall119> no problem
<Pulser> interesting, ubuntubhoy is there an ODIN accessible mode on the nexus?
<Pulser> or are they only accessible by fastboot
<ubuntubhoy> not sure
<ubuntubhoy> only Nexus I had was the N One
<ubuntubhoy> but I would doubt Odin would touch it
<ubuntubhoy> would imagine Google were strict about the way it could be accessed
<k1l> so is there a dev team on CES?
<ubuntubhoy> Pulser: what can Odin give that Fastboot can't ?
<mhall119> k1l: there may be some technical people there, but I don't think it's any developers
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-phone to: Discussion for all things regarding Ubuntu for Phones | This channel is logged to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | If nobody is here use http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/mobile | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone | No images available yet, aiming for end of Feb '13
<k1l> mhall119: yes, thought so. just wanted to here how its going at the CES
<ubuntubhoy> It would be fantastic if they could get one of the larger OEM's on board
<ubuntubhoy> someone with respected hardware
<mhall119> ubuntubhoy: that's why they're at CES :)
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ubuntubhoy> quite fancy HTC taking a punt on it
<ubuntubhoy> the way they did with Android
<k1l> well, the other mobile OS all have some weak spots. so if ubuntu-phone is clever designed they could make benefit of that
<ubuntubhoy> To be fair so will UOS
<ubuntubhoy> nothing is perfect
<k1l> ubuntubhoy: yes of course. nobody is perfect
<k1l> i think the apps will be a big issue at starting point.
<k1l> not to have apps is a big showstopper for endusers
<ubuntubhoy> very miuch
<ubuntubhoy> much*
<ubuntubhoy> so
<ubuntubhoy> releasing the SDK is a wise move
<ubuntubhoy> they need to get all the social networks tied up as well
<ubuntubhoy> otherwise loads of folk wont go near it
<ubuntubhoy> BB have bean kinda clever with BB10
<ubuntubhoy> they have been having dev days all over the world
<k1l> i got a hp touchpad with webos. webos was quite a good mobile OS but there wasnt even an IRC app o_O (besides the very insane pricing hp did)
<ubuntubhoy> to get apps ready for release
<ubuntubhoy> k1l: no Android on it ?
<k1l> ubuntubhoy: of course. but that took some time to develop.
<ubuntubhoy> not too long really
<ubuntubhoy> once the fire sale was done there were loads of devs working on it
<k1l> yep, i was in there with all the drama
<ubuntubhoy> I missed out
<Pulser> hmm k1l I recognise the username
<Pulser> from touchpad times IIRC
<k1l> :)
<Pulser> hehehe
<Pulser> how the heck can I remember that
<Pulser> that's scary lol
<Pulser> CM Touchpad was from summer 2011?
<k1l> we talked some time back then
<Pulser> ah yes, that's why, I recall it now
<Pulser> yeah, I like all these "alternate OS" options coming up lately... But I wait with bated breath to see if they will get anywhere tbh
<Pulser> Firefox OS has been "in the works" for a while and showed promise... they got one thing right by trying to make it "installable" onto regular Android devices
<Pulser> but it's still nowhere near ready IMO
<Pulser> whereas ubuntu phone looks to be prrtty interesting :)
<Pulser> pretty *
<ubuntubhoy> BTG is a mess on a handset
<ubuntubhoy> I tried it and really un-impressed
<Pulser> ubuntubhoy, indeed lol, though I think they got their attention too early, while it lacked core features
<Pulser> like "calling"
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ubuntubhoy> I built it just before I sold the S2 as you never updated your build on XDA
<Pulser> aye
<Pulser> yeah I stopped that as their build system doesn't work on the software I run on the server
<ubuntubhoy> was really underwhelmed
<ubuntubhoy> Ahh
<ubuntubhoy> will let you off then
<k1l> btg?
<Pulser> mmhm
<ubuntubhoy> that said, was easy to set up and build
<Pulser> k1l, boot2gecko ie. firefox OS
<k1l> ahh, ic
<Pulser> it's been on and off for over a year iirc
<Pulser> I remember doing builds back about a year back
<Pulser> and they were utterly unusable, no RIL, no nothing tbh
<Pulser> BUT A SHINY UI!!!11111!!
<ubuntubhoy> not that shiny
<Pulser> so really Android has had zero sensible competition for some time
<Pulser> ubuntubhoy, true dat
<ubuntubhoy> yeah, right now it's still Android FTW
<k1l> advantage on ubuntu is, that they actually got experience in running a OS. but the problem is that the mobile business is another issue
<Pulser> yup
<Pulser> see, I've spent 4 years basically slap bang in the middle of some parts of it
<Pulser> Ubuntu has got some things going as an OS
<ubuntubhoy> If the test builds are anything like the video's show then it will have a decent start
<Pulser> BUT the mobile market is TOTALLY different
<Pulser> ubuntubhoy, I agree, it looks nice, BUT imo the killer is what you hit the market with
<ubuntubhoy> yip
<Pulser> right now, Android and iOS have n million apps each
<Pulser> Firefox OS aims to make it "web apps ftw"
<ubuntubhoy> if they can show enough to capture the geek market they will do ok
<ubuntubhoy> that is how Android got it's first footing after all
<ubuntubhoy> but it also had the power of Google behind it
<Pulser> indeed that is true
<Pulser> the trouble is... how do you capture the geek market, short of being "more open source"?
<Pulser> which then conversely will make app devs like it less (in some weird cases)
<ubuntubhoy> kind of
<ubuntubhoy> but do you not think stock Android is kind of closing in
<ubuntubhoy> MTP etc
<ubuntubhoy> Nexus without SD cards
<Pulser> oh indeed, it's getting bad, REAL bad
<ubuntubhoy> little things
<Pulser> unified storage is awful in practice
<ubuntubhoy> that's why I was glad to read the UOS min specs
<ubuntubhoy> both sets mention SD cards
<Pulser> ubuntubhoy, do they mention open sauce bootloaders and RILs?
<k1l> i like the way ubuntu handles the "desktop". android and iOS look very similar
 * Pulser still expresses his anger at the lack of both
<ubuntubhoy> nope, just hardware specs
<Pulser> :(
<ubuntubhoy> but that would be down to OEM's I think
<ubuntubhoy> doubt Canonical would be able to negotiate that
<Pulser> well true, BUT what about the "flagship"?
<ubuntubhoy> would be nice
<k1l> well, ubuntu should walk into the bootloader trap
<Pulser> I think it would be ideologically horrid to have to IDA up parts of an ubuntu phone
<k1l> *should not
<Pulser> I hope it doesn't :)
<Pulser> u-boot all the devices!
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<ubuntubhoy> would be great to have one truly open device
<ubuntubhoy> imagine what the community could do with it
<donttrustem> When do we get a beta release of ubuntu phone.....  I have a google nexus waiting
<popey> see the /topic
<donttrustem> Cool
<donttrustem> Can't wait
<donttrustem> Does it install from USB?
<Pulser> well... given the available input devices on a Galaxy Nexus, I think that is likely
<donttrustem> Pulser: it could have been via the cloud
<donttrustem> Net install
<Pulser> unlikely given how these phones work
<Pulser> they're designed to try to prevent something remote changing the kernel and filesystems
<ubuntubhoy> donttrustem: I wouldn't trust him TBH
<Pulser> lol
<ubuntubhoy> microwave updates
<ubuntubhoy> get your tinfoil hat on
 * Pulser has his ready at all times
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<donttrustem> Lol
<donttrustem> Just reading about what will be available ... It says it has a dialer does this mean 3G and wifi will work as well
<donttrustem> Are any of you guys running it at the moment?
<ubuntubhoy> not been released
<donttrustem> What I mean is as developers
<ubuntubhoy> only those in the inner sanctions will have tried it
<donttrustem> Ok. So we have no illuminati here :)
<mhall119> like we'd tell you where we keep our illuminati
<ubuntubhoy> if you ask a reasonable question that are able to answer one usually pops out the shadow's
<ubuntubhoy> like him ^^^^
<ubuntubhoy> :D
<donttrustem> Lol
<donttrustem> Ok what can we expect from the release.... Will the nexus work as a normal phone
<donttrustem> Rephrase smartphone
<donttrustem> Also will there be any apps available ....
<ubuntubhoy> well, the SDK has been out since the announcement
<ubuntubhoy> so some dev's will have apps being worked on
<ubuntubhoy> TBH the SDK works pretty well
<ubuntubhoy> I had a little look even though I have not coded anything for more moons than you have hot dinners
<mhall119> donttrustem: you can expect evertyhing you saw in the demo
<mhall119> it's prototype code for a demo, so expect it to have a lot of rough edges
<mhall119> it's not going to be an immediate replacement for what you can buy in a store
<mhall119> you can also expect to become instantly more popular with your geekier friends
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<donttrustem> I am interested in being able to support it as well
<ubuntubhoy> mhall119: you should use that as a tag line
<ubuntubhoy> "you can also expect to become instantly more popular with your geekier friends - get Ubuntu OS"
<mhall119> lol
<ubuntubhoy> works for me
<donttrustem> Impress your geeky friends with ubuntu phone....  Not really a great tagging for the mass market lol
<mhall119> we might start a tumblr or something though, for photos of you and your Ubuntu Phone at random places
<ubuntubhoy> HTC do that on their elevate page
<ubuntubhoy> it's a decent idea
<ubuntubhoy> add a nice hashtag
 * mhall119 hates it when his humor turns out to be reasonable
<ubuntubhoy> :D
<donttrustem> Humour people remember
<ubuntubhoy> I am being serious though
<ubuntubhoy> HTC do that
<donttrustem> That or disaster :(
<ubuntubhoy> they also have a section for folk to take pics of the new handsets in phone shops
<bobweaver> has any one seen a picture or anything of what the touchpad keyboard looks like ?
<ubuntubhoy> nope
<donttrustem> First it needs to be out there but this has massive potential for the corp market.  It has a massive reduction power consumption in the office  which in turn reduces heat and aircon
<donttrustem> The list can go on...
<ubuntubhoy> suppose that could be another decent market - docking stations and the like to take advantage of the Desktop
<donttrustem> I had to source a small form factor for a project I was running ...  2000 desktops because the architect screwed up the floor space and they has to reduce the  desk footprint
<ubuntubhoy> Yay, I have a bidder on my big kettle
<ubuntubhoy> donttrustem: would an all in one not suit that better ?
<donttrustem> It turned out by doing this they also saved 25000 on aircon
<ubuntubhoy> every cloud and all that
<k1l> bobweaver: i think i saw a picture or a video of it. but cant recognize where :X
<donttrustem> ubuntubhoy: That is what I sourced in the end
<donttrustem> But what I am trying to say is that using the phone would be massive saving on everything
<mhall119> bobweaver: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-phone-download-will-be-ready-late-february has a screenshot showing a keyboard
<donttrustem> All corps are looking to save money at the moment
<ubuntubhoy> I suppose
<ubuntubhoy> would depend on the full setup though
<ubuntubhoy> and could you really trust the users
<ubuntubhoy> connecting to a dock can prove a bit much for some
<bobweaver> thanks all
<donttrustem> CNN predict ubuntu phone will not make in roads ....  This is a good sign :)
<popey> Pffft, what do they know ;)
<bobweaver> I predict that unity will keep on crahsing on me all day with 13.04
<donttrustem> ubuntubhoy: If they have nothing else they will use it
<bobweaver> both things are annoying
<donttrustem> popey: Exactly
<ubuntubhoy> I would like to see a padphone style workstation
<ubuntubhoy> drop the handset in and it come to life
<ubuntubhoy> working of the phone CPU
<donttrustem> There is one already
<ubuntubhoy> really
<ubuntubhoy> not seen that
<donttrustem> I saw it on the gadget show in the UK...  Let me see if I can find it
<ubuntubhoy> ta
<bobweaver> Speaking of gadget shows I sure hope that CES is going great
<ubuntubhoy> closest I saw was a netbook that ran of a phone
<bobweaver> any one see video of that yet ?
<ubuntubhoy> not looked
<ubuntubhoy> I will let others sort the good from the bad
<mhall119> according to zdnet's completely unscientific poll, responders think Ubuntu Phone will be successful, 54% to 46%. http://www.zdnet.com/debate/can-ubuntu-smartphones-steal-androids-thunder/10111324/
<bobweaver> I guess that it doesnt start till tuesday CES that is
<mhall119> bobweaver: there's an "Early Access" today, I guess for folks to paid more for their tickets
<bobweaver> crazy crackers !
<bobweaver> j/k
<bobweaver> I would like to see the both
<mhall119> bobweaver: http://instagram.com/p/UMazfMwAn8/ is a photo of the boot
<mhall119> booth
<ubuntubhoy> are Ubuntu Tv and Ubuntu for Android also being showcased ?
<mhall119> I believe so
<bobweaver> very very nice mhall119
<ubuntubhoy> thought I saw something about UTV, but no mention of UFA
<mhall119> ubuntubhoy: I don't know the details, but I'd be surprised if all 3 weren't being demoed
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ubuntubhoy> would make sense to show as much as possible
<bobweaver> any one else here using the beta qt ppa I am having massive troubles with it
<ubuntubhoy> especially as integration is one of the selling points
<ubuntubhoy> bobweaver: I installed the SDK last week and it was fine
<bobweaver> Like qtweb dont work that is a huge mess
<AlanBell> anyone understand the "we don't need a lock screen because all 4 sides are active" thing?
<bobweaver> and half the time that I run things Simple api querys it dies
<ubuntubhoy> AlanBell: nope
<mhall119> AlanBell: there's nothing that a tap will activate on the welcome screen
<mhall119> and I guess an in-pocket swipe isn't likely
<ubuntubhoy> but a rub might ?
<bobweaver> put it on Timer{}
<ubuntubhoy> getting cash out of pocket
<AlanBell> ok
<mhall119> my current phone uses a simple swipe to unlock, so does the iPhone I think
<ubuntubhoy> or evfen just moving the phone
<mhall119> so I'm guessing it takes more than a rub
<ubuntubhoy> but they just 'open' the screen
<ubuntubhoy> they dont select
<ubuntubhoy> well they do on android now
<ubuntubhoy> I take it back
<mhall119> ubuntubhoy: presumably it'll have a hardware button, like most phones, that puts the display/touchpad to sleep
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ubuntubhoy> thats a must
<AlanBell> how about a lock on it so that my kids don't take it off me to play angry birds?
<mhall119> so you'd touch the "wake up" button, then you can easily access stuff
<ubuntubhoy> AlanBell: why have it then
<ubuntubhoy> jam fingers FTW
<mhall119> AlanBell: like your kids can't already unlock your Android phone to get to their Angry Birds
<bobweaver> ubuntubhoy,  how did you install the Ubuntu comments ? to 5rc ? did you just make sure that it(qt5rc) installed to opt ?
<AlanBell> well, I uninstalled all the games on my phone as it happens, but I could have put a password/swipy diagram thing on it
<ubuntubhoy> I just followed the instructions on the Ubuntu pages
<mhall119> AlanBell: kids could break into Fort Knox if it had forbidden candy or games
<bobweaver> that is not qt5rc
<bobweaver> that is beta1
<bobweaver> that is the one that keeps on crashing on me
<mhall119> AlanBell: I'm sure someone will write a "secure" lock screen for people who want that
<mhall119> bobweaver: that's what I was using when you were helping me the other day
<mhall119> beta1
<mhall119> bobweaver: are you on Quantal?
<dubstar_04> Is there a place where we can share apps? I have written a really simple calculator and I was thinking it would be cool is there was a public git or similar?
<ubuntubhoy> that would be a really good idea actually
<mhall119> dubstar_04: Launchpad, you can create a project and push it to a bzr branch
<mhall119> or you can share links and screenshots on the Ubuntu and Ubuntu App Developers communities on G+
<mhall119> https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/107299007624972266094
<mhall119> https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/111350780270925540549
<ubuntubhoy> is there a phone section ?
<mhall119> nope, but since apps are going to be cross-formfactor, you can pust them in the Showcase section of the Ubuntu App Developers community
<mhall119> people have already started posting phone sdk apps there
<ubuntubhoy> K
<ubuntubhoy> will need to have a look
<ubuntubhoy> mhall119: will there be design guides coming, like Holo on Android ?
<mhall119> just got confirmation, the February release is going to be source code too, not just binaries
<mhall119> all open source
<ubuntubhoy> thats what we want to hear
<_polto_> yeah!
<_polto_> even more that it's Free/Libre
<donttrustem> Start of a great project.
<_polto_> mhall119, do you have by chance any info on than the code could be downloaded and compiled to test on a phone ?
<mhall119> _polto_: when?
<bobweaver> mhall119,  that is Awesome !!
<mhall119> _polto_: the code and installable images should be available late February
<_polto_> when, sorry!
<_polto_> Feb. - nice :)
<ubuntubhoy> mhall119: picture you just posted is very cruel
<ubuntubhoy> #JustSaying
<mhall119> lol
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-phone to: Discussion for all things regarding Ubuntu for Phones | This channel is logged to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | If nobody is here use http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/mobile | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone | Source code and image should arrive end of Feb '13
<ubuntubhoy> yay, only 4.5 hours more work
<GabMus> hello ubuntu phone folks
<mhall119> hello GabMus
<GabMus> any news i could not know?
<popey> GabMus: read the /topic?
<GabMus> now yes
<popey> consider yourself fully up to date
<GabMus> meh, ok then :I
<donttrustem> Just reading the ZDNET comments....   :) interesting and it seems like the cat has been let out into the pigeons
<donttrustem> One negative that may ring true, is that it won't be delivered on time!
<mhall119> donttrustem: the code or an actual handset you can purchase?
<ubuntubhoy> doubt that, if that's the case I would expect it to be hardware rather than software that holds it up
<donttrustem> They were comparing to ubuntu tv
<ubuntubhoy> different thing altogether
<ubuntubhoy> even Google TV has still not 'happened'
<popey> sure it has
<popey> you can buy a device running Google TV
<popey> whether you'd _want_ to... on the other hand..
<ubuntubhoy> that's why the ''
<popey> what defines a "happening"?
<ubuntubhoy> gaining traction for one
<skar3> Hi all
<popey> hello
<mesquka> hi
<mesquka> hi
#ubuntu-phone 2013-01-08
<mhall119> hello mesquka
<reindeernix> Hello :D
<reindeernix> Everyone in a good mood tonight waiting silently for the source code? ;)
<Transhumanist> Popey or others: I don't suppose you can tell us if the developer image for the Galaxy Nexus will be designed for the 3g version, the 4g version, or both? Can you give a specific model number it is guarenteed to work on? (E.g. the model number of the phone you guys currently run it on. Is it GT-I9250?
<k1l_> reindeernix: that is gonna be a long night then :)
<reindeernix> kil_, who needs sleep anyway? >.<
<k1l_> well. i think to end of februar will be a world record then :)
<mhall119> Transhumanist: I can ask, besides the radio chip is there much other hardware difference?
<mhall119> reindeernix: source code will be released towards the end of February, you might want to get some sleep between now and then
<reindeernix> mhall119, yeah I know, just joking
<reindeernix> ;)
<Transhumanist> mhall119: well, the radio chip is crucial for it to work as a phone
<Transhumanist> and if Ubuntu Phone OS doesn't have a driver for 4g, because they've been working on the 3g version, then that makes the phone less useful
<Transhumanist> Not useless, but if I have the choice of buying a phone for Ubuntu OS, I may as well choose that which will be the most feature complete under it
<Transhumanist> Since my aim is development, a non-functional radio chip doesn't bother me TOO much.
<Transhumanist> but still
<mhall119> Transhumanist: when it actually ships on a phone, it will support whatever hardware is on the phone, the images we release will be meant for development testing, not day-to-day use
<darkham> please... let leak an image before the end of feb '13... it's the type of well working marketing...
<Transhumanist> mhall119: I full realise that, but for development testing it's nice to have the main purpose of a phone working ;)
<Transhumanist> I don't mean making calls - I mean cellular internet
<ubuntubhoy> Surely for most apps usage, wifi would serve just as well for testing
<k1l_> Who wants to make calls with a smartphone ? Its all about the Internet :)
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<ubuntubhoy> voice chat is what GTalk is for :d
<M4rtinK> gosh, who would like to call from a smartphone ?
<M4rtinK> the time on battery is already bad as is :)
<ubuntubhoy> yeah, although mine has been ok the last week or so
<Transhumanist> <ubuntubhoy> Surely for most apps usage, wifi would serve just as well for testing
<Transhumanist> fair point
<Transhumanist> Actually, whenever I go to: a) a workplace, b) university, c) anyone's house, I'm pretty much guarenteed access to wifi. I've found the only time I use 3G is basically bus rides. And even that is changing, with Wifi nodes being installed on buses.
<ubuntubhoy> I suppose for apps needing GPS outside 3G is a must
<ubuntubhoy> but they are few
<ubuntubhoy> also I speak as a user, I could not develop a polaroid instant
<ubuntubhoy> (old guy talk)
<ubuntubhoy> I actually kept meaning to learn to dev for Android apps, but this could be better
<ubuntubhoy> installed QT -creator and will have a look
<mhall119> http://vimeo.com/56944191 shows some more performance improvements since the demo last week
<mesquka> Hi
<Ryan45> hello
<mesquka> I can't stop shaking, finding it difficult to type
<atiti> woooo
<atiti> source code is released too?
<atiti> sweeeeet
<atiti> its gona be epic
<Ryan45> hmm
<Ryan45> now i am confused
<Ryan45> i just read TI gave up on OMAP for phones
<Ryan45> So there are litterally no current top of the line devices that Galaxy Nexus is a stepping stone too.
<gac> I thought, with it being ARM based, that ARM CPUs from other manufacturers will share the same instruction set anyway?
<Ryan45> they do, but the rest of the chips can be different, the rest of the chips that make up the platform
<Ryan45> I would think going with the new intel atom reference platform as the base would be better as they could have a lot easier path.
<Ryan45> I could be wrong though. I'm not a scientist
<gac> hm, yeah, i see what you mean now
<Ryan45> This report says intel announced 7 phones for the new atom reference platform
<Ryan45> including from ZTE
<iobug> Hi All!
<Ryan45> hello
<iobug> can anybody recommend me a cheap phone for ubuntu :)
<Ryan45> gac, can you? :)
<gac> nope! :)
<gac> i'm merely a user, i know no more about ubuntu on phones than the rest of you guys :P
<Ryan45> i'm less then you :)
<DaemonicApathy> Don't worry, gac, you're not alone. I'm still upgrading my desktop to make toast.
<iobug> samsung galaxy have a required processot, but they are many models....
<iobug> processor*
<gac> iobug: I think the Galaxy Nexus is (rumoured to be, at least) the first device to have an installable image
<gotwig> howdy
<gotwig> Can I develop for Ubuntu Phone with Windows 7?
<atiti> Intel Atom?
<atiti> i doubt that would be a wise choice
<Ryan45> atiti they are pursuing a phone reference
<Ryan45> it's not the same as the netbook atom
<atiti> ok but still, currently arm is owning the phone/tablet market
<atiti> ill try to see if i can get ubuntu phone to run on my xperia neo
<atiti> sure its not an A9 but a snapdragon
<atiti> but i guess as long as the android kernel can be used the userland stuff is probably just armel/armhf anyway
<Ryan45> oooh
<Ryan45> nice
<Ryan45> I must have missed this before
<Ryan45> i am an idiot
<Ryan45> they specifically mention intel atom
<Ryan45> ZTE is doing an atom phone, would probably be a nice path for UP.
<atiti> nice
<mhall119> for those wanting CES videos, I'm compiling a list of all the ones I come across here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone#Videos
<mhall119> feel free to add any others that I'm missing
<Tak> sweet
<Robbilie> thanks mhall119 ;)
<M4rtinK> thanks ! :)
<XenGi> does anyone know if there will be an image for the nexus 4? I would like to test this on mine.
<Tak> I imagine that this will be a high-priority target for the community at least
<XenGi> i hope so ;)
<XenGi> as i understand it i just need the stock android kernel and libs and install the ubuntu rootfs. that should be quite easy.
<Lofde_> is there a sign up list yet to be able to get an alpha build to load onto my galaxy nexus..
<mhall119> Lofde_: no, once there's something available we'll make it available to everybody
<Lofde_> i was hoping you might be supporting alpha developers and testers.. *shrug*
<mhall119> Lofde_: we are, we're just supporting alpha developers and testers *and* everybody else at the same time
<Lofde_> yeah i understand that you probably are working with channel partners and manufactures, but this is the coolest idea that i dont have to run the OS on my phone if i want to.. theres still some things i wonder if i would actually like with ubuntu phone but i am excited to at least give it a try! i like choices!
<mhall119> Lofde_: as far as I know, the images that will be released next month will be the first anybody outside of the development team has access to them
<Lofde_> awesomeness
<tom123> does the phone support android apps? this would be great, then ubuntu would have all the famous apps a lot of people would miss...
<mhall119> tom123: no, there won't be a Dalvik Java VM on the Ubuntu Phone
<mhall119> you can write native apps or webapps for it though
<tom123> so using a vm in the ubuntu phone would be the only soultion?^^
<mhall119> tom123: Android apps are Java apps running in their specific VM, so yes
<tom123> mhall119: ok thx for the information
<mhall119> np
<tom123> mhall119: but are there any specific reasons for not supporting this? i mean, android is licensed under gpl isnt it?
<mhall119> tom123: because it would be a constant game of catch-up, we wouldn't be able to offer anything better than the Android APIs, they wouldn't work on other form-factors like desktop or TV, and nobody would bother to write native Ubuntu apps
<mhall119> is the short list :)
<mhall119> In the end, we want to make Ubuntu on Phones, not another way of providing Android on phones
<tom123> yeah, but maybe it is easier to convince people for the first time^^
<tom123> i mean, the first step is to get more people using the ubuntu phone, isnt it?
<mhall119> Yes, but if they use Ubuntu Phone because it has Android apps, then we can't ever stop having Android apps
<mhall119> and as long as we have Android apps, nobody will write Ubuntu apps for it
<mhall119> so while it might make the first step easier, it's a long-term commitment to the wrong path
<mhall119> and again, we want to offer something *better* than Android
<atiti> :D
<atiti> cant wait to get my hands on the code
<tom123> mhall119: ok thx again for the explanation:)
<user82> colegues of me are at CES. why not me i want to see the phone :D
<user82> any new videos from there ?
<mhall119> user82: I'm collecting video links here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone#Videos
<mhall119> as you can see, there is already a number of CES ones
<user82> cool mhall119  thanks
<user82> any news else? images release date etc?
<mhall119> user82: "late February" for images and source code
<user82> works for me..end of may i want to buy a new phone.
<user82> then there will be some versions i think for different phones
<Lofde_> i was wondering how ubuntu phone is handling the lock screen.. to keep the phone from being used by other people is there a video describing that?
<Lofde_> and using the MHL will you be able to connect a HDMI screen, and for a keyboard and mouse maybe bluetooth?
<Lofde_> haha my next phone will be my desktop/laptop/tablet.. i wonder if verizon will care if i run services like SSH/VNC/FTP on that 4gLTE :)
<mhall119> Lofde_: you will be able to dock the phone and get a full Ubuntu desktop, yes
<mhall119> as long as you pay-per-usage data plan with Verizon, I'm sure they'll be happy for you to use as much of it as you can :)
<Lofde_> i wish some of these youtube videos the reporters or press would have used an HD camera to shoot the video on youtube..
<atiti> how about contacts
<Lofde_> $30 unlimited data ... i hope i could still free  tether like i can with my rooted gnex :)
<atiti> will the be synchronised?
<Lofde_> oh yeah i didnt think about syncing all my google contacts .. thats a must.. and facebook too i like to import all those numbers with faces into the phone.. i had to use the FriendCaster facebook app with the nexus there for a while since facebook was being a !@#$
<m3talsmith> So it's really going to take until febuary to get the source code out?
<m3talsmith> *february
<xperiasuser> hey guys
<m3talsmith> hi xperiasuser
<ubuntubhoy> does anyone know if the Gwibber desktop service is included in Ubuntu phone OS ?
<mhall119> ubuntubhoy: it's going to be called "Friends", but I assume it will be, yes
<ubuntubhoy> nice
<Ryan45> lol, friends
<Ryan45> I just hope the end game of this is an unlocked phone store
<Ryan45> for the US
<ubuntubhoy> I guess a lot of that will be down to carriers
<mhall119> Ryan45: unlocked phone, or unlocked app store?
<ubuntubhoy> The app store needs to be regulated
<ubuntubhoy> otherwise you end up with malicious apps
<mhall119> apps will be sandboxed as well, so reduce the threat even if you do end up installing something dangerous
<ubuntubhoy> the handset is not as big a deal, if it carries a warranty warning the way the Nexus devices do
<ubuntubhoy> or do you mean unlocked as in SIM free ?
<ubuntubhoy> mhall119: on the 'app store', will it be a filtered version of Software Centre ?
<mhall119> ubuntubhoy: Those details haven't been decided yet
<ubuntubhoy> it would kind of make sense as apps can be cross device I suppose
<mhall119> Obviously we don't want to recommend apps for your phone that won't be usuable on it
<ubuntubhoy> true
<mhall119> but, on the other hand, you can dock your phone and get a full desktop or TV, so maybe it will be usable then
<ubuntubhoy> but at the same time, why run two or more stores
<mhall119> like I said, those details haven't been sorted out yet
<mhall119> ubuntubhoy: It won't likely be multiple stores, but perhaps separate archives or just flags in the package meta-data that can be used for filtering/sorting
<Lofde_> i guess it depends who ubuntu tries to target with this phone to... i think if they just focus on the cool developer , android kids who love hacking with their phones instead of any old grandma.. it would probably push the phone further.. once someones like oo look what my new iphone 5 can do.. a person can get out their ubuntu pc-phone and be like yeah well thats cool
<bobweaver> I need help woith the Import plugin that canonical made in house
<bobweaver> It is all installed but it does not work
<bobweaver> I have tried on 3 different kind's of Qt versions all >5
<bobweaver> I have tried adding the path to my pro files and for simple programs to my qmlprojects file
<bobweaver> WHY IN THE ***** would anyone make plugins that are for on one spific version of qt and then on top of that only make that version avilible to on series of the distro
<bobweaver> a beta version at that
<bobweaver> I just wasted 6 hours debuging to find out that it is about effin fonts
<bobweaver> I am feed up with the overall wakeyness to all these imports and am just going to port to qt5.0.0.rc
<bobweaver> No one knows why this is happening ?
<krabador> now i think i can't introduce this , in a different way : please try to build images for Samsung Galaxy S2 !!!!!!! :)
<bobweaver> So this is what it comes down to. Who ever made this is tieing developers down to this. You must be using a beta version of qt5 you must be using 11.10 if you want to use ppa. You Must not use the new and STABLE version of qt because it is missing fonts lib that some obscure version of qt has
<bobweaver> and the wiki tells you to set you bashrc to export your qt versions ... that is not good you an do all this from ones pro file or qmlproject file
<bobweaver> but then again I am the one with errors here
<mhall119> bobweaver: I'm sure it wasn't by design, sometimes quick hacks become legacy code
<bobweaver> mhall119,  (I have all this code that I want to make/port to the phone but I can not do this and you know me and you  know that I am not a n00b with qt-quick
<bobweaver> But the thing that I dont get is I have the beta version install from daily ppa I have had it install for months
<bobweaver> I also have the plugings in stalled there I also have qt4,7+ qt5.0.0.rc
<bobweaver> I try to use the qt that is from beta ppa that has the imports installed to the imports folder
<bobweaver> and I still get errors about fonts !
<ubuntubhoy> <-- un-informed buffoon so beyond me mate
<ubuntubhoy> Question though, as apps are cross device (hardware dependant) are they simply known as 'Ubuntu Apps' ?
<bobweaver> I am not mad I am more trying to raise awareness to this issue So that if more qt/qtquick devs come along they wont have the same thing happen to them
<ubuntubhoy> I guess if you work it out then submit the info to the dev pages
<bobweaver> I am going to do that ubuntubhoy
<bobweaver> I am going to make the plugins/import lib for qt5.0.0.rc you know the FINAL release of qt5
<ubuntubhoy> I am still trying to read through the Currency converter tut and make sense of it
<ubuntubhoy> 4.8.3 on the download page
<bobweaver> but then comes the trouble of telling people to install the qt from nokia site. People are not going to like that. Not sure why all this effort is is going into 5 beta 1   not even beta 2
<bobweaver> ubuntubhoy,  you are looking at the wrong page then
<ubuntubhoy> hmm
<bobweaver> http://qt-project.org/wiki/Qt_5.0
<ubuntubhoy> my bad, that's the version that the linked QT-Creator is based on
<bobweaver> see beta one was released  August 30, 2012.
<bobweaver> I think that qt4 is like 7 years old now
<bobweaver> maybe even older or younger give or take a year or two
<ubuntubhoy> It does say QT5 on the page though
<bobweaver> ubuntubhoy,  see this would also be a problem to tell people to download something that is not in UDC
<ubuntubhoy> All I know is I am using the stuff from here
<ubuntubhoy> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/app-developer-cookbook/mobile/currency-converter-phone-app/
<ubuntubhoy> but I will never dev anything other than really simple stuff
<bobweaver> file:///home/joseph/Qt5/5.0.0-rc1/gcc/imports/Ubuntu/Components/qmldir: plugin cannot be loaded for module ".home.joseph.Qt5.5.0.0-rc1.gcc.imports.Ubuntu.Components": Module namespace 'Ubuntu.Components' does not match import URI '.home.joseph.Qt5.5.0.0-rc1.gcc.imports.Ubuntu.Components'          SNAP
<bobweaver> ls ~/Qt5.0.0-rc1/5.0.0-rc1/gcc/imports/
<bobweaver> builtins.qmltypes  Qt  QtWebKit  Ubuntu        << there it is installed and all
<bobweaver> In fact it is installed to all qt>5 versions on my system
<squabbi> hello
<bobweaver> I finally Got it working I had to change the way that theming was being built. I now have it all running on Ubuntu 12.04 with qt5 stable . Now for the Fun part Making some Apps.
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<ubuntubhoy> hope you will be posting your fix
<ubuntubhoy> you got anything particular in mind bobweaver
<bobweaver> well I have been working on some media stuf
<ubuntubhoy> so port it over then
<ubuntubhoy> I would really like to see some decent social media apps
<ubuntubhoy> that transpose well to the desktop
<Transhumanist> http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/hands-on-with-ubuntu-for-smartphones-2013018/
<bobweaver> ubuntubhoy,  do you know how to use WebView in Qml ?
<ubuntubhoy> yeah, Russell has been fawning over it
<ubuntubhoy> bobweaver: I don't know how to do jack s**t in Qml
<bobweaver> cool
<ubuntubhoy> sorry
<ubuntubhoy> as I said, just hoping to learn enough to create some very simple apps
#ubuntu-phone 2013-01-09
<dank101> hi
<ubuntubhoy> ello
<AlanBell> I think the phone would be really really attractive if it didn't come with a phone number
<AlanBell> SIP or AIX as the preferred means of transport
<AlanBell> so you get the phone, it doesn't require a cooperative carrier to sell it, the thing is unlocked and simless
<AlanBell> you get a data only SIM for the country of your choice and connect it to your asterisk or other telephone server, or a public SIP provider like sipgate
<AlanBell> and the setup wizard goes through that process.
<AlanBell> so no roaming, you just get a PAYG data sim for the country you are going to
<gac> would require mobile companies to "wake up" a little though, as you'd still need to go through one to get your data, no doubt they'd want to fleece you unrealistically for the data you used
<AlanBell> it is just a data sim, for a dongle
<AlanBell> if you connect to a wifi in starbucks you have no data charge, just the bill from the sip provider
<AlanBell> it rings as an extension on your corporate PBX
<AlanBell> in the office it rings over wifi on your corporate PBX
<AlanBell> battery life would be stressed a bit
<AlanBell> SMS might be tricky to sort out
<AlanBell> 911/112/999 calls would have to go over the network but they get carried anyway wherever you are over any network
<AlanBell> it means Canonical could partner with a SIP endpoint to subsidise it/do contracts rather than unfriendly carriers
<AlanBell> and it would kick ass as a corporate phone
<AlanBell> you can do sip on android, but it isn't the default integrated dialer
<jo-erlend> <AlanBell> I think the phone would be really really attractive if it didn't come with a phone number <--- Hell yes! Phone numbers should've disappeared after WW2.
<jo-erlend> Add PSTN as a plugin. Perhaps some people would finally understand how insanely old-fashioned that is. :)
<gac> i've never played with SIP, just signed up for a sipgate account though, something to tinker with...
<AlanBell> it would probably make the phone/desktop/TV integration make more sense too
<AlanBell> if you can move your phone number around super-easy
<jo-erlend> The problem with SIP is usually NAT, I think. Which in turn, is caused by the continuing use of IPv4. It would've been nice if non-IPv4 was part of the 4G spec.
<jo-erlend> AlanBell, yes, there are numerous benefits. Everything becomes much easier when you can drop support for outdated technologies.
<jo-erlend> I think, for now, it's probably a little too radical for many companies though.
<AlanBell> well maybe, but it would be a big differentiator, and this is for 2014
<AlanBell> and it does an end run around the carriers
<AlanBell> they still get money for doing their bit, but they can't control the market so much
<Scrivener> So. Dat launcher.
<Tak> data-only would mean that only hypernerds would buy it
<Scrivener> So is there any reason why a finger has to remain on the screen at all times to select an item from the launcher?
<Scrivener> Hmmm.
<Scrivener> Seems like the most sensible way to handle it is let them flick it out, flick up/down to scroll, and the launcher will close when they 1) touch anywhere else on the screen, 2) flick it back to the left, or 3) select an app.
<Scrivener> The whole dragging your finger across the surface sure looks clunky.
<Scrivener> But I think this is something a lot of people brought upâ¦ hope it gets an update :)
<mhall119> Scrivener: flicking all the way out actually opens the dash
<mhall119> think of it like th Super key
<Scrivener> Oh does it?
<mhall119> press and hold for the launcher, tab/swipe for the whole days
<mhall119> dash
<Scrivener> Hmmâ¦ how would they take care of the dragging-finger problem, then?
<mhall119> the what?
<Scrivener> I mean, who would use that launcher if you have to do that? It's quite clumsy.
<Scrivener> Like if you pull out the launcher, you have to hold your finger to the screen while you slide to an app.
<mhall119> yeah, I haven't tried it myself, so I don't know what it's actually like
<Scrivener> I'm not the only one that commented that it looks quite aggravating.
<Scrivener> But hey, if by default it takes me to recently used apps in the Dash anyways, I guess that would just function as my launcher.
<mhall119> but I would imagine that after a short time you'd reflexivly remember where on the side the app is, so you don't need to scroll, or not as much
<mhall119> kind of like how I reflexively remember that super+2 is my email, and super+4 is my editor
<Scrivener> Still, I'd like to be able to release my finger from the surface. The way it is, it basically takes two hands to select an app.
<Scrivener> Yeah, memory isn't really the issue.
<Scrivener> It's more about how easy it is to use one thumb to complete actions.
<mhall119> I'd have to try it before I can judge
<mhall119> I felt the same way about Unity originally, until I gave it a chance, now I can't go back
<Scrivener> Yeah, I guess so. I do have a GNex, so once the images are released I plan to.
<mhall119> I've been eying them on ebay and craigslist
<Scrivener> Heh -- I disliked Unity in 11.04/11.10 editions, but in 12.04 I caved to the elegance of it.
<AlanBell> Tak: it would do calls, but via SIP
<Scrivener> And yeah, I love it now, too.
<Scrivener> It definitely appeals to me as a keyboard user.
<AlanBell> you don't buy your number as a component of the phone
<Tak> AlanBell: IME mainstream adoption of the nokia internet tablets and the openmoko phones was greatly hampered by nonexistent or reduced (standard) telephony capability, even though both sets of devices were capable of SIP
<popey> the openmoko had no 3g.. which doesn't help
<bobweaver> what good keywords are there for Ubuntu SDk  ? like tags
<mhall119> bobweaver: what do you mean?
<bobweaver> mhall119,  I have a video that I just put up like 5 seconds ago and was wondering about tags to try to spread the word
<bobweaver> I was also thinking about doing a couple simple app tutorials and havin good keywords(metawords or whatever you want to call them) could be a good thing :)
<bobweaver> mhall119,  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqW021vrTqg
<bobweaver> crashy crahsy though due to some theming bugs
<mhall119> bobweaver: looking good
<bobweaver> eh just messing around
<AlanBell> popey: is that maliit on the phone?
<mhall119> mallets on phones sounds dangerous
<mhall119> Scrivener: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE-QPsATAS0 looks like you can lift your finger from the launcher afterall
<Scrivener> Whoah..
<Scrivener> Why did no one else do that?
<Scrivener> Maybe this was in one of those "nightly builds" that Shuttleworth was saying they had.
<Scrivener> At the start of CES.
<Scrivener> One they weren't showcasing yet.
<mhall119> maybe
<GuidoPallemans1> are there any good qml forums/irc channels?
<GuidoPallemans1> for developers
<user82> lol@john ces. like in 2004 it was the plan to make a smartphone os
<user82> video looks like john needs some more sleep at ces
<popey> jono
<user82> uhm yes..i guess i was totaly baked..uhm baconed i meant
<mhall119> user82: given that he's a new father, he's probably getting more sleep at CES than he was at home
<user82> mhall119 that might be true. but he was a little puzzled in the video..at least i felt so
<user82> he did not have ta "talk flow" as in his live sessions with a new product he should already know a lot about
<IdleOne> link?
<mhall119> user82: welcome to my life ;)
<IdleOne> it is easy to armchair quarterback
<IdleOne> I won the superbowl 17 years in a row doing that
<popey> user82: it's live video and he's not a marketer, I'd cut him some slack
<mhall119> IdleOne: lol
<mhall119> I actually liked jono's video, I think it was one of the better ones to come out so far
<IdleOne> popey: said it a little better than I :)
<mhall119> he certainly handled the phone well, nothing was awkward or unintentional
<user82> IdleOne sorry was away
<user82> IdleOne https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE-QPsATAS0
<user82> mhall119 was diggin it up
<user82> popey did not say he did it bad..but usually he talks a whole lot smoother given any random live question
<mhall119> user82: he's usually the on in control of the camera and in the comfort of his own home too
<user82> yep true mhall119 ... with a guitar as company :D
<IdleOne> ah I see. he mentioned they started with the desktop in 2004 and you assumed that meant the phone os was already in the plans.
<user82> sounded to me like that
<IdleOne> well you heard it wrong.
<user82> non native to english...ok then
<IdleOne> In that case I can forgive you :)
<mhall119> user82: I'd say the guitar is comforting, but I'm not really into his style of music
<user82> mhall119 i must admit i usualy turned it off at the end
<IdleOne> we have florian's phoe number also now
<IdleOne> phone*
<user82> does that thing even have a phone app :D
<user82> (they never really showed it off did they)
<IdleOne> it does
<GuidoPallemans1> it even has a game
<IdleOne> but like he said most people don't use the phone as a phone
<GuidoPallemans1> the native app it has is the gallery app
<GuidoPallemans1> typical qml with ubuntu components
<mhall119> user82: the dialer interface is shown in several videos, it's about what you'd expect from a dialing interface
<popey> it does make calls
<user82> okay thanks for telling me
<user82> not that i would use ubuntu phone for phoning ^^
<user82> dualsim would be useful..but i guess that is not too common
<popey> why do people use dualsim?
<IdleOne> I think that video shows off the phone os beautifully
<popey> yeah, it's one of the better ones, more relaxed
<IdleOne> the swipes seemed to me to be more slow and deliberate then in other videos.
<user82> popey save money
<user82> best internet deal here best phone deal there
<popey> what country?
<GuidoPallemans1> If you slide from the right on the welcome screen, what happens? do you go back to the last-used app?
<IdleOne> that would seem logical to me
<IdleOne> but I don't know
<user82> popey germany
<user82> i have "sponsored surf" free internet and my old number everybody knows...no coomitment to the cheap other phone company
<mhall119> GuidoPallemans1: it seems to, yes
<sergiusens> popey: dual sim is good for when you get a corporate number from a company and also have a personal number, at least I wouldn't of been carrying two phones around :-)
<Ryan45> oh, it doesnt do phone calls
<Transhumanist> <popey> why do people use dualsim?
<Transhumanist> If Ubuntu is to be successfull in non-Western countries it MUST do dual-sim smoothly
<Transhumanist> Especially for the Indian population.
<Transhumanist> I don't know the exact reasons, but their sociopolitical situation seems to make it a necessity to have a dual-SIM phone over there.
<k1l_> or its quite common to have 2 girlfriends down there :)
<Transhumanist> Maybe, but I doubt it. Dual-SIM phones are extremely popular in other countries with vastly different cultures, such as China.
<Transhumanist> http://www.smh.com.au/business/dualsim-brings-roamer-home-20120725-22qqb.html
<chriadam> it's not sociopolitical, it's socioeconomic.  firstly, some carriers do calls for cheap, while others do sms for cheap.  it's more cost effective to have a couple of sims for that usecase.  secondly, in India especially, devices are often shared between multiple people (eg, family), and in those situations, using multiple sims is useful (can separate usage, can separate contacts, etc)
<Transhumanist> Yes, that's a better term.
<Ryan45> Some places use thier phones as thier banking
<Ryan45> A big chunk of the developing world is using phone usage as currency
<Transhumanist> Can you elaborate? Do you mean netbank?
<Ryan45> sure
<Transhumanist> I don't see how multiple SIMs help you netbank.
<Ryan45> ok
<Ryan45> you buy 20 min of talk time for $1, you want to transfer the money to someone else, they text another regional phone owner that you have 20 min and a family member can cash it out
<Ryan45> some areas are served by one or two providers
<Ryan45> or more
<Ryan45> but the area you want to transfer the money to is used by only one of the two
<Transhumanist> wait, you can convert unused talk time into actual currency (e.g. rupees)?
<Ryan45> yes, thats how they transfer money, this is mostly in africa
<Ryan45> they dont have banks
<Transhumanist> Interesting.
<Ryan45> one guy in the village gets a phone
<Ryan45> you buy some minutes from him and a family member in another area can cash them out
<Transhumanist> That's kind of beautiful.
<Ryan45> As someoneelse stated I think it's also possible that some areas "religious" leadership simply encourage people to be more sneaky
#ubuntu-phone 2013-01-10
<Ryan45> I wonder how long until one of the android launcher devs hijacks the sides idea
<Ryan45> and brings it to android
<iceroot> hijacking in open-source?
<Ryan45> lol, ubuntu has no source out :)
<Ryan45> unless i am missing something
<Ryan45> ubuntu phone
<owenburnett> Source should come out next month for installing on the  samsung galaxy nexus
<mhall119> Ryan45: source will be released at the same time as the binaries
<Ryan45> I was responding to iceroot
<Ryan45> not asking  question :) lol
<talus46> reetings
<talus46> greetings I mean
<Robbilie> hey guys i foundvarious sources saying ubu phone os will be released in feburary, but i didnt find a single official sure, can anybody provide me one?
<Tak> topic?
<talus46> hehe that was the question I wanted to ask when I get here , but the topic says it all
<talus46> Is there any plan to enable the instalation on android mobile phones?
<Robbilie> was there a recent update on the lnk? if not, i am aware f all the information provided there talus46
<Robbilie> ah ok now its there
<Robbilie> thanks
<bobweaver> From all the videos that I have bben watching yeah flash rom
<bobweaver> "zip file in the end"  dude said in a video
<bobweaver> I am board what pp should I make ?
<bobweaver> app *
<Robbilie> what have yyou developed yet?
<bobweaver> webbrowsing and apis so far
<bobweaver> I made like a bunch of xmllistmodel elements and stuff
<Robbilie> so a web browsing app wouldnt make much sense huh? :D
<bobweaver> Like things to watch hulu and what not
<chriadam> how about a gig browser?  uses your current location, to grab all the gigs in the local area, within a given time period.  Could filter by distance, genre, price.  Displays them on a map, integrates with a calendar.
<chriadam> i'm sure there are a billion of them already, now that I think about it
<bobweaver> yeah I have a jambase xmllistmodel ready for that but that is just jambase
<popey> bobweaver: maps app?
<popey> using OSM tiles
<bobweaver> Like nokia maps popey  ?
<popey> like any maps app âº
 * bobweaver dosent kniow what OSM is 
<popey> OpenStreetMap
<bobweaver> ahh
<popey> http://www.openstreetmap.org/
<bobweaver> http://imagebin.org/242371
<M4rtinK> I plan to port modRana: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/modrana/
<popey> hah
<M4rtinK> uses OSM tiles & supports both online & offline routing with spoken directions
<M4rtinK> + many other features
 * Tak wonder if any of his maemo apps survived
<bobweaver> but nokia maps is not the greatest it uses google maps api and does not have much in the sence of searching and what not
<chriadam> bobweaver: there's an OSM plugin for QtLocation floating around
<M4rtinK> Tak: I'm still supporting Maemo 5 by the way (heck even SHR@Neo FreeRunner with the GTK GUI :) )
<bobweaver> I will make popey gangnam style app that has him doing the dance
<bobweaver> chriadam,  cool stuff thanks
<bobweaver> qt4 ?
<bobweaver> popey,  anywhere that I can find a head shot of you ?
<popey> uhoh
<bobweaver> launchpad is not cut out
<bobweaver> I guess I could cut it out or I could make it so that you can add peoples heads to it
<bobweaver> this is going to be fun Ubuntu Community gangnam style app
<popey> speaking of maps bobweaver i just discovered http://www.refnum.com/tmp/apple.html which compares the tiles for Apple, OSM and Google maps
<bobweaver> that is cool
<blackouter> Hello people, is already secure to install ubuntu phone in my galaxy nexus? where I can found the OS for my phone?
<bobweaver> blackouter,  please read topic
<bobweaver> thanks
<bobweaver> !topic
<ubot5> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<blackouter> Thanks guys!
<bobweaver> er this is crazy I am trying to pull feed from Marks site and am having massive troubles
<schasch> bought me a galaxy nexus to make it UBUNTU....now waiting for end of FEB  :-)
<popey> bobweaver: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/feed ?
<bobweaver> Yeah popey,  I Think that I got it but my computer over I need more power lol
<bobweaver> namespace declaring was acting up
<bobweaver> It is the content that I am having trouble with because of the namespace
<bobweaver> content:encoded
<bobweaver>  QML XmlRole: invalid query: "item[1]/content:encoded/string()"
<bobweaver> I will ask on #qt-qml also
<bobweaver> SNAP   :/
 * bobweaver troubles are as follow's  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR8D3y8oy4A&
<Gaga> Anyone knows when Ubuntu Phone source will be available for free download? I am planning to port Ubuntu Phone on my i.MX53QSB board. Answer please.
<schasch> Gaga . see /topic
<Gaga> Please tell me what is "/topic" ?
<DJones> type /topic in your irc client
<DJones> That will give you info about the channel
<Gaga> I found it! Thank You!
<aeonwanderer> hello everybody i watched almost every demo at ces and i cant wait to try
<aeonwanderer> is there any ideas about customization
<as> getting restless
<mattlgroff> I got an information packet for OEM's and Operators at CES, and it says the high end version can run on an Intel Atom. x86 Ubuntu Phone anyone?
<popey> âº
<k1l_> x86 version is a clever move, imho. intel wants to push back into the mobile market. But Android is quite bound to ARM
<ubuntubhoy> hmm, the libhoudini stuff works pretty well TBH
<GuidoPallemans1> anyone else already developing qml apps?
<netcurli> at least trying to (and running into a few bugs with the beta :D) https://plus.google.com/u/0/111619044192746082060/posts/CZt2B4ARAez
<netcurli> the popups provided with ubuntu compontens seem also not to work flawlessly at the moment
<GuidoPallemans1> oh I'm making a Reddit app too :D
<GuidoPallemans1> but i'm kinda going for the full thing
<netcurli> that was just the first json api without api key I could find :D
<GuidoPallemans1> heh
<GuidoPallemans1> it's a really good api
<GuidoPallemans1> the reddit one
<netcurli> I haven't looked that deep into this
<GuidoPallemans1> the Ubuntu one looks very promising, but they need to eliminate bugs and document more...
<netcurli> jep, that's for sure
<GuidoPallemans1> and they really made a good choice on going with qml, that shit's easy yo
<GuidoPallemans1> care if I use your search function? I don't have one yet...
<GuidoPallemans1> (btw: #qt-qml )
<netcurli> go ahead and use it :) I like to see my code being used
<netcurli> what I put out in the open anyway
<GuidoPallemans1> thanks
<GuidoPallemans1> I will wait until the full sdk is released, can't really use it right nnow
<netcurli> I will go to sleep now, it's 1am here^^
#ubuntu-phone 2013-01-11
<mesquka> Hi
<mesquka> when can we expect ROM's for this?
<popey> mesquka: you know the answer to that question already
<mesquka> ???
<mesquka> not disclosed?
<Walther> mesquka: see the topic
<mesquka> ok
<mesquka> Thanks
<mesquka> Hi
<aquarius> dpm, if I'm creating a phone app, how do I know how big to make the window?
<aquarius> dpm, that is: imagine I want to have, for example, 6 Rectangles in a Row which is the width of the screen. I can use units.gu, but I don't know how big a screen is in gu
<aquarius> so I'm a bit confused by how the units stuff helps
<dpm> aquarius, it seems you're not the only one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/qml-toolkit/+bug/1096341. You can get the conversion from gu to pixels from http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/resolution-independence.html - if that does not help, I'd suggest pinging bzoltan, as he's way more knowledgeable than me on this subject
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1096341 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "GU image size advice is wrong" [Undecided,New]
<aquarius> dpm, heh. I read the stuff about resolution independence, indeed. I'll talk to zoltan :)
<dpm> ok, cool. I'll see if I can get someone from the SDK team to be on the public channel
<aquarius> wise
<aquarius> hey bzoltan1 :)
<bzoltan1> aquarius:  hello there
<aquarius> so, units.gu. i don't get it :)
 * popey listens also
 * popey pokes AlanBell 
<AlanBell> hi aquarius
<aquarius> heya AlanBell
<AlanBell> units.gu needs more of a justification for it's existence doesn't it
<AlanBell> "The grid unit defines a visual rhythm in Ubuntu" I think that visual rhythm is what it is about
<AlanBell> rather than any kind of resolution independence (which it doesn't achieve)
<user82> maybe this had been asked a thousand times: but are there any official announcements which phone the images will work on? or rumors esecially for nexus 4?
<Tak> it has, and the only phone that's been used for demos has been the galaxy nexus
<user82> thanks Tak
<user82> i kinda need a new phone now..but do not want to end up with one that does not support ubuntu later. i think nexus 4 is a "save" choice?
 * Tak shrug
<popey> user82: don't make a buying decision based on anything you see here âº
<popey> user82: anything could happen in the next half hour
<popey> s/half hour/few months/
<user82> yep popey i know.
<aquarius> AlanBell, agreed that it is abotu visual rhythm, not really resolution independence.
<aquarius> anyway, what happens is this: the phone will override any width/height set on the root element.
<aquarius> so, if you want your app to be sized right, then explicitly set width/height on the root element, and then calculate other sizes based on that, and it'll just owrk on the phone.
<aquarius> ideally for most apps we won't need explicit sizing anyway; should use anchors for as much as possble, because they're brilliant and this is what they're for :)
<AlanBell> aquarius: there is also rotation, and my understanding from zoltan's reply is that bit is not fully baked yet
<aquarius> right, but rotation isn't actually a thing. It's just a different size screen. :)
<AlanBell> nope, it is an event
<AlanBell> it could be more than the screen size dynamically changing
<aquarius> right, if you want your app to work differently when rotated, indeed
<aquarius> I personally never, ever, ever, ever want that, but I understand that some people do :)
<aquarius> and I can't really think of why you'd want rotation to do something to your app's layout that you wouldn't *also* do if your app finds itself in a wider-than-tall window anyway
<aquarius> which is why I don't think rotation is a thing
<AlanBell> it might not be a thing
<aquarius> (note: that's different from "reading the accelerometer settings" for things like driving games where you tilt the phone to steer round corners)
<aquarius> in my opinion, if your app creates itself a desktop window which is, say, 320x480, and I resize that window to 480x320, then it should do the very same identical thing as it would if it were on a phone and you rotated the phone to landscape rather than portrait
<AlanBell> possibly, yes
<aquarius> the point is not "it rotated", the point is "the screen size changed" :)
<mhall119> good morning folks
<popey> morning mhall119
<netcurli> will Ubuntu for Phones use pulseaudio and will I be able to use that directly from a qml/c++ app?
<atiti> aquarius, I think the screen ratio is more important then the screen size change
<atiti> so going from 320x480 => 480x320 you change the aspect ratio and that you could assume is due to rotation
<mhall119> netcurli: too early to tell, I think
<aquarius> atiti, perhaps, yeah, but I think the important point from my perspective is: what does your app do if I run it on the desktop and change its window size? If it makes sense to change the layout if the window is landscape-ish, then cool, do that. So I agree that what you generally care about is the aspect ratio of the screen rather than its actual pixel size
<atiti> hehe well for a desktop its a bit different
<atiti> i dont think i would want my say gnome-terminal to rotate when i resize it to a "tall" aspect ratio :p
<aquarius> heh :)
<aquarius> mhall119, if I've written a QML app using the Ubuntu sdk, what should I do with it? that is: are people just saying "here is a bzr branch" for the moment? or are people making debs and ppas and stuff?
<mhall119> aquarius: just branches or tarball atm, I think
<aquarius> cool. First app done, then :)
<mhall119> aquarius: and posting about it on the Ubuntu App Developers community on G+
<mhall119> \o/
<mhall119> aquarius: is it your U1DB-backed notes app?
<aquarius> mhall119, nope; I won't release that until we've got proper u1db bindings rather than my hacky Python prototype
<mhall119> aquarius: oh, QML data components backed by U1DB would be cool
<aquarius> agreed :)
<aquarius> but we need the base QML bindings in first
<aquarius> and then my notes app should Just Work :)
<mhall119> QML bindings or Qt bindings?
<donttrustem> Anyone have any info on the power consumption
<aquarius> I suspect we'll get both
<mhall119> donttrustem: nope
<aquarius> that is: I imagine the sdk team will make qt bindings and then make the qml ones on top
<aquarius> but that's not up to me, that's up to bzoltan ;)
<mhall119> aquarius: yeah, I think that's how it works
<donttrustem> Hmm! So it could die after an hour :)
<mhall119> donttrustem: or it could last for months without a recharge
<donttrustem> Please
<mhall119> sorry, I thought we were all exaggerating
<mhall119> donttrustem: It's safe to say that when it's available from an OEM, it'll have battery life that is comparable to other phones on the market
<bzoltan> aquarius:  Yes, in a way it is up to me :)
<donttrustem> K
<bzoltan> aquarius:  It will happen, sooner or later. It is on our backlogs and I just hope that we will have time to do it soon.
<mhall119> aquarius: are there C++ bindings for U1DB?
<aquarius> not yet. There are C bindings, though.
<aquarius> I suspect bzoltan's team will make c++qt bindings, but I don't know :)
<bzoltan> donttrustem:  I have been involved in the nokia N900-N950-N9 and I can tell you that reliable power consumption figures comes out at the very end of the development.
<donttrustem> Ok
<bzoltan> donttrustem:  and the reason is very simple. Either there are way too many R&D tools, processes, loggers, tracers on the development release that all measurement is pointless or the set of services and pre-started processes are  not frozen because of the negotiations with OEMs. But I can tell you that there is no such technology used in the Ubuntu Phone what would make the final product power consumption less efficient than any ot
<aquarius> mhall119, should I post this little app on G+ in the app dev community as "discussion" or "app showcase"? I don't know if "app showcase" is just to show off random apps or whether it's designed for the actual app dev competitions
<mhall119> aquarius: app showcase
<mhall119> it's just for showing off
<aquarius> posted.
<mhall119> aquarius: dude, that's an awesome game
<mhall119> need controls for slowing it down though...I wasn't able to keep up
<mhall119> but maybe that's just me
<aquarius> nah. It could *be* a bit more awesome, given time. My distinct lack of design skills do not help :)
<aquarius> ha! change "interval: 1500" to "interval: 2000" or something in the qml ;) I had it at 2000 and set it down a bit.
 * mhall119 goes to read the source
 * aquarius pushes a change to set the interval back to 2000 again
<mhall119> aquarius: that's seriously only 500 lines of code?
<aquarius> I love qml. :)
<aquarius> 21k of code; 300K of music; 900K of word list ;-)
<GuidoPallemans> what g+ app dev community?
<mhall119> GuidoPallemans: https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/111350780270925540549
<GuidoPallemans> thanks!
<mhall119> np
<aquarius> something I would like in the Ubuntu Components (a thing for bzoltan, this): a way for a QML app to get at /usr/share/dict/words or some similar thing :) Otherwise every pure QML app that cares about words needs to ship its own 1MB word dictionary.
<aquarius> a Dictionary{ language: "en" } component would be very nice.
<bzoltan> aquarius:  QML kind of dislikes file system IO stuff
<aquarius> bzoltan, indeed, which is why I'd like a component around which will do it and be a standard part of the toolkit. I packed an entire dictionary into JavaScript so I had access to a word list ;)
<bzoltan> at least not directly .. but yes, we can figure out some smart binding to access data like this
<aquarius> WordList rather than Dictionary, perhaps
<bzoltan> aquarius: good idea
<aquarius> but that'd be cool -- it makes things like Scrabble games much easier
<bzoltan> aquarius: Keep them coming :)
<mclane-> hi
<mhall119> aquarius: file a wishlist bug
<mhall119> so we can keep track of these things
<popey> i hope by sharing a room with aquarius some of his coding skill rubs off on me
<popey> that is not a euphamism
<AlanBell> bzoltan: does it run orca for accessibility or something else?
<mhall119> AlanBell: does orca run?
<AlanBell> well it might do in theory, there is a Qt accessibility bridge it should be inspectable
<AlanBell> and if this is really running Ubuntu then it should have speech dispatcher and espeak
<AlanBell> might need a QML user interface for orca, or it could just run without a UI
<mhall119> AlanBell: I've still never been able to get orca running decently, even on desktops
<AlanBell> whut
<AlanBell> normally just turn it on and it starts talking
<AlanBell> unity is a steaming pile of silence most of the time, but anything that is more gnomeish should work
<AlanBell> gtkish I mean
<AlanBell> the dash occasionally speaks categories, rarely speaks icons and never speaks the lens list. launcher and quicklists are OK.
<AlanBell> most of the testing and bug reporting I have done has been around ubiquity, getting the thing installed
<donttrustem> I have just been looking the ubuntu phone video and noticed that the phone being demonstrated has an edge connector on the side of it.  I have a nexus s  will this work
<popey> donttrustem: which demo?
<popey> the phone used in the Ubuntu for Phones demo is a Galaxy Nexus
<donttrustem> http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone
<donttrustem> I have a Samsung google nexus s
<donttrustem> Will ubuntu run on this
<mclane-> i dont think so
<mclane-> the minimum system requirements is cortex-A9 as I know
<mclane-> nexus S has an A8
<donttrustem> Really ..... Let me check
<mclane-> sorry, it says entry level
<donttrustem> It is an A8
<donttrustem> So it will not run ubuntu?
<donttrustem> Strange they look exactly the same
<donttrustem> Only difference is the CPU
<k1l_> donttrustem: the newest nexus4 looks the same, too. that is the point of the newer nexus devices. but the actual dev phone is a galaxy nexus
<donttrustem> I understand .... Going to see if I can get one off eBay
<mesquka> haha
<HackinBlack> So when are the phones suppose to come out
<HackinBlack> Earth to anyone
<mesquka> hi
<k1l_> HackinBlack: no phnes announced yet. dont know if there will be devices to ship ubuntu-phone in 2013
<mesquka> a developement image will come out but about late February, but it won't really start shipping until 2014
<Scrivener> Ubuntu Phone got a hardcore i-Fan friend of mine giggling with excitement. :)
<donttrustem> I am sure someone will get it to run on the google nexus s
<Scrivener> Just at the concept of unifying computing.
<Scrivener> People at the Ubuntu booths have said we should see handsets later this year...
<Scrivener> I guess that at least means announcements of them.
<Scrivener> They say they can't talk about what OEM conversations might be like atm.
<disharmonic> I'm really curious about what display server it uses tbh
<AlanBell> aquarius: one rotation related thing an app might do is say "I don't make sense in landscape, never rotate me"
<AlanBell> or vice versa
<aquarius> AlanBell, indeed. But that's a whole-app setting.
<aquarius> indeed, I saw something somewhere suggesting that Ubuntu Phone would by default be portrait, not rotate. But I may have misinterpreted it, and I can't remember where I saw it :0
<AlanBell> mailing list in reply to my question :)
<ubuntubhoy> would that be just the launcher though ?
<ubuntubhoy> games etc need landscape
<ubuntubhoy> as well as camera apps
<AlanBell> well aquarius's letter drop thing needs portrait
<aquarius> not sure I agree on the camera app.
<ubuntubhoy> why ?
<aquarius> agreed on games -- some games make much more sense landscape.
<AlanBell> videos must be shot vertical at all times \o/
<AlanBell> vvs
<aquarius> the camera just shows what it's pointed at. I mean, an actual physical camera can be turned through 90 degrees and take a picture, but its "UI" doesn't change when you do that.
<AlanBell> so you might have an "I am always landscape" app and an "I am always portrait" app in the switcher at the same time
<ubuntubhoy> I see no issue with that AlanBell
<popey> exif should indicate the rotation
<popey> so viewers can orientate it correctly later
<ubuntubhoy> aquarius: but you use a phone camera in a dif manner than a physical camera
<aquarius> popey, of course -- that's "an app reads the accelerometer", which is obviously something we want.
<AlanBell> I see no issue with it either ubuntubhoy, except you have two apps with a different coordinate system
<ubuntubhoy> and on switch it changes
<aquarius> it is not at all clear to me what happens if the phone is rotated because you're running a landscape app and you want to summon the launcher. *Presumably* you'll still pull from the long edge of the screen, even if that long edge is actually at the "bottom" now because you've rotated the phone.
<aquarius> the N9 was inconsistent and very, very annnoying on this particular point.
<ubuntubhoy> if the icons rotate, but the edge stays the same, that would probably be ok
<ubuntubhoy> not take too much getting used to
<aquarius> dunno. I shall be interested to see what's supposed to happen in that case :)
<AlanBell> this is stuff that needs to be designed in *early*
<ubuntubhoy> that I agree with
<aquarius> I'd be surprised if no-one's thought about it; I just don't know what the thoughts *are* :)
<ubuntubhoy> set the standard and stick with it
<AlanBell> whether or not rotation is transparent to apps (they just see a window resize) or they  get a rotation event and have to transform themselves but 0,0 in the coordinate space stays in the same place on the physical device
<AlanBell> it is fine if "no, we don't do landscape, at all, ever, it is a design thing" is the answer
<ubuntubhoy> then when designing a landscape app, you compensate for where on device 0,0 is
<aquarius> yeah. That'll be a problem for fullscreen immersive games, though, so I don't think that'll be the thing.
<AlanBell> dunno, it could be that games are not really what it is for
<aquarius> ah, I see waht you mean; device coords are always portrait, so if you want to make a landscape game you rotate your internal coordinate system
<AlanBell> indeed
<ubuntubhoy> was surprised to see firefox get a hardware partner
<AlanBell> oh?
<ubuntubhoy> ZTE
<aquarius> interesting idea from a bloke on g+, that the letters in my game should fall faster as time goes on, so it gets harder
<aquarius> also, I'd add accomplishments if the accomplishments people made a QML thing :)
 * aquarius mentions it
<cielak> does anyone know if Python is expected to run on PhoneOS?
<aquarius> it's a good question. It probably will, although I suspect the core apps will not be written in it. :)
#ubuntu-phone 2013-01-12
<AlanBell> http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/11/canonical-interview/
<AlanBell> live interview with sabdfl right now
<k1l> nice thanks
<vwade79> sup guys
<vwade79> i had a question about ubuntu  and the gnex and i thought u guys might know
<vwade79> will the gnex have the desktop compatability?
<vwade79> anyone
<vwade79> ?
<vwade79> aight ty anyways
<mesquka> Hi
<Ryan45> Hello
<Ryan45> Ubuntu people: Figure out how to sell refurbished Galaxy Nexus's
<mesquka> Hi
<mesquka> Ryan45: Galexy Nexus's are google and samsung, NOT canonical
<Ryan45> lol
<Ryan45> hence figure out how to sell them :)
<Ryan45> Somewhere out there is a refurbished stock pile :)
<mesquka> Ryan45: haha
<mesquka> Ryan45: ubuntu phone developers are creating a phone os, not loading phone OS's onto phones for people, that's for manufactures and OEM's
<Ryan45> Yes
<Ryan45> UP dev's are going to need a pool of test people
<Ryan45> A few places are selling refurbished galaxy nexus
<Ryan45> You know what would be handy
<Ryan45> A google voice dialer client.
<Ryan45> You can get the verizon nexus for $189
<Ryan45> on ebay refurbished, available in bulk
<Ryan45> hmm
<Ryan45> https://code.google.com/p/qgvdial/
<Ryan45> I might just get a Verizon nexus and use that.
<Ryan45> do wifi calling to start
<Ryan45> i can get one on ebay for $160 right now
<Ryan45> hmm
<Ryan45> sooo tempting
<Ryan45> I'd prefer a gsm so I can throw a sim card in for straighttalk (usa's only decent no contract carrier)
<Ryan45> wow
<Ryan45> http://www.cellpex.com/index.php?fuseaction=models.home&brand=Samsung&model=Galaxy+Nexus+I9250&section=1&type=1
<Ryan45> I could get 450 of them at $305 each
<Ryan45> GSM
<Ryan45> Ok, send a message to the guy who recently had 450 of them for sale. I am not sure what he has now, so I asked him if he still had access or would be interested in working to put together a group buy. As soon as that image drops I am sure a number of Ubuntu users are going to be interested in grabbing a GN.
<Ryan45> send/sent
<WanderingEnder> Ryan45, reminder: Verizon phones are locked. If that phone bill was ever not paid, you've bought a brick, as Verizon will never turn it on again until the original owner pays their full bill with penalties.
<mhall119> Ryan45: from what I've been told, only GSM is going to be supported in the released images
<mhall119> so don't get a CDMA phone if you want to use it for calls
#ubuntu-phone 2013-01-13
<mesquka> hi
<mhall119> one of these times mesquka is going to stick around for a responce
<Transhumanist> lol
<qrwteyrutiyoup> :)
<Transhumanist> You spelt 'qwerty' incorrectly.
<mhall119> maybe it's dvorak
<Transhumanist> hah, yes maybe
<mhall119> you know, with two t's and two y's and two u's
<qrwteyrutiyoup> Lol
<Ryan45> no response yet on the bulk galaxy nexus buy
<Ryan45> i'll keep working on it
<damian__^> hi, does someone know, will ubuntu mobile eventually be merged into ubuntu? so they are the same os? i have seen the galaxy nexus build and heard that you can simply bring it home, plug in a keyboard mouse and monitor and have a fill ubuntu desktop..?
<damian__^> full*
<damian__^> or will ubuntu mobile be a different os that also supports a full desktop?
<robin-gloster1> damian__^: ubuntu moblie IS the same OS
<damian__^> awesome :)
<blackout23> yes that's the whole idea instead of going the microsoft route which means making a completely different os for the tablet, phone and desktop and slap the phone ui on everything
<blackout23> anyone knows if there is a TODO list on what thing will go into the nexus image that will be released late february? Working software center maybe?
<damian__^> im assuming until code is released we have no related documents? but im just assuming
<damian__^> hopefully this will bring a new breed of devices/technology where we can just sit our phones in a dock or something and have a full blown keyboard/mouse/monitor pc
<damian__^> or maybe something like the padfone but a laptop version
<damian__^> being an android dev i find this all really exciting
<damian__^> (and a nerd, hehe)
<hourd> be cool to have something liek the motorola lapdock for ubuntuphone
<damian__^> wow didnt even know it existed. i like :)
<hourd> yeah, shame the phone failed
<hourd> but a great idea
<hourd> i can see it being used for ubuntu phone pretty quickly
<damian__^> wow, you can buy a 11.6 incher for $60USD. and hook up a raspberry pi or beagleboard.
<damian__^> maybe other phones can be made work with it, via hdmi out or something. interesting
<damian__^> we so need an ubuntu image for the droid's, defies etc. time will tell i guess
<damian__^> although google owns motorola now so...
<hourd> they don't own all of motorola do they?
<damian__^> from what i can tell they own all of it
<damian__^> http://www.robpol86.com/index.php/Atrix_Lapdock_Other_Uses#With_a_Galaxy_Nexus_.28Verizon_LTE.29
<damian__^> awesome! perfect for ubuntu mobile!
<hourd> [Bimpressive
<hourd> [B[B[B[Bglad to be of help
<hourd> sorry about my terminal lag there
<damian__^> i own the galaxy nexus and am patiently awaiting ubuntu mobile. just ordered a lapdock on ebay. $70 (cheap!!). you made my day :)
<damian__^> np :)
<hourd> wish i had a galaxy nexus, i have a desire z
<damian__^> nothing wrong with that :) but even the galaxy is old news nowdays, with all the 1080 screened thousand core phones coming out lol
<damian__^> http://clamcase.com/clambook-android-and-iphone-laptop-dock.html
<damian__^> anyway bedtime. nice talking and thanks :)
<hourd> oooo how about ubuntu phone plus an oculus rift
<disharmonic> damian__^, Galaxy Nexus is relatively current still. It's not bleeding edge but it's faster than any midrage phone still. That will change in 6-9 months though
<blackout23> The reason why I bought a Nexus last August was because Apple tried to ban the sale of it in the US. It's my first smartphone and if Apple hates this device so much it must be pretty kickass.
<hourd> haha nice logic
<blackout23> A friend of mine got a Nexus 4 a few weeks ago and I still like my Galaxy more than the 4th gen Nexus
<blackout23> the AMOLD screen is just so much better than LCD especially when opening the App drawer with a black background
<blackout23> on the Galaxy it's just pitch black on the Nexus 4 it's more grey
<hourd> interesting
<blackout23> speed when using the device is the same and the Galaxy is more robust when dropped
<hourd> ive been looking at a nexus4
<hourd> mainly the price is great
<blackout23> if you have a GNex and don't use it for super intense stuff like gaming it's not worth it
<blackout23> I hate having glass on both sides
<hourd> i run on a desire z... its getting a little slugish and the keyboard is getting hard to use
<blackout23> and the toch screen of the Gnex is better. Nexus 4 suffers from the same problems as the iPhone 5 where the touch sensor is embeeded in the display cells
<blackout23> when doing a pinch to zoom it takes longer for the nexus 4 to register that you are moving them away from each other
<hourd> hmmmmm
<blackout23> with the Galaxy it is instant
<blackout23> also don't like having Chrome as default browser because the stock Android browser is faster at the moment
<hourd> im just looking for a phone which will run ubuntu now. the project has really got me excited
<blackout23> me too I'm using CM 10.1 on my Nexus and everythiing is very nice
<blackout23> but since I don't use any apps from the app store I'd switch to Ubuntu for having real linux
<hourd> id gladly give up all my android apps for proper linux
<hourd> they are all just make-shift for proper functionality
<blackout23> I'm using Whats App but that is not crictical and might come to Ubuntu later
<hourd> i hope ubuntu phone has a nice terminal on the phone interface
<blackout23> there are 20 different terminals for linux I bet someone will port one of them to Qt with a nice interface
<hourd> indeed
<netcurli> there are also already terminal emulators written in qml like https://github.com/jorgen/yat
<hourd> i use linux for all my day-to-day needs, so having it on my phone with the same functionality will be fantastic
<blackout23> I might even switch back to Ubuntu or at least a Ubuntu based distro like mint from Arch Linux at least on one of my PCs
<hourd> yeah im on mint right now
<blackout23> I'm using cinnamon on arch. Really nice desktop.
<hourd> yeah i use cinnamon too
<blackout23> classical desktop is still the best.
<blackout23> can't live without a proper taskbar where i see open windows
<hourd> will have it on ubuntu phone too
<netcurli> I use docky as a panel
<blackout23> i tried some panels like awm, docky etc but wasn't really satisfied with any of them
<blackout23> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JISeFQ_1QzU#t=200s this is what I'm most excited abot. This device has the same hardware as the Gnex which is used for demoing right now.
<blackout23> I always wanted a media center where I could show some photos to my familiy right from the Ubuntu One cloud but I don't want another box standing around.
<hourd> thats nice :)
<harushimo> has the phone been released?
<blackout23> nope
<k1l> see topic
<harushimo> nice
<atiti> damn end of feb
<atiti> still a long time
<hourd> want an early release
<hourd> not that i have good enough hardware to put it on anyway
<salmaan> Can we use GCC on Ubuntu for Phone? I have an application Fortran, which I wanna port to Ubuntu for Phones.
<blackout23> probably i think there is an arm version of gcc
<blackout23> sou you can compile stuff on your phone will take a while probably
<salmaan> thanks @blackout23. You were right.
<atiti> yea salmaan you should be able to
<atiti> almost everything that you have on the x86 ubuntu has an arm version
<atiti> except the closed source, binary only stuff
<salmaan> @atiti, thanks. UBUNTU REALLY ROCKS
<salmaan> .
<hourd> most debian stuff works on arm, or you could compile it yourself
<hourd> look at raspberry pi project
