#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-15
<lapo> hi
<Firebird8> hello
<lapo> hi
<andreasn> hey there Firebird8
<Firebird8> is tango gonna be the official theme?
<Firebird8> i like the human theme
<andreasn> for Ubuntu Dapper?
<lapo> nope just a fallback
<Firebird8> k
<lapo> sadly :-)
<Firebird8> i made an icon for the rythm box
<lapo> tango style?
<lapo> show
<Firebird8> yea
<Firebird8> one sec
<andreasn> would have been nice to have a theme that went well with application icons and that works well with other distros
<andreasn> but you can't get everything
<Firebird8> mmm
<andreasn> it's good that we got both tangerine and tango in main though
<lapo> yep
<Firebird8> http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/801/rythm4eb.png
<Firebird8> lapo, http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/801/rythm4eb.png
<andreasn> is that a hifi-box?
<Firebird8> mmmm
<Firebird8> no?
<Firebird8> audio reciever
<lapo> hi there
<lapo> hi
<omeg> Hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-16
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<lapo> hi
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#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-17
<lapo> g'morning
<PrimoTurbo> So little people here
<andreasn> hm, yep
<PrimoTurbo> So what's happening with the art work direction?
<andreasn> I'm fixing bugs in tangerine mostly
<jc-denton> y0
<jc-denton> http://phuturetech.info/tmp/Install%20Party.png
<KaiL> ..hi all
<KaiL> am I the only one, who dislikes the new usplash?
<andreasn> KaiL: haven't seen it yet I'm afraid
<KaiL> the border of the ubuntu-logo looks awefull (aliasing!), the "done" text is black on black, the normal text gray on black....
<KaiL> and the status bar is gray and becomes black (on black)
<andreasn> hm
<andreasn> I see
<KaiL> the old didn't look THAT good, but this is really awefull
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-18
<lapo> hi
<Firebird8> omfg wth happened to the boot screen!
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-19
<NRG88> anyone here? :)
<tapox> Just me, after he told you it was in here.
<NRG88> anyone who is in the arwork team? :)
<lapo> hi NRG88
<NRG88> hi, you're in the artwork team?
<NRG88> of dapper?
<lapo> tangerine
<NRG88> cool
<NRG88> well, i nopticed the new usplash theme
<NRG88> and i think many of ubuntu users did
<lapo> I think it's not the final one, don't worry :-)
<NRG88> there's even a topic in ubuntuforums saying it's ugly :)
<NRG88> we found a nice looking theme
<NRG88> it's very sleek: http://www.ffnn.nl/media/external/ubuntu/usplash/minimalistic-working-full.jpg
<lapo> I think the bg have to be black
<NRG88> why?
<lapo> variuos reasons
<lapo> btw I'm not involved in uspalsh sorry
<NRG88> ok, thanks
<Shirlz> Hello
<andreasn> hey
<Shirlz> Hows it going?
<andreasn> I'm cleaning out my apartment and are planning to fix some tangerine-stuff tonight
<Shirlz> lovely!
<Shirlz> You maintain the tangerine pack then?
<andreasn> yep
<Shirlz> :) nice
<Shirlz> www.pigginempire.co.uk/wordpress
<Shirlz> some of my stuff.
<andreasn> or rather, dholbach maintain it, but he merge all the stuff from me
<Shirlz> Not fantastic, but not bad :)
<Shirlz> *My graphics that is, not yours
<andreasn> I like the 3tunes logo a lot
<Shirlz> :) thanks
<Shirlz> Does ubuntu use .ico, png or svg?
<andreasn> png and svg
<Shirlz> nice.
<andreasn> in tango (and tangerine) we use png for the 16x16 and 22x22 sizes and svg for the scalable size (48x48)
<Shirlz> I see..
<Shirlz> You made any other icons/icon packs?
<andreasn> not really, did some graphics for freecraft back in the days when that project was active
<andreasn> and some stuff for the gnome-icon-theme refresh
<andreasn> in tango style
<Shirlz> cool.
<Shirlz> Is this channel usually so quiet?
<andreasn> did the new icons for scribus and are working on some new ones for inkscape
<andreasn> it's awfully quitet most of the time
<andreasn> but there is lots of discussion on the ubuntu-art mailing list
<Shirlz> i see..
<Shirlz> Do you do anything commercial, or just open source stuff?
<andreasn> mostly free software-stuff
<andreasn> but freelance work from time to time
<Shirlz> yeah..
<Shirlz> Photoshopper? Illustrator? GIMPER?
<andreasn> Inkscaper and gimper
<andreasn> but I do some work in Illustrator, Indesign and Photoshop when the client wants me to
<Shirlz> i see.
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-20
<dizz1> silence is gold?
<dizz1> so you think that the icons fo games should be redesigned
<dizz1> ?
<dizz1> right?
<nysosym> yes i think :)
<nysosym> games and multimedia
<nysosym> too blurry
<dizz1> your proposition!
<dizz1> yes they are
<nysosym> yes only mine :-/
<dizz1> have you seen this?
<dizz1> http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/ic/
<nysosym> also the graphic icon isn`t perfect
<dizz1> i will ask you once more: can you design icons?
<dizz1> graphics is awfull!
<nysosym> dizz1, a little bit with Inkscape
<dizz1> have you made something?
<dizz1> as alternative?
<nysosym> no, but other graphics for some webpages :D
<dizz1> cool
<nysosym> maybe ^^
<dizz1> are you going to submit new icons for games and sound&video?
<dizz1> dont loose your time
<dizz1> before someone does it for you
<nysosym> maybe i doesn`t have much time for next weeks :(
<dizz1> i think that the GNOME -ICONS are pretty cool
<dizz1> but they are old
<dizz1> they are recognizeable
<nysosym> yes agree :)
<nysosym> but the concept of the "Human" icons is really nice! :)
<dizz1> yes, yes
<dizz1> are we alone here?
<nysosym> hmm i think, its toooooo silence :-/
<andreasn> hey
<doctormo> I'm alive!
<marcin_> hi guys
<marcin_> I just upgraded to latest dapper and someone "solved" bug...
<marcin_> thrash icon was too simmilar to battery icon... and now this "new" thrash icon is ohh sooo ugly...
<marcin_> could someone please do with this again?
<andreasn> in Human or in Tangerine?
<marcin_> Human
<andreasn> beond my control I'm afraid
<marcin_> ohh and new 'internet' icon... it looks like an old 'andersen consulting' logo :(
<andreasn> have you tried the tangerine theme, some people find that one rather nice
<andreasn> ?
<marcin_> yes I sometimes use this icon set.. but I also just like to take a look what's going on with default ubuntu look and feel
<andreasn> I peek at human from time to time aswell
<marcin_> and these changes are imho bad :(
<marcin_> ( I like 'folders' icons in human - they are really nice)
<andreasn> but as I'm in charge of the tangerine-stuff, I seldom use anything else
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-05-21
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> hi all
<kwwii> can anyone tell me where the usplash ideas for dapper are?
<kwwii> hi jimmac :-)
<cas> Hi, Is someone here who's responsible for the icons in ubuntu?
<cas> I just have updated the new set (dapper+1) but I think there went something wrong with the OO.o icons. The writer looks like impressions and Draw and Math don't fit in.
<cas> sorry never mind, I just found the bugreport
<cas> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-artwork/+bug/44934 if anyone got interested
<jimmac> howdy kwwii
<nysosym> hi all
<nysosym> ?
<nysosym> only silence inside? ^^
<kwwii> hi
<nysosym> is only my "graphic" icon in gnome panel blurry or is this a regular "bug" ?
<kwwii> sounds like a bug, perhaps it does not find the right size
<nysosym> http://img327.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blurryicon3co.jpg  << here my problem by "Grafik"
<mdke> hi there
<mdke> the yellow trashcan for tangerine is not good: it clashes with the orange in the workspace selector right next to it, and the orange in the bottom right of maximised windows, like browsers
<mdke> any chance of an orange trashcan?
<omeg> Wooh, progress on the wiki
<andreasn> huh?
<omeg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Usplash/DapperPropositions
<omeg> People have been posting propositions for a new splash screen since Mark asked them to on the mailing list.
<omeg> I also posted a few at the bottom (currently, as of this revision, they're at the bottom, by Michiel3)
<omeg> I'm waiting for TroySobotka to stop editing so I can post some more.
<kwwii> omeg: killer stuff you made
<kwwii> erm....guess you did not make them
<kwwii> ?
<andreasn> hey kwwii
<kwwii> howdy andreasn
<omeg> kwwii: depends on which ones you mean?
<omeg> Omeg == Michiel3 on the wiki.
<kwwii> cool, then you did make them :-)
<omeg> Maybe a little confusing. Maybe I should just try and change my nickname to "Msikma" everywhere...
<omeg> Thanks :)
<kwwii> the different nicks confused me
<kwwii> are those pics in 16 colors already?
<omeg> By the way, I think yours are really nice too, but it might benefit from being a little larger. That way, the bevel-like lighter color that you've given yours would look a little better (and would help the conversation to 16 colors, probably).
<omeg> Yeah, they are.
<kwwii> yes, you are right about the size
<omeg> I had to manually tweak the palette a little to make sure the shadow gets less colors and the body a few more, due to the gradients, though.
<kwwii> I made them bigger but scaled them down for some reason :-)
<omeg> Did you make them in Inkscape?
<kwwii> the glow comes over very well...better than in older ones I saw
<kwwii> yepp
<omeg> The older ones that you saw were probably already reduced in size to adhere to the screen stretching, that kind of kills the dithering if you don't do it from 16.7m colors to 16 colors.
<omeg> I really need to get Inkscape.
<omeg> I'm not sure if it will make me want to stop using Illustrator, though...
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> I like AI a lot too
<kwwii> the interface is much better
<kwwii> and some of the functions work simply better, like the gradient editor
<omeg> Hmmm
<omeg> The dithering on that last image is a little off on top of the logo
<kwwii> yeah
<andreasn> I more fond of inkscape than illustrator, as it works better when doing icons
<kwwii> from what I gather the simple logo is a very popular alternativce
<kwwii> andreasn: the icon preview function rocks
<andreasn> I never made that work for me
<omeg> By the way, how do you attach images in a wiki page?
<omeg> I just link to my personal webspace at the moment.
<kwwii> I load them to my webserver
<kwwii> but it appears that an attachmet: tag is in it, not sure how that works
<omeg> By the way, kwwii, I think you should post your mockups without the squishing that would make it ready for use in a real boot screen. Just so we can get a better view of how it will actually look.
<kwwii> hehe, now that I look at the pics I submitted, I have to admit that I did use AI to make them
<kwwii> omeg: yeah, I was thinking that too
<omeg> Hmm... can't embed an aspect ratio in PNG images, right?
<kwwii> nope
<kwwii> and the ignorant gwenview in kde always smooths scaled pics
<omeg> I'm thinking that I should keep a blog about ubuntu development.
<omeg> There are usually interesting things being mentioned in the mailing lists.
<omeg> It's something that could be worth writing about. Few screenshots of new cool stuff here and there.
<omeg> Do you think people would like to read that?
<kwwii> very true
<kwwii> I know that I spent hours looking for info
<kwwii> write a nice page on how to make usplash artwork and include the correct colormap info :-)
<omeg> Yeah, I would. I think that it might be a cool idea.
<omeg> I've never (seriously) blogged before, though, so I hope I won't get bored :)
<kwwii> I am not much of a blogger either
<andreasn> kwwii: do you know who the maintainer of the high-contrast theme for kde is?
<omeg> Finally, I have a lock on the wikipage
<andreasn> kwwii: as you are into kde-artwork a bit better than I am
<kwwii> andreasn: hehe, you want to start a fight, don't you?
<kwwii> lol
<andreasn> what?
<kwwii> andreasn: I guess the best person to ask would be either james richard tryer
<kwwii> or the accesability peeps
<andreasn> cool
<kwwii> the schmidt brothers
<andreasn> drawing some kind of todo-list for myself, so I thought I should check some stuff
<andreasn> why would I start a fight?
<kwwii> there is a bigger issue concerning the fact that I, as kde artwork maintainer, told James to take care of the low and hicolor stuff and most of his patches get reverted
<kwwii> but it is the bigger issue about how one interprets the xdg spec and how much the kde devs want to implement it correctly
<andreasn> the xdg icon spec, or the naming-spec?
<andreasn> or theme-spec or whatever it's called
<kwwii> the xdg icon spec (specifically the part about the hicolor dir)
<kwwii> long story made short: do all default icons belong in hicolor or only 3rd party apps
<andreasn> ah
<kwwii> the spec is very specific at the beginning and then at the end adds a bit of artistic stuff which leads to different interpretations
<andreasn> you mean "It is recommended that the icons installed in the hicolor theme look neutral, since it is a fallback theme that will be used in combination with some very different looking themes. But if you don't have any neutral icon, please install whatever icon you have in the hicolor theme so that all applications get at least some icon in all themes."
<omeg> Man, I have so many plans for Edgy.
<omeg> I just got into development, though I've been monitoring the mailing lists a little.
<andreasn> yeah, that's a bit tricky to imprent
<andreasn> as I understand it, what is in the naming-spec goes into the theme, the rest gets installed by the apps into hicolor
<kwwii> andreasn: exactly, and the hard part for me to understand is how several desktops/default-icon-themes can all install icons into hicolor
<andreasn> but that means we need the naming-spec to be really good
<kwwii> yeah, if the naming spec could cover that it would be nice, but I am afraid that the naming spec will get too complicated
<andreasn> complicated in what way?
<kwwii> take this case for instance: how could more than one default theme install icons in the same dir?
<kwwii> it will only work if there is only one default theme for all desktops/window managers
<kwwii> and there are soooo many out there
<andreasn> yeah, I see what you mean
<kwwii> the naming spec would have to be able to sort that out...but I have no idea how
<andreasn> me neither, it would be bad to put every app on earth in there
<kwwii> the thing is this: in gnome, every kde app is a 3rd party app, and vice versa
<andreasn> say that you get all the normal stuff covered by the naming-spec, then you would only have the app-icon looking out of place
<andreasn> and if that is a issue, the distro could provide a package with icons that overrides those app-icons
<kwwii> andreasn: I think you will be amazed at how many kde apps use different icons
<kwwii> I mean, the amarok guys are making their own theme just for amarok
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-14
<coz_> so are people awake here this evening? well evening here anyway :)
<wedderburn> its mid arvo in aus
<troy_s> coz_: cozzy baby
<coz_> wedderburn, oh ! I forgive you :)   although I am still jealous you are in austrailia
<troy_s> coz_: how goes it my brother?
<coz_> troy_s, hey guy :)
<troy_s> coz_: Bah -- island of convicts -- nothing to be envious of.
<coz_> troy_s, `not bad how about yourserlfg
<troy_s> lol
<wedderburn> coz_: where abouts are you?
<coz_> wedderburn, I am in east coast US the state of Pennsylvania
<wedderburn> ah yeah
<coz_> actually its not a state its a common wealth but thats another story
<coz_> troy_s, so how goes the art team at this point?
<wedderburn> kinda like how aus is split  7 ways but only 5 are states?
<coz_> wedderburn, really didnt know that
<troy_s> coz_: Same is as same as.
<troy_s> coz_: What do you think of Feisty?
<wedderburn> woah wait im forgetting tasmania 8 ways but 5 are states
<wedderburn> :-p
<troy_s> coz_: Type your thoughts... brb
<coz_> troy_s, yikes I was hoping for better news than that.... fesity is fine its ok the art sucks but the system runs :)
<coz_> wedderburn, :)
<coz_> I was kind of hoping things might be different for the up and coming ubuntu ?
<coz_> I guess not right?
<troy_s> coz_: LOL
<troy_s> coz_: Who are you directing that question at?
<coz_> troy_s, anyone who can answer it
<coz_> :)
<troy_s> coz_: and instead of sucks, could you elaborate into something that reads a little better?
<troy_s> coz_: Do you mean 'different' as in different process?
<coz_> troy_s, sure lol, well as you are well aware the default image on feisty is a bit washed out too simplifies for my taste
<troy_s> is it an image... lol.
<coz_>  troy_s lol
<coz_> troy_s, well for the "things being different" thing... i was hoping maybe some things have changes interms of shuttlworth and the art team haveing a closer relationship?
<troy_s> I think if such a thing were to be proposed, it might be very illusiory
<coz_> troy_s, really? thats sad
<troy_s> I suspect it is business as usual, with the 'what do you think of this or that' style approach
<troy_s> to up the 'inclusion' value.
<troy_s> that said, I could very well be very wrong.
<coz_> troy_s, interesting I have reading some quotes by programmers and their ideas of the differences or similarities of art and programming and does programming fall into the catgory of art
<troy_s> coz_: And for our parts, I would argue that we don't have a leg to stand on as no one has generated anything as a viable alternative.
<troy_s> coz_: So it is, in reality, partially our fault.
<coz_> troy_s, well you may be right,
<troy_s> coz_: Which is why, if you believe in attempting to create change, one must do so first before one can expect any sort of offering extended.
<coz_> troy_s, I will have to think abou that one :)
<coz_> troy_s, what were you thing with the " no one has generated anything as viable alternative" statement?
<coz_> thinking not thing
<troy_s> well... i think as a community we really need to step up and generate a body of work.
<troy_s> which is why nothlits rallying of the troops is important of late.
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> (i of course still flail away with that gg package working on, etc)
<coz_> troy_s, a body of work consiting of what
<troy_s> a design / look
<troy_s> for the desktop
<coz_> troy_s, oh  but not just the desktop right? the whole look of the system
<troy_s> i would at least _aim_ for that.
<troy_s> my feeling is that to embody the os, you don't need to do ALL the icons etc...
<troy_s> perhaps 10 of the high visibility
<troy_s> the sound design
<troy_s> usplash
<troy_s> gdm / logon splash / desktop wallpaper
<troy_s> and metacity / gdm theme
<troy_s> erk
<troy_s> gtk theme
<coz_> troy_s, i always thought one african theme would be nice however considering the areas that ubuntu goes into I am not sure tha twould be a good idea
<troy_s> i think african is probably too heavy in terms of a motif.
<coz_> troy_s, absolutely
<troy_s> again, just a gut.
<troy_s> what i was hoping was that we could knock out a series of themes aimed at the more atypical free software user
<troy_s> being the mainstream
<troy_s> mature folk
<troy_s> (say 18-36)
<troy_s> those with some degree of financial clout, etc.
<coz_> troy_s, that is mature folk? :)
<troy_s> well...
<troy_s> its mature in terms of ...
<troy_s> compared to say, the 12 year old gnome-look enthusiast.
<troy_s> lol
<coz_> oh :)
<troy_s> but it is mature
<troy_s> without being decrepit -- as in mature enough to influence significant change in a company.
<troy_s> and not quite decrepit say, such as myself.
<troy_s> lol
<coz_> troy_s, have ideas come from anyone with some consistency
<troy_s> other than the side projects, not exactly.  although I have quite high hopes for what nothlit is migrating towards.
<coz_> troy_s, any examples to link to?
<troy_s> coz_: More infrastructure right now pertaining to trying to build on a communication motif etc.
<coz_> i see
<troy_s> its a pretty open forum at the moment... iirc the vote ended up being
<troy_s> collaboration and ... grr hold.
<coz_> hmm
<coz_> so is there a leaning towards a more conservative , clean, sleek look ?
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/CommunityTheme/Collaboration+Progress
<troy_s> i hope not
<troy_s> i think the window is wide open
<troy_s> coz_: I would like to see _many_ different approaches, but again, people need to stand up and contribute really.
<troy_s> i am still working u2 towards an alpha package as well as a few other projects, so my attention is quite torn at the moment.
<coz_> troy_s, I understand...well I have to admit I have been somewhat removed for a while since my last encounter with the ubuntu people
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> get over it you bugger.
<troy_s> those are FORUM people
<coz_> :)
<coz_> I understand  just bothers me that such young people sound like old men
<coz_> well I guess I can get back to work on some things and upload them for at least you to look at at some point
<troy_s> hrm.. you have new work?
<troy_s> have you tried some work in inkscape?
<coz_> troy_s, well at the moment they are just concepts
<troy_s> it really has evolved into quite the bloody tool
<troy_s> i put up a half finished piece
<coz_> troy_s, yes I hve been working with inkscape qute a bit to get familiar witht he vocabulary of the app
<troy_s> on my blogzone
<troy_s> it is _sooooo_ good... even for traditional art.
<coz_> troy_s, can is see it?
<troy_s> troy-sobotka.blogspot.com
<coz_> troy_s, very nice :)
<troy_s> just an experiment, but i have thus far been pleasantly surprised.
<coz_> www.coz1.blogspot.com   is mine with some of my older boring pieces
<troy_s> so you have some new stuff down the pipe?
<troy_s> wow that macro photo sort of hair follicle refraction is ... eerily awsome.
<coz_> troy_s, I do have some ideas that have been developing but with my support time in #beryl I haven't had time to get them put them into a visula at all
<troy_s> is that lion a painting?  i canna tell
<coz_> troy_s, yes it is
<wedderburn> troy_s: have you seen this http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=445758662&context=set-72157600046909364&size=o ?
<troy_s> and coz you dumb fecker... use the blogger embed thing for images then you can click to get bigger versions
<coz_> troy_s, lol
<troy_s> for example, click on the portrait of my daughter you'll see what i mean
<coz_> wedderburn, woodgrain :)
<troy_s> just pick your image size and goo
<wedderburn> coz_: yeah i thought it looked really nice like ages when i last saw it
<troy_s> wedderburn: You saw the early u2 stuff yes?
<wedderburn> yes i have
<coz_> wedderburn, i like it as well :)
<troy_s> yeah... we tried textures
<troy_s> in the end, went away with it.
<troy_s> and into the current state...
<wedderburn> didn't think much of the  min max close buttons though
<troy_s> i love the wood, but it is a tad on point
<wedderburn> on the u2 art
<coz_> troy_s, my nephew forces me to start a blog and after I heard that song "istarted a blog" I though ok why not :)
<troy_s> wedderburn: totally changed
<wedderburn> really
* wedderburn goes to look
<troy_s> wedderburn: more uh... evolutionary process...
<troy_s> wedderburn: that was the point, put the shit up even knowing that it would likely change
<coz_> hmm I better get started with some of these ideas  then   I feel left out :)
<troy_s> coz_: where is the bigger link for the lion painting?
<wedderburn> troy_s: piff it at a wall and see what sticks?
<coz_> troy_s, i don't have one I removed all my work from ubuntuforums but I can upload it if you want to see it  if I can find the damn thing
<wedderburn> does anyone outside of aus use the word pift ?
<coz_> wedderburn, pift?  mm what does it mean?
<wedderburn> to throw
<wedderburn> to piff something
<wedderburn> or have something piffed at you
<coz_> wedderburn, no never heard that in the US yet!
<coz_> wedderburn, we use  'pissed: here :)
<wedderburn> yeah so do we
<coz_> lol
<wedderburn> when we discribe someone whos drunk
<coz_> actually we just use somting thrown at you
<wedderburn> thats odd
<coz_> wedderburn, that is typically british isnt it?
<wedderburn> coz_: piff of pissed?
<troy_s> wedderburn: yes... throw shit at wall... not so much to see if it sticks, but even while you are working / evolving.
<troy_s> with the hopes that perhaps, even through the intermediate versions, you stir something in someone else.
<troy_s> i _loved_ the textures, but it just wasn't coming together.
<coz_> wedderburn, `well if someone had something happen to them unexpected then we woudl say that was thrown at them or it came from left field
<troy_s> so had to take a different route.
<coz_> wedderburn, if you meant literally thrown at them then we just say  "what the f*** was that?
<wedderburn> sounds about right
<wedderburn> though we would call them a bloody yob after ;)
<coz_> ah oh a bloddy yob ????
<wedderburn> bloody yobbo
<coz_> wedderburn, ok that needs even more explanation
<coz_> :)
<wedderburn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yobbo
<coz_> wedderburn, ooo you wouldnt say stuff like that where i live
<coz_> :)
<coz_> wedderburn, this is all working class here always has been
<wedderburn> it can be used as a compliment
<coz_> troy_s, I will try to get busy on some of these ideas and let you take a look at them
<wedderburn> depends where yo uare
<coz_> wedderburn, true :)
<wedderburn> now you know what a bogan is right?
<coz_> wedderburn, no  !!!
<wedderburn> its like another word for yobbo but less insulting
<coz_> wedderburn, mm must be interesting in austrailia
<wedderburn> yeah you can use all these words and no one from the states can understand a word of it
<coz_> well guys I happen to live in the US and it is now 11:39 PM  and i am getting tired....nice talking with both of you and troy_s i will start work on some of this stuff soon and let you know when I upload it  night to both of you
<coz_> wedderburn,:)
<troy_s> wedderburn: Did I mention craig mullens sent me email two days ago!?
<troy_s> wedderburn: How cool is that?
<wedderburn> who?
<troy_s> wedderburn: uh oh
<troy_s> wedderburn: You probably wouldn't give a shit then... lol
<troy_s> wedderburn: http://www.goodbrush.com/
<wedderburn> reading
<wedderburn> :Pjust got back from tech support for my dad
<troy_s> wedderburn: Very talented fecking guy... very busy too -- he is booked right up till' November on some very high visibility projects.
<wedderburn> wow
<wedderburn> thats pretty good
<troy_s> lol
<wedderburn> troy_s: so bit of a honor that he took some time to email?
<troy_s> well not exactly
<troy_s> it is regarding that feature film thing
<troy_s> he did the covers of the novels
<troy_s> erm let me find a link
<troy_s> http://www.amazon.ca/When-Gravity-Fails-George-Effinger/dp/0765313588/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/702-3959575-2940039?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179115892&sr=8-1
<troy_s> that's the first of the trilogy
<troy_s> anyways, that's his art
<troy_s> wedderburn: very bloody talented guy.
<wedderburn> :)
<wedderburn> troy_s: so anything good planned for gusty's ubuntu art?
<troy_s> wedderburn: Lol.  in what capacity?
<wedderburn> shrug
<troy_s> wedderburn: Well that's bout the answer then :)
<troy_s> Although i hear there is this really revolutionary motif coming around !!!  Earth / Air / Water / Fire etc.
* troy_s thuds.
<wedderburn> :P
<nothlit> troy_s: holy crud you're right people don't get it--theyre still focusing on widget shapes, copying osx and reading what i've layed out and immediately equating it to what's been done already
<nothlit> troy_s: i had hoped people could contribute more in this decision stage =/
<nothlit> otherwise it just becomes what you or i see with no extraneous input
<troy_s> nothlit: It's one part education, one part execution, and three parts brute force.
<troy_s> nothlit: The BEST part of the fun and games
<troy_s> nothlit: Is that IF, and that is a BIG IF,
<troy_s> nothlit: IF Ubuntu design actually embodied those principles on SOME level, we probably wouldn't be attempting to execute the project.
<troy_s> nothlit: I would say to that post, please point to the design that embodies that.
<troy_s> nothlit:  I guess I would love someone to please point me to a successful design campaign that wasn't the byproduct of some serious brainstorming and discussion.
<nothlit> troy_s: a design campaign? few if any. if design is the main focus, in order to carry itself it has to have thought and vision applied, there isn't really dumb luck in design itself
<nothlit> troy_s: otherwise-- if design isn't the focus, i suppose there are grassroots campaigns where the message is far more important the the mode of delivery
<nothlit> troy_s: you aren't serious about the elements thing for gutsy are you?
<troy_s> kawhat?
<troy_s> elements for guts?
<troy_s> sorry?
<nothlit> design by nature involves planning
<troy_s> the earth / air / fire?
<troy_s> cliche?
<nothlit> 12:20:22 < troy_s> Although i hear there is this really revolutionary motif coming around !!!  Earth / Air / Water / Fire etc.
<nothlit> yeah
<troy_s> oh yes... i am very serious
<troy_s> it is called 'hey i don't know what this motif thing is, but i have this wonderful idea'
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> earthy is one thing
<troy_s> four elements is a bad video game
<nothlit> or the show avatar :)
<nothlit> but elements and balancing in itself is more an abstract/arty thing--does he not realise theres absolutely no content in that motif?
<troy_s> uh... i'll just leave that whole thing alone
<troy_s> as i said, it is one part education...
<troy_s> *sigh*
<nothlit> troy_s: so you prefer technology/man made objects to define progress?
<troy_s> me?  no...
<troy_s> nothlit: I am still all 100% for Ubuntu vocalizing organics.
<troy_s> nothlit: But I do think that that direction could work as well...
<troy_s> nothlit: And in fact, I would probably like to see some output.
<troy_s> nothlit: Seriously though, judging from the resounding amount of brilliance exhibited thus far,
<troy_s> nothlit: Perhaps we just work on cranking something out...
<troy_s> nothlit: Start in greyscale / sketch
<troy_s> and work outwards?
<troy_s> based on the loose goals?
<nothlit> yeah thats what i'm planning on doing
<troy_s> i fear that all we can probably accomplish is transparency in operation
<troy_s> nothlit: Having a workflow would help
<troy_s> nothlit: As in, if the starting point is the same, at least they can be evaluated on similar terms
<troy_s> nothlit: It is impossible to say, cast a vote on a semi-finished piece versus something offered as a proof of principle on the back of a napkin
<nothlit> a series of loose (colour) sketches--and people can express approval/disagreement from there
<troy_s> (well possible, but highly unlikely with respect to the mindsets.)
<nothlit> easier for the general public to visualise
<troy_s> yeah i have no idea really
<troy_s> it is so well beyond any workflow -- well it isn't a workflow really
<troy_s> its rather just 'hey let's pretend and you judge.)
<nothlit> i'd prefer to work palettes out on actual work than picking anyways
<troy_s> shit... i must bed.
<troy_s> email me your thoughts
<nothlit> kk cyas
<dilomo> yo
<troy_s> nothlit: Ping?
<nothlit> troy_s: heyas
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-15
<darkmatter> troy_s, ping
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=495975707&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o
<darkmatter> getting closer.. I'll tackle the few remaining widgets (and kill the placeholder progessbars) once my sons sleeping (and therefore behaving ;O)
<troy_s> darkmatter: Loving it.
<troy_s> please please please get the alpha otu the door
<darkmatter> thanks :)
<troy_s> then i can give you a list of stuff that might help to enumerate the bits you need to od
<darkmatter> yup... the alpha/beta/whatever should be ready by morning
<troy_s> darkmatter: I am finding your evolving away from the tango 'inside' line stroke very very good.
<troy_s> i am just not sold on tango's style... i think it is rather ... naff.
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> it works to an extent... but its a wee bit much on anything over 24 pixels ;)
<troy_s> darkmatter: yeah, it dies after 22 pixels.  or at least should die.
<darkmatter> I find tango really nasty at 32
<darkmatter> it ends up looking like some kid went haywire with felt markers
<troy_s> woop
<troy_s> amen
<troy_s> 22 above is just... nasty
<darkmatter> troy_s, though I do find the highres version of tango that jimmac is doing to be rather appealing
<darkmatter> its tango without the tango
<troy_s> darkmatter: Yeah no lines
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> it is very solid on a few levels in my opinon but novell turf
<troy_s> ;)
<darkmatter> that stroke they use should be for small sizes only
<troy_s> i am actually heading towards a very minimalistic approach for icons of late.
<troy_s> no massive detail, just some subtle grads
<troy_s> and some clean lines
<darkmatter> nice
<darkmatter> thats kinda what I was going for in regards to glory... I keep seeing very minimal, almost monochromatic icons in the toolbars and panels
<darkmatter> including the tray
<troy_s> darkmatter: yep.  that's where i have taken the u2 few.
<troy_s> i intend to hit about 10, just cover the desktop 'presence' and leave it at that...
<darkmatter> cool
<troy_s> i really don't feel that every app needs to be bound by the bloody things
<troy_s> (as per tango's goals)
<troy_s> I really find that the biggest bungle in icons
<troy_s> is the bloody default folder icon
<troy_s> its just plain nasty in the new K4 series, awful in tango, etc.
<darkmatter> I dont even feel every app need to be bound by the same theme
<troy_s> in fact, that's probably one of human's more strong presences ... the default folder.
<darkmatter> thats another thing I'm working on for glory as a suite
<darkmatter> I had started a theme for studi apps a while back.. never did finish
<darkmatter> *studio
<troy_s> you might want to collaborate with wedderburn
<troy_s> he reworked a few icons for UbuntuStudio
<darkmatter> the desktop shouldnt be yber dark... or uber light... both are hard on the eyes... the desktop should be more nuetral.. but gfx apps etc need to be dark because it nearlly impossible to work with otherwise
<darkmatter> cool
<darkmatter> I'll have to drop him a line\
<darkmatter> *neutral
<darkmatter> dang... cant typr today
* darkmatter gives up
<troy_s> darkmatter: hard on eyes is relavit
<troy_s> but from a practical standpoint
<troy_s> middle grey (18% grey to human eye) is probably logical
<troy_s> as it doesn't lure the eye in any given direction
<darkmatter> true
<troy_s> (as human eyes auto colour correct -- meaning that if you have a colour the eye will pull it to white)
<troy_s> that said, v2 ubuntustudio has a pretty clear audience
<troy_s> so we are probably going to break some of those rules
<troy_s> in the name of communication and lure.
<darkmatter> yup
<darkmatter> I switched to ubuntustudio to
<darkmatter> *+o
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> i have extremely high hopes for fluxbuntu assuming i can get a few things done that need doing (the usplash is simply coming along awsome)
<darkmatter> I couldnt stand the baby-poo orange any longer
<troy_s> fecking shite progress bar is _gone_
<darkmatter> woot
<darkmatter> progressbar sucks.. they should have done a spinner or something from the getgo
<troy_s> ;)
<troy_s> lazy fuckers
<darkmatter> haha
<troy_s> it is
<troy_s> i had the thing mocked up in a couple of hours and it is getting coded
<darkmatter> nice
<troy_s> it simply crushes all of the usplashes
<troy_s> you might be surprised by it.
<troy_s> anyways, family time upon me
<troy_s> out
<darkmatter> l8r
<troy_s> coz_: cozzy
<coz_> troy_s, hey guy :)
<coz_> troy_s, god only my neices and nephews and mom still call me cozzy
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> well add one to that now
<coz_> troy_s, damn  I thought i would have grown out of that :)
<coz_> troy_s, best times here around ...my time.... 4pm to 6 pm right?
<troy_s> coz_: Hard to say...
<coz_> ok
<troy_s> depends on the crowd
<troy_s> coz_: We have aussies and nas
<troy_s> and the two don't really mix well timezone wise ;)
<coz_> troy_s, ah right
<coz_> troy_s, perhaps starting local ubuntu art group might be helpful.....maybe not
<troy_s> coz_: I think that if everyone contributes, there is no reason to limit it to timezones really.
<coz_> troy_s, I agree it was a thought that passed through a very tired mind :)
<troy_s> coz_: Hell... those with careers (such as myself) can't rely on 'meeting in irc'.  Its simply foolish and a tad exclusiory
<coz_> troy_s, understood
<troy_s> hell... how often do i see you in irc ;)
<troy_s> did you get that tiger scanned into a better resolution?
<coz_> troy_s  oh  damn I will look for it and post it next time I see you...that one was done almost entirely in painter however
<troy_s> fine by me...
<troy_s> i'd like to see what you can do with inkscape though
<troy_s> you might be able to really elevate that app by providing some amazing work.
<coz_> troy_s, well as I said, I am still learning the vocabulary of its capabilities but I am beginning to really enjoy working with it
<troy_s> coz_: It _truly_ is an awsome tool.
<troy_s> coz_: Do you know how to compile it from SVN?
<troy_s> coz_: As it tends to get a new feature / fix every week.
<coz_> troy_s, yes i do know how to compile it,,,did it once alredy  but just reinstalled feisty so I havent bothered yet
<troy_s> coz_: The fill tool is worth it
<troy_s> coz_: it boils a bunch of boolean maths into one click
<coz_> troy_s, cool ... yeah I am beginning to love it...still need to refine my skills with it but i already am getting ideas t o try  with it
<troy_s> coz_: That's what it takes... and especially if you think outside the box of vector work.
<troy_s> coz_: I think you could probably do some pretty serious damage with it.
<coz_> troy_s, i would love to try...
<troy_s> coz_: try it with a tablet too
<troy_s> wow
<coz_> troy_s, I have a wacom  if thats what youmean
<coz_> troy_s, ok here you go   http://www.speedyshare.com/821288480.html
<coz_> troy_s, if you zoom in on that you can see the brush strokes much clearer
<troy_s> very very nice coz
<troy_s> i would love to see you try something like that with inkscape
<troy_s> i will say though, when you get into complex images, make sure you layer well and turn them off so you can keep working
<troy_s> as it will get damn sluggy on you as the complexity gets up there.
<coz_> troy_s, I already noticed that  as i said learning the ways of an application or the vocabulary of its capabilities is what humbles me a bit
<coz_> troy_s, well guy for you its about ...what?....near  7AM there?  and here it is  nearly 1am
<coz_> so I am going to get to sleep before I lose too much of the next day by sleeping in and really can't afford that so have a good day... talk another time :)
<nothlit> *cough* traditional painting ftw
<troy_s> nothlit: you bugga
<troy_s> nothlit: lol
<nothlit> troy_s: btw you can do charcoal/soft pastel etc with fixative if you don't like elevation/backing :P
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<wedderburn> bored tonight
<wedderburn> wrong convo :P
<nothlit> troy_s: ping?
<lapo> hi there
<nothlit> hihi
* dilomo slaps joejaxx around a bit with a large trout
<joejaxx> ?
<dilomo> sorry
<dilomo> my mistake
<nothlit> dilomo: yeah i saw your bg
<dilomo> oh it's really simple
<dilomo> I made it on the fly
<dilomo> I can try harder to achieve smth
<nothlit> i think we need to define our direction first
<dilomo> influence with it
<nothlit> it'd be great if you could contribute to the wiki article
<dilomo> yes that's rigth
<nothlit> you can add your tribesmen to it, etc
<dilomo> well I'm new to Ununtu world
<dilomo> can you be more specific
<dilomo> about the wiki
<nothlit> its in the mailing list stuff
<nothlit> gimme a sec
<dilomo> k
<nothlit> from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-May/003915.html to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-May/003917.html
<dilomo> 10x
<nothlit> so basically it'd be great if i could get some more people to flesh out the collaboration+progress concepts, and for there to be a consensus on a direction
<nothlit> i've got a sketch or two layed out but i'm not so happy with it
<nothlit> the first step will either be a pallete or a concept sketch, and everything will spread out from there
<dilomo> and we are plannig the new design for ... (?relese X.Y)
<nothlit> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/CommunityTheme
<nothlit> dilomo: you can look through the mailing list threads here https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/ , from april to may, you can follow the threads, the first one that starts it all is Working Title? by troy james sobotka
<dilomo> ok
<dilomo> I'll try to catch up
<nothlit> after that it skips to Community Theme by me
<nothlit> theres only a few emails, don't worry :)
<dilomo> ok :)
<dilomo> I have to leave
<dilomo> see you soon ;)
<nothlit> lol thanks for popping in :D
<troy_s> nothlit: Pong?
<nothlit> troy_s: i sent you an email
<troy_s> yep got it.
<nothlit> obviously clouds have to go if we stick with a rocket of some sort
<nothlit> i dunno how well collaboration fits into that
<nothlit> unless maybe they're all lifting/raising/pulling something
<nothlit> troy_s: whats the diff between gdm.svg and gdm-widescreen.svg?
<nothlit> we can bathe metal objects in warm light--blue doesn't have to be a factor prolly
<troy_s> nothlit: the difference is that thanks to gdm not having aspect innate abilities
<troy_s> nothlit: i have to rework the 4/3 variety
<troy_s> nothlit: so that push came hand in hand with some of the minor details i changed in the base
<troy_s> nothlit: It also means that compositionally it will be twisted slightly to better meet the ratio of the 4/3 screen.
<nothlit> troy_s: yeah but why isn't gdm.svg identical to gdm-widescreen.svg--not talking about -standard
<troy_s> nothlit: In terms of stylings?  it is.
<troy_s> oh...
<troy_s> hrm... gdm.svg as a base?
<troy_s> what are you seeing?
<troy_s> (dont rely on the svg renders in a renderer either -- as they aren't even close to inkscapes output unfortunately)
<nothlit> diff gdm-widescreen.svg gdm.svg
<nothlit> 20c20
<nothlit> <    sodipodi:docname="gdm-widescreen.svg"
<nothlit> ---
<nothlit> >    sodipodi:docname="gdm.svg"
<nothlit> 37,38c37,38
<nothlit> etc
<troy_s> oh... i just did a copy for the naming convention
<troy_s> initial push
<troy_s> i honestly don't know what diffs i pushed on that last one -- mostly an organizational push...
<troy_s> i lost a hard disk at one point, so i tend to push when i can to protect data
<nothlit> troy_s: so no comments?
<troy_s> nothlit: Sorry regarding what in particular?
<nothlit> email attachments lol
<troy_s> oh yes... i was thinking that perhaps sketching motifs could possibly be a better entry point.
<troy_s> to see how they can fit on their own ... then try applying some palettes to them.
<troy_s> at least see if you can get a motif that lives on its own two legs...
<troy_s> there was a campaign that i might not have the link for
<troy_s> it had a very heavily registered singular motif (as opposed to a motif rooted in say, overall styling compared to a singular icon)
<nothlit> ah
<troy_s> nothlit: Have you gotten any emails or has everyone been stomped into submission?
<troy_s> (and by submission i mean broken not 'submitting' lol)
<nothlit> nada
<nothlit> i talked to dilomo in here today, explained where we're going, what i want to see atm
<troy_s> not familiar with dilomo
<nothlit> i think hes the person that made those tribesmen wallpapers
<troy_s> ahhh.
<troy_s> yes that would make sense
<troy_s> kwwii: Didn't see you there...
<troy_s> kwwii: How did UDS go for you?
<kwwii> troy_s: lot's of new work
<troy_s> hrm?
<kwwii> well, the first new thing is the UME (mobile edition)
<kwwii> working on that with some intel guys atm
<troy_s> weird... who is the vendor?
<troy_s> (i ask becuase i can't see anything _not_ being vendor specific)
<kwwii> it is not vendor specific at all as we do not know who the actual vendors are yet
<kwwii> intel is making a spec and prototypes
<troy_s> ah.
<kwwii> we are building the software stack
<darkmatter> good afternoon kiddies.
<darkmatter> recess is over. back to work :P
<dilomo> i send you everybody
<dilomo> an  example palette
<dilomo> emjoy!
<troy_s> what is your palette based on?
<dilomo> tis is just a test
<troy_s> guesses or some sort of real world theory?
<dilomo> based on my taste
<dilomo> ;)
<dilomo> just guesses
<troy_s> dilomo: Do you know how proper design references do it?
<troy_s> dilomo:  They tend to not use swatches (the better one) as they aren't a very good simulation of implementation.
<troy_s> dilomo: Take a very simple set of text / square base / etc... and see if you can mix and match the colours to get a better feel for base etc.
<troy_s> meatballhat: where is your link?!
<dilomo> ok
<dilomo> 10x
<troy_s> dilomo: let me show you an example
<troy_s> meatballhat did a wonderful job of utilizing this approach after I showed him some of Leslie Carbaga's work.
<nothlit> as troy likes to say, palettes aren't just a smattering of colors across the spectrum, they're a limited selection (but not monochromatic) used to achieve a specific mood, and message
<troy_s> http://meatballhat.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/palette_var07.png
<dilomo> yeah I read that
<troy_s> take a base such as that, and build an svg similar to it.
<troy_s> then mix and match your colours
<troy_s> and see what works more towards what you are trying to achieve in terms of a communication
<troy_s> as 'bold' is very different from 'fragile'
<troy_s> culturally of course, you are bound
<troy_s> but you can probably get very far trying them out in that fashion.
<nothlit> in terms of images created, they should all represent our two chosen words as well --and the brown/orange hues, earthy feel of ubuntu is preferred (but doesn't mean you just stick to those two--and there is a LOT of range just inside that)
<dilomo> in my pallete i tried to include
<dilomo> colors like
<dilomo> human skin
<dilomo> and desert sand
<dilomo> and because in the mailing list
<dilomo> there was mentioned that brawn is not very sutable
<dilomo> i tried ti mix with some cold colors
<nothlit> brown is perfectly fine--you can do a lot with brown
<nothlit> any choices are fine as long as you can support it with why they represent our keywords
<dilomo> ook
<troy_s> dilomo: Ignore the brown is not suitable.
<nothlit> people tend to speak in far too large generalisations in terms of colours
<dilomo> i'll try to make such a palette
<troy_s> dilomo: That is being offered from a very ignorant and uneducated perspective.
<troy_s> dilomo: You like chocolate?  Enough said.
<dilomo> well then I have a question
<nothlit> rich wood tones, clay, trees, earth, coffee beans, theres tons of wonderful browns
<dilomo> what is our palette intended to display?
<nothlit> dilomo: the message of progress and collaboration in any manifestation appropriate
<dilomo> text, images, GUI or what ...
<nothlit> a palette is a base to put everything together
<troy_s> dilomo: Use your creativity
<troy_s> dilomo: That's the strength of our community -- collaborate -- take a starting point / ending point that someone drops and build outwards.
<dilomo> I understand
<dilomo> Let me think over it for a while
<dilomo> and I will make palette #2
<troy_s> just try out your colours on a spread like that jpg
<troy_s> the main thing about a palette is that it strictly allows others to collaborate
<troy_s> otherwise they start pulling colours out of their ass and the rest is obvious.
<dilomo> :))
<dilomo> ok see ya every body
<dilomo> I have to sleep after all :)
<dilomo> everybody* ;)
<darkmatter> troy_s, http://mrigns.ath.cx/index.php/2007/05/13/a-short-video-of-kde4s-current-state/ <--- watch that... though I may not *love* the progressbars.. I do like the general approach used
<troy_s> darkmatter: Rather completely and utterly useless to anyone outside of of the definition of 'uber geek'
<troy_s> darkmatter: (the first part of process etc)
<darkmatter> aye.. but I like the general approach (the way the progressbar is blended.. not the design itself)
<troy_s> darkmatter: Transition elements are rather much needed across the board though -- integrated with the arch in an uniform manner.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Looking for htat portion
<darkmatter> its towards the end
<troy_s> darkmatter: I don't know... I fear that whole approach will appeal to a demographic that is out of what i consider a priority audience.
<darkmatter> troy_s, elitist uber-geeks? ;)
<troy_s> darkmatter: Uh yes.
<darkmatter> lol
<troy_s> darkmatter: Not helping on a bigger scale.  That said, if you look at the screenshot you can pretty much see how 'busy' the elements feel.
<darkmatter> dont worry.. I'm not doing it like that.. I just like it
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: And I am not terribly fearful of interfaces, but arguably you get that sort of 'hello' or 'goaway' communication
<troy_s> darkmatter: I simply prefer 'hello'
<darkmatter> yup.. I have a nice hello for the scrollbars.. just havent made the images yet
<troy_s> darkmatter: I really want to see something in terms of say...
<troy_s> darkmatter: Classical notions of 'pretty / attractive' in the pills of glory.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Pills of Glory -- I think I saw that movie in 72'.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Lol.
<darkmatter> lol
<troy_s> darkmatter: Something that is simple with a pull towards light / feminine?
<troy_s> the rest is grounded enough to avoid the homophobes
<darkmatter> yeah.. kinda
<troy_s> darkmatter: Something your wife might go 'wow' to.
<darkmatter> hopefully
<troy_s> darkmatter: (flip for relevant female)
<troy_s> darkmatter: Our world needs more bloody females in it.
<troy_s> darkmatter: They ship shape design from the gutter rapidly.
<darkmatter> colorize to flower motif for light in the loafer types :P
<troy_s> darkmatter: (Yet another reason that Diana has an edge in pulling mainstream)
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: Well... i was thinking more in the actual drawing portion
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> I know
<troy_s> darkmatter: Something ... erm... woudl require some thinking a little more... but thin / pastel tone
<troy_s> darkmatter: slim
<troy_s> darkmatter: loose hip shot words, but i think you 'get it'
<darkmatter> aye
<nothlit> troy_s: i just bombed you with text in pm
<troy_s> nothlit: All good here.
<troy_s> darkmatter: And I do think that in the grand scheme of what glory is evolving towards, those outlines are legacy tangoific
<troy_s> darkmatter: 2cents from a useless vantage, but 2cents none-the-less
<darkmatter> lol
<lapo> re
<darkmatter> er
<darkmatter> speaking of.. I hate er... useless television
<troy_s> lapo: Greets lappy
<darkmatter> troy_s, biggest thing atm is clean without sterility... lots of fixes still to come.. just want the general feel laid out
<darkmatter> I hate overly busy themes
<darkmatter> like clearlooks
<troy_s> absolutely
<darkmatter> its far to busy.. mostly due to the heavy outlines
<troy_s> darkmatter: Again with you on it... just thinking that the outline is very 'heavy'
<troy_s> woop... lol
<troy_s> darkmatter: I find outlines a very heavy approach in general... rather like why grade 2 colouring books have them
<troy_s> darkmatter: Colouring books aimed at say, 30 years olds use fine thin lines
<troy_s> or simple tones
<troy_s> (sad analogy, but i think there might be some shred of an example in there lol)
<darkmatter> yup
<darkmatter> I've shown the WIP screenies around... so far response is better than expected
<troy_s> darkmatter: I think it will be even better when the whole is addressed
<darkmatter> as.. rather than creating a generic them like clearlooks, etc. I'm wanting a real them aimed at a generic (or more appropriately general) audience
<troy_s> darkmatter: As it is but one member of an orchestra
<darkmatter> yup
<lapo> hi darkmatter and troy_s
<darkmatter> hi lapo
<troy_s> anyways, i need pork ingredients.
<troy_s> off.
<troy_s> lol
<nothlit> lines are for people who don't understand basic values and contrast ;p
<troy_s> nothlit: amen
<troy_s> not to mention that one of my all time pieces of bloody photography is of a bull
<troy_s> against a dark sepia base
<troy_s> there is probably 1/10th of a stop of diffference between the two
<troy_s> lol
<darkmatter> hehe
<darkmatter> but yeah... the real improvement will come when I move from pixmap to cairo
<darkmatter> much more control
<nothlit> is cairo there yet?
<darkmatter> nothlit, nope. atm its just the evil pixmap engine... but is the best design tool there is for themes atm... saves the hastle of constantly recompiling
<darkmatter> but it has several nasty little issues
<darkmatter> hmmm... some of the outlines are a bit dark *shrug*.. I'll fix that later
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-16
<darkmatter> anyone whose alive, need opinions on the sliders  http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=500503287&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o
<darkmatter> ignore the steppers and the scrolltroughs. they're not implemented yet
<darkmatter> still using the old images
<troy_s> darkmatter: Probably just flip to round at that size... on a scaling thinking.
<darkmatter> yeah...
<darkmatter> they looked better before they got scaled
<darkmatter> bloody gtk
<darkmatter> I'll tweak the grad later.. must finish widgets first
<troy_s> just get the basic shapes in
<troy_s> the only things that really will obviously standout in terms of aesthetic are the pill controls -- the scrollbars and the progressbars
<troy_s> the rest is relatively innocuous
<darkmatter> yup.. I'm just wondering... keep the thumbs or go for divets (possibly just three) like the handles in the panel n statusbar (or the range sliders)
<darkmatter> well, only one way to find out
<darkmatter> troy_s, http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=500525067&size=o <--- to sterile, eh?
<troy_s> darkmatter: Re?
<darkmatter> oh.. sorry... the sliders with those thumbs (in twf.. compare to firefox in the bg)
<troy_s> wholly christ
<troy_s> what am i looking at?
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> darkmatter: Oh stepper?
<troy_s> darkmatter: We looking at the scrollbar?
<darkmatter> yeah.. the slider thumbs (the little grippers).. do the dots look to sterile compared tho the groves?
<darkmatter> *grooves
<darkmatter> overall impresion of the effect it has on the sliders
<darkmatter> *impression
<troy_s> darkmatter: Ok... that is officially well off the deep end of ocd.
<darkmatter> haha
<troy_s> darkmatter: Uh... get rid of them all together and make the grabber fancy.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Hows that to pull you off of the bloody ocd path?
<darkmatter> oks
<darkmatter> :P
<darkmatter> nuoveau grippers!!!
<darkmatter> ocd heaven!!! so many designs to choose from!! xD
<troy_s> somethin
<troy_s> anything
<troy_s> ANYTHING other than that bloody 'hey let's do utter drab' clearlooks mentality
<darkmatter> ;)
<darkmatter> good morning klepas
<klepas> moin darkmatter :)
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=500525067&size=o <-- umm... wee? ;P
<klepas> hot
<klepas> new MorningGlory or something else?
<klepas> and you're using the same wallpaper as i am ^_^
<klepas> http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/55367713/
<darkmatter> klepas, yup.. new morning glory.. now just called glory
<klepas> where can i get ^^
<darkmatter> yeah... saw that earlier
<klepas> want to give it for a desktop test-drive
<darkmatter> klepas... hopefully be tarballed by morning
<darkmatter> just running some experiments
<klepas> awesome
<klepas> *nod*
<darkmatter> welp.... time for another test
<klepas> *nod*
<klepas> good luck :)
<klepas> and keep up the awesome work as always :)
<darkmatter> klepas, http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=500556710&size=o <---- ummm....
<darkmatter> yay or nay
<klepas> yay+1
<klepas> what font and font size is that?
<darkmatter> k.. its just a rough in... but guess it works
<darkmatter> font Segoi UI
<darkmatter> size is 10pt at 75dpi
<klepas> in the repos?
<darkmatter> nope.. its a vista thingy
<darkmatter> dcc it to ya if ya want
<klepas> darkmatter: can you email it to me?
<klepas> klepas@klepas.org
<darkmatter> sure
<darkmatter> klepas, sent
<klepas> ta!
<nothlit> darkmatter: the arrow buttons for the slider don't seem to fit--especially since the path the slider travels along goes farther than the slider travels
<darkmatter> yeah... I know... havent done the arrows yet (still the old versions), and the trough was just quick n dirty (just to est the look)
<darkmatter> redoing it atm
<artnay> http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/May-15-1.html
<MindOfChaos> So
<lapo> hi
<dilomo> hi everybody
<dilomo> i think we have to make some test condition for various palettes
<dilomo> such as text privew or smth
<dilomo> to test the colors on various objects
<dilomo> what do you think?
<klepas> darkmatter: hey
<darkmatter> hey klepas, you rang?
<klepas> yea
<klepas> wanted to say thanks for the neat font
<klepas> (:
<nothlit> dilomo: heyas
<dilomo> hi
<dilomo> ;)
<dilomo> what's new
<nothlit> new email
<dilomo> okay
<dilomo> I was wondering how collaboration may be expressed with colors
<troy_s> well you can go two ways on that...
<troy_s> you can either combine your palette with some form of motif
<dilomo> what kind of motif
<dilomo> ?
<troy_s> or you can rely on the learning / education of your audience to form connective associations to colour patterns -- unfortunately the latter generally relies on linking to well branded company presentations or something akin to that.
<nothlit> thats the stage we're in deciding ;p
<troy_s> dilomo: well that's the question...
<troy_s> i actually think the techy blueprint idea could fly quite well if executed properly.
<nothlit> if you read the wiki page, i've suggested one way
<troy_s> and it would be a nice twist away from the conventional 'oatmeal' ;)
<nothlit> but hopefully we can come up with more than that :D
<dilomo> Today I used Ubuntu for nearly an hour
<troy_s> dilomo: Um... not exactly a feat lol
<dilomo> and I was not very pleased
<dilomo> with the bright oranges
<troy_s> dilomo: Well that's just a subjective statement really... not much value in it either.
<dilomo> they just don't fit
<dilomo> because a bright color is intended to atract attention
<nothlit> fit what?
<troy_s> dilomo: There are many other things that could easily be cited rather than colour alone.
<troy_s> dilomo: Actually, artskool 101:  You define your lights by your darks.
<troy_s> dilomo: It isn't bright, it is simply bright relative to its peers.
<dilomo> maybe you are right
<nothlit> thats far too general--brights can be hilights, to expand dynamic range, etc, they don't just provide one function
<dilomo> yes I did't said that i don't like the colors
<dilomo> but personaly to me they are a bit bright
<troy_s> skething a motif or two might go a long way to mixing and matching some colours against it.
<nothlit> troy_s: well in the age of light emitting displays, something incredibly bright can happen without difference in the surrounding area ;p
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> except your pupil would close down on it a smidge... lol... being full of feces but on a serious note
<troy_s> the human eye physiology factors into a lot of that mumbo jumbo that people FIRMLY believe
<troy_s> albeit erroneously
<troy_s> 1) Colour correction of the human eye / brain
<troy_s> etc.
<dilomo> so lets focus on the MOTIF
<dilomo> ;)
<nothlit> actually
<nothlit> lets focus on the concept
<nothlit> what do these words mean?
<nothlit> if we don't do that, we can't figure out what they represent :)
<troy_s> nothlit: That gets pretty tricky -- and again why you must clearly state your audience in any design decision... it's different across the globe.
<troy_s> nothlit: For example, I hear elegant pop up _a lot_
<dilomo> collaboration means people joined together
<dilomo> working together and
<troy_s> nothlit: And having looked into it, done a bit of research etc., you will find that almost always it will harkon back to a movement or some sort of 'defacto' presentation.
<dilomo> achieving smth
<troy_s> intertwined ascention, but that is a little fedora (Diana once again lol)
<troy_s> as an artskool 101 attempt you would probably try to show some element of 'many' working towards 'one'
<troy_s> which is pretty wide open in terms of execution
<dilomo> so ... we collaborate where?
<dilomo> what is the atmosphere of that place
<dilomo> ?
<nothlit> everywhere in the OSS world :)
<troy_s> ugh
<troy_s> motif
<troy_s> puzzle pieces was one that someone threw out at one point...
<dilomo> once defined the place and human moods we can define color
<troy_s> the chains/intertwined thing is just too damn close to fedora's work
<dilomo> and so what
<nothlit> dilomo: we need to define progress more, and both in <concert>
<dilomo> troy_s: we need to accomplish smth connected with the tow words
<dilomo> we do not have to care about fedora
<dilomo> two words*
<nothlit> we have to make sure we don't mimic them, which is more difficult than i realised
<nothlit> dilomo: put what you have so far onto the wiki article https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/CommunityTheme/Collaboration+Progress
<troy_s> we don't need to care about fedora, but the point is to create something _new_
<troy_s> and the last thing that is wanted is to bother trying to do something if the net result is a shitty gradient or a duplicate of something else.
<troy_s> so yes, an awareness of your design 'realm' doesn't hurt.
<troy_s> dilomo: I would just suggest that the 'intertwined strands' be avoided -- as there are many other options out there i would guess.
<dilomo> ok but isn't the new thing well forgotten old one?
* nothlit assumes a NA audience, with a general public, computers are tools--
<nothlit> i doubt we would know how to design for something otherwise
<nothlit> dilomo: sure, but we shouldn't just echo whats been done lately--it should seem new
<dilomo> sure it should
<dilomo> nothlit: waht do you want me to put on the wiki?
<nothlit> dilomo: what you just said about collaboration :)
<dilomo> :D ok
<troy_s> North American audience is probably easy to pull some motifs that are hot right now
<troy_s> try google type in the motifs and click images
<troy_s> you often won't find design trends, but if you are at all interested in art and design, you can probably spot them relatively easily
<troy_s> logolounge has some great compendiums on design trends and currents (2006 and now the more recent 2007 that lapo pointed out to me the other day)
<nothlit> what demographic is the majority of ubuntu users anyways
<troy_s> nothlit: Well taht probably comes down to a question that I am looking into...
<troy_s> nothlit: I think the more appropriate question is -- to whom do you wish to direct this to.
<nothlit> holy--ubuntu is ahead of windows and osx in google trends
<troy_s> nothlit: If you want to appeal to the fecking folks who are already here, then you are probably doomed as aesthetics are all over the map (just look at the bloody screenshot galleries out there)
<troy_s> nothlit: Again, it comes down to who you are speaking with.  There just aint no such thing as 'universal' design.  Its hokey bullshit peddled in backroom rubbish bins.
<dilomo> I think that when installing Ubuntu the theme should be automatically determined by the locale
<dilomo> because different people - different tastes
<troy_s> dilomo: Is that 'hot africa' yours, if so, perhaps scale it down so it doesn't flog the page
<troy_s> dilomo: I think a locales based approach is damn wise, but i chatted with mdz about it for icons and well...
<troy_s> dilomo: It wont happen.  or come close to happening.
<dilomo> I will replace it soon
<dilomo> with smth new
<troy_s> dilomo: Just make it more thumbnaily
<nothlit> dilomo: that takes a lot of manpower, and locale based research
<dilomo> contrained to the palette
<dilomo> constrained*
<troy_s> nothlit: I think the idea is simple really though -- just provide certain overrides for glaringly obvious elemetns that have better communication in a cultural notation...
<nothlit> we're not marketing--just a very small community based art effort
<nothlit> troy_s: oh--i was thinking something far more comprehensive lol
<troy_s> nothlit: No... just simple and small.
<nothlit> it definitely won't happen any time soon
<troy_s> nothlit: rather along the lines as to how the evolution of the translations evolves.
<troy_s> nothlit: It simply won't happen.
<nothlit> we're shooting for universe (we don't even have packagers yet)--and won't fit on a disc/requires ubiquity/alternatives integration
<troy_s> nothlit:  It is very much symptomatic.  A few small areas where Ubuntu could set pace, it simply won't.
<troy_s> i have two packagers
<troy_s> or at least access to two who could help
<troy_s> that's not an issue
<nothlit> dilomo: anyways--what does progress mean to you--and what things could possibly represent the two words in concert?
<troy_s> getting _output_ is.
<troy_s> nothlit: Sketch - book.
<troy_s> nothlit: Trust someone labeled as 'artist' as far as they can sketch.
<nothlit> troy_s: more: ideas!
<troy_s> hrm.
<troy_s> roots?
<dilomo> i can sketch
<troy_s> vines
<dilomo> i'm preparing to be an architect
<troy_s> there were actually a few photos that were pretty solid...
<troy_s> nothlit: you have seen those images with the painted hands?
<nothlit> troy_s: which images are you talking about?
<dilomo> about progress: What kind of progress?
<dilomo> the tech progress
<troy_s> grr you would say that
<dilomo> or the soul progress
<nothlit> dilomo: thats up to us to intrepret
<nothlit> we can go with any interpretation of progress, be it spiritual, technological, idealogical...etc
<dilomo> i think we all can see the tech progress
<troy_s> nothlit: I was thinking something like this:  http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/GreenFire?content=58367
<dilomo> just infont of us
<troy_s> sorry couldn't resist
<dilomo> so  to me we have to
<dilomo> concentrate on the spiritual part
<dilomo> and what spirit is?
<dilomo> definitly smth bright white and pure
<nothlit> troy_s: i like this roots/vines idea--you going to write this stuff down on the wiki or should i?
<nothlit> especially with climbing vines we can do something with them supporting each other and an exaggerated perspective
<nothlit> dilomo: hmm that is a <very> culturally grounded association
<troy_s> feck i can't find it...
<troy_s> goddamit
<troy_s> its top shelf really
<nothlit> and we're talking about actual progress itself, not a representation of spirit--make sure you keep site of that
<troy_s> far superior than anything that ub has had
<nothlit> sight*
<troy_s> or will have for tha tmatter
<dilomo> and what you think vines are progress?
<dilomo> ;)
<troy_s> ew... henna could be intresting
<troy_s> nevermind, that's an aside
<nothlit> like some people think spirits would be coloured according to the soul of the person, or its more aura like, rainbow coloured, or otherwise shimmering-- theres associations of warming, and then theres ethereal, etc
<nothlit> dilomo: vines climb upwards--and they keep with the organic aspect of ubuntu
<nothlit> and they're many--climbing up and across each other, etc
<nothlit> the upwards aspect is a very common motif of progress
<dilomo> I undertand your point of view
<nothlit> dilomo: how would you represent progress of the spirit?
<nothlit> and differentiate it from ascention--and keep the collaboration aspect represented?
<dilomo> progrss towards heaven :)
<dilomo> but my idea was mainli to focus on the whites, blues and grays
<dilomo> mainly*
<dilomo> beacuse we 70% water
<dilomo> and we try to reach heaven
<dilomo> right?
<troy_s> i'll find those hands if it is the last thing i do
<troy_s> grr
<nothlit> i think religion is a charged subject
<dilomo> yes but
<nothlit> and so is death
<troy_s> ugh
<troy_s> focus
<troy_s> if there intends on being _any_ output... lol
<dilomo> all the religins preach smth like this
<troy_s> that's why all religions belong in the dust bin
<troy_s> on a more practical note...
<troy_s> i don't dare draw vines
<dilomo> ok lets just make the initial palette
<dilomo> and start experimenting
<nothlit> troy_s: because?
<troy_s> nothlit: For reasons that should be obvious to someone like _you_
<dilomo> with the vines or anything else
<dilomo> can you both make a plette and post it to the wiki
<nothlit> troy_s: i can guess- but i'd like to know your specific reasons and not assume
<dilomo> so that we - the others to start working?
<troy_s> that's my specific reason... i don't know if i can do different but i suppose i could try.
<troy_s> its just that it is _sooooo_ done for me...
<troy_s> i can't walk along the elegant flora until that portion is complete lol
<troy_s> although if someone came up with a different direction
<dilomo> brb eating
<troy_s> i could probably follow style
<nothlit> palettes should be done with an aim of a message--you should choose colours representative of the subject matter, and when you envision something in those distinct set of colours/values, you should be able to imagine people getting a distinct feeling of whatever we're trying to achieve
<troy_s> goddamit all of this curve or gradient shite makes me want to curl up into a little fetal ball and cry
<troy_s> wow... just makes you realize that all of this 'work' on gnome look
<troy_s> and vertov was right
<troy_s> 'anyone who cares for their art seeks the essence of their own technique'
<troy_s> jeebus... pretty hard to find 1 in 30 with a distinct style
<nothlit> most of the stuff on -look is designed to emulate something or is fanboy service designed to reproduce his/her object of affection everywhere
<nothlit> its not going to be design school lol
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> apparently... but even still...
<troy_s> I CANT FIND THAT BLOODY IMAGE
<troy_s> nothlit: There you go -- ubuntu cthulhu
<troy_s> http://gug.sunsite.dk/pictures/1129712838.png
<nothlit> lol @ the photoshop tut 'vines'
<nothlit> tentacles*
<nothlit> troy_s: ah--i thought you were searching for hands?
<troy_s> i am!
<troy_s> i can't find the buggers
<troy_s> anyways, they are two hands joined on the left side of frame from top to bottom
<troy_s> painted
<troy_s> against an orange backdrop
<troy_s> realtively ... well good.
<troy_s> ubuntu ass apparently is a popular motif
<nothlit> ...a joke motif
<troy_s> lol  Ubuntu Ass
<troy_s> We thought you liked our approach to ass... so now we give you the real deal ... Ubuntu Ass.
<dilomo> back :)
<dilomo> did you made the palette?
<dilomo> i guess no :)
<troy_s> dilomo: I think everyone's busy with various things.
<nothlit> troy_s: https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/sketches/roots.png
<nothlit> troy_s: vines are difficult to illustrate supporting each other-- so i chose unknown ropy plant matter instead --more tree/root like
<troy_s> nothlit: no shit
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> nothlit: The real trick is making roots / vines 'pretty' in a north american sensibility
<dilomo> when you create the palette post it on the mailing lists
<troy_s> nothlit: Some of that highlight work / gradient on the root itself might work if you thumbnail in on it...?
<troy_s> dilomo: Try generating something that uses a palette
<dilomo> and then i will join creatig constrained art
<troy_s> dilomo: It really is an open thing..
<troy_s> dilomo: Who knows what will work what wont...
<troy_s> dilomo: Just keep throwing ideas out there with the motivations behind it.
<nothlit> dilomo: you can create one too-- hopefully we'll get enough to have a vote on it
<dilomo> ok
<troy_s> nothlit: I actually am looking at the study a bit in the center... it might have something there...
<nothlit> the most important thing for our palettes is to have accompanying text telling us why you chose each colour, and what they mean
<troy_s> nothlit: Let me show you what i can see possibly...
<troy_s> (although getting to collaboration is a helluva feat lol)
<troy_s> (progress creep sure...)
<nothlit> troy_s: well i want to show both the roots coming together from a lot of locations, and it all breaking out of the foliage, into the sunlight, with reaching tendrils etc
<troy_s> nothlit: Right in the dark band
<troy_s> nothlit: Where the three or four roots are
<nothlit> yeah
<troy_s> nothlit: There is the potential to really use a gradient sort of approach for a base there.
<troy_s> then evolve something layered overtop maybe
<nothlit> mostly the darks are just thrown in to show form--otherwise it gets confusing
<troy_s> the darks could work very well with a layered appraoch to highlights
<troy_s> building up to highlights.
<nothlit> troy_s: oh--you're thinking inkscape huh? :P
<dilomo> good night (well for me:))
<troy_s> nothlit: Not at all.
<troy_s> dilomo: Night dilomo
<troy_s> nothlit: Collaborating is a toughie -- perhaps the idea of progress as attached to a clambering of vines and life across something
<joejaxx> troy_s: gobby ftw
<troy_s> nothlit: I don't think you can sell plant collaboration
<troy_s> joejaxx: Fecker ftw!
<joejaxx> lool
<troy_s> joejaxx: Remind me to poison you at some point.
<joejaxx> lol
<troy_s> joejaxx: My head hurts with fecking leaves.
<nothlit> joejaxx: we're not ascii artists
<troy_s> joejaxx: I haven't quite done anything as hard in a long while...
<joejaxx> nothlit: boohoo code in svg in gobby
<troy_s> ohhh
<nothlit> troy_s: well if we want to go with life--the best way is cooperating life or some sort of miniature echosystem
<troy_s> there's an art installation
<troy_s> pretty svg rendered as xml
<troy_s> woo
<troy_s> installation artists look out.
<nothlit> LOL
<troy_s> nothlit: Good luck on that one.
<troy_s> nothlit: How the HELL do you pull that off?
<troy_s> ok... i am fecking fluxed out thanks to joejaxx -- need a shower now.
<nothlit> troy_s: easiest way would probably to throw birds making a nest together, ants carrying something together etc
<troy_s> ugh
<nothlit> troy_s: and seed it all over the image
<troy_s> that's are pretty literal motif
<troy_s> and probably pretty hard to render due to the complexity
<troy_s> know what i mean?
<nothlit> yeah
<troy_s> roots of two systems intertwining could possibly work
<troy_s> making it 'pretty' is a whole nother can of wax
<troy_s> but quite possibly doable
<nothlit> lol two systems?
<troy_s> from waht i can see of that gradients in your sketch
<troy_s> well life systems
<troy_s> as in not literal
<troy_s> just a means of telling them apart -- diff leaves or... tones .. or...
<troy_s> the real coup to all of it, is making it pretty
<nothlit> ahh
<troy_s> in a na mentality
<troy_s> immediately the cliches might work -- that macro lens feel
<nothlit> well we can do an underpainting of the cof colours ;p
<nothlit> for each main trunk
<troy_s> roots are pretty bloody heavy, i don't think anyone has tried to pretty them in my recent mind.
<troy_s> but perhaps the intertwining curves can work in the same way of that original intertwisted spirals.
<nothlit> mossify, and add lots of dappered golden light--is the easiest way to make "ugly" bark appealing
<troy_s> hrm... i hate to fall back on godrays
<troy_s> but it is an option
<troy_s> is your dcc working:?
<nothlit> not godrays, forest sunlight
<joejaxx> yes forest sunlight is god
<joejaxx> good*
<troy_s> yah those are traditionally called 'god rays' when you shoot them... cracking through the damn forest
<nothlit> it should, traditional dcc means the sender is the passive connector
<troy_s> god knows how long i have sat out in the fecking bush waiting for the proper crack
<troy_s> i'll try
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> "the proper crack"
<troy_s> joejaxx: Dead serious...
<troy_s> joejaxx: We once spent a bloody 12 hour day waiting on the sun to crest through fecking trees
<joejaxx> troy_s: near a clearing in the forest?
<joejaxx> oh wow
<troy_s> joejaxx: IN the fecking thing
<troy_s> joejaxx: getting eaten by bugglinias
<troy_s> joejaxx: I was homicidal by the end of it.
<troy_s> joejaxx: Makes you want to climb to the top of a watchtower and start shooting people.
<troy_s> godrays sells
<troy_s> for certain
<troy_s> just look at the more awe inspiring vista walls
<troy_s> although i must say, i quite liked diana's underwater godrays
<troy_s> in f6
<troy_s> they look like someone nerfed them but they still resonate
<troy_s> the underwater godrays in the vista aqua work fine too.
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> they looked really nice
<troy_s> in fact, it is quite funny how much people fail to connect the communication
<troy_s> but you _really_ get it when you see it.
<troy_s> its such a trivial bag of tricks
<troy_s> once you know what you are looking for
<troy_s> quite clever design i will say
<troy_s> nothlit: Those i pulled at random rather trying to get that 'beauty' element in an abstract
<troy_s> nothlit: There is something in each of them
<nothlit> troy_s: lol, as evidenced--people like "glowies"
<troy_s> glow is _in_
<troy_s> and at least a step away from fecking shiny crystal shit
<nothlit> troy_s: btw--in the u2 cof logo--have you considered doing the shadow for the red part rather than the highlight?
<troy_s> nothlit: THe branding sucks ass.
<troy_s> nothlit: Just the last part before I gave up
<troy_s> nothlit: If you have ideas, feel free to mix... i wen tthrough trying flora inset grad on the cof, then on the text
<troy_s> all shit
<troy_s> i _really_ want the bloody motif to carry over to the branding, but right now, my abilities lack the execution
<troy_s> hence i picked up flux again
<troy_s> ohhhh glowy
<troy_s> if we had some bloody female designers, i bet they could open our eyes up to some more beautiful approaches for vine/roots
<troy_s> tree
<troy_s> et.c
<nothlit> well how the hell is it supposed to carry easily when you're not allowed to alter the colours directly at all
<troy_s> nothlit: I am altering the colours
<troy_s> nothlit: I could care less about the 'rules' that are there for rules sake
<troy_s> nothlit: The ubuntu brand for u2 is nothing more than a stroke
<troy_s> although the contrast of the logo colours is nice -- so i dont' know.
<troy_s> not really putting any restrictions on it all
<troy_s> just want something that bloody well results in the 'aha'
<troy_s> drop shadow sucks ass.
<troy_s> etc
<troy_s> glow sucks ass
<troy_s> it just isn't right
<nothlit> wth http://spaceslogo.spaces.live.com/
<troy_s> nothlit: I can assure you that if at some point sabdfl shells out the cash for a designer -- he'll gut the entire scene
<nothlit> troy_s: i expect that as well
<nothlit> troy_s: you aren't worried about breaking their trademark policy?
<troy_s> nothlit: but i don't think that sabdfl has the courage nor ability to hire a real designer
<troy_s> nothlit: Fuck the trademark policy
<troy_s> nothlit: It says ubuntu, it uses the logo
<troy_s> nothlit: Enough branding
<nothlit> joejaxx: look at the link i posted
<troy_s> nothlit: In order for sabdfl to hire the proper folk, he would have to actually _engage_ the material.
<troy_s> nothlit: and i think, despite him being an extremely brilliant guy, he is a little leery of it.
<joejaxx> nothlit: space logos?
<joejaxx> nothlit: or the one before
<nothlit> joejaxx: spaces logo
<joejaxx> XML Parsing Error: syntax error
<joejaxx> XML Parsing Error: syntax error
<joejaxx> Location: http://spaceslogo.spaces.live.com/
<joejaxx> Line Number 3, Column 49:
<nothlit> looks fine here--the content is amusing
<nothlit> troy_s: i think its just whether he gets sick of the walmart look and decides to throw some money @ it or not
<nothlit> time will tell
<nothlit> troy_s: btw how goes the diy marketing site? i'm interested to see what new direction you're taking
<troy_s> god don't even start on the packaging
<troy_s> nothlit: I am not doing it... meatballhat is.
<troy_s> nothlit: I don't know what point he has it at.
<troy_s> nothlit: actually, looking at it, in terms of wallpapers
<nothlit> oh really? the openweek representative said you were working on it
<troy_s> nothlit: MS completely killed Apple at their own game
<troy_s> nothlit: They killed them
<troy_s> nothlit: I try to help out on a high level where I can.
<troy_s> nothlit: The implementation though, is all meatballhat
<troy_s> nothlit: It has a few very cute tongue in cheek things going for it... depends on execution and support at this point.
<troy_s> nothlit: If you google for meatballhat you might find his blog and such
<nothlit> was that pallete you posted for the marketing site?
<troy_s> nothlit: I think that is the basic palette meatballhat is going with... although there were about 6 variations of base to supporting players
<troy_s> nothlit: That is one of the strengths of leslie carbaga's appraoch
<troy_s> nothlit: it _really_ shows the colours at work as opposed to a stale swatch appraoch
<scoobydoo28139> good evening
<troy_s> hello scoobydoo28139
<scoobydoo28139> hello, are you a real person here?
<scoobydoo28139> maybe you can tell me where to get new wall paper (ubuntu)
<nothlit> yes only ubotu and ubuntulog are bots in here
<troy_s> scoobydoo28139: What are you looking for?
<nothlit> scoobydoo28139: http://art.ubuntu.com/main.php , or you can go to gnome-look and search for ubuntu under wallpapers, etc
<troy_s> scoobydoo28139: There are plenty of places to get wallpapers... it really depends on what you like.
<scoobydoo28139> ok tks
<scoobydoo28139> was looking for them in synaptic
<scoobydoo28139> but i don't know what to search for or how to install them yet
<scoobydoo28139> 3rd day of ubuntu
<nothlit> !search wallpaper
<ubotu> Found:
<nothlit> yeah--mostly wallpapers are going to be from external sources, images you save and select
<nothlit> the only wallpapers in the repos i would think exists besides those already installed- are blubuntu, and edubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu specific ones,
<kwwii> in case anyone is interested in the mobile stuff: http://sinecera.de/UMD_mocks/m4_1.png
<nothlit> :o there is upper-chest nudity on art.ubuntu.com
<nothlit> kwwii: btw your album is pw protected on there?
<kwwii> nothlit: nope
<kwwii> nothlit: but if there is not a webpage in a dir then the contents are not browsable as such
<nothlit> kwwii: http://art.ubuntu.com/main.php?g2_itemId=86
<nothlit> thats for that intel device?
<kwwii> nothlit: ahh, now I see what you mean...no idea why that is like that
<kwwii> nothlit: that is a mockup for the Ubuntu Mobile Edition if that is what you mean
<nothlit> kwwii: do you use any matchbox components or is it all from scratch?
<kwwii> nothlit: we will end up writing lots from scratch
<nothlit> kwwii: is the lower panel a tasks panel or something else?
<nothlit> and why do you have a start when you already have a task based pen/finger interface?
<kwwii> nothlit: the lower panel is the main app panel...the things on the desktop are minor apps, etc.
<kwwii> I just put the start in for fun, no need for it
<kwwii> afterwards I realized that people will think it should be a menu (me=mac user)
<nothlit> oh-- so is the desktop stuff mainly going to be scaling or scrolling in terms of expansion?
<kwwii> scaling I hope
<kwwii> it all depends on how much GL we can use
<nothlit> so what parts of that mockup will be visible when an application is active?
<kwwii> the bottom bar will become the main toolbar(s) for the app, so you will only see the top bar and that will also show the title of the app and window name, etc.
<nothlit> and are you going to stick with oxygen style icons for these limited resolution displays?
<kwwii> the amazing thing is that although some of the displays are only 4" the resolution is amazing, so yes, we are going to keep that style of icons
<kwwii> not sure if it will be oxygen icons or not, but I think that the hiRes stuff looks nice
<nothlit> pixel density has come leaps and bounds these past two years :)
<kwwii> the machine I saw had a 5" screen and did 800x480
<nothlit> whens mobile going to have alpha/beta, release stuff out?--what devices are targetted
<kwwii> the first release will be gutsy
<kwwii> so I would guess that there will be code available very soon
<kwwii> although none of it will work very well :-)
<kwwii> I think at first it is i386 stuff only, not sure about the rest
<kwwii> adding the word "cross compiler" to a paragraph is a good way to make me ingore it ;-)
<troy_s> kwwii: Is that through intel or sabdfl?
<kwwii> troy_s: what part do you mean?
<troy_s> the mock... as in who is implementing it
<troy_s> and has it cleared?
<kwwii> ahh, now I get you...both are working on it
<kwwii> there are several intel people, a couple of nokia folks, ubuntu peeps and others
<troy_s> who is leading design?
<troy_s> i imagine that would be intel's baby yes?
<kwwii> I am working together with a guy from intel on it
<nothlit> imo the combination of realism and exaggerated contrast in icons is better suited for displays with a plethora of pixels
<nothlit> so this will go on intel laptops and maemo-like devices?
<kwwii> right
<troy_s> kwwii: So did they set out to do the 'hey lets do the iphone' feel?
<kwwii> I think that all the smaller icons will be made simple 2d thingies
<kwwii> troy_s: well, that is one of several designs we are looking into
<troy_s> lol
<nothlit> troy_s: did you see macslows cairo experiment implementing an iphone-lookalike?
<kwwii> troy_s: we've done a basic maemo version, an iPhone-ish version and another based on pygment
<troy_s> nothlit: no.  i think more people need to leave johnathon ive alone.
<kwwii> funny you should mention him ;-)
<troy_s> did they hire him?
<kwwii> johnathan, you mean? not that I know of
<kwwii> I was talking about mirko
<troy_s> ahhh... macslow
<kwwii> right
<troy_s> how come that is funny?  is he working on it with you?
* troy_s is a little slow and struggling.
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> we're working on a few projects together
<troy_s> super
<troy_s> kwwii: Did you chat with sab at UDS much?
<kwwii> troy_s: not too much
<kwwii> I was busy getting new things to do
<kwwii> in addition to the fact that I missed the first few days
<darkmatter> hmmm... I need to redo these damnable scrollbar troughs
<darkmatter> they are sucking something aweful
<darkmatter> awful
<darkmatter> *
<troy_s> kwwii: Do you have a plan for GG yet?
<kwwii> troy_s: still working out ideas of how to go about it
<kwwii> deciding which baby step to take next, really
<nothlit> troy_s: wow these logo lounge guys are quite brilliant--looking at the old articles-- i can immediately feel certain of those trends being dated....
<troy_s> nothlit: Yes, they are on.
<nothlit> troy_s: your darling room favorite is in one of those articles too lol :)
<troy_s> nothlit: Engaging design requires a pretty good knowledge of outside bodies of work -- you can't jump ahead of a trend and lead if you are lost in replication and mimicry.
<troy_s> nothlit: Darlingroom is _awsome_ design.
<troy_s> nothlit: _awsome_
<troy_s> nothlit: It is so tight, I can't explain.
<troy_s> nothlit: It is extremely vocal in its communication and extremely well executed in implementation.
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-17
<nothlit> *groan*, ubuntu-title got uppercase
<troy_s> that bloody font should be BANNED
<troy_s> it is the worst bloody font in existence, and everyone uses it trying to buy some ephemeral consistency
<troy_s> but it is soooooo hacky amateur looking it scares me.
<darkmatter> troy_s, its sad that people actually use that font. the splash, usplash and gdm are the first thinks I give the boot to
<darkmatter> its loathsome and more suited to web2.0 than a ui
<troy_s> darkmatter: The font is uh... fine in U-b-u-n-t-u
<troy_s> but it just hints at the absolute vacuum of aesthetic used in _anything_else.
<troy_s> I find the ubuntu branding logo and text to be quite distinctive.  In the case of the actual logo, it is wonderful.
<darkmatter> welll.. maybe.. but I dont like it in general.. true.. for branding its awesome.. but if I wanted ballons I'd use a mac :P
<troy_s> Well... even then, it isn't like Mac has _always_ done it... that was their design pattern from about 5 years ago.  I believe it is called 'gel'
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: Mac tends to key on that 'elegant' factor by forwarding serifs.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Their font selection is rather transparent in goal.
<darkmatter> yes.. macs serifs are gorgeous
<troy_s> darkmatter: Well again, they have educated designers and artists who _care_
<troy_s> darkmatter: And moreso, the entire team is on the same page.
<darkmatter> apple garamonde, lucidia grande
<darkmatter> just yummy
<troy_s> darkmatter: J. Ive is one part of an entire 'set' that clicks and has a very clear process.
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: I can't remember the exact quote, but J. Ive has publically stated that when his tenure with Apple is complete, above all of his accomplishments at Apple, he will remember the process more than anything.
<troy_s> darkmatter: And it heralds back to the innovation achieved at Xerox's PARC.
<troy_s> darkmatter: The beanbag chairs and whiteboards.
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: In the end, it is all about process.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Something that our little clique could stand to learn a lot from.
<darkmatter> yes... it is
<darkmatter> speaking of process.. I need to get these evil troughs figured out
<troy_s> darkmatter: Yeah alpha please.
<troy_s> darkmatter: lol
<darkmatter> tried an experiment in the wee hoours... not anything polished or actually measured... but still.. didn't work inmho
<darkmatter> troy_s, alpha is so close I can smell it
<troy_s> darkmatter: Fill it with a non generic pattern of sorts.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Something stylized maybe?
<troy_s> (no bloody hatch)
<darkmatter> just in a wee little *stump*... not a real stump... just one of those lets try 15 different things and see what works
<darkmatter> troy_s, there is a lesson in this... to avoid gimp and inkscape when tired  http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=500556710&size=o
<darkmatter> ;)
<darkmatter> uggh
<troy_s> different.
<troy_s> which is positive
<troy_s> kind of cool for a studio setting... but i don't know how many 35ish year old women would appreciate it.
<troy_s> actually _very_ cool for a studio package
<darkmatter> yeah.. my point exactly
<darkmatter> as in the general demographic may not like
<darkmatter> but polished it would go nice for a studio
<darkmatter> which is part of the influence anyway...
<darkmatter> troy_s, its not that I dont like them... just not right for the "generic" version.. but at least it confirmed that I'm on generally the right track design-wise.. as in glory is not rigid
<darkmatter> its actually somewhat flexible in regards to the impression it can give
<darkmatter> which is a plus point that should be maintained
<troy_s> darkmatter: Tis' soft.  About the biggest room for expression is in those scrollbars / progressbars.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Which is why they really need to drop that stale sterile hospital grippers and move on in life to something else.
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> yes
<troy_s> darkmatter:  Best quote of the month:  "Historically I've had a love-hate relationship with Apple. They love themselves and I hate them."
<darkmatter> lol
<troy_s> darkmatter: Wow... what an article.  If you thought that Apple was a total bloody corrupt company:  http://www.tuxdeluxe.org/node/175
<darkmatter> looking
<darkmatter> good. gods.
<troy_s> darkmatter: LOOOOL
<troy_s> darkmatter: "During a screening interview, I was asked how I would design a bike fit for someone visually impaired. I responded something to the effect of, "What, like, for blind people?", and she answered yes."
<troy_s> "I thought for a moment and then I responded, "Well.. a blind person riding a bike doesn't sound like a very safe idea, so I would make the bike stationary, maybe with a fan blowing in the person's face. He probably wouldn't even know the difference."
<darkmatter> hehe
<darkmatter> troy_s, I think I've created the ultimate tagline
<darkmatter> OSX: FreeBSD for Stuckups
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> OSX:  We Steal The House Again!
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> troy_s, its amazing how an os manufacturer so dependant on free software can be such a b*tch about it
<troy_s> darkmatter: And have the gaul to fucking close their source.
<darkmatter> yes
<darkmatter> troy_s, I may love the look n feel of osx... but I dont particularly like apple. I just keep saying I wannaa work for them to harass coz_ xD
<Madpilot> gall, not gaul </pedant>
<troy_s> Madpilot: Thanks.  That would be my head typing in irc mode.
<troy_s> darkmatter: You know how keynote apparently got 'created'
<darkmatter> its called typonese.
<darkmatter> troy_s, how?
<troy_s> S. Jobs caught one of his employees using powerpoint.
<darkmatter> oi...
<BHSPitMonkey> troy_s, lolling at that love-hate quote
<BHSPitMonkey> Madpilot, can I take over your job when you're gone
<Madpilot> BHSPitMonkey, which job, and where am I going?
<BHSPitMonkey> Madpilot, being the house pedant, and somewhere else inevitably
<BHSPitMonkey> (respectively)
<Madpilot> there's room for more than one house pedant, I'm sure. Feel free to join in. :)
<BHSPitMonkey> woot
<troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: yeah its a hilarious quote
<troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: Read that article if you want some insight into the bloody mind campaign that Apple flaunts to its zealots.
<darkmatter> eep!! its the klepas!!! and he's luvin' his fonts! :O
<klepas> ^_^
<klepas> hi darkmatter :)
* darkmatter waves
<klepas> got a release yet of Glory?
<klepas> i want to download it >_<
<klepas> darkmatter: hey
<darkmatter> klepas, not yet... trying to finish of an alpha now
<klepas> no worries then :-)
<darkmatter> klepas, ping
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=501840554&size=o
<darkmatter> I think I oversaturated
<darkmatter> ;)
<Madpilot> I kind of like it, but ya, that gradient is probably a bit too much
<klepas> i'll get back to you later on that
<klepas> heading home now :)
<klepas> but from a quick look
<darkmatter> it looks *ok* at the larger sizes... but kinda makes the smaler tips look plasticky
<klepas> i'd agree--try using a lower saturation
<klepas> *nod*
<klepas> i love the gradient
<klepas> is that a gtk thing?
<klepas> gtg
<darkmatter> kinda... gtk can do that in code... but thats just a 30x30 png being scaled
<lapo> hi
<darkmatter> hi lapo
<lapo> ciao darkmatter
<nothlit> darkmatter: avoid the stickynote look lol
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> yesh...
<darkmatter> notlith... just oversaturated is all... easy fix
<darkmatter> *nothlit
<darkmatter> damn... dyslexic this morn...
<darkmatter> nothlit, http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=501946759&size=o <--- better?
<nothlit> darkmatter: yeah--that slightly 3d aspect unifies the whole thing too :)
<darkmatter> :)
<nothlit> are you going to do something with hilighted menu items?
<darkmatter> yeah.. was thinking of either a very subtle grad and a slight shadow or just a shadow
<klepas> darkmatter: i'm really looking forward to a tarball now
<klepas> with all these previews :)
<darkmatter> :)
<darkmatter> well.. Ineed sleep.. but now that the tricky parts of the alpha are done... it'll take next to nothing to get it finished
<darkmatter> the tricky part was the fake 2pix corners on the tooltips
<darkmatter> since it worked, I think I'll do the same with the menus
<klepas> darkmatter: i don't understand what you mean by the 2px corners?
<darkmatter> look closely at the tooltips. the corners are rounded
<klepas> mhh
<klepas> is there native support for that?
<darkmatter> nope.. its an optical illusion
<darkmatter> it has to do with how the borders are drawn
<klepas> so how did you do it?
<darkmatter> basically theres a 1pix indent on the corner... shadowed over (the tooltip bd color is a neutral gray)
<darkmatter> and the border trick... its done wuth dark chocolate through a brown mustard shade basically.. did a 30x30 pixmap
<darkmatter> the inner 14 pixels is the highlight... darkens towards the corners
<darkmatter> so it basically fattens the tips in the middle
<darkmatter> that combined with the 1 pixel indent tricks the eyes into perceiving a slightly rounded shape
<klepas> whoa
<klepas> that's impressive :)
<darkmatter> its nt 100% perfect yet.. you can still pick up the grey squared edges on dark backgrouns... so I need to tweak the shadowing a bit
<darkmatter> *backgrounds
<darkmatter> since it works with tooltips I'm going to see if the same effect will work with the menus
<klepas> would that add to the overall processing power needed for drawing the widgets?
<darkmatter> no... its only a 1x whatever border
<darkmatter> I havent hit any performance issues with it yet
<darkmatter> partially its because I've kept the theme clean and uncomplicated
<klepas> way to go
<darkmatter> most pixmap themes get kinda baroque with the widgets themselves (kinda heavily drawn)
<darkmatter> troy_s, f34r the tooltips! http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=501946759&size=o
<darkmatter> :P
<troy_s> the grad is nice
<troy_s> try radial from top left too...
<troy_s> (in svg of course ;) )
<darkmatter> :)
<andreasn> I wonder what's up with the openoffice icons
<andreasn> hm, only appears in icons/hicolor/48x48/apps apparently
<andreasn> darkmatter: very nice looking tooltips btw
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-18
<nothlit> troy_s: https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/sketches/
<nothlit> troy_s: if you elaborate on the blueprints thing i could think about how to present it
<troy_s> hrm... have you seen the rather stale blue graphpaper wallpaper
<troy_s> ?
<troy_s> its basically somewhere in between that and a wireframe evolution of wire into life...
<troy_s> let me show you a video i shot... erik did something like it involving a tree...
<nothlit> bah i saved a blank page over it by accident, readding text now
<nothlit> troy_s: i probably haven't seen it
<troy_s> nothlit: I don't know if you have seen this one... hold on...
<troy_s> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0RniSNWdYM
<troy_s> i can't rmember where the wireframe comes into play
<troy_s> but watch it...
<troy_s> it is funny, because it is almost exactly the idea proposed a while back...
<troy_s> nothlit: I think it is after the bridge
<troy_s> 2/3rds
<darkmatter> gods.. drawing with a mouse is like trying to delicately manipulate a VERY large boulder
<darkmatter> I so need a tablet
<nothlit> mousers have done some amazing things too :)
<troy_s> looool
<darkmatter> nothlit, just the method doesnt suit me... to many years with clay and paint and charcoal, if ya hear what I'm saying
<troy_s> darkmatter: amen
<troy_s> mice suck
<troy_s> lets face it
<darkmatter> dont get me wrong... mouse does work... just takes sooo long
<troy_s> if they didn't, the mouse would have preceded the pencil
<nothlit> darkmatter: lol...messy materials there :)
<darkmatter> so hard to get anything right with the mouse
<darkmatter> nothlit, aye. especially the clays
<darkmatter> though I've switched to polymer clay of late.. doesnt feel as natural and not nearly as fun to work with... but easy cleanup
<nothlit> and i'm guessing easier to make molds of
<troy_s> darkmatter: And it gets stuck in those monitor buttons and all over the screen when you are sculpting on it.
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> that too
<darkmatter> nothlit, yup.. doesnt tranfer well to digital applications though
<nothlit> darkmatter: zbrush+tablet for that
<nothlit> especially a cintiq :D *grins*
<darkmatter> yup...if I had a tablet
<darkmatter> you have a cintiq????
<darkmatter> damn.
<nothlit> nah
<nothlit> tabletpc
<troy_s> hell... i spent 900 bucks on an intuitos 2 tab
<troy_s> and now it is junk
<troy_s> sad
<darkmatter> ouch
<nothlit> but all the coolest demos of zbrush are on cintiqs
<troy_s> to be honest, you almost get your best bang for buck out of the bloody graphire / bamboo models
<troy_s> wtf is zbrush?
<troy_s> (prepares for lol)
<nothlit> its like 'painter' for 3d
<nothlit> troy_s: http://www.highend3d.com/articles/reviews/16.html
<darkmatter> I need to brush up on my blender skillz (or lack thereof)
<nothlit> its pretty sophisticated, you can do quite a lot, the modeling is more intuitive, the approach to animation makes sense too--but i don't do 3d lol
<nothlit> theres quite a few narrated videos you can watch
<darkmatter> I was spoiled by maya.... but no free version for nix and no way I'm going tospend 6 grand on open motif :P
<nothlit> oh yars, painting on the model too
<troy_s> ahhh ... i do recall that now..
<troy_s> feck me that is a killer tab
<nothlit> troy_s: so you meant a structure reveal for organic materials?
<troy_s> nothlit: Maybe... migth be cool
<troy_s> nothlit: Some high tech glowey wireframe coolness into an organic structure like roots or...
<troy_s> nothlit: Root to electricity
<nothlit> troy_s: hows that represent progress?
<troy_s> nothlit: I think if you create the rooty's as sort of evolving into electricity possibly it could work
<troy_s> nothlit: or coming together and moving forwards
<nothlit> troy_s: and the collaboration?
<troy_s> nothlit: I was thinking of a merging / progression
<troy_s> nothlit: half being the coming together of the roots / vines / wahteer
<troy_s> nothlit: and half being the flashy glowey techy 'wow' portion
<darkmatter> AHHA! thats what I'll do with the steppers!
* darkmatter rapidly cracks open the gimp
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-19
* #ubuntu-artwork  [freenode-info]  please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<darkmatter> troy_s, but I'm still damn serious about needing a *HIG* for gfx. as in get all the messed up crap in gnome fixed. Because one thing theming has taught me over the years is GTK APPLICATIONS ARE FREAKIN DISORGANIZED PILES OF CRAP!!!!!
<darkmatter> excuse the shoutin' ;)
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> darkmatter: Tis true... I don't know if 'HIG" is the right term
<troy_s> darkmatter: It s a load of shit that people push around pretending it to be real.
<darkmatter> lol.. likely not the right term
<darkmatter> aye
<troy_s> darkmatter: How many humans are there?  Probably at least as many guidelines.
<darkmatter> indeed
<troy_s> darkmatter: That said, yes... a SPECIFIC AND CLEARLY outlines audience design pattern wouldn't hurt.
<darkmatter> troy_s,  "IDG". happy :P
<troy_s> darkmatter: I still say break the fucking link between the devs and the interface
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: I keep returning to it because it is the _most logical_ thing I have seen yet.
<darkmatter> troy_s, the only link devs should have to the ui is binding the callbacks ;)
<troy_s> darkmatter: Indeed.  The rest should be profile based / layered
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: Such that you could say, combine 'expert user' with 'visually impaired' with a layering technique
<troy_s> darkmatter: About all we can do is bitch and do what you can however.
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: It seems that either following what someone else is doing is a great idea
<troy_s> darkmatter: Or you wait until someone rubs your nose in something _soooooo_ badly that everyone wakes up and goes 'hey maybe its time for change'
<troy_s> darkmatter: I am already seeing the fucking barrage of iphone dupes now
<troy_s> it makes me puke
<troy_s> darkmatter: J. Ive == very talented guy, did a lot for apple, brilliant mind,
<troy_s> but um
<troy_s> can we just let him do his thing and perhaps try to pursue the name of innovation
<troy_s> chasing ANYTHING ALWAYS locates you in at best -- second place.
<troy_s> Hello Ubuntu!
<darkmatter> so many levels of issues to... including things like "why in f**king hell did that idiot programmer use a listveiw to draw that element instead of a flat box!!???"
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> completely
<troy_s> I just wish Ubuntu would actually hire a DESIGNER
<troy_s> it drives me fucking bonkers
<troy_s> _bon_kers_
<darkmatter> hehe... I wish gnome would higher a slave driver to whip the devs into shape
<darkmatter> troy_s, yeah... and I have just one thing to say in regards to the whole Follow-the-Leader mentality: " I.   LOATH.   SHEEP. "
<troy_s> darkmatter: Well change is healthy
<troy_s> darkmatter: Difference is _good_
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: Ubuntu is _different_ so let it _BE_ fucking different
<troy_s> darkmatter: Let it be beautiful
<darkmatter> indeed
<troy_s> darkmatter: I can't think of anything more pathetic than the utterly completely half assed 10 minute gradient working in the ubuntus
<troy_s> darkmatter: It is beyond comprehension.
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> yes
<troy_s> darkmatter: Ubuntu's the big boy on the block, it could do with having one of the smaller guys kick its ass around a little.
<troy_s> darkmatter: It is just so frighteningly corporate 'wannabe' and yet it is realistically utterly niche
<troy_s> darkmatter: Such that it might want to consider a design pattern that does _SOMETHING_
<darkmatter> hehe
<troy_s> darkmatter: it is _especially_ insulting when you have artists (and I mean artists) such as coz_ around
<troy_s> etc
<troy_s> darkmatter: He has abilities that _shame_ many
<troy_s> darkmatter: of course the artistic temperment comes with that, but so be it.
<troy_s> darkmatter: you rally someone like that, you manage to gain much.
<darkmatter> troy_s, yup
<darkmatter> troy_s, the artistic temperament is a wondrous thing. though at times people cant stand mine :P
<darkmatter> troy_s, you'll have the alpha today ;)
<darkmatter> of the gtk
<nothlit> lol, i think you should just announce it to the whole channel ;p
<darkmatter> hopefull metacity wont take to long
<darkmatter> oops
<darkmatter> :P
<darkmatter> bbiab
<troy_s> darkmatter: Thanks mate
<troy_s> darkmatter: I can finally get towards alpha.
<nothlit> troy_s: https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/sketches/tree_wireframe_energy.png like this?
<troy_s> nothlit: It might be nice to see what some of the 3d artists can do
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-05-20
<klepas> darkmatter: ping
<darkmatter> troy_s, pong
<klepas> hey darkmatter
<klepas> =S
<darkmatter> hi klepas
<klepas> how is the Glory work going?
<darkmatter> almost alpha'd
<darkmatter> just finishing up a few widgets
<klepas> is there a tarball for me to play with?
<darkmatter> not yet... but there woll be not to long from now
<darkmatter> *will, even
<klepas> nice
<troy_s> darkmatter: You called?
<darkmatter> no, you did
<darkmatter> :P
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=505231256&context=set-72157594488098254&size=o <--- MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
<dilomo> hi everybody
<dilomo> what's upwith the palette?
<troy_s> darkmatter: you interested in helping tweak some ubuntu studio gtk elements?
<troy_s> darkmatter: ping me when you are back
<meatballhat> troy_s: ping!
<troy_s> meatballhat: Shower go for me
<troy_s> meatballhat: about to shower anyways
<meatballhat> :D go clean self!
<troy_s> meatballhat: have you gotten any progress?
<meatballhat> you could say that ;-)  ... we're having a meet about it in #ubuntu-marketing right now
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<troy_s> darkmatter: Ping
<troy_s> darkmatter: Ping
<troy_s> darkmatter: Ping
<troy_s> kwwii can you link me to the current svg for the ubuntu branding CoF with text?
<troy_s> (as in the one that you based off of Who's and turned into the Feisty current for the GDM)
<troy_s> I need the SVG if at all possible.
<kwwii> troy_s: http://sinecera.de/usplash_2fc.svg and http://sinecera.de/gdmFrom_2fc.svg
<darkmatter> troy_s, yesh, you ponged?
<darkmatter> yo' troy_s you SPAMMER :P. what did ya' want?
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-12
<savvas> hm..
<savvas> .odb is missing a default icon :)
<thorwil> troy_s: remember my problem with the wacom? found out all i had to do was to kick the "Option "AlwaysCore" "on"" entries
<troy_s> thorwil: yep... had that too here
 * nox-Hand yawns
<nox-Hand> Think this entire channel is in collective sleep =)
<emotionalwhitema> WANTED ! single white female 17 to 70 with red hair(blonde will do) a high I.Q. and good morals----freckles are a plus
<emotionalwhitema> hello people
<jussi01> kwwii: troy_s you around?
<emotionalwhitema> jussi wadda ya know
<jussi01> emotionalwhitema: Im after one of those 2 people
<emotionalwhitema> are ya
<emotionalwhitema> hope ya cath em
<emotionalwhitema> catch
<nox-Hand> On a poster about Ubuntu, do I need to add something like "ubuntu logo is copyright of canonical" or something?
<_MMA_> nox-Hand: Couldn't hurt.
<nox-Hand> _MMA_: Got an idea of where I'd get a good example of what to write at bottom?
<nox-Hand> _MMA_: About to release my possibly final version of my Ubuntu poster (except I have not translated it to English yet, that will come later this week)
<_MMA_> "Ubuntu logo is a trademark of Canonical Ltd." Should be dine.
<_MMA_> s/dine/fine
<nox-Hand> Will check what some guy wrote on his poster, I remember he wrote something good *loads up firefox*
<nox-Hand> Alright, here is the possibly FINAL version of my poster design for Ubuntu, but I'd like YOUR (yes, reader, that means YOU) opinion on my poster before I upload to Ubuntu's artwork site
<nox-Hand> http://nox-hand.com/docs/images/kom_it_plakat4 _small.jpg  <-- there it is
<nox-Hand> NOTES; This is not full res. There is an A1 (not A4, but 8x larger page) size output on my computer. || The text is currently DANISH, but will be translated to English upon upload.
<nox-Hand> Another note, the screenshots are to be changed by me tomorrow to some more interesting ones, a Ubuntu desktop with Firefox usinng the Ubuntu 8.04 start page, music player, etc.
<nand> nox-Hand: I got a 404 :s
<nox-Hand> http://nox-hand.com/docs/images/kom_it_plakat4%20_small.jpg <-- nand
<nox-Hand> nand: There was a space in my link
<nox-Hand> Sorry =)
<nand> eh, looks nice! Just one thing: you should maybe use two different screenshot for the left and right screenshot
<nox-Hand> nand: [22:33:27] <nox-Hand> Another note, the screenshots are to be changed by me tomorrow to some more interesting ones, a Ubuntu desktop with Firefox usinng the Ubuntu 8.04 start page, music player, etc.
<nox-Hand> =] -- just temporary screenshots I found on the net until I got something new =)
<nand> sry, skipped that part :)
<nox-Hand> No worries
<nand> otherwise I like the texture background, and the general organization of the poster
<nand> but I can't say anything about the text itself :)
<nand> have to go, see ya!
<kwwii> re
<_MMA_> tarded
<nox-Hand> kwwii: welcome back
<nox-Hand> _MMA_: So mature ;)
<_MMA_> Yes. Yes it was.
<nox-Hand> *hands _MMA_ a free beer*
 * _MMA_ doesn't drink.
<kwwii> _MMA_: is wierd enough without alcohol
<kwwii> :p
<nox-Hand> kwwii: ++
<_MMA_> nox-Hand: Sorry but ya don't know me. Cant really agree with Ken. ;)
<nox-Hand> haha
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-13
<o0Chris0o> hey guys
<o0Chris0o> and gals :)
<troy_s> hello o
<troy_s> o0Chris0o rather
<o0Chris0o> I am wondering what artwork is needed at this time? I want to become a member, I am a graphic artist by trade
<o0Chris0o> :)
<troy_s> Great to have you around o0Chris0o, but the nature of the beast is such that there isn't really anything 'needed' per se.
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: Do you have any samples of work or a portfolio?
<o0Chris0o> actually no, sadly I lost most of it awhile back. I haven't been messing with graphics in awhile, but I took classes in school and  I taught myself some html as well when I was growing up
<o0Chris0o> should I just make some logos up of each flavor of ubuntu and some wallpaper art of some sort
<troy_s> Right... ok... well welcome around.
<troy_s> I must get off to bed.
<troy_s> A good starting point to understand the situation might be the mailing list archives or any of the other venues in our long and illustrious history.
<troy_s> The wiki has some information but it wasn't horribly up to date as of my last examination.
<o0Chris0o> and how can I find that :)
<troy_s> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<troy_s> The wiki root has most information I believe
<troy_s> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork
<troy_s> iirc.
<troy_s> hope that helps.
<o0Chris0o> thanks for you rhelp troy_s, have a good sleep :)
<troy_s> if you have any questions please feel 100% free to contact me via email.
<troy_s> Ciao for now.
<o0Chris0o> :) Ciao, and will do
<kwwii> morning
<kwwii> hi troy_s
<o0Chris0o> Morning kwwii, troy_s went beddy bye
<o0Chris0o> <---new
<o0Chris0o> :)
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> o0Chris0o: cool, thanks for coming by :-)
<kwwii> there is a lot to do, it shouldn't be hard to find something
<o0Chris0o> np, I'll be sticking here for awhile I'm sure.
<o0Chris0o> Oh really?
<o0Chris0o> can you point me in the right direction?
<savvas> grrr
<savvas> is anyone up for a test task?
<o0Chris0o> what kind o.0
<kwwii> well, as troy_s pointed out, checking the wiki for general info is the right place to start, but you might not find a specific task there
<kwwii> currently we have a few people working on theme teams
<o0Chris0o> oh I see
<kwwii> which means that they are creating a theme based on their own vision
<kwwii> in addition we also do the default artwork
<savvas> www.filedropper.com - hit upload - do you see "red x" icons? if not, go check out the files do the files have a red x icon?
<kwwii> but that is much more controversial while we cannot simply do whatever we'd like with it
<o0Chris0o> ahh I see
<kwwii> so we do icons, splash screens, login manager themes, and desktop wallpaper, mainly
<o0Chris0o> sounds good kwwii
<kwwii> currently I am working on some ideas for a wallpaper with an Ibex on it
<o0Chris0o> savvas: I don't see red x
<savvas> o0Chris0o: you use x86 ubuntu?
<kwwii> I'll probably send an email to the mailing list in a bit saying that we are looking for ideas on how to include an Ibex in the wallpaper somehow
<kwwii> savvas: do you mean in the browser window itself?
<kwwii> or in the tab?
<savvas> kwwii: yes hold a sec, let me find the screenshots
<savvas> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14480177/now-files-only.png
<o0Chris0o> savvas: yes I am
<kwwii> savvas: hrm, that looks like a bug to me
<savvas> hm.. so it's probably 64-bit based
<savvas> it is, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/218635
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 218635 in firefox-3.0 "firefox - red x icons in upload dialogs" [Low,Confirmed]
<kwwii> savvas: that does not look like that in my firefox with the hardy default theme
<o0Chris0o> ahh 3.0
<savvas> I just can't figure out why they marked invalid the packages i saw the problems in
<o0Chris0o> thats still in beta isn't it?
<kwwii> savvas: I think it is a problem with the icon theme not firefox
<savvas> (npviewer.bin:24265): Gtk-WARNING **: /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/filesystems/libgio.so: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64
<kwwii> hrm, freaky
<kwwii> then it is a 64 bit bug :p
<savvas> :P
<kwwii> killer, that effecting the icons
 * kwwii runs to the gas station, bbiab
<o0Chris0o> !ibex
<ubottu> Intrepid Ibex is the code name for Ubuntu 8.10, due October 2008 - For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex
<savvas> ibex.. heh
<o0Chris0o> ahh
<savvas> the next name should be Mighty Mouflon :P
<o0Chris0o> :)
<o0Chris0o> how does ubuntu come up with these names?
<savvas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames
<o0Chris0o> course, should of wiki'd it :)
<savvas> :)
<kwwii> my guess is that the next one will be called the jerky jackass
<kwwii> btw, if you have two computers you want to use at the same time I seriously suggest using synergy (mouse, keyboard and paste across different computers)
<o0Chris0o> heh :) only one computer
<kwwii> less to worry about ;-9
<o0Chris0o> true
<o0Chris0o> Hey kwwii, the artwork here is it just for "ubuntu" and not other flavors?
<o0Chris0o> or is it for all
<kwwii> o0Chris0o: it is for all flavors, but some of the others have people working on artwork as well
<kwwii> but they would all love any help they can get
<o0Chris0o> I see
<kwwii> although the wiki page is mainly used for ubuntu somehow
<kwwii> not sure why, really
<o0Chris0o> yeah I know what you mean
<kwwii> if you are interested in any of the other flavors I could also help you get in contact with the team leads, etc
<kwwii> well, I guess only xubuntu and kubuntu really have their own artwork anyway
<kwwii> not sure about any others
<kwwii> but in the end, pretty much anything you can do would be appreciated
<o0Chris0o> I see
<o0Chris0o> yeah definately :)
<o0Chris0o> Id like to work with Kubuntu mostly
<o0Chris0o> but wallpapers and logos are pretty easy I can help out in all flavors
<o0Chris0o> splash screens as well
<o0Chris0o> not really into the icons :)
<kwwii> cool, I am pretty invovled with the kubuntu stuff as well
<kwwii> so I can help you get involved, if you need any help
<o0Chris0o> yeah definately :) I'm new, so much help is appreciated :)
<o0Chris0o> I signed up on the mailing list too btw
<kwwii> excellent, that is a good way to start
<kwwii> the mailing list and irc are the two most important forms of communication for us
<o0Chris0o> alright, I am on IRC 24/7 if I'm not here, I'm usually idling
<kwwii> if you have kubuntu specific questions ask me or perhaps on #kubuntu-devel
<kwwii> cool :-)
<o0Chris0o> alright not a prob
<o0Chris0o> what progams do you use to for the creation of your artwork? and where do you get clip-art from usually?
<kwwii> I use inkscape mainly
<kwwii> gimp a bit as well
<kwwii> and krita to draw bitmap with
<o0Chris0o> heh weird how freenode has you set up the vhost or cloak, I didn't want my ip being displayed  much I thought you could change them to whateve you would like :) but I guess "unaffiliated/o0chris0o" is sticking :)
<o0Chris0o> ahh alright, thanks I will check em out, I use gimp a bit too :)
<kwwii> hehe, I still don't do cloaking...too much work
<kwwii> have fun!
<o0Chris0o> thanks :)
 * kwwii is out for lunch
 * _MMA_ smacks kwwii for the "ï»¿I guess only xubuntu and kubuntu really have their own artwork" comment.
<psyke83> hey
<WarMX> hi there
<_MMA_> hi
<WarMX> wht's up
<kwwii> re
<savvas> ..habilitation :)
<kwwii> no doubt
<troy_s> kwwii: Where can I get the oxygen SVG sources, or better, a Gnome based namespace collection for them?
<kwwii> troy_s: we don't have any official or unofficial gnome packages but I think you could find one on gnome-look.org
<kwwii> the sources themselves are in kde svn
<kwwii>  https://svn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/KDE/kdebase/runtime/pics/oxygen
<troy_s> kwwii: They are all SVG I am assuming?
<kwwii> we have all sizes of png files and svgz's for everything (even the smaller sized png files)
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> in some cases we have a 16x16 svg, a 22x22 svg, a 32x32 svg and a big svg
<kwwii> and the corresponding png files
<kwwii> oh, and you'll find scripts to render all of it there too
<troy_s> kwwii: Awsome.  I'm only really interested in the SVGs and the pre-renders I suppose.
<kwwii> yeah, I assumed that too
<kwwii> it is nice to have *all* the sources I think
<kwwii> also, there is another module with icons which were earlier versions or unused
<kwwii> https://wimer@svn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/playground/artwork/Oxygen
<kwwii> now that I think about it I guess it would be easier to get them in a kubuntu source package
<kwwii> not sure the name of that though
<kwwii> we only work on them directly in kde svn
<troy_s> kwwii: Hrm.  It would be worth packaging them up in an Ubuntu repository no?
<troy_s> kwwii: With metapacks maybe so that you have ONE 'real' repository for the actual binary blobs and one each for k / g naming convention links etc.
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, that is something that would be worth looking into
<kwwii> also perhaps providing the necessary symlinks to make them work well with gnome
<kwwii> oxygen is pretty complete in the meantime so I think we could cover most icons needed
<troy_s> kwwii: That's what I mean.
<troy_s> kwwii: That is really a legwork thing.  IF we setup an index.theme file for it and some dirs, we should be able to get oxygen into gnome easily... the main thing is keeping sync.
<troy_s> kwwii: I know there is some bzr-fu or launchpad-fu for syncing with SVN... let me ask...
<kwwii> I am updating my bzr branch now (slow connection tonight), I think that they are currently in kubuntu-default-settings, let me check
<kwwii> wow, it seems that they are directly in the kde runtime package
<kwwii> freaky
<kwwii> that puts the entire set in kdebase
<troy_s> kwwii: Yeah its like a 40 meg download (when I put the ppa on for kde 4)
<troy_s> kwwii: <rexbron> A VCS guy/LP admin has to manually test and then approve the import
<troy_s> kwwii: IF you can find someone to do that, we could probably work on getting the naming conventions in place.
<kwwii> troy_s: I guess I should start off by talking to the kubuntu peeps, they might be interested in seperating out the icon theme
<troy_s> kwwii: Well yes... it would lessen their needs then I suppose.
<troy_s> kwwii: What would be nice is to get Oxygen in such a state that adding it is as easy as adding Tango or whatever.
<troy_s> kwwii: And that would mean getting it such that the base package is avoiding duplicates for both DEs.
<kwwii> troy_s: to be honest, in the past we have tried to keep oxygen out of other desktops (including kde3)
<kwwii> but I think that now that kde4 is out and about it might be time to start thinking about that
<troy_s> kwwii: Ugh.
<troy_s> kwwii: Unfortunate.
<troy_s> kwwii: As that gets back into political stuffs that I really don't want to have any part of.  Can you manage it?
<troy_s> kwwii:  (As in getting the official blessing so that a repository doesn't get some strange firestorm of blah)
<_MMA_> troy_s: I told you already there would be this. ;)
<kwwii> troy_s: well, it is not really political, more a marketing decision than anything else
<kwwii> we made oxygen for kde4, it had to stand out as something new for the new release
<kwwii> but now that cat is out of the bag so I imagine that we can take care of this somehow
<_MMA_> But PR handling is only for an "official" effort. If it's something you do for your own needs, rock on. \m/
<troy_s> _MMA_: True, but god knows what happened the last time I saw someone package Oxygen for GNOME.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Which is odd considering the license... but c'est la vie.
<_MMA_> There's like 3 of 'em on GNOME-look. Cant really stop that.
<kwwii> actually, in the past I simply asked Frank (my friend who runs the *-look sites) to take them down
<kwwii> but now I see no reason to
<kwwii> and nobody else on the oxygen team has complained
<kwwii> whereas in the past we had two very loud artists getting upset :-)
<kwwii> actually, I see it as very positive that people want to use it on other desktops :-)
<_MMA_> kwwii: Before release, yeah. I could see why.
<kwwii> well, we spent more than two years working on it
<kwwii> and only put it in an open svn a year or so ago
<_MMA_> kwwii: Yes. "We" do. But you know how vocal the zealots get. :)
<kwwii> and immediatly people started making kde3 versions and gnome versions
<kwwii> actually, the kde3 versions were the only ones that pissed me off
<kwwii> I mean, if the kde community cannot control itself for it's own benefit then who can?
 * _MMA_ shrugs.
<troy_s> kwwii: But that is the nature of the license I suppose.
<troy_s> kwwii: The only option is to pick a more limited license until xxx date then shift it (which you can obviously do being the sole copyright holder -- although I have no idea how complicated that gets when the copyright holder is the 'Oxygen team' or whatever)
<kwwii> troy_s: right, at first when it was only on our ftp server we had no license, which is really the most restrictive
<kwwii> after that we put it out as CCbySA
<kwwii> and then we moved to gpl3 to be compliant with all upstreams and kde4 itself
<kwwii> wow...did you guys read the email from MS to the blender people? kinda funny
<kwwii> lol, sometimes I think that the biggest thing Cimi has going against him is his ego
<kwwii> maybe if I was that good I would be the same way ;-)
<_MMA_> kwwii: Yeah. I saw it. Asstastic.
<_MMA_> kwwii: I and others in Ubuntu have a good dialog with those guys. They use Ubuntu. ;)
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> anyone know a command line tool to convert color values?
<kwwii> looking at turning the hex values of the palette into a gimp palette so we can test it and tweak it
<_MMA_> kwwii: Agave can build a palette for GIMP.
<_MMA_> Fire it up. Add colors to the "favorites" side-panel then you can export it.
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, but I only want the ones that i define
<kwwii> and I do not want to type it all in :-)
<kwwii> I guess I could do it with hexdump somehow
<kwwii> actually, that and a simple bash script shouldn't be too much
<kwwii> probably take longer than just typing it all in but much more satisfying :P
<nox-Hand> http://nox-hand.com/docs/images/Poster_final_danish_small.jpg <-- Final poster design for post to Ubuntu Artwork
<nox-Hand> Will have translation to English in a few days, so it can be uploaded.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Make 1 with Agave to see the formatting. SHould give you a start.
<kwwii> dude, I understand the formatting
<kwwii> I was hoping someone knew how to make it easy
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> i made a list in hex
<kwwii> dumb me
<kwwii> and now I don't want to have to do it again
<kwwii> great, now I have a facebook profile as well
<kwwii> between a blog I never blog on, a linkedIn profile I couldn't give a rat's ass about and a facebook profile
<kwwii> and all this while I watch my 10 year old son login to his school network every morning to upload pics to his profile and send messages (*hug*)
<kwwii> boah, I am an old man
<kwwii> time for bed
<yharrow> hey guys
<yharrow> anyone know off hand who created the wallpaper for hardy?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-14
<o0Chris0o> I have no idea o.0
<troy_s> God.
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Fela_Kuti
<o0Chris0o> hey I am new
<o0Chris0o> I didn't know
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: No not you... but it should be easy to find out the info.
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: Alternately, I believe the 'AUTHORS' file of every source package will list the relevant folks.
<o0Chris0o> I see
<o0Chris0o> bah ;) I don't know where to start
<o0Chris0o> I am new, I just want to make some decent wall papers and logos, some splash images..etc
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: Then go for it.
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: Don't worry about anything else.
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: Just do.
<o0Chris0o> sounsd good :)
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: There are many people who would love to see what you are capable of.
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: I wouldn't let trying to follow the tendrils of Ubuntu art and design main foible you.
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: Ubuntu isn't there yet.  Maybe try Fedora.  That said, it isn't like the Fedora camp has done anything art / design wise that should garner any attention since F7
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: 8 and the ever worse 9 are yikes.
<o0Chris0o> I never used fedora
<DanaG> 8 was fine-ish, 9 was ugly.
<DanaG> SuSE 9.2 was nice, 9.3 was about the same, but everything thereafter was worse.
<o0Chris0o> how do I install the ubuntu font?
<troy_s> DanaG: 8 was far far far away from fine.  Diana _was_ the stunning Fedora work.  When she left, there was nothing.
<troy_s> DanaG: Just look at how completely mediocre 8 was -- tonally, conceptually, execution, _everything_.
<DanaG> I guess that's what I meant by fine-ish.  Mediocre is a better word.
<troy_s> DanaG: Unfortunately, when you set a bar with 7, it doesn't even reach mediocre.
<DanaG> Oh, did you mean "artist" instead of "work"?  "Diana" is the name of a person....
<troy_s> DanaG: Diana Fong.
<troy_s> DanaG: MFA
<DanaG> MFA?  Oh, perhaps you're being tricky with the use of "WAS".
<troy_s> DanaG: Lol.  No.  Masters of Fine Arts.
<DanaG> AAh.
<DanaG> Sorry, I was just hung up on the wording: [A person] was the [work].
<troy_s> DanaG: Well I intended it to be that "Diana was everything to do with Fedora's success."
<DanaG> Aah.
<o0Chris0o> where can I download the ubuntu font?
<o0Chris0o> so I am able to use it in artwork
<savvas> isn't it included already?
<BHSPitLappy> It's called Continuum
<BHSPitLappy> and it's downloadable from the same part of the site where you can get other official artwork
<BHSPitLappy> Google harder
<o0Chris0o> lol
<o0Chris0o> excuse me for asking first
<o0Chris0o> sorry, didn't think it was a problem
<savvas> o0Chris0o: sudo apt-get install ttf-ubuntu-title
<savvas> :)
<o0Chris0o> thanks savvas
<savvas> or here heh: http://www.dafont.com/ubuntu-title.font
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: It's in the repos.
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: savvas gave you the proper repository version iirc.
<o0Chris0o> ok
<o0Chris0o> so its not the right one
<savvas> hm?
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: No, what savvas said was the exact command to get it to your desktop.  There _is_ a modified version out there that is more professional looking, but it hasn't been adopted yet.
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: (and by more professional I mean that in the most typical of fashions -- more sculpted bowls with tapered axis lines etc.)
<o0Chris0o> I see
<savvas> !!
<savvas> where? :)
<savvas> you have the link troy_s ?
<troy_s> savvas: Let me find it for you.
<o0Chris0o> I wish it was that easy when I asked first
<o0Chris0o> all I get is "google harder"
<o0Chris0o> lol
<o0Chris0o> j/k
<troy_s> savvas: http://betatype.com/node/36
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> DON'T GOOGLE THAT term... ;)
<savvas> mm sweet! thanks
<troy_s> savvas: Don't expect matches though.
<troy_s> savvas: He introduced a slightly modified humanist axis IIRC.
<troy_s> savvas: Although it is subtle.
<DanaG> Sure would be easier to tell with a side-by-side comparison pic.
<DanaG> Or over-under comparison.
<troy_s> DanaG: Not exactly unless you are sort of knowing what you are looking for.
<troy_s> DanaG: The biggest shift to get it more professional is the introduction of an axis.
<DanaG> Right now it's Apples and...... oh wait, the other one isn't even here.  Great.
<troy_s> DanaG: From what I have seen of it, it is homogenous (as opposed to say, a post modern font with non homogenous axis).
<troy_s> DanaG: Did you type that line of savvas ?
<troy_s> DanaG: sudo aptitude install ttf-ubuntu-title
<DanaG> By "not even here" -- I mean in the page.
<troy_s> DanaG: ???
<DanaG> Otherwise, I have to install both fonts, and type up my own thing with both fonts.
<troy_s> DanaG: You can have both co-existing as they are under different names.
<troy_s> DanaG: If you are interested.
<DanaG> ah.  My whole point was that the web page itself would be better if it showed a comparison for us.
<DanaG> The actual differences don't concern me much -- I don't use the font myself, for anything.
<troy_s> DanaG: Oh... you need to be familiar with the font to appreciate what he did to it.  And even then, by and large, most casual onlookers would probably not see much of a difference between the Fedora font and Ubuntu's anyways.
<troy_s> (rightfully so.)
<DanaG> Aah.
<DanaG> That reminds me... font rendering is one of my big reasons for using Linux as my primary OS.
<DanaG> DejaVu fonts and subpixel rendering -- sure beats Cleartype.  The latter actually makes my eyes hurt.
<troy_s> DanaG: Font rendering is largely bound up with patent restrictions which is, by and large, why Linux's isn't quite as good as say, MacOSXs
<DanaG> Between OS X and Linux... they look quite different, but the actual subjective "quality" as a scalar-- I can't decide which I like better, actually.
<troy_s> DanaG: The main issue is the hinting logic as the rendering engines have proprietary and patent restricted uses of the byte code hinting.
<troy_s> DanaG: There has been some great work done on the free rendering front for certain.
<savvas> did anyone hear who won the launchpad logo or which decision was made regarding the logo contest?
<savvas> all they say at the website is "The contest is now closed and a decision has been reached!" :\
<o0Chris0o> is ubuntu-studio a flavor of ubuntu?
<o0Chris0o> nvm
<o0Chris0o> do any of you guys use it ;)
<savvas> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/hardy/release/ :p
<o0Chris0o> cool, do any of ya's use it :)
<o0Chris0o> looks pretty cool
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: One of the devs (the head one) lives in here.
<o0Chris0o> heh
<troy_s> o0Chris0o: _ MMA_ (I added the space to avoid pinging him)
<o0Chris0o> cool
<troy_s> savvas: And no, no decision.  If history serves as any indicator, don't hold your breath.  ;)
<savvas> ah ok
<troy_s> savvas: There is also a very likely probability (well likely is probably strong) that they dislike all of the submissions.
<troy_s> savvas: Which is a bit of a weak point in the whole 'contest' system of design.
<savvas> they should let the people decide, not the devs
<savvas> :\
<troy_s> savvas: Make no mistake, voting isn't a good path for innovative design either.  Arguably not even not-so-innovative.
<savvas> true, very true
<troy_s> savvas: There just isn't some sort of silver bullet to alleviate anything as complicated as art and design woes.
<o0Chris0o> I got a question, if you find a peice of artwork online...a good backdrop for  what you want..would I be able to use it?
<kwwii> o0Chris0o: it depends on where it comes from and the license it is under
<o0Chris0o> thats the thing
<o0Chris0o> how do you tell?
<o0Chris0o> lol
<o0Chris0o> photobucket
<kwwii> you talk to the author
<kwwii> or look for any information which is posted with the pictures
<o0Chris0o> I see
<o0Chris0o> hmm
<o0Chris0o> I dunno, I am so used to doing stuff for myself instead of "commerically" lol I never asked permission to use work I found of the net
<o0Chris0o> you know of any image upload sites that will temporary save the address? so I can show others the work
<o0Chris0o> ahh nvm, I rememered one tinypic ;)
<o0Chris0o> its beena while since I messed arund with graphics
<o0Chris0o> but here we go http://i32.tinypic.com/w8t6wz.jpg
<o0Chris0o> if I were to use this as a wallpaper and send it in, I would most likely have to talk to the author or find the author :)
<o0Chris0o> am kinda rusty still
<o0Chris0o> kwwii ^
<kwwii> o0Chris0o: hey, pretty nifty
<o0Chris0o> ehh I can do better, but just trying to get the feel of girmp, a lil different then photoshop
<o0Chris0o> gimp*
<kwwii> yeah, gimp is really different than photoshop
<kwwii> from time to time I still use photoshop because of that :-)
<o0Chris0o> if I had a mac
<kwwii> but don't tell anyone
<o0Chris0o> Id love to get photoshop
<kwwii> :p
<o0Chris0o> oooo!
<o0Chris0o> its handy
<o0Chris0o> whast the newest out now photoshop 3?
<o0Chris0o> CS3
<kwwii> yes, I think so
<o0Chris0o> what if you can't find an author of a picture?
<o0Chris0o> or backdrop
<kwwii> then it is probably best not to use it
<DanaG> Ugh, that background reminds me of a low-quality CRT.
<DanaG> .... such as a standard TV.
<o0Chris0o> yeah thats one of the plugins I used in gimp
<kwwii> well, for the wallpaper it is probably best to not use lines like that as it will sometimes be scaled down and that will cause a moire effect
<o0Chris0o> I see
<DanaG> And try putting it on a cube and rotating that cube.
<o0Chris0o> compiz?
<DanaG> Yeah.
<o0Chris0o> does it look like crap or something?
<DanaG> Yeah.
<DanaG> Closely spaced parallel lines do, that is.
<o0Chris0o> I see, trying to get ccsm running but the window froze
<o0Chris0o> weird
<o0Chris0o> can't close it out
<o0Chris0o> ahh I like the terminal comes in handy to kill things
<o0Chris0o> brb
<savvas> would this be a nice start for an ibex wallpaper? :) http://savvas.radevic.com/previews/ubuntu-ibex/ubuntu-ibex-0.1.png
<kwwii> looks more like a poster to me
<kwwii> I like the idea of using some kind of stylized ibex though
<DanaG> I hope we get something as cool as the current Heron.
<DanaG> I'm actually using the transparent SVG version (linked right above the "gdm theme" screenshot on the wiki).
<o0Chris0o> ibex is a type of ram huh
<o0Chris0o> I am out guys bbl
<o0Chris0o> have fun, have an art-tastic day!
<o0Chris0o> lol
<kwwii> hehe, see you
<savvas> kwwii: it's still in development, I got about 5 months to finish it :P
<kwwii> savvas: hehe :-)
<DanaG> Oh hey, random thing about day transitions:  this ending theme here does it:
<DanaG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB70vGTigh0
<thorwil> mean. there has been an edit on https://help.launchpad.net/logo/submissions this morning. now you can read a decision has been made
<thorwil> but still no word on which one it will be
<o0Chris0o> cool alot of nice logos
<o0Chris0o> I bet it was tuff
<thorwil> sure
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-15
<ethana2> ah
<ethana2> I've made a mess of my themes with gedit again
<ethana2> I understand you're here to make artwork for ubuntu
<ethana2> would you recommend a different channel for theme related questions?
<ethana2> I want to use the glossy theme for everything
<ethana2> widgets and window decorations
<ethana2> I want my title bars to be 12 pixels thick
<ethana2> right now they're like 8
<ethana2> oh no, human and glossy are different /all/ through them
<ethana2> and I've screwed them both over royally
<ethana2> before I knew I could do half the stuff with gconf-editor
<ethana2> so I broke everything and am using the 'simple' window decoration theme /because/ it ignores my settings
<ethana2> working around myself..  *rubs forehead*
<ethana2> ok, where do I get a non-borked /usr/share/themes/$THEME/metacity-1/metacity-theme-1.xml for Glossy and Human?
<ethana2> Is there a command I can use to reconfigure my theme information?
<DanaG> ethana2: I can put my stock ones on my Cal Poly web space temporarily.
<DanaG> Or you can purge and reinstall the package.
<ethana2> DanaG: what package name?
<ethana2> for the glossy and human themes?
 * ethana2 searches
<DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette
<DanaG> I just put the whole folders Human and Glossy there.
<ethana2> thanks, DanaG
<ethana2> I'm nearing perfection with my gui!
<ethana2> wget puts things in the current folder, right?
<ethana2> yeah
<ethana2> I hope it handles overwriting well
<DanaG> You can use a browser and just copy the metacity xml.
<ethana2> yeah, I'll do that
<ethana2> drat, still messed up
<ethana2> whatever have I done?
<DanaG> Hmm, you may have to kill gnome-settings-daemon to force it to reload the theme.
<ethana2> ah
<ethana2> ok, I did that, still messed up
<ethana2> wow, what a number I did
<ethana2> better document the part that did what I wanted
<ethana2> alright, well, I'm going to reinstall soon I guess
<ethana2> got all my working changes in my email account
<ethana2> thanks, rock on, and good day.
<DShepherd> fedora art is not bad at all
<DShepherd> what do you think of it?
<troy_s> DShepherd: Completely ass.
<troy_s> DShepherd: In the typical IRC response.  ;)
<DShepherd> hehehe
<troy_s> DShepherd: More appropriately 1) Lacking a clear message, 2) Lacking solid execution, 3) Lacking any sort of emotional evocation / etc.
<DShepherd> troy_s, interesting..
<troy_s> DShepherd: and all of the byproducts... monochromatic tedium, and on and on.  Rather like Ubuntu's Feisty.
<troy_s> (And previous incarnations)
<DanaG> You can also compare SuSE 10.3's ugly blandness to 10.2, 10.1, 10.0, and even 9.3 and 9.2
<DanaG> Each was less "distinctive" than the previous.
<DanaG> http://www.ffnn.nl/pages/gallery/startup-services76.php -- from 9.3 version; shows how their KDE splash matches their bootsplash.
<troy_s> DanaG: Amen!
<troy_s> DanaG: The obvious 'oops' was letting Diana Fong go from Fedora.  SUSEs problems are systemic.
<troy_s> DanaG: I suppose ultimately it is this strange 'old school' FOSS attitude of sticking with this uber-functionality based approach.
<troy_s> DanaG: The real-world problem with that is that while it might work great for those zealots of the Swiss Style, computers aren't appliances.
<troy_s> DanaG: They are living spaces where people work, live, communicate, share, be emotional, and so on.
<DanaG> http://www.tuxmachines.org/gallery/main.php -- useful reference.
<DanaG> Too bad so few sites get screenshots of bootsplash or GDM themes.
<troy_s> DanaG: More difficult perhaps as not all of them are run in a virtual machine (regarding bootsplashes)
<DanaG> Aah.
<DanaG> I do still kind of wish Ubuntu would use fbsplash, so we could have styled console backgrounds.
<DanaG> Usplash can actually still run on top of it.
<troy_s> DanaG: Things will happen eventually.  The problem is that Ubuntu is still quite small in terms of dev team (something like 70 (?) versus 2000 Red Hats)
<_MMA_> Usplash needs to be scrapped. I've heard it a couple of times at UDS. Either that or overhauled. It's severely limited in resolution and color depth.
<savvas> now *this* is a map :P http://en.opensuse.org/Image:OS11.0beta3-live-inst3.png
<DanaG> Oh yeah, it's weird: I had thought that the changing wallpaper thing was causing periodic flickering on my display... then I finally realized it's actually my display itself.
<troy_s> LOL
<DanaG> Got day-night cycle?  "Ah! My Goddess Ending 2 - Wing"
<DanaG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB70vGTigh0
<troy_s> Good christ I am going to be sick.
<DanaG> Huh?
<troy_s> That video.  I think I just had a seizure.
<DanaG> Why?
<DanaG> Granted, it was kind of random.
<DanaG> er, my linking to it was kind of randm.
<DanaG> random.
<_MMA_> DanaG: By my count its like the 3rd time. Something tells me you're a kid who wants attention. ;)
<savvas> um.. does anyone have an picture of goat footprints on the ground?
<DanaG> I do tend to forget what I've mentioned before.
<troy_s> savvas: Are you needing an authentic image or something to build off of?
<savvas> troy_s: not necessary to be authentic, but i need an ibex-like footprint, I got an idea for a wallpaper for the future release
<troy_s> savvas: Uh... let me find an animal anatomy reference from my lib... hold tight.
<savvas> great! :)
<troy_s> You want just a print or the hoof?
<savvas> both if you dont mind :)
<savvas> I'm having some trouble with the rear end of my "ibex" :p
<troy_s> savvas: Hrm... 1) I don't know if I can find a print, but it isn't a big deal.
<troy_s> savvas: 2) Do you want a study on hind quarters for that morph of beast?
<savvas> http://savvas.radevic.com/previews/ubuntu-ibex/ubuntu-ibex-0.2.png
<savvas> mm just the hoof then, troy_s
<DanaG> That reminds me oddly much of the HP "HDX Dragon" wallpaper -- it has a similar white band with logo, and a similar liney background.
<savvas> yes DanaG :P
<DanaG> And I know I've linked to it... so I won't repeat that link.
<troy_s> savvas: Hrm... that's odd... I seem to remember a book with a study on hooves... apparently I am remembering the wrong darn book.
<savvas> troy_s: anything to get me started :)
<savvas> I'm thinking of loosing the footprints and placing a huge ibex face instead
<savvas> but oh well.. i got a lot of time to work it through hehe
<savvas> troy_s: if you remember the book's name highlight me with it and with the author's name if you can, I have to run, thanks :)
<DanaG> OOh, second-edition Hardy Heron t-shirt.
<DanaG> Yay.
<troy_s> savvas: Just scanning.
<DanaG> I think that wallpaper would look better without the large text.
<_MMA_> And the blur.
<_MMA_> And different colors.
<_MMA_> And without the Ubuntu/Tux logo.
<troy_s> _MMA_: LOL
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<DanaG> "thorn" character rocks.
<o0Chris0o> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibex
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-16
<nothlit`core> kwwii: so who's coming? mma, neil patel, cimi, macslow?
<zniavre> hello / bonjour
<zniavre> im loooking to modify some pidgin font color > http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/4/5/16/f_Capture2m_f905efc.png
<troy_s> zniavre: oK.
<troy_s> zniavre: what's your question?
<troy_s> zniavre: You can locate most fonts in the GUI app for changing appearances.
<troy_s> zniavre: Try twiddling those values first and see if you can locate which one controls it.
<zniavre> in fact it's text[NORMAL]
<troy_s> zniavre: Ok, so what is your question then?
<zniavre> how to specify gtkrc rulme only for pidgin ?
<zniavre> rule*
<troy_s> zniavre: Hrm... I don't know if there is a way to do app specific customizations off the top of my head.
<zniavre> to make it visible the onmy way i found is to start it with another theme as firefox Ooo and wxwidget apps
<zniavre> only *
<troy_s> zniavre: Well technically you can override any class you wish
<andreasn> zniavre: someone in #gnome-art on gimpnet might be able to help you
<troy_s> zniavre: But the problem (well not really a problem) is that I don't believe you can override based on an App hook.
<zniavre> mm  ok  :-/
<troy_s> andreasn: Judging from his screenshot he is already in #gnome art ;)
<zniavre> yep
<andreasn> oh, apparently :)
<zniavre> i always feel as it's devs channel  i afraid to be stupid with my "worries"
<andreasn> nah, no need to worry about that in the gnome channels really
<zniavre> :-D
<troy_s> zniavre: I don't think there is going to be a way to customize the font itself
<troy_s> zniavre: But what you COULD do is check through Pidgin and see if there is a GCONF key to twiddle.
<troy_s> (not ideal, but you could at least get it to impact the way you want from a script or whatever)
<zniavre> ok brain storming ON
<DanaG> Oh yeah, Pidgin has a plugin to customize .gtkrc for itself independently from the rest of the desktop.
<Halliweel> sera
<kwwii> theoretically every app should be able to handle it's own gtkrc or?
<kwwii> I really wish the panel would do it right
<kwwii> anyway, time to run to the store
<kwwii> bbl
<thorwil> https://help.launchpad.net/logo/winning-entry
<troy_s> Yikes.  Damian's was far superior.
<troy_s> Or mravicole's for that matter.  Scary culture.
<nothlit> wow there are so many great ones and they choose something so stale
<nothlit> well, tells you those in charge like something 'strong' and 'predictable' aka more geometric shapes
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-17
<troy_s> nothlit: Amen.
<troy_s> nothlit: It is the curse of style-less design.  I thought mravicole's was very stylish as a couple of others.
<troy_s> nothlit: The old 'utility over style' 'function over form' to excess pattern.  At some point, people just might wake up and realize that style and aesthetics _are_ function.
<nothlit> ne1 going, make sure you bring your wacom, i have a collaborative paint app deployed ^^
<nothlit> i've only brought one spare
<kwwii> nothlit|UDS: I will have one with me
<kwwii> nothlit|UDS: perhaps I should bring two?
<nothlit|UDS> sure
<nothlit|UDS> i would bring more but the 9x12 is just wayy to large and my other small one is on loan
<kwwii> yeah, I think I will just bring the A5 version, the other one is too big
<kwwii> or b3, whatever the small one is
<nothlit|UDS> i also have a mindmap setup, http://nothlit.zapto.org/UDS
<kwwii> hrm, that does not seem to work on my machine
<kwwii> I take that back, it just took a long time to start
<kwwii> erm, what is that supposed to do? it shows some animated circles and that is all
<nothlit|UDS> you have to accept the cert
<nothlit|UDS> its collaborative mindmapper with chat supported per node
<thorwil> nand: hi. are you at UDS?
<nand> thorwil: hi. Not really, it's the FOSScamp first :)
<nothlit|UDS> kk, i gtg to the airport
<nand> thorwil: still no answer from the trademarks guys btw
<kwwii> lol, yeah, UDS doesn't start until Monday
<thorwil> nand: too bad. need to know it to decide on perspective
<nand> thorwil: if it's blocking you, then we can just go to the backup solution
<thorwil> nand: nah, i want to do that circle. i do not want to waste any effort, though :)
<nand> thorwil: okay, so let's wait a bit more :) I was clearly stated on the page that answer could take a few week due to "high traffic"
 * thorwil is biting his own ass for taking part in the launchpad logo competition
<nand> thorwil: yeah, I saw the results. You missed your chance to put your logos on every Ubuntu websites ;)
<savvas> eh.. life
<savvas> the logo is pretty good though
<ubuntuwestbengal> anybody here who can give me quality feedback on the wallpaper submission of mine?
<ubuntuwestbengal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Desktop_Background_Submissions
<ubuntuwestbengal> this is Parthsarathi Trivedi
<ubuntuwestbengal> anybody? please?
<ubuntuwestbengal> This is meant for the Intrepid cycle
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-05-18
<marcusrussi> is basic ideals going to be the intrepid theme?
<DanaG> Wow, Fedora sure does boot slowly.
<DanaG> Especially in a VM with only 256 megs of RAM.
<DanaG> OOps, wrong channel; totally irrelevant to here.
<DanaG> Tabs do that to me, sometimes.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-11
<SiDi> hi
<zniavre> goood morning SiDi
<SiDi> hey zniavre , long time no see
<zniavre> just im too shy to speak here but im always aroud
<zniavre> around *
<zniavre> :-[
<SiDi> heh
<dashua> SiDi: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/13883/screenshot_Po5iQP.png
<dashua> Think I got it.
<knome> dashua, the back/fw/up icons are quite contrasted
<dashua> Yeah, I'm dilomo has a lighter folder submitted which works much better with darker themes and I'm wondering if the same contrast would work on the navigations icons?
<SiDi> hiya dashua
<dashua> Heya
<SiDi> and knome :p
<knome> :P
<knome> SiDi, "again he's complaining about something", right? :P
<SiDi> me ? :O
<knome> me :P
<SiDi> oh you
<SiDi> yeh but we're used to it
<knome> haha
<knome> might be true
<SiDi> you criticize anything that doesnt have a vectorized mouse on it
 * SiDi hides.
<knome> khihi
<knome> true
<SiDi> btw knome, there is no xubuntu-community-themes package or such at the moment ?
<knome> nope
<knome> there is no community or developer community themes whatsoever
<knome> so no idea to create a package :P
<SiDi> kwwii: would it be feasible to include xfwm's for the community-themes in the current package, for xubuntu users ?
<knome> SiDi, but it's.... BROWN?
<SiDi> knome: oh dear ! :P
<SiDi> its not blue ! :P
<SiDi> We can add some blueish sexy themes to the package too, you know
<SiDi> my current theme is grey and orange :P
<kwwii> SiDi: it would probably need to be in another seperate package I guess
<kwwii> ahhh...wait
<kwwii> you said in the community themes package
<knome> i know, but really, brown doesn't really fit into the jaunty artwork we have
<kwwii> yes, we could add some
<SiDi> kwwii: the problem of that is that it would make duplicates since we'd have the same gtk themes
<SiDi> knome: i totally agree it doesnt fit with the default gdm and background :) but i like changing everything from times to times
<kwwii> the community themes package should be something that the community leads ;)
<dashua> SiDi: I noticed with Alvaro you can change the bg_selected color and most colors seems to work.
<knome> SiDi, sure :P
<SiDi> kwwii: well, i dont know whot leads it so i just ask you :)
<dashua> seem*
<kwwii> well, I made the package and the idea so I guess I am the person to ask :p
<SiDi> dashua: bg_selected is which one ? the light orange ?
<SiDi> isnt that fg_selected ? :P
<SiDi> kwwii: then i ask you :p i'll need to double check every xfwm for the current themes anyways, so it'll be for later, but i'll do it for sure :)
<kwwii> cool, once you have something together let me know
<kwwii> it might be good to discuss this stuff on the list as well
<kwwii> perhaps others have idea, or want to help
<dashua> SiDi: selected_bg_color:#FCAF3E Try blue or purple.  It works
<dashua> Yeah, the orange
<SiDi> Give me a sexy blue # then :P
<dashua> #729FCF
<SiDi> yay :D
<thorwil> kwwii, Ivanka's tune scares me! ;)  oh, and it's mp3! schlimm schlimm schlimm
<kwwii> thorwil: :)
<kwwii> thorwil: mp3 ist doch nicht sooo schlimm
<SiDi> Yay, free time \o/
<thorwil> \o/\o/
<SiDi> oh, i actually should be doing maths
<thorwil> SiDi, you should be doing maths!
<SiDi> but my brain refuses
<SiDi> it doesnt work anymore
<thorwil> do it without!
<SiDi> It's harder
<SiDi> software rendering lags for arithmeticae
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-12
<zafucg> Hi everybody
<zafucg> i would like joint to Artwork ubuntu. Howto do? I have nice experience in graphic and art
<SiDi> zafucg: by contributing to the current projects
<SiDi> ie. themes/backgrounds for karmic, or the Breathe icon theme
<SiDi> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/
 * savvas exhales for the breathe icon theme :p
 * SiDi eats strawberries.
<savvas> for the breathe icon theme? hehe
<SiDi> for myself :o
<SiDi> Breathe doesn't need strawberries :p
<savvas> I call the "public bigger share" license upon you and steal all your strawberries!
<savvas> now that would be a cool license lol
<SiDi> you can if you want
<SiDi> as long as you sew my stomach back
<savvas> :p
<savvas> don't forget I'm studying medicine :)
 * SiDi hides with the remaining strawberries.
<kwwii> thorwil, anyone: any ideas on how best to collect wallpapers for the extra wallpaper package? I am guessing that the wiki would get to messy and bogged down
<kwwii> I was thinking about just having an upload page, then let the art council (or whatever we call it) decide
<thorwil> kwwii, nah, wiki should be ok.
<thorwil> kwwii, just might to have sections and "cleaning" rounds, where "maybe" is set apart from "no"
<kwwii> hrm...I'm going to sleep on this decision, kinda important to get right the first time
<kwwii> duh, now I read your email pointing to the wiki page :p
<thorwil> what the heck is Mads doing that Evolution doesn't put his replies into threads
 * thorwil -> coffee
 * thorwil looks at https://ubuntuone.com/
<zniavre> it's quite nice idea
<thorwil> have to see if it beats dropbox
<thorwil> kwwii, that ubuntu one wordmark ... same font but tighter kerning for "one"?
<thorwil> kwwii, http://pic.piccdrop.com/i/3/1242147398.png
<andreasn> "...share folders with other human beings"
<andreasn> http://www.flickr.com/photos/andreasnilsson/3524368355/
<thorwil> heh
 * thorwil -> dinner
<SiDi> have a nice meal then
<thorwil> SiDi, i had, thanks :)
<SiDi> ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-13
<andreasn> p
<thorwil> hi. what a great day. just lost my job. well, in 4 weeks, to be exact
<andreasn> thorwil, ouch, sorry to hear that
<andreasn> where do you work?
<thorwil> andreasn, a call center not worth mentioning
<andreasn> do you do any graphics design freelancing?
<thorwil> andreasn, no, last time it looked like i might, the client went away
<andreasn> I get requests for various things from time to time from various people. I don't have the time or interest to do them myself
<kwwii> thorwil: ouch, sorry to hear that
<andreasn> and the gnome designers I used to forward them too are now fulltime employees or super-busy with their current freelance missions
<andreasn> so if you're interested, perhaps I can recommend you next time something comes up
<thorwil> andreasn, sure i am interested. always depends on the details, of course. thanks for the offer :)
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/theme2_carbon.png ...any ideas for improvement?
<thorwil> kwwii, i'd flip the scrollbar, because as is it looks like the slider belongs to the right edge, not the actual scrollable area
<kwwii> thorwil: hrm good idea...it was supposed to look like it comes out of the left part and extends above and into the window...that clearly didn't get through :p
<andreasn> one thing I liked about the XP and OSX scollbars are that they seemed to be made out of the same material as the area that they are scrolling
<andreasn> http://s3.amazonaws.com/satisfaction-production/s3_images/17670/flock-drafts_inline.jpg
<andreasn> http://img.skitch.com/20090323-qewg1fxje8tqmj9qj4d61mjj2b.jpg
<andreasn> I'm not saying you should do this, but it might be worth considering
<andreasn> in general, most GTK+ apps seems to threat the scrolling area as a completely different control than the window with padding and lines between it
<thorwil> yeah, a mistake, i think
<SiDi> I personnally find the osx ones ugly
<andreasn> so the effect might be hard to achieve without a bunch of glade editing and possibly some changes to GTK+ itself
<kwwii> well, if we would switch to blue everything would be much easier
<andreasn> SiDi, ugly or beautiful, they get some of the physicalish design stuff right
<andreasn> thorwil, I recall mpt was unhappy about that behavior as well, so maybe we should grab a GTK+ developer and look into how we can fix that (and how much work it would be etc.)
<thorwil> andreasn, sure. i would add the bigger issue of hard-coded spacing between widgets. that just belongs to theming, especially with increasingly diverse devices
<andreasn> I'm not sure how that is related. Shouldn't the space always be zero? Anyway, I think people are looking into the other issue already
<andreasn> David Zeuten and David Madely (?)
<thorwil> andreasn, well, having a gap or not having a gap next to scrollbars is related to spacing
<andreasn> you mean if some themes want to do it wrong? :)
<andreasn> hm, yeah, sure
<thorwil> heh, sure. the more wrong and terrible ugly themes can be, the better, as it likely also means there's space for good stuf :)
<kwwii> so, once again...http://sinecera.de/theme2_carbon2.png
<zniavre> the rebirth of ubuntulooks ?
<kwwii> zniavre: nope, just some stuff i was playing with
<kwwii> thorwil: can you take a look at the wallpaper brief? I think it is ready but maybe you can find something to improve: http://sinecera.de/karmic_wallpaper_notfinal.pdf
<SiDi> Canonical should recruit thorwil imo :]
<thorwil> was busy, garden work
<thorwil> kwwii, reads very familiar ;)
<thorwil> kwwii, Implementation page could be a good place to point to the SVG and XCF templates
<thorwil> kwwii, i'd drop the Color Palette page. it's so ingrained by now, many will conform, anyway. but you should embiggen the chance of pleasant surprises
<thorwil> kwwii, but if you keep it, consider placing the palette image to fit with the "Use warm colors ..." paragraph from the previous page
<thorwil> kwwii, don't you think the slogans should be in the brief?
 * thorwil -> dinner
<thorwil> back
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-14
<kwwii> thorwil: I think it would be good to include them but I don't think we are anywhere near them being ready
<thorwil> kwwii, ooh, that was refering to the slogans/adjectives now?
<kwwii> the slogans are really for the extra wallpaper competition not for the default wallpaper brief but I do see the point in including them
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, just reading back - you always get an answer from me :)
<kwwii> even if it is days lalter
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> i'm not sure default and extra need to be separated. could be one large pool. but if you do want it apart, it should happen really soon
 * thorwil -> garden work
<kwwii> right, I think we can have them all in one pool, but have seperate briefs for them...ie the default look has a specific brief and the others don't
<kwwii> it makes it easy to allow for good work which is intended as default to land in the extra package when it doesn't follow the brief
<thorwil> kwwii, how to deal with that solaris manzur guys? i worry that that style of posting can be contagious
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, annoying
<kwwii> I will give him one more chance to figure out what I am trying to say
<thorwil> kwwii, chance sure, but you don't try to say, you do say ;)
<thorwil> manzur on my blog, too: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2009/05/13/ubuntu-one/#comment-2169
<thorwil> google translates that as: good writing to tell you that I think the more simple the better, I personally I like things that look professional, because impact
<thorwil> anyone good enough with spanish to tell me better?
<ricaxe> hi
<ricaxe> anyone here ??
<kwwii> yes
<kwwii> you are here
<kwwii> that was somewhat of a rhetorical question, or?
<kwwii> ricaxe: something the ask, have you?
<ricaxexl> sorry the English i am Portuguese...
<ricaxexl> i am wondering if i can integrate the theme of ARTwork ubuntu
<ricaxexl> ?
<ricaxexl> sorry the waiting time ...
<kwwii> ricaxe: no worries, some of my best friends are from portugal
<kwwii> just don't expect me to understand your language...half of what you write is not even pronounced!
<kwwii> explain to me what you want I maybe I can help
<ricaxexl> you are talking about my english ?? :D
<kwwii> no worries, mine is as bad as yours ;)
<ricaxexl> i dont have any problem ...
<kwwii> one of my good friends is porteguese *and* dysexlic
<kwwii> so you should see what he writes :p
<kwwii> anyway...what is up? how can I help?
<kwwii> nothing to do with you, sorry
<ricaxexl> the only problem is that i love ubuntu and i want help some way to develop ..
<kwwii> just a funny story about a good friend
<ricaxexl> i am dysexlic to ...
<ricaxexl> :D
<kwwii> so what can you do well?
<ricaxexl> very funy
<kwwii> lol, funny that
<kwwii> no worries, that doesn't change anything
<kwwii> it just makes it all the more human
<kwwii> which is the point
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-15
<kwwii> Ok, we are going with the background brief as is: http://sinecera.de/karmic_background_brief.pdf
<kwwii> I wonder where we be a good place to put it :)
<thorwil> kwwii, attach it to the Backgrounds page?
<thorwil> nm, i see it
 * thorwil -> coffee
<kwwii> yeah, coffee sounds good
<kwwii> I just sent an email as well
<kwwii> I wonder if that page isn't going to be too long
 * SiDi is happy.
<SiDi> Hello people :]
 * kwwii wants some of whatever it is that SiDi is taking
<SiDi> i'm taking coffee
<SiDi> out of a super course about databases physical organisation
<SiDi> the simple fact is quitting such a course makes you euphoric for a good week
<kwwii> lol, nice
<kwwii> and I thought it was just friday ;)
<SiDi> oh btw for the wallpapers set
<SiDi> should we provide row photos or can we photoshop (oops, meant gimp) them a little ?
<thorwil> SiDi, both
<thorwil> full resolution shots, untouched, plus your own editing, ideally
<SiDi> alright
<kwwii> SiDi: anything goes...only taste and intention should be your limits :)
<SiDi> if i manage to find a good camera i'll take shots of places nearby :)
<SiDi> also when you're at UDS, you'll have some photos to take ;)
<SiDi> if you can manage to be allowed to use a photo of the front of the sagrada familia, you'll have twice more users for 9.10 \o/
<kwwii> hehe, I am hoping to take saturday before UDS to shoot photos
<SiDi> before ? damn i wont be there :p
<SiDi> i'll be there only from thursday x_x damn exams
<SiDi> but i'll stay till ~10 of june
<SiDi> try the parc guell too
<SiDi> but on monday or tuesday mornings so there's not too much crowd
<kwwii> hehe sounds like you know your way around :)
<SiDi> i go there every year :p
<SiDi> got family there
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/buttons.png <--which is better?
<thorwil> kwwii, 2nd column button
<SiDi> oh btw kwwii do you mind sending me the desktop icon you had on this carbone theme wallpaper you've shown us ?
 * SiDi votes second too
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/14378/screenshot_o3NfgE.png
<dashua> ?
<dashua> Tried adding some of the palettes from the brief for the theme
<SiDi> imo the WM is too blur, and the menu bars too.
<kwwii> SiDi: not sure which one you mean
<kwwii> thorwil, SiDi: those are my favorites too...I'll work up a theme with 'em
<SiDi> kwwii: remember this screenshot you showed us about the carbon theme ? The icon theme had a damn sexy nautilus desktop icon !
<dashua> Ok, too blurry?
<kwwii> SiDi: hrm, I will send you the svg and then get it from there
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/theme2a_carbon.svg
<kwwii> when it is done uploading
<SiDi> dashua: yeh. i don't have much love for gradients anyways :d
<dashua> Ah, alright :)
<SiDi> takes time to load :D
<SiDi> kwwii: its that desktop icon :P
<kwwii> SiDi: andreasn made that, not I :)
<SiDi> okey :)
<SiDi> andreasn: you rocks :P
<andreasn> what did I do?
<andreasn> sorry, I didn't follow the discussion
<SiDi> the desktop icon in the above svg image :P
<kwwii> you made something pretty, AGAIN!
<andreasn> oh, that one
<SiDi> Does anyone mind making me a non-compressed screenshot of the metacity of New Wave please ?
<SiDi> if you know where i can find the gimp/inkscape source i'll hug you, too :]
<thorwil> SiDi, ask Anton Kerezov (dilomo)? can give you his address if you don't have it
<SiDi> That'd be cool :)
 * thorwil PMs
<SiDi> http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7748/xfwmnewwave.png
<SiDi> thoughts ?
<SiDi> it's just a port, but now its done at least :p
<knome> personally don't like that kind of themes, but it doesn't look bad.
<SiDi> i don't like new wave much either, but its in the community-themes :p and it's popular
<knome> yes, exactly. that's why it's important.
<SiDi> kwwii: ping :]
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-16
<kwwii> SiDi: pong
<kwwii> the corners are a bit hard on hte buttons
<kwwii> but otherwise it looks similar
<kwwii> work on the buttons
<SiDi> its quite hard actually
<SiDi> i resized them via gimp
<kwwii> I am going to bed in 5 minutes
<kwwii> yeah, it is a bitch
<kwwii> I agree
<SiDi> the original ones are twice bigger, but the author uses metacity's resizing
 * knome starts counting
<SiDi> and xfwm doesnt support this :P
<kwwii> but learning that will make things different for you
<SiDi> if you know any better tool for resizing i'm up for it :p
<kwwii> it is a matter of trade-offs
<kwwii> and you need to get it right to make things work as best as they can
<kwwii> so good luck
 * SiDi didnt understand _at all_ :P
<kwwii> keep trying
<kwwii> it takes time
<kwwii> the close button it good
<SiDi> its because it was bigger :p
<kwwii> but the ratio on the others is a bit too harsh
<kwwii> yeah, exactl
<kwwii> y
<SiDi> i'll resize with photoshop :]
<knome> lol
<kwwii> so how do you fake that on the others?
<SiDi> its just a 50% resize
<kwwii> make the dark parts lighter
<knome> kwwii, you have two minutes left
<SiDi> on _all_ the buttons
<knome> ;]
<SiDi> i took the metacity files as they were actually
<SiDi> nothing tweaked
<meoblast001> hi
<kwwii> and make extra light grey squares for the rounded corners
<SiDi> (well, i added a window bg because xfwm doesnt support transparent bgs and i resized)
<meoblast001> by any chance is this the place for ubuntu audio as well as art?
<kwwii> if you can draw a line you can draw a square
<SiDi> kwwii: i dont think xfwm supports alpha transparency
<kwwii> meoblast001: yes, indeed
<meoblast001> ok
<kwwii> but I am passing out soon
<SiDi> meoblast001: no its not :P
<SiDi> kwwii: go bed, you seem to needa rest ! :P
<kwwii> and I am one of the few who is interested in it :p
<meoblast001> one of my biggest issues with Ubuntu is that i feel the themes and sounds don't change enough
<meoblast001> i think there needs to be a consistant change
<kwwii> knome is keeping track of how much time I have left, no worries :)
<SiDi> hahah :D I agree the theme doesnt change enough :D
<SiDi> knome: plug his pc off :P
<knome> the best way to change that is to start working on it yourself
<meoblast001> maybe, every LTS release has a heavily modified GDM, GTK theme, and sound scheme along with the regular background change
<knome> kwwii, TIME!
<kwwii> meoblast001: I agree that there should be a change, but I think that we need to be very carefull when changing things
<meoblast001> i can probably make new sounds
<kwwii> and with that, I will piss off
<meoblast001> i used to use FL Studio and i was making sounds like crazy
<kwwii> meoblast001: put them on the wiki somewhere, or send me an email
<SiDi> kwwii: i cant make the borders any better btw P
<knome> meoblast001, like shouting "mooo" at the microphone? i'd definitely want that sound scheme.
<meoblast001> thing is, only FL 7 works in WINE, and Image-Line doesn't offer FL7 anymore
<knome> kwwii, you're overtime
<SiDi> kwwii: you're sleeping btw
<knome> kwwii, go to sleep :]
<knome> SiDi, actually he talked about *going to bed* in 5
<knome> not actually sleeping
<knome> and he might have a laptop..
<meoblast001> i really wish Ubuntu would change colors, but i guess orange is the de facto standard
<meoblast001> de facto standard for Ubuntu colors
<meoblast001> i'd love a video like this for ubuntu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hEZZVYXFsA
<knome> i'd change the logo at least
<knome> ;]
<knome> personally i think it's a bit boring
<knome> too long and not really inspirating music
<SiDi> i think my bandwidth sucks too much to watch a video
<knome> and it seems to show off the new hardware more than vista
<knome> like "wow, you can have a mouseless pc"
<meoblast001> no... not the hardware
<meoblast001> that's what i don't like about the video
<meoblast001> i think there needs to be a video like that for Ubuntu that shows off Ubuntu's features
<knome> offtopic: i hate people with this kind of attitude: "ya i know YouTube as been riding my ass about copyright because its most of what i post lol"
<knome> "lol noob there is reason for copyrights lol?"
<meoblast001> i agree with RMS that the copyright length needs to be shortened to 10 years
<knome> that's a different thing
<meoblast001> it's hard to make large profits on direct sales of a work after 3 years anyway
<knome> i'm not saying everything even should have the copyright as we know it now
<knome> but that attitude just irritates me
<meoblast001> i thought up a cool idea that, if i ever made my own distro, i would put it in that, but i think it'd be best to submit it to branstorm for ubuntu
<meoblast001> something in the installer that dumps lshw into a file
<meoblast001> and then checks it's data against a good/bad list of hardware
<meoblast001> and says whether A) a device is fully compatible with Ubuntu B) proprietary drivers will be needed or C) not compatible at all
<knome> not a bad idea at all
<knome> i'm bleeding.
<meoblast001> knome: ha
<meoblast001> get a bandage
<knome> i have
<meoblast001> knome: i think the idea would be easy to implement
<meoblast001> knome: i'm not even a great programmer and i think i could do that
<knome> the only thing needed would be a hw list
<knome> and an internet connection to connect to it
<meoblast001> yes.... and that could be created with user input
<meoblast001> knome: it would be necessary that a local list exist too
<knome> yes
<meoblast001> but it should ask the user whether he/she wants to use the local or get it from online
<knome> but what if the user has no internet devices that are supported?
<knome> nope, should not ask.
<meoblast001> knome: i wanted, at one time, to make a distro that is as compatible as Debian but easy to use as Ubuntu
<knome> use internet if possible
<meoblast001> i half way gave up on that :(
<knome> but if not, then use local copy
<meoblast001> knome: yes
<knome> mmm... i like blood
<knome> it's the third time this week when my nose bleeds
<knome> second time today
<meoblast001> knome: i cut myself up when i built my mom her computer
<knome> ouch
<meoblast001> i get the feeling she's starting to want Windows
<knome> failure
<knome> lol
<meoblast001> our camera doesn't work on it
<meoblast001> i wanted to file a bug tonight
<meoblast001> my dad was ticked at me when i installed it
<meoblast001> for some reason, magically, only I have completely Ubuntu compatible hardware
<meoblast001> well.. my mom's is too because i made sure of it
 * meoblast001 hates Broadcom
<knome> hah
<meoblast001> i think Nouveau is an amazing project
<meoblast001> i hate nVidia drivers
<meoblast001> who do they think they are.... trying to tie chains to people looking for freedom
<knome> ;)
<SiDi> meoblast001: it wouldnt be that easy
<meoblast001> for nVidia to make theirs free?
<knome> atm i have no problems with even propietary drivers if they work.
<meoblast001> they could make two drivers
<SiDi> on each kernel / hal / acpi update you'd have to check the WHOLE list of hardware
<SiDi> there'd be errors and false positives
<meoblast001> sure, the proprietary drivers would perform better
<meoblast001> because S3TC is a patented, proprietary piece of software
<meoblast001> but screw it... i'd rather have free drivers than S3TC
<meoblast001> we need libsfreetc
<meoblast001> :P
<SiDi> meoblast001: who do nvidia think they are ? The best GPU manufacturers around maybe ? </troll>
<SiDi> They dont release drivers for the sake of industrial secret, that's more than understandable
<meoblast001> SiDi: they are the best GPU hardware manufacturers
<meoblast001> on the software side, no
<SiDi> and ati only releases specs, not full drivers either
<meoblast001> secrets destroy inovation
<meoblast001> how are people to inovate if we all hide things from each other to maximize profits
<SiDi> and even if their drivers wont support kms/gallium3D for a while, they get the best performances benchmarks
<SiDi> that's another debate :)
<meoblast001> i don't care about performance benchmarks
<meoblast001> i care about my freedoms
<SiDi> if they release their knowledge to their opponents, they lose their technological advance
 * meoblast001 actually has #gnu on his autojoin list
<SiDi> and end up as SiS or similar companies
<meoblast001> SiDi: real "work" is releasing your information, and always trying to be better
<SiDi> use nouveau then :]
<meoblast001> ok.. sure.. they can copy off you, but in order to stay advanced, you should make something new up
<meoblast001> always trying to get better and better
<meoblast001> why does Windows suck? because they don't need to make it better because they know no one's going to use it
<meoblast001> false inovation at work right there
<meoblast001> s/no one's going to use it/no one's going to stop using it
<SiDi> i dont think windows / nvidia is the most relevant comparison :p
<meoblast001> free software promotes inovation
<meoblast001> as long as people keep trying to work (oh no... that's a problem in the world today), no profits will decrease
 * knome goes to bed
<knome> good night.
<meoblast001> night knome
<SiDi> kwwii: http://www.opendesktop.org/content/show.php?content=104935 cleaner on second screen ?
<kwwii> SiDi: yes, much better
<SiDi> good :p
<SiDi> well, the rest is up to you
<SiDi> as soon as i finished uni i'll grab the whole list of community-themes and try to get proper xfwms for all of these
<xanax`> hello
<xanax`> anyone knows what happened to the Face-browser GDM project ?
<thorwil> xanax`, afaik, it's still on the table, but inclusion has been postponed several times. there might be technical difficulties and the developer is busy with other stuff
<thorwil> like all that notification stuff
<kwwii> the new gdm browser relies on us using the gdm2 code
<kwwii> which is still missing some features we need
<kwwii> the current plan is try and see what we can get done for karmic
<kwwii> and definitely have it by +1
<xanax`> ok, thank you thorwil.
<xanax`> (and kwwii)
<xanax`> :-)
<xanax`> congratulations to authors of Dust and New Wave themes
<xanax`> they both look very professional
<SiDi> Heh
<SiDi> dashua: ^
 * zniavre is away: OccupÃ©
<Viper550> I know this is an odd place to ask, even though it involves artwork, but anyone wish to help with artwork for a bowling related project?
<xanax`> what's the website url ?
<Viper550> well, I'm gonna be setting it up on launchpad
<Viper550> basically, linux based scoring system for bowling
<dashua> SiDi: Sup mate?
<SiDi> fine, you ?
<SiDi> you had a fan around there dashua but not sure if hes still logged in :p
<dashua> Ah nice, building a deck.  Just stopped by for lunch.
<dashua> What is that Carbon theme?  An idea for Karmic?
<SiDi> its a secret project from kwwii :P
<dashua> Sweet.
<dashua> My next venture is to base a theme somewhat on the Jaunty GDM, start around 310000 for the palette.
<dashua> That color looks really nice on glossy screens
<dashua> Dark purplish brown
<SiDi> red is sexy yeh
<SiDi> but not suitable for the eyes on a long time length :P
<dashua> Yeah, Gilouche style base with dark brown seems to be very easy on mine.
<dashua> That pretty much where Hanso is now with darker menus
<dashua> That's*
<dashua> Other than that I think my work is done as we wait for GNOME 3
 * SiDi doesn't wait much for gnome 3 :D
<SiDi> if you feel inspired, help knome to get a super sexy blue theme :p
<dashua> Yeah, Alvaro could head in that direction for a darker / bluish theme
<SiDi> darker ?
<SiDi> Your screen must be damn light dashua, cause its already very dark :P
<dashua> Ha, no if he wanted a darker theme.  (Yes, that is dark) ;)
<dashua> Cool, Banshee trunk works with notify-osd now without a patch.
<dashua> I have noticed a lot more brown based themes lately.
<dashua> As we moved from brown, the world begins to embrace it =/
<SiDi> yeh true
<dashua> move away*
<SiDi> i've been quite surprised to see brown become an usual color for themes, i didnt believe it'd ever happen
<Viper550> cause I wanna kill off this plague infesting scoring monitors across my city http://lh3.ggpht.com/_yApw4gLxzGU/SSqy_Ro3vkI/AAAAAAAAHxc/A55iGm53f7w/s800/bowling-score.jpg
<dashua> Yeah, actually my favorite base if you couldn't tell
<Viper550> though the bg isn't always pink, it usually starts off blue
<dashua> Viper550: Not sure I can help you with bowling software.
<dashua> SiDi: Back to work, ttyl
<SiDi> see you dashua
<SiDi> good luck !
<dashua> Thx :)
<Viper550> but, http://bowlingtrophy.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/bowling059.jpg this is what I get stuck with at my home lanes (different color scheme, but still)
<knome> nice colors
<SiDi> thanks :p theme is from dashua
<knome> lol, the one on bowlingtrophy? :D
<SiDi> no, not that thing at all :D
<SiDi> http://www.ubuntu-art.org/content/show.php/Alvaro?content=104145 & http://xfce-look.org/content/show.php/Alvaro+XFWM+theme?content=104246
<knome> right :P
<knome> as i said earlier, it is not bad, but has some areas which need improvement
<SiDi> well, feel free to hack it, knome ;)
<SiDi> i'm not good with editing themes
<knome> i'd rather get dashua hacking it so we could include the default in xubuntu thus not needing to maintain ;P
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-05-17
<Viper550> dashua, well, you can help with artwork
<SiDi> Don't steal my dashua ! :O
<SiDi> Night people
<Viper550> heck did some tango-esque bowling pin graphics
<Viper550> and http://bayimg.com/image/fapnkaabl.jpg
<Viper550> hey
<SiDi> hello
<SiDi> anyone here working on breathe ?
<dashua> Dell Mini 9 shipped FINALLY. w00t.
<dashua> They must have been swamped with orders.
<SiDi> lol dashua :d
<SiDi> enjoy
<SiDi> (thats when u're happy to have negociated D+1 support)
<dashua> Yeah, it worked.
<dashua> I have my NBR USB loaded and ready to go.
<dashua> or UNR whatever the abbreviation is.
<SiDi> unr :p
<SiDi> try xubuntu too ! :D
<dashua> I will.
<dashua> SiDi: Are you using Breathe from trunk?
<dashua> Those navigation icons were fixed.
<SiDi> not sure
<SiDi> i think im on the repo
<SiDi> oh damn
<SiDi> i again sent an useless mail
<dashua> I'll send you the new .deb
<SiDi> alright, cheers :p
<dashua> Check your gmail :)
<SiDi> Thanks
<dashua> Np
<SiDi> yummie, folder icons are cleaner
<dashua> Yeah
<zniavre> i believed first screen shot as new feature
<zniavre> it looks "nice"
<zniavre> oops sorry
<SiDi> hello zniavre ;)
<zniavre> http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/6182/leftrightj.png
<zniavre> salut SiDi
<zniavre> i was reading your mail
<SiDi> heh
<SiDi> I personally don't like having a big left arrow everywhere
<SiDi> even if in firefox it doesnt look bad
<zniavre> a guy made a mockup with nautilus like that
<zniavre> i would like to try if it's "usable"
<SiDi> mockups often remain at the state of a nice gimp collage unfortunately :)
<zniavre> remain > harraps mode ON
<zniavre> yes ! taht s true
<zniavre> th*
<zniavre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Ubuntu_8.10_Theme_-_Art_Team?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=SampleNautilus.png
<zniavre> was quite nice no?
<SiDi> yeh :)
<Viper550> yep
<SiDi> thats the main problem of stuff such as gtk/qt, compared to windows's gui
<Viper550> kinda reminds me of firefox
<SiDi> since we want modulable things, we can't hardcode such stuff everywhere as they do
<SiDi> but we can theme our GUIs :)
 * SiDi goes back to his desperate project report..
<Viper550> I'm kinda designing a UI for something http://bayimg.com/image/fapnkaabl.jpg
<Viper550> hey
<Viper550> andreasn, been kinda designing a UI for a project
<andreasn> hi Viper550
<Viper550> http://bayimg.com/image/fapnkaabl.jpg
<andreasn> what is it for?
<Viper550> https://launchpad.net/kba
<Viper550> tis a mockup
<andreasn> is it to be used in those monitoes you see in the bowling lane?
<andreasn> monitors
<thorwil> Viper550, why do you only use such a small part of the screen?
<Viper550> andreasn, yeah. thorwil, this is only one player
<thorwil> Viper550, needs more space between the 2 lines in the buttons
<andreasn> Viper550, wow, cool challenge
<thorwil> Viper550, "TOTAL" should line up with the "75"
<Viper550> I just arranged it like this because I get sick and tired of getting my name reduced to 1 or 3 letters.
<andreasn> how many players can there be in total?
<Viper550> Maybe 6 per lane, but if we scale it correctly it could fit 12
<thorwil> Viper550, you could gain  a lot my not sticking boxes into boxes. rely on whitespace for separation and maybe lines if really needed
<Viper550> okay, let's see how my rivals do it. qubicaamf... http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ir1CmpeK8ag/SDDHhPAU3jI/AAAAAAAAAGs/cHaUJ0w0o3U/s400/BowlingScore.JPG
<Viper550> their's has this stupid thing that literally STRETCHES the active bowler name in a very horrid looking look
<Viper550> they can scale their rows, I saw screenshot of it with 12 players loaded in.
<Viper550> http://www.kwib.de/highscore.gif the newer Brunswick Vector...is
<thorwil> cool, looks 20 years old
<Viper550> thorwil, http://lh3.ggpht.com/_yPD_ZiWcIDY/SIK5uU_PRMI/AAAAAAAAA7A/3NOtJd4zdtA/Bowling+Score.JPG and this is something I see alot in my town. two alleys in my area has this older AMF AccuScore
<Viper550> and vector to me only looks about maybe 3 years :P
<Viper550> though despite its dos-ish look, that one does has this cute effect for changing players. the highlighted row kinda drains its highlight, then fills in on the new player
<thorwil> Viper550, anyway, i guess that you have to take crappy displays and bad viewing conditions into account. that means you should use minimal graphics
<Viper550> But I don't wanna be too minimal
<Viper550> let me see if I can pull up this YouTube video I saw with this Amiga-based one I have bowled on before
<Viper550> and someone suggested I go for that HP Mi look
<andreasn> thorwil, yeah, I think gradients are tricky on crappy displays like CRT TV's
<Viper550> so, how should we go about this?
<Viper550> note in 5-pin, you throw 3 balls
<Viper550> andreasn, they are using LCD more now. Place I went to few weeks ago had HDTV's (though I swear it was probably an upconverted feed)
<Viper550> so, got any influence I could use?
<Viper550> I am thinking of either using a Tango style or Breathe in the manager UI
<andreasn> the manager UI is a totally different UI to use on regular desktop machines?
<Viper550> andreasn, yeah,
<Viper550> http://www.qubicaamf.com.ro/images/boss_schermate_2big.jpg this is what qubica's looks like, though we may try to stray towards Gnome HIG maybe
<andreasn> wow, that looks,um, interesting
<Viper550> it runs off Windows...
<andreasn> touch screen UI?
<Viper550> I think
<andreasn> if you can make the buttons bigger at the expense of loosing some of the icons, I think you should do that
<andreasn> the icons in that UI don't really convey anything special and forces the text to remain small
<SiDi> though, icons are very practical for spotting an element on a crowded screen
<SiDi> but its true on this UI they're useless
<Viper550> and its a smaller screenshot
<andreasn> well, the icons makes the screen crowded in themselves
<Viper550> ours, will probably not have "as many" functions as Conqueror
<Viper550> it'll probably have lane manager, league squad thing, setup, etc
<Viper550> maybe an evolution-like design?
<Viper550> as I read through the HIG
<thorwil> kwwii, heh, looks what silly map the fedora guys use: http://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/a/a2/Tours_Fedora11_001_Install_Timezone.png ;)
<Viper550> thorwil, http://bayimg.com/image/hapapaabm.jpg
<Viper550> improved a bit
<thorwil> Viper550, make sure the numbers stand out. they shouldn't get in a fight with the edges
<Viper550> I have to fit up to 3 digits in that total column
<knome> Viper550, sure, but a bowling counter must be easily readable
<Viper550> reduce the brightness of those borders?
<knome> maybe add a bit more padding
<Viper550> between score cards?
<knome> between the numbers and the borders
<Viper550> and should that status panel be at the top or bottom?
<knome> i'm not sure. bottom looks good
<Viper550> thorwil, wondering what kind of bowling I've specifically designed this for? (non-free plugin requiring site ahead)
<Viper550> Anyway, I found out from email corrospondence, the old manager that the previous Joystick Scoring system used, was coded with Borland C++
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-17
<thorwil> does this stream work for anyone? http://ubuntudevelopers.blip.tv/file/3621745/
<thorwil> the other videos where all flash, but this embeds totem, which doesn't work here
<thorwil> download and then mplayer does the trick
<thorwil> iainfarrell: good morning! i'm still interested in the making beautiful fonts slides, especially as the screen is outside the camera view on the video :}
<iainfarrell> Hi thorwil
<iainfarrell> I'll ask Bruno to share his slideware
<thorwil> cool, ty
<thorwil> vish: you will create a new ubuntu women logo? consider to just turn the ubuntu circle into a venus symbol
<vish> thorwil: hey! :D
<vish> thorwil: hmm , i'm a bit confused?
<vish> i was playing around with it before the UDS..
<thorwil> vish: http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=2989
<vish> oh oh , troy is gonna kill me :s
<thorwil> vish: always remember, he's in canada!
<vish> ;)
<vish> thorwil: heh funny story bout that , actually i was looking at sessions for the UDS and landed in a women page http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Roadmap-M , i noticed the item six , so was fooling around with the logos.. wanted to ask troy *first* before doing anything , but i havent noticed him here for a while
<vish> thorwil: i like what he has done with the logo , but obviously it is his work i'd be modifying , so wouldnt want to redo it without his permissions
<thorwil> vish: i would skip his work, as the goal should be match the new style. so make it flat
<thorwil> vish: i can give you his email address
<vish> thorwil: this what i had done before the UDS , http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/uwomen2.png , http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/uwomen3.png
<vish> thorwil: email would be neat..
<thorwil> vish: the small corner to the top right of the cross is unfortunate
<thorwil> vish: like i said, just try to stick a cross below the circle of the ubuntu logo to turn it into a venus symbol
<vish> thorwil: yeah , i have to fix that  , i was just playing with it for 15-20mins before packed for the UDS , needs more work , i was wondering if i have to make the logo thicker or something
<vish> packing*
<vish> thorwil: the fonts i used for the women are probably droid ;p
<vish> need to check the svg
<thorwil> whatever it is, it's harsh
<vish> thorwil: was actually thinking of using the ubuntu fonts , not sure how they would look though
<thorwil> like usual, the rule should be clearly identical or clearly different
<vish> yeah
<vish> hmm , i think i was sitting right next to pleia in one manual session! i met so many people i'v interacted with on the irc and still havent met a few  :/
<vish> dashua: heya , when did your flight finally leave? ;)
<dashua> vish, Heya, around 1120.  Got home at 1430 my time.
<dashua> Did you leave on time?
<dashua> I arrived on schedule though.
<vish> dashua: my flight got delayed a bit but arrived on schedule too
<dashua> Ah good.  Still trying to get re-acclimated.
<vish> yeah me too, still kinda tired
<dashua> Same here, sleepy now.
<vish> thorwil: hehe , finally realized how crazy kwwii can be/get ;p
<vish> [heard lot of stories of his UDS escapades as well]
 * dashua bites his tongue. 
<thorwil> lol
<vish> dashua: now, we have ours as well dont we now ;p
<dashua> vish, You are infamous!
<vish> \o/
<vish> dashua: everyone likes ya ;p
<thorwil> vish: you know, kwwii told me that _i_ come over quite differently in real life compared to my online persona ... ;)
<dashua> vish, Hehe, don't i know.
<vish> thorwil: interesting , often, i figured you as a mr.grumpy .. ;p
<thorwil> vish: what? i'm high-in-the-sky hug-everyone mr. fluffy bunny dripping of love, joy and happiness!!
<thorwil> however, i can't stand sarcasm, going-meta and self-depreciation
<vish> thorwil: surprisingly, that is how you are with me..  ;)
<vish> oops the previous line ;p
<thorwil> i wonder if this row of introductions on the list and no one ever saying a peep again will continue
<vish> thorwil: we should make it more obvious in the wiki that there is design team in place now  , and we can help with extra work[s]
<thorwil> yes
<thorwil> vish: that and direct links to flickr and deviantart (allthough what i see there is not what i'd call inviting)
<vish> yeah..
<thorwil> vish: and a pointer over to ayatana for concepts going beyond theming
<thorwil> provided we get the ok for that
<vish> ayatana is turning into a unity brainstorm ;)
<vish> the ML that is
<thorwil> storm yes ;)
<vish> i have ~400mails in that inbox :/
<vish> thorwil: kwwii: did you see this  >  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1483137   ,  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid/Unity%20Theme  ?
<vish> quoting " Should I continue to put my effort into this?
<vish> I'm not even sure if my ideas are possible to achieve with the skinning possibilities of metacity.
<vish> So please enlighten me! "
<thorwil> vish: just delete all mails from those Brainerd and Frederik guys ;)
<vish> :D
<thorwil> vish: actually i'm serious
<vish> thorwil: yeah , i'v started to read mails from a few members only.. the rest somehow seem @#$@
<coz_> good day all
<vish> oh damnit! i might have missed meeting mbaerts
<coz_> who is mbaerts
<vish> mattbe
<vish> coz_: hey there , was mattbe at the UDS ?
<coz_> vish,  he said he was going to try to get there but wasnt sure
<coz_> vish,  I havent asked him since last time you two taked about it :)
<vish> ;)
<coz_> vish,   matttbe  is on #cairo-dock  now and he apparenlty went for one day
<vish> coz_: aw :(
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-18
<coz_> hey all
<coz_> damn fingers :)
<darkmatter> hiya coz_ o/
<coz_> darkmatter,  hey guy :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  how are you feeling ?
<darkmatter> coz_: better now that I had some tylenol. didn't realize how much strength the first round of treatment sapped from me. needed air earlier, so went to buy breads/sandwich goods. basket weighed a maximum of 15 lbs (probably closer to 8, but felt heavier), but was like wrestling a damn elephant
<darkmatter> feel the burn!
<coz_> darkmatter,  ooo yikes
<darkmatter> coz_: those little green grocery baskets. I needed both hands to carry it.. lol
<coz_> darkmatter,  I know this is "bump" in the road for you ... but I believe you can beat this thing again
<darkmatter> but otherwise I'm feeling fine. treatment is already showing results. all the  grossly inflamed lympho nodes near the surface (the visible ones) were gone three days after I started
<darkmatter> lymph*
<coz_> darkmatter,  ooo cool  ...that's good news  yes?
<darkmatter> coz_: it's not even a bump. it's a hiccup. just a relapse (being a chronic thing and all), but nowhere even remotely near the evil it was the last time
<coz_> darkmatter,  oh very very cool then....
<darkmatter> coz_: yupmeans the therapy they put me on is working. the leukemia will respond a bit slower (I'll hit rock bottom around next monday, then my blood will start strengthenimg slowly), but whatever
<darkmatter> coz_: last time it was "omg! stage 4! you're dying!". well, if that didn't kill me nothing will :D
<darkmatter> so little stage 1/2 is childs plaay
<coz_> darkmatter,  oh man.... i cant begin to understand what you are going through with this...all I know is I am sure you will beat this damn thing
<darkmatter> fingers no wurkiez :/
<coz_> darkmatter,    I was real worried last time  especially when I didnt hear from you for a way long tim
<coz_> time
<darkmatter> coz_: meh. only thing I'm going through is high levels of toxicity :P. the cancer hasn't ever been a big deal, really *shrug*. I mean, leukemia's and lymphomas are persistent buggers. but they respond well to treatments
<darkmatter> coz_: thanks for caring :). and thats the  thing I hate about cancer. it stresses other people out
<coz_> darkmatter,  ok then I will just be vigilant about asking how you are :)
<darkmatter> I mean, give me an iv and a shot of vodka and I'm fine. it's the rest that are worry warts
<coz_> darkmatter,  :)
<darkmatter> coz_: needless to say I'm on sabbatical. having a valid excuse for being a lazy arse is win ;p
<coz_> darkmatter,   I understand... and I  admire the stoic approach to this you have.... but i will still be  concerned  .... ok I will keep it at a minimum :)
<darkmatter> coz_: bah. wikipedia may be the crappiest resource on the planet, but is accurate enough http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-cell_chronic_lymphocytic_leukemia it not _that_ bad of a cancer to have
<coz_> darkmatter,   well wikipedia is not going to stop me from checking with you now and then :)
<darkmatter> lol. k :)
<darkmatter> but yeah. most patients live a normal lifespan, they just have occasional hurdles to jump over
<coz_> :)
<coz_> there ...just got rid of buttons on the left in lucid :)
<darkmatter> :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  i think buttons on the left make sense if you are left handed or have a physical handicap... or something in that vein...but doing it on purpose seems like a brain fart :)
<coz_> just my opinion ^^ :)
<darkmatter> coz_: aye. I mean, at least when it comes to an OS that traditionally had them on the right
<coz_> darkmatter,  yeah :)
<darkmatter> I call it consistency. imaging the geekrage that would ensue if MS moved their window buttons to the left ;)
<coz_> darkmatter,  ooo I would like to see that happen :)
<darkmatter> and my fingers still no wurkiez :/
<darkmatter> bah. they'll recover after some sleep. I'm just not going to bed until I medicate
<darkmatter> 2 more hours
<coz_> darkmatter,  yeah go rest  dude !
<coz_> darkmatter,  you have been sleeping ok yes?
<darkmatter> coz_: two hours! I need to stay upuntil 6:30 so I can have a breakfast of antibiotics!
<darkmatter> coz_: yup. napping most of the day
<coz_> darkmatter,  i already know you take vitamins also so  cool   rest is important
<darkmatter> but insomnia sorta. common side effect. tend to be up in the middle of the night
<coz_> darkmatter,  as long as you are rested ....
<darkmatter> yup
<darkmatter> I need to crack a window. it's 14 C out, which makes the puter room feel like 48 C :P
<coz_> ooo
<darkmatter> well. thats a bit of an exaggeration, but you know what I mean. warmest room in the house
<coz_> darkmatter,  yeah I got it :)
<darkmatter> especially after a high of 31 C yesterday. hot stagnant air
<coz_> darkmatter,  we have had rain here all day yesterday and apparenlty the same is going to happen today... it got chilly last night.... I just dont want a frost to happen because I have already planted my veggies :)
<darkmatter> we're supposed to have t-storms, but they're not showing up. so it's just heat and humidity :P
<coz_> eeeww
<coz_> i hate humidity
<darkmatter> coz_: even though I generally loath heat. it's kinda nice having late july temps in may
<coz_> darkmatter,  understood :)
<darkmatter> because we had march temps up untillast week. including snow :P
<coz_> darkmatter,  oh!  wow  its been fairly ok here just wet  and one frost
<darkmatter> it was like, -2to -6 C average, then suddenly "boom!" barbecue season :D
<coz_> :)
<kwwii> hi all
<darkmatter> speaking of barbecue. I should put the hibachi together
<kwwii> hi darkmatter, coz_
<darkmatter> hiya kwii
<kwwii> you can send some of the nice weather to germany
<coz_> kwwii,  hey guy
<kwwii> it has been crap for the last 3 weeks
<coz_> kwwii,  cold?
<kwwii> cold and wet
<coz_> eeeww
<kwwii> in the mountains it has been snowing again
<darkmatter> coz_: people keep telling me to get a real barbecue, but I only need to grill supper, not smoke a side of beef :P
<coz_> darkmatter,  :)
<kwwii> darkmatter: a hibachi can be a very good grill
<kwwii> if one knows how to use it
<darkmatter> kwwii: I wuv my hibachi
<kwwii> darkmatter: I wish I could find one in germany
<coz_> guys... I only got a couple hours sleep last night....damn iced tea.... i am going to a nap   be back a bit later  ... sorry for quick departure
<kwwii> I already have two weber grills :p
<darkmatter> :)
<kwwii> hehe
<darkmatter> kwwii: we had pretty crappy weather here until around the 12th. now we have an evil heat wave. crazy jetstream
<kwwii> darkmatter: I would love a heat wave now
<kwwii> funny this, I posted about using hugin
<kwwii> and one of the comments is "hey, you're using a modified Ambiance!"
<darkmatter> lol
<kwwii> if they were only as attentive to my bzr branches
<darkmatter> hehe
<darkmatter> yay! only an hour and a half until I take my pharmaceutical breakfast! \o/
<kwwii> the pink ones taste lovely
<darkmatter> yes. but the little white ones taste like ammonia smells :/
<kwwii> blah
<kwwii> I guess they don't allow you to take it with a stiff drink
<kwwii> whiskey for breakfast isn't probably the best idea anyway
<darkmatter> allopurinal being the little white beasts in question
<kwwii> the name sounds like it really cleans you out
<darkmatter> kwwii: meh. I'll be able to have an occasional drink after my blood starts to recover
<darkmatter> my bloodwork should hit rock bottom around monday or so, then start improving
<kwwii> then I bet you'll really enjoy it
<darkmatter> hehe. I bet ya I will. a little bit is a good thing :)
<kwwii> my step dad has been having some pretty serious problems and i know he is looking forward to having his frist drink :-)
<darkmatter> well. for me it's the FCR chemo regime. it kills the bone marrow and the lymphatic system (basically), so until it recovers a bit ethanol is kinda evil
<darkmatter> breakfast is a handful of antibiotics. lol
<kwwii> considering the kind of chemicals and what they are supposed to do it seems better
<kwwii> do you have any dietary limitations?
<kwwii> no alcohol or drugs is pretty clear
<kwwii> think how bad it would get if they told you to only eat couscous or such :p
<darkmatter> not particularly. basically if my digestive system can handle it I can eat it. I just lack an appetite and the ability to handle a full meal
<kwwii> yeah, once the chemo is over that'll change
<darkmatter> I'll have a sandwich or a salad, or a small bowl of a meal replacement cereal or whatever
<kwwii> I suggest eating soups
<kwwii> easier to digest
<darkmatter> but heck. it's worth the suffering. FCR chemo is more effective than the crap I was on the last time
<darkmatter> kwwii: I eat those too
<darkmatter> chicken I can handle fairly well. and I can still stomach my seafood chowders :D
<kwwii> do you cook yourself? if you ever need recipes or ideas, just ask
<darkmatter> I always cook. I just have to avoid a few of my favorites (it's not so much a matter of dietary limitations as it is preventing ulcerations)
<kwwii> yeah, that is what I thought
<kwwii> nothing too spicy (and maybe avoid too many tomatoes)
<darkmatter> I _love_ spicy stuff (as in peppers so high on the scoville scale they'd hospitalize most people :P). but because of the cyclophosphamide, it can lead to oral ulcerations, and thus potential infections
<darkmatter> so I kinda need to not enjoy them for the time being
<kwwii> luckily I live in germany so if I don't cook it myself it definitely won't be spicy
<darkmatter> I indulged in a red desert tepin at my brothers, and it burnt the crap out of my lips :(
<kwwii> even when they call it spicy, it's not spicy
<kwwii> :-(
<darkmatter> and they're so tasty too. little tiny capsicum about the size of a blueberry
<kwwii> hehe, never had one
 * thorwil still remembers the burn from when an indian colleague of his mother cooked dinner for the both families
<darkmatter> occasionally I'll eat one raw (whatever variety), but I usually just use them as seasoning in curries and such. but at least I have a reason other than "nom" to indulge in my beloved spiciness. not only is capsicum an effective anti-cancer supplement, so are things like turmeric, etc. so curry++
<darkmatter> kwwii: but anyway. the red desert tepin (also called the wild desert tepin) is the hottest species of capsicum on the planet. try at your own risk ;)
<kwwii> darkmatter: wow, sounds scary...at least I know of one more thing to avoid :p
<kwwii> I like it hot but not that hot
<darkmatter> hehe
<darkmatter> kwwii: most are fine as a seasoning. I just recommend most people avoid doing crazy thing like eating one whole and undiluted xD
<kwwii> darkmatter: indeed :-)
<kwwii> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1-Q_8EbB8A nice
<darkmatter> they look so small, unassuming and harmless until you put one in your mouth. hehe
<darkmatter> kwwii: win for big bang theory. even though sheldon's an idiot ;)
<kwwii> we are now becoming mainstream
<kwwii> lol
<darkmatter> yup. once you're mentioned on a sitcom you know you're going places
<vish> kwwii: hi.. could you send the originals? [the group foto] :)
<vish> darkmatter: sheldon is the best ;p
<darkmatter> :P
<kwwii> vish: erm, that is 345+ MB of photos
<vish> kwwii: oh , well then probably the two of the left side of the room would be enough .. ;)
<kwwii> vish: none of my email will let me send 34.5MB files
<thorwil> dropbox? ;p
<vish> hrm.. if you can bzip it, it would probably be smaller ..
<kwwii> the tiff files use LZW anyway
<kwwii> I will try and put them in ubuntuone
<kwwii> but only one of them to test
<vish> ooo , U1 .. need to get that setup in my system :D
<vish> somehow i kept having problems with it :/
<kwwii> no worries, it will take forever to upload this to ubuntuone anyway
<kwwii> ok, it is in my ubuntuone
<vish> kwwii: yay , and public url is... ?
 * vish plans on grabbing kwwii's flickr photos once he uploads his Brussels roll ;)
<kwwii> ubuntuone.com/p/4Bw
<kwwii> vish: most of my photos are already on my flickr page
<vish> kwwii: Bruno's photos were neat , the room looks much more awesome in the photos ;)
<kwwii> hehe, thanks
<dmac> Enter text here...hello
<dmac> anyone home
<dmac> hello
<pepsiman> What would I report a bug against to get http://www.ubuntu.com/files/countdown/1004/countdown-10.04-1/00.png changed?  It says "Its" where it should say "It's"
<dmac> ?
<dmac> i'm here looking for equipment.
<vish> pepsiman: it might be late but , kwwii might know how to fix it ;)
<vish> or how to get it fixed
<pepsiman> ok, I've sent him an email
<knome> anybody happen to know how to control the padding of foldertree items in thunderbird 3?
<andreasn_> knome, sure
<andreasn_> do you have the tb source code in front of you?
<knome> andreasn_, no :P i have userchrome.css :P
<knome> isn't there any other way?
<knome> i'm also trying to find out if i can call system colors from the userchrome file
<andreasn_> well, it's just that it's easier to see what to style if you have the folderpane.css in front of you
<andreasn_> try treechildren
<knome> where should i find that file? :)
<knome> #folderTree treechildren { height: 3px !important;
<knome> }
<knome>  --> no effect
<andreasn_> bbl
<knome> there doesn't seem to be any padding related stuff in folderPane.css
<andreasn_> knome, still around?
<knome> andreasn_, yeah, and i actually found a partial solution
<andreasn> ah, good
<knome> still having hard time reverting some of the items BACK with more padding
<knome> #folderTree treechildren::-moz-tree-row { margin-top: -1px; margin-bottom: -1px;
<knome> }
<knome> that worked for me
<andreasn> DOM inspector is usually great, but it has a hard time with the treeviews sometimes
<andreasn> ah, cool
<knome> but it cuts the icons
<knome> i've removed them from most items already, so not a *big* issue
<andreasn> yeah, it's because of the -1px margins I guess
<knome> yup.
<andreasn> let me know if you run into any more issues, this is what I do all day long :)
<knome> cool, i will
<knome> going to sleep soonish but will get back to this tomorrow or at latest, the day after
<knome> btw, you might be interested in my folderpanestyle for tb2; http://open.knome.fi/2009/10/16/a-compact-thunderbird-folderpane-revision-2/
<andreasn> here is the folderpane.css btw http://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/file/7823da3c6bf2/mail/themes/gnomestripe/mail/folderPane.css
<knome> i'm trying to achieve something similar but of course, with even more fixes and improvements
<knome> yeah i found that, no use for that really
<knome> margin-end == right
<knome> and then there's just lots of image definitions
<andreasn> yeah, that's so it works for left-to-right languages
<andreasn> most of it is picked up from the global variables
<knome> yeah
<knome> well i don't need to think special cases
<knome> i don't think i will publish this very widely, only posting a file in my blog
<knome> if people get interested, then maybe...
<andreasn> I like the idea a lot, I always end up with too many subfolders to get a good overview
<knome> yeah. i wanted to see all my folders at once
<knome> (and all my accounts...)
<andreasn> are you looking into the messageheader pane and message pane as well?
<knome> probably, but that's not my main focus and that will come later, if at all
<knome> the folderpane is what i need working like it used to to be able to work effectively
<knome> anyway, i'm going to sleep now so have a nice evening
<]grimm[> Does someone here know what theme engine the latest updated Dust family themes in gnome-themes-ubuntu depends on?  I was using the old .5x series without a problem but when I just updated to the latest version that shipped with Lucid, I find that I'm losing colors and controls
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-19
<jussi> kwwii: ping
<kwwii> jussi: hey
<jussi> kwwii: sorry, had to run away from the PC. Was wondering if you had time to do that logo for me yet?
<kwwii> jussi: nope, I will be out of town until the end of next week on business
<knome> which logo :P
<jussi> kwwii: no probs
<darkmatter> I love the new dropbox. no more fug fug http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/4621353903/sizes/o/ :D
<darkmatter> mornin' coz_
<coz_> darkmatter,  hey guy good morning :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  very very nice desktop there :)
<coz_> I like that image:)
<coz_> darkmatter,  also like the panel  background
<coz_> darkmatter, is this one of your themes?
<darkmatter> coz_: thanks. was just testing if I could get away with padding in the dropboxd tray (and it's actually easier to judge from a screenie oddly enough). and indeed I can. now to start making pretty monochrome tray icons for everything
<darkmatter> coz_: it's a WIP modification of Sonar (suse's default). still a long way from being finished, but most people think its better than the original
<coz_> darkmatter,  well judging by that panel shot I like it already
<coz_> darkmatter,  that is beautifully simple and clean:)
<darkmatter> so its half-and-half. Sonar has nice colors, but it's kinda bland and retroish
<darkmatter> coz_: aye. panel will be full/properly pixmapped when done
<coz_> darkmatter,  this is gnome??
<darkmatter> yup
<coz_> mmmm gnome :)
<darkmatter> coz_: lots of WIP pics http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/
<coz_> darkmatter,  i like desktop background but cant use it here because ubuntu lucid has a messed up wallpaper rendering
<coz_> darkmatter,  I cant span a wallpaper across dual monitors and all other options either mirror the image or center it between two monitors :(
<coz_> it sucks :(
<darkmatter> :/
<darkmatter> :(
<thorwil> ooh, deviantart really is a few jewels swimming in a see of poop :/
<darkmatter> ok. that brings new meaning to the word pain
<darkmatter> coz_: liquid nitrogen hurts :/
<coz_> darkmatter,  ooo
<darkmatter> coz_: my shitty immune system. picked up a plantars wart somewhere. the drops alone wont kill them, so on my dr/s recommendation picked up a freezy thing. OUCH
<darkmatter> they shoulda severed the nerves in my hand first :P
<darkmatter> it's kinda like shooting yourself in the foot with a nailgun, but more prolonged
<darkmatter> coz_: the things we do to ourselves for the sake of health and hygiene. lol
<coz_> darkmatter,  yikes
<coz_> darkmatter,  why are you using this again?
<darkmatter> coz_: because the virus may spread if I don't, and plantars have deep(er) roots than normal (or so they tell me) *shrug*
<coz_> darkmatter,  oh ok understood
<darkmatter> coz_: one of the drawbacks of chemo. you become a walking target for every virus and bacteria on the planet ;)
<darkmatter> and any infection tends to be accelerated since there's not really much your body can do to fight it on its own
<coz_> darkmatter,  ok I understand that
<coz_> brb  might have to go to grocery store  :)
<darkmatter> speaking of food. I'm gonna slice some onion and tomato into some iceberg and have me a salad
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-20
<ejat> hi all .. can i know where can i get ubuntu new brand banner artwork ?
<zniavre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/VisualIdentity
<zniavre> mmm 1mn too late ....
<zniavre> :o)
<darkmatter> anyone have a medium sized fluffy dog I could use as a sponge mop?
<zniavre> mine is quite big ...
<darkmatter> night sweats are starting again, so I barely slept. the bed looks like it was hit by a monsoon. lol
<zniavre> :o)
<SKL_Makay> hi all
<SKL_Makay> http://skl-projekt.hu/readarticle.php?article_id=57
<thorwil> hungarian?
<SKL_Makay> yes, sorry
<thorwil> i suspect there are not many people who can read that here ;)
<SKL_Makay> the image is important
<SKL_Makay> http://lh6.ggpht.com/_774SilF-FO8/S-_1HXk579I/AAAAAAAABvw/U-DojZF_pGA/s800/ubuntu-fail.png
<dashua> SKL_Makay, What are you demonstrating?  That the image on the left looks better?
<vish> SKL_Makay: more importantly , is that a mockup or a real theme ;)
<SKL_Makay> it's a mockup
<dashua> vish, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/67585/selection_010_kV05BR.png
<vish> SKL_Makay: mockups are easier , getting it to actually work is the tough part , if you can code that to a theme engine it would be awesome
<dashua> Have you seen this?
<vish> dashua: the small battery icon ?
<dashua> Yeah
<dashua> Two icons
<vish> dashua: oh , there is already bug about that.. there was a problem where the fallback notification area icon also shows up
<vish> s/was/is
<dashua> Ah ok
<dashua> Yeah, it''s not the AppIndicator
<SKL_Makay> do you develop the themes or that's a simple download from gnome-look.org?
<vish> SKL_Makay: the lighting for the metacity buttons is a bit over done in your mockups though ;)
<vish> SKL_Makay: the red "x" button well has been solved before the release , are you still noticing the broken well?
<SKL_Makay> a question: why is gnome the default desktop environment?
<coz_> SKL_Makay,  well  in my opinion Gnome is the most stable of the available DE's
<coz_> SKL_Makay, you dont like gnome?
<coz_> SKL_Makay,  because ubuntu can come with  kde or xfce  by default also
<SKL_Makay> yes, I dont like
<SKL_Makay> but I'm a Debian user and a little bit developer
<SKL_Makay> in my opinion KDE is the most advanced DE, but this is only my opinion
<SKL_Makay> i've made a plama theme (isnt' mockup)
<SKL_Makay> http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Arezzo2+by+Makay?content=123524
<]grimm[> Perhaps this is the wrong place to ask this, but could someone explain how the fancy Ubuntu tooltips were implemented?  I've got one box here that's not running Ubuntu which still has old style tooltips despite using an Ubuntu theme that ordinarily does not.  I tried applying the lucid diff to gtk+, have the same gtk2-engines, and have notify-OSD setup as in Ubuntu, but no luck with the tooltips
<zniavre_> isn't into gtkrc ? new-tooltip-style ?or somethinh around ?
<dashua> It's a gtk+2.0 patch
<dashua> Not sure if it's upstream yet.
<]grimm[> zniavre_: The theme I'm using has new-tooltip-style set
<]grimm[> dashua: I grabbed a gtk+2.0 patch that was apparently what was being applied to the package in lucid (the patch made reference to the new rounded corner tooltips), but even after patching and recompiling gtk+, for some reason, I've still got the old tooltips
<]grimm[> Not sure why...
<dashua> Did you specify them in your gtkrc?
<dashua> GtkWidget::new-tooltip-style = 1
<]grimm[> dashua: yup, it's that's specified in the gtkrc
<dashua> ]grimm[, Hrm, not really sure.  Sounds like you did everything.
<dashua> What distro?
<dashua> bbl
<]grimm[> dashua: gentoo
<]grimm[> k
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-21
<cozziemoto> hey guys... just one comment ...the new ubuntu symbol sucks  yes?
<cozziemoto> ")
 * ejat poke hyperair
 * hyperair pokes ejat back
<ejat> are coming back to malaysia this june ?
<ejat> when is your semester break?
<vish> kwwii: hi , is daylight savings time used in UK or anywhere in Europe?
 * vish thought dst was mainly in north america
<thorwil> vish: i think it's in place in most of europe, actually
<thorwil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DaylightSaving-World-Subdivisions.png
<vish> thorwil: hmm , so you do change time in germany? neat
<vish> thorwil: yeah , saw that hence was confused ;)
<thorwil> vish: neat? effing stupid moronic bs no sane person could ever have agreed with. especially nobody thinking of information technology. go from every hour being unique to one hour in the year being ambiguous and another one not existing anymore. how clever
<vish> hehe :D
<vish> thorwil: why i was confused was since i havent heard of daylight savings on GMT , but the map had UK too , and kwwii ha worked on the calendar recently..
<thorwil> vish: i mean, if there really was something to be gained by 1 hour shift, why not leave clocks alone and shift business hours / schedules?
<vish> thorwil: i always wonder how people get used to it! ;)
<vish> exactly!
<thorwil> it's a micro-jetlag. hardly an impact one day after. though they say children, the elderly and farm animals don't like it at all
<vish> thorwil: was that the u-marketing #-meeting yesterday?
<thorwil> vish: come again?
<vish> thorwil: there was a meeting in #u-meeting regarding the ubuntu/community websites  , was wondering if it was the marketing meeting [i noticed you in the logs as well ;) ]
<vish> was kinda chaotic! o.0
<thorwil> vish: no, website. seems there is or will be a web-presence team
<vish> oh , was funny reading the logs , the speaker[s] couldnt even complete what they wanted to say ;p
<thorwil> yeah. i will stay out of that. creating web themes almost entirely but not quite like the official ubuntu one isn't exactly exciting
<thorwil> not to forget that i cringe each and every time i see the ubuntu logo at small scale, with a small blob that i know stands for the CoF, but nobody being unfamiliar with it could ever make out
<vish> ;)
<mrmcq2u> was just thinking that it would be awesome if you could have the context menu's used for the unity menu on normal gtk apps
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-22
<troy_s> vish: Hello.
<vish> re
<vish> troy_s: hi..
<troy_s> vish: How are things?
<troy_s> vish: Any news?
<vish> troy_s: as i mentioned the womem's team is looking to update the logo for the new branding..
<vish> troy_s: fine , nothing new , was at the UDS , was fun meeting a lot of *real* people than their nick ;p
<vish> troy_s: been busy ? havent seen you around. ;)
<troy_s> vish: Very much so.
<vish> troy_s: so yeah , i took up the task to track you down for the updating logo ;p  .. would be nice if you can find time to do it ;)
<troy_s> vish: I'll look into it. You have a thread?
<vish> troy_s: afaik , no mailing list threads.. chat was only on irc
<vish> troy_s: they have a new channel #ubuntu-women-project
<troy_s> I see.
<troy_s> vish: Ok must bed. I'll assume that this is going to be the ubuntu with Venus symbol tucked into the orange blob maybe.
<troy_s> vish: Of course, I don't believe many of the bits are available yet are they?
<vish> yeah
<vish> troy_s: the new branding is available
<vish> troy_s: the svg are here > http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/VisualIdentity
<coz_> hey guys..anyone know of an application that will let me enable or disable certain fonts on a system for spefic purposes... I mean enable only fonts I want to use  in a graphics app at a certain time
<coz_> ie   fontmanager :)
<coz_> nevermind  found a few to test
<thorwil> coz_: fontmatrix is da shit, but be careful with enabling/disabling fonts. was neither comfortable nor reliable when i tried that
<coz_> thorwil,  oo  ok  I just installed that that along with fonty python and fontmanager
<coz_> thorwil,   the one thing I would like it to do is the disabling of fonts  but i will be careful thanks :)
<vish> thorwil: argh! you are right , the Fredrick mails can just be avoided! :/
<vish> funny how he assumes qense doesnt know who developed apport!
<thorwil> vish: :)  i hope things are improving now, with some activity channeled to the wiki
<vish> thorwil: i had ~500 mails [most of which were redundant] , deleted most of them and reduced it to ~50 took nearly more than 2hrs ..  then i received this latest mail and got totally pissed :/  he is on the -shell ML too and kinda almost added to add him to the spam filter.. a few of the mails are +1 or awesome :(
<thorwil> vish: +1 or awesome?
<vish> thorwil: his replies just contain  "+1" or "awesome" or "interesting" ?
<vish> s/?/ /
<vish> thorwil: must really praise sabdfl for alteast trying to read those mails!  he has replied to a lot of the mails
<thorwil> vish: ah, that. i mentioned my frustration to djsiegel, pointed out that i think i can't mail those guys they should slow down or even shut up (wouldn't work) and if he has an idea
<thorwil> vish: no answer, just like there was no followup on my reply where he asked me if i would co-author something about how to talk about UX :/
<vish> :s
<zachtib> is there a style guide somewhere for the new monochrome notification icons in Lucid?
<Beyecixramd> http://beyecixramd.deviantart.com/art/Orangine-164896103
<thorwil> Beyecixramd: i would have preferred to see a larger preview of the wallpaper instead or maybe in addition to that presentation
<thorwil> Beyecixramd: i guess you are aware of the Ubuntu-Artists group? there's a plan underway to collect wallpaper submission similar to how it happens of flickr
<Beyecixramd> thorwil: there's no way to have the larger preview in deviantART
<Beyecixramd> just download it, and see for yourself, resolutions are listed there
<thorwil> troy_s: i have to wonder if you can take your face off, too
<troy_s> thorwil: I am in the middle of it now. The fun time of uber-busydom.
<troy_s> thorwil: How are things with you?
<thorwil> troy_s: enjoying summer getting serious in germany. had lots of fun creating http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/he-mark/ recently
<thorwil> troy_s: really busy people don't IRC ;)
<troy_s> Jesus H. mother of god wtf is that?!?
<thorwil> see, lots of fun!
<troy_s> You must have been on mushrooms.
<Beyecixramd> troy_s: LSD
<troy_s> Beyecixramd: True. Difficult to get a proper dosage out of mushrooms these days.
<Beyecixramd> troy_s: yeah, and you get LSD everywhere
<troy_s> thorwil: Anything been a happenin' around these parts?
<thorwil> troy_s: ubuntu-artwork is a zombie, my eyes or on the manual and ayatana
<troy_s> thorwil: Menuville.
<troy_s> thorwil: Brilliant immersive design going on there.
<thorwil> troy_s: seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/VisualIdentity ?
<troy_s> thorwil: Yes vish pointed me there last night.
 * thorwil strikes drawing under the influence of shrooms or lsd from his list, as apparently he doesn't need that trip, already having reached the destination
<troy_s> thorwil: LOL.
<Beyecixramd> thorwil: hmmmmm.... lead me there
<thorwil> Beyecixramd: just follow the rabbit that looks a bit like Jono Bacon
<Beyecixramd> thorwil: hmmm... bacon... i like bacon...
<Beyecixramd> thorwil: do you like bacon?
<Beyecixramd> thorwil: i also like cheese
<Beyecixramd> hmmm... bacon Â¡with cheese...
<Beyecixramd> or cheese with bacon, what do you prefer?
<knome> bacon with bacon
<Beyecixramd> knome: WTF THAT SUX
<knome> no.
<Beyecixramd> knome: and your name is a mess. decide, KDE or GNOME
<Beyecixramd> knome: DECIDE NAO
<knome> Beyecixramd, xfce.
<Beyecixramd> knome: bah, E17
<thorwil> i still don't know what to think of the new CoF geometry
<thorwil> good night!
<knome> night
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-05-23
<coz_> thorwil,   tried  fonty python...fontmatrix  and font-manager for gnome... Font manager  you simply double click the font to disable it with absolutely no side effets...it even has a regeneral font button
<coz_> thorwil,  i think...for my purposes...font-manager is really cool
<coz_> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/font-manager-a-font-management-application-for-the-gnome-desktop.html
<coz_> http://fontmanager.blogspot.com/
<thorwil> coz_: sure. fontmatrix has other feature that make it valuable for me
<coz_> thorwil,  understood... but if you need to disable and renable on the fly   font-manager does it extremely well :)
<thorwil> so currently i live with about 1700 fonts installed, which makes inkscape take a long time to load, unless you always keep an instance open and open files from there
<coz_> thorwil,  right lol  I am a font whore also lol   so this font-manager does exactly what I need and it can group fonts from what I can see  so a group can be enabled or disabled
<thorwil> of course i should get rid of most of them, but can't be bothered to invest the work
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-16
<vish> thorwil: well, nothing shocking this time around.. ;)   the most interesting thing might be that the team is either focussed for Ubuntu+2 or the one beyond that
<vish> thorwil: also, that they might be interested in community taking charge over the community wallpaper task, but seems no one is interested.. ;)
<thorwil> vish: oh well, that comes too late, then
<zniavre> good afternoon
<zniavre> please how to do this warning theme for nautilus please http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/Tc_LABcX-_I/AAAAAAAAEaQ/6pf6ReFws6c/pinguy4.png ?
<zniavre> how to open nautilus files browser with messages in infobar please ?
<zniavre> i can't find any usefull tricks
<doctormo> zniavre: What do you mean?
<zniavre> doctormo,  good evening
<doctormo> hello
<zniavre> i want to open gksudo nautilus with an alert message 'root thing dangerous blabla ...'
<zniavre> like thunar does
<doctormo> Doesn't sound too hard, there is a command line tool for doing an alert message.
<zniavre> im sure it's easy but i can't find any good informations about that
<vish> zniavre: for info bars you'd have to hack nautilus, (cant do it with just the theme)
<vish> zniavre: or what you can do is, set a symlink pointing to a different *gtk* theme for root
<zniavre> http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/Tc_LABcX-_I/AAAAAAAAEaQ/6pf6ReFws6c/pinguy4.png   > just do something like that
<vish> but all root apps will look different
<vish> zniavre: is that a mockup? or a working install?
<zniavre> it suposed to be a new distro ubuntu based called PinguyOs
<vish> looks like a hacked version of the hacked Nautilus, Nautilus-elementary  ;p
<vish> zniavre: if it is hosted somewhere, you could look at the nautilus changelog and figure out which commit made that change
<zniavre> yeah totally possible
<zniavre> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/05/pinguy-os-1104-released-with-classic.html#more
<vish> zniavre: you want the easiest trick?(but you wont have infobar) i have different themes for root and my user windows.. you could try that, but for your root nautilus you can set the background to red
<zniavre> in fact it's what i did since years (just background of nautilus) but the infobar is nice too
<zniavre> i m not sure this kind of derivate use changelog file as it should be
<zniavre> so installing vbox and trying to see
<zniavre> thank you answering
<vish> well, a good packager will record what they do, so likely it should be there..
<vish> zniavre: or it maybe due to a gksudo addon too?
<vish> have fun testing :)
<zniavre> gksudo addon ? i will check too
<vish> zniavre: oops, seems the package name is "nautilus-gksu" , could be something like that too..
<zniavre> ok i remember this package
<doctormo> vish: It's just a nautilus plugin, easy as pie too.
<doctormo> bit of python about 20 lines could do that zniavre
<vish> yea, if we hack the code its possible (but not just via theming..)
<zniavre> damned i do not want to hack (first i do not know) it can't be easily distrubuted
<zniavre> distributed*
<zniavre> i did not think at this so deep mod
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-17
<coz_> hey guys
<coz_> zniavre,  are you running pinguy 4 ?
<zniavre> doctormo, you were right it's 58ligne of .py
<zniavre> lines*
<zniavre> http://i.imgur.com/xBZgu.png
<vish> hmm.. troy_s crashed my system!! ?;
<vish> ;)
<troy_s> vish: Probably.
<troy_s> vish: How you been?
<vish> troy_s: just been busy.. was at the UDS last week..
<troy_s> vish: How did that go?
<troy_s> vish: <EDITED OUT COMMENT>
<vish> troy_s: well, wasnt a very productive/exciting one..
<troy_s> vish: Why not?
<vish> troy_s: nothing new, and the design team has their own pre-UDS sprint so a lot of their stuff gets discussed earlier
<troy_s> vish: Sure. And then we end up with the mockeries.
<vish> troy_s: one interesting thing was they were interested in getting community folks to take over the community wallpaper task, but i didnt get any takers..
<vish> troy_s: ha that too.. ;)
<troy_s> vish: Why bother with community wallpapers exactly?
<troy_s> vish: I think it is cutting to the crux of the issue.
<vish> well, there are people who get worry and do blog posts about them, so wondered if they might have been interested.. ;)
<vish> s/get//
<troy_s> vish: That the core of the issue is a cultural one. Hard to frame really.
<vish> troy_s: well, i'm pretty much at the point of giving up about the culture.. it aint gonna happen, atleast in Ubuntu..
<vish> not* in
<troy_s> vish: One has to ask oneself if, as a culture, it is a culture worth participating in. Speaking entirely personally, one that establishes zero voice just has zero interest.
<troy_s> vish: Exactly.
<troy_s> vish: Which is, I believe, a common line.
<troy_s> vish: Practically, if the goal is to really ignore the socio / philosophical implications (The very things that _might_ be interesting to a creative), then why not just jump on the wagon of the thing that is making far more progress - Android?
<vish> *nod*
<troy_s> vish: It's a curious scenario. Android is actually moving ahead with compelling design (see Honeycomb) and has done so in a year. That should be shameful to everyone in Libre.
<troy_s> vish: In parallel, even the Playbook delivers a degree of experience that is leagues ahead of Libre. Again, a year.
<troy_s> vish:  So something here is broken.
<vish> troy_s: i dont think HoneyComb was designed by a Libre/Open Community
<troy_s> vish: And all the buzzword drops of 'design' this and 'design' that around these parts cannot escape the brutal reality that they are outclassed in terms of mindforce.
<troy_s> vish: It wasn't. But neither was Unity really.
<troy_s> vish: But the teams are very small.
<troy_s> vish: So there is some similarity there.
<troy_s> vish: The difference is in the people.
<troy_s> vish: And culture.
<troy_s> vish: I have zero doubt that there are talented folks here. Zero.
<troy_s> vish: So that begs the inevitable question, what is going wrong?
<troy_s> vish: (If in fact one seeks to define it as wrong. Again, this is all models and many don't see anything wrong. So be it.)
<troy_s> vish: I don't know. No easy answers as usual. In terms of progress, I suppose the best we could expect is an analysis. Don't see much of that either. Mostly still the same cult of ZOMGAWESOME and DONOTWANT.
<troy_s> vish: Which is so infuriating it just drives me to apathy.
<vish> troy_s: I've just come to a conclusion that Open design culture can not be brewed.. there seems to be a problem at both ends, people who have the power dont understand and people who have the talent dont settle for seconds
<troy_s> vish: I am not so pessimistic. But somewhere, there needs to be analysis. Some sort of examination of things beyond the bloody universals of "Good" "Bad" and that absolutely destructive word "Usability"
<vish> "usability" my a$$ ;p , no one really knows exactly what it is, everyone right now is just best guessing stuff..
<troy_s> vish: If it were only as easy as "doing good work" the job would be done. The culture and the contextual environment needs to permit it. Need to think of a good example.
<troy_s> vish: (It doesn't exist for the love of all things good and pure. It doesn't exist. Not in the universal sense for certain. It is a byproduct, and people chase it as though it is a cause.)
<troy_s> vish: (And not the least of which is the experiential side of it, perhaps the biggest and most glaring missing component of Unity. Does Unity do anything _that_ radically offensive? Not quite. Does it bring anything to the table? Not quite. But does it deliver a compelling experience to _any_ audience? I dare say in no uncertain terms, no. Plus one on going about it in their own way though. GNOME3 and the rest need more challenging.)
<vish> troy_s: the more annoying thing right now, is the Unity / Shell split.. :/  utter nonsense
<troy_s> vish: If you and I were to sit down and say, chat about art, I'd think we can see a good example. (1) We are about to do it and agree to. That is predicated on actually caring about it. (2) The types of things we would bring to the table would be radically different than say, PersonX and Y. Those are concrete differences that cannot be avoided. You cannot simply assume that process will dictate the same results purely on process.
<troy_s> vish: I've been reading more and more Foucault and Derrida again. It is shocking how on point they are and relevant.
<troy_s> vish: Derrida's challenge that "there is nothing outside of the text" really shows the absurdity of our very situation.
<troy_s> vish: Are you familiar with Derrida and that statement?
<vish> nope..
<troy_s> vish: (From Wikipedia on Deconstructionism) One of the definitions of what is called deconstruction would be the effort to take this limitless context into account, to pay the sharpest and broadest attention possible to context, and thus to an incessant movement of recontextualization.
<troy_s> vish: "Everywhere in these texts, the devaluation of writing showed to be "insistent, repetitive, even obscurely compulsive," and "the sign of a whole set of long-standing constraints. These constraints were practised at the price of contradictions, of denials, of dogmatic decrees."
<troy_s> vish: The latter portion of that last one is relevant here - that there are accepted beliefs that are being perpetuated unwritten and unsaid.
<vish> yea..
<troy_s> vish: I find it quite interesting. Practically, there are probably some interesting projects to look at.
<troy_s> vish: GIMP versus Blender, for example, in terms of community and cultures.
<troy_s> vish: What do you think of the two?
<vish> troy_s: i havent looked into those communities, all i have seen are some of the work done by those communities when thorwil posted links
<troy_s> vish: What have you found interesting of late? Anything in particular?
<vish> troy_s: of late, its more of loosing interest.. :)
<troy_s> vish: I didn't say subject. ;) That can't be across the board.
<vish> ;)
<troy_s> vish: Well?
<vish> troy_s: hmm, weird, now that you ask that, i think I've been on a mundane routine.. :s
 * vish needs to find something !!
<thorwil> routine kills
<vish> lol!!
<vish> could probably try going the "Dexter" route..
<vish> principled killing! ;)
<troy_s> thorwil: Greets.
<thorwil> hi troy_s
<troy_s> Well this is rousing.
<thorwil> today i made an offering to a client who really really wanted some fixed numbers, despite my stated problems of too many unknowns. minutes after they said OK, i learned that what i though was set in stone already is to be changed, pulling the carpet from under my estimates :)
<troy_s> Egads.
<vish> thorwil: fire the client! ;)
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> from one the people involved with Sintel: http://www.entoforms.com/
<vish> ooh! Sintel was an adorable short.
<troy_s> Little corndog for my liking. And not terribly well crafted. A production run amok really.
 * vish liked the ending, somehow i seem to be attracted to the tragic ones :D
<troy_s> It was just a ... nerdy cliche really.
<troy_s> More frustrated with Sintel than any of the others.
<troy_s> I can appreciate the potential for two directions... namely one where a voice is presented and another where there isn't really a voice and it is more a show of ability.
<troy_s> But it seems to fail on both of those fronts.
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-18
<vish> dashua: haha!! http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Oneiric/17103699_kzzLF6#1296097105_5mDnpdH-A-LB
<dashua> vish, Haha nice.
<dashua> Looking through them now.
<zniavre> im trying first time css style for gnome3
<zniavre> it's quite difficult
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-19
<coz_> hey guys
<zniavre> good afternoon
<zniavre> im trying ccs style for gtk3 i got a strange line just between menubar and toolbar can you help me please with it ?
<marcushaslam> hihi
<marcushaslam> I have a phone call at 3.30 can we make it earlier or later?
<mainerror> hello
<doctormo> hello
<mainerror> just realized that ivanka isn't around so I'll probably wait till tomorrow with my question
<thorwil> what horrible deed, now nobody here will be able to sleep, not knowing what the question may be!!
<coz_> ah oh,, what did I miss?
 * coz_ looks at scrollback
<coz_> gah no scrollback
<mainerror> evil isn't it? :D
<coz_> for sure
<mainerror> the question is about the animal logos on the t-shirts
<coz_> mainerror,  ubuntu t-shirts?
<mainerror> yes
<mainerror> is there a special reason that they are not available in the design toolkit?
<coz_> mm let me take alook online
<mainerror> I could butt kick myself because I forgot to ask that at the UDS ...
<coz_> mainerror,  its not on the store yet?
<coz_> or is it the narwhol tail t-shirt?
<mainerror> oh no I mean why the logos are not available as SVG
<coz_> mainerror,  oh!! double oh!  most definitly should be in svg
<coz_> mainerror,  how was UDS?  I just watched shuttleworth's  opening comments
<mainerror> it was awesome to get to know the people behind Ubuntu :)
<mainerror> in fact it was so awesome that I've decided to get to the next UDS too
<coz_> mainerror,  cool,, out of curiosity,, how much was the trip overall?  I mean cost
<mainerror> approximately 350â¬ from Monday till Friday for two persons, my dad wanted to attend it too :)
<coz_> mainerror,  excellent,, your dad?  that's cool :)  he enjoyed it as well ...yes?
<mainerror> yup :)
<coz_> very cool
<mainerror> http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Oneiric/i-5HhCFBS/0/XL/20110510-184228-UDSOneiric-XL.jpg
<mainerror> theres Jorge and me :)
<coz_> very cool
<coz_> mainerror,  the developers had orange ribbons?
<mainerror> you mean those name badges?
<coz_> yeah
<mainerror> no, everyone got them :)
<coz_> mainerror,  but I noticed the ribbon around the necks,,
<coz_> mainerror,  also how was Budapest ?  :)
<mainerror> oh the lanyard you mean, nah that was pretty random, one got a Linaro lanyard (the one I have) and other got the Ubuntu lanyard
<coz_> mainerror,  ah I see
<mainerror> Budapest was great, a beautiful city!
<coz_> mainerror,  excellent,, I am jealous :)
<coz_> thorwil,  what question is that?
<thorwil> coz_: mainerror already told you ;)
<coz_> oh
<coz_> sorry
<coz_> its going to be one of those days,,, I read and then  woosh,, its gone :)
<vish> mainerror: the animal logos on the t-shirt are not a "design guideline" hence probably not part of the toolkit, you could request the design team to release those if you are interested in doing other stuff with it..
<mainerror> alright, thanks vish. I was already thinking something like that :)
<vish> mainerror: you could poke ivanka/iain for it.. but i guess iain is better with those sutff
<vish> stuff*
<vish> ivanka probably already has a load of wrangling..
<mainerror> ok, I'll do that then :)
<vish> zniavre: i'm pretty sure, not many here know about the gtk3 theming :)  dashua might start working on it when unico is working..
<vish> i'd probably start looking at it too, when unico is ready..
<vish> but its a whole new thing and might take a while before people figure it out well..
<vish> zniavre: SeanW was one of the early folks who was theming GNOME3 , so he might know more, he usually hangs out in #gnome-shell
<vish> coz_: Budapest is a place where you might find it easier to find models for your pencil work ;)
<coz_> vish,  oh!  I am moving today  lol
<coz_> vish,  actually ,, I no longer do nude stuff,, it was a nice period of learning for me  but frankly putting up with models is not my favorite passtime :)
<vish> actually those are the tough ones, not easy doing them
<vish> (any human forms)
<coz_> vish,  I think too many people think its important to be able to draw naturalistically as if it means you are not an artist,, but or course drawing    a person  , place or thing has absolutely nothing to do with art :)
<mainerror> I do agree vish, Budapest is definitely the right city to find models :D
<vish> coz_: heh, yea, artistic imagination required! ;)  not every good artistic can get a human form right, nor is any person who gets the human form right a good artist ;p
<vish> err, s/any person/every person
<coz_> vish,  exactly,,, it is how you get the message across,,
<mainerror> and that also depends on the audience
<coz_> mainerror,  it does but a fine piece should cross backgrounds,, contries, languages
<vish> mainerror: you literally cannot walk the streets without getting solicited â¦ even odd was that the Hotel had people coming in o.0
<mainerror> vish, what? really? Thats really odd
<vish> mainerror: did you see the hotel's tour brochure? there is an add in it too! o.0
<mainerror> oh well yea I've seen those yea
<coz_> mainerror,  I dont recall seeing you here before,, I probably just wasnt around when you were here
<coz_> mainerror,  however ,, you are the only one  I have seen :)
 * coz_ refers to the photo :)
<mainerror> I'm new in this channel ;)
<coz_> mainerror,  excellent :)
<vish> nah, the cat is out of the bag, coz_ is a creepy stalker!!
<mainerror> but I'm very interested in digital art, especially in 2D art
<vish> he followed you home!!  look behind you ;p
<coz_> :)
<mainerror> vish, nope only the cat :D
<coz_> mainerror,  well this is very very cool,, a new person,, it gets tiring hearing vish 's  evil rants lol
<mainerror> lolz
<vish> ;)
<coz_> :)
<mainerror> this is my gallery on deviant art it someone is interested http://odamiean.deviantart.com/gallery/
<vish> coz_: you forgot darkmatter !! poor guy he'd pout if we dont include in our rants :p
<coz_> vish,  oh yes  I have to apologize :)
<mainerror> I should probably create some Ubuntu stuff and update it
<coz_> mainerror,  looking now
<coz_> mainerror,  cool
<mainerror> yes, I'm quite an Android fan
<mainerror> correction, I was an Android fan
<darkmatter> wuh? huh? who? o.O
<coz_> darkmatter,  :) hey guy
<coz_> darkmatter,  vish  just mentioned that you are evil incarnate :)
<mainerror> oh yea and I did that one http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/unity-keyboard-mouse-shortcuts/36648#36648
<darkmatter> and as for you vish: see this? oh no, wait, you can't see gestures over the internet, your loss :P
<mainerror> that one is at least Ubuntu related :D
<coz_> darkmatter,  lol
<vish> lmao!!
<coz_> mainerror,  oo that's interesting
<coz_> mainerror,  and you have the svg source ,, very excellent :)
<coz_> mainerror,   good idea by the way
<mainerror> thanks :)
<coz_> mainerror,  i think with 11.04's  introduction to Unity ,, this is going to be needed
<coz_> opening inkscape to take closer look :)
<mainerror> I'm planing to do something a bit more advanced though. An overlay (like the conky overlays) which gets triggered by, lets say Ctrl + H. It displays that cheat sheet.
<coz_> mainerror,  oo that would be real nice
<mainerror> that be resolution independent cause right now the solution sucks
<coz_> mainerror,  I wonder if it can be triggered from within compiz as well
<mainerror> coz_, yea beware some elements are on the wrong layers, I should fix that if I find the time
<coz_> mainerror, ok lookin carefully :)
<coz_> mainerror,  out of curiosity, how were you planning to create an overlay for this?  via xcompozitereleaseoverlaywindow?
<mainerror> honestly I have no idea, I've never done something like that before :)
<coz_> mainerror,  oh  , I have been doing a bit of research on this since you mentioned it,, I think I need to re word the search string,, but I did come across this    http://linux.die.net/man/3/xcompositereleaseoverlaywindow
<mainerror> hmm, looks interesting
<coz_> mainerror,  I am also asking sam  if we can create a overlay plugin for any type of image,,,  should be easy with compiz
<coz_> mainerror,  although it would be nicer to have this on the system with or without compiz
<mainerror> the only question is, does it make sense without compiz? I mean Unity depends on compiz
<coz_> mainerror,  that is a good point
<coz_> mainerror,  well I will see what he says,, it should be no issue as a compiz plugin
<mainerror> sounds great, thanks!
<coz_> mainerror,  well the only thing I was thinking is  Unity 2d  or at least on 11.04  classic ( no effects)  people using either of those would be left out of the overlay
<mainerror> true
<mainerror> ok I'm absolutely confused by the brand communication guideline, which dot pattern do I have to use for community stuff now?
<coz_> mainerror,  I am just as confused,,
<mainerror> judging by the name none at all. one is called the developer dots and the other one is called the enterprise dots
<coz_> mainerror,  where are you looking?
<mainerror> dot patterns and usage
<coz_> thanks
<mainerror> I'm off to bed, catch ya tomorrow
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-20
<coz_> hey guys
<mainerror> hello again
<mainerror> oh iain is in here great
<mainerror> iainfarrell, I have a question about the Ubuntu t-shirt animal logos. Is there any special reason why they are not available as SVG in the tool kit?
<iainfarrell> hey there
<iainfarrell> mainerror: only that we haven't been back from UDS long enough to share the latest one
<iainfarrell> and we've not shared them before but we can :)
<mainerror> that would be awesome :)
<mainerror> I do understand that you have a lot of work now, I was at the design sessions ;)
 * thorwil inspects http://publictest04.fedoraproject.org/artboard/
<Islington> thorwil: hah, I signed up too
<thorwil> Islington: oh, i didn't sign up, just had to look after seeing mairin's blog post
<Islington> it quite nice
<thorwil> the comment timeline is an interesting feature http://publictest04.fedoraproject.org/artboard/index.php?q=/comment/list
<mainerror> o/
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-21
<tim___> hi guys
<tim___> could i contribute to the ubuntu art without jioning a mailing list
<tim___> hi BHSPitMonkey
<BHSPitMonkey> hi?
<tim___> do you know if i can contribute to ubuntu artwork without jioining the mailing list
<tim___> :/ talk about being blanked
 * stjohnmedrano is away: Away lang!.
<booboo> .whois coz_
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-05-22
<mainerror> hello
<thorwil> aloha
<mainerror> :)
<mhall119> can someone check the wiki page listed in /topic, it looks....wrong
<thorwil> the diff is rather interesting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork?action=diff&rev2=85&rev1=84
<thorwil> mhall119: rolled back, thanks for noticing
<thorwil> vish: if tapu15948 does something like that again, other measures are needed
<vish> thorwil: yea, we can ask lp admins to ban such users
 * vish tries Google Translator..
<vish> heh, no Bengali available :D
<scott-ian> I have created a launchpad team here: https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-users and need artwork to use as the teams logo.  As you can see, a quickly combined the Gnome and Ubuntu logos, but I would like a better logo.  I would do it myself, but I am not very artistic.  Anyone up for the chalenge?
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-05-15
<windbuntu> i have asuggestion for ubuntu artwork
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-05-20
<newhoa> Quick question: Nautilus is using media-eject-symbolic as the unmount icon in the sidebar now. Is there a way to define the color of this icon? Mine will only show black. I know you can define a class (warning for orange), but is it limited to only a few colors?
#ubuntu-artwork 2013-05-15
<croxio5> Hi guys, mind if I just shoot a quick question?
