#ubuntu-phone 2012-02-13
<Ultimoore> so who wants to talk?
#ubuntu-phone 2012-02-16
<Ultimoore> whats going on jive turkeys.
#ubuntu-phone 2012-02-19
<Ultimoore> hello everyone
#ubuntu-phone 2013-02-11
<Prax> hola
<Prax> I was just courious if there was anymore of an eta for the galaxy nexus image
<tarelerulz> Is there a release date for Ubuntu phone?  Something I couple put on a phone and see it with my own eyes?
<dpm> hi tarelerulz, this should help with your question: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone
<MostHated> wtb ubuntu phone for nexus 4 : \
<KevinWright> Yo, any Weather App people here?
<melnaquib> Hi Kevin
<KevinWright> melnaquib: Hey hey, how are you
<m-b-o> H Kevin
<KevinWright> m-b-o: hi
<melnaquib> fine, we still missing 2 ppl I guess
<Jakub> Hi guys
<KevinWright> Jakub: hello
<KevinWright> that's 3
<melnaquib> now 1, hi Yakub
<melnaquib> now 1, hi Jakub*
<ToMfromTO> Yes Kevin, hello.
<KevinWright> m-b-o, Jakub, melnaquib, ToMfromTO: Hi all
<KevinWright> m-b-o, Jakub, melnaquib, ToMfromTO: Did you all get a chance to look at the wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps/Weather
<rustino> hi everyone!
<Jakub> I did
<m-b-o> yes
<KevinWright> rustino: hi
<rustino> hi Kevin
<ToMfromTO> yes
<KevinWright> Were there any specific questions or comments that come to mind?
<KevinWright> It doesn't have a lot of detail so we should fill in the gaps
<KevinWright> Example, are the user stories valid / complete?
<KevinWright> Any comments about those?
<KevinWright> Something to add?
<m-b-o> I want to add more than one location
<KevinWright> Good idea
<KevinWright> Anything else anyone?
<melnaquib> should there be charts?
<KevinWright> Maybe
<KevinWright> If we can do it, why not!
<KevinWright> I think one of the weather apps I looked at does the same
<KevinWright> It shows by the hour change in temp.
<Jakub> charts in my opinion is must to be
<KevinWright> What other kind of charts?
<Jakub> i really like new.meteo.pl weather from Warsaw University
<melnaquib> charts that soan a week/month of daily temperature
<KevinWright> That's a good idea
<Jakub> charts of temperature, humidity and cloud (if available)
<melnaquib> or just symbols for sunny/cloudy/foggy/snow/etc
<KevinWright> BTW, we need a data source
<KevinWright> The wiki suggests some possible sources
<KevinWright> But maybe we need to look for more
<ToMfromTO> I don't think that charts are an essential part of the application.
<KevinWright> Some simple ones at first might be good
<melnaquib> in later phase, i'd suggest accepting plugins for data sources
<KevinWright> You mean more than one source of data? e.g. to swap between different sources?
<melnaquib> a file with xpath, something similar
<KevinWright> So at first we need to choose one good one
<ToMfromTO> Current weather information and a week forecast is enough for me.
<melnaquib> "to swap between different sources?" yes, and allow user to download a "plugin file" that would naturally come from store later
<KevinWright> I guess we would need to look into that later, but it is a good idea
<KevinWright>  Yes the current weather is a must have
<KevinWright> And 5 to 7 day forecast for sure
<KevinWright> What about hourly?
<m-b-o> as a second/detail view perhaps?
<melnaquib> hourly? haven't run into that before
<melnaquib> "as a second/detail view perhaps?" good idea
<KevinWright> I saw it in one app or site
<KevinWright> Yes, it was secondary
<Jakub> I'm using hour weather forcast from Warsaw University. They have so good model that it's really great thing to have
<Jakub> but unfortunately they told me that no API is available
<KevinWright> Ah too bad
<KevinWright> We need a good API for sure
<KevinWright> The one here looks good: http://api.yr.no/weatherapi/documentation
<rustino> information about sunset/moonset sunrise/moonrise
<m-b-o> another api: http://www.weather.com/services/xmloap.html
<KevinWright> But not sure if it covers all use cases
<KevinWright> rustino: that would be good
<KevinWright> So the priority seems to be current weather, 5-7 day forecast, and maybe hourly
<KevinWright> Should or could have might be some additional detail such as humidity, sunset etc.
<melnaquib> should i query a location without stting it?
<melnaquib> like, see how is now in Berlin, without saving the city location
<rustino> wunderground has some interesting api
<rustino> http://www.wunderground.com/weather/api/
<KevinWright> melnaquib: so you mean the user switching a city
<Jakub> I think the most important are temperature, level of rain and cloudiness
<KevinWright> rustino: does it look easy to use?
<rustino> but has some limitation for free use
<KevinWright> ah too bad
<KevinWright> Wat kind of limitation
<KevinWright> wat == what
<KevinWright> Jakub: agreed
<melnaquib> http://www.wunderground.com/weather/api/d/pricing.html
<rustino> 500 calls/day 10  all/minute
<KevinWright> We should find a free source
<KevinWright> If that determines the limitations on functionality that's OK
<melnaquib> only 3 days forecast
<KevinWright> 3 days isn't so bad
<rustino> http://openweathermap.org/
<rustino> still beta, but promising
<KevinWright> might be good enough
<KevinWright> OK, maybe the first action point is to collect all the different possible sources of data we can find and compare them
<KevinWright> How does that sound
<Jakub> great idea
<KevinWright> Should all of us give it a try or only a couple of us
<melnaquib> :Kevin, sounds ok, give us a time limit for searching it
<KevinWright> If we all take 1 or 2 days at our leisure it could be enough
<KevinWright> Just a small amount of time to search should be OK
<KevinWright> We already have some good suggestions
<KevinWright> Maybe we will have some duplicate suggestions, but that is OK
<KevinWright> It will confirm the better selections
<KevinWright> How does that sound
<melnaquib> great
<rustino> great
<m-b-o> okay
<Jakub> ok
<KevinWright> ToMfromTO: how does that sound
<KevinWright> OK, where should we collect the information?
<KevinWright> Just share it by email at first?
<ToMfromTO> Sound's just fine, I've found some other sources: http://blog.programmableweb.com/2012/01/11/12-json-weather-apis/
<KevinWright> Cool
<KevinWright> Once we know the API we are dealing with then we can start some coding and creating more specific action items for the back end
<usererror> trello works great for brainstorming
<KevinWright> usererror: nice suggestion
<usererror> tym
<ToMfromTO> basecamp is great is someone has a payed account
<usererror> never checked it out but I will
<ToMfromTO> *if
<KevinWright> Let's start with a couple of emails and look at trello at the same time
<KevinWright> Alright I think we have the start of a plan
<KevinWright> How about we sync up again on Wednesday everyone?
<m-b-o> would be okay for me
<melnaquib> good for me
<usererror> Good luck to ya guys, glad I could offer useful input - Looking forward to learning from your project (and using it!)
<Jakub> Accuweather has many positive votes on Android Market. Maybe we should also look in that direction...?
<KevinWright> usererror: thanks again for the suggestion
<KevinWright> Jakub: let's check the features
<usererror> feel free to PM me any time if you want someone to brainstorm with or just have a random issue..
<ToMfromTO> wednesday is fine with me
<usererror> PM or Highlight **
<KevinWright> Alright Weather App people, thanks for meeting up...ttyl!
<melnaquib> bye evrybody
<m-b-o> cu!
<Jakub> thanks, buy
<Jakub> bye;)
<ToMfromTO> Thanks Kevin, bye
<Jakub> Hevin are You still there?
<rustino> wed is ok for me
<rustino> tnx everyone!
<rustino> bye bye
<wastrel> hi phonies
<Neo31> hello folks, can someone provide a mailing list for ubuntu phone please ?
<Neo31> I am also interested in contributing to the project, is there something I can help with !?
<Lazowik> as for now you can download SDK and write apps
<Lazowik> you can find the list at launchpad
<Neo31> yes Lazowik , I am aware of that. any todo list or other things I can help with please ?
<Neo31> ok
<Lazowik> and only there you can subscribe, by joining the group
<Lazowik> as far as I know you can help with development of the core apps
<Neo31> done
<Neo31> good :)
<Lazowik> they will be preintalled
<Neo31> thanks for help Lazowik
<Lazowik> no problem ;)
<ryansipes> Neo31: You can always develop other apps too.
<ryansipes> Neo31: I've been working on a couple that I will make available for the phone once I've had a chance to test them myself (once the phone image is released).
<Neo31> yep, I wanted to see if there are some requested apps that are not developed yet
<Neo31> good :)
<nOStahl> hi all
<Neo31> do you know if there will be some emulator or virtual ubuntu phone soon for testing apps? (I can't afford an expensive phone for now)
<nOStahl> that would be neat
<nOStahl> so I have a buddy with an older common android phone
<nOStahl> what all will he have to do to install ubuntu phone on it
<Lazowik> I'd depend on xda guys
<Neo31> as I know ubuntu is only supported on the galaxy nexus device for now
<nOStahl> thought the key was, if there are android drivers for your device then ubuntu for phones works on it
<Neo31> you are on your own for other devices, but they also say it is compatible with android drivers (which is the hardest thing to work on for xda guys)
<Neo31> yep that's it nOStahl
<Lazowik> I think that the next thing might be screen size
<Lazowik> UI will be probably suited to Nexus
<Neo31> and cpu + ram
<nOStahl> how much are nexus phones going for now
<Neo31> high cpu+ram is required to be able to switch to desktop on the same device
<Lazowik> remember you want galaxy nexus, *not* nexus 4
<Lazowik> gsm
<nOStahl> I'm very excited
<Neo31> have a look on ebay nOStahl you can find cheaper ones
<nOStahl> 160ish
<nOStahl> not bad
<nOStahl> is ubuntu for phone finally a good phone for IT guys who manage servers on the go lol
<nOStahl> iPhone minority works lol
<Neo31> it is absolutely
<nOStahl> a real terminal on my phone? :)
<Lazowik> you get terminal out of box
<Neo31> I am currently a sys and network admin
<nOStahl> now if only I could install it on my iPhone 5
<Neo31> there is nothing better than a native linux phone :)
<nOStahl> i do like this iPhone feel
<nOStahl> will we see netflix on ubuntu phone
<Neo31> i think that depends on netflix!
<nOStahl> I sure hope we will
<nOStahl> what drm did they use for android phones?
<Sinan___> I want ubuntu phone for my note 2 :)
<Sinan___> With Samsung smart dock, it'll be an awesome pocket computer
<nOStahl> so how long till we see ubuntu for tablets
<nOStahl> Sinan___: that'd be pretty cool with a dock
<nOStahl> Sinan___: i'd like a laptop dock device just keyboard and monitor etc and maybe a battery
#ubuntu-phone 2013-02-12
<danieru_> wait, if this channel was created 1.3 years ago is that about when the ubuntu phone project started?
<danieru_> As 12.10 does not work with my netbook I am on 12.04, does ubuntu phone development environment work on 12.04
<danieru_> ?
<nOStahl> not sure
<nOStahl> why does 12.10 not work
<nOStahl> it works on my eee pc 901 perfectly
<danieru_> I am not sure. It is a aspire one D270
<danieru_> I tried 12.10 and it got through live cd fine but black screened after install
<danieru_> My desktop and laptop have 12.10 though
<danieru_> but I use the netbook for class
<nOStahl> simple fix
<nOStahl> google black screen
<nOStahl> ubuntu 12.10 blackscreen boot
<danieru_> is it a common issue?
<nOStahl> nope
<danieru_> I don't remember finding anything helpful back when I was troubleshooting
<DanielDressler> I do have qt-components-ubuntu installed which depends on qt5 which is also installed, but I cannot find the qmlscene binary
<DanielDressler> Any ideas?
<DanielDressler> ah found it, find to the rescue. It was /usr/bin/qmlscene
<DanielDressler> so either my install is odd but the tutorial uses /opt/qt5/bin/qmlscene
<DanielDressler> awesome, the tutorial code is now working
<nOStahl> any news on if that welcome screen is coming to desktop ubuntu as well?
<usererror> not heard anything on that topic yet myself
<nOStahl> I'm real excited for this heh
<usererror> yeah :)
<k1l_> any rumors on a nexus4 image?
<usererror> none
<usererror> there won't be until source is released
<k1l_> i hope the ubuntu-phone guys are not still in backorder-limbo :)
<usererror> then there will be plenty of people porting it to everything under the sun
<nOStahl> any word on when they will do ubuntu for tablets ?
<usererror> out of the many questions I have, the most immediate one is, will the images be for the international Galaxy Nexus only?  Or the GSM versions only?  Or all?  Because I have a Toro (VZW), and it'd be nice to know if I'll be waiting for images or if it'll be included in the initial release...
<usererror> but I'm sure I'll find out soon enough?
<ryansipes> usererror: I asked the same question, initially the image will be released for the GSM Galaxy Nexus
<ryansipes> usererror: However, there appears to be much interest to port it to the other GN models, and after the image and source code are released this effort can begin.
<usererror> :) ty ryansipes.. that is what I figured would happen, but it is good to know for sure
<ryansipes> usererror: The response I got on the mailing list was: "The GSM model is the only one being targeted right now.  The OS may run on the other models, but it wouldn't be able to use the phone or 3G/4G data functionality.
<ryansipes> usererror: So if it isn't your primary phone you could still play with it possibly.  Haha.
<usererror> fun lol
<ryansipes> Yeah, using a phone without the "phone" functionality doesn't seem all that enticing.
<ryansipes> But if you just want to test your app or something it might not be all that bad.
<ryansipes> And I'm sure it will only be a short time before someone ports the image to another phone, considering Ubuntu Phone OS can allegedly use Android drivers.
<popey> thats what we're hoping âº
<popey> s/allegedly//
<wastrel> i have a galaxy nexus â¥
<ryansipes> popey: That is exciting if it can use them with relative ease.  I know many people who have older Android phones, and I bet Ubuntu Phone could breathe new life into them.
<ravirdv_> having it on N9 would be great!
<popey> I have no idea which phones would be capable of running it, that's what the community and people like xda-developers are for, they know this stuff ;)
<ryansipes> popey: Yeah, I just figure without the java element thrown in there (as with Android), it will be able to run on phones with less capable hardware.
<ryansipes> popey: Because it won't have to bother with the virtual machine that Android does.
<ryansipes> ravirdv_: Yeah, I'm sure a lot of N9 owners would appreciate that.
<ryansipes> ravirdv_: The N9's specs aren't that bad, it's not dual core like the Galaxy Nexus but it has the same amount of RAM
<nOStahl> wish I could install ubuntu for phone on my iPhone 5
<ubuntubhoy> LOL - no chance of that
<nOStahl> it'd sure be nice
<larsgk> mhall119: hi
<mhall119> hi larsgk
<larsgk> mhall119: I have been a bit behind on things as I just had a new baby.  I'm a bit uncertain on if we are already digging in code - or the designers need to do some polishing (or we are the designers)?
 * larsgk I am Lars Knudsen, on the RSS Feeder app 
<mhall119> larsgk: the designs were done on Balsamiq, we haven't started coding yet, but would like to start on that soon
<mhall119> I just pushed new bzr branches to each of the projects with an updated template
<DanielDressler> has the ubuntu phone sdk changed at all? I installed it last night from the instructions on 12.04 but my qmlscene is in a different directory vs the tutorial. Find found two qmlscenes in /usr/bin/qmlscene
<DanielDressler> /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/qt5/bin/qmlscene
<mhall119> DanielDressler: yes, the switch from qt5-beta1 to qt5-proper PPA changed the install location, the tutorial hasn't been updated yet
<larsgk> mhall119: ok - and when we start coding, do we then work in the master branch? (I did a small commit on a build error already - but don't know if you prefer things in a separate branch)
<DanielDressler> is /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/qt5/bin/qmlscene the proper qt5 one?
<mhall119> larsgk: the process will be to push to a separate branch, and then create a merge proposal for it in Launchpad
<mhall119> DanielDressler: I think /usr/bin/qmlscene is the one you want, it will automatically pick the qt4 or qt5 version depending on your target qml
<larsgk> the qt5-proper install screwed my 12.04/qt4 btw ;) .. and I am on a contract dependent on qt4.. oh well.. fixed it manually
<DanielDressler> very nice. I have been using that one and it has been working but I thought that might just be by chance
<mhall119> larsgk: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps/DevelopmentGuide, specifically the sections "Using Bzr" and "Using Launchpad"
<larsgk> mhall119: ok - I am new to launchpad/bzr - thanks for the links
<mhall119> larsgk: jppiiroi1en where should he file a bug about conflicts between qt4 and qt5?
<mhall119> larsgk: no problem, the whole page is all about developing these core apps, so worth reading before you get started
<larsgk> mhall119: do we just do an update on the sdk package to get the pure QML2 version?
<KevinWright> Hey ho Calendar App people!
<mhall119> larsgk: no, you'll need to do a new checkout of the project branch
<larsgk> mhall119: ok
<mhall119> so bzr branch lp:ubuntu-rssreader-app ./new-template
<larsgk> mhall119: thanks :)
<rferrazz> KevinWright, i'm here!
<mhall119> but the new template is very nice, provides the top-tabs and bottom-toolbar for you, just like the phone demo shows
<larsgk> mhall119: sounds good :)  . o O (thanks Nokia - for the investment in Qt5/QML2) ;)
<mhall119> KevinWright: is there an agenda doc or anything for this meeting?
<KevinWright> mhall119: blueprint only
<KevinWright> mhall119: and nothing in it!
<KevinWright> mhall119: we need to fill it up
<mhall119> that can be corrected :)
<mhall119> links for those interested in following along:
<mhall119> wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps/Calendar
<mhall119> Blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+spec/initial-calendar-development
<KevinWright> are Aleksandr, frank, Steven, Kunal, Mario B., or Mario Z. here?
<KevinWright> frank == frank
 * mariob is here
<KevinWright> mariob: hey!
<mariob> KevinWright: Hi
<mhall119> hey mariob
<mariob> mhall119: Hi
<KevinWright> mhall119: thanks for pasting those links
<mhall119> np
<KevinWright> mariob, mhall119: let's wait a moment. maybe it will be a small and short chat
<sunil_> KevinWright: Hi
<mariob> KevinWright: np
<KevinWright> sunil_: hi there
<mhall119> frankencode are you here?
<mariob> KevinWright: I'm not sure if you included Mario Z in the invitation mail
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_: did you have a chance to look at the resources?
<KevinWright> mariob: maybe he was a later addition to the mailing list
<mariob> KevinWright: Have browswd it quickly
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_: and have you been able to install the ubuntu-sdk + components?
<mariob> no issues
<KevinWright> mariob: excellent
<sunil_> yap. just got the update
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_: have you have a chance to go through the tutorial at developer.ubuntu.com?
<mariob> But I hvan't checkout the new stuff mhall119 mailed out
<sunil_> yes
<mariob> KevinWright: Yes
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_: awesome
<mhall119> mariob: it's simplified version of what's in the tutorial
<mhall119> just run "qmlscene calendar.qml"
<mariob> mhall119: ok
<mhall119> you should also be able to open the .qmlproject in QtCreator and run it from there
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_: so in the wiki link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps/Calendar there should be a rough sketch of the plan
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_: but we need to fill in more detail
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_: and make some work items
<mariob> KevinWright: sure
<sunil_> KevinWright: let me check the plan
<KevinWright> sunil_: np take your time
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_: so we should validate the user stories, functionality etc.
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_: it does not need to be perfect of course
<frankencode> mhall119: yes
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_: we can add/update anytime
<mhall119> frankencode: ah, good, calendar meeting time :)
<sunil_> KevinWright:okey
<KevinWright> hey frankencode
<frankencode> hey
<KevinWright> frankencode did you catch the earlier part of the discussion?
<KevinWright> we didn't get so far into it yet
<frankencode> i'm scanning it
<KevinWright> frankencode, np
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: anything you can think of to add to the functionality or use cases in the wiki
<frankencode> i had an issue with the code template for the apps to work with qt5 on 13.04
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: or just thoughts off the top of your head
<KevinWright> frankencode: what was the issue
<mhall119> frankencode: there's a new code template, just pushed this morning
<larsgk> q: what is the difference between qt5-proper and Qt5.0.x from Troll...Nok..Digia?
<mhall119> jppiiroi1en: Mirv: ^^ can either of you answer that?
<frankencode> the hack with setting the app name went infunctional
<KevinWright> mhall119: do we have designs for mariob, sunil_, frankencode
<sunil_> KevinWright:okey, will send them to you
<frankencode> rootObject() vs rootItem() i think
<KevinWright> sunil_ or you can mention them here
<mhall119> KevinWright: only the Balsamiq ones linked to from the wiki
<KevinWright> mhall119: better than nothing!
<frankencode> there are some good use cases on myalsamiq
<frankencode> i looked at it yesterday
<mhall119> frankencode: the new template is 100% QML
<sunil_> KevinWright: are we targeting specfically for Phones.
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: should we write up the use cases based on what is in balsamiq
<frankencode> real artists need a white sheet of paper;)
<KevinWright> sunil_ yes
<sunil_> KevinWright: okey
<mariob> KevinWright: sure
<sunil_> KevinWright: is the calender will be online or offline only
<frankencode> i heard the strategy is to go feature phone first
<mariob> KevinWright: but there's already a couple of stories on the wiki, right?
<frankencode> not sure if it holds true
<KevinWright> sunil_ at least offline, also online would be nice
<KevinWright> mariob: yes I wrote those up...they are not set in stone
<mhall119> frankencode: the feature phone requirements are a subset of the smartphone requirements, so it makes sense we'll have it first
<KevinWright> mariob: but if they are good enough then that is fine
<sunil_> KevinWright: means only with U1 not XChange or GCal
<mariob> KevinWright: no, but their a good starting point
<frankencode> mhall119: that's what i was thinking
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: I suspect supporting U1 should be must have if we can also do online
<frankencode> U1?
<mhall119> Ubuntu One
<mhall119> our cloud-syncing service
<frankencode> ahh
<frankencode> clear
<frankencode> is it xml or json, api wise?
<sunil_> KevinWright: okey
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode but I think the first stage is to get a local app
<sunil_> KevinWright: agree
<mariob> KevinWright: Should we use QOrganizer? That would make it transparent w/ plugins, right?
<mhall119> frankencode: I'm not sure, but the info should be here: https://one.ubuntu.com/developer/
<frankencode> ok
<mariob> KevinWright: sorry, QtOrganizer from the mobility project
<KevinWright> mariob: Yep I knew what you meant
<KevinWright> mariob: although I'm not familiar with the whol API
<KevinWright> whole
<frankencode> sunil_, mariob: i experimented already with the month view
<mariob> KevinWright: There's already QML bindings etc
<KevinWright> frankencode: is it easy to work with?
<frankencode> tried a nice flicking with month-wise snapping, but figured it feels crappy...
<KevinWright> mariob: that's what we need
<frankencode> KevinWright: easy to work with what?
<jppiiroi1en> mhall119: larsgk: packaging at least
<KevinWright> frankencode: sorry I might have misunderstood what you said earlier
<larsgk> mariob: about the stuff from mobility ... in what state is it?
<KevinWright> frankencode: ignoer my commment
<KevinWright> ignore
<larsgk> mariob: it was my impression that the mobility stuff was not exactly on par with core qt
<mariob> larsgk: Not sure, maybe we can check w/ digia
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: so what are some of the first steps we need
<mariob> larsgk: Not all of the modules
<sunil_> i suggest we start from goundup make it simple to use. then existing onces
<frankencode> i tried qtpim, but couldn't make it compile with qt5;)
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: any extra information needed at this stage or just start to make work items?
<larsgk> mariob: ok .. because I remember some that were not that ...great ;) .. but it could be that the organizer is (didn't work with that one)
<mhall119> +1 to sunil_'s idea, start simple just to get started
<sunil_> KevinWright: designer input !
<mariob> larsgk: But I'm sure they better than starting from scratch :)
<KevinWright> sunil_ +1
<mariob> KevinWright: I'd go for creating the UI
<frankencode> i'm on go, too
<larsgk> mariob: ;)
<mhall119> sunil_: anything specific you want from the designers?
<frankencode> my next work item, is to try another month view, look at the balsamiq input
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: so someone want to take care of another view?
<DanielDressler> I'm filling out the contributer aggreement and it is asking for "Canonical Project Manager or contact". Who should i put there?
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_: day? week? view
<mhall119> DanielDressler: put Kevin Wright
<DanielDressler> mhall119: thank you
<mhall119> np
<mariob> KevinWright: I can take a look at the day view
<KevinWright> mariob: OK
<KevinWright> sunil_ you OK with day view?
<sunil_> yes. actually if rather we start by coding . if we get designer to guide us then the day/week/month views will be uniform. just a suggestion
<sunil_> sure
<sunil_> day_view is okey with me
<frankencode> i tried already to get the month view in ubuntu shapes
<frankencode> but it looks cluttered
<mariob> KevinWright: Should I do the edit view then since sunil_ is doing the day view?
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: design input is of course needed but we can still work on the models for each view
<frankencode> ultimatly i think the design will look not much different than a calendar on the wall
<KevinWright> mariob: whoops
<frankencode> of course in full ubuntu fidelity
<mariob> KevinWright: np for me
<KevinWright> mariob: sorry my mistake I should have said week to sunil_
<sunil_> either one is fine with me
<mariob> KevinWright: I can take Week since I like Week view :)
<frankencode> mariob, sunil_: you are more into c++ or qml/js?
<KevinWright> mariob: sure that sounds good, sorry for that mistake :)
<j-b> Can we develop totally natively or do we need qml?
<sunil_> mariob: you preference
<DanielDressler> will ubuntu phone have something similar to android's intents?
<mariob> frankencode: I like QML :) but I do C++ too
<mariob> sunil_: Ok, I'll take the week view  then :)
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: we want to encourage a very QML centric approach as much as possible
<mhall119> DanielDressler: not yet, no
<sunil_> lot of C++ and 1 year QML
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: as in declarative heavy
<frankencode> KevinWrigt: +1
<mariob> KevinWright: Lot's of QML last 2 years, less C++
<sunil_> KevinWright: is fun to work
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: so push as much in that direction as possible
<mariob> KevinWright: Sounds good
<sunil_> KevinWright: Okey
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: use C++ in a plugin if you need to
<frankencode> mariob, sunil_: please ignore the exiting MonthModel.cpp, it's just an early prototype, i'm in rewrite today
<DanielDressler> mhall119: is it on the roadmap. I ask because I am interested in the file manager since coming from android ever app goes and reimplements a file browser. If ubuntu phone will ship with a file browser by default then that could mean great propress vs the current android situation
<DanielDressler> sorry I missed at least one '?'
<mariob> KevinWright: That's why I though QtOrganizer would be good since it already have QML bindings, but it might be too heavy, not sure
<sunil_> KevinWright: just one question. Is the UbuntuPhone Components only used .. or can use others?
<mariob> KevinWright: But I can't say in what state the module is in Qt5
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: for the UI itself please use the Ubuntu components
<mhall119> DanielDressler: I don't know if it's on the roadmap yet
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: but other available plugins we caan utilize for other functions
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: if there is something missing from Ubuntu components for the UI don't be afraid to bring it up
<wastrel> i did the currency converter tutorial what do i do next
<sunil_> mariob: i donot suggest qOrganizer as more desktop app look
<KevinWright> mariob: I'm not sure either
<KevinWright> mariob: we can and should check
<mariob> sunil_: no not qOrganizer, but QtOrganizer, just an API: http://doc.qt.digia.com/qtmobility/qtorganizer.html
<sunil_> KevinWright : Okey.
<KevinWright> mariob: could you take an action to check that API?
<frankencode> sunil_, mariob: you can get the source for the ubuntu components from   lp:ubuntu-ui-toolkit
<mariob> KevinWright: Sure, I can check how the QML bindings look like and maybe write a small example app
<KevinWright> mariob: great!
<sunil_> mariob: oops. my bad
<mariob> sunil_: np :) I also got lite confused when searching for the module
<frankencode> i think to that ui-toolkit project we can also place feature requests
<frankencode> ultimatly a date picker will be needed there...
<sunil_> frankencode: yes
<mariob> frankencode: That could actually be as simple as WP or BB10 do it, List view with three columns :)
<frankencode> qtorganizer: oh, that's a fat api already
<larsgk> mariob: didn't all things 'mobility' sortof got put on the shelf when they closed down brisbane?
<mariob> Yep, but it supports everything you need for PIM :)
<frankencode> mariob: yea, have get that bb10 sim back running again
<KevinWright> larsgk: somewhat yes
<KevinWright> larsgk: but for some modules it is only temporary
<mariob> larsgk: The question is if we should maintain the module or start developing one ourself...
<frankencode> larsgk: there are still some ex trolls working on mobility for bb10 here in munich
<frankencode> difficult to kill qt;)
<larsgk> frankencode: cool :) ... I failed to deliver an app within the timeframe... stuck with the dev device (cool though)
<KevinWright> frankencode: it is indeed
<mariob> larsgk: KevinWright frankencode and I'd be supprised if Jolla doesn't use it...
<frankencode> i surely will have a look at it
<larsgk> frankencode: Qt is excellent - using it for all current projects .. qtmobility not so much
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode should we wrap up the official part of the meeting? I think we have a good start
<mariob> larsgk: qtmobility didn't get the love it deserved :)
<mariob> KevinWright: Yes
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: feel free to continue talking of course
<sunil_> larsgk: can't agree more... Qt is great ..but .. qtmobility is not
<mariob> KevinWright, sunil_ , larsgk , frankencode I have to leave but I'll take a look at the QtOrganizer stuff and see if it works w/ Qt5 and create a small example app
<larsgk> sunil_: mariob: I especially love the plugin framework - like with qtsensors (soon to come back, I hope)
<KevinWright> mariob: thanks and talk to you soon!
<mariob> larsgk: Yes, Qt made by devs for devs :)
<sunil_> KevinWright: sure. will update the progress on day_view soon
<mariob> KevinWright: Thanks bye
<larsgk> sunil_: again - thanking Nokia for investing in Qt5 .. I really hope it manages to stay as open under Digia
<frankencode> KevinWright: cu, thx
<KevinWright> mariob, sunil_, frankencode: thanks all!
<larsgk> KevinWright and all: thanks for now
<sunil_> KevinWright: thanks. bye
<larsgk> :)
<KevinWright> larsgk: and thanks to you too
<larsgk> ;)
<sunil_> larsgk: i feel nokia dragged Qt to 5 years back ... just by putting name with it
<frals> hmm, been browsing through the docs a bit from a dev perspective.. is there any system diagram that shows all the components that are suppose to be in the os?
<sunil_> frals: searching for the same too.
<KevinWright> frals: the UI components? or other app dev support?
<j-b> frals: same here.
<j-b> And what we are allowed to use and not as a dev
<sunil_> UI components.
<frals> KevinWright: everything except UI components, more or less, which libs are available and stuff like that
<j-b> Yep. Anything not Qt related
<frals> yeah
<j-b> Can I use libc? glib? PA? OpenGL? Xv? xcb? D-Bus?
<larsgk> sunil_: actuall - Nokia made sure Qt got ready for mobile
<larsgk> sunil_: don't know if you worked there?
<frals> larsgk: guess theres quite a few ex-nokians here ;)
<KevinWright> larsgk, sunil_: Nokia also make Qt more open that it was before under Trolltech
<sunil_> larsgk: m not ex-nokian.
<larsgk> sunil_: correcting myself... Nokia made sure (with money and pressure - to put on actual phones) that Qt got ready for mobile
<daliusd> Hi
<KevinWright> daliusd: hey there
<larsgk> sunil_: Personally, I am in this to do my part for Ubuntu Phone to become what Nokia failed to continue
<j-b> frals: is you ever find this info, can you ping me ? :)
<frals> j-b: sure
<j-b> frals: thx
<sunil_> for me  Canonical helped Qt more then Nokia by using it in day-to-day products .. not some prototypes. Anyway that is just me.
<frankencode> larsgk: i think there is no choice, some open linux distro has to make it into the future, where there will be mobile computing devices only
<sunil_> larsgk: appreciate it.
<frals> KevinWright: i assume the clock app intro meeting-thingy will be in this chan since you didnt mention any other info in the mail, right? :)
<daliusd> sunil_: Qt is used on Symbian and MeeGo devices daily as well ;-)
<daliusd> Yep time for meeting
<kuifei> clock app things is expected here?
<KevinWright> frals: my email was confusing
<frals> kuifei: i think so :)
<sunil_> larsgk KevinWright: Thanks guys. See you soon again. Bye
<larsgk> sunil_: thanks - ttyl
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei are here for the clock app because of a mistake I made
<daliusd> KevinWright, and I'm here for calc app :)
<KevinWright> and daliusd, rferraz for calculator
<larsgk> any RSS Feed Reader app guys here?
<KevinWright> I double booked, yikes :) sorry every one
<daliusd> KevinWright, no problem
<kuifei> KevinWright, mistake?
<KevinWright> kuifei my mistake
<KevinWright> kuifei: I accidentally asked two groups to meet at the same time
<KevinWright> no problem though
<KevinWright> I have some general questions for all
<kuifei> sure
<KevinWright> kuifei, daluisd, larsgk, frals, rferraz: did you have a chance to see all the docs?
<daliusd> Yes
<rferrazz> yes
<KevinWright> mhall119: can you help me with links for calculator, rss feed, and clock?
<mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps/ has all the app links at the top
<mhall119> each app page has a blueprint link
<kuifei> tutorial, guidelines, and the code committed, what else?
<larsgk> KevinWright: I need to read up on launchpad (general), process, etc. There wasn't much specific to the rss reader
<frals> KevinWright: ive seen some of the docs - ie the getting started stuff, but im looking for (as i mentioned earlier before this meeting) system overview docs
<KevinWright> kuifei: there are specific project details at the links from mhall119
<KevinWright> larsgk: that's my action item to provide a summary
<kuifei> sure, I've read them through.
<KevinWright> larsgk: there should be some existing launchpad docs I can point you to
<daliusd> So design is final?
<larsgk> btw, do you store an offline version of this channel?
<kuifei> it's quite simple for the clock app
<larsgk> KevinWright: ok - more than the rss blueprint/project page?
<KevinWright> daliusd: I don't believe we have final designs. mhall119
<mhall119> only what's in balsamiq
<KevinWright> larsgk: not sure about offline - mhall119 again
<mhall119> and those aren't mandatory designs
<mhall119> larsgk: what do you mean an offline version?
<larsgk> KevinWright: there were some initial designs on balsamiq - but I am sure there will be changes as we try our own medicine
<KevinWright> larsgk: yes
<larsgk> mhall119: just an irc log for those who didn't buy an offline service yet (me ;))
<KevinWright> larsgk: so maybe concentrating on the backend functionality first will be easier
<mhall119> larsgk: they should be on http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<KevinWright> frals: at the moment what is available online is the most we have
<larsgk> mhall119: cool - thanks
<KevinWright> frals: more to come soon
<mhall119> larsgk: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/12/%23ubuntu-phone.txt for today's
<larsgk> mhall119: just checked - nice to know, thanks!
<frals> KevinWright: ok, because its kinda important to have so we can scope out the work for clock app - ie how much of the alarm functionality will we have to implement and how much is provided by underlying components, e.g. cron or timed
<daliusd> larsgk: change .txt to .html for nicer view (if that's important)
<larsgk> frals: and when the phone is 'off' .. it should still wake up and ring
<larsgk> frals: I guess ;)
<frals> larsgk: yeah, theres quite a few cases to consider, which i dont think is in scope of the clock app... but i might be wrong :)
<KevinWright> frals: we can do things iteratively. Must have basic clock that simply tells time as a first step. Then map out the second wave of features
<KevinWright> frals: support for alarms as suggested. I suspect a service would be needed
<frals> KevinWright: ok - the alarm stuff is marked as must. either way if its something clock team is responsible for its quite a huge task and something that needs to be started asap
<kuifei> or, do we really need it to tell time? time is always in the indicator, right?
<frals> ... and need to find the people in other teams that need similar functionality (eg calendar will need same stuff) and make sure it fits
<larsgk> KevinWright: do you know if there will be an RSS meeting today? - else, I gotta run
<KevinWright> frals: good point
<KevinWright> larsgk: let's sync tomorrow
<larsgk> KevinWright: ok - thanks .. ttyl
<KevinWright> larsgk: ttyl
<KevinWright> frals: would it make sense then to join forces with the calendar team on those common bits?
<frals> KevinWright: yeah... is there some kind of uber architect that decides what libs get to be in the system etc?
<frals> because like... a framework like the one for reminders/alarms is kinda important that it works and you know... doesnt suck ;)
<KevinWright> frals: let me follow up with you on the deeper bits later
<mhall119> can I get a quick show of hands, who is here for the Clock app?
<frals> KevinWright: sure
<frals> o/
<KevinWright> frals and kuifei
<mhall119> ok, and who is here for Calculator?
<rferrazz> me
<daliusd> and me
<mhall119> ok, in case you guys aren't aware, there was a new trunk branch pushed to the projects this morning
<mhall119> this contains new template code that is 100% QML, using new SDK components
<daliusd> that's good :)
<mhall119> so if you have an old branch that you're working on, you'll need to get this new one
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: should we brainstorm the basic features
<mhall119> we have some documentation on the development process here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps/DevelopmentGuide
<wastrel> this would appear to be a scheduled event
<mhall119> that includes how to submit your changes as merge proposals back to the trunk branch
<DanielDressler> for working with launchpad and the coreapps: do I need to be a member of the app's team to push to a new branch and propose for merging?
<rferrazz> nice
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: for the clock app
<mhall119> DanielDressler: you need to be a member to commit to trunk, but anybody can submit a branch for a merge proposal
<DanielDressler> nice thank you
<mhall119> even team members should submit changes as a merge proposal that gets reviewed by someone else on the tema
<kuifei> sure
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: starting with a couple of basic things we can make a work item or two for
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: maybe UI centric at first
<rferrazz> so we can start coding (for calculator backend)
<frals> KevinWright: sure, but i really want to limit the scope of the clock app so we know how much/little work there is to do as well
<KevinWright> rferrazz: yes, throw out some ideas for that would be great
<KevinWright> frals: agreed
<frals> KevinWright, kuifei: ill start... show local time. ;-)
<KevinWright> frals: +1
<KevinWright> frals: change time zone
<daliusd> rferrazz: I think we can do frontend as well. What's your vision for backend?
<kuifei> good idea
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: set alarm
<frals> (KevinWright: are you taking meeting minutes and stuff?)
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: I will make the minutes and record action items
<kuifei> setting alarms should be the core
<frals> KevinWright: is changing time zone something for the clock app, or for the system settings? i think we should provide a shortcut to the system settings to change timezone/region
<rferrazz> thinking of parsing the calculation string (at least for scientific mode)
<mhall119> frals: for system settings I would think ,and a shortcut would be good, but all of that can wait until the phone code itself is released
<KevinWright> frals: yes, I was just looking at my andoid alarm app and it has a world clock
<frals> KevinWright, kuifei: +1 for setting alarms (need info from KevinWright on how much of actual scheduling of alarm etc is implemented by us/vs lower level platform stuff)
<daliusd> rferrazz, OK. I think we can parse strings in non scientific mode as well
<rferrazz> daliusd, is there any final design for the frontend?
<kuifei> we need think about the division between the clock/alarm app and the system settings
<daliusd> rferrazz, mhall119 said that there might be never exist final one :)
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: we can work on the UI for the alarm setting without knowing the deeper bits at first I imagine, at least to some degree
<frals> kuifei: +1, i think showing the current local time (maybe additional optional tz as well) is a good starting point, and leave changing to system settings
<mhall119> agreed
<rferrazz> daliusd: ok, so we can pick the better ideas out from balsamiq and make our calculator
<daliusd> rferrazz: I agree :-)
<kuifei> a clock showing the current time, but not editable; then a list of alarms bellow this clock
<daliusd> rferrazz: what we will use for calculations? JavaScript (V8 engine) or C++?
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: do we have enough info for creating the set alarm view?
<rferrazz> daliusd, i thnk c++ is a better choice
<mhall119> daliusd: QML+Javascript is the preferred
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: I mean enough design info
<mhall119> unless there's a very good reason for using C++
<frals> KevinWright, kuifei: depends how complicated we want the recurrency rules for the alarm view ;-)
<KevinWright> frals: simple
<kuifei> no, i didn't find any UI design for clock app
<KevinWright> frals: I mean keep it simple
<frals> KevinWright, kuifei: the only designs i found were https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/Clock+and+Weather+App but it seems... mixed up with weather
<daliusd> mhall119, C++ might be slightly faster for math while V8 engine proved to be quite fast
<KevinWright> mhall119: any idea about what frals just mentioned about designs?
<DanielDressler> I would be surprised is performance proved an issue with the clock app
<kuifei> thanks frals, for the link
<rferrazz> daliusd, mhall119: ok, we can start with javascript
<daliusd> DanielDressler, there are two meetings going on here :-) performance might be issue for calc app
<KevinWright> daliusd: that's my fault
<daliusd> OK. JavaScript :)
<DanielDressler> daliusd: ah sorry I really am new
<daliusd> rferrazz: OK I will try to do something with frontend then
<DanielDressler> so does that mean there will be a meeting for the file manaer?
<KevinWright> dmd, I'll send you a message later about it
<dmd> KevinWright: thank you
<kuifei> frals, i think we could start the alarm based on the UI design
<frals> kuifei: yeah, should be doable
<kuifei> other features about clock/alarms, indicator on the top bar, indicator on the lock screen, ...
<frals> hmm, am i stupid or is there no search function on mybalsamiq? finding more clock designs now... theres a whole bunch of them
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: so who might like to take care of the add/edit alarm view?
<daliusd> rferrazz: does it look like a plan?
<daliusd> rferrazz: I think it would be nice to have unit-tests for backend as well. Not sure how however :)
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei:and I assume a view that shows current alarms already set
<frals> kuifei, KevinWright: https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/ClockAlarmApp-DominicRichardsonMatthewStevens https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/Clock+-+Alarms+-+Timer+-+Stopwatch+%285th+idea%29
<rferrazz> daliusd,yes but first we need to place in a basic structure
<frals> KevinWright: should we just pick one of the designs we like and start working from that or how does this work? :)
<daliusd> It might be possible that it is already in place
<daliusd> at least older version had structure
<KevinWright> daliusd, rferrazz: I didn't forget you guys but you look like you are taking care of business :)
<KevinWright> frals: I think that sounds like a plan
<rferrazz> daliusd: like placing the backend bones before start writing the frontend
<kuifei> so which one should we take?
<daliusd> rferrazz: frame is in place already http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-calculator-dev/ubuntu-calculator-app/trunk/files
<frals> kuifei: im going through mybalsamiq to check if i can find more clock mockups atm
<daliusd> rferrazz: I believe backend will be in *.js file anyway
<frals> kuifei, KevinWright: we should probably sync up the ui for creating alarm with the one calendar creates for setting a reminder
<daliusd> rferrazz: initially you can place file in the same folder as it is. Later we will move around everything if there will be need.
<mhall119> KevinWright: sorry, what was that about design?
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: yes I agree syncing with the calendar
<daliusd> rferrazz: and I think I have idea for unit-tests as well. We could create other qml-app that will simply run and lists tests in ListView
<KevinWright> mhall119: why clock and weather are mixed together at the link above ... I'm not familiar with balsamiq
<rferrazz> daliusd: ok so i'll start with the backend
<daliusd> rferraz: OK. I think that's it for today unless Kevin has something to add
<kuifei> frals, KevinWright: I think I'll just trying to implement the UIs in the first link
<daliusd> KevinWright: do you have anything else to say for us?
<frals> kuifei, KevinWright: https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/Clock+-+Timer+-+Stopwatch+-+Alarms https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/Clock+and+Weather+App https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/Clock+-+Countdown+-+Stopwatch
<frals> kuifei, KevinWright: https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/ClockAlarmApp-DominicRichardsonMatthewStevens https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/Clock+-+Alarms+-+Timer+-+Stopwatch+%285th+idea%29
<frals> kuifei, KevinWright: so we got 5 different proposals now - and now clue how they align with calendars work on reminders :)
<KevinWright> daliusd: sounds like you two have a plan hatched
<mhall119> KevinWright: it doesn't look like we have any clock mockups linked to the wiki
<rferrazz> daliusd, sounds good
<mhall119> frals: can you add those links to the wiki page for the clock?
<mhall119> KevinWright: which link has the mockups mixedup?
<KevinWright> daliusd, rferrazz: I can make some meeting notes from the irc channel and send then to you to later to validate the plan
<frals> mhall119: sure
<mhall119> thanks frals
<KevinWright> https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/Clock+and+Weather+App
<daliusd> KevinWright: OK
<rferrazz> daliusd, KevinWright: sure!
<KevinWright>  daliusd, rferrazz: apologies for making it confusing with two discussions
<daliusd> rferrazz: let's work ;-) Bye for now
<mhall119> KevinWright: looks like one person did them both together, instead of separately
<rferrazz> daliusd: bye :-)
<mhall119> not a big deal, they can be linked to from both clock and weather wiki pages
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: should we make an action item to decide on a specific design
<frals> KevinWright, kuifei: yes, and it should align with calendars reminder design (at least for alarms)
<kuifei> KevinWright: I think so.
<kuifei> i like this one very much, https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/Clock+-+Alarms+-+Timer+-+Stopwatch+%285th+idea%29
<KevinWright> kuifei: I like that one too. fral, what do you think?
<KevinWright> frals what do you think
<frals> KevinWright: and we also need an action item to get a system level overview of whats available for e.g. reminders/alarms
<KevinWright> frals: that one is mine
<frals> kuifei, KevinWright: looks alright. i *hate* the way its designed to pick time there (coming from N9 which has the best time picker ever ;))
<KevinWright> frals: I'll have to charge my n9 battery and take a look
<KevinWright> frals: have not turned it on in a while
<frals> KevinWright, kuifei: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFOHc5z_fCU
<KevinWright> frals: no I remember
<KevinWright> frals: you are right
<KevinWright> frals: even just the plain analogue clock is sweet
<frals> KevinWright, kuifei: if we can incorporate a timepicker like the youtube link the design kuifei linked works for me ;)
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: that sounds like a plan to me
<kuifei> cool
<frals> KevinWright: yeah, the design team on the n9 was ace
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: OK so since timepicker is up in the air, what specific area would each of you look into out of that design?
<kuifei> the video makes me miss my lost N9 again.
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: I see 4 views
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: clock, alarms, stopwatch, timer
<frals> KevinWright, kuifei: i could start with the main clock view i guess -- and when the rest of our team shows up its easy to split in to components
<kuifei> I may try the clock first
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: that's two for clock
<frals> np, i can start on the alarms view instead then
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: ok that works
<KevinWright> kuifei for clock and frals for alarm view
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: done
<frals> since we have something like 5 (or smth) more team members i guess we will get plenty of help anyway ;)
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: I'll type up meeting notes and send them out to the whole team
<KevinWright> frals: yup
<ajalkane> this might be nice start for timepicker like N9: https://gitorious.org/harmattan-timepicker/harmattan-timepicker/blobs/master/TimePicker.qml
<kuifei> thanks.
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: alright, thanks for the great meeting, and sorry for the confusion earlier on
<frals> bah the ubuntu wiki hates me with a passion, cant update the clockapp page
<frals> KevinWright: add an action to update the wiki page with selected design we start with and links to the other designs
<KevinWright> mhall119, can frals update the wiki page or does something special need to happen first?
<KevinWright> frals: will do
<mhall119> nope, anybody can update the wiki
<frals> getting a 500 internal server error when signing in
<mhall119> except when it fails
<mhall119> :(
<kuifei> :)
<KevinWright> frals, kuifei: thanks again guys. chat with you soon. Cheers!
<frals> KevinWright, kuifei: cheers, laters
<dmd> does any one have an idea where ubuntu sticks nautilus's folder icon? I am searching /usr/share/icons but I'm going a bit crazy
<kuifei> KevinWright, frals: Cheers!
<mhall119> dmd: they are determined by the icon theme the user has chosen
<mhall119> I think the default is still Humanity
<dmd> thank you that does narrow my search
<mhall119> dmd: why?
<wastrel> /usr/share/icons/Humanity/places/48/gnome-folder.svg
<dmd> I want to throw together a prototype of the file manager
<dmd> wastrel: Thank you!
<mhall119> you should use icon names, not paths to files, so they will change appropriately with the icon theme
<dmd> oh that does sound like a good idea
<wastrel> /usr/share/icons/Humanity/places/48/stock_folder.svg seems to be the same
<mhall119> I think QML will do the proper icon lookup for you
<dmd> now I need to figure that out
<mhall119> try just using "stock_folder" or something like that for the icon
<mhall119> dmd: see http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html for the standard naming conventions
<dmd> nice
<mhall119> bzoltan: jppiiroi1en: can you guys confirm that QML support this for icons?
<dmd> the toolbars.qml is using "iconSource: Qt.resolvedUrl(filename)" is that about what I should use?
<mhall119> dmd: can you give me a link to that file?
<dmd> it is from the example use app
<dmd> sec
<dmd> /usr/lib/qt-components-ubuntu/demos/Toolbars.qml
<frals> KevinWright, mhall119: the wiki signs me out everytime i get to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps/Clock, if either of you could update the page with the design instead of me i'd be grateful
<KevinWright> frals: I'll take care of it sometime in the next 12-24 hours
<frals> KevinWright: cheers
<mhall119> dmd: ah, those appear to be using images local to the application, not system-wide icons determined by the user's icon theme
<KevinWright> frals: (or maybe less)
<mhall119> frals: have you tried shift-refreshing to see if it's maybe just giving you a cached page?
<frals> mhall119: yeah, no luck still :(
<mhall119> bzoltan: jppiiroi1en: Mirv: can someone help frals with this?
<mhall119> frals: those guys are all UTC+1 or +2 I think, so they may not be online anymore
<frals> no worries, ill try again tomorrow - could be some delay because i had to approve wiki access to my account info or some crap on my end -- have to go afk now
<frals> gnite all
<dmd> mhall119: I am very new to qml. How should I get the folder icon through the proper method?
<mhall119> dmd: I'm very new to QML as well, so I don't know exactly
<dmd> ok then hacky solution time: copy&paste
<dmd> I must say that qml with its json basis is much nicer than android's xml
<ajalkane> dmd: depends on how Ubuntu has implemented image provider. See: http://doc.qt.digia.com/stable/qdeclarativeimageprovider.html
<dmd> ajalkane: thank you
<wastrel> so was that burst of activity a regularly scheduled thing?
<dmd> I think they were having a meeting
<dmd> for the calender and then the calculator
<dmd> oh maybe dmd will not work as a nick
<dmd> does qml have something like css's classes?
<dmd> Is there a way make an element inherit a style? for example margins
<ajalkane> dmd: Ubuntu implements something like CSS styles for QML but I don't know enough about them yet. In traditional QML you create components by composition instead of inheritance
<dmd> sorry inheritance is by most chances going to be the wrong word
<dmd> any idea of any examples for the ubntu styles?
<ajalkane> dmd: see if this gives you some ideas: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/theming-components.html
<dmd> thank you!
<dmd> It looks like there is a lot more on the wiki than I thought
<ajalkane> There's frankly not lot... but what's there is pretty good for getting started.
<wastrel> dmd: what are you writing?
<dmd> I want to try my hand at the file manager
<dmd> so I'm mocking up the ui then I'll hack in basic file navigation
<ajalkane> are you in the file manager team?
<dmd> nope, I have no idea what is going on
<ajalkane> ok, just wondered if anythings going on. Someone doing something is better than nothing happening at all.
<dmd> I contacted Till who was my mentor two years ago asking him about how I could help with ubuntu phone and he pointed me to this chat room
<dmd> I figure before I try to make anything offical I should prove to myself I can get something working
<ajalkane> are you basing the mocks on any suggestions given in the community pages?
<dmd> I want to go from the one in basmic but..
<dmd> I do not think the accordian view of multiple file sources will work well on mobile
<dmd> instead ubuntu has these cool views you can swip between
<dmd> I think those would work better for different locations, like network shares vs local vs sd card
<ajalkane> IMO it's best to start with the bare basics, getting the basics working, and then tackle the harder parts.
<dmd> yeah
<dmd> so far I have mocked in fake folders and fake files
<dmd> I'm mocking in the context menu next
<dmd> KevinWright: how might I go about going a team?
<dmdrummond> dmd: There is a form here http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/#step-get-involved
<dmd> dmdrummond: thank you will fill that out
<nOStahl> hows it going guys
<dmd> everyone appears to be afk, or working
<nOStahl> ah
<nOStahl> me - I'm playing with my new gitlab server
<dmd> nice
<dmd> have a use in mind?
<nOStahl> I'm really REALY liking gitlab so far
<nOStahl> cant wait for ubuntu phone
<nOStahl> wish I did not buy the iPhone 5 last month now haha
<dmd> yeah I can imagine
<dmd> not going to get a port for a little while
<nOStahl> what I really wish is that I could install ubuntu phone on my iPhone 5
<dmd> it is nice hardware
<nOStahl> aye
<dmd> did they get rid of the glass back?
<nOStahl> ya
<dmd> nice
<dmd> I have the nexus 4 and the back is already scratched up. I refuse to use a case
<dmd> no phone should need a case
<dmd> I think they used a glass back since it trains you to grip the sides
<nOStahl> unless you want it to change the look
<nOStahl> I don't use a case on the iPhone 5
<nOStahl> just make sure to keep keys in diff pocket etc
<dmd> yeah I've cleaned out a pocket in my bag
<dmd> only phone and tissue
<nOStahl> gah I'd really like ubuntu phone on this iphone
<dmd> one option that may work in the future is the chinese iphone knockoff
<dmd> at least those have unlocked boot loaders
<nOStahl> aye
<nOStahl> any word on cdma work
<dmd> no idea
<nOStahl> so I had watched the keynote on ubuntu for phones
<nOStahl> they didn't cover, is this going to be where we can dock it and use full blown ubuntu ?
#ubuntu-phone 2013-02-13
<mhall119> nOStahl: that's the plan for high-end phones, yes
<nOStahl> that will be real nice
<nOStahl> can't wait to have a phone that I can dock int a laptop style shell
<nOStahl> or dock into a desktop stand with monitor keyboard and mouse etc
<nOStahl> same device for different formfactors
<nOStahl> even a tablet shell
<dmd> going through the irc logs of the past two weeks it looks like today was this channel's busiest day.
<dmd> mhall119: would it be possible for me to join the file manager team?
<mhall119> dmd: you don't need to be on the team to contribute code
<mhall119> all being on the team does is make you responsible for reviewing and landing merge proposals
<dmd> cool
<dmd> oh ok
<dmd> I have a very crude mockup sort
<dmd> s/sort//
<dmd> no functionality
<dmd> still, who should I talk to about contributing? Will there be a meeting?
<dmd> ah I did not see the blog post: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-coreapps/+announcement/11150
<dmd> good to hear there is no risk of things going undone
<mhall119> dmd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps/DevelopmentGuide talks about how to submit your changes to the project
<dmd> yeah I have it in a launchpad branch under my account but I am not sure if it is proper for me to request a merge with my crude mockup
<dmd> but I do want to
<dmd> could it be merged to a non-mainline branch?
<dmd> sorry I should be triggering your highlight: mhall119
<dmd> mhall119: is javascript or c++ prefered for the coreapps?
<mhall119> dmd: if you think it's ready to be merged into trunk, make an MP, otherwise keep working on it
<mhall119> if it's a mockup, I'd suggest you blog about it, put it on reddit or the Ubuntu App Developers community on G+
<dmd> that is a good idea
<dmd> I'll do that if I can get some functionality in there
<mhall119> btw, once your branch is on Launchpad, other people can branch it and send their own changes back to you
<dmd> true, but I am hoping the file manager team will have something better to work off of
<dmd> If checked the past two weeks of irclogs and the mailing list and I have not seen anything from the file manager team. I have no idea what they are doing
<mhall119> dmd: Kevin Wright is still holding kick-off meetings for the various projects
<dmd> do you have any idea when the file manager team is holding theirs?
<dmd> i've posted the mockup on google+
<mhall119> dmd: no, you'll have to ask Kevin tomorrow (he's on UTC+2 timezone I think)
<comjf> howdy guys! So excited about this project, I started coding today. Just a quick question, is there a better source of documentation other then: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/qml-ubuntu-components0-textfield.html
<comjf> just trying to figure out if TextField has a mouse over signal, or activated signal, and it seems that documentation is incomplete (I suppose because it's still being made haha)
<Andy80> hi
<Andy80> bzoltan, hello :) a couple of things. I've checked out the plugin source code. Before starting to modify anything I'd like to prepare the testing environment properly. Is it already available thta PPA you were talking about with Qt 5.0.1 ? Because I checked the "qt edge" I already have, but there aren't any updates
<bzoltan> Andy80:  hello, the Qt 5.0.1 packages are in the qt5-beta-proper PPA
<bzoltan> Note, that the qtc plugin branch is under development :) so changes come very often
<Andy80> bzoltan, ok, I remove "http://ppa.launchpad.net/canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-beta1/ubuntu" then, right?
<bzoltan> Andy80: yes, an all the packages too from that PPA, and the /opt/qt5 from the PATH in the .bashrc
<Andy80> bzoltan, just finished upgrading :) /opt/qt5/ should be already in my PATH, let me check...
<bzoltan> Andy80: it should be removed
<Andy80> ah
<Andy80> then I remove it :)
<bzoltan> the packages from the qt5proper and qt5-beta-proper install to the correct path
<Andy80> bzoltan, I hope it won't conflict with /home/andrea/bbndk/bbndk-env.sh
<Andy80> that I use for BB10 development
<bzoltan> Andy80:  No, it will not
<bzoltan> Andy80:  but ping me if it does
<Andy80> ok
<Andy80> bzoltan, about the QtCreator source code (because if you want to compile a QtCreator plugin you need to setup a dedicated source folder where you compile the plugin and run that QtCreator istance) can I use the one available in "master" branch of gitorious?
<bzoltan> Andy80:  sure yes
<Andy80> ok, cool
<fcrochik> KevinWright: Hi!
<QtRoS> Hello everybody
<fcrochik> @qtros: are you in the RSS team?
<meetingology> fcrochik: Error: "qtros:" is not a valid command.
<KevinWright> fchrochik: hello
<QtRoS> I think we should become acquainted!
<Walther> Any news? Are we already at "late Feb" enough? :P
<fcrochik> How do we start? Who do we have here from the RSS team?
<QtRoS> Let's wait 17:30 GMT, guys! :)
<KevinWright> fchrochik: The meetup is still in a little bit, at 17:30 GMT
<KevinWright> sorry fcrochik:  The meetup is still in a little bit, at 17:30 GMT
<KevinWright> but feel free to chat anyway!
<QtRoS> I think we should wait for the whole team, and then let each say a few words about yourself
<EuroElessar> in general channel?)
<dmdrummond> frals: was the Clock app meeting today or yesterday?
<frals> dmdrummond: yesterday :)
<dmdrummond> fral: I thought it was today :-(
<frals> dmdrummond: was only me, kuifei and kevin though, so i guess it was a bit confusing which day it was suppose to be
<dmdrummond> frals: I'll have to catch up in the logs.
<frals> dmdrummond: kevin was suppose to send out minutes today (havent checked private mail so maybe he did already)
<frals> or just read the logs yeah
<QtRoS> Will we  test applications on real devices on late phases?
<KevinWright> Hey, hey are any of the E-Mai, app people here?
<EuroElessar> yeah
<pramodxyle> yep...i'm here...
<KevinWright> mhall119: ping!
<AlexOstapenko_> I'm here too
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: hello all!
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: thanks for coming
<pramodxyle1> hi kevin, hi everyone...
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: we should have a short conversation today just to get started
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: maybe what we can do is a short round of intros
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: I can start
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: So thanks again for coming
<QtRoS> E-mail team have meet today?
<KevinWright> QtRoS: yep, welcome
<KevinWright> QtRos: just in time
<QtRoS> No no, I am in RSS team
<KevinWright> QtRoS: ok
<QtRoS> I will come later, 15 min
<KevinWright> right
<QtRoS> Ð ÑÑÐ»Ð°Ð½, ÑÐµÑÑ ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð³Ð¾ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐ° :)
<Ruslan> QtRoS: I can read it
<QtRoS> But we shouldn't speak Russian
<Ruslan> but it's english channel, so please prefer it :)
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: I'm one of the engineering managers at Canonical and here to help with this project
<QtRoS> It will confuse others, sure
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: I also have another colleague mhall119, who might also be here somewhere
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: He too will be one of the people involved with this project
<Ruslan> KevinWright: applitcation development will be done in Ubuntu Desktop only? Would be there any system snapshots for real devices?
<KevinWright> Ruslan: At some point in time there will be, but no dates yet
<Ruslan> KevinWright: would Nokia meego devices be supported or only android-based one?
<KevinWright> Ruslan: You'll need to wait for the public discussions about that. I don't have details.
<Ruslan> KevinWright: ok, I'll wait :)
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: So just quickly about myself and then we can introduce everyone else
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: I've been with Canonical for a little over a year, but using Qt for several years now
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: Which is one of the reasons I am excited about this opportunity
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: Anyone else from the team a current Qt app developer in work or personal projects?
<KevinWright> Ruslan: How about yourself?
<pramodxyle1> i work on kde projects....mainly caligra suite....use Qt a lot...
<KevinWright> pramodxyle: cool
<Ruslan> I'm currently qutIM developer, also hack a bit Qt Build Suite and Qt mainline
<KevinWright> AlexOstapenko_: How about yourself?
<Ruslan> using Qt approximatly for five years
<AlexOstapenko_> I use QML\JS in my personal projects and use Qt\C++ only in urgant cases
<KevinWright> AlexOstapenko_:  excellent
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: So let's keep it short today
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: We'll talk specifics via email and next discussion
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: Has everyone had a chance to see the project resources?
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: the wiki and so forth?
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: And a chance to install the ubuntu-sdk and components?
<pramodxyle1> yep...did check out the wiki....was installing the sdk...
<Ruslan> hm, wiki?
<AlexOstapenko_> yep, I've already installed sdk and ubuntu-components
<KevinWright> Ruslan: Yes, just one second
<Ruslan> sdk is already installed of course and tried
<KevinWright> Rruslin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps
<KevinWright> Ruslan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps
<KevinWright> Ruslan: And https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps/EmailClient
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: Great!
<Ruslan> KevinWright: oh, haven't noticed that it's a wiki :) I've seen it, of course
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: OK, so there are some roughed in project details, but we should still fill in more details
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: Not today, but break down the work items
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: And brainstorm (the fun part!)
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: We can do that in our next meeting
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: And in the meantime via email or individual chats
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: Does anyone have any specific questions I can help answer?
<Ruslan> KevinWright: is the baseline defined already or all libraries/frameworks is an subject of change?
<KevinWright> Ruslan: There will be change but was there something specific you were wondering about?
<KevinWright> Ruslan: Not everything is going to change though! Some things will remain constant
<Ruslan> I've seen the discussion about using c++ in applications in mailing list, so I wonder if it is possible/needed to implement e-mail core as QtQuick2 extension
<KevinWright> Ruslan: We'll be using the Qt framework as much as possible, and specifically focus as much on the declarative approach
<Ruslan> that looks like a bit overhead
<Ruslan> or all technical details is better to discuss in mailing list?
<KevinWright> Ruslan: You can discuss here
<KevinWright> Ruslan: We obviously want the UI to be QML/QtQuick
<KevinWright> Ruslan: And do as much as possible in a declarative way
<KevinWright> Ruslan: As much as it makes sense
<KevinWright> Ruslan: But some things that isn't possible obviously
<QtRoS> All work with network will be done with C++
<bobweaver> Hello there any one been able to get dconf-qt to work on qt5 ?
<Ruslan> KevinWright: thanks, one more question
<frals> sorry for totally crashing your meeting - but what about account management? is it part of email app or a system wide thing?
<KevinWright> Ruslan: Sure
<KevinWright> frals: good question. I'll poke someone and find out
<Ruslan> KevinWright: where all messages/account information is thought to be stored?
<bobweaver> wait there is a meeting going on right now ?  .....
<KevinWright> Ruslan: I think that is the same question as frals
<KevinWright> Ruslan, frals: let me find out the specifics. I think I know the answer but want to onfirm it with someone first.
<KevinWright> onfirm == confirm
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: OK, we are in just the final few minutes of the scheduled talk. Any final thoughts for today? I know it was a bit rushed.
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: We can pick it up again another day and via email
<pramodxyle1> yep...sure...in the next meeting we can probably have specific technical stuff discussed...
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: OK, if not I would like to thank you for this quick intro meeting. As I mentioned we can get into more specific project details in the next discussions
<KevinWright> pramodxyle: yes
<KevinWright> Ruslan, pramodxyle, AlexOstapenko_: OK thanks again everyone. Looking forward to working with you!
<Ruslan> KevinWright: good like :)
<Ruslan> * luck
<AlexOstapenko_> Thank you, Kevin !
<pramodxyle1> KevinWright: thanks kevin...:) thanks everyone...!
<KevinWright> Hey, are the RSS App people here too?
<Ruslan> he he, the queue :)
<AlexOstapenko_> :)
<KevinWright> Ruslan: yep, back to back :)
<QtRoS> I am in RSS team
<KevinWright> QtRoS: Hi!
<QtRoS> KevinWright: Hello Kevin
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: Thanks for coming
<KevinWright> Anyone else for the RSS App talk?
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: Maybe you saw the previous thread for the Email client
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: I asked if everyone saw the resources
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: And intalled Qt5 + Ubuntu components
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: Did everything go OK with those?
<QtRoS> My name is Roman, I am from Russia, Qt developer about 4 years, QML experience about 1.5 years, already tried toolkit and partially ported MeeGo app.
<QtRoS> KevinWright: so all is ok ;)
<KevinWright> QtRoS: Cool!
<KevinWright> QtRoS: VladimirMoolle is just joining us
<KevinWright> QtRoS: thanks for the quick intro
<VladimirMoolle> yep, I'm here
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: I'll do my intro now too
<QtRoS> KevinWright: yep
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: So I joined Canonical about a year ago, but have been with Qt technology for several years now, including my time at Nokia
<VladimirMoolle> my intro is short: I'm interested in harcore QML practice
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: I'm excited to be able to use QML/QtQuick targeting mobile devices again
<VladimirMoolle> har[d]core :)
<KevinWright> VladimirMoolle: you're in the right place then!
<VladimirMoolle> well, I was hoping to try Qt5 on Nexus7
<VladimirMoolle> :)
<KevinWright> VladimirMoolle: Maybe you can tell us about yourself a bit. Do you use Qt and QML in everyday life?
<QtRoS> It's cool, rly cool!
<VladimirMoolle> until found out that  flashing roms could irrevertibly hard-brick the device
<QtRoS> VladimirMoolle: where are you from? :)
<VladimirMoolle> well, I'm telecommuting as a contractor to an US-based firm
<VladimirMoolle> (I'm from Saint Petersburg)
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: I should practise Russian maybe!
<nOStahl> those russian programers are pretty good!
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: (I don't actually know any Russian)
<QtRoS> nOStahl: thx! )
<VladimirMoolle> [esp when they hit the Ballmer peak, hehe]
<VladimirMoolle> the main technology here is Qt (and QMLQ)
<VladimirMoolle> (QML)
<QtRoS> KevinWright: I will teach you in free time!)
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: So today I just wanted a chance to meet quickly and have an intro. Plus wondering if there were project questions I can answer before more formal discussions and coding starts.
<KevinWright> QtRoS: thanks!
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: We can talk about the project work details in the next meeting, including planning work items and so forth
<VladimirMoolle> I'm currently involved in writing in-depth documentation on QML (primarily for internal use), and thus have time to investigate things in detail
<KevinWright> VladimirMoolle: Cool
<nOStahl> (imagine russian coders in a stone wall leaky basement with a single hanging candescent lightbulb that flickers above them with their workstation made out of random computer components nailed to a wooden board- furiously coding away on a keyboard that is bare buttons with no top cover to hold the keys in)
<nOStahl> russian coders = dedicated determined :P
<VladimirMoolle> damn, if we did handouts, you would see 3/4 of that in my case
<QtRoS> nOStahl: stop it! Or my bear will eat you!
<VladimirMoolle> I'm amidst a room under reconstruction
<VladimirMoolle> and my main box is built from random components
<nOStahl> oh did I mention that russian programers still find time to pump the iron and are built like tanks despite sitting behind a keyboard all hours of the night :P
<VladimirMoolle> (case half-open and 12 yeasr old, etc)
<KevinWright> VladimirMoolle: That sounds like a scene out of the movie Brazil
<bobweaver> what is going on on this channel today ?  I can not find any info about what this is ?
<VladimirMoolle> damn, and my dumbells are 2 meters from me (and the main box has a sport bench instead of a chair)
<bobweaver> not on the fridge ect
<VladimirMoolle> no kidding, guys
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: So we have just a few minutes remaining
<QtRoS> nOStahl: you again right, look at me ) http://cs316629.userapi.com/v316629832/111d/ZunTWe911Q4.jpg
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: Any questions I can answer here, or should we wrap up the official talk early?
<frals> N9 \o/
<VladimirMoolle> ok, I'll try to install the sdk and run the branch I got from bazaar
<KevinWright> VladimirMoolle: Let me know how it goes
<QtRoS> KevinWright: ok, trying too
<VladimirMoolle> btw, Brazil movie (if we speaking of Gilliam's one)
<KevinWright> QtRoS: Alright cool
<VladimirMoolle> is probably my most fav one
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: That's the one
<VladimirMoolle> the uncut edition watches like a (bad) dream
<KevinWright> VladimirMoolle: Your description earlier of your room I imagined the apartment with the broken air con
<VladimirMoolle> I remmoved the inner windows, and have no air coond here
<VladimirMoolle> so I just open the window to get some fresh air from time to time
<KevinWright> VladimirMoolle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dht_3NziwSw
<Ruslan> KevinWright: I'm sorry, when will you be able to answer storage/account info question?
<KevinWright> Ruslan: I'll try to get back to your tomorrow
<Ruslan> KevinWright: next meeting/mail list?
<Ruslan> KevinWright: ok
<KevinWright> Ruslan: I just want to make sure I have the exact specific details
<KevinWright> QtRoS, VladimirMoolle: OK guys thanks for meeting today. Let's wrap up the official meeting and in the next discussion go into more specific project details!
<QtRoS> KevinWright: please, say RSS reader app bzr name
<VladimirMoolle> ok, so, Kebin, yiou'll ping us via mail when the nect meeting is about to happen?
<VladimirMoolle> Ke[v]in, sry
<KevinWright> QtRoS: hold on a second and I'll fetch it
<KevinWright> VladimirMoolle: Yes I'll ping you by mail
<Ruslan> KevinWright: also, are there any suggestions about imap/pop3 library to use or it's implementation have to be written from the scratch?
<KevinWright> QtRoS: You can find many project details here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps/EmailClient
<QtRoS> KevinWright: ubuntu-rssreader-app
<QtRoS> KevinWright: sry for dummy question
<VladimirMoolle> ok, just watched that clip, yeah, DeNiro wanted the main role, but had to play that one :)
<dmd> KevinWright: DO you know when the file manager team is meeting?
<KevinWright> QtRoS: sorry wrong link
<QtRoS> KevinWright: no need already, thx!
<usererror> can someone point me to the mailing list?
<nOStahl> haha QtRoS crazy russian coder still finds time to work out
<usererror> a tad limited on my searching abilities atm
<dmd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps/DevelopmentGuide
<dmd> that page has most of the useful data like mailing lists
<dmd> then there are irc logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/13/%23ubuntu-phone.html
<usererror> :)
<usererror> very cool
<usererror> didn't know there were the irc logs
<dmd> yeah but it turns out this channel was dead upto yesterday
<dmd> I went through past two weeks of logs and nothing interesting
<dmd> yesterday's log does have the clock and calender meeting though
<KevinWright> dmd : Yes I think it started yesterday
<bobweaver> bzoltan,  do you know if there is any plains to port dconf-qt to qt5  or box2d or tiles or amy of the qmlarcade stuff ?
<usererror> yeah I have had this channel open for quite a while, and all the activity seemed to start up yesterday morning or so
<dmd> KevinWright: any idea when the file manager team is meeting?
<VladimirMoolle> n0Stahl >> e never forget about working out here, and I must say, I'm somehat bulkier (cause older and had more time to train :) :) )
<VladimirMoolle> [w]e
<KevinWright> dmd: let's talk in the private channel a moment
<dmd> err, I'm new to irssi.
<dmd> Is there a private channel already open?
<KevinWright> dmd: I pinged you there
<VladimirMoolle> click on a person's name for that
<KevinWright> dmd: that's ok
<QtRoS> KevinWright: Thank you for meeting! Good bye! I am awaiting email with new details!
<KevinWright> QtRoS: thanks again
<bobweaver> dosent matter what I say as I am not sure that you can see this.  But also wondering about the status of  Ub1 in the components
<Riussi_> KevinWright: sorry I missed the clock-app meeting yesterday, I thought it was today ;)
<KevinWright> Riussi_: No problem at all
<bobweaver> watch this I will make all them apps in a day
<bobweaver> think I am messing around watch and see what happens
<dmd> READY, SET, GO!
<dmd> but to be fair I do not think leaving the coreapps to the comunnity is a cost or effort saving tactic
<dmd> I think they want to bootstrap the community with competent developers
<bobweaver> email app now has gmail plugin woops
<dmd> oops?
<bobweaver> you all have used the qml automotive  playgtound before ?
<bobweaver> playground
<bobweaver> http://qt-project.org/wiki/In-vehicle_Infotainment_Demo
<dmd> isn't that old and from qml1?
<bobweaver> not hard to port
<bobweaver> find . -name '*.qml' -exec sed -i "s|import\ QtQuick\ 1.0|mport\ QtQuick\ 2.0|g" {} \;
<bobweaver> er wrong place
<mhall119> handy command though :)
<dmd> yeah
<bobweaver> lol now I have a bunch of mport QtQuick 2.0   :/
<mhall119> whoops
<dmd> opos
<dmd> more sed
<mhall119> sed -e 's/^mport/import/' should fix that
<bobweaver> yup
<dmd> "Now you have two problems"
<mhall119> lol
<bobweaver> dang it this compents is so touchey
<bobweaver> warning: Cannot tie this documentation to anything
<bobweaver>     [I found a /*! ... */ comment, but there was no topic command (e.g., '\fn', '\page') in the comment and no function definition following the comment.]
<bobweaver> I will try qt5-beta-proper
<chayin_> ping KevinWright
<bzoltan> bobweaver: I do not have such plans, but it does not mean these should not be ported
<bobweaver> bzoltan,  would be cool can connect to bus stuff IE unity  but I am having troubles with METaQbject :?
<bobweaver> I guess could just make a proxy model ?
<bzoltan>  dmd: just came to my mind... did you know that that best selling File Manager  application for N9 was written in QML, and the developer's name is Juhapekka Piiroinen? :)
<bzoltan> mhall119:  ^
<bobweaver> box2d and tilied would be cool for making 2d games :)
<bobweaver> tiles *
<bobweaver> bzoltan,  if you would like to give tiles and box2d here is a simple mario bros that I hacked up after taking 2 different marios and making them one (needs alot of work but is good example )    https://code.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/+junk/mario_mockup
<bzoltan> bobweaver:  thanks, I will check it out
<bobweaver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwc4sn_RYZk
<bobweaver> that is video but lag is due to gstreamer
<dmd> bzoltan: nope I did not know that. Is he working on the file manager?
<bzoltan> dmd: no :) he is not... he is working my team on the SDK
<bobweaver> bzoltan,  Question:  what do I use for translations on say something from a XmlRole ? or some other variable ? Thanks :)
<bobweaver> I dont think that qsTr(some.function)
<bobweaver> is going to work
<dmd> bzoltan: oh cool, does he know if QML's javascript is enough for basic file system manipulation or will it require a c++ plugin? Basic functionality is my today's todo task
<ajalkane> dmd: requires C++
<dmd> ajalkane: thank you that saves me some research
<bzoltan> bobweaver: I would check out the QtQuick.XmlListModel
<bobweaver> filelistmodel
<bobweaver> works ok ^
<dmd> cool: https://projects.developer.nokia.com/backuptogo/browser/qml/FileBrowser.qml?rev=12
<bobweaver> bzoltan,  let me make you a example file so you can see what I am talking about
<bzoltan> dmd:  Sure he does know. There is no file system or IO APIs in QML ... but sure it would come handy for many other applications.
<dmd> ok now I am confused. Will filelistmodel be enough to display files?
<bzoltan> bobweaver:  Sure. You can drop a mail to the mailing list ... I am planning to close this day... it is 9pm here :)
<bobweaver> bzoltan,  like this
<bobweaver> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1645584/
<bobweaver> where in the compent there is fileName  how to make that function translatable ? or is that all local stuff
<bobweaver> Line 62 ^^
<dmd> bzoltan: if I would like to suggest a feature (something like android's intent system), where would I do this?
<bobweaver> dmd,  you can use example above if you like change the hard coded (/home/joseph/Music ) part  http://imagebin.org/246600    there is also a Flipen great example of how to use and amake a file manager in qml2 with filelistmodel  in the Garth stuff  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMRln8FJvKc
<bobweaver> https://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qtmultimedia/trees/master/examples/video/qmlvideofx
<dmd> bobweaver: thank you!
<bobweaver> there is a 2 c++ files I think I am not sure
<j-b> Hello,
<j-b> Any documentation about the native libraries allowed for development usage?
<bobweaver> Ok this is not working what happened to the ui components stuff ?
<bobweaver> keeps on removing all my qt4 stuff also I get this error when trying to compile
<bobweaver> /usr/share/qt5/bin/qmake
<bobweaver> sh: 1: /usr/bin/qdoc: not found
<bobweaver> But it is installed
<bobweaver> I have tried using both the stagging and the reg ppa and I get dep issues so I override and still nothing
<bobweaver> I have tried to package it up myself and tried 4 different versions of qmake
<bobweaver> still nothing
<bobweaver> see http://imagebin.org/246610
<dmd2> your qdoc is missing?
<bobweaver> I have tried both proper and beta proper
<dmd2> what does find / -name qdoc
<dmd2> find?
<bobweaver> dmd,  naw it is there it is make file or something
<bobweaver> whereis even finds it
<dmd2> oh well I really did not have an idea in the first place
<bobweaver> I am updating and upgrading maybe there is something that I am missing
<dmd2> so it is not a problem with qdoc?
<wastrel> my one says /opt/qt5/bin/qdoc
<dmd2> I don't know, if you forced an install things will be odd
<bobweaver> I do know that it just removed all my qml4 stuff. Not to happy about that
<ajalkane> If /usr/bin/qdoc is not found it's pretty clear that's the problem. Check permissions at least
<dmd2> wastrel: I think that was the old install location before the "proper" ppa
<wastrel> i just followed the instructions on the site
<dmd2> yeah it through me for a loop
<ajalkane> Also check the the script file where that command is called
<dmd2> they changed the instructions without any fan-fair
<dmd2> thus all the online stackoverflow help is outdated and a bit dangerous
<bobweaver> yeah I got like 3 of them installed all not under /usr/bin lol
<wastrel> i seem to also have /usr/bin/qdoc
<bobweaver> /usr/share/qt5/5.0.0-rc1/gcc/bin/qdoc /opt/qt5/5.0.0-rc1/gcc/bin/qdoc  /opt/qt5beta/bin/qdoc /opt/qt5/bin/qdoc /opt/Qt5.0.1/5.0.1/gcc/bin/qdoc
<dmd2> is the "proper" ppa install throwing errors?
<bobweaver> both the proper and betaproper (alsio 12.04 32bit if helps)
<dmd2> I had the /opt/qt5 dirctory before I upgraded to proper
<dmd2> which install did you force?
<bobweaver>  /opt/Qt5.0.1/blah/blah/qmake
<bobweaver> that is the one that I am trying to install to
<bobweaver> but I have tried all others also
<dmd2> you're installing through apt-get right?
<bobweaver> yeah but it was not working so I tried to compile
<bobweaver> dep issues
<dmd2> saw the stackoverflow awnser?
<bobweaver> Nope
<dmd2> ok, there was one so question that suggested compiling. I almost did it but I am glad I stoped since the ppa does work
<dmd2> I'm on 12.04 32bit as well
<dmd2> I do not know of a solution but I would try to uninstall the compiled version
<bobweaver> Oo @ bashrc to see if I have anything set that is calling qt5beta
<dmd2> ah yeah you might
<bobweaver> nothing just debian packaging stuff :/
<daliusd> Hi!
<bobweaver> ok everything is updated and upgraded. Iam sad that I lost qmlviewer for qt4 and all the rest of that stuff but I am going to reboot to see if that fixs it thanks for all the help you all are wonderfull
<daliusd> quick question: qml:10:1: MainView is not a type
<daliusd> what I have done wrong?
<daliusd> I have followed those instructions to install qt5 http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/#step-get-toolkit
<mhall119> KevinWright: http://design.ubuntu.com/apps has just been posted
<daliusd> CurrencyConverter sample is working thus I conclude that pppa is outdated
<KevinWright> mhall119: Cool!
<bobweaver> Bad bad bad bad news
<bobweaver> it bereaks unity 2d
<bobweaver> breaks *
<bobweaver> proper beta  ppa that is
<bobweaver> unity-2d-shell: symbol lookup error: /usr/local/lib/libdconf-qt.so.0: undefined symbol: dconf_dbus_client_new
<dpm> daliusd, bobweaver, try the "Migration: from the Qt 5 Beta 1 to Qt 5.0" instructions on http://pad.ubuntu.com/BwVVfCSYEv
<bobweaver> thanks dpm
<daliusd> Either you have not been granted access to this resource or your entitlement has timed out. Please try again.
<dpm> bobweaver, on that new ppa there is also a Qt5 package for Qt4 compatibility, so you should be able to run qmlviewer too. But I haven't tested it myself, as the focus for the toolkit is Qt5 + QtQuick 2 (i.e. qmlscene)
<dpm> let me find out the name of the package...
<bobweaver> I am going to try to purge dconf-qt and re-install
<bobweaver> I think that is what is messing up unity 2d
<bobweaver> but yeah it removed qmlviewer4
<dpm> daliusd, weird. In any case, until I publish it in a more permanent location, I've put it here for you: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1645979/
<daliusd> dpm, thanks - let me try it
<bobweaver> yeah I fixed it. It was crazy tools that I was compiling last night :/
<bobweaver> libdconf-qt-dev
<bobweaver> trying to port to qt5 ^^
<bobweaver> yeah it removed things like qt-designer and all that stuff from qt4 :/
 * bobweaver is sad 
<bobweaver> again this is the beta proper ppa
 * daliusd is sad too
<daliusd> now qt components are not found at all :-)
<daliusd> *Ubuntu Components
<daliusd> OK. I have not even used beta1 :-)
<daliusd> Really MainView is documented but not available through ppa
<daliusd> dpm, any ideas where MainView is? I wouldn't care but that's in calculator-app template
<dmd2> mhall119: thank you for the design guide!
<dpm> daliusd, it is in the packages of the qt5-proper PPA you migrated to with those instructions
<dpm> brb
<bobweaver> Ok This is kinda I mean real bad it has removed all my qt4 stuff so I have to install so That I can build off qt4 but then I get crazy error when trying to install Ubuntu-sdk  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1646048/
<bobweaver> anyone know how to tell ubuntu-ui-toolkit where you want to install on make ?
<bobweaver> It is installing to /opt/Qt5.0.1/5.0.1/gcc/lib/qt5/qml/Ubuntu/Components/*      and not /opt/Qt5.0.1/5.0.1/gcc/qml/Ubuntu/Components/
<daliusd> dpm, uninstalled everything qt5 related installed again and it is working now. Thanks!
<dpm> daliusd, ah, awesome, great to hear that!
<daliusd> I guess this helped: sudo aptitude remove qtbase
<daliusd> but not sure
<dpm> bobweaver, it shouldn't install in /opt, it should install in /usr, are you sure you are using the latest packages from the qt5-proper PPA?
<bobweaver> No because it Will not work
<bobweaver> So I am compiling
<daliusd> dpm, bobweaver, instructions you have contain information that you should remove old qt from PATH. I think that implies that you must restart terminal as well.
<bobweaver> yeah I did that even restarted machine
<daliusd> maybe the fact that I have not restarted terminal has some meaning as well
<dpm> bobweaver, so you mean compiling the whole stack will be easier than installing the packages? Are you really sure about that?
<bobweaver> dpm,  at this point yeah
<bobweaver> hear me out for a second
<bobweaver> 1)  I *need* qt4 sor some of the work that I do I can not have this ppa remove all my stuff for qt4 (viewer and designer and asststant ect)
<bobweaver> 2)  I keep on getting depends errors when I try to just install via ppa
<daliusd> bobweaver, you can work in VM then maybe
<dpm> indeed, I was going to suggest the same
<dmd2> bobweaver: I still somehow have the qt4 tools isntalled
<bobweaver> 3)  I like to have many different  versions of Qt so that I can install otherthings like Box2s and tiles and everything else
<dpm> can you not use a VM for either your Qt 4 or Qt 5 work?
<bobweaver> I can not I do not have the ram :/
<dmd2> which errors?
<bobweaver> here are errors on trying to install via pp a
<bobweaver> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1646048/
<dpm> bobweaver, if you do not have the ram for a vm, compiling qt5 might also take a while on that machine
<bobweaver> OH I am not compiling qt5
<bobweaver> sorry about all that
<bobweaver> I have qt5.0..1 installed via git and also have beta1 and canonicals beta proper and canonical proper installed
<bobweaver> let me take a screenshot
<dpm> bobweaver, in any case, I'd try to have a word with Mirv when he's online. He packaged Qt 5 + Qt 4 for Ubuntu in the same way as it is in Debian, and it should allow Qt4 and Qt5 coexisting
<dpm> you probably shouldn't have both the beta1 and proper PPAs enabled at the same time
<dpm> that's probably where the problems come
<dmd2> sorry bobweaver I think my internet connection is done
<daliusd> dpm, when maybe "4" must be changed to "5" in upgrade instructions in this line: $ sudo apt-get remove qtcreator qt4-qmlviewer
<bobweaver> http://imagebin.org/246615
<bobweaver> as you can see I have 3 version that are from canonical
<bobweaver> none of them work with ubuntu-ui-toolkit
<daliusd> or maybe not. OK I must go ;-)
<daliusd> Bye
<daliusd> and thanks for help
<dpm> np ;)
<dmd2> down*
<bobweaver> but on the positive side of things I think that I just got it to work on qt5.0.1 which is from there site
<bobweaver> there site = http://qt-project.org/downloads
<dpm> bobweaver, I'd recommend just using the packaged version, with one binary for qt 5 instead of multiple ones. That should also let you install and use Qt4 at the same time. But I think the multiple installations + upstream install might make things a bit more difficult
<bobweaver> no I dont think so
<bobweaver> I think that it removes all things qmlviewer for qt4
<bobweaver> But  \o/
<bobweaver> http://imagebin.org/246617
<bobweaver> it is working after compile \o/
<nOStahl> they are not going to do a kubuntu for phones are they? ughâ¦.
<bobweaver> Kubuntu has been on phone for years
<bobweaver> plasma-mobile
<bobweaver> I think that that all started in like 2009 or something like that
<bobweaver> I was playing with that yesterday needs alot of work
<bobweaver> Ubuntu One any one ? http://imagebin.org/246618
<bobweaver> Question:  is there a list of all things that need to be done ?
<ajalkane> What phone has kubuntu been for years on?
<bobweaver> the code has been out for years (sorry my mistake )
<bobweaver> and it is plasma-mobile
<bobweaver> but I think it started on n900 or something like that
<nOStahl> just checked it out on youtube
<nOStahl> I think ubuntu for phones has a bit more polish to it than plasma-mobile :P
<bobweaver> Oh for sure sure nOStahl
<bobweaver> So anyone know where this golden list is ? :)  mhall119  ^^
<mhall119> what list?
<bobweaver> mhall119,  I thought that I seen something about a clock a email thingy ect
<bobweaver> things that are needed for the phone
<bobweaver> or apps I should say sorry
<mhall119> oh, yes
<mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone/CoreApps
<nOStahl> a nice gitlab app would sure be nice :)
<mhall119> nOStahl: write one
<mhall119> this is by no means a complete list
<bobweaver> Ok I have a couple of these things
<mhall119> it's just the one we want to offer
<bobweaver> youtubr
<nOStahl> Im not much of a coder, but I can conceptualize one for someone else to program up
<bobweaver> facebook twitter and all that stuff
<matlock> so
<matlock> i wanna build my own ubuntu phone
<matlock> how do?
<dmd> matlock: can not
<mhall119> matlock: your own hardware?
<matlock> no no no, software
<matlock> i got an eeepad sl101
<bobweaver> I could make make weather app.  Just need to find a good api. that is what I will work on
<matlock> got ubuntu 11.10 running on it
<bobweaver> thanks mhall119
<matlock> just need a bit more hw support
<mhall119> oh, you want to install it on your own hardware?
<matlock> ya
<mhall119> matlock: the phone code should be released later this month, it's not available right now
<matlock> so can anyone say what kernel it uses or what modules can be pulled to it from android?
<xaxisx> hey #ubuntu-phone, I was wondering whether there are plans to get Ubuntu Phone running on iPhones or Android devices?
<xaxisx> It'd be a great alternative to iOS IMHO
<dmd> xaxisx: that's up to apple
<ajalkane> iOS is closed so I don't see that happening
<dmd> to be more honest: apple will say no
<matlock> lol
<xaxisx> true, but what about through an iPhone jailbreak mechanism?
<dmd> xaxisx: zero chance
<popey> once the source and image is released, if someone else wants to have a go, feel free, but it's not one of our targets
<matlock> man i can't wait
<xaxisx> I see, okay thanks. are the targets just ubuntu hardware at this point.
<xaxisx> ?
<dmd> nope
<dmd> android hardware looks to be their focus
<matlock> galaxy nexus this month according to sources
<ajalkane> xaxisx: you need open bootloader to be able to run other operating systems. iOS has locked bootloader.
<dmd> since it is plentiful and has xda-developers attention
<dmd> ajalkane is 100% right
<xaxisx> ajalkane: ahh okay -- that's too bad. excited to see it on android devices though!
<matlock> yea they did a lot of work getting the eeepad running with ubuntu
<bobweaver> mhall119,  would this work for weather ?  around 30 seconds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMgQpS8F6_o
<mhall119> xaxisx: the plan is to release an image for the Galaxy Nexus
<dmd> then global dominatoin
<mhall119> bobweaver: access denied
<bobweaver> woops
<nOStahl> how about a arm'd break in to apple hq and steal plans to unlock the boot loader :P
<dmd> nOStahl: I'm sure they keep the signing keys in the library.
<xaxisx> haha, arm'd.
<bobweaver> mhall119,  try again  about 30 to 45 seconds in   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMgQpS8F6_o
<bobweaver> edit around 1 minute in jezz I am off today :/
<mhall119> bobweaver: the weather app will be a separate app, not built into the shell
<mhall119> there are designs for it already on the wiki page
<bobweaver> ok
<mhall119> but they can probably use whatever backend code you have for fetching it
<popey> matlock: I'd wait for the release and then have a play with the image and code
<nOStahl> how long do you guys estimate before I can pick up a used android former "bargain free phone" and install ubuntu phone on it
<popey> not something I've considered calculating
<AlanBell> nOStahl: the dev phones are fairly big things, not cheap ones, and the plan is for pre-installed phones not reflashing used ones
<bobweaver> mhall119,  it was using google weather api but they shut it down :(  it is going to be hard to find a weather api that is good and also not pay for
<mhall119> yeah
<bobweaver> If any of you know of one preferable xml that would be cool
<popey> AlanBell: not quite, it's both
<nOStahl> will we be able to re flash used phones?
<popey> for the developer preview image people will be able to flash existing phones for which an image is made available
<bobweaver> I have to go walk dog maybe when I get there will be nice api posted here ?
<popey> but we're expecting community folk to rip it apart and perhaps make Ubuntu Phone OS images for other devices we hadn't targetted
 * bobweaver is wishing upon a star 
<AlanBell> popey: ooh, interesting
<bobweaver> popey,  it si a zip file flash ?
<popey> It'll be released in a usable format, yeah
<nOStahl> how about ubuntu for tablets project is there such a thing in the works?
<AlanBell> popey: is there a target minimum screen resolution yet?
<dmd> bobweaver: I think the weather apps people were talking yesterday about finding an api
<popey> more importantly the source code will be released, so peopl can build for random targets
<popey> AlanBell: pass
 * popey points nOStahl at #ubuntu-tablet and it's quietness
<bobweaver> and use what the source offers ,, thanks dmd, let me know if you know of api
<dmd> I have no idea
<dmd> I no xbmc guys were having issues with apis
<bobweaver> qtmediahub is Great !!
<bobweaver> I know I know I am american (dang proud too) but ... does other places also have zipcodes ?
<bobweaver> like in Europe ?
<dmd> yes but they might be called postal codes
<dmd> and they have a different format
<bobweaver> dmd,  you are in europe ?
<dmd> or it might just be a canadian thing to call postal codes zip codes
<dmd> nope, candad
<dmd> canada*
<bobweaver> you can try this ?
<bobweaver> http://graphical.weather.gov/xml/sample_products/browser_interface/ndfdXMLclient.php?zipCodeList=90210
<bobweaver> but change to your zip
<dmd> graphical.weather.gov/xml/sample_products/browser_interface/ndfdXMLclient.php?zipCodeList=2z3l3
<bobweaver> so take out 90210  and replace with your zip maybe it works ? also for people in england
<dmd> it does not work with canadian zip codes
<bobweaver> er only us
<bobweaver> dang
<bobweaver> Next One !
<bobweaver> lol
<bobweaver> I am looking at this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1305127/free-weather-api but it seems that there is not anything that is like "Paris"  seems like people would not know there lat and long
<dmd> yeah and geo databases are another area frought with restrictions
<dmd> on the plus the phone might be able to get lat/long
<bobweaver> http://api.wunderground.com/auto/wui/geo/GeoLookupXML/index.xml?query=Paris,France
<bobweaver> dmd,  correct I could use qt.location
<dmd> http://www.wunderground.com/weather/api/d/pricing.html
<dmd> max 500 cals per day
<bobweaver> ahh
<popey> bobweaver: why not look at the weather indicator?
<popey> indicator-weather - indicator that displays weather information
<bobweaver> what weather indicator popey  (sorry I just dont know )
<popey> apt-get source indicator-weather
<bobweaver> installing now
<popey> âº
<popey> bin/indicator-weather:        baseurl = 'http://api.geonames.org/getJSON'
<bobweaver> Look at popey  with his huge brain and awesomeness :)
<popey> lol
<bobweaver> I want a airport named  "<stationName>Wahoo Municipal Airport</stationName>"
<comjf> howdy guys!
<comjf> is this an active irc for developer questions about the planned ubuntu phone?
<dmd> yup
<comjf> dmd: awesome, I'm super excited about it, and started on the tutorials for working with QML/QT. I'm more of a scripting guy, but the first tutorial I saw was very well written and understandable!
<comjf> I've found that the docs are a bit bare now though, is there some place I can learn more about QML as it relates to ubuntu itself? Maybe if the phone APIs aren't ready, is the process for apps on ubuntu itself similar?
<dmd> I have no idea
<dmd> I agree the documentation is a bit sparse
<dmd> canonical released the notepad app which appears to be example of best practices
<comjf> oh really? I'll have to look it up
<comjf> Do you have much QT experience?
<dmd> almost none
<comjf> haha so we're in the same boat
<comjf> Does this channel have much chatter? I was on last night for an hour and a half with just crickets
<dmd> yeah after mornings things die
<dmd> this week the coreapps teams have been having meetings. That is where the bulk of the convo occurs.
<dmd> it might improve once everyone gets going on apps
<comjf> is the process open to outside developers. I mean, I doubt I could help that much, but I'm willing to learn and am a Lead QA engineer on my day job
<comjf> so I could help on QA/Bug efforts
<dmd> I'm not on a team but so far everyone has been very welcoming
<dmd> you can fix things and propose for merging with only a regular launchpad account
<comjf> really? I'll have to get one, I'm new to the ubuntu process. Have been using arch lately and it just got to be to much maintance so I moved to ubuntu
<dmd> canonical really likes bazaar
<dmd> and launchpad of course
<dmd> bazaar would be dead if it was not for canonical
<comjf> what is bazaar, a version control system/
<dmd> correct
<comjf> ah
<dmd> its a lot like git
<comjf> great then
<comjf> I love git
<dmd> in fact I bet a few alias would let you use git like bzr
<dmd> the biggest difference I noticed is bzr commit will commit all changes by default
<dmd> thus equivilent to git commit -a
<comjf> ah
<comjf> well honestly I normally do that anyway
<bobweaver> ping mhall119  :)  should I just use gnome/scallable icons for the weather     example:  Image { source : weather.status === "raining" ? "/usr/share/icons/gnome/scallable/weather-showers-symbolic.svg" : more if statements }    I am wondering what set of icons are there for me to use that will be on the phone. Or should I just include ?
<dmd> I do not think qml can use svg
<bobweaver> yeah it can
<dmd> I tried it with my prototype and I hat to use png
<dmd> well then I did something wrong
<bobweaver> you have libsvgqt installe
<bobweaver> installed *
<bobweaver>  libqt5svg5-dev *
<dmd> good chance I do not
<bobweaver> but you are right dmd  pngs are better to use anyway for mem
<comjf> General question about using QML... where does the actual code go? Do I need to define a new type for things like API calls if I want to make an REST API call on button click or something?
<comjf> The tutorial didn't really show control logic but using javascript directly inside the qml
<dmd> someone has said the notepad app has good seperation
<ajalkane> comjf: if you don't see a way to do what you want using JavaScript, then you have to drop into C++
<ajalkane> You can call C++ from QML
<ajalkane> * C++ functions from QML
<comjf> right, as long as they are related to QObject or something
<comjf> ok
<ajalkane> Yes, must be QObject based.
<comjf> is js really fast enough to be the primary go to control logic language?
<ajalkane> But if the target class/library is not QObject-based, it's very trivial to build a thin wrapper around it
<ajalkane> JS is surely fast enough for most needs. Depends what you're aiming to do.
<comjf> well, the first project i have in mind requires me to consume a wsdl to create a service stud for an API library
<dmd> JS is beyond fast enough for most things
<comjf> I can't really find any good JS for that haha
<ajalkane> I'd recommend C++ backend for parsing that WSDL an providing a simple API that is used by QML that builds the UI.
<comjf> I did it in java before using axis2, but I'm assuming c++ has some sort of similar tool, and then like you said, I can make a wrapper class to use that in QML?
<comjf> are their any more complicated examples of a QML ubuntu project that uses a wrapper?
<comjf> there*
<comjf> still learning and craving examples if you know of any good resources haha
<ajalkane> I don't think so, you're better off looking at the generic Qt/QML documentation of how to mix C++/QML code
<comjf> ok
<comjf> and all I need to help contribute to this project is a launchpad account or something?
<dmd> yup
<comjf> do I need a sponsor/
<dmd> nope, the app's team will review the proposed merge
<bobweaver> comjf,  how I learned how to make c++ plugins for qml was ripping apart unity-2
<dmd> so maybe yes, depending on what a sponsor is
<bobweaver> comjf,  how I learned how to make c++ plugins for qml was ripping apart unity-2d *
<bobweaver> everything under <source>/libunity2d/src/*   all plugins
<bobweaver> then if you look at <source>/libunity2d/Unity2d/plugins.cpp you can see how it works :)  that or there is samegame which is also a great example
<comjf> bobweaver: so I can just pull the source apart there... unity is just a QML app with those custom plugins
<comjf> that's pretty awesome
<bobweaver> comjf,  if you like I have a branch of a moded unity 2d
<bobweaver> it has what you are looking for
<comjf> sure, I'm used to github, but I should learn to use launchpad anyway
<comjf> do you have a link
<bobweaver> https://code.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/u2t/dailybuilds
<bobweaver> there is branch
<comjf> awesome
<comjf> and what is the procedure for testing it
<bobweaver> here is ppa  https://launchpad.net/~u2t/+archive/bleedingedge    *must be 12.04 *
<comjf> qmlscene?
<bobweaver> nope because it uses cmake
<comjf> ah
<comjf> it doesn't override anything does it?
<bobweaver> I have a tutorial on youtube
<comjf> unless I do a make install I assume hah
<comjf> and unfortunetly I'm on 12.10
<bobweaver> :(
<bobweaver> here is tutorial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tEknHznw78
<bobweaver> here is a api for mythtv pure qml and javascript http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/u2t/dailybuilds/view/head:/shell/common/VideoInfo.qml
<comjf> it says it's private
<bobweaver> er let me open it up
<comjf> thx
<comjf> are you a core developer on this project?
<bobweaver> I am the lead UI dude
<bobweaver> video is now open
<bobweaver> but that said there where many many people before me that made it happen
<comjf> sweet, I'll check it out!
<bobweaver> u2t that is
<dmd> what is u2t?
<comjf> yeah I'm really excited about the whole idea of desktop convergence and an open phone
<bobweaver> many many people I just took the ubuntu tv code that was out there and massivly altered it
<bobweaver>  " u two d " u2t
<j-b> Any documentation about the native libraries allowed for development usage?
<bobweaver> dmd,  u2t is a fork of Unity 2d
<mhall119> bobweaver: I would say use the available icons if they work for you
<bobweaver> it is middle way between Ubuntu TV and the desktop there is different formfactors
<bobweaver> like a stagging area . all the code thta I wrote for it is all stagging for the new Ubuntu TV that I am making
<bobweaver> me and many others
<comjf> How do you install custom QT things... for instance when I run the notepad-qml after downloading it via the tutorial: module "QtQuick.LocalStorage" is not installed
<bobweaver>  look at the path
<bobweaver> QtQuick.LocalStorage
<dmd> the notepad should be isntalled with the sdk
<bobweaver> comjf,  if you look at the <source dir> of QT you can see that there are some files lots of them the imporant ones are the ones that you are trying to import
<comjf> right... but the example app is giving me that error message meaning my system doesn;t know where that import is
<bobweaver> so all a . is is like a path   like import Ubuntu/Compents would be import Ubuntu.Compents
<bobweaver> yea so you need to find the path
<bobweaver> you can tell qmlscense to use a different import path example       qmlscense -I /path/to/my/plugins
<bobweaver> comjf,  what is output of  locate LocalStorage | grep qt     please use pastebin
<bobweaver> dmd,  u2t https://plus.google.com/104659991254860976283/posts/H5GKRE3ja2w
<comjf> bobweaver: doesn't exist
<comjf> and I just did updatedb
<comjf> all I installed was:  sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-sdk-team/ppa && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install ubuntu-sdk notepad-qml
<comjf> per the developer.ubuntu.com getting started section
<bobweaver> is qtdeclarative5-localstorage-plugin  installed ?
<comjf> it's installing now haha, that's what I needed, the name. Thanks
<bobweaver> np
<bobweaver> comjf,  I myself (who is not the sharpest tool in the shed) install all qtdeclarative*  I love them
<comjf> haha sounds good
<comjf> is that just wrapper classes for C++ APIs?
<bobweaver> esp things like multimedia and shaders and particals and jazz wait there is no jazz silly me
<bobweaver> sometimes or it can be just a bunch of qml files also
<comjf> cool
<bobweaver> you just need to expose anything pragma js libs  C++ java Python ect
<bobweaver> you need plugins for py and java
#ubuntu-phone 2013-02-14
<bobweaver> Qt Jambi and pyslide ect
<comjf> I know python pretty well, I can wrap python in QML?
<bobweaver> like in a Mousearea to call it
<bobweaver> I am not good at py at all clueless :_)
<comjf> haha
<bobweaver> comjf,  there is this . http://qt-project.org/wiki/PySide   But like I said I am clueless about py
<comjf> i'll stick to C++, that seems the default lang
<comjf> and I love to learn
<mhall119> comjf: QML is pretty easy
<mhall119> if you know python, you shouldn't have any trouble learning it
<comjf> mhall119: Awesome. I just wish there was more documentation on the field types
<mhall119> comjf: me too, we're working on improving out docs
<mhall119> our docs
<comjf> mhall119: Like TextField, does it have an 'onhover' or 'onclick' signal
<comjf> mhall119: where can I see the source directly (sorry I'm a complete newb when it comes to this process)
<bobweaver> hover over item and press f1
<bobweaver> hold ctrl then click on things to go to parents
<comjf> No documentation available.
<comjf> is where it brings me
<bobweaver> qtcreator ^^
<bobweaver> TextField Must be Ubuntu-SDK ?
<comjf> yes
<mhall119> comjf: doesn't look like it: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/qml-ubuntu-components0-textfield.html
<mhall119> comjf: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit has the code
<comjf> mhall119: I was just wondering because the design guidelines talk about using TextFields with the label being inside the field as the initial value.. I just want to clear it upon getting focus
<mhall119> comjf: looks like you should use placeholderText: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/qml-ubuntu-components0-textfield.html#placeholderText-prop
<mhall119> then the TextField will probably clear it for you
<comjf> ah, makes sense
<comjf> thanks mate
<comjf> so I generated all my wsdl client c++ classes (finally)... now I need to google how to make a QML wrapper class right?
<comjf> I'm having difficulty figuring out this wsdl thing with c++, since I ready have the client working in java, is there a way to wrap a javaclass into QML?
<comjf> or is java not a supported langauge to use
<mhall119> comjf: I don't think so
<xsacha> hi, i think the email meeting was in here?
<xsacha> i live in a sucky timezone :(
<xsacha> it was 3am in the morning at that time
<mhall119> xsacha: was it today?
<mhall119> xsacha: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/13/%23ubuntu-phone.html is the log
<xsacha> i was in chat the whole time, so i can scroll up and find log. thanks
<Mirv> bobweaver (and others): Qt4 and Qt5 can fully be co-installed. if you have problems, something has not been properly updated from the qt5-proper - it has a new version of both Qt4 and Qt5
<Mirv> (I have Qt4 and Qt5 developmen tools right now here)
<Mirv> the selection of which one - 4 or 5 - is available in default path for qmake, uic, rcc, etc. depends on whether qt5-default or qt4-default is installed. alternatively, see man qtchooser for more possibilities of configuring qtchooser.
<bobweaver> Mirv,  when I go to install anything qt5 from the proper ppa it removes qt4viewer and also other things making it so when I make the choice of qt4 toolkit It says there is no viewer installed so I have to re0install it. It is something in the packaging of qt-ubuntu-components
<bobweaver> I think *
<bobweaver> apt-cache show qtchooser
<bobweaver> Conflicts:qt4-qmlviewer (<= 4:4.8.1-0ubuntu4.4~)
<bobweaver> man qtchooser
<bobweaver> No manual entry for qtchooser
<tehcrs> sup
<bobweaver> Mirv,  sorry it was not installed
<bobweaver> hello tehcrs
<tehcrs> i JUST found out about this and i almost came
<tehcrs> thank you 4chan
<bobweaver> cool tehcrs  welcome to the Ubuntu Phone channel :)
<tehcrs> ;>
<tehcrs> thanks man
<tehcrs> well, im curious.. tehre are actually two different galaxy nexus phones, right?
<popey> bobweaver: you running raring?
<bobweaver> popey,  nope
<bobweaver> 12.04 32bit
<bobweaver> unity-qt does not work in >12.04 So I do not use
<bobweaver> btw popey  I now have all the data for the weather app just need to design it all now
<bobweaver> thanks again for the suggestion for the api. I would have never of know :)
<popey> np
<bobweaver> that si one powerful api
<bobweaver> is *
<bobweaver> huge ammount of data
<bobweaver> amount *
<bobweaver> wikipedia articles  about close towns and history of towns, close populated citys, close street address to query , weather , ect
<bobweaver> kinda stuck at a couple of points because I have no clue how the keyboard is going to work and also no idea about how moving things off the screen will work either
<Mirv> bobweaver: so, you need to apt-get upgrade before trying to install qt5 stuff, or alternatively install qt4-qmlviewer after installing qt5 - the qt4 version in the PPA does not conflict with Qt5
<bobweaver> yeah that is what I did Mirv
<bobweaver> I ended up downloading qt5.0.1 1 day before you packaged
<Mirv> ok then. and the guides suggest installing ubuntu-sdk, which installs qtchooser which guides qt4 developer tools to be upgraded
<bobweaver> so I am using that just compiled the qml plugin
<Mirv> ah right, 12.04, that's a different story
<bobweaver> yeah but it could not beacause of dependenceys
<bobweaver> let me try to find pastie of that
<Mirv> like said on the qt5-proper front page, there is not yet qt4/qt5 devtools co-existing there, since there is no Qt4 version yet patched for 12.04 to use qtchooser
<Mirv> (the first note under "NOTES")
<Mirv> it will come, though
<bobweaver> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1646048/
<Mirv> bobweaver: you don't have the ubuntu-sdk-team ppa, as instructed at http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
<bobweaver> OH .....sorry I missed that part kinda early here
<Mirv> that includes the qt components
<bobweaver> what do you mean apt cache says I do
<tehcrs> so will this work for both galaxy nexus phones or the g4 only?
<tehcrs> n4
<bobweaver> tehcrs,  I have no clue But I do know this . qt works on a lot of different devices. What the backend of the phone is using(this is what I have no clue about) could be tailored for a device.  meaning not sure till we get the code
<bobweaver> it was demoed on a galaxy nexus  not a g4 though
<bobweaver> Mirv,  I would like to thank you though for all the effort and energy that you have been putting into this. You are awesome !!
<tehcrs> well, i can work with that
<tehcrs> thanks ;>
<bobweaver> Mirv,  so you know what this mean ?   error: cannot convert 'const char*' to 'const QByteArrayData* {aka const QArrayData*}' in initialization
<bobweaver> or anyone ^^
<bobweaver> I will ask on qt channel also
<bzoltan1> bobweaver:  I have been reading the logs from yesterday. I would suggest to you too that the best results you can get with the Ubuntu Phone SDK and UI Toolkit if you start with a clean system. Remove  all depricated qt5 packages and builds and PPAs, make a full apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade and just follow the instructions  http://askubuntu.com/questions/254800/how-can-i-update-the-ubuntu-sdk-preview-from-the-qt-5-beta-ppa-to-the
<bobweaver> Hi bzoltan1  I would but everything seems to be working fine now though after I compiled it all
<bzoltan1> bobweaver: Sure, you are free to compile all, but keep in mind that with homebrew Qt libs you are on your own. It is hard if not impossible to support custom built development environment. If I were you I would just install the stock packages from the qt5-proper PPA and purge all other Qt5 stuff. We all use those packages, they are fine.
<bobweaver> bzoltan1,  I guess that I am just use to compiling stuff for things to work. Like I had to on qt4 for alot of libs. That said. I love the fact that you all are packing this all up. It is nice
<tehcrs> i will probably have to root the phone, right?
<bobweaver> bzoltan1,  I can do that with out removing any of my qt4 stuff ?
<bobweaver> bzoltan1,  main concerns are well I will post brb
<bobweaver> /usr/lib/qt4/imports$ ls
<bobweaver> bamf  Box2D  dee  Dee.3  gconf  QConf  Qt  QtDesktop  QtMobility  QtMultimediaKit  QtWebKit  Tiled  Unity2d  uTouch
<bzoltan1> bobweaver: I do not know about your Qt4 stuff... if you use packages from Ubuntu archives than you might need to upgrade few of them. But as it was earlier told ... Qt5 can coexist with Qt4
<bobweaver> bzoltan1,  you mean like making choice on which toolkit one wants to use correct ?
<bobweaver> bzoltan1,  sorry I have only been programming for a little over a year
<bzoltan1> bobweaver: Obviously if you alter your Ubuntu and install hombrew stuff to the system instead of keeping them nicely in a sendbox directory (in your home or in the /opt) than the outcome is unpredictable ...
<bobweaver> 2 1/2 years ago I did not know what linux was
<bobweaver> well maybe 3 years now
<bobweaver> well I knew what it was when I used slax like 12 years ago on a friends computer but that was all I knew that there was slax
<bobweaver> so I guess what I am saying is I am a n00b :)
<bzoltan1> bobweaver: Your milage is not really relevant here. The key is that most of the Ubuntu users, even the experts do not like to alter their system. You want to keep your private stuff away from the  system.
<bobweaver> bzoltan1,  yeah I was thinking that but I wanted to make a game (my 1st one) real bad and read up on qml (because that is all I know) and learned about box2d and tiled both of which are not in Ubuntu Repo
<bobweaver> in fact I could not find ppa anywhere for it
<bobweaver> so I guess that said I would love to upgrade box2d to the qt5 version and also tiled dee Qconf gconf utouch
<bobweaver> oh and bamf
<bobweaver> Until I can  do that I can not move up past 12.04  because I would love my UI for TV and that would be horrible
<bobweaver> I am sure that I will have to hak on NUX and libunity also
<bobweaver> Right now my best working qt5 has these plugins and needs more /opt/Qt5.0.1/5.0.1/gcc/qml$ ls
<bobweaver> Qt  QtDesktop  QtGraphicalEffects  QtMultimedia  QtQuick  QtQuick.2  QtTest  QtWebKit  Ubu
<bobweaver> Ubuntu *
<bobweaver> esp Qt.loacation how to make maps with out it ? well fast maps that is
<bobweaver> or all these would be awesome http://qt-project.org/wiki/Qt-Add-ons-Modules
<bzoltan> bobweaver:  It is up to you. The Qt5 port of the  box2d you better ask from the maintainers. We as Ubuntu will not port it in the near future.
<bobweaver> Yeah that is what I figured. I guess what is the most imporant thing is that I have the things that I need to learn
<bobweaver> Like I would like to learn shaders better and also qt3d stuff
<bzoltan> bobweaver:  and to learn I would suggest you to use stock packages and focus on the subject... you will waste much less time on building your on development environment and you will get much better support from the community
<bobweaver> like the qt3d car demo But I can not even get that to run :(
<bobweaver> bzoltan,  that is a good point that I did not think about all that much.
<bzoltan>  bobweaver:  Also I would go with the simpler QML demos and examples. Check out the basic animations and simpler UI components. Create simple applications and learn how this whole thing works. Much less frustrating :)
<bobweaver> bzoltan,  I know all about states and transtions and behavior on X {NumberAnimation{}}
<bobweaver> bzoltan,  you have a virtual machine with 12.04 ?
<bobweaver> If you do you can look at my work https://launchpad.net/~u2t/+archive/bleedingedge   that ppa is only for 12.04 though
<bobweaver> becuase of libunity and NUX and dee and bamf ect
<bzoltan> bobweaver:  No, I am on 12.10 and soon to upgrade to Raring
<bobweaver> it is nothing but unity-2d but with a ton of extra stuff like switching formfactors or changing launcher position, or anything in dconf that is that lives on the places that the engine listens
<bobweaver> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/u2t/dailybuilds/view/head:/config.h.in
<bobweaver> you can see the bus's that it listens to in that file
<bobweaver> I am sure that the phone also works kinda like this. Well I am not sure. But can not wait to find out
<bobweaver> like     engine->rootContext()->setContextProperty("unity2dConfiguration", &unity2dConfiguration());
<bobweaver> exposing Qconf
<bobweaver> but things That I did write on top of the TV where re-wote the launcher so that it can read lens(simplelauncher) made it so that there are many different render views or dash , added previews, added tvguide via mythtv, added music hinting, added dconf settings in the dash , re-wrote almost the whole TV interface/formfactor (filters rendering type of text ect)
<bobweaver> My idea is once the phone goes public I will take that interface and take everything that I have and tie into one. then take all my qml code and add it to the Ubuntu SDK Kit
<bobweaver> so that there will be import Ubuntu.Compents.TV 0.1
<Jaffa_> KevinWright: File mgr sync up tomorrow is fine for me.
<KevinWright> Jafa_: great!
<KevinWright> Jaffa_: great! Talk to you then
<bobweaver> Maybe someone would like to help me with this.  I can not get data to pass for some reason. so made a function that says find the search query and look it up in api. After user Picks the Picks that Area it should pass a couple thins off to the next function that calls in the weather but it is not passing the info and I am not sure at all what I am doing wrong
<bobweaver> here is branch https://code.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/+junk/ubuntu-weather-sdk
<bobweaver> So I want to save the stuff from the 1st query (name,lat,lng,west,north,east,south) and pass on to the next XmlListModel Api needs north south east and west
<Walther> I remember we had a discussion about this a ~long time ago, but some recent ideas would be nice to hear - any news on the collaboration between ubuntu phone and nexus 7 projects?
<Walther> As in, will the ubuntu phone project parts be merged to the nexus 7 project - at least IMHO it would greatly benefit from that, instead of just being a port of the desktop version with custom repositories
<lcabreza1> hi guys
<lcabreza1> where can i buy an ubuntu phone ? my 9 year phone got busted ..Nokia 5310 XpressMusic
<popey> you can't yet
<lcabreza1> popey: can't wait ...to have one ..
<popey> Me too!
<lcabreza1> popey: i'm watching mark's video ..very interesting ..soon laptops will release pre-installed ubuntu's
<lcabreza1> popey: i don't want to buy another nokia phone ...
<popey> lcabreza1: they already are available in some territories
<popey> (laptops running ubuntu)
<lcabreza1> popey: Me too .....
<lcabreza1> i wonder who's that graphic vendor that Mark's mention ..
<bobweaver> In case anyone is looking at the question that I asked before. I just figured it out W()()T W()()T!
<DanielDressler> nick dmd
<dmd> hello people reading logs
<bobweaver> hey dmd
<dmd> hey bobweaver
<bobweaver> dmd,  I just finshed up the data for the weather app
<bobweaver> now just need a designer
<dmd> who are you pulling from?
<bobweaver> I will make a video and post
<bobweaver> http://api.geonames.org/search?q=Rochester%20NY&maxRows=10&username=bobweaver12345&style=FULL
<bobweaver> which also has a ton of usefull data
<bobweaver> so I query that give the options to the users in boxs then when they click
<dmd> nice
<bobweaver> we get this http://api.geonames.org/weatherXML?north=43.26905&south=43.10332&east=-77.53116&west=-77.70164&username=bobweaver12345
<bobweaver> needs alot of javascript and stuff like changing from c to f  ect
<bobweaver> I will make a video
<wastrel> are there other videos already?
<bobweaver> we should make a ton of apis and push them into the phones kit
<bobweaver> so that way users can be like     import Ubuntu.Compents.API.LastFM 1.0
<bobweaver> ect
<bobweaver> not sure how that would work
<bobweaver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vXuakr87oA
<bobweaver> I wish that these where gimp and someone used qt-exporter :/
<bobweaver> https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/Clock+and+Weather+App
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I am thinking of writing a game for ubuntu-phone, will python be alright to use?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> or should I use c++?
<bobweaver> depends Akiva-Thinkpad  what kinda game ?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: Isometric Tactical game
<bobweaver> what is that ?
<bobweaver> example ?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: Think transit tycoon
<bobweaver> angry birds ?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> but tactical like front mission, or final fantasy tactics
<bobweaver> that is 2d or 3d ?
<bobweaver> ahh
<bobweaver> 2d or 2d ?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> actually, I'll give you a youtube of what I have in mind
<bobweaver> opps
<bobweaver> Great
<bobweaver> thanks
<Akiva-Thinkpad> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGDwJ1nH7HQ
<bobweaver> sweet thanks
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Its my favourite genre, and I imagine, easy to scale the difficulty, create multiplayer, add rpg elements, etc
<bobweaver> Ok there is 2 things that I think that you should look at (I am n00b though only made one buggy game )
<bobweaver> so just to be clear you want it to be 2d
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I figure this is most pragmatic
<bobweaver> If that is the case there is engine already out there that is c++. the phone is based off qml. Hows your qml/qt ?
<dmd> Akiva-Thinkpad said it was isometric so you'd have a fun time making it 3d
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: HA HA!
<bobweaver> Akiva-Thinkpad,  becuase the Phone is using QML I bring this up .  there is something called Box2d and tiles
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: my qml qt is looking for a prodject like this to learn from
<bobweaver> there is a playground that you can look at to get started
<bobweaver> you can use tiled to make map then just javascript to make the coloisions
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Wow, oodles of info.
<bobweaver> http://box2d.org/
<bobweaver> https://launchpad.net/~mapeditor.org/+archive/tiled
<dmd> those are good resources
<bobweaver> http://gitorious.org/qml-box2d
<Akiva-Thinkpad> box2d poses an interesting fork in the road
<ajalkane> That game doesn't seem anything that couldn't be handled by Python + QML... that said I don't know what's the status of Python integration in Ubuntu phone
<Akiva-Thinkpad> whether to make it turn based or more or less, real time.
<bobweaver> http://gitorious.org/qt-qml-demo-playground
<bobweaver> And if you like  I  made a mario also ?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Ha
<Akiva-Thinkpad> for mario, I'd probably just hide snes9x in there, and edit a rom :P
<bobweaver> https://code.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/+junk/mario_mockup
<bobweaver> sorry thought that you could use that to gather Ideads
<bobweaver> ideas*
<dmd> Akiva-Thinkpad: yeah... I don't think that would quite work with the legal issues
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I am really excited for the phone. I hope I can get one in Canada.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: If you own mario, it should be fine
<dmd> we never get anything in canada
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I still own my snes, somewhere
<bobweaver> You can also use pyslide and what not and java if you like
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: We got wind :)
<Akiva-Thinkpad> that was a big improvement
<dmd> Akiva-Thinkpad: If I was nintendo I would be very fine
<dmd> yeah wind / mobilicity is awesome
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I dropped rogers quite quickly
<bobweaver> Akiva-Thinkpad,  what about moment of your Hero ?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: Sorry, I was lamenting all the years I wasted with rogers as a phone provider.
<bobweaver> rogers ?
<bobweaver> <<n00b
<dmd> rogers is a mobile provider in canada
<bobweaver> :>)
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Canadian phone provider.
<bobweaver> ahh I see
<dmd> one of the big three providers
<Akiva-Thinkpad> and they make sugar.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I never got that
<dmd> different company
<dmd> trademarks only apply within a sector
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: They both are red and white
<bobweaver> in canada make sugar ?  must not be cane or must be exported IDK I am sugar n00b
<dmd> http://www.lantic.ca/
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: We just legalized vcr's a year ago.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I picked one up a week ago, its sweet
<dmd> vcr?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Watched "You got mail"
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Oh you must not have one yet. Its the latest thing.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> They take cassete video tapes
<bobweaver> whts a VCR ? lol
<Akiva-Thinkpad> and you can record on them easily.
<dmd> and we legalized them?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Yah
<bobweaver> that is something that I am not a noob at
<dmd> you're joke fell flat a bit
 * bobweaver is making remote for TV for Ubuntu Phone as we talk 
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Blame rick mercer
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: Wow!
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I am not ashamed to call myself an ubuntu zealot
<bobweaver> controls myth tv that is all
<Akiva-Thinkpad> ah
<bobweaver> nothing  crazy but it will work for me
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Wow, tiles is exactly what I need
<bobweaver> but one can control any mythfront end via phone
<Akiva-Thinkpad> written in qt no less :P
<bobweaver> yeah play in the playground
<bobweaver> Akiva-Thinkpad,  you can make a "MAP" in tiled then there is a QML plugin that you can use that reads TMX files
<bobweaver> adds all colistions at points that you add in tiled
<bobweaver> it is called tiles it uses Box2d (more QML) as the Physics Engine
<bobweaver> so you can make your tiles say 48 X 48  then use java script to cut them up
<bobweaver> and when tiles (QML plugin) sees it it tells Box2d to add collision points and what not walls and stuff you know
<bobweaver> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/+junk/mario_mockup/view/head:/platform.js
<bobweaver> check out lines 17 -- 92
<bobweaver> I disabled most of it
<bobweaver> You can also use many differnt layers for it But that is all I know about for making games hope that it helps
<bobweaver> This dudes playground is also fun I would say http://gitorious.org/tan-qml-playground
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: Well, its all a matter of getting things started
<bobweaver> Akiva-Thinkpad, you have made games before ?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: Do you think this should be easy enough to keep ported to Ubuntu Phone and Regular Ubuntu?
<bobweaver> depends there are some things in the way
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: Not at this level. I am looking for an interesting project that will force me to learn.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: Do I have to worry about ARM vs X86?
<bobweaver> No
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Okay, thank g-d
<bobweaver> it will run on wayland if you have the hardware
<Akiva-Thinkpad> ... I thought wayland was not neccessarily going to happen for ubuntu
<Akiva-Thinkpad> they were thinking of scrapping it so they could have an inhouse server
<bobweaver> anything that qt/qml can run on it can too. I would say that you can also package the whole libs in your game if you need to
<Akiva-Thinkpad> ie, one developed by ubuntu, therefore, controlling it better to suit their needs
<bobweaver> I was just saying that you can if need be
<Akiva-Thinkpad> okay
 * bobweaver has no clue what canonical is doing with server 
<dmd> ubuntu phone is not using wayland but that is different from scrapping it
<dmd> my guess is ubuntu phone reuses nokia's server
<dmd> reusing*
<bobweaver> http://qt-project.org/wiki/Category:Devices
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Could be using x too
<dmd> no chance
<Akiva-Thinkpad> who knows~
<dmd> 0 chance
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Well, thats what the linux action show said :P
<dmd> do they have source?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> okay, brian and matt arent exactly programmers
<ajalkane> Umm... Nokia's N9 used X.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Ohhhh, didnt know that
<dmd> nokia's n9 also shipped with meamo v6
<bobweaver> yeah and Qx11ExtraInfo is coming back
<dmd> well bobweaver does know more than me.
<bobweaver> which is great news for me at least.  On A side not page One is Done For Weather App
<bobweaver> http://imagebin.org/246751
<dmd> nice
<dmd> too nice
<dmd> I need to get me stuff done and do something
<dmd> my*
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: Very nice
<dmd> bobweaver: you should post it to the google+ group
<bobweaver> when you press on time it changs from 24 hor to 12 and same with temp but C and F
<dmd> nice
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Ubuntu should come out with an official flashlight app, and forbid their market from producing any more :P
<bobweaver> lol
<dmd> oh yeah, no one has made one of those yet
<ajalkane> Agreed there. I'm always for forbidding stuff
<dmd> does qml have an audio api?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> ajalkane: ha ha
<bobweaver> yeah
<bobweaver> QtMultimedia 5.0 in qt5
<dmd> bobweaver: you should make the first flash light and fart apps
<bobweaver> lol
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I forbid the ubuntu phone from using APK's
<dmd> otherwise the apple fanboys will never take ubuntu phone seriously
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Rubbish
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd:  ha
<Akiva-Thinkpad> What we need, is to copy apple, and make legions of useless trial ware
<Akiva-Thinkpad> that is specifically designed to be annoying.
 * bobweaver needs to make app to sell so that he can by his *** a panda board for my TV 
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I actually really admire the idea that anyone can pay any price, as long as it is above 0
<dmd> I imagine the most profitable plan would be to do some on contract app dev
<bobweaver> +1
<dmd> and nothing says expert like "
<dmd> "first flashlight app maker"
<dmd> "
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Ha ha
<dmd> sorry for the excessive qoutes, hit enter early
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I still have my g1 android
<Akiva-Thinkpad> one thing I wonder
<bobweaver> what do you think would have to turn on camara half way ?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> is if we are using docking
<Akiva-Thinkpad> will our apps have to scale?
<dmd> qml should handle most of that
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Can I run my flashlight app when I dock it to the pc?
<bobweaver> Akiva-Thinkpad,  yeah that is why you make sure that when coding you do math ;)
<bobweaver> like parent.width / 12.2341
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: bobweaver: Well they have already seemed to set standards with pixel density
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I was thinking perhaps it is a binary switch
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Obviously freeciv mobile should be different than freeciv docked
<bobweaver> that was a HUGE mistake that I made when I first started hacking at Ubuntu TV I did not do that and had to re-write a bunch of stuff
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: So the tip is... to do what?
<bobweaver> use math
<bobweaver> or make app then make a simple page that scales things.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I was thinking of spitting on it, but okay
<Akiva-Thinkpad> or shouting at it
<bobweaver> lol
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Do you think Scale and Expo plugins would do well on ubuntu phone?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Expo I could imagine
<bobweaver> I dont know what that is sorry
<bobweaver> dmd,  I have a question that you might be able to give me good feed back on also maybe mhall119  If you look atthis video you can see how things it is kinda going to look. I am at the part where I am "hanging the Icons"  do you think that that the pictures should go left and right based on how strong the wind is blowing for query Item ?
<bobweaver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfrm117Ukr0        TIME:  23:00  give or take a minute
 * dmd watching
<dmd> that could be a cool effect. I think it would match the existing theme
<bobweaver> I wish I knew how the phone handles movement then I could do some damage like games and stuff
<bobweaver> like paddle ball
<bobweaver> or like that game where you have tomove the ball in the maze but can not let it drop in holes
<dmd> those are horible
<dmd> but
<dmd> if you look at some of the puzzle games on android like 7x7 those are fun and addicting
<bobweaver> I was thinking like this game http://recollectionsofplay.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/labyrinth-game1.jpg
<dmd> oh I hate those even more
<dmd> so imporssible
<bobweaver> lol
<bobweaver> or what is that game with the string attached to a tenis ball  and you toss the ball up to try to land in cup
<bobweaver> also bowling would be cool to make when we all get to see the stuff that we will have. It is going to be fun. Turn the ting into a wii like remote
 * bobweaver shuts up and goes back to qmling 
#ubuntu-phone 2013-02-15
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: Heh, that was the game that shipped on the htc dream
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Not bad, but laggy
<Akiva-Thinkpad> and the sound would vibrate its motion detection
<dmd> they shipped a lagy default app?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Meh, android always felt laggy to me
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Never was too hot on it using java, bloated piece of rubbish
<Akiva-Thinkpad> What do you think for an isometric type on a phone?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Staggered, or diamond?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> http://static.allegro.cc/image/cache/e/1/e1569f76e9e145a6033e264bbc1e4cb7.png
<dmd> isn't that more the coordantes system?
<dmd> i'd use staggered since it looks more grid like
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: I am thinking particularly for making the most out of phone realstate
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I assumed staggered
<dmd> then it shouldn't make a difference, you can just have the eccess off screen
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Well of course
<Akiva-Thinkpad> speaking of which, I heard unity is being ported to linux
<dmd> yeah but not the dev tools
<dmd> maybe someday
<Akiva-Thinkpad> oh, so you can not develope with it?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bah
<Akiva-Thinkpad> shucks
<dmd> you need a mac or windows
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Bah, I have xp installed on this machine. I love how today, I don't have to convince myself that linux is better to use. I simply can't stand windows anymore
<dmd> I'm doing a internship at microsoft in 2 months. I'll be using win8 and supporting vista-8, that will be interesting
<dmd> its clear from my resume I am open source, yet they still took me
<dmd> poor microsoft
<j-b> dmd: what are you working on? Are you working at Opentech?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: I watched a google tech talk with the opensource guy at microsoft
<dmd> I'm in sustained engineering, the team maintains exisitng versions of windows
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: It was weird, and he felt weird about it, but to his credit, he has tried to move the company in the right direction.
<dmd> Akiva-Thinkpad: do you know the link? That would be interesting
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: let me try google. Its pretty old by now
<Akiva-Thinkpad> probably 2008
<Akiva-Thinkpad> or maybe it was an open source conference...
<comjf> Akiva-Thinkpad: I was just catching up on the messages for today, and if you're starting a project to learn I'm looking for one to help on
<comjf> Akiva-Thinkpad: I know very little QML though
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: Well this is a project that I am doing to help me learn it as well.
<comjf> Akiva-Thinkpad: nice, do you use github?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: If you like my concept though, maybe you'll have as much fun as I am having. No, just launchpad. I'll throw myself on that tonight though
<comjf> Akiva-Thinkpad: Ah, well I'm working on something right now to learn how to wrap c++ into QML objects, but once you have things set up and an idea let me know. I'd love to work on a project to learn this stuff more. Best way to learn
<Akiva-Thinkpad> https://launchpad.net/~akiva
<comjf> I don't know how launchpad works haha, new to ubuntu, but I have one I think and will figure it out
<comjf> can you add someone?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: No doubt. In short, I could describe my idea as a cross between world of tanks, and front mission 1. With historical models to rely on, the content is already written, and with isometric, it should be a cinche to develope.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: Arch guy?
<comjf> Akiva-Thinkpad: arch yeah, how did you know haha
<dmd> man archies are taking over
<Akiva-Thinkpad> That is all linux is now. Pragmatic folks use ubuntu, Enthuthiast geeks use arch, JPEG lovers use Fedora, and the rest tend to be mmmm
<Akiva-Thinkpad> well specialized.
<dmd> fair
<comjf> dmd: I was ubuntu but left last release with this bug that no one cared about haha: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1002641
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1002641 in compiz (Ubuntu) "after upgrade to 12.04 amd64 Gnome Classic not properly draw second screen" [Low,Confirmed]
<Akiva-Thinkpad> like that bitcoin distro
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: Ah, yah
<Akiva-Thinkpad> That would make one leave ~
<comjf> I spend about a month trying to get dual screens to work, and couldn't
<dmd> yeah but even gnome fallback was not the same
<comjf> I feel that's more then a low priority, but it must be something specific to mysetup or hardware
<dmd> I had to move on, unity has gotten nice
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Yes, unity GROWS on you.
<chriadam> comjf: to expose C++ functionality to QML objects, simply expose the functionality via QObject Q_PROPERTYs and Q_INVOKABLE functions.  See http://doc-snapshot.qt-project.org/qt5-stable/qtqml/qtqml-cppintegration-topic.html for more information.
<chriadam> comjf: dual screens?  Use disper.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I no longer resent my useless super button
<Akiva-Thinkpad> and for that matter, my capslock neither. Colemak has liberated me!
<comjf> chriadam: thanks, I need to figure it out, just started playing with QML yesterday haha. Trying to get my c++ up to snuff first
<dmd> multiple windows of the same app open is still painful though
<comjf> chriadam: I actually haven't tried dual monitors on 12.10 yet, as this is my laptop not primary machine
<Akiva-Thinkpad> that is one thing I have to say that linux does better than anyone else, is, it lets me set my keyboard layout without a headache.
<dmd> my desktop is multimon 12.10
<dmd> no complaints
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: That is good to here
<Akiva-Thinkpad> hear
<comjf> anyone have an opinion of system76 products?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> My laptop is a convertible touch tablet, you know, those thinkpads. It really put into perspective allot of the design choices for ubuntu
<Akiva-Thinkpad> for example, the reason why when you scroll windows, a small little side bar pops up wherever your mouse goes.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: I owned one
<bobweaver> comjf,  I have a little sys76 I like it
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: My lappy, as I found out, was basically a refurbished chinese mobo
<Akiva-Thinkpad> which is fine, I don't expect them to make their own hardware
<comjf> haha yeah... thinking about getting one. Anyone have a recommended system?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> and it is practical for them to just slap a shell on one of their machines
<dmd> my friend just got a thinkpad carbon and he loves it
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: Frankly, I would suggest the thinkpad
<dmd> he is using 12.10 with it
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Really, the carbon??
<dmd> yup
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I was looking at that, seemed interesting. didnt look as durable though
<dmd> razer thin thing
<Akiva-Thinkpad> perhaps I am wrong though
<dmd> my t510 is way too heavy
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Carbon is lousy on the battery I think though
<dmd> if i were to upgrade it would be a carbon or the carbon's successor
<dmd> maybe
<Akiva-Thinkpad> the thinkpad x series still steals the show
<comjf> aren't they pretty bulky
<Akiva-Thinkpad> what is it, like 18 hour battery lifes
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: They are boxy, but durable.
<comjf> yeah
<Akiva-Thinkpad> and the tablet pc is bulkier
<comjf> honestly I really would like something with a decent touchpad
<Akiva-Thinkpad> where as the regular x is like 66 percent the size, and 66 percent the weight.
<comjf> I have to give credit to apple, they have a great touchpad and OS support for it
<comjf> I havent found anyhting even close
<dmd> thinkpads have the trackpoint, 10x better than any trackpad
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: Well the lenovos have the best keyboards in the market. :P
<comjf> dmd: trackpoint?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: The little red nub?
<dmd> yup
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I bought an x60 tablet for 120 a month ago for my main pc, it has no trackpad, just that nub
<Akiva-Thinkpad> its alright, given the age though, mine sometimes gets stuck on wandering
<dmd> a while back my trackpad was deactivating on its own. It took ages for me to notice since I was using the trackpoint without thinking about it
<Akiva-Thinkpad> thinkpads also are spill proof
<dmd> Akiva-Thinkpad: ah I know what you mean
<Akiva-Thinkpad> ha ha
<dmd> you can fix that by tapping the trackpad
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I don't have a trackpad
<Akiva-Thinkpad> x60 is 2006
<dmd> that might be an issue
<Akiva-Thinkpad> core 2 duo though, and battery is a good 4 hours.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> yah
<Akiva-Thinkpad> lol, for 120 off craigslist, it was a pretty good deal
<Akiva-Thinkpad> fyi, you will usually hook anything you want for 1/4th the asking price on craigslist; you just have to be patient enough
<Akiva-Thinkpad> although, offer too little, and some people will send you fake addresses to go to
<dmd> that would be a pain
<comjf> thinkpads look pretty good now that I look at them, though, I was interested in system76 simply because it supports linux so much and it's good for the ecology as a whole
<dmd> all the thinkpads are sent to canonical to get certified
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: well, they do support the linux action show
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I was just mad that they sold out of their cute 13 inch laptops way back
<comjf> yeah and the W530 does look tempting haha
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I also complained yesterday to a lenovo consultant that I could not ship my damn new lenovo if I were to buy one, without windows
<Akiva-Thinkpad> he said they used to do that, but took it away because of the imbeciles calling in and wondering why their computer wasn't working.
<dmd> makes sense
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: I'd say get the x series. The battery is bloody unbeatable
<Akiva-Thinkpad> like, were talking 15 hours +
<comjf> Akiva-Thinkpad: W has More than 20 hours with a 9-cell slice battery
<dmd> the w series is a desktop replacement, I'd skip that
<dmd> you'll adjust to a regular laptop screen without issue
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: any interest in touch capability?
<comjf> I would like a good graphics card is the only thing
<dmd> also skip that
<Akiva-Thinkpad> for games?
<comjf> no, dont like touch
<dmd> intel's are the best on linux
<dmd> I went for a nvidia dedicated on my t510
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Yah, I really have to hand it to intel
<comjf> yes, games (dual boot) and GPU programming
<dmd> regret that, all it does is consume for battery
<Akiva-Thinkpad> they are the first chips that don't lag compiz for me
<Akiva-Thinkpad> and that really ticked me off with nvidia and its post throttling
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: the battery life on the newer i7's have been getting progressively worse too
<Akiva-Thinkpad> especially considering they are not adding cores, and they are only improving performance by like 10 percent per year
<Akiva-Thinkpad> why did amd have to drop the ball so hard?
<dmd> amd is dead, they never stood a chance
<dmd> intel has the fab tech and volume
<dmd> interesting to see what the console business does to amd
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: They were better for awhile
<Akiva-Thinkpad> but ati did not pan out
<dmd> yup
<Akiva-Thinkpad> AMD licensed ARM I heard
<Akiva-Thinkpad> so
<Akiva-Thinkpad> :P
<dmd> arm does not need amd
<dmd> arm is only even more compettive
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Arm could replace x86
<dmd> then perfect
<dmd> but amd is only of use thanks to their access to x86 patents
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: i am not tremendously familiar with the platform, but I understand it is much leaner
<Akiva-Thinkpad> right, they got some 4000 patents I think
<dmd> the key to arm's success is the licensing model
<dmd> any one can fab them
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd:  how is that?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> right
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I am kicking myself now
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I looked into them some time ago
<dmd> arm is pulling the same tactic that won the PC for microsoft
<Akiva-Thinkpad> and thought that it would never happen
<dmd> and is winning mobile for google
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Google has its own problems, specifically, pissing me off with its ads and search results
<Akiva-Thinkpad> and for not porting sketchup
<comjf> about ads, how do I get them off the dash
<comjf> I uninstalled amazon but they are still there
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: I forgot about them to be honest
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: in the next release, they are revamping it
<Akiva-Thinkpad> 12.10 is a "Come along for the ride" release, so I'd just say, wait till april
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I don't know, am I being to harsh in saying that system76 laptop models are bland and boring?
<comjf> haha possibly
<dmd> oh no you didn't!
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I didnt mind my machine, but it didnt take to falling very well
<Akiva-Thinkpad> screen cracked, and yah
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: I was able to get hackintosh running fairly well on it though
<comjf> not much innovation, but its more money to the linux ecosystem
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: Thats how I felt
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: just complain to lenovo about their linux offerings
<Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: Or what about dell?
<comjf> not a fan of del
<Akiva-Thinkpad> They have cleaned up their reputation in manny ways
<comjf> they screwed my years ago
<Akiva-Thinkpad> yah, years ago they were terrible
<Akiva-Thinkpad> avoid samsung btw, their efi may brick your system if you install ubuntu
<comjf> haha ok
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dell to me though is also bland and boring, although those super thin laptops were certainly interesting
<dmd> dell needs more time to prove themselves
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Or a makeover
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Lenovo thinkpads still steal the show for me. BLAND ON PURPOSE, and thus awesome.
<dmd> they are not bland they are timeless
<dmd> timeless tanks
<Akiva-Thinkpad> yep
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Sad that IBM does not head them anymore
<dmd> lenovo has done a fine job
<Akiva-Thinkpad> They have
<Akiva-Thinkpad> except, no linux. And if something goes wrong with my machine, they would reinstall windows.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> And drivers for linux can sometimes be a pain
<Akiva-Thinkpad> mmmm what do you think of this isometric style? http://www.dedoimedo.com/images/games/openttd_ss_3_large.jpg
<dmd> simcity 2000!
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: its openttd
<Akiva-Thinkpad> which btw, is so much fun playing online
<Akiva-Thinkpad> its like starcraft, except business oriented
<dmd> yeah I've played openttd, bit too complex for me
<dmd> but that isometric really reminded me of sim city 200
<dmd> 0
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: learning curve is tough. After reading tutorials though
<Akiva-Thinkpad> it becomes obsessive
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: One thing I am wondering with this style, is can drop off cliffs be implimented
<Akiva-Thinkpad> wait
<Akiva-Thinkpad> yes yes they can,
<Akiva-Thinkpad> rollercoaster tycoon tells me so
<Akiva-Thinkpad> wow, gimp is impossible with a stylus
<Akiva-Thinkpad> and frustrating with its window scheme
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I have never liked that about gimp
<Akiva-Thinkpad> floating windows always get in my way, and then they get lost
<usererror> Akiva-Thinkpad: I think its under the windows menu, you can set it to single-window mode.. as of v 2.8
<usererror> also, I agree.. the floating windows = pain in the butt
<comjf> I'm getting my fingers wet with C++ in order to eventually bind it with QML, but strange issue: my program runs, then gives a seg fault. The funny thing is, if I put a print statement as the line right before return 0, it works, so what;s causing the seg fault?
<isaias> help, please. I just bought my Nexus 7 just so I could get Ubuntu on it. It goes black after showing the Ubuntu booting up
<isaias> I've tried the Installer, and even a manual install using an older version.
<bobweaver> isaias,  what img was that that you tried to install ?
<isaias> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/
<bobweaver> huh kinda late you have tried talking in #ubuntu-arm ?
<isaias> they gave me that one
<bobweaver> I think that there is a nexus 7 room
<bobweaver> I am not sure isaias  I am sure that someone will come along that has one of them
<isaias> i hope they come on soon, lol. i wanted to take it to work xD
<Walther> Is there going to be any merges between Ubuntu Phone and Ubuntu for Nexus 7?
<Walther> At least in my opinion, even if Nexus 7 has a 1280x800 resolution, it could benefit from a more phone-y / tablet-y UI
<Walther> (Oh, and I would be glad to help testing that)
<isaias> Anyone familiar with installing Ubuntu on Nexus 7?
<isaias> I cant seem to get mine working
<popey> isaias: probably best asking in #ubuntu-arm
<isaias> i did. just hoping someone here could answer since no one there is avaible, and its somewhat the same technology :P
<isaias> thank you though :)
<lecrs> im confused
<lecrs> is it tehre already?
<lecrs> :o
<chefsunter> why i get here?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> lecrs: Do a barrel roll
<isaias> anyone here know how to deal with problems when installing ubuntu on a Nexus 7? My screen goes black after the boot logo
<ubuntubhoy> #ubuntu-arm would be your place
<ubuntubhoy> how long have you left it
<ubuntubhoy> first boot takes a little time
<isaias> overnight
<isaias> 08:55 <ogra_> there is a bug in the images atm .... being worked on
<isaias> 08:55 <ogra_> try again on the weekend
<isaias> :(
<isaias> thats from #ubuntu-arm
<darthmuffins> would anyone be interested in the email client supporting the exchange / activesync protocol?
<wastrel> darthmuffins: i think many people would be interested
<darthmuffins> I definitely was hoping so. I love the ubuntu phone platform, and I really would like to see it widely adopted. I think given the slow decline of RIM, some market share is becoming available... maybe
<darthmuffins> and if we could get a good exchange client developed, it would help the platform's acceptance a lot
<Guest48764> hi iam hema , i just love this ubuntu phone , and concept behind this
<Walther> I just had a nice chat at -arm with a dev about the fate of Nexus7. I was given the impression that the "nexus7 ubuntu" project is actually not intended for end users but as a unity developing tool, so I'm kinda starting to hope that the actual Ubuntu Phone...
<Walther> ...OS would support the Nexus 7 as well
<Walther> as in, to get the same UI and UX running on n7 as well
<Guest48764> i like to work it on my galaxy ace plus , is there any way to run it , or idea for running it virtually
<darthmuffins> I concur about nexus 7 support
<darthmuffins> It really has more value if it supports a few form factors, and the flagship google products are a great start
<Guest48764> is there any way running running  ubuntu phone os virtually
<darthmuffins> The apps i've started for uphone i've made sure they can handle responsive layout changes, like from a phone to a tablet
<darthmuffins> there is not so far - its marked 'development' currently, but as I understand it, will be released when its ready
<wastrel> is there a follow on tutorial once i've completed the currency converter tutorial
<Guest48764> okay how to contribute in development team
<wastrel> or is it just, here's the api docs have fun
<wastrel> Guest48764: you can install the sdk
<darthmuffins> @wastrel: thats how I understand it. Although the ubuntu SDK just provides some custom QML classes, I'd recommend the QML tutorials if you want more info:
<meetingology> darthmuffins: Error: "wastrel:" is not a valid command.
<darthmuffins> http://doc.qt.digia.com/stable/qml-tutorial.html
<wastrel> thanks
<darthmuffins> guest# - the official dev teams are closed, you can make patches and submit branches though
<darthmuffins> wastrel: also, I'd highly recommend learning how to make your own QML classes inside of C++ (using Qt) if you're doing performance intensive applications
<Guest48764> @darthmuffins : thanks , since iam new to  this , where i can see the bug list , and how to start??
<meetingology> Guest48764: Error: "darthmuffins" is not a valid command.
<darthmuffins> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
<darthmuffins> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-coreapps
<wastrel> darthmuffins: i would have to learn C++ first
<darthmuffins> those are great places to get started but be warned: the main source for uPhone has not been released yet
<darthmuffins> most of the bzr repos are just placeholders, and there are no bugs reported that mean anything yet
<darthmuffins> wastrel: lol no worries, just a suggestion, since QML is powerful, but limited
<wastrel> i've got some C background but never used C++
<darthmuffins> well in 5 seconds:
<darthmuffins> - Its easy to make syntactically valid C++ if you know C
<darthmuffins> - Designing good C++ code will take you a while
<darthmuffins> - The Qt tutorials are excellent if you just want to hack away underneath QML
<wastrel> suite
<wastrel> tyvm you're my new favourite
<darthmuffins> haha np
<darthmuffins> i'm now going to be on here a lot, always as 'darthmuffins'
<isaias> hey. any way I can look at the code for anything? xD I just want to see how things are put together. (teaching myself programming)
<darthmuffins> isaias: anything specific?
<isaias> not really. I just want to see how its all put together, even though I wont understand much of it, lol
<wastrel> isaias: did you do the currency converter tutorial?
<darthmuffins> understandable. be aware the source code has not been released by the canonical 'skunkworks' team yet
<isaias> wastrel: never heard of it
<darthmuffins> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
<darthmuffins> learn QML as well for that
<darthmuffins> and javascript
<isaias> so Ubuntu phone uses QML and Javascript?
<darthmuffins> yeah
<darthmuffins> its mainly Qt based
<darthmuffins> (obviously there is a native renderer, but they haven't released details about it yet)
<NickCell> hi all, Ubuntu for phone will have the same security than Ubuntu for PCs ???
<isaias> darthmuffins: hehehe, thanks.
<Ruslan> darthmuffins: what exactly can you provide for extended email support? do you have library/app/ideas?
<darthmuffins> rusian: I can provide a github account where I will be doing development (its quite barren at the moment)
<darthmuffins> my company intends to provide an exchange client for ubuntu phone. whether we provide it as a standalone application, integrate it with the existing email client, etc has not been decided yet.
<darthmuffins> https://github.com/veridianenterprises
<wastrel> activesync is what mobile devices typically support afaik
<wastrel> versus mapi, correct?
<darthmuffins> correct
<wastrel> ja
<wastrel> i use davmail on my linux to get my exchange mail
<wastrel> it is not bad
<wastrel> java iirc
<darthmuffins> cool, thanks for the reference
<darthmuffins> I'll take a look at it
<wastrel> yw
<NickCell> any reference about ubuntu_phone security ??
<wastrel> NickCell: it's early days, i don't know that there's much info about anything yet
<darthmuffins> nick: more specifically... what?
<wastrel> much less specifics about specific
<wastrel> i've read there's nothing like android intents currently but maybe in the future
<darthmuffins> it depends on what you mean by 'security'
<NickCell> So, the security will be the same than Ubuntu for PCs, for example, with root account ??
<darthmuffins> yep, based on a very similar kernel to the upstream android one
<NickCell> ok.
<mhall119> Hi guys, more core apps mockups have posted, this time from Canonical's Design Team: http://design.canonical.com/2013/02/app-patterns-applied-core-utilities-for-ubuntu-on-phones/
<darthmuffins> thanks!
<Svenny> any official release date for the phone?
<darthmuffins> Mark Shuttleworth has said a few times he's planning on Oct '13
<darthmuffins> (for a finished product)
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Heh, I am having a great time planning this game
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I think it will be a great hit, and pretty straightforward to program assuming I can get a decent isometric engine
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I am thinking I will call it "World of Tactics"
<darthmuffins> are there no iso engines for linux? (idk much about the game industry)
<darthmuffins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible_Isometric_Free_Engine
<darthmuffins> (warning: might be off topic for this, sorry)
<wastrel> is it called "grumpy avians"
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: All I want is the capabilities of the Rollercoaster tycoon terrain, ie, slopes and drop off cliffs. The source code for one of these should not be too hard to find. Openttd after all is all scratch
<wastrel> oh nvm
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: I was looking at that, I havn't decided what I want to go with yet
<darthmuffins> i got you. I think games will be very important for the success of the uphone, so I'm glad we've got some devs
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I am just right now trying to define the rules of the game
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Uphone
<Akiva-Thinkpad> heh
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Umake that up?
<darthmuffins> very encouraging. I really think a successful app marketplace with premium games will help vault it into mainstream, hopefully more sales numbers than the USC
<darthmuffins> uPhone... lol
<darthmuffins> yeah, not like someone else probably hasn't called it that tho
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Well it might be good branding
<Akiva-Thinkpad> better than calling it an iphone or android "Killer"
<darthmuffins> yeah, I'm going to keep calling it the uPhone
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Calling something  "Killer" is usually indicative of wishful thinking
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: What about, "The Shuttleworth"
<darthmuffins> lol
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Hey, let me grab my shuttleworth, and dock on to your computer
<darthmuffins> while pretty awesome sounding, i feel like that wouldn't help the platform
<Akiva-Thinkpad> anyways, my game is going to be a cross between World of tanks and Front Mission. I think I will make it partly turn based in order to compensate for the phone.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Ubuntu is really strange branding. Its memorable, but it doesnt roll off the tongue.
<darthmuffins> cool. QML and js?
<darthmuffins> avkiva: I sort of agree. I like the name, but it does have drawbacks to the masses, imo
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Mmmm, I'll probably put it in python first, and then convert it appropriately.
<darthmuffins> uPhone is cool though
<darthmuffins> you'll have to look into how, the ubuntu sdk only provides easy rendering using their QML classes, but we really just need to have a look at the full source before getting a good idea
<Akiva-Thinkpad> uphone is though, unoriginal. The letter has been done to death. First the e's, then the i's, and now the u's?
<darthmuffins> haha i know, but its also:
<darthmuffins> clear
<darthmuffins> concise
<darthmuffins> simple
<Akiva-Thinkpad> True,
<darthmuffins> idk, its just what i've been calling it to type less lol
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Linux was a good choice for the os name
<darthmuffins> affirmative
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I forget what Linus wanted to call it, but I remember it being really dumb
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Slackware I think remains the coolest distro name. Too bad ubuntu isnt using that as its platform
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Let me grab my slacks
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Slackphone
<darthmuffins> slackware is cool
<darthmuffins> if up to me, i'd keep it branded ubuntu something though, since the whole point is to provide a desktop OS in the mobile device, and ubuntu has a very strong desktop OS following already
<Akiva-Thinkpad> The animals were a cool idea
<Akiva-Thinkpad> they rejected my idea for J though, "Jumping J. Edgar Hoover"
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Jackalope though was pretty legendary
<darthmuffins> yeah, major awesome points for jackalope
<nOStahl> wonder how this project will spur off ubuntu for tablets
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I was thinking of making my app good for ubuntu desktop and phone, and when you enter a tourny, you could be like; Mobile users vs Desktop users :D
<Akiva-Thinkpad> nOStahl: Ubuntu for tablets is... well, ubuntu.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Go complain to lenovo that they don't ship ubuntu
<nOStahl> not exactly
<darthmuffins> nope, i think for tablets it will mimic phones
<darthmuffins> its a touch interface, and that is the major divider between desktop and mobile
<darthmuffins> its a fundamentally different way of interacting
<nOStahl> the interface is not touch friendly with straight ubuntu
<Akiva-Thinkpad> They are the only decent hardware company  with class.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> nOStahl: i am using a thinkpad tablet laptop
<Akiva-Thinkpad> it works well
<Akiva-Thinkpad> the stylus and the inability to do input is a bit unfortunate, but time will come when this is available
<nOStahl> too bad they don't have express card slots in tablets
<nOStahl> could put that express card slot mouse in there
<nOStahl> and be off and running for the day heh
<isaias> hello
<isaias> will the phone support flash? :D
<isaias> i mean, anything is possible with open source, but since its a phone, and no phone supports it...
<Ruslan> isaias: why do you need it?
<darthmuffins> no reason to: see HTML5
<isaias> some websites
<darthmuffins> those websites (i promise) are all moving to HTML5
<darthmuffins> imo, its a dying tech
<isaias> ok
<darthmuffins> sorry :/
<isaias> thats alright, lol
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Anyways, anyone interested in what I have in mind for my game? As said, it will be a cross between this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbWrscGyqIg and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGDwJ1nH7HQ
<darthmuffins> my $0.02:
<darthmuffins> I don't like turn based games
<darthmuffins> I wouldn't mind helping you write the engine
<darthmuffins> I'm not into playing games as much any more
<Akiva-Thinkpad> The content is very natural, given that the models will be based on historical tanks
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: I am thinking that it would be...mmmm, a quasi turn based. Rather
<Akiva-Thinkpad> i was thinking that you issue orders to active units, they move to where you want, and you are notified when something comes up
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I was hoping that the way I set up the isometrics, that it will act mostly as an easy means for creating waypoints,
<isaias> FF Tactics, with tanks?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Yah, more or less
<isaias> cool
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Right now, I am just building my roadmap on a google spreadsheet
<darthmuffins> its a lot to consider, game engines are complex. want to start a discussion else where than the phone channel for this? I've done a simple game engine before, i could probably help out some
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: This should be pretty straightforward insolong as I outline the classes and functions that need to be built, and keep the roadmap updated
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Also the graphics should be easy given that it is historical models; allot can be copy, rendered, and pasta'd
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: The unity engine caught my eye, but I am told that no dev tools exist for it yet on linux
<darthmuffins> true, but we still don't know much about how the uPhone renders. QML is straightforward with respect to its openGL contexts, but still lots to think about
<Akiva-Thinkpad> :(
<darthmuffins> that is correct
<darthmuffins> more important than designing classes, a higher level information architecture should be considered, imo
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: What do you mean?
<darthmuffins> ie: where does data come from and go to in your engine. what provides what data. how does an event get passed on
<darthmuffins> like a flowchart. that's what i've always started with (after defining goals and design criteria)
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Yes yes, that all will get sorted out before I start, well the obvious things anyways.
<darthmuffins> sweet
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I love flowcharts
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Well, I like heirarchichal spreadsheets better
<darthmuffins> both are good
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Flowcharts are a pain to setup sometimes :P
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Dammit rhombus, fit!
<darthmuffins> true... but give google draw a try
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Is it multi editable?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> well I guess it must be...
<darthmuffins> multi editable?
<darthmuffins> multiuser->yes
<Akiva-Thinkpad> What is a good word for "Completed to satisfaction, but could still be worked on and improved"
<darthmuffins> 'acceptable'
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Works
<wastrel> i am thirsty
<darthmuffins> ... for ubuntu?
<wastrel> i suppose
<Akiva-Thinkpad> wastrel: Do a barrel roll
<nOStahl> so ubuntu for phones - when docked it boots full blown ubuntu desktop?
<mhall119> nOStahl: that's the plan
<darthmuffins> idk if boots would be correct, but thats how I understand it
<mhall119> for high-end phones anyway
<mhall119> and yeah, it won't "boot" it'll just switch the shells
<darthmuffins> right
<nOStahl> mhall119: is there a possibility of doing it without it docked as well
<mhall119> nOStahl: using the desktop shell on a phone screen?
<nOStahl> i.e. with stylus or whatever is needed but ya
<darthmuffins> so many cool potentials here... we will find out a lot more when the source is released
<mhall119> nOStahl: the phone shell will be much more usable on a phone screen
<mhall119> even with a stylus
<nOStahl> what if there is no app for a certain function yet
<nOStahl> and I want to check a server monitor etc
<darthmuffins> it will have a terminal...
<darthmuffins> cmnd line FTW
<nOStahl> yes but just examples of real world use cases :)
<mhall119> nOStahl: all that would be different is the Unity shell
<mhall119> if you don't have an app, putting it into desktop mode won't change anything
<mhall119> it won't be different version of Ubuntu running the Phone UI and the docked desktop UI
<nOStahl> I guess what I'm thinking is that it could be a scaled screen of a normal desktop i.e. for resolution purposes
<darthmuffins> I think he's asking if you have a desktop app, and you've installed in when your phone is in desktop mode, then you try to run it in phone mode. what happens if it doesn't have a specific phone ui?
<nOStahl> aye I'm not still clear on the way it all operates :)
<mhall119> that's not really defined yet, but I don't think there would be a difference running it on the phone screen with the phone UI compared to the desktop UI also on the phone's screen
<mhall119> so basically if the app will run on the phone's screen, it'll do so just as well with the phone shell
<nOStahl> will there be screen scaling or scrolling with the phone ui
<nOStahl> so if I load a desktop app that needs 768 by 1024 to see the whole program etc
<wastrel> i'm going to write a phone app for ubuntu
<mhall119> nOStahl: I don't think that's been determined yet
<mhall119> wastrel: what kind?
<Ruslan> oh, btw, are there any plans for fb2/epub reader?
<Ruslan> or I would be forced to port FBReader again?
<darthmuffins> i'm working on an exchange client for uPhone
<mhall119> Ruslan: there aren't any plans for an e-book reader that I know of yet, an FBReader port would be nice though, I love FBReader
<nOStahl> darthmuffins: I have been running a zimbra server for several years now.
<Ruslan> mhall119: I'm able to port an c++ version, as I've already done for MeeGo Harmattan
<darthmuffins> yeah, fbreader wouldbe great
<Ruslan> but I wonder, is it possible to use Okular instead?
<darthmuffins> i like the exchange protocol, very convenient at the user lever
<wastrel> mhall119: probably a very bad one
<mhall119> Ruslan: I don't know
<Ruslan> or it leak Qt5 support?
<mhall119> Ruslan: there is full Qt5 and QML2 support in Ubuntu Phone
<nOStahl> darthmuffins: make sure your code plays nice with z-push
<darthmuffins> (and yay for that, Qt is awesome)
<mhall119> that is our primary toolkit focus
<darthmuffins> if z-push is in fact compliant, it will be
<Ruslan> mhall119: I mean Okular's support for Qt5 :)
<nOStahl> darthmuffins: it is THE open source exchange connector deal , zarafa and zimbra can use it
<Ruslan> it's KDE-dependent application, and kdelibs are not fully ported to Qt5 yet
<mhall119> Ruslan: oh, that I wouldn't know
<Ruslan> also I don't know if it possible at all to use kdelibs at Ubuntu Phone
<darthmuffins> qt5 had relatively minor changes for a major version increment
<darthmuffins> it shouldn't be too hard to help out if they aren't supporting it yet
<darthmuffins> and yeah, I'll be testing my client against zpush, zimbra, and a trial of mses 2013
<nOStahl> darthmuffins: great to hear
<nOStahl> ahhh its going to be a perfect world soon for me with ubuntu phone
<Ruslan> hm, also, does anybody know "alredy working" smtp/imap/pop3 implementations which are possible to reuse in default e-mail application?
<nOStahl> wish that a hardware vendor would make something solid feeling like the iPhone 5 though
<darthmuffins> rusian: thats included in the plan for the 'core' email client
<darthmuffins> according to the website
<darthmuffins> yeah, hardware-wise, iphone 5 is sublime
<nOStahl> I just bought an iPhone 5 month and half ago
<darthmuffins> ditto
<darthmuffins> ive still got my old gnexus
<nOStahl> good thing my wife's contract on her blackberry is not up yet - so i'll be able to give her this iPhone 5 and find myself a device to put ubuntu phone on
<wastrel> Ruslan: what about something like fetchmail
<nOStahl> that galaxy note looks interesting with the big screen and stylus
<Ruslan> darthmuffins: sorry, what do you mean?
<Ruslan> wastrel: I suppose there can be license issues
<Ruslan> I can't just copy it's source to an application
<Ruslan> so library is preferred, not an application
<darthmuffins> rusian: what was your question?
<darthmuffins> there are libs that implement common mail protocols i think
<Ruslan> darthmuffins: I've found only libmailcommon, which is part of kde, libevolution, which is part of gnome
<Ruslan> other one are strange
<darthmuffins> http://www.washington.edu/imap/
<darthmuffins> http://www.vmime.org/
<darthmuffins> http://libsmtp.berlios.de/
<darthmuffins> i prefer imap to pop
<Ruslan> darthmuffins: thanks for links :)
<Ruslan> darthmuffins: I also, but there are still popular pop-only servers in real world
<darthmuffins> np
<darthmuffins> true. and i wouldn't use them lol
<Ruslan> i.e. historically mail.ru is one of the most poopular e-mail provider in ex-USSR, but technically it's too stupid
<darthmuffins> yeah, lots of FOSS projects like that are still around
<Ruslan> so we have to support this protocol :(
<rsalveti> http://www.canonical.com/content/touch-developer-preview-ubuntu-be-published-21-february-2013
<KevinWright> Ruslan: how about this http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-labs/messagingframework
<rsalveti> news about the public images ^
<Ruslan> KevinWright: oh, it's still alive?
<Ruslan> wonderfull
<KevinWright> Ruslan: well alive is a relative term :)
<KevinWright> Ruslan: if you mean still on gitorius and getting an occasional commit yes it appears so
<darthmuffins> rsalveti: ty for link
<darthmuffins> bbl y'all
<Ruslan> darthmuffins: it's still Qt4-only, as I see
<Ruslan> KevinWright: is porting qmessagingframework a part of e-mail client development? or there are other ideas
<Ruslan> KevinWright: message before is also for you %)
<KevinWright> Ruslan: I was just noticing the same thing, that it had not been ported to Qt5
<KevinWright> Ruslan: Not sure how useful it might be. I noticed that the messaging module also isn't available either
<Ruslan> KevinWright: wonderfull %) also, what's about account issue? do you have an answer or not yet?
<KevinWright> Ruslan: that came up in another unrelated discussion today and it seems the thing I wanted to get confirmed is unclear, so we'll need to come up with something ourselves
<KevinWright> Ruslan: But I'll keep asking around just in case
<Ruslan> KevinWright: also, what's about telepathy support in UP?
<Ruslan> or there will be no messaging system?
<ajalkane> QtTelepathy support would be great
<Ruslan> that's not related to e-mail client, but I'm interested)
<KevinWright> Ruslan: I'm unsure myself about the specifics in that space
<Ruslan> ok %)
<Ruslan> hm
<Ruslan> KevinWright: so it's possibly is needed to write own implementation? %)
<Ruslan> hi, bugs!
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-phone to: Discussion for all things regarding Ubuntu for Phones | This channel is logged to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | If nobody is here use http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/mobile | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone | http://www.canonical.com/content/touch-developer-preview-ubuntu-be-published-21-february-2013
<Andy80> I have installed these packages https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-beta-proper but when I call "qmake -v" from terminal I get: qmake: could not open config file '/usr/share/qtchooser//default.conf': No such file or directory
<Andy80> any idea how to fix it?
<wastrel> is qtchooser installed?
<wastrel> apt-get install qtchooser
<mhall119> http://www.canonical.com/content/touch-developer-preview-ubuntu-be-published-21-february-2013
<mhall119> bah, popey beat me to it already
<wastrel> so i need a new phone between now and feb21 so i can use my gnex for this
<manoj> hello all
<mhall119> more news in there, images for the Nexus 4 will be provided as well
<wastrel> oh i could just get a nexus 4 then :]
<wastrel> makes sense becasue nobody can get gnex anymore
<mhall119> they're all over ebay
<wastrel> oh :[
<wastrel> heh i never think of ebay
 * bobweaver wonders if it is uTouch 
<bobweaver> Any one want to help me make weather app ?
<Andy80> wastrel, let me check...
<Andy80> wastrel, yes, it's installed
<mhall119> bobweaver: uTouch was renames, it's OIF now
 * Andy80 is getting a Lumia 920 next week, just in time :D
 * jo-erlend has bought the Nexus 7 and is wondering if this is also the right time to get a Galaxy Nexus. 
<bobweaver> ahh cool sorry mhall119  for that late response I m in meeting (TV)
<benkaiser> mhall119: How hard will it be to port the source of the Ubuntu Phone OS to other devices / what experience would I need?
<rsalveti> Stskeeps: hey
<mhall119> benkaiser: I don't know, but we're targetting Android-compatible devices, so it shouldn't be any harder than porting Android
<rsalveti> Stskeeps: so, we're not forking hybris :-) we just had a custom version to help getting the stuff up to speed, the goal is to clean that up and start sending the patches back to you in a few days
<doomlord> do you know if any phones can display 1920x1080p when docked (even if they have lower res displays) - i gather some can output video like this -but is that a seperate path
<rsalveti> Stskeeps: and also making the package available at ubuntu (raring)
<Stskeeps> rsalveti: that'd be lovely, thanks
<doomlord> e.g is the underlyiing hardware capable of 1920x1080, its just android isn't reworked for it
<Stskeeps> rsalveti: looking forward to seeing what you've done with it
<rsalveti> yeah :-)
<benkaiser> mhall119: that's a worry, it takes carriers / manufacturers 6-12 months to port new android versions
<mhall119> benkaiser: it takes Cyanogen/XDA hackers significantly less time
<benkaiser> mhall119: so true... which I can testify to with my android 4.2 running on my Galaxy Note atm... But tbh I have never contributed to the CM community
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I was thinking of dividing my project into 5 basic classes, Governing Rules,	Artificial Intelligence,	Map Generator,	Interface,	Content
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Think I can get away with this?
<ajalkane> No I don't
<Akiva-Thinkpad> ajalkane: Yah?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> branches I mean
<ajalkane> Just my uneducated opinion. But who not start with those and increase them later if need be :)
<ajalkane> * why not
<Akiva-Thinkpad> ajalkane: Ah, right, that works
<Akiva-Thinkpad> ajalkane: of course, I'll probably make a statistics branch
<Akiva-Thinkpad> a networking branch
<darthmuffins> still working on that game?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Hmmm come to think of it... Probably better to do that now than later
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Yah, I'll show you my road map thus far.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmXdRsCSWUwWdHg1MEw3TVNEeWl3Y0VtVGdTd2tfR0E#gid=0
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Needless to say, I am very tired
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I get addicted to projects like these :P
<darthmuffins> i heart projects :)
<darthmuffins> haha
<Akiva-Thinkpad> heh
<darthmuffins> your spreadsheet looks godo
<darthmuffins> good*
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Thanks, its alright. Not perfect, but I am sleep deprived
<Akiva-Thinkpad> so thats okay :)
<nOStahl> So, you know whats neat? these mobile smart phones we have these days are cooler than Tri-corder's on star trek lol
<nOStahl> and they are thinner and sleeker to boot
<Akiva-Thinkpad> heh
<Akiva-Thinkpad> yep
<Akiva-Thinkpad> ajalkane: okay, I got 9 now. Can you think of one more for a perfect 10?
<darthmuffins> well, planning is always a good start
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Governing Rules	Artificial Intelligence	Map Generator	Interface	Realtime	Statistics	Network	Sound	Art
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Planning makes things easy
<darthmuffins> akiva -> you said python yes?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: thats what I know and love, but i'll prob just use c++
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I need the practice
<darthmuffins> I was going to recommend that, since it can be easily ported to the QML rendering interface the ubuntuSDK uses
<darthmuffins> I have a pretty good amount of knowledge about that process, if you want any help
<darthmuffins> that, and i've done at least one production quality game engine
<Akiva-Thinkpad> wow, was that jono bacon?
<darthmuffins> i'd assume so, since michael hall is on here too
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Really?
<darthmuffins> mhall119
<Akiva-Thinkpad> That is so neat :P
<mhall119> darthmuffins: ?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> mhall119: Were busy casting a gold idol in your likeness
<darthmuffins> sorry, we were just oogling at your celebrity status as a member of canonical
<darthmuffins> :)
<mhall119> Akiva-Thinkpad: awesome, I'll buy two
<darthmuffins> can I have one?
<mhall119> only if you worship it devoutly
<Akiva-Thinkpad> They come with 5 commandments each
<darthmuffins> i've already got a shrine and an apostle
<darthmuffins> but we don't have any thing to sacrifice yet. still holding auditions
<mhall119> commandment #1: Get Excited and Make things
<mhall119> commandment #2, stop reading and go do #1
<mhall119> commandment #3: seriously, stop reading.  Now!
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Woah, its so concise
<mhall119> commandment #4: alright fine, keep reading to find the true meaning of life
<darthmuffins> 42
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: anyways, got any suggestions for a 10th branch? Governing Rules	Artificial Intelligence	Map Generator	Interface	Realtime	Statistics	Network	Sound	Art
<mhall119> commandment #5: TODO: document true meaning of live before release
<darthmuffins> haha
<darthmuffins> now im jealous, i need some street cred so i can have my own commandments
<mhall119> I knew I forgot something
<Akiva-Thinkpad> commandment #6: smash the apple computers owned by canonical developers.
<darthmuffins> no no, those are ok.
<darthmuffins> they run ubuntu
<mhall119> there are only 5 commandment, heretic
<darthmuffins> :)
<darthmuffins> burn him!
<Akiva-Thinkpad> you asked for two
<Akiva-Thinkpad> and no, I watched the lightning developer summit
<Akiva-Thinkpad> then again, there are a few things here and there to learn from mac
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I used it when I did video production,
<Akiva-Thinkpad> and you really have to hand it to quicktime; it is stable.
<darthmuffins> haha - they are masters of UI design too
<Akiva-Thinkpad> meh
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Never was a fan to be honest
<darthmuffins> I emulate them in gui design for non power users
<darthmuffins> yeah but 500million people disagree with you...
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Well, allot of programs come off as winampish
<darthmuffins> and ill think about anothe rcolumn... i'm working on some general libs and interface classes you can use to interface an engine with the QML classes
<Akiva-Thinkpad> you know, abandons any uniformity, and just does what it wants
<darthmuffins> or at least, thinking about how to do so
<darthmuffins> true
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I smell bacon.
<darthmuffins> i had bacon for lunch
<Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Wow. I have milk and hummus
<darthmuffins> well, turkey bacon sandwich
<darthmuffins> i had chickpeas as a side
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Ah
<Akiva-Thinkpad> that does sound good
<darthmuffins> fantastique
<benkaiser> mhall119: Is there a maps application shipping with the Ubuntu Phone OS? does it use Google Maps?
<mhall119> benkaiser: I haven't heard anything about one
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I can start taking pictures in my car while going to and fro
<darthmuffins> i think gmaps data is somewhat open
<darthmuffins> anyway, gtg. good weekend folks
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Later
<Akiva-Thinkpad> is there quadcore arm yet?
<nOStahl> thought there was?
<nOStahl> we should setup a maps app with Open Street Maps
<Akiva-Thinkpad> nOStahl: Open Street Maps?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Never heard of it
<nOStahl> you've used it I bet
<nOStahl> even foursquare uses it
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Duck Duck Go is apparenty opensauce
<Akiva-Thinkpad> and their search has improved leaps and bounds
<nOStahl> I'm building an entire site around open street maps right now
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Can I see?
<nOStahl> its local only
<Akiva-Thinkpad> or is it not published?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Okay
<lordnoid> will there be dual booting?
<nOStahl> but once its live you will most likely be using it :)
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I wish you much success
<Akiva-Thinkpad> lordnoid: What else do you want to boot your phone into?
<lordnoid> Android...
<Akiva-Thinkpad> eww
<wastrel> it's a good idea
<lordnoid> for at least the coming year there will be many Android apps with no Ubuntu alternative
<Akiva-Thinkpad> like what?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Flashlight?
<lordnoid> like whatsapp
<lordnoid> or good navigation
<Akiva-Thinkpad> never heard of it
<wastrel> or small apps for various web services people use
<Akiva-Thinkpad> meh, I just hate the whole java experience
<Akiva-Thinkpad> it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
<lordnoid> the user doesn't really experience Java in Android
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Oh yes they do
<nOStahl> i've had nothing but bad experiences with java
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Slow; bloated; Freezing
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Oh, and that it can't uninstall software?
<lordnoid> Android definitely doesn't feel slow, bloated or freezing
<lordnoid> and it can
<Akiva-Thinkpad> lordnoid: Its always been behind apple, and yes it does
<ajalkane> If the phone has unlocked bootloader, dualbooting android is technically feasible (see N9 and Nitroid for example). I don't personally think it'd be that useful, though
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Maybe you have one of those massive phones with like 2ghz
<wastrel> i have a galaxy nexus, performance is fine
<wastrel> <3
<ajalkane> Who wants to reboot their phone just to use whatsapp once in a while? In inverse, if you're that stuck up to using what's app, why would  you get Ubuntu phone in first place instead of Android phone?
<lordnoid> I think you'd miss out on some developers if there's no dualbooting..
 * Akiva-Thinkpad should start a campaign to get wind to carry the ubuntu phone
<wastrel> lordnoid: it's a good idea
<wastrel> someone should start a project for it...
<wastrel> the indefinite someone who is not me
<Akiva-Thinkpad> lordnoid: You are probably right. Ubuntu Phones selling point is going to be to the sysadmin who wants flexibility
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Well one of the selling points anyways
<wastrel> the easier the better also.  my gnex is stock OS because messing with CM and rooting is not something i want to be doing with my only communication device
<wastrel> i want a reliable communication device, not a hobby project
<lordnoid> maybe but the marketing doesn't seem to be directed to business atm
<ajalkane> I'm trying to run qmlscene in Ubuntu 12.10 running inside VirtualBox with host being Ubuntu 10.04. But lo and behold, errors:
<ajalkane> Unrecognized OpenGL version
<ajalkane> Unrecognized OpenGL version
<ajalkane> OpenGL Warning: glXChooseFBConfig returning NULL, due to attrib=0xc, next=0x18
<ajalkane> OpenGL Warning: glXChooseFBConfig returning NULL, due to attrib=0xc, next=0x18
<ajalkane> Unrecognized OpenGL version
<ajalkane> Unrecognized OpenGL version
<ajalkane> Cannot create accessible interface for object:  QQuickRootItem(0x88eb520)
<ajalkane> I get a totally black window as a result
<ajalkane> Any ideas? I have host additions installed in VirtualBox and apparently running using 3D
<dmd> ajalkane: dual boot? upgrade? vms + 3d = trouble
<nOStahl> so what carriers will work with ubuntu phone on launch
<dmd> you mean the october launch?
<nOStahl> aye
<dmd> they have not given any info about the october launch
<dmd> my guess is china mobile, or an indian carrier
<nOStahl> so no one knows if gsm or cdma networks?
<ajalkane> uh... dual-boot and/or upgrade is really not something I'd look forward to. I need my working environment and dual boot is a hassle and time waste. Anyone know if VMWare works better?
<dmd> they have not given any such info
<nOStahl> ah
<dmd> nOStahl: a canonical staff just emailed the mailing list with some info about cdma, its not much but it is something
<nOStahl> cause I'm on Sprint :)
<MostHated|2> ooo nexus 4 and galasy nexus images coming on the 21st
<MostHated|2> yay
<MostHated|2> *galaxy
<dmd> where was that announced?
<MostHated|2> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/ubuntu-phone-developer-preview-will-arrive-on-february-21st/
<dmd> because I have a n4, so it would be great
<dmd> nice
<MostHated|2> me too
<MostHated|2> : D
<bobweaver> ajalkane,  you have hardware accell on vbox ?
<ajalkane> bobweaver: yeah
<bobweaver> qt5 does not have accesablity thing for item like in qt4
<bobweaver> you have all mesa stuff install
<bobweaver> ajalkane,  what are you trying to run like qt3d qtshaders ?
<ajalkane> bobweaver: I haven't installed anything extra beyond installing Ubuntu and the SDK related files... so if there's some mesa stuff to install to get it to work, I haven't done it
<bobweaver> depends should have installed :/
<bobweaver> are you using qt3d or any of the labs stuff ajalkane   ?
<ajalkane> No, just basic qmlscene which tries to run a skeleton Ubuntu application
<bobweaver> ajalkane,  got a branch of that code ?
<ajalkane> bobweaver: sure, here's how to get it: bzr branch lp:ubuntu-filemanager-app
<bobweaver> thanks looking now
<dmd> ajalkane: working on the file manager as well?
<ajalkane> dmd: I am
<dmd> nice
<bobweaver> ajalkane,  ok I am going to push something see if it works for you
<ajalkane> bobweaver: I have to go sleeping. But thanks for looking into it... although I suspect it's not something that can be solved changing filemanager's sources. Seems more like environment problem running in VirtualBox :(
<bobweaver> Oo
<bobweaver> dmd,  you are making a file manager also ?
<bobweaver> maybe you would like to try out  bzr branch lp:~josephjamesmills/+junk/qmlvideffectqt5
<dmd> bobweaver: good chance I will look at it
<dmd> bobweaver: past two days have been me playing catch up with school
<bobweaver> I am tring to find out who is making file manager so I can tie in other apps and work with them
<dmd> how would you tie in apps?
<dmd> does qml have something like android's intents?
<bobweaver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EE5dr09ur4
<bobweaver> like using a file manager like that
<dmd> yeah to select files, it is a very common use case
<dmd> but i don not know if qml has a way to call into another app like that
<dmd> android does
<bobweaver> so if there is a standerd app then I can include it in my app
<bobweaver> I would figure that core apps would be like that but IDK
<bobweaver> Like all core apps would be just one big app
<bobweaver> weather file manager clock ect kinda like how qt does it with multimedia and all that stuff
<bobweaver> just a thought
 * bobweaver goes bak to cutting up strings with javascript 
<Akiva-Thinkpad> What database software works well with everything?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> err, I am tired
<dmd> sqlite
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I mean, for ubuntu phone
<dmd> no idea
<dmd> sorry
<Akiva-Thinkpad> How about this
<Akiva-Thinkpad> which dbsoftware uses c++?
<dmd> all of them?
<dmd> the notepad example used some sql
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Bah, I am way to tired to be asking questions.
<dmd> i'd check what they did
<dmd> or I would go to bed
<dmd> that might be the better plan
<bobweaver> I would also say sqllight
<bobweaver> as that is what qt uses
<bobweaver> well by stock
<bobweaver> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/How-to_create_a_persistent_settings_database_in_Qt_Quick_(QML)
<bobweaver> http://doc.qt.digia.com/stable/qdeclarativeglobalobject.html#database-api
<fhf> hello all I wonder if my old Samsung Galaxy S1 will be able to run Ubuntu Phone cuz I want to test out beta.
<dmd> maybe, maybe not. It depends.
<dmd> so maybe
<fhf> oh ok I thought S1 will be to weak
<dmd> it might be, it all depends on things we have no idea about
<fhf> copy back thanks
<Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: DMT Thanks
#ubuntu-phone 2013-02-16
<comjf> So if I go buy a nexus 4, I can test the developer preview on the 21st?
<comjf> What's the process of putting something created in Qt Creator onto the phone, hopefully not too complicated
<bobweaver> Hi comjf  there is options in qtcreator that you can set up  to falsh device of=ver net
<bobweaver> then you can save them preferences
<comjf> bobweaver: thanks
<comjf> is the best bet just to buy phone of those phones off of ebay or something?
<comjf> I already have a phone, and won't want a dataplan for this one
<comjf> or a service plan of any kind haha
<bobweaver> http://imagebin.org/246864
<bobweaver> might need to be rooted not sure we will know on the 21st
<bobweaver> I dont even own a cell phone :/
<bobweaver> but I do have arm on qemu
<bobweaver> which you can also set up to run from qtcreator on build
<comjf> arm on qemu? no idea what those words mean
<comjf> lol
<comjf> arm like the processor?
<bobweaver> yeah like what phones use
<comjf> what is qemu
<dmd> multi arch emulator
<bobweaver> qemu is a emulator Like virtual box I think virtual box is fork of it
<dmd> vbox is not a fork of qemu
<comjf> so would it be possible to run the ubuntu flash coming out on the 21st on qemu emulator?
<dmd> maybe
<dmd> a proper image should be released soon
<bobweaver> VirtualBox, released in January 2007, uses some of QEMU's virtual hardware devices, and has a built-in dynamic recompiler based on QEMU. As with KQEMU,
<bobweaver> that is wikipedia fork was wrong word
<dmd> then I'm wrong
 * bobweaver is still trying to get all these "terms down "
<comjf> ok. Yeah I mean I'm still learning base things before I'm going to get to the phone so I'm not in a rush, just curious
<comjf> is there some benefit to running a QML project on QEMU rather then just through qmlviewer or scene
<bobweaver> comjf,  there is a front end gui for qemu  I suggest tring out on debian and what not there is a bunch of tutorials even how to make your own image
<comjf> noted. Thanks
<bobweaver> qemu gives us things like installer options and "hardware specs" that can not be tested in qmlscece or qt1 viewer
<bobweaver> like OS specific things
<comjf> bobweaver: makes sense. I didn't even think of the install process... I know nothing about that haha
<bobweaver> there is also android4X that runs in virtual box, I also o not know that much about phones
<comjf> I forgot c++ needs to manage memory directly right... crap. Not like these nice high level scripting langauges
<comjf> I just call delete on each variable I create when the function ends right?
<comjf> and set their pointers to NULL
<bobweaver> http://www.kirsle.net/blog/kirsle/android-4-0-in-virtualbox
<bobweaver> comjf,  I am not the best at c++ what I do (also never went to college for all this) but that said what I do. is make sure that I run valgrind it looks for leaks
<bobweaver> if it finds them then I try to fix. or I ask others to help me fix
<comjf> bobweaver: ok. also does andriod 4 support QT5? I didn't think it did
<bobweaver> that is a great question
<bobweaver> I dont know
<bobweaver> I am sure that it does
<comjf> ok
<comjf> don't know why I didn't think it did then
<bobweaver> wait android for X or android 4 ?
<bobweaver> wait is there a android 4 ?
<bobweaver> << clueless
<comjf> oh the link you send me
<comjf> its virtualbox for not andriod 4 haha nvm
<bobweaver> says on blog
<bobweaver> Don't expect a lot of apps to work -- for various reasons, apps that work on real Android devices may not function properly on Android-x86.
<bobweaver> best to use qemu
<bobweaver> this looks like It could be fun and cool ! http://xecdesign.com/qemu-emulating-raspberry-pi-the-easy-way/
<bobweaver> but that is for Pi I am sure that other images/zips w/kernels and what not will work
<comjf> hey I have a pi
<comjf> that I haven't have time to look at, just got it haha
<bobweaver> you should try the code that I have for Ubuntu TV on it for me .
<comjf> so I can run debian with QEMU on the pi
<comjf> then somehow connect it?
<bobweaver> read the blog
<comjf> ok
<bobweaver> sorry that is not what I meant
<bobweaver> I am real sorry
<bobweaver> that is def not what I was trying to say
<comjf> lol no worries, but yeah if you want to give me a git link to your code I can try and run it
<comjf> once I get the pi set up
<bobweaver> what I was trying to say is there are many different types of arm and versions that are used
<bobweaver> the clog talks about a couple things like that
<bobweaver> blog *
<bobweaver> there is a video by a kick a dude called kris about how to make your own arm images
<bobweaver> I think it is like a couple parts long
<comjf> nice. The problem I have is I need to borrow a friends sdcard reader to flash debian
<bobweaver> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGnkzAiuhUk
<comjf> the video sounds pretty great
<comjf> its for archos, though should be similar for pi
<comjf> yeah he just said it works for pretty much any arm
<comjf> haha
<comjf> this is a great resource... so much stuff I have to learn about
<comjf> where in the dev process is the ubuntu-tv
<bobweaver> comjf,  what do you mean dev process
<bobweaver> comjf,  there is the channel #ubuntu-tv
<comjf> bobweaver: is it able  to be demoed yet?
<bobweaver> comjf,  I have a ppa
<comjf> bobweaver: Oh, so it's released
<comjf> no idea it was that far along
<bobweaver> comjf,  I am the un-offical lead UI developer for Ubuntu TV
<bobweaver> let me get you a video ....
<comjf> I thought it was on the same level as the phone
<bobweaver> comjf,  check this out
<bobweaver> https://plus.google.com/u/0/104659991254860976283/posts/H5GKRE3ja2w
<bobweaver> no I am waiting on the phone to go public then I will know what I have at my fingertips to use
<bobweaver> like dbus libdee ect
<bobweaver> so when user docs there phone and screen is bigger then 33 inchs it goes to formfactor TV
<bobweaver> docks
<bobweaver> or swichs form factor manually
<comjf> nice
<bobweaver> It will have the same thing as the Ubuntu SDK things but for TV
<bobweaver> import Ubuntu.Compents.TV 01
<bobweaver> like that. Or that is a plain that I was thinking of we will see what happens
<bobweaver> I am just a community dude though I do talk to many canonical people I myself do not work for them
<comjf> so what is it exactly? It's not just an application, it's a stand alone OS meant specifically to be used as a TV?
<bobweaver> If you would like to test the Ubuntu TV or (U2t transition name) There is a ppa  but you must have 12.04 install I Highly recomend using a virtual box
<bobweaver> It is just a form factor that changes depending on device it is running or stuff like that
<bobweaver> Like One Phone =  One desktop + One TV+ one tablet
<comjf> ah ok
<comjf> what are you using to create it, QML/QT?
<bobweaver> yeah
<comjf> does it only work with a certain window manager?
<bobweaver> I also have to say that there where many many many people before me
<comjf> well I guess it's for ubuntu, sorry still thinking about my arch days haha
<bobweaver> depends now or the future
<bobweaver> now:  it can run on anything that Unity 2d can run on
<bobweaver> which is almost all X
<bobweaver> as Unity 2d or the oG unity-qt as it was called when it 1st stared back in 10.10
<comjf> is the ubuntu-phone going to automatically adjust screen size pending on if it's plugged into a dock/external monitor? I guess I'm just not grasping how this is different
<bobweaver> after 12.04 libunity libdee and other things changed and people droped it
<bobweaver> Yes
<bobweaver> it will adjust
<bobweaver> java script is handy for that but there is troubles (just like any thing new )
<bobweaver> like this
<bobweaver> function tvPx(tvPixels) {
<bobweaver>     var distanceToDisplay = unity2dConfiguration.formFactor === "desktop" ? desktopDistanceToDisplay : tvDistanceToDisplay
<bobweaver>     var pixelDensity = unity2dConfiguration.formFactor === "desktop" ? desktopPixelDensity : tvPixelDensity
<bobweaver>     var factorFromTv = pixelDensity / tvPixelDensity * distanceToDisplay / tvDistanceToDisplay
<bobweaver>     return tvPixels * factorFromTv
<comjf> yeah, I can only imagine
<bobweaver> }
<dmd> syntax error
<dmd> un recognized " yeah, I can only imagine"
<comjf> haha
<bobweaver> but troubles are in 2 things mainly translations
<comjf> bobweaver: isn't that the idea behind the 'grid unit' though
<comjf> so it auto translates... I mean I won't have to worry about that from a developer standpoint will I?
<bobweaver> No because of many different reasons
<bobweaver> well think about this
<bobweaver> say you have a Role of some sort has name like foo that returns some data  and you do      Text{text: foo }   will work
<bobweaver> but if you try to wrap that in translations then it would just return foo
<bobweaver> like qsTr("foo")
<comjf> hmm
<bobweaver> same with propertys and also same with vars ect
<bobweaver> workaround is to make functions for these things but that is a Ton of functions
<bobweaver> or say you want to use html
<dmd> you've lost me
<bobweaver> Text{text: "<b>foo</b>"}
<bobweaver> that would be in bold
<dmd> why does i18n.tr("foo") not work?
<dmd> can you use html in qml?
<bobweaver> because it translates the string its self
<bobweaver> Oh yeah you can
<bobweaver> you can even do things like
<dmd> why do you not want "foo" being translated?
<dmd> "foo" is a user facing string right?
<bobweaver> Text{text: "<b>foos name:</b>"+foo+"<u>this</u>"}
<bobweaver> dmd,  ok say that you have a XmlListModel  do you know what that is ?
<dmd> it sounds like an object
<bobweaver> can be let me post some code and I will explain
 * dmd is getting pizza, one min
<bobweaver> dmd,  cool well I will explain and you can read when you want
<dmd> back
<bobweaver> if you look at this paste  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1660727/
<bobweaver> take a look at lines 1 -- 64
<bobweaver> 8 -- 12 are real imporant
<dmd> seeing
<bobweaver> I am gathering the 100% box area that user is searching
<bobweaver> east west north south
<bobweaver> like lat and long but all 4
<dmd> why a string?
<bobweaver> no floats
<bobweaver> O*
<dmd> oh, I did not know that
<bobweaver> 233.33 is string as no floats
<bobweaver> 2333 int sure
<bobweaver> at any point
<bobweaver> 35 44  << lines in paste
<bobweaver> function load(Name,West,North,East,South)
<dmd> wait, doesn't javascript only have floats
<dmd> all ints are in fact floats
<bobweaver> it does
<dmd> so why no floats?
<bobweaver> property
<bobweaver> that is not imporant
<dmd> ok
<bobweaver> "http://api.geonames.org/weatherXML?north="+North+"&south="+South+"&east="+East+"&west="+West+"&username="+userName
<bobweaver> this calls the api
<dmd> yeah that looks perfect
<bobweaver> you can see that it is bringing togeather
<bobweaver> east west north and south    from the last API
<dmd> but it is not a user facing string right, what is wrong with i19n.tr?
<bobweaver>    XmlRole { name: "observationTime"; query: "observationTime/string()";isKey: true }
<bobweaver>         XmlRole { name: "temperature"; query: "temperature/string()" }
<bobweaver>         XmlRole { name: "dewPoint"; query: "dewPoint/string()" }
<bobweaver>         XmlRole { name: "humidity"; query: "humidity/string()" }
<bobweaver>         XmlRole { name: "clouds"; query: "clouds/string()" }
<bobweaver>         XmlRole { name: "weatherCondition"; query: "weatherCondition/string()"}
<bobweaver>         XmlRole { name: "status"; query: "Status/string()" }
<bobweaver>         XmlRole { name: "windDirection"; query: "windDirection/string()" }
<bobweaver>         XmlRole { name: "windSpeed"; query: "windSpeed/string()" }
<bobweaver>         XmlRole { name:"stationName" ; query: "stationName/string()"}
<bobweaver> these are all the things in the xml that I say Hey I want that
<dmd> I have the paste open
<bobweaver> so like if you look at
<bobweaver> http://api.geonames.org/weatherXML?north=43.26905&south=43.10332&east=-77.53116&west=-77.70164&username=bobweaver12345
<dmd> thank you I did not know that, I have yet to use xml&qml
<bobweaver> you see how there is all the XMLRoles
<dmd> yeah
<bobweaver> so know I can use this as a MODEL
<dmd> ok
<bobweaver> lines 101 -- 102
<bobweaver> I say use the model wth the Id of serieModel
<dmd> and that hooks it up to the xml model?
<bobweaver> yes
<bobweaver> so know when I call observationTime
<bobweaver> it grabs it from the XML
<bobweaver> so I can say Text{text: observationTime}
<dmd> ok
<bobweaver> but if I put in
<dmd> I think I understand now
<bobweaver> Text{text: qsTr( observationTime)}
<bobweaver> what would happen ?
<dmd> it would give you æè¦æé
<bobweaver> correct it would just translate that word and not data
<bobweaver> which is why I say that is a lot functions
<dmd> makes sense
<dmd> sounds like it should be fixable with something like i18n.tr where it derefs the field and then transaltes that
<bobweaver> dmd,  this also happens on things like gles shadding
<bobweaver> not that I have seen I have not seen it do that
<bobweaver> most the time also if user is using different langs to search things then that is that
<bobweaver> api does it job
<bobweaver> if api is good
<bobweaver> i18n.tr I would have to look at that wonder if it uses qsTR
<bobweaver> ;)
<bobweaver> also about that paste that is super alphs stuff there
<bobweaver> alpha *
<bobweaver> alot will be changed after it all works
<dmd> how is the weather app going?
<bobweaver> getting particals and things like that to show up when it is raining or snowing
<bobweaver> shades for drops of rain ect
<dmd> going full featured eh
<bobweaver> shaders *
<bobweaver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbwY8xIVfOk   particals
<bobweaver> great place for examples I would say http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhWS_bN-T3k&list=LLzkAk08QdVFd1CmwWQBD3Sw
<comjf> random question: what do you guys use for irc clients on ubuntu? I like irssi but no notifications, is empathy any good for irc
<dmd> i'm using irssi, not tried anything else
<comjf> yeah, I might work on a perl script to kind with the default notification system
<comjf> to link with*
<bobweaver> I use pidgen
<bobweaver> or pork j/k alot of times x-chat
<comjf> I have this line: ns1__transactions* transactions = createTransaction(soap);
<comjf> createTransaction is either that object or null. Is there a way I can say: transactions = (if createTransaction(soap) != NULL)
<comjf> in c++
<comjf> like what would that be called... it's not even an inline-if haha
<dmd> I started using a vpn a few months ago
<dmd> what I have noticed is americans get 3x the ads canadiands do
<comjf> dmd: haha, we do get a lot of ads
<dmd> the big bang how has 5! ads before it plays
<dmd> then 4 more during the comercial breaks
<dmd> ctv.ca has ~2
<bobweaver> you need a filter
<bobweaver> sorry wrong  place
<bobweaver> dmd,  where in canada I am on the border myself ?
<dmd> calgary
<dmd> you?
<bobweaver> Ontario
<dmd> windsor?
<bobweaver> close
<bobweaver> right by london
<dmd> as far as I know that area is all toronto =}
<bobweaver> ferry ride to toranto takes 45 minutes but driving takes 1.20
<dmd> ouch
<bobweaver> I am in the states
<dmd> maybe it is a different city
<dmd> oh
<dmd> isn't that detroit?
<bobweaver> nope
 * bobweaver is a yankee 
<dmd> that means you are american right?
 * bobweaver lives in the town that is know for inventing the Gui and also the mouse 
<bobweaver> also the copy machine and most of the film industry
<dmd> xeroxville?
<comjf> zerox/
<Fishscene> LOL
<dmd> wasn't xerox in palo alto?
<bobweaver> Nope
<bobweaver> just a station
<comjf> Also in america, it takes an hour for a pizza to be delivered. I can only hope Canada is better
<dmd> I just make it
<dmd> $3 pizza from walmart
<bobweaver> num num num
<dmd> plus some patience
<dmd> its awesome pizza
<nOStahl> 4 dollar pizza from papa murphys is good
<comjf> I live on a boat
<comjf> not much room for pizza in my freezer
<dmd> do you have elextricity?
<comjf> I can fit like 2 small TV dinners in there or a steak
<dmd> you can buy some from elex
<bobweaver> yah all are crazy make that pizza
<comjf> yeah
<dmd> I bought a small freezer from walmart, ~$150
<comjf> I cant put it anywhere
<dmd> I can fit a months worth of pizza, fish, peroges, and some assorted other food
<comjf> plus I only have 30amps total power
 * bobweaver thinks that it is a good Idea to have the sun on weather app postion by time of day 
<dmd> is it a house boat, a fishing boat?
<comjf> so that's a restriction when running heat or AC
<comjf> no sail boat
<comjf> I love sailing
<dmd> oh
<dmd> yeah that would be a problem
<dmd> do you move around or stay at one port?
<comjf> I mean it's pretty nice, but only 30 amps. I have a stove, oven, AC/HEAT, microwave, small fridge/freezer etc
<comjf> right now I'm still locked into my day job, so I don't hop from port to port yet
<comjf> but I take her our frequently
<dmd> you're doing QA right?
<comjf> eventually when my side project income reaches the same as my day job, I'll cut the cord and just live on the move
<dmd> sounds like a good plan
<bobweaver> nice comjf
<comjf> Lead QA/Production Support in Baltimore yeah
<comjf> but my side job I do all kinds of small/medium apps.. so far all webapps.
 * bobweaver sets up stages for bands opera's and things like uds 
<comjf> but I just finished my last contract and wanted to learn QML so here I am haah
<dmd> bobweaver: you get to go to uds?
<bobweaver> anything that would be at a arnea or needs lights or soundboards and stuff like that
<bobweaver> dmd,  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pER9B5Jo5dI
<dmd> you have a video for everything eh
<dmd> I cannot hear you over the music...
<bobweaver> I know right openshot needs a thing to control volume on mixing
<bobweaver> that is something that I am dissapointed in
<bobweaver> what do you all use for video editing software ? what do you think should be on the phone ?
<dmd> i use nothing
<dmd> i never edit video
<bobweaver> lol when I 1st started programing I tried to port julius to qt lol lets just say that that wont work
<bobweaver> lol I also called people that where like programming the kernel back in say 94 asking them about my broadcom card
 * bobweaver facepalm 
<dmd> yeah that's bad
<bobweaver> << only been programing for 2 years
<dmd> have you been focusing on qt?
<bobweaver> not till Ubutnu TV came out
<bobweaver> before that perl python and GTK stuff had no clue what qml was about a year ago
<bobweaver> also web stuff and mainly scripting langs
 * bobweaver has degree in Mycology 
<dmd> I had to google that
<dmd> is i a real thing?
<dmd> it*
<bobweaver> that and went to school for sustainable forestry
<bobweaver> yeah it is real
<dmd> didn't want to move to forest country?
<bobweaver> nah it wasent that I learned that the gov is the biggest loggin company in the us
 * bobweaver did not want to start fires to give money to lobbist 
<dmd> you've lost me
<dmd> I grew up in canadian forest country
<comjf> how old are you guys?
<dmd> you go first
<bobweaver> I am 300
<comjf> lol
<dmd> I am 299
<comjf> I'm 23
<bobweaver> 125 *
<comjf> a newb
<dmd> youning
<dmd> wait, you own a boat and are lead QA?
<dmd> you've been busy
<comjf> yeah, I did college for a year
<comjf> then realized, it wasn't for me. 38K
<dmd> bobweaver: dont you mean 126?
<dmd> private university?
<bobweaver> 124
<dmd> because 38k is insane
<bobweaver> what about you dmd  you go to school also ?
<comjf> 38k per year. and I could easily make more then that
<dmd> yeah 20 in third year of comp sci
<dmd> sorry I thought 38k was the tuition
<bobweaver> just be glad to have any money all you never know what the next dude has
<comjf> 38k tuition per year
<comjf> private christian school
<comjf> not the way to go
<dmd> that is insane
<comjf> plus I didn;t learn a single thing in the CS field... it was only a BA program.. I just went there for the wrong reasons
<dmd> university of calgary is ~7k/year
<dmd> I went to a christian uni first year and it was still only 7k
<comjf> yeah again. I was a dumb 17 year old
<comjf> haha
<comjf> at least I got out and worked my way into a great job before getting 4 years of that debt
<dmd> the states have some insane unviersity stuff going on
<comjf> yeah
<dmd> canada's closests thing to ivy is waterloo
<dmd> that they are only 10k year
<dmd> and*
<comjf> the sad thing is, I only qualified for 5k of government loans, and I was raised by a single mother. They just saw that I was a web developer making 30 an hour at 17 and decided I didn;t need any assistance haha
<dmd> ouch
<dmd> so where did you get the rest?
<dmd> freelancing?
<comjf> I was a lead web developer (read the only one) for a small data hosting company in high school, they prepaid me for a few hundred hours
<dmd> so you were saved from the debt?
<comjf> but that was bad too, because I had to work so much just to stay in school... no time for friends, etc and it really pissed me off when we were talking about array lists in a 3rd year CS course that I went through hell to get into
<comjf> you don't need a month on what an array list it
<comjf> is*
<comjf> but no, I had about 8k in debt leaving it.
<dmd> well that is much better than it could have been
<comjf> still was not good, and then being a 'college dropout' make me lose my confidence for a while
<dmd> I knew one guy I meet in second year
<dmd> he struggled beyond belief with basic programming
<comjf> I'm not great at anything in particular. I just figure things now inorder to get the task done. I think people are to afraid to get dirty and way over their head, that's how i've learned pretty much everything
<dmd> I feel sorry for him
<dmd> but he has issues with executing
<dmd> sounds like you do NOT have his problem
<comjf> haha you say that
<comjf> took me 6 hours yesterday
<comjf> to get this gsoap crap to run
<dmd> in my case university is a requirement, no country will take me as an immigrant otherwise
<comjf> because upstream debian didn't ship a file I needed, and I couldn't figure that out
<dmd> and I am tired of the cold
<comjf> you want to leave?
<dmd> today it was 6 degrees (C) and it felt very warm
<dmd> like summer had come
<dmd> normal for the past six months has been -10 to -20
<comjf> yeah, I'd die
<dmd> you can put on a coat and mittens but you will still be cold
<comjf> my boat can only do about 35 degrees warmer then it is outside
<dmd> on the other hand alberta is well run
<dmd> no taxes, good services, cheap universites, tons of jobs
<dmd> low taxes*
<dmd> its not that good
<dmd> 5 years ago we had a silly boom
<comjf> so where do you want to come?
<dmd> I knew some friends who were the only workers at night at a gas station
<comjf> go*
<dmd> which does not sound odd until the realize that said friends were 14
<dmd> the goal is japan
<dmd> but plan b is states
<dmd> im saving up to last for a long job hunt in japan
<dmd> although I just found out a week ago that I have german citizenship
<dmd> so I could go anywhere in europe
<comjf> that's pretty awesome
<comjf> I would love to be a citizen of the EU
<comjf> living on a boat in the Med would be amazing
<dmd> yeah I feel bad for having this awesome right that I have no intention of using
<dmd> "wow this is cool, i suppose"
<comjf> haha
<comjf> yeah my grandmom's mom was English. She could claim citizenship, and I could claim it from her like 5 years later
<comjf> but she's to lazy to apply for it
<comjf> haha
<dmd> ouch
<dmd> because there is no down side
<comjf> bobweaver: what do you use to check for c++ leaks? something with a v?
<dmd> valgrind?
<bobweaver> yes
<comjf> thanks
<bobweaver> comjf,  http://imagebin.org/246877
<dmd> tisk tisk
<dmd> command line valgrind
<comjf> yeah I'll just do it command line
<comjf> I haven't moved to wrap my c++ code in QML yet
<comjf> want to test it for leaks before i do that
<comjf> ==8031==    definitely lost: 336 bytes in 7 blocks
<comjf> ==8031==    indirectly lost: 210 bytes in 9 blocks
<comjf> not to bad for being a newb
<bobweaver> better then I could do
<dmd> yeah that's great
<dmd> but valgrind is awesome so patching them is not a big deal
 * bobweaver don't care how one runs valgring or lintian but is happy to see people using it 
<bobweaver> time to investagate
<bobweaver> what is it fonts libs ?
<bobweaver> valgrind reminds of me of this song for some reason ... o*     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QQC-C3sCwQ
<bobweaver> I think the person that tuned that guitiar in the solo needs valgrind
<bobweaver> er I can not getexample http://graphical.weather.gov/xml/DWMLgen/schema/latest_DWML_glance.txt   to read erghh
<bobweaver> It is driving me to the dark side
<dmd> long sun info I take it?
<bobweaver> I think it is because of the exstention
<bobweaver> if you havent noticed by now dmd  /me is dyslexic
<bobweaver> one of the reasons that I think that there is room (there always is) for improvement  esp with qml stuff
<bobweaver>  getting things into debian is hard :(
<dmd> I'm sure you've noticed I cannot spell at all
<dmd> and my sentences often are missing vital words
<dmd> for instance, I have no idea why I wrote "long"
<dmd> I think I meant "missing"
<dmd> but I have no idea where that transformation came from
<bobweaver> Imagine if all the things on the design board where qml exported item ?
<bobweaver> what would happen
<bobweaver> like this http://design.canonical.com/wp-content/uploads/keyscreens_weather.jpg
<bobweaver> what if that was not a jpg
<bobweaver> I know that that dude had to take time to flat4en thouse images
<dmd> then we would be waiting until someone made it
<bobweaver> what if it did not have to be like that ?
<dmd> they did it in photoshop not qml
<bobweaver> what if there where (cought cough ) tools like that ?
<dmd> designers use raster tools because they are fast
<dmd> turning those into real ui is not a big issue
<bobweaver> what if there where tools to take your everthing and make photoshop and gimp things ported everything to qml ?
<bobweaver> what if there where things like that ?
<dmd> it would be ugly markup
<bobweaver> to 100% make unity for users ?
<bobweaver> like there desktop could be designed using gimp ?
<bobweaver> ot there phone
<dmd> that sounds a lot like duck programming
<dmd> as in I think it is impossible
<dmd> because there are fundamental hard parts of programming
<bobweaver> no I am saying that no more gnome control center
<bobweaver> brb
<dmd> once a user is capable of dealing with those hard parts they are by definition programmers
<bobweaver> https://plus.google.com/104659991254860976283/posts/8bpQWEy1NfU
<dmd> ok, skinning would work
<dmd> but that is not new
<bobweaver> no it is not but having the item lists are
<bobweaver> in the py code
<comjf> ==9719==    definitely lost: 96 bytes in 3 blocks
<comjf> ==9719==    indirectly lost: 27 bytes in 3 blocks
<comjf> I can't fix any more then that
<comjf> .. makes me mad it's no 0 haha
<dmd> you're good
<bobweaver> again back to having the designers upload things that devs can use
<bobweaver> not sure if that is a good idea or not ....
<dmd> i do agree it would be nice if they gave us the unflattened asset
<dmd> if only for those clouds and the sun
<bobweaver> yup
<bobweaver> and one could make all the info when exporeted to match the phone
<bobweaver> like x: Utils.Tvpx(22)
<dmd> are you planing to redesign the weather app to match the canonical provided design?
<bobweaver> yup
<bobweaver> that is who is listen to
<bobweaver> if I help my self that is great but .. If I can help Ubuntu then I am helping my self and alot more
<bobweaver> it is the most users in the opensource  atomisher
<bobweaver> atmosphere*
<bobweaver> lady liberty has a blind flood on
<dmd> "that is who is listen to
<dmd> "?
<bobweaver> s|is|I|
<darthmuffins> that is who to listen to?
<darthmuffins> ahh
<dmd> that I who I listen to?
<bobweaver> That is Who I listen too
<dmd> ah
<darthmuffins> ah
<Guest36766> wat are you guys talking about
<bobweaver> morals
<dmd> no?
<dmd> bobweaver is working on a weather app
<bobweaver> lol
<dmd> and bobweaver was talking about automatic design to qml translation
<Guest36766> ok i just got confused for a moment
<darthmuffins> quick poll:
<darthmuffins> Would anyone here use an exchange client if the uPhone's email app provided one?
<dmd> you mean microsoft exhance?
<dmd> exchange*
<darthmuffins> correct
<darthmuffins> specifically: EAS (exchange active sync)
<dmd> sounds like a very usful feature
<darthmuffins> I agree, but i'm not sure how many ubuntu users would use one
<Guest36766> y should we
<darthmuffins> I think if the phone is to be accepted by the masses, its pretty important
<darthmuffins> a lot of companies use them, its common to connect your phone to work email
<dmd> makes 100% sense
<dmd> I'd do it if you know how
<Guest36766> ok i agree
<darthmuffins> I'm working on a lib for it that i'll turn into a plugin for the email app
<darthmuffins> i'm just doing some research, since its a pretty large amount of effort to implement even a partially compliant client
<dmd> are there any existing libraries?
<darthmuffins> not really... there's a few that sort of do bits and pieces
<darthmuffins> the best resource is the android implementation
<darthmuffins> only issue is its written in java
<dmd> that could be useful
<darthmuffins> very. Also z-push provides a compliant server, which makes testing a lot easier
<dmd> worth it for at least a proof of concept
<darthmuffins> exactly
<Guest36766> wat ever packages that aren't there can be replace...right
<bobweaver> darthmuffins,  you are talking about mdm ?
<darthmuffins> bob: huh?
<krabador> i know that everybody in these days tells somethings like "please support this, please support that", but ,really, i pray you ubuntu phone devs, please support Galaxy i9100 :)
<dmd> wrong people
<dmd> krabador: you need to hype it up on xda-dev
<bobweaver> mdm = mobile device mangement
<dmd> krabador: we're only app devs
<darthmuffins> krab: i agree with dmd
<dmd> darthmuffins: which irc client are you using?
<dmd> does it not have tab complete?
<darthmuffins> bobweaver: mdm is only part of the entire picture with eas as I understand it
<darthmuffins> dmd: sure does lol, I'm new to irc though, i didn't realize it'd tab complete
<darthmuffins> mdm is part of the auth/auth process, eas is the language spoken after that occurs... sort of
<krabador> ok, but xda devs are android fanboys in the good part...
<dmd> krabador: yup, that is why ubuntu phone will work with android guts
<darthmuffins> krabador: its all the same kernel
<darthmuffins> (roughly)
<krabador> yes
<darthmuffins> the bootstrapping will almost assuredly be done by the canonical folks for now, until someone else can catch up with knowledge of the uPhone boot process
<krabador> i know drivers troubles, but samsung are officially trying to kill exynos phone, with the missig release of documentation. Canonical indicates dualcore arm 1gb ram as the minimum requirement, that's why i really pray canonical to support samsung i9100
<dmd> krabador: it is a waiting game then
<darthmuffins> krabador: why do you care about one specific phone?
<dmd> he has one?
<darthmuffins> eventually, you will buy another, like it or not
<darthmuffins> its called ebay...
<dmd> swappa is better
<darthmuffins> true story lol
<krabador> simply because i9100 are really a must, and if ubuntu phone will work from this target, hopes for a good diffusion are highest
<dmd> to be honest any galaxy s has a very good chance of getiing a port
<krabador> i really hope
<krabador> and i know it's easiest than s2
<darthmuffins> it will be the big ones first... nexus *, GS3
<darthmuffins> etc
<darthmuffins> luckily i9100 isn't too disimilar, same series of procs and firmware, should be ok
<krabador> i'm really hoping. for now i'm not interested to desktop convergence, but a up to date ubuntu os on my phone, would be really great
<dmd> it may be a while before ubunut phone is usable
<krabador> yes
<krabador> i tried for 2 days firefox os, boot 2 gecko on i9100
<krabador> and despite the pre-alpha status, my use of the phone was guaranteed
<krabador> i'm not the type of user that needs the latest trendy app on the market
<nava> Hi all, this is a mockup for email app:  http://postimage.org/image/e6chmcsc3/
<tehcrs> feb 21st, thats ages
<tehcrs> :(
<aquarius> bah, I can't install the ubuntu-sdk :( There seems to be some sort of collide in libqt5multimediaquick5 : http://paste.ubuntu.com/1662218/ shows the apt log. Help?
<ProGEEK> Does anyone know if the preview release will support docking a.k.a Desktop Mode
<tehcrs> how would we know?
<aquarius> dpm, ^^
<ProGEEK> oh ya know, someone may have heard from an official source what it includes lol
<ProGEEK> worth a shot
<dpm> hi aquarius, hm, Mirv is the packaging expert, but he doesn't seem to be online, so unfortunately I'm not sure I can help. What Ubuntu version are you trying to install it onto, and which Qt5 PPA are you using?
<aquarius> dpm, installing onto raring
<dpm> aquarius, and using qt5-proper?
<aquarius> dpm, using http://askubuntu.com/questions/254800/how-can-i-update-the-ubuntu-sdk-preview-from-the-qt-5-beta-ppa-to-the-qt-5-relea instructions
<aquarius> except that the ppa purge stuff didn't work
<aquarius> I think because I installed the qt5-edgers ppa while I was running quantal, and then upgraded to raring, which disabled that PPA
<dpm> ah, I see. I'm not much of a packaging expert, but you might want to try a few things:
<dpm> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade before installing ubuntu-sdk
<aquarius> did that :)
<dpm> damn :)
<aquarius> even I thought of that one :)
<dpm> sudo apt-get -f install ?
<aquarius> yeah, it gives the collide
<dpm> there is another dpkg command Mirv told me to run that solved some problems for me, let me see if I can find it
<aquarius> grargh
<aquarius> ubuntu-sdk depends on libqt5multimediaquick-p5 and libqt5multimediaquick5 and they have the same file in, /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libQt5MultimediaQuick_p.so.5.0
<aquarius> which is where the collide is coming from
<dpm> :/
 * aquarius removes everything with qt5 in the name.
<aquarius> this is not meant to be hard, people :(
 * aquarius dpkg -S's everything in /opt/qt5 to remove it
<popey> aquarius dpm - mirv is on vacation for a week
<aquarius> convenient. :)
<dpm> aquarius, that's my motto too, but unfortunately everything is furiously changing on the ramp up to MWC
<popey> ahem
<aquarius> not really a complaint -- he needs a holiday, I suspect :)
<aquarius> typically I break everything one day after the dude is away. Story of my life ;)
<popey> i would indeed purge the ppa and reinstall
<aquarius> can't
<aquarius> the ppa is not listed anywhere
<aquarius> ppa-purge doesn't work
 * aquarius carefully removes everything in /opt/qt5 by dpkg -S and apt-get remove.
<popey> hang on
<popey> not listed in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/foo.list
<aquarius> correct.
<popey> did you not add stuff via add-apt-repository?
<aquarius> I did.
<aquarius> and then I upgraded to raring
<aquarius> which presumbly disabled that ppa.
<popey> ah, okay, so it's in a .list.save file
<popey> which you could have re-enabled and then ppa-purged
<aquarius> well. I could, if I thought that that wouldn't screw up the world. I mean, I assume the upgrade disables it for a reason :)
<aquarius> bah!
<aquarius> removed all traces of the /opt/qt5 stuff
<popey> it wouldn't screw up the world, no
<aquarius> installed ubuntu-sdk
<popey> but anyway, we are where we are
<aquarius> and I still get the error. libqt5multimediaquick-p5 and libqt5multimediaquick5 containt he same file
<aquarius> and thus collide.
<aquarius> and ubuntu-sdk appears to depend on both of them :(
<KevinWright> does this mean there are new ... technical challenges (ahem) with ubuntu-sdk? or is this seem Raring specific?
<aquarius> KevinWright, I have no idea. Packaging is not my thing :)
<aquarius> sounds like it
<aquarius> popey, happy to hear suggestions: you're better at this stuff than me ;)
<popey> aquarius: dpkg -l libqt5multimediaquick-p5 libqt5multimediaquick5
<aquarius> in  libqt5multimediaquick-p5:amd64   <none>                amd64                 (no description available)
<aquarius> iU  libqt5multimediaquick5           5.0.0-0ubuntu1~test2  amd64                 Qt 5 Multimedia Quick module
<popey> sudo apt-get remove --purge libqt5multimediaquick-p5 libqt5multimediaquick5
<aquarius> Package 'libqt5multimediaquick-p5' is not installed, so not removed
<aquarius> You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these:
<aquarius> The following packages have unmet dependencies.
<aquarius>  libqt5declarative5-qtmultimedia-plugin : Depends: libqt5multimediaquick5 but it is not going to be installed
<aquarius>  qtmultimedia5-dev : Depends: libqt5multimediaquick-p5 (= 5.0.1-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
<aquarius> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
<aquarius> and apt-get -f install says:
<aquarius> Unpacking libqt5multimediaquick-p5:amd64 (from .../libqt5multimediaquick-p5_5.0.1-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb) ...
<aquarius> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libqt5multimediaquick-p5_5.0.1-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
<aquarius>  trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libQt5MultimediaQuick_p.so.5.0', which is also in package libqt5multimediaquick5 5.0.0-0ubuntu1~test2
<aquarius> Errors were encountered while processing:
<aquarius>  /var/cache/apt/archives/libqt5multimediaquick-p5_5.0.1-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<aquarius> what I can do is remove all the dependencies by hand:
<aquarius> sudo apt-get remove --purge  libqt5multimediaquick5 libqt5multimediaquick-p5 qtmultimedia5-dev libqt5declarative5-qtmultimedia-plugin qt-components-ubuntu-examples ubuntu-sdk
<aquarius> which works fine.
<aquarius> but then when I try and install ubuntu-sdk again (you will note it gets removed in the above line) I get the collide problem.
<popey> ok
<popey> you can try to force install the newer package.. sudo dpkg -i --force-overwrite <packagename>
<aquarius> erm
<aquarius> isn't that gonna screw things up?
<popey> no
<aquarius> OK. Which one do I force?
<aquarius> I don't know how to tell
<popey> libqt5multimediaquick-p5:amd64
<popey> which is the one doing the replacing
<popey> 10:30:07 < aquarius> Unpacking libqt5multimediaquick-p5:amd64 (from .../libqt5multimediaquick-p5_5.0.1-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb) ...
<popey> from that line
<aquarius> trying
<aquarius> ok, forced install of that
<aquarius> now, apt-get install ubuntu-sdk?
<popey> sudo apt-get install --reinstall ubuntu-sdk
<aquarius> ok trying
<aquarius> Unpacking libqt5multimediaquick5 (from .../libqt5multimediaquick5_5.0.0-0ubuntu1~test2_amd64.deb) ...
<aquarius> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libqt5multimediaquick5_5.0.0-0ubuntu1~test2_amd64.deb (--unpack):
<aquarius>  trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libQt5MultimediaQuick_p.so.5.0', which is also in package libqt5multimediaquick-p5:amd64 5.0.1-0ubuntu1
<aquarius> same error :(
<aquarius> maybe I have an old version of it in the apt cache?
<aquarius> I shall apt cache clean and then try again
<popey> hang on
<aquarius> hanging on
<popey> can you apt-cache policy libqt5multimediaquick5 libqt5multimediaquick-p5
<popey> and pastebin
<popey> rather than here
<aquarius> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1662458/
<popey> right, so the bits are landing in distro
<popey> and we can't change the ppa because of MWC
<popey> so thats why you have the conflict
<aquarius> ah.
<popey> new stuff arrived in distro which conflicts
<popey> because of a package rename
<aquarius> so... I am just scr00d and there's not a lot I can do about it?
<popey> no, you're not
<aquarius> hooray!
<aquarius> always happy to hear that I am not :)
<popey> so both those packages are half installed by the look of it
<popey> 10:30:40 < aquarius> sudo apt-get remove --purge  libqt5multimediaquick5 libqt5multimediaquick-p5 qtmultimedia5-dev libqt5declarative5-qtmultimedia-plugin qt-components-ubuntu-examples  ubuntu-sdk
<popey> redo that
<aquarius> redone
<popey> then sudo dpkg --configure -a
<aquarius> (none of them were installed anyway)
<popey> to finish off any packages in flight
<aquarius> nothing needed finidhing
<aquarius> *finishing
<popey> ok, so sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<popey> see if there's anything new
<aquarius> there wasn't half an hour ago, but I shall tr again :)
<aquarius> nope, nothingnew
<popey> ok, now go to the pub and get drunk
<popey> âº
 * aquarius laughs
<aquarius> so I am *temporarily* scrod but it will get fixed?
<popey> can you "apt-cache policy ubuntu-sdk"
<popey> yes
<aquarius> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1662501/
<aquarius> always amused at the word "scrod" for a type of fish. I don't know if we don't have the fish in England or whether we just call it something different from Americans :)
<popey> can i come back to you a bit later when I have had a play on my raring machine?
<popey> actually..
<popey> the description of the ppa has a pastebin which has some suggestions
<popey> "If you have older Qt4/Qt5 packages that have wrong/higher version numbers or conflict otherwise, you may use a variation of the following to force the versions in this repository, provided the other PPA:s are disabled: Qt5 revert: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1616713/"
<popey> that long line may work
<popey> lemme try it
<aquarius> now.
<aquarius> I saw that line
<aquarius> but it's all quantal
<aquarius> and I'm on raring
<popey> oh, missed that
<aquarius> I fear, wildly, the idea of installing quantal packages on raring :0
<popey> ignore that then
<popey> no, you dont want that, it wont work, no worries
<aquarius> glad I made the right decision there then :)
<popey> gimmie 5 mins
<aquarius> k
<popey> ok, i got it installed fine from that ppa
<popey> so you must have something kicking around IMO
<popey> do this
<popey> dpkg -l *qt5* | grep ^ii
<popey> and pastebin it
<tehcrs> GIMME GIMME GIMME
<tehcrs> ;>
 * popey pokes aquarius 
<aquarius> yo
<aquarius> sory, popey :)
<popey> heh np
<aquarius> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1662615/
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1662622/
<popey> thats my list
<popey> if you sudo apt-get install ibqt5multimediaquick-p5:amd64=5.0.1-0ubuntu1
<popey> does it install cleanly?
<aquarius> right, you have two I don't have
<aquarius> yes, having just done that line, it installs cleanly
<popey> ok, do same for other one you're missing?
<popey> sudo apt-get install packagename=version.number
<aquarius> the other one you have is qt5metafull
<aquarius> < ii  qt5-meta-full                                               5.0-release~beta+20120908-1ubuntu5         amd64        The full stack of Qt5 Beta1 release
<aquarius> which does not look relevant
<popey> ok
<aquarius> that's for beta 1, no?
<popey> could skip it
<aquarius> ok, now, install ubutnu-sdk again/
<aquarius> ?
<popey> hang on
<aquarius> hanging on
<popey> do you have ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper enabled still?
<popey> i.e. do you have /etc/apt/sources.list.d/canonical-qt5-edgers-qt5-proper-raring.list
<popey> and more importantly is the contents:-
<popey> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper/ubuntu raring main
<popey> deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper/ubuntu raring main
<aquarius> yes
<aquarius> $ cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/canonical-qt5-edgers-qt5-proper-raring.list
<aquarius> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper/ubuntu raring main
<aquarius> deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper/ubuntu raring main
<popey> ok, so install ubuntu-sdk again
<aquarius> doing it
<aquarius> boom goes the dynamite.
<aquarius> same error
<aquarius> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libqt5multimediaquick5_5.0.0-0ubuntu1~test2_amd64.deb (--unpack):
<aquarius>  trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libQt5MultimediaQuick_p.so.5.0', which is also in package libqt5multimediaquick-p5:amd64 5.0.1-0ubuntu1
<aquarius> No apport report written because MaxReports has already been reached
<aquarius>  
<popey> hmm
<popey> do you have a /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libQt5MultimediaQuick_p.so.5.0 ?
<Andy80> hi
<popey> hi
<Andy80> after adding the mew Qt5 repository, it looks like my Qt setup is a bit screwed up... when I run "qmake" from the terminal, I get this error: qmake: could not open config file '/usr/share/qtchooser//default.conf': No such file or directory
<aquarius> popey, I do: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1662699/
<popey> hmm
<popey> its the same for me aquarius
<aquarius> popey, so, scrod until platform fix it?
<popey> well, i expect its fixable
<popey> but you've reached my limits
<popey> bzoltan may know...
<aquarius> ya. bzoltan, ping when you decide to show up ;)
<aquarius> or ken, who is I suspect asleep, or didrocks who is I suspect doing Fun Things with his weekend which don't involve hacking ;)
<aquarius> bah. And I had a dead good idea, as well.
<popey> sorry
<aquarius> hardly your fault
<popey> well sorry i cant help
<aquarius> unless it is your fault, in which case you have ruined my weekend and you should feel guilty ;)
<popey> yay
<aquarius> not that I am *that* worried, because Rachel arrives soon. :)
<popey> Achievement unlocked.
<dpm> hm, just came back to IRC and I was expecting to see that the problem has been solved :/
<aquarius> sadly... no.
<dpm> anyway, time to cook lunch, have a nice weekend everyone!
<dennyabrain> c
<dennyabrain> testing. can anyone read this?
<bzoltan> aquarius:  I am here... what can I do for you, sir?
<dennyabrain> nothing. I was just testing my IRC client :)
<bzoltan> Andy80:  Without knowing much about the problem you have. I suggest to read this http://askubuntu.com/questions/254800/how-can-i-update-the-ubuntu-sdk-preview-from-the-qt-5-beta-ppa-to-the-qt-5-relea/ and follow this http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
<bzoltan> aquarius:  I am just glancing through the logs ... but I do suggest you the same.
<dennyabrain> d
<aquarius> bzoltan, I have done all that :)
<aquarius> bzoltan, see the logs :)
<bzoltan> OK... so you are on R, right?
<bzoltan> aquarius:  I do not know what Qt5 and SDK you have now, but i would remove all Qt5 and SDK packages
<aquarius> bzoltan, yep, I tried that. (I am on R, yes.) I'm happy to do it again, if you tell me how.
<bzoltan> aquarius: I am on Q so I need to set up a R chroot to see what you see... But fundamentally I think there could be a conflict between the qt5-proper and the raring Qt5 packages
<aquarius> bzoltan, yeah, that's what popey thinks -- stuff is starting to land in the distro, and it conflicts with the qt5-proper ppa. This is not a good state of affairs, especially for me :)
<bzoltan> aquarius: Not exactly :) but do not worry for a sec
<bzoltan> aquarius: the distro stuff you can not disable so you better remove the qt5-proper PPA with $ sudo ppa-purge ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper
<aquarius> purging.
<aquarius> bzoltan, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1663126/
<aquarius> seems to be complaining about a lot of stuff, and then asks whether I should remove things. SHould I?
<bzoltan> aquarius: grep ^Package: /var/lib/apt/lists/ppa.launchpad.net*sdk*Packages /var/lib/apt/lists/ppa.launchpad.net*qt5-*Packages |awk '{print $2}'
<aquarius> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1663138/
<bzoltan> aquarius: if you want to be a real man :) just add  |sudo apt-get -y remove
<aquarius> what's the "no such file or directory" about?
<bzoltan> It is a good sign :) it means that you do not have any qt5 PPA configured in your system... good
<bzoltan> aquarius:  croscheck with $ dpkg -l|grep "Qt 5" that you do not have any crap leftover
<aquarius> I have loads of output from that
<aquarius> I need to do that apt-get -y remove thing first, yes?
<bzoltan> apt-get -y remove is for girls ... real man do it with "dpkg --force-all --purge"
<bzoltan> that one cleans up packages marked as "rc"
<bzoltan> I might be particular, but clean means clean :)
<aquarius> confused.
<aquarius> dpkg -l|grep "Qt 5" lists lots of packages with state ii, meaning they're installed
<aquarius> dpkg -l|grep "Qt 5"|awk '{print $2}' | sudo apt-get -y remove does not remove anything.
<aquarius> doh. xargs :)
<aquarius> ok, removing everything that even mentions qt5 ;)
<aquarius> dpkg -l|grep "Qt 5" now shows *nothing at all*
<aquarius> OK. What should I do now, bzoltan? :)
<bzoltan> screw them all
<bzoltan> Excellent
<bzoltan> Ok... the trouble point is spotted
<bzoltan> Distro guys have renamed the libqt5declarative5-qtmultimedia-plugin to qtdeclarative5-qtmultimedia-plugin  ... bu
<bzoltan> But that is a blocker for the qt-components-ubuntu-examples package
<aquarius> ok. so it's a packaging bug in distro?
<bzoltan> aquarius: It is not a bug... distro guys do distro and to say it politically correct  .. those sweet folks do not give rats ass about anything else
<aquarius> heh.
<aquarius> So should I wait until Monday and then I'll be OK?
<bzoltan> in raring you do not even have the ubuntu-sdk what was available from the qt5-proper
<aquarius> yes, yes, it is becoming apparent to me that I should not have upgraded to raring. :)
<bzoltan> aquarius:  it will not be OK on Monday ... unless you install all the necessary packags manually
 * aquarius sobs
<bzoltan> raring is good
<bzoltan> you made valuable contribution in testing this mess ...
<bzoltan> no kidding ... we mist know what will it take to upgrade all our projects to R
<aquarius> we must
<bzoltan> Hell yeah... but not next week
<aquarius> I am worried that I need to b doing stuff with all this next week and the week after
<bzoltan> So .. I still can help you :)
<aquarius> and I have an R machine, which no-one else has :(
<popey> well, i have a raring machine but it doesn't happen here
<popey> oh hang on, I have loads pending in my "dist-upgrade"
 * popey chooses not to install those
<aquarius> :)
<popey> aquarius: you could remove all the qt packages and then manually install them forcing to use the ppa versions
<popey> sudo apt-get install libqt5declarative5=5.0.0-0ubuntu1~test3 packagename=version packagename=version
<popey> etc
<aquarius> ouch :(
<bzoltan> aquarius: this will install to you what I have installed on Q https://pastebin.canonical.com/84822/ some will fail...
<aquarius> bzoltan, so I should do that?
<bzoltan> popey: The conflict between qt5-proper and R is a problem
<bzoltan> aquarius:  it is harmless, you can do it
<bzoltan> aquarius:  it will install most of the Qt5 packages you might need from Raring
<bzoltan> aquarius:  One secret ... with teh QtCreator I decided not to risk anything and all the Qt5 libraries are packaged in the QtCreator and installed alongside with it to a place where those libs will not disturb anything
<aquarius> bzoltan, OK, some of those packages don't exist, or don't have an installation candidate. Should I just ignore them and install the others?
<bzoltan> aquarius:  collect the missing packages, I can tell you what is their R version
<aquarius> bzoltan, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1663309/
<mainerror> Hello
<mainerror> So, I have quite some troubles after trying to install the Ubuntu Phone SDK. :(
<mainerror> apt-get seems to be "bricked"
<mainerror> Basically a QT5 component from the official QT5 PPA seems to have a dependency issue.
<mainerror> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1663326/
<mainerror> My problem is that I can't issue any kind of apt-get command now. :/
<bzoltan> mainerror:  Are you on raring?
<mainerror> Yea.
<aquarius> mainerror, ya, I have the same problem. You can remove --purge ubuntu-sdk and a few other packages and that'll fix apt, although you won't have the Ubuntu sdk.
<bzoltan> mainerror:  fall in line with aquarius :D
<mainerror> :(
<mainerror> Oy
<mainerror> Thanks aquarius and bzoltan
<mainerror> I'm gonna try that.
<mainerror> Mhmm, nope.
<mainerror> Whatever I do I get the message which I've posted in the paste.
<aquarius> mainerror, try this: sudo apt-get remove --purge  libqt5multimediaquick5 libqt5multimediaquick-p5 qtmultimedia5-dev libqt5declarative5-qtmultimedia-plugin qt-components-ubuntu-examples  ubuntu-sdk
<mainerror> HA!
<aquarius> that's removing the problematic packages, and then the stuff which depends on them (which includes ubuntu-sdk)
<mainerror> Whoa, that worked. :)
<mainerror> Thanks a lot!
<bzoltan> aquarius: the qtlocation, qtorganizet  modules are not in R yet
<mainerror> Not being able to checkout the SDK in Raring is a bummer. :(
<aquarius> OK. So, you now have a working and consistent system, although you do not have the Ubuntu SDK. It's being worked on -- this is all very new stuff, as you know, especially in raring, and right now there are a couple of inconsistencies between the qt5-proper PPA (where the very latest development is going on) and the raring distro archives. bzoltan and his team are aware of it and will be fixing it. :)
<bzoltan> aquarius:  qtpim and qtwebkit have not landed yet either
<mainerror> Yea, thanks. :)
<bzoltan> mainerror: Thanks for flagging this issue out! It is cool that we have early warnings for Raring. I can promise that in two weeks the Raring compatibility of the Ubuntu Phone SDK will be fixed
<bzoltan> aquarius, mainerror:  The only thing what works better on Raring is the stock 2.7 QtCreator form the qt5-beta-proper
<mainerror> Sounds good! I'll need a couple of days to gather the money to get a Galaxy Nexus anyway. :D
<bzoltan> Sorry, I lost the ocnnection ...aquarius, mainerror: Is there anything I can help?
<aquarius> bzoltan, not unless you know a way to fix my current situation other than "wait until platform fix the problems next week" ;)
<bzoltan>  aquarius: Those missing packages ill land in Raring at some point yes. I do not promise them for the next week :(
<bzoltan> aquarius: One idea hat could help you is to add the qt5-beta-proper https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-beta-proper to your system:$ sudo add-apt-repository ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-beta-proper && sudo apt-get update
<aquarius> bzoltan, OK, I can do that.
<bzoltan> aquarius:  Do _NOT_ upgrade or downgrade anything... but you can install  with $sudo apt-get install libqt5contacts5  libqt5location5 libqt5organizer5 libqt5versit5 libqt5versitorganizer5 libqt5webkit5 libqt5webkit5-dev qt3d5-dev  qtlocation5-dev qtpim5-dev
<bzoltan> this will pull only these packages from that PPA
<aquarius> bzoltan, OK, I have added that ppa.
<aquarius> now install just those files?
<aquarius> (just those packages, I mean)
<bzoltan> aquarius:  yes
<aquarius> and then, after that, apt-get install ubuntu-sdk ?
<aquarius> bzoltan, that is planning to install things like qt5base5-dev
<bzoltan> installing ubuntu-sdk should fail.. .because it pulls those few comflicting packages
<aquarius> I do not currently have any Qt 5 things installed *at all*
<bzoltan> aquarius:  hmm
<aquarius> bzoltan, my goal here is to have the ubuntu-sdk package so I can write apps :)
<aquarius> if this that you're proposing won't end up with me having ubuntu-sdk, don't worry about it for now ;)
<bzoltan> aquarius: the -dev packages should be safe to install
<aquarius> The following NEW packages will be installed
<aquarius>   libqt53d5 libqt5concurrent5 libqt5contacts5 libqt5core5 libqt5dbus5 libqt5gui5 libqt5location5 libqt5network5 libqt5opengl5 libqt5opengl5-dev
<aquarius>   libqt5organizer5 libqt5printsupport5 libqt5qml5 libqt5quick5 libqt5sensors5 libqt5sql5 libqt5sql5-mysql libqt5test5 libqt5v8-5 libqt5versit5
<aquarius>   libqt5versitorganizer5 libqt5webkit5 libqt5webkit5-dev libqt5widgets5 libqt5xml5 qt3d5-dev qt5-qmake qtbase5-dev qtbase5-dev-tools qtlocation5-dev
<aquarius>   qtpim5-de
<bzoltan> aquarius:  it is not ubuntu-sdk what you want :) but the packages it pulls
<aquarius> so there are some non-dev packages in there too, but I think they are just the ones you named.
<bzoltan> aquarius:   fock it :) let it do
<aquarius> ok, so I should install these things?
<bzoltan> aquarius:   Yes, unleash the apt
<aquarius> OK, installing those packages.
<bzoltan>  aquarius:  You got my mail about the IDE, right?
<aquarius> not sure. I got a mail from you :)
<aquarius> I am fairly careful to not open work mail at weekends, or I'll just work a seven day week ;)
<aquarius> OK, those named packages installed.
<bzoltan> aquarius:  Open the mail on Monday morning :) You will like it
 * aquarius grins
<aquarius> now that I've installed those named packages, what should I do next?
<bzoltan> aquarius:  Ok.. so those packages are there now. Cool
<bzoltan> aquarius:  I think  you should be fine now
<bzoltan> aquarius: $sudo apt-get install  qt-components-ubuntu  qt-components-ubuntu-demos
<bzoltan> if that goes well.. then open the component showcase: /usr/lib/qt-components-ubuntu/demos/launch_componentshowcase
<aquarius> installing
<aquarius> $ /usr/lib/qt-components-ubuntu/demos/launch_componentshowcase
<aquarius> qmlscene: could not exec '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt4/bin/qmlscene': No such file or directory
<aquarius> bzoltan, why's it even trying to use qt4?
<bzoltan> aquarius:  Ahh... of course
<bzoltan> aquarius:  $ sudo apt-get install qt5-default
<aquarius> YEAHHHHH the showcase works!
<bzoltan> aquarius:  So in fact you have the SDK
<aquarius> sweeeeet
<aquarius> bzoltan, you are a hero
<aquarius> I have no idea what all that stuff did, but it worked ;)
<bzoltan> aquarius:  My mail is about how to set up the QtCReator and our plugins
<aquarius> ah, right
<aquarius> I want to do that, indeed
<bzoltan> aquarius:  That is my job dude :) I got paid for knowing these things
<aquarius> but for now I can just happily carry on editing qml in sublimetext like I do now :)
<aquarius> wooooo I can edit things!
<aquarius> mainerror, see the above ;)
<Akiva-Mobile> hey all
<Akiva-Mobile> what do you think will make for a better irc name
<Akiva-Mobile> #worldoftactics, or world-of-tactics?
<Akiva-Mobile> #world-of-tactics*
<Akiva-Mobile> the latter reminds me of Merry-go-round
<Akiva-Mobile> yah, I think I'll stick with #worldoftactics
<dmdrummond> Any ubuntu-clock-app members around?
<Akiva-Mobile> would you rather play a 1v1 real time strategy game with a library of pre built maps, or a random map generator?
<dmdrummond> Akiva-Mobile: are you developing a game targeting Ubuntu phone?
<Akiva-Mobile> dmdrummond: Yes, it will be a platform exclussive for ubuntu and the ubuntu-phone
<Akiva-Mobile> dmdrummond: Its a cross between Front Mission, and World of Tanks
<dmdrummond> Akiva-Mobile: all the best with that, I look forward to seeing it!
<Akiva-Mobile> Tank you
<Akiva-Mobile> hmmm, actually
<Akiva-Mobile> with docking, this could be interesting
<Akiva-Mobile> I will set it so that if you play the game docked, it will set itself to the desktop mode
<bobweaver> weather apis are hard to find.... well free ones that is
<bobweaver> Akiva-Mobile,   you are talking about formfactors ?
<Akiva-Mobile> bobweaver: No opensource storm chasers project?
<bobweaver> I dont know what that is but it has to be XML
<RoyK> any idea about the hardware requirements for up?
<Akiva-Mobile> bobweaver: More or less. I was reading that ubuntu set standards for ppi on different platforms
<bobweaver> that never works  out right lol I have tried that on the TV
<bobweaver> I guess if the weather is "N/A" there is nothing that I can do
<RoyK> I hope there'll be a way to use android apps on this thing
<bobweaver> I have been tinkering around with 3 different api each one has it perks
<bobweaver> http://api.geonames.org/findNearByWeatherXML?lat=48.85341&lng=2.3488&username=bobweaver12345&style=FULL
<Akiva-Mobile> bobweaver: really? My plan is just to have a True false if statement when starting. "If desktop == true, then set mode to FullscreenMode Else set mode to MobileMode
<Akiva-Mobile> RoyK: Ewwww
<RoyK> ew?
<Akiva-Mobile> You heard me.
<Akiva-Mobile> Not a fan of android apps
<Akiva-Mobile> or android really
<Akiva-Mobile> java is bleckh
<RoyK> just thinking it'll be a big boost for UP to allow for use of existing apps
<bobweaver> Akiva-Mobile,  you mean like this ?  https://plus.google.com/u/0/104659991254860976283/posts/H5GKRE3ja2w
<RoyK> it's written in java, but compiled natively
<RoyK> as in, compiled to native machinecode
<bobweaver> I wish that http://w1.weather.gov/ was not just for the USA
<RoyK> bobweaver: try yr.no
<bobweaver> Is that just for norway ?
<RoyK> no
<RoyK> try it
<bobweaver> ok
<Akiva-Mobile> bobweaver: Wow looks great. It must be frustrating seeing your text laden into your icons though :P
<RoyK> they have webservices for the source data
<Akiva-Mobile> I assume headaches await me
<bobweaver> yeah Akiva-Mobile  I got a idea dont like it fix it
<Akiva-Mobile> bobweaver: But yes, basically. Ideally, I would make it smart, assuming there is some flag I can find that will tell me what form factor its running on.
<bobweaver> look at dconf-qt
<Akiva-Mobile> Great, problem solved :P
<bobweaver> it already sets its self up to be TV if screen is bigger then 37 inches
<bobweaver> sorry form-factor TV
<Akiva-Mobile> bobweaver: Wait, are you setting up ubuntu tv for the ubuntu phone?
<Akiva-Mobile> Can you even do that?
<bobweaver> to use the formfactors in a statement we read glib      example     unity2dconfiguration === "tv" ?  do this : do that
<Akiva-Mobile> I have no idea how tv's work. havnt owned one in a decade
<bobweaver> Yes I am  going to port on the 21st
<Akiva-Mobile> Wow, you could really help launch the ubuntu-tv
<Akiva-Mobile> great idea
<Akiva-Mobile> whats this unity2d business though?
<Akiva-Mobile> I thought it was discontinued?
<bobweaver> it is people are crazy though if they want it on Unity 3d hire someone to do it
<bobweaver> I am just a community dude
<Akiva-Mobile> is it really that more complex?
<bobweaver> Akiva-Mobile,  at this point for me I just keep on porting dconf-qt to qt5
<Akiva-Mobile> or did the code already exist prior to that decision, that essentially broke your code?
<bobweaver> correct
<bobweaver> mine and the WHOLE ubuntu tv teams code
<Akiva-Mobile> bobweaver: Ah, Well at least ubuntu does not do that too often, and frankly, your app looks amazing.
<bobweaver> Unity 3d has formfactor TV also
<Akiva-Mobile> didnt your momma ever tell you that tv was bad for yah?
<bobweaver> so what I have been doing for the last 2 weeks is taking all the stuff from Ubuntu  TV (moded unity 2d) and am porting that to standalone qml2
<bobweaver> unity 2d was wrote in qml/qt
<Akiva-Mobile> interesting
<bobweaver> same as phone ;)
<Akiva-Mobile> Do you miss gnome at all?
<Akiva-Mobile> I for one, don't, just curious though
<bobweaver> what are you talking about I use mutter
<bobweaver> and metacity
<RoyK> anyone that knows how UP handles graphics? I hope it's not X...
<bobweaver> qt can read GTK
<Akiva-Mobile> Oh metacity :P
<Akiva-Mobile> RoyK: they are... on the fence with that
<Akiva-Mobile> though its not x,
<Akiva-Mobile> but in regards to wayland
<bobweaver> Akiva-Mobile,  it is the fact that unity 2d is just a shell you can runthat on what ever you want
<Akiva-Mobile> they are talking about whether they should drop wayland and do their own project,
<Akiva-Mobile> giving them more flexibility, at the cost of development resources.
<Akiva-Mobile> bobweaver: Interesting
<bobweaver> Akiva-Mobile,  here is video of pure qml2 formfactor TV tons of bugs and things to fix lol
<bobweaver> https://plus.google.com/u/0/104659991254860976283/posts/Pqzy9ADuoM1
<bobweaver> so my idea is like this have a shell (video) then take all the elements that I have and add them to the SDK thingy
<bobweaver> import Ubuntu.Compents.TV 0.1
<Akiva-Mobile> woah, thats the wierdest sounding bird i have ever heard in my life
 * Akiva-Mobile lives in the woods :P
<Akiva-Mobile> bobweaver: Neato
<bobweaver> Akiva-Mobile,  I would also say if you want to use the docking thingy for info about screens look into qx11ExtraInfo
<bobweaver> http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qtx11extras
<ejat> can someone help me with this bug 1127404
<ubot5> bug 1127404 in qtmultimedia-opensource-src (Ubuntu) "conflict between libqt5multimediaquick5 and libqt5multimediaquick-p5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1127404
<bobweaver> ejat,  what happens if you put the version number after it ?
 * ejat cant understand
<bobweaver> you have also updated and clean?
<ejat> yups .. clean and re-updated
<bobweaver> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install libqt5multimediaquick5=5.0.0-0ubuntu1~test2
<bobweaver> I would also rem0ve all that old stuff to
<ejat> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1665018/
<bobweaver> Oo
<bobweaver> what is apt-cache policy libdeclarative-multimedia
<bobweaver> also what other repos do you have installed ?
<bobweaver> just qt ones
<ejat> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1665027/
<bobweaver> Like do you have the older beta one ?
<ejat> nope
<ejat> no other repo
<bobweaver> Ok
<Akiva-Mobile> bobweaver: Thanks for all your help
<bobweaver> ejat,  libqt5multimediaquick5    and also  libqt5multimediaquick-p5      apt-cache policy  please and thanks
<bobweaver> or  apt-cache search libqt5multimediaquick      should return 2 items maybe you are getting more ?
<ejat> bobweaver: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1665040/
<bobweaver> sudo apt-get --purge remove libqt5multimediaquick-p5
<bobweaver> then try again
<ejat> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1665047/
<bobweaver> if it yells at you add the version number at end
<mainerror__> Oh yea, had the same issue a couple of hours ago.
<bobweaver> in other words
<bobweaver> sudo apt-get --purge remove libqt5multimediaquick-p5=5.0.1-0ubuntu1
<ejat> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1665051/
<mainerror__> Give me a second.
<mainerror__> ejat: You're on Raring right?
<ejat> mainerror__: yes
<ejat> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1665057/
<bobweaver> ejat,  and if you run  apt-get -f install
<mainerror__> ejat: Try this. sudo apt-get remove --purge libqt5multimediaquick5 libqt5multimediaquick-p5 qtmultimedia5-dev libqt5declarative5-qtmultimedia-plugin qt-components-ubuntu-examples ubuntu-sdk
<bobweaver> try that 1st ^^
<bobweaver> what mainerror  said that is
<ejat> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1665067/
<ejat> then reinstall ubuntu-sdk ?
<mainerror> Nope.
<mainerror> ejat: For now we're out of luck regarding the Ubuntu Phone SDK on Raring.
<mainerror> It'll be fixed soon.
<ejat> how about qt-components-ubuntu-examples?
<Akiva-Mobile> Battery is dead, catch you later all o.
<bobweaver> cya Akiva-Mobile
<mainerror> ejat: What do you mean?
<bobweaver> why not just compile then ?
<mainerror> Well I assume it would be possible to compile everything from source if you want the SDK that badly.
<mainerror> I'll wait though.
<bobweaver> like for now download Qt5.0.1 from there site then use that qmake to set it up
<bobweaver> that is what I had to do
 * ejat ill wait too :)
<mainerror> Meh, I'll just wait, bzoltan told me he'll be fixing it soon. :)
<ejat> mainerror: thanks for ya help
<ejat> mainerror: have u file a bug for it ?
<ejat> or u can confirm my bugs ;)
<mainerror> I'm not sure if I really have to, I mean I was in here this morning and reported it right directly to the devs.
<mainerror> If you want to file one, go ahead I'll confirm it.
<bzoltan> mainerror, ejat: We have 5.0.1 packaged here https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-beta-proper/ and if you are on Raring you can have the Qt 5.0.1 from the distro... true that SDK needs some love to fly on Raring
<bzoltan> bobweaver:  I told you on several occasion, several places. Using home-brew Qt release with the Ubuntu Phone SDK  is not recommended.
<bobweaver> bzoltan,  and ? I dont get it. If it is not working then what is one to do ?
<bzoltan> bobweaver:  Ask here and follow the given instructions
<bobweaver> bzoltan,  not trying to "start something" but if it is not work "true that SDK needs some love to fly on Raring"  then that is that ?
<bobweaver> just trying to understand that is all sorry
<bobweaver> and this is what I get for trying to help someone.
<bobweaver> Bull
<bzoltan> bobweaver: The Ubuntu Phone SDK preview is supported officially on Quantal release. The Raring  release of Ubuntu is not final.
<mainerror> God ... I'm so excited about Ubuntu Phone. Like a kid on Christmas Eve.
<ejat> bzoltan: so it is recommended to try the sdk on quantal ?
<bzoltan> mainerror:  Actually, there is a way to get the SDK work on Raring. The problem is that as we upload the Qt 5.0.1 to the distro archives, some of the packages were renamed (distro policy is a strong thing) and that causes the installation of the ubuntu-sdk meta package  from the qt5-proper PPA fail.
<bzoltan> ejat: Quantal is what we tested the most. Raring is a moving target and not everybody is using...
<bzoltan> mainerror:  So, what you can do is to install those Qt5 packages from Raring what is available there and the rest from the qt5-beta-proper
<mainerror> I see.
<mainerror> I'll tr that then.
<bzoltan> mainerror:  it is a bit laboring :) but if you use Raring  you should be ready for some bumps on the road
<mainerror> Oh, I'm aware, don't worry. ;)
<mainerror> I'm a longtime Ubuntu and of course also Ubuntu+1 user.
<mainerror> Been around since Gusty Gibbon I think. heh
<bzoltan> mainerror: Ohh... sorry :) I did not know you are such an oldtimer :) I have more debian experience than ubuntu :) but from repos and packages it is about the same
<mainerror> Yea, packaging is something which has been on my to learn list for quite a while now, I guess I should finally get started to help you guys a bit heh
<bzoltan> mainerror: Consider yourself lucky is you managed to survive without packaging :) making SDK is 99% about packaging
<mainerror> bzoltan: Yea, been "just" a user for way too long now, it's about time to go do something more useful to the project. Even been to UDS-O :D
<mainerror> You know the one in Budapest.
<bzoltan> mainerror:  Nice city :) Used to live there for few years
<mainerror> It really is. I liked the city a lot and this doesn't happen quite so often with me. :)
<love> Problem with recent update to libqtmultimedia5-dev in Raring.  I tried to update it and get a broken dependancy problem.  dpkg returns an error code.  so I have to use dpkg to remove ubuntu-sdk and the library package.  anyone else have this happen?
<love>  Problem with recent update to libqtmultimedia5-dev in Raring.  I tried to update it and get a broken dependancy problem.  dpkg returns an error code.  so I have to use dpkg to remove ubuntu-sdk and the library package.  anyone else have this happen?
<mainerror> love: Try this. sudo apt-get remove --purge libqt5multimediaquick5 libqt5multimediaquick-p5 qtmultimedia5-dev libqt5declarative5-qtmultimedia-plugin qt-components-ubuntu-examples ubuntu-sdk
<mainerror> This should fix apt-get.
<love> mainerror: i fixed apt-get with dpkg -r ubuntu-sdk libqtmultimedia5  I want to know why it is broken really.... THANKS btw for the response
<mainerror> Oh, yea.
<mainerror> 20:04 <bzoltan> mainerror, ejat: We have 5.0.1 packaged here https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-beta-proper/ and if you are on Raring you can have the Qt 5.0.1 from the distro... true that SDK needs some love to fly on Raring
<mainerror> Basically, since Raring is a development version it is not really ready yet.
<love> mainerror: I figured... it was working well until the update a couple days back
<mainerror> There is a 20:22 <bzoltan> mainerror:  Actually, there is a way to get the SDK work on Raring. The problem is that as we upload the Qt 5.0.1 to the distro archives, some of the packages were renamed (distro policy is a strong thing) and that causes the installation of the ubuntu-sdk meta package  from the qt5-proper PPA fail.
<mainerror> s/There is a//
<love> ok.... do you know if it will be in the official repos for this release or will it still be ppa only?
<mainerror> That's something I don't know.
<mainerror> Sorry.
<love> mainerror: thanks so much for the help!!
<mainerror> yw
#ubuntu-phone 2013-02-17
<Akiva-Mobile> So I am curious; what projects for the phone is everyone working on?
<mhall119> Akiva-Mobile: have you seen the list of core apps being developed?
<mhall119> Akiva-Mobile: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps
<Akiva-Mobile> mhall119: No. A flashlight might be good to make a core app, to avoid the market being flooded out of the gate :P
<Akiva-Mobile> For the email client, are you guys thinking of jumping back to evolution?
<dmdrummond> mhall119: Has the name changed from Ubuntu Phone to Touch?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> dmdrummond: Someone told me they are calling it the uPhone now.
<nOStahl> they are changing the name?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> wotac < world of tactics - do you think its a good nickname for it?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> nOStahl: I think I will try and go ahead with the idea of creating a map generator that creates its terrain by reading GoogleMaps (or open maps, whatever)
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I figure it will have enough interest for other projects to find contributors
<Akiva-Thinkpad> and it is indeed, a very neato idea,
<nOStahl> aye open street maps will do that for you np
<nOStahl> terrain data etc.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I always thought of the prospect of a game whos environment perfectly reflected the real world,
<Akiva-Thinkpad> figured it was a pipe dream though given the resources involved. With maps as detailed as they are though...
<SkavenXXI> like this? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nianticproject.ingress
<isaias> hi. I will be able to use C++ to modify my ubuntu phone when it comes out, right?
<dmdrummond> isaias: do you mean to write apps?
<isaias> please dont tell me its going to be like iphone and android apps. s anything wrong with it, i'm just sick of that entire system.
<isaias> not that there's anything wrong with them**
<dmdrummond> isaias: You will need to clarify what you mean in order to get an answer
<isaias> ok, what language do i need to learn to make something i can use on the phone
<dmdrummond> isaias: qml at the moment
<dmdrummond> isaias: although web apps are to be first class citizens too
<dmdrummond> isaias: see here http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
<Akiva-Thinkpad> What is ubuntu's prefferred license?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I assume linus's is gpl3
<nOStahl> this is amazing article http://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/ read it Akiva-Thinkpad :)
<Akiva-Thinkpad> nOStahl: No I decided to go with cvs
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Much better
<nOStahl> ugh
<nOStahl> be prepared to wait around for hours as your code base builds up
<Akiva-Thinkpad> nOStahl: Im kidding
<nOStahl> lol
<Akiva-Thinkpad> nOStahl: Linus says that tarball trading was a much superior management system than cvs
<Akiva-Thinkpad> nOStahl: Did you see his google tech talk on git?
<nOStahl> don't think I did
<Akiva-Thinkpad> As far as google tech talks are concerned, the house was packed with google employees
<nOStahl> I have not had much time to consume content lately just learning jquery and such
<Akiva-Thinkpad> nOStahl: I think it was way back in 08
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I liked old linus. Linus today is rude and vulgar.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> old linus was more contained in public.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Dunno about the kernel mailing list though.
<frankencode> http://imagebin.org/247022
<kostkon_> frankencode, cool
<nOStahl> interesting view
<frankencode> my first shot
<nOStahl> first letter of each day for column headers maybe
<frankencode> M T W T F S S
<frankencode> hmmm....
<nOStahl> or S M T W T F S
<nOStahl> whatever the person's set the start of their week to
<frankencode> yes, it is freely configurable
<frankencode> you can start on friday if you like
<nOStahl> it looks like all the apps have a huge header
<frankencode> it disappears atomagically
<nOStahl> oh good! heh
<nOStahl> I'm a very AVID calendar user
<frankencode> lets see how to goes in landscape
<nOStahl> my zimbra server is mainly for calendars and tasks that happens to serve my email as well lol
<frankencode> i better commit the code now, it's 3:40 in the morning already
<nOStahl> I just got done reading http://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/
<nOStahl> looks to be the way ubuntu schedules its flow too
<frankencode> i'm pretty happy with the merge-only bzr workflow
<nOStahl> i run my own gitlab server and loving it :)
<frankencode> real hackers build their own dominions
<frankencode> ohh, i start to sound like a lisa bot
<nOStahl> are you working on the core calendar app or your own spin?
<frankencode> i'll push it i a second...
<frankencode> https://code.launchpad.net/~frankencode/ubuntu-calendar-app/ubuntu-calendar-app
<frankencode> i'd liked to put the day names on the header separator
<nOStahl> if you want to keep it clean tooâ¦.. maybe when swiping over the days it just fades them in and out
<nOStahl> neat effect and keeps it clean
<nOStahl> people don't REALY need the days to display 100% of the time etc.
<nOStahl> and they will like the play ability of the swiping
<frankencode> the headers are really wasteful
<nOStahl> where it says Calendar >
<nOStahl> ?
<frankencode> yes
<nOStahl> didn't you say they auto fade away
<frankencode> they do
<nOStahl> that little gray bar in-between it and the calendar stays though and everything slides up after Calendar > fades
<frankencode> let's see: "Calendar 2013 >"
<frankencode> guess the design team will kill me for putting the year there
<nOStahl> what do you think of the swipe effect
<nOStahl> for showing the days in that gray bar
<frankencode> showing the weekdays in the separator bar of the tab header?
<frankencode> was my thinking
<nOStahl> aye that gray bar
<frankencode> yes, it's called a separator
<nOStahl> aye
<JuppMCO> Does anyone know if the preview will work on a version Galaxy Nexus?
<JuppMCO> ^verizon
<frankencode> u tell us
<JuppMCO> I guess I'll wait until the 21st
<comjf> howdy guys. Someone told me of a great resource for creating a wrapper for my c++ code into QML, but I lost the link
<comjf> anyone know of good tutorials?
<comjf> I just need bootstrapping information, aka, what libs to link against to actually get the QObject into my c++ code, etc
<RipIT> Someone here who knows if i can use Ubuntu OS in a Nokia smartphone? for example the Nokia Lumia 920.
<dmdrummond> RipIT: Unlikely, currently they are targeting android-phones as they already have kernels and drivers
<sky770> http://www.canonical.com/content/touch-developer-preview-ubuntu-be-published-21-february-2013 << is great but only for nexus / nexus 4
 * sky770 looking forward to HTC DS porting
<rob_w> will we be able to start porting to other/own devices after 21th feb ?
<smartboyhw> rob_w, yes
<smartboyhw> :)
<rob_w> u involved somehow '?
<smartboyhw> rob_w, no. That is what I KNOW of:P
<rob_w> kk cool
<rob_w> i wonder alot about its internals , userspace , libs etc
<smartboyhw> BTW a question from me too: Since Ubuntu ARM builds doesn't support ARMv7 phones, would it mean that it wouldn't support ARMv6 smartphones too
<smartboyhw> ?
<rob_w> why does it not support armv7
<rob_w> imho this is the most spread atm
<smartboyhw> rob_w, sorry armv6 :P
<smartboyhw> s/ARMv7/ARMv6
<smartboyhw> LOL
<rob_w> that makes a difference
<rob_w> i dont care about armv6 ..
<smartboyhw> rob_w, I do care
 * smartboyhw has a Samsung Galaxy Pocket released last year in 2012 and since it is a budget phone it uses ARMv6
<smartboyhw> And Canonical has said that they would support budget phones
<rob_w> true,  budget phones  should be a target, though a not so funny one
<rob_w> but it doubt that they will not have armv6 support at some stage
<rob_w> i bet in the beginning they will show it in all its fancyness and want the power they get
<rob_w> i am actually hoping for a nice stack in order to run it not only on phones but kiosks and industrial heads
<sky770> whoa :O >> "<smartboyhw> BTW a question from me too: Since Ubuntu ARM builds doesn't support ARMv7 phones, would it mean that it wouldn't support ARMv6 smartphones too" wha the frig. ? :D
<smartboyhw> sky770, I meant ARMv6
<smartboyhw> SORRY AGAIN:P
<sky770> if it wouldn't support armv7 hahaha..everyone wha we call "fkd" :D
<sky770> ah nvm
<sky770> :p
<bzoltan> smartboyhw:  I am not an arch expert, but as I remember jaunty, karmic did support ARMv5/6. The v6 Galaxy devices are the Ace and Gio... both two years old. Do you know any recent smartphone what comes with v6?
<smartboyhw> bzoltan, Galaxy Pocket (1 year old, which I am using)
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I am thinking of using Panda for my engine, based on the reception it has, and its bsd license
<Akiva-Thinkpad> anyone have any experience with it?
<bzoltan> smartboyhw:  True... but checking the specs of the Pocket it is pretty much a 2-3 years old story.
<smartboyhw> bzoltan, the story:P
<smartboyhw> It is still in sale here in Hong Kong
<smartboyhw> I bought it in October I think
<bzoltan> smartboyhw:  I have a RaspberryPI for media center :) It is perfect for the purpose and cheap, but I think for a smooth and flawless UI expereince and targeting 14.04 date it is understandable that Ubuntu's choice is the v8 and not the v6. Most of the devices with v6 are cool, nice, but I would not call them fresh :)
<smartboyhw> bzoltan, yeah
<bzoltan> smartboyhw:  But no question :) i would love to use Ubuntu on my R-Pi
<smartboyhw> bzoltan, ;)
<Andy80> bzoltan1, hi! I'm still facing that qmake problem and I'm not able to compile anything :\ do you know how could I fix it?
<Andy80> andrea@andrea-Inspiron-660:~$ qmake
<Andy80> qmake: could not open config file '/usr/share/qtchooser//default.conf': No such file or directory
<bzoltan1> Andy80: Hello, do you have qt5-default installed?
<Andy80> yes it is
<Andy80> "qt5-default is already the newest version"
<Andy80> I can try a re-install maybe...
<Andy80> nope... I reinstalled using Synaptic, but nothing changed
<Andy80> bzoltan1, only qt4-default is not installed, but this is normal since they would conflict
<bzoltan1> Andy80:  Which Qt5  PPA are you using ?
<Andy80> bzoltan1, this http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-sdk-team/ppa/ubuntu
<Andy80> and I also have this http://ppa.launchpad.net/ui-toolkit/ppa/ubuntu
<bzoltan1> Andy80:  That is the SDK.... what about the Qt5?
<Andy80> and also this one http://ppa.launchpad.net/canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-beta-proper/ubuntu
<bzoltan1> Andy80:  Are you using Raring?
<Andy80> no, Quantal
<bzoltan1> Andy80:  That is good. In that case you need a major clean up :)
<bzoltan1> Andy80: http://askubuntu.com/questions/254800/how-can-i-update-the-ubuntu-sdk-preview-from-the-qt-5-beta-ppa-to-the-qt-5-relea/
<Andy80> ah ok, let me give a look :)
<bzoltan1> Andy, you need this command: $ grep ^Package: /var/lib/apt/lists/ppa.launchpad.net*sdk*Packages /var/lib/apt/lists/ppa.launchpad.net*ui-toolkit*Packages /var/lib/apt/lists/ppa.launchpad.net*qt5-beta-proper*Packages |awk '{print $2}'|xargs sudo apt-get -y remove
<bzoltan1> and  sudo ppa-purge ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-beta-proper  and the other two PPAs
<Andy80> NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<Andy80> it's removing even ubuntu-desktop :(
<Andy80> omfg!
<Andy80> please tell me how to undo the previsous command :(
<frankencode> next time run with "-s", first
<Andy80> bzoltan1, it's removing the WHOLE system :(
<bzoltan1> Andy80:  hmm... it should not remove the whole sytem.. I use this command every day to clean up and reinstall the SDK
<bzoltan1> Andy80: Sorry
<Andy80> bzoltan1, look with your own eyes http://pastebin.com/f7qeYXCi :(
<bzoltan1> Andy80:  Do you use KDE? That surely have dependencies on Qt packages
<Andy80> bzoltan1, I'm using Unity....
<Andy80> normal Unity
<Andy80> it, for example, just removed everything related to Wt
<Andy80> Qt
<Andy80> Skype, Spotify etc...
<bzoltan1> de-runtime kdelibs-bin kdelibs5-plugins
<bzoltan1> Ctrl-C is is still on your keyboard, dude
<Andy80> but I didn't want to interrupt the operation in the middle....
<Andy80> it didn't ask me for any confirmation before starting removing packages
<bzoltan1> Andy80:  there is no problem. You haeve the logs, copy and paste  the packages you need and apt-get install them
<bzoltan1>  Andy80: apt-get -y does not ask questions
<Andy80> ok, I'm going to do it right now..
<bzoltan1>  Andy80: I am sorry
<Andy80> nope :\
<Andy80> I just would have preferred to spend the next couple of hours in a different way :P
<bzoltan1> Andy80: it is just one apt-get install, do not worry
<bzoltan1> Andy80: copy the text from the pastebin you gave to a file comm and run this> sudo apt-get install `cat comm |grep Removing|awk '{print $2}'|perl -i -p -e  "s/\n/ /g"`  Yes, it will ask you
<bzoltan1> remove those packages from the list what it can not install with instertin |egrep -v "package|package|package"| before the perl and after the grep Removing
<Andy80> oh... already tried manually.... with this command: http://pastebin.com/sPfEPcsV
<Andy80> I will let this finish first
<bzoltan1> Andy80: cool, you will survive :)
<Andy80> I hope :D
<bzoltan1> Anyhow... you had two UI Toolkit PPA and the qt5 PPA what we use for staging in your system.
<Andy80> the old Qt5 PPA was removed... do I have to remove any other PPA?
<Andy80> bzoltan1, do you want me to post you my repository list somewhere?
<bzoltan1> Andy80: no need. just remove all the Qt5 and UI Toolkit PPAs and packages... make a clean system
<Andy80> bzoltan1, uhmm... so which PPA do I have to leave installed?
<Andy80> installed/enabled I mean
<bzoltan1> Andy80:  do not leave enabled anything... first clan up
<bzoltan1> clean
<Andy80> oh wait then... first let me finish reinstalling ubuntu-desktop and all the old packages...
<Andy80> then I will clean
<bzoltan1> the `dpkg -l|grep Qt` should not list any Qt5 package
<Andy80> why do I need to use dpkg -l|grep Qt ?
<Andy80> p.s: just finished reinstalling my old packages
<bzoltan1> Andy80:  dpkg -l lists all your packages and grep Qt check what Qt packages you have
<Andy80> ok... and once I have the list?
<bzoltan1> Do you see there Qt5 packages?
<Andy80> yes, lot of them
<Andy80> I just reinstalled manually, as I told you
<Andy80> I remove all the Qt5 packages first, ok?
<bzoltan1> OK
<bzoltan1> and purge the PPAs
<Andy80> I just removed a bunch using Synaptic, but using: dpkg -l|grep Qt, I still see a lot of them. I don't know how to remove them all
<Andy80> I'm trying again..
<Andy80> bzoltan1, ok, this is my current situation http://pastebin.com/yPzn1Eqa is it clean now?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> http://imagebin.org/247068 << concept art for the type of game I am developing.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Well, doodle more like it
 * Andy80 will be back later
<bzoltan1> Andy80: looks better. I would clean up the packaged marked with rc: $ dpkg -l|grep Qt|grep rc| xargs sudo dpkg --purge
<OSIEL> what i need to develop app for ubuntu phone?
<mainerror> PAAOOOWW!! I just built my first Ubuntu package. Like a bauce.
<denny_george> v
<bzoltan1> OSIEL: You need this http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
<comjf> Does anyone know any good resources for binding existing c++ classes into QML
<comjf> like starting steps too (what libs to import into eclipse etc)
