#ubuntu-meeting 2005-04-07
<Alessio> ola smurfix
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-04-08
<Kamion> part reboot
<Kamion> oops
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-04-09
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> zelazny.freenode.net
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:dholbach] : Wed 30 March 2005 20:00 UTC: Kernel Team -- https://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/KernelTeamAgenda ||  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<sabdfl> hi all
<zul> hey sabdfl 
* pitti waves
<ogra> hi sabdfl, thanks for the nice mail :)
<pitti> nice short agenda for today :)
<sabdfl> hi guys
<fabbione> hi
<mvo> hi
<sabdfl> did i miss a meeting? thought it was TB at 20h00 UTC?
<zul> it is 20:04 UTC
<pitti> sabdfl: daylight saving... :-)
<sabdfl> so... was there a meeting earlier?
<doko> no
<dholbach> hey sabdfl 
<sabdfl> hi guys
<pitti> hmm, THAT was a short visit :)
<ogra> sabdfl, according to mdz there is no meeting today
<ogra> pitti, he checked the topic ;)
<sabdfl> hi all
<ogra> hi again :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:sabdfl] : Tue 29 March - NO MEETING due to release -- Wed 30 March 2005 20:00 UTC: Kernel Team -- https://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/KernelTeamAgenda ||  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<smurfix> Shortest meeting ever. "Is there a meeting today" "no" "OK then"  ;-)
<sabdfl> sorry all, i forgot about that
<sabdfl> smurfix - how's the Loco situation shaping up, while we're here?
<dholbach> sabdfl: me and a lot of other guys as well
<smurfix> sabdfl: Somewhat slow going, but people start getting organized.
<sabdfl> dholbach: your and a lot of other guys?
<dholbach> <sabdfl> sorry all, i forgot about that
<smurfix> sabdfl: I have lots of provisional team entries that aren't quite where I'd be happy to include them in the official llist.
<smurfix> sabdfl: I've also spent some time setting up wiki / weblog / forum software on my server for locoteams
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> smurfix: in Sydney we could actually start to spec out a Launchpad structure for the teams
<sabdfl> so we can generate lists of the participants very easily
<sabdfl> and publish it all on the web
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:lamont] : Tue 29 March - NO MEETING due to release || Wed 30 March 2005 20:00 UTC: Kernel Team -- https://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/KernelTeamAgenda ||  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
* lamont fixes the topic. :-)
<smurfix> sabdfl: I haven't heard back from the Linode.com people yet. As it is right now, a separate server (even if virtual w/ UML or Xen) for every team is severe overkill.
<smurfix> sabdfl: (though I emailed them three times or so)
<smurfix> sabdfl: A more formal structure in Launchpad is a good idea; prototyping it in the Wiki (which is what we're doing ;-) really helps
<dholbach> smurfix: that sounds really exciting
<dholbach> we should do that for future motu-teams as well
<dholbach> so the team-building structure on launchpad should be pretty generic
<dholbach> and blogs / rss-feeds sounds thrilling :-)
<smurfix> dholbach: Exactly. A few people have collected lists of users+keyids+roles on various pieces of electronic paper, I'd be happy to have that in software
<dholbach> smurfix: rocking... will be great to talk about it with you guys
<ajmitch_> morning
<sabdfl> smurfix, dholbach: sorry, got caught up elsewhere
<sabdfl> yes, the team building infrastructure in launchpad is very generic
<dholbach> sabdfl: i phoned with ogra...  so no harm done :-)
<sabdfl> you can have teams of teams, for example
<dholbach> sabdfl: i have some rss ideas to make gathering of information easier for teams, i'd like to propose it at UDU :-)
<sabdfl> cool
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-04-10
* dilinger gets home from the airport just in time
<fabbione> dilinger: ehhe
<pitti> Hi dilinger 
<dilinger> hi :)
<zyga> pitti: hello :)
<lamont> hi fabbione 
<fabbione> hi lamont 
<fabbione> -5 minutes
<fabbione> plenty of time :)
<zul> hey dilinger 
<lamont> heh.
* lamont does a server i386 install
<lamont> T-Bone: perms fixed
<T-Bone> lamont: thx 
<T-Bone> lamont: figures are getting nicer ;)
<zul> blah..
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> it's 20:00 UTC
<fabbione> let's get started
<fabbione> everybody is welcome to partecipate
<fabbione> but please stay on-topic
<fabbione> the first item on the agenda is:
<fabbione> "Any remaining post-release-candidate panic items before hoary?"
<fabbione> we are clearly full freeze.
<fabbione> and we have one critical bug
<fabbione> but nobody has been able to debug/fix it
<fabbione> so i guess hoary will have to live with it
<zul> which bug is this?
<pitti> you mean CAN-2004-0173?
<fabbione> zul: it's assigned to me. the one about i386 not booting.
<zul> ah ok
<fabbione> pitti: no i am coming to that one
<pitti> okay, because it's mostly academic
<fabbione> so the only thing left to do from now until the 6th (last possible date for uploads) is security
<fabbione> pitti did a very neat job here:
<fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve.html
<fabbione> out of that list there 2/3 security fixes that would be nice to have, but they are not mandatory for hoary
<fabbione> + CAN-2005-1073
<fabbione> pitti: want to explain to the rest of the team?
<Amaranth> CAN-2004-0173 seems to have something to do with Apache and cygwin?
<pitti> no
<pitti> it's a mostly academic bug
<pitti> about reading setuid files which are actually only executable
<pitti> we thought that we fixed it ages ago, but unfortunately it's not
<pitti> no patch so far, so we have to wait
<fabbione> adn this is common mistake across all distros
<fabbione> so it's not only us affected by this problem
<pitti> yeah, all of them just took the upstream patch
<smurfix> Nobody actually verified whether the patch works?
<pitti> but since we don't ship any executable-only binaries, and Debian Policy mandates readability anyway,
<fabbione> smurfix: it doesn't
<pitti> smurfix: there is no patch
<pitti> suid binaries from packages are not affected anyway
<pitti> I will notify you if I have anything new about this issue
<smurfix> Your statements are mutually exclusive, but OK ;-)
<pitti> smurfix: ?
<Amaranth> Do you have a URL to where this is descrived?
<Amaranth> err, described
<fabbione> smurfix: what we believed it was a fix, didn't work
<pitti> smurfix: I mean, we only ship them with read+executable
<pitti> smurfix: we don't ship any only-executable binaries (which are a pretty stupid idea anyway)
<pitti> http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CAN-2004-1073
<smurfix> pitti: Yeah, I know, sorry -- I meant: if there's no patch, then this nonexistent patch can't work-or-not-work
<fabbione> ok somebody needs to go again through pitti's list to double check we did not miss known fixes
<fabbione> who voluteers for that?
<Amaranth> oh, 1073. you said 0173 the first time
* pitti raises hand
<fabbione> pitti: ok, that's your.
<pitti> Amaranth: sorry, 1073, right
<pitti> fabbione: I need to reprocess this list anyway
<fabbione> pitti: ok perfect.
<fabbione> since we are talking about security now
<pitti> fabbione: tomorrow's run will clean it up further, then I look over it again
<fabbione> pitti, do you want to define any specific procedure for hoary-security kernel uploads??
<Amaranth> pitti: So it's only a problem if you have an executable binary that isn't readable?
<fabbione> Amaranth: correct
<pitti> Amaranth: yeah, the vuln allows you to read it anyway
* Amaranth wonders why anyone would do that
<pitti> I'd like to have one person I can bother with undisclosed stuff
<zul> Amaranth: safer than sorry
<pitti> fabbione: that would be you, or lamont if you are not available?
<pitti> other than that I'd like to keep the current practice
<fabbione> pitti: i think we should be at least 2 and i agree for me
<lamont> pitti: I'm available
<fabbione> lamont: ?
<pitti> I collect information and manage the status and advisories, and you/lamont build the packages
<pitti> and upload them
<pitti> is that okay for you?
<fabbione> pitti: due to the new building system. we need to follow certain procedures too
<fabbione> pitti: yes.
<pitti> in particular?
<fabbione> it is ok for me
<fabbione> pitti: we need to test/build the kernel all arches before each upload
<fabbione> to verify the ABI integrity
<pitti> I'd like to introduce a basic testing pattern before an upload happens
<fabbione> if the ABI breaks due to a fix
<pitti> ABI> that's great
<fabbione> we will need to do more than just one upload
<lamont> fabbione: either we don't check in the embargoed source changes, or we need an embargoed baz repository (either is doable)
<fabbione> lamont: i used an embargoed repo for that
<fabbione> lamont: i simply don't commit the changes to the repo
<fabbione> and use my local one for test/build
<pitti> I think we need to define some testing policy
<fabbione> mdz, pitti: did we ever agree on how to handle an ABI change for a security fix?
<pitti> yes, I think so
<zul> i think the embargoed baz repository is good because if either lamont or fabbione than one of you can get a security fix if its critical
<fabbione> pitti: sure. what are your reccomendations?
<pitti> the crucial point is that we pre-add the next ABI number
<pitti> so that the l-r-m build can see the new kernel in the queue
<fabbione> pitti: the previous actually :)
<pitti> previous?
<dilinger> you guys have the same ABI d-i problems that debian does for security fixes, right?
<lamont> zul: embargoed repository is trivial for fabbione and I to set up...
<lamont> just requires ssh access to the same machine somewhere
<fabbione> dilinger: yes. that's something we need to discuss at UDU
<pitti> l-r-m must be built against the new kernel, but that isn't in the archive yet
<jbailey_> fabbione: Isn't it less ugly since we generate the udeb's for the kernel packages directly?
<pitti> but the buildd can use the pending queue
<fabbione> jbailey_: yes, but we still need a lot of work for an ABI change
<jani> fabbione which is the 386 not booting critical bug?
<dilinger> fabbione: ok.  i figured it was the case, but i wasn't positive.
<fabbione> jani: i don't have it handy.. it has been downgraded to Major, but still pretty sever
<jani> ok I'll search bugzilla
<fabbione> pitti: i am not really afraid of the build sequence problem
<fabbione> i am more concern to understand
<pitti> fabbione: that's mostly an elmo-ish problem
<fabbione> linux-source -> hoary-security
<fabbione> l-r-m -> ?
<fabbione> linux-meta -> ?
<fabbione> d-i -> ?
<lamont> fabbione: the key is that nothing be NEW during the process
<fabbione> + we have all the seeding problems, but at this point i am not 100% sure how they are handled by elmo when it goes to security
<pitti> it's still hoary-security
<pitti> fabbione: the buildd sorts out main/restricted/universe etc.
<fabbione> lamont: the problem is if a security fix breaks the ABI
<pitti> fabbione: erm, s/buildd/katie/
<fabbione> lamont: we have seen it in warty and we can expect it for hoary
<fabbione> lamont: the issue is how do we want to handle all the syncage of the other packages
<lamont> fabbione: right.  and the solution is to make sure that nothing is NEW when we roll the ABI.  then there's the question of what to do with the outdated abi version...
<fabbione> the outdated cannot be removed
<pitti> for Warty, elmo pre-added the next 10 ABI versions
<pitti> we should do the same for Hoary
<fabbione> make sense
<pitti> maybe the new kernel version should conflict with the old ABI number?
<fabbione> + we can add a bit of extracare in not releasing an ABI change for each fix, but try to queue tehm a bit
<pitti> to force removal of the old package, is that what you mean?
<fabbione> pitti: there is no point in that. they are 2 different packages and lands in 2 different dirs
<lamont> fabbione: but effectively it means that say, there's a security vul in linux-image-2.6.10-5-686 that will never be fixed. (because that's in 2.6.10-6)
<pitti> that's what I mean with the conflict and replace
<pitti> so the user won't keep an outdated kernel version around
<fabbione> it's dangerous to do that
<Mithrandir> I suck, I forgot about the meeting. :(
<fabbione> i mean it's the counter side of the coin
<pitti> yeah, I just wanted to know whether this is the problem you talked about
<fabbione> we might end up in removing the running kernel
<fabbione> that is really BAD!
<pitti> oh, right
<pitti> okay, let's forget about this proposal
<fabbione> we need to keep the following practise and improve for breezy
<fabbione> pitti: is there anything else you want us to be ready for security related issues?
<fabbione> just to sum up:
<Mithrandir> fabbione: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html seems fairly useless ATM; is there a log somewhere?
<fabbione> 1) lamont, fabbione: contact points
<fabbione> 2) pitti sends the patches
<fabbione> 3) 1) gets them, apply/test and upload
<fabbione> Mithrandir: the log is uploaded every hour
<pitti> re 3) we should coordinate and ack an upload to each other
<lamont> Mithrandir: will spew in private window
<pitti> fabbione: otherwise that's fine
<fabbione> pitti: ok.
<fabbione> lamont: does it work for you?
<Mithrandir> lamont: yes please.
<lamont> fabbione: sounds good
<fabbione> ok
<zul> what if both of you arent available 
<fabbione> is there anything else we need to look into before hoary is out?
<pitti> then we are doomed :-)
<zul> ok cool :)
<Amaranth> what if pitti isn't available? :)
<fabbione> zul: pitti will be our backup with the support of the rest of the team :-)
<zul> ok just playing devil's advocat
<Mithrandir> has there been any discussions surrounding the problem when resuming and the kernel versions don't match?
<fabbione> Amaranth: if pitti is unavaliable we are all r00t3d
<pitti> I know how to build a kernel and how to do patches
* Amaranth preemptively (sp?) asks questions
<pitti> but you guys have far more experience with it
<pitti> so I only want to do this if it's really necessary
<fabbione> pitti: in case both lamont and i will be unavailable you can coordinate with zul and dilinger
<pitti> hmm, I plan to go to vacation one week before UDU
<pitti> no security from my side then
<pitti> fabbione: ack
<fabbione> since they both know the building system 
* T-Bone knows it as well ;}
<pitti> if I'm not available, then mdz is the logical fallback
* T-Bone ducks
<fabbione> ok
<pitti> mdz is on vendor-sec
<fabbione> we are covered for security
<pitti> ack
<fabbione> pitti: ack that
<fabbione> i think we can thanks pitti for the security part
<fabbione> pitti: you are free from us :)
<fabbione> and thanks for coming
<pitti> and fabbione for his excellent hoary work!
<pitti> no worries :-)
<pitti> fabbione: my gf lays beside me and sleeps...
<T-Bone> pitti: lucky man ;)
<fabbione> pitti: eh my wife does too already 
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> #
<fabbione> Breezy plan
<pitti> bye folks
<fabbione> cya pitti
<fabbione> it's up to us how long we want to talk about this
<fabbione> we have a very long planned BOF @ UDU
<fabbione> is there anybody that wants to discuss any particular topic on the list?
<fabbione> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuDownUnderBOFs <-
<zul> hold on a sec..its slow
<fabbione> sure
<zul> oh yes...bk snapshot
<fabbione> zul: go ahead
<zul> so the way i have a look at it is that you have a bk snapshot and a stable image correct?
<fabbione> correct
<fabbione> something we tried with 2.6.11 but didn't really work due to time (mainly)
<zul> so the bk snapshot is going to be apart of main or universe?
<fabbione> universe
<zul> motu is not going to like that ;)
<fabbione> we really do not want to support bk snapshots
<T-Bone> fabbione: what's the point of a packaged bk snapshot?
<fabbione> motu will have almost nothing to do with it
<fabbione> we need to find a way to build them automatically
<fabbione> almost on a daily base
<fabbione> T-Bone: testing, before backporting fixes
<T-Bone> fabbione: my understanding is that such snapshots would do nothing but hog builders CPU
<Mithrandir> we have enough buildd power, so I wouldn't be too worried about that
<fabbione> T-Bone: most of the time we hear: "this is fixed in bk". 
<fabbione> so ok.. install that kernel and let us know
<T-Bone> fabbione: bk snapshots don't represent anything correlating to a "release" or some "known state" of any kind, if i'm right
<zul> fabbione: well then you cant call it something like 2.6.12-rc whatever you are going to have to call it different because users are going to try it
<fabbione> zul: i was considering linux-source-bleeding-edge
<fabbione> or something like that
<T-Bone> -rc kernels seem much more meaningful to me
<fabbione> it doesn't need to respect ABI or anything
<fabbione> just be tehere
<zul> and if the users try it? say in the bug report that its not supported?
<fabbione> T-Bone: bk is like any other revision control system around. it has tags and so on.. we just want to have HEAD
<T-Bone> they have known changelogs, represent a known state point, etc
<T-Bone> fabbione: my point is just that -bk may actually not build more than 20% of the flavours in some case (all archs included)
<fabbione> zul: we need to ask the users to use a bk kernel on debugging request to verify that a certain bug is fixed upstream or not
<fabbione> we don't want a user to run it as normal kernel
<T-Bone> fabbione: ie, -bk might be *known to be broken*
<fabbione> that's why it would be in universe
<zul> got it but some users will is my point
<fabbione> T-Bone: yes i am aware of that.
<lamont> just call it 2.6.11-broken
<T-Bone> fabbione: as zul said. Something like this shouldn't go in the archive, imho
<fabbione> zul: that's their problem...
* zul shrugs
<fabbione> no i am serious..
<zul> no i agree 
<dilinger> T-Bone: that would be a good thing
<T-Bone> fabbione: if that's for our own testing usage, we can have it in some other archive, can't we?
<T-Bone> dilinger: what?
<fabbione> if we add a proper description and it is in universe
<dilinger> T-Bone: it would be an easy way for people working on archs to see that they need to be feeding linus fixes
<T-Bone> dilinger: true, but that's not our purpose, as i see it
<dilinger> versus grabbing the latest 2.6.x and realizing, hey, it doesn't build on my arch
<fabbione> T-Bone: it can be as side-effect
<T-Bone> dilinger: besides, most of the time, that kind of patches are already on their way to linus when the bk snapshot is taken
<dilinger> T-Bone: then it gives them incentive to ensure linus applies it :)
<zul> fabbione: i agree just make sure the description says something like NOT FOR REGULAR DAY USE or something
<T-Bone> dilinger: heh. Or gives linus incentive to drop them because he's sent several times the same patch? ;o)
<fabbione> zul: that is kinda what i meant
<zul> fabbione: gotcha
<dilinger> T-Bone: something like that.  linus loves being patchbombed, maybe the porters can write a script to email linus patches twice a day ;)
<T-Bone> fabbione, zul: what about adding some kind of preinst script that would default to "not install" asking the user whether he is 1) really sure he wants to do that or 2) really stupid? :}
<T-Bone> dilinger: that script exist :)
<T-Bone> dilinger: ask willy ;)
<zul> T-Bone: that would be fine for me at least description is fine though
<fabbione> T-Bone: whatever you have in your mind is fine, just send me the patches :)
<T-Bone> zul: most users don't read package description when they look for a specific package
<T-Bone> fabbione: hehe :)
<dilinger> T-Bone: i'm not sure if it's clear, but i would recommend it only does it on fresh installs
<T-Bone> dilinger: true
<dilinger> T-Bone: if upgrading a bleeding edge kernel, it shouldn't prompt the user
<zul> just send a shock when they install it :)
<T-Bone> dilinger: got that
<fabbione> ok so i think we all agree that having a bk snapshot around is good
<zul> i guess we'll see how it goes :)
<fabbione> the main issue is having it "naked" or "full-feature"
<T-Bone> i didn't say i think it's good, but I understand the points that have been raised pro such a package :)
<zul> i would say the same features we have on our own kernels
<T-Bone> my personnal feeling would have been to use -rc kernels
<fabbione> zul: most of the patches will start not to apply to a bk snapshot
<dilinger> fabbione: the obvious benefit of full-feature is that we can see when rarely-used drivers break.  of course, that'll increase FTBFSs
<fabbione> or not to compile
<fabbione> dilinger: exactly, and maintaince of these patches in a bk snapshot env is extremely time consuming
<zul> fabbione: i mean the same options that we have minus third party drivers
<zul> ie ipw2200 et al
<fabbione> zul: dilinger has a point
<T-Bone> fabbione: and pointless, since a snapshot is "moving" by essence
<fabbione> T-Bone: it's not pointless
<fabbione> since at a certain point that bk snapshot will be released as 2.6.X
<fabbione> and you have the patches already rediffed for it
<T-Bone> fabbione: not absolutely piontless, i understand that, since you prepare what will be needed for the next release,
<fabbione> in a RCS
<fabbione> right now preparing a new upstream release takes me approx 2 days of work
<fabbione> 1 to scream the patches
<T-Bone> still, you'll probably end up doing several time the same work on a given patch because the system it applies to has changed in various ways between snapshot, before stabiliziing
<fabbione> 2 to make it build on 3 arches
<T-Bone> hence my opinion that we should use -rc
<T-Bone> fabbione: ^^^
<fabbione> yes i understand
<fabbione> ok since we have several options, we will need to evaluate which one works better
<T-Bone> fabbione: what you plan to do would (imho) be best achieved using -rc kernels
<zul> or if you want to release a snapshot monitor lkml for one or 2 days and then move to a new snapshot
<fabbione> we can also have bk on a weekly base
<T-Bone> fabbione: i'm saying that to spare you the overhead of dealing with moving -bk, mind you.
<fabbione> it doesn't need to be daily
<T-Bone> fabbione: i think that your goal is smoother and faster kernel transitions. Using -bk *might* end up to the exact opposite
<dilinger> i think bk on a weekly basis is a nice compromise
<zul> i agree
<T-Bone> this would probably be better, but this wouldn't solve the issues i've raised
<smurfix> I think so too. Minimally we should do -rc
<T-Bone> given that you might *fall* on that particular -bk snapshot that will be completely reverted/changed/corrected 2h later
<fabbione> T-Bone: that can happen always
<T-Bone> given fabbione's needs, -rc seem to fit the prerequisites better
<dilinger> T-Bone: if the subsystem that a patch applies to is being reworked, and you know the patch is just going to fail to apply again, there should probably be a way to temporarily disable the patch, or something like that
* fabbione points T-Bone to 2.4.11 announcment
<T-Bone> (that's the analyst speaking ;)
<fabbione> given fabbione's needs <- kernel team
<T-Bone> dilinger: there is. It just increase the work on the kernel (tracking down the faulty patch, trigger a build again, and a build *takes time*)
<zul> well if the workload is a problem then split it up
<fabbione> it's not only me
<T-Bone> fabbione: 2.4.11? That was ages ago. Things have (hopefully) changed a bit :)
<T-Bone> fabbione: i understand, and i also speak in the interest of the team (or so i hope) :)
<fabbione> T-Bone: stuff like that still happens... see 2.4.15 ? from Marcello?
<fabbione> anyway
<T-Bone> 2.4.15?
<zul> er...a bit offtopic
<fabbione> we need some kind of snapshotting...
<T-Bone> seems mostly irrelevant to me
<T-Bone> right. My 2 cents is "use -rc". 'nuff said ;)
<fabbione> who would like to start looking at it?
<fabbione> even just a simple analysis of pro and cons
<fabbione> that we will bring up @ UDU again
* zul raises his hand..
<dilinger> well, even using -rc would be beneficial to just waiting for the next 2.6.x.  so, my vote is for either a weekly bk or rc (and it might be worthwhile to try one or the other and see how much work it actually ends up being)
<fabbione> zul: ok, it's your
<fabbione> rc happens too slowly imho to be used for this kind of test
<zul> one more from the wiki :)
<fabbione> nothing ensures that we will get an rc in the 3 months of breezy development
<fabbione> zul: ok.. go ahead (again)
<T-Bone> fabbione: question is "do we need to go faster than -rc to speed up our own transition?"
<zul>  Broader time-based community kernel tree
<zul> ??
<fabbione> T-Bone: we need to be faster than rc in backporting bug fixes.
<T-Bone> fair enough
<fabbione> zul: i think mdz added that one
<zul> ah ok..
<fabbione> let's ask him
<mdz> that's a sabdfl thing
<fabbione> oh
<fabbione> do you know what he means exactly?
<dilinger> maybe he means something like -as?  or more in line w/ ubuntu, fixes + acpi +..?
<fabbione> i think sabdfl is not around
<fabbione> zul: sorry, but i don't have a clear answer for that
<zul> fabbione: no probs...ill shut up now with the wiki stuff :)
<fabbione> ok last call for item 2) in the agenda
<fabbione> anybody else wants to discuss any of the points in the wiki?
<T-Bone> Build fewer flavours
<zul> other than me
<fabbione> all that stuff will mostlikely be part of breezy
<fabbione> T-Bone: go ahead
<fabbione> (mdz is here.. so he can answer that ;))
<T-Bone> hehe, well, what's the idea behind that point?
<T-Bone> i mean, what kind of "flavours" would be candidate for removal?
<mdz> I'm in another meeting right now, so please ask direct questions if you need answers
<lamont> T-Bone: if 686-smp is not significantly slower than 686, why build both?
<lamont> for example.
<T-Bone> lamont: ok, so that's a "smp vs up" thing?
<fabbione> T-Bone: not only
<fabbione> if 686 can boot k7.. why do we build k7?
<fabbione> it's a global cleanup of flavours
<T-Bone> my point is basically that 1) it's a good thing not to have too many flavours but 2) it's a good thing to have a kernel matching the user's architecture as best as possible, since kernel is a CPU sensitive thing
* lamont expects that most of the k7/686 differences in the kernel are invisible to the end users...  ABX time, eh?
<T-Bone> giving a precise example:
<T-Bone> all pmacs can run ppc601 code,
<T-Bone> but not running an altivec enabled kernel on an altivec machine is quite a loss
* dilinger agrees w/ lamont, and actually runs 686 kernels on an amd machine currently
<fabbione> T-Bone: the point is more like: what happen if i enable altivec on a non-altivec machine?
<T-Bone> it doesn't work
<T-Bone> err
<fabbione> perfect, than you need 2 flavours
<T-Bone> no it does
<T-Bone> my example was bad
<fabbione> than one flavour is enough
<jbailey_> You should get SIGILLs for altivec on a non-capable machine.
<lamont> T-Bone: where an ABX comparison says there's a clear benefit, you build two flavors.  Where it doesn't, and still works on both, you don't
<T-Bone> ok
<T-Bone> that's fine by me, let's drop that now, it can be clarified later,
<fabbione> ok
<lamont> ABX: I give you A and B and some unknown.  Tell me which it is.
<T-Bone> but in regard to what was said (fewer flavours):
<T-Bone> Add a -dbg flavour? or enanche the kernel debugging.
<T-Bone> that doesn't seem to make much sense to me
<fabbione> T-Bone: -dbg is not a flavour
<T-Bone> ?
* lamont notes that, like many feature laundry lists, this one has some internal conflict
<T-Bone> lamont: hehe ;)
<fabbione> flavours are 386, 686, k7 and so on
<fabbione> each of them adds a config and complexity for the user
<fabbione> a -debug is probably less confusing than 383/686
<T-Bone> i disagree
<T-Bone> some users are confused by -smp
<lamont> esp since 386 doesn't run on 386 machines, I expect. :-)
<fabbione> lamont: nope.. minimum is 486
* T-Bone remembers he needs to update the desc on 2.4 hppa kernels, has a bugreport for that
<T-Bone> fabbione: what would be the point of a -dbg kernel?
<lamont> T-Bone: debugging, of course.
<T-Bone> fabbione: asking the user to install it in case of a problem?
<fabbione> T-Bone: the answer is embedded in the question
<fabbione> T-Bone: exactly
<T-Bone> fabbione: i *mean* the question
<T-Bone> ok
<T-Bone> makes sense
<T-Bone> i'm done with questions
<fabbione> there are tons of debugging features we do not build
<zul> im for less flavours
<dilinger> how many users are actually going to make use of -dbh?
<dilinger> er, -dbg
<fabbione> simply because they slowdown the machine to death
<T-Bone> dilinger: none unless we ask them
<dilinger> right
<T-Bone> besides, none of those using it will be able to decypher the debug output
<fabbione> dilinger: these packages will still land in universe
<dilinger> so, why not have debugging enabled on everything in the -bk or -rc kernels?
<T-Bone> that has to be kept in mind
<dilinger> if a user has a problem, ask them to try a -bk kernel
<dilinger> if it still happens, you'll have lots of debugging info from that
<fabbione> dilinger: right...
<lamont> is this really the time to be having the BOF?
<T-Bone> that doesn't work for QA releases
<lamont> or just to be adding things to the list for the BOF?
<fabbione> lamont: it's just discussing a few points that people feel more sensible about
<fabbione> since not all the team will be at UDU
* T-Bone won't be attending the BOF, dropping ideas...
<T-Bone> lamont: as fabbione just said :)
<lamont> ok.
<lamont> just wanted to throw that process-check in there
<fabbione> oky doky
<T-Bone> my objection to what dilinger said is that if the -dbg kernel is to be used on stable releases, it needs to be the same version as the one in the release
<fabbione> is there any other item that we should discuss here?
<Mithrandir> I have two small things which would be very useful for breezy:  a linux-source meta-package which tracks the latest kernel-source in main.  The other is integration with the notifier so the user will be told that "you need to reboot, else resume after suspend won't work and you really, really want to reboot now"
<lamont> obviously, we should start a discussion on kernel-team about various of the items, with summaries going back to the wiki page, so that we can finish the BOF in < 10 hours at UDU
<T-Bone> lamont: definitely
<Mithrandir> especially the latter is _painful_ for laptops where you suspend to disk. :)
<fabbione> lamont: that's exactly what i was going to ask you to do :)
<fabbione> lamont:ehehe
<jbailey_> fabbione: At some point we should figure out if initramfs generation should be integrated with kernel builds.
<fabbione> lamont
<fabbione> .i did send the email to kernel-team
<lamont> fabbione: works for me
<fabbione> no replies
<fabbione> that was a few days back
<fabbione> so my believe is that 1) nobody gives cares 2) nobody is subbed to kernel-team
<zul> yeah i been going through the list..just havent responded yet
<lamont> fabbione: or still burried
<fabbione> jbailey_: patches are always welcome :)
<T-Bone> fabbione: i guess i missed it
<lamont> probably makes sense to fragment the list into bite-sized pieces and being spamomaticide
<fabbione> T-Bone: i tend to agree with you. -dbg should match the stable release
<jbailey_> fabbione: No, the question is whether it should happen that way.  I already have patches to make it work. =)
<fabbione> but i also understand dilinger point
<T-Bone> so do i
<fabbione> jbailey_: i think we can discuss it on kernel-team ml
<jbailey_> fabbione: 'kay.
* T-Bone usually understands most of the points he's contradicting with ;o(
<T-Bone> s/;o(/;o)/
<dilinger> fabbione: has no one sent mail to k-t in the past few days?
<fabbione> jbailey_: i don't know enough about it to be able to open a full discuss now
<fabbione> dilinger: the last mail was from lamont
<dilinger> the gmane list still hasn't been created, despite the email i got on sunday or so saying it would be created as soon as a message was sent to the lis
<dilinger> t
<dilinger> fabbione: when was that
<fabbione> call for this meeting
<fabbione> 23-03
<dilinger> ok, it was definitely after that.  someone should send something ;)
<fabbione> it looks to me we all agree we need some kind of -dbg flavour, one way or another integrated in -bk or -dbg
<fabbione> anything else from point 2)?
<fabbione> 3
<fabbione> 2
<fabbione> 1
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> point 2 is closed :)
<T-Bone> :)
<fabbione> is there any other business that we should discuss today?
<fabbione> (note: my wife is already snoring.. so i have all night)
<T-Bone> lol
<Simira> fabbione: hey, I'm home alone and lonely! Be done!
* Mithrandir wonders if his two points drowned or if he is being ignored. :/
<fabbione> Mithrandir: yes i got them :)
* T-Bone agrees with Mithrandir suggestions
<Mithrandir> fabbione: ok, so just accepted without further comment, then?
<fabbione> i agree on the linux-source meta package. that is easy 
<fabbione> Mithrandir: if you have some kind of solution for the second point about throwing up warnings, perhaps it can be integrated with t-bone idea of yelling at the user, when installing -bk packages
<Mithrandir> the latter should be fairly easy too, but might need some changes in the notification tool so you have a way for it to only be displayed if "this will be the next default kernel and doesn't match the running kernel".
<zul> debconf message or something 
<fabbione> Mithrandir: that sounds more an ABI change notification
<fabbione> screw debconf to death
<Mithrandir> zul: no, not debconf, 
<fabbione> no debconf will ever enter in the kernel package
<Mithrandir> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InteractiveUpgradeHooks
<lamont> Mithrandir: that notification stuff
<Mithrandir> that can do it, but it might need some changes.
<lamont> Mithrandir: yeah - taht
<dilinger> fabbione: heh, isn't manoj planning on adding debconf to kernel-package?
<T-Bone> he's mad
<T-Bone> he needs fixture ;}
<fabbione> dilinger: at that point i will just write my own kernel-package :)
<Mithrandir> an "be annoying" option; I tend to not see notification icon and a command which should be run to see whether the notification should be displayed.
<zul> Mithrandir: electric shocks :0
<fabbione> zul ++
<Mithrandir> zul: that's a bit extreme. ;)
<zul> nah..:)
<zul> next..
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> it seems nobody have any other business
<fabbione> lamont: are you going to send a mail to kernel-team?
<zul> wait...one more...after breezy is released what is going to happen to all of those open bugs?
<T-Bone> zul: they will all be magically closed ;)
<fabbione> zul: we will need to keep checking them
<fabbione> like we do now
<lamont> fabbione: sure - I'll split the list from the wiki up into bite sized pieces and play spaminator
<zul> ok got it
<fabbione> lamont: ok
<fabbione> anything more?
<fabbione> 3
<fabbione> 1
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> meeting is closed
<lamont> fabbione: you forgot 2
<fabbione> thanks everybody
<fabbione> lamont: i know :)
<zul> lamont: it was hex ;)
<fabbione> it was to type faster
<fabbione> cya everybody and have a good<whatever_is_in_your_tz>
<T-Bone> thx, cya
<jbailey_> =)
* Mithrandir runs off
<zul> wohoo...i can go home...sortof
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-03
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 16:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 16:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council
* highvoltage rolls drums
<highvoltage> 2 minutes to meeting!
* ogra is particulary busy with flight-6
<JaneW> hi
<pips1> hello all
<JaneW> ogra: it going to be out today?
<ogra> looks like
<ogra> latest tomorrow
<ogra> depends which kind of bugs we'll find testing it
* kjcole yawns and rubs eyes...
<flint> good morning campers...
<highvoltage> hi mr flint 
<flint> kjcole, is this the right channel?  it is 07:03 and I hav not pissed anyone off yet!
<flint> highvoltage, good morning jonathan!!
<highvoltage> yay! only one h!
<kjcole> flint, shhh.  I'm pretending to still be blissfully asleep.
<jelkner> flint: call me back, i didn't get to tell you about the next hack yet
<flint> highvoltage, remember what i always say jonathan, there is only one "I" in idiot...
<highvoltage> who's here and who's not?
<flint> :^)
* highvoltage is Jonathan Carter
<jelkner> ogra: did you see my bablings on #edubuntu yesterday?
<highvoltage> :)
* kjcole is Kevin Cole
<JaneW> ok we have a silent ogra
* jelkner is Jeffrey Elkner
<JaneW> preparing edubuntu flight 6
<ogra> JaneW, s/silent/busy/
<ogra> :)
<JaneW> ogra: is edubuntu dapper basically done now?
* ogra is OliverGrawert
<ogra> JaneW, apart from artwork and CD pressing i think so ...
<JaneW> ogra: excellent, thanks and WELL DONE
<ogra> thats also my tech update ... :) 
<JaneW> way ahead of the original schedule even
<highvoltage> wow, that was a short tech update! :)
<ogra> new and improved artwork package, flight-6 preparation 
<JaneW> ogra: you showing off your artwork in flight 6?
<ogra> yep
* JaneW will have to get highvoltage to demo
<ogra> thats why i have to rebuild it currently ...
* JaneW realises she started here 1 year ago tomorrow...
<highvoltage> ogra: Bluekuja and I will rally up some testers, we also want to work with you to create a kind of a standard testing feedback form/checklist
<JaneW> wow
<ogra> kde was rebuuilt yesterdayx, so kdeedu was broken
<JaneW> the cookbook meeting is tomorrow
<ogra> yep
<kjcole> ogra, so is Flight 6 = final?  or even > final (Dapper+1)?  
<JaneW> kjcole and jelkner will you be attending that? ^^
<ogra> kjcole, final is june 1st 
<ogra> or a week before that date
<JaneW> kjcole: not dapper +1, we are still working on Dapper!
<ogra> there will still be many flights
<kjcole> janew, though I doubt I'll have much to say, I plan to be there.
<jelkner> JaneW: already on it!
<highvoltage> JaneW: but ogra said we can have dapper+1 on june 1 :(
<JaneW> kjcole: but we are down to QA and bug fixing mostly now, so no MAJOR changes now
<ogra> :P
<JaneW> highvoltage: dream on
<JaneW> although at this rate ogra could do it
<ogra> we'll surely get docs in as much as we can before release
<jelkner> JaneW: i'm in the process of upgrading our existing labs to Dapper
<ogra> oh, and we had a squeak bughunt yesterday
<JaneW> jelkner: great, how's it going?
<jelkner> early indication is that is works *much* better
<JaneW> ogra: good, and?
<ogra> so squeak will work as expected by the squeak community
<kjcole> janew, I was curious if "edubuntu dapper is basically done now" what flight 6 was if not final 
<JaneW> jelkner: awesome!
<ogra> (which it apparently didnt in breezy)
<jelkner> the little bugs that used to appear (such as log in failing) are gone
<highvoltage> kjcole: it needs testing and bug fixing, it's feature-complete, though
<jelkner> it boots faster, logs in faster
<jelkner> looks better
<ogra> :)
<JaneW> kjcole: we have a set release date with the rest of Dapper, the delay is for extensive localisation work and MAJOR QA and bug fixing
<kjcole> janew, ogra ah.  I see.
<jelkner> what's not to love!
<ogra> great to hear that from you jelkner :)
<JaneW> jelkner: get yourself quoted in the press again
* ogra makes not to put some extra effort into LDA for dapper+1 to please jelkner :)
<ogra> s/not/note/
<flint> ogra, LDA is local storage eh?
<highvoltage> so. can i say a few words on some edubuntu community ideas?
<highvoltage> or are we still on tech?
<jelkner> ogra: yes, we will need that, but for now, flint is working on a hack solution
<ogra> flint, exactly
<ogra> jelkner, we'll get all the stuff from ltsp.org into universe 
<kjcole> ogra, you KNOW he won't be pleased enough, and will just want more. ;-)
<ogra> (for dapper and if mdz doesnt deny it indeed :) )
<highvoltage> kjcole: and that's why we love him
<highvoltage> *ahem*
<jelkner> ogra: i have a question about the new features such as watch teacher, etc.
<ogra> jelkner, watch teacher ? 
<jelkner> does herman know how they work, and will he be able to get them in the cookbook?
<jelkner> the thing you showed me at below zero that allows teachers to view the processes of students
<ogra> ah
<jelkner> and to share their desktops with students
<ogra> the student-control-panel ....
<jelkner> yes
<jelkner> where is that?
<ogra> sharing isnt implemented for dapper 
<ogra> in universe 
<jelkner> ah
<jelkner> thanks!
<ogra> it currently gives you only control to see students and kick them off 
<flint> ogra, ollie, is language switching included or includable into the student control panel?
<ogra> but in #ltsp several intrested people showed up that want to write extensions and patches
<ogra> flint, nope, since it should be done with the language selector ...
<ogra> its completely unrelated to s-c-p
<flint> ogra, the language selector is run from the student console.  this is not right for a classroom
<ogra> flint, the language selector is the tool we use in ubuntu for language selection 
<kjcole> flint, jelkner I might be blind, but I just noticed language-selector showing up in synaptic a few days ago...
<flint> ogra, thus the student controls the language.  the teacher needs control.
<ogra> flint, about the language ?
<ogra> what for ? 
<jelkner> ogra: absolute beginners shouldn't have to set anything
<ogra> kjcole, its installed by default since breezy on every ubuntu/edubuntu desktop ...
<jelkner> i need to preset it for them
<ogra> jelkner, yes, so use the language selector to do that :)
<jelkner> ok
<kjcole> ogra, has it been in dapper long?  (That's where I remember seeing it show up.)
<ogra> if it doesnt work as expected, file a bug against language selector 
<ogra> kjcole, it has been there since breezy ...
<flint> ogra, i will take a look at the new language selector in dapper.
<ogra> flint, its not new :)
<kjcole> ogra, so, I am blind. ;-) 
<flint> ogra, if it is the old one, then it does not do the job required by elkner.
<flint> ogra, we got a hack that does the job. no problem
<ogra> flint, see above
<ogra> hacks are not the solution ...
<jelkner> i'm a bit behind in preparing for today's classes, i need to run
<flint> ogra, gotcha, but hacks are a step towards a solution.
<jelkner> great work on dapper!  it rocks!
<ogra> if you had filed that wehne we discussed it (i remember telling jelkner to use the language selector after UBZ in #edubuntu) it would be fixed now
<flint> ogra, he only told me about it two weeks ago.  I found it an interesting problem, build a solution and posted it.  
<pips1> ogra, do you know of any new/extra feature that made it into dapper "unexpectedly", because of the delay? or none? (I know the delay wasn't for adding features, but still... :-) )
<ogra> flint, try to improve what we have to work right is the way we do it in ubuntu :)
<flint> ogra, you know about the interesting problem problem.
<ogra> pips1, nope 
<ogra> apart from network manager WPA support 
<pips1> right
<ogra> (i never undestood who needs that anyway, but people cry for it)
* pips1 googles for WPA support
<flint> ogra, what is WPA support? (early no coffee:^)
<JaneW> same as last time  you asked flint :P
<highvoltage> hehe
<ogra> flint, some weird encryption stuff for wireless
<JaneW> wireless protocol authenication support
<ogra> the next generation WEP :)
<flint> JaneW, I had coffee last time I asked...
<JaneW> flint: ah, valid point :)
<ogra> i have never used it and dont know *anybody* who does personally ...
<flint> ogra, why do we care about wireless support in Edubuntu?
<ogra> but users scream for it, so thats our exception of the "no new features" rule
<ogra> flint, because we support it 
<flint> ogra, you are just pulling my leg  he he...
<flint> ogra, Ollie, if there was ever a need for the exception to the "no new features" rule it is LDA...
<flint> ogra, Hacking is a time honored form of civil disobedience.  in this case my hacking is adversarial with the "ubuntu way" but it remains a protest.
<ogra> flint, nope ... NM and WPA is existent LDA would have to be developed
<flint> ogra, ok i should try to develop it.  bash here i come!!!
<flint> :^)
<ogra> flint, it will happen for dapper+1 
<flint> ogra, any idea how and who?
<ogra> and i'm pretty happy to have the ltsp LDA implementation at this time to find the drawbacks and improve it for us ...
<kjcole> flint, your distro can be "Lame Duck" to differentiate it from "Dapper Drake". ;-)
<ogra> flint, likely me 
<flint> kjcole, I even have the graphic!!! ask Jane
<ogra> flint, and through scripted commands, magic and rocket science (to answer the how)
<flint> ogra, if it is likely you, and you can tolerate my "help" i would be honored to help you.
<ogra> any other tech questions ? 
<flint> :^)
<ogra> flint, appreciated ! :)
<ogra> i'm not yet sure if i want to go the ltsp.org path, we might end up with something completely different 
<pips1> who wouldn't remember http://www.flint.com/wvus ? ;-)
<ogra> but thats stuff for the conference and BOFs
<flint> pips1, I have a great affection for that duck which is spilling over to you. :^)
<pips1> flint, indeed
<flint> lol...
<pips1> :-)
<pips1> highvoltage ?
* highvoltage is here
<pips1> "highvoltage: so. can i say a few words on some edubuntu community ideas?"
<highvoltage> is it our turn now?
<flint> ogra, final stoopid question. is flight 6 in the daily build queue?
<highvoltage> oh, yes.
<highvoltage> I've been chatting to Bluekaja, young guy from Italy
<highvoltage> his real name is Andrea Veri
<ogra> flint, not yet ... the isos wait for a new network manager package to be finished
<highvoltage> he's very excited and enthusiastic about ubuntu and edubuntu
<ogra> flint, but the daily that comes today will be flight6
<highvoltage> and he's doing lots of advocacy work in italy, talking to educators in schools close by.
<flint> ogra, congratulations
<kjcole> highvoltage, pips1 is this re the CC agenda about Edubuntu LoCo's?
<ogra> flint, thanks, kepp testing ;)
<highvoltage> he wants to start an edubuntu loco team, and we'll have to put some thinking in that
<ogra> *keep even
<highvoltage> kjcole: yes
<highvoltage> kjcole: i put it in the agenda of the next CC meeting
<flint> highvoltage, jonathan this is a good idea.
<highvoltage> there are some options, such as, should it be an ubuntu loco with an educational focus, or should people be allowed to create an edubuntu specific loco
<olive> Hello. Is there a schedule for conference packs of Dapper ?
<highvoltage> i have views on both, but i suppose it's a CC decision? how does the rest of the edubuntu community feel about it?
<kjcole> highvoltage, I recall that CC meeting is at an impossible hour for me, but would like to voice support for it.
<highvoltage> kjcole: sure, i could forward it for you, if you like
<ogra> olive, this is a meeting channel, a meeting is going on
<olive> sorry, bad channel.
<ogra> :)
<olive> :s
<highvoltage> seems not :)
<highvoltage> the Ubuntu CC meeting is on 3 April
<highvoltage> at 9:00 UTC
<highvoltage> that's the loco team issue.
<ogra> eek, middle of the night
<pips1> highvoltage, Bluekaja is from Italy... is there already a Italian LoCo? I assume so... highvoltage, what are your views on having an edubuntu LoCo?
<flint> highvoltage, your option proposition may need to be considered by the CC eh?
<highvoltage> pips1: yes, there's an italian loco. i think that an additional edubuntu loco would be useful, since the italian loco might already have its goals.
<highvoltage> flint: yes.
<highvoltage> JaneW/ogra: do you have any strong feeling either way?
<pips1> hmm... so you mean the goals might not overlap enough?
<JaneW> highvoltage: I don;t have strong feelings
<kjcole> highvoltage, sure forward my support.  When advertising our loco I describe it as one with an educational focus, as I think that is sufficient, but if there was more specific swag and/or official literature for a more specific kind of LoCo that would be great!
<flint> pips1, the goals of an ubuntu loco and edubuntu loco are clearly different.  you have a point.
<JaneW> but we must be careful not to fragment our group too much
<highvoltage> pips1: there'll probably be *some* overlap, perhaps with some cases, there might be a lot of overlap, and then they could merge
<JaneW> results in duplication of effort and diluted support capacity
<ogra> i know the german ubuntuforums.de has a edubuntu section ...
<highvoltage> in some cases, it might be better to have the edubuntu loco as part of the bigger loco
<highvoltage> but i think it's important to have some guidelines set in place
<flint> ogra, the germans are known to be organized :^)
<ogra> heh, true
<highvoltage> otherwise people start all kinds of locos all over the place and effort gets wasted
<flint> ogra, comparing italians and germans...
<flint> :^)
<highvoltage> i'll post about this to the list too, and we could get some wider feedback there too, before going to CC
<highvoltage> then there's some other community stuffies...
<ogra> the french community also does its own thing since a while 
<flint> ogra, ....but those not the kind of clutural differences we need to dwell upon, the difference between hackers and educators is the nub of this one...
<highvoltage> i've reeled bluekaja in to help us with our launchpad groups too, there's quite a bunch now and they're not very organised :/
<highvoltage> here's a list of them:
<highvoltage> Edubuntu: (24 members)
<highvoltage> Edubuntu Advocacy: (2 members)
<highvoltage> Edubuntu Artwork: (12 members)
<highvoltage> Edubunut Brasil: (8 members)
<highvoltage> Edubuntu Cookbook Cooks: (11 members)
<highvoltage> Edubuntu Documentation: (11 members)
<highvoltage> Edubuntu Testers: (2 members)
<highvoltage> Edubuntu Website: (9 members)
<highvoltage> Edubuntu Chile: (8 members)
<highvoltage> Edubuntu Study Content: (7 members)
<ogra> we have a testers team ? 
<ogra> why dont i know about that 
<highvoltage> brasil and chile are okay, because they are self managed. website is also ok, because pips and i will get the community involved when drupal is set up.
<highvoltage> ogra: we don't really have a testers team yet
<ogra> 2 members 
<pips1> I also agree that overly fragmenting might not be that good... especially if the community is small. on the other hand, being able to make your own decisions will help volunteers to thrive on their enthusiasm :-)
<flint> highvoltage, I wanna be on the testers team can i, can i?
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, bluekaja and I are starting a testers team, i told you about that earlier in this meeting?
<highvoltage> flint: of course
<flint> highvoltage, thanks!
<ogra> highvoltage, 3 members
<highvoltage> bluekaja will help organise these groups, bit by bit
<highvoltage> we're planning to start rallying for testers in about two weeks, although we won't stop it from happening earlier, if it does happen to happen or if someone else wants to step up
<highvoltage> what's perhaps a bit more important right now, is sorting out some of our existing groups, such as documentation, edubuntu (main), etc.
<flint> highvoltage, testers need to be busy testing...
<pips1> it would be helpfull to have a edubuntu-specific testing plan...
<highvoltage> perhaps we need to get the members of Edubuntu in the subgroups they're interested in, and subscribe those groups to Edubuntu instead.
<highvoltage> pips1: yep
<flint> pips1, yes it would... and that is another good idea that came out of this meeting...
<ogra> you can just flllow the standard ubuntu plan ... 
<ogra> apart from testing ltsp ...
<highvoltage> ogra: does that include some ltsp...
<highvoltage> oh.
<flint> ogra, you got a url for this test plan?
<ogra> its on the wiki somewhere
<flint> ogra, lol...
<highvoltage> i think we can make some additional tests for things we know are edubuntu specific, like testing for gcompris gremlins, that schooltool runs nicely, etc, etc
<pips1> Testing/Long and Testing/Short
<flint> i propose that the first thing the edubuntu test group do is to find the silly ubuntu test plan eh?
<highvoltage> flint: good idea. noted.
<highvoltage> so that's some plans in the edubuntu community, i think we can expand on that at next week's meeting, this one is running out a bit.
<ogra> yep
<pips1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Short
<highvoltage> on the edubuntu drupal website, pip1 and i have been experimenting with some off-line modules
<pips1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Long
* flint smells the coffee and can no longer resist...
<highvoltage> we're having a 'sprint' to get a lot of the work done over the weekend, by monday a very large part of the website will be done
<highvoltage> from there it should mostly be fine-tuning until we go live.
<ogra> note that we should only have the basic stuff for ltsp testing required ... 
<flint> pips1, excellent you are something else!  how do you do this?  the king of bookmarks!!!
<highvoltage> ogra: noted
<pips1> hehe
<ogra> i.e. enabling sound requires a lts.conf, do we want to bother rthe user with that ?
<highvoltage> ogra: we can mark it as an optional test
<ogra> yep
<highvoltage> i think testing functions in lts.conf is very important
<highvoltage> we could make that a test of its own.
<ogra> the default should only require editing /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf, restarting dhcpd and testing if clients boot and let you in
<highvoltage> i'm sure people like jelkner, flint, etc, wouldn't mind providing feedback on something that's a bit technical
<pips1> what about testing the education apps? list it too? 
<ogra> sure
<highvoltage> i think we should put a lot of focus on everything that's edubuntu specific
<ogra> yep
<flint> highvoltage, testing from a plan is so organized it is practically Teutonic! :^)
<highvoltage> the rest of the ubuntu stuff should be safe to assume OK, but users could of course test other things too, nothing wrong with being thorrow with testing
<highvoltage> flint: we'll put in a field called "Other:"
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> put in a field called Flint:
<ogra> ;)
<flint> highvoltage, do not count on elkner as a tester in this sense.  he tests at another level...
<highvoltage> hehe
<flint> ogra, be careful what you wish for he he 
<ogra> heh
<flint> this is very good.  the only downer is i went and got a job at a local php house... i needed the money.  so my time will be a little limited.
<highvoltage> ogra: i just wanted to say, i didn't purposely exclude you from any testing team, i just created the team on launchpad when i had the idea the other night, and bluekaja just happened to find it and join it
<pips1> ogra, I feel those two testing guidelines in the wiki (cf. above) are good for "average" Desktop users... do you know of additional, more "technical" testing guidelines? what about testing hardware compatability, server stuff, etc.?
<ogra> highvoltage, i dont feel left out, dont worry :)
<flint> highvoltage, properly and with deverence to Oliver, he needs to be excluded.  but that is his option...
<ogra> pips1, if the tests from the wiki work , your HW will be working fine ...
<pips1> right
<ogra> i dont theink we need special testing for that 
<flint> the real fun comes when you automate the testing... any ideas on that Olli?
<ogra> apart from schooltool and ltsp ...
<highvoltage> is schoolbell still seperate from schooltool?
<ogra> flint, nope, but someone works on that, it was a BOF and spec 
<ogra> highvoltage, yep
<flint> ogra, interesting...
<flint> highvoltage, both schoolbell and schooltool are zope3 thingies...
<ogra> i think diziet 
* highvoltage > #edubuntu
<ogra> so any other business ? 
<ogra> JaneW, ?
<flint> i am not gonna ask pips1 to dig up the auto testing spec, as my cup runneth over with the effort he has already made...
<ogra> wanna tell us about CDs ?
<pips1> I believe the "schooltool 2006" major release has been delayed, the update that went into dapper is a minor update. for those interested in schooltool development status, seehttp://lists.schooltool.org/pipermail/schooltool/2006-March/001910.html 
<ogra> pips1, its not *minor* :)
<ogra> they switched to zope3 
<ogra> its pretty major ...
<pips1> oh, so that change made it to dapper!
<ogra> and i guess that bound their ressources
* flint flint, amazed at pips1 capability, staggers off to get coffee.
<ogra> there is noting changed apart from zope3 being the base ... 
<ogra> no new features etc
<ogra> so seems JaneW is gone and we are done ...
<ogra> adjourned ? 
<kjcole> Ogra +1
<JaneW> sorry I am here
<ogra> ok, lets all move back to #edubuntu, thanks for attending 
<JaneW> had some lag for a while
<ogra> ah
<JaneW> thanks all
<pips1> ok, see you in #edubuntu
<kjcole> Adios (off to "work")
<nomed> hi all
<janimo> hi
<janimo> not much on today's agenda
<nomed> janimo, yep ..
<janimo> we'll improvise :)
<nomed> what about xubuntu burner ?
<janimo> so re tango I did not yet get an answer from daniel
<janimo> nomed, I thin it is graveman for dapper
<nomed> i know he's waitin too :)
<janimo> xfburn ha a nicer interface it's just incomplete
<nomed> janimo, i've seen some new app at gnomefiles ..
<nomed> but i should test them .. and i'm not sure they 're better then graveman ..
<janimo> nomed, I think we should be cautios this late
<janimo> especially with non packaged stuff
<nomed> janimo, i know :)
<janimo> I did not much try various burners
<janimo> nooone likes frying CDs I guess so that's why they ar enot much tested :)
<janimo> I like xfburn's DnD
<ogra> janimo, are you aware that you will cripple graveman a lot if you pull it to main (i.e. mp3 burning etc) thats the reason we decided to not pull it in back at UDU
<janimo> but since the author is busy with school
<janimo> it is dapper+1
<janimo> ogra, had no idea
<janimo> ogra, thanks for the tip
<ogra> janimo, users wont be happy ...
<janimo> I thought it was 'just' a burner
<janimo> in this case we do not
<ogra> it uses backend software 
<janimo> I am not cripppling anything, don't listen to seb ;)
<janimo> not intentionally at least
<ogra> i.e. to burn an mp3 it neerds to be converted 
<janimo> ogra, so it has internal mp3 stuff?
<janimo> or does it call other packages. which are optional
<ogra> i think you could use serpentine just fine for audio CDs ...
<janimo> and hence can remain in universe
<ogra> nope, it hasnt
<janimo> is serp gnome dependent?
<ogra> its pygtk, not sure if it needs gnome as well 
<janimo> yes. and gstreamer dependent
<ogra> yep
<janimo> gnome-python-extras
<janimo> which comes with all gnome libs
<ogra> it uses all the gstreamer pipelines to convert
<janimo> ogra, so you considered graveman at UDU?
<janimo> for what? edubuntu?
<ogra> nope, at UDU there was no edubuntu :)
<ogra> i had to care for the "audio cd burning" spec
<janimo> ogra, form what I see it depends on libmad for mp3
<janimo> whic is in main
<janimo> so it would mean crippling if it had to be shipped right?
<ogra> which will get dropped before release
<janimo> is it? ok
<janimo> do you know if xmms too ?
<ogra> thats what pitti told me at least
<ogra> all gtk1 apps should be gone already...
<ogra> is xmms still there ? 
<janimo> they are not apparently
<ogra> strange 
<ogra> i know it was on the list ... i think pitti cared for it, poke him
<janimo> libmad does not dep on gtk1.2 why is it slated for demotion
<janimo> bc patent issues affect only shippability not main-ness. or not?
<janimo> nomed, see imporvised meeting ;)
<nomed> ehehe
<janimo> ogra, see in dev what tseng says
<janimo> kde holds a ref on libmad, cannot go :)
<ogra> yup, saw it ...
<ogra> but i'm not sure thats final ...
<janimo> ok
<ogra> because i'm sure nobody wants to ship libmad in our enterprise release if possible
<janimo> ok. we'll see about graveman then. but we won't modify it.
<nomed> janimo, about plugins to remove ..
<janimo> let alone cripple it
<janimo> nomed, yes last time I gave kamion a list
<nomed> i'm waitin upstreamer .. but ..
<nomed> ahh perfect
<janimo> some of them were removed (toys, old xfdesktop) some not
<janimo> I may have given an incomplete list
<nomed> i was saying .. the ones that are already within xfce4-panel
<nomed> can be removed for sure ..
<janimo> will reping him (showdesktop, windowlist, panel-menu)
<janimo> anything else later if not ported
<nomed> janimo, i think there isn't that much to say untill we'll not test the isos ..
<janimo> right
<janimo> so anything else that needs discussion
* Gloubiboulga is sorry to be late
<nomed> i think so
* sivang notes this looks like a Xubuntu meeting
<nomed> hi sivang 
<sivang> hey nomed :)
<sivang> ah, Xubuntu meeting is in 30 minutes
<sivang> cool
<Seveas> sivang, 90 minutes
<Seveas> @schedule amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 16:00: Xubuntu | 30 Mar 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 18:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 23:00: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council
<janimo> -30 minutes
<Seveas> 14:00 UTC is in 30 minutes
<Seveas> (not 90)
<janimo> hmm?
<janimo> AHA
<Seveas> daylight savings time confusion 
<janimo> summer time switch here 
<nomed> janimo, the same :)
<janimo> nomed di you know?
<Gloubiboulga> here too janimo 
<Seveas> Wed Mar 29 13:31:37 UTC 2006
<Seveas> that's the time now
<janimo> Sivang and others who missed this short meeting blame astronomers/media/government
<janimo> we cannot repeat it :)
* janimo understands now why yesterday TB meeting was not started 5 minutes after it was supposed too
<janimo> in short todays summary was:
<janimo> 1)tango icon issue 
<janimo> we are waiting fro feedback from Daniel Holbach and canonical people
<janimo> to see if it is ok to have tango in main
<ogra> janimo, edubuntu-artwork already contains tango...
<janimo> another ad-hoc issue was discussed
<janimo> ogra, it's in universe
<ogra> (a special variant=
<janimo> the icon theme
<ogra> nope, its in edubuntu-artwork (included)
<janimo> well yes, since tango means at least 3 things
<janimo> tango-icon-theme I mean
<ogra> yes, we ship tango-brown in the artwork package ...
<janimo> summary continued: cd burning app
<sivang> janimo: so now is Xubuntu meeting??
<sivang> :-)
* sivang is confused
<janimo> sivang, well yes since we did not know that UTC shifted under us
<janimo> so we started at 13:00 apparently
<janimo> with nomed :)
<nomed> janimo, in that case we can inherit xubuntu-icons from edubuntu-icons
<janimo> but there was not much discussion really
<janimo> nomed, I am fine with that
<janimo> but does it mean edubuntu colors?
<nomed> no
<janimo> then what does inherot mean in this context?
<nomed> it means few icons within xubuntu-artwork
<janimo> fallback icons no?
<ogra> nomed, its no that easy, either you include edubuntu-artwork or we split out a separate icon theme package 
<nomed> i'll take a look on that pkge
<ogra> but the latter will have the same problems as tango-icon-theme 
<janimo> ogra, well the icon theme should have been separate from start
<janimo> for reuse anyway
<nomed> ogra, yes i know
<janimo> ogra, indeed
<janimo> we need to promote a not yet in main icon theme anyway
<ogra> janimo, since it wasnt planned to be reused anywhere its fine as is ...
<janimo> if we do not use stock ubuntu or gnome or one that is there already
<nomed> i'm fine with human theme
<nomed> or whatever 
<janimo> nomed, upstream xfce said they'd stick with rodent for 4.4 default right?
<janimo> me too
<nomed> the problem is that if we need new icons
<nomed> we'll not have artists working on that
<janimo> nomed, which icons do we need which others did not need so far?
<janimo> how did gnome do this so far
<janimo> with gnome-icon-theme and non standard names?
<nomed> janimo, xfce icons for ex
<nomed> and rodent is not that complete
<nomed> that's why i think xubutnu needs an icon theme
<janimo> yes
<janimo> the tango people you talked too
<nomed> whatever we'll choose .. we'll probably need to add icons
<janimo> do they work on some icons regardless of it's inclusion in xubuntu?
<janimo> or they don;t bother until they're sure we need tango
<janimo> and the work they're supposed to do, is it within the standard tango-icon-theme if there is such a standard
<nomed> janimo, they want to work just on tango like icons theme
<janimo> aha tango guidelines
<nomed> as that's what they do normally
<nomed> exactly
<janimo> but a new xubuntu theme different from tango icon theme itself
<nomed> janimo, that's not needed ..
<nomed> considering we'll not have the time
<janimo> use those as fallback?
<nomed> yes
<janimo> does any distro ship with tango as default? I suppose it's too young still
<nomed> janimo, there are many variants ..
<nomed> and many artists that are working on those icons actively
<janimo> and how do we know what to pick? whch themes are ready? do they duplicate work?
<janimo> I wish tango and upstream xfce struck a deal or something
<nomed> janimo, most of xfce devel are already using tango
<janimo> I wonder why they do not choose it as default instead of rodent
<nomed> and 2 main tango artists ... would be happy to work on xubuntu icons theme
<janimo> ok
<janimo> then just go ahead with this
<nomed> i guess it's possible to get some results ...
<janimo> it is better than current situation when we just wait anyway :)
<nomed> yep
<nomed> and we'll need more artwork stuff
<nomed> as espresso theme .. gfxboot wallpaper
<janimo> thos artists do they have some icons ready to show, screenshots etc so we/xfce upstream can see if it's ok as default?
<janimo> nomed, sure
<janimo> gfxboot kamion said he'd do as it's install CD stuff
<janimo> and once we have liveCD we look at espresso too
<nomed> janimo, for gxfboot theme will need just to change some colors ..
<janimo> What gtk engine do you think we should use?
<nomed> i know gxfboot source
<janimo> yes gfxboot is easy
<janimo> compared to rest of artwork
<nomed> janimo, xfce4 
<nomed> even if i like more ubuntulook
<nomed> i would know if it really slows down the system
<janimo> does xfce4 have anything special?
<janimo> it was even asked recently on the m-l if it should be deprecated
<janimo> I know is does some gradient but where I don;t know
<nomed> janimo, not sure about that
<Seveas> janimo, to avoid confusion in the future:
<Seveas> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in UTC: March 29 2006, 13:03:46
<sivang> Seveas: good
<janimo> Seveas: yeah, I won't forget. Not for 6 months that is
<janimo> I had almost hardwired UTC+2 so did not think about it at all
<anstei> Seveas: this clock seems wrong, it should be short before 14:00, shouldn't it?
<Seveas> yes it should
<sivang> but still we you guys started ahead of time
<Seveas> odd
<sivang> since 14:00 it one hour from now
<sivang> :)
<Seveas> @reload Webcal
<Seveas> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in UTC: March 29 2006, 13:54:21
<Seveas> (It had %m instead of %M)
<anstei> 
<Seveas> (it recognizes timezones too, like @now amsterdam)
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, about 2) Archiver ?
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: nomed can talk about that :)
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<janimo> and which agenda are you looking at :)
<janimo> last week's?
<Gloubiboulga> nop, you've mentionned it a few minutes ago iirc
<janimo> I think I said cd burner
<janimo> graveman
<Gloubiboulga> ah yeah... sorry :D
<janimo> at least that;'s what I wanted to say
<nomed> Gloubiboulga, xarchiver should be ready for the end of the week
<janimo> ogra said that graveman depends on mp3 stuff (libmad)
<Gloubiboulga> nomed, ok
<janimo> which may go to universe
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: but since kubuntu uses libmad
<janimo> it seems it will stay in main
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 16:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council
<janimo> but we probbaly cannot ship libmad if it has mp3 pateneed stuff as part of garveman dpeendency
<janimo> even though ubuntu may have done that by accident in the past
<janimo> so we may not have any cd burner app in the default
<Gloubiboulga> ok...
<Riddell> can't you just split off the mp3 plugin?
<Riddell> or is it not a plugin?
<janimo> apparently it's not a plugin
<janimo> links to libmad directly
<janimo> but did not look close at all
<janimo> mostly quoting ogra
<sivang> janimo: you need cdburning app in Xubuntu?
<janimo> sivang: not that badly 
<janimo> it'd be nice though
<ogra> janimo, i didnt look at graveman sice hoary might be worth to take a look at changes :)
<sivang> janimo: well, I might be able to throw something as HUB is already a mini cd burning app
<sivang> janimo: could be sensible to throw some GUI on the already exisiting backend
<sivang> janimo: but I can promise anything..
<janimo> sivang: yes, but it may be too  late for dapper
<janimo> I am not even sure about graveman's stability
<sivang> sure
<janimo> fixed a gllib crasher a while ago but may be others
<janimo> this was easy since it did it always on startup :_
<janimo> :)
<sivang> heh
<nomed> http://www.dsslive.org/bzr/python/python-burn/pyburn <-- this is a pure frontend to cdrecord ...
<nomed> but i'll not have the time to complete it for sure
<Riddell> sivang: they can just use k3b like all the ubuntu users do :)
<janimo> yeah I guess so
<ogra> pfft
<Gloubiboulga> what is k3b ? ;)
<janimo> I wonder when will there be a nice birner lib so people stop needing to call cdrecord
<janimo> hmm typo but pronounced the same :)
<ogra> Gloubiboulga, the burning app thats as big as your whole desktop ;)
<Gloubiboulga> ogra, :)
<sivang> Riddell: true :-)
<sivang> Riddell: the number one linux burning app
<sivang> janimo: I had this same discussion with pitti about a burner lib last night :-)
* sivang wonders when k3b will have it's own lisp dialect
<janimo> sivang, stop giving ideas to kde devels
<janimo> they may take you seriously :)
<janimo> what did pitti say about the lib?
<janimo> anything else todiscuss?
<nomed> janimo, for we it's over :)
<nomed> s/we/me
<janimo> s/me/us/ :)
<janimo> ok then see you next week
<nomed> cu :)
<sivang> janimo: he said we badl need one
<sivang> :-)
<sivang> badly, even
<janimo> sivang, oh everyone agrees on that at least :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 16:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council | 05 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> opps wrong window
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 16:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council | 05 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu
<GNAM> dapper meeting is in six hours?
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-04
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Dapper Development Status | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Mar 16:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council | 05 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu
<mdz> good morning all
<dholbach> hey mdz
* fabbione waves
<pitti> JaneW: there now - sort of
<mdz> Kamion,mvo,doko,infinity,Riddell,Mithrandir,iwj,Kinnison,BenC,ogra,JaneW: ping
<Kamion> here
<doko> good morning
<Kamion> iwj is on holiday
<Riddell> pong
<mdz> right, so he is 
* seb128 thinks that's a stupid slot to have a meeting :p
<mdz> as is Keybuk
<mvo> hello
* Kinnison is here
<mvo> ogra is not here for important personal reasons
<mdz> I thought he retracted that
<mdz> SMSed Mithrandir, JaneW, BenC
<Kamion> I suspect ogra has a good excuse if he doesn't make it, anyway.
<dholbach> Mithrandir was replying on IRC some minutes ago
<mdz> Kamion: indeed
<Mithrandir> I'm here
<mdz> dholbach: would you ring JaneW and BenC? we'll need to start without them
<mdz> Riddell: you're up first
<dholbach> mdz: right
<Riddell> done:
<Riddell>  kde espresso syncing with gtk frontend
<Riddell>  kde 3.5.2, qt 3.3.6, amarok 1.3.9 uploaded
<Riddell>  flight 6 testing and CD resizing
<Riddell> next week
<Riddell>  flight 6 then solid kde espresso hopefully
<mdz> Riddell: how is kde espresso overall?
<mdz> I haven't had a chance to try it yet
<Kamion> nor I, not since the UI sprint
<mdz> any regressions in 3.5.2?
<Riddell> still a long TODO list, but should be in a decent shape for beta release time
<Riddell> only 1 minor problem in kdeartwork, overlapping files
<mdz> good
<mdz> what's happening with kubuntu-documentation?
<dholbach> narf, our wiki hates me, I'll keep trying
<Riddell> there's been some god activity on the desktop guide, but I should upload an updated version soon
<dholbach> ah ok
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> seb128: ready?
<seb128> this week: bug triage and fixing
<seb128> next week: keep on bug triage and fixing
<mdz> :-)
<seb128> :)
<mdz> how long is the bug list?
<mdz> have the bug days helped?
<mvo> lol
<seb128> you don't want to know about the list :p
* mvo loves this status update
<mdz> I do
<seb128> it doesn't go down 
<seb128> the previous bug day has been nice
<mdz> seb128: is gnome .2 scheduled yet?  will we have another point release for dapper?
<seb128> and there is some new active people
<JaneW> argh - sorry....
<seb128> yeah, .2 is somewhere during may
<mdz> oh good
<seb128> let me look at it
<mdz> let me know when there is a fixed date
<seb128> bug days could use some extra distro team people out of dholbach and me
<doko> seb128: no more pango updates please ;)
<mdz> I think we should have a bug day where the entire team participates
<fabbione> like tomorrow?
<seb128>  May 29th
<seb128> 
<seb128> GNOME 2.14.2 Tarballs Due
<seb128> 
<seb128> May 31st
<seb128> 
<seb128> GNOME 2.14.2 Stable Release 
<fabbione> for the X HUG DAY?
<seb128> according to http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen
<mdz> seb128: argh, bad timing
* Kinnison would be pleased to do a long stint on tomorrow's bug day if that would be helpful
<mdz> sure, tomorrow.  I think everyone will be here except iwj
<dholbach> mdz: benC said he was in connecticut and was taking a day off today and tomorrow
<dholbach> mdz: and he had notified you
<Mithrandir> I'll be busy shoving flight-6 out the door, but if you lot are busy triaging bugs, that sounds good.
<infinity> BenC's bug list is generally so drastically different from everyone else's that he may not derive much value from a bug day anyway.
<mdz> dholbach: right, ok
<mdz> so no BenC for bug day tomorrow
<Kamion> infinity: it would probably be useful for somebody to teach the bugsquad how to triage kernel bugs
<mdz> he can attend the next one
<Kamion> if installer bugs are anything to go by, they will need training
<mdz> but let's all join in tomorrow
<infinity> Kamion: It could be, but it takes a certain knowlege of the kernel before you can even begin.
<dholbach> but adding stuff to wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures might be a good start (anyway)
<mdz> infinity: they can at least learn what information is needed and help getting reports fleshed out
* JaneW as an update from sivang
<infinity> mdz: True that.
<mdz> JaneW: saw it already
<JaneW> mdz: ah right. ok
<mdz> thanks seb128
<mdz> pitti: ?
<pitti> reducing-duplication:
<pitti>  * talked with Adam about php5-sqlite; package will be split off to universe
<pitti>  * TODO: check with seb128 about getting rid of gtk+1.2 (quite many packages still use it)
<pitti> DB2 packaging:
<pitti>  * DONE:
<pitti>    - automatic instance setup
<pitti>    - reasonable package splitting (server, dev, gui, doc, l10n, metapackage for everything)
<pitti>    - integrated DAS startup/shutdown
<pitti>    - Java SDK deb from the bundled IBM JDK and integrate the GUI stuff to work OOTB
<pitti>    - proper package descriptions
<pitti>    - got many hints and a lot of testing help from sivang
<pitti>    - checked status with mdz, packaging features are deemed sufficient for now
<pitti>    - sivang ran officla certification test suite, passed; I have the logs
<pitti>  * TODO: fix some packging issues (mainly daemon stopping and cleaning on purge)
<pitti> general stuff done this week:
<pitti>  * brought language pack imports up to date, fixed import bugs
<pitti>  * bug triage from hell (sub'ed to many packages and cleaned up bug reports)
<pitti>  * bug fixing, mostly in Utopia related stuff
<pitti> plan for next week:
<pitti>  * finally dive into triaging printing bugs
<pitti>  * cupsys 1.2 final is about to be released, upstream did a ton of bug fixes since our current snapshot; evaluate svn commit changelog for new features, test current RC1 whether it breaks stuff (further :/), ask for UVF exception if appropriate
<pitti>  * CD/espresso testing
<pitti> sorry, bit longish
<mdz> pitti: are rosetta updates flowing smoothly now?
<Mithrandir> pitti: can I borrow you for flight-6 testing on ppc tomorrow?
<fabbione> Mithrandir: i have ppc too if you need
<pitti> mdz: you mean production code updates? 
<mdz> pitti: I mean translation updates via langpacks
<pitti> Mithrandir: of course, full speed for testing and bug triage tomorrow
<Mithrandir> fabbione: the more the merrier, so sounds good. :-)
<pitti> mdz: ooh, carlos recently started to produce tarballs; I didn't look at them yet, will do ASAP
<mdz> Mithrandir: hmm, flight-6 and bug day both tomorrow?
<fabbione> Mithrandir: just ping me when it's time
<pitti> mdz: but he fixed the worst bugs recently
<Mithrandir> mdz: flight-6 was planned for today, but didn't make it.
<infinity> Mithrandir: I'm prepared to shut off the cronjobs on drescher and drive them by hand, if we need fast turnaround time on the archive for Flight releases.  Waiting forever and a day could really tire us out.
<mdz> Mithrandir: what were the showstoppers?
<seb128> Mithrandir: tomorrow beeing friday for you?
<infinity> mdz: It's a good match to do them together, since bugs can be triaged without uploads happening. :)
<pitti> right, and while installs progressing...
<Mithrandir> mdz: not booting on some amd64s, for instance.
<Mithrandir> seb128: tomorrow is Thursday.
<seb128> k, so not the same day as bug day 
<fabbione> Mithrandir: it is thursday in our TZ :P
<Mithrandir> fabbione: it's thursday after I've slept.
<fabbione> ahah
<mdz> ok, so flight-6 thursday and bug day friday?
<seb128> hum, sleep :)
<seb128> mdz: correct
<mdz> good
<mdz> thanks pitti
<Mithrandir> seb128: yes, this thing some of us do, once in a while.
<mdz> ogra: next?
<pitti> mdz: what will happen with db2 now?
<mdz> pitti: let's talk about it after the meeting
<pitti> mdz: after the packaging fixes?
<pitti> right
<doko> pitti: no ooo files in carlos' rosetta export
<mdz> mvo: next?
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - bugtriage
<mvo> - work on the dist-upgrade tool, should be in good shape now (polish, ui, better progress reporting, better error recovery)
<mvo> - debugged/found bug in gksu that caused the debconf-gnome problems of the dist-upgrade-tool (fix in dapper, needs to go into breezy-updates too, send mail to kov about it)
<mvo> - fontconfig-voodoo/font work,communication (sil)
<mvo> - work on the gnome-app-install data extractor, fixed various bugs, blacklisted various entries
<mvo> - smallish bits on the qt-language-selector
<mvo> - misc stuff, fixes (gdebi, update-manager, software-properties, apt, notification-daemon, synaptic, gnome-app-install, manual upgrade testing)
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - more bug-fixing/bugtriage
<mvo> - push for the auto-dist-upgrade test chroot setup
<mvo> - get the dist-ugprade tool into the archive, my currend idea is to add a "--development" option for people who want to upgrade to the current development release 
<Kamion> mvo: is that the same gksu problem we encountered on the live CD?
<Kamion> gksudo didn't work until sudo had been run once, or something like that
<mdz> mvo: is the upgrade tool firmly in breezy-updates now?  any feedback from that?
<mvo> Kamion: no, this seems to be something different, too clearly cleanup 
<Kinnison> mvo: tomorrow can we please go through the bits needed to get the upgrade tool signed on cron.daily?
<Kamion> mdz: there's a launchpad bug blocking getting python-vte into breezy-updates/main
<mvo> mdz: not in breezy-updates yet (but prepared for it), the missing bit was how to activate prompting for the devel version
<mvo> I would like to do it with "--developemtn" to only get people using it who can handle a commandline
<mdz> Kamion: do you have a bug numbe?
<mdz> number, even
<Kamion> bug 36022
<mvo> Kinnison: yes, that would be good
<mvo> Kinnison: I talked to elmo about it briefly about it
<Kinnison> mvo: let's talk tomorrow and let the meeting continue for now
<mvo> any objections about the "update-manager --development" approach for prompting for upgrades to a development release?
<mdz> Kamion: ok, will see that it is chased
<infinity> mvo: Sounds good to me.
<Kamion> mdz: thanks
<mvo> it will prompt normally when the official release is out
<mdz> mvo: how do manual dist-upgrades look so far?  any problems?
<mvo> mdz: no, recent upgrades on i386 look very good
<mdz> mvo: have you implemented a scheme to allow us to suppress notifications of the availability of dapper+1 to dapper users, per sabdfl's request?
<mvo> mdz: jbailey had trouble last week with amd64 and OO though
<infinity> I recently dist-upgraded a friend who had ubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-desktop, and a bunch of other crap installed, and it was nearly flawless.  I should try this again and file some bugs on the 2 or 3 issues.
<mvo> mdz: IMHO we need to show notifications for dapper users but offer a way to "don't show this again". because a lot of dapper users will want to upgrade
<mdz> I saw a conffile prompt in some random X package recently
<mvo> we should make it clear in the release notes that this is a upgrade to a not 3y support version
<mdz> mvo: we can argue it later, but need to allow for his request to be satisfied
<mvo> mdz: yes, thanks
<mdz> mvo: I agree that we should offer "don't show this again" in any case
<mdz> do we already have the ability to display a note before the upgrade, where we could explain about the support lifetime etc.?
<mvo> mdz: yes, we display release notes
<mvo> that is, anything that is in the release notes-uri :)
<mdz> ok, thanks mvo
<mdz> Mithrandir: next?
<Mithrandir> last week: finished up the Korean keyboard work, some XKB work, some bug triage.  Also, flight-6 preparations today and tomorrow.  Some espresso hacking too (timezone selector).
<Mithrandir> next week: more espresso hacking, popcon, general bug gardening
<Mithrandir> blocked on: soyuz being slow; see bug 36535.  This is already problematic for flights and will be worse when we get closer to release.
<mdz> how is the new xkeyboard-config working out?
<Mithrandir> a bit rough in the beginning, but upstream's responsive and I think we have most of the issues worked out now.
<mdz> will follow up with LP on 36535
<Mithrandir> Adam has a bug about building out of incoming too.  If we could get both, I'd be thrilled.
<mdz> Mithrandir: be sure the next Flight announcement includes a note about new X keyboard bits and requests explicit attention to testing
<Mithrandir> mdz: ok.
<mdz> building out of incoming is likely to be harder
<mdz> rolling substantial new features into soyuz is a slow process in production
<mdz> there might be low-hanging fruit on performance optimization though
<seb128> mdz: fixes the issue with GNOME keymaps selections, we got a compose:ralt issue which got worked with upstream and fixed, out of that seems to work nicely
<mdz> I will speak with kiko
<Mithrandir> thanks.
<Mithrandir> seb128: did you get the X parts of that fixed too?
* Kinnison knows of one bit of low-hanging fruit on the publisher
<Kinnison> and can probably come up with one or two speedups
<Kinnison> possibly enough to make 30m cron.dailys reliable
<seb128> Mithrandir: svu fixed it with xkeyboard-config changes only in fact
<Mithrandir> seb128: oh, cool.
<infinity> Kinnison: We'd love you forever.
<mdz> Kinnison: please send an email to me+kiko with your ideas to discuss
<Mithrandir> Kinnison: that'd be very, very nice.
<Kinnison> mdz: Sure
<mdz> thanks
<Kamion> Kinnison: I need to have a clear window where I can manipulate publishing records safely
<infinity> Kinnison: As we approach beta, this will become critical.
<Kinnison> infinity: *nod*
<Kinnison> Kamion: I understand
<Kamion> Kinnison: if that window is of the form "it's safe to manipulate publishing records while publish-distro is running", all the better :-)
<mdz> seb128: you recommend it for breezy-updates as well?
<mdz> seb128: (assuming feedback from flight 6 is positive)
<seb128> probably yep
<mdz> ok
<infinity> Kinnison: I'll poke you later with more on this topic, including concerns/feedback from others about same.
<mdz> thanks Mithrandir
<Kinnison> infinity: thanks
<mdz> Kinnison: next
<Kinnison> gnome-power-manager (PowerManagementInterface): Rewound a bunch of partial patches to prepare 2.14.0-0ubuntu1 upload for after flight-6. Went through even more bugmail. Scouring of CVS to get a list of changesets for upstream to produce a 2.14.1 release for us.
<Kinnison> gparted: reviewed patch by dholbach
<Kinnison> metacity: fixed bug in the patch I created last week; continued to chat with upstream about this. They remain unconvinced as yet.
<Kinnison> launchpad: worked on a test set for the uploader and started to integrate it into the launchpad test suite.
<Kinnison> lp-ongoing: I will finish this test suite integration. I imagine there'll be another production rollout soon. 
<Kinnison> distro-ongoing: Otherwise continue with gnome-power-manager, acpi related stuff, gparted, etc. I've promised Colin I'll help pick up some espresso UI bits.
<Kinnison> [end] 
<mdz> you're around for bug day, right?
<Kinnison> Yes
<mdz> great
<mdz> are you tracking acpi/PM/laptop related issues in malone?
<Kinnison> I am on the bug contacts for acpi-support
<Kinnison> and I'm tracking most of them
<Kamion> Kinnison: do you need any help from me on the gparted 0.2 merge?
<mdz> I hear some murmurings about suspend-to-RAM regressions from various people
<mdz> I don't know whethere they're kernel or userland related
<infinity> mdz: On upgrades, or fresh installs?
<Kinnison> Kamion: dholbach is doing well on that. Once he has a 0.2.3 I'll review it and test it with my harness
<Kamion> there was talk about that being due to the change in the kernel/user memory split; I understood mjg59 was on top of that
<mdz> infinity: unclear; is there expected to be a difference?
<fabbione> mdz: it can make a difference
<Kinnison> mdz: I also have "mail mdz+kiko about speedups for publisher" and "work out what building out of incoming would entail"
<infinity> mdz: Earlier today, a theory was developed that because gfxboot lets you pick a resolution (and then puts that resolution in a vga= line in your bootloader!), people are inadvertently using vesafb where they would previously have has vga16fb.
<mdz> Kinnison: mjg59 doesn't seem to have much time for it these days; if you could chat with him and see if you can help fill in, that would be grand
<Kinnison> mdz: I'll add that to my list
<infinity> s/have has/have had/
<Kamion> infinity: that can easily be turned off, if we're confident that nobody will ever need to use vga= to get a visible usplash
<infinity> mdz: mjg59 did, however, just commit a kernel patch that fixes suspend-to-disk on macihnes with massive gobs of RAM (tested on my 2GB laptop)
<mdz> Kinnison: I fully expected build-from-incoming to be a longer-term thing; don't spend too much time on it right away unless you already know otherwise
<Kinnison> mdz: I wouldn't be coding it up, just looking to produce a better estimate of the job
<Kinnison> mdz: in case we decide we need it as release approaches
<mdz> infinity: perhaps we should disable that
<mdz> since it presumably doesn't affect X anyway
<mdz> Kinnison: sure, but it's lower priority than bugs
<Kinnison> mdz: noted
<pitti> mdz: btw, it should; it's one of the few ways we could fix the silly default resolution if resolution can't be detected automatically
<Kamion> mdz: the reason vga= was copied was that it used to be necessary to get a usable console on some machines. Theoretically that shouldn't be the case any more now that we default to 640x400
<Kinnison> mdz: where does "speed up publisher" come in my priority list?
<pitti> that's still an ugly problem we haven't decided on
<Kamion> pitti: VESA resolutions probably aren't a particularly good set of options for X though
<mdz> Kinnison: mail me your list and I'll sort it for tomorrow
<Kinnison> mdz: okay
<infinity> Kamion: Let's continue this bootloader/vga thing out of band.
<pitti> Kamion: maybe, but it's the only input the user can give on the live CD...
<infinity> pitti: You too. ;)
<pitti> yes, it's in a bug report, too
<mdz> pitti,infinity: chat with fabbione about it; he has a todo item for a more graceful VESA fallback
* fabbione sighs...
<fabbione> yeah
<mdz> thanks Kinnison
<mdz> JaneW: I think Keybuk has been on vacation for most of the time since the last meeting, any update?
<JaneW> mdz: no, I'll mail him...
<mdz> JaneW: nah, as I said I think he was on holiday all but a day or so
<mdz> Kamion: next?
<Kamion> that day I think he spent on n-m
<Kamion> ubuntu-express-copy-filesystem: Estimated install copying time fixed.
<Kamion> ubuntu-express-base-system: Timezone defaults fixed. Started in on sorting out network configuration; would have finished this evening but for laptop hardware problems. Looked at apt-setup this morning, but it turned out to be a bit more than the simple job I was hoping, so stepping back for a bit to rethink. Mithrandi
<Kamion> r's doing timezone->country->locale inferring.
<Kamion> ue-partitioning-tool: Fixed manual partitioner not to assume ext3 (too late for Flight CD 6 though).
<Kamion> misc: Various random installer bug fixing. Trying to cope with checking up on all the bugs that triagers are closing for me (not all accurately; installer bugs require different treatment to say desktop bugs because it can be much harder to persuade people to re-test, and bugs are often very hardware-specific).
<Kamion> next-week: Bug day tomorrow; perhaps I can do some education on installer bugs. Breezy CD images, this time for real; sorry pitti.
<Kamion> sorry for screen-induced paste breakage
<mdz> Kamion: what are we doing about network configuration in espresso?
<Kamion> mdz: I tried to use netcfg, but it's difficult at present because that tries to bring interfaces up and down
<mvo> Kamion: I would be interessted to talk to you about the eta copy time thing later, I did something like it in the upgrader too
<mdz> there's an outside chance that NM will happen for the installed system, but we can't count on it
<Kamion> mdz: so I'm just doing clone-and-hack of netcfg's logic for writing the standard network configuration files, plus copying certain bits from the live filesystem (/etc/network/interfaces mainly)
<mdz> if we need to remove it from live as well so that we can do network configuration sanely, that's reasonable
<Kamion> mvo: I doubt it's related - espresso's problem was that it was using cpio for the copy and thus losing track of progress due to buffering on cpio's stdin
<mdz> is the live boot still configuring interfaces even though we're installing NM?
<Kamion> mdz: yeah, the disconnect between live and installed is going to be awkward unless n-m remains installed after espresso installs
<Kamion> mdz: it's doing all the configuration it ever did, i.e. write out auto dhcp stanzas for each interface
<Mithrandir> mdz: yes, but NM manages those interfaces so it's not harmful.
<mdz> oh, so NM is ignoring everything on live anyway?  that's less than ideal
<Kamion> n-m considers stanzas of that form to mean that it can manage the interfaces
<Kamion> mdz: no
<mdz> oh
<mdz> how clever of it
<Kamion> this configuration is probably ok; however if 
<Mithrandir> nm manages all interfaces on live.
<Kamion> the user actually does any meaningful setup with n-m, they'll be a bit surprised that it's no longer available on install
<Kamion> I could perhaps try to detect whether they've fiddled with n-m and if so keep n-m installed, or something
<mdz> possibly
<infinity> Good thing you can't do anything useful with n-m, except for picking a wireless network. :)
<infinity> (No static IP setup or anything in N-M yet)
<Kamion> infinity: WPA configuration now
<infinity> Oh, and that.
<mdz> that could be frustrating
<Kamion> anyway, out-of-band?
<mdz> yes
<mdz> when Keybuk is back, let's talk about what to do with NM
<mdz> thanks Kamion
<mdz> iwj has been on holiday...
<mdz> infinity: next?
<infinity> last week buildd: Sorting out build failures in main, we're now down to exactly one FTBFS package (syck on amd64) which I'm investigating, everything else it up to date.
<infinity> last week distro: General bug fixing and bug triaging in packages I maintain, and elsewhere (such as network-manager), preparing for Flight-6.
<infinity> next week buildd: More of the same, making sure everything is building, also need to get livefs and security building on hppa/sparc in the DC.  I also need to get MOTU up to speed on their FTBFS issues ASAP.
<infinity> next week distro: More and more triaging and bugfixing in packages I maintain solo and in teams, and help Tollef with the Flight-6 release.
<infinity> NOTE: I don't mind terribly fixing FTBFS bugs, it's a big part of my job, and I'm rather good at spotting build problems, but PLEASE, don't use that as an excuse to not test builds before you upload.  Pretty please.
<infinity> SCARIER NOTE: Due to unfortunate changes upstream in libmysqlclient15, it would be in our best interest to sync their new (ABI incompatible) version and do a mass rebuild of reverse deps.  This needs discussion.
<mdz> great news on buildability, thanks for that
<mdz> do we have a strategy for a test build for dapper?
<fabbione> infinity: +1 on the rebuild
<infinity> We should discuss the MySQL thing, I just wanted to toss it out there so people don't freak out when it happens.
<mdz> infinity: please send an email re: mysql
<infinity> mdz: We have no particularly wonderful strategy there yet.  I need to discuss with Kinnison to see if LP can do it for us, and if not, get elmo to set it up in wanna-build.
<infinity> mdz: Will do.
<Kamion> ubuntu-devel-announce on mysql maybe? (or maybe once we've decided)
<mdz> infinity: ok, please start that ball rolling so we don't have to rush later
<infinity> Kamion: I can announce it, but rebuilds are fairly simple, not sure it's worth the hassle.
<fabbione> infinity:  i can do w-b for sparc here. 24 instances of buildd will be way faster than the machines at the DC
<mdz> Kamion: ubuntu-devel and CC me for the discussion; announce once we'v edecided
<mdz> fabbione: that is a damn fine idea
<fabbione> mdz: that'd be only sparc tho..
<infinity> sparc only would catch 99% of the FTBFS bugs anyway.
<mdz> right, but we have relatively few i386-specific packages and could test them manually
<infinity> But it's no hassle to get it going in the DC, really, just need to get elmo to do his end (cut an archive snapshot)
<fabbione> mdz: can you sponsor a set of earplugs for me, pretty please? :P
<infinity> I suspect LP isn't ready for us to do these things natively yet.
<mdz> infinity: elmo is a busy man
<fabbione> mdz: but yes we can do it
<fabbione> infinity: you can get console here and go with it
<mdz> fabbione: noise canceling headphones, you mean ;-)
<infinity> fabbione: Do you still have a local mirror?
<fabbione> mdz: exactly
<mdz> ok, thanks infinity
<mdz> fabbione: next?
<fabbione> infinity: yes
<fabbione> * server-candy: Missing/buggy: apache2 for "central snakeoil SSL setup" and kernel -server as default from CD install. No other progresses.
<fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: Waiting ocfs2-tools release for new userland to sync with the kernel that will allow (finally) full desync later. Release is taking a bit longer, pinged upstream, no answer yet. Got the SAN almost up and running. Missing to configure the 2x2Gb fiber switches and get some controllers around different machines to start testing.
<fabbione> * last week: X bug fixing/triage/headackes/larting/bashing/killing/... redhat-cluster-suite bug fixing and a bit of sparc bug fixing, got mono working on sparc with David Miller :)
<fabbione> * next week: bug fixing + X hug day tomorrow. Prepare redhat-cluster-suite breezy-update for a missing init script. Wacom in
<fabbione> X needs love very soon (found a can of worm looking at the bugs). Going to announce sparc CDs later today since they have bee
<fabbione> n finally tested.
<fabbione> * bug work has bottle necks on malone missing ability to do multiple bug processing. (Discussed with LP people already)
<fabbione> infinity: i have all in the local mirror
<mdz> fabbione: I am following up on your LP requests to assist with X triage
<fabbione> mdz: yes i saw your first mail, thanks
<fabbione> oh i have been a bit sick yesterday
<fabbione> otherwise everything is on track
<fabbione> X is in bad shape.. we will make it rocking
<mdz> spoke with kiko at length today and will again tomorrow regarding all of the priority LP activity for us
<fabbione> in a year or two
<fabbione> mdz: great thanks
<mdz> fabbione: we run on 1-hour days, so we should be able to squeeze a year in before dapper ;-)
<mdz> thanks fabbione
<mdz> doko: next?
<fabbione> anyway more seriously.. the biggest issue was the ati driver and we got upstream very close to us
<doko> - toolchain-roadmap: glibc i386 on amd64 fixed, patch comparision (unstable vs. dapper) beeing addressed.
<doko> - toolchain-roadmap-ng: blocked (Martin Michlmayer and Ben Hutchings did a Debian unstable rebuild with gcc-4.1 on mips and amd64, which is looking good)
<doko> - openoffice.org: two new locales, bug fixes, finding that we import all message strings as translated into rosetta, en-au dictionary and thesaurus available (jdub, for your slides ;-), working on OOo 2.0.2 packages for breezy (low prio)
<doko> - other: preparing ttf-dejavu updates, ttf-dejavau font backport, looking for fonts for printing, python-2.4.3 candidate
<doko> - plans for next week: focus in font/printing bugs and printing related packages
<mdz> doko: any particular bug focus for you beyond ooo?
<Riddell> doko: is fontforge up to date enough for dejavu?
<mdz> working with pitti on printing?
<doko> mdz: ^^^ font/printing bug
<doko> sure, working with pitti on this would be good
<mdz> (in case no one had noticed yet, I sometimes start writing responses before I finish reading the paste, to save time ;-) )
<pitti> yep
<doko> Riddell: any particular reason to ask?
* fabbione disables mdz's readahead
<mdz> doko: you'll be here for bug day?
<doko> yes
<mdz> great
<Riddell> doko: I remember looking at dejavu earlier in dapper cycle and fontforge wasn't up to date enough for the latest versions
<mdz> doko: do rosetta and ooo like each other these days?
<doko> Riddell: asking upstream DejaVu
<doko> mdz: so, so. OOo does copy the english string to the translated string, and rosetta imports that, so we have 100% OOo translations
<doko> discussing with carlos how to solve this
<mdz> doko: is there hope to have rosetta import/export for ooo for dapper?
<doko> no exports for OOo yet; I'd like to have a tarball in the data center, not having to write 20 emails and fetching these via http
<infinity> Automation is elation.
<doko> mdz: the import is working, the workaround for me is to remove the strings, if en-US == translated lang
<mdz> so we have import but not export
<mdz> ok, running out of time
<mdz> thanks doko
<mdz> dholbach: next?
<dholbach> icon-mission: icon page complete, workflow with art team implemented (apt-ftparchive is unhappy sometimes, need to investigate)
<dholbach> this week (done): finished technical aspects of the icon world, *started* catching up with bug triage
<dholbach> this week (todo): bug day, more bug triage, catching up with motu uvf
<dholbach> next week: bug triage, working on organising the motu dapper fixage
<mdz> dholbach: where do we stand on sabdfl's icon priorities?
<dholbach> mdz: you mean the page?
<mdz> dholbach: I mean actually getting the icons we need from the artist
<dholbach> mdz: there was no update of Dave yet, he was supposed to report back this week
<dholbach> I can mail him.
<mdz> ok, please do
<dholbach> right5
<mdz> ok, before we close up
<mdz> good news, thanks to elmo, syncs should start happening again very soon
<sistpoty> yay :)
* mvo applauds
<mdz> how is everyone feeling about the release schedule changes?
<doko> mdz: on which basis, we did request syncs for specific versions, which are supserseeded in unstable
<mdz> doko: I will be reviewing the pending requests with elmo
<mdz> and will figure out what to do with those
<Kamion> we can sync from snapshot.debian.net if need be, I'm sure
<Kamion> I have one other issue
<mdz> in the coming week I will be pressing hard on bugs, trying to get a handle on what is going on in Malone
<mdz> working with kiko to get better reports for us
<Kamion> bootable Intel Mac CDs require non-root HFS+ writing support
<Kamion> we have no way to do this using free software, and even with non-free software we only get formatting, not other writing
<JaneW> mdz: can I help with that? (bug reports)
<mdz> JaneW: possibly; ping me tomorrow about it?
<JaneW> mdz: sure
<Kamion> if somebody would like to work on this (ideally adding an HFS+ hybrid option to mkisofs), please let me know; otherwise it'll have to wait until later in the cycle when I'm a bit more out from under the espresso mountain
<seb128> mdz: schedule change will permit to fix a lot of small glitches which is nice
<fabbione> mdz: i don't mind the change in the schedule, but it might kill my presence at the next spec writing orgy :/
<mdz> Kamion: intel mac support isn't an explicit target for us; it's a nice to have but I'm happy to let it be a later one-off (by us or community-contributed) based on the final dapper CD if necessary
<Kamion> mdz: we can do one-offs relying on somebody invoking root access to build the HFS+ piece, I *think*
<JaneW> Kamion: can you send me espresso %ages - when the time is more sane please?
<mdz> Kamion: happy to bounty the work if a candidate is available
<Kamion> although haven't tested that theory yet
<Kamion> but it's not feasible for autobuilding
<mdz> ok, if anyone has outstanding issues, please mail or call
<Kamion> mdz: nice-to-have> understand, I just thought I'd mention since an increasing number of people are asking about it
<Kamion> JaneW: yes
<mdz> it's late for most of you, thanks for staying up
<JaneW> Kamion: ta
<mdz> good night all
<JaneW> Thanks everyone, sorry I was late (set the alarm time but forgot to turn it on)
<fabbione> night guys
<doko> good night
<seb128> 'night
<dholbach> night guys
<infinity> 'Night, Europe. :)
* dholbach stays up
* fabbione stays up too
<pitti> cu later
* mvo considers his options
<pitti> thanks everyone
<seb128> dholbach: you are crazy?
* Mithrandir goes to bed.
<fabbione> sleep for one hour to wake up my wife is no option
<fabbione> seb128: dude.. i need to take you out partying with me sometime
<Mithrandir> remember, it's still flight-6 freeze, so please don't upload stuff to main until flight-6 is out.  Which should be in < 12 hours.
<dholbach> seb128: i couldn't sleep any more, so I got up... I can just stay up
<fabbione> seb128: 5am will be the normal
<Burgundavia> mdz: intel mac is an awesome marketing win
<seb128> dholbach: good joke
<dholbach> seb128: I mean it
<seb128> dholbach: k, I want all the desktop bugs cleaned when I wake up in some hours, start NOW
<seb128> and have fun :p
* seb128 goes to sleep
<dholbach> seb128: sure i'll have fun - sleep tight
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Mar 16:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council | 05 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<ChristmasCpp> hy all
<ChristmasCpp> d
<Seveas> @schedule Amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 30 Mar 18:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 23:00: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council | 05 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu Cookbook | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council | 05 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<spacey> hi
<spacey> Pygi: ping
<spacey> ogra: ping
<spacey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu
<Pygi> spacey, shhhhh ;)
<spacey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-March/001265.html
<spacey> for the Agenda
<Pygi> Hello everyone
<spacey> i feel quite loneeeeely
<Pygi> Welcome to the Edubuntu cookbook meeting
<Pygi> we'll wait for a few more minutes to give everyone a chance to attend
<spacey> lets wait for a few minutes
<kjcole> Work emergencies. I'll be in and out of this meeting...
<flint> kjcole, i will be here...
<flint> spacey, elkner is teaching class...
<spacey> please read up on the agenda
<spacey> i'm limited in time
<spacey> so i want to stick close to the poings
<spacey> items
<spacey> and keep it structured
<spacey> if you have any other items not related to the item in discussion please keep it to the end of the meeting
<flint> where is the agenda?  I have both references up.  
<spacey> <spacey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-March/001265.html
<spacey> <spacey> for the Agenda
<flint> gotcha...
<spacey> ogra: there?
<spacey> highvoltage will be a bit later
<spacey> but we can start before that
<flint> Regarding item 1) Define purpose and role of the book I believe that the cookbook motif should be reconsidered...
<spacey> flint: please hold on
<spacey> till we start
<Pygi> flint: hold on ;)
<spacey> i actually hoped ogra could be here
<spacey> but he seems out of it
<spacey> who is here now that intends to attend to the meeting?
* Pygi raises hand
<spacey> ..
<spacey> flint?
<flint> present
<spacey> too bad ogra is not here yet
<spacey> but we'll start
<spacey> regarding point 1)
<spacey> 1) Define purpose and role of the book.
<spacey> we wrote up: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/PurposeAndRole
<spacey> Anything that should be added there?
<flint> HedgeMage, hello!!!
<spacey> in anyones opinion
<HedgeMage> hi flint 
<spacey> Pygi: 
<HedgeMage> I miss anything?
<spacey> HedgeMage: we just started
<spacey> <spacey> 1) Define purpose and role of the book.
<spacey> <spacey> we wrote up: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/PurposeAndRole
<spacey> HedgeMage: agenda: <spacey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-March/001265.html
<spacey> Pygi: you think its pretty complete now? or should we cover it more specificly?
<HedgeMage> thanks, spacey 
<Pygi> spacey: fine for now, but needs update...some other issues are of greater concern...
<kjcole> crisis du moment solved.
<spacey> Pygi: what kind of update?
* kjcole is Kevin Cole
<spacey> great another soul
<Pygi> spacey: more detailed usage cases, etc.
<spacey> ok
<spacey> good 
<spacey> anyone else?
<spacey> HedgeMage: flint?
<flint> I believe that a re-write of the Tuxlab would be the best way to get this out the door.
<Pygi> flint: it can help, that is sure, but not in the way you think...
<spacey> flint: you read my earlier posts to the list?
<flint> The tuxlab book is pretty well structured and would be a better framework rather than starting with a whole new framework.
<Pygi> a lot of stuff is too edubuntu specific
<flint> Pygi, we are writing to edubuntu... eh?
<spacey> most of the tuxlab stuff should be covered elsewhere
<HedgeMage> I'm just jumping in, and this may end up being a seperate document from how-to-cook, but there needs to be something out there for teachers on using technology effectively in the classroom once they have it...
<Pygi> flint: don't you know what this meeting is? :-/
<HedgeMage> Most teachers either let that computer gather dust, or let it make their lives *more* complicated/difficult, instead of less
<spacey> HedgeMage: what technology do you point out here?
<spacey> what piece of the technology
<flint> Pygi, oh I understood that this was specifically for edbuntu did i get this wrong?  it happens to old folks like me :^)
<Pygi> flint: well, this is for edubuntu :)
<spacey> flint: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-March/001236.html
<spacey> please read up
<flint> Pygi, I will not send myself to the home then... 
<spacey> HedgeMage: can you be mroe specific
<kjcole> flint, pygi I think you misunderstand each other: I think Pygi was saying that the Tuxlab book isn't edubuntu specific enough.
<HedgeMage> spacey: I'd try to touch on what teachers can do with the computers in their classroom, both one-computer-per-class settings and lab settings
<Pygi> kjcole: ++
<flint> spacey, I looked over your spec and you want to get someting out the door, done.  do this the quickest and best way. what every engineer in life does is take the last version and build from there.
<HedgeMage> spacey: have you ever worked in a school where computers are very new to 90% of the teachers?
<spacey> HedgeMage: yes i do
<spacey> at least they don't know anything about it
<spacey> they just click on the icons
<spacey> HedgeMage: the key software is covered in the chapter list
<spacey> basicly that is your main point right? to make them familiar with available software?
<HedgeMage> spacey: nope, more than that
<spacey> Pygi: what i said might be something to add as usecase btw :P
<spacey> HedgeMage: example?
<HedgeMage> spacey: Teachers need to know how to integrate this new stuff into their lesson plans, how to figure out what lessons will benefit and which won't, and how to integrate it into the way they teach
<flint> the tuxlab howto covers the subject in 14 chapters and an appendix.
<HedgeMage> spacey: okay, two typical teachers from my mom's school to illustrate:
<Pygi> flint: as said, tuxlab book is not edubuntu specific enough, and while we are surely to use it, we won't just copy it
<kjcole> The Use Cases listed should perhaps also include students.  And the table of contents can be structured to allow more advanced users to skip introductory material.
<flint> HedgeMage, you validly bring up the subjects of curriculum development and education.  sadly we are not equiped for that yet.  we have no foundation...
* HedgeMage nods to flint 
<Pygi> kjcole: perhaps there will even not be introducory material ...
* flint nods back... :^)
<spacey> flint: your either not specific enough or completely off topic. Rewrite tuxlabs is not our goal
<spacey> saying stuff like that has no foundation
<flint> spacey, what I am suggesting to you is that the frivolity of the cookbook is not expeditious.  we need to get something out now.
<spacey> Pygi: i think we have some extra ideas for usecases
<spacey> flint: we are here because we want something out
<HedgeMage> flint: I started a project on this once... humorously titled "Help! The computer ate my classroom!"... I may restart it, but in the mean time, I think integrating a little (even a short chapter) of introductory material somewhere, at least to get teachers thinking about it as they learn to use the software.
<flint> jonathan did a serviceable job with the tuxlab howto.  we fix it and move on schedule.
<kjcole> If you hope to recruit newcomers, then I think introductory material is essential.  I don't see many educators who have computers already set up by an IT person saying "Gee, let's throw out everything I know and hope that something I never heard of is better."
<HedgeMage> *I think it might be beneficial
<spacey> HedgeMage: can you write some ideas about this stuff in an email and send it to list, we might be able to do something with it then
<spacey> i want to move on to the next topic now
<flint> HedgeMage, stop the presses!!!! I am very interested.  is there a url where we may see this?
<HedgeMage> spacey: sure thing... Won't happen until the weekend though
<spacey> HedgeMage: ok
<spacey> 2) Set deadlines for Dapper version.
<spacey> we setted up some deadlines
<HedgeMage> flint: I'll pop it back on my website and include info in the list email
* HedgeMage listens to spacey 
<spacey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Deadlines
<spacey> any comments on that
<spacey> those deadlines are needed to get everything in dapper
<flint> april 15 th is the deadline for filing US income taxes... ech!
<spacey> i don't think it needs much discussion
<spacey> especially because ogra is not here
<spacey> so we can move on
<flint> spacey, nice job...
<spacey> 3) Define scope. What do we want in the book and what not.
<spacey> this point should be defined a bit more specificly
<spacey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Scope
<spacey> \but it should give a good impression 
<kjcole> Benefits of thin-client computing would seem appropriate to me...
<flint> HedgeMage, thanks mail the url to (flint@flint.com)
<kjcole> Why does that work better on the web?
<spacey> kjcole: i think it has a better place on the edubuntu website
<Pygi> kjcole: you know, we don't have many time to write it all....and we have little people :)
<HedgeMage> flint: will do
<spacey> because
<spacey> the cookbook is something you use during installation
<spacey> if you read about the benifits its before hand
<spacey> its a must have on the website
<kjcole> Ah.  So, that narrows the scope considerably if it's really only an installation howto.
<HedgeMage> spacey: we're reaching for something like the Gentoo Handbook, an exhausted how-to-get-this-thing-going sort of document, correct?
<Pygi> uh,uh, not only during installation
<spacey> and its not useful to dupliclicate in a book
<HedgeMage> s/exhausted/exhaustive (freudian slip?)
<spacey> Pygi: ok true
<spacey> and after
<spacey> but not really before imho
<spacey> HedgeMage: its more to cover the basics
<spacey> get people to know how things work
<spacey> where to look things up
<HedgeMage> spacey: okay, gotcha
<spacey> we don't want to duplicate ubuntu documentation
<spacey> thats a waste of effort
* HedgeMage nods
<spacey> but they should know where to find it
<HedgeMage> makes sense.
<spacey> make the reader familiar with the system and ways
<spacey> 4) Collaboration method. Wiki? Docbook?
<spacey> We intend to use the wiki for now
<spacey> see link
<kjcole> So, Installation, Troubleshooting, Optional Configuration Tweaks and you're done.  Bascially.  Right?
<spacey> kjcole: a bit more
<spacey> also introduction to the key software
<spacey> kjcole: see chapter layout 
<spacey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/CollaborationMethod
<spacey> 5) Revise current chapter layout.
<spacey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters
<spacey> thats the current layout i propose
<spacey> needs some revision
<spacey> and actually i wanted to discuss which points each chapter should cover
<kjcole> Wiki +1.  It seems to be the lowest rung on the ladder.
<Pygi> also, articles for chapters should be written
<spacey> but i don't think this meeting is useful for that
<spacey> should be more of a work meeting for that, between authors
<spacey> Pygi: what do you think
<spacey> that was 6) Define what each chapter should cover.
<spacey> btw
<spacey> great we are going *really* fast
<spacey> item: 7) Assign roles and responsibilities
<spacey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/RolesAndResponsibilities
<kjcole> Does the intro cover the "What's inside?" part of things?
<spacey> kjcole: whats inside... the book?
<HedgeMage> spacey: somewhere in here will we want to touch on getting a *very minimal* web presence up?  most schools, at least in the US, making a change like this will have to be very aware of having something to show to the community at large, to keep their support.
<spacey> HedgeMage: webpresence for us?
<spacey> there is www.edubuntu.org
<kjcole> spacey: No.  Earlier it was said that the book should give people an idea of what edubuntu software's included.  I didn't see a specific chapter for that, so I'm guessing in the Introduction.
<spacey> kjcole: let me check
<HedgeMage> spacey: no, for schools
<spacey> HedgeMage: i think its out of scope, webservers are ubuntu documentation scope
<spacey> kjcole: ah yes i see its not in the list, i had it in mind
<spacey> but didn't know where to put it
<HedgeMage> spacey: okay.
<spacey> i guess it should come after the introduction
<kjcole> spacey: sounds good to me.
<spacey> Pygi: note :P
<HedgeMage> kjcole: nice catch :)
<kjcole> HedgeMage: One of very, very few, I'm afraid.
<HedgeMage> kjcole: :P
<spacey> <spacey> item: 7) Assign roles and responsibilities
<spacey> <spacey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/RolesAndResponsibilities
<spacey> to finish up with that
<spacey> are there more reponsibilties for the roles or more roles needed?
<kjcole> BTW, no one liked the "Appetizers, etc" well enough to keep that?  Just too silly?  Or not easy to map to?
<spacey> kjcole: its quite funny
<spacey> i wasnt thinking about naming the parts yet
<spacey> but we'll probably use it
<spacey> any comments on item 7?
<HedgeMage> I'll jump in and do *something* just not sure what/where :)
<spacey> HedgeMage: if you decide to write a part just be sure to finish it 
<kjcole> Well, I wasn't very good at managing...  I did a lot of conversion of material between docbook, Lore and wiki.  Plus some rehashing of the content of Tuxlab.  But I've never done the LTSP stuff and am not in a classroom.  So, I'm not sure at this point what I can contribute.
<spacey> i have to go now
<spacey> sorry for that
<spacey> have to visit doctor
<kjcole> spacey: ta-ta.
<spacey> Pygi will take over from me
<HedgeMage> spacey: go, be healthy, see you later.
<spacey> and finish things up
<kjcole> Is it just me, or did it just get very quiet in here? ;-)
<spacey> Pygi: :p
<HedgeMage> lol
<Pygi> ok, let's finish this up ....
<Pygi> can anyone here be certain he'll be able to contribute, and what exactly?
<HedgeMage> Pygi: I can donate about 15 hours between now and the first deadline, just not sure where I'll be the most useful.
<kjcole> If it's on the wiki, I can review for grammar and style, I think.
<highvoltage> hi
<Pygi> hello highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi Pygi 
<Pygi> highvoltage, pm please
<highvoltage> ok
<Pygi> HedgeMage, will write it down
<kjcole> Pygi: (I guess that falls under "Linguistic Quality Assurance".)  Other than that, I'm really not certain.  I suppose I can try to test according to the book.  I keep hoping to recruit a "virgin" to do that sort of thing, but no luck yet.
<Pygi> kjcole: ok, we'll see what we will do ...
<HedgeMage> Pygi: may I drop you a quick /msg ?
<Pygi> HedgeMage: please do
<highvoltage> i'll catch up on the meeting details i've missed so far on the logs
<kjcole> One problem I see w/ testing is, to quote the wiki, a definition of "People with basic ICT skills".  As a programmer, I have a lot of experience (+27 years) with COMPUTERS.  But I wouldn't know a router from a hub from a switch if I fell over them.
<kjcole> Most would interpret "basic ITC skills" as "knows how to turn computer on, knows how to install Microsoft Office, knows how to dial tech support."
<HedgeMage> lol
<Pygi> ah
<kjcole> So, when testing, there should be a "lowest common denominator".  If I test, I'm going to pretend to be fairly ignorant of anything other than Windoze and an ethernet cable to a wall.  Things like public/private IP addresses?  I don't know what that is: When I turn on my Windoze machine at work it just "gets e-mail and lets me browse the web"...
<Pygi> kjcole: wrong attitude
<Pygi> we are not to write what an IP is
<Pygi> out of scope
<kjcole> Pygi: So, for setting up Edubuntu, I won't need to know anything about DHCP configuration stuff?
<Pygi> you will, but for that you have ubuntu docs ;)
<Pygi> kjcole: how much "pages" do you expect the book to have? infinite? :P
<kjcole> Pygi, So the person setting up should get savvy with setting up a straight Ubuntu server before doing the Edubuntu setup?
<Pygi> hm, no, we'll put info how it should be configured, but won't explain why is it configured that way
<kjcole> Pygi, That works.  ;-)
<Pygi> KISS
<Pygi> ;)
<Pygi> for normal users, it works ;)
<Pygi> Keep it simple, stupid :-P
<Pygi> anyway, I think we can end with the meeting 
<Pygi> everyone agrees?
<Pygi> not that there are people to disagree :P
<kjcole> Pygi: I like the short and sweet (or the simple and stupid).  I'm just trying to think like someone who's been asked to set this thing up, but doesn't have the time to go reading lots of different docs.
<kjcole> Pygi: Yeah.  Seems kind of quiet again.  And it's getting near my lunchtime...
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> Pygi: btw, any chance this could end up being the permanent meeting time?  1200 UTC is 4am for me... that just doesn't work on a weekday (I need sleep occassionally)
<kjcole> Bye...
<Pygi> bye
<GNAM> where's log of "dapper status" of today?
<dholbach> read the topic please
<GNAM> i've read
<GNAM> and not found
<dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<flint> HedgeMage, you still here?
<HedgeMage> flint: back now :)
<HedgeMage> flint: what's up?
<Pygi> welcome back HedgeMage
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council | 05 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<HedgeMage> thanks :)
<flint> HedgeMage, sorry for the temporal chop, I suddenly gotta make a living on this silly box.... anyway, please email me your document url, i think that it may tie into my plans for work domination... buahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
<HedgeMage> lol
<HedgeMage> flint: I have to find it and pop it online again (probably this weekend)... I lost a lot of data when last we moved, and I'm going to have to grab it from a backup
* HedgeMage grumbles about stupid army movers
<flint> I try to reflect on the question "our army or their army" :^)
<HedgeMage> flint: US Army
<HedgeMage> flint: my husband is in the military
<flint> HedgeMage, did my time... http://www.flint.com/flint/vita_sf.html  ended up running like a scared rabbit from a burning 5 sided building... not fun.
* HedgeMage nods.
<flint> HedgeMage, ...funny story that... NOT!
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-05
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Documentation Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council | 05 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<mdke> shall we meet?
<LaserJock> are we ready for some FUN?
<robotgeek> here
<trappist> let's do it
<Burgwork> for certain values of fun
<mdke> ok, is there an agenda?
<Burgwork> nope, but I have some points to raise
<trappist> I didn't see a reference to one
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda has an item about that *other* DE
<mdke> Burgwork, stick em on the page
<mdke> LaserJock, ewww
<mdke> shall we start with a basic overview of where documents are at? that might be useful?
<robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects is the main page :)
<robotgeek> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/status/kdg-report.html is the status report for Kubuntu Desktop Guide
<mdke> robotgeek, what sections are struggling?
<robotgeek> i really need help in the "Hardware" section, as i don't own any of those devices
<trappist> what hardware needs help?
<robotgeek> the "Configuring your system" needs some love in the networking section, i am working on it though
<robotgeek> palms, digital camera and cell phones
<trappist> bleh, I don't have those either
<mdke> ok, the second of those sounds important
<mdke> isn't it just "plug in"
<trappist> should we solicit help from #kubuntu from somebody who does?
<robotgeek> yeah, but i can't verify anything without the hardware
<mdke> good plan trappist 
<mdke> harass jjesse about it
<robotgeek> jjesse might be the man
<robotgeek> jjesse: need help with hardware in kubuntu :)
<jjesse> sorry missed it
<jjesse> sure i'll tackle it robotgeek
<robotgeek> great!
<jjesse> is that the biggest section you need robotgeek for the desktopguide
<robotgeek> other than that, i think everything is done. 
<robotgeek> i am proofreading too, and made a bunch of changes yesterday
* LaserJock shoots an envious glance at robotgeek 
<robotgeek> LaserJock: my work was easier as I had the UDG to rely on
<mdke> nice work
<mdke> i think the UDG is in reasonable shape, barring any last minute tidying up
<trappist> I laid backed off the apache stuff in the serverguide when that new guy offered himself up, but I don't recall hearing from him since then
<trappist> s/laid//
<mdke> new guy?
* trappist checks logs
<mdke> might have been me
<LaserJock> yep, mdke is the new guy for sure ;-)
<robotgeek> heh
<trappist> k31th
<mdke> oh right
<mdke> he won't do anything
<mdke> he's been showing up saying he'll write stuff for a number of release cycles :)
<trappist> that's probably the safe assumption.  I've been spending my spare time on bugs since he said that.  I'll try to find some time this weekend for apache.  we still need help on wireless.
<trappist> except, does wireless belong in the serverguide?
<mdke> what is the wireless bit about?
<mdke> i was gonna say...
<trappist> it's part of the network configuration section
<robotgeek> the wiki has nice guides
<trappist> shall we just get rid of it?
<trappist> robotgeek: I've heard that's true
<robotgeek> trappist: is the section about making your computer a wireless hub (exotic)
<trappist> plus we have the new network-manager with wpa goodness and stuff
<trappist> robotgeek: no
<trappist> there is no such section
<trappist> it's just a network config section
<mdke> trappist, unless it's about making an AP or something, i say we nuke it
<trappist> agreed
<robotgeek> trappist: yeah, it doesn't belong in the server guide :)
<mdke> ok, so the apache section needs some work for virtual hosts, and general reviewing
<trappist> mdke: what I saw in virtual hosts made me worry that the rest might need a lot of work too, but I haven't looked more closely yet
<robotgeek> oh, btw the k31th guy also offered to write some Flight stuff for Kubuntu (havent heard from him)
* neuralis raises his hand for a question when you folks have a second.
<mdke> trappist, yes, how was the rest of the stuff you read?
<mdke> neuralis, shoot
<trappist> mdke: didn't read the rest.  I read the vhost stuff and got freaked out and mailed the list
<neuralis> mdke: are you guys preparing in any way for the official book release? there'll be a book worth of content to plaster on the web somewhere, probably in an editable, wiki-like environment.
<mdke> neuralis, no, that's not related to us
<mdke> oh you mean by publishing the book itself?
<neuralis> mdke: no. when the book is released, it becomes gfdl/cc-licensed documentation.
<mdke> Burgwork, is that your licence?
<neuralis> mdke: yes.
<neuralis> mdke: i'm one of the authors.
<Burgwork> mdke, neuralis is writing the server chapter
<mdke> ah, you're ivan!
<neuralis> mdke: yes, pleased to meet you.
<mdke> same
<jjesse> neuralis: i'm writing the kubuntu chapter :)
<mdke> i assumed that the publishers would be publishing the book online
<neuralis> mdke: now, what i was saying -- you'll at some point get a dump of the chapters that you're free to use.
<neuralis> mdke: what makes the most sense, imo, is to create a separate documentation wiki and import the book there.
<neuralis> then open up the wiki to the public.
<mdke> neuralis, a second documentation wiki?
<neuralis> jjesse: cool!
<Burgwork> neuralis, are we certain it is going to be gfdl as well. I only saw the ccbysa on the last complete draft
<jjesse> i didn't know that was happening
<neuralis> mdke: is there a separate dociwki already?
<neuralis> Burgwork: according to mako, it's gfdl+cc.
<mdke> neuralis, no, there is documentation on the main wiki. But we're hoping to move it
<Burgwork> neuralis, 
<Burgwork> I would rather munge the book into the desktop guide post dapper
<neuralis> mdke: right. it just shouldn't mix with the regular w.u.c wiki.
<Burgwork> rahter than put it on the wiki
<neuralis> Burgwork: well, there's content in there that doesn't really belong in the desktop guide (i hear some dude is writing a server chapter).
<mdke> neuralis, i'd also hesitate to mix it with our documentation, it would get very confusing
<jjesse> that would work in the servguide
<neuralis> Burgwork: and you want to benefit from the community continuing to update the material.
<mdke> neuralis, we have a server guide too...
<Burgwork> neuralis, the communtiy can touch the desktop guide
<Burgwork> desktop guide wins us translation and pdf format
<neuralis> mdke, Burgwork: i'll support whatever you choose to do with the content, but there's importance in a low barrier of entry to people continuing to work on the material.
<neuralis> going much above "log into the wiki and edit" is not a good idea.
<mdke> neuralis, well, if we could work only on a wiki, we would. But we can't for the distro documentation
<Burgwork> I would rather work on getting an easy way for people to work on docbook
<jjesse> +1 Burgwork
<trappist> man would that be nice
<Burgwork> because that would win us a lot more than just one guide
<neuralis> docudo promises to do this.
<Burgwork> we should investgate that doc editor done for gnome by google soc
<trappist> I tried installing XMetaL via wine but it didn't happen
<Burgwork> that was online
<neuralis> http://www.checkandshare.com/blog/?p=42
<mdke> i am a fan of the idea of using bits of the book for the various guides and wiki articles, but publishing it alongside might cause too much overlap
<neuralis> seems promising; the docteam should get involved with the project and helping them spec it out so you can use it for your needs.
<neuralis> s/helping/help/
<Burgwork> mdke, we should look at restructuring hte desktop guide to allow easy publishing of it, instead of the official book
<Burgwork> ie, use the desktop guide as the target for any future book publishing
<mdke> that would be nice.
<neuralis> Burgwork, mdke: anyway, i'll let you guys return to your regularly scheduled programming. i wanted to bring up the issue so i know you guys are thinking about it.
<mdke> neuralis, while you're here. Have you got time to have a quick look at the server guide over the next week or so? It has been a bit neglected and we'd love some input on what sort of state it is in
<Burgwork> neuralis, np. I has been in my thought process for a few months yet
<mdke> neuralis, yep, thanks for raising it
<neuralis> mdke: i'm totally unavailable until the week after this one.
<mdke> neuralis, fair enough, thanks anyway
<mdke> I'll read your chapter and see if our guide is anywhere near accurate :)
<neuralis> mdke: there's a big difference in scope between my chapter and the server guide, last i looked at it.
<mdke> sure
<neuralis> ok, i'm disappearing. thanks, folks.
<mdke> thanks
<mdke> where were we at?
<LaserJock> Kubuntu Desktop Guide status? or are we done with that
<mdke> i think so, jjesse and robotgeek are gonna team up and kick ass
<robotgeek> nuking wireless section in server guide
<jjesse> i thought we were done with that?
<jjesse> mdke thanks for the vote of confidence :)
<robotgeek> :)
<trappist> unknown just how much work apache needs in serverguide
<mdke> ok, nuke the wireless, check to see if the server guide is ok
<mdke> ubuntu desktop guide
<mdke> Burgwork, you had an item on it?
<Burgwork> yep
<mdke> Burgwork, go ahead
<Burgwork> I am going to do a complete review of the desktop guide this weekend, but I need to make certain I am not stepping on anybodies toes
<mdke> cool
<jjesse> both the kubuntu and ubuntu or just ubuntu?
<Burgwork> just ubuntu
<Burgwork> are there any parts I shouldn't touch?
<mdke> Burgwork, what sort of stepping did you have in mind?
<jjesse> ok then when i lock myself in my office to finish my kubuntu chapter i'll review the desktopguide as well
<Burgwork> I see some bits that need some rearrangement and merging
<robotgeek> thanks jjesse 
<mdke> i think i'd prefer it if you tell me or burger senior about rearranging the structure
<mdke> but we can always just check your commit logs
<Burgwork> hmm, maybe I should sit down with my brother and hash it out
<Burgwork> advantage of living in the same town as him
<mdke> heh yeah that would rock
<Burgwork> is he the primary author? I haven't truly been paying attention, due to other things
<LaserJock> the Burger Doc Sprint ?
<mdke> Burgwork, him and me are maintaining it
<Burgwork> ok
<jjesse> mmmm burgers sound good for dinner
<mdke> ok, look forward to Corey's contribution on UDG
<mdke> LaserJock, PG?
<LaserJock> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/status/pg-report.html
<mdke> looks promising
<LaserJock> + Chroot Environment -> Awaiting Review
<mdke> CDBS is big stuff isn't it?
<LaserJock> + Updating Packages -> In Progress
<LaserJock> well, yes and no
<LaserJock> CDBS is simple to use, if it works
<LaserJock> I was planning on just doing a brief into and mostly reference the Duckcorp guide
<LaserJock> mostly because I've never used CDBS before
<LaserJock> but I got raphink to help me with that
<LaserJock> also the Kubuntu stuff
<mdke> cool, sounds like you're on track
<LaserJock> well, I'm very worried about it but I'm trying my best
<mdke> if you need to take a bit more time over it, I'm sure it won't be a problem
<jjesse> how can we help review it?
<jjesse> as i don't know anything about packaging :)
<LaserJock> you guys should just review anything that is "Awaiting Review" on the status report
<LaserJock> I'm targeting more advanced users without any packaging experience
<LaserJock> but I use the CLI heavily
<LaserJock> so if you guys can catch grammar and spelling
<LaserJock> and also where I'm putting to much jargon in, etc. that would be very helpful
<mdke> cool
<mdke> anything else on this?
<LaserJock> after I'm reasonably done (this weekend, I'm pretty sure)  I'm going to send an email to -motu and -devel and ask for review from developers
<LaserJock> really, the Introduction, Getting Started and Bugs chapters should be pretty easy to get through for people with no packaging experience
<LaserJock> so if I can get some fresh eyes to tell me when I'm going too easy or too hard that would be useful
<LaserJock> that's pretty much it for the Packaging Guide for now
<mdke> ok thanks LaserJock 
<mdke> any other docs to discuss?
<LaserJock> If I may, can I bring up a quick licensing issue?
<mdke> sure
<mdke> in passing, kubuntu release notes hasn't been converted to the new world order for contributor attribution
<mdke> nor has ubuntu release notes
<robotgeek> mdke: who maintains the one for kubuntu? jjesse ?
<mdke> dunno
<jjesse> i do
<jjesse> i'm behind :(
<LaserJock> Somebody, I can't remember who, was on #ubuntu-doc the other day and wanted to contribute material from Wikipedia to either the wiki and/or docs but wasn't sure if he could because of the wiki license
<mdke> oh yeah, i read that
<LaserJock> is that an issue?
<mdke> if the licensing is moved to Public domain, he's right that he can't copy from wikipedia
<mdke> personally, I think that's fine
<robotgeek> jjesse: we some time on that, right?
<jjesse> yes we do have sometime
<mdke> anyhow, you can't copy from wikipedia without correct attribution, etc, etc
<LaserJock> so why would our wiki be different?
<mdke> because it would be in the public domain
<mdke> wikipedia is under copyright
<LaserJock> hmm
<mdke> subject to the GFDL licence
<mdke> any more agenda action? bed calls
<Burgwork> nope
<LaserJock> I think PD is better but it stinks that we can't share content
<mdke> LaserJock, eh?
<mdke> sharing the content is the whole point of moving
<LaserJock> mdke: moving content from wikipedia to our wiki is what I mean
<mdke> oh right. you have to get wikipedia to move to PD :)
<LaserJock> what about from our docs to the wiki?
<LaserJock> I know that usually it goes the other way around, but
<LaserJock> I wonder if there would be a case for people making wiki pages that incorporate material from the docs
<mdke> you have to get us to move to PD
<mdke> :)
<LaserJock> lol, can't see that happening
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta go. I've got a meeting
<mdke> see ya
<mdke> bye all
<jjesse> ok work's over have a great day/night :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-07
<kbrooks> Seveas, any meeting on yet?
<Seveas> kbrooks, if there were a meeting, it would be in the topic
<kbrooks> good
<Seveas> first meeting is tomorrow at 0900 UTC
<Seveas> kbrooks, what's your timezone?
<kbrooks> what is the scope of the ubuntu community council?
<kbrooks> well, EDT now
<Seveas> see wiki.u.c/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<Seveas> @schedule new_york
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 03 Apr 05:00: Community Council | 05 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 10:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu
<kbrooks> Seveas, i am there. the agenda is just one item
<Seveas> kbrooks, there are quite a few new member applications 
<kbrooks> heh, 5 in the morning
<kbrooks> *laughs*
<kbrooks> Seveas, well, i can idle, but thats it.
<kbrooks> i plan to apply for being a member when i have made an actual contribution to ubuntu
<highvoltage> @schedule cape_town
<kbrooks> how do i "publish" my signature of the ubuntu COC?
<bmonty> kbrooks: in launchpad
<kbrooks> bmonty, i did that. is that all ;)
<bmonty> kbrooks: as long as launchpad shows that you have signed the CoC
<kbrooks> bmonty: ok
<Seveas> Kyle Brooks  (kyle-brooks)
<Seveas> Preferred address:
<Seveas> kyle@kbrooks.ath.cx
<Seveas> Timezone: Canada/Eastern
<Seveas> Ubuntero: Yes
<Seveas> Karma: 27630
<Seveas> Ubuntero: Yes means you signed the CoC
<Seveas> @schedule Canada/Eastern
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Canada/Eastern: 03 Apr 05:00: Community Council | 05 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 10:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu
<kbrooks> @schedule EDT
<kbrooks> Heh.
<highvoltage> @schedule SAST
<kbrooks> sivang, hi
<kbrooks> sivang, who is this again? #ubuntu-desktop regular?
<bmonty> @schedule US/Central
<sivang> kbrooks: ?
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 03 Apr 04:00: Community Council | 05 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 09:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 03:00: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 15:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu
<Seveas> kbrooks, sivang is the resident evil home-user-backup-builder
<kbrooks> Seveas, Yes, I know
<Seveas> do not feed, stay at least 100 meters away ;)
<kbrooks> Seveas, lol
<kbrooks> Seveas, funny
<kbrooks> Seveas, seriously though.... ;)
<kbrooks> 6 weeks = From april 20 to june 1 (i just counted on the calendar built into gnome)
<sivang> Seveas: hehe
<sivang> Seveas: but true :)
* Seveas hugs sivang 
<stgraber> You want the ETTV passwords, next ETTVs list, ... come on #Pr3dS.Gaming
<stgraber> sorry
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-08
<nictuku> I wonder if it is ok to ask someone else to review my profile and, obviously unofficially, see if my contributions are enough to support my ubuntu membership application... ?!
<highvoltage> @schedule
<Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
<highvoltage> @schedule UTC
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 03 Apr 09:00: Community Council | 05 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 14:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 08:00: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu
<DanielFaulknor> @schedule NZT
<DanielFaulknor> @schedule NZ
<Ubugtu> Schedule for NZ: 03 Apr 21:00: Community Council | 06 Apr 00:00: Edubuntu | 06 Apr 02:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 20:00: Dapper Development Status | 12 Apr 08:00: Technical Board | 13 Apr 00:00: Edubuntu
<juliux> @schedule MEZ
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council | 05 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
<DecIRC>  /msg nickserv set unfiltered on
<DecIRC> oops, sorry, 
<highvoltage> good thing that wasn't nickerv identify :)
<nictuku> hehe
<bstqc_ostl> Has CC meeting begin?
<nictuku> no
<bstqc_ostl> Will it begin after 30 minutes?
<juliux> yes
<bstqc_ostl> nictuku,juliux:thanks!
<Cassidy> DecIRC: ping ?
<DecIRC> Cassidy, sorry, was in another room (in real life)
<Cassidy> DecIRC: pv
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Seveas> Kamion, any sign of the rest of the CC yet?
<highvoltage> not as far as i'm aware
<ploum> Hello DecIRC and all belgians :-)
<Cassidy> hi ploum !
<DecIRC> Hello ploum and everybody. 
<bstqc_ostl> hello,everyone!I am Victor.
<highvoltage> hi Victor.
<lifeless> Hi Victor, I'm robert, and I'm a code junkie
<Seveas> c'est un ploum - run while you can
<bstqc_ostl> hi:highvoltage,Hi,lifeless
<ploum> Seveas: hehe ;-)
<nictuku> hi all :-)
<bstqc_ostl> nice to meet you all :-)
<dholbach> hi bstqc_ostl :-)
<nictuku> my friends seems to be sleeping. I wonder if I should remove my name from the agenda hehe
<akulah> hello!
<akulah> all
<bstqc_ostl> hi,dholback.I have waiting for this moment for a long time!
<dholbach> bstqc_ostl: I know. I just hope the Community Council turns up soon.
<thesaltydog> ciao dholbach !
<lifeless> piongs are progressing
<lifeless> Kamion: are you trying to reach anyone ?
<imtheface> hi all
<nictuku> hi imtheface!
<zakame> hi all
* zakame is ZakElep
<highvoltage> hi zakame 
<zakame> hello highvoltage 
<Seveas> (I am at a lecture right now and am the TA - so I may be unresponsive at times)
<lifeless> I'm betting they are confused because of TZ change last weekend. Or something.
<nictuku> or maybe because traditionally the meetings are on tuesdays
<DanielFaulknor> how many people are missing?
<Kamion> shit, sorry, I slept in
<highvoltage> shouldn't sabdfl be here? i see he's in -devel.
<lifeless> Kamion: you're the only one here so far :{
<Seveaz> mornin' Kamion
<sabdfl> sorry all
<Seveas> mornin' mark
<highvoltage> morning sabdfl :)
<sabdfl> morning
<lifeless> morning
<zakame> hello sabdfl 
<ploum> 'morning ... 
<imtheface> afternoon here! :)
* ploum just think is a fish in "The meaning of life" :-D
<sabdfl> where are we on the agenda?
<Kamion> we aren't
<DecIRC> good morning sabdfl 
<sabdfl> hi kamion, do we have quorum?
<lifeless> you have 2 so far
<Kamion> sabdfl: you and me so far
<lifeless> claire is phoning elmo
<sabdfl> elmo's on EST
<bstqc_ostl> hello,sabdfl
<Kamion> elmo said last time he'd get up if he needed to
<sabdfl> he's getting up
<Seveas> claire is waking the beast ;)
<sabdfl> morning
<sabdfl> Kamion: do you want to put the quorum idea forward as a suggestion?
<Kamion> the TB consider == 50% to be quorum, whereas we require > 50%
<Kamion> perhaps we should move into sync with them for smaller issues so that we don't have so many quorum problems
<sabdfl> that's fine by me with CC for memebrships, loco, issues that don't involve a change of policy
<sabdfl> elmo?
<elmo> umm, I'm not thrilled by the idea - I mean, have we actually cancelled more than one meeting because of quorum issues?
<sabdfl> not that i'm aware. seveas?
<Seveas> no, but the decisions were delayed
<Seveas> there always have been 3 out of 4 votes
<elmo> I realise the whole last minute phoning to get quorum thing is less than ideal, but OTOH, I think things like membership sometimes benefit from a wider coverage of CC staff
<elmo> IMHO
<Seveas> one exception: when a few community members got to vote since sabdfl had to leave
<elmo> so, err like, -0.5 from me or something
<Seveas> Maybe having an extra CC member will help
<Seveas> then 3 out of 5 should be around instead of 3 out of 4
<sabdfl> agreed
<Kamion> we have had to process memberships and wait for a third member to ack them later, a few times
<Kamion> I take elmo's point though
<sabdfl> we might grow an AsiaPac council member to help with timezones too, right now we cover americas and europe well
<sabdfl> will take that under consideration
<Seveas> with my sleeping rhythm I cover all timezones ;)
<sabdfl> let's hold off on the quorum == 50% thing for now
<sabdfl> and get started on today's agenda
<sabdfl> highvoltage: you behind the edubuntu loco idea?
<sabdfl> want to tell us a bit about it?
<highvoltage> sabdfl: yes
<highvoltage> thank you
<highvoltage> Hi Ubuntu Community Council
<highvoltage> I don't expect a final answer on this now, but I would certainly appreciate your input on this.
<highvoltage> We have received a request from an Italian community member (Andrea Veri) to start an Edubuntu loco team.
<highvoltage> He's already quite active, especially with regards to Edubuntu Advocacy in his surrounding areas, speaking to different schools about the benefits of Edubuntu in schools.
<highvoltage> We don't currently have Edubuntu loco teams, and we're wondering if it's wise to split loco teams into Edubuntu and Ubuntu loco teams, since Italy already has a loco team.
<highvoltage> There are good reasons, imo, ot have a seperate team, and to keep it as one group.
<highvoltage> What it comes down to, is, having split groups will mean that theres overlap in goals, and possible duplication of work. On the other side, I can understand why someone would want an Edubuntu specific team, that focusses on schools and their needs specifically.
<highvoltage> The best solution for this I could think of, is to have them seperate, but still integrated.
<highvoltage> So you might have an Edubuntu loco in your country, but it is still part of the bigger loco team. And perhaps there should be some policy to say that the bigger loco should accept the smaller interest-specific groups into the bigger team.
<highvoltage> Those are just the lines I thought along, but we would just like to see what's best for the Edubuntu community. Any thoughts on this from CC?
<Seveas> How about an edubuntu subteam in the existing locoteam, just like the edubuntu team is a subteam of Ubuntu ?
<sabdfl> the advantage is - folks get to focus on the thing they are passionate about
<sabdfl> edubuntu may diverge in future, if it gets sufficient mass and theres a need to do so
<highvoltage> yep
<sabdfl> the disadvantage is there is an opportunity for unhealthy rivalry
<highvoltage> some people are very specific in what they'd like to do with schools, and some people more specifically, have a bigger educational focus
<elmo> with the increasing number of derivatives, I worry about scalability problems with entirely separate groups - I'd prefer we try subgroups or other solutions in the first instance until we come up with a clear need/use case for entirely separate groups?
<sabdfl> say, for example, two guys in a loco team don't get on, one goes off to start the "edubuntu" loco team, but in reality it's just an excuse to demarcate turf
<sabdfl> we already do have multiple overlapping loco teams, like country teams and city teams
<sabdfl> so i don't actually have a problem with this at all
<sabdfl> unless its abused to fuel factionism
<highvoltage> perhaps there should be some kind of policy for loco teams, that they have to work together with other, more specific loco teams, at least to a degree (and where there's overlap)
<Seveas> sabdfl, indeed. If the teams cooperate, any structure will do.
<highvoltage>  if this is the way to go (having an edubuntu loco), should the edubuntu loco team go through the same approval process as an ubuntu loco team?
<sabdfl> how about we say yes, and see what happens? i expect we will have kubuntu loco teams soon too
<sabdfl> highvoltage: yes, definitely
<highvoltage> great.
<highvoltage> is CC okay that we do this? we can add the Italian loco team to the list for the next CC meeting then?
<sabdfl> elmo: w.r.t. use cases, we do have some guys wanting a team focused on edubuntu already
<sabdfl> we should have some sort of "principle of least interference"
<sabdfl> which suggests that, unless we have a CoC type issue, community members who want to organise in a particular way should get the freedom to try it
<lifeless> Ubuntu's Prime Directive ?
<sabdfl> unless its because of social problems, in which case we need to climb in and resolve those
<sabdfl> (i.e. the forum forking discussion)
<elmo> *shrug*
<elmo> ok
<Seveas> lifeless, ubuntu's prime directive is the CoC
<lifeless> Seveas: I was being humourous, sorry.
<Kamion> I have the same scalability issues as elmo for the record; Edubuntu does seem to have a good use case for being separate, but I can't see a good use case for Kubuntu in the same way
<highvoltage> lifeless: and that counts for edubuntu, kubuntu, and xubuntu as well
<lifeless> Seveas: 'principle of non interference'
<Kamion> in that Edubuntu is going out and talking to a very very different set of people
<highvoltage> Kamion: i agree with you there.
<Kamion> whereas Kubuntu is just "people who like KDE", which is a whole lot more nebulous
<Kamion> likewise Xubuntu
<zakame> hmm increasing granularity
<sabdfl> people do get quite passionate about the whole kde / gnome thing, though :-)
<highvoltage> kubuntu, xubuntu and ubuntu are really pretty much the same in terms of users, target market, etc. while edubuntu has some very distinct differences there.
<sabdfl> i think people will generally be more energetic if they feel they can associate with the parts of the "ubuntu project" which most closely aligns with their own interests
<Seveas> sabdfl, definitely
<elmo> sabdfl: right, but unless the teams cooperate, there's going to be a lot of duplicated/wasted effort
<elmo> (but OTOH, I get your non-interference thing, so I'm just saying)
<elmo> I mean there's a reason ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu etc. all share the same archive
<highvoltage> elmo: couldn't that be fixed on policy level, so that teams know they're not supposed to "compete"?
<sabdfl> elmo: how about we make it clear that we are all in this together and specialisation is not the same as competition?
<Seveas> sabdfl, sounds like a nice amendment for the CoC
<sabdfl> i think having a strong edubuntu team in a city is a big help to the ubuntu loco team, for example
<elmo> sure, that'd be good
<sabdfl> as long as they don't compete and trashtalk one another
<highvoltage> members who do that should be dismissed, imho
<sabdfl> i can think of one bad scenario, say, where a school district wants to deploy ubuntu, and is looking for contractors, and members of those teams start competing for the work
<sabdfl> talking down ubuntu / edubuntu as a proxy for competing for the funding
<thesaltydog> one solution could be to consider edubuntu loco a branch of the ubuntu LoCoTeam..
<sabdfl> could equally well happen with kubuntu
<highvoltage> sabdfl: an answer to that might be, that they should start another team for commercial work, and that the loco group is for community work. or does that go against how things are currently set up?
<sabdfl> ultimately, it's the underlying people and how they feel that matter
* jsgotangco peeks
<sabdfl> let's deal with those sorts of issues when they arise, and just resolve to say we expect the highest standard of collaboration between all ubuntu loco teams, regardless of their particular focus, whether its regional, or vertical
<sabdfl> is there an obvious loco team guidelines page we could amend to that effect?
<highvoltage> that sounds good. could almost be copied and pasted in CoC just as you wrote it there :)
<Seveas> sabdfl, LocoTeamRunning perhaps
<Kamion> urk, hope we don't have to amend the CoC again. :)
* Kamion idly notes that after kiko pestering him enthusiastically for CoC 1.0.1, launchpad still only shows CoC 1.0
<highvoltage> there's https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LoCoTeamHowto and https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LoCoTeams, which might benefit from the ammendment
<Seveas> Kamion, in that case: skip 1.0.1 and jump to 1.1 immediately with these amendments 
<elmo> Kamion: oh, I can fix that
<Kamion> I sent a copy to launchpad@ a while ago if you want to fish it out of there
<lifeless> Kamion: doh. I forgot there was a 1.0.1, I've still only signed 1.0.
<elmo> yeah, I still have it ticked in my launchpad mail folder in case it got lost
<Kamion> lifeless: it's just typographical corrections, don't worry about it
<lifeless> Kamion: ok.
<Kamion> ok, are we done with this agenda point?
<Kamion> if so, let's move on to the Belgian locoteam
<ploum> Hello :-)
<highvoltage> from my side, I'm okay with it. I will ask Andrea to add the edubuntu-loco-it team agenda item to the next CC meeting.
* Kamion is planning to disassemble his laptop this morning and can't do so until we finish the meeting :)
<ploum> (ok belgians, let's go to sing our song !)
<Cassidy> hi :)
<Cassidy> ploum: the one about bear and frites ?
<DecIRC> hi
<Cassidy> beer ;)
<Seveas> hello belgian team
<JanC> hi
<sabdfl> hey guys
* Seveas hands the microphone to ploum 
<ploum> So we are a small country with many differents languages
<ploum> But a big team :-)
<ploum> We have worked on a Ubuntu-be guideline for quite some weeks : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam
<ploum> Then we had a meeting at FOSDEM (with jdub)
<ploum> We want to promote Ubuntu locally, not to create yet another forum-wiki-support website
<ploum> Our first big goal is a very commercial looking website for the Dapper release and a Dapper party where we will invite the community and the press
<ploum> ATM, we have a mailing list with 69 members, and we are speaking a mix of french-dutch-english all the time
<ploum> In fact, we also have the secret goal to show that Belgian people can still do thing together, regardless of their language
<ploum> (this is a big problem in Belgium)
<elmo> (ploum: btw, it's not relevant to this process, but I saw some (less than constructive) criticism of the Dutch in your ubuntu-be announce post - you might want to get a native speaker to look over any future multi-lingual posts?)
<Kamion> (ok, in fact I do need to take my laptop down for disassembly now. I'll still be following along, just a little more slowly
<Kamion> )
<ploum> elmo: ?  I don't remember that
<sabdfl> ok, thanks ploum
<JanC> elmo: you mean on ubunu-announce ?
<sabdfl> anything we can do to help out at this stage?
<ploum> sabdfl: yes
<sabdfl> go ahead
<ploum> In order to work on the website and promotionnal flyer, we want to be sure we can use ubuntu-be.org
<ploum> http://ubuntu.carolinux.be/ : the first draft of the website we are working on (content is mostly in french I think)
<Seveas> quite empty draft ;)
<ploum> Seveas: yes, we have not yet putted the content in the website..
<jsgotangco> heh
<sabdfl> i've no problem with ubuntu-be.org. 
<ploum> and we have to translate all
<DecIRC> Seveas, it is less empty if you choose "Je parle Franais" in place of "I speak English"
<sabdfl> ploum: probably best to be conservative with the number of pages, since everything has to happen three times
<Seveas> you can pull dutch translations from ubuntu-nl.org ;)
<ploum> sabdfl: that's indeed our goal. (and people don't read much more thant 4 pages anyway)
<sabdfl> elmo: what's the process for pointing an ubuntu-xx.org domain at a loco server?
<JanC> I will look at the translations in Dutch  ;-)
<elmo> sabdfl: it's still managed by smurfix
<elmo> well the DNS
<elmo> the loco servers are done by heno
<sabdfl> ok, ploum, ask smurfix to point at your server, and off you go
<elmo> err, kind of
<sabdfl> anything else, or can we get to the members?
<ploum> thanks sabdfl :-)
<DecIRC> dears, I'm the technical responsible for the hosting of this site on my dedicated server. So you can either point the A record to the ip of the server of define it as primary dns
<sabdfl> DecIRC: chat with smurfix
<ploum> sabdfl: thanks for your time. 
<sabdfl> ok, members, members, members!
<Cassidy> thanks for your support guys !
* sabdfl tries to impersonate sballmer. Developers! Developers! nevermind
<dholbach> hahaha :)
<lifeless> throw a chair!
<DecIRC> sabdfl, and others, thanks for ... everything :)
<sabdfl> yer welcome
<sabdfl> lifeless: you're up
<lifeless> hiya
<JanC> lifeless: throwing chairs at people is against the CoC  ;)
<elmo> -2
<lifeless> so, I'd like to become a MOTU
<elmo> oh wait, is it not time to vote for lifeless yet? ;-)
<lifeless> elmo: thanks!
<Simira> haha, isn't lifeless a member yet?
<highvoltage> JanC: unless it's a chaire made out of cake!
<lifeless> I've setup all the wiki pages and documentation the newmembers process requests
<lifeless> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertCollins
<lifeless> and I've been hanging out and helping in #ubuntu-motu from nearly when it started
<ajmitch> & he's been quite helpful there too 
<lifeless> sorry for the lag there, finding my description  to paste
<lifeless> I work for Canonical coordinating the combination of Bazaar-NG and Launchpad (which we hope will provide a fantastic feedback loop to any community using Bazaar-NG), and am a Quality-Czar - I rove between Bazaar-NG, Launchpad and Ubuntu providing input (and Code!), aiming to make it easier to make high quality creations across all our efforts.
<sivang> sabdfl: ah ah ah!
<sabdfl> lifeless: do you think your testing stuff will land in the distro, or be more LP-ish?
<lifeless> sabdfl: I want to do some work on the deb testing project
<sabdfl> ok
<lifeless> I think its very under-potential at the moment
<sabdfl> can you point to some ubuntu-specific contributions you've made over the past year or two?
<sivang> lifeless: referring to automating testing framework by Ian?
<lifeless> sivang: yes
<sabdfl> (fwiw folks, Robert Collins was is the longest-running Canonical dude)
<sabdfl> was is
<sabdfl> nice :-)
<lifeless> sabdfl: sure. more recently - https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/pornview/+bug/2397 
<lifeless> a patch for pornview
<elmo> ...
<sabdfl> can't believe you took that bait :-)
<lifeless> :)
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me
<lifeless> hey, a chance to get porn in the meeting log ?
<dholbach> . o O { based on the pornview patch }
<sivang> heh
<jsgotangco> my hero!
<sabdfl> dholbach: i feel every bug
<dholbach> haha :-)
* dholbach hugs sabdfl
<Kamion> I've got no problem with lifeless obviously, particularly if it gets more people paying attention to autotesting
<sabdfl> ok, 2/3
<Kamion> he's made plenty of contributions on/off over the years
<elmo> well, lifeless was going to be +2 from me, but he loses a point for wasting time on pornview.  so +1
<sabdfl> 4/3 then :-)
<lifeless> thanks guys!
<nictuku> congratulations :-)
<sabdfl> elmo: don't foist your taste for ascii art on us here
<sabdfl> "britney"
<ogra> congrats lifeless :)
<sivang> congrets lifeless !
<sabdfl> nictuku: i think you're up next
<freeflying> lifeless: congrats
<nictuku> thank you.
<nictuku> i'm afraid none of my friends showed up - only MarioMeyer (Meyer) but he seems to be asleep (07:00AM here), but i'll try it anyway ;-).
<nictuku> I'm Yves Junqueira, a 24 years old Python hacker. I live in Braslia, Brazil, and work a sysadmin and python developer in a Federal Government Ministry, although being graduated in International Relations. I've founded #ubuntu-br in circa december/2004 and I code and package some cool software: nwu - Network Wide Updates - and python-sysinfo. Nwu is based on a spec by mvo. Since january/2005 I've been  dedicating many daily hours of free tim
<nictuku> e to the project so we can have a tool similar to RedHat's RHN and Microsoft's SUS, but GPL. I administer a few dozen servers and I know how helpful a software that handles packages installation and upgrades automatically could be. With the help of MarioMeyer, a good friend, I'm also working on packaging nwu and the required python-sysinfo and they are both in revu.  The history of changes is linked in the profile. These have been months of t
<nictuku> ruly hard work and lots of love for Ubuntu :-).Besides wanting to work even harder on nwu - specially making a cool PyGTK interface -, I want to keep helping the Ubuntu-BR LoCoTeam any way I can, either contributing to the planet or helping users on the IRC channel. If I'm honored with the Ubuntu Member status, though, my voice will be lowder I'll be able to spread even more ubuntu love (and installations) to the government agencies, in which
<nictuku>  Ubuntu already has a great market share. Thanks :-)
<sabdfl> wow, that's a great contribution!
<sabdfl> what do you think of the revu process?
<sabdfl> how could we make it better?
<nictuku> thank you. I think it's great already, although maybe if non-motu could also write unofficial reviewes, that would be great.
<sabdfl> we are keen to extend revu to main as well, in dapper+1 timeframe
<nictuku> I really would like to become a MOTU sometime, by the way.
<dholbach> nictuku: that's great to hear.
<nictuku> dholbach, thanks
<dholbach> i see, you're hanging around in #ubuntu-motu already. :-)
<ogra> what will python-sysinfo gain us over hal and its hardware data ? is there added value a later hwdb client ycould use ?
<sivang> sabdfl: for every package or just new packages ?
<nictuku> dholbach, yes, despite in my time zone and the time I have to be on IRC doesn't match with most european members :-(
<sabdfl> ok  +1 for Yves from me, based on sustained work on nwu at https://dev.ubuntubrasil.org/trac/nwu/timeline?daysback=180
<sabdfl> sivang: every package
<sabdfl> to make community contributions to main smoother
<sabdfl> but ore on that another time
<Seveas> sabdfl, cool
<sabdfl> will be, i think :-)
<nictuku> hal wouldn't provide all data we need. It's abstraction for the packaging system, not only for hardware. 
<sivang> sabdfl: nice
<Kamion> +1 on nictuku based on plenty of nwu work etc. and a good thoughtful wiki page
<Seveas> nictuku, there are many ubuntu-br members who already applied for membership. Why did you wait so long? 
<ogra> nictuku, so could hwdb benefit from it ? 
<nictuku> Seveas, I really didn't know if my contributions  was relevant.. I don't do much translation and bug report (low karma on LP, you see..)
<ogra> (it needs more data than hal offers actually, i'd love to have one unique HW info backend :) )
<nictuku> ogra, it's more like the opposite. python-sysinfo is dumb, it's more like a parser.
<ogra> ah
<nictuku> but it does aggregates a lot of information from different sources
<elmo> ack
<sabdfl> ok! welcome aboard
<nictuku> currently it uses lshw to collect hardware info, for example.
<nictuku> :-)
<Seveas> nictuku, congratz! 
<sladen> the karma system could benefit on 'external plugins'  (eg. mailing posts to lists.ubuntu.com, or posts on ubuntoforums.org)
<sabdfl> approved in lp
<nictuku> you guys have no idea how happy I am. Thank you very much!
<sabdfl> sladen: +1
<ogra> ah :) cool 
<ogra> i'll look at it once the package is in :)
<sabdfl> would be very useful to get mailman and forums into the karma infrastructure
<sabdfl> we'll get uploads, reviews etc in due course too
<ogra> nictuku, congrats btw :)
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: trivial to do for mailman, at least.
<Seveas> eyequeue seems to be missing 
<dholbach> congratulations nictuku
<nictuku> even then my karma would still be low, as I'm basically a "upstream coder".
<elmo> yes, but not by integrating into mailman
<sabdfl> eyequeue's not around
<Seveas> imtheface is 
<elmo> you'd do it like ud-echelon, by subscribing to the lists
<Mithrandir> as long as you have a way to guesstimate from poster to launchpad id.
<nictuku> Seveas, ogra, dholbacht hank you  :-)
* imtheface ready?
<Mithrandir> elmo: oh, why?
<elmo> Mithrandir: because I don't want lists.u.c tied to LP
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: email, mostly
<elmo> and more relevantly because there's no need to
<sabdfl> ud-echelon?
<Mithrandir> elmo: well, that's a possibility, too.
<elmo> sabdfl: debian's userdir-ldap has an echelon system that keeps track of "last seen" for Debian developers by subscribing to Debian  lists and matching From line's to DDs and checking signatures
<Mithrandir> elmo: I was thinking generating a state file which lp grabbed daily or something.
<sabdfl> elmo: we do want to make it easy to create a mailing list for an LP team
<sabdfl> ah, right
<nictuku> sabdfl, thank you for being supportive about my small contributions :-)
<sabdfl> nice name :-)
<Seveas> can we move on to imtheface ?
<elmo> sorry, yes, this isn't CC-relevant
<Seveas> ok, imtheface please give us your 3-liner
<imtheface> born as andy apdhani in jakarta, indonesia *and still there*. i'm bachelor in economics, as well as a huge fan of Free Software and also a dreamer! :)
<imtheface> wiki: [ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/imtheface ]  - lp: [ https://launchpad.net/people/imtheface ]  - in ubuntu mostly i contribute on translation, and provide support for local user on indonesian milist and forum.
<imtheface> in future i would like to help on documentation especially by making it avalaible in local language. last is to translate more apps & doc into indonesian.
<imtheface> okay done
<jsgotangco> its nice to see a fellow south east asian active :)
<imtheface> thx u!
<sabdfl> great translation work, andy
<imtheface> savdfl: still a lot more to translate :)
<jsgotangco> have you worked with Belutz?
<jsgotangco> (Andi Darmawan)
<sabdfl> one string at a time, we will shortly add a way to prioritise the different templates in dapper
<imtheface> yes ... mainly we talk in milist
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me for imtheface on the basis of lots of translation suggestions
<imtheface> sabdfl: kewl
<elmo> ack from me too
<sabdfl> Kamion, do you have a keyboard at this point?
<Kamion> yeah, imtheface +1, plenty of translation work and apparently localised documentation too although I can't read it :)
<sabdfl> ok, welcome aboard andy!
<nictuku> imtheface, congrats!!
<imtheface> Kamion: put it on lp then! :)
<imtheface> thx u all
<sabdfl> imtheface: did you request to join ubuntumembers in LP?
<imtheface> sabdfl: no yet!
<sabdfl> could you do that and ping me quickly, please?
<jsgotangco> imtheface: welcome
<imtheface> jsgotangco: thx u again
<sabdfl> we should have an efficient way to mail "all the people waiting to join ubuntumembers"
<sabdfl> note to self
<sabdfl> ok, david symons
<bimberi> hi all - i'll try a single paste...
* bimberi is David Symons - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DavidSymons
<bimberi> I'm an software-engineer/IT-manager from Canberra Australia.  Ubuntu user since November 2004.  I've been helping people regularly on IRC (initially #ubuntu, later #kubuntu and #edubuntu also) since June 2005 averaging a couple of hours per day.
<bimberi> Other contributions: ubotu factoid editing, wikipage editing, laptop testing, testing for developers who've sought volunteers, bug reporting, spurious webpage reporting, active in the Australian LocoTeam and successfully submitting a recipe for the Official Ubuntu Book.
<bimberi> I see availability of local support as important to IT managers considering the Ubuntu alternative - so I'm lobbying the company I contract through to become an Ubuntu Support Provider.  Other plans are to get into bug triage (an area of great need I perceive), participate in Ubuntu marketing/advocacy fora, and continue the above.  Cheers!
<Seveas> \o/ from me for #ubuntu support - not the most active person but smart and doing good contributions
<sabdfl> bimberi: can you comment on the current state of #ubuntu, #kubuntu, #edubuntu?
<bimberi> Seveas: thanks
<Seveas> sabdfl, (on a reated node: bans in several channels are now tracked, see http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/bantracker )
<sabdfl> Seveas: that's excellent - thanks!
<sabdfl> link's busted though
<Seveas> ehrm.. s/bantracker/bans.cgi/
<nictuku> the link in the main page to the ban tracker is borked too
<bimberi> sabdfl: #ubuntu is, of course, so busy - frantic at times.  It works very well IMO.  #kubuntu and #edubuntu are quieter
<ogra> Seveas, oh, a keylogger to get you our LP passwords ? *G*
<Seveas> ogra, lp_auth code can be viewed online
<ogra> yes, #edubuntu gets very specific questions :)
<Seveas> http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/lp_auth.py
<ogra> Seveas, i wasnt serious :)
<Seveas> ogra, I am - I know this question will come up sooner or later 
<bimberi> sabdfl: the op coverage in #ubuntu has improved in recent times with the recent additions
<Seveas> bimberi, do you think it's good enough ?
<bimberi> Seveas: yes i do :)
<sabdfl> bimberi: what's your biggest "wishlist" item for ubuntu?
<bimberi> sabdfl: to see it break though the mind-barriers of IT Managers as a windows replacement
<sabdfl> and any suggestions as to the top things we need to do to make that happen?
<bimberi> sabdfl: marketing to existing IT Service providers to identify the existing FOSS-capable resources in their midst and foster them into a team capable of providing an excellent service
<sabdfl> sounds good, yes
<sabdfl> +1 for bimberi from me, on the back of sustained contributions to support in #ubuntu
<sabdfl> bimberi: have you seen the LP support tracker?
<bimberi> sabdfl: from my point of view ubuntu has made leaps and bounds with addressing little things that annoyed people FOSS - such as copy and paste between apps.  Continuing to do that to do...
<bimberi> sabdfl: no
<dholbach> bimberi: http://launchpad.net/support
<sabdfl> it's in very early stages, but will become the main channel for tracking support requests
<sabdfl> links into the bugtracker where needed etc
<bimberi> Continuing to focus on those little things too stop people dismissing it quickly (as used to occur when I demonstrated other distros)
<sabdfl> fyi
<sabdfl> kamion, elmo?
<Kamion> bimberi +1 for #ubuntu work and Australian team work
<elmo> ack
<bimberi> sabdfl: ah, yes  thankyou :)
<bimberi> thankyou all :-))
<Kamion> bimberi: little things> definitely yeah - there's just so many of them :-)
<bimberi> Kamion: haha - and Launchpad makes it so easy to report them :-)
<sabdfl> ok, updated in LP
<Kamion> ok, any other business?
<bimberi> sabdfl: cheers :)
<Seveas> yes
<sabdfl> when shall we n meet again?
<Seveas> bstqc_ostl, aka victor39 is around today 
<bstqc_ostl> Hello,everyone.I am Victor.My irc name is bstqc_ostl.
<bstqc_ostl> my wiki page is:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Victor39
<Kamion> ah, ok, one more
<bstqc_ostl> I am a software testing engineer in Beijing Software Testing Center.Beijing Software Testing  Center is a professional third-part company .
<bstqc_ostl> I and my colleagues have done an all-sided testing on ubuntu-5.04 and dapper flight2.Our  testing includes functionality testing,setup testing,compatibility testing and performance  testing.I filed all the bug fond into bugzilla and malone.And I have published our testing  report to community.
<sabdfl> hi victor!
<bstqc_ostl> I have tested for flight2 on dell latitude d600.And I am the contact of dell latitude d600  laptop testing in LaptopTestingTeam.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/DellLatitudeD600 
<bstqc_ostl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/
<bstqc_ostl> hi,sabdfl
<bstqc_ostl> In January and February,2006,we asist Canonical to visit Beijing as a part of Ubuntu Asia  Business Tour.
<bstqc_ostl> Now we are testing dapper for the release in June.
<bstqc_ostl> Thanks!
<sabdfl> +1 from me for victor on the basis of excellent help on ABT and ongoing testing feedback and support
<elmo> sabdfl: you just +1'ed him 'cos he has a photo of you on his wikipage, didn't you
<Seveas> I've been talking to victor before and \o/ from for his enthousiasm 
<jsgotangco> haha
<bstqc_ostl> thank you,sabdfl. 
<sabdfl> elmo: you got it in one
* Kamion needs to actually start looking over those testing reports
<sabdfl> elmo: this of course is one advantage from not running away when people point cameras at one
<dholbach> yeah, I was amazed by the work he did and he and I will sit together for integrating the OSTL test plans in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing
<Kamion> it will get easier once they're distilled into bug reports in malone
<jsgotangco> yeah the last test was with a dapper milestone though that i got to host
<dholbach> Kamion: the last bunch of defect reports were filed into malone/bugzilla
<Kamion> I've got no problem with Victor though, sustained lab testing is excellent and sorely needed
<Kamion> dholbach: ah, good
<elmo> yeah, ack from me too
<Seveas> bstqc_ostl, congratz !
<sabdfl> kamion, that a +1?
<Kamion> sabdfl: yes
<bstqc_ostl> thanks, dholbach.thanks,all!
<sabdfl> ok, welcome aboart victor
<freeflying> bstqc_ostl: congrats
* Sergi0 wondering what is going on here
<bstqc_ostl> sabdfl:cheers!
<dholbach> that's excellent news, bstqc_ostl :-)
<sabdfl> very welcome indeed
<sabdfl> ok, when do we want to meet again?
<bstqc_ostl> dholbach: :)
<bstqc_ostl> can I get a mail address named bstqc_ostl@ubuntu.com?Because we are a team  working for ubuntu.Besides me,there are other members in our open source testing lab.I am  only a representative.
<nictuku> congrats bstqc_ostl :-)
<Seveas> sabdfl, in 2 weeks, preferably on a different time
<sabdfl> april 17 is easter monday
<Seveas> (I'm actually giving a class now)
<bstqc_ostl> ths,nicuku!
<sabdfl> bstqc_ostl: i think you automatically get your LP preferred email  @ubuntu.com
<sabdfl> for some value of automatic, after elmo reviews it
<ogra> why is the CC meeting on a monday anyway ? 
<Simira> I knew something was wrong! It's monday today
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Seveas> ogra, to fit some peoples schedule
<ogra> i thought that was an exception
<Simira> sabdfl: who not the 18th?
<jsgotangco> i blinked twice when i saw activity
<bstqc_ostl> sabdfl:I see.
<sabdfl> i'm on the road to Rhodes tomorrow
<Seveas> proposal: april 18, 22:00 UTC?
<sabdfl> i could do the 18th
<Kamion> I'm on holiday on the 18th
<sabdfl> would prefer a little earlier, since DST kicked in
<ogra> ++
<ogra> 20:00 UTC ?
<sabdfl> 21:00 is 22:00 local in the UK
<Seveas> +1 on 21:00
<sabdfl> elmo? mako should be able to make either
* Kamion won't make it; if both elmo and mako can though, and you don't mind me excusing myself, no objection
<sabdfl> Kamion: np, enjoy the holiday
<elmo> I can make that
<sabdfl> ok, 21:00 UTC it is
<Kamion> it's my stepson's birthday, I missed it last year due to UDU so I'm not missing it this year ;-)
<Seveas> ok, see you all in 2 weeks!
<jsgotangco> nice meeting
<Seveas> I'll poke robitaille to put the meeting on the fridge 
<sabdfl> updated the agenda
<sabdfl> ok, thanks everybody
<sabdfl> sorry for waking you up elmo!
<nictuku> any problem if I rename my LP profile id now?
<sabdfl> nictuku: not unless it clashes
<nictuku> ok
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 12 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu
<eyequeue> ?
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-09
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: don't you like us in #edubuntu anymore? :)
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> < -- new installation
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-02
<Knightlust> done
<Knightlust> how bout the others
<Knightlust> going to get back to my work... thanks all, i had a great time
<adamant1988> Ok, I'll propose it to the list and try to get a spec going
<adamant1988> good bye
<BFTD> http://www.google.com/tisp/install.html
<hjmf> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 02 Apr 15:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<hjmf> @schedule Madrid
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Madrid: 02 Apr 17:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 13:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 17:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 20:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jsgotangco> @schedule Manila
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 02 Apr 23:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 19:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 23:00: Kernel Team | 04 Apr 02:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 06 Apr 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<freepenguin> hello
<blackskad> @schedule Brussels
<blackskad> @schedule
<xiris> @schedule London
<freepenguin> hello
<freepenguin> QUESTION: why make some different distro's name (ubuntu,kubuntu,xubuntu,edubuntu) when we can have only Ubuntu with kde, gnome or xfce and some editions like Ubuntu edu edition ?
<jsgotangco> freepenguin: because if that's the case we'll have ubuntu in 4 CDs instead of 1
<Riddell> freepenguin: community question time is in 1 hour 20 minutes
<jsgotangco> oopss
<jsgotangco> :)
<freepenguin> yes..but Ubuntu and Kubuntu are the same distro only change the desktop environment
<freepenguin> they should call them Ubuntu with gnome and Ubuntu with KDE...the system is the same
<dennda> the simple reason is: "Ubuntu with GNOME" and "Ubuntu with KDE" take much longer to type than Ubuntu or Kubuntu.
<dennda> ;)
<freepenguin> Riddell, oh yes? where are you from? in italy it's 15.46
<jsgotangco> freepenguin: see topic
<poningru> @schedule New York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 02 Apr 11:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 07:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 11:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 14:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<poningru> so another hour
<d1uluv2h8> @schedule Bucharest
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Bucharest: 02 Apr 18:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 14:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 18:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 21:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<f0ster52> hello everybody
<f0ster52> @schedule Italy
<f0ster52> @schedule Rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 02 Apr 17:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 13:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 17:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 20:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<f0ster52> ...i'm learning...
<xiris> @schedule London
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 02 Apr 16:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 12:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 16:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 19:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 13:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jono> hi all
<dennda> hi
<jono> anyone here for the community question time?
<Treenaks> jono: The Community Question.. that's a new item on lugradio :P
<Treenaks> ?
<jono> heh
<f0ster52> re
<jono> ok, anyone else?
<mc44> is this where we berate jono for his silly blog posts?
<jono> this may be a quiet session :)
<mc44> :p
<jono> mc44: heh
<jono> ok, as usual, questions in #ubuntu-meeting-questions
<jono> and prefix them with QUESTION
<jono> then I will answer each one in turn
<Riddell> jono: according to the topic and fridge it's not due for another hour
<jono> actually, this seems fairly quiet, so you can ask them here if needed
<ogra> QUESTIO: why do you start already ?
<jono> oh damn
<f0ster52> lol
<jono> of course, UTC has changed
<ogra> *g*
<Treenaks> ogra: WINS
<jono> ok cool, lets wait :)
<f0ster52> *boerd
<gnomefreak> another 45 minutes no?
<d1uluv2h8> yap :)
<ogra> yes
<gnomefreak> cool
<f0ster52> heh
<f0ster52> how many ppl here cause of questions time?
<f0ster52> uhm, it's going to be crowded heh
* Hobbsee wonders what sort of questions there are
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: questions that conform to the CoC ;)
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: well, duh :P
<d1uluv2h8> i am here for question time :)
<topyli> d1uluv2h8: hang around for another half hour :)
<d1uluv2h8> i will, there's no rush
<elkbuntu> ok, 15 mins until the question time... those who want to ask questions should go to #ubuntu-meeting-questions as that is where questions will be taken from
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Community Question Time | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Apr 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<jono> right
<jono> who is here for the community question time?
<d1uluv2h8> i am :)
<f0ster52> _|
<boredandblogging> me, but I have no questions, just listening
<jono> ok, ask your questions in #ubuntu-meeting-questions and prefix it with QUESTION so I can see it :)
<jono> lets get going! :)
<Belutz> i am
<marchesantacater> ciao a tutti da marchesantacaterina
<marchesantacater> ciao
<marchesantacater> ciao
<marchesantacater> cerco linux
<marchesantacater> chi  che me lo puo sendare??
<jono> <f0ster52> QUESTION: will you ever forgive my english? :/, ok, now the real one: Talking about the last Dell declarations on Linux preinstalled on consumer machines. What is/will Ubuntu doing/do to become the chosen distro (if will ever be one)? Other comments? Any thoughts?
<jono> f0ster52: course I will forgive your english :)
<marchesantacater> ok
<jono> f0ster52: this is not something I can really give too much info on as I don't work on it, but we are hoping Ubuntu will be involved in Dell's choices
<jono> I can't say anymore than that really
<jono> thats a business team thing
<jono> <poningru> QUESTION: Any ideas what the name of feisty+1 is going to be?
<jono> poningru: no idea, we will have to see - I am sure we all have our own fave ideas :)
<jono> <Belutz> QUESTION: will the approved LoCo team will be eligible for one box of Feisty CD's like we did on Edgy?
<jono> Belutz: yes :)
<jono> <ivoks> QUESTION: do we know for sure when next LTS is going to happen? :)
<Belutz> jono, that's good news :D
<jono> ivoks: nothing is confirmed right now, but an estimation of Feisty + 2 is kicking around
<jono> ivoks: but we hope to have something confirmed soon
<jono> <d1uluv2h8> QUESTION: will the easy codec installation and that nice proprietary video driver installation utility go into kubuntu too?
<jono> d1uluv2h8: as far as I am aware, the easy codec installation is something that could go into kubuntu - it would just need the GUI writing for it - it happens at a gstreamer level
<jono> <Belutz> QUESTION: When the LoCo team can begin to order Feisty CD's?
<jono> Belutz: you would need to contact shipit for a specific answer, but I guess after Feisty is released
<jono> any other questions?
<jono> <poningru> QUESTION: will lp.net be opened soonish?
<jono>  launchpad.net
<jono> poningru: you mean when will lp be open source?
<poningru> right
<ivoks> never
<ivoks> it's a service, it can't be open sourced
<poningru> ...
<mc44> sabdfl commented on a comment in his blog about it
<poningru> oh? /me reads
<jono> poningru: right now there is no set date, but LP will certainly be open source at some point, unfortunatly there is no indication of the metric behind that right now
<ivoks> open sourcing LP would destroy nature of LP
<jono> <Belutz> QUESTION: my ubuntu membership is about to expired, what should I do to extend my membership?
<jono> Belutz: re-apply :)
<Belutz> wew
<Belutz> and there's a chance that i won't get an extended membership?
<jono> afaik...
<jono> you may want to check with the CC
<jono> Belutz: I think its likely you will
<Belutz> jono, ok :)
<elkbuntu> i think they were discussing some form of rollcall procedure
<jono> unless you really didny do anything useful :)
<elkbuntu> just to check that you still exist and still care
<jono> other questions?
<Belutz> ic ic, that's a good procedure
<Hobbsee> jono: can i correct you?
<jono> Hobbsee: sure
<Hobbsee> [01:05]  <jono> d1uluv2h8: as far as I am aware, the easy codec installation is something that could go into kubuntu - it would just need the GUI writing for it - it happens at a gstreamer level  <-- kubuntu tends to use xine-based stuff, not gstreamer, so it's not a straight port.
<jono> Hobbsee: right, thanks for the clarification :)
<Hobbsee> that was all :)
<d1uluv2h8> hm.. what about proprietary driver installation ?
<jono> <mc44> ZOMG QUESTION!!!11!: Will feisty+1 be named G* G*, I* I* or something else entirely?
<ivoks> not going to happen for feisty
<jono> mc44: I think its going to be a G* G*
<jono> although we do have grump
<jono> grumpy
<mc44> indeed
<poningru> right
<poningru> jono: ignore my question
<bordy> or glorious gator ;)
<jono> any other questions?
<poningru> bordy: ;)
<Hobbsee> jono: QUESTION:  who's the coolest person at canonical?
<jono> <Belutz> QUESTION: is there a chance that you travel around the world to visit every LoCo Teams?
<Hobbsee> oops, wrong channel
* ogra poses
* poningru lulz
<jono> Belutz: I would love to, but with a loco in nearly every country, it is difficult, but I am trying to get out to as many teams as possible
<jono> Belutz: if you want me there, mail me :)
* Belutz wish ogra can come to Indonesia to support edubuntu :D
<ivoks> Hobbsee: chris is very cool :)
<Belutz> jono, ok :)
<jono> ok
<jono> so it seems we are about done
<ogra> Belutz, surely at some point ... the whole of asia is still missing on my travelling list :)
<elkbuntu> Belutz, concoct an event and get jono to speak at it. you'll need essential items like beer and wigs
<jono> not many more quetions
<jono> heh
<poningru> wig?
<Belutz> wigs?
<Belutz> jono, what beer do you drink? :D
<jono> Belutz: depends which country - Carling in the UK :)
<Hobbsee> Belutz: he drinks all of them.  in sequence :P
<jono> heh
<Hobbsee> until all the beer runs out
<Belutz> lol
<elkbuntu> poningru, http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=906
<jono> Hobbsee: are you trying to incinuate I drink too much? :)
<Hobbsee> jono: no, no, not at all...  *g*
<jono> elkbuntu: heh
<Belutz> if we invite you, do we have to cover all the expenses?
<jono> Hobbsee: :)
<Belutz> :D
<mc44> jono: Carling? /me sighs
<jono> Belutz: where are you based?
<jono> mc44: yeah yeah, but I like it :)
<Belutz> jono, Indonesia, South East Asia
<jono> Belutz: if you could get sponsorship to cover some expenses that would be useful, but Canonical would no doubt pick up some of the tab
<Belutz> Actually i have met with the mighty sabdfl :D
<Belutz> jono, noted :)
<jono> <lotusleaf> QUESTION: Has any (known) musician ever been contacted to see if they would like to include samples of their work towards sound effects / jingles for Ubuntu?
<jono> lotusleaf: I think we have talked with some musos - but nothing concrete has happened
<jono> <lotusleaf> QUESTION: Can we expect any future events with Ubuntu/Google in California?
<jono> we love Google, so very possibly :)
<elkbuntu> yeah google does rock
<poningru> >:(
<jono> <Belutz> QUESTION: What if Ubuntu collaborate with Google Singapore to conduct events across South East Asia? :)
<jono> Belutz: who knows? we (Canonical) like to form partnerships to help spread Ubuntu :)
<Belutz> wew
<jono> ok
<jono> so, I think we are done
<jono> thanks all
<Belutz> I feel like my ubuntu spirit is charged :D
<Belutz> thanks jono
<f0ster52> thanks to you
<jono> I will schedule the next community question time for the start of may :)
<jono> right later all! :)
<poningru> adios
<d1uluv2h8> hm.. where's the rush ? :)
<poningru> that way ----->
<elkbuntu> he's a busy man
<d1uluv2h8> hehe, i see
<urban1> So, the meeting will no happen?
<urban1> not happen?
<d1uluv2h8> well.. it already happened :P
<d1uluv2h8> check the logs :)
<urban1> I loose it
<urban1> Can you tell me, where can I see the logs?
<elkbuntu> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<urban1> Thanks a lot! (Y)
<poningru> @schedule New York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: Current meeting: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 07:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 11:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 14:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: Current meeting: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 13:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 17:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 20:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<darkrho> @schedule La Paz
<ubotu> Schedule for America/La_Paz: Current meeting: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 07:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 11:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 14:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<stgraber> !logs | verb3k
<ubotu> verb3k: Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<verb3k> ok
<somerville32> Where is Jono?
<poningru> somerville32: sorry dude too late
<poningru> !toolate | somerville32
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about toolate - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<poningru> !logs | somerville32
<ubotu> somerville32: Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<somerville32> The fridge is such a liar :(
<poningru> we should go beat it up
<somerville32> Indeed.
<poningru> tommorrow at 4 before he gets out of the playground?
<somerville32> For sure.
<poningru> bring your brass knuckles
<somerville32> Of course.
* poningru lulz
<lotusleaf> @schedule California
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Apr 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 03 Apr 06:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 10:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 13:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 15:00: Technical Board
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> doh
<Seveas> nixternal, found the loose screw in your head? ;)
<nixternal> nope
<nixternal> actually, ...no I will leave that one alone ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-03
<jsgotangco> @schedule Manila
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 03 Apr 19:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 23:00: Kernel Team | 04 Apr 02:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 06 Apr 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Apr 04:00: Technical Board
* peperoni is away: Estoy ocupado
* peperoni is away: Ya vengo
* peperoni is away: Voy a dormir un rato
<Mithrandir> peperoni: please turn off public away.
<jsgotangco> peperoni: plesae turn it off
<SWAT> @schedule amsterdam
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 03 Apr 13:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 17:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 20:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 22:00: Technical Board
<Seveas> @schedule amsterdam
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 03 Apr 13:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 17:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 20:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 22:00: Technical Board
<Seveas> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 20:00: Technical Board
<AndrewB> @schedule London
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 03 Apr 12:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 16:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 19:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 13:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 21:00: Technical Board
<iGama> Hy
<loudmouthman> @schedule London
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 03 Apr 12:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 16:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 19:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 13:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 21:00: Technical Board
<xerxas> Hi all
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 03 Apr 21:00: Community Council | 04 Apr 01:00: Kernel Team | 04 Apr 04:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Apr 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Apr 06:00: Technical Board
<xerxas> @schedule paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 03 Apr 13:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 17:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 20:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 22:00: Technical Board
<iGama> Hy
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<war_> hello
<AndrewB> Hey all.
<Hobbsee> hi elmo
<elmo> hi
<iGama> xerxas,
<iGama> good luck :)
<lotusleaf> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 03 2007, 10:59:21 - Current meeting: Community Council
<cjwatson> morning
<xerxas> iGama:  thanks :)
<iGama> im also a candidate
<xerxas> the thing is I'm supposed to go eat :)
<iGama> :)
<iGama> lol
<xerxas> iGama: good luck to you then :)
<AndrewB> hey LoudMouthMan
<LoudMouthMan> Hello
<iGama> im hungry also :S
* cjwatson idly notes that https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers/+polls is still empty
<xerxas> cjwatson: so vote for us :)
<elmo> I've SMSed sabdfl
<Seveas> cjwatson, I heard rumours of LP voting not being able to do what sabdfl wants
<AlexC> AndrewB is so helpful
<xerxas> can I go eat ?
<xerxas> can you guys discuss your status before me ?
<Seveas> xerxas, sure
<xerxas> ok
<xerxas> I'll be back in half an hour probably
<xerxas> thanks
<Seveas> xerxas, please poke me in pm when you're back
<SWAT> xerxas, enjoy your food ;)
<xerxas> seves: np
<iGama> xerxas, get me some :p
<xerxas> swat thanks :)
<xerxas> iGama:  np :)
<iGama> a cookie is ok for me :)
<biberao> hiya
<AndrewB> hey biberao
<iGama> Good luck to all Ubuntu Member Candidates :)
<iGama> And locoteams :)
<jsgotangco> good luck! we'll just have to wait for the key people to arrive
<elmo> sabdfl sends his apologies, but he has no intarweb so he can't make it
<Seveas> elmo, and mako? He said this time was OK for him
<Hobbsee> bah.  surely he can find some other medium which will let him attend.
<Seveas> Hobbsee, ip-over-brainwaves is not implemented yet :)
<Hobbsee> Seveas: THEN GET CODING.  kthnksbye!
<SWAT> I thought the new Nokia N800 or something had a terminal + ssh built in (irrsi + screen on a server somewhere)
<Seveas> Hobbsee, specs for brainwaves are proprietary :p
<Hobbsee> Seveas: reverse engineer them then.
<spyro_boy> hah
<YokoZar> Hobbsee: How about communing via smoke signals?
<Hobbsee> YokoZar: if you like...go ahead
<jsgotangco> SWAT: last time I saw sabdfl, he was still using a Treo650
<elmo> sorry phone, bbias
<jsgotangco> :)
<iGama> i have to meet sabdfl one day :)
<AlexC> so very helpful
<Seveas> iGama, sevilla, espaa, 5-11 may. Good opportunity :)
<SWAT> iGama, it's on my big 'todo' list
<iGama> not good time for me :s
<iGama> Seveas, im going to start organizing a Linux Conference in Portugal
<elmo> Seveas: I haven't heard from him sorry - I can ring him, if you like
<iGama> and maybe invite the Ubuntu Community
<Seveas> elmo, please do so, otherwise we have no quorum
<SWAT> jsgotangco, still no terminal+ssh for that thing yet? (looks nice though)
<iGama> licio,  *
<iGama> :)
<Karirresmo> hello
<iGama> tudo bem licio  ?
<elmo> mako's on his way
<Seveas> great
<Constantino> iGama: [] 
<iGama> [] 
<Karirresmo> iGama fofa *
<Kmos> iGama: good luck
<SWAT> elmo, do you have an eta? (so I know if I can leave my desk without missing anything)
<Kmos> +1 for you :)
<iGama> ;)
<iGama> thanks ppl , but still have to wait :)
<MikeB-> question before the meeting, what is the best way to request a change in launchpad?
<Seveas> MikeB-, file a bug
<AndrewB> I would assume the best way is file a bug or #launchpad
<MikeB-> I was wondering if forums usernames could be added to peoples Launchpad profiles
<MikeB-> Seveas: cool did that:)
<Seveas> mako! :)
<jsgotangco> cheers mako
<mako> apologies for being late, i left my phone vibrate and missed my alarm
<mako> elmo: thanks for the call
<Seveas> elmo, cjwatson: prod, we can start
<SWAT> mako, you're now, that's what counts :)
<Seveas> mjg59, ping, you're first on the agenda
<mjg59> Hi
<mjg59> Ok. Want me to do a brief introduction?
<Seveas> I'm wondering why you wanted to write this up *now*, has there been a particular incident?
<biberao> back
<mjg59> Seveas: There has, but I don't think the specifics of a particular incident are especially relevant right now
<Seveas> ok
<mjg59> In the absence of good guidelines, it's harder to judge people's behaviour
<mjg59> Effectively, the problem that I think needs dealing with is that it's entirely unclear what should happen if somebody believes that the CoC has been violated
<mako> mjg59: so i've appreciated your recent writing on coc related issues
<mjg59> So if a complaint is made, there's the potential for argument over whether or not it was a violation to take place in the same forum as the original complaint
<mako> and i think that a policy for what should happen would be a good idea
<mjg59> Which can then give the impression that the complaint isn't taken seriously, and could exacerbate any original offence
<cjwatson> various people made comments on your wiki page; I liked the note explicitly saying that discussions of CoC violations shouldn't happen in the same forum
<Seveas> should these happen in public at all?
<cjwatson> they do tend to escalate rather
<mako> Seveas: ideally, i think so
<cjwatson> there needs to be opportunity for right-of-reply and feedback
<cjwatson> but blogwars or whatever don't really help
<mjg59> From my point of view, the risk of making the original complaint via some back-channel is that there's no awareness amongst other members of the list/forum/channel/whatever that there's an issue until it's already been dealt with
<mako> mjg59: so my major thought, which isn't really a reply on its own, was that that i was curious about how the forums folks handle this
<mako> mjg59: and i have a rough idea of how it happens
<cjwatson> mjg59: complaint via back-channel plus note on list saying that it's been escalated
<mako> because they have this problem probably several times a ewek
<MikeB-> we have an infraction system
<jsgotangco> part of the forum engine of sorts?
<dinda> but mailing list and Loco Teams and IRC don't have any back channels as of yet
<MikeB-> if a violation of the CoC or forums CoC happen we issue an infraction and send a PM
<mc44> mako, as does irc
<mjg59> I certainly agree that any further conversation of the issue shouldn't take place in the same forum, but I'm less sold on the idea that the initial complaint shouldn't be
<mako> mjg59: i think i agree
<Seveas> (mc44, the irc complaint/escalation system is not quite finalized/written down yet, pending discussions at UDS Seville)
<MikeB-> we give the person a chance to explain.
<mjg59> I think it ought to be possible for someone to express unhappiness and the original poster to apologise without actually invoking any sort of formal procedure
<mako> mjg59: i think that public discussion about the cc and sugestoins that certain behavior might be unacceptable help communicate social norms to the larger community
<mako> coc even
<mjg59> Right, that was my point of view
<cjwatson> mjg59: mm
<cjwatson> also reducing the need for escalation is a good thing
<MikeB-> an infraction system of sorts could be added to launchpad, everyone should be allowed one  bad judgement call, it is the repeat offenders yo need to worry about. someway to track them would help
<cjwatson> I don't think we can assume that people on the mailing lists or IRC have launchpad accounts
<cjwatson> or even should assume
<Seveas> we should not
<cjwatson> I think we probably have enough social memory for this kind of thing though - there's less volume here than on the forums
<MikeB-> cjwatson: good point
<mjg59> My aim with the draft I wrote was to produce a process that's fairly light-weight but achieves three goals: (1) it's possible to short-circuit the entire thing by allowing the original poster to apologise, (2) ensuring that further discussion of the issue doesn't occur where it's likely to cause further offence and (3) ensures that contentious issues can still be handled by an uninvolved set of people (ie, the CC)
<cjwatson> I agree that people should be allowed mistake(s) before being banned, though not before being reprimanded
<cjwatson> mjg59: I think folding in the comments on that draft to make things generally more explicit would be good, but I like the general idea
<mjg59> Ok. There seems to be general approval for something like this - what's the best way to go from here?
<mako> so.. my only concern is with calling it enforcement
<Daviey> I whole heatedly disagree with the principle of people being reprimanded, that IMHO is not the intention of either the CoC or Ubuntu itself.  It's a _want_ to adhere - not forced to
<cjwatson> mako: mjg59's draft doesn't
<mako> because we're going to have to make the same judgement call to "enforce" this as we will to "enforce" the cc
<mako> but as a guideline, i think it' sgood
<mako> cjwatson: yes, that' sgood
<cjwatson> Daviey: sadly, unless there's some way to tell people they were wrong, the CoC will deteriorate into meaninglessness
<mjg59> Daviey: If people don't want to adhere to the CoC, then they're not welcome in the Ubuntu community
<cjwatson> Daviey: and people who feel aggrieved by others not adhering to it want to know that their concerns are valid
<mako> Daviey: the *only* thing we require of all members or ubunteros is that they aggree to to the CoC
<Daviey> mjg59, i don't know where that conclusion has been made.  The CoC is something for people to thing hard about, and sign if the wish.  (I have).
<cjwatson> Daviey: it was right at the foundation of Ubuntu
<mako> Daviey: it was one of the first two or three documents we wrote for the website
<mjg59> Daviey: The aim of the CoC was to ensure that there was a common base-line of accepted behaviour for the entire community
<cjwatson> the CoC is not some kind of optional extension
<dinda> My comments were added b/c some folks who originate the issue, i.e. invoke the COC, then walk away but then the issue escalates in their absence, so there needs to be responsibility on both sides
<cjwatson> "you can behave nicely ... if you want"
<SWAT> the coc is like a contract only less legal (there is a reason why you must sign it with your own private gpg key). Why shouldn't someone be held responsible for their actions? You can ofcourse first PM the person in question to tell them to cool off and if that doesn't works, complain.
<Daviey> I am a big pro of the principle of the CoC - it's something that people make a commitment that they want to follow.  It is not rules.  Unless i have grossly misunderstood
<mc44> Daviey, even if you havent signed it, if you want to participate in ubuntu community forums such as mailing lists, you are expected to abide by it
<mako> Daviey: i suppose you don't have to agree to it, but if you act in a way that users, and leadership through consulation, feels runs rounter to the CoC, you'll be asked to leave
<mako> Daviey: it's not meant to be a stick, if that's what you mean.. and they're inentionally a little vague
<Daviey> (not that it matters, but i have signed it)
<LoudMouthMan> But was its purpose to enable people to set guidelines of expectations on others or themselves ?  Im worried that enabling it to be used to judge others is less Ubuntu then enabling it to judge yourself.
<mako> Daviey: but they are guidelines and a set of common ground
<cjwatson> LoudMouthMan: it's so that people understand the common community expectations
<mako> mjg59: so i like your little enumerated list here
<cjwatson> they were written to ensure that expectations of general decent behaviour were set right from the start
<LoudMouthMan> yes I understood that , i took days to consider what it meant before i signed it i also blogged about it.
<mako> mjg59: i think it was pretty concise. and i think we should add this to a new version of the CoC
<LoudMouthMan> are we discussing the alternative process list ?
<cjwatson> LoudMouthMan: it's not meant for people to wave at each other all the time, no, but when people genuinely aren't being decent to each other then it's appropriate to do something about it
<mako> mgj59: after a broader consulatation with the community i guess.. we need to be careful changing something that most community members have already agreed to
<cjwatson> mako: I would just put it somewhere on /community on the web site and have an informative reference in the CoC
<cjwatson> I don't think it needs to be in the normative document
<LoudMouthMan> I think the process amendment to me fits better into guideliness for leasership and responsibility.
<cjwatson> LoudMouthMan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeOfConductDisputeResolution - it's not about leadership
<LoudMouthMan> and we do need a greivance procedure somewhere.
<cjwatson> this is such a proposed grievance procedure
<LoudMouthMan> I know i read it . and Iunderstand it . but people goto authority and as such leadership . they rarely resolve it between themselves.
<mako> cjwatson: ok, i don't feel too strongly either way
<mjg59> LoudMouthMan: As I said, I don't like a couple of aspects of the alternate procedure suggestion - firstly that it provides no mechanism for an informal procedure, and secondly the fact that it immediately places both parties on moderation
<cjwatson> LoudMouthMan: I'd much rather people were encouraged to at least try to resolve things between themselves at first. Going to authority all the time gets dysfunctional
<mjg59> Sorry, that should have been "informal resolution" not "informal procedure"
<LoudMouthMan> agreed people should resolve things together.
<mako> who wrote the alternative procedure?
<cjwatson> Mark Harrison
<LoudMouthMan> Mark Harrison .
<mako> yes, i see that
<mako> is mark here?
<LoudMouthMan> no , not that i can see.
<mjg59> The CoC isn't a stick to beat people with, but at the same time failing to ensure that people view it as the standard for acceptable behaviour gives the impression that our community is less welcoming
* mako nods
<mako> yes, by bypassing information method sof resolution, it gives up the mechanism by which 90% of prevoius coc "issues" have been resolved
<mjg59> And it needs to be easy for people to express that they feel a specific action is against the CoC without feeling that by doing so they're tying themselves into a long and drawn out formal procedure
<mako> i think with great effect in the larger community
<cjwatson> mako: s/information/informal/?
<mjg59> I'll admit that a malicious person could use something like the suggested process to stifle discussion, but I'd also be surprised if anyone tried to
<war_> I am sorry to interfere, but why don't you just adopt a standard legal mediation procedure.
<war_> The two parties assign a referee of their choice and these referees elect a third person to complete the judgement team. The team listens to both sides and takes a final judgement. Both quarreling parties accept the findings.
<mako> cjwatson: yes
* LoudMouthMan wouldnt be the more we set fences the more we can find for people to sit on them.
<mako> mjg59: someone probably will try to at some point
<mjg59> mako: Hm. Perhaps I have too much faith in people.
<mako> mjg59: well, we're a big community :)
<mako> but it won't happen often and that doesn't mean we don't come out on top with the policy anyway
<mjg59> Abuse of the CoC weakens it, so it should be seen as equally unacceptable within the community
<cjwatson> war_: the main difference I see there is that it allows things to be delegated below the community council, which is probably a good thing. I'm not sure that referee nomination would be practical in our environment though
<mako> mjg59: yes, that's right
<cjwatson> maybe amend mjg59's draft to say "the community council or another appropriate body"?
<cjwatson> mjg59: ^--
<mjg59> So how about I tidy up the proposal a bit, incorporate the suggestions that have been made and then run it past the CC mailing list?
<Seveas> sounds like a plan
<cjwatson> yep
<mjg59> Ok. I'll do that, then.
<mjg59> Thanks!
<mako> mjg59: i'll work on it a little bit
<Seveas> ok, so we can move on in the agenda?
<mjg59> Yes, I think I'm done
<Seveas> ok, war_ you're up (AustrianTeam)
<Seveas> please introduce the team to us :)
<war_> cjwatson: This procedure works well in a number of legal systems all over the world. It works crossing boundaries, language barriers and even technological barriers (and even over time).
<war_> I followed the discussion and I see all the arguments I have heard otherwise.
<war_> All the parties have to agree apon is a referee of their choice. The rest is settled by their trusted representatives.
<cjwatson> war_: perhaps you could comment on the wiki page above, then
<MikeB-> war_: a mediator  could be required in some cases, but we should let the community work out the problem and hopefully be adults:)
<war_> cjwatson: I will put my thoughts on the wiki
* mako nods
<war_> Seveas: Thanks for the opportunity to represent Austria Team
<war_> I'm not that fast as most of yo
<war_> Marion and myself represent the Austria Ubuntu Community
<war_> Initially founded by Marion the team has formed in mid 2006
<war_> I joined later
<war_> Austria is geographically centered around Vienna (capital)
<war_> There are 1/4 of the population in this area
<war_> We have a small but active community here
<war_> We operate a web portal, meet every other week and maintain strong communication in our web forum
<war_> There are strong connections to official agencies interested in Open Source
<war_> As we have reached a critical mass in Vienna, we decided to apply for official recognition as a LoCo Team
* Seveas brb
<AndrewB> war_: the fora certinally looks active.
<war_> thanks
<jsgotangco> what's the url of the web portal?
<AndrewB> http://www.ubuntu-austria.at/
<war_> we have 275 registered members
<war_> http://www.ubuntu-austria.at
<mako> wow, that looks great
<war_> One thing I forgot, we offer regular training sessions to kick start people into using Ubuntu
<mako> what do those look like?
<war_> (well, Marion does, shes the one to take credit)
<war_> mako: The seminars? We have a photo session on the board
<war_> 5 - 10 people, bring their computers or work on presentation machines
<jsgotangco> the portal is awesome
<war_> set up ubuntu, start some apps, see how easy it is
<war_> hoefully switch
<iGama> war_, nice
<war_> Again: Credit to Marion, she is the one
<war_> I just type (and slowly as I see)
<mako> war_: how long have you been involved?
<war_> mako: Involved into what?
<war_> IT: 35 years
<AndrewB> http://www.ubuntu-austria.at/album_pic.php?pic_id=31  Doesn't look like things are going too well ;)
<war_> Windows: > 10
<war_> Ubuntu: 6 months
<marion> hello, I am also here, but write very slowly in english
<war_> Thats excitement: ;-)
<war_> After a c:> format c:
<AndrewB> heh
<iGama> Susana,  *
<mako> war_: i meant ubuntu
<marion> I get very animated when i explain people about ubuntu :)
<mako> marion: me too :)
<war_> mako: I had a bit of Unix knowhow previously but basically I am an MS guy
<war_> I tried Ubuntu in summer 2006. Got interested
<war_> led me to switch end of 2006
<jsgotangco> ubuntu and a pack of smokes that's all you need to be productive indeed
<war_> I dont smoke
<war_> I dont drink
<marion> i do!
<iGama> LoL
* jsgotangco saw the pack on the pic
<mako> well i think the work here is great
<mako> i'm happy welcome your team to the fold
<mako> please keep up the great work
<war_> Thanks and thanks for the warm welcome
<AndrewB> :)
<marion> thanks for the praise, we#ll definitely keep up the good work and are very excited!
<elmo> +1 from me too
<Seveas> cjwatson, ?
<mako> is someone from ni here?
<leogg> mako: over here
<peperoni> yes we are!
<mako> we're running late, please go ahead
<Angeltronix> me too!
<leogg> Greetings, and thank you all for allowing us to take a few minutes of your time today. My name is Leandro Gmez and I want to introduce you to the Nicaraguan LoCo Team (aka Ubuntu-ni). Our wiki entry is in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NicaraguanTeam (in Spanish) and our application can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NicaraguanTeam/ApprovalApplication
<mako> i'll need to leave in 45m to get to another meeting
<leogg> The Nicaraguan LoCo Team is commited to promote the use of free and open source software in Nicaragua. Our membership at last count were 42 members, althought not everybody are suscribed to Launchpad or listed in the main wiki. Ubuntu-ni is an active member of the REDSLCAN, a local network of Nicaraguan LUGs and FLOSS advocates, and we attend to meetings and collaborate with the different LUGs on a regular basis.
<Seveas> then let's hurry :)
<cjwatson> Seveas: (no problem from me)
<leogg> What we do in Ubuntu-ni: 1) Advocacy: Ubuntu related seminars across the country, 2) Documentation: translations and compilation of HOWTOs, guides and tutorials in Spanish, 3) Support: we provide community support in our mailing list, IRC channel and on several Nicaraguan tech-boards on the web. 4) Local production and distribution of Ubuntu CDs
<mako> leogg: you produce/distribute cds locally?
<leogg> 5) Installfests, the Nicaraguan LoCo Team is the official organizer of the Latin American InstallFest (FLISOL) in Nicaragua. We are going to have +12 conferences and distribute 300 Ubuntu CDs, the whole event is going to be streamed live on the Internet and covered by local media (TV, radio and newspapers). This particular event has raised a huge amount of interest among the population and one of the major national newspapers has offered 
<leogg> mako: yes
<leogg> 6) Localization, we are working hard on a local distribution of Ubuntu, one of the highlights for future releases is the translation of Ubuntu to Miskito, a language spoken by ~200K people in northeastern Nicaragua and southern Honduras. With this, Ubuntu will become the first OS on that language.
<leogg> 7) We are organizing local user groups in the major universities and in several cities across the country. The idea of the local groups is being close to the end user and make a bigger impact on a local level. One of our local groups in the University of Managua has been officialy recognised by the authorities of the university and valuable resources, such as full access to a computer lab and unrestricted Internet access on campus has bee
<leogg> We also have our Classroom Project that is aimed towards capacity building within our organisation. Our goal is to increase the level of participation and contributions of our members to the community. Another cool project we are going to start next month is the School Mentor Program, where every member of Ubuntu-ni is going to "adopt" an elementary schoool in order to teach Linux there for free.
<Seveas> yay for localization :)
<leogg> Future plans include collaboration and mentoring other teams in the area in order to make Central America an Ubuntu stronghold.
<leogg> And with this I conclude our presentation. If you have any questions I'll be glad to answer them. Thank you.
<elkbuntu> wow.. you guys sound busy
* Seveas is impressed with the activity
<Seveas> good job folks!
<leogg> elkbuntu: yes, wish the day had more than 24 hours
<Seveas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NicaraguanTeam?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=NicaraguaTerritorioUbuntu-small.png is nice
<leogg> Seveas: thanks
<iGama> nice work leogg
<leogg> iGama: thank you, I have a great team
<iGama> thats important :)
<leogg> iGama: yes, our members are very active and passionate about this
<Angeltronix> that's right
<elmo> leogg: your 7th point was cut off at 'on campus has bee'
<mako> yes, the map is cute
<leogg> elmo: One of our local groups in the University of Managua has been officialy recognised by the authorities of the university and valuable resources, such as full access to a computer lab and unrestricted Internet access on campus has been granted for the team.
<leogg> mako: thank you
<leogg> Angeltronix here is the coordinator of the University of Managua
<elmo> leogg: cool, thanks - all looks very impressive
<mako> leogg: so you send out hte cds personally?
<leogg> he has done a great job over there
<Angeltronix> yeah, I'm coordinating the group of The University of Managua
<leogg> mako: yes, we ask everybodu who is interested to donate a blank cd to keep the ball rolling ;)
<mako> the wiki pages looks completely awesome, by the way :)
<peperoni> and i'm from de National University of engineering
<leogg> mako: thank you, the whole collaborated on the wiki
<AndrewB> The wikipage is amazing.
<leogg> AndrewB: thanks
<Angeltronix> well, the design was made by leogg...
<AndrewB> The header graphic accross the top is a very nice addition. Maybe other LoCo groups should follow :D
<Angeltronix> he made a great work!
<leogg> AndrewB: it's a volcano located on an island here, we're are known to be the land of "lakes and volcanoes"
<AndrewB> leogg: sounds slightly dangerous ;)
<leogg> AndrewB: yes, it is indeed... but one gets used to it
<mako> leogg: how many cds have you sent?
<leogg> mako: this year slightly over 100
<mako> leogg: i'm just trying to get a sense of whether this is something you might want to help document for other teams to replicate
<mako> that's cool
<leogg> on flisol we hope to distribute about 300
<leogg> mako: will be happy to do
<mako> are you at all involved with the larger loco community?
<mako> you seem to be doing a few things that most other locos are not, it seemed like a litle documentation and work might be able to spread the ieas to others
<leogg> mako: we have been communicating with other locos, yes
<mako> great :)
<mako> well i encourage you to do more of that, and to keep up the work
<leogg> mako: of course, i'll be glad to help out
<mako> +1 from me! welcome
<leogg> mako: thank you
<Angeltronix> thanks mako
<peperoni> thanks!
<Seveas> good
<Seveas> let's move on to member candidates then
<Seveas> AndrewB, you're first
<AndrewB> Hey guys!
<AndrewB> <paste>
<AndrewB> I am Andrew Alexander Barber, a Scottish GNU/Linux user for many years. I started contributing to the Ubuntu community after I found the very easy Rosetta translation 'tool', which was real useful as it is accessible from many locations and I tend to travel a lot. I started looking around the Ubuntu wiki and at launchpad to find all the different things that is being done within the community. I started making some documenta
<AndrewB> Really I am echo'ing my wiki, which you guys can check out http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndrewBarber
<AndrewB> </paste>
<AndrewB> ;)
<Seveas> ScotsBuntu....
<mako> AndrewB: what languages were you translating into?
<Seveas> kinda scary ;)
<AndrewB> mako: currently only Scots  as said on my wiki I am learning Gealic and hope to help out soon.
<AndrewB> Seveas: could be if you go under them kilts.
<mako> AndrewB: cool!
<mako> AndrewB: how many others are participatingin the scots translation?
<AndrewB> 1 other.
<AndrewB> So we are very slow
<AndrewB> I hope to get a few more mates to start.
<AndrewB> I have one currently who I am teaching all the basics.. he would possibly help he says
<AndrewB> He was going to come and thumbs up me but he is busy :(
<mako> AndrewB: well, it seems that you are making good progress for a small team :)
<AndrewB> mako: still alot of work sadly :(
* schwuk gives AndrewB props as a fellow member of Ubuntu-UK
<AndrewB> Gealic may get a big influx and I hope to contact local council. It is [re] now the official language of Scotland, the goverment are putting ALOT of money into it. :D
<AndrewB> Thanks schwuk
<mako> wow, that's exciting
* cjwatson has to go and do other things now, sorry - hope elmo and mako can get by without
<mako> i think that free software has a huge opportunity to make inroads in situations like this
<mako> cjwatson: thanks for being here
<jsgotangco> gaelic becoming official intersting...
<AndrewB> Some schools are taking it all on, maybe edubuntu could step in here.
<iGama> jsgotangco, yep
<iGama> din't know about that
<iGama> AndrewB, we in the Portuguese LoCo are think about that
<iGama> in small schools
<Seveas> mako, shall we do "elmo and mako ack, sabdfl is sent the logs for final ack"?
<AndrewB> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Gaelic_language
<jsgotangco> it would be intersting to see edubuntu spinoffs with specific languages
<AndrewB> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B2rd_na_G%C3%A0idhlig
<AndrewB> heh
<AndrewB> [further info] 
<mako> Seveas: yes, lets do that
<Seveas> ok, I'll take care of summarizing & log sending
<mako> AndrewB: i was just looking at that article
<mako> Seveas: thanks!
<jsgotangco> does it also include irish gaelic?
<AndrewB> mako: this is all in the future of what I hope to acheive
<iGama> Feasgar math :D
<mako> AndrewB: was the first loco team meeting yesterday?
<AndrewB> mako: well.. it did not go too well, it was not well promoted and has not really been worth it. People didn't feel the need to travel for only a 'social meet' or that is what I assume. I am talking with people such as chaddy about another one, with a proper purpose. I hope to have one soon. I also want to let smaller towns up north join in. Places with not so much coverage such as Aberdeen
<AndrewB> I think people are willing to attend should there be a proper talk.
<AndrewB> The return I got from the original was low anyway. I went to where it was going to be held incase anybody did turn up. Alas it was quiet on the ubuntu members front
<Seveas> too bad
<mako> ah, too bad
<AndrewB> I noticed the groups above efforts and hope to use their efforts here.. they seem to be doing well with them. [Install days, etc] 
<mako> AndrewB: well i appreciate your efforts in all of these areas
<Seveas> we had the same in NL: social-only meet: a few people, meet with discussions: many more
<mako> and am happy with a +1 for membreship from me
<Seveas> elmo, ?
<mako> AndrewB: and i look forward to meeting you at debconf this summer
<AndrewB> thanks to mako
<AndrewB> Oh you are attending? :D
<elmo> +1
<mako> of course!
<AndrewB> and elmo thanks.
<Seveas> ok, AndrewB. Almost there, I'll send the log to sabdfl after the meeting.
<AndrewB> mako: great I will be the one stressing over my exams.
<AndrewB> Seveas: that is great.
<Seveas> iGama, you're up
<iGama> Seveas, thanks
<iGama> My name is Marco Da Silva, I've been using Gnu/Linux for about 4 years, and in Ubuntu for 3.
<iGama> Part of the Portuguese LoCo Team, where i helping the translations and help in the organition.
<iGama> Created a portuguese Wiki for the community.
<Seveas> xerxas-, you back yet?
<iGama> Born in South Africa, Living in Portugal
<iGama> Majorly, I give support to new users
<iGama> teaching them the system
<Seveas> any folks from .pt here to cheer for iGama ?
<iGama> yep
<Susana> Hi, I'm here to cheer for iGama, he's a very active and enthusiastic member of the ubuntu-pt team
<iGama> i hope
<iGama> Constantino, Kmos Susana
<iGama> :D
<iGama> have 3 testimonials in the wiki page
<Susana> he has put a great effort into translations and support
<iGama> the www.guiaubuntupt.org has about 1000 unique daily visits,
<Susana> he has created a very usefull wiki with tutorials
<iGama> :)
<Susana> and he does an amazing job at marketing
<Susana> in Portugal
<iGama> thanks Susana  :)
<Seveas> did you create guiaubuntupt.org all by yourself?
<iGama> yep started alone
<jsgotangco> that's impressive
<iGama> now i have some help occasionaly
<iGama> :)
<Belutz> is the meeting already started?
<Seveas> Belutz, about 2 hours ago....
<AndrewB> iGama: that looks a very nice site
<Belutz> wew
<iGama> AndrewB, thanks
<iGama> :)
<iGama> Constantino,  looks like is working
<iGama> in university i try to help freshmen
<iGama> most of them are new to linux
<licio> iGama usually help the users in the #ubuntu-pt channel :)
<AndrewB> That seems to be the best place to get people into GNU/Linux
<SWAT> they are the high potentials
<iGama> and like i said in the wiki, im talking with ANSOL ( portuguese Free Software association ) to organize a SL conference
<iGama> AndrewB, SWAT yep
<iGama> they like it
<Constantino> he also helps people in the ptnet irc network
<iGama> :)
<Constantino> and he always looking for new ways to create documentation that may help people
<Constantino> for example the Portuguese National Association for Free Software (ANSOL)
<Constantino> as already talked with him
<Seveas> Looks very good
<Constantino> for a project to create screencasts
<licio> I would recommend iGama being approved for membership for his strong advocating and helping.
<mako> yes, this all looks great
<Constantino> he's algo helping organizing a large event
<Constantino> about free software
<Seveas> events are good
<Seveas> spread awareness!
<mako> +1 from me
<elmo> +1
<Seveas> great
<mako> this all looks fantastic
<iGama> :D
<Seveas> YokoZar, you're up!
<iGama> thanks all :)
<Constantino> this will take place in a large university
<YokoZar> Hey there, I'm Scott Ritchie (from eg http://www.winehq.org/site/download).  For a while I've been making the Wine packages for Ubuntu (which have later been integrated into universe by \sh), however I never actually completed the membership process.  I'd like to support my packages more, and recent changes to the email process is going to require an @ubuntu.com address for the package maintainer field, so I figure now's a good t
<mako> YokoZar: how long have you been doing the packages?
<Seveas> YokoZar, that was trimmed at "now's a good"
<iGama> Constantino, thanks man :)
<YokoZar> so I figure now's a good time to actually finish the membership process.
<YokoZar> mako: since before Breezy
<YokoZar> I don't remember if my packages were in Hoary or not
<Seveas> wine is one of those gooed upstreams who want to integrate properly
<Seveas> I like such upstreams
<war_> Have to leave, good luck
<Seveas> YokoZar, are you planning to become MOTU as well?
<YokoZar> Seveas: Probably.  I just graduated college, and I have a lot more time now.  As a MOTU, my chief focus would probably just be the Wine package though
<jsgotangco> its a pretty good focus though
<Kmos> +1 for iGama
<Kmos> :)
<jsgotangco> lots of impact happening on that front for sure
<lotusleaf> I just wanted to add that I've been using Scott's wine builds in Ubuntu for a long time now and I've always found them to be quality and I feel that his help as an Ubuntu member would be useful to the extreme.
<YokoZar> Yeah, things have gotten really exciting with Wine recently
<iGama> Kmos,  lol my turn has ended already :)
<Seveas> YokoZar, congrats on the graduation!
<Kmos> iGama: but the log not :)
<YokoZar> Thank you lotusleaf
<xerxas> iGama, congratulation :)
<lotusleaf> YokoZar, and thank you for your wine builds, I never knew you were on freenode. :)
<iGama> yep YokoZar the wine packages work great :)
<mako> YokoZar: i think i'm going to take the "it's about time" position on this on e:)
<mako> +1 from me for solid and very long term contributions in terms of wine
<SWAT> YokoZar, great work and keep it up :)
<elmo> yeah, +1
<Seveas> awesome
<Seveas> xerxas, you're up
<Seveas> (xerxas was first on the list but arrived late)
<YokoZar> Thank you everyone.  Now I'm gonna go to bed since it's 6am here ;)
<Seveas> YokoZar, g'night
<iGama> YokoZar, sweet dreams ;)
<Seveas> xerxas, please introduce yourself to us
<mako> YokoZar: thanks for showing up
<xerxas> Hi all
<xerxas> I'm samuel maftoul , I'm contributing since probably 1 year and a half to ubuntu
<xerxas> I'm often hanging on IRC and know some of the developpers.
<xerxas> I'm mostly doing bug triaging and packaging.
<xerxas> I have made my first package for edgy, and have a new package in feisty.
<xerxas> I felt it was a good time to appy for memebership as I'm spending a lot of time with ubuntu in my life even If I don't have much time
<Seveas> xerxas, did you find dholbach / seb128 ?
<seb128> I'm around
<xerxas> Seveas,  I dhollbach didn't replied yet
<xerxas> I also had some contact with slomo as I have packaged some mono stuff
<Seveas> seb128, xerxas told me you could vouch for him. Please do so if that's true :)
<seb128> xerxas is hanging on IRC quite often, he does some bug triage and and work with the telepathy team
<xerxas> Seveas,  it's true then :)
<seb128> Seveas: I would not say he does huge amonth of work though
<mako> seb128: has it been significant and sustained enough that you think he's ready for membership?
<seb128> but small contribution are welcome as well ;)
<mako> there's no shame is holding off for a meeting or two
<seb128> mako: I don't have really a good idea on what you guys expect for membership
* mako has looked through launchpad a bit
<Seveas> seb128, few months of good contributions
<mako> xerxas: your wiki page is pretty thin
<seb128> "good contribution"
<mako> we say "significant and sustained"
<Seveas> seb128, that's always a judgement call :)
<xerxas> mako,  I can updated it then
<seb128> well, maybe not then
<seb128> he's hanging on IRC
<Seveas> too bad launchpad karma history doesn't go that far back
<seb128> often points problem he's looking at
<xerxas> I think dholbach is more aware of my work
<Seveas> Edited Bug Title  	 2007-03-04 21:43:06 CET  2007-03-04
<Seveas> Bug Rejected 	2007-01-09 01:03:14 CET 2007-01-09
<seb128> he didn't do much bug triage nor actual fixing though
<mako> i'd say at two least two months and in the top 25% of people one would call "contributors"
<seb128> dholbach might be better placed to speak about telephathy team work
<mako> xerxas: in the interest of time (i'm already 15 minutes over and you'l lhave to wait for an ack from someone not here anyway) why don't you get written testimonials and work on your wiki page and we'll revisit this at a future meeting
<xerxas> I'm generally looking at new bugs comming and try to add some info to them
<seb128> Seveas, xerxas: I would not say he's doing signifiant work, no
<mako> xerxas: that's great :)
<seb128> ups
<mako> xerxas: you should keep it up :)
<seb128> Seveas, mako: ^
<xerxas> mako,  :)
<xerxas> ok , let's see that for another review
<Seveas> mako, we have one member candidate left now (who's a really good one), do you have time for him?
<iGama> Brb
<xerxas> last 2 months I have not been participating a lot
<Seveas> xerxas, if you need help flshing out your wikipage, feel free to poke me
<xerxas> I was moving and didn't have internet connexion at home
<Seveas> xerxas, that explains :) Let's get your contributions properly documented for next time
<xerxas> I have moved since yesterday
<xerxas> now I'll have more free time
<xerxas> (that's why I couldn't attend last community council meeting)
<mako> Seveas: yeah, lets go :)
<Seveas> ok
<Seveas> SWAT, you're up
<SWAT> Name: Sebastian Schauenburg - Description: M/23/Netherlands - Occupation: College student (IT) - Ubuntu contributions: P.R./Advocacy (sadly: hard to objectively quantify), supporting and setting up a couple of meetings, Education (a course about Linux -> very Ubuntu oriented), IRC support (#Ubuntu-NL), Forum support (forum.ubuntu-nl.org) - Plans: keep supporting Ubuntu and getting even more involved (including getting other people to use 
<Seveas> and let me be the first one to say \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/ for SWAT
<iGama> Seveas,  LOL
<iGama> SWAT,  ;)
<xerxas> :)
<SWAT> Seveas, thanks for the cheer
<iGama> Have to go work, see you later
<Seveas> he's one of the driving forces behind the dutch locoteam
<mako> SWAT: where in nl?
<SWAT> mako, Woensdrecht (the south part, about 15 minutes from Belgium)
<SWAT> south-west actually
<Seveas> especially https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NlWinterMeeting2007 would not have been possible without him
<gnomefreak> nl == neitherlands?
<AndrewB> Yeah
<Seveas> gnomefreak, almost. Lose the i :p
<gnomefreak> ah ty ;)
<SWAT> I don't know if silence is good, so if you have a question, just ask
<elmo> "I can sell or recommend bad products, [...] " <-- missing a negative there I assume/hope
* mako chortles
<SWAT> elmo, ow, right, that's an error
<SWAT> I somehow can't look someone in the eye and sell bad products or lie
<mako> the winter meeting looks pretty great
<Seveas> SWAT, silence is good, means people are reading your wikipage, launchpad thing etc...
<iGama> :)
<AndrewB> The meet does indeed look good [pics] 
<elmo> +1 from me
<mako> yes, definitely, a +1 form me as well
<Seveas> good :)
<mako> keep on keeping the netherlands free :)
<SWAT> merci, thanks guys :)
<SWAT> I'll keep annoying people ;)
<Seveas> next meeting would be april 17 -- is that doable, given release stress?
<elmo> Seveas: well, none of the active CC (i.e. excluding cjwatson) are actively involved in that, so it's ok by me
<mako> well, doesn't impact me hugely FWIW
<mako> Seveas: pending an ACK from mark, lets plan on it
<Seveas> ok, how about 19:00?
<mako> yes, that's good
<mako> or even 20:00
<mako> to push it toward a different end of the day to help with timezone pressures
<Seveas> fine by me
<Seveas> elmo?
<SWAT> general question: when will the 'final' word be out if we are official members?
<Seveas> SWAT, when sabdfl replies :)
<Seveas> I'll try to send him the summaries today (have to go in 15 minutes)
<jsgotangco> SWAT: the weekly newsletter will be able to catch it as well
<SWAT> merci guys, and you're also doing a great job!
<Seveas> ok, thanks for joining everyone. elmo. I'm just going to assume 20:00 is ok for you, just poke me if that's not the case.
* Seveas out
<elmo> Seveas: yes, that's fine
<lotusleaf> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 03 2007, 13:33:18 - Current meeting: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<lotusleaf> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 03 2007, 14:40:59 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 19 minutes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Apr 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Apr 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU
<lotusleaf> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 03 2007, 15:15:25 - Next meeting: Mozilla Team in 2 hours 44 minutes
<lotusleaf> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 03 2007, 15:46:09 - Next meeting: Mozilla Team in 2 hours 13 minutes
<poningru> @now
<AlexLatchford> @time
<AlexLatchford> @time london
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 03 2007, 16:59:33 - Next meeting: Mozilla Team in 1 hour 0 minutes
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 03 2007, 16:59:34 - Next meeting: Mozilla Team in 1 hour 0 minutes
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/London: April 03 2007, 17:59:35 - Next meeting: Mozilla Team in 1 hour 0 minutes
<lotusleaf> @bringonthemeeting
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Mozilla Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU
<Admiral_Chicago> sorry gents, can't make this meeting
<Admiral_Chicago> hw to do
<nixternal> not a good excuse
<Admiral_Chicago> :(
<gnomefreak> have we started yet?
<hjmf> nope
<gnomefreak> asac: AlexLatchford Admiral_Chicago  are you guys here?
<asac> yeah
<AlexLatchford> yep
<hjmf> I think Admiral_Chicago couldn't be here
<asac> Admiral_Chicago: cannot come
<gnomefreak> i cant see anything can someone please chair the meeting for me
<Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: yea, i have to get this HW done, i'll check in and out
<gnomefreak> eterm is size of a nickle :(
<asac> should be pretty short meeting
<gnomefreak> last i looked there were 3 items
<asac> be back in a minute ... sry ... then lets start
<hjmf> four now
<asac> agenda?
<gnomefreak> oh ok cool
<AlexLatchford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings
<AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: you want me to chair?
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: i cant open links atm until i figure out how to copy and paste
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: please
<AlexLatchford> heh, okay
<AlexLatchford> asac: Bughelper clue files for duplicates
<asac> gnomefreak: type :)
* gnomefreak pinging joejaxx to find out how to change this
<asac> yes, i think its time to start with this
<asac> anyone has any experience with bughelper?
<gnomefreak> we really need david for this since he was working on them
* dholbach a bit :)
<asac> bughelper?
<Admiral_Chicago> i used it before
<asac> dholbach: hey :)
<Admiral_Chicago> yes. read dholbach diary guide
<gnomefreak> anyone know the status of david?
<dholbach> heya :)
<Admiral_Chicago> it was pretty useful
<dholbach> Admiral_Chicago: rock on! :)))))
<gnomefreak> asac: seeing as dholbach wrote it he might know
<asac> dholbach: what are best-practices for figuring out duplicates with bughelper?
<Admiral_Chicago> wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Diaries/dholbach iirc
<dholbach> if you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Diaries/dholbach you will see an example where I made use of that
<Admiral_Chicago> yea, i can post a similar guide that I made with audacity crashes
<dholbach> bughelper -T <package> <search string> <text you want it to output> -p <package>              will find stuff
<dholbach> bugxml -a <package> <search string> <text you want it to output>          will write/extend a clue file for you
<dholbach> if you commit that clue file, it will turn up at http://daniel.holba.ch/bugs
<dholbach> so people have working lists they can work from
<asac> where is the clue file created ?
<asac> if i use bugxml like above?
<gnomefreak> i suggest we commit as many as possible than. dholbach is it possible to get them added after release?
<dholbach> gnomefreak: sure, just commit to a bzr branch
<dholbach> asac: ~/.bughelper/config Local-Packages-Dir
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugHelper/doc/writing-clue-files
<asac> ok ... i think we should figure out details on our own ... so better commit stuff to bugsquad ... or maintain cluefiles in mozillateam bzr?
<dholbach> ~bugsquad
<dholbach> bughelper checks out new clues every day
<Admiral_Chicago> yep, its in main iirc
<dholbach> so does bughelper on the host that has the http://daniel.holba.ch/bugs working lists
<gnomefreak> it is
<asac> ok. Admiral_Chicago, you want to setup initial clues for firefox?
<dholbach> Admiral_Chicago: no, it's bzr data that gets checked out separately
<Admiral_Chicago> right, i see that now
<gnomefreak> oh
<Admiral_Chicago> asac: i can give it a shot, I've got a fair understanding of the syntax
<asac> good :)
<Admiral_Chicago> and if not, i'm sure i'll come bother dholbach about it
<dholbach> in the easy cases you don't even need to touch xml
<dholbach> Admiral_Chicago: sure thing
<asac> cool
<lotusleaf> are you taking questions here or in #ubuntu-meeting-questions ?
* gnomefreak misses feisty :(
<gnomefreak> lotusleaf: in here
<asac> lotusleaf: maybe after meeting
<asac> add agenda item :)
<gnomefreak> depends on the question
<gnomefreak> ok Admiral_Chicago is working on clue files?
<lotusleaf> but I waited so long ;_; ok thx
<asac> yes ... if he needs something ask me or dholbach
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: you might want to email david he might already have some set up
<asac> lotusleaf: short question?
<asac> then go ahead ;)
<Admiral_Chicago> apparently I did a bad job about hiding in the background.
<gnomefreak> lotusleaf: we just started the meeting
<Admiral_Chicago> i will gnomefreak
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: ty
<lotusleaf> asac, it's not short in length but it's simple at the core
<gnomefreak> lotusleaf: go ahead and ask
<asac> i don't think david has much ... so starting from scratch should not be a problem imo
<AlexLatchford> asac: ill answer it in -questions
<lotusleaf> gnomefreak, thx, I did in -questions
<asac> i am not in there ;)
<asac> anyway
<gnomefreak> me neither
<asac> move ahead?
<gnomefreak> please
<asac> next item: apport hooks
<gnomefreak> :(
<asac> here we have some hooks in wiki
<gnomefreak> another pain
<asac> however i have no idea of the state
<gnomefreak> me neither again that was a david job. his emails confused me to no end
<asac> question is if we really need them for feisty
<asac> or if we should wait for david?
<gnomefreak> asac: now its too late isnt it?
<asac> no
<AlexLatchford> adding lotusleaf's question to the agenda
<asac> if we have tested apport hooks we could add them
<Admiral_Chicago> is apport going to be in Feisty
<gnomefreak> freeze is this week no?
<asac> AlexLatchford: ok
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: yes
<Admiral_Chicago> they was some talk about not releasing it for Feisty
<asac> yes ... its about the "Report a bug ..." menu mainly
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: its already in feisty
<Admiral_Chicago> but only during dev cycle.
<asac> and if people opt-in to crash submission
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: they are shutting it off (so it doesnt report bugs on won)
<gnomefreak> own*
<Admiral_Chicago> what do you mean gnomefreak
<Admiral_Chicago> oh i see
<Admiral_Chicago> good
<asac> in stable you have to opt-in in order to be asked to submit crashes
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: right now you get a crash dialog. that will not happen after release unless you opt to do it
* gnomefreak would like to know how
<Admiral_Chicago> okay, that sounds better than getting a million reports.
<asac> so mostly this is about: can we life with normal crash reports not containing the hook infos
<asac> e.g. plugin packages
<asac> et al
<asac> s/life/live/
<gnomefreak> would have to see the difference. right now there is no hooks for ff and tb so it wouldnt really matter imho
<asac> thats right ... i think its fine
<asac> we mostly need plugins for crashes imo
<asac> which will not be soo common once feisty is stable
<asac> as auto-submission is turned off by default
<asac> so i guess its ok to not ship hooks in feisty :), agree?
<gnomefreak> thats fine here
<AlexLatchford> so, action on this is to get Admiral_Chicago to start writing clue files?
<AlexLatchford> woops
<asac> so far yes
<asac> and ping david about apport hook state
<AlexLatchford> okay
<asac> ok whats next?
<gnomefreak> i wouls say if he has some than get them in there but i dont think we should focus on that atm
<gnomefreak> asac: that would be me
<gnomefreak> anyone often in ubuntuforums
<AlexLatchford> afraid not
<hjmf> not me
<gnomefreak> i need testers for a while with iceape
<asac> anyone would volunteer to drop a message in ubuntuforums to find testers?
<asac> e.g. for iceape?
<gnomefreak> i built it for ubuntu (starter build) and need as much testing as possible before feisty+1 gets it
<Admiral_Chicago> not me, i never go on the forums
<asac> hmm
<AlexLatchford> in Feisty+1?
<gnomefreak> i will be trying to set up a repo in the next few days if i cant i will ask asac to throw it on preview. but i would like to change the name as it is now
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: im looking at gettign it in feisty+1
<AlexLatchford> aha okay
<AlexLatchford> well ill give it a go
<AlexLatchford> try and stir up some interest
<AlexLatchford> it will be from your own repository?
<asac> maybe we can blog about it?
<AlexLatchford> and built to work on Feisty?
<asac> instead of forums?
<gnomefreak> k ty i will post it on blog sometime when i have it ready for testing (next couple of days)
<AlexLatchford> thats a better idea
<asac> and hope that the info leaks through to diffuse?
<asac> diffuse in community
<AlexLatchford> Freddy and David are on the Planet I believe
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: mine or if asac agrees the preview repo
<asac> good
<gnomefreak> i know freddy is
<Admiral_Chicago> AlexLatchford: yes, as is gnomefreak.
<Admiral_Chicago> I'll blog about it if you email me
<AlexLatchford> okay, well ill give you a buzz in teh near future to remind
<gnomefreak> not sure if david is or not i havent seen him since he was accepted
<Admiral_Chicago> he wrote on the planet a few times
<AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: he is, has written several articles on development of the community, very interesting actually
<AlexLatchford> okay, think this leads onto my point..
<gnomefreak> it will be in /topic in 3ubuntu-mozillateam when its ready incase i forget to let people know. but i should also send post to list on it
<asac> ok, once we have something to test we will drop message to mailing list
<asac> and whoever wants can blog about it
<asac> :)
<AlexLatchford> sounds good to me
<Admiral_Chicago> +1
<gnomefreak> :) ok cool
<AlexLatchford> AlexLatchford: Needs testing list.
<asac> whats that about?
<AlexLatchford> basically, I have been using the -mt builds, but I am unsure of exactly what needs testing
<gnomefreak> mt should be done with next upload
<AlexLatchford> if there is a changelog we can build
<gnomefreak> right?
<asac> changelog we can build?
<AlexLatchford> or would this be counter-productive
<asac> what do you mean?
<AlexLatchford> changelog you can publish showing what has been fixed
<asac> you want infos what things are for testing in mt-archive?
<asac> ah ok
<AlexLatchford> yeah
<asac> changelog diff from official archive to mt-xxx
<gnomefreak> asac: like what you gave me this morning i think
<asac> yes, we can do that
<AlexLatchford> because I use the -mt builds and I have no clue what to test
<AlexLatchford> can you publish them to a page?
<asac> ok fine. actually they are not always newer
<asac> only if there is something to test
<asac> yes, i will work on mt-xxx procedures
<asac> and policies
<AlexLatchford> aha thanks
<asac> add that as an action
<asac> its currently not defined what is in there and how up-to-date is that
<asac> i see that this needs transparency
<AlexLatchford> yep, because if we are going to look for preview testers, we should tell them what they are testing
<asac> exactly
<AlexLatchford> okay, i will minute that as an action
<AlexLatchford> next
<asac> i will think about it
<gnomefreak> and i think we need to set this up as a team maybe?
<asac> at best i want something automatic ... obviously :)
<gnomefreak> so we have testers at hand most of time?
* asac hates keeping wiki pages up-to-date :)
<gnomefreak> not wiki LP
<AlexLatchford> asac: I agree
<AlexLatchford> it is not worth doing unless is it automatic
<AlexLatchford> because it just takes away from your time
<asac> AlexLatchford: no ... should be fine. I don't upload to mt so often
<gnomefreak> we ALWAYS need testers either for builds or for patches or to dupe a bug
<asac> it would just be inconvenient
<asac> but i have to do that either way
<AlexLatchford> hmm okay
<asac> gnomefreak: yes
<AlexLatchford> perhaps speak to the LP Team about expanding the Fix Commited /Released to include a version, then do a diff based on bugs fixed in a version?
<asac> we should setup a test-work page
<asac> where you can find mt-needtester mt-needtestcase bugs
<asac> as well as things that should be tested in preview packages
<asac> AlexLatchford: i talk to launchpad team regularaly
<asac> however i think versioned bug tracking is still for the future
<AlexLatchford> okay
<asac> usually mt builds will contain patches for only some issues
<asac> so they should be easy to list :)
<asac> one just has to remember
<asac> ;)
<AlexLatchford> yeah sure
<asac> ok ... are we through with this item?
<AlexLatchford> think so
<gnomefreak> asac: ok so start a LP test team?
<asac> LP test team?
<AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: good idea
* gnomefreak just catching up
<AlexLatchford> yes, a mozilla-testing team
<asac> hmm
<gnomefreak> asac: for bug testing patch testing package testing ....
<asac> maybe at some point
<asac> but lets first get some testers :)
<AlexLatchford> would be useful
<asac> yes ... question is if a mozilla-testing team will allow us to more easily acquire more testers
<gnomefreak> k
<asac> ?
<asac> i am not sure about that ... might be the case ... or might not be
<AlexLatchford> it should do
<gnomefreak> it may people love joining teams for the hell of it and its a way to get them involved in mozilla products imo
<asac> hmm
<asac> ok
<gnomefreak> only way to tell is either a poll or do it
<asac> lets say ... when we find 6 volunteers, lets setup one, ok?
<gnomefreak> give me time to think about it on how to handle it and ill let everyone know but in mean time we need testers
<asac> anyway, we first need the test page :)
<asac> after that we can setup a team
<asac> because a team that has nothing to do is not worth much :)
<gnomefreak> agreed
<AlexLatchford> okay
<AlexLatchford> lets move on
<asac> ok .... next item?
<AlexLatchford> lotusleaf: Possibility of adding SeaMonkey & NVU to Feisty Repositories
* gnomefreak is getting highly pissed off now
<AlexLatchford> think this deadline has gone
<gnomefreak> seamonkey yes its iceape
<AlexLatchford> but for Feisty+1
<AlexLatchford> oh okay
<asac> lotusleaf: Possibility of adding SeaMonkey & NVU to Feisty Repositories
<gnomefreak> nvu doublt full but someone was working on this
<gnomefreak> all for feisty+1
<AlexLatchford> IceApe is the debian version though?
<asac> we don't have an nvu package
<asac> i don
<asac> t know the state of tony
<asac> iceape is seamonkey with different logo and icon
<gnomefreak> asac: nvu stopped support and went to kompozer
<gnomefreak> it was tonyyarusso  wasnt it
<asac> yes
<asac> can't tell how far he got
<asac> haven't heard much
<gnomefreak> me neither
<asac> probably he gave up on it :)
<AlexLatchford> so tonyyarusso was on NVU?
<AlexLatchford> hmm okay
<gnomefreak> is that all for important items?
<asac> anyway, i think once the feisty+1 packages are there it will be pretty easy for anyone to maintain mozilla packages
<asac> at least much more then today :)
<lotusleaf> AlexLatchford, according to the !nvu information the bot has
<AlexLatchford> !nvu
* gnomefreak can get in touvh with him later but that was for feisty+1 iirc
<ubotu> nvu is a WYSIWYG and code dual-function HTML editor for easily creating web pages.  The original developer is working on a full rewrite; meanwhile, another is doing bugfixes.  It is not the Ubuntu repos for Feisty Fawn, but ping tonyyarusso to inquire about packages.  See also !html.
<gnomefreak> !info nvu feisty
<ubotu> Package nvu does not exist in feisty
<AlexLatchford> aha okay, well NVU is planned to be in Feisty+1
<AlexLatchford> ?
<gnomefreak> lotusleaf: it was removed first couple of weeks repos were open
<AlexLatchford> and SeaMonkey is planned as IceApe
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: not sure of the name yet
<asac> AlexLatchford: depends on how we can maintain it
<lotusleaf> gnomefreak, thanks for details
<AlexLatchford> asac: but if a maintainer can be found, there is no reason as to why not?
<asac> sure
* gnomefreak started work on iceape and asac is maintainer so we are keeping that :)
<AlexLatchford> aha good
<lotusleaf> any possibility for IceApe since it will offer web browser news/email client, irc client, wysiwyg composer then since Nvu is out?
<asac> lotusleaf: not for feisty ... sorry
<gnomefreak> lotusleaf: nothing can be put in feisty
<asac> we are far after hard freeze
<gnomefreak> i will have repo open for iceape testing packages
<asac> complete new packages are out of question
<AlexLatchford> Feisty+1 probably the best bet
<asac> lotusleaf: anyway, probably you will see feisty backports at some point
<lotusleaf> asac, I thank you and the others for your time :) I hope to do testing for you in the future.
<gnomefreak> ok i need to go this has pissed me off way too much
<asac> lotusleaf: gnomefreak will provide packages for feisty
<asac> in a day or too
<asac> if its for you, you can use those
<gnomefreak> make it 2
<lotusleaf> asac, thx np, I build myself anyway, was just hoping for inclusion for the masses
<asac> ok
<gnomefreak> ok bye ill be bvack in a few hours maybe less
<asac> ok cu
<asac> thanks all
<lotusleaf> thanks again for taking my question \o/ :)
<asac> till next meeting (whenever that will be) :)
<AlexLatchford> :)
<asac> lotusleaf: welcome
* AlexLatchford goes to do the wiki clean
* asac -> #ubuntu-mozillateam
<AlexLatchford> Any news on Feisty+1 naming?
* Admiral_Chicago afk
<nicotinammide> hi
<KeBotto> Ciao a tutti
<spyro_boy> hai hai
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-04
<nicotinammide> notte
<poningru> !ssh
<ubotu> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto for usage. Putty is a nice SSH client for Windows; it can be found at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<jsgotangco> @schedule Manila
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 04 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 06 Apr 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 04:00: Edubuntu | 13 Apr 04:00: MOTU | 13 Apr 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<highvoltage> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 04 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Apr 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<ajmitch> argh, edubuntu meeting
<ajmitch> and I was wanting to sleep, too
<cbx33> hehe
<RichEd> hello all
* ogra_ waves
* RichEd hits the meeting gong
<RichEd> ogra: Technical
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> one sec
<ogra> ah, thats better
* highvoltage waves back
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<ogra> most of my dev time was spent on bug #97456 this last week
<ubotu> Malone bug 97456 in ltsp "eBox 2300 boots VERY slow with Ubuntu/LTSP-5" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97456
<ogra> and other ltsp bugs
<ogra> given that we had more and more complaints about bootspeed for feisty that was a very important bug to work on and we decided upstream in ltsp to focus on bootspeeed for feisty+1 in our specs
<ogra> i.e. UDS ltsp sessions will be about an ldm rewrite as well as kernel improvements
<ogra> on the edubuntu side i fixed some artwork glitches and laserjock forwarded me the edubuntu-docs package which is included now
<ogra> the yepl bug that supressed the handbook from the yelp mainh page was fixed as well
<ajmitch> hi
<ogra> *yelp
<RichEd> hi ajmitch, Kamping_Kaiser
<ogra> i didnt test the CDs during the last days but i dont expect any regressions
<ogra> something that blocks the release from edubuntu POV is bug #100021
<ubotu> Malone bug 100021 in ltsp "[Feisty]  LTSP fails on multi-homed server due to network manager touching predefined static interfaces" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/100021
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi RichEd
<ogra> i requested it as milestone bug from Mithrandir but he didnt accept it yet
<ogra> we need that either fixed or i will need to drop network-manager completely from edubuntu
<ogra> which would be odd ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> nm is a nucence with custom configs :\
<ogra> bug 94712 should apprently be fixed, i havent tested that yet, if someone has an up to date imafge from the second CD it would be nice to tell if its there
<ubotu> Malone bug 94712 in gnome-app-install "qcad and rasmol have no app-install entry on the edubuntu serveraddon CD" [Low,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/94712
<ogra> i'll test that anyway, but need to sync my images first
<ogra> i think thats all from the tech side this week
<ogra> oh, in case anyone is 9intrested, i started hacking on a C based greeter for ldm ... very trivial start code is here: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13546/
<ogra> (havent put that in bzr yet)
<Treenaks> $ bzr branch http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13546/
<Treenaks> now THAT would rock :)
<ogra> *g*
<Treenaks> Seveas: feature request :P
<ogra> sperc it ;)
<ogra> *spec
<Seveas> Treenaks, wget http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13546/plain -O foo.c
<Seveas> :p
<cbx33> Seveas: haha
<Treenaks> Seveas: gcc http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13546/plain -O foo.o
<Treenaks> The Web is My Filesystem
<Seveas> davfs :)
<Seveas> (no, pastebin doesn't do DAV :p)
<Treenaks> Seveas: Regel Dat :P
<Seveas> Treenaks, beware or I'll bring the cluebat with me to sevilla
<ogra> RichEd, netx topic ?
<ogra> *next even
<RichEd> Topic: documentation
<Treenaks> Seveas: oh, you're coming too?
<ogra> RichEd, oh, we wanted to do one single documentation topic again i didnt update the agenda yet
<RichEd> ogra: I've just updated now ... let me c&p the headings
<ogra> documentation looks good so far, i got a new edubuntu-docs package from laserjock yesterday but with the note that there are still pending changes and i shouldnt upload yet
<ogra> so its sitting on my disk, waiting for the final version
<RichEd> 1: Technical
<RichEd> 2: Documentation
<RichEd> 3: Art Work
<RichEd> 4: Web Sites
<RichEd> 5: Community
<RichEd> 6: Management & Planning
<ogra> the handbook is reasonable good (still lacking parts but usable)
<ogra> please proofread that stuff now that its in the distro
<ogra> you can either reach it via the icon in the system menu or for the handbook through the yelp startpage
<cbx33> ko
<ogra> any other doc stuff ?
<ogra> doesnt look like
<ogra> well, i'm really happy with the current edubuntu-docs ... LaserJock and nixternal deserve a big hug for taking that task
<RichEd> doc: just to comment that we should have a lot of the edubuntu doc people in one place at UDS
<RichEd> so we can organise a BOF or side meeting on how to improve the docs and processes
<ogra> that'd be good
<RichEd> and also any organisational issues relating to the web sites and doc hosting
<ogra> yeah
<RichEd> should I create a spec for that ?
<ogra> sounds like it would make sense, yes
<RichEd> and if yes, first and edubuntu doc discussion and then a edubuntu as part of ubuntu docs, or make this one meeting. i.e. should we chat internally first, and then talk to the main team ?
<RichEd> first *an edubuntu
<ogra> i think we'll have separate tasks to discuss ... but for plocies and methods there should be joint sessions
<ogra> *policies
<RichEd> okay, i'll look at an "internal" and "integration" as seperate sessions
<ogra> yup
<ogra> is that it for docs ?
<RichEd> looks like it
<RichEd> 3: Art Work
<ogra> ok, anything for artwork ?
* ogra wonders if he should ping kwwii in -devel to hear about his plans for feisty+1
<ogra> (and if he even has any regarding edubuntu or if we are on our own)
<ogra> hey kwwii
<kwwii> howdy
<kwwii> wassup?
<ogra> * ogra wonders if he should ping kwwii in -devel to hear about his plans for feisty+1
<ogra> <ogra> (and if he even has any regarding edubuntu or if we are on our own)
<RichEd> kwwii: you have radar ears
<ogra> we're in our weekly edubuntu meeting
<kwwii> I am good ;-)
<ogra> and usually discuss artwork here as one topic ...
<cbx33> hey kwwii
<ogra> do you have plans for feisty+1 regarding edubuntu ?
<RichEd> ogra: we need to clear up how the artwork will work from a resource and process point of view ... so kwwii we'd appreciate your thoughts
<kwwii> as far as artwork goes, I was planning on starting the planning as soon as feisty is out the door (so, next week)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> planning of starting the planning :p
<ogra> well, release is 19th :)
<kwwii> there are basically two options: try to make all the derivs somewhat similar, or keep going down the path we have been, making them different
<ogra> so you have two ;)
<ogra> well, edubuntu stays pretty close to ubuntu now
<cbx33> hey jsgotangco
<ogra> gdm and the gnome splash are identical ... just slightly differing in colot or layout
<kwwii> ogra: right
<ogra> since i plan to rewwrite ldm in feisty+1 i will be able to make ldm look the same as well
<RichEd> kwwii: we see ourselves as a variant (that's the best term silbs and I could come up with) ... so we'd like to keep the theme and look related
<cbx33> ogra: and have the clock :p
<jsgotangco> sorry a bit late
<ogra> so all we're differing in is the gtk theme colors and wallpaper
<kwwii> RichEd: excellent, that makes things much easier :-)
<cbx33> and icons
<ogra> ah, right icons
<jsgotangco> are we having last minute art changes?
<cbx33> not that I know of
<ogra> jsgotangco, not planned yet, no, do you want any ?
<kwwii> jsgotangco: hopefully not
<ogra> now would be the time to do them if so ;)
<RichEd> kwwii: our thoughts were that we would possibly like to get input from our community, for ideas and inspiration, but to treat the input as raw material. then we'd have it polished and matched.
<kwwii> I've sent a mail to mark and jane concerning this and I will call her later in the day
<ogra> well, from my POV it would be ok to keep it the same but have a different colorcode and wallpaper ...
<ogra> so you can still clearly distinguish, but recognize the inheritance
<RichEd> yep. like flavours of coke. different but related.
<kwwii> RichEd: that is exactly what I wanted to do as well...check out how redhat did it, they got it right http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=62
<ogra> like we have it in the gdm theme in feisty
<RichEd> kwwii: loading ...
<kwwii> they have an artist that works out the final work with the basis coming from the community
<jsgotangco> nice!
<kwwii> if we start asap we have 6 months to get it right this time too
<RichEd> exactly. allow community to participate, and then defer end result to a coordinator.
<kwwii> I hope to discuss this with Mark in Spain
<RichEd> from our side, we were proposing using aliasvegas and cbx33 as our 1st line art directors. they would do the initial co-ordination, and send a shortlist through to you.
<kwwii> we *really* need a process like this to improve the artwork
<kwwii> RichEd: sounds like a good plan to me
<RichEd> can we set up a BOF on artwork for Spain ?
<kwwii> that would be a great idea
<RichEd> If we bed down a process formally through a BOF then it becomes gospel when published.
<kwwii> yepp...that was kinda why I was waiting to write specs
<kwwii> last time I wrote them all up before hand and the planning went somewhat awry
<kwwii> (those were for kubuntu only though)
<RichEd> I suggest that we bring in Kubuntu and Xubuntu as well as Edubuntu. Talk about a Mother-Process and a Child-Process, and get a cycle going with timings.
<RichEd> So that artwork is not part of the release last minute crunch time :)
<kwwii> RichEd: sounds excellent - can you plan the BOF? (/me has no idea how to do that)
<kwwii> my experience has been that if it is not officialy planned there is little chance to get everyone together
<ogra> well, our process will always differ slightly since we can just use ubuntus artwork and modify, which ku and xubuntu cant
<kwwii> ogra: you would be amazed at how similar they are, really
<ogra> heh
<RichEd> ogra: agreed, but that's in the details. the actual process should be well defined, regardless of how the inspiration or material originates.
<ogra> i will surely look
<RichEd> kwwii: sure ... I'll draft up something, and then assign it to you. Unfortunately cbx33 will not be able to make it to spain, so we'll need to get him in online.
<RichEd> I'll make sure I am at the session.
<kwwii> RichEd: excellent, thanks
<ogra> me too, for the tech stuff ...
<cbx33> I shall try to attend the session via voip/gobby
<cbx33> if it's working this time and the timetable is planned far enough in advance
<cbx33> at least for the initial session
<kwwii> we completely missed out on inviting artists this time around
<kwwii> ;-(
<RichEd> cbx33: Even if you just IRC in, I'll speak on your behalf.
<ogra> the timetable should be ready 12h in advance, i dont think its possible to plan further out
<kwwii> cbx33: we can also discuss things in advance, so that I've some idea of your thoughts
<cbx33> ogra: that really is no good for me
<cbx33> I need to know a few days before
<RichEd> kwwii: the gatekeepers are probably more important to have in the process meeting. a good process will always improve the end results.
<cbx33> but I'll try and and work with that
<ogra> cbx33, a UDS has a slight dynamic ....
<cbx33> i can understand that
<cbx33> but maybe plan the first 2/3 days a few weeks in advance
<cbx33> then the last 2 could be dynamic
<cbx33> you know how many initila sessions you have to get through right?
<cbx33> gives us outsiders more of a chance of being able to attend
<RichEd> cbx33: no worries ... i'll make decisions on your behalf ;) and volunteer you where necessary
<jsgotangco> 2 or at most 3
<cbx33> thanks rexbron
<cbx33> RichEd:
<kwwii> well, I won't be coming until tuesday anyway, so we can plan it for sometime later in the week and things should work out fine, with advance notice
<RichEd> right .... so that's the future view ... what about feisty ...
<ogra> RichEd, do you like the artwork ?
<RichEd> all under control at the moment, or things to resolve still ?
<ogra> artwork is done since the artwork freeze indeed
<kwwii> I think all the major pieces are in place, or?
<RichEd> ogra: where can I find it ? (haven't had time to download a test version yet)
<ogra> there were some minor bugs i fixed last week
<ogra> but beyond that it should be ready for release now
<cbx33> :D
<ogra> RichEd, only here atm http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/gnome/edubuntu-artwork
<ogra> or if ypou install feisty or test the liveCD
<RichEd> thanks
<ogra> i'll do some screenshots after the final freeze
* cbx33 is heading off soon
<cbx33> sorry.....ony had an hour allocated
<cbx33> got to get home ;)
<ogra> looks like we're done with artwork
<RichEd> thanks kwwii
<RichEd> moving on: Web Sites
<kwwii> great, thanks all
<ogra> yeah thanks for joining
<kwwii> np
<RichEd> Not much to report here ... pips1 and I have not had a chance to meet up ... and will van der leij has been off ill.
<RichEd> Just to fill you in: will caught a meningitus type infection in Argentina, and was hopitalised for 10 days.
<cbx33> bye all
<cbx33> oh no
<cbx33> if you can get a message to him
<cbx33> wish him well from me
<jsgotangco> nasty
<RichEd> Luckily it was bacterial, and not viral, so he did not have a high brain temperature. He was discharged yesterday, and will be on bed rest until the end of next week, working through his email backlog slowly.
<merriam> Will van der Leij?
<RichEd> To add to that, he was robbed at gun-point on the last day in Argentina.
<RichEd> Yep, that's him.
<merriam> oh dear
<jsgotangco> may i suggest that we totally change our website backend to something more hmmm...configurable..drupal is pretty drab when it comes to this
<ogra> well, ubuntu just switched to dripal as well
<ogra> *drupal
<ogra> and wasnt configurability over moin the reason to switch to it at all ?
<RichEd> jsgotangco: matt nuzum is making a drupal them available for flavouration by each variant
<RichEd> *theme
<RichEd> we'll have input and local control, as with artwork, but this will help with consistency across the distros
<highvoltage> cool
<jsgotangco> that's cool
<RichEd> he will do the same with loco's ... and possibly even an "approved loco theme" ... and an "unofficial loco theme" base
<RichEd> the idea will be to make all the sites look related, but to provide an immediate visual clue as to where you are at any given time
<jsgotangco> should work
<RichEd> note that Ubuntu is now moving into a the higher levels, and the marketing / image needs to be professional an clear.
<RichEd> we've been promoted to Intel Partner level 1
<ogra> \o/
<RichEd> and also are making it onto Gartner ratings & reports
<ogra> \o/
<jsgotangco> its nice to see the project take off
<ogra> its hard to see it growing to a real company from the inside though :)
<ogra> we suddenly have buerocracy *g*
<RichEd> indeed .... from humble beginnings, and hard work from a lot of dedicated people, a 3 year old upstart is making an impact few belived possible.
<RichEd> *believed
<jsgotangco> oh well
<RichEd> right ... moving on ...
<RichEd> 5: Community
<RichEd> Jono and I have spoken about creating a community around schools & sudents ... under each loco group.
<RichEd> In SA, they have a SLUG = schools linux user group
<RichEd> We think it would be good to try to get some of these going in various countries, as a wy of uniting indivuduals who play with open source, but who do not use it at school, as well as the schools who use Ubuntu.
<RichEd> We'll thrash out some ideas at UES and UDS around this.
<jsgotangco> that's well and good, but your biggest stumblilng block is to have these loco people, who are all volunteers dedicated more time for such
<RichEd> jsgotangco: I understand, but we hope that the schools people will have time themselves. Ideally a teacher would head up the effort.
<RichEd> The other tangential link to this was promoting Ubuntu as a developer environment, an for our specific case, an environment which can be used to teach computer programming.
<RichEd> We're still going to work out how to relate these two together, and may motivate to get Jono an assistant to look after the education aspects of community.
<RichEd> That will be a UES discussion.
<RichEd> 6: Management & Planning
<jsgotangco> well good luck, schools are easy to get for sure but to have them part of the general user community is a different matter
<RichEd> jsgotangco: that's why we want a focus person.
<RichEd> I've got quite a few papers submitted for UES, and it's looking good for both the educator discussions, as well as dicussion topics for the technical track.
<RichEd> We'll have Guadelinex present, as well as meDUXa ... each for a presentation on their distro, and discussions on how to work more closely together.
<RichEd> I will get all the presentations, and work with the people and marketing to turn these into approved case studies.
<RichEd> Also includes Georgia and their Kubuntu rollout.
<RichEd> And also, Intel are producing a Classmate PC to pitch into the OLPC space ... at around $270.
<RichEd> They are sending a bunch of engineers to UES and UDS to discuss how we get ubuntu and edubuntu running on the system.
<jsgotangco> i don't see it much of a problem, its pretty much an intel mobile celeron platform
<RichEd> They are currently developing in Poland, Egypt, Brazil, Nigeria, Mexico, India and China.
<RichEd> jsgotangco: they have limited hardware power, and may go for Xubuntu with Edubuntu on top of that.
<RichEd> But nice news to hear that they are looking to us, for what seems to be a significant education project.
<jsgotangco> just a hanging question before you go on, whatever happened to the OLPC spec for ubuntu/edubuntu which rodarvus is supposed to handle?
<ogra> was
<RichEd> jsgotangco: a tale of political intrigue as follows ...
<RichEd> SIPA was the thai government agency, who were igning a contract with:
<RichEd> 1. OLPC
<RichEd> 2. Canonical
<RichEd> 1. was a commitment to buy several 100,000 devices
<RichEd> 2. was a contract to develop a comparison desktop to sugar
<RichEd> when the prime minister was deposed last year, they backed off 1.
<RichEd> and as a result, 2. was dropped by them as we were gearing up to sign the MOU
<jsgotangco> ah well i wondered what happened to it, i have access to a B1 machine anyways
<Kamping_Kaiser> 'compariosn desktop to sugar'?
<RichEd> so ... it was all out of our control
<RichEd> they wanted an edubuntu / ubunto operating system to compare to the RD offering
<RichEd> *RH not RD
<ogra> jsgotangco, apart from that, since rodrigo is gone we dont have any dedicated ressource for OLPC anymore
<Kamping_Kaiser> Sugar runs on ubuntu
* highvoltage hopes rodrigo is happy where he is now
<ogra> i'd guess so
<RichEd> highvoltage: that sounds like an epitaph
<jsgotangco> ogra: oh thats something i didn't know
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: me neither
<Kamping_Kaiser> um.?
<ogra> jsgotangco, we talked about it in several meetings, i thought you had attended one of these
<Kamping_Kaiser> was that meant to be to me?
<jsgotangco> sorry can't recall well its the past
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: my comment referred to your sugar comment
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, but doesnt make sense. 'sugar runs on ubuntu' ' me neither'
<jsgotangco> lol
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: read jsgotangco comment in between those
<RichEd> while I am fascinated by the whole OLPC drive, and have a lot of respect for what they are trying to achieve, and some of the brilliant ideas, I think they are a way off getting a production device into the hands of school kids.
<RichEd> Intel with its muscle and market power may get more results in the short term.
<RichEd> *although I must add that I support freedom from market monopolies* :)
<jsgotangco> RichEd: dude, I'm sorry to say this, no offense meant but Intel's Classmate PC project is a pretty much a reaction to OLPC along with its partnership with MS
* highvoltage thinks that the OLPC guys have done brilliant work in terms of innovation
<highvoltage> Intel's initial plan was to ship Windows with their low-end education laptops. how boring is that?
<ogra> but they dont have that big financial backing
<RichEd> jsgotangco: agreed ... but real devices in the hands of people has greater impact than imagination.
<ogra> having intel pushing there will gain more than the whole OLPC project i suspect
<highvoltage> innovation is innovation. lots of famous scientists didn't have financial backing either, yet we use their technologies every day.
<RichEd> highvoltage: they have some amazing concepts ... quite breakthrough thinking
<ogra> even though olpc prepared the ground
<RichEd> the main thing is that Intel see fit to talk to Ubuntu ... which is a win for freedom inside their muscle space
<highvoltage> RichEd: yep
<highvoltage> RichEd: agreed
<jsgotangco> so we're pretty much being practical now which is understandable
<RichEd> ogra: that's how innovation often works, the small guys challenge the thinking, and force the big guys to react. sometimes the end result is still a win for the big guys, but the smaller guys innovation leads to the product improvement
<RichEd> such is the way of our capitalist world
<RichEd> ...
<ogra> right ... and in the end M$ buys them :)
<RichEd> somehow I don't see mark shaking on a deal with bill ;)
<ogra> heh
<RichEd> And a final comment from me is a follow up to the Nigeria conference I attended:
<RichEd> we ran an Ubuntu iCafe for delagates ... well received
<ogra> nice
<RichEd> hey hey mr rodarvus
<rodarvus> hi there :)
<ogra> rodarvus, !
<RichEd> the conference was sponsored by UNDESA to set up a shared parliamentary network for African Countries, based on Open Source
<rodarvus> figured I'd pass by and say hello to you guys :)
<RichEd> They will be sharing an application pool, and developing jointly.
<ogra> good timing :)
<rodarvus> (but please don't interrupt the meeting just for me :) )
<RichEd> Ubuntu was synonymous with Open Source in all presentations, so we won some good mindset
<ogra> cool!
<RichEd> And we were told on Monday that the National Assembly of Cameroon has agreed to get ubuntu installed on the 50 new PCs currently being procured.
<RichEd> ... and that's all from me folks
<ogra> we have some shool admins from cameroon that drop by from time to time in #edubuntu
<ogra> (running edubuntu)
<RichEd> ogra: well grab them next time ! we need to build on this.
<ogra> yeah
* highvoltage might visit cameroon soon and see their labs
<ogra> i'll try to think of it next time i run into them
<RichEd> highvoltage: expand on that comment ?
<RichEd> we've been asked by UNDESA to suggest how we train the trainers (a university across the road from the government buildings) to provide ongoing training and support in french
<RichEd> i.e. Train The Trainer in english, and then hand over to the local
<sbalneav> Morning RichEd
<RichEd> hello scotty
<RichEd> just wrapping up actually ... any more items ?
<ogra> none from here
<RichEd> (ogra: we've managed to cut it down by 20 mins ... next time we aim for 1.5 hours and wean it down to 1)
<ogra> yay
<ogra> so adjourned ?
* RichEd hits the gong once
<RichEd> and twice ...
<RichEd> and thrice ...
<RichEd> beam us out of here scotty ...
<RichEd> thanks all
<ogra> thanks
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Apr 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 20:00 UTC: Forum Council
<Berardo> Does anyone knows Billy Cina?
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-05
<Lure> @schedule ljubljana
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 05 Apr 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 22:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 22:00: Forum Council
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 05 Apr 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 11 Apr 16:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 16:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 16:00: Forum Council
<mdz> good afternoon
<kwwii> hi mdz
<mdz> cjwatson: here?
<cjwatson> yes
<dholbach> hiya
<pitti> hi
* mvo is here
<Riddell> hi
<mdz> 2 minutes, everyone here?
* heno is here
* Riddell reads https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DevelTeamMeeting20070405
<bdmurray> howdy
<mdz> cjwatson,Keybuk: everyone accounted for?
<cjwatson> I think I have the list of people on holiday complete
<mdz> thanks Riddell
<Keybuk> mdz: accounting now
<cjwatson> waiting for rtg
<cjwatson> (already pinged)
<Keybuk> mdz: not expecting iwj, he's off sick
<cjwatson> asac: here?
<asac> yes
<cjwatson> ok, I was just about to say that this was one of your usual unavailable times, so you might not be :)
<cjwatson> ok, everyone accounted for for me
<mdz> Keybuk: likewise?
<asac> cjwatson: i would apologize in that case ... was just confused because of @schedule :)
<Keybuk> mdz: yup
<mdz> ok, good, let's get started
<mdz> some of you may have heard that we're releasing in two weeks :-)
<cjwatson> EASY
<mdz> Mithrandir's last email said we had 140 release-critical issues
<pitti> and we don't even know the name of feisty+1 yet :(
<mdz> but that was a week ago
<mdz> pitti: I sit next to Mark now and will ask every day until that changes :-)
<Keybuk> pitti: we're trying our hardest
<mdz> won't be long now
<cjwatson> I haven't done a bug count today yet
<mdz> strike that, it said "about 140"
<cjwatson> (give me two minutes)
<mvo> I think we have ~90 milestoned currently
<pitti> 113
<seb128> what do you count release-critical?
<seb128> anything using a 7.04 milestone?
<Mithrandir> milestoned and in main+restricted
<mdz> I count 131
<seb128> I tend to use milestone with low importance for things I want to work on, that doesn't mean they are r-c
<mdz> oh, I counted universe+multiverse
<cjwatson> 131> ditto
<pitti> weird, I see 113 milestone bugs; anyway, lots
<mdz> this being our sixth release, it's about time we had an agreement about how release-critical issues are recorded
<Mithrandir> so 109 now.
<cjwatson> seb128: regardless, they all need to be unmilestoned or fixed before release
<heno> note that some of these may be dupes of already fixed bugs such as bug 89070
<ubotu> Malone bug 89070 in casper "Can't eject cdrom (dup-of: 84592)" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89070
<ubotu> Malone bug 84592 in casper "feisty shutdown eject doesn't" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84592
<mdz> I think it makes most sense to reserve the ubuntu-7.04 milestone for truly critical issues
<heno> I plan to look for more such cases
<cjwatson> 131> that figure counts duplicates and bugs with multiple tasks
<seb128> cjwatson: right, I already dropped some of the list but I still have a bunch of bugs I want to work on and that's the best way I've found to keep track of them
<mdz> we can create a second milestone for things which we want to remember to look at, if that's needed
<pitti> that should be 'in progress' state
<Mithrandir> mdz: we have one (which is *cough*, part of edgy), later.
<mdz> we're unlikely to fix all 109 of those bugs during freeze
<pitti> seb128: why not assign to you/set in progress? that works very well for me and is more natural to the LP workflow
<Mithrandir> heno: 89070 isn't on the list of RC bugs.
<mdz> mvo: do you still have 25 targeted bugs?
<seb128> well, I though r-c was > importance bugs
<heno> Mithrandir: sorry
<seb128> pitti: because I list them for desktop team and I'm not working on them, dholbach work on some also, etc
<mvo> mdz: no, my count should be much less, around 5
<Mithrandir> heno: don't use +milestone/ubuntu-7.04, use https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_contact=&field.milestone%3Alist=200&field.component=1&field.component=2&field.component-empty-marke
<mdz> mvo: you have many marked fix committed
<mdz> mvo: did you forget to change them to fix released?
<seb128> pitti: that's a "would be nice to fix those desktop bugs" list and anybody is welcome to give a hand ;)
<mvo> mdz: most likely I will go over them
<mdz> Mithrandir: is there a link to that from UbuntuDevelopment?
* mvo wants "changelog closes bugs"
<mdz> mvo: we're very close
<mdz> I spoke with kiko about it on Monday
<Mithrandir> mdz: I don't think so, no.  I can put it on my list of things to do next week.
<mdz> it is reportedly BjornT's next focus
<mvo> mdz: cool! sorry, but my milestone search exclude fix-commited so I haven't noticed
<mdz> and kiko has given him some code for the soyuz bit
<mdz> Mithrandir: please do; that's a list all developers should be able to find easily
<mdz> Keybuk: do you know what's happening with this critical evms bug?
<Keybuk> mdz: there's a new one?
<Keybuk> what #?
<mdz> Keybuk: the one at the top of Mithrandir's url
<mdz> bug 74317
<ubotu> Malone bug 74317 in evms "race with devmapper" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/74317
<Keybuk> mdz: that's the first time I've seen that one
<cjwatson> bug 63175 and bug 89069 are likely the same thing, but it's difficult
<ubotu> Malone bug 63175 in e2fsprogs "Edgy Beta -- fsck on every (re)boot" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/63175
<ubotu> Malone bug 89069 in ubiquity "problem with time" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89069
<Keybuk> and it is likely that wasabi is correct in the fix
<mdz> cjwatson: it's not clear to me why that would change since warty
<mdz> Keybuk: can you chase it up and fix it in ian's absence if necessary?
<cjwatson> it doesn't surprise me that it changed around dapper/edgy due to certain internal installer changes
<Keybuk> mdz: yup
<mdz> mvo: bug 99171 is not a real bug, but it does need to get done
<ubotu> Malone bug 99171 in update-manager "Reminder: disable "useDevelopmentRelease=True" before final release in CD self upgrader" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/99171
<mdz> mvo,Mithrandir: when is the right time to throw that switch?
<mvo> mdz: after RC
<mdz> mvo: surely before RC, no?
<pitti> mvo: why would it hurt to do it earlier?
<pitti> mvo: after all, there's no feisty+1 yet to upgrade to
<mdz> (unfortunately)
<mvo> after the last image that we consider "not-yet-released"
<mvo> otherwise people will not get a updated dist-upgrader (if we issue one)
<mvo> but we need to turn it off before final release
<mdz> RC should have all of the trimmings for final; that's the point
<mdz> version numbers and all
<Mithrandir> mvo: you mean people who run the dist-upgrader from RC to final won't get the updated one?
<mvo> Mithrandir: if we have a updated one on the net, then no. if we don't it does not matter
<mdz> upgrading to RC should give the same experience as upgrading to final, so we can test the final process
<Mithrandir> I agree with mdz, while we're updating langpacks after RC, I'd like to avoid changing code at all possible after RC is out.
<Mithrandir> that's kinda the point of RC.
<Riddell> cjwatson: the release notes URL link should be turned on in ubiquity?
<cjwatson> Riddell: it already is
<mvo> fair enough, then we need to turn it off before the weekend
<mdz> mvo: would this be a good item to add to the checklists?
<mdz> rather than filing a bug
<cjwatson> Riddell: oh, argh, maybe it isn't, I'll check
<mvo> mdz: good point! I used a bug because I wanted to be 100% certain that I don't forget it
<Riddell> cjwatson: it's a file that needs putting on the CD as I remember, maybe Mithrandir knows
<cjwatson> Riddell: no, it's my problem
<cjwatson> it's supposed to have been on the CD for ages but apparently fell off due to a slight code bug
* mvo makes a note to add it to the release-checklist
<Riddell> cjwatson: where does it point to (for Kubuntu)?
<cjwatson> -> #ubuntu-devel
<Riddell> yep
<mdz> mvo: thanks
<mdz> cjwatson: is that on the checklist as well?
<mdz> Mithrandir: have you given up on bug 45696?
<ubotu> Malone bug 45696 in network-manager "NetworkManager can't find interface on resume from suspend" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/45696
<cjwatson> mdz: it's supposed to be on the CD throughout release, so no. it's just a bug.
<mdz> Mithrandir: bug 58503 has a safe+sane-looking fix
<ubotu> Malone bug 58503 in usplash "No response to keyboard input at prompt after ejecting CD-ROM" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/58503
<cjwatson> mdz: (updating the mapping table is on the checklist, but that's not what Riddell's talking about)
<Mithrandir> mdz: 45696 has gone away by itself for me, I used to see it all the time, but no longer.
<mdz> Keybuk: thoughts on bug 66637?
<ubotu> Malone bug 66637 in util-linux "After running mkswap, swap space is discarded, system fails to hibernate (invalid swap signature)" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/66637
<mdz> Mithrandir: it just happened to me today
<mdz> so it's still around
<mvo> Mithrandir: I have it here too
<mdz> mvo: do you get the connection limit message?
<Keybuk> mdz: isn't that the old "mkswap discards the previous UUID" bug?
<mdz> Keybuk: yes
<bdmurray> I've seen that some recently too
<Keybuk> mdz: I had a mostly finished patch for that
<mdz> Keybuk: with 13 duplicates
<mvo> mdz: I haven't checked
<Keybuk> except we had new information that sometimes fsck changes the UUID too, so I was investigating that
<Keybuk> but got side-tracked by the evms/md/lvm/devmapper stuff
<Keybuk> it's next on my list to fix
<mdz> ok
<Mithrandir> mdz: 58503, I haven't looked at that lately, I've spent time on trying to fix NM to work beter.
<Mithrandir> better, even.
<mdz> BenC: how about the kernel bugs on that list?
<mdz> Mithrandir: I have never seen that one, but it's fairly serious for folks who do (and can't be fixed in an update)
<BenC> mdz: We're reviewing things
<BenC> checking to see what we want to target for RC and release
<mdz> cjwatson: bug 85612 -> agreed
<ubotu> Malone bug 85612 in kde-systemsettings "Edgy/Kubuntu update broke access to display settings on 4 separate systems (dup-of: 38692)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85612
<ubotu> Malone bug 38692 in kde-systemsettings "systemsettings doesn't load Display, Disk and Filesystems control module" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/38692
<mdz> er
<Keybuk> mdz: that fix is inspired
<mdz> bug 85162, that is
<ubotu> Malone bug 85162 in localechooser "installer doesn't permit to set little countries" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/85162
<Keybuk> and really would explain why it doesn't work
<cjwatson> yeah, too risky
<BenC> mdz: At this point, I don't thing any of our bugs are real showstoppers, but we have some that would be worth fixing for release
<mdz> Keybuk: which?
<Keybuk> mdz: 58503 ... if the keyboard is in the wrong mode, that'd explain why previous attempts to debug have failed
<mdz> BenC: worth fixing why?
<Keybuk> we were assuming the keyboard was attached to the wrong VT/etc.
<mdz> BenC: if they can be fixed via updates instead, it's time to start thinking about that
<mdz> Keybuk: ah, right
<mdz> seb128: what about the panel crash with 8972342 duplicates?
<pitti> BenC: I think the nvidia vs. legacy one will hurt upgraders badly
<BenC> mdz: The only patches I'm considering at this point have to be non-ABI changes, and pretty trivial (meaning we can review it and see that it will fix things, without a lot of testing)
<seb128> mdz: I've just uploaded another gtk+2.0 fix 30 seconds ago, might fix it
<heno> Mithrandir: can we fix bug 91868 ? it should be a trivial casper script change
<doko> we're down to 98 RC reports, lets continue 4hours, and we're done =)
<ubotu> Malone bug 91868 in casper "Magnifier does not start from accessibility menu due to incorrectly referenced file." [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91868
<BenC> pitti: That's still in progress, and I will have it before RC
<seb128> mdz: another invalid read to icon code I've caught with valgrind
<pitti> BenC: cool
<Mithrandir> heno: yes.
<mvo> BenC: rock!
<heno> cool
* dholbach hugs seb128
<mdz> kylem: bug 88219?
<ubotu> Malone bug 88219 in lilo "lilo won't add the new kernel 2.6.20" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88219
<mdz> seb128: so there's a fix on the way?
<seb128> mdz: not easy to debug, we get ziliion of dups but nobody able to get a valgrind log of it crashing
<mdz> seb128: oh, I thought you meant you had caught a log of it
<seb128> mdz: I'm not sure that's "the fix", it stopped the incorrect read to icon code I was getting
<seb128> mdz: right, not sure that's the only bug though
<seb128> though I'm confident this one is good
<mdz> asac: bug 89071 doesn't sound release-critical
<ubotu> Malone bug 89071 in firefox "Can't allow sites for adding extensions" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89071
<seb128> I'm running gnome-panel under valgrind for some hours and I've get no error on package installations, upgrades, etc
<asac> mdz: yes we can untarget that
<kylem> mdz, i'll have to look at it again. i thought i fixe dit.
<mvo> seb128: have you tried theme changes as well?
<asac> mdz: done
<mvo> seb128: I got some crashes in synaptic from people changing themes during downloads
<seb128> mvo: it's not happening on theme change, it's happening on upgrades
<mvo> seb128: ok
<seb128> mvo: might be a different one :/
<mvo> seb128: yeah :/ joy!
<mdz> mvo: do you have any fix committed bugs which *shouldn't* be fix released? (any pending uploads?)
<mvo> mdz: I don't think so, I was careful to make sure that everything went in before the freeze today, but I will double check
<tkamppeter> seb128, your non-optimized version for bug 91218 seems still not be a good workaround.
<ubotu> Malone bug 91218 in gnome-cups-manager "MASTER: [apport]  gnome-cups-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in g_signal_emit_valist()" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91218
<mdz> Keybuk: bug 96777?
<ubotu> Malone bug 96777 in upstart "ttyS0 not migrated properly on upgrades from edgy to feisty" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96777
<mvo> mdz: some of the obvious ones I closed already
<tkamppeter> someone has installed your package and got the same crash.
<mdz> mvo: there are a bunch on the list; I'll reload
<mdz> mvo: the update-manager bugs are really cluttering the list
<Keybuk> mdz: err, I thought I uploaded that before I came here
<seb128> tkamppeter: the change to build with -O0 on amd64 didn't work apparently, I'll have an another look
<Keybuk> mdz: but I don't see it in the archive -- will look when I get home :)
<mdz> Keybuk: last upstart was 11 mar
<Keybuk> yeah, weird, there's a newer one
<Keybuk> 0.3.8-2
<Keybuk> but LP knows nothing
<mdz> Mithrandir: re: bug 102105, LSB 3.1 was not a release goal
<ubotu> Malone bug 102105 in lsb "Issues of Ubuntu's LSB compliance - Login shell startup" [High,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102105
<mdz> Mithrandir: have you been in contact with mdke regarding bug 103308?
<Mithrandir> mdz: iirc, tkamppeter milestoned it.  And I think LSB is on crack there, since they can't mandate changes to what POSIX sh should support.
<ubotu> Malone bug 103308 in ubuntu-docs "newtoubuntu documents has link to English version of user-guide rather than localised version" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103308
<mdz> Mithrandir: oh, it was only reported 2 hours ago. urgh
<Mithrandir> mdz: so, no, I haven't.  I'm on vacation. :-P
<mdz> seems worthy of a freeze exception if the fix is simple
<doko> mdz: the wording is "shall" in both cases
<Keybuk> doko: what does that mean for LSB?
<tkamppeter> Mithrandir, so POSIX does not require -l and /etc/profile.d for sh?
<Keybuk> shall implies required?
<Keybuk> tkamppeter: right
<mdz> doko: in 3.0 as well, you mean?
<mdz> we passed the 3.0 validation tests at some point
<doko> looking ...
<tkamppeter> If "shall" would not require anything, why are such terms in the LSB?
<cjwatson> http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/sh.html <- POSIX sh
<Mithrandir> and while I think that LSB support would be nice, LSB should not try to change behaviour of /bin/sh and similar interfaces.
<mdz> doko: what were the two cases?
<Mithrandir> and profile.d has been rejected from Debian policy multiple times.
<mdz> that's all of the interesting high-priority milestoned bugs, at a glance
<cjwatson> sounds like they got it into LSB by the back door
<doko> mdz: "The shell shall support an additional option -l" and "The sh utility shall read and execute commands ..."
<cjwatson> I think the swap formatting control thing in ubiquity should be done if at all possible
<Keybuk> doko: so they're both required by the LSB?
<cjwatson> just haven't quite had time yet
<Keybuk> (note we're nowhere near LSB compliance according to the letter of the spec, so I don't think more non-compliance matters)
<cjwatson> I'm doing bug 91868
<ubotu> Malone bug 91868 in casper "Magnifier does not start from accessibility menu due to incorrectly referenced file." [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91868
<heno> cjwatson: thanks
<cjwatson> ok, pending agenda items?
<cjwatson> there are only a couple
<cjwatson> (ogra) Edubuntu is RC blocked on bug #100021 (or on removing NM from the Edubuntu seeds) at the moment.
<ubotu> Malone bug 100021 in ltsp "[Feisty]  LTSP fails on multi-homed server due to network manager touching predefined static interfaces" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/100021
<Mithrandir> it doesn't seem like "shall" is defined in the LSB spec.
<cjwatson> can somebody who knows n-m give advice or fixes as necessary?
<mdz> ogra: how is it that this was only discovered 2 weeks before release?
<Mithrandir> but they use shall and must.
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: those are both "required" things, Englishishwise
<tkamppeter> Mithrandir, then the LSB spec is broken.
<Keybuk> "should" is normally used in specs to mean "recommended"
<Keybuk> and "may" for optional
<pitti> ogra: not sure whether this is fixable ATM; n-m's very concept is 'one active device at a time' :(
<doko> Keybuk: http://refspecs.freestandards.org/LSB_3.1.0/LSB-Core-generic/LSB-Core-generic/def.html so yes, it's must.
<doko> mdz: 3.0 has the same wording
<tkamppeter> Keybuk, if they are required, this bug needs to get fixed.
<Keybuk> tkamppeter: *shrug* if it isn't part of their test suite, it's not that important
<mdz> pitti: network-manager may not be appropriate for servers with multiple network interfaces
<Keybuk> I'd argue that they're trying to change POSIX-defined interfaces there, so the LSB needs to be fixed
<mdz> this is an odd situation because desktop packages get installed on edubuntu servers
<pitti> mdz: right, neither for desktop machines with the same situation (mine, for example)
<Mithrandir> pitti: I am adding a concept of "manual" devices devices to NM which it knows about and assumes that are always online (but doesn't touch)
<mdz> pitti: on desktops, it's usually the right thing, and folks who are doing something funny can remove it :-)
<pitti> mdz: right, I wasn't complaining
<Mithrandir> so if you have interfaces which are on some kind of manual, NM won't touch them.
<pitti> mdz: well, I'd correct it to 'on laptops it's the right thing', but anyway
<mdz> but in this case, we know that it's not the right thing because we're installing a server
<mdz> ogra: are you here?
<tkamppeter> Keybuk, I think following the LSB wording and not only the test suite is important, as people who make distribution-independent packages, read the specs and do not analyse the source of the test suite.
<pitti> but at this time I guess it's too late to install it on laptops only
<mdz> it doesn't seem that ogra is here, so I suppose we'll move on
<mdz> (pitti) Confirm decision about apport in final release.
<cjwatson> tkamppeter: I think it's a bug, but not a release-critical one
<Keybuk> tkamppeter: *shrug* nobody produces distribution-independent packages and nobody like that cares about the LSB
<Keybuk> tkamppeter: for the first point, the LSB mandates RPM not DEB :p
<mdz> pitti: the consensus seemed clear on the mailing list; what's the question?
<cjwatson> Keybuk: (tkamppeter does, for printing)
<pitti> mdz: right, just getting a bunch of 'ok' from folks like bdmurray who didn't report back on the ML
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 20:00 UTC: Forum Council
<tkamppeter> Yes, that is true, cjwatson, perhaps I am the first user of the LSB?
<mdz> pitti: you have the floor :-)
<asac> pitti: you have my ok :)
<pitti> bdmurray: are you fine with disabling crash reports by default, only keep it on the live CD?
<pitti> and asac?
<bdmurray> pitti: yes
<pitti> ah, asac beat me to it
<pitti> great, I'm done then, thanks
<mdz> tkamppeter: you may be the first to rely on this feature and notice it...I assume you know the right people to talk to at FSG about this issue :-)
<mdz> ok, that's the end of the agenda
<mdz> friday and monday are holidays in the UK, so some of us may not be online much
<doko> what about demoting libstdc++5 and ia32-libs?
<Mithrandir> doko: please. :-)
<mdz> Mithrandir: when are you back at work?
<tkamppeter> Yes, I have already reported on the lsb-discuss mailing list of the Linux Foundation that there are these issues with sh.
<pitti> demoting++
<doko> ok, doing that
<Riddell> any progress on having more people to admin NEW queue?
<pitti> doko: i. e. you'll unseed this?
<doko> pitti: yes
<Mithrandir> mdz: Tuesday, but I'll look at IRC for freeze exceptions, etc at least daily.
<pitti> doko: great, ping me, I'll care for the demotion
<asac> doko: there are some that use upstream firefox ... though i don't care maybe they want it.
<mdz> Mithrandir: who is your backup while you are away?
<doko> asac: it's still available in universe
<pitti> asac: they have to manually install it anyway
<Mithrandir> mdz: AIUI, most of the distro team is away for Easter already, so nobody with the access rights is around.
<pitti> asac: it would make a difference if we shipped it in -desktop, or on the CDs, but we don't
<cjwatson> Riddell: there were four items in NEW last I looked
<cjwatson> I'm not concerned
<asac> doko: pitti fine
<cjwatson> (I realise three of them are yours)
<mdz> Mithrandir: that's going to put us in a bit of a crunch for RC, I think
<pitti> yes, I spent a fair amount of time on source new last week
<cjwatson> I am available although not on a much more regular basis than Mithrandir
<mdz> RS/ES/LT/England/AU/DK/NO are mentioned as having holidays
<Mithrandir> hm, not .de?
<kwwii> and DE
<seb128> I'll be around and reading mail every now and then if anything is required
<mdz> kwwii,Mithrandir: not on the wiki
<pitti> see the copious warthogs mails
<seb128> FR as well
<mdz> but it seems so, yes
<doko> I'll be skiing, so not reading email
<Mithrandir> seb128: you don't have access to lithium, do you?
<seb128> Mithrandir: not that I know, no
<seb128> Mithrandir: nop
<mdz> Mithrandir: given that we still have bugs to fix, and that most folks won't be working until Tuesday, it seems unlikely that we'll be able to start building candidates on schedule, don't you think?
<doko> Mithrandir: can I remove the milestone from bug 88486 ?
<ubotu> Malone bug 88486 in openoffice.org "impress hangs when opening Canonical template presentation [regression from edgy] " [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88486
<Mithrandir> doko: yes, I think that makes sense.
<cjwatson> (rtg had to go due to battery)
<Mithrandir> mdz: I'd like to see if we can compress it and evaluate on Tuesday afternoon or Wednesday whether we need to postpone it one day.
<mdz> it sounds like there is a day's worth of bugs to fix, so wednesday would be the earliest to start
<mdz> whereas the schedule calls for it to start Monday
<seb128> mdz: GNOME 2.18.1 tarball will be rolled on monday and tuesday ...
<seb128> tarballs
<mdz> seb128: that's not ideal either
<seb128> well, nothing we can change there
* ogra waves
<mdz> seb128: we could do them as -updates or selectively
<seb128> mdz: I think that would be a mistake
<seb128> we would drop one month of bug fix
<mdz> seb128: we could delay the release
<seb128> hum?
<ogra> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 11 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 20:00: Forum Council
<cjwatson> mdz: ... you mean the release candidate?
<seb128> mdz: there is 10 days between GNOME 2.18.1 and 7.04, you think that's not enough?
<mdz> seb128: I count 9, and about 3 days of that are supposed to be RC testing :-)
<cjwatson> can anyone reproduce bug 96958?
<ubotu> Malone bug 96958 in ubiquity "[feisty]  Kubuntu timezone page broken" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96958
<pitti> seb128: will there be any intrusive soname bumps and the like, anything that could screw and delay buildds/archive consistency?
<mdz> cjwatson: I meant the release, but only half seriously
<Riddell> cjwatson: I've only heard of it from heno on virtual box as I say
<seb128> pitti: no, GNOME 2.18.1 is only bug fix, stable branch has still UI, string, API, ABI, etc freezes
<mdz> seb128: I think we should try to avoid this conflict for feisty+1, it puts unnecessary pressure on you for packaging, and on all of us for CD testing
<ogra> err, did you guys reschedule the meeting ? its supposed to start now, no ?
<Mithrandir> mdz: I'm fine with delaying the RC, but not release, I believe we can get a good release out
<asac> ogra: schedule is wrong ... i almost fell for it as well.
<seb128> ogra: 15UTC was 1 hour ago
<heno> Riddell, cjwatson: virtual box is still a bit raw on graphics. Most likely the problem
<Riddell> ogra: like last week it was rescheduled by an hour, poke Keybuk to tell fridge to update
<ogra> seb128, my evo says 18:00 CEST
<ogra> which is exactly now
<Keybuk> Riddell: how do I tell fridge?
<Keybuk> ogra: your evo is wrong
<ogra> seb128, and the fridge seems to agree
<seb128> ogra: Keybuk's mail said 15UTC
<mdz> ogra: the distro team calendar is authoritative
<Riddell> Keybuk: #ubuntu-marketing, fridge-devel@
<dholbach> Keybuk: fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<ogra> gah
<pitti> mdz: that's even more wrong
<Keybuk> ogra: I mailed you explictitly, with the reminder, with the fact the time was different in capitals
<mdz> pitti: it's correct here
<Keybuk> Riddell: well voluntold, could you let them know :)
<pitti> mdz: it says 8 am for me
<ogra> please keep the fridge updated ...
<Riddell> nixternal: fancy editing fridge calendar?
<cjwatson> please don't use the fridge for this
<seb128> mdz: I'm confident GNOME 2.18.1 will be no problem, it's the same timing every time, but right, an extra week next time could be nice
<nixternal> Riddell: sure!
<cjwatson> -> distro team + ogra anyway. it's useful for others
<mdz> seb128: yes, I know.  we've managed in the past and we will manage this time also
<nixternal> meeting, date, time, agenda?
<mdz> seb128: but I think it would be better to have a little more time
<Riddell> nixternal: devel team meetings back an hour (UTC)
<seb128> mdz: agreed
<ogra> cjwatson, i use the fridge for all dates ... why must this one differ ?
<cjwatson> ogra: if you're using a calendar which is consistently not updated for this meeting, you should use something else and deal ...
<ogra> :/
<cjwatson> it is clearly mailed out to everyone, and blaming the calendar isn't good
<Keybuk> Til managed to turn up on time
<Keybuk> +l
<mdz> ogra: we don't even have the ability to change the fridge calendar; it's run by a different team and sometimes lags
<mdz> (directly)
<ogra> i know
<Keybuk> and we change the times of this meeting, and whether they even happen, regularly
<mdz> ok, we're over time
<mdz> is there any other business for the meeting?
<Keybuk> I could cc fridge-devel on the reminders the day before, but I suspect they'd get sick of that
<ogra> but other teams manage it as well ... having a centralized calendar seems pointless if its not used
<pitti> the distro team google calendar would be nice, if that wouldn't fail so hideously on time zones
<mdz> quibbling about meeting times ->elsewhere
<mdz> meeting adjourned
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<pitti> thanks everyone
<mvo> thanks
<pitti> and happy bug squashing
<mdz> and enjoy your holidays!
<kwwii> thanks all
<nixternal> what day and time do you guys want the devel team meeting to be posted on the Fridge?
<pitti> happy easter!
<doko> bye
<asac> thanks ... nice holidays everyone
<ogra> grmbl,
* mvo enjoys
<ogra> yes i had other stuff
<nixternal> I have the Fridge open and ready to add :)
<ogra> :/
<mdz> nixternal: it's moved back 1 hour due to DST
<seb128> thanks
<cjwatson> nixternal: alternates between 1500 UTC and 2000 UTC on Thursdays
<nixternal> cjwatson: 1500 starting next Thursday then?
<nixternal> or 2000?
<Riddell> 20:00
<cjwatson> well, it was 1500 today, which should be a clue ;-)
<nixternal> rock on!
<nixternal> cjwatson: gahah, damn I am sl o o o w
<nixternal> ;P
<nixternal> I am not a noob
<nixternal> is there a dev team agenda wiki page?
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DevelTeamMeeting2007XXXX for date
<nixternal> rock on
<ogra> mdz, so you didnt discuss bug 100021 ?
<ubotu> Malone bug 100021 in ltsp "[Feisty]  LTSP fails on multi-homed server due to network manager touching predefined static interfaces" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/100021
<cjwatson> ogra: we tried, but you weren't there ... see scrollback/logs
<ogra> yeah, just reading
* ogra explicitly set an alert on that dumb wrong date in evo :/
<nixternal> OK, I have the 12th (20:00) and the 19th (15:00) setup for you all
<nixnoob1> so herd6 is cancelled?
<cjwatson> nixternal: thanks
<cjwatson> nixnoob1: yes
<nixternal> no problem
<cjwatson> (See ubuntu-devel-announce where this was announced)
<nixnoob1> yea rt61 is supposed to work buti think wpa doesnt work
<nixnoob1> i have rt61 also
<nixnoob1> i cant even boot he beta live cd so i cant test it
<nixnoob1> yes slimey
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: Development Team | 12 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<ogra> mdz, the bug is well known and i discussed it with Mithrandir various times before it was filesd as a bug ... thats why the report is only two weeks old, what was important from my POV was that it gets milestoned, which didnt happen even though i requested it
<ogra> thats why i brought it up ...
<cjwatson> the correct way to get a bug milestoned is not to request it, but just to do it
<ogra> thats what i did
<cjwatson> it can and will be unmilestoned if necessary
<ogra> LP only sets a requested tag
<ogra> and a release manager needs to approve
<cjwatson> no, you used the wrong widget
<cjwatson> actually, no, you appear to have used the right one, the "Milestone" combo box
<cjwatson> that does not need release manager approval
<ogra> hmm
<cjwatson> you're thinking of the "target to release" thing, which should only be used for stable releases
<ogra> but it doesnt show up on the milestone list
<ogra> oh, it does now
<ogra> it didnt this morning ...
<ogra> then i'm all set ...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 12 Apr 20:00 UTC: Development Team | 12 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 20:00 UTC: Forum Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-06
<gsuveg> re
<gsuveg> anybody can set my e-mail alias on ubunto.com ?
<gnomefreak> gsuveg: within a week after getting membership you should have it
<gsuveg> gnomefreak, im over the one week
<gnomefreak> send an email to yourlpid@ubuntu.com  it should go to your email you used for launchpad
<gsuveg> gnomefreak, thanks a lot
<gnomefreak> yw
<gsuveg> dont works
<gsuveg> im tested it
<gnomefreak> gsuveg: check back with someone on hte CC monday/tuesday
<gnomefreak> its a holiday weekend
<gsuveg> ok. not problem
<gnomefreak> give me a minute
<gsuveg> gnomefreak, dont kill me
<gnomefreak> not going to :)
<gsuveg> im test with other than gmail, and works
<gsuveg> gnomefreak, sry. i wish you a good weekend  ;)
<gnomefreak> gsuveg: you too
<gnomefreak> .win 10
<Seveas> .lose 8
<gsuveg> bye
<gnomefreak> :(
<gsuveg> what is this game?
<gnomefreak> gsuveg: i meant to type /win 10 not .win 10 to switch windows
<gsuveg> ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-07
<tinux99> akhirnya!!!
<tinux99> aku emuin chat room ini
<tinux99> hey everbody
<tinux99> i would need some help bout ubuntu and linux
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 10 Apr 15:00: Technical Board | 11 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 15:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 15:00: Development Team | 12 Apr 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 15:00: Forum Council
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-bb *!*@d205-250-245-108.bchsia.telus.net *!*@88.232.*!##unavailable]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-b *!*@unaffiliated/wolferine]  by ChanServ
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-08
<willy> Ciao a tutti
<effraie__> effraie__
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 10 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 11 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 22:00: MOTU | 12 Apr 22:00: Development Team | 12 Apr 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Apr 22:00: Forum Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-01
<Henry> how to install the gcc
<emgent> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 02 Apr 21:00: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00: Server Team | 10 Apr 20:00: Security Team meeting | 16 Apr 21:00: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00: Server Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-02
<calc> hi
<cjwatson> good morning
<TheMuso> Greetings all.
 * asac waves
<ArneGoetje> hi
<evand> hi
<bryce> heya
<calc> openoffice.org 2.4.0-3ubuntu1 is in hardy now :)
<calc> waiting on translate-toolkit to be sync'd
<james_w> morning all
<ogra_cmpc_> *yawn*
<ogra_cmpc_> morning
<doko> good morning
 * cjwatson counts on his fingers
<cjwatson> I think that's everyone
<cjwatson> so good morning everyone; hope you all had a good week while I was on holiday
<slangasek> morning :)
<cjwatson> this week, I largely want to do a checkup to ensure that we're on track for release, as there isn't all that long to go
<cjwatson> though before we start, a quick reminder: please can everyone have another look at Daniel's sponsoring overview and make sure you're up to date there
<cjwatson> (I have a few items myself)
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.04 is slightly alarmingly long
 * calc has quite a few bugs to work on still but didn't milestone them
<slangasek> yes; even discounting the bugs that are already fix-released
<cjwatson> I'm going to go through and make a few assignments there, so that the page sorts by person better
<cjwatson> (even for cases where it's obvious due to package)
 * calc wishes the list had source packages listed
<TheMuso> calc: Same here. Filtering out fix released bugs would also be nice.
<calc> TheMuso: yea
<cjwatson> asac: there are a lot of firefox bugs on that list; are you on top of them?
<slangasek> it does seem that people are using the milestone for "everything I'm planning to work on between now and the release", rather than "bugs that are critical to resolve for 8.04" - indeed, I've even seen people make comments in the bugs to this effect when setting the milestone :)  Don't forget that we also have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs as a pool of release-nominated bugs, it would be helpful if bugs that are targets
<asac> cjwatson: i use milestones to keep everything on radar that would be nice to still fix. most important ones should be done already or fix committed though
<calc> slangasek: i just moved all of my bugs up to critical instead of milestoning them since i knew that might give you a heart attack ;-)
<slangasek> asac: can "would be nice" bugs be moved to release nominations + assigned to you?  that leaves them somewhere trackable, while helping to make it clear which bugs are to be considered blockers
<calc> by the way as far as release-nominated bugs go, is there a way to see all bugs release-nominated or not?
<calc> eg if a bug is nominated for eg dapper but closed in hardy it doesn't appear in the current bug list
<slangasek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/$release/+nominations
<asac> slangasek: i am lame in using launchpad. i will go through the list and move things that are unlikely to get fixed in time to .1
<asac> is that ok?
<calc> slangasek: i meant more of is there a way to see all bugs open on a particular package regardless of where they are open
<asac> slangasek: in general everything that is importance "high" or more is a blocker i'd consider bad to push forward - if that info helps you
<slangasek> asac: please use release nominations instead of the milestones for bugs that are not obviously blockers for that milestone; it's more practical for release management purposes to escalate bugs from the pool of release-targetted bugs than to work out whether a given bug that's been targetted is a blocker for a non-obvious reason
<slangasek> asac: do you know about https://bugs.launchpad.net/~asac/+assignedbugs, btw?
<slangasek> calc: I don't know of anything along those lines, sorry
<calc> slangasek: ok
<cjwatson> so the milestone list is a bit of a wash (I should have had a look before the meeting and done assignments!), but please also have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs, which is a bit more digestible
<cjwatson> asac: bug 162609: as far as hardy's concerned, does that just need ubufox's dependency on apturl to be made versioned?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 162609 in ubufox "plugin finder wizard and apturl don't use the same http proxy" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162609
<asac> cjwatson: i think thats already fixed
<asac> cjwatson: ill check that
<cjwatson> evand: there are still quite a few ubiquity bugs in /ubuntu/hardy/+bugs; do we need to draft in some help?
<cjwatson> asac: the dependency isn't versioned in the current archive (I checked first)
<evand> hrm
<evand> If we have the help available, it's welcome.  I think I can handle the major bugs though (tzmap remaining issues, miscalculation on size check, neverending ok button when resizing, preseeding keymap not working in ubiquity)
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: I noticed a couple of scim bugs on /ubuntu/hardy/+bugs. Do we dodge bug 66104 by using scim-bridge? Is any help needed on bug 199592?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 66104 in scim "[Gutsy] scim: input freezes in various applications under XIM mode" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/66104
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 199592 in scim-bridge "scim-bridge crashed with SIGSEGV in scim::Module::unload()" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199592
<doko> I uploaded a XIM fix yesterday (but apparently this was for something seen for the java awt bindings)
<evand> and I think we're quite close on the accessibility issues with ubiquity
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: for 66104, yes, we dodge that with scim-bridge... although libX11 has been patched recently... still need to confirm if the bug is now really fixed or not.
<bryce> looks like most of the remaining milestoned xorg bugs are just "bug clots", where someone posted a generic sounding symptom and everyone with any issue sounding vaguely similar piled on.  I've been keeping an eye on them for a while to see if useful info like backtraces or whatever come up, but guess not.  They are too chaotic to be milestoned really.  I'll take another look and probably ask people to file new bugs if their iss
<bryce> ues still exist.
<slangasek> bryce: in that case, should/could the bugs be un-milestoned?
<TheMuso> evand: I am happy to start early tomorrow if it means we can squash the a11y issues more easily.
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: for 199592, I still need some help to find out what's going on. The crash happens only once after a new install and then never again...
<evand> bryce: have you seen bug 194848 yet?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 194848 in xorg-server "hardy alpha 5 closes session after choose keyboard (dup-of: 184651)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194848
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 184651 in xorg-server "Crash when starting gnome-settings-daemon" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184651
<doko> the scim-bridge SIGSEGV still needs to be reproduced
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: and reportedly for a new user account... so maybe something is wrong with the ~/.scim directory or so...
<bryce> slangasek: yup, or even just closed as fixed, if the original issue was seen to be fixed.
<evand> TheMuso: ok, I'll work on that fix now.  Got caught up in other bugs.
<bryce> evand: no I hadn't
<bryce> oh wait, that's a dupe of 184651
<TheMuso> evand: Ok whenever, but it still doesn't help solve the orca zombification issues...
<evand> ah, I forgot about that :/
<cjwatson> doko: could you help out with the segv? there's what appears to be a partial repro recipe in the bug
<bryce> evand: ok hadn't seen that one either.  I can talk to timo about it; sounds like he already looked into it
<slangasek> bryce: if they shouldn't actually be blockers, it's helpful to unmilestone them in the event that there's something in the bug description (or metadata in the forums...) that causes people to congregate around those bugs
<evand> ok
<cjwatson> bryce: 184651 definitely needs to be a blocker due to the installer impact
<doko> cjwatson: yes
<slangasek> otherwise they have a tendency to be reopened and show up on the milestone list :)
<cjwatson> doko: thanks
<bryce> evand: there were a couple gnome-settings-daemon crashes I'd been working on earlier, but this one looks unrelated (Xkb rather than Xrandr).  But I'll look into it.
<bryce> slangasek: good idea
<evand> much appreciated
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: have you seen bug 153521? (it's a rather confused bug, as Steve has pointed out ...)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153521 in fontconfig "fonts are blurred with subpixel rendering" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153521
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: yes, I've seen that...
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: however, the fonts blurring is expected IMHO, because of subpixel redering being turned on... that's what it's all about, isn't it?
<ogra_cmpc_> err
<ogra_cmpc_> isnt that depending on your output ?
<ogra_cmpc_> s/output/output device/
<slangasek> ArneGoetje: unfortunately since I don't have a 150 dpi display, I've been unable to figure out whether it's an aesthetic question, or a real problem with the display
<slangasek> s/display$/rendering/
<slangasek> if the fonts are really being rendered as we want them to be, then "wontfix" may be appropriate anyway
<ArneGoetje> slangasek: you will get that effect on any display with a lower dpi setting.
<slangasek> ArneGoetje: what's "lower dpi" here?
<ogra_cmpc_> as i learned it, subpixel rendering will look blurry on tubes but make LCDs more crisp
<ArneGoetje> slangasek: our default setting is to turn that feature off. if the user want's it he can turn it on by himself.
<slangasek> ArneGoetje: er, no?
<slangasek> our default setting is that subpixel smoothing is on for LCDs, I thought?
<ArneGoetje> slangasek: not on my machine... it uses greyscale by default
<doko> hmm, these screenshots are neither gnomish or kdeish
<ArneGoetje> slangasek: our default dpi setting is 96dpi as opposed to highend displays with >150dpi
<slangasek> ok, confirmed with a blank account, subpixel rendering isn't on by default
<slangasek> at least according to System -> Preferences -> Appearance -> fonts
<ArneGoetje> slangasek: yes, that's what I mean.
<slangasek> ArneGoetje: "our default dpi setting" - so this is still being overridden somewhere in the desktop, rather than using the real dpi value?
<ArneGoetje> slangasek: and my recent fontconfig patch will enforce the same setting on the whole system by default.
<slangasek> I mean, that would explain why someone with a 150 dpi display would consider all fonts <= 12pt to be "small"...
<ogra_cmpc_> slangasek, xdpyinfo |grep dots
<ArneGoetje> slangasek: System -> Preferences -> Appearance -> fonts
<ogra_cmpc_> check yourself :)
<bryce> slangasek: once someone has nominated a bug for a release, is there a way to un-nominate it?  I see that long long ago someone nominated bug 34590, but it's a wishlist for DRI on some ancient card that's probably never going to get solved.  It seems to have gotten stuck in "nomination hell" and keeps getting bumped forward releases.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 34590 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "DRI not Automatically Enabled for ATI Rage Mobility P/M - Mach64" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/34590
<slangasek> ogra_cmpc_: er, that only tells me what the X server thinks, not what fontconfig et al. think
<ogra_cmpc_> for me that reports an odd value iof 96x77 px
<slangasek> bryce: there's a hackish way to un-target, yes; remind me about that after the meeting?
<ogra_cmpc_> fontconfoig is supposed to use what X offers it i though
<bryce> ok will do
<cjwatson> slangasek: can you remind me of the rune for that? I encountered another bug that could do with untargetting last night
<slangasek> cjwatson: it involves marking the bug as either 'invalid' or 'wontfix' (don't remember which) on the release task
<cjwatson> ugh! does it then come back somewhere else?
<ArneGoetje> I'm not how fontconfig is involved in the dpi game though...
<slangasek> which then lets you track it again outside the release, yes :)
<cjwatson> wow, you weren't kidding
<bryce> aha, wontfix does it
<Hobbsee> slangasek: that doesn't actually remove the nomination, does it?
<cjwatson> ok, the last thing I wanted people to glance through was http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/qa-hardy-list-archive/sort-by-package/platform-buglist.html
<cjwatson> this is a *lot* better than it was before I went on holiday
<asac> i think i know why i tried to not use the confusing nomination feature ;)
<cjwatson> if there's anything there that shouldn't be for hardy, please remove the 'qa-hardy-platform' tag from the bug (and explain why in a comment) and it'll go away
<slangasek> asac: tsss :)
<slangasek> Hobbsee: the nomination doesn't disappear entirely, but since it's "wontfix"ed it falls off any relevant lists
<Hobbsee> ah right
<slangasek> Hobbsee: while also letting you track it again outside the release stream
<asac> (the flash crashers on that qa list are not in my hands btw)
<Hobbsee> yup
<cjwatson> asac: are they in anyone's hands?
<ogra_cmpc_> adobes ?
<cjwatson> ogra_cmpc_: gnash, dude
<ogra_cmpc_> oops
 * ogra_cmpc_ hides his sleepy head
<cjwatson> oh, maybe not all gnash
<cjwatson> there are some libflashplayer.so-related bugs, maybe that's what asac was referring to
<asac> yeah sorry ... that comment was about adobe flash
<slangasek> hmm, maybe one of those is the bug that's currently preventing me from watching April Fool's videos, perhaps I should look and claim it ;)
<asac> slangasek: does it crash?
<ogra_cmpc_> if the joke isnt that there is no video behind theselinks indeed :)
<asac> lol
<slangasek> asac: it doesn't even show up in about:plugins (64-bit w/ nspluginwrapper)
<cjwatson> ok, sorry ogra
<ogra_cmpc_> cjwatson, nm
<cjwatson> ok, any other business beyond bug lists? I'm going to continue looking through those and assigning
<asac> slangasek: *cough*
<slangasek> other business - yes
<slangasek> before everybody scatters, I'd like to highlight bug #210607
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210607 in tzdata "Sydney timezone is wrong when set by tzselect, right when set by $TZ (dup-of: 209429)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210607
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 209429 in tzdata "/etc/timezone does not exist" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/209429
<calc> bug 209783 needs syncing asap also :)
<ogra_cmpc_> erm, btw these flash bugs are a year old
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 209783 in translate-toolkit "UVF exception / sync request for translate-toolkit" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/209783
<bryce> (bug 197673 is my top priority but have made good progress on it of late and hope to have it closed soonish)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 197673 in gnome-control-center "gnome-display-properties should revert change automatically if not acknowledged" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197673
<asac> slangasek: can you check if there is a libflashplayer-alternative.so setup in /usr/lib/xulrunner-addons/plugins?
<slangasek> er, I mean bug #209429. it's been reasonably unmilestoned because it's not reproducible, but it's possible that this affects many more systems than are currently reporting it because you only notice it when the rules for your TZ change
<TheMuso> slangasek: I had no problem on my hardy systems over the weekend when us Sydneysiders were previously supposed to change...
<slangasek> so currently Australia is complaining, but in a few months it'll be some other country, etc. - please check your own systems to verify whether you have an /etc/timezone file
<TheMuso> I'll keep an eye out for this weekend however, when are are changing.
<slangasek> and if you don't, please talk to me so that we can try to ferret out the common thread among the affected systems
 * asac has /etc/timezone
<doko> bryce: will there be change with the compiz blacklisting of ati cards?
<james_w> me too
<cjwatson> slangasek: (209783 is in your/release-team's court again, I think)
<calc> i have one
<bryce> doko, not sure; I'm looking at that one again now
 * ogra_cmpc_ too ( on last night classmate image as well as on the installed one that did the DST change fine)
<slangasek> cjwatson: correct, next on my todo list
<cjwatson> ok
<calc> of course i might have a timezone file because i was messing with it when gnome clock decided to go insane a while back
<slangasek> asac: nope, no /usr/lib/xulrunner-addons/plugins/libflashplayer-alternative.so - so this is the bug, I guess? :)
<bryce> doko, looks like there is a patch; it's up to the compiz folks but I'd guess this to be a high priority for hardy
<slangasek> calc: right... :)
<calc> slangasek: has anyone verified if this problem exists just on upgrades, etc?
<bryce> doko, aha, the compiz folks have already committed it to bzr, so yeah looks like it's on the path to be included already
<asac> slangasek: sorry, its flashplugin-alternative.so
<calc> ah it looks like it is hard problem to track down
<ogra_cmpc_> bryce, any idea about the status of the geode breakage ?
<slangasek> calc: it's really not "verified" at all at this point, unfortunately - the users who are seeing the bug upgraded from a previous release, but we don't know yet what might have happened in between to cause the file to go missing
<calc> oh btw i want to let everyone know about this: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeGoals/XDGConfigFolders ;-)
<bryce> ogra_cmpc_: wha?  geode is broke too?
<calc> slangasek: ah ok
 * slangasek runs far away from XDGConfigFolders
<ogra_cmpc_> bryce, well, the general amd driver breakage
<bryce> ogra_cmpc_: no, we just did a new upload for them (still called -ati) the other week, I hadn't heard anything of problems
<ogra_cmpc_> ati ?
<bryce> ogra_cmpc_: they plan for another release soon.
<bryce> er, -amd, sorry
 * cjwatson joins slangasek in running away; I think that's a horrible meme we shouldn't assist
<calc> basedir FTW! >:-)
<ogra_cmpc_> ah :)
<bryce> ETOOMANYDRIVERS
<ogra_cmpc_> bryce, great, i just noticed that debian refused to add the fixes needed in xserver-xorg
<cjwatson> (upstreams can do what they like, but distros moving stuff like that around is bad mojo)
<calc> the main problem (i think?) is migrating prefs/data
<slangasek> asac: oh, haha, I have that file, which points at the alternative, which points to gnash which isn't installed :)
<bryce> the -amd -> -geode rename is going to save me so many typos ;-)
<asac> slangasek: hmm
<slangasek> asac: so that may be a gnash bug for failing to clear the alternative?
<ogra_cmpc_> heh :)
<calc> cjwatson: yea we shouldn't move it ourselves that would be a large amount of work for little gain
<asac> slangasek: yes. though i think we --remove-all when no alternative is left
<cjwatson> I think GNOME are wasting their time too, but hey ;-)
<cjwatson> .cache is a decent enough idea, but not the rest IMAO
<slangasek> asac: but there is an alternative left, I have flashplugin-nonfree installed
<slangasek> asac: but the symlink is pointing wrong
<asac> slangasek: is that alternative set to manual mode?
<slangasek> asac: yes
<asac> slangasek: how old is your install?
<slangasek> asac: I don't /think/ it was set by me...
<slangasek> asac: originated as gutsy prerelease
<asac> slangasek: if you --remove the last alternative the alternative ends up in manual mode (no idea if that is a bug)
<slangasek> erm
<asac> i think really old packages didn't do --remove-all in that case
<asac> but gnash does it from what i can see ... lets llok at flashplugin-nonfree
<slangasek> I don't think packages are *supposed* to do --remove-all
<slangasek> this is not a bug I've ever heard of before in u-a
<slangasek> and doesn't match the documentation of --remove in the manpage
<slangasek> anyway, my flash curiosities needn't be fodder for #u-meeting
<cjwatson> I was about to say, we're at time and I need more coffee. :)
<asac> slangasek: ;)
<cjwatson> looks like other business has mostly dried up, anything else -> #ubuntu-devel; thanks all, adjourned
<ogra_cmpc_> thanks
<evand> thanks
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<asac> thank you!
<bryce> cjwatson: for next meeting's agenda can you talk about post-release LTS support tasks?
<bryce> thanks
<cjwatson> bryce: good idea
<james_w> thank you
<TheMuso> thanks
<calc> goodnight
<slangasek> thanks :)
<tjaalton> ogra_cmpc_: the patches that are needed for -amd are already in ubuntu, and debian has added them yesterday
<ogra_cmpc_> oh, great
<ogra_cmpc_> i had heard the debian maintainer didnt want to apply them at all
<ogra_cmpc_> good that he changed his mind
<tjaalton> he wanted to wait until it was merged upstream
<ogra_cmpc_> ah
<tjaalton> and now that most of the blockers for xserver 1.4 are fixed it, it can enter testing
<tjaalton> and not wait for 1.5
<ogra_cmpc_> right
<ogra_cmpc_> given that debian still has half a year or so for the proposed release i found that attitude a bit silly, but well ...
<tjaalton> heh
<tjaalton> well, q-funk didn't actually help there..
<slangasek> patches applied to which package?
<ogra_cmpc_> xserver-xorg
<tjaalton> kept pushing all the time and the maintainers got provoked
<ogra_cmpc_> a set of three patches was needed to make the amd driver work at all
<slangasek> ah, ok
<tjaalton> slangasek: yes, those have been in for some time now
<ogra_cmpc_> he accepted one of the three (which didnt help at all)
<slangasek> fwiw, I was confused by the references to "the debian maintainer", since xserver-xorg is team-maintained in Debian :)
<tjaalton> slangasek: also, I'd like to merge xorg-server with debian when the current version is released, since they've pulled stuff from the upstream 1.4-branch and us, so we could drop 10+ patches from our branch
<ogra_cmpc_> but yeah, q-funk has massive interest in getting that wor,k, his company lives from selling thin clients that all use geode
<slangasek> (... and telling me that they were provoked by q-funk also doesn't narrow it down much...)
<ogra_cmpc_> he couldnt use gutsy because of that breakage
<ogra_cmpc_> (or etch/lenny)
<slangasek> tjaalton: you can merge it however you like for intrepid, but don't look at me for a freeze exception for what amounts to a rebase ;)
<ogra_cmpc_> many people in the thin client world are angry with us (even its not our fault, its upstream breakage) because of that
<tjaalton> slangasek: ok, so I'll just pull the upstream fixes then?
<slangasek> tjaalton: yes, please
<tjaalton> will do
<ogra_cmpc_> we should probably not clutter the channel logs here btw and move over to -devel :)
<tjaalton> heh yeah
<tjaalton> if there's anything left :)
<ogra_cmpc_> if geode works i'm as happy as i can be :)
<tjaalton> I haven't seen q-funk complaining in weeks
<tjaalton> *for
<heno> hello
<Iulian> Hey!
<nand> hi
<heno> #startmeeting
 * ogasawara_ waves
<pedro_> hi hi
<heno> hm, no bot today?
<heno> anyway, welcome all!
<heno> jcastro: here?
<davmor2> sorry I'm late :)
<bdmurray> Hello!  Is it 1900?
<pedro_> bdmurray: i'm wondering the same...
<heno> arg!
<pedro_> probably that's why evolution didn't tell me anything
<davmor2> 19:07
<heno> why didn't anyone stop me? :)
<nand> oh yeah, we switched time
<heno> davmor2: but not UTC
<nand> now is 20 UTC, right?
<davmor2> ah
 * liw starts recruiting people to the Alliance Against DST
<heno> the meeting page clearly says UTC (and I wrote it ...)
<liw> so we already had the meeting an hour ago, right
<heno> no, it's an hour from now
<bdmurray> That's what I'd thought.
<pedro_> it's 18 UTC now
<heno> seeing that we're all here, shall we go ahead?
<liw> I'm fine with now
<ogasawara_> +1
<pedro_> yeah go for it
<heno> apologies to those who miss it and are reading this in logs ...
<heno> [TOPIC] New team member introduction: Chris Gregan, Mobile QA
<heno> everyone wave to cgregan!
<cgregan> Hello team
<liw> cgregan, hi
<pedro_> welcome cgregan!
<davmor2> I thought UTC was bst
<ogasawara_> hi cregan!
<Iulian> Hello cgregan
<heno> Chris has been keeping busy getting up to speed with the mobile team
<heno> He'll be doing bug management and testing on mobile
<davmor2> brave man well done :)
<pedro_> rock on!
<heno> cgregan: you can find QA team members in #ubuntu-bugs and #ubuntu-testing usually
<cgregan> heno: good to know...I will add them to my, growing, list of irc channels
<heno> great
<davmor2> cgregan: it only gets bigger :)
<heno> I don't see jcastro here just yet, so let's take topic #3 for now
<heno> [TOPIC] Test plan review for RC/Final
<heno> davmor2: has been updating the Xubuntu and KDE4 plans with nice graphics :)
<davmor2> I got a boat load to upload to the kde4 one once that is out of the way I'll start up-dating the others now we have nice layout :)
<heno> I'd like everyone to look over the test plans if you have a chance and fix obvious errors and out-of-dateness
<heno> davmor2: rock!
<cgregan> davmor2: Can you send link to plans?
<liw> cgregan, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases is that what you mean?
<cgregan> liw: perfect
<cgregan> thanks
<heno> cgregan comes from a backgound in mostly proprietary software QA
<davmor2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/XubuntuDesktop is likely to be the general layout making it easy to see what the desktop should look like and the apps we're describing also.
<heno> cgregan: I'd appreciate your take on these plans
<cgregan> heno: sure...I'll review and update the team
<liw> davmor2, awesome work
<davmor2> liw: the kde4 was the other layout but we agreed it was easier with images :)
<davmor2> kde4 is mostly text layout hightlighting things that are important
<davmor2> to many t's in highlighting :)
<heno> I think jcastro may have fallen victim to my scheduling gaffe :(
<bdmurray> Should have a test case for ubiquity-only?
<heno> let's cover the upstream bug topic now and I can have a phone call with him later
<heno> bdmurray: is it very different from Live -> ubiquity?
<heno> We should make sure both paths get tested indeed
<bdmurray> Only in terms of accessing it.
<davmor2> bdmurray: you can't really do that with ease because there are several versions of ubiquity each slightly different
<heno> and it's important to exercise both code paths
<heno> davmor2: but on a given CD is there much difference in running ubiquity with 'Install only' and Live -> Install?
<bdmurray> The installation process does not change but the amount of memory required for ubiquity only is much less.
<heno> I'm hesitant about adding a test case for every variation because we quickly get too many
<liw> heno, I was thinking the same thing
<heno> though this may be a valid case
<davmor2> heno: with you no I don't believe so only the differences that are there anyway.  that is that, Xubuntu pulls in the language packs, Kubuntu's is different in the way the map works  etc
<bdmurray> Perhaps checking with cjwatson or evand would be best then.
<heno> a stop-gat might be to ask people to add a tracker comment about which path they used
<heno> we generally have a fair number of people testing desktop i386 images at least - we should just make sure people use different methods
 * heno makes a note for subscription tracking
<davmor2> heno: I think it would be more prudent to stick ubiquity in it's own section at the top of each live cd case listing the fact that it can be accessed via the menu directly and any differences in the versions
<davmor2> that covers every aspect then
<heno> yep, people usually have 3 or so partitioning methods assigned on a given CD and should spread that over start paths
<heno> davmor2: can you add that?
<heno> bdmurray: thanks for pointing that out
<heno> [TOPIC] Upstreaming bugs; wiki guides and bugdays
<davmor2> I'll add it to the list :)  I can throw together some SS of it in action and then upload those as well it shouldn't be too hard.
<heno> I understand there were some mixed views of the value of the upstream linking yesterday
<bdmurray> By the way https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/Wubi isn't linked to on the main page.
<heno> bdmurray: it is at the bottom ;)
<heno> I want to refresh that landing page actually
<heno> it's not very inviting
<bdmurray> Oh, I was just looking at the top section.
<heno> It should be added, you are right
 * heno takes an action to tidy that page up
<bdmurray> heno: Do you know what the negative opinions are? I haven't heard them.
<davmor2> bdmurray: it's on the list we will probably lose winfoss
<bdmurray> davmor2: cool, thanks!
<pedro_> bdmurray: basically seb128 and i were talking that the bugday caused us more noise than anything
<pedro_> and it'd be nice if it happens during another time of the release process
<heno> I think the problem is that the upstreaming on gnome bugs was already quite good
<bdmurray> noise in what sense? more bugmail or something else?
<pedro_> yeah lot of bugmail
<heno> and it's difficult to improve on that for people with less experience
<pedro_> we already have a lot daily ;-)
<heno> I think some of the added links may not have been correct
<pedro_> yeah and then we have to correct them
<bdmurray> Okay, both of those points make sense to me.  Are the bug watches useful though?
<bdmurray> Or rather bug watches in general useful?
<heno> I'm also wondering if picking this low hanging fruit isn't really just sidestepping the issue
<heno> filing bugs upstream well is hard and requires insight into that upstream's bug landscape and culture
<heno> we should probably rather focus on packages with very few bugs filed/linked upstream
<heno> start fling/linking those and gaining the experience and connections
<bdmurray> I think there are 2 separate issues though. 1) filing bugs upstream and 2) linking bugs upstream.
<heno> bdmurray: you mean link bugs that someone else has already marked as an upstream issue?
<bdmurray> for point 2 I mean adding a bug watch for an existing upstream bug report
<heno> IMO when you look at a bug with a view to link it upstream you first search the upstream tracker and link if it's found and file if not
<bdmurray> While it still requires a fair bit of knowledge - it can require less than actually filing it upstream.
<heno> but both should be part of the same workflow right?
<heno> the difficult of filing upstream depends a bit on the cost of doing a bad job at it
<heno> IOW - how upset does upstream get if you file a poor bug or dupe?
<bdmurray> You said "filing bugs upstream well is hard".  I'm just saying that linking is different than filing and isn't as hard.
<bdmurray> So while they are part of the same workflow they have different degrees of difficulty.
<heno> If they are helpful in correcting you and helping you learn, then nothing is lost by trying, but if it pisses them off it's more tricky
<heno> this will depend on the upstream and our approach
<heno> bdmurray: I mostly agree. but how many of the linkable bugs are there? is it worth focusing on as an approach
<heno> ?
<heno> the number with links in the comments is one thing; the number that already exist upstream but nobody has pointed out is likely much larger
<heno> bdmurray: do you think we should do more 'upstreaming' bug days, or should we make it a component of bug days generally?
<bdmurray> heno: I'm still looking at the numbers as to how many linkable bugs there are.
<heno> btw, has everyone seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+upstreamreport ?
<bdmurray> I agree with pedro than now isn't really the right time in the development cycle.  It'd be best done after Hardy releases.
<heno> a view of how many bugs are filed/linked upstream by package
<heno> bdmurray: I agree, that's a good point
<heno> perhaps we should do some themes one looking for severe release blocking bugs and escalating those?
<bdmurray> I think identifying and documenting how to find the right upstream bug is best and then adding that as a component to bug days makes sense.
<heno> it would be good to get more eyes on the fresh bugs leading up to release
<heno> ok, cool
<heno> for now though - perhaps we can do a day looking at iso-testing bugs?
<bdmurray> In regards to bug days I think revisiting bugs w/o a package would be a good idea as there may be something critical hiding there.
<heno> yep
<bdmurray> That too would be good.
<heno> sounds like a plan
<heno> any other topic today?
<bdmurray> One thing
<bdmurray> Or 2 maybe
<jcastro> hi guys
<jcastro> sorry I am late, personal emergency
<davmor2> no but I would like to say that I'll add the ubiquity images to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/LiveCDInstall as it seems the most sensible place for it :)
<bdmurray> I've started a list of triaging specialities at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Contacts - please add yourself i you aren't already there.
<heno> jcastro: actually, we are early ...
<heno> jcastro: I'll phone you in a few minutes and catch you up
<jcastro> ok
<heno> Packages/Area of Specialty - bdmurrary - Everything :)
<bdmurray> geez! I didn't even write that.
<davmor2> heno: one thing also what is happening about the LP testing team?
<heno> the page looks good
<heno> ok, I think we're done
<heno> thanks everyone!
<cgregan> heno: is this the regular time each week?
<liw> cgregan, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings has the times
<pedro_> cgregan: the schedule is at wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<pedro_> jeje
<heno> cgregan: except we started an hour early by mistake this week ...
<heno> my mistake for the record
<cgregan> liw,pedro_, hino: thanks
<pedro_> you're welcome
<heno> indeed
<heno> google calendar is not helping though
<heno> #endmeeting
<jcastro> DST wrecks more ubuntu productivity!
<heno> (yeah I know there is not bot, but it's reflex now)
<stgraber_> heno: oh, I wondered why you were finishing the meeting :) So my schedule was right
<davmor2> stgraber_ indeed I thought I was late till I got here an hour early :)
<heno> we made very good time today though, finished just before start
<stgraber_> heno: anything important I missed ?
<liw> stgraber, I can e-mail you the channel log for the meeting, ifyou give me an e-mail address
<stgraber_> liw: stgraber@ubuntu.com
<heno> stgraber_: we looked at the test cases a bit
<heno> we will all look them over for up-to-dateness before RC
<stgraber_> heno: yes, I saw quite a lot of update on the wiki. I'll update the LTSP and Edubuntu ones soon
<liw> stgraber, sent
<stgraber_> liw: thanks
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<nxvl> @now
<nxvl> @schedule
<nxvl> ubotu: ping
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 02 2008, 19:20:27 - Next meeting: Server Team in 1 hour 39 minutes
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 02 Apr 21:00: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00: Server Team | 16 Apr 21:00: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00: Server Team
<nxvl> @schedule Lima
<ubotu> ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Lima: 02 Apr 16:00: Server Team | 09 Apr 16:00: Server Team | 16 Apr 16:00: Server Team | 23 Apr 16:00: Server Team | 30 Apr 16:00: Server Team
<Rinchen> ==> we're having some issues with the Fridge's event calendar which feeds this channel. Not all meetings may show up until it's fixed.
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 02 Apr 17:00: Server Team | 09 Apr 17:00: Server Team | 16 Apr 17:00: Server Team | 23 Apr 17:00: Server Team | 30 Apr 17:00: Server Team
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<zul> *cough*
<kirkland> *sneeze*
<nealmcb> *ahhhh*
<nijaba> aaatchaa
<sommer> hey all
<nealmcb> sommer: sounds like hay fever....
 * mathiaz waves and smiles :)
<zul> no its my coooold
<sommer> heh, I feel fine
<ajmitch> ah, it's that time of the week
<zul> hey ajmitch
<zul> i thought groundhog day was last week ;)
 * jdstrand waves
<soren> o/
<kirkland> [o]
<soren> kirkland: That's a new one :)
<kirkland> soren: muscles!
<mathiaz> all - right - let's get started
<soren> Oh, I thought it was a robotic kind of thing.
<owh> Waking up at 5am for a meeting - blah.
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<zul> yarr
<soren> No mootbot?
<owh> Nope
<mathiaz> hum... mootbot is still sleeping...
<owh> I feel the same way :)
<mathiaz> bon...
<soren> Well have to live without it.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
<mathiaz> Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<mathiaz> last week meeting logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080326
<mathiaz> owh: status action init script ?
<owh> Crap.
<owh> Yes. No action done. I'll wake up some and action it today.
<mathiaz> owh: great.
<owh> My intent is to add the init.d scripts to the existing bug and add that to the debian list.
<kirkland> mathiaz: I have something to add....
<owh> Only so others can have the benefit of them.
<owh> Bring it on.
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'm attending the Linux Summit in Austin, TX next week, and there's a track on LSB (Linux Standards Base) which is the ISO standard that describes the init scripts (among many other things)
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'll take some notes, and I'd like to use some of that to seed a discussion for what we can do for Ubuntu Server in that space, potentially as a UDS Prague topic
<mathiaz> kirkland: great
<owh> The more I hear about the future of the init scripts, the more I wonder if there is any point in pursuing our current solution.
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'll report back here either next week, or more probably the next with the highlights
<nealmcb> but knowing what it means for lsb compliance is important - thanks kirkland
<kirkland> owh: i definitely think there's value in pushing patches to debian
<mathiaz> owh: well - the futur of init scripts in ubuntu is probably going to upstart integration
<owh> Are there others that agree with kirkland?
<mathiaz> owh: I'd say to push current patches, but not develop new ones
<owh> Is it appropriate to vote on it?
<owh> I mean, I've done the work, but continuing is going to create work for others.
<mathiaz> owh: well - that's up to them to accept it or not
<mathiaz> owh: the patches are there , just send them
<owh> Will do.
<mathiaz> owh: and the debian maintainers will decide what they wanna do with it
<owh> Yup.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Wiki pages from help.ubuntu.com
<mathiaz> sommer: did you have a look at the samba wiki pages ?
<sommer> yep, I've started updating a few, but haven't gotten that far
<sommer> should have more time toward the end of the week though
<sommer> also created a page to link the others by category
<sommer> it's cruisen
<mathiaz> sommer: great
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review high priority bugs related to the Server Team.
<mathiaz> I haven't had time to compile such a list
<mathiaz> So anyone has seen of such show-stopper bugs ?
<sommer> we could focus no the one brought up last week
<sommer> the ldap boot issue
<mathiaz> sommer: I think zul and kirkland are working on it
<nijaba> Not a show stopper, but would be nice to see the MOTD bug fixed...
<mathiaz> nijaba: I think slangasek is assigned to it
<sommer> oh, that's cool then
<kirkland> mathiaz: i am working on it
<kirkland> mathiaz: i've not been able to precisely reproduce it yet
<kirkland> but i am actively multitasking on a vm right now on it ;-)
<nijaba> mathiaz: nope, ubuntu-server-team still is assigned to #159371
<mathiaz> nijaba: right
<soren> Do we assign bugs to the team?
<mathiaz> soren: no - I don't think it's a good idea
<soren> Me neither.
<mathiaz> soren: individual assigment may be better
<soren> YEah. Otherwise -- somewhat ironically -- noone will do it.
<nijaba> volunteer?
<owh> soren: I suppose subscribing a bug to the team makes us aware of it, but to actually fix it needs an individual.
<soren> owh: Right. That's what almost every other teams does.
<nealmcb> team effort - I'll do the first byte - a "#" !
<nealmcb> who's next?
<soren> IIRC the kernel team does it differently.
<mathiaz> nijaba: I'll make the upload
<nijaba> nealmcb: the debdiff is already there
<zul> soren: not really
<soren> I'll bitch and moan about it.
 * nijaba hugs mathiaz
<mathiaz> apart from the ldap bug, anything else ?
<mathiaz> I think the postgresql bug in the installer is fixed
<zul> there are some weird apcahe sigsegv when upgrading from gutsy->hardy on amd64 but Im not sure why nor have the hardware
<nijaba> there is a stupid bash_completion issue that kees and I stumbled upon
<soren> bug no.?
<mathiaz> nijaba: yes - I came across that one too
<zul> soren: #210569
<nijaba> bug #210013
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210013 in bash "bash-completion config replacement prompt on upgrade from gutsy to hardy" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210013
<mathiaz> nijaba: right - it's a problem with the new bash package and handling in ucf
<mathiaz> nijaba: we have the same issue with samba
<mathiaz> allright - that's all for high-priority bugs
<nijaba> also, there is a potential issue with iscsi (see last comment of Bug #192080) not sure soren has seen it.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 192080 in open-iscsi "shutdown fails.. nfs" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192080
<mathiaz> I'll try to compile a list with the bugs
<mathiaz> Or at least come up with a way to track them
<nealmcb> is there a report on bugs with lots of duplicates?
<soren> nijaba: Yeah, I've seen it.
<mathiaz> zul: did you go through some of the bug and milestone them ?
<nijaba> soren: good :)  I feel better now ;)
<mathiaz> nealmcb: not really - the qa team is marking these
<zul> mathiaz: I did some but I have to continue
<mathiaz> zul: great - marking bug for the next hardy milestone seems like the way to proceed to keep track of important profile
<mathiaz> s/profile/bug/
<zul> ill move it up my todo list
<mathiaz> talking about bug triagging, I'd like to mention an email sent by brian murray a few minutes ago
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Contacts
<mathiaz> I think we should put one of us as a contact for server related software
<owh> mathiaz: What about just the bug list email address?
<nijaba> mathiaz: do we need a dev for this?
<owh> That would mean more eyeballs.
<mathiaz> owh: which one do you refer to ? ubuntu-server or ubuntu-server-bugs ?
<mathiaz> nijaba: no necessarly
<owh> The latter mathiaz
<mathiaz> brian mentionned in his email:Our thought was it
<mathiaz> would be a useful guide of who talk to if you need help debugging a
<mathiaz> particular package or part of Ubuntu.
<owh> mathiaz: It means that those who are subscribed - arguably already in the bug business - see a request.
<mathiaz> owh: it's more about contacting someone in person
<owh> mathiaz: But I suspect that it will attract specific support requests from individuals, rather than triagers.
<nijaba> mathiaz: if nobody wants to do it /me raises his hand
<zul> mathiaz: so like a receptionist?
<mathiaz> owh: well - I don't know what would be the outcome
<nijaba> zul: right...
<zul> for the lack of a better term
<mathiaz> zul: probably - I don't exactly what brian is up to with this list
<owh> mathiaz: I figure that the ubuntu-server-bugs is monitored 24/7, individuals sleep.
<soren> They do?
<soren> Slackers.
<soren> :)
 * nijaba now knows that soren *never* sleeps
<owh> mathiaz: At the moment that address only gets automatic mail, so requests will stick out.
<mathiaz> But I think we should have a row that says "Server related software" talk to ...
<owh> soren: We're not talking about you :-)
<soren> Ah :)
<mathiaz> owh: yes - u-s-b is only set to receive bugs from LP
<owh> mathiaz: Talk to the ubuntu-server team.
<zul> soren: go back to sleep ;)
<nealmcb> we could refer them to #ubuntu-server
<owh> Yes, the would also work.
<kirkland> mathiaz: hmm, using a list would change the model from the way it's currently used in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Contacts
<soren> zul: I don't sleep. I idle or wait or something.
<owh> nealmcb: Our coverage is a little spotty though.
<mathiaz> kirkland: right
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm not disagreeing, just pointing it out
<mathiaz> owh: it seems that it's more about individuals
<mathiaz> owh: this is not for a 24/7 support line
<nijaba> as we said before: distributed responsability = no responsability
<nealmcb> owh: true, but less spotty than an individual irc nick
<zul> I guess if its too much for one person then nijaba and I could do it
<owh> nijaba: The flip side of that is that one individual gets overwhelmed.
<owh> nealmcb: Yes.
<nijaba> owh: we'll talk about it when it happens
<mathiaz> zul: well - I don't know if it really takes a lot of time
<owh> Is there a way to identify U-S team members in #U-S?
<zul> more coverage if people do it
<zul> er...two people do it
<mathiaz> I think someone should talk to bdmurray to know what he is up to
<owh> +1
<mathiaz> zul: I'm not sure that coverage is to point of this
<nijaba> mathiaz: you can action me on that point
<mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to talk to bdmurray to figure out what the BugSquad/Contacts wiki page is about
<mathiaz> Well - that's all I have for now
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any other Business
<mathiaz> somebody wants to add something ?
<owh> What happened to the iscsi testing stuff?
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage
<mathiaz> ^^ has a section about it
<nijaba> limesurvey: Kees found a few sec issue on it. so we'll be waiting for them to be fixed before being able to host it somewhere
 * kirkland waves
<kirkland> umm, is the meeting still happening?
<soren> I don't see it.
<soren> :)
<mathiaz> yes
<sommer> I'm still meeting, heh
<soren> Heh :)
<mathiaz> just wondering if someone wants to add  something
 * nealmcb cheers
<owh> One moment I'm in a room with 117 people, then 113 of them run away :)
<soren> nealmcb: Wow, you guys missed the coolest part of the meeting. It as awesome!
<owh> soren: Was it the bit where you woke up?
<nealmcb> you all finished up with the ibex?
<soren> owh: iz sekrit.
<ajmitch> no, the bit where soren promised to fix all outstanding bugs
<owh> nealmcb: Release is next week :)
<zul> you missed it bug #1 was fixed and there was much celebration
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<ajmitch> zul: thanks to jdong...
<soren> owh: Not funny.
<soren> :)
 * owh is sleep deprived. The alarm didn't go off as expected :(
<mathiaz> so - seems that none has anything else to add
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
<mathiaz> Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> next week, same time, same place ?
<owh> mathiaz: That can't be right, a meeting that finishes early?
<owh> mathiaz: WFM, Summer Time is over, now I'm UTC+8 :(
<nijaba> that's because soren fixed all the bugs...
<owh> :)
<owh> Cool, that gives me 14 minutes to complete my action point for this meeting :)
<dendrobates> bye.
<mathiaz> ok - next meeting: next week, same time, same place
<nealmcb> and soren fixed all the bugs because he wasn't interrupted on irc for 2 whole minutes!
<mathiaz> thanks all for participating
<mathiaz> and happy beta testing !
<nijaba> thanks mathiaz
<soren> nealmcb: Sounds like a dream :)
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<owh> Thanks for hosting our get together again mathiaz
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all
<owh> Later
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-03
<pitti> hello
<Riddell> good afternoon
<kwwii> hi
<seb128> hello
<MacSlow> Greetings
 * kwwii runs to get a coffee
<Keybuk> oh, yes
<Keybuk> right
<Keybuk> meeting
<Keybuk> *ahem*
<Keybuk> seb128: thanks ;)
<seb128> np ;-)
<Keybuk> mvo: there?
<Keybuk> mpt: awake? :)
<Keybuk> ok, the others can catch up
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-04-03
<Keybuk> I put together the agenda, pitti had a small bunch of agenda items - did I miss any from anyone else?
<pitti> Keybuk: there are a few outstanding action points from the last two meetings
<seb128> Keybuk: no but I'll have a quick one to add about the gvfs libarchive backend and whether we want to use it in hardy or not
<Keybuk> pitti: do you have them to hand, I didn't spot one?
<pitti> Keybuk: they shuold be in the 'action points' from last one
<mvo> Keybuk: yes
<mvo> sorry
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-03-27
 * mvo was in deep hacking mode
<pitti> ah, nautilus share transition is an important one to discuss IMHO
<Keybuk> oh yes
<Keybuk> sorry
<seb128> mvo: napping you mean? ;-)
<Keybuk>  * Sebastien to initiate a discussion about shares-admin -> nautilus-share
<Keybuk>  upgrade migration with slangasek on u-devel@
<Keybuk> seb128: how did that discussion go?
<mvo> seb128: isn't that the same ;)
<seb128> we discussed it on #ubuntu-devel
<seb128> no migration possible
<seb128> he doesn't think that's an issue and we will write about it in the upgrade notes
<Keybuk> what needs migrating?
<seb128> shres-admin does "normal" smb sharing
<seb128> adding things to smb.conf
<mvo> anything we can do in update-mangaer?
<seb128> nautilus-share uses net usershare
<seb128> and store things in /var/lib/samba/usershare
<seb128> basically slangasek said that migration is not possible
<seb128> because there is no way to know which shares have been added using shares-admin or in a other way
<Keybuk> if they have things in smb.conf, will they still work?
<seb128> and migrating those to useshare could be a security issues
<seb128> because other people will have access to thing they should not
<seb128> and there is no way to know which ones should be public or not
<seb128> Keybuk: yes
<seb128> Keybuk: we just remove the way to graphically edit this list
<Keybuk> so it only really affects people wanting to modify shares they had in the past?
<seb128> yes
<Keybuk> can they just install shares-admin?
<seb128> not now, I dropped the binary to not get duplication etc
<pitti> it's not a separate package
<Keybuk> ah right
<seb128> but I think I'll do a separate binary
<pitti> maybe we can just drop the .desktop file?
<Keybuk> so was steve happy with that?
<seb128> xubuntu users would like that too I think
<pitti> or use NotShowIn to hide it?
<seb128> pitti: either new binary package or drop nautilus integration and menu entry
<seb128> pitti: I suggested that to steve but he seemed to no see the point
<seb128> and I would prefer to not have to still maintain this code
<seb128> it's written in perl, ugly and upstream stopped maintaining it
<pitti> ok
<Keybuk> ah, that thing
<seb128> Keybuk: steve said he's happy to drop shares-admin and write something in the hardy notes about the old shares
<Keybuk> seb128: it sounds like you've had generally good feedback from your plans and no significant concerns raised?
<seb128> since we can't migrate anyway
<seb128> it's either we do that or never change
<seb128> and we don't want to never change so better to bite the bullet now
<Keybuk> *nods*
<seb128> Keybuk: right, I think everything is on track
<Keybuk> sounds like a no-brainer then :-)
<Keybuk>  * Sebastien to prepare theme change back to ubuntulooks
<Keybuk> I think I saw that get done?
<seb128> yes, kwwii and mvo took care of the theme changes
<Keybuk>  * Sebastien to rename the tracker menu item
<seb128> we had some random discussions on the list about menu changes, etc
<seb128> and I think we should better wait next cycle to do those cleanup, that's late now to break translations
<Keybuk> ok
 * pitti raises hand
<pitti> IMHO we should still fix at least "transmission"
<pitti> nobody knows what that means
<seb128> right, need to ping jdong about this one again
<seb128> they were working on updating or backporting changes
<seb128> and dunno why that has not been uploaded yet
<Keybuk> do we need a UDS session for menu changes?
<mdz> janebot noticed some of the menu inconsistencies
<mdz> pitti: agreed re: "transmission"
<seb128> well, I think menus changes discussions will lead nowhere
 * tedg thinks Keybuk will get the room to himself ;)
<seb128> we already had those
<kwwii> that kind of thing should really be done by usability people, or?
<seb128> I think we should think about change the menu to use gnome-main-menu or consider using the gnome-control-center shell and improve it
<seb128> s/change/changing
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> let's follow up on this later
<Keybuk>  * Ken to look into updating important bits of example-contents for Hardy, primarily release name
<seb128> mdz: right, we discussed it at previous meeting, there is also an inconsistancy about using or not the software names in the menus entries, that's being discussed upstream too
<kwwii> Keybuk: haven't gotten around to that yet
 * Keybuk still has nightmares about a street of shops all names "Shoes"
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk>  * (pitti) libgphoto gvfs: keep and fix, or ditch?
<pitti> oh, I added that before I discussed it with Seb, sorry
<pitti> I think we pretty much agreed on disabling it, since it's too buggy
<Keybuk> ah, what was the result of the discussion ooi
<Keybuk> what replaces it?
<pitti> any objections?
<pitti> Keybuk: f-spot-import
<pitti> similar to gthumb import from rpevious releases
<Keybuk> ah
<pitti> the libgphoto gvfs backend is cool, but it's not ready yet IMHO
<Keybuk> this is the thing where the camera appears accessible to the gnome vfs
<Keybuk> instead of needing to spawn a program to deal with it?
<pitti> it appears in places and computer:///, but clicking on photos doesn't work (missing eog gvfs integration), it's not automounted, and if it's mounted, it blocks f-spot
<seb128> it does mount your camera
<seb128> and you can use it as a standard mount
<Keybuk> ah, and doesn't get the photos into f-spot?
<pitti> Keybuk: no, you just get a file browser
<pitti> (which might not be what most people want to do with their camera, dunno)
<seb128> well, it makes you gphoto camera being seen as a removable disk
<Keybuk> got it
<pitti> so, I think it would be great to use in intrepid
<Keybuk> if you're both happy with disabling for now and reviewing later, that's fine
<seb128> you can copy directly from the folder if your app use gvfs
<pitti> when we'll switch f-spot/gthumb to file-based import
<seb128> which is not the case yet
<pitti> and 'mount' the camera
<seb128> right
<pitti> then you can have both
<pitti> *shiny* *shiny* :)
<Keybuk> "This folder contains pictures from a camera.  [ Import into F-Spot ]"
<pitti> but I guess for that it needs a real fuse mount, otherwise you can just see it from gvfs-enabled apps
<Keybuk> I half expected someone to write an LD_PRELOAD wrapper that wrapped open(), creat(), etc. with gvfs calls :p
<awalton__> that should already work fine if you have gvfs-fuse installed and working.
<Keybuk> but anyway, digressing into dangerous territory ;)
<Keybuk>  * (seb128) gvfs libarchive backend, use in hardy?
<awalton__> there's just not a way yet to make that "apparent" to users.
<Keybuk> is this "open tar files as a folder" ?
<seb128> Keybuk: ok, where we stand now is that the current gvfs in hardy has the libarchive backend
<seb128> we promoted libarchive for that
<seb128> it's not used now but I've the change ready, fedora is using it
<seb128> that's basically added a .desktop to nautilus which gives you a "mount archive" context menu option on zip, iso, etc
<seb128> s/added/adding
<seb128> and the mounted archive is listed as mount then
<seb128> you can browse it, copy from it, etc
<mvo> what about file-roller then? its no longer needed with that?
<Keybuk> does it work?
<seb128> Keybuk: it works fine yes
<seb128> I think the "have to mount and then use" user experience is not optimal
<pitti> so ideally it would work like file-roller, but look like nautilus?
<Keybuk> yeah, I guess you just want to double-click
<seb128> but it's not exposed a lot and easy to use for those who want the feature
<seb128> mvo: file-roller is needed because libarchive does only cpio, zip, iso
<Keybuk> Why isn't it the default action?
<pitti> zip:///home/martin/foo.zip/path/inside/zip.txt nautilus window would be cool :)
<seb128> another thing is that libarchive does reading only
<seb128> Keybuk: ^
<Keybuk> ahh
<seb128> which means you can't add files to a zip for example
<Keybuk> any plans for it to expand its format support or be writable?
<seb128> and it doesn't support rar, ace, and other formats which are used
<Keybuk> any downsides to activating it? does it break anything else?
<pitti> libarchive itself supports writing, but I doubt that it gets support for other formats anytime soon
<seb128> Keybuk: Company is speaking about it, but not sure how much work that is and if that's going to happen soon
<seb128> Keybuk: no, the gvfs backend is already activated
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> do you think we should activate it?
<seb128> that just adds a context menu item and a string to translate
<mvo> sounds like its harmless because file-roller is still the default and its just a optional new feature
<seb128> the downside is to have to support libarchive for the lts
<Keybuk> will we have to support it for intrepid?
<seb128> yes
<Keybuk> then we'll be supporting it anyway
<Keybuk> seb128: your decision :-)
<seb128> well, I've difficulties to evaluate how many users are wanting to browse isos
<Keybuk> _o/
<seb128> there was some users on the brainstorm website asking for a such feature
<Keybuk> actually, I hear quite a bit that being able to use .dmg files is a killer mac feature
<Keybuk> yeah, indeed
<Keybuk> so taking a step towards that for us seems good too
<Keybuk> (of course, running programs from inside isos will mean that ld.so will need gvfs support <g>)
<seb128> ok, so my vote would be to activate it, my concern was just adding extra load on the security team for something not really required
<Keybuk> seb128: check with kees, but if it's already in main, it sounds like he's approved it
<seb128> yeah, we discussed it on friday
<pitti> Keybuk: (note that file-roller browses ISOs just fine, too)
<seb128> that was basically "if you really want it, alright"
<Keybuk> :-)
<Keybuk>  * (pitti) Coordination of fixing /etc diff for upgrades (Michael started to provide diffs now, thanks a lot!)
<pitti> right, so http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/kvm/profile/lts-ubuntu/etc.diff is a nice and handy 5.2 MB (!!) diff
<pitti> between /etc/ upgraded from dapper and a fresh hardy installation
<pitti> I think there are probably many bombs and bugs inside
<mvo> it dosn't purge obsolete packages currently though
<pitti> so we should at least go through it with a fine comb, and turn errors into bug reports
<pitti> mvo: do you think you can regenerate it with purged uninstalled packages?
<pitti> although I suppose stuff like the /etc/cron.daily/find bug wouldn't have appeared then
<mvo> I will create a run with purge later, but my test-machine is running out of space to do too many of those in parallel (I "only" have a 320GB hdd for this)
<pitti> mvo: anyway, I think we just need to check newly added files in /etc/rc*.d/ for now, and can ignore others, right?
<pitti> that should make it easier
<pitti> I'm willing to work on that and turn it into a bug list, but I might need some more hands to fix all of them
<Keybuk> pitti: is that changes between /etc from dapper to hardy?
<Keybuk> ah yes, you said that
<mvo> probably, at least a exlucd list for stuff like /etc/altneratives should be added to the diff generator
<pitti> Keybuk: between a dapper->hardy upgrade and a hardy fresh install
<seb128> pitti: are those changes really an issue?
<Keybuk> oh, right
<pitti> yes, probably
<pitti> in the last weeks I fixed a few bugs which e. g. totally broke hal on dapper->hardy upgrade
<pitti> missing or wrong transitions in postinsts, etc.
<mvo> seb128: some are, /etc/cron.daily/find caused trouble for example with diversion in slocate under some circumstances
<pitti> or obsolete configuration files which don't match the new version any more
<Keybuk> mvo: are you planning to review and file bugs?
<pitti> so, we don't need to get the diff down to 0, but we need to watch out for real bugs
<mvo> Keybuk: yeah, I plan to review them (and did to some extend)
<pitti> mvo: shall we attack it together?
<Keybuk> pitti: or are you?
<mvo> sure, together is even better
<pitti> mvo: we could start at opposite ends of the file and work towards meeting i n the middle or so
<Keybuk> :)
<seb128> seems that quite some issues are packages not cleaning conffiles on upgrade when they stop shipping those
<seb128> dpkg should really do that automatically
<pitti> we have similar diffs for gutsy->hardy and a few other cases, but I guess this is the biggest/worst one
<seb128> having to add maintainer scripts to do that is annoying
<mvo> seb128: yeah, the amount of copied rm_conffile is really anoying
<Keybuk> :-)
<pitti> at least if they weren't modified, yeah
<Keybuk> just be glad we *have* a relatively standard function for it now <g>
<mvo> we should ship common snippets like rm_conffile or mv_conffile in some central package so that they can be sourced at least IMHO
<pitti> I do see the point for keeping modified ones, but there is *no* reason for unmodified ones
<seb128> mvo: indeed
<Keybuk> mvo: I've been arguing for ages that they should be debhelper things
<mvo> yeah, that would be fine as well
<Keybuk> since even when people use them, they forget prep_rm_conffile, undo_rm_conffile, finish_rm_conffile in preinst and postrm :)
<seb128> pitti: well, usually that's maintainers not knowing they need a snippet or not not been careful about that
<pitti> TBH, most of the time I just remove them in postinst
<Keybuk> pitti: then they show up as an obsolete file in dpkg
<seb128> what I do too
<pitti> erm, preinst I mean
<Keybuk> pitti: then if the unpack fails, the file vanishes forever ;)
<pitti> it's just too painful to get it 100% right without introducing other bugs FWIW
<Keybuk> anyway, dpkg sucks
<Keybuk> mvo, pitti: you're both happy to go through that file together and file bugs?
<mvo> at least this bit in it :P
<pitti> Keybuk: ack
<mvo> Keybuk: yeah
<Keybuk> I'm sure I can probably be blamed for some of them
<Keybuk>  * (pitti) next week I'll be at the LinuxFoundation collaboration summit in Austin; anything I should do/ask/tell/promote there?
<mvo> I will also keep the regular kvm tests running here and report issues
<pitti> ^ good to know for the default assignee :-P
<mvo> liw was doing some work here too recently, that is pretty cool
<pitti> oh, that's not really something to discuss here, just a general question to the team
<Keybuk> ok, if you have things for pitti to do at the LF summit next week, please tell him ;-)
<Keybuk> pitti: beware of "The Tilted Kilt"
<mvo> buy me some hardware :P
 * pitti ponders what to bring as a souvenir - a Colt, a barrel of oil, or a cactus
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk>  * Final call for UDS Agenda topics
<Keybuk> I'll be putting together the draft agenda (ie. list of topics to discuss and a paragraph summary of each) tomorrow
<seb128> - rethink the menus?
<tedg> Is there a list of UDS agenda topics?
<Keybuk> you've all given me a list, but if you have anything else, please e-mail it me
<Keybuk> tedg: that's what I'll be writing <g>
<ogra_cmpc> pitti, take the colt, thats likely the most exciting at customs :)
<tedg> Keybuk: Okay, I don't have any others to add :)
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<Keybuk> mvo: bug #210173
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210173 in transmission "Transmission does not use .desktop translations from Rosetta" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210173
<mvo> will take care of it
<Keybuk> Riddell: bug #207863
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 207863 in qt4-x11 "assert in qbrush.cpp on LPIA (skype)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207863
<Riddell> hmm, proprietry software on a platform i can't test
<Keybuk> sure, but if it's in the sponsoring queue, it means someone's already done a ptach
<Keybuk> you just need to check that, and upload
<pitti> Keybuk: "ptach" is a Klingon name-calling...
<Riddell> yep, sponsorship queue is on my todo
<Keybuk> pitti: it's slightly worrying that you know that ;)
<MacSlow> pitti, I'm amazed :)
<pitti> nuQneH?
<pitti> don't tell me you guy's didn't watch Star Trek TNG/Voyager
<MacSlow> sure I did/do
<Keybuk> seb128: bug #199402 looks like it was fixed and got re-opened ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 199402 in metacity "gnome-appearance-properties crashed with SIGSEGV in meta_theme_get_frame_style()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199402
<MacSlow> and waiting for the new StarTrek-movie
<kwwii> it just takes a special kind of person to learn klingon :-)
<seb128> Keybuk: yeah, I just unsubscribed the sponsors
<seb128> Keybuk: I don't think the guy who reopened has the same issue
<seb128> the bug was a crash, and he has a lack of preview in the capplet
<seb128> anyway nothing to sponsor there
<Keybuk> *waits for LP*
 * Keybuk sits down and starts singing about gold
<Keybuk> mvo: bug #104553
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 104553 in fontconfig "upgrade failed when fontconfig cache dirs are newer than system date" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/104553
<Keybuk> I remember that one came up before?
<mvo> I'm not happy with the patch, I would rather want to fix it in fontconfig (and I believe its fixed there already)
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> can you unsubscribe u-m-s
<mvo> my bad, I need to remove it from u-m-s
<Keybuk> ooh look one for me
<Keybuk> :-)
<Keybuk> mvo: also new patch on #87914
<Keybuk> mdz: since you're here ... bug #15051 <g>
<seb128> bug #87914
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 15051 in pcre3 "grep -P is not supported" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15051
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 87914 in update-manager "Progress bar refers to "1 minutes" or "1 hours"" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87914
<mvo> dholbach: could you please unsubscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors from #104553
<Keybuk> dholbach: likewise, please unsub from #94120
<dholbach> I can add you both to the team
<Keybuk> I don't want to be a member of the team
 * mvo check 87914
<dholbach> grmbl
<mvo> dholbach: yeah, please add me
<dholbach> thanks mvo
<seb128> lol
<dholbach> Keybuk: done (#104553)
<Keybuk> I'm doing everything I can to cut down my bug mail to levels where I can actually read and respond to the incoming bugs
<dholbach> Keybuk: you're not getting bug mail - it goes to a list :)
<Keybuk> so don't really want to join lp teams
<Keybuk> (also it'll make people think I'm able to do sponsorship requests)
<dholbach> fine with me
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/qa-hardy-list-archive/sort-by-package/desktop-buglist.html
<Keybuk> doesn't look like there's anything new on there
<Keybuk> or any changes from last time
<Keybuk> pedro_: ?
<pedro_> no there's nothing new on there
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> AOB?
<pedro_> leann add the date reported column to it and also if the report is less than 10 days old it will mark it as yellow
<Keybuk> ah, then there are two new things on there
<Keybuk> both for human-theme
<Keybuk> ah, just tasks on bug #99508
<Keybuk> ok
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 99508 in compiz "Window titlebar displayed not right with compiz enabled" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99508
<mvo> two of the compiz ones require a new upstream snapshot, I guess I need to talk with steve about this
<pedro_> change of state IIRC
<mvo> the "Wrongly placed maximized window with cloned display" ones
<Keybuk> I didn't see any additions to ReportingPage today?  nothing to report for the last week?
<pitti> nothing fancy from me
<pitti> "bug fixing, and more of it"
<mvo> upgrade test from gutsy->hardy is running, 20.000 pkgs, VM needs 2.8Gb ram to run smoothly and is 24h later at 15%
<Keybuk> ok, adjourned
<kwwii> mvo, pitti, seb128: just for information I have several updated packages to be uploaded (human-icon-theme, ubuntu-gdm-themes, human-theme, and ubuntulooks)
<Keybuk> thanks all
<kwwii> erm, wrong channel
<mvo> thanks
<pitti> thansk all
<seb128> thanks
<kwwii> thanks
<MacSlow> obrigado
<mdz> Keybuk: what about it?
<Keybuk> mdz: it's assigned to you ;)
<Keybuk> you have to review it, and upload it; or unsubscribe the ubuntu-main-sponsors team, etc.
<Keybuk> I'm almost entirely trolling <g>
<mdz> Keybuk: it is not
<Keybuk> it has mdz in bold letters in dholbach's list
<mdz> it's assigned to nobody
<mdz> I just looked
<mdz> I think it's too late for Hardy, unfortunately
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-04
<pochu> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 04 2008, 15:04:20 - Next meeting: Server Team in 5 days
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-05
<Serega> hi there
<warp10> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 05 2008, 09:57:57 - Next meeting: Server Team in 4 days
<Serega> oops, but https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<Zic> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 09 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 10 Apr 22:00: Security Team | 16 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 23 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 30 Apr 23:00: Server Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-30
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-31
<dholbach> good morning
<zul> heylo
<ivoks> hi
<sommer> yo to all :)
 * mathiaz waves
<ivoks> o/
<mathiaz> Let's get the Ubuntu Server team started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> Last week agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090324
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] KVM backport in hardy
<MootBot> New Topic:  KVM backport in hardy
<mathiaz> kirkland: ^^ how is this going?
<mathiaz> allright - kirkland doesn't seem to be around - let's postpone this topic
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server Guide
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Guide
<mathiaz> sommer: how is this coming along?
<sommer> mathiaz: should be good to go for jaunty
<mathiaz> sommer: did you get any feedback on the new and updated sections?
<sommer> received some great feed back from translators and some upstream projects
<sommer> mathiaz: yep, the eucalyptus team were great with feedback :)
<mathiaz> sommer: awesome.
<sommer> mathiaz: not sure there's much more news, some of the new sections were reviewed, but some weren't... but they can always be updated in the next release
<mathiaz> anything else to report on the documentation front?
<sommer> mathiaz: don't think so
<mathiaz> ok.
<mathiaz> sommer: thanks for keeping on a eye on the Server Guide !
<sommer> mathiaz: welcome :-)
<mathiaz> That's all I had from last week minutes.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] NUMA support for 64bit -server kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  NUMA support for 64bit -server kernel
<mathiaz> cooloney: ^^?
<cooloney> yeah, mathiaz
<cooloney> i am bryan from kernel team
<cooloney> we got a request from mdz for such numa things
<mathiaz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/331308
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 331308 in linux "NUMA support not enabled in amd64/config.server " [Medium,In progress]
<cooloney> how do you guys think
<cooloney> right
<ivoks> any known sideffects?
<cooloney> for kernel, it will change the abi
<zul> i dont have a problem with it
<cooloney> and enable some options for NUMA config
<ivoks> cooloney: just for amd64 or i386 too?
<mathiaz> According to the bug report: Even if it has some overhead on non-NUMA machines,
<cooloney> is that ok for jaunty?
<cooloney> ivoks, i think only for amd64
<cooloney> not i386
<mathiaz> Has this been measured?
<mathiaz> cooloney: I'm not sure if we can still enable this in jaunty
<cooloney> mathiaz, oh, no, i have no idea about the overhead
<mathiaz> cooloney: It seems that it's a new feature in the kernel
<cooloney> mathiaz, i understand, so we plan to discuss this things in our kernel sprint meeting this week
<cooloney> mathiaz, right, so it should be for karmic
<mathiaz> cooloney: ok - I don't have an issue with enable NUMA per se.
<cooloney> ok, guys, i guess you guys are agree to enable it for karmic
<mathiaz> cooloney: It's just that it seems a bit late in the release cycle to enable such a new thing.
<mathiaz> cooloney: for karmic, yes.
<cooloney> thanks, i will talk to our kernel members about this and try to enable it.
<mathiaz> cooloney: now it's up to you discuss it for jaunty.
<mathiaz> cooloney: IMO it's too late.
<cooloney> mathiaz, yeah, i agreee
<ivoks> i found a PDF with some overhead charts
<ivoks> but it's from 2001 :/
<cooloney> ivoks, do you have the URL of the PDF?
<ivoks> cooloney: http://jp.fujitsu.com/group/labs/downloads/techinfo/technote/linux/optimizing-numa.pdf
<ivoks> cooloney: but i woulnd't take it into account
<ivoks> it's really old
<cooloney> mathiaz, so i agree we are not going to enable NUMA for Jaunty but for karmic
<cooloney> ivoks, thx, got it
<mathiaz> great.
<mathiaz> cooloney: thanks for bringing up this topic.
<mathiaz> cooloney: anything else to add?
<cooloney> mathiaz, one more thing
<cooloney> how do you guys think to enable PAE for i386 flavour
<cooloney> maybe it is not very interesting for server folks, -:))
<zul> suse already does that but it still might be late for jaunty
<ivoks> weren't there some ideas in mountain view about merging server and generic?
<cooloney> we plan to introduce i386-pae flavour for karmic
<ivoks> (iirc, most of the server related stuff can be done with sysctl)
<mathiaz> right - IIRC PAE for i386 was discussed during last UDS with the kernel team
<cooloney> mathiaz, ok, no problem.
<cooloney> please go on the meeting.
<mathiaz> great. Thanks
<cooloney> we can discuss that in our team sprint,
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu on EC2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu on EC2
<mathiaz> zul: ^^
<zul> hi
<mathiaz> zul: how is the state of the intrepid images?
<zul> they are going well no major problems being reported
<zul> ec2-api-tools were renelty packaved for jaunty and are available now
<mathiaz> is there another beta planned?
<zul> there is
<zul> im not sure when though, it should be announced soon
<zul> by that time we should have some hardy images available for public use
<zul> jaunty is still being worked on
<mathiaz> zul: great. So the next set of images will be beta images for hardy?
<zul> hardy and intrepid
<mathiaz> zul: great. And later on there will be images based on jaunty too.
<mathiaz> zul: ?
<zul> thats the plan there is more of a demand from our users for hardy before jaunty
<mathiaz> zul: agreed.
<mathiaz> zul: what will be the kernel base for hardy?
<zul> 2.6.24
<zul> 2.6.28 for jaunty
<zul> i think thats it from me
<mathiaz> zul: great.
<mathiaz> zul: where all the new beta images will be announced?
<mathiaz> zul: on the ec2-beta mailing list/
<mathiaz> zul: ?
<zul> correct
<mathiaz> zul: great. Thanks for giving an update.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Bugs from beta
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bugs from beta
<mathiaz> so as you may have noticed we've released a beta version of Jaunty last Thursday
<mathiaz> and we've seen an increase in the number of bugs filed
<mathiaz> so any help in triagging them is welcomed
<mathiaz> so that we can have a good view on what's going wrong in Jaunty
<mathiaz> and help make a rock-solid release by the end of April.
<jdbrowne> How can we help triage the bugs ?
<ivoks> reproducing them would be a good step
<mathiaz> http://ubuntuservernewbugs.notlong.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntuservernewbugs.notlong.com/
<mathiaz> ^^ here is a link to the list of NEW bugs related to the ubuntu-server team
<jdbrowne> if I reproduce them, I put a new comment or can I change the status to 'confirmed' ?
<mathiaz> jdbrowne: if you can reproduce them, you can move them to the confirmed state
<jdbrowne> ok, feel free to bump to the right doc
<jdbrowne> to bump me
<mathiaz> jdbrowne: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Bug%20Triager%20resources
<mathiaz> jdbrowne: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/GettingInvolved#Triage%20bugs%20and%20become%20a%20Triager
<mathiaz> Any help in triagging the influx of bug for beta is welcome!
<mathiaz> let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<mathiaz> Anyone wants to add anything?
<Extend> me
<mathiaz> ivoks: what's on your mind?
<mathiaz> Extend: sure
<Extend> it's not about the meeting's topic
<ivoks> mathiaz: check out bacula and rhcs
<Extend> i want to talk control of my loco team cause they are lazy
<ivoks> see if there are bugs and triage them
<Extend> and i've done great things in my country
<mathiaz> Extend: this is not the right moment to ask about that - and not the right people
<ivoks> Extend: wrong meeting
<Extend> i know
<Extend> it is a wrong meeting
<Extend> no upcoming scheduled meeting for this topic
<ivoks> who is in favour of droping rhcs for next ubuntu releases and going with linuxHA instead?
<Extend> but i want someone to tell me what to do
<zul> ivoks: mememememememememe!!!
 * zul raises his hand
 * zul raises his hand
<zul> heh
<ivoks> zul: me too :)
<nealmcb> Extend: join #ubuntu-locoteams
<mathiaz> Extend: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoFAQ?highlight=%28CategoryLoCoTeams%29#The%20LoCo%20team%20in%20my%20area%20is%20not%20very%20good,%20can%20I%20replace%20it?
<Extend> nealmcb, thanks a lot
<mathiaz> Extend: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoFAQ
<Extend> mathiaz, thanks :d i don't know what to say really
<jdbrowne> what is wrong with rhcs?
<mathiaz> Extend: ^^ that page should give you pointers to move forward
<mathiaz> ivoks: what's the issue with bacula?
<mathiaz> ivoks: it needs more testing/fixing in jaunty?
<Extend> thanks all
<ivoks> mathiaz: i guess not, but i have to check if there are bugs for jaunty
<mathiaz> ivoks: same question for rhcs
<ivoks> mathiaz: i was thinking at loud
<ivoks> there's nothing more we could do for jaunty, except bugs triaging
<mathiaz> ivoks: ok. So more testing and bug handling is required for bacula
<ivoks> mathiaz: well, the usual care and testing
<mathiaz> ivoks: ok.
<mathiaz> ivoks: what about rhcs?
<ivoks> mathiaz: well, i would like to see jaunty being last version that supports rhcs
<mathiaz> ivoks: IIRC rhcs and linux-ha are not totally feature compatible
<ivoks> mathiaz: fabionne was maintainer of rhcs in ubuntu and now we have quite old rhcs
<ivoks> mathiaz: no one else wants to take it and not that many people use it
<mathiaz> ivoks: is there an equivalent to gvfs in linux-ha?
<ivoks> gfs
<mathiaz> ivoks: fabionne gave up rhcs in ubuntu?
<mathiaz> ivoks: IIUC he was still maintaining it
<mathiaz> ivoks: I've seen a couple of upload to jaunty
<Agafonov> mathiaz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda points here as todays LoCo meeting. Is it mistake?
<ivoks> mathiaz: there was his post on ubuntu-devel about rhcs
<ivoks> mathiaz: let me find it
<mathiaz> Agafonov: sure - at 20:00 UTC
<ivoks> mathiaz: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-February/027583.html
<mathiaz> ivoks: right.
<mathiaz> ivoks: we should probably discuss that during the next UDS
<ivoks> of course...
<mathiaz> ivoks: and see what we should do about it.
<mathiaz> ivoks: I thought there was some demand for rhcs
<ivoks> i don't know if anyone is that familliar with it as fabio
<mathiaz> ivoks: ok - from a maintainance point of view.
<mathiaz> ivoks: and so the proposal would be to replace it with linux-ha?
<ivoks> mathiaz: i use it on couple of projects... does anyone else here uses it?
<ivoks> it would be great if canonical would give some info about their customer requests for rhcs
 * sommer has been considering it, but hasn't really gone in depth
<mathiaz> ivoks: I don't know. I can ask the Canonical support guys about it.
<ivoks> mathiaz: please do
<ivoks> that's for karmic, of course...
<mathiaz> ivoks: sure :)
<ivoks> in jaunty, i'll make sure everything is working as it should
<mathiaz> anything else to discuss?
<ivoks> i didn't test it, so it might be ok already :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: thanks for giving some love to bacula and rhcs
<mathiaz> anything else to discuss?
<jdbrowne> is it the right time and people to discuss glitches in the kvm/libvirt jaunty setup, or should I file the bugs first?
<mathiaz> jdbrowne: filing bugs is the best way to proceed
<jdbrowne> ok
<nealmcb> jdbrowne: and then you can also see #ubuntu-virt
<jdbrowne> nealmcb: done, i will file the bugs with all the steps to reproduce
<mathiaz> jdbrowne: great thanks.
<nealmcb> jdbrowne: good!
<mathiaz> let's move on
<jdbrowne> no pb. This is my own intrest :) will Nijaba be in solutions linux tomorrow also?
<mathiaz> time to wrap up
<mathiaz> jdbrowne: yes - he already is there
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> same place, same time, next week?
<sommer> sure
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> bye :)
<mathiaz> great - so see you all next week, same place, same time
<mathiaz> and don't forget to testdrive Jaunty Beta!
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:57.
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
<Garfeild> hi all
<Villain> Ð¸ ÑÐ¸ÑÐ¸Ð½Ð°...
<ubuntar> :-D
<Villain> Ð ÑÐµÑÐ½Ð¾Ð¼-ÑÐµÑÐ½Ð¾Ð¼ Ð³Ð¾ÑÐ¾Ð´Ðµ, Ð½Ð° ÑÐµÑÐ½Ð¾Ð¹-ÑÐµÑÐ½Ð¾Ð¹ ÑÐ»Ð¸ÑÐµ, Ð² ÑÐµÑÐ½Ð¾Ð¼-ÑÐµÑÐ½Ð¾Ð¼ Ð´Ð¾Ð¼Ðµ, Ð² ÑÐµÑÐ½Ð¾-ÑÐµÑÐ½Ð¾Ð¹ ÐºÐ²Ð°ÑÑÐ¸ÑÐµ ÑÐ¸Ð´Ð¸Ñ ÑÐµÑÐ½ÑÐ¹-ÑÐµÑÐ½ÑÐ¹ Ð¼ÑÐ¶Ð¸Ðº Ð¸ Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾ÑÐ¸Ñ:
<Villain> - ÐÐ¸ÐºÐ¾Ð³Ð´Ð° Ð±Ð¾Ð»ÑÑÐµ Ð½Ðµ Ð±ÑÐ´Ñ ÑÐ°Ð¼ Ð·Ð°Ð¿ÑÐ°Ð²Ð»ÑÑÑ ÐºÐ°ÑÑÑÐ¸Ð´Ð¶Ð¸!
<Garfeild> Villain: please, stop
<paalny92> I have verry low sound volume. Where iis the advanced volum controller in ubuntu? :P
<aim1159> paalny92: it's not a support channel. please ask on #ubuntu
<ianto> paalny92: The correct channel for that is #ubuntu however right click the speak in the top right corner
<ianto> s/speak/speaker
<ianto> And work it out or ask in #ubuntu
<Greene> hi
<GunbladeIV> hi
<nbliang> hi
<RachedTN> hi
<RachedTN> :)
<Garfeild> hi
<Garfeild> damn!
<Garfeild> i'm late)))
<ApOgEE--> greetings all
<Villain> hi
<aim1159> Greene:
<aim1159> Garfeild:
<juliux> hi
<juliux> the lococouncil is online but busy with an other issue
<juliux> we will be here in a few minutes
<nbliang> ok
 * cprofitt waves
<cprofitt> NY State is here
<ianto> Good to hear ;)
<juliux> cool
<ianto> cprofitt: The council will take a few minutes, there was just an announcement
<cprofitt> thanks ianto - one team dropped so perhaps we will make it to us
<cprofitt> np
<juliux> russian team also here?
<Garfeild> yep
 * kwah o/
<Garfeild> juliux: it's me, aim1159, Greene, kwah, Agafonov
<nbliang> MalaysianTeam is here
<Garfeild> also ubuntar1, Villain
<Garfeild> and skyrider )
<kwah> Garfeild, and skyrider :D
<ianto> Ubuntu Cymru (WelshTeam) from me
<nbliang> but the main contact will be here soon (on the way back)
<juliux> cool
<Garfeild> juliux: and Malamut
<Garfeild> (^_^)
<aim1159> juliux: and Malamut
<Garfeild> and Alsvartr...
<kwah> yep, half of the list almost.
<Garfeild> )
<boredandblogging> lets get started
<boredandblogging> Russian LoCo?
<kwah> here
<juliux> privet ;)
<Garfeild> ^_^
<kwah> juliux, cool :D
<juliux> some russian knowledge from school is left;)
<juliux> can you introduce your team short?
<kwah> Russian Team is the number of enthusiasts
<kwah> working mostly on the support of Russian speaking users
<kwah> and managing relevant resources aimed to provide this support
<kwah> We see our team as not really Local Team
<kwah> but a meta Team of Russian speaking people
<kwah> coordinating work related to Ubuntu and spreading knowledge about it
<kwah> Currently we are in a period of reorganization
<kwah> and in the process of clearly stating our goals in the areas mentioned in our approval application
<kwah> Currently, the core of the team consists of about 20-30 active individuals passionate about what they are doing
<kwah> What else would you like to know?
<juliux> kwah: thanks
<boredandblogging> before the reorganization, how was the LoCo set up?
<kwah> Mostly there were people managing activities on the support forum, irc-channel
<juliux> do you had some real life events?
<juliux> and what do you think about ubuntu-eu and is there an involement from your team
<kwah> plus big effort was put into the translation of the distribution
<kwah> real life events: outings and parties coordinated mopstly via forum
<kwah> ubuntu-eu: we have a contact with the team via our administrator
<boredandblogging> the forums seem very active
<JanC> do you do anything like installparties ?
<kwah> yes it is very active, indeed
<kwah> I am aware of such activities in the St-Petersburg LUG
<kwah> representative of which is also here
<aim1159> JanC: some of the memebers of our team do some install and release party activities in their local cities
<aim1159> for example aceler do such parties in nizhniy novgorod
<aim1159> i do such install and release parties on, nearly every release in saint petersburg
<JanC> yeah, I can imagine you need local organisations / groups for that, Russia is rather big...
<aim1159> but there is no such events wich is lables as 'russian loco team event' since there were no real loco in russia untill now
<kwah> JanC, indeed
<kwah> aim1159, +1
<aim1159> so the next step, after formal russian loco organisatin is creating a sub-teams on each city wich have active members of ubuntu community
<JanC> you can keep working together with the local LUGs I guess...
<kwah> JanC, yes we will do that
<kwah> One of the most active parts of our forum, in fact, is where people look for each other for meetings and exchange of disks
<boredandblogging> looks like you guys have done great work online, but I'm wondering about real life
<kwah> Spreading Ubuntu install disks etc
<kwah> boredandblogging, yep, we need more work on that, especially to make it more visible
<kwah> from Internet
<kwah> ;)
<JanC> are there shops in Russia that sell PCs with Ubuntu?
<Garfeild> yes, several
<Garfeild> but i didn't see them)
<kwah> JanC, In fact currently FOSS getting some momentum in Russia
<kwah> Since the rules are becoming tighter and
<kwah> bug#1 operating system becomes not really free (as in beer)
<JanC> you mean copyright law is enforced now?  ;-)
<kwah> yep
<kwah> but not only copyright law
<kwah> consumer rights as well
<kwah> recently, FAS (anti-monopoly regulators) also stepped in with some questions to current practices
<kwah> about selling OS bundled to hardware
<JanC> ah, interresting
<kwah> and, of course, number of projects currently going on with FOSS in schools and government institutions
<kwah> although, Ubuntu is not represented  there, AFAIK
<JanC> kwah: did you try to get schools involved?
<JanC> you = the locoteam
<kwah> yep, there are some efforts
<kwah> but it is very difficult... since computer and Win is a kinda the same thing for teachers
<kwah> Thats why I think our documentation and translation efforts are very important
<kwah> of course, awareness about the existence of the Ubuntu is another vector of our attention
<aim1159> JanC: most of the work with schools are faced with bureaucracy barrier
<boredandblogging> lets vote
 * kwah kinda scared
<boredandblogging> +1 please do some real life events in the future, specifically for 9.04
<kwah> we will
<JanC> +1 but do some more live events, or document them better (they aren't in the approval-page at all now)
<popey> +1
<juliux> +1 but focus on some reallife activites;)
<kwah> ;)
<juliux> if you need help ask at the loco-contact list
<kwah> of course
<JanC> I think some of them already have experience, they can help others
<boredandblogging> congrats Russian Team
<johnc4510> w00t for the Russian Team
<cprofitt> congrats Russia
<kwah> Thanks all
<ianto> Congratulations
<cody-somerville> w00t
 * aim1159 goes to LOR ;-)
<GunbladeIV> congratez Russian Team
<nbliang> congratulations to Russian Team
<Mean-Machine> congrats Ubuntu-ru !
<boredandblogging> Malaysia?
<e-jat> congrate russian team
<kwah> aim1159, wrong, go to ubuntu.ru :D
<nbliang> yep
<nbliang> hi, we r the MalaysianTeam
<[Green]> :)
<nbliang> our members currently online: e-jat, GunbladeIV & ApOgEE--
<ubuntar1> Thank you!
<ApOgEE--> hi
<e-jat> hi all ..
 * cprofitt three cheers for ApOgEE-- 
<GunbladeIV> hello juliux , boredandblogging , popey , and JanC
 * nbliang it's now 4+ in the early morning
 * ApOgEE-- thanks cprofitt 
<nbliang> :p
<nbliang> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MalaysianTeam/ApprovalApplication
<nbliang> can we proceed?
<juliux> yes pls;)
<JanC> yes, tell a bit about your team  ;)
<nbliang> started in july 2005
<nbliang> we provide free community support to users of any of the official Ubuntu flavours (ie. Kubuntu, Xubuntu) as well as advocating the use of Ubuntu to individuals and organisations a like
<nbliang> goals:
<nbliang> to spread the Ubuntu's spirit to anybody atht is staying in Malaysia
<nbliang> be the central point for all Ubuntu users to discuss, get together and meet up
<e-jat> that*
<nbliang> to give the local support, provide supplies and information to users in Malaysia
<nbliang> to organise events and to represent Ubuntu in local conferences / activities in Malaysia
<nbliang> to involve in Ubuntu projects such as packaging, localisation and documentation
<nbliang> strengthen Ubuntu brand in Malaysia in businesses, educations and government
<nbliang> team wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MalaysianTeam
<nbliang> 164 members registered
<nbliang> anything else needed?
<nbliang> locoteam also involve with the adoption of FOSS in government agencies
<nbliang> some of the goverment agencies r using ubuntu
<nbliang> such as ministry of education (MOE), matriculations, government schools, etc
<nbliang> other main contribution is translation
<nbliang> through launchpad
<nbliang> we have active members in irc #ubuntu-my @ irc.freenode.net
<nbliang> active forums at http://forums.ubuntu.com.my
<nbliang> now starting to build local language wiki at http://wiki.ubuntu.com.my
<nbliang> recently, we have meetup in march
<nbliang> and organized some "lepaking" (Malay words, means gathering) for members
<nbliang> upcoming events will be in end of April @ 1st week of May
<nbliang> which is to participate in MSC-OSCON 2009 under OSDC.MY
<nbliang> http://osdc.my/
<juliux> impressive
<boredandblogging> what events have you had since the July 2008 grand meet up?
<nbliang> we have meet ups mostly
<nbliang> since no big event is coming in
<e-jat> boredandblogging: we participate in foss.my
<e-jat> http://foss.my
<nbliang> oh ya, forget about that
<nbliang> thanks e-jat
<e-jat> ubuntu-my having room for both ..
<e-jat> booth*
<e-jat> on foss.my .. explaining what is ubuntu .. and what can we do with it to delegate who attend the foss.my
<nbliang> we also do conversino for various companies and agencies, as stated in our approval application
<popey> Impressive stuff!
<nbliang> btw, canonical did come visit MOE n terengganu state .. planning for the thin client solution with ubuntu
<nbliang> MOE = ministry of education
<popey> Lets vote on this..
<boredandblogging> +1
<JanC> +1
<nbliang> thanks guys !!
<e-jat> thanks boredandblogging , JanC
<ApOgEE--> thanks
<popey> +1
<nbliang> thanks popey
<boredandblogging> congrats
<johnc4510> congrats Malaysian team
<cprofitt> Congrats Malaysia - go ApOgEE--
<popey> no, thank _you_!
<ApOgEE--> thanks popey
<e-jat> thanks council ..
<GunbladeIV> w0ot Malaysian Team
<ApOgEE--> thanks cprofitt
<Mean-Machine> congrats to Malaysian LoCo
<nbliang> question: we have to re-apply every year rite?
<GunbladeIV> thanks to council
<boredandblogging> I don't think we can do NY in a few minutes
<popey> nbliang: no
<e-jat> popey: ic ..
<nbliang> oh, ok
<nbliang> thanks popey
<ApOgEE--> thanks Mean-Machine
<popey> we review various teams periodically though
<juliux> +1
<e-jat> thanks all ..
<juliux> see you next year;)
<popey> so we may come back to you and ask you to tell us how you got on since you became official
<nbliang> sure
<ApOgEE--> thanks all
<nbliang> thanks for the info
<cprofitt> boredandblogging, so not enough time... I have it all ready to cut-n-paste so it can go faster
<juliux> there is something missing at the NY Approval page;)
<JanC> boredandblogging: you have to go?
<e-jat> thanks .. so we do need to submit annual report for our activity to loco contact list /
<e-jat> ?
<boredandblogging> actually no
<cprofitt> what is missing juliux ?
<boredandblogging> we can do NY if we have quorum
<popey> actually, I am sure dholbach would like a team report off you monthly :)
<boredandblogging> lol
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports
 * nbliang NY Team, go go go
<juliux> cprofitt: ubucon 2007;)
<e-jat> owh .. ok ..
<nbliang> popey: lol
<juliux> cprofitt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TheUbucon/NYC2007 ;)
<cprofitt> Hello I am from the NY team
 * ApOgEE-- go go cprofitt 
<e-jat> i already email to dholbach recently
<cprofitt> hal14450, ausimage and marnold are here
<cprofitt> as well from NY
<cprofitt> The New York State Team is active in supporting FOSS and Ubuntu across all of NY State. We work with existing LUGS and SIGS to support Ubuntu and Linux users. We are active in trying to get IT consulting firms to consider adding FOSS and Linux products to the items they offer to support.
<cprofitt>  I am personally an advocate for Ubuntu and FOSS in K-12 Schools across the state. The team was formed a while ago, but it was not until last last year that we started to be more active in giving presentations and adovcating for Ubuntu and FOSS.
<cprofitt> We are in the midst of planning participation in some events that will happen this summer and fall. We are also active in trying to get our local members more active on the international on-line level
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/ApprovalApplication
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam
<cprofitt> That is what I had prepared... I can answer questions now
<cprofitt> http://main.newyork-ubuntu.com/Main/HomePage
<juliux> do you some more information what you have done in the paste?
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Events/Past
<cprofitt> that goes back to April of 2007
<cprofitt> I joined the team last year around October so I can not speak to their past events on a personal basis
<cprofitt> I do know that the team founders had real life pull them away after the team started...
<cprofitt> and we have been rejuvenated since October
 * johnc4510 notes that the NY team has taken off of late    way to go NY
 * cprofitt smiles at johnc4510 
<boredandblogging> oh wait
<boredandblogging> pleia2 left some comments
<boredandblogging> 20:08:37]       pleia2 | cool, they've been a vaguely active team these past few years, having meetings
<boredandblogging> [20:09:01]       pleia2 | but over these past several months cprofitt has really taken control of things and started planning all kinds of events, conferences, more meetings,
<boredandblogging>                           working with LUGs
<boredandblogging> 20:09:11]       pleia2 | they're doing some amazing work :) and have a pile of events lined up
<boredandblogging> [20:09:35]       pleia2 | I've sorta been their Mentor through the US Teams (they don't need me anymore!), so it's exciting
<boredandblogging> thats its
<johnc4510> agreed
<boredandblogging> thats it
<cprofitt> to be honest I really feel like this is just the tip of the ice berg for us...
<popey> That's good to hear from pleia2
<cprofitt> we no have comments in Ithaca (thanks to the conference we did - booth and presentation), Syracuse has woken up, and other areas of the state are starting to be more active...
<boredandblogging> lots of things coming up
<cprofitt> Yes.
<cprofitt> I have not posted the fall stuff I have finished and we have several things in the works
<cprofitt> We should be presenting at NYSCATE - which is a state wide K-12 conference
<cprofitt> and we have presentation by several vendors coming in the fall
 * cprofitt deejoe is a NY State person who just made it in time
<cprofitt> thanks for coming deejoe-us-ny
<deejoe-us-ny> have to head for home soon, but if there are any questions anyone has for me before I go I'd be happy to try to address them.
<cprofitt> marnold, just told me in our channel we may be able to start up a local group at his college Morrisville
<cprofitt> he has gotten some people there interested... go marnold
<marnold> and in open source more generally
<cprofitt> deejoe-us-ny, thanks for coming and showing NY State is strong in the power of FOSS
<popey> Ok, time to vot?
<popey> *vote
 * cprofitt relaxes
<cprofitt> I thought I got disconnected there for a minute
<boredandblogging> think NY has some good events coming up...
<juliux> i think the NY team is on a good way
<juliux> but i would like to see some more documentation about the work;)
<cprofitt> juliux, did you click on the links from the list I gave you?
<juliux>  cprofitt yes
<cprofitt> k...
<juliux> i see there a lot of meetings
<juliux> but no results
<juliux> no minutes
<deejoe-us-ny> hmm
<juliux> popey: boredandblogging JanC ?
<JanC> juliux: depends on which links you follow, I guess
<deejoe-us-ny> I'm pretty sure there are pictures of events
<cprofitt> They are events -- our meetings are online
<cprofitt> http://main.newyork-ubuntu.com/Activities/MeetingsPage
<cprofitt> those are our on-line meetings for official business
<juliux> ah found the right link
<cprofitt> and here
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Meetings/Past
<deejoe-us-ny> juliux: consider for instance https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Events/20090205
<deejoe-us-ny> which is a link straight off of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/ApprovalApplication
<juliux> sorry
<deejoe-us-ny> :-)
<cprofitt> no problem juliux
<cprofitt> I could have done a better job at the layout
<cprofitt> this is the event I am most proud of -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Events/20090326
<boredandblogging> sorry
<cprofitt> we worked with the Ithaca Free Software Association
<cprofitt> and was in the Vendor pool with Microsoft and Apple...
 * deejoe-us-ny wasn't able to go--it was a weekday workday
<boredandblogging> NY, I think you can guys should come back in 3 months
<cprofitt> our booth was packed... and my presentation had around 80-90 people init
<boredandblogging> once you do all those events, it will be awesome!
<deejoe-us-ny> boredandblogging: do you have some constructive comment for cprofitt?
<cprofitt> boredandblogging, I would really like to know what is lacking...
<boredandblogging> there are a lot of meetups, its hard to tell if they were more than simply socializing
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Events/20090326
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Events/20090305
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Events/20090221
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Events/20090217
<deejoe-us-ny> I'm not a huge fan of this hoop jumping process, I think our local community can do fine without the support of Ubuntu.  I'm just wondering whether the LoCo wants to be a part of our local FOSS community or not.
<deejoe-us-ny> If so, I think some support for ausimage and cprofitt's efforts would be in order.
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Events/20090108
<deejoe-us-ny> If not, meh.
<cprofitt> are those the events you are looking for boredandblogging
<cprofitt> or is it something more?
<JanC> I think you've done a lot of good things already this year
<boredandblogging> cprofitt: yeah, thats the kind of stuff I"m looking for
<cprofitt> thanks JanC
<deejoe-us-ny> anyway, I've got to go home to my family.  I'll continue to idle and hope to see when I come back that the LoCo council has decided to back ausimage's persistence and cprofitt's energy.
<cprofitt> boredandblogging, so how much more of that do we need to do before we are considered to have done enough for approval?
<cprofitt> thanks deejoe-us-ny have a good night
<boredandblogging> you guys have done a good job this year
<JanC> cprofitt: are there any older events that you are proud of?  (I mean as a team)
<cprofitt> JanC, to be honest... not that were well documented...
<boredandblogging> just keep doing it for a bit longer
<cprofitt> I was not active in the team before late October
<JanC> cprofitt: that's why boredandblogging wants you to come back in some months
<JanC> some locoteams are very active for a short time, and then slow down again
<cprofitt> noted...
<marnold> i know thats not us though
<cprofitt> we will take your advice under consideration...
<popey> is it time to vote?
<JanC> that's what we hope (and I think pleia2 wouldn't have said what she said is she thought you would)
<cprofitt> it should be simple as there is no issue with what we are doing, but a lack of trust that we will continue to do so.
<cprofitt> I know some will be disappointed that we did not make it... but I will do what I can to keep morale high
<boredandblogging> cprofitt: its not a lack of trust
<boredandblogging> you are doing good work
<boredandblogging> simply keep doing it
<boredandblogging> popey is right, lets vote
<marnold> boredandblogging, if i may ask one thing first
<cprofitt> marnold, we just need to keep working... no need to ask the question
<JanC> marnold: you can
<marnold> if we are doing good work what is the issue with making us offical so we have more tools at our disposal to continue doing it
<JanC> marnold: what tools do you lack?
<cprofitt> JanC, marnold the only thing I know we get from approval is a different conference pack
<cprofitt> which equates to little more than hats...
<JanC> BTW: I'm pretty sure the team will get approved +4 some months from now if you keep on working like you do now...
<JanC> cprofitt: there might be an early pack of CDs too (if Canonical will do it again for this release)
<marnold> well hats are cool but i've worked with some people who are a bit skitish about coming to a meeting put on by in org thats not officially endorsed yet
<nhandler> JanC: I don't think the pack of CDs came early. It was just a big box of different types of CDs for the LoCos to distribute
<marnold> I've had that question via e-mail at least twice
<JanC> nhandler: they are the first CDs sent (so they arrive first too ;-) )
<boredandblogging> lets vote
<JanC> marnold: look at the Malaysian team, they have been doing great stuff since 2005 and got officially approved today
<JanC> marnold: what exactly were they skitish about?
<cprofitt> marnold, or take a look at the Russian team too...
<cprofitt> they got approved today as well...
<boredandblogging> juliux: ?
<boredandblogging> popey: ?
<boredandblogging> JanC: ?
<juliux> 0
<popey> 0
<cprofitt> we can look at what they have done and move forward
<marnold> i fine with working harder
<JanC> 0+
<boredandblogging> cprofitt: seriously, you are doing good this year
<boredandblogging> don't get discouraged
<cprofitt> glad I survived the power surge I just had...
<cprofitt> would have been bad to drop...
 * cprofitt smiles
<JanC> marnold: not working harder per sÃ©, just keep working
<cprofitt> I understand boredandblogging I just have to keep the morale high
<johnc4510> cprofitt: haang in there you guys are doing great
<marnold> and JanC i'm dealing with acidemics and city people here
<boredandblogging> if you get any heat, just blame us :-)
<cprofitt> good night guys...
<juliux> gn8
<cprofitt> I have to go make nice with the wife as all heck broke out with the kids during this...
<boredandblogging> cprofitt: come back in a couple of months
<cprofitt> we may wait until next January...
<cprofitt> just to make sure boredandblogging
<JanC> marnold: if there are any real problems, maybe we or jono or so can help reassure them...
<cprofitt> I do not want NYS to have a third set back
<ianto> Alright, is it time to discuss the mailing list proposals? :)
 * cprofitt waves to all
<cprofitt> good night guys
 * ianto waves to cprofitt 
<ApOgEE--> cprofitt, keep it up!
<ianto> Good night
<e-jat> btw ..
<e-jat> who can the council recommend us to invite personel from canonical for our coming event ?
<popey> ianto: you're after a mailing list for a new loco team right?
<ianto> popey: That is correct
<ApOgEE--> we have upcoming FOSS event in Malaysia... inviting everyone here
<JanC> e-jat: I think you can ask Jono for help with that, or Canonical directly
<popey> ianto: given the history of this and the fact that we discussed this at length in #ubuntu-cym, I'm uncomfortable approving this, because you didn't go through the process that we agreed
<e-jat> JanC , ive email jono , mdz n dholbach ..
<popey> ianto: I would like to abstain and defer this to Jono - I spoke to him earlier but unfortunately he was busy..
<e-jat> they r not available on the that we propose ..
<popey> ianto: I'd like to get approval first of all for there being an Ubuntu-CYM LoCo at all, before we approve the mailing list
<ianto> popey: By defer, you mean to remove it from the council's agenda and give to Jono or just your own vote to Jono?
<e-jat> we want to get someone from canonical the be a crowd puller .. its for asia regional
<popey> ianto: I feel that you have gone round getting all the resources (website, irc channel [and now mailing list]) without ever having the approval for the team at all in the first place
<nhandler> ianto: In the meantime, you can create a mailing list through LP
<ianto> nhandler: I've tried through LP
<popey> nhandler: no, thats not ideal
<ianto> nhandler: They said no because it is Ubuntu project to get at lists.ubuntu.com
<boredandblogging> main loco lists are not supposed to be on LP
<ApOgEE--> gtg now... thanks guys
<keffie_jayx> o/
<ianto> popey: I've spoken to Jono and he said theat he won't deny the team but doesn't want to see a wasted effort
<nhandler> boredandblogging: I was under the impression that LP was ok until the team was approved
<ianto> and in my eyes and the eyes of the memebrs it isn't a wasted one as of yet
<popey> thats the point
<e-jat> boredandblogging: how about u? are u available / free after UDS ?
<popey> "yet"
<popey> 6 months of wasted effort later...?
<boredandblogging> e-jat: I don't work for canonical
<popey> I have not seen anything from jono that says yes to an ubuntu-cym loco team
<JanC> ianto: why can't you work inside ubuntu-uk for now?
<ianto> I'm not one to give up on things and I have a good support base  so far
<popey> ianto: we agreed you'd do this through -uk
<popey> yet you changed your mind without discussing it
<e-jat> boredandblogging: u can be representative :)
<popey> e-jat: we're having a meeting at the moment
<e-jat> popey: owh sorry ..
<ianto> popey: I have tried increasing more Welsh emails on -uk, it isn't going so well so far on there. There are just too many people on the list and a small minority being Welsh
<ianto> It is an impersonal list
<popey> its not a case of increasing more welsh mails
<popey> it's a case of organising events, doing stuff
<popey> not sending mails and counting how many replies there are
<popey> which is what you've been doing so far
<ianto> I've organised meetings to organise the party :-/
<popey> great!
<ianto> Isn't that what you said Ia m not doing?
<popey> thats precisely what I said you should do..
<ianto> Through the -uk list although most people came from lp ^
<JanC> that's a start...
<popey> ..but.. you're still going ahead with -cym in the background
<popey> which is entirely _not_ what we agreed
<popey> even though we agreed it should go through -uk
<dariusH> i thought we agreed to go ahead with -cym, using the -uk resources (mailing list etc)
<popey> so why request a cym list then?
<ianto> To make the process easier for the Welsh team I'd have thought
<popey> thats my point
<popey> the welsh team consists of two guys at the moment
<popey> you two
<ianto> Not to me
<popey> who turned up to the meeting you had last saturday?
<popey> you two
<ianto> popey: However the channel was full 30mins later
<ianto> People who had apologised for losing track of time
<popey> by full you mean two more people
<popey> anyway, my original point still stands
<Ahmuck> how many people are required for a loco ?
<popey> I'd like to see confirmation from Jono and/or the cc that ubuntu-cym team should exist
<popey> Ahmuck: there is already a loco
<Ahmuck> different country
<popey> lets not get into the geopolitics
<popey> fact is that UK covers Wales
<Ahmuck> i'm usa.  my questions is out of context
<dariusH> i think the team still needs to develop, and that a mailing list isn't necessary yet.
<ianto> I thikn that communicaiton is key to development
<popey> I'd recommend that we pass this up to jono. I'm not happy approving a list for a team that I personally believe right now has been formed in bad faith.
<popey> Well, Jono or the CC, it's your choice.
<juliux> popey: i think we better pass it to the cc, i think it is a general thing
<popey> Agreed
<popey> If they say "Go go Ubuntu-Cym" then I'll be happy to stand by that.
<juliux> popey: and if it goes to the cc it will cover more people
<juliux> popey: will you send a mail to the cc?
<popey> Sure.
<ianto> Can you cc the CC mail to myself?
<JanC> I'd prefer if ianto & his friend would just start organising things (and make a Welsh site for Ubuntu) and then come back
<ianto> JanC: In the process of acquiring ubuntu-cym.org
<ianto> And the wiki is written
<popey> We did ask for a welsh translation of ubuntu-uk.org
<JanC> ianto: you can't "aquire" it
<dariusH> JanC: we are organising a release party, and i would like to organise group events such as presentations once we build the group and people will turn up.
<ianto> JanC: To have the DNS key then
<popey> ok, so ianto are you happy for me to mail the Community Council, and cc the loco council, and you on this matter?
<ianto> popey: Yes if you see it fit
<popey> boredandblogging / juliux / JanC / keffie_jayx ?
<ianto> We have already done stuff such as emailing the SW Police  about the benefits of Ubuntu when the French police turned  to it and saved 50M
<juliux> popey: agreed
<JanC> ianto: you can use the ubuntu wiki for now, you know
<popey> and the uk mailing list
<keffie_jayx> popey, I agree as well.
<ianto> JanC: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WelshTeam ;)
<boredandblogging> popey: yup
<boredandblogging> ok, thats its for today
<boredandblogging> thank you everyone!
<aim1159> boredandblogging: thank you!
<kwah> good job
<kwah> thanks all
<hal14450> boredandblogging, thanks for the words of encouragement about the NY team we'll keep plugging away at things here ;-)
<popey> awesome!
<Ahmuck> what is the minimum requirement for a loco as in people?
<hal14450> 2 is a community at the very least right?
<Ahmuck> i ask because we have a lug of 9 who are all using ubuntu and we cover a 9 county area
<cprofitt> Ahmuck, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamKnowledgeBase
<cprofitt> that is there wiki on it...
<cprofitt> what country?
<pleia2> Ahmuck: county? is this in the US?
<Ahmuck> yes, in the US.  were a regional LUG and i promote ubuntu throughout my business and through the LUG
<pleia2> Ahmuck: what state?
<pleia2> in the US, teams are organized on the state level, so there might already be a team you can be part of :)
<nhandler> Could you please move this conversation to #ubuntu-locoteams? The LoCo meeting is over.
<Ahmuck> there is. but as far as i know it's inactive
<Ahmuck> nhandler: yes
<pleia2> Ahmuck: move this to #ubuntu-us or #ubuntu-locoteams?
<pleia2> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-01
 * robbiew waves
 * slangasek waves
 * robbiew is tired of wrestling bug 345714 
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/345714/+text)
<robbiew> who needs virt terms anyways :P
 * mvo is here
<Keybuk> _o/
<cjwatson> here
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * robbiew didn't create an agenda due to wasting too much time debugging bug 345714
<robbiew> :/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345714 in linux "[iGM45] X exits when switching ttys on 2.6.3 unless NoAccel used" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345714
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Meeting time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Meeting time
<robbiew> TheMuso proposes that we take advantage of the DST madness and move the meeting time
<robbiew> curiously...TheMuso is not here :P
<robbiew> we could perhaps move it later...but then I think we would hit the QA timeslot
<robbiew> since no one seems to care...I'll talk it over with TheMuso and make a decision
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Beta Bugs!!!!
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beta Bugs!!!!
<Keybuk> robbiew: I'd appreciate it if it wasn't too much later
<cjwatson> much later is difficult for me on Wednesday, although one hour later is fine
<mvo> robbiew: please make it not too late
<robbiew> heh
<cjwatson> I can do later but it would have to be other days
<robbiew> understand
<Keybuk> anything after 6pm london time is ... maritally difficult ? :)
<robbiew> well...I suspect 2am is much more difficult...which is where it will be for TheMuso
<robbiew> ;)
<Keybuk> doesn't the whole thing get better for him with this DST shift?
<Keybuk> we go +1, they go -1
<cjwatson> depends whether he's getting up late or early
<Keybuk> later just increasingly more am for him - so it'd need to be earlier?
<robbiew> he wakes up early for the meeting
<robbiew> so earlier is not necessarily better ;)
<cjwatson> we've been on this meeting slot for a while, anyway; it wouldn't hurt to rotate
<robbiew> I suppose we could make it a few hours earlier...but then slangasek feels the pain
<cjwatson> I found out about doodle.com recently
<slangasek> 6am, 8am, it's all pain
<cjwatson> lets you hold a poll about comfortable event times and then see the best ones
<slangasek> :)
<robbiew> cjwatson: cool
<robbiew> slangasek: heh
<cjwatson> (the d-i team used this to plan meetings)
<robbiew> I'll check it out, thnx
<robbiew> so...anyone wrestling with nasty Beta bugs?
<liw> I have a bunch of things in computer-janitor :(
<Keybuk> the udev-inotify bugs seem to be settling down
<robbiew> liw: mostly complaints about removing Skype
<cjwatson> I've been beating on bug 347916 most of the day
<robbiew> heh
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 347916 in partman-base "Warns user about the fact that the installation medium is mounted" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/347916
<Keybuk> there's an entertaining one, but nobody has reported it for Ubuntu yet
<cjwatson> I'm confused about bug 349725, for much the same reason as slangasek
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349725 in doc-base "8.04->9.04-beta updgrade: Could not install 'base-passwd'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349725
<robbiew> cjwatson: ah...yeah, I ran into that on (347916)
 * mvo is wrestling with a random apt-get hang and a update-manager-text crash and killed a bunch of python releated upgrade bugs the other day
<slangasek> mvo: 349725 ^^ that one needs your input, if you hadn't seen yet
<mvo> I have seen it, sorry that I have not answered
<mvo> it bites people on intrepid->jaunty and I want something in update-manager to make sure people do not run into it
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> what more needs to be done with python? I saw several universe python2.6 changes in the sponsorship queue
<cjwatson> and Keybuk reported a problem with 2.6 symlinks apparently not being put in place
<mvo> I'm just not sure yet what the best course of action is (SRU for the fixes and focring them to be installed before the upgrade)
<mvo> or life patching (the diff is just one line) when the upgrade starts
<mvo> there is a open issue with a missing python-qt4-dbus link too, but I was not able to reproduce yet
<cjwatson> an SRU would scare me less, I think
<robbiew> the last comment in bug 349367 seems to indicate we should expect more python 2.6 related bugs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349367 in xorg "Mouse pointer render artifacts (renders incorrectly)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349367
<robbiew> bug 349467
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349467 in python2.6 "Many python programs fail with: "undefined symbol: PyUnicodeUCS4_DecodeUTF8"" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349467
<mvo> we should also probably change python-central to actuallly fail to build if a python package  has synatax errors, currently it builds but then fails on the users install
<Keybuk> cjwatson: you'll like the latest udev one - it's not about partitioning
<Keybuk> hdparm opens block devices for writing; so hdparm -y (put the drive to sleep) results in a change event
<robbiew> mvo: +1
<cjwatson> Keybuk: makes a change
<Keybuk> and udev promptly wakes the drive up to run vol_id on it
<cjwatson> lovely
<cjwatson> robbiew: I think that's an overreaction TBH, the broken package wasn't in place that long
<robbiew> cjwatson: ah...Beta Mania
<robbiew> gotcha
<cjwatson> robbiew: I was thinking more of the 2.5->2.6 upgrade in general
<robbiew> cjwatson: right
<ScottK> We're close to having everything installable with 2.6 ( ~10 left I think)
<mvo> I ran a big upgrade test today with ~3000 python releated package (main+universe) and it went fine (after some fixes yesterday)
<mvo> but that does not mean the stuff actually works, python-support warns about 2.6 errors but does not error out
<ScottK> I hit a couple of modules that were installable, but not working without rebuild.
<ScottK> Fixed those of course, dunno what's left.
<cjwatson> ScottK: have you seen evidence of other wider upgrade problems in there (like Keybuk's problem where the rtupdate hook didn't seem to be taking effect)?
<ScottK> cjwatson: The one serious problem I'm aware of is the missing python-qt-dbus symlink that mvo is already looking at.
<ScottK> There are just ones that won't work when someone uses them (in my case import foo failed).
<mvo> (I should say the upgrade test had no package fialure left, the test finished right before the meeting, so I have not had a chance to investigate for problems like the ones Keybuk reported)
<liw> mvo, in your upgrade tests, do you run into conffile prompts? (from dpkg, ucf, or other)
<mvo> liw: no, just apport - and that is expected
<mvo> ScottK: I was not yet able to reproduce the qt/dbus issue, but I will keep trying
<mvo> liw: did python-fstab switch between pycentral and pysupport ever in its lifetime?
<mvo> (or between intrepid and jaunty?)
<liw> mvo, not as far as I can remember
<ScottK> mvo: Thanks.  If nothing else can we add something to update-manager to fix it if we don't get a proper solution?
<cjwatson> bug 349467: our check wasn't quite broad enough. I've asked infinity to rerun with more detail
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349467 in python2.6 "Many python programs fail with: "undefined symbol: PyUnicodeUCS4_DecodeUTF8"" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349467
<mvo> ScottK: yes, but only as last resort. I'm sure more is affected than just this
<liw> mvo, bzr seems to support my memory, for once
<mvo> liw: execllent, thanks
<ScottK> mvo: Definitely last resort.  Thanks.
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News???
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News???
<robbiew> I've seen some positive postings/blogs/articles about boot speed
<cjwatson> any press reactions to the beta so far? I haven't been keeping watch
<robbiew> good job Keybuk
<slangasek> \o/
<dholbach> http://www.tuxradar.com/content/ubuntu-rewrite-linux-kernel-using-mono says we get a Mono kernel into Jaunty!
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.tuxradar.com/content/ubuntu-rewrite-linux-kernel-using-mono says we get a Mono kernel into Jaunty!
<robbiew> http://www.pcworld.com/article/162129/ubuntu_jaunty_beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.pcworld.com/article/162129/ubuntu_jaunty_beta.html
<robbiew> dholbach: ha ha...April Fools :/
<robbiew> ok...well I got my own bugs to get back to...plus a million ToDos
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:31.
<robbiew> thnx all
<slangasek> thanks :)
<liw> thanks
<james_w> thanks
<mvo> Keybuk: joy! I can reproduce the problem you mentioned that stuff for python2.6 is not linked. at least python-fstab, probably more
<cjwatson> that pcworld article is "nothing major wrong, nothing exciting"
<cjwatson> roughly
<Keybuk> mvo: I think it was python-openid and python-tz that I first noticed it with
<Keybuk> oh!
<Keybuk> no
<Keybuk> it was python-psycopg2
<robbiew> cjwatson: yeah
<robbiew> cjwatson: though some of the comments are interesting
<cjwatson> Keybuk: I see that that review mentions e4defrag - do you share my opinion that we should steer clear until it's part of an e2fsprogs release?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: definitely
<Keybuk> ext4 is not yet stable enough to be rearranged at a whim
<cjwatson> yeah, that's what I thought
<cjwatson> the only real meat in the comments is the lack of libdvdcss, which isn't something we can do much about
<mvo> Keybuk: did you file a bug already? if not I will do that just to keep track of the issue
<cjwatson> also gradual improvement in driver detection and the like
<Keybuk> mvo: no, I wasn't sure whether I was just hallucinating
<Keybuk> or whether it had been reported yet
<dholbach> are any teams having a meeting in 15m?
<bdmurray> maybe foundations?
<dholbach> no, that was before already
<dholbach> ok... in that case, the room belongs to us for a bit :)
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<bdmurray> okay then it should be clear the qa team is in 1:15
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:49. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> we're here for an impromptu MOTU Council meeting because of some misscheduling we had with the last one
<dholbach> who do we have here?
<jpds> Hello.
<dholbach> jpds, nixternal, geser?
<dholbach> :-)
 * geser is here
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Brian Murray's MOTU application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Brian Murray's MOTU application
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrianMurray/MOTUapplication
<dholbach> bdmurray: how are you doing? :)
<nixternal> yo yo
<bdmurray> dholbach: Great, thanks!
<nhandler> Hey
<dholbach> bdmurray: You work with lots and lots of good QA and Bug Squad people every day - do you think it'd be possible to have a greater overlap between the MOTU and the QA team?
<dholbach> hey nhandler :)
<bdmurray> dholbach: Certainly, one thing I'd like to work on and having been working on is improving the patch workflow i.e. properly identifying patches and getting them sponsored.
<dholbach> bdmurray: or to ask differently: do you think there's anything that's too complicated at the moment for people to go from "bug triage" to "bug fix"?
<bdmurray> dholbach: I get the feeling that some of the MOTU documentation is focussed on creating new packages when I think its more desirable to have people improving the packages we already have.
<dholbach> bdmurray: some of the MOTU or PackagingGuide documentation certainly has that focus
<nhandler> bdmurray: I was looking through the different -changes mailing lists, and most of your uploads were for python-launchpad-bugs and bughelper. If you were to become a MOTU, would you still be sticking to mainly these 2 packages, or would you try to branch out a little?
 * ScottK says +1 for improving packages.
 * dholbach saw a bunch of Brian Murray uploads in the last 3-4 months
<bdmurray> nhandler: I've also done some work with apt-cacher and firefox-launchpad-plugin both of which I'd like to keep an eye on.  Additionally, since I created the ubuntu-qa-tools project I'll be keeping an eye on its package too.
<bdmurray> nhandler: So yes, I'd like to branch out.
<geser> bdmurray: have you done any merges or sync till now? after a look at your uploads I could only find inclusions of patches
<bdmurray> geser: I did an update of makeztxt during Jaunty's cycle
<bdmurray> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/makeztxt
<dholbach> I think I remember a few patches that you sent to Debian too, right?
<bdmurray> Yes in bug 331535, I forwarded the patch upstream and it became a sync request.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 331535 in iperf "sync request - iperf fails to die when bind fails" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/331535
<geser> bdmurray: what about merging ubuntu changes with a new revision from Debian?
<bdmurray> Additionally, in bug 313260 I forwarded the patch to Debian and updated the Ubuntu package.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 313260 in imdb-tools "imdb-get doesn't work at all" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/313260
<nhandler> I am sorry, but I have to leave early for personal reasons.
<bdmurray> geser: No, I haven't done much of that.
 * nhandler leaves
<dholbach> nhandler: take care
<nixternal> sorry, had a phone call
 * nixternal catches up quickly
<dholbach> jpds: are there any questions that you have?
<jpds> It looks good to me.
<dholbach> bdmurray: I'd be really interested to start working with you on the "you triaged bugs, OK, start fixing them" part of things.... is there anything from your personal experience that you found more difficult than it should have been?
<dholbach> nixternal: any questions from you?
<bdmurray> dholbach: When you look at a bug report about a piece of software you aren't familiar with I think it takes a bit too much effort to determine what the primary programming language and the patch system for that package are.
<bdmurray> If a new contributor is familiar with python how can they find packages in universe to look at?
<geser> bdmurray: as you haven't done a merge with Debian till now: how will you handle your first merges when you are a MOTU?
<nixternal> dholbach: doing some research, 1 minute :)
<ScottK> bdmurray: The answer to that one is look for packages subscribed to the pythonistas team.
<bdmurray> geser: I'll follow the documenation, ask for help if I get stuck and ask for someone to review it before I actually perform it.
<bdmurray> ScottK: That is fairly obscure.
<ScottK> bdmurray: Extremely.
<dholbach> to me it smells like we need some better kind of "fix bugs" portal :)
<dholbach> nixternal, geser, jpds: do you have any more questions?
 * dholbach is all set
<geser> no questions left
<jpds> Neither.
<nixternal> good to go
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Brian Murray become MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Brian Murray become MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jpds> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> #endvote
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<dholbach> congratulations bdmurray!
<nixternal> congrats bdmurray and welcome :)
<jpds> Congrats bdmurray!
<bdmurray> Thanks everyone!
<nixternal> word to the wise, do not do:  grep '\[\ \ bdmurray\]' \#ubuntu*.log
<dholbach> jpds, nixternal, geser: anyone of you who'd like to do the honours? if not, I'll do it in a bit
<ogra> bdmurray, SAVE THE UNIVERSE !!!
<ogra> (and congrats :) )
 * nixternal points at jpds to do the honours
<nixternal> let him get his feet wet with this one :D
<jpds> I'll do it.
<dholbach> jpds: thanks a bunch!
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<dholbach> ...probably not
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:14.
<dholbach> Thanks a lot everybody!
<ara> hey hey
<pedro_> hello everybody
<heno> hey all!
 * fader_ waves.
<bdmurray> hi
<davmor2> Hello
<sbeattie> hey
<heno> jtholmes: did you want to add an item to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings ?
<jtholmes> yes do i have edit permissions
<heno> schwuk, ogasawara: qa meeting ping
<ogasawara> I'm here
<heno> hi!
<heno> ok, let's go!
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> lots of agenda items: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> bdmurray: congratulations on becoming a MOTU!
<bdmurray> pedro_: You are jumping ahead!  Thanks though.
<jtholmes> heno item  more structure to kde desktop testing
<pedro_> ;-)
<heno> congrats bdmurray!!
 * heno crosses out item 3 :)
<ara> congrats bdmurray!
<pedro_> Ok we didn't had a hug day the past week
<pedro_> but we're going to have a Xorg based one Tomorrow
<pedro_> it's going to be based specifically on xorg-server and xserver-xorg-video-intel
<pedro_> bryce did an amazing job helping us to get the hug day page on a good shape
<heno> pedro_: and I understand you've talked to the desktop folks
<bdmurray> pedro_: I noticed that bryce removed New bugs from the bug day.  That's a really interesting process of his.
<pedro_> and as you can see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090402 there's already people working on it
<pedro_> heno: yeps, as we discussed on previous meetings , we're going to start adding the hug days as an agenda items for the teams
<sbeattie> bdmurray: any idea what the reasoning for him doing that?
<heno> pedro_: great
<mnemo> if bryce is planning to merge mesa 7.4, then it would be nice to have that done before the testday begins
<bdmurray> sbeattie: not specifically, I think he checks for attachments and if they don't exist then asks for them.
<ara> I would like to add that bryce also sent announcements to several mailing list, it is great to see how he got involved
<bdmurray> It'd be interesting to talk to him about it and find out how well it works.
<bdmurray> I imagine there are some errors but I wonder if the rate is acceptable and if it might work for the kernel.
<heno> mnemo: it's a bug triage day, not really a testing day
<heno> ok, moving on
<heno> [TOPIC] New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<bdmurray> No new members this week but we have a couple of applications pending.
<heno> ok, are those waiting for bugs lists etc to be submitted?
<bdmurray> heno: No, they are in the 1 week review period.
<heno> ok
<heno> [TOPIC] Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD -- ara|sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD -- ara|sbeattie
<ara> There was not much movement on the latest testing day
<ara> davmor2 not being there was noticed :D
<davmor2> sorry wifi was dead on the site :)
<ara> there were people coming around asking for the testing day, but in the end they didn't do much
<ara> how can we promote more activity on testing days?
<ara> I see that people are interested, but maybe our way to run them is innerly wrong
<heno> I guess it's better when we have proper test plans
<heno> this was more of a test improv jam
<sbeattie> hrm, maybe a suspend-resume testing day, where we have an explicit test, but need a wide variety of people/hardware?
<sbeattie> or other hardware related testing, again where we can start with recipes?
<davmor2> hmm nice
<heno> good one, that's easy for people to do
<heno> ogasawara: do we have a good flow of reports from suspend testing already?
<ogasawara> heno: yes, too many
<heno> at what point running up to release to they stop being useful
<ogasawara> heno:  at the point where we/kernel team can't keep up with them
<bdmurray> Isn't kernel freeze tomorrow?
<sbeattie> heno: again, audio might make an interesting test day, particularly if we can come up with recipes/sample audio situations that should work.
<heno> ogasawara: too many detailed reports or too many false reports/noise?
<sbeattie> bdmurray: the apr 9th, unless google calender is lying to me again.
<ogasawara> heno: most are people sending in reports because apport asked
<ogasawara> heno: so I've been trying to stock reply a lot of them
<heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule says 9th
<ogasawara> heno: I've also been chatting with pete about triaging in general
<bdmurray> Okay, that's still soon though!
<sbeattie> bdmurray: agreed!
<ogasawara> heno: and how the kernel team can help
<heno> ogasawara: so that's more about people triggering thr apport hook rather than running the full test
<heno> bdmurray: agree - very soon in this context
<ogasawara> heno: yes, it's not obvious if it was triggered as a direct result of running the tst
<heno> ok
<heno> ogasawara: ok, great. let's pick up that conversation on our next call
<heno> so ...
<heno> audio is a candidate - also server testing
<heno> the server team have been quite keen to get additional test coverage
<heno> I thought we could have one about extending automated test coverage on server
<heno> starting with the security team tests
<cr3> heno: I already have a head start on that one, but more help would definatly be appreciated
<cr3> I mostly have server team tests though, so there's probably little overlap with security team tests
<sbeattie> cr3: very little
<heno> cr3: can you share your work so far?
<heno> is it in LP?
<cr3> heno: nope, only local
<heno> if we can bring server, security and checkbox folks together we might make some progress
<sbeattie> kees from the security team was receptive to this when I talked to him yesterday about it.
<heno> cr3: would it make sense to add the security collection to the same package?
<heno> unfortunately their meeting day is Tuesday
<heno> We only have one testing day before release ...
<cr3> heno: there might be considerations for doing that
<heno> the weeks after are both smoke testing days
<cr3> heno: if the security team tests are overwhelmingly big, for example, I'd think about having them in a package twice
<cr3> heno: furthermore, I think that security team integration should be done through bzr rather than included in the package
<heno> my hunch is to do audio next Monday and work on the server automation stuff separately
<ara> what kind of testing would you do on audio'
<ara> ?
<ara> heno: ^
<cr3> heno: the motivation is that security concerns are timely, so they need to be able to run tests immediately from their branch instead of having to wait for a package to get deployed
<cr3> sbeattie: ^^^ sounds good to you?
<ara> btw, are you guys hit by the PA crakling noise bug?
<sbeattie> cr3: yes.
<heno> there are a series of tests here http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Hardware for audio
<davmor2> ara: seemed to of cleared up after todays updates
<heno> also, popular VoIP software
<ara> heno: hehehe
<eeejay> and orca, perhaps?
<heno> indeed
<heno> eeejay: that's still not playing nice with pulse right?
<heno> eeejay: could you add a basic Orca case to http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com ?
<eeejay> heno: nope, and in jaunty i noticed that PA is respawned once it is killed, so i didn't manage to get functioning orca
<eeejay> heno: will do
<heno> hm, so people just uninstall it?
<heno> it did work for me in my ISO smoke testing
<heno> but admitedly that was shallow
<heno> any other strong views on the testing day tpic?
<eeejay> heno, after a few tabs it stops speaking for me
<heno> *topic
<heno> hm, ok
<heno> ara: it's your call :)
<ara> heno: sorry?
<heno> ara: as the driver for testing days I think you should make the final decision on the next topic
<ara> heno: I think I would vote for audio, indeed
<heno> ok, settled
<heno> thanks
<heno> [TOPIC] Call for UDS topics -- heno
<MootBot> New Topic:  Call for UDS topics -- heno
<heno> It's time to start thinking about UDS topics!
<ara> topic: audio! triaging bugs, reporting better audio bugs, scaling them, etc, etc, etc, :-)
<heno> Please add suggestions to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/UDSKarmic
<heno> good one
<bdmurray> An apport hook for audio bugs would be good
<ara> bdmurray: indeed
<bdmurray> Except they are currently mixed in the linux package
<davmor2> bdmurray: +1
<heno> we should make a burn down chart for apport hook coverage
<bdmurray> perhaps if we sent them back to alsa-driver then we could have a hook for that package
<bdmurray> ogasawara: maybe you could bring that up at your sprint?
<ara> bdmurray: I suggested pitti to give away t-shirts reading "I report my bugs using apport"
<bdmurray> ara: hahah
<sbeattie> heh.
<heno> what is a realistic first goal? apport hooks for all main packages?
<sbeattie> main is a lot; installed by default might be a better goal.
<bdmurray> sbeattie and I talked about this before and we should look at the packages with the greatest volume of bugs first and move down that list
<heno> makes sense
<heno> good UDS topic
<heno> next
<heno> [TOPIC] Bugs since sometime -- bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bugs since sometime -- bdmurray
<bdmurray> Just in case you haven't heard I've made a bugs since Beta report
<bdmurray> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bugnumbers/bugs-since-2009-03-26.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bugnumbers/bugs-since-2009-03-26.html
<heno> already populated with bugs :)
<heno> from the New and Confirmed state AFAIK - why confirmed and not Incomplete?
<davmor2> bdmurray: a couple then
<bdmurray> "using the theories that the bug is missing information if it is Incomplete and somebody who knows what they are doing looked at it if it is Triaged."
<bdmurray> So bugcontrol can work on moving the Confirmed ones to Triaged and targetting for the release if necessary
<heno> as explained here http://www.murraytwins.com/blog/?p=40 :)
<heno> ok, great
<davmor2> found a dupe already :)
<heno> [TOPIC] Patch flagging tools -- bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  Patch flagging tools -- bdmurray
<heno> see http://www.murraytwins.com/blog/?p=41
<bdmurray> As a part of the patch workflow process it helps to make sure attachments are properly flagged as patches and that patches really are patches and not something else.
<bdmurray> I've thrown a couple of tools to make this easier in ubuntu-qa-tools.
<bdmurray> They make it a one step process to (un)flag the attachment and add a comment about the what you did and the importance of flagging them properly.
<pedro_> nice, and we're running a bugs with patches hug day next week ;-)
<heno> bdmurray: these are command line tools accepting bug# as an argument, right?
<pedro_> we can ask people to test those tools there
<bdmurray> right something like check-patch-comment.py 355778
<heno> cool
<heno> jtholmes: did you have a topic?
<jtholmes> yes i was wondering about structured test plans and if there are any
<jtholmes> i saw the link above but have not had time to check
<jtholmes> specific numbered test plans work the best
<jtholmes> comments
<heno> jtholmes: davmor2  can probably fill you in on the state of test plans for Kubuntu AFAIR that was your focus)
<davmor2> jtholmes: what like these http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Applications
<jtholmes> yes that was my intended focus
<davmor2> not written yet but will have a scheme similar to the above
<heno> let's leave that for next week then, after you've charted what we currently have
<jtholmes> davmor2 yes something like that now that i know where some are i will look them over
<heno> Any other topics?
<jtholmes> sure good
<fader_> I just wanted to bring up one quick thing
<fader_> I have a "sanity checking" script I've started on to help with iso testing to determine if the install worked from a first-blush analysis
<fader_> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/sanity.sh
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/sanity.sh
<fader_> If anyone has any ideas to add to this or improve it let me know... I'll try to get it cleaned up and in a state where we can use it in iso testing
<heno> fader_: looks good, thanks
<ara> fader_: what does the script do?
<heno> we'll make sure to use it for RC testing
<fader_> ara: at the moment it does some very simple checks to see if the most important directories and files exist and have the right permissions
<fader_> (think /bin, /etc/passwd, etc.)
<fader_> And checks a few things like making sure there's a network device detected, a working package manager (dpkg)
<bdmurray> fader_: there was a bug at the end of the last release cycle with permissions that'd be good to add too
<fader_> bdmurray: Excellent, if you can point me at where to find that I'll add it
<heno> right, that was the inspiration for this
<fader_> bdmurray: (or give me a bit of context and I'll find it in LP)
<sbeattie> fader_: yeah, the security has something vaguely similar now, but there's elements that can be merged
<davmor2> fader_: good call after last release with the slight hiccup in permissions
<cr3> fader_: it would be nice if you could contain each test in its own standalone script, so that you can run them individually
<fader_> The idea is just to make sure we have the absolute basics of a working Linux system installed :)
<cr3> fader_: if you did that, your tests could be integrated into other suites like checkbox, shunit, etc.
<fader_> cr3: I can break it out like that but I'm leery of making it too unwieldy -- I'd like to have something we can ask people to run and just get a quick error count (of 0 we hope) after an install
<fader_> Though heno and I discussed getting it into checkbox and asking people to run that instead
<bdmurray> fader_: also if you could add a check for bug 274069 that'd be great too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274069 in dhcp3 "error send_packet:message too long" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274069
<cr3> fader_: keep the separate in your project, use a Makefile to concatenate them together
<ara> fader_: the bug about the permissions: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/290798
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 290798 in ubiquity "Permissions on /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.27-7-generic are -rw-rw-rw after installation" [Critical,Fix released]
<bdmurray> basically MTU greater than 576 I think
<fader_> cr3: sounds good, I'll work with you to figure out how to get it into CB properly
<fader_> bdmurray, ara: thanks, I'll look at those bugs and see what I can add
<cr3> fader_: whether it be eventually integrated or not is one thing, I'm only expressing concern to make it "integratable"
<fader_> Anyone else that has suggestions please drop me a line :)
<heno> all sounds good!
<heno> 3 min left, AOB?
<heno> thanks everyone!
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:58.
<ara> thanks!
<davmor2> ta
<eeejay> cheers :)
<pedro_> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-02
<hoover> hhi
 * persia peers about
<persia> Who's here for the Java Meeting?
<persia> OK.  Nobody here :)  Meeting adjourned.
<bittin`> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090402
<ogra> moo
<ogra> so why do i have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/34850 assigned on the agenda ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 34850 in gnome-panel "some menus have icons but no text (dup-of: 29640)" [High,Fix released]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 29640 in glib2.0 "Buggy menu with locale set to iso" [Medium,Fix released]
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * davidm_ is wide awake.
 * ogra doesnt want to fix icons in dapper !
<StevenK> That are already fixed!
<ogra> as well !
 * ogra wonders what that was originally before emmet typoed it
 * NCommander tries to remember what comes first
<lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090402
<StevenK> NCommander: [LINK] that
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090402
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090402
<NCommander> [topic] persia to investigate #338148
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia to investigate #338148
<StevenK> ENOPERSIA :-(
<NCommander> This and # persia to chase VFP for cairo, ffmpeg, gtk+2.0  c/o
<lool> co
<ogra> co
<NCommander> [topic] lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1
<lool> I saw a couple of patches for VFP stuff from persia
<ogra> heh
<lool> No progress on EC2 stuff; I'll get to it as soon as I don't have anything "critical" on my plate
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope
<lool> c/o
<ogra> ++
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to register a new spec for a GUI to assist with kernel addition to arm images
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to register a new spec for a GUI to assist with kernel addition to arm images
<ogra> co
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to rebuild gnome-keyring-daemon to troubleshoot 328167
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to rebuild gnome-keyring-daemon to troubleshoot 328167
<ogra> next one too
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to report on libgcc-vfp benchmark results
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to report on libgcc-vfp benchmark results
<lool> 34850 is cut
<lool> ogra: What's the bug number for the workaround you had to document?
 * ogra wouldnt have guessed :)
<NCommander> Reported. Not much of a speed increase, might have been measuring noise.
<NCommander> [topic] Roadmap Review
<ogra> lool, i'm trying to find out since the meeting started
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap Review
<lool> NCommander: paus
<lool> pause
 * NCommander pauses
<lool> So just to comment on the libgcc-vfp stuff: it was expected they wouldn't make a big difference because it's a software implementation in all cases, and doesn't use floats
<lool> Even with relevant flags
<ogra> if my evo wouldnt take a century to generate a list ... sigh
<lool> end of apartÃ© on vfp
<lool> Let's just wait to find out which bug that was for ogra
<ogra> Bug 348504
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348504 in linux "USB issues with linux-image-2.6.28-11-imx51 fill /var/log" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348504
<ogra> there we go
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to report workaround for #348504
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to report workaround for #348504
<ogra> fixed in todays linux package, fine from tomorrow on on the image
<lool> 348504
<lool> Argh, too late
<ogra> workaround not needed anymore
<NCommander> Cool
<ogra> heh, evo is faster than lool
<NCommander> can I go onto Roadmap review?
<lool> Yes
<ogra> yup
<NCommander> [topic] Spec: offline-installer
<MootBot> New Topic:  Spec: offline-installer
<ogra> np
<ogra> (no progress)
<NCommander> I'll skip mobile-setup-wizard, since ENOEMMET
<NCommander> [topic] Spec: arm-library-optimization (lool)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Spec: arm-library-optimization (lool)
<lool> That's the vfp opts we covered on the items from last week already
<lool> 2 patches ready, but still not tested or pushed and 3 to go
<lool> So it's getting late here; but Emmet is on travel
<NCommander> [topic]  general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:   general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling (ogra)
<ogra> np
<ogra> ETOOMUCHARM
<ogra> s
<NCommander> [topic] arm-softboot-loader (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm-softboot-loader (NCommander)
<NCommander> Had a few ideas, but ETOOMUCHARM :-)
<NCommander> Will hopefully draft something soon
<NCommander> [topic] select-of-arm-images (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  select-of-arm-images (ogra)
 * NCommander fails
<NCommander> [topic] selection-of-arm-images (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  selection-of-arm-images (ogra)
<ogra> well, somewhat implemented through the babbage image
<ogra> no kernel-iso merge tool needed for that atm, beyond that my script surely can work as one
<NCommander> Are we just going to have a standard desktop, or are we also going to try for UNR/MID/alternate as well?
<ogra> not this round
<ogra> but i'd like to in KK
<lool> We don't have enough time for testing all these flavours for ARM
<NCommander> Fair enough.
<NCommander> anything else?
<lool> I think we want them, but we might have to drop others if we want to be able to complete testing of all images in short time
<NCommander> could we just release them unsupported?
<ogra> unr wouldnt work on framebuffer, would it ?
<lool> Well it "would"
<ogra> NCommander, we can finish my script so people can roll them
<lool> But no it wouldn't
<NCommander> ogra, awesome :-)
<ogra> its only missing tiny bits to roll an alternate
<NCommander> [topic] lpia-verus-i386
<MootBot> New Topic:  lpia-verus-i386
<ogra> i just dont have time to care for that
<lool> So I have nothing new to report as usual, but I really need to file a ticket to prepare the wrapper before karmic opens
<GrueMaster> I was thinking of testing i386 with lpia optimized kernel after Jaunty release.
<lool> So I really had to do something on this this week and didn't, and should jump on it real soon now
<NCommander> GrueMaster, there aren't that many changes from the lpia kernel to the i386
<ogra> lool, i'll take over the cdimage integration completely on monday i think
<NCommander> I did however get the lpia kernel at a point where we can get alternates going with them (hopefully)
<GrueMaster> no, but there are enough.
<ogra> so you can care for the stuff you are behind on
<lool> NCommander: cool
<lool> ogra: Ok
<NCommander> ENOPERSIA so I'll skip mobile-spec-cleanup
<NCommander> Onto the bugs
<NCommander> [topic] bug #299847: libipc-sharelite-perl FTBFS on armel (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #299847: libipc-sharelite-perl FTBFS on armel (NCommander)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299847 in linux "Shared memory operations on very fast ARM hardware suffer from non-atomic operations and race conditions." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299847
<bittin`> is the meeting starting now?
<lool> bittin`: we're in the middle of it
<NCommander> bittin`, which meeting?
<NCommander> np, I'm not going to touch this one again until I can reproduce it somewhere beside rimu because I suspect its a kernel issue with the Marvel kernel.
<NCommander> ^that we use on the buildds
<lool> NCommander: We need a test case to file the kernel bug upstream
<bittin`> lool: ah ok i tought it started 1mina go
<bittin`> *1min
<lool> Or just to blame the kernel
<NCommander> lool, I can't reproduce one
<NCommander> lool, I reimplemented the entire test suite in C, and can not reproduce
<StevenK> bittin`: It was started 17 minutes ago
<ogra> just blame infinity
<NCommander> Something about the code passing through perl is causing it to explode
<lool> Anyway, this is unmilestoned for jaunty, we don't need to track it too closely
<NCommander> Should we scratch it from the roadmap?
<lool> I'm ok with that, but we really need to keep it in our TODO, and I don't know how much we'll care about it if we drop it :)
<NCommander> I'll leave it then
<lool> Unless we switch buildds
<lool> In which case we wont care nearly as much
<ogra> add a section for it :)
<ogra> (on the roadmap)
<NCommander> "Stuff we don't care about" :-)?
<ogra> "stuff we dont want to lose"
 * lool adds himself to the section
<ogra> (but totally dont care abouit :P)
<davidm_> lool, new buildd hardware is very likely
 * NCommander adds himself
<NCommander> [topic] bug #328167: gnome-keyring-daemon eats all CPU on ARM when starting a GNOME session
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #328167: gnome-keyring-daemon eats all CPU on ARM when starting a GNOME session
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328167 in gnome-keyring "[arm] gnome-keyring-daemon eating 100% CPU at login in Jaunty" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328167
<ogra> no progress yet
<NCommander> [topic] bug #280669: DMA mode and driver on jax10 (NCommander/lool)
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #280669: DMA mode and driver on jax10 (NCommander/lool)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280669 in linux "DMA mode and driver jax10" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280669
<NCommander> Finished testing on this one in a fit of frustation. No improvement with apw's kernel vs the lpia mainline. I think we can mark this one Invalid.
<NCommander> lool, any comments?
<lool> NCommander: Ask apw whether there's anything you could check or whether we should drop it?
<NCommander> [ACTION] NCommander to ask apw if we should kill #280669
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to ask apw if we should kill #280669
<NCommander> [TOPIC] bug #338148: VNC4 FTBFS (persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #338148: VNC4 FTBFS (persia)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338148
<lool> c/o
<NCommander> If this is still a high priority thing vs. other things on the ARM todo, I'd like to cooridinate with persia on it
<lool> (persia isn't here)
<lool> Sure, feel free
<NCommander> Right, I just wanted to make that comment :-)
 * ogra still doesnt get why thats on mobile todo
<NCommander> [topic] bug #348504: USB issues with linux-image-2.6.28-11-imx51 fill /var/log
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348504 in linux "USB issues with linux-image-2.6.28-11-imx51 fill /var/log" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348504
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #348504: USB issues with linux-image-2.6.28-11-imx51 fill /var/log
<lool> ogra: armel porting
<ogra> released
<ogra> drop
<NCommander> cool
<ogra> lool, totally unrelated to armel
<NCommander> [topic] bug #348660: ubiquity crashes in bootloader install on imx51
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #348660: ubiquity crashes in bootloader install on imx51
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348660 in ubiquity "ubiquity unsets ubiquity/install_bootloader=false at some point during installation" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348660
<ogra> fixed, drop
<NCommander> [topic] bug:#347350: oem-config-firstboot does not fit in 1024x600
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug:#347350: oem-config-firstboot does not fit in 1024x600
<ogra> there were other bugs that would deserve the first part of the title
<lool> ogra: There are binaries for other arches and on armel it's uninstallable
<ogra> but cjwatson did an awesome job and next ubiquity upload should fix all of them
<NCommander> bug #347350
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 347350 in oem-config "oem-config-firstboot does not fit in 1024x600" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/347350
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> there it is
<NCommander> Can I scratch this one to?
<NCommander> *too
<ogra> that was davidm_'s pet bug
<lool> dropped
<ogra> ask him
<lool> davidm_: ^
<davidm_> scratch
<NCommander> yay!
<NCommander> [topic] #344449: Installer puts up confusing message about partitions in use
<MootBot> New Topic:  #344449: Installer puts up confusing message about partitions in use
<ogra> bug #344449
<NCommander> thanks ogasawara
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 344449 in netbook-remix "Installer puts up confusing message about partitions in use (dup-of: 346589)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/344449
<NCommander> ... ogra
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 346589 in ubiquity "[Jaunty] Misleading information when installing with mounted partitions" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346589
<NCommander> Why'd it return two bugs?
<ogra> dupe
<ogra> fix released, drop it
<lool> dropped already
<NCommander> lool, I'm editing the page, so I'll drop it once I'm done
<NCommander> [topic] bug #319825: acer_wmi in Jaunty on Aspire One exposes non-functional (always disabled) rfkill devic
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #319825: acer_wmi in Jaunty on Aspire One exposes non-functional (always disabled) rfkill devic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 319825 in linux "acer_wmi in Jaunty on Aspire One exposes non-functional (always disabled) rfkill device" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319825
<lool> All last bugs dropped
<lool> fix released
<GrueMaster> Will retest once new kernel is in the image.
<lool> NCommander: I dropped them all from the page already
<NCommander> Cool
<NCommander> lool, I was editing the page to split it into high and low priority, and then removing the ones we fixed
<NCommander> [topic] Babbage enablement (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Babbage enablement (ogra)
<lool> wifi needs testing
<ogra> worked a lot on the installability
<ogra> daily images will show up on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/arm/babbage/ until the cdimage integration is fully there
<lool> "Avoid standard USB prefer micro USB" recommended by FSL
<ogra> wifi will be enabled in tomorrows image so please test if you have the HW
<ogra> installer bits should show up around saturday
<ogra> latest on monday, from then on it should be fully installable
<ogra> redboot MIRs all approved, all packages in main now
<ogra> thats about it ...
<NCommander> Did FSL's ethernet patches get uploaded?
<ogra> yes
<NCommander> Cool
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Benchmarking (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Benchmarking (NCommander)
<ogra> the kernel should be relativcely stable now
<NCommander> Already reported, nothing new on this topic (not excepting anything new either)
<NCommander> [topic] lool's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool's status
<ogra> exhausted ?
<NCommander> ogra, no, that's a general team status bit we just have set :-)
<ogra> dead already ?
<lool> ogra: :)
<lool> Bah too many urgent things at once in the last 2 weeks
<ogra> ++
<davidm_> NCommander, make sure you refresh the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090402 page
<lool> But it's ok now, getting the hold of it again, lots of stuff to do still
<NCommander> lool, +1
<NCommander> davidm_, MootBot sends me the notes as I make them, I'll update that as soon as we finish the meeting
<ogra> we can all fall over in three weeks
<NCommander> ogra, do we have a bug open in advance for that? :-)
<davidm_> NCommander, cool
<NCommander> That it lool ?
<lool> Yeah, do we really have per people status?
<lool> I don't think we've had that in the past weeks did we?
<ogra> i thoght we dropped that on purpose
<NCommander> We've done it in previous weeks
<NCommander> Oh, we did?
<lool> Like 2 months ago
<davidm_> Not really we dropped that
<ogra> yes
<ogra> when we invented the roadmap
<NCommander> Shows how awake I'm at the normal meeting time.
<NCommander> s/normal/old/g
<davidm_> There are still some opens on the page however
<ogra> yeah
<davidm_> thus the refresh the page
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> right
<davidm_> reload, what ever
<NCommander> [topic] cat makes MID explode (StevenK/GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  cat makes MID explode (StevenK/GrueMaster)
<ogra> PAPERWORK threatening !!!
<ogra> heh, NCommander skipped it deliberately :)
<GrueMaster> no progress this week, as I've been focusing on unr/babbage/beta
<NCommander> ogra, yes I did :-), that one can come before we close
<StevenK> This needs a bug, but I'm uncertain which package to assign it against
<davidm_> StevenK, ubuntu?
<ogra> StevenK, dog :)
<GrueMaster> Will resume next week.  Aso, I have been able to reliably get it to fail by clicking on the battery indicator.
<lool> hildon-desktop
<StevenK> Ubuntu is a project, not a package
<lool> I'm pretty sure it's the one dying
<davidm_> lool true
<NCommander> StevenK, you can still place bugs against it without putting it against a package
<StevenK> NCommander: Sure, I just hate doing that, since they're liable to get lost
<NCommander> StevenK, thats why we have the roadmap
<bittin`> yepp u can
<GrueMaster> I did look and there is a newer version of Hildon-desktop on maemo.org.  Not sure if it is released yet.  Will need to look at the change logs.
<StevenK> It's far too late for that sort of change
<NCommander> StevenK, we can see if it was fixed and backport the change if needbe
<GrueMaster> understand, but maybe backporting a patch?
<StevenK> Oh, absolutely
<StevenK> hildon-desktop tends to resist that, given my experience with it
<ogra> probably they learned ...
<GrueMaster> I'll dive into it next week, though.
<ogra> you never know
<NCommander> StevenK, maybe we can get lucky and its a small patch we can fish out of the git repo
<StevenK> Anyway, I'll file a bug today
<NCommander> [topic] Specifications for Karmic (davidm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specifications for Karmic (davidm)
 * ogra hides
 * StevenK hides with ogra 
 * NCommander vanishes
<davidm_> It's that time again, UDS is around the corner
<ogra> do we know whats ahead wrt ARM ?
<GrueMaster> StevenK  I think I already saw a bug.  I'll do a search after the meeting.
<ogra> apart from "make babbage shinier"
<davidm_> And we are trying to have the schedule done much earlier so start thinking about spec's to be filed so I can start scheduling
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Oh, excellent.
<NCommander> I think we need to get arm-softbootloader there
<davidm_> ogra, Babbage continues, UNR images will happen
<NCommander> Given our experience with Babbage I think we're going to need it once we add more SoCs
<NCommander> if only for a sanity reason.
 * StevenK adds a spec for that
<ogra> davidm_, not without X drivers
<davidm_> so all arm and unr stuff need to get added next week and the week after if at all possible
<NCommander> StevenK, we have one from Jaunty.
<davidm_> ogra, yea I know
<StevenK> NCommander: Not UNR on ARM, we don't
<davidm_> but if we have images ready it's easier to push for the drivers.
<ogra> StevenK, read what davidm_ wrote :)
<ogra> we will
<StevenK> I just think we should get a spec registered so we can have a session about it
<lool> Well we need at least one supported platform with 3D
<NCommander> davidm_, I just submitted arm-softboot-loader
<davidm_> Anyway we don't need a long conversation now, it's just a heads up that spec's are going to be needed (at least for scheduling purposes) they can be fully fleshed out later.
<ogra> as usual
<davidm_> Yep
<davidm_> thanks for my 20 seconds in the sunlight ;-P
<lool> Anything else?
<davidm_> Not from me
 * davidm_ runs away and hides
<NCommander> [topic] Any Open Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Open Business
<ogra> doesnt look like
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shadow/+bug/349504
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349504 in shadow "if system date is set to 01-01-1970 users are enforced to update their password" [High,In progress]
<NCommander> We have a possible fix for it
<ogra> unless persia secretly showed up
<NCommander> SO that should hopefully be closed within the next 24 hours
<NCommander> I think thats the only major bug we are currently tracking thats not on the roadmap
<ogra> just make cjwatson look at it if he finds the time, i think your fix is good so far (changing 0 to 1 if the clock is 01-01-1970)
 * davidm thinks the person trying to use my nick should cut that out.
<NCommander> ogra, that isn't the fick :-P
 * ogra just saw him flaying out of #beagle :)
<NCommander> davidm, protect it with nickserv
<StevenK> If you're registered with nickserv, you can ghost them
<davidm> NCommander, it is, that is how I get it back everytime
<NCommander> davidm, then enable password protection so they get kicked out within 30 seconds
 * NCommander has it so if anyone tries to use any of my three nicks, you get booted within 30 seconds :-)
<StevenK> I think Freenode disables killing
<davidm> NCommander, that you can tell be about off line
<NCommander> StevenK, its a forced rename
<NCommander> davidm, cool
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> so going 1
<NCommander> twice
<lool> 'night
<NCommander> thrice
<StevenK> SOL!
<ogra> night !
<StevenK> Er, SOLD!
<davidm> lool, night
<NCommander> That's it folks
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:47.
 * ogra falls over and starts snoring
<davidm> Woot, finished early
<davidm> night ogra
 * NCommander grabs ogra's feet and drags him back to #ubuntu-mobile
<bittin`> by :p
<bittin`> bye :)
<ogra> NCommander, dare you
<ogra> ciao bittin`
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-03
<pitti> hello
<heno> hey
 * slangasek waves
<fader_> Howdy
<ScottK> o/
<dendrobates> o/
 * lool   \o/
<pgraner-zzzz> o/
<sbeattie> hey
<cjwatson> hi
<slangasek> mdz, davidm_, Riddell, Hobbsee: ping
<robbiew> hi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:02. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> morning, folks
<slangasek> [LINK] Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-04-03
<MootBot> LINK received:  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-04-03
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions
<mdz> slangasek: here
<mdz> davidm and I ran over a bit in our last meeting but are here now
<slangasek> cjwatson: I see that NewReleaseCycleProcess is updated to talk about targeting the previous release notes; good
<slangasek> mdz, davidm_: hi
<davidm_> slangasek, hi
<cjwatson> slangasek: aye
<cjwatson> I did that during the last meeting ;)
<slangasek> cjwatson: and I know I saw bugs from 8.10 release notes being targeted - is that all done now?
<cjwatson> yep, that's all done
<slangasek> great
<slangasek> sbeattie: how are regression-release bugs looking?  I'm afraid I haven't had a chance to review them before the meeting
<sbeattie> slangasek: bah, I didn't get to the release ones, I'll raise them with the rest of the QA team today.
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
<slangasek> sbeattie, heno, fader: how goes it?
<fader_> Hardware testing is going well... we're not seeing any blockers in our daily testing: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<fader_> cr3 and I did a round of manual testing on some netbooks yesterday which did find some issues, mostly around sound
<fader_> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/netbooks/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/netbooks/
<fader_> We will be filing those bugs today
<heno> We're running an Audio testing day on Monday
<heno> please bring all your odd audio hardware to #ubuntu-testing on Monday :)
<heno> pulse sound in seems to be the main problem
<slangasek> I notice that the set of 'untested' machines is fairly static - are any of those being addressed?
<fader_> slangasek: The untested machines now are mainly those with identified hardware problems or that have been removed for other purposes
<mdz> slangasek: some of them are dupes, others are low priority
<slangasek> ok
<fader_> There's one that is not in that category that I am working on right now
<heno> pulse in e.g bug: bug 311497
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 311497 in pulseaudio "skype experiences lag with pulseaudio" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311497
<mdz> slangasek: (sparc are examples of the latter)
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> the sparcs at least have annotations about bugs affecting boot
<slangasek> are the bugs resulting from audio testing generally regressions from intrepid?
<slangasek> or previously-unidentified problems?
<davmor2> slangasek: I think they are a mixture of the 2
<heno> slangasek: no, our impression is that it's slowly getting better but could be better still
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> how has the flood of post-beta bugs been?  any classes of issues we need to highlight that haven't been so far?
<heno> [QA team done]
<heno> We had a spike of 5-600 bugs
<heno> a fair number of upgrade issues have been reported
<heno> as usual at beta
<heno> pedro and I will work with mvo to help triage them more quickly
<slangasek> ok, great
<heno> and we'll hoover mailing lists for people's upgrade stories
<slangasek> ok, thanks :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team
<pitti> this week we made quite some good progress on RC bug fixing and resolved the remaining "intrusive changes" points; unfortunately we also got a couple of new jaunty targetted bugs
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus has the current status
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> in summary, I'm quite content with the progress, except for bug 348316 which is a bitch
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348316 in linux "Printer (HWModel Name) May Not Be Connected" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348316
<pitti> so if anyone has an USB printer which stopped working in jaunty and has this bug, Till and I would appreciate your help
<pitti> facundobatista has it and volunteered to help
<slangasek> I have a USB printer and it /hadn't/ stopped working in jaunty
<mdz> I'm afraid to say my printer still works too
<pitti> other issue is that the messaging indicator still has some upgrade issues and crashes, which the DX team is working on
<pitti> mine works just fine as well
<pitti> slangasek, mdz: not that I'd complain :)
<mdz> pitti: I don't think I have the messaging indicator
<mdz> I have indicator-applet and indicator-messages installed, but nothing new/interesting in my panel.  is that normal?
<davidbarth> mdz: you need to run pidgin or evolution to see something
<tedg> mdz: It only appears if you're running Pidgin or Evolution.
<davidbarth> mdz: the indicator appears only when you have "indicating" applications running
<mdz> ok
<pitti> mdz: if you do intrepid->jaunty upgrade with update-manager, you should get a postinst question about adding it
<mvo> the indicator-applet is added automatically on first login
<mvo> no question for this
<robbiew> +1
<mvo> (we asked one for fusa, but that was different because we modified the users config, the indicator is just added)
<mdz> (and fusa was in 8.10)
<mvo> (yes)
<mdz> moving on?
<mdz> pitti: oh, what about intel X issues?
<robbiew> yes!
<mdz> slangasek: I emailed you about this prior to the meeting
<pitti> mdz: all done
<pitti> mdz: well, FSVO all
<pitti> mdz: the 8x5 breakage
<mdz> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/339
<mdz> 555
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339 in libnjb "libnjb package on Ubuntu should include hotplug config files" [Medium,Fix released]
 * slangasek nods to mdz
<mdz> sorry, bug 339555
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339555 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "compiz slowmotion after Jaunty upgrade" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339555
<pitti> 845 and 855 now work, 865 was worked around with disabling DRI
<mdz> pitti: that's good to hear that those are fixed; what was the bug number for that one?
<pitti> mdz: bug 304871
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 304871 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i845G] Fatal server error: Couldn't bind memory for BO front buffer (Jaunty)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/304871
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> pitti: any thoughts on 339555?
<pitti> no idea about that one I'm afraid, it wasn't on the release team radar yet
<mdz> bug 337608 is also relevant
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337608 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i945] X crashes in fbBlt() when using Sun Java Plugin 6 + firefox3.0 on Asus EEEPC 1000" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337608
<mdz> since it affects one of the target netbooks
<mdz> pitti: could you make sure that at least gets triaged?  it's not clear to me how serious it is
<pitti> I'll talk to Bryce about them, whether we can at least bandaid them
<mdz> ok, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile team
<lool> list of specs and bugs on our radar:
<lool> [link] <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap>
<MootBot> LINK received:  <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap>
<lool> current high-level status per topic:
<lool> - UNR notify-osd went in; good shape except for intel graphics regression on eeepcs (349314, 344443) and couple of pending-upload netbook-launcher issues (350989, 354003)
<lool> - MID image is as good as usual
<lool> - armel netbook images: need plenty of testing since the latest kernel changes (all of iop32x, versatile, ixp4xx have been changed for various bugs)
<lool> - armel's "iMX51 Babbage": everything required for installers merged in archive; very good progress on the kernel front; work started on building cdimage/debian-cd based images -- instead of custom script -- these dailies are getting urgent; needs more
<lool> testing
<lool> - NEON: landed
<lool> - VFP libs: 2/4 have patches attached; Emmet pursuing work but currently in Taipei for a sprint
<lool> - other milestoned bugs: working on the armel issues, pretty much all assigned
<lool> - Poulsbo: dropped; issue of intrepid drivers was understood, but it's too late for the jaunty ones now
<lool> - touchscreen spec / support: still lacking; notably impacts Samsung Q1U used in mobile team
<lool> that's for the status
<lool> I'd like to discuss another topic which was brought to my attention this morning, but please ask questions on the status first
<mdz> slangasek: how far are we from building imx51 using only the standard tools and repositories?
<lool> I guess that was for me
<cjwatson> mdz: that's the image work mentioned in lool's status update; it's waiting for my review essentially
<cjwatson> (for about the last hour, so I'm not slacking too badly ;-) )
<lool> Only one archive bit is missing, it's a binary blob which we would best generate from a tool instead
<lool> However the debian-cd work just started; I didn't merge the full imx51 logic still; I expect it will take me a couple of days to get it cleanly mergeable
<mdz> lool: from your comment it sounded like your part was done (everything merged in the archive)
<mdz> but I misunderstood
<slangasek> lool: btw, micro-evtd is seeded but I don't see an MIR for it anywhere so I haven't cleaned up the component-mismatch; do you know if there is an MIR somewhere, and if not, can someone take care of that please?
<lool> The images which we generate manually are however fully built from archive (apart that small blob) and install with archive stuff only -- unless new bugs are pending discovery
<lool> slangasek: There's a MIR for it, but it has a security bug
<lool> It does some nasty things in /tmp
<lool> And in general the programming style is really bad
<slangasek> ah, there is
<lool> I have documented this in Debian and suggested an approach for fixes, but I don't have the hardware, so it's hard to offer to fix them
<lool> mdz: So back to what's missing, we need a tool to generate an empty binary config for babbage, I have that in my curtains since weeks; it's a really minor thing; all the rest of what needs to be in archive is in archive
<slangasek> lool: are the VFP lib changes still on track, do you think?
<lool> Most of the missing work is debian-cd / cdimage work on babbage
<lool> slangasek: I do think they are unintrusive and trivial to test, get in, get out
<slangasek> I mean, do you think the work will be done in time
<lool> I think Emmet should be able to tackle the remaining packages before next week
<slangasek> those bugs have lingered for a while already
<slangasek> ok
<lool> I agree
<lool> Emmet has this at the top of his TODO
<slangasek> alright
<slangasek> cjwatson: you say the debian-cd/cdimage bits are waiting on your review only?
<lool> It wont break anything if we don't "fix" these bugs, it will just be slower; I did commit that we would do this though
<lool> Only some preliminary work is waiting for review; I didn't attack the actual imx51 changes, only prepared to be able to do them
<cjwatson> ah, I hadn't looked enough to be able to say yet
<slangasek> ok
<lool> (generating vfat images was decided at a level where we don't decide per arch)
<cjwatson> based on Oliver's earlier work, though, I think it is tractable for Jaunty
<slangasek> cjwatson: do you have an ETA for when that might be done, so we could start getting daily builds?
<cjwatson> slangasek: I'll review and hopefully merge lool's changes this afternoon; ETA for the rest of it is with lool, though
<mdz> having to manually roll builds for imx51 would be rough going into the final stretch
<slangasek> quite
<slangasek> cjwatson: sounds good then
<lool> Any other question?  I'd like to bring up another topic
<lool> ARM indicated that FSL 2D/3D drivers were pending or already around; they wish we'd have an UNR image for armel so that there's a runnable image on systems where they add the drivers.  My personal opinion is that we wouldn't be able to QA such an image ATM and that I doubt the 2D/3D drivers would make it before release (but they might be SRU-ed), so I wouldn't want to release with an unusable or untested UNR armel image.  ARM also asked ...
<lool> ... whether it was  possible to add an UNR image after release; I think we would do best by avoiding that as well.
<slangasek> I think we're rather far along to be trying to expand the scope of the ARM release
<slangasek> (i.e., if you're asking me, then "no")
<lool> I am asking, and I did want to officially raise it before I came back with a no
<lool> I do believe it's way too risky, but the practical testing constraints led me to think it wasn't possible anyway
<slangasek> you might have been asking mdz rather than me :-)
<davidm_> lool, from Freescale they said they don't have the drivers, so it's no from me
<lool> Eh mdz is here, we had this meeting planned today, and I received that question this morning
<mdz> (defer to davidm)
<lool> Great, topic closed; done for mobile team
<slangasek> moving on!
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team
<pgraner> Hello.... I'll do the cut n paste of the bugs from slangasek email....
<pgraner> * Kernel
<pgraner>     * Bug:334994: Degraded RAID boot fails
<pgraner>      - Fixed will get uploaded today
<pgraner>     * Bug:348275: iwlagn: NM applet doesn't connect to WPA2
<pgraner>      - Closed - Invalid
<pgraner>     * Bug:292450: Broadcom kernel panics (reopened)
<pgraner>      - Not a Jaunty issue we updated Jaunty to the latest Broadcom driver, the only affects Intrepid
<pgraner>     * Bug:336055: wrong ESSIDs shown after resume
<pgraner>      - Patch was committed, jerone reopened and we can't reproduce. pitti mentioned there might pm-utils work around.
<pgraner>     * Bug:348316: CUPS USB printing broken, kernel regression?
<pgraner>      - Not confirmed to be a kernel regression yet, testers are not reporting back.
<pgraner>     * Bug:348382: linux-image-*-imx51 missing dependency on flash-kernel
<pgraner>      - Fix Commited - Will be uploaded today
<pgraner>     * Bug:345714: X crash in ioctl on iGM45
<pgraner>      - robbiew debugging indicates this is not kernel but libdrm
<pgraner>     * Bug:290153: can't boot Intel D945Gnt
<pgraner>      - legit and we are workig on it
<mdz> pgraner: confirm that 336055 is not a regression from 8.10?
<lool> pgraner: Bug:348382: I've unmilestoned this one and dropped it to Low; it's just a nice to have to not take any risk and be consistent
<pitti> it isn't from my POV
<lool> (But it's fix committed anyway)
<mdz> pgraner/heno: we need the list of netbook bugs as well
<pitti> slangasek: said he'd work on the pm-utils workaround for 336055
<mdz> the ones I have to hand are bug 348012, bug 340014, bug 319825
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348012 in linux "Acer Aspire One doesn't wake up when lid opens" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348012
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 340014 in linux "Samsung NC10 fails suspend/Resume tests" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340014
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 319825 in linux "acer_wmi in Jaunty on Aspire One exposes non-functional (always disabled) rfkill device" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319825
<pgraner> mdz: its not a known regression
<mdz> looks like the first two are still open
<lool> pgraner: Thanks for the load of fixes in yesterday's kernel upload BTW
<slangasek> pgraner: I don't understand how bug #348275 has been marked "invalid", when the bug reporters have stated in the bug that they're having this problem with the current kernel.
<mdz> and I'm sure there are more; fader said there was a microphone issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348275 in linux "[iwlagn] networkmanager applet cannot connect to WPA2 home network (intel 4965)" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348275
<heno> mdz: fader is heading in to the Lex office to file with ubuntu-bug from the machines today
<pgraner> mdz: the first two listed?
<mdz> pgraner: 348012, 340014
<mdz> pgraner: the first two of my (incomplete) list of netbook bugs
<fader_> mdz: 348012 is still valid, but 319825 appears to be fixed... I wasn't able to reproduce it
<pgraner> fader_: we think we found the sound issue we need you here to validate
<mdz> fader_: how about 340014?  that's the more serious of the two
<slangasek> pgraner: 336055 - as pitti says, if this isn't tractable from your side, we can kludge around it in pm-utils
<fader_> 340014 is an issue as we don't have a power cord for that machine and I haven't been able to find one anywhere that fits it :(
<fader_> (manjo has the cord but not with him; worst case he should be able to ship it once he is back home tomorrow)
<slangasek> pgraner: 292450> likewise, there are users reporting this is still a problem in jaunty, so I don't see the basis for closing the bug?
<slangasek> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules/+bug/292450/comments/77)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292450 in linux-restricted-modules "Broadcom STA/wl driver causes random kernel panics" [High,Confirmed]
<mdz> pgraner: if 340014 doesn't get fixed, we're going to need to drop that model from the list, as we can't say it's compatible
<pgraner> slangasek: 292450 there is nothing we can do except update to the latest binary driver which we did.
<mdz> fader_: as indicated in the bug, 348012 needs someone to test whether this is the same with the stock OS.  if so, it's invalid and we can disregard it.
<slangasek> pgraner: I understand that; but that doesn't mean the bug should be marked fixed if it isn't
<pgraner> OK slow down guys I can't grock all this at once one issue at a time pls
 * slangasek backs off :)
<slangasek> (the kernel is popular!)
<mdz> pgraner: you drive, which issue do you want to cover first?
<pgraner> mdz: ack, lets go back to the ones that were orig on slangasek's list
<mdz> start with 348275 then
<mdz> <slangasek> pgraner: I don't understand how bug #348275 has been marked "invalid", when the bug reporters have stated in the bug that they're having this problem with the current kernel.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348275 in linux "[iwlagn] networkmanager applet cannot connect to WPA2 home network (intel 4965)" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348275
<davmor2> mdz: I got an AAO if you want I can try a standard install on it
<mdz> davmor2: (hold on, we'll get there)
<mdz> for what it's worth, I have 4965 in this laptop, and I just switched on wifi to test.  I can connect to my home WPA2 network fine with 2.6.28-11.38-generic
<pgraner> slangasek: LP 3482775, rtg sees no reason why this doesn't work
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 3482775 could not be found
<pgraner> slangasek: its working with everything we have
<mdz> actually, I seem to be able to associate and get an IP, but I can't ping the router. that's odd.
<pgraner> mdz: both rtg and I are using the same card here and its working just fine
<mdz> pgraner: it seems to be working OK now
<mdz> I can ping it from another machine on the wifi net
<mdz> it was human error
<ogasawara> slangasek: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/348275/comments/27 seems to indicate it's fixed for original bug reporter as well
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348275 in linux "[iwlagn] networkmanager applet cannot connect to WPA2 home network (intel 4965)" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<mdz> so I can't reproduce 348275 either
<slangasek> ok
<pgraner> slangasek: then we can make it fixed released according to ogasawara
<mdz> next? 292450
<mdz> <slangasek> pgraner: 292450> likewise, there are users reporting this is still a problem in jaunty, so I don't see the basis for closing the bug?
<mdz> <pgraner> slangasek: 292450 there is nothing we can do except update to the latest binary driver which we did.
<pgraner> slangasek: bug 336055 - we don't think its a kernel issues
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 336055 in linux "Wifi driver fixes for age scan" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336055
<mdz> either there is a bug or there isn't
<slangasek> ogasawara: hmm, the preceding comment says "I can connect to my WPA2 network but after computer suspend I can't" (original submitter)
<slangasek> I guess that's out of scope for the original report?
<ogasawara> slangasek: yes, I'd likely open a new report for that issue after suspend
<pgraner> mdz: they reported prior to the latest Broadcom update
<slangasek> ogasawara: could you ask the submitter to do that, just so we're following through?
<ogasawara> slangasek: sure thing
<mdz> ogasawara: (FWIW I suspend every night and it's still working)
<mdz> pgraner: do the release notes for the broadcom update say that they fixed this issue?
<slangasek> pgraner: lrm hasn't updated since the 23rd, Peter Whittaker reopened the bug on the 27th
<slangasek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules/+bug/292450/comments/77
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292450 in linux-restricted-modules "Broadcom STA/wl driver causes random kernel panics" [High,Confirmed]
<pgraner> mdz: they do not produce release notes
<slangasek> (in which he also shows his version number is the one from the latest lrm changelog)
<pgraner> mdz: its a black box, we really need to drop this driver
<mdz> pgraner: that's a separate discussion, we're stuck with it for 9.04
<pgraner> mdz: I know I know....
<pgraner> I think that takes care of the first list, on to the netbook list
<mdz> pgraner: if the upstream release didn't say they fixed this bug, what possible basis is there for this:
<mdz> linux-restricted-modules (2.6.28-4.3) jaunty; urgency=low
<mdz>   [Tim Gardner]
<mdz>   * Update Broadcom wl to 5.10.27.11 from 5.10.27.6
<mdz>     - LP: #292450
<pgraner> mdz: thats the shim layer not the blob, rtg derived this from source
<pgraner> s/source/shim source/
<pgraner> mdz: rtg tells me the problem in question is in the blob not the shim layer
<mdz> I don't see any indication in the bug that the new version fixed the problem for anybody
<pgraner> mdz: again we don't know all we can do when its in the blob is update to the latest and hope for the best
<slangasek> well, that would imply untargeting the bug from the release (--> wontfix), not closing the bug
<mdz> pgraner: I understand.  if all we're doing is hoping for the best, though, don't close the bug
<pgraner> mdz: got it
<mdz> next?  336055
<mdz> ?
<rtg> slangasek: I did upload an update to wl this morning, here is the commit log: "The 5.10.79.10 update appears to have an update http://www.broadcom.com/docs/linux_sta/wl_iw_v2.patch
<rtg>     that is already partially applied. Found the part that wasn't and applied by hand. It
<rtg>     looks like it could fix a buffer overrun."
<pgraner> mdz: waiting on LP
<slangasek> rtg: ok, great - to be uploaded soon?
<slangasek> pgraner: that's the "wrong ESSIDs after resume" bug
<rtg> slangasek: already uploaded
<mdz> excellent
<slangasek> rtg: ah, great!
<mdz> 348316 pitti covered already
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up on state of bug #292450 to make sure it gets retested
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292450 in linux-restricted-modules "Broadcom STA/wl driver causes random kernel panics" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292450
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up on state of bug #292450 to make sure it gets retested
<pgraner> mdz: on that one, no one else has me too'd it, we put a fix in that has worked for other includeing upstream, I'm suspect the jernone's reopening might be bogus
<mdz> 345714
<mdz> looks like 345714 needs to go to the desktop team then? pitti?
<pitti> looks like
<pgraner> mdz: ack
<mdz> it's unassigned but pitti will take care of that I'm sure
<pitti> assigned to desktop-team for now, will further process it from there
<mdz> pgraner: how about the netbooks?  sounds like we need to get hardware into the right hands for 340014 urgently
<pgraner> mdz: it will, fader_ was testing yesterday, we have everyone here to work on it
<slangasek> pgraner: I can definitely (and trivially) reproduce bug #336055 with 2.6.28-11.38.  It hasn't been 'metoo'ed because some of us have been resigned to this misbehavior for more than one cycle now :/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 336055 in linux "Wifi driver fixes for age scan" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336055
<fader_> 340014 is the one we can't currently test due to lack of a power cable for it
<mdz> pgraner: he said he can't test due to a missing cable
<slangasek> I'll follow up to that bug though
<fader_> I've looked all over... none of the standard 'universal' cables fit it (thanks, Radio Shack)
<pgraner> mdz: I just found out the cable didn't come with it
<fader_> pgraner: My understanding is that manjo has the cable but brought the wrong one with him to Lexington
<pgraner> mdz: In that case we might be able to get it before freeze
<mdz> slangasek: we should take the cabling issue offline, can you record an action?
<pgraner> fader_: yea, I just found that out
<slangasek> mdz: whose action is it?
<pgraner> mdz: we think we've squashed the sound issues, we will test today, fix was uploaded in todays kernel
<mdz> slangasek: pgraner I guess
<pgraner> slangasek: mine
<mdz> there are an unknown (to me) number of other netbook bugs which haven't been filed yet
<slangasek> [ACTION] pgraner to follow up on missing power cable for bug #340014
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 340014 in linux "Samsung NC10 fails suspend/Resume tests" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340014
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to follow up on missing power cable for bug #340014
<mdz> fader_: can you at least tell us how many bugs there are pending to be filed?
<fader_> mdz: 5, but they all may be one bug
<fader_> (as they all deal with no sound being recorded)
<mdz> slangasek: action for fader to get the sound input bug filed
<mdz> bug(s) I guess
<slangasek> [ACTION] fader to file bugs about sound input on netbooks
<MootBot> ACTION received:  fader to file bugs about sound input on netbooks
<fader_> mdz: I'll be heading in to the Lex office right after this meeting to file those
<mdz> fader_: ok
<slangasek> great
<slangasek> ok; have we wended our way to the end of the kernel list?
<mdz> that's it from me I think
<pgraner> slangasek: nothing more from me
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team
<slangasek> cjwatson, robbiew: hi
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Jaunty is up to date
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Jaunty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Jaunty
<cjwatson> we have a moderate number of bugs, but there is reasonable progress on almost all of them
<cjwatson> there are a couple of other specific concerns I'd like to raise
<cjwatson> mvo is having trouble with python2.6 upgrade fixes (perhaps he can speak for himself on this)
<cjwatson> and bug 353090 has come up for no very obvious reason - I'd appreciate help from a GTK expert
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/353090/+text)
<mdz> (waiting for the bug page to load...)
<cjwatson> '(jaunty) Text hidden on "Who are you?" step'
<cjwatson> I've reproduced it, it's just a mystery. The radio button labels are blank until you select one of them
<robbiew> mvo has been working on bug 354228
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 354228 in python-central "package python2.6-minimal 2.6.1-1ubuntu8 failed to install/upgrade: " [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/354228
 * slangasek nods
<sbeattie> Do we have a plan for making python upgrades less brittle? I've been hit by python breakage causing the upgrade to fail twice now.
<cjwatson> I think we're in OK shape in general, but with evand on holiday all this week I've had to spend most of the week dealing with installer work, so am not as up to speed elsewhere as I would like
<slangasek> cjwatson: do we need to solicit input from the desktop team on that bug?
<slangasek> sbeattie: a plan for making intrepid->jaunty work, or a blue-sky plan to make python upgrades less brittle overall?
<cjwatson> yes, I'd appreciate it
<slangasek> pitti: can you take bug #353090 back to the desktop team and get some eyeballs on it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 353090 in guadalinex "(jaunty) Text hidden on "Who are you?" step" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/353090
<mdz> pitti: maybe the DX guys could have a look
<pitti> I'll ask robert
<sbeattie> slangasek: I'll take what I can get.
<cjwatson> I asked a question in our releasestatus page about bug 131227
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 131227 in notification-daemon "notification-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in strcmp()" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131227
<slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to ask robert to look at bug #353090 (gtk strangeness in ubiquity)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 353090 in guadalinex "(jaunty) Text hidden on "Who are you?" step" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/353090
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to ask robert to look at bug #353090 (gtk strangeness in ubiquity)
<cjwatson> specifically "is this still RC given notify-osd?"
<mdz> I'm having some trouble unwinding the maze of python bugs
<mdz> cjwatson: can you provide a list of python2.6 upgrade bugs which need help?
<cjwatson> mdz: bug 354228 is the current hub, I believe
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 354228 in python-central "package python2.6-minimal 2.6.1-1ubuntu8 failed to install/upgrade: " [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/354228
<slangasek> sbeattie: well, fixing 354228 is going to make it "less brittle"; we'll have a better idea once that's fixed whether there are other bugs needing attention
<mdz> cjwatson: ah, I missed the open jaunty task on python2.6
<cjwatson> there's also a question about 3.0 support there
<mdz> it's New/Undecided though
<cjwatson> mvo created that task so I assume that's just lack of having done the paperwork
<slangasek> cjwatson: 131227> notification-daemon is still in main, I guess some people are going to prefer that to notify-osd; seems like an appropriate bug to fix in the package (incl. in SRU), but not a release blocker per se?
<mdz> there's a python2.6 debdiff attached which claims to fix 343228
<cjwatson> slangasek: ok, that matches my general opinion
<cjwatson> mdz: right, I'm raising it just because it's been thorny so far, wasn't on the agenda, and needs particular QA attention
<cjwatson> mdz: to my knowledge mvo is on top of it so far, although he's been making sounds of unhappiness at the design
<mdz> cjwatson: ok, just trying to understand how we can help him
<cjwatson> it doesn't seem as if he's paying attention to IRC just now, and I haven't spoken to him since this morning, so I think we'll have to take that out of band
<mdz> ok
<slangasek> all set?
<cjwatson> given overtimeness, yes
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team
<slangasek> dendrobates: hey-o
<dendrobates> a couple things
<dendrobates> soren will push a fix for bug 347622 and bug 347629 today.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 347622 in eucalyptus "in SYSTEM mode, VM ips are not automatically discovered by CC or NC on switched networks" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/347622
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 347629 in eucalyptus "in SYSTEM mode, CLC tries to discover elastic IPs from CC even though elastic IP support is not enabled in SYSTEM mode" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/347629
<dendrobates> Dustin uploaded a fix for bug 341159.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 341159 in kvm "package kvm-source 1:84+dfsg-0ubuntu7 failed to install/upgrade: " [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/341159
<dendrobates> I'm not sure about bug 350089 it was not on my radar. Dustin seems to have looked at it, but not updated it yet.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 350089 in ecryptfs-utils "package ecryptfs-utils 73-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 1" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/350089
<dendrobates> bug 274849 was fixed a long time ago and not updated correctly.  Now marked as fix released.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274849 in linux "2.6.27 (xen paravirt ops) crashes on ec2." [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274849
<dendrobates> There are 2 virt related bugs marked as regression-potential
<dendrobates> Soren has not gotten to them, I will investigate and reassign as necessary.
<dendrobates> bug 337763
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337763 in virt-manager "[jaunty] regression: virt-manager reboot action is non-functional" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337763
<dendrobates> bug 342359
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 342359 in vm-builder "[jaunty] ubuntu-vm-builder crashed with ioctl in create()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/342359
<dendrobates> that is all from me
<slangasek> dendrobates: hmm, it sounds like you guys are tracking a number of bugs as 'critical' which have not been targeted to the release (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RCBugTargetting).  Can you try to make sure bugs get targeted to jaunty, so the rest of us know what's going on in that regard?
<dendrobates> slangasek: ack
<slangasek> thanks
<mdz> dendrobates: please also make sure to get bugs into the Triaged state as quickly as possible
<dendrobates> mdz: yes, we have one member not doing it correctly.  I will fix that.
<mdz> (I updated 341159 in that regard)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> ScottK: hi
<ScottK> Hi
<ScottK> Python 2.6 transition is still #1 on the list.
<ScottK> We're down to ~ half a dozen packages, but they are all FTBFS for one reason or another and will be hard.
<ScottK> Some others are pending archive action for syncs.
<mdz> ScottK: can you dump the bug numbers here so folks can help out if they're available?
<ScottK> I don't have them handy.  I'll gather them and send mail.
<mdz> ok
<ScottK> The other transition is clamav.
<slangasek> [ACTION] ScottK to mail list of outstanding python2.6 transition bugs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK to mail list of outstanding python2.6 transition bugs
<ScottK> We jumped off the cliff and upgraded to clamav 0.95 yesterday.
<ScottK> That's got half a dozen rdpends.  We have patches for all but one and have started uploading.
<ScottK> I think that'll land OK.
 * slangasek nods
<ScottK> Even in the unlikely event one has to go to an SRU, I think the benifits of moving forward far outweigh thtat.
<ScottK> Some of us have been going through uninstallables and working on those.
<slangasek> is there much QA activity this cycle around universe uninstall... yah :)
<ScottK> This has resulted in a growing pile of removal bugs.
<ScottK> Most of the focus has been on FTBFS and installable.
<slangasek> are ubuntu-archive keeping up with them, or are they leaving them for me to deal with on Monday? ;)
<ScottK> Python 2.6 sucked up a HUGE amount of time.
<ScottK> slangasek: Most of them got filed very recently so AFAIK you'll get them monday.
<slangasek> drat
<slangasek> ScottK: ok, thanks
<ScottK> For Python 2.6 we're in decent shape for builds/installs.  I have a lot of fear around working
<ScottK> We'll just have to watch for bugs an react.
<ScottK> We don't have a systematic way to really know.
 * slangasek nods
<ScottK> That's all I have.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> I don't have anything else to break out today, so rather than flipping index cards - AOB?
<slangasek> ISO sizes are doing well, fwiw; still working on refining tools to help us make sure they stay that way, but we found some space by splitting the GNOME user guide by language
<mdz> make sure you know about the release party in your area!
<slangasek> indeed :)
<slangasek> oh, does anyone like charset manipulation in perl or python who would like to reimplement a ruby script for me?
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseParties
<cjwatson> like? not especially. capable of? probably
<slangasek> ttf-cjk-compact is currently responsible for ~40% of the component-mismatches
<slangasek> for a ruby script used once at build time to get the list of glyphs
<slangasek> anyway, if cjwatson is my volunteer, we can take that up later :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:46.
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<pitti> slangasek: oh, is anyone looking at sorting out c-m? I'm afraid I can't, with me being away next week
<cjwatson> slangasek: po2ul.rb?
<slangasek> cjwatson: yes
<heno> thanks
<slangasek> pitti: I've been whittling it down over the past few weeks
<pitti> okay, thanks all
<lool> thanks
 * pitti goes to pack stuff now
<cjwatson> slangasek: doesn't look too hard
<slangasek> yeah, it's "suck in the strings, get them in the right charset, sort -u"
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-04
<ubuntar> ÐÑÐ¸Ð²ÐµÑ,Ð½ÑÐ¶Ð½Ð° Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾ÑÑ Ñ PGP
<Extend> what is utc time now
<Ampelbein> Extend: date -u
<Extend> thx
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-05
<openlive> Ð½Ðµ Ð¼Ð¾Ð³Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¿Ð°ÑÑÑ Ð² #ubuntu-ru
<openlive> Ð¿Ð¾Ð´ÑÐºÐ°Ð¶Ð¸ÑÐµ ÑÑÐ¾ ÑÐ´ÐµÐ»Ð°ÑÑ?
<nigelb> Ð¢Ð¸Ð¿ /join #ubuntu-ru
<openlive> Ð´Ð° Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð¾ Ð² ÑÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÑÐ¾ Ð½Ðµ Ð¼Ð¾Ð³Ñ Ð¾ÑÐ¿ÑÐ°Ð²Ð»ÑÑÑ ÑÐ¾Ð¾Ð±ÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÑÑÐ´Ð°
<openlive> ÑÐ¸ÑÐ°ÑÑ Ð¼Ð¾Ð³Ñ
<openlive> Ð²Ð¾Ð¿ÑÐ¾Ñ Ð¿ÑÐ¾ Ð´ÑÐ°Ð¹Ð²ÐµÑÑ via (Ð²Ð¸Ð´ÐµÐ¾ ) - ÐºÑÐ¾ Ð½Ð¸Ð±ÑÐ´Ñ ÑÐ¼Ð¾Ð³ Ð¸Ñ Ð½Ð°ÑÑÑÐ¾Ð¸ÑÑ? Ð¿Ð¾ÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑÐ¾ Ñ Ð±ÑÑÑÑ Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð³Ð¾ Ð¾ÑÐµÐ½Ñ...
<openlive> ÑÐ¾ÑÐ½Ð¾ via P4m800
<persia> !ru
<ubottu> ÐÐ¾Ð¶Ð°Ð»ÑÐ¹ÑÑÐ° Ð¿Ð¾ÑÐµÑÐ¸ÑÐµ #ubuntu-ru Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾ÑÐ¸ Ð½Ð° ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ  / Pozhalujsta posetite #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-06
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:02. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> Hello NCommander
<dyfet> hello
 * ericm waves to all
 * NCommander apologies for being tardy, laptop decided to fsck itself
 * JamieBennett is here
 * GrueMaster is present and/or accounted for.
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100406
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100406
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] cooloney to get karmic-proposed imx51 kernel with NEON fix in
<MootBot> New Topic:  cooloney to get karmic-proposed imx51 kernel with NEON fix in
<NCommander> No cooloney I guess
<JamieBennett> lets move on then
<plars> well
<anmar> NCommander: does that include the backport FEC ethernet driver?
<plars> I know a bit about what was going on there
<NCommander> anmar: not sure
<NCommander> plars: if you want to fill us in
<plars> it's still in progress... there's a kernel in proposed, with the new FEC driver
<plars> however, there was a regression in this updated driver, that can have a performance impact under load
<cooloney> i am here
<plars> it does, however, fix the initial problem
<cooloney> sorry
<NCommander> cooloney: np
<plars> no worries, just filling them in on the imx51 karmic kernel that you are working on
<cooloney> plars: thanks a lot
<plars> you have anything to add? did that sound reasonable as a summary?
<cooloney> the kernel in proposed for karmic is ok for neon fix
<cooloney> and smb pinged the pitti to accept it.
<cooloney> but for fec driver performance impact
<cooloney> i am still working on that
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to extend invite to ericm and amitk to report on kernel status
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to extend invite to ericm and amitk to report on kernel status
<plars> hmm, I marked it verification-failed because of the regression.  I would not think we would want to accept it as is
<ericm> ok, mlv-dove topics today
<NCommander> I forgot to ping amitk, but ericm is here
<NCommander> so c/o
<NCommander> [topic] plars to follow up with crimsun on the sound bug and report back
<MootBot> New Topic:  plars to follow up with crimsun on the sound bug and report back
<ericm> 1. Karmic X0 support, which I'd guess should be necessary for us to get it in right?
<cooloney> plars: right, i also found the same impact on lucid
<plars> done, but still in progress
<JamieBennett> NCommander: slow down
<NCommander> ericm: we'll go over the kernel status in the standing item later
<ericm> NCommander, ok
<NCommander> plars: why is the sound bug still in progress?
<plars> so sound is still broken,  but still being worked on
<plars> hmm... because it hasn't been fixed yet? :)
<NCommander> plars: oh, you were saying done to following up :-)
<plars> NCommander: right
<GrueMaster> crimsun and I have been working on this all last week.  We now think it is related to arm specific code in pulseaudio.
<GrueMaster> crimsun is investigating further.
<plars> so removing .pulse seems to workaround a lot of the issues, but not all
<NCommander> GrueMaster: ARM specific code in pulse? Last time I looked there wasn't a lot, and that could easily be checked by forcing a fallback to the C code
<GrueMaster> Did that yesterday.
<GrueMaster> That's how we know it is arm specific code.
<NCommander> GrueMaster: ugh *grumble*
<NCommander> GrueMaster: keep us informed, we want a working pulse
<GrueMaster> yep
<NCommander> [action] GrueMaster and plars to continue to keep working with crimsun on ARM PulseAudio
<MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster and plars to continue to keep working with crimsun on ARM PulseAudio
<NCommander> [topic] asac to upload libplist with -marm
<MootBot> New Topic:  asac to upload libplist with -marm
<JamieBennett> asac doesn't seem to be around, does anyone know if this was done?
 * NCommander is looked at LP ATM
<NCommander> No, it wasn't
<JamieBennett> c/o
<NCommander> I don't see an outstanding bug for this either
<NCommander> [actoin] asac to upload libplist with -marm
<NCommander> [action] asac to upload libplist with -marm
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asac to upload libplist with -marm
<NCommander> [topic] asac and dmart to get firefox rendering issue upstreamed
<MootBot> New Topic:  asac and dmart to get firefox rendering issue upstreamed
<NCommander> hrm
<NCommander> no dmart
<NCommander> c/o
<NCommander> [action] asac and dmart to get firefox rendering issue upstreamed
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asac and dmart to get firefox rendering issue upstreamed
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
<NCommander> so beta 2 is upon us
<JamieBennett> ouch, beta-2 work items need some love
<NCommander> JamieBennett: indeed
<NCommander> webservice-for-email is the one thats really hurtting
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<ericm> cooloney, you first
<cooloney> ok
<cooloney> actually, nothing important from my side these days
<cooloney> i just noticed fsl is pushing their code to their public git tree
<GrueMaster> what about hibernation?
<plars> not supported on imx51
<cooloney> oh, fsl-imx51 does not support hibernation
<GrueMaster> Or suspend/resume?
<cooloney> i think you guys reported suspend/resume regression after new fec driver applied
<plars> yes
<cooloney> but i am still working on the performance impact
<cooloney> that's all from my side
<ericm> ok, for dove
<ericm> I've merged the latest LSP 5.1.0 from Marvell
<ericm> yet it seemed to introduce a suspend/resume regression
<ericm> I was verifying this with Marvell this afternoon and basically concluded this to be HW issue
<plars> ericm: so they no longer think it's uboot related?
<ericm> I've borrowed a good board from them, everything works fine here
<NCommander> ericm: isn't the A0 out now?
<ericm> plars, I'm now downgraded to 4.4.0, but it seemed not uboot related
<plars> ok :(
<ericm> NCommander, not sure that A0 stepping
<ericm> but, hibernation still failed
<plars> ericm: what is the rev of the board you borrowed?
<ericm> plars, it's no newer than ours
<GrueMaster> then why does it work when ours don't?
<ericm> plars, so I doubt there are some HW differences, e.g. ECOs we'd like to confirm with Marvell Israle site, yet they seem to be all on holidays this week
<ericm> GrueMaster, I have no idea of the possible HW difference
<NCommander> ericm: ask what version of the BootROM they're using
<NCommander> ericm: that's been a source of odd behavior across otherwise identical boards
<ericm> NCommander, ok - I'll follow up
<ericm> NCommander, give me an AR to track the HW difference of the suspend/resume regression
<NCommander> [action] ericm to track HW/SW differences across Dove revisions for suspend/resume regressions
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ericm to track HW/SW differences across Dove revisions for suspend/resume regressions
<NCommander> done
<ericm> Bug #541399, NCommander, it seems to be an issue of mkimage command line
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 541399 in linux-mvl-dove "netboot image fails to boot." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/541399
<NCommander> ericm: saw that one, on my TODO
<ericm> incorrect setting of Load Address and Entry point, should be easy to fix
<NCommander> ericm: thanks for looking into it, I think that bug dates to initial dove bringup since that was the first thing we implemented and I guess at some point it stopped getting regularly tested
<GrueMaster> make sure that gets fixed immediately as we are now in Beta 2 and images are present for testing.
<NCommander> GrueMaster: I suspect the fix will land after B2; I'll talk to cjwatson if he's willing to upload d-i
<ericm> Bug #530432, it's actually a kernel bug yet the proposed patch in upstream seems not acceptable at the moment
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 530432 in linux-mvl-dove "suspend with sd card inserted fails to suspend, hangs, and loses USB" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530432
<GrueMaster> Yes, that one spans architectures iirc.
<ericm> I'd recommend we implement a hook to umount the card before suspending
<ericm> at the moment, until there is a clean patch merged
<ericm> Bug #457536, it seems to be fixed in latest ubiquity
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457536 in ubuntu-meta "Dove install will fail without network access" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457536
<NCommander> [action] ericm to continue working on SD card suspend issue
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ericm to continue working on SD card suspend issue
<GrueMaster> yes, that was fixed.  Tested yesterday.
<ericm> maybe we can close it
<plars> um
<ericm> there some other bugs maybe we can close, e.g. Bug #451553
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451553 in linux-mvl-dove "Lots of errors during install on dove" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451553
<plars> iirc the real fix for that was never implemented
<plars> see bug comments
<plars> speaking of 457536 that is
<ericm> plars, it seems to be uboot-mkimage is absent, and need to get from network
<NCommander> ericm: plars: we had that fixed
<GrueMaster> Some of these bugs are in karmic and fixed in recent lucid images.
<GrueMaster> Meaning they will still exist in karmic.
<ericm> plars, cjwatson has made ubiquity depend on that so should be there in the ISO by default, right?
<plars> iirc, it was worked around, but slangasek mentioned in the bug that there was a better way that it should be fixed
 * NCommander thought we fixed it by putting uboot-mkimage in the ship seed
<ericm> looks someone needs to follow this up
<ericm> get an AR for someone, anyone?
<plars> see the last couple of comments
<ericm> NCommander, we also need to take a look into karmic
<plars> the recommendation was to fix it in the recommends on the kernel image package
<NCommander> [action] ericm, plars, NCommander to investigate uboot-mkimage breakage and offline dove installation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ericm, plars, NCommander to investigate uboot-mkimage breakage and offline dove installation
<ericm> NCommander, ok thanks
<NCommander> plars: its already a recommends of initramfs-tools/flash-kernel I think
<ericm> let's move on, plars, GrueMaster, there might be other bugs we can close, e.g. Bug #451553
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451553 in linux-mvl-dove "Lots of errors during install on dove" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451553
<plars> hmm, is that the one with the double bit errors?
<plars> I still get screenfuls of those
<ericm> plars, it seems to be the one with unalignment faults
<ericm> plars, double bit errors are actually warning, and we don't care about NAND, do we?
<NCommander> ericm: not this cycle, but I'm hoping to have something w.r.t. to NAND based installing for 10.10
<GrueMaster> Interestingly I do not see this on my dove.
 * NCommander hasn't seen it on his X0 either
<NCommander> plars: it might be that you need to reinitialize your NAND flash
<plars> GrueMaster: you don't see the double bit errors?
<GrueMaster> no
<ericm> GrueMaster, this happens randomly as it's totally depending on the content of the NAND already there
<NCommander> GrueMaster: they usually should up in the dmesg
<plars> interesting
<NCommander> [action] NCommander and plars to work together to reinitialize plars's NAND flash on his X0
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander and plars to work together to reinitialize plars's NAND flash on his X0
<NCommander> :-)
<ericm> GrueMaster, NCommander, a clean NAND is supposed not to issue any such warnings
<plars> sounds good
<ericm> NCommander, ok
 * plars has a dirty nand :(
<NCommander> plars: I think we can knock that one down to wishlist at the very least, NAND is a very much "we don't care" thing rightnow
<ericm> move on, the last item, I'm thinking of getting X0 support back into Karmic
<NCommander> or low
<plars> will do
<NCommander> ericm: that just needs a kernel SRU (and a custom image respin)
<ericm> as Karmic is still in it's supporting phase, yet the change might be BIG, so we do need to do a careful regression
<ericm> test
<NCommander> ericm: the userland support side is fine; I ran karmic on the X0 witout issue once I forced a new kernel on it
<ericm> NCommander, cool - as long as plars, GrueMaster have some time to do a QA, I'm fine to push it right away
<GrueMaster> Maybe end of week/early next week.  This is release week.
<ericm> NCommander, give me an AR, and I'm done with the status update
<NCommander> ericm: I think we can accept it into proposed, and if need be, I can spin a custom image with it and stuff it on p.c.c
<NCommander> [action] ericm to drop X0 enablement into karmic-proposed
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ericm to drop X0 enablement into karmic-proposed
<ericm> ok
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<GrueMaster> erm, did you skip us?
<JamieBennett> webservice-office-zoho is waiting on new icons, other than that nothing much to report
<dyfet> There will also be a new blueprint for this for lucid+1
<dyfet> And we may re-introduce canola2 then if it looks supportable
<dyfet> but otherwise, yes, not much to report
<NCommander> GrueMaster: whoops, sorry, Still not caffinated (ENOCOFFEE)
<NCommander> JamieBennett: dyfet anything else?
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> whoops
<JamieBennett> no move on
<GrueMaster> Between 3/23 and 4/3, there were no new images to test due to gtk library respin.
<GrueMaster> My focus shifted to app testing and debugging pulse audio issues.
<GrueMaster> Along with kernel testing.
<plars> oh, I thought they weren't done
<plars> iso tracker is updated with milestone images
<plars> so we have begun testing on that
<plars> TI kernel has improved greatly
<plars> the omap image boots to netbook desktop, and all, but no usb at the moment
 * GrueMaster has no Ti system to test with (yet).
<plars> working on getting that sorted out, may be able to hand build an image today that should work when my kernel compile completes
<plars> and the sound problems were discussed earlier
<NCommander> plars: GrueMaster anything else?
<GrueMaster> I sent a list of bugs to ogra and asac that need some attention.
<plars> GrueMaster: was that the one you cc'd me on?
<GrueMaster> yes
<plars> GrueMaster: right, planning to go through the list and make sure those are appropriately set wrt importance, milestone, etc.  If you know of any that need immediate fixing though, let me konw
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<dyfet> I had worked on some strange ftbfs packages, including basilisk and condor, but they were not arm specific issues
<GrueMaster> The major visible one that I can think of is the maximus bug.  Bug 528887
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528887 in maximus "maximus does not give default focus to newly started apps in combination with efl launcher" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528887
<NCommander> oh,*grumble*
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
 * plars has a flashback
<GrueMaster> I'm done.
<NCommander> GrueMaster: hrm, on #52887, I don't think I've had that issue on Dove
<plars> yes
<plars> it does
 * NCommander must be misremembering or is clicking automatically out of habit
<NCommander> anyone, can I move on?
<plars> yes
<GrueMaster> It is an issue on both.  The easiest way to reproduce it is to click on the terminal icon and then try to type in the window once the prompt comes up.
<GrueMaster> move on, please.
 * plars notes that zoho is now in the images and needs testing :)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<NCommander> So. OOo is broken. Again.
 * NCommander twiches
<dyfet> I think I just commented on this one :)  feeling dejavu...
<plars> dyfet: it's going around
<NCommander> Looks like it *might* be a buildd issue with the new babbage 3 buildds; I had issues with building OOo on my Babbage 3 (I got quite a bit of hardware stability, but that was written up to faulty board)
<NCommander> s/stability/instability
<NCommander> lamont ran a test build on the old lange based buildds, and I have one going on jocote (I'll have one running on my Dove post-beta if the jocote build fails)
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to coordinate with lamont on determining if OOo build failure is HW specific
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to coordinate with lamont on determining if OOo build failure is HW specific
<NCommander> dyfet: anything else to add?
 * NCommander notes he's also working on a fix and improvement for Dove netboot images
<dyfet> Only what I did earlier, that I had been looking at other ftbfs packages not arm specific though
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)
<JamieBennett> plars: zoho stuff has a few fixes already sitting in my bzr branch waiting for icons
 * NCommander pokes persia and ogasawara 
<NCommander> er
 * NCommander notes we lost ogra
<NCommander> We're almost out of time so moving on
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<GrueMaster> Well, not hearing from them, I can state that the image builds were essentially down for gtk respin which took quite a while.
<persia> server images are in poor shape.   netbook images look up-to-date.
<NCommander> persia: define poor shape
<persia> Last updated 3/23
 * persia will investigate more
<NCommander> persia: we can look at fixing and debugging the dove ones for B2/RC
<persia> Right.
<NCommander> [action] persia and NCommander to test and improve server image experience
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia and NCommander to test and improve server image experience
<NCommander> anything else?
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:00.
<NCommander> Goodnight folks!
<NCommander> (or goodday :-))
<pitti> o/
<kees> \o
 * kees goes looking for sabdfl and cjwatson
<kees> Keybuk, mdz: you guys unidled?
<Keybuk> I am here
<cjwatson> here
<mdz> kees: hi
<sabdfl> hi all
<kees> cjwatson: weird, tab-completion didn't find you a moment ago
<kees> ok
<kees> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:03. The chair is kees.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> kees: stealth mode
<kees> [TOPIC] action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  action review
<kees> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<kees> Riddell: any news on the KDE Updates Policy?
<Riddell> kees: mm, sorry, not yet
<Riddell> it never quite reaches the top of my todo
<cjwatson> is it delegatable?
<cjwatson> not that I'm always one to talk
<Riddell> not sure, it needs someone with the will to do it and close ties to KDE
<kees> Riddell: assuming it stays with you, when should we ping again?
<cjwatson> worth bringing up with other Kubuntu developers perhaps?
<Riddell> kees: after beta 2 probably good
<kees> Riddell: okay, next TB meeting then.  what is the next specific action that needs to be taken?
<Riddell> cjwatson: I think it needs to be led by someone who's a KDE developer, upstream aren't too interested in being led by downstream for that
<Riddell> kees: tidy up the draft and get final approval from KDE
<cjwatson> ok, I thought we had some KDE developers among kubuntu-dev though
<sabdfl> could Scott Kitterman have a stab? this either needs to get done, or dropped from the TB list
<Riddell> he could yes
<kees> ScottK: will you have time in the next 2 weeks to tidy up the KDE updates draft, and get approval from KDE?
<mdz> perhaps Riddell could take this offline as an action?
<ScottK> kees: I can tidy it up.  Hard to predict "KDE approval"
<kees> ScottK: heh, true
<kees> [ACTION] Riddell and ScottK to sort next steps of KDE Updates process
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Riddell and ScottK to sort next steps of KDE Updates process
<kees> "sabdfl to write up minutes from 2010-03-09 meeting, or delegate"
<sabdfl> i didn't, and don't foresee being able to do so
<sabdfl> anybody have a url for the log?
<cjwatson> I can take that - just wanted to know I wasn't duplicating
<sabdfl> ok thanks very much colin!
<kees> [ACTION] cjwatson to write up 2010-03-09 meeting minutes
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to write up 2010-03-09 meeting minutes
<kees> [TOPIC] community bugs (none)
<MootBot> New Topic:  community bugs (none)
<kees> [TOPIC] new issues?
<MootBot> New Topic:  new issues?
<kees> anything else?  our agenda is rather empty this time.
<mdz> 10.10?
<mdz> our website says that the technical board sets the direction for each Ubuntu release
<james_w> is libfaac a TB issue?
<mdz> in practice, this is virtually all done by more specialized teams
<kees> mdz: what was done by TB for 10.04?
<kees> james_w: what's the issue?
<mdz> kees: in my capacity on the TB, I nagged the engineering managers to publish their plans to mailing lists etc.
<mdz> and to make their planning process transparent to the community
<mdz> the results were sort of mixed, and I think we ought to do better this time
<kees> mdz: can you do that again?  sounds like you've got a template for it.
<james_w> kees: bug 374900: libfaac appears to be undistributable. This has been discussed on the TB list (more than once?), so I don't want to disrupt any discussion by acting as a member of ~ubuntu-archive.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 374900 in faac "Libfaac not LGPL" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374900
<mdz> kees: I will talk to robbiew about it; he is managing the planning process
<kees> mdz: I was going to suggest robbiew too, but thought maybe you wanted specifically a TB member to do it.
<mdz> in addition to asking people to be transparent, is there anything else the TB should be doing with regard to 10.10?
<kees> james_w: if action by ubuntu-archive is not straight-forward for libfacc, can you write up a plan that TB would need to act on?
<mdz> kees: (agenda) I'm also interested in checking in with the DMB (via cjwatson) to understand how things are going with the new regime
<kees> mdz: well, the only technical-ish thing I can think of for 10.10 is that we have to remind people to keep an eye out for breakage as we open the floodgates on unstable imports/merges.  coming off an LTS can be a bit jarring.
<james_w> kees: that's backwards from what I understand is happening, I started discussion in ~ubuntu-archive and was told that the TB was discussing the issue, so I'm following up to see if that is the case, and seeing if we can have a decision before release.
<kees> james_w: this is the first I've heard of it, but that is likely a commentary on my memory.  :P
<mdz> james_w: that is not the case (wrong verb tense)
<Keybuk> from the ML archives, sabdfl had the lead on that one
<mdz> there was a discussion (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-March/000115.html) but it died out
<james_w> sorry, yes, discussed
<mdz> sabdfl: ?
<sabdfl> i'm lookin'
<mdz> kees: has anyone floated the question of continuing to merge from testing vs. going back to unstable?
<kees> mdz: I don't think so; I prefer syncing from unstable, so the idea didn't even cross my mind.
<pitti> like, keeping that for future releases, or a post-mortem of the approach for lucid?
<mdz> pitti: the latter, followed by the former
<pitti> I also had assumed we'd go back to unstable, since the LTS plan in the wiki mentions that for LTSes only
<mdz> it's one of those things that people always suggest that we do
<mdz> and we have good reasons for not doing it
<mdz> but we're in a unique position now of being able to evaluate and see what the real differences were
<mdz> and how we can apply lessons learned to future releases
<pitti> I don't claim to have hard data, but my gut feeling is that lucid has been quite stable throughout the cycle (except for the things which we deliberately broke, such as nouveau/plymouth/etc.)
<mdz> pitti: that's my gut feeling as well, and my conjecture is that this probably improved overall productivity for developers
<persia> That's not been the case in some areas.  SDL is a particular example where things went very wrong.
<cjwatson> sorry, I had an annoying connection issue there
<mdz> I don't think we can productively evaluate it here, but I think it would be a good exercise
<persia> If the intent is to pull from testing, it may well be worth indicating that pulling from experimental has higher risk than it did in the past.
<kees> sounds like we need a port-mortem of testing-sync first, and we can go from there.  who would like to drive that?
<sabdfl> w.r.t. libfaac, the main issue appears to be a question about whether we can ship some very old code that was developed as part of the ISO standardisation process
<cjwatson> regarding maverick direction, my impression so far is that we have the start of a product vision (e.g. http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/336) and a number of specific plans among teams, but not a lot in the way of a technical overview yet
<cjwatson> perhaps it's putting the cart before the horse to try to construct that before teams have done more of their planning - not sure
<sabdfl> +1 to including it
<pitti> kees: I guess this amounts to discussing it on u-devel@ and collecting the results?
<pitti> kees: I'm happy to start this off
<kees> pitti: that was my thought as well
<sabdfl> i think we should express a preference for, and willingness to move to, a reimplementation once one is available
<kees> [ACTION] pitti to kick off post-mortem of sync-from-testing on u-devel@
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to kick off post-mortem of sync-from-testing on u-devel@
<ScottK> It might be nice to have some explicit lessons learned sessions at UDS like we did in Barcelona.
<sabdfl> james_w: so, you can close that bug, my reading of the copyright is that we *can* ship it
<mdz> pitti: thank you
<cjwatson> have we had a lawyer's opinion?
<sabdfl> cjwatson: not afaik
<cjwatson> I'm concerned that upstream has threatened to sue, per that TB thread
<james_w> sabdfl: the original license is distributable, so fine for multiverse, however the modifications are LGPLv2, which is not compatible with a non-free license when compiled in to a single library in my understanding.
<cjwatson> right, it's a combination issue not an individual-distributability issue
<cjwatson> upstream> sorry, upstream ffmpeg
<james_w> which would make the resulting package undistributable due to the combination of licenses.
<james_w> yes, there's a question of if we ship it, and then if we do, the question of if we link ffmpeg to it.
<czajkowski> .c
<sabdfl> hmm.. .can it not be structured to keep the different bits separate?
<sabdfl> i don't see any issue with modifying ffmpeg so as to autodetect and adapt to its presence
<sabdfl> that's not violating any copyright
<sabdfl> my read on the threat to sue was that it was not based on any substantive complaint
<cjwatson> if that's the case, it seems to me that we should be discussing it with upstream ffmpeg rather than Just Doing It :-)
<sabdfl> except, if they are not rational, there is not a lot of value in the discussion
<cjwatson> sabdfl: that seems a large presumption before starting the discussion ...
<sabdfl> and starting out a conversation with an indiscriminate threat to sue is very, Schilling
<james_w> I believe that the ffmpeg complaint would depend on your interpretation of the linking restrictions in the GPL.
<cjwatson> starting> well, actually, it seems that this is coming part-way through a discussion
<cjwatson> and that it got forwarded to us at that point
<cjwatson> would we lose all that much by pulling out the libfaac linkage for now?  from the thread, it seemed to me that it was encoders-only
<james_w> whether we can ship libfaac at all seems to depend on your reading of the compatibility of that license and the LPGL, along with your interpretation of the linking exception in the LGPL.
<james_w> yes, libfaac is purely an encoder
<james_w> and I'm not sure that ffmpeg links against it any more
<cjwatson> I'm concerned at us being burned by one unreasonable upstream and that making a presumption that further people with (possibly) genuine grievances are unreasonable
<cjwatson> s/that/then/
<mdz> cjwatson++
<kees> I hear a few things here:  a) is libfaac redistributable? ("yes")  b) is ffmpeg okay to compile-time link? ("no")  c) is ffmpeg okay to run-time link? ("yes")    am I missing something?
<mdz> (is everyone multitasking?)
<sabdfl> cjwatson: feel free to dive into it and amend the decision. for now, though, my view is we can ship what was proposed, on the basis that it's a straight derivative of work under an open source license
<cjwatson> there are lots of things under straight open-source licences that we can't and don't distribute in combination
<cjwatson> I should say "link together"
<cjwatson> FWIW, http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2010-March/084009.html is the root of the upstream thread
<cjwatson> comments there seem to indicate that it isn't the first time this was brought up, but I don't have full context
<james_w> kees: I disagree on (a), but if others agree then I will go along because I'm not that experienced at reading licenses
<cjwatson> my opinion (and this is an *opinion*, not amending a decision because I don't think I can do that solo) is that this particular piece of functionality is not worth the aggravation of a licensing dispute
<kees> cjwatson: I agree with that.  :)
<mdz> is anyone aware of an application which makes use of this plugin?
<kees> is "a" in dispute?  the thread I was reading seemed to be about linking against ffmpeg, rather than redistributability of libfaac
<cjwatson> and our justification for shipping the co-linking would appear to be grounded in the assumption that it's OK for GPLed code to link to incompatibly-licensed code by way of dlopen, which is a definite grey area; my understanding is that it is only really safe when the dlopen is of a generic interface which is known to be implemented in various ways some of which are compatible
<mdz> (not counting ones where the user can manually configure an arbitrary gstreamer pipeline)
<pitti> mdz: perhaps pitivi
<pitti> but I'm not sure; it can currently encode in other formats just fine
<mdz> pitti: you mean that's not just a text editor you made? ;-)
<pitti> mdz: did you not ever want to have one? 10ds -> cut 10 sequences :)
<mdz> pitti: I just looked at pitivi, and it only offers vorbis, celt, flac and speex
<james_w> mdz: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/faac/+bug/374900/comments/13 contains a list of packages in Ubuntu that use faac
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 374900 in faac "Libfaac not LGPL" [High,Triaged]
<james_w> some using the binary (which is fine), and others by linking
<ScottK> cjwatson: I think it that's not allowed, we have other problems.
<pitti> mdz: hm, ISTR it also offered wmv
<sabdfl> cjwatson: aiui, libfaac qualifies, in that it was developed as part of a standards process, has been around for a very long time, has never had any copyright asserted against it, and is widely used
<pitti> mdz: oh, you have to select a different muxer than ogg; for example, avi
<mdz> james_w: thanks. most of these seem to be command line tools with many other options for encoders
<cjwatson> sabdfl: it's not clear to me that being developed as part of a standards process is relevant; there is much such code that we couldn't ship
<sabdfl> the copyright gives license to developers *and users*
<mdz> pitti: aha, thanks (and the "AVI muxer" not the "ffmpeg AVI muxer")
<cjwatson> and it would appear to me, on the face of it, that it clearly contravenes our "field of endeavour" licensing guideline
<mdz> kees: time check?
<cjwatson> in fact it's quite explicit
<cjwatson> "Copyright is not released for non MPEG-2 NBC/MPEG-4 Audio conforming products"
<james_w> mdz: yes. We would only be taking away one option of encoder if we remove it, but some people prefer aac (some mp3 players apparently only support aac for example)
<cjwatson> there is no way we would accept that in a new package
<kees> mdz: only selecting a chair is next, and I think you're up next alphabetically.
<mdz> kees: <mdz> kees: (agenda) I'm also interested in checking in with the DMB (via cjwatson) to understand how things are going with the new regime
<kees> mdz: ah, sorry, missed that
<kees> do we need a vote, or to continue discussion offline about libfaac?
<mdz> someone needs to take ownership of it
<mdz> sabdfl was first responder, but it sounds like he doesn't have time for it
<kees> cjwatson: can you drive the libfaac issue to conclusion?
<cjwatson> I guess I'm unlucky by virtue of having expressed a strong opinion, eh?
<kees> :)
<mdz> cjwatson: and not only that, a strong grasp of the issues involved
<mdz> and excellent judgment!
<cjwatson> established over the previous hour in which I hurriedly read up on it.  but ok ...
<pitti> kees: hm, license issues don't seem like something vote-able to me?
<kees> pitti: yeah
<pitti> the "drop encoding from lucid" question certainly is, though
<sabdfl> the code in question is not going to change license, it is effectively orphaned
<kees> [ACTION] cjwatson to drive libfaac issue to conclusion (bug 374900)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to drive libfaac issue to conclusion (bug 374900)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 374900 in faac "Libfaac not LGPL" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374900
<kees> 4 minutes!  :)
<kees> cjwatson: how is DMB progressing?
<cjwatson> seems ok.  next? :-)
<cjwatson> um, we've processed a number of candidates, with some robust disagreement in places but basically the level I would expect
<mdz> it's always gratifying to know that these things always work out exactly as we expect, the first time, with no unforeseen questions being raised
<cjwatson> mdz: :-P
<cjwatson> there has been some confusion about exact voting practices, which is basically administrative but brought on by the fairly large quorum
<mdz> I recall a thread about DMB's implicit membership in core-dev
<cjwatson> and we need to do something about the meeting time, which now doesn't quite work for everyone - but by and large it seems to be working out fairly well
<cjwatson> mdz: yes, and it was made just an owner rather than an admin-member to avoid that
<cjwatson> the same needs to be done for a few other teams, but I trust the current DMB members not to abuse the privileges unintentionally granted them in the meantime
<mdz> cjwatson: are there DMB members who are not core-dev members? and if so, what's holding them back? ;-)
<cjwatson> persia's application is pending, IIRC
<ScottK> If not, someone should apply for him.
<persia> I haven't applied yet, and with the change to owner, plan not to apply (but haven't withdrawn it yet).
<cjwatson> and there are one or two others
<cjwatson> I'll try to remember to issue some kind of exhortation next meeting
<kees> we're out of time...
<kees> mdz, you're the next chair; thanks everyone!
<kees> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:01.
<james_w> thanks
<pitti> thanks everyone
<apctr_> hi all, i am planning to hold ubuntu booth during techfest on 16-17th this month, i'd like to have swags,flyers for this or  i am in the wrong channel :)
<persia> apctr_: You're in the wrong channel.  Unfortunately, I don't know which is the right channel.
<persia> I presume you'd do best to work through your LoCo, but I'm not sure of the particulars.
<czajkowski> apctr_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences
<apctr_> thanx czajkowski
<czajkowski> no problem
<czajkowski> apctr_: if you need a hand in future best palce to ask is #ubuntu-locoteams
<apctr_> ohk, czajkowski
<Seveas> @now utc
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 06 2010, 16:58:00
<JFo> o/
 * JFo settles in for the kernel team meeting
<jjohansen> \o
<cnd> o/
<cking> o/  i'm here too
<ogasawara> o/
 * manjo waves oo/
<cking> manjos' got two heads?
<JFo> aaa manjo has 2 heads! :-)
 * apw flutters in
<cnd> manjo: where'd you get a second head?
<JFo> lol
<apw> zapho-manjo-box
 * manjo is in dual head mode 
<apw> zaphod-manjo-box
<JFo> manjo, good answer :)
 * JFo has his towel
 * csurbhi rushes in
 * apw puts jfo's towel between his feet
 * amitk waves
<JFo> :-(
 * manjo will look like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ravana.jpg soon
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (9 bugs, 2 blueprints)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Beta 2 Milestoned Bugs (58 bugs against all packages (down 35))
<JFo>  * 6 linux kernel bugs (down 7)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug (down 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs (down 1)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Release Targeted Bugs (295 bugs against all packages (down 5))
<JFo>  * 29 linux kernel bugs (down 3)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs  (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug (down 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs (down 1)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Milestoned Features -
<JFo>  * 0 blueprints
<JFo>     
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Bugs with Patches Attached:120 (down 3)
<JFo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<JFo> Breakdown by status:
<JFo> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
 * JFo notes there were no upward trends in the data this week
<JFo> great work you guys :)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
<JFo>  * All work items done or postponed
<JFo> only remaining tasks are for release
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<apw> Over-active been in VT is under investigation.  We expect to write up the configuration report in time for Beta-2.
<apw> ..
<apw> s/been/beep
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<apw> We have ongoing issues with Lid detection, currently we have LVDS lid detection reverted and we are looking at the fallout from that change.
<apw> ..
<sconklin> Nothing more ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
<manjo> apport -- allow us to detect frequency of failure:POSTPONED all other work items done
<manjo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<jjohansen> still looking for the root cause of Bug #552225, Bug #544764, Bug #549428, Bug #458299
<apw> (one common root cause?)
<jjohansen> it seems to only surface in highly loaded, and fragmented memory systems
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 552225 in apparmor "system bogs down when apparmor is running" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/552225
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 544764 in apparmor "unkillable apparmor_parser" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/544764
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 549428 in apparmor "Triggers permanent high i/o load after upgrade" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/549428
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 458299 in linux "apparmor_parser: page allocation failure. order:5" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/458299
<jjohansen> not positive, but very likely
<jjohansen> it is always replacement related, under high memory pressure/fragmented memory
<jjohansen> where fast path allocation fails and we fall back to vmalloc for the dfa
<jjohansen> it seems to be very much related to the use of swap
<jjohansen> as I have reports that turning off swap makes it go away
<jjohansen> and in the end may be a bug in the mm and not apparmor
<jjohansen> also verified that the policy compiler is building isomorphs on multi-policy load and not suffering from a bug, and looked at ways to fix this for M so that we can use multi-profile load and have automated policy verification.
<apw> nasty, though swapping would imply the other known triggers, low memory and fragmentation
<jjohansen> yep
<apw> how is the upstreaming going?
<jjohansen> we haven't been using multi-policy load because we have known that it is generating alternate dfas, and haven't been able to verify them
<jjohansen> heh, I found a few more problems with what I was trying to kick out last week so it got delayed into this week, I have been working through, the checks to send out this morning
<jjohansen> I expect a few more audit changes will be required yet, and the path generation is some what dependent upon the __d_path patch discussion that I am also rekicking out patches for
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<apw> i think this one is basically done and i thought we pulled it off
<apw> ..
<bjf> apw, I'll make sure it's gone from next week
<apw> ta
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<bjf> More arsenal work. Wrapping up the survey this week.
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (cnd)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (cnd)
<cnd> no news
<cnd> ..
<apw> do we have things in a PPA now?
<manjo> cnd, proabably a good idea to talk to desktop for M to add an airplane mode
<cnd> they've been in a ppa for a while
<cnd> manjo: airplane mode?
<apw> trying to work out whether your task is 'done' reporting wise or needs targetting for release
<manjo> ie turn off radios etc
<JFo> cnd, like a low power mode
<cnd> that seems outside the scope of this task though
<JFo> pgraner has some thoughts on that too
<apw> cirtainly outside this tasks, we should make sure that kind of thing gets on the UDS agenda
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> We have Bug #532553, which is just a config oversight as far I can tell
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532553 in linux-ec2 "linux-image-2.6.32-302-ec2 is missing iptables module xt_recent" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532553
<jjohansen> the only question being whether we want to turn it on this late
<jjohansen> ..
<apw> jjohansen, i would think anything netfilter
<apw> related is handy to ahve in that environment, and we have a window
<apw> to respin for release i would say
<jjohansen> okay, I'll send a patch out this morning
<apw> for somethign which only adds a module which is very low risk
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Lucid (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Lucid (apw)
<apw> Beta-2 kernels are in an built.  We are not expecting to change the kernel before beta-2.  We are expecting some change still before release.
<apw> Otherwise the worst issues are graphics related to my mind, and mostly getting resolved.
<apw> doubt they will all get resolved before release however.
<pgraner> apw: I set the expectation that we will have at least one more upload prior to release freeze
<apw> we are expecting to be getting a stable update too
<apw> pgraner, thanks
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<manjo> smb on vacation ?
<bjf> noone has his data?
<bjf> csurbhi, ?
<manjo> heh
<bjf> guess not
<apw> sorry no i don't see to have it
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<apw> i had a quick look and there are a couple of changes to last week things moving forward ..
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo> 709 Lucid Bugs (up 141)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential (up 57) ====
<JFo>   * 223 lucid bugs
<JFo> ==== regression-update (down 1) ====
<JFo>   * 11 karmic bugs
<JFo>   * 5 jaunty bugs
<JFo>   * 2 intrepid bugs
<JFo>   * 1 hardy bug
<JFo> ==== regression-release (down 1) ====
<JFo>   * 52 karmic bugs
<JFo>   * 21 jaunty bugs
<JFo>   * 11 intrepid bugs
<JFo>   * 4 hardy bugs
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed (no change) ====
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug
<JFo> please note the continued upswing in bugs incoming and regressions against lucid
<JFo> ..
<apw> inevitable as people start testing
<apw> ..
<JFo> indeed
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> * The next Kernel Team 'regression-' bug day is Wednesday, April 7. Thanks for working on these last week.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<manjo> ..
<kamalm> o/
<bjf> kamalm, go
<kamalm> Just FYI -- I am working on the "volume keys never release" issue -- seems to be a common problem for various laptop models (bug 550979, bug 420473, bug 374884).
<kamalm> The problem can be fixed in 'udev' by adding bits to /lib/udev/... scripts -- I plan to produce a patched 'udev' package for those bug submitters to test.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 550979 in linux "Volume increase & decrease by function buttons never release on Dell Studio 1558" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/550979
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420473 in linux "Coolbox QBook 270-02: volume keys produce more than one key event" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420473
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 374884 in linux "Keyboard quirk is required for Mitac 8050QDA Fn Volume keys to function." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374884
<kamalm> ..
<bjf> kamalm, that's great!
<bjf> anyone else?
<apw> kamalm, nice ...
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:28.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<apw> bjf, thanks
<kamalm> bjf: thanks
<cking> thanks once again bjf
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur: ready?
 * jjohansen still here
<mdeslaur> yep!
<kees> jdstrand: ok, ready
<kees> okay, starting
<kees> I'm testing openjdk-6 updates currently, should publish today hopefully.  next I'll be gathering up glibc updates, there a a bunch that have been collecting.
<kees> after that, back to embargoed stuff
<kees> jdstrand: your turn
<jdstrand> k
<jdstrand> so yesterday I finished my BP items with the libvirt 0.7.5-5ubuntu19 upload (waiting to be accepted)
<jdstrand> I was able to backport everything I did for 0.7.7/upstreaming except save/restore, which has a workaround in place
<jdstrand> upstream has been ack'ing my patches throughout the day today :)
<kees> ah, good
<jdstrand> for the rest of the week, I plan to work on moin and erlang
<jdstrand> I plan to go throught the clamav stuff ScottK submitted as well
<jdstrand> and the firefox update should go out too
<jdstrand> hopefully I can get through all that ;)
<jdstrand> today I'm doing iso testing
<jdstrand> and I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> my turn?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: sure
<kees> mdeslaur: yup
<mdeslaur> So, I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I've just uploaded sponsored mahara packages
<mdeslaur> I'll take a look at ffmpeg
<mdeslaur> And will probably work on php5
<kees> that list was pretty long for ffmpeg.  siretart and you did a good bit of research.  :)
<mdeslaur> If I have time, I'll start going through CVE-2009* as I did for the older ones
<mdeslaur> kees: yeah! it's painful
<kees> I wonder what happened here: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/open-cves-6mon.png
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: btw, excellent job going through all those old CVEs last week
<kees> yeah
<mdeslaur> kees: whoa...that's odd
<mdeslaur> it _doubled_?
<kees> I can't see where 80 CVEs came from.
<kees> well, the bottom line is 40, not 0
<mdeslaur> openjdk and firefox
<kees> (should I force it to be 0?)
<jdstrand> I think so
<kees> oh, yeah, openjdk has that many
<jdstrand> kees: does that list have partner too?
<jdstrand> kees: and does it include lucid?
<kees> if it's in active/ yes
<jdstrand> s/list/graph/
<kees> jdstrand: that does not include lucid
<jdstrand> kees: it seems acroread has 36 medium and sun-java6 has 23
<jdstrand> along with the aforementioned openjdk
<mdeslaur> acroread?
<jdstrand> acrobat reader from partner
<kees> ah, no, graph is only "SUPPORTED" from ubuntu-table, which is not partner
<jdstrand> those have got to be old though (from dapper)
<kees> but it does run with -S, so not lucid
<mdeslaur> acroread is partner, and only vulnerable in lucid
<kees> so, yeah, openjdk and firefox
<kees> wheee
<mdeslaur> there may have been a slew of webkit also
<jdstrand> the firefox ones may be out of date-- I'll go through them all this week
<kees> mdeslaur: do you want to postpone your workitem items?  looks like you and mvo are the only ones with stuff remaining.
<mdeslaur> kees: yes, I do
<mdeslaur> kees: thanks, postponed now
<kees> mdeslaur: cool, I flipped it to Deferred too
<kees> excellent.
 * jdstrand wonders if security-lucid-catchall-medium should be 'Good Progress'
<mdeslaur> The only thing I want to do before lucid is released is to make sure the openpgp card works
<mdeslaur> as it didn't last time I tried
<jdstrand> well, a bunch was postponed, so maybe not
<kees> jdstrand: yeah, probably. changing...
<kees> it's more than "slow progress" but not really "good".  but "good" is probably closer.
<kees> robbiew, jjohansen, anyone: anything else to bring up?
<robbiew> nope :)
<jjohansen> no
<kees> alrighty then!  thanks everyone.
<jdstrand> o/
<mdeslaur> thanks
<ralemi> help
<ralemi> help
<mimor> The approval meeting is in 30 mins right?
<rrnwexec> not sure... there's an IRC command... will have to look it up
<rrnwexec> i'm in pidgin and it doesn't seem to have a quiet option
<mimor> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA => in 10 min's right?
<ralemi> Should be mimor, think so
<mimor> k thx ralemi
<mimor> saw you're on the list too
<mimor> btw, nice portfolio you've got there ^^
<mimor> I'm kinda jealous :P
<ralemi> don't be I'm sure its gonna be ok...
<mimor> i sure hope so... otherwise I'm already done with ><
<ralemi> :D, Most of the people I know got it the second time,
<mimor> oh
<mimor> darn
<ZachK_> Meeting yet?
<popey> hullo!
<ZachK_> Hello?
<ralemi> Hi popey
<ZachK_> popey: hey Alan...
<ZachK_> popey: nice to see you again
<mimor> hello
<popey> we need to wait a few minutes for other members of the board to arrive
<ZachK_> popey: you remember me don't you?
<mimor> ok
 * popey pings Seveas stgraber highvoltage 
 * stgraber waves
<popey> hey!
<highvoltage> popey: pong!
<highvoltage> did I make a timezone miscalculation? I thought that the meeting was at 20:00 UTC?
<ZachK_> highvoltage: it is
<popey> ooo
<popey> you're right
<popey> haha, it's only 19:00 UTC isnt it?
<popey> go back to sleep highvoltage / Seveas / stgraber :)
<ralemi> DLS!
 * highvoltage > zzzZZZzzz
 * persia encourages everyone to set their default timezone to Reykjavik
<popey> :D
 * popey goes back to watching BBC Parliament
<highvoltage> persia: while you're at it, convince the countries who do DST to not do so :)
<ZachK_> so no meeting or what
<popey> ZachK_: not for another 53 minutes
<ZachK_> popey: ok great
<mimor> ok
<ZachK_> :)
<persia> highvoltage: Yeah, well.  Not my fault if y'all haven't the sense to move yet :)
<highvoltage> persia: we don't have DST in .za :)
<persia> s/y'all/they/
<ZachK_> I live in the States
<persia> Indiana or Arizona?
<ZachK_> Illinois
<persia> Oh well.
<ZachK_> yeah
<mkarnicki> Excuse me, I was wondering if EMEA Membership Meeting already took place?
<ralemi> In half an hour
<mkarnicki> Summer time confuses me ;) Thanks.
<highvoltage>  * 5 minutes to EMEA meeting
<ralemi> ....ping....
<ralemi> anotice how to I ignore join/quits? /ignore doesn't work
<ZachK_> ralemi: depending upon the client (chat client) you're using you might not have the option
<ralemi> I see, thanks
<ZachK_> ralemi: what client are you using?
<ralemi> smuxi
<ZachK_> never heard of that one
<ralemi> :D
 * stgraber waves again
<popey> evening
<popey> Seveas: you about?
<popey> i think we're missing Matthew and Mark
<stgraber> Got a SMS from Jonathan: Just hit my internet cap! Just topping up will be there in a minute
<popey> haha
 * ZachK_ laughs
<highvoltage> I'm here!
<ZachK_> hey highvoltage
<highvoltage> (sorry ran into some internet problems)
<ZachK_> it's ok....we all do
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<stgraber> highvoltage: I copy/pasted your SMS ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: thanks :)
<rrnwexec1> greetings, Randall here. also had a net issue.
 * ZachK_ is here....with no net issues...lol
<ralemi> Rex...present :D
<mimor> I'm present
<popey> ok, we only have 3 out of 7 members available
 * popey pokes Seveas 
<highvoltage> we should share phone numbers so that we can poke people when they're not here
<ZachK_> agreed
<highvoltage> (and haven't said before that they aren't able to make it)
<popey> things come up unfortunately
<ZachK_> so.......
<popey> 3 is too few really
<popey> out of 7
<mimor> so meeting's canceled?
<popey> one moment
<popey> we can hang about a bit and wait or we could try and get someone like elky pleia2 Technoviking cody-somerville or someone else to help..
 * popey wonders if one of those pinged will be about
<highvoltage> popey: cool, so if we don't have quorum we could get someone from like, the americas council to stand in?
<popey> ya
<popey> I've stood in before on the USA and Asia ones
<popey> time one of them returned the favour ;)
<ZachK_> popey: agreed
<highvoltage> cool.
<Technoviking> I'm here
<popey> you available for 40 mins? :)
 * maco thinks pleia2 is hiding
<Technoviking> but wirless is in flaky part of the building, so I disappear and come back
<popey> smart move
<maco> she was activ less than 5 minutes ago
<maco> *active
<pleia2> swamped at work, sorry :(
<Technoviking> but yes I can
<popey> no worries pleia2
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<popey> ZachK_: you're up first, please introduce yourself..
<ZachK_> Well I'm Zach Kriesse...my personal wiki page may be found here at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZachK_
<ZachK_> I'm a hardcore Linux user/Wiki Editor and I post on the forums when I can...
<ZachK_> If I can help I will usually by answering the question myself, researching the problem to find an answer, or if I don't know/can't find an answer I usually know somebody who does....
<popey> where in the community would you say your main focus is?
<ZachK_> Don't know if you guys know of the Ubuntu Beginners Team?
<highvoltage> ZachK_: quite a bit of your wiki page is about things you plan to do or currently doing, is there perhaps more that you have already done already?
<ZachK_> highvoltage: ah little outdated....man..
<ZachK_> my page that is..
<popey> its kinda the first thing we ask for is an updated wiki page
<ZachK_> popey: yes I know...
<popey> without it it's hard for us to make a judgement about the work done
<ZachK_> popey: most of the info there is correct and dated except for the one where I will most likely be a team lead later today
<popey> where in the community would you say your main focus is?
<ZachK_> My main hardcore focus is helping the new users come to Linux/Ubuntu...
<popey> how do you do that?
<ZachK_> Forums, IRC, Wiki Editing(Keeping Info Accurate and Updated) and just about anywhere else
<popey> I'm finding it difficult to see documentary evidence of a sustained contribution to Ubuntu..
<ZachK_> popey: .....
<highvoltage> I'm going to say -1 for now, I can't take future considerations into account, and I'd need some more details of the support you've provided. Also, please ensure your wiki page is up to date before you re-apply.
<highvoltage> s/future considerations/future contributions/
<ZachK_> the last time i applied for membership i was told more time was needed...not more contributions...
<ZachK_> but ok...
<popey> you have some nice testimonials
<popey> if you can gether more evidence of the work you've done that would make our job a heap easier
<ZachK_> Yes........I know this but it's difficult to do so when you have no pc access for four months..
<Technoviking> I'm going to say 0, I think you just need a little more work
<ZachK_> I was finally able to get my pc back last week...
<popey> difficult to contribute in a sustained way without a computer I'm sure, but not impossible :)
<ZachK_> Ask around...I'm everywhere all the time...
<highvoltage> ZachK_: I can sympathise with you, but in cases like that you'll just have to be patient unfortunately
<popey> I shouldn't have to ask around
<popey> it should be documented on your wiki page
<popey> thats kinda the point of it
<stgraber> I'm going to follow with a 0, time is great but what we're looking for is sustained contribution over time. So just come back in a few months with more work done and you should have your membership then.
<ralemi> .
 * popey will also vote 0 for now, if you can come back with a documented set of things you've achieved that would be magic!
<ZachK_> stgraber: same i was told.....except for the more contributions part....bodhizazen would say the same for me...
<popey> ZachK_: ask him to write you a testimonial then
<ZachK_> popey: already have...he was supposed to but never did...
<popey> I can't help you there, sorry.
<popey> ok, next up is Ronnie Tucker who doesn't look like he's here
<ZachK_> One thing that I've forgotten to note...the padawans that i've had...i've had four...
<ZachK_> nigel_nb is one of them....
<popey> get them to do the same..
<ZachK_> but what the hay...
<ZachK_> bye
<popey> all the best!
<popey> ralemi: looks like you're up next!
<popey> introduce yourself please.
<balto_> hi there
<balto_> sorry got disconnected
<balto_> had to login by new nick
<balto_> Hello everyone,
<balto_> I am Reza "Rex" Alemi, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RexAlemi
<popey> ahh, balto_ == relami ?
<popey> :)
<balto_> I am a software engineer and project manager in Vancouver,
<balto_> Have worked with Ubuntu as a user for several years, whoever only in Vancouver did I sense the need
<balto_> to step up and actively promote Ubuntu.
<balto_> So, I Have been an active evangelist for the past 6 months as summarized in my wiki
<balto_> Created a guide to show my own boss and then the other small and medium business owners
<balto_> how they can use Ubuntu as their platform
<balto_> Organized a game team development team on Ubuntu technologies,
<balto_> and volunteered in the community events, made screencasts, done home support visits, etc
<balto_> On the developer side, I have just done patches and hacks, nothing to brag about, but my bazar
<balto_> branch was just approved today so I hope more is to come on that side, Although I really am not a
<balto_> developer
<balto_> Tried to do as much documentation and specification as possible. (340 wiki pages in 6 months and
<balto_> counting)
<balto_> And hope to increase awareness and build trust relationship to get traction for Ubuntu in the city.
<balto_> (demonstrations for a total of 11 businesses for the past six months)
<balto_> I really feel that there is an opportunity to increase market share for Ubuntu in businesses in
<balto_> Vancouver, and that can lead as a poc to attract more traction for Ubuntu in North America.
<popey> 3 lines is usually a good intro.. :)
<balto_> :D
<balto_> I am an evangelist, what did you expect?
<popey> heh
<popey> what format did the guide take that you wrote?
<popey> a printed doc?
<balto_> No, A wiki, with a port to PDF
<highvoltage> balto_: does the Vancouver loco team do anything outside of advocating/support (such as bug days, packaging jams, etc)
<balto_> All sorts,
<balto_> but Randall is here and he will give you more details
<balto_> we have bug squishes and support events
<balto_> I am very proud of my work there as well
<balto_> http://www.mccstudy.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=vanloco:supportsat
<balto_> .
<balto_> We had a lucid bugsquish just last week
<rrnwexec1> i can vouch for Rex's efforts in Vancouver. i've added my testimonial to his wiki.
<highvoltage> balto_: when (more or less) did you start contributing to the Vancouver loco?
<balto_> October 2009
<highvoltage> well, I like that you're active with bugs on launchpad, that combined with your loco work, gets you a +1 from me
<balto_> Thank you Jonathan
<Technoviking> +1 for me, good body of work
<balto_> Thank you,
<popey> i like the idea of support saturday
<popey> what kinds of people turn up?
<popey> completely green newbies or more experienced types?
<balto_> The credit for that goes to Randall
<balto_> but we have had from installing batteries in wireless mouse
<balto_> to debugging drivers for GPS devices
<rrnwexec1> I will say that Rex is a superb SupportHero at our SupportSaturday events. I've seen him tackle all kinds of problems, with excellent customer focus.
<popey> and your sitting in the coffee shop.. what do you talk about with people during those sessions?
<balto_> the idea is to show the people how support should be
<balto_> I put on an eye candy in a rainy day and wait ( I always like fishing)
<balto_> a game, a nice animation
<balto_> and then someone comes forward and says "cool, what is it?"
<balto_> and then they are hooked ;)
<popey> i like that idea
<highvoltage> yay Seveas_
<Seveas_> nay Seveas
<Seveas_> isp fail, nationwide down
<popey> Seveas_: fix it!
<Seveas_> popey, I wish I could...
<popey> ok, based on solid community advocacy I'm going to +1 balto_ too
<popey> Seveas_: bah, you're no use!
<Seveas_> on some flaky 3g now, just for apologizing :(
<highvoltage> Seveas_: you're not alone, bunch of people had network problems tonight it seems
<balto_> The coffee shop was originally from Randal to
<Technoviking> popey: still need me?
<Seveas_> highvoltage, *.telfort.nl is down
<popey> Seveas_: sticking around?
<Seveas_> and I'm off, need to save 3G bw for emergencies
<Seveas_> apologies for not being there
<popey> np
<popey> it happens
<highvoltage> any final questions for balto_?
<Technoviking> Seveas_: no problem
<popey> stgraber: ?
<stgraber> nope
<popey> stgraber: just waiting on your vote then :)
<stgraber> +1
<balto_> Thank you
<Kletskous> Excuse me; dan I ask a question or am I disturbing something? I am new here and also don't know much about irc..
<popey> thats 4, congrats balto_
<highvoltage> balto_: congratulations and welcome!
<balto_> Thanks Alan
<rrnwexec1> congratulations Rex. well-deserved!
<popey> Kletskous: yeah, there's a meeting right now, you might want to ask in #ubuntu-irc
<balto_> Thank you Randall
<Technoviking> Kletskous: please /join #ubuntu-irc and ask away:)
<balto_> I feel like an American Idol contestent :D
<roscoe> Way to go Rex
<balto_> Thanks Roscoe
<mimor> congrats balto_ you definitely deserve it!
<highvoltage> balto_: bah, you're way better than that ;)
<balto_> :D
<highvoltage> mimor: around?
<mimor> yes
<popey> you're up.. a brief intro if you please
<balto_> Thanks guys (and lady) have a great day. I'll just stick around to cheer Randall then, if you don't mind
<mimor> I'm Mike, 23 working as at the helpdesk for al IT related stuff in Ghent (Belgium)
<mimor> I've been supporting Ubuntu since late 2008
<mimor> and I'm one of the more active members of my city
<mimor> but I'm (not yet) a developer/coder/debugger
<highvoltage> mimor: what kind of testing do you do?
<mimor> I've got 2 laptops of my own and my desktop. I run mostly Beta's of ubuntu on them
<mimor> then I have apport to create reports of crashes
<mimor> I feels sorry I still can't debug them myself (lack of programmingskills)
<highvoltage> mimor: I notice on https://bugs.launchpad.net/~mike-morraye-be/+reportedbugs that you haven't filed any bugs yet, what do you do when you find a problem during your testing?
<mimor> I have apport to check against the launchpad db whether it's a new one or not
<mimor> then almost every time, I just have to compare the results with existing ones and mark the bug as affecting me
<mimor> but that's my main point of contributing
<mimor> (far from it)
<popey> we value testing immensely, there's not enough of it being done, but I'd like to see more documentation of a sustained contribution on your wiki page before going for membership, so I'm going to vote +0 for now.
<highvoltage> mimor: I think you have the right attitude and that you're making some good contributions, but I think you need to solidify it a bit more, perhaps join the QA team and help out there, and get some of the people you work with to write up some testimonials on your wiki page
<mimor> ok
<popey> yeah, thats a great idea
<mimor> This appliance was more some kind of finding out what's it all about
<highvoltage> also a +0 from me, but I hope we see you soon in a few months
<Technoviking> +0 for me also, I would like to see a larger body of work
<popey> :) understood mimor
<mimor> it'll take a little more than a few months
<mimor> :)
<mimor> but hey
<Technoviking> mimor: hope to see you back
<popey> keep going, we need more testers
<mimor> the testing is something I realy like, but I don't have enough knowledge :s
<mimor> so, it'll take more time
<mimor> for now, I'll do some 'spreading the word'
<popey> good stuff
<mimor> feeling like a prayer
<highvoltage> mimor: that's what joining the QA team could help a lot with, there are people there with lots of knowledge who will gladly share it
<popey> ok, we're out of time but we still have rrnwexec1
<mimor> can you point me in the right direction where to start joining the QA group?
<popey> mimor: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
<mimor> thx
<highvoltage> I don't think we're stepping over another meeting, I still have a few minutes
<popey> np
<popey> we are :)
<Technoviking> there is a CC meeting, but the agenda is blank, so unless SABDFL shows up:)
<popey> cc meeting, but there's nothing on it
<mako> hmm
<popey> anyway, I'm going to go directly with a massive +1 for rrnwexec1
<highvoltage> we can continue until they have quorum
<rrnwexec1> Hi, I'm Randall Ross :) I will try to be quick. thanks popey.
<sabdfl> evening all
<Technoviking> hey mako
<Technoviking> and booms goes the dynamite
<popey> hi sabdfl / mako, we're just finishing off the EMEA RMB
<maco> hey mako's online
<rrnwexec1> should i continue, or perhaps we should take this to another channel?
<sabdfl> np popey, we have an easy agenda, can wait
<sabdfl> keep going rrnwexec1
<popey> cool, thanks
<rrnwexec1> thanks
<rrnwexec1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RandallRoss
<rrnwexec1> that's my page.
<rrnwexec1> I'm an IT executive usually. I'm currently taking a sabbatical to work on some important projects. Ubuntu is firmly in this category.
<rrnwexec1> I'm the Community Manager of the Ubuntu Vancouver LoCo. I'm also the Ubuntu Vancouver "Buzz Generator". I have been using Ubuntu exclusively my personal equipment since 2006.
<rrnwexec1> taking questions now.
<Technoviking> rrnwexec1: perhaps the largest amount of testimonials I have ever seen.
<popey> yeah
<rrnwexec1> thank you.
<highvoltage> rrnwexec1: "Randall envisions Ubuntu as the "next big thing". It's not just another GNU/Linux variant"
<highvoltage> rrnwexec1: what sets Ubuntu the most apart for you?
<popey> you collecting them or something like Pokemon?
<rrnwexec1> community, and a tremendous ethos.
<rrnwexec1> community is the killer app for ubuntu.
<rrnwexec1> and "Humanity" brings it to the level of hugely important.
<highvoltage> +1 for similar reasons as balto_, great community work and a good example for other loco teams!
<rrnwexec1> thank you.
<highvoltage> stgraber / Technoviking ?
<stgraber> an easy +1 here
<Technoviking> rrnwexec1: does the Vancouver Loco have bigs plans for the Ubuntu 10.04 release
<rrnwexec1> yes!
<Technoviking> +1 here, great great work
<balto_> PARTY!!!!
<highvoltage> rrnwexec1: congratulations and welcome!
<rrnwexec1> we are hosting "The Best Lucid Lynx Party in the World"
<rrnwexec1> May 01
<stgraber> ;)
<popey> hah
<rrnwexec1> I am previewing Lucid Lynx tomorrow night
<balto_> and you are ALL invited
<roscoe> yay for Ubuntu Vancouver 2 for 2!!!! Congrats Randall
<highvoltage> rrnwexec1: even beating the 5000-people Paris parties?
<rrnwexec1> i want to thank Rex and all the amazing members of Ubuntu Vancouver too. without our amazing community we wouldn't be where we are.
<balto_> Congrats Randall!!
<rrnwexec1> and SABDFL. thank you for making this whole thing.
<popey> well I make that 4 votes, congratulations rrnwexec1, you're an inspiration
<rrnwexec1> thank you all.
<sabdfl> yw
<balto_> We will beat them 10 to one, we weight a lot more :)
<popey> and thus ends the EMEA RMB meeting
<rrnwexec1> see you in Vancouver some day.. bye for now.
<balto_> bye every one, thanks Mako for the wait
<highvoltage> hi sabdfl, how are things?
<sabdfl> groovy thanks, how are you Jonathan?
<popey> thanks again Technoviking
<sabdfl> popey: is that a wrap?
<highvoltage> sabdfl: also groovy, thanks :)
<popey> yup sabdfl
<Technoviking> popey: no problem, glad to help
<Technoviking> Anyone got anything they want to discuss with the CC?
<sabdfl> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:11. The chair is sabdfl.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<popey> yes, Kletskous would like to raise the question of the release party in second life
<popey> Kletskous is new to irc
<Kletskous> oh yes, thank you popey
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] 10.04 release party in Second Life
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.04 release party in Second Life
<sabdfl> go ahead Kletskous
<Kletskous> I am Catharina and I've send an e-mail about this to the community council
<RubenHaan> ah yeah that would be nice to have someone who cando a speach at secondlife for the selebration at secondlife
<Kletskous> on May 1st we will do a release party for Lucid on SL (our Ubuntu Linux group in cooperation with the 4freedomgroup)
<popey> what requirements would the speaker need, in order to join in?
<Kletskous> we have musicians, a dj, gadgets and stuff but a speaker would be great
<Kletskous> Well there are several ways of doing this; it can be done with an avatar on stage or with streaming video
<sabdfl> if we have a speaker, they would be much better off if they were already comfortable with / regular users of second life
<Kletskous> I there anyone of the community council familar with SL?
<mako> so i think it sounds like a great idea
<mako> but i've not used second life before
<popey> I have used it
<Kletskous> Well it depends. That is not needed when you do it with streaming video
<highvoltage> Kletskous: is there a public list of ubuntu second life users somewhere?
<popey> but only in terms of "installed client, went in, flew about a bit, noticed a lot of unsavoury stuff and an empty linux shop, and left"
<RubenHaan> we as group in sl can also help ppl getting used to sl before the event
<Kletskous> no, our group has about 1400 members but they all go under the name of their avatar..
<Technoviking> popey: similar expereince here
<digitalfiz> group lists for secondlife are not public
<digitalfiz> im guessing to avoid spam
<sabdfl> i think it would be a fun exercise for whoever took it up
<sabdfl> but they'd need to devote a few hours to getting setup in advance, then clear some time before the actual event to make sure it was all groovy
<popey> sounds like a job for jono :)
<sabdfl> is there a URL with "get it working on Lucid" instructions?
<Kletskous> no, but you can just download the official second life client and it will work
<sabdfl> that sounds good enough
<Kletskous> and register of course at the Lindens...
<sabdfl> i'll take an hour this week and try to get up and running. if it goes smoothly, i'll be happy to speak.
<digitalfiz> there are problems with sound and 64bit ubuntu because of pulseaudios horrible alsa plugin but i think the newest viewer has a more up to date openal that has direct pulseaudio support
<Kletskous> great; contact me before you do, so we can asist you
<Kletskous> Ruben Haan is Deruub Pastorelli in SL and I am Catharina Jacobus
<sabdfl> i can't promise i'll be there because I can't take too much time to debug any issues that arise
<sabdfl> Catharine - email addy?
<Kletskous> please promis... :)
<Kletskous> my mail is cath@freelancenetwerk.nl
<sabdfl> ok, i had you as Bethlehem :-)
<Kletskous> yes that is me irl
<Kletskous> now everyone knows everything about me :)
<sabdfl> welcome to the club :-)
<popey> sabdfl: people in SL have alter-egos, and don't go by their real names. It's all very confusing :)
<sabdfl> [ACTION] sabdfl to try to get up and running in SL, and speak if it goes smoothly
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sabdfl to try to get up and running in SL, and speak if it goes smoothly
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<Kletskous> Linden might make an exception for sabdfl for going on his real name.. but not sure
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<Kletskous> ok great; thanks a lot and u too popey for the help
<RubenHaan> jep you can ask lindenlab
<mako> you're not *allowed* to use your real name?
<Kletskous> they have fixed last names..
<Kletskous> on opensim you can choose.. but we are not ready there yet to party
<sabdfl> i'll cross that bridge when i get to it
<highvoltage> eek, I can't remember under what e-mail I registered, I guess I'll just have to create a new profile
<sabdfl> if there's nothing else, can we wrap up?
<Kletskous> yes maybe easier to do that then highvoltage
<popey> nothing here
<Kletskous> our group's name is Ubuntu Linux - you can find it through search
<Kletskous> or contact me for an invitation
<Technoviking> nothinh here either
<sabdfl> ok, that's a wrap
<sabdfl> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:27.
<sabdfl> thanks all!
<mako> thanks everyone
<RubenHaan> thnx
<crimsun> digitalfiz: err, what?
<crimsun> digitalfiz: what's this about 64-bit pulseaudio/alsa horrible-ness?
<digitalfiz> well ive only noticed it with openal trying to use alsa through pulse
<crimsun> digitalfiz: on current lucid?
<crimsun> digitalfiz: because frankly, if it's on karmic, the proper approach is to ask for backports from lucid of alsa-plugins and openal-soft, and use PA from ppa:ubuntu-audio-dev.
<crimsun> same goes for libsd1.2.
<crimsun> libsdl1.2 *
<digitalfiz> its been every version of ubuntu up to karmic i havent used lucid yet. the way i fixed it was i just compiled a newer version of openal which has direct pulseaudio support. i think it was just in the way openal used alsa which made pulse act up
<crimsun> if you have further comments, feel free to catch me via e-mail (and/or to the ubuntu-audio-dev mailing list; see the team's LP page)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-07
 * Daviey wonders if he missed a memo.
<persia> Daviey: Summer time maybe?
<Omahn> Daviey: 3pm here I believe.
<Omahn> as in UK.
<Daviey> persia: Yep, my mistake..
<Daviey> Omahn: thanks.
<jiboumans> Daviey: all hail UTC :)
<Daviey> jiboumans: UTC is great, 50% of the year :)
<kirkland-mobile> when does the rest of the world switch to dst?
<Daviey> kirkland-mobile: It never ceases to amaze how wikipedia can provide more information than you ever thought possible, about a simple issue.
<kirkland-mobile> Daviey: : yeah, I will look it up later
<zul> morning
<zul> stupid farmers
<Daviey> zul: It's clearly afternoon.. :)
<zul> Daviey: yes in bizzaro world
<hggdh> moin
<kirkland-mobile> hi
<ttx> o/
<jiboumans> o/
<alexm> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<Daviey> o/
<smoser> \o
<jiboumans> afternoon folks
<jiboumans> or in bizzarro world, good morning
<Daviey> heh
<zul> hah
<zul> dem fighting words
<jiboumans> i'm having a call at the same time as this meeting, so ttx will be once again be your trusted leader
 * jiboumans passes the buck
<ttx> \o/
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:01. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> Agenda for today at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> Scribe is smoser
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> i was hoping my name was left off the scribe list
<ttx> smoser: nice try
<ttx> can't find any action from last week
<ttx> [TOPIC] Beta2 milestone release
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beta2 milestone release
<ttx> So Beta2 should be out tomorrow, server so far looking good
<ttx> No more beta2-targeted bugs to fix, which is good
<ttx> A few work items left for Beta2 @ http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
<ttx> mathiaz, kirkland, hggdh, ttx: please comment on feasibility of those last items by the end of the day
<mathiaz> ttx: I'll resume publishing the blog post today
<kirkland-mobile> okay
<ttx> server-lucid-apt-mirror-ec2: one work item left, blocked on IS delivery, no update that I know of, will have to be postponed
<ttx> kirkland: you have "Sign off on B2 candidate tests"
<ttx> kirkland: and " 	announce why kqemu "went away" in Ubuntu"
<kirkland-mobile> will do both today
<ttx> hggdh: you have "Perform tests on B2 candidate", is it under way ?
<ttx> jiboumans: no news from IS on the new EC2 mirrors ?
<jiboumans> ttx: not yet; sent a follow up to James Troup, but nothing yet
<hggdh> ttx: I have been unable so far, battling kernel oopses on my laptoip
<mathiaz> hggdh: you can use the hardware in the DC
<jiboumans> kirkland-mobile: clearly 'sign off' depends on 'perform tests' :)
<mathiaz> hggdh: I'm not using the UEC test rig for now
<ttx> hggdh: those B2 tests are about ruynning them on the DC testrig anyway
<hggdh> mathiaz: I will try it now, laptop stayed on all night without a oops
<ttx> hggdh: I suspect your laptop doesn't have to stay up for the duration of the tests ?
<ttx> hggdh: please coordinate with mathiaz/kirkland on that, those tests need to be run today (or never)
<kirkland-mobile> byobu/screen FTW
<hggdh> ttx: the problem I was having to whole day yesterday was for the laptop to stay on. period
<ttx> heh
<ttx> Last thing about betaÂ§2 we have to discuss is "Ramdisk vs. no-ramdisk for cloud images"
<ttx> smoser: please explain the new situation quickly
<smoser> well, we're hoping for no ramdisks for beta-2.  In all my tests (and ttx), the images boot successfully without ramdiks.
<smoser> yesterday i removed ramdisk from publishing of EC2 images (20100107), but failed to do so for UEC images.  20100107.1 should be out in 90 minutes or so with that change inside.
<ttx> So the idea is to have candidates up with "noramdisk", test the heck out of them
<ttx> on every single cloud you can put your hands on
<ttx> if the results are satisfying by the end of the day, we'll keep them, otherwise we'll revert
<ttx> (late in smoser's night)
<smoser> if you want to test with no ramdisk, just to make sure you don't hit the previous hang (bug 531494) you can do so easily with 'uec-publish-image --ramdisk=none'
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531494 in Ubuntu Lucid "cloud-init job sometimes not running in cloud images without ramdisk" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531494
<ttx> smoser: does that sound like a plan ?
<smoser> that sounds like a plan to me.
<ttx> comments ?
<smoser> so far it is infinitely more stable than it was in beta-1 without ramdisk.
<ttx> Basically we want to give noramdisk a last chance
<kirkland-mobile> just registering todays image will give no ramdisk?
<ttx> kirkland: no
<kirkland-mobile> or are there special instructions?
<ttx> the current one you have to use smoser's command (see #ubuntu-server)
<ttx> but new ones should nbe up in 90min
<smoser> kirkland-mobile, registering todays image 20100107 will register a ramdisk
<smoser> registering 20100107.1 will not (that is due in 90minutes)
<kirkland-mobile> ttx: thought it might be nice to have in the log here
<smoser> or, alternativley use '--ramdisk=none'
<smoser> on your uec-publish-tarball command line
<kirkland-mobile> smoser: right, thanks
<ttx> uec-publish-image --ramdisk=none image.tar.gz lucid-20100407-noramdisk amd64
<ttx> ok, next up
<kirkland-mobile> uec-publish-tarball is awesome, btw
<ttx> [TOPIC] RC/Final preparation
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC/Final preparation
<ttx> Release is at the end of the month
<ttx> Here are the priorties until then:
<ttx> 1/ Release-critical  bugs
<ttx> 2/ # Continued specs (eucalyptus-merging, uec-testing, puppet-ec2)
<ttx> 3/ Lucid targets of opportunity
<ttx> You can find a list of release-critical bugs and targets of opportunity at:
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> The RC bugs in that list take precedence over the spec work.
<ttx> Note that FinalFreeze is next week
<ttx> So that leaves little room for non-critical bugfixes :)
<ttx> Please pay special attention during triage days to catch release-critical issues
<ttx> We'll have a sudden influx of server lucid bugs after beta2
<ttx> we need to catch regressions and upgrade bugs early
<ttx> don't hesitate to subscribe me to those with a note, when you stumble on one
<jiboumans> +1 on that; we have our triage days set. don't miss them, don't prioritise over those
<ttx> Also we'll have to spend a common effort on openldap, we know there are a few issues around it, and mathiaz won't have the time to fix everything by himself
<ttx> so once beta2 is out we'll do some triage/upgrade-bugfix o that
<zul> whats wrong with openldap again?
<ttx> zul: go triage the openldap bugs and find out :P
<mathiaz> zul: we need to make sure that upgrade from hardy to lucid are working correctly
<mathiaz> zul: the sticky point is the conversion from slapd.conf cn=config
<ttx> Is everything clear on those priorities ? feel free to catch up with me or jib in case anything is unclear
<zul> clear
<ttx> let's make tyhis a stellar release, we enter the last run
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<ttx> hggdh: o/
<hggdh> no new from me, execpt that stress testing was fine until day before yesterday ;-)
<ttx> hggdh: ISO testcases look better now
<hggdh> thanks to you, BTW
<ttx> smoser, hggdh: the EC2 testcases still show "'multiple instances" and "single instance" rather than "multiple instances" and "userdata"
<smoser> oh? i'll get that fixed.
<mathiaz> ttx: are the iso test cases covered now?
<ttx> We should fix that before the next respin
<mathiaz> ttx: ie should set aside some time to run my iso testing scrips on the candidates?
<mathiaz> ttx: should *I* set
<ttx> mathiaz: I think we can achieve good coverage without you
<mathiaz> ttx: great! thanks
<hggdh> mathiaz: I have been running them on the rig
<Daviey> hggdh: Would there be merit in blogging for community How to QA'ing + Test cases, and the tracker info.
<ttx> Daviey: there would
<hggdh> Daviey: it is a good idea, this is the correct moment
<ttx> ara is usually blogging about that
<mathiaz> Daviey: I think ara made a call for testing already
<ttx> anything else for QA ?
<hggdh> not from me
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<ttx> hggdh: thanks !
<ttx> jjohansen: hi
<jjohansen> hi
<ttx> I don't think we have any issues open with kernel now, everything was fixed
<jjohansen> so I have Bug #532553 targeted for post beta2
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532553 in linux-ec2 "linux-image-2.6.32-302-ec2 is missing iptables module xt_recent" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532553
<jjohansen> and that is it atm
 * kirkland-mobile points hggdh at jjohansen about his kvm oopses
<jjohansen> ah, yeah kirkland-mobile would
<kirkland-mobile> :)
<jjohansen> yes I will be looking into kvm oops, and we will see what we can find
<mathiaz> jjohansen: when is kernel final freeze/upload?
<ttx> I think it's passed already
<jjohansen> next week
<jjohansen> it hits a couple days before everyone elses
<ttx> Ah you don't mean kernelfreeze
<jjohansen> no
<ttx> finalkernelfreeze ;)
<ttx> anything else for kernel ?
<smoser> jjohansen, kirkland-mobile is there a bug for kvm oops ?
<ttx> I think hggdg has one
<ttx> hggdh, even
<kirkland-mobile> smoser: yes, ask hggdh for it
 * kirkland-mobile can't look it up atm
<ttx> bug 556919
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 556919 in linux "running KVM almost always hard-freezes the host" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556919
<kirkland-mobile> I suspect that it's cpu model specific
<jjohansen> smoser: there are a couple Bug #444365, Bug #458201, Bug #556919
<hggdh> <sigh/>
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444365 in linux "BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference while stopping apparmor, kvm related?" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444365
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 458201 in linux "kernel stacktrace on volume detach in kvm guest" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/458201
<mathiaz> hggdh: while doing uec testing you may run into bug
<mathiaz> hggdh: bug 556833
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 556833 in eucalyptus "System fails to reboot after eucalyptus preseeded instlation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556833
<ttx> ok, moving on
<mathiaz> ttx: ^^ this is the fails to reboot
<mathiaz> bug
<ttx> mathiaz: was wondering if it wasn't the grub location preseeded value
<ttx> but had no time to look into it
<mathiaz> ttx: may be
<mathiaz> ttx: we can discuss it later
<ttx> since it seems not to be able to find grub .. and netbooting showed some swapping of /dev/sd[ab]
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<mathiaz> anything worth SRUing on this list?
<zul> nope
<ttx> nope
<ttx> mathiaz: sounds like an outdated list ?
<ttx> "fixed from 2010-03-20 to 2010-03-29"
<mathiaz> ttx: yes indeed
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.2010-04-05.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.2010-04-05.html
<mathiaz> ^^ this one is empty
<mathiaz> so I guess the script broke :/
<Daviey> Last modified: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 00:07:48 GMT
<mathiaz> There aren't any bugs nominated for the dapper,hardy,intrepid,jaunty,karmic
<mathiaz> That's all for the SRU process then
<ttx> cool
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to fix the fixedbugs script
<mathiaz> ttx: ^
<ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to fix the fixedbugs script
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to fix the fixedbugs script
<ttx> [TOPIC] Call for Maverick blueprints
<MootBot> New Topic:  Call for Maverick blueprints
 * mathiaz suggest improving MootBot to allow users to record actions for themselves
<ttx> So in a little more than one month we'll have UDS again !
<ttx> So it's time to start thinking about what you want to work on for the Maverick cycle
<ttx> And filing blueprints about those
<mathiaz> ttx: what's the naming scheme for the blueprint name?
<ttx> (That's mostly a community call, the Canonical server team will work on a wikipage before creating those)
<ttx> server-maverick-*
<ttx> and set Jos Boumans as the approver
<Daviey> ttx: w.u.c or w.c.com?
<mathiaz> Daviey: blueprint.lp.net
<Daviey> (no, reference to wikipage0
<mathiaz> Daviey: w.u.com - as usual
<ttx> Daviey: the brainstorm of what we want to do as a team will probably be on a private wiki, but we'll file the results just after
<mathiaz> Daviey: we don't write any specs in w.c.com
<ttx> on wiki.u.com and blueprint.lp.net
<Daviey> great.
<mathiaz> ttx: why use w.c.c?
<mathiaz> ttx: and not follow the blueprint.lp.net process?
<ttx> Daviey: we usually have plenty of ideas but reality bites us :)
<kirkland-mobile> desktop has theirs in w.u.c
<ttx> mathiaz: sync with jib, he set up the page
<mathiaz> ttx: ok
<Daviey> oh sure, if it's commercially related blueprints - keep them on the prvate wiki :)
<ttx> maybe I misread the link
 * ttx checks
<jiboumans> ttx: you did not
<jiboumans> i'm scheduling a brainstorm call next week
<jiboumans> the results will be published on w.u.c
<jiboumans> i requested the input to be on w.c.c
<mathiaz> jiboumans: why the input needs to be on w.c.c?
<jiboumans> Daviey: as you noted, some are commerical or have commercial implications
 * kirkland-mobile has to drop...later.
<Daviey> jiboumans: ok.
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ttx> Please shoot
<RoAkSoAx> Cluster Packages are getting into Debian. Those include ivoks changes... they should be hitting Debian unstable soon, though I'm not sure if they are going to do so in time for us to sync/merge
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: what's the state of the cluster stack in lucid then?
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: they are still in universe ?
<mathiaz> I also had a suggestion: drop the dovecot-postfix package
<mathiaz> for lucid
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, ttx cluster-agents, cluster-glue, heartbeat are still in universe
<ttx> mathiaz: why?
<RoAkSoAx> due to library split need. This is done already in debian
<mathiaz> the implementation is not so great (using a different configuration file) to the poin that upstream filed a bug to modify dovecot to check for our alternate configuration file
<RoAkSoAx> but as I just checked, they have been uploaded to unstable yesterday :).
<Daviey> mathiaz: Is dovecot-postfix broken?  It seems nuts to drop it otherwise?
<mathiaz> a lot of user were complaning that changing dovecot.conf doesn't work
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: what's the current state of the cluster stack in lucid ?
<mathiaz> which makes sense as dovecot-postfix is using dovecot-postfix.conf instead
<ttx> ivoks, ScottK: any opinion on what mathiaz proposes ?
<mathiaz> so now Ubuntu is known in the upstream community as: are you using Ubuntu? if so change dovecot-postfix.conf instead of dovecot.conf
<RoAkSoAx> ttx, Well currently, 3 packages are still in universe (cluster-glue, cluster-agents, heartbeat). cluster-glue needed library split, which is done in debian
<mathiaz> bug 511295
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 511295 in dovecot "dovecot -n silently reports wrong configuration when using dovecot-postfix" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/511295
<mathiaz> is the bug from upstream
<RoAkSoAx> so we would need to sync them
<RoAkSoAx> cluster-agents, and heartbeat were waiting for this library split to be able to upload them to main
<Daviey> considering dovecot-postfix was a target for jaunty.. it seems a shame to throw away the work.
<mathiaz> LTS being maintainedfor 5 years I don't think it would be a good idea to provide a package that uses a *different* configuration file for 5 years
<ttx> mathiaz: yes, an email thread about that might be a good idea
<mathiaz> Daviey: well - the idea is good - the implementation proved to be not so great
<ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to propose removal of dovecot-postfix on MLs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to propose removal of dovecot-postfix on MLs
<mathiaz> we tried - it's an LTS - let's back it off and give another try
<RoAkSoAx> ttx, I'll review debian packages, to file sync bugs and apply proper Ubuntu changes if any
<mathiaz> another point: zul how is mysql-server-5.0 removal going?
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: is it currently broken ? As in, main packages depending on universe packages ? Critical bugs ?
<zul> mathiaz: should be ready to go after the freeze is lifted
<RoAkSoAx> ttx, it is not broken. Is up an running without library split and latest fixes
<mathiaz> and third point
<mathiaz> another proposal: drop the ubuntu-serverguide from the archive
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: ok. Because it's quite late for non-critical fixes
<ttx> mathiaz: rationale ?
<mathiaz> sommer: hadn't had time to keep it up-to-date
<ttx> mathiaz: we reviewed it recently, it's not that bad
<mathiaz> and not having an up-to-date server guide is confusing at least for our users
<Daviey> ttx: Does ANYBODY use it?
<sommer> mathiaz: I did find time to get most of the major updates in
<mathiaz> (see the ldap section for karmic)
<ttx> I think the ldap section is the notable exception, rather than the rule
<sommer> mathiaz: I'm working on an SRU for that
<ttx> and Iwouldn't throw away the baby with the bath water
<sommer> mathiaz: and the Lucid instrustions work for karmic
<RoAkSoAx> ttx, well the packages that just hit Debian have many fixes, both in upstream and packaging. On the other hand, MIR for cluster-glue was rejected due to library split, which is now in Debian. Cluster-agents, Heartbeat MIRs were rejected too due to its dependency with cluster-glue.
<mathiaz> ttx: may be - if so then my  proposal has a *lot* less weight
<zul> ttx: i have to update landscape-client next week as well
<mathiaz> I still think that the server guide is a great peace of work
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: no time now, but we'll continue this discussion
<mathiaz> and we should keep maintaining it
<mathiaz> I'm just not sure if it should made available as a package
<ttx> [ACTION] ttx to follow up with ivoks/RoaKSoax on cluster stack state
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to follow up with ivoks/RoaKSoax on cluster stack state
<mathiaz> it may be worth discussing it at the next UDS
<ttx> mathiaz: sounds late to change direction on that
<mathiaz> the content is great - I'm not convinced about the form
<ttx> mathiaz: but agreed for future release
<sommer> mathiaz: I agree, and should have more time this cycle to do update... day job had a lot of projects coming to a close during the lucid cycle :-)
<mathiaz> ttx: right - for lucid dropping the package from the archive seems the only solution for now
<mathiaz> ttx: but if the guide is up-to-date
<mathiaz> ttx: then it may be worth keeping in the archive
<ttx> mathiaz: I think it's good enough.
<mathiaz> ttx: ok
<ttx> and if not bugs should be filed against it :)
<ttx> ok, let's wrap up
<Daviey> On another note, are people keeping an eye out to sponsor other peoples work into the archive
<ttx> Next meeting, next week, same UTC time, same place
<ttx> Daviey: we should all have at least 1 hour of sponsoring time  per week
<mathiaz> I'm going through the sponsoring queue every Thursday
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<ttx> ok, closing the meeting now, feel free to continue discussion on #ubuntu-server
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:58.
<Daviey> I was just looking over that
<mathiaz> ^^ for packages listed here under the -server seed
<Daviey> super.
 * mvo looks around
<ev> hi
 * tremolux waves at mvo
<cjwatson> hi
<cjwatson> Keybuk: poke chair
<mvo> hi
 * slangasek waves
<Keybuk> cjwatson: two seconds ;)
<Keybuk> dealing with last minute Activity Report flurry
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:06. The chair is Keybuk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Keybuk> [LINK] Meeting Agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0407
<MootBot> LINK received:  Meeting Agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0407
<Keybuk> slangasek: AR nag
<Keybuk> doko__, lool: ping and AR nag
<Keybuk> james_w: ping
<cjwatson> Keybuk: last-minute> *cough*
<cjwatson> hey, really creative fiction takes time
<james_w> hello
<doko__> Keybuk: meeting pong
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<Keybuk> Order: mvo, slangasek, doko, cjwatson, tremolux, ev, lool, james_w, Keybuk
<mvo> done: software-center bugfixing, update-manager fixes, upgrade reports review
<mvo> todo: focus on upgrade issues and remaining sotware-center bugs
<mvo> (done)
<slangasek> done: plymouth bug fixing, beta-2 warm-up, got meself a script to batch-load the AMI #s onto the ISO tracker so I don't have to add 12 of them one at a time
<slangasek> todo: beta-2 release :)
<slangasek> (done)
<doko__> openjdk & sun-java security builds, test failure debugging on the buildbots,  icedtea plugin debugging, upgrade fixes for ca-certificates-java, python-central, trying to start the archive rebuild, gcc-4.5 packages updated (branched!)
<doko__> (done)
<cjwatson> done: Launchpad patch to restrict bug transitions away from "Won't Fix"; display init script output by default on server boot; kicked off foundations planning for 10.10; yet more partitioner bug-fixing
<cjwatson> todo: adjust partitioner free space handling following alignment changes; per-package exceptions to package set administration; d-i translation sync; possibly try to land ubiquity-common package split
<cjwatson> p.s. Launchpad ec2 testing is not actually *that* hard to set up and lets you do LP work without having to do the heroic dependency setup
<cjwatson> (done)
<tremolux> Continued software-center bug fixes and triage.
<tremolux> Currently working on two bugs related to channel updating (LP: #542892, LP: #556995).
<tremolux> (done)
<ev> done: lots of bug fixing
<ev> in progress / todo: melting my brain in ubiquity's page history code, fixing whatever bugs arise from CD testing
<ev> (done)
<Keybuk> lool appears to be absent, james_w: you're up
<james_w> Done: lots of improvements to launchpad code imports, and especially their API, sponsoring.
<james_w> In progress/todo: more sponsoring, using the API once I have it all landed to stretch the code imports system.
<james_w> (done)
<Keybuk> done: nice break over easter, got plymouth & mountall fixed up last week
<Keybuk> todo: catching up with my bugs folder
<Keybuk> --
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
<Keybuk> I don't see any since 03-10
<Keybuk> if nobody thinks they have any outstanding items, let's move on :)
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<Keybuk> slangasek: ?
<slangasek> well, /I/ don't have any outstanding feature freeze exceptions :)
<Keybuk> do you have a list of anyone else's? :)
<slangasek> no
<Keybuk> anyone else want a freeze exception today? :p
<mvo> all mine got rejectedâ¦
<doko__> Keybuk: hmm, do these have to be discussed in the meetings?
<Keybuk> if you want
<Keybuk> let's move on
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Milestoned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Milestoned bugs
<Keybuk> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone:list=21447
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone:list=21447
 * doko__ is getting the rejections on private channels by slangasek ...
<Keybuk> again, not really sure what we're supposed to do here ;)
<slangasek> notice that there are bugs, then fix them! :)
<cjwatson> slangasek: is there any particular reason to respin at this point?  if not, I was planning on moving the installer bugs there to final
<slangasek> http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/task-assignments/ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html shows precious little for the foundations team
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/task-assignments/ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html shows precious little for the foundations team
<cjwatson> I haven't updated that page this week, careful
<slangasek> oh
<cjwatson> (sorry)
<cjwatson> we've been hammering away on the beta-2 installer bugs, and recently got a new contributor to the KDE frontend who unexpectedly showed up with a batch of fixes, so that helped
<slangasek> well, the official list doesn't show much either :)
<slangasek> maybe we could pitch in on the outstanding arm porting bugs that keep being carried over between milestones?
<slangasek> (though I tried to start on one and found the description of what needed doing so vague that I gave up for the time being)
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2 may be helpful
<slangasek> cjwatson: particular reason to respin> I haven't seen one so far, but I also haven't had a chance to absorb the latest ISO tracker status since waking up
<cjwatson> I looked through the Ubuntu bugs and nothing made me scream.  I haven't looked at the others
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> I'm going to skip targeted bugs and sponsorship ;)
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Good News
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
<Keybuk> slangasek: the fact I'm not working until 4am every day this week, compared to Î²1, seems to be good news :p
<slangasek> I would say so :)
<cjwatson> I did a pass through queued-up packageset permissions and synced up Launchpad with a bunch of them, which should cause slightly fewer people to scream at me
<slangasek> Keybuk: any insight into our frequently-duped plymouth sigsegv?
<cjwatson> ftp-master.d.o is back \o/
<slangasek> I'm not sick this week \o/
<Keybuk> slangasek: I haven't seen anything about that
<doko__> populate-archive for the rebuild test is still running on cocopluum
<slangasek> Keybuk: bug #533745
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 533745 in sitecmd "link() - move $params to 3rd parameter" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/533745
<cjwatson> doko__: fast tools are great, aren't they
<slangasek> hmm
<slangasek> Keybuk: bug #553745
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553745 in plymouth "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553745
 * slangasek blinks himself a little more awake
<Keybuk> that sounds like a kind of "dangling handler pointer" bug
<Keybuk> that's going to be impossible to debug, unless someone who can gdb through plymouth can replicate it
<slangasek> indeed
<Keybuk> ok, we're well into AOB now
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] AOB?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB?
<cjwatson> mumble seems pretty nice; it would be good if more people hung out in the foundations team room there
 * ev would love to, but is currently blocked on IS
<cjwatson> you can basically just leave it open and push-to-talk when you feel like it
<slangasek> the feedback between my built-in mic and speakers is bad enough that I'm using my headset, which means I'm only using it when my headset is plugged in
<cjwatson> bug 515023 is nasty; while there's USB-protocol-level investigation going on upstream, I'm wondering if it would make sense to disable that udev rule on devices that seem to be affected
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 515023 in hdparm "ATA pass-through commands preventing external HDD to be mounted" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/515023
<cjwatson> this seems to be USB 3.0 and Firewire so far; there's an ambiguous comment about USB 2.0
<cjwatson> the rule is, IIRC, not normally critical to correct system operation
<cjwatson> ... ok, maybe I'll go over it when at Scott's tomorrow
<Keybuk> yeah
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Chair for next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chair for next meeting
<Keybuk> ...don't all volunteer at once :p
<ev> I'll do it
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:42.
<mvo> thanks
<ev> thanks!
<tremolux> good day all!
<slangasek> thanks!
 * ara waves
 * bdmurray waves
<pedro_> hey hey
 * bladernr \0o/
<bdmurray> bladernr: what happened to you? ;-)
<ara> bladernr and his twin wave
<bladernr> the local military base sprays too many chemtrails
<bladernr> I grew a second head
 * fader_ waves.
<ameetp> o/
<sbeattie> hey
<fader_> marjo is on holiday today so he has asked me to start the meeting
<schwuk> hi
<fader_> So...
<fader_> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is fader_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<fader_> Agenda:
<fader_>     * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<fader_>     * Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<fader_> [TOPIC]  SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<MootBot> New Topic:   SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past week (since 2010-03-31):
<sbeattie> * karmic: 7 new packages in -proposed (keepalived, linux-fsl-imx51, obexd, sun-java6, tzdata, usbmount, vsftpd)
<sbeattie>       and 2 packages pushed to -updates (libdvdnav, tzdata)
<sbeattie> * jaunty: 2 new packages in -proposed (sun-java6, tzdata)
<sbeattie>       and 2 package pushed to -updates (tzdata, xfce4-weather-plugin)
<sbeattie> * intrepid: 1 new package in -proposed (tzdata)
<sbeattie>         and 1 package pushed to -updates (tzdata)
<sbeattie> * hardy: 5 new packages in -proposed (debian-installer, exim4, pyclutter, sun-java6, tzdata)
<sbeattie>      and 2 packages pushed to -updates (tzdata, xfce4-weather-plugin)
<sbeattie> * dapper: 1 new package in -proposed (langpack-locales)
<sbeattie>       and 7 packages pushed to -updates (clamav, dansguardian, gurlchecker, havp, klamav, langpack-locales, python-clamav)
<sbeattie> Thanks to Artur Rona, Paul Elliott, Andres Rodriguez, Tomasz Melcer, Lollerke, Oreste Salerno, Soos Gergely, and P3P for testing SRUs this week.
<sbeattie> That's all I've got on the SRU front this week.
<RoAkSoAx> sbeattie, I've tested usbmount and keepalived already, left feedback on bug reports :)
<sbeattie> RoAkSoAx: ah, yeah, saw your feedback, thanks for doing that!
<RoAkSoAx> sbeattie, glad to help :)
<fader_> Any other SRU-related questions/comments?
 * sbeattie needs to do some hackery to translate from bug report email address to irc nick.
<fader_> Okay, thanks sbeattie!
<fader_> [TOPIC]  Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<MootBot> New Topic:   Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<fader_> pedro_: Hi
<pedro_> hey fader_
<pedro_> so On Thursday 01  we had a bug day based on Nautilus:
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100401
<pedro_> ~50 bugs were triaged that day, Thanks a lot to our hug days heroes: hernejj, kamusin, charlie-tca, qense, nalimilan and dgtombs
<bdmurray> sbeattie: that should be possible using launchpadlib I think
<pedro_> Tomorrow we're having a bug day for Rhythmbox https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100408
<pedro_> There's plenty of bugs to be triaged so if you have some time and want to learn a bit more about bug triage join us, we'll be glad to help you to start
<pedro_> and again if you have an idea or want us to organize a bug day for clean up a package on Ubuntu , just let us know and add that idea to the planning page
<pedro_> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Planning
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Planning
<pedro_> that's all from here Mr. fader_
<fader_> :)
<fader_> Any questions or comments about bug days?
<fader_> Thanks pedro_!
<fader_> [TOPIC] AOB?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB?
<fader_> Any other business?
<ara> fader_, blueprints for UDS!
<fader_> It looks like the agenda didn't get updated for today, so if there are any topics that should be discussed but didn't make it onto the agenda, feel free to speak up about them
<fader_> ara: Indeed!  Do you have any info about due dates, etc.?
<ara> fader_, no, but there are people already proposing topics for the qa track
<ara> people coming to uds can start proposing topics at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-m
<ara> as usual, please, name blueprints with qa-m-whatever, so we can find them easily
<fader_> Thanks ara!
<fader_> Anything else?
<fader_> Doesn't seem to be :)
<hggdh> heh
<fader_> Thanks everyone!
<fader_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:12.
<pedro_> thanks
<highvoltage> hi!
<bencrisford> hello!
<highvoltage> I think we can keep this fairly short,
<highvoltage> technical from my side:
<highvoltage>  * edubuntu-artwork is currently not installed on latest build, should be fine on next build
 * stgraber waves in the right channel this time ;)
<stgraber> uploaded the fix for that one and poked slangasek about it, hope to have a rebuild quite soon
<highvoltage>  * bug 557519 is quite serious since it makes ltsp uninstallable, I'm not sure how to troubleshoot it further so any help is welcome there
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557519 in ldm "ldm-server hangs on installation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557519
<highvoltage> stgraber: great, thanks
<alkisg> Hi all
<bencrisford> alkisg: hi
<highvoltage>  * we still don't have the new edubuntu logo or ubuntu font, so our artwork is still rather incomplete
<highvoltage> besides all of that, we're more or less ok from what I can see from a technical perspective.
<highvoltage> anyhing else worth noting from a technical perspective?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: you added some agenda items,
 * highvoltage gives bencrisford the mic
<bencrisford> highvoltage: indeed i did :)
<bencrisford> i added some points about the advocacy team
<bencrisford> last week we established that were gonna need to find some contributors somewhere
<bencrisford> so basically we need to sort out where and how..
<bencrisford> after that
<bencrisford> once the release is out of the way
<bencrisford> i think the advocacy team needs some attention
<bencrisford> and then we could maybe find a way of sharing marketing material amongst contributors
<bencrisford> maybe a lp branch?
<highvoltage> yes that's probably the best way to do it
<bencrisford> i dont know about distribution though
 * Lns waves
<bencrisford> does anyone have any ideas how we can attract contributors to the project?
<bencrisford> hi Lns :)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: here's an old post from Mark Shuttleworth to the Schooltool list: http://lists.schooltool.org/pipermail/schooltool/2004-August/000531.html
<bencrisford> the bug day i think probably helped show people where we are
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I like referring to that message because he explains that school admin isn't very 'sexy', as in, it's not something that's very glamerous that attracts lots of volunteer developers
<alkisg> Lots of schools need little customizations, like remixes. If we made a web site where they could customize edubuntu (e.g. a ppa with metapackages which would be added in ubiquity) then we could attract some teams
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I think edubuntu is kind of similar, people find it a somewhat boring subject, and I think we need to find a way to make it more exciting
<bencrisford> highvoltage: i can definately see where you're coming from :)
<alkisg> From the user perspective, a dialog in ubiquity where it could select "i'm a greek school, add the greek ppa in my sources and install the greek metapackages" => this would attract teams, but I don't know if we want to handle that.
<Lns> You know what worked really well for me is school customization itself - simple things like a custom LDM theme that shows the name of their school. It helps provide a sense of ownership to the students AND staff.
<bencrisford> in my opinion though, edubuntu isnt a boring project at all.  we dont have to make it "seem" more exiting we just have to explain "why" its exciting
<Lns> They really liked little things like that
<highvoltage> alkisg: since recently, something similar is actually possible in ubiquity
<alkisg> highvoltage: really? haven't seen that...
<highvoltage> alkisg: it actually supports tasks, or at least, something very close to it, mythbuntu has a plugin that does it that we want to recycle for edubuntu in maverick
<highvoltage> alkisg: it could be changed to install some localisation meta-packages as well
<alkisg> Right, that would attract a lot of schools to make their own metapackages/tasks with all the stuff they need
<alkisg> ...and I suppose after selecting/using edubuntu, they'd also contribute to it
<highvoltage> alkisg: it's something that could be explored, some people are a bit sceptical about ppa's, and there are some support issues around it, but yes, something that can be explored
<bencrisford> i think we just need to let people know what difference they can make by contributing
<highvoltage> alkisg: another way to get more contributors is getting more people from other ubuntu teams involved
<highvoltage> woops, I aimed that at bencrisford
<bencrisford> lol
<alkisg> :)
<highvoltage> we include a large number of kde packages, so we could perhaps get some more kde folks involved
<bencrisford> i think edubuntu is one of the most important projects in the ubuntu scope :)
<bencrisford> JackLD who is sometimes around on #edubuntu uses it to educate aids orphans
<Lns> Honestly, and I mean this with no offense or anything like that, but do you guys think that just by telling people that we're out there is going to make them want to contribute their time and energy?
<bencrisford> Lns: we tell them, and we convince them :)
<Lns> I mean, some people sure.. but we need to make people want to contribute because THEY are gonna get something back :)
<Lns> not just for the sake of contributing..
<bencrisford> Lns: i think most ubuntu people are happy if other people are getting something back as well
<Lns> well of course
<highvoltage> Lns: right, we've also run into problems before where someone purely wanted to contribute because they thought it would get them a job at Canonical
<bencrisford> its like people give to charity
<highvoltage> Lns: I think it's ideal when someone can contribute and scratch their own itch
<alkisg> I think that the people that have the technical expertise to contribute, already know what they need to know about edubuntu
<Lns> highvoltage, right...everyone has a motivation to contribute, and very few are just because they want to for others
<bencrisford> alkisg: its not all about technical expertise, we need triagers and artists too
<highvoltage> Lns: but in terms of getting something back, I think it should be clear that it's a community and volunteer project and that with volunteering there usually comes some degree of selflessness
<Lns> Take me for example, I do this for a living. I love contributing to the project and I will continue to do so, but I'm getting paid from schools to do it as well, so it's in MY best interest to help the community so we can ALL have better tools to work with
<highvoltage> Lns: indeed, more people in your position would be great
<bencrisford> Lns: if you got a new job, or retired im sure you would continue contributing if you could
<bencrisford> so.. :/
<Lns> highvoltage, exactly. I love helping everyone else with whatever I can, but if I was a construction worker I wouldn't be coming home and contributing to edubuntu in my own time ;)
<Lns> well I would, but not nearly as much
<Lns> not that i do a whole hellofalot right now ;) but I do whatever I can and I try to stay as active as possible
<Lns> It's a prerequisite that someone wants to contribute to a community if they're going to do so. But there has to be something else there, something tangible that they get from it
 * bencrisford is wondering why we have gone from talking about advocacy, to Lns becoming a construction worker :P:P:P
<highvoltage> Lns: can you provide an example?
<Lns> if we really want to get some quality contributors devoting a lot of time to the project
<Lns> highvoltage, example of?
<alkisg> (that's why I was saying about the ppa thing, they'd get an ubiquity dialog == their own remix in return)
<highvoltage> Lns: something tangible that someone would expect
<Lns> highvoltage, oh. Well, let's say a new GUI tool to manage workstations such as sch-scripts that alkisg is working on.
<Lns> You work on a project because it helps you do a better job
<highvoltage> Lns: yes, that's what I'd call a scratch-your-own-itch kind of contribution
<Lns> and giving it away to everyone else in a similar situation is so awesome because then THEY don't have to reinvent the wheel, and they can contribute updates and stuff to it. It's so awesome to see that.
<bencrisford> none of my ubuntu work does that, but it makes me feel good.  the qcad menu bug im working on atm, i dont care about, i dont use qcad.  but i know that if i fix it, loads of people in a few weeks are gonna download lucid and be able to click "qcad"
<bencrisford> it doesnt bother me if no-one thinks of me staying up late wondering why fixing the .desktop file doesnt sort it
<highvoltage> We should certainly put together some plans around this, it's great that you're bringing this up bencrisford, because we haven't given enough attention to it
<highvoltage> something to think about for when we start the new release cycle
<Lns> bencrisford, right - that's indirect because you know more people will download it and more people will become involved that use qcad
<highvoltage> Any other items for this meeting?
<Lns> did i miss the whole meeting? :(
<bencrisford> Lns: its been a short one
<Lns> ah
<highvoltage> Lns: all of the technical part
<bencrisford> just some technical stuff and bugs
<highvoltage> but yes, purposely keeping it short! :)
<Lns> oh ok i won't bring anything up then! =p
<bencrisford> doesnt bother me, im missing waterloo road :P
<highvoltage> Lns: heh, you can if you want to, but if it needs lots of discussions and isn't urgent we can do it at the next one instead :)
<Lns> it's fine i'll bring it up in #edubuntu
<highvoltage> ok that's it for this meeting then, thanks everyone
<highvoltage> *bong*
<alkisg> Thank you all
<bencrisford> see you all back on #edubuntu :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-08
<ZachK_> are there any of the membership board members here from the EMEA board?
<persia> What'S the specific question?  Maybe someone else can also help.
<ZachK_> well I needed to talk to one of them...somewhat of a personal matter....
<ZachK_> Something that was requested of me to do and I've done it...wanted to report it to them....
<persia> I can't precisely speak for EMEA practices, but for most of that class of thing for AsiaOceania, we encourage prospective applicants to update their wiki pages to reflect things to match the requests (usually by example of stuff that meets the request, rather than explicitly), and then reapply.
<ZachK_> ok nevermind..it's ok
<persia> Or maybe one of them is idling and will comment after the evening meal :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-09
 * randa-afk is away: Gone away for now
 * randa_ is back.
 * slangasek waves
<czajkowski> slangasek: happy it's friday :)
<ScottK> Right.  It's about that time.
<slangasek> hmm, is it?  wonder where Thursday went...
<ScottK> No idea.  I was up until 2:30 local do data analysis on a $WORK project and then back up before 8.
 * ScottK recalls he needs more coffee.
<slangasek> I have you beat, it's still not 8 here ;)
<pitti> o/
 * slangasek waves
 * asac waves
 * marjo waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> o/
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-04-09
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-04-09
<slangasek> [TOPIC] actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  actions from previous meetings
<slangasek>   * rickspencer to ask designers about new Edubuntu logo
<slangasek>   * slangasek, asac to discuss omap plans for 10.04 (DONE, discussed with davidm)
<slangasek>   * doko to grep the archive for codecs.open in python code, to find other packages broken by http://bugs.python.org/issue691291
<slangasek>   * ScottK, slangasek to review python sync/merge candidates (INPROGRESS)
<asac> slangasek: from what i understood you discussed high level bits on omap with david ... more detailed bits are now in RC bug section.
<slangasek>   * slangasek to document bug #528155 for beta2 errata (DONE)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528155 in linux "needs a breaks: clause for lvm2 versions in hardy" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528155
<slangasek>   * rickspencer3 to figure out what package needs changed for bug #357673 (DONE)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 357673 in linux "No notification when sliding audio volume, muting volume on ThinkPad X23, X24, X31, X32, X41, X60, T22, T40, T42, T60, R50e, R51, R52" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/357673
<asac> ack
<slangasek> pitti: no rickspencer?
<pitti> he's on vacation today
<slangasek> pitti: ok
<slangasek> asac: right; my immediate concern was "what are the deliverables and the support expectations", which hadn't been discussed up until now, but I have those answers now
<pitti> slangasek: anyway, I looked at the bug, too, and triaged it
<slangasek> doko confirmed to me that codecs.open is on his todo list, but that he was waiting for IS
<slangasek> doko: ^^ what is it you needed installed on people.c.c to do this grep?  is there an RT ticket I can +1? :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<marjo> slangasek: i have a few items today
<marjo> * Hardware testing
<marjo> Automated Tests
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Netbooks:
<marjo>    passed:   13 (93%) failed:    0 ( 0%) untested:  1 ( 7%)
<marjo> Laptops:
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo>    passed:   44 (94%) failed:    0 ( 0%) untested:  3 ( 6%)
<marjo> Servers:
<marjo>    passed:   65 (94%) failed:    0 ( 0%) untested:  4 ( 6%)
<marjo> Desktops:
<marjo>    passed:   12 (100%) failed:    0 (  0%) untested:  0 (  0%)
<marjo> Manual Tests
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/milestones/lucid/beta1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/milestones/lucid/beta1.html
<marjo> Passed: 19 (31%) Failed: 12 (20%)  Untested: 30 (49%)
<ttx> marjo: beta1.html ?
<slangasek> those are stale test results though, yes?
<slangasek> (the beta1)
<marjo> why stale?
<fader_> slangasek: alexmoldovan has been plowing through those since beta 1 came out, but he is only available in the lab 3 days per week
<marjo> slangasek: oh yes, because we had already started those
<doko> slangasek: it is installed, the ticket is closed
<fader_> slangasek: per the conversation we had at alpha 3, you asked that we stick with one image rather than test the daily builds
<slangasek> marjo: stale because it says "beta1", and we would want confirmation with beta2
<marjo> slangasek: understood
<slangasek> fader_: how does "beta1" differ from "current", then?
<fader_> slangasek: Not sure I understand... these are manual tests executed on the hardware on the beta 1 image rather than the current
<slangasek> ah, right
<fader_> At alpha 3 time we were doing the daily images for each day, but you had asked that we stick to one consistent image
<marjo> Lucid Beta 2 Test Report
<marjo> 9th April 2010
<marjo> = Summary =
<marjo> == Test Coverage ==
<marjo> Image Coverage: 100%
<marjo> Mandatory Testcase Coverage: 207/207 = 100.00
<marjo> Optional Testcase Coverage: 9/18 = 50.00
<marjo> === Test Failure Analysis ===
<marjo> 25 Test Failures
<marjo> Failure Rate 25/216 = 11.57
<marjo> == Serious bugs found in ISO testing status ==
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~marjomercado/isotestingbugs.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~marjomercado/isotestingbugs.html
<marjo> thx to everyone who helped us achieve such nice test coverage on beta 2!
<slangasek> fader_: yes, because we were getting test failures due to known transient problems in the dailies; now we seem to be having the opposite problem, in that half these failures are annotated as known-fixed in newer builds :)
<slangasek> anyway, assuming these will be re-tested soon with beta2, that's ok
<fader_> slangasek: Yeah, the majority of the bugs we found are fixed in the dailies at this point.  We are figuring this out and trying to hit a happy medium... it's all new process :)
<fader_> (and alexmoldovan has been awesome about testing and re-testing on dailies :) )
<marjo> == Bugs summary ==
<marjo> === Summary of Unfixed Issues ===
<marjo> 60 bugs unfixed
<marjo> Critical - 1
<marjo> High - 14
<marjo> Medium - 7
<marjo> Low - 3
<marjo> Undecided - 35
<marjo> === Summary of Fixed Issues ===
<marjo> 12 bugs fixed
<marjo> High - 7
<marjo> Medium - 1
<marjo> Undecided - 4
<slangasek> marjo: I'm concerned about the low "optional testcase" coverage - from my end, the intent of optional testcases is to identify tests we need to make sure are run against *some* image as part of a release, but don't need to be run for *every* image where they apply
<marjo> slangasek: understood; as you know priority is always to get 100% on mandatory, then go for optional
<slangasek> is there a list of the optional testcases that weren't covered, and does the QA team have time to follow those through this week so we cover our blind spots?
<slangasek> this week->next week
<marjo> but will work with testing team to see how to get higher coverage on all
<marjo> slangasek: yes, will do retrospective
<slangasek> I don't mean retrospective, I mean that those missing test cases should still get tested before RC is upon us
<marjo> slangasek: ok, i misunderstood
<marjo> yes, will see what can be done
<slangasek> [ACTION] marjo to make sure the outstanding optional testcases for beta2 get tested this week
<MootBot> ACTION received:  marjo to make sure the outstanding optional testcases for beta2 get tested this week
<marjo> Lucid Quality Status Report
<marjo> 20 days left and 315 bug tasks to fix.
<marjo> Barring no new work we need to fix 16 bug tasks a day now.
<marjo> The focus of bug fixing should be on the following tasks:
<marjo>         The 6 Critical bug tasks.
<marjo>         The 30 bug tasks that might cause a regression in Lucid.
<marjo>         The 113 High bug tasks.
<marjo> The Canonical Desktop Team needs to deal with 18 bug tasks.
<marjo> Martin Pitt is the most overtasked with 9 bug tasks.
<marjo> Martin Pitt is rockin' with 76 bug tasks fixed!
<marjo> Yesterday's hero was Michael Vogt with 4 bug tasks fixed!
<slangasek> not so bad
<marjo> Spec Status
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-platform-qa-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
<marjo> All completed except:
<marjo> Identify and implement improvements for finding bugs that affect hardware
<marjo> 1. Write up a nice README to document existing HWDB scripts we have, what they do, and how to use them: TODO
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-platform-qa-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
<marjo> 2. Send an email to the platform team ml for anyone who may be interested: TODO
<marjo> Will retarget to end of release.
<pitti> hm, given that the "need to fix #n bugs per day" keeps rising, we should perhaps take off some and move them to SRUs
<pitti> we won't be able to keep up at this pace
<marjo> slangasek:yes, must keep the focus up
<slangasek> there are a number of bugs currently milestoned for final that I'm sure are not going to make it; we need to be explicitly deferring some of those and focusing on the others
<slangasek> in particular, the current kernel bug load is completely unrealistic
<marjo> slangasek: agree
<marjo> slangasek: but as you know, jfo and team have been quite busy resolving bugs
<pitti> marjo: hm, I have 9 RC bug tasks assigned? I'm not aware of that..
<slangasek> pitti: the "bugs per day" was actually stable all last week; then we had Easter + freeze :)
<pitti> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~pitti/+assignedbugs?orderby=status has 4 lucid-targetted tasks..
<marjo> pitti: will double check & modify report
<pitti> marjo: those are lucid-targetted bugs only? or RC bugs? (lucid and high/critical)?
<marjo> pitti: yes, lucid only
<pitti> marjo: I'm just curious what these numbers refer to
<pitti> marjo: ah, thanks
<marjo> pitti:otherwise, too much noise
<pitti> marjo: LP helpfully duplicates lucid-targetted bugs in lists ..
<marjo> need to focus on lucid
<ttx> pitti: shouldn't RC be "lucid and targeted to ubuntu-10.04" ?
<pitti> ttx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RCBugTargetting says targetting and >= high
<ttx> pitti: ok thx
<pitti> but targetting the ones to ubuntu-10.04 which we want to fix by final makes sense, too
<slangasek> if you intend to fix a bug for 10.04 final, please make sure the milestone is set too
<marjo> slangasek: that's all from QA team
<pitti> ttx: the un-milestoned ones automatically become SRU targets
<slangasek> marjo: right, thanks!
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> ttx: hi
<ttx> hey
<ttx> Updated status @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> 3 lucid bugs targeted to ubuntu-10.04:
<ttx> bug 551544
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 551544 in puppet "puppet in lucid does not support upstart status " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/551544
<ttx> bug 556343
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 556343 in bind9 "upgrade error on 8.04 -> 10.04 " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556343
<ttx> bug 556996
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 556996 in samba "winbind pam-config potentially breaks stacking with modules of lower priority in common-passwd" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556996
<ttx> (just fixed)
<ttx> all assigned and being worked on
<ttx> See report for the other lucid-targeted bugs, most of them have now been assigned
<ttx> We expect a surge in bug reports, as server users usually don't test before the last beta
<ttx> so the list is expected to change
<slangasek> ttx: bug #551544> possibly simpler to just get this fixed in upstart for release; can you make sure mathiaz talks with Keybuk about this?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 551544 in puppet "puppet in lucid does not support upstart status " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/551544
<slangasek> (bug #552786 is the corresponding upstart bug)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 552786 in upstart "initctl: lacks proper exit codes" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/552786
<ttx> slangasek: yes
<ttx> We have one team member assigned to triage of new server bugs every day, so that we don't lose the important RC one
<ttx> Other questions on the bugs side ?
<ttx> Moving on to Specs...
<ttx> Beta2 postmortem:
<ttx> Some wo'rk items were postponed:
<ttx> server-lucid-apt-mirror-ec2: 1 WI still blocked on IS delivery, but imminent
<ttx> server-lucid-puppet-uec-ec2-integration: testsuite enablement, documentation
<ttx> server-lucid-uec-testing: multinetwork testing automation still work in progress
<ttx> server-lucid-id-mgmt-reference-env: deferred (was Low priority)
<ttx> That leaves us with a few work items for final, mostly unaffected by FinalFreeze
<ttx> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.04.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.04.html
<ttx> ^ see above url for details
<ttx> Bugs affecting server in other teams:
<ttx> The only one I could find is one reported in ISO testing about RAID/ext3
<ttx> bug 557429
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557429 in mdadm "booting out of sync RAID1 array fails with ext3 (comes up as already in sync)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557429
<ttx> Other issues affecting release:
<ttx> Two lucid bugs would probably need FFes to get fixed: bug 392759 and bug 533029
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 392759 in apache2 "[FFE] apache2 DoS attack using slowloris" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392759
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 533029 in autofs5 "autofs5-ldap doesn't work immediately after bootup" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/533029
<ttx> Expect some noise from there if not already done
<ttx> That's all for us
<ttx> questions ?
<slangasek> ogasawara: bug #557429 is marked as a kernel bug; and it's a potential data loss bug *caused* by RAID1, so should be fixed for final if at all possible - what further triaging is needed there?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557429 in mdadm "booting out of sync RAID1 array fails with ext3 (comes up as already in sync)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557429
<ogasawara> slangasek: I'll take a look and get it into shape if needed
<slangasek> [ACTION] ogasawara to triage bug #557429 for final
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogasawara to triage bug #557429 for final
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> no other questions here, anyone else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> ttx: thanks
<slangasek> asac: hi
<asac> hi
<asac> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<asac> so webservice office took a bit, but we now have the copyright/trademark issues sorted for artwork
<asac> webservice email is in the archive too ... MIR is coming ...
<asac> two main things are now troubling us:
<asac> * omap kernel and initial enablement
<asac>  -> making progress, but we didnt get to flashing out all the user space issues in the image yet
<asac> * openoffice build regression
<asac>  -> really, sad, but ooo now fails to build after recent updates
<asac> we are currently investigating to find the cause for this
<asac> i made a omap section for rc bugs on the status page
<asac> so you get the issues we know about in one place
<asac> so besides kernel we expect to touch flash-kernel and partman-uboot to teach it omap
<asac> imx51 and dove images are in good shape though ... so no headaches on that front ;)
<slangasek> asac: I noticed the other day from http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/lucid_outdate.html that there's an armel-specific build failure in main that I thought was on the porting bug list but apparently isn't - libtunepimp?
<asac> yes, thats one of the 3? ftbfs we have on our list for this week
<asac> cant tell more about it. i dont think its thumb2 related -- otherwise it would have been on our list
<asac> also we will do a mass give back on universe one more time to pick up a few things that probably build now
<slangasek> when you say it's "on your list" - it's not on the release status list, and it's not targeted/milestoned for 10.04?
<slangasek> I'd like visibility into whatever list it's actually on, please :)
<asac> yes, that should get a bug
<asac> sorry
 * asac goes and files
<asac> ok done
<asac> 559338
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> anything else?
<asac> not from my side
<ogra> i'll need to touch some installer bits for omap next week (but they are covered as bugs)
<ogra> just to warn :)
<asac> ogra: more than those we have on the page?
<asac> ;)
<ogra> i hope not
<asac> ok
<ogra> but not having an image that gets to a full installation yet makes it hard to predict
<asac> right. i mentioned that above
<ogra> i might hit issues that arent on the list yet
<slangasek> asac: I saw plars had just retargeted bug #542662 to final; in a previous meeting I got the impression that this was not critical-path for omap, is that correct?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 542662 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] x-loader for omap needs to be packaged to build beagleboard images" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/542662
<ogra> drop it please
<asac> slangasek: yes. we are ok to not have that
<slangasek> ok
 * asac does that
<ogra> we want it in the archive but we dont use it in 10.04
<asac> done
<ogra> it just enables users of such HW to reflash their nand with a package from us
<asac> ack. ok. any other questions?
<slangasek> asac: last question, what needs to happen to get these thumb2 porting bugs sorted?  Is there anything people outside Mobile can do to help?  The bug descriptions are all very brief and the page they link to doesn't provide much more information, so I wasn't able to get any traction on the one I looked at
<asac> slangasek: hmmm
<asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2PackageReviewList has quite detailed info
<asac> also
<asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2PortingHowto
 * ogra thought those links were in the bugs by default
<asac> slangasek: for main we just have xine-lib left ... which i am reviewing/working on now
<asac> ogra: not sure if we linked the portinghowto
<asac> but its linked from the reviewlist page
<ogra> ah
<asac> slangasek: which package are you interested in?
<slangasek> maybe I was having a bad reading day when I tried to look
<slangasek> asac: I'm not interested in any package, I'm interested in having the bugs resolved since they seem to be dragging on :)
<asac> slangasek: yeah. one left now ;)
<slangasek> didn't you just mark xine-lib as wontfix?
<slangasek> upx-ucl is still open, though
<asac> slangasek: sorry mixed those
<slangasek> ok
<asac> upx-ucl is what i am looking at ;)
<slangasek> then I guess they're in progress, so I don't need to stick my nose in
<asac> yep
<slangasek> any other questions for Mobile?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<slangasek> asac: thanks
<slangasek> ogasawara: hi
 * apw is here
<asac> thanks
<slangasek> apw: hi
<apw> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the items called out in the agenda.  The burndown chart for Release is at the third URL, and our burndown chart is at the fourth.  There are a couple of items outstanding in Beta-2 which either need closing or pushing out, none release critical:
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20ubuntu-10.04
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.04.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20ubuntu-10.04
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.04.html
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<apw> On the items pulled out on the agenda: the work remaining on AppArmor is upstreaming and not release criticical; the configuration review waits on the configuration report which is also not release critical.  Of the bugs a number have fixes in testing, the remainder are progressing.
<apw> We are planning a kernel upload for the main distro kernel today, this will carry some debian installer changes for XEN netboot images which need uploading to test completely.  This upload will also carry a stable update.  We likely will have one final upload early next week carrying a few stray fixes.
<apw> <eof>
<slangasek> apw: and next week's upload is the last before final?
<apw> slangasek, yes thats the plan
<apw> want you to have the longest run possible to the tape
<slangasek> apw: bug #542660 seems unlikely to make it - should that one be marked as deferred to SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 542660 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "New Apple iMac (Core i5) fails to boot" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/542660
<apw> yes i think we are likely in that position on that one, its looking like a large change
<slangasek> also bug #543617 looks risky for a last-minute change
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 543617 in linux "very slow filesystem I/O" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/543617
<apw> slangasek, i am told the change is very simple, so we may do it
<apw> essentially 'sync; umount' works
<slangasek> hmm, ok
<apw> and umount on its own does not ... so if we can simulate that it may be ok
<apw> else we'll have to wait for upstream to think more on why its not working as is
<jdstrand> that bug is evil
<apw> yeah has had us thinking hard for some time at that
<apw> slangasek, to move something to sru i assume the approved milestone is lucid-updates
<slangasek> apw: yes
<apw> thanks
<slangasek> no other kernel questions here; anyone else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> apw: thanks
<slangasek> pitti: ohai
<pitti> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> ork items: Beta-2 items all done; just three WIs left for final, of which two do not affect the distro (Launchpad bug filing page update, design review of simple-scan), and the third is to disable the "File a bug" menu entry, which is prepared, but should happen only before the release candidate.
 * pitti tosses a 'W' to the beginning
<pitti> RC bugs: they keep comin', and we now also explicitly added the UbuntuOne bugs (which the U1 team is working on), but we had a good turnover this week and fixed 9, and further 5 are "fix committed". Details are on the wiki page
<pitti> 2 RC bugs that we have serious trouble with: bug 507062 (investigation started, hoping that upstream will give some hints), and bug 447431 (was believed to be fixed for some time, but confirmed again recently; Chris will continue to investigate, now that his RC bug list has dropped dramatically)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 507062 in libx11 "synaptic assert failure: synaptic: ../../src/xcb_io.c:385: _XAllocID: Assertion `ret != inval_id' failed." [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/507062
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447431 in gnome-desktop "gnome-settings-daemon dies with BadMatch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447431
<pitti> desktop-lucid-openoffice: 3.2.1 was not released in time for Lucid final, but 3.2.0 is considered "good enough"; we'll provide 3.2.1 as an SRU
<slangasek> pitti: bug #527138 - AIUI thunderbird is /not/ done, the latest comment on the bug as of this morning was that the thunderbird-dev package is still missing a piece needed to allow packages to build against it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527138 in enigmail "enigmail is uninstallable in lucid, needs update to 1.0 - blocked by missing thunderbird-config" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527138
<pitti> slangasek: oh, hmm; I'll have a look at this and reopen then
<slangasek> OOo 3.2.1 as an SRU - that's going to fit in the normal SRU policy, or are we stretching the definition to make that work?
<pitti> slangasek: that remains to be seen, as it's not released yet
<pitti> but I guess it'll involve some stretching
<slangasek> :/
<pitti> perhaps s/we'll provide/we'll look at/
<slangasek> that would be nice :)
<pitti> once it's released and we know what things changed, we have to review that in detail
<pitti> slangasek: related to that, due to GNOME's slightly chagned release cycle, we can't put 2.30.1 into lucid final
<pitti> so we'll do some git snapshots early next week for the most important packages
<pitti> in hardy we had a SRU policy extension for GNOME point releases
<pitti> I think we should discuss applying that to lucid as well
 * ScottK would like to do that for KDE too.
<slangasek> agreed
<ScottK> (in general, but particularly for Lucid)
<pitti> i. e. we'll still review the changes, of course, but we might allow things like updated translations or harmless build system changes, etc.
<slangasek> should that be discussed at UDS?
 * doko would like to see this for OpenJDK too
<pitti> so ideally 10.04.1 would have GNOME 2.30.2 or .3, and the new OO.o
<pitti> doko: yes
<pitti> slangasek: makes sense
<slangasek> pitti: can you get it on the UDS agenda?
<pitti> we have traditionally put much more effort into SRUs for LTSes
<pitti> slangasek: yes, will do
<slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to get discussion of SRU extension for GNOME, KDE, OOo, OpenJDK point releases on UDS agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to get discussion of SRU extension for GNOME, KDE, OOo, OpenJDK point releases on UDS agenda
<pitti> seb128: want to do the thawing topic, or shall I?
<seb128> I wanted to raise again queue flushing on friday after freezes
<seb128> I say again because I think it was discussed before
<seb128> is there anything we can do to avoid having ton of updates landing to late to be tested before weekend?
<slangasek> seb128: was that the case this time that things landed too late to be tested?
<seb128> ie the half a day delay between beta2 and queue review there bring us in having updates landing on friday evening
<seb128> rather than on start of day
<seb128> yes
<slangasek> I would prefer not having to review anything in the queue, and be able to just flush it
<seb128> if they had been flushed yesterday we would have got updates this morning european time
<seb128> and the day to catch issues
<slangasek> unfortunately, some people have been uploading things to the freeze queue in lieu of getting FFe approval
<slangasek> which means the queue has to be sifted before accepting
<seb128> who are those people and can we teach them to not do that?
<seb128> at least main upload should know better...
<ScottK> seb128: I don't think so, I think it's just a lot of stuff in the queue.
<slangasek> I meant to include a note about this in the beta 2 freeze announcement to make it clear where the responsibility lies, but I failed to remember
<seb128> uploaders
<seb128> I mean those same people can upload directly after unfreeze
<seb128> why would they upload things during freezes which are not good to go after unfreeze?
<slangasek> seb128: well, it's *exclusively* main uploaders, as unseeded packages aren't frozen for beta
<seb128> it doesn't make sense to me
<slangasek> no, it doesn't make sense, it shouldn't be the practice, we should fix it - I just failed to send out the announcement beforehand and I saw several packages in the queue that this affected
<seb128> hum ok, still seems weird to me that we have people doing non lucid suitable upload to lucid queue during a freeze
<slangasek> if we message this more clearly next time, then there should be no problem with flushing immediately after beta
<ScottK> Also I reviewed and accepted enough stuff to keep most of the builders busy most of the night.  I don't think it delayed much.
<pitti> seb128: it's quite a common workflow for SRUs, but right, it sholdn't be for the devel release
<seb128> pitti, right but you don't unflush queues for sru
<seb128> the milestones freezes are supposed to end and things to go in
<pitti> ok, so in summary I think we know where the problem is and have to fix it on a social level then
<seb128> right
 * ScottK hands seb128 a stick.
<seb128> learning every day
<seb128> I wouldn't have though some people uploaded cracks to lucid queue during freezes
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> no Kubuntu status update today, sorry; apparently Jonathan is on holiday
<ScottK> I can give one
<pitti> please
<ScottK> Beta 2 went pretty well for Kubuntu.
<slangasek> seb128: btw, the first packages left in the freeze queue, that I accepted yesterday before going to bed, were metacity and compiz which ended up in a build-dep loop, so compiz didn't build all night anyway :/
<ScottK> It also looks like yesterday's ia64 build for qt4-x11 may succeed (well past where it failed).
<ScottK> We even have powerpc live CD ISO's that aren't oversized.
<seb128> slangasek, yeah, I noticed that today, unfortunate
<ScottK> slangasek: Were there any Kubuntu questions I can answer?
<pitti> ScottK: powerpc> wow - nice diet!
<slangasek> ScottK: we seem to still be struggling to get Kubuntu all the way there on the installer side; things that I thought had been tested and working with earlier milestones failed again with beta2 - do we know why this is?
<ScottK> I'm standing by to unseed OOo from KNR armel if it doesn't get sorted.
<ScottK> slangasek: I don't know.  I think that the main community developer for the KDE front end has not had a lot of time lately.
<ScottK> I agree it's an issue.
<ScottK> slangasek: Since Riddell isn't here, let's give him an action to investigate.
<slangasek> [ACTION] Riddell to investigate the lingering Kubuntu installer issues
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Riddell to investigate the lingering Kubuntu installer issues
<ScottK> Nice.
<ScottK> Nothing else from me.
<cjwatson> they're high on my radar as well.
<slangasek> I wonder if Kubuntu daily ISO testing is called for there
<slangasek> from now 'til RC
<ScottK> We'd need to get some fixes in first.
 * pitti EOR as well
<slangasek> because part of the problem seems to have been that we think things are fixed, and then we start beta testing three days before milestone, and we find there are still issues
<ScottK> Oh, I did do some Kubuntu Hardy -> Lucid testing and am pushing a few additional replaces for people who upgrade Ubuntu LTS -> LTS and have Kubuntu installed too.
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> Makes sense.
<slangasek> ScottK: could you put out a call for testing to the Kubuntu community for this?
<ScottK> slangasek: I can.
<slangasek> [ACTION] ScottK to put out a call for Kubuntu daily ISO testing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK to put out a call for Kubuntu daily ISO testing
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> I think that's it for desktop then, yes?
<marjo> ScottK: if appropriate, please enlist ara's help
<ScottK> marjo: Will do.
<ScottK> slangasek: AFAIK, yes.
<cjwatson> I'll make sure there's an installer upload today - it will include several Kubuntu fixes
<slangasek> pitti: btw, desktop-lucid-xorg-multitouch still has some WIs marked for beta2, perhaps you overlooked those?
<pitti> yes from my side
<pitti> slangasek: oh? hm, it shouldn't, I'll check
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> at least five that I can quickly see
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<pitti> slangasek: our WI tracker was empty the last couple of days..
 * davidbarth waves
<davidbarth> hi
<slangasek> davidbarth: hello
<davidbarth> relatively calm on the dx front
<davidbarth> we're hoping to be the least of your worries now
<davidbarth> some bugs fixed for beta-2: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana/+milestone/ubuntu-10.04-beta-2
<davidbarth> and this is what we have on the radar to the RC: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana/+milestone/ubuntu-10.04
<davidbarth> we'll mostly propose crasher fixes, and that's all
<slangasek> 546650> well, that's fixed in Ubuntu, dunno if you want that task open upstream still for some reason
<davidbarth> we're monitoring incoming bug lists with seb128 daily; so far so good
<slangasek> I think I saw 451086 was also fixed in Ubuntu
<davidbarth> on the dbusmenu-qt bug, agateau just confirmed that the fix is in and solves the issue
<slangasek> great
<davidbarth> that was: #548882
<slangasek> so indeed, the least of my worries now :)
<davidbarth> 2 wi still left in the blueprints: docs, meant as reminders
<davidbarth> so well, i'm reminded, that was the point
<slangasek> :-)
<davidbarth> that's it mostly; questions?
<slangasek> please carry them forward to final so that they continue to be useful as reminders
<slangasek> no questions here
<slangasek> anyone else?
<davidbarth> slangasek: ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> davidbarth: thanks
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<cjwatson> ^- up to date with bug statuses
<cjwatson> as per usual for this stage, most of our bugs are installation and upgrade bugs; I've gone through the High importance ones targeted to Lucid and milestoned a couple of those, too
<cjwatson> most of the outstanding milestoned installer bugs continue to be Kubuntu issues, as ScottK just pointed out.  a recent new contributor helped to clear up quite a few of these so I think we'll make it, but it requires continued attention
<cjwatson> thanks to slangasek for doing foundations-lucid-supportable-binaries, which accounted for most of our remaining work items :-)  I'm not worried about the rest
<cjwatson> a few new lucid-targeted bugs have come up from oem-priority that we'll need to pay attention to over the next week in order to support future deployments of 10.04 LTS
<cjwatson> that's all, folks
<slangasek> no questions here; anyone else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
<slangasek> that was easy ;)
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
<slangasek> jdstrand: hi
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> so, as always: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<jdstrand> all bps are done or postponed now
<jdstrand> I followed up on bug #528274 this morning, but no progress afaics
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528274 in ubuntuone-client "syncdaemon should have AppArmor profile" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528274
<jdstrand> from last week anyway
<jdstrand> last week we talked about libvirt and you asked for me to mention its status
<slangasek> I think I know the status now since there were 4 uploads of it into the freeze queue, but go ahead for the benefit of others ;)
<jdstrand> we stuck with 0.7.5 as you recall. which the server team and I feel is a good decision
<jdstrand> heh
<jdstrand> I was able to backport my 0.7.7 work to 0.7.5. all but one item, but it as a decent workaround that has been in place since karmic
<jdstrand> all the work has been upstreamed, and will be in 0.7.8, except for this one item which changed some internals and will be in the following release
<jdstrand> other than that, the security team is bug fixing, going through lucid to make sure it is up to date with security patches and we will be doing install audits next week
<jdstrand> only 2 of those libvirt uploads were mine by the way ;)
<jdstrand> that is it from me
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> any questions for security?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> ScottK: are we there yet?
<ScottK> Hello
<ScottK> NBS is still needing work.
<ScottK> Needs a look from someone that understands Ruby stuff and someone who knows about Tex packages
<ScottK> FTBFS numbers aren't great either.
<slangasek> we seem to have a real mess still with tetex in particular; I had pinged the dev who requested the sync, but no answer
<pitti> at this point it might be easier to reintroduce the transitional packages?
<pitti> instead of trying to fix dozens
 * ScottK has no opinion.
 * ScottK just wants it resolved ....
<slangasek> maybe, if you can reliably sort out how they're supposed to fit together - the tex packaging is a bit scary
<pitti> I did some NBS stuff in the past days, but the ruby stuff didn't look trivial, so I ignored it admittedly
<ScottK> Also there's some Ruby related stuff in New.  Not sure how much that will help NBS.
 * ScottK doesn't know anyone but lucas that understands it.
<ScottK> I've made some progress on Python stuff, but only stuff that FTBFS.  I didn't get as far as does stuff work.
<ScottK> Anyone who could help look at recent Debian uploads would be appreciated.
<ScottK> That's all I've got.
<slangasek> look at recent Debian uploads> do you have a recommended workflow for that?
<ScottK> No.  That's why I haven't done it.
<ScottK> rcbugs page is probably a good start.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> ScottK: thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<ScottK> slangasek: We need to decide on timing for final freeze for Universe
<ScottK> (not in the meeting, but soon)
<ScottK> And get it announced.
<slangasek> ScottK: I followed up to sistpoty's mail on ubuntu-release; 26 Apr seems fine to me as long as we're being judicious about not overloading the build queue
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> We can manage that as needed.
<slangasek> if no one has any objections, I can include that date in a "freeze is coming" u-d-a mail today
<ScottK> Given the recent rates of universe uploads, I don't expect it'll be a problem.
<ScottK> Sounds good.
<slangasek> one week to tax day^W^W final freeze, two weeks to RC, three weeks to release
<slangasek> let's get out there and kick some bugs :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:37.
<pitti> thanks everyone
<slangasek> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-10
<jussi01> o/
<nhandler> IRCC Meeting time
<nhandler> tsimpson, topyli, Pici, apachelogger?
<topyli> i am here
 * tsimpson is also here
<apachelogger> o/
<nhandler> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is nhandler.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Election of a chairman for the IRCC as per the approved charrter
<MootBot> New Topic:  Election of a chairman for the IRCC as per the approved charrter
<nhandler> jussi01: You added this item
<jussi01> yes
<nhandler> Care to talk about it?
<jussi01> we need to add a chairman, nominations were on the background page, only I nominated, so perhaps a confirmation vote?
<jussi01> Unless someone else wants to nominate now?
<tsimpson> nah, let's just vote
<jussi01> lets do it then.
<nhandler> [VOTE] Should jussi01 serve as the IRCC chairman per the requirement in the IRCC Charter?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Should jussi01 serve as the IRCC chairman per the requirement in the IRCC Charter?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<tsimpson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tsimpson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jussi01> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from jussi01. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nhandler> #endvote
<nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 3
<nhandler> [AGREED] jussi01 to serve as IRCC chairman per the requirement in the IRCC Charter
<MootBot> AGREED received:  jussi01 to serve as IRCC chairman per the requirement in the IRCC Charter
<nhandler> His term ends before the end of the year. We can deal with this when we get closer to that point
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Request: Make the kubuntu-council team ops for all kubuntu channels
<MootBot> New Topic:  Request: Make the kubuntu-council team ops for all kubuntu channels
<nhandler> apachelogger: Care to explain this a bit?
<jussi01> I have no issues at all with this.
<topyli> makes sense to me
<apachelogger> the kubuntu-council are elected representees of the kubuntu members, currently as council member you would need ot apply for ops individually
<nhandler> Hmm... tsimpson, correct me if I'm wrong, but once the script is done, wouldn't having the Kubuntu Council team being an admin of the various kubuntu channel op teams on LP allow them to add OPs?
<apachelogger> which is a bit of a problem when no op is around
<jussi01> apachelogger: do you want to create a kubuntucouncil nick or do you want each of your individual names on the list?
<tsimpson> nhandler: yes, when the plugin is complete
<nhandler> That would avoid the need to have a kubuntucouncil nick, and make it easy to update the access lists when the council changes
<apachelogger> jussi01: I understand the fancy restructoring that is going on would allow the individual names to be on the list, if so then that would be preferred
<jussi01> apachelogger: ok
<apachelogger> drop people as they leave the lp team and add them as the get add
<nhandler> tsimpson: What was the latest estimate on the script?
<tsimpson> there's nothing stopping us from adding these nicks to the access list(s) now, so we don't need to wait for the plugin
<jussi01> SO if I may rephrase, the KC council team to be added as an admin to the #kubuntu-* channels as admin (LP)
<nhandler> tsimpson: But by doing that, they would be added individually, so the access list would not get updated when the kubuntu council LP team is updated
<tsimpson> nhandler: there really isn't one, but it's progressing quite slowly right now. I'm attempting to get more people involved in it
<jussi01> nhandler: we can apply changes on LP by hand
<jussi01> its just a little manual work.
<apachelogger> we can report member ship changes if that helps :)
<nhandler> jussi01: It also makes it confusing to know who is an OP due to being on the council and who was already an op
<apachelogger> it's not like things change that often though ^^
<topyli> apachelogger, you referred to situations when no ops are around. this should never be he case, and if it is so, this issue should be fixed rather quickly
<jussi01> nhandler: huh? not really as the council is admin, so therefore has +f. we can also just use templates <(
<apachelogger> topyli: this was the case on April 3 or 2, someone was in a constant join-part loop for surely an hour or more
<nhandler> jussi01: I was talking about if we were to simply add all the council members individually to the access list and lp team like I thought was suggested
<nhandler> apachelogger: As a note, if no OPs are around, freenode staff are on the access lists and can help out
<apachelogger> since I was around and am council member I found it a bit weird that I immediately couldnt do anything about it due to lack of op
<jussi01> nhandler: read my rephrase again <(
<topyli> apachelogger, makes this more urgent
<jussi01> When we talked to the KC about this, we said that we would add them as admins to the LP group. this shouldnt be an issue.
<tsimpson> the kubuntu-council really *should* have access anyway, and it's unfair to ask them to wait for us (me) to finish the ubottu plugin code for it
<nhandler> What I would like to do is a) add the council as an admin on LP. b) Make a note about which members of the council already have OP access and in which channels. c) Add all Kubuntu council members as OPs in the channels. d) When the script is done, switch to using that
<jussi01> nhandler: yes. but we should use templates so its easy to see.
<tsimpson> only riddell already has op access afaics
<tsimpson> compare https://edge.launchpad.net/~irc-kubuntu-ops/+members and https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-council/+members
<jussi01> I propose that KC members are give votriAf access. Or somehing similar. because of their admin satus
<jussi01> tsimpson: this is devel and offtopic also
<nhandler> jussi01: Is that the set of flags we are going to give all admins?
 * ScottK thinks it was easier before.  Less bureacracy.
<tsimpson> jussi01: none of the council are on those access lists either afaics
<jussi01> ScottK: when things get their order and all is in place, this will be simple.
<nhandler> ScottK: We are still working all of the kinks out of the process. It should become a lot easier in the coming months
<ScottK> Probably should have been done before the new world order was imposed.
<Tm_T> ScottK: which image(s) I should test, btw?
<topyli> we were talking about getting the KC council to access lists though
<nhandler> [VOTE] Add the Kubuntu Council team as an admin of all the kubuntu channel op teams on LP. Note which members of the council already have OP access and in which channels. Add all Kubuntu Council members as OPs in the channels (+votiArf). Transition to using the script to manage this once it is done
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Add the Kubuntu Council team as an admin of all the kubuntu channel op teams on LP. Note which members of the council already have OP access and in which channels. Add all Kubuntu Council members as OPs in the channels (+votiArf). Transition to using the script to manage this once it is done.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<tsimpson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tsimpson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jussi01> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi01. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<nhandler> [AGREED] Add the Kubuntu Council team as an admin of all the kubuntu channel op teams on LP. Note which members of the council  already have OP access and in which channels. Add all Kubuntu Council members as OPs in the channels (+votiArf). Transition to using the script to manage this once it is done.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Add the Kubuntu Council team as an admin of all the kubuntu channel op teams on LP. Note which members of the council  already have OP access and in which channels. Add all Kubuntu Council members as OPs in the channels (+votiArf). Transition to using the script to manage this once it is done.
<nhandler> Anyone want to action this? If not, I will.
<jussi01> I can action this tomorrow
<apachelogger> thanks everyone :)
<jussi01> or you can nhandler whatever works.
<nhandler> [ACTION] jussi01 to make the necessary changes on LP and IRC
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jussi01 to make the necessary changes on LP and IRC
<jussi01> ok
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Any other Topics?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other Topics?
<nhandler> Any other topics that need to be discussed?
<jussi01> can I sleep now?
<topyli> heh
<topyli> jussi01, we can discuss that :)
<tsimpson> we should vote ;)
<jussi01> ACTION jussi01 to go to sleep
<nhandler> If not, does someone want to handle minutes and stuff like that? I can if not
<jussi01> nhandler: chairmans rsponsibility
<tsimpson> just don't forget to #endmeeting
<jussi01> yeah lol
<nhandler> jussi01: Not necessarily ;) If someone else wants to do it, I like to ask
<jussi01> hehe, fair enough
 * nhandler notes that jussi01 is the chairman, nhandler is just chairing the meeting
<jussi01> nhandler: sssh
<jussi01> lol
<nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler to handle minutes and stuff like that
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to handle minutes and stuff like that
<nhandler> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:25.
<jussi01> doh... I was going to add 'all the time' there
<jussi01> :D
<jussi01> nini
<topyli> ok, thanks guys
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-11
<emma> mc44
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-04
<HottestGuyEver> Hii all welcome private girls
<humphreybc> HottestGuyEver: Hey.
<AlanBell> HottestGuyEver: this is a channel for meetings about the Ubuntu project, I suspect you are in the wrong place
<richthegeek> hot guys can be geeks too
<Pici> HottestGuyEver: I think you're in the wrong channel, or perhaps the wrong server
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-05
<head_victim> So anyone else here for the Asia & Oceania Region Membership Board meeting?
<TeTeT> head_victim: I'd be here for membership application, but going to lunch now
<head_victim> TeTeT: Ah ok, I'm an applicant as well
<Pendulum> elky: lifeless freeflyi1g: you have people here for the membership meeting?
<head_victim> Pendulum & TeTeT not looking likely.
<Pendulum> head_victim: yeah, I'm sorry about that, not sure what happened (I'm not here for the meeting, just was poking board members to see if any would respond)
<head_victim> Pendulum: it's ok there is always next month just this one happened to line up nicely with a day off from work
<Pendulum> head_victim: I don't know what time zone you're in, but you can also put your name on the lists for the EMEA and Americas boards
<head_victim> +10
<Pendulum> head_victim: you might want to look and decide if you can make it to the next meeting for either https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<Pendulum> (you're not required to go for membership to your local RMB, just usually it's easier for people to do so)
<head_victim> Hmm I could wake up tomorrow morning for the EMEA
<head_victim> Thanks for the options, I'll just work in whatever ends up suiting the best around my shifts.
<zul> gday
<smb> vning
<jamespage> o/
<Daviey> o/
<kirkland> o/
<robbiew> o/
<SpamapS> oOoOoOo
<jamespage> o/ (again)
<hallyn> \o
<jamespage> OK so lets make a start
<jamespage> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is jamespage.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jamespage> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage> Daviey to talk with wider docs team regarding translations (deferred, carry over)
<Daviey> Okay, i briefly spoke with dpm
<jamespage> Any progress on this one Daviey?
<smoser> o/
<Daviey> It seems something to table for the next cycle.
<Daviey> (until the next cycle)
<jamespage> OK; so is that going to need a UDS topic?
<SpamapS> Daviey: was there any mention of the greater problem of nobody actually working on the server guide this cycle? :-/
<Daviey> jamespage, yes
<Daviey> SpamapS, what you said + s/server guide/docs/
<Daviey> The whole platform docs are lacking this cycle.
<SpamapS> Daviey: *ouch*
<Daviey> As in, there currently isn't really any activity this cycle.
<jamespage> [ACTION] Daviey to submit UDS-O topic for translations and docs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to submit UDS-O topic for translations and docs
<Daviey> Ta
<jamespage> Next: Daviey to post another followup one euca-dhcp bug. (carry over)
<jamespage> Daviey?
<jamespage> Hmmm; might need to come back to that one
<jamespage> SpamapS : to put his version of ubuntuserver-minutes in directions for writing minutes
<SpamapS> Done 2 weeks ago, its in the comments of the meeting page.
<jamespage> Right-oh looks like the actions might not quite be right - I'll take it off.
<SpamapS> no I skipped last week ;)
<SpamapS> it was a carry over
<Daviey> jamespage, It is making it progress..
<Daviey> It looks fixed, but requires verification
<Daviey> ..
<jamespage> OK - do you need any action from this team? I'm happy to have a go at testing it
<Daviey> jamespage, testing is MUCHLY appreciated
<Daviey> There is a known upgrade issue, which is currently being worked on
<Daviey> but fresh install testing would be really beneficial
<jamespage> [ACTION] jamespage to helpout with verification of euca-dhcp bug
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jamespage to helpout with verification of euca-dhcp bug
<Daviey> thanks!
<jamespage> Next: ALL: Please review the current documentation (for Natty release)
<Daviey> Euca is currently looking adequate.
<jamespage> Anyone else managed to find some time to review docs?
<jamespage> Well I know that I've not managed to; suggest that we carry that action
<hallyn> jamespage: once again, for the minutes, a link?
<SpamapS> jamespage: I did but I can't figure out how to *fix* problems.
<SpamapS> the server guide is no longer in the ubuntu-docs package.. not sure where exactly it lives
 * SpamapS must end this line of speaking because compiz has just eaten itself... 
<jamespage> hallyn: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting (follow link at bottom of page)
<jamespage> So can anyone enlighten us on how to fix documentation issues?
<zul> it got removed into a pdf didnt it/
<SpamapS> well it has a bzr tree somewhere
<SpamapS> zul: pdf + html
<SpamapS> its all in docbook.. somewhere. :-P
<zul> SpamapS: *cough* https://code.launchpad.net/~asommer/ubuntu-docs/serverguide
<Daviey> erm
<Daviey> that isn't the main location... is it?!
<Daviey> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/natty
<zul> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs maybe?
<zul> i dunno maybe we need to fire off an email to asommer then
<SpamapS> Daviey: where did you find that?
<jamespage> Well it seems like there is some confusion; I'll pickup and action to try and find out...
<jamespage> [ACTION] jamespage to discover process/location for fixing ubuntu server documentation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jamespage to discover process/location for fixing ubuntu server documentation
 * jamespage thinks I might be a glutton for punishment but hey-ho
<jamespage> Daviey to talk with docs team about new submissions (New documentation for cluster stack)
<jamespage> seems to all be about documentation this week Daviey
<Daviey> That made no progress due to lack of activity
<SpamapS> That does look like the bit I was looking for tho, so thanks. :)
<Daviey> This shares the same action as UDS-O session
<jamespage> OK; so thats last weeks actions...
<Daviey> \o/
<jamespage> [TOPIC] Natty Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Development
<robbiew> should be no "development"...just bug fixing ;)
<zul> dang it
<Daviey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=server-nrs
<Daviey> Essentially, we are looking pretty good.
<smoser> i have a probably bad question to ask . bug 726572 and bug 727200
<hallyn> zul: isn't bug 742770 fixed as of your upload yesterday?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 726572 in cloud-initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "[MIR] cloud-initramfs-tools" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/726572
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 727200 in lxc (Ubuntu Natty) "[MIR] lxcguest in main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727200
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 742770 in lxc (Ubuntu) "Erorr in syntax in ubuntu templates" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/742770
<smoser> are both MIR
<zul> hallyn: it should
<Daviey> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<jamespage> OK; next topic is...
<jamespage> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<SpamapS> Apr. 13,14 I will be at the MySQL Users' Conference in Santa Clara, CA
<SpamapS> Speaking on the 13th about how Natty is the best platform for trying out Drizzle. :)
<jamespage> Good luch SpamapS - hope if goes well :-)
<jamespage> I'll be attending puppet camp europe on the 28/29 April in Amsterdam
<SpamapS> Yeah I should probably start on my slides. :)
<jamespage> zul: are you attending the openstack summit?
<SpamapS> I wonder if I should pop up and crash the openstack summit for 1 day. :)
<smoser> jamespage, at previous puppet camp, we ran an awstrial for them
<zul> Apr 25 - 29 I will be at the Openstack summit i santa clara, CA
<smoser> it went over pretty well, and we're more mature in some respects.. we may want to offer that to them again.
<SpamapS> Definitely get in contact with puppetlabs now so we can be more prepared.
<jamespage> smoser: OK suggest we pick that up separately - I'll ping you directly and we can take it from there
<SpamapS> Would be extremely cool if it were an awstrial backed by UEC. :)
<SpamapS> then again, that might require 4 or 5 NC's ;)
<jamespage> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<jamespage> hggdh: over to you
<hggdh> k
<hggdh> still trying to find the culprit on bug 746751
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746751 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel: [Firmware Bug]: the BIOS has corrupted hw-PMU resources (MSR 38d is 30)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746751
<smoser> for what its worth, awstrial could be backed by UEC. but its not useful.
<hggdh> pretty much all my time has been dedicated to this and kernel sru testing this week
<hggdh> and it is not helping much that I am getting extremely weird results on local KVM testing
<hggdh> ..
<hallyn> hggdh: weird?
<hallyn> hggdh: the bug report suggests that kvm by hand is fine?
<hggdh> hallyn: on the kernel SRU tests -- I get security failures, compiler stracktraces, the whole 9 yards
<jjohansen> hggdh: ?
<jjohansen> oh right
<hallyn> hggdh: jinkeys!  I've not seen any of that
<hggdh> hallyn: I am currently running a lucid image copied over, and no issues so far
<hggdh> the same lucid image barfs in many different and instructive ways on my laptop
<jjohansen> hggdh: faulty hardware?
<hallyn> well jdstrand had some bad kvm results too, but we never were able to figure it out
<hggdh> jjohansen: it might -- I am also seeing now what seems to be wireless errors
<hallyn> hggdh: is htere an open bug for that?
<hallyn> (so we can take this out of the meeting :)
<jamespage> OK so we do need to push on;
<jamespage> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<hggdh> hallyn: we can talk after the meeting
<smb> Hi
<hallyn> hggdh: ok
<smb> So some time was spend on bug 634487
 * jdstrand needs to bisect that still...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 634487 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "t1.micro instance hangs when installing java" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634487
<smb> Though unfortunately or fortunately all is good with latest natty on my centos 5.5 + xen 3.4.3
<smb> but not on ec2 which is centos 5.0 + xen 3.1.something.
<Daviey> smb, is 634487 likely to be resolved this cycle?
<smb> Tried a centos 5.0 install this week but was set back by the slight difference of yum upgrade to apt-get upgrade
<smb> Daviey, If amazon upgrade... yes
<smb> Otherwise I still have no clue what happens because I cannot look outside
<smb> Daviey, The bug seems to be some interaction between xen hypervisor and the kernel. And it looks like newer Xen works
<jjohansen> right, I find it unlikely this one can be resolved
<smb> I guess the interesting part of natty failing is that this contains the 3 patches fiddling around with the interrrupt types used
<smb> Which is iirc the changes we get asked to get for that problem...
<jamespage> smb: anything else from the kernel team? or any questions for smb?
<smb> On a sidenote I would have a patch now to make Hardy move to edge interrupts and the lucid updates just have hit the point of making them fasteoi...
<Daviey> smb, thanks!
 * smb waits for questions
<smoser> no questions, but comment to others
<smb> Oh one thing
<smoser> jjohansen, wrote to mailing list asking for feedback
<smoser> GIVE HIM SOME
<jjohansen> hehe, thanks smoser
<smb> Has anybody exxperinece with using generic kernels under RHEL HVM?
<smoser> "generic kernels"
<smoser> as in kernel.org ?
<smb> IOW 10.04 but not the ec2 kernel
<smb> So lucid-generic
<smoser> smb, well we know it doesnt work
<Daviey> jjohansen, How is your list of wishes coming on?
<smb> smoser, Then who sold that to the German LVM customer?
<smoser> and i may have a bit more info for you.
<smb> smoser, bug 751253
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 751253 in linux (Ubuntu) "Many interrupts and slow disk I/O on Lucid xen guest" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751253
<jjohansen> Daviey: slowly, the two big ones are still xen dom0 and containers
<Daviey> jjohansen, oh joy
<smoser> smb, there was a thread on ubuntu-cloud about lucid hvm.  i built a daily image to just see what would happen. i reported there what was wrong
<smb> smoser, Hm, maybe I could chicken out of looking at that bug report and let you reply...
<jamespage> OK guys - we are running a little short on time; smoser, smb can you pick that issue up separately
<jamespage> please :-)
<smoser> thread at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-cloud/2011-March/000577.html
<smb> ok ok. :)
<jamespage> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<jamespage> Guess that we have already discussed docs to death this week.
<jamespage> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<jamespage> So anything from the community this week?
<jamespage> Okay so moving on...
<jamespage> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<jamespage> Anything else anyone wants to raise?
<Daviey> More ideas for blueprints for next UDS please
<Daviey> (See ubuntu-server mailing list for inspiration)
<SpamapS> I liked the wiki page last time
<Daviey> or ping one of us.  thanks
<SpamapS> Should we start collecting in a wiki page or just go right to blueprint?
<Daviey> SpamapS, I think hold fire for this week...
<Daviey> lets collate more ideas.
<Daviey> Although, talking of which...
<SpamapS> Alright, I have a few that I'll be mailing about this week.
<Daviey> considering the activity of the mysql alternatives thread, expected some more input on the comparision wikipage
<Daviey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase/FeatureComparison/MySQL
<Daviey> and perhaps a similar thing, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase/FeatureComparison/NetworkMonitoring
<jamespage> And finally....
<Daviey> Currently there seems to be no compelling reason for us to look at anything other than mysql IMO.
<Daviey> ..
<jamespage> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<jamespage> Tuesday, April 12th 2011 16:00 UTC - see you all then :-)
<jamespage> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:00.
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<SpamapS> nice, right on the nose ;)
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (6 bugs, 8 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Beta 2 Milestoned Bugs (64 across all packages (up 5)) ====
<JFo>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (down 2)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (272 across all packages (down 2)) ====
<JFo>  * 27 linux kernel bugs (up 5)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 6 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Maverick Updates Bugs ====
<JFo> changed to only reflect linux package bugs
<JFo>  * 6 Linux Bugs
<JFo> ==== Lucid Updates Bugs ====
<JFo> changed to only reflect linux package bugs
<JFo>  * 15 Linux Bugs
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:87 (up 3) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<JFo> * My plan for these is to have this blueprint completed prior to the release of Beta 2.
<JFo> As such, it is a high priority for me and I will be focusing on those items that are still
<JFo> outstanding for this week.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Last week we uploaded the 2.6.38-8.40 kernel which is based on the latest upstream stable v2.6.38.2.  As Kernel Freeze is April 14, I plan to do another upload today for the patches queued in master-next and then a final upload before kernel freeze on Mon April 11 so that our builds are complete by the 14th.  After kernel freeze we will transition to our SRU policy when submitting and accepting patches.  See:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelUpdates and
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/StablePatchFormat
<ogasawara> Any uploads beyond kernel freeze will likely have to resolve a critical issue, otherwise, it'll have to wait for the first round of SRU's.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelUpdates and
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/StablePatchFormat
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<bjf> ||
<bjf> || Last week we completed the Verification phase of the current cycle and entered the Testing Phase.
<bjf> || When testing is completed, the packages can be published.
<bjf> ||
<bjf> || This has the next upload to proposed and the start of the next cycle to be on 4/29.
<bjf> ||
<bjf> || Since there are a lot of changes in the Maverick kernel from upstream stable patches, and because there
<bjf> || are people interested in verifying specific fixes, we will soon produce a kernel and upload it to -proposed
<bjf> || for Maverick. This is not on the schedule, and is not part of a normal kernel cycle. We will replce it
<bjf> || with a kernel containing additional fixes for th enext official cycle.
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<bjf> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<bjf> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<bjf> || dapper   linux-source-2.6.15               || 2.6.15-57.94         || 2.6.15-57.95         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<bjf> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<bjf> || karmic   linux-ec2                         || 2.6.31-308.28        || 2.6.31-308.29        ||    1 ||        1 ||
<bjf> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.31-23.74         || 2.6.31-23.75         ||    1 ||        1 ||
<bjf> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<bjf> || lucid    linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-314.27        || 2.6.32-315.28        ||    5 ||        5 ||
<bjf> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.30.23         || 2.6.32.31.23         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<bjf> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || 2.6.35.25.36         || 2.6.35.28.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<bjf> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-28.50~lucid1  ||   13 ||       13 ||
<bjf> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-30.29         || 2.6.32-31.31         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<bjf> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.4               || 1.34.7               ||    1 ||        1 ||
<bjf> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-30.59         || 2.6.32-31.60         ||    5 ||        5 ||
<bjf> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.30.36         || 2.6.32.31.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<bjf> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.32.314.15        || 2.6.32.315.16        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<bjf> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<bjf> || maverick linux-backports-modules-2.6.35
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo>  574 Natty Bugs (up 121)
<JFo>  1252 Maverick Bugs (up 14)
<JFo>  1061 Lucid Bugs (up 8)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 46 maverick bugs (up 4)
<JFo>   * 77 lucid bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 6 karmic bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 287 natty bugs (up 70)
<JFo>   * 246 maverick bugs (up 7)
<JFo>   * 222 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 38 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 15 natty bugs (up 5)
<JFo>   * 0 maverick bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> My effort last week was a bit different as I did not advertise the bug day in the same way I normally do. In this last case,
<JFo> I directly pinged those parties that have provided the majority of the bug triage during our normally advertised bug days.
<JFo> I also pressed those who continually ask me to review bugs (other than through the normal channels) to asist us in triaging
<JFo> those bugs that they are bringing to my attention. It doesn't seem to have had the desired effect, so I'll be going back to
<JFo> the e-mail and blog/tweet for advertisement of our bug days. The next bug day will be next Tuesday. We will be focusing on
<JFo> regression-release bugs in all status starting with the new state.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> I didn't do much in the way of triage for the past week, nor did I interact heavily with our triagers due to the need to plan
<JFo> for UDS a bit and to get my schedule in order for all of the tasks yet to do in this cycle. This week will likely be the same
<JFo> as I will be working ot implement the plan and close out my remaining tasks while drafting blueprint information for the O UDS.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<kamal> o/
<bjf> kamal, go
<kamal> thanks ogasawara for the ubuntu-oneiric.git repo ... the Oneiric 2.6.39 kernel builds and works great on Natty!
<kamal> ..
<ogasawara> \o/
<ogasawara> I'll send an official email to the mailing list once I get the armel builds going
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> anything else ?
<JFo> Thank you for attending the JFo and bjf show... we hope you had a good time. Please tip your server.    :-P
 * JFo giggles
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:08.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<ppisati> :)
 * smb tries to purge input queue
<kamal> thanks bjf and JFo ... always a good show!
 * ogasawara wonders what bjf's record time is for these meetings
<JFo> 5 minutes
<kamal> yeah, this one just dragged on and on by comparison to some of our recent meetings ;-)
<ogasawara> heh
<JFo> it was because I was a bit long winded in my responses :-P
<cking> can you get the meeting down to 5 mins next time?
<kamal> I will only be impressed if bjf somehow figures out how to #startmeeting and #endmeeting in the same chat line
<jjohansen> ouch kamal I can see you are hard to please :)
<JFo> cking, I will do my best
<JFo> :)
<__rayray__> hello
<StefandeVries> hi
<__rayray__> testing out my vm box on Ubuntu through PC-BSD
<StefandeVries> I'm not sure this is the right channel for that, but I could well be mistaking
<rafaellaguna> Barry, are you there?
<UndiFineD> hey rafaellaguna it is in an hour
<rafaellaguna> hi, Undie ;)
<rafaellaguna> not now?
<UndiFineD> next hour
<UndiFineD> google messed up times again
<rafaellaguna> LOL so I'll dinner a bit until that
<leoquant> zo
<leoquant> EMEA is 20:00 UTC?
<highvoltage> yep
<leoquant> hi highvoltage
 * stgraber waves
<highvoltage> good evening leoquant
<ogra_> moop
<popey> o/
<serfus> hello everybody
<UndiFineD> o/
<barrydrake> hi
<RawChid> Goed evening
<rafaellaguna> hi there, guys!
<highvoltage> who's chairing today?
<czajkowski> Aloha
<popey> I'd rather not, I'm doing CC directly after this
<highvoltage> I think that there's a rule somewhere that says that people who say "Aloha" has to chair
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:03. The chair is czajkowski.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<czajkowski> who's here for the meeting :)
 * iulian waves.
<popey> o/
 * highvoltage o/
<popey> Welcome iulian !
<stgraber> o/
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA  tonights agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA  tonights agenda
<czajkowski> we'll work our way though the list from top to bottom
<serfus> o/
<charlie-tca__> o/
<iulian> Cheers popey.
<aquarius> o/
<czajkowski> [topic] rafaellaguna
<MootBot> New Topic:  rafaellaguna
<highvoltage> for those who aren't following the news, we welcome iulian today as a new EMEA RMB board member
<rafaellaguna> me :)
<ogra_> welcome iulian !
<czajkowski> rafaellaguna: care to tell us about yourself so please
<czajkowski> iulian: aloha
<UndiFineD> \o/
<serfus> good luck with the board iulian
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/rafaellaguna
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/rafaellaguna
<leoquant> \o/ iulian
<iulian> Thanks. :)
<czajkowski> rafaellaguna: are you here?
<rafaellaguna> well, just a designe, but evolved with Ubuntu and Lubuntu
<rafaellaguna> designer
<rafaellaguna> can you read me?
<stgraber> yep
<popey> rafaellaguna: are all your contributions to lubuntu?
<rafaellaguna> part. a bit was for the Catalan loco team (translating, advertising, public "exposure")
<highvoltage> rafaellaguna: your wiki page doesn't seem to mention much ubuntu-specific work outside of lubuntu. which ubuntu work have you been involved in?
<rafaellaguna> that was for Ubuntu
<highvoltage> (sorry my IRC session was a bit slow there for a bit)
<rafaellaguna> Oh, and distributing and installing at children schools, musical masterclasses, etc
<rafaellaguna> ...spreading a bit...
<highvoltage> rafaellaguna: you mention that you did the graphics work for the lubuntu website, but I notice that it still uses the old-style ubuntu theming: http://lubuntu.net/ - have you done any work on it recently?
<popey> rafaellaguna: I'm not seeing much documentation of what you've done specifically for Ubuntu?
<rafaellaguna> In Spain, Linux is not very known
<rafaellaguna> We're currently redesigning the site (not just the icons you can see)
<czajkowski> really? The catalan team is rather active
<highvoltage> rafaellaguna: spreading ubuntu at schools is a great thing to do, that's something you should document on your wiki page for sure, and with details
<rafaellaguna> sure, I'll do, but I think it's what we all must do
<UndiFineD> rafaellaguna, also is involved with #ubuntu-adverts
<rafaellaguna> thanks, UndiDineD, yes, I'm collaborating
<czajkowski> rafaellaguna: just the work isn't documented clearly on the wiki, do you have anyone else here to vouch for you fro the advertising team or the catalan loco ?
<highvoltage> in Andalusia Linux is quite big too
<rafaellaguna> We're planning to lauch flyers in Valencia for Installing Parties
<popey> i have no more questions
<czajkowski> I've no more questions
 * highvoltage neither
<iulian> rafaellaguna: Sounds great.  I reckon you should probably get in touch with the ubuntu-es team for that.
<rafaellaguna> great!
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the membership of rafaellaguna . ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the membership of rafaellaguna . ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> +0 [ Not enough documented contributions or feedback from known contributors ]
<MootBot> Abstention received from highvoltage. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<popey> -1 I'd like to see more evidence of contributions to Ubuntu. if there are more contributions but they're not on the wiki, then the wiki page should be updated
<MootBot> -1 received from popey. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<czajkowski> -1 not seeing enough work documented.
<MootBot> -1 received from czajkowski. 0 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
 * popey pokes stgraber iulian 
 * popey pokes ogra_ also :D
<ogra_> +1  [ running the whole artwork for a distro alone and even making it look good is agood contribution even if its not directly to ubuntu ]
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 1 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<stgraber> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from stgraber. 1 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
<iulian> -1 from me at the moment.  I would like to see more work done.
<MootBot> -1 received from iulian. 1 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
<czajkowski> #endvote
<czajkowski> grrr
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 4 against. 1 abstained. Total: -3
<ogra_> seems i stand alone with my opinion :)
<popey> always the maverick ogra_
<ogra_> heh
<popey> rafaellaguna: bad luck this time, keep going!
<czajkowski> rafaellaguna: sorry at this time it appears you are not successful, please don't take this badly adn we look forward to seeing you back again with more of your work documented.
<czajkowski> [topic] RawChid
<MootBot> New Topic:  RawChid
<rafaellaguna> ok, thank you very much
<highvoltage> rafaellaguna: I suggest you document your non-artwork contributions on your wiki page. It would also be great to see some testimonials from the Lubuntu crowd.
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RachidBM
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RachidBM
<czajkowski> RawChid: aloha, can you tell us about yourself please?
<RawChid> Hi there
<Cees> hi RawChid
<RawChid> My name is Rachid and I live in the Netherlands. I've used linux now and then from 2004, but since 2007 I'm really enthusiastic about Ubuntu.
<RawChid> At the moment I'm finalizing my Master thesis in Computer Science and work part time as Java and php programmer.
<RawChid> My plan is to continue my current activities for Ubuntu NL which you can find on my wiki.
<RawChid> And in the long run I want to become more active in international teams. Most likely something with programming or packaging.
 * highvoltage has no questions
<czajkowski> RawChid: impressive wiki :D
<UndiFineD> \o/
<RawChid> Thank you
<iulian> No questions from me either.
<czajkowski> RawChid: so can you tell me, how are you involved in your loco ?
<popey> oooo
<RawChid> Sorry, what do you mean czajkowski?
<RawChid> I'm doing some stuff with different teams of the loco...
<czajkowski> RawChid: the dutch loco ? are you involved in it ?
<RawChid> Yes,
<czajkowski> in what way ?
<highvoltage> RawChid: the Log section on your wiki page mentions that you organised a local Jam before. I think czajkowski wants to hear more about those kind of things
<leoquant> ã great guy +1 from me he one of the members who  activates loco initiatives
<RawChid> Well, currently my focus is on finishing the last translations for NAtty with the Dutch Translators
<czajkowski> good translations are a great way to get ubuntu out there :)
<RawChid> highvoltage, sorry, me and Ronnie are organising a local Jam on April 16th
<czajkowski> RawChid: great to hear
<czajkowski> I've no more questions,.
<RawChid> That is a bit confusing
<czajkowski> popey: ogra_ highvoltage stgraber iulian any more questions?
<ogra_> nope
<popey> no
<stgraber> nope
<iulian> No.
<Ronnie> RawChid: is a great loco member, he is active in different parts of the loco (translating, documtation, forum and wiki), he also helped me with the forum thema
<popey> thanks for the feedback Ronnie
<popey> and leoquant :)
<popey> er ã
<leoquant> http://wiki.ubuntu-nl.org/community/mwanzo/Workshop
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu-nl.org/community/mwanzo/Workshop
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the membership of RawChid. ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the membership of RawChid. ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<czajkowski> +1 great work keep it up and welcome
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<highvoltage> +1 [ Significant and sustained LoCo and translations involvement ]
<ogra_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<popey> +1 great work, keep on contributing!
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<iulian> +1 nice work.  Well done.
<MootBot> +1 received from iulian. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<stgraber> +1 [great work]
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<czajkowski> well done and welcome to RawChid
<charlie-tca__> Congratulations, RawChid
<highvoltage> RawChid: congratulations and welcome
<leoquant> \o/
<RawChid> Wow, great thanks
<czajkowski> [topic] serfus
<MootBot> New Topic:  serfus
<Cees> \o/
<Ronnie> \o/
<RawChid> I want to thank you, and especially my dear fellow Ubuntu NL members
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/serfus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/serfus
<serfus> howdy people
<UndiFineD> \o/
<czajkowski> wow that;s a lot of colour on the wiki
<serfus> :D
<popey> added RawChid to ~ubuntumembers
<highvoltage> serfus: is ICQ still big in Israel?
<serfus> highvoltage, heh ya, it is
<highvoltage> I thought it pretty much died everywhere already :)
<serfus> mainly with younger people
<hajour_> \o/ RawChid
<highvoltage> ah, and here I thought that young people today only use facebook chat. just shows you how out of touch I am already :)
<ogra_> you old fart :P
<ogra_> :)
<czajkowski> ogra_: hello pot
<ogra_> thats a lot of nice loco work on that wiki i'd say
<czajkowski> serfus: so you've involved in the loco, well done on the translations
<highvoltage> serfus: tell me more about the beginners team. we have so many people from that team applying for membership and yet it's quite a mystery to me
<czajkowski> serfus: how if you got membership would you help your team , future plans??
<serfus> yup, since i have been elected as the loco contact i haven't got much for translation but i am currently working on the LD
<czajkowski> LD ++  :d
<serfus> highvoltage, i am not a part of the team, i only support on the IRC room
<czajkowski> serfus: why are you not part of the loco ?
<czajkowski> sorry nm
<czajkowski> misread
<highvoltage> serfus: what kind of work does the ubuntu-youth-council do?
<serfus> at the ubuntu-youth team we try to make it easier for youths like us to start contribute to ubuntu
<serfus> we are acting as a social place for the younger crowd
<serfus> and currently, we are starting a mentoring project
<iulian> Oh ubuntu-youth.  How is it doing?  There used to be a channel called #ubuntu-youth if I recall correctly.  Is it still active?
<serfus> iulian, you are right. the project has died and revived a couple of times
<serfus> we are getting it moving again
<iulian> Alrighty.  Sounds like a nice plan indeed.
<serfus> i think we did well with getting the youths around, now we need to move froward and get more productive
<serfus> besides from being elected as the PoC of the Israeli loco, i am acting as sort of the leader
<highvoltage> I'd like to see more about the ubuntu-youth team on the fridge and in general ubuntu news
<popey> i have no questions
<czajkowski> I have no further questions.
 * ogra_ neither
<highvoltage> but I also have no further questions
<serfus> highvoltage, will do :-)
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the membership of serfus. ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the membership of serfus. ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<czajkowski> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<stgraber> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<ogra_> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from ogra_. 0 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
<popey> +0 I'd like to see a longer period of activity before a plus one. I would say come back in 3 months.
<MootBot> Abstention received from popey. 0 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0
<iulian> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from iulian. 0 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 0
<highvoltage> (one moment)
<highvoltage> +0 [ good involvement, but need to see a bit more depth with contributions ]
<MootBot> Abstention received from highvoltage. 0 for, 0 against. 6 have abstained. Count is now 0
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 0 against. 6 abstained. Total: 0
<popey> serfus: keep contributing! would love to see you come back to us in a few months!
<czajkowski> serfus: at this time you've not been sucessful, please do come back but with more work documented.
<czajkowski> keep up the good work
<czajkowski> [topic] UndiFineD
<highvoltage> serfus: I was very tempted to give you a +1, but I think you just need to keep doing good things for a bit more, and be slightly more specific about your contributions on your wiki page
<MootBot> New Topic:  UndiFineD
<serfus> okay, thanks folks
<UndiFineD> hey hello everyone
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UndiFineD
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UndiFineD
<highvoltage> serfus: and thanks for your good work so far!
<RawChid> \o/
<Ronnie> \o/
<ogra_> geez, thats a lot of testimonials
<czajkowski> UndiFineD: you're up next,
<UndiFineD> I am back again after 6 months like you told me to
<Thomas_de_Graaff> \o/
<hajour_> \o/
<highvoltage> what is iana-etc?
<popey> lots of very nice testimonials there
<UndiFineD> I am not an etc
<UndiFineD> it is in /etc
<UndiFineD> and handles mime types
<czajkowski> that's an impressive wiki
<UndiFineD> yeah wiki work I do that a lot
<czajkowski> UndiFineD: what have you found to be any barriers to your work in Ubuntu ?
<highvoltage> yeah with testimonials from udienz, cprofitt, AlanBell, charlie-tca__ and Pendulum I'm fine on going on testimonials alone here
<UndiFineD> hmmm, not many just finding people and knowledge
<hajour_> mm i not new or i  was allowed to set a testimonial .because i am his girlfriend.but of the record he have helped a real lot whit speechcontrol
<popey> I have no questions.
<nikyr0x> UndiFineD, why you use Windows 7 with KDE?
<czajkowski> ogra_: stgraber iulian any questions ?
<stgraber> nope
 * charlie-tca__ just wanted to say UndiFineD has done really good work with accessibility and beginners team both. We look forward to continuing to work with him.
<ogra_> none at all
<Pendulum> I definitely support him based on his work with accessibility :)
<UndiFineD> I dont understand nikyr0x comment I have now win7 nor kde
<popey> thanks charlie-tca__ hajour_ Thomas_de_Graaff Ronnie RawChid and Pendulum for your cheers
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the membership of UndiFineD . ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the membership of UndiFineD . ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<AlanBell> o/ UndiFineD
<iulian> czajkowski: No questions from me.
<highvoltage> +1 [ great feedback from well-known community members who have worked with him ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<iulian> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from iulian. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<czajkowski> +1 easy well done :)
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<ogra_> +1
 * czajkowski prods ogra_ 
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<czajkowski> UndiFineD: well done and welcome
<barrydrake> Congratulations!!!
<charlie-tca__> Congratulations, UndiFineD! You earned it.
<Pendulum> UndiFineD: congrats!
 * popey adds UndiFineD to ~ubuntumembers
<iulian> Welcome UndiFineD.
<UndiFineD> Thanks to all whom I work with !
<Ronnie> |o|
<highvoltage> UndiFineD: congratulations and welcome
<rafaellaguna> great, UndiFineD! I'm happy for this
<paultag> 'grats UndiFineD !
<Thomas_de_Graaff> Gefeliciteerd!
<czajkowski> [topic] barrydrake
<hajour_> congratulations UndiFineD
<MootBot> New Topic:  barrydrake
<JFo> cheers UndiFineD
<head_victim> wd UndiFineD
<barrydrake> Hi guys
<popey> nice one UndiFineD, keep up the great work
<highvoltage> hey there barrydrake
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/b-drake
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/b-drake
<highvoltage> barrydrake: is that you in the photo?
<barrydrake> Yep
<czajkowski> barrydrake: aloha and welcome, can you tell us about yourself
<barrydrake> not a lot other than I've put in the wiki and profile
<barrydrake> just to say that I'm passionate about Ubuntu
<czajkowski> barrydrake: so how did you get involved in Ubuntu ?
<popey> I have no questions.
<barrydrake> Started using it for everything about a year ago, and began to get involved.  Love working on Ubuntu Adverts
<UndiFineD> Ubuntu-Adverts would not be where it is today without barry
<rafaellaguna> Fully agree
<rafaellaguna> Not only graphically, but organizing the people
<highvoltage> barrydrake: I'm sorry to admit, but I've never heard or the ubuntu-adverts team before reading your wiki page. Could you tell me a bit more about it?
<barrydrake> Yes - it's a fairly new team but we are all determined to tell the world (some of it anyway) about Ubuntu
<UndiFineD> it is like a revival of the dead marketing team
<barrydrake> highvoltage - hey - come join us and find out for yourself
<czajkowski> ogra_: stgraber highvoltage iulian popey any questions ?
<highvoltage> I'm good czajkowski
<popey> 21:42:38 < popey> I have no questions.
<stgraber> nope, was just looking at the very very long list of ubuntu-advertising team members on LP :)
 * ogra_ neither
<iulian> Sorry, I was reading some of the ubuntu-adverts meeting logs.
<iulian> No questions.
<stgraber> 136 members, that's a lot of people
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the membership of barrydrake . ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the membership of barrydrake . ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra_> stgraber, for a team that successfully hides from highvoltage !
<highvoltage> heh
<popey> -1 - I appreciate the work you do in UK and -adverts, but I'd like to see a more significant sustained set of work to measure, maybe in 3 months or so.
<MootBot> -1 received from popey. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<iulian> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from iulian. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<ogra_> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from ogra_. 0 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
<stgraber> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 0 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -1
<czajkowski> -1 I'd like to see you come back in a few more months time with more work documented.
<MootBot> -1 received from czajkowski. 0 for, 2 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -2
<highvoltage> +0 [ good work and half-way there, just need to work on the 'sustained' part ]
<MootBot> Abstention received from highvoltage. 0 for, 2 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -2
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 2 against. 4 abstained. Total: -2
<czajkowski> barrydrake: at this time you've been unsucessful, please do come back again though
<barrydrake> That's OK - I'll come back in a while - thanks
<popey> thanks barrydrake !
<czajkowski> [topic] Claudinux
<MootBot> New Topic:  Claudinux
<Claudinux> hi there
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClaudioArseni
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClaudioArseni
<czajkowski> Claudinux: aloha
<Claudinux> hi czajkowski
<popey> nice testimonials there, from Luca and Paolo
<Claudinux> popey,  :-)
<czajkowski> nice page :)
<Claudinux> thank you czajkowski
<czajkowski> Claudinux: how did you get involved in the Ubuntu it loco ?
<popey> https://translations.launchpad.net/~claudio.arseni/+activity  nice chunk of translations there
<highvoltage> Claudinux: what does the italian testing team do? iso testing and stuff with the QA team?
<Claudinux> czajkowski, ezpaecially in translations
<popey> highvoltage: I've met the guys from the italian testing team at UDS, they do amazing work.
<Claudinux> highvoltage, yes
<czajkowski> I've no more questions
<popey> http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/GruppoTest
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/GruppoTest
<charlie-tca__> Italian testing team does track most of the laptop testing, I believe.
<highvoltage> No further questions
<Claudinux> yes charlie-tca__ it's true
<popey> http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/GruppoTest/Casi/Svolti   <--
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/GruppoTest/Casi/Svolti   <--
<popey> i have no further questions
 * iulian has no questions.
 * ogra_ has no questions either
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the membership of Claudinux. ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the membership of Claudinux. ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<czajkowski> +1 EXCELLENT WORK
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<highvoltage> +1 [ doing much-needed testing, translations and otherwise LoCo involvement ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<popey> +1 for great translations and awesome work with ISO testing!
<ogra_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<iulian> +1 great work!
<MootBot> +1 received from iulian. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<stgraber> +1 It's for QA, translations and loco involvment
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<popey> \o/ nice one Claudinux
<Claudinux> uh, thanks all
<czajkowski> Claudinux: welcome aboard!
<Claudinux> :-D
<charlie-tca__> Congratulations, Claudinux. Keep up the great work!
 * warp10 hugs Claudinux
<highvoltage> congratulations and welcome Claudinux
<czajkowski> [topic] aquarius
<MootBot> New Topic:  aquarius
 * popey adds Claudinux to ~ubuntumembers
<iulian> Congratulations Claudinux and welcome aboard.
<warp10> Claudinux: Bella zio! \o/
<popey> time is running out
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StuartLangridge
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StuartLangridge
<Claudinux> warp10, \o/
<JFo> \o/ I didn't have the time necessary to give aquarius a proper recommendation, but I'd like to heartily endorse his candidacy here. :-)
<popey> CC meeting coming up, no time for this aquarius chancer
<popey> ;)
<czajkowski> lol
<Claudinux> thanks folks :-)
<czajkowski> aquarius: up fast
<JFo> congrats Claudinux
<cjwatson> reload aquarius' page; I just added another late-breaking testimonial :-)
<czajkowski> aquarius: oi oi
<Claudinux> thanks JFo
<JFo> ah hah! you had it locked cjwatson ;-)
<aquarius> Hi, I'm Stuart, and I'm in the UK. I've been an Ubuntu user since the first warty release, and I've frequently given talks about Ubuntu and cool things that can be done with it, as well as hacking myself!
<aquarius> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StuartLangridge lists some talks that I gave for Ubuntu-specific developer weeks and open weeks about rhythmbox, desktopcouch, and other things)
<popey> I have no questions for aquarius
<Pendulum> cjwatson: because he didn't already have enough awesome testimonials? ;-)
<aquarius> thanks JFo and cjwatson ;)
<ogra_> wow, so many cheerleaders here
<iulian> No questions from me either.  Ready to vote.
<cjwatson> I've rarely found additional ones to hurt
<aquarius> kenvandine is also prepared to testify, I believe, if required
 * stgraber is ready to vote
<JFo> very welcome aquarius
 * kenvandine can't say enough cool stuff about aquarius
<czajkowski> I think based on the testimonials and the cheering folks here, I've no questions.
 * popey is ready to vote
 * ogra_ is ready to vote 
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the membership of aquarius . ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the membership of aquarius . ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<ogra_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<czajkowski> +1 EXCELLENT WORK
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<iulian> +1 definitely
<MootBot> +1 received from iulian. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<highvoltage> I didn't even have a chance to finish typing my questions, I'm abstaining
<highvoltage> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from highvoltage. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
<czajkowski> aquarius: well done and welcome aboard
<charlie-tca__> Congratulations, aquarius
<Pendulum> aquarius: congrats!
<ogra_> congrats aquarius
<iulian> Congrats aquarius.
<JFo> congrats aquarius !!
<JFo> \o\  /o/  \o\  /o/
<popey> sorry highvoltage
<aquarius> highvoltage, I'm happy to have a private conversation to help fill in some details?
<czajkowski> popey: do we have time for the last one or is the CC ready to go this second ?
<highvoltage> aquarius: congratulations and welcome anyway :)
<aquarius> You are all most kind. Thank you. I hope I do you justice.
<kenvandine> aquarius, thanks for being awesome, proud to have you as a member :)
 * popey adds an extra ginger to ~ubuntumembers
<aquarius> :-)
<m4n1sh> aquarius: congrats!
<iulian> Heh.
<popey> czajkowski: go for it
<sabdfl> congrats aquarius
<czajkowski> [topic] TeTeT
<MootBot> New Topic:  TeTeT
<jderose> woot! aquarius!
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TorstenSpindler
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TorstenSpindler
<aquarius> thanks, sabdfl, jderose, m4n1sh. I appreciate your support :)
<sabdfl> i just showed up in time for the applause :-)
<TeTeT> Hi all, unlike my well prepared colleague aquarius I don't have any fancy testimonials on my wiki page
<JFo> sabdfl, better late than never ;)
<sabdfl> a familiar refrain :-)
<JFo> indeed
<highvoltage> TeTeT: what's your Launchpad ID?
<czajkowski> TeTeT: so can you tell us a bit about your work please?
<TeTeT> I added myself late to the EMEA wiki as I intended to apply during the Asian meeting, but there was noone there this morning
<JFo> usually said to me though :-P
<popey> TeTeT: if you want to postpone and come back at the next meeting when you have more testimonials, we'd be happy with that :D
<czajkowski> TeTeT: sorry about that, welcome to our meeting :)n
<TeTeT> highvoltage: tspindler
<iulian> highvoltage: https://launchpad.net/~tspindler
<TeTeT> I support Ubuntu since 2006 and work for Canonical since then
<popey> I am aware of TeTeT's work, so have no questions.
 * ogra_ knows TeTeT since years and also knows his countelss hours he put into promoting ubuntu professionally
<TeTeT> I filed quite a number of bugs, triaged some (mostly apt related lately) and fixed a few
<ogra_> no questions from me
<nikyr0x> TeTeT: What do you think about this new Windows 8's ribbon thing?
<TeTeT> for the community the biggest chunk was probably the ubuntu desktop course
<TeTeT> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-desktop-course
<TeTeT> nikyr0x: I don't know anything about it I fear
<TeTeT> but as the desktop course is based on 8.04, it's a bit old by now
<highvoltage> TeTeT: do you do any Ubuntu work outside of what's part of your Canonical job?
<TeTeT> so I moved on to the new big things and UEC
<czajkowski> stgraber: iulian comments?
<TeTeT> highvoltage: yes, I do a fair bit of apt bug triaging during weekends
<stgraber> nope
<iulian> No, good to go.
<TeTeT> also I tend to work on UEC stuff like the uec scheduler for testing, https://code.launchpad.net/~tspindler/junk/uec-scheduler
<TeTeT> and with smoser we recently started uec persistency, which I presented during the ubuntu cloud days
<highvoltage> I have no other questions
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the membership of TeTeT. ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the membership of TeTeT. ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<iulian> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from iulian. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<czajkowski> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 2
<highvoltage> +1 [ Training, support and bug triagins efforts ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 3 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 3
<czajkowski> hmm we have a tie
<popey> hrm.
<czajkowski> and we're missing drubin
<highvoltage> that's not a tie, that's a+3
<highvoltage> a +3, even
<ogra_> yeah
<czajkowski> we need a 3 +1 as we now have 7 on the board.
<IdleOne> I motion for sabdfl to be a deciding vote
<ogra_> heh
<popey> hah
<popey> was wondering who would be first to suggest that :)
 * highvoltage looks up our charter just to be sure if we have something written about this
<sabdfl> well
<iulian> Hmm.
<IdleOne> don't know if that is allowed or not but seems like a good idea to me
<sabdfl> torsten has done a huge amount of amazing work getting ubuntu to star in some surprising places
<ogra_> ++
<popey> let down by a hastily prepped wiki page?
<sabdfl> we are very clear with canonical folks, that they should aspire to ubuntu membership, but it's about participation and contribution to ubuntu, not canonical
<TeTeT> if you need an updated wiki page I can come back in a month or two and try again, no big issue for me
<sabdfl> in this case, i would happily +1 TeTeT, but i think if he came back with a better wiki page documenting what he's already done
<sabdfl> it wouldn't need a bdfl
<popey> great
<sabdfl> TeTeT: that ok by you?
<highvoltage> sabdfl: so would that be a +1 or +0 from you?
<stgraber> If it was possible I'd have voted +0.5 because of the wiki page, I'm fine switching it to a +1 if that helps
<popey> i dont think sabdfl is suggesting he votes
<sabdfl> definitely +1 but i think TeTeT might want to come back and take care of this himself?
<popey> TeTeT has offered to edit the page, come back next month, should be a breeze.
<TeTeT> sabdfl: fine for me
<popey> sounds like a plan to me
<highvoltage> ok, that sounds good
<czajkowski> I think if he comes back with a more detailed wiki page with testiminoals like other wiki pages I'd change my vote
<sabdfl> awesome, and from me, thanks for all you've done
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 3
<sabdfl> majic!
<TeTeT> fair enough, thanks
<popey> we have one last late entrant
<czajkowski> TeTeT: please do come back again with testimonals on your wiki page :)
<TeTeT> sabdfl: thanks :)
<popey> who arrived on the list because the AsiaPac board failed to meet
 * iulian refreshes the page.
 * head_victim did
<popey> I realise we're already eating into cc time, can we still continue?
<czajkowski> popey: sabdfl do we have time for one last one ??
<head_victim> Sorry for that :/ Wasn't sure I'd be awake in time for this meeting so only added at last minute.
 * sabdfl checks the CC agenda
<popey> mind the tumbleweed
<sabdfl> go for it :-)
<czajkowski> [topic] head_victim
<MootBot> New Topic:  head_victim
<pleia2> the agenda hasn't been updated with the items dholbach suggested this morning
<paultag> o/
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris
<head_victim> Thank you for considering me
<highvoltage> head_victim: I find your local self-supported shipit interesting, how did you do it?
<czajkowski> head_victim: aloha care to tell us about yourself
<ogra_> wow, a local shipit !
<popey> pleia2: do you have a moment to add them as we deal with head_victim ?
<head_victim> highvoltage: posted burnt copies to people free of charge.
<pleia2> popey: working through the list now
<popey> thanks pleia2
<head_victim> I asked for volunteers to help post and I ask for recipients to request them.
<highvoltage> head_victim: there's more responsibilies on loco teams now for distributing CD's, so it would be great if you could share information about it
<czajkowski> impressive wiki page and lots of testimonials :D
<head_victim> highvoltage: I lined up people and organised it that way so the cost of postage wasn't all on one persons head
<iulian> Hm, indeed.
<paultag> I cheer for head_victim -- I'd like to advocate head_victim in every way I can. I feel that he is everything and Ubuntu Member should be, and really raises the bar in a way I don't often see. head_victim is outstandingly nice and overly helpful. His work in the Ubuntu Beginners Team is commendable, and very consistent. I have zero qualms with changing head_victim's email in my contact book to @ubuntu.com, that's for sure. Please consider his
<head_victim> I'm a wiki nerd sorry.
<popey> thanks paultag !
<paultag> providing he posts up some info about the AU CD program, of course :)
<czajkowski> head_victim: no it's great!
<czajkowski> I've no questions, all the info is there :D
<ogra_> ++
<head_victim> I try to be prepared for all occasions.
 * charlie-tca__ will say head_victim has done outstanding helping new people in #ubuntu-beginners and working on the wiki. 
<highvoltage> paultag: :)
 * stgraber is ready
<highvoltage> I have no further questions
<highvoltage> (and my lift is poking me)
 * iulian is ready to vote too.
 * popey is ready
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the membership of head_victim . ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the membership of head_victim . ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<czajkowski> +1 EASY
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<head_victim> I'm more than happy to be contacted for details on a local shipit from anyone wanting more details.
<iulian> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from iulian. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<czajkowski> well done and welcome aboard
<highvoltage> +1 [ great work and very good feedback from everyone he has worked with ]
<popey> +1 awesome work and great testimonials. keep it up, and I want to see blog posts about the CD program on planet Ubuntu!
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<paultag> Thank ya'll so much for adding in head_victim to the docket so late :)
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<head_victim> czajkowski: thank you, next approval I'm hoping to get is for the loco
<ogra_> paultag, thank the CC
<highvoltage> head_victim: congratulations and welcome
<paultag> 'grats head_victim :)
<charlie-tca__> Congratulations, head_victim. Keep up the great work for the community!
<czajkowski> head_victim: thanks well done !
<iulian> Congratulations head_victim.
<UndiFineD> congratualtions head_victim
<paultag> ogra_: truth :)
<head_victim> Thank you all, sorry for the late notice
<czajkowski> [endmeeting]
<czajkowski> grrrr
<czajkowski> one day I'll remember!
<iulian> :)
 * popey adds head_victim to ~ubuntumembers
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:15.
<popey> \o/
<highvoltage> and thanks for the CC for letting us step into their time
<ogra_> yeah
<popey> thanks everyone!
<paultag> thanks CC :)
<highvoltage> s/for the CC/to the CC/g
<iulian> Yup, appreciate it.
<sabdfl> well done all
<czajkowski> thank you to all that came! and the CC for being patient
<Pendulum> head_victim: congrats!
<czajkowski> not I'm going to have my dinner!
<czajkowski> *now
<hajour> wel deserved head_victim  you have helped me also often
<hajour> sorry was a moment away
<popey> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:16. The chair is popey.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<popey> Who's here for the CC meeting?
 * JFo lurks
<popey> I hear Technoviking is on flaky wifi
<sabdfl> o/
<pleia2> o/
<pleia2> work is going to drag me off in a few minutes though
<Technoviking> I'm on ethernet now, should be good
<popey> we're missing dholbach, mako, persia, mdke
<popey> [TOPIC] Governance Boards (staffing, feedback/reports)
<sabdfl> ethernet. sounds like medication ;-)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Governance Boards (staffing, feedback/reports)
<popey> over to you pleia2
<pleia2> so the first concern is the low number of nominees for our latest restaffing call for the regional boards
<pleia2> any thoughts on how we can improve this? (anyone can reply, we need ideas!)
<popey> press gang people into doing it
<pleia2> currently it's announced to a few mailing lists and posted to ubuntu-news
<pleia2> hehe
<czajkowski> perhaps more info on what board people do? what it entails, kinda like a mini interview and get it translated
<ajmitch> popey: that certainly won't help with getting quorum for meetings :)
<popey> make it an obligation of membership :)
<czajkowski> I got a few pms asking what was needed and the times it is on at
<pleia2> for reference, this is what our last call looked like: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news-team/2011-January/001245.html
<paultag> I think encouraging "younger" ubuntu members to apply for these spots, a lot of people are fearful of applying to something they can full well handle
<paultag> it's tough to keep picking from the oldest few percent
<ajmitch> some of it will be due to people unsure if they can commit to a time for ~2 years
<pleia2> czajkowski: suggestions on what to add to such an announcement are quite welcome (it includes time and obligations, filling in what is missing would be great)
<czajkowski> pleia2: time is a big issue, and perhaps it should be noted, that the time slot could be changed as well in order to get more people to take part.
<sabdfl> it's true, the equivalent responsibility fell on very young shoulders the first years of the project, there's only a requirement for good judgement and a commitment to the project, matched with a willingness to say know when it doesn't feel right
<sabdfl> should we consider splitting the timezones differently?
<popey> I still think we should have one board
<popey> and replace people who don't turn up
<pleia2> I think both the EMEA and Americas boards do ok time zone wise, I think APAC is a problem because it covers half the world
<czajkowski> I'm for replacing pepole who dont turn up
<czajkowski> but not one board
<pleia2> I suggested to dholbach that we have a session to discuss this at UDS
<popey> if we can't find enough people to staff the three boards we currently have, I can't see us finding enough people to staff more boards (assuming APAC was split)
<popey> maybe we should give up on doing this over irc?
<pleia2> we've tried doing this over mailing list and that thread got long and didn't go anywhere
<UndiFineD> is this an invitation to apply ?
<pleia2> oh, I mean this discussion :)
<czajkowski> pleia2: we;ve found doing it via a bug for the LC re approvals and them making it public after it
<czajkowski> so we can poke people to vote and hurry up
<pleia2> czajkowski: I hadn't even thought about that
<ajmitch> mailing list decisions need to have a defined time - saying that there will be a vote X days after an application is submitted
<Pendulum> the bug idea is interesting
<popey> would it not be easier to have people just fill in a google form, and each of the board members reads at their leisure and ticks the boxes.
<Pendulum> I do think anything on a mailing list or not on IRC needs a time-frame
<czajkowski> pleia2: IRC doesn';t always work, but a bug does and you can track it and then kick people to go vote when they need to do so
<pleia2> czajkowski: *nod*
<sabdfl> UndiFineD: no, we're trying to understand how to shape this, not seeking applicants right now, but an email to the cc would be appreciated!
<czajkowski> why not try it with one board as a test case and see how it goes?>
<head_victim> As a *very* recent applicant the bug idea sounds great to me.
<paultag> +1 to bugs, the LC uses it really well
<paultag> I have the code in lp:locolint
<sabdfl> what about contentious cases?
<sabdfl> if we're brainstorming, what about a SAAS solution like Taleo
<popey> do we have many of those?
<sabdfl> we use it for hiring, but essentially, it supports a gated interview / review / decision process
<sabdfl> it's SAAS and not afaik FLOSS
<sabdfl> but it might work very well, and serve as an inspiration to someone to knock up a FLOSS version
<czajkowski> sabdfl: we open all the LC bugs after we;ve voted just keep ir private so we can poke the others to vote and hurry people up
<sabdfl> right, but if you're going to open it up, you can't speak very frankly about downsides to the application
<sabdfl> i suppose IRC has the same issue :-)
<paultag> sabdfl: it's no different then IRC
<paultag> aye :)
<czajkowski> exactly
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me
<ajmitch> irc is quite public at the moment, so closing it may not be a good idea
<czajkowski> and everyone is respectful either way on irc or on a bug
<popey> i dont mind what tool is used, just something less synchronous
<sabdfl> can we agree to try it?
<popey> something easy to use that people don't feel is too onerous would be good
<popey> something where people can fill in answers to specific questions we always ask might be beneficial
<sabdfl> is this a proposal for APAC specifically, because of TZ's, if it works we could encourage other DMB's to do so?
<pleia2> yeah
<sabdfl> +1
<Technoviking> I fine with trying this idea, +1
<sabdfl> again :-)
<pleia2> ok, maybe we brainstorm this more, bring it to the councils list and revisit at the next meeting?
<ajmitch> with that, you wouldn't need to have people from the APAC region on the board
<czajkowski> if you like the EMEA can be a test board...
<czajkowski> and we can report next month ?
<popey> yup
<popey> sorry, I appear to be lagging
<pleia2> EMEA as test board sounds good
<czajkowski> if you like I cna blog about this tomorrow and explain what wil happen to next months meeting and then we can re blog and let people know again closer to the time
<popey> czajkowski: hold off the blogging until we have talked to the rmb about it :)
<czajkowski> okie dokie
<pleia2> the other portion of this regional boards this is feedback/reports, popey brought up a concern about boards having different standards and it was suggested to go back to reporting a list of new members to -news and -CC (Dev board and Americas still do this, but the other RMBs don't) so there is further review by more eyes than those who just watch lp additoins to ~ubuntumembers
<popey> +1
<pleia2> plus it gets their names in UWN :) (once UWN comes back...)
<pleia2> their == new members
<paultag> I loved having my name in UWN way back then :)
<popey> we (EMEA) can certainly start doing that.
<ajmitch> oh, for the days when new developers were announced to ubuntu-devel :)
<pleia2> Americas also copies the emails we send out to the monthly TeamReports, so it shows up there too along other councils
<popey> ok, so is that two agreed items for EMEA? trialling bugs for membership, and sending out notifications of new members?
<pleia2> that's all from me (and I need to run back to work anyway :))
<sabdfl> if we use an async mechanism, do we need tz-specific RMB's?
<popey> well, exactly
<pleia2> probably not
<ajmitch> no, though I think there'd be some time trialling it before you merge them all into one
<sabdfl> ok, sounds like a rough guide, let's trial it and see
<sabdfl> that a wrap?
<popey> Anyone got anything else?
<popey> (I dont)
<popey> ok, lets end it there then.
<popey> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:40.
<Technoviking> thanks all
<popey> thanks!
<sabdfl> phew
<sabdfl> thanks all
<sabdfl> CC, i think we should setup a phone call
<sabdfl> we have a lot to discuss, and it's been a very long time since we spoke by voice
<pleia2> I'm on vacation 8-16, but otherwise my schedule is pretty flexible for a call
<sabdfl> ok, i'll send out a mail
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-06
<duanedesign> Claudinux: /5
<duanedesign> oops
<robbiew> o/
<mvo> hello
<cjwatson> o/
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<doko> hi
<jhunt_> hi
<barry> hi
<stgraber> hi
<robbiew> welcome stgraber :)
<stgraber> thanks!
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<ev> hi
<robbiew> stgraber? ...just kidding
<robbiew> mvo?
<mvo> yeah
<mvo> its a bit long today
<mvo> beta1: App-install-data-commercial update, apt-ddtp update, upgrade testing
<mvo> Apt-clone: add apt-clone info, add apt::architecture to the archive, add missing recommend on dpkg-repack, call fakeroot the right way, fix crash in the installer (thanks ev!), cleanup in the state file writing, more tests
<mvo> Aptdaemon: push lp:~mvo/aptdaemon/fix-724735
<mvo> Auto-upgrade-tester: deploy python-import post-upgrade fix, review auto-upgrade-tester results
<mvo> Debdelta: discuss index and SoC with debdelta upstream
<mvo> piston-mini-client: add fix for the "filename too long" bug with ecryptfs (lp:~mvo/piston-mini-client/fix-ioerror-bug-on-cryptfs/)
<mvo> Python-apt: merge fix from bary lp:~barry/ubuntu/natty/python-apt/bug-711225 in
<mvo> to ubuntu and debian branches (thanks! that fix was great work)
<mvo> Sessioninstaller: fix #713984, merge lp:~gilir/sessioninstaller/defer-migration/+merge/46346 and upload new version
<mvo> Software-cener: switch rnr-server from staging -> production and upload new version (yeah!), branch merges (nice work from gary, kiwinote, stgraber, mmcg069!), cleanup cruft from tests, work on by-something fixes (##708372), misc fixes
<mvo> Squid-deb-proxy: maverick sru to fix missing extras.ubuntu.com
<mvo> Update-manager: add workaroudn for #745396, backport fixes for #744990 and push SRU, work on EOL handling (#671016), fixes in the cdrom upgrade code, add native python ed implementation for the "patch critical stuff before upgrade" feature (strange as it sounds, a minimal server may not have ed/patch installed)
<mvo> Update-notifier: merge patch from till (#734822) (with minior modifications)
<mvo> upgrades: fix bind9 .dpkg-dist leftover, forward fix to debian, some manual testing
<ev> mvo: did you happen to see my merge proposal?
<mvo> ev: no, let me have a look now
<ev> thanks!
<mvo> hrm, hrm, LP did not send me a mail about it it seems
<ev> weird, I've specifically marked you as a reviewer
<mvo> ev: looks great from first glance
<mvo> ev: i have a more detailed look after the meeting
<ev> cool, thanks
<robbiew> thnx mvo
<robbiew> and with that exchange...ev?
<ev> swing back around?
<ev> sorry, got caught in a privmsg
<robbiew> uh huh
<robbiew> maybe I should schedule this meeting every week...at the same time...and send invites
<robbiew> oh wait
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> jhunt_: ?
<jhunt_> Upstart Cookbook updates. Finally resolved the chroot session bug in
<jhunt_> Upstart (final testing in progress...). Updated Oneiric planning
<jhunt_> page with Upstart+generic ideas.
<jhunt_> EOT
<ev> robbiew: pish tosh
<robbiew> jhunt_: thnx
<robbiew> barry?
<barry> bug 747590 (virtualenv stops working after natty upgrade); bug 747225 (albatross ftbfs); bug 150667 (update-manager); patch piloted; natty upgrade; gsoc 2011 proposals; python issues: 11677 (test performance on ecryptfs), 11715 (build from source on multiarch), pep 396 (module version numbers).  done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 747590 in python-defaults (Ubuntu) "After upgrading to narwal virtualenv has ceased to work" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747590
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 747225 in albatross (Ubuntu) "ftbfs with python2.7" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747225
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 150667 could not be found
<barry> hmm, i guess 150667 isn't the right bug number ;)
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> thnx barry
<robbiew> psurbhi: ?
<psurbhi> *) wrote and modified some scripts to create a fstab for initramfs and overwrite it with user requested options. also added small scripts for invoking local/nfs scripts as jobs.
<psurbhi> *) Finally, arranged all the scripts in the initramfs-tools package. Compiled the first event based initramfs-tools package: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~csurbhi/initramfs-tools/event-driven.rough. This is really a rough version as the name says - tested on mdadm,lvm configuration on qemu.
<psurbhi> *) wrote dbus communication program for cryptsetup scripts to indicate to stop the mountall timer
<psurbhi> *) worked on bug 665185
<psurbhi> *) writing a document explaining the current initramfs scripts
<psurbhi> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 665185 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Lucid) "/etc/init.d/sendsigs fails to kill some processes" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/665185
<robbiew> psurbhi: nice!  thnx
<robbiew> doko?
<doko> finally test rebuild crawling ...  see http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110329-natty.html
<doko> maybe revert ld --no-add-needed for the release?
<doko> "final" openjdk and toolchain uploads
<doko> preparing gcc-4.6 test rebuild
<doko> done
<robbiew> thx doko
<robbiew> cjwatson: ?
<cjwatson> Done:
<cjwatson>  - Patch pilot afternoon (Tuesday).
<cjwatson>  - Spent nearly all the rest of the time doing very very slow bootloader debugging of one kind or another, and I'm now about twice as familiar with weird bits of gdb as I was last week.  I've fixed several serious Wubi bugs (bug 742967, bug 610898 on its way, and others), which should be SRUable; and determined that bug 747090 is actually a kvm bug.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 742967 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "Wubi grub prompt on install" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/742967
<cjwatson>  - Fixed one of the outstanding installer keyboard bugs (bug 730576) and a partitioning crash (bug 746408).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610898 in lupin (Ubuntu Natty) "grub-pc upgrade renders computer unbootable when Wubi is installed to partition other than Windows" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610898
<cjwatson>  - Pushed the grub2 multipath SRU a bit further up the hill.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 747090 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Natty) "wrong return address sometimes pushed for INT in kvm (not qemu)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747090
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 730576 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "wrong encoding in keyboard country and layout lists" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/730576
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746408 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) ""Erase entire disk..." crashes in CJK install with Korean language" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746408
<cjwatson> To do before beta freeze:
<cjwatson>  - Figure out what's wrong with iSCSI.
<cjwatson>  - Sort out some more installer keyboard bugs.
<cjwatson>  - I don't think I'll have time for much else before beta freeze.  Shout if there's something I need to squeeze in.
<cjwatson> --
<robbiew> cjwatson: impressive bug work as usual...thank you sir!
<robbiew> and now...
<robbiew> without further adieu...
<robbiew> ev!!!
<robbiew> :P
<ev> done: bug fixes! Spent a fair amount of time on bug 739489.Fixed the import script for the geonames project, reviewing branches from mterry to fix geonames issues.  Fixed the wording for the upgrade option after conferring with mpt and cjwatson.  Still digging at 746758.  Tried to sort out Natty on a new web team hire's MacBook Air, failed miserably.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 739489 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "upgrade/reinstall option overwrites apt-setup generated sources.list (no extras.ubuntu.com)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/739489
<ev> probably more, my lp-fu is failing today
<ev> (done)
<robbiew> thnx ev
<barry> ev: what's the issue w/natty on mba?
<robbiew> stgraber: anything to report? :)
<stgraber> Started working in the Foundations team, trying to get used to everything. Fixed udev packaging bug 745011. Fixed FTBFS of libssh (missing latex build-dep). Worked on awstrial/weblive.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745011 in udev (Ubuntu) ""info: unrecognized option '--convert-db'" on upgrade" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745011
<ev> barry: hangs coming out of rEFIt
<robbiew> stgraber: that's it?...slacker!
<robbiew> (j/k) :P
<stgraber> heh :)
<robbiew> thnx stgraber
<mvo> thanks for the udev one!
<ev> not sure if it's syslinux or the legacy MBR stuff
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty Bug Fixing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Bug Fixing
<barry> ev: interesting.  perhaps talk more after meeting?  i'll do an update on my other mbp as it runs natty natively (seems to work fine these days)
<ev> barry: yeah, I've tried to reproduce it on mine but I seem to be hitting a different bug (if there's nothing in the legacy MBR, it falls over in a big heap with "no OS found" instead of moving on to the USB key
<ev> but sure
<cjwatson> for bugs, I've got these three URLs open in my browser at the moment:
<cjwatson>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs?field.milestone=33574 (beta-1)
<cjwatson>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs?field.milestone=38691 (beta-2)
<cjwatson>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs?field.milestone=33569 (final)
<robbiew> any OMG Kitten Killers I or anyone else should be aware of?
<cjwatson> apparently GRUB is still broken on RAID despite my previous efforts, so needs another look (bug 743136)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 743136 in grub2 (Ubuntu Natty) "grub2 fails to install on md0 " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/743136
<cjwatson> anyone distressed about any other ones?
<ev> I've got lots of bugs I'm distressed about, but they're all being tracked in natty
<ev> :-P
<cjwatson> heh
<ev> 746758 in particular
<doko> I didn't milestone the build failures yet
<cjwatson> doko: if you're going to, please do it soon so that we have time before beta freeze
<doko> cjwatson: will try, once the rebuild is finished (hopefully tomorrow)
<doko> is there a script to milestone existing reports?
<doko> i386 rebuild currently at letter s
<cjwatson> if you can get hold of each bug_task in the API, you can set .milestone on it and then .lp_save()
<cjwatson> should be fairly easy to do interactively in lp-shell
<robbiew> okie dokie
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Oneiric Planning
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Planning
<robbiew> I've been tracking the updates to the wiki
<robbiew> and the emails to ubuntu-devel
<robbiew> We'll have more inputs from Canonical OEM Partners, Desktop, and Server
<robbiew> I'll gather all that and organize it
<robbiew> hopefully have a complete list for review late next week
<doko> is python3 on that list?
<robbiew> I dunno...but feel free to put it there
<robbiew> it's a wiki ;)
<robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning
<doko> barry: ^^^ ;)
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> psurbhi: was in discussion with OEM Server Engineering team, and it looks like there may be a need for some work around multipath I/O
<barry> just need to repurpose https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-foundations-n-python-versions to oneiric.  will do
<robbiew> we can talk about it next week
<robbiew> e.g. SAN Storage support
<robbiew> barry: yeah, I think I have that listed
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/GoodNews
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/GoodNews
<robbiew> in the AOB  category...peer reviews due this week
<robbiew> by Friday..though I suspect by Sunday works too
<cjwatson> argh
<psurbhi> robbiew, ack
<robbiew> wow..guess that AOB bummed folks out
<mvo> synaptic got (very) basic multiarch support, its quite fun. but sometimes the resolver acts really fun, so careful
<ev> heh
<robbiew> Good News -> stgraber is  now part of Canonical's Foundations team!
<ev> yay
<barry> yay!
<psurbhi> yay! :)
<mvo> !!!
<stgraber> :)
<jhunt_> welcome!
<stgraber> thanks jhunt_
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:35.
<cjwatson> welcome, indeed :-)
<robbiew> thnx all
<jhunt_> cheers
<mvo> thanks
<stgraber> thanks
<barry> thanks!
<ev> thanks
 * jelmer waves
<jelmer> anybody here for the udd meeting?
<jelmer> hi barry
<barry> hi jelmer
<ajmitch> jelmer: sorry, was here, got distracted by work
<barry> i think we're meeting in 23 minutes?
<jelmer> ah
<barry> at least, that's what my calendar is telling me, but who knows with all the dst insanity this time of year ;)
<jelmer> isn't it 21:37 UTC?
<jelmer> this whole daylight savings thing is messing with my mind
 * ajmitch doesn't know, DST just finished here in the weekend
<barry> yowsa.  natty freak out
<barry> tap, tap, tap, can you hear me? :)
<ScottK> barry: You're supposed to be fixing boost ...
<ajmitch> barry: yes, you're still alive
<barry> ScottK: heh
<ScottK> ajmitch: Right.  He didn't actually fix it yet.
 * ajmitch shudders at the mention of boost
<barry> poolie's not here yet, so hopefully we didn't miss him
<barry> natty just freaked out on me a bit
<jelmer> no, he hasn't been here in the last couple of hours
<barry> it is pretty early for him tho.  directory says 0744
<jelmer> I think the meeting was always at 8 AM for him
<jelmer> for me it's now two hours later than last time
<barry> jelmer: me too
<barry> jelmer: but it's still doable for me.  it's getting pretty late for you tho isn't it?
<barry> we'll do a dst sanity check today
<jelmer> barry: it's a quarter to midnight, but I live pretty late anyway (I start work at 10)
<barry> stupid rotating earth
<barry> well, let's get started.  perhaps poolie will show up
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hello everyone and welcome to this week's udd steering meeting
<barry> who's here today?
<jelmer> hi barry
 * slangasek waves
<barry> hi jelmer, slangasek
<ScottK> ~
<jelmer> hi poolie
<barry> hi ScottK, hi poolie
<jelmer> hi Scott
<poolie> hello all
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110406
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110406
<barry> [TOPIC]  * DST resync
<barry>  
<MootBot> New Topic:   * DST resync
<barry> i know the usa went through dst and i think euro too.  the meetings are two hours later for jelmer and i.  not a problem for me, but it's late for jelmer.  still i think it's 8am for poolie so this may be the best we can do
<barry> i just wanted to make sure this time still works for everyone
<poolie> we could try the other way around in my evenings
<jelmer> this works for me, although I know jam goes to bed earlier and it would be nice if he could attend
 * poolie look
<poolie> http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2011&month=4&day=7&hour=11&min=0&sec=0&p1=240&p2=16&p3=263
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2011&month=4&day=7&hour=11&min=0&sec=0&p1=240&p2=16&p3=263
<barry> jelmer: indeed, it would
<poolie> my 9pm is 7am for barry, i think
<poolie> and 1pm for .nl
<poolie> barry, is james_w west of you? and scottk, where are you?
<barry> i could do that.  i get up at 6am to get my son to school anyway and he leaves for the bus at 6:55.  i might only be a minute or so late if the bus is late
<ScottK> It's 6PM here
<ScottK> (now)
<ScottK> Whatever sucks for barry sucks for me too.
<barry> james_w is north of me, so same timezone i think
<barry> ScottK too :)
<barry> ScottK: could you do 7am?
<ScottK> I could.  I would be unlikely to.
<poolie> for that matter i could certainly go an hour earlier
<poolie> which would be 11pm in nl and fr
<ScottK> I have a kid that leaves for school at 6:40, but I usually crash again after she's gone.
<poolie> and 5pm us/eastern
<barry> i'd love to have jam join us
<poolie> ok, let's send mail
<barry> ScottK: i totally get that :)  plus, summer is only 6 weeks away
<ScottK> 5PM is way better than 7AM for me.
<poolie> jam does often get back on after his son is asleep
<barry> poolie: sounds good.  i will do that
<barry> [ACTION] barry to send email about meeting time to mailing list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to send email about meeting time to mailing list
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry>    * poolie to meet with robbiew re lep
<barry>  
<poolie> cancelled, because the lep has been pushed back a bit, until it can be scheduled
<barry> poolie: okay, i'll take this off the list
<barry>    * jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports '''(done?)'''
<barry>  
<barry> i traded some email w/jam about this, he'd like to keep it on the list
<barry> we'll do that at least until he chimes in in person
<barry>    * poolie talk to stakeholders about bfbip scheduling
<barry>  
<poolie> done, and we decided it's not going to push in front of other things
<poolie> so, the bzr team will continue with package imports, speed, and bugs
<barry> poolie: thanks.  i'll take this off the list.
<poolie> and then we'll reconsider that lep when the lp team has some capacity free or when package branches are done
<poolie> thanks
<barry> +1
<barry> i might have messed up the agenda, so i'll just paste the next two together
<barry>    * poolie to prepare udd sessions for uds-o
<barry>    * jelmer and barry to prepare udd sessions for uds-o
<barry>  
<barry> jelmer and i did talk about it, and jelmer was going to submit the blueprints.  don't remember if there were separate sessions poolie was going to submit
<poolie> i delegated to jelmer
<poolie> is it all ok
<jelmer> I created the blueprints for the sessions
<barry> jelmer: you rock!
<barry>    * poolie to talk to LOSAs about getting new bzrs rolled out faster
<barry>  
<jelmer> barry: this is specifically about rolling out to Launchpad / buildds ?
<poolie> hm, i did talk, but i think i need to also talk to charlies to make sure it happens
<poolie> to jubany
<poolie> let's update the item to clarify it's jubany, and then keep it
<barry> poolie: you got it
<poolie> jelmer, separately probably we should propose bzr updates into launchpad
<poolie> or have a way of deciding when to kick that off
<barry> is there an action item there?
<jelmer> poolie: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing
<ray24> Hey guys what's up
<jelmer> poolie: I'll need to propose updates for bzr-hg, bzr-git and bzr-svn running on lp anyway so perhaps I should have a look at getting the new bzr deployed at the same time.
<poolie> o/ ray24, meeting about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110406
<barry> ray24: hi.  we're having a meeting on ubuntu distributed development
<poolie> that would be good
<poolie> maybe a bug saying "we should upgrade so we get fixes for x, y,z" would help track it
<poolie> does not need to be an exhaustive list
<poolie> you could send a very brief rfc about that to lp-dev
<barry> jelmer: will the bzr-hg update allow me to mirror cpython's hg repo on lp?
<jelmer> barry: it will fix a lot of the existing hg imports, not sure about the cpython one
<barry> cool.  we'll find out!
<barry> i have to admit, hg drives me nuts :)
<barry>  
<barry>    * barry to check with dholbach about publishing of upg with udd docs, and update the udd wiki pages
<barry> i talked with daniel, and he's still waiting for isd to provide a web hostname.  i'm going to move this off the action items and will provide status update when it's available
<jelmer> what's upg?
<barry> ubuntu packaging guide
<barry> moving all the docs into restructured text
<barry> as soon as that's published, i'm going to take an axe to the udd wiki pages and point them there
<barry> a few weeks ago, they merged my branch which basically took all the current udd wiki pages and worked them into the guide
<poolie> wow, that's great
<poolie> someone was asking about the two doc sets just this week
<barry> i think it'll really help developers.  udd will be the preferred path in the guide
<barry> that's it for action items, unless anybody has any other comments
<barry> [TOPIC] package importer progress
<MootBot> New Topic:  package importer progress
<barry> [LINK] http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<poolie> exactly
<poolie> having a bad day today in particular, apparently
<barry> wow. 9905 outstanding jobs?!
<slangasek> hmm, another spike in import failures too
<barry> any idea what's going on there?
<poolie> maybe an lp outage?
<barry> could be i guess.  the failure rate has been pretty steady latel
<barry> poolie, jelmer any status on the import failures?
<poolie> just checking with lp ops
<poolie> they had an upgrade yesterday
<poolie> i'll look in to it later
<poolie> aside from that, the trend has been generally downwards
<barry> poolie: thanks.  and yep, it's great to see
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Bugs of interest:
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Bugs of interest:
<barry> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<poolie> things have been moving at a pretty good rate
<barry> indeed!  almost 200 bugs in needs release or released
<poolie> yes
<barry> really really fantastic
<poolie> and our inprogress queue is now more reasonable
<poolie> the team are really in flow, istm
<barry> man, you guys really rock
<barry> poolie, jelmer any bugs in particular you want to mention?
<poolie> oh
<poolie> you might have seen on linaro-dev, john has done some good work on performance on large trees
<poolie> lp connection time should also be getting faster in several aspects
<barry> i missed that, but yay!
<poolie> loggerhead too should be getting better soon
<poolie> jelmer, how about you?
<jelmer> Andrew S-B got the new bzr-builddeb synced to natty, which fixes a lot of bugs and requires less configuration etc. in general
<poolie> are you planning to do a new release of bzr-* to move those bugs to released?
<jelmer> please try it out, and report bugs if you find any :)
<jelmer> poolie: Yeah, that's on my todo list; I have one more bzr-svn and one more bzr-hg bug I'd like to fix before doing so
<barry> jelmer: anything in particular i should look for with bzr bd?
<jelmer> barry: merge-upstream in particular should now be easier to use, e.g. it can use debian/watch to find and download the upstream tarball
<barry> \o/
<slangasek> jelmer: was the bzr bd orig.tar.bz2 issue that hit us in samba fixed?
<jelmer> slangasek: It's in review
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> will that cause importer problems if deployed?
<slangasek> (i.e., if the current bd is deployed without this fix)
<jelmer> slangasek: it shouldn't, it's in a code path not exercised by the importer AFAIK
<jelmer> we should probably double check or wait before deploying a new bzr-builddeb on the importer though
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Any other business?
<barry> anything else for today?
<poolie> oh, one
<poolie> riddell will be doing a rotation to bzr starting at uds
<jelmer> \o/
<barry> nice!
<poolie> i think that will be fun to work with him and he'll bring some good platform experience and perspective
<poolie> it's agreed and wending through the hr formalities now
<Riddell> I look forward to working with you all
<Riddell> I hope I can live up to the challenge
<poolie> oh, hi
<poolie> :)
<barry> great!  i think we'll end on that positive note
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:43.
<barry> thank you everyone
<jelmer> thanks Barry :)
<poolie> me too, thanks everyone,
<poolie> and thanks riddell :)
<slangasek> thanks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-07
<ogra_> murp
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110407#
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110407#
 * rsalveti waves
<janimo> hi
<NCommander> [topic] Action Items from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Items from last meeting
<NCommander> [topic] Everyone with a panda to test panda with mem=1G
<MootBot> New Topic:  Everyone with a panda to test panda with mem=1G
 * ogra_ hasnt found the time :(
 * NCommander didnt test
<ogra_> well, c/o
 * GrueMaster was laid up.
<ogra_> we need these tests ...
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to create OnericIdeas wikipage
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to create OnericIdeas wikipage
<GrueMaster> Done
<ogra_> where ? :)
<janimo> I have been running with 1G since then
<janimo> no issues on my panda
<ogra_> janimo, did you build any heavy packages ?
<GrueMaster> Link is https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/ARM/Oneric
<ogra_> seems its load related
<janimo> and I did builds - not kernels or Qts but smaller packages in and outside of pbuilder
<ogra_> GrueMaster, merci :)
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to document released images
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to document released images
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> whoops
<janimo> ogra_, right maybe my builds did not push the limits of highmem then
<rsalveti> janimo: could be
<NCommander> janimo: ogra_ the action item been carried over, lets take that offline
<janimo> as predicted Oneiric will have its fair share of misspellings
<janimo> Oneric above
<rsalveti> I also didn't test, but will fire a kernel build today, since I'm done with the drm stuff
<GrueMaster> WIP. Link is https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/ARM/NattyReleaseNotes
<GrueMaster> Finally, right window.
<ogra_> yep
<NCommander> [topic] everyone, add spec ideas to wiki
<MootBot> New Topic:  everyone, add spec ideas to wiki
 * NCommander will do so, but hasn yet
 * janimo has no ideas
<ogra_> janimo, be creative :)
<janimo> withing the constrains of the ARM image/FTBFS  work it does not seem easy
<janimo> it is either linaro or generic ubuntu desktop material that I can think of
<NCommander> janimo: well, right now, its jusy ideas so cook as many as you can and hen weÄºl go through it
<NCommander> anyway, moving on
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<janimo> I guess things like be fater/smaller footprint are things we can always aim for in case we don't have bluprints
 * ogra_ would prefer to discuss VIP bugs instead of WIs 
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<janimo> faster
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<ogra_> given the freeze is on monday
<rsalveti> looking bad because of the gles spec
<rsalveti> yeah, saw the changes related with the compiz package
<rsalveti> and don't think they will accept as compiz is such a core package now
<ogra_> hmm
<rsalveti> and they want it to be very stable for the release
<rsalveti> the development to have gles support is not yet complete, but already have something
<rsalveti> nux is still not started
<ogra_> well, postpone what you have to
<rsalveti> yeah, and then we can start working with a ppa
<NCommander> anyone else or canI move on?
<rsalveti> but besides that things looks ok
<rsalveti> the edid bp is finally "done"
<rsalveti> waiting some more testing from GrueMaster so I can send the pull request to the kernel team
<rsalveti> and finish the bp
<GrueMaster> I'll try to get some done today.
<rsalveti> cool, thanks
<GrueMaster> kernel in your chinstap directory?
<rsalveti> with the drm driver I'm now able to get 1400x900@60-32bpp since the first boot with my monitor
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: will post the link in some minutes
<GrueMaster> k
<rsalveti> still uploading
<ogra_> heh, NCommander whats that one last item you have there
<rsalveti> looks a lot better than before
<ogra_> improving internet in china ? :)
<rsalveti> I'm done, if you want to move
<ogra_> yeah, move
<NCommander> [topic] Unity 2d status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2d status
<ogra_> will get the final code drop today or tomorrow
<ogra_> nothing else to report, upstream works their asses off
<ogra_> move unless there are questions
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<ogra_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ti-omap4/+bug/746137
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 746137 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Natty) "Page allocation failure on omap4" [High,New]
<ogra_> thats our main focus beyond the highmem an sound issues
<rsalveti> same bug also affects beagle xm
<rsalveti> because of the smsc driver
<rsalveti> yup
<ogra_> right, any fix in sight before freeze ?
<rsalveti> not atm, for now just that workaround
<rsalveti> will try to debug it properly
<ogra_> tell me if i have to set sysctl from jasper ... if its not ready by monday
<rsalveti> maybe ppisati could also help us here
<ogra_> yeah
<rsalveti> ogra_: cool
<ogra_> NCommander, didnt you add ppisati to the topic list of people ?
 * ogra_ sees only cooloney and rsalveti 
<rsalveti> and for omap 4 there are lots of discussions about latest rebase
<NCommander> ogra_: I don remember being asked
<ogra_> last meeting iirc :)
<ogra_> anyway, please add him next time so he gets pinged
<rsalveti> so I believe we should have a new update, with a new rebase and latest kernel stable updates soon
<rsalveti> kernel freeze is 14th
<ogra_> rsalveti, beta freeze is 11th
<ogra_> will be hard to upload anything from monday on
<ogra_> final freeze is 14th too
<rsalveti> well, for kernel we don't need to have another upload now
<rsalveti> it's more if they will accept in the kernel tree
<rsalveti> after 14th all patches should also have a sru
<ogra_> yes
<ogra_> but ince i add the sysctl setting for the workaround it will be hard to remove again
<ogra_> Once
<ogra_> so i would prefer an in-kernel fix if any possible
<rsalveti> yeah, me too
<NCommander> can Imove?
<rsalveti> fine by me
<NCommander> [topic]ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<NCommander> mono upstream believes they have the SMP bug properly fixed, as soon as I get my panda up, IÄºl ben validating there work
<NCommander> otherwise nothing to report
<NCommander> janimo: anything to report?
<janimo> nope, going trhrough ftbfs slowly
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> how does main look like atm ?
<janimo> NCommander, planning to add proper mono fix if it works instead of disabling SMP workaround?
<NCommander> janimo: will discuss with the SRU team on the subject
<ogra_> is anyone looking at the kde issues ?
<ogra_> seems there is still a lot
<ogra_> hmm, and gnome-games and tomboy
<GrueMaster> Community has been on top of it recently.
<ogra_> great
<GrueMaster> kdethat is.
<ogra_> yes, got that
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<ogra_> so image status ...
<ogra_> NCommander, !
<janimo> tomboy only ftbfs in pbuilder , builds otherwise
<GrueMaster> Not much to report here.
<janimo> I investigat
<ogra_> NCommander, stop moving without asking please
<janimo> gnome-games is some egl-clutter issue
<janimo> did not look into yet
<ogra_> ok
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> well, we should be down to 1 package in main by release
<janimo> java?
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> thats fails on purpose atm
<janimo> agree
<ogra_> ok
<ogra_> images
<NCommander> ogra_: it should be marked Not-for-us
<NCommander> */nitpick*
<ogra_> NCommander, you mean PAS
<janimo> I hope kde devs will not upload new packages 1 day before release
<janimo> same for gnome for that matter
<ogra_> that was discussed and denied afaik
<ogra_> NCommander, i dont remember why though, ask doko
<GrueMaster> janimo: no such luck.
<janimo> PAS ?
<ogra_> images ... omap4 builds fine, omap3 ... acorn had issues
<ogra_> janimo, pacjkages arch specific
<ogra_> the arch override list
<janimo> ah
<ogra_> NCommander, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-linaro-mx51/+bug/742430 do you feel like implementing a new subarch ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 742430 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "FFe to start making mx51 images" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<ogra_> i'm not sure i'll find the time and you are the only other cdimage member that might be able to do it
<NCommander> Iá¸¿ not going to spin a new image at this point
<ogra_> k, then i'll try to do a nightshift on the weekend or so
<NCommander> and will actively attempt to block unless Iá¸¿ overruled by the release team
<GrueMaster> 3 weeks before final release we start a new image?
<NCommander> If images for mx51 were to be built, they should have started to have been spun ages ago
<ogra_> well, seems it was promised to ScottK by someone that we'd do it
<ogra_> and its an unsupported community image
<NCommander> ogra_: who promised it? Who oversaw it? Who is the image supervisor?
<NCommander> ogra_: we have a POLICY in place about spinning images now per last UDS
<ogra_> scott is the supervisor and wasnt aware what it takes
<GrueMaster> give him rootstock.
<ogra_> so he didnt know whom to ping about what
<NCommander> ogra_: and it only comes up now?!
<ogra_> it came up two weeks ago
<NCommander> ogra_: this should have come up before feature freeze
<ogra_> i agree
<NCommander> Unless the release team signs off on it, Iá¸¿ against any attempts to spin mx51 images
<ogra_> release team signs off on it for sure if someone implements the build scripts
<Riddell> ogra_: kde packages are compiling now, we haven't had any failures so far, just ones waiting on other packages
<GrueMaster> I have to agree here.
<ogra_> its an unsupported headless image
<Riddell> janimo: no big uploads planned now that 4.6.2 is in
<ogra_> it has been discussed in #ubuntu-release for a while
<ogra_> Riddell, awesome !
 * NCommander wonders why we even bother to have freezes anymore
<ogra_> NCommander, who cares about freezes for an unsupported image we are not responsible for
<GrueMaster> my problem is that whenever a new imagew is made, I inveritbly end up gaving to test itand any updates.
<ogra_> its not that we take any responsibility, but we are the only ones being able to add the needed scripts
<ogra_> GrueMaster, do you have any efika hardware at all ?
<NCommander> ogra_: I rather have no image, then a rushed and poorly tested one that ius labeled ÃºnsupportedÂ´Â´
<GrueMaster> I have babbage3.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, not efika :)
<ogra_> wouldnt boot
<ogra_> so no risk for you
<GrueMaster> I have already been asked about it.
<NCommander> ogra_: not to menthon that given the kernel incompatibility with babage, this should be a separate subarch and not imx51
<ogra_> NCommander, it would be labelled that even if it happened before FF
<GrueMaster> Can't they use a linaro image?
<ogra_> the mx51 kernel in the archive runs on both
<NCommander> ogra_: what it was named is a moot point. The fact that we are three weeks to release, and this is the first IÇe heard about it
<ogra_> (we dont have imx51 at all anymore)
<NCommander> s/was/is/g
<NCommander> It also sets a very bad precident
<ogra_> NCommander, well, its not mandatory that we write the scripts, its just a nice gestzure towards the community if we do
<GrueMaster> Linaro has headless images.  Point to them.
<ogra_> we will have to do it for O then
<NCommander> ogra_: fine, lets do it for o-cycle. I object to having poorly tested things let out the door, even on the label of unsupported
<ogra_> GrueMaster, community actually wants a kde image
<NCommander> ogra_: we have KDE images
<ogra_> headless was a fallback because i denied the changes
<ogra_> NCommander, that run on the efikasb or efikamx ?
<NCommander> ogra_: you are obviously missing the point, and I see no futher progress is to be made here
<NCommander> lets take this offline
<ogra_> NCommander, anyway, if you dont want to do it, i'll see if i can manage, if not we have to do it in O
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
 * ogra_ wasnt done with images yet
<GrueMaster> Not much to report, as I am personally in recovery mode.
<GrueMaster> sigh.
<ogra_> there were some changes to jasper i'd like verified by a third party (works here) ...
<GrueMaster> is itin today's image?
<ogra_> the sysctl chnages for SD cards were moved to a different file, i would appreciate if someone testing the images could check it lands in /etc/sysctl.d properly
<ogra_> GrueMaster, should be
<GrueMaster> then I'll test it later today.
<ogra_> and the TI icon should be on the desktop ... if not, please shout at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/ti-omap4-software-channel/+bug/747247
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 747247 in jasper-initramfs (Ubuntu Natty) "No TI icon in favorites on omap4 netbook images" [High,In progress]
<ogra_> if its clearly there i can file a removal bug for the package
<GrueMaster> ok
<ogra_> (doesnt need to work, i can fix that later still, but needs to show up)
 * ogra_ is done 
<ogra_> NCommander, move
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ogra_> i have two bugs we should look at ...
<ogra_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdebian-installer/+bug/744862
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 744862 in libdebian-installer (Ubuntu Natty) "/proc/cpuinfo strings for OMAP4 devices changed with 2.6.38 kernels" [Medium,New]
<ogra_> libdebian-installer needs a fix, i'm not sure i'll get to it ...
<ogra_> mainly cosmetic, but it fixes archdetect (not sure if we use it anywhere atm)
<ogra_> and the sound bug will need testing once we get the patches in
<rsalveti> yeah, lots of testing
<rsalveti> quite lots of changes
<GrueMaster> We also need UCM config for beaglexm
<ogra_> that will be very very short termed, so please everyone do a stresstest once you see an alsa-libs upload
<ogra_> GrueMaster, feel free to create one, i dont think TI will provide one
<GrueMaster> Currently Beagle alsa works, but you need to muck with alsaixer.
<rsalveti> yeah, xm should be on our hands
<ogra_> and i wouldnt know who else uses UCM on beagle yet
<GrueMaster> I'll try, but I am limited in mobility atm.
<ogra_> so you cant get one anywhere
<ogra_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-lib/+bug/746023 has a config for omap4
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 746023 in alsa-lib (Ubuntu) "No sound on omap4" [Medium,New]
<ogra_> you might be able to derive something from it
<ogra_> thats all i had ...
<GrueMaster> anyone else?
<NCommander> I'm closing the meeting in 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:52.
<kees> \o
<kees> Keybuk: just us so far. mdz, pitti, and cjwatson are all unable to attend. haven't seen sabdfl yet.
<kees> Keybuk: er, no, wait, I only see email from pitt and cjwatson. mdz, are you here?
<mdz> kees, we had a discussion on #ubuntu-devel earlier where it sounded like nobody could make it :-/
<kees> mdz: well, if you and sabdfl aren't here, then we don't have quorum.
<Keybuk> kees: clearly my prediction of a rebel 11am Pacific Time meeting with 2 people was accurate :p
<mdz> <pitti> mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda seems to be rather empty right now, do we have something urgent to discuss?
<mdz>  mdz: currently asking myself whether I can weasel out of this today, and go to a friend's bday party
<mdz> <cjwatson> oh argh, I forgot about that - I can't make today's meeting, sorry
<mdz> <mdz> pitti, I may have to miss it too...
<mdz> I'm waiting to find out if a phone call is off or on
<kees> there's 1 item on the agenda that I see. I haven't checked the bug list yet, but the mailing list is clear
<kees> mdz: so, I assume we're going to cancel this week then?
<mdz> kees, I'm available unless I get an email saying my call is on :-)
<mdz> I can't chair
<mdz> looks like I can participate though
<kees> dmandell's topic likely can't wait another 2 weeks given Natty's release schedule. :P
<mdz> is there an email on it? i haven't seen it
<kees> I'll chair
<kees> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:10. The chair is kees.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kees> [topic] action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  action review
<kees> looks like everything got done from last time (cjwatson sent email about the moderation team)
<mdz> sorry about flaking as chair
<kees> [topic] Classic Gnome Desktop by default (dmandell)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Classic Gnome Desktop by default (dmandell)
<kees> dmandell: hi! what did you want to cover on this? sounds like this is a reaction to Unity.
<dmandell> kees: Sure.  I've had some time to use Unity and just don't think it's a suitable default desktop environment for Ubuntu.
<dmandell> There are some frustrating bugs and inconsistencies with the left-side dockbar.
<dmandell> And some pretty important (to me at least) things have been stripped out of the desktop environment.
<dmandell> The system tray appears to have disappeared for instance... there's no easy way through the menuing system to find settings, stuff like that.
<kees> I've seen a very long list of bugs on unity myself. mdz, what's the justification for switching to unity by default? it hasn't really seemed "ready" to me (and to others).
<Keybuk> me neither
<Keybuk> I'm actually planning to recommend to friends and family that they don't upgrade to natty; based on my experience with Unity in its current state
<Keybuk> though "Classic Gnome Desktop" at this point is also a difficult point, since GNOME changed its shell in its current release too
<Keybuk> and I'm not convinced that's any better either
<mdz> kees, the justification is varied, but basically amounts to: it's the future, and we should get going
<kees> Keybuk: right, gnome 3 doesn't look much better, but the gnome 2 stuff seems better off. menu-bar and session saving needs restoration there, though.
<mdz> the plan was to use it as default, and evaluate late in the cycle if it was possible to stabilize it in time
<mdz> such that we could fall back if it wasn't ready, in classic time-box fashion
<kees> mdz: at the cost of users and bad media attention? that doesn't seem right. unity is certainly "the future", but it doesn't seem stable enough for "default" use to me.
<dmandell> mdz: I can understand the desire to want to make big changes, but there's just so much wrong with the way it works now.
<Keybuk> mdz: that was my understanding, I don't believe that the release team have performed their "evaluation" at this point?
<mdz> dmandell, I think everyone is aware that it's not releasable in its current state
<dmandell> Why not make Classic Gnome the default environment and let those who want to use the "next big thing" switch to Unity?
<mdz> but there's a lot of work underway to fix the remaining issues
<kees> it seems like we're at the critical moment then, since we're 2 weeks from final images.
<mdz> Keybuk, I understood it to be scheduled for "beta"
<mdz> which is not so specific now that we have two
<mdz> I'm asking rickspencer3 in another window for clarification
<mdz> ah, but he's at lunch
<mdz> pitti would surely know the status as well, but he couldn't be here today
<Keybuk> to me, just at gut level, this is a -release decision
<kees> the recency of serious behavioral bugs in unity does not fill me with confidence that current fixes will encompass "the remaining issues".
<Keybuk> until such time as -release make a decision that the developers disagree with, and then refer it to TB
<mdz> we may need to take this offline unless we have good desktop team representation here
<mdz> Keybuk, I agree in principle
<Keybuk> while I do feel strongly about this, I do feel we have a release team for a reason and shouldn't reempt them on things we have delegated to them
<mdz> though I fully expect it to be a controversial decision and get punted up to the TB
<Keybuk> especially when they have a pending decision to make
<kees> well, perhaps then the question is "who makes the decision", "who would people go to have that decision reversed", and "what is the time-frame"
<kees> our next meeting isn't until the 21st which seems Too Late to me. we'd need an out-of-band discussion on the mailing list.
<mdz> kees, the latter question is one I really should have a better answer for, but I just got back from holidays+travel and I'm a bit out of the loop this week
<mdz> we could convene a special meeting if needed
 * kees nods
<mdz> dmandell, is this answering your question?
<dmandell> mdz: I guess it depends on when/where the special meeting is and whether or not I'll be able to be involved.
<kees> dmandell: it sounds like a lot of bug fixes are currently going in, and that the ubuntu release team may reevaluate this at the next beta release (apr 14th). if things are still not okay my your estimation, and the release team hasn't decided to pull unity, then it might be time to raise this again to the tech board via the mailing list.
<mdz> oh hi rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hiya
<dmandell> kees: Alright then.
<kees> s/my/by
<mdz> rickspencer3, I was hoping you could update us on the status of evaluating Unity as default
<rickspencer3> sure
<mdz> AIUI there was a plan to evaluate at "beta" (i.e. nowish)
<kees> heya rickspencer3, thanks for joining us
<rickspencer3> hi kees
<rickspencer3> did I miss the discussion?
<mdz> rickspencer3, I've pasted you a URL to a pastebin with the meeting backlog
<kees> rickspencer3: a bit yes. :)
<kees> ah, mdz beat me to it.
<mdz> there wasn't too much discussion because the TB members who are present don't have answers :-)
<kees> some of the unanswered questions I posed are:
<kees> "who makes the decision", "who would people go to have that decision reversed", and "what is the time-frame"
<mdz> (pitti, cjwatson and sabdfl couldn't make it today)
<rickspencer3> these are toughies
<mdz> I guess rickspencer3 is reading the backlog :-)
<rickspencer3> yeah
<rickspencer3> and also thinking
<rickspencer3> these aren't easy questions
<mdz> rickspencer3, I know we planned to do an evaluation around this point in the cycle. did it happen already? what was the result?
<rickspencer3> so, I've been tracking progress closely, and in my determination it is ready
<mdz> can the facts be made available to the release team and/or TB for consideration?
<rickspencer3> so, I've been representing my viewpoint on the readiness on my blog:
<rickspencer3> http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/2011/04/unity-almost-there.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/2011/04/unity-almost-there.html
<kees> rickspencer3: is there some place that documents maybe a subset of dmandell's noted missing features and behaviors? if people still see unity as a regression, that doesn't seem like the best way to go for natty.
<rickspencer3> in my estimation, Unity will be ready, and we should go for it
<rickspencer3> well, there is never a perfect overlap between two products, each will have features the other lacks
<davmor2> rickspencer3: thanks for the spider web by the way :)
<rickspencer3> davmor2 ;)
<rickspencer3> so, I feel that we are shipping a really solid experience in that you can choose "classic" in login
<kees> so what's the hierarchy for the decision making? desktop < release < techboard ?
<rickspencer3> but net/net I think users will be best served wtih Unity
<rickspencer3> kees, are you asking me?
<rickspencer3> I think this is always an ambiguous area
<mdz> kees, that sounds about right
<dmandell> rickspencer3: Some of the programs I use today are seriously impacted without being able to place their icons in the system tray.
<kees> rickspencer3: asking you, yeah. mdz wasn't fully sure.
<dmandell> rickspencer3: that seems like a regression.
<rickspencer3> dmandell, well, there is a workaround for that
<rickspencer3> but, those apps will stop working in mainline GNOME as well
<kees> rickspencer3: I'm also concerned (based on other people's reports as well as my own observations) that Classic is affected by unity too (top-menu panel, lack of session saving, indicators, etc) Classic isn't really classic.
<jcastro> (it should be noted that the systray has been on the chopping block for a year, and would have likely been removed anyway unity or not)
<kees> rickspencer3: not in our gnome 2 mainline. they'll break for sure in gnome 3.
<rickspencer3> kees, except for the top-menu panel, all that stuff has been in Ubuntu for several releases
<kees> but that's not really the question. unity (and gnome 3) are clearly the future. it seems the question is about using it by default in natty.
<james_w> session saving going was independent of unity wasn't it?
<kees> rickspencer3: ah, so classic ubuntu desktop, not classic gnome desktop. fair enough.
<rickspencer3> kees, right, I think Unity is so much better then the classic experience, it should be the default
<kees> james_w: not sure; I haven't used it. I just heard about it as a regression from maverick.
<chrisccoulson> james_w, yes. that feature has been way too unreliable for ages
<kees> rickspencer3: okay, cool.
<rickspencer3> kees, I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just saying what I think
<rickspencer3> since I think that's what I was asked
<rickspencer3> so, my "decision" is that we should default to Unity
<kees> rickspencer3: sure, and that matters. I'm just trying to sort out what the chain of decision-making is to make sure dmandell goes to the right place.
<rickspencer3> however, it's not clear to me that this my "Decision" to make, certainly not unilateraly
<rickspencer3> in that case, I would suggest that we take it as a given that we will default to Unity, and he should escelate to here
<rickspencer3> kees, did that answer your question from my POV?
<mdz> I think that in the spirit of the do-ocracy, the folks doing the work (in this case Canonical) get first crack at decisions like these
<kees> rickspencer3: yeah, totally.
<mdz> but when questions are raised, the conflict should be resolved through the community government
<kees> rickspencer3: I think I'm trying to figure out how community member should engage us when they disagree with something like this.
<rickspencer3> kees, well, I think raising it here is good
<mdz> kees, I think what dmandell has done is entirely appropriate
<rickspencer3> I also think that the desktop list is a good place to discuss as well
<mdz> if there hasn't already been a public debate about this, that would be surprising to say the least
<mdz> we had a lot of discussion early in the cycle of course, but if there's a reckoning to be done, that should be fully transparent as well
<kees> dmandell: if over the next week you aren't satisfied with the progress made on Unity, would you be able to raise your objections again, but to the desktop list (and/or tech-board list)?
<mdz> kees, I don't think we should make this dmandell's responsibility to track and raise again
<Keybuk> kees: I would say release list not desktop
<dmandell> kees:  Sure, next week is the beta2 release, right?
<Keybuk> because the desktop team have made their decision at this point, and now would be the appropriate time to discuss with them
<Keybuk> "in a week" would be release team to me
<mdz> if the desktop team has made a decision, and there's no URL where I can read about it, then that needs to be unwound as job #1
<Keybuk> mdz: perhaps we should organise a town hall meeting the week after beta2 in concert with the desktop and release teams?
<kees> Keybuk: fair point. mdz: right also.  but who should drive that then?
<dmandell> I know this is rather late in the game, but I was taken aback by how buggy the interface was ostensibly 3 weeks before release.
<Keybuk> for people to voice their concerns, and for all decision makers to be present
<kees> dmandell: yeah, next thu is the beta 2 scheduled release
<mdz> Keybuk, I think the sooner the better, when we actually have a chance of influencing the outcome
<rickspencer3> I think I should send an email to desktop list
<Keybuk> mdz: I would agree - but also people should at least be talking about the proposed final version (which I assume will be in beta2 and isn't in now?)
<rickspencer3> stating that I have decided that we should default to unity
<mdz> if there are serious bugs remaining which haven't gotten attention, then we should give the Unity team every opportunity to address them, and that means giving them time
<Keybuk> if the current HEAD is proposed final, then anytime ;)
<mdz> Keybuk, I for one would appreciate hearing from the Unity team which issues they are tracking and which are expected to be fixed for release
<ScottK> Wasn't Unity by default sabdfl'ed in at the start of UDS?
<mdz> even though that work won't be in HEAD yet
<ScottK> (in which case the lack of public discussion on a decision would hardly be suprising)
<rickspencer3> ScottK, yes, that was the stated intention
<mdz> ScottK, yes, but with the understanding that we would run with it during the cycle, and evaluate (as we do with everything else) whether it was ready in time
<mdz> it's not a fait accompli
<Keybuk>                ^
<Keybuk>                d'
<Keybuk> :p
<mdz> the question of whether the code is ready to release isn't a planning decision, it's a fact-based judgement
<kees> okay, so then, should this public evaluation happen now or after beta2?
<mdz> I suggest ASAP
<mdz> it doesn't have to be all at once
<mdz> maybe a preliminary airing of the issues and the plan for resolution
<mdz> and then we can decide whether there's a need for more than that
<rickspencer3> mdz, from my point of view, the remaining issues are compiz crashers
<rickspencer3> but those are getting picked off quickly
<mdz> rickspencer3, thanks, but I'd like to get a more comprehensive view than that
<kees> rickspencer3: will you start the thread on the -desktop list then? I'm trying to find some 'actions' out of this topic. :)
<mdz> e.g.: here is the list of the most serious bugs and their anticipated final status in 11.04
<mdz> then people can look at that list and comment
<mdz> e.g. if a particular issue is missing but considered serious
<rickspencer3> mdz, kees, ok, I can do this this afternoon
<rickspencer3> I'll do it on the desktop list
<mdz> or, they can look at it and say "if those things are resolved, I agree it will be ready for release"
<rickspencer3> it will take me some time to compose
<rickspencer3> sound okay?
<mdz> we can help people (including the TB) get an informed opinion
<kees> [action] rickspencer3 will bring up the state of unity on the -desktop list for public review and discussion
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rickspencer3 will bring up the state of unity on the -desktop list for public review and discussion
<mdz> rickspencer3, sounds great
<mdz> dmandell, that work for you?
<rickspencer3> thanks to dmandell for triggering this discussion, btw
<dmandell> mdz: yup.
<dmandell> rickspencer: no problem.  I'm glad I can be involved.
<kees> cool, thanks rickspencer3, dmandell :)
<kees> [topic] the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
<MootBot> New Topic:  the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
<kees> does the Zeitgeist email need a response from us?
<kees> I assume not, or that it will go to the mailing list. moving on...
<kees> [topic] Check up on community bugs (standing item)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Check up on community bugs (standing item)
<kees> nothing new in the list, but there are still 3 bugs listed
<kees> 273921 seems solved?
<kees> oh, no, there is no redirect.
<kees> that's in IS's court.
<kees> (did I netsplit?)
<mdz> I think it's obsolete and can be closed
<kees> 273921? okay
<mdz> there are only four bugs remaining open
<mdz> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=151820
<mdz> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=308832
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=151820
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=308832
<ubottu> Debian bug 151820 in dhcp3-client "dhcp3-client: Does not send hostname to server by default" [Wishlist,Open]
<mdz> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=35325
<ubottu> Debian bug 308832 in dhcp3-server "dhcp3-server: Please do not run the server as root" [Wishlist,Open]
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=35325
<ubottu> Debian bug 35325 in sysklogd "sysklogd: There should be a way to run sysklogd without root privileges" [Wishlist,Open]
<mdz> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=326677
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=326677
<ubottu> Debian bug 326677 in sysvinit "sysvinit: Support quiet booting for splash screens?" [Wishlist,Open]
<mdz> and I will make sure they all have the patches attached in the Debian BTS
<kees> [action] mdz to attach missing patches for debian bugs 151820 308832 35325 and 326677 (related to LP: #273921)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to attach missing patches for debian bugs 151820 308832 35325 and 326677 (related to LP: #273921)
<ubottu> Debian bug 151820 in dhcp3-client "dhcp3-client: Does not send hostname to server by default" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/151820
<kees> [topic] Select a chair for the next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Select a chair for the next meeting
<kees> mdz: you want to just shift to the next meeting?
<mdz> kees, yes, thanks a lot for filling in
<kees> sure, np.
<kees> okay, that's it then!
<kees> thanks everyone for participating!
<kees> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:54.
<mdz> kees, my action is done
<kees> mdz: okay, thanks
 * charlie-tca waves
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:00. The chair is charlie-tca.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<charlie-tca> Let's go ahead with the Xubuntu Community Meeting
<charlie-tca> The full agenda can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Old business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Old business
<charlie-tca> charlie-tca to check on 11.04 docs - docs were re-written for 11.04
<charlie-tca> # charlie-tca needs to review Testing wiki pages - done; there are still some items that need to be cleaned up, but it is mostly up to date
<highvoltage> hey charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Hello, highvoltage
<charlie-tca> Charlie as Project Lead will draw up a proposal to be added the the Xubuntu Strategy Document for choosing a new Project Lead by community vote
<charlie-tca> This one I have not done
<charlie-tca> Any questions on old business?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Team Updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team Updates
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Packaging & Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Packaging & Development
<highvoltage> charlie-tca: why are you stepping down? other commitments?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Got an update?
<charlie-tca> stepping down where?
<mr_pouit> yep, I've a lot of updates
<charlie-tca> We just need a way to decide who the next leader will be when the term expires
<highvoltage> charlie-tca: sorry I see I misunderstood
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: go ahead
<mr_pouit> * Fixed a locale issue between gdm and xfce4-session.
<mr_pouit> * Fixed an issue with xfce4-panel's default settings, sorry for the panel layout breakage ;-)
<mr_pouit> * Applied upstream patch to fix task grouping/dropdown button issue in xfce4-panel.
<mr_pouit> * Fixed FTBFS of xfce4-radio-plugin (port to libv4l1, testing welcome).
<mr_pouit> * Uploaded xubuntu-default-settings to fix the ugly resize/move box for xfwm4, and xubuntu-artwork to include some icon fixes from ochosi.
<mr_pouit> * Uploaded new bugfix releases for garcon (and another upload to fix a regression found by micahg), xfce4-panel and xfce4-terminal.
<mr_pouit> * Uploaded a few minutes ago what I found in lp:xubuntu-docs (closed 32 bugs).
<mr_pouit> voila :)
<charlie-tca> wOw!
<charlie-tca> that's a lot
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much, for doing all that, mr_pouit
<charlie-tca> Any questions for development?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca> Beta1 testing and testing in the Global Jam uncovered a couple of issues.
<charlie-tca> Thanks to pleia2 for testing xubuntu specifically during the jam
<charlie-tca> We are testing the Beta2 image next week, for release on Thursday.
<charlie-tca> Then we have only two weeks to the final release
<charlie-tca> To the best of my knowledge, we begin testing the final release on April 21
<charlie-tca> any questions?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Website & Marketing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca> Canonical has not responded to our website staging area request yet
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Artwork
<MootBot> New Topic:  Artwork
<charlie-tca> * icon-theme was updated to fix gdm, xfce-panel-plugins etc.
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Documentation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Documentation
<charlie-tca> As mr_pouit said, we will have updated documentation for 11.04. It might not be perfect, but it is much better than what we have had for two releases!
<mr_pouit> yeah, latest commit was 9 weeks ago apparently
<charlie-tca> Any questions about any of this?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Announcements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announcements
<charlie-tca> UDS sponsorship approvals/disapprovals went out yesterday.
<charlie-tca> Some of us have very slow email, apparently
<charlie-tca> Beta 2 next week! Help with testing is always welcome
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Any Other Business - all/anyone
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business - all/anyone
<charlie-tca> We need to re-examine the meeting dates and times
<charlie-tca> This is not ideal for many of us, now.
<mr_pouit> +1
<charlie-tca> Perhaps this would be best visited on the ML, but the dates are going to be between Monday, Thursday, Friday only
<beardygnome> +1
<charlie-tca> Any day better than another?
<charlie-tca> Okay, anyone want to take this item?
<beardygnome> out of the three, monday would be best for me
<charlie-tca> Get the email out, organize the new times?
<beardygnome> i don't mind dropping this on to the ml
<beardygnome> seeing as it was me that prompted it :-)
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] email the ML with proposed meeting days and times, Mon, Thurs, Fri only for days
<MootBot> ACTION received:  email the ML with proposed meeting days and times, Mon, Thurs, Fri only for days
<charlie-tca> Well, forgot the name, but we know who it is.
<charlie-tca> Let's give it two weeks for discussion?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do we need meetings between now and final release? I don't know, myself.
<beardygnome> i take it we need a time around early evening UTC?
<beardygnome> to cover both europe and us
<charlie-tca> yes, normally
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: I don't know, but I don't think there'll be many things to report.
<mr_pouit> we're still reachable on #xubuntu-devel anyway.
<charlie-tca> I am USA, mr_pouit is france, knome and ochosi are finland, I think
<mr_pouit> (austria for ochosi I think)
<charlie-tca> ouch
<charlie-tca> Sorry, didn't mean to get that wrong, but that does make it harder, too.
<charlie-tca> pleia2 is USA
<charlie-tca> but we are two hours apart, too
<beardygnome> why does that make it harder?
<charlie-tca> Isn't Austria about 12 hours different?
<beardygnome> no, that's australia
<charlie-tca> oh
<beardygnome> austria is the same timezone as central europe
<charlie-tca> I am at 1 pm here, but europe is 9-10pm already
<beardygnome> in uk, where i am it's 8.22
<beardygnome> austria france and finland will be 9.22
<pleia2> noon here
<charlie-tca> Okay, let's plan to take this up on April 21, we should have something by then, right?
<charlie-tca> That should be a short meeting, too.
<charlie-tca> Anything else we need to discuss?
<beardygnome> ok, i'll email the ml and ask for suggestions for mon, thurs or fri
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: I am open to anything from about 12:00 UTC and up
<beardygnome> ok charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> great! I just am not giving up my weekends yet
<beardygnome> i guess there's a core group of people who need to be able to make it each week?
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> and if we can get others to participate, they might become core too
<beardygnome> you, pleia, knome, mr_pouit, micahg any others at this stage?
<charlie-tca> ochosi,
<charlie-tca> you
<beardygnome> thanks
<beardygnome> would it be better to sort this off-ml first?
<charlie-tca> We have a whole new release next month to start in on. Got to try to get something right?
<charlie-tca> How so?
<beardygnome> so that we get a time that's best for the core people first
<beardygnome> then open it up for others later
<charlie-tca> That's the hardest part, getting a time that's good for all of us
<ScottK> Generally it's better to be transparent from the beginning.
<beardygnome> i'm just thinking that if loads of people make one suggestion but we go with something else to suit the core people, we might give the wrong impression
<charlie-tca> If you think we can do that, sure. But usually that takes either an email poll or some other poll to set it up
<beardygnome> i'll go with whatever people think is best
<charlie-tca> Anyone really interested in making a meeting will reply with a best time, and if asked, will give two or three best times
<beardygnome> that's true
<beardygnome> i'll stick with emailing the ml then
<charlie-tca> We picked this one because me, mr_pouit, and sometimes ochosi could make it
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> Any other business?
<beardygnome> just the dev ml at this stage?
<charlie-tca> Next meeting April 21, 19:00 UTC
<beardygnome> or should i open it up to the users ml too?
<charlie-tca> yes, beardygnome. Just the devel ML for this one
<beardygnome> ok, i'll do that now
<charlie-tca> Users will be invited to attend, but let's get the best time for those active
<charlie-tca> Thanks to all of you for participating! It is great to have more than just me here.
<charlie-tca> Let's go do our thing now.
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:30.
<micahg> charlie-tca: you realize that's too late to change anything for natty without grave exception, right?
<charlie-tca> yes
<micahg> k
<charlie-tca> that's why I didn't plan for next week to have a meeting.
<charlie-tca> Changes can not be made at whim anymore
<charlie-tca> but reminders to test help, right?
<micahg> right, but by the 21st images will have been spun
<charlie-tca> That doesn't mean they won't respin for bugs
<charlie-tca> basically, everything is froze already, and we get what we have.
<charlie-tca> What's with this firefox 5 I hear coming in june?
<micahg> yep
<amber198> Hi All,My company has just recently migrated from a Windows to a Linux farm.  At the moment we donât have document storage system so we are using Google docs at the present time. We donât see this as the safest method of document storage so I have been assigned the task of finding a better solution.I have been advised to set an FTP server but this method seems dated and the search functionality isnât very good and Iâve 
<broder> amber198: this channel is for ubuntu-related online meetings. you might want to try #ubuntu-server or askubuntu.com
<amber198> ok, thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-08
<dmandell> So I figured out that if I want to spawn multiple windows from the launcher I have to open the trash window and then switch.  It's annoying.  Especially because there's no other way through the GUI to launch Nautilus.
 * skaet waves
<zul> hi
 * joshuahoover waves
 * Riddell photons
<Riddell> (it made the physicists laugh)
<cjwatson> *groan*
<leoquant> lo
 * cjwatson runs Riddell through a double-slit experiment
<skaet> lol
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * pitti waves
<skaet> hi all
<skaet> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Agenda is at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-04-08
<skaet> .
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-04-08
<skaet> Milestoned bugs for beta 2 can be found:
<skaet> [LINK]https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=38691
<MootBot> LINK received: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=38691
<skaet> .
<skaet> Milestoned bugs for 11.04 release can be found:
<skaet>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33569
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs targetted for this release can be found:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming Significant Dates:
<skaet> 11.04 Beta Freeze: April 11, 2011 (0900 UTC)
<skaet> 11.04 Beta 2: April 14, 2011
<skaet> 11.04 Release Date: April 28, 2011
<skaet> Lots of bugs and interesting things to discuss, so unless there are questions about the release dates,  will move directly on to round table.
<Riddell> skaet: week days would be useful on Upcoming Significant Dates, saves me having to look them up
<skaet> Riddell,  good suggestion.
<skaet> will add next time.
<skaet> Freeze is monday, btw.  ;)
<skaet> ..
<ogasawara> skaet: is there a specific time on monday?
<skaet> ogaswara,  ^^ (0900 UTC)
 * skaet looks around, and figures time to move on.... ;)
<skaet> [Topic] QA team update -  jibel
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> hi all
<skaet> :)
<jibel> Natty Beta-2 Work Items
<jibel> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-uec-qa
<jibel> hggdh still blocked due to lack of working UEC since after Alpha 2. Blocked on Critical bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/746751
<jibel> Daviey, Hallyn, and hggdh are working on it
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 746751 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel: [Firmware Bug]: the BIOS has corrupted hw-PMU resources (MSR 38d is 30)" [Critical,In progress]
<jibel>  * QA Dashboard
<jibel>  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<jibel>  As last week linux, unity, compiz are in both last day and last 7 days top 5
<jibel>  * Testing status:
<jibel>  Desktop Automated Testing results
<jibel> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<jibel>    2D: 83% pass / Unity: 76% pass
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<jibel> List of bugs found is at the bottom of page. Still cleaning the list of tests that generates false positives
<jibel>  Server Automated Testing results
<jibel>  http://204.236.234.12/view/ISO-server-Natty/?
<jibel>  1 failure because of a bug with the testing system (LP: #751297)
<jibel>  http://204.236.234.12:8080/view/natty-desktop/?
<jibel> no failure with alternate. desktop test disabled, a fix is committed and being tested with yesterday and today's iso.
<jibel>  Automatic Upgrade Testing
<jibel> http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<jibel>  * python-all has some python import failures, but they look like false positives mostly, mvo will dig into that
<jibel>  * bug 744831: main-all has a file overwrite problem with the langpacks that is fix-commited. According to comment 3 "The next -base langpack build will have this fixed (for beta-2)."
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 744831 in language-pack-as (Ubuntu Natty) "file overwrite error on upgrade from maverick -> natty" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/744831
<jibel> Overlay Scrollbar testing:
<jibel>  * 50 results received / 3 bugs reported
<jibel>  * Report available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/TestingReport/OverlayScrollbar_NattyBeta1
<jibel> Boot performance: We stopped the boot performance bug filing to the focus on Unity.
<jibel> ..
<skaet> Thanks jibel!   Lots of good data there,  agree priority is fixing natty bugs over boot performance (unfortunately).   Couple of questions:
<skaet> Do we have the incoming bug numbers trending down on the bugs coming in?   (is worst of beta surge over?)
<skaet> How many of the desktop bugs not passing (2D-17%, unity-24%) are estimated to be test failures, vs. actual failures?
<skaet> if you want to answer later, we can circle back later?
<jibel> 21 tests failures are false positives in 2d and approximately the same test in unity.
<jibel> it's around 30% of the failures.
<jibel> I don't have the answer to question 1 on the top of my mind.
<skaet> ok,  lets come back to that at the end.
<skaet> thatn's for the data on the false positives.
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Hardware Certification team update - victorp
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - victorp
<ara> o/
<skaet> hiya ara
<ara> I will be representing the hw cert team this week :)
<ara> This week (and next one), the hardware certification team, is running the full certification testing suite against the systems that are scheduled to be certified for 11.04. This is a great team effort that it is already paying off.
<ara> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=blocks-hwcert
<ara> We are tagging the bugs as "blocks-hwcert" and we hope these will get the needed attention in order to get as many fixed as possible before release (or in an early SRU).
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=blocks-hwcert
<ara> This is how the coverage looks so far:
<ara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/natty-testing/natty_beta1.html
<ara> We will keep testing the Beta1 image with the remaining systems.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/natty-testing/natty_beta1.html
<ara> ..
<skaet> Thanks ara!
<skaet> I'll go look at the actual data after meeting - is the overall picture positive or do we have some blockers starting to show?
<ara> skaet, there are some systems that won't pass certification in 11.04 if the bugs are not addressed :(
<ara> skaet, and the list of bugs will probably grow as we continue testing
<skaet> understand.
<skaet> what % of the tested systems won't pass certification at this point?
 * skaet is seeing a fair bit of red on that chart....
<ara> skaet, not that bad, I don't have the exact numbers though
<skaet> ara,  ok,  thanks.  we'll move on then now.
<ara> skaet, I will generate them if you're interested when the run is finished
<skaet> thanks.  understanding impact of problem helps.
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Security team update - jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hi!
<skaet> :)
<jdstrand> Sorry for missing last week, I was on holiday.
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> Since I brought it up last time I was here, I thought I'd mention that wrt the FTBFS in natty, I see that main is looking quite good, but universe and multiverse are still fairly scary (based on http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110329-natty.html).
<jdstrand> aiui, http://people.canonical.com/~vorlon/broken-srcs-universe.txt shows which universe FTBFS packages are the result of the multiarch changes.
<jdstrand> that list is less scary
<jdstrand> All work items tied to the release process are completed. We are pleased to see that upstream thinks they know what the problem is wrt bug #663294. We fixed a couple of milestoned bugs (see the above report), but as usual, team has been focusing primarily on stable release updates.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663294 in firefox (Ubuntu Natty) "Firefox built with gcc-4.5 is a non-starter on i386 with -pie" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663294
<jdstrand> I also had a question on the hardy desktop EOL, but not sure I should ask it now, in this meeting or somewhere else.
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> thanks jdstrand!  hardy desktop EOL announce email is to be sent out.
<skaet> its on my todo.
<jdstrand> skaet: ok-- and that is also for the end of april, no?
<pitti> jdstrand: doko just handed us a test binutils for that, Chris is testing it right now
<chrisccoulson> yep :)
<jdstrand> pitti: awesome :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to drink beer tonight if it works
<skaet> jdstrand,  yes, but natty release + hardy EOL + karmic EOL on same week isn't feasible workload,  so I'm staggering out the EOLs until after.
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: and especially awesome to you for all the analysis and reduced test case :)
<chrisccoulson> :)
<skaet> +1
<jdstrand> skaet: ok. there are support costs wrt security updates when delaying EOL announcements though...
<skaet> jdstrand, understand.  will discuss with you offline.
<jdstrand> ok. that's it from me
<skaet> [Topic] Kernel team update - ogasawara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for the release milestone is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> All remaining work items are not release critical and should start moving to completion.  We recently uploaded the linux-2.6.38-8.41 kernel which most notably contains patches to allow powerpc to boot once again.  With Kernel Freeze next week, we plan to do our final kernel upload on Monday to allow enough time for builds to complete by Thursday.  Announcements regarding kernel freeze have been posted to the Ubuntu kerne
<ogasawara> l-team mailing list as well as in the weekly kernel-team IRC meeting.  Any bug fixes which have not landed by Monday will be subject to SRU.
<ogasawara> An update on the bugs noted in the agenda is as follows:
<ogasawara> #508516 This is a BIOS bug, workaround exists by setting nohz=off and highres=off.  See comment #94 for release notes blurb. Set linux task to Won't Fix.
<ogasawara> #539467 SATA alpm is now disabled in userspace, possible fix for Nvidia mcp65 controllers when in minimal power mode has been tested with positive feedback; Those still experiencing issues but with a different controller have been instructed to file new bugs.
<ogasawara> #542660 Testing with v2.6.38 final still problematic.  Unfortunately, the tester appears to have sold the hw.
<ogasawara> #608312 Patches pushed upstream but no response.  Kernel dev to re-test and confirm against Natty and submit patches to Ubuntu kernel-team mailing list if still needed.
<ogasawara> #625364 Some comments indicate this has been resolved with a recent kernel update.  Still waiting confirmation from the original bug reporter.  Other subscribers/reporters may have a slightly different issue and confirmed that switching to vt1 and back on suspend mitigates the issue.
<ogasawara> #634487 Kernel dev able to reproduce, currently under further investigation.
<ogasawara> #674984 Awaiting confirmation this exists against Natty.
<ogasawara> #686388 Test kernel built.  However, there are known issues with the proposed patches when on a macbook.  Call for testing with non-macbook hw.
<ogasawara> #710738 Asked for testing to confirm the issue remains with the latest 2.6.38-8.41 kernel.
<ogasawara> #712075 Partial fix in place, testing requested with 2.6.38 final kernel;  Remaining issue not release critical.
<ogasawara> #719620 Investigation pointed to this being a BIOS bug.  Reporter going to try to upgrade the BIOS to see if this helps.
<ogasawara> #720949 Assigned to kernel dev, currently under investigation.
<ogasawara> #746751 Upon further investigation this does not appear to be kernel related but rather an issue with eucalyptus.
<ogasawara> #747090 Currently under investigation.
<ogasawara> #750649 Working on getting this assigned and under investigation.
<ogasawara> #753071 Pull request Nack'd on the mailing list.  With the majority of the code not being upstream, this presents a maintenance burden as well as the fact that it brings in a large amount of change on the eve of kernel freeze.  Won't Fix at the moment.
<ogasawara> #731878 We've isolated the bad commit and are currently tracking the upstream discussion regarding the issue.  We plan to revert the commit if no solution is found prior to kernel freeze.
<ogasawara> Phew, any questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<cjwatson> if you can give me an idea of what time Monday, that would be useful.  I'll have to refresh installer images, and beta-2 CD builds will be gated on that (at least).
<doko> please expect a (non-code changing) gcc-4.5 upload over the weekend
<ogasawara> cjwatson: now that I hear we'll freeze the archive at 0900UTC, I'm inclined to upload on sunday instead.
<cjwatson> that's easier from my end, as long as it works for you
<cjwatson> however it sounds like it'll need to go after the gcc-4.5 build
<ogasawara> cjwatson: works better for me actually, I don't like to cut it close
<ogasawara> doko: gcc takes at least a day to build, can you upload today or saturday?
 * skaet likes ogasawara attitude ;)
<pitti> oh, 0900 UTC on Monday? seems I missed that
<skaet> pitti, was on release mail list discussion, and agenda. ;)
<doko> ogasawara: I'll upload as soon as possible, but not before the new binutils is in the archive
<ogasawara> doko: is there an ETA for that?
<doko> scroll back, waiting for feedback
<ogasawara> doko: ack, can you ping me so I have a heads up when you've uploaded.
<doko> and as I did say, it's a *non-code changing* upload
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara!   Will go through the detailed status and get with you offline if specific questions.
 * skaet looks around for o/ ...   
<skaet> moving on then.
<skaet> [Topic] Foundations team update - cjwatson
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> Status: Drowning in bugs as far as the meeting agenda is concerned.  On the other hand, most of them aren't actually that important.  The important ones in my opinion are:
<cjwatson> bug 663294 - upstreamed by Matthias, looks as though upstream knows what the problem is so we should have a fix soon
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663294 in firefox (Ubuntu Natty) "Firefox built with gcc-4.5 is a non-starter on i386 with -pie" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663294
<cjwatson> bug 683355 - plan here is to use grub-mount (from an upstream branch) to do true read-only mounts without needing to replay journals - Colin has this sort of working and is debugging it into existence
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 683355 in os-prober (Ubuntu) "os-prober fails to find OSes on uncleanly-unmounted filesystems" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683355
<cjwatson> bug 711926 - only speculation on this so far
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 711926 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "[Natty] Couldn't choose correct keyboard layout in Ubiquity" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711926
<cjwatson> bug 728088 - this showed up in ISO testing, but Colin can't reproduce it.  Help wanted!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728088 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Natty) "iscsi root (amd64) with or without auth fails to boot" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728088
<cjwatson> bug 728531 - new headline feature in upstart that needs to be fixed up.  James has a fix in testing, which is looking good so far
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728531 in upstart (Ubuntu Natty) "chroot support is not reliable" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728531
<cjwatson> bug 732149 - reproduced, debugging in (slow) progress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 732149 in grub2 (Ubuntu Natty) "[natty] btrfs "grub-probe: error: unknown filesystem"" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732149
<cjwatson> bug 741304 - another ISO testing bug; partially fixed, but apparently this wasn't sufficient
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 741304 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "Language packs are not being installed for selected languages during oem-config" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/741304
<cjwatson> bug 743136 - fix previously attempted, but we need to try again
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 743136 in grub2 (Ubuntu Natty) "grub2 fails to install on md0 " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/743136
<cjwatson> bug 746758 - Evan has been swearing at this for most of the week, but I believe is still working on it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746758 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "11.04 64bit Beta1 CD Installer crashed [no appropriate viewer found for /usr/lib/flashplugin-installer/libflashplayer.so on amd64]" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746758
<cjwatson> The good news is that Wubi's fixed, we finally have an EOL landing web page, and in general the resolution rate continues to be high.  We just have a lot coming in as well.
<cjwatson> Finally, a worthwhile thing to know for the next release: http://twitter.com/#!/WeAreFact/status/56348015618834433
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> Thanks cjwatson!
<skaet> sorry about letting some cruft in on the agenda.
<doko> test rebuilds still running, will expect to file the remaining bug reports this weekend
<skaet> and *\o/* on wubi working!
<cjwatson> doko: thanks - are you planning to milestone any/all?
<cjwatson> (IIRC you said "yes, once they're done")
<doko> cjwatson: the script doesn't yet support milestoning :-/
<cjwatson> if you give me a batch of bug numbers then I can script it
<cjwatson> if that's what you want to have happen
<doko> anyway, if somebody has a script template ...
<cjwatson> and give you the resulting interactive session for future reference :-)
<cjwatson> (I tend to make stuff up on the fly in lp-shell(1))
<doko> we'll sort it out later
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Server team update - zul
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - zul
<zul> hi
<zul> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus/
<zul> The burn down chart looks really good. We are currently bug squashing mode. The new gamma release for Opentack will be uploaded today. The only new outstanding bug is 747498, which is pending on the landscape team testing the patch but will uploaded to the archive today. Other than that things are looking pretty good.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus/
<zul> Bugs still in progress
<zul> * 728088 - debian-installer - iscsi root (amd64) with or without auth fails to boot
<zul>     Someone needs to retest.
<zul> * 717166 - Eucalyptus - Broken with v4 isc-dhcp-server in Natty
<zul>     Marked as invalid its a bug in dhcp.
<zul> * 580319 - dhcp3-server launches before upstart brings all interface, thus failing to start
<zul>     Assigned to JamesHunt
<zul> * 727200 [MIR] lxcguest in main
<zul>     Pending MIR review
<zul> ...
<zul> I think we are in pretty good shape
<cjwatson> iscsi: it's not so much retesting, as either "help cjwatson to reproduce it" or "fix it" :-)
<zul> cjwatson: ah ill see if i can try to reproduce it
<cjwatson> somebody's reproduced with a hardy ietd, but I don't propose to set that up - in any case I rather suspect it isn't server-version-specific
<skaet> thanks zul.   what about the other bugs on agenda?
<zul> skaet: err...i need to have a look
<skaet> can you go through them asynch,  and make sure they're all valid and prioritieze correctly?
<skaet> prioritized even..
<zul> skaet: yeah the powernap one was just fixed i think as well
<skaet> cool.
<skaet> I'll move on then...
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop team update - pitti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team update - pitti
<pitti> General status:
<pitti>  * Nothing noteworthy since last week; bug fixing going on with full steam.
<pitti>  * Unity team asked for uploading a final flush of bug fixes on Monday, can we fit that in?
<pitti> Blueprint implementation:
<pitti>  * On track for entire cycle
<pitti>  * Remaining work for Natty:
<pitti>   * [packageselection-desktop-n-firefox-4] Some remaining porting to xulrunner-2.0/webkit: At this point this will probably mean to drop most of the remaining stuff from the archive
<pitti>   * Today we did the final decisions about the remaining xulrunner rdepends, looks like we can actually get rid of both 1.9.2 and 2.0 by final (which is pretty much a must for our own sanity)
<pitti>   * Various "test that this works", discuss user testing
<pitti> RC bugs:
<pitti>  * Slew of new bug reports from beta-1, as expected
<pitti>  * details: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs
<pitti>  * biggest blocker here is bug 663294, but we just got a test binutils from doko which will hopefully resolve that without having to resort to workarounds like using gcc-4.4
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663294 in firefox (Ubuntu Natty) "Firefox built with gcc-4.5 is a non-starter on i386 with -pie" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663294
<pitti>  * The others are not blocked and are just a time/manpower issue
<pitti> njpatel | I will buy many beers, can we push freeze time to 11:00 UTC or something?
<pitti> ..
<skaet> Thanks pitti!
<skaet> in terms of unity drop on monday
<skaet> probably a question of how late you're willing to work (or slangasek)
<skaet> and how much else is still landing
<dbarth> note that the offer for beer stands and can be doubled
<pitti> I had assumed starting to test the Tuesday images would be enough, or do you think it's too late?
<pitti> we didn't get structural changes in the last week, after all
<pitti> or building them at 1300 UTC then
<pitti> (on Monday)
<skaet> pitti,  given the wubi testinging not working up til now,  would like the QA team to have images to start sniff testing as soon as possible.
<pitti> skaet: that should be fine
<pitti> first round of images Monday morning, next ones Tuesday morning?
<pitti> so we can accept OMG, really safe, and unity during Monday?
<skaet> jibel,  will that work for you?
<pitti> (totally +1 for freezing during that time, and only doing manual review, of course)
<jibel> skaet, yes, that's fine.
<skaet> ok,  everthing else is 0900,   unity is 1300.
<skaet> that will give us a set of images to start the sniff testing on, and find the OMG's
<njpatel> We'll be available for any criticals you guys need fixing too, didrocks and seb128 have been alerting them to us as usual but even after release, we only have Unity to focus on right now
<pitti> skaet: sounds good
<njpatel> skaet, pitti , thank you :)
<skaet> and then hopefully have the tuesday images AM for the final validation.
<seb128> skaet, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> yeah, got it, thanks :)
 * skaet notes that AM is pitti and jibel AM for the images,  not skaet am ;)
<dbarth> right, thanks guys
<pitti> oh, another thing
<pitti> bug 725434 is the other "interesting" one on our list
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 725434 in cairo (Ubuntu Natty) "Nvidia drivers lead to extra memory usage for each process using libGL" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/725434
<pitti> we have thrown around splitting the package etc., but it's all opening a can of worms
<skaet> :(
<pitti> summary is that at this point we have to screw wayland to unscrew Nvidia users
<pitti> as wayland at this point is a developer only thing, but there are millions of nvidia users out there
<pitti> so we'll have to rever the EGL support from cairo
<pitti> as we can't fix the nvidia driver
<pitti> and instead provide it in a PPA
<pitti> this will also mean to break wayland in ubuntu without the PPA, though
<skaet> thanks for raising,  yes, that makes sense (unfortunately).
<skaet> nvidia drivers working is priority.
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> details on where we're at with our natty work and releases are in the link above
<joshuahoover> UI FFE #733327 was released just a bit ago
<joshuahoover> we'll be doing more package releases early next week that will take care of the rest of the bugs linked to in the list above
<joshuahoover> and that's it for this week for u1 - questions?
<joshuahoover> --
<seb128> when is early next week known that freeze is monday at 9?
<skaet> thanks joshuahoover
<seb128> (I noticed a few ubuntuone-client-gnome crash fixes pending upload that I want to see in natty)
<joshuahoover> seb128: i meant monday at the latest...most should be done yet today
<skaet> joshuahoover, 0900 freeze on monday...  ?
<skaet> heh
<joshuahoover> skaet: yes :)
<skaet> :)
<skaet> thanks!
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<Riddell>  * KDE SC 4.6.2 is in, still compiling away on ARM
<Riddell>  * plasma-desktop crashes on today's live CD, it's due to a patch we added, I'm taking a look at it but we can take it out if I don't figure it out
<Riddell>  * plasma-mobile also crashes, new package on revu due to go in shortly
<Riddell>  * http://goo.gl/HbXHe 6 bugs milestoned for beta 2
<Riddell>  * bug 744812 is high importance, waiting on sladen to confirm upload with workaround
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 744812 in Ubuntu Font Family "FontConfig/Qt stack choke on Ubuntu Medium font meta-data (No medium in Inkscape and too bold in Qt apps)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/744812
<Riddell> ..
<Riddell> oh and docs didn't make the freeze :( due this weekend I'm told
<skaet> Thanks RIddell
<skaet> there were some bugs showing up from the iso testing, that are on the agenda.   Have you had a chance to look, at them?
<skaet> please feel free to remove if they aren't significant.
<Riddell> skaet: I'll take a look after the meeting
<skaet> Thanks!
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<dbarth> hi
<skaet> :)
<dbarth> Report at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/NattyReleaseStatus
<dbarth> the gist of it being that
<TheBIGone> There a way to play game on ubuntu... the newest game like Starcraft II
<TheBIGone> ?
<dbarth> we released unity 3.8.4 with almost 80 bugs fixed
<dbarth> new release of compiz as well with test logs @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/QA/TestLog
<dbarth> a11y regressions (again) but we're on top of the cpu problem here
<dbarth> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/754377
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 754377 in unity "unity-panel-service consuming 100% CPU when attempting to scrub through indicators." [Undecided,In progress]
<dbarth> the FFE front is hopefully stabilizing
<dbarth> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/754583 is the last one
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 754583 in unity "UIFe: Launcher - update launcher reveal interaction to make it more accessible to first time users" [Undecided,Triaged]
<dbarth> the code is ready and i hear thta it is considered positively- it's mostly based on user feedback that we want to address before the hard freeze
<cjwatson> TheBIGone: this is a meeting channel, and there is a meeting in progress - please try #ubuntu instead
<pitti> dbarth: I think that just pretty much got turned down, even by sabdfl himself now
<dbarth> nothing major on the u-foundations side, except the CJK problem
<dbarth> ah, that happened during my call then; will update you in a bit
<dbarth> the CJK problem https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/745243 requires changes in different packages outside of the strict unity scope
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 745243 in Unity Foundations "[dash] wrong search result of Unity in Chinese" [High,Triaged]
<dbarth> we've proposed a ppa or an oem port so far; ie there's not much we think we can do that late in the cycle
<dbarth> ..
<pitti> dbarth: I suppose that's all internal logic, so at worst we could SRU it?
<dbarth> yes
<dbarth> with a lot of testing though
<TheBIGone> cjohnston okay
<dbarth> there are 2 options to fix the issue
<pitti> or do you think it's bad enough that we should default to gnome for CJK locales?
<TheBIGone> but I have never used UBUNTU
<TheBIGone> so why Ubuntu is better than windows
<pitti> TheBIGone: please, #ubuntu-users
<dbarth> it's not a locale problem afaict, it's turning cjk support in libxapian
<skaet> dbarth,  will add 745243 to the list.   Have you had a chance to look at the bugs on the agenda?
<dbarth> but that would have to be tested with all of the apps that link with it
<dbarth> skaet: not in details, sorry
<skaet> dbarth,  ok,  just want to make sure the importances are correct.
<dbarth> the high/crtiical ones should be on our the list for our last upload
<skaet> so if you cold take a pass after the meeting, that would be appreciated.
<dbarth> i can double check that
<dbarth> right
<skaet> thanks dbarth!
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] ARM team update - ogra
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - ogra
 * ogra_ waves
<skaet> :)
<ogra_> Status is at:
<ogra_> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> Summary:
<ogra_>  * OMAP4 work on sound implementation is ongoing pulseaudio and alsa patches are being adjusted for bug 746023
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogra_>  * TI PPA icon should be back on the desktop (needs verification, no image builds possible atm)
<ogra_>  * unity-2d was updated to the final release
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746023 in alsa-lib (Ubuntu) "No sound on omap4" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746023
<ogra_>  * banshee is the default music player on arm too now (thanks to NCommander)
<ogra_>  * ARM specific FTBFS list for main has grown a bit again, but all under control.
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> Image status:
<ogra_>  * Netbook images are currently broken, waiting for the archive to settle
<ogra_>  * Headless/serial image works fine
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> Specs:
<ogra_> Entire status: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra_> Milestone: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> Bugs being worked on for beta-2:
<ogra_>  * 747247
<ogra_>  * 746023
<ogra_>  * 744862
<ogra_>  * 746137
<ogra_>  * 651302
<ogra_> ..
 * skaet likes new separator character. ;)
<ogra_> this bug might need a freeze exception, diwic and TheMuso are working with TI on patch adjustment, i'm not sure when they will be ready
<skaet> ogra_, understood.
<ogra_> i hope it will be fine over the weekend, both audio devs of TI sit in mexico, so it might be that we get the final patchset only later on monday
<ogra_> thats all :)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> re: bug 67544 - is it really high,  its been lingering for a while?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 67544 in fpc (Ubuntu Natty) "Bootstrapping needed for fpc for armel" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/67544
<ogra_> lamon is working on that one, no ?
<ogra_> at least he has it assigned
<skaet> ogra_, no progress of entire release, so wondering if we should be carrying it.
<ogra_> not sure, i'll ask him
<skaet> thanks
<skaet> are all the bugs on the agenda at the right priority?
<skaet> (and appropriate for the arm team).
<cjwatson> it's been assigned to lamont since 2010-01-26; however, due to the constraints on this kind of bootstrapping, it does need his involvement
<doko> well, I think somebody else from is could retry this
<ogra_> i think so, i'll double check after the meeting
<ogra_> (sorry, big lag here)
<skaet> would appreciate it if you could take a pass at them after the meeting, and double check they should be on the list.   I'll add the ones you've got to the list.
<ogra_> Yep
<skaet> thanks ogra_ :)
<cjwatson> doko: lamont is the Ubuntu OSA, they'll likely assign it straight back to him :)
<cjwatson> I'll ask him though
<skaet> any other questions for ogra_ ?
<skaet> [Topic] MOTU team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - ScottK
<TheBIGone> skaet what`s that chan .. for what you use it ?
<lamont> g'morning
 * lamont will wear his developer with uOSA powers this weekend and throw that against the wall and see if maybe it sticks this time
<skaet> TheBIGone, please wait until you see after the endmeeting, for general questions.
<cjwatson> TheBIGone: please, this is a meeting room.  I'm sure you wouldn't walk into a professional meeting room and ask questions outside the agenda
<TheBIGone> okay .. no problem I`ll just read :)
 * skaet looks around for ScottK?
<Riddell> he hasn't been around today that I've noticed
<skaet> thanks Riddell
<skaet> [Topic] Linaro update - JamieBennett
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - JamieBennett
<skaet> hmm,  no JamieBennett, it appears...
<skaet> [TOPIC] any catch up comments from prior questions?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any catch up comments from prior questions?
<skaet> ok
<skaet> doesn't seem like we'll get updates
<skaet> [TOPIC] any other release concerns/comments/questions?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other release concerns/comments/questions?
<skaet> going once
<skaet> twice
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:19.
<ogra_> thanks skaet
<pitti> thanks everyone
<skaet> Thanks jibel, ara, jdstrand, cjwatson, ogasawara,  pitti, zul, joshuahoover, Riddell, dbarth, ogra
<joshuahoover> thanks skaet
<jdstrand> thanks skaet
<skaet> TheBIGone,  #ubuntu is for general questions,   #ubuntu-meeting is for team meetings (which we just had,  others meet here too).  :)
<maco> an also #ubuntu-offtopic for chatter
<jibel> thanks for chairing skaet
<lamont> skaet: ogra_: I'll see what I can do with fpc/armel this weekend - maybe on a current beaglexm it will actually build from source... that would be a wonderful change from the last 2 or 3 attempts
<ogra_> i bet it will :)
<skaet> thanks lamont.  :)
<lamont> ogra_: if it doesn't, I'll reject the bug as invalid. :-p
<ogra_> heh
<lamont> or maybe not....
<ogra_> no, better wait for the pandas
<ogra_> :)
<lamont> ogra_: if it fails on beaglexm, I'll try it on a random panda I'm aware of
<ogra_> they will fix the world and make us all rich and happy
<ogra_> ... and beautiful :)
<skaet> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-09
<topyli> ircc meeting happening? jussi, nhandler, elky, tsimpson?
<topyli> i guess not. maybe i have the wrong time again :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-10
<lifeless> popey: hey there, around?
<popey> lifeless: ya
<lifeless> popey: I'm just curious what prompted the sounder list proposal
<popey> :)
<popey> partly to kick the arses of the people who use the list as a public venting system for their political / religion posts
<popey> partly to get the people on the list to think about what they want the list to be
<popey> i dont personally care if it's shutdown or not. I just want it to be less of a shit-pit
<popey> if people start to take ownership and make it a useful resource, great
<czajkowski> yes but to be fair it gets tidy up for a wee bit then reverts back to this crap
<popey> _no_ other Ubuntu list is like sounder
<lifeless> popey: thanks
<popey> and the suggestion that sounder ~= #ubuntu-offtopic is spurious
<popey> offtopic has stuff that's offtopic for offtopic
<popey> the people on sounder seem to think there is no topic that is offtopic for sounder
<popey> and that #ubuntu-offtopic is the same
<popey> which it isnt
<popey> !o4f
<popey> bah
<popey> !o4o
<ubottu> Some topics are controversial and often end in negativity. Take care on subjects like war, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide. The topics are not banned; stating your position is ok, but trolling, baiting, hostility or repetition are not. If you are asked to stop, do so politely. Disputes to !appeals, please adhere to !freenode Policy and the !CodeOfConduct
<highvoltage> popey: wow you're still on sounder!?
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-02
<ara> hello!
<roadmr> aloha!
<ara> we don't seem to have any topics on the agenda for today, but I will add one :)
<ara> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  2 15:02:18 2012 UTC.  The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ara> #topic - Checkbox status in Precise
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: - Checkbox status in Precise
<ara> OK, so let's sum up how things are looking for 12.04 in Checkbox
<ara> 1) Checkbox Qt is untranslatable so far, but the tests are pretty much translated
<ara> roadmr, any updates on the bug about Checkbox Qt not being translatable?
<ara> roadmr, ?
<roadmr> ara: sorry!
<roadmr> ara: the merge request was approved a moment ago, I have to merge it and then prepare an Ubuntu upload for 0.13.6
<roadmr> ara: I can have that ready today I expect
<ara> roadmr, wow, I didn't now it has progressed that much! it is great news
<roadmr> ara: yes, well ctf tested it quite thoroughly so we're confident it works well
<ara> thanks roadmr, ctf :)
<ara> 2) We will need to update the documentation on the friendly site: https://friendly.ubuntu.com/participate/
<ara> to match the new interface
<ara> 3) balloons is going to help us reaching the Ubuntu community to test their systems once 12.04 gets released :)
<ara> ..
<ara> anything else urgent that needs to be fixed (for sure) for 12.04?
<ara> mmm, it doesn't look like it
<ara> OK, moving on
<ara> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business?
<roadmr> o/
<ara> roadmr, go ahead :)
<roadmr> yay! so where do we stand as far as strings (for instance, job descriptions) are concerned? because we're getting some bug reports from people testing beta2 which show some descriptions could use improving
<ara> roadmr, if they are critical (i.e. if not changing them could turn into a 1 star submission), then we should fix them
<ara> we would need translations freeze exception, but it is clear that we will need to fix some of those
<roadmr> ara: they're just confusing :/ we could always argue that failures were due to misinterpretation %)
<roadmr> I understand at this point changes affect other people (translators, who probably hate us by now)
<roadmr> but still it's something to keep on the radar I think
<roadmr> ok, that's all I had :)
<roadmr> ..
<ara> OK; thanks. I think that we might need to fix some of those :(
<ara> so, we'd better fix them soon :)
<ara> and yes, they should hate us by now
<ara> but let's just fix those that really can turn a 3 stars to 1 star
<ara> ..
<ara> anything else?
<ara> going once...
<ara> going twice...
<roadmr> ?!?
<balloons> heh
<ara> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  2 15:20:00 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-02-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-02-15.02.html
<ara> :D
<ara> thanks all!
<roadmr> thanks ara!
<cr3> cheerio folks!
<mdeslaur> \o
<micahg> o/
 * sbeattie waves
 * mdeslaur looks for tyhicks and jjohansen
<tyhicks> I'm here :)
<jjohansen> \o
<mdeslaur> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  2 18:01:56 2012 UTC.  The chair is mdeslaur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<mdeslaur> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<mdeslaur> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<mdeslaur> uh, nothing to announce.
<mdeslaur> I don't like fish.
<mdeslaur> there.
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<mdeslaur> no previous action items, skipping
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<mdeslaur> I am on triage this week
<mdeslaur> am working on a couple of embargoed issues, and need to do some mysql testing before pushing them to -proposed
<mdeslaur> that's about it...
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're next
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm working on more apparmor bugs
<sbeattie> I may also try to pick up an update this week.
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg: poke
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: think you'll have the two milestoned apparmor issues fixed this week?
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: bug 872446 we can fix now with an apparmor upload
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 872446 in apparmor (Ubuntu Precise) "aa-logprof drops exec denials" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872446
<sbeattie> bug 800826 I am planning to fix this week as well.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 800826 in apparmor (Ubuntu Precise) "aa-notify doesn't display certain apparmor events" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800826
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you mentioned some regression in the test suite with the first one, is that fixed?
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: oh, never mind, I misread the bug comment
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: sorry
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: awesome, thanks!
<mdeslaur> micahg: you're up
<micahg> I'm working on a thunderbird regression, then I have 2 stable release transitions in the works for after maverick EOL, thunderbird 11 migration and webkit
<sbeattie> it wasn't a regression in the testsuite, it ended up exposing another bug in the apparmor utils.
<micahg> oh, and chromium 18 SRU as well
<mdeslaur> micahg: cool. is that regression 11.0.1?
<mdeslaur> micahg: or something else
<micahg> mdeslaur: yes
<mdeslaur> o
<mdeslaur> ok
<micahg> that's it for me
<tyhicks> I'm in the community role this week
<tyhicks> I'm working on the gnutls updates. Making good progress this morning, so I'm confident that they'll go out by mid-week.
<tyhicks> I've also still go to give upstream eCryptfs some love (bug tracker, getting a couple fixes upstream) at some point
<tyhicks> and I'll pick up another update, too
<tyhicks> That's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: You're up
<jjohansen> this week looks like it will primarily be more bug fixing :/
<jjohansen> I need to finish up with Bug #969228, Bug #969299, Bug #970647, Bug #959352, and Bug #959560
<jjohansen> if I finish up with that I will do some additions to the test suite and any remaining work items.
<jjohansen> Oh I need to poke at why precise won't install on my x120e so that I can file a decent bug report
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 969228 in lxc (Ubuntu) "Unable to load another apparmor profile from /etc/apparmor.d/lxc/" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969228
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 969299 in apparmor (Ubuntu Precise) "apparmor prevents dpkg-divert and localedef from working in a container" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969299
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 970647 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "Denials due to "deleted" are not being logged" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/970647
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959352 in lxc (Ubuntu) "Ephemeral containers have "/rootfs" prefix in /proc/self/maps entries" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959352
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959560 in AppArmor "deny mount does not work correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959560
 * mdeslaur slaps ubottu
<tyhicks> jjohansen: There was a considerable delay after I prodded you. Sounds like you need to fix a regression in your status reporting script this week, too. ;)
 * jjohansen should just paste those in a form ubottu doesn't recognize
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<mdeslaur> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<mdeslaur> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lxsession.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/bristol.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/egroupware-egw-pear.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/b2evolution.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gnome-subtitles.html
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<mdeslaur> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<mdeslaur> Thanks everyone!
<mdeslaur> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  2 18:14:25 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-02-18.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-02-18.01.html
<tyhicks> Thanks mdeslaur
<jjohansen> thanks mdeslaur
<micahg> thanks md
<micahg> thanks mdeslaur
<soren> o/
<soren> stgraber: Am I an hour early?
<stgraber> soren: according to the UTC time on the wiki, yes. According to my phone, no ;)
<stgraber> soren: I assumed the wiki was right
<stgraber> as we decided not to change our UTC meeting time with DST, I think having it in an hour makes sense
<stgraber> (or I got confused by timezones/dst/... again ;))
<MrChrisDruif> No meeting?
<soren> stgraber: You're right. I have too many meetings this time of day, got confused. In 47Â½ minutes it is.
<MrChrisDruif> soren; the Technical Board meeting?
<soren> MrChrisDruif: Yes.
<MrChrisDruif> Hmm, then it's not not on the Fridge Calendar
<MrChrisDruif> P.s. there isn't a link to the Agenda
<scott-work> is the TB meeting happening here?
<MrChrisDruif> scott-work; should start in a few minutes
<cjwatson> yes
<soren> o/
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  2 21:01:08 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<stgraber> #topic Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Action review
<stgraber> soren: what's the status of "Soren agreed to send mail regarding meeting time changes from the prior meeting."?
<soren> Hm.
<soren> I don't think I ever got around to doing that, I'm afraid.
<stgraber> ok, I'll keep that one in the list then
<soren> Sorry, refresh my memory. We did agree to keep the UTC time, right?
<soren> So the e-mail was to share that decision with anyone else following the list?
<cjwatson> I believe so
<stgraber> yeah, I think the idea was to wait for everyone to be on DST (now done) and see if that works, if it does, then stay on UTC
<soren> Cool.
<stgraber> #topic ubuntu studio LTS status for 12.04
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ubuntu studio LTS status for 12.04
<stgraber> scott-work: hello
<scott-work> hello stgraber
<scott-work> et al
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/12.04/LTS-Proposal
<cjwatson> this is looking better-fleshed-out this time, thanks
<scott-work> i had some help :)
<stgraber> soren: marking your action has done, thanks for the e-mail
<cjwatson> the CVE review doesn't look too bad, indeed
 * soren tips his hat in stgraber's general direction
 * scott-work wants to note that a lightning storm is moving in and he might lose connection
<cjwatson> libav-extra is the main source of recent CVEs, but I guess that many of those are probably carried over from libav
 * kees is late but here now.
<cjwatson> 2008 clearly sucked for AV packages ;-)
<stgraber> kees: cool, so we actually have quorum now, thanks for joining!
 * stgraber runs an extra germinate diff with kubuntu and edubuntu added, to see what's truely unique to ubuntu-studio
<stgraber> roughly getting an extra 40 source packages out of the list (that will have to be coordinated with the other flavours)
<stgraber> so that's (if my script is correct) the list of source packages that are only shipped by ubuntu-studio: http://paste.ubuntu.com/912067/
<stgraber> and that's the same list but only for these with ubuntu delta: http://paste.ubuntu.com/912068/
<cjwatson> I think I'm OK with this at this point
<cjwatson> nothing is jumping out at me as obviously unsuitable, and the US team is clearly dedicated
<stgraber> the only scary thing I see in the list is linux-lowlatency
<stgraber> but I must admit not being too familiar with the delta between our standard kernel and linux-lowlatency
<cjwatson> that one did get explicitly discussed and agreed
<scott-work> stgraber:  it is very close the the -generic kernel and does not require the invasive patch ala -rt kernel
<stgraber> cool
 * kees nods
<stgraber> are there any plan to make lowlatency variants of the LTS backport kernels?
<cjwatson> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-lowlatency
<scott-work> stgraber: i am unaware of any plans
<scott-work> at least at the current time
<stgraber> ok, any other question or are we ready to vote?
<soren> I have no further questions.
<stgraber> #startvote Ubuntu Studio 3 years LTS for 12.04
<stgraber> #vote Ubuntu Studio 3 years LTS for 12.04
<meetingology> Please vote on: Ubuntu Studio 3 years LTS for 12.04
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cjwatson> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjwatson
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<soren> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from soren
<kees> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from kees
<stgraber> #envote
<stgraber> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Ubuntu Studio 3 years LTS for 12.04
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<stgraber> good, one more LTS flavour ;)
<scott-work> thank you :)
<micahg> o/
<cjwatson> thank *you*, you're the one who just signed up for a bunch of work ;-
<cjwatson> ;-)
<cjwatson> micahg: ?
<micahg> just wanted to point out libav-extra has been folded into libav, but I guess it's not applicable for the LTS as well that next cycle it's likely to drop to universe, but again not relevant, sorry
<cjwatson> I guess it'll just mean less work overall?
<micahg> and libav-extra is usually uploaded in concert with libav by the security-team
<stgraber> good to know
<micahg> well, it'll be more work in 12.10 as the security team won't be supporting it anymore, but in 12.04 it's fine
<cjwatson> ah, I see
<cjwatson> OK
<stgraber> Riddell: ping
<micahg> it's still separate sources in precise
<Riddell> hi
<stgraber> #topic Kubuntu Future
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Future
 * ScottK looks up.
<Riddell> as you'll know canonical doesn't want to support kubuntu in future
<Riddell> so I wanted to check the tech board was fine to have an ubuntu flavour sponsored by other companies
<Riddell> I know it's not an especially techy question
<Riddell> but if e.g. we had to change name because canonical didn't want it sponsored by other companies it would need tech board support
<Riddell> ..
<cjwatson> We're fine having flavours not sponsored by Canonical, so I don't see why another company would be a problem if it were working within Ubuntu community processes
<cjwatson> Has anyone suggested that it might be a problem?
<Riddell> yes we'd certainly want to be within the ubuntu project properly
<kees> yeah, I can't imagine a problem with this.
<ScottK> I think Riddell is checking in advance out of an abundance of caution.
<Riddell> yes
<cjwatson> Non-Canonical corporate investment in Ubuntu seems like the kind of thing we should welcome with open arms, TBH
<cjwatson> I can't speak for trademark issues, that's above my pay grade :)
<Riddell> lovely thanks, that's all I wanted
<cjwatson> (Is this actively on the cards, or is it checking in advance - or can you not say right now?)
<Riddell> there's various companies who have contacted me to go "waa we depend on kubuntu, how can we help"
<Riddell> so maybe
<stgraber> the other flavours have been running for years without Canonical sponsorship (outside of the base infrastructure) and I don't see much difference between having some funding coming from another company vs community funding/resources
<soren> Sorry, I've completely missed this. Where has this decision been published?
<Riddell> soren: canonical not supporting kubuntu?
<soren> I guess I don't pay much attention to Kubuntu "forums" (in the broadest possible sense of "forums")
<soren> Riddell: Yes.
<Riddell> don't you follow the #riddell hashtag on twitter?!
<soren> No.
<Riddell> I'm insulted
<Riddell> :)
<ScottK> Apparently not Jono's blog either.
<soren> Yo ushould be.
<cjwatson> soren: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2012-February/005782.html
<soren> I follow everyone but you.
<soren> :)
 * soren hugs Riddell 
<soren> ScottK: Perhaps not quite as religiously as some. :)
<ScottK> ;-)
<stgraber> FWIW there's also a list of what Canonical provides to all approved flavours here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedFlavors
<stgraber> I'm happy to have that wiki page extended with resources provided by other companies/individuals though edits to that page should probably be done by the TB
<cjwatson> makes sense
<cjwatson> although maybe links to a separate page unless they're resources committed for flavours in general rather than for a single flavour
<stgraber> I probably should add myself to that list as I'm providing daily upgrade testing for all flavours that have a profile defined in update-manager
<stgraber> cjwatson: indeed, makes sense
<stgraber> Riddell: anything else on this topic?
<Riddell> not from me thanks
<stgraber> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Select a chair for the next meeting
<stgraber> everyone happy to let mdz chair the next one?
<kees> sure
<soren> Sure.
<soren> stgraber: Thanks for stepping up this time!
<stgraber> soren: np
<stgraber> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<stgraber> anything?
<kees> nothing from me
<soren> nope
<stgraber> ok, thanks everyone for attending
<cjwatson> nor I
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  2 21:41:34 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-02-21.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-02-21.01.html
 * cjwatson goes back to build failures :)
<kees> thank stgraber!
<kees> *thanks
<MrChrisDruif> <_<"
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-03
<lynxman> o/
<jamespage> o/
<hallyn> \o
<smb>  /o\
<roaksoax> o/
<jamespage> smb: that bad?
<utlemming> o/
<smb> jamespage, maybe not. just trying to cope with multiple streams of input :)
<zul> heylo
<jamespage> ok - lets get started
<jamespage> #startmeeting Ubuntu Server Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  3 16:02:27 2012 UTC.  The chair is jamespage. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<adam_g> o/
<jamespage> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage> SpamapS: invite aquette to next server team meeting to discuss servercloud-p-cloud-power-management
<smoser> o/
<jamespage> hmm - guess that either did not happen or aquette could not make it
<jamespage> moving on
<jamespage> #topic Precise Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Precise Development
<jamespage> #topic Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<jamespage> OK  - lets do the list...
<jamespage> bug 960276
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 960276 in nova (Ubuntu) "a bad AMI can hang an entire compute node" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/960276
<jamespage> zul - has the new patch for console logging landed yet?
<zul> jamespage: landed in our packaging hasnt landed upstream yet
<jamespage> zul: ack
<jamespage> bug 883988
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883988 in glance (Ubuntu Precise) "db migration failing when upgrading glance - trying to create existing tables" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883988
<adam_g> jamespage: fixed upstream finally, will trickle into ubuntu with our next glance upload
<adam_g> or Essex final
<jamespage> +1
<zul> or rc3
<jamespage> lol
<jamespage> bug 924739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924739 in squid3 (Ubuntu Precise) "after upgrade from oneiric to precise, previous squid config unused, cannot be used when relocated" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924739
<jamespage> adam_g, I said I would help out with that last week - my bad - catchup later
<jamespage> bug 928990
<adam_g> k
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928990 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "fsck / dirty filesystem on instance is death" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928990
<lynxman> o/
<jamespage> utlemming, found any time to look at that yet?
<utlemming> I started, but got distracted on other things. I hope to get that done this week.
<jamespage> utlemming, ack - I'm going to assign you the bug (had to think hard back to last week)
<jamespage> bug 930916
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 930916 in amavisd-new (Ubuntu) "amavis start-stop script fails to stop amavisd" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930916
<jamespage> assigned to SpamapS
<jamespage> who is not here....
<jamespage> I'll poke him about that and some php5 stuff as well later
<jamespage> adam_g: bug 966115
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966115 in nova (Ubuntu) "nova-api{,-os-compute,-ec2,-os-volume} relationship" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966115
<adam_g> jamespage: on my TODO today
<jamespage> \o/
<jamespage> great
<jamespage> bug 880339 appears to be blocked on lack of information from the reported ATM
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 880339 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Precise) "AppArmor profile needs update" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880339
<jamespage> bug 907197
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907197 in nova (Ubuntu) "ip address can't be injected into the instance when using lxc " [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907197
<jamespage> zul: still pending a response? have you seen this issue yourself?
<zul> no i havent, i think we should take it off our list
<jamespage> zul: as we don't have confirmation at this point I think that makes sense
<jamespage> bug 916065
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 916065 in php5 (Ubuntu Precise) "php5 sessionmanagement ignores values in custom ini files" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/916065
<jamespage> I need to catch SpamapS about
<jamespage> bug 966069
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966069 in horizon (Ubuntu) "/etc/apache2/conf.d/dashboard.conf contains wrong paths in the Ubuntu package" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966069
<jamespage> looks like that is pending upload?
<jamespage> yes it is...
<adam_g> jamespage: waiting for the horizon rc
<jamespage> bug 967430
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967430 in cobbler (Ubuntu) "Switching to internal python tftp server fails due to file name change" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967430
 * ttx is waiting for the horizon rc too
<ttx> damn californians
<ttx> adam_g: note that Glance RC3 will include your db fix
<adam_g> ttx: saw that one, thanks
<jamespage> marvellous
<ttx> should be out today or early tomorrow
<jamespage> roaksoax, are you going to have time to pickup bug 967430?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967430 in cobbler (Ubuntu) "Switching to internal python tftp server fails due to file name change" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967430
<roaksoax> jamespage: i sure hope so
<roaksoax> by the end of the week
<jamespage> great
<roaksoax> assigning it to myself
<jamespage> roaksoax, one step ahead of you...
<jamespage> bug 901881
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 901881 in glance (Ubuntu) "nova and glance should depend on python-keystone" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901881
<adam_g> jamespage: still waiting on the keystone MIR to create the direct Depends
<zul> jamespage: im hoping next week for that one
<jamespage> zul: ack
<jamespage> scans the rest of the list....
<jamespage> there are a few FTBFS that need dealing with - genshi is already on the report
<jamespage> but I also saw pacemaker and heartbeat in the latest rebuild test....
<jamespage> I'll get bugs raised and them added to the list...
<jamespage> #action jamespage to raise bugs for FTBFS for server related packages from latest rebuild test.
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to raise bugs for FTBFS for server related packages from latest rebuild test.
<adam_g> i fixed the cluster-glue build last night, that should resolve the pacemaker + heartbeat builds. is there a way to re-trigger those without a new upload to each, now that the dependency is fixed?
<roaksoax> uhmm I though I had fixed pacemaker's FTBFS
<jamespage> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20120328-precise.html
<jamespage> roaksoax, looks like there is a new one :-)
<roaksoax> adam_g: yes, with a no change upload. I'll take care of it
<adam_g> thanks
<jamespage> those two packages both have the same issue - glibc headers have changed structure...
<jamespage> memcached is also failing tests on i386 - I'm looking at that
<adam_g> the issue was in the cluster-glue library they build against, which is fixed now. they should both build okay
<jamespage> MIR's - zul: sounds like keystone should be complete in the next week or so?
<zul> hopefully
<zul> i think most of the issues have been resolved, horizon is next on the list i think
<roaksoax> adam_g: awesome!
<jamespage> roaksoax, how about the cobbler MIR?
<roaksoax> jamespage: looking at it now
<roaksoax> jamespage: jdstrand has it assigned so I guess he's conducting his review work on it, or he will soon
<jamespage> great
<roaksoax> MAAS is also queued
<jamespage> Final Freeze kicks in on the 12th of April which is only 9 days away
<jamespage> busy busy busy!
<roaksoax> s/queued/waiting for final review after commends/
<jamespage> next
<jamespage> #topic Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<jamespage> I did have a quick scan through these before the meeting
<jamespage> I could not see anything I though needed specific dicussion but please can you all start to review any outstanding work items you have
<jamespage> and POSTPONE anything that won't make this release.
<jamespage> anything that needs to make this release but is in trouble - start shouting loud!
<jamespage> Anything else anyone wants to mention about precise development?
<jamespage> great
<jamespage> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> Openstack Developer Summit in two weeks time
<jamespage> a fair few people are attending summit and/or conference
<jamespage> any other events people want to mention?
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<jamespage> hggdh - around?
<jamespage> all yours
<jamespage> or maybe not
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Hi. I think I found another thing where libvirt does not exactly do the right things with xen. Affecting HVM guests. Luckily it is not fatal-
<smb> Need to dig a bit more there.
<smb> Beside that...
<smb> Daviey, iscsitarget?
<zul> iscsitarget?
<jamespage> smb: iscsitarget?
<smb> zul, A fix I backported to the package, but I cannot upload
<smb> bug 962332
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 882540 in iscsitarget (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #962332 kernel crash whenever it is accessed" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/882540
<Daviey> smb: So, sorry
<Daviey> smb: I will make sure it is uploaded *today* without fail.
<smb> Daviey, Thank you master. :)
<jamespage> smb: any other kernel related matters to raise
<jamespage> ?
<jamespage> or does anyone have anything they want to raise with smb?
<smb> I don't think so
<jamespage> OK
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing to report. Any questions for me?
<jamespage> ARM server all looking sweet for precise then?
<rbasak> It looks good
<jamespage> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<jamespage> I have one item to raise
<jamespage> Ursinha has now fixed the Triage Report - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/triage-report.html
<Ursinha> \o/
<jamespage> we have alot of 'New' bugs - bugs which have been assigned a priority but triaged no further than that.
<jamespage> about 260 of them
<jamespage> (thanks Ursinha)
<hallyn> tnachen: \o
<zul> jamespage: keeping you busy i see :)
<jamespage> it would be great if people can ensure that these get some focus of the next week or so - specifically anything that might be an issue in precise
<jamespage> I found at least three this morning
<hallyn> tnachen is looking at getting involved with ubuntu server, and managed to sit through this whole meeting.  just wanted to introduce him
<jamespage> hi tnachen: welcome!
<tnachen> hi all, I emailed to ubuntu-server about the mentor program I saw on the wiki
<tnachen> and hallyn gladly to volunteer to lead the newbie (me)
<tnachen> I'll be working with him to learn more about libvirt and hopefully contribute!
<jamespage> \o/
<hallyn> i second that exuberance
<rbasak> I'm waiting on bug 968753 to be sponsored - it looks like an issue with ssh on precise but on i386 only. I presume it'll be picked up in time.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 968753 in openssh (Ubuntu) "ssh crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968753
<rbasak> (it got reported over the weekend with a pile of dupes)
<jamespage> rbasak, poke someone if it does not get picked up before the weekend
<rbasak> jamespage: will do, thanks
<jamespage> anything else?
<jamespage> ......
<jamespage> .....
<jamespage> ....
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> ..
<jamespage> .
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> Comgrats jamespage :)
<Daviey> Congrats*
<jamespage> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<jamespage> Tues 10th April 1600 UTC - back here again!
<jamespage> see you all then!
<jamespage> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  3 16:46:59 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-03-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-03-16.02.html
<jamespage> thanks Daviey!
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  3 17:00:57 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<tgardner> o/
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<apw> o/
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<ppisati> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> P/omap4: mainly config changes trying to mimic master/generic config as much as possible. The dss/video issue (lp963512) found in the previous rebase is still unresolved (waiting for a new panda board since my own broke down exactly the day after the issue came up) - for the time being (kernel freeze) we are gonna stay with 3.2.0-1411.14 as it is good and no one complained about it, but as soon as i get the new board, it'll be a 
<ppisati> lp971091 ("Pandaboard ES freezes with the default CPU scaling governor ondemand"): i'm investigating this one with the reporter (sending debug kernels&c).
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.04.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || hardware-p-kernel-delta-review         || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || hardware-p-kernel-config-review        || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-p-kernel-versions-and-flavors || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> apw and I are aware of our work items, we'll get them closed before final.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
<cking> Power management:
<cking>  * Unity 2D vs 3D on Precise Beta 2 measurements
<cking>    http://zinc.canonical.com/~cking/power-benchmarking/unity-beta2-results
<cking>    And that wraps up these Blueprint items for Precise.
<cking> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Kernel Freeze is this Thurs Apr 5.  I've already began prepping our
<ogasawara> final upload prior to freeze and plan to upload after the meeting.  If
<ogasawara> they are any patches which need to land, let us know immediately.  After
<ogasawara> Kernel Freeze, all patches are subject to our SRU policy and uploads
<ogasawara> will only be granted at the discression of the release team.
<ogasawara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/StablePatchFormat
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 5 - Kernel Freeze (~2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 12 - Final Freeze (~1 week)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 19 - Release Candidate (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 26 - Final Release (~3 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> Currently we have 72 CVEs on our radar, with one new CVE added this week.
<apw> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<apw>  
<apw> Overall the backlog has increased by one CVE this week:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (Apr. 03):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy    - 2.6.24-31.101 - Nothing this cycle
<bjf>  * Lucid    - 2.6.32-41.88  - Verification; 52 commits in total.
<bjf>  * Maverick - 2.6.35-32.68  - Verification; 9 commits in total. NOTE: THIS IS THE LAST MAVERICK KERNEL!
<bjf>  * Natty    - 2.6.38-14.58  - Verification; 12 commits in total. Mostly eCryptfs and KVM.
<bjf>  * Oneiric  - 3.0.0-17.30   - Verification; 4 stable upstream releases (194 commits).
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf> Note: We are seeing some issues being reported for the Oneiric kernel. We
<bjf>       are hitting these as we become aware of them.
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  3 17:05:40 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-03-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-03-17.00.html
<czajkowski> ogra_: highvoltage stgraber drubin ping
<highvoltage> pong
<czajkowski> EMEA
 * highvoltage is ready to vote
<highvoltage> :p
 * stgraber waves
<ogra_> oops, i'm late
<czajkowski> need someone else
<czajkowski> huzah
<czajkowski> we have 4
<highvoltage> ogra_: you're actually early! I was just joking
<ogra_> do we have utlemming ?
<stgraber> oh right, utlemming, I'm ready to vote ;)
 * ogra_ too :)
<iulian> 'ey!
<czajkowski> utlemming: ping
<stgraber> czajkowski: I'm poking him
<stgraber> let's see if that helped
<stgraber> apparantly not
<czajkowski> came home for nothing :(
 * iulian sighs.
<highvoltage> well, look at it this way. you have a free hour now :)
<czajkowski> aye get back into car and drive back to family meet up
<czajkowski> toodles
<highvoltage> czajkowski: unless we take it to email?
<highvoltage> ok, sounds fine. meeting adjourned then?
<ogra_> why would we ? the applicant didnt show up
 * iulian nods.
<ogra_> yeah, adjourned i'd say
 * ogra_ vanishes off into the night 
<iulian> I personally don't think we should take it to email. But it's up to you guys.
<highvoltage> nah
<highvoltage> (nah as in, "yes, indeed")
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-04
 * phillw yawns & stretches.... meeting time?
<astraljava> It's supposed to.
<phillw> balloons: ping :)
<phillw> hmm, I can't find him :/ I'll give it a couple of minutes more then I guess we hold a short meeting.
<astraljava> Ok.
<astraljava> Wonder if _he_ just forget, after sending the reminder about the changed schedule. :)
<astraljava> forgot*
<phillw> @startmeeting QA meeting
<meetingology> phillw: Error: "startmeeting" is not a valid command.
<phillw> #startmeeting QA Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr  4 14:12:05 2012 UTC.  The chair is phillw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<astraljava> phillw: Use hash.
<phillw> hi, you'll have to put up with me!
<phillw> can all present please say aye (or the usual o/)
<astraljava> o/
<phillw> this will be a really short meeting :/
<astraljava> Heh, indeed.
<phillw> #topic Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Updates
<phillw> is there anyone in from the Ubuntu team?
<phillw> #topic Flavour Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Flavour Updates
<phillw> #topic Lubuntu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Lubuntu
<phillw> All testing is going well, so nothing to really report
<phillw> kanliot: will be liasing with QA during my absence, I know he will be extended the help & support you have given me
<kanliot> thanks phillw
<phillw> #topic Flavours
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Flavours
<phillw> Any one in from other flavours who can give an update?
 * astraljava is in for Xubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
<phillw> #topic Xubuntu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Xubuntu
<phillw> astraljava: the floor is yours.
<astraljava> Thanks phillw. Some small changes regarding artwork.
<astraljava> There's been a change to mixer settings.
<astraljava> We now prefer pavucontrol over xfce4-mixer for Xubuntu session.
<astraljava> It partially works, unmuting still isn't fool-proof.
<astraljava> There was also an icon issue found in indicator-plugin.
<astraljava> There are _no_ icons if T-bird is not running, but placeholders when it is. It also concerns Evolution, so not technically Xubuntu-related only.
<astraljava> New translations were requested for Abiword.
<astraljava> I'm working on it together with the Debian maintainer, but expecting to just update the po/ directory.
<astraljava> Nothing more for Xubuntu, IIRC.
<astraljava> ..
<phillw> astraljava: thanks
<phillw> #topic Ubuntu Studio
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Studio
<astraljava> New -lowlatency kernel is landing soon-ish, needing lots of testing.
<astraljava> Just found out that ubuntustudio-audio meta-package isn't installed by default, which worries me greatly.
<astraljava> Also wanting to make the mixer change like Xubuntu.
<astraljava> I'm working on the issue together with mr_pouit and other Xubuntu devs.
<astraljava> Nothing more that I can think of right now.
<astraljava> ..
<phillw> astraljava: thanks
<phillw> #Ubuntu Updates
<phillw> #topic Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Updates
<phillw> skaet: could you give us any news on Ubuntu, please?
 * phillw did ask in -release if anyone was available, it seems not.
<phillw> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Any Other Business
<phillw> has anyone got any thing to add, with the exception of why no one is here!
 * astraljava wonders if this new schedule is actually working out for everyone...
<phillw> I'll catch up with balloons and find out what has happened... the email was sent!
<EffenbergAway> I got no reply from Ballons in e-mails today, maybe he's busy with some other urgency
 * skaet waves,   just a sec
<phillw> skaet: of course. do you want topic changing back to Ubuntu Updates?
<skaet> Ubuntu will be kernel freezing on tomorrow at 2100 UTC.    Am wondering how the low latency kernel state.
<phillw> #topic Ubuntu Update
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Update
<skaet> phillw,  no matter.
<skaet> Dates upcoming,   Kernel Freeze - April 5,    Final Freeze - April 12 (all important bug fixes should be added by this date)
<skaet> Release Candidate Week starts - April 19 (all images produced after this point will need testing), as they could be the one we ship.
<skaet> April 26 - Release :)
<skaet> that's the schedule for the month coming up...
<phillw> skaet: has any progress been made on bug 972285 if there is a kernel freeze coming up?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 972285 in linux (Ubuntu) "segmentation fault when start on linux 3.0.0-18-generic" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/972285
<skaet> A big thank you to the folks who got the last bug fixes in and tested.   Beta 2 is looking good overall - not seeing any serious spikeds.
<skaet> s/spikeds/spikes where we aren't expecting them in bug traffic ;) /
<phillw> the whole of this cycle has been outstandingly stable :)
<EffenbergAway> o/
<skaet> :)
<phillw> EffenbergAway: the floor is yours
<skaet> phillw,  just know about that one,  what is in the bug.   Looks like the kernel team is on it.
<BEC> my first time testing & it seems going smooth after my first run :D
<skaet> and a possible reversion would work.
 * skaet ends 
<EffenbergAway> There is a growing number of users complaining about bug 951404 (and dups).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 951404 in lightdm (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubuntu 12.04 session don't open with lightdm" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/951404
<EffenbergAway> I'm worried about it
<EffenbergAway> Forum staff members asked for advice. It looks like removing unity-greeter for gtk is the only workaround for some
<phillw> EffenbergAway: it has been allocated to the Canonical Desktop Team, so I'm sure it is being worked on
<EffenbergAway> Thanks Philw :)
<BEC> I mailed yesternight about LyX; could someone check the package in the Software Center plz?
<phillw> skaet: could you ask the Desktop team for an update and put it onto the bug?
<EffenbergAway> BEC: 455.aMB/761.5MB
<BEC> exactly; isn't that too big? on 10.04 it is around 10.5M
<BEC> total
<phillw> BEC: yeah, I saw that bug in my emails... a bit odd, to say the least.
<skaet> phillw,  have put out some pings.    will ask.
<BEC> btw didn't bug it
<BEC> should i?
<phillw> BEC: yes please
<BEC> thx
<BEC> i will
<phillw> any one else?
<EffenbergAway> Build includes debug info? Probably strip and o3?
<BEC> the following bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/969485 & https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/969700; are they gona be fixed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 969485 in linux (Ubuntu) "Fan working non-stop" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 969700 in linux (Ubuntu) "Sound imbalance" [Medium,Confirmed]
<BEC> btw, a a few months ago I lost the suspend & hibernate features on 10.04; when I use them the system shutdowns instead; not sure of the reason
<BEC> any idea of its possible cause?
<phillw> BEC: I've found that getting a few 'affects me' people onto a bug gets it noticed as it raises the heat.
<BEC> i noticed that too; so they might not get a fix soon?
<phillw> Well, thanks to those who made it. Hopfully for next week more people will have read their e-mails about the new time of the meeting.
<phillw> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr  4 14:44:53 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-04-14.12.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-04-14.12.html
<seb128> EffenbergAway, hey
<skaet> phillw ^ is EffenbergAway around?    some questions about that bug.
<EffenbergAway> Hi
<EffenbergAway> sorry, was afk
<EffenbergAway> shoot!
<skaet> seb128 ^
<seb128> EffenbergAway, hey, skaet mentioned you get some lightdm issues?
<seb128> EffenbergAway, can you describe exactly what happens? (did you open a bug about it, can you give the number?)
<EffenbergAway> Yes, there seem to be some users that can't get past lightdm. They select session, user, enter password, screen goes black, and back to lightdm
<EffenbergAway> Some mentioned removing unity-greeter, using gtk-greeter fixes
<EffenbergAway> The old solution (from OO cycle), to remove .Xauthority is not working
<EffenbergAway> It seems to happen with people that updated from OO, not with fresh installs of Beta 2
<EffenbergAway> newbies get stuck - no desktop - no way of getting support
<EffenbergAway> https://launchpad.net/bugs/951404
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 951404 in lightdm (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubuntu 12.04 session don't open with lightdm" [High,Confirmed]
<EffenbergAway> there are dups... and UbuntuForums users that haven't +1'd in these reports
<EffenbergAway> I've also seen a number of occurrences in local ubuntu forums (Brazil)
<EffenbergAway> No definitive workaround known
<seb128> EffenbergAway, one part of issues could have been the unity-greeter bugs fixed with yesterday update
 * phillw this room is booked for a meeting in 2 minutes - can you please move over to #ubuntu-testing, please :)
<seb128> EffenbergAway, can you get somebody who has the issue to reply to my questions on that bug?
<seb128> phillw, sure, or #ubuntu-bugs
<seb128> phillw, EffenbergAway: can you join #ubuntu-bugs?
<EffenbergAway> sure, moving, thanks
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr  4 15:03:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * stgraber waves
<ev> hi
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson)
<slangasek> bdmurray cjwatson ogra slangasek jodh barry infinity doko ev stgraber
<bdmurray> bug triage of ios-testing bug reports
<bdmurray> update-manager bug triage
<bdmurray> triage of update-manager bug regarding nonofficial mirrors and dist upgrades bug 289952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289952 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager rewrites sources.list to only use official mirrors" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289952
<bdmurray> fixed update-manager bug 969182
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 969182 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "alternate-cd-upgrade from 10.04 lts to 12.04 lts beta failed" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969182
<bdmurray> duplicate consolidation of bug 837525 using udd
<bdmurray> bug triage of duplicates of bug 541595 (47 more marked)
<bdmurray> modifications to collect-bug-data to check search_criteria statuses too
<bdmurray> wrote an iso-testing tracker defect querier
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 837525 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "package PACKAGE failed to install/upgrade: error writing to '<standard output>': No such file or directory" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837525
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 541595 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "[Master] package failed to install/upgrade: package is already installed and configured" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/541595
<bdmurray> fixed calamaris bug 569514, forwarded patch to debian
<bdmurray> performance review
<bdmurray> tried to help the ubuntu rtl team subscribe to all bugs tagged rtl
<bdmurray> holiday on the 2nd and 3rd
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569514 in calamaris (Debian) "Doesn't work for squid3 logs" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569514
<bdmurray> . done
<cjwatson> os-prober/grub2 rearrangements to fix bug 963471.
<cjwatson> Some cross-building fixes.
<cjwatson> Added an installer facility to preseed the default partition table type (partman-partitioning/default_label), useful for testing GPT.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 963471 in os-prober (Ubuntu) "Not all OS shown in grub-install screen at end of installation" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963471
<cjwatson> Worked around the worst of the TLS 1.2 problems with OpenSSL 1.0.1, as suggested by upstream (bug 965371).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 965371 in openssl (Ubuntu Precise) "HTTPS requests fail on some sites on Ubuntu 12.04" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/965371
<cjwatson> Merged new aptitude, to handle multiarch a bit better (bug 831768).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831768 in aptitude (Ubuntu Precise) "aptitude cannot handle conflicts with multiarch enabled" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831768
<cjwatson> Fixed biosgrub method display in ubiquity (bug 969038).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 969038 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Cannot create bios boot partition from manual partitioner in ubiquity" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969038
<cjwatson> Fixed a number of test rebuild failures in main, and analysed a number of the rest.
<cjwatson> Added 4K sector support to grub2, and then fixed a regression caused by that (bug 972250).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 972250 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "regression from 4k_sectors.patch: "non-sector-aligned data is found in the core file"" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/972250
<cjwatson> Fixed autopkgtest support in ubiquity.
<cjwatson> Working on queue API in Launchpad.  Still some way off complete, though making progress.
<cjwatson> Working on bug 792652.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 792652 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "ubiquity crashed with ValueError in command(): I/O operation on closed file" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/792652
<cjwatson> done
<cjwatson> ogra's off
<cjwatson> slangasek:
<slangasek> sorry, was digesting the above :)
<slangasek>  * ongoing work around partner repo
<slangasek>  * did some work over the weekend looking into cross-buildability of the base system; applied some fixes, including some to apt
<slangasek>  * preparing an apt upload for a few issues (bug #924628, bug #968828, et al)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924628 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "package libapt-pkg4.12 0.8.16~exp12ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: './usr/share/locale/ar/LC_MESSAGES/libapt-pkg4.12.mo' is different from the same file on the system" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924628
<slangasek>  * discussions around the future strategy of init in Ubuntu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 968828 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt-get build-dep -a $arch has wrong behavior for Build-Depends-Indep" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968828
<slangasek>  * still working on the update-notifier changes to fix bug #876298
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 876298 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "[FFe] [MASTER] We need to better handle external payloads (Flash, msttcorefonts) not being available." [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876298
<slangasek>  * performance reviews
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> jodh:
<jodh> * [boot/upstart]: Discussions around the future strategy of init in Ubuntu.
<jodh> * [boot/plymouth]:
<jodh>   * Working on Plymouth SIGSEGV bug (553745 - 270 duplicates!)
<jodh>     We can now recreate the problem, which is the first step to
<jodh>     understanding it. Still proving difficult to track down what is
<jodh>     causing the corruption, but it appears to be related to the script plugin.
<jodh>   * Updated wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Plymouth
<jodh> â±
<jodh>  
<slangasek> no barry or infinity today
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - bug triage (python2.7)
<doko> - bug fix uploads for python2.7, gcc-4.7, mpfr4, pcsc-lite, bash, gccgo
<doko> - started test rebuild, fortunately amoog did file the reports
<doko> - analyzed and filed gcc-4.7 build failures (debian). http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=ftbfs-gcc-4.7;users=debian-gcc@lists.debian.org
<doko> - self appraisal
<doko> - reproduce build failures with GCC Linaro
<doko> - TODO for tomorrow: grub testing (broken windows partition on mac), lts upgrade version n
<doko> umber checks
<doko> - next week will be short (Fri and Mon bank holidays)
<doko> (done)
<ev> - Went to Cassandra Europe last Wednesday. Trip report forthcoming, but if you
<ev>   want a taste:
<ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=48667#txn-862810
<ev> - Discussed Cassandra backup strategies with James.
<ev> - The crash database is finally completely live as of April 2nd. Due to a
<ev>   deployment bug, up until a few days ago it wasn't handling core file
<ev>   submissions, and thus was not bucketing binary crashes.
<ev> - Cowboyed a few fixes to the production retracer with the IS team.
<ev> - Working on a Django and d3.js (do check it out d3, it's awesome) web
<ev>   application for crash database statistics.
<ev> - Working with IS to continue the deployment of the crash database components,
<ev>   better handle retracer overload.
<ev>   - Suggestions welcome on ways to improve apport-retrace performance. We're
<ev>     going to have something watching the Rabbit queue, and using a RED-like
<ev>     algorithm:
<slangasek> doko: pcsc-lite> did you do rebuild tests of the revdeps? :)
<ev>     http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Adv-Routing-HOWTO/lartc.adv-qdisc.red.html
<ev>     not accepting some core file submissions until things quiet back down.
<ev> - Worked with Matthew to review his mock up of the design for the statistics
<ev>   website.
<ev> - Reviewed the installation and upgrade pages of the 12.04 website for the
<ev>   web team.
<ev> - We saw 1505 unique problems (buckets) yesterday (and *many* instances of
<ev>   those problems).
<ev> - 0 new whoopsie bugs. Please keep an eye on that process on your systems and
<ev>   do let me know if it gets out of hand.
<ev> (done)
<doko> slangasek, no =-/
<doko> adding to my list
<stgraber> - ISO tracker
<stgraber>  - Worked on a series of bugfixes that are now applied to http://iso.qa.dev.stgraber.org
<stgraber>  - Wrote a python module to access the tracker API, works with python2 and python3 and is
<stgraber>    fully tested. This will be the recommended way to access the API.
<stgraber>    lp:~ubuntu-qa-website-devel/ubuntu-qa-website/python-qatracker
<stgraber>  - Updating API documentation on the website now, will then ask IS to update production.
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Some more LXC testing and fixes for per-container apparmor profile and making sure
<stgraber>    we don't get actions weirdly denied by apparmor. Looks like we caught them all finally.
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - Uploaded a new ifupdown cleaning up /etc/network/interfaces on systems that go invalid
<stgraber>    dns-nameservers entries from netcfg. Also fixes the broadcast address on systems with
<stgraber>    static config.
<stgraber>  - Updated regexp in resolvconf to match multiple entries in dns-nameservers
<stgraber> - Installer
<stgraber>  - One minor ubiquity-dm fix for ubuntu studio
<slangasek> doko: could you please check that, at *least* for main? (freerdp/wpasupplicant)  since this change is landing past your own autobuild test ;)
<stgraber> - Partner archive
<stgraber>  - Did some packaging and tests
<stgraber>  - Synced libva from Debian to have it multi-arched, fixed two FTBFS caused by the new libva
<stgraber>  - Made zenity multi-arch:foreign which should allow vmware-view-client to be installed on amd64
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Beta 2 release
<stgraber>  - Improved queuebot some more
<stgraber>  - Released and uploaded the final (I hope) LTSP for 12.04, 5.3.7
<stgraber>  - Fixed all the bugs discovered during ISO testing for Edubuntu
<doko> slangasek, will do
<stgraber>  - Fixed an annoying bug in irssi (alt-backspace not working)
<stgraber>  - Performance review
<stgraber> - Vacation and timezone change
<stgraber>  - I'll be off on Friday (6th) and Monday (9th)
<stgraber>  - I'll then be working from Europe (CEST) until the 29th
<stgraber> - TODO this week (today/tomorrow)
<slangasek> thanks
<stgraber>  - Test current ISO tracker and file RT ticket for update of production
<stgraber>  - Look at bug 873468
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 873468 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "Update to latest Release failed for overloaded mirrors with no descriptive error message" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873468
<stgraber>  - Spend any remaining time on installer bugs.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<slangasek> any questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<bdmurray> when I was looking at update-manager bugs I ran across bug 289952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289952 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager rewrites sources.list to only use official mirrors" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289952
<cjwatson> there's a config knob for that, though it isn't well-documented
<bdmurray> and it just seems to me that option for allowing third party sources isn't well known
<slangasek> hmm, this was discussed at UDS
<bdmurray> cjwatson: right, so I wonder what we can do to make it more well documented
<slangasek> it was agreed we should be disabling third-party sources for the upgrade, but re-enabling them afterwards
<slangasek> (but hasn't gotten done yet)
<cjwatson> slangasek: that doesn't address the "faster downloads from local mirror" problem, though, so wouldn't deal with this bug
<slangasek> ah
<cjwatson> TBH none of update-manager's configuration is particularly documented; it probably needs somebody to go through the whole thing and write a man page or something ...
<cjwatson> (also, many of its configuration options are misspelled)
<slangasek> is the local mirror thing worth documenting in the release noteS?
<slangasek> under "how to upgrade"
<bdmurray> isn't it too late in the release cycle for updating the man page?
<cjwatson> not if somebody has time to do the work
<cjwatson> it may be too late to find anyone with time ;-)
<cjwatson> slangasek: yes
<cjwatson> (imo)
<slangasek> bdmurray: can you open a task on ubuntu-release-notes for it?
<cjwatson> I have a different approach locally - I have /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades.d/local-mirrors.cfg with:
<cjwatson> [Sources]
<cjwatson> ValidMirrors=/etc/update-manager/local-mirrors
<cjwatson> and /etc/update-manager/local-mirrors with:
<cjwatson> http://mirror/ubuntu
<cjwatson> http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
<cjwatson> # etc.
<bdmurray> slangasek: sure
<cjwatson> that's a bit more fiddly to set up though, and I haven't actually tested it in anger for a while
<bdmurray> bug 964812 is also regarding update-manager and the modifications it makes to sources.list
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 964812 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "release upgrade failed because of missing essential package ubuntu-minimal" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/964812
<slangasek> doesn't that reduce to the same issue though?
<slangasek> The best I think we can do there is improve the error message
 * slangasek follows up to the bug with that
<bdmurray> If you look at Screenlog.txt you'll see that it uses archive.ubuntu.com and de2.archive.ubuntu.com with odd comibnations
<bdmurray> precise-updates/main
<bdmurray> precise/multiverse
<bdmurray> precise-backports/main
<bdmurray> but no precise/main
<slangasek> hmm
<bdmurray> maybe we need their original sources.list?
<slangasek> I think so
<slangasek> followed up
<bdmurray> okay, then in bug 965819 the reporter indicates that reiserfsprogs wasn't installed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 965819 in mountall (Ubuntu) "mount fail during boot-up" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/965819
<cjwatson> hooray, fairly sure I've got bug 792652
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 792652 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "ubiquity crashed with ValueError in command(): I/O operation on closed file" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/792652
<stgraber> yay!
<slangasek> \o/
<slangasek> cjwatson: does reiserfsprogs get pulled in at install time if you format reiserfs?
<cjwatson> yes, it should do; that bug is odd
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> I don't think that's a high priority bug then
<cjwatson> it would be if it were failing :)
<cjwatson> reassigned to ubiquity and incompleted
<bdmurray> slangasek: sources.list was in the clone file
<slangasek> oh, oops
<cjwatson> maybe fails when reusing an existing /home filesystem, although from the code I don't see why it would
<bdmurray> it seems like update-manager should at least make sure main is enabled
<slangasek> bdmurray: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/prerequists-sources.list seems to have the answer to the strange output
<slangasek> yes, u-m *is* making sure main is enabled, by erroring out if it isn't... :)
<slangasek> I don't think it would be productive for u-m to go editing the sources.list to add main to a mirror of its choice
<cjwatson> prerequists> speaking of misspellings ...
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay but a more descriptive error message would help here
<slangasek> yes, agreed
<bdmurray> those three are the only bugs I had for us
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> the rls-p-tracking list has gotten longer again I see
<slangasek> cjwatson: 972250, is the fix for that uploaded?  the report shows it as in-progress
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
<slangasek> bug #972250
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 972250 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "regression from 4k_sectors.patch: "non-sector-aligned data is found in the core file"" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/972250
<cjwatson> slangasek: yes, uploaded
<cjwatson> the list is a day out of date as usual
<slangasek> doh
<slangasek> anything on that list that looks at-risk to have for 12.04?
<slangasek> i.e., please review your assigned bugs there and shout if you don't think the fix is getting in
<cjwatson> I *think* all my >=High ones are still OK
<stgraber> I only had a quick look at bug 772470 but not being able to reproduce (ENOWINDOWS) makes it difficult to work on
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 772470 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "os-prober doesn't detect Windows partition but the recovery partition instead" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/772470
 * jodh crosses everything for bug 553745.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553745 in plymouth (Ubuntu Maverick) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553745
<stgraber> so I'm happy to swap bugs with someone ;)
<slangasek> stgraber: do you need windows licenses for testing?  we have those
<cjwatson> the direction of http://people.canonical.com/~rspencer/rls_bugs.svg is certainly unpleasant
<cjwatson> (though that's all teams)
<slangasek> *someone* is gonna have to run windows to reproduce this issue, so I'm not sure swapping helps us any :)
<cjwatson> I just nuked my windows install to do EFI testing; although I did keep a backup
<stgraber> slangasek: yeah, I guess having a standard version of windows would help (I only have windows 8 and windows 2008 DC edition), I'm not totally sure how to reproduce the Windows part of that setup though, doesn't look like what you get with a default install
<cjwatson> regarding the page title in screen reader bug, which is now assigned to me, I've asked #ubuntu-accessibility for advice on what the desired behaviour should be and am awaiting a response
<slangasek> stgraber: oh right, you need a recovery partition to reproduce it, don't you :/
<bdmurray> I have a dual boot system with a recovery partition (I think)
<slangasek> bdmurray: want to hack on os-prober?
<cjwatson> it's actually ubiquity that needs hacking, as I explained in that bug
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> bdmurray: want to hack on ubiquity? :)
<cjwatson> comment 5
<slangasek> bdmurray: doesn't sound like it ;)  Alternatively can you get stgraber access to your machine for testing, or send him a disk image?
<bdmurray> slangasek: sure, I'm happy to help
<slangasek> stgraber, bdmurray: you two can sort it out from there then?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr  4 15:57:13 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-04-15.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-04-15.03.html
<slangasek> thanks all :)
<jodh> thanks!
<wagafo> y
<bioterror> I can feel the electricity!
<MrChrisDruif> Hmm, are you on a chair? O_O
<jmarsden|work> bioterror: That means you wired the powers supply incorrectly and put 220V to the keyboard :)
<bioterror> jmarsden|work, 230! ;D
<MrChrisDruif> ^_^
<bioterror> so the ice has been broken, people seems to be ready for the meeting
<gilir> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr  4 20:01:22 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<gilir> hi
<MrChrisDruif> \o
<Unit193> Coffee break.
<jmarsden|work> o/
<MrChrisDruif> Aloha gilir
<Yorvyk> o/
<MrChrisDruif> phillw!
<amjjawad> Hi Everyone!
<phillw> 0/
<kanliot> o/
<bioterror> o/
<gilir> #topic gilir - Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  gilir - Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, thanks for the calendar update :)
<MrChrisDruif> Yup, you're welcome
<MrChrisDruif> As we all know already I've finished my action
<gilir> no other action item from previous meeting, let's start thsi one
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, good, that's not always the case for me :p
<gilir> #topic phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
<phillw> nice and sweet from me, kernel freeze goes in tomorrow. but it will be delayed by 24 hours owing to some issues on upgrades.
<phillw> kanliot: will be the lubuntu rep at the weekly QA meetings while I'm away.
<MrChrisDruif> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
<phillw> the Beta 2's are rock solid, so we do not expect any breakages betwen now and release. but do keep your eyes peeled & please test
<phillw> end of report.
<gilir> thanks phillw
<gilir> we are very close to final freeze, changes should be minimum at this point
<gilir> #topic kanliot - Weekly report - Update from comms team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  kanliot - Weekly report - Update from comms team
<kanliot> mario has had the osuosl team put up a temporary website so we can update lubuntu.net
<kanliot> a volunteer has completely translated the lubuntu.net website into french!!
<kanliot> more progress with facebook.  Tons more users
<kanliot> end of report
<MrChrisDruif> Q?
<gilir> nice to have french translation :)
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, yes ?
<MrChrisDruif> Is Facebook only viewed as an Communication channel or also as help channel?
<kanliot> imho both
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: amjjawad is best to answer that.
<MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; your view on this?
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: both but I tend to use it MORE for comms than help
<MrChrisDruif> That is what I've been noticing, but that answers my question
<MrChrisDruif> ^_^
<amjjawad> Facebook doesn't have the 'experinced needed users' for support and help while other channels have
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: as you do, I try to answer an question with a link to our wiki area.
<amjjawad> that is why it is BETTER to use it as a Comms Tool for Updates, News and some Tips :)
<amjjawad> end of my humble personal opinion :D
<kanliot> facebook is fantastic right now.  so much happy people and energy
<amjjawad> add to that great feedback so far on the page. I'm reading amazing stories over there
<MrChrisDruif> Anyhow, my question is answered. Shall we move on?
<wxl> ok here now. prolly missed everything. :)
<MrChrisDruif> wxl; Yes, you did ;-)
<gilir> another question ?
<MrChrisDruif> Not now gilir
<gilir> ok, thanks kanliot
<gilir> #topic gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
<gilir> most of the fixes I had in mind are now in precise
<amjjawad> gilir: you skipped me but that is fine
<amjjawad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
<gilir> still a couple of fixes to upload tonight
<gilir> amjjawad, arf sorry, didn't refresh the page :/
<amjjawad> it is ok gilir carry one
<amjjawad> on*
<gilir> I'll go back to you after this one
<amjjawad> gilir: take your time ;)
<jmarsden|work> gilir: Do you see any chance something will happen about the install disk size check issue, and installing to 4GB SSDs?
<gilir> after this week-end, we should almost ready for testing almost final images :)
<Unit193> jmarsden|work: Does it not work with alt?
<gilir> jmarsden|work, I don't think so :( we still need to advertise people to install with alternate
<jmarsden|work> Unit193: Using alternate works, using live cd does not work.
<amjjawad> jmarsden|work: r we talking about any drive with 4GB??
<amjjawad> coz I did this today and it worked: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11817117&postcount=4
<jmarsden|work> amjjawad: Yes, but few working PCs ahve 4GB mechanical hard drives these days :)
<amjjawad> I installed on 3.7GB from LiveUSB and it worked.
<gilir> amjjawad, and it doesn't block ths installation on the size requirement page ?
<amjjawad> gilir: never
<jmarsden|work> amjjawad: OK... then maybe something changed... that did not work previously.
<amjjawad> it worked perfectly
<wxl> do i hear we need others to test on <=4gb drives? i've got one
<Yorvyk> How big swap did you have?
<jmarsden|work> wxl: Sure, go for it.
<amjjawad> I can do as much tests as u guys want
<amjjawad> Yorvyk: me? it's is showen on here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11817117&postcount=4
<amjjawad> Yorvyk: 303MB
<MrChrisDruif> Yorvyk; swap is advised but a dependency
<amjjawad> I did sudo apt-get upgrade after that and installed lubuntu res extra and I sitll have 1.5GB Free Space!!!
<phillw> gilir: I have been nagging the release team.... who knows, maybe it worked :)
<gilir> I'll also test it on a vm, to double check this
<amjjawad> gilir: do u need me to do more tests??
<gilir> and for the record, swap is not mandatory if you don't want to use hibernate
<amjjawad> +1 gilir
<gilir> amjjawad, just the usual tests with the candidate images, but I'll do a mail about this later
<Yorvyk> If th eother drive has swap space then it installs into >4GB OK
<gilir> any other questions for dev report ?
<gilir> #topic amjjawad - Weekly report - Update from Support Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  amjjawad - Weekly report - Update from Support Team
<amjjawad> I'm looking forward to create a simple beginner guide about Lubuntu. For new comers mailny - that is a next project
<MrChrisDruif> That's support and not wiki/docs because...?
<amjjawad> as for other support stuff, nothing special except one case I'm working on and if I need help, I know someone on the forum and he is the right one for that job coz it has to do with GRUB2 and an old machine
<phillw> amjjawad: liase with MrChrisDruif, he's up next fior docs.
<amjjawad> guys: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
<amjjawad> phillw: and MrChrisDruif check this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
<MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; your point with that link is?
<gilir> don't update the agenda so lately ;)
<phillw> amjjawad: I do have it open :)
<amjjawad> OMG
<amjjawad> just keep me at the end and stop nagging :(
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: please
<amjjawad> go a head
<phillw> gilir: +1, should be closed 24 hours before meeting
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, my fault, we will go to doc/wiki just after this one
<amjjawad> gilir: no, pass it on please!
 * gilir skiped amjjawad point 
<gilir> ...
<phillw> gilir: #action me to make that clear on the Agenda page
<gilir> #topic MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
<amjjawad> gilir: just ignore everything related to my edit - now excuse me, I must leave
<amjjawad> you guys can carry on and if there is something urgent, I shall send an email. IRC is not my cup of tea and will never be, sorry gilir
<phillw> o/
<MrChrisDruif> o7
<MrChrisDruif> Anyhow, but to subject
<gilir> phillw, let's finish MrChrisDruif, I'll go back to you after
<MrChrisDruif> We had a new team member for maybe an hour for about an hour or so
<MrChrisDruif> It was "littlegirl" (IRC name) but right after I had spoken to her I had to go offline to get to bed
<MrChrisDruif> After I left the conversation continued and it had a funny twist somewhere and she decided to leave again.
<MrChrisDruif> I've send her an email tonight and hope she'll reply to that.
<MrChrisDruif> She came with the idea for my next item anyway.
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, ok, we will discuss it after this point, anything to add ?
<MrChrisDruif> I've noticed that people started to translate the Lubuntu wiki to Spanish, but I've got to get some contact with those people so we are all on one line
<wxl> MrChrisDruif: as i'm sure you've noticed they all seem to be on the facebook group
<MrChrisDruif> wxl; yup, but I'd like them to be in the launchpad group as well, so we can talk more easily and also show the "world" that I'm not doing this gig alone
<MrChrisDruif> I can't think of anything to add to this topic.
<MrChrisDruif> Q's?
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: you will get used to phrase "like trying to herd cats"
<gilir> thanks MrChrisDruif
<phillw> o/
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; ?
<gilir> go phillw
<phillw> I'd like to let the 'team' know that I had a a chat about MrChrisDruif becoming an wiki admin person.
<MrChrisDruif> Ah right, didn't think about that
<phillw> it went well, and I am confident that Lubuntu will have 2 wiki admins out of a total of 13 :)
<phillw> end of report.
<gilir> that would be cool :)
<phillw> gilir: just part of the master plan for lubuntu to take over the world :D
<kanliot> don't talk about that here
<gilir> phillw, it's a secret ;)
<gilir> #topic MrChrisDruif - Offline documentation, wanted?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  MrChrisDruif - Offline documentation, wanted?
<MrChrisDruif> Yes, littlegirl suggested this one actually
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, let's introduce your topic, I'll add my point after :)
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, is it a copy of the wiki documentation available offline, or another documentation source ?
<MrChrisDruif> Offline documentation is something for people who want to install Lubuntu on computers without internet connection
<MrChrisDruif> Use-case: If I'd install Lubuntu on one of my grandparents computer e.g.
<MrChrisDruif> They would just "use" it without trying to install new software
<bioterror> would that offline documentation be localized? how about images?
<MrChrisDruif> But if they have questions that aren't answered by the man-pages (if I could even explain to them how to get there) then this would come in handy
<MrChrisDruif> To add to that are man-pages pretty technical most of the time
<MrChrisDruif> bioterror; I don't know what you mean with images, but that offline documentation should be localized ideally
<MrChrisDruif> The current kubuntu-docs was about 45MB if I remember correctly what littlegirl mentioned
<wxl> MrChrisDruif: i think if i understand bioterror he means that traditionally localized documentation would be in the form of man pages which are pretty much incompatible with images and a lot of formatting that is to be expected with wiki pages
<phillw> gilir: could 45MB be squeezed on?
<gilir> phillw, space is not a problem on our CD
<wxl> the only way i could see getting around that would be using html
<wxl> somehow it would have to be integrated in such a way that it would be clear how to get help
<MrChrisDruif> Not for this release of course, but this item on the gauge interest in this
<gilir> my main concern is to maintain another source of documentation, disconnected from the wiki
<Myrtti> bioterror: in practice that is for the local respins/remixes to do and include on the installation media, it could be packaged as a lubuntu-documentation-<ISO language code> whatever in the repos for downloading and the documentation included with the CD in the other flavours has AFAIK been HTML
<wxl> a .desktop under System Tools perhaps
<phillw> wxl: Mac comes with 'view internal help'. Love them or hate them, having that facility there is a plus.
<MrChrisDruif> After that I'll have to look into how to make it happen
<Myrtti> although my memories on the subject go back to 2006
<wxl> and then how to syn?
<wxl> sync i mean
<wxl> i guess the only way for that to happen is it would have to be a package
<kanliot> well IMHO, right now we have 0 offline documentation.  We could start with a little documentation.  like a few pages.  Can we make that happen?
<bioterror> Myrtti, if I remember right finns has own spin? I think I'll check it one day ;)
<Myrtti> yup
<wxl> and on the back end someone would have to maintain the package, i.e. turn the raw wiki pages into a package for distribution
<MrChrisDruif> kanliot; I think so, maybe not for this release but just accumulate over time
<wxl> i love this idea, don't get me wrong, but it's not just a simple easy thing to do i don't think
<Myrtti> sounds like a job for LaTeX/other similar markup language
<MrChrisDruif> wxl; I'm not say it'll be easy, but this item is just to gauge interest
<Myrtti> I've forgotten their names
<MrChrisDruif> After that I'd have to look into how to make it happen
<kanliot> can we agree to make the docs, not specific to any distribution, so we don't have to update it for each version?
<phillw> wxl: in the past few months, we have been quietly getting all support to wiki. Exporting wiki to CD is not a major problem :)
<wxl> MrChrisDruif: well sometimes interest is not sufficient :D the docs team is not composed of package maintainers (tho i'd be happy to take on the task!)
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, the interest is real for everyone, just need a good way to do / maintain it
<wxl> i hear many users in #lubuntu asking for help with this or that due to the lack of an internet connection
<wxl> think of what a pain it must be for them to get online to ask!
<wxl> and then imagine all the other folks that don't have that other optionâ¦
<phillw> wxl: We can export our wiki area.
<MrChrisDruif> Al right, I'll get in touch with kubuntu with how they do things. Hopefully they can teach us how to do it
<phillw> I do not mean it is an easy task, but it is do-able.
<kanliot> i don't like this project.  it's too vague
<wxl> kanliot: ?
<phillw> kanliot: talk to me later :)
<gilir> #action MrChrisDruif to discover how to do offline documentation easily
<meetingology> ACTION: MrChrisDruif to discover how to do offline documentation easily
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks gilir, I just *love* ACTIONS ^_^
<gilir> ;)
<gilir> let's see how technicaly it's do-able, we will discuss it after :)
<MrChrisDruif> Agreed
<gilir> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Any Other Business
<phillw> gilir: can you #action me to update the Agenda page to state 24 hours notice is required... else I will forget!]
<gilir> #action phillw to update the agenda page about updates
<meetingology> ACTION: phillw to update the agenda page about updates
<gilir> thanks for the reminder :)
<MrChrisDruif> I think Ali needs to learn that teams can make their own guidelines
<phillw> thnx :)
<MrChrisDruif> Just as a note on one of his suggestions
<MrChrisDruif> No Other Business from me
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: he is still a rough diamond, as is kanliot. Both have caused me to have 'discussions'.
<gilir> ok, let's end this meeting then
<kanliot> ya
<Myrtti> IRC team?
<gilir> Myrtti, Unit193 told me there was nothing to report
<Myrtti> right
<phillw> Myrtti: Unit193 had nothing to report, unless you do?
<gilir> you want to add something ?
<Unit193> Silverlion resigned.
<Unit193> thanks, Myrtti.
<Myrtti> np
<gilir> ok, thanks for the info
<gilir> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr  4 20:55:56 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-04-20.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-04-20.01.html
<Riddell> MrChrisDruif: hmm?
<MrChrisDruif> Riddell; ?
<Riddell> my kubuntu highlight pinged
<MrChrisDruif> Ah, awesome
<MrChrisDruif> You are on #kubuntu or somewhere else we can talk "offtopic" concerning kubuntu offline documentation?
<MrChrisDruif> Riddell; ^
<Riddell> MrChrisDruif: #kubuntu-devel
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-05
 * phillipsjk delegates reading the TOS to his cat.
<czajkowski> aloha
<Mokurai> Are we here yet?
<Effenberg0x0> Hi, wasn't the CC meeting today/1600UTC?
<dholbach> 17 UTC
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<Effenberg0x0> AH, sorry... I'm  another one affected by the Google Agenda DTS bug :\
<dholbach> yeah, you're not alone
<beuno> o/
<czajkowski> pleia2: ping
<pleia2> o/
<czajkowski> shall we start?
<pleia2> yep
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  5 17:03:23 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<czajkowski> aloha and welcome to the CC meeting
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<czajkowski> todays agenda
<czajkowski> dpic: ping
<dholbach> o/
<dpic> hi
<czajkowski> #topic Bug 1
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bug 1
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bug1
<czajkowski> dpic: care to talk to us regarding your agenda item?
<dpic> So, bug #1 is a bit vague because it is specific to microsoft. that means apple could solve it for us
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<dpic> i don't think that was the intention
<dpic> so i drafted this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bug1
<mog> dpic, or that ubuntu could solve the problem via equally non-free software
<dpic> it cites the ubuntu philosophy and commitment to making floss available
<beuno> that's interesting
<dpic> i don't think ubuntu would be completely proprietary ever, but it does make sense to shift the conversation to proprietary software and away from windows
<dpic> because if Apple suddenly took over the world, we would have less free software but bug #1 would technically be solved
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<dpic> ok, i'll refer to it as "the bug" or "#1" from now on to avoid the bot haha
<mog> dpic, given how ubuntu already integrates non free software into the core distro i don't think its outlandish to say it would become more proprietary
<sabdfl> hello hello
<dpic> sabdfl: hello there
<dholbach> it's a shame LP is timing out right now, because I'd love to read the bug description and everything again
<dpic> sabdfl: do you have logs or shall i pastebin?
<sabdfl> thanks dpic, yes please
<pleia2> I pastebined them
<dpic> dholbach: i can pastebin it if you like
<pleia2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/916280/
<dpic> pleia2: great, thanks
<dholbach> dpic, ah no, now it opened
<dpic> this is the buf now dholbach http://paste.ubuntu.com/916281/
<dpic> ah, okay [=
<sabdfl> i think it would be a mistake to turn bug 1 from tease to dogma
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<sabdfl> and i think it would be moving the goal posts to edit it now
<dpic> sabdfl: interesting point.
<mog> sabdfl, so ubuntu doesnt stand for expanding free software but was just teasing?
<sabdfl> if we get too focused on it, we end up in impossible conversations
<dpic> mog: i think that wasn't the point
<sabdfl> like what the meaning of proprietary is
<dpic> sabdfl: true
<sabdfl> and mog's point
<pleia2> I've always seen bug #1 to be a bit tongue in cheek
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<sabdfl> exactly, it was a tease, and frankly one i regret for being a smallminded way to start
<sabdfl> we don't win by being smallminded
<dpic> yes
<sabdfl> nor do we win by being pedantic
<sabdfl> and arguing about the wording of a smallminded tease sounds like the third or fourth century of a successful religion, not what we need to be now ;)
<dpic> i think the goalposts deserve shifting, but is there a way this bug could be used for that without running into those concerns?
<sabdfl> let sleeping dogs lie, is my view
<beuno> if we close that bug, I think we can celebrate. If someone else is now dominating, well, we can always file a new bug  ;)
<sabdfl> if the cc feels it needs changing, fine, but i'd be happy to say 'let's focus on more meaningful discussions'
<dpic> beuno: there will only be one (bug) #1!
<sabdfl> indeed. bug 1000000 is coming up though ;)
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1000000 could not be found
<sabdfl> thank you, ubottu
<dpic> haha
<dholbach> sabdfl, then we'd better be quick :)
<sabdfl> can we thank those who raised it, and move on?
<beuno> yeah, I'm happy to leave it and look forward to closing it
<czajkowski> sounds like a great idea
<dholbach> yes, same here
<czajkowski> moving on
<beuno> am happy we're even considering it needs broadening, makes it look smaller!
<pleia2> agreed
<czajkowski> #topic Asia/Oceania Regional Membership Board Catch up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Asia/Oceania Regional Membership Board Catch up
<czajkowski> anyone here from the A/O Board?
<pleia2> I haven't gotten replies from any A/O folks about attending today, but it's the middle of the night for them
<pleia2> (3AM in Sydney, and it goes from there)
<beuno> good, so lifeless should be awake  :p
<pleia2> hah :)
<czajkowski> beuno: *grin* true!
<dholbach> damn, I should've considered that when I set up the schedule :/
<czajkowski> do we have any other items to discuss ?
<czajkowski> dholbach: unless you can move timezones it's not your fault :)
<dholbach> I have a quick one - when will we move over the Teams page? :)
<czajkowski> #topic move over teams page
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: move over teams page
<sabdfl> sooner rather than later
<sabdfl> it's already better than what went before, isn't it?
<czajkowski> nods it is
<czajkowski> and we've merged two columns into one to create more room
<pleia2> great
<pleia2> I think we go live with it now, it'll always need tending and updates, it's fine for now
<czajkowski> if people want to add their team information to it when it's up they can
<czajkowski> pleia2: exactly
<dholbach> who wants to do the honours?
<czajkowski> I can copy over the /temp version to live version this evening
<pleia2> thanks czajkowski :)
<dholbach> great
<czajkowski> #action czajkowski to update the /teams page with working draft
<meetingology> ACTION: czajkowski to update the /teams page with working draft
<czajkowski> anything else ? anyone ?
<sabdfl> merged code of conduct 2.0
<czajkowski> #topic merged code of conduct 2.0
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: merged code of conduct 2.0
<sabdfl> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/changes
<sabdfl> by way of background
<sabdfl> we were looking at how to build awareness of the leadership coc
<sabdfl> and how to make it possible for people to sign / support that
<sabdfl> as part of our general review of governance and leadership in ubuntu
<sabdfl> and thought it might be better to merge the leadership value statement into the normal coc
<sabdfl> on the grounds that all of us have opportunities for leadership
<sabdfl> and we should be clear throughout the community what we think makes for good leadership
<sabdfl> so, (amber?) set about merging them, i crunched it down a few tens of lines, and others have made suggestions
<sabdfl> along the way, it made sense to integrate the diversity statement
<sabdfl> and the link is where we stand with a current draft Code of Conduct 2.0
<sabdfl> there is some email from the CC on it which i confess to having failed to parse and integrate
<dholbach> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/view/head:/MergedCodeOfConduct.txt is the actual changed document
<sabdfl> should we take comments and feedback here?
<dholbach> sure
<czajkowski> I think it's good we've addressed peoples issues that they couldnt sign a LCoC but with it being addressed now in the CoC this  helps
<dholbach> when I googled an expression used in the CoC I was pleasantly surprised to see many other communities who adopted it :)
<bkerensa> There is talk of Mozilla adopting portions of the Ubuntu CoC
<sabdfl> they might want to get a heads-up on this 2.0, and we could take suggestions from them
<sabdfl> i tried to generalise it but.... it was difficult
<dholbach> I'm very happy with the new CoC - the only bit I think we could improve is the BDFL bit - it might need some clarification, particularly for new contributors
<sabdfl> dholbach, i've tried to demystify the BDFL reference
<dholbach> sabdfl, they're aware - czajkowski and I are in conversations
<sabdfl> ok
<czajkowski> any further comments on the CoC V 2.0 ?
<czajkowski> should we blog this
<czajkowski> post to mailing lists?
<czajkowski> to let people know of this change and when should we do it ?
<sabdfl> i'm going to work through the CC comments now and make tweaks
<sabdfl> dholbach said the latter portion felt a bit too heavy on the delegation mechanics
<czajkowski> I think that was in reference to the Leadership part no? 'Their teams' ?
<dholbach> ah yes - sabdfl, you're right - I missed that when reviewing the thread again
<dholbach> while it is important to explain leaders what good leadership is and how delegation works, a casual Ubuntu contributor might feel a bit less free to jump in and pioneer in a given area
<dholbach> ... after reading a few paragraphs about delegated powers and delegated responsibilities
<dholbach> I'm not sure if this is also a concern of yours
 * beuno re-reads
<sabdfl> there are a couple of things i really wanted to convey
<sabdfl> this is as much about being a leader as it is about being lead
<sabdfl> i think it's important we avoid some of the post-decision carping that is toxic in other communities
<sabdfl> you know the story:
<sabdfl>  * there is a hard decision to be taken ("Upstart vs Systemd")
<sabdfl>  * someone steps up to do the analysis and the work
<sabdfl>  * they take a decision and do a ton of work tomake it real
<sabdfl>  * then others who weren't around jump in and say it's all wrong
<sabdfl>  * so it all goes on hold for three years
<sabdfl>  * people resign in frustration
<sabdfl>  * then someone just does it that way anyway
<sabdfl> let's not go there
<dholbach> totally agreed
<sabdfl> so i was being forceful about the importance of getting the delegation right (top down delegation, bottom up confirmation)
<czajkowski> +1
<sabdfl> and the importance of letting the folk do the work they have taken on
<sabdfl> recognising the occasional need to escalate
<sabdfl> all of that becomes a little longwinded
<sabdfl> i'll give it another spin
<sabdfl> i think that covers all the feedback
<sabdfl> will push a few more commits up, then am happy for blogging and feedback
<sabdfl> could we identify someone to act as a central taker of feedback?
<sabdfl> so we can consider, say, one wiki page of feedback rather than a long thread?
<czajkowski> nods makes sense to keep the feedback in one place
<dholbach> maybe we can blog about it on the fridge and collect replies there?
<czajkowski> rather than here on a ml then another chunk elsewhere
<sabdfl> +1
<dholbach> ...as we don't really have a general purpose mailing list
<czajkowski> sabdfl: I could collect any feedback mailed to my @ubuntu.com address
<czajkowski> and put it on a wiki page for us to review
<beuno> +1
<sabdfl> perfect
<czajkowski> grand job
<dholbach> yes, I'm quite happy with it as well :)
<czajkowski> ok are we done folks ?
 * dholbach is
 * beuno too
<czajkowski> right
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  5 17:50:39 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-05-17.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-05-17.03.html
<czajkowski> thanks for coming folks
<czajkowski> got a lot done today
<beuno> o/
<dholbach> thanks everyone :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-06
 * skaet waves
<roadmr> hey!
 * ogasawara waves
<mdeslaur> o/
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Apr  6 15:00:27 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<arosales> Hello
<jibel> hello ~o~
<skaet> [TOPIC] Release general overview - skaet
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> Please remember to .. when you're done, and o/ if you want us to pause. :)
<skaet> Agenda can be found:
<skaet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-04-06
<skaet> Individual team status links will be added to it from:
<skaet> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/thread.html
<skaet> .
<skaet> We're now in Beta 2 Freeze, and the archive is frozen, so all changes will need to be reviewed by the release team.   Changes to the unseeded universe can continue to go in, but changes to seeded packages will need review.
<skaet> #ubuntu-release if questions, please.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Archive went back to being frozen yesterday.  -proposed should be used for uploads might cause archive skew, see:
<skaet> .
<skaet>  Schedule is at:
<skaet>  #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<skaet>  #link http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ubuntu-release-calendar/
<skaet>  .
<skaet> Upcoming Dates:
<skaet> â¢ 2012/04/12 - Final Freeze at 2100 UTC
<skaet> â¢ 2012/04/19 - Release Candidate Images start
<skaet> â¢ 2012/04/24 - Unseeded Universe Final Freeze at 1200 UTC
<skaet> â¢ 2012/04/26 - Release
<skaet> .
<skaet>  Bugs committed to be fixed by the engineering teams can be found:
<skaet>  #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
<skaet> Bugs that you would like the engineering teams to consider for fixing, should be assigned to specific teams, so they can be found.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Individual Team Statuses Received by 1500 UTC:
<skaet> Hardware Certification - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001081.html - brendand
<skaet> Quality Assurance -  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001091.html - jibel
<skaet> Security team  - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001095.html - mdeslaur
<skaet> Kernel team - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001086.html - ogasawara
<skaet> Foundations - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001084.html-  slangasek
<skaet> Server - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001090.html -arosales
<skaet> Linaro - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001094.html  - fabo
<skaet> Ubuntu One - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001088.html-  joshuahoover
<skaet> Desktop Team - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001092.html - seb128
<skaet> Unity Framework Team - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001093.html - dbarth
<skaet> Unity Services and Settings -https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001096.html  - Cimi
<skaet> Kubuntu - no update-  Riddell
<skaet> Edubuntu -no update - stgraber or highvoltage
<skaet> Xubuntu - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001098.html - astraljava
<skaet> Ubuntu Studio - no update - scott-work
<skaet> Lubuntu - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001097.html - gilir
<skaet> Mythbuntu - no update - superm1
<skaet> .
<skaet> [TOPIC] Comments, Question and Answer Session
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Comments, Question and Answer Session
<ogasawara> o/
<skaet> ogasawara, go.
<ogasawara> 2 things...
<ogasawara> 1) I've responded to hw cert's meeting email with a status for their
<ogasawara> blocking bugs.  Of the kernel bugs on the list, 88219 should be closed,
<ogasawara> 918769 & 976023 are pending feedback from cert, 926136 still under investigation.
<ogasawara> 2) As noted in my email, I'd like to coordinate with the release team the
<ogasawara> best date to upload the kernel.  There does exist skew between the
<ogasawara> kernel and gcc.  Even though there should be no impact with the gcc
<ogasawara> changes, I'd rather err on the safe side and get us in sync.
<ogasawara> Additionally, there are some last minute bug fixes (one of which I would deem
<ogasawara> release critical) that I would like to see make the release.  I've
<ogasawara> suggested a date of Tues April 10.  Thoughts?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> thanks ogasawara,  I'm not seeing brendand,  but will follow up.
<roadmr> o/
<skaet> upload of kernel on April 10 is a reasonable target.   Will bug:919281 and bug:751689 (criticals) be included with it?
<ogasawara> bug 919281 will
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 919281 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "devmapper kernel modules missing from precise server cd" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/919281
<ogasawara> bug 751689 is still unresolved
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 751689 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "ThinkPads overheat due to slow fans when on 'auto'" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751689
<skaet> ogasawara,  thanks.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> roadmr, go.
<roadmr> I'm here on behalf of brendand. We got ogasawara's email and will follow up on it (cert engineers have been advised to provide the requested feedback and we'll look at and close the bugs that need it).
<roadmr> Also if there are more certification-related questions, I'm happy to answer them today. Thanks!
<roadmr> ..
<skaet> thanks roadmr.  :)
<skaet> slangasek, seb128 - looks like we're at an impass with bug:966294.... fabo - does anyone on your team have gstreamer experience that can help with this before next tuesday?
<fabo> skaet: I can ask to rob if he can help
<skaet> thanks fabo.   please ask him to coordinate with slangasek.  :)
<skaet> fabo,  for the powerVR SGX ARMHF driver review/approval - who is it blocking on?
<fabo> skaet: I'm sending a mail to multimedia WG and cc Steve
<skaet> fabo,   sounds good.
<slangasek> fwiw I don't think we're going to make headway on that gstreamer bug before Tuesday regardless
<fabo> skaet: last week, it was pending on infinity but my data could be outdated now.
<slangasek> it does require access to reproducer hardware, not sure if I can find one of those again today
<slangasek> fabo: pvr-omap4 was accepted into precise last night (per my followup mail)
<slangasek> if there's anything else you're missing, please shout
 * skaet nods
<fabo> slangasek: thanks!
<skaet> .. (I'm thinking we're done on this topic.
<skaet> o/
<skaet> following up on what jibel says in his status,  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/defects/opened,  still has bugs with importance "Undecided" set from beta1 and beta2.   dbarth, slangasek, ogasawara, seb128 - can you please take a pass and make sure there are no high/critical bugs in that set?
<jbicha> o/
<ogasawara> skaet: ack
<slangasek> skaet: ack
<skaet> thanks ogasawara, slangasek.   I'll see if we can find some desktop and dx later.
<skaet> jbicha go.
<jbicha> I was just saying hi, I don't know if I'm needed for this week's meeting :)
<skaet> anyone have any UIFes pending? .....  (and thanks for showing up jbicha)
<gilir> skaet, I have one for the slideshow
<skaet> jbicha,  am assumming there's no lubuntu in any of the shots you're caring about?
<skaet> gilir,  mail out to the ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-translator list (if there are strings that might need translating) and let them know about it please.   Is there a bug number yet?
<gilir> if it's too late, it can be dropped, it's not an essential one
<gilir> bug 958880
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 958880 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Update of Lubuntu Slideshow for 12.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/958880
<gilir> the 2 teams are already aware of the change (link on the bug report)
<skaet> gilir, should probably be ok then.   Will review after meeting.
<gilir> thanks :)
<skaet> all,  Any FFe's still anticipated, or are we through with them now?
<Cimi> fine on my side
<skaet> :)
<Cimi> of course congrats to whoever is on holiday but is still working for the passion for ubuntu :)
<skaet> Glad to hear it,  sounds like we're likely going to be done for seeded universe FFes then for Precise :)
 * skaet crosses fingers
<skaet> arosales, Daviey - are all the MIR requested packages seeded?
 * skaet is a bit concerned about them being considered under the Unseeded Universe reviews...
<arosales> skaet: All the high priority ones are on the correct track, I believe
<skaet> thanks arosales.  :)
<skaet> ..
<arosales> skaet: there are a fewer lower priorities ones that may not make, but are still on the list, such as ceph
<arosales> ..
 * skaet looks around for other questions...
<skaet> raise hand if you have any,  I'll continue until I see one.
<skaet> release team members,  any concerns about the plan for the rest of the month in yesterday's email?
<skaet> slangasek, ScottK, Daviey, ^ and anyone else around?
<slangasek> no concerns from me
<slangasek> provided that everyone is happy to commit to the proposed etherpad usage
<ScottK> It's still more bureaucracy than I'd prefer, but I think it's reasonable.
<skaet> thanks slangasek, ScottK.    ok,  lets see if we can make it work.  :)
<skaet> ..
<skaet> Any package fixes about to land over the holiday weekend that need to make sure go in ASAP?
 * skaet thanks all who are attending this meeting on Good Friday as well.   Much appreciated.
<slangasek> there'll be an eglibc upload soon-ish fwiw
<slangasek> with packaging fixes only
<slangasek> (including whacking the last stale conffile on server upgrades, in jibel's report)
<skaet> :)  goodness.   thanks for the background on that one.
<slangasek> oh, it's not all packaging fixes, I should say
<slangasek> there are some crasher bugs to be fixed as well, that were escalated to us by desktop
<Cimi> skaet, :)
 * skaet nods
<slangasek> skaet: bug #929219, for reference
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 929219 in eglibc (Ubuntu Precise) "chromium-browser crashed with SIGSEGV in __nscd_get_mapping()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/929219
<skaet> thanks slangasek,   will keep an eye open for it on Saturday and Sunday then.
<skaet> ScottK,  anything from the Kubuntu team about to land, or general updates?
<slangasek> skaet: well, maybe check with infinity first if you have him in reach today, since it's subject to his timeline - I'm not committing him to working on it over the weekend, just giving you a heads-up that it may land :)
<skaet> slangasek,  fair enough.  :)
<ScottK> Hello
<ScottK> For Kubuntu we landed Qt 4.8.1 and KDE SC 4.8.2.  Those are our last planned significant version updates.
<skaet> ..?
<skaet> ScottK,  slangasek - did discussion switch to ubuntu-release by accident?   should we go on?
<slangasek> skaet: sorry, I was following up out-of-band with ScottK on a point I didn't think I needed to burden the group with :)
<slangasek> ("my universe voip chat client acts funny with the new qt" is not a release-meeting-worthy issue)
<skaet> ScottK,  you finished?   couldn't tell.
 * skaet assumes he is....
<dbarth> o/
<skaet> go ahead dbarth
<dbarth> hey
<dbarth> just to point out
<dbarth> jibel: bugs #964749, #965677, #964112, #968846, #942836, #939745 are duplicates; the real ones are fixed now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 947278 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #968846 unity-2d-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in ref()" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/947278
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 963633 in Unity Distro Priority "duplicate for #942836 Unity 5.8: Login to blank screen (all black or just wallpaper)" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963633
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 963093 in Unity Distro Priority "duplicate for #965677 Unity 5.8: Flickering and corruption on Unity UI elements" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963093
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 963470 in unity "duplicate for #964749 [regression] Unity 5.8+Compiz 0.9.7.2: Pressing Super+Tab or Super+W works, but unity does not respond to when Super is released." [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963470
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 953089 in unity (Ubuntu Precise) "duplicate for #964112 Unity 5.6: key bindings (such as Super) don't work on empty workspace or on slow/loaded systems" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/953089
<dbarth> which means that the high/critical on the list above should be fine now, with the 5.10.0 release that is being prepared for next week
<skaet> thanks dbarth,  is ETA on monday or tuesday for it?
<dbarth> tuesday i think, need to check with didrocks
<dbarth> the freeze should be in effect by now
<dbarth> unity trunk freeze, that is
<dbarth> ..
<skaet> dbarth,  thanks.
<jibel> dbarth, k, there was a bug in the tracker with duplicates that I just fixed.
<dbarth> ok
<ScottK> skaet: Sorry.  In a conference and got distracted.
<skaet> any one else have remaining questions for this week? ...
<skaet> Thank you for your participation, roadmr, jibel, mdeslaur, slangasek, dbarth, arosales,  fabo, Cimi, ScottK, gilir, jbicha, ogasawara
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Apr  6 15:44:45 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-06-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-06-15.00.html
<Cimi> yw
<mdeslaur> thanks skaet!
<roadmr> thanks!
<arosales> skaet: thanks for chariing :-)
<jibel> thansk skaet !
<skaet> Hope everyone has a very good holiday weekend.
<astraljava> Thanks skaet, all, good holidays if you have them!
<dbarth> skaet: fyi, tuesday at the earliest, says didrocks :/
<skaet> dbarth,  thanks for letting me know.
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-08
<nameit02> hello?
<raju> nameit02,  Hi this is meeting area , for any help you can visit #ubuntu or ubuntuforums.org or askubuntu.com
<nameit02> ok,thanks!
<gotwig> hey there
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-01
<stgraber> soren: ping
<soren> o/
<soren> #startmeeting Technical Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  1 20:01:44 2013 UTC.  The chair is soren. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board Meeting | Current topic:
<soren> Sorry I
<stgraber> hi soren!
<soren> m late. Massive technology fail at my house right now.
<soren> One internet connection, luckily I had backup.
<soren> Bluetooth keyboard dead.
<soren> Luckily, I have a backup.
<soren> There's a pattern there somewhere.
<soren> Anyway.
<stgraber> well, let's hope it won't get any worse during the meeting then ;)
<soren> Welcome.
<soren> cjwatson, mdz, kees: ?
<stgraber> looks like pitti is off IRC today
<soren> Yeah.
<soren> Sorry, don't have all my bookmarks on this backup laptop, so digging around a bit.
<soren> #topic Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board Meeting | Current topic:  Action review
<soren> wait for it..
<soren> I don't see any action items in the minutes?
<soren> Moving on.
<soren> #topic MRE for Xserver
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board Meeting | Current topic:  MRE for Xserver
<soren> Who's representing?
<ScottK> soren: Review of Mark's release reorg proposal didn't get finished last time.
<soren> ScottK: Alright, let's talk about that next.
<soren> Just pinged bryce in #ubuntu-devel.
<soren> I guess we can talk about the missing points from Mark's proposal until Bryce turns up.
<soren> Oh.
<soren> bryce: Hi :)
<bryce> was just wondering about this
<bryce> hi soren
<soren> bryce: So we were just starting on this topic now.
<mdz> soren, here
<soren> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-March/001559.html
<soren> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-March/001559.html
<soren> Has everyone had a chance to read it?
<soren> I've read it, but I must say I feel limimited by my ignorance of how all these things fit together.
<bryce> soren, happy to answer questions
<soren> Does anyone feel sufficiently informed to be able to ask intelligent questions? :)
<stgraber> I just did and I personally think it's entirely reasonable
<stgraber> bryce: do I remember correctly that you also run some kind of tests against the cert lab?
<bryce> we've been doing SRUs of xserver patches for years, and have found the upstream microreleases themselves to be well done now (better than some years ago).  The one reason we hadn't requested MRE in the past was due to lack of test frameworks, but over the last couple years that's been fixed.
<bryce> stgraber, not me personally.  there are tests that could be run, but don't know if the cert lab runs them.
<bryce> stgraber, we do run the tests locally on our own hardware though.
<stgraber> bryce: ah, that may have been that. I remember that for mesa at least you said you'd pretty good coverage of the various vendors to do hardware testing before actually pushing an SRU
<bryce> yep
<soren> I'm not entirely sure I understand the scope of this request.
<bryce> and our proposal is to handle the xserver testing the same way as we're doing with mesa, since that process seems to be working out quite well
<soren> The title says "xserver", but is it really all the various xserver-xorg-video-* drivers, too?
<stgraber> bryce: do you have a list of source packages that'd be covered by that MRE?
<bryce> soren, no just the xorg-server package
<soren> Hm. Ok.
<bryce> stgraber, this is only for one source package - 'xorg-server'
<stgraber> k
<soren> I'm a bit puzzled.
<bryce> since it's just micro releases, those are just bug fixes so never any impacts on any other source packages.
<soren> So these aren't drivers at all.
<bryce> nope, just the server
<soren> Ok.
<soren> Well, in that case: Sure, no problem at all.
<bryce> frankly the X drivers don't really have much "interesting" code left in them.  We rarely SRU X driver fixes any more.
<bryce> the "interesting" driver code is now included in the kernel, so those fixes are already taken care of by the normal kernel processes
<soren> Are those things mostly in the kernel, then?
<soren> Or this "mesa" thing that everyone talks about?
<soren> :)
<bryce> ah, tldr version is, there's really 3 drivers for graphics - one in the kernel (drm kms), one in mesa (the 3D stuff), and one in X (the 2D 'DRI' drivers)
<bryce> these days it's the 3D drivers and kernel drivers where all the interesting bugs are.  The 2D X bits tend to be fairly boring and stable.
<soren> I see.
<soren> Cool, thanks for clarifying.
<soren> Well, that clears up all my concerns, really.
<soren> If it
<soren> 's just xserver itself, I'm cool with it.
<soren> Anyone else?
<stgraber> I'm perfectly fine with the current proposal
<stgraber> mdz, cjwatson, kees: ^
<mdz> sounds more than reasonable
<soren> I'll give them a minute to weigh in.
<soren> Alright, sold.
<soren> Does anyone want to do the honours of updating the wiki?
<soren> Otherwise I'll do it as part of doing the minutes.
<soren> bryce: Thanks for your time!
<bryce> soren, thank you!  :-)
<soren> #topic PArts of Mark's proposal that were missed in the last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board Meeting | Current topic:  PArts of Mark's proposal that were missed in the last meeting
<mdz> soren, I'lldo it
<soren> ScottK: Care to elaborate.
<soren> mdz: Thanks very much!
<ScottK> We covered support period for regular releases.
<ScottK> We covered terminology (regular/LTS)
<mdz> soren, oh, hmm, it ought to have a link to the minutes in there, so it's probably better if you do it after you've posted them
<soren> mdz: Ah, good point.
<soren> mdz: Thanks for trying :)
<stgraber> ScottK: and we covered the "devel" symlink to current dev release too
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Still typing.
 * stgraber waits
<ScottK> We also considered the discussion about kernel updates as ~ what we do now.
<ScottK> I think there was informal consensus that the rapid moving stuff he refers to should either be done through backports if appropriate ofr PPAs.
<ScottK> No new "rules" needed.
<ScottK> I think the significant point of action that remained was on the point about updates to libraries in an LTS if the API is "stable"
<ScottK> err
<ScottK> required upgrades to newer versions of platform components,  ...
<ScottK> That's how it starts.
<ScottK> I think that's the one point remaining that would require a policy change to execute.
<soren> do you happen to have a link handy to the entire thing?
<ScottK> Sure
<ScottK> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-March/001527.html
<soren> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-March/001527.html
<mdz> yes, I believe we covered #2 and #3 and did not start on #1
<mdz> (in the previous meeting)
<stgraber> so on principle I'm not completely opposed to the proposal of updating to newer versions of core components provided they don't change API or the way user interact with those, for example changing a command line tool and causing options to get renammed/removed/changed isn't acceptable to me
<soren> ScottK: Thanks for the introduction to the topic.
<mdz> as ScottK says, it seems like the first point under #1 doesn't require a policy change
<ScottK> We did discuss this in Kubuntu and came to this position: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-March/001553.html
<stgraber> and I personally think that the Unity example in the e-mail is a rather bad one as at least for me Unity isn't associated with stable API and no change visible to the user ;)
<mdz> stgraber, I agree in principle, though I'd be a bit concerned about the practicality of auditing interfaces
<soren> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-March/001553.html
<ScottK> I am particularly concerned about this point since base on our experience with Qt4 in Kubuntu, we are pretty dead certain that post-release updates to Qt (4 or 5) are a REALLY bad idea.
<soren> Auditing interfaces as well as defining which interfaces are considered "key".
<ScottK> It's not just the interfaces that need to be stable.  It's the behavior behind the interfaces.
<mdz> that's part of the interface, as I'm using the term
<ScottK> Updating core components seems to me to be approximately the oppposite of what one would want to in an LTS.
<ScottK> After all, people use LTS instead of the regular release because they want stability and consistency.
<soren> Well, sort of.
<stgraber> I also have the feeling that allowing this and having the SRU team do the very close auditing required by such things would in practice be more time consuming than cherry-picking the fixes and getting explicit approval for absolutely required API additions
<soren> It's not uncommon to have LTS users ask for new versions of things. They expect it to t be longlived more than strictly consistent.
<soren> We've traditionally considered this view to be ultimately incoherent.
<soren> But it's certainly not an uncommon view, there is /some/ divergence in what people expect of an LTS.
<ScottK> soren: Right.  They often want the thing they want to be new and everything else to be stable.
<soren> ScottK: Spot on.
<stgraber> right, wanting LTS and wanting the latest version of the system doesn't quite work ;) leaf packages can be backported and we should try and encourage that. For specific self-contained stacks, PPAs also work rather well, but getting newer versions of core/heavily-shared components is very risky business
<soren> Indeed.
<soren> I wonder if there would be a useful way to grant an extended MRE for certain things.
<soren> Like unity as in Mark's example.
<soren> "Extended MRE" == and MRE that isn't limited to micro releases.
<ScottK> In Kubuntu we generally backport KDE major releases to previous releases in a PPA.  It's quite popular, but it also frequently comes with regressions.
 * ScottK would never do it in the Ubuntu archive.
<ScottK> soren: Such an exception exists for clamav, so it's been done before.
<ScottK> That is a pretty unusual case though.
<soren> When applying for such an exception, the APIs would need to be specified in the request.
<soren> And ideally some sort of external API test suite should be provided that would help us verify that the API indeed doesn't change.
<ScottK> The clamav one was more about regression testing to validate consistency of behavior.
<soren> ScottK: clamav was special in many ways. The exception was granted not because of someone's desire for newer, cooler stuff, but simply out of necessity since new databases woudln't work with older clamavs.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<soren> So while the technicalities might be related, the motivation was entirely different.
<ScottK> Some exceptions you grant because upstream is sane.  Sometimes it's the opposite.
<soren> *g*
<soren> I feel that this is something that we must consider on a case-by-case basis at the TB level.
<soren> Perhaps Unity would be a good guinea pig (if we're willing to entertain the concept at all).
<soren> Does anyone feel qualified and motivated to write up a more specific proposal?
<ScottK> Personally, I'm deeply concerned that someone will think this is going to be a wonderful approach for Qt5 in 14.04 and I'm pretty sure it won't.
<soren> ScottK: I'm confident your opinion on that subject will have an impact on any decision on the subject.
<ScottK> If I had a vote, I'd vote for maintaining the current policy - in the Unity case, the safe performance patches have already be backported vai SRU.
<ScottK> I'd suggest to defer deciding on it until there's an actual case that needs it.
<soren> The proposal as given in Marks e-mail is too vague for us to vote on it.
<ScottK> Then the TB can evaluate that and see what they think both about it and a more general policy.
<soren> I'm cool with that. It seems like we're generally willing to at least consider it, so if anyone wants to pursue it for a particular component, they should be encouraged to propose it.
<soren> Does anyone else have anything to say on this subject?
<soren> Guess not.
<stgraber> nope. I'm always happy to discuss specific exceptions to our policies and I agree that for this, it's probably best to wait until someone actually need it before we go ahead and discuss changing policies.
<soren> Excellent.
<soren> Moving on.
<soren> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
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 * soren does so
<soren> I don't see anything.
<soren> #topic Check up on community bugs (standing item)
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<soren> None.
<soren> Yay.
<soren> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
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<soren> I've completely lost track of the order
<mdz> I believe stgraber is next
<stgraber> yep
<soren> stgraber: You're next according to my alphabet, but you seem to have been chairing a lot recently :)
<soren> Alright.
<stgraber> soren: I think I only chaired once in January so far, so I don't mind chairing the next one if that gets us back in alphabetical order ;)
<soren> Cool :)
<stgraber> and TB meetings are way easier to chair than DMB ;)
<soren> Err... What's the meetbot magic to denote decisions?
<stgraber> #agreed?
<soren> Yes! That!
<soren> #agreed stgraber to chair next meeting
<soren> stgraber: Thanks :)
<soren> Any other business?
<soren> Alright, thanks for showing up everyone.
<soren> #endmeeting
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<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  1 20:53:09 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-01-20.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-01-20.01.html
<stgraber> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-02
<Daviey> hola o/
<roaksoax> o/
<zul> hi
<arosales> hello o/
<Daviey> Is my TZ correct, that we should be expecting the meeting now?
 * arosales looking at chair in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<arosales> Daviey: looks correct on my calendar
<Daviey> #startmeeting Ubuntu Server Meeting
<hallyn_> spamaps is not around
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  2 16:02:38 2013 UTC.  The chair is Daviey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
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<hallyn_> oh ok :)
<Daviey> m_3: You didn't do the minutes :(
<hallyn_> didn't arosales run it last week?
<arosales> I don't think jimbaker or Ursinha are available this week.
<arosales> hallyn_: m_3 was last week
<hallyn_> order on wiki page seems weird then
<arosales> hallyn_: I chaired on 2013-03-19
<hallyn_> oh, bc m_3 didn't udpate it :)
<Daviey> I am trying to quickly scan it now
<hallyn_> sorry, carry on
<arosales> rbasak: are you available to chair this week?
<arosales> hmm . . . going down the list I think jamespage is out so next would be zul
<Daviey> Okay, seems to be contentless :)
<zul> uh?
<Daviey> arosales: I suspect I am on the hook.
<arosales> ah, ok
<zul> i think i agree with daviey ;)
<arosales> :-)
<rbasak> arosales: it looks like Daviey is chairing?
<Daviey> #topic Raring Development
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<Daviey> Release Tracking Bug Tasks
<Daviey> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-r-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<Daviey> could someone else take bug 1157918 ?
<ubottu> bug 1157918 in horizon (Ubuntu Raring) "Network selection tab when starting instance renders incorrectly" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157918
<Daviey> adam_g is back this week., so might make sense
<Daviey> adam_g to follow up from back scroll
<Daviey> roaksoax: bug 1064527
<ubottu> bug 1064527 in maas (Ubuntu Raring) "detect_ipmi needs improvement. detects non-existant device in nested kvm" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064527
<Daviey> roaksoax: Do you understand the use case for this?
<roaksoax> Daviey: yes! I haven't gotten to an effective solution but disable auto probing seems to fix it
<roaksoax> Daviey: i don't yet know the implecations of disabling it since it would be disabling in-band checking
<Daviey> super
<Daviey> roaksoax: isn't there some fingerprint it's Qemu?
<Daviey> hallyn_: ^ ?>
<Daviey> hallyn_: What fingerprint is best exposed to the guest that it is a Qemu instance ?
<zul> Daviey:  its in the dmidecode isnt it?
<hallyn_> cpuinfo?
<Daviey> roaksoax / hallyn_: can you work together to find something that allows you to make ipmi detection conditional ? :)
<Daviey> roaksoax: bug 1073463 ?
<ubottu> bug 1073463 in maas (Ubuntu Raring) "User-configurable files are not installed in /etc" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1073463
<roaksoax> Daviey: looking at it now
<Daviey> super
<Daviey> So........... who wants to volunteer for bug 1162139
<ubottu> bug 1162139 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Raring) "mysql-5.5 still built using GCC-4.4, should be built with the default GCC" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1162139
<Daviey> Looks like a low hanging, high reward tasty fruit
<Daviey> hello doko
 * Daviey prepares to spin the bottle.
<doko> ?
<Daviey> rbasak, i fear the bottle landed on you.
<rbasak> Hmm, OK.
<rbasak> I am doing +1 maintenance this month so it might fall into that anyway.
<Daviey> that was my thinking :)
<rbasak> That's a clever bottle you have there :-)
<Daviey> zul: bug 1066845 ?
<ubottu> bug 1066845 in nova (Ubuntu Quantal) "nova-novncproxy is not running; Suggest: novnc should be Depends" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066845
<zul> Daviey:  uploaded like this morning
<Daviey> so it is!
<Daviey> bug 1121874 .. hmmmm
<ubottu> bug 1121874 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Raring) "MySQL launch fails silently if < 4MB of disk space is available" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1121874
<doko> while you are at mysql-5.5 ... it's still built using gcc-4.4 :-(
<Daviey> doko: If you were here earlier.... that would have been good timing
<Daviey> rbasak: Does it make sense to try and do someting with that, whilst tackling 1162139?
<rbasak> Daviey: ack
<doko> maybe configure using openssl?
<Daviey> TOPIC Blueprints
<Daviey> #TOPIC Blueprints
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<Daviey> #LINK http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-servercloud-overview.html
<Daviey> lets look at the Reds
<Daviey> smoser: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-image-access
<Daviey> can you comment on it?
<smoser> we're in much better position now.
<Daviey> outstanding is, collect complete list Ubuntu server bits to be supported: TODO
<smoser> simplestreams client has been uploaded to cloud-init
<smoser> i think we have the list
<smoser> but we don thave data for everything
<smoser> still to get data produced for maas and for installer files
<Daviey> right.. Doesn't sound concerning.. progress looks good.. thanks smoser
<utlemming> smoser: I'm going to be working on MAAS this week to get that data
<Daviey> Next.
<Daviey> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-seeded-qa-workflow
<Daviey>  .. I will comment in lieu of jamespage
<smoser> utlemming, oh, good.
<Daviey> It's mostly dep-8 stuff making it look so poor.
<Daviey> I think we will have to defer some of them, but we should probably all try and nab a test.. It's good to learn how dep-8 works
<Daviey> So,
<Daviey> #ACTION ALL, please look to hijack a dep-8 test from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-seeded-qa-workflow
<meetingology> ACTION: ALL, please look to hijack a dep-8 test from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-seeded-qa-workflow
<Daviey> Cookies for those that do this.
<Daviey> NEXT
<Daviey> #TOPIC https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-cloudarchive
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<Daviey> canary testing of cloud-archive pockets with 12.04 on a daily basis: TODO
<Daviey>  .. Probably needs Jamesage or adam_g to comment
<Daviey> same with, bug reporting apport stuff for cloud-archive to ensure bugs get to the right location: TODO
<Daviey> And Doc's and Communications.  We should get to this
<Daviey> but generally, it seems we are looking OK
<Daviey> NEXT
<Daviey> #TOPIC https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-mysql
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<Daviey> Nobody has been able to pick this up from Spamaps yet
<arosales> Daviey: ya I need to follow up with Norvald on this
<Daviey> arosales: Are you happy to do that?
<arosales> yup, I will follow up with norvald
<Daviey> reducing the delta should be postponed for this cycle IMO
<Daviey> but packaging percona for Ubuntu still seems a good idea IMO
<Daviey> Depending on complexity
<Daviey> #ACTION arosales to follow up with Norvald regarding SRU
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales to follow up with Norvald regarding SRU
<arosales> Daviey: ack, on the postpone
<Daviey> zul: Would you have capacity to review complexity of packaging perconia for Ubuntu?
<zul> Daviey:  sure
<Daviey> thanks
<Daviey> #ACTION zul to review complexity of packaging perconia for Ubuntu NEW
<meetingology> ACTION: zul to review complexity of packaging perconia for Ubuntu NEW
<Daviey> NEXT
<Daviey> #TOPIC https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-openstack-ubuntu-images
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<Daviey> smoser: can you comment ?
<Daviey> smoser: mostly tieing juju into simplestreams data, right?
<smoser> we're making progress there. that work is in simpelstreams client.
<smoser> a glance mirror is in trunk right now.
<smoser> and it needs to be taught how to write to swift.
<smoser> but then we'll be really close.
<Daviey> smoser: is py-juju or juju-core the intended target?
<Daviey> And is it still on target for Raring?
<smoser> juju-core.
<smoser> its on the juju todo lists, but i think of not significant priority compared to other things
<Daviey> smoser: Can you reach out to juju-core and discuss what we can achieve for Raring?
<smoser> yeah. i will
<Daviey> #ACTION Smoser to reach out to juju-core and discuss what integration with ubuntu image meta data can be done for Raring.
<meetingology> ACTION: Smoser to reach out to juju-core and discuss what integration with ubuntu image meta data can be done for Raring.
<Daviey> thanks
<Daviey> #TOPIC https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-apt-improvements
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<Daviey> rbasak: ^ ?
<rbasak> No progress on this. Sorry. It will miss Raring.
<rbasak> I'll mark the WIs as postpoooooooooooooned.
<Daviey> Thanks
<Daviey> rbasak: Can you make steps to make sure it is nailed for Raring+1 ?
<Daviey> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
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<Daviey> Any events?
<rbasak> Will do
<Daviey> (rbasak, thanks)
<Daviey> So, openstack summit is starting to creep up on us
<Daviey> A bunch of Ubuntu Server developers will be in Portland, Oregan 15th-18th April
<Daviey> Anything else?
<Daviey> #TOPIC Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
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<Daviey> plars: Are you here?
<Daviey> Anybody waving the QA flag here?
<Daviey> .. shame.
<Daviey> #TOPIC Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
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<smb> I would like to get two features we were asked to add into Raring Xen.
<smb> Package is prepared, tracking bugs have ubuntu-release-team subscribed
<smb> but no feedback for a week. Is there something else I should do?
<Daviey> smb: Have the bug numbers handy?
<smb> bug 1160373 and bug 1160378
<ubottu> bug 1160373 in xen (Ubuntu) "Support for APIC Virtualization in Xen" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160373
<ubottu> bug 1160378 in xen (Ubuntu) "TSC offset support for Xen" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160378
<Daviey> #ACTION Daviey to follow up on bugs bug 1160373 and bug 1160378
<meetingology> ACTION: Daviey to follow up on bugs bug 1160373 and bug 1160378
<plars> Daviey: hi, yes
<Daviey> smb: I will provide resolute today.
<smb> Daviey, thanks
<smb> I got nothing else if nobody has any questions.
<Daviey> plars: wb
<Daviey> Anyone have any Kernel questins?
<plars> Daviey: I thought the meeting was supposed to start at 15:00 UTC - that's what it is on my caldendar and I didn't see anyone around, sorry
<plars> Daviey: I don't have anything at the moment though
<Daviey> plars: Ok, thanks.. We are pretty thin today
<Daviey> Thanks smb
<Daviey> I'll move on.. thanks both
<Daviey> #TOPIC Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
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<rbasak> No updates from me this week.
<Daviey> Splendid
<Daviey> anyone for rbasak ?
<Daviey> #TOPIC Open Discussion
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<Daviey> Anyone have anything?
<Daviey> Okay!
<Daviey> #TOPIC Announce next meeting date, time and chair
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<Daviey> Same time as this week, but 9th April.  I suspect most of the world is on their summer timezone now.
<Daviey> Chair, i fear will be rbasak
<rbasak> Ack
 * Daviey will clean up the rota, as it's currently not accurate 
<Daviey> lets go home
<Daviey> thanks all o/
<Daviey> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  2 16:44:27 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-02-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-02-16.02.html
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## Kernel team meeting in 1 minute
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  2 17:00:20 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/raring
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<rtg_> o/
<cking> o/
<bjf> o/
<henrix> o/
<smb> o/
<sconklin> o/
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<jsalisbury> We can come back to this topic.
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-delta-review               || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-secure-boot             || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-aarch64                 || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-1303-phablet-kernel-maintenance || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-kernel-version-and-flavors || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-kernel-misc                || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || mobile-power-management               || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || rtg       || hardware-r-delta-review               || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || sforshee  || foundations-1303-phablet-kernel-maintenance || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> The above summarizes the remaining work items owned by individuals on
<ogasawara> our team for the rest of the 13.04 cycle.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Highlights from this past week include rebasing Raring to the latest
<ogasawara> v3.8.5 upstream stable kernel, adding Highbank support, and renaming our
<ogasawara> omap arm flavor to generic to better reflect is new nature of a
<ogasawara> mutiplatform arm kernel.  We have also rebased our unstable-3.9
<ogasawara> branch to the latest upstream v3.9-rc5.
<ogasawara> Please be aware that Beta Release for Raring is fast approaching, ie
<ogasawara> this Thurs Apr 4.  Kernel Freeze is next week on Apr 11.  All patches
<ogasawara> submitted after Kernel Freeze must adhere to our SRU policy.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 04 - 13.04 Final Beta Release (~2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 11 - Kernel Freeze (~1 week)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2013-04-02 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 73 CVEs on our radar, with 7 CVE retired this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until tiday (Feb. 26):
<bjf>   *   Hardy - Nothing this cycle
<bjf>   *   Lucid - In Prep; (2 commits)
<bjf>   * Oneiric - In Prep; 4 upstream releases; (100 commits)
<bjf>   * Precise - In Prep; 1 upstream releases; (150 commits)
<bjf>   * Quantal - In Prep; 1 upstream releases; (164 commits)
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>   * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  2 17:04:43 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-02-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-02-17.00.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-03
<ev> o/
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> \o
<barry> o-
<stokachu> (>';')>
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr  3 15:02:12 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> bdmurray xnox jodh cjwatson ogra stgraber barry stokachu ev doko slangasek
<slangasek> bdmurray is off today, so xnox:
 * stgraber waves
<xnox> yeap.
<xnox> * Desktop lvm automatic utah test is merged, not added to jenkins just
<xnox>   yet.
<xnox> * Fixing FTBFS from the recent rebuild (focused on tcltk multiarch
<xnox>   fallout and canonical-upstream packages)
<xnox> * Uploaded partman-auto-lvm sru to precise for bug 1091788
<xnox> * Pycurl bug with thin-client-config-agent is in progress bug #1152222
<ubottu> bug 1091788 in partman-auto-lvm (Ubuntu Precise) "debian-installer: creation of volume group (LVM) fails if hostname corresponds with an existing device name" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1091788
<xnox> * Working on installer bugs for rls-r-tracking.
<ubottu> bug 1152222 in thin-client-config-agent (Ubuntu) "thin-client-config-agent fails in pycurl with TypeError: string argument expected, got 'bytes'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1152222
<xnox> * Also TODO review lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/allow-multiple-cmdline-confdirs
<xnox> * Very short week due to Eastern holiday friday-monday, booked travel
<xnox>   for the client sprint
<xnox> ..
<jodh> * blueprints:
<jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-roadmap: np.
<jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements:
<jodh>     - DEP-8 python test harness progress:
<jodh>       - Now supports testing with PID 1, Session Init, and Session bus
<jodh>         environments (the latter two both using either a default (XDG)
<jodh>         session or a "stand-alone" test instance).
<jodh>       - Currently resolving inotify issue.
<jodh>     - Modified upstart to allow multiple "--confdir <dir>" options for
<jodh>       session mode (required for DEP-8, awaiting feedback on MP):
<jodh>       https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/upstart/allow-multiple-cmdline-confdirs/+merge/156512
<jodh>     - Fixed bug 1161098 upstream.
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1161098 could not be found
<jodh> * boot:
<jodh>   - Progress on bug 1157713.
<ubottu> bug 1157713 in upstart "upstart tests which run without inotify fail occasionally" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157713
<jodh>   - Added mountall to list of projects being checked by Coverity.
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - Testing for bug 1103406.
<ubottu> bug 1103406 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel disabled console output and keyboard lights in early boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1103406
<jodh> * TODO:
<jodh>   - Finish draft blog post on Upstart sessions.
<jodh> È¡
<cjwatson> Short week (Easter Triduum).
<cjwatson> Finished rewriting cdimage in Python.
<cjwatson> Had another go at bug 1065281.  Still apparently incomplete.
<cjwatson> Fixed ubiquity build failure due to gobject-introspection change.
<cjwatson> Fixed deadlock in aptdaemon due to unflushed stdio buffers (bug 1163142, bug 1163163, probably many others).
<cjwatson> Pushed the Haskell transition up the hill some more.  The powerpc problems should be mostly sorted.  I found some advice on #ghc so may be able to continue to sort out the armhf problems now.
<ubottu> bug 1065281 in OEM Priority Project quantal "Installer crashed when trying to partition 4k/4k sector hard disks" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1065281
<ubottu> bug 1163142 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "Hangs when "preconfiguring packages" at the installation of a language" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163142
<cjwatson> Helped IS recover royal (powerpc livefs porter), which turned out to be a lurking fstab-related problem that would probably have bitten other livefs builders on their next reboot.
<ubottu> bug 1163163 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Raring) "aptdaemon does not give a terminal/gtk debconf prompt" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163163
<cjwatson> ..
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_>  * livecd-rootfs should be able to create cross built android zips for the four supported arches now (still waiting for some RTs to be done to actually test that)
<ogra_>  * fixed chromium-browser FTBFS on arm (finally its not three versions behind anymore on armhf)
<ogra_>  * easter vacation ...
<ogra_>  * power management on Touch discussion ... very early planning, we will have a public hangout going forward with this and go more into details by then
<ogra_>  * kernel updates of android kernels were researched by ppisati, seems to work fine using abootimg from teh archive, i will soon look into flash-kernel abilities to intergrate
<ogra_>  
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_>  * cdimage implementation of cross building the android zips (once the RT is in)
<ogra_>  * testing (and possibly fixing, as there seem to be some bugs) of raring armhf images (omap4, ac100, nexus7 desktop)
<ogra_>  * see if i can get some armhf universe FTBFS fixed before final release
<ogra_> ..
<stgraber> Feature work:
<stgraber>  - Container (BLUEPRINT: servercloud-r-lxc)
<stgraber>   - Spent most of Monday doing code reviews, last minute fixes, a lot of testing and sending the LXC 0.9 final pull request.
<stgraber>   - Prepared LXC 1.0 roadmap: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXC/1.0-roadmap
<stgraber>   - Updated the Plumbers mini-conference wiki: http://wiki.linuxplumbersconf.org/2013:containers
<stgraber>   - Looked into an early Go binding for LXC
<stgraber>   - Fixed bug 1157332 in raring + quantal SRU
<ubottu> bug 1157332 in lxc (Ubuntu Quantal) "/etc/dnsmasq.d-available/lxc circular link " [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157332
<stgraber>  - Mobile updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1303-single-image-update)
<stgraber>   - Had a few more meetings and discussion on the implementation of image based updates, taking quite a bit of time from actual implementation time :)
<stokachu> goWOOT
<stgraber>   - Updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades/Mobile and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades/Mobile/LocalPackages
<stgraber>   - Worked on prototype of the server side tools, I now have a tool to diff squashfs images, one to generate the zip files and one to scan and generate the needed files.
<stgraber>  - Mobile networking (BLUEPRINT: client-1303-converged-network-stack)
<stgraber>   - cyphermox got the code to actually work without segfaulting
<stgraber>   - caught up with awe on state of the ofono/Android driver
<stgraber>  - Mobile sync and provisioning (OMA) (BLUEPRINT: client-1303-we-should-create-one)
<stgraber>   - Went through all the OMA specs, start working on a summary of those
<stgraber>   - Looked into opensource implementation of syncml and other OMA specs
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - A few queue reviews for raring
<stgraber>  - Killed wubi dailies and QATracker entries
<stgraber>  - Tracked down and fixed QATracker ACL bug
<stgraber>  - TB meeting
<stgraber> TODO:
<stgraber>  - Continue spec work for the mobile blueprints and continue image based updates prototype
<stgraber>  - Come up with the list of Xsession scripts that still need porting to upstart user-sessions (outside of standard desktop install).
<xnox> cjwatson: I wonder if that aptdaemon also fixed 1161943 which is reported to work fine with today's images.
<stgraber>  - ifupdown SRU to quantal and precise
<stgraber> Holidays:
<stgraber>  - I'm off starting on Friday (5th) and back next Thursday (11th).
<stgraber>  - I'll then be working from Europe on the local timezone.
<stgraber>  - I'll also be off from Monday 15th and back Thursday 18th.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<barry> short week due to vacation.  wrote up pycon trip report and general catching up. lpbug 1154599.  lpbug 1163609.  todo: continue to investigate lpbug 1163609.  return to click package spec.  done.
<barry> bug 1163609
<ubottu> bug 1163609 in pycurl (Ubuntu Raring) "pycurl FTBFS due to segfault in test suite" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163609
<barry> bug 1154599
<ubottu> bug 1154599 in python2.7 (Ubuntu) "getaddrinfo() returns -11 (EAI_SYSTEM) instead of -2" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1154599
<stokachu> [Current]
<stokachu> * LP#1162876 - apt-cacher-ng data corruption with HTTP headers
<stokachu> 	       [task] Need Sponsor/SRU
<stokachu> * LP#1057358 - isc-dhcp-server-ldap cannot read /etc/ldap/ldap.conf
<stokachu> 	       [task] stgraber to please re-review latest debdiff
<stokachu> * LP#1013798 - Blink SIP client segfaults with libgcrypt11
<stokachu> 	       [task] Needs SRU/Sponsor
<stokachu> [Postponed]
<stokachu> * LP#857983  - Pointing Devices menu item is missing after upgrading
<cjwatson> xnox: It's possible.  I'll mention it
<stokachu> 	       [comment] This did not have ubuntu-sru subscribed, so I subscribed
<stokachu> 	       [task] Revist next week to check status
<stokachu> * LP#1027086 - incorrect schema setting used for authentication-methods in vino
<stokachu> 	       [task] Ritesh to properly format SRU in description and follow up with SRU team
<stokachu> crap forgot about bug bot
<stokachu> bug 1162876, bug 1057358, bug 1013798
<ubottu> bug 1162876 in apt-cacher-ng (Ubuntu Precise) "apt-cacher-ng data corruption with HTTP headers" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1162876
<ubottu> bug 1057358 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Precise) "dhcpd in isc-dhcp-server-ldap cannot read /etc/ldap/ldap.conf due to missing entry in apparmor profile" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057358
<slangasek> jodh: where is the coverity report on (upstart and) mountall?  do I need to get around to creating an account to be able to view those?
<ubottu> bug 1013798 in libgcrypt11 (Ubuntu Raring) "Blink SIP client segfaults with libgcrypt11 1.5.0-3ubuntu0.1" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013798
<stgraber> stokachu: isc-dhcp, what's the priority on that? Currently it's on bug to-bundle-with-next-SRU list, should it be bumped to fine-to-upload-on-its-own?
<stokachu> stgraber: nah just as long as its on your radar
<stgraber> ok, definitely still on my radar. (I go through all netstack bugs weekly)
<stokachu> stgraber: cool, thats good enough for me, thanks
<jodh> slangasek: http://scan.coverity.com/all-projects.html. You do need an account - I'll create you one...
<ev> - Short week; public holiday on Friday and Monday.
<ev> - Bug triage.
<ev> - Code review for Brian.
<ev> - Looked into having different replication factors across DCs. Historically we
<ev>   thought this was not possible, but it appears we were wrong. Still, after
<ev>   talking with the Cassandra folks, it sounds like that will lead to
<ev>   performance problems. It would have let us have a large single-node Cassandra
<ev>   ring for analytics and backup (in the failover sense of the word), but I
<ev>   think we're going to have to find the hardware for balanced DCs.  Started a
<ev>   discussion with Tom and James. Hopefully this will unblock us on upgrading
<ev>   Cassandra to 1.2 and deploying Hadoop soon.
<ev> - Changes to lp:canonical-memento in support of some of our outstanding RTs
<ev>   (new CFs in the ACL).
<ev> - Tried to touch base with the QA team on how we can improve errors.ubuntu.com
<ev>   for them. No responses yet.
<ev> - Implemented a mapping between SHA-1 hashes and the bucket identifiers they
<ev>   come from, so we can have URLs like:
<ev>   https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/e983f374794de9c64e3d1c1de1d490c0756eeeff
<ev>   Thought about doing sha1(x).hexdigest()[:10], but I'm worried about
<ev>   collisions.
<ev>   This fixes a few problems, namely that bucket IDs can be up to 64K long and
<ev>   URLs start to break past 2K, and that bucket IDs can contain special
<ev>   characters, which makes embedding them in javascript tricky.
<ev> - Fixed bugs in apport to dogfood errors.ubuntu.com, and because xnox found an
<ev>   interesting one.
<ev> - Fixed bugs in oops-repository and daisy. Fixed the retracers crashing and
<ev>   leaking FDs when processing the failed to retrace queue.
<ev> - Prototyped a new method of counting instances of of buckets (with releases,
<ev>   packages, and package versions) by the hour, which will let us finally solve
<ev>   the problem that "the past day" is the UTC day, not a rolling one, that "the
<ev>   past month" is just the current calendar month, and the "the past year" is
<ev>   just the current calendar year. Initial findings look really promising when
<ev>   simulating a comparatively large load to what we receive every day, and I
<ev>   hope to have a branch ready to land on trunk by the end of the week.
<ev> - Finally read enough about Three-Phase Uniform Threshold to understand how to
<ev>   implement it. This will let us more quickly sort across random date ranges,
<ev>   where we cannot cheat by keeping pre-calculated count-ordered lists
<ev>   (LP: #1052954).
<ev> - Perpetually fighting canonistack (RT 60371).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1052954 in Daisy "top-k for arbitrary ranges is complex" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1052954
<ev> (done)
<doko> - long weekend (Fri and Mon holidays)
<doko> - python 2.7.4 and 3.3.1 release candidates
<doko> - toolchain merge
<doko> - raring test rebuild
<doko> - fixing build failures
<doko> - fixing packages for migration
<doko> (done)
<ev> No more wubi. End of an era.
<barry> wu-bye
<ev> ha!
<ev> I see what you did there
<ogra_> ++
<slangasek> ev: great news about fixing the "the past day" report :)
<slangasek>  * short week, with three days of vacation
<slangasek>  * spent a lot of time hacking bug #763148 in compiz... almost but not quite figured out
<ubottu> bug 763148 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Adding/Removing an external monitor causes open windows to move to another workspace" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/763148
<slangasek>  * meager contribution to raring buildability (Debian bug #704572)
<ubottu> Debian bug 704572 in freetds "freetds: Add -lgcrypt to LDFLAGS to fix underlinking" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/704572
<slangasek>  * this week mostly spent on reviews, due at the end of the week (your peer reviews, too!)
<slangasek> (done)
<ev> slangasek: yeah, real soon now. Testing the load of it has required me to write much of the code for it.
<slangasek> any other comments/questions over status?
<ogra_> great work on the image updates stgraber !
<barry> slangasek: apparently, i have no peers
<ogra_> (just wanted to say that)
<stgraber> ogra_: thanks!
 * slangasek peers at barry 
<barry> oh, sorry, i meant pears
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
 * ogra_ hands barry some peas
<slangasek> bdmurray sent me a list, let's see what we have here
 * barry nom nom noms
<slangasek> bug #947107
<ubottu> bug 947107 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "No partition labels in the resize widgets" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/947107
<slangasek> recently reappeared via iso testing
<slangasek> xnox: you commented last on the bug; do you have a handle on fixing it?
<xnox> slangasek: it still was not fixed. I had a minimal sample of the gui problem. Do you have anyone in mind who is awesome with Gtk & Cairo?
<slangasek> well, not me
<slangasek> cjwatson, ev, stgraber?
<xnox> slangasek: in essence the label is updated and printed, but it end up being "painted over" with a cairo surface.
<xnox> s/end/ends/
<slangasek> or if anyone else here wants to give their gtk chops a workout
 * xnox can try poking it again and pinging #-desktop people about it.
<cjwatson> my awesomeness is pretty rusty :)
<ev> it's been a long long time. I'm not sure I'd be any more help.
<slangasek> xnox: ok, sounds like we'll leave it with you to follow up with the desktop team
<slangasek> next
<cjwatson> yeah, looking at that I don't think I'd be any faster than somebody coming at it from scratch
<slangasek> bug #1078697
<ubottu> bug 1078697 in Launchpad itself "Ubuntu archive is missing SHA-1/SHA-256 hashes for some packages" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078697
<stgraber> slangasek: well, I've been fixing that kind of bug in the past but I'm really not efficient at it and I won't be around much in the next 2 weeks or so, so if I work on this, it likely won't make 13.04
<xnox> slangasek: mass upload no-change rebuild for packages that are missing those hashes? =)))))
<slangasek> bdmurray notes there's a branch from mvo but that the bug report seems to be stalled
<xnox> langpacks got fixed so the set should be small now, and they will benefit from new toolchain/debhelper rebuild.
<cjwatson> xnox: waste of effort when apt-ftparchive can do it, surely
<slangasek> xnox: well, should this be fixed in apt-ftparchive itself like mvo proposes?
<slangasek> barry: can I give this to you to follow up on?
<barry> slangasek: sure
<slangasek> assigned
<slangasek> barry: thanks
<slangasek> bug #957231
<ubottu> bug 957231 in apt (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in debListParser::LoadReleaseInfo()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/957231
<xnox> cjwatson: yeah, it's still a fair amount of packages left without those checksums.
<slangasek> bdmurray notes that there are new duplicates of this bug happening in raring
<cjwatson> barry: note that you need to get a fix into either lucid-cat (via IS) or lucid-updates, and preemptively into precise-cat (via IS) or precise-updates, in order for it to be effective for LP
<slangasek> OTOH there are a total of 6 duplicates, so maybe this isn't a high priority bug unless someone sees an obvious quick fix?
<barry> cjwatson: i'm not sure what that means, since i have zero context atm, but i'll try to remember your suggestion when i read the whole bug report ;)
<cjwatson> slangasek: it's failing on a particular PPA, I notice
<cjwatson>         buffer = "Origin: LP-PPA-webupd8team-java\n\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\244\201", '\000' <repeats 22 times>, "d.\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\020\000\000\000\000\000\000\030\376=\003\000\000\000\000i|cO\000\000\000\000jfd."
<slangasek> cjwatson: is that consistent in the duplicates?
<cjwatson> One moment ...
<slangasek> well, the retracer didn't really leave that info in the duplicate bugs
<cjwatson> Yeah, none of them have sufficiently detailed traces
<cjwatson> failing loc is
<cjwatson>          case Origin: FileI->Origin = WriteUniqString(data); break;
<slangasek> so nothing suggests to me that this should be moved to the top of the priority list
<cjwatson> It's writing into the cache - could be some kind of problem with those ghastly C++ gadgets for doing that (remember quantal?)
<cjwatson> Yeah, agreed
<slangasek> cjwatson: do you want to take a bit of time with further triage since you're already in it, then kick it back onto the pile assuming you don't see anything that makes it critical?
<slangasek> bug #1160346
<ubottu> bug 1160346 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade from Ubuntu 12.04 on Pentium-M fails, breaks system without any warning (This kernel does not support a non-PAE CPU)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160346
<cjwatson> slangasek: I've got far enough in triage to know I don't want to touch it further :-), but I'll leave a comment with my findings, at least
<slangasek> cjwatson: :)
<slangasek> so, bug #1160346 is definitely something we can guard against in the upgrader... users would I'm sure much rather be reminded they can't upgrade their system to later releases before they've downloaded the world and tried to install it
<ubottu> bug 1160346 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade from Ubuntu 12.04 on Pentium-M fails, breaks system without any warning (This kernel does not support a non-PAE CPU)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160346
<slangasek> any volunteers for this one?
 * slangasek decides to take it himself
 * barry groans at pycurl again
<slangasek> from the backtrace, it looks like that may just be a change in the exception interface that needs to be handled?
<barry> slangasek: give it to me and i'll at least take a look
<slangasek> hmm, but it's inside python2.7
<slangasek> barry: thanks
<slangasek> barry: fwiw bdmurray raised this one out of concern that it would affect other apps... so if it's a pycurl bug the answer is probably "yes"
<slangasek> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1150413
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1150413 in procps (Ubuntu) "Cannot allocate memory if process owned by user with large number of groups" [High,Triaged]
<slangasek> "This bug also has a patch and might be worth fixing for R."
<slangasek> oddly, I had the impression that this one /was/ fixed in R
<slangasek> anyway, there's a patch but I don't know its upstream status... maybe someone can dig into that and see if this patch is sane to apply?
<slangasek> doko: can you take this one?
<doko> slangasek, ok
<slangasek> doko: cheers
<slangasek> and that's all the bugs from bdmurray
<stokachu> i got one last bug i forgot to mention
 * slangasek yields the floor to stgraber 
<slangasek> er
<slangasek> stokachu:
<stokachu> bug 1158489, i haven't started work on this yet
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1158489 could not be found
<stokachu> err
<stokachu> bug 1153717
<ubottu> bug 1153717 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Precise) "/usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: no such disk during preseed install" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1153717
<stokachu> i haven't dug into it yet but curious if cjwatson or anyone has any knowledge of this
<stokachu> seems to only affect bare metal
<cjwatson> stokachu: already on my list :)
<stokachu> cjwatson: ok cool thanks man
<cjwatson> I haven't managed to dig into it though, it's dmraid-specific and those are always horrible to debug
<stokachu> yea ive got someone who can reproduce it so ill get more debug data if required
<cjwatson> I don't think I have more useful debugging to request at this point - I already talked with Leonardo to extract the grub-probe debug output that's attached there
<stokachu> ah ok
<stgraber> I'm surprised that a Dell PERC triggers dmraid though
<stgraber> as those are hardware raid controlers and so should be exporting a fairly standard looking device to the OS
<stokachu> i thought perc were more fakeraid/software
<stgraber> PERC is usually the brand DELL uses for their hardware raid controler on servers, those are typically standard LSI hardware raid controllers with custom firmware
<cjwatson> "<lborda> yeah ... Dell PERC H310 PCIe host-based RAID..."
<cjwatson> host-based RAID => fake
<stokachu> love those :(
<stgraber> ok, congrats to DELL for making everything even more confusing than it was ;)
<slangasek> any other bugs?
<cjwatson> stokachu: anyway, the first pass in these is always figuring out the grub-probe command that's failing and then getting output of that with -vv, as lborda did - beyond that I promise to keep you updated with how my investigations are going so you have a better chance of working out the next one
<cjwatson> stokachu: but at this point it's basically laborious tracing through the code alongside the debug output and waiting for something wrong to jump out
<stokachu> cjwatson: cool man ill keep this on my watchlist
<cjwatson> which is why I haven't been able to face it yet :-/
<stokachu> cjwatson: thanks for looking into it though
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> everyone get their fill of Easter candy?
<stokachu> mine had liquor in it
<stokachu> har har har
<barry> no but my peeps did
<slangasek> barry: heh
<slangasek> so can someone explain to me why the only time Cadbury shows up in the US market is at Easter time?
<stokachu> i think the bunny feels he's to important like that matt dude from today show
<cjwatson> Because they know that Americans have no taste so they only get to win when the market is flooded?
<cjwatson> muttermutterdisgustingherschey :)
<slangasek> cjwatson: are you familiar with the Cadbury products that actually get sold here at Easter? :)
<ogra_> haha
<slangasek> a creme egg is not fine dining
<stokachu> hahah
<barry> cjwatson: is hersheys even chocolate?
<cjwatson> Still nicer than herscheys or however it's spelled :)
<cjwatson> We had creme egg ice cream
<cjwatson> YUM
 * slangasek goes into insulin shock vicariously
<cjwatson> I actually had to stop eating cake due to sugar overload
<ev> Cadbury? You mean Phillip Morris?
<cjwatson> I don't know what the world's coming to
<slangasek> ev: didn't Phillip Morris rebrand? :)
<slangasek> ("Altria")
<ev> with lots of warm colours, yeah
<slangasek> anyway, clearly we've reached the end of the productive part of this meeting
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr  3 15:56:41 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-03-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-03-15.02.html
<ogra_> tobacco chocolate ?
<ogra_> thanks !
<stgraber> thanks!
<slangasek> feel free to continue bantering :)
<ev> we all know that Paul a Young is the only real place to get quality chocolate
 * barry would but all this talk of chocolate at lunchtime has made him too hungry
<jodh> slangasek: don't you mean bantam-ing? :)
<ev> maybe Green & Blacks if you're feeling lazy
<slangasek> jodh: dict tells me Bantam is "a district of Java", so I think not
<jodh> slangasek: next defn. :)
<slangasek> no next defn here!
<ogra_> barry, ++
<jodh> slangasek: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantam_%28poultry%29
<cjwatson> ev: I'm pretty partial to Hotel Chocolat's output
<ev> ah yes, they're wonderful too
<slangasek> "A Japanese Bantam chick (left) is half the size of an Orpington"
<slangasek> "orpington"?
<cjwatson> (and they're guaranteed no-forced-child-labour; I can't work out whether that's true of Paul A Young's output at a quick glance?)
<slangasek> I only eat certified organic chocolate harvested by Guatemalan jaguars
<cjwatson> Cadbury is no-forced-child-labour, the bar is not *that* high :)
<cjwatson> although irritatingly higher than I might like at times
<slangasek> (jaguars! http://chocolatebar.com/products.php?product=3oz.-Natural-Dark-Chocolate-with-Espresso-Beans)
<cjwatson> slangasek: hah :)
<ev> no idea on the child labour
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-04
 * beuno combs his hair
<smartboyhw> !;
<smartboyhw> s/!;/!?/
<smartboyhw> Is it the CC meeting with Kubuntu?
<beuno> it is
<smartboyhw> LOL you don't need to comb your hair;P
<smartboyhw> Riddell it's about time
<smartboyhw> ScottK apachelogger_ Darkwing jussi JontheEcdina...
<pleia2> hi everyone, time for the CC meeting :)
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  4 17:00:28 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> #chair Gwaihir beuno
<meetingology> Current chairs: Gwaihir beuno pleia2
<smartboyhw> o/
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<pleia2> the only scheduled agenda item is the catch-up with the kubuntu council folks
<smartboyhw> I pinged them already
<Riddell> hi
<pleia2> #topic Kubuntu Council catch-up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Council catch-up
<beuno> hi all
<pleia2> so during these catch-ups we pretty much just ask for the team to share with us status and thoughts about their project and team
<pleia2> see if there are any blockers the CC can assist with
<pleia2> anyone is welcome to start :) or we can wait a couple minutes for some others to join us
<smartboyhw> Riddell: kick the rollercoaster:)
<Riddell> hmm
<Riddell> there's been a notable tendancy by canonical recently to take significant decisions
<Riddell> dropping UDS then organising a replacement vUDS at a week's notice was very bad community management
<beuno> indeed
 * pleia2 nods
<smartboyhw> +1
 * smartboyhw remembers writing angry blogposts about tht
<Riddell> announcing a change from X to an internal project they've been working on for some time was very badly handled
<pleia2> I've been working with Jono and Rick on some of these things to see how we can improve communication community-wide, are there ways these things impacted Kubuntu that we should know about specifically?
<Riddell> some nice friends of mine in KDE have put a lot of time into making lightdm work with kde assuming it'll work with wayland and now will have to do all that work himself, he could have been told long ago
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> thanks, having specific examples helps us a lot
<Riddell> and it's just really worrying technically, who knows how Mir will clash with KWin and Plasma, it won't be easy I'm sure
<beuno> Riddell, so you're worried that making a KDE flavor is going to be increasingly harder?
<Riddell> yes
<Riddell> the dates for the next vUDS haven't been announced, but something has been added to the S release schedule which shows a different date from what everyone was expecting
<smartboyhw_> What did I niss?
<maco> smartboyhw_: we dont know what the last you saw was
<maco> (never disconnected)
<smartboyhw_> Riddel talking about KWin
<Riddell> the website continues to be a pinch point, we have some people wanting to translate it into various languages and do need a database dump but that ticket has gone unanswered by the sysadmins
<maco> smartboyhw_: thats it
<smartboyhw_> good
<Riddell> I'd like to just move the website to our own sever since the sysadmins have a history of being very unresponsive
<smartboyhw_> Riddell: +1
<Riddell> but I've no idea if that will be allowed
<beuno> Riddell, I'm sure that can be discussed. I'd bet Canonical would still own the domain, but delegate DNS
<beuno> and we can certainly chase up those dates for an announcement
<beuno> Riddell, to some extent, I think there's going to be a lot of core focus shifting to the phone and tablet
<beuno> so there's going to be less focus on all the desktops, for a little while
<Riddell> dropping UDS was obviously done as a cost saving measure but it was spun as helping "transparency", that grates, honesty works best
<maco> lde has had a tablet ui for years
<maco> *kde
 * maco 1-hand type w/ food in other hand
<Riddell> wanting to drop 6 monthly releases was obviously discussed internally to canonical long before it got presented to the outside world, I'm not sure why there's a need to keep things hidden
<beuno> so
<beuno> I don't think the primary goal of dropping in-person UDS was cost-savings
<Quintasan> \o
<beuno> they were getting less and less useful
<beuno> they could of just made them smaller
<Riddell> and changing the name releaeses to "interim releases" also grates
<beuno> at a fraction of the cost
<beuno> making them virtual solves a lot of problems
<beuno> it gives them more transparency, opens up for more participation and we can do them more often
<beuno> which maps better to the current engineering pace
<smartboyhw> beuno: And causes some more problems
<beuno> sure, nothing's free  :)
<Riddell> our engineering pace is 6 monthly - Mark spent a lot of time lobbying KDE to do 6 monthly releases
 * beuno nods
<pleia2> I just confirned that vUDS will be May 14-16 http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/
<pleia2> (thanks mhall119)
<pleia2> hasn't been announced as such, so we can nudge them about that too
<Riddell> the ubuntu download page takes donations with an option for "better support for kubuntu", although canonical still puts in significant resources to kubuntu there is no indication that donations on that page go to "better support for kubuntu"
<beuno> Riddell, as for internal discussions about speeding up development, they were done to first understand the impact on the internal engineering teams, and be able to come up with a decent proposal
<beuno> which I think is actually reasonable
<mhall119> pleia2: yeah, we just got confirmation yesterday, and jono's been sick, hence no announcement yet
<beuno> and very non-evil
<smartboyhw> beuno: I do think they should have tell us earlier though.
<beuno> smartboyhw, earliear than what?
<smartboyhw> beuno: midway through the internal discussiom
<beuno> as far as I can tell, there's like a 30 day gap between serious internal discussions and kicking off the public one
<beuno> smartboyhw, that's arbitrary and flaimbait  ;)
<smartboyhw> They should hold a "consultation" thing
<beuno> klook
<beuno> the kick off email wasn't great
<beuno> it really was't
<pleia2> and looking back, it does seem that the community discussion was effective, a lot of great points were brought up, it was a real discussion and the tech board ruled accordingly
<beuno> wasn't
<beuno> but, it was a genuine discussion
<beuno> and the tech board decided
<beuno> that's the community process working
<beuno> I can relate to the bitter feeling on how it got kicked off
<beuno> but reality is that in the end it went through the right process
<smartboyhw> I do think that "support" thing is much more strange than the release process proposal
<pleia2> yeah, initially it didn't feel like a conversation, but I think it turned out ok
<pleia2> so I think everything brought up here are things we've been working on and understand
<Riddell> pleia2: the donations?
<pleia2> Riddell: jono is looking into where they actually go
<beuno> Riddell, we can certainly check up on what the situation is for the kubuntu donations. My guess would be that it barely covers servers and bandwidth
<beuno> but some more transparency there may help
<Darkwing> Sorry, I'm late
<pleia2> I assumed it was for release team working with the flavors, spinning up isos, QA time and infrastructure and hosting
<smartboyhw> Darkwing :)
<Riddell> beuno: those are paid for anyway, the donations are for "better support"
<Riddell> pleia2: ^^
<pleia2> right, that's why he's looking into it for us
<beuno> Riddell, well, paid for, the money comes from somewhere, right?
<mhall119> Riddell: does the Kubuntu community have any recommendations as to what "better support" they would like to see?
<Riddell> if they want to take donations for what they already provide then call it "continued support"
<beuno> but we should be able to understand what the situation is
<pleia2> (to be honest, it's odd to me that people would donate to a company at all, but here we are :))
<mhall119> Canonical is an unusual kind of company :)
<pleia2> I like tax write-offs!
<Riddell> mhall119: sysadmins who are responsive?  a dedicated release manager?
<pleia2> Riddell: dedicated for flavors?
<pleia2> or bringing back a dedicated one for everything?
<smartboyhw> Riddell we have that for Ubunru Studio (me)
<maco> Riddell: i suppose if it meant directing more people to dedicate more of their QA and whatnot hours to kubuntu testing...?
<mhall119> Riddell: can you send jono an email with those requests/recommendations?
<Riddell> flavours are everything, I consider the flagship Ubuntu as much a flavour as anything else
<smartboyhw> pleia2: Bring back skaet:)
<beuno> right, most of those things are a lot of money
<Riddell> maco: that would be good
<beuno> we should understand what the donation range is like first
<Riddell> mhall119: it's too low down my priority list for that I'm afraid
<pleia2> can someone else on the team do it?
<pleia2> I honestly don't know what the kubuntu team expects from these donations, so a list would be super helpful
<mhall119> +1
<Riddell> my preferred solution would be just to transfer it to our bank account
<pleia2> since it's for all the flavors and most don't have bank accounts, I don't think that's a very practical solution
<pleia2> and there are clearly internal things canonical can do to improve things (if you'd tell us what they are)
<smartboyhw> pleia2: I do remember Scott Lavender + knome (maybe + zequence) has talked about some flavour team
<smartboyhw> Which manages all flavours
<Darkwing> I think what we are looking for is, when someone donated to kubuntu, what happens? is it grouped into a flavors list or, does Canonical take it?
<pleia2> but as beuno said, we'll try to work with jono to see how much money we're talking about and nail down where it's going and what the intention was
<Darkwing> We tried that a couple weeks ago
<pleia2> it was certainly a surprise to all of us that it was on the list of donation options without any clear explaining of what they meant
<pleia2> Darkwing: right, that's why you're bringing it to the CC now, so we can help you :)
<Riddell> groovy, I think that's all from me and I need to run off for something non-computery
<pleia2> thanks Riddell!
<Darkwing> :) uh huh. You asked for a list of what we were looking for. While we might be different from other flavors in that we have a bank account, we would like to manage our donations.
<pleia2> Darkwing: can you prepare a list?
<pleia2> or is it just "cash"?
<Darkwing> A list of how much was donated or?...
<pleia2> I think a list of internal ways Canonical an improve flavor support would be a much more effective approach for everyone
<smartboyhw> pleia2 maybe just
<smartboyhw> cash
<pleia2> Darkwing: a list of things you'd like to see Canonical do to improve support
<pleia2> smartboyhw: I think that's very unlikely
<mhall119> cash would be hard, since you'd have to say "Kubuntu gets x% of the donated money"
<smartboyhw> However I think the donation amount is very small
<Darkwing> I think the cash that was donated in Kubuntu's name.
<pleia2> smartboyhw: most of the flavors can't accept it
<mhall119> I don't think it tracks specific flavors, just flavor support in general
<smartboyhw> Actually who here has touched that page and donated something?
<Darkwing> As for support, I think most everyone is not happy witht eh quickness that sysadmins move.
<pleia2> Darkwing: the text is "Better support for flavours like Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu" - it doesn't specify
<smartboyhw> Darkwing: +10000
<Darkwing> mhall119: That's part of the questions... How is that money delt with
<Darkwing> I would like to know what that was going for.
<pleia2> Darkwing: if you get a ticket that's stuck in RT and they haven't been able to help on IRC, you can always forward it to us to look into (we helped the forums folks get things pushed along last year)
<mhall119> Darkwing: agreed, jono is already looking into getting that information
<pleia2> Darkwing: right, this is all what I said we're working with jono on :)
<Darkwing> mhall119: I know, he said that a couple weeks ago.
<mhall119> Darkwing: also remember the community team, looking after you guys and making sure you get the best support from Canonical we can provide is part of our jobs
<Darkwing> Okay, Then I'll sit back and wait some more.
<Darkwing> :) I know.
<mhall119> you can ping me any time
<pleia2> thanks mhall119 :)
<mhall119> :)
<Darkwing> Thanks mhall119 and pleia2
<pleia2> so, how's Kubuntu aside from Canonical issues? :)
<pleia2> gonna be awesome for 13.04? :D
<Darkwing> It's always awesome :P
<pleia2> great!
<smartboyhw> Great!!!
<Darkwing> We are in the middle of some council elections right now.
<smartboyhw> three of the seats are to be elected
<pleia2> ok, just let us know if you need help (I seem to recall we've helped set up polls in the past)
<smartboyhw> 4 are running
<Darkwing> ScottK is running it so, I doubt we'll have an issue with a poll but, we'll let you know
<pleia2> ok great
<Darkwing> Is there anything you guys need from us?
<smartboyhw> Darkwingâ¦
<Darkwing> Yes smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> I thought it will be pleia2 asking this
<smartboyhw> :p
<pleia2> Darkwing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Restaffing might be worth a review
<pleia2> just some tips to make the process smoother
<pleia2> smartboyhw: everyone is welcome to ask questions of each other at these meetings
<Darkwing> pleia2: I'll pass it on to Scott
<Darkwing> Does the CC need anything from teh KC?
<Darkwing> *the
<smartboyhw> yep
<smartboyhw> Indeed I am going to ask sth later
<pleia2> Darkwing: last time Riddell sent the list to the CC, we approved and sent it back for a vote of the community
<pleia2> (historically we've never vetoed anyone)
 * Darkwing raises an eyebrow
<pleia2> then Mark set up the poll
<pleia2> this is how all the councils work
<Darkwing> Okay, I think we are using teh CIVwhatever poll
<Darkwing> But, I'll pass that on.
<pleia2> yep, that's what we used for the 2010 elections
<smartboyhw> pleia2: Currently it is David Wonderly (darkwing) Philip Muscovac (yofel) Rohan Garg (shadeslayer) and one more (forgotten)
<Darkwing> smartboyhw: I'll pull it together in an email :)
<Darkwing> But, Valorie Zimmerman is the 4th so far
<pleia2> (of course this process is always up for discussion if people are concerned, it's just how it's always been done)
<smartboyhw> Darkwing ah yeah I forgotten her:(
<pleia2> anything else?
<Darkwing> Not from our end that I know of.
<pleia2> great, thanks for coming Darkwing :)
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
<Darkwing> Sorry I was late.
<smartboyhw> o/
<beuno> sorry, got called off
<pleia2> anything else for this meeting?
<smartboyhw> Er aren't o/ the syntax in asking questions?
<smartboyhw> o/
<beuno> smartboyhw, maybe. What's up?
<pleia2> smartboyhw: you can just ask questions :)
<smartboyhw> Just asking, is tmr the deadline for Regional Membership Board applications?
<smartboyhw> pleia2, got used to it.
<pleia2> smartboyhw: yes
<smartboyhw> How many people are running?
<pleia2> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/03/22/ubuntu-membership-board-call-for-nominations/
<pleia2> has all the details
<smartboyhw> I know, I sent in mine:)
<pleia2> ok, that also lists how many seats are open, and the deadline
<smartboyhw> How maby people are running for this?
<pleia2> Weâre looking for 5 Ubuntu Members who can participate in the 12:00 UTC meetings:
<pleia2> And for 4 Members who can participate in the 22:00 meetings:
<cprofitt> it was 9 total seats right?
<smartboyhw> s/maby/many/
<pleia2> so yes, 9 seats total
<smartboyhw> cprofitt: Yeah
<cprofitt> end of nominations is tomorrow
<hggdh> at 1200 UTC
<pleia2> we don't know how many people have applied if that's what you're asking, all nominations are being collected by the board, they will send them to us at 1200 tomorrow
<smartboyhw> Oh.
<pleia2> you sent your nomination to the board, right?
<smartboyhw> Also another question: Why isn't the CC's mailing lists open to public when TB does?
<pleia2> that was in the instructions
<smartboyhw> pleia2: yep
<pleia2> smartboyhw: because we have to deal with private disputes between individuals and teams
<smartboyhw> I mean the archive (for the mail list question)
<pleia2> those can't really be public
<smartboyhw> pleia2: And why wouldnt TB?
<pleia2> because they control technical direction, we handle private disputes
<Darkwing> I did have a question pertaining to Ubuntu :)
<smartboyhw> Darkwing: Just ask.
<pleia2> for technical direction it's helpful to have input from the whole technical community, for private disputes we need to just dicuss it with folks involved
<smartboyhw> ;P
<pleia2> people need to know they have a safe space to bring up concerns, etc
<Darkwing> One thing I've had a few people here in Indiana ask is with teh Ubuntu Chinese version, is Ubuntu/Canonical going to work with the China Government on censorship software for the OS rolling out there? I had no idea what to tell them.
<smartboyhw> Darkwing: LOL
<pleia2> Darkwing: not a clue
<cprofitt> Darkwing: do we even know that there is censorship software in their OS?
<smartboyhw> Ask in #ubuntukylin-meeting, the project lead (JackYu) is there
<pleia2> Darkwing: since the deal is between the chinese government and canonical, you probably have to ask canonical
<beuno> Darkwing, no, there's no plans on Canonical working on censorship software
<Darkwing> Hey, I've been asked by about a dozen people... :)
<beuno> they Chinese govt, however, will do whatever they like
<Darkwing> beuno: Okay thanks.
<beuno> I don't think they have the intention of adding something like that into an open source OS
<beuno> they'll probably rely on their existing infrastructure for whatever they want to do
<cprofitt> beuno: that would have been my guess
<beuno> (why censor on an OS level when you can censor on the network level?)
<smartboyhw> lol
<Darkwing> I think it was more of a question of what Canonical was doing... I don't know if it was a trap or a poor attempt of one but, Now I have an answere
 * Darkwing departs to figure out how he broke his system
<pleia2> ok, hit the hour mark, we'll wrap this up then :)
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  4 18:00:54 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-04-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-04-17.00.html
<cprofitt> yes, thanks everyone
<smartboyhw> Darkwing, see ya (and sorry for your system)
<smartboyhw> thx beuno, cprofitt, Riddell, pleia2, Darkwinf
<smartboyhw> pleia2: Sad you aren't running for XPL
<beuno> by everyone!
<pleia2> smartboyhw: thanks, but I already use all my hours in the day :)
<ScottK> Darkwing: I asked about the influence of the Chinese government censorship policies in the Tech Board meeting where they approved the flavor and I was assured by Canonical that there would be one and only one image with identical contents inside and outside China shipping no more than the usual amount of spyware for Ubuntu.
<xnox> Darkwing: the collaboration is with a development group from a university, which are recursively sponsored eventually by the chinese government. But with like all official flavours - all packages are build and signed and published in canonical datacenters and all the installation images are build from that archive in canonical dataceters and signed again. The signing GPG keys are the same as all of the ubuntu archive and ubuntu cd images. Thus if i
<xnox> mages or packages in any way modified by a third party post-release, it can be easily verified by checking the GPG signatures and verifying chain of trust.
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-05
<czajkowski> aloha /c
<smartboyhw> czajkowski, we have a meeting here (now)? Weird:P
<Darkwing> xnox, ScottK thanks for the answers
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-31
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 31 16:36:54 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> last week was pretty busy helping get oxide in the archive (it is), it's MIR done (it is accepted) and landed on touch/desktop (in progress (others are handling this)).
<jdstrand> Also did a lot of testing surrounding !AppArmor signals and ptrace FFe. Testing shows it is in really good shape.
<jdstrand> Took a hard look at golang and commented in MIR to help remove potential impasse
<jdstrand> for this week, I plan to help jjohansen and tyhicks land !AppArmor signals and ptrace FFe
<jdstrand> the kernel bits are all in flight and I don't expect any issues there
 * mdeslaur chuckles at wiki "!AppArmor" syntax :)
<jdstrand> heh
<jdstrand> sorry
<jdstrand> there is also an openjdk-6 upstream regression that is prepared and gotten extensive community testing that I will be pushing out
<cprofitt> no, problem I was able to follow it
<jdstrand> I still have embargoed issues I am working on
<jdstrand> and updates as I have time
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I am patch piloting on friday
<mdeslaur> I am currently working on curl updates
<mdeslaur> and am continuing going down the list
<mdeslaur> that's pretty much it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
 * sbeattie is on apparmor again this week
<sbeattie> Pretty much focused on testing & reviewing in support of landing the ptrace/signal mediation FFe for apparmor
<jdstrand> sbeattie: what is left with the testing beyond what jjohansen implemented?
<sbeattie> signal tests need expansion
<jjohansen> ptrace tests could also use a pass through to make sure a combination wasn't missed
<sbeattie> Yeah, was just going to say I wanted to review the ptrace tests for completeness
<jdstrand> since the kernel seems to be under control for landing, I wondered if perhaps sbeattie would have time to help tyhicks with the distro policy verification/changes
<jjohansen> and testing on the parser language side needs to be worked on as well
<jdstrand> but I don't know what is left with the testing improvements, so I'll just put that out there and leave it at that
<tyhicks> FWIW, I think there is quite a bit of value in expanding the signals testing and reviewing the ptrace test
<sbeattie> jdstrand: eh, I can probably put some time into it as well.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: okay
<sbeattie> anyway, that's the plan for me this week
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<jdstrand> again, I tossed it out there as a conversation point-- feel free to prioritize on whateve makes sense to land this in a well-tested manner
<tyhicks> my focus will be on landing the apparmor userspace ffe
<mdeslaur> ok, well, sbeattie and tyhicks please determine amongst yourselves the best course of action
 * tyhicks nods
<tyhicks> I'll be testing our existing, shipped profiles
<tyhicks> and making adjustments, as needed
<tyhicks> then I'll look into adding support to aa.py for file, pivot_root, signal, and ptrace rules
<tyhicks> and that'll be followed up with the upload
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm working on landing the apparmor FFe this week too. Mostly working with testing and what ever is needed to support tyhicks, sbeattie, and jdstrand.
<jjohansen> If there is time the backport patches need to be updated so that the kernel sync that is part of the FFe can be done for touch. So that post FFe the work need to update touch can begin
<jjohansen> that is it for me sarnold your up
<sarnold> i'm on triage this week
<sarnold> I'm finishing the juju-core MIR today if it goes as expected
<sarnold> that leaves the glusterfs MIR this week
<sarnold> I suspect this week I'll also upgrade my laptop to trusty to add my own dogfooding before release
<sarnold> thanks to those who went before me and already filed a bunch of bugs :)
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> this week, i'm finishing off https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/oxide/window-opening, which adds support for creating new webviews with window.open()
<chrisccoulson> i'm also going to fix up the remaining issues on https://code.launchpad.net/~zaspire/oxide/lp_1259219/+merge/212330 (needed for webapps), as maxim is away this week and there's still some work to do on that
<chrisccoulson> and then more code reviews (i got some of those done last week)
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ibm-3270.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lxsession.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/davfs2.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/claws-mail.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ruby-will-paginate.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 31 17:03:33 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-31-16.36.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand!
<tyhicks> thanks!
<infinity> o/
<infinity> *crickets*
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> pitti was supposed to chair but isn't around, next in line is slangasek
<stgraber> (who may also be missing, not sure)
<infinity> slangasek: Stop being missing.
<stgraber> not that we appear to have anything to discuss anyway
<infinity> If we literally have nothing to discuss, we could just defer the meeting and keep pitti on the hook. :P
<stgraber> yeah, since he promised to be there for the next meeting, I'd be fine with that ;)
<infinity> Shall we do an informal sweep of the state of things and see if we come to that conclusion?
<stgraber> wiki page is empty, bug page is empty, looking at ML now
<infinity> A mailing list sweep really just brings up Mark's "Matters approaching" email, which I think we need to discuss *in depth*, which means on the ML, or when all of us are present (or both).
<stgraber> right, the rest we dealt with I believe (LTS status and MRE)
<kees> o/
<infinity> kees: Your little man is 6 minutes late; fire him.
 * kees fires o
<infinity> kees: Do you have anything to discuss today (like your eternally outstanding MRE review?), or are you cool with deferring, since we seem to be short on both people and topics?
<kees> nope, happy to have someone else take the MRE thing, though
<infinity> I'm not sure anyone else is quite sure exactly what it was you were doing and planning to get out of it. ;)
<kees> mostly it was "should these pMREs go away or get upgraded to MRE?"
<infinity> If you want to send something to the list detailing the sorts of things you planned to audit as criteria, and the end results you were hoping to get out of it, maybe someone (1, 2, 3, not it!) could find some time to help out.
<kees> heh, ok
<infinity> Maybe we could even squeeze a bit of automation out of this (bug filed on SRU versions, etc) to try to establish baselines for crap pMREs.
<infinity> s/bug/bugs/
<infinity> Bugs, crash reports, etc.
<infinity> Anyhow.
<infinity> I think we've got pretty much nothing else on our plate, so maybe we should just start and end the meeting and call it done. :P
<stgraber> #startmeeting Technical board meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 31 20:13:11 2014 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical board meeting | Current topic:
<stgraber> Nothing to discuss, see you in two weeks. Next chair, pitti.
<stgraber> #endmetting
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 31 20:13:30 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-31-20.13.moin.txt
<infinity> METTING.
<stgraber> yeah, typing is hard...
<doko> s/M/P/ ? what are you up for?
<infinity> I... Don't have a response to that.
<infinity> And, so, I shall leave the channel.
<doko> heh, I assume post-meeting business ;p
<slangasek> hum, sorry I'm late
<slangasek> it would have been good to have a discussion about the system-image topic, given that no one has taken it up on the mailing list
<mdeslaur> argh!
<mdeslaur> sorry I'm late
<slangasek> mdeslaur, stgraber, kees: given that we now have more people here than when infinity decided to cut'n'run on us, maybe we should reopen the meeting? ;)
<mdeslaur> I don't mind
<mdeslaur> although I'm not sure I have anything useful to contribute to the system-image topic at this stage
<mdeslaur> do we have any details or a plan on how we would achieve it?
<stgraber> slangasek: I don't mind, though I'm not sure how much I'd be able to contribute about this in a live meeting. Seems like the kind of thing where I'd need a few hours just to think things through and that e-mails are better suited for that.
<slangasek> that's certainly the biggest unknown
<slangasek> at this stage, we have no approach to system-image that doesn't involve being incompatible with apt-based installation of non-default packages
<slangasek> and "system-image+app store" is a major deviation for our desktop or server story
<stgraber> current state of things are that system-image is entirely unsuitable for desktop use, there are a few options we discussed a year or so ago but nobody did any work on exploring those so far
<slangasek> stgraber: well, as noted people don't seem to have actually made the time to do that few hours of thinking on the list ;)
<slangasek> fwiw I expect foundations will spend some time on this system-image-on-desktop question in the coming months
<slangasek> since we'll have the resources to cover package management in depth shortly :)
<stgraber> slangasek: sure and I'm feeling slightly bad about this because I meant to reply to this e-mail before this meeting and failed. I'm just not sure discussing it live is the way to go. It seems like we just need the TB members to find some time to think about it and reply on the list.
<slangasek> ok, then my suggestion is that people use the rest of the time blocked for this meeting to do so ;-)
<mdeslaur> is the ultimate goal to have two different desktop types, to replace apt-based installation of non-default packages, or to be able to support both images and apt-based packages?
<stgraber> I think the ultimate goal is part of what we need to discuss and define :)
<mdeslaur> ok :)
<slangasek> mdeslaur: I would say (and this is a bit of guesswork on my part, but I think it's a reasonable starting point for discussion) that the high-level goal is to bring the robustness of system-image updates to our desktop users
<slangasek> my personal position is that we shouldn't to sacrifice support for the wealth of packages in universe to get there
<stgraber> I'm also not convinced our users would appreciate having to reboot their system for every single update, technology evolves in the direction of longer uptime (checkpoint/restart, live patching, ...), requiring a full system reboot for even the smallest package update doesn't feel right...
<mdeslaur> and of course the most desirable outcome is also the most technically challenging one :)
<stgraber> anyway, there are quite a lot of things which seem fine currently with s-i for the phones that likely won't be for the desktop, so we may as well document those in the ML discussion then try and see what can be done about them (and which we really care about)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-01
<beisner> howdy
<smoser> o/
<hallyn> good $(timeofday) everyone,
<hallyn> one sec
<rharper> \o
<hallyn> all right i'll be your tour guide today (though don't seem to recall any mtg notes last week :)
<hallyn> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  1 16:01:40 2014 UTC.  The chair is hallyn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<hallyn> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<hallyn> gaughen to raise sessions of vUDS.
<hallyn> gaughen: ^ ?
<gaughen> hallyn, that is so 3 weeks ago
<hallyn> gaughen: someone should have updated that :-)
<hallyn> excelelnt, done,
<gaughen> who could that be?  ;-)
<hallyn> #topic T Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: T Development
<hallyn> who wants to take this?  jamespage?
<zul> i blame menudo
<jamespage> ok
<gaughen> zul don't go blaming ricky martin
<jamespage> soooo.....
 * hallyn makes a note to lsiten to some menudo on youtube
 * rharper runs away
<jamespage> we are now in final freeze - release team are reviewing all uploads to main components; universe still going through on auto BUT you still need FFe's for major bumps un function
<hallyn> wait, i thought final freeze was apr  8?
<hallyn> 9
<jamespage> sorry - not final freeze - just freeze
<jamespage> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<hallyn> ok :)
<hallyn> (phew)
<jamespage> quite a few bugs should close out today/tomorrow as the rc1 for icehouse goes through
<jamespage> we have one major bug for MAAS install off iso (well found beisner)
<jamespage> but I can't actually find the bug now
<jamespage> gah
<zul> then it doesnt exist then
<hallyn> bugcount--
<jamespage> bug 1298559
 * zul sticks his finger in his ears and goes lalalala
<ubottu> bug 1298559 in maas (Ubuntu) "Internal Server Error after installing MAAS from Trusty daily ISO" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298559
<jamespage> yikes!
<jamespage> anyway - roaksoax is on it
<beisner> fyi i'm running other server iso tests manually as we meet/speak/type.
<jamespage> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-servercloud-overview.html
<jamespage> beisner, ++
<jamespage> thanks
<beisner> welcome!
<jamespage> I appreciate everyone is real busy but sometime between now and release do take time to review your blueprints and update WI's
<jamespage> and think about what did not get done this cycle and need to be done next cycle
<jamespage> but other than that - find and fix bugs, test isos, deploy openstack, run clouds, test stuff and MAKE IT GREAT
<hallyn> q - if something is blocked past released, do we leave it 'blocked' or mark it 'postponed'?
<jamespage> hallyn, that's all
<jamespage> hallyn, I'd postpone it
<hallyn> (blocked is more informative but seems to count against us in the tally)
<hallyn> ok
<jamespage> I generally use POSTPONED when I write my next BP
<hallyn> thanks jamespage, moving on
<jamespage> as the catchup itsm
<hallyn> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> hallyn: nothing particular here this week
<hallyn> thanks, moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<psivaa> hallyn: nothing much to report this week except:
<psivaa> for information, lvm d-i installs are failing due to bug #1300072
<psivaa> and applogies for not informing about the holiday last week
<ubottu> bug 1300072 in parted (Ubuntu Trusty) "LVM installation fails - regression with parted 2.3-17" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300072
<hallyn> yikes
<beisner> psivaa, i just hit that on an iso install
<hallyn> was about to say beisner is sure to hit that :)
<hallyn> ok, any questions for psivaa ?
<hallyn> if not, moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Xen/xl and libvirt in T mostly working now. Some bits of polish missing (mainly a plan to be nice and allow migration of the xend managed domains to <something else>).
<hallyn> do you have any updates for libvirt source pkg planned?
<beisner> psivaa - workaround is F4 to minimal installation, then it proceeds.  :/
<smb> hallyn, loosely
<hallyn> (ok wem ight want to chat out of band to coordinate)
<psivaa> beisner: ack, was detected in manual installs and smoke. i think the release team is working on a fix. thx
<smb> hallyn, ok
<hallyn> any questions for smb?
<hallyn> ok thanks smb, moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing new to report. If there are no questions, I propose to drop this item from the agenda in future meetings, since this is usually an empty topic now.
<hallyn> any objections?
<zul> nope
<hallyn> #action Serge to drop the arm server item from agenda
<meetingology> ACTION: Serge to drop the arm server item from agenda
<hallyn> thanks, moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<hallyn> going once,
<hallyn> (i suspect with upcomgin release and subsequent sprint we don't have anything :)
<hallyn> so going twice,
<hallyn> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<hallyn> so if anyone who regularly uses qemu has not yet tested the 2.0 candidate, i'd suggest doing so soon,
<caribou> hallyn: anything particular to be attentive about ?
<caribou> hallyn: I'll take it for a spin
<hallyn> caribou: just makign sure everything still works for you,
<caribou> hallyn: ok, will check
<hallyn> thanks, bc i'm quite certin it'll be going on at this point,
<hallyn> so if there are regressions we haven't hit yet it'd be good to find them
<hallyn> there have been quite a few people testing, some bugs shaken out, so i think we're in good shape
<hallyn> ok, any other topics?
<hallyn> going once,
<hallyn> going twice,
<hallyn> then it only remains to
<hallyn> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<hallyn> That'll be Tuesday April 8, usual time, usual place,
<hallyn> with the illustrious rbasak chairing
<hallyn> thanks everyone
<hallyn> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  1 16:18:37 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-01-16.01.moin.txt
<ogasawara> #startmeeting
<ogasawara> ##
<ogasawara> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<ogasawara> ##
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  1 17:00:19 2014 UTC.  The chair is ogasawara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Trusty
<ogasawara> # Meeting Etiquette
<ogasawara> #
<ogasawara> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<ogasawara> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<ogasawara> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<ppisati> o/
<bjf> o/
<henrix> o/
<rtg> o/
<apw> o/
<smb> o/
<sforshee> o/
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Nothing new to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<ogasawara> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following
<ogasawara> link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || core-1311-kernel                      || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-cross-compilation           || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-hwe-plans                   || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || core-1311-kernel                      || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1403-hwe-stack-eol-notifications || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-1311-openstack-virt       || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The 3.13.0-21.43 Trusty kernel has been uploaded to the archive.  With
<ogasawara> kernel freeze about to go into effect this Thurs Apr 3, I do not
<ogasawara> anticipate another upload between now and then.  After kernel freeze,
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> all patches are subject to our Ubuntu SRU policy and only critical bug
<ogasawara> fixes will warrant an upload before release.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 03 - Kernel Freeze (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 17 - Ubuntu 14.04 Final Release (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
<ogasawara> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<ogasawara> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates -
<ogasawara> Saucy/Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates -
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Mar. 25):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Prep week
<bjf>   * Precise - Prep week
<bjf>   * Quantal - Prep week
<bjf>   *   Saucy - Prep week
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 30-Mar through 26-Apr
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          28-Mar   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 30-Mar - 05-Apr   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 06-Apr - 12-Apr   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf>          17-Apr   14.04 Released
<bjf> 13-Apr - 26-Apr   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized
<ogasawara> (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized
<ogasawara> Thanks everyone
<ogasawara> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  1 17:03:24 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-01-17.00.moin.txt
<Niles> They do realize they've scheduled the foundations team meeting and the translation team meeting for the same time on the same day, right?
<JanC> Niles: maybe time zone & summer time change got some things confused?
<JanC> (if the meeting agenda still uses Google Calendar, this is more than likely to happen...)
<Niles> Oh, good point.
<JanC> still, both teams might have to agree on fixing this  :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-03
<infinity> Oontz, oontz, oontz.
<infinity> \o
<infinity> o/
<infinity> \o/
 * mvo_ waves
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  3 15:02:00 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo)
<slangasek> xnox jodh doko barry stgraber mvo cjwatson infinity slangasek bdmurray caribou
<slangasek> and go!
<xnox> me first =) ok
<xnox> * chase up usb-creator patches, many bugfixes merged and uploaded
<xnox> * chase up flickerless boot requests from #Cert, turned out kernel and
<xnox>   apw fixed those (bug #1300247 and bug #1300244)
<xnox> * chase up xts/kernel SRU bug (d-i released, all is done)
<xnox> * finish up python3.3 dropage
<xnox> * drop u1, remaining task for trusty is thunderbird patch
<xnox> TODO
<ubottu> bug 1300247 in linux (Ubuntu Trusty) "pointless kvm disabled by bios message" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300247
<ubottu> bug 1300244 in linux (Ubuntu Trusty) "pointless nouveau messages printed on boot" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300244
<xnox> * android-x86 does not boot when compiled with my toolchain
<xnox> * upload plymouth
<xnox> ..
<xnox> and last week was out skiing.
<xnox> on a snowboard but that's minor details.
<slangasek> you should've taken your laptop with while snowboarding, it's nearly as ergonomic as working while chasing a deer with a spear
<infinity> jodh_: You're up, if your bouncing internet hasn't caught up with reality.
<jodh_> infinity: yeah, perfect timing... :) one sec...
<xnox> slangasek: noted. There actually was free wifi on most slopes (not black though, not sure why not)
<slangasek> hah
<jodh_> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items
<jodh_>   - cgroup support:
<jodh_>     - Updated cgroup branch to make use of new cgmanager
<jodh_>       API RemoveOnEmpty() (which simplifies the Upstart code significantly).
<jodh_>     - Now mostly working (currently debugging a re-exec issue).
<jodh_>     - Having a 1 day sprint tomorrow with xnox to work on the tests.
<jodh_> â
<infinity> jodh_: Say, do I get my session bug fixed? ;)
<jodh_> infinity: it's in the pile somewhere, but cgroups is the priority atm. You could try bending xnox/stgrabers ear though? :)
<infinity> Or I could just submit an MP to invert the option and the result and call it done.  Tempted.
<doko> - openjdk-6 and openjdk-7 updates, merges, icedtea-web pending
<doko> - finally libjogl2-java building, no more jvm crash on aarch64.
<doko> - gnat bootstrap for ppc64el
<doko> - various fixes to clean up -proposed
<doko> - arm64 and ppc64el build fixes
<doko> - built two scheme interpreters on arm64 and ppc64el
<doko> - prepare a final gcc-4.8 upload
<doko> (done)
<barry> phone: Python 3 gdebi: LP: #1283574 & LP: #1299169.  push notifications meeting.  autopilot py3 work and removal of py2 continuing.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1283574 in packagekit (Ubuntu) "packagekit-backend-aptcc pulls in python2" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1283574
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1299169 in Pyflakes "pyflakes3 ignores file encoding" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299169
<barry> debian/ubuntu: pyflakes 0.8-1 and 0.8.1-1 (LP: #1300366). debian bug 741832 (perplexing & still in progress).  python-pip 1.5.4-1 (LP: #1200389)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1300366 in pyflakes (Ubuntu) "[FFe] upgrade to pyflakes 0.8.1" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300366
<ubottu> Debian bug 741832 in src:flufl.i18n "flufl.i18n: FTBFS: error: /Â«PKGBUILDDIRÂ»/.pybuild/pythonX.Y_2.7/build/flufl/i18n/README.rst: No such file or directory" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/741832
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1200389 in Unity System Compositor "[enhancement] Shell should be able to affect input device probing" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1200389
<barry> working on "the ensurepip issue" for py34.  engaging upstream about pip install dist-packages, etc.  pycon starts next week.
<barry> done
<stgraber>  - Final beta
<stgraber>  - A ton of queue reviews, some FFes and a bit of patch piloting
<stgraber>  - Got logind to talk to cgmanager, now dealing with the bugs
<stgraber>  - Looking into a few network related bugs (mostly precise to trusty upgrades)
<jodh_> infinity: knock yourself out :)
<stgraber>  - Fixed a few issues with LXC's CI environment, usual code reviews, about to release 1.0.3.
<stgraber>  - Added adt tests to cgmanager.
<stgraber>  - Couple more bugfixes here and there.
<stgraber>  - Booking some more flights.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<mvo_> DONE:
<mvo_> apt: add "Debug::RunScripts", ignore SIGPIPE in RunScriptsWithPackage, merge apt-manpage branch, release 1.0, look into implementing SrcCacheDB, look into backport for https range-request bug #1157943 (failed), cherry pick fix #1157943
<mvo_> sponsoring: #1001376, review lp:~barry/update-manager/lp1295392/+merge/212065, #880493,
<mvo_> misc: try to reprocue #1069133, command-not-found data update, play with ubuntu-emulator, new unattended-upgrades for debian/ubuntu, click phonecall with tvoss
<ubottu> bug 1157943 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "apt-get update fails hash checks on https repositories when file size changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157943
<mvo_> release-upgrades: look into #1286161 and do fix
<mvo_> TODO:
<mvo_> * get my calendar under control so that I don't overlook meetings again
<mvo_> * implementing SrcCacheDB in apt-ftparchive
<mvo_> * familiarize myself with all the stuff that is new or changed (click, system-images, ...)
<mvo_> DONE
<bdmurray> mvo_: can you document how to update all of command-not-found data?
<cjwatson> Ported a few more packages to new architectures: mplayer2, lua-posix, meta-gnome3.
<cjwatson> Fixed regression in grub-installer/Kickstart (bug 1292628).
<ubottu> bug 1292628 in grub-installer (Ubuntu) "'grub-install --force "(hd0)"' fails on trusty during installation" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292628
<cjwatson> Finished packaging OpenSSH 6.6p1.
<cjwatson> Integrated parted patches from Phillip Susi and outstanding Ubuntu changes into Debian, and synced.  Fixed a resulting regression (bug 1300072).
<ubottu> bug 1300072 in parted (Ubuntu Trusty) "LVM installation fails - regression with parted 2.3-17" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300072
<cjwatson> Fixed some ppc64el problems in GRUB, plus Debian #735935, bug 1299041, and bug 1298399.
<ubottu> Debian bug 735935 in grub-common "grub2: LVM trouble at boot after upgrade to 2.02 beta" [Critical,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/735935
<cjwatson> Fixed a few more click bugs (bug 1298457, bug 1297519, and a build failure for backports).
<ubottu> bug 1299041 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub2-2.02 has wrong build-deps" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299041
<ubottu> bug 1298399 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub-efi-amd64 2.02~beta2-7 fails to install on raid/lvm" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298399
<cjwatson> Fixed up missing hardening features in schroot and moved it to main.
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1298457 could not be found
<ubottu> bug 1297519 in click (Ubuntu) "click utility crashes due to previously uninstalled app" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297519
<cjwatson> Finished packaging iprutils.
<cjwatson> ..
<cjwatson> mvo_: (most productive first three days eva)
<infinity> - Final beta released
<infinity> - +1, build fixes, etc
<infinity> - Hunted some fun glibc bugs upstream
<infinity> - Stuff, also things
<infinity> - Annoyed mvo
<cjwatson> fsvo "first"
<infinity> â­
<mvo_> bdmurray: yes, I hope I can prodive a stable download location so that its just a bzr-buildpackage to update the data in the future. but yes +100 for better documentation there!
<infinity> bdmurray: He's set it up cronned on nusakan right now, we might move it to a role account somewhere sane and make it vaguely self-documenting at that point.
<mvo_> cjwatson: I had a bit of a head-start :)
<barry> mvo_: a readme in the source package would be great :)
<xnox> mvo_: about command-not-found, the amd64 package should really also ship indexes for i386, since multiarch is enabled by default and some apps are i386 only e.g. "ubuntu-emulator" shall i file a separate bug about that?
<mvo_> barry: indeed, I will do that
<slangasek>  * off on Monday, so shorter week
<slangasek>  * various queue reviews for the final freeze
<slangasek>  * spending some time looking at the Qt gl/gles split for x86, to see if we can make this work
<slangasek>  * working with bdmurray, infinity, xnox on packaging of various new ppc64el-specific packages (lsvpd, libvpd, ppc64-diag)
<slangasek>  * UPCOMING:
<slangasek>   * interviewing for the Java role this week
<mvo_> xnox: good point, please do (but I also write it down now)
<slangasek>   * discussion with the TB about how archive-specific archives can/should be managed under the Ubuntu umbrella (UbuntuKylin)
<infinity> slangasek: "archive-specific archives"?
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> flavor-specific
<infinity> As in, they don't want to be in our archive anymore?
<infinity> This should be fun.
<xnox> mvo_: bug #1302011
<ubottu> bug 1302011 in command-not-found (Ubuntu) "amd64 data packages should include i386 indexes" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302011
<bdmurray> worked with webops to resolve issues with the daisy not accepting OOPSes and retracers failing
<bdmurray> updated errors.ubuntu.com to r463 (don't display derivatives or unknown distros on the front page count)
<bdmurray> updated daisy to use python-distro-info for determining the devel release of Ubuntu (r419)
<bdmurray> also updated error-tracker-dependencies to depend on python-distro-info
<bdmurray> updated cassandra tunnels code with prodstack host IPs for evan
<bdmurray> wrote a tool to query launchpad with outdated dbg sym log messages from the retracers to see if the packages are recent so we can create the ddebs
<infinity> mvo_: One could really argue that point for all arches.  I suspect the extra data for including all arches would be tiny, so maybe worth if it c-n-f said something like "for binary ppc-thing, install foo:powerpc or foo:ppc64el, it's not available on your current architecture"... Or, even more cleverly, only tell me about it if it's available on a foreign-arch I already have enabled.
<bdmurray> research into a failed armhf retrace for seb128
<slangasek> infinity: see your TB list mail; it's not that they don't want to be in our archive, but that they have "partner" apps that can't go in the /Canonical/ partner archive
<bdmurray> wrote a tool to check retracer log files to find out why a retrace failed
<bdmurray> SRU queue work with arges
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1294814
<ubottu> bug 1294814 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Trusty) "DistUpgradeApport.py launches apport-gtk" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294814
<bdmurray> wrote and uploaded an apport package hook for kerneloops
<bdmurray> research and testing of ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1298281
<bdmurray> apturl bug triage and reporting (LP: #1300465 and LP: #1300466)
<bdmurray> reported apport LP: #1300474 regarding tmpdir
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for libpng bug LP: #1298779
<bdmurray> testing upgrade bug 1286161
<ubottu> bug 1298281 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "prompt to restart services in text mode during an upgrade in graphic mode" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298281
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1300465 in python-apt (Ubuntu) "description dialog is empty" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300465
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1300466 in apturl (Ubuntu) "second installation request unusable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300466
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1300474 in apport (Ubuntu) "tmp directory cleanup fails" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300474
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1298779 in libpng (Debian) "C++11 incompatibility" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1298779
<bdmurray> â done
<ubottu> bug 1286161 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Trusty) "13.10 -> 14.04 upgrade failed: initramfs failed to ugprade, udev is not configured yet" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286161
<caribou> * Onboarding of new colleague Jorge Niedbalski
<caribou> * Worked on updating the Onboarding documentation
<caribou> * Completed pre-sponsor SRU work for bug #1293291 (enable btmp logging)
<caribou> * Tested new kexec-tools v2.0.6
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1293291 could not be found
<caribou> * sosreport development & SRU (bug #1296755)
<caribou> * Started investigation on bug #1157943 with mvo
<ubottu> bug 1296755 in sosreport (Ubuntu Saucy) "sosreport archive /var/lib/maas by default" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296755
<ubottu> bug 1157943 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "apt-get update fails hash checks on https repositories when file size changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157943
<xnox> infinity: mvo_: i guess we should ship data for all arches in an arch_all package, and simply do lookup across arches that are enabled e.g. (all, amd64, foreign)
<caribou> btmp logging is bug #743858
<ubottu> bug 743858 in openssh (Ubuntu Saucy) "sshd not appending to /var/log/btmp" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/743858
<caribou> done
<slangasek> infinity, stgraber: it's obviously not great timing in the release cycle for them to be raising this question, so it's understandable if the TB doesn't manage to sign off on it before release, but this is an important problem so please make this TB discussion a priority
<infinity> slangasek: Yeah, just caught up on the thread, I haven't read that folder for a few days.
<infinity> slangasek: Ick.
<stgraber> slangasek: yeah, I already replied to their proposal yesterday (though not particularly positively :))
<slangasek> stgraber: well, you replied saying "too late for 14.04" - I'm saying we should try our best to decide this for 14.04, even though the request is quite late :)
<slangasek> any questions re: status?
<caribou> I'm not sure it's the right place to ask, but one may show me where to ask :
<stgraber> slangasek: well, if we want to decide on this quickly, I'm fine sending a simple -1 now, but thought it may be worth seeing if they can come up with something slightly more reasonable that I may be convinced to approve.
<caribou> I'm member of BugControl so I can add task to series
<caribou> but I cannot approve them : who should I ask to be added to the proper team ?
<infinity> caribou: Me.
<infinity> caribou: What's your LP ID?
<caribou> infinity: so plleeeaase : louis-bouchard
<caribou> arges is tired of approving them for me
<caribou> infinity: thanks!
<slangasek> stgraber: heh - I would expect a more subtle engagement than just a -1.  AFAIK we have no clearly stated policy describing what flavors can or can't have enabled for user downloads, and I think the TB should really write up a policy grounded in principle
<infinity> caribou: You're welcome.
<caribou> that's all I had
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else for today?
<infinity> Naps.
<barry> green tea
<mvo_> !!!
<infinity> Unicycle hockey?
<mvo_> green tea!
<mvo_> infinity: not today :)
<stgraber> slangasek: I believe we actually have documentation on that somewhere back when we introduced extras.ubuntu.com. One of those pages is the extension repository documentation but it's not particularly clear, I vaguely remember there being some other page which more clearly states what flavors can use.
<xnox> icecream truck arrived \o/
<slangasek> stgraber: if you could find that page and bring it to the discussion, I think that would be very useful
<infinity> slangasek: cf: my discussions last night about Canonical UNIX user groups and being paranoid about exposure of a few accounts on ftpmaster and cdimage, I'm really not comfy with flavours defaulting to near-impossible-to-audit external archives of potential doom.  So, we need both some policy and some better descriptions of what they plan, and what they could compromise on once that plan is deemed nutty.
<slangasek> infinity: righto.  Let's not discuss here with a captive audience though, let's please take it to the list
<infinity> xnox: And thanks, now I want a nap *and* ice cream.  This could get messy.
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  3 15:26:43 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-03-15.02.moin.txt
<jodh_> thanks!
<slangasek> thanks :)
<mvo_> thanks!
<caribou> thanks
<stgraber> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<cjwatson> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExtensionRepositoryPolicy
<cjwatson> as stgraber says, it's a bit vague
<slangasek> cjwatson: ta
<cjwatson> but it was intended for this kind of thing
<Laney> stgraber: Maybe you're thinking of what the old trademark policy said
<Laney> https://web.archive.org/web/20130517062713/http://www.ubuntu.com/trademark-policy
<Laney> Mainly links to the extension repository policy, but does say a little bit more about what remixes can do
<Laney> Don't know how relevant the â¢ policy would be to Kylin though
<stgraber> Laney: ah yeah, I believe that's what Allison wrote back then, that must be it
<Laney> Yes, I helped draft it ;-)
<Laney> But as I say, I doubt it helps you with precedent here
<pleia2> o/
<pleia2> #startmeeting Community Council
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  3 16:59:47 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic:
<pleia2> #chair mhall119 elfy
<meetingology> Current chairs: elfy mhall119 pleia2
 * mhall119 is here
 * elfy is too
<pleia2> today on the schedule we have quick check-ins with the Doc team and QA team, we'll wait a couple minutes to see if more CC folks drift in
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mhall119> cprofitt: meeting time
<mhall119> I know dholbach wasn't going to be here, and czajkowski is setting up for an event so may not be
<GunnarHj> o/
<belkinsa> o/ and I'm for the Doc Team.  GunnarHj is too.
<pleia2> alright, let's get rolling
<pleia2> #topic Doc team check-in
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic: Doc team check-in
<dholbach> yep, back again
<pleia2> hello Doc team friends! how are things going this cycle?
<dholbach> sorry for being a bit late
<GunnarHj> We have been missing a driver for the desktop guide.
 * pleia2 switches hats
<dholbach> hello GunnarHj :)
<pleia2> I've tried to help nudge things along by helping with writing calls, but having more folks willing to push Desktop stuff forward would really help
<GunnarHj> dholbach: Hi
<dholbach> a driver being somebody who's aware of the bug situation, reviews merge proposals and things like that?
<mhall119> pleia2: GunnarHj: is it particularly difficult or otherwise putting people of from trying to do it?
<pleia2> the getting involved docs have improved a lot, recruitment itself is just down
<GunnarHj> Fixing bugs and handling MPs works.
<GunnarHj> But keeping up to date with news and taking responsibility for the docs update has not worked well.
<mhall119> how are the current contributors being promoted/praised for their work?
<pleia2> we also have the typical problem of FFes hitting us hard, Ubuntu One is the big nusiance this time - thanks to GunnarHj for being on top of that
<pleia2> I wish they could have told us a month ago :)
<belkinsa> Agreed.
<dholbach> oh yeah, I can imagine :-/
<GunnarHj> mhall119: I'm biased, but I think we show that they are welcome and that their work is appreciated.
<mhall119> GunnarHj: I was thinking more externally and publicly
<dholbach> are reviews of the docs and/or updates of the TODO list something which is discussed in regular meetings?
<pleia2> I think what we really need is a Desktop Champion, who herds cats and makes sure we're on top of calls for Doc review and things
<mhall119> it might help recruitment if others see the current contributors getting that kind of recognition
<elfy> so - it's mostly recruitment and 'it's cycle end' issues again?
<GunnarHj> pleia2: Right, Desktop champion, driver or whatever...
<pleia2> elfy: yeah, but technical process wise I think we've got packaging and translations stuff down, finally :)
<elfy> I think recruitment is not easy for anyone that I've had much to do with lately to be honest
 * elfy has a bucket full of his own like that
<mhall119> docs are typically a challenge for recruiting, in my experience
<mhall119> for any project
<elfy> mhall119: yep agreed
<GunnarHj> I also think we should ask ourselves if it's motivated to maintain both the desktop guide and the Ubuntu manual separately, considering that we are short of contributors. But that should better be discussed among the docs people first, I suppose.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> we did have a successful Doc Day where we intermingled Doc and Manual sessions, that was nice :)
<belkinsa> I agree there.  Maybe another meeting might be needed in the near time.
<pleia2> everyone does seem willing to work together
<pleia2> dholbach: we haven't really had regular meetings
<dholbach> pleia2, do you think having regular doc days would help?
<pleia2> dholbach: I don't know, they're a lot of work to put on
<pleia2> it didn't really seem to increase contributors either :\
<belkinsa> And maybe Global Jams early the cycle?
<dholbach> pleia2, in terms of organising the todo list?
<pleia2> dholbach: to get terms right, doc days were a user-facing thing in Classroom; meetings are internal team things
<pleia2> I think regular meetings would be useful
<GunnarHj> pleia2: Agree.
<belkinsa> Once a month?  As in those?
<pleia2> I organized a couple during the cycle, but I have too much on my plate and didn't do a great job of it :)
<elfy> I rarely see anything about docs - unless I actually go digging - doesn't appear to be much publically happening
<dholbach> pleia2, would it help to set up a schedule with assigned chair for the meetings?
<elfy> on planet for instance
<pleia2> elfy: yeah, pretty sure my post from February is the only one recently
<elfy> mmm - that would help raise awareness
<pleia2> anyway, aside from the standard kind of recruitment issues, I think things are going well compared to where we were a year ago
<GunnarHj> I think that regular meetings would be valuable to start with.
<pleia2> the team is much more open, we do have new contributors
<belkinsa> Agreed.  I could help organize them.
<pleia2> belkinsa: thanks!
<dholbach> awesome :-D
<belkinsa> Not a problem and I think at least three per cycle is the idea i have in mind.
<elfy> I'd say that maybe blogging and getting it on Planet would help
<dholbach> do you think it'd help to have a standing agenda item in desktop team's meetings about docs?
<pleia2> elfy: yeah
<pleia2> dholbach: yes, we've really struggled to get anyone from teams to talk to us
<elfy> so could we help with that?
<GunnarHj> elfy: Maybe.
<pleia2> rickspencer offered to help at the last vUDS, but it was too late in the cycle (I'll reach out to him again in a few months)
<GunnarHj> In the long run I think that contacts with the desktop team and others ought to be responsibilty of 'the Champion'
<dholbach> pleia2, maybe it'd help to raise it with seb128/jasoncwarner so they add it to their meeting agendas and note down things which might be of interest for the docs team?
<pleia2> dholbach: yeah, that'd be great
<belkinsa> A thought (before I lose it): you think using Trello, the to do list, help the doc team?
<elfy> do you use it now belkinsa ?
<belkinsa> No.
<elfy> personally I use it for xubuntu qa and found it very useful
<elfy> it's not a public one - but all the qa team have access to it
<belkinsa> Yeah, that's my idea is to have a team only one.
<elfy> belkinsa: I'd certainly try it
<belkinsa> Because I think the meeting bot action items (blueprints) don't help that well.
<belkinsa> I will.
<dholbach> Are there any other things in the project you'd like to improve?
<dholbach> Or are there things which went really well this cycle?
<belkinsa> Cleaning up the wiki was a failure.  I tried to organize a jam but I lost tack of time and forgot the jam is this weekend.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: But the wiki is not tied to cycles, so it's just keep going with it.
<belkinsa> GunnarHj, right.  Duh.
<GunnarHj> ;)
<GunnarHj> dsmythies does a great job behind the scenes to make things work technically.
<GunnarHj> Both with the desktop guide and the server guide.
<dholbach> cleaning the wiki would make jcastro happy :)
<pleia2> belkinsa: I wouldn't say it was a failure :) a lot of work got done, we added more admins and brought in the PopularPages team who've been doing a lot
<pleia2> dholbach: this is help.ubuntu.com, not wiki.o.o
<belkinsa> pleia2, I guess you are right.  A lot of work was done.
<dholbach> still he'd be happy :-)
<GunnarHj> dholbach: What more exactly is it he is after?
<GunnarHj> dholbach: Mass deletion of outdated pages?
<czajkowski> aloha
<belkinsa> Hey there, czajkowski.
<elfy> hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> sorry for being late at another event
<GunnarHj> dholbach: The general problem with the wiki is that the docs team members usually don't have the expertise needed to dig into the contents.
<dholbach> GunnarHj, yes - he gave a lightning talk at a UDS some years ago in which he got very passionate about removing outdated/misleading information :)
<dholbach> GunnarHj, I can imagine - it'd probably need to be in conjunction with members of other teams
<belkinsa> GunnarHj, I agree and the only way is to have is a Global Jam.
<belkinsa> Or that.
<pleia2> thanks for coming GunnarHj and belkinsa :)
<GunnarHj> Whichever method, it needs to be organized somehow. So regular meetings may help also there.
<belkinsa> Not a problem.
 * belkinsa nods
<pleia2> anyone here from the QA team?
<GunnarHj> np
<elfy> thanks for coming along belkinsa GunnarHj
<dholbach> thanks a lot, and thanks for your tireless work!
<pleia2> balloons: about?
 * elfy prepares sharp needle ... 
<dholbach> :-)
<pleia2> no one responded when we told them about the meeting, so I'm not holding my breath
<belkinsa> Your welcome and thank you for this check-in meeting.
<pleia2> we can move on to AoB and see if anyone shows up in the meantime
<czajkowski> thank belkinsa GunnarHj for coming
<pleia2> #topic Any other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Meeting | Current topic: Any other Business
<elfy> pleia2: tbh - I don't even know who the QA team is ...
<pleia2> elfy: I had hoped it would be *bigger* now that QA and Bug folks were working together so closely
<belkinsa> I have a question.  What teams are required to go through this check-in?
<czajkowski> belkinsa: any of the elected coucils we over see
<czajkowski> and then ones we'e  had request for a catch up
<czajkowski> *we've
<belkinsa> Okay, thank you.
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda#Team_catch-up has the current list
<dholbach> belkinsa, we started out with our governance boards, then added the flavour teams and then some additional teams: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda hast a list
<pleia2> anyone have anything else?
<dholbach> I'm all set
<pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  3 17:39:18 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-03-16.59.moin.txt
<elfy> thanks everyone
<belkinsa> Not a problem, thanks for the meeting.
<czajkowski> thank you
<czajkowski> pleia2: thank you
<dholbach> thanks a lot everyone
<iulian> cjohnston: How many are we?
<iulian> OK, we need one more board member.
<iulian> #startmeeting 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  3 21:36:08 2014 UTC.  The chair is iulian. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<iulian> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 2200 UTC meeting for April 3, 2014.
<iulian> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<iulian> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<iulian> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<iulian> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<iulian> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<cjohnston> iulian: lets wait another 20 minutes :-)
<mihir> Hi
<iulian> Whoops.
<mihir> Mihir
<iulian> Hi there mihir. Apparently I got confused with the time. The meeting should start 20 minutes.
<iulian> But if everyone's here, then I wouldn't mind to start earlier. :-)
<iulian> RoozbehShafiee: Here?
<RoozbehShafiee> Im here too
<iulian> thomi: Here?
<RoozbehShafiee> iulian: yes
<thomi> iulian: yes
<mihir> iulian, okay
<iulian> cjohnston, Pendulum, hggdh: Do you guys mind if we start earlier? Everyone is present so I believe just waiting for another 20 minutes isn't going to make much of a difference.
<cjohnston> iulian: we should give the candidates time to gather any supporters that they may have had coming to the meeting to support them
<iulian> RoozbehShafiee, thomi, mihir: Would you like to start the meeting earlier? Are you guys ready?
<iulian> Ah, right, sure.
<mihir> iulian, yeah
<RoozbehShafiee> iulian: yes Im ready :)
<thomi> I'm happy either way
<mihir> iulian, ?
<iulian> We are just waiting for someone to reply.
<mihir> iulian, okay.
<hggdh> iulian: go for it
<iulian> Okey dokey.
<iulian> #voters hggdh cjohnston Pendulum iulian
<meetingology> Current voters: Pendulum cjohnston hggdh iulian
<iulian> #subtopic RoozbehShafiee
<iulian> RoozbehShafiee: You're up first. Could you please introduce yourself?
<RoozbehShafiee> iulian: yes sure
<RoozbehShafiee> iulian: Im Roozbeh Shafiee 27 years old
<RoozbehShafiee> iulian: linux user since 2003
<RoozbehShafiee> Im from IRAN-Tehran
<RoozbehShafiee> a member of ubuntu iran loco team
<RoozbehShafiee> also ubuntu.ir forum moderator
<RoozbehShafiee> my job is virtualization architect and systems administrator in a telecommunication company
<iulian> RoozbehShafiee: Thank you. I see that you have been a member of the Iran LoCo team since 2009. What is your role within the team?
<RoozbehShafiee> my role is forum moderator in this team
<RoozbehShafiee> and some of coordinations ubuntu iran in isfahan city are with me
<cjohnston> RoozbehShafiee: it looks like most of your activities you listed are from 2009, 2010... what have you done more recently?
<RoozbehShafiee> also in past I worked some of artworks for web site
<RoozbehShafiee> recently we had an ubuntu conference in May 2013
<RoozbehShafiee> in Tehran University
<Pendulum> RoozbehShafiee: Do you have a link to your profile on the Ubuntu Iran forums?
<RoozbehShafiee> I have some coordination in this event
<RoozbehShafiee> Pendulum: yes
<cjohnston> RoozbehShafiee: do you have anyone here to support you?
<Pendulum> RoozbehShafiee: Can you please give us the link to your forum profile?
<iulian> #voters PabloRubianes
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes Pendulum cjohnston hggdh iulian
<RoozbehShafiee> Pendulum: my profile: http://forum.ubuntu.ir/index.php?action=profile;u=1706
<RoozbehShafiee> cjohnston: yes but they are not in channel right now
<RoozbehShafiee> cjohnston: daniel holbach is one of my ubuntuish friend
<RoozbehShafiee> cjohnston: I visit him 3 years ago in IRAN
<RoozbehShafiee> cjohnston: also Mehdi Hassanpour
<RoozbehShafiee> cjohnston: the Iran ubuntu team coordinator
<cjohnston> RoozbehShafiee: I noticed that you have no testimonials... we normally use testimonials as a way of getting to know the candidate and their contributions
<RoozbehShafiee> cjohnston: well...
<RoozbehShafiee> cjohnston: I emailed to Daniel and Mehdi
<RoozbehShafiee> cjohnston: but for persian new year Mehdi didnt answer me
<RoozbehShafiee> unfortunately
<iulian> Any more questions for RoozbehShafiee?
<RoozbehShafiee> cjohnston: also it seems Daniel was not accessible
<hggdh> RoozbehShafiee: so, the lack of visible *recent*, sustained contributions to Ubuntu, and lack of testimonials, make our task much more difficult
<iulian> OK, if there are no more questions, then I believe it's time to vote.
<iulian> #vote RoozbehShafiee to obtain Ubuntu membership.
<meetingology> Please vote on: RoozbehShafiee to obtain Ubuntu membership.
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<cjohnston> +0 I'm not able to see much in the way of recent work, nor are there any testimonials to help support you
<meetingology> +0 I'm not able to see much in the way of recent work, nor are there any testimonials to help support you received from cjohnston
<PabloRubianes> -1 please re done your wiki with more helpful info for us and come back
<meetingology> -1 please re done your wiki with more helpful info for us and come back received from PabloRubianes
<hggdh> -1 I do not see current Ubuntu contributions (the forum at ir needs registering), and no testimonials
<meetingology> -1 I do not see current Ubuntu contributions (the forum at ir needs registering), and no testimonials received from hggdh
<iulian> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from iulian
<Pendulum> -1 Please come back with testimonials and more information about current work.
<meetingology> -1 Please come back with testimonials and more information about current work. received from Pendulum
<iulian> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: RoozbehShafiee to obtain Ubuntu membership.
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:4 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion denied
<iulian> RoozbehShafiee: Unfortunately, you have been unsuccessful this time. Please do keep up the good work that you are doing with the LoCo team. We are looking forward to reading your application next time you apply. We suggest that you re-apply in a few months. Also please talk to your friends and get some testimonials as they are really useful.
<Pendulum> RoozbehShafiee: I agree with iulian. It looks like you've done good work, it's just not possible for us to really see what it is.
<iulian> thomi: I believe you're up next. The stage is all yours.
<RoozbehShafiee> iulian Pendulum: ok guys , no problem
<thomi> cool
<thomi> so, I'm Thomi Richards, my wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThomiRichards - I currently reside in Dunedin, New Zealand
<thomi> The wiki page contains most of the information you probably care about. To summarise...
<thomi> I'm the principle author of Autopilot, which we use in our Ubuntu Touch & Desktop acceptance test suites. This is what I spend 90% of my day-to-day hacking time on.
<RoozbehShafiee> Pendulum: maybe because I completed my wiki page in 4 days ago, I had not much time to find testimonials
<thomi> I'm passionate about improving the quality of Ubuntu releases, and autopilot is one way I can do that. Right now we have dozens of high-profile projects using autopilot for their acceptance tests, and more coming online all the time.
<thomi> I'm also a consumate hacker, I have code in dozens of Ubuntu packages and open source projects (to name a few: Ogre3D, crystalspace, blender3d, testtools, etc).
<cjohnston> wait.. theres going to be more? :-/
<thomi> In my spare time I advocate for Linux, open source, and Ubuntu in my local community. I've spoken at conferences (Kiwi PyCon mostly) representing Ubuntu (can link to video if anyone wants).
<iulian> :-)
<thomi> I was involved in helping organise Linux.conf.au waaaay back in 2006, where Mark Shuttleworth was a keynote speaker, talking about launchpad.
<thomi> I work for Canonical, but have been using Linux for about 15 years now, and using Ubuntu since the good old days of Warty Warthog. I'm sure that if I ever stopped working for Canonical I'd still participate in Ubuntu.
<thomi> Apart from all that, I'm 'thomir' almost everywhere on the Internet - I think my launchpad, github, ohloh, etc profiles speak for themselves.
<thomi> </introduction>
<cjohnston> Any questions for thomi ?
<iulian> None from me.
<popey> ooh
<thomi> oh, there are some testamonials on my wiki page as well
<popey> +1 from me
<hggdh> none from me.
<PabloRubianes> not for me
<cjohnston> who woke up popey :-P
<PabloRubianes> none*
<hggdh> uhu, do I see popey crashing the party?
<thomi> hi popey o/
<popey> Didn't know thomi was up for membership!
<hggdh> :-)
<iulian> :-)
<popey> thomi has bee instrumental in creating the quality of Ubuntu for some time.
<cjohnston> popey had any good bacon and syrup recently :-)
<popey> shush
<hggdh> I have no questions for thomi, except why took him so long to apply...
<popey> that too â»
<iulian> #vote thomi to obtain Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: thomi to obtain Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<thomi> umm... I was.. busy?
<iulian> +1
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<hggdh> +1 finally!
<meetingology> +1 finally! received from hggdh
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<iulian> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: thomi to obtain Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cjohnston> hggdh: noone wrote it as an autopilot test
<hggdh> cjohnston: ah, that's a thomi failure there!
<PabloRubianes> congrats thomi
<cjohnston> hehe
<thomi> cheers!
<hggdh> thomi: welcome :-)
<popey> \o/
<iulian> thomi: Welcome aboard.
<iulian> mihir: You're up next. Fire away!
<popey> Well done thomi
<Pendulum> thomi: Welcome and congrats!
<mihir> Hi , My name is Mihir Soni
<mihir> i started contribute for Ubuntu touch core applications project.
<mihir> Initially I have been involved in Ubuntu touch core application as a contributor and then as core team developer for Calculator. After making successful progress in calculator I have been moved to Calendar app and started contributing there.
<mihir> My work includes creating new functional ties and resolving bugs and maintain bug trackers for calendar & calculator.
<mihir> Currently focusing on making calendar application stable and more functional.
<mihir> i have been using Ubuntu since 2006
<mihir> My wiki page :- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mihirsoni-123
<mihir> Launchpad profile :- https://launchpad.net/~mihirsoni-123
<mihir> I am mostly working for core apps projects for ubuntu touch.
<popey> I'm actually here to cheer for mihir.
<popey> I'd back mihir for membership based on his valuable contributions.
<popey> He's been a reliable and consistent contributor to the core apps project on Ubuntu for phones.
<popey> He's been prompt, attentive and friendly with his code reviews, irc meetings, mails and hangouts and has been forthcoming with well thought out opinions and technical conributions.
<popey> (much as I love thomi) :D
<mihir> popey, thank you.
<popey> np
<iulian> Great, thanks popey.
<iulian> Any questions for mihir?
<PabloRubianes> mihir, do you do any LoCo work related?
<mihir> PabloRubianes, not much , but i am trying to be involved here in my loco team.
<mihir> well it is not much active here
<PabloRubianes> ok, mihir giving app development school could help activate the LoCo ;-)
<mihir> PabloRubianes, sure !!!
<mihir> PabloRubianes, i'll try to initiate
<iulian> OK, thanks mihir.
<iulian> #vote mihir to obtain Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: mihir to obtain Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<hggdh> +1 good work
<meetingology> +1 good work received from hggdh
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<popey> \o/
<Pendulum> +1 good work
<meetingology> +1 good work received from Pendulum
<hggdh> popey: life is good, I see ;-)
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<iulian> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: mihir to obtain Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<iulian> Welcome aboard, mihir.
<popey> Thanks membership board!
<mihir> iulian, thanks a lot :)
<hggdh> mihir: welcome in, and thank you for your work
<popey> congratulations mihir
<iulian> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  3 22:22:30 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-03-21.36.moin.txt
<mihir> popey,  thanks a lot.
<popey> np, well deserved
<iulian> Bed time for me, nighty night.
<popey> keep up the great work
<PabloRubianes> congrats mihir keep the good work and if you need some help in the LoCo counicl we can give you a hand with the loco activvation
<cjohnston> popey, you should go get some bacon and syrup
<popey> hah
<cjohnston> congrats thomi and mihir
<pleia2> oh hey, while I have you here - can the membership team send a list of folks they've approved lately to the ubuntu-news-team list?
<mihir> PabloRubianes, sure I'll ping your or email you for that.
<PabloRubianes> mihir, sure
<pleia2> we haven't gotten an email in a while, just a list is fine so we can include them in the weekly newsletter :)
<mihir> PabloRubianes, thank you :)
<RoozbehShafiee> iulian: can I apply for membership in 16th April ?
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-04
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-06
<s-fox> Hello elfy
<elfy> hi
<s-fox> Hello coffeecat
<s-fox> So shall we start?
<s-fox> elfy:  howefield coffeecat
<howefield> sounds good
<coffeecat> o/
<elfy> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Apr  6 20:01:14 2014 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<elfy> #chair coffeecat elfy howefield s-fox
<meetingology> Current chairs: coffeecat elfy howefield s-fox
<elfy> agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<elfy> and is short :)
<elfy> #topic Moderator Polling
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Moderator Polling
<elfy> so a quick update of where we are
<coffeecat> Meetingology seems to think there are 4 chairs. Just thought I'd let you know. ;-)
<meetingology> coffeecat: Error: "seems" is not a valid command.
<elfy> we have 2 nominations from people other than the Forum Council
<elfy> we have 4 nominations from us
<elfy> so the question is - do we carry on knowing that 4 of the 6 are people that we nominated - or do we put this down to us not letting enough people know
<elfy> EVEN if we did let those who could actually vote and nominate know
<elfy> I note that not 1 nomination came from anyone on the current moderation team
<elfy> update updated :)
<elfy> comments from the rest of us please :)
<howefield> my feeling is that we have enough candidates for a ballot, so would be good to continue the process.
<howefield> I acknowledge that the lack of self nominated candidate is not a great place to be though.
<s-fox> I think the situation is not ideal but I have faith in the names in front of us
<howefield> yep, me too
<coffeecat> On the one hand it would be good to have a ballot if only to see how many members actually bothered to vote.  On the other we have 6 names we are happy with and if we are happy to appoint six, then the vote becomes a bit pointless.
<elfy> my issue is
<elfy> if we had 6 people that were nominated by Forum Members then that would be great
<elfy> we are in a position where not only would we be happy with the 2 that were nominated by other than us
<elfy> we would also be happy with the 4 that we had to nominate
<elfy> at that point we're running a rigged ballot
<elfy> in so many words
<howefield> the process ensures that the FC are happy with all candidates put forward.
<s-fox> o/
<elfy> I'd prefer us to learn from this - while we only have a cetain group of people who can vote - there's nothing to stop us letting the WHOLE forum know
<elfy> I think we mucked up there
<elfy> s-fox: go
<s-fox> Rigged, possibly but no different to how we've worked before behind closed doors. This was a spectacular failure but we should learn from it.
<elfy> yes - same as before, possibly we should have included the whole forum in the 'knowing' at least
<howefield> that would be reasonable, imho.
<s-fox> Perhaps the whole forum to vote, but only candidates be the ubuntu forum members
<elfy> s-fox: not sure about that
<elfy> not sure we can poll on the forum and only let people vote the once
<s-fox> Hello Iowan
<elfy> #chair Iowan
<meetingology> Current chairs: Iowan coffeecat elfy howefield s-fox
<coffeecat> all 5 of us appear to be chair. Shouldn't the comand be vote?
<elfy> coffeecat: doesn't matter I think
<elfy> and when there's a vote I'll do that
<coffeecat> ok - never seen a m e etiunglology tab before.
<elfy> how safe would a forum wide poll be?
<elfy> coffeecat: meetingology has changed lately
<elfy> I'm not sure that I would be happy with a poll forum wide to be honest - one of the points of forum membership was they would get a say
<howefield> we need to get past the issue of securing sufficent candidates before worrying about voting :)
<coffeecat> forum wide poll *should* be safe. If we ever got to the point of having one, we could investigate if there was a really weird result for one person.
<elfy> even if it does look like they aren't interested
<elfy> howefield: agreed
<elfy> Iowan: you caught up on the logs ?
<Iowan> not quite...
<elfy> the way I see it for now is we vote on
<elfy> 1 - carry on with a poll with the names we have given the cons of where we are
<elfy> 2 - go back to the old way this time and advertise the whole polling issue more widely next time
<elfy> just wait for Iowan to catch up and comment
<Iowan> I think I have the gist...
<elfy> ok
<Iowan> Dunno that I have a lot to comment.
<elfy> ok
<Iowan> Turnout was underwhelming...
<elfy> s-fox coffeecat howefield Iowan - happy to vote ?
<Iowan> OK
<howefield> sure - go ahead, thanks.
<coffeecat> yep
<elfy> #voters elfy howefield s-fox coffeecat Iowan
<meetingology> Current voters: Iowan coffeecat elfy howefield s-fox
<elfy> #vote Complete poll with the nominees we have currently
<meetingology> Please vote on: Complete poll with the nominees we have currently
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<howefield> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from howefield
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<coffeecat> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from coffeecat
<s-fox> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from s-fox
<elfy> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from elfy
<elfy> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Complete poll with the nominees we have currently
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:3 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<s-fox> It just doesn't feel right
<howefield> problem is, it doesn't feel right either way :(
<elfy> #vote Complete this round using the previous method, and look at increasing the advertising in 6 months time
<meetingology> Please vote on: Complete this round using the previous method, and look at increasing the advertising in 6 months time
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<howefield> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from howefield
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<elfy> howefield: yea I agree
<Iowan> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Iowan
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<elfy> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Complete this round using the previous method, and look at increasing the advertising in 6 months time
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<elfy> ok - thanks for that bit then
<elfy> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<elfy> Anyone got anything else they want to talk to us about?
<Iowan> AOB?
<elfy> or indeed anyone of us want to talk about anything else :)
<elfy> any other business
<Iowan> Tnx
<s-fox> The CSS thing is still waiting on IS input
<elfy> s-fox: there is a ticket for it isn't there?
<s-fox> Yes
<elfy> anyone up for taking an action to contact them?
<s-fox> I'll prod in the morning
<elfy> ok
<elfy> #action s-fox to contact Canonical IS re mobile theme
<meetingology> ACTION: s-fox to contact Canonical IS re mobile theme
<elfy> anything else from anyone?
<howefield> not from me, thanks.
<Iowan> NAda
<coffeecat> not here
<s-fox> Nothing else.
<elfy> #topic Team Report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Team Report
<elfy> who did that last time - was you I think s-fox ?
<s-fox> Yes
 * elfy thinks the new boy should do that at least once, just like I did it at least once :p
<howefield> I should, not having done it yet.
<elfy> #action howefield Team Report
<meetingology> ACTION: howefield Team Report
<howefield> :)
<elfy> there are no votable Membership Applications at the moment
<elfy> and the team report is now the only rotating thing we do now I believe
<elfy> am I right?
<howefield> indeed :)
<Iowan> AFAIK, yes
<elfy> #topic Next Meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Next Meeting
<elfy> the calendar show's 2 for May - there appears to be one for 19:00UTC - I think that was my mistake I'll contact them to do that
<s-fox> We should change the time for the Americans / Canadians
<elfy> #action elfy Clean up the Calendar
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy Clean up the Calendar
<howefield> that's a UK Bank Holiday weekend, is that an issue ?
<elfy> s-fox: I asked in Admins thread
<Iowan> This American is OK with anythiing after noon (locally)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I think that cariboo907 is generally ok as well
<elfy> lets talk about that amongst ourselves during the week then I'll deal with the calendar then
<elfy> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<s-fox> +1
<elfy> #action FC to discuss meeting times for next 6 months
<meetingology> ACTION: FC to discuss meeting times for next 6 months
<elfy> as they will be the summer time ones
<elfy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Apr  6 20:40:13 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-06-20.01.moin.txt
<elfy> thanks everyone :)
<coffeecat> thanks elfy
<s-fox> Thanks elfy
<s-fox> :)
<elfy> s-fox: just so long as you're not all full of cold next time ...
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-03-30
<JHOSMAN> Hello mhall119  =)
<mhall119> hey JHOSMAN
<mhall119> I got your ping the other day, and your email
<JHOSMAN> mhall119:  Hello, not if you reviewed your email about an issue that you have notified two months ago.
<mhall119> JHOSMAN: what we need from you still is a detailed break-down of what that money would be spent on, so how many shirts, the cost per shirt, how much food, the cost of the food, etc
<JHOSMAN> Sponsorchip for FlisolBogota
<JHOSMAN> mhall119: When I could give you this information?
<mhall119> JHOSMAN: you can email it to us all, since you've already made a request through the form
<JHOSMAN> mhall119: ok! =)
<JHOSMAN> mhall119: It is possible that you can give a table of values and quantities of everything?
<mhall119> JHOSMAN: if I can give it?
<JHOSMAN> mhall119:
<JHOSMAN> Yes, but would have to organize this document in a spreadsheet.
<mhall119> JHOSMAN: we need you to provide this data, we don't know the costs for your shirts and meals
<JHOSMAN> mhall119: I take care of a person to perform this task.
<mhall119> thanks JHOSMAN
<tyhicks> hello
<chrisccoulson> yo
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 30 16:32:16 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: would you mind going and then we'll swing back around to jdstrand?
<mdeslaur> sure!
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> and tomorrow I have patch piloting duties
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on tiff and gnupg/libgcrypt updates
<mdeslaur> and I'll continue down the list, as usual
<mdeslaur> that's pretty much it, sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I'm on bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I'm finishing up testing apparmor for an upload to vivid today or tomorrow
<sbeattie> I have some upstream patches to review
<sbeattie> I also still have gcc testing on my plate
<sbeattie> that's the prioroities for me this week.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up.
<tyhicks> I'm on cve triage this week
<tyhicks> I focused heavily on landing the libapparmor policy cache API changes into upstream apparmor last week
<tyhicks> there are a few pending improvements/fixups needed but all of those patches are out on the list except for one
<tyhicks> I'm still working on what would be the best approach
<tyhicks> as for the other work I plan to do this week...
<tyhicks> Review the initial snappy launcher code
<tyhicks> Restart work on AppArmor kernel keyring mediation for user data encryption
<tyhicks> Finish up the patches to fix bug #1430532 and send them out for review
<ubottu> bug 1430532 in AppArmor "libapparmor needs a public function to break a context into a label and mode" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430532
<tyhicks> and either sarnold or myself need to pick up the python-cryptography MIR (LP: #1430082) this week
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1430082 in python-cryptography (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-cryptography, python-cffi, pycparser, enum34" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430082
<tyhicks> we'll discuss that later
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> so I have a lot of catching up to do this week, I have all too much email to dig (who am I kidding, skim) through, several patches to review, kernel workflow to catchup on and then back to working on apparmor cleanups
<sarnold> "undo last week" :)
<tyhicks> jjohansen: before your vacation, you were working on finishing up fixes for bug #1431717 and bug #1430546
<ubottu> bug 1431717 in AppArmor "audit qualifier does not become effective" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431717
<ubottu> bug 1430546 in linux (Ubuntu) "apparmor kernel BUG kills firefox" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430546
 * jdstrand says hello
<tyhicks> jjohansen: do you still have work to do on those?
<jjohansen> tyhicks: yep, so I bug #1431717 has its fix checked in, and I just have a few edits to patches to the set of man page updates that fell out of that
<ubottu> bug 1431717 in AppArmor "audit qualifier does not become effective" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431717
<tyhicks> ah, that's right
<jjohansen> and I need to check back in on  bug #1430546, which I was waiting for testing of a patched kernel on
<ubottu> bug 1430546 in linux (Ubuntu) "apparmor kernel BUG kills firefox" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430546
<tyhicks> jjohansen: I see that you're still waiting on testing
<jjohansen> yeah
<tyhicks> jjohansen: that's something that I can help with in a day or two if the original reporter doesn't get back to you
 * jjohansen too
<jjohansen> ack thanks
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me, sarnold you're up
<tyhicks> jjohansen: one last reminder, you were also going to 'Followup with kernel team regarding the bug #1423810 and #1423810 fixes landing'
<ubottu> bug 1423810 in linux-manta (Ubuntu) "apparmor fd_inheritance regression test causes kernel to crash on touch kernel backports" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423810
<tyhicks> (no comment needed - just throwing it out there since it was in my notes)
<tyhicks> sarnold: go ahead :)
<jjohansen> ack
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week; I'm working on the server-stack automated openstack testing, which is finally feeliung some progress; I think the glance changes in the PPA broke image uploading, so it might even be paying dividends already
<sbeattie> tyhicks: FYI, 1431717 should be fixed in vivid in with the pending apparmor upload
<tyhicks> oh nice :)
<sarnold> there's also some still-outstanding MIRs to work on, conntrack, python-cryptography, ppc64-diag's dependencies.. I won't have time to get through them all, but I should be able to do one this week and probably progress on more
<sarnold> I also saw some SRU fixes requiring testing, I thought some of thos emight be worth working on too
<sarnold> I hate seeing fixes go wasted
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<tyhicks> sarnold: I'd suggest python-cryptography as the first MIR to get back to
<chrisccoulson> This week, I've got Mozilla updates to do
<chrisccoulson> I've also still got some work to do to make future firefox releases (from 38 onwards) build on precise. I have it built successfully using a standalone build of gcc 4.8 now, but it doesn't have the hardening flags atm
<tyhicks> that sounds like good progress
<chrisccoulson> I got http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~oxide-developers/oxide/oxide.trunk/revision/1017 landed last week too, which fixed the main issues with the browser on arale :)
<tyhicks> \o/
<chrisccoulson> other than that, I'll be focused on bug 1428754, bug  1410996 and bug 1422920
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: is bug #1428754 still on your radar for this week?
<ubottu> bug 1428754 in Oxide "Persist permission request decisions for a session" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1428754
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<ubottu> bug 1410996 in Oxide "Add WebView.mediaAccessPermissionRequested API" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1410996
<ubottu> bug 1422920 in Oxide "Additions to LocationBarController API" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1422920
<tyhicks> nevermind :)
<chrisccoulson> tyhicks, yeah :)
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> sorry I was late
<jdstrand> so, I think sbeattie and I might have miscommunicated slightly on apparmor. I tested it and click-apparmor over the weekend and this morning and just publiched to the archive
<jdstrand> published*
<sbeattie> jdstrand: no worries.
<sarnold> d'oh
<jdstrand> I know sbeattie tested previous binaries, but then I uploaded the final one over the weekend
<jdstrand> (which didn't change his patches, but did need a recompile of course)
<tyhicks> well that's even better since it takes something off his plate for the week
<jdstrand> I'm now going to be reviewing mvo's framework policies branch for snappy
<jdstrand> I have review tools updates for the week
<jdstrand> and also looking at reviewing mvo's seccomp launcher branch
<jdstrand> which means I'll be preparing seccomp policy
<jdstrand> I also have an embargoed issue
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<tyhicks> jdstrand: sorry taht I still haven't been able to review the launcher branch - is that something that both of us should do or just one of us?
<tyhicks> (that was one of the things that I intended to get to this week, too)
<jdstrand> tyhicks: well, I just didn't want mvo to be blocked on it. at this point I can do it but I'll ask if I need help
<tyhicks> ok
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/nsd3.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/webfs.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/musl.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-4.6-armhf-cross.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/aria2.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chriscoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 30 17:07:44 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-30-16.32.moin.txt
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thank you!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks! :)
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks :)
<micahg> As there are no applications scheduled for the DMB meeting, we'll be skipping the meeting this week unless anyone has something to bring up
<JHOSMAN> mhall119: i send the file for your mail! =)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-03-31
<JHOSMAN> Good morning mhall119  i send the file for your mail! =) you received information?
<mhall119> JHOSMAN: yes, I will forward it on to the rest of the team so we can make a decision on it
<JHOSMAN> mhall119:  Thanks, how do you think is the response time?
<mhall119> JHOSMAN: we usually review all of the requests on Wednesday mornings
<JHOSMAN> mhall119: you tell me that they could respond tomorrow? : D
<mhall119> JHOSMAN: I think we have enough information from you now to decide, so you should have an answer tomorrow, yes
<JHOSMAN> mhall119: Excelent! :D I watting your response! :D
<matsubara> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 31 16:01:43 2015 UTC.  The chair is matsubara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<matsubara> hello there
<rbasak> o/
<matsubara> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<matsubara> no action items from last meeting
<matsubara> #topic Vivid Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Vivid Development
<beisner> o/ hi all
<matsubara> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<caribou> o/
<coreycb> o/
<strikov> o/
<matsubara> #subtopic Release Bugs
<matsubara> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-v-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<matsubara> that report is empty for me
<matsubara> really odd that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't
<matsubara> ACTION: matsubara to chase someone in the QA team to fix http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-v-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<matsubara> #subtopic Blueprints
<matsubara> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/group/topic-v-server.html
<matsubara> how's that coming along? reminder to all to keep the blueprint status up to date
<matsubara> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<matsubara> anything from you caribou?
<caribou> nothing on my side, was sprinting all week
<matsubara> thanks caribou
<matsubara> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<matsubara> There are still some smoke tests from UTAH failing on daily basis. It's in my todo list to look for the root cause and file bugs for it.
<matsubara> #link http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Vivid/view/Smoke%20Testing/
<matsubara> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Only wanted to mention that some bcache related bugs would still require some feedback (bug 1425288 and bug 1425128).
<ubottu> bug 1425288 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel NULL pointer dereference during bcache cache_set_flush call" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425288
<ubottu> bug 1425128 in linux (Ubuntu Trusty) "bcache causes task hang with 3.13 kernel" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425128
<smb> That would be all from my side.
<strikov> smb: Thanks for your nested kvm fix btw
<smb> :) you are welcome
<matsubara> smb, thanks. Any specific people in the server team needs to look at those?
<smb> Not sure who jamespage mentioned last time
<matsubara> #action jamespage to provide feedback on bugs 1425288 and 1425128
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to provide feedback on bugs 1425288 and 1425128
<ubottu> bug 1425128 in linux (Ubuntu Trusty) "bcache causes task hang with 3.13 kernel" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425128
<ubottu> bug 1425288 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel NULL pointer dereference during bcache cache_set_flush call" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425288
<matsubara> thanks smb
<matsubara> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<matsubara> None that I'm aware of
<matsubara> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<matsubara> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<matsubara> next meeting same time next week, Apr 7th. gaughen will chair
<matsubara> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 16:16:25 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-31-16.01.moin.txt
<matsubara> thanks everyone
<caribou> matsubara: thanks
<beisner> thanks matsubara
<gaughen> thanks matsubara!
<strikov> matsubara: thanks
<gaughen> matsubara, feel free to not update the next chair  ;-)
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 31 17:00:04 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Vivid
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<apw> o/
<cking> \o
<ppisati> \o/
<henrix> o/
<kamal> o/
<sforshee> o/
<smb> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Our Vivid kernel has been rebased to v3.19.3.  We are planning to
<ogasawara> upload today.  We are rapidly approaching kernel freeze for Vivid on
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 9.  If you have any patches which need to land for 15.04's
<ogasawara> release, please make sure to submit those asap.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 09 - Kernel Freeze (~1 week away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 23 - 15.04 Release (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   *   Lucid - None (no update)
<bjf>   * Precise - Testing & Verification
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Testing & Verification
<bjf>   *  Utopic - Testing & Verification
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current cycle: 20-Mar through 11-Apr
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          20-Mar   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 22-Mar - 28-Mar   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 29-Mar - 11-Apr   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> NOTE: Lucid goes EOL on April 30.
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 17:04:41 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-31-17.00.moin.txt
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-04-02
<JHOSMAN> hello mhall119 ! =)
<mihir> popey: ping
 * slangasek waves
<sil2100> o/
<barry> \o
<caribou> o/
<robru> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  2 15:02:17 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> (be on mumble in a minute)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<cyphermox> o/
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox)
<slangasek> robru slangasek mvo doko jodh sil2100 bdmurray caribou barry cyphermox stgraber infinity
<robru> slangasek: not ready, please come back to me ;-)
<slangasek> hmph :)
<slangasek> ok one second
<slangasek>  * was on vacation last week; spent the first couple of days this week playing email catch-up
<slangasek>  * snappy: worked on getting initial arm64 builds done now that the IS firewalls have been sorted
<slangasek>  * phone: created a new channel flavor, "ubuntu-developer", with a different custom tarball by request of PES - all the things that are being open sourced from the BQ custom, but with extra bits not necessarily targeted to end users
<slangasek>  * various internal contract discussions
<slangasek>  * interviewing ongoing for the open java role
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> and mvo is off today
<slangasek> robru: are you ready yet? ;)
<robru> slangasek: one sec
<robru> * CI Train:
<robru>   - fixed bug with certain projects that contain spaces in bzr tags
<robru>   - fixed some bugs in the handling & reporting of "dirty" silos
<robru>   - record revids instead of revnos so that we can notice when people revise their bzr history
<robru>   - experimented with pushing active IRC notifications to #ubuntu-ci-eng instead of the current system of polling
<robru>   - fixed a race condition in the dirty silo handling
<robru>   - fixed a bug allowing silos in an inconsistent state to be cleaned more reliably
<robru>   - fixed a bug where watch_phase sometimes gets tripped up with old versions of source-only uploads in the silo PPA
<robru> * Phablet Tools:
<robru>   - Fixed a bug where citrain tool was incorrectly interpreting zero-padded numbers as octal numbers and then installing the wrong silo on people's devices
<robru> * CI Engine:
<robru>   - some iteration on spreadsheet replacement
<slangasek> spaces are legal in bzr tags?
<slangasek> robru: anything else, or (done)?
<robru> slangasek: who knew!
<robru> (done)
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - fix issues in python2.7
<doko> - more GCC 5 work
<doko> - sent Go summary for vivid
<doko> - fixing build failures, MIR work, ...
<doko> - interview for the openjdk role
<slangasek> python2.7, people still use that? ;)  everyone should be using python3 by now, surely ;)
<doko> well, there's a small package called openstack
<slangasek> old technology, clearly
<doko> and python2.7 crept in to the images again, have to check why
<slangasek> doko: thanks for the go summary.  Do you know who was going to be proposing the FFe for golang?
<doko> (done)
<doko> slangasek, I know, but I don't know if I should share publically ;)
<slangasek> ok
<jodh> * snappy:
<jodh>   - Lots of work on the upgrader.
<jodh>     - Implemented format command.
<jodh>     - Ongoing work to update tests.
<jodh>   - MP to log commands that change system state:
<jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/snappy/log-commands-that-change-system-state/+merge/254405
<jodh>   - MP to quieten down logging for non-error scenarios:
<jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/snappy/log-filename+lineno-onlyh-for-loglevel-error-and-above/+merge/254429
<jodh>   - MPs to fix system unit generation:
<jodh>     - https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/snappy/systemd-unit-fixes/+merge/254434
<jodh>     - https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/snappy/service-files-should-not-be-executable/+merge/254873
<jodh>   - Bug 1412737:
<ubottu> bug 1412737 in snappy-ubuntu "snappy on grub systems should detect a broken boot and fall back to the other root partition on power cycling." [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1412737
<jodh>     - Lots of testing.
<jodh>     - Feature Now landed.
<jodh>   - Investigating bug 1438889.
<ubottu> bug 1438889 in snappy-ubuntu "unhelpful syslog entries" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1438889
<jodh> J
<sil2100> Oh, me now?
<slangasek> yes
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Small visual and performance tweaks to the Issue Tracker
<sil2100> - Help in building and allocating an oxide-qt silo
<sil2100> - RTM - vivid archive delta: * Finishing base scripts, added tests * Generating delta, setting up periodic scripts * Human-analyzing the delta, removing false-positives * Poking developers missing their RTM fixes in vivid
<sil2100> - RTM status meeting and discussions
<sil2100> - CI Train spreadsheet issues * Spreadsheet went crazy, multiple attempts to calm it down - failure (wasted time) * Workaround solution: migrating to a new spreadsheet (geh) * Re-targetting tools to the new spreadsheet * Might try helping with the spreadsheet replacement next week
<sil2100> - Preparations for the OTA-3 next week
<sil2100> Wow, ok, my shell doesn't like multi space-starting lines
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> fixed Traceback with daisy/retracer.py
<bdmurray> rewrote rate of crashes counter to take into account CountersForProposed
<bdmurray> update daisy/submit.py to write to same type of counter used by rate of crashes checker (r624)
<bdmurray> exposed exclude_proposed in error tracker API
<bdmurray> submitted merge-proposal for phased-updater change to use exclude_proposed
<bdmurray> release of verified SRUs for testing the phased-updater
<bdmurray> investigation into difference in phased-updater crash rates for compiz, gvfs
<bdmurray> discovered saved crashes on retracers are missing CoreDumps
<bdmurray> modified daisy/retracer.py to really save crash files with the CoreDump
<bdmurray> queried cassandra database for quantity of crashes about click packages
<bdmurray> irc discussion with pmcgowan regarding error tracker usage
<bdmurray> investigation into bug 1316763 not taking effect / testing
<ubottu> bug 1316763 in apport (Ubuntu Trusty) "bucketing of recoverable problems is done poorly" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316763
<bdmurray> looked into occurrence count differences for pmcgowan
<bdmurray> reported linux bug LP: #1436940 regarding missing wireless device driver
<bdmurray> submitted unattended-upgrades apport package hook to grab correct log file
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1436940 in linux (Ubuntu) "Wireless device not listed in driver's PCI IDs" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436940
<bdmurray> investigation into ubuntu-release-upgrader autopackage test failure regression
<bdmurray> pinged someone about https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/goget-ubuntu-touch/product-uuid/+merge/229315
<xnox> gosh, blast from the past.
<bdmurray> â done
<xnox> BTW. gaughen: ogasawara_: bdmurray: slangasek: fancy a dinner next week in porland? I'll be over =)
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou>  - Investigating rsyslog memory leak on Trusty : data analysis ongoing
<caribou> - Preparation for Engineering Core sprint
<caribou> - Endless openafs dkms fix backport
<caribou> Sprinted with CTS engineering team all of last week
<caribou> (done)
<gaughen> xnox, I could do Tuesday or Thursday evening.
<barry> snappy: working on snappy python blog post.  final proof read and post today
<barry> debuntu: LP: #1290847
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1290847 in python3.4 (Ubuntu) "pyvenv fails due to mising ensurepip module" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290847
<barry> si: updated toxify branch for server mp.  began looking into adding si 3.0 support (config.d directory).
<barry> other: pycon prep work.
<barry> next week: montreal
<barry> --done--
<cyphermox>  * review/testing silo 30 for NM fixes
<cyphermox>  * manual upload of NM 0.9.10.0-0ubuntu13
<cyphermox>  * More work on casper CD ejection (input not received)
<xnox> gaughen: cool. I guess i should send out an email or something about that.
<cyphermox>  * Spent some time looking into route metrics issue (bug 1436330)
<cyphermox>    - patch will need a fair amount of porting to work, or rewriting
<cyphermox>  * Debugging nm-applet bug 1418260
<ubottu> bug 1436330 in network-manager (Ubuntu Vivid) "Network Manager doesn't set metric for local networks any more, causing connection issues" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436330
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1418260 could not be found
<cyphermox>  * oem-config user removal/more fixes for systemd (bug 1436937)
<cyphermox>  * grub2 patch review for ARP packets, compared patch with upstream fixes
<ubottu> bug 1436937 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Temporary OEM user not removed after end user setup" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436937
<cyphermox>  * Add patch to nm-applet to hide virtual devices (lxc bridges, etc.)
<cyphermox>  * Connectivity meeting, discussions on current conn. issues on phone
<cyphermox>  * Contacting design for ubiquity slideshow updates
<cyphermox> (done)
<stgraber>  - LXC/LXD
<stgraber>    - Archive upload of LXD 0.5
<stgraber>    - Work on fixing Jenkins CI (corrupted FS, had to move a few TB around and repair the fs)
<stgraber>    - Investigation in current test failures for lxc and lxcfs, fixes in progress
<stgraber>    - Various bugfixes and feature work on LXC and LXD
<stgraber>    - Code reviews, bug triaging, other admin paperwork
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>    - Couple of days working on a security bug.
<stgraber> (done)
<infinity> - Helped the kernel team with cherrypicks for 2015 Thinkpads
<infinity> - Babysat firewall issues for arm64 snappy builds
<infinity> - Lots and lots of queue reviews
<infinity> - General AA and SRU bits
<infinity> - Investigated LP: #1434579 -- Still needs fixing
<infinity> - Shaved 30 seconds off ftpmaster's publisher
<infinity> - Finished two transitions to remove old versions of gcrypt and gnutls from vivid
<stgraber> barry, doko, cyphermox: we should have dinner or something next week then before cyphermox and I fly to Austin
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1434579 in virtualbox (Ubuntu) "Unable to install VirtualBox Guest Service in 15.04" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1434579
<infinity> - Started rebuilding powerpc and ppc64el VMs to double disk space
<infinity> (done)
<infinity> !!! NOTE: If you're using machines in 1SS today, use screen sessions, lamont is replacing the firewall today, and your network WILL go away, possibly for hours.
<ubottu> infinity: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<xnox> cyphermox: design does not do slideshow updates, as far as I can tell it's a community thing in ubiquity-slideshows project or some such?! E.g. there are screenshots from me there and minor tweaks.
<barry> stgraber: for sure!
<cyphermox> stgraber: I was going to point that out in AOB :)
<xnox> cyphermox: what needs doing?
<xnox> infinity: gcrypt \o/
<cyphermox> xnox: a vervet, for one.
<cyphermox> to replace our shiny triangular unicorn :)
<xnox> cyphermox: oh, right. that was usually poking the same person who designed default desktop wallpaper to snitch the vervet graphic. i guess poke the desktop team manager. he coordinated the wallpaper this time around
<lamont> infinity: max 2 hours, expecting about 15 min or less
<slangasek> cyphermox: did you arrive at that "nm-applet virtual interfaces" question independently, or did this come up in response to the bug I filed yesterday about NM eating my bridges? :)
<infinity> lamont: I prefer to prepare for the worst and be pleasantly surprised. :)
<cyphermox> slangasek: I had come to it independently when I initially did the NM 0.9.10 work; but it was low in my priority list, but then you pointed it out and someone filed a bug, so ...
<infinity> slangasek: The NM virtual interfaces thing was reported by lots of people, in bugs and private grumbling.
<lamont> infinity: ack
<cyphermox> slangasek: NM shouldn't be eating bridges and this change won't keep it from doing it
<slangasek> infinity: ok :)
<infinity> (Lots of private grumbling)
<cyphermox> it's really just avoiding people clicking on the bridge thingies in nm-applet and breaking the bridge that way
<slangasek> any other questions over folks status?
<cyphermox> oh
<cyphermox> I might need quick review on a ubiquity merge
<cyphermox> https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/ubiquity/oem-config/+merge/255103
<cyphermox> ^ the oem-config fixes above
<slangasek> who can help with the above?  infinity, stgraber?
<infinity> Yes, one of us. :P
 * xnox looks
 * infinity has it open in a tab now.
<infinity> Already not happy about "sleep 5", but need context.  Will poke later. :P
<slangasek> :)
<cyphermox> sure ;)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] sprint planning
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: sprint planning
<slangasek> so I've added a new tab to the core sprint planning spreadsheet for 'Foundations Agenda' - https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheets/d/12QAyy4oB6uDzfrPrQqe54QiZzXEyFTbbQOUGvqZLrWo/edit#gid=628679993
 * ogra_ alwasy wondered why there is no "thunder round" after a "lightning round"
<xnox> cyphermox: looks good, i ponder if we should do that for normal ubiquity as well.... including all the try-ubiquity/only-ubiquity modes.
<slangasek> ogra_: the lightning is so far away that by the time the thunder arrives the meeting is over
<cyphermox> ogra_: indeed. imaging we're doing lightning in space.
<infinity> ogra_: Because we're close enough to the source that both happen together.
<bdmurray> ogra_: because its the other way around
<ogra_> slangasek, lol
<slangasek> those of you who're coming to Austin, please throw in there the list of topics you plan to work on during the week
<slangasek> especially anything that you're going to want other people's time on
<stgraber> cyphermox: looks ok. Also not fond of the sleep but the alternative (wait loop) probably isn't much prettier. I'm also not that good at systemd units yet, so you unless you're sure about them, you may want pitti to take a look.
<sil2100> I'll probably be running around discussing RTM plans for the future
<slangasek> sil2100: fine, please add to the spreadsheet :)
<slangasek> anything else on the subject of sprint planning?
<robru> stgraber: can I get you to merge & deploy this queuebot update? https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/queuebot/new-spreadsheet/+merge/255106
<sil2100> robru: I think he already did that
<xnox> cyphermox: one thing, in upstart world, that blocking thing achieved was if/when ubiquity crashes on it's face the dm is brought up. Not that useful in oem-config case i guess, as one wouldn't know how to do oem login.
<sil2100> robru: I poked him and queuebot is already switched (probably only live)
<sil2100> robru: I tried poking and changing everything I could ;)
<xnox> cyphermox: and there is no user setted up.
<robru> sil2100: ok well this is a branch so the code gets updated properly and doesn't get reverted next time there's a rollout
 * bdmurray will brb
<stgraber> robru: yeah, I already have a local commit here for that, just haven't pushed it to LP yet
<xnox> cyphermox: i wonder if it would be possible to add oem-config.target as wantedby graphical.target and thus block it that way?
<doko> slangasek, so I'm not allow to throw things?
<robru> stgraber: thanks
<doko> allowed even
<xnox> cyphermox: and at the end of oem-config, remove that wantedby?
<cyphermox> xnox: you kind of still need to make sure oem-config is what runs after reboot from running oem-config-prepare. this worked, at lest
<cyphermox> xnox: heh
<xnox> cyphermox: yeah, so prepare would add graphical.target.wants/oem-config.taget. and end of oem-config would remove that.
<xnox> cyphermox: rather than fiddling with default-targets. Note that this oh...
<xnox> cyphermox: this totally breaks oem-config on the server, which doesn't have graphical.target =)
<cyphermox> there was one issue with how when we remove oem-config it deletes the files
<cyphermox> actually
<slangasek> doko: you can throw things, but if you're not at the sprint it may or may not stick ;)  happy to discuss it with you offline
<cyphermox> server does do graphical.target too.
<xnox> cyphermox: oh, ok.
<cyphermox> unexpected, I agree
<cyphermox> xnox: let's discuss this later in a better location.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<cyphermox> drinking in YUL next week?
<barry> when do you guys head to austin?
<cyphermox> :)
<infinity> For those who missed it in the chatter last time, 1SS firewall going away this afternoon, plan accordingly.
<caribou> I can think of better places than YUL for drinks
<cyphermox> barry: saturday.
<barry> cool.  i get in on tuesday night
<caribou> but I won't be there, going back to sleep
<slangasek> saturday> cyphermox apparently needs an extra day of barbecue
<cyphermox> err, wait, I meant sunday
<barry> maybe thursday?
<cyphermox> works for me
<stgraber> thursday works for me
<barry> on the calendar!
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  2 15:33:56 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-02-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks everyone!
<barry> thanks!
<cyphermox> thanks!
<caribou> thanks !
<sil2100> o/
<wxl> elfy: are we not doing the lubuntu cc check in today?
<wxl> pleia2: perhaps you might know?
<elfy> hi wxl - yep - we're running a bit late
<wxl> elfy: ok just checking :)
 * ianorlin understands as well
<czajkowski> wxl: ianorlin can we start in 15 mins at the half hour
<czajkowski> please
<czajkowski> we've had a double booking :)
<wxl> czajkowski: np with me
<elfy> thanks wxl
<czajkowski> thanks
<mhall119> thanks wxl
<wxl> np np :)
<wxl> so 1730
<wxl> will make a post about it
<wxl> gsilva: yes, the meeting should start soon :)
<gsilva> thank you :)
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  2 17:31:57 2015 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<mhall119> o/
<wxl> hey hey
<czajkowski> Aloha and thank you taking the time to join this meeting
<ianorlin> o/
<czajkowski> #chair mhall119 elfy
<meetingology> Current chairs: czajkowski elfy mhall119
<czajkowski> #topic lubuntu catch up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lubuntu catch up
<czajkowski> so who is here from the Lubuntu team ?
<wxl> o/
<ianorlin> o/
<mhall119> so how is Lubunu 15.04 coming along?
<elfy> hi people
<gsilva> Hello everyone o/
<wxl> it is coming along
<wxl> current development is focused on moving to qt
<wxl> and that's slated for 15.10, maybe 16.04
<wxl> so 15.04 isn't going to have any super cutting edge features
<mhall119> that's right, LXDE is moving to qt, is it Qt4 or Qt5?
<ianorlin> Qt5
<ianorlin> Qt4 isn't suppored in the qt version
<wxl> yeah upstream, lxde is pretty much dead in the water
<mhall119> so we are already coordinating Qt released into the archives between the Unity8/SDK developers and the Kubuntu developers, it would probably be good for you guys to be in that loop too as new releases are going to start affecting you too
<wxl> is there some particular forum/list we should be on for that particular purpose?
<mhall119> wxl: I don't personally know, you might email ubuntu-devel and ask
<ianorlin> that does make sense
<wxl> ok i'll look into that
<wxl> btw i'm just following your lead here, guys. if you want me to ramble about everything in the lubuntu world, i can. XD
<mhall119> wxl: anything that you think the CC should know, or questions you have for us, or assistance you need from us
<elfy> PPC - how's that likely to carry on into the foreseeable future - I know it causes you pain come milestones ...
<mhall119> wxl: but you don't have to give us a progress report or anything like that :)
<wxl> mhall119: i'll get to generalities after we've exhausted other questions
<wxl> elfy: well, we're lts only on ppc, so it's been mostly ok
<wxl> elfy: plus i think we've got a more dedicated team of ppc folks, so that helps too
<elfy> wxl: so the current vivid image trackers not a worry then
<wxl> elfy: totally
<wxl> elfy: in fact, it's great that the testers we have are checking a release that they know won't be released for them :)
<elfy> so not a worry till 2016 :)
<wxl> yeppers
<wxl> any other specifics?
<elfy> not from me
<wxl> ok so then a wee update
<elfy> I kind of know where you are vivid wise :)
<wxl> 1s phone just rang :/
<elfy> :)
<wxl> ok
<wxl> back
<wxl> so
<wxl> here's the big update
<mhall119> wxl: how is the Lubuntu developer community, is it growing, shrinking, or holding steady?
<wxl> gsilva recently became our new head of wiki/docs and he's got a real mind to make some major improvements. super excited about that.
<ianorlin> I have seen more people upstream growing in lxqt like every few weeks a new person joins upstream
<elfy> that's good
<elfy> wxl: ^^
<wxl> mhall119: i would say growing. i've even been trying to dip my toes in the water personally, but with all the different repos/bug trackers upstream it's kind of unclear what the process is like. i hope to get some clarity on that soon and make some documentation for people coming from ubuntu.
<gsilva> I have some ideas but I don't have enough time nor people enough to deliver them
<mhall119> how is the relationship between Lubuntu and upstream lxqt? Is there regular communication and cooperation?
<wxl> mhall119: absolutely. our main developer, gilir, is the real bridge there.
<ianorlin> I also have reported a few bugs in upstream and got them fixed for lxqt
<wxl> ditto
<wxl> ianorlin's been a huge help as of late, helping with triage, development, testing (as always), and even covering for me as release manager for the last beta when i was on vacation
<wxl> supposedly he's going to get his ubuntu membership sometime soon *AHEM* ;)
<elfy> yep I noticed that :)
<elfy> oh - and I noticed the membership wiki update with that on too - good luck :)
<wxl> silverlion, our comms guy, had to step away from his responsibilities, and we have a new guy (who used to be team leader)
<elfy> all change then ;)
<wxl> yeah a lot of change
<wxl> the good news is that now that silverlion isn't committed to doing press releases and stuff, he's getting things set up to do more screencasts
<wxl> so it won't be something that we expect on some sort of scheduled basis, but it will be icing on the cake
<wxl> as for my realm (qa/bugs), i'm still working on finally getting a little contest set up to encourage more contribution
<wxl> i have the rewards, but need to make the write up
<elfy> wxl: good luck with that :)
<wxl> yeah, i've been pondering how to fairly gamify it
<wxl> â¦in such a way that encourages new participation
<wxl> i'm thinking about giving more weight to new or less frequent contributors
<elfy> something I ponder too
<wxl> unfortunately the more i think about it, the more complex it gets :)
<elfy> yep
<wxl> and then i start thinking about how much time i need to spend collecting and analyzing all the data, but oh well
<wxl> maybe if i come up with something really good and spend the time making software to support it, then it's something that the rest of the community can use
<wxl> ianorlin: since i was on vacation and still haven't totally caught up, can you give us some sense of what the next milestone will look like? do we have some annoying bugs to squash still?
<wxl> while he ponders that, i have one more issue, i guess
<ianorlin> yeah the lubuntu-software center not installing package out of the box unless you add the gnome-polickykit agent to startup and groups as gui stuff that needs superuser is proabably most important lxde fix
<ianorlin> and the one of the volume control settings not opening a mixer is pretty annoying as well
<elfy> so - is there anything that the CC can help with?
<ianorlin> and there might be one xorg problem effecting i686 that is important as well and the eject media and restart needs fixing for some other flavors as well as us
<wxl> i'm not sure the cc can do much about this
<wxl> hold on a second and i'll dig up the archives of the discussion
<wxl> but tl;dr i'm trying to figure out what to do about our alternate installer
<elfy> ianorlin: pretty sure that eject issue is global, I spoke to cyphermox earlier about that
<wxl> i guess the lsc issue is the biggest
<wxl> will have to investigate that more
<wxl> here's the blueprint about how to compress our releases https://blueprints.launchpad.net/lubuntu-brainstorming/+spec/one-iso-to-rule-them-all
<wxl> i'd like to get rid of alternate, but a lightweight installer is sort of a necessary thing for a lightweight distribution
<wxl> the problem is we sometimes run into these d-i bugs that no one else has
<wxl> so it's hard to get adequate support from them
<wxl> i'd like to have some more standardization
<ianorlin> even reporting them can be a challenge
<wxl> i emailed the server team about potentially making a text-only front end to ubiquity but heard nothing
<wxl> indeed
<wxl> so this does not require discussion now, but i just want to bring this up if the cc can think of any possible solutions or coordinate with other members of the community to come up with good solutions
<wxl> and that's all igot
 * ianorlin doesn't have anything anymore either
<cyphermox> ianorlin: elfy: yes, the eject issue (plymouth not getting input) is global, it affects all flavors.
<wxl> cyphermox: ianorlin: elfy: those are the kind of bugs we like XD
<elfy> :)
<elfy> mhall119: so perhaps we could help get them in touch with the right people at least?
<wxl> that being said, czajkowski elfy mhall119, if you don't need anything else, i've got a busy day ahead of me
<cyphermox> it looks to me like it's due to the display-manager not stopping early enough before plymouth starts, so plymouth gets confused
<elfy> wxl: you go ahead if you need to, I know where to find you :)
<wxl> indeed i am around :)
<wxl> ok since i'm not hearing anything else, i'm going to disappear for a bit then :)
<elfy> okey doke
<wxl> thank you all for all you do!
<elfy> ianorlin: anything else from you?
<elfy> cyphermox: ty for that by the way :)
<elfy> ok - I'll call that cooked then - thanks all :)
<elfy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  2 18:05:09 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-02-17.31.moin.txt
<Riddell> wxl: qt chat happens in #kubuntu-devel with mirv and mitya57
<JHOSMAN> Hello mhall119 ! =)
<zerng07> Hi everyone
<ianorlin> hi
<d4rk-5c0rp> hi
<wxl> yellow
<ahayzen> o/
<cwayne> hiya
<wxl> who's running the show today?
<zerng07> well, I don't know...
<elfy> bert
<wxl> jeez even belkinsa's not around
<cwayne> do we have enough for a quorum?
<elfy> oh - is there a meeting ?
<cwayne> yar
<elfy> do a #startmeeting so we all know and logs get logged :)
<cwayne> cyphermox, popey hggdh you guys around?
<elfy> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  2 22:04:57 2015 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<elfy> #chair cwayne
<meetingology> Current chairs: cwayne elfy
<cwayne> #meetingtopic 22UTC ubuntu membership board meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 22UTC ubuntu membership board meeting | Current topic:
<elfy> awesome
<wxlS5> ugh stupid chrome
<zerng07> we are applying for ubuntu membership
<wxl> oh there we go
<elfy> cwayne: I'm about if you need any voiices or help
<cwayne> elfy, thanks, just trying to look for people to ping to get a quorum :)
<wxl> hggdh: ?
<wxl> jared: ?
<elfy> cwayne: yep - I can help there too if needed
<wxl> marcoceppi_: ?
<marcoceppi_> o/
<marcoceppi_> I can jump in
<wxl> there's one :)
<wxl> freeflying: ?
<elfy> wxl: PM
<wxl> indeed
<wxl> sorry :)
<wxl> so we have a quorum now?
 * marcoceppi_ is ready and raring
 * cwayne is ready as well, and we have popey's votes in the email
<wxl> excellent
<cwayne> how many do we need again?  /me has never run one of these :)
<wxl> hehe
 * wxl is not YET on the council so can't help you to be sure :)
<wxl> 4 i believe yes?
<zerng07> yeah
<marcoceppi_> wxl: so, we need to have at least 4 people
<marcoceppi_> as 4 votes are required per applicant
<marcoceppi_> err cwayne ^
<cwayne> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 2200 UTC meeting for April 2, 2015
<cwayne> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<cwayne> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<cwayne> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<cwayne> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<cwayne> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<cwayne> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers amounts to at least +1, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<cwayne> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<cwayne> #voters cyphermox Pendulum jared freeflying popey rickspencer3 marcoceppi Destine iulian IdleOne hggdh cwayne belkinsa PabloRubianes s-fox
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: Pendulum
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: rickspencer3
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: marcoceppi
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: Destine
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: iulian
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: IdleOne
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: belkinsa
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: PabloRubianes
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: s-fox
 * elfy is here if required
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine IdleOne PabloRubianes Pendulum belkinsa cwayne cyphermox freeflying hggdh iulian jared marcoceppi popey rickspencer3 s-fox
<elfy> so still no quorum ?
<cwayne> nope, need one more
<wxl> marcoceppi_ + cwayne + elfy (cc) + popey (email) = quorum
<wxl> no?
<cwayne> ah, yes I guess so then :)  I didn't realize elfy could sub in
<cwayne> #voters cwayne marcoceppi_ elfy popey
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine IdleOne PabloRubianes Pendulum belkinsa cwayne cyphermox elfy freeflying hggdh iulian jared marcoceppi marcoceppi_ popey rickspencer3 s-fox
<elfy> I can cwayne :)
<cwayne> we've got quorum then :)
<wxl> horray!
<cwayne> Now, without any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<elfy> I do need to go read wikis too
<cwayne> #subtopic Bedis ElAcheche
<marcoceppi_> d4rk-5c0rp: you're up!
<cwayne> hi there d4rk-5c0rp :)  please introduce yourself and briefly tell us about your contributions
<cwayne> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/d4rk-5c0rp
<cwayne> #link https://launchpad.net/~d4rk-5c0rp
 * Neo31 is here to support d4rk-5c0rp (Bedis), his contribution to our loco team is important and he does good for the international community and we trust he will keep doing great contributions.
 * elacheche_anis Hey! Am the Ubuntu-tn LoCo Contact, am here to support d4rk-5c0rp
<d4rk-5c0rp> Hi there, I'm bedis, I joined ubuntu-TN since 2011 and I'm now a FF member
<elfy> hi d4rk-5c0rp
<d4rk-5c0rp> hi elfy
<cwayne> thanks for the testimonials Neo31 elacheche_anis :)
<cwayne> anyone have any questions or shall we vote?
<elfy> what can you say about what you'd like to see you and Ubuntu work towards ?
<marcoceppi_> d4rk-5c0rp: I see you do a lot of work in your LOCO, and that's fantastic. Any plans to branch in to other areas of Ubuntu?
<elfy> I've read the wiki - but I'd quite like some unrehearsed words - they'll tell me more than that
<wxl> as a non-board/council member, but to facilitate conversation, i'd love to hear more on what you'd like to do with ubuntu touch, d4rk-5c0rp
<elfy> I'm liking what I've read for suire
<d4rk-5c0rp> marcoceppi_, everythig is possible
 * marcoceppi_ agrees with elfy
<elfy> d4rk-5c0rp: give me some feeling :)
<d4rk-5c0rp> wxl, I still exploring some ubuntu-touch tricks, I tried to make two apps before, but they really need some features for now, may be I'll start by getting an ubuntu-phone first, then I'll try to make some training session with people in my Loco
<cyphermox> d4rk-5c0rp: si vous avez des difficultÃ©s en anglais, je peux traduire.
<elfy> d4rk-5c0rp: that's great stuff - how do you feel about getting other people involved?
<d4rk-5c0rp> elfy, I want to move from just helping people to use ubuntu, to help them to make apps for ubuntu
<cyphermox> that's great
<elfy> for sure
<cyphermox> elfy: thanks for facilitating the discussions :)
* FatBack changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: penis
<elfy> cyphermox: do we have a language thing?
<elfy> eg
<cyphermox> what do you mean?
<d4rk-5c0rp> I have some ideas about some stuff like some simple dev tools that I want to write and share with the community, but it's just a matter of time for now
<elfy> cyphermox: I'm english .. with stupid
* cwayne changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 22UTC ubuntu membership board meeting | Current topic:
<cwayne> d4rk-5c0rp, do you have any specific dev tools in mind?
<elfy> d4rk-5c0rp:that's great :)
* FatBack changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: penis
<Mikaela> and here I was imagining that this channel had topiclock
<d4rk-5c0rp> I have an idea if some generators like CSS things for example, I want to make some kind of game to help kids to get used to cli too
<cwayne> d4rk-5c0rp, that sounds great!
<cyphermox> not fast enough I guess :)
* cwayne changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 22UTC ubuntu membership board meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> thanks cwayne, DalekSec
<DalekSec> cyphermox: Sure.  Welcome.
<d4rk-5c0rp> cwayne, all I need now is time, maybe I'll try to write such tools during a hackathon with my LoCo
<cyphermox> DalekSec: could you please do the same for #ubuntu-desktop, #ubuntu-devel
 * marcoceppi_ is ready to vote
<cwayne> d4rk-5c0rp, awesome!
<DalekSec> cyphermox: Sorry no.  No access.
<cwayne> #vote Bedis ElAcheche to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Bedis ElAcheche to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<cwayne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cwayne
<marcoceppi_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from marcoceppi_
<hggdh> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from hggdh
<cwayne> popey: +1 (according to email)
<cwayne> erm, didn't seem to count it
<wxl>  /nick popey
<wxl> ;)
<Neo31> lol
<elacheche_anis> x)
 * popey arrives fashionably late
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<popey> :)
<cwayne> oh cool :)
<wxl> yay popey's up late
<cwayne> d4rk-5c0rp, looks like you're in :)
<popey> \o/
<ianorlin> congratulations
<elacheche_anis> Congrats bro d4rk-5c0rp :)
<cwayne> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Bedis ElAcheche to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<wxl> congrats d4rk-5c0rp! please make sure to share your loco stuff with the rest of the locos!
<d4rk-5c0rp> \0/ :D
<cwayne> congrats d4rk-5c0rp :)
<ahayzen> congrats d4rk-5c0rp :)
<Neo31> congratz d4rk-5c0rp ^_^
<cyphermox> bienvenue d4rk-5c0rp!
<cwayne> Now, onto applicant 2 :)
<cyphermox> fwiw, I was +1 too
<lunapersa> congrats d4rk-5c0rp ^_^
<cyphermox> d4rk-5c0rp: please add your blog to planet.ubuntu.com if you have one :)
<cwayne> cyphermox, oops sorry, should've held out a bit longer before ending the vote :)
<cyphermox> no worries :)
<cwayne> #subtopic Cheng-Chia Tseng (zerng07)
<zerng07> Hi everyone, I am Cheng-Chia Tseng, username as zerng07.
<zerng07> I lived in Taiwan, and have been contributing to Ubuntu since 2010. The most of the work I focus on is about localization.
<zerng07> Besides Ubuntu, I also contribute to other FLOSS projects such as GNOME, LibreOffice, Translation Project...etc.
<zerng07> I am also a GNOME Member and The Document Foundation Member.
<zerng07> My personal wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zerng07
<cwayne> Hi there zerng07 :)
<marcoceppi_> o/ hello zerng07
<zerng07> :)
<wxl> send me some good oolong and we'll make you a member, zerng07. (kidding! well, kind of. i wouldn't mind the tea âº)
<zerng07> Haha!
<marcoceppi_> zerng07: very nice contributions so far. Curious, what are (briefly) a few of the things you'd change in the community today?
<zerng07> We do have good oolong here!
<wxl> i know!
<zerng07> I want to change most is about local community in Taiwan.
<wxl> cool!
<zerng07> As mentined in wiki, we have few contributors here.
<zerng07> and there are always some argues in local forum.
<wxl> i see there's no lp link on your wiki page so https://launchpad.net/~zerng07
<marcoceppi_> wxl: thanks
<wxl> are you thinking about taking over the leadership of the tw loco, zerng07? or what are you thinking?
<zerng07> Nope
<wxl> oh man the tw loco mailing list is dead :(
<wxl> sounds like you may have to do some work really building community
<zerng07> I would like to help with bluet to make loco more close to ubuntu community.
<zerng07> Yeah...
<zerng07> that's ture.
<zerng07> tw loco is not in good shape.
<cwayne> zerng07, can you go into some detail about 'suggesting the proper way to deal with Traditional Chinese locale'?  Do you mean in terms of input methods, fonts, etc?
<zerng07> yeah.
<wxl> taiwan covers â of the area of oregon. one of the biggest struggles i have in our loco is uniting that much area, but we're getting there. should be a bit easier for you. start with people you know and branch out from there!
<zerng07> I know how to configure those setting well.
<zerng07> How to make the system feel confortable for Chinese.
<zerng07> such as fontcnfig configuration.
<cwayne> have you contributed to Ubuntu Kylin?
<zerng07> wxl: thank you!
<wxl> are those things you could borrow from ubuntu kylin?
<wxl> oh hehehe gmta
<zerng07> I have not contributed to Ubuntu Kylin.
<zerng07> It is mainly for mainland Chia users.
<cwayne> ah, I hadn't realized that, oops :)
<zerng07> Some services and apps are not used in Taiwan.
<wxl> yeah i expect that the project as a whole is not applicable but i'm sure there are some parts of their work that could make yours easier
<wxl> and vice versa!
<zerng07> Yeah.
<zerng07> :)
<zerng07> Ubuntu Kylin brings some changes to Taiwan too. They are going to change the default input method framework for chinese locale.
<zerng07> I have known Aroon Xu who is behind this work.
<zerng07> Aron
<zerng07> I will do some tests and make the switch smooth.
<wxl> excellent!
<zerng07> That is what I always do. :)
<cwayne> :)
<cwayne> does anyone else have any more questions?
<marcoceppi_> no
<cyphermox> not from me
<popey> no
<hggdh> no
<cwayne> #vote Cheng-Chia Tseng (zerng07) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Cheng-Chia Tseng (zerng07) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<marcoceppi_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from marcoceppi_
<hggdh> +1 thank you for your work
<meetingology> +1 thank you for your work received from hggdh
<cwayne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cwayne
<cwayne> I love the focus on i18n
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<zerng07> Thank you everyone! :)
<cwayne> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Cheng-Chia Tseng (zerng07) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<popey> \o/
<cwayne> congratulations zerng07 :)
<wxl> zerng07: ç¥è³ (hope i got that right!)
<ahayzen> congrats zerng07 :)
<Neo31> congratz zerng07
<Neo31> :)
<zerng07> wxl: Cool!
<zerng07> Thanks! :)
<Neo31> wxl, can you help us with something? me and d4rk-5c0rp :)
<cwayne> should we keep going since we started quite late?
 * Neo31 is sorry for disturbance
<wxl> Neo31: any reason why you're singling me out? i'm, of course, happy to help, but :)
<wxl> cwayne: i REALLY want ianorlin to get his membership so yes XD
<hggdh> I think we can keep on
<cyphermox> congrats zerng07
 * popey is happy to stick around
<ianorlin> as 1200 utc = 3am for me
<cwayne> okies, im good to continue as well
<wxl> me too
<cwayne> #subtopic Brendan Perrine (ianorlin)
<cyphermox> I'm good to continue too
<wxl> (3am i mean!)
<wxl> Neo31: you're welcome to pm btw
<marcoceppi_> m etoo
<ianorlin> I am Brendan Perrine and I do a lot of testing of iso espically for lubuntu
<zerng07> cool!
<ianorlin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/walterorlin is my wiki page
 * Neo31 will wait for the meeting to finish
<ianorlin> https://launchpad.net/~walterorlin is my page on launchpad
<zerng07> lxde origins from Taiwan!
<ianorlin> I also am in #lubuntu answering question on most days
<wxl> zerng07: as an aside, you're more than welcome to help with translation in lubuntu. see me later if you want more info on that XD
<zerng07> OK!
<ianorlin> I also am involved in the ubuntu-california loco and am one of 3 elected leaders and the biggest event I planned was scale
<ianorlin> I have also helped triage bugs and submitted some small patches for typos and was a backup relase manager for lubuntu last Thursday for final beta
<wxl> (and did such a good job with that, he'll probably continue to be backup should i go on a vacation during milestones again!)
<ianorlin> thanks wxl
<wxl> np!
<hggdh> ianorlin: BTW, thank you for stepping up to the release manager work last week
<ianorlin> hggdh you're welcome
<cwayne> ianorlin, do you see yourself working towards more code contributions, or do you think your primary contributions will remain QA/testing?
<ianorlin> I want to help on testing but will work towards some code contributions if I can understand it but I find the hard part is wrapping my head around all the libraries needed to contriubte code to lxqt for example which is wehre the development of lubuntu is headed
<cwayne> ah yeah, I can imagine that being quite complex :)
<cwayne> anyone else have questions?
<popey> nope
<cwayne> #vote Brendan Perrine (ianorlin) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Brendan Perrine (ianorlin) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<cwayne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cwayne
<cwayne> big fan of QA contributions (having come from a QA background myself :D)
<cyphermox> keep up the work ianorlin :)
<popey> yeah!
<hggdh> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from hggdh
<ianorlin> thanks
<marcoceppi_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from marcoceppi_
<cwayne> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Brendan Perrine (ianorlin) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<ahayzen> congrats ianorlin :)
 * wxl gives ianorlin a congratulatory hug!
<wxl> yay!
<cwayne> congratulations ianorlin
<Neo31> congratz ianorlin :)
<cyphermox> congrats!
<cwayne> keep up the good testing work :)
<cwayne> #subtopic Andrew Hayzen (ahayzen)
<cwayne> you're up ahayzen :)
<ahayzen> \o/
<wxl> holy testimonials, ahayzen
<ahayzen> Hey folks, my name is Andrew Hayzen I am a student studying a BSc in Software Engineering and started using Ubuntu in 2009.
<ahayzen> My main contribution to Ubuntu has been over the past year and a half in which I have been working on the Ubuntu Touch Core Apps project, mainly the Music-app.
<ahayzen> This has involved a variety of tasks such has learning QML/Qt, working with 'upstream' projects, other community members and canonical employees, triaging and fixing bugs, using the Nexus 4 (mako) with Ubuntu Touch as a daily driver and many other exciting things :)
<Neo31> wxl, I was concerned about the question you asked about Ubuntu Touch in the beginning of this meeting. do you have good contacts with great knowledge of ubuntu touch core development? We need some help
<wxl> Neo31: meeting'
<ahayzen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ahayzen https://launchpad.net/~ahayzen
<wxl> s not over. mind a pm?
 * Neo31 oups sorry again
 * popey has worked closely with ahayzen over the last 18 months. I'm here both as a board member and to cheer for him.
<popey> (I have put a testimonial on ahayzen's wiki page)
<ahayzen> thanks popey :)
<cwayne> ahayzen, you were at the DC sprint right? I think we were on the same trivia team :)
<ahayzen> cwayne, yeah I was ... no way!
 * cwayne is drinking out of his second place ubuntu-mug now
<cwayne> lol
<ahayzen> With Gerry as well?
<ahayzen> yeah the second place mug \o/
<cwayne> lol yep
<cwayne> well, I don't really have any questions
<popey> ditto
<popey> actually one
<ahayzen> uh oh ;)
<popey> ahayzen: if you weren't working on music app, what other are of ubuntu would you be interested in?
<ahayzen> popey, if you mean in terms of non ubuntu touch ... probably either Juju or snappy
<popey> Yeah, anything.
<marcoceppi_> +1 for juju ;)
<wxl> +1 for snappy!
<popey> oi, leave him alone!
 * wxl rubs his raspberry pi 2
<ahayzen> i would love to be able to learn juju ...and snappy on the desktop would be awesome :D
 * marcoceppi_ hugs his cloud
<popey> Ok. Interesting. I look forward to seeing future contributions in those areas if you have time.
<ahayzen> yeah i hope to get a RPi2 at some point :)
<ahayzen> infact can you put Juju on a RPi2 cloud ? (offtopic)
<ahayzen> 'cloud'
<marcoceppi_> ahayzen: you totally can!
<wxl> ahayzen: well there's a snappy image so yes :)
<ahayzen> popey, we need to get our apps converging before i can move somewhere else :)
<wxl> +1 ahayzen !
<ahayzen> wxl, marcoceppi_ awesome :)
<cwayne> :) excited for converging apps
 * wxl is, too
<cwayne> well, shall we vote then
<cwayne> #vote Andrew Hayzen (ahayzen) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Andrew Hayzen (ahayzen) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<cwayne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cwayne
<marcoceppi_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from marcoceppi_
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<hggdh> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from hggdh
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<cwayne> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Andrew Hayzen (ahayzen) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cwayne> congratulations ahayzen :)
<ahayzen> \o/ OMG! thanks :)
<wxl> yay!
<wxl> congrats ahayzen
<wxl> welcome to the family ;)
<hggdh> ahayzen: welcome!
<ahayzen> sweet :) thanks folks
<wxl> thank you membership board :)
<popey> \o/
<cwayne> ok well, went a bit longer than expected, but successful meeting nonetheless :)
<cwayne> thanks all
<popey> congratulations ahayzen
<popey> yes.
<wxl> now you utc'ers can get some sleep :)
<popey> thanks everyone fot sticking around
<popey> *for
<ahayzen> yeah thanks for staying everyone :)
<cwayne> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  2 23:40:10 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-02-22.04.moin.txt
<cwayne> i've got to run now, can someone else send out the results email?
<cwayne> or i can do it when I return
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-04-03
<sarnold> win 30
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-04-04
<mdeslaur> \o
<jjohansen> o/
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  4 16:36:37 2016 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> fix udev db and cgroup handling in the ubuntu-core-launcher
<jdstrand> seccomp arg filtering in ubuntu-core-launcher
<jdstrand> policy updates for Ubuntu Core 16.04
<jdstrand> assisting interfaces transition
<jdstrand> snappy on classic policy
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on bug triage this week
<mdeslaur> I'm going to publish updates for xchat-gnome and libav in a few minutes
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll be spending the week on an embargoed issue
<mdeslaur> that's it for me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<jdstrand> let's skip sbeattie for now
<jdstrand> I can saw ty hicks is off today, but he'll be working on apparmor landing in 16.04
<jdstrand> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> so I'll be working on apparmor this week
<jjohansen> There are still some bugs in the Xenial 3.5 release to squash, and I need to do a deeper dive into what is needed to support overlayfs
<jjohansen> there is also a list of fixes in 3.5 that need to get backported to previous releases
<jjohansen> and I need to get a pull release together for upstream
<jdstrand> jjohansen: if you haven't already, you might sync with tyhicks re overlayfs-- afaik, it is deprioritized
<jjohansen> just some basic fixes, not the big push of the new stuff
<jjohansen> jdstrand: yes, this was in response to a question from asac, I'm not saying we are going to do overlayfs work, just have a better understanding of what is left to be done
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> I knew about the question-- I just wasn't sure of the priority relative to the wtacking bug fixes
<jjohansen> it looks like the overlayfs side landed most of what we need, I need to play with it some more and figure out the best way on the apparmor end
<jdstrand> stacking*
<jdstrand> interesting
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me, sarnold you are up
<sarnold> i'm on community this week; it looks like xerces-x and xml-security-c are at the top of the reviews lane in trello; if those look like I think they look like, that'll probably be it for me for the week
<sarnold> it'd be fun to do some apparmor patch reviews too
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I spent some time improving automated tests in Oxide last week. I expect to be carrying on with that this week - I want to add integration tests for vibration, the HTML Screen interface and notifications
<chrisccoulson> I also plan to release Oxide 1.13.10
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'd like to make a start on bug 1547102, but it's a short week for me
<ubottu> bug 1547102 in Oxide "Support switching between mobile and desktop scrollbars on converged devices" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547102
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<jdstrand> sarnold: fyi, please sync with tyhicks tomorrow to verify the lane is properly ordered. I know the server time was asking for certain things (might have been those, not sure)
<jdstrand> sarnold: but certainly feel free to act on the lane ordering in his absense
<jdstrand> absence*
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<sarnold> jdstrand: yeah, I think he mentioned to stgr aber lsat week that the top of the lane ought to be alright
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ziproxy.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/nagstamon.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ruby-rest-client.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mpack.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python-soappy.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  4 16:54:46 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-04-16.36.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-04-05
<teward> o/
<kickinz1> o/
<nacc> o/
<rbasak> o/
<gaughen> okay it's me today
<teward> gaughen: i was about to ping too :)
<gaughen> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  5 16:01:11 2016 UTC.  The chair is gaughen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rharper> \o
<teward> o/
<gaughen> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<matsubara> o/
<gaughen> two actions points from last week
<gaughen> jgrimm to update/clean up blueprint
<gaughen> jgrimm-afk, ^^
<gaughen> any update on that?
<teward> gaughen: he's not here,
<teward> gaughen: he's apologized for his absence, per the agenda page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<gaughen> okay then, it stays on the list for next week. blueprints always needing love.
<caribou> o/
<gaughen> caribou to investigate if kickin's clamav merge should land
<caribou> gaughen: we've decided to postpone until Y
<gaughen> k
<gaughen> so I'll remove the action item and note the plan.
<gaughen> that's it for action items from last week
<gaughen> #topic Xenial Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Xenial Development
<gaughen> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<gaughen> Xenial Release is coming!
<teward> yes it is!  final freeze is next week
<gaughen> thank you teward!
<gaughen> #subtopic Release Bugs
<gaughen> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> late o/
 * gaughen gives cpaelzer a look
<gaughen> any bugs that we need to touch on?
<gaughen> and I guess really the question is - do any of those High bugs need to be resolved for Xenial GA?
<cpaelzer> we are still in triaging a lot of things that didn't get a proper look
<cpaelzer> and even that goes slow
<cpaelzer> so I'd expect http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server to grow
<cpaelzer> part of that is identifying what needs to get in before GA
<gaughen> cpaelzer, anything on the list we need to tlak about today?
<cpaelzer> not yet
<gaughen> k I'll keep going
<cpaelzer> it is a team effort and all are overloaded, so go on
<teward> got a for-the-record note on nginx in Xenial, if you can give me two minutes under Xenial Devel topic.
<teward> (unrelated to current subtopic)
<gaughen> anything else worth noting about the upcoming release - teward, cpaelzer,
<teward> nginx 1.9.14 was released upstream today; it's on my list to package and try and get it into Xenial.  HTTP/2 support was OK'd by the Security team, so we'll have HTTP/2 in Xenial as we hoped to
<cpaelzer> teward: yeah
<cpaelzer> great
<gaughen> anything else? else I'm moving on
<gaughen> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<teward> hopefully nothing else needs landed by FinalFreeze but a version change bump to make it match NGINX Stable version strings, but that's not something i can immediately check on
<caribou> gaughen: nothing much, a few sponsored uploads
<gaughen> thanks caribou
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<matsubara> gaughen, nothing to report.
<gaughen> fabulous. Thanks matsubara
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Nothing to bring up from the kernel side
<gaughen> smb, okely dokely
<gaughen> thanks!
<gaughen> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<gaughen> anybody know of any noteworthy call for papers?
<gaughen> ....
<gaughen> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<gaughen> Release Party?
<gaughen> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<gaughen> teward, cpaelzer, rharper, smoser anything else you all want to talk about?
<gaughen> it's open mic time
<cpaelzer> openMic: how can it be that you lead the meating and it is the first mentioning of a party in months?
<teward> heheh
<gaughen> ;-) priorities cpaelzer
<teward> anyways, Y-series prep for nginx, i'll need assists from the server team and beyond.
<rharper> hehe
<teward> nginx dynamic module support may roll in from Debian
<teward> and there's going to be a hell-storm of tasks for that
<gaughen> ooh, a hell-storm. that's pretty damn serious. I like it.
<teward> but i'll put a call out on the server ML after Y-series opens and I evaluate what needs merged if anything
<cpaelzer> teward: what is it you need then - testing these things?
<cpaelzer> or packaging all the plugins
<teward> cpaelzer: testing, and help determining what's in main, universe.
<cpaelzer> ok, going via the ML sounds like the best start
<teward> Security team is going to get a poke from me then, too, I want a review before I actually bring things in, but that's a Y-series-opener task
<teward> since i have to followup with Debian anyways
<teward> sarnold and rbasak both have been briefed on the upcoming storm for nginx, it's going to be a massive change.
<teward> not yet landed in Debian, but it'll be coming in Y-series most likely
<teward> again, i'll put out a call for help on the ML then :)
<teward> </done>
<gaughen> :-)
<gaughen> all right then, on to the next and final topic
<gaughen> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<gaughen> next week, same time, same place, different chair
<gaughen> it's arosales next week!
<gaughen> thank you!
<gaughen> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  5 16:15:31 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-05-16.01.moin.txt
<gaughen> done and done.
<teward> thanks!
<kickinz1> Thanks!
<caribou> thanks gaughen!
<gaughen> you are all very welcome! now get planning a release party!
<teward> gaughen: lots of work first heh
<teward> :P
<cpaelzer> thanks gaughen
<arosales> gaughen: thanks for the reminder :-)
<rharper> mmm beer
<hallyn> ^ that's rharper 5pm every day
<teward> heheh
<rharper> *cough* 5pm, err, yeah, 5pm
<hallyn> would be me too in his place
<hallyn> i saw the barrel on fb!
<rharper> not fb
<rharper> but yes
<hallyn> somesuch
<rharper> there may be multiple barrels
<rharper> and a shed
<rharper> and a few taps or 9
<cpaelzer> too much beer, I need to leave ... thirsty
<cpaelzer> \o
<hallyn> oh i missed that we'd end-meeting'd :)
<hallyn> \o
<teward> \o
<rharper> heh
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-04-07
<robru> o/
<sil2100> \o (waving a bit early!)
<caribou> ~o~
<pitti> caribou: ooh, a new waving style!
<pitti> ,o/^
<cyphermox> >.<
<pitti> cyphermox: that looks more like a splatter movie than waving âº
<slangasek> is it a cloudier style?
<barry> is it a sign that it's raining really hard here today? :)
<slangasek> so then!
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  7 15:03:03 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<infinity> Sorry, was distracted.
<cyphermox> â
<pitti> ð¥ here !
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk)
<slangasek> chiluk robru cyphermox slangasek pitti tdaitx bdmurray xnox barry sil2100 infinity caribou doko
<xnox> hello =)
<slangasek> chiluk: hi! anything for us this morning?
<chiluk> sorry none slangasek...
<slangasek> chiluk: â
<slangasek> robru:
<robru> lp:cupstream2distro
<robru> * made all vivid landings point at overlay
<robru> * new GLES class for handling qtmir, qtubuntu, and ubuntu-ui-toolkit. Packaging is now inlined in trunks to hopefully reduce drift between branches.
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> * hid dest ppa field because it's not used at the moment
<robru> * reviewed britney fix from colin
<robru> lp:location-service
<robru> * Updated to new bileto_pre_release_hook
<robru> (done)
<slangasek> cyphermox: can you hold the umbrella with one hand and type with the other? :)
<cyphermox> slangasek: s/umbrella/shovel/  yes
<cyphermox> MIR:
<cyphermox> - review barbican (bug LP: #1543754)
<cyphermox> - review python-pykmip (bug LP: #1543754)
<cyphermox> xenial:
<cyphermox> - VT switching in the only-ubiquity case (bug LP: #1567194)
<slangasek> you're shoveling the clouds?  I think I see a problem with your strategy
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1543754 in python-pykmip (Ubuntu) "[MIR] barbican, python-pykmip" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1567194 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Unable to switch to console/ttys from ubiquity" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1567194
<cyphermox>  - debugging ltrace on ppc64el (bug LP: #1547152)
<cyphermox>   - backporting a number of ppc patches from upstream
<cyphermox> - debugging swedish keyboard in ubiquity (bug LP: #1549529)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1547152 in ltrace (Ubuntu) "ltrace is throwing segfault while running any of the userspace command" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547152
<cyphermox> - tpm2-tss unit for resourcemgr
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1549529 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "The keyboard is still installed as US-English even if another language is selected during the installation" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1549529
<cyphermox> - udisks2 partition creation fix (bug LP: #1460602)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1460602 in udisks2 (Debian) "Erasing disk failed: Error wiping newly created partition" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1460602
<cyphermox> Â±other stuff:
<cyphermox> - helped roaksoax with maas-region-controller debconf magic
<cyphermox> - more NM landing discussion with Tony
<cyphermox> - reviewing ibmpmlinux (bug LP: #1448092)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1448092 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] ibmpmlinux" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448092
<cyphermox> - ubuntu-cpc cdimage support
<cyphermox> (done â)
<cyphermox> slangasek: umbrelling clouds wouldn't work any better anyway, btw.
<slangasek>  * administrivia for team transition
<slangasek>   * sprint planning
<slangasek>  * completed the php5->7 transition, php5 is removed from xenial as of yesterday
<slangasek>  * nudging various other proposed-migration blockages (autopkgtest retries, etc)
<slangasek>  * freeze review (new+unapproved) for juju2; asked for a reupload of juju-core-1 with some packaging changes prior to NEW accept
<slangasek>  * assessing remaining 16.04 blockers
<slangasek> (done)
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - Fix hanging xenial image builds
<pitti>  - Fix nested QEMU on AMD CPUs (debugged on smoser's machine)
<pitti>  - britney: Don't show tested package version (which is often wrong) on excuse lines with only "in progress" tests
<pitti> systemd:
<pitti>  - Add autopkgtest for udev, running the upstream tests
<pitti>  - Avoid polkit warnings from maintainer scripts (#1565617)
<pitti>  - Fix wrong uint32 dbus handling on big-endian
<pitti>  - Check status of resource limits with unified cgroup hierarchy (PR#2964)
<pitti>  - merge with Debian to pick up some fixes
<pitti>  - udev: Fix SIGKILL spee when running under upstart (#1555237)
<pitti>  - udev: Fix crash with large number of tags (#1564976) and add test
<pitti>  - Investigate wrong device naming with ibmveth (#1561096), ongoing
<pitti> distro:
<pitti>  - cron: Fix tâ x upgrade (#1566333)
<pitti>  - apport: Backport more precise python traceback handling to trusty (#989819), fix invalid key name generation in hookutils (#1566975)
<pitti>  - fontconfig: discuss update to new version with seb128 and GunnarHj, sponsor new upload (#1556457)
<pitti>  - fix FTBFS: python-cliff, python-glance-store, swedish, ispell, dict-{nr,ns,st,tn,ts,xh}
<pitti>  - Investigate hanging adt-buildvm-ubuntu-cloud due to lxd (#1566253)
<pitti>  other:
<pitti>  - Review proposed openssl FIPS change, and review the > 500 kB patch, argh (#1553309)
<pitti>  - Help Diogo with getting access to Scalingstack instance for debugging open-iscsi tests
<pitti>  - Meeting with Jamie about snappy device assignment
<pitti>  - Review/discuss default naming policy for USB network devices
<pitti>  - Travel prep for cloud sprint in Austin
<pitti>  - Discuss improving the lxd debconfery with stgraber
<pitti> EOT
<pitti> slangasek: oh, php5 is gone? yay! congrats (to nacc too)
<xnox> bug #1561096
<tdaitx> * JCK 8
<tdaitx>    - Ran all interactive tests; everything now passes but JDialog tests: the JDialogs are blank yellow instead of the usual gray, no components in it show up as expected (buttons, menu); the workaround is to move the JDialog around a lot and put other windows on top of it, no fix found as of now
<tdaitx>    - Last fixes: getting a few additional packages in (cups, nautilus, leafpad), getting pulseaudio to tunnel sound through SSH and to play beeps (by loading the right sample and setting its x11 bell module)
<tdaitx>    - Down to about 6 failures in total; 1 previous SSL errors that I was debugging was "fixed" by a new exclusion list (ie. test is now ignored); the other failures seem to be an error on the JCK itself (missing service files and pre-compiled classes from the jck)
<tdaitx> * JCK 7
<ubottu> bug 1561096 in systemd (Ubuntu Xenial) "STC850:Brazos:Br16:Br16p05: Network ethernet port name changed under Ubuntu 16.04 with added adapters (ibmveth)" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1561096
<tdaitx>    - Preparing to run all interactive tests
<tdaitx> (done)
<bdmurray> review of BucketMetadata changes
<bdmurray> discussion with seelaman re: decomissioning ps3 ET
<bdmurray> used import_bugs to import apport duplicates db info into real cassandra
<bdmurray> importing subscribed packages to real cassandra
<bdmurray> documented DSE (real) cassandra migration steps
<slangasek> pitti: yeah, we were down to < 10 revdeps and half of them were in the mysql-5.7 transition (also landed last night), so I pulled it
<bdmurray> irc discussion with stub regarding database migration
<bdmurray> ran rebuild_bucket_versions_count so its current
<bdmurray> resolved issues with ubuntu-release-upgrader (demotions.py and test failures)
<bdmurray> resolved update-manager FTBFS
<bdmurray> opened some MIR bug reports
<bdmurray> â done
<xnox> installer fixes and s390-tools update: s390-dasd 390-zfcp dbconfig-common 390-tools zipl-installer choose-mirror debian-installer hw-detect
<xnox> working on validated component fetching in live-installer https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/live-installer/+bug/1565889
<xnox> netcfg vlan patch is almost complete reviews at https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=433568#163 would be appreciated
<xnox> todo: gpg-agent fixes, boost-dev fix
<ubottu> Error: malone bug 1565889 not found
<xnox> crashing bluefin kernel live-patching sprint, at the same time got confirmation as to why s390x kernel is big, and what needs doing to enable zfcpdump kernel
<ubottu> Debian bug 433568 in netcfg "add vlan support" [Wishlist,Open]
<xnox> done
<barry> short week due to vacation
<barry> various sprint travel planning
<barry> python-debian 0.1.27ubuntu2 (FTBFS), claws-mail 3.13.2-1ubuntu1 (debian merge)
<barry> LP: #1518955 (system-image client rotate, train & test)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1518955 in system-image (Ubuntu) "System image client log file grows indefinitely" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1518955
<barry> test gitification of si server repo
<barry> LP: #1566878; LP: #1566975; gdebi FTBFS (patches to mvo; will sync asap)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1566878 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Alt-backtick regression" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566878
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1566975 in apport (Ubuntu) "AssertionError on .proc.driver.nvidia.gpus.0000:01:00.0" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566975
<barry> --done--
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - Identifying and fixing issue with certain translations missing in ubuntu-touch
<sil2100> - Manually hacking around on snakefruit to spit out updated translations
<sil2100> - OTA-10:
<sil2100>   * Snapshotting the images
<sil2100>   * Preparing the release notes, generating the commitlogs
<caribou> xnox: can you keep me in the loop for zfcpdump bits, I'm also working on it
<sil2100>   * Pushing on the mako OTA-10 blocker, preparing for mako-only re-spin
<sil2100>   * Promoting krillin, vegetahd and arale images
<sil2100> - Lots of manual system-image work for various teams (turbo, frieza)
<sil2100> - Familiarizing with the DMB duties
<sil2100> - Working and testing an ubuntu-touch-session tweak for customized audio playback
<sil2100> - Writing few more tests for system-image server testability branch
<sil2100> - Discussions about the future: OTA-11, switch to xenial and landing scheme with Y open
<xnox> caribou, ack.
<sil2100> - Some thoughts on making our release process more flexible
<sil2100> - Added options to do rootfs-rootfs based deltas in generate-commitlog
<sil2100> (done)
<infinity>  - working on updates to all the IBM utilities
<infinity>  - investigating glibc bugs filed since 2.23
<infinity>  - finished getting powerpc cloud images ready for scalingstack
<infinity>  - reviewing ubuntu-cdimage merge proposals
<infinity>  - lots and lots of queue reviews
<infinity>  - random bugfixes
<infinity>  - archive gardening for priority/arch mismatches
<infinity>  - some kernel SRU manglement
<infinity>  - patch piloting
<infinity> (done)
<caribou>  Bugfix :
<caribou>  - iSCSI boot installation
<caribou>    work as expected
<caribou>  - Apache 2.4.18(xenial) backport (LP: #1335068)
<caribou>    pre-depend on dpkg makes it difficult, might revert to 2.4.9
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1335068 in trusty-backports "Please backport apache2 2.4.18-1ubuntu1 (main) from Xenial" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1335068
<caribou> Development work:
<caribou>  - LP: #1546260 - kexec-tools purgatory failure on PowerPC64
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1546260 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1546260). The error has been logged
<caribou>    Uploaded
<caribou>  - Lp1528101 - vm.min_free_kbytes crash issues
<caribou>    More discussions
<caribou>  - Various sponsoring : iproute2, corosync
<caribou>  Misc:
<caribou>  - Interviews
<caribou>  - Ubuntu Server Guide contributions
<caribou>    iSCSI install
<caribou>    Remote kdump functionality
<caribou> â Done
<slangasek> sil2100: and congrats on joining the DMB :)
<sil2100> Thanks :)
<slangasek> alright, and I believe this mail I haven't read yet in my inbox includes doko's apologies
<slangasek> (it does)
<slangasek> so that's everyone
<slangasek> any questions?
<caribou> I was wondering if it could be a good thing to mention the remote kernel dump functionality in Xenial's Release Notes
 * sil2100 will look into the failures ASAP as well
<caribou> I just added the details in the Server Guide for Xenial
<infinity> caribou: It's a wiki, add things if you want under the right heading (perhaps new server features, ish)
<caribou> infinity: ok, will do
<infinity> caribou: If too many people add too much to the release notes, it's much easier for me to delete the useless points than it is to invent some.
<xnox> caribou, yeap added to release notes. wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes or some such.
<xnox> *add it to
<xnox> cyphermox, will you review https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=433568#163 & https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/live-installer/+bug/1565889 =)
<ubottu> Debian bug 433568 in netcfg "add vlan support" [Wishlist,Open]
<ubottu> Error: malone bug 1565889 not found
<xnox> hope to land both into xenial....
<cyphermox> yep, added it to the list
<xnox> cyphermox, \o/ win
<cyphermox> I can't reach your live-installer bug though
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else today?
<pitti> who's coming to the cloud sprint, OOI?
<pitti> o/
<infinity> Moi.
<infinity> Need to book today.
<infinity> I'll take any excuse to travel closer to a taco stand.
<slangasek> doko wants to remind us that the build failures in main that are reported by the rebuild test are real and should be fixed: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20160401-xenial.html
<barry> o/ but not til late tuesday
<sil2100> I'll be looking at those tomorrow possibly to help out
<pitti> if anyone can make sense of/reproduce the gnupg-doc one, please give me a shout
<pitti> neither can I reproduce this nor does the log actually say what's wrong
 * infinity shouts at pitti.
<slangasek> could it be related to the new gnupg2?
<pitti> well, this must be something specific to the (re)build environment
<pitti> and I doubt that building docs is very sensitive to the buildds running on trusty kernel and my laptop on xenial's
<pitti> (I haven't tried running under a trusty kernel, though)
<pitti> infinity: oh, any details?
<infinity> pitti: No, I just wanted to shout at you.
<pitti> infinity: ok, point -- I didn't say "if and only if"
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  7 15:29:20 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-07-15.03.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks :)
<caribou> thanks!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<barry> thanks!
<valorie> hmmm, I thought I could at least look in on the meeting until we have to leave -- where is the UCC?
<sarnold> valorie: is this the meeting you're looking for? http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-07-15.03.moin.txt
<valorie> no, this is with ubuntu community council
<valorie> supposed to be now
<sarnold> aha :)
<mhall119> o/ sorry everyone, it looks like we all forgot about today's meeting
 * mhall119 is still thinking it's wednesday
<mhall119> #startmeeting Community Council Checkins
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  7 17:28:32 2016 UTC.  The chair is mhall119. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Checkins Meeting | Current topic:
<mhall119> czajkowski marcoceppi hggdh sgclark meeting
<sgclark> present
<mhall119> hi valorie, anyone else from Kubuntu here?
<marcoceppi> o/
<sgclark> well technically I am on vacation , so I forgive myself for forgetting lol
<mhall119> ahoneybun yofel are either of you around?
<mhall119> sgclark: you're on IRC too much for vacation :)
<sgclark> yeah I know. I get the dirty looks from family
<mhall119> so we don't have a specific topic for this meeting, it's mostly so that we can checkin and see (A) how things are running in Kubuntu and (B) if there is anything the CC can do to help or improve things
<mhall119> #topic Kubuntu Council checkin
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Checkins Meeting | Current topic: Kubuntu Council checkin
<mhall119> valorie: yofel ahoneybun have you had any new Kubuntu Members apply during the last development cycle?
<ovidiu-florin> hello world
<mhall119> hey ovidiu-florin
<mhall119> #chair marcoceppi sgclark
<meetingology> Current chairs: marcoceppi mhall119 sgclark
 * sgclark puts on kubuntu hat . clivejo is our super awesome new member
 * sgclark puts on ucc hat
<mhall119> I've seen him doing a lot, very cool
<mhall119> how is the general interest and motivational levels within Kubuntu, are they starting to come back?
 * ogra_ wonders if these kubuntu hats are made out of plasma
 * sgclark giggles
<ogra_> :)
<ovidiu-florin> interest fluctuates as far as I can see
 * sgclark puts on kubuntu hat
<sgclark> I think we can go somewhere with the packaging parties, but alas we are few and only volunteers with limited time.
<sgclark> so it is difficult to keep up the momentum
 * sgclark puts on ucc hat
<mhall119> between the Kubuntu podcast and Kubuntu parties, it seems there is more social and community activity happening
<ovidiu-florin> and the support channel is very active
<mhall119> is there anything the CC can do to help promote Kubuntu, either through governance or outreach?
<ovidiu-florin> are there representatives here from other flavors?
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: not today, only Kubuntu was on the schedule
<ovidiu-florin> ok, thanks
<mhall119> well, there might be, but not specifically for this
<sgclark> Yeah think the packaging parties needs to be an *buntu overall activity
<ovidiu-florin> maybe some unification for the packages
<sgclark> would be beneficial to everyone
<ovidiu-florin> documentation and work
<mhall119> sgclark: how did the packaging party work? was it all online?
<ovidiu-florin> there was discussion at some point about moving the ubuntu wiki from moin moin to mediawiki. Did that happen?
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: specifically which packages?
<sgclark> well it is still a WIP, we are experimenting
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: no, we implemented some stop-gap measures to keep moin running for the short term
<mhall119> long-term plans for the wiki are still being discussed, and I think waiting for information from IS
<sgclark> mhall119: but yes it is all online. we tried hangouts but they were too limited. So now we are playing with Big blue button
<mhall119> sgclark: we can coordinate a wider community participation, is there another one scheduled already?
<sgclark> and as far as package ovidiu-florin the only way we will survive without a massive jump in contributors is syncing most to debian.
<sgclark> mhall119: yeah I will have to get that date for you.
<ovidiu-florin> perhaps sgclark can correct me if I'm wrong, but our pagaging documentation right now, and also the workflow/pipeline are kind of scattered, and it's particularly dificult for newcommers to get involved
<mhall119> thanks sgclark
<sgclark> ovidiu-florin: that will change when we move back to launchpad.
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: you mean http://packaging.ubuntu.com/ ?
<mhall119> or does Kubuntu have separate packaging docs
<sgclark> mhall119: we are on debian git atm, there is nothing the wider community can do right now..
<mhall119> ok
<ovidiu-florin> they can send patches via email....
<sgclark> that will change though. and when that happens we can come back to this.
<ovidiu-florin> and wait
<mhall119> ok, can you also get the community team at canonical involved?
<mhall119> we can all three take on different parts of this
<ovidiu-florin> sgclark: I'm interested in how is the migration back to launchpad going. Can you tell me more about it? pelase :D
<mhall119> is there anyone from the Membership Board here? If so, we can move the kubuntu discussions to another channel or email
<sgclark> ovidiu-florin: I thought yofel was going to do it. Clearly a team meeting is in order, but he has been super busy with life and stuff. Again we are back to a handful of volunteers trying to do a full time team job.
<sgclark> yeah we are getting off track, sorry
<mhall119> sgclark: no, just short on time because we started so late
 * ovidiu-florin is unsure now what the track is 
<mhall119> if there's nobody from the membership board here for their meeting, we can use the rest of the time for kubuntu
<ovidiu-florin> mhall119: are you the only one here from the UCC? or the others are very very silent?
 * sgclark is on the ucc
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: sgclark is here and on vacation at the same time
<mhall119> in some kind of quantum super-position
 * sgclark giggles
<mhall119> marcoceppi is here too, but I suspect also busy with work stuff
 * ovidiu-florin doesn't like that sgclark doesn't rest properly
<marcoceppi> hello!
<marcoceppi> I can invite a few more members
<sgclark> ovidiu-florin: in short, the dev side of things for Kubuntu still needs a ton of work.
<mhall119> marcoceppi: are you here for the membership board?
<marcoceppi> I am now
<mhall119> marcoceppi: ok, let's wrap up the kubuntu topic first and then we'll pick up the membership board
<marcoceppi> mhall119: sounds good
 * sgclark puts back on ucc hat
<mhall119> sgclark: ovidiu-florin: let's keep in touch about hosting a community-wide packaging party
 * marcoceppi shuffles through hats
<sgclark> mhall119: sounds good, I will start an email thread.
<mhall119> and then if there's anything we can do to help with the Launchpad transition, let us know, but I suspect that's going to be more technical than the CC usually gets involved in
<ovidiu-florin> mhall119: anyone interested can join our next kubuntu party
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: when is it?
<mhall119> Apr 15, right?
<ovidiu-florin> mhall119: https://plus.google.com/events/cd5cm4806f1sp8mc7gkasvv971o?authkey=CJ3YqNSWhK6rCg
<ovidiu-florin> timezone rezolved, that way :P
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: I can attend some of it
<mhall119> ok, thanks Kubuntu team!
<mhall119> #topic Ubuntu Membership Board checkin
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council Checkins Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Membership Board checkin
<mhall119> alright marcoceppi, got your membership board hat?
<Kilos> o/
<mhall119> so we only have a few minutes, apologies again for us forgetting about this meeting and starting late
<mhall119> how have the membership applications been over the last cycle? Are they increasing,decreasing, holding steady?
<Kilos> holding steady imo
<Kilos> 2 applicants for tonights meeting in 2 hours time
<mhall119> are they getting good support and testimonials from exiting members?
<Kilos> i still need to check the second applicants info but first one is fine
<Kilos> and belkinsa have voted via email already as she cant make it tonight
<Kilos> s/have/has
<mhall119> are there any obstacles people are facing? Or reasons that might be keeping qualified people from applying?
<Kilos> i think everything is working well mhall119 except for peeps applying from areas where the locos are kinda dead or moved to facebook
<Kilos> belkinsa and i are working out way through them slowly
<mhall119> locos moved to facebook, or the people have?
<Kilos> places like bangladesh get free FB so everyone flocked there
<Kilos> the people
<Kilos> sorry
<mhall119> and is that making it difficult to verify somebody's activity?
<Kilos> we just struggled to get the leader to return to irc and now he is there daily and will apply for reverification as soon as he has sorted all info on what they have been doing on facebook
<Kilos> virtually same support irc gives just on facebook
<Kilos> peeps seem to be addicted to fb
<sgclark> yes and that seems a reasonable end user outreach platform
<mhall119> yeah, and I think we should accomodate FB activity as much as possible
<sgclark> yes
<sgclark> not everyone likes irc
<Kilos> they are 30 strong on fb
<Kilos> 340 sorry
<sgclark> impressive
<Kilos> so very strong
<mhall119> yeah, definitely can't ignore that
<mhall119> Kilos: so what is the difficult the membership board is facing because of this?
<Kilos> no difficulty from the boards side
<mhall119> oh, ok, I misunderstood you earlier then
<mhall119> is there anything the CC can do for the board? Either with Facebook activity or otherwise?
<Kilos> just the last applicant tried to apply the traditional way without and support or guidance
<mhall119> Kilos: oh, I see
<Kilos> there were many applicants that had been waiting for up to 2 years to be approved but no one checked LP
<Kilos> now thats sorted
<sgclark> lp does not notify?
<mhall119> that's good
<Kilos> i dont think the membership board is having any problems
<Kilos> marcoceppi ??
<Kilos> we have just added helping the loco council to revive locos
<marcoceppi> Kilos: I don't think so either, some language barriers at time
<marcoceppi> but nothing major
<mhall119> Kilos: I'm happy to hear that you're working with the LC, locos can use all the help we can give them
<Kilos> my pleasure
<sgclark> yes, thank you
<mhall119> thank you Kilos and marcoceppi
<mhall119> and thanks again to the Kubuntu council
<Kilos> ty guys
<mhall119> if you need us for anything else, you know where to find us :)
<sgclark> thanks everyone!
<Kilos> yes thanks
<mhall119> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  7 18:13:30 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-07-17.28.moin.txt
 * sgclark puts on vacation hat
<mhall119> go enjoy your time off sgclark
<sgclark> off to see more family, thanks!
<Kilos> enjoy
<Kilos> evening everyone
<Inoki> Heya
<Kilos> hi Inoki Mister_Q
<jcastro_> hello!
<Inoki> Hey there :)
<Mister_Q> Hi :)
<elacheche_anis> Hey guys:
<toddy> Hi Inoki
<toddy> Hi Mister_Q
<marcoceppi> #startmeeting 2000 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  7 20:01:42 2016 UTC.  The chair is marcoceppi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2000 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<elacheche_anis>  Mister_Q, Inoki will start in a sec
<marcoceppi> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 2000 UTC meeting for April 7, 2016.
<marcoceppi> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<marcoceppi> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<marcoceppi> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<marcoceppi> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<marcoceppi> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<marcoceppi> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers amounts to at least +1, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<marcoceppi> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<marcoceppi> #voters marcoceppi jcastro_ elacheche_anis Kilos ahoneybun belkinsa hggdh PabloRubianes popey toddy wxl
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: belkinsa
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos PabloRubianes ahoneybun belkinsa elacheche_anis hggdh jcastro_ marcoceppi popey toddy wxl
<Kilos> o/
<elacheche_anis> o/
<toddy> o/
<jcastro_> o/
<marcoceppi> Now, without any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<Kilos> belkinsa apologised guys
<Kilos> other commitments
<marcoceppi> #topic Mister_Q
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2000 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Mister_Q
<Kilos> and hggdh
<marcoceppi> Mister_Q: please introduce yourself and provide a link to your entry!
<Mister_Q> My name is Marius Quabeck. I'm 21 years old, live in Germany and I have been using Ubuntu since 2011.
<Mister_Q> I spend most of my "Ubuntu time" writing blog articels about Ubuntu Phone/Desktop/Convergence on ubuntufun<dot>de ,managing its community and producing a podcast.
<Mister_Q> I'm also part of the UbuCon Europe & UbuContest organising team. My LP is https://launchpad.net/~misterq and my Wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mister_Q .
<jcastro_> Are you in a Local Team?
<Mister_Q> Not yet but I'm thinking about joining the german loco team
<toddy> I think I can add you Mister_Q
<Mister_Q> cool :)
<toddy> You help us by the UbuCon in Essen, I think
<Mister_Q> yes
<toddy> Mister_Q: now you are a member :)
<toddy> of the loco team
<jcastro_> heh, clever
<Mister_Q> thanks toddy
<tcarrondo> go go Mister_Q
<elacheche_anis> Mister_Q: Technical contributions are important, but it's important to be part of the loco as well :D
<marcoceppi> Okay, any other questions? Anyone here for support?
<elacheche_anis> I think tcarrondo is here to support Mister_Q, right?
<tcarrondo> Yep
<marcoceppi> #vote Mister_Q
<meetingology> Please vote on: Mister_Q
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<tcarrondo> cannot stay long
<tcarrondo> But I should pass by
<Kilos> +1 nice work. keep it up
<meetingology> +1 nice work. keep it up received from Kilos
<marcoceppi> +1 great contributions!
<meetingology> +1 great contributions! received from marcoceppi
<jcastro_> +1 no brainer!
<meetingology> +1 no brainer! received from jcastro_
<hggdh> +1 indeed
<tcarrondo> Mister_Q: +1
<meetingology> +1 indeed received from hggdh
<toddy> +1 - Thank you for your work and I hope to see you in Essen
<meetingology> +1 - Thank you for your work and I hope to see you in Essen received from toddy
<elacheche_anis> +1 Keep the good work, and don't forget about the LoCo :)
<meetingology> +1 Keep the good work, and don't forget about the LoCo :) received from elacheche_anis
<marcoceppi> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Mister_Q
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<jcastro_> \o/
<elacheche_anis> Congrats Mister_Q
<toddy> congrats Mister_Q
<Mister_Q> thanks guys \o/ :)
<Kilos> congratulations Mister_Q and welcome aboard
<marcoceppi> Next up!
<tcarrondo> congrats Mister_Q
<marcoceppi> #topic Inoki
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2000 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Inoki
<marcoceppi> Inoki: please introduce yourself and provide a link to your entry!
<Inoki> Hello! I'm Patrik, I'm one of the designers of Ubuntu GNOME, a member of the Marketing Team (formerly Artwork and Design) since Nov. 2014.
<Inoki> I've been using Ubuntu since around 2010 and I strongly believe in the concept and philosophy that is Ubuntu.
<Inoki> I'm a graphic designer by degree and my work is my passion! :)
<Inoki> My Wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Inoki and my Launchpad is https://launchpad.net/~inoki
<jcastro_> 2010? How come it took 7 years for you to apply?
<Inoki> :D
<Inoki> Well... I was just a user, spreading the word, now I'm a contributor. And a very active one :)
<Kilos> yes that should be interesting to hear
<elacheche_anis> I think Ali encouraged you to apply now x)
<Inoki> Both Tim and Ali :)
<toddy> very cute work: https://dribbble.com/shots/2599217-ubuntugnome-org-the-redesign-V2-1
<elacheche_anis> :)
<Inoki> Thank you!
<Inoki> We're hard at work. I love my team! :D
<elacheche_anis> Inoki: Do you contribute to your LoCo?
<Inoki> I don't know if we actually have one in Slovakia
<Inoki> Or if it's active
<marcoceppi> yet ;)
<Inoki> But if given the opportunity, sure :)
<elacheche_anis> Inoki: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-sk/ Try to find out :D
<Kilos> Inoki get one going or motivate the old one
<elacheche_anis> And help them verify the LoCo and grow it :)
<Inoki> elacheche_anis: will do! :)
<elacheche_anis> :)
<Kilos> its all about team work
<toddy> :)
<Inoki> For now, I'm there for my guys and we will make Ubuntu GNOME awesome! :)
<Inoki> We're, like Ali says, a family :)
<marcoceppi> Okay, any other questions or comments?
<Kilos> thats how your whole loco should be
<Kilos> one happy fmily
<Kilos> family
<marcoceppi> #vote Inoki
<meetingology> Please vote on: Inoki
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Inoki> I'm a guy who believes in the concept of Unity more than anything else :) I will help where I can, when I can :)
<jcastro_> +1 love the work you all are doing for GNOMErs everywhere!
<meetingology> +1 love the work you all are doing for GNOMErs everywhere! received from jcastro_
<marcoceppi> +1 amazing work, keep up the great work!
<meetingology> +1 amazing work, keep up the great work! received from marcoceppi
<toddy> +1 - very nice work. I love it.
<meetingology> +1 - very nice work. I love it. received from toddy
<Kilos> +1 keep it up
<meetingology> +1 keep it up received from Kilos
<hggdh> +1 keep on the good work!
<meetingology> +1 keep on the good work! received from hggdh
<elacheche_anis> +1, keep the good work.. It's always good to hear that the community think about members as family.. :)
<meetingology> +1, keep the good work.. It's always good to hear that the community think about members as family.. :) received from elacheche_anis
<wxl> +1 keep it up!
<meetingology> +1 keep it up! received from wxl
<marcoceppi> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Inoki
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<marcoceppi> Welcome!
<toddy> congrats Inoki
<marcoceppi> is there any other business?
<wxl> congrats Inoki
<Inoki> THANK YOU! :D
<elacheche_anis> Congrats Inoki :)
<Kilos> Inoki encourage others to apply as well
<Inoki> Sure will do, more are coming! Alfredo, Gaurav (our web dev)
<Kilos> congratulations and welcome aboard
<Inoki> Thank you everyone! A true honour! :)
<Kilos> its an honour having you on board
<marcoceppi> Thank you meembers for joining, thank you all who attended
<marcoceppi> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  7 20:21:11 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-07-20.01.moin.txt
<Kilos> Mister_Q encourage more from your side as well please
<Kilos> ty marcoceppi
<Mister_Q> Kilos sure :)
<Mister_Q> toddy see you in Essen ! :)
<toddy> yes, Mister_Q :)
<wxl> i/msg tsimonq2 you don't look like an ass
<tsimonq2> O_O
<mhall119> welcome new members!
<wxl> argh
<elacheche_anis> loool wxl
 * tsimonq2 runs and hides
<mhall119> wxl: wrong channel I hope
<Inoki> Thank you mhall119! :)
<wxl> mhall119: yeeah apparently :/
<elacheche_anis> I don't want to ask what's going on wxl tsimonq2 :D #troll
<Mister_Q> thanks mhall119 :) far more excited right now than i could put in words \o/
<mhall119> that / can bite you when it's not in the right place :)
<mhall119> Mister_Q: Inoki: we're very glad to have you :)
<Kilos> :D
<Kilos> all good mhall119
<ahoneybun> sorry marcoceppi I've had a headache the last 3 hours or so and did not see the message
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-04-03
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  3 16:29:57 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Jeremy Bicha (jbicha) provided debdiffs for xenial and yakkety for epiphany-browser (LP: #1661805)
<mdeslaur> \o
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1661805 in epiphany-browser (Ubuntu Yakkety) "Saved passwords for HTTPS sites can be accessed by HTTP sites" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1661805
<tyhicks> Vishnu Naini (visred) provided the debdiff for xenial for ktnef (LP: #1668552)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1668552 in kdepim (Ubuntu Trusty) "KDE Project Security Advisory: ktnef: Directory Traversal" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1668552
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hey
<jdstrand> - short week for me
<jdstrand> - I went through all the store reviews (which lead to unplanned store work) and almost all of the snappy PR reviews last week
<jdstrand> - this week I need to followup on those and get to the console interface PR, which will require quite a bit of investigation
<jdstrand> - kubernetes interface is blocked until I get a response from the reporter, so I plan to respond to feedback to my recent unity7 update PR and have one other profiling fix
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I'm about to release some nagios3 packages
<mdeslaur> and I have an embargoed issue
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll be working on the next round of qemu updates
<mdeslaur> that's it, sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I'm on bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I have an embargoed issue
<sbeattie> I was off most of last week, so catching up on email/discussions etc.
<sbeattie> I'll try to pick up another update this week
<sbeattie> There's also some apparmor and qa-r-t issues I need to poke at.
<sbeattie> That's probably it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> sbeattie: are those apparmor/QRT issues new failures?
<sbeattie> the QRT stuff is semi-new, I'd been letting them slide for a bit.
<sbeattie> apparmor stuff is commenting on some of the mailing list stuff
<tyhicks> sbeattie: if it is a new failure (new as of last week) in a test that sets the profile disable symlink, talk to me because I broke that test and forgot to push the fix for a few days
<tyhicks> ok
<tyhicks> I'm on cve triage this week
<tyhicks> I have an embargoed issue
<tyhicks> I am prepping for 12.04 ESM
<tyhicks> hope to have seccomp patches to send back upstream this week
<tyhicks> someone has been extremely active in upstream ecryptfs bug triage and has even prepared a few merge requests - I really need to spend some time on that this week as well
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I have some catching up to do from being off last week
<jjohansen> and then I need to finish up with the mess from the apparmor patch reverts. The kt has pulled most of the patches back in for the next SRU cycle but I have 5 patches to go through
<jjohansen> valid, or fix and in the case of one make sure the snappy collision has worked its way out before I resubmit it
<jjohansen> I need to take stock of the dconf/gsettings patches
<jjohansen> which I managed to completely avoid last week
<jjohansen> I have upstreaming work todo
<tyhicks> trying to slip in another upstream pull request for 4.12 is a higher prio than dconf/gsettings since it is slipping to z+1
<jjohansen> ack
<jjohansen> and discuss with tyhicks potential solutions to the dominance x rule issue we have in zesty
<jjohansen> that is it for me, sarnold you are up
<sarnold> i'm in the happy place this week
<sarnold> finishing the shadow update and the lasso mir
<sarnold> istr an outstanding patch or two from apparmor left over from last week that I may get to unless someone beats me
<sarnold> then walking down the mir list
<sarnold> that's it for me, no chris coulson on tab complete?
<ratliff> he's on holiday
<sarnold> so perhaps on to ratliff?
<sarnold> good for him :)
<ratliff> I'm in the happy place this week.
<ratliff> I have a number of internal tasks to complete as my first priority.
<ratliff> Then I will investigate adding an option to query by CRD date to ubuntu-table.
<ratliff> I should have time to do at least one update for vivid based touch/core - that is my goal.
<ratliff> back to you, tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/linkchecker.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pywbem.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/inspircd.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/t-coffee.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/runc.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> hmm... I think those runc CVEs are possibly already fixed
<tyhicks> I'll check later
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  3 16:50:50 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-04-03-16.29.moin.txt
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks :)
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-04-04
<jgrimm> o/
<nacc> o/
<powersj> o/
<caribou> \o
<cpaelzer> o/
<nacc> do we need to remind gaughen ?
<nacc> or who is up?
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: already reminded
<jgrimm> nacc, she confirmed
<nacc> ah ok :)
<gaughen> no
<gaughen> I"m here
<jgrimm> \o/
<gaughen> just needed to get the irc commands up
<gaughen> I'm ready now
<gaughen> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  4 16:01:48 2017 UTC.  The chair is gaughen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<smoser> o/
<gaughen> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<gaughen> there are several action points from last week
<gaughen> ACTION: rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has (carried over)
<gaughen> ACTION: smoser to write a release notes entry on cloud-init (ds-identify)
<gaughen> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot
<gaughen> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot
<gaughen> ACTION: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<gaughen> ACTION: rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<gaughen> or some other week
 * nacc still working on the ipv6 entries
<rbasak> mysql triage response page still outstanding; carry over please, sorry.
<smoser> gaughen, you can re-action me.
<cpaelzer> we worked on general triaging updates, but no on the mysql one
<gaughen> so, none of them are ready to remove?
<cpaelzer> once those general updates work well for 4 weeks we will get to annoucne them here
<gaughen> okay, then you will all have the actions for next week
<jgrimm> rharper is out today.  i know he has written v2 yaml support into the cloud-init docs, but not yet in the server/release notes.  please carry that action forward as well
<gaughen> I'm leaving them all!
<gaughen> moving on
<gaughen> #topic Zesty Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Zesty Development
<gaughen> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseSchedule
<gaughen> release is next week!
<gaughen> final freeze is Thursday
<gaughen> that's all I have on that
<gaughen> #subtopic blueprints
<gaughen> #https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-z-server-core
<jgrimm> done
<gaughen> I see lots of lovely dones
<gaughen> some in progress
<jgrimm> anything open has been moved forward to aa series blueprint
<gaughen> moving on
<gaughen> you rock jgrimm
<jgrimm> i'll update the wiki with the new blueprint url
<gaughen> #subtopic Release Bugs
<gaughen> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> nothing to spend time on there i can see
<gaughen> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
<gaughen> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<gaughen> caribou?
<caribou> yep,
<caribou> SRUs looked over by STS :
<caribou> #info SRU pending for : qemu, sssd, ebtables, sosreport, nfs-utils, unattended-upgrades
<jgrimm> caribou anything new in that list?
<cpaelzer>  keepalived (x), qemu (X) completed for me, all others still up in the air
<caribou> jgrimm: yes, unattended-upgrades which is one I'm working on
<caribou> and I'd like to bring your attention on a debian bug I ran over on this one
<caribou> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=797108
<ubottu> Debian bug 797108 in init-system-helpers "init-system-helpers: deb-systemd-helper doesn't remove old links when changing WantedBy= at package upgrade" [Normal,Open]
<caribou> just thought I'd mention it
<caribou> that's all I have
<gaughen> cool, thanks caribou
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<gaughen> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> Last week worked on documenting current state of dep8 and other package level tests for server-team owned packages here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/dep8
<powersj> Filed bugs for a number of bugs for packages that do not have any obvious testing when building. Not perfect in detecting all types of tests, but gives us an idea of possible areas to work on.
<powersj> I also got a mongodb and tomcat7 merge approved. This week I need the tomcat8 merge looked at.
<powersj> Also this week I want to finish a couple cloud-init merges for pylint clean up, get the manual CI launcher job ready, and start in on figuring out how to do auto-landing of git+launchpad jobs. Some curtin job triage as well.
<powersj> questions? comments?
<gaughen> thank you powersj
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<gaughen> not sure we'll have kernel team today as they're sprinting
<jgrimm> ah
<gaughen> so I'll give it one more second and then I'm moving on
<gaughen> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
<gaughen> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<jgrimm> nada
<gaughen> not sure there's anything worth noting
<gaughen> moving o
<gaughen> n
<gaughen> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jgrimm> nacc, bug squashing day
<gaughen> oooh, an event!
<nacc> yep, tomorrow
<nacc> USBSD #2
<gaughen> how did the first one go?
<jgrimm> any prep or help needed?
<nacc> gaughen: pretty well, mostly team members rather than community
<nacc> gaughen: but sets a good precedent
<gaughen> agreed
<nacc> jgrimm: nothing right now, i'll send another reminder email today with link to the pad, etc
<gaughen> awesome
<cpaelzer> nacc: two of those community which I brought in still work on their bugs
<cpaelzer> which is great
<nacc> yes, cpaelzer had the most success :)
 * gaughen high fives cpaelzer 
<gaughen> okay, I'm moving on
<gaughen> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<gaughen> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<gaughen> next week - this time, this place - chair is jgrimm!
<gaughen> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  4 16:14:32 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-04-04-16.01.moin.txt
<jgrimm> wheee \o/
<jgrimm> thanks gaughen
<caribou> thanks!
<powersj> thanks gaughen
<gaughen> no problem-o
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-04-06
<cyphermox> o/
<sil2100> \o
<caribou> o/
<chiluk> \o/
<rbalint> |o/
<robru>  /o/
<barry> not sure if slangasek or gaughen will be here today?
<gaughen> o/
<gaughen> I'm here!
<gaughen> ooh, do I need to do the shuffle
<caribou> "Do the Harlem shuffle"
<robru> yeah steve said he was having a sick baby emergency
<gaughen> #startmeeting foundations
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  6 15:04:39 2017 UTC.  The chair is gaughen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | foundations Meeting | Current topic:
<barry> echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson rbalint)
<barry> xnox slangasek chiluk sil2100 cyphermox caribou robru mwhudson bdmurray rbalint barry tdaitx infinity doko
<barry> i think that's relatively up to date ;)
<gaughen> xnox might still be out sick
<gaughen> slangasek is sick
<gaughen> so chiluk it's you!
<chiluk> - lp#1647389 - Reviewed and tested user suggested "patch".  It fixes the symptom not the problem. Unfortunately due to lack of a better solution it may be what we do going forward.
<chiluk> - 4.4 Kernel XFS Stability on unstable devices.
<chiluk> - Other not-yet launchpad worthy stuff...
<chiluk> - done..
<sil2100> - Landing team work, ticket release coordination
<sil2100> - Regular SRU reviews
<sil2100> - More kernel SRU reviews
<sil2100> - Further work on getting rid of NBS binaries (blocked on autopilot FTBFS landing in trunk)
<sil2100> - Working on/fixing zesty test-rebuild FTBFS (bamf, biometryd, unity-action-api, zeromq3, accounts-qml-module and more)
<sil2100> - Reading up on python-flufl for u-i internationalization
<sil2100> - Flight preparations
<sil2100> (done)
<barry> sil2100: for release sprint?
<cyphermox> - netcfg: unbreak oem-config for resolvconf (LP: #1646585)
<cyphermox> - slideshow: sponsor Lubuntu fixes and fix translations for Kylin.
<cyphermox> - subiquity: rework livecd-rootfs changes, started ubuntu-cdimage work.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1646585 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Zesty) "oem-config replaces /etc/resolv.conf symlink with a hard file" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1646585
<cyphermox> - netplan: unbreak autopkgtests
<cyphermox> - ubiquity: debugging autopkgtest for a new build (netcfg + other fixes)
<cyphermox> - reviewing a shim for signature.
<cyphermox> - sponsored tbb for rbalint
<cyphermox> (done)
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou> LP #1654600 : unattended-upgrades breaks shutdown when /var is FS
<caribou>  - Found workaround for deg-systemd-helper debian bug #797108
<caribou>  - Tested Trusty upgrade behavior
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1654600 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "unattended-upgrade-shutdown hangs when /var is a separate filesystem" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1654600
<ubottu> Debian bug 797108 in init-system-helpers "init-system-helpers: deb-systemd-helper doesn't remove old links when changing WantedBy= at package upgrade" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/797108
<caribou>  LP: #1342580 : tftp does not start
<caribou>  - SRU completed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1342580 in tftp-hpa (Debian) "tftpd-hpa fails to start when the NIC is not available at startup time" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1342580
<caribou> Clamav stucked in zesty-proposed :Need AA's attendion on releasing
<caribou> tomsfastmath into Main following MIR completion (LP: #1619239)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1619239 in tomsfastmath (Ubuntu) "[MIR] tomsfastmath (runtime dependency of clamav)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1619239
<caribou> Dev:
<caribou>  Sosreport 3.4 -Preparing Debian upload
<caribou>  Sponsor LP: #1645324 - ebtables dragan
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1645324 in ebtables (Ubuntu Trusty) "ebtables: Lock file should be moved from /var/lib/ebtables to /run" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1645324
<caribou>  Document SRU and development process for the team
<caribou> Meetings
<caribou> â Done
<robru> autopkgtest-cloud
<robru> * figured out how to deploy locally
<robru> * started on bug #1677331 (almost done, just need to finish off a couple details)
<robru> bileto
<robru> * some fixes around SRUs and britney
<robru> click-apparmor
<robru> * fix ftbfs in zesty
<robru> (done)
<ubottu> bug 1677331 in Auto Package Testing "http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/ pages should allow directly retrying a test" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1677331
<barry> debuntu: LP: #1660216; LP: #1679807; LP: #1679837; LP: #1679842; python-babel; python-pika; py3.6 transition work (ftbfs; ppa; scripts) for aamazing aardvark
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1660216 in xapian1.3-bindings (Ubuntu) "Package is obsolete and should be removed" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1660216
<barry> ubuntu-image: still testing classic snap.  blocked on snapd clearing [xy]-proposed, but that should allow us to pass autopkgtests and get a working classic snap
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1679807 in devscripts (Ubuntu) "FTBFS: devscripts failed to build on Zesty" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679807
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1679837 in python-eventlet (Ubuntu) "python-eventlet FTBFS on amd64 during zesty archive test rebuild" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679837
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1679842 in python-requests-unixsocket (Ubuntu) "python-requests-unixsocket FTBFS during a zesty test rebuild" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679842
<barry> pycon: much planning for language summit & talk
<barry> --done--
<rbalint> * updated livecd-rootfs autopkgtest merge, would be nice to get it accepted:
<rbalint>   https://code.launchpad.net/~rbalint/livecd-rootfs/livecd-rootfs-autopkgtest/+merge/321459
<rbalint> * finished doc minimization after several attempts
<rbalint>   https://code.launchpad.net/~rbalint/livecd-rootfs/minimize-doc/+merge/321330
<rbalint>   #859646 still keeps a few dirs and links around
<rbalint> * unblocking packages from update_excuses
<rbalint>   LP: #1680169, LP: #1679792
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1680169 in tbb (Ubuntu) "Makes mathicgb FTBFS and mathicgb autopkgtest fail" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1680169
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1679792 in mongodb (Ubuntu) "Please remove i386 binaries for 1:3.4.1-3" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679792
<rbalint>   other triaging which did not result bugs,
<rbalint> * fixing analitza autopkgtest, needs bug but seems ready
<rbalint> * sketched a new product idea to gaughen, it is not public yet
<rbalint> EOF
<barry> gaughen: i think that's it for the lightning round
<gaughen> any other topics folks?
<gaughen> or questions for folks?
<gaughen> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  6 15:17:33 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-04-06-15.04.moin.txt
<cyphermox> when is gdm3 going to work on my laptop?
<caribou> thanks gaughen!
<gaughen> np
<robru> cyphermox: as soon as you make it
<cyphermox> bleh
<doko> gaughen: you skipped a few people ;-P
<gaughen> pssh
<gaughen> we were just too fast for you doko
<cyphermox> it's a *lightning* round
<doko> still used to Cuban slowless ...
<doko> ... and queues
<cyphermox> :D
<chatter29> hey guys
<chatter29> allah is doing
<chatter29> sun is not doing allah is doing
<chatter29> to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
<Kilos> hi clvx
<clvx> Hi Kilos
<clvx> How are you doing?
<Kilos> ok ty and you
<clvx> Doing fine and excited about the meeting.
<Kilos> im trying to ping the members
<clvx> ok
<Kilos> its exciting hey
<Kilos> i remember i was a ball of nerves
<clvx> I am a little bit nervous too
<Kilos> hehe dont be , no one bites
<clvx> ;)
<wxl> hey folks
<clvx> Hi wxl
<Kilos> hi wxl
<marcoceppi> o/
<tsimonq2> o/
<ahoneybun> o/
<Kilos> hi ahoneybun
<ahoneybun> heyo Kilos
<tsimonq2> I can chair unless anyone objects.
<clvx> Hi all
 * ahoneybun pokes clvx to join #ubuntu-us-fl
<tsimonq2> Give me one sec to pull up the docs.
<clvx> done
 * ahoneybun slides tsimonq2 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<tsimonq2> ahoneybun: I appreciate it.
<tsimonq2> Ok, I see.
<tsimonq2> #startmeeting 22 UTC Membership Board Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  6 22:10:26 2017 UTC.  The chair is tsimonq2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 22 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<ahoneybun> #chair tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> Hello and welcome to the Membership Board meeting!
<tsimonq2> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards. We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting.
<tsimonq2> If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off. The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<tsimonq2> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<tsimonq2> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant.
<tsimonq2> Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<tsimonq2> #topic clvx
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 22 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: clvx
<tsimonq2> Hi clvx, introduce yourself. :)
<clvx> My name is Luis Michael Ibarra. I'm from Peru, but now I'm living in the States.  Why would I want to join Ubuntu as a contributor asked myself a few weeks back. At first, I thought .. hey it's Ubuntu, the most used distribution globally, but that didn't check out well in my mind. Then, I remembered the first time I was introduced to the Linux world. It was in a Linux conference sponsored by Red Hat
<clvx> in a college in Lima. I was a college student in my first years at that moment. I loved Linux a lot, because of how much flexibility you can have with it. So, a friend of mine who was in that time a little more experienced installed in my desktop PC Fedora 1(I think). I started playing with gnome a lot, and learning a new world. Until that moment I was just a Windows XP user who programmed in Java.
<clvx> After that, everything changed. I started asking many people over the years and gaining experience with a lot of screw ups using many distros. Until someday in late 2010 I tried Ubuntu after being a serious OpenSUSE user for many years. I found something reliable and simple. Little by little I started digging in the system and playing with it. I liked it a lot, because everything worked without a
<clvx> hassle(not so true when you tried to connect to your wifi, but it was way better than the rest of distros).  Starting 2012 I got a job where Linux was my day today, and it's being like that since then. I gained a lot of experience with Linux. I gave talks about many things around technology and Linux. I asked about a lot of issues in IRC, forums and mailing lists related to Linux and Ubuntu. I was
<clvx> answered about many of those issues. And you know, only few times I had the opportunity to say THANKS MATE YOUR TIME HELPED ME TO SOLVE MY ISSUE. I think becoming a formal contributor is more than contributing back, it's committing myself to keep helping others, so they can say THANKS MATE in return. A thank you that goes for each developer, contributor and person who helped me. I think those are the
<clvx> reasons why I'd like to join Ubuntu as an official member.
<clvx> My wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Clvx
 * ahoneybun drops jaw
<clvx> yeap.. it was more than 5 lines.. =/
<tsimonq2> That's fine. :)
<clvx> These are my contributions: https://www.meetup.com/Docker-Lima/, https://github.com/clvx/openvpn, https://github.com/clvx/easy-rsa, https://github.com/clvx/ubuconla-lxd
<ahoneybun> VPN stuff will be big in the states now
<tsimonq2> Any questions for clvx then?
<Kilos> why did you take so long to take this step clvx ?
<clvx> I always being involved in tech communities, but I had to be sure with myself if this was something that I wanted to do. Hopefully, It is. Also, Jose Antonio Rey gave me a huge bump in my back to do it.
<tsimonq2> clvx: Could you tell us a little more about UbuCon LA?
<clvx> I've always been*
<tsimonq2> clvx: And by that, I mean, your involvement with the conference.
<clvx> yes.. I wasn't involved in the preparation of the event, in fact I just sent my talk to the organizers(in this case Jose), but during the event I joined the group, talked with peers and speaker, helped them with information around the city.
<clvx> I also helped Jose(in that moment I barely knew him) to many little tasks that needed to be done to keep having a wonderful event.
<tsimonq2> Ah, ok.
<tsimonq2> Does anyone have any more questions for clvx before we vote?
<ahoneybun> clvx: do you plan to join your LoCo at all?
<clvx> I think there's a LoCo in Fort Laudardale, but I already met Chris(I don't recall his last name) at the Docker Orlando meetup and he's in my area. I'll contact him to make something interesting in the space coast. So, yes.
<clvx> Fort Laudardale is a little bit far from where I am.
<ahoneybun> I've met Chris
<ahoneybun> yea I know we do stuff around that area and south
<nzoueidi> o/ board and clvx
<Kilos> you caught up nzoueidi ?
<nzoueidi> Do you have links for LXD contributions?
<clvx> I've moved in recently(no more than 2 months) I'm still trying to figuring this out in Florida.
<ahoneybun> #voters tsimonq2 ahoneybun wxl Kilos nzoueidi
<clvx> https://github.com/clvx/ubuconla-lxd, this one. I also used to contribute a lot in the lxccontainers mailing list(2014-2015).
<tsimonq2> ahoneybun: It didn't do anything. I'm working on it.
<tsimonq2> #voters ahoneybun elacheche pleia2 jcastro Kilos nzoueidi tsimonq2 wxl
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: elacheche
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: jcastro
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos ahoneybun elacheche jcastro nzoueidi pleia2 tsimonq2 wxl
<ahoneybun> right chair thing
<tsimonq2> wxl is +1 fwiw
<tsimonq2> +1
<tsimonq2> Oh shoot
<tsimonq2> #vote clvx's membership status
<meetingology> Please vote on: clvx's membership status
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<tsimonq2> +1
<Kilos> you gotta tell the bot first i think
<meetingology> +1 received from tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> Kilos: Yep, got it. :)
<Kilos> hehe
<nzoueidi> +1 from me too, keep the good work clvx specially for LXD ;)
<meetingology> +1 from me too, keep the good work clvx specially for LXD ;) received from nzoueidi
<clvx> here are some more http://marc.info/?a=144182573700003&r=1&w=2
<ahoneybun> +1 from me, join us around the Florida LoCo ;)
<meetingology> +1 from me, join us around the Florida LoCo ;) received from ahoneybun
<Kilos> +1 keep it up. and well done
<meetingology> +1 keep it up. and well done received from Kilos
<ahoneybun> mm
<ahoneybun> #votesrequired 4
<ahoneybun> mm
<tsimonq2> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<ahoneybun> there we go
<tsimonq2> 4? Ok...
<tsimonq2> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: clvx's membership status
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<ahoneybun> well he got all +1s
<clvx> \o/
<tsimonq2> clvx: Congrats! :)
<nzoueidi> Yep 4 is the quorum :)
<ahoneybun> so either way he got membership
<nzoueidi> Congrats clvx  :)
<tsimonq2> clvx: Keep up the good work :)
<tsimonq2> I'll announce in all the places and add him.
<clvx> thanks a lot.. I will, that's the idea.
<Kilos> congrats clvx and welcome on board
<clvx> I'm so happy guys/ladies.
<Kilos> good feeling hey
<tsimonq2> Added to the team.
<Kilos> ok guys thanks for attending and thanks for chairing tsimonq2
<clvx> thanks Kilos, nzoueidi, tsimonq2, ahoneybun.. and to all the members =D
<tsimonq2> Thanks :)
<Kilos> i go crash
<ahoneybun> #endmeeting
<tsimonq2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  6 22:32:35 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-04-06-22.10.moin.txt
<ahoneybun> xD
<tsimonq2> ahoneybun: lol for the last time, you're not chair XD
<ahoneybun> right
<Kilos> yw clvx
<Kilos> night all. sleep tight
<tsimonq2> o/ Kilos
 * ahoneybun flys off
<clvx> night then.. I should be going.
<tsimonq2> o/ clvx
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-04-02
<ratliff> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  2 16:30:59 2018 UTC.  The chair is ratliff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ratliff> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<ratliff> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<ratliff> Thanks to Simon Quigley (tsimonq2) for providing debdiffs for xenial-artful for atril (LP: #1759069) and
<ratliff>  debdiffs for trusty-xenial for kdepim (LP: #1698180)!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1759069 in atril (Ubuntu Artful) "[CVE] Arbitrary command injection via DVI filename injection when printing to PDF" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759069
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1698180 in kdepim (Ubuntu Xenial) "[CVE] Send Later with Delay bypasses OpenPGP" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1698180
<ratliff> Thanks to Ray Link (rlink) for providint the debdiff for xenial for xmltooling (LP: #1752306)!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1752306 in xmltooling (Ubuntu Artful) "Security bug in XMLTooling-C before 1.6.4 [CVE-2018-0489]" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1752306
<ratliff> or providing it, rather
<ratliff> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<ratliff> jdstrand: you're up (if you are around)
<jdstrand> I'm here :)
<jdstrand> This week I plan to work on:
<jdstrand> - address conntrack deprecation issues in ufw for 18.04
<jdstrand> - apparmor upload to 18.04 to fix webbrowser-app and mediascanner2 upgrades
<jdstrand> - finish up miscellaneous updates branches for snapd
<jdstrand> - pick up the snap/usn notification work as have time
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<ratliff> thanks, jdstrand! m_deslaur is on national holiday today
<ratliff> sbeattie: you are up!
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm publishing openjdk packages this morning
<sbeattie> There should be kernel USNs to publish later this week, I believe.
<sbeattie> I'm still slowly making progress on my gcc retpoline backport for precise
<sbeattie> Between that and catching up on a weeks worth of email, that'll probably consume my week.
<sbeattie> that's it from me
<sbeattie> sarnold: I think you're up?
<sarnold> I'm on community this week; I'll start the MIRs with pysmi today, and keep on moving down the line
<sarnold> I'm leaning towards accepting openjpeg2; it's still got a long way to go :( but it's come so far and is probably a better jpeg2000 library than what we're already using
<sarnold> .. any comments about that would be welcome :)
<sarnold> that's it for me, uh .. leosilva?
<leosilva> I'm on bug triage
<leosilva> I'm hunting this week and researching cves.
<ratliff> tons of ruby CVEs about to land, leosilva
<leosilva> ratliff: I believe it's back to yo
<leosilva> \o/
<ratliff> I'm in the happy place this week.
<ratliff> My goal is to get the old kpi scripts checked into UCT along with some new kpi scripts and get all of the new kpis converted over to influx
<ratliff> Also a ton of internal work.
<ratliff> That's it for me.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security updates. If you have any questions, feel
<ratliff> free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<ratliff> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<ratliff> Quick meeting this week!
<ratliff> We are seeing scattered reports of problems with the intel-microcode package. If you are experiencing any difficulties, please add your comments to LP #1760264
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1759920 in linux (Ubuntu Artful) "duplicate for #1760264 intel-microcode 3.20180312.0 causes lockup at login screen(w/ linux-image-4.13.0-37-generic)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759920
<ratliff> jdstrand, sbeattie, sarnold, leosilva: Thanks!
<ratliff> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr  2 16:45:13 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-04-02-16.30.moin.txt
<leosilva> thanks ratliff
<sarnold> thanks ratliff!
<sbeattie> ratliff: thanks!
<jdstrand> ratliff: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-04-05
<rbalint> o/
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  5 15:01:16 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther juliank)
<slangasek> tdaitx slangasek bdmurray rbalint tribaal mwhudson xnox infinity cyphermox sil2100 rcj juliank philroche fginther doko Odd_Bloke
<slangasek> tdaitx: hello
<sil2100> o/
 * juliank might get a phone call during the meeting, but hopes not
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 9/10 as default JDK
<tdaitx>   - reviewing additional java dependent packages for rebuilds (from debian's pkg-java list [1]
<tdaitx>   - investigating openjdk-8 runtime failures when building with source/target 8 using openjdk-9 (LP: #1760359)
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 8 security update (8u171) due to April 17
<tdaitx>   - Patching, building & testing
<tdaitx>   - Backporting to openjdk-7
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1760359 in gradle (Ubuntu) "gradle: "illegal reflective access" with openjdk-9" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760359
<tdaitx> [1] https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=pkg-java-maintainers%40lists.alioth.debian.org
<tdaitx> (done)
<tdaitx> oh, there are 2 highlights regarding the release of openjdk-8 for Xenial and openjdk-7 for Trusty
<tdaitx> but I need to write them down
<slangasek>  * short week, off last Thu/Fri
<slangasek>  * driving towards final release: FFes, proposed-migration, etc
<slangasek>  * working on lubuntu critical installer bugs: LP: #1759732 is fixed, LP: #1754174 vexes me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1759732 in partman-crypto (Ubuntu) "[Lubuntu] Having zram support means that encrypted LVM installs don't work" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759732
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1754174 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[Lubuntu] "Install Lubuntu" fails with several commands not found and permission denied" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754174
<slangasek>  * various code reviews, including for upcoming changes to kernel packaging
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> updated PR request with changes to trello bug importer
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for plymouth --ping bug LP: #1705345
<bdmurray> worked with webops on Error Tracker mojo spec RT #108968
<bdmurray> uploaded whoopsie to bionic which will send JournalErrors
<bdmurray> worked on daisy change to accept only part of JournalErrors
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1705345 in plymouth (Ubuntu Artful) "Installing packages hangs on plymouth --ping" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1705345
<bdmurray> tested daisy & whoopsie change in devops
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding staging update of daisy
<bdmurray> reported apport bug regarding glibc and gdb LP: #1760207
<bdmurray> reported apport bug regarding bad coredumps LP: #1760634
<bdmurray> looked for recent 18.04 dupes of plymouth --ping bug (none found)
<bdmurray> uploaded Xenial and Artful SRUs for LP: #1705345
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1760207 in Apport "gdb sandbox can cause issues with gdb and glibc" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760207
<gaughen> o/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1760634 in Apport "apport-retrace doesn't check to see if a core file is bad" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760634
<bdmurray> SRU verification (X, A) of LP: #1705345
<bdmurray> tested rls-bb-tracking bug LP: #1749688 (works good)
<bdmurray> investigation into LP: #1743108 - set it to Fix Released
<bdmurray> research into retracer hangs - more old libc6 crashes
<bdmurray> submitted RT re dumping more old libc6 core files
<bdmurray> modified daisy to not accept crashes with old libc6 core files
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1749688 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "16.04 HWE -> 18.04 = xorg held back (+ partial breakage because of it)" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1749688
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1743108 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu Bionic) "Xubuntu 18.04 "Welcome to Xubuntu" slide shows 17.10" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1743108
<bdmurray> submitted RT and tested staging update of daisy
<bdmurray> worked on / tested fix for LP: #1739531
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1739531 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "apport-collect SHOULD NOT collect gnome-shell command history and favorites" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1739531
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<rbalint> (very short week due to holidays)
<rbalint> * (highlight) rebuilding ~1300 packages in universe to let -fPIE take effect and fixing some new FTBFSs
<rbalint> * triaging LP: #1737441, not finished yet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1737441 in python-apt (Ubuntu Bionic) "/usr/bin/unattended-upgrade:11:__GI___libc_free:operator:__gnu_cxx::new_allocator:std::allocator_traits:std::__cxx11::basic_string" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1737441
<rbalint> (done)
<slangasek> tribaal:
<tribaal> * Easter holidays
<tribaal> * Minimal images publication to cloud-image.ubuntu.com is ready for dailies! cloud-images.ubuntu.com/minimal
<tribaal> * (done)
<slangasek> xnox:
<xnox> â¢ upload livecd-rootfs, hopefully fixing subiquity slow boot
<xnox> â¢ uploaded noawait triggers for plymouth related things
<xnox> â¢ fixup plymouth / casper harder
<xnox> â¢ working on next systemd upload
<xnox> â¢ clouds / resolved / etc
<xnox> â¢ done
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<sil2100> I think Matt is out
<slangasek> indeed
<slangasek> sil2100:
<slangasek> :)
<sil2100> Oh, yay!
<sil2100> - Super short week (holidays + time-off)
<sil2100> - FFe reviews
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Experimenting with a local britney2 setup, reading up on juju
<sil2100> - Updating cxlflash to the latest upstream version
<sil2100> - Starting the Final Beta for bionic
<sil2100> - Booking hotels
<sil2100> (done)
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * cloud-image maintenance and feeding
<rcj> * cloud-image minimal image publication development
<rcj> * livecd-rootfs prototyping for snap preseeding in binary hooks
<rcj> (done)
<rcj> juliank:
<juliank> * fri/monday were holidays
<juliank> * apport snap integration in proposed (bug 1729491); has a small typo that needs fixup, though
<ubottu> bug 1729491 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "[UIFe] ubuntu-bug says that snap packages are not installed" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1729491
<juliank> * enabled tests in socat
<juliank> * fixed my personal annoyance with powertop missing kaby lake fixes by uploading 2.9
<juliank> * a lot of weird travel stuff to sort out
<juliank> * preparing SRU for python-pyvmomi 6.5 to xenial (it built and is installable)
<juliank> * apt hooks for snap integration ready to write
<juliank> (done)
<philroche> * Short week for me due to Easter break
<philroche> * Deliver early previews of Bionic to public clouds
<philroche> (done)
<philroche> fginther:
<fginther> * Holiday for 2 days
<fginther> * Image testing automation for a partner cloud now in code review
<fginther> * Build system vanguard
<fginther> (done)
<fginther> doko:
<doko> - openjdk-10 / openjdk-11 /openjdk-lts reorganization
<doko> - syncing Java packages, formal FFe in LP: #1760920
<doko> - MIR's ...
<doko> - process NEW sources, left in the queue for two months
<doko> - archive work: removals, syncs, fixing autopkg test failures
<doko> - python 3.6.5 in the archive (python 3.7 beta 3)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1760920 in java-common (Ubuntu) "FFe: sync java packages from Debian to fix OpenJDK 9/10 issues" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760920
<doko> - GCC cross package updates, including fixes for glibc
<doko> - Still investigate a AArch64 regression in the Linaro toolchain
<doko> - bash update to work around qemu issue on ARM
<doko> - launchpad ops now ok with starting test rebuilds, scheduled for Friday
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> and Odd_Bloke is out
<slangasek> any questions?
<tdaitx> here are my highlights, let me know if I should fill in more detail:
<tdaitx> [HIGHLIGHT] OpenJDK 8 security update 8u162 has been released for Xenial and Artful
<tdaitx> [HIGHLIGHT] OpenJDK 7 security update 7u171 based on IcedTea 2.6.13 has been released for Trusty
<bdmurray> no questions here
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything we need to discuss here, or is everything now perfectly tracked with nothing to say? :)
<bdmurray> bug 1761478 just came in but is naming the wrong suspect
<ubottu> bug 1761478 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "0.9.3-1ubuntu4 broke livecd reboot plymouth in qemu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761478
<slangasek> ah?
<bdmurray> Oh I see the comment about casper-stop now. Anyway seems worth diggin into.
<slangasek> ah, this was the casper bug that I think xnox was already fixing
<xnox> i think that should be fixed soon/now
<slangasek> interesting, xnox: there's your answer, bdmurray broke livecd shutdown display, not us :)
<bdmurray> xnox: okay please reference that bug in the changelog then
<xnox> hm
<bdmurray> slangasek: you were gone last week when we discussed bug 1756595. Should we target that?
<ubottu> bug 1756595 in apt (Ubuntu) "disk space info inadvertently provides all installed snaps" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756595
<tdaitx> doko: slangasek: the pkg list from the pkg-java link in LP: #1760920 lists packages that are not in ubuntu (997 are found in ubuntu, 127 are not), should I add a comment listing those? or maybe attach a file?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1760920 in java-common (Ubuntu) "FFe: sync java packages from Debian to fix OpenJDK 9/10 issues" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760920
<slangasek> bdmurray: seems like a good thing to take a decision on before release, yes
<juliank> it's a feature! :D
<xnox> bdmurray, i think we need desktop respin with new casper....
<gaughen> slangasek, bdmurray did a lot of good work to clean up rls-bb-tracking bugs
<tdaitx> small typo: 996 packages from the 1123 are in ubuntu
<slangasek> tdaitx: do you know why they're not in Ubuntu? that's a rather high number; are they in unstable but not in Ubuntu?
<tdaitx> slangasek: haven't look into that in depth, but I saw that some are only in old-stable or so
<tdaitx> oldstable
<bdmurray> xnox: Oh, its the fonts on shutdown issue?
<bdmurray> that's not my fault then
<slangasek> tdaitx: ok; best to filter out packages from the list that there's no possibility we will be uploading
<xnox> bdmurray, yeah fonts.... fix in casper and there is another bug report about it.
<bdmurray> yes, I found it
<bdmurray> slangasek: are we taking on decision on snaps and df?
<slangasek> bdmurray: well, I'm saying we should target it
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay, doing so
<slangasek> and the decision we take might be to wontfix :)
<bdmurray> should be an easy SRU
<tdaitx> slangasek: ack, I will 1) check the ones that are *not* in ubuntu to see which debian release they belong to; and 2) filter out the ones in ubuntu to split them depending on whether they are in bionic or not
<slangasek> anything else on bugs?
<bdmurray> there are a whole bunch of duplicates of bug 1745406...
<ubottu> bug 1745406 in Plymouth "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in script_obj_deref_direct()" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1745406
<slangasek> that's probably a very old bug whose stacktrace signature has recently changed
<slangasek> I was never able to debug that
<bdmurray> sure its bug 927636
<ubottu> bug 927636 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in script_obj_deref_direct()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927636
<slangasek> if someone has a reproducer, that would help
<bdmurray> I've done some research into it but nothing is obvious. One idea would be to upload a plymouth that'll get more debug information.
<bdmurray> There's no logging of which script is being processed / used although its likely the ubuntu one.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> yes, it was definitely reproduced with the Ubuntu script in the past
<slangasek> anyway I'm wary of committing to it because it was so intractable last time I looked
<slangasek> I think we have a full plate already between now and release, maybe we should revisit it later
<bdmurray> Sounds good
<slangasek> ok, anything else?
<gaughen> no
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> and anything else else?
<sil2100> I don't think so
<gaughen> no
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  5 15:39:36 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-04-05-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<sil2100> Thanks!
<elopio> elacheche: jose: flexiondotorg: marcoceppi: ahoneybun: wxl: we start in a little less than an hour.
<elopio> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-topics-community-council-meeting-20180405/4983/2
<elopio> elacheche: jose: flexiondotorg: marcoceppi: ahoneybun: wxl: ready?
<flexiondotorg> elopio: o/
<wxl> elopio: yep
<elacheche> o/
<elopio> cool. I sent an email saying that I couldn't lead this meeting, but it was a timezone mistake. So if somebody wants to take the lead, please say so. Otherwise, I'll go.
<elacheche> You go x)
<flexiondotorg> Go for it elopio
<wxl> not it :)
<elopio> #startmeeting Ubuntu Community Council, 20180405
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  5 17:00:37 2018 UTC.  The chair is elopio. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Community Council, 20180405 Meeting | Current topic:
<elopio> We start with elopio, flexiondotorg, elacheche and wxl present.
<elopio> ahoneybun: jose: marcoceppi: one more call.
<elopio> Here is the call for topics: https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-topics-community-council-meeting-20180405/4983/2
<elopio> If you have something to add to the agenda, please do it.
<elacheche> elopio: jose just sent a mail informing us that there was an outage @work..
<elopio> ack, thanks jose for letting us know.
<elopio> Let's start.
<elopio> #topic Progress from last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Community Council, 20180405 Meeting | Current topic: Progress from last meeting
<elopio> #subtopic Bold bug triaging - @jose
<elacheche> I'd like to set a date to review all our previous actions, I admit that I am guilty, lazy and sometimes busy and did not get some tasks fully done, but that is a good motivation for me to ask for a meeting to only review our previous actions..
<elopio> He's not around. Anybody else knows how this is going, or should we ask for an update on the hub?
<flexiondotorg> I think jose was going to try and make contact with the LP user in question.
<elopio> elacheche: ok, let's add it at the end of the agenda.
<flexiondotorg> Don't know if that happened.
<elopio> flexiondotorg: I tried contacting the LP user. Jose was going to contact the LP admins.
<flexiondotorg> OK, any feedback from the user?
<elopio> no reply.
<flexiondotorg> Right, then we shall proceed with contacting LP admins then.
<elopio> ok, I will ask him to update the status on the topic on the hub.
<wxl> i think i mentioned at the end of the last meeting that the way to resolve a malicious LP user is through sysadmin
<flexiondotorg> Shall I own that?
<wxl> i confirmed this with the sysadmins last time
<wxl> they are, in essence, the LP admins
<wxl> otherwise, we're looking at the likes of the people that administer the LP code and that's not the same thing
<elopio> flexiondotorg: please first sync with jose, to not do the work twice in case he did something already.
<elopio> but yes, it would be nice if you help us moving it too.
<elopio> next
<elopio> #subtopic Triage CoC bug - all CC.
<wxl> subtopic?
<elopio> I read the bugs that wxl linked, but didn't do anything about it.
<flexiondotorg> I haveb't looked at that, sorry :-(
<wxl> i see nevermind
<wxl> yes, even i, who brought this up, haven't done anything about it
<elopio> I want to take an action to turn some of the things into FAQ, as we mentioned before. In askubuntu, with an index in the community hub
<wxl> my life is almost back to normal after a long barrage of circumstances, so i hope to get on it this week
<elopio> how does it sound? Anybody wanting to help?
<wxl> that, itself, sounds like a bug against the CoC.
<wxl> i.e. that the CoC doesn't adequately explain itself and needs supporting documentation
<elopio> wxl: can you explain that a little more please?
<wxl> ^^
<elopio> well, I think we need three documents. The text itself, which should be short and concise so people read it. An accompanying document about process, and the FAQ.
<elopio> if we put all that info in the CoC, it will be too big and not relevant to everybody.
<wxl> though really the text should answer many FAQs
<wxl> if there are questions, the CoC itself is incomplete
<wxl> unless it's related to process, application, something
<elopio> so, are you against FAQ?
<wxl> i guess these things can't be really spoken of too generally. it's a case-by-case thing.
<wxl> i'm ok with a FAQ-- to a point
<elopio> ok. So this will be part of the triage. Decide if the fix is to rephrase the CoC, add info to the process page, or add an FAQ.
<elopio> how about that?
<wxl> yep
<elopio> I will keep the action from last meeting
<wxl> do we already have stuff that we think we should add to a process page or FAQ?
<elopio> #action Everybody on the CC: Review, triage, and fix Code of Conduct bugs, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-codeofconduct?_ga=2.196544300.184085878.1522873628-340992262.1504202881
<meetingology> ACTION: Everybody on the CC: Review, triage, and fix Code of Conduct bugs, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-codeofconduct?_ga=2.196544300.184085878.1522873628-340992262.1504202881
<elopio> next
<elopio> #subtopic Clearly define governance seats, terms, and quorum - @elacheche
<elopio> elacheche?
<wxl> ELACHECHE
<wxl> :)
<elacheche> I did not progress in that task really, started reviewing some old wikis, next move is to get in touch with old CC, UMB, LC and ther boards members to ask if they have better information
<elacheche> wxl: Why are you yelling at me :'( :'( xD xD
<elopio> Should I keep the action for the next time?
<wxl> yes. the thing still needs to be done, even without any input from elsewhere
<elacheche> YES.. I will keep working on this
<elopio> #action elacheche: Clearly define governance seats, terms, and quorum
<meetingology> ACTION: elacheche: Clearly define governance seats, terms, and quorum
<ahoneybun> here sorry was working on something for work.
<elopio> #subtopic Bootstrap new, official, Ubuntu flavours - @Wimpress
<elopio> flexiondotorg: ^
<flexiondotorg> Yo!
<elopio> it's your twin
<flexiondotorg> So, I asked if CC members could come up with 2 desktop environments or "set-top" applications to approach for the 18.10 cycle to invite them to create an official Ubuntu flavour.
<wxl> aw heck, i forgot about that.
<flexiondotorg> Not sure if anyone has given that any thought, but here are my two:
<flexiondotorg> Liri - https://liri.io/
<flexiondotorg> Cinnamon
<wxl> elopio: can you put that on the agenda for next time as a for everyone sort of thing?
<wxl> i have one off the top of my head: enlightenment
<elopio> yeah, I found only one, but it's too early. I want to keep playing with them, because it sounds very fun. It's called way-cooler.
<elacheche> flexiondotorg: I thought about i3 and awesomewm.. It will be interesting to see what "minimalist" apps will be included in a such remix
<flexiondotorg> Yes, and we know who to contact about that, since an Ubuntu derivative with Enlightenment exsits :-)
<wxl> assumedly that's wayland, which is something i would agree with
<elopio> wxl: do you mean the 2 environments as an action?
<wxl> elopio: that CC members should come up with 2, yes. as a reminder for us :)
<elopio> flexiondotorg: wait, I have another one, plex!
<flexiondotorg> We decided that approach 2 per cycle was enough, just in case they both agreed :-)
<flexiondotorg> Plex is a good example, they have server and client.
<elopio> so let's see. do we have to make a decission now on which two to focus?
<flexiondotorg> Yes.
<flexiondotorg> I want agreement today, one the two we will contact and I will take an action to find contacts and reach out.
<elopio> wxl: so it doesn't make sense to add the action for next meeting
<wxl> ah ok
<flexiondotorg> We have Liri, Cinnamon, Plex, Enlightenment, way-cooler so far. I can add more?
<elopio> I would like liri and plex. But I'm ok if flexiondotorg chooses, as he's been more involved in this.
<flexiondotorg> wxl, which do you like?
<wxl> i actually like the idea of inviting way-cooler early. they've got some ways to go, but having some people doing cutting edge wayland stuff would be nice. for that matter, enlightment wins there, too.
<elacheche> Liri isn't an OS not a DE?
<wxl> that said, i also like the sound of "awesome ubuntu"
<flexiondotorg> My third choice is Sway. A Wayland *box
<flexiondotorg> elacheche: Yes, Liri is an OS. But the devs and Ubuntu friendly and who says the OS can't be Ubuntu? :-)
<elacheche> Was just making sure that I am not wrong :D x)
<flexiondotorg> elacheche: Which two project do you like most from the list available?
<flexiondotorg> wxl, you too. And ahoneybun.
<elopio> brb, need to close the door.
<elacheche> As wxl said, an "Awesome Ubuntu" will be cool to have :D But from your list, I like Liri and Enlightenment
<flexiondotorg> ahoneybun: I suspect you wanted to nominate Pop!_OS to become an official flavour, right? ;-)
<flexiondotorg> I like Liri. And I'll go with Enlightenment too.
<elopio> I'm happy with that.
<flexiondotorg> I'd love to see a Cinnamon flavour, but let's not eat Clem's lunch completely just yet ;-)
<flexiondotorg> So we are agreed, Liri and Enlightenment to be contacted?
<elopio> anybody prefers to go a different way than Liri + E?
<elacheche> That's good
<flexiondotorg> OK, Agreed.
<flexiondotorg> I'll take an action to contact both.
<wxl> do it
<elopio> flexiondotorg: what would be the next steps?
<elopio> ahh, sorry.
<elopio> #action flexiondotorg contact the liri and enlightenment community
<meetingology> ACTION: flexiondotorg contact the liri and enlightenment community
<flexiondotorg> wxl, Liri is a Wayland thing too :-)
<elopio> please let us know if you need help, and we can split future tasks.
<wxl> ah bonus
<elopio> #subtopic Ubuntu guerrilla marketing campaign - @Wimpress
<wxl> i gathered that from the "feel" of the site but wasn't sure :)
<flexiondotorg> No need now. If weither say yes, then we have work to do.
<flexiondotorg> So, the marketing idea.
<flexiondotorg> I don't think I got pitch this before?
<elopio> flexiondotorg: yes, you have two times already :)
<wxl> yeah i think you did
<flexiondotorg> Then I've dropped the ball on that one and need to get the initiative started.
<flexiondotorg> This is definitely something that need breaking up into tasks for multiple people.
<elopio> flexiondotorg: as far as I remember, the action was to start a topic on the hub
<flexiondotorg> So I'll post on the hub, tag us lots and we can carve up who does what.
<elopio> and then we could call artists and other handy people to help us.
<flexiondotorg> Yep.
<flexiondotorg> Yep.
<flexiondotorg> I dropped the ball. I'll kick that oof.
<elopio> #action flexiondotorg make a post on the hub about the guerrilla marketing campaign.
<meetingology> ACTION: flexiondotorg make a post on the hub about the guerrilla marketing campaign.
<elopio> thank you, the idea is great.
<elopio> #subtopic Review the CC wiki pages - @elopio
<elopio> so, this was super simple in the end. All of the pages that have not been migrated to the hub where about past meetings.
<flexiondotorg> Good, I thought that was the case after I moved them all over.
<elopio> we don't need to migrate them at all, I think. They can live forever on the wiki. I just thought it would be nice to make an index, this one could live in the hub and include the summaries of our meetings too
<elopio> and then I thought some archaeology would be fun.
<elopio> like, documenting the members of all the past CCs
<elacheche> +1 elopio
<ahoneybun> flexiondotorg, an official flavor lol
<elopio> maybe reading some of these past meetings, if there is a decent summary, to list the biggest accomplishments and challenges.
<flexiondotorg> When I moved stuff to the hub or saw no value in moving old meeting indexes over.
<elopio> flexiondotorg: you might be right. Anybody sees value on the index?
<flexiondotorg> -1
<flexiondotorg> ahoneybun: Not actually completely joking.
<elopio> ok, less work. But I would still like to dig a little. I won't take this as an action, but will try to do it as a side project.
<elopio> fwiw, +1 on popos oficial flavor :)
<flexiondotorg> Hah!
<ahoneybun> flexiondotorg, well it is not meant to be a flavor lol
<elopio> Anybody wanting to report something not already mentioned from the past weeks?
<flexiondotorg> Yes
<flexiondotorg> There is an Ubuntu website design change coming.
<elopio> wooo
<flexiondotorg> As a result we've been asked to change the sub-domain of the Hub the discourse.ubuntu.com
<flexiondotorg> And RT has been filed.
<flexiondotorg> So that change is coming at some point.
<elacheche> Why? x)
<elopio> and what will be in community.ubuntu.com?
<popey> it will redirect
<popey> (I filed the RT)
<flexiondotorg> So of the community posts on the Hub will reworked and move back the pages under the community.ubuntu.com website.
<popey> no
<popey> thats not whats happening
<flexiondotorg> Oh
<popey> the pages will go to ubuntu.com/community :)
<popey> close though ;)
<flexiondotorg> That
<flexiondotorg> I do my best :-)
<flexiondotorg> Any other questions about the Hub sub-domain change?
<elopio> I like ubuntu.com/community, and if community.ubuntu.com redirects to discourse, I see no big harm for the hub.
<popey> yeah, the site itself isn't changing much
<popey> it's more for consistency, as other projects are likely to grow their own discourse site
<popey> and the powers that be would like the sites to be consistent
<elopio> popey: flexiondotorg: I'm guessing a post is coming to notify everybody about the move?
<flexiondotorg> "others projects" being Ubuntu or Canonical led?
<elacheche> LoCos maybe?
<popey> elopio: once its coming yeah
<popey> but it's in the giant queue of RTs
<popey> so I dont know when it's happening yet
<popey> other projects like other products that canonical manages
<elopio> cool.
<popey> maybe juju, maas etc
<popey> I don't know, but that's the idea.
<flexiondotorg> OK, all done on that one?
<elopio> Alright, next?
<flexiondotorg> Yep.
<flexiondotorg> I have one.
<elopio> report, or new topic?
<flexiondotorg> Umm, one of those :-)
<flexiondotorg> flocculant asked on the Hub about the community donation fund summary being published.
<elopio> yes, that's the next topic on the agenda.
<elopio> #subtopic Community donation reports - @flocculant
<flexiondotorg> So, that ^ is on popey and me.
<popey> Yup. I didnt have access to the data until recently
<flexiondotorg> We recently got access to the data we need.
<popey> We now have that!
<flexiondotorg> We just need to find time to do it.
<flexiondotorg> Which is unlikely to be in April.
<elopio> flexiondotorg: popey: So you need to catch up like 6 months, right?
<flexiondotorg> So, we can reply to flocculant that we have the data and will post a summary in due course.
<popey> oh there's a lot of catch up
<popey> over a year since the last report
<elopio> yeah, that's a lot. I wouldn't expect you to have it solved this month. But can we say ETA may? june?
<popey> once we churn out the first few, we should be able to do this faster
<popey> the week post-release
<popey> lets commit to that
<elopio> thanks! And thanks to flocculant for bringing this to our attention.
<elopio> #action popey and flexiondotorg will catch up with the unreported community donations.
<meetingology> ACTION: popey and flexiondotorg will catch up with the unreported community donations.
<elopio> well, unreported sounds bad.
<elopio> sorry, I can't find a better word that describes this but also makes it clear that I trust you <3
<elopio> next
<elopio> #action set a date to review all our previous actions - @elacheche.
<meetingology> ACTION: set a date to review all our previous actions - @elacheche.
<elopio> elacheche? :D
<elacheche> I think it's a clear task x)
<elopio> but, I didn't fully understand what are you looking for
<elopio> like have an extra meeting to review?
<elacheche> We should review our old tasks and see if they are done, in progress, blocked because of people, like me, bein lazy, or because of external causes, etc..
<elopio> yeah, we should have a backlog.
<elacheche> Like building a report about that, and discuss the report during one of our meetings
<elacheche> but we should set the meeting date before we actually do that, like saying that we will do the review after 4 meetings from this one or so
<elopio> so, the fourth meeting will be for reviewing actions?
<elopio> that sounds good to me.
<elopio> the next meeting would be the review of march and april actions.
<elacheche> I said that as an exemple :) But if you folks agree to that, so let's do that
<elopio> what do you think of a wiki post on the hub that collects all the #actions from these meetings?
<elopio> we can put a check on the ones that are done, and a one line summary to the ones in progress, blocked, rejected...
<wxl> that would be good
<elacheche> elopio: Yeah sure! We should review all previous meetings reports to be able to achieve this task
<wxl> my only concern is those things that are less public
<elopio> ahh, that's a good point. Maybe after the meeting is over, we move to the private channel to discuss about them.
<elacheche> We can ignore to list those wxl and we can discuss them in the ML
<elopio> popey: flexiondotorg: is there a way to make a topic on the hub that only the CC can see and edit?
<flexiondotorg> Umm, possibly.
<flexiondotorg> Let me look into that.
<wxl> my problem is that we lose track of things (example: recent email following back up the foundation)
<flexiondotorg> Might require a category.
<wxl> what about private launchpad bugs?
<elacheche> +1 wxl
<elopio> so, any takers for the actions on this topic?
<elacheche> o/
<elopio> #action elacheche collect the actions for march and april, to be discussed on next meeting.
<meetingology> ACTION: elacheche collect the actions for march and april, to be discussed on next meeting.
<elopio> like that?
<elacheche> OK :)
<elopio> #action elacheche, flexiondotorg: figure out how to do a private backlog on the hub or on launchpad.
<meetingology> ACTION: elacheche, flexiondotorg: figure out how to do a private backlog on the hub or on launchpad.
<elopio> that one too?
<elacheche> With LP is straightforward :)
<elopio> yeah, but there's no way to edit. What I meant was to figure out which one is best.
<wxl> what do you mean there's no way to edit?
<elopio> ah, right, we can edit. Well, I have no preferece at all, I'm happy with whatever you decide is best.
<elopio> sorry, I need to leave right now.
<elopio> who wants to step up to finish the meeting? I can make the summary on the weekend.
<elopio> I will let you to it, 'cause I need to run :)
<flexiondotorg> OK
<flexiondotorg> Are we all done here?
<elopio> last topic was mine, so in a hurry:
<elacheche> I think we can end the meeting, or there is other topics to discuss?
<elopio> #subtopic Outdated translations workflows - @elopio
<elopio> #action elopio talk to the translations coordinators and the launchpad team to join the discussion on the hub.
<meetingology> ACTION: elopio talk to the translations coordinators and the launchpad team to join the discussion on the hub.
<elopio> ok, bye, thanks, sorry to leave you like this.
<elacheche> OK, any other topics to discuss or we can end the meeting? flexiondotorg wxl ahoneybun ?
<flexiondotorg> Nope.
<wxl> nada
<elacheche> OK, let's try to end this meeting, and hope that meetingology will execute the command x)
<elacheche> #endmeeting
<elacheche> elopio: meetingology will not listen to me..
<elacheche> No ops around that can command meetingology ? wxl flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> No super powers here.
<flexiondotorg> popey: ^
<wxl> #endmeeting
<elacheche> x) xD
<elacheche> popey elopio if one of you come around please #endmeeting
<wxl> i asked at #ubuntu-irc. maybe we'll get lucky?
<elacheche> maybe
<wxl> well i'm gonna get some tea and breakfast
<DalekSec> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  5 21:45:23 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-04-05-17.00.moin.txt
<tsimonq2> wxl: A new record for a CC meeting? :P
<wxl> tsimonq2: our chair left us :/
<tsimonq2> wxl: Like a wooden chair, or... ? XD
<wxl> tsimonq2: that certainly would explain a lot
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-04-04
<rbalint> o/
 * vorlon waves
<infinity> \o
<sil2100> o/
<vorlon> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  4 15:01:42 2019 UTC.  The chair is vorlon. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<vorlon> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<vorlon> $ echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<vorlon> rbalint bdmurray infinity tdaitx vorlon xnox waveform cyphermox doko mwhudson sil2100 juliank
<xnox> rbalint, did you nominate vorlon last week?
<juliank> may I move up?
<bdmurray> juliank: I'll trade you
<juliank> bdmurray: thanks
<vorlon> rbalint:
<rbalint> a moment
<vorlon> juliank: you can go first then ;)
<juliank>  * opened merge request for ua apt integration, fixed up comments, and got it merged
<juliank>  * poked RT to allow aptdaemon in :)
<juliank>  * ran my version regression script
<juliank>  * uploaded update-notifier motd stuff to disco
<juliank>  * committed (regression) test case for apt/trusty regression to apt 1.8.y branch
<juliank>  * answering APT questions on IRC and email
<juliank>  * filed another gnome-shell bug and forwarded the last one to upstream
<juliank>  * fixed up the update-notifier upload to add missing build-dependency
<juliank>  * SRUed update-notifier ESM stuff to trusty
<juliank>  * Reviewing and merging apt merge requests
<juliank> (done)
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * checked openjdk11 sru transition for changed conffiles and if u-u breaks
<rbalint> * made lintian autpkgtes parallel
<rbalint> * gardened branches in lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/+source/systemd , please use it for preparing new uploads
<rbalint> * joined a few discussions
<rbalint> * uploaded fix for LP: #1823125
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1823125 in tomcat9 (Ubuntu Bionic) "tomcat9 fails to install in 18.04" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823125
<rbalint> * added ubuntu-wsl to ubuntu-meta, seed change reviews are pending
<infinity> rbalint: Can that lintian change be forwarded to Debian.  I'd hate to carry a delta just for that.
<bdmurray> juliank: Is your version regression script anywhere other people can use it?
<rbalint> infinity, it is done and merged
<infinity> rbalint: Ahh, excellent, it wasn't when I looked.
<juliank> bdmurray: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/W2bd6pJ334/
<bdmurray> juliank: Does update-notifier need reviewing for trusty?
<juliank> bdmurray: sil2100 approved it
<bdmurray> okay
 * sil2100 was fast in the morning
<sil2100> But now I'm slow again
<infinity> rbalint: Also, were you (done)?
 * juliank heads out, started too early today and still recovering from hearing loss on Monday, so going for a walk
<rbalint> (done)
<infinity>  * last-minute merges (dpkg, lsb, etc)
<infinity>  * help investigating Qt/KDE s390x issues
<infinity>  * prepping (hopfully) final glibc upload for disco
<infinity>  * SO MANY QUEUE REVIEWS
<infinity> (done)
<infinity> PS: Won't be here for squad standup this afternoon; I have a doctor's appt.
<vorlon> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> * openjdk-11 bionic security transition
<tdaitx>   - reviewing update excuses adt failures
<tdaitx>   - investigating conffiles modification based on rbalint's u-u bb to bb-proposed work
<tdaitx>   - looked over libreoffice issues/fixes
<tdaitx> * looking at pending merges
<tdaitx> (done)
<rbalint> infinity, the -j flag was dropped in lintian instead of my change
<vorlon>  * short week, was off all last week
<vorlon>  * end of cycle reviews (NEW, unapproved, etc)
<vorlon>  * SRU reviews (openssl into bionic-proposed)
<vorlon>  * proposed-migration: shepherding the various stuck things
<vorlon>  * code reviews for automating nvidia driver support in GKE
<vorlon>  * code review of tooling to manage all the different signed kernels now https://code.launchpad.net/~apw/ubuntu-archive-tools/copy-proposed-kernels-routing-updates/+merge/365420
<infinity> rbalint: Yeah, it should auto-j without it, as I read the code.  Works for me.
<vorlon>  * discussions around final plan for OpenJDK11 SRU release
<vorlon> (done)
<vorlon> oh, also discussing removing the rails packages
<vorlon> (double-done)
<vorlon> xnox:
<xnox> * subiquity, reviews/merges/releases/testing/ci-debug
<xnox> * openssl-sru revisions & fixes / debugging wget-ssl
<xnox>   - openssl 1.1.1 is in bionic-proposed now \o/
<xnox> * done
<rbalint> vorlon, (well done) :-)
<waveform> * tested armhf+arm64 disco images on variety of pi platforms (3B, 3B+, 3A+, CM3, CM3+), need to test 2B images this week
<waveform> * updated linux-firmware-raspi2 package to latest firmware release (in PPA; will need SRU for CM3+ boot on bionic)
<waveform> * SRU verification for netplan.io, #1819014
<waveform> * worked on python3.7 fix on armhf, #1821869
<waveform> * resolved reviews of pi "amazing" spec
<waveform> * finished pi first boot spec, currently in review
<waveform> * investigating zfs on pi issue, #1822797
<waveform> * verifying pi-bluetooth configuration on classic
<waveform> * learning console-conf ... for my sins
<waveform> (done)
<cyphermox> - netplan SRU verifications
<cyphermox> - grub2 SRU verifications
<cyphermox> - fixed missing grub-check-sig run in trusty's grub2 SRU (grub2-signed/1.34.20)
<cyphermox> - investigating how I can setup an openstack lab for more better netplan testing
<cyphermox> - revised https://code.launchpad.net/~cyphermox/debian-cd/nomodeset/+merge/364344
<cyphermox> - ubiquity slideshow update
<cyphermox> - looking at ubiquity bugs
<cyphermox> - sponsored livecd-rootfs/2.575 for r.c.j; fix duplicate snap listings in manifest
<cyphermox> - reran cross-toolchain-base-mipsen tests a few times, still tracking down i386 failures
<cyphermox> (medium rare done?)
<doko> tdaitx: lo is now addressed
<doko> - currently at Linaro Connect
<doko> - GCC updates for bionic and cosmic
<doko> - openjdk 11 11.0.3+5
<doko> - pestered^W helped waveform to setup arm* chroots
<doko> - python3.x uploads to address bus error (fixed by waveform)
<doko> (done)
<waveform> :)
<sil2100> - Sick most last week and on Monday-ish + holidays last week, doctor appointments
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<cyphermox> waveform: thanks for the sru verif btw :)
<sil2100> - Releasing of many kernels, new kernel cycle starting
<sil2100> - core18:
<sil2100>   * Preparing the PR for date-based version numbers
<sil2100>   * Debugging the date-based version change, poking with m_vo + finally getting help from Sergio - now done!
<sil2100>   * Lots of PR reviews, corrections and merges
<sil2100>   * Experimenting with snap prepare-image --classic
<sil2100>   * Some progress on the core18 promoter scripting
<sil2100> - Review and merge of the more-strict-parser PR to ubuntu-image
<sil2100> - Reviewing the Raspi Pi specs (times two!)
<sil2100> - Some pi discussions here and there
<sil2100> - Fixing the core18 auto-snap-builder to properly notice packages in the additional PPAs
<sil2100> - Helping out with the systemd SRU autopkgtest regressions to make the package releasable today
<sil2100> - FFe and UIFe reviews
<sil2100> (good done)
<tdaitx> doko: yeah, when I was looking at the issue I noticed you had uploaded the fix for it
<bdmurray> searched for duplicates of LP: #1811694 - found a couple
<bdmurray> investigation into apport crash LP: #1820132 - missing executable
<bdmurray> wrote an apport test case for add_gdb_info about a missing executable
<bdmurray> uploaded apport to disco with fixes for LP: #1809247, LP: #1396160 and the above bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1811694 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Disco) "/usr/sbin/aptd:RuntimeError:_inline_callbacks:get_uid_from_dbus_name:return_value:_inline_callbacks:_check_simulated:_inline_callbacks" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1811694
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1820132 in apport (Ubuntu Disco) "/usr/share/apport/whoopsie-upload-all:AssertionError:/usr/share/apport/whoopsie-upload-all@162:collect_info:process_report:add_gdb_info:gdb_command" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1820132
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1809247 in apport (Ubuntu Disco) "SetReportCrashes to true dbus call failed" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1809247
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1396160 in apport (Ubuntu Disco) "/usr/share/apport/recoverable_problem:PermissionError:/usr/share/apport/recoverable_problem@75:main:add_proc_info" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1396160
<bdmurray> also modified apport's relationship with policykit in part b/c of LP: #1821415
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1821415 in policykit-1 (Ubuntu) "pkexec fails in a non-graphical environment" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821415
<bdmurray> research into LP: #1822886, testing of possible upgrade failure scenarios
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1822886 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "universe missing after bionic->cosmic do-release-upgrade" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1822886
<bdmurray> worked on a better method for u-r-u to check for releases and archive has
<bdmurray> approved netplan.io SRU exception
<bdmurray> review of juliank's update-notifier esm changes
<bdmurray> well done
<bdmurray> vorlon: I think that's everyone
<vorlon> great
<vorlon> any questions?
<vorlon> #topic Release incoming bugs (disco)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release incoming bugs (disco)
<vorlon> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> bdmurray: ?
<bdmurray> bug 1821677 was tagged by doko and but it was on 4/1
<ubottu> bug 1821677 in glibc (Ubuntu) "dl_open segment fault in ubuntu18.10 glibc2.28" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821677
<vorlon> I see there's a new bug reporting a segfault in a glic we're not shipping
<infinity> Hrm?
<doko> I got a ping from upstream about that, didn't look at that in detail
<vorlon> from upstream of what?
<doko> glibc
<doko> glibc/intel
<infinity> "not shipping"?
<xnox> desktop team?
<vorlon> infinity: the bug report says 2.28
<infinity> Which is in cosmic.
<vorlon> but it's been marked dd-incoming
<vorlon> is it also reproducible in disco?
<infinity> That would be doko.
<infinity> I'll have a look at that today/tomorrow (doctor/etc premitting today) before I do the disco upload.
<vorlon> infinity: so you think we should commit to fixing it in disco?
<vorlon> (I can't reproduce it here on either cosmic or disco)
<infinity> Can't reproduce with their test case?
<infinity> Well, that might make it harder. :P
<infinity> I was committing to look, not to fix if I can't repro.
<vorlon> infinity: I'm not using their so, which I don't see attached
<vorlon> maybe it's in this tarball
<vorlon> anyway, I guess we can tentatively commit and uncommit later
 * infinity nods.
<vorlon> ok, targeting
<vorlon> bdmurray: next?
<infinity> make: *** [Makefile:10: runtest] Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<infinity> Seems to repro here.
<vorlon> ok
<bdmurray> bug 1820676
<ubottu> bug 1820676 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Something has gone seriously wrong: import_mok_state0 failed" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1820676
<vorlon> infinity: (I was trying to repro from the bug description, not the attached tarall)
<vorlon> b
<infinity> Might have been a mismerge of that patch, or just needs more ifdef arm.
<doko> I can confirm this one, renaming the exe helped
<vorlon> cyphermox: ^^ is that not fixed in the disco dailies?
<vorlon> related to missing mmx64
<cyphermox> it was fixed not long ago
<vorlon> was it fixed after 3/18? :)
<cyphermox> checking
<infinity> Would have been right around then.
<vorlon> bdmurray: let us follow up on that, it's probably fixed
<cyphermox> 3/20
<infinity> Cause the images weren't getting the new d-i bits due to a hung build on nusakan.
<cyphermox> spot checking on cdimage.u.c shows that ubuntu-mate and ubuntu dailies have the file
<infinity> Yeah, they all should now.
<bdmurray> that's all I noticed in dd-incoming
<cyphermox> yup
<vorlon> yeah I've followed up on the bug
<vorlon> I'm not bothering to target to disco because if there is a bug, it's probably not in a package in the archive
<vorlon> anyway I will follow through
<vorlon> bdmurray: what aout LP: #1815599 and LP: #1812688 that are on the report?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1815599 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "multipath shows '#:#:#:#' for iscsi device after error injection" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815599
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1812688 in automake-1.16 (Ubuntu) "self-check-report.sh fails on armhf/disco, was set to skip as an ubuntu delta without explanation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1812688
<bdmurray> the multipath one is incomplete, has it been updated?
<vorlon> xnox nominated the first
<vorlon> no
<vorlon> so I guess we can ignore
<vorlon> the other one, I tried to close and seb128 called me on it because I didn't read bdmurray's previous comment right
<xnox> vorlon, the multipath one was handindled by cpaelzer a bit
<vorlon> bdmurray: I think we should decline LP: #1812688, if we were willing to override the test to ignore the failure, it must not be critical enough to block a release
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1812688 in automake-1.16 (Ubuntu) "self-check-report.sh fails on armhf/disco, was set to skip as an ubuntu delta without explanation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1812688
<bdmurray> vorlon: okay
<vorlon> done
<vorlon> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Team proposed-migration report
<vorlon> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> I'm looking at apport
<vorlon> xnox: fuse-zip status?
<doko> g inggs pinged several times about scipy
<vorlon> I see you merged a new upstream version of fuse-zip, so that it can now fail its tests consistently on all archs
<infinity> vorlon, doko: Should cross-toolchain-base-whatever be addded to huge packages in autopkgtest, or should the massively massive (with hugeness) rebuild test maybe be pared down?
<vorlon> doko: I know he pinged me while I was on vacation and not in a position to do anything with it.  If someone has a clear rationale for ignoring that test failure, MPs welcome
<xnox> vorlon, didn't get to it, but also not critical to migrate as far as i remember. yes which is an "improvement" =) my next trick was going to be to cherrypick fuse patch from upstream, or comment out / ignore the test that doesn't do the right clean up.
<xnox> vorlon, skipping one test, makes it all pass locally.
<cyphermox> infinity: +1, I think?
<xnox> (the test that tries to setup invalid/broken state, and assert on it)
<cyphermox> cross-toolchain-base-mipsen?
<doko> infinity: it's building exactly *one* cross toolchain. you could reduce the load further by not building the multilibs
<xnox> not sure what i should do about fuse-zip. horum.
 * xnox tries to trow things into bileto ppa, to make it stick.
<doko> but vorlon wanted to look why it takes so much longer in some builds
<vorlon> xnox: "not critical to migrate" - someone in this channel uplodaed fuse with the intent that it release, and you committed to resolve this
<doko> xnox: should we remove fuse & fuse-zip from -proposed?
<vorlon> xnox: so if you're following up, all good
<xnox> vorlon, yes, and when i questioned why fuse was synced post debian import freeze no reply followed. doko - do you recall why we need/want new fuse?
<xnox> vorlon, but kind of can kicking, removing fuse now from -proposed will just come back in a couple of weeks.
<doko> I forgot, it was something to fulfill b-d's probably
<xnox> and well needs to be folved now, or later.
<xnox> doko, ah, and now they are built, we don't need it anymore, right ?! =)))))))) har har
<vorlon> we wouldn't know, since we can't launch new rebuild tests
<xnox> =)
<gaughen> vorlon, lies.  ;-)
<vorlon> heh
<gaughen> so what are we doing with fuse?
<gaughen> removing it?
<infinity> Removing it is pointless.
<gaughen> so what are we doing with fuse?
<vorlon> infinity, doko: cross-toolchain-base: the issue was the variance in build times, which doko pointed to as an indicator of a problem in the autopkgtest infra; but I don't think giving it a bigger testbed prevents us from still doing that analysis
<vorlon> gaughen: xnox has a list of next steps for getting it migratable
<gaughen> k
<vorlon> and sphinx is still there
<xnox> vorlon, que?
<xnox> is it only me that gets very choppy audio
<xnox> vorlon, i can't hear you at all...
<waveform> xnox, audio's fine for me
<vorlon> xnox: sphinx, my recollection is that you were going to follow up on #ubuntu-release to sort out what to do about sphinx vs webkit2gtk, and I don't think that happened
<xnox> vorlon, we did talk about it with the desktop team, but i can't remember if we conclude something or not.
<vorlon> xnox: I didn't see a conclusion and it didn't get fixed in the archive :)
<vorlon> xnox: shall we try again to take this to #ubuntu-release after this meeting? ;)
<xnox> hm.
<vorlon> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<rbalint> i'd like to have LP: #1821924 rc
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1821924 in lxd (Ubuntu) "LXD Deb->snap transition fails in WSL due to snap command not working (yet)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821924
<rbalint> because it breaks do-release-upgrade which is ours
<rbalint> lxd is not maintained by our team, but release team could weigh in
<bdmurray> is rc a verb there?
<rbalint> release critical
<infinity> release criticalified
<bdmurray> rc'ed then
<rbalint> ok :-)
<infinity> Inappropriate apostrophe alert.
<rbalint> any comment on the actual bug?
<vorlon> so, since snaps don't work under wsl, should the lxd deb be removed as part of the upgrade?
<bdmurray> don't we do that with gnome-calculator and other desktop packages?
<xnox> vorlon, i think that's valid, at least for now. at the moment the new .deb fails to configure, blocking upgrade.
<xnox> vorlon, and it may happen on non-wsl systems too.
<xnox> vorlon, imho the error code path on snapd-less systems when doing do-release-upgrade is currently very bad.
<vorlon> it sounds like this is something we need to take offline
<vorlon> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  4 16:04:59 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-04-04-15.01.moin.txt
<vorlon> thanks, all
<sil2100> vorlon: thanks o/
<rbalint> o/
<tdaitx> vorlon: yes, it is a new blocker, rbalint set it as In Progress but it is unassigned, not sure if he is handling that
<tdaitx> his status included "uploaded fix for LP: #1823125"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1823125 in tomcat9 (Ubuntu Bionic) "tomcat9 fails to install in 18.04" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823125
<Kilos> o/
 * bashfulrobot leaving the sword at the door, but looking for coffee.
<diddledan> yeah, I'm here
<Kilos> vlijm  ping
<vlijm> Hey guys!
<diddledan> hello hello
<Kilos> hi vlijm
<bashfulrobot> heyo vlijm !
<vlijm> I'm in :)
<wxl> ok we all ready to go?
<bashfulrobot> I'm good
<diddledan> yup
<vlijm> I am!
<wxl> ok
<wxl> #startmeeting Ubuntu Membership Board 20:00
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  4 20:34:33 2019 UTC.  The chair is wxl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Ubuntu Membership Board 20:00 Meeting | Current topic:
<wxl> #meetingtopic Jacob Vlijm
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Jacob Vlijm Meeting | Current topic:
<wxl> hm that's weird
<bashfulrobot> ?
<wxl> #meetingtopic Ubuntu Membership Board 20:00
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Ubuntu Membership Board 20:00 Meeting | Current topic:
<wxl> #topic Jacob Vlijm
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Ubuntu Membership Board 20:00 Meeting | Current topic: Jacob Vlijm
<wxl> there
<wxl> that's right
<wxl> ok
<wxl> Hi Jacob :)
<diddledan> we know what we're doing :-)
<vlijm> Hi, and thanks fo meeting me
<bashfulrobot> Trust us.
<vlijm> I do :)
<wxl> i mean there are some things i know, at least
<Kilos> brave man
<wxl> Anyways, please introduce yourself, give us your wiki & Launchpad pages and tell us anything you might feel relevant.
<vlijm> her we go: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/vlijm
<vlijm> Ubuntu user since 2011 (I believe), currently member of the Ubuntu Budgie core team
<vlijm> Ask Ubuntu active user
<vlijm> What can I say?
<vlijm> wrote quite a lot of stuff for Unity (mostly indicators)
<vlijm> Now writing stuff for Ubuntu Budgie etc.
<vlijm> Oh, wait you asked for Launchpad, that's ~vlijm
 * bashfulrobot posts easy link - https://launchpad.net/~vlijm
<wxl> Great!
<wxl> Anyone here want to give kudos and support of Jacob?
<bashfulrobot> Is it appropriate if I left a testimonial?
<wxl> Sure, doesn't hurt :)
<diddledan> yes, popey did that for me when I joined and he was on the board at that time :-p
<bashfulrobot> Well in that case....
 * popey arrives
<Kilos> hi popey
<diddledan> damn. when you speak ill of the devil
 * wxl images popey swooping in like Batman
<diddledan> wxl: in his underwear? or was that Superman?
<wxl> diddledan: I'm not sure whether or not popey has Batman underwear
<diddledan> ... must be professional. :-p
<popey> I just dropped by to say "holy cow" at the amount of work Jacob does on askubuntu. It's very impressive.
<fossfreedom> \o ... happy to endorse Jacob - as project lead of UB have watched with interest how Jacob has made UB what it is today.  Equally in AU land - active and dynamic and eveyone just loves his well thought out contributions. Credit to Ubuntu
<vlijm> :) thanks a lot!
<bashfulrobot> Jacob (when he joined UB) came in mostly writing applets in Python. When we have a need to move these over to Vala - it did not even phase him even though one can argue over the merits of each language. We all have our fav tools. He dove right in. Continues to drive new features into the ecosystem that people outside of Ubuntu take advantage of. Does his best to support there as well. It is not uncommon for us to see Majaro users
<bashfulrobot> in our forums who use some of the applets he has written. He is very active on a consistent basis in our team channels, Ask Ubuntu, our Discourse forum, etc. He spends the time.
<vlijm> Thing is, always difficult to tell about oneself I guess, so please fire away
<wxl> Membership Board: any questions for Jacob?
<Kilos> nope i am happy
<diddledan> I'm good :-)
<bashfulrobot> I'm good
<bashfulrobot> My opinion is pretty clear above. :-)
<wxl> Ok then I guess it's voting time..
<vlijm> Wow, that's quick
<wxl> #vote membership of Jacob Vlijm
<meetingology> Please vote on: membership of Jacob Vlijm
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<bashfulrobot> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bashfulrobot
<wxl> +1 amazing work! keep it up!
<meetingology> +1 amazing work! keep it up! received from wxl
<Kilos> +1 keep up the great work and welcome onboard
<meetingology> +1 keep up the great work and welcome onboard received from Kilos
<diddledan> +1 really thorough wiki page. lots of amazing endorsements. well done. Excellent work!
<meetingology> +1 really thorough wiki page. lots of amazing endorsements. well done. Excellent work! received from diddledan
<vlijm> Wow!! You guys make me happy
<Kilos> happy people work better
<diddledan> so get to work!
<diddledan> :-p
<bashfulrobot> ha ha
<Kilos> lol
<wxl> oh i guess i should have done votes required
<wxl> wonder if this will break now
<vlijm> Hehe.
<wxl> #votesrequired +3
<meetingology> votes now need 3 to be passed
 * bashfulrobot the suspense....
<wxl> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: membership of Jacob Vlijm
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<wxl> there we go
<diddledan> yey
<vlijm> Yay!!
<fossfreedom> congrats vlijm - well deserved
<bashfulrobot> Welcome!
<wxl> congrats, vlijm !
<Kilos> well done
<diddledan> well done vlijm :-) congratulations
<vlijm> Thanks so much :)
 * bashfulrobot off to my next meeting (in the day job).
<Kilos> lol
<Kilos> keep smiling
<diddledan> shall we #endmeeting?
<wxl> oh oops yes
<vlijm> Thanks guys, see you later I guess
<wxl> i was adding him to members
<wxl> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  4 20:53:08 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-04-04-20.34.moin.txt
<diddledan> yey
<diddledan> thanks for chairing, wxl
<Kilos> ty wxl
<wxl> ok you're a member vlijm :)
<vlijm> Greatgreat.
<wxl> vlijm: don't froget to pick up your perks https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership#The_Perks .. some of those things aren't automagic
<Kilos> guiver_d  you here?
<guiver_d> yep
<guiver_d> Kilos: yes
<Kilos> sorry just checking the board
<Kilos> if all are available we can do you now
<guiver_d> Yep.  just got a fresh tea.
<Wild_Man> Hello guiverc
<guiverc> Howdy Wild_Man
<wxl> ok here we go again
<diddledan> this is fun :-p
<wxl> #startmeeting Ubuntu Membership Board @2100
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  4 21:09:08 2019 UTC.  The chair is wxl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Ubuntu Membership Board @2100 Meeting | Current topic:
<wxl> #topic Chris Guiver
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Ubuntu Membership Board @2100 Meeting | Current topic: Chris Guiver
<wxl> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board meeting! The wiki page for the Review Boards are available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<wxl> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<wxl> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<wxl> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<wxl> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<wxl> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the majority of the voting board members vote +1, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<wxl> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<diddledan> oh you found the script :-)
<wxl> yep. always improving :)
<wxl> That said, Chris, fire away!
<guiverc> wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/guiverc
<guiverc> Hi, my name is Chris, first involved with Ubuntu with UWN (issue #425, July 2015) with 125 now contribs.  I'm a medically retired coder (s390/z-series now) with pain issues, so at times concentration is lacking..
<wxl> Thanks for the intro, Chris!
<wxl> Is anyone here in support of Chris?
<guiverc> I haven't (& wouldn't) asked anyone - if that's were you're heading wxl
<Kilos> wxl  you know Chris?
<wxl> Ok, well just checking.
<wxl> Kilos: yeah Chris has long been a heavy QA tester. Like across the entire gamut of flavors. He's also very good at writing and testing and updating bugs. It's hard not to see his name mentioned on Ask Ubuntu. More recently, he's been helping with Lubuntu and has been an utter Godsend. He's an all around great guy :)
<Wild_Man> Chris does outstanding work for the UWN and has for several years now
<Kilos> ty wxl  that alone eases my mind
<Wild_Man> Chris also publishes to the fridge
<wxl> Any questions for Chris or should we go ahead and vote?
<Kilos> i am ready to vote
<diddledan> I think I'm good
<Wild_Man> Ready
<wxl> #vote Chris Guiver membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Chris Guiver membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<wxl> #votesrequired +3
<meetingology> votes now need 3 to be passed
<Kilos> +1 keep it up
<meetingology> +1 keep it up received from Kilos
<Wild_Man> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Wild_Man
<wxl> +1 you do amazing work across the entire spectrum of Ubuntu and I thank you for it!
<meetingology> +1 you do amazing work across the entire spectrum of Ubuntu and I thank you for it! received from wxl
<diddledan> +1 I would have liked to have seen a testimonial or two on your wiki page, but from the remaining evidence I am still happy to give you a thumbs up
<meetingology> +1 I would have liked to have seen a testimonial or two on your wiki page, but from the remaining evidence I am still happy to give you a thumbs up received from diddledan
<wxl> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Chris Guiver membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<wxl> Congrats and welcome to the family, officially, guiverc :)
<diddledan> congratulations, guiverc
<Kilos> congrats guiverc
<Wild_Man> Congratulations guiverc
<guiverc> Thanks all
<Wild_Man> Thank You!
<wxl> guiverc: don't forget to pick up your perks :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership#The_Perks
<Kilos> ty again wxl and board members
<wxl> thanks all
<wxl> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  4 21:25:37 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-04-04-21.09.moin.txt
<wxl> mIk3_08: you ready for the membership meeting?
<Wild_Man> Hello mIk3_08 and welcome!
<Kilos> hi mIk3_08
<Wild_Man> mIk3_08, are you ready?
<Wild_Man> Hello mIk3_08, the 22:00 meeting has been canceled since you have not replied to our hello's
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-03-31
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: didrocks: jamespage: doko: sarnold: joeubuntu: pre-MIR meeting ping for awareness
 * cpaelzer lights the campfire
<ddstreet> o/
<joeubuntu> morning cpaelzer ddstreet
<ddstreet> joeubuntu o/
<cpaelzer> ok - one more ping for everyone and then lets kick this off
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: didrocks: jamespage: doko: sarnold: joeubuntu:
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 31 13:01:15 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer> the one thing I remember being open was that doko wanted to review (or discuss with sil2100) about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-firmware-raspi2/+bug/1867813
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1867813 in linux-firmware-raspi2 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] linux-firmware-raspi2 to restricted" [High,New]
<cpaelzer> I don't see an update on the bug
<cpaelzer> doko: speak up if there are any update on this
<cpaelzer> other than that we maybe should do the bug-assignment to you so that this is clear to everyone not reading the meeting logs
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> sorry I'm a little late
<cpaelzer> np
<doko> cpaelzer: no, didn't touch yt
<cpaelzer> ok, I updated the bug so it is clear
<cpaelzer> you have another week for it (and another, ...) :-)
<cpaelzer> Noth further open items I'd know of
<cpaelzer> next topic would be the - today very interesting - component mismatches
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cpaelzer> This would be empty (what a nice picture this would be) if not for "Ubuntu.Focal supported-maas seed"
<cpaelzer> this is due to https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=eaef590aa2868e98d67c114bbc655be1964ddf6f
<jamespage> apport depends on terminator?
<cpaelzer> jamespage: that is a bad alternative listing
<jamespage> I was aware of the mismatch for websockify -> python-jwcrypto
<jamespage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-jwcrypto/+bug/1869215
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1869215 in python-jwcrypto (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-jwcrypto" [High,New]
<cpaelzer> yeah jamespage that one comes later in the "new" cases
<jamespage> mainly as I did the update and raised the MIR (I know it late)
<jamespage> ok
<cpaelzer> and apport was discussed last week
<cpaelzer> yet it isn't clear who is driving this to a conclusion (fixing d/control in apport)
<jamespage> so what do we need to discuss now about mismatches?
<cpaelzer> the maas seed change
<doko> foundations needs to talk with the MAAS team who will maintain these in the archive
<cpaelzer> ok is that ongoing doko?
<cpaelzer> there are even denied packages in this list (like ipmitool)
<doko> these are used to build the maas snap, however the team doesn't feel responsible to maintain those :-(
<cpaelzer> no good sportsmanship that is young padawan
<doko> just skip those for now.
<cpaelzer> doko: can we keep it as is and you'll let us know how the discussion continues?
<cpaelzer> ok
<doko> yes
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> I'm volunteering to take u-boot-rpi
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-jwcrypto/+bug/1869215 as mentioned by jamespage is up for grabs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1869215 in python-jwcrypto (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-jwcrypto" [High,New]
<cpaelzer> anyone?
<cpaelzer> this should be a rather easy python package
<ddstreet> i can take it, i suppose
<cpaelzer> since doko and I are currently assigned and jamespage filed it I'm looking towards didrocks / ddstreet for this
<cpaelzer> ah
<cpaelzer> thanks ddstreet
<cpaelzer> assigned
<cpaelzer> jamespage: I have to admit - milestone 20.03 is a bit intense for this
<cpaelzer> given that tomorrow is 20.04 :-)
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/octavia/+bug/1864666 was punted to 20.10
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1864666 in python-octavia-lib (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-octavia-lib, ovn-octavia-provider" [Medium,Incomplete]
<cpaelzer> nothing newer than that to work on
<cpaelzer> unless anyone of you disagrees
<cpaelzer> ok, silence means you are ok I guess :-)
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<ddstreet> yes,
<ddstreet> i'd like review of my reviews, if possible, either now or later
<ddstreet> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/realmd/+bug/1868154
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868154 in realmd (Ubuntu) "[MIR] realmd" [Medium,New]
<ddstreet> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adcli/+bug/1868159
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868159 in adcli (Ubuntu) "[MIR] adcli" [Medium,New]
<cpaelzer> I can do those tomorrow morning or late today
<cpaelzer> along u-boot-rpi
<ddstreet> cpaelzer one thing i may have missed (thinking about it now) is MIR requires a team to accept ownership of the pkgs, correct?  I think that should be added to the TODO checklist
<cpaelzer> I think it is in it
<cpaelzer> TODO: - The package has a team bug subscriber
<ddstreet> ah, i misinterpreted that then
<ddstreet> as *any* bug subscriber
<ddstreet> my bad
<ddstreet> perhaps that could be clarified, i assume only a limited set of lp teams are acceptible there, not just any team, right?
<ddstreet> anyway, we can discuss after you have time for a more detailed review
<ddstreet> thanks
<cpaelzer> ok I can do that in a query with you
<cpaelzer> nothing else I guess?
<cpaelzer> 10
<cpaelzer> 5
<cpaelzer> 3
<cpaelzer> 2
<cpaelzer> 1
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 13:17:30 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-03-31-13.01.moin.txt
<cpaelzer> thank you everyone
<jamespage> thanks cpaelzer
<jamespage> ddstreet, cpaelzer: soooo... websockify and spice-html5
<jamespage> I completely foobar'ed spice-html5 - its still not been updated to the 0.2.x series, although we have tested OK with OpenStack
<jamespage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-jwcrypto/+bug/1869215 was a new depends of websockify which has been promoted to main
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1869215 in python-jwcrypto (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-jwcrypto" [High,New]
<jamespage> but without the spice-html5 adapter we don't have a complete dependency chain under support
<didrocks> sorry, was lost in grub git rebasing
<didrocks> just backlog, sounds ok, ut do not hesitate to ping me if anything
<ddstreet> jamespage seems like websockify in ubuntu is already newer than debian, are you saying we need to update spice-html5 to 0.2 series without debian also?
<jamespage> ddstreet: welcome to openstack in ubuntu :)
<ddstreet> lol
<jamespage> kinda - I was raising that the three projects are all inter-linked
<jamespage> i.e. unless I do the spice-html5 updates, the MIR can't complete
<jamespage> but we're at beta freeze so I'll make myself somewhat unpopular
<jamespage> so either I make myself (more) unpopular and we go for it for 20.04
<jamespage> or we push websockify back to universe and push all three out to 20.10
<ddstreet> i'll defer to cpaelzer and you as i'm new to MIR, though of course one of those options saves me MIR review work ;)
<cpaelzer> jamespage: websockify again
<cpaelzer> didn't we have that discussed in the past
<cpaelzer> on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/websockify/+bug/1108935 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1108935 in spice-html5 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] websockify, spice-html5" [High,Confirmed]
<cpaelzer> jamespage: you are talking about the constraints I set in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/websockify/+bug/1108935 I guess
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1108935 in spice-html5 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] websockify, spice-html5" [High,Confirmed]
<cpaelzer> there even is a 2.2
<cpaelzer> and more fixes
<cpaelzer> so yeah I'd still prefer an update beofre promoting that to main
<cpaelzer> and while I understand tha no one wants to be (more) unpopular long term you'd be happy you have the newer version
<cpaelzer> I agreee to "unpopular and we go for it for 20.04" or "push all three out to 20.10"
<cpaelzer> but which of those you pick is your decision jamespage
<cpaelzer> as it is your gain (cool features) and your pain (being unpopular)
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-04-01
<handsome_feng> Hi, is there the right place to request the addition of package set? I have post 2 emails to devel-permissions, and as things are urgent, I need to ask here.
<handsome_feng> ddstreet: Hi, do you have the power to modify package set? or do you know who has the right? I saw slashd is away...
<xnox> bdmurray:  ^^^
<rbasak> handsome_feng: I suggest you find a sponsor with what you need for now
<rbasak> The packageset generation scripts are non-trivial to adjust.
<handsome_feng> rbasak: RikMills  have sponsored it for me, but when will the packageset refreshed?
<rbasak> handsome_feng: give us some time please. Most of the DMB are new and not familiar with the tooling. We meet every two weeks
<handsome_feng> rbasak: Sorry, I'm not  mean to push youï¼just don't know much about the process... Just take your time and thanks for your work :)  (And I think "Do you know when will the packageset refreshed" will be better? since without "do you know" seems like I'm push you, Sorry! )
<rbasak> handsome_feng: thank you. Sorry I had misunderstood you.
<handsome_feng> nop, :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-04-02
<luna_> Hello, translators meeting in 1 minute?
<bdmurray> I'm pretty sure its the Ubuntu Foundations team meeting next.
<sil2100> I think there was supposed to be the Ubuntu foundations meeting right now
<luna_> bdmurray: ah maybe i had the wrong times in my calendar?
<luna_> you know when that usally is?
<juliank> o/
<luna_> says both in my Google calender in the same channel
<luna_> so sorry for the confusion
<juliank> timezone screwup i guess
<waveform> o/
<slyon> o/
 * vorlon waves
<sil2100> o/
<rbalint> o/
<luna_> blob:https://imgur.com/14016814-4e08-44aa-8b13-ecaa86f358e8
<luna_> https://i.imgur.com/5mCNehu.png
<luna_> sorry won't bother you then
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  2 15:01:49 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
<bdmurray> slyon tdaitx waveform doko bdmurray juliank vorlon sil2100 mwhudson rbalint infinity xnox
<luna_> be back in 1 hour then sorry
<bdmurray> slyon:
<slyon> * implemented test suite for NetworkManager readwrite netplan plugin
<slyon>   -> first basic unit tests
<slyon>   -> enable r/w access to test config files
<slyon> * implemented reading & writing of basic netplan YAML (MAC/IP4/IP6) inside NM plugin
<slyon> * reworked and finalized netplan's GSM & CDMA support
<slyon> * implemented missing netplan WiFi features: bssid/band/channel/seen-bssids
<slyon>   -> those are required by the NetworkManager readwrite plugin
<slyon> * implemented missing netplan IP6 feature: addr-gen-mode
<slyon>   -> this is required by the NetworkManager readwrite plugin, too
<slyon> * will continue working on netplan & NM plugin, to make it ready for release
<slyon> (done)
<bdmurray> tdaitx:
<bdmurray> waveform:
<tdaitx> not exactly done, but there it goes
<tdaitx> * update excuses failures
<tdaitx> * reviewed openjdk updates
<tdaitx> * looked over upstream changes for jtreg/jtharness
<tdaitx> * ftbfs
<tdaitx> (done)
<waveform> * Worked on uc20 boot sequence (setting up test bed, more tweaking of boot script)
<waveform> * Updated boot partition for focal (audio enabled by default, cleaned up split of non-BT/BT config files on boot partition, added more examples to cloud-init seed)
<waveform> * Prepped MIRs for things missing from main (u-boot-rpi, LP: #1869792, waiting on some feedback before filing the linux-raspi2 one)
<waveform> * Final tweaks for pibootctl, including needs-packaging, LP: #1870100
<waveform> * Investigating DHCP4 issue on Pi3's noticed by bdmurray - not sure which package it should be filed against yet - might be systemd related
<waveform> * Wrote cloud-init blog post
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1869792 in u-boot (Ubuntu) "[MIR] u-boot-rpi" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869792
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1870100 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] pibootctl" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870100
<waveform> (done)
<bdmurray> waveform: do you have a link to your blog post?
<bdmurray> doko:
<waveform> bdmurray, not yet - I'm setting up a pi to host it - so I can have a blog about ubuntu on a pi on ubuntu on a pi :)
<doko>  - fix remaining (?) python build-depends (~120 packages)
<doko>  - second focal test rebuild, filed bug reports
<doko>  - meeting with MAAS to organize some maintenance of MAAS related packages
<doko>  - gcc-N builds
<doko>  - fixing ftbfs
<doko>  - extracted and forwarded three GCC issue upstream
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> bdmurray: !
<bdmurray> reviewed, merged, uploaded xnox's u-r-u quirk for python-is-python2
<bdmurray> much work on ubuntu-security-status (fixes for Ubuntu 16.04 LTS)
<bdmurray> created a skeleton subiquity apport package hook to send bugs to the project
<bdmurray> iso-testing - encountered http://launchpad.net/bugs/1869591
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1869591 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "After install the window 'ready to go' is locked" [High,Fix released]
<bdmurray> created an MP for http://launchpad.net/bugs/1845690
<bdmurray> investigation into bluetoothd crashing and apport
<bdmurray> updating of FocalFossa/ReleaseNotes wiki page
<bdmurray> Beta release work
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1845690 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Do not offer an upgrade from i386 systems" [High,In progress]
<bdmurray> â done
<juliank> * merged apt-xapian-index
<juliank> * investigated autopkgtest image creation failure, and why it did not notify anyone, built fixed images
<juliank> * early implementation for LP: #1825000 - some privacy concerns over sending service names
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825000 in apt (Ubuntu) "Add ability for mirrors to distinguish interactive and non-interactive apt runs" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825000
<juliank> * added missing dh-python build depends to apt-clone (LP: #1870047) and aptdaemon (LP: #1870049)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1870047 in apt-clone (Ubuntu) "apt-clone ftfbfs in focal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870047
<juliank> * resilient boot - support for multiple ESPs in grub (https://code.launchpad.net/~juliank/grub/+git/ubuntu/+merge/381462)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1870049 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "aptdaemon ftbfs in focal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870049
<juliank> * preparing a FFe for powerpc-utils to merge the latest smt state preservation changes from upstream (LP: #1870311)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1870311 in powerpc-utils (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Persistent SMT state" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870311
<juliank> * pinged shim-review issue (https://github.com/rhboot/shim-review/issues/92)
<juliank> (done)
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<xnox> doko:  do we need to snapshot dist-check, and can i upload "provides: python" on python-is-python2? or like keep it blocked in proposed?
<vorlon>  * was out last week and on Tuesday, so short week
<vorlon>  * working on finalizing netplan spec for openvswitch support
<vorlon>  * processing package removal requests
<vorlon>  * queue reviews for beta
<vorlon>  * misc proposed-migration work
<vorlon> (done)
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - A few NEW reviews
<sil2100> - 20.04 Beta - ongoing, lots of stuff, virtual sprint, respins, reviews, infra fixes, holy cow!
<sil2100> - netplan:
<sil2100>   * Reviewed the gsm to modems rename PR for Lukas
<sil2100>   * Refactored SR-IOV WIP code to move it into a separate module
<sil2100>   * Working on unit-testing - having a terrible experience
<sil2100>   * Browsed through available SR-IOV hardware, bought an SR-IOV NIC for testing
<sil2100> - Working on some ubuntu-image changes for uc20
<sil2100> - Looking into some pi gadget stuff, promoting latest pi gadget to stable
<sil2100> - Fixed bileto to not enable all architectures on silos but only those supported by the destination archive
<sil2100> - Reverted shim and shim-signed in the archive to the previous version
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<rbalint> * unattended-upgrades 2.1 fixing a crash + speedups
<rbalint> * proposed-migration: lintian fix (in unapproved), uchardet
<rbalint> * fixing systemd bugs/regressions
<rbalint> * prepared 245.3 to land in Focal, now preparing 245.4
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * last gardening of wslu bugs before reassigning the package to desktop team - good bye!
<rbalint> (done)
<rbalint> sil2100, could we have bileto require only builds enabled in ppa to trigger tests?>
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> UC20 on Pi boots to initrd.... but fails to find SD-card to boot. Investigating
<xnox> Fixing casper for all the things
<xnox> Subiquity & console-conf review, and shipping improvements
<xnox> Meetings about z, power, subiquity, maas
<xnox> done
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<doko> xnox: can we wait with this until we have all b-d's removed?
<sil2100> rbalint: I think we could, I guess at some point that was a plan
<sil2100> Not sure what happened to that, will look
<rbalint> sil2100, thanks, that would be great
<xnox> doko:  ok
<bdmurray> so there are a bunch of ftbfs bugs there
<bdmurray> I don't think we need to go over those individually
<rbalint> bdmurray, i think coordinating sharing them would be useful
<bdmurray> Should we just card them though?
<rbalint> bdmurray, that would work, too
<juliank> card them and randomly assign them?
<juliank> :D
<vorlon> the busybox one was already fixed
<vorlon> (because I wasn't working from a bug list, I was working from the report doko pointed us at)
<bdmurray> who is working on bug 1870056?
<ubottu> bug 1870056 in gnutls28 (Ubuntu) "gnutls28 ftbfs in focal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870056
<rbalint> juliank, then we can trade them for ones we like more :-)
<juliank> I can but I'm not so far
<doko> bdmurray: I did, in theq queue
<bdmurray> okay
<juliank> doko: please tag it fix committed after upload
<juliank> and assign yourself
<juliank> optimally
<bdmurray> juliank: are yours fix committed then?
<juliank> I know, I only moved the apt* oes to in progress
<juliank> but I moved them to fix committed now
<juliank> so yes now, but not like 10 mins ago
<bdmurray> vorlon: did you close the busybox one then?
<vorlon> bdmurray: just now, yes
<xnox> bdmurray:  i think i was gnutls28 but didn't do it?
<bdmurray> okay, so mclemenceau can you create cards for the other ftbfs bugs?
<bdmurray> bug 1870018
<ubottu> bug 1870018 in casper (Ubuntu) "Option (Ctrl-C) not shown to disable ISO verification" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870018
<bdmurray> xnox: did you say you might have a fix for that already?
<xnox> me
<xnox> yes, locally, not uploaded yet
<xnox> fixing more things
<bdmurray> okay, so targetting then
<bdmurray> and assigning
<juliank> I don't understand https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1869655
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1869655 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Add an Ubuntu splash logo to supplement the BGRT logo" [Wishlist,New]
<juliank> ah now i do
<xnox> juliank:  it's post-focal
<bdmurray> bug 1870060 seems important
<ubottu> bug 1870060 in apport (Ubuntu) "systemd ProtectSystem/mount namespace makes apport fail (impact most of our default system services)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870060
<juliank> xnox: champagne is a useless tag :/
<xnox> juliank:  changed it to rls-ff-notfixing
<bdmurray> we'll take and card that.
<bdmurray> have we looked at bug 1869187?
<ubottu> bug 1869187 in shim-signed (Ubuntu) "mokutil ignores timeout parameter" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869187
<juliank> oh I saw it
<juliank> card it
<bdmurray> There is a patch too
<juliank> we're not going to fix it though
<juliank> before release
<bdmurray> okay
<juliank> because we're waiting on the new shim sig
<bdmurray> bug 1835660 - xnox what is next there?
<ubottu> bug 1835660 in linux (Ubuntu) "initramfs unpacking failed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1835660
<xnox> bdmurray:  it'm talking about it with apw. he says something is missaligned, somebody needs to binwalk our initrds and validate if they are all rounded at the right boundries
<apw> xnox, my local one is an odd length, so i'd not be supprised if that is wrong
<xnox> Apr 01 14:50:15 ottawa kernel: Initramfs unpacking failed: Decoding failed
<apw> xnox, i am not totally sure it doesn't continue to use the up to now extracted bits
<xnox> apw: hmmmm
<xnox> apw:  what do you want me to give you to try? something with rounded early; something rounded both early; something rounded overall?
<apw> xnox, not sure, am going to try to reproduce it in a VM and see
<xnox> apw:  my focal host has it.
<vorlon> juliank: why can we not fix the mokutil invocation before release? it requires a packaging-only change to shim-signed
<apw> oh sorry just realises i am fact-bombing your meeting
<juliank> vorlon: I guess we can, but need to temporarily remove the other shim-signed from proposed pocket
<vorlon> yes
<vorlon> juliank: you have all the access to people who can do that :)
<rbalint> apw, facts, comments, patches are welcome :-)
<juliank> vorlon: i put it at the top of the secure boot lane
<vorlon> juliank: ta
<bdmurray> alright, anything else bug wise?
<juliank> ~hmm
<juliank> I thought I had something 2 hours ago, but don't remember, sorry
 * sil2100 loves moving around binary packages semi-randomly
<xnox> apw:  we love meeting guests!
<xnox> apw:  especially seb128 and Laney
<juliank> Oh
<juliank> Not on launchpad, but https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=817023 in os-prober should probably be fixed
<ubottu> Debian bug 817023 in os-prober "os-prober doesn't detect EFI partition on MBR" [Normal,Fixed]
<seb128> xnox, :-)
<juliank> os-prober only recognizes ESPs on GPT disks, not MBR
<xnox> quak
<xnox> it should
<xnox> there is no GPT requirmeents for ESP
<juliank> xnox: Yes, but identifier changed from msdos to dos or was typoed
<juliank> ID_PART_ENTRY_SCHEME in udevadm info
<bdmurray> Should we bring up bug 1864293 with Wimpress ?
<juliank> it checks for msdos, but udevadminfo now reports dos
<ubottu> bug 1864293 in ubuntu-mate-meta (Ubuntu) "apt autoremove removes cryptsetup-initramfs which causes boot to drop to initramfs shell on machine with LVM and full disk encryption" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1864293
<juliank> :)
<juliank> bdmurray: yes
<bdmurray> Okay, if that's it for bugs...
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<bdmurray> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> shim is blocked intentionally (but why does the report not show a blocking bug?)
<vorlon> python3-defaults, blocked by kazoo on arm64, who wants this?
<bdmurray> I've failed to really look at kazoo
<rbalint> bdmurray, should we reshuffle it?
<vorlon> bdmurray: have you retried against the release pocket?  if it's a flaky test we should ignore
<vorlon> (I see no retests against baseline)
<bdmurray> Oh, is that what made the test pass on amd64?
<vorlon> bdmurray: no
<vorlon> but if it's flaky we should ignore it instead of just retrying forever
<vorlon> I don't want to confirm that a retest against release pocket /passes/, I want to confirm that it /fails/
<vorlon> sphinx has its autopkgtest regressions cleared, now just blocked by beta freeze
<vorlon> gnutls28 has build failures, I think doko has this in progress?
<vorlon> (per the ftbfs bug earlier)
<vorlon> uchardet, blocked by beta freeze
<doko> yes, the sync is in the unapproved queue
<vorlon> pinentry, autopkgtest regressions; did someone take this last week?
<bdmurray> I did but didn't get to it :-(
<vorlon> bdmurray: taking it again, or do you want to hand it off?
<bdmurray> I think handing it off is best
<waveform> I'll take it if bdmurray wants?
<vorlon> waveform: it's yours
<vorlon> dpkg, python-apt, blocked by beta freeze
<vorlon> debhelper has a bunch of regressions on armhf that look like they're all dkms-related
<vorlon> so somebody could probably deal with those as a batch
<vorlon> who wants?
<rbalint> i take it
<vorlon> rbalint: thanks
<vorlon> python-werkzeug: blocked because python-flask-oldsessions still depends on the python2 package, someone needs to work out whether that's due for removal
<rbalint> also triggered kazoo
<vorlon> juliank: ^^ can you take python-werkzeug?
<vorlon> libtimedate-perl, blocked by beta freeze
<vorlon> and I'll take python-docutils vs sphinx
<vorlon> juliank: can you confirm you're ok to take python-werkzeug?
<juliank> i guess
<vorlon> thanks
<vorlon> and that's the list
<bdmurray> thanks vorlon
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> in case you hadn't heard its Beta week
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  2 15:49:33 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-04-02-15.01.moin.txt
<doko> wait
<rbalint> o/
<luna_> hello, think i am back at a more correct time now, sorry for the confusion
<luna_> sent the people email thanks hellsworth
